539 thoughts on “THE NINE CLUES….Part Twenty

    • Jeese! Page 19 turned into a hockey game. Here’s hoping things stay less combative on 20.
      Germanguy…did you get to your search area?

    • German guy et al, in response to your question to me pt. 19. “Fenn said not to change the poem isn’t that changing the poem?” this is in regard to my jigsaw puzzle comment. Yes, it is changing the arrangement of the lines but not the words. I interpret the poem literally, probably more than anyone out there. But after reading the tips page- 13 specific tips on number six last sentence direct quote “The poem is a puzzle” I had read on the blog how searchers discussed crossword puzzles but that doesn’t work for me. So I consider this: the poem is a jigsaw puzzle. Fenn carries puzzle in a box to a table and turns it over and the pieces fall out he says “there ya go kids!” So it’s up to us to turn the colored sides up, first find the corner pieces then the borders and start filling it in. But I have to say in doing this I don’t find a route to the chest. To get to my search areas, I solve the poem more literally with double entendre and old fashioned word play.

      • German guy er at, I forgot to add final statement in my last post to you got caught up in the explanation lol. Anyway IF the poem is a puzzle doesn’t that mean you have to mess with it? Poem/puzzle=poezzle? Puzzem? Riddle/poem= riddem?poeddle?

        • There is some trickster involved, but I’ve found that he tries to stick to the rules. There’s no shifting around of the lines. There is some metaphors in play here. Not always literal. IMHO

  1. Hi all. I think my last post got stuck between 19 & 20. Just want to wish everyone a safe a fun-filled holiday weekend coming up. I’m heading out in the morning for some fun in the Rockies and will be out there for a couple of weeks. Hope I don’t miss out on too much while I’m away! Good luck all!

  2. Does anyone know the exact date Forrest hid the treasure? I know it was 2010, but the month, summer, fall? Was he in still in good enough shape at the time to make a bit of a trek with the treasure on board? Ty

    • He has purposefully been very vague about that……He said his wife didn’t know when he hid it.

    • Secrent, my guess is October 2010 based on the line-“your effort will be worth the cold” hidden just before winter set in fenn thought the poem would be solved during the winter and a searcher would find it early spring, just as snow was disappearing still cold out.

    • @ Horatio – Actually, I thought he mentioned something about August – That was why he fluxuated in his age – it was apparently around his birthday – which was in August – but then again, I have absolutely no references to back that up – just something I may have read or heard. – Good luck to all the searchers!

    • Just a point of reference –

      There is an armchair treasure hunt titled “Fandango: The Key to the Wind”. It is directly stated in the puzzle intro, that the treasure is on Mount Desert Island in Maine.

      That island is about 100 square miles. The hunt has been ongoing for yearssssss …

      Some of the places under discussion are many times that large.

      • astree that’s a great point of reference: Fandango “The Key to the Wind” which makes solving the Thrill of the Chase seem crazy impossible. People on this Thrill of the Chase simply will ignore the huge odds against them because of this:

        Forrest Fenn is such a great promoter that he is making the Thrill of the Chase and his Treasure Chest seem as if it’s easy to solve and locate. He has provided a Poem, Book, Audio and Video as well as TV Interviews, his Blog with Photos, other peoples blogs and Photos, etc… Forrest Fenn is making the Rocky Mountains seem like a small area, he has made it seem possible to find his Treasure Chest and thus people ignore the odds against them…Forrest Fenn has shrunk the landscape, the terrain, North of Santa Fe, NM through great promoting. Forrest Fenn is awesome like that, I admire the son of a gun!

        While Fandango “The Key to the Wind” and other Treasure Hunts out there are easier to solve “odds wise” than the Thrill of the Chase people, including myself, believe otherwise and will shoot of the stars rather than the moon. Fandango is a mere $10,000 prize, chump change, compared to the Thrill of the Chase at a whopping $1,000,000 plus bounty.

        http://mysteriouswritings.com/fandango-the-key-to-the-wind/

        • VGBOSS –

          Human history is filled with great achievements and setbacks. As a general comment, it seems to me that many of the setbacks were emotion run amuck, while the achievements were greatly aided by human intellect.

          The desire to find the treasure is a powerful ally, but only when coupled with an approach to the puzzle that makes sense, improve the odds.

          http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/1/17172/1074014-haystack.jpg

          This is what I believe it means when he said “to move with confidence” ( not the adult undergarment).

    • Sorry … What I, and some others, suggest is developing the clues to pinpoint a precise location, e.g., 123 North Tango Ave, front left yarp.

      Otherwise, one relies on sheer luck.

