Bandelier National Monument…Not…

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Over the past week I have received more than a dozen queries about Bandelier National Monument’s credibility as a location for Forrest’s chest. The people who question it recognize its position on the map in relation to Santa Fe and want to know why folks would bother looking in a place in that direction.

I cannot speak to why people do things but I can speak about why I have never considered Bandelier a likely spot.

Bandelier National Monument, in north central New Mexico, is not a place, in my opinion, where any serious searcher should consider looking. The reason I say that is because of clues Forrest has given and a basic understanding of general navigational theory and Forrest’s background.

Forrest has said that the chest is located “in the mountains north of Santa Fe”. He has recently added two qualifiers to that statement:

  1. It’s in the Rocky Mountains
  2. It’s not directly north but in a northerly direction from Santa Fe.

There is a post on this blog that talks about the definition of the area considered to be in the Rocky Mountains and Bandelier National Monument certainly seems to qualify as within the Rocky Mountain Range with its position at the southern end of the Jemez Range of mountains which the US Geological Survey classifies as the southern extent of the Rocky Mountains. So criteria to qualify under statement number 1 appear to be met.

It’s criteria to meet statement number two that seems lacking. Let me explain.

We all know that some searchers have drawn a 360 degree line north from Santa Fe and used that as the marker for “north of Santa Fe”. It must fall on this line they have argued. After hearing that argument for the umteenth time Forrest finally made a clarifying statement. “It’s not directly north but in a northerly direction from Santa Fe.”, he proclaimed. In this statement rests the crux of my argument.

To begin, we need to have an idea of what “northerly” means. Look at the compass rose below.

 compass

As you know the cardinal points of a compass are North, East, South and West. Between NW and NE is considered Northerly. Between NW and SW is considered Westerly…and so on. Forrest would be very familier with this concept as an aviator. So given this basic principle lets examine the positions of Santa Fe and Bandelier National Monument on a map.

sfmap

This is a map of a north central area of New Mexico that includes both Bandelier and Santa Fe. You can click on the map to make it larger on your screen. Running between Santa Fe and Bandelier is a blue line. This line represents latitude 35˚45.268. This is the approximate northern latitude of the city limit of Santa Fe. I used the City’s Zoning Map as a reference to find the northern city limit. If we take that line all the way across to Bandelier you can see that about one third of Bandelier does not fall north of the northern Santa Fe city limit. However, Forrest said that we must consider the area in the Rocky Mountains in a NORTHERLY direction from Santa Fe.

Remember that NORTHERLY includes all the area on the compass from NW to NE. The pink area on the map shows that area. It is fan shaped and gets wider the further north you travel. Bandelier is clearly Westerly of Santa Fe, it is not Northerly of Santa Fe. If Bandelier was even close to being Northerly from Santa Fe I would consider it…but it is not.

Finally, there is another reason not to consider Bandelier. That is because Forrest does not mention it in any of the stories in his book, not even in the stories on his blog and not in any interview that I have listened to. Clearly, Bandelier is not a special place to him, and remember that Forrest has said he hid the chest in a place that is “special” to him.

So for me, Bandelier and other areas in a westerly, easterly or southerly direction cannot  possibly be the location of the chest.

dal…

734 thoughts on “Bandelier National Monument…Not…

  1. with all due respect dal, this is only your thoughts on the matter as you see it, it is not a fact stated by Forrest Fenn. a couple of questions, when Forrest Fenn said Santa Fe, did he mean the Capitol Building or the city limits, which of course then we would need to know what part ot that is the starting point and last of course, was he talking about the city or the river? plus one more error i would consider on YOUR THOUGHTS of the subject, would be Northerly, on your compass everything between NW to NE is Northerly, but in fact everything 1 degree North of West or East heading by plane no matter how far you go, will indeed put you farther North then where you started, so to my point, like Forrest Fenn said, everything is just a GUESS till Forrest Fenn makes it a Fact.

    • Jefferson: He never made any pretense about it being anything other than HIS thoughts.

      Sounds as though you like Bandelier. Hells bells! Nothing to keep you from chasing it all the way from the eastern end as far up-canyon as you want. I’m guessing you’d spend the rest of your life remembering doing it, glad you did, even if you didn’t find the box. Which the odds suggest you wouldn’t.

      One degre north of west, calling it north? Come on now. The boxe might be in Bandera, but if it is, it ain’t because a pilot called 271 degrees on a compass, northerly.

      This is Dal’s blog. He owns it. And he’s not under any obligation to split hairs to avoid keeping other people from enjoying Bandera, if they want to.

      • Agreed. As far as any pilot _who is speaking in pilot jargon_ would be concerned, BNM is westbound from Santa Fe. I’ve been a pilot since my dad put me on his lap at age two over 40 years ago. This, of course, means nothing if a pilot is instead speaking as a trickster and treasure hider.

    • I feel you about north, but I do not agree about city limits. He said north of Santa Fe. Santa Fe… ALL OF SANTA FE includes santa fe.

      One thing that has me puzzled and Ive mentioned this before, Forrest doesnt correct reporters interviewing him when they miss quote him. Forrest also has said in the same reports that he didnt say things that he did say in earlier comments in the same interview. I did think for a bit that he was letting out hints through them not him until I noticed his inconsistency.

      Support:
      Check out the radio interviews posted here (chicago?) and when the Today Show interviewer host (feb 28?) clearly stated he hid it somewhere in the mountains of new mexico.

      Please review these and correct me if It wrong FORREST. Otherwise this becomes a snipe hunt.

      • That’s probably my biggest issue with misinformation is that some people might not even realize it can be in other states and they will feel upset if it’s found where they didn’t even understand it could be. I think on Dals blog he clarifies it, but there have to be a million people who only see it on tv and don’t go online to read the blogs.

    • Forrest has stated the treasure is north of Santa Fe, not northerly. he has also stated that north includes anywhere north of 270 degrees and 090 degrees. So this horizontal line should be drawn 8.5 miles north of the santa fe city line.

    • I start my first hunt tomorrow. Facebook me at Chi Bur or roleram@hotmail.com of anyone wants to chat. I would say that with Fenns love of,Native American history and artifacts that Bandelier would be like a holy trail its just a huge Native American site to think it would not be special to Fenn is off.

      • Chisum Burton,

        Good Luck at Bandelier. I went there a few weeks ago, the weather was beautiful, and the park is awesome. (Also just a hop, skip, and a jump from my home).

        However, I didn’t do any searching for the TC. I could find nothing in the POEM that matched with that search area. Hopefully, you have found a WWH, or “home of Brown”, but I couldn’t find it [in the poem].

        Perhaps YOU have found something in the POEM … I hope.

        Best of Luck

        –Fennatical

  2. I agree you Dal. I had to abandon a spot finally because it was too far easterly and not enough northerly. I loved that spot. That was THE spot….well, it’s warm waters were iffy, it’s canyon down was nothing special, and it might have been cold. But, oh what a Brown it had. 🙂 Too bad it wasn’t in the right place.

    Lenny

    • um, its westerly lenny… west of santa fe. guess we arent going to have to worry about running into you.. lol jk!

  3. I found that interesting and Bob I’m glad it was spelled out because I had no idea there were degrees of northerly! To me it meant north. I sure do learn something new everyday! Thanks!!!

    • Jen, not to piss you off but degrees north(and south) is LATITUDINAL lines and coordinates above and below equator starting at 0. so yes, there are northerly degrees. 🙂

  4. He surely missed a good bet by not placing it over there, though. Gotta admit. That upper end of Frijole Canyon approached from the Caldera Grande would have been fun as hell giving hints about.

    • Dazed: Yeah. And having people climbing up and down Obsidian Ridge would have been salubrious for their health, something to get their feet back down to reality after pausing on the highway to gaze across the caldera while they tried to make sense of their maps of how to get in there.

    • El Zurito: If a person wanted to buy a peck of trouble for himself one of the ways he could do it would to pick something up inside the boundaries of that park, stuff it into his backpack, and start the hike out of there.

      • Would they know though if you were off the trail? FF obviously took it in wherever without getting seen….. I’d be very likely to doubt its in a national park though because he wants it publicized I think when it’s found and a person would probably not be very vocal about taking something off national park property. Just my 2 cents.

  5. Ummmmm……not to be the eagle scout of the group but north would be anything above the longitude line of “Santa Fe” (whether its Forrests’ shop, house, city limits, capitol, etc). So even if you walked 60 miles due west, then took one step north of 35°45.268N…….you would be north of Santa Fe. Granted you would want to be in the rockies naturally, but you would still be north of SF. And by looking at the map above, and I’m no cartographer, but it seems to me that 2/3 of BNM is north of SF. Now is it “in the rockies”…..meh, thats up to you to decide.

    • Did Fenn ever say it was north of the CITY of Santa Fe? He was a pilot for many years, and he says “Santa Fe” he could mean the Santa Fe airport.

      • I agree with you Nick. I have never seen or heard Forrest say anything confirming he is referencing the city of Santa Fe New Mexico. That leaves all things Santa Fe open to my interpretation.

        • Forrest has specifically said “Santa Fe, New Mexico” in a clarifying statement. I believe it’s on one of my posts…probably one of the email posts or the Rumors post or the Tips post. For the first couple of years he dodged that question. But more recently he has told many people that he is referring to Santa Fe, New Mexico. For clarification you should email him that question and post his answer on this blog…

    • I be also Eagle Scout 😀 with Honorary Order of the Arrow, I concur. Cartography though is Passe and a lost art, GIS geographical information system programmers now make the maps with satellites. even surveyors use gps’s now. I just need to hack a few of them to increase my little piece… 😛

  6. On the other hand, I have no problem believing he might be calling the area south from Hovenweep to the vicinity of Bluff and Blanding, Utah, north, or northerly. Without looking at a compass rose.

  7. OK Dal here is a dissent on your opinion. I probably shouldn’t do this but I feel like I owe you one since Im a fellow Washingtonian and enjoy your blog.

    The North thing is a non issue.. Its like pregnant no such thing as a little pregnant. There are lots of ways to interpret the poem and undoubtably some of them will lead you to Bandelier Ill just leave it at that. After reading all about Mr Fenn Ive come to the conclusion that he is making a final statement of sorts with a last grand chase and Bandelier as would fit perfectly Here is Why…

    Forrest has had issues with the Park service his entire life. It started with the park service at Yellowstone when they refused lake access to him and his friend but aloud the Senators. To me that a seminal moment in his life and would color the rest of his days. Couple that with his total OCD about picking up arrow heads and his chosen profession and you have the makings of a life long feud.

    The history of Bandelier is also interesting Did you know it was only created so a fraudulent PHD would have sole access to excavate and the “pot hunters” of the day would no longer have use.. The man that pushed the Antiquities act in 1906 did it to screw his competitors out of access. His PHD was even earned at he equivalent of a modern Diploma mill. Forrest knows all about this as well as the current goons at the American archeology assoc. that labeled him a Grave robber….

    The final straw is the search warrant they served on him.. The Government wastes all of the intellectual property they gather at ruins. They box it and let it rot.. they don’t report what they have done and to top it off they put it all in 500 page report NO one reads. All Mr.Fenn does is celebrate whats beautiful and they treat him like a criminal.

    Now before you get all giddy remember the Park service is warming up a cell a Guantanamo for the first Fenn treasure hunter they catch in the park and they are serious hard time and huge fines will happen… Better bring track shoes IMO because they are on RED alert after last week.

    Who knows if it’s really there but I do think its possible as well as 500 other places…LOL

    • El Zurito: Strong logic that recognizes precisely a type of ‘feud’ between official/academia and individuals. I carry a good bit of it around, myself, and can identify with it completely.

      On the other hand, if Forrest wanted to stick it into officialdom [or any of the other social/governmental entities I suspect he holds in similar regard] I’d guess Bandelier is just a spot on a target-rich environment.

      The flashlight skeet shoot about flashlight, no flashlight, some flashlight, and why has been tossed out and shot down a dozen ways, but I withhold the suspicion a person might want to carry that box out of whatever place it’s in found, in darkness.

      Which wouldn’t do the job at Bandelier, but probably would at some other locations that come to mind.

  8. dal, Thank you so much for taking the time to provide your thoughts on the matter. I actually grew up (15+ yrs) not 10 miles from Bandelier and the Jemez etc. Lots of treasures but not this one.

    I would like your thoughts on the following. Am I the only one who is bothered by this poem’s construct? I keep asking but no one seems as bothered as I am. Specifically, if you follow each stanza’s clues the seeker ends up with the chest well before the end of the poem. If the clues are sequential this would make the last two stanza’s meaningless. Just take the chest and go home, who cares about the stinkin title or being in the wood. I think Forrest has meaninful clues hidden in the last two stanza’s as well…which then makes you wonder what the chest refers to….making my head hurt!

    • I think the last line in the poem may be very important. I’m not sure what the laws are about “finding” things in a NP are, but the words of “I give you title to the gold” may alleviate a problem of ownership. I mean if I leave my backpack in a NP with a note inside of it that says that whoever happens to find it is now the rightful owner, And it was not BURIED in the ground, how can the NPS stop you from taking it? These are just my thoughts on what FF may have thought about when he wrote the poem.

    • @ Windsurfer: I agree with you about the construction of the poem. From reading the book, it’s clear to me that Forrest is very economical in his writing, so I would be surprised if the poem were then so full of fluff.

      I have been experimenting with rearranging the poem a bit to make it end with “go in peace,” but have not had any revelations. Interestingly, one iteration of my rearrangement (involving creating a 2nd column by moving the last two stanzas) resulted in the shape of an “F” if you back away and look at the poem from several feet away (the blaze?), but no meaningful revelations came out of this for me…but if this helps someone else solve the puzzle, please do toss me a coin after you collect the prize. 🙂

  9. Dal….

    Could you do me a “small” favor? That pink area you placed on the map, could you perhaps do the same thing but expand the map out to the Canadian border? I know, why not do the work myself? Yours was so pretty with the pink and all and since you already have most of it done, why not just take it one step further? Please………

    • As Mr. Fenn has stated that the treasure is hidden somewhere in the Rocky Mountains (north of Santa Fe) I don’t think an enlarged pink area would be beneficial to the hunt. A map showing the entire RM range would be better.
      jd

  10. Windsurfer,
    I think i share some of your thoughts on the actual poem itself. By taking these clues at face value the possibilities seem too endless. By just throwing in the word “canyon” it increases the possible places exponentially. Of course, this is on purpose but how do we know “canyon” is even a clue and not a word for affect? I haven’t bought into the whole counting syllables, etc. thing but there is something to the writing that will “unlock” the clues, just a matter of figuring out what it is. Yes there are words with double meanings, and such. Someone mentioned it in a prior post, but what is “it”?? And the number 9 is hard to overlook. I am still an overthinker though, i like the puzzle, might be going in totally the wrong direction though.

    • The way I look at the poem is that there are some “clues” that are very clear directions on how to find the chest. “Begin, take it, put in….” (I agree Hank, I am thinking the “it” is one thing) The rest of the poem is more descriptive about those places. “hint of riches, not for the meek, brave, in the wood…” I think those lines are clues about the places you need to be to find the chest. I believe you find the blaze if you have been “wise enough”, “brave and in the wood”, and you will have seen the “heavy loads and water high”. I don’t think the final spot is below the home of Brown. The first stanza gives us more clues about the spot it is hidden in. “gone in alone”, “secret”, “hint of riches new and old”. I don’t think the order about the descriptive parts matter, just make sure you follow the directions in order. I’ve seen many people change the order, but I don’t think that’s what Forest intended. It is certainly complicated enough the way it is written now. Not sure if anyone else thinks this way, but just throwing more ideas out there.

      • “Begin it …” and “take it …”
        My interpretation of these is begin the chase … and take the chase …, respectively.

        “As I have gone alone in there”
        I would say of course he went in there alone; otherwise someone else would know where the chest was. Also could imply that you don’t need help going in there.

        “From there it’s no place for the meek,”
        I interpret this as once you put in, you need to be healthy enough to do some hiking.

        “Your effort will be worth the cold.”
        I interpret this as those who go outdoors searching for the chest will be cold (not find the chest); all but maybe one time out exploring. i.e., “cold” being similar to children saying “you’re getting hot”, “you’re getting cold”, “you’re getting warm” when playing a search game. But, the experiences gained from your excursions will be worth your efforts.

        My last interpretation for those interested:

        “If you are brave…”
        I interpret this as it meaning: if you have been brave enough to get outdoors and search …

        Keep in mind that there are interpretations that are equally plausible, more plausible, and less plausible. You must decide which ones you like best, go with them, and hope you are right.

      • DollarBill + Oakley Girl
        “hint of riches new and old”
        Do you think this is the chest or a place the chest is?
        It could be both but I also thought of it as the chest
        One thought I had earlier that term meant like his gallery he used to own
        Maybe we need a spearate thread for each of the clues and keep it only to that subject
        Hey Dal how about a new tread as above or Where it wasn’t and each of us has to put in a place we have been but certaintly now kmow it was’nt, is’nt there?
        We would not have to give a reason why we thought but just a place like did for Bandeliar?

      • Okay, I will give you one more opinion, but remember that opinions are like xxxxxxxs, everyone has one.

        “And hint of riches new and old.”

        FF put a little bit (hint) of his riches in the chest. Some items are new in age and some items are old in age.

      • Tim
        My first thought about riches new and old was that he put his “new” treasure in a mine where “old” treasure once was. So, “gone in there alone” meant that he went in the cave or mine alone with his secret chest. After your question I have new thoughts…
        Maybe he is talking about when he was actually putting the treasure together.
        “As I have gone in there alone, and with my treasures bold”= he went into his gallery/office where he keeps his private treasures, alone in thought and surrounded by what he calls his treasures bold. Maybe that’s where he came up with the idea. (?)
        “I can keep my secret where, and hint of riches new and old”= he then decided on where to hide his secret, and created a new treasure out of the old treasures he has. And wrote the “hint” (poem) about the new treasure.
        That would make sense as to why this stanza is first. It is about his thoughts about starting the whole hunt and clues.
        I guess either way this is a “new” treasure and hunt created with the “old” treasures that he has collected.
        So many possibilities!!!

        • I like your interpretation of the first stanza which makes a lot of sense to me. I never thought the phrase “in there” referred to a cave. Now, to work of the rest of it! 🙂

          • Oakleygirl + Dollarbill
            Thanks for the response to “And hint of riches new and old.”
            I too believe it is the chest so if we could keep this up and keep whitteling the clues down I think we can narrow down the possibilites
            Next stanza interpretation

            “Begin it where warm waters halt”
            To me there is only one thing that really defines that and to me it is a dam becuse it does two things, it halts water and it stops warm water cause the water from a dam is released at the bottom where is is cold
            A hotspring does not do two things like a dam does, it is just hot and never turns water cold cause the hot springs continually is feed from hot water even if some are warm like Stephenie said to put that as a clue is pointless cause an interpretation of of a hot springs being warm is not always the case and Forrest I think would not use something not definite.
            Also dams also are usually created in a canyon since to create it you just build a barrier in the narrow part of the canyon, hotsprings can occur without a canyon
            For dams there are unique things about each one and if you research each one, only one really to me defines it as the one that he is referring to cause it has a third property and then a subtle hint of a fourth property.
            Everything else makes no sense or does not have more than one definition unless someone can tell me what else has more than one meaning where warm waters halt
            Again I say it is the damn answer cause it is a fifth property and witty

      • Tim
        Not that I am much help, but here goes…
        “were warm waters halt” : I am favoring the dam as well for same reasoning you have. I’ve read about the ones in NM that are North of Santa Fe and not sure which to favor, unless I make more connections about the next few lines.
        I have basically ruled out hot springs,too. I think the key word being they are “hot” and he chose to use the word “warm” in the poem. When I looked up the definition of warm water, it didn’t help much. It’s basically around body temp. I couldn’t get an altitude at which water is considered cold.
        New thoughts about warm waters… I was wondering if it could be a dessert. The rain is usually warm, and it dries up so fast or hardly rains at all. There are some sand dunes in CO that are north of Santa Fe, where the waters disappear under the sand, or dry up in the summer. (drying up is a way to halt water)
        Next thoughts are about a river that has dried up, or dry up certain times of the year. I was looking at Dry Cimmaron and that area.
        I’ve seen posts somewhere about it having to do with a confluence,too. (I had to look that up)
        Not sure if I am thinking it has to do with colors, (warm colors, red) or the actual name of the river/lake/dam, having the word warm in it. But it is still an option.
        I guess narrowing down the exact dam/river/etc… depends on if you can relate the next few lines of the poem to that starting point.
        Either way, it’s a great riddle from Forest! I keep wondering how can we over think such a simple phrase? 🙂

        • Oakleygirl
          Thanks for the resopnse
          So yes it could be where a river drys up or goes under ground, so from there do you take a canyon down, not likely nor does any deserts I know of have mountains that are north of Santa Fe
          My goal here is not likely to pinpoint the exact location but to narrow the locations down, if more people think alike the more likely it is the answer to the clue, maybe not but I do not know of any other better way to narrow it down and any answer could be the correct one but are we breaking this down, what I am seeing is clues getting confused by other clues so I think breaking it down is the most logical. So the answer does have to support the next clue but where warm waters halt logically

      • Thought about the dam thing, but just can’t get past that fact that Forrest’s “special place” would be anywhere near a dam. I understand they form a canyon but just can’t buy into it. That and lake water does not fit my definition of warm either, too many factors to fluctuate. That being said, I still don’t know where they halt.

        • Hank
          Of course a dam would not be the special place where the chest is, it is just the starting point to the chest, you are confusing two different things and clues. You have to start somewhere and if the majority say it is a dam that more likely to be the start do you not think so, If I am color blind and tell you that a color is brown but the majority say it is red what color is it most likely to be. So where or what do you you think where warm waters halt? and then would support take it in the canyon down?

      • “Begin it where warm waters halt”

        I believe this to be Santa Fe, New Mexico for two reasons.

        1) I believe that is where FF would have started from; i.e., where he lives.

        2) FF is a true & blue trout fisherman. The New Mexico Fishing Regulations define warm waters (page 7) as those waters that are not trout waters. The regs contain a map (page 4) depicting trout waters’ areas and Santa Fe is located right next to designated trout waters’ areas where warm waters’ areas stop. Trout thrive better in cool waters.

        If the map is FF’s definition for warm waters, then there could be lots and lots of locations where warm waters halt. However, I try my best not to complicate my interpretation of his poem’s clues.

        • DollarBill
          Yes Forrest lives in Santa Fe but is he water of some sort, can he walk on water, i know if he is still alive he is warm but I see no reasoning why Santa Fe is the start?
          How about this
          I believe the start where warm waters halt is the Eagle Nest dam in Eagle Nest, why

          1: A dam stops or halt waters
          2: A dam makes warm water cold cause water is released from the bottom which was warm at the surface but cold at the bottom
          3: Begin it in Eagles Nest cause Eagles begin in a nest
          4: Eagle Nest is in the Moreno Valley, what does Moreno have to do with brown I wonder?
          5: Eagle Nest is between NM highest 2 peaks that is Baldy and Wheeler, Wheeler where have I heard that referenced?
          6: The town of Eagle Nest used to be named Therma, therm is that some kind of temperature?
          7: Eagle Nest is the Eastern Gateway to the Enchanted circle, gateway what is a gateway?
          8: The waters that feed the Eagle Nest dam is not from a river, it is mainly from rain or melted snow runoff, rain is considered to be warm compared to other temps of water.
          9. It is in a canyon to take down and I mean way down, like no other canyon in NM.
          10. Near some brown like bear, fish and color.
          Anybody have any more but to me that smacks me right in the kisser

          Give me a start to beat that and then give me 10 supporting facts why I should start in Santa Fe or another good beginning please and I will go there like I have at Eagle Nest.

      • @oakleygirl: Just to make your mind whirl a little more and just to let you know that in New Mexico, if you go into a cave on federal lands, you are required to wear a helmet and have three sources of light. I am pretty sure FF is aware of this. See BLM New Mexico Supplemental Rules at the following link.

        http://www.blm.gov/nm/st/en/prog/law_enforcement/rules_and_regulations/nm_supplemental_rules.html

        PS, I too like your recent interpretations of the poem’s beginning.

      • Hank-
        I understand your point. In fact that is the chief criteria I use when I get close to where I think the chest might be. I ask myself, “Would Forrest consider this a special place. Would I want this place to be the last view I had before I went to sleep for the last time.”

        But I think dollarbill’s point is also valid. The place you start and the place you end up could be a great distance away.
        I am not advocating that a dam IS the starting place but let me explain why a certain kind of dam is a very logical starting place.

        For me the lake/reservoir behind the dam must contain warm water. Again, to me, warm water is water that will not support a trout fishery. Most trout prefer cooler water than perch or carp or catfish. Next I look for a relatively deep lake with a relatively high dam. This is important because in a lake the cooler water is at the bottom. If you’ve ever taken a swim in a lake you know that when you dive down a few feet the water gets downright cold. So at the dam the warm water is at the top and the cold water is at the bottom. The dam outlet is generally low. I am not talking about a spillway dam where the water rolls over the top. I mean a high dam where there is a substantial difference between the surface of the lake and the depth of the dam’s intake/outlet. In this situation the dam is letting out very cold water.

