891 thoughts on “THE NINE CLUES….Part Six

  1. Thank you Dal,

    I think the first stanza of the poem is a reference to a time that Mr. Fenn enjoyed as a boy with his father. I think his treasures are from his childhood, and the “secret where” is a place he and his father went to together during a trip to West Yellowstone with his family.

    He has commented that “two can keep a secret if one of them is dead”, or something similar. I think they both visited the location of the chest when Mr. Fenn was a boy and now that his father is passed away, he can keep the secret. My guess is Wyoming or Montana.

    Welcome to the fifth in a series, let’s be honest.


    • Just posted on google maps:
      Winter Storm Warning in New Mexico

      Active for next 1 day, 12 hoursLocations: East Slopes Sangre de Cristo Mountains; Jemez Mountains; Northern Sangre de Cristos above 9500 feet, Red River; San Juan Mountains; Southern Sangre de Cristos above 9500 feet; West Slopes Sangre de Cristo Mountains

      Use Caution NM hunters

      • >> Use Caution NM hunters

        … and even MORE caution for COLORADO Hunters … find a WARM HOTEL and stay there …

  2. Well, what did I miss? Anything interesting take place? Just got in….Dumped the email, too many clogging the ol’ inbox. Read just one before deleting the rest…Looked to me like today got off to a bad start. Hope tomorrows comments are back in line with the purpose of Dal’s blog.

  3. Dal, just out of curiosity, does fenn ever mention in his book that he went to catholic school?

    • Germanguy, Read the book today and no, he didn’t go to Catholic school

    • What religion is he? There are many different religions out there.

    • He did not go to a Catholic school. He was born & raised Baptist in Temple Texas. I do not know what his religious beliefs today would be but I suspect he is not a big fan of any “organized” religious institution.

    • hey germanguy.. from the book; forrest – “my church is the mountains and along the river bottoms where dreams and fantasies alike come to play”.. sort of question related. maybe a subtle hint within this quote too..

  4. Earlier there was discussion on meek and I wanted to say that although FF told the emailer in question to not change the poem and that it’s a little m for a reason, I think it doesn’t answer the question about whether it’s describing Joseph Meek or just a meek person. Just like the B in brown and everything else in the poem.
    FF says any good writer is entitled to a little fiction (15%). So 15% of the poem is not true. That’s about 3 lines. So 3 lines are a not exactly the factual truth. Maybe they are clues, but they can be anti-clues as well. 9 Clues, x number of misleading clues. I wish I knew what to believe.

    • Ironmeteor-
      I think it might very well. If Meek were capitalized it probably means the name of an individual. Forrest is not a disrespectful person and in my opinion would more likely capitalize a person’s name, even in his poem.

      • just checked dictionary for meek, and among other things like humble, unassuming, unpretentious, etc, which make no sense it says :”deficient in spirit and courage : submissive” Since from there it is no place to lack courage or be submissive/follow the rules, maybe it is in a place that has a boundary or barrier that says do not pass here…a locked gate, (Not for danger reasons, but for “govermental regulatory rule reasons.) If it says no trespassing and you are meek you will not trespass, and therefore not get to the treasure. From there it is no place for the meek to be. my2cents4

        • Excellent INSIGHTS Molly B., THANK YOU for not SPEAKING in CODE… INSIGHTS like yours are REQUIRED, Like the 4-Traps of THE LAST CRUSADE… The NAZIS couldn’t pass, but INDIANA JONES was MORE “INSIGHTFUL”… ( HOLDING PEOPLE back by “SPEAKING in CODE” didn’t help the NAZIS, nor will it help any of us on this BLOG )

          FORREST FENN likes to be compared to INDIANA JONES… as in his “THE MOTHER OF INDIANA JONES – ( A COLLECTOR STRIKES BACK )” article.

          Reference: http://www.friendsofpast.org/forum/mother.html


          Excellent INSIGHTS Molly B.

          SPOILER ALERT, “this is a BLOG about the NINE CLUES”… “Dangerously Good Insights” – WELCOMED & PREFERRED.

      • Dal, I found the word “meek” very interesting myself. As I moved through the clues, I couldn’t help going back to the word meek. It turns out that it was an important part of the journey. Wish I could say more.

    • Iron….let me quote a little alien named Paul ” sometimes less is more” and I will paste some of my efforts here. I hope no one gets mad at me but I am not giving away any clues or ruining or fouling up the chase just maybe clearing some questions up for some people and this is just some of the results of my research.

      Begin it where warm waters halt known(research)
      And take it in the canyon down, Logical
      Not far, but too far to walk. Logical
      Put in below the home of Brown. Known(research)

      From there it’s no place for the meek, Logical
      The end is ever drawing nigh; helpful but not a clue?
      There’ll be no paddle up your creek, Known(research)
      Just heavy loads and water high. Known? (research)

      If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, can only be known at the site?
      Look quickly down, your quest to cease, known logical/research
      But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
      Just take the chest and go in peace.

      So why is it that I must go
      And leave my trove for all to seek?
      The answer I already know,
      I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

      So hear me all and listen good,
      Your effort will be worth the cold. Logical but goes along with other clues
      If you are brave and in the wood could have two meanings but only one ofcoarse is right
      I give you title to the gold.

      • the structure and spaces are a bit screwed up but I think you can make it out
        good luck

    • It was just a curiosity question for Dal. It may have some bearing on the search.

  5. germanguy,

    no, but let’s keep this thread about the nine clues. Perhaps your question is better suited in a different thread.


    • Huh? Your in charge of the blog now? How is it that with the little bit I said in my comments, that you can determine whether or not my request to Dal is not related to the blog?????

      • Germanguy,

        Maybe you should run everything in an email first to JD so he can decide what’s viable.

        • Slope66, I haven’t heard where Dal has turned over the blog to a new moderator. I must have missed something. If so, I owe JD an apology.

          • Germanguy-
            I had not heard that either…when did I do that? I am always the last to know 🙂

  6. germanguy,

    I’m not policing. really I’m not.

    I just didn’t want this thread to go off in an unintended direction. I was just trying to direct you to what I thought might be a more appropriate direction, and expected you to recognize that..
    I don’t want this to turn into 700 posts of non-topic posts like the last two threads have.

    Let’s keep it 9 clues. please?


    • JD perhaps you should just let Dal let people know if they are not appropriate. That way no one is mad at you and you aren’t acting like anyone’s mommy. 😉
      If no one really knows WHAT the nine clues are and what they mean then anything can be considered part of a clue. Including a question about a school. If a clue leads you to something then it should be discussed as it is part of the clue itself. Make sense? Just like brown can lead us to trout, bugs, trees, historical figures, religious things, rocks, dirt, poop and so forth, really anything goes because it is part of a clue!! I hope you understand this because I chase a lot of butterflies!

  7. Question #1 – Take away the first stanza & the last 2 stanzas. Still a complete poem with all the clues. So why did FF include the unnessary stanzas?

    Question #2 – How did FF know that some people got the first 2 clues correct, but missed the last 7? Was he with them or did they ask him without actually searching?

    Question #3 – FF wrote this poem before he hid the treasure. Is that correct? If so, then he must have already known exactly where he would leave it. Had to be special or have constant pre-existing conditions that matched the poem – blaze & all. Wonder at what point he chose that spot.

    • Becky question 1&3 , I think may be answered by JD’s well articulated post which is the very first one on this site, question 2 , it is possible that someone e-mailed their solution to him and he is acknowledging they were correct on the first two.

    • Becky:
      Q2 I would like to learn more about the “Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close. Alas, and dame fortune, so often a fickle and seductive wench, never spun her wheel to lure them back.”

      Q3 I just received the TOTC book yesterday and hope to read it this week but I have been confused about the timeline from ff 1-getting cancer, 2-deciding to hide numerous containers around the continent to memorialize his time, and then 3-hiding a ‘chest’ which was to incent children to get off the couch and get outside, among other things.

      1- Cancer 2- memorial items 3- treasure chest, and the timing of all of these.

      • Regarding number one. Let’s think about this a little. Two people in email sent their ideas for location on the the clues and got the first two right. FF says they then went right past the other seven not realizing they had been so close.

        This leads me to think that the clues are all in the same general area. They got warm waters taking it in the canyon down. Then they ran off to other geographical locations missing the other seven clues in the same area that they had been for the first two clues.

  8. About the fact that FF knew that some folks got the first 2 clues correct but missed the other 7 — how would that be possible unless the poem is to be taken literally and the first 2 are WWWH and CANYON DOWN? FF has said something like ‘don’t mess with my poem’ (don’t take it in a different order) and ‘begin at the beginning’ (WWWH). So if the poem is encrypted or encoded or something like that — AND SOMEONE GOT THE FIRST 2 — then doesn’t it follow that those same people would have automatically gotten the other 7 too? If the poem is encoded or encrypted it would need to be solved in one fell swoop wouldn’t it? Or is there a separate/different way to decipher each of the 9 clues?

    • Stance,

      If it takes a riddle to unlock the WWWH which I believe it does, I don’t think FF would have made the rest of the clues to easy. I would imagine that each step after WWWH will be just as challenging, that way he could make the chase last for a very long time. Otherwise you unlock the beginning and basically its over. Just a thought.

      • Hi Slope, i tend to agree with Stance’s logic but i see the clues a bit differently.

        The first four clues put me at a particular spot. The next four describe the journey i must undertake from there. The last one tells me what to do when i find the blaze.

    • I believe they had emailed him about a failed trip/solution. Their first two points were correct then they were interpreting it incorrectly from there. I don’t think there is a code.

    • My own solution indicates that it’s very tempting to be “meek” after the first clues, leading searchers off track.

      • Also found meek as compliant, and easily imposed upon. aka follows all the rules.

        • “From there it’s no place for the meek”

          In more than one of my searches, I have found myself 50 feet or MORE away from another “CHASER” and we’ve immediately “LOCKED STARES”, they were STANDING EXACTLY where I was wanting to STAND… and all we could do was STARE at EACH OTHER…


          Then I REALIZED, well they were here first, even though I started DRIVING 14-hours ago, and I have MORE TIME INVESTED in DRIVING, they, most likely a LOCAL, had beat me by SECONDS… they started out LAST but got there FIRST… by SECONDS… UUUUUHHHHHH…

          SO I REALIZED that I HAD to GIVE THEM THEIR SPACE, so I TURNED and WALKED AWAY giving THEM a 30 minute HEAD START… and then as I “Put in below the home of Brown”30 Minutes behind THEM I found a BLAZE… and an 12″ x 12″ HOLE… NOOOOO it can’t be by SECONDS… how CRUEL is the UNIVERSE…

          Then I realize, FORREST didn’t say it was BURIED, even though that SURELY was the BLAZE… so I kept walking… and sure enough there were other BLAZES, and OTHER 12″ x 12” HOLES and I QUICKLY REALIZE that if THE people AHEAD of me “HAVE TITLE TO THE GOLD” I have to let them “GO IN PEACE” but since they are LOOKING UNDERGROUND, and I AM LOOKING ABOVE GROUND… we’re really not in EACH OTHERS way…

          NEEDLESS to say I came out of those places EMPTY HANDED, but it was GOOD PRACTICES for letting those with “TITLE TO THE GOLD”, “GO IN PEACE” even though they most likely left EMPTY HANDED as well…

          IT ALSO TAUGHT me “NOT TO DIG”… as that is what is MOST LIKELY to get a LOT of PEOPLE in TROUBLE. ( There BE RATTLE SNAKES under them thar ROCKS ), or SOME STATE OFFICIAL with ENFORCEMENT CREDENTIALS.


  9. The waterfall clue,

    Begin it where warm waters halt

    .… Fall (autumn) is when the water stops being warm
    …. enough to swim in, at least in the NE U.S.

    And take it in the canyon down
    Not far, but too far to walk

    ….because it is a vertical drop

    Put in below the home of Brown

    .…. Fall is when vegetation turns Brown,
    .…. Again, at least in the NE U.S.

    Assome have suggested, there may also be a dam / waterfall associated with this. As only a starting point, would not necessarily violate “not associated with any structure”.

  10. I have come to the conclusion that the first stanza of the poem is not about FF’s vault because he wrote “I can keep my secret where”. Dal has been to FF’s vault, so that place is no longer secret. FF must then be referring to where the chest is hidden.

    “As I have gone alone in there”: Implies to me that FF is referring to a general geographical location such as the Rocky Mountains, YNP, etc.; or, a specific geographical location such as a cave, creek, canyon, etc. Hopefully the poem will clarify which.

    “And with my treasures bold”: Implies to me that FF is referring to what he values most in nature as being obvious at his hiding location; or, FF was able to carry his chest boldly without it being seen by others. It seems more logical that FF carried his chest in a backpack; therefore, it would not have been bold. So, I believe that it is what FF values most in nature that is bold. FF cherishes the mountains and its river bottoms. From this I conclude that FF was referring to a general geographical location in the first line of his poem. Later FF supports this by emailing dal that the chest is hidden in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe.

    “I can keep my secret where”: Implies to me FF feels that he can keep it secret where in the Rocky Mountains he has gone in alone.

    “And hint of riches new and old”: Implies to me that FF is saying two things here. FF feels he can also keep secret where a hint of riches new and old are; and, his chest contains a hint of riches new and old; or, his hiding location has new and old features of great value. I eliminate the latter because FF has already said he can keep his hiding location secret and he has told us that the chest does contain new and old items of value to him.

    So in summary, I interpret the entire first stanza as a clue already solved. FF hid his chest in the Rocky Mountains somewhere along a stream. This is consistent with what FF has said and with what most believe.

    • I am fairly certain that the first stanza means just a tad more then that, after THINKing about it for a week it clicked! lol!!

      • Jen
        So new and old are you thinking maybe new and old physical things or new and old historical things? But if its more in that stanza then there are more than nine clues?

      • Jen, I would love for you to prove me wrong by letting us know what clicked. I don’t THINK a first stanza click would give away your spot. LOL

      • I beleave the first stanza is just a poetic way to say.
        I went alone and hide my treasure for you to find if you figure out with these clues I am about to give you.
        Plane and simple again thats just my opiniom.

      • jwahl-
        I think along the same lines as you on the first stanza. It’s just an introduction to the poem. States the purpose…like the preface or introduction to a novel. The first stanza tells us about the aim and subject of the story. No clues there.

      • I wouldn’t call it a clue, I would just say introductions are VERY important in any story, poem, or book. As are the conclusions….
        Tim I am not thinking “historical” in the first stanza, more recent past….. j

      • Tim you asked if it was a clue…. now that I think about it, it very well could be, which would mean that 2 items might be combined into one clue. I have leaned toward not but I might rethink this…………….it makes more sense this way….. hmmmmmmmmmm you might have just helped a girl out! 😉

    • I lean towards the first stanza being only an introduction as well. However, I do like the use of the word, ‘where’ to imply the treasure’s secret resting place, and as a place Forrest had found treasure before.

    • My thoughts are very paralel. I think he is telling us, when I hid the treasures, I was alone and I had the chest with me. Im keeping it a secret, not telling anyone.

      riches new and old??? Im not sure this is not a clue.

      • Hi JM
        It is a clue, its among “riches new and old” that the chest is hidden. When you figure out almost half will be solved.

    • Dollarbill,

      I believe you are correct in that the first stanza is geographical. Without having a geographical location to start, you are like most everyone that ignores the importance of the first stanza and spend all your time searching for little clues in every state of the Union.

      “As I have gone alone in there”: FF’s home in Santa Fe, NM.
      “And with my treasures bold”: Surrounded by his treasures in his vault in Santa Fe, NM.
      “I can keep my secret where”: Deciding where to hide the treasure.
      “And hint of riches new and old”: Writing the poem that will lead you to the treasure.

      The key to any treasure hunt is you need a geographical location to start. Everyone that has contributed on this blog shows that without a idea of what geographical location to start at, you can make the clues fit anywhere in the world. FF was nice enough to give you a hint on where to look in the world by using his home as the focal point of your search. Then you radiate out from there.

      Also a key point to remember when writing a treasure map is, you decide on where to hid the treasure first, then work backwards picking out key “markers” until you reach the beginning point.

  11. Dollarbill,

    I doubt she’ll tell you, we can all hypothesize about what the rest of the poem may or may not mean which is good because at some point we need to know as much as possible. But nobody that has figured out WWWH is going to spill those beans. If you’ve noticed everyone is willing to discuss the other clues but not the beginning because that is huge.

    Can you imagine if Bill spilled the beans last night on WWWH. Talk about a mad dash…..

    • Slope66, I fear that you are right. But, I hope that if I push hard enough, naysayers will ante up or fold.

    • P.S., I really don’t think that Bill has a WWWH. He was just trying to get a rise out of people, which he did successfully.

      • Nope I know for a fact he knows. While I don’t find anything wrong with him stating his opinions or anyones else’s for that matter, I do think it would be a little irresponsible and heres why. The potential for hundreds or thousands of people reading these blogs would descend on WWWH all with crazy gold fever, and that’s when bad things would happen. People would get hurt and that would spoil the whole chase, game over.

      • No I don’t know. But I believe every clue is going to be just as hard and you won’t really know for sure what they are until you’re actually there. It’s good to have as many interpretations but again unless you’re there you’ll never know. People will continue to state they know where it is or they have figured it out but until FF confirms its been found then everyones still in the game.

        • Slope-
          I agree with you..for once!…just kidding.
          In that regard…Please be aware of this guy’s posting. He has been saying the same thing in email to Forrest for several weeks. But when pressed for a photo of the chest he said he would have to get them out of his camera. Then he disappears and this turns up on craigslist in Santa Fe…
          So..my guess is that since he couldn’t fool Forrest he decided to try making everyone else unhappy. It’s clear he does not have it. If he did he would be posting a photo. Additionally, it’s clear he is trying to hurt folks otherwise he would not be a jerk about it.

          It’s my personal belief that folks like this just don’t know anything about living among others. I hope he does not have children.

          This is a FAKE find!


    • Dollarbill-
      No one knows if they have solved WWWH. You cannot know that until you have the chest in the trunk of your car. You cannot possibly know if the first clue is correct until you have solved all nine. You make it sound like the lights will come on inside the first floor of a nine story building when the first clue is solved. But in fact there is no one out there who will signal when the first clue is mastered.

      I hear many people on this blog write that they have solved the poem. That’s ridiculous because having the chest is the only proof of the solution. This isn’t like a crossword puzzle where you can see the solution for today’s puzzle in tomorrow’s paper. This is not a riddle that can be solved on paper. Thinking about the clues is important. The discussion here is useful but not when you pretend that you can solve the first clue and then move on to the second.

      The poem itself is a single solution. Coming up with an answer for each and every clue is easy. A child can do it. Coming up with the CORRECT SET of answers for all the clues is much more difficult. You could have eight clues right. One wrong and be in the wrong state.

      The earlier in the poem that your answers are correct the more likely you are to be close to the treasure. If you have guessed WWWH incorrectly then you could be a thousand miles from the treasure even if your other eight guesses to the clues in the poem were absolutely correct.

      But if your first eight guesses are right and only the last clue was figured incorrectly you could be very close…but no cigar.

      So, in my mind there are hundreds of thousands of possibilities here. Forrest knows a thing or two about odds and he likes to manipulate them in his favor. If you look at the odds alone the chances of finding the location of the treasure just by matching up all the right answers to the clues are miniscule. The odds are better to win at Powerball where you only have to guess 5 numbers correctly.

      In this treasure hunt you can manipulate the odds by learning about Forrest and how he thinks. By being able to understand what he means by the words Brown and meek and canyon down. Knowing how Forrest thinks is the most valuable way a searcher can change the odds of finding the chest.

      This is the advantage that folks who have been looking for the treasure for a couple of years have over new folks. We have had more time to study Forrest. To see his ways. To define his character.

      The only other choice is trial and error.

      I’ve had enough answers to take on the clues in the poem 29 times now. I’ve had perfectly viable guesses for most of the clues in the poem, 26 times. They were reasonable guesses based on the facts at hand at the time. Many of them no longer make as much sense because new facts have come into play. I have six more possible solutions all lined up and ready to try. Again, based on the facts at hand and my understanding of Forrest’s nature.

      I hear searchers moaning all the time about how UNFAIR it is that new searchers don’t have to fail as much because the new clues give them an advantage the old searchers did not have. I think that’s rubbish.

      In my opinion, the best way to solve the puzzle is to understand fact from fiction about the poem. This is best done by looking at the poem and looking at what Forrest has written and has not written. The next step is to understand as much as you can about Forrest’s personality and character. I read his books and watch his interviews. I look for subtle hints to his decision making process and his background. I pay very close attention to The Santa Fe Interviews. I read his other books to learn about the way he communicates, his vocabulary, his slang and his writing rhythm.

      To me, the key to understanding the poem and finding the treasure will be found by understanding it’s creator as much as having good guesses for the nine clues.

      • DAL >> I’ve had enough answers to take on the clues in the poem 29 times now. I’ve had perfectly viable guesses for most of the clues in the poem, 26 times

        If the treasure is not found for 1000 years, I DO believe that DAL’s GHOST will join the “GHOST RIDERS IN THE SKY”, in the ROCKIES…

        … like “Hey, does that CLOUD over there look like DAL”, “YEP, he’s watching over FORREST’s BONES…”

      • dal, it is great when you post comments that combine your unique intuitions and knowledge about FF and your vast experience in the field. They are a great help to all of your bloggers, new and old. Keep up the good work. This also can apply to your other experienced bloggers.

        However, I am confused as to what sort of posts you want to see on your site. If my posts are destructive, please let me know. I will not throw a tantrum and pout the rest of my life. It is only a challenge for me, and there are many other challenges available.

        • Dollarbill- I did not mean to imply that anyone’s posts were destructive or an issue in any way. I remove the comments and the commentors that are simply adding graffiti or are venomous…when I see them. I like your ideas. I was just presenting my opinion about the clues and not pretending to know more than the next guy.

      • Dal, your post made me happier than a different post would have. Thank you. I do apologize for misinterpreting some of your prior post. I tend to post some unpopular opinions that play with my conscience and cause me to question myself or others. Now I will get back to the dog chasing its tail.

      • Well said Dal, I completely agree. To better understand the poem you have to try to understand the creator. Otherwise, poetry like any form or art is subjective to ones own imagination and interpretation.

      • I agree with you, Dal. The key to the solution of the poem is through FF himself – life experiences & thoughts. But I am somewhat troubled about emails that I have received saying that the treasure has been located on an island that no one can search. Somthing to do with endorheic waters & government restrictions. Why was Bill asking about vowels? What do Paiute (sp) indians have to do with anything? Also that FF tricked us because the treasure is impossible to retrieve? I’m lost. What’s happening?

        • Becky, where did you read/see that the treasure had been located and who said it?

      • Becky
        This is an oxymoron – The treasure cannot be located or found if it can’t be searched. Be critical and check your sources.
        The Wolf

      • @Dal,
        That was a great comment with several good points…….Thank you

      • Dal,

        I’m a little confused, are you stating Bill is the guy who said he found it on Craigslist and has been messing with Forrest? That’s news to me.

        I was responding to Dollar about Bill having a good idea of WWWH because I understood what it was.

        I agree nothing matters until box is in hand.

        • Slope- YIKES! Absolutely not. I just posted that for folks to look at. I am not associating anyone on this blog with that post. Sorry I confused you.

    • One of the definitions for warm waters I found on the internet was “clarity”. Where clarity halts. I thought I should look at the poem in a non-literal manner. After a few tries of looking at the poem in different ways I went back to reading in a more literal way.

  12. I think we need to think harder about this poem and mr F’ s history.

  13. Wish I didn’t have to go to work today… My ttotc book is arriving today!

  14. One thought I had about WWWH was Yellowstone Lake. Temperatures in the summer are between 40 and 50 degrees even with tributaries from hot springs. Yellowstone Lake is the largest freshwater lake above 7,000 feet in North America and FF and his family camped near Fishing Bridge for many years but the Brown bears were too dangerous and killed a few people every year so the family moved to a safer campsite. Just one of my many thoughts on WWWH. 🙂

    • About the bears being dangerous… We know that F hid the treasure by himself… Do you think while he was hiding it that he was worried about bears? I know that he is the invincible F… But still… There is always safety in numbers! And he went alone!

      • That was only my thought about the START of the poem. Of course you then have to go “not far, but too far to walk” etc until he would reach the area where he could hide his treasure.

  15. People can be forgotten and places renamed.

    Fenn claims his treasure is in a spot that could last a 1000 years. If he wants his poem to be any kind of relevant in 100 years he would not be describing any places by name or persons.

    • I think he could describe places by name or persons… And STILL make a mark on history with his poem

      • Now… I’m not saying that I think that he did… Just that he could.

  16. Not far but too far to walk…I believe this is a “hike” take a backpack with a sandwich, snacks and water…ect. for an all day walk/hike.

    • Rick, it is reported that he made two trips and a backpack would make a lot of sense. Keep in mind that it is possible the location is where others might be around (people coming within 500 feet of it).

      If that is the case then he deposited the bronze box first and it was most likely hidden at that time, per chance anyone as it while he was getting the booty to bring in the second trip. He then uncovered it, filled up the box and recovered it.

      So, a hike yes but not one that was too far to walk. Many see this clue indicating a different mode of transportation as a car, boat or plane.

      • My way of thinking on this is that Mr Fenn wants people/families to get out and enjoy nature…so why would he give us a starting point only to have us get in a car or plane and go somewhere else…? I personally believe from the starting point to the end is a long hike so that we can see what F has seen in the past. The difference between a walk and a hike is being prepared for an all day outing…walk is a shorter distance and a hike is a longer distance where we can see more of nature as F intended.

        • … and on a HIKE …

          You will need “a SANDWICH” (possibly to throw at bears), but I agree with STEPH, ( BEAR SPRAY is better ), “WATER”, and a FLASHLIGHT in case you are “out past DARK”…

      • Not far but too far to walk is most likely descriptive of where WWH and Canyon down are to be found relative to Santa Fe or possibly how far to take it down.

        The clues point to a final location about where to search. It is possible that though FF gave us the nine clues to describe the final resting spot of the treasure it is not necessary to take that route to them.

        Once you are on the ground, be ready to spend some time looking because it is truly a needle in a haystack (28 million possible locations in one square mile).

        btw, rumor has it that Stephanie has chased off bears with those high heels alone. 😉

        • … if you could only make ONE TRIP in a TWO WEEK span, I have seen all of these locations …

          They are LOCATED in a “relatively TIGHT” area in the ROCKIES NORTH of SantaFe… and they all have “Parking Lots” so to say…

          Cimarron Canyon State Park is three miles East of Eagle Nest
          along US Hwy 64.

          Vietnam Veterans Memorial State Park is located in
          Angel Fire, 30 miles East from Taos on US Hwy 64.

          Eagle Nest Lake State Park is about 160 miles Northeast
          of Albuquerque, and 32 miles East of Taos and 65 miles
          Southwest of Raton off of U.S. 64 in Northeastern New Mexico.
          Surrounding communities include Eagle Nest, Angel Fire,
          Red River and Cimarron.


      • Hi, Santa Fe Smart. – Your point is…?

        Are you saying that all those areas are in such close proximity of each other that very little driving is involved? Haven’t all those areas been searched to death? Have you been there?

        • Yes, Yes, and YES. There’s also ASTREE’s TREASURE MAP… of the Colorado Headwaters of the ROCKIES, NORTH of SantaFe…

          No speaking in CODE, these are all NAMED places… People have been said to have already walked past the TREASURE… searched to death is relative… and still not found.

      • @ John,
        Not far but too far to walk is most likely descriptive of where WWH and Canyon down are to be found relative to Santa Fe or possibly how far to take it down.

        The clues point to a final location about where to search. It is possible that though FF gave us the nine clues to describe the final resting spot of the treasure it is not necessary to take that route to them.

        Once you are on the ground, be ready to spend some time looking because it is truly a needle in a haystack (28 million possible locations in one square mile).

        btw, rumor has it that Stephanie has chased off bears with those high heels alone.

        John I agree and the spot I am looking at has a couple of places that F could take the chest in that is shorter than the way he is sending us.
        As for your calculations…lol…did you take into account the canyon walls…? 🙂

    • There is also a tree called the Autumn Blaze. It turns red in both the spring and the fall. I had wondered about this, but then thought if there actually was a large red tree in the middle of a bunch of green ones, that might be too easy to find, but who knows.

      • Derrick, I had the same thought; maybe it is a stand of deciduous trees surrounded by pines, which is a common occurrence and could be found anywhere, but that fact doesn’t rule out the concept as an important clue, because once One finds themselves to be at the correct location (at the correct time?), they’re gonna see the ‘blaze’ (whatever it might be).

    • When I think what his blaze maybe I keep going back to this Emerson quote
      “Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.”
      Don’t know why it just seems to fit FF

    • Mountain girl, they sure do don’t they? Especially in spring when the sap gets moving and that yellow sun hits them – almost effervescent. Toas is the village of the red willows – a very good blaze. So are quaking Aspen in the fall.

  17. In my opinion The Thrill of the Chase is more than simply having families with their kids bonding and enjoying the beautiful American outdoors and yes it’s more than just a treasure worth 1 to 3 million buck$.

    I honestly believe that when “this” whole “thing” is solved by 1 person or by a group of persons “it” will give all of humanity a TREASURE. This Chase is Big! Many have used the words Game Changer within Dal’s blog…Well when “this” is solved and the “findings” are shared, with all “it” will be a TOTAL GAME CHANGER!

    Listen I’m well off, financially, but I enjoy Poems and especially Poems in the form of a puzzles hence why I’m on this Chase. With that said I don’t see 1 to 3 million buck$ as a whole lot of money and when I read these words (see below) within the Forrest Fenn’s Poem and with him being a multi-millionaire words take on a whole other meaning.

    *treasures bold
    *riches new and old
    *effort will be worth the cold
    *brave and in the wood

    In my opinion one must keep in mind that this a multi-millionaire who wrote this poem…So what one should be asking himself or herself is what is bold considered to Forrest Fenn not to you? What can be riches new and old be considered to Forrest Fenn not to you? What is worth the cold considered to Forrest Fenn not to you? What is being brave considered to Forrest Fenn not to you?

    A mind of a mult-millionaire, and a former AF pilot, shot down, investigated by the feds, who is tough as nails and spits out nails in his prime, is not the same as a mind of a non-millionaire or regular joe-smo. Just my opinion.

    • VG,
      I enjoyed reading your post.. I get the impression that you can stand off at a distance a little and enjoy this a bit more than some of the money chasers. There are some people here, that just want to be part of the puzzle solving, and some here for the money and fame. Maybe we can get into the feelings that FF has in the poem. Please bring more insight.

      • @WishIwasRich – I appreciate that. And yes so true…I somewhat keep my distance although present and ready to fire when I desire.

        You know I really do enjoy reading comments of those who are on the Chase and who actually hit the road, canyons, and get down, dirty and wet as well as enjoy reading comments of those who are just sitting at home trying to solve it, knowing they are not leaving their home to search for it but looking to spoil the fun for every other Chasers w/kids out there on the Hunt for the Thrill of it.

        As far as Chasing the Treasure Trove for the sake of the valuables/money…well I personally say if one is in financial trouble or in a financial hole today I doubt their frame of mind will be in the proper state to solve the Poem as one may definitely be desperate and quickly be angered or agitated with the complexity of the Poem and when out in the search for the Treasure Trove, then striking out on his or her hot spots, that desperation, anger and agitation will immediately create discouragement, demotivation…to put it plainly…cause that person to give-up. Forrest Fenn didn’t give-up! He did it tired till he was weak. Right when he wrote that first word in the Poem to the last and getting everything ready to secret the Trove and to go through with it all…which I believe took him many years!

        As for me attempting to solve this poem is the challenge which I crave! I see in locating the Treasure Trove as a success of challenging myself and receiving a reward in the form of a Treasure Trove for accomplishing it and not giving-up.

        Now if I happen to succeed in claiming the title to Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Trove and if Forrest Fenn would like to see and hear me explain to the world, via television, as to how I solved his Poem and located his Trove I would do so as a token of my appreciation to him…that would be the least I can do for the man who provided this fun adfennture into my life and if fame results of it so be it as I clearly understand that it comes with the territory.

        Now as far as more insight…Well in my opinion one must THINK as Forrest Fenn has stated. One example could be the word COLD within his Poem. In my opinion say two people are in a swimming pool one person might say “the water is cold” and the other person will say “you’re crazy it’s warm”. Also say there are two people in the woods and they both see Bigfoot coming towards them one person might go cold and freezes-up with fear while the other either ran for his dear life or began tossing stones or picked up a pretty thick piece of wood to combat the Bigfoot for a few rounds…maybe 1 RD.

        Words within the Poem have many meanings which many have discovered and it’s why no one has solved it. Listen…everyone can say they have seen a Flower but have they really seen a Flower? Have they really seen a Flower through a microscope or magnifine glass? Have they held a Flower for more than 1 minute really staring at it and smelling it and appreciating it? So I say…have people really read the Poem?

    • Hi VG,
      As much as I appreciate your points I must at least counter them with another point of view, that is that Forrest is really no different than you and me. Do you have a million dollars or do I? When I add up my house, my pension, savings etc? What does it matter anyway? I think ff is in the “what does it matter anyway” camp. So I tend to read his poem as though you wrote it, or I wrote it. However my mind would need rocket boosters to write a poem that would keep treasure seekers busy for years but satisfied in the end.

  18. While not exactly related to the poem, I got my ttotc book yesterday! Can’t wait to start reading it.

  19. The way FF wrote he wishes now he had left the paper money in the chest seems to make me think someone has emailed him with the correct location and it will not be long now.

    • There have been searchers within 500 ft of the the treasure, they had the 1st and 2nd clues correct and then went astray after that and lost out. You MUST solve what I think is the most vital part of the chase once you get to your location 1. where to seach? and 2. what is the blaze?

      • Forrest Fenn could have told everyone that he hid his Treasure Trove in a Mega Shopping Mall in Dallas, Texas and many would be running and searching through every shopping mall in Dallas.

        Let’s say many found the right shopping mall where the treasure was hidden by Forrest Fenn, you know the Mall that is painted Brown in color or in several colors that would make the color Brown.

        Everyone begins their search by the water fountain for when you press the water fountain to take a drink the water will be high in an arch formation and…drinking cold water that was warm to begin with but turned cold through the filtered system.

        Well anyways you then they take the escalator down that is right there by that water fountain….but wait how would everyone know which water fountain to take a drink from where warm waters halted, what if there are many water fountains throughout the Mall which there will be, and what if there is beautiful waterfall display within the Mall? Would many start there as there too water would be high with heavy loads of people walking and shopping above you on the upper levels?

        Oh sure many would run straight to the sporting goods department’s fishing section bypassing the rest of the poems clues as many are doing now in the real Chase and will not find the trove and are not finding it.

        My point is that even if we all knew the exact shopping mall where would we start the search? IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT even with the same Poem!

        The Rocky Mountains is no shopping mall it’s 3,000 miles of awesomeness!

      • Hi, these are two separate things. 1. People getting the first two clues right in an email to FF. 2. “I know that at least a few people have been within 500 feet of the treasure” I am paraphrasing the latter but it is close to what he said. He used the words few and people.

      • Did he say “Searchers went 500 ft of the treasure” or “People went 500ft of the treasure?

    • Hi, Susan – Why would FF wish he had left the $$ bills in the chest just because someone emailed him with the correct location? He should be glad he didn’t add them. Plus if I had given him a $1000 bill to commemorate our working together, I would be very insulted if he cared so little about it as to give it away to someone else. I know she’s dead, but it should be important to him as a gift between friends by which to remember her – not just a piece of spendable money. That’s what I don’t understand. Other things in the treasure chest were found by him, but that was a personal gift. Didn’t FF say he would no longer accept communications?

      • Becky, I have a new theory that will probably be very unpopular. FF worked hard for many years gathering the chest and its contents. If the chest were found, he probably wants it to be kept in tack and displayed in a museum. Not split up and sold off to who knows. The most likely party that could do this is our Federal Government. So where did he hide it?

        • I don’t think there is any way a person could keep the treasure intact unless it was all donated to a non-profit organization because of the large amount of taxes that would have to be paid to the IRS. And I wouldn’t suggest that anyone try to keep it a secret from them as the fines would be very hefty if you were found out! I’m guessing the taxes on $1million in treasure would be about $300K. If found this year, it could be displayed for a while until taxes were due April 15, 2014. 🙂

      • Dollarbill – Hi. How’re ya? Must have missed your post. Ummmm, about the $$$ bills – I think it’s odd & doesn’t fit.

        I did hear him mention that he would hope that whoever gets the treasure would put it in a museum. Why didn’t he just do that himself to begin with? It’s odd. Can’t imagine the recipient would want to turn loose of it, but that takes me once again to something I asked previously – what do you do with it? I mean 2 gold nuggets weighing more that a pound each – duh, I think I’ll hang them on my charm bracelet. I surely WOULD want to keep them along with everything else just because it’s mine.

        But those $$$ bills really bug me. Why even tell us that he put them in, took them out, & now wishes he hadn’t removed them? He probably did those very same things with lots of other items, don’t you think?

  20. Susan I haven’t emailed Forrest Fenn yet so I highly doubt that. Besides I’m not going to email Forrest Fenn but instead first email Dal photos and a awesome video of the process I went through in me solving the Poem and finding the true X spot of Forrest Fenn’s trove so that Dal may post within this blog and I will have Dal notify Forrest Fenn for me and I will be using Dal as a sort of a mediator to Forrest Fenn and myself and Dal will be compensated well for all that he’s done…But if there are strict instructions within the Jar, found within the trove, with Forrest Fenn saying not to contact anyone but a special cell # to call then Dal will not be contacted.

  21. … and the first and last 2 letters of the poem, spell DAL’S 🙂 That’s got to be some type of mojo.


    I believe you recently commented that you have seen the poem title represented in various ways (small letters, vs capital). I also see that the poem itself is sometimes center-justified (as in the book), or left-justified (as on the website).

    Do you, or anyone, have any thoughts as to whether the arrangement of the poem is important, or more using it as word and phrases to be solved.


    • Most definitey astree….just as your username astree….that is also a clue! Forrest Fenn said to THINK so THINK! With Forrest Fenn there is no such thing as over-thinking….over-thinking will take you to true imagination. OPEN THE MIND!

    • I certainly do not know. But I do know that the one in Forrests’ book is the one that would matter…if any of them did..

    • Thank-you both, comments appreciated.

      VG, if one thing’s known, it is that Forrest is a well-studied man.

      Trying to look at the poem from all the angles – word / phrase clues, directional clues, groups of 9, and structural layout of the poem. The backdrop of the pondering is … what is the overall objective that Forrest hopes to achieve? Get a place in history, teach us some deeper things about himself (and life), etc … ?

      It’s easy to get caught up in the Google, detailed map and historical facts approach, because it doesn’t hurt the noodle as much as digging into the poem. Use that as a break, at times, but I don’t have a strong inclination that it’s going to solve the poem. More like candy rustling, I guess.

      Anyway, good luck, great puzzle Forrest has laid out. Glad to see it’s gaining some steam.


      • Astree,
        The approach I have taken since the beginning of my search has always been the understanding of the man. I figured that if I could understand Fenn better, than that would be extremely valuable in understanding the things he would do and places he would go to in his earlier days. Reading of his book, I feel is the best way to address solutions to his handling of the poem. Without that in-depth understanding, we would be nothing more then chickens with our heads cut off. Just imagine how many people known and unknown have already attempted to solve the poem with no insight and yet none of them have come forth with the chest.

        Myself, I will only be making one trip out. Not that I will say I will bring back the chest, as much as I will say I missed something in my understanding of Forrest.

        • germanguy
          If you have not gone anywhere looking for the chest, how can you say you have approached anything except the arm chair you are still sitting on?
          I will consider your advice but only after you had actually gone somewhere.
          There are actually two parts to this do you not think so?
          I am not being mean or want to make you mad but your advice is lacking experience and you are free to state your mind but it lacks credibility but only in my opinion.

          • Tim,

            I have stated my point (opinion), and feel I have done it very well (again my own opinion), but if you feel that understanding as much as you can about Fenn is not necessary, then that is your choice and of course your opinion. However, I have stated that I will be making only one trip out. I am a disabled Vietnam veteran who because of his issue with PTSD, can handle challenges only to a point. I don’t have your luxury of going as often as you would like. So to criticize me for making what I considered a valid point in uncovering motivations that led Forrest to make the choice he did in hiding his chest, is highly unfair. Believe me I would give anything to spend the rest of my life in your shoes and not the ones I have been issued. One of things I share with Fenn, is I too am a survivor of cancer. So that my friend gives me “one up” on you. I mean no harm in any of my comments as many who have listened to my comments here will confirm. In closing, I would like to say, everyone has a right to their opinion, just don’t ridicule them publicly.

          • Tim-
            You need to sit back and relax. No reason to insult people here. This is a forum where we honor others opinions…or at least try to..
            Crank your understanding and tolerance up a notch please. Germanguy has provided hundreds of valuable posts and good advice on this site. He also has a great sense of humor and has really gone all out to be of service here. I appreciate that, and request that you do too…okay??

    • .
      One more thing, VGBSS, re: the book – been down that road, found some extremely encouraging info, haven’t closed the loop on it yet. Time will tell but a strong contender.

      • @astree

        No question there are a few strong contenders on this Chase and then there is that 1 extremely strong contender! It’s going to be interesting when that snow and ice really begins to melt and not only to do some trout fishing, hiking, etc…and might as well pick-up Forrest Fenn’s Trove while in the area as well.

        Good Luck astree and remember to take a sandwich and a flashlight!

  22. Struggling with your direction of solve, Louderback. If you are saying that Forrest encrypted lat/long coordinates, or addresses, or phone numbers or number of paces from spot to spot, or something else numerical into the poem, then we will have to agree to disagree. To put even one set of numbers (which theoretically designate one spot, right?) in the right order to make sense, and then have them match up to words, and then have those words make a semi-coherent sentence, and then make them rhyme (sort of), and then do that for 9 stanzas would be a Herculean puzzling feat.

    Or maybe I am missing your point.

    • I agree. I’m come to that conclusion as well. He uses simple words to make it seem simple once your there, but if others were within 500 ft and didn’t see it. I think it means the blaze is a tricky one and not the obvious items I’m thinking about or can see on google earth. So my theories on the blaze being obvious are most likely all wrong and a +500 ft area in the forest is a huge distance to be wondering around in if you don’t find it. Since he keeps saying you need to be there and not rely on a map, I think it’s small and local to the area.

      • I don’t think you’re completely wrong… it will be obvious somewhat, but in the poem I beleive he is hinting that we have to search for the blaze as well and when we find it we’ll know it. In other words it will be obvious but difficult.

  23. .
    AZ .. I have gone alone in there.

    Where Arizona can mean both “spring water” and “wood (oak)”

  24. The “house” (home) itself gave rise to the letter ‘B’ through an early Proto-Semitic hieroglyphic symbol depicting a house. The symbol was called “bayt”, “bet” or “beth” in various related languages, and became beta, the Greek letter, before it was used by the Romans… (maybe the reason for the capitol B in Brown?)… In Irish and Ogham, letters were formerly named after trees, for example A was ailm (white fir), B was beith (birch) and C was coll (hazel).

    so maybe we are looking for a Brown BirdHouse in a Birch tree on a washed out creek bank… reason to look quickly down? in the exposed roots from the heavy loads and water high?

  25. Halt definition

    lame on the feet (Gen. 32:31; Ps. 38:17). To “halt between two opinions” (1 Kings 18:21) is supposed by some to be an expression used in “allusion to birds, which hop from spray to spray, forwards and backwards.” The LXX. render the expression “How long go ye lame on both knees?” The Hebrew verb rendered “halt” is used of the irregular dance (“leaped upon”) around the altar (ver. 26). It indicates a lame, uncertain gait, going now in one direction, now in another, in the frenzy of wild leaping.

  26. louderback,
    Yeah. There’s a couple on the edge of White Rock canyon near Los Alamos that dump into the Rio Grand. Shear drops-offs and everything. Knock yourself out, but try not to get lost like the chick in Bandelier.

    PS…Do you really think FF’s idea of a final resting place is to be buried next to sewage?

  27. “Hey, does that CLOUD over there look like DAL”, “YEP, he’s watching over FORREST’s BONES…”

    LOVE THAT! And I doubt anyone’s particular clue will “set off a stampede.” Why should the rest of the searchers assume that one particular person is correct, when so many have been wrong? And I really cannot imagine that Forrest would have hidden his treasure near a waste treatment plant. IMHO.

  28. Hello all, new to the page. Just a quick comment for now. Is it correct to assume that the anwser to each clue is unique and cannot be something general like a city?

    • I think I already own 2 of them – George Washington & Varrazano Narrows. Still waiting for my book – a long time. No one can find WV to deliver it, I guess.

      Clue about water high. FF tends to write his descriptive words out of order – treasures bold/canyon down etc. I think water high does NOT mean that there is deep water, but that the searcher is high up. Probably covered that somewhere y’all did & it I missed. To me, sense it makes. Anybody else?

        • @Tweetest….no question there’s loads of water up in those Rocky Mountains.

          ‘warm waters” vs “water high” …his use of waters vs water?

          Tweetest it’s like the comment that I posted up top within this page about a drinking water fountain inside a shopping mall. You drink water from a water fountain and you enjoy its coldness but it was actually warm to begin with but made cold by the filtered and cooling system, etc…it made it cold for you to enjoy and while you’re bending your knees, hunching over, lowering your neck, dropping your head and moving it sideways to get a drink of that arching water like waterfall…making it water high…”where warm waters halt and waters high….a water fountain inside a mall. Using this as an example to make a point.

          Many people are trying to solve the warm waters part of the poem to get a starting point but this warm waters must eventually lead waters high in my opinion. Noone has solved this “where warm water halt”…but there are many who say they have solved it but yet they don’t have the Treasure Trove in their possession.

          In my opinion Warm Waters might start in 1 State and flow to another State by way of river then it halts and BOOM there’s a WATERFALL. I don’t know just my opinion. Clues could range from State to State meaning a clue might be in State, another clue at another State, so on and so forth…which by the way no one wants to talk about within this blog as it would takes lots of MONEY (heavy loads) to look at the poem and attempt to solve it in this manner. Just my opinion.

          • VGBOSS…..”but there are many who say they have solved it but yet they don’t have the Treasure Trove in their possession.”
            as for me I’ll wait a few more months and give everybody more Chase time, I’m so thoughtful and vain

          • Interesting you mention starting in another state. On Merriam-Websters online dictionary, “Warm water” is an ocean or sea not in the arctic or antarctic regions. Of course, that would leave you starting at the Arctic or Antarctic circle. I actually laughed to myself when I found a creek in Alaska near the Arctic Circle called “Your Creek”.

          • Not sure if this even matters, but in his book he talked about why bronze feels cold. It’s because your hands are warm. So, warm/cold could very well be a matter of opinion and circumstance. (like a pool feeling warm to one person or cold to another)

        • Although not a perfect rhyme, “halt” works better with “walk”.
          “not far, but too far to walks”… no good. Follow my drift?

          • Yes, Hemmingway. I do. Thanks so much. Been driftin’ for a-ways myself – without a paddle.
            What elses you gots? Gimme more! I want more!

          • So I’ve been turning this over for a while but couldn’t “take it in the canyon down” mean to enter where the canyon comes down? In other words, go up the canyon from its end. Point?

          • Stu, interesting thought. Though, I am having difficulty visualizing this concept. How does the previous line “Begin it where warm waters halt” and the next line “Not far but too far to walk” fit in?

          • Dollar,
            The WWWH is just below the canyon.. Insert your idea ger: A dam, hot springs, etc.

          • Okay, I see it now. Good interpretation. Definitely one that should be considered by all.

          • I’ve thought the same thing; sort of the way one would say “walk down the road”. It doesn’t necessarily mean you are going down in elevation. Especially when you take into account the limitations of trying to make things rhyme (in this case with “brown”).

          • … and depending on the ROAD … you may even have to “TURN AROUND” to get into the “CANYON DOWN” …

          • Naw, Begin it wwwh and take it intcd. Not far, btftw. Consider: Begin at point A, GO to and IN point B. Point B is not far from point A. DOWN, ok, yes, might be elevation or south???f

          • I don’t think you have to really go IN the canyon, maybe just follow it to its end. its either not far from point A to B, or the canyon in not Far…. use as needed for your spot. NOW what about home of Brown ????

          • Stu…once you have solved where warm waters halt, you will have options as to the meaning of take it in the canyon down…might mean a couple of things. Proceed logically.

          • After striking out all around the obvious places he mentions in the book, I’m going to look at the places he doesn’t mention. The man lived a long time around the Montana, Idaho, Wy area and then another long stretch in Santa Fe and he says they were drivers and so 100 mile drive was nothing.