    • Argus-
      Not in it’s entirety. But I would guess hundreds of people have searched many hundreds of different locations within it. It’s a BIG place.

  3. Stopped at Taco Bell yesterday and noticed a quote on the spice packet.

    “If you never do, You’ll never know.”

    How appropriate!

    The Thrill of the Chase

  4. Some of the horses are in the far turn, have they gone past the chest? The old maverick, asks us to trust that the chest is really there, no problem. He says, if we see the blaze to look quickly down, is that a location? Yes, but which one, all we can do is to take them in order, Mr. Fenn asks us where, but he never says specifically, where.

    • Thinking about the horses in the far turn, another thought came to me, about the two people that got the first two clues right, but went past the chest. Which, first two clues? The first two clues in the poem? Or the first two clues at there site? I don’t think that I will be in a big hurry to follow those horses, I do agree with there thinking, but which two clues, gives me pause for thought.

    • That question has come up here twice before and there is a post about the Jemez on this blog. The short answer is that the US Geological Survey, who one might consider the experts on such matters, says that the Jemez Mountains are the southern extent of the Rocky Mountains.

  5. All of our solutions are nothing more than an educated guess. Some better than others. We are obviously missing something and it’s probably dangling right in front of our faces.
    All those tornadoes last night made me extra thankful my family and i woke up in one piece.

  6. I wish I could know for certain if I was researching the correct general area. I feel I am, until I get to the “Blaze” part, then I’m at a loss. On my last search, I felt so positive I had the exact right spot/blaze, then after I got there, nothing! If you look quickly down from the “Blaze”, the chest should be there, right? “Your quest to cease… “Quickly” sounds to me that you are there at the spot. I also am having difficulty with the “Wise” part. That could entail a lot of research in my estimation! But then, the poem goes on and says to “Hear him and listen good”. That takes me to a completely different location, but still within the same general area, but miles away. Then it says “Your effort will be worth the cold (that must mean you have to get in cold water and head towards some trees in my eyes… I thought my quest ceased back at the Blaze! Why is it so far from the Blaze? This is confusing to me since we are being told to follow the clues in order to find the chest. I’m exhausted.

    NotSoWise

    • NotSoWise, I hear you on that! I’m exhausted as well, though not enough to stop thinking 24/7… 🙂
      I had at one point thought that “look quickly down” could be Iris Falls in YNP…… sounded great to me at the time. Ugh, so many interpretations to consider… lcm2k@yahoo.com

  7. Hi JJ, I think what’s dangling in front of our faces, is that there is, no difinative answer, no process of elimination, no one place for us, where X marks the spot. Only the search.

    • always on the clock.. so , this morning i was trying to catch up on part 19 and noticed lots of posts in no particular order.. people commenting to other posts that are strewn miles above and below and its very difficult to follow.. so i have a suggestion.. when someone wants to respond to someone else just click on the reply link in the lower right hand corner.. and your post will magically appear under the related conversation… i’m not the brightest bulb, but this is a relatively easy process to follow.. thanks and i’ll be lurking.. carry on 🙂

      • Casey, I’ve done exactly that, and about 1/3 of my posts have just gone to some random spot. Other people have had the same thing happen, it must be some kind of intermittent glitch.

      • Casey,

        It seems the “reply” disappears after so many replies, when responding to a
        reply” of a “reply” of a “reply” so that’s not always possible.

        I’d like to see the name of the person being responded to at the top of the reply so we know at least who it was intended for, and leave the name out if meant as a general reply. I know this would help me… and boy do I need it.

        jdh

        • agree jdh…. i know what you mean about link dissappearing. i think when that occurs you have to go up to orginal post and click reply there and response will at least be in the proper column i think.. btw jdh, i enjoyed your recent search experience.. dont think i’d had the guts to do what you did! becareful out there..:)

  8. Good morning from Maine….Wishing luck to everyone out in our great outdoors searching and hope you truly find a treasure and contentment.

  9. Does anyone have any idea as to how Forrest came to choose his secret spot? I thought I heard it had special meaning to him… Any thoughts on this?

    • could be a fishing spot, an archaeology spot, or maybe a place he enjoyed as a kid etc. I’d look for a peaceful, beautiful, protected spot that he’d like to spend his last moments at. CHC

      • Yes that was my initial thought also, but I was also wondering if it could have anything to do with his being diagnosed with cancer.

        • I had thought about that angle too and looked for something related to “kidney” or “cancer” etc, in some of the areas I was looking. I gave up on that idea when I couldn’t make the other clues fit no matter how I interpreted them.

