516 thoughts on “The Book…

  1. I just went on the Collected Works web site and for the 1st time it did not say the book was back-ordered! it not says “subject to availability”. My order is still “Pending” so it hasn’t been shipped but at least it looks like the book will be mailed out this week. YEAH!

    • I was so excited to get my book. I went down and checked the mailbox on Sunday. My brain fart, that is a true story. Its a great adventure and I just started this, but its a blast. Have fun when you get your book J B

  2. OK – forget what I just said. 🙁 Collected Works changed their home page and stuck in a slide show instead of the notice that Forrest’s book was back-ordered. If you wait long enough on their home page after 3-4 pictures, the notice comes up again about the book being back-ordered. Dang! 🙁

  3. Well as far as the post stamps go (u will see when u get the book) are meaningless for the most part. The years do not match the month and day in them stamps he made. They only correspond to his age at the time in the stories. Most of em but not all, there are 2 stamps that have what looks like a bat in the overlapping year. Still, 2 more stamps have a light bulb in the year place and a few more seem to be nothing at all. Ive gone over this for 2 years and still don’t really know.

  4. This just in from Forrest-
    Dal, I’m getting lots of email from people that say someone claims to have found the treasure. Can you assure them that 14 different men have made bogus claims to have found the treasure but no one has. f

  5. collected works just sent me a message saying the books will be shipped from the bindery starting march 26,,,yeeehaaww

  6. hey cjinca my order # is 4475 …I just happened to email them and they replied that they were being shipped directly from the bindery on the 26 ….im thinking there will be a mass mailing starting tues morning….I cant wait….good luck..

  7. When someone writes a memoir and on page 14, specifically says non-fiction only needs to be 85% correct how can the reader know what is to be taken as factual? Given that there are things written in the book that are just not true and it can easily be proven so, it should be classified as fiction.

    • Bill did it ever occur to you that maybe Forrest was talking about what someone else had written, possibly about Forrest? Think…

  8. What if I were to say I found where the treasure was hidden according to Fenn’s poem, but it wasn’t there? Would anyone ever believe that it had been found / taken unless the person who had taken it from its resting spot came forward? Fenn did say that the poem gave exact coordinates to its location.

    • Forrest said that 14 people last week claimed to have found it but none really did. He say’s it’s still where he put it. I know for a fact that some people feel they found it because the clues in the poem take them directly to a specific spot. They can’t believe their spot is incorrect so they figure someone got there before them and took the treasure.

      Forrest is not going to tell anyone if their spot is right or wrong. One fellow on this blog believed he had the right spot because when he told Forrest he had found the chest Forrest asked him to bring the bracelet to him. Of course the fellow did not have the treasure so he couldn’t do that. Instead he decided that Forrest was telling him he was in the correct spot by asking for the bracelet back. Then he was all over the web claiming the treasure had been found before he got to it. He was very annoying. According to Forrest it’s still there…waiting for you…or better yet me, to find it…ha!

      There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where you can end up by following the clues in various ways. I have been to 28 or 29 different places where the every clue in the poem led me. The treasure was not at any of them. I did not assume someone else found it. I understood that I was in the wrong place and went on looking. This is not simple. If it was simple I would have found it over two years ago because I a very simple person.

      • Dal,
        You are absolutely correct. To add even more complexity to it, one of your 28 or 29 places you searched may have been the right place. You may be one of the people who Forrest says searched within 500 feet of the treasure! You or any of us. We could be in the right place but searching in he wrong way. That is what makes this such a fun challenge.

    • Shhh,

      you wrote: “Fenn did say that the poem gave exact coordinates to its location.” Is that true?

      I know he said the poem alone will lead you right (I think he said “right”) to the chest, but did he actually say that it gave “exact coordinates”? Please elaborate.

      I think that in order for the poem alone to lead us to the chest, it has to in some way provide a name or names of locations. Otherwise a map is required to even find a warm water source. If no map is required than the name of the water source is provided somehow in the poem. We get the names of some lakes and fishing holes from the book, but were not supposed to need the book, so the names have to come from the poem SOMEHOW. Maybe “exact coordinates” is the answer.

      I find it amazing that supposedly by the poem alone, we will be able to confidently walk right up to the spot, and pick up the chest.

      but I believe him,

      jd

      • I believe him too. I have a theory, that our lower brain leads us to a spot and when we get there, our upper brain takes over and leads us away. James

        • James,

          Interesting… did this idea come from “Look quickly down, you’re quest to cease”? Looking down from your upper brain?

          jdh

      • JD, in my opinion, the poem gives clues that IF FOLLOWED PRECISELY, will lead a searcher to the
        treasure. (This is what it says in TTOTC.) In order to follow the clues precisely, a searcher will need other things, of course! Like a vehicle, a map (or other
        people who can give directions), etc. So don’t be reluctant to do research outside the poem, okay?

        I assume you’re already doing some, by referring to
        a dictionary or thesaurus. I did, and I think it helped.

        The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

        Good luck. Please be safe.

  9. Has anyone received shipping confirmation from Collected Works yet? I just checked my status and it still says “Pending”. Thanks!

    • Nice! I was just about to ask if anyone had any updates/shipped order notification as I’m getting rather antsy & can’t wait to get my hands on the book. Thanks for the info dazed.

    • Clinger, do you know what your order number was? Mine is still pending and I ordered 4 weeks ago – my number is 4138.

    • Clinger, would you care to give us any kind of “hint” as to what
      piece of valuable info you gleaned after reading the book?
      I’m not asking what the info specifically was.

      I read the book also, and I believe I gleaned a piece of valuable
      info from doing so. Here’s a hint regarding that piece of valuable
      info: It’s a word that I believe is QUITE key to a correct solve,
      and that word is not part of the poem.

      Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe.

  10. I ordered mine through Collected Works Amazon store on Mar 1. Since I didn’t order directly from their website, I don’t have a four digit number that others have been posting. Sorry. Sounds like you ordered around the same time, so I would expect it any day. I did notice that it shipped directly from the printer, not their location in Sante Fe.

    • Thanks for the reply. I think I’ll just give them a call and see if they know when the rest will be shipped out from the printers.

      • Just called Collected Works and they said the books were being shipped out by order number. The backorders started at about 1400 and I’m at 4138. 🙁

        Would the people who have received their orders please post their order numbers to help give me an idea of when I might receive mine? I’m going on a little vacation shortly and was hoping to have the book to take along.

      • Nuts. My order is somewhere in the low 5000s,..so I’m guessing if the backorders went that far back I probably won’t have my book for vacation on may 2nd 🙁 poopoo.

        • Jenna, they are mailing out 400-500 a day so don’t despair – yours could still be mailed out before the end of the week!

      • CJ – thanks for that info! Even if it doesn’t get mailed out until later in the month, that gives me hope that I’ll have it before we hit the road. Woohoo!

  11. So after reading the book, I pulled a few “hints” out of it. I wouldn’t call them clues, but one does answer a question/topic that has been debated on here quite a bit. I realize it’s difficult to use the word definitive in regard to any of Forrest’s hints or clues, but I feel 100% on these two.

    After discovering these, it prompted me to wonder if anyone else has found hints/clues in the book that they feel are 100%+ legitimate. I’m not asking for any details about your hints, just if you have found one and your comfort level with it….page number, paragraph, & sentence optional. lol 🙂

    I have found two hints.
    Hint1 – 100% sure it is in fact a hint from Forrest, not a random thought. I can connect it to the poem…but not a slam dunk. It connects geographically in many places in the Rockies & I feel very certain that this is a very important hint, I just don’t know how yet.

    Hint2 – 99.9% sure its a hint, 100% ties to the poem, answers a long debated question about the poem, Can’t tie it to any of my search areas. Sadly, I don’t think it’s a very useful piece of knowledge, or at least I don’t find it to be currently.

    Anyhow, I would like to hear what others think. Surely, I can’t be the only one has found a few hints in the book.

    • clinger, i read it last night and unfortunately nothing jumped out at me… i’ll have to read it again with a keener eye.. one thing that did strike me though, is his love for skippy.. maybe something hidden within the tales of there past?? idk.. care to hint a little about what you perceived as clues? 🙂

      • I get the same feeling about Skippy, but haven’t found anything definitive yet. I also have a feeling about the two old biddies, but again, no solid connection. My favorite story is that of the school kids in his gallery that he allowed to touch everything & what they learned from Forrest. You might read that one again & see what Forrest teaches. 🙂

      • thanks clinger, will do.. ive read a few chapters over again but no ah ha moments.. right now the only things sticking out in my mind regarding possible hints are the taos mountains,(because of olga), and his “church”, being the mountains and river bottoms..

    • Thanks for the response! Collected Works said the printers mail out 400-500 copies a day so I’m hoping it will be mailed out tomorrow after seeing your order number. 🙂

    • I’m 4417 and the hadn’t sent it yet as of today at supper time.
      But they did say they were shipping numerically.

  12. Yeah! My book, order #4138, says “completed”! I don’t know how long it will take to get here but I’m sure it will make it before I leave for my vaca in 2 weeks!

  13. order #3709. Still haven’t received it. They may be shipped from east coast as some there have received that ordered after me. I’ve been charged for it so it must be “in the mail”.

    I’ve heard that before,

    jd

    • Hi, JD. I know what ya mean. When our fellow bloggers reference certain passages in the book, I’m lost. I heard an interview of FF where it was said that 15,000 copies were being shipped this week. It would be interesting to know the total # of copies sold. We are a whole new species – Fenn-ites or Fenn-ers or Fenn-ians. We speak the language of the poem & recognize each other by our possession of the book. We need a secret handshake & greeting so that only we can identify each other. Eventually we will be shunned everywhere as “one of those crazy Fenn people”. I already am, & I too have yet to receive my copy. I want it NOW!!!

      • Hi Becky,

        To keep the “Fenner” name clean I promise to not dig a hole, to pick up at least one piece of someone else’s trash (and not leave any myself, but that’s a gimme) each time I go searching, to return to it’s former place every rock, log or tree branch I turn over “to see what’s under it” and not do anything foolish on the trail.

        That seems like a pretty good start to a creed, but you’ll have to figure out a handshake, and please don’t make it a “pinkie shake”.

        good luck in your search

        jd

      • Shooooot, fire & brimstone! Us’ns is tough, rugged FF treasure hunters who will not flinch at the sight of a grizzly or pack of rattlesnakes. Hey, I want one of those bigggggg cowboy hats, & a bullwhip too. Yeah! Look out everybody – Here come’s Indiana Beck!

        JD – that is the best creed EVER! I would solemnly raise my left hand, place my right hand on the book, & take the oath. But all I can swear to at this time is that someone better get me that book! I will definitely come up with an appropriate handshake. You work on the nametags.

        Hey, where are you? Close to me?

      • Indie Becky,

        I’m in Washington state, south of Seattle.
        I believe a 10 gallon hat would do you well. (Fred W is in Texas. He could verify. We don’t wear them up here.) You could probably hide the treasure under it as you walked out and a bull whip would do well to keep the feds away.

        Don’t be in too much of a hurry to get out looking. Make sure your spot is “spot on” to all 9 clues if you can. No need to waste a trip. Nobody has found it on their first trip yet… or second… or third.

        But who knows… you could be the one.

        jd

      • Becky, what you said has just tickled my funnybone in a
        big way tonight (8-15-16), even though you posted the
        message more than 2 years ago! I’d like to e-mail to you
        an explanation for this “funnyness”, if you don’t mind . . .
        but not before early September 2016, when I return from
        my next search trip.

        Good luck to you in your searching. Please stay safe.

    • JD,
      My credit card billed 4/1/13 and showed pending on 4/2/13.
      Order # 1467 received today!!!!
      Don’t know where you’re located, but mine shipped to Texas…..Wonder what criteria they shipped by, certainly not Order Number??

      Fred W

  14. Becky…are you sure you are from WV…? I ask only because everyone that I know from there call it W by gawd V… 😉

    I got my book yesterday and read it last night. Some of the stories in it are pretty funny. I suppose the hints one finds in the book will depend on each persons own point of view. I have found 4 hints that relate to where I am looking…however…if where I am looking is not correct then the hints that I see mean absolutely nothing.

    • Rickinflorida – Yesseree-bob. You betcha. I’m a-sittin’ right chere in West-by-Gawd-Virginy just a-ponderin’ as to if’n I might got a-hankerin’ fer sum-o-dem vittles. I been a-fixin’ to head-on over yonder ‘cross the river to one-o-dem fancy eatin’ places ‘stead a’puttin’ on the feedbag here. I bin a-waitin’ fer one-o-dem danged book dee-livery fellers. Where in Flordy y’all frum, son?

  15. My order was placed 3/26, and I got my book yesterday. I live in az and the shipping label said it came straight from collected works. My order was #5719 so hopefully everyone before/around there has it or will have it soon 🙂

  16. Has anyone had any luck reading the year date on the chapters “Me in the Middle”, “Gypsy Magic”, “The Totem Cafe Caper”, “My Brother Being Skippy”, “My War for Me” and “Gold and More”? It looks like it might say 1893 but sometimes appears to be a mirrored image. I don’t think this is as subtle as the clues in the book are supposed to be so I’m trying not to spend too much time on this… I just wonder if someone has a better thought than 1893. I know Forrest has mentioned, seemingly surprised at the reach, that folks are trying to interpret these post marks but often the best way to conceal something is to hide it right out there in plain sight.

    Also the “Ode to Peggy Jean” chapter is the only one that has a PM time of day postmark on it…

  17. A response from Forrest to an email that Dal posted on Jan 26, 2012:

    ‘All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f’

    Spend your time as you think is prudent looking through the book, but I would recommend reading what he has to say if you want to find those subtle clues. I doubt that you will get any special, hidden, or encrypted instructions that lead you to where you really want to be looking.

    That’s my 2 cents; though 2 cents is not worth much. 🙂

  18. I read the book over the last few nights and did not get a lot out of it to help confirm my favorite guesses as to where the treasure might be found. There must be more to some of these chapters because some of them seem relatively unimportant memories of his youth, or maybe they are just “filler” for the more important chapters that do have “subtle” clues. I’ll have to puzzle more over the poem and read the book a few more times to see if anything pops out at me as a “subtle” clue. Maybe they are too subtle for me. 🙂

  19. I did my first reading of the book last night and was wondering: does anyone know what Mr. Fenn’s mother did for an occupation? Other than mother, wife, etc…? Curiosity. Thanks!

    • Blue-
      Forrest’s mom did not have a profession other than mom and wife and family care giver. Unless you count the summers when they owned the Fenn Cabins. The senior Fenns ran that operation together.

  20. Thanks Dal. I was curious because of the book. He says his folks met while his dad was at college. I just wondered if she was going to school for something as well.

  21. My apologies to those that haven’t received their book yet,

    People in the past have commented on the photo of the opened chest on the back of the dust cover. On the inside of the lid, just below the latch are 3 characters. People have commented that they are the letters CES and no one seems to know what they mean. It actually looks like CE5 to me. I haven’t been able to find out anything about CE5 either.

    I doubt it will help find the chest but we don’t know until we figure it out. The characters look surprisingly clean and sharp for such an old chest. Almost as if they were recently painted. The chest may have been restored before the photo was taken, but I find it a little odd that they are so clear. Could it be a subtle hint?

    any ideas?

    jd

    • CES = a well known abbreviation for the Consumer electronics show
      and the Centre for European Studies (which likely has more to do with a Romanesque chest than the latest intel chipped toy).
      And the german for C flat

      or perhaps you’re reading it upside down, and part of it is scratched off, and it used to say “SEO” like search engine optimization? 😉

      No, I don’t think it was a hint (that will help find the chest). For all we know the prior owner was Jean Ces, France’s BRONZE medal winning Olympic BOXer, and he just engraved his name on there. 😀

        • That’s some out of the box thinking there, Mapsmith. I think I will stick to my solve for now..no offense., especially now since I tune-uped my spidey-sense (aka 6th sense) and ready to hit the trail again…hopefully before the real first snow. After going over my last solved, I realized that I back-tracked on a clue instead keeping them in order (Just a tip to all searchers out there). I think I got my head on straight now. Just hope its still there waiting to be found.

      • With only the poem to go by, CES means nothing(IMO).. Add the book to the equation, and CES could mean everything, depending on your own ideas…you never know !

  22. CES may stand for anything…lots of words

    C = Carats (Diamonds)
    E = Emeralds
    S = Sapphires

    The list can go on and on to make millions of words with the letters C E S or sentences such as the one below:

    CHEST is at the EDGE of a STREAM

    • VGBOSS,

      I think you read the first paragraph of my post and ignored the second. My comment was that the characters look like CE5 (five) to me. What words can you make out of that?

      jd

      • @JD – you dare ask me what I can make out of your CE5? My mind is in abundance of imagination but okay I’ll share something to participate.

        CE5

        Well first off I can use your CE and change it to SEE for it sounds the same to me.

        S = 19
        E = 5
        E = 5

        S = 19 (English Alphabet starting with A as 1)
        In the numerology stars wheel (Constellations) COMMITMENT and ENERGY(CE) are numbers 1 and 9 (That’s what one needs to find Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Trove)

        E = 5
        E = 5

        You can organize, flip flop those fives and it gives you the Omega symbol found at the end of The Thrill of the Chase Book. Click this link… http://tinyurl.com/btd2egq

        5+5=10
        Roman Numeral for 10 is X and X marks the spot!

        Lastly your single digit 5 after CE or SEE. Well you have 5 fingers on one hand and 5 fingers on the other hand place those together, to touch evenly, and you pray that noone find the Treasure Trove before you do.

        JD don’t get mad, just having fun here and I did participate isn’t that what’s it’s all about?

      • VGBOSS,

        thanks for your participation. I dare say your ideas come from places I have never ventured. Your mastery is way over my head.

        and I thought the puzzle was difficult to understand…

        jd

  23. JD no mastery at all…Forrest Fenn’s Poem is just that perfect…Anything fits, in any way or method…no matter how you attack it! Forrest is a genius and I’m sort of jealous. lol

  24. Does anyone know what a banco is? In the chapter titled “Father On The Banco” Mr. Fenn’s father sits on one in Mr. Fenns office. I assumed it was a slanted seat of some kind but decided to look it up and can’t find it having anything to do with sitting.
    From the online dict: noun
    1.
    a declaration made by a bettor in certain gambling games, as baccarat and chemin de fer, indicating a bet matching the full amount in the bank, to the exclusion of all previous lower bets: often used as an interjection.

    Could it be a safe or vault?

    just curious…

    jd

    • JD-
      Forrest makes up words in his writings. This may be one of them. I assumed it was Forrest’s way of saying “money” or “bank”, as in, Father On Money or Father On The Bank.

      • Thanks mapman51,

        I tried an online Spanish translation and didn’t come up with anything. That’s why I tried Wikipedia, then posted. Now I can find it:

        nm. bank; bench; heap (of snow); shoal, school; shelf; (Mexico) a piece of hard rock that result in the course of the vein deviating

        That was easy! Not sure what I was doing wrong previously.

        Aso thanks to Dal, bonnie, bco and others that replied. I didn’t want to post individual
        thanks” and add to the clutter of this thread. Now I can do 3 or more at once.

        I appreciate all!

        jd

    • In adobe houses, they build a little ledge thing against the wall called a banco, it’s usually by the fireplace like it says in the book. It was the old spanish version of a couch. It also means bank in spanish. Very clever, Forrest!

    • Georgia O’Keefe has a painting, El Banco del Apache. There is a place in New Mexico in Rio Arriba County also named El Banco del Apache. I think it is relatively close to Bandolier National Monument.

    • JD – if you’re still out there a year later. IMO the Banco references 2 things: a type of bench, and perhaps Forrest paid off his father’s second house mortgage. just a guess.

  25. WOOHOO!! 🙂 got my book today 🙂 I will be soaking it in and ravishing it for all the gooey details I can get out of it. I’ve really enjoyed even reading the preface and first few pages in the car once I left the bookstore. The clerk asked if I’d been there last night and I was sad to say that I had to miss it because I work at night.

    I really thank you Forest,somehow I still got a signed copy> 🙂 Muchas Gracias Senor 🙂 ,xie–xie, Danke ,very much obliged ,Sir. 🙂

  26. I just want to share with everyone something that I found extremely humorous in the book. I hope you do also.

    I am in my late 50’s and quietly enjoying my simple life after toiling for different companies since I was 14. My wife still has a couple years left teaching then we begin our retirement together. For the last… at least 30 years I have tried to emphasize spiritual growth in my life… to become more aware of who I am and how I relate to you, to a higher power and to our world. This journey has taken different forms and practices but growth has always been evident to me. And needless to say, the path continues before me. My journey for deeper spiritual awareness is never ending, even while hunting for a treasure chest.

    Reading Mr. Fenn’s book, on page 15 (which someone pointed out is the only page not numbered, but I don’t remember who… sorry) he goes into a deep thought. Let me enter it:

    Not a day passes that I don’t question myself about what lies ahead and whether or not I can make it happen like it’s supposed to be. Now, near the end of my seventy-ninth year, each day tests me in a different way and I know that before too long I’ll make my last flight to where even memory itself will never have been. Sooner or later each of us will be nothing but the leftovers of history or an asterisk in a book that was never written. So now I sit here past midnight, beside my juniper fire, reflecting back to the year when my awareness took it’s first steps.*

    Heavy stuff, right? “how it’s supposed to be”, “where memory itself will never have been”, “where my awareness took it’s first steps”. Wow! The reflections of a 79 year old contemplating his life and how he will be remembered… reflecting on when HIS awareness began.

    I turn the page, anticipating an insight of how MY awareness may take the next step… and when doing so I read the chapter heading… FIRST GRADE

    Well, I guess some of us see it earlier than others.

    jd

    • @JD
      That is humorous………You are right……Fenn is contemplating his life. In a way he sounds like he’s trying to figure out a way to beat the inevitable end we all face.

      Fenn has always said “get out of my way” when told he can’t do something. He had slim to no chance of becoming a fighter pilot……but he did. Surviving being shot down twice unscathed is miraculous; in those days just pulling the ejection lever was considered a hazardous endeavor. He became an art dealer not knowing anything about art. He beat cancer after being given a 20% chance of survival. It looks like he beat the government investigation. Reminds me of that old country song about good ol boys:

      Just good ol’ boys
      Never meaning no harm
      Beats all you ever saw, been in trouble with the law
      Since the day they were born

      Making their way, the only way they know how
      That’s just a little bit more than the law will allow

      Someday the mountain might get’em
      But the law never will

      Fenn has had an amazing life and enjoys bucking the system and being in the lime light. He’s obviously is not going to quietly fad away. If anyone can conquer death it will be Finn.

      Do not go gentle into that good night.
      Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

      • Goofy,

        It sure seems like everything eventually works in his favor. Sounds like a movie I saw once, but it was shrimp instead of art.

        I say “Good for him”.

        If you believe in multiple lives, he may have had a hard one somewhere down the line.

        jd

    • Actually he is not only talking about the hereafter, his developing years but also about the awareness that he could make a final statement about all of his core beliefs and layer them into a book, a treasure hunt and a challege to society as a whole. Hows that for a run on sentence? lol) Many layers, its a heck of alot more than it appears.

      • Yep. But who are they and why point them out? I mean it looks like the captioning and detailing were added for publication. Not something pulled out of the family scrapbook that way. I could be wrong and they are neighborhood friends. It just seemed out of place.

    • I agree the names are odd. I don’t think they are mentioned or appear in the later photos of his friends. The names seem to beg for anagrams though:
      EDARD = DARED = DREAD
      ME EDARD = DREAMED
      PAT = TAP
      KACIR = ??? but has a CK
      I think the arrow is original, but all the rest was added.

    • Edard is french for Edward. If you Google Edward Kacir, he is a person who lived in Texas and is buried in San Antonio. I’ve tried to link this to something, but haven’t been able to figure anything out. Plus I’ve tried to dig up old archives of Lanier Elementary to see if there ever was any one by any of those names. Boy has he got me grasping for straws.

      • Brian-
        Forrest has told us that Edard was Edward’s nickname. Forrest said it was simply easier to say so that’s what everyone called him and of course that’s how his name was also spelled by his friends…like Forrest.
        Forrest’s nickname was Bubba…I don’t know if his friends called him that but his family did. It began when his brother could not say “brother”. It came out “Bubba’.

  27. Anybody – Can you please explain to me why “No Place for Biddies” is in FF’s memoirs? Just kinda rambles on & on. What’s the point of the story? What’s a biddy?

    • A busy-body…nosy old lady always in others business who likes to gossip and talk about others. Think it’s one of those opinion fillers that may describe a mindset (kind of like his criticism of them at Borders.)

    • (from Merriam-Webster online)
      Biddy (noun):
      2. usually disparaging: woman; especially: an elderly woman
      – usually used to describe a person with a closed mind and who makes nasty comments about others.

    • Dont stop there. Anytime you notice something strange in the book start thinking. Think about Forrests life, if you dont know anything about him then google him. When I starting asking myself the questions and really examining what was off about it I found the clues.Here is a hint, the first two clues are on the preface page.

  28. Two clues from the book, went on the top of my clue list, here’s one of them. “I bend a little”.

  29. I’m just starting to read the book. In it, f mentions the distance to Yellowstone as being 1600 miles from Texas, where he grew up. The two omegas in the back of the book add up to 1600 (value of 800 x 2). Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet…CHC

  30. How many pages are in your book? I have a 2nd edition and it has 147 pages. I’m wondering because I’ve seen comments (can’t remember where or who) that seemed to indicate more, possibly in the 1st edition? Maybe I’m losing it.

    • I have been told that the only contextual difference between the first edition and all other editions is that the first edition has Forrest’s phone number in it. The rest do not. By the way. They are binding up their 5th printing right now, 7,700 copies.

      • Did you first edition have a number assigned to each book on the first page above the horse and published by information? Im curious if copy 1- 500 were numbered and have a good reason for asking. Can anyone who got a first edition answer this?

  31. I notice, since the book has been sitting around a while, that when I pick it up, more clues fall out. I think the clues in the poem form a pattern, I think there’s a picture of the pattern in the book.

  32. I am appalled how many people dont think the book is important to solving the puzzle. I cant take people seriously who think that way.I will probably end up being a lurker, like all the rest.

  33. just some thoughts regarding stories in the book,

    From the Preface: Mr. Fenn mentions having lots of time to think about regrets and other things. I think he might have a lot of regrets (don’t we all?) and this hunt might be one way to deal with some of them. He shares some regrets with us. Flying over and interrupting the funeral ceremony is just one. There are others.

    He wasn’t always happy growing up. Have you noticed in the photos how often everyone but him is smiling? Except as a young child and later as an adult, he looks very sad. Even with a table full of fish… you’d think he’d be ecstatic, unless he has to clean them all and didn’t get too catch any of them. Even in all of the fishing photos of pages 122-123, everyone else is smiling. Skippy and June are always smiling in her photos. But not him. I wonder why he chose these photos for his memoir. He’s always smiling with Peggy though… no doubt there!

    We know the feds raided his home and investigated how he obtained some of his artifacts. My experience is “where there’s smoke, there’s usually fire”… but not always. Although not proven, could there have been some truth behind the investigation and now he is trying to get rid of some of his ill gotten gains in a manner that resolves his regret? Sure he could give the possessions to a charity, but by putting it out there for someone to find, if there is any negativity associated with the way he obtained the items, maybe he’s not passing that onto someone else. Maybe it is being released through the “finding” of the items by the new owner. This could be his way of “giving it back”. This is all pure speculation and opinion on my part, but entirely possible.

    Facing death has a way of making a person examine their life and sometimes they want to “correct” their perceived shortcomings. Could that be what this is all about? Is he trying to get rid of some of his booty, perhaps correct some wrongs, while at the same time leave a positive legacy? He may even feel that he has been “given” extra time on earth and is determined to make the best of it to prepare for whatever waits in his afterlife future. We know he went to church as a child. So he must have some expectation of what follows death. In a way I think this hunt is about atonement for Mr. Fenn. I know he keeps saying he wants to get families out in nature but I don’t think that was the original driving force behind this hunt. I think he may have picked up that idea later on.

    He seems anti formal education… experience over education. One example is his father’s comment in the Preface: “Who would you rather have working on your car, a man who just graduated from four years of mechanics school or a guy who has been working on broken cars for four years?”

    Becky from WV posted a ways back that she would rather hire a certified educated mechanic than someone working on broken cars for four years. I asked myself, “why is someone working on broken cars for four years? One answer is: Because he can’t FIX any of them.

    It seems on the surface Mr. Fenn was trying to tell us that experience is better than education, but is he really? Does he regret not getting an education. He tried to go to college with his buddies even though he felt he didn’t belong there. He said he wanted to be with his buddies, but later on seemed proud to say that he went to college.

    He traveled around the world learning to fly jets for the Air Force. His brother Skippy flew in and landed on a lake he could not take off from. Could education have prevented this mistake? Obviously Skippy’s current level of experience didn’t.

    When he was offered Sitting Bull’s peace pipe, he didn’t just take someone’s word for the value of it like he did the black and white painting of the bleeding dog on the bridge, he educated himself about the pipe as best he could then made an educated purchase.

    Yes, he’s gotten education from his experiences, but at what cost? Is the cost, what he regrets?

    I think this may be “just” a treasure hunt for all of us, but it may be much more for Mr. Fenn, and I think his stories are indicative of that. I almost feel like he’s in a 12 step program and he’s at a stage where he needs to admit to some things and eliminate some things from his life. Although nothing he’s admitting to is life shattering it may be a beginning. If that’s the case… and he’s using us for that purpose… I’m all in.

    “It doesn’t matter who you are, it only matters who they think you are.” I don’t think he believes that either, or he wouldn’t have any regrets. It may work for a salesman on the job, but not for someone thinking about his life ending.

    How does this help me find the chest? Not sure, but it’s now become part of my education.

    this is all just my thoughts and opinions of course.

    jdh

    • I agree with some of your observations, but I have to say that Forrest Fenn got an education, an incredible education, just not the piece of paper or sheepskin that comes with paying tuition. I don’t think it’s one of his regrets.

      • Mystified,

        If your referring to his military service, I agree 100%. I wasn’t considering that. Perhaps his desire for an education is part of the reason he enlisted. It’s an option many young people consider who can’t afford college.

        jdh

  34. @jdh But, he wants his Epitaph to read, “I wish I could have lived to do, the things I was attributed to.”

    • James Perotti,

      Yep, and I think that just means that he didn’t do everything he’s been accused of doing. In kind of a “smart-alecky” way he’s saying he’s innocent.

      But he’s also said, and I forget where, that he imagines his father sitting on the edge of a cloud lighting candles at both ends for him. I think lighting candles is a form of seeking forgiveness or atonement. I don’t know what he believes in this regard, but I think Catholics light candles for others. I don’t believe he’s Catholic, I’m just using that religion as an example. “Both ends” might mean he’s done a lot he isn’t proud of, or perhaps his father wouldn’t be proud of. Sounds like regrets to me.

      There’s a lot of sad tones to his memoir. I just think there’s more to the purpose of this hunt than what we know.

      jdh

      • Hi JDH, The kinds of people that get pulled out of caved in digs by there feet, with there lugs full of dirt, usually aren’t the kinds of people that have regrets, there do’ers, and do’ers don’t tend to have regrets. His father would be very proud.

      • I have decoded about 90% of the book so far. You all will be suprised by what is behind all of this.Forrest is not being “smart-alecky”, he is telling everyone the story of what happened to his life when a “friend” came to him with an artifact and a sad story about needing money, dragging Forrest into a government sting. Later it was disclosed this person was working for the government to atone for his own illegal actions and saw this as a way to reduce his sentence. The media did what they always do, they ran with the sensation of the story to boost ratings.
        There is a much bigger picture behind all of this involving a history of governments worldwide using their power to take things from people and then award them to other people. They write laws to cover their butts, then years later they turn around and do it again to the last group they gave something to.
        See Forrest, I saw all the back story just having a bit of trouble sorting out what goes with what layer. Its very complicated!

        • Hi Deb, Yes, I’ve read innuendo in the the book to, oh, now the guy with the axe comes to mind. You realize that the clues in the poem are layered to, right?

    • Yeah, still working on that one, Im sure it fits in the other layer but until I get it completely right I cant disclose what that other layer is about.

  35. Regarding Stout Hearted Men

    Mr. Fenn’s story about leaving college ends with him sleeping under a tree with cows grazing all around (I think Dal has been there after a search). The story closes with “It was a threshold moment in my life, but I didn’t know it at the time.”

    Has anyone made sense of this or know if it has ever been explained?

    jdh

  36. The title of the chapter in my mind explains it all. Seems to be just another stepping stone on the road of life.

  37. Hi, Dal. Very nice blog. For the last few weeks the total number of available books at Collected Works has been 850 or so. Still over 820 are on hand. Seems like the searchers who drop out are not being replaced with new ones. Good news or bad news?

  38. Hey Dal, how come there isn’t a blog about the “other” book TFTW?
    Forrest did say there is a unintentional clue in there, we could blog about what that could be.

    I actually think there is a HUGE clue in that book.

    Has anyone gone to West Yellowstone and searched around Baker’s hole (that he mentions in the preface)?

    1) Forrest mentions how his wife allows him to go off on his own. What better alibi to hide a treasure your wife doesn’t know about than to go on a fishing trip.
    2) Forrest mentions that he fished there were he knew he wouldnt be disturbed by anyone especially Park Rangers. What a better place to hide something as well.
    3) Forrest mentions he has never returned to that place and its too far to walk, as with the treasure’s secret spot
    4) And if you hide something you’ve been working on for years and put your life in, wouldnt you want to stay awhile and reminsce of what you did (Forrest mentions he spent 3 days there)
    5) Forrest also said he wanted to return upon his dying breath and lay with the treasure, in the book he says he “promised myself that some day I would make the trip again”

    • RC-
      I saw a list of them earlier in comments..
      I don’t think it was a comprehensive list…just a start..
      It appears that there are several…many…
      Maybe one is an unintended clue…

  39. I see no reason for Forrest to not mention the State or a general area of where the chest is hidden as he tells us stories of his past. The exact spot , within a few yards, maybe not, but Its a special place to him, so I would expect nothing less. After all, the TTOTC book is “A Memoir” .

    If he were writing a book about Fly Fishing, he would NOT have to mention where he hid the chest… but I bet if would be pretty durn close.

  40. The book is Too Far To Walk and there is a unintentional clue hidden inside.

    I read somewhere that Forrest had said a couple of people have found the clue.

    Anyone else feel that clue is this…..the treasure is NOT secret in Yellowstone?

    Hear me out: His Preface talks of a time he spent alone at the river near West Yellowstone. A time he spent many years ago. And at the end of the preface he says he regrets not being able to go back, its “too far to walk.”

    So if many years is before he secret the treasure, and he hasn’t been back since. Then that would mean it’s not in Yellowstone, and probably not anywhere close since that distance is “too far to walk.”

  41. DJJ-
    He has been back to the Yellowstone area many times since that episode took place. He built a motel in West Yellowstone in the 60s and I have seen photos of Peggy and Forrest with friends taken just a few years ago inside the park.