            After all, he didn’t want this thing found for 1000 yrs, so why would he give us the spot in the book or send photos of the spot. He is crafty, his clues are always indirect. I need to find out more about his life outside of the book.

      • Yeah, I spent some time researching lakes in the rockies and their elevations. For example, Jackson Lake near Yellowstone is one of the highest elevation lakes. But I didn’t get very far with it.

        • Derrick-
          I looked at Jackson Lake too. What interested me about that entire string of lakes is that they all drain into the Snake…The canyon of the Snake is just around the bottom of the Tetons…I kept trying to make something work around all that…but never did…

          • Dal – is Jackson Lake the lake that offers a boat shuttle to other side or is it Jenny lake? I have nothing leading me there but thought I would throw the shuttle out there as a possibility to search new places. But you and other veteran chasers have probably covered this one too. I was in the park last summer for the first time but with a tour group and hope to go back again w/o a guide.

          • Dal, I hope this will post at the bottom. April 11 is up where you posted the U-tube link, Time for 7?

          • It is Jenny Lake, but you don’t need the shuttle to access the other side–there is a short trail that can take you around!

      • I think that is a definite possibility. When I was sharing the poem with my mother, she mentioned the idea of high water marks that sometimes appear on a bridge. Maybe an old railroad bridge (heavy loads) with high water marks? Just another idea I had.

        • … but it’s been said that Bridges and Culverts are Structures that are PERIODICALLY maintained by maintenance crews… to stumble upon… us CHASERS are going to have to be in the wood…

        • Hey Derrick,

          … but it’s been said that Bridges and Culverts are Structures that are PERIODICALLY maintained by maintenance crews… to stumble upon… us CHASERS are going to have to be in the wood…

          … just a thought.

          • Getting organized. If I have read and listened to everything FF has offered regarding the poem and the chest’s hiding place, I would ask and answer myself the following questions when considering the poem and clues and before performing a field search.

            Do I think FF cares if his treasure is split up after being found? If I think he would care, then he would probably hide the chest somewhere in the Rockies such that the finder would most likely be someone or entity who could and would keep the chest and its contents intact and possibly available for public viewing (like Indian Reservation, Federal land, or State land). If I think that FF didn’t care, then FF could have hidden the chest anywhere in the Rockies.

            Do I think that FF is so upset with the Feds that he would not hide it on Federal land? Do I think that FF would hide his chest on Indian land? Do I think that FF would hide his chest on State land? Do I think that FF would hide his chest on County or City land? Do I think FF would hide his chest on someone else’s private land? Do I think that FF owns land in the Rockies that I am not aware of? Answering these questions could narrow my search areas.

            Where do I think FF would hide his chest? Do I think it would be in a warm dry area where his bones would last longer? Do I think he would he hide it along a canyon stream which he enjoyed? Do I think he would hide it amidst a camp ground? Answering these or other such similar questions, could lead me to a general landscape that I should look in.

            Do I think FF would bury the chest, even if ever so slightly? Do I think FF would hide it in the waters of a stream? Do I think FF would hide it amongst rocks? Do I think FF would hide it amongst trees? Do I think that FF would hide it in heavy brush? Answering these could lead me to a specific landscape that I should search.

            What transportation do I think FF used to hide his chest? Do I think he flew part of the way? Do I think he drove all the way or part of the way? Did he need 4 wheel drive? Do I think he used a canoe or raft for some part of his journey? How far do I think he hiked/walked when hiding the chest? Answering these could lead me to identifying some special features associated with his hiding place (like a nearby airport, a road, a live stream, a trail).

            Do I think that FF would leave a mark identifying the chest is nearby? Do I think that there is an amazing feature nearby where the chest is hidden? If so, why do I think these things? Is my wild imagination leading me astray? Answering these will determine how much importance I put on x marks the spot.

            What do I think the nine clues are that will direct me to the chest? Does my interpretation of these clues lead to an area that matches my understandings of FF? Have I considered other interpretations and selected the best ones knowing FF? How much tunnel vision do I have? Am I being biased in any way? Answering these will give me confidence in the areas that I want to search for the chest.

            Now I am ready to look for and select a place(s) to go search.

            Am I aware of the laws governing searching for treasure at the places where I want to search? Can I use a metal detector? Can I dig holes? Can I cut down trees? Can I clear bushes? Will I be trespassing? Are guns allowed? Is the treasure mine if I find it? Am I prepared with a plan after finding the treasure?

            When is the best time of year to go searching where I want to search? Have I checked recent weather forecasts for my search area(s)?

            Am I prepared for the hazards/hardships that I might encounter? Do I know what to do if I encounter a wild carnivorous creature? Do I know how to make a campfire? Do I know how to make a shelter? Do I know how to sterilize creek water? Can I recognize poison ivy? What do I do if I am attacked by bees? Is hypothermia a potential problem? What should I do if I get lost?

            If my transportation breaks down, am I prepared for it? Do I have funds for unplanned crises?

            Do I have the essentials (food, water, first aid, clothing, gps, implements, back pack, etc) necessary for where I am going to search?

            Have I informed someone of my itinerary so if I do not return as planned, help will be on its way?

            Want to add or dispute anything?

          • Whoa there, Dollarbill! Halt! When FF said THINK you listened up, didn’t you? I hope the hazards/hardships does not come into play. I always have my emergency kit with me – a can of hairspray & an extra pair of pantyhose.

            How can one man have so many special places? Oh, not you – I mean FF. What did he say he put his 20,000 word bio in? Was it an olive jar?

          • Becky hairspray and panty hose can get you out of some major jams! Sounds like you have all you need!! (Seriously boys if you need a flare when your lost…) Dollarbill that was amazing! j

            Sent from my iPhone

          • >> EMERGENCY Hair Spray & Stockings…

            Becky & Jen, I can just see you and McGyver & McGruber now…

            “QUICK, Becky hand me your Emergency Hair Spray & Stockings !!!”

            Word to the “WISE”… hand them to McGyver… that McGruber guy gets “BLAZED” every time… McGruber really shouldn’t be playing with MATCHeS…

          • Becky, I think you are correct about the olive jar. My understanding is the jar is sealed too.

          • … but if he made TWO TRIPS … in SEALING it can’t be that disfigured … GLUE around the lid after the second trip at the most …

            The Treasure was carried “INTO THERE” in two trips …

          • But did Mr F say he made two trips to carry the treasure or did he just say he made two trips…? He may have made one trip to make sure no one was around his hiding spot.

          • See Scrapbook 29. FF said “Maybe that’s why a 79 year old man had to make two trips to hide the treasure.” Notice the word “maybe”. I think that he made one trip to find the location and the second trip to take the chest to it.

          • I agree Bill…however I think he already knew the location of where he wanted it to be. A place that he and his father found while fishing many years ago.
            I believe it is hidden just above a creek/river/waterway looking down on a spot that he and his father fished together.

          • >> I think that he made one trip to find the location and the second trip to take the chest to it.

            If Forrest’s gait is slow and calculated for an 80-Year Old Man, I doubt that a 42LB Chest with NO HANDLES made it “IN THERE” in one trip…

            Go to the GROCERY STORE and PICK-UP a 40LB BAG of DOG FOOD (just to judge the weight, you don’t have to buy it) and bet back with us DOLLARBILL…

            HOW FAR were you able to WALK with that 40LBS would be the next QUESTION…

            …and the BOX is not SQUISHY like a BAG and The BOX has NO HANDLES …

            I’m thinking two 20LB trips to the HIDEY SPOT and back to his car.

          • SantaFe…if F put that same 42 pound chest in a cooler with wheels and a handle…how far could he take it then…?

          • >> 42 pound chest in a cooler with wheels and a handle…how far could he take it then…?

            Rick, You’re 80-YEARS OLD… have you picked up YOUR 40LB BAG of DOG FOOD yet ?

            The FIRST thing that PEOPLE are going to do when they see that BOX is MIS-JUDGE its WEIGHT…

            … maybe that was what Forrest was LAUGHING OUT LOUD about on his way back to the car …

            Forrest also said when the box was found that you would be SUPRISED… by its WEIGHT no doubt…

            Small doesn’t mean light, and remember Forrest is 80-Years old… not ready for a RUCK RUN… as they say in the MARINES…

            WHEELS leave TRACKS… not FOOT PRINTS… you may get it out that way in a “Cooler with Wheels” ( I think one of the Women came up with that plan for REMOVAL of the chest ) we’ll have to wait and see…

          • LOL…SF…I do not need to pick up any dog food. I do construction work and I am always moving/carrying 60 plus pound buckets ( 5 gallon ) of material. The reference to the cooler was nothing more than a way F could have moved the chest…okay…so it leaves wheel tracks…here is another example…Mr F parked his vehicle by a creek/river and used an inner tube to float the chest down a waterway…now no more wheel tracks… 🙂

            I wonder how far away from his vehicle he left the chest…any thoughts…? 1/4 of a mile…1/2…3/4…?

          • Good Day, Santa Fe. I’m getting me a 10x10x5 inch box & loading it up with 42 pounds of dense material to see exactly what it’s like to lift & carry it.

            Why do you think FF said “tarry scant”? If I had to hike up a mountain or down a canyon, I would want to sit down & check out the contents of the treasure box. If I’m all alone up some ravine in the rocks & trees, why not enjoy my success?

            One other issue – you watched the video of the psychologist, right? Me too. He said FF laughed out loud. But then I watched a video where FF actually said “I walked back to my car smiling. I was proud of myself.” Proud?

            Some good ideas being posted today. Got dressed for the first time in 3 days. Going to Chinese buffet, library, & Kmart. Whar’s my BOOK? Probably hidden with the treasure. Later, Tater.

          • >> Wouldn’t it be hallarious to picture someone MIS-JUDGING the weight of a SMALL 10″ x 10″ box… the PROUD and the LAUGH were separate statements…

            “After I hid the treasure I walked back to my car feeling very proud of myself and laughing out loud,” he said. “I asked, ‘Forrest, did you really do that?’ There have never been any regrets. Now it is for the ages and a big part of me in that treasure chest. I felt it go in as I closed the lid for the last time.”

            Only Forrest knows…

          • For me, whether it’s 1 or 2 trips is irrelevant. But why would he lie about it?

            I travel a lot with up to 3 computers in my backpack and 30 lbs is a lot. You need a good hoking backpack for that kind of weight at 80 yrs old. But now imagine it’s close to the 50 lb airline travel limit and on your back.

            It was two trips.

          • Why is this a big deal? Maybe he brought the chest in one trip, brought the contents in another trip…put them together and hid them…then walked back to his car laughing and smiling…

          • All:
            Noting that the poem is on pg 132 of the book, and on pg 133 is found a hazy focused map with gold nuggets, a gold coin, etc placed over it, would you consider this map possibly a “subtle” hint in the location of the chest?

          • @Historian

            Forrest Fenn’s Poem is so awesome, clever, genius, and simply perfect that anything that you see, hear, touch, taste, smell or any word you speak out of your mouth is a subtle hint to the location of his Treasure Trove. So the answer to your question is yes. That’s my opinion.

          • Historian

            That is worth looking at.

            The other thing I noticed is that the 6 stanzas of the poem on p. 132 are divided 1 – 3 – 2.

            1 stanza as intro
            3 stanza as the core
            2 as wrap-up


          • i like that historian… it is hard to make out though.. but could be north central new mmexico.. ive put two different magnifying glasses on it but cant hardly make out a word! he probably did that on purpose too 🙂

          • To me it’s only relevant, Stephanie, in the sense that it shows with carrying a reasonable amount of weight in his pack for a man of his age…twice he walked back..happy and smiling, not huffing and puffing or groaning in pain and crawling on his hands and knees lol.

          • Owls, death, wisdom, Athena, omega….double omega would be the end of the end which is the beginning.

          • @viper244 – The beginning will be anything that Forrest Fenn wants it to be…Never forget… 85% fact/15% fiction…Dbl Omega the END-ot-END (85%fact)…..and the beginning_________?(15%fiction). That’s only my opinion.

          • Whoa Armany Thursday – “Dangerously Good Insights”

            >> it shows with carrying a reasonable amount of weight in his pack for a man of his age…twice he walked back..happy and smiling,

            >> not huffing and puffing or groaning in pain and crawling on his hands and knees

            “I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak” but still had the ENERGY to LAUGH OUT LOUD.

            “Dangerously Good Insights” – WELCOMED & PREFERRED.

          • Thanks Armany and VGBOSS. So having both a set of 1885 and 1892 encyclopedias, I could narrow down and define exactly what this map is and the year. Its an 1888 Rand McNally & Co. Family Atlas Map of northern New Mexico, the portion above the gold items essentially starts at Santa Fe, the center portion is the Taos mountains, with the far upper portion fading out the area of Colorado.

            Hence the northern uncovered portion emphasizes the mountains north of Santa Fe, and south of Colorado.

            Since this is on the opposite facing page to the poem, it may just have more than a minor significance, another piece to consider.

          • @Historian – That is correct. You’re going to get tired and weak with your eyes getting a great workout looking at those maps. I recommend you drink some Dr. Peppers while viewing those maps. Just my opinion.

          • He actually talks about taos mountain, so its not a surprise about the map. Richards got a blog about it. Forrest also has made a quirky comment th

          • I can carry my daughter. She’s about 50lbs. My hubby can lift 40lbs of weight so not everyone will need 2 trips in to get I don’t think….. I’m guessing we are missing the forest by looking at the trees with the “how many trips in” part. j

            Sent from my iPhone

          • Jen,
            I can carry my daughter. She’s about 50lbs. My hubby can lift 40lbs of weight so not everyone will need 2 trips in to get I don’t think….. I’m guessing we are missing the forest by looking at the trees with the “how many trips in” part. j

            what we are trying to figure out is how far did f carry the chest from where he parked…if he carried all 42 pounds then most likely he did not carry it too far…but if he carried only half of it at a time he could have went further.

          • Rick,

            Thanks for sharing, I have seen that idea before on this blog (maybe from you), but IMO a rolling cooler is a little far-fetched…I have rolled a cooler filled with probably 40 lbs of ice and drinks across a stretch of grass to set up shop along the first base line of my son’s baseball games, and after about 50 yards I am pretty much ready to stop and chug a barley pop. However, my interpretation of “no place for the meek” doesn’t include a sidewalk or paved trail of any kind, so if your’s does than it could be possible. In addition, I think a rolling cooler would stick out pretty badly anywhere but a family friendly park or beach, not on a hike up a trail above 5000 feet. Any hikers you encountered would probably pay special attention to you, something that I believe Forrest wouldn’t have wanted.

            As far as Forrest being able to pack in 40 pounds, that is really not that heavy of a load in a backpack, and Forrest looks to be in great shape. If he took 2 trips in, I think the first one was recon to make sure there wasn’t a picnic going on at his spot, and then packed in the loaded chest on the second trip. Too dangerous to pack in half of it, leave it unattended, and then go get the rest…I think. If you believe the hidey hole, as it has become known, is very accessible and easy to stash things in quickly, then half the treasure wouldn’t have been exposed and it could have been done. My interpretation of the spot, however, is a stone or wood outcropping that would require some work to get the box placed and concealed with more rocks, not a quick hide. Half of the contents would have been exposed for too long.

            BTW, the last time I went to my location, the only person I passed on my way out was a lady, probably 75 to 80 years old, hiking up on a snow packed trail with a full pack. It is a 1200 foot incline over a 2 to 3 mile trail, and almost at 10,000 feet. Hope I can do that at that age (and I think Forrest can/could)

          • Hi Scott,
            I think the chest is close to or even over looking a creek/river that F fished with his father years ago. With that being said my way of thinking is more like this…if a person is fishing a creek and is going to walk down that creek for several hours fishing different spots…then a person might take along a cooler with refreshments and drag it along the bank as they move down or up stream ( I always fish from a boat ). With that being said…I think it would be normal to see someone with a cooler along a creek.
            Maybe I am way off with my thoughts

          • Could be, thanks for your thoughts…when I fish, I always try to have one of those helmets with 2 beer cans and a long sippin’ device.

          • … You don’t need a COOLER in COLD WATER FISHING …

            There’s a commercial out on TV now where an OUTDOORSMAN reaches into a MOUNTAIN STREAM to pull out a DR.PEPPER-10 Calories soda… or “BARLEY SODA” as the case may be…

            … proceeds to BREAK ICE off of his FOREARM down to the SODA to pull the TAB on the CAN…

            COOLERS may very well be “OUT OF PLACE”, at least as LOCALS VIEW THEM… on a COLD MOUNTAIN STREAM…

          • LOL…even in a National park area where folks come from out of state and don`t know coolers should not be used…? 🙂 No need to answer…all of this discussion was about how F transported the chest…any other clues…?
            How far does anyone think he took the chest from his vehicle…?

          • LOL Rick,


            You’ve spent too much time FISHING from a boat… wait till you have to carry supplies in… and remember you have to CARRY OUT what you CARRY IN… no TRASH LEFT behind…

            From Forrest…

            “After I hid the treasure I walked back to my car feeling very proud of myself and laughing out loud,” he said. “I asked, ‘Forrest, did you really do that?’ There have never been any regrets. Now it is for the ages and a big part of me in that treasure chest. I felt it go in as I closed the lid for the last time.”

            “I felt it go in as I closed the lid for the last time.”

            … only Forrest knows …

          • LMAO…I ain`t carrying nuttin…I am dragging it in a cooler and leaving tracks… 🙂

          • lol rick.. you’ll be carrying it..trust me.. every trail i hiked was riddled with rocks wood cacti carcasses (ok not really) but them trails are no place for coolers with wheels! 🙂

          • I feel like I am on a po-go stick bouncing up and down trying to read these post

          • Hello Becky,

            Found the QUOTE in DAL’s list of MEDIA INTERVIEWS… You can probably search this BLOG for it… if not look on DAL’s list of media interviews.

          • Thank you, Santa Fe Smart. If someone finds the treasure before FF has had all of his media experiences – tv, radio, newspapers – he will be very disappointed, don’t you think? I mean he wants us to enjoy the Thrill of the Chase & he wants to leave his legacy. Do you think his hopes & plans would be dashed?

          • VGBOSS, not sure what you are implying, but i can and have perused old maps and documents for days and long hours and still be fresh as a spring.

            F is crafty, i’m not really sure how old, weak and tired he really was at the time, he works very hard in his comments to throw one off the trail, hence to make the pervue area seem larger than it is.

            Certainly in F’s shoes, we would have all been very proud and laughing at the accomplishment of laying this treasure with great craft, and more so if we had stretched our capabilities through an enduring situation, hence to a place where the meek would be at ease.

            He still had a logistics problem if in or near a well traveled stream, it would have taken time to assemble the box and the treasure, place in the jar, fasten, and either raise or lower the 40+ LB object to the hidden, but not buried spot, thus with the potential of being discovered or seen at the time. Thus enters the “water high” aspect, potentially determining when he did it.

          • @Becky from WV – I personally do not believe that Forrest Fenn’s hopes and plans would be dashed…on the contrary he would work around it to his advantage. We must not forget that while in the Air Force he was shot down and rose up even stronger. He will adapt for he is quite resourceful! That’s my opinion.

          • VGBOSS – But he still has all those books to sell. After the treasure is located, why would anyone by the book? I mean FEWER people would be interested, then 10% to cancer would cease, & FF might lose his momentum. All of us would also be affected.

          • People would still buy Forrest Fenn’s books far after his Trove is discovered, BELIEVE ME! I’ve said before within this blog, somewhere, that this Thrill of the Chase is BIG! Bigger than what the Trove is worth. In my opinion.

          • Very good comments all.

            Does anyone think the map on page 133 is a subtle hint?

          • I really doubt two trips were made because of the following reasons. First he has said said that “the spot was dear to to him” he would not have had to go find a spot and come back to hid the chest. Second: A small 42 pound chest in a backpack would be a LOT easier to tote than a bulky BIG bag of anything. Forrest may not be as spry as he was in his youth as most of us are not but I have seen 80+ year olds doing amazing things for someone their age. Also remember FF has stayed pretty active and is no couch potato. Just my own opinion

          • PTN, what is a sandwich $bill? Is that a BLT sandwiched in $bills? Must be tasty!

          • >> Is that a BLT sandwiched…

            ( In the voice & cadence of HOMER SIMPSON… ) Mmmmmm Baconnnnn…

          • Question…anyone know why some of these post go to the middle of the page…?

          • If you post an original comment, it goes to the middle. If you post a reply to any of those posts past the middle, they go anywhere below the middle. It’s fun guessing where your reply will end up. These seems to just happen after a hundred or so posts on a new thread. If you want to be the last post, reply to the previous last post.

            I can smell that Mmmmmm Baconnnnnn a cooking.

          • Oh bacon! Yum!!
            I have a million maps at home to go through, I think I’ll munch bacon and look at them this weekend! WOOT!

          • I think it happens when posts get deleted/removed. I think there was a post that was removed that had a bunch of code letters or something and that seems to be when it started happening.

          • PFW, if I send you my address, will you send me some of your bacon? It will help me concentrate on the nine clues, which is what we are suppose to be discussing.

          • Jen,

            NASCAR Martinsville had “SUGAR BACON dipped in CHOCOLATE SAUCE”…

            Author Izaak Walton called fly fishing “The Contemplative Man’s Recreation”.

            Maybe we should be FLY FISHING while CONTEMPLATING these 9-Clues… but I am ALSO not against munching on “SUGAR BACON dipped in CHOCOLATE SAUCE” while doing the same…

          • Oh let’s do it! I work better when there is food present! And fly fishing! Oh yes please! Where do I sign up?!

            Guys what if heavy loads isn’t a clue? Has anyone questioned this?

          • Jen,

            I think it is a clue. You saw the post I made way up there about line twelve. That is my interpretation of this line.

            Anyone else care to share their interpretation of line twelve…?

          • I am liking your thought process. I have read to many blogs today. I can’t keep straight what I’m reading where! Ugh! I’m “chasing a rabbit” and need to just let it go! Grrrrr j

            Sent from my iPhone

          • More of RickInFloridia’s FLY FISHING TERMS


            Loading the Rod – phrase used to describe the bend put in the rod by the weight of the line as it travels through the air during the cast.
            Unloading the Rod – unbending the rod. Transferring the casting energy from the rod back into the fly line.
            Vest – a fly fisher’s wearable tackle box; numerous styles available; particularly important in wading situations.
            Wheeled Coolers – Identifying trait of “Out of Staters”, wait how’d that get in here… 🙂


            Loading the Rod – phrase used to describe the bend put in the rod by the weight of the line as it travels through the air during the cast.
            Unloading the Rod – unbending the rod. Transferring the casting energy from the rod back into the fly line.
            Vest – a fly fisher’s wearable tackle box; numerous styles available; particularly important in wading situations.
            Weight Forward (WF) – an easy casting fly line because it carries most of its weight in the forward section of the line; instead of a level middle section, like a double taper, it quickly tapers down to a fine diameter running line which shoots through the guides with less resistance for added distance; the most versatile fly line.
            X – archaic measurement used to designate diameter of leader material used in conjunction with a numeral, as in “4X”. To determine the actual diameter of “4X” or any “X” number, subtract the numeral from the number 11 (eleven). The result is the diameter in thousandths of an inch. For example, to find the diameter of 4X material, subtract 4 from 11 (11 – 4 = 7) thus the diameter is .007″. *Note* diameter does not always correspond to breaking strength

          • Ok so really, we don’t need a boat to put in and it’s by a fly fishing spot. Makes sense. IMO not all the clues point to a geographical location but are clues about the area to help narrow it down. j

            Sent from my iPhone

          • Thanks Mike. I can’t figure out why that’s happening. It’s from my phone. Ugh…I was saying something about we don’t even know if it has to do with his fishing spot….do we? Maybe has to do with his art biz.

          • Steph we have no idea what you said. It only says “sometimes I even questi”

            Sent from my iPhone

          • Correct Jen,

            the clues will lead to a general area and the “blaze” will put you pretty much on the spot. 😉

          • I read the book for the third time this morning making notes of hints each time. I made a note the first time and while reading it again this morning it dawned on me that this is a bigger clue than I originally thought…and I am not gonna share…lol…na na na na na 🙂

          • yes, too many…But I have three areas I REALLY like…but two of them have already been searched numerous times Im sure…

          • Noone can fully search 1 area….and besides only 1 person is destined to find the Treasure Trove while others are not. So the almighty one could have blinded them from seeing it. The Treasure Trove will show itself to the right person…to the person it wants to go with.

          • I can’t because if I did it would give my spot away! Ack! I wish I could because I feel super attached to y’all!! j

            Sent from my iPhone

          • You just never ever know Rick! Ill be the girl wearing pink out there so if you see me…. ~pfw

            Sent from my iPhone

          • Jen if you were standing next to the trove today would you be able to see it?

          • In my opinion the hints in the book reflect to the area and not to any parts of the poem. With that being said…what I found could give away the area I believe it is in….sorry 🙂

          • Thats ok, I get it..I was only wondering if it was a literal hint directly from text or if you are interpreting text to mean something not actually stated.

          • Yes! To an area! From the poem I found an area and the hints reflect to that same place. The hint I am excited about doesn’t just “give it all away” hence the reason it’s a hint lol!

            Sent from my iPhone

          • Good for you Jen, I’m wondering if its the same place that I have come up with. If it is, I would like to discuss it offline if you’re up to it. Can you tell me the second letter for WWWH?

          • Oh see that’s tricky. Lol! You have to be thinking like I am to get this. You could call it one of a few names. Ill tell you i is the second letter of one. 😉 that’s not my spot, just the wwwh part. j

            Sent from my iPhone

          • If it’s really at his fishing spot…it seems to me that he talks about a moose being there…so that makes me think YNP…but I’m not convinced his special place is a fishing spot.

          • I don’t think it is. At all. It may be a fishing spot but I don’t think it’s a YSNP spot for sure

            Sent from my iPhone

          • Why not YNP…? Some of his fondest memories are from there. He said he loved the place and even called it “Paradise”…where else would a person want to rest his bones for eternity other than paradise…?

          • He also talks about if he were younger he’d go back and get it. I thought that might have been a sprinkled clue. Also, I think about my special places…they tend to be where I spent my childhood.

          • @Stephanie

            I was thinking the same thing. He talks about West Yellowstone in Montana and also the “Buffalo adventure” with his brother Skippy was in that area, too. Buffalo are big and “brown” and they ended up in a stream. LOL

          • Steve,

            the story about Cody the buffalo was hilarious…I pictured it in my mind as I was reading it.

          • I love the BuFFalo….it always pumps me up when I see those beautiful creatures.

          • That’s what the hairspray and panty hose is for! Didn’t you know?!

            On a serious note everyone be careful out there! Animals can really hurt a person if they feel threatened! j

            Sent from my iPhone

          • >> That’s what the hairspray and panty hose is for! Didn’t you know?!

            Word to the “WISE”…

            In this case you can hand hairspray & hose to McGruber…

            Point McGruber in the Direction of the Buffalo…

            “TARRY SCANT” ( OUT RUN ) McGuber to safty…

            Watch out for McGruber’s “BLAZE”…

            Finally Look out for FIRE-CINGED CHARGING BUFFALO trying to ESCAPE from McGruber…


            www_youtube_com/watch?v=kmoHXMjRawA ( woman gets attacked by buffalo )

          • Jeez that video is awful!

            Let me make it clear I was laughing at what Santa Fe said not the video! People do NOT follow buffalo around!!

            Sent from my iPhone

          • Idiots. We’re all becoming IDIOTS! Who is McGruber?

            In the wintertime I add one more item to my emergency kit – a drinking straw. If my car door lock is frozen, I can blow into the straw pointed at the lock. My hot air thaws it almost immediately. Hey now – don’t be commenting about my hot air.

            Skippy is FF’s older or younger brother? Where is he? Sorry – no book yet.

          • Becky, Skippy was an older brother and he died in a diving accident, I believe, at about age 58. I don’t have my book handy right now but that is somewhat close to what Forrest wrote.

          • CJinCA – Hellooooo! Is that one of the stories in the book? Wonder where he’s buried? What did Skippy do for a living? Does FF say if that was his brother’s real name? I know of a girl named Kansas.

          • He died. 🙁 Yes we are idiots but having a BLAST and that is the real thrill!! Ha! A straw! That’s a fabulous idea! Adding one to my bug out bag now!

            Sent from my iPhone

          • Hey, Jen.

            When I need a funnel – I cut off the bottom 2/3rds of a plastic water bottle, throw that part away, turn the top upside down, & pour my stuff into it. Goes right down thru the hole & into the container. I’m good that way with trash.

            I stretch my money by following one rule. Here it is. *** If I can’t eat it or wipe with it, I don’t buy it.

          • Jen – Now don’t make me have to come out there & smack you. I’ll smack you good! I’ll do it. I will! You still haven’t said where you live – Jen from where?

            And…where’d everybody else go? I got important stuff from a book I read yesterday. I don’t want them to miss it. It’s about what FF was like the year he hid the treasure.

          • Jen from Oklahoma!! I’ve lived in Cali, CO, OR and Montana so I have a good knowledge of many areas, especially Rocky Mountain areas too! But I am not an expert, but I so understand how the mountains can be noes sanctuary…. I digress! I believe you when you say you will smack me LOL!! Please divulge what you read!!

          • >> I stretch my money by following one rule. Here it is. *** If I can’t eat it or wipe with it, I don’t buy it.

            You and me and my Grand Dad… who was a BIG MAXWELL HOUSE COFFEE drinker, SANBORN BROS… others…

            But when MAXWELL HOUSE came out with the LARGE PLASTIC CONTAINER that looks like it could be EMPTIED and used as a CATTLE FEED SCOOP… HE LOVED THAT “HE USED THEM FOR CATTLE FEED SCOOPS”

            He was “GREEN” before his time… RECYCLE, REUSE, REPURPOSE…

          • >> Who died? McGruber ?

            No McGruber, the “Non-STICK TEFLON” alter ego of McGyver, the “Industrious Smart Guy”, always cuts the WRONG WIRE to the BOMB so to say.

            McGruber is no DANGER to himself, just the ones in CLOSE PROXIMITY around him.

            McGruber is ALWAYS re-animated and cleaned up for the NEXT EPISODE of McGruber.

            McGruber is a SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE CHARACTER played by WILL FORTE. MacGruber’s father is the famed Angus MacGyver (Richard Dean Anderson) from the TELEVISION SERIES of the same name. The 1980’s series was PRODUCED by HENRY WINLKER… a.k.a. HAPPY DAY’s “THE FONZ”…

            The 1980’s TV Character, Angus Macgyver is a secret agent with a difference. He is quiet, mild mannered, deeply principled and refuses to carry a gun on his missions. (McGruber messes ALL of that up)

          • wow.. i have a feeling there will be many stories like this come summer time .. folks geting attacked by cougars bears rattlesnakes.. falling off cliffs, drowning in rivers,etc.. it could get real ugly.. alot of city slickers dont know what they’re getting in to.. we hiked some trails that were characterized as moderate but one wrong stumble and its down the gorge and serious injury or death.. add the element of a mountain lion lunging out at you on a dangerous trail, certain death.. black bear or grizzly if your just below “home of the Brown”.certain death.. reaching into a crevice for the treasure and a rattler strike ! its over! be careful folks, ” its no place for the meek”!

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmoHXMjRawA
            ( woman gets attacked by buffalo )

            Average TOP SPEED of a RUNNING HUMAN, ( Male or Female ) = 15 MPH


            … Making it to the TRUCK on TIME and DRIVING AWAY … PRICELESS

            An ESCAPE PLAN, like “American Express”… DON’T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT.


          • Hi, Santa Fe Smart. – Do buffalo chase you? I thought they were like cows. They aren’t in the woods, are they? My friend Bob recently lost his main breeding bull. It fell into the creek, couldn’t get up the steep bank, & drowned. Never found a trace of him. Happened one night.

            Treasures BOLD – Does he mean that he was somewhere that he needed courage to go “in there”? I don’t think I want to go into anyplace that he was hesitant about entering..

          • Here’s another definition for the word Bold – “striking or conspicuous to the eye; flashy; showy: – a bold pattern.”

          • >> Hi, Santa Fe Smart. – Do buffalo chase you?

            NOT if I can HELP it… but I do keep my ESCAPE PLAN handy… 🙂

          • Yes. Have a pic on my Yellowstone video of me with one. Trying not to post from phone since its dropping messages. Im watching though.

            Sent from my Samsung Galaxy™ S II 4GTHRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

          • Me too Steph, but doesn’t that seem to infer that retreiving the chest will bee alot more difficult than stashing it was????? Hmmm….

          • Okay, heres my logic…I am dying of cancer…I am going to stash my body and my chest someplace I think is special…I don’t fly anymore, so driving is my only option. But I need to be alone to stash the chest. Do I drive 1700 miles to YNP? I believe the location of the chest NEVER changed. He has stated he always new exactly where he was going to put the chest. So even though he felt better when he hid it, its in the same spot he was going to put it when he was sick. I don’t believe a person sick from cancer and chemo drives 1700 miles alone nad stashes a chest in YNP. it has to be a day trip, or overnight at most…Just my opinion…

          • Mike,

            Mr F did not have cancer when he hid the chest. He had beaten the cancer at that time.

          • I thought I read his original plan when he thought he was dying was to walk off into the desert and die with his chest.

          • Okay, heres my logic…I am dying of cancer…I am going to stash my body and my chest someplace I think is special…I don’t fly anymore, so driving is my only option. But I need to be alone to stash the chest. Do I drive 1700 miles to YNP? I believe the location of the chest NEVER changed. He has stated he always new exactly where he was going to put the chest. So even though he felt better when he hid it, its in the same spot he was going to put it when he was sick. I don’t believe a person sick from cancer and chemo drives 1700 miles alone nad stashes a chest in YNP. it has to be a day trip, or overnight at most…Just my opinion…


          • Mike D-
            We don’t know that the first place Forrest planned to hide his treasure is the same as the place it is hidden now. We do know that the poem is different now from his original poem. We do not know exactly which lines were changed other than the last lines.

          • What? WHAT? Why don’t we know? Did he write 2 poems or just change a few words? Can you get in touch with him anytime or is he off-limits to us all? FF & Stephanie seemed to be chummy also.

            Dal – Did you go inside his vault? Did you go into the back yard? Where did you room when you were interviewing him? His house or a hotel?

          • Ball of fire? Sounds like part of the poem. I wonder if this is what it’s like to overdose on drugs? When I went over town yesterday, all I could think about was gettin’ back to this Blog. Talk about a sick puppy… That’s me.

            When my dogs go out to pee I tell them, “Now tarry scant. Don’t be marvel gazing, just get your little butts back in here.” I eat, drink, sleep,& poop this poem & FF. I’ve done so much typing that my fingers have the prints worn off.

            But, oh yes, I am definitely a HOOT! It’s just part of my charm!

          • Oh my word I adore you! That is so funny! Tarry scant to the dogs! I can’t stop laughing!! j Sent from my iPad

          • Stephanie asked,
            One thing I think about is that if so many people think NM…then why have only one group gotten warm waters halting right and a few searchers been within 500 feet?

            Good question. How long ago did Mr F confirm this…? I will bet that has been many more since then.

          • 500(15%fiction) feet(85%fact)

            In my opinion people have been within 5 feet of the Treasure Trove!

          • Hi, Rick. – It’s me…Becky. Where ya been? I cannot tell you anything about that except that I’m not clear if he said searchers or people. I know it’s been brought up before. My question would be, “How does he know?”

            If we live in an area far away from the search sites, yet we have it figured out or at least think we do, how can we claim “title to the gold” without actually being there? I wouldn’t want to make a trip clear out west without being as sure as I can possibly be. Heck, I don’t want to go out there at all. This is my world here. I would have to go alone to somewhere I’ve never been & I am a scaredy-cat. Can’t we just tell him where it is? But if FF isn’t accepting any communication from us anymore, then how? Know what I mean, Jellybean?

            Have you ever been out there – ya know, west?

          • @Rick – In my opinion noone has figured out “WHERE WARM WATERS HALT” if they did and as I’ve stated before all the other clues would come into light/view immediately like a domino effect and drive to the location, get out of the vehicle, walk up to the Trove and claim title to it. THAT EASY! Those who claim they have figured out WHERE WARM WATERS HALT are only guessing for if they knew they would have the Trove in their possession.

          • VGB,

            I know alot of folks think they know wwwh…lol…I am one of those who believe I know where wwwh is as well as hoB. But I will not make it out there this year.

          • But Rickinflorida that makes absolutely no sense! This the Thrill of the Chase baby! In my opinion it’s going to be discovered this year -2013. If you truly know WHERE WARM WATERS HALT and all the other clues you’ve got to claim title to the Trove!

          • lol @VGB,

            I know and I wish I could…however, the doc is saying I need some surgery so I am going for a 2nd opinion. Nothing real serious but it has to do with the back and shoulder so if that happens then I will be sidelined for several months. Besides…I do not own any clothes for the weather out there…it is all shorts, t-shirts and flip flops…I could not survive in the high altitudes…lol 🙂

          • Rick I hear you and if you truly are in that current state and you truly believe you have solved Forrest Fenn’s awesome Poem and his precise location of his Chest then ask someone within your family or circle of friends, whom you trust 100%, to go retrieve it for you so that you may be able to expand your closet with additional apparel and pay for your surgery or what have you.

            Go get it, or ask someone to get for you, for if you don’t I will – 2013 baby!

          • lol…I never said I knew the exact spot…the Blaze has to be found first. Heck…I do not trust anyone in my family…lol

            What was that song…Go on take the money and Run 🙂

          • @gettingclose1 – that’s correct, the snow and ice is not completely melted in those higher elevations.

          • Rick – You ask how many Hints did I get from the book?

            Well the POEM, to me, has been more helpful than the Book. The Book actually confirmed certain clues discovered within the POEM…but the POEM is my real guide. As Forrest Fenn said; all you need is the POEM but the book will provide subtle hints.

            P O E M is my map as well as compass

            “The mountains are not your friend when they are covered with snow”

          • Just great more ramblings in freaking PARTS…Listen vgboss either provide some dangerous intel or go get the trove already or simply just cease to post altogether. Dal this blog needs some serious spring cleaning.

          • @TheOne – I never said that I know Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Trove location…so chillaX! Maybe you should go to Taco Bell and buy yourself a supreme burrito and a Dr.Pepper to wash it down and return to this blog a bit nicer.

          • vgboss I posted what you posted to me this morning… verbatim. Only the name was changed to make a point, which you got.

            Good Luck

          • LOL I. Was just planning to go get a taco from there. I’m excited to see if I find out I’m nicer. Hope it won’t really require Dr pepper though…I’m more a diet coke or coffee type.

          • @Stephanie – Yeah a diet coke would work, somewhat, however I personally would go with Dr. Pepper. Coke simply has way too much syrup for me.

          • Rickinflirida, thanks for asking…


            Well, let’s see…I pointed out that Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is significant, because of the map that leads to the Holy Grail is a map with no starting point, I think there are other correlations in in the film as well.

            I gave my reasons for why I think the first and second-to-last stanza represent typical treasure mythology nomenclature (it wouldn’t be a clue to a treasure without such language).

            Based on the concept that it’s important to “know” FF, I set out to write a poem using what I took to be the same techniques that he must’ve used…that’s the key to understanding the poem, understanding in what manner FF was forced to alter syntax (in an attempt to obfuscate the subtext) by using a rhyming dictionary, and communicating what would otherwise be simple directions, in a roundabout, cryptic manner…

            I posted the following link to a video that has many of FF’s misquoted quotes, and since many people were asking the same questions over and over I thought it might help keep everyone on topic, like me:

            “Here’s a video that has quite a few of FF’s comments regarding the Treasure”


            I suggested that the best outcome for FF is if someone finds the treasure and never proves it – that way his dream of getting generations off their butts could be fulfilled. If someone finds the chest, then hooray, someone found the chest, and the planet spins on…, but as long as no one does claim the treasure, he’s free to claim, correctly (as far as anyone knows), that it hasn’t been found, and the dream continues…

            I ruled out the two Ωmega’s as a clue, because to me, they represent the silhouettes of two people’s heads standing side-by-side, like a husband and wife.

            I proposed a design for a mountain-cart to hide the chest in if found, as a solution for dealing with the weight issue.

            I’ve posted several different configurations of the poem, because that approach appeals to me, I understand if it doesn’t appeal to you, but that doesn’t invalidate the concept.

            That was fun, now you go, Rickinflorida.

            Since you feel the need to demand to see my credentials, please do likewise – put together a post similar to this one citing your contributions. TIA

            I know that vgboss has contributed little or nothing regarding the nine clues, I don’t need a cryptic poem and map to find his off-topic ramblings, as they are strewn across this page in abundance…. which of your comments are on or off topic?

            I’d say more than 90% of my posts are on topic (including this one), can you say the same?

            I am now suggesting that everyone compile a post with all of their clues together, as I have just done, not to prove your contributions, but because it would be a good idea to put all of our ideas together in one section of this page, it would be easier than searching through all of the off-topic posts in order to find useful information.

            Also, ask me a question about the nine clues, and we can brainstorm right here right now, and we can deconstruct the poem line by line, all together.

            Good Luck

          • Are you a complete idiot, whats wrong with you? Why would you give a clue like that some people have worked very hard to figure out.

          • DT,

            Well the first one stumps most people, but obviously none us really know for sure until we’re holding the box.You can only research and assume to a certain point until you get out there and see if you’re correct. I’ll tell you this, if you read that poem several times and then the book over an over in my opinion, it confirms your starting point.

          • Ok. Don’t think you need the book. I agree with the bloggers who say so. When are you going to get it? When you do are you going on the Today show?

          • DT,
            I never said you needed the book, its just like FF stated, it confirms clues in the poem. I also never said I knew where the chest is.

          • >> Are you a complete idiot, whats wrong with you? Why would you give a clue like that some people have worked very hard to figure out.

            “Some People” is right, then there are “Thousands of LURKERS” who TAKE but don’t give…

            SPOILER ALERT, “this is a BLOG about the NINE CLUES”… “Dangerously Good Insights” – WELCOMED & PREFERRED.

          • just asking wouldnt power lines that carry elect also be blazeing trail to follow i found a place that looks like a deer a landing strip that goes to the edge of the water also the power lines go a cross the water may be waters high blazeing trail there is also a lot of bolders heavy loads any imput?

          • i dont know that mush about computers or i would send you a picture to show you the deer

          • I can’t retrieve something which I know not the location of. Instead of attacking why not assist with some of your findings from the Poem. Many within this blog have assisted with their ideas but gettingclose1 you have not assisted with anything. HELP out rather than toss stones at those who contribute to this blog.

          • First of all hothead I was joking with you, this blog has apparently made everyone edgy. I can’t give out real help for the same reason you can’t. I’m not going to point someone in the wrong direction with misinterpretations. Have a Taco…..

          • I figured if Forrest Fenn can say Dr. Pepper and everyone attempts to see that as a clue I might as well say taco bell or burrito. Why toss stones at me for doing that and not toss stones at Forrest Fenn for doing it? Come On!

          • For the love of GOLD I said I was joking with you. Do you need a hug???????

          • @gettingclose1 – if you are directing that at me…NO I do not want a hug from you but maybe a hug from Stephanie because she likes giving hugs and she’s a nice person in my book.

            DAL we’re almost at 900 comments within this thread…is PART 7 coming soon? Hopefully we will all try harder to stay on topic…I apologize.

          • Dal is not my daddy he is my Captain for I’m on his Ship. And yes I need a hug but not from you that’s for sure. Maybe a hug from either Stephanie or a hug from my family and friends if I happen to solve the Poem and discover the Chest. Those hugs I would love. Again off topic….sorry Dal

            Dal this will be the last comment I post directed at anyone…I will turn the other cheek from here on out.

          • I’ve only met him couple times but I have annoyed him more 😉 he doesn’t write me much. I’ve just researched him a lot and after two years searching I’ve gotten to know him a bit. Dal is the expert because they’ve gotten real close.

          • I doubt you annoyed him! I bet he is thrilled by you! All that spunk and pinkness! j

            Sent from my iPhone

          • Hi Becky,
            I have spent some time in Texas years ago but no further west just Houston. As for going out west to look for the treasure…I will most likely never go unless it stays where it is for another year…lol.

          • Mike,

            You’re correct, its highly unlikely that he would drive that far if he was deteriorating. Soon you will be as obsessed as the rest of us if not already. I’ll give you some advice and you can take it or leave it, your choice. FF said read the Poem over 5-6 times then read the book very slowly. There’s a reason for reading it slowly, because are a few subtle hints that will definitely confirm your location, but only if you’ve figured out WWWH. Now that doesn’t mean you’re immediately going to find the treasure, you still need to decipher the rest of the clues and make sure you’ve chosen the right ones. Good luck.

          • I’d be surprised if Forrest was the type of guy that said…ok, I’m going to die. I need to change my favorite special spot so it’s close to home. Honestly..I think the 15% embellishment is that he planned on really taking pills and dying here anyway. I think his family means way too much to him to do go off and die. I think I said this before. I don’t know…maybe I look into things too much and I should just take them at face value.

          • I agree Steph. F seems like a sentimental kind of guy where his family is concerned. j

            Sent from my iPhone

          • Jen,

            if you keep talking about it, you’re going to give it away. It sounds like you’ve stumbled on to what a few of us have found within the book. SSSSHHHHHHHHH!!!

          • Lol! Ok! Ill shhhhhh!! Obviously everyone else my thoughts on YSNP are just mine! I’m not holding the chest yet so anything goes at this point! 😉 go with your gut! If it says YS then search there!

            Sent from my iPhone

          • Thats essentially it Rick. With the vagueness of the clues one has to do two things:

            1) Focus on the most probable (P) scenario

            2) Use the exclusionary rule

            Even in a very recent local interview, which lasted 10 minutes, he emphasized two things:
            – It was hidden and not buried
            -Its in the Rocky Mountains, which seems to collectively mean its canyons, originating streams, etc

            So we don’t know what his version of blaze is, but we have a bag of potentials to use, and then one looks quickly down, which tends to mean one was not looking down to start with (hence horizontal or up), and that a singular perspective exists to see the bronze 10″ X 10″ box, and that the box is placed in an area which F does not expect to be covered with falling rock, dirt and gravel from steep canyon walls, etc.

            I reviewed and saved every New Mexico news article (at least 90) from 1972 (where he entered the Santa Fe art market), until 2010, not once did I see anything about boating or rafting. Fly fisherman pride themselves on walking or wading to very secluded spots, they can take a boat or kayak, but it does not correlate with his experiences in TOTC either.

            One would consider the Rio Grande by definition not in the Rocky Mountains, as well as other fly fishing places he visited as a youth, and other rivers and areas people have mentioned

            So use the (P) scenario to attempt to conclude most probably how he transported and located the treasure at its current site, realizing then also he would have not stood out or have been noticed on a trail or stream, but again he had to make sure he was not seen with the burdensome and carefully planned task, everything moving forward resided on a successful mission.

            The diary in a jar is very unusual, very unusual indeed. So does the combination of gold, jewels, diamonds and bronze, all very non corrosive in air or water (and certainly clear cold water), and bronze blends in with so many earthly tones, especially and even under water, and certainly with the designs on the bronze box.

            So my guess is that when you see the blaze in the right position, you can if you look carefully, see the box or at least part of it, so the method would be to execute your site guess, but while in the area, be careful, not in a hurry, sit and rest if you become mind or eye tired, but stay vigilant, focused, and observant. To many preconceived notions here will result in failure.

          • Historian,
            I disagree that the Rio Grande is not in the mountains N of Santa Fe! If My arms surround you in a “hug” are you not “in my arms”? Think about it…

          • pfw, you just questioned it! That should be good enough for the pink ladies. Or, maybe your saying the girls need the guys to solve the clues? Where’s my bacon, the postman has come and gone, and still no bacon? No bacon means no fly fishing and absolutely no free solutions for the girls.

          • Oh $bill! You didn’t just go there! *sticking my nose in the air* humph! You my dear sir failed to give me your address! *insert evil laugh*.

            I have a whole different thought process suddenly. I just left heavy loads by the wayside. Oh! Steph the girls might just win!

            Sent from my iPhone

          • Sorry about the address pfw, must have slipped my mind. The girls might win, I see dal right now looking just like his picture, only with a little less smile. So, to cheer him up, I will tell you that heavy loads are those loads that are heavy. But FF might have meant something entirely different like possibly some expectations while going up your creek.

          • $bill we’ve already established females are the superior species so you know we will win, and if its not Steph, Bonnie, Becky, Meg’s or I, you know someone’s wife or girlfriend somewhere will be taking the credit for the find!
            Ya know someone has mentioned before but why did f say YOUR creek exactly? Will we own it at some point?? I find that an interesting choice of wording…..

          • pfw, I was just joking about the girls winning. LOL. We know better. Anyway, YOUR creek has been said to imply a public creek. Or, it could just be the creek that you chose correctly. I like both theories. So how about the public creek that you chose correctly?

          • Lol I’m joking too!! 😉 thanks for the tidbit on the public creek! That just doesn’t feel good to me but I’ll run a theory with it and see what happens! pfw

          • PS all caps is very rude and is considered shouting or flaming. Which flaming is known as cyber bullying which is not acceptable. (I know I teach this stuff). So please take the caps off. We are all super nice and respond to niceness much better! We can have a good time too. j

            Sent from my iPhone

          • What are thoughts on “If you are brave?” Anyone think he is referring to Indians or Americans? This is the land of the free and the home of the brave. Or is his referring to being brave enough to face wild animals and those men armed hunting those animals?

          • I think Stance was shouting because Dal’s request at the top of the blog, written in red, has been missed by so many commenters.

          • when the smell of bacon is in the air…all concentration is lost…where`s the bacon 🙂

          • @Bill,

            * It’s fun guessing where your reply will end up.

            So what you are saying is the Thrill of The Chase is All about finding the post…? 🙂

          • Rick, it is the most thrilling part. This should end up under your 2:52 pm post. Round and round it goes, where it stops, nobody (Tim) knows.

          • $Bill,

            that is a lot to think about. I for one do not believe the chest is hidden in a way outta of the way place where a person could get lost. If that were the case…surely a man as smart as Mr F would have said all you need is the poem and a compass. I personally believe the chest is in a national park. There are three lines in the poem ( in my interpretation ) that tells us what to do and those lines are…
            But tarry scant with marvel gaze…but delay looking upon it ( opening it and checking it out )
            Just take the chest and go in peace…take it and go “quietly”
            The next four lines do not mean anything to me per the chest so go to the next line…
            So hear me all and “listen good”

            Basically it tells me to delay the excitment, take it and go quietly and if you do this…you will get away with it no matter where it is.

            Of course this is just my way of thinking…

          • Rickinflorida, keep in mind that a person has already gotten lost. I hope she didn’t get lost on purpose.

          • Now she has a compass…I am glad she is alright…! Back to my comment…I do not believe it is hidden in an out of the way place…someone has already been within 500 feet of it. I personally believe the poem is straight forward with no hidden agenda/codes and Mr F is getting a good laugh out of everyone trying to find something in code… 🙂

          • Rickinflorida, I tend to agree with you. That could be bad for you. LOL After listening to FF’s SF interview yesterday, I give a lot of possibility to the chest being in a clump of brush that people walk by all the time. LOL again.

          • Oh Oh OOOH OOOH… maybe it is CAMOFLAUGED “AS A CLUMP OF BRUSH”…

            ( Forrest was taught SURVIVAL TRAINING for being SHOT DOWN and being UNDETECTABLE by the ENEMY on the ground until RESCUE… )

            See that MOUNTAIN over there… it needs “WEED WHACK’IN”…

          • Rick,
            I could not agree with you more. 9 clues giving 9 consecutive, concise instructions to walk confidently right up to the treasure…pick it up and go in peace.

          • >> I could not agree with you more. 9 clues giving 9 consecutive, concise instructions to walk confidently right up to the treasure…pick it up and go in peace.

            … Forrest says he walked back to his car … from where … is the question …

            … it is possible that the 9-CLUES are a “Younger Man’s Path” and that Forrest took a different way “INTO THERE” … but Forrest says he made TWO TRIPS just the same.

          • McGyver ..

            The man is a genius, amazing. Although in order, some clues also jump to the other parts of the poem for confirmation. Example decode: line 7 – “here’s a clue, and it’s confirmed in line 11” (this is just an example). So, you would temporily jump to 11 for confirmation, then back to line 8.


          • @SantaFe Smart

            … Forrest says he walked back (85% fact) to his car (15% fiction) … from where … is the question

            His knees must have been hurting alot walking back to his transportation. He probably chugged down a couple of Dr. Peppers for that extra boost of energy.

            You bet that not only will I be taking a sandwich and a flashlight but a couple of Dr. Peppers.

          • I am pretty sure no one will actually follow the path the poem takes.
            You will end up driving to your area the most conveinent way possible

          • jwhal…if a person does not follow the clues in order…they may miss the Blaze…meaning…the Blaze may be something that is seen from a distance. If a person takes a short cut…they may not see the Blaze at all…maybe that is why someone has been within 500 feet of it and did not know it.

            Follow the clues in order and from the direction of which the poem leads.

          • Rick I am saying after you figure out the poem you will not follow that path to get to your area but take a more direct route to get to the area you are going to search. In my opinion the path the poem takes is around 25 miles long you will not be searching the entire path.

          • A guy from Canada wrote Forrest an email lamenting the fact that he could never get the gold through customs ( or something like that). Forrest’s response was along the lines: just sell the treasure and take the cash to Canada. Fenn expects the treasure to be parted out… After all, I don’t think a “redneck” with three kids and no job would keep the treasure intact for posterity.

          • Good points Hemmingway, ones that should be considered. However, I feel a person should also consider what FF didn’t say too.

          • Thanks PTN. I also sent a reply thanking PFW, but for some reason it didn’t get posted, yet.

          • All great questions! I’ve considered nearly all. They have led me to a spot that answers all the clues very straight-forwardly. I know others have said the same. I should know on Sunday if the chest is actually there. Wish me luck!

          • @dollarbill,
            Excellent comment, how one views Fenn can make a big difference in where to search. Like Dal said, it is important to know how Fenn thinks.

            Most importantly, I hope everyone listens to you about being prepared and cautious. The weather can change in an instant in the mountains. You can be searching a dry creek or river bottom in beautiful weather and a thunderstorm miles away can cause a flash flood where you are……..you won’t have a chance. I could write a book on the close calls I’ve had in the mountains and I was very experienced and well prepared.

            I’ve been worried people will be blinded by gold fever and make stupid choices; and the added pressure of some of them having spent so much money and traveled so far putting even more pressure on them.

            Please careful out there. The line between a wonderful day and complete disaster is very thin.

    • Can’t be in Nevada – I saw the FF interview myself declaring such. Enough games!
      The Wolf

    • Nevada loves tourists because they bring MONEY…everyone, Visitors Bureaus, want a piece of this Thrill of the Chase pie!!!

  29. Becky from WV
    don’t believe it because if it was found on a reservation the Indains are more strick than the Feds as far as ownership so they might as well kiss the treasure goodbye. If so they just made the reservation very very happen because if it was there its the reservations. They reservations are a soveign nation of themselves and they tell us what the laws are on their property.

    • Becky in WV, et al.

      First I don’t know who is emailing you what or where you are getting your information from, please do your reading before calling someone out. I have never emailed anyone privately about anything, not Bill, not even Forrest. Bill simply asked a question and I answered it, on the blog…period. I never alluded to Nevada, and island, OR and indian reservation!! Sorry to be a bit terse, but I am not playing any games with anyone. Please do your own research and interpret the clues how you see fit. Man this is like the worst game of “telephone” ever how the info. gets misconstrued…thanks and enjoy everyone. See you in the wood.

      • Becky On that note don’t believe it at all! The treasure is NOT in NV! f said so himself!! It is NOT found until f says it is found! That is just people trying to make others stop looking! Its ok! Keep looking!!

        • Thanks, Jen. My mama always told me that I’m just like a three-legged hound dog a-pullin’ on a tree root. I just don’t have enough sense to give up tryin’. So until I understand how the poem exactly – I mean EXACTLY – fits to the solution of the FOUND – y’all hear me good – I say FOUND treasure, this lil’ hillbilly gal ain’t a-quittin’ for no reason short of my own demise! And maybe, just maybe, NOT even then. Y’all with me? I believe these clues are literal – a canyon is a canyon, brave means brave, & wood is wood. Now, put that in Sittin’ Bull’s pipe & smoke it! If I happen to find the treasure first I’m gonna notify every last one of y’all to join me at the location so we can carry it back together. We all deserve to be a part of this & share alike. FF would be so in awe of us. We can shout to the world – “Yo, Adrienne! We did it!”

          • Becky……..Hillbilly gal, Me and cousin earl would much oblige to yonder on over and help ya pack that there box of semi-sweets and watch ya do the countin of them goldies…uh huh, we don’t need no payin out, just some of granpappy’s moonshine would tickle my bones just fine.

  30. Pyramid lake appears to be in Nevada…..Forrest specifically said it wasn’t in Nevada so don’t worry about it.

  31. Just great… more people who say they found the Treasure Trove’s location…will these hoax’ters ever zip their trap?

    Seriously people let’s get down to finding this Trove?

    But knowing many of you…you…believe everything you read on the internet so many of you will be wanting confirmation from Forrest Fenn about this by saying it actually has not been found, and that they are lying, simply to satisfy you all and accommodate your planning to continue on the search.

    Look we cannot bother Forrest Fenn for he is busy finishing up his books. When it’s actually found, for reals, it will be known immediately…atleast that what I believe and I can believe anything I want!

    Anyone who claims they found the true location of the Treasure Trove are only being ridiculous and using it as a tactic to eliminate that location. It takes no rocket scientist to know that people will keep claiming they have found it and want to be debunked so they can simply eliminate that spot so they can stop wasting their time on the specific spot and move on to their next spot and then begin that process again and again.

    • VJBOSS: I think I have a solution to “People who say”. Take one dose of people who ‘blather hoax’ and mix with one dose of people who ‘anti-blather hoax’ and you have nothing! Get back to enjoying the Chase.

      But then again I may have overlooked something and offended someone and I apologize in advance. Just trying to make the Chase a bit more enjoyable for all.

  32. Thanks Hank for coming out and posting in regards to this nonsense about Bill and his supposed discovery of the Treasure Trove…Oh and yes…see you in the wood….careful with those darn rabid squirrels and snakes!

  33. Just another thought that came to me about the poem and the clues. You decide.

    It could be that you need to look for the treasure at a specific time, I’m thinking late afternoon. Hence the clue “The end is ever drawing nigh” meaning the end of the day.

    The” blaze” could be something like a rock formation that looks like a fire. The sun would cast a shadow that might terminate at a small cave or opening on a ledge or wall. (look quickly down, your quest to cease)

    However, the shadow might only last a short time because of the sun’s angle (I was camping once in Oak Creek Canyon in AZ. In the late afternoon, you could literally walk along and follow the sun’s shadow as it set) Thus the clue “tarry scant with marvel gaze”. In other words, don’t just stand there and admire the view. Get moving and don’t delay.

    The treasure is above 5000 ft. It is going to get cold at that elevation once the sun sets. (your effort will be worth the cold)

    Finally, I read somewhere that FF said a flashlight would be useful. Hmmm. Would a flashlight be useful if you were packing out a 40 pound box along a trail at dusk?

    • I had the same thought about the time of day for spotting the blaze. Notably, the “if you’ve been wise” part. What does a wise person do? “Early to bed and early to rise” as they say, so I’m leaning toward sunrise as the time that the blaze will be obvious.

        • “The WISE” are “early to RISE”…

          A “Dangerously Good Insight” if there ever was one. 🙂

          Sounds like the SON(Forrest Fenn) from “THE MOTHER OF INDIANA JONES – ( A COLLECTOR STRIKES BACK )” would have something to do with that to me.

          Reference: http://www.friendsofpast.org/forum/mother.html


      • Could be. And it is cold in the morning also. Ahhhhh!!!

        I really have to stop thinking about this poem. Would someone please solve it???

    • I ran a simulation (google earth) where I am to search with sun rise and sun set. Very interesting results – sun rises exactly over the blaze (looking from the 9th clue or target area) and casts the first and unique shadow over my search spot (like a beacon) during sunset. Time will tell whether is is relevant.
      The Wolf

    • >> Like the light(sun) dagger at Fajada Butte in Chaco Canyon

      … is an example of “BROWN archaeoastronomy”

      Diagram showing the location of the sun daggers on the Fajada Butte petroglyph on various days


      A widely known example of “BROWN archaeoastronomy” is the Sun Dagger of Fajada Butte at which a glint of sunlight passes over a spiral petroglyph. The location of a dagger of light on the petroglyph varies throughout the year. At the summer solstice a dagger can be seen through the heart of the spiral; at the winter solstice two daggers appear to either side of it. It is proposed that this petroglyph was created to mark these events. Recent studies have identified many similar sites in the US Southwest and Northwestern Mexico. It has been argued that the number of solstitial markers at these sites provides statistical evidence that they were intended to mark the solstices. The Sun Dagger site on Fajada Butte in Chaco Canyon, New Mexico, stands out for its explicit light markings that record all the key events of both the solar and lunar cycles: summer solstice, winter solstice, equinox, and the major and minor lunar standstills of the moon’s 18.6 year cycle. In addition at two other sites on Fajada Butte, there are five light markings on petroglyphs recording the summer and winter solstices, equinox and solar noon.[96] Numerous buildings and interbuilding alignments of the great houses of Chaco Canyon and outlying areas are oriented to the same solar and lunar directions that are marked at the Sun Dagger site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeoastronomy#Brown_archaeoastronomy

      Fajada Butte is on ASTREE’s TREASURE MAP … Canyons Down from the Headwaters of the Colorado River in the ROCKIES North of SantaFe

      “Colorado River Map Zoomifier”


    • As for the time of day way of thinking…the blaze could be a “rainbow” and what do you find at the end of a rainbow…?

      Actually I believe it is a more permanent object that can be seen at anytime.

      • >> RAINBOWS…

        Waterfalls create a MIST that when hit by SUNLIGHT…

        A rainbow is an optical phenomenon that is caused by reflection of light in water droplets in the Earth’s atmosphere, resulting in a spectrum of light appearing in the sky. It takes the form of a multicolored arc.

        Rainbows caused by sunlight always appear directly opposite the sun.

        The rainbow is not located at a specific distance, but comes from any water droplets viewed from a certain angle relative to the Sun’s rays. Thus, a rainbow is not an object, and cannot be physically approached. Indeed, it is impossible for an observer to maneuver to see any rainbow from water droplets at any angle other than the customary one of 42 degrees from the direction opposite the Sun. Even if an observer sees another observer who seems “under” or “at the end of” a rainbow, the second observer will see a different rainbow further off – yet, at the same angle as seen by the first observer. A rainbow spans a continuous spectrum of colors. Any distinct bands perceived are an artifact of human color vision, and no banding of any type is seen in a black-and-white photo of a rainbow, only a smooth gradation of intensity to a maximum, then fading towards the other side. For colors seen by a normal human eye, the most commonly cited and remembered sequence is Newton’s sevenfold red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo and violet. ROY G. BIV for memory…

  34. Hello Everyone!

    Thank you, Dal, for setting up this blog; and thank you Stephanie too, for your blog; and thank you everyone else for your thoughtful ideas; and thank you Mr. Fenn for providing the pretext.

    I saw a news story a couple of weeks ago and stumbled upon these pages, and very helpful, and entertaining, they’ve been.

    What makes this treasure hunt fascinating is the fact that FF (Forrest Fenn) is out there providing additional clues, which you don’t usually get in a treasure hunt.

    So, on to the nine clues…

    First, I think that a person, such as myself, could have a hunch as to the location of the treasure, and be correct, and not have the treasure to prove it (think Nero Wolfe). Like most people interested in this story, I have several places in mind.

    In the film “Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade”, Indiana goes to the library/church in Venice (ahhh, Venice) looking for clues, and he finds the ‘X’ only after looking around. I think this is the case with FF’s clues; once you’ve found WWWH, and after you’ve gone Down the Canyon, the Home of Brown will be as obvious as the ‘X’ on the library floor that marks the spot. No doubt the “Blaze” is in the form of an ‘X’ (did I give away too much?)

    No doubt FF was inspired by Indiana Jones, and created his own “Bedtime Story”, just like in the film.

    I too feel as though the first stanza and the second to last stanza are part of the nomenclature of treasure maps, in that if someone 500 years from now was to read the poem, they will get the sense that the writer had created a message that not only reveals the location of the treasure (as well as words of encouragement), but also explains his motivation for stashing the cache in the first place, otherwise what’s left of the poem without those stanzas would just be one big non-sequitur (as if it isn’t anyway, but at least the future reader will know what the poem represents and why…using a cryptic poetic clue-ridden format, with an explanatory header&footer, is a time honored tradition when it comes to hiding treasures of old).

    I think secret “where” = Hiding Place (I can keep my hiding place secret). I agree with many other posters that Mr. Fenn was forced to break commonly accepted rules of syntax in order to communicate his message in the form of a poem.

    You may not realize it right now, but there are hidden clues within this post. I have a lot of ideas on the subject, and as I sit here writing them down, I’ve had to go back and edit them out for fear of sparking too many epiphanies.

    This first post is just my way of saying Hello to my Fellow Treasure Hunters and Wishing you Well, and if I can figure out a way to share more ideas without feeling as though I’m giving away too much, I will.

    The best way to have fun is to be safe out there…

  35. “Begin it where warm waters halt”: This must be a legitimate starting point within the Rocky Mountains. Thus, anyone in the world would find this location a good place to begin the chase.

    If where warm waters halt describes numerous similar places, then the clue is too general for a practical solution. It seems to me that it must be a unique location, such as Santa Fe, NM or some other city/town or some other specific place in the Rocky Mountains. This starting point must also be a specific location in FF’s past travels. Since FF has said all that is needed is the poem to find the chest, where warm waters halt must be a well-known location that can be identified by all. As many places in history, a definite place could last 1,000 years or more.

    By reading ahead in the poem, I think that we can assume that this beginning place is in a canyon that has an active stream. It would be too expensive and impractical to take temperatures of all streams in canyons and then find a location where a significant cooling of the stream occurred. But we can use the fish habitat and fishing information to do this for us. It is common knowledge among fishermen that trout waters are considered to be cold waters and other fishing waters are considered to be warm waters. This is because trout (as all fish) only thrive in waters with a certain temperature range. dal has informed us that he is aware of a stream (Rio Grande) that, as you move downstream, is considered cold trout waters – then warm waters – then cold trout waters again – then warm waters again. FF would be very aware of cold trout waters and non-trout warm waters.

    So we need to locate a well-known place in a canyon with a stream, where upstream there are non-trout warm waters and downstream there are cold trout waters, or vice versa. We also assume that we will be driving, so there will be a road following the stream down the canyon.

    If the beginning place is a dam where warm waters halt as in a deep water lake, then all streams feeding the lake need to be warmer than the lake waters. This might not hold true if the streams feeding the lake were snow melt streams. It is not practical to check all the stream temperatures feeding the lake and then check the temperature at the bottom of the dam (discharge waters) in order to determine if warm waters had halted. But a person could determine if the lake had or didn’t have trout. The dam would need to have been designed to last hundreds of years. Avoid earthen dams. This is dal’s dam theory which he has openly posted on this site.

    Warm waters from hot/warm springs would seem to halt once the warm waters were diluted by colder stream waters or at the point where the spring water entered a cold stream. Temperature measurements would need to be taken upstream and then downstream until there was no more temperature change in the stream. With the hundreds of springs in the Rocky Mountains, this does not seem practical. Again, we can look at the fish habitat in the stream to determine where the non-trout warm waters have halted. So upstream from the spring could be cold trout waters while downstream from the spring could be non-trout warm waters for some distance. If the beginning point were downstream of the spring, it would most likely not be a well-known place. However, if there were a town or something downstream from the spring(s) that happened to be a division between cold trout waters and non-trout warm waters, it might be a good starting place too, i.e., as long as FF had frequented the place. We can’t overlook other naturally occurring divisions between non-trout warm waters and cold trout waters, as dal has pointed out.

    It will take significant and tedious research to determine a WWWH beginning point that is worth investigating. Start by identifying, as best you can, where the good trout fishing spots are in the Rockies. Each State’s Fishing Regulations might be a good start.

    • ” “Begin it where warm waters halt”: This must be a legitimate starting point within the Rocky Mountains.”

      Why the Rockies? Forrest never said WWWH was in the Rockies, only the treasure!

      • Exactly Dakota Kid! Warm Waters can start anywhere and halt somewhere within the Rockies. 1 clue may be in a State, another clue in another State, and other clues in other State…the Rockies stretch for over 3,000 miles! This Chase is not for $50,000 but for valuables that range from 1,000,000 to 3,000,000 dollars if not more, who knows! With that said solving the Poem and finding the Treasure Trove and claiming it will not be easy as it must be earned and when I say earned I mean earned!!! Many trips, loads of money, sacrifices, etc…must be EARNED!

      • Kid, I believe that if you start outside of the Rockies and then take it in the canyon down, you would be traveling away from the Rockies. However, I have not looked at all of the topography surrounding the Rockies, so I can’t say that this is an absolute. Just most probable to me.

      • VGBoss, not to be too critical but, do you realize that you said WWWH is in the Rockies? This is contrary to what Kid was saying? Also, those who go looking for a treasure, without having a somewhat likely location to look, are just on a camping trip. If they do have a likely location to look, then they have spent considerable time on their behinds coming up with the location. I don’t believe that you EARN anything by saying I went looking in several gut feeling locations, came back empty handed, now I am a true treasure hunter, listen to me. It seems that all you have gained is a few locations where the treasure might not be. New information from those on their behinds and willing to share might lead you right back to your search areas with a new perspective for finding the treasure. Please be more considerate of us on our behinds that are trying help you.

    • I like and share many of your assumptions. However, one cannot define, in my opinion, a fine line of demarcation of warm and cold, except perhaps, where hot springs feed a stream. Nor can one establish precise boundaries of trout habitat. To say that Brown Trout prefer colder temperatures, and therefore may be more plentiful in the upper tributaries, does not narrow the location of the treasure that much, or even where “below” ends and “above” begins. I think FF would provide more precise clues. But maybe not.

      I also will join the emerging chorus of voices that proclaim that one cannot with absolute assurance identify WWWH without the corroborating evidence of fulfilling the other clues.

      • Spire, I realize that stream or lake temperature range is only one habitat factor affecting trout survival; but, I believe that it is one major factor that fishermen consider when taking off on a fishing trip. If a person asks a local fisherman where the trout are, the fisherman might tell the person to go left to catch trout and that there is nothing worth catching to the right. The person is at the WWWH. The left becomes cold trout waters and the right becomes non-trout warm waters. This is not to say that there are never any trout to the right, it is just one aid for helping fishermen in catching trout. If a local says that there is no good fishing in the area, move on.

        From: http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/wdb/pub/hsi/hsi-060.pdf

        Adult rainbow trout begin dying off at water temps below 32 °F and above 77 °F.
        Adult lake rainbow trout select waters with temps between 45 °F to 64 °F.
        Stream rainbow trout select temps between 54 °F and 66 °F.
        So, the optimal temp range for any rainbow trout is assumed to be 54 °F to 64 °F.

        If a person feels that trout cold waters have nothing to do with FF’s warm waters, then by all means they should ignore my posts regarding trout cold waters. To date, I have yet to come up with a better warm water meaning that makes any sense to me.

        • Thanks for your considered and considerate response. Cold, warm and hot are relative terms. Given your example of lake fishing, can one draw a line that clearly and precisely defines that border? I don’t think so, at least not as distinctly as a hot springs entering a stream. And I’m not sure how your example speaks to the clue of “take it in the canyon down.” Please enlighten me. My general comment was simply to suggest that FF would likely provide clues that would further narrow the search, but I could be wrong.

      • Spire, I hope that your inquiries are sincere. I will give you a lake example in Arizona. Under SRP, several dams were constructed creating as many lakes (one after the other) along the Salt River. The lakes are considered warm water lakes and any rare trout are in the deep cold waters of the lakes. The lower Salt River is stocked with trout. The upper Salt River is mostly on an Indian Reservation. Stewart Mountain Dam (the lower dam – Saguaro Lake) can be considered a WWWH location, a division between the lakes’ warm waters and the cold trout waters of the lower Salt River. Colder waters sink to the bottom of the lakes and are released at each dam. Warm waters halt at the surface of the lakes.

        Until early today when Stu enlightened me “that take it in the canyon down” could actually mean go up in a canyon, I believed that a person would be traveling down a canyon to the home of Brown. Now I believe that a person could be traveling up or down a canyon in search for the home of Brown.

        Just as I do not intend on searching for all warm/hot springs in the Rockies, I also do not intend on searching for all dammed warm water lakes in the Rockies that feed cold trout water streams. Nor for any other combination of cold trout waters and warm waters. If you are interested, you might perform these searches.

        • DollarBill.

          Thanks for your reply. Yes, I know about cold water sinking in a dammed lake; that warm water halts at the surface. I have actually water skied in Lake Saguaro and tubed the salt river starting just below the dam. Tubing was colder! Again, I’m not sure how this translates to my point that warm water halting can be more or less defined and distinct by whatever examples are used. In terms of finding the chest I think that FF would think of clues to more narrowly focus the search. Hot springs pouring into a stream seems an example which is more narrowly focused and more applicable to the rest of the clues, in my opinion. Yes, it is quite common that a dam releases water into a river canyon which further down stream one could find the home of Brown, whether traveling upstream or downstream. But to my mind this would be a broader search to discover the correct dam. And if “Brown” refers to brown trout (and I don’t believe it does), I still think it would be very difficult to demarcate the boundary of “below.” Thanks for the dialog.

  36. Here’s a question for Dal and Stephanie and anyone else who has gone out to several locations:
    Have you used the same solution to WWWH for more than one location or do you use a different solution each time?

    • I’ve had at least 4 WWWH in Cimarron…one was the dam, one was the drinking pipe no longer there due to the bacteria(warm water), one was the special trout waters themselves, one was a lake in Philmont that trailed into Cimarron, I think I had some others even, 3 up in Yellowstone. I only had one in Ketchum Idaho. I’ve had many other search areas and WWWH. I had many solutions that came from all those starting points as well.

    • I’ve used the start of the gorge at the Rio Grande on the NM border twice. I’ve used Agua Fria Mountain in NM twice. I’ve used Red Rock Pass on the Idaho/Montana border twice. I’ve used the Hebgen Lake Dam twice. I’ve used Yellowstone Nat’l Park twice. I’ve used the eastern front of the Rockies twice.

    • I haven’t actually been out yet, but I have tried 3 different WWWHs in tentative solutions – a confluence, a dam, and a lake. I thought all 3 had very good possibilities and would have gone to all 3 places looking for a blaze if the time and weather had been right. Like many here, I won’t be able to go out until the end of May or 1st of June, and even that may be too early since it seems we are going to have a very long winter with a lot of snow in the Rockies, maybe till July. 🙁

  37. I thought I was being smart hunting for every hot springs for Wwwh,
    But I’ve found them in every single trail, creek and river In the whole Yellowstone area. You name the spot, there’s a hot spring or geyser there.
    I guess being back east I figured it was unique to find one. They don’t line the streets of downtown Chicago .

    I’m now thinking Wwwh is more broad and big- Something historical or well known. Something that truly will stand the test of 1000 years of time and not change like some hot springs can do. Something that pumps out some real warm water in quantity and mixes with a river like at Boiling River. ( just an example – I’ve never made that work). Or is a river mixing with another river. or even a natural lake. There are as many natural lakes here as there are hot springs. It’s crazy.

    I think I have one more trip left in me before the money runs dry and my vacation time is totally gone for the next 24 months , so i need more immediate insight on the things I know. I solved the two omegas , very sure on that. Actually my daughter solved it. Young minds do see new things and Forrest knew that. But how it truly relates to the poem I don’t know. I will trade my answer for anyone who thinks they know Wwwh or the stanza – hear me all and listen good , your effort will be worth the cold.

    The first part of hear me now is not clear to me if it’s really a clue. Best answer gets mine. And mine really is the answer you want and you will agree and not feel cheated. I do know the two omegas would alter the searching of everyone out there and wreck quit a few travel plans. It’s a game changer on a certain level and news worthy. But it’s not delivering the chest to me, so I need more info. Anyone have anything worth the exchange.


    If you aren’t happy with the trade – call me out. But you will be very happy. Maybe- hear me now- is not a clue and there is no answer. Then it’s just something he wanted to include.

    If you absolutely know Wwwh, that would obviously be the best trade. Maybe Mine is wrong since its not getting results. . Running man told me that spot and he should know. But if you beat my answer- i will throw in Running man too- (he’s good for chores around the house- joke, not a clue. I do know it) One condition- you can’t Disclouse it or trade this stuff after our exchange.
    Hopefully this is better than just blurting things out and making everyone upset.

    I guarantee to send the two omegas to someone , even if I don’t think their answer was the right answer for the items I seek.
    I will be looking for a local partner soon, so feel free to email me. I will post in looking for partner section as well. I mainly look around Mon/Wy area.

    • Well, I fell for ironmeteor’s offer. Haven’t gotten anything back, though. Doubt I ever will. Not all that surprised.

  38. Here’s a really strange train of thought I was pursuing a few days ago. It’s probably so far out there that it’ll just make everyone more confused, but then again, maybe it sparks that one thought that gets someone to the treasure.

    Perhaps the poem has reference to time rather than location. Could ‘where warm waters halt’ be morning, when dew appears? Could ‘Not far, but too far to walk’ be a reference to time rather than distance? Could ‘below the home of Brown’ have some link to a time of day, perhaps the bottom of the hour? Which hour would be the brown hour? Maybe night is ‘No Place for the meek’, especially since the end of the day could be ‘ever drawing nigh’.

    Yes these thoughts are completely wacked, but it could make sense with the previous discussions about the Blaze possibly being a shadow or trick of light that can only be viewed at a specific time of day. At the very least, it may trigger another line of thought that finally offers a solution to the puzzle of the decade.

    Feel free to laugh because I can’t really make much more sense out of the poem using these keys, but I think it is important to share our thoughts, if only to get people thinking in new directions. Perhaps each line refers to a word that, when added together point to that final destination. Or perhaps I’m nuts. 🙂

  39. I am going to attempt to stimulate this blog by spilling some of my proverbial beans…WWWH could be ANY or NONE of the following:
    A Dam, Clouds, Continental Divide, Yellowstone Park, A Particular river(my personal favorite), a time of day, a time of year, an irrigation ditch or canal, a glacier, a Snowcapped peak, A spring, (hot or cold), a geyser, Where one stream enters another, A particular place where a particular plant grows,
    A Dry streambed, Spring run-off, ETC>>>>Did I miss any GOOD ones?

    • You didn’t mention Bill’s WWWH, and I believe that if the information is out there, it should be a part of the blog…personally I don’t think he is correct, but it should be in everyone’s arsenal, and not just a hint for a few. Anyone that has researched the blog should know what it is, and if you don’t you haven’t been paying attention. That being said, it is only one man’s interpretation of one of nine clues, so revealing it is no more monumental than revealing any blogger’s thought on “home of Brown”.

      • Hi Scott,

        Your comment must have gotten cut off, what was Bill’s information that should be a part of this blog?

      • Endorheic basin. Having to do with areas that have no outlet for the water that gathers there, the only way it can leave is evaporation. Although Bill thought this was a game changer, it is simply one more idea for where warm water halts, and there are many of these basins in the Rockies and they are large in size so it is still more information to wade through, no pun intended, but kind of funny now that I think of it. 😀

      • Yeah, Molly is right, and I think some clown decided that Bill was referring to Pyramid Lake in Nevada which is endorheic, and posted that bogus solve alert yesterday. I am pretty sure Bill wasn’t talking about that one, as Nevada is out of play. Also, I think one would have to find an endorheic basin that was fed by warm water, perhaps a hot spring, to jive with the clue, and I haven’t come across that yet. Dal mentioned the Great Salt Lake, which is also endorheic, but that kind of halts water then warms it up after, so I don’t know if that works either. Just another possible WWWH to throw into the mix.

        BTW, Brown’s Park/Brown’s Hole is associated with the Great Divide Basin which is endorheic…around Rawlings, WY if you like that line of thinking.

      • Oh, and I bet “endorheic” was one of the most Googled words over the past couple of days.

      • 98.6 URINE… warm water halts…

        “That was the RATIONALE for DIGGING UP OLD OUTHOUSES…”

        DIGGING may not be REQUIRED. FORREST never said the Treasure was Buried, one slip of the tounge doesn’t count, there would have been more than one slip over the years for it to be a “FREUDIAN SLIP”…

    • ‘Warm waters’ could be tears flowing from your eyes?

      What was the path or destination of ‘The Trail of Tears’ forced migration?

      • >> The TRAIL of TEARS forced march…

        … Was closer to TOLEDO ( and AMERICA’s DEEP SOUTH ) than the ROCKIES …

        In 1831, the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Muscogee Creek, and Seminole (sometimes collectively referred to as the Five Civilized Tribes) were living as autonomous nations in what would be called the American Deep South.

  40. Anyways, any other wwh ideas besides my list that folks are willing to share?

    • Sure, there’s a creek in NE New Mexico that disappears into the ground. Was my favorite for a while. I think it’s been exhausted by now.

    • Mike D
      What about the Great Sand Dunes? The streams go around the perimeter and disappear into the sand underground. The desert would certainly have warm water, and it would halt when it disappears. They are N of Santa Fe, too. Since that is a very specific place it might make a good starting point. Just a thought.


        Sounds like the makings of “QUICKSAND”… be CAREFUL out THERE.

        If it is DANGEROUS (except for DANGEROUS WILDLIFE or TURNED ANKLES), it is probably not there.

  41. “‘warm waters” vs “water high” …his use of waters vs water?”

    Tweetest and VGBOSS,

    Yep, that’s one of the constructs I’m looking at when using the poem construct perspective. He didn’t say “where warm water halts”.

    Phrase where “warm waterS” halt is on “S”, and the next line mentions “Down”.


    • so are you saying, waters may refer to multiple sources feeding one larger source?? i’m going to lose my mind! i’m starting to think the key clue isnt warm waters.. may be the first clue but not where you start…

    • Simple reason: Waters halt, but water halts. And halts won’t rhyme with walk.
      (not to say halt and walk were ever good rhymes…)

  42. I’ve been trying to unlock the grammar of FF’s poem, which might be a key, so I’ve attempted to go through the motions of writing my own poem to get a feel for the kind of ways One is forced to alter language (in an attempt to obfuscate the subtext) by using a rhyming dictionary and searching for ways to communicate meaning in a roundabout manner…

    Fenn left his clues, just for you
    so get off your butt and go outside;
    he’s forcing you to look askew,
    so eyes of yours keep opened wide.

    Stay true, to his, beguiling words,
    take it slowly, step by step,
    but don’t follow the mindless herds,
    and take a moment to catch your breath.

    Treasure in hand what do you do?
    make two trips to the car unseen?
    or perform a feat of derring-do?
    most likely something in-between.

    The feds are waiting to take your cache,
    but no human force can alter your fate;
    ‘cuz your treasure’s hidden within the trash,
    you’ll make it easy to the interstate.

  43. Hello all. I’ve been lurking here in Dal’s house for a couple months, and have really enjoyed hearing all the ideas and stories. I basically wanted to just say hi, but I might as well let you all know where I am with the FF treasure.

    While we’ve been researching, brainstorming, and GoogleEarthing for a few months,it was 2 weeks ago that we had our first outing. My wife and I are of the NM faction… mostly because we live in southern Colorado. It’s a lot easier than Yellowstone. 🙂 I have to say, though, that there is a LOT of compelling evidence pointing there. Possibly this summer, if its not found by then, we may take a trip up there to check out some interesting areas.

    Back to NM. Our first outing was by/in the Chama river, in the same area as the controversial poster above. We came to many of the same conclusions as him, with a couple more “eurekas” that I was surprised he missed. At any rate we spent a few days on islands in the river, hiking, climbing and exploring the canyon between and below the reservoirs. All to no avail (obviously)… not to say it was fruitless: any time out in nature is time well-spent. We were planning on returning to that spot again, on the off chance we missed it, but in light of a few others putting in a lot of time in the same area, I think we’ll be moving on to our #2 spot. I feel like if it was there it would have been found by now. Plus there are a few problems in that area– first, saying its “in the mountains north of Santa Fe” is a stretch. It is above 5000′ (barely) but it is more desert than mountain. Second, I’m just not feeling it for the HoB meaning brown trout. Maybe it does, but for me I’m not sure.

    Anyway, since we’re close enough to be making weekend trips there when work & family isn’t too crazy, we’ll be going back to northern NM to check out our next spot soon. Someone said here that they don’t need an excuse to get out in nature, but the Chase has taken them to spots they would never have found otherwise. I couldn’t have said it better.

    I look forward to sharing and hopefully adding positively to the discussion here in the coming weeks.Have fun and be safe!

    • Not feeling the brown trout thrill either, and if I was I would be more inclined towards Wade Lake, Cameron, MT, also the home of a state record trout (that’s the capital B in Brown, remember?) and near West Yellowstone.

        • None of the authorities on the web that I’m found actually capitalize the b in brown trout. Where did we get the opinion that brown trout was discovered by someone named Brown? Wiki and numerous other sources do not capitalize it.

          • Stance-
            When I was looking for ideas for Brown I probably was the first to post on this blog that some scientists capitalize Brown when writing “Brown trout” simply as a crossover or habit from Binomial nomenclature, in which it is customary to describe a living thing by it’s genus and species. The genus is always capitalized, as in “Homo sapiens”. Brown trout is not a scientific name and has nothing to do with binomial nomenclature. However, for some, capitalizing the first word, even in a common binomial apparently is a habit and one sometimes employed by individuals who commonly use scientific names. Further, I suspect it’s something older individuals do more commonly than younger folks. I am not saying it’s the “right way” or the “most common way”, only that it’s “a way”. Something that should not be ignored.

          • Dal, very astute and well versed observation, I’m of the opinion that “Brown” refers to something less obvious than trout . My belief is it relates to a special area, but trout are commonplace in most Rocky Mtn. streams, I assume, therefore it wouldn’t help define an explicit location, am I trying to read too much into it ?

    • Yes, the chase gets me out to new places and it is always a thrill. When interpreting the clues around “in the Rocky Mountains” keep in mind that all of northern NM, Colorado and Utah are high deserts. Wyoming and other states are partially heading that way but still have more grass. Montana and up is another ball game. There are places in the Rocky Mountains that are not mountains but plains and valleys above 5,000 feet. The San Luis Valley is an example and one of the most prominent visible aspects of the Rocky Mountains from space.

    • >>> Someone said here that they don’t need an excuse to get out in nature, but the Chase has taken them to spots they would never have found otherwise. I couldn’t have said it better.

      AMEN to that, I have driven more than 14 hours from my house to spots… others are driving cross country 2, 3, 4 days drive… Even driving from an East Coast Mountain Range to a Western Mountain Range, to arrive completely EXHAUSTED, but even after DRIVING ALL NIGHT and part of the next day, I have searched till DARK… boy am I getting too OLD for that…

      Places like CHICAGO are pretty close to AIRPORTS for FLYING, but I live a COUPLE of HOURS from AIRPORTS, so DRIVING the HIGH PLAINS is the best way to go for me at least… besides I can pack more GEAR if I drive the GEAR… although I will have to say that the ECONOMY of the ROCKIES is benefitting from the TOURIST DOLLARS for such as SUPPLIES, LODGING ( every three days for me, under the stars otherwise ), and such.


  44. Everybody
    Sorry to be late on this discussion topic but I was busy lately. Hope this doesn’t reopen an angry discussion or cause angry tirades but I have to put in my .02$. I really enjoy reading these posts about (especially) failed searches and clues and there meanings. It is a large part of the thrill of the chase when you are many miles from the search areas and can’t physically search in all of your spare time. I plan to post my own spot or spots when the snow is gone and I can check them out. Like Dal I have several spots which seem to satisfy 9 or more clues and like you all I am impatient to check them out. I realize I had a much later start on this than many of the veteran searchers (no one’s fault) so I wouldn’t feel too bad if one of them (or a newer but quicker than myself searcher) found the chest. However if someone posted too much detail and it actually enabled a searcher with almost no time invested in the search to collect the chest it would be at the least anticlimatic. I think the biggest disappointment would be never being able to experience the suspense of “is it in my spot?”
    I’m not trying to attack anyone and don’t mean to make anyone mad, I’m just trying to explain how some of the people might feel. I can’t quote him on this but I think I read somewhere that Forrest said the thrill was in the chase not in the find (something to that effect). I guess I’ll go back to being a lurker until I have something positive to contribute.

    • Now that you brought it up, there has been a similar discussion on that topic, not long ago. A lot of people feel the same way. None of us want spoilers on here.

    • SPOILER ALERT, “this is a BLOG about the NINE CLUES”… “Dangerously Good Insights” – WELCOMED & PREFERRED.

      >>> ” However if someone posted too much detail and it actually enabled a searcher with almost no time invested in the search to collect the chest it would be at the least anticlimatic. ”

      You might have to make 10, 20, 30 trips to a SPOT, the SAME SPOT and not find the BOX. This is going to be a TOUGH SEARCH for the LONG RUN. Speaking of # of TRIPS an individual might make, just think of how many DIFFERENT PEOPLE and TEAMS have been to the SAME SPOT and not found it.

      Any time invested is TIME INVESTED… even if you have the EXACT AREA of the ROCKIES… this is not an EASTER EGG HUNT… people can STUMBLE on EASTER EGGS… a TRIP is a TRIP and TIME and MONEY have been expended.

      It’s been said that “The LAST will be FIRST, and the FIRST will be LAST…” it’s in the BOOK of MATTHEW referring to many things amoung them, wages paid for WORKING IN THE VINEYARD during the HEAT OF THE DAY being the SAME as wages paid for WORKING IN THE VINEYARD in the COOL of the EVENING… as well as the TRUE purpose of the parable…

      ( Even Jesus had to EXPLAIN his parables to his deciples… you can only speak in code so much… and we have THE POEM for that. )

      Whether it is your FIRST TRIP OFF THE COUCH or your 40th TRIP OFF THE COUCH… knowing the SPOT doesn’t REALLY increase your chances of actually WALKING away with the BOX… you’re just as likely to go home empty handed as the person who went to the WRONG SPOT…

      “Dangerously Good Insights” are exactly what gets people “OFF THE COUCH” with the HOPE of coming home,
      preferably while holding a certain 10″ x 10″ 42lb Broze Box. 🙂

      SPOILER ALERT, “this is a BLOG about the NINE CLUES”… “Dangerously Good Insights” – WELCOMED & PREFERRED.

  45. I feel fairly certain that in my own humble opinion in that I do not wish to offend anyone in any way that
    after long and careful consideration in more ways than space allows that “Where warm waters halt” refers to a Dam. There. I’m not going to go into why, you’ve all read all the various extrapolations to whence. If you have another opinion like “Warm Springs”, stream confluences or a sewage treatment facility, etc. — fine. It was asked and I posted instead of lurking and replying with Snide.
    …Yes Ironmeteor, I would like to hear your kids take on the double omegas “brand”, but I will stay out here in the open for a while longer before taking it in to @, so ante up or play your cards close.
    God’s speed, happy hunting, got to get back to making the world safe for democracy…

    • Hi, Slim. Where exactly are these double omegas? Still waiting for my book to arrive. Is that where they’re located – in the book? What do they have to do with anything – like maybe with the poem or the treasure?

  46. Hopefully no minds private trading info about clues like I posted. I’m stuck and
    need to jump start my looking. I think all my searches are
    always great on the surface, but lack a key detail here or there.

    I can’t remember who said it earlier , but they had a geeat post about
    following the grammar and poem as is. He wrote it that way for a reason according to them.
    I used to just ignore the stuff, but I’m now in the camp that the poem is accurate and i need to use it that way.
    Forest says it will precisely lead you to the chest. The word precise made me change my mind. It’s not a trick, just ultra precise. A trick in its precision.

    So my freelancing on Meek versus meek and same for Brown is allowing me to create fake solutions that are a waste of time and money.
    Each failed solution in which I used my own grammar is literally wasted money out in the field.

    So now I need a new Brown as well as a Wwwh. I see now why Dal always starts there and doesn’t cheat it. Just useless to cheat and skip a line.

  47. I would like to confirm or dispel the theory that Fenn carried the chest to its finally resting place in 2 trips. I’ve notice this in a number of the previous comments and would once and for all like to confirm that this is an accurate statement from Fenn himself. I believe it is important to understand. If it’s true, then that would mean he could have simply stopped along a road, got out, hiding it and then driven off. Dal, can you confirm this?

  48. Where did the info originate that FF made two trips to hide the treasure chest? Does that mean round trip with the chest & another round trip with the contents? I mean from point A to point B then back to A, then repeat that sequence. About the flashlight – I’m pretty sure on one of the interviews he definitely said “only if you are searching in the dark” would you need a flashlight. Anybody else?

    • >> Where did the info originate that FF made two trips to hide the treasure chest? Does that mean round trip with the chest & another round trip with the contents?

      It originated from FF in his own words… SIGNED “f”


      I received a nice letter today from a delightful woman in Colorado Springs. Her name is Jeannie. She said she was in the grocery store and looked at a bag of dogfood that weighed 20 pounds so she put two of them together to see if she could lift them (the treasure weighs 42 pounds) she said she couldn’t budge the two bags. Maybe that’s why a 79 year old man had to make two trips to hide the treasure. f

  49. I have a question about the location of the treasure. Perhaps it has already been discussed. If so, disregard this question. Is it the consensus of opinion that ff hid the treasure in the same place after his rercovery, that he was going to hide it before his recovery from cancer? Opinions?

  50. Just some info for those using the poem-interpretational approach:

    Canyon – possibly the best known canyon in the U.S., is THE CANYON. North of Santa Fe.

    Meek – the meek shall inherit the earth / dirt. No place for the meek is below dirt, rock layered strata. Check various, including the HERMIT layer (gone in there alone).

    Brown – rapid color (sorry if this comes up as a trojan, it’s just a Wikipedia link)


    Then there was Frank Brown, trying to build a railroad, drowned near the Marble Canyon there toward the end of the last century.

    Also, since it houses the Colorado River, getting that state name in there
    as well.

    • “Just some info for those using the poem-interpretational approach:

      Canyon – possibly the best known canyon in the U.S.,

      … WOW… now that is “DANGEROUSLY INSIGHTFUL” astree

      Start in the ROCKIES north of SantaFe at the HEADWATERS of the COLORADO RIVER and takes it into the CANYON DOWN along the COLORADO RIVER to the GRAND CANYON…

      OSHEWAAWAAA… that is TOO FAR TO WALK… but NOT TOO FAR relative to the EARTHS HEMISPHERE or the RANGE OF THE ROCKIES for that matter…

      HMMM… this will take 10,000 years… when “OVER POPULATION” puts PEOPLE on those LANDS… WHAT’s better LIVING on MARS or LIVING on EARTH where there’s OXYGEN even in the ROCKY PLACES…

      … WOW… now that is “DANGEROUSLY INSIGHTFUL” astree and you could be right, that is “THINKING BIG”.

    • .
      Thanks for that, Santa Fe Smart. Very nice map from National Geographic, too. I seem to recall quote from Forrest that it’s not as far as Las Vegas (Nevada ?).

      • … or was it, “it’s not in NEVADA” …

        “the treasure is more than 300 miles west of Toledo, not in Nevada, and more than 5,000 feet above sea level”

  51. home of Brown well since its not associated with a structure as per clue #11 and Comment on Dals’ Blog. Its a habitat, usually meant for animal type things. i;m going to ignore it,,,, because if I can’t see what it (Brown) is just skip it, IT MAY BE at my spot I just don’t realize it.

  52. Personally when I read Forrest Fenn’s poem I always have these quotes of his in mind to help guide me. (Forrest Fenn said this stated this in a video)

    “…you say it’s raining for effect. It’s a boldface lie.”

    “Every book that I have written I’ve made up words and I looked at the dictionary to make sure that it wasn’t there. The point is it’s a Freedom that I give myself.”

    With those quotes of his in mind does he really see the word WARM as it is defined in a dictionary or as we ourselves see it or understand it? Does Forrest Fenn really see the word CANYON as defined in a dictionary or as we ourselves see it or understand it? What about the word COLD? WOOD? BRAVE? BROWN? ETC…

    In my opinion if one understands Forrest Fenn’s philosophy 100% he or she will solve his Poem and walk easily up to his Treasure Trove, with extreme confidence, and claim title to it. Understand his history/past/life and you get to know him as an individual. What’s your goal? Solving the Poem or Knowing him as a individual? Personally for me…BOTH!

    (A father drinks and smokes but yet tells his children not to drink and smoke saying it’s bad for them but yet they see their father doing the opposite….A mother never graduated from high school but yet became a huge success but stresses to her children that education is important…PHILOSOPHY or INDIVIDUAL)

    Just my opinion

    • “In my opinion if one understands Forrest Fenn’s philosophy 100% he or she will solve…”. This is something I have stressed from the bebigging. You have to think like Fenn to understand him.

  53. VGBOSS wrote:

    “Most definitey astree….just as your username astree….that is also a clue! Forrest Fenn said to THINK so THINK! With Forrest Fenn there is no such thing as over-thinking….over-thinking will take you to true imagination. OPEN THE MIND!”

    Easier said, then done. 🙂

    Some are looking for a cave, check it out. Letters before the first 3 commas … DEN

    Letters before the first 4 commas DENK …


    How do you like them apples ?

    (Ach du lieber, germanguy)


    • Oh so you found that…now you’re THINKING…welcome to the club!

      Keep digging and there are many more fun stuff; such as that along with many other angles of looking at the Poem. REALLY READ THE POEM!

  54. I think Dal’s comment about knowing Fenn is a good one so I’m going to look at this on a more personal level to see where that leads. Forrest said, “Imagination is more important than knowledge”, I think he borrowed that from Einstein……..So what did Fenn imagine?

    I also agree with Dal about WWWH being the key, as it’s essential to start there. Having said that, I can make an argument why that’s not true, but for now I’m going with it.

    As of now I see WWWH two ways:

    “waters” plural as in a confluence of a tributary system. Many lakes and rivers fit this description, Yellowstone Lake and Rio Grande River for example.

    “waters” all inclusive as in where warm waters halt is cold water. Cold water in the name like Cold Water Creek or Agua Fria, lots of Agua Fria’s out there.

    And the “out of the box” version comes from a couple skate boarders I stopped and ask about the poem…….that was a fun discussion. One skate boarder immediately said where warm waters halt is hot water……He said his mother is always talking about him being in hot water.

  55. I appreciated the comments about my earlier post regarding looking for the” blaze” in the morning or evening. When ghostwriter pointed out the link with the word “wise” and the relationship with early rising and becoming wealthy, it was one of those “aha!” moments. Even if it turns out to be bogus, it is still fun!

    Here is a fairly weak thought, but I will put it out there anyways. ” put in below the home of Brown” (with a capital B) appears to be a major clue, but what is it? People have mentioned brown bears, brown trout, brown adobe houses, sewage plants, an early pioneer named Brown, etc.

    FF lives in New Mexico. There are bats in NM. Acording to urban folklore, Carlsbad caverns were discovered by someone seeing a cloud of bats flying out at dusk. There is a species of bat in NM called the Big Brown bat. (I’m not kidding, that is what it is called.) There is also a species called the small brown bat. (wonderfully vividl imaginations those classifiers have!) Anyways, the only reason I think this may be relevant is I’ve noticed the Big Brown bat’s name is always capitalized in any writings about it. Look it up. The name small brown bat is not capitalized.

    Is there a place in NM (or elsewhere) where a colony of Big Brown bats are known to nest or congregate? It would be in a cave or canyon. If so, you could be “in a canyon below the home of Brown”.

    • … I was about to say, if it is in bat cave under “Bat Guano”, I would rather dig OLD OUT HOUSES 🙂

      • There is a place in mule canyon that you can only see the blaze before mid-day…. it’s “House on Fire “Google it it’s amazing

        • >> There is a place in mule canyon that you can only see the blaze before mid-day…. it’s “House on Fire “Google it it’s amazing

          … and it is on ASTREE’s TREASURE MAP …

          House on Fire (Anasazi pueblo dwelling, Mule Canyon, Cedar Mesa UT

          Located in San Juan County Utah includes the Utah section of the Four Corners Monument. In the center of the county are Cedar Mesa, Comb Wash, Natural Bridges, Hovenweep National Monuments and Canyonlands National Park…

          … and it is ALL on ASTREE’s TREASURE MAP …

  56. I think a much better 9-letter word (then endorheic) for WWWH is underseas. Warm water definitely doesn’t go there! Happy Hunting!

  57. Anybody – Where are the double omegas located? Are they someplace in the book?

    • Becky,

      There’s a photo of them in Stephanie’s March blog, dated March 26 titled The double omegas… what do they mean?


      • JD – My book delivery is pending so I don’t know if they’re important or not. I know omega means the end, but the back of the book is the end so maybe it’s just that simple. Is there an alpha or a double alpha at the beginning?

      • Becky,

        I haven’t received my book yet either so I can’t help that. We don’t really know for sure if they are a subtle hint, clue or have anything to do with the hunt. People are speculating on their importance.

        I think someone said some authors use a single omega at the back of their book, but because this is a double, and I suppose unusual, people feel it may have some significance, but no one knows for sure.


  58. Concerning the blaze. Let’s suppose that the blaze might be something painted on a rock. I know that Forrest is a scupltor. Does anyone know if Forrest also paints. Thanks.

    • I don’t think he has to be much of an artist to simply paint a “blaze”. MHO


      I don’t think that Forrest is a “TAGGER” or “DEFACER”… imagine an 80-Year Old with a Spray Can…

      …those trees he sent out pictures of are on his own property…

        • >> Maybe he’s going the way of ancient glyphs. 🙂

          If the BLAZE is a SOLAR mechanism like the TIME OF DAY/YEAR SUNSHINE ( in this case BLAZE on ROCKS) like in INDIANA JONES – RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK.

          The astonishing discovery of an ancient celestial calendar in Chaco Canyon, NM. Evidence of archaeoastronomy at Chaco has been proposed, with the “Sun Dagger” petroglyph at Fajada Butte.

          Between AD 900 and 1150, Chaco Canyon was a major center of culture for the Ancient Pueblo Peoples.

          Susan_Davis brought up the “HOUSE ON FIRE” that ALSO appears on ASTREE’s TREASURE MAP …

          “Colorado River Map Zoomifier”


  59. Just a quick note to say that I just returned from my 3 day hunt for the treasure.No treasure for me or my search partner.This was my fourth and last time out.All trips were made to the same site.I love my site and still believe it to be right on.For all of you armchair searchers,you will never get close unless you make the trip and actually see things for what they really are.Staring at the computer for hours will get you nothing but blurry eyes.Also,you had better be fully prepared to face whatever mother nature puts in your path!Wind, snow,cold heat,poor cell service,wild animals of all kinds.You name it! On this final outing my partner and I arrived at my spot a little earlier than anticipated.Still dawn.We missed the spot where we were to start and drove on by.Getting headed back in the other direction took maybe 20 minutes.Just as we got to the area of entering a Mountain Lion,yes,MOUNTAIN LION,walked,that’s right,walked right in front of the vehicle and crossed the road.This creature did not run.He walked slowly away and disappeared into the rocks.The treasure for us, was that we missed the spot the first time and did not run into the lion.GOOD LUCK AND BE SAFE!!!!!

    • @ken – sorry to hear about your 3 strikes and now you’re out. What gets me is why aren’t people documenting their trips by way of a video device? I sure would have loved to see that Mountain Lion crossing your vehicle…VIDEO would give all of us Chasers a better feel for what you went through.


      I will be heading out on 6/1 and when I’m done searching through all my hot spots I will be uploading a video of the areas that I searched through. My video is going to be insanely awesome whether I located the Trove or not…a video of my searches will definitely be uploaded!

    • VGBOSS I think she’s onto something , I have a high frequency of interpretive errors . btw I read your bio in a previous post and was wondering if the VG stands for “very good” . LOL

    • LMAO! That could be me. I’ve got a kind of supernatural thing going on with this hunt. Don’t want to go too off topic… I’ll just say I have my spirit hawks out there looking for me.

    • It’s possible for WWWH to be www. but the halt is the DOT. You then need to decipher the rest of the poem for the remaining web address, including the suffix(.com, .org, .info etc). I’m no cryptologist and I doubt that Mr. Fenn is either. So I dropped that idea. Besides, if it were www. then his comment that a few people got the first two clues correct and missed the other seven would be off by a thousand people.

      • >>> Does WWWH imply the WorldWideWeb…

        The INTERNET ( DARPANET, NSF NET , INTERNET(WWW) began as a UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE decentralized Command & Control System from the 1950’s. (Remember the 10 Mark 2 Colossus computers, codenamed ULTRA from WWII) The thinking was that if one Command & Control SYSTEM or MILITARY BASE was hit by a NUCLEAR BOMB, the rest of the COMMAND & CONTROL system would remain standing… hence today, you can REMOVE one SERVER from the INTERNET, and the INTERNET continues on.

        >>> Does WWWH imply the WorldWideWeb…

        Depends on when Mr. Fenn first included the phrase in his poem, and when Mr. Fenn first became INTERNET SAVY.

        The Term WorldWideWeb has only existed sinch 1990, before that it was NSF NET 1985, and before that it was a U.S. DEFENSE DEPARTMENT NETWORK called DARPANET.

        The FIRST WEB BROWSER was invented in 1990 called NEXUS
        The SECOND WEB BROWSER called Mosaic (later Netscape), “the world’s first popular browser” came along in 1993.

      • If it were a web address – Google’s webcrawler software would have located it by now and could be discovered by a web search. This goes against Forrest’s intention of getting people off the computers and into the mountains. I myself think it is more straight forward but clever (imagination is fine – but important not to overthink it) and I am sticking to the “KISS” method.
        The Wolf
        The Wolf

  60. @VGBOSS @ALL

    The freely given FF tree pics and now Vet Memorial Bronze statue pics with related info pertaining to pics leads me to believe said pics have meaning to our treasure hunt …which in turn; for my own reasons, continue to point me to where “warm waters halt”.

    Point is.. my “fav” spot is supported by these presumed extra clues he gave.

  61. Richard Sauinier has a nice treatise on the clues of the poem in his latest post on his own blog. He is such a fine writer:

    And Stephanie has a lot of really good ideas about the clues in the poem on her blog. Look here:

    Please don’t forget to click the “like” button when you visit someone’s blog…assuming you DO like it…

    • @Dal,
      Thanks for the vid

      @Mr. Davetian,
      Your angle is being pursued, I assure you.

    • Like I said, he was home for a late dinner. That was the first video we watched and my wife pointed out that he says “I walked back to my MY car” not the car. From there, I think I know why he laughed, but only time will tell.

    • tyvm.. good perspective, most of which i agree. i think its been discussed some here but i will reiterate what the professor said.. its likely hidden in plain site.. that treasure chest would blend in perfectly with alot of the rock i saw in new mexico.

    • Ok, I’m obviously the blogger you laughed at for saying he could have flew. Who’s to say he wasn’t walking back to his car at the airport? Who’s to say it’s not at an airport? Do I think that now? No…but I think throwing out interesting ideas is a good way to have fun and possibly figure this out.

      I also think most people are thinking he just thought of this place recently as you talk about 40 years in NM to hide it. I believe he thought of the place back in the 80s when the thought of this idea when he wouldn’t have spent that much of his life in NM..maybe a dozen years. Not saying it’s not in NM…just that many people seem to think he only recently thought of this place.

      • Stephanie, don’t give up your airport theory, the chest could be in a FF bag going round and round on an airport luggage carousel. No traveler is going to take someone else’s luggage, especially out in the Wild West. I would LOL too if I were FF. Just find an airport that fits the clues. You wouldn’t have to thumb with serial killers either. But do all airport searches before you go broke.

        • dollar!! That’s it….I saw some Red, Black, and Green luggage that emitted the smell of tea in Denver going around and around with the FF on it in duct tape. It had two clunky horseshoes attached to the handle and kept making the strangest noise as it went around. First one to Denver gets the treasure!! Your always looking out for my treasure hunting emotional needs dollar. I just want you to know that I appreciate that.


      Yesterday afternoon I asked for people to UPLOAD VIDEOS and BAM a video gets uploaded today!!! ENJOYED IT! Thanks Dal and Benet Davetian.


      Like I stated before I’ll be uploading my video, of my search, in mid-June probably 6/19 as I will be heading out on 6/1. Whether I find the Chest or not I will upload my video. BUT if I find the Chest and if Forrest Fenn left strict instructions, inside the Chest, as not to make my discovery public/known then I will not be uploading a video but maybe just a photo showing my arms and hands holding the Chest for all to marvel gaze at it so every Chaser may end their quest for it. But nah…seriously upload videos people!!!

    • I think he just knows it hasn’t been found because it is buried under snow, thus inaccessible…If he repeats this again in the summer, then I might start to believe in some sort of locator unit thingy…but probably not.

  62. I watched a video about Yelowstone and it had 30 places that seemed to fit the clues and Fenn is vastly familiar with the park. One spot in particular was a dead on match up until spotting the blaze. See you there this summer!

    I next watched a video about the Grand Canyon. It was a 110% match with the poem. Ugh. Would the north rim of Grand Canyon be ruled out? It is technically more north than Sante Fe but only by a little.

    Oh and sorry DAL for my previous rant against the guy that would not stop posting how he found the treasure but needs a ride from NJ. Please don’t ban me as I have a lot of insight to give.

    • astree…what’s up?! Hope all is well in your neck of the woods. Yeah can’t forget that sandwich and especially that flashlight…not unless the Sun is right above, at the perfect moment, then the flashlight will be useless.

      • VGBOSS wrote:

        “astree…what’s up?! Hope all is well in your neck of the woods. Yeah can’t forget that sandwich and especially that flashlight…not unless the Sun is right above, at the perfect moment, then the flashlight will be useless.”

        “what’s up” … good one, VGBOSS.

        I’m having some porblem follwoing the discussion due to the post hopping.

        Current discussion seems to be on

        “I’ve done it tired and now I’m week”

        Jen has commented on tired = wheeled. Yes, looks likely, as “too far to walk” (as commented a week ago).

        This clue looks like marker for about 7th clue, although I haven’t verified yet.

        God rested on the 7th day – Sunday. Forrest looks to be incorporating several layers in the poem, one layer leads to the chest.



  63. John Paul said,

    Hi, these are two separate things. 1. People getting the first two clues right in an email to FF. 2. “I know that at least a few people have been within 500 feet of the treasure” I am paraphrasing the latter but it is close to what he said. He used the words few and people.

    John I agree 100%. I believe that the folks that found the first 2 clues started at wwwh and went down the wrong canyon therefore missed the other 7 clues.
    As for someone being within 500 feet of the treasure tells me it is close to a walking, hiking, biking trail or a fishing spot ect.

  64. quote

    AZ .. I have gone alone in there.

    Where Arizona can mean both “spring water” and “wood (oak)”


    re: Grand Canyon discussion

    Begin it where “warm waterS” halt .. halts on the S

    Begin it where W Arm Water S … halt

  65. It seems to me that the only clue in the poem that even resembles a season to search is
    “worth the cold”.
    Even that is too general to rule out a cave (no more a “structure” than a mountain is) as the source of the cold. What people define as cold varies widely. Any blaze associated with trees would be in the fall for only a short period. I think the Blaze must be present year round. It would be cruel to let searchers go out at a time when there is no chance of finding it. For this reason, I have to rule out transient items like time of day lighting and seasonal colors. I’m thinking a permanent, non seasonal, forever-and-ever present Blaze.

    Then there is the ice ax and sandwich comments that are aside from the poem. I may be a diversion like the flashlight comment and then saying later “it isn’t really necessary if you return before dark.” It’s not informative when it is something everyone will know. He could also say “take along some matches”. It is just advice, not a clue.

    “The greatest good you can do for others is not just to share your riches, but to reveal to them their own”

  66. My thoughts are…

    1. The treasure is not in Yellowstone, Taos or Colorado because this places are perfect to confuse hunters and lead them to some really cute spots in the mountain (he wants us to go out).

    2. WWWH isnt related to water, this is just another confusing part of his Poems.

    3. Note that many cancer patients who get a diagnosis like him are trying alternative healing methods such as to drink or bath in holy water or doing other mysterious ritual things. When a doctor tells you that you have to die.. you can become very creative…

    4. Fenn has a good knowledge about Indian native americans. He probably knows everything about their medicine mans, rituals and culture.

    After studying the Poems deeply and searching the Rockys on Google Maps for a whole week (10h/day) I found a place where the treasure could be. This is far in the woods, far from any crowded place and you can reach it with a car. Theres no warm water you could take a shower with for many miles around, theres a home of brown, its a cold place and it was commonly used by indians for healing rituals. As well “riches new and old” would be a clue here.

    Fenn said someone has been in range of 500ft of the treasure. Does anyone know the exact words if it was “people” or “searchers”?

    I would love to travel to this place right away,
    But since this is a 14h flight from here, theres noone who would like to travel with me.
    Going to the wild forests alone is probably not a good idea… Is someone maybe interested to do that together?



    • I have to disagree. He’s said don’t over think it. That’s why I think many have been close. I don’t think it’s that far into the woods. I think it’s more like Dal has said…we’re missing it, because it’s well hidden rather. He’s also not into alternative medical stuff. He gives full credit to his doctor and his family for their support and care.

      • Yes you are right, but I dont believe i overthink it because the way i found the location was such simple that i did not look there earlier 🙂

        As well when you watch this video with Fenn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipvIGaVt7C8

        He says:
        “Just someone who was in the skin like him would do this”

        Well.. may im wrong but this would be the first spot for me to search at.

  67. Hi all: I’ve been looking for about 2 months now (I think Becky mentioned not showering! Ha!!! I almost spit my coffee out – I laughed so hard! b/c I was in bad shape too for the first two weeks – barely putting on clean clothes for work! ). I am going out for trip number three to WY (near Yellowstone). Just wanted to join in on the fun on the blog. My first search spot was in Colorado, using Leadville as my home of Brown – (Stephanie – I too had thought of a train – with the heavy loads and water high), second search was on the Rio Chama using Brown trout as my home of Brown based upon the record fish caught and a really cool little dude ranch in the area that features “home of the Brown” on its website : ). I have read and re-read the poem and Forrest’s book and feel like I have some good ideas but as you all know – you can make just about any spot fit if you have a big enough imagination!! Mine – by the way is huge…..
    Mike: I agree with all of your WWWH – those are the exact same ideas that I had identified but I also had included the endomorphic lakes/streams based on an old post by Dal. I started really looking at Brown Trout as the home of Brown based on the fact that I noticed that the date of the blaze found by Stephan was 9-11-11 – the date a new record trout was caught back east… coincidence? maybe 🙂 I seem to run into a lot of those re: this here chase! Well, good luck to you all!
    BTW- I just hope that Forrest his happy with the way this hunt ends… it is pretty awesome of him to give us all this fun!

    • BTW – I also forgot to thank you Dal – you have always answered my emails – And the way you put up with some of the bickering on here….pretty darn awesome amazing guy as well : )

    • Have fun Sherri, I look forward to hearing your updates. I’d be curious to hear your Rio Chama story sometime. I searched there before, because of Georgia O’Keeffe. I would love to take the tour of her home sometime. I have gone to her museum and met her mountain. She fascinates me as a person. I actually like the photos of her that her husband took and reading their love letters…a little voyeuristic *closing eyes* pretty cool though. Be safe.

  68. @Dal
    I find the note you received from Fenn interesting.

    He said, “I can assure everyone that the treasure is still where I hid it.”

    He hid the treasure some time ago, how could he possibly “assure” us it’s still there unless he has someone watching it or he has checked on it.

    How do you think he can assure us?

    • Goofy_Old_Guy, jen, and others… maybe Mr. Fenn doesn’t know if it’s been found, but as long as no one steps forward with proof his dream of getting people off the couch and into the woods can continue…

      …also, regarding the two Omega’s…maybe the search begins with you on your couch and ends with you back on your couch.

      • The Omega symbols…


        Let’s forget for a moment that they are Omega symbols with their various meanings, and look at the image that they create: It looks like two heads side-by-side, like two people standing together, like a husband and wife.


        • That was my first thought, especially since the last chapter before the Epilogue was a lovely ode to Forrest’s wife, Peggy Jean. I’m not sure it has anything to do with the clues, but I could be wrong. 🙂

    • Goofy- I think I know how Forrest knows but it’s only my opinion and I feel foolish throwing it out. So I’ll keep it to myself. There has been quite a bit of discussion about this phenom in the past.

      • Awww I wanna know what you think…..*whisper it in my ear* Dollar…what’s PTN? *booking flight* 10 for me too….I’ll meet you at the luggage twister machine.

      • dal, foolish is okay, just ask PTN, who should soon figure out that P rhymes with sink, T rhymes with lo, and N rhymes with males. Stephanie, you probably fly first class and will arrive before me (luggage). I should be right behind you, or maybe right in front of you.

      • @Dal
        The one thing you are not is foolish……it would be interesting to know your thoughts but I understand you wanting to keep that to yourself.

        There are many out there that would keep it quiet if they found the chest, surely there are no park service/government workers using our hard earned tax dollars to hunt for the treasure……and they certainly couldn’t make the find public, unless of course they are willing to trade a few million in treasure for an employee of the month award.

        Which leads to what the professor you linked to said…….Would he put it on government land with his attitude toward government bureaucracy?

        I’ll take Fenn’s word that it has not been found……..It’s just an interesting side note to the chase that he is monitoring it somehow.

        • Goofy- I’m really not trying to hide anything. Not the places I’ve looked and not the interpretation of the poem that I believe in. But I don’t want to be preachy either. My answers are long enough. Imagine what a tome I could write if given free reign lol.

          By foolish I just meant that posting my thoughts about the subject would stir up controversy and annoy and probably even disappoint some searchers. I don’t want to go there. Second, it’s not the purpose of this area to discuss how Forrest knows where the chest is. We are supposed to be discussing the nine clues.

          So that’s all I meant by “foolish”.

        • Remember my telling people on here that it’s Not on government land? I know fenn wouldn’t give 2 cents to the people who tried to ruin his reputation. Private land surrounds a lot of this government land. I believe that is where everyone should be focusing their attention. Sure does reduce a lot of problems. I’m with the professor on this.

          • I think FF would have hidden the chest on public land so that the Feds and private property owners would have no claim (which knocks off YNP). Further, I think that FF would keep the treasure close — maybe Colorado, but more likely New Mexico. I think FF would use WWWH to narrow possibilities instead of enlarging them To use an example of continental divide or watersheds does not really narrow down too many options, at least not in the same way a hot springs enterins a stream, or a dam that releases cold or warm water into a canyon river or creek. I think FF would lead us to more defined delineations. This also applies to home of brown. If one thinks that refers to brown trout, the area involved would not be clearly defined. Brown trout may like colder water, say at the bottom of a dammed lake, or the upper reaches of a river’s tributaries, but we still have not narrowed the possibilites that much. I think FF wants us to find more narrowly applied answers to his clues.

          • Not sure why my comments are dropping. I’ll stay quiet till I’m back on my computer. Just want to say about my mailbox idea….its a federal offense to mess with someones mail….I wasn’t serious about that.

            Sent from my Samsung Galaxy™ S II 4GTHRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

      • Let’s see. pink butterfly wind, windy pink wings, pink windy wings, pink wings in the wind, a little help Stephanie!

          • Maybe we should have a men and women’s side to this discussion. The women’s room can have a big pink bar with hearts and fresh flowers and pictures of unicorns all around. The mens room will be dark marble and teak with a lot of chrome go-fasters and pictures of classic hot rods. We won’t exclude women though. We’ll have plenty of pics of pin-ups next to the hot rods.

      • Stephanie, I like it! P.S., don’t you dare quit the chase. Maybe, be just a little more confident before your next venture out. Wait for lightening to strike you, or some light bulb to come on, or a pink flutterby wind to breeze by.

      • Some people have survived several strikes and lived to sort of tell about it. A little hard to understand what they are saying now. Should you die, you will leave a legacy of the person most likely to find the chest before being struck. You got me, what does Wh stand for? Is it the white hair you get after being struck?

        • Went to high school and had a janitor who was struck twice. Had short spiky hair….wonder if it was always like that.THRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

      • dal, I think that we all realize that we veered from the nine clues a little, sorry, but it’s the nine clues fault. So, what do we name the men’s club house? Home of the Brown?

        • Oh! The men’s side home of Brown! That is too funny on many levels! I’m cracking up over here! Y’all had too much fun while I was driving home from work! j

          Sent from my iPhone

      • Girls, when you are in the girls’ room scratching your heads and maybe doing other things, smile towards the cameras.

      • Here’s my take on how fenn knows if the treasure is still in the location he left it. Fenn simply checks it via cell phone. Parents can keep tabs on there kids, by simply using there cell phone to check the location of the cell phone there kids are carrying. Don’t be a bit surprised when you find the chest, you also find a cell attached to it.

        • @germanguy
          germanguy / Apr 11 2013 5:53 pm

          Here’s my take on how fenn knows if the treasure is still in the location he left it. Fenn simply checks it via cell phone. Parents can keep tabs on there kids, by simply using there cell phone to check the location of the cell phone there kids are carrying. Don’t be a bit surprised when you find the chest, you also find a cell attached to it.***

          A cell phone or any other kind of electronic tracker device needs power to work, the batteries need frequent charging or changing.

          Secondly anything that emits a Rf signal would easy to find with pretty basic equipment. Ham radio hobbiests have “fox hunts” where its a race to locate a well hidden, RF transmitter in the shortest time.
          Your cell phone is emitting a RF signal all the time (even when you’re not using it.) In a wilderness area thats radio quiet the signal would be detectable from quite a distance. then by simply triangulating you could find the device.

          • Are people really entertaining ideas about cell phones in the chest to track it???really…

          • I don’t know about cell phones, buy yes, some sort of device could indicate whether the chest has been moved of opened. Not so far-fetched.

          • A battery wouldn’t necessarily need to work continuously. A high voltage, long lasting battery could be activated only by opening the chest. No need for periodic replacements.

          • Dal, as I am new to this blog site I am not aware of all the topics that have been discussed. I have combed through most of the 6 volumes of The Nine Clues, and through most of the postings on the New Mexico site. I have scanned most of the others. But I have not come across any discussions of FF’s favorite hiking and fishing places in the northern New Mexico Rockies. Has there been such discussions? If so, where might I look to read those? If not, do you know?

          • Forrest has not spoken in public about his favorite fishing spots in NM. Most of the very personnal information comes from his books and to my knowledge there is no discussion of favorite fishing places.

          • I think one of the major reasons searchers consider Montana/Wyoming as a more likely place for hiding the chest is simply because there is much more information available about Forrest’s history in New Mexico and those two states. He practically never mentions Idaho, Utah or Colorado. The question one must consider is…does lack of Forrest driven information suggest that the treasure is not located in ID/UT/CO ?

          • I think we often forget how Idaho is very close to YSNP. I think we get biased on our states we think its in. I’ve looked at Alaska too, he got gold from there I think…? But I can’t figure out exactly where the RM range ends up north. j

            Sent from my iPhone

          • Secret Codes To Extend Your Cellphone Battery Life. Youtube video. Says you can get 75% saving on battery power. Interesting how that works.

      • I really do wonder how he knows…because he does seem so sure of it and I seriously don’t think he goes to see. It’s this sort of thing that makes me revert back to it being more of a puzzle. Dal said he said don’t change my poem though…so does that mean it can’t be a puzzle? I don’t know, I don’t know…and I wanna know. Maybe there’s a dye pack in there and he just hasn’t seen any purple people walking around and that’s how he knows. He has the anti purple dye and no one has asked for it per the little bio bottle.

        • Probably because it is just still under snow……or it is in an area that is closed off….like a brown bat cave…… (I know! No structures!) although that wouldn’t stop me……

      • It just might be in plain sight but you don’t see it unless you know what to look for. He could drive or walk by it – perhaps a bit in the distance and see it plainly.

    • I’ll tell you how! He KNOWS nobody that claims to have found it has found it because he has supreme confidence in the location! This is not a “gimme” chase were on folks! I PROMISE you that where the chest is, it will take Thought and planning to retreive it even AFTER you figure out exactly where it is!

  69. Its hopeless. I give up. No one will solve this. You think you know what diection your going but check into reality…you have no clue. He made this so broad that you’d have to check millions of locations and maybe you’ll get it. Good luck all I’m done.

      • I quit every time I go…it’s kind of like grieving your spot I think. I agree that it’s so vast…but I keep remembering what he says…the person will be confident….why? Brings me back to puzzle….but I’m puzzled by that, because I don’t really think it’s a puzzle. ack…I’m quitting too.

    • Sorry you have lost the Thrill and hope you return again but for now the odds of me finding it is a tiny bit better ;^)

    • Ah come on Pete don’t give up! The fun is just getting started! It’s not hopeless at all. Yes it is broad in scope for there are many locations that fit the poem nicely but Pete there is only 1 location that fits the Poem down to perfection! Pete it will be solved. I personally predict it will be solved and most importantly found this year-2013! THE FUN IS JUST STARTING!

    • Pete, it wasn’t intended to be found overnite, he said he hopes it will still be there after hundreeds of years.

  70. Any warm water around the decommissioned Omega West nuclear reactor at Los Alamos. Anyone find a connection to this double omega? Lots of geothermal springs in the Caldera area. The top secret Manhattan project was centred here when they made the first Atom bomb.
    The Wolf

  71. Where Warm Water Halt
    Stripe Bass have the highest tolerance to warm water. Trout like cold water. Any one completed research to find lakes/reservoirs with bass – in particular striped bass? Find these and this could be where Warm Water Halt. I think am not convinced trout lakes are warm enough.
    The Wolf


    Taking the “No No Hair Removal System” to the NEXT Level…

  73. Anybody – Someone mentioned that FF stated he walked back to his car & laughed. Is there an interview to prove he said that? If so, where is the interview? Also, that video by Benet Davidian was wonderful.

    Stephanie – Why do your thoughts drop off unfinished on some of your entries? Who is Pete? Why is he leaving? To be perfectly honest, I didn’t even know he was here, but no one should give up. Ya gotta be in it to win it!

    This whole episode is worth more to me than the treasure because I’m learning so much from y’all about life OUTSIDE of my own little world in WV. When someone locates the treasure I will be very sad, not for the loss of IT, but for losing contact with everybody here. I have no family, & strangely I have become anxious to hear what’s going on with you guys – like I know y’all. Odd, isn’t it?

    • Becky,
      no need to lose contact if the treasure is found…maybe Dal will have a…After the treasure is found blog” 😉

      • Rick – Hey there, Handsome! How y’all doin’ today? I would really like that.

        Listen, did you ever hear of a book called The Whistle Pig? Yeah, me neither. It follows along the same way this does. That will be my next adventure since I’ve become so good at this one. Stories & clues lead to the key to solving it. Been around for 10 years.

        Where did FF make that statement about walking to the car & laughing? Do you know?

      • Becky I am not sure. I have only heard it said by others.
        Never heard of a Whistle Pig

    • I don’t know why they drop off….hmm. I think if its found we should all still hang out. Hugs and love becky!!! 

      My husbands going to beckley

    • Becky, to be honest, i really didn’t know what blogging was or even is. But since I started, I kind of enjoy it and would probably continue after the gold is found. I just recently added “Amatuer Treasure Hunter” as an occupation on my facebook, I may need to add “Amatuer Blogger” as well.

      • germanguy,

        You posted something in the past week or so that I haven’t been able to locate and I’d like to discuss it with you 1 on 1. Would you consider emailing me at jdhummer0255 yahoo dot com and I’ll be more specific?

        No problem if you wish not to.

  74. The warm water could refer to the springs that feed into the Red River in New Mexico. The water is warm from the Red River State Fish Hatchery to the Rio Grande confluence. The Fish Hatchery is “home to the Brown” trout. You can “put in” at the fish hatchery from trails like La Junta which is between the Rio Grande and Red River, a 1-mile, 800′ cold, snowy hike down into the canyon starting with near vertical cliffs and boulder-filled slopes aided by steps and a ladder (too far straight down to walk). The Red River has graded, white-water rapids (water high) that are not for the meek and ends (drawing nigh) when it runs into the Rio Grande (confluence). The mountains are scarred from the 1996 Honda fire. I read the Red River area is BEAUTIFUL, especially the view from La Junta plateau.

    This is addicting.

    • Love the “Dangerously Good Insights” – WELCOMED & PREFERRED.

      … and you’ll have to be on-site for the BLAZE …


  75. YIKES & double YIKES!!! Burned my dinner, it’s gettin’ dark, my nose is runnin’, & I gotta pee! I need to get my life back on course. Where IS my book?

    How do I contact FF if when I know where the treasure chest is hidden? Do I actually have to go get it? I don’t wanna…please don’t make me.

    • Lol! Welcome to my world!! It takes awhile for the books to ship! I’ve finally got my hubby reading it! j

      Sent from my iPhone

        • >> What stories are in it anyway? I can’t even find contents


          TO READ or NOT TO READ …


          Wait for the MOVIE to come out ? 🙂

        • Some of the stories are on his blog. So go RE read those till your book gets in!! It’s a fantastic book. You’ll cry and laugh! j

          Sent from my iPhone

  76. Very true. I had also considered areas like the Arkansas River in Colorado where the train tracks run along side the river, but I suppose over time those may no longer be there as well.

    • They’re still there. Checked one of the train bridges before Forrest came out with the “no structures” clue.

  77. Dal,

    “blaze”- could this possible reference what you need to forge the bell he wax-designed? The hot furnace would be ablaze to heat it, and metaphorically, his bell could be the blaze near the cache. How cool would it be to have someone find the treasure, but leave the bell for future generations to ring in respect of our TOTC and pursuit of happiness…that is right before us.

  78. Anybody – Please tell me what the first story is – in the book. I cannot find the table of contents anywhere.

    • I think its the one about books. Literature something I believe. Don’t have book here.

      Sent from my Samsung Galaxy™ S II 4GTHRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

      • Oh yes! He goes to Borders looking for books….. Then he decides to write his own!

        Sent from my iPhone

      • For starters and I have yet to read the chapters, here are the first 3
        Important literature
        first grade
        No place for biddies

    • Hi Becky! Stephanie is correct. The first story is about “important literature” in which he discusses Hemingway and Fitzgerald, etc.

      • Thanks, Stephanie & Jen. That story does not appear to be on the Blogs. Can you give me the name of the last one? If I can’t read the first one maybe I can start at the back & work my way to the front. Now, there’s a plan. I wonder if he’s a nice man.

        • Forrest nice? Hes nicer than me and I think I’m kinda nice lol. Last story is umm guess you would say the epilogue. I think before th

      • Steve – Hi. I missed you. Where ya been? Good thing we didn’t head west because we would have been in all that bad weather.

        What? Hemingway/Fitzgerald? Why was he looking for books & what made him decide to write his own? Is FF’s story about their works or just literature in general? GEEZE! Do I have to research them too? I don’t know very much about either of them. Not up my creek. I WANT MY BOOK! I NEED IT! NOW!!!

      • Stephanie – You said the last story is the epilogue. That IS on the Blog. I can read that one.You started to say something about the story that comes right before the epilogue, I think, but the end of the sentence did not appear. What were you saying?

        Also where is the definite statement of FF saying in the Rockies north of Santa Fe? I thought there are only 11 clues total.

        • The story before I think is about his wife peggy I think. He says on his resource page on his web site its in mountains north of sant fe.

          Sent from my Samsung Galaxy™ S II 4GTHRILL OF THE CHASE wrote:

      • Now here is something I have considered. The book he liked was “Catcher in the Rye”. He said that book was his story minus the stuff when he was a kid. Maybe there are insight’s to be gleamed in reading that book. I just have a hard time buying the book because the creep that shot John Lennon has it on his person at the time and had been reading it. Apparently he made some type of connection between the book and Lennon.

  79. Wow on the tracking discussions, this site used have great conversations. What happened????

    • Do I detect judgment? There have been many, many posts that I considered “out there” or frivolis. It is concievable, though I agree not likely, that tracking devices might be included in the chest. There have been all kinds of odd perceptions carried in this blog. Why isolate this one?

      • Not judging, but the poem will take you there without trying to figure out some frequency that one could detect. You don’t need the book or a map, just 6 stanzas. i think some old wize guy said that.

      • …Tracking Devices have been discussed in previous PARTS… this is PART Six… you may need to search previous blogs to pick up the thread on Tracking Devices…

    • It would be great if we did not have to constantly repeat the same basic information over and over. Often folks who jump in here start asking questions first. In my opinion it would sure be nice if we all read what’s on this blog first. Then ask questions to try to get additional information. Maybe then we could move forward with our discussion because everyone would have the same basic information about what has been said by Forrest. A good place to start with the basic information everyone wants to know is to go here:


  80. Hi, I was thinking the other day that the treasure could be in a waterproof container if embedded in water. There are technologies, that Forrest probably doesn’t know about, but none the less . . . There are techs that can waterproof objects in an amazing way. Watch this TED video. http://bit.ly/XbT5EH

    • WOW JP – That stuff is fantastic! I don’t know if FF submerged the treasure using TED technology but he maybe could have used some other way. I just know if he did submerge it, he definitely would have protected it somehow as he really liked that beautiful box.

      • Yes, CJ, I agree. It is just too valuable of a box to leave exposed like that in a river.. However he did choose bronze for it’s longevity.

    • Thanks Dal. I had been trying to make sense of why Forrest did this. I had read/heard about wanting to take his goods with him why he thought he was going to die. I had also heard that he did it for the kids. Now I hear both together which helps to clarify by hearing them both at once but I still don’t quite feel I understand completely. It sounds as though he is saying he had 2 options, take it with him or the treasure chest.

    • aha, he says Rocky Mountains and also that the clues he is providing on the Today show are not going to lead anyone to the treasure. Interesting . . .

  81. This sucks. I have solved some of the poem but need help with the rest. Don’t want to just lay the treasure in the lap of someone who can figure out the rest. How do you guys handle that?

    • … by TOTALLY DISCOUNTING the CLAIM that they’ve got it FIGURED OUT … if you know where it is GO GET IT …

      Maybe you can catch a ride with BLAINE …

    • desmond sorry to inform you but no one can have some of the Poem solved and the rest of the Poem not solved.

      I have said it before and I will say it again…if you know “where warm waters halt” then everything else will immediately fall into place like a domino effect. That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it!

      desmond if you knew which “canyon” you still cannot say you solved the Poem as you still don’t know where to go from there.

      The person “hopefully me” that solves the Poem will go confidently to the Trove like taking a drive to Walmart to buy a gallon of milk and eggs. That easy!

      So in my opinion anyone who says they solved part of the Poem or whatever really hasn’t solved it they are simply guessing to it’s location!

      • I generally agree, but with 1 caveat: 1) WWWH is proven by subsequent answers. One cannot be sure that WWWH is correct unless “home of Brown” justifies it, which itself must be justified by finding the blaze. All clues must be solved before answers to prior clues are certain. They must fit together.

      • VG, In my opinion, your opinion is incorrect. I understand the following breakdown is subjective, but this is how I see them…9 clues – three relatively easy when taken in context, three relatively difficult and three (including the most clever one) nearly impossibly obscure and difficult. None of the more difficult ones just fell into place.

    • Des, Step away from it for a bit and think about what you are stuck on from different angles. Then, come back and research all the different ways you found to look at it.

  82. @Dal,
    You wrote: The question one must consider is…does lack of Forrest driven information suggest that the treasure is not located in ID/UT/CO ?

    I’ve been thinking about that for awhile now. Is the last place Fenn would hide the treasure where he has written extensively about……There could be many special places to him that he hasn’t written about…….I lived in Big Piney WY for a couple years and one of my favorite fishing spots was Half Moon Lake and Baby Half Moon Lake (I think it’s really called Little Half Moon but the locals always called it Baby Half Moon). They are two of several high mountain lakes in the Wind River Range. Most likely it will be mid to late summer before those are accessible. The favorite joke of the locals in Big Piney is saying they had a beautiful summer but they missed it because they were out of town that weekend.

    I’ve also given some thought to the Uinta Mountains in Utah…….The only east-west mountain range in the country I believe. I lived in Layton UT for a couple years and went up there every chance I got……The only problem with the Uintas is they are classified primitive and you can only hike or take horses.

    There are many beautiful areas in the Rockies Fenn didn’t write about that could have been special to him…….I think I’ll concentrate on those areas this summer; the treasure might not be there but at least I won’t have to worry about being run over by flatlanders with pink toenails. 😆

  83. As too being impressed with Forrest’s poem … considering spending 3 fortnight or so in a boat, contemplating it’s meaning, and looking for the treasure.

    The more it is pondered, the more it is appreciated – what a display of ingenuity … metaphor, technical structure, and just a great challenge.

    Thanks Forrest. Beautiful.


  84. As too being impressed with the poem, considering spending 3 fortnigh or so in a boat, contemplating its meaning.

    The poem is an outright display of ingenuity, mixing metaphor and technical structure into an exciting, fun challenge.

    Beautiful, Forrest. Thank-you,

  85. I watched the 16min. video of the reporter with FF. I watched Forrest working at his Pueblo site. I understand what he means when he said “nowhere an 80 yr old man couldn’t go”. He looks dexterous enough to bend and shovel small loads of dirt but his gate is short and calculated. He wasn’t carrying and extra weight while doing this on level terrain.

    My point is: There will be no leaping, jumping, serious climbing, paddling against rapids or the like to get to his special place. Period.

    So if you are straining to reach your selected local, Don’t.

  86. PART 6 already in regards to the NINE CLUES with approx. 3,600 comments on this NINE CLUES topic and yet not one person or group of persons has solved the Poem’s 9 clues nor have retrieved the Treasure Trove?

    I thought 2 heads were better than 1 and 3 heads were better than 2…so on and so forth..

    Soon Dal will be closing this PART 6 thread down and be starting PART 7 to the NINE CLUES.

    Seriously my fellow Chasers can we not all put our heads together and list the NINE CLUES already or at least half of them…you know NINE CLUES that we all agree upon, vote on, and let’s all head out to that spot!

    I can see now why Forrest Fenn continues to give out clues like mcdonalds sells mcnuggets.

    • Boss, i understand your point but think it is the nature of it’s size to be unfocussed. I doubt we can change it. However, i do enjoy the banter and sometimes there is placer gold and some actual ore to be mined from it.

    • >> I thought 2 heads were better than 1 and 3 heads were better than 2…so on and so forth.. Soon Dal will be closing this PART 6 thread down and be starting PART 7 to the NINE CLUES

      That’s why “Dangerously Good Insights” are WELCOMED & PREFERRED.

      Too much talking in CODE… we have the POEM for CODE TALKERS…

  87. Separate perspective for those looking at the numerical aspect:

    “There’ll be no paddle up your creek”
    Three’11 be no paddle up your creek”

    3 11


    • @astree

      Yup! Rather than there being 9 clues, I believe there are about 311 clues.

      • >> @astree Yup! Rather than there being 9 clues, I believe there are about 311 clues.

        … and at least 311 HIDEY SPOTS …

      • That’s right. Not only are there about 311 clues and about 311 great spots North of Santa Fe that support the clues but there is only 1 chest.

        I find it amazing that with Forrest Fenn having buried so many of his bells and with so many people on the hunt for the Treasure Trove that not 1 person has found a bell. Hmmm…How many bells did he bury and how many Treasure Troves did he secret?

        We can’t even find 1 of his several bells out there but yet we all are trying to find his 1 Treasure Trove out there? ODDS are definitely against all on this Hunt. But hey we have a Poem, Book and all of us on this blog are helping each other…right?

        • I don’t see why you would even try to find his bells. There are no clues to them and we know he does not expect them to be found til long after he is gone. Further, they are all buried deeper than three feet. I am aware of a landscape where he buried a couple and there is no way anyone can tell they are there. These are random burials, without clues and buried by a guy who doesn’t want you finding them.

        • The BELLS are BURIED… the TREASURE is NOT.

          METAL DETECTORS to FIND the BELLS are ILLEGAL in most areas… unless it is YOUR LAND…

  88. astree if Forrest Fenn is a genius, which I believe he is, then what does that make the person who solves the Poem and finds the Treasure Trove and claims title to it…a genius as well?

  89. But did Mr F say he made two trips to carry the treasure or did he just say he made two trips…? He may have made one trip to make sure no one was around his hiding spot.

    • In my opinion, at his age, no matter how fit he was at the time or is right now, he has to have made 2 trips…Not easy to secret a Treasure Trove worth millions by just going in there alone and doing what he did for it not to be found for 100’s if not 1,000’s of years. I say 2 or more trips…TIRED AND WEAK!

  90. LOL SantaFe Smart!! yeah. I think DollarBill’s recent post about how to approach the clues was excellent too for people new to the hunt.
    Thank you so much Dal for providing this blog. It is an excellent resource and service to all of us treasure hunters.
    One thing I will say for the newcomers though…too much blog reading can be dangerous too. I almost just gave up a search that I think will be very important due to recent comments on forums…not sure which I was reading. No matter. The point is, when you have given the poem lots and lots of thought and have applied the clues to areas you are considering. The most important next step is to get out there and look for yourself. Even if that particular outing does not lead to the discovery of the treasure, it will spark new thoughts and new perspective about the hunt and ultimately where the treasure might be hidden. Read, yes, but rely on your own thinking. That’s my best advice.
    Good luck in the search all. Thanks again, Dal, and thanks to everybody for your input!

  91. Hi, longtime listener, first-time caller…
    Something I have wondered about is the wording “not far, but too far to walk”. First off, is that specifically referring to how far we are to “take it in” to the canyon, or how far the treasure is altogether? Also, what constitutes “too far” to walk? I could walk across the US with enough time and supplies… is FF saying that you are UNABLE to walk this part?

    • not far,(15% fiction?) but too far to walk(85% fact?)
      not far,(85% fact?) but too far to walk(15% fiction?)

      Could it be:
      far, but not that far to walk?
      not far, just a hop, skip and a jump.

  92. I just got back from my lunch break and bought one of those pull behind coolers at walmart. My buddy says, “You really think you’re going to find it, don’t you?”…Of course I think that. I’m sure I’ll still have a use for the cooler even if I don’t.

  93. Does anyone know if it is allowed to fly Octocopter Drones in the mountains?
    Which month has the lowest wind speed in the mountains?



  94. Line twelve of the poem…

    Just heavy loads and water high.

    I know that a lot of people think that “water high” means a waterfall, dam, spillway…ect. However someone ( I am not sure who ) on one of the earlier pages stated they believe this to be a fly fishing term. I have never fly fished mountain streams ( I am a flatlander ) so some of the terms may be different so please enlighten me if my interpretation is incorrect…
    Heavy…weight of the line and if there is a swift current then split shots may be used
    Load…flex of the rod while casting…?
    Water high…upstream

    In other words if my interpretation is close to correct then Mr F is referring to a fly fishing spot with current.

    • @Rickinflorida

      Hi Rick. I remember reading about an exploration of the Colorado River in the early to mid 1800’s (I think it was led by John Wesley? Powell) and at one point on the rapids on their raft they nearly lost all of their supplies and in his journal he wrote that it was due to heavy loads and high water, referring to boulders and the rapids. “High Water” is a rafting term for rapids that are Class III and above.

      That was my original take on that part of the poem. Hope it helps.

        • Spire >> High water might also refer to deep pools that inevitably form in a river or creek bed.

          … maybe we have to be wearing CHEST WADERS …

          will it be worth the COLD ( Water ) …

          • or perhaps FF warns of high waters, and if we are wise we might see a way avoid pools by walking the banks. maybe if one sees the blaze in time, one can also avoid them

      • your high water interpretation is something i hadnt seen yet or thought of.. i like it. and it would certainly narrow down water sources.. as santa fe says thats dangerously good insight

        • There are several historical stories like that through all the rocky states! It’s a good way to go! j

          Sent from my iPhone

      • Steve, I thought that “no place for the meek” might refer to rapids too, especially after you “Put in below the home of Brown”.

  95. Line twelve of the poem…

    Just heavy loads and water high.

    I know that a lot of people think that “water high” means a waterfall, dam, spillway…ect. However someone ( I am not sure who ) on one of the earlier pages stated they believe this to be a fly fishing term. I have never fly fished mountain streams ( I am a flatlander ) so some of the terms may be different so please enlighten me if my interpretation is incorrect…
    Heavy…weight of the line and if there is a swift current then split shots may be used
    Load…flex of the rod while casting…?
    Water high…upstream

    In other words if my interpretation is close to correct then Mr F is referring to a fly fishing spot with current.

    • sorry bout that…it posted twice and in the middle instead at the bottom of these posts…???

      • >> it posted twice

        That’s Okay, Even when repeated “Dangerously Good Insights” – WELCOMED & PREFERRED.

        Yeah, I think we’re looking for Forrest’s favorite Fishing Spot as well… maybe there’s a COLD “all year long” BREWSKY to go along with that GOLDEN TWINKIE STEPH talked about being in the box…

    • Heavy Loads maybe load is purposely misspelled could be lode.
      Heavy Lodes a lot of Lode claims and Lode mining along the creek.
      It is a puzzle words words with different meaning words that sound alike but spelled different.
      Just another thought.

      • More of a description of one of the clues but it helps confirm your interpretation.

      • Fenn says don’t change the spelling and capitalization. I looked at this before but concluded he would have just spelled it “lode”, otherwise it is deception. I feel we have to interpret this word as it is spelled and consider all the possible meanings to solve the puzzle. To me this word is key to my solution.
        The Wolf

      • Wolf where did you read that from Fenn.
        I have not came across that.
        I would like to read it.