        • CJinCA,
          Your post really cracked me up. I just imagined someone out there looking for a kidney tacked to a tree (they are kind of shaped like a “blaze” after all). Maybe I’m just getting slap happy. Thanks for making the endorphins surge.

          • He, he – glad to give you a little comic relief! Don’t laugh too much though – there is a Kidney Geyser in YNP with so many spots around it that seem to fit the clues, I was sure it was around there some place. It still may be a good place to look! 🙂

        • Maybe his spot is a magical clearing with a waterfall that he made an agreement with – it worked in Vietnam… Only Forrest knows.

        • I thought of Blatter Dam by the Canadian border in MT… lol, it IS where warm waters halt!! 🙂

    • Yes, I believe he said the spot has special meaning to him, but he never said why it was special. I could see why this would make people want to look in places like YNP, but that is not where I am searching.

  10. Will be going back to my spot soon, this time I’m taking a RF detector I think fenn must be using a GPS tracking device. I can’t think of any other way for him to know if the trove is still there if he can’t see it. Tracker. Can pick up a signal up to two miles away.

    • I agree on the GPS tracking device… RF Detector? Two miles? “Pick up a signal two miles from your tracker or his?

    • For it to work it would have to be outside the chest as the bronze would block the signal. But if it’s outside the chest, then it better be impervious to the weather and cold and that is a challenge for any device. I can’t see any of those possibilities with modern electronics and not even the military owns anything with the kind of battery life needed to stay active for years and xmit a strong enough signal for a satellite.(unless he took a third trip with 50 car batteries) There are also accounts required for an active device and that would be very risky as any employee of the communication company could see Forrest Fenn owns it and know the location.
      Forrest is not a super spy with James Bond type fantasy electronics. He’s just guessing it’s still out there based on the fact that nobody has come forward. He has stated that he thinks whoever finds the chest would not be able to keep quiet as the chase attracts crazies like us who want the fame of being the ONE who found it.
      And keep in mind, if it’s outside the chest, who’s going to grab it along with the chest. I would simply place it to the side and go on my way. Thus, it wouldn’t even work as he needed.
      There is zero chance the chest is ping’ing any signal after 3 years. Zero!

      • I have said this before, and I will say it again…The reason ff knows its still there is because of this…He put it somewhere BRILLIANTLY clever, and has such confidence in the location that he “knows” it hasn’t been recovered. All he has to do is observe the various blogs and he can tell if the searching community is on the right track…I’m betting so far, only a few have solved the first two, and everyone is way off on the other seven…

    • Good luck, but in the Collective Works interview he did say there was no way he could know for sure if someone had found it. That disappointed me because I thought it might have a signal or gps or cam of some sort.

      • I am not sure where you heard that in the CW interview, but I would love for you to source it. At 15:15 of the interview he is asked (and this is verbatim):

        QUESTION: “Is there an active GPS on board, I mean, how else would you know if someone had found it?”

        FORREST: ” Well, I don’t want to answer either one of those questions, but, but, I know that the treasure is still where I hid it.”

        At no point did I hear him say: “DaveC3119: no way he could know for sure if someone had found it.”

        Doesn’t sound like he ruled out GPS or any other form of electronic method for knowing whether the chest was still at the hidey spot. BTW, anyone that thinks Fenn is ignorant of technology, and wouldn’t be aware of 21st century tracking, should sit in the cockpit of a Vietnam era fighter jet. Don’t buy his aw shucks, country rube, “how do I use this remote control” act.

        Yes, I believe a solar-powered, motion-detecting camera system is a definite possibility. It could be easily secreted in a rock crevice well away from the trove. If we can’t find a 10″X10″X6″ box with clues, then I don’t find it inconceivable that a self contained camera/solar unit the size of a pack of cigarettes could stay hidden…especially without clues to its whereabouts.

        • Scott C, if he has a GPS transmitter in the chest he could easily track the chest, however, anyone smart enough to find the treasure would most likely leave the GPS device and quickly go in peace.

        • GPS transmitters can be pretty small to see in a pile of coins and artifacts, or even hidden in the lining of the box or in a fake gold coin (like one of those chocolate Easter ones…mmmm that would be worth the cold). I doubt a sane searcher would take the time creek-side to rummage through the box to find the tracking unit to dispose of…that would be brave indeed.

        • Scott C. It is just after the 500 foot comment. Go to 23:15 and give it a listen. I just checked it again and he is pretty clear about it.
          Hope that helps. Idont know how to post a link to it, but it is in the media section.
          Regards,
          DavidC3119

        • Scott C…from Forrest’s resource page. “Has the Treasure been found? To our knowledge, NO! There is always a chance that someone has found it and hasn’t made it public but as far as we know it’s still out there.” There will always be a chance someone finds it and does not say a word to anyone- which means it could have already been found. GPS, cameras etc. would make his knowledge definitive. It would also create a beacon that could easily be found with the right search equipment. CHC

        • CHC, true, his web page says that, however, consider the alternative. If the answer had just been “No” to that question, then that would make it certain that: 1. he had a tracking device or camera on it 2. he or someone else checked on it regularly 3. he can see it from some vantage point 4. there was never a treasure in the first place.

          All of those would be too big of a hint about the location or method of spotting the chest. I do agree that it is most likely that he is hoping the finder will not be able to keep it secret and that is how he will know, but I don’t think a GPS/camera would be definitive as you say. For instance, a GPS could lose battery life, get soaked, or be discovered as Stan mentioned earlier, any of which would render Fenn clueless (Ha, the irony!), and a camera can only store so many hours of footage before too much data becomes unwieldy and hard to look through (at my restaurants, we can only store about 2 weeks before it is purged…think of storing 12 movies a day and see how long before your Gigs are used up) so the actual discovery of the chest could be missed even by camera and someone poring over hours of footage, which I have a hard time envisioning Forrest doing anyway.

          Anyway, it is up to each searcher to decide for themselves…I will admit Fenn seems to contradict himself…check out the Collected Works audio…at 15:15 he says he knows it is still where he hid it, and at about 24:02 he implies that he can’t know until someone blabs about it. Fennspeak.

        • @Scott C, Agree, I think that either the search has to lead to some sort of “title” or set of instructions (i.e. not the actual chest) or he is using a device. It is highly unlikely that a person would leave a fortune of that magnitude just “out there” without making provisions for it after his death and that requires some way of knowing where it is for the attorney. Both possibilities have been discussed before on this blog. I personally think he has the chest in a safe deposit box somewhere but would like to hear more about devices. A solar device seems most reasonable in the long term (maybe). How far could he put it away from the actual chest? Are they that powerful?

        • Are there not some sattelite mapping or live feeds that are much higher resolution than Google Earth that available for civilian subscriptions? Not sure it would have to be GPS dependent.

    • OK – how is he powering this GPS tracking device? Do we look for a solar panel sticking up out of the junipers? 🙂

    • Last weekend as I looked around a certain unnamed area I happened to look up across the road and noticed a travel trailer behind some trees on the hill above the area. Hmmm does that give you a ny ideas? Lots of ways to monitor stuff.

      • @ Azuredeb – A travel trailer? 🙂 where were you? That’s sooooo Cool! I love that! email me @ L737L at aol dot com – please!

  11. While I’m not an expert, it looks to me like GPS devices that are ideal for this sort of thing are generally set up to get “pinged” by a satellite perhaps once a day. This allows them to be in place for years at a time on one battery. If that’s the case you’d have to be pretty lucky to catch that kind of short milli-second transmission and get a triangulation on it. If it were me, I’d set it up to ping at midnight when no ones out looking.

      • But the chest isn’t moving, a small easy to carry astronomical telescope, setup on a hill side, or looking out of a window, could accomplish the task.

      • I don’t think so JJ, you would have to be to close, it would be to risky. With the A.T. you could be 5-10-15 miles away, and the chest would look like you could reach out and touch it.

      • You have an active GPS chip in your dogs? Maybe a tracking chip that can be read by an animal shelter at close range….

      • to Illinois ghost, I am in desperate need of a device for my dog to located him when he runs off, do you mind telling me what you use?

  12. I doubt a man who admittedly didn’t anticipate the use of such tools as GoogleEarth would set anything up so elaborate as GPS devices that are hooked into satellites and “ping”. Just my opinion. He’s too old school for that. His ability to tell if the chest remains where he placed it is much more likely to hinge on some kind of clever Indiana Jones/Mayan style device he has set up. He’s stated that he is indifferent as to how he feels regarding whether or not it’s found in his lifetime. GPS and other “electronicals” probably won’t stand the test of time. Remember, he is talking about it not being found for hundreds, possibly thousands, of years. Who will mind the GPS pinger thingy in ten years when, God forbid, he’s passed? Just my two cents.

      • FF is the same as us. If we did not want anyone to know what clues we have found in the poem, then why are we on here discussing the clues we do find? FF is doing the same thing each time he gives a new clue or answers an email

        • Is he giving us clues? Everyone analyzes his emails and every word he states, but are they clues or does he get a good laugh about it later. I can’t think of another person who’s ever had his every word analyzed like this.(maybe a President) It must be hