Looking in New Mexico…Part One

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dal…

1,027 thoughts on “Looking in New Mexico…Part One

  1. Move along nothing to see here you should head to Yellowstone with the hordes of other searchers.
    Just kidding I’m on the New Mexico bandwagon.

  2. Jwal
    I think it may a good idea for us to also state where in the state we are or what state of condition we are in
    I am currently sober, can drive, able bodied, 54 yrs old and located in Albuquerque so I can go look if someone would like but not at a drop on the dime There are some places that I will also not go like Baneliar or places I have already gone unless you can tell me a reason to go back
    So if you state where you are and a bunch of us are like in Albueuque we could maybe socialize and change our state of condition You can ask for me to go somewhere but please don’t get hurt if I refuse and please don;t tell me just to go to random location, it has to be credible
    dunbartim@hotmail.com

  3. Ok, I am not going to say it has to be New Mexico but I have a hunch that it is and here is some of my thinking. When FF originally had this idea of going to his grave with the treasure he had at best a few years to live. He had picked a place out that was special to him. In that case I would say Yellowstone because that is where his fondest memories are. However, that didn’t happen.

    Fast forward ten years or more and we now have FF alive and making bronze bells as a sort of “I was here” momento – similar in a way to the plate he found/tripped over at the waterfall in Vietnam. Now he has this treasure and wondering what he should do with it so he decides to give the bronze bell treatment and make it fun for others and in a way, connect with history in broader way just like the art that he would sell and people (children) touching George Washington’ nose or the paint that at one point was in the same presence of GW. Anyway … You get the idea.

    Somehow I don’t believe that FF intends to be buried with that gold any longer and has changed his tune. Hence his hiding it now while he is alive. So Yellowstone burial has receeded from view. Maybe his family had a say in the matter as well regarding burial. Now a decade plus later FF is nearing 80 and wants to hide the chest.

    New Mexico has been good to him and the astronomy by night archeology by day, the pueblos, and history and country side are rich in his veins. One thing I suspect about people regarding there treasures and heart is that they don’t like being to far away from them. Now that he is older he might want the treasure a little closer.

    He originally said in the mountains north of Santa Fe and I think he meant just that. The map in the book depicts rivers in the state of New Mexico. You can see the chama and other tributaries emptying into the Rio Grande. However, FF is a trickster of sorts. I imagine he got it in his mind that maybe he should expand the quest and so he started talking about the Rocky Mountains and opening up the search territory. Maybe the intent is to lesson the percentage of people all looking in one state while also opening up the beauty of the whole northwestern Rockies for people to explore and experience.

    These are some of my thoughts on why I think it is in New Mexico. They may be way off and I am biased about New Mexico because I live here. I am also open to the possibility that I am wrong. In that case my second hunch is somewhere in Yellowstone but that is just beyond my reach at the moment and I know nothing about it.

    One thing I think is very clear and that is when one gets the “warm waters halt” thing correct then everything flows very easily from there. Forest said a few got that correct but then went in the wrong direction or something like that . . . Missing the next clues.

    Good luck friends in the chase. New Mexico truly is the land of enchantment and so is the thrill of this chase.

    JP

    • Very logical reasoning and well put JP – I like your ideas! I’ve never been to the santa Fe area but am looking forward to visiting it ASAP!

      • Hey, come on out! It is a beautiful place especially the northern part where the mountains are. Well there are mountains everywhere and there is enchantment and beauty in its own way everywhere in the state. But the mountains are particularly beautiful! Cheers, JP

      • hi john.. i’m heading out in 6 days and was wondering if you could give me an idea of what kind of snow cover i’ll be in for.. for example will searching 8000 to 10000 ft elevations be possible? i really wish it could be a couple weeks later but the kids will be out of school so the time is now!

        • We actually have NM on our travel plans this fall to visit relatives in Albuquerque and Santa Fe – hope the treasure is still around! 🙂

    • JP,

      Great post. I have similar thoughts. I ask myself, Why did he write a book that included the clues for the hunt and make it available to only one book store in Santa Fe? Was it written and originally intended for locals?

      I especially enjoyed your ending. I had forgotten “Land of Enchantment” on NM license plates. I think it may be the state motto. That reminded me of a line in Mr. Fenn’s book (I read this in the excerpt on the TOTC website) that I think is one of the”scattered clues” he says are in the book. It reads “My church is in the mountains and along the river bottoms where dreams and fantasies alike go to play.” Enchantment… Dreams and fantasies… they kind of go together, don’t they?

      jd

      • Transplants to the state call it the ‘Land of Entrapment’ because once here you never leave.

      • One can utilize calibrations of consciousness/kinesiological muscle testing to narrow down the area. The testing bypasses the conceptual mind and emotional interest attached to the treasure itself. We tested many many times and reduced New Mexico into quadrants, then reduced quadrants further within the same inquiry. It really works and you can find local practitioners who will arrive at the same conclusion near pacheco canyon Dr in a small creek about 450 feet from a waterfall. You have to go when the creek isn’t covered in ice, facepalm*

    • Casey,

      It depends on where you go. In some mountains you can expect snow at 8,00 to 10,000 feet – there are not many mountains higher than 10K. It’s been a cold windy spring so far. It is suppose to start warming up soon.

      JP

    • I get the “warm waters” and all but one of the other clues, but what I don’t have is a ticket. No ticket, no treasure.

  4. Hello everybody. I’m in Albuquerque, and I moved here from Texas a few years ago. Growing up in Texas, I’ve been used to wide open spaces and venturing off-road to get to where you need to go. I’ve also been into the mountains and desert around ABQ quite a few times, but only recently was I aware of a thing called a G.A.I.N. (Gain Access Into Nature) Permit. Can anyone share a little more information about this permit for those of us who aren’t familiar with it, and perhaps advise us on where is the easiest place to obtain this permit if we plan on hunting for Fenn’s hide? Thanks for any information shared.

    • so, no information about the G.A.I.N. permit at all?! anyone?!…anyone?!…Bueller?!

      • cool, thanks for the link Stephanie. so, has anyone actually been asked to produce this permit while searching? I want to get one, but for those that don’t have one and are roaming around the wilderness out there, I assume there is a fine or a really really long jail sentence for anyone caught without a permit?!

        • I think that’s the reason Dal got a $15 ticket. Oh….that was in an article that I don’t think was released yet as it was being translated better than I could do…there was a German article where Dal took some German media searchers out. I believe he didn’t have a GAIN permit and that’s what the ticket was for….Dal? Is that right?

          • Yes…we went out to Cimarron but ignored getting a Park Pass. It only took the ranger about 10 minutes to find the vehicle and leave a nice ticket on the windshield. Unfortunately we were gone about an hour…The good news is that we only got one ticket. Lesson learned…buy a pass…You can do it on-line.

  5. One can only assume that if Forrest truly believes the treasure has been found, he would post that on his own page.

  6. I hope FF informs the world when he is certain the treasure is found. Until I near the words out of his mouth I will continue searching. I have not read his book yet but I am searching in NM as I live in Albuquerque and it is convenient for me. I too think NM is a good place to look and until I exhaust all NM possibilities…the search continues in this state.

    • ok, my son, his friend, Ronan and I went all along 68 through Taos to Rio Gorge Bridge, then up through Angel Fire to Vietnam Vets Memorial, through Cimmaron Forest and Cimaaron itself, past the Express UU Ranch and looked in huge drainage pipe, LOL, Spent night in Raton,NM. Closed towards Trinidad ,Co., due to snow.
      looked all over Eagle Nest Lake, it was cold and very windy, made sandwiches in car! Brr! Even looked in old dried out well at an old cabin, not there. 🙂 Orilla Verde Recreation area and hiked up a canyon creek with big boulders and dry. Saw Grafitti under bridge BNS, not there. BUT… we had a great time. 🙂

      • Finding the treasure on Monday like I planned didn’t pan out. Nothing I’ve planned is working out.

        • Patricia-
          Sorry to hear about the issues…
          I bet I know the crummy motel you stayed at. I found one like that in Eagles Nest. It was a chain motel and I needed a place to stay with heat so my truck didn’t work out. The place was filthy. The manager was right out of a bad movie. The other “residents” of the motel were not folks I would have trusted my daughter to be near…if I had a daughter…
          Fortunately, the rest of Eagles Nest was a delight, the rock shop, The sports store, the cafe with real interesting characters. They even have a library there with free wifi. I had fun there but not at that chain motel…

          The St. James in Cimarron is a wonderful place…Stephanie has stayed there. The food was great. I went there with the German press folks. It is a colorful and enjoyable remnant of the rich history of the area.

          • Dal
            Was that the Econo Lodge motel in Eagles Nest on the East side of town?
            I was there in Sept. 2011 and it had no air conditioning so we had to leave the door open for air.
            I did like the free breakfast waffles and the meeting room upstairs did have a fridge and stove but I found nothing edible there and no games but checkers in the game room. The WIFI was out as well and they said they had WIFI. It was an older motel but my room was relatively clean, but it was like 70 bucks since it was off season which I thought was high but I needed a bath and bed so I paid it.

          • Tim-
            Had to look at Google Earth to see what the name of the place was…Yes…Econo Lodge… wifi didn’t work when I was there either. Room was nasty. I can’t remember what I paid but I am certain it was steep…probably the same. I wanted to stay at some little cabins up near the cafe but they weren’t open yet..it was early May and very cold. The lake was still frozen over. Plenty of snow on the ground.

          • I’m sitting in a parking lot about 3 miles from our room just so I can do a few things on the internet. I will have to make sure I never stay at the place you had in Eagle’s Nest, but no we are in Angel Fire. It’s at the Angel Fire Cabin share (Phase 1?) and it’s an RCI resort. Usually I love RCI resorts and I stay in them often. A little known perk that RCI owners get is that they can buy extra weeks often for really good prices. You can buy a guest pass for an extra $50 so a friend or relative can stay. I can’t afford a membership but thankfully my brother and my uncle Santa Claus both have them. Uncle Santa was kind enough to give me a few points so I could get an even better deal on this room. We also decided that since we were delayed and had so many problems (and we didn’t spend much money on other things, that we would take a peek at the last call rooms for Pagosa Springs and see if we could swing it. Instead of heading home on Sunday we will be headed there. We agonized for a few days over rather we should spend an extra $269 (plus tax) but we decided that we need to heal our souls more than we need to do some other things that need to be done. I don’t have anywhere to search around there and my place here I just ran into more problems. Like the path I thought was there seems to be on private property or at least I can’t figure out how to access it without a lot more searching on dirt roads that are not marked. (I kept hitting no trespassing roads) The other access would be a walk of over a mile down a river bed. I’m not adverse to that as it might very well satisfy the “cold” clause (and I’m guessing that someone could float it down the river while fly fishing if they were so inclined) but it’s not the right time of year since I think the water is a bit too deep and I wouldn’t be able to do it with a 5 year old and a man with 2 fake hips. I have 2 other places I wanted to search one you have already been too and the other is much further down stream. But I can’t do both and I really wanted to see the hot springs and take that hike, even before I ever heard about Forrest Fenn and his treasure. So I think I’m going to just go for the fun hike and save the search for our next trip or the one after if it’s still out there. I have no ideas for places to search in S. CO. If I had internet I’d be searching for one right now. But it’s cold in the car and I have to sell a few more (OK quite a few more) cross stitch patterns to fund our extra week. We have done some beautiful drives and visited amazing places. Met some great people and made some memories we will always treasure. We were blessed to meet a wonderful man at the Taos Pueblo in one of the shops. His name was Water Crow and he was so very nice to my son. We were honored by the way he treated him and us. All of the people there were friendly and we learned so much. I hope my son learned some of the lessons I thought were more important than math and reading. (Not that those aren’t very important too) Today we drove down to Chimayo to a very special church to gather some dirt and pray for miracles. A beautiful, stunning drive. The small church held so much hope and promise. I took some extra dirt for those I know who need a miracle. I pray that it might help my husband with the constant pain he has lived with for years and maybe it will help to heal my spirit and if it’s needed my body. We have enjoyed our trip and although I’m a little disappointed that I won’t make it to my spot so I can come back and humbly admit that I was wrong, or better yet sing in joy that I was right. (very unlikely, since there are hundreds of other places that will likely fit just as well) It is nothing I will fret over. I do however want to share my thoughts and ideas with a few other people who might be willing to share a bit of the treasure should my ideas help them discover the hiding place. I am just not sure I’m ready to lay it all out on an open blog. Especially if someone who found it wouldn’t share where it was with me. I think I worry more that I’ll never know where it was hidden than I do that I won’t be the one to find it. I still believe that having Forrest meet the person who finds it (at the hiding spot) so that there is no question that he is giving his property to them would take any risk of the the government being able to lay claim to the whole thing. After all it’s not lost, it’s stashed for someone to retrieve at a later date. I’d better go to bed. Long day tomorrow if we are going to take that hike.

          • Patricia, that little church in Chimayo is a very special place and magical as well. The country around there is spectacular. Sanctuario de Chimayo is the most visited Catholic holy spot in all the Americas. Thousands each year make the pilgrimage there. Around Easter many walk from as far as Santa Fe by foot to that little church. All the crutches hanging on the walls are a testament to the miracles that have occurred there.

            Sorry for your troubles. I hope you have fun in Pagosa Springs. The mountains are pretty over there. Antonio, Co would be a fun spot if the train was running but it is too early. The Rio Grande is tucked under the west face of Ute Mountain in the San Luis Valley. That mountain is a volcano so be careful over there. 😉

            Anyway, I hope you take back with you many wonderful moments to treasure for a lifetime. Sorry you could not get to your location but rest assured, even with the thousands coming out here, something tells me that nobody is going to find that treasure anytime soon.

            It will still be waiting here for you to come back! -JP

          • I tried to leave a reply here but I think it ended up further up the page somehow. Yes the church was beautiful and so peaceful. So far no miracle but I am sure they can take time. Since I came into this hunt late and focused in on the area I was going to be in anyway I have never put much thought into other places it might be. I hope to find a partner to search my spot for me while I sit at home and scheme up other places that fit the clues. I really don’t believe that home of Brown has anything to do with Brown Trout or any other thing that can be found in more than one spot. I feel that it is a specific spot and my home of Brown was actually a structure. Although I am only guessing that “Brown” actually lived there he did own it and run a business from it, so it seems like he must have at least part time. I heard the clue that the treasure isn’t associated with any structure but unlike some I don’t take that as “none of the clues are.” Just that you don’t have to go tearing up property searching for it. I wonder if the “Marvel gaze” has to do with the treasure or with where it’s hidden. Here in TX we have some caverns that have areas filled with crystal formations. We stopped “Long Horn Caverns” after going to Joe’s cousin’s funeral about a year ago and saw one such place. It was like a fairy wonderland. I wonder if Forrest could have found a place that when you peek in you are so enchanted with the view that some even forget to look for the box that is nestled somewhere in there. I don’t believe that he hid it underwater and I have a hard time believing that it is totally exposed to the elements. But as we know there are few places that are impervious to them all the time and if Forrest was really thinking in terms of centuries or eons. The more I think about it the more sure I am that it is on public land and it would likely need to be important public land that he was sure would never be developed. Otherwise it could be discovered, destroyed or covered when someone decided to build on the land. At the very least the land would have to be protected in some way and he would have to have some reason to believe that someone he designated would have the right to access and remove the treasure with his permission, not just while he is alive but long after he is dust. If it was me I’d be torn between wanting it found while I was alive and not wanting it found for a few hundred years.

          • PGW-
            Per your last line. Forrest has said that exact phrase. So you and he think exactly the same.
            Forrest Burke Fenn = 16 letters.
            Patricia Gibson – Williams = 21 letters
            Coincidence???

  7. I’m still in the northern NM southern Colorado camp myself. Every thread of a clue I’ve followed keeps leading back to the same general area. I think it’s somewhere he is familiar with in the present (or at least the last few years.)

  8. I too “believe” it is in New Mexico; at least that’s where “my spot” is for now. But I keep looking for other spots until I can get out there and find out for myself. As the old saying goes: “The greatest obstacle to discovering the truth is being convinced you already know it.”

  9. I don’t believe that an 80 yr. old man especially one that’s acquired years of wisdom would want to travel far nor have too given who Forrest Fenn is. Besides, he traveled alone, which for others may be a cautious trip in of itself.

    • There are many seeming and plausible motives that can support Fenn’s choice of either New Mexico or Yellowstone or ?

      • And is it somewhere he’s pointing us to or is it somewhere completely different? He’s never said he was going to tell us the location….That’s partly why I spent a trip looking in Idaho…he just mentions it once in his book…but it’s mentioned in the Flywater book and things fit.

      • A lot of seekers point to “sentimental reasons” for both New Mexico and Yellowstone. But some say that “practicality” or “convenience” may over-ride sentiment. Wouldn’t it be easier for Fenn to hide the treasure in New Mexico? Sure, but this is a big deal for Fenn, a legacy born of sentiment. Fenn would have no problem (financial or otherwise) arranging everything necessary to trek to Yellowstone (or any other distant location) to hide the loot..

        • From what I’ve learned about Forrest…he wouldn’t skimp out by going the easy route. Look at his book…the quality and richness of the paper and photos, etc. If his special place is in Yellowstone for example…why would he take the easy route and put it in NM? I’m just curious…but if we all think of our special place…is it really that close to where we are right now? Mine is 6 1/2 hours north of me.

          • Steph
            I think if he loved another place better why does he live in Santa Fe then. One answer I think is If he did he couln’t play in the archeological, historical and geological sandbox and he wants his bones and chest to be like bison bones discovered.
            Hint Hint
            Double hint you can’t find an archeological treasure unless somehow it is exposed somehow.

          • But…what about his love for Yellowstone and fishing? He’s multifaceted…..and I chose to live where I live, but yet love the place I spent as a child which isn’t here….and and and if you had Christmas every day…would it be as special? Ok…just playing devil’s advocate there since I have no clue where it is…..anyone want to come over and fold laundry with me or for me so I can keep posting? One shirt…ten posts….it’s going to take me longer to do laundry than find the chest…maybe wrinkled clothes will come in style brought on by this endeavor Forrest has sent us on.

          • Steph
            Yes it could be anywhere in the Rockies but if you can only afford to go somewhere once or a few times to look for it the odds I think and I am only quesssing here that would be in New Mexico. Yes f could go anywhere but for him to go dig in the sandbox it is easier if it closeby, and so for the chest if he had to go back to get it for some reason. So go look at Dal’s categories what area has the biggest post so far so I think most people agee it may be NM but not all agree it is.
            Maybe we will find out tomorrow. So if you live in another state please go for it there cause that way it is still fun and cheaper and who knows it may be there but match most of the clues first.

          • Your logic says to go where more people are looking or have looked? I’ve looked in NM, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado….and looked out the window in Utah…..so I haven’t been partial to any one state…but I have thought to myself…if so many people are searching NM…does it make sense that it’s there? Especially since we know only one group figured out the first two clues? Seems to me that they figured them out somewhere not many have gone…but yet many have passed…dang…Colorado on the way up to Yellowstone…just figured that out now *smile*

          • That would be New Mexico….Cimarron mostly…I really love that area a lot. My trips aren’t all that long though usually, because I have obligations here with my family and my Dad who’s got Parkinson’s and depends on me. He gets really upset and mad at me if I leave town. So most of my trips are like 3 or 4 days which is why I’ve made so many instead of just a few long ones. I’d love to spend a couple weeks out there though. *dream* *dream* *dream*

  10. If FF drove to hide his million dollar treasure, that he had in hand, my bet is that it is in New Mexico.

    If FF flew to hide his treasure, my bet is that it is far from NM but near an airport.

    Was he still flying at the time he hid the treasure?

    • Yes, was his private pilot license still valid and did he still have access to a small plane, is a good question to ask/know and if so he could have flown up to WY (where the best 4 days of his life were spent) and rented a car, drove out near Pitch Fork etc. etc.

  11. I think most folks looking in New Mexico (and elsewhere) are taking this 24-line poem way too literally. If it is to be taken literally, there are only a few lines that are in play and those few lines are so vague as to make it impossible to find a finite spot. I think the poem is a puzzle that has to be solved before anyone should bother making trips into the woods. I’m a puzzler from way back (cryptography, anagrams, and the like) so that is the angle I’m pursuing. Having said that, there are a few allusions to spots and those lead to New Mexico — so I’m on the New Mexico train. What I think you’ll need are pushpins and thread — the clues will lead (one after another) until they eventually create a shape — you’ll know it when you see it. I also believe the poem’s stanzas need to be reordered, otherwise there is duplication that is unexplainable. For example, you don’t need “take the chest and go in peace” but also need “if you are brave and in the wood, I give you title to the gold.” Either you took the chest or you didn’t. Some think that 3 stanzas are throw-away. That might be true if the puzzle is to be taken literally. But if it is ANYTHING other than literal, then each stanza is equally important. Take this line, for example: “I can keep my secret where,” is utter nonsense. The line makes NO SENSE. So the obvious reason it would be there is because for a solution, Forrest needed the word “where” to appear exactly where it does. Things like that are what we all need to be working on.

    • I like your train of thought here. I have also been perplexed by why certain words and phrases are used, when many other words would have “fit” into the poem more easily or more appropriately IF the poem were simply for literal purposes. There has to be a reason why the sentence structure is just so.

    • I can keep my secret where
      I take that to be a question to potential searchers. And then you have to figure out the poem to answer it.

      • Jwhal, you were wondering if anyone else had the same interpretation as you. I have read every one of your posts and not one deviates from a spot I was working on last year, Every single statement that you make appears to match a location I had investigated but was not talking about. It all seemed to simple and matched so well to the poem. Alas, once I got to the spot, it was not what it appeared to be in Google Earth. I am not trying to imply that I was searching the exact location you appear to have found, because NM is a big place, but I have found that The Chase is not all that simple.

      • Hopefully the worse thing that could happen is it will turn in to a nice vacation.

    • I think part of the poem can be taken at face value, though I would suggest that Fenn is also dealing in misdirection, cagey as he is. But it does seem that the entire puzzle must first be solved intellectually before one actually begins the physical search. For me, the riddle is largely solved by correctly answering 3 “clues”: “warm waters halt,” “below the home of Brown,” and, “blaze.” However, this does not suggest that there are not other helpful clues; not far, no paddle, water high, worth the cold, etc. There are also 2 lesser clues that I have yet heard anyone address. 1) Why does Fenn use “up YOUR creek”? Perhaps he’s telling us that the location is on PUBLIC land / water. 2) “tarry scant” may indicate that the location of the treasure is in a place where others might be closeby, Perhaps it’s Fenn’s warning against have your treasure stolen by force if you don’t conceal it. My 2 cents.

      • Maybe most are too young, but the meaning of “up a creek without a paddle” means you are SOL — outta luck – bad luck or no luck at all. So maybe it’s a clue to ‘taking leave of a place with a name like luck or bad luck or something like that……..

      • I think that’s what the saying is….up YOUR creek…you don’t say up MY creek without a paddle and I don’t think he owns a creek that I know…I guess most of us don’t either….who owns the creek gosh darn it?? They must know where the treasure is…..lol Just being funny…. As for what you were saying…don’t you think the canyon would be the main starting point and then figure which way the elevation goes in the canyon to know if it can even be viable? So I think that’s a big clue for me when I’m searching besides the water sources.

        • The saying is up”A” creek without a paddle. Public land is available to everyone. If the location is on public land, then the Feds and private property owners have no claim to the looy. FF would know this.

        • Certainly “canyon down” is an important clue, but it would be easily solved or answered if one knew where “warm waters halt.” The canyon would then be likely obvious.

      • the use of the phrase “up your creek” instead of “up a creek” leads me to believe this is a clue of “some kind”, whether its a literal clue or part of a larger puzzle within the poem, I don’t know. it seems very deliberate though. hmmm…I’ve been watching waaaay too much of the TV show “Elementary”! can you tell?!

        • Just curious…but is anyone aware of a creek named Stephanie? If so, I’m heading out tomorrow…because I think I know where it is. *playful tease*

        • What if “your” creek means that it is publically owned; it belongs to all of us. Perhaps FF wanted to put the treasure in a place where the Feds or some prior owner would not have first dibs.

      • I agree with Spire that up “your creek” implies up a public creek, a creek in the public’s domain or a creek open to the public for enjoyment.

        • I am new to these blog sites, but I was wondering if there has been any discussion about the Jemez Mountains being the possible location for Fenn’s treasure. There are several hot springs there “where warm waters halt.” San Antonio “Creek,” which runs through San Diego “canyon,” is an upper tributary of the Jemez River where “Brown” Trout are prolific (didn’t I read somewhere that Fenn liked fishing for Brown Trout?). This creek is generally described as a series of rocky riffles and rapids punctuated by deeper pools (“water high?”). While the Jemez Mountains are more West than North of Santa Fe, they are included within the Santa Fe National Forest (“in the wood”) whose center is directly North of Sante Fe, but expands greatly both East and West. Most think of the Santa Fe National Forest as North of Santa Fe.

          • I searched the Jemez and that’s where the Today Show was during their first Forrest interview. I believe that’s still the same area that Dal doesn’t believe it can be, because it’s not North enough. I went there after reading about the Soda Dam and how that’s a geological type thing that was created when the warm water halted at the cold river. I know others have also searched there, but didn’t find anything. That’s not saying much though, because it very well could be places under a rock that none of us picked up.

      • Just another thought on the up YOUR creek. The line is: There will be no paddle up your creek.
        To paddle up a creek means you are in trouble and your situation is hopeless. So in his phrase, he is actually saying “it isn’t a situation you can’t get out of. Have hope. ”
        Because he says there will be NO paddle up YOUR creek – it means that your particular situation isn’t hopeless.
        Just another thought 🙂

        • I agree with your aseessment, but I still wonder about “your” creek. Might Fenn be saying that this is public domain? Not fedral land nor private property?

        • heebeejeebez
          Doesn’t it seem like there should be more than jut the poem maybe to solve the location, follow me here
          I don’t know is a creek called a poem anywhere?
          So what I am alluding to is maybe you have to find the blaze then start the poem over again from that location to find the chest. Using just the poem how could you go from anywhere in the world and then down to a liitle 10x10x5 box just using the few lines in a poem?
          This baffles me cause I can get to a place where I think a blaze is and brown is but then that area is like 10 square miles and I get stuck, so to me there should have been more lines to help once i get in that situation, so starting the directions again could do that I suppose.
          I am just thinking outside that empty chest here?
          Do anyone understand that it is too short to find a little box anywhere in the world north of santa fe?
          then later when he said in the roclies?

          • I agree to an extent. I don’t think the poem as is is enough. I think we need to have the key to the poem.
            As someone mentioned, there could be codes hidden in the message…god knows Forrest learned a few in his war times.
            Or the poem could be a summary of a historical event. Or a chain of events.
            What I don’t think is its a map in itself. I don’t think it is very literal. He’s is the master of double entendres. Every key word has multiple meanings.
            So I agree all you need is the poem, if you think like Forrest. But because we don’t… We need his book and each other. And a sandwich, flashlight and GPS. 😉

    • Gotcha Stance… Ill finish these comments and put mine at the end (look for the date about july 2 or 3)… too much psychobabble about “Foster loves it here, no, he loves it there.” He loves everywhere!… look for the clues in the poem, not his travel history.

  12. Oh I think New Mexico may be a good possibility, alongside a certain region of Colorado. There are some hard to find but not entirely obscure factoids that narrow down an area in NM which I am anxious to visit to look for treasure and to look around where I’ve never been before. Good luck with the cryptography. It’s an interesting theory!

    • kathy i have an uneasy feeling about your location:) sounds like we may be looking at the same region.. let me look first lol

    • Wouldn’t it be funny if we were all planning to look in the same spot and we bumped into each other all trying to look without attracting attention. We are leaving for our trip on Friday or Sat. Staying in Angel Fire. Mostly seeing the sites, but I will check out my spot if the trail is not too steep once I get there. So hard to tell from the Topo maps. I’ve been looking into other hikes I want to take and things we want to do and I have a place I’d like to put a geocache but that one I can’t figure out if I can get to it this trip or not.

  13. One thing to keep in mind is the weight of that box. Even if he made two trips, 20 to 25 pounds is a lot to carry. Find a twenty five pound car battery and try walking any distance with it in the woods or along a rocky stream. You won’t get very far. Try it with a 50 to 75 lb. battery and you might make it a 100 feet before stopping for a rest.

    • I totally agree JP. Regardless of what some may think, the treasure would most likely not be very far at all from some kind of road. It could very well be just a few feet off a forest service road in a grove of trees with underbrush around and you’d never see it unless there was a “blaze” to point the way.

        • Steph, I don’t have my book yet but there’s no reason to believe the treasure is not a short distance off a road – some place he could drive to and then twice walk a short distance depositing his treasure and then walking back to his car. I believe he mentioned he “smiled” as he walked back to his car, but I don’t remember where I read it.

          • I agree. I think it’s within a half mile…but I wouldn’t rule out a mile as it took two trips from what I understand…that’s hearsay, but it was my husband who said it and he gets things right 86% of the time.

      • I don’t rule that out, however I would say that given what I’ve read about Forrest Fenn assuming that he could not have carried the weight a mile or more if it was important to him would be foolish. I would guess that he could do a mile out rather easily if he took it in 2 trips. With a back pack and time to rest along the way he could do much further if he had a mind too. I’ve seen what older people can do that would amaze some of us. At 90 my MIL would put many young people to shame with how far she could walk that work she could do. She was an amazing woman and as I sit hear an look at the flowers from yesterday thinking of her reminds me not to underestimate someone of any age.

        • Patricia, I know many seniors over 70 who are in excellent shape, who hike and ski and could easily walk a mile or more with a 20 lb pack. What I’m thinking is that it’s really not necessary for the treasure to be a mile or more down a trail. With all the underbrush, rocks, etc around in the mountains or by streams, the treasure could be a few feet away from you and you wouldn’t know it unless you were looking for, and aware of the “signs”, (a blaze maybe?) Forrest hopefully has placed so when someone is at the correct location, they will know exactly where to look. At least I hope there will be a “blaze” or I’ll never find it. My interpretations of the clues only get me to a general area! 🙂

          • Just what kind of blaze are you folks expecting? He may have carved his initials in trees in his backyard, but they are HIS trees. I’m leery that he would deface a tree in the forest, and I’m even more leery that he would paint a blaze on a rock……

          • The blazes that Forrest showed in the blog don’t look as if they were carved into a tree to me, it looks like some kind of sprayed material that will maybe flake off after a few years and wouldn’t harm a tree. There are way-markers such as piles of rocks in certain configurations that indicate whether to turn right, left, go straight etc. We do not know what kind of blaze Forrest left for searchers of his treasure, but we may recognize it when we see it.

          • I heard somewhere that F put thought into his treasure possibly being found a thousand years from now. That would require markers, indicators, etc lasting for a long time. To me, a making on a tree wouldn’t qualify.

          • I think that may have been an off-the-cuff remark and maybe was not meant to be taken literally. I don’t think everything Forrest says or has Dal post on this blog is a clue – he may be having fun with us! 🙂 The treasure probably could be hidden and not found for a thousand years but I imagine that just about any blaze could be wiped out by mother nature – rock slides, fires, floods, etc. What do you think? 🙂

        • jwhal… good demo. similar thoughts here, a blaze for a 1000 years is not a blaze of aspens or a blaze of blue wild flowers… and probably not a man made one either. Its probably a natural mark in stone… a ribbon of colored stone or an odd shape outcropping.

      • Stephanie,

        I had to carry a 50 lb car battery in the woods this weekend. It took three long slow walks with stops in between to make it 100 yards. One doesn’t move fast carrying that kind of “heavy load/s”. I sure feel it in my legs and back today!
        🙂

        JP

        • The obvious question to me is….why were you carrying a 50lb car battery in the woods? hmmm. Something fun must be going on back there. I think he made two trips…one 20lb and another 20lb trip from what he told my husband a couple years ago. It’s hearsay though…but I believe it to be true….my husband’s usually right 😉 I know one time he was *smile*

    • I think one may be misconstrued by the mere thought of an older man literally holding a 20 lb chest with his hands. I believe he used a backpack of some sort to help carry that, increasing the distance he could have went with the chest.
      Try this experiment at home:

      Lift a 20 lb weight with both hands and carry it to a certain spot until you are tired.
      Rest for 30 minutes.
      Ne

      • xt put the weight in a backpack and carry it as far as you can go. You will find the distance to be quite farther than originally thought. Another side note to this is, noone would be able to have seen Forrest with his treasure chest…

    • Carrying 20, or even 45, pounds in a large backpack would make a big difference. One could carry that load a much longer distance than if carried by hand.

  14. If anyone is going to search NM then you should use this app and web site nmroads.com to help check road conditions. There are other sites for other states that are linked off that one as well.

    As for searching NM. I think it’s been so over searched I’d be surprised if it was there. There have been news stories there for the past few years…but not up north. It’s also important to know that he’s still is a great driver and he has family members who still fly and he can go anywhere at any time. That’s just some background info for anyone who is curious. He said in one of Dal’s scrapbook blogs that flying to an airport and taking a car from there was one of his favorite things to do.

  15. Let’s talk about concrete things. He says the poem has 9 clues in it. Well there are exactly 9 verbs that give us a DIRECTION to follow – coincidence?

  16. there are two adjoining words in the poem, that for me have revealed a literal “distance” of travel. if someone else has discovered the same possible clue and would like to discuss it, or would like to know how I found the distance, send me an email at “diamonddave247 at hotmail”. put the two words of the poem in the subject line.

  17. I think the words “put in” are being assumed to mean something it does not – consult any dictionary — the only nautical meaning is to dock or enter a harbor

    to call at or enter a place; especially : to enter a harbor or port

    • I am an avid canoeist and kayaker. When planning a trip down a river or on a lake, one always speaks of where to put in: a gravel bar, campsite, portage trail, etc. However, perhaps what the poem is saying here is that it is one’s own physical body that needs put in the water.

      • I think this is very interesting as I’m not a boater really…that put in could mean your at a pier. Seeing the photo of the chest….I’ve always thought it’s sitting on a pier.

    • Other associated words for “put in” are: store, stash away, lay in, stick in, insert, introduce, submit.

    • _http://www.dougscottart.com/Books.htm_ (http://www.dougscottart.com/Books.htm) This guy has a book on them. He originally gave the info for free and if you google his name along with the name of the fall your looking for…a page will probably come up that’s not on his web site that you can view for free. I believe unbeknownst to Forrest…he’s probably made Doug Scott a wealthier man.

      • Steph
        Wait a minute here, I thought way back in 2011 you were’nt the waterfall kinda girl and I was the original waterfall guy, oh well its not up Maverick Falls or Lost Creek Falls. Now since I called you on that history please email me what waterfall it is under or nearby.
        So you missed my subtle hint when I said that I was the 3rd person to go to Lost Creek falls, that being Kit Carson then Doug Scott then me huh.

        • I’m still not a waterfalls kind of girl right now…but I’ll give a hint…don’t trust anything I say, because I have no clue where the treasure is *yet*. I post things on my blog…then I regret it and take it down because I revisit the idea or it works with a new solution. A waterfall was my first thought, because he said he “owed” the waterfall…so I thought it would be some sort of offering…and it’s a way water can be high without it being in water which I think is more likely since he said he put one piece that could rust in a zippy. I suppose it could also be in wax too though..I don’t know. I’m lost and I’m not even in the woods at the moment.

    • Yep on that one. I had stumbled on his website and looked through a lot of them when I was looking for info on a particular one. Suazo Falls still sits on the list but it doesn’t line up strong enough to not keep getting pushed to the bottom.

    • I’ve yet to really see a waterfall on my search…I think I saw one in South Dakota…but I was just on my way to searching. I think it would be really cool. My husband saw one up in Colorado…It was at the Cumbres station for their train..there’s a park back there we thought it was in and he dug under the waterfall. If you look back on Dal’s blog a couple years where Forrest answered emails the first time…you’ll see a bunch of branches in a pile and Forrest had replied something about Clark Kent and right and left handled shovel…that was an email to us after sending him the photo of the log jam.

  18. I think that all the clues I’m finding are just driving directions for a ‘short drive, long memories’ type thing lol 🙂

  19. Here is the BIGGEST mistake that searchers are making……the treasure is hidden ‘north of Santa Fe’ but the steps/clues to getting there DO NOT HAVE TO BE NORTH OF SANTA FE. For example (although I don’t think so) some think one of the clues is the Jemez (west of Santa Fe) and that would work just fine if it’s not the site of the find. As would Arizona, Texas, etc…….

    • Stance-
      I strongly doubt that you know each and every searcher. You have no idea what our biggest mistakes are. If you continue to inject your personal opinions on us as fact I will disallow you from posting on this site. Be polite…
      If you have an idea or you want to announce your personal opinion about something please make certain it is preceded by something like:
      I think
      I believe
      In my opinion
      etc

      If you believe it to be fact, please cite your reference so we can trust it as fact.

  20. I didn’t get one single response to my post about 9 actions to be taken at Forrest’s direction. He says there are 9 clues in the poem. Well he also inserts exactly 9 verbs or directions for us to take: Begin, take, put (in), look, tarry, take, go, hear, listen — that’s it — 9 and 9 only. Don’t you think that’s important?

    • Stance
      Soooo quite we’re still thinking
      Hey at least I responded and it might be important but if you think it is can you tell me why cause I see no reson why it should

  21. Well the Jemez are NOT part of the Rockies – there’s no convincing to it – the point it that it doesn’t matter if Jemez is one of the clues — it just can’t be the FINAL place

    • From a national park website: “Along with the Sangre de Cristo range, 35 miles distant across the Rio Grande valley, the Jemez Mountains form the southernmost tip of the Rocky Mountains.” The treasure can be located within.

    • Stance-
      That is completely inaccurate information. The US Geological Survey says that the Jemez Mountains are the southern extent of the Rocky Mountains. There are a lot of individuals out there who think they know better than the USGS but for my money the USGS is THE source for all things geographic about this country. That’s why they exist. So stop passing out dubious information and claim it to be fact.

    • The jemez SURE are apart of the Rockies it doesn’t take much research to find out this is true….

      • No need to dig up any outhouses. The treasure is not associated with any structure!

      • Of course you are correct that the Jemez mountains are part of the rockies. I was absolutely wrong when I posted that — had an outburst that was inappropriate and I apologize to all.

  22. Dal, in your Tips From Forrest, you mention that FF said it’s in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe. I see in one of his emails he says: “The treasure chest certainly is in the mountains somewhere north of Santa Fe, and that is a clue.” On his OSFTC site, in The Thrill Resource Page, it says: “This book is the remarkable true story of Forrest Fenn’s life and of a hidden treasure, secreted somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe.”

    Are you willing to tell me/us if his Rocky Mountains tip is in his book or someplace on his OSFTC site? I don’t have his book and I am not that familiar with his OSFTC site. Why I ask is that maybe he is saying “rocky mountains” and not “Rocky Mountains”.

    • dollarbill-
      Not in his book. He made the Rocky Mountains clarification quite recently. Well after the book was written.

      That quote came from a few places. Mostly in oral or video interviews. In the written evidence I have he capitalizes Rocky Mountains. I assume that is what you are looking for. I will have a difficult time demonstrating that this is true because of where they appeared, but let me try. One written quote came in a response Forrest sent to a reporter in Germany who had sent questions for Forrest to answer for his newspaper. Here are two questions and Forrest’s exact response:

      R: How big is the area in which the chest could be hidden?
      FF: I said in my book that the treasure is somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe, NM,

      R:I read that the only specification on the location is “north of Santa Fe”. Is this correct?
      FF: No, I have also said that it is in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe.

      The paper is located here:
      http://www.bild.de

      I searched but could not find the FF story…
      Although the story about the cannibal nuns does look interesting…

      He has told many people in emails that it’s in the Rocky Mountains, including me. Here is a note Forrest sent me:

      I have said that the treasure is hidden somewhere in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe, and that I advise any searchers to wait until spring or summer to do their searching. The mountains can be treacherous in the winter and terribly unforgiving. f

      So that’s as good as I can dig up…
      Hope it helps…

  23. Amateur armchair hunter here. I just want to share some thoughts with some of you looking for the treasure. If my observations or insights help you find it, great. Just buy me a beer if you do!

    I don’t believe the treasure is in water or buried. (see my 3/26 post about those who are searching in Yellowstone as to why).

    The clue “home of brown” intrigues me. Here is something I thought of. Maybe its nothing, but you decide.
    Brown University is located in Rhode Island. An old nickname of RI is “Little Rhody”.
    There is a pueblo near Albuquerque named “Isleta Pueblo” or “Little Island Home” in spanish.
    Good hunting!

  24. Dal, looks like this blog had a hiccup too. The posts at the bottom (ray / Mar 23 2013 12:03 pm and Kym / Mar 25 2013 5:25 pm) are out of order and stay at the bottom of the thread. Maybe China/North Korea are after FF’s chest and were attacking your blog site because your bloggers seem to be getting so close to cracking the poem. I could be in trouble now. If their listening, I don’t think pink toe nails can even help me out after exposing their plot. I know what to do. I don’t have the slightest idea where the treasure is!!!!!! Neither does my future searcher Stephanie!!!!!! FF told us that he hid it in Iran’s Garden of Eden!!!! Someone call Vineet Kumar!!!!

  25. Leaving tomorrow. Was expecting to leave today, but with all the time spent with my MIL the last few weeks and then the funeral and all the other stuff last weekend we were exhausted and behind. I am still not finished packing. We really need this break and are looking forward to it. Will anyone be in the Angel Fire or Taos area while we are there? Might be fun to meet somewhere public and say hello if we can make our schedules fit. We will be in the area from Sunday to Sunday. Withing to see what the weather is like and how tired we are before we decide how to narrow down all things I’d love to do and the places I’d love to see to a manageable number. I am having hard time convincing my husband to take a hike to my “spot.” Sadly he’s been hurting the last few days. I might have to go alone which I didn’t want to do. I was debating the wisdom of hiking with someone I just met “IF” I could find another treasure seeker who wanted to meet up. What do you think would you go hiking with someone you meet via a blog like this if someone at home had their ID info and tag number? I don’t think I’d hesitate to go with someone like Dal or Stephanie because it seems like they would have a hard time hiding if they did someone in over the treasure.

    • Hey Patricia…I know someone that’s some what close to that area and will be for a bit if you want to email me your email…I can hook you guys up to maybe meet. It’s her and her husband a friend of theirs.

    • oops..didn’t mean to send that like that. My email is tyblossom at aol dot com if you want to send me your email and I can forward it on to her.

  26. I am new in the last week to following this treasure hunt, but have enjoyed hours of just reading the blog posts. Not sure I will get in on the search or not. As far as the question about how FF knows the treasure has been found or not, here is my thought: With today’s technology and FF’s wealth, he could easily have put some kind of homing or tracking device with the treasure. Not sure if FF is that kind of guy or not, but just a thought.

  27. NM Theory: Read the 1st and 3rd line then the 2nd and 4th line of each Stanza for a clearer picture.
    It is located under a trail blaze marker on Toby Creek Trail in Cimarron Canyon State Park! Now I just have to save for the trip, get the time off and find it!
    Eagle Nest Lake Dam (Begin it where warm waters halt) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFZP-6x-a44 Largest industry of cutting and selling ice back in the day.
    Santa Fe, NM to Eagle Nest Dam (Not far, but too far to walk.)
    Cimarron River into Cimarron Canyon State Park (Take it in the Canyon down)
    Park Rangers wear brown and the Ranger Station is their home. (Put in below the home of Brown.) **What a safe place to be! http://www.emnrd.state.nm.us/SPD/documents/CCPARKMAPv2.pdf**
    Forrest walking the trail (From there it’s no place for the meek,)
    Look at the trail that follows Toby Creek (There’ll be no paddle up your creek,)
    You are getting closer as you follow the trail! (The end is ever drawing nigh;)
    Big rocks and boulders where water is deeper than average (Just heavy loads and water high.)
    When you find the blaze near a place described above (If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,)
    Don’t stay there long and take time to look around (But tarry scant with marvel gaze,)
    (Look quickly down, your quest to cease,) (Just take the chest and go in peace.)
    (So hear me all and listen good,) (If you are brave and in the wood)
    (Your effort will be worth the cold.) Catching a cold? (I give you title to the gold.)

    • Randy Gregg
      That makes no sense to me now since I did that, Lost Creek and Maverick falls 21/2 years ago. I gave up that dam theory when we found out that warm waters halt was the Rocky Mountains.
      Toby creek is a popular trail but we could have missed it, so go look again but I wouldn’t.
      Plus you could easily walk from the dam to Colby creek in hour or two.
      Oh and I think nobody removed all the trail markers when we where there.
      The dam theory might be important to let you know what canyon to take down though maybe.
      So I am not telling you not to go there but just letting you know that this has been done but certainly could have been missed when someboby was there so, Nobody knows where it is yet!

      • Thanks for the response Tim! I would love to visit there regardless of a treasure or not. This was my first “hunch”. After more and more brainstorming I came up with another that I think makes more sense to me. This one has to do with a place mentioned in FF’s blog. I posted it in the Wyoming and Montana search if you would like to read it. Keep on looking Tim, I wish I could be out there doing the same thing! 🙂

        • Just read by someone that a particular theory was abandoned “when we found out that warm waters halt was the Rocky Mountains.” WHAT? I don’t get that one.

          • Stance Brooks
            Did you just wake up (lol) look at last Friday I think and under me Tim for the explanations why clue one is solved or 99 percent solved so can we on to two
            I have not heard back on what canyon to take down
            My interporetation is any canyon as long as you go all the way down it,
            Could be one in particular but take any down from the East side of the Docky Mountains
            So what about that?
            This clue is a directional one and go down all the way down the canyon/

          • I don’t buy the theory that the first clue (where warm waters halt — being the Rocky Mountains) has been solved at all. My theory is that warm waters halt at the SURFACE — springs spring up and stop — that’s it – so I think that the Rocky Mountain solution is incorrect.

          • Stance Brooks
            To each his own so go for it but you might want to reconsider it. just trying to help everyone here to move along.and I think most agreed that clue one is the Rocky Mountains even Dal.
            If you can prove something better bring it on so we can see where you are coming from or maybe not going.
            What is wrong with the solution that the Rocky mountains are where warm water halts?
            I will treat you respectfully if you do the same.

      • Hi, Tim. Did you search near the dam at Eagle Nest Lake? I understand that whole area has been fine-tooth combed. Is that correct? Did you search along any canyons?

  28. Officially struck out three times in NM.My site had a lot going for it.And maybe I just missed the loot.On to another more promising area further north.Original hunches more often prove themselves than not.Yellowstone is calling me now.

    • The spot I will search on Tuesday (4/9) fullfills every clue, save one– the blaze. But I believe the blaze can only be exactly known by being physically present. It will be near “water high” in “the home of Brown,” (a location I’ve found) and completely obvious. If not, I will start again! 😉 Wish me luck!

  29. Has anyone come across a two creeks in NM called Forest Creek and Cabin Creek???

    • Nary a one. I think I know why you ask (email exchange w/FF), because that’s why I did. There’s a bunch in Wyoming, though. I was told by the fine folks who frequent this blog that it is HIGHLY unlikely that FF would have let that one slip if it had merit, so not to give it too much credence. Ha! Get it? Credence Clearwater. Oh, I crack me up.

  30. Has the poem directed anyone to Middle Lake near Agua Fria. Sure looks good from this vantage point!

  31. Hello all,
    This is my first time commenting on this forum, I’m commenting on this one because I believe (for the moment) that the treasure is hidden in New Mexico. My question is this, Has anyone noticed the two extra words on the photo on pages 18 &19? In the captions written below the photo are the words “Me”, “Pat”, and “Skippy” which I believe refer to Forrest and his siblings, but also written there are the names “EDARD” and “KACIR”. One other child is circled in the photo other than Forrest and his siblings. But are the two other words possibly anagrams for something? Has anyone else perused this line of search.

    • Yes. Someone else noticed that on here and brought it to my attention…Goofy or Germanguy maybe. Anyway I asked Forrest about it and he said that he always called that kid Edard because Edward was too hard to say and Kacir is that fellow’s real last name. Both were…and still are good friends with Forrest. Kacir became a judge.

  32. Thank you John Paul. Our trip to Pagosa Springs was wonderful. I hiked up to Treasure Falls twice. Once alone and once with my 5 year old. I love waterfalls and I could have spent long hours sitting in the mist. As I sat there it occurred to me that Treasure Mountain might be a place to search if I could make the clues fit, but I guess that belongs on the CO thread. And it’s only because I love the irony and not because I noticed anything that pointed me in that direction.

    I should go back to New Mexico. I keep thinking I posted this somewhere but darned if I can find it and my computer has been in and out. My son and I hiked down to the hot springs that I longed to see. Honestly I just wanted to hike to the bottom of the canyon and there were 3 hike that sounded good, but for some reason this one sounded like the easiest to do with a young child. My husband was ill and decided not to go. The hike down was stunning and beautiful, but much rockier than I expected from the description of the trail. I hoped to see some of the wildlife that the area was famous for but Daniel’s idea of quiet was a dull roar and he chattered all the way down and all the way up. Sending out a warning to anyone or anything that was within our sight. We did some birds soaring high above near the canyon rim, but they were too far away for me to identify. We clambered over large rocks that littered the path and I gave thanks that we had made it shortly before we made our way down the last 30 feet or so to the springs. I did it too soon as I stepped over the rocks my foot hit a loose muddy spot and my ankle twisted badly. I sat down with tears in my eyes and visions of a rescue team dancing behind the sparks I was seeing. IN those seconds I was almost sure that I was going to have the 1st broken bone in my life here at the bottom of a canyon. As the pain eased and my sight returned to the here and now, I said another prayer hoping that when I gathered myself enough to put my weight on it that I would discover that it was just a sprain. I waited a few minutes while Daniel chattered to other guests who were making use of the shallow hot water. I stood up in my hiking boots and gingerly shifted my weight. Bad, but not broken. I’d be damned if anyone was coming down the canyon to carry me out if I could hold my weight on it. I hobbled the last little distance to a large stone and sat down. The hot springs looked so good and Daniel was clamoring to go in. I wondered what damage putting heat on too soon might do, but I’d walked down and I wasn’t missing the inviting looking springs. I decided to get Daniel into his suit first. Only after searching through my heavy pack twice I couldn’t find it. I’d had a pack for me and a lighter one for my husband but when he decided not to come along I had to quickly consolidate the 2. Somehow I had brought his suit and not my son’s. I told him that he go au natural, but he was not thrilled about that idea. So we decided to try out daddy’s suit and see if it would stay up on the narrow hips of 5 year old. I was surprised when the string tightened up enough that it did. Daniel was delighted that the pockets turned inside out in the water and made little floaties for him.

    Now it was my turn. When I removed my boot the pain was fierce and I already dreaded putting it back on. But the warm water felt like heaven engulfing and soothing it. We lulled there for a while watching the river and a couple fishing as the others who had been there left us in small groups. I longed to stay and watch the stars diamond the sky. To hike up in the comfort of the dark. But even in the warm water my ankle was protesting and I did not want to be the last 2 people on a narrow trail if it turned out that I wasn’t as strong as I thought I was. So we dressed as I begged the fisherman to not turn around for a few seconds. At my age and with the weight I’d put on it was for his benefit as much as it was my modesty. He obliged and I let him know it was safe before I tackled my boots. I was wishing for my vibram 5 finger shoes and the flexibility they gave me but as I sit here now I know that without the stiff sides to support my tender ankle I would likely never have been able to walk out. I looked at the eager face of my tiny son and I knew that I could do it for him. I was Wonder Woman, hear me roar. I sheathed my foot and tied it tight, then we started long stroll back up. We stopped often but more for his sake than mine. I was afraid that if I didn’t keep moving I’d decide that the pain was too bad. We stopped for drinks and share an apple. I don’t believe that I will ever eat an apple that tastes as good as that one did; sitting on a rock, neither up nor down the gorge watching the river below and the rim above. Laughing and encouraging each other that yes we can make it back to the top, my beloved child and me. Along the way we had to explore nooks and crannies for treasure and shelter “in case a storm comes, mama” and the walk took us too long and too short a time. The fisher couple passed us going up and another group passed us going down, and we stopped for another snack and more of the fluid of life we’d been sipping along the way. But most of all we stopped for the view and the sheer joy of spending time in such a wild place, together. I thought we still had a ways to go when suddenly we crested the ridge and our journey was finished. My son shouted out “We made it, it’s a miracle.” I was thinking that we had been in sync in our worry that my ankle might not hold or that I was just too old for such hikes in heights I wasn’t used to. Only a heartbeat later he added “We beat the storm.” Once again I scanned the clear blue skies and then I simply agreed that yes it was a miracle.

    When we returned to our room and my husband helped me ease my boot off for the 2nd time I realized how true that statement was. My ankle was swollen so much that I am still amazed that I managed that rocky walk up hill. 2 weeks later it’s still tender and swollen. Perhaps a testament to the fact that I didn’t let it rest enough with the other hikes I made on my trip as it is to the fact that it was that badly sprained. There are many other stories that I will add to Daniel’s journal, but this was our biggest adventure. Our first really challenging hike together. I pray that there will be many others along the way that are even more exciting, but this one will always hold a special place in my heart.

    • What a great adventure you had with your son Patricia and so well written too! I hope you are keeping a journal of all these experiences so your son can relive them when he’s older.

      Good Luck in the hunt and I hope your ankle heals quickly.

      • Thank you CJ. Yes I keep a journal that I started when he was born. It’s called “Discovering Daniel” Before this was half written I’d moved it there. I have it backed up online and on DVD’s. I am thinking of starting a blog and back dating them so I have a 3rd place they are kept. I figure that even if only the 2 of us ever read it, it would have served it’s purpose.

        Unless I come into some money or find a partner to go and search my places it will likely be a year or more before I can get back to anywhere the treasure might be. My ankle is actually feeling better today. I’ve stayed mostly off it since we got home and the last 2 days of our drive I babied it. So I’m hopeful that I can resume jogging sometime next week. Lucky me just in time for the summer heat to start roaring in. I do believe that NM is a good bet and that to spite so many people searching there that it has not been over searched. Too many nooks and crannies even along the short trail I walked. Get off the trail 100 or “500” feet and along 3/4 of a mile there could be a thousand places to tuck a box and 1/2 you would never see unless you stood at the right angle. So I’m assuming that once you find the blaze you have to not look down from where you spotted it, but from the blaze. The question is what does “look quickly down” imply? Look down at your feet? Look quickly down further into the canyon? Could you be standing on the edge of a trail and have to look quickly down because of vertigo looking over? I walked so many winding paths in the mountains that I realized that maybe when you look down you will be on the upper part of a trail looking down upon something that is along a lower part of the path, but that will likely go unnoticed from below. Given that it’s in the mountains and at that elevation I would guess that there is a good chance that looking down does not mean just at your feet, but down further into the canyon. However following the clues it seems like I am already at the bottom of the canyon, so… Until you find the blaze there is no way to know. Oh how I long to know the answer to the mystery even if I don’t win the prize.

    • Patricia,

      Thanks for the awesome story. You’re a brave woman. I wish my mother had been that adventurous. Your son is a lucky boy. I’m sure many great adventures lay ahead for both of you.
      Maybe the clue should have been, “So hear me now and take a cane (walking stick), or your effort may bring you pain”.

      Your’e awesome! Hope it heals soon.

      jd

      • LOL JD. Sad thing was I had my walking sticks in the van and I was so excited to get going I forgot them. Don’t think I wasn’t thinking how careless that was. And brave I am not. You should have seen me on the trail. “Hold my hand, there is a drop off.” “Walk on the inside.” (of this narrow path) “Watch out for snakes in that hole.” Holding my breath every time we walked by even a 10 foot drop and thinking “Maybe I should turn around.” every time we walked past one the was much, much, much further. On the way down a teen (14ish?) passed us, going up and Daniel was so worried that he was all alone and might be lost. About a minute later we spied a younger boy who looked to be between 9 and 11, following along behind and I assured Daniel that “see he’s not alone.” By then I could see the parents trailing along a hundred feet or more behind, and I couldn’t help thinking how impossible it seemed to me, to be able to trust that my son would be OK that far ahead of me and the steep and rocky path. I laughed a bit under my breath at the thought that; I’d likely be trying to get my 18 year old to hold my hand on hikes like this. Maybe one of the hazards of having a long waited for only child. Like I always tell my family when they tell me I need to let go a little more “That’s easy for you to say, you have a spare.” I love the outdoors and I long to share them with my son, so I push through my fear so many times. But my eyes are constantly scanning for dangers, that lurk in the wild places I adore. I often question if I’m brave enough to… I never have been. I have a book of infertility poetry, I’ve longed to publish for years and I’ve never been brave enough to actually do it. (I actually could put very different ones together 2 at this point.) Well I need an editor too and I haven’t been able to afford one without giving up things like this trip which I believe are more important than a “vanity” book. I love that you called me brave, but I don’t usually feel very brave. I feel like I’m the stumbling over my fears trying to keep living the life I desire. Who knows maybe it is more brave to do things despite your fears than it is because you have none? Which leads me to a question I’ve often pondered: Who is braver a man who has climbed Mt. Everest because he got a thrill out of every challenge or a man like “Monk” who leaves his “safe” house every day when his entire being tells him to hide? I loved N. NM and S. CO and am already scheming of ways to get back, treasure or not. I long to take my husband and son further from home to see the wonders of this great country Yellowstone and the gysers. Sequoia National Park, Yosemite, the Grand Canyon… the list goes on. If I was truly brave I would sell this house that sucks the soul from me and I’d buy an old (but sound) RV and travel this great country for a year or 2 enjoying its wonders. Introducing my husband and son to some of the places I visited all to briefly in my youth and discovering new ones with them. I’d fly free like an eagle and run in the tracks of a bear or a cougar. I’d laugh at fear for a while and bathe in my braveness. I’d write odes to the places we roamed and the people we met. It’s a wonderful dream, but not only am I not brave enough, my husband would never dream of such things. Even if he did how would we manage his medical care and pain when he can’t go more than a month between seeing his pain management doctor to get the meds he needs to keep it tramped down. And as we learned when we were delayed in FL when visiting my family and taking care of my medical needs last fall, there are places it’s impossible to even get the meds he needs, even if we can find a doctor willing to prescribe them. So I’d settle for moving to NM or CO if I could drag my husband along. To breathe the air that lifts instead of oppressing me. I could also spend so much time (with my little man) wandering the wilds “searching” for Forrest Fenn’s treasure while my once vibrant husband rests his life away. I’d better sign off before I start waxing poetic about how I want him to “rage, rage against…”

  33. I will be going to New Mexico for the week after Memorial Day. I also have the Friday before off. So, May 24th returning on June 2. I have decided to drive since it will probably cost the same either by plane or train. I can adjust accordingly if any one would like to join me or caravan. I have a truck and can take 3 others comfortably. I am near Detroit and don’t mind going too far out of the way. I can drop people off to their search spots and pick them up later that day. We do not have to search together. I am looking between Eagle’s Nest and Cimarron. Anyone interested, let me know. ~Dean

    • I was thinking of going with a girlfriend around that time and our teenage sons. Since you don’t have room for all 4 of us, how about you take the two teenagers and my girlfriend and I will fly? lol I’m totally just being funny. What a sweet offer to make to someone!!

    • Hi Dean,

      I’ll be in the NM area around that time (May 23-24). Not sure of where my exact whereabouts will be on any given day after that, but I’ll be in downtown Santa Fe relaxing the first couple of days to adjust to the altitude and enjoy the town (I love it there!). Once I head out to the wilderness, I’ll probably have no cell coverage, etc. except sporadically.

      I’ll be tramping it (no wheels) for at least a week or so, so I might take you up on your offer of a lift in exchange for some gas money if our schedules meet up at any point.

      Shot me your info at: peacemakerol at hotmail dot com

      Thanks and I look forward to hearing from ya!

        • Thanks, SC. I learned the hard way on my last trip. I live on the east coast at a whopping 47 feet above sea level, so it’s quite a change. I also made the mistakes of drinking a few too many beers on the train trip out and drank coffee once I got there. Bad enough that I emphysema, but made some bone head mistakes from a lack of knowledge

          I’ll have plenty of H2O, cans of oxygen, bear spray, first aid kit, etc. since I’ll be camping out for a minimum of 5 days straight and isolated. I just hope I don’t forget anything simple like TP. LOL

          • Also don’t forget a canteen, you can get dehydrated real fast in NM. I live in Santa Fe so I know. A snake bite kit might be a good idea too…

          • No, but seen quite a few rattlers especially in cooler rocky areas and keep your sleeping bag rolled up during the day if camping somewhere. Any food including toothpaste, gum etc. should also be hung from a tall tree while at night.. Bears and cougars are around in most mountanous areas. LOL Don’t mean to alarm you all but this is just a matter of safe camping around here.
            You guys can call me if you’d like while in SF, might have time to join you if interested for a day trip or give you a broader understanding of NM etc. to help out. Peter

          • Thanks Peter, that’s sweet. I don’t have any plans on going this summer yet…but that’s such a nice offer. I’ve just sort of wondered what snakes were like and where they hang out. I mean is it mostly in the desert or in the forest or anywhere. I’ve already met a bear…hopefully don’t see a mountain lion.

          • Oh your very welcome, just like to pass on some good tips to good folks on the chase..
            During the day rattlers usually seek out a cool place in the desert and upper regions. You don’t need to be a nervous Nellie though if you’re just mindfull of the area you visit. If one does encounter a rattler don’t turn your back to it, just back up slow and away. Usually they’ll rattle or coil upon approaching. Best advice to you and everyone else is to never hike or camp alone which is just common sense. Best of Luck to all.

          • How long do you have after your bitten by a rattler before you might die? Just figure I’d cut to the chase…lol good pun.

          • A snake bite kit and a buddy will get you to an old age.. LOL, but still call 911 for an anti venom treatment.

      • Alex, Never heard back from you about meeting up. Let me know if you are still interested in a ride from/to somewhere. -Dean

    • @ Peter
      Send me a note and if I can get cell phone reception, we can meet up one day or night for talk or search. Deanm_217 at Y A H O O dot com.

  34. Hey Dal and folks,

    I’m really curious, and perhaps this has been answered already, but when Forrest said North of Santa Fe, did he mean north of the City Limits of Santa Fe or North of the Santa Fe National Forest? This would seem to make a big difference, right?

    Also, how strict to that do you think he is being with these borders?

    • @Hotlips
      He has said Santa Fe New Mexico so that would seem to mean the city, especially when he also has said more than “8.25 miles north of Santa Fe”

  35. hotlipsporter,,,”somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”.

  36. I take the ‘north of SF’ to mean anything that lies north of Santa Fe’s latitude, regardless of how far east or west it is (within the constraints of FF’s interpretation of the Rocky Mountains)

  37. I am looking for someone to come with me and look in New Mexico for treasure. Please if interested post comments. Thank you.

  38. Tomorrow morning at 0650, I leave Florida to go on my quest. I have developed a solid solve and can’t wait to be in NM to actually play it out. My home base for the most part is in Santa Fe.

    • Good luck Zelda-
      If you like garage sales and yard sales you should visit the Santa Fe Flea Market next to the old race track…
      Hours of “shopping” fun..

      • Dal,
        As I sit here alone this morning, putting my hair in braids, and dressed in my back country clothes with my gear around me, I wanted to take a few moments to thank you for your supportive reply. However, shopping is not the goal I had in mind when I left the coast of Florida to fly to NM. I do like to shop as much as the next girl, but prefer fishing for shark. I am off on my adventure.

          • Yes, thank you Dal. I actually left you a comment earlier, this evening when I saw alert . It is very dry, also, it’s not true when people say ” yes it’s hot but it’s a dry hot” as if that makes a difference. I have to force myself to stay hydrated. I AM seeing what I have come to see. Experiencing, what I knew I was yearning to experience. I am good.

          • Zelda-
            I know what you mean. People are always using that “dry” heat adage on me. But I agree with you. If it’s 100deg my body is uncomfortable whether its a dry heat or a moist heat. Drink plenty of water. Move slow at those high altitudes and enjoy the scenery. Go see Forrest’s old gallery..it’s now the Nedra Mettuchi Gallery at 1075 Paseo de Peralta. If you are in the neighborhood go have a frito pie at the Tesuque Grill in Tesuque Village just north of Santa Fe…one of Forrest’s fav hangouts.

  39. I believe it has been found.

    SPOILER ALERT!!!!

    About 2/3rds of a mile downstream from El Vado Ranch, NM. A small side canyon with a seasonal stream ends at a circular cliff that forms an almost chapel like enclosure. Below, there are large boulders. Atop one was a small cairn of rocks. Below, in a hollow space sheltered by the boulder and covered up by smaller flat rocks, was a flattened patch of earth where something had obviously sat and been pulled out.

    Here are the clues:

    Begin it where warm waters halt – this refers to the border of warm & cold fishing at El Vado dam.

    And take it in the canyon down – from the dam you look down into the gorge along the el Vado river.

    Not far, but too far to walk. – the El Vado ranch is just half a mile as the crow flies, but you have to drive all the way around to the north on state hiway 112 in order to actually reach it.

    Put in below the home of Brown. – this is the office of the El Vado ranch, where the champion Brown Trout is displayed mounted on the wall.

    From there it’s no place for the meek – to cross the river you have to walk across the swinging cable bridge that spans the river. It’s scary.

    There’ll be no paddle up your creek – because it’s seasonal, and dry in the summer and fall. You can walk up it. No paddle needed.

    Just heavy loads and water high – just upstream from the creek mouth is a high-water measuring station. When water is released from the dam it measures the depth of the river. Right next to it there is a cable strung across the river from which a winch-pulled basket hangs, used to carry gear across the river.

    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze – a small cairn of rocks on the big boulder.

    Look quickly down, your quest to cease – the cavity below the boulder, right at your feet.

    I was bummed to find it empty. Someone got there first.

    I’ll send photos to anyone who cares to see them, or I’ll just shut my trap and let the fun continue. I have to admit, Mr. Fenn’s stated goal of getting people out into the “treasures” of the natural world worked for me. It had been years since I’d gone hiking or camping. I’d forgotten how much I enjoyed it. I think I’ll continue hunting the treasures out there.

    • Grecodan-
      I think it’s interesting how some people assume the treasure has been found just because it’s not at their spot.
      Dozens of people have looked near that spot…maybe a hundred…maybe more. It’s a very common first solution. Searchers have been looking there for over two years. I looked there in May of 2011. Just because it was not there I did not assume it was missing. I knew I simply had the wrong spot. So get out your map and look for another spot. If you think the solution to the poem is that easy you may not be up to the task of finding it.

      • Hmm. Okay. Sorry if sounded pretentious. You can delete my post if you’d like.

        May I ask a question tho? Why did you assume that was my first spot? And why did you assume that YOU didn’t get it right when you searched that spot in May of 2011, or that someone else didn’t get it right before you? Fenn himself has said one shouldn’t over think his poem. Why shouldn’t a simple solution be the correct one? Maybe Fenn isn’t as clever as everyone wants him to be.

        I get the impression Fenn has succeeded in creating the mythic treasure hunt he wanted. I suspect it wouldn’t matter now if someone came forward with the box and all its contents, the myth would have to go on. “Oh, but that’s not the REAL box.”

        And that’s fine, I suppose. As I said above, I think the treasures of the natural world are worth discovering, regardless.

        Have a nice journey.

        • grecodan-
          I didn’t assume that was your first spot. I said “it’s a very common first solution.”
          I assumed I didn’t get it right because the odds of me landing on the exact spot that Forrest hid it are phenomenally small. The Rockies are hundreds of thousands of square miles of land.
          This isn’t a six-pack of beer that Budweiser hid. This is a million dollars and this isn’t someone unfamiliar with the mountains that hid it. Forrest is a mountain savvy guy who likes puzzles and who has said that although it won’t be impossible to find it will not be easy. (paraphrasing).
          I agree with you whole-heartedly that the solution could be simple. Just like the answer to many riddles are simple and eloquent once you know them. But very difficult to figure out. I believe there are literally thousands of places in the mountains where the clues appear to line up but only one of them is the same spot Forrest hid the treasure.
          I believe that once the chest is found there will be no doubt it’s the real treasure. We have photos and we know many of the items that are inside. They cannot be duplicated. It cannot be mistaken for any other treasure.
          I have had 36 nice journeys and I assume I will have many more.
          I wish the same for you.

    • That was one of our spots and I and my 77 year old Mother and 13 year old son went over that bridge . That did seem the logical place with the home of Brown and all, but too many people and just not rustic enough!!! Also one of our home of Brown’s is the cantana in downtown Taos!!! The famous writer of mystery novels, Brown, lived in the ole Governer’s house that is a Museum now and other’s have been there poking around and getting some information I cound not obtain while we were there. I have a New Home of Brown now and believe it is It!! I do not reveal any clues unless I have gone there and searched and know it is not it. The map to use is a real map and an X is marked on it it is just not used in that context. The land is not private and it is very remote. All of my senses say this is the area and want to go and see for myself. IT would be wild if I could locate it. It all fits together with obvious clues from the book and it is right on the tip of my brain exactly where it is located!! I just need to to look at the book and poem and follow the instructions exactly. Good luck and continue the chase and see you in the funny papers…..MSGIRL

  40. Wow, that’s a heap o’reading. Well, if Forest really said “don’t overthink it”, maybe these thoughts will shake someone’s tree.
    Suppose the quest ceases (and observational deductions start) in Questa, a town north of Taos. Down river a bit is the Red River Fish Hatchery. I think this means, and I may be very wrong, that this water is designated as “warm water” (for fish breeding – not fishing). There’s a path from the end of the hatchery parking lot to a bridge crossing the river just before canyon walls steepen. That trail appears to fade away (or draws nigh) as fast waters propel on over some falls. Its not a long way, but probably not walkable. The water designation probably halts at some point where the Red River approaches the Grande. Pulling back Googles satellite view, the flat top of the near ridge shows a small road named Forest Rd #9. (9th clue?) . Backing upstream (without a paddle) from the Grande merge… there’s one heckova man-made blaze on the opposite canyon wall; a zig-zag trail from the crest down to the water. No clue what Brown means… might need feet to see it. Bring a flashlight. Tarry scant is a time reference — an object on an east facing mount will be in shadow by noon. Now, I’m not sure of any of this of course, I’ve never been in NM, I’m 75 and quite hobbly, but back in my day, one kept a secret “like a wooden Indian” … possibly a brave in the wood? What do you think? Google maps arn’t great for this, but maybe my reasoning will help someone with better footing decipher the poem rather than sifting it’s authors nostalgic musings, though that’s good stuff too. But that’s best heard when said by Forest himself.

      • Well you go girl! And if you find it, I’d take it back to Forest and plunk it down in front of him and ask what to do with it. First as a courtesy, and then to add integrity to your luck. Don’t want no pawn shop melting down history.

        • old shadows your absolutely right you’ve just comfirmed my brave theary thank you I have ane awesome pic of one if you want to see it

          • I’d love to, but this brave is probably some tall, straight rock formation standing in front of some trees. The WISE/blaze thing may be an OWL motif … 2 eye circles, sort of like an infinity symbol. Perhaps it is a natural formation formation.

    • The areas you mention here have been searched quite a lot. I have been to locations all around the confluences of the Red and Rio Grande rivers. It is hard to get a tight fit of the clues in any spot around here. I live in Taos and am a boots on the ground, full time searcher so have some extensive knowledge of all the popular search areas folks most often come up with here in NM.
      I do firmly believe the treasure is in New Mexico and you can
      read my reasons and explanations on my website. IMHO

      http://theforrestfenntreasure.com

      • Phil-
        Just visited your website. Nice! Anyone wanting the lowdown on New Mexico search areas would be wise to have a look at your website…
        FYI- You mention Collected Works as a source for the book but you don’t mention the bookstore in your own hood..
        Moby Dickens in Taos also carries the book. Same price as Collected Works in Santa Fe.

    • when you find a viable location near water & trees, examine the surrouding trees for a lightning strike & if you do, you may of just found your blaze.

  41. Headed to Santa Fe on Monday the 8th from Flagstaff, AZ. Would be great to meet up with some other treasure hunters, outdoor enthusiasts in the area. My GF and I are are in the middle of our summer long bicycle tour, so this is likely our only visit to treasure hunt. Would be great to go out with a seasoned hunter! My theory as to where the treasure is is not to far from Santa Fe, but includes some awesome history, scenery, and warm waters 😉 Give me an email or text if you’re up for meeting. Plan on being in the area till Thursday or so.

    Chaz
    welditall@gmail.com
    Five17-64867four6

  42. i agree with your observations .the reoccuring theme in the memoirs are how one confronts his own mortality. and what kind of legacy is one going to leave behind. forrests father took his own life ,and it was an acceptable and understandable decision. i think forrest ,when he found out about his cancer had considered doing the same. in his travels and explotations ,he had come across the perfect place to do just that,and he was going to take his treasure chest along with him. and as you say ,when he recovered from his cancer ,decided to put the treasure in that same special place,perhaps as some kind of offering to the gods for the gift of life. and by making it public, a sure way to establish his legacy here and now. i also agree that his emotional ties are with the living and taking that into account as well as subtle clues in the book ,the probability that the treasure is hidden very close by to him are extremely high.also i cant imagine the risk of driving cross country with a million dollar treasure in the back seat. i am also suprised that noone has mentioned a kiva as a likely hiding place. it would be my first choice, or something very similar.i am too far away to even think of making a search. i believe it can only be found by being onsite

    • That was well said!
      I’m far away too (wisconsin), but i got an emotional place in mind i would like to look around and see if i can come across the treasure. Im gonna feed the pig for a year and get boots on the ground in NM! I just hope that there arent enough today show clues between then and now to narrow down the general search area to a square inch.

    • I wouldnt advise searching any kivas.Number one they are sacred to natives, number 2 they are watched if they are on public lands. Forrest didnt hide anything in a kiva!

  43. LOL Dal. It’s those kind of misquotes that are gonna misplace the decimal point in “The Forrest Fenn Algorithm.” If anyone starts digging up my azalea bushes looking for treasure because the numbers crunched out that way, I’m coming after you!
    hmmm on a side note, I am inspired by the kiva idea or something similar. Thank you Charles. I never would of thought of that…

  44. Ok I dont know if this is stupid since alot of you posting seem real smart, but has anyone ever mentioned or distinguished between the point in which he is either driving or walking? Does he began his poem as he is driving to this place or does it even matter? If so at what point would he began walking? Just throwing it out there.. One more thing, do you think f would every say the distance from when he starts the poem to the end or would this give too much away?

  45. Home of Brown? Fleda Brown? Search on her Home page for: a) Edna St Vincent Millay (see page 136 in The Thrill), then, b) Georgia O’Keeffe (her book: Fishing with Blood) …. possibly FF knew Fleda, or of her, since he was interested in art & fishing. It’s a pretty a far fetch, but still. an interesting connection. (Home/page, Home/house) She is an awsome poet (and cancer survivor) … I espcially liked “Security” in her recent Wobbly Bicycle post.
    My opinion… Home of Brown more likely refers to the pic on pg 124… a school or hatchery.

  46. Thanks for sharing that. I’m sure I’m not the only one to say or think this, but a joy in the chase is just getting to branch out and explore new places, people, cultures, lifestyles, history and art that I wouldn’t otherwise be exposed to. Even if Fleda Brown had nothing to do with FF, she seems to be an interesting person to read about. Good find!
    On a side note It touched me personally…not that I can first hand say I completely understand and empathize with cancer survivors. I understand having medical problem resolved, but always having the thought of it looming over head and wanting to feel secure too that it won’t come back someday. So It is very encouraging to hear and read about people sharing their experiences when so many don’t utter a peep about it for the sake of being tough.

    • Thans Adam… and “me too” on the expanding and exploring. I learned another home for brown is a redd… the smooth clean stones where trout lay their eggs. I really think the first article in The Thrill … about the booksstore… is very, well, readable. Happy Trails to you.

  47. Hi Lisa to answer your question I don’t think he’s driving or walking but in a canoe or wants us to use canoe and distance from start to finish is probly around 20 miles.

  48. -Lisa, J.R, Old Shadows, I hope indecision is the key…I got plenty of it being a double Libra. There are too many great ideas out there that I can’t help but feel pointed in all directions. Darn obsessive clue disorder! I follow Old Shadows reasoning with the Red River Fish Hatchery theory. As soon as I get some time off I will look into it. Might as well seeing how its on my way to where I was going. And If I find anything near there I will bring some coins back to you O.S. as thanks.
    I like the canoe idea too. In the interviews Forrest said contentment is the key and there is nothing more relaxing then being in a canoe. It would explain the “Put in” in the poem. I also remember he said that searchers got the first two clues right and walked right past the other seven. Maybe walking is last thing a person should do.
    I wonder if the Forrest Fenn Rainbow is a metaphor for his journey….like going A to B, Start to Finish…from a negative prognosis to finding good health or something. If so, being as crafty as he is I wouldn’t be surprised if he threw a curve into that too. Too many thoughts. Take care!

    • Yes I agree Adam there are a lot of good ideas forrest mentions bout someone got the first 2 clues right and went right past the other 7 he didn’t mentioned walked. So they got the warm waters and canyon down which means they past right by home of brown so HOB isn’t something obvious.

  49. J.R, I think your definetly on to something here. That would explain the ‘too far to walk’ clue. To add to that, the people that f mentions got the first two clues right I believe were searchering before his story exploded. His post in ‘Stephan Returns to the Blaze’ was written sometime in September 2010. At that time the book wasn’t as widely available but only to those here in New Mexico or Santa Fe, I think. That might give those of us searching here in New Mexico an extra push!

    Best, Lisa 🙂

  50. Yes that was in sep 2012 but he also says several months Pryor but ya that is true Lisa the book is only sold here in Santa Fe besides eBay or amazon and was out since 2010 but recently has made it national and selling like crazy.

    • JR-
      We have said that CW is the only place it can be purchased. But it’s now also available at Moby Dickens in Taos, 125 Bent Street.
      Their number is 575-758-3050 and the price is the same.

  51. I don’t believe he took the treasure the route he is describing in the poem. I believe he drove to a certain spot off the hiway, hiked to the spot – not more than 100-200 feet away- and placed the treasure where he wanted it hid. The poem is just a way to get out too many clues for people to explore alot of wilderness. Im starting toward the middle end of the poem and going from there. The more clues gives more possibilities of places, does not really narrow down much.

    • D,
      I could not agree with you more. I live in Taos and am a full time searcher. I have a detailed Northern New Mexico map on my wall with push pins marking all the spots that could remotely be where warm waters halt, include a canyon, and are drivable to. There are a lot of push pins on that map.

      http://theforrestfenntreasure.com

  52. Hey D I agree with u I don’t believe he took it step by step the day he hid it but he knew exactly where to hide it he knows all these areas like his back yard he’s been there hundreds of times so he knew what to write on poem step by step to get to it. And if u know where to start it WILL lead u to it

  53. It’s been raining a lot here in NM you think mr forrest is worried a little bout the floods moving his trove if IF it is in NM and close to a river.

  54. I got the strangest luck being a soldier. Our unit from WI goes down to Florida to acclimatize to the heat before mobilization to Iraq, and of all things there was a record low and freezing rains. Another time we went to Camp Shelby Mississippi and sure enough a hurricane. Don’t even get me started on Fort McCoy that place is the Bermuda triangle. We go out to NTC out in California for desert training…record rains. I saw a flood in the middle of the desert of all things! It was so bizarre! I’m not saying FF is Einstein and am not going to swap out his name with Chuck Norris when it comes making to jokes, but I’m sure there was thought into this. Where the waters course now, they have coursed there before and etched themselves into the lands topography. Couple with the statement in Dal’s video interviews, “I always wanted to know where the edge was.” Taking a wild guess here I don’t think he’s worried.

    • Yes, quite a few folks have searched that area. I am a full time searcher living in Taos. What makes you think that might fit the clues. Abiquiu Lake is not a designated warm-water fishery. My thinking is that this clue is associated with this
      NM fishing waters designation.
      Phil
      http://theforrestfenntreasure.com

      • Ya your right its not warm water fishery same with heron and vado lakes aswell there is lots of Browns in those areas. Could one of those be Home of Brown

  55. Mr Fenn was on the news tonight , some guy was arrested for trespassing in his land the guy said he just wanted an autograph ,some people are taking this too far were supposed to have fun with this the treasure is not in Mr fenns house no need to go there.

  56. FF sez from the git-go, Literature is Important. So, thinkin’ on Miss Ford teaching Spanish … ford, a place to cross… cruces. My inner-student chewed on an article about Cruces Basin Wilderness, found on greatoutdoors.com, that has a little intriguing word-Kismet. Your student might too. The USDA Forest Service puts CBW “within the Tusas Mts, a southern extension of the Rocky Mts.” right below CO. Trails here may need blazing, so not for the amateur.

    • Still nothing from Forrest on the Today Show issue…
      I guess NBC has fallen into a “We’ll do it when we feel like it” ,position.

      • Dal, somewhere I read that Forrest said the treasure was safely hidden from any natural disaster, but not from fire. Did he say that?

        • LH-
          I don’t think it was exactly like that.
          I believe a closer rendition was that he was asked if being outdoors could hurt the chest and it’s contents to which he replied something to the effect that the chest was made of bronze and would generally be unaffected by the environment. But then added something like: Of course there could always be a disaster like fire, earthquake, flood, etc that might affect it.

          These are not quotes…

    • Hey Toby…
      I want to see your flowers but I have to have a Google account to use that link…I’m bummed..
      Googleless in Washington..
      If you want to click on my photo on the right up near the top…you can send me the pic and I’ll post it where everyone on this blog can see it..
      Just offering..

  57. For the people searching in NM I’ve said this before and no one really commented but we’ve been having record rain fall all around the state huge rocks are falling from toas mountains rivers over flowing thrashing roads farms especially north of Santa Fe. So what if the treasure is in NM not even the mountains are safe from this bad rain so if it is in NM then why is forrest not concerned he said that its open to fires and floods since he’s not too concerned maybe its actually not in NM who knows but be careful out there with these floods. Safe hunting

      • I don’t think he’s implying that its not the case for other states. But as a searcher who’s main spot is in New Mexico I would think he is just concerned with that state and maybe he is trying to spark up conversation.. Might forrest see his comment and respond..?

    • J. R. I spent the weekend before last in the Chama area, and last weekend in the Eagle Nest area. I experienced none of what you’re concerned about. Besides, that it even concerns Fenn is a bit of a stretch.

  58. Hi Deepblue, I spilled my reasoning for multi-state travel yesterday on the MT WY thread. I sorta doubt there’s more book learning for me, just poem hoofing and seat-of-your-pants sliding until graduation day. Good Luck all, but hurry, the sophmores are gaining ground.

  59. OldShadows, there is always room for more learning! 🙂 You bring interesting ideas to the chase. Thank you.

    • Thanks, Deb, Learning never ends, so I’m re-reading. FF doesn’t give false clues, but he is deadly at misdirection. Just look at that soda list. Blatz is a beer. Who knew those Cheeseheads had an old Romanesque style office building that’s now an historic landmark! Makes you slip right past that other list, the one with the Caliphs scimitar in Olga’s bathtub. Clear now as Fenn’s skylight. And that Kidd is a big nobody, Gardiner is a plank walk on the lee side… but at least I am awake now. Besides, I just love finding the Lit. embers, to me they’re like finding arrowheads. Ex: Edna’s poem (pg 136) is called Fig 2. Her Fig 1. poem sez what Father may be doing on page 147.
      Anyhow, in my homework I forgot to report that the NM State amphibian is the Spadefoot Toad. Just look at it! Likely a NM variant of the Calaveras genus, but everyone on this NM thread probably knew that.

      • Misdirection or deeply layered?
        I’ll be in the books all winter, too. Would love to pick your brain when this is all over.

        • Ow, ow, ow…. ow… ow, …. let me tell you now.

          Are you good at ciphers and crossword puzzles? I hate ‘em, but I think one is implied in FIRST GRADE. I stare at all those green evilos, pardon, olives, lined up on the lawn under all those window panes … and wonder. For awhile, I thought “window” was a portal, or maybe a map’s frame, but now I think of it some kind of grid. And Ora May is just so crosswordy, don’t you agree?

          Then that collection list in GOLD AND MORE tripped me. It made sense. Except Egyptian Jewelry… perhaps an amulet, a cartouche of a name found in an array of words or letters. I left my loupe somewhere on a windowsill and need help on that one. The rest,is pretty clear. Well, the weather vanes are a little iffy too.

          Early on I thought the parking sign in FIRST GRADE might be the wood sign marking the 45th parallel between Park County MT and Park County WY. You pass it on your way from Gardiner to Mammoth. And I deduced a really clever and solid site in Yellowstone that I hated to abandon. But FLYWATER reset the course for me.

          There are probably cipher apps out there, and next spring someone may locate that box. And I could be entirely wrong about everything.

          • Old shadows, I searched that 45th parallel sign in May of this year. Major soil erosion going on there at the river. The road will probably have to be relocated, or a bridge built. I also searched higher up on the canyon walls above the road, but dismissed that area as well due to rock slides. I’m not telling you not to search there, this is what I observed. I posted this same thing over on mikes blog couple weeks ago.

    • Tyounis I like ur thinking I also am with u in thinking its in NM there’s lines in the poem that point to NM if you know a lot bout nm

      • J. R. I think you have to work with one set of assumptions at a time. 1. He’s acquired his wealth and fame (or infamy) in New Mexico after arriving in 1972, and he’s still here. 2. In the book he writes “I hid it in the mountains north of Santa Fe.” No mention of “Rocky Mountains” until after the book was published. When someone says I’m headed for the mountains north of Santa Fe, they don’t mean Wyoming. 3. “Warm waters,” is a phrase unique to New Mexico.

        Start with NM, until all your assumptions are proven wrong, then move on.

        By the way, I think “it’s above 5000 feet” is a red herring. Now his slip of the tongue “It’s seven…um…” that makes things interesting.

        • Yes exactly mountains north never mentioned Rocky Mountains till after I always thought that was a good point. And when he says in the Rocky Mountains it can also mean in between the Rockies and not in which you got the Sangre de cristos on right side the jemez on left and tusas up more north could be in between those 3

          • I thought a lot about that, after he made the Rocky Mountain comment. The Rockies are a very specific chain, which include the Sagre de Cristos. The Jemze are actually part of what is referred to as the Colorado Plateau.

            So I had to wonder what his definition of the Rocky Mountains was. He’s pretty knowledgeable, so the assumption I made was he knows what he’s saying when he says Rocky Mountains (whether limited to New Mexico or not). That pretty much excludes the Rio Grande, anything West of the Rio Grande and anything East of I-25. When you consider that most of the Eastern Half of the Rocky Mountains in New Mexico is privately owned land, that puts you into Carson and Santa Fe National Forests.

            The giveaway for me was the antique map that’s on page 133. I downloaded and printed a copy of it, and there’s no question where the Rocky Mountains are.

  60. A national radio network is doing a story on Forrest and would like to interview a searcher in Santa Fe when they are down there visiting with Forrest. If anyone from the Santa Fe area would like to be on a radio story with Forrest in the next couple of weeks, please let me know and I will pass your email on to the show’s producer. My email is on the right side of this page right above my picture..

  61. Ok here it goes. Where Warm Waters Halt, that would be called an xxxxxx. Doesn’t Mr. fenn mention apple cider? xxxxx NM has an apple fest every year. Just north of xxxxx you have xxxxx right before that you have xx xxxxx which is WWWH. That’s your starting point. xxx xxxxxxx, xxxx xxxxxxx, etc. ALL warm waters halt at this point. ALL. This is where it gets confuseing. Mr. Fenn has a Passion for history, he is like a kid at a candy store when he talks about any -thing ancient. Some would say fishing is where his heart is. I don’t think so. History is his true love. IF you watch the interviews youll see where im going with this. What history? From that point on north you have northern NM most ancient storys. WE have the Anasazei a tribe of cliff dwellers that we know little about. They used the sun as a calender to tell when the seasons were changing. They had a technology that is beyond our understanding and more accurate than our satellites and electronic gizmos. They did this just by carving a rock a certain way and placing it at the right angle. Imagine what the world would be like if they were still around. They built a laser beem with rocks. No batteries no wires, ROCKS. That is true history. Not Dams or levies milled by modern man. They even built an irrigation system that flows up hill. (Hint WW). Sorry got side tracked. Too far to walk would be a real long walk. Hence- xxxxxx xxxxl-its simple. No trickery no deception only the truth. The whole poem is just simple facts worded so that a young child old enough to read can understand and vision what he is saying. If your heading north presumably were going up right well in order to go down you have to turn left or right. North is the only heading Mr. Fenn gives us and Santa Fe is the only true starting point we get. Works for me. He Even gives us a map, pictures,hints. The map is of NM. Not Montana, Wyoming, or Colorado. The poem is nothing more than a grade school field trip. You can read all you want and learn all there is to learn, But unless your truly out experiencing history firsthand. youll never get it. That’s the true treasure. If your looking for the get rich quick gold fever I want the money deal. You will never find it. Its like looking for the tip of a needle in 1000 hay stacks. Its impossible. That’s why he wrote the poem so that a child could better understand it than adults. As I watched my children while on our searches it dawned on me that greed had taking over me. If you truly sit and study your child while out in the woods and streams they are having the the time of there life. No worries no hurries,no dollar signs flashing. They sit (well not sit not my kids anyways) and study every little thing that crosses there path. They pic stuff up, kick stuff over, fall down scratch and hurt themselves, all the while learning more than any book or any school could teach then. That’s the true treasure he wants people to find. If you find that, then you will be given title to the gold. It called being Golden. The true meaning of riches old and new. My children ask why we stopped looking for the box, and my answer is we already found it. Were just going to leave it where it is so that others can have as much fun looking for it as we did. So if your looking in NM its in a chair about a mile high in the air. If you don’t believe me, well, you will when you get there.

      • Yes, I agree that it he is over-thinking the poem. But, I also feel he is right that the treasure site is in NM. It is NM that Fenn knows best. What is not safe from fires besides a tree? Fenn said the treasure site is not safe from fire as in a forest fire. Under the ground is safe, so it is not buried….even water, rocks, and caves are safe sis. To me, that just leaves a wooden structure or trees.

        • Yes, I agree about NM, in fact I’m sure about that. Remember, f said it was not associated with any structure. As for the tree thing, I believe he said it was surrounded by trees. With his cunning use of words that could means many things. For example, the top of Taos Mountain is as bare as a babies butt for a long way around, but it is surrounded by trees.
          I also think it is closer to Santa Fe than one might imagine. He said north of the city limits, but does that mean north of the north boundary or north of the south boundary. Both are city limits of SF, if you get my drift. Of course I don’t have the chest so I could just be blowing wind when it comes to any idea I have.
          Enjoy the Chase.

    • Sancho, may I offer another thought? What if your thought is half right and there is also a treasure of gold to go along with it? I dont think you over thought anything by the way.

      • this one is for you deb. your right how do you over think a map you all are saying the maps are incorrect. and that the land surveyers were wrong. deb you the only one who agreed with me so one is all i need .ive tried to give a feww people my solution but they were to narrow minded and just blew me off. your the the first to agree with me on anything thank you.an if dal promises to post my blog imediatly ill show everyone my solution to the poem. or should i just postit on facebook

        • Sancho, lots of people wont listen to anyone who thinks differently. Not your problem , is it?
          Dont give up on your solve. It gives you something to think about. Who knows how long this could take.Maybe one of your kids will want to look if it drags on forever? At any rate its a good excuse to get to the mountains, even if you dont actively look for it.

          Some of my most clever ideas come from people telling me something is impossible.

  62. I picked up my copy of FF’s “Too Far to Walk” at Collected works in Santa Fe on Monday. Very similar in format to TTOTC with different FF style home-spun memories. This style may set a new standard for memoir writing. Jefferson is likely rolling over in his grave. There doesn’t seem to be as many non sequitur in this volume as the previous, although the mention of visiting Erwin Rommel’s wife and son during a trip to Germany was a bit off center.

    Dal scores some photo credits, including one of FF and Suzanne Sommers, who composed a very nice forew0rd to the book.

    The photo on the cover of the book, re printed opposite the book’s preface, looks like a selfie of a late model FF. It could be any one of dozens, if not hundreds of streams in the Rockies. Thus, it may be another clue I’m just not bright enough to interpret…like all the other clues in TTOTC.

    The promised map seems to have been an afterthought based on a relationship FF now has with a mapping company. From my New Mexico perspective, it re-highlights the search area I had depicted in one of my previous posts except for the curious addition of the Aztec ruins far to the West of the Rocky Mountains (technically the Colorado Plateau). But, it sticks out there like a sore thumb taunting you to spend/waste some time researching/visiting it.

    I’ll throw some Google at it tonight to see what happens.

    t.

  63. TFTW Update: According to FF in his new book, too far to walk is ten miles (Preface, pg xiii). And, there is an implication that the cover photo is his shadow cast on the Madison River (“That day never came for me, and my disappointment still casts a lonesome shadow across the Madison River.”)

    His youthful fishing trip covered “…few miles from West Yellowstone, Montana, and fished downstream to Baker’s hole.”

    I don’t know which way the Madison runs at that point. He says he fished “downstream” from his put in point, but, on my maps, Baker’s Hole (Campground) is North of his starting point.

    Does the Madison run North from West Yellowstone, MT?

    t.

    • Actually, it’s not my shadow. I believe it’s Forrest’s. Let me explain…
      Forrest sent me a photo and asked if I would shoot one like it while I was out in Yellowstone a couple of months ago. It looked pretty much like the photo you see. So I spent hours in the morning and more hours in the afternoon using the river and my own shadow..
      It took so long because I had to find a place where the sun would cast a shadow on the water and where the bottom was attractive. The shadow was difficult but I had a heck of a lot of fun shooting it and walking miles and miles of the Madison.
      I sent my best attempts to Forrest to look at and he told me that I didn’t need to include the shadow. That his designer would add the shadow later. All he needed was a good pic of the Madison where the bottom was gravelly and clean and where the sunlight highlighted the colors of the gravel and I should include some bank…
      So this was much easier. I spent another half day traipsing around in the area of the Madison where Forrest directed me. I probably took a couple hundred images and sent him 5 of what I felt were the best. They selected one and Susan, his designer, added the shadow..I believe that shadow is from an image of Forrest but I don’t know that for certain.

  64. I attended Mr. Fenn’s book signing at the Inn and Spa at Loretto in Santa Fe this evening. It was an overflow crowd divided into several groups: family, friends of the family, some of Santa Fe’s wealthy elite, and searchers.

    He signed my original TTOTC with all my notes and tabs and torn pages. It was the only of his books I own that had not been autographed. His grandchildren helped him at the desk, writing down the names of the guests and then shouting the names at Mr. Fenn so he could write something appropriate. He, apparently, is hard of hearing.

    I got a moment of his attention, long enough to have a photo taken of us, and I asked him if the mis-spellings on the brass bell (knowlege) and brass jar (dollers) were intentional, and he said they were. That he thought it made them more interesting. He asked if he could take a photo with my good friend, Shelley, a red-haired, green-eyed actress with a beautiful smile. I sense he has an eye for the ladies.

    (My Nikon L610, while having survived the fall into the ravine this last weekend enough, droid-like, to open and extend its lens, will not correctly focus. It took more of a beating than I had first estimated, and I will have purchase another “daily driver.”)

    I suggested to him that his life between the time he and his family arrived in Santa Fe and his hiding the treasure would make an interesting documentary. He didn’t agree, “There’s no story there,” he said. (I made documentaries for a living before recently retiring.)

    Unlike the previous events I’d seen, he did not rise to the stage to speak or take questions. He very diligently sat behind his table autographing books with the help of his grandchildren. It is a fine looking family. His wife, Peggy, was there as were his two daughters and several of the grandchildren. His grandson, Shiloh(?), looks very much like the photos of him (FF) when he was younger.

    The buffet was very nicely laid out with a nice selection of New Mexico themed crudites, appetizers and a chafing dish full of green chili tamales. I went back for a second, they were so good.

    His friend, the guitarist and composer sang his recent composition, “Too Far to Walk.” It was poetic, and funny.

    I spoke with only two other of the several searchers in attendance. A gentleman, and firefighter who had traveled from Nevada, and who kept repeating, “I wish Dal was here,” and a lady who had made the trip from Colorado Springs to attend the event with whom I assumed was her son.

    My drive from Albuquerque was short in comparison.

    Neither of them disclosed much about their search strategies. Not shy, I shared some of mine with them. They did not seem to be impressed.

    I thought it was a good investment in time, and it gave me the opportunity to observe Fenn in surroundings in which he seemed comfortable.

    Having only slightly met him, I am no less impressed.

    t.

    • Nice Toby-

      Thanks for the report. I had heard that there might be as many as 250 folks there…what do you think?

      • No. Not even with walk-throughs. The room couldn’t have tolerated 250. Around 100 would be more like it, maybe 125 if you included those who simply passed through to have their book autographed.

        • Thanks for sharing your experience at the book signing Toby.Sounds like the searchers were out- numbered.For some odd reason I thought that there would have been quite a few.Thanks again.

          • Funny story! Sunday last,a branch caught my glasses and flung them off somewhere.Unfortunately,I was on my riding mower and wouldn’t you know it!? Yep,54 inches of blades minced them into oblivion.The warranty specified that I must bring the parts in to be repaired.Hah!! Just got the new ones yesterday.The newly adjusted specs work nicely.Now I only see one at a time!!!Carry on…

      • Thanks or sharing your experience at the book signing and the picture of you and Forrest. It would have been fun to be there and schmooze with the Santa Fe elite, searchers and family and friends – the food sounds great too! 🙂

    • Toby,
      Yes, that was my son. The room was packed, standing room only. What a diverse bunch of people but we were all there for Forrest.
      Not impressed with your searching strategies? I must have had my poker face on! The whole time you were talking to me I was thinking “holy crap”, for sure we have different methods going on. You are a force to be reckoned with as far as searching goes. I’m surprised you haven’t found the box already!
      Very fun talking with you that night, Toby. We all wished Dal was there.

  65. Wife and I were at book signing, happen to be in N. NM and drove over. What a great time. Spoke to Mr Fenn three times during the evening, once for him to read my list of solutions ( I have the list).
    Since I know he likes things that are interesting, I was pleased that he said the list was “very interesting” and he later repeated that.
    Bought TTOTC and TFTW which he wrote a little something to my wife and I , then signed. Have some pics of Mr Fenn and I, and the whole crowd (100+) Great time was had by all. We are from Maine.

  66. Hi Toby…
    Mark from southern illinois. I read all your post…nice job on covering the event. thanx.

  67. I enjoyed the reports too. Thanks.

    I mentioned in a prior post on the MT thread, that I thought the puzzle took a turn at FLYWATER, and the search site turned from somewhere in wherever to New Mexico. To me, every chapter implies that some kind of cipher or alphabet graph is in play. And as it/they progress through the chapters, they may lead to a significant clue. But since it will take a better mind or tools than mine to crack it, I focus on the overall structure of the stories. However, I sense that a cipher string ends in GOLD NO MORE when the “bottle caps” and “string” are gone. They are no longer useful. Their clue has been exposed. So, how weird then is that comment that mom looks out the window for the postman?? Unless, that final clue now makes postmark data relevant. Most of those postmarks are dismissible Texas. That leaves two West Yellowstones, two Somewheres, a Sagebrush Flats, a Santa Fe, and a Taos Mountain. And in a big reach, suppose that final alpha-clue is one word, perhaps an 8 letter word, like Saturday. Well, that would be Taos Mountain… and Forrest being Forrest, perhaps even its date, 10/10/83, has an interesting historical or literary tidbit for the engaged reader. My head seems to be shaking yes and no at the same time. What do you think?

    Thank you FF, I had forgotten all about that low-watt. I’ll smile when I send my annual donation to GreenPeace and my other doers next January.

    • Old Shadows… 10/10/83 the best thing I can come up with is an upcoming birthday? If that is the case, gifts would need to be in the mail today to get them by Wednesday. You got me Old Shadows.

  68. This puzzle is exhausting, that’s for sure! One thing that I can promise you is this… PureLife is what is coming from it as we speak. For everyone out there you need to know that this poem CAN lead you to GOD. It did for me and I’m not just saying that. Thank you ff wherever you are.

  69. It seems as though the poem wasn’t the only way to figure this out.
    Old shadows I completely understand you….I arrived from another direction.
    So now what will you do?

    • Mark and Old Shadows,

      I’ve searched twice since April 2013. Most recently in September. You must get out in the woods. The poem has been solved, but only by accident. On my last trip while standing in a hotel parking lot and calling home to my wife to discuss the days events was a V-8 moment. You know like the old commercials when they were hit in the head.

      There are clues in the book but the poem has it all in there. But to understand the poem you must get outside. Being 500 feet from it is close. It is a little more than 500 feet.

      The blaze is only obvious if you have read the past blogs, traveled to the site and understand a few hints in the book.

      You will ask why don’t I have the treasure? The blaze came to me in the parking lot as the sun was going down and I had to catch my flight early the next day and had to leave for the flight at 5:30am. My chance was missed but I will be back.

      One more thing. The conditions to retrieve the chest must be just right. A short window of time to view the chest as well. A Patty Loveless bluegrass song about Kentucky says the sun comes up at 10 in the morning and goes down at 3 in the day.

    • Mark, I donno yet. I’m 50% confident in NM, and 30% confident in Taos Mt. It’s all conjecture. I doubt FF would give away more clue than that… if that much. I kinda think those working on the cipher angles might be just as close as those who are actually hoofing the area. Ever since FF’s mom cut her home-made bread into squares & browned it for desert, I’ve thought there might be multiple cipher-squares, and maybe folding or stacking them into a box shape creates vertical or wrap-around cues, even of WWWH and HOB. Upside-down pineapple cake might mean that p’s can double as b’s or d’s. When FF saying that there were female figures on the sides of the treasure box it suggested a close look at its photo, and we saw laddered characters building a fort, block by block. He’s clever that way.

      Southern Illinois? My dad hopped a boxcar out of Lincoln after spending near a year with a pick and lunch-bucket in a coal mine there. He was 14 when he hopped off in Chicago. He found factory work. The unions came in. He got vacations, with pay. Twenty years later, he and I spent them fishing catfish and eel in Kickapoo Creek. Also finding arrowheads. Pretty country. Solid folk. Good Luck to you.

      • nice read. I’d forget about all the cypher stuff though – I think that is in the overthinking it category. As for myself I am 99.9% sold on New Mexico and 95%
        sold on Taos Mountain. I think the warm waters halt meaning is very craftily worded, but means something different than what mainstream searchers are thinking – although warm waters halt is one way of saying the same thing.
        I live in Taos so I get to do a lot of looking around here. The mountain is my main focal point right now. Even though I think I have the warm waters thinghy figured out I have not been able to put the rest of the pieces together yet. Hey, I don’t have the chest so I have to remember that I might no ZERO about all this and really need to keep an open mind.
        I took a reporter from the BBC out to some search spots today and she really was intrigued by the country around here (she is a city girl). She is putting a story together for the radio featuring Forrest and myself.

        • Thanks Phil, Yeh, Cipher may not be the right word, but I think some kind of alphabet braid is in play through some part of the book.
          Strictly, Cipher may mean: Take MESSAGE-X, garble it, transport it, un-garble it, and get MESSAGE-X again. Here we’d be taking a selection from the book, like a quote or a line or something, and pulling a different message out of it. Ex: Take MESSAGE-Y, garble it, ungarble it, and get MESSAGE-Z. I’m not wise enough for that, and sure not learned in the mysteries of matrices and algorithm stuff that some talk about. But I’ll read some more and maybe something will shoot up my nose. I’ll let you know. I’m gonna start with Oreos and bubble gum, and a frosty Blatz.
          Wish I could get there, get a feel for the land. It would probably take some years, so you are at a real advantage. Good Luck.

          • As always OldShadows you give me more to think about and I thank you.

            I also am not a very big cypher person, or numbers person. It makes it hard to read when others are just positive the answers are encoded in abstract formulas that I dont have the first clue about. Oh well onward and upward.

            Thanks for sharing your thoughts, you give me hope.
            deb

          • Old Shadows and Phillip,

            There is no cyphering. As Forrest has indicated it is all in the poem.

            It does help to know the history of the area and to have understood previous blogs. A knowledge of the topography is a huge help.

            By knowing these things the poem becomes very literal.

            Regardless, you must get out into the woods to see the poem for what it is. No armchair sleuth will solve this without first hand knowledge of the area.

            When you understand and see the poem as it was meant to be it hits you like a ton of bricks. You will ask yourself why did it take you so long to see the blaze through the trees?

            I have discussed my third trip out there with my wife. She’s not to happy with it. But I’m on furlough from my gov’t job right now so it is probably the best time as any.

            We’ll see.

            Good luck to all intrepid searchers!

  70. Hi…well idk about Taos mountain or ciphering…but Ive treked the Bull of the woods.
    WWHs is layered kind of. But not. Phillip…seasonally I wish I lived in Taos. The home of Kit Carson. have you been to the second summit of the Gold Hill or the lost lake.

  71. I also believe its in NM 99% but I’m not sure bout Taos mt it’s possible since those are Sangre de cristos blood of Christ you only see the blood in sun rise and sunset. In TFTW there’s a chapter called river bathing is best and forrest mentions Madison river and in that river he mentions a few lines from the poem making it look like the treasure is in Madison river but I think forrest is talking about NM but in other river and hot spot names for example he says Madison but he could actually mean rio grande it’s possible

    • Yes I dont believe he put the name of the search area in either book, that would be too easy.

  72. Kidd sorry…yes God is part of the TTOTC. AWESOME
    Old Shadows…very cool…Im originaly from the north side…Rodgers Park by Evanston..I went to Northwestern my freshman year before SIU.
    Now I hang my hat in Little Egypt.

    Good point: NM is where f hangs his hat….smiles

  73. Well, if FF’s blaze moves with the sun, and if I’m a little bit right on that postmark thing, and Tarheel is a little bit right on location, then Oct 10 y’all should be standing along west side highways, shovel in one hand, knoculars in the other, lookin for sangre at sunset. Good luck. I’ll be waiting to see the victory photo on the cover of Gloat Mag.

    • Old shadows it sounds to me like your reading Mr. Fenns foot notes. I dont post much but i sure do read alot. Just to see how close everybody is getting. There are some searcher here that are sincere in there motives to help others find the trove. and others that are not so. The not so portion of the group hear something they like and when they do they begin to discredit what is being said. I belive there actually a few of them that are in cahoots with each other. Changing there login names as they go along. And when they hear something that is far off the monkeys back end they agree and ad to it. There is alot of of information going through these blogs. The solve for the poem is in this thread alone. Cant say much for the others states, i dont read those cause its not there. Theres a solid solve on another blog that makes me belive that they also know exactly where and when to look. That solve was from about a year ago maybe a bit more. Look how close you yourself are geting and you havent been out in the field once. Research is the key here. if your not from northern NM. you have to do 10 times the research than if so. I grew up in the area and my grandfather (Dad) worked for the forest over forty years. My oldest living relative is about 90 years old. He also spent over half of his lifetime in that very mountain. Its actually his back yard the way i see it. warm waters is actually a hot skip and a jump from where he parks his truck. lol. just above the home of brown. the whole family is from said town and the whole town is one big family. ive asked and showed them every thing about that area that i have. neighbors and all. And every one now thinks im crazy. lol. Except the ones i showed the pictures.to. My uncle cant beleive he missed all of what i showed him. I told him “dont feel bad about twenty years ago i remember standing on that very rock face to face with the devil himself. I remember because there was an old coors light beer can that i found in there I picked it up and proped it on the trail that leads in and i forgot to get on the way out. And it is still in the very spot i put it.” He laughed and asked if i remembered to pic it up on the way out. Sadly i didnt. not after seeing what i saw. So with that said the not so portion of this group are being over taken by greed. So if your a cristian or go to a church and you really belive you have found god while searching for this trove. Gods word and spirit is not in a box filled with greed hiding in the shadows. Believe me i know cause God doesnt lure you in with riches you have to invite him to come in to your life. if Dal posts this ill finish my point and give you all my solve. have to take the kidos to practice. and if he doesnt post this ill redo this in the thrill facebook pge. These are just my opinions i i mean no disrespect to any one or wish to offend anybody in any way. God less
      Sancho

      • Sancho, of course there are people out there trying to sabotage other people, why should the internet be any different than the real world? I think if everyone just uses their common sense they can deal with that kind of stuff.

        Reading is a big part of being able to solve. Its been interesting learning all the things where this has lead me.

        Its good that you have so much personal knowledge and history sources to call on. Good luck on your search!
        deb

      • Sancho,

        Are you the USGS worker I met and talked to in the field back in September? I was the guy searching for the treasure.

        I agree….the treasure is in NM. Very close to Sante Fe.
        The exact mileage from Sante Fe is in a previous blog. Mr. Fenn is very crafty.

      • HI Sancho, I don’t know what to reply, just that you’ve disclosed a lot and your candor touches me.

  74. They say there is a nugget of truth in everything. Shadows why oct 10…im not to bright!

    • Mark, Just a guess. There were a lot of ‘ifs” in my statement, and there can be a lot of “nopes” too. But it was because thats the postmark date & place where the mom/postman remark was made in the book, and my sense (unreliable) was that it occurred just after a cipher clue was exposed, though I don’t know what the clue was, just that it was. And because rays of light (solstices and equinoxes etc.) have long been part of pre-tech calendars and treasure hunts. If Tarheel really saw FF’s blaze from his hotel parking lot last month, it probably will be highlighted for several days as the sunset moves across it, and his timing coincides loosely with the postmark date. So if it is FF’s blaze, it might be at its fullest glory on that date…. Then again, Tarheel may be a cockeyed alarmest, I’ve never been in Taos, and, there is always next year. Welcome to the internet.

      • I never said I saw the blaze in a hotel parking lot. What I said is the blaze came to me in a conversation I was having with my wife while standing in the Hampton Inn parking lot.

        The poem came together with the clues and my own hoofing it up and down the trails in Northern NM.

        Old Shadows has the right blog name. It will depend on the shadows. This is coming from one who has hiked over the rivers and through the woods for 40 years. The time of day will change the look of the same trail to one that is recognizable to one that is not.

        Time of day is important. The mirror must be clean before one can truly see!

        Enough said.

        • Hi Tar, Thanks for not taking offense at my comments. I put 2&2 together, got 8, added a hunch, misread your comments, spoke on it, then misquoted my own theory. So here I am, exercising my freedom to be stupid in anonymity. Is this a great country or what? Thanks again, I appreciate the correction.

          • Old Shadows,

            None taken. I’m just glad Forrest was kind enough to give all of us an opportunity to challenge ourselves, both physically and mentally.

            This whole thing reminds me of the movie “It’s a mad,mad,mad,mad world” with Spencer Tracy and an all star cast. A comedy in which all of these people were trying to find a buried treasure under four palm trees crossed to look like a “W”.

            I see all of us converging on the same area at the same time. Shovels in hand and racing to find the treasure. One person sees the “W” while the rest just frantically scurry around.

            I wonder if this is what Forrest had in mind? It appears he has a very good sense of humor.

            We are closing in on the treasure. I believe it will be found this season.

            Good luck to all and most importantly…be safe.

      • Nice one Old Shadows, Tar, you too, if you really want to find the trove i suggest you look at all the pictures you have taken while out in the field and take a good look at all the shiney spots that look out of place and there you will find your blaze well parts of it anyways. you have to be at the gunsights that cause the light to be so. Mr. Fenn said it will not be found by accident right. Well he doesnt no what kind of dum luck my family and i have. Especially my wife where some of the pictures and why she took them we have no idea. I have a brother in law that says if a man built it i can tear it apart and put it back together. Mr. Fenn is cleaver but he is only a man. Oh and Tar no im not the USGS guy sorry.

    • In my opinion the blaze is a rock map. Carved by the spaniards, to find there way through the rocky mountains. They are all over these mountains. So look for a large bolder or on a rock ledge about 5 to 20 feet tall. They are hard to read or even notice that your looking at one. But if you take pictures of them you will see alot more details even some writing that you could swear wasnt there when you took the picture. And yes the blaze is the map that will lead you to the chest. It will not look like the maps we use. it will be more like landmarks natural or man made. thats why he says an arcitect wrote the poem. he is just following the map as it was carved out. therefor WWWH can be old hot springs that have dried up. But they will be obvious. And also Too Far To Walk would be the old wagon trails used to carry suplies. I Followed the dried up hotsprings and it is exactly ten miles to this rock map. Hope this helps everyone out. And good luck.

  75. Smiles…im not sure of what the blaze is….I’m with dal…you’ll know when you know. After tons of research, taking instructions, and listening well. However
    I believe the blaze is a rainbow…the pot of Gold lays at the base of the end of a rainbow…maybe a painted rainbow? A modern pictograph…in a place to last a long time…smiles.

  76. Here’s why I think it’s in New Mexico:

    1. In the book Fenn writes “It’s in the mountains somewhere North of Santa Fe.” That sentence was written before Fenn and the Treasure were popularized in the media. If I were to say to you I’m headed up to the mountains somewhere North of Santa Fe, I wouldn’t be referring to Wyoming, nor would you think I was. All the other “clues,” i.e., “…in the Rocky Mountains,” “…above 7 thou…5 thousand feet,” etc. were provided AFTER (my conclusion) Fenn realized he had underestimated the popular interest. (What’s curious to me is that Santa Fe is at 7,000 feet, so the “canyon down” may refer to altitude rather than direction.)

    2. Fenn and his family arrived in New Mexico in 1972 with $20,000 in savings. In the next 17-18 years he acquired much of his wealth, fame and infamy while in New Mexico. While I’m sure he has many pleasant childhood memories about other locations, New Mexico has been very good to him and his family. Seems to me he may want to pay some of that back. He has spent most of the remainder of his life excavating San Lazaro Ancient Pueblo. That is truly a work of love, and you can see it in the book he published on the project. New Mexico is practically in his blood.

    3. I don’t have the sense that Fenn is a complex man. I think he is broader rather than deep…an Occam’s razor kind of guy (as most fighter pilot’s are). To him, simple solutions to the problem are best. Simplest solution would be to place it near his adopted home. (And, another reason I quit analyzing the possible codices and ciphers in TTOTC.)

    4. If you combine the intelligence collected from several interviews…he drove to the site, made two trips from his car to the hiding spot, returned to his car, thought about what he had just done, and laughed out loud. That doesn’t seem to me as a multi-day trip to Wyoming. It sounds like his Sunday afternoon constitutional.

    5. He was at or near 80. At sprightly as he seems, that’s old. Some of the recons I’ve made, I’ve scratched off my list before the morning was done. I keep asking myself, “…could an 80 year old man, alone, with a pair of 20 pound loads, taken this risk or made this journey?”

    6. The phrase “warm waters (plural)” is a phrase unique to New Mexico.

    7. It has to be near enough for him to check on it (sooner or later), without creating a “scene.” If he was visiting Yellowstone every year for “vacation,” I might feel differently.

    • Very well done Toby, you almost have me convinced. But let me give a couple reasons why I think it is not in New Mexico.

      Mr. Fenn is doing this to be remembered. He included a 20,000 word autobiography in the chest. It’s protected to last as long as a glass jar will. He put enough gold, gems, jewels and artifacts in the chest to entice enough of us to be adventurous with hope and irrational solutions (mine included) to his poem. He has been talked about on the evening news and interviewed on an early morning television show, which I think he may have told to take a hike if they didn’t like what he had to offer. (I hope so anyway)

      Mr. Fenn is doing this to be remembered in Santa Fe New Mexico. I think this treasure hunt was intended for the local Santa Fe and New Mexico community. I think he wants to be a Santa Fe legend, someone who a local author will write about a hundred years from now. He’s doing everything necessary to keep the buzz going in Santa Fe and doesn’t really care about the national coverage. If it comes, that’s fine. But it’s the local interest he wants to keep going.

      Mr. Fenn is doing this to be remembered in Santa Fe folk lore. I think he’s enjoying the celebrity status this has brought, but I’m sure he’s not happy with the lunatics that go with it. I think he is getting enormous pleasure from all the interest every word he mutters brings and loves to unintentionally keep us all guessing about possible clues in photos, comments, emails and even in what he wears and eats.

      Mr. Fenn is doing this to be remembered 100-200 years from now. For those that think he wants this hunt over before his bones are sun bleached, I beg to differ. I think he does not want this to end by someone he just met at the book store last month. He wants the finder to learn about him through the autobiography, then through the “Legends of Santa Fe” book his story will be part of and lastly by the State of New Mexico Historical Society marker that will be built on the site of his former home and future museum. (All my wild conjecture of course)

      Mr. Fenn is doing this to be remembered 1000 years from now. He wants the Santa Fe and New Mexico communities to benefit from his famous treasure hunt and in order to keep it from being found any time soon, his clues are easily interpreted as fitting many New Mexico locations, but in reality point to only one location, and I think that is outside of New Mexico. It’s how he ensures the longevity of the hunt. And the longer the hunt goes on, the more the legend builds.

      In my opinion, the hunt was intended for the Santa Fe community, especially outside the arts and artifact collecting communities to remember him, many years from now. The chest does not need to be found there for that to happen, and the further away from Santa Fe it is, the more likely it will take longer to be found than if it’s hidden where thousands of locals, (with the same local knowledge as he), and probably the highest total number of searchers, have been looking for almost 3 years.

      I see the autobiography as a big clue that the chest is probably not in New Mexico. It’s the 20,000 words that he wants found… some day. The gold is the incentive to look for it and create the excitement.

      Mr. Fenn wants to be remembered. If the chest is found tomorrow, how long will he be remembered? I think the chest with the autobiography has been hidden where it is very unlikely, but not impossible, to be found for a very long time.

      jdh

  77. Toby, well put. F hangs his hat in NM. and even though papa was a rolling stone. Where he hangs his hat is his home…smiles.

  78. Seeing the blaze is one thing finding the blaze is another . To me seeing the blaze is like the blaze is only out a certain time of day finding the blaze to me means the blaze is there all times. Forrest says if you’ve been wise and found the blaze to me that means the blaze is something that isn’t gonna move and that you can see all day no matter the time and is there to find.

  79. I agree…and yet the spray of water and reflections of light causing a rainbow spectrum could also work. I dont know.

  80. Toby Younis – I agree that WWWH is in New Mexico – but why do you think that “warm waters” is a phrase unique to NM (just curious, if it doesn’t give anything away)…

    I would also say I agree 100% “too far to walk” is 10 miles… But, I can’t imagine if its in YS that Forrest would put such a distinct comment and description to the treasure, which just verifies more for me its not in YS…

    My interpretation of the poem currently has the 10 miles clearly showing an area for me that is obvious, at a blaze and within a 1/4 mile from a Forest Service Road, which should be easily accomplished by an 80-year-old to make two trips with 21 lbs each (approx) both ways… its at around the 7000 ft above sea level mark as well, which I agree with you too on that…

  81. Brian…I ended up where you did. The poem describes a river journey that a 80 year old man with a 42 pound load could have not made alone. That leaves a couple of options: 1. He made the journey with others, and made himself alone at the point at which he could hide the treasure, and 2. He used the forest road to place the treasure in a location that would satisfy the poem’s river journey.

    Regarding the 10 miles: In his preface to TFTW he tells a story of his 10 mile trip up the Madison River, walking and rafting, and realizes now, in his advanced age it would be too far to walk.

    In his recent interview with Collected Words, he said there was an unintended clue in TFTW. Nothing sticks out like an unintended clue that says “toofar to walk is 10 miles,” (pg xiii of TFTW) without any equivocation whatsoever.

    I don’t think the “hint/clue” was intentional. I think it was an oversight on Fenn’s part that may have very well been noticed by an editor.

    (It stuck out like a sore thumb to me. My first reaction was, “Did he REALLY write that?)

    Fenn, proudly, has mentioned on several occasions he does not use an editor (He said it again in the above cited interview.)

    For example, the mistake at the end of Chapter 6 where he sends us 52 miles “North” to Yellowstone, rather than West, the actual direction from Cody to Yellowstone. Three options: 1. It’s a mistake and uncorrected because he doesn’t use an editor, or 2. It’s intentional, and it’s some kind of clue, or 3. It’s intentional and it’s just Fenn being cantankerous. (Knowlege and Dollers?)

    If it had been made in TTOTC, I would say 2, above, maybe. But, I don’t think TFTW contains any clues, intentional or otherwise. In writing it, he would have to make the assumption that the treasure would have not been discovered in order to make TFTW valuable to the hunt. Could you imagine how unpopular it would be to publish a book with additional clues for a treasure that had already been discovered? I also think that’s what the whole “map as afterthought” is all about. It sells a couple more books, but after all, it’s just a map of the Rockies. Kinda.

    And, it’s not like he’s making a ton of money selling books. Considering their high-quality, his margins must be slim to nothing, and slim is saddling his horse.

    I think it’s about what we used to call in history class at St. Michael’s, “Achilles Legacy.” The memory of who he was via books, buried bronze bells and jars, and hidden treasures, most of which will outlast him, and us.

    About the phrase “warm waters” being uniquely New Mexican: It is because, in New Mexico, the distinction is not between warm waters and cool waters.

    t.

  82. I couldn’t believe the 10 mile thing when I first read it… I read it 3 times to make sure I was understanding what was being said, and while he was talking about the Madison River, the 10 mile distance is key…

    What did you mean “the distinction is NOT between warm waters and cool waters.”? Did you mean to put “NOT” in there? like the difference between warm water fishing and cold water fishing?

    I’m not 100% sold that the 10 miles is the unintended clue he is talking about in the book – part of me still thinks it has to do with the map, just not sure what yet…

    Its not about the money for him – its about getting his stories out there – a lot of them are blog entries from his site, just illustrated… some are parts of TTOTC, etc, I didn’t get many new (if any) clues out of TFTW that I didn’t come around with TTOTC…

    I think you are more looking in the Taos area though, I don’t think our hidey spots are the same… I’m more West than you are… but it appears similar thoughts…

    I was last out in July 2013… I had breakfast with Forrest and my brother in law at Loretto Inn and Spa… It was just the 3 of us and later on, Dana, from Loretto made it a foursome for breakfast. Forrest or Dana paid for the breakfast and then he left… I didn’t come away any more aware, other than I’m convinced that Spanish translations of some of the poem are important in some way, and that it is in NM… I also am convinced that some of the things in TTOTC translated into Spanish are important in some way as well… Forrest also told me that if I found it, he’d probably buy it back from me… 🙂 He’s got a hell of a poker face – he’s hard to read…

    My sister e-mails with Forrest 2-3 times a week – they don’t talk about the treasure, just chat about things… I think he appreciates it that she’s one of the few people who don’t care anything about the treasure at all… Plus, like I think you said, he likes the pretty ladies 🙂

    You are right about the editing as well… If not, why would he change the poem to “answer” instead of “answers” between the two books. He has responded it was unintentional and doesn’t mean anything, but no editor worth his/her salt would have allowed the poem to be published in a changed fashion between the two books – the poem is the CRUX of the whole deal!!! It’s like changing “The Star Spangled Banner”…

    I hope that the poem is much simpler than a lot of people are making it – I don’t want it to be full of coordinates or anagrams or whatever… its a beautiful poem – a beautiful idea – Forrest seems to have a beautiful soul – so I want the answer to the poem to be beautiful / eloquent / amazing… I think I’ll be disappointed a bit if its not… To me, the thrill of the chase is now figuring out the poem – the treasure would be a nice addition, but I hope somehow, over time, if we don’t find it, that someone does, and even anonymously provides the solution to the poem…

    bp

    • Brian and Toby-
      Ordinarily I just let things go on this blog…okay…Sometimes I let them go 🙂 I try to be open about considering new theories…but seeing how much weight you are placing on that 10 mile statement in Forrest’s preface I can’t hold back. In my opinion, “10 miles” cannot be a clue. Here is my reasoning.

      When Forrest was writing the preface for his book back in May/June he wrote what would eventually become the version we see today. But it didn’t start out the way it is now, particularly concerning the 10 mile “clue”.

      Here is how that passage looked in a draft Forrest sent to several folks for review on June 2nd…
      “I put a small rubber dinghy in the Madison River a few miles from West Yellowstone, Montana, and fished down stream to Bakers Hole. That part of the river was in the quietly forgotten western edge of Yellowstone Park. There were no roads, no trails and no ranger to remind me that I wasn’t supposed to do that.
       
      The straight-line distance was about eight miles, but by the river, it had to be at least twice as far.”

      I did exactly what many readers are about to do…I opened up a digital map and starting at Baker’s Hole I traced back a wavy and curvy 16 miles, upstream on the Madison.
      It was quickly evident that 16 miles upstream did not put him a “few” miles from West Yellowstone..rather it put him a whole lotta miles from West Yellowstone.

      I called Forrest’s attention to the miscalculation. He did some reconsideration of where he may have started and where he may have stopped. I did more measuring on the river and made some suggestions.

      The next iteration I saw was what we have in his preface today:
      “I put a small rubber dinghy in the Madison River a few miles from West Yellowstone, Montana, and fished downstream to baker’s Hole. That part of the river was in the quietly forgotten western edge of Yellowstone Park. There were no roads, no trails, and no rangers to remind me that I wasn’t supposed to do that.

      The river distance was about ten miles, and the best fishing was in the bends where the water turned greenish deep and beautiful.”

      In between the iterations we had some conversation about the area he walked on the Madison. In the end he simply wasn’t certain how many miles it was…or even precisely where he started. What was cemented in his memory was the lovely journey of peace and natural beauty that he experienced on that stretch of lovely water.

      In the end he landed on 10 miles. Not because he had any motive to give folks a clue, but rather an attempt to be more accurate about a distance between two somewhat vague points.

      The “10 miles” would not even be there if I had not intervened. So, for whatever it’s worth…I rest my case for saying “10 miles” cannot be a clue…

      dal…

      • Dal / Toby,

        That’s a great comment – thanks for the clarification.

        However, what better way for an “unintentional” clue to get in… being corrected by someone and not checking the original context into which a detail fits in…

        If 10 miles is too far to walk to something, then 16 miles is as well…

        However, if at some point in the future it is proven that 5 miles was actually “too far to walk”…, then 10 miles AND 16 miles are also TOO FAR TO WALK – see the logic?

        I have 10 as a “soft reference” at this point… I don’t think I may stick to it as hard as you, Toby, but I think to completely discount it would be an error, just like anything else Forrest puts in print – it is what it is…

        Isn’t it fun to feel part of the book? He had a conversation with my sister about the short poem about where you find treasures at towards the beginning of the book… he ended up putting “wise man” but he was considering putting “Buddha” – ultimately he didn’t go with Buddha because he felt like people may get offended…

  83. Whatever Forrest puts in his book he put it there for a reason he knows what he’s doing its all intentional. He probly read it over and over before it was put out. What forrest really wants is us to go out in a raft or canoe down a river looking for the clues on the way down

  84. Hey Tar, Maybe Mad Mad World, or maybe Treasure of The Sierra Madre (Bogey 1948)

    • Another classic. Thank goodness we have TCM.

      Just like Treasure of the Sierra Madre I guess this thing could make people paranoid. I do not even tell my friends or family (other than my wife) of my solution for fear they may trek out there and grab the treasure.

      I’m thinking of another trip soon rather than in the Spring. It is all about work, timing and plane ticket prices.

      This would be my third trip and they say “the third times a charm”.

  85. I don’t remember who said it here but someone mentioned that a blaze could be a foundation like been wise and found as in foundation. If it was and you found the foundation how would you look quickly down wat would that mean to do

  86. 8.25–10…
    I only know how far is too far …when my feet hurt. Jeep.

    The blaze I’ve decided (for me) will only be known when the hunter is drawing nigh…speculation.

    wwwhs:
    Flows…warm water…stops…
    Evaporates?
    Cools..mixes with?
    I’ll go ahead and say what I mean!
    I like the Red River, I’ll tell you why…The Red River is fed by both snow melt and hot springs. I believe it stays a constant 48 to 56 deg. Trout love it. I like it.

    The Rio and the confluence of the Red…I’m not sure…but DO NOT always meet the requirements for wwwhs…ie summer temps.

    However…the Red River by itself does….hot springs and cold snow make cool water.
    And yet There is another option. But I’d rather explore the canyon down.

      • Toby-
        I don’t know the answer to that. But I have not felt inclined to pin a number on it either. It is the distance between where warm waters halt and the home of Brown. Knowing that I don’t have to walk that distance is good enough for me. I have always assumed I should take some other mode of transport between those two places. My best guess is that I should take Ezmerelda on the road between those points…but I have no reason at this point to exclude raft, canoe, train, time machine, elevator…

        I think once a person figures out where warm waters halt and then where the home of Brown is…the method will become clear…
        I do not believe trying to figure out the distance first is of any value…
        It’s too limiting..and knowing Forrest I would not exclude the idea that it has nothing at all to do with physical distance..

        But if you believe that he is calling out a physical distance…mileage…I think it bears repeating that Forrest walked 91 miles from West Yellowstone to Bozeman once.

        dal…

        • Dal…

          Regardless of what distances he has walked, and/or the editorial conversations that took place before the book was published, Forrest Fenn wrote:

          1. “The river distance was about ten miles.”

          2. Then, “…I promised myself that someday I would make the trip again.”

          3. And then, with a regretful nod to not having done it, “For me now, it’s just too far to walk.”

          As a searcher, I have to believe that what he has written accurately represents the following simple truth:

          That ten miles, at his present age, is too far (for him) to walk.

          If I can’t trust what he has written in TFTW, then why should I trust anything else that he has written, up to, and including, that he hid a treasure “…someplace in the mountains North of Santa Fe?”

          As a searcher, I’ve made the choice.

          Until proven otherwise, I assume he hid a treasure in New Mexico, and that I have to travel at least ten miles from “beginning it” to finding the blaze which is in the shape of a star.

          Heading out again on Friday for three days, hoping to get another long weekend hunting before a trip to visit daughters on the East Coast for two weeks.

          Wish me luck!

        • Dal,

          You and Stephanie are getting warm. However, even though you may solve the first two clues it is a tad harder than it seems.

          I solved the first two clues on my previous trips but did not understand the rest. It took an aha moment and back aching hiking to see firsthand what was out there.

          Seeing the area will definitely help one solve all clues.

          The seasonal temperature is changing now and it will be cold so one must be brave to bring the treasure out of its hiding place.

          Good luck to all.

    • Hi Mark, I think the red river might be too far south to start if your using the rio. Forrest talks a lot of things in the past. I think the answer is in the past and that will always be there for people to look up. Look at how the Rio began. Of course I don’t have the answer….so maybe your right and I’m wrong, but it’s an interesting history lesson none the less.

  87. Well Dal we agree on alot. In my odd way of looking at things, I can see alot farther than I can walk. Wide vistas will do that, wont they? I’ve never been concerned with an exact distance as long as I eventually get there. Is that a New Mexican way of looking at things? lol

  88. Im driving the canyon down. but a horse…4×4…even mountain bike would work.
    It seems to me toby…if he was not able to make the trip again…it was too far…then 10 miles is too much but under ten miles (3 years ago) may be ok…ie 8.25.

    Where im going may just be under ten miles from RR/wwwhs.

  89. He walked 91 miles before. So he used to walk it, but now it’s too far to walk. I always wondered why he invited searchers to his home. He’s also talked about people being at his house and his neighbors house. He used his house’s return address on the new book packages. So I felt that could have to do with the distance. Taos is 72 miles from Santa Fe(not as far as he walked). Also, I know he was spending time in Taos when he got cancer, because he was spending time at the Fechin house. Those are things that brought me there. The only other thing I’ve used with miles is mile markers. Those would always be the same if there’s a sign there or not.

  90. Hi Stephanie…nice to hear ya…I miss talking w you and jen.
    Headed to camp in Taos walmart parking lot next week.
    I finally have a take on the Brown. if Im correct…this is a slam dunk.
    If not… I still get my books signed….win win! Woohoo…

    • Where have you been? Hey so your going to go to the book signing? There’s a chance I might be going also. That would be cool to meet up if I’m able to go.

  91. To all,

    Has anyone recently heard if Forrest has verified the treasure is still out there? He is the only one who can let us know.

  92. That would be as cool as finding the box (almost). It has truly been the thrill of new friends and places…
    This will probably be the last hunt this year. Due to Weather!
    I hope we all cross paths. I’m more excited by the nano second.
    Did f say the hunter will move with confidence?

    • Mark,

      I too have been to the TAOS Walmart multiple times. Trail mix and water.

      Those who search should start video taping the searches. When the treasure is found we should all meet in TAOS to share our adventures and discuss the strategies used and how we came up with them. I believe it would be an interesting time.

      After keeping up with this blog it appears we all may be closer than at any other time.

      Someone will find the treasure…just a matter of time.

      Good luck in your search this weekend.

  93. Actually no rio in my solve Stephanie…Im east…
    I dont mind saying…my canyon down is Cimmarron. Too far to walk from the Red River.
    Red River could be layerd a bit…smiles.
    However, and Im going too far now…before planes trains and automobiles….those who roamed these areas walked. Then of course oxen and mules…grins

  94. Tarheel….I’m an open book. I drive a green dodge truck with a camper top. I’ll be there the 20th.
    My expectations are high…to get my books signed…smiles.
    Anything else such as meeting Stephanie, dal, Clinger, jen, kanabite, deb, mapsmith, oak, …
    Hey…light bulb…if all the hunters signed a book…and said a kind word….that would be an awesome Christmas present for f. …or like a yearbook…lol.

  95. Hello,

    Recently my kids dragged me out to NM to find this treasure which I knew nothing about. They were very excited at first and insisted that was where they wanted to go. We have camped together before so nobody is exactly a stranger to the wilderness. We returned empty handed but had an adventure we will cherish for a while.

    The folowing is one area we had high hopes for. Maybe it will be helpfull, maybe not, but it looks like others have shared their quest as well.

    We started where warm waters halt: Eagles nest dam where the water begins cold and then took it down the canyon. After moving through the healthiest wild Brown trout fishery in the state of NM (home of Brown?) we knew we had to “put in” somewhere down stream, below the fishery. From that point there seemed to be alot of places where the meek should not go.

    We settled for route 204 north and it was not long before we noticed a CHASE RANCH on one side of the dirt road, quite a spread. Coincidence?…. Probably.

    We continued on and began to get a little excited (or worried, not sure which the boys were experiencing but it worried me at first sight) when we noticed boulders of great size pearched precariously on the steep hillside just to the right of the road, with no place to pull off should they start to tumble down. -no place for the meek indeed-

    No paddle up your creek: There was a dry creek bed to the left of the road, as well as flatlands and cliffs, also at least one mine shaft according to a gps unit we had.

    Heavy loads may of been the electrical boxes and power lines also present. Dont know for sure but water high was what we were doing with our canteens to drink from them.

    From there it began to fall apart, including our loose associations identifying/labeling the clues. we did see several crevices, little canyons, and caves everywhere, mostly along the right side of this pretty and long dirt road. checked several of them, mostly looking for water high or even a spring up there. We were pressed for time so could not see all possibilities and soon it became exclusivly Philmont land and we turned around. That afternoon proved very exciting and adventurous. Would not trade it for the world, it was what we needed.

    Thanks for reading and good luck in your searches.

    • 1blessed2-

      I think what you went through is what we have all gone through…most every time we go out…
      We start out confident and as we get further along, confidence fades as we realize that things just are not falling into place. So we try inventing solutions on the spot…I liked your “water high” solution…cracked me up…very inventive…
      In my opinion you should plan for more exploration time and have more than one place in mind if the first one fails..
      Sounds like you had a great time though and saw some marvelous western geography..
      Maybe you and the kids could take up fly fishing..a great pastime while you’re out in the mountains. Helps clear the mind and provides a different focus while you enjoy the land…

      dal…

      • No blog….. I have thought about it however.
        How am I?
        Basically I am tired, still recovering from two back to back trips to Wyoming last month. Smiles.

        • Dal…

          I reviewed the editorial conversation you described having with Forrest about the distance traversed on the Madison River when he was younger, and the pleasantness of his memories of it.

          But, I noticed that the conversation was primarily about distances, some on maps and others memories and/or various measurements thereof.

          You don’t say you and he discussed the relationship between -any- distance traversed on the Madison and the phrase “too far to walk.”

          How much of a surprise was it to see the two of them together in TFTW’s preface, separated by a few sentences?

        • Here’s what Forrest says in the Collected Words interview about “the clue:”

          Forrest: “Well, there’s a clue in this book that I didn’t know was gonna be in the book.”

          Dorothy: “Oh? What’s that?”

          Forrest: Well, I’m not gonna say. You’re gonna have to find it for yourself, Dorothy.”

          Dorothy: “I’ve read the book twice Forrest.”

          Forrest: Normally, you would not find this clue, but it’s an important clue if you can find it.

          • “Normally you would not find this clue,…”
            What does that mean?
            “But it’s an important clue if you can find it.”
            What about if you cannot find it? Is it still an important clue?

            Forrest-speak!!

          • Dang it. I didn’t know about this extra clue. Now I’ll have to see which pile of clothes I stuffed the book under and read it again. 🙂

  96. How far is too far to walk to fulfill ones dreams? To the ends of time need be! If this hunt ended tomorrow….would the thrill of the hunt end…never. We walk!

    • Isnt it interesting how everything in the poem has more than one meaning? Keeps me thinking…

      • The question being how far is too far to walk. Have we estimated the distance with or without 42#s of treasures?

        • deb the Taos weather looks chilly?
          I might have to rethink sleeping in my truck.
          Are the trails open or going to be open?

          Boston will need another miracle tonight.

          • Well there was snow, but a warm front behind that. I will watch for the extended forecast for you to get some temps. Im sure you are used to much colder weather than we get. lol

          • Mark, the overnight lowest low was projected to be 27 degrees.Daytimes from high 50s to 67.
            Guess it depends on how experienced and prepared you are?

  97. Regarding TFTW, the book: I’ve found “inconsistencies” throughout the book, perhaps one in each chapter.

    At his book signing, when I asked Fenn why he misspelled “knowlege” on one of his bells, and “dollers” on one of his jars, he replied (incredulously, I thought), “Because it makes them more interesting, don’t you think?”

    For example, there are those kind of interesting inconsistencies in chapter 1, where he changes the construction date of the Temple house, chapter 39, where he sends us North rather than the correct West, and chapter 45 where he puts Alexander Hamilton’s image on a $100 bill.

    Could it be they are not clues, but Fenn’s way of being “interesting?”

    • if you you look on the thrills face book page i gave you guys a picture of a blze of alexaander hamilton on the side of the mountain. nobody commented on it or is taking me serious believe me if you look it is there. Deb, Dal, Old Shadows, take a few minutes of your time and look. And Old shadows that picture of the indian i promised you is also there.

      • Sancho , I can see lots of things in your picture. I supposed you are posting under last name of sanchez?

        I probably have too much imagination! lol.
        Looks like one of my favorite areas in nm. Keep looking, dont give up.

        deb

        • lol your right. Bottom picture just above the shaded area you will see a shadow of an owl and a couple of birds flying along the cliff and a shadow of what looks like Alexander Hamilton. Coincidence? This is where the poem has led me. and its exactly ten miles from WWWH and just below HOB. top picture is actually what we call the jay leno indian head dude. if you look at the shadow of the indian in Mr. Fenns home its identical

  98. Dal…

    I reviewed the editorial conversation you described having with Forrest about the distance traversed on the Madison River when he was younger, and the pleasantness of his memories of it.

    But, I noticed that the conversation was primarily about distances, some on maps and others memories and/or various measurements thereof.

    You don’t say you and he discussed the relationship between -any- distance traversed on the Madison and the phrase “too far to walk.”

    How much of a surprise was it to see the two of them together in TFTW’s preface, separated by a few sentences?

    • Toby-
      You are right. We did not discuss anything about that preface other than the issue of the accuracy of the distance. But your question is fair.
      I was seriously surprised that he would put the three together…the distance…the river…the line from the poem…
      I don’t remember exactly what I wrote…something to the effect that the Madison between Baker’s Hole and the Barns was going to be packed with searchers and I would make a killing because I was going to set-up a stand and sell ice water and hot dogs. Forrest said something about refusing to be censored just to protect the fish and keep people out of the Madison…But these pseudo-quotes are only approximations. Precise quotes are now impossible…

      dal…

  99. Here’s what Forrest says in the Collected Words interview about “the clue:”

    Forrest: “Well, there’s a clue in this book that I didn’t know was gonna be in the book.”

    Dorothy: “Oh? What’s that?”

    Forrest: Well, I’m not gonna say. You’re gonna have to find it for yourself, Dorothy.”

    Dorothy: “I’ve read the book twice Forrest.”

    Forrest: Normally, you would not find this clue, but it’s an important clue if you can find it.

  100. Another awesome day in Southern Ill. It looked cold in northern N.M.
    9 more days til take off…I’m headed to Taos for a day hunting then coming for hugs f.
    dal…wil you be there the 22nd?

    • Is there a book signing on the 22nd? I thought there was one on November 2 at Moby Dickens bookstore.

      Maybe I got the date wrong.

      • There’s a Forrest Fenn/”Too Far to Walk” book signing on October 22 listed on the Collected Works Bookstore events calendar beginning at 6pm.

        • Dal,

          Thanks for the update. As of now I cannot be there. North Carolina is a long way from Taos. But one never knows.

          I’m hoping for a large turnout.

          Ya’ll be safe and good luck.

  101. OK, heres another thought for your consideration … but if true, will only be helpful for those able to search it out in NM. Again, its postulated on mom’s ‘postman’ comment.
    I think the missing ball of string is a long string of words or letters or bits of clues that braided thru the stories and at its end, revealed a partial clue for a clever reader (not me). That partial clue, when known, then needed the reference of ‘postman’ to push it further.
    I thought the string’s reveal might have been the word ‘Saturday’, which pushed me to the postmark on the Olga story (Taos Mt. and Oct.10). I thought that some natural blaze on a rocky wall which might not be very prominent in ambient light, might on that date be very luminous in the setting sun.
    That still might be true, but there might be a different reason for the ‘postman’ remark … one from the depression era when folk traded fish for potatoes, and another from FF’s art knowledge. Didn’t the WPA do a lot of artwork in NM during the depression? Like murals and such? Like in public places? Like on post office walls? A picture is worth what? And fer-cryin-out -loud, look down, it might even be in the post office bushes!
    Never having been there, it’s just a shot in the light.

    • The problem with your theory is that October 10, 1983 was not a Saturday. It was a Monday.

      Like all the other postmarks in the book with legible years, the days and dates don’t match. The postmarks with illegible years are more difficult to assess.

      The most intriguing is Fenn’s wedding day. The caption below his wedding photo indicates they were married on December 27, 1953. The postmark above the photo indicates Saturday, December 27 with an illegible year. Which makes sense, as most weddings are on Saturdays.

      But, December 23, 1953 was a Sunday.

      When I asked Fenn why he and his bride were married on a Sunday, he said his mother-in-law and Peggy had made the decision and he “…went along for the ride.”

      I’ve spreadsheeted them all, and analyzed five ways from Sunday. Nada. Fenn being interesting.

      • Are you relying on the year to pair them? Saturday fit my imaginary alpha-solve and 10/10 fit my imaginary sun-angle reveal. See Al’s method, pg 14. Hey, he looks a lot like Mylie.

        • Oops, I’m not done. Wrong maybe, but not done. That your spreadsheet finds the postmark combinations invalid, doesn’t mean each element (day/month/year) can’t stand alone. In fact, that your spreadsheet finds ALL COMBOS FALSE, pretty well indicates their independence. Spreadsheets are antagonistic to freedom,

          • December 21 is the winter solstice. that gives about a 2 to 3 day window to look for the blaze. and if the weather is clear you can also look at night. the moon will rise and set in the exact same spot as the sun. Your effort will be worth the cold. i havent read the book but i think there is a reference to some gun sights from a bb gun. please correct me if im wrong.

          • if any of you live in albuquerque look at the sandia mountains there are 2 examples of what a gunsight would look like.

  102. Sancho, If the blaze is a natural formation, a date of high illumination need not necessarily be a significant date like a solstice. That would be a double wammy. But keep watching.
    No gun sights mentioned in the book, I think you are referring to something I described on another site a while back. In the book there are places where FF talks as a boy, and places where he talks as a man. The gun sight image I pulled out of two stories, SPANISH TOYS (spoken in his boys voice-about a nickel under a grave marker) and MY WAR FOR ME (spoken in his mans voice – about the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry). The BB came from a different story about shooting birds – robins see the BB coming and duck, the Meadowlark is blind.

    • Thank you for clearing that up for me. OLD SHADOWS. Love that call sign. im posting some cool pics on the thrill fb page hope you all enjoy them.

      • lol doesnt that look like alexander hamilton. The shadow on the cliffside. maybe im just over thinking things again. I tend to see things that arent there. I have plenty more. Now thats an old shadow. Hear me all and listen good. if you are brave and in the wood i give you directions to the gold.

    • ive tried taking this picture over and over on seperate trips and i havent been able to get the same result. Why? i think maybe i took it on the summer solstice. We went back a week later amd no dice. Again i go back in time and research the anasazi and there sun dagger. Its really an interesting read. Just like your posts Old shadows there is alot to learn from you. No cyphers just truth. Oh and the robbin thing very true. And dont get me started on the duck thing. Almost sounds like it could be a childrens short story with ducks and turtles, eagles ,owls, we could call them the watchers of the trove. lol. Nice one Mr. Fenn.

  103. Brimley, bob is treating you like a swollen prostate w/ears…whats he trying to pull over ya?

    Bob…ok stop. Bob…ok stop!
    Too much fun…lighten up.
    4 days til show time!

  104. Okay…I personally should be moderated…woohoo.

    Waterhigh much respect.

    Can mapsmith come out and play?
    With hard work…you could earn your getting along well with others merit badge….
    Smile n.
    Mark H.

  105. Cmon. I’m listening to the GD…Blues for Allah. pumping up for the long hall to the land of Enchantment….
    dal…ever been to Telluride?…i saw Jerry there in 1987. Mayan calander
    Changing of time or something…I had the honor of hanging out with Bill Graham for a few minutes…
    Great times…smiles.

  106. How’s the search going down there? I Lived in Clovis for a while back in the 90’s – had some great times. I’ve been looking up here in CO, mostly up around Glenwood Springs. Nothing yet, but having a blast anyways. Luck to all!

  107. Hi Colorado Mike,
    The Chase is the same.
    Awesome!

    deb…hows it going? How’s the weather?
    If alls good…I’ll be headed that way tomorrow…I’m super siked.

    • Weather is good today, come on down. You can always check the weather underground for your search location to get real time forecasts.

      Good luck to you Mark, and have a safe trip!

  108. Photos from Fenn Event at Collected Works 10/22.

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202408773239777.1073741877.1206756412&type=1&l=2f4651f088

    I counted 70 attendees from the back of the room where I had positioned myself with my camera. Approximately 20 raised their hands when one of the gentlemen on the dais asked how many in the audience were “active searchers.”

    Fenn provided a couple of “clues:” the chest is NOT on top of a mountain, and it is NOT higher than 20,000 feet.

    He reinforced the idea of NOT looking where a 79-80 year old man could go, and that he intentionally makes mistakes in his books (he referred to his commentary (in TTOTC) regarding Hemmingway’s “For Whom the Bell Tolls” which he incorrectly identifies the era as WWI rather than the Spanish Civil War.

    I thought he also reinforced my hypothesis that the unintended clue in TFTW was the reference in the preface of the book.

    Much of the material had been documented before, but it was another opportunity to observe him in real time.

    Video to follow once it’s rendered and uploaded to YouTube. Probably 10/23.

    • Thanks for the report Toby. Interesting that he said 20,000 feet at this event but said it was no higher than 10,200 feet in an interview reported in the December, True West Magazine.

      20,000 feet is apparently meaningless since no mountain in the Rockies is higher than 14,440 feet…this being Mt. Elbert in Colorado.

      However, there is much Rocky Mountain ground higher than 10,200 feet. So eliminating that would be a nice bonus.

      As always…Forrest continues to add to his own controversy..

    • Thanks Toby-
      I think it’s just amazing how folks on this blog are willing to share information with one another. In a less interesting world people keep all their ideas and possibilities to themselves. Sharing gives away a part of the competitive edge to those you don’t know. So why do it?

      Both Stephanie and Toby made sure we all have a chance to hear what Forrest said and what was said of Forrest at the book signing. It’s nice to know people care about those of us who could not attend…

      Maybe folks share because it enhances the experience for them….or maybe they share because they feel it equals things out for some of the things they learned. I know this..it’s empowering to share. It makes a person feel good to make a contribution to the knowledge base…and it’s nice to hear someone say thanks…
      Thanks again Toby…I appreciate your effort and your willingness to share…

      “Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.” – Buddha

      dal-

  109. Thanks Toby, Enjoyed it. But I wonder why FF does these events… just riding the wave or what? Anyhow, your efforts are appreciated.
    I was surprised by FF’s reference to the Micky Spilane book, I THE JURY. I remember years ago classroom discussions about this book as a marker of societal change; as an acceptance, even glorification, of vigilantism. Previously in crime stories/movies the dick caught the criminal and turned him over to the authorities for justice. In this Spilane book the main character metes out his own justice.
    Just a curious memory.

    • It also goes along with the chapters on retribution, and concy and me if you look at it that way.

  110. Selected quotes transcribed from the Forrest Fenn event at Collected Works, October 22, 2013

    If you read the preface to my book, you’ll understand why I titled it “Too Far to Walk.”

    When I write, I can say anything I want to, because I don’t have any rules.

    In each of my books, I’ve made up words.

    There’s one clue in this book (TFTW) that’s not in “The Thrill of the Chase,” and I didn’t know the clue was in this book until it was printed.

    If I don’t have an answer to a question, I just make up one. Because a person asks a question, needs an answer.

    I’ve said before the treasure chest is heavy. And it…I made two trips to hide it where I wanted it to be. But I’ve told people: don’t look for the treasure chest in a place where a 79 or 80 year old guy can’t take it.

    People tell me their climbing on top of the mountain. When these guys are making a mistake I don’t want to interrupt them.

    The treasure is hidden below 20,000 feet.

    I haven’t given a clue that I think was going to help anybody…

    Well, you know…let me put this in perspective. So many people have decided they’re going to take a picnic lunch out on Sunday and look for the treasure…or something to do over spring break. I’m lookin’ at a hundred years down the road…a thousand years, maybe ten thousand years down the road. It took me 15 years to write the poem. I’ve changed it so many times and I’ve said before that I didn’t write that poem…it was written by an architect…each word is deliberate.

    People tell me where they are…they’re very precise in their descriptions of where they are…where they’ve been and I can tell that some of them have been pretty close.

    A metal detector will help you if you’re exactly in the right spot.

    I’ll tell you that it’s not on a top of any mountain. That’s a big clue ’cause there’s lots of mountains out there…it may be close to the top…

    If a person reads the poem over and over…and are able to decipher the first few clues in the poem, they can find the treasure chest. It may not be easy, but it certainly isn’t impo…I could go right straight to it.

    I’ve said some things in my books… I’ve made some deliberate errors, just to see if anybody would find them and they don’t and they haven’t.

    When I wrote that poem, I wasn’t playing any games. It’s straightforward.

    (How many clues has someone cracked?) They’ve cracked the first two, and went right past the treasure chest. Several people have done that.

    • One could interpret that the poem was written by an architect as a clue. How about this southwestern architect, Arthur Brown. But if that is a helpful hint, I certainly couldn’t find it.

  111. To all,

    There is a waterfall involved in this whole search.

    Remember Vietnam…..a very important clue.

  112. I’m attending the event on the afternoon of November 2nd at Moby Dickens Book Shop in Taos. I have been granted permission by Forrest and the proprietor of the bookshop to video record the event. I’ll upload it to my YouTube account after I edit and render it. I’ll post the link to the end of this thread.

    If you have any questions you’d like to have Forrest answer, please add them to this thread. I plan to write them on 3×5 cards and present them to the moderator when he asks if there are any questions from the audience.

    I reserve the right to edit any question that includes the use of the word “metaphysical.”

    Regards,

    t.

    • Toby, thanks so much for all you do to record these events and show them to us! I missed the Oct 22 one by a day and didn’t even get a chance to search anyplace as we were only in Santa Fe a short time visiting relatives. I’ll try to think up a question or two for you to ask ff.

      Metaphysical – Hee hee. 🙂

  113. There’s a lot of questions to be asked here’s a few the one you guys like the most of these please let Toby know. We’re the ones 500ft away searchers . Were the searchers that got the first 2 clues right the same that were 500ft away. Ask to recide the poem. Has anyone gotten more then 2 clues right just not in order. Has anyone mentioned the right blaze. Can someone find it during winter time. The clue that’s in TFTW that he didnt know was there till after he finished book is the clue a big clue or won’t really help. Ask him since the today show isn’t doing the clues no more if he can give one that night. Too many questions to ask me fenn I’m sure he won’t answer any of those but worth a try . Lol

    • J.R.

      The ones within 500ft may or may not have been searchers. The one(s) which may have been pretty close were within 500ft because they had told Forrest of their location.

      Forrest was told of the location but the individual did not go through the list of the nine clues although they had been followed… but at the time of the search, not knowingly.

      Later after the individual left the search location is when it all came together. The individual had already left the location and state and then called Forrest.

      Just where the searcher had been and his solution to the poem were told to Forrest. This is the only way Forrest could have known that a searcher was pretty close.

    • Toby,
      Thorough work as usual. However, I’m not sure why Dal is so persistent about that 10200 feet information. We have yet to verify this information. If you can find a creditable source for this before release of the December issue then by all means do so. Normally, you tend to stick to the facts or at least provide a feasible postulation. Thanks for your attention to detail.

      • Liv42day-
        Jeese…make one point and I am persistent…
        I would use the word clarify..not persistent..
        But to answer your question, its already been documented by a searcher who asked Forrest if that was actually what he said…
        And according to that searcher who’s comment is on this very blog…Forrest confirmed that he said it was below 10,200feet..
        That’s a pretty useful hint to me…

        • thanx Dal for clearing that up.Every factoid is one tiny step forward.You have the patience of a saint.Good luck all you searchers out there!!

          • The only questions I might ask Forrest would be ones that are not related to the “Chase”. The odds for a direct answer would be much higher. No pressure conversation w/no expectations might be the way to go.

  114. Has anyone searched Burned mountain in NM its right under 10.200 elev and Burned as in Blaze.

    • Looks like a very intimate affair…
      Who are the people..?
      I recognize Toby in the first pic…who are the others?

    • Nice pictures Toby – wish I could have been there. Never did make it to Taos when I was in Santa Fe – maybe next time.

      Looking forward to your video too – we all really appreciate all you do to share ff’s book signings with us. Were you able to ask questions?

  115. Good stuff Toby. Not sure if you noticed the ad flyers at the bookstore for the FF event. They noted that the treasure was hidden somewhere in the mountains of Northern New Mexico. Forrest was approached about this before he left. He seemed visibly concerned and crossed out the “Northern New Mexico” verbiage and said that the statement was incorrect. He later mentioned that it “might” be there. More stuff to think about I suppose.

    • Really, really nice video of Forrest at his absolute best.
      Thank you so much Toby.
      In my opinion there is some really valuable information in that video. I think everyone who intends to search for the chest should watch it, listen to it. I got a great deal out of it…a couple of good laughs too…

    • Thanks so much for taking and posting the video of the presentation at Moby Dickens! I always get a new bit of information out of each video, and f is always fun to listen to.

  116. Ok this Hunt has gone long enough lol we got to find it anyone interested in going in on this with me let me know there’s way more then enough in this chest that ill ever need. Ps I got good info

    • HA! I just ordered both books for a young grandchild. He will inherit them , along with my beat-up and notated book. Someday, his treasure books from his grandma may engage him in the chase, and perhaps he will get to know me, adult to adult, and have a hearty laugh. …. sorta like burying jars with autobiographies, but on a smaller scale. I don’t expect FF’s treasure to be found, I hope generations of thrilled chasers will be looking for it for a long time. If somebody finds the treasure in the near future, I hope they will have the kindness to leave a marker in its place, perhaps an old tackle box with a story about themself and their search.

      • I like to think that I’ll only take the gold and leave everything else for the 2nd place searcher. Minus ff bracelet.

  117. Hi everyone. I have a couple questions about his interview at the Moby Dickens Bookshop.

    1) He said originally that he would lay on the treasure chest and let his bones rot in the sun. So does this mean it would have had to be in an open area for the sun to get to him.

    2) When he was going to do this when he had cancer, he was leaving a poem but he got well and then spent 15 years rewriting this poem? So this new spot is not the original spot from when he had cancer?

    3) Did I hear him say he buried it? I would assume you would be on the ground and bent over to be able to lean back and laugh.

    Any thoughts or what am I missing?

    • tgavis,

      I think you’re right about 1)… I think its a big hint/clue – whatever Forrest wants to call it…

      2) I asked Dal the same question as I was asked it by someone else. Dal believes, as do I, the location of the chest never changed. He knew where he wanted to hide it and it didn’t change.

      3) Something can be buried without being buried… I believe its more 4. instead of 1. below…

      bur·y

      verb (used with object)
      1. to put in the ground and cover with earth: The pirates buried the chest on the island.

      2. to put (a corpse) in the ground or a vault, or into the sea, often with ceremony: They buried the sailor with full military honors.

      3. to plunge in deeply; cause to sink in: to bury an arrow in a target.

      4. to cover in order to conceal from sight: She buried the card in the deck.

      5. to immerse (oneself): He buried himself in his work.

      • I agree with number 4 that it is concealed by something or in something which would still allow him to lay on the chest in the sun after he walked out into the desert.

        • And when he said to lean back and laugh it reminds me of the picture of him leaning back against the wall and drinking a beer(?).

  118. Good point tgavis. Ounce he got the cancer that’s when he thought of collecting and hiding it probly took him a week to write that poem he already knew where he wanted to lay with the treasure. Then he got better so did he keep that same poem or he re wrote the whole thing or he just change the take the chest and leave my bones. If its the same spot it did not take him 15 years he had to have re wrote it.

    • I believe that he hiding plance of the treasure never changed. He likely changed the poem over the 15 years as that was his mechanism to hold off actually hiding the treasure, i.e. can’t hide it yet, the poem is not quite right.

      Remember, Forrest wanted it to be difficult, but not impossible…

  119. I wonder how Mrs. F feels about that.
    How would this be okay with your family….
    Why would a successfull man want to fade away like that?
    Good questions…

    dal…did he say walk out in the dessert?
    Im having heat stroke!

    tgavis… You just through a wrench in all my solves.
    My dog will not hunt?

    Tgavis may I ask…
    Many folks on here make ref. To masons and boyscouts…
    To The Hopi and to God…
    There is exstensive literature at play here…f said architect…what do you think about any of the above?

    • Sorry about the wrenches. I am curious about the masons and boyscouts too. Alot of his beliefs follow these. The Da Vinci Code also has my attention with all the secret codes hidden everywhere. Has anybody else noticed these things?

      • The question of the Freemasons has come up before. Forrest told me he was never a Mason.
        I also asked him about the Boy Scouts. He told me he may have been in the Boy Scots but he does not remember for certain. What’s more he doesn’t think there was ever enough money for him to have been in the Boy Scouts. He is not sure.

    • Mark-
      He has said “desert” every time I have heard him tell that story. Maybe 5-6 times…So he is consistent. But this is the first time I remember him talking about flinging his body on top of the chest and letting the sun bleach his bones. And when he challenged us to consider a better way to die, he was quite serious.

      Forrest is an eccentric. He does not think like most of the rest of us. Unique is a good description of him. Fading away is not how Forrest was planning to go. Remember there would have been a poem..much like the poem we have today and a treasure…much like the treasure we have today. I think he intended to have people searching for his body and the chest at that time too. It would have caused quite a public stir…Just as now people would have been talking about Forrest Fenn…
      He knows how to attract publicity…Certainly one of the reasons his gallery was so successful…

  120. I’ve decided to establish a blog to organize and publish all the intel, media, and other content that I’m collecting as a result of the treasure hunt.

    It’s only just launched, so there’s not much there now.

    But, keep the URL handy and come and visit to measure how it develops.

    http://www.agypsyskiss.com

    Regards,

    t.

    • Thanks for putting up a website devoted real intel. I have already visited and requested a link to my site. I’ll put up a links to yours later today.
      Best,
      Phil Mason
      theforrestfenntreasure.com

  121. Hi Dal and Mark. Do we know for sure that the treasure is hidden in the same spot as originaally planned? If it is then the desert, throwing himself over the chest and sun are very important.

  122. Hello
    Im dead weight…Im srry.
    Admittedy…I followed the Gold
    Man’s greed!

    This is a strange trip we are on…Our captain and host…ff…has taken us down many comparative trails…maybe revealed to me more than I cared to know.

    I too dare to compare…not because I want to reveal anything but to learn something.

    I will set the bar low…

    I think Stephanie was in Taos…
    Thorton…Mabel and dal were there also. ff is/was.

    Is ff doing a book signing in Cody?

    As i have only mentioned the obvious…Georgia’s my wild card.

    Brimley…how about a little alumination on this?

    Hi Stephanie…deb…tgavis…Map

    • Mark-
      Of course I’ve been in Taos..I wrote several stories about that area…You can read them in the “my adventures” section of this blog. There is no secret about many of the places I have been. Stephanie has also written about many of the places she has been. There is more to this blog than just the comments and a contest. I have been out about 15 times and searched in 47 different spots in 6 states in the mountains north of Santa Fe over nearly three years…
      I’ll list a few for you…these are not specific..and not all

      Lets start in New Mexico…
      Various locations in the Moreno Valley including Elizabethtown and few of the mines
      Aqua Fria Peak and Creek
      The Angel Fire area
      Along eight miles of the Cimarron River
      Along ten miles of the Red River above and below the town of Red River
      Below Wheeler Peak including the Middle Fork of the Red River and Lost Lake and Sawmill Creek
      About three miles of the Rio Hondo
      The Box along the Rio Grande north of its confluence with the Red
      The Box along the Rio Grande south of it’s confluence with the Red
      The confluence of the Rio Grande and Rio Hondo including Manby Spring and north of the John Dunn Bridge
      A few places in Philmont where I shouldn’t have been
      A few places along Rail Canyon
      Around Kiowa Mountain
      Around Quartzite Peak
      Below Burned Mountain
      Along the Chama River south of Abiguiu Reservoir to Abiquiu
      South and West of Coyote

      Colorado
      Several spots in the mining district south of Silverton
      Several spots south of Ouray
      Several spots in the Canyon Pintado near Rangley

      Lets move past Utah and Idaho because they’re not in the game anymore

      Wyoming
      Several California Trail, Oregon Trail crossings on the Green River
      Three old Rendezvous sites
      Along the Snake north and east of Huckleberry Hot Spring
      Along the Hobart River near Bondurant
      Along Cliff Creek
      Below Schoolhouse glacier in the Tetons
      All along Teton Creek and Pass
      All along the Firehole from Nez Perce Creek to Sentinel Creek
      Firehole Canyon
      Firehole Falls

      Montana
      The Madison from Barns Hole to the 191 bridge
      The Madison from below the dam to Reynolds Pass Fishing Area
      Red Creek from 7,000ft up to about 8,600ft
      Portions of Grayling Creek
      Portions of Teepee Creek

      And some areas that I am still interested in..

  123. Yep…cost a kazillion to make a couple bucks…
    Interesting I was looking for lost lake or horse shoelake…never made it…hit the snow line…saw bear tracks…we ran like a little girls…back down to an alpine yurt and ate our sandwiches… Trampled by the Bull.
    How about the Chimayo?

  124. I am a Master Mason by trade and have been a journeyman for over 20 years.I like to think I am much better learned by not being part of the ritualistic part of Masonry.Forrest has a very good grasp of personalities and by his belt buckle insignia does not boast of his charity work.Ask him what his buckle means and I’m sure he would leave you guessing with a comment like,I like to make up my owns words.
    CSIVER was used in writing what we would call receiver.It was written re-csiver in old military writings.
    So what does sciver mean ?
    here are words currently used with ceiver.
    http://www.morewords.com/most-common-ends-with/ceiver/

    Maybe you understand that csiver/ceiver simply means information.
    But there is nothing available even online that directly tells you that except for me.So why is this simple word have a missing/hidden meaning that has to be extracted ?
    The reasons I already know.
    CSIVER is a CYPHER.It means CYPHER.
    The context it has been used should give a person a hint.
    It’s all about how information is portrayed and disseminated.Now simply stated the C is a loose O.Now the problem we are running into is what the religious people have trained how your mind perceives the implications of that information.You may have been deceived about what it really means.So it affects how you receive and conceive the information.And for sure those things affect how you transceive that information.So what is the Loose O Cypher ?
    Ask a Mason or maybe ask Forrest that question.
    I’ll tell you.
    The Loose O Cypher is Lucipher
    Well in Ancient Hebrew O Lucipher is actually
    Ah-Ya-La-La which translates as Spirit-Make- Tongue-Leader
    .But let’s not forget the rest of the biblical description.
    “Son of the morning star”=Ba-Nu—Sha-Cha-Ra=Into-Life—Woman-Seperate Man

    Spirit-Make- Tongue-Leader,Into-Life,Woman-Seperate- Man

    It is the precept of religion ,the Sha-Ta-Nu=Female-Covenant-Activity

    • We asked Forrest years ago if he was a member of the Masons. He said “no” and that he never went in for “those guys”.

  125. Hi Stephanie. That is because he was in the desert at night (not being meek)shivering in the cold air wishing his flashlight was a fire waiting for the beautiful sunrise to warm his bones. When did he say this?

    • I was just teasing. He’s said in other media things that he would sit next to the treasure and there was a time he told another blogger to bring a flashlight and a sandwich. So we really don’t know if that’s meaningful or just a joke.

      • The bringing a flashlight and a sandwich comment came out while I was on a search.I was in contact w/f by phone then,but can’t really say that the comment was directed at me.In fact,Forrest was still quite active with scrapbook postings then.

        • I thought I remember Richard blogging about it. Did you tell Richard? Just curious if Forrest might have said that to a few people which to me would make it more of a subtle hint.

          • Could have been directed at any # of searchers.He was very actively communicating w/ a lot of people then.

    • Really? I thought that was just a British term. I don’t know where I saw it, but Dal once said that f wrote him and said you only needed a flashlight if you were hunting at night. Would that be a clue not to bother looking in caves?

    • I lived and worked in England for 6 months, and I know they call them torches there. I have lived in Texas for 10 years and have been married to a native San Antonio girl for 31, and have never heard a Texan call a flashlight a torch.

        • You mean you don’t have your special secret WWWH solution yet? 🙂

          Actually, the flashlight reference could be important to some people’s solution. If ff said you needed a flashlight, that might mean the treasure was in a cave or very dark place.

          I’m not sure what cadisfliesandshinsplints meant by his statement and have never heard Americans call a flashlight a torch.

          • So, some solutions just don’t make sense in the light of the facts. Forrest has said you only need a flashlight if you are going searching at night. Hardly a helpful clue for anyone’s “solution”!

          • That was my understanding Phillip, but I was hoping Dal could verify that statement because f did say at one time to take a sandwich and a flashlight and that statement has been repeated many times on this blog. Do you have a link to verify that ff said at a later date that he was just kidding when he said you needed a flashlight?

          • CJ-
            I’m sure you will agree that Forrest has said many things over the past three years that are of no value to the search. But to some, for whatever reason, they attract attention beyond their importance. People focus in on minutia because they cannot solve the problem using the nine clues..heck, for the most part we even argue about what the actual nine clues are..

            So, because the solution is not easy…and because we all have limited ability to engage in the actual difficult problem of using the poem to find the chest..we look elsewhere for information to help us…
            “Flashlight and a sandwich” is one of those lightning rods of minutia that a lot of people circle around…endlessly..poking and probing, looking for meaning where none likely exists.

            Most of the same arguments about his “flashlight and sandwich” remark have been made..over and over..
            With each new generation of searcher the old ideas are brought up as new…even though the old ideas are still visible in many places on this blog.

            All I can suggest is that persons interested in what has been said previously about this remark from Forrest do a search on this blog on the term “sandwich” and again on “flashlight”. You may come up with a rationale that suits you. My own preference is that the remark was simply an off-hand remark. It is not a hint or clue to where or how the chest is hidden.

            Look on the “Tips From Forrest” page for more info about this and other remarks Forrest has made about the treasure.
            http://dalneitzel.com/2013/03/01/tips-from-forrest

          • Thanks for the response Dal and the link to the “Tips From Forrest”. I thought I had read that info at one time but couldn’t remember where I had seen it. I may have to go back over some of those other threads too as I think I’ve forgotten some of the other information you have posted. I completely forgot there was a search area at the bottom of the page – now I can look up the answers myself. 🙂

            Unlike you, I think many, maybe even most, of the things Forrest has sent you for the Scrapbooks, or the emails etc , are hints – very subtle, but hints none-the-less. Maybe that’s just wishful thinking on my part but often they fit in with my favorite solution! 🙂

  126. Forrest Fenn gave away that he isn’t the only one who knows where the treasure is. Did anyone else catch that? The two people who know are Forrest Fenn and Googlemaps. How else would he know it doesn’t go down far enough?

    Boy, I like to be his grandson on Thanksgiving. I’ll hop on his computer/recent searches REAL quick!

    Haha. Next time anyone here has the privilege to be a guest at Forrest’s home I bet you’ll be staring at that computer.

    • Toby. Excellent work! Your site looks great too. Thanks for all of your time and energy.

  127. When Forrest is asked about what the clues are he always starts with “Begin it where warm waters halt”. He says this is the starting point and that it will do no good trying to figure out the rest until you find this correct starting point. It can only be one place and not something ambiguous like hot springs, dams, rivers (remember he uses the word “creek”) or any other idea that could be fit into a hundred possible places. No endeavor can be more important than figuring out the warm waters clue. I used to think it was the NM fishing waters designation but that is also a thought that can take you to too many places. Forrest says if you figure this out correctly it will take you right to the spot without any guess work – his words are “there will be nothing accidental about it.” So, if the poem is a map, as f says it is, and there is nothing tricky about it, the best thing to roll around in your mind is where the heck is that one single place where warm waters halt.

    I believe it is in NM.
    I believe it is fairly near a mountain top.
    I believe the particular mountain is very special to Forrest.
    I believe the warm waters clue means what it says but is also a way of saying something else.
    Could I be wrong? 🙂

    Has anyone seen this blaze? Check it out at
    http://theforrestfenntreasure.com/fennblaze.jpg

  128. An Aside—
    There is often confusion about the purpose of Memorial Day versus Veterans Day. Memorial Day is the day we honor those folks who didn’t come back from war. Veterans Day is the day we honor those folks that did come back.

    Monday is Veterans Day. Forrest is a decorated combat veteran.
    Forrest is also a proponent of peace and a promoter of the American way of life. Might be a good day to thank Forrest for the game and wish him a peaceful and noble Veteran’s Day…
    Just saying…

    • I agree Dal. I always try to thank not only a veteran but anybody I see in uniform for doing what they are doing or what they did not only on Veterans Day but everyday. So all of you on here that are serving or have served, Thank You for serving and my Freedom.

    • Happy Veterans Day (in advance) to all ! And a hearty Oorah to Forrest for this special gift he has given to us! Semper Fi …

    • I also want to echo posts here. Thanks to all retired Veterans and current service men and women who allow us our freedom.

  129. Dal, I love the pictures at the top. Can or will you share where each was taken? Also do you know: what is the bottle he is holding in the picture of him leaning against the wall?

    • tg-
      Those terrific pics on the header of this blog were all taken by Goofy_Old_Guy. He no longer comments on this blog. He is an administrator over on chase chat. You might be able to get his attention there.

      • Dal,

        I do not go to many sites on the internet. I check your site almost daily.
        It keeps me glued to all the action in the search for the chest.
        It is an excellent site and is formatted perfectly.
        Many of us disagree on the solution, but I believe your site keeps all of us together as the common thread.
        Many thanks for your continued effort which helps all interested in the chase.

  130. Where is everyone?
    The other stories attract a lot of people.
    The Looking in NM traffic has slowed down a bit.
    I believe the chest is in NM but it has been in the 20’s and a little too cold for the search at this time.
    Spring cannot get here fast enough.
    In the meantime, good luck to all.
    Be safe and may the Forrest be with you.

  131. NSW Special Weather Statement for Northern New Mexico – Caution

    Special Weather Statement

    SPECIAL WEATHER STATEMENT
    NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ALBUQUERQUE NM
    404 AM MST THU NOV 14 2013

    NMZ501>540-142300-
    ALBUQUERQUE METRO AREA-CENTRAL HIGHLANDS-CHAVES COUNTY PLAINS-
    CHUSKA MOUNTAINS-CURRY COUNTY-DE BACA COUNTY-
    EAST SLOPES SANGRE DE CRISTO MOUNTAINS-EASTERN LINCOLN COUNTY-
    EASTERN SAN MIGUEL COUNTY-ESTANCIA VALLEY-FAR NORTHEAST HIGHLANDS-
    FAR NORTHWEST HIGHLANDS-GUADALUPE COUNTY-HARDING COUNTY-
    JEMEZ MOUNTAINS-LOWER CHAMA RIVER VALLEY-LOWER RIO GRANDE VALLEY-
    NORTHEAST HIGHLANDS-
    NORTHERN SANGRE DE CRISTOS ABOVE 9500 FEET/RED RIVER-
    NORTHWEST HIGHLANDS-NORTHWEST PLATEAU-QUAY COUNTY-
    RATON RIDGE/JOHNSON MESA-ROOSEVELT COUNTY-SAN FRANCISCO RIVER VALLEY-
    SAN JUAN MOUNTAINS-SANDIA/MANZANO MOUNTAINS-SANTA FE METRO AREA-
    SOUTH CENTRAL HIGHLANDS-SOUTH CENTRAL MOUNTAINS-
    SOUTHERN SANGRE DE CRISTOS ABOVE 9500 FEET-SOUTHWEST CHAVES COUNTY-
    SOUTHWEST MOUNTAINS-UNION COUNTY-UPPER RIO GRANDE VALLEY-
    UPPER TULAROSA VALLEY-WEST CENTRAL HIGHLANDS-WEST CENTRAL MOUNTAINS-
    WEST CENTRAL PLATEAU-WEST SLOPES SANGRE DE CRISTO MOUNTAINS-
    404 AM MST THU NOV 14 2013

    …WINTRY AND WINDY WEATHER TO RETURN LATE THIS WEEK…

    A PAIR OF STORM SYSTEMS WILL BRING SNOW TO THE NORTHERN MOUNTAINS
    AND STRONG TO POTENTIALLY EVEN DAMAGING WINDS ACROSS MUCH OF THE
    AREA.

    THE FIRST SYSTEM WILL ARRIVE ON FRIDAY…INCREASING PRECIPITATION
    CHANCES ESPECIALLY ACROSS NORTH CENTRAL AND NORTHWEST NEW MEXICO.
    SNOW LEVELS WILL REMAIN QUITE HIGH DURING THE DAY…BUT SHOULD
    LOWER BETWEEN 7500 AND 8000 FEET LATE FRIDAY NIGHT. THE GREATEST
    ACCUMULATIONS ARE EXPECTED ABOVE 9500 FEET ALONG WEST FACING SLOPES
    OF THE SAN JUAN MOUNTAINS.

    BY FRIDAY NIGHT…MOUNTAIN TOP LEVEL WIND SPEEDS WILL INCREASE
    SUBSTANTIALLY AS THE FIRST SYSTEM EXITS NORTHEAST NEW MEXICO AND
    THE NEXT SYSTEM APPROACHES THE STATE. STRONG TO POTENTIALLY DAMAGING
    WINDS WITH GUSTS AS HIGH AS 60 MPH WILL BE POSSIBLE ALONG THE
    CENTRAL MOUNTAIN CHAIN AND SOUTHWEST MOUNTAINS. AREAS JUST
    DOWNSTREAM OF THESE HIGH TERRAIN LOCATIONS MAY ALSO SEE STRONG WIND
    GUSTS FRIDAY NIGHT IF MOUNTAIN WAVE ACTIVITY DEVELOPS. STRONG AND
    GUSTY WINDS REMAIN POSSIBLE SATURDAY ACROSS THE EASTERN PLAINS.

    SNOW MAY NOT COMPLETELY TAPER OFF ACROSS THE NORTHERN MOUNTAINS
    BEFORE THE SECOND SYSTEM ARRIVES SATURDAY AND SATURDAY NIGHT.
    ADDITIONAL SNOW ACCUMULATIONS WILL BE POSSIBLE AS SNOW LEVELS DROP
    TO NEAR 6500 FEET SATURDAY NIGHT. WHEN COMBINING SNOWFALL AMOUNTS
    BETWEEN BOTH SYSTEMS…SIGNIFICANT ACCUMULATIONS ARE POSSIBLE…
    ESPECIALLY ACROSS THE SAN JUAN MOUNTAINS.

    ANYONE PLANNING TRAVEL OR OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES FRIDAY THROUGH
    SATURDAY NIGHT ARE ENCOURAGED TO GET THE LATEST WEATHER INFORMATION
    FROM NOAA WEATHER RADIO…ON LINE AT WEATHER.GOV/ABQ…OR FROM YOUR
    PREFERRED BROADCAST…INTERNET…OR PRINT MEDIA. ALSO PLEASE VISIT
    OUR FACEBOOK PAGE OR JOIN THE WEATHER CONVERSATION ON TWITTER.

    $$

    34

    Short Term Forecast

    SHORT TERM FORECAST
    NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ALBUQUERQUE NM
    120 PM MST THU NOV 14 2013

    NMZ503-504-507-508-510>526-529-142200-
    ALBUQUERQUE METRO AREA-CENTRAL HIGHLANDS-
    EAST SLOPES SANGRE DE CRISTO MOUNTAINS-ESTANCIA VALLEY-
    FAR NORTHWEST HIGHLANDS-JEMEZ MOUNTAINS-LOWER CHAMA RIVER VALLEY-
    LOWER RIO GRANDE VALLEY-NORTHEAST HIGHLANDS-
    NORTHERN SANGRE DE CRISTOS ABOVE 9500 FEET/RED RIVER-
    NORTHWEST HIGHLANDS-SAN JUAN MOUNTAINS-SANDIA/MANZANO MOUNTAINS-
    SANTA FE METRO AREA-SOUTH CENTRAL HIGHLANDS-SOUTH CENTRAL MOUNTAINS-
    SOUTHERN SANGRE DE CRISTOS ABOVE 9500 FEET-SOUTHWEST MOUNTAINS-
    UPPER RIO GRANDE VALLEY-UPPER TULAROSA VALLEY-WEST CENTRAL HIGHLANDS-
    WEST SLOPES SANGRE DE CRISTO MOUNTAINS-
    INCLUDING THE CITIES OF…ALBUQUERQUE…LOS LUNAS…RIO RANCHO…
    ANGEL FIRE…MORA…CARRIZOZO…CHAMA…CLINES CORNERS…CUBA…
    DULCE…ESPANOLA…GRAN QUIVIRA…GRANTS…LAS VEGAS…LOS ALAMOS…
    MORIARTY/ESTANCIA…PECOS…CERRO/QUESTA…QUEMADO…RED RIVER…
    RUIDOSO…SANDIA PARK/CEDAR CREST…TIJERAS…SANTA FE…SOCORRO…
    TAOS
    120 PM MST THU NOV 14 2013

    .NOW…

    SOME ISOLATED SHOWERS AND A FEW STRAY THUNDERSTORMS WILL BE POSSIBLE
    OVER PORTIONS OF CENTRAL NEW MEXICO INTO THE MID AFTERNOON. AREAS
    THAT WILL INITIALLY BE IMPACTED INCLUDE THE BOSQUE DEL APACHE AND
    SOUTHERN PARTS OF SOCORRO COUNTY…AS WELL AS COCHITI LAKE…KEWA
    PUEBLO…AND LA CIENEGA. ADDITIONAL SHOWERS MAY FILL OVER THE RIO
    GRANDE VALLEY AND THE CENTRAL MOUNTAIN CHAIN OF NEW MEXICO AS
    ACTIVITY DRIFTS SOUTHEASTWARD AT 25 MPH. BRIEF DOWNPOURS…ERRATIC
    WIND GUSTS TO 40 MPH…SMALL HAIL…AND SOME DANGEROUS CLOUD TO
    GROUND LIGHTNING. RAINFALL AMOUNTS WILL GENERALLY REMAIN LESS THAN
    TWO TENTHS OF AN INCH WITH MANY AREAS ONLY OBSERVING SPRINKLES TO A
    FEW HUNDREDTHS OF AN INCH.

    $$

    SHOEMAKE

    Hazardous Weather Outlook

    HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK
    NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ALBUQUERQUE NM
    549 AM MST THU NOV 14 2013

    NMZ501>540-151300-
    NORTHWEST PLATEAU-CHUSKA MOUNTAINS-FAR NORTHWEST HIGHLANDS-
    NORTHWEST HIGHLANDS-WEST CENTRAL PLATEAU-WEST CENTRAL MOUNTAINS-
    WEST CENTRAL HIGHLANDS-SOUTHWEST MOUNTAINS-
    SAN FRANCISCO RIVER VALLEY-SAN JUAN MOUNTAINS-JEMEZ MOUNTAINS-
    WEST SLOPES SANGRE DE CRISTO MOUNTAINS-
    NORTHERN SANGRE DE CRISTO MOUNTAINS ABOVE 9500 FEET/RED RIVER-
    SOUTHERN SANGRE DE CRISTO MOUNTAINS ABOVE 9500 FEET-
    EAST SLOPES SANGRE DE CRISTO MOUNTAINS-UPPER RIO GRANDE VALLEY-
    LOWER CHAMA RIVER VALLEY-SANTA FE METRO AREA-ALBUQUERQUE METRO AREA-
    LOWER RIO GRANDE VALLEY-SANDIA/MANZANO MOUNTAINS-ESTANCIA VALLEY-
    CENTRAL HIGHLANDS-SOUTH CENTRAL HIGHLANDS-UPPER TULAROSA VALLEY-
    SOUTH CENTRAL MOUNTAINS-RATON RIDGE/JOHNSON MESA-
    FAR NORTHEAST HIGHLANDS-NORTHEAST HIGHLANDS-UNION COUNTY-
    HARDING COUNTY-EASTERN SAN MIGUEL COUNTY-GUADALUPE COUNTY-
    QUAY COUNTY-CURRY COUNTY-ROOSEVELT COUNTY-DE BACA COUNTY-
    CHAVES COUNTY PLAINS-EASTERN LINCOLN COUNTY-SOUTHWEST CHAVES COUNTY-
    549 AM MST THU NOV 14 2013

    THIS HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK IS FOR PORTIONS OF NORTH AND CENTRAL
    NEW MEXICO.

    .DAY ONE…TODAY AND TONIGHT

    NO HAZARDOUS WEATHER IS EXPECTED.

    .DAYS TWO THROUGH SEVEN…FRIDAY THROUGH WEDNESDAY

    A PAIR OF DISTURBANCES CROSSING NORTHERN NEW MEXICO FRIDAY AND
    SATURDAY WILL RETURN PRECIPITATION CHANCES TO THE STATE. THE
    COMBINATION OF BOTH DISTURBANCES MAY RESULT IN MODERATE TO PERHAPS
    SIGNIFICANT SNOW ACCUMULATIONS ACROSS THE NORTHERN MOUNTAINS. WEST
    FACING SLOPES ABOVE 9500 FEET WILL LIKELY SEE THE GREATEST
    ACCUMULATIONS.

    IN ADDITION TO THE SNOW…THE STORM SYSTEMS WILL ALSO INCREASE
    WIND SPEEDS SIGNIFICANTLY. WINDS MAY TOP 60 MPH FRIDAY NIGHT INTO
    SATURDAY ALONG THE CENTRAL MOUNTAIN CHAIN AND POINTS JUST EAST.
    GUSTY WINDS WILL ALSO BE POSSIBLE ACROSS THE SOUTHWEST MOUNTAINS.

    WEATHER CAN CHANGE VERY RAPIDLY. ALWAYS USE THE LATEST FORECASTS…

  132. How about needing the flashlight to see the chest , only at night , because that is when it illuminates in the darkness from the light of the flashlight? Hence the “blaze”.

  133. Hi tg how are U…Im floating about reading. yes the weather report will require another semester of schooling ..thanx toby….hmmm?

    • Great post Toby. Tried replying at your site and it throws me offline. Your observation is spot on, I have been saying that treasure comes in all forms for a long time. Nobody listens though, and thats ok! Good work!

  134. In the mid 1920’s Eric Sloane lived for a time in and around Taos. He returned in 1931 and rented a place from the famous Taos artist Leon Gaspard. He also built a home, years later, in Santa Fe. He and his wife Mimi traveled back and forth between their home in New England and their newer home in Santa Fe.

    In the preface to Forrest’s book “Seventeen Dollars a Square Inch” Forrest writes that Eric was a mentor to him. He further writes that the book fulfills a promise Forrest made to Eric, and that Eric made to Forrest.

    Elsewhere in the book there is an illustration by Eric that depicts a two door privy. One door has a moon cutout and the other has a sun cutout. Eric wrote that “The early privy had a crescent (lunar is feminine) and a sun (masculine) to designate men and women.”
    These symbols would have been useful for folks who could not read or write.

    Eric;s painting “Dawn Patrol” is for sale again. It seems to have appeared in many places over the past few years. I don’t understand why it keeps popping up for sale…maybe Forrest knows…

    It’s here:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/ERIC-SLOANE-Original-Oil-Painting-on-Board-Airplanes-Clouds-Signed-/261323165028?pt=Art_Paintings&hash=item3cd8130d64

      • William…If it’s the painting I’m thinking of, with the native American family in the foreground, that’s the Glen Canyon Dam in the background. The water that flows out of that dam is the classic Grand Canyon whitewater excursion. Way too much for my little boat.

      • William…it’s funny how little things come together…when I was shooting the Fenn video at Moby Dickens Book Shop in Taos, the proprietors, grateful for my work, gave me a book. It’s called “The Emerald Mile,” by Kevin Fadarko and tells the story of a group of men who made the fastest run through the Grand Canyon below Glenn Canyon Dam in 1983 after the largest El Nino on record. I’m about 3/4s of the way through it. Great reading.

    • Toby…
      Not trying to sound like your mom…BUT…
      That guy in the picture isn’t wearing a life jacket…so he must be only in ankle deep water…
      Don’t forget yours…
      Anxious to read about your adventure…

      • Dal…I can assure you that I carry a bag full of the required safety equipment, Including a Class III PFD I always wear. Thanks for the concern, it is appreciated.

        • Dal…it’s a great little craft. I’m really pleased with its performance.

          The “fastest” water was right below the dam, and it did fine. If you mean “rough” water, no, this section of the river has no rapids rater higher than Class I. That’s for a future trip.

          My YouTube friend, HannuYK has had his Kaboats on everything up to Class III-IV. Watching his videos inspired me to take the KaBoat route.

          Check it his YouTube channel, he’s put together some interesting videos.

          http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsZDd4ptZ5mCcSFUEEtUXAg

  135. Sunday at midnight is the end of the shadow contest on this blog. Please look at the contest rules here:
    http://dalneitzel.com/2013/10/20/ladies-only/

    There are several new entries up right now. If you plan on entering the contest your pic and written materials need to be submitted by midnight PST (west coast time zone) on Sunday. Thanks…

    • Fellas and ladies, the clues are in the poem, not the postmarks. Fun to kick around maybe but not productive. Better to be thinking about WWWH with a wide open mind. Just sayin’!

      • I personally dont see anything in them or any coordinates in the book. But that doesnt mean someone else doesnt see them. None of us knows more than anyone else (except Forrest) until the treasure is found. Im just glad we all have the opportunity to participate.

        • Actually you are wrong on that point. Some of us DO know more than others. For example, I know a guy searching in Texas. Some of us actually know for certain that the chest is not in Texas. Just read through the blogs and compare the information you get with the facts that the guy who really knows has stated.
          Get my point now?

          • How do you really know anyone is right? Many people can presume they are right but until they have the treasure in their hands they are as clueless as anyone else.

            How do you know you know more than anyone else?

          • Well I thought I made that clear. For example, I know more than the guy looking in Texas, or in Arkansas. I also know than the guys who are hiking 6 miles into the mountains. Oh, and I also know more than the guys diving in the Rio Grande. Do I know enough to have the chest in my posession? No. But I do know more than some searchers!!!

    • Why not also post your thoughts here instead of using Dal’s blog to promote your own with just a link? Dal has already included a link to your blog – you don’t need to promote it with every new post on your blog without contributing the same for discussion here.

      • Toby does talk here also. He talks on my message board chasechat.com also. I post a lot of the new blogs I see on the other sites. We all just sort of put things out there to keep the discussion going on all the sites. It’s all good.

        BTW, as a shameless plug…I fixed chasechat.com for anyone who hasn’t been able to access it with their phones. It should work for you now. I think Mark had that problem. Dollarbill do you use a phone to connect with?

        • I hear you Stephanie – just seems to be abused a bit by Toby. I see no shame in your plugs and your contributions are unquestionable. I suppose if Dal doesn’t have a problem with it, then I shouldn’t. 🙂

        • I wondered what changed. I use an android tablet and could never access it. Thank you Stephanie. Lots of good info there.

          • This French guy helped me figure out what was wrong. There was a conflict with a plugin I had. I didn’t know that’s why you never went there. Cool it’s working for you. We talk a lot on there all day and night.

        • PTN, I still live in the late 20th century. Only a land line, 3 useless cell phones, and a laptop. I should put the cell phones up for auction on dal’s blog, but I am not willing to pay for someone to take them off of my hands.

      • Bell Ringer…first, I’m not “promoting” anything. I don’t need to. My blog is not my living and it get’s 95% of its views from the videos I post on YouTube. It’s just easier to post it once, and put the link in other locations.

        Dal and Stephanie have never complained to me about abusing the privilege. If they were to tell me they were offended by it, I would stop.

        By the same token, I promise not to post anything on the websites you maintain without your permission.

        I contribute to this, other blogs and other forums, independent of my effort on A Gypsy’s Kiss. I only post when I think I can contribute to the conversation, and avoid argument for the sake of argument.

        Good luck in your search.

    • Hi Toby,
      I think it’s interesting, I’ve looked into it myself and have got the correct dates, just not sure how to proceed with them. I also think where warm waters halt is where the lies stop…I’m thinking that it’s like a jigsaw puzzle put together all wrong, just have to rearrange the pieces…a resolve like it says on the inside cover of Thrill of the chase. Of course, where the lie stops could also be where you stand…I’m neck deep right now and just trying to keep from drowning!

      • Michelle, I think your metaphor of the jigsaw puzzle is very insightful and inventive. Like you, I often feel like I have all the pieces, I just can’t quite get them correctly arranged.

        I’m not sure I understand the anology you make between WWWH and “where the lies stop.”

        How much more can you say about it without giving any of your own secrets away?

        • Maggie has it right, its an old indian proverb that states “listening to a liar is like drinking warm water”. Since thrill of the chase is full of “lies”, misquotes and skewed info…I’m thinking that once we get everything straight we’ll have the solution. Dates are wrong, quotes are misquoted, words are misspelled, etc…it’s no secret, I have no problem posting my attempts to solve. Also looking at other books because treasure in latin is thesaurus and quotes used are traced back to several people who have proposed new english alphabet, Samuel Clemens and Ben Franklin…”my treasures bold” may refer to Fenns’ words…

          • Michelle…it seems you have some unique and intriguing insights on the chase. I wish you and your significant other the best of luck. Let me know if you find yourselves in New Mexico.

          • Hi Michelle,
            I was just passing on info that I found on another site. I was not trying to imply that the TTOC is full of lies. Forrest said he likes to embellish and admitted that he averages out the truth.

          • I like the word embellish or conflicting or errors. I think lies implies malice and I’m sure there is no malice intended what so ever.

        • Maggie,
          No disrespect intended! Just commenting on another angle…obvious and intentional untruths, embellishments…whatever you want to call them, and their possible meanings. Could just be a way to make his story more interesting but he has such an interesting life that I don’t think those sorts of embellishments were necessary just for the sake of the story so looking at other possibilities.

        • Hey Toby,
          We’ve been in NM several times, love it and have other places there that we want to explore, not in regards to the treasure really, just interesting places and history, but have to wait for weather to straighten up, though have to say, if I thought I knew where it was, I wouldn’t let the snow and cold stop me…I’ve done it before! Forrest might end up having to share his secret spot with my bones if I do happen upon it! Patience and prudence are not qualities that I possess, lol!

  136. Toby,
    I read something along those lines also. I think it was on the mysterious writing blog, by Jenny Kile. If I remember correctly, it was an old indian saying (Listening to lies is like drinking warm water). But don’t take my word for it, my mind is all over the place.

  137. I welcome all Dal’s/Toby’s/Stephanie’s/Mike’s contributions on whatever site they are offered, and thank them all for their thoughtful, articulate and organized comments. Blog-jumping is tedious.
    I’m just catching up on the Nov. comments and want to offer a thought … Since the WWWH DESIGNATION is specific to NM, I wonder if where the DESIGNATION HALTS is the clue, and not one one of the many WWWH places within the state. The WWWH DESIGNATION begins & halts at the NM-CO border. Thoughts???

    • It also has a southern border within NM. Check the map.
      BUT I don’t think the WWWH clue is what you think it is.
      I have worked that angle to death.

    • Because I believe the reference to warm waters is associated with the NM G&F Department’s definition, you’re right, warm waters halt at the border in situations where designated trout waters begin. The most obvious instance of that is the Rio Grande, on which designated trout waters begin at the Colorado River and end at the Taos Junction bridge.

      • The problem with that thinking is that it does not lead to any one specific spot as f says it will if you solve it correctly. To ambiguous.

      • Toby, the NM 2011/2012 fishing regs designate trout waters as those blue areas shaded in on a map on page 4. These regs were applicable closer to when TTOTC started.

        The newer 2013/2014 regs has a somewhat different map distinguishing trout water areas from designated trout waters on page 21.

        Both documents define warm waters as all waters not designated as trout waters.

        Relying on the regs to define WWWH could be a huge mistake. I am not saying you are wrong, but I am suggesting that the fishing regs theory for WWWH be investigated a little more before planning any search.

  138. Apparently my spiked eggnog is messing with me because what eggzactly I thought I said is …. WWWH (the poem clue) may be a language line, not a water-line across a river. There may not be any water where WWWH. The many designated wet “warm waters” in NM wiggle within the irregular outlines of the Rocky Mts. But on the North side is a specific straight line, the CO Border. The kind of a line you can really “begin” at.
    And Phil sez there is also a southern border for the designation! I didn’t know that. Is it north or south of Santa Fe? Is it a specific straight line like the CO border, an altitude line, a public lands border? What map? I’ll wait, I’ve more eggnog and a Kentucky friend.

  139. Added a new area of the blog today. SEARCHER OF THE MONTH. Forrest wrote the first piece. It’s called Salute to a Warrior..and it’s a wonderful story about a determined lady and her significant search..

    You can find it by going to the tippy-top of the page and looking for the “Searcher of the Month” tab under the header photo…

  140. HI all;I was wondering if Iam the only person who has looked at the Random mts,Baldy mountain and Turkey mountains

  141. Hey Dal, I been hanging out over @ chasechat, a good bunch of people.
    Although just a heads up, don’t feed the crazys, they just keep going on and on lol!
    I’m happy to be back thanks buddy. 😉
    I’m officially on the NM wagon.

    Always,
    A_The_A

  142. Forrest has read the poem out loud at the book signing, listen to his words and style from there he will give you the 9 clues

    • I know, that’s my recording of the event on YouTube, and I’ll bet I have spent more time with it than most.

      I’ve published my thinking on the nine clues. I’d have a better sense of how good, or not, your advice is if you’d publish yours.

      Otherwise, I like my thinking better than anyone else’s who hasn’t found the treasure either.

      Good luck in your search.

      t.

  143. I think it’s real good Toby I just think just heavy loads and water high is together The first clue can be like this also. Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down. All together that’s how forrest tends to read it all the time. But who knows haha

  144. Here’s mine.

    1.BEGIN IT WHERE WARM WATERS HALT AND TAKE IT IN THE CANYON DOWN,

    2.NOT FAR BUT TOO FAR TOO WALK,

    3.PUT IN BELOW THE HOME OF BROWN,

    4.FROM THERE IT’S NO PLACE FOR THE MEEK,

    5.THE END IS EVER DRAWING NIGH,

    6.THERE WILL BE NO PADDLE UP YOUR CREEK

    7.JUST HEAVYLOADS AND WATER HIGH,

    8.IF YOU’VE BEEN WISE AND FOUND THE BLAZE,

    9.LOOK QUICKLY DOWN YOUR QUEST TO CEASE,

    But not only the 9 clues are clues as all lines are important as they will confirm your area that’s my guess.

    • Interesting take. How do you explain seemingly two clues in the first line? Looks like they were packed in there so you could squeeze “Look quickly down…etc.” which sounds to me like instruction rather than a clue.

      Bottom line: based on what you wrote above, I think if you and I both start at the same place, and follow what each of us think are the clues, we’ll end up in the same place.

      Not necessarily where the treasure is. But, the same place nonetheless.

      t.

      • Ya I think we would Toby The first 2 I put together and not far but too far too walk is 2nd clue those are the clues I think they have got right. The 3rd clue which I think is Home of Brown that’s where the went right past not knowing it was the 3rd clue that’s why they have only gotten the first 2 clues. I don’t see if not far but too far to walk was clue 3 then how could someone pass that he’s kinda saying go down but not too far just far to walk I guess you can pass that clue too there’s just so much ways of interpreting the poem

        • I think the searchers lost it getting to HOB . I have a solution that has WWWH as a precise perfect fit and the next step, TIITCD, but without knowing “precisely” how far “not far, but too far to walk” is, it would be very easy to go past the following clues.

          I think his introduction stating “if followed precisely” is a key. There has to be precision in our solutions to each clue. If we can’t find the precision of the solution in the poem, we haven’t a chance.

          I think he mentioned in the new book, (which I don’t have so I could be wrong about the source), something about 10 miles being too far to walk. But he’s talking about now… that he can’t walk it. Not that he could never walk it.

          I hold on to the idea that no distance is too far to walk, therefore I think the precise solution is not a distance, but a different means, other than walking, of accomplishing what is needed to get to the solution.

          People comment about the different levels of meaning within the poem. What if the distance or “depth” referred to in “not far” is the depth of meaning. A person cannot walk there., so it is “too far to walk”. but “not far” because it’s right in front of us, in the poem.

          I can’t think of any other way to apply “precisely” to “not far, but too far to walk” other than to get away from thinking it’s a form of transportation.

          jdh

          • In the last two paragraphs of the Preface of TFTW, Fenn wrote

            1. “The river distance was about ten miles.” Referring to a fishing trip on the Madison he had undertaken when he was a teenager.

            2. Then, “…I promised myself that someday I would make the trip again.”

            3. And then, with a regretful nod to not having done it, “For me now, it’s just too far to walk.”

          • Here’s the key to that:
            Remember he parked his vehicle somewhere and walked the treasure to its location in two trips. Then he walked back to his car and drove away. This is a huge clue about location that probably eliminates 98% of the rocky mountain search area. Consider also that it is VERY LIKELY not on tribal lands or private property – another huge chunk of real estate eliminated.
            Besides all that the clue WWWH is only one unmistakable location that f says you’ll find with no guess work involved if you solve that clue. If you’ll stop thinking about ambiguous locations that could fit many places – like dams, hot springs, lakes, etc – you can eliminate another ton of possible search locations that many searchers seem bent on investigating.
            Oh, and if you’ll just concentrate on NM (where I am convinced the location is) there is another big, big chunk of the rockies eliminated.

          • Phillip,

            Thanks for the insight to your hunting process but instead of eliminating all the places people who have not found it think it can’t be, and concentrating on where you’re convinced it is, I think I’ll let the poem tell me where it is.

            I agree that WWWH is only one unmistakeable location, but the poem hasn’t mentioned New Mexico to me… yet. Then again, maybe I’m not looking deeply enough.

            jdh

          • Hi Toby,

            My sentimental side is showing but perhaps Forrest is alluding to the premise that the trip is not one that can be taken more than once, you can’t go home again. Time and experience change perspectives in ways that can’t be measured in distance. In the wise words of Disneys’ Pocahontas…you never step into the same river twice.

          • Waterhigh,

            Nice, but I think you missed my sarcasm…was dumbing down quote and crediting different source. Sound familiar?

  145. Hi there. Has anyone considered Agua Fria lake as the point at which Warm waters halt? I haven’t figured anything out from there but it seems like a good starting point.

    • Yes. I’ve been out there several times. It’s a tempting sounding location..as is Aqua Fria Peak and Aqua Fria Creek and the community of Aqua Fria. The problem, of course, is what next. If you think of the poem as a map and the sentences as directions…what happens next..If you start, for instance, at Aqua Fria Lake, where is the canyon down? If you go west from the lake on Aqua Fria Creek you head down toward Angel Fire but there is nothing that resembles a canyon in that direction for several miles. If you head the other direction on Aqua Fria Creek you get into the Philmont Scout Ranch and could either head down the eastern front of the mountains or over to the Cimarron River..there are canyons there but the “poem” as a map falls apart quickly..

      • Dal,

        That is odd, I can get it to work pretty well, I just wonder why that would be a good warm water halt? Many clues point there but I struggle with a couple to make it perfect.

        The Wolf

        • Wolf-
          I think the general thought about Agua Fria is:
          Agua Fria means cold water.
          Warm water that flows into agua fria is no longer warm. It’s fria. Therefore warm water halts when it enters agua fria.
          The same for Aqua Fria Creek..and an argument could be made for Agua Fria Peak and even the community of Agua Fria
          I didn’t say there weren’t any places around there that worked..
          I said for me, there was no “canyon down” after agua fria that made sense..
          I agree that there are plenty of places in the Moreno (brown) Valley and the nearby Cimarron and around Arroyo Seco and even some places on the side of Wheeler Peak where the clues could line up..
          My difficulty was using Agua Fria as clue #1..then trying to find a canyon down that worked..
          But in truth..I have moved on from that area. It is a region where many people have looked…but none have found..

          • Ok that helps explain the cold water vs warm water angle. Very interesting – I think this actually has some merit but not quite as strong as I would like. There are some very interesting clues that lead to the east. Still needs refinement.

            The Wolf

      • Thanks for your reply Dal! One thing I thought about Agua Fria lake is that if you go down kind of through a canyon, there is a half dried up lake, that sits below what appears to be a moosehead (HOB?)! The moosehead is made by the treeline. But I think it’s just my imagination because like you I can’t figure out where to go from here..Also I was thinking that the blaze might be Angel fire but there are a lot of condos built up now, so I don’t think it would be in the condos..

  146. ff: “For me now, it’s just too far to walk.”

    Forrest explained that’s the origin of the book title, but of course the phrase had another life before that. Perhaps he could have named the new book “where warm waters halt” instead.

    Do you presume that Forrest is offering a solution to a clue in his preface?

    Halogetter

    • Halo-
      I realize you were not asking for my opinion…but when has that ever stopped me?
      Forrest did say that there is an “unintended clue” some where in that book. I suppose we can debate for years about the term “unintended” and what it means..
      But clearly…there is a clue somewhere in that book..
      It could be in the preface…couldn’t it?

      • I’m pretty sure in his last conference he said the unintended clue was that Canada was left off the map.

        His exact words were something like “I’ll tell you what it is” then goes on saying Canada was left out.

        • Yes djj, the Canada map reference about an unintended clue. And Forrest said several things about potential clues/hints in tftw, including:

          “There are no clues in this book (tftw), but there are some hints.”

          “If you read my preface, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out I think what they’re talking about, but…there are clues in my new book that could help a person.”

          Dal- the question I was posing was, to be more specific and following from the quote directly above, do you think that Forrest was giving you a solution to “too far to walk” in mentioning the distance of 10 miles? I don’t believe that is what he was doing.

          Halogetter

          • Somewhat agree but he said no one has guess it yet and that one i would have figured someone would have emailed him that when the book first came out.

          • Halo-
            No, of course not. I talked elsewhere in this blog about exactly how that mileage figure came about..
            it was not his estimate… and it had nothing to do with being a clue to anything..
            That does not mean he didn’t know that some searchers would try to believe it is a clue…
            or that all the talk about the Madison is a clue…

            I also don’t believe that Canada is the unintended clue he has alluded to..
            I am well aware of what he has said about the unintended clue..
            Forrest shared that map with others while it was being designed…and the elimination of Canada was discussed…
            and the consequences…It was not an unintended clue at all..

          • I think Forrest was saying that the treasure is not in Yellowstone.

            As well as meaning that the canyon takes the warm waters down about 12-20 miles or so. (forget what distance he said in the book)

          • But since day one, from the first time I read that poem I had also thought “Not far, but too far to walk” meant to not take any trails.

  147. I remember doing a worksheet when I was In grade school, it was all about following directions. There was a list of about 30 numbered directions, the first one being to print your name at the top, second being to read all directions before starting…the rest being things like draw a shape, cross out lines, circle letters, etc… the very last direction was to disregard all after the 2nd. Not bragging, but was the first to turn in my paper and scored 100 because while everyone else was scribbling away doing things their way, I followed the directions. Try looking at the poem from that worksheet angle and follow directions like a kid. May not be right but it is interesting.

    • Yes, Michelle, that’s a classic exercise in listening and paying attention. So perhaps there are 9 “clues”, but you only really need one…

      But seriously, a good philosophy is to push the overload of clutter in the chase to the back of your mind and meditate on the contiguous clues as given in the “straight forward” poem.

      Halogetter

  148. I like this discussion. This morning I woke up to re-read TFTW with new eyes. Not sure where its going but Im enjoying the journey. 🙂

  149. Might just be near the beginning of a trail. I think simple is that a blaze is to mark a trail…so it’s the beginning of one I’d think.

  150. “When this book was printed I didn’t realize that Benchmark maps made the map stop at Canada” – Forrest’s exact words

    I can understand, from a selling more books perspective, in saying there still is a unintentional clue. But that quote from Forrest pretty much sets it in stone for me.

  151. I am looking for the treasure in New Mexico.

    Just trying to get this page back on track.

    Michelle…we’ve run out of reply layers, so I’m hoping you’ll catch my response down here.

    I think you may be on to something there, Pocahontas.

  152. What forrest said about the clue in TFTW was not the Canada clue. There is another Huge clue forrest is being generous and wants people to find his chest, there are great clues in both books but no one is seeing them. You might say well why haven’t you found it. Well it’s not as easy as it looks ounce you get to the final clues forrest gets wise and its not as easy as look quickly down there more to that line. I’ve only searched this area ounce and gotta say it was jaw dropping wat I saw and was in shock that this can actually be the place of the hidden chest. With the bad weather who knows when ill get another crack at it. I’m not saying that this is the area guarantee but I like this area and I’m sticking to it lol if nothing happends I will be letting everyone know this area so they can try to see if its the right area.

    • J.R.. What do you mena by ” ‘if nothing happends ‘ I will be letting everyone know this area” whatdo you mean?

        • J.R. Where have you been? guessing you didn’t find it, so where was your search area? Your ideas made sense to me!

    • Why can’t you just post what you have to say here instead of redirecting us to your own site. This habit of yours is a bit cheesy to me.
      I have a ff website too but don’t my postings to advertise it

        • Old Shadows,

          Been wondering where you ‘ve been?
          I like cheese too, but it sounds like there may be a bit of cheese envy around here.
          Maybe its gonna be a long Winter.
          Just sayin’.

      • 1. Both Dal and Stephanie having given me permission to post links to my blog on theirs.
        2. In return they get clicks back from my blog to theirs.
        3. It is difficult to post an exact replica of the blog entry as a comment on another blog.
        4. As an option, there is no requirement for anyone to click on the link.

        Happy Holidays!

        • Thanks for posting the link Toby. I have emails sent on the posts from Dal’s site and I prefer reading the posts on your web site instead of getting a big long email.

    • My bad. Dal thinks you are doing just fine. So, please excuse me for being out of line. I’ll mind my own business now.
      Phillip

  153. This is why I think Mr. Fenn hid the treasure in water in New Mexico. There was a drought in 2001, 2002, and I think also in 2003. This would have help him place the chest in water because the water levels would have been real low. Any thoughts?

    • Toby Younis answered my inquiry and said Fenn’s comments are in Tony Dokoupil’s March article of the Daily Beast. The treasure is exposed to elements, and is unlocked.

  154. I did not see anything that suggests Tony Dokoupil has suggested the treasure is exposed to the elements. Anybody has information on this matter?

    • These are the exact words emailed to me from Toby Younis regarding the same question I had regarding the treasure:
      FYI. From Tony Dokoupil’s March Article in the Daily Beast: “But as you frisk and refrisk the poem for its meaning, keep a few more clues in mind: some people have suggested the treasure is under water, plopped in a river where Fenn loved to fish or swim. They are wrong, I know, for in a moment of exuberance, Fenn said so. He told me the chest is “exposed” to rain and snow, and could be scorched in a forest fire. He told me the box, which is just 10 inches by 10 inches, is unlocked—suggesting it’s someplace where it is unlikely to be toppled or otherwise thrown open.”

      • I would be careful taking Tony’s word for it. Forrest has said he got things wrong. Also, we all know how easily it is to interpret things Forrest says in a way which we think we know what he is saying. I’m not saying it’s not correct, but I find it VERY hard to believe he told Tony it’s not in water. I believe he said it’s open to the elements…water is an element.

  155. I found the article. It says Forrest Fenn told Tony Dokupil the treasure chest is “exposed” . Maybe Tony interpretation is misleading. Again, I do not believe anything until I can prove Mr. Fenn exact words. “Exposed” can mean different things.

    • Not that I think it’s in the water, but, honestly, what difference does it make? Fact: The treasure chest is where it is. Opinion: It’s a waste of time to search for the treasure chest.

      • I know my chances of finding the treasure chest are about as good as my chances of winning the lottery but I still like to bet a few dollars on the slim chance that I could win. You can’t win if you don’t play. 🙂

        Besides, if we think like f that the “thrill is in the chase”, we have already won something – if nothing else, the fun of being out in the beautiful outdoors and going on an interesting and exciting adventure. I’ve learned so much from this treasure hunt and from reading some of Forrest’s emails are any indication, many others seem to feel the same.

        • I disagree cause your chances of finding the treasure is up to you cause your only playing your self. Get the clues right walk up to the chest

          • You’re right William – my chances are much better than winning the lottery since I think I have a good solution to the poem! I won’t know for sure though until spring after the snow melts! 🙂

  156. Here’s an observational tid-bit I don’t know what to do with, but maybe it will fit into someone elses clues matrix: In TTOTC, Imp Lit opens with a full pg photo of FF signing books at the turquoise mine. Turquoise isnt mentioned again until Gold & More when FF describes a bracelet he loved that he put in the trove but would like to recover. That didn’t ring a clueish bell to me, until TFTW. On one of the opening pages, a blank wordless page, there is a colorful photo in the lower right corner of a mosaic turquoise belt buckle.
    Turquoise (the word) stems from Turkey (the country) being one of the silk-road riches coming from the east with all those spices. Then there’s that Kismet pick-pocket-Caliph-dirt thing, plus turquoise is frequent in Egyptian jewelry and I wonder, is turquoise a subtle hint , or just an artful device?

    • Just an observation to add to your observation Shadows-
      That belt buckle you refer to is the same one Forrest wears regularly.Every picture I have seen of him for the past ten or more years that shows his belt buckle shows that exact one.

    • This from Forrest on his buckle-
      The buckle was made by Evili, a Moroccan who lived with Charles Loloma, the most famous and best of all Hopi jewelers. I handled her work and when she brought the buckle in I bought it and started wearing it. That was about1974.

  157. Wow, that was quick. And helpful. It is an unusual & beautiful object and now a kind of signature statement. I thought it kind of curious since I noticed no other mention of turquoise in TFTW. Thanks Dal.

    • Did I? I read the book once and packed it away, so I could be wrong. Can you elaborate?… Turquoise isn’t in my brown bag of useful knowledge unless some other placement of it turns up. Thanks Deb.

      • Pages 151 and 153, a necklace and another belt buckle. Its in the story about the guy he bailed out of jail.

    • Thanks so much for posting these videos Toby! Most of us will never be able to make it to Santa Fe for these special events so your time and effort to produce these are greatly appreciated!

  158. Is cadis spelled with 1 d (pg 125) an accepted alternate spelling? My research always shows double d’s. Hmmm… accident or meaningful confirmation of that d-less knowldge (pg 139)?

  159. Caddis is spelled with two d’s. I have no idea if they are related. I do know that knowlege is an actual word. Havent researched cadis, until now. 🙂

  160. It may just be an archaic spelling, Maybe in the Flywater book?
    Little things can be so important… a horseshoe length, a Roman numeral, a missing letter, an intitial, school grades, a musical note, a subtle hint … duh.

    • Hi Old Shadows,
      If its not to much to ask what does knowlege, mean? Ill give you this in return the missing d is actually a 9. I have a picture of it if you want to see it. Your way of cyphering the clues just rattels my brain. I haven’t read the book, but it must have a lot of details about the poem in it. I would almost have to say that I believe that if you were able to be out in the woods like the rest of us you would be leaving your grandchild a chest full of gold instead of some very crafty footnotes and a couple of overpriced books. love reading your comments.

  161. To all,

    Has anyone searched Cabresto Lake? It is fed by warm water springs and is at a high elevation = water high.

    I have not heard talk of this place on any of the blogs.

  162. Another little observation someone may find useful… In My War For Me, the Philadelphia/thumb thing happened on July 13 ( pg 96), and, July 13 is the postmark on Totem Caper (pg 47). Checking Today In History for July 13, there are three events that may have some context … in 1787 the NW Ordinance, in 1798 a Wadsworth poem, in 1954 Vietnam divided. May be nothing at all, a mere interesting coincidence and winter night reading. The poem works for me.

  163. Survey of the Fenn Treasure Search Community

    This is an informal survey of the members of the community searching for the treasure chest Fenn hid someplace in the mountains North of Santa Fe. No personal information is recorded or saved. This survey will be active through February 15, 2014 at which time the results will be published in their entirety.

    Thank you for taking the survey.

    http://agypsyskiss.wordpress.com/latest-poll/

  164. Dal, this is a long shot question, but does Forrest own or have access to a Red older Pickup ? I know you mentioned or alluded to a Red Pickup in tour writings but does Mr. Fenn have access to one?
    I was out exploring in New Mexico last summer and could have sworn that I saw a gentleman that looked like Mr Fenn coming down a difficult back canyon road. This was late on the day and it seemed peculiar to me that the man was driving down a road where there were no ranches nor homes at the end of the road or along the road.

    Thank you

    • Chuy-

      Neither his jeep nor Peggy’s car are red and neither has a pick-up…
      Their grandson Shiloh lives in a guesthouse on the property..
      Shiloh’s vehicle is an older pick-up. I am trying to remember the color…it may have been red. I cannot recall…

      But, in my opinion, it would be very odd for Forrest to be driving Shiloh’s truck.
      He doesn’t borrow other people’s vehicles…

      • Thank you Dal, IT seemed so odd that an older gentleman would be driving down a hard dirt road following a canyon at about 5PM in the afternoon. I was coming up the road after hiking for about 5 hours.
        At first glance I did not think much about it but afterwards I thought the man sure looked like Mr. Fenn and elderly fellow.
        We just did the traditional salutation and he kept driving the old pickup down the road. The truck looked like a late – 70ish red Chevrolet pickup.

        I know shame on me for not striking a conversation. He was moving at 5 MPH.

        Once again thank you so much..

        • That would be really neat if it was Forrest and you had the chance to speak to him on a dusty old road in a canyon ! Thanks for sharing and good luck…

          • ken, I am thinking that it may be wishful thinking. I was tired coming up the canyon road and as noted I didn’t think to chat with the gentleman. This canyon has been one of my favorite areas to look for the gold since the poem’s clues starts to make a reasonable amount of sense. I wish you all the best as well.. I’ll try again this coming Spring…

            Take Care

  165. Podcast Interview?

    My subject for my weekly podcast interview has come down with a serious case of the flu. My backup is on vacation until the 21st.

    If you’d like to be interviewed by phone today for tomorrow’s podcast, please send an email to tyounis at gmail dot com.

    You can find a sample podcast here: http://agypsyskiss.wordpress.com/2014/01/13/a-gypsys-kiss-the-podcast-episode-002-dal-neitzel/

    and, the list of questions, here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aZkt-X9yGR2ADoCYBfCIdyYyNuAeAbGh3f-eETf9xZI/edit

    Thank you!

    • if your searching in Montana. Why are you posting this in Lookin in NM. It is an awesome read though. Awesome job interpreting the clues. You had me going good until the blaze clue. I did the same thing on my search. except when I tried to take a shortcut to the waterfall. I over shot it by about a mile and a half. As I sat and scratched my head and stared in the direction of the waterfall, I noticed I was sitting almost directly underneath the blaze. And I have to say the blaze is an awesome sight to see. And awesome is an understatement. You’ll know it when yousee it. Richard does an awesome job explaining its marvel on his blog A Mountain Walk. He really has a way of explaining things and yet leading you astray at the same time. Also be very carefull trying to swim under those waterfalls, if the water current is going fast enough you could get trapped under, almost like getting caught in a riptide in the ocean. but with a constant wave crashing down on you. If you must swim under tie yourself of to a rope and have your partner pull you out if your underwater over a minute. We used to do this when we were kids. Bet we were noodeling for giant sized German Browns. lol

  166. Evening everyone. Have a question for Dal Stephanie anyone. I would like to take the train ride on the cumbres and toltec has anyone done this and did you go the whole route? Sounds like a great way to see the scenery and get some great pictures and relax.

    • My husband and son took the first half once, then took the second half once and once they just drove back there. They do have a road that goes back to the kitchen(it’s filled with potholes though and you would need something like a truck or jeep. They were there because it was part of our solution…I did a great deal of research by using their youtube channel which you can find here.

      http://www.youtube.com/user/CumbresToltec

      If you take it and go on the outside car…you should have sunglasses as I’ve heard the embers will fly at you. This is the same train line that was in the Indiana Jones movie and it starts at the home in Antinito where the young Indiana Jones grew up in. I believe that might be a Bed and Breakfast now.

      Have fun. They brought back some amazing photos.

      • Thanks everyone. Sometimes things look better on their web site than it actually is. I was looking for an activity to take a break from the chase and just kick back and relax. With limited time I wanted to be sure to pick something that is worth the time and money.

        • The more amazing scenery is between Osier and Antonito, but Chama to Osier and back is still fun and worth it. Spring for the parlor car if you can. 🙂

        • Side trips and sight seeing ! That has been on my agenda… Makes the trip worth the effort…Beautiful scenery and a history lesson all wrapped in one sweet package. Happy Hunting everyone…

  167. TG –

    I have taken that train and it is well worth it. It stops for a very good lunch in the town of Osier, which is only accessible from the train – no roads there. After they take you on really nice busses back to where you started – either Antonito or Chama. gorgeous scenery and like stepping back in time to the 1800’s. If you sit in the outside car – plan to get soot from the engine – we didn’t do that.

  168. An injury doesn’t allow me to join in the chase so I won’t be going, but I enjoy puzzles and came up with a location. If you read the clues and do a bit of research you may or may not agree. Creele Colorado is the home of Brown and as the Rio leaves the Rockies it gets to warm for Brown Trout. After entering NM and the Rio Gorge the river cools enough that trout are again present. At La Junta point exists a trail (blaze) called Rios Bravos. Good Luck!

  169. The last post for NM was on 2/4/14. Either it is too cold for searching in NM or I’m the last hold out in the NM camp. It is like all have given up on the NM angle.

    I’m betting the chest will be found in NM. Somewhere near Taos.

    Hopefully this Spring will be another chance for a trip out West.

    I believe 91 miles is part of the solve.

  170. NM is the only place for me and that’s a sound bet you made. Don’t give up on NM, somewhere near Taos. The number 12 has meaning for me in my solve.

    • cloudcover1,

      The numbers for me are 4, 2 and 10 to 12. They were culled from info given to me by an individual who has great knowledge of my search area. All I did was ask a question and the individual started spilling out facts about my search area.
      These facts helped me to have great confidence with my choice of the search area. The facts, present and historical, of an area go a long way to help in ones search.
      This person was not in the search but was just being helpful in answering my questions. I did not advise why I was wanting the info.
      Also, I believe the chest is close in distance to Forrest (and John Paul). The Taos region makes sense for me and my solve.
      Keep at it. Spring is just around the corner