        A good example is the dam on Eagle Nest Lake in the Moreno Valley near Angel Fire in New Mexico. The dam is 140ft high. The surface of the lake fluctuates throughout the year but the outlet from the dam is significantly lower than the surface. The water that comes out of that dam is COLD. The stream below that dam (The Cimarron River) is a fabulous trout fishery, even though the lake above cannot support a trout fishery.

        So…when you find the correct lake/dam combination you can get a significant change in water temperature at the dam. Warm at the surface of the lake and cold in the stream below the dam with the warm water halting at the dam.

      • @dollarbill Thank you for the advice, however, I am no where near booking a trip out there to hunt yet! 🙂
        I’m glad to see discussions about the different interpretations! I tend to agree that the treasure is close to Forest, in NM area. However, I am keeping an open mind if the evidence seems more convincing to focus elsewhere.
        As for the fishing connection… I’m not sure that would be common knowledge with just the poem. (I am biased because I really hate fish!!! )
        Thanks guys for brain storming!

        • OakelyGirl
          Yes I am being sarcsitic I can’t give everything away can I
          But I am not arrogant and I am not telling anyone that is where it is, I’ve looked there but did not find
          but I need help and I am picking on you cause I believe we think alike and I want people to shoot me down so I am asking for help and I am no expert so if I put something out there or suggestions say thats bull$hit please.

      • Dal,
        Thanks, certainly a plausible explanation, I just have to remember to not discount anything at this point. You also bring up a good point that I have been struggling with, the distance piece. How far down the canyon? Flying, driving, floating? Just not walking. One step at a time right? Going back to the beginning…again.

      • @Tim: Please recognize that I am just providing ideas that might be different from the norm and that a person can ponder on while considering their own ideas. What you do with my interpretations is solely up to you, but you should be very careful before following someone else’s beliefs, they could be very wrong or purposefully misleading. Dal just said that he agrees with the dam theory and I believe that Dal really believes in the dam theory. I really want to say damn theory.

        See if this argument makes any sense. I just can’t agree with the dam theory because: to me, starting at a dam would be starting at a secondary beginning point in your chase, a tertiary beginning point, or one of many other beginning points, all not being a true common beginning point for FF and all chasers to begin from. FF flies a plane from Santa Fe to Canada, drives a car to a dam, and then begins his journey? So much more thrill embellishment would be left out of his poem. I don’t think so. FF awakes in Santa Fe and must begin all of his trips from there. FF even clued that the chest was north of Santa Fe implying any place north beginning at Santa Fe. Now the chase might begin in Santa Fe and then it goes to a dam from where it goes down in a canyon. You end up at the same spot but your chase started at the true beginning point. The true beginning point only needs to: 1) meet the warm waters criteria, which Santa Fe does according to NM Fishing Regs; and, 2) meet the definition of “begin it”, which Santa Fe does.

        Definition of “begin”: to do the first part of an action: go into the first part of a process: start: to come into existence: arise: to have a starting point.

        Just some side info, I grew up in El Paso Texas where the Franklin Mountains end and the Rio Grande finds a way to flow west to the Gulf. We were taught in school that the Franklin Mountains were the southernmost reach of the Rocky Mountains. Were they wrong then or are they wrong now? I guess what only matters is what FF believes.

      • from my translation searches moreno is a surname, and morena means brunette. I realize they are forms of the same word, but technically not. So is the Moreno valley named after someone or was it named descriptively by its color?

        • Molly B
          Look some more because Brown is the English version of this surname Moreno
          I believe the valley was named after the Indians (are they brown?) who hunted there but I need to do more research on that though.to see whu it is called Moreno.
          Eagle Nest being in the Moreno valley could be a subtle hint and not the leading one but it sure is strange that all those things match Eagle Nest, and remember it is only the begining so you may have to go 92 miles from there to the next clue.

      • Ok, more to ponder or discredit… If we believe we are starting at a dam, and following a canyon down, how do we decide what is too far to walk? Until we come upon the “home of Brown”? I believe driving is involved to “take it in the canyon down”, (since Forest never said we would need a boat). The “it” you are taking could be following a river or trail. Once you find out what the home of Brown is, you stop (park) and physically “put in” yourself from that point. I have a hard time thinking it is about fish, because there are so many places the Brown Trout seem to be, how would you decide the right “home”? If it is something from history, then the chances are it is a little more obvious. However, if it is intended to last for 100+ years, then maybe the home of Brown is more significant in nature that has stood the test of time. (?) I have a gut feeling you will know or figure out what “home of Brown” is when you are on the right path. Not sure we can decipher all parts of the clues by sitting in front of our computers.

  11. Thanks Hank and Oakleygirl. Glad I am not the only one who is getting a brain cramp and I appreciate you sharing your thought process. I am a dull and boring engineer though with a personality of a dead fish, so that explains a lot . I have found multiple blazes of the same variety in my search however. Almost as though they are trail markers of sorts but it all could be way off track as well and probably is.

    • Windsurfer
      I have an art degree and I am a nerd, so my brain never stops thinking about the words in this poem! It is completely up to you how you want to interpret the poem. I for one am not making any of the fishing (fly fishing) connections to it at this point. (I hate fish, and would rather run into a grizzly bear) No offense to any of the fishing fans or those making those references!!! I am trying to keep an open mind though. If everyone thought alike and had the same ideas then we’d all end up at the same spot with or without the treasure! 🙂
      The fact that I won’t fish just means one less person fighting for the perfect fishing spot or looking there for the chest! 🙂

      • oakleygirl,

        Art degree as well, and a crazy brain that never stops too. Heck I am doubting it is even by a river at this point.

      • oakleygirl

        Psychology major, philosophy and math minors so I guess that makes me a , philosophical, nerdish psychologist. 😀 I’m having a hard time with the fishing references too so that probably means a fisher-person will find Forrest’s treasure. I must say I’m learning a lot about it though plus a lot more about geography, history, folk art, and a whole bunch of other stuff – it’s been interesting and fun, although the search does end up taking a LOT of time reading and studying maps! LOL

      • Hank and CJ
        Glad I’m not the only one with a brain that never stops. The more I read what someone else thinks, the more ideas start churning. I’m in MA, so even if I can narrow down the possibilities, it’ll be awhile before I can actually search. At this point the thrill is more in figuring out the poem for me. I have learned a lot about that area and want to visit even if I don’t have a clue where to search.

  12. one of millions of ways to start… As I have gone alone in there… his vault. And with my treasures bold,… standing in his vault looking around. I can keep my secret where,… still looking around in his vault deciding what to put it in,… ah this chest will do. And hint of riches new and old…. still in his vault, now he is deciding what to put in the chest from his collection of new and old riches. well maybe, that could be one way??? enjoy 🙂

    • Jefferson: I like your thoughts about the start of the poem. I guess one could think that the first four lines being some sort of a key to the poem.

    • Kym: Might be that as easily as the hundred-or-so other places discovered to be where warm waters halt.

      The key to it all, the whole poem, almost certainly reaches back to Forrest’s love of the T.S. Eliot work, Sweeney Agonistes:

      Sweeney: I’ll carry you off
      To a cannibal isle.
      Doris: You’ll be the cannibal!
      Sweeney: You’ll be the missionary!
      You’ll be my little seven stone missionary!
      I’ll gobble you up. I’ll be cannibal.
      Doris: You’ll carry me off? To a cannibal isle?
      Sweeney: I’ll be the cannibal.
      Doris: I’ll be the missionary,
      I’ll convert you!
      Sweeney: I’ll convert you!
      Into a stew.
      A nice little, white little, missionary stew.
      Doris: You wouldn’t eat me!
      Sweeney: Yes, I’d eat you!
      In a nice little, white little, soft little, tender little,
      Juicy little, right little, missionary stew.
      You see this egg
      You see this egg
      Well, that’s life on a crocodile isle.
      There’s no telephones
      There’s no gramophones
      There no motor cars
      No two seaters, no six seaters,
      No Citroen, no Rolls Royce.
      Nothing to eat but the fruit as it grows.
      Nothing to see but the palmtrees one way
      And the sea the other way
      Nothing to hear but the sound of the surf.
      Nothing at all but three things
      Doris: What things?
      Sweeney: Birth, and copulation and death.
      That’s all, that’s all, that’s all, that’s all,
      Birth, and copulation, and death.
      Doris: I’d be bored.
      Sweeney: You’d be bored.
      Birth, and copulation and death.
      Doris: I’d be bored.
      Sweeney: You’d be bored.
      Birth, and copulation and death.
      That’s all the facts when you come to brass tacks:
      Birth, and copulation, and death.
      I’ve been born, and once is enough,
      You don’t remember, but I remember,
      Once is enough.

      Under the bamboo
      Bamboo bamboo
      Under the bamboo tree
      Two live as one
      One live as two
      Under the bam
      Under the boo
      Under the bamboo tree.

      Where the breadfruit fall
      And the penguin call
      And the sound is the sound of the sea
      Under the bam
      Under the boo
      Under the bamboo tree

      Where the Gaugain maids
      In the banyan shades
      Wear palmleaf drapery
      Under the bam
      Under the boo
      Under the bamboo tree.

      Tell me in what part of the wood
      Do you want to flirt with me?
      Under the breadfruit, banyan, palmleaf
      Or under the bamboo tree?
      Any old tree will do for me
      Any old wood is just as good
      Any old isle is just my style
      Any fresh egg
      Any fresh egg
      And the sound of the coral sea.

      Doris: I don’t like eggs; I never liked eggs;
      And I don’t like life on your crocodile isle.

      When you’re alone in the middle of the night and you wake
      in a sweat and a hell of a fright
      When you’re alone in the middle of the bed and you wake
      like someone hit you on the head
      You’ve had a cream of a nightmare dream and you’ve got the
      hoo-ha’s coming to you.
      Hoo hoo hoo
      You dreamt you waked up at seven o’clock and it’s foggy an
      it’s damp and it’s dawn and it’s dark
      And you wait for a knock and the turning of a lock for you
      know the hangman’s waiting for you.
      And perhaps you’re alive
      And perhaps you’re dead
      Hoo ha ha
      Hoo ha ha
      Hoo
      Hoo
      Hoo
      Knock Knock Knock
      Knock Knock Knock
      Knock
      Knock
      Knock

      At least that’s what I assume from reading and studying Forrest’s poem. I’m near certain the fact it hasn’t been mentioned is part of a conspiracy of silence among the in-crowd.

      • Love it Old Jules. I still think this T.S. Eliot work Forrest has mentioned is somehow in play.

        We shall not cease from our exploration
        And at the end of all our exploring
        Will be to arrive where we started
        And know the place for the first time.

        To me it means one has to go all the way through the poem following the clues and upon solving them will know exactly where to go and be amazed it is where you started but different somehow and know it for the first time. I do not think it is a trial and error excercise of trapsing around through the forest.

        Probably wrong though.

      • ROTFL LOL Jules OMG!! Oh, Stop!! lol Tell me in what part of the wood
        Do you want to flirt with me?~ Get out and swim lol I do suppose it’s Dat Deus Incrementum lol too funny 🙂

  13. “Samson Agonistes” in tribute to the martyred John Brown the abolitionist in his 1860 biography, The Public Life of Capt. John Brown, which celebrated Brown’s impact upon the nation despite dying on the gallows on December 2, 1859, Agonistes, also refers to the materialistic, shallow man. 🙂

  14. Dal, if you want to be technical about it, you should include magnetic deviation…something Mr. Fenn, as an aviator, certainly is aware of. However, I tend to agree with most other posts that any Latitude “above” Santa Fe, regardless of east/west direction, is fair game.

    • I really don’t want to be terribly technical particularly since adding that element would have no effect on the outcome for Bandelier. But feel free to embellish in a comment. I am certain some here would be interested.

    • SMB: It’s a tough problem, magnetic deviation. You might gain something you like on one side and sacrifice the treasure site on the other. And deviation changes, month-to-month, year to year with earth orientation. Heck, it’s so confusing the pointeeheads can’t even tell you what time it was in Hamburg last week.

      But for those who want to get technical about it, I offer the following detail and predictions for 2013:
      arth Orientation Dept. USNO Earth Orientation Dept. USNOser7@maia.usno.navy.mil

      Send email
      Find email Add to contacts
      From: Earth Orientation Dept. USNO (ser7@maia.usno.navy.mil)
      Sent: Thu 3/07/13 12:32 PM
      To:

      ********************************************************************** * * * I E R S B U L L E T I N – A * * * * Rapid Service/Prediction of Earth Orientation * ********************************************************************** 7 March 2013 Vol. XXVI No. 010 ______________________________________________________________________ GENERAL INFORMATION: To receive this information electronically, contact: ser7@maia.usno.navy.mil or use MJD = Julian Date – 2 400 000.5 days UT2-UT1 = 0.022 sin(2*pi*T) – 0.012 cos(2*pi*T) – 0.006 sin(4*pi*T) + 0.007 cos(4*pi*T) where pi = 3.14159265… and T is the date in Besselian years. TT = TAI + 32.184 seconds DUT1= (UT1-UTC) transmitted with time signals = +0.2 seconds beginning 31 January 2013 at 0000 UTC Beginning 1 July 2012: TAI-UTC = 35.000 000 seconds ************************************************************************ Please note that daily and Bulletin A EOP data can be obtained from ** the primary Earth Orientation (EO) servers at: ** http://maia.usno.navy.mil ftp://maia.usno.navy.mil ** and from the backup EO server at: ** http://toshi.nofs.navy.mil ftp://toshi.nofs.navy.mil ************************************************************************________________________________________________________________________ The contributed observations used in the preparation of this Bulletin are available at . The contributed analysis results are based on data from Very Long Baseline Interferometry (VLBI), Satellite Laser Ranging (SLR), the Global Positioning System (GPS) satellites, Lunar Laser Ranging (LLR), and meteorological predictions of variations in Atmospheric Angular Momentum (AAM). ________________________________________________________________________ COMBINED EARTH ORIENTATION PARAMETERS: IERS Rapid Service MJD x error y error UT1-UTC error ” ” ” ” s s 13 3 1 56352 0.03020 .00010 0.33814 .00009 0.207747 0.000012 13 3 2 56353 0.03060 .00010 0.33970 .00009 0.206068 0.000011 13 3 3 56354 0.03089 .00010 0.34129 .00009 0.204537 0.000010 13 3 4 56355 0.03124 .00009 0.34277 .00009 0.203074 0.000006 13 3 5 56356 0.03164 .00010 0.34400 .00009 0.201623 0.000005 13 3 6 56357 0.03218 .00010 0.34497 .00009 0.200123 0.000005 13 3 7 56358 0.03294 .00009 0.34571 .00009 0.198566 0.000055 IERS Final Values MJD x y UT1-UTC ” ” s 13 1 2 56294 0.0733 0.2899 0.27614 13 1 3 56295 0.0714 0.2897 0.27504 13 1 4 56296 0.0701 0.2896 0.27386 13 1 5 56297 0.0690 0.2896 0.27266 13 1 6 56298 0.0682 0.2897 0.27145 13 1 7 56299 0.0672 0.2901 0.27038 13 1 8 56300 0.0663 0.2905 0.26946 13 1 9 56301 0.0653 0.2913 0.26860 13 1 10 56302 0.0644 0.2922 0.26772 13 1 11 56303 0.0632 0.2930 0.26678 13 1 12 56304 0.0620 0.2936 0.26573 13 1 13 56305 0.0606 0.2943 0.26446 13 1 14 56306 0.0593 0.2951 0.26307 13 1 15 56307 0.0583 0.2959 0.26154 13 1 16 56308 0.0570 0.2965 0.26007 13 1 17 56309 0.0554 0.2973 0.25867 13 1 18 56310 0.0539 0.2983 0.25737 13 1 19 56311 0.0530 0.2994 0.25612 13 1 20 56312 0.0517 0.3007 0.25495 13 1 21 56313 0.0503 0.3019 0.25385 13 1 22 56314 0.0494 0.3028 0.25277 13 1 23 56315 0.0487 0.3041 0.25174 13 1 24 56316 0.0478 0.3051 0.25064 13 1 25 56317 0.0471 0.3059 0.24952 13 1 26 56318 0.0464 0.3065 0.24838 13 1 27 56319 0.0456 0.3069 0.24714 13 1 28 56320 0.0449 0.3072 0.24578 13 1 29 56321 0.0440 0.3076 0.24431 13 1 30 56322 0.0431 0.3082 0.24278 13 1 31 56323 0.0428 0.3092 0.24123 13 2 1 56324 0.0424 0.3105 0.23974 _______________________________________________________________________ PREDICTIONS: The following formulas will not reproduce the predictions given below, but may be used to extend the predictions beyond the end of this table. x = 0.1039 – 0.1373 cos A – 0.0098 sin A + 0.0645 cos C + 0.0156 sin C y = 0.3434 – 0.0101 cos A + 0.1163 sin A + 0.0156 cos C – 0.0645 sin C UT1-UTC = 0.1888 – 0.00092 (MJD – 56366) – (UT2-UT1) where A = 2*pi*(MJD-56358)/365.25 and C = 2*pi*(MJD-56358)/435. TAI-UTC(MJD 56359) = 35.0 The accuracy may be estimated from the expressions: S x,y = 0.00068 (MJD-56358)**0.80 S t = 0.00025 (MJD-56358)**0.75 Estimated accuracies are: Predictions 10 d 20 d 30 d 40 d Polar coord’s 0.004 0.007 0.010 0.013 UT1-UTC 0.0014 0.0024 0.0032 0.0040 MJD x(arcsec) y(arcsec) UT1-UTC(sec) 2013 3 8 56359 0.0337 0.3466 0.19694 2013 3 9 56360 0.0346 0.3475 0.19520 2013 3 10 56361 0.0353 0.3485 0.19336 2013 3 11 56362 0.0359 0.3495 0.19146 2013 3 12 56363 0.0365 0.3505 0.18957 2013 3 13 56364 0.0369 0.3516 0.18775 2013 3 14 56365 0.0374 0.3527 0.18605 2013 3 15 56366 0.0378 0.3537 0.18449 2013 3 16 56367 0.0383 0.3548 0.18306 2013 3 17 56368 0.0389 0.3558 0.18174 2013 3 18 56369 0.0394 0.3568 0.18049 2013 3 19 56370 0.0400 0.3579 0.17925 2013 3 20 56371 0.0406 0.3589 0.17798 2013 3 21 56372 0.0413 0.3599 0.17667 2013 3 22 56373 0.0420 0.3610 0.17528 2013 3 23 56374 0.0427 0.3620 0.17378 2013 3 24 56375 0.0434 0.3629 0.17214 2013 3 25 56376 0.0441 0.3639 0.17037 2013 3 26 56377 0.0449 0.3649 0.16849 2013 3 27 56378 0.0456 0.3658 0.16656 2013 3 28 56379 0.0464 0.3668 0.16467 2013 3 29 56380 0.0472 0.3677 0.16289 2013 3 30 56381 0.0480 0.3687 0.16125 2013 3 31 56382 0.0489 0.3696 0.15978 2013 4 1 56383 0.0497 0.3705 0.15841 2013 4 2 56384 0.0506 0.3714 0.15709 2013 4 3 56385 0.0515 0.3723 0.15576 2013 4 4 56386 0.0524 0.3732 0.15435 2013 4 5 56387 0.0534 0.3741 0.15283 2013 4 6 56388 0.0543 0.3749 0.15119 2013 4 7 56389 0.0553 0.3758 0.14943 2013 4 8 56390 0.0563 0.3766 0.14761 2013 4 9 56391 0.0573 0.3774 0.14579 2013 4 10 56392 0.0584 0.3782 0.14403 2013 4 11 56393 0.0594 0.3790 0.14236 2013 4 12 56394 0.0605 0.3798 0.14083 2013 4 13 56395 0.0616 0.3806 0.13943 2013 4 14 56396 0.0627 0.3813 0.13814 2013 4 15 56397 0.0638 0.3820 0.13693 2013 4 16 56398 0.0650 0.3827 0.13576 2013 4 17 56399 0.0661 0.3834 0.13458 2013 4 18 56400 0.0673 0.3841 0.13336 2013 4 19 56401 0.0685 0.3847 0.13205 2013 4 20 56402 0.0697 0.3854 0.13063 2013 4 21 56403 0.0709 0.3860 0.12907 2013 4 22 56404 0.0722 0.3866 0.12739 2013 4 23 56405 0.0735 0.3872 0.12563 2013 4 24 56406 0.0747 0.3877 0.12383 2013 4 25 56407 0.0760 0.3883 0.12207 2013 4 26 56408 0.0773 0.3888 0.12043 2013 4 27 56409 0.0786 0.3893 0.11895 2013 4 28 56410 0.0800 0.3898 0.11761 2013 4 29 56411 0.0813 0.3902 0.11637 2013 4 30 56412 0.0826 0.3907 0.11515 2013 5 1 56413 0.0840 0.3911 0.11390 2013 5 2 56414 0.0854 0.3915 0.11257 2013 5 3 56415 0.0868 0.3919 0.11115 2013 5 4 56416 0.0882 0.3922 0.10969 2013 5 5 56417 0.0896 0.3926 0.10820 2013 5 6 56418 0.0910 0.3929 0.10675 2013 5 7 56419 0.0924 0.3931 0.10538 2013 5 8 56420 0.0938 0.3934 0.10413 2013 5 9 56421 0.0953 0.3937 0.10301 2013 5 10 56422 0.0967 0.3939 0.10204 2013 5 11 56423 0.0982 0.3941 0.10119 2013 5 12 56424 0.0996 0.3942 0.10043 2013 5 13 56425 0.1011 0.3944 0.09972 2013 5 14 56426 0.1026 0.3945 0.09903 2013 5 15 56427 0.1041 0.3946 0.09830 2013 5 16 56428 0.1056 0.3947 0.09751 2013 5 17 56429 0.1070 0.3948 0.09663 2013 5 18 56430 0.1085 0.3948 0.09564 2013 5 19 56431 0.1100 0.3948 0.09454 2013 5 20 56432 0.1115 0.3948 0.09335 2013 5 21 56433 0.1130 0.3948 0.09211 2013 5 22 56434 0.1145 0.3947 0.09087 2013 5 23 56435 0.1160 0.3946 0.08971 2013 5 24 56436 0.1175 0.3945 0.08867 2013 5 25 56437 0.1190 0.3944 0.08778 2013 5 26 56438 0.1205 0.3942 0.08701 2013 5 27 56439 0.1220 0.3940 0.08629 2013 5 28 56440 0.1235 0.3938 0.08556 2013 5 29 56441 0.1250 0.3936 0.08475 2013 5 30 56442 0.1265 0.3933 0.08387 2013 5 31 56443 0.1280 0.3930 0.08293 2013 6 1 56444 0.1295 0.3927 0.08198 2013 6 2 56445 0.1310 0.3924 0.08109 2013 6 3 56446 0.1325 0.3921 0.08030 2013 6 4 56447 0.1340 0.3917 0.07964 2013 6 5 56448 0.1355 0.3913 0.07914 2013 6 6 56449 0.1369 0.3909 0.07878 2013 6 7 56450 0.1384 0.3904 0.07856 2013 6 8 56451 0.1398 0.3899 0.07844 2013 6 9 56452 0.1413 0.3894 0.07840 2013 6 10 56453 0.1427 0.3889 0.07838 2013 6 11 56454 0.1442 0.3884 0.07834 2013 6 12 56455 0.1456 0.3878 0.07824 2013 6 13 56456 0.1470 0.3872 0.07805 2013 6 14 56457 0.1484 0.3866 0.07776 2013 6 15 56458 0.1498 0.3860 0.07736 2013 6 16 56459 0.1512 0.3853 0.07686 2013 6 17 56460 0.1525 0.3846 0.07629 2013 6 18 56461 0.1539 0.3839 0.07571 2013 6 19 56462 0.1552 0.3832 0.07516 2013 6 20 56463 0.1566 0.3825 0.07469 2013 6 21 56464 0.1579 0.3817 0.07433 2013 6 22 56465 0.1592 0.3809 0.07406 2013 6 23 56466 0.1605 0.3801 0.07386 2013 6 24 56467 0.1618 0.3793 0.07360 2013 6 25 56468 0.1630 0.3784 0.07325 2013 6 26 56469 0.1643 0.3775 0.07280 2013 6 27 56470 0.1655 0.3767 0.07225 2013 6 28 56471 0.1667 0.3757 0.07166 2013 6 29 56472 0.1679 0.3748 0.07110 2013 6 30 56473 0.1691 0.3738 0.07063 2013 7 1 56474 0.1703 0.3729 0.07030 2013 7 2 56475 0.1714 0.3719 0.07011 2013 7 3 56476 0.1726 0.3709 0.07008 2013 7 4 56477 0.1737 0.3698 0.07018 2013 7 5 56478 0.1747 0.3688 0.07040 2013 7 6 56479 0.1758 0.3677 0.07069 2013 7 7 56480 0.1769 0.3666 0.07101 2013 7 8 56481 0.1779 0.3655 0.07131 2013 7 9 56482 0.1789 0.3644 0.07155 2013 7 10 56483 0.1799 0.3632 0.07170 2013 7 11 56484 0.1809 0.3621 0.07174 2013 7 12 56485 0.1818 0.3609 0.07167 2013 7 13 56486 0.1827 0.3597 0.07150 2013 7 14 56487 0.1836 0.3585 0.07125 2013 7 15 56488 0.1845 0.3573 0.07097 2013 7 16 56489 0.1853 0.3561 0.07069 2013 7 17 56490 0.1862 0.3548 0.07047 2013 7 18 56491 0.1870 0.3535 0.07033 2013 7 19 56492 0.1878 0.3523 0.07028 2013 7 20 56493 0.1885 0.3510 0.07027 2013 7 21 56494 0.1892 0.3497 0.07025 2013 7 22 56495 0.1899 0.3483 0.07014 2013 7 23 56496 0.1906 0.3470 0.06990 2013 7 24 56497 0.1913 0.3457 0.06950 2013 7 25 56498 0.1919 0.3443 0.06900 2013 7 26 56499 0.1925 0.3429 0.06847 2013 7 27 56500 0.1931 0.3415 0.06799 2013 7 28 56501 0.1936 0.3402 0.06761 2013 7 29 56502 0.1941 0.3388 0.06738 2013 7 30 56503 0.1946 0.3373 0.06730 2013 7 31 56504 0.1951 0.3359 0.06735 2013 8 1 56505 0.1955 0.3345 0.06751 2013 8 2 56506 0.1959 0.3331 0.06775 2013 8 3 56507 0.1963 0.3316 0.06801 2013 8 4 56508 0.1967 0.3302 0.06825 2013 8 5 56509 0.1970 0.3287 0.06843 2013 8 6 56510 0.1973 0.3272 0.06851 2013 8 7 56511 0.1976 0.3258 0.06847 2013 8 8 56512 0.1978 0.3243 0.06830 2013 8 9 56513 0.1980 0.3228 0.06801 2013 8 10 56514 0.1982 0.3213 0.06763 2013 8 11 56515 0.1983 0.3198 0.06720 2013 8 12 56516 0.1985 0.3183 0.06677 2013 8 13 56517 0.1985 0.3168 0.06638 2013 8 14 56518 0.1986 0.3153 0.06607 2013 8 15 56519 0.1986 0.3138 0.06583 2013 8 16 56520 0.1986 0.3123 0.06565 2013 8 17 56521 0.1986 0.3108 0.06547 2013 8 18 56522 0.1985 0.3093 0.06522 2013 8 19 56523 0.1985 0.3078 0.06484 2013 8 20 56524 0.1983 0.3063 0.06429 2013 8 21 56525 0.1982 0.3048 0.06359 2013 8 22 56526 0.1980 0.3033 0.06279 2013 8 23 56527 0.1978 0.3018 0.06198 2013 8 24 56528 0.1975 0.3003 0.06123 2013 8 25 56529 0.1973 0.2988 0.06061 2013 8 26 56530 0.1970 0.2973 0.06013 2013 8 27 56531 0.1966 0.2958 0.05980 2013 8 28 56532 0.1963 0.2943 0.05959 2013 8 29 56533 0.1959 0.2928 0.05946 2013 8 30 56534 0.1954 0.2913 0.05937 2013 8 31 56535 0.1950 0.2898 0.05927 2013 9 1 56536 0.1945 0.2883 0.05912 2013 9 2 56537 0.1940 0.2869 0.05887 2013 9 3 56538 0.1934 0.2854 0.05851 2013 9 4 56539 0.1929 0.2840 0.05801 2013 9 5 56540 0.1923 0.2825 0.05738 2013 9 6 56541 0.1916 0.2811 0.05664 2013 9 7 56542 0.1910 0.2797 0.05585 2013 9 8 56543 0.1903 0.2782 0.05505 2013 9 9 56544 0.1895 0.2768 0.05430 2013 9 10 56545 0.1888 0.2754 0.05365 2013 9 11 56546 0.1880 0.2740 0.05311 2013 9 12 56547 0.1872 0.2727 0.05266 2013 9 13 56548 0.1864 0.2713 0.05226 2013 9 14 56549 0.1855 0.2699 0.05183 2013 9 15 56550 0.1846 0.2686 0.05131 2013 9 16 56551 0.1837 0.2673 0.05062 2013 9 17 56552 0.1827 0.2659 0.04974 2013 9 18 56553 0.1817 0.2646 0.04869 2013 9 19 56554 0.1807 0.2633 0.04751 2013 9 20 56555 0.1797 0.2621 0.04630 2013 9 21 56556 0.1787 0.2608 0.04512 2013 9 22 56557 0.1776 0.2596 0.04404 2013 9 23 56558 0.1765 0.2583 0.04309 2013 9 24 56559 0.1753 0.2571 0.04225 2013 9 25 56560 0.1742 0.2559 0.04151 2013 9 26 56561 0.1730 0.2547 0.04083 2013 9 27 56562 0.1717 0.2536 0.04016 2013 9 28 56563 0.1705 0.2524 0.03946 2013 9 29 56564 0.1692 0.2513 0.03869 2013 9 30 56565 0.1680 0.2502 0.03780 2013 10 1 56566 0.1666 0.2491 0.03679 2013 10 2 56567 0.1653 0.2481 0.03565 2013 10 3 56568 0.1640 0.2470 0.03441 2013 10 4 56569 0.1626 0.2460 0.03310 2013 10 5 56570 0.1612 0.2450 0.03178 2013 10 6 56571 0.1597 0.2440 0.03048 2013 10 7 56572 0.1583 0.2430 0.02924 2013 10 8 56573 0.1568 0.2421 0.02809 2013 10 9 56574 0.1553 0.2412 0.02703 2013 10 10 56575 0.1538 0.2403 0.02601 2013 10 11 56576 0.1523 0.2394 0.02497 2013 10 12 56577 0.1508 0.2385 0.02383 2013 10 13 56578 0.1492 0.2377 0.02256 2013 10 14 56579 0.1476 0.2369 0.02114 2013 10 15 56580 0.1460 0.2361 0.01959 2013 10 16 56581 0.1444 0.2354 0.01797 2013 10 17 56582 0.1427 0.2346 0.01630 2013 10 18 56583 0.1411 0.2339 0.01466 2013 10 19 56584 0.1394 0.2332 0.01315 2013 10 20 56585 0.1377 0.2326 0.01179 2013 10 21 56586 0.1360 0.2320 0.01055 2013 10 22 56587 0.1343 0.2314 0.00936 2013 10 23 56588 0.1326 0.2308 0.00822 2013 10 24 56589 0.1308 0.2302 0.00711 2013 10 25 56590 0.1291 0.2297 0.00602 2013 10 26 56591 0.1273 0.2292 0.00483 2013 10 27 56592 0.1255 0.2287 0.00355 2013 10 28 56593 0.1237 0.2283 0.00216 2013 10 29 56594 0.1219 0.2279 0.00068 2013 10 30 56595 0.1201 0.2275 -0.00090 2013 10 31 56596 0.1183 0.2271 -0.00258 2013 11 1 56597 0.1164 0.2268 -0.00432 2013 11 2 56598 0.1146 0.2265 -0.00603 2013 11 3 56599 0.1127 0.2262 -0.00768 2013 11 4 56600 0.1109 0.2260 -0.00925 2013 11 5 56601 0.1090 0.2258 -0.01072 2013 11 6 56602 0.1071 0.2256 -0.01215 2013 11 7 56603 0.1052 0.2255 -0.01360 2013 11 8 56604 0.1033 0.2253 -0.01511 2013 11 9 56605 0.1014 0.2252 -0.01672 2013 11 10 56606 0.0995 0.2252 -0.01837 2013 11 11 56607 0.0976 0.2251 -0.02011 2013 11 12 56608 0.0957 0.2251 -0.02183 2013 11 13 56609 0.0938 0.2251 -0.02346 2013 11 14 56610 0.0919 0.2252 -0.02506 2013 11 15 56611 0.0900 0.2253 -0.02650 2013 11 16 56612 0.0880 0.2254 -0.02776 2013 11 17 56613 0.0861 0.2255 -0.02896 2013 11 18 56614 0.0842 0.2257 -0.03003 2013 11 19 56615 0.0823 0.2259 -0.03098 2013 11 20 56616 0.0804 0.2262 -0.03184 2013 11 21 56617 0.0785 0.2264 -0.03260 2013 11 22 56618 0.0765 0.2267 -0.03335 2013 11 23 56619 0.0746 0.2270 -0.03409 2013 11 24 56620 0.0727 0.2274 -0.03489 2013 11 25 56621 0.0708 0.2278 -0.03581 2013 11 26 56622 0.0689 0.2282 -0.03683 2013 11 27 56623 0.0670 0.2286 -0.03793 2013 11 28 56624 0.0651 0.2291 -0.03910 2013 11 29 56625 0.0633 0.2296 -0.04029 2013 11 30 56626 0.0614 0.2302 -0.04146 2013 12 1 56627 0.0595 0.2307 -0.04261 2013 12 2 56628 0.0577 0.2313 -0.04370 2013 12 3 56629 0.0558 0.2320 -0.04471 2013 12 4 56630 0.0540 0.2326 -0.04568 2013 12 5 56631 0.0521 0.2333 -0.04672 2013 12 6 56632 0.0503 0.2340 -0.04782 2013 12 7 56633 0.0485 0.2348 -0.04907 2013 12 8 56634 0.0467 0.2355 -0.05048 2013 12 9 56635 0.0449 0.2363 -0.05201 2013 12 10 56636 0.0432 0.2372 -0.05358 2013 12 11 56637 0.0414 0.2380 -0.05511 2013 12 12 56638 0.0397 0.2389 -0.05656 2013 12 13 56639 0.0379 0.2398 -0.05783 2013 12 14 56640 0.0362 0.2408 -0.05897 2013 12 15 56641 0.0345 0.2418 -0.05998 2013 12 16 56642 0.0328 0.2428 -0.06090 2013 12 17 56643 0.0312 0.2438 -0.06174 2013 12 18 56644 0.0295 0.2448 -0.06254 2013 12 19 56645 0.0279 0.2459 -0.06342 2013 12 20 56646 0.0263 0.2470 -0.06439 2013 12 21 56647 0.0247 0.2482 -0.06538 2013 12 22 56648 0.0231 0.2493 -0.06643 2013 12 23 56649 0.0215 0.2505 -0.06755 2013 12 24 56650 0.0200 0.2517 -0.06879 2013 12 25 56651 0.0185 0.2530 -0.07017 2013 12 26 56652 0.0170 0.2542 -0.07158 2013 12 27 56653 0.0155 0.2555 -0.07296 2013 12 28 56654 0.0141 0.2568 -0.07424 2013 12 29 56655 0.0126 0.2582 -0.07538 2013 12 30 56656 0.0112 0.2595 -0.07640 2013 12 31 56657 0.0099 0.2609 -0.07736 2014 1 1 56658 0.0085 0.2623 -0.07835 2014 1 2 56659 0.0072 0.2637 -0.07943 2014 1 3 56660 0.0059 0.2652 -0.08066 2014 1 4 56661 0.0046 0.2667 -0.08200 2014 1 5 56662 0.0033 0.2682 -0.08343 2014 1 6 56663 0.0021 0.2697 -0.08485 2014 1 7 56664 0.0009 0.2712 -0.08619 2014 1 8 56665 -0.0003 0.2728 -0.08740 2014 1 9 56666 -0.0014 0.2743 -0.08847 2014 1 10 56667 -0.0025 0.2759 -0.08941 2014 1 11 56668 -0.0036 0.2776 -0.09023 2014 1 12 56669 -0.0047 0.2792 -0.09091 2014 1 13 56670 -0.0057 0.2808 -0.09150 2014 1 14 56671 -0.0067 0.2825 -0.09200 2014 1 15 56672 -0.0077 0.2842 -0.09247 2014 1 16 56673 -0.0086 0.2859 -0.09299 2014 1 17 56674 -0.0095 0.2876 -0.09358 2014 1 18 56675 -0.0104 0.2894 -0.09431 2014 1 19 56676 -0.0112 0.2911 -0.09513 2014 1 20 56677 -0.0120 0.2929 -0.09600 2014 1 21 56678 -0.0128 0.2947 -0.09695 2014 1 22 56679 -0.0135 0.2965 -0.09796 2014 1 23 56680 -0.0143 0.2983 -0.09896 2014 1 24 56681 -0.0149 0.3001 -0.09986 2014 1 25 56682 -0.0156 0.3019 -0.10070 2014 1 26 56683 -0.0162 0.3038 -0.10146 2014 1 27 56684 -0.0168 0.3056 -0.10216 2014 1 28 56685 -0.0173 0.3075 -0.10285 2014 1 29 56686 -0.0178 0.3094 -0.10362 2014 1 30 56687 -0.0183 0.3113 -0.10459 2014 1 31 56688 -0.0187 0.3132 -0.10582 2014 2 1 56689 -0.0191 0.3151 -0.10722 2014 2 2 56690 -0.0195 0.3170 -0.10871 2014 2 3 56691 -0.0198 0.3189 -0.11019 2014 2 4 56692 -0.0201 0.3209 -0.11158 2014 2 5 56693 -0.0204 0.3228 -0.11282 2014 2 6 56694 -0.0206 0.3247 -0.11388 2014 2 7 56695 -0.0208 0.3267 -0.11476 2014 2 8 56696 -0.0210 0.3286 -0.11550 2014 2 9 56697 -0.0211 0.3306 -0.11612 2014 2 10 56698 -0.0212 0.3326 -0.11669 2014 2 11 56699 -0.0212 0.3345 -0.11724 2014 2 12 56700 -0.0212 0.3365 -0.11784 2014 2 13 56701 -0.0212 0.3385 -0.11856 2014 2 14 56702 -0.0211 0.3405 -0.11941 2014 2 15 56703 -0.0210 0.3424 -0.12035 2014 2 16 56704 -0.0209 0.3444 -0.12135 2014 2 17 56705 -0.0207 0.3464 -0.12239 2014 2 18 56706 -0.0204 0.3484 -0.12346 2014 2 19 56707 -0.0202 0.3503 -0.12455 2014 2 20 56708 -0.0199 0.3523 -0.12562 2014 2 21 56709 -0.0196 0.3543 -0.12671 2014 2 22 56710 -0.0192 0.3562 -0.12779 2014 2 23 56711 -0.0188 0.3582 -0.12880 2014 2 24 56712 -0.0183 0.3602 -0.12987 2014 2 25 56713 -0.0179 0.3621 -0.13101 2014 2 26 56714 -0.0173 0.3641 -0.13231 2014 2 27 56715 -0.0168 0.3660 -0.13379 2014 2 28 56716 -0.0162 0.3679 -0.13544 2014 3 1 56717 -0.0156 0.3699 -0.13723 2014 3 2 56718 -0.0149 0.3718 -0.13907 2014 3 3 56719 -0.0142 0.3737 -0.14087 2014 3 4 56720 -0.0135 0.3756 -0.14252 2014 3 5 56721 -0.0127 0.3775 -0.14400 2014 3 6 56722 -0.0119 0.3794 -0.14531 2014 3 7 56723 -0.0110 0.3813 -0.14644 These predictions are based on all announced leap seconds. CELESTIAL POLE OFFSET SERIES: NEOS Celestial Pole Offset Series MJD dpsi error deps error (msec. of arc) 56343 -75.55 0.30 -10.39 0.03 56344 -75.17 0.30 -10.45 0.03 56345 -74.93 0.30 -10.44 0.03 IERS Celestial Pole Offset Final Series MJD dpsi deps (msec. of arc) 56294 -74.3 -8.6 56295 -74.2 -8.5 56296 -74.5 -8.2 56297 -74.8 -8.0 56298 -75.1 -7.8 56299 -75.5 -7.8 56300 -75.8 -7.9 56301 -75.8 -8.3 56302 -75.6 -8.6 56303 -75.3 -8.7 56304 -75.2 -8.5 56305 -75.0 -8.3 56306 -74.7 -8.1 56307 -74.5 -8.2 56308 -74.7 -8.3 56309 -75.2 -8.3 56310 -75.6 -8.4 56311 -75.6 -8.5 56312 -75.5 -8.6 56313 -75.5 -8.7 56314 -75.5 -8.8 56315 -75.3 -8.8 56316 -75.4 -8.9 56317 -75.5 -9.0 56318 -75.5 -9.0 56319 -75.2 -9.1 56320 -74.9 -9.2 56321 -74.5 -9.3 56322 -74.5 -9.3 56323 -74.5 -9.2 56324 -74.7 -9.1 IAU2000A Celestial Pole Offset Series MJD dX error dY error(msec. of arc) 56343 0.349 0.119 -0.106 0.030 56344 0.380 0.119 -0.129 0.030 56345 0.398 0.119 -0.126 0.030 IAU2000A Celestial Pole Offset Final SeriesMJD dX dY (msec. of arc) 56294 0.34 0.1756295 0.36 0.0956296 0.24 0.1356297 0.17 0.0856298 0.17 0.0656299 0.15 -0.0656300 0.14 -0.0456301 0.16 -0.0756302 0.21 0.0256303 0.28 0.0256304 0.29 0.0156305 0.31 -0.0456306 0.32 0.0756307 0.32 0.0456308 0.29 0.0156309 0.24 0.0556310 0.20 0.0056311 0.22 0.0056312 0.25 0.0256313 0.26 0.0256314 0.26 0.0056315 0.30 0.0756316 0.20 0.0056317 0.12 -0.0956318 0.10 -0.0856319 0.16 -0.1156320 0.19 -0.0856321 0.27 -0.0756322 0.26 -0.0856323 0.32 -0.1256324 0.31 -0.22 The recommended software to predict celestial pole offsets can be found at and software for the calculation of the dX and dY components with respect to IAU2000A Nutation/Precession Theory can be found at the web site in Chapter 5 Section 5.5 of the IERS Conventions (2010).

      • Dollarbill: If the eye offends you pluck it out. Talk it over with Dal or whomever replaces me as the wordy one here.

      • Dang Old Jules
        I hope you cut and pasted that hill that adding to the mountain.
        Old Jules I do like your pilosphies but since you know the country probably better than any of us could you give us maybe every so often where it was’nt for you and why. No offense but you hurt my thinker on thos pilosphies sometimes.
        Pilosphes will help but if we could rule out some areas like Bandeliar it would save searchers time and money not well spent. It can be quite expensive to travel to certain spots especially if you do not live nearby, plus the hotels if you do stay in them, food and also the time away from work in less you are retired.
        Thanks and I still like you more and not less of your post.

      • Tim: Fairly easily satisfied request. It isn’t in New Mexico. Anyone who wants a growth experience from looking in New Mexico will probably get his moneys worth by doing it, and have the good fortune of not finding the box.

        Best not spend any money, vacation time searching New Mexico unless you have the capacity to do your growing from whatever else you find there. But if you’re only after that box do your searching north of the NM/Colorado boundary.

        Here’s wishing you whatever you wish for yourself from it all.

  15. OK, I have been following this for about a month, and reading up on things, even have a book on order.

    Here is what gets me. Warm waters. there are lots of hot springs up and down the mountains. New mexico has several, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, etc.. Here is my thing, he says WARM waters, to me, that more or less eliminates the hot springs up and down the mountains. Obviously someone has figured this and the second clue out, so says F.F.. So what would define WARM waters. I have found so many places that fit several of the clues and warent a good thorough look. While I am stuck in Florida, unable to get there myself, I have plenty of family scattered throughout the rocky mountains and are interested enough to look for me.

    Warm waters, not hot…..Warm waters, not hot. GRRRRRRRRR. Still sending family to look at some of the spots I like though.

    Second peice of my thought process,

    Title to the gold.

    I am aware of Mr. Fenns, I wont call it disdain or disreguard, but unliking of the government intervention in his treasure hunting, but title to the gold seems to me that its an out on the legal troubles that may come with the search. My thought is he has purchased the land that it is on and with the chest, comes the title to the land which it is on, solving the legal trouble of the ownership. Title to the gold.

    Drawing on that, it would put it outside YNP, fortunatly, most of my spots are outside national park areas, but pretty close.

    • I concur with much of your thinking. I see two scenarios.

      1) If FF hid the chest on land that he owns and if you find the chest before his demise, there will be minimal ownership problems. If you find the chest after his demise, you will most likely be considered a trespasser by his estate and any future owners of the land.

      2) If FF hid the treasure on any other lands and if you find it before his demise, the finder would most likely be required to say where he/she found the chest and FF would most likely be required tell the exact spot where he hid it, possibly causing ownership problems for the finder. If you find it after his demise, then it will be the finder’s conscience to say where the chest was found and FF would not be able to contradict the finder. However, where on Earth could a person say he/she found the chest without any potential ownership problems? I don’t think anyone would believe that you found it in your backyard, or any of your friend’s or relative’s backyards.

      This is a problem that I have yet to resolve with my limited knowledge of Real Property Law, Finders Law, or any other laws. I probably will never resolve it..

      • I am like you dollarbill I have limited knowledge too of property law or finders laws ect. But my time that I had spent in Arizona I did learn from that state that the WATER RIGHT laws are quit differant out in the Western states. Really don’t know if that could mean much but it is something I have considered and read on.

        • So why are you guys so worried about removing the chest from federal land
          I would not put too much energy into that until I found it however to put this to rest
          Here is what some of the law states

          •Antiquities Act of 1906 – established protection over any “historic ruin or monument, or any object of antiquity situated on government lands required permits for their removal. The Secretary of the Interior was charged with this responsibility

          So if I find the chest to me the answer would be to ask if you can remove it first and if granted then take it away. I suppose the local ranger over that area would grant your request after you asked then told him what you are removing do you not think, the chest is not an antiquity of that area and has no significant historical or monument to it as well, so I would first worry about finding it then just ask before taking it. Just don’t tell anyone know where it is till you get the permsiion to remove it
          To me that is the most logical and legal thing to do and you should have no problems
          Do not people ask private land owners if they can search their property for things, of course but you need to ask first to be legal about it.

      • @ TIM- thanks for the information. The reason I worry about what the laws are is because I think Mr. Fenn took the laws into consideration when he hid his treasure. I could be wrong, it is just my thoughts, but I feel Mr. Fenn did not want someone to get into a whole lot of trouble if they where lucky enough to figure out where the treasure is hidden.

        • I agree Lola. My feeling from reading his blog about his disagreements with the Feds and his stories about his exploits lead me to believe that no matter what grievances Mr Fenn has with the government, he would not want to get any of us into trouble by putting the treasure on Federal or Tribal lands. I certainly could be wrong, but that is the sense I get of him from his writings.

      • @Tim: More to consider.

        Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979

        http://www.cr.nps.gov/local-law/fhpl_archrsrcsprot.pdf

        My internet research regarding abandoned property on federal lands has led me to the conclusion that the federal government now claims ownership of all treasures found on federal lands. They interpret the Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979 as giving the feds this ownership and the courts are currently ruling in favor of the feds.

        A person should talk to a lawyer specialized in Finders Law before assuming he/she has ownership of a found abandoned treasure.

        • DollarBill
          So the question is? Is the treasure chest an archeological resource, not I think it would be no different than removing a candy wrapper from federal land, has nothing to do with the archeology of the site and really pollutes the archeology of what is contained there. No relevance to me but I would be more worried about if it was on Indian land. So can we worry about this later and get on finding it first?

          • While I doubt that the treasure is on Federal land, if I were ever so lucky as to find it and it was on Federal land, I’m not so sure I would bother asking permission to remove it. I might just feel like Mr Fenn that there is no reason for the treasure to even be considered Federal property. It was private property left by a private citizen who gave the finder title to it. I’d probably be investigated for it if I revealed where I found it though! 😀

    • I thought that too about hot springs, but then I learned that some can be warm and not hot.

      It was said by Tony from Newsweek that Forrest does not own any land besides his home property. I personally believe the reason he says go in peace is because it will be on land that someone can stake a claim from.

      • How do we know that Forrest owns no land except his home? We’d have to check each county in each state because property records are collected by the county and real property is assessed by the county. I believe that Tony may have checked a couple of counties around Yellowstone..as have I, and probably you, but just because we didn’t find a Forrest B. Fenn listed as the owner does not mean he does not own ANY property!!
        What if he has a holding company or a corporation…his actual name might not be on the deed. Not only that but many counties do not make land records available on the web. You’d have to go to the county courthouse and do a search.
        In my opinion private property is a good hunch for a variety of reasons. I keep looking for property with a sign that reads “Trespassing Allowed” or “Please Trespass”…

        • Tony said that Forrest said he didn’t own any land in the comments section of the first Newsweek article. I know it’s not a good idea to put faith into what Tony says though. I did look to see if he owned any land and he could have it in a trust under a trust name…but that comment by tony made me think he doesn’t…and the go in peace means it’s not private property…

  16. My understanding of “Northerly” is the same as yours Dal and Bandelier National Monument never entered my mind as a possibility. I still don’t have a book so the only clues besides the poem comes from what is on Forrest’s blog and the information from some of the interviews and from some things posted on your blog. BTW, thanks for putting everything together here. I’m trying to read as much as I can about him to understand what areas might be the “special” ones for him, and as you said, he never mentioned Bandelier.

  17. Curious as to what would happen if say you rent a cabin in the woods and purposely leave something there. Would the lost and found policy of the property owner kick in then?

    • Kym, I meant no disrespect, I thought I was just adding more possibilities along that same thought process. Wood to Glenwoody, wise to wise river, thermopolis to thermal, to warm water.

      • Love is not easily offended. 🙂 I’m taking my vaca up by Yellowstone, MT ~ I actually think it’s there. 🙂 and WY., my son and dog and I will check the closer ones on weekends weather permitting. Don’t want Ronan muddying up my seats lol 🙂

  18. I also don’t think it’s in Bandalier cuz I can’t take my dog hiking there. Forest has dogs and may even take them with him at times, but prolly not carrying 42 lbs, on 2 seperate occasions. lol

  19. it takes the glory of God to conceal a matter. And it takes the honor of Kings to search it out. whoever finds the chest will be a king, little ‘k’, of sorts 🙂

  20. I’ve also thought about Echo Falls in Pecos Nat’l forest, I keep coming up with water, cliffs, caves, holes, bridges and break off streams , oh, and graveyards and fireplaces and dams. 🙂 man-made and beaver lol, did you know that a family of beavers lives in a 6 foot by 3 foot underwater villa, and gets out by a tunnel to land when the lake freezes over. lol WOW! I’ve learned sooo much, my brain is sayin’ “hold up” let me THINK!! lol

    • Echo falls, hmmmm, I used to work near there, at a summer camp in the canyon. I hadn’t thought about how many of the clues actually fit with there, havent thought about that place in a long time (18 years in the Navy has kept me away). I may remember a hot spring up there in the Pecos Valley that I have not found on any of the maps I have been looking over (probably why it didn’t come to mind immediatly). Lots of things in the poem fit with that. HMMMMMM.

    • I just spent some time looking over maps, and my spot outside Pecos qualifies as north of Santa Fe about as well as BNP. Although it is “north” on 25 from Santa Fe.

  21. Is anyone starting the search in a direction other than North of Santa Fe? Just because the chest is North does it mean that you can’t start in another direction and end up there? Just wondering, since I am also trying to begin North at this point. Not that I need to add more possibilities and more confusion! 🙂

    • More for you to ponder on, if I hid a treasure and didn’t want you to find for a long long time, I would give you directions that are opposite of what they really were. Yet, I would be consistently misleading so that someday you would realize it and eventually turn around and find the treasure.

      FF has warned us that he uses some words that are not in the dictionary and that he embellishes his stories a little. So why would he not continue doing this in his poem and his clues.

      Just a thought since you did ask.

  22. So… Does anyone know how Im supposed to test a code I found in the poem I think i’m starting to go crazy.. I want it to be correct but I cant decide if i’m forcing the issue.

    Thoughts?

    • you can test your code by running it past me 🙂 i’m all ears or eyes. i imagiine everyone has felt like you do now.. i’m resolved at this point to just check areas i’ve felt strongly about. its time to hit the ground, trial and error now.

  23. Did anyone here ever look for the Dodge Journey last year when they had three different vehicles hidden around the US and clues given out to find them? The common thread for all three is that all of them were hidden near National Parks but not IN the boundaries of the parks. I am guessing this is because of ownership rights and because one would have to get permission to legally hide a “treasure” inside a government owned property. Since Forrest is the only person who knows where the treasure is, I believe that it is not inside the boundaries of a National Park. I think Forrest hid his treasure near Yellowstone but don’t believe it can be IN Yellowstone.

  24. I find it hilarious that some people state that they have searched a particular area/region. Hilarious for the reason that there is no way any 1 person is able to comb “thoroughly, through a forest, river, cave, etc… with their own 2 feet, 2 eyes, 2 hands, etc… Stating that you searched that area and topping it off by saying it wasn’t there is ridiculous. There’s a saying among real treasure hunters and that is “you miss by an inch, you miss by a mile”. Also attempting to organize a team is only going to complicate the search especially if this “Thrill of the Chase” is your first ever, real life, treasure hunt. Listen every single person believes they know where it is, or have the perfect location that fits with Mr. Fenn’s awesome Poem, but the kicker is that every single person wants to be right so organzing a team would be impossible as you would need million$ to search everyone’s ideal “hot spots”! Good luck and Happy Hunting…Oh and one final thing…I already searched the entire Rocky Mountains, every forest, every river, every cave, every lake, every canyon, every waterfall, etc… and it’s not in the Rockies so don’t bother looking there, its been completely search by me. HA!

    • That is a saying among real treasure hunters. In fact, the notorious treasure seeker Matthew McConaughey said it in “Fool’s Gold”. You miss by an inch, you miss by a mile!

  25. too funny lol VG. Forrest tells exactly how to get there in the poem I’ve found, now we just need to figure out the ‘where’ the start line is. 🙂

  26. As I have gone alone in there
    – A CAVE
    And with my treasures bold,
    – WALKING IN THERE ALL TOUGH, WITH NO FEAR, FOR WHAT MIGHT BE IN THERE.
    I can keep my secret where,
    – DEEP WITHIN THE CAVE
    And hint of riches new and old.
    – ANCIENT WALL PAINTINGS, ALONG WITH MODERN DAY GRAFFITI BY HOODLUMS.

    Begin it where warm waters halt
    – A WATERFALL WITH A SMALL STREAM HEADING INTO THE CAVE
    And take it in the canyon down,
    -CANYON HEADED DOWNWARD TO THE WATERFALL
    Not far, but too far to walk.
    -ACCESSIBLE BY A ROAD BUT A BIT FAR TO WALK “TAKE A SANDWICH AND A DR.PEPPER!”
    Put in below the home of Brown.
    – IN THE CAVE WHERE BROWN BATS CALL HOME, THEY ARE HANGING JUST ABOVE YOU!

    From there it’s no place for the meek,
    – DARK IN THE CAVE, NO PLACE FOR THE MEEK, BRING YOUR TOUGHNESS AND A FLASHLIGHT
    The end is ever drawing nigh;
    – THE END OF THE CAVE
    There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
    – NO PADDLE NEED FROM THE ROADSIDE, TO WATERFALL INTO THE CAVE NEEDED JUST A BIT OF HIKING.
    Just heavy loads and water high.
    – WATERFALL WILL BE HIGH AND THE LOADS IS LIFTING THE ROCKS THAT ARE COVERING AND PROTECTING THE CHEST.

    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
    – THE CAVE WALL, AT THE END OF THE CAVE, WILL HAVE A BLAZE BUT IT WILL BE CONFUSING AS THERE ARE LOTS OF WRITINGS THROUGHOUT LOOK FOR THE ‘LETTER F’
    Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
    – LOOK AT THE WRITINGS THAT ARE LOWER ON THE CAVE WALL NOT THE HIGH ONES
    But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
    – BOOM THERE IT IS, THE LETTER ‘F’ LIFT THAT HEAVY LOAD OF ROCKS BUT FIRST ENJOY THE MOMENT AND BEAUTIFUL SIGHT
    Just take the chest and go in peace.
    – LIFT THE CHEST AND GO IN PEACE AS NOT TO WAKE THE BROWN BATS THAT ARE IN THERE WITH YOU.

    So why is it that I must go
    – MR. FENN MUST GO AND HIDE THIS TREASURE TO CREATE THIS CHASE, TO LEAVE A STORY BEHIND, LEGACY, MYSTERY, IMMORTALITY!
    And leave my trove for all to seek?
    – TO KEEP PEOPLE ATTEMPTING TO SEARCH FOR HIS CHEST TO GET THEM IN THE BEAUTIFUL OUTDOORS.
    The answer I already know,
    – HE KNOWS THAT MONEY, GOLD, IS THE BEST MOTIVATOR
    I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.
    – WALKING WITH THE CHEST DOWN THE CANYON, INTO THE CAVE, TO THE END OF THE CAVE AND MARKING THE CAVE WALL, LIFTING THE ROCKS, AND BACK OUT AGAIN.

    So hear me all and listen good,
    – PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE POEM, BOOK AND HIS INTERVIEWS FOR CLUES.
    Your effort will be worth the cold.
    – WATERFALL COLD, INSIDE CAVE COLD, COLD WITH FEAR OF A POSSIBLE BROWN BEAR AND BROWN BATS IN THE CAVE.
    If you are brave and in the wood
    – MUST BE BRAVE AND HAVE BRAVERY AS STRONG AS OAK WITH NO FEAR TO ENTER THE CAVE.
    I give you title to the gold.
    – LIFT THE CHEST, TAKE IT, FOR YOU HAVE BEEN SMART, BRAVE ENOUGH AND HAVE DEFINITELY EARNED IT.

      • Tim that’s because Mr. Fenn doesn’t want Gadi to be the finder of his trove. Gadi is media… Just imagine what the entire nation would say if Gadi, the person who interviewed Mr. Fenn in the beginning of it all? Everyone would say it was all a well planned out money making scheme. In addition to that. remember that Mr. Fenn would like his trove not to be found for thousands of years so ofcourse he is going to steer you in the wrong direction if you’re ungrateful and ask for more clues…MR. FENN ALREADY GAVE EVERYONE HIS POEM AND HIS BOOK which is more than enough…don’t go asking Mr. Fenn for more clues as he will make you pay the price…in the form of confusing “THE THRILL OF THE CHASE”

        • I think it was for his safety and clue tip, I think he likes Gadi what about Dal he sort of media as well do you not think, if he is not media what is lummifilm anyway so does he mislead Dal?
          Remeber Forrest also said you need a flashlight but only because it could get dark while out hunting so those two together means no cave

      • If Mr. Fenn really liked Gadi, as you imply, Mr. Fenn would have drove up to the KOB station and handed Gadi the treasure trove without having us all hiking up and down canyons, in waterfalls, in caves, fighting off bears, mountain lions, snakes, etc… Once again I wouldn’t underestimate Mr. Fenn…He may be super nice, in person, by phone and via emails but it’s for a simple reason…to spread the “Thrill of the Chase” via media…Mr. Fenn knows all about how to acquire resources or use resources or that at his disposal. Mr. Fenn is a genius, a master at this! Also about Dal…well he just insulted me somewhere within this blog which I’m still trying to get over as he hurt my feelings. Anyways if Mr. Fenn really liked Dal he wouldn’t have Dal searching in about 30 wrong places which Dal has done for over 2 years. Again Mr. Fenn would have just handed Dal the Chest and be on his marry way. Once again I say…Mr. Fenn knows how to use that which is around him…trickster? Nah…Genius…Very Resourceful is Mr. Fenn! The Media by television, with Gadi, and this blog with Dal…”The Thrill of the Chase”

        • VGBOSS
          So Gadi and Forrest could find it first, so what do we do to prevent that, get rid of them cuase they are the media. The more you look the better chance you have to find it. It was in a cave that to me is the same as burying it. I have been in caves and mines before but not in this chase. Be very careful because they are very dangerous places and I do’nt believe Forrest left the chest in a dangerous area. Just my take on it though and I respect your thoughts but if we don’t make some kind of assumptions we will never find it.

  27. I got one lol Independance Rock in Wyoming. lol It says that over 5000 names have been carved on that rock by pioneers, now how many FEET did they have? hmmm. it is also called, “The Great Register” of the desert. LOL

  28. that’s independence 😉 heavy loads of wagons went through there, also how tall is Forrest and how high would his waders be? hmm 3 1/2 feet- 4/12 feet

    • I got there, but I did not go into the Cave, I was too MEEK. Too chicken. Maybe I should have drank 9 Dr. Peppers to energize me, help me find the courage, to had gone into the Cave. I’ll try again possibly in summer, see if I can muster some courage then.

  29. and just maybe as others have said on, “I give you title to the gold” is that you will find the “title of ownership” and you have to go to a bank safety deposit box to pck it up. 🙂

    • Safe Deposit Box is the way I believe he most certainly went with, but I could be wrong as I’m only human and received a public school education. Find that title “trove” and go collect! Cha Ching Baby! If the Government or whoever says that the Chest belongs to them…. fight it in court and they will win the piece of paper that you found hidden on the property and you keep the Chest because the Chest was never in the property to begin with! HAHAHA…Mr. Fenn is a genius, in an odd sort of way, you guys can’t forget that, don’t underestimate Mr. Fenn…NEVER! Whoever thinks they are smart and smarter than Mr. Fenn and is attempting to find his ‘trove’ will FAIL! Noone is smarter than Mr. Fenn. I’m sure he can write another book about himself and his experiences, in his life, if he wanted to! This man is a treasure!!! GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULLS PEOPLE, MR. FENN IS A “TREASURE”!

    • Take a step back and remember what this is all about… Forrest made it clear that is old-school treasure hunting; a quest that originally (and still might) included finding a corpse along with the treasure. I don’t think he would fit in a safety deposit box. And don’t forget about the autobiography. It is common knowledge that it was sealed in a pickle jar as protection from the elements. I believe the treasure to be where Forrest has told us to look: In the mountains north of Santa Fe.

  30. Mr. Fenn’s treasure trove has been said to be worth over $1,000,000 some media puppets are saying it may be worth up to $4,000,000. With that said, a few bucks in your wallet or purse with a full tank in the truck, suv, or van, with the poem and book by your side, is not going to get you to Mr. Fenn’s ‘trove’. If you believe it will well you might as well toss a penny in a wishing well/fountain, make your wish, and hope it multiplies into millions or that millions come your way within the next 72 hours. Heck forget about the contents of the bronze Romanesque lock box, think about this box itself which Mr. Fenn has stated that it’s worth over $20,000 so you think – that you, with a few dollars, and a few tanks of gas, chewing on seeds or gum, is going to bring you $20,000? If you do…you might as well play the Lotto… $1 to win Millions. Seriously though you have better odds of predicting what my favorite color is right this moment than locating Mr. Fenn’s Treasure Trove…but hey it’s all about enjoying the outdoors right? Happy Hunting and be safe. Don’t be going into those caves without a sandwich and flashlight.

      • VGBOSS you are sounding like an angry buzzkill. It’s supposed to be fun. If you’re not having fun you are missing the big picture, and the real treasure. Just sayin’.

    • Molly B I’m sorry that you take it in that manner…it was awfuly quite in this particular blog last night and early this morning so I decided to toss in my 2 cents knowing that many are reading but not replying. So many people are searching out there and not posting anything, which they should do to make this Chase truly fun. So many are scared as to possibly accidentially give their whereabouts, or speak anything towards the Chase or what they have seen or found something that may help with the search of Mr. Fenn’s treasure trove….This blog was just silent, late last night and early this morning, so I decided to take it upon myself to toss in a ‘bone’ and well it’s alive and kicking again so soon I shall stop and will start again if it gets like that again. I appreciate the response though. Happy Hunting and Be Safe.

  31. Quoting Dal **remember that Forrest has said he hid the chest in a place that is “special” to him.**

    I ‘m new here,and trying to catch up. So I’ve been reading the stories on Forrest’s site.
    The story “Concy and Me” strikes me as interesting, relating to special spots.

    Many of the spots that could be “where warm waters halt” ; hot springs, waterfalls etc are draws for significant numbers of tourists and so could probably be safely eliminated from our lists of spots to search.

    Yellowstone does draw vast numbers of people, but the park is so enormous that there are still lots of places where few people go.

    • so Dave after reading Concy and me, maybe the treasure is behind a locked gate that we need the combo for to get through instead of walking far, but not too far.

      • they have said it was kinda like Fenn to be Like Indiana Jones, well in those movies there is always some sort of puzzle or cryptic lock to undo.

      • No ,I think its readily accessable for someone to retrieve. I was refering to that story in refference to Forrest’s sense of a “special spot”. After the VIP had been given priviliged access Forrest never returned to that spot.
        So I’m just saying the spot is unlikely to be one that a lot of people regularly go to.

  32. your favorite color is blue. lol

    I don’t mean to seem like I’m breeding confusion just don’t have anyone to bounce ides off of.

    Have you thought about Brown being the Mt. Carmel Junction, of Zion Natl park in Utah? nice left and right forks there and a waterfall that you have to wade thru a narrow rock to get to?

    and froggie on bottom of page. http://www.zionnational-park.com/left-fork-north-creek.htm
    I’m still headed to 2 places that I’ve narrowed it to in MT. for vaca though 🙂

    • I’ve always thought about how a magician makes you look at other things like the things and places in his book to distract from where it is. So an entirely different place might be an option. It’s the reason I looked at The Air Force Academy in Colorado. He never mentioned that…but he could have eluded to it in his story about being in the service.

  33. Would the Carlsbad Caverns qualify or be within the boundaries of this search if Dal actually expanded his photo above would they? Or am I way off and don’t know squat like Dal implies? I mean these Caverns would be a great place to hide a treasure trove to not be found for thousands of years. I know the Carlsbad Caverns are Southeastern New Mexico in the Guadalupe Mountains but Dal’s photo above is kind of making me think over down yonder…dataway! No paddle up your creek but there is an elevator! Lots of Brown bats around! Huge heavy load, massive formations. Ocean plants there, new and old like prehistoric stuff.

    So does Carlsbad Caverns quality in this search?

      • Dang it, first Bandelier National is to far West now the Carlsbad Caverns are too far south…Well then which state should I search through first with a fine-tooth comb? Montana, Idaho, Wyoming , Utah, Colorado, New Mexico or should I search the entire country of Canada first? I’m going to have to log all my journey’s for if I don’t find it I can pass my log book, with all my data, of where I’ve searched, to someone before I leave this material earth. I already feel like Bilbo Baggins…off in search of The One Ring of Power and I haven’t even left yet.

      • Bilbo didn’t search for the one ring of power, he merely found it by complete accident (or was it fate?) under the misty mountains. That was in the story “The Hobbit”. Now, in the “Lord of the Rings” he did travel across Middle-Earth to destroy the ring before it was found by the enemy.
        As for where to search for the FF treasure, Forrest has said that it is in the rocky mountains north of Santa Fe. That could mean parts of New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, even Idaho. Heck, even part of Canada but somehow I don’t think that Forrest went that far when he hid the treasure. He was 79 or 80 after all when he did it.
        My advice, pick a spot that might be where warm waters halt and see how likely it would be that FF had been there sometime in his life. From there try to find the second clue that would be nearby and work from there until all or most of the clues have been found or have fallen into place. Use the tools of the Internet to thoroughly research your spot. When you have reached the point where you are confident, plan your trip to your spot. If you find it or not, enjoy the trip and make it memorable.

  34. I think that it is more like cliffs than a cave. a hole in rock or ground than a grave and it may even be up like an undercut or overhang of rock or bank. an old abandoned cabin than cave. but i will look in caves too if I find one 🙂 lol I thought of Carlsbad too, but alas, it’s too far south and not in the Rocky Mountains. I do remember me and my kids visiting a stalagtite cavern in Bandera, Texas once, a little known one too. so, maybe there are some in a Northerly direction as well. Maybe an old Outlaw hideout from the 1800’s since we know Forrest loves history.

  35. But KYM did Mr. Fenn actually mean THE ROCKY MOUNTAINS or rocky mountains and we all know that there are many mountains that are very rocky north of Santa Fe. Again we shouldn’t underestimate Mr. Fenn. Does he mean the actual Rocky Mountains that go through the states of Montana, Idaho, Wyoming , Utah, Colorado, New Mexico as well as far up north to Canada or does he mean any mountain that is rocky up north of Santa Fe?

  36. you know VG, you are thinking as hard as the rest of us what exactly does he mean? lol

    I had also thought well, maybe it’s only like within an hour of Santa Fe, I mean he lives here , why not keep it in his own backyard so-to- speak, so it boosts the Santa Fe community as well with all the drawn crowds of spending searchers, they need to eat, sleep and fuel their cars too! 🙂

    I also read that on one of his home made jars it says, ” imagination is better than knowlege.” misspelled on purpose. 🙂 So we are to USE IT!

  37. Several posters have written that only a dam defines “where warm water halts” because it does two things, it halts water and it stops warm water because the water from a dam is released at the bottom where is is cold.
    While I do not have the formal education that many of you have, I have led a very full life with many learning experiences.
    May I offer a different perspective?
    Lay a map out on a table. Locate a line defining a waterway. Follow that line in both directions (disregard that you know the direction of flow).
    One line will merge with another line (different waterway) or will merge with a lake. However, the line will continue, thru other confluences, until it reaches an ocean or sea.
    The other line may or may not go thru similar points of merger, but it will eventually end, stop or “halt”!
    This is a one-dimensional view. It is quite similar to what a pilot would see when looking down from above. If flying up a canyon in the Rocky Mts., he would see a line (water) that would eventually “halt”, either at a spring or snowpack. (Who do we know that likes to fly up canyons?)
    Warm waters is a relative term. Water is either liquid or frozen (I know, water vapor). The liquid form, at whatever temperature, is “warmer” than the frozen form.
    I know, this probably doesn’t aid in where to “begin”. In fact, it will no doubt cause many to question their locations.
    Just sayin……Fred

      • Stephanie-
        I completely understand the argument that some fish live in warm waters and other fish live in cold water.
        I have, in the past 60 years, fished for both in Texas and New Mexico.
        I was merely pointing out, in its simplest form, that water could appear to “stop” at the source!
        Fred

        • Gotcha Fred and I agree. I like the confluence idea the best out of any of the ideas of halting…because it’s something a non fisher person might not realize exists and he would.

          • Fred W.
            Are you refering to this as warm waters halt
            the confluence of the Red River and the Rio Grande at La Junta Point — possibly the most dramatic vista statewide, and it is wheelchair accessible

          • The vista is wheelchair accessible but the hike down into the gorge, where the confluence occurs, is certainly not wheelchair accessible. That was the very first place I looked. That was before Forrest mentioned that we needn’t bother looking where a 79-80 year old man would not go. It’s not a problem going down and it’s not even a problem coming back up if you are 30 years old or a goat. Okay…people of all ages go down all those trails into the gorge but I really decided that Forrest was not going to want to go down there with a 42lb chest on his back…and since he told others that he made two trips…it’s even more unrealistic, in my opinion.

          • So I do not where to post this but has anyone ever thought that the chest could be along the Santa Fe Trail
            Heavy loads and water high could mean a conestoga wagon? Did you know a conestoga wagon could carry 8 tons of supplies and also ford water, try that in your F-350, not.
            For a nice description of the Santa Fe trail read this if you like and who knows but Forrest was sort of into this I belief maybe he wrote it.
            This is the nightly bedtime reading requirement for New Mexico searchers only

            http://www.santafetrailnm.org/sfthistory.html

      • Tim and Stephanie, thank you for acknowledging my post.

        Before I go any further, let me explain that this is my first time, ever, to post to any BLOG. I don’t text, tweet or have a Facebook page (although, to my daughter’s dismay, I do sing in the shower.}

        I think you are missing my point.
        Probably my fault in how I tried to explain it. The confluence of waterways, any waterway, was not what I was trying to impart.

        Let’s try it this way: Basically, assume you were a child (I’m not saying you are children) and in a plane that Forrest was flying up a canyon in the Rocky Mountains, following a stream. If you were watching the stream as you got to the head of the canyon, the stream would appear to stop or “halt”.
        This is because the source is either a spring or snowpack that is melting.

        I was attempting to point out how “where warm waters halt” could actually be up high in the canyon, at the source. Perhaps Forrest is playing with words??
        Hope this is clearer as mud…Fred

        • I understand what you are saying Fred. True enough…
          And here’s another interesting idea about a confluence for the doubting Thomas’ out there. Someone once suggested to me that if you have a stream that is warm running into a stream that is cold the warm water does not halt at that confluence because at that confluence the warm water mixes with the cold water…it does not halt…
          HOWEVER..upstream of the confluence the warm water cannot go. The warm water can only go downstream. So…where the warm water cannot go is where warm water halts…
          Interestingly these places are the same..It’s all at the confluence it’s just a different way of looking at how the waters move and don’t move…

        • I’m glad your posting Fred 😉 My husband has actually tried to explain the same idea to me…it’s clearer hearing your description about what he was talking about. It is an interesting idea that he would have planned out the course by the air.

      • Dal,

        Did Forrest really make two trips to hide the gold away? Does anyone know the source for that fact? I have heard it before and think it might be important information to consider.

        Thanks,
        JP

        • He told my husband and son that 2 years ago…but I’m not sure it’s helpful. What if he’s 10 feet from the car, but just figured it was easier to secret it in two trips…maybe the contents were in a zippy and he brought that separate from the chest. He might have done it though because it was a mile trek into the woods. I just don’t know how you could prove he did it because he was a ways into the woods.

          • 42 pounds is pretty heavy for most people. Our wood pellets for our stove come in 40 pound bags and something that heavy would not be easy to transport very far without breaking it up into at least 2 loads. I tend to take Forrest at his word and if he told you husband and son that he did it in two trips, I’d believe him. Most people could carry 20 pounds in a good backpack(or maybe 2 backpacks) . The harder part is figuring out how far…… although he did say people have come within 500ft – I might even be able to walk that far with 20 pounds! 🙂

      • JP-
        Gadi Schwartz said in one of his TV news reports that Forrest told him that. So it’s second hand information but I trust Gadi.

      • reservoirs are a thought but confluence rivers make just as much sense.

        many high altitude rivers are cold glacier fed offering a perfect climate for fish hatcheries to plant trout… he does like to fish. trout offers many pluses to the environment to include supporting food for an entire ecosystem.

      • what about the chest being the heavy load(s), and it is placed high on a ledge where in parts of colorado has springs coming out of the mountain walls to include ledges with pooling. Though Im having problems with colorado..

        • I don’t know about heavy loads, but I have had some spots(Tarryall Colorado) where I found a youtube video from someone else about a boat that went over the waterfall. I found a spot in the video that showed what looked like a bronze sparkle on the rock wall and you could clearly see it when the video was stopped. It would have been perfect, because you could walk up to the top of the rock wall and I just thought that it was on a ledge that you could only see from up above. I was so excited about that search…had everything match up including the cemetery, and the stagecoach grill…and there was a farm of buffalo even….and who calls a town Tarryall to match Forrest’s poem????

          • Stephi, are you saying you saw that bronze shine and you didn’t go diving into the water to check it out???? Darn, girl! I’d be sloppy wet cold or not.

          • go to youtube and search tarryall boat and see if you see what i saw…it was freaky.

            Sent from my Samsung Galaxy™ S II 4GTHRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

          • Stephanie you posted a picture of that on your blog didn’t you? Why didn’t you ever go check the sparkle out?

          • I did check it out, but couldn’t figure out what it was catching. Took most of my blog down with my videos and pics so everyone can follow dal into the wood and not me.

            Sent from my Samsung Galaxy™ S II 4GTHRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

        • Planes delayed….is it a sign i should stay here forever? Your antisocial….afraid to meet me in person. If you hear of a plane crash in denver….theres one less searcher.

          Sent from my Samsung Galaxy™ S II 4GTHRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

    • Finally, someone else states what I have said from the beginning…Where warm waters halt IS a major river drainage somewhere in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe. A river that flows through a canyon, and below the home of Brown. One thing is for CERTAIN!! THE CHEST IS IN a canyon or side canyon that has water in it or above it…That narrows it down…lol…

  38. Imagination is better than knowledge. Albert Einstein said it, Bill Gates said it, Steve Jobs said it, Forrest Fenn said it and VGBOSS says it. Oh and with a side order of faith/confidence. KYM I’m thinking hard for that is what Mr. Fenn has said to do…He said “one has to really think”. Many are not really thinking. They are just printing the poem without giving it any thought, buying the book without reading it several times and jumping in the car/truck and heading out to the mountains. SO YES KYM; LOTS OF IMAGINATION MUST BE USED!

  39. Hello All,

    Just to add, and maybe its been said. “no place for the meek” could be a reference to the name of the place. Like cimmaron meaning wild and rowdy or, for example, something like devils creek.

    Seeing how an old man or child could go there leads me to believe this.

  40. A thought on the “not far,but too far to walk”
    100 isn’t far but its too far to walk if those feet are vertical.
    This must mean you need to go to the canyon floor from the home of Brown.
    Perhaps why the about canyon down is in there.

    The first 99 feet would be easy but the 100th could be painful

    • Dave
      Makes sense! If you are at the correct spot to begin, the next spot isn’t far away “as the crow flies”, but you need to get there by driving. Winding down a canyon road would certainly be too far too walk. I believe it is a fact that he Forest did drive the treasure there in a car.
      Glad you started a new thread!

      • did he use a car or a 4wd??? i’ve seen alot of 4wd trails in the mountains. that question’s been stuck in my head for a while now.. dal, does forrest own a jeep? 🙂

  41. I agree with you Dal cool video. Exactly what Mr. Fenn wants to see going on throughout. There are many more videos out there. Hey Dal, just a suggestion…you should have a thread, within this blog, solely dedicated to videos of people who are video documenting their CHASE. Like I said there are many out there. Not everyone, on the Chase, is comes to this blog and even though there are many who do not everyone post their comments but there are many uploading videos! As I said just a suggestion.

  42. I will pose the following question to start the day off. Do you think that the clues in FF’s poem will endure time? When I first joined the chase I emailed FF with this question. I was unaware then that you are not supposed to ask him for more clues. Of course, I did not get a reply.

    Let’s say 1,000 years from now. i.e., A tree with a blaze mark would most likely not be around then.

    • I’m pretty sure they will. In fact I’m certain. He says no one will stumble upon it so the yes almost have to be good for that long. At least 100 years! It is possible the areas even if over taken by wildlife etc in 100 years will still be traceable if someone figures out the clues. Much like old ruins and sunken ships and old treasure fables are traceable. There’s a lot of unfounded treasure out there still from the 1800s!

    • I tend to lean that way….that the clues in the poem indicate some permanence beyond that of a tree, especially given that Forrest has mentioned that he thought the treasure wouldn’t be found for a 1000 years, and “he thought of everything”. Thus, Forrest’s blaze and other indicators would suggest some kind of permanence even though mother nature could certainly change that over eons…..or….in a blast.

      • If I were to hide treasure for others to find and make it a bit more difficult, I would have at least one stage where several places nearby neatly fit the clues. For a simple example, Flames steakhouse, Old flameful, Flaming Gorge, casa de fuego etc.

    • This is what I think for what it’s worth. I don’t believe Forrest ever said that the clues will hold up for a thousand years. I think he said he’s ambivalent as to if it’s found now or in a thousand years. Have you ever heard a politician not answer a question or seen a magician use a sleight of hands during a trick? The politician can be asked a question and give you an answer that you “think” is the answer….but when you really break down what was said….it’s not what you thought you heard. As for the magician….I’ve always thought that when Forrest said north of Santa Fe, that he could have used Santa Fe as a sleight of hand. You hear Santa Fe and believe it’s in NM. I do believe the clues will match up to things that are likely to be around for a while…but I’m not discounting that a tree isn’t involved in either the secreted place of the blaze.

      • LOL….Stephi, politicians are definitely adept at the circular argument and failing to answer questions. Usually, they begin by thanking you for the question then proceed to go around in circles talking about things in such a manner and for such a length of time that by the time they are done answering you forgot the question….which, btw, they had never answered.

        • I meant to add that I’m not comparing him to one….just that he has the understanding of how they communicate.

          Sent from my Samsung Galaxy™ S II 4GTHRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

    • You might solve the Poem, but solving it is only the beginning of the actual real Chase. The Poem, when solved, will give you a location…go here, go there, turn here, turn there, up there, down here, move this, move that, lift this, lift that, etc… So in my knucklehead opinion I believe the Poem is but only the first step of getting to Mr. Fenn’s treasure trove, for the Poem is only the first step of many more to go to get to the trove. It’s like reading the poem for the first time, then trying to solve it, but then you realize it is not enough and realize you need the book, then you purchase the book and read it 19 or more times then it dawns on you that you need to do more research besides just the poem and the book and start watching videos in search of more clues by Mr. Fenn but once again you realize the videos are not enough and more must be done and so you begin to visit blogs in search of clues but instead end up meeting interesting people while interacting within the blogs and feel the need to email particular people with a desire to exchange ideas, forming groups/teams to search for the trove, etc… THE THRILL OF THE CHASE.

  43. I don’t keep up with this blog enough to tell if this issue has been settled, but every so often I see people arguing what “in the wood” must mean. Just a heads up, I don’t think it has much to do with actually finding the treasure. The phrase comes from an old children’s story, “Babes in the wood”. In the story, two children are abandoned in the woods…bla bla bla , they die. The phrase “in the wood”, became an expression for, as wikipedia would put it, “inexperienced innocents entering unawares into any potentially dangerous or hostile situation”. So I don’t think this statement at the end is really worth much, unless you take into account the hostile nature of the rocky mountain environment. Also, “i give you title to the gold” is a legal requirement, dependent on abandonment laws in whichever state he hid it in. Don’t think it would be much of an issue with Forrest, but I would hesitate telling any federal authorities where you found the chest .

    p.s. you might want to tell them you found it on top of the land… (finder’s law)

    • A very interesting “in the wood” thought given that trees might not last the test of time exposing any chest hidden in them. But don’t forests last through the centuries? So if you have braved going out into the forest, you could be where the chest is. After all FF’s first name is Forrest. I’m sure there are many other thoughts on this, i.e., like being in an abandoned wood mill. I don’t recommend giving “in the wood” up as a potential clue. You do have all the previous clues in the poem to get through first.

      I believe, not positive, that abandonment laws allows the owner to reclaim his/her abandoned property for some limited time after it is found and advertised as being found. So, if National Park/Forest Rangers took custody of the chest, FF might well be able to take it back from them. I agree that buried treasure could present more ownership problems for the finder than surface treasures. Is a chest under a pile of rocks buried? Is a chest in a cave buried?

      Having worked for a government and knowing that it is not that simple to sell a significant amount of gold without a government finding out about the transaction, I just can’t visualize a scenario as yet where the finder is not going to have legal problems to face. At the very least, IRS will want its cut.

      • I’m curious how long a tree lasts. Forrest has said that he’s concerned about a forest fire. Wouldn’t he only be concerned about that if there was a tree involved? Also, when a tree dies…it doesn’t disappear…right? It stays there a while before rotting. Is there a horticulturist in the house? As for getting title from the government…I’m confused why people think since the government if they find out about it won’t let you keep it…why would a private owner be any different? I believe no matter where it is…you have to go in peace or someone’s gong to want to claim ownership to it if they can. I personally think the only way someone will get around paying taxes on this is if they some how barter people’s services or try and sell off small amounts at coin shows etc. I’ve talked about skirting the tax idea…but I’m not so sure I want to live with the fear of tax evasion.

        • Depends on the type of tree. There are oaks, elms and firs that live for centuries. Around the Great Lakes there are still tree lobs (blazes) that can be seen from a canoe that were left by the original Voyageurs who trapped, fished and hunted as they carved their way through the Great lakes opening up trade routes. Aspen trees, poplars, birch don’t live as long in the northern reaches, but propagate enough to keep the trees growing in the same spot, They tend to grow fast, tall and spindly causing them to sway and often break into widow makers. It doesn’t take long for an aspen tree or poplar to reach amazing heights, but their thinner trunks leave them victims of strong storms, high winds and bad weather. I’ve seen olive trees in Greece that were still producing fruit after 3000 years. Then again, I’ve seen 110 mile straight winds take down 200 year old oak trees in a second. When Mother Nature yawns…watch out.

        • I haven’t heard Forrest say he was “worried” about anything concerning the chest. When asked by any number of interviewers if exposure to the weather over a long period of time would be a problem for the items inside the chest, Forrest has responded with something like:

          -No, the chest is made of bronze and the items inside are mostly gold, silver and gems. I sealed the olive jar with wax to keep it’s contents dry. I put (one of the items) in a plastic bag because it contains ferrous metal. However, certainly, natural disasters like earthquakes, fires and floods can have an effect on the chest.-

          This is not a quote…just the general gist. So he is not “worried” about anything and he doesn’t point out fire as being anymore of an issue than any other natural phenomena. It also seems like he was talking about the chest. Not the blaze. I don’t know that he has ever talked about the fragility of the blaze.

      • I read in one set of park rules (believe it was YNP) that the abandoned property clause covers 90 days. As to selling gold on the market. My experience has been that you must SIGN a document attesting to the fact that the gold is your property to sell. The traded amount and pay out is recorded and filed in case the feds ever decide to complete an audit on transactions. That’s what we had to do when we sold gold and it wasn’t even a huge amount. One was under $400.00 and the other was under $9000.00. The cache included old jewelry, gold ingot, necklaces, earrings, rings. The items were liquidated for estate purposes.

    • I agree that it is a subtle clue and talking about a forest. Even if the trees are destroyed by fire, the forest will regrow over time. I’m guessing it would be in a protected area from building/developing, so only natural disasters are the concern. (like a National Park) Once you have started on the right path, “warm waters” “canyon down”, etc… I think “in the wood” will be another way to help justify that you are on the right trail. I’m sure there is a reason he used “wood” as singular since most people say in the woods when referring to a forest or treed area.
      As for the “title” part of the poem, I think that will be explained once you open the box. I would imagine Forest left some sort of note in the box to explain the treasure or congratulate whoever found it. I know if I thought a person would find it in 100 or 1000 years, I would certainly leave some sort of documentation inside as to who put this there and a bit of the history. Maybe a way to let the lucky person know that it now belongs to him/her.
      I would only be concerned about that part if I actually found the chest! 🙂

    • I love your definition of “in the wood” and I agree with it. The only thing I might disagree with is the finder law if you state you found it ON the ground. I don’t think they’ll buy it. I’m still running and yelling BEAR! BEAR!

  44. Okay, let’s try this.

    My understanding is that after FF beat cancer he changed his poem. The poem at one time read:

    “Then take the chest and leave my bones.”

    Implies to me that his bones and the chest would be where wildlife scavengers (wolves, coyotes, certain birds) could not reach them? But, he might have selected a new location after being cured and before releasing the revised poem as it exists.

    Any different thoughts?

    • @Dollarbill
      I missed the part about the document. I know that I would certainly want to make it known in the future as to who is responsible for the treasure.
      If that old line ended with “leave my bones” then another line must have been changed so it still rhymed back then. Hummmmmm….. What would’ve rhymed with bones to give us another clue?
      Oh, what if he would’ve placed himself (based on what you said his original plans were) in some sort of wooden coffin (or enclosure of some sort), if you “were brave” and opened the coffin to see “in the wood”, then that’s where you would find the treasure. (?) Just take his chest and leave his bones.
      Too many “what ifs”?

      • Oakleygirl
        So my first quess and remember when you quess that probably may be the answer but what I think ryhmes with bones is cones like in volcanic cider cones?
        Do you my driff griff on cones?

      • oakleygirl, I like the wooden box idea, but, if he was far enough along to think that his time was near, would he be able to take a trip to his hiding place, get inside his wood, then lay there and wait? I think that he would need a better plan or else he would go nuts while he waited. At least, I would go nuts and possibly change my mind about the whole thing.

      • I think he’d look awfully suspicious dragging a wooden coffin into the wilderness anyway! 🙂 But maybe the chest is in something that would be tomb-like. (a pile of logs/wood, pile of stones) Stones would’ve rhymed with bones. Not necessarily buried, but stuff stacked around it that you would have to be “brave” enough to disturb or get into.
        You said that he changed his plans, so that train of thought has passed.

      • I didn’t get far enough on the wooden box concept to question how it got to FF’s hiding place. I’m glad you snuffed that fire out quickly. But you just had to throw stones into the mix, didn’t you. Well let’s see. The stones must have been there because he wouldn’t have carried them in, I don’t think. There, solved that part of the stone theory. Now, he wouldn’t bury himself in stones because he would have an arm left hanging out. Stoning himself into a cave type enclosure is certainly a possibility and would qualify as a blaze too. But more likely a stone enclosed tomb below a blaze is the call. Hummmm!

        Some believe that FF still plans on using the hiding place for resting his bones.

        I like the stone theory. It would fit if you were hiking up a stony dry creek, too. Keeping in mind that dry creeks are subject to flash flooding.

      • if you’ve been wise and found the blaze

        look quickly down for the pile of stones

        but tarry scant with marvel gaze

        just take the chest and leave my bones

        ( … i like it)

      • Dollarbill and Chris
        We are going to get ourselves into trouble rewriting our own version! 🙂
        I had to laugh at the image of FF trying to bury himself in stones though. No offense to Forest!!!!
        I was thinking some large rocks naturally stacked with an opening would keep the chest safe and would probably stand the test of time. If it were interesting or unique enough it could represent the blaze as well.
        I think others are afraid to jump in on our ideas! 🙂

      • Dollarbill and Chris
        We could get into trouble rewriting our own version of the poem!
        However, I had to laugh at the thought of FF trying to bury himself in stones. (no offense Forest!)
        Putting the chest in a pile of rocks or crevice would give the chest some protection from the elements, still hide it and, be considered not buried. If it were interesting or unique enough in the formation then that may be the blaze,too.
        Maybe he found a place that still has enough room for him to wiggle into if he changes his mind. 🙂

      • Sorry, I must’ve entered the comment before I changed the wording to make better sense! Time to stop posting for me!
        Sorry Dal!!

      • oakleygirl & Chris:

        Two things:

        1) I am glad oakley got a good laugh. I too had a good laugh visualizing FF lugging a long wooden box to his hiding place. As with oakleygirl, no offence FF.

        2) Now that we have solved this part of the riddle, at least for now, maybe we can exploit our dumb luck and solve another part.

  45. Forrest said he was ambivalent about the treasure being found a 100 or a 1000 years from now but, like Stephanie said, he never mentioned or insinuated the clues would still hold up. Now I do think some of them will but maybe not all. As far as the blaze is concerned, the way it’s worded in the poem, the blaze could also be in the poem itself… If you’ve been wise and figured out the poem thus far as well as found the blaze.

  46. dollarbill,

    If someone is fortunate enough to find the treasure, I believe the find would fall under the gift tax laws of the IRS because Forrest states emphatically “I give” you title to the gold. I am no expert but I believe this means that the recipient of the gift would not incur any tax. Forrest however, would have to have his taxable estate transfer exemption of $ 5 million (same for everyone) reduced by the value of the gift. Probably no need to worry about it though since Forrest and the rest of us will likely be long gone by the time it is found.

    • Interesting thought on gift tax. I will look into it (Google), one of these days.

      Even though I have a strong belief where FF placed the chest, I do more strongly agree with your long gone theory.

    • I think you can gift about $14K without the recipient having to pay tax but over that I think it is taxed as ordinary income. I believe an inheritance of up to about $5Million is exempt from tax. The laws change so much though, so I’m probably way off. 😀

  47. Remember the story about Forrest having started a ball of yarn? That’s what this is, all the string ties into one another, link upon link, until it gets bigger and bigger.

    I bet his Mom threw it out so now, he is starting another one. Except like Mark Twain and Jack Nairn, in story. Even pics he sends don’t seem like clues until you unravel the string. It ALL ties together. We just need to figure out the first yarn darn piece! lol

  48. there is even a Ruth Tucker Brown who is an artist that lives in Raton, NM. Canadian River is nearby. as well as the much spoken about Dry Cimmaron areas.

  49. the ‘blaze’ could even be the wagons that they unloaded on the ols Santa Fe trail and burned to avoid paying the taxes, while they loaded up the larger wagons, used to be called prairie schooners , AKA, ” The ships of the desert.” 🙂

    • The daughters of the american revolution have put many special sft markers on the trail. Fun to google images.

      Sent from my Samsung Galaxy™ S II 4GTHRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

  50. oh yea, steph, i heard about them in Utopia, Tx. Daughters of the revolution. We used to live there and it so small you can drive by and blink and miss it. Lots of history there too. 🙂

    • Dang, I don’t have my book yet to look at that. I wonder how many “subtle” clues I’m missing out on because my book is on back-order. 🙁

  51. Hi Windsurfer
    Will you kindly try and contact me? I’m not sure of the process. I have been fairly quiet, but I left several comments on the March 11 blog—March 15 at 4:14 and March 16 at 7:43. I think we should chat and compare notes. Thank you.

    • Herman 1,

      Saw your note about the letterbox…how dissappointing…similar to the dirt road I took, but I expect many more failures along with the rest of the crowd. Not sure I have anything to offer you. Since all you found were a bunch of notes and a letterbox, would you be willing to share here the general vicinity(state, region) where it was? What exactly is a letterbox? Was it like the chest?

      I am headed out skiing over spring break so I will not be around until later next week. Until then I am jumping off this bandwagon, but it you can hint regarding the location of the letterbox, might help me to see if I have anything to offer you. I am pretty well goobered at this point and need some fresh air.

  52. ok I will take my leave. given help, not wanted and clues forgone. If I find treasure, I will take it to Fenn. 🙂 Happy Hunting All. Thanks for the brain stimulation, it’s been a long time. 🙂

    • Kym, a superb idea for anyone who finds the chest before FF takes his leave. You could work away out so that you could keep the treasure with the fewest problems associated with finding it.

  53. Question for Dal and other seasoned Thrill Chasers. I’m trying to consolidate and integrate all the clues and a couple of them conflict. Mr. Fenn has said that the treasure is in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe. However, there is a report that he told a close friend that he was worried about people finding his car if he were to go to die where he buried it and he let it slip that his car might be found in the parking lot at North Arizona University. Is this just a rumor? How do you put this in the mix?

    • Here’s some more info to add to that remark-

      It’s attributed to Forrest’s friend Doug Preston via a report put together by Tony Dokoupil for Newsweek. In my opinion everything Dokoupil claims is questionable. Remember, this is the guy who reported that Forrest sleeps in the nude. He’s a highly paid sensationalist. better that he should write for National Enquirer than Newsweek.

      So..according to Dokoupil this conversation was about where Forrest might leave his car when he was thinking about dying with his hidden chest. After Dokoupil garnered this piece of information he went out and looked in Yellowstone…so apparently even Dokoupil didn’t believe it…or maybe he never heard it in the first place. I would be surprised to hear that Preston actually told Dokoupil that…and if he did what the conversation was really about…Forrest was mighty unhappy with Dokoupil’s story because he felt he had spent a lot of time with him and Dokoupil turned around and made things up and took sentences out of context..For awhile after that story Forrest refused to do anything more with the media. Since then he has met some respectable and ethical folk who have written very honest pieces about Forrest and the hunt.

      Finally, I asked Forrest about that remark last year and he not only didn’t remember saying anything like that, he also said he wouldn’t say anything like that…

      So…

      Two take-a-ways:
      1. Don’t invite Tony to your news worthy event
      2. The whole quote is riddled with unanswerable questions and should be buried more than 3 feet down so the metal detectors can’t find it…

      dal…

    • Dal, Thank you for the detailed explanation. I though I should check it out before booking a trip to Arizona. I had it pegged with a place that met all the clues. Oh well, back to the drawing board!

  54. Hi Windsurfer,
    After I found the box, Forrest sent me a second email telling me that I was in the wrong spot. His email seemed emphatic and I got the impression that he wanted me to drop it. He didn’t use those words, but that is what I think he meant. He said he was sorry that I was in the wrong spot. I am glad to drop it and said as much publicly in my second note. The notes in the box did not mention the treasure and I do not want to violate anyone’s privacy. I cannot speak for Forrest and can only give you an impression. I guess I was in the wrong spot. I accept that as a fact. I do not want to discuss the location of my search or yours. I did not have the handwriting analyzed by an expert, so I cannot be certain that it belonged to Forrest. If it was Forrest’s handwriting, I am probably the only person to have found something on this search that was actually touched by Forrest. Again, I cannot confirm the FF initials were from Forrest I am merely speculating. As for speaking with you Windsurfer, I am more interested in an intellectual discussion of the matter. I live in Dallas but have a second home near a ski resort and was there last week. You seem intelligent. I studied at The Kennedy School of Govt. at Harvard where I fine tuned my thinking skills. I love the mountains and find this whole thing fun. For me it is not the money, but the challenge. I have done fairly well in business and am mostly motivated by the thrill. It would be nice to find the dough but there is much more to it than that. I would like to speak with you on a conceptual basis–a good exchange of ideas and theories. I don’t trust easily and am sure you feel the same way. Thanks a million.

    • Hey Herman 1,
      I appreciate the thoughtful response and I too am most interested in the puzzle of it all…just love the challenge. I have but one more spot to check that I think might be viable. I hope to get to it in the coming weeks but the weather is still problematic….so I am going skiing for a brief break then I will return to being an analytical nutcase and send you a note via the blog in a couple weeks. I really am just about at the end of my wits on this though so don’t hold out too much hope for me.

      At least you actually found something. Maybe Forrest new where we would likely go so he put a few crumbs out there just to play with our heads. Who knows I plan to ski in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe so maybe I can find some treasure.

      You know what they say..if you find what you are searching for, it will be found in the last place you look for it.

      • If by treasure you mean a 9 dollar cup of hot chocolate on the mountain at Vail………..you’re in luck. Just playing, have fun.

  55. Anyone in here done reading Mr. Fenn’s Thrill of the Chase “Memoir” book and willing to sell that used book to me for $10? I’ll pay shipping and handling charges. Thanks!

    • Dazed-
      I think Old Jules and his RV vacated TX for the peace of the mountains a few days ago. I don’t know if we’ll hear from him for awhile.

  56. Before my old mind forgets i wanted to ask everyone. Has the secret place ever been compared to a bank vault in terms of having to be there at a specific time with the proper combination and only being allotted a certain amount of tries/time ?

    • I vaguely remember reading that Forrest said it wasn’t in A TREE but in THE TREES. I may be misremembering the comment though, so correct me if I’m wrong. I never say any reference to a time or combination though.

    • Yeah I wrote a blog on _http://whatsablaze.wordpress.com/_ (http://whatsablaze.wordpress.com/) for my idea on it being in a safety deposit box a while ago, but I think I’ve since deleted it. I realized that there were banks once called “The Mountains” that were a commercial bank. One was in Los Alamos, and one in Santa Fe….and one in Espanola I think too. He said how he loved Monopoly and loved making his money. He mentioned “unlocking” the clues as well as using the word “vault”. I also thought he put his email in the book for the reason of telling him that you figured out the clues and he would take you to the safety deposit box if you told him all the clues. I also thought that the vault might be a columbarium in a cemetery and the same thing…if you told him, he’d have it opened for you. I also thought what a surprise if he passed that it was opened up and found. I tell myself the best stories to get these solutions. I couldn’t make anything work though…

  57. TY CJ : ). I was mainly referring to everyone hot on this trail. I’ve put a lot of effort into a theory and was curious if anyone else has done the same.

  58. I think it is interesting that the “Begin it where warm waters halt” line can be completely flipped by substituting the synonyms found in any dictionary. Change “warm” to “melt”, and “halt” to “stand”. This then leaves you with the line “Begin it where the melt waters stand”, which would quite logically point to a higher altitude lake fed by melting snow, many of these types could be found rockies. I would also interpret the “Put in below the home of Brown” is pointing to the collegiate mountains south of Aspen, it is interesting that there is no mountain named Mt. Brown but there is one called Maroon Bell which is extremely close to the Native American/ Spanish word for Brown – “Marroon”. Just my thoughts.

  59. Stephanie i thank you for the response. The stubborn man that i am i have worked on the very thing we speak of for a month and found the process. The problem i have now is i’m still spinning the dial trying to get the numbers in order to unlock the vault. I assure you there is an answer so don”t abandon the vault theory. My heart tells me to slide you the card you need under the table : ).

    • aww, too sweet. I’ve moved on to libraries though lol. I need to blog about more failed searches.

      Sent from my Samsung Galaxy™ S II 4GTHRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

  60. Hi Mark
    I grew up as a kid going to Aspen and Maroon Bells. Maroon Bells Lake is incredible and I have seen the Milky Way reflecting off that lake at night. A beautiful spot. I met Billy Kidd in Aspen when I was 11 years old and have considered property in the area. For some reason, I don’t see Forest hiding it there.

    • The pictures i see on google earth definitely look amazing and cold. Having moved to Florida from the north several years back I can’t see myself freezing my a** off in the mountains searching but I could still play armchair detective.

    • Hi Herman – thank you for jogging my memory about a trip to Aspen in June/July 20 years ago and an awesome hike to that very same lake. The reflection of the mountains on the water and the little stream that leads into it. So awesome! That was a treasure.

  61. OK….. here I am, going through the poem, finding the clues and the blaze (which seems logical to me) then now I “THINK” , FF, wants me to go on the same journey, again, as to His poem, (same path) but not the first way I got there., somewhat, just beyond that point. Did FF say at some point he took two trips? Is that what we are to do? Wasn’t there an article about Winston Churchill, something about, a riddle, within a riddle within a ? something like that? Just keep going until you find “it”. Sorry, just trying to “THINK” like Mr. FF. My daughter thinks I should be wearing a “tin cap” soon. Good luck everyone!!!!

  62. Check out the Tshirt that my friend created. Oh and he did it just for fun. He is not selling them so don’t get all bent out of shape or ask me for his cell number. He did this in hopes that Mr. Fenn comes out with his own line cause he says he would make purchases and that he’s sure that the money would go to fight cancer. Personally I too would buy some Fenn Apparel. http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/7758/fennob.jpg

    • Great shirt, Forrest should definitely get some shirts made. He could raise even more money for his cancer surgery cause.

  63. I flew over the snow capped Colorado Rocky Mountains yesterday. At 22,000 plus feet a car is less than an ant. Talk about a needle in a hay stack, magnetic or not!

    • LOL…John Paul! Yup….it’s a lot different from looking at a topo map then getting those boots on the ground. Everything is so much bigger and vast when you are actually there.

  64. Each state will vary in law of treasure trove. All property in the United States is owned privately, federally, or by the state.

    Is this lost or abandoned property, hidden to retrieve later?

    There are two options that I see since I don’t think this will be on private land. Turn into the local sheriff department as being found, with the name of the owner who can either pick it up or leave to the person who found it. Return the box to Forrest Fenn and he gives it back to you.

    There is one other thing to this, the part where he gives title to the person who finds it. I am not sure about the legal issues that will arise from this.

    I am sure he spent plenty of time making sure you would have legal claim if you found it, but then again I have been wrong before. Or never say a word about it to anyone.

    There is case law concerning these matters, just look it up. Remember each state will be different in the laws. Trespassing means the person who found it gives up their rights to the treasure.

    Then you have the Antiquities Act of 1906.

    • Your response is the most interesting that I’ve read on this subject. I’m not sure why so many want to deny the idea it would be on federal/state land…unless maybe they don’t want people looking there lol. It is interesting to look at different states though and that maybe one of them would totally give you title without any problems. I still believe though strongly that he’s saying go in peace, so the powers that be(whoever they are) don’t take it from you.

    • Federal law doesn’t always supersede state law, it all depends on the law and the constitution. Some things the state regulates and some the federal government. Like right now Utah is fighting the federal government concerning land trusts, they are not the owners of the land, just the caretaker of it for the state. They have not done what was required under the agreement, now Utah is trying to take control of the lands the federal government was entrusted to them for the future generations of the state.

      • In the areas of NA antiquities, the federal law is pretty clear. State laws are pretty much the same and can include their percentage of a take regarding some areas of discovery as sucken ships and found sea treasure. Native American artifacts, burial grounds, etc., over all are strictly covered in the federal act. NA’s won’t pick up such artifacts because they believe that the items will be cursed by the spirits for disturbing the dead. The notion that picking up artifacts ie, collecting, is an age old hobby doesn’t fly in a federal court of law either. As I’ve often been told, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

    • With regard to title of the treasure, I had a somewhat similar experience where my wife found a loose diamond gemstone the size of a dime on public ground. After taking it to a local jewelry store and validating its authenticity, morality got the best of me and I went to the police station.

      It was logged as lost property and the owner had 90 days to claim it, after which time we would have been allowed to take legal ownership of it. There was a laser etched serial number on the diamond, and the owner had to show proof of ownership prior to claiming it.

      An analogy for the Fenn treasure would be something in the chest of which only Forrest could prove ownership. If you found it and turned it in to law enforcement as lost property, Forrest could simply do nothing, and after 90 days the treasure would be legally yours.

  65. windsurfer,
    I understand. Best of luck to you. I don’t want to have a public conversation–please enjoy that ski trip. I was really hoping to discuss riddle construction and behavioral theory and not specific locations. My family’s recent ski trip to the Rocky Mountains was fun but slushy. All the best.

  66. Has anyone searched Crystal Falls? When I say searched I mean searched like for atleast 9 to 10 days not just a search for a few hours! Really thorough! Check this out… http://edhallimages.com/mountain/Crystal%20Mill-CO.jpg (There’s a Brown Cabin here along with a ladder, of sorts, just like the ladders on Mr. Fenn’s bronze Romanesque lock box which has many ladders on all sides and check out the trees!) Here’s another great place… http://nationalparklover.com/images/wyoming-montana/Yellowstone/gibbon_falls.jpg (Has anyone searched there, a good search?)

    • VG-
      It would be much more useful to searchers if you developed a line of reasoning about WHY Crystal Falls or Gibbon Falls are good places. We all have pretty places or places we think might be interesting to look at in the Mountains North of Santa Fe. The trick is not in coming up with interesting places. The trick is in finding where warm waters halt and then figuring out how to take the canyon down…etc etc.until you end up somewhere worth exploring. To just toss out (interesting) areas is neither responsible nor helpful. It just adds to the circle of confusion that many beginning searchers are trapped in.

      • Speaking of canyon down…I think that might be a clue in that your going to a lower elevation most likely which might be helpful in the direction of your clues. Then again maybe it’s just something like going down the street…but still might be an interesting tool.

      • I’ve also considered Canyon down as in South…because when you orient a map North up…which is typically how they are intended to be viewed…North is up and South is down..

        Take for instance the main drag in West Yellowstone. It’s name is Canyon Street. It runs north/south through West Yellowstone. If one were to be looking at Canyon Street as the possible place that Forrest is talking about when he say’s “Take it in the canyon down”..Then you could consider heading “down” or South on Canyon to it’s end and the NFS boundary…
        But a person could also consider going the opposite direction since Canyon Street goes “downhill” toward the Madison River..
        Of course downstream if you were following a canyon with a stream in it… But if the canyon is oriented north/south and the stream is running north than you might also consider exploring south…because south is downward on the map…

        There was a discussion earlier about the various meanings of “it” in the poem. In this case it means whatever you are following. If you are following Canyon Street south…or down on a map then “it’ is the street…
        I don’t think it’s rocket science or crystal gazing…just common sense…
        Don’t sweat the “it”. Instead concentrate on the “canyon”..

      • Have to differ with you on this one Dal, I think the “it” might be something. What are you taking in the canyon and how are you going down? Just throwing some questions out there that I too have no answers for. There can be a lot of substance in pronouns sometimes. Maybe just the teacher in me talking. If you knew what you were taking down you might find the right canyon? There are just a few of those in the rockies, eh? There might be something to the elevation thing Stephanie. I think numbers come into play. Just sayin’

        • I’m late to the party on the IT conversation….but is it insinuating that IT means he might have taken another means besides his car to the location as in a boat or raft? I don’t see how he’d get back to his car if that was the case.

      • Hank-
        In my opinion its just plain ridiculous to even have this conversation. Follow the clues. There is no question EVER in what “it” is in my mind…not once..not ever…and talking about it is like talking about how many angels will fit on the head of a pin…That question is no more appropriate to living my life than fixating on the word “it” in Forrest’s poem.

      • OK, noted Dal, but it can’t be the most ridiculous idea you have heard yet has it? Or can I take that crown? My box is small and I am way, way outside of it at this point (pun intended), I should probably jump back into one of those canyons now. I probably need to leave it alone for a while, and just get outside I guess.

      • Dal,
        I’ve got it, IT is code name for a parachute. You eject yourself like Forrest did twice except this time its off the edge of a canyon. Not far but to far to walk. LOL, thought we might need some humor with this last string. Okay back to real business of trying to follow the clues.

      • I have to agree with Hank. The word “it” is thought provoking and I am a bit surprised at Dal’s commenting that it is ridiculous to even be talking about “it”. If there is no question EVER in what “it” is please enlighten us. I don’t like missing the obvious.

        • I don’t know what the issue was with the IT…but did make me think about IT….in that IT could be at a place where they do white water rafting…even if it’s not Forrest who jumped in the boat. I mean maybe IT doesn’t mean anything…but I thought the idea of IT meaning something was something I hadn’t heard before. Hope that made sense. Just reread that and IT really didn’t lol.

      • I wouldn’t read too much into the word it. However, poetically it is a beautiful word to use metaphorically. Begin it, and take it – begin and take what? The journey, the quest, life’s adventure, the thrill of the chase, a stream, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream. It is a powerful word to use in this poem but in terms of clues I don’t see value in “it”, only in the poetics.

    • Didn’t Forrest say recently in an article or interview that nobody has found the treasure yet? How does he know that? How does he know that someone did not find it but decided to keep it a secret? He would not risk returning to the site with so many people out looking so that is not a possibility. Two thoughts – one is the entire treasure was not stashed and part of possessing it requires you to contact Forest (or his estate?) so if he has not been contacted he knows that nobody has found it OR two the treasure is in a safe deposit box and what was stashed was a key to unlock it. He could go and check on the safe deposit box without anyone being suspicious. Thoughts?

      • Or he has a tracking device with it, or he has a camera pointed at it which doesn’t have to mean he put the camera there…it could be one that just happens to be there as you can find cameras all over the world these days. He said in his memoir that no one else knows…but maybe that’s not true and he has someone check on it. Maybe it is in a place where he has to fly there and his stalkers aren’t pilots. Maybe it’s in a place where he can take a train or car or plane and see it from the vehicle. He might need a magnify glass from the air….Those are my ideas.

      • Forrest has said that he went to the spot with a forty pound chest, so it is physicaly there.
        Maybe in the jar with his biography he left a note asking the finder to E-mail him a code phrase that would confirm the chest has been found.

      • exactly dave.. there is no reason for anyone to think the treasure isnt in the wood.. it is! and as far as what “it” is, it’s the “chase” … jmho

  67. Hey folks…a quick offer. I live in Santa Fe, have read Forrest’s book (very good), and have spent a lot of time on the poem. However, my mind still spins as to location. For those of you who can’t get here to look, and have good ideas to share, perhaps we can work together, my offer is to split the treasure by 3…with 1/3rd staying in place for others to find.. Email me at RelaxInSantaFe@gmail.com. (Dal, sorry for posting this in more than one thread…just wanna make sure it gets out there of course, not sure how to best do that.)

      • I’ve thought that worth the cold could mean your up north….and that NM has been over searched…but Santa Fe is such an awesome town. Ever hear about the guy who’s looking for the quarter in the light even though he lost it over in the dark….but he can see better there that’s why he’s looking there. That may just be my philosophy when it comes to searching…go where the fun is lol.

      • so did the guy ever find the quarter? I think he would have a better chance of finding the quarter in the light than someone would have of finding the chest in NM, because even tho he lost it in the dark, quarters can bounce or roll pretty far from where they land. on the other hand a 40 pound chest will pretty much stay where you put it.

        • LOL I don’t think he found the quarter…I think he might have been a cartoon that I saw 40 years ago…so he probably just got erased. Are we sure bronze can’t bounce? Maybe it’s not actually where he left it…hmmm.

  68. have any of you nm residents or out of state explorers ever had to aquire a GAIN permit ?? (GAIN ACCESS INTO NATURE) if so how did you go about it?

      • ty stephanie… hadnt seen a requirement like that until today, when i was exploring/researching a wilderness area.. do you know whether forrest owns a 4 wd?

        • No I don’t know if he owns a 4WD. I think he talks in his book about taking forest roads…and I know after going on many of them during the search…that it would be advisable to have one. I saw the vehicles he had, but didn’t pay attention to that type of thing…and he might have others that weren’t there…so I don’t know. Sorry that’s not helpful.

      • Casey
        I live in New mexico and have obtained a gain permit and anyone can obtain a gain permit online or by going to a local sporting goods store that sells fishing licenses.
        They all sell them but the clerk may not know what it is since they do not sell many of the gain permits but they do so ask to look on the form the same as a fishing license.
        If you are thinking of using it to go up Lost Creek falls in the Cimarron canyon I can save you the permit cost and tell you the treasure is most unlikely not to be there since 3 of us already searched it pretty heavily. It was pretty dangerous place to be in my opinion and after going in there boldly, I came out battered and bruised, and I do not ever want to go back in there again. I saw an area there scattered with fresh elk bones still with blood on them and I was wondering if I would end up with the same fate. I kept loudly singing Good Ole Mountain Dew at the top of my lungs during the 3 mile trek in and out of that area hoping it would keep the mountain lion or bear that ate that elk the day before away with my terrible singing, it worked. We thought that maybe Forrest could have gone in once but not twice or not at all.
        So if you go in places like this please use a GPS and mark your car as the starting way point to get you back out. We use a GPS not only for that but we put in the location where we are going and it tells us how far we still have left to go. So it was 1.5 miles to the waterfall and you would think like okay that should take an hour, It took 3 almost cause there is no trail, elk trails but no easy path.
        We had to bushwack our way through several spots with our machetes.
        I have hiked and camped outdoors may times but I am no expect but I just had the willies and creepy feelling the whole time I was in there, I even hate to think about it even now.
        Okay so maybe you think I am lying and I am trying to keep you away from there but I am not, do it and let me know if I am a baby or not.
        Good Luck and use a GPS, if not then do not go very far away from the creek. Also a flashlight and sandwich is a requirement.
        I know this long but also another thing we do to keep safe is always tell someone where you going, we also leave a note on the dash of the car with the current date on it saying “Went up to Lost Creek Falls. The reason being is that the ranger will notice your car and if it is still there the next day or two after that will be strange then they at least know where you might be if they need to look for you.
        One of us could have easily broken a leg climbing over dead trees and we would of had a hard time getting that person out, so be safe and that was very good thing of you asking about obtaing a gain permit.

        • Glad you guys are ok Tim. I hope everyone realizes that it shouldn’t be more than a mile off a road wherever it is. That’s just my opinion as Forrest has just said where a 79 or 80 year old has gone…but he’s also said that many have been within 500 feet…and I’d guess that not many go more than a mile in. Good examples of how to stay safe. I searched Cimarron a lot, and ironically that place was never on my list. There are many places in there that seem to match up. I found a hidden cache in the base of a hollow tree that’s near a hidden grave site there. If anyone goes there…try and find the hidden grave of Jessie….then look around at the base of the trees near him. Say hi for me too…miss the guy 😉

      • the mention of forest roads, is helpful i think.. i’m of the opinion now, that the treasure is in a very remote area ( brave,cold ,wood). difficult to get to, yet still accessible, but lightly traveled.. initially i liked the taos area(and still do like a couple of trails) but the more ive read the less i like… specifically being, its (possibly) too touristy, therefore, too traveled. and i must have a dozen places to search now, so i need a reason to weed some out!! 🙂

        • I’ve wanted to research Tesuque, but I don’t know if there’s really many places to go around there. I would imagine he would have gone alone there to do the foundry work and hang out with his friend he mentions there.

      • thats an incredible story tim, thanks for sharing.. believe me, i’m not takiing this adventure into the wilderness lightly.. i definitely have concerns.. appreciate your advice to.. heck ive even looked into the gun laws.. i’m not worried about people but like you said a hungry lion or bear!! i know bear spray is recommended but if the encounter is that close i’d feel much better with a gun.. a warning shot would probably be better than spray?? idk.. but anything you can share is appreciated

      • Another important thing when out and about in the woods is to know about, how to recognized and treat shock – in yourself and for others. Shock will deplete oxygen to your vital body organs. It can result in the shut down of vital bodily organs and death.

        • Good one John Paul
          Now some of you mybe thinking can we get off this safety thing but if someone dies or is injured trying to find the treasure to me its not worth it and if this helps prevent that I think it is just as important as trying to find it
          Just my take on it, I know most of you all know these things but is meant for people who haven’t or just needed to be reminded to keep safety first even in driving to find the chest please.

      • Ha ha Stephanie,

        I think death from shock may take a little longer. Shock is relative to the person but sometimes it doesn’t take much of a blow to cause it. The body takes over very quickly in cases like this to immobilize us and prevent more damage. We’d expect to be in control but we can very quickly lose control with shock.

        When i stumbled in the woods two weeks ago and smacked my head against a rock four times the size of my head, the first thing i did was check and see if i was going into shock. Once assured of not going into shock, i then stood up and took care of my head, trying to halt the warm water streaming from it. 😉

        If i had been going into shock . . .(witness rapid heart beat, light headed, panting, high anxiety etc . . .) i would have laid flat and raised my feet slightly in the air, taking deep, slow calm breathes while thinking positive calming thoughts until my breathing and heart beat stabilized, anxiety reduced and the light headedness had cleared.

        The thing was that i was alone out there. Fortunately, i ran across some rangers. I was eight hours away from any hospital or emergency care. So, no stitches and eventually a Harry Potter scar will be on my forehead as a thrill of the chase memento. 🙂

        So anyway… let’s be careful and be prepared. I climbed, very carefully, all over the place and ended up falling on the last step down from where i had been climbing. The road was right in front of me, the step was easy, i was cautious but to my surprise – i lost my footing.

        JP

        • Wow JP…that’s scary. Did you read Forrest’s memoir where he talks about going into shock when he ejected from his plane? Maybe he put that into the book in purpose, because we’ll go into shock seeing all that bright shiny stuff.

      • Stephanie, it was nerve rattling. I never hit anything that hard in my life.. i remember thinking this could be it. I do remember that from the book… interesting. He took a heck of a beating through the ejection and falling into the trees.

        I felt a little embarrassed talking about my fall but thought what the heck – i should let people know so they can think through these things and be careful. Maybe learn from my mistake instead of their own.

        Also, if anyone is putting in on a stream or river, hypothermia and heavy wet clothes are real. Wear a life vest – it will keep you above water. The first thing the body does when it hits 33 degree water is a big gasp for air – a reflex mechanism. If you are under water when that happens you fill up very quickly.
        jp

        • I think it’s so great that you shared. I think it can really help new searchers think before they take those last steps. Coming from Chicago…I had no clue about so many things around here. It’s such a different area than back home. I remember going to Soda Dam and just posing for some photos. When I showed someone on my facebook they were like Hey!! be careful where you stick your hands in areas like that…there could be snakes. We don’t have snakes that slithered between rocks back home. We have politicians that’s slither.

      • Haha, Stephanie,

        That is why they call it the Windy City! True story and not because of the wind. Chicago sent a bunch of lobbyist to Washington D.C. To lobby bring the world’s fair there. They huffed and puffed and blew so hard that the folks there started calling Chicago the Windy City.

        And those slithery snakes are everywhere. The funny thing is I hardly see them here except on TV. 😛

    • Lived here for 20+ years and never heard of it…never saw a sign saying I needed one…nothing…ever. Not sure what that says about me 🙂

  69. I have a new subject… not sure where to post this to ask. I’m hoping someone with a copy of Mr. Fenn’s book can answer this question. My book is still a week or two away. In the book (or excerpt on TOTC website) what is the illustration in the Epilogue about? It shows a man with an axe looking up at a bird nested on the crescent moon, while standing among tree trunks. It’s shown twice in the excerpt and may be one of those “scattered” clues. Does the book explain it?
    http://www.oldsantafetradingco.com/assets/book-previews/thrill-of-the-chase.pdf

    • When you read his stories he has a lot of things that seem a bit off. One being a story about the old biddies. I think the scattered clues are things that are more likely that he says Bronze is cold and the poem says worth the cold. So it might be that In the wood does have to do with a tree. He says his book really doesn’t have much to do with the treasure…it’s just the poem you should be paying attention to.

    • JD, it means that since that man chopped down all it’s habitat and nesting grounds then it had to ‘fly to the moon” to be able to have a place to call home. Thus just driving it farther. “TO THE MOON ALICE!!!” I’d tell him! LOL <~~ sorry just couldn't resist :)~

    • JD,

      If i remember correctly i believe that picture reflects another one in his book and looks very similar to it. Instead of sitting on a tombstone he is sitting on tree stump. In the book, when he, as a kid, would get a switching form his Dad he would run out at night and sit on a tombstone in a cemetery. He said it took a lot of courage to “go in there”.

      I don’t know if there is any meaning in the similarities or not. However, it does map to “no place for the meek”.

      JP

      • JP,

        I thought it an odd illustration because in Mr. Fenn’s blog is a story titled Treasures Galore in which he comments about it taking 80 acres of trees to print the Sunday edition of the New York Times. He writes that he’s angry and wants the publisher to print less about certain subjects that most people don’t care about.
        The publisher won’t listen to him so perhaps Mr. Fenn is telling us in the illustration that if we don’t make some changes the moon will be more habitable, especially for those whose homes we are destroying. I, while agreeing with him, just find it odd that there’s no related story in the book.

        save a tree and a home

        jd

        • I’d never thought of the bird nesting in the crescent moon as being related to the home of Brown.
          Is there a spot in the rockies that is the ONLY nesting spot of some species of bird ?
          The Brown ________. (someone fill in the blank please)

    • I do not know about lunar cycles, so when is the crescent moon present in the sky? Anyone? Maybe the bird in the nest signifies the Spring when birds are nesting?

      • I think it might be a hint that it’s in a stump if there’s anything even to it or he wants to trick us into thinking it’s in a stump and the wood is something else.

        • The stumps reminded me of his story on his blog called “Treasures Galore” about how many trees it took to print the NY Times newspaper. He emailed and subsequently talked to an editor of the NY times and it sounded like it ended up being a screaming match. With all the trees cut down for use in paper, just where does the poor bird have to nest? On the moon? Ironic though isn’t it, that Forrest’s book uses up a lot of paper too? 😀

      • Lisa,

        Since the moon’s cycle (from full to the next full) is between 29-30 days, there are two crescent stages in each cycle, one facing each direction. One on the way from “full moon” to it’s opposite or “no moon”. And another on the way from “no moon” back to the next “full moon”. I’m no expert but I hope this makes sense.

        I like your analogy of the bird indicating Spring, but I tend to think the illustration is about mankind destroying our home. It reminded me of Easter Island.

        it could happen

        jd

  70. I don’t have the book yet so thank you JD 🙂

    I got one just while reading it. Forrest says ” I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak.”~ the reference being in the line that the aspirations of his youth he is finally living having languished and become tired in his patience. 🙂

    • Ofcourse Mr. Fenn said “I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak”. For crying-out-loud he spent many days/hours crafting his Poem to Perfection! Then writing his Memoir! After that shopping around for the perfect Chest then deciding which gems, rubies, and gold to part with…that certainly made him weak, no doubt about that,…who wouldn’t get weak by parting with such beautiful items. All that followed by getting all that necessary things together to put everyting in motion such as the items needed to do the task…and what he had to carry, in what type of weather, buried it or hid it deep in water or land by rocks, by trees, inside a cave…of course he said “I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak”…Also while dealing with his health! Just thinking about what he went through makes makes me tired and weak.

      • VG you don’t get it, he IS such a simple man that he doesn’t swell on stuff like that. You know what that song led me to? Lynard Skynard’s “Simple Man” go listen to it on you tube and REALLY listen to the words.

        The first stanza has already been solved, he went into his vault at his house to make poem and figure out just what he’d place in the box.

      • VGBOSS,

        I thought within the last line he was saying he already had his “Thrill of the Chase”. He “chased” until he was tired and now he’s too weak (I question this weakness but he needed the word for his poem) to continue it, so now he’s giving us a chance.

        He had from the time he was 58 when he got cancer, to age 79 or 80 when he hid the chest, to accumulate all the desired items, write the poem (I think he said it took 12 years to perfect it) and the book. Yes, he was fighting cancer during the early part of it, (successfully, thank his God) but I think the poem, book and accumulating the treasure items may have been more fun for him than labor.

        Now he’s sitting back and really enjoying the chase.

        jd

    • The whole stanza:

      “So why is it that I must go
      And leave my trove for all to seek?
      The answers I already know
      I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak”

      The first three lines of the stanza seem straight forward. It seems FF is telling us that he must go and hide a trove for all to seek and that he knows why he must do it.

      But the last line seems to be saying to me that he hid his trove when he was tired (had cancer?) and now he is too weak (old) to go back and retrieve it; Or, he has gone there when he was tired (old) and he needs to go now when he is weak (has cancer) but can still get there? Or???

      Is he speaking to the reader or to himself?

      • I think he was describing his condition when he hid it. This goes along with the “clue” he tells now to remember it’s where an 80 year old man could carry it. And we know he was tired as well. It can help rule out areas that are too treacherous for the inexperienced, too. I would guess that some of the people hunting are new to the great outdoors! Perhaps he is letting us know it is so easy, a tired 80 year old man can do it… and yet, none of us have found it yet. He is mocking us! 🙂

      • Dollar Bill~ read up on typesetting. Fenn publised his own book and I’m sure might know a thing or two about pretty much of everything.

        Widows are talked about in typesetting and it tells how to ‘cure’ them. Take the ends, the 2 ‘sticks’ everyone is talkig about (ski poles) lol and break them (the ends) apart accordingly, to so to speak ‘fix’ them. 🙂

    • Kym if Mr. Fenn was a simple man, as you state, the Poem would be simple and a simple person would have found his trove by now….it’s been over 3 YEARS now!

      • I agree. I think everyone’s looking in the same wrong places. Maybe we need to look where we don’t know he’s been. He’s said that many have been within 500 feet…but does that mean it’s been searchers? I’m not sure if that’s how he’s ever stated it…does anyone know verbatim what he’s said?

      • Stephanie, I thought I read he did say he knew of people who have “searched” within 500′ but… searched for what? coulda been looking for arrowheads or snipe. Personally I think he was insinuating people looking for his treasure have been that close but overlooked the other clues or didn’t know what the blaze was. I could swear he made this remark around the same time he said people who emailed him have figured out the first 2 clues. This has led me to refine my search to some of the more common areas I know people have been looking.

        • I did that last year with Cimarron. I thought that if he meant that many were searchers…then that would be a good place. I could totally see how someone could walk right by it under a bush with it right out in the open. People who haven’t gone out searching don’t realize it would be so easy to pass up. If the blaze is on a tree and say it’s up higher than someone typically would look….you’d miss it. I still do believe that it could be a blaze on a tree. I have other thoughts too that aren’t in the wilderness…but they’re probably just my creative mind going over board. I thought once that maybe you had to be on a second story looking down into a bronze(worth the cold) sculpture and you can only see it from the second story.

          • I agree that the blaze is probably a mark or symbol on a tree or more likely to my mind, on the rock canyon wall. A mark on rock would last much longer.
            The chest is hidden well enough that a random hiker won’t stumble over it, but there needed to be some way that someone following the poem could find it.

          • That might have been Forrest’s message to us with those blazes…to not give up on the trees. I did see some sandstone FF’s that I blogged about that I thought were a cool idea. I like the idea you wouldn’t even see it like “where’s waldo” and it blends into the natural scenery.

      • well I’ve only learned about it this past week now. So, I’m sure that although, it’s nat’l news there are still those who don’t know. No one at my work did and they are locals! LOL

      • i read an article that said forrest “knows of more than a few people who have searched within 500 feet of the site”, that is quoting the article not forrest. in a reply to an emailer asking about it, Fenn’s response seemed to imply one person he knew of who searched nearby. “No, I’m not saying who was close. If I said Bruce was close he’d go back and step off exactly 500 feet and pick up the treasure.” … or maybe it doesn’t.

        • So is it possible that he only KNOWS of a few, but that it’s in a place where just regular people might go by it like hikers on a trail famous trail? I mean saying that only one group found the first two seems like it would be in a place that none of us are looking….ya know?

      • VG you asked me about anagrams, I have not done that but I have done ACRONYM and found some clues that way, so try the 2 outer edges. YW

      • Here’s some food for thought on Blazes… In Colorado there is a Whitecross Mountain, not to be confused with the Holy Cross one that’s made outta snow.This mountain was given its name because of the naturally occurring white quartz in the shape of a cross embedded in the stone near it’s peak. That would be one heck of a long lasting blaze mark. There are a lot of other coincidences that coincide with the poem in that area but after hours of research I decided it wasn’t a place I’d expect Forrest to go so I gave up on that area. If it indeed is THE Blaze I’m gonna feel pretty dumb for not taking the hike.

      • Regarding a blaze . . . If the blaze represents a marker then it could well be made of bronze. It will last an incredibly long time and won’t oxidize – however it will develop a lovely greenish patina.

    • Someone was asking about a 4wd vehicle. It occured to me that “done it tired” might be “done it with tires” as in using a car or 4wd vehicle. Very Tricky!

    • Do you mean the biddies chapter? Its about two women who talked behind peoples backs. They talked behind forrests when he was a kid and he didn’t care for them. 

      Sent from my Samsung Galaxy™ S II 4GTHRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

  71. Stephanie
    Yes it was a place where Forrest did not go but you got to realize that unless you go in there that will not be obvious at first until you experience it. So I had to go to find out, and while I was there,we thought we might as well go to the falls so we would be the 2nd one there after Doug Scott or maybe 3rd after Kit Carson then Doug.. It was remote cause the local people who live there did not even know that there was a waterfall there.
    So I don’t think you should always stop after going 500′ or a mile but do stop after 92 miles.
    But after 1 mile use a GPS. I would not discount that Forrest could walk a 2 mile trail.
    Another safety tip here is don’t depend on your cell phone to work cause if you are in a remote area the mountains will block the signal or there may not be a cell tower nearby. When we went up Lost creek we had no cell service and we also lost our GPS signal several times and had to go to a clearing to reestablish the satellite locks. Also we had backup batteries for the GPS and 2 cell phones. Also never go alone, and if you are in a group stay toghether, don’t let anyone run ahead of the group
    Also running into a bear or mountain lion is pretty rare but I had a friend who was fishing in the Cimarron state park and was charged by a 300 pound black bear, I have also been growled at by a mountain lion one time when I was sleeping in my tent in the Sandias cause I camped right in his trail. If you are in a group of two or more there is no way a mountain lion or bear will even thing about doing anything, but if you are by yourself a mountain lion can stalk you or you can startle a bear if you don’t make much noise. Also there are some areas full of skunks and you will see them but mostly at dusk. Luckilly there are no more grizzly bears in New Mexico.
    I do carry Bear spray but not only for the Bears but for protection.
    If you think this all silly just remember the recent one in Bandeliar and that was all on well worn paths.

    • Tim
      Sounds like you put forth a good effort! If Forest said no one would stumble upon it, I would imagine it’s bit off the beaten path, even if it’s less than a mile. I remember when I went hiking in Alaska, we were told to wear bells so the noise would scare off the animals prior to an encounter.
      It’s all about the thrill! 🙂

      • Oakleygirl
        This Joke is meant for Boy Scouts.

        The National Park Rangers are advising hikers in Glacier National Park and other Rocky Mountain parks to be alert for bears and take extra precautions to avoid an encounter.
        They advise park visitors to wear little bells on their clothes so they make noise when hiking. The bell noise allows bears to hear them coming from a distance and not be startled by a hiker accidentally sneaking up on them. This might cause a bear to charge.
        Visitors should also carry a pepper spray can just in case a bear is encountered. Spraying the pepper into the air will irritate the bear’s sensitive nose and it will run away.
        It is also a good idea to keep an eye out for fresh bear scat so you have an idea if bears are in the area. People should be able to recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear scat.
        Black bear droppings are smaller and often contain berries, leaves, and possibly bits of fur. Grizzly bear droppings tend to contain small bells and smell of pepper.

      • Remember folks, a Bear’s paw is usually the size of or bigger than a human head. One swipe is all it takes.

        If your are using pepper spray then you are probably too close for comfort. If you are packing a hand gun then it better be of a very high caliber – otherwise you are just going to make that bear very mad at you.

        • We brought an air horn. We have a cache hidden in cimmaron with bear spray, air horn, and other stuff. If you find it, you can have it. Send me a pic so i know you did.

          Sent from my Samsung Galaxy™ S II 4GTHRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

    • LOL you should be the only one left looking for the treasure after that post tim. 

      Good point on cell service. I bring other phones too. 

      Sent from my Samsung Galaxy™ S II 4GTHRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

      • Stephanie
        We need to get serious here and stop all this fun, I am also known as the mushroom cause my wife says I am sure a fun guy. (fungi) At first I thought she called me that cause I thought I was well endowed, but that was not so.
        So are you now reconsidering a group meeting in Santa Fe cause I can be a blast and I never take anything serious unless I have to and we still need to get drunk.
        This is also because I nearly died one time and after being saved I swore to never be serious again,. This Forrest thing is weird for me cause after I heard about his cancer being related to his kidneys, I snapped to attention cause I have had a kidney transplant which saved my life. I told Dal this and if by chance he has any relationship the the 8 year old girl whom gave me her kidney after being getting killed riding her bicycle, this chase is over and its mine and the kidney foundations.
        Enough fun for the day for me and ending it on a serious note.
        Thanks all for you replys and next I will get back to the chase.
        In tribute and I am holding her blaze
        http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=16597171&PIpi=6945683

        • That is a beautiful blaze. I have an 8 year old daughter, that is a very touching bittersweet story. I’m glad you remember her in all you do.

        • Tim I’ve yet to read a post like that…make me laugh, ask me out to get drunk and then make me cry? I’m in Santa Fe now and leave in the am for Chicago…..so can’t be this trip. Some have wagers on if I’ll be back next week though lol….no seriously I’m waiting for better weather…so it will be a month or so(I’m serious Dal and Bonnie…my phone posts will be from Chicago lol). I like the fungi….I’ve said if I find the chest I will get a tattoo(first ever) to commemorate the event and adventure and probably will be a trout so I can tell everyone what a great catch I am(just as lame a joke as yours lol)….. On a serious note….wow…so sad, but so wonderful of a gift. I’ve told everyone in my family that if anything happens to them and I have to make their decision that I’m giving every part of them away to someone who can use it. *hugs* I’m glad as sad as that was…that such an amazing and great thing came from it. On another note another note…I just left Collected Works bookstore and ordered a book I’m going to gift to my girlfriend who keeps trying to steal mine. They said their order will be in on March 25th and they will start shipping the books for all those who are waiting that day. Stephanie

          • Stephanie
            Thanks for the reply
            Yeh, I know how you feel, I now cry too all the time because I am more sensitive now that I am part female. I don’t want to get you drunk I want us to get Forrest drunk to spill more beans. Also I want to have a group session with you and everyone on the chase that would like to meet and share thoughts.
            We could set a date in Santa Fe then all decide on one place to go out hunting all together after we are sober. Sounds like fun
            After the hunt we all could go to Forrest’s house and each of us could ring his bell once and introduce ourselves.

          • LOL Part female. You are one witty funny guy….err girl. Gosh I want to go now and have this get together. I found out after 2 glasses of wine while in Santa Fe last time with my girlfriend that I can speak fluent Spanish and even tell you where we parked the car. I might not recognize the car…but I’ll get you close. Where were you the other day when I was making plans to stay here a few days. I did get to meet one of my searcher/blogger friends Richard Saunier. Not sure if you and I have emailed…but shoot me an email and I’ll send you a pic of our little coffee clutch. tyblossom at aol dot com. I took all the pics of me off my blog, because I don’t want mass amounts of people knowing what I look like and following me in the wood…or woods rather.

      • Stephanie-
        So how many trips do you have under your belt now and what is one interesting thing you found or discovered on this trip…other than the chest 🙂

        • Sorry that sent too quick. One thing I learned….how easily I can get long love(sarcasm) letters from you babe! LOL…..Ok, no seriously….that using a camera to take a picture deep inside things you don’t want to stick your hand is a good thing.

          • Ok I probably should clarify that Dal and I are happily married to other people and are frenemies as Gadi puts his relationship with Dal….but hopefully he’ll always be my bestest frenemy *hugs and love Dal*

  72. Question, that may have already been answered somewhere, but here goes… I keep seeing people use house instead of “home” for “the home of Brown”. One big difference is that home is where someone/animal/fish live or spend time daily. So that would eliminate historic houses of those famous dead Browns. And if were to be a cave, lake, or other animal home, we would have to assume that the animal is living there right? Wouldn’t that change over time as well? If it were a lake (for the brown trout) at which part of the lake would you “put in” since that is a pretty big home?
    I know there are many other definitions for home, but I don’t think assuming it is a house is the correct way to go. Maybe I am just being too picky and need to reread explanations already posted.

    • Oak-
      To muddy the waters even more…Forrest himself actually wrote “Brown’s house” in an email that is posted on this blog.
      http://lummifilm.wordpress.com/2012/10/02/forrest-gets-mail/
      So..once again..my mantra…don’t get hung up on tiny details.

      Forrest could have easily capitalized Brown just as a red herring…maybe there is no need to use a cap…but he is a very good character study. I believe he understood that searchers would get fixated on the capital “B”. His sense of humor is very much like that. For the same reason he could have not capitalized meek…maybe its a reference to a person…maybe not. I think it’s not important. I treat it as a “b” and a “B” or an “M” and an “m”.

      Keep your mind open…look for where warm waters halt and follow the clues…When you have followed your canyon down then start trying to find a home or house or residence or place where either Brown or brown could be. One place might have a reference to Brown and other might have a reference to brown..just see if you can make it work anyway at all…if you can’t make it work move on to another place where warm waters halt and keep going til you find one that works…then go look for more places you can follow all the way from warm waters halting to just before the blaze clue.
      In the end you should have several places to search in your trip…

      • Thanks Dal
        I keep thinking that it will all explain itself when you are at the correct starting point. (like when you found that Brown home in the news clip) I read what others interpret then start to question on how specific Forest was in his word choice. Amazing how such small grammatical choices can have so much of an impact.
        Living in the New England area the true home of Brown is Providence RI! 🙂

      • OK, dissenter Dave here. You’ll notice I used a capital D because it’s a proper name. I believe the same holds true for Forrest’s Brown. Ruth Humphreys Brown might agree. Road trip to Aspen or Creede this summer?

    • I agree with dal a lot on this one, even though I have pre-selected my own brown meaning.

      Just some browns for you to ponder on: the Brown Ranch, a brown colored home, a brown bear den, a brown trout fish hatchery, a brown trout stream, Indian ruins, Indian town, Spanish ruins, Spanish town, a brown bat cave, and probably many more I haven’t considered. You might have to see it before you know.

      • Hi Dal,

        Yes, and take it in the canyon down comes right after warm waters halt. Keep in mind that a canyon can follow a river flowing from a dam and empty into another dam. Of course that assumes that warm waters halt is a dam. Also, maybe warm waters halt is not a dam but something that leads into a canyon?

        Cheers,
        JP

        • I just looked up canyon the other day and I guess it doesn’t even have to have water in it…just that it used to? I was looking it up, because I was looking at a “canyon” type area down the side of a ski hill where there was no water coming down, but I did see a house of Brown of another type. By the way…just want to say that I drove all by myself up and down a mountain…if you live out West, you might call it a hill…but to me who lives in Chicago where the elevation only changes in an elevator….I’m pretty dang impressed with myself lol. I also for the first time since drivers ed, used both hands on the wheel…and my Mom who was my passenger didn’t even scream…but her two hands on the dashboard did concern me(oh I’m kidding….)

      • Stephanie,

        Sorry to hear that you were here and are now leaving. I just back last night from a two week road warrior trip to Utah and Nevada. I hear the weather was great over the weekend. I saw lots of Canyons from the air flying over Santa Fe into New Mexico. Congrats on managing that drive in the mountains! There are so many beautiful places out here.

        Sorry, we didn’t hook up. Maybe next time.

        JP

        • Oh that would be fun Jon Paul. Are you a pilot? Ever fly from Chicago to NM???? LOL. I’m trying to talk myself into finding a way to stay out here for a couple weeks with a girlfriend and our two boys. I feel I’m cheating the adventure by letting the kids stay home on their electronics. It would be a lot easier if I could find the chest…then come out here to stay for a while……

      • Hey Stephanie,

        It was a commercial flight. I love to fly and have done three solos but am not licensed. Would be fun to hook up with you and your family the next time you are out here.

        john

      • Dal, I can identify with the location referenced by Jwhal under this post. He seems as confident in his spot as I did 6 months ago. In fact, his posts about the canyon going to the far end, not being done yet, a location in NM, and the elevation from him are identical to what I would have written months ago. I am reasonably sure, as one might be in this case, that we may have been to the canyon and spot he talks about. A group of us used the poem only to locate the spot, identified it in Google Earth clear as day,, then made three fairly crueling hikes to the spot in different weather conditions searching both high and low with no luck. As said by many others, it fit all so well in the computer and even when you think you have narrowed it down precisely, you can find something completely different in the field. Jwhal, I hope you get a chance to try it at that spot yourself and I wish you good luck in The Chase….it sure isn’t as easy as it appears from a bird”s eye, If you do find it at the location you have identified, I hope you will share the details with all of us. I want to know how close we were,

      • One would think it would be above the home of brown, “Put in below the home of brown” Lends to the ideal of a nautical term.

    • @John Paul
      Hadn’t thought of her, my dog’s name is Oakley! 🙂 But as Dal asked, what about the other lines? Unless the dam is named Brown, but a dam isn’t a home.

      • Oakley, I think that some see warm waters halt as a dam. The water is cold below it, therefore warm on top. There are some dams/reservoirs that are good fishing when it comes to brown trout and might be a “home” for Browns. So we could have a couple of scenarios, one dam’s water leads into a canyon and then into another dam, home of Brown. Another would be take it to the canyon down after the dam and then further down stream (too far to walk but too far to float) put in below the home of Brown.

      • JohnPaul
        I understand what you are saying. Unfortunately there are too many dams,canyons and warm waters! Forest certainly knew what he was doing to keep us trying and re-trying. Narrowing it down depends on personal interpretation and then trial and error. There are many on here who could put up a good argument as to why their spot is “the beginning spot”. I’m glad that Forest made this challenging. His work was well worth the effort. I just wish I had more opportunity to get out there and hunt.

  73. If there are any of you who are geographers, geologists, archeologists…etc, I am keenly interested in hearing from science folks. If you don’t want to comment on the blog, please drop me a note..
    dal@lummifilm.com

    Thanks

    • Be careful dal. An archaeologist is probably the last person you want to ask on how to find pottery shards. Just kidding, please ask if you may post any words of wisdom that you receive privately from them. I believe some of us would be interested, I know that I would. Thanks.

      If you have any questions associated with civil engineering, I will try my best to respond. Since I am retired and not practicing anymore, it will not be professional advice. I might be helpful with dam construction theory, but certainly not with dam beginning theory.

        • Nothin nefarious I promise…
          But I saw that video of you finding the bracelet that Forrest wants back and I am hoping an archeologist can tell me if its the real deal..:-)

          • LOL The tinfoil and painted teal lifesavers bracelet? I mean the antique turquoise and silver piece? Of course it’s real…and yummy too. Your up to something Dal….and I’m on your trail….and going to jump out in front before you spot that cold bronze chest…..*smile* Sorry everyone for being so post happy. I’m stuck in a hotel room where I’m sure the treasure isn’t even close and your all suffering with me.

  74. Hey Dal, I have been reading and commenting on your site for just a little while now but wanted to take the opportunity to send a big ol’ Thank You your way for creating and maintaining this blog. Honestly I dont think I’m any closer to the treasure than the day I started searching but it sure has been enjoyable reading all the tips, ideas and stories on here. So again… Thanks

    • Its-
      Thanks for the kind words. Sorry if I get short once in a while. Now that there are so many folks following the blog we have attracted the venomous crowd who just want to mess with everybody and spray the place with graffiti. I find policing the blog not very fun..
      But I am glad you are enjoying it even if you haven’t found the chest yet..
      Good luck. Keep looking. Keep writing…

      • Hang in there, Dal! Many, many, many of us appreciate your effort tremendously, judging by the number of posts on your blog. The “graffiti and venom” crowd may just have forgotten that one is supposed to play with marbles, not just throw them away and then say they “lost them”. I’m having more fun doing this than I have at anything else right now! Thanks! Big THANKS!

      • Hey Dal,

        This is such a great blog and service. Thank you for making it available for us.

        It might be too much work to set up but a forum where we could all hang out and talk might help in searching and responding on various topics.

        Your blog comment sections has become a forum in some ways. I’m not sure what tools one would use but there may be some good open source tools available, maybe even inside of WordPress, that help one create searchable and indexed forums.

        JP

  75. No formal education in the field but my last 5-6 weeks have been specifically devoted 100% to 2 of the fields. Wife made reservations for a few days up north, if i don’t stop reading i’ll be living in a tent there for the next 6 mos lol.

  76. oakleygirl, if I am hearing you correctly, you are saying that the fifth stanza with “I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak” is similar to the first stanza in that neither stanza has anything to do with where the chest is. I don’t doubt that FF gets enjoyment out of our confused efforts. Like watching puppies taking their first steps around the room.

    • $bill,

      I haven’t eliminated any stanzas as not having clues. I see the second stanza as filled with obvious clues (maybe too obvious) and the rest with less obvious possible clues. 9 clues in 6 stanzas, 24 lines. Obviously some lines can be eliminated as clueless, but can the entire sentence it’s within be eliminated?
      Mr. Fenn has said he won’t put an X on the map for us… which someone else said is the only letter NOT in his poem. Does that make the entire poem a map or just the parts that have obvious clues? We’re all working with the same map and the chest hasn’t been found yet. Whats that tell ya? Yep, I’m clueless.

      jd

      • Ive considered that because there are 9 sentences and Fenn said there are 9 clues, maybe that was his way of saying the whole poem is a clue to the location, don’t look at any part as just filler. This is why i would disagree with the idea, for instance, that the first stanza has to do with him going into his vault and filling the chest, which would tell you nothing about the hidden location. Perhaps there may be some words or phrase in a sentence, that if you singled them out, aren’t specifically a clue, but every sentence as a whole is a clue or clues.

        Not that this is anything significant but ive noticed that from the 3rd stanza on, the rhythmic cadence of the poem is even all the way, due to 8 syllables in every line, the first 2 stanzas not so.

      • If Forrest said he would “not put an X on the map for you” and there is no X on the map (in the poem), that does not mean he did not put an X to mark the spot where the treasure is located. I am looking for the skull and crossbones of a pirate flag. Just kidding!

    • dollarbill
      I think that stanza is more about him reflecting on the reason he hid the treasure or trying to understand why “he must go”. I’m sure if we were told we were dying, we would question why. Or for us to think about why he left a treasure for us to hunt for. Is the only way to get kids and people back into nature by enticing them with a treasure (greed)? What a great way to appeal to everyone…”for all to seek”. Of course explaining that he did it at his age, and being sick, shows that everyone is capable. Maybe he hopes that people will understand that the true treasure/reward is in the adventure or something deeper than a box of gold. (which many have already discovered) So many reasons for what he did, but I believe it’s not for fame. And only he already knows why, “the answer I already know”, we just need to find out for ourselves.
      Wow… too deep? These are just my opinions! Same with the first stanza. So to answer your question, no, I don’t think it really has to do with where the chest is, but instead, WHY the chest is where it is.

      • oakleygirl, I don’t agree with every small interpretation that you put forth, but I entirely agree with your overall concept of the two stanzas. You have turned on some 200 watt light bulbs and pointed them at the two stanzas. They seem very clear now. Your stones were a great help too. Thanks. I intend on pestering you for more of your thoughts. Hope you don’t mind.

      • dollarbill
        Glad I was able to help you with my thoughts. If I had the other details figured out, I would be out in the wilderness!
        I think people need to remember that he decided to do the clues as a poem instead of making a list of clue#1, clue #2, etc… so deciding what you think the 9 clues are is part of the puzzle. I don’t see any reason to think Forest wouldn’t put some personal insight into this along with the clues. Again, my opinion.
        Grateful to Dal for giving us all the opportunity to pick each others’ brains!
        We know there is a correct solution to this and the reward is out there somewhere!

  77. speaking of canyons, there is a large canyon that needs to be crossed to get from the first half of the comments to the second half

    • Chris-
      I LOVE that canyon..
      I assume you are talking about Old Jules post about magnetic deviation…
      I thought that was a terrific salute to the complexity of the issue…

      • If that post truly reflects the complexity of this hunt then I will never find this chest, however … I do plan on finding it. =0

  78. John Paul –

    “I went alone in there” – trip number one
    “And with my treasures bold – trip number 2

    I think he made preparations on trip 1 and brought the treasure with him on trip 2.

  79. i live on the NC coast where the
    warm waters halt. its the gulf stream its called the
    NORTH WALL .now check out these.
    the 2012 NM quater ,the old north wall ‘Frijoles Canyon post card
    and yellowstone, just for a few . you owe me a gold coin

    • Hey Wanda, interesting thing about the north wall. Chaco Canyon is a fantastic place. Did you know that the remains of McCaws have been found there? They were brought up from South America some thousand of years ago and some two thousand miles by foot.

      Amazing stuff. There were more Native American present in this hemisphere than there were people in Europe at the time of Columbus.

  80. JD – Thank you for the excellent lunar cycle explanation. I think that means that the crescent moon in the picture is the first one in the cycle, so it may be just after the full moon in Spring when the birds are nesting (on rocks because there are no trees!)Timing is everything! I thought of Easter Island too. Did you see the documentary about how they walked the Moai(sp?)to their places overlooking the ocean?

    • Lisa,

      I missed the doc but saw a movie about it. Warm waters halting all around that island, but no home of Brown that I saw.

      • JD-what about the birds nesting on the rocks where the men of the rival Rapanui tribes had to swim from the shore to get their eggs? Covered with doo-doo and maybe the home of Brown?

  81. Chris Yates – I wondered that too, and if he might have omitted words in the first two stanzas that were related to when he planned to be interred with the chest. I have thought of what some of those words might have been, but I do not like to go there. I am very glad that Forrest is still here 🙂

  82. Dal, I would like to express my gratitude to Forrest for the Chase (shake his hand for me) and to you for this terrific blog. I haven’t had this much fun in several years! As I indicated in previous post, I am a tenderfoot at blogging. I knew about them but chose not to participate.

    Now, I will see if I can get a rise from the masses.

    “As I have gone alone in there And with my treasures bold,” – – I think this means Forrest had been to this location before with his family (treasures) and went in alone with the chest and contents.

    “I’ve done it tired,” – – I believe this refers to mode of transportation…..examples: I’ve done it by horseback, I’ve done it barefoot, etc. I believe Forrest used car (tired) to get close to location and quite probably another type of wheeled conveyance to transport chest (Read Forrest’s Blog, he’s done it before)…..I love his play with words!!

    “Put in below the home of Brown.” – – much is being made about why Brown is capitalized. What you should be searching for is other word(s) that should or could be caps. There is at least one, which if you capitalize it would be a major clue. {also, I do not think Brown refers to any type of structure or home to any living creature}.

    Just sayin…..Fred

    • Fred – I thought of the “tired” referring to car and commentd above and the horseback makes sense….kind of sounds like something John Wayne would say, “done it tired” and “put away wet” or something like that.

      • yeah Lisa, I saw your post you are refering to..
        I may be new at posting on blogs, but I can read post dates and times!
        Your post was at 9:19pm, mine was at 9:04pm. (It just “occured” to you?)
        Thank you so much for a valuable lesson.
        I will make sure to only post during high traffic hours.
        just sayin…..Fred

  83. Tim
    A gps is great and backup batteries are a good idea but everyone should be carrying a compass as well. A grizzly will not be anymore scared of 3 people as it is of 1, there are documented cases of black bears attacking more than 1 person together also. sorry to nitpick.

    • econsinite
      According to the ABA, the American bear association they recommend that you travel in a group
      http://www.americanbear.org/awareness/camping-hiking.html
      They also mention that if a bear approches group up together for some reason.
      Now I have not been in Grizzly bear territory and I had mentioned that there are no grizzly bears in New Mexico.where I was hiking but according to the ABA that advice is probably good advice as well in Grizzly bear territory as well as black brown bears where I was
      So if even you go hiking even where there is no bears it is not advisible to go by oneself
      I will have to agree with you on the compass but with my magnetic personality I have found it quite useless Most people will be exploring on developed trails so neither is really necessary, but when that person was asking about a GAIN permit that to me threw up a red flag that they may be going off trail
      So what about mountain lions and skunks? I wonder if there is a AMLA and an ASA for them
      Take my statement as a general advice because it probably is true that a bear has attacked a couple of people that were together but that is like a person winning the 500 million powerball or the one that finds this chest
      A compass will do but if you are serious about finding something off trail get a GPS.

    • econsinite
      So while we are on this subject it would be more likely that you are killed by a hunter out in the wilderness than killed by smoky the bear so I would also advise a person to find out if you are hiking during the hunting period and if so sing more loudly and wear bright clothing like a red or yellow hat etc, Do not wear that elk costume you wore for Halloween or that female bear costume with perfune could be deadly as well. For some reason we are barely over this but read the ABA advice from the pro/s to get the facts

      • Tim, does that mean that I should forget about wearing my beaver coat and just pretending I’m the Queen of the Beavers? LOL…there are “special” precautions for woods women going into wild country especially during rut season. As a former female bow hunter I always considered the “season” 😉 *Always cautious of other hunters*

  84. Found this definition while doing a google search:
    “Bold Treasures are all found objects, antiques collectibles, vintage pottery and glass”. Hope that helps someone.

  85. Fred-I was trying to help someone with that info who asked a question about whether Forrest had a 4wd higher up in the blog string. When I came back down to do another reply, I saw your post. I am a newby too at blogging, but you will find this happens. Sometimes I know things for a week or more and do not post it on this blog until someone asks a pertinent question to remind me of a thought. A lot of thoughts roll around in my head that I do not write down in the blog. It was nice of you to give those clues to everyone 🙂

  86. So, my Son, Sean, decided to visit us tonight bearing gifts. Inside is a chocolate covered “fortune cookie”. I break it apart, with Him, and I get the fortune which reads: “Be prepared to modify your plan”. So I interpret that in 2 ways:… #1.. Either, I need a new formula? or …#2. I am “SPOT ON” with my plan? Should I be packing my bags or going back to the drawing board? Still, funny to find it in a fortune cookie, looking for a “Fortune”!!!! Some may say you need to add the words “in bed” after a fortune…funny as it is,..My fortune now reads: ” Be prepared to modify your plan, in bed”. Ha, ha, ha!!! As I tossed and turned until 3;00 am, thanks FF, and couldn’t sleep, just thinking about all of this. I did sleep for a while, until 5:00am when I woke again, a REVALATION, as to where my spot could be, so I put on my light and wrote it down…..of course that wasn’t satisfying to me, so I went back on the comp., and came up with a “blaze”. Ironic, as it is.. my fortune said “Be prepared to modify your plan… and “it” did while in bed…Maybe those fortunes cookies do mean something, two ways to interpret things….just saying.

    • Hi Lois – that same no sleep cycle has been happening to me for about 2 weeks with about the same timeframes. That is why I am still on the blog now, which is 11:15pm my time 🙂

    • Ok Stephi,

      You are in a blizzard or the air or somewhere . . . but this thing about Clovis and finding a nice flint in a Woilly Mammoth…

      Some of the oldest footprints and documents of native Americans has, to this date been found in Clovis, NM. I know, I was born in its sister city of only a few miles away, Portales.

      Clovis, NM is famous for other historical reasons. There were some very notable hayseeds who began their recording careers there in Clovis. Bill Haley and the Comets and Roy Orbison to name a few. I was blessed to fulfill a lifelong dream of photographing Halley’s Comet when it came by in the mid 80’s right from the same very location there in Portales. I call that photograph Bill Haley.

      Anyway, flints from there and stuck in a Wolly Mammoth would be awesome for any serious collector. Not too far from Clovis is a great little town of MuleShoe, Texas, a great place to get a really good pair of Texan spit kickers (cowboy boots).

      And then not far from there is where my kid brother was born, Lubbock, Texas. So just a little history lesson. Also in New Mexico is a one of the best places in all of the Americas to get a spectacular flint for making arrowheads. It was sought for its beautiiful multicolor specular qualities by native Americans all the way down to South America. The location of this flint is also the location of the ashes of a woman who was scattered upon the mountain tops of this well fabled place.

      So get that plane turned around and get back out here. The treasure ain’t in Yellowstone it’s right here in in New Mexico. And if Dal will spare me the post I would be happy to explain why.

      Your friend,
      John paul

      • 8 dollar wifi….did you guys miss me or were you hoping the wifi was down? lol.

        Your talking about one sweet lady artist mountain. I did do some searching around there….but not by her mountain. I wish i could turn the plane around. Wish I could live out there. Ill be back researching tomorrow, but do want to consider some north spots. Just too cold there to go.

        Sent from my Samsung Galaxy™ S II 4GTHRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

      • JP-
        I’m all ears…except for my legs…
        I just hope it doesn’t have anything to do with anagrams or wooly mammoths…
        Seriously…why Colorado?

  87. just a reminder:

    Rocky Mountain States
    noun
    those states in the region of the Rocky Mountains, including Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Utah, and Wyoming, and sometimes Arizona and New Mexico.

        • Wiki is not a reliable source of info all the time. It is a user defined site meaning the users themselves add information. Sometimes it can be trusted and often not. Always back up your wiki source with a couple of others before launching an attack on Wiki’s data.

          • Well I may not know longitudes and latitudes but I know my technology, websites and software. I’m a technology teacher. (Highschool) NEVER ever trust Wikipedia. The reason being is anyone can get on there and edit or write information. I could get on there and write a whole bunch of stuff about the home of brown and send y’all in the wrong direction lol!! Really use it for getting info but verify all info from other places!

          • Stephi, I think one has already been started on Forrest. I thought I saw it not long ago. I could be dreaming though. I’ve been having hallucinations about hidden treasure. Kinda like when I’m in Arkansas….I have hallucinations about having a saruca full of diamonds.

          • _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenn_treasure_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenn_treasure) There’s that one, but I feel it should be about him and not his treasure. I mean I know that’s why we’re all here…but I don’t know….I think the world would be a better place if they saw someone like Forrest to use as an example in their lives…someone who just wants to do something that might seem unattainable and does it. Someone who has a good heart. Someone who is genuinely happy for others good fortune(not speaking monetarily).

          • Stephi, sounds like a job for the Fenn Faithful. I’m nominating you….with help from others. I might be able to throw something into the mix, but you know the man. I have yet to have the privilege. I have my number in the queue. I think it’s 4,538. Patience is not one of my virtues.

      • On Google Earth I find a designation of the Rocky Mountains when I hold my cursor over the word Rocky Mountains. From its primary db/borders/labels/Geographic Features. Includes portions of NM, CO, Utah, Nevada, Montana, Idaho with a touch of Washington. Similar ‘swath’ as wikipedia but a bit wider. In

  88. any takers?

    Black Hills are NOT part of the rockies!!! It is an ISOLATED mountain range east of the rockies. hence south dakota is not listed as one of the 6 U.S. states of the rockie mtn rg (being continental divide.) Check your encyclopedia, its all there!

    Great (Continental) and North Divide meets, Tripple Divide Peak . Lewis & Clark…thinkn some of their stories may parallel the clues. Like an ex-wife, I want half of half, then half of your half!

  89. This question is directed to those who are experienced and in the know about the Rocky Mountains. I’m still tackling the “where warm water halt” line. Well is there anyone within this blog who is able to tell me if the Colorado River is actually the WARMEST river in the Rockies? Thank you

    • Hey Stephanie I appreciate that link…another clue which I am not too happy about as there is NO WAY I will be going up to Montana and Wyoming. Now knowing for a fact that Montana and Wyoming are Forrest Fenn’s favorite states to go fishing just scrambled all my notes up. Montana and Wyoming are just way to far for me.

      • Well we don’t know he secreted it where he fishes. He’s eluded that his fishing spot was a secret, but I always question if that’s not a sleight of hands type thing….maybe it has nothing to do with fishing, but has everything to do with his favorite collection which is arrowheads. I wouldn’t discount anything…it’s just another layer to add. VG…I’m starting to think you might not like me…you do right? *smile* Hugs and Love!! hehe.

      • VG, I’m taking a contrary view of the article. I see no clue here.

        1st, everyone is assuming that the reporter is quoting Forrest exactly and that because he made no mention of New Mexico, he does not fish New Mexico.

        2nd, Just because I live in Texas and tell someone I fish in New Mexico and Colorado does not mean I don’t fish in local lake that is fifteen miles away

        • He likely doesn’t go fishing in north NM now because he would probably be spotted by one of the many hunters, who might post online ” Hey I just met Forrest Fenn at such and such an area”
          Soon ravening hordes of treasure hunters would descend like a plague of locusts ravaging the countryside. So he probably avoids his old spots there.

          • Interesting thought. If its at his fishing spot(which we dont know it is)….he would have to give up fishing. If he flies in…people wouldn’t be able to follow. 

            Sent from my Samsung Galaxy™ S II 4GTHRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

      • Stephanie I don’t like you, I LOVE YOU! Just frustrating, you know! This treasure is mine, and it knows it to. This whole entire Chase by Mr. Fenn has been created for me and when you post links with great information about Forrrest Fenn and MONTANA and WYOMING it just makes me want to shred all my notes, my map, etc… One minute I believe I’m so to solving the Poem then you come up with this awesome information and links and BOOM shatters my hopes. Not your fault, Stephanie you’re only trying to help and I should be appreciative but going back to the drawing board after months of working on a certain area is no fun…but then again this Chase is suppose to be fun…right? Despite my knowing that the treasure is mine, and it knowing that it belongs to me makes it difficult to bare as I do not want to go all the way to WYOMING or MONTANA. Discouraged I am getting…maybe I just need to relax and step back for a while and refocus. Thanks Stephanie for all that you do for the Chase.

        • VG-
          Be careful of Stephanie-
          She might be leading you astray. She has been out looking this week for that heavy chest and I don’t think she was in WY or MT..
          Miss Sneaky Toes…

          • I told them not to stop looking everywhere. Are you concerned about us all going to visit you and the grizzes dal? I can’t search up there yet.

            Sent from my Samsung Galaxy™ S II 4GTHRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

        • Awww, now I’m cheating on my frienemy dal for you vg. By the way….the chest is mine. Im asking Forrest if he checks on it, to engrave my name on the chest. xoxoxox.

          Sent from my Samsung Galaxy™ S II 4GTHRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

    • Stephanie – thank you very much for that link. There is a reference in the paragraph right above his name on the FOI Member list about a barbeque and tour of the Spanish Diggings, which he mentioned in one of his stories on his blog. It is amazing that the Spanish made it all the way to Wyoming! It also mentions his member level is “Clovis Point”, which is kind of nice.

  90. Ok Stephanie your AWESOME finds are just shredding all my work that I’ve done for months…Thanks alot, Stephanie, not too happy about it as I will most likely go back to the drawing board. MONTANA and WYOMING, just great… : (

    • I’ve done many searches that I only later found out weren’t plausible and so think of it as saving you money if your finding that out too lol. I’m adding to my blog with some information I have of Forrest that I’m going to share too. I just put one up that talks about his homecoming from when he was shot down. It really takes you back to that time. I’m getting ready to leave for the airport to fly back home. Sure hope the plane has wifi as my emails are probably going to start bouncing. lol….

  91. Your thoughts on these interpretations?

    “So why is it that I must go” (he reflects on why he must go…)
    “And leave my trove for all to seek?” (…and hide his treasure)
    “The answers I already know” (he knows why …)
    “I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak” (…it’s because he feels that he is aging fast)

    “So hear me all and listen good,” (listen to what he has to say…)
    “Your effort will be worth the cold.” (…all of your outdoor excursions will be worth any discomfort)
    “If you are brave and in the wood “ (if you brave getting out and searching…)
    “I give you title to the gold.” (…he transfers ownership of his hidden riches over to you)

    • Dollarbill,

      I believe you are right on the money…no pun intended. One of the few that haven’t over analyzed the poem.

    • Dollarbill
      All of the above lines mentions him but two are mentioning somebody else, you
      so wherever he says you , it is part of the riddle

    • dollarbill
      Sounds good! Do you mind sharing what you feel the 9 clues are? I know it’s been debated before, but I’m just curious. You know I agree that not all the lines are actual clues.

    • I agree with the above interpretation. I have tossed around different views as to which lines are clues lately for a new approach I have started viewing lines 5 and 6 as one clue tho, no punctuation after line 5 where as all the other lines I consider clues have some sorta punctuation separating them.

      • I am glad that I am getting some agreement on the interpretations. You must thank oakleygirl if you go with them. I have to disagree with you that Lines 5 & 6 is one clue. Line 5 clues you where to begin. Line 6 clues you where to head.

        I can’t decide if Line 9 or Line 12 is the 9th clue. Maybe, like you propose, combined they are one clue.

      • Thanks! 🙂 I’d go with line 12 dollarbill. However, I’m not exactly sure which I think the 9 are yet. I think my best input at this point is the interpretation!

  92. If it gets any bigger we’re gonna have to rent a crane and rip Dal’s roof off to get it out of his house.

  93. Ahhhhh….please don’t move on to examining my image under a microscope as the brethren here have examined the poem. It means nothing…nothing…nothing….
    Just kidding!
    Just something different. I am not as clever as Stephanie who has a very nice photo of her painted toenails. I went with something more evocative of ghosts and pirates.

    • Oh come on Dal….switch to a photo of your toe nails painted…I never did bring up your ghostly image…but it really does scare me. Are you the meek? *off to lummi island*

    • @dal – Most people post under your most recent blog, veering away from your subject matter. Would it be difficult for you to develop other specific blog titles? Such as:

      Interpretations of FF’s poem and clues.
      Possible other FF clues.
      Locations that have been visited.
      Locations that might fit but have not been visited.
      About FF.
      General conversations.
      etc

      Your site is great and pulls many people in that are interested in the chase. I personally don’t mind filtering through posts that don’t interest me; however, I can sense your frustration.

    • I wasn’t veering, more-so curious. I’m digging the creepy feel. Steph thinks you should do a Glamour Shots in a pirate man-kini and a sword

      …………..DERP >.<

      LOL

  94. Stephanie – do you know what year Forrest and Donnie completed the building of the Dude Motel. I do not have the book.

    • Sheeessss…imagine that. Yup, you need a passport to go to freakin Canada now, ey? Darn things are getting expensive too.

  95. It’s not in the book. It was information Dal received from Forrest. I would imagine it was while he was in the air force though….I think this is Forrest’s timeline…childhood-Yellowstone and Temple Texas, then in his 20-30s he got married had two girls, went to Vietnam…I think during this time he also built the Dude. At the end of that time he opened a foundry in Lubbuck Texas where he lived with his family. Then they didn’t have a big art scene in Texas so he moved to Santa Fe with his family and opened the gallery with a partner in part by selling off some of his collection I think to the other partner and he opened his foundry in part of the gallery. I think the art just became too profitable compared to the foundry and so he cleared out the foundry to add more room for exhibits. He ended up buying out his partner…maybe that’s when he traded off some of the collection…to buy him out. Then he sold the gallery, but I think he still had some shares in it, but I don’t think he does anymore. The gallery is now for sale. I think I have pictures on my blog of the gallery which are fun to see. He bought San Lazero with the lady who bought the gallery from him and I think another silent partner. She was someone I believe he mentored. There’s way more I’ve researched and I have things I’m going to post to my blog to give more history on him.

    Where is everyone? I’m stuck in a blizzard in Denver and have no reading material…….does anyone have any search spots they want me to check out at the Denver Airport? Maybe this is the brave he was talking about…he did have that article written just for United Airlines. I’ll check all the pockets on the plane…maybe the chest is in there.

    • Stephanie
      So did they not offer to put you in a hotel instead of being stuck at the airport?
      I was stuck there once but they offered me a hotel or first class the next day , I was with a friend that I went with to a conference, he was staying over for a couple of more days and still had our hotel room and a big cadillac that I rented and got by using 2 upgrade coupons, So I told them I wanted 1st class the next day and called my friend to pick me back up. Well there was about 6 inches of snow on the road and it took my friend like an hour to get back to me usually a 10 minute drive, he said there were cars in ditches and stuck everywhere but the cadillac plowed right by them. So the next day I got champagne and food on my trip back to Albuquerque,

      • No they warned us on our first leg of the trip that they don’t offer anything like that. Wouldn’t that be cool to get a couple free tickets to fly anywhere I wanted…where do you think I’d go? The plan is still to fly out tonight in the blizzard. So if by chance I don’t make it…I think you should all find the chest and send it to my kids so they can buy more electronics…oh I’m kidding….Some girls here getting medical treatment. I have a feeling it was from turbulence. On the way here it felt like a roller coaster. It’s funny…if you said would you do this, this, this, this, this for a million dollars…I’d have said NOOOOO Way!!! Some how all these scary things sneaked into my resume. Hopefully the next flight will have wifi or I’ll go through withdraws just reading my books.

    • Hi Stephanie – sorry you are stuck…been there, done that. That was very nice of you to provide such a detailed time line and the links on your blog. I really studied the Clovis Points and am trying to solve the mystery of what the crescent shaped one is for. I also tried to find a way to view a 2004 Nova episode called “America’s Stone Age Explorers” that I found on IMDB that Forrest was involved in, but to no avail. It is not on the PBS site or Amazon, but I did find a couple of video programs on your PBS link site to watch later: Scientific American Frontiers featuring Alan Alda about Clovis points and whether or not the clovis people were first in North America. And thank you, Dal, for the completion date on the Dude Motel.

      • That video is online for free somewhere. I found it and watched it last year. It doesn’t show Forrest in it *shucks*..but it’s fascinating regardless to help understand what his collection of early man is about. One thing I remember learning from that video is that the Native Americans would need to find a place with lots of rocks as their home base to make the points. So heavy loads? If I survive tonight…and you haven’t found it…I’ll look in my mess of stalking material and send you a link.

      • Hi Stephanie – I would love to get the link to the “America’s Stone Age Explorers” when you have time. Tried Hulu too. Thank you!

      • Just think of those tail winds blowing you back to the windy city….btw, speaking of things people will do for a million dollars, have you ever seen the movie “The Magic Christian”? It was an old movie with Peter Sellers and Ringo Starr. Sellers was some kind of eccentric millionaire who gave away a million dollars to anyone who was willing to go get it. Problem was, the money was dumped into a huge above ground pool filled with urine, feces, blood and everything disgusting. People jumped in and splashed about just to get their hands on that dough. No poem to figure out, no clues to follow….just jump in that vat of utterly gross, putrified human waste and the money was yours. I think we should be very grateful that Forrest doesn’t have that kind of “humor”. It’s far more fun to read, research, decode and hike through the woods looking for hidden treasure *S*

        • Maybe the wind will blow me to the treasure. Gosh there are about 12 paramedics here taking care of this one girl….hmm. Gross!! I totally wouldn’t do that for a million dollars.

    • no I like the first 10 rows…I don’t want to survive a plane crash. Call me crazy…I don’t want to survive being eaten by a wild animal either. Death sounds fine by me in both those cases. If I don’t die…I want dibs on any extra lives though. I have too much to do.

      • Stephi, have a drink. You won’t feel a thing. last time I hit big turbulence I was heading back from Italy. The stewards were plying me with lemoncello and laughing at me while I spoke the only words I know in Italian. We stood in the back and I kept on drinking. I was hanging onto the back of one seat when the plane hit a pocket and I levitated about a foot off the floor. One male passenger came walking back toward us grabbing onto each seat as he stepped. With apparent worry in his eyes he asked if we were going to crash. The stewards looked at him and each other then offered him some lemoncello. We landed quite safely. It was quite a ride, however *S*

        • Bonnie
          Hate to out do your turbulence but when you fly in a turbo prop 16 seater or so from Albuquerque to Carlsbad in the summer the plane sometimes drops 100 feet or at least feels like it out of the sky because of the thermals and the engines go into overdrive due to no air resistance
          I am no aviation expect here so it does happen and may not be the true reasons just tryin to explain befoe a get refutted but that is really really scary and it feels like your stomach is stuck on the ceiling
          We tried not to fly there in the summer for work puposes or meetings because of that

          Funny story
          I was flying back East one time and an unfriendly catholic priest was sitting next to me,. midway thru the flight he sneezed and I turned to him and I said bless you father, he did’t even laugh

          • LOL….Tim, I know of what you speak. I used to manage a small float plane base in Duluth, MN (Sky Harbor AP). We ran small planes for GA out there routinely, twin beavers, piper cubs, J3’s and up. Our little favorite was a twin Aztec we’d use to run fishermen up to the Canadian wild. Our pilots were Alaskan trained bush pilots used to turbulence and fast changing weather patterns. Crazy guys those bush pilots. I never had a pilot’s license, but got to fly the Cesna 180 tri-prop over the Boundary Waters when we’d go up to the resorts. JO (the boss) taught my son how to fly a plane when he was six years old. Couldn’t reach the pedals, but he sure loved hanging with the pilots. He ended up with some pretty cool hand built balsa and tissue models the guys built. Pilots are kids at heart. No doubt. Kinda like flying a roller coaster sometimes. WEEEEEEEEEEEE

          • Bonnie
            Probably everyone is thinking that this plain plane talk on flying is nonesense but remember Forrest was a pilot and maybe its a perspective we should think about how he would view locations so things like google earth could be really useful maybe.

          • I think that’s where the new searchers are running into trouble…they don’t realize he was a pilot and not just a pilot…but was very often in his plane as a mode of general transportation. Even now he has ample opportunity to just decide to take off and go wherever he wants. I’m really starting to think that he set this up by saying things like North of Santa Fe and maybe he did say that about the desert to lead us astray. Can’t say for sure…but I’m suspicious…in a good happy suspicious way 😉 Now if the snow would just melt up north…I can go see if my suspicions are right.

          • Stephi, don’t forget to check that shiny spot thoroughly this time. Get your feet wet!!!!!

          • Ok…here is the video I was talking to. Pause the video at .03 and you will see the bronze spot. It doesn’t move…so it’s not like it’s a sun spot. Tell me that, that isn’t the freakiest thing….I spent a couple thousand dollars being excited about that spot LOL….It’s such a gorgeous place too. We went one day and you go through a bunch of mountains…then all the sudden the canyon opens up into this amazing valley area with mountains all around you. We did that one day and they were all lush and green…the next day they were all white with snow. I was so awestruck by that view. _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpe-7svpvY8_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpe-7svpvY8)

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