    It doesn’t mean he has never been back to Yellowstone. It means he has never had the chance to walk that stream again…and he wishes he had..

  42. Dal, I know this section is for comments about TTOTC, but I wanted to ask a question about TFTW and don’t see any other section for that book. Hope this is ok.
    This is my question. Has anyone else thought about the name of the typewriter in TFTW? Under…….wood. Opinions?

  43. in one of the posts (not sure which page), someone mentioned the stamp dates as being wrong days of the week; this is seen on page 72 of ttotc. Forrests marriage date of Sunday the 27th of December 1953. There was a post that noticed the stamp in the image above their marriage photo was dated Sunday December 27th! I have researched that date, and Sunday the 27th of December was of the year 1968! If you notice, the caption on that stamp is titled Tuyhoa S Vienem, as it relates to a date that an award was given to Forrest. See link below:

    http://projects.militarytimes.com/citations-medals-awards/recipient.php?recipientid=97268

    • correction, the date of 1968 was a Saturday, and that was the conflict of December 27 being the same day of week as Forrests marriage; which was in fact on a Sunday

    • I think it definitely was. That’s why it took a period of 15 years to write it, but only 6 weeks for the book. I think he had taken so many notes about possible connections between the poem and the book he knew he was going to write, to interweave all the coincidences and different types of connections; historical, geological, numerical, artistic, every connection we could want. That’s why it took 15 years.

      The book practically wrote itself… because it was already written in his mind.

      jdh

  44. Not sure if this has been written about in the blog before but I was just counting letters in the lines of the poem again and noticed the only line/letter count between 20 and 31 that is missing is a 30 letter line.
    This led me to research the number 30 and found XXX which could mean “the end.” This also led me to Paul Halmos (Mathematician) and the Q.E.D. or tombstone which he used at the end of his articles (same “square” which Mr. Fenn uses to end the stories in his book TTOTC.
    Thought it was interesting info to share.

  45. Read about his ball of string again. I cannot believe he really had a ball of string that large.
    Just a thought…Could he be hinting that as a child he was able to tell a good yarn by stringing together “white” lies which would get him in trouble with his mother.

    Maybe this issue was solved when he had to walk home in the rain from detention.

    Reading too much into it?

    • Best explanation of the ball of string I’ve heard. Bravo on the discovery, and thank you for sharing. It’s not exactly going to lead anyone to the treasure, but for me it puts one ‘abberration at the edge’ to rest. We already knew the book was likely only 85% true, so now we may choose to believe it is a yarn with 15% white lies. Now if you can please discover and share what his mom looking out the window means 🙂

        • William,
          I like the your metaphor suggestion for this instance.
          Mr. Fenn writes about open windows in several other of his stories/chapters..
          I’ve been looking into:
          – windows of opportunity as one metaphor. For example: there is one postage stamp in TTOTC with AM. I think it could be a hint to look before noon (shadows?).
          – AND/OR another instance could hint to look in warm weather when it is not raining.
          – The Katy Railroad chapter might even hint at direction of travel.
          – windows to the past as a historical or memory reference.
          Again, not clues- Just subtle hints.

          Anyone know how many hints could be in a sprinkle?

      • I believe that Forrest wrote the book to tell stories of his life, not so to give out clues to the treasure. It just so happened that there are a couple of hints in his stories. Why are so many of you looking to the book for answers when the answers are in the poem? Even FF said the clues are in the poem! Go back and read the poem and think. Adios!

        • I’ve been looking at everything. Trying to narrow an area down.
          I like the Poem-Book-Poem-Book-Poem-Book reading process.
          I do not think there are more clues to finding the chest in the book.
          What I do think is that some of the stories or instances in which he writes about will shed light on the approximate location. Not necessarily lead you to the chest but a type of confirmation process.
          Subtle/subliminal hints.

          • that is a good idea safety joe

            Forrest has told us to look for hints in the book to help with clues in the poem

            i think only the clues in the poem will be precise, but the hints in the book will help you to extract the clues in the poem

            if someone is having trouble finding the clues in the poem, then reading the book is what they should be doing. this was Forrest’s advice.

      • William-
        Liked your example for open window for this instance.
        I’ve been looking into several other references in the stories/chapters in which he uses open window in TTOTC.
        I do believe he is using subtle hints.
        For example: The postage stamp with an AM on it could mean- search before noon (shadows?).
        -The Katy Railroad chapter could be hinting at direction of travel and/or distance.
        – another reference with his aircraft window open could be about memories of the past.
        – I also think open window could be a windows to the past type of historical reference.
        Not clues just subtle hints.

        Anyone know how many hints could be in a sprinkle?

    • in my opinion, if you understand one of the hints he is giving out here on pages 127/128, it tells you how to extract the zip code of the area where the chest is hid. this is one of the reasons the postman is mentioned

      • Sorry, Chris, but I don’t think Forrest was that elaborate with his hints, and besides I don’t think he would give out such a telling hint. The zip code would give too much away and it would be too easy to go from there. The hints,….. Forrest, has said there are also other subtle clues sprinkled in the stories, but they are not placed to aid the searcher. …….Adios!

        • well i dont think you’re giving Forrest enough credit if you dont think he was that elaborate

          i think he could and would put that hint in there but make it very difficult to find. i think the clue for WWH is easier to crack, and it would be easier to go to the chest from WWH then to try and do it only knowing the zip code

          the hint for the zip code is so difficult that one would only recognize it after the fact, imo. and it isn’t necessary because if you crack WWH then you already know the zip code. it is only put in as a confirmation and to make the poem as elaborate and complete as possible. this is Forrest’s baby, and he architect ‘d it over many years.

          ok so maybe architect isnt a verb lol, but u know what i mean

          on your last quote “but they are not placed to aid the searcher” … you are quoting Forrest incorrectly here and thus have changed the meaning

          look again at the correct quote and think about what Forrest meant. i believe you will see it doesn’t support your reply, more like contradicts it

          • Sorry Chris,… didn’t mean to upset you, just giving my opinion, and I wasn’t quoting Forrest, I didn’t put “quotes” around the statement. He has also said something to the effect that his poem is straight forward and not playing and games. Just simple words that if followed precisely will lead to the treasure, or something to that effect.

            It seems likely that if you knew the zip code of the area then WWWH would be a lot easier to find, and hence on your way to the trove. Just my opinion…Adios!

          • it is true that if you knew the zip code it would make finding WWH alot easier

            on the Forrest quote, you left out a significant word which changes the meaning

            putting quotes around it is irrelevant to the point

            Forrest has said the zip code is in the poem

            there, i didn’t put quotes around that.

            does that make it ok for me to claim Forrest said that?

          • Okay,…. I get it Chris,…so what significant word did I leave out, and why does it make a difference? Are you making any progress on your solve? Good luck to you!….Adios!

  46. Did anyone find the missing number in “Two far to Walk” ? I found it and I dont want to talk about it, but did anyone find it too? Hint ……#1

  47. Has anybody found tangible evidence(clues) in the book as to a physical place? As far as I can tell there are only two clues, or hints as Mr. Fenn calls them, in the book. These two hints have to do with “As I have gone along in there”, and “where warm waters halt”. These are the only tangible hints in the poem, I think, other than the clues in the poem. Has anybody else found these two hints? These two hints take you to a historic site. I think “and take it in the canyon down” is a clue that you have to find out with your imagination after you get there. I maybe wrong, just like anybody out there, but these are the only hints that help you with the poem. I keep telling you guys that “As I have gone alone in there” is the first clue, and this is a general place, and it is the beginning of the search, and the poem. RC

    • I’m with you RC. But what do I know? It’s getting to be a dog eat dog world out here and I’m nothing but a fire hydrant

    • IMO: “as I have gone alone in there “means either he went somewhere closed/restricted that he really wasn’t supposed/allowed to; or the path (or hiding place ) includes a traverse too small for anything larger than 1 man.
      Or both : e.g. down a well that lies inside the fence of a restricted/closed-off area.

  48. for myself i have (IMHO) found what i think are supportive clues!. But for me….the one I think I have nailed is the ” heavy loads and water high” clue. To me it was supported in the book And don’t even get me started on the Home of Brown as my solve is perfect for my string of my 4 clues….IMHO! But with that said – RC….come on buddy! You can’t say you know that for a fact. Maybe that’s where you just feel strongest about? HELL – I can’t say your wrong though even though my first clue is WWWH. So to me i have 4 clues that i have locked onto. The other 5..wellll…I am starting to unfold them and I think I am going in the right direction so far. But that can change with those “AHA”! moments. Good Luck to all. FF’s treasure is like a garden….DIG IT!

    • TexasGold * I cannot tell you that I know for a fact that “As I have gone alone in there” is the first clue, because it could be a hint in the poem as to “where warm waters halt” is. What I can say for sure is that I know where you finish the search. It is in the poem. And the place is a tangible site,something you can feel, and see. I am not guessing in any shape or form. I will tell you this- the poem has the name of the site. I have been “in there” but have not been able to decipher the rest of the poem. RC

      • I see what you are saying. But for me i see the ending as hard as the beggining. As the 1st clue is a large locale and the end being a finite locale with no other than a descriptive/clue pointers place that you followed the clues to get to there. yet it is still a locale (IMHO). I agree that if a clue is solved correctly in sequence you will end up at the TC.

      • RC, what you said is not clear to me. Would you be
        willing to explain what you meant by “I know where you
        finish the search.” ?? Thanks.

        Good luck to you. Please be safe.

  49. for the bookie-lookies — a thought on “Listen Good”—
    I suspect that first time visitors to Yellowstone always hit the geysers first. Look!Surprise!Marvel! But in one afternoon it’s done. To me, geyser watching is a passive “been-there/done-that” activity that invites little revisiting. I think FF picked such a start-site for his first time treasure hunters. His metaphor was college lit which begins with literary geysers like Hem & Fitz. But with experience, that literary floor seems rather “plain”.
    In IMP LIT I assumed Norris: “The100 Spring Plain”, that coffee cup is probably Porcelain, its boardwalks braid around the springs, faces sniffer in the sulfur fumes & mist. Mostly women, so I guess the men are off fishing. On the 2nd day, that $6.50/hr loudmouth, might be Roaring Mt. (Is 6.50 a direction or a distance hint?)
    From Roaring, by auto, you can only drive up or down hwy 89, & here FF offers two reasons for not having started his auto-biography (freedom & down). I’m guessing freedom is a ref to Mammoth’s liberty cap & down is just down. Flipping back to the book, next is Kismet … a strange inclusion. However, my AAA map shows a Sulfatera Trail up the road a bit. And if I don’t “listen good”, or I think like a kid, or just for easy recall, I might note it as Sultan Trail, … and Kismet makes a little sense. So does “dirt”. Get out of the car here?
    Then damit, First Grade comes & ruins everything. There’s those abutting Park Counties with a wooden 45th parallel sign near the door. Dominating window grids on a brick schoolhouse screaming to me some kind of cipher grid full of bad language, in need of organization. I’d work harder on that if FF wasn’t such a joker. It’ll prolly say “Drink your Ovaltine”.
    I know my analytical style is thin, I am skimming over a lot of connective tissue, but I think that “listen good” is a neglected clue. FF suggests reading the poem over & over… maybe what we should be hearing is a slip of the lip, a Freudian slip, a Holy Grail/Royal Blood type error. Not an external natural sound, but an intellectual one.

  50. There is a location in the poem which is also in the book. This is where you start.Open your eyes, and your ears. Do not be guessing where you start.RC

  51. Thinking more on KISMET (fate), and “Listening Good”, I thought “Caliph” might sound like “Cliff” and Obsidian Cliff is just up the road from Roaring Mt. So I read the 1911 script… its online. There is no pickpocket, only Hajj the beggar. Maybe the movie version turned him into a pickpocket. Turn & switch are frequent words in TTOTC & in Kismet, everyone’s fortunes turn with stunning frequency. This line may be a tell: Kut-al-K (kettle?) instructs Hajj– “Come to this courtyard. My FAITHFUL slave of my FIREHOLE shall wait thy coming and lead thee by unknown passage under that BATHS straight to the HEART of the harim.” (Is the blaze a heart?) Two song titles from the movie aptly apply to the treasure hunt as well. I have other reasons to still think the treasure is in NM, but I’m trying to leave no leaf unturned. Thanks for the fun FF.

  52. Everybody please pay attention. In the book Mr. Fenn said that the treasure was in the mountains somewhere north of Santa Fe. When he went to Taos to throw Olga’s ashes he mentioned he went to the Taos mountain. Now, what I think Mr. Fenn meant when he said “in the mountains” is that the treasure is in between at least two mountains and not generally in the mountains. I think whoever finds the treasure will find himself, or herself in between mountains. RC

  53. Ordered my copy of “The Thrill of The Chase” three days ago. It arrived today. After reading a few pages I took the dust cover and placed it someplace for safe keeping. With an open mind I started reading in earnest, not having a focal point in mind I just read. I find it to be easy reading and entertaining. Wow in so many ways I can identify with Forrest Fenn. Forrest you managed to capture the life and times of many in an age when life challenges them and somehow they make a way through the difficulties. Funny thing, I was sitting here thinking about your early school years when a face from my past popped into my head. It was the face of my first music teacher. Mr. West. his face concealed by the mists of time.
    Thank you Forrest for helping me to recall people, places and things long past.

  54. Just thinking about the crescent moon on TTOTC pg.146.
    This made me think of the idiom “all but.”
    For example: If a coffee cup “all but covered her whole face (TTOTC pg..9) “…what is left?
    The term “all but” confuses me but I think a crescent/portion of the face would be left.
    Could it mean the whole face was covered?
    Not sure how this will help in a solve but just wondering.

  55. What about page 150 in the Book. How do you print words that need to be read with a manifying glass. I guess you do a xerox reduction several times???

  56. I have given up my first translation of a part of a TTOTC story over at Stephanie’s for anyone who needs help reading the book.

  57. Grapette isn’t the most infamous of POPs, DDT has holds that title. “Silent Spring” was an eye opener for the world.

    • DDT left its mark on the Sangres. administered on the national forests but so many consequences, not the least were those experienced by the people who lived in tiny villages high in the Sandres whose water came from the mountain streams.

  58. Louis, the obvious difference is addition by 2. My guess at the less obvious is ‘supervision’ by long arms, and total indifference to Barney Fife’s supervision. The real players are in the game. What is your interpretation of the illustration’s subtle clue? Btw, looking for aberrations in the sketches is enjoyable to me. There are many in both books – but I’m never sure if they are red herrings or valid clues.

  59. “Grab every banana”
    I was looking at a 1909 magazine called “Today”, much like a Reader’s Digest magazine…short stories and jokes but with lots of ads. This magazine seems aimed exclusively at housewives and has all kinds of “free offers” for everything from jewelry to accordion lessons to Edison phonographs. One of the “free offers” was for a pair of needlepoint pillow covers. Each had a phrase stitched into the design. One read “Daisies won’t tell”. This came from a popular song at the time. I couldn’t find the 1908 recording but I found the 1913 recording. If you’re interested in knowing why Daisies don’t tell…look here:
    http://www.loc.gov/jukebox/recordings/detail/id/3082/

    But what caught my eye was the phrase on the other pillow cover which read , “Gather the rosebuds while ye may”. It seemed like the feminine voice of “Grab every banana”. I could not find any historical reference for the “banana” quote but it just makes sense that guys would not go around talking about rosebuds but certainly might have been compelled to use the concept and change the words. Apparently the “rosebud” phrase was a popular saying at the time and came from a poem by Robert Herrick around 1648. You can read the poem here:
    http://www.poets.org/poetsorg/poem/virgins-make-much-time

    Forrest’s dad was born prior to 1909 and may very well have grown up with these sayings. He was also maturing about the same time that bananas became very popular and reasonably priced in the Americas. They appeared in markets here in the 1880s but apparently didn’t become a sensation until twenty years later.

    This comment has no point other than to help me and you understand the context behind Forrest’s dad telling him to “Grab every banana” rather than something less colorful like “Don’t pass up any opportunities” which is what my dad told me.

    • “Grab every banana”,

      Every time I read or hear it I’m thinking “not the best of advice”.
      Here is a little story.

      It was a Sunday in the Summer of 1980 and my dad, my uncle and me went to forage for raspberries up on mountain slopes (I could tell the exact day: Romania won the Handball Silver Medal at the Olympics. We listened to the game while riding the bus up to the ski resort), but back to the story.

      I was skinny and quick and picked every berry that I could grab; would spend several minutes around a bush.
      Meanwhile, my uncle and dad would just “float” from plant to plant picking only the big ripe ones.
      Guess who ended up collecting more, and better quality wise?

      If I was to paraphrase Forrest, that day I’ve learned an important lesson about quantity, quality, work smart not hard, and a bunch of others things…

      I doubt that Forrest himself took that advice to heart.
      Imagine grabbing every banana in Monopoly, or art dealing for that matter: I don’t think it’ll work to ones advantage.

    • Interesting that needle point and rose buds is being mentioned. Sometimes like I’ve said before it could be in a thorn bush. Look at the picture with forrest and the designer girl she has that piece of arm clothing all the way up her arm. I’m sure some may know about a story of the thorn bush 🙂

    • I wonder if Fenn thinks we are all bananas? 😆

      There’s a very old story, in various versions, about monkeys and bananas. It’s called the monkey experiment.

      Several monkeys were placed in a large cage with a bunch of bananas hanging in the middle. Every time a monkey went to get a banana all of the monkeys were sprayed with cold water. Before long when a monkey would build up his courage and try to get a banana the others would stop him.

      The monkeys were then replaced one by one with a new monkey. Each time a new monkey was placed in the cage he would of course try to get a banana; the other monkeys always stopped him. Soon all of the original monkeys were replaced with a new monkey that had never been sprayed with cold water; but they all still stopped the new monkey from getting a banana without knowing why.

      Fenn obviously didn’t fall into this type of group think. He says his success was because of not going to college and being indoctrinated with this group think. When all the educated monkeys would try to stop him; he just became more determined.

      Today’s educational system is a very large version of the monkey cage. Competition is bad, we shouldn’t hurt anyone’s feelings, and achieving success is greedy. Everyone gets a trophy for nothing. They are trained monkeys to accept sameness; merit pay is evil and unfair, the success you deserve will be guaranteed by big brother. Soon all the guys like Fenn will not be allowed to exists.

  60. Also I have taken IT in the canyon down . And found IT somewhere at the bottom, but high up and my It has fallen and rolled down the hill. So It is not there anymore. 🙁

    But I can still use my imigination right 🙂

  61. In Colorado where we search
    So this huge rock that meant something to the town has fallen
    When it rolled with force down the mountain it really damaged the railroad tracks.

  62. i thought i would open up some discussion about the photo of Lanier school, a couple years ago when i started this puzzle i noticed that certain people are circled in the photograph , Forrest, Pat, Edard, Kacir and Skippy . I have researched all circled people and noticed that all of them were alive at time the book was published except for Skippy, could this be the answer to ” two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead? any thoughts?

    • In regards to the observation of “Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.”
      Consider this. The following people are deceased: Forrest’s father. He may have known of the area. Skippy, and others some of which I am not aware of at this moment.

      The most outstanding question in my mind is “What was the circumstances that led to the initial discovery of the hiding place?” Was he looking for a new fishing place?
      Or was he looking for something related to his love for collecting things of the past.

    • 49, here’s my short list of guesses at who can keep a secret if one is dead:
      Skippy
      Joe Rivera
      Eric Sloane
      [Different reasons for each, but they weren’t playing dolls. treasured childhood memory with Skippy, discovery of artifacts with Joe, double omega meaning/old west with Eric.]

  63. CE5
    I have never been a big fan of CE5 having any significant meaning to the location of the treasure, however the following facts have made me look into this a little deeper:
    1) it is illogical to mark a 850 year old chest in such a visible location.
    2) FF says it is there to remind him to do something.
    3) 6 more questions with Jenny Kile – FF says “All that I could remember was that I was not supposed to forget something”

    FF continues to say CE5 won’t help us find the chest and that still may be true. With that said, I think I finally have figured out what this elusive code means thanks to some of his more recent posts.

    If it is something he needs to remember to place in the chest, then it makes perfect sense that just before he closes the lock, the last thing he will see is the CE5.

    Since he is carrying the contents to place in the chest in a separate trip it might make sense to use a reminder. Note, he said that he included other objects that he did not mention. He also says that it would be worth our while almost implying that the chest contents may be more valuable that what he has listed.

    One possible object he hinted at was the possible $100,000 note for telling him it was found. He says he can’t remember if he placed it in there or not. I know many were skeptical that statement.

    I now think that statement gives CE5 actual credibility as a reminder, but I don’t believe it is the $100,000 conditional note since that was too hard to administer. I think the missing object(s) has much more to do with the actual code and the fact that it might have been carried separate from the other contents. Maybe it is quite small and valuable and was carried in his pocket for protection but he might have been forgotten to put it in the chest if that reminder is not there.

    Here is a hint: Many wonder how he could know if the treasure has been found; well if there is something in the chest that is so valuable that the finder has no choice but to reveal it, that is how he would know. If my theory proves true, there is no way I could keep it a secret. Monetarily alone it would be not make sense. However with this object there is no need for an electronic tracking device as it serves that purpose.

    I personally believe it is also clue related in a subtle way and would provide a huge advantage to find the beginning (and the end.)

    The Wolf

    • Wolf,

      Here is my latest thought on the matter. In the chest is a quit claim deed to the property where the chest is located. The poem solution could be miles from this spot. You must sign and file the deed to lay claim to the property…and therein is the public proclamation…or …a simple video cam monitored by Mr. Fenn…or both…or ….none of the above. So…that narrows it downs some! Who cares…just find the chest all reddy.

      • Wind, I was tracking with you until you said the poem’s solution could be miles from the chest, and the quit claim deed is in the chest. Do you mean the poem leads you to one of his jars with info leading to the chest? I thought Mr. Fenn already addressed that question saying there were no notes, etc to be found, just the chest is there for whom ever finds it. I’m already addled today, please don’t further confuuse me.

  64. Wolf –

    What is “it” ? lol

    Very interesting post re: CE5

    One reason he may have marked the chest is – if there is more than one box – of the same mold – CE5 could distinguish “which” chest is the real one – used in “The Chase”.

    Could he have placed in the chest, right before he closed it the final time – a device which would trigger a message to him in some way?

    I wish he put something more of value in the chest – that would be awesome. What could it be – that one could not keep it a secret?

    I’ve often thought that the C = the word “see” and E 5 would be directions on a map – or East 5 degrees and haven’t put any of those ideas together – yet.

    I like your ideas more. 🙂

    • Wolf – I like your simple “see East 5 degrees” too.

      So many possible meanings for CE5 that show up in search engines:

      – C ‘see’ East 5 degrees (thanks wolf)
      – Century 5 [Roman law starts Human rights timeline
      – Hebrew designation for the triune God
      – breath of God
      – Hebrew code for taking a life
      – QR code of antiquities
      – winds round the North Pole
      – property codes
      – Electronic cigarettes chemical

      I’m lost 🙂 in the wilderness of my brain trails

      • 42 you hit the nail on the head with CE5 being QR- code for antiquities.
        I say this because: (1) Forrest collects antiquities. (2) He bought and sold art.
        As a dealer in various things I can say tracking a given items history, paid price and srp is very important.

        So with this in mind I am not going to dwell on this matter.

        Many here and elsewhere are pondering how Forrest will know when the chest is found. All I will say is he has already told us! Funny thing is most have overlooked it.

        Happy sleuthing, wahahahaha

        • @ Chad how will Forrest know? Probably because someone would tell him BUT to say he will know because he will know is ignorant UNLESS he can go back and check outside of those two reasons I gave Forrest can’t know UNLESS the finder were to sell something somewhere.

          • Ummm as I said he has already told us how he will know when it is found.
            Consider what he has said in the past. Therein lies the answer.
            Here is a hint: Looking at my wrist watch I see it is time to find a key.

            Forrest; this is so fun I now see why you sit and smile.

        • Forrest told us that he put the CE5 on the chest and he told us what it means. It’s no clue according to Forrest…so why waste time on it?

          I was in the room when it was first pointed out to Forrest in a photo by a reporter. The reporter asked him what it meant…Forrest told him exactly what it is and told him it will not help anyone find the chest. Seems like there are many more useful ideas to ponder than the ones Forrest tell’s us outright not to look at for clues or hints…

          But far be it from me to get in the way of anyone’s fun..

      • 42 –

        I’m just putt putting along here – always seems like it’s up hill.

        I’m the one who said the thing about degrees – not that it matters much.

        • inthechaseto – sorry i got that wrong. just having a bit of a time staying focussed ftoday, or spelling correctly. Downshifting here, you can enjoy a chuckle from the rumble seat at my expense. with erroll flynn refs in book, poem, and on past blogs I enjoyed one perfect movie fit in my last solve. still chasing that lead to use with new area, I enjoyed a brief chat with one erroll flynn brown.thought you’d laugh. Also tied ttrancher from last area to spiderman which is a nice touch on toys are forever page. Still don’t know the name of the pool hall. I hear there’s a local pale ale with great lunch menu down the road.

          • 42 =

            Anything with Erroll Flynn – count me in.

            Local pale ale is good – I’ve had it and it is recommended. You can even take your dog there – on their nice shady patio..

            Spiderman is not my forte – I had all girls – so those kind of toys – where not in our house LOL.

        • inthechaseto – if you’re putting, don’t forget the sand wedge laying on the green. I sure hope ff didn’t bury it in a sand trap on a muni course. That would be reason to bring the ‘sandwedge’ and flash light to dig it up at night. Ha! Course ff didn’t mention needing a metal detector lol. I’m trying like heck to figure out CE5 – could be a lot, or a plot, or a plot that’s a lot of nothin!

          • inthechase, told you. I’m in over my head, and darnit all the water’s cold. wondering why my solve didn’t land me in the warm boiling/gardner river or hot pots at norris turn off.

    • Haven’t put too much thought into the usefulness of knowing CE5 meaning in order to find the chest but I have thought about what it could mean on the latch. How about a European CE mark? Maybe the chest came from European markets. It fits the dimensions of 5 millimeters minimum. If the chest was from Europe could this code have been etched. Why on an antique? Maybe the latch is newer and needed a CE code? Is the latch and key original to the chest from 1150 AD? Is the chest really from 1150AD or is it just Romanesque probably from 1150 AD?
      Hate to through out doubt but these are just questions that have thought about.
      A cost code sort-of fits into this thought process.

  65. Unless someone intended to melt the contents down and sell for scrap…or to hide forever….wouldn’t it be logical to assume one would need to either sell the items (thus revealing its discovery) or somehow get a transfer of title to claim its value and new ownership. (If it’s considered a misplaced or found object it’s still his legally until transfer) In either case I’d think the IRS would be a powerful influence in not keeping the secret. I always secretly thought itd be hysterical if the chest gave title to the land and then the treasure was spread all over the place haha (know it’s not the case, but would be quite funny)

  66. Thanks inthechase. I think we can dispell the GPS tracking or electronic device myth. I have kept quiet over the years on that concept because I did not have an alternate explanation.
    I helped design and develop such tracking devices for search and rescue and I can tell you that in 2009 and 2010 the technology had not advanced well enough to be a logical answer and even today the issue of battery life is a major issue especially if it is moist. If you get past that it would have to be concealed because any smart finder would simple disarm it. The mountains are famous for poor reception and thus you would likely need satellite reception and it is spotty in the mountains and will not work in a cave or rock covered enclosure. It the devive is in the bronze chest the signal would not escape if the lid is closed.

    For those reason I felt there was a more reliable method in play.
    The Wolf

      • Wolf, Wind, I’ve thought much the same w/respect to property adjacent the hidey spot. Not sure it’s about to be transfered, but would be perfect way to monitor.

        • 42 ,

          just keep in mind that the final hidey spot could be miles from where the poem leads you. Still in the Rockies North of SF however. But, nothing says the poem couldn’t lead you in MT or WY to a final clue that leads to a location in NM or CO.

          Oh, I forgot…this is supposed to be easy…so that would not be the case.

          Must get feet on the ground to be certain!

          • I’ve had a similar thought, Windsurfer. What if the treasure got carried downstream over time…so that’s where the treasure is now…downstream. I have a hard time believing that…but I’ve also been having a helluva time trying to find a treasure where I’m looking…although I still believe in my heart it’s there…somewhere.

  67. 42,
    Fenn is way ahead of us when it comes to simple google searches. This took a lot of research to find the answer. I will ensure I add it to the book. 😉
    The Wolf

    • Wolf, I’m a clueless kid today with thoughts reeling off the tip of my rod. There were also references in old, hard to read journals which correlated to Egyptian symbolism and Hebrew archaeology. I don’t know what if any would apply to my solve. about to clip the line and let the trout run for cover.

      Humility is an honorable quality but insecurity from past failures needs to be cut loose.
      Run from the crocs jaws
      little fishy >

      • He he that’s pretty funny Forrest on his IPad watching the spot on a webcam. The occasional antelope wandering through. @ Chad again 🙂 So Forrest holds the key and the finder has to get it? How could a person remove the box? 42 lbs can’t be carried by most that far of a distance. A person would have to remove the contents and carry the chest separately. Maybe if your that other party that got close you’d use an accomplice.

        He told me the box, which is just 10 inches by 10 inches, is unlocked—suggesting it’s someplace where it is unlikely to be toppled or otherwise thrown open.
        http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/03/03/clues-for-finding-forrest-fenn-s-buried-treasure-part-2.html

        • Wonderful information resource. I was unaware Forrest had stated the box was unlocked. One of my trains of thought on the matter was the box was locked and the finder had to contact Forrest to get the key. At which time Forrest would know the chest had been found. So now this leaves other possibilities to consider.

          Thank you so much for the link.

        • Being an ole marine I can still carry about 50 lbs in a rucksack on my back and I am nearing 60 yrs. For the prepared one trip is all it will take. 🙂

  68. The key thing is a hint, keystone state. Ok I’m out, got things to tend too. Good chatting. You know my methods, Watson. “To-to-to be, or not to-to-to be, that is the question.”

  69. Anyone – I wasn’t alive in the 30’s & 40’s when FF was a “tyke” nor do I know anything about Temple, TX … at that time. I do, however, find it most di-ff-icult to accept that where the Fenn family resided on Main St was in a farming community. On page 37 – FF stated that they butchered hogs, killed chickens, & churned butter. Supposedly they had a hen house (chicken barn), a cow, a pony, & ate meat only on Sundays. Can any of that actually be true?

  70. Some questions about the story Tea with Olga. I have seen some records for an Olga Svodoba that died at age 80 in 1969 in Santa Fe NM. , this would not quite fit the time line that is in the book, I guess there could be more than one person by that name. There is a reason this could be important, …. there are some people by that name, Svodoba, that are artist.

  71. I found another Olga Svodoba, but listed as from Agua Fria , NM. But it must be this one, died at age 62 in 1979. That fits the story better.

  72. Has anyone ever wondered why on page 32 of TTOTC book the picture at the top has 2 kids playing marbles and on page 33 the picture at the bottom 2 other kids were added to the same picture.

    • Not really, you can have fun photoshopping that pic on pg.33, maybe get a hint or two out of it, but that’s about it. You ever look closely at the marbles? Can also play with angles with that pic, but like I said, nothing on the lines of any OMG clues. That all comes from the poem, and only the poem. IMO.

  73. Hi Fellow Hunters,

    I’m wondering if anyone knows whether or not TTOTC was professionally edited. I seem to recall ff alluding to not having the book edited – purposely – during one of his interviews.

    Also, Dal, how do I purchase TFTW and ensure you make a few bucks off the sale? Do I just follow the links from this site? When I click on your link it takes me to the bookstores site, then PayPal. Will you get credit?

  74. OK I found the Ce5 And was so excited until I looked it up after researching it. I found that the man that put this together is way smarter then you or I, with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking#Rules_underlying_CE_marking the 5 may refer to stage 5, and then I searched the whole and found that MR Fenn said it will not help you find the treasure this made sense after I read the link above. Any way on to the next question Why would you not give MR Fenn his bracelet Back? There is no question, I would, It would be a honor to do so. And so would you is my guess! This has me buzzing with all the roads ones mind can travel without leaving this room. just because I have no clue where to start looking. I see things, and never understand them. My point is MR Fenn said it was going to be real work to figure this out and he has a head start. and so do many of you in my case.4 years in most cases. I do not think Forrest knew how much people would learn on this journey. And that is not even with the adventure of the wilderness. That’s right here at home. If his father as a teacher could only see how much Forrest has taught all involved, he would surely be more proud of him as back in the day when Forrest was providing supper for his family. I have been to the Periodic table with eyes to view what is not there believing that what is there can be found. if you know what I mean. My Mind is playing tricks on me, or is it? I almost replied to a 2013 post telling the guy I was so excited to get my book I checked the mail on Sunday. Who does that? ME! Brain fart in a monstrous way. Any Way To the subject of what I missed. The warm waters halt explained but not. MR Fenn would not want to put children in harms way. or you for that matter, He wants his bracelet back.The Canyon down, The home of brown, Beer is brown, Toast any one? To far to walk? No Paddle up your creek,heavy loads and water high,Wise and found the blaze? worth the cold and in the wood. That about wraps up everything I missed. and I guess if we must learn anything we must listen good. I;m Smiling, Mr Fenn’s Father is smiling down also and I believe he will remain doing so, no matter how many candles he has to burn at both ends. J B

    • JB, reading those old archives is a good way to find some gold . Golden nuggets of experience from people before you.

      Good luck JB!

    • Welcome to the chase Jeff. Here are a few tips from an old timer. All is my opinion so take it as that.

      You seem to be doing your own research which is a good thing……I believe the answer to solving the poem is here some where. Perhaps it will take a fresh set of eyes going over the material to unlock the poem. I wish we had this info available in the beginning; it would have saved some of us a lot of miles. Then again, every mile not taken is an adventure missed.

      Stop and take it all in on your trips……some folks drive right by some of the most spectacular landscapes on the planet blinded by gold fever. Nothing like the grandeur of the west to clear your head, who knows while looking over the majesty of Canyon Lands (it’s not in Utah) or other land mark might just clear your head enough to see the real solution.

      Gold fever and imagination does strange things to folks; keep your head on straight and have fun; hopefully with your friends and family.

      Good luck and good hunting.

  75. In the TTOTC book, why isn’t there any comments about the gallery photo with the portrait of a gypsy? Below and attached to Mr. Fenn’s leg is a hidden photo of a man in overalls. Who is he? You can tell it has been photoshoped in.

    • Oh!, I can see that also…Can’t make out who it might be but it appears it was placed there to hide something of which the edges show behind the photo, something made of wood?…Strange I’ll admit, but useful?…I doubt it myself…Good catch though… 🙂

  76. Hi Dal

    Do you know if the Old Santa Fe Trading Co website is still taking book orders? I ordered The Secrets of San Lazaro Pueblo back on the 6th. I’ve emailed the website twice. Once on April 14 and again on April 21 and got no response. Any ideas?

    • No worries the book arrived yesterday, although the post office banged it up some. Really neat book, I’m already fascinated by all the artifact pictures and stories…especially the mask story. Awesome book!!

      • Hello, Ed. I got my copy…I mean…my wife’s copy of The Secrets of San Lazaro Pueblo today. It was the gift she received from Jenny’s Easter Egg Contest.

        Thank you, Jenny. Thank you, Forrest. The book is incredible! I love books with lots of pictures! 🙂 And this book is full of amazing pictures. I’d recommend that people buy the book while they still can. They’re limited edition, and Forrest’s reputation is only destined to grow. It’s one of those woulda/coulda things…I reckon.

        Honestly. Cool book!

        • Hey JC congrats on winning the contest! Can I borrow your wife’s book? Just kidding I think I will finally break down and buy a copy… It does look really cool and now with your recommendation how can I pass it up…:)

  77. I have 1/2 the answer , you people have the rest , the more people that I can contact that has looked for it , the closer you will be to it, now it is only a mathematical equation !

  78. There must be a meaning to the opening poem in the book: Life is a game of poker… The part about the joker makes me wonder. I can’t help but be drawn to this definition of joker and others like it: an unexpected or final fact, factor, or condition that changes or reverses a situation or result completely.

    The fact that Forrest is able to say with certainty that the treasure has not been found confuses me. How could that be? Is it somehow tied in with the above definition of joker?

  79. Just a quick question. Does anyone know if all the editions of the TTOTC book are identical. I noticed my copy (5th printing) was printed after TFTW came out, as it’s listed as on of his other books on the back of the jacket.

    Mark

  80. Has it ever been discussed on here (the blog) about the drawing on page 25 in TTOTC and the close similarity to a Norman Rockwell painting called “The Facts of Life”? I have to give credit to another searcher who shared his own web site where I noticed he had a huge collection of rabbit holes. Anyhow, is this just another rabbit hole or is there some side research to be done with Rockwell paintings, dates, news or history, collections etc? And thanks to another NM searcher for reminding me about a possible origin of the epitaph on the French grave marker….more side research ad nauseum ad nauseam….lol!

    • Regarding the epitaph, it was composed by H.L. Mencken for himself, but was not applied to his grave marker. It actually read a bit differently:

      “If you should ever have thought of me
      When I have passed this vale,
      And wish to please my ghost,
      Forgive some sinner and wink your eye at a homely girl.”

    • ??? I need some help here….
      I´m on to something big here.
      I would buy the book myself, but i live in Europe and the Book costs 100 Dollar on Amazon.

    • Chrisz, Those pages would be 122 and 123, a two-page ‘photo album’ excerpt — with a curious tear at the bottom of the album leaf.

  81. TTOTC pages without numbers = 33

    5, 15, 18, 19, 22, 28, 30, 34, 36, 44, 46, 51, 52, 54, 58, 64, 68, 72, 77, 92, 93, 104, 107, 108, 114, 118, 120, 122, 123, 126, 134, 140, 144.

    Hope this helps, Chrisz.

  82. Mr. Fenn, several years back I found the mark of the Freemasons at one of the hint/clues. Still trying to see what I am looking at. I don’t think I will solve the poem in my lifetime. There is no human trail but yours.

  83. Can anyone explain how the book Too Far To Walk can have two ISBN numbers?

    too far to walk [Forrest Fenn, Suzanne Somers] on Amazon.com. … ISBN-10: 0967091799;

    ISBN-13: 978-0967091792; Product Dimensions: 16 x 11 x 2 inches; Shipping Weight: 4 pounds …

  84. Non sequiturs…. anomalies….. aberrations on the edge?

    Does anyone besides me feel that Fenn wrote the book with an intention to hide a hunt in it, but along the way the planting of clues got corrupted, or inconsistent, or constrained his story telling? So to overcome a ‘design deficiency’ he opted for a more direct skeletal poem?

    I have felt from my first reading through all subsequent ones that the hunt architect left a few moccasin prints in the dust. And since I try and back up my opinions with thoughtful evidence, I will say that I think the first one is in the first paragraph of the preface. A bold entry to his game, like a parking sign at a principal’s door. here it is:

    … Stir your spirit… a smile… a dream? Is this a little too much like like fairies dancing around a rock? Is he implying … a circle, a circle segment, and an enchantment?

    Maybe its a YSNP grand loop circle, or a caldron, a kettle, a basin. Do look for a window on the edge.

    Tee Hee, OS2. (nobody will find this here)

    • Hi OS2,

      I’ve had a similar curiosity about his book. Although, ff has said something to the effect “no intentional clues” were embedded in the book to aid the searcher, I have a number of questions myself.

      Take for example the photo of the “Main Street Cowboys” on page 43. I find it interesting the manner in which the names are written above the boys. My first curiosity is the name “Skip” over the second boy from the left. No place in this book, or any other reference I have either seen in video or heard in interview, has he mentioned his brother by the name “Skip”; it’s always been “Skippy”.

      The second is the notation of the boy Mr. Fenn wants us to believe is himself. Why does the picture not say Forrest? “me” is written. In all the photos in all the family albums I’ve ever seen the NAMES have been written above or below each person. Seeing “me” just seems odd.

      I began to tinker with the names. What is saw was interesting. If I substitute forrest for the name “me”, since it was not capitalized, skip the name “SKIP” as the word skip would instruct, remove all the capital letters I get the statement; “I’m at aul for rest obby.” Aul is defined as ‘a Caucasian mountain or desert settlement (as a village)’ and obby is defined as is the name given to the one kids in every group of friends that you keep around only to make fun of. No matter what you do, where you go, obby will find you and stand at your side whether you like it or not. There was an alternate reading I also entertained; “I’m at a ul (yule) forrest (forest), obby.”

      So my question became is this really a hint to the TTOTC quest, or not? If it is, it would violate his statement of no intentional clues. So I too began to wonder if there is some other adventure lurking, as you may be suggesting.

      Good luck in your search

      mh3

  85. Hi Howard, I compliment you on your search into this little used thread, and thank you for giving me something new to think about. On first reading, I found that photo interesting, but you have breathed a new look into it. I was intrigued by the unusual use of color in tiny places in the book, like the purple on the ID card inside the cover, etc. Those rare bits of color are very expensive printing effects. But the names …. thats a new angle. hmmm….

  86. All,

    I just recently visited Collected Works and purchased a fresh new copy of TTOTC and TFTW, I was curiously surprised to find the hard cover of TTOTC to now be a tan color.

    While I’m not as good as Wolf, Mindy and many others in putting my thoughts into words, I’ll do my best.

    Rereading the book again this weekend with a new set of eyes and adjusted ideas I began to noticed things I had not beforehand. One line in particular from the chapter “Surviving Myself” jumped out from the pages and slapped me squarely in the forehead. In this chapter, Forest gets revenge on his father for switching him by jumping out of his window and running down to the cemetery, and says “It took guts to go in there when it was dark with no moon”

    In my opinion this single line resonates with the following lines of the poem, “As I have gone alone in there”, “From there it is no place for the meek” “The end is ever drawing nigh” and “If you are brave and in the wood”. I don’t feel the need to go into great detail about proper grammar and word meanings, but as I have previously mentioned, to me “in there” represents a “place” that has a clearly identifiable boundary that can be found on a “good map”. A place that is no “place” for the “meek”, should offer one “seclusion”, long term protection, no legal issues with recovery, and lastly synonymous with the word “wood”.

    If you look at the history of the cemetery and what Forrest considers his “church” you may find this theory compelling.

    “Your destination is small, but its location is huge”

    Batten down the hatches folks, it is about to get real.

    LitterateOne

  87. At first I did not think the book was necessary to the solve. In fact I waited several month’s into my search before I bought a copy. Then out of misguided arrogance I kept it in the shrinkwrap for another couple of weeks.
    I wish I would have bought and read it sooner. The book has valuable insight and information regarding the Chase, and I can’t imagine anyone finding the chest without it.

    -Randawg.

    • Hi Randawg;

      Glad that you have found the book helpful.

      Forrest has said, “Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.” f.

      Seems like sound advice to me. JDA

    • Michael-
      Forrest intended that the original poem…which is different from the poem we have today…would be released when he ended his life. The original poem would have led the reader to the place where the treasure and Forrest could be found. That was long before TTOTC was written. Forrest was contemplating ending his life and taking his treasure chest with him in 1988. TTOTC was not written at that time and was not published until after he wrote the second poem…the poem we have today…in 2010.

      • Thanks Dal. I had been wondering if perhaps the first stanza could be interpreted as Forrest speaking to us from beyond the grave.

  88. It’s been noted that all letters but X are used in poem. It is the 24th letter.
    Omega is the 24th letter in the Greek alphabet.
    Could the ΩΩ in the back of the book mean XX (dos equis?)

  89. “What we’ve learned is that you should always tell the truth, but you should not always tell ALL of the truth.” Marvin to little f

    In the Moby Dickens video f answers a question about hints in his book. He says there are a couple of good hints and a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge. This was a perfect example of telling the truth but not all the truth. Sure there are a couple but IMO there are a lot more than a couple. IMO f peppered his stories with a lot of useful hints that confirm the clues in the poem.

  90. I’m amazed week by week at just how useful the TTOTC can be. IMO it is a virtual “gold mine” of hints. When f said this book wrote itself, I can imagine him smiling with each keystroke because it is probably the most enjoyable book that he has ever written. When the chest is found and the solution is made known, I can see many searchers slapping themselves silly. One of the best investments, IMO, is TTOTC.

  91. All,

    **This may get lost in moderation, but I feel compelled to post it either way**

    I had a bit of an epiphany this weekend, and not of one that will lead us closer to the treasure, but one that may provide us with a better understanding of, what I believe, may be one of Forrest’s overall messages of the chase.

    “Imagination is more important than knowlege”f

    Lets go back to the “Teachers with Ropes” chapter in TTOTC. I have pondered much on this chapter, as I’m sure you have, attempting to figure out the “subtle hint/clue” within this chapter, and in this I failed to receive the message, until now. Ask yourself this, what came first, imagination or knowledge? Is it not fair to say that without the imagination of Thomas Edison we would not have the light bulb, the phonograph or motion pictures? Just think for a moment about how those realized theories have effected all of our lives. The chapter appears to conveys the message that we must not touch, “DO NOT TOUCH” or as my father would often tell me “look with your eyes and not your hands”. And that we (teachers and parents) tend to “lasso” our children’s imagination in favor of force feeding them our societies set standards of accepted curriculum and by doing this we, do we not then hamstring the Thomas Edison’s of our future? Is this not why Forrest had the children close their eyes and touch George Washington, in what may have been an attempt to stir their imagination, to somehow transport them to that moment in time and place? Isn’t imagination, much like faith, the belief in things we cannot yet see, touch, smell, taste and feel and taste? So with all this said, I’m of the belief, that it is with our imagination, not any acquired knowledge, that we will discover the end of Forrest’s rainbow and the treasure.

    “The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean”f

    LitterateOne

  92. LiterateOne;

    Well said. I think that with the first line of Forrest’s new poem, he was telling the reader to use their imagination when reading it, more than just knowledge of how to read. Hidden within the words of the poem, I feel, were hidden several “hints” or “nudges” that can lead the right person to the actual resting place of the Treasure Chest. I could well be wrong, but I also felt that Forrest was saying to the world, please find it soon. He would like for it to be found in his (Forrest’s) lifetime, and he is not sure how long that will be. None of us know when we will die, but I am fearful that Forrest sees it not too far off in the future. I am hopeful that I am wrong. JDA

  93. JDA,

    Yes I agree with your thoughts on his recent poem, he is showing us through words his imagination. His ability to visualize things that aren’t there in the literal sense. I truly believe that Forrest is ambivalent about the treasure being found in his lifetime, because I believe that its purpose has been fulfilled.

    Also please forgive my errors in my above post, but I see you follow its meaning.

    LitterateOne

  94. Forrest may have figured out a way to exercise his original plan… it would certainly keep the legend alive. And so would a simple disappearance… ‘its where you make them think you are.’

    Finding the TC now would just be a flash-in-the-pan, soon a dusty old curiosity like a P.T.Barnham or Houdini trick. Fenn is after Rosetta Stone endurance. IMO

    • OS2;

      I disagree. The following quote from “My War For Me” seems to say just the opposite.
      If I cannot enrich those with whom I interact each day and cause them to be better for my having passed their view, then I have wasted my turn. That I succeed in this endeavor is not as important as it is for me to make a solid try. For if the try is sincere I have succeeded in whatever failure resulted … .So now, at least for me I know. And if no one should ever think of me when I have passed this vale, it will be of no consequence, for I have finally found my way and am at peace with it all.” f

      I do not think that Forrest is seeking fame, he is content with who he is, and how he will be remembered…if at all Just my opinion – JDA

      • JDA,

        Well put my friend, and if I may add: In the “Father on the Banco” chapter, recall what Marvin had told Forrest, and how that effected him. IMO since his recovery from cancer and the years thereafter, the purpose of the chase had transformed from one of “taking it with him” to one of “He Who Teaches a Child Labors With God in His Workshop”.

        So, it is possible, that while the treasure is the lure, what we gain from the chase is the treasure.

        “They do not know that it is the chase, and not the quarry, which they seek.” – Blaise Pascal

        LitterateOne

        • “They do not know that it is the chase, and not the quarry, which they seek.”–Blaise Pascal

          What a fun chase it has been!

  95. JDA, Motives arn’t mutually exclusive, there’s often a negotiation. Noble sentiments usually surrender to baser desires. Thats why you wish people ‘good luck” but don’t tell them your solve place. IMO, archeologists, historians & poets seem to take a long view of riches new & old. But, good luck to you.

    • OS2,

      Lets look at Forrest’s attempt to effect the future: his burying of bells, which may effect those possibly thousands of years from now, and maybe just a singular person in that. But his actions in creating this chase and its effects upon those involved in the present, will have a ripple effect that will far surpass anything that those bells will do in some undefined future time.

      So again I bring up the transformation of his initial idea to “take it with him” into that which his life experiences and recovery from cancer now gave us. This isn’t about a treasure in the mountains, it is more about a journey of discovering one’s self purpose, aka “My War for Me”

      LitterateOne

    • OS2;

      I just noticed your post. So I will now respond.

      The book is titled, “The Thrill of the Chase” – NOT “The Thrill of the Find.” Figuring it all out will be the most rewarding part of the Chase. I DO need the money though. Were I to advertise where I am searching would be self-defeating on both scores. Were I to say where I am searching, someone, probably brighter than I, will be able to solve it, and I will be robbed of that opportunity, at my own stupidity. I then would also lose the chance of owning the treasure.

      It is not greed, it is need. I and my family live modestly. Finding the TC will pay of mortgages, pay for college for grand kids and make life a LOT easier for 35 + members of my extended family….Plus Tess (my wife) and I hope to set up a foundation for those in life that have been less fortunate than have we.

      I DO wish others “Good Luck”. I wish YOU “Good Luck”.
      Luck to me, is earned, it is not something bestowed on someone from above. Point is, I do NOT wish you and other searchers “Bad Luck”. TRY to STAY SAFE, and Good Luck
      in what ever you seek to find in life. JDA

      • Please don’t be offended by this, but the things you posted do not sound at all like need. Sounds like want. Which is fine, pretty much everyone is here out of want and not need. I am sure that more than 90% of the searchers here live modestly. I understand that sharing your solve might let someone else figure it all out before you, but at the same time, you might not be smart enough to figure it out on your own, so by sticking your cards inside your vest, you may be giving yourself 0.01% chance to get ALL of the treasure versus say a 1% chance to get a share.

        • I do not see you offering up your solve.

          If I give up my location I give up ALL rights to whatever someone else may find. I try not to be egotistical, but I do have confidence that I do have what it takes to solve the riddles. How are you doing? Sounds to me like you are hoping for some help…sorry, I have given out as much as I feel is safe. Good luck in your trolling. JDA

          • You may be right. It MAY be want more than need. A couple of family members do fall into the need category though. and I do WANT to help them. JDA

          • jda, I have offered up my only complete solve and all the other areas of incomplete solves i have worked on. I’ve known about the chase for a little over 2 months, so maybe I am not as far along as others. Currently I am pondering the idea of no paddle up your creek and hlawh being abandoned beaver dams. Ironically, the map on the link below has some cascades at approx 10,200 feet that sit just downstream from the abandoned beaver dams.

            “Were I to say where I am searching, someone, probably brighter than I, will be able to solve it”

            -by the way, this implies that you do not have confidence you can solve it, despite numerous posts you made in the past presuming you had figured it all out.

            Someone who has searched the same area 10 times to no avail, should not be so arrogant to think they don’t need help.

            http://www.dougscottart.com/hobbies/waterfalls/columbinefalls.htm

            I find it ironic that you would accuse me of trolling, given many of your replies I have seen.

            You rarely contribute anything of value to the discussion. Most of your responses to questions posed by others is simply “not in my solve”, instead of explaining why you have a difference of opinion.

            Seems to me you are simply lurking about waiting for someone to help you out and shed some light on the clues you have yet to figure out.

          • Humble Pi;

            We are all entitled to our opinion. I HAVE figured the entire poem out. I am not waiting for any answers. Why 10 trips to my site. Several trips I met up with frozen stream or torrential waters. 4 months were wasted looking IN my waterway, instead of on its banks. A couple of months now waiting for spring.

            I have the utmost confidence in my solve. I was trying to not be egotistical when I said that were I to give away my location, someone brighter than I might solve it.

            You will learn soon enough that almost none of us searchers disclose ALL that we know.

            Good luck in your search – I hope that you find all that you seek. JDA

          • I think you mean almost none of you searchers share what you presume to know. Just curious if you shared your solve with f during prior years when you searched, and if so why he would have said 4 clues MAY have been solved.

          • JDA –

            “We are all entitled to our opinion. I HAVE figured the entire poem out. I am not waiting for any answers.”

            I’m going to have to sort of disagree with your statement JDA. IMO the poem is much different that what you are seeing. The reason I say this is because TTOTC does quite a number of good hints.

            I’m sure you’ve seen this stated before, but I think it bears repeating again. In the chapter title Important Literature, why would f tell us about For Whom The Bell Tolls and then describe A Farewell To Arms? To me that seems pretty important and the chapter also states it’s IMPORTANT Literature. Another quick example in the same chapter. Why would f say Borders one time and Border’s another time? There are many mistakes in TTOTC and it’s not just by coincidence or because f didn’t know what he was doing. F knew exactly what he was doing when he wrote TTOTC and TFTW. Other writings are also pretty important.

            Think of it like this. You are a trial lawyer. You are building a case and need cold hard evidence in order to move forward. I think you mentioned that you found 1 or possibly 2 hints in TTOTC. If I was a trial lawyer, I wouldn’t feel comfortable or confident with only 1 or 2 hints.

            I’m not saying this to be critical at all. You stated that you have family that have some needs that you want to assist with. If that is the case you might want to work on the poem and the books more before heading out. If you aren’t 99% certain with a lot of evidence to back it up, you might be better off taking the family on a picnic in ID. The fact that a lot of folks have spent quite a bit of money searching for Indulgence is very real and it might be wise to spend more time than money working on the poem until something clicks. Remember f said to look slowly for every little abstract thing that might catch up with your brain. There are a lot of them.

          • HumblePi;

            You state,”I think you mean almost none of you searchers share what you presume to know. ” No, I do not presume to know what I know. I KNOW what I know. What I KNOW might prove to be false, but I do know what I know. I KNOW what my solve is. I KNOW what the elements of my solve are. As I said, it is possible that at least one of these elements is wrong – only time will tell.

            Have I given my solve to Forrest? Yes, I have only been searching a bit over one year, but the answer is yes. Has Forrest responded, that is between Forrest and myself.

            HMA;

            Thanks for the advice. You rely heavily on hints in TTOTC and TFTW, I do not. Who is correct? Only time will tell. I, of course, am betting that I am correct. Your “hints” from important books leave me cold – do nothing for MY solve, but I MAY be wrong. Happy Hunting – JDA

          • JDA-

            “Thanks for the advice. You rely heavily on hints in TTOTC and TFTW, I do not. Who is correct? Only time will tell. I, of course, am betting that I am correct. Your “hints” from important books leave me cold – do nothing for MY solve, but I MAY be wrong. ”

            You’re welcome.

            I rely upon the poem first and then the writings and tools. The poem is critical and I think we can both agree upon that.

            Yes, time will tell. How many trips might you take to “your spot” before you want to be dealt a different hand?

          • HMA;

            No poker player wins the tournament with only one hand. Some times, the winner is the guy that plays slow and methodical, hand by hand. Learning the cards, the other [players, and the room.

            I am not yet ready to cash in my chips. I still have plenty of ante’s.

            Maybe the last hand is being dealt now – We shall see. JDA

          • JDA –

            “I am not yet ready to cash in my chips. I still have plenty of ante’s.”

            Good for you. I still think you are better at Canasta compared to Poker but time will tell.

            You might go back and read some of Brett’s comments on F Gets Mail 11. For a newbie to the chase, he offered some really good advice.

        • not so humble pie,
          Why are you beating up on the sculptor? Is this how you treat Idahoans?
          You can get more bees with honey, besides I may need him to go do a search or 3 for me. JD I hope those 30 some-odd relations of yours let you indulge your fantasy a while longer.

          • Always happy to help if I can. Winters are hard. Enthusiasm says go, common sense says stay. Spring WILL come I know, but DARN, does it have to take so long?

            Humble Pi will have to eat his Humble Pie, like the rest of us in time. I am cutting him a slice as we speak. I will keep it in the fridge waiting for the right time to serve it. I have eaten my share, and may eat another slice or two before it is all over. JDA

          • JDA-

            If I am going to be eating humble pie, I presume you mean because you will find the chest when you go out this spring. Just wondering if you don’t find it, if you are going to warm it up for yourself. If you don’t find it this time, maybe your ego will be bruised up enough to move on to another location, but I am betting you are too stubborn. You will ride home empty handed, convince yourself you just missed something, and plot your 13th trip to the same wrong place.

          • Just happened upon this today… Wow, Cold pie is harsh digesting.
            I hear ya, JDA. I never thought health care should rely on raffles and gp-fund-me sites. And industrial age grand-dads gave us free high school, but now its a digital age. Time to pay it forward.

          • My, My HumblePi, aren’t you the “Mr. know it all.”

            you say, “. You will ride home empty handed, convince yourself you just missed something, and plot your 13th trip to the same wrong place.” What makes you KNOW that I will ride home empty handed? Who gave you the inside information? You know absolutely NOTHING about my solve, and yet you criticize it. What an ego you have! Were I you, which I am glad that I am not, I would engage my brain a bit more before engaging my mouth and expounding on things that you know absolutely nothing about.

            Who was it that said something to the effect of – It is better to let people think that you are a fool, than to open your mouth and let them know it. Just sayin’ JDA

          • JDA- Just curious if you know what they call it when you keep doing the same thing and expecting different results JDA. My proclamation that you will again ride home empty handed is based on your own admitted history, as well as the combined history of all other searchers to date. I have a much greater chance in being right saying you won’t find the treasure than you do of saying you will. You proclaim me to be a know-it-all and yet claim to know more including the answers to ALL the clues. As for me expounding on things I know nothing about… I know you admittedly have been unsuccessful on 10 attempts to the same area, so my proclamations aren’t with out ample supporting fact typed by your own hand.

            I’ll tell you what, you post the day before you leave on your search and when you will return. Upon your return, if you have found the treasure, I will gladly donate $1,000 to your charity you will set up. However, if you drive home empty handed, you share your entire solve on the blogs, and start anew.

          • HP;

            You are using good logic, but flawed data. You have no idea why it has taken me ten trips, and netted zero. You have no idea what I have learned during those ten trips. I assure you, I have learned a lot.

            Will I accept your bet? NO. IF I do not find it, but I am quite sure I will, the question will be did I learn anything on trip #11?

            Yes I know that doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results = insanity. The problem is, I have been going to the same general area, but each time I have done something different. I have NEVER done exactly the same thing on different trips. I have adjusted, I have learned, I have modified.

            Will it take just one more trip, or two, or three? I am not sure. You will just have to wait and see.

            Rest assured, I will know when it is time to cash in my chips, and YES, when I do I will publish my solve. JDA

          • JD,
            I think this guy is your #1 fan. Humble, if you are so infatuated with the sculptor, why don’t you simply read back thru the many months worth of comments, find where he posted his email and assault him directly….
            BTW, wonder why you aren’t obsessing over Iron”s braggadocio?

  96. this may seem a little rubber roomish to some. the book ttotc is a memoir, musings of events throughout forrests life, his journey if you will, from beginning to end. it is often said we begin this life the same way we end it, cold ,scared and alone. i believe this is the meaning of the double omegas and his comment about starting a journey only to find yourself right back where you started. it is now my opinion that his poem is not a map to physical gold. the book was forrests journey he shared with us, the poem is every-ones journey through life from beginning to end.

  97. I haven’t noticed what I’m about to mention on any blogs that I remember. On page 135 of TTOTC ff asks “Someday, will all of the land in New Mexico be covered with houses and asphalt?” Then “…what will people do for fresh air fun?” Then “…maybe there won’t be room for a lot of things we enjoy doing today, like hunting and hiking and looking across the desert…” Does anyone else think it’s odd he didn’t mention fishing? We all know he fished in New Mexico as well as Montana. Just wondering…thoughts?

    • Being a long time resident of NM (30+ years), I share FF’s sentiment of a “beautiful place” being changed by the natural progression of human development. I’m not a fan of this progression, but sadly (or ironically) I am a part of it.

      I too have many fishing memories in NM (22″ trout below the Cochiti Dam on 4 lb test. fishing line, circa 1986)

      However, our fishing memories are not “everything”. Just as FF’s fishing memories are not the end all to wear all. Yeah, he loved [trout] fishing in his youth, but his youth was not his entire life.

      So the fact that he did not mention “fishing”, is not necessarily important.

      All of the above text is in my opinion, and not based on fact!

      –Jim

  98. Many searchers argue that since Forrest wasn’t the illustrator, there cannot be any hints in the drawings of TTOTC. This seems like fairly sound logic, given how difficult it would be to give instructions to the illustrator without tipping him off and thus giving him an advantage over everyone. But what if Forrest made minor edits to some of the illustrations?

    Consider the much-discussed axe man illustration on page 146. Take a close look at the stumps. The two largest stumps on the left and the one on the far right are identical, except for scale. Similarly, the leftmost stump on the horizon is mirror-imaged on the horizon to the axe man’s right. Same goes for the stump on the right closest to his boot. What I’m proposing is that Forrest added these duplicates himself so that the stump total would be 23 — the same as the block number of his mother and father’s gravesite at Hillcrest Cemetery.

    So what is the meaning of 23 as a hint? Clearly not very actionable on its own. But if your solution involves a prominent 23 associated with one of the clues, you’d have to say this would be a clever way to give a searcher some confidence they weren’t barking up the wrong tree. It would also tell that searcher that they shouldn’t assume all the illustrations are just pretty pictures.

    • Zap, OK I read this like ya asked me to. SO, no throwing rocks to my reply…lol… I’m gonna quote fenn again.

      Chicago radio WGN interview, March 2013: http://lummifilm.com/blog/WGN2013.mp3
      Minute 10:45, Q: Does the book give me any more information than I would get from the poem?
      A: “There are some subtle hints in the text of the book that will help you with the clues.  The poem will take you to the chest but the book by itself won’t.” f

      How do we get around ~ ‘There are some subtle hints **in the text of the book** that will help you with the clues…?
      He as also stated that the hints in the book were not deliberately placed… I would think changing the illustration to be completely deliberate, as to its placement. There are also pictures of coins that are manipulated as well [ and discussed over the years ]. So where does that leave us?

      Fenn has also stated In an interview T&E OH.
      Q; Does somebody need to read your book to find the treasure or does all the clues exist within the poem?
      A; They don’t need to read my book, but they need to read the poem. The book will help them, but, they can find the treasure if they can decipher the clue that are in the poem.

      You may think I place these quote up to dig at an others theory… But in actuality, I put them up as; points of arguments and discussion purpose.[only the whiners enjoy crying about them]. I think, many use so much of the after the fact comments it becomes more confusing to know what is and is not usable or even correct. BUT I’m all ears if you can explain different… yes, an explanation is needed to the theory, we’re not mind readers. Otherwise it just becomes the same old same old… I know this or that…

      Fenn has mentioned, the book as a good reference to use and suggested GE and maps as useful tools… I look at the above comments doing/saying exactly the same. I personally don’t think there is [ I’m going to word this slightly different than I normally do ] ‘usable hints or clues to solve the poem’ in the after the fact comments… but information that can help us… not unlike the comments and Q&A’s above. I think they are meant simply to say over and over again… go back to the poem. *** { IMO }** there is not enough imagination used on the poem, yet a lot of misused-imagination on everything else.

      Remember you asked…lol. Although now I see what HMA meant… what did he call me?

      • After 7 years, it seems like the books are on par with the poem as far as helpfulness or hin(t)drance goes. If they were that helpful, the treasure chest would have been found by now. Count all your pages to make sure that the page with the subtle hints isn’t stuck to another page. IMHO, of course.

    • Hi Seeker — thanks for your reply. Okay, let me address your points in order:

      “How do we get around ~ ‘There are some subtle hints **in the text of the book** that will help you with the clues…?”

      Answer: it’s the truth — just not the whole truth. That statement does not preclude their being subtle hints in the illustrations.

      “He as also stated that the hints in the book were not deliberately placed… I would think changing the illustration to be completely deliberate, as to its placement.”

      Answer: Since you are a stickler for the quotes, don’t cut them off too early: “…are not deliberately placed *to aid the seeker*.” At the risk of repeating myself, none of the hints in the book help you *solve* clues, so I think Forrest has a pretty solid loophole there.

      Your next point:

      “Q; Does somebody need to read your book to find the treasure or does all the clues exist within the poem?
      A; They don’t need to read my book, but they need to read the poem. The book will help them, but, they can find the treasure if they can decipher the clue that are in the poem.”

      None of this is in conflict with the theory that some of the illustrations may contain hints.

      So you didn’t address the evidence I presented (other than the reference to the manipulated coins image). This isn’t a photograph; it’s an illustration ~primarily, and perhaps wholly~ drawn by someone other than Forrest. Do you believe it’s possible Forrest doctored the illustration as I described? Would you agree that even if he did, the 23 is not helpful to you, and thus (in this case) would quite literally not aid the “Seeker”?

      • Zap,
        “Answer: it’s the truth — just not the whole truth.”
        Can I prove it either way? no… but this comment is used ever time a quote does not help a person’s theory. This say to me the Answer in the Q&A is an out right lie, or deliberately misleading.
        I will say basically the same about the ‘…not to aid a seeker.’ Here we are again with the truth but not the whole truth…I mean, why bother asking the man anything if this is truly the case.
        With that philosophy we can say the poem is only 85% truthful… BUT that thought, is how you can get around the conflicting Q&A’s to have the illustration work as hints or clues.

        And, I did address the evidence of illustration being hints… “How do we get around ~ ‘There are some subtle hints **in the text of the book** that will help you with the clues…?” IMO you can’t. I even mentioned the comment about not having to read the book… it’s all about the need to read the poem… the book is helpful, holds “subtle” hints and a good reference to use, ‘maybe’ the only “reference” needed.

        Fenn mentions the book as those above, but never states the book as needed… thus far anyways… only that a little bit of something is better then nothing. You have illustrations “changed deliberately”… that’s not subtle at all. You would think the illustrator of the original drawings would know the difference once the book was made public…maybe even prior… that would be a huge advantage. He could easily come out ans say so if it’s is at all true, right?

        I can only go by what fenn stated in the direct questionings. Anything else is pure speculation or even hopeful thinking at best.

        • Seeker –

          “I can only go by what fenn stated in the direct questionings. Anything else is pure speculation or even hopeful thinking at best.”

          I agree with Zap that the drawing with the stumps is very interesting. Considering how you like to consider almost everything, why wouldn’t you at least put that in your *maybe* helpful category?

          For the lack of a better term, f has stumped a lot of searchers on this chase! 🙂 Wink, wink.

      • Hi Seeker — in my opinion, you place a lot of dependence on your interpretations of the things that Forrest has said and written. Would it be fair to say that you will be disappointed if it turns out that Forrest did put deliberate hints in the illustrations and the Scrapbooks?

        “And, I did address the evidence of illustration being hints… ”

        Not really. You didn’t explain why an illustrator would go to all the trouble of duplicating stumps and mirror-imaging them when he could just draw them about ten times faster — honestly, a stump is a stump. Duplication by the illustrator is illogical. My theory makes some sense out of this oddity.

        “You have illustrations “changed deliberately”… that’s not subtle at all.”

        Well, did *you* notice it? I say it’s subtle, after all what in the world does 23 stumps tell you?

        “You would think the illustrator of the original drawings would know the difference once the book was made public…maybe even prior… that would be a huge advantage.”

        This is the first good argument you’ve made. And maybe he did notice. But notice that it doesn’t help him any more than anyone else because if 23 is a hint, he wouldn’t know the significance until he had solved the associated clue in the poem. That would be the beauty of this arrangement: if you haven’t solved the poem correctly, the book is just a source of endless rabbit holes limited only by ones imagination.

        • Zap –

          May I add that the 23 stumps and the other times the illustrator used mirror images and resized images have been discussed for many years.

          Maybe you know that .

          Lugnutz

        • Hi Lugnutz — I wasn’t around prior to 2015, so I’m still playing catch-up on all the posts that occurred years ago (though I’ve read over 100,000 of them). It does not surprise me that someone would have noted the mirrored or resized stumps — they’re pretty obvious. The question is, did anyone offer up an explanation for why the illustrator would do this? And if they did, does it make more sense than my theory?

          • It was discussed and then went away like everything else we discuss.

            It’s a mystery.

            Lugnutz

          • Allen Polt told me, he was so rushed he used copies of public domain art work to meet the deadlines, and he does not believe that from Forrests brief instructions that there are any additional clues in his drawings.

          • Hi Musstag,

            “Allen Polt told me, he was so rushed he used copies of public domain art work to meet the deadlines, and he does not believe that from Forrests brief instructions that there are any additional clues in his drawings.”

            I guess the question is, does Allen know for sure that Forrest didn’t make minor changes to his illustrations after he was done? Does he have originals of the pre-production artwork to compare with the final product? I’m betting he hasn’t done such a comparison, or perhaps at this point doesn’t even have the ability to do so.

            I’m confident there are hints in some of the illustrations — and some of them I believe are blatant. So if that’s true, either Forrest’s instructions to Allen were rather specific (though possibly benign-sounding to Allen), or Forrest doctored some of the illustrations after Allen was done.

          • Or Zap –

            Your incorrect, there are no hints in the illustration and if your TC is based on the false info then you may be in the wrong state.

            Does your solve change if know definitively that there are no hints in illustrations?

            I’ll be in The Sangres in May and I probably won’t see you unless you have an Epiphone.

            Lugnutz

          • Zaphod ~ “I’m confident there are hints in some of the illustrations — and some of them I believe are blatant…”

            Chicago radio WGN interview, March 2013: http://lummifilm.com/blog/WGN2013.mp3
            Minute 10:45, Q: Does the book give me any more information than I would get from the poem?
            A: “There are some subtle hints in the **text** of the book that will help you with the clues.  The poem will take you to the chest but the book by itself won’t.” f

            I guess if you think, That a “couple aberration” refers to illustrations, fenn stated in the “text”

            I don’t know how much you’re relying on your solve with the illustrations… but I would think twice about them.

          • Seeker – you’re re-covering old ground. Your idea of what constitutes a hint is not the same as mine, and as a consequence the WGN interview quote is not problematic for me:

            A: “There are some subtle hints in the **text** of the book that will help you with the clues. …”

            By your highlighting “text”, you are implying that that’s the ONLY place that there are subtle hints. You are reading something into this quote that Forrest never said. Take a cue from Forrest: that he could be telling the truth, just not the whole truth. If you didn’t want to reveal anything about the illustrations, and you didn’t want to lie, how would you have answered?

            “…The poem will take you to the chest but the book by itself won’t.”

            Again, I completely agree. You have arbitrarily decided that a hint must help you SOLVE a clue. “Helping” you with a clue can mean other things besides helping you solve one.

            I think the “hints” in TTOTC, and TFTW, and the Scrapbooks and Vignettes are more like Easter Eggs. To recognize them, you would have to have already solved the clue that goes with them. They don’t work the other way around because the hints are one-to-many, not one-to-one.
            You can’t use the book (sans poem) to solve clues. Clue-solving comes strictly from the poem and maps.

          • LOL, I just love it when the author of the book and poem states something direct, like; “…In the text of the book…” and some of you guys use the excuse fenn is only telling us 85% of the truth and lies the rest of the time.
            Man! That is becoming the biggest cop-out… Just like, don’t bother looking up words in the poem like fenn stated he did…That can be the whole truth either, right? It doesn’t work in your brilliant solve, right.

            Maybe we could have a new Topic Thread…
            Fennish vs. bullchips

            Spring is gonna be a blast this year… The over confident winter stored methane is about to hit the proverbial fan.

          • Says the man who has never put BOTG and has no clue how the poem works. Best of luck to you Seeker, but I don’t think you’d believe the solution if Forrest gave it to you.

          • Lugnutz, in the extremely unlikely event that there are zero hints in the illustrations (and I will bet Seeker a case of grape nehi that he’s wrong about this), it still makes absolutely no difference to my solution because it was derived solely from the poem.

          • Ok Zap –

            Then why are you arguing against what the artist said. What’s the point in doing so if you don’t need the illustration for your solve?

            After the treasure is found I so hope everyone will come back and reveal their solves.

            I will look forward to reading what lead you to believe the TC was in Montana.

            Lugnutz

          • Seeker – I can vouch that there are some hints in the illustrations of TTOTC. As Zap has stated so many times before, the hints won’t mean anything unless you have solved the associated clue.

            IMO you’re mouth will drop to the floor when you find out just how many hints f has shared.

            Forrest readily admits to some embellishment but for the most the hints are factual and blend in so you can’t spot them without doing the work of solving a clue. Forrest created a system that requires you to do the work and if you’ve done the work correctly, you will move with confidence.

          • HMA –

            As Jake pointed out to Zap a long time ago. It makes no sense to have to solve the clue and then go back and find the hint or hints.

            You don’t need any hint if you have solved the clue. Solving the clue is the goal.

            I’m speaking an opinion that’s based in logic.

            Lugnutz

          • Hi Lugnutz — my only reason for arguing about what the illustrator said is that a few of the illustrations have remarkable tie-ins with my solution. Confirmation bias perhaps. But if presented to you I think you’d say no way it’s a coincidence for some of them because they are so specific. What we don’t know is how much guidance Forrest gave the illustrator about the drawings he wanted, nor do we know for sure that Forrest didn’t “touch up” some of the illustrations afterward. I provided a plausible scenario for the axeman illustration where Forrest could have added a few stumps to bring the total up to 23, and the illustrator might not have been the wiser. I have theories for similar minor edits to other illustrations, but I don’t want to draw attention to them.

            I’m not sure why there is so much push-back on the possibility that some illustrations might provide hints. Certainly hundreds of searchers over the years have thought there were hints in the illustrations or the pictures, so it’s hardly a renegade idea.

          • Zap –

            You said it. It’s confirmation bias.

            Also, as I noted to another searcher recently, yes it’s coincidence. It’s the definition of coincidence.

            Example –
            At a ski resort in NM the ski runs share names with things Forrest has said. Rainbow’s End is one. If you like an HoB there you say wow that can’t be a coincidence.

            It’s a coincidence.

            You could share yours and we can tell you if it’s coincidence.

            Lugnutz

          • HMA,
            I’ll put you on the spot… and feel free to do the same for me. [I’ll explain how I can read stanza 1 and 2 as related to time, by the choice of words and their meanings and usages fenn used in the poem.] No book needed. Then we can have others on the blog debate it out… that is a discussion I think others would like to join in on.

            You said ~ “IMO you’re mouth will drop to the floor when you find out just how many hints f has shared.”

            If there are so many hints… give us a workable hint to the poem. I mean, something we can actually sink are teeth into and see how you say it works.

            Cuz I’m confused to what you say that, hints confirm, when fenn says hints help with the clues and the clue lead to the treasure.
            Your comment seems completely backwards as saying solve the clue and then look for the hints… why bother looking for hints? Just go get the chest if you have the clue deciphered.

            Seriously… Laurel n Hardy’s, who’s on first, makes more sense than your and Zap’s explanations on how you’re solving the poem… Clues first Hints second.
            IMO, that method can give any solve to be the hopeful correct solve… you hope you have a clue correct, and go to the book and find something to match what you hope is a clue… talk about confirmation bias.

            So, do you want to play?

          • Seeker –

            I don’t think HMA is going to share one of his many hints and risk learning that it makes no sense.

            I don’t plan on dropping my jaw to the floor.

            Lugnutz

          • I’m siding more with Zap and HMA here on this argument.

            Hints aren’t necessary, but they are valuable to keep an eye out for. It’s great if you can figure out the clues and get a solve from the poem and maps alone, but noticing hints that also tie in to your clues and solve adds confidence. If hints weren’t at least marginally important, then why does Forrest bother to mention that there are any at all?

            From what I have read, there are chasers who travel to the Rockies from both coasts and even from overseas. I’m sure those people appreciate the opportunity to have a few extra little “winks” from Forrest in addition to the poem to give them the confidence to buy a plane ticket and spend the time to search their solve areas.

            From the Forrest’s quotes, I don’t see anything that would cause complete dismissal of possible hints in the illustrations (or photos for that matter) in the book. He said that there were hints in the text, but that doesn’t shoot down Zap’s hypothesis in my opinion.

            And Seeker, come on! The “Who’s on First?” routine is Abbot & Costello, not Laurel & Hardy! Now we all need to watch it again, because it is still one of the awesomest bits ever written:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRRaXV-fg

          • Talk about exercises in futility. I know I have gotten into some pretty lengthy discussions with HMA and Seeler ( a ways back) that others probably felt that were a waste of time, but this one takes the cake. (To me at least)

            Who cares if someone finds, or does not find that there are hints in the PIC’s and/or illustrations of TTOTC or TFTW? Who cares if finding the “hint” came before or after the clue was found? Until the TC is found by any of you guys,, your arguments are nothing more than hot air – at least to me.

            In my solve, I bring attention to a couple of PIC’s and a couple of Illustrations. Which came first the PIC or illustration or the solving of the clue?

            I MAY have seen a PIC or Illustration when I read the book. It was in my subconcious. When I saw something in reality – let’s say the blaze, something “clicked” and I said “That’s the blaze”. Would I have recognized the blaze had I never read the book – probably, but since it’s image was in my subconcious, I recognized it immediately as THE blaze. Make sense? It does to me. If I do NOT find the TC, what difference does it make that I see a connection? NADA.

            If I DO find the blaze, it will help make a nice story about how I made the connection…Until then, WHO CARES?
            JDA

          • Hi Lugnutz — okay, I’ve come to the conclusion that JDA is right — that this is an utter waste of time. So this will be my last comment on the subject. You, Seeker, Jake and others think that “hints” must precede “clues,” otherwise they’re useless. You say that you don’t need a hint if you’ve solved the clue, but you’re not addressing a key question: How would you KNOW you had solved a clue?

            People have been thinking they’ve solved clues for years now, and all but a few of them are wrong. Think about how many people believe WWWH is some specific hot or warm spring. Have they SOLVED a clue? No. They just think they have. So you have a hundred searchers starting at a hundred different warm springs in all four states, all confident that they have figured out the one, true, correct WWWH. Yet by definition at least 99 of them are wrong (and I would say all 100 are, but that’s another subject). But suppose one of the warm springs was Elephant Warm Spring, and lo and behold in TTOTC there was a family picture of the Fenn’s in Temple and you could see June clutching a stuffed elephant (there isn’t, of course — I’m just giving an example). If you were reading the book and came across such a picture, you’d think nothing of it. Just a nice picture of the family. But for the searcher at Elephant Warm Spring, that picture suddenly takes on new meaning.

            Now, you want to call this confirmation bias, and you could be right. So how would Forrest help you differentiate a hint from confirmation bias? By repeating it. How about if the hint is repeated dozens of times? Does that start to tickle your interest?

            Like I said, this is my last comment on the subject to you and Seeker because the horse has long since been beaten to death. So you and Seeker are welcome to have the last word.

          • Well he wouldn’t want to differentiate because he wouldn’t give a hint outside of the books.

            He said couple in the first book and one in the second. I believe He said there’s nothing in the scrapbooks images etc.

            Just come back after your search and tell us about it.

            My flight is horribly delayed which is why I’m reading these and continuing to comment.

            Lugnutz

          • Blex…lol
            I was wondering how long it would take for someone to see that.
            And all this time I thought nobody read my post…

          • JDA –

            “In my solve, I bring attention to a couple of PIC’s and a couple of Illustrations. Which came first the PIC or illustration or the solving of the clue?”

            I just found another hint for you since you are into dictionaries. Do you remember the recent comment by Forrest that in part said “marry them to places on a map.”? Possibly a hint for Merriam-Webster dictionary? I don’t think so but possibly a hint for your solution. One never knows for certain until the chest is found.

          • Lug –

            “Well he wouldn’t want to differentiate because he wouldn’t give a hint outside of the books.”

            He most certainly has given hints in things outside the books.

            “He said couple in the first book and one in the second. I believe He said there’s nothing in the scrapbooks images etc.”

            I’m going to make one last attempt to explain how logical it is that f has been sharing hints and that your statement directly above is wrong. You seem to take Forrest at his word. No room for anything other than what he has stated. He was not being dishonest when he said a couple of good hints in the book, nor was he telling the whole truth.
            Example A: As an example you ask me how many spoons I have. I tell you I have a couple. In reality I have 25 spoons. I didn’t lie to you when I told you I had a couple. I told the truth but not the whole truth. Didn’t our teacher tell us that at a young age his father told him to always tell the truth but not always the whole truth? We could use many different things as examples to illustrate the point. You may still want to be rigid and believe that a couple of good hints is all that the book contains. That’s your choice.
            Example B: You seem to think Forrest would not share hints outside the book and that the blogs are only for entertainment. Forrest did say to read the blogs for entertainment. You are certainly welcome to do that but another option is to read the blogs for entertainment and hints. Again notice that he didn’t lie to us and he didn’t tell the whole truth. You can do both.

            Forrest has told us over and over to “think” and that his book is enough to lead the average person to the treasure. Does it hurt to think and use logic to consider that some of the things f has told us are true but not the whole truth. If you stick to only the exact wording of what f tells us, you will not have any chance of solving the poem.

            I’m not sure luck will even help you at this point Lug, but if you remain a little more open to the possibilities, you might be surprised at what the teacher has done.

          • “The fish trap exists because of the fish. Once you’ve gotten the fish you can forget the trap. The rabbit snare exists because of the rabbit. Once you’ve gotten the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words exist because of meaning. Once you’ve gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words so I can talk with him?”

        • HMA;

          I thought that we had agreed that since we each have solved the poem, neither of us needs any assistance from the other – but thanks anyway. JDA

          • JDA – Sorry JDA. My bad. I thought if that statement was a hint to dictionaries and I shared it with you that possibly you might share a gold coin from the treasure chest with me after finding it.

  99. Sorry to butt in guys, but well here I am. I think you are both right. The drawings/illustrations I haven’t found any hints, but the photos/pictures yes. It’s pretty obvious what has been manipulated. That is the TTOTC, now for TFTW, the map is an illustration and holds a hint. Just the fact he said the chest is within the maps area is a hint of it’s location. Of course he never said TFTW’s illustrations wouldn’t help. All in all, I think it’s f having some fun. The photos are different, they can help with the overall, but that’s not what you asked.

    As far as the after comments, I see them as important and not something to just pass on. But not all of them, it’s up to the individual I guess. Example: “nailed down” or “walking far may be walking too far”, these need to be addressed in one’s solve. But like Seeker says, it’s info that can help us. Example, my WWWH is a hardware store. His after comment gives me some form of confirmation, added with saltpeter comment and some others, I feel pretty confident, but they do not help in solving that first clue. And, like Zap said, none of the hints in the book help you solve the clues, I agree. So, to both your points, you both are right.

    But the topic was the illustrations, and that’s a tough one Zap. Like page 8, f signing books, clearly the sandal near the horse could be a hint to mode of travel, bit it’s a photo. I’ve done almost everything to the illustrations, folded, doubled over, lines connecting stars for angles, paper airplanes, counted objects, I just see f having fun.

    With all that said, I do have 23 a couple times, and the coins as a good hint, go figure. Everything always ends up back to the poem. Maybe the topic or question should be, is confirmation info of a clue a hint? Whether that be a picture, illustration, after thought, whatever. You have to know f cannot just sit ideally by, it’s probably eating at him to just come up with more stuff to confuse us with, that’s his fun. He can then say, I tried to tell you. Always that plausible deniability or fact beyond a reasonable doubt.

    • Charlie;

      While you are here, my 74 years are catching up with me…
      What was our bet, and what were the parameters? Thanks

      A case of Nehi if I do not find it by when? JDA

      • Case of Nehi to whoever finds it. You have until your physical body is no longer here. (Sense your mental body has left long ago, lol). I would be happy to buy you a case, even after I find the chest…Maybe even throw in a coin or two…

        • ohh yeah JDA, you have to May actually, when I go out. Montana is too cold for these 50 year old bones right now. It’s much warmer in so.cal right now, only around 40-45. Hey, that’s freaking cold to us. Just not that “ear splitting/painful” cold like Montana.

        • Thanks Charlie.- I bet someone else then with a “by” date – case of booze I think. This memory stuff when you get old sucks – Yes Jake, I remember our bet – JDA

    • “Example, my WWWH is a hardware store.”
      ———————————————————
      Charlie, is this just a theoretical “example” you are using to make a point, or are you saying that a certain hardware store is WWWH in your working solution”?

      • Ken, actually, WWWH could be a couple things. I use the hardware store in Anaconda because it fits all he has said. It’s on Front and Main st. Built by Robert “Nickel”, was once a train station for the BA&P railroad, entrance has two arches, near Warm Spring Creek, and of course it’s now a hardware store. So that nails it. It’s not a guess, it’s from my way of solving poem, getting a spot, seeing the path to get there, and a starting spot.

        Actually, the whole Deer valley could really be considered WWWH. It’s dorment but part of the Yellowstone geyser system, it goes with his “saltpeter” reference, and it’s a place that may be “deer” to him.(dear). I’ve also found “Epsom” in that line of the poem. But, if you were to ask me where warm waters halt, I would say Anaconda Montana. Begin at the hardware store then take veterans highway to Evergreen st. Take a left to the end of the street to the church and enter the gate to Fifer Gulch( road less travelled, canyon down, sagebrush, etc…) 3rd clue is inside the tree line. No motorized vehicles, walk a long distance. The Wyoming med wheel points the way if you know dr. Eddy’s diagrams. Just draw a tangent, in the middle, through the 24th spoke. (Which is at 22 degrees, the rainbow(rainbow halo))

  100. I like the fact that many searchers have explored so many avenues and put tons of hours into all sorts of theories while trying to solve Fenn’s poem. It truly shows the lengths that folks will go to come up with something viable. I have to admit going pretty far down some fairly deep gopher holes myself. Zap has obviously taken all of this really serious and has come up with some elaborate ideas that have convinced him that he is on the right track. Haven’t we all ? Only Fenn knows for sure how to get the correct clues lined up to lead the way to the end of his rainbow. I remember stumbling around my original search area like a stark raving lunatic just knowing it had to be the correct spot. After three failed attempts I broke down and bought TTOTC and discovered my precious area wasn’t even on the map. It was close to being on the map…but that doesn’t count. My point here…is that there is a ton of info. out there about Fenn’s Chase. For me to remain dedicated to having fun and using this really cool opportunity that has been offered…I have to stay separated from fixating on how right I may or may not be about the paths I go down. I keep telling myself that the guy/gal from Texas with a pick up truck and a bedroll…prolly isn’t going to rely on anything too extravagant or complex to find out where Fenn hid that Gosh darned Bronze box….

  101. Can anyone tell me if the double omega at the back of the book is only at the end of TTOTC and TFTW or is it included in all of his books? Thanks, all. First time poster, long time lurker. 🙂

  102. Ok, here’s a topic that I haven’t found anyone discussing on this site up to this point (as far as I can tell): In the chapter “Tea with Olga” does anyone find significance to the three different colors of tea that Forrest drinks with Olga? First, they drink red tea, then black tea, and finally Forrest dreams of Olga drinking green tea with her father.

    I’ve found several other, more convincing, hints in this book that seem to hint towards my solve that I do not want to share at this point, however this particular part seems to be in more “stretchy” territory for me (although I can also relate this hint to point toward my solve). I imagine that it is fairly easy for red, black, and green elements to relate to many of our various solves and guesses. What do you think? Do the tea colors seem significant to anyone else? I think that in the way that this particular passage is written, it seems like a deliberate hint, but I could just be going off the rails.

    • I enjoyed that gentle, sad story of Olga too, Blex ..albeit I cheated by reading it on ye Ol’ Santa Fe Trading Co site

      and if you’re suggesting researching any red/green Tea Companies originally founded in New Mexico (as HOB) ..then I’m fast becoming your biggest HOD fan, mate

      – clever lateral thinking 🙂

      • Haha! Sorry to disappoint CH, but I had not been thinking about a NM tea company before you mentioned the idea just now. I did just do a quick Google search and found some very nice-looking tea houses in NM that I’ll have to check out the next time I’m in the area. My wife is a big fan of exotic teas, but I usually just stick to coffee!

        Wheeler Peak is definitely on my “to-hike” list this summer. Hopefully I can get to it and bag myself another state highpoint! It looks like a very beautiful hike, and of the 2 main routes listed online, the one with the longer distance, but gentler grades seems more pleasant to me.

      • Also, like blueberries, blackberries are red when they’re green. And olives start off green, transform to red (or purple), and are finally black when they’re at their ripest. Olga is a Russian name, and there is such a thing as a Russian Olive tree (Elaeagnus angustifolia). I think you can see why red/black/green tea is not going to help much with ~solving~ a clue.

        • thanks Zap, for informing us all of the official Latin terminology for a Russian Olive Tree

          but i was more interested in exploring colours tbh (red + green = brown?) given that Forrest was an art-dealer, whose best friend was a painter, and “Brown” being such an important clue and all..

          can’t wait to hear the results of your next search – got me popcorn all ready, already 🙂

          • Hi Curious Hobbit: northern Rocky snow conditions being what they are, my “next search” may instead be to take care of the Breakfast Tea & Bourbon treasure hunt since the item to retrieve enjoys much more favorable weather at this time of year than does Indulgence.

          • Hi Zap ..what?!

            ..but.. but.. i bought the really expensive popcorn 🙁

    • I found it interesting that in the Chinese elements black represents water, green represents wood and red represents fire.

      • i like your angle Dulcinea

        my idea was, if a small amount of red is added to green, it creates a ruddy brown colour (brown tea company in New Mexico?)

        although, if applied to your interesting research of Chinese elements, wood + fire = a blaze?

        hmmm …leave no stone unturned imho 🙂

    • The colours in Tea With Olga, combined with the other colours in the book, are hints to the colours of the olympic rings. This also ties in with his 66,000 links north of Santa Fe comment. 66,000 is a Hex number for a shade of red, and links is another name for rings.
      The rest is up to you to figure out.

    • Toby, that’s an interesting thought. Fans of word puzzles/cyphers could have a field day messing around with the chemical symbols for these. There’s Fe and Cu for iron and copper respectively, but then you hit a bit of a block with stainless steel, which doesn’t have a specific chemical compound symbol, although it typically contains iron, carbon, nickel, & chromium (Fe, C, Ni, Cr). I guess you could also throw in an “O” for the oxidation too.

  103. Lug – Starting here due to length of the thread above. You brought up logic. If we are talking logic, then how would you know you’ve solved a clue in the poem? You could just hope you were tracking correctly or in the instance of TTOTC f created a way that will help the person who puts forth the effort required to solve a clue. Think about it this way. The ideas that have been tried since day 1 have not worked. Why do you doubt this approach will fall into the same category of other failed attempts? This approach is logical and it yields plenty of fruit. This approach is not dependant upon hints in the books, other writings, videos, photos, or illustrations, however those things can and do provide confidence. Ask yourself this question. Why has f shared so much information with us over the years? It’s not just for entertainment. His information is for students who have listened and done their homework.

    • HMA –

      He has answered the question and so I can move with confidence to answer the question.

      He shares all this for entertainment. Because it brings joy to people.

      Do you really think he is continually giving hints that only a hand full of people can figure out? AND only for people that have already solved the clues? Is that what he’s doing?

      Zap says what he is doing is so new and different that no one has done it. Ask yourself a question. Has any searcher been within 500 feet of your TC? If no than you are in the wrong place. If yes, and your technique is new, than your technique is false. It’s false because someone already went to your TC but used a wholly different method. That means your method is either false or inconsequential. Therefore my draw will not drop.

      You are most likely targeting an area that’s been searched many times and others here can tell you about the previous searchs.

      Lugnutz

      • Lug – I think you meant jaw. Maybe your jaw won’t fall to the floor. Maybe you will also yourself silly.

  104. Hi, folks.

    Here’s something I’m willing to share: I arrived at my solve using only the poem and maps. After I looked at the area of where my solve was, I thought of a fun phrase that I could use as a subtle hint to where my solve location was. Weeks later, I bought a copy of “Thrill of the Chase” and read it. I was pleased to find that this same phrase appeared in Forrest’s book. I had seemingly anticipated one the “subtle hints” that Forrest said that he had hid within his book before even having read the book. I do not think that it is a phrase that would particularly stand out to anyone unless it was tied to their solve area (and before you ask, I am not going to tell what the phrase is, or what page number it can be found on).

    My question to all of you is: Have any of you had a similar experience in anticipating a hint in the book before you even read it, and then found it to indeed be there?

  105. I’m going to go out on a limb and drop a bomb at the same time. There aren’t just a couple hints in the books, there are thousands of hints in TTOTC and TFTW. Finding these hints will help you decipher the poem like training books teach you how to pass the exam. To explain it another way, without those books you aren’t playing with a full deck. My opinion.

    • Iceman: there aren’t thousands of hints, but between the 2 books I’d say there are at least a hundred. Don’t ignore the Scrapbooks and MW Q&A’s — he’s been workin’ overtime on those. I think Forrest rarely misses an opportunity to drop a hint (or more accurately, an Easter egg). But if you’re in the wrong spot, they all fall on blind eyes and deaf ears. If you aren’t 99.9% sure you have WWWH, don’t waste time trying to decipher book or web hints. They’ll only send you down rabbit holes.

      • I am done with my solve, but thanks for the gesture. I didn’t count the hints but I’m going to stick with thousands.

      • Iceman: respectfully, thousands is a bit over the top. Have you typed in TTOTC? I did last year (so I would have a searchable document) and “thousands of hints” is quite unsupportable. There are about 30,000 words in TTOTC, so what you’re suggesting is that every few sentences on average has a hint, and that just isn’t so.

        • I haven’t yet read TFTW, but for what it’s worth in TOTC I counted 8 hints (though some of those hints were pointing to the same thing). I only read it through once though, and may find more in a second pass.

        • Sorry Zaphod. You may have missed some. My book is marked with colored markers. There are repeats. I’m counting those.

        • Blex: you will need to read TTOTC a dozen or more times to catch even a good fraction of what Forrest secreted there.

        • Iceman: even with repeats (and there are plenty) there aren’t 500+ in TTOTC. The word “the” is not a hint. ;-). You are falling victim to confirmation bias. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Forrest was generous with his hints, but not absurdly so. He knew that as long as he lived he could always augment the hints he left in his books as he felt necessary. But he can’t “un-hint” his books.

          • You will not be able to decipher the poem until you find the remaining clues in the book. You have a long way to get to the end. Just sayin. To explain further would be providing more than I want to give away. Do not reply. Over. Best of luck to you. I don’t need your assistance. My solve was complete six months ago.

          • Hi Iceman

            if you claim that the book is essential to solving the poem, then why has Forrest previously stated; “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker..”?
            ( – stolen from Dals Cheat Sheet page)

            you may well have cracked this puzzle, and i certainly hope you keep us all up-dated with your botg search results
            – will it be your first?

          • Curious hobbit I am well aware of what f said. But I am reminded of what Einstein said to question everything. Fenn has quoted him in his book. Maybe one of the reasons the Chase is so perplexing is that f threw in just one or two mistruths. It’s your job to validate/question it. Only time will tell. I have been out looking already and stood no more than 3 feet from my spot but did not know it til I returned from the trip. Keep on it. I don’t have it yet and I may not even be in the right state. Forrest is a wiley coyote. Best of luck to you.

          • Spoon –

            Crazy right? He speaks in definitives, usually doesn’t say IMO. He’s speaking to a newish chaser and saying things as if they were facts.

            I guess it’s ok since no one but HMA listens to him?

            Lugnutz

          • Iceman ~”I have been out looking already and stood no more than 3 feet from my spot but did not know it til I returned from the trip.”

            Really!? 3 feet from the spot… and you got there by the poem and you did know?

            Good Grief , now we have a 3′ club.. lol and as always, followed by that return trip epiphany.

            Ya just can make this stuff up. On a lighter note, Olivia Newton John and John Travolta are having a Grease reunion… they should call it Ancient Grease.

          • Iceman: you are entertaining, but deluded. You probably aren’t even in the right state. I wish you well, but you were not within 3 feet of Indulgence. You couldn’t be and not find it. How long have you spent on the Chase? If it’s less than 2000 hours you aren’t there yet.

          • thanks Iceman – best of luck to you too mate

            (..loved ya in that Top Gun movie too btw)
            🙂

          • Iceman,
            I believe it’s possible to be within 3 feet of the chest and not find it. Fenn did say the chest is: “difficult to find but not impossible”.
            Good luck to you on your next trip and don’t be dissuaded by those that are in the 1500 mile club!

            -Randawg.

          • Randawg: possible, but not likely according to Forrest. I refer you back to SB 78:

            “Second, I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”

          • randawg ~ “I believe it’s possible to be within 3 feet of the chest and not find it. Fenn did say the chest is: “difficult to find but not impossible”.

            Fenn stated; “I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”

            If interpreting the “poem” got you to the spot, how can anyone be within 3′ ~ arms length ~ and not find the chest?

            Maybe we need the magic key word… open-sesame

          • I’m familiar with that quote gentlemen and I stand by my statement.
            “not likely” in no way infers “impossible”.
            Only time will tell won’t it?

          • Note: Einstein was only considered a genius.
            Wile E. Coyote was a ‘Super’ genius!
            😀

          • Not sure how Wile E. was able to afford all those fancy ACME products, but with that kinda money he could have had all the steak dinners he wanted instead of one scrawny bird.

          • Lug — I didn’t make the over-the-top claim about “thousands of hints”, Iceman did. But I guess you let him off the hook because he finished his post with 2 words “My opinion.” I bet you’re a lot of fun to play golf with.

          • Are you saying your comments don’t read as fact? Just say my bad, I’ll distinguish between fact and opinion.

            I believe I am lot of fun to play golf with especially compared to golfers.

            Lugnutz

        • Blex: I considered the humor factor of retrieving the chest on April 1, but it’s been an epic winter and no one is going to find Indulgence this month. You have plenty of time to scrutinize the poem and books. 🙂

          • I agree, zaphod; Winter just doesn’t seem to want to let go this year. We just got 5-6 inches here in Colorado Springs today and it looks like this system has been hitting most of the U.S. Rockies throughout.

    • Q~Is it an advantage to buy The Thrill of the Chase and Too Far to Walk?
      A~There are hints in my TTOTC book that can help solve the clues in the poem.

      No mention to the second book even though he had the chance to do so.
      Fenn already stated Canada omitted from the map was a clue, located in the back of the book.

      There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.

      I might not be great at math but…Where are those thousands? The more this chase goes on, the more folks think fenn lies… I don’t get the logic or even if there is any.

      • I can understand your frustration. The poem is a work of genius. It isn’t going to be solved without some serious problem solving skills in my opinion. Don’t underestimate Fenn. But the treasure is real. No one would go through so much trouble if it weren’t. I trust him for that.

      • Some searchers see what they want to see, even if nothing is there.

        So now, we have moved from the HOB to “The Book”. Searchers jump around all over the various topics, like grasshoppers on weeds.

        Ken (in Texas)

  106. Not only is there a Big Picture roadmap of the US as a hidden theme in Fenn’s books, There is also a listing of commercial and private airports. It’s all for your planning convenience. Forrest thinks of everything! My opinion.

  107. Not sure what you will need to take with you on your next treasure hunt? No worries. It’s another hidden theme in Fenn’s books TTOTC and TFTW. Forrest thinks of everything! My opinion.

  108. Not sure if your solve is taking you to the right state? There are subliminal messages in Fenn’s books TTOTC and TFTW that should answer that. It’s another hidden theme. Forrest thinks of everything! It’s there for the taking. But you’ll have to find it. My Opionion.

  109. The Chase is not just a treasure hunt. It’s a world class intelligence test. This is yet another hidden theme that can be found in Fenn’s books, TTOTC and TFTW. Forrest won’t tell you this cause it makes him look like he’s just promoting his books. But I’m telling you. Of course as always, this is not fact just yet. It’s my opinion.

    • Iceman…

      ” It’s a world class intelligence test.”

      IF…Mr f has thought of Everything…then this can not be a world class intelligence test because Mr f would eliminate chasers whose IQ`s are not as high as you make yourself sound :mrgreen:

      Mr f designed this poem on an Equal playing field for all IQ levels. So do not be shocked when this hunt is over and you realize everything in TTOTC is not a hint.

      Oh yeah…jmo

      • All of the words you mentioned in your quote are in the books. Every one. That’s a fact. There are many more including the name Einstein. I never said I was a genius, never said I wasn’t. It I think f is.

        • Rick-
          Forrest was a D student. Forrest is a self-proclaimed redneck from Texas. Einstein got bad grades in high school. They were both late bloomers and they are probably still geniuses in their own right. Genius and redneck are not necessarily mutually exclusive. You can be a redneck and a genius at the same time. Forrest is one of those. Maybe you can be too. Don’t give up. Best of luck to you.

    • Iceman ..is that it? or did i merely miss something subliminal?

      i’m certainly not seeking a free meal from any offered bones here, nor have i ever ..but i was curiously anticipating your explanation of fore-mentioned map boundaries from JFK to LAX.. without comprising your ‘solve’ to any degree in the process, naturally..

      but.. “popcorn finished.. yawn ..zzzzz..”
      :/

      • LOL, CH, maybe you can get answers out of him, but I doubt it. He’s not done doing his impression of King Kong yet…
        Ya might want to click on the boob-tube and catch a game before that popcorn gets cold and butter saturated. Nothing worse than old cold gooey popcorn.

        Well, Umm, There might be one thing, and there are 8 examples in the text above.

      • Hobs –
        Print out a US road map. Get a colored marker. Go through the books and highlight any city town or place you find. Connect he dots using roadways EW. Go to the Rockies and connect dots NS. Some cities will be easy to find. Others just hinted at one way or another. It’s Forrests way of inviting you to drive to his treasure chest. The rest you have to figure out yourself. Good luck.

        • appreciate your response Iceman, and will def contemplate your directions over a bad coffee in the morning..

          but gotta date with a talented poet at the mo, which always helps to smooth my ruffled nylon feathers 🙂

    • My sentiments exactly. This thing could be over in a matter of weeks. Or we could all be back home wondering what the h&!! just happened and did we even get the first clue right. Where we even in the correct state?

  110. Fenn’s book…TTOTC is a good read and he has made his mark by offering up one of the best adventures in modern history. Don’t be fooled into believing it is something it is not. Read the poem…subtle hints in the book…
    Have a nice day.

  111. An important hidden theme in the Fenn books is tied to foreign language translations. To find the treasure will require the use of all the languages mentioned in the text. My Opinion.

  112. Did you know that in Eric Sloane’s book Fourteen Dollars a Square Inch is a painting he did called “Autumn Blaze”? It’s also illustrated on page 205 of TFTW.

  113. Did you know that f uses the phrase “in my office” a suspicious number (7) of times in his books TTOTC and TFTW? But why?

  114. Iceman, it’s my interpretation of your comments that you believe Forrest has deliberately placed hints throughout his books. How do you reconcile that thought process with Forrest’s quote taken from the site cheat sheet?

    ♦ “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search.” f

    • Reiteri-
      My explanation is that you need to be very careful how you read Fenn’s words. He said not deliberately “placed”. The placement of words is random, but the “use” of his words are very deliberate hints. Most searchers are glossing right over this and not paying much attention to his books. There are hints by the thousands in the books. And the same hints in the books are also present in the poem. The books are a good training ground for understanding how to interpret the poem. My opinion.

      • What you might be missing Iceman, is the complete comment.
        Not deliberately placed to aid… a seeker.
        The addition of aid, may not have anything to do with “placement” and more to do with not deliberately putting in information… hence; might be the reason for a couple of good hints and a couple of aberrations… not thousands.
        As well as, why the hints are subtle…

    • All you need is the poem? But the poem has referenced both of the books by name, TTOTC and TFTW. So logically the books are an extension of the poem. Taking that logic one step further, any books referenced in TTOTC and TFTW, become an extension of the poem. It gives you a lot more information to work with. But I will admit my solve is mapped solely to the poem. Yet I would never have deciphered the poem without learning step by step through the other books.

  115. Here’s something to think about. In the chapter Jump Starting the Learning Curve, from TTOTC, f concludes “What we’ve learned is that you should always tell the truth, but you should not always tell ALL of the truth”.

  116. In TTOTC, f mentions Flint Fyke in chapter 6, my prehistoric friends. But did you know that “fyke” means fishing net. Did you know that f’s nephew Crayton Fenn is a professional diver who removes derelict fishing nets from the bottom of rivers? Then why is chapter 43 in TFTW called the Derelict? This chapter IMO has nothing to do with derelicts. There is something very fishy about that! What’s going on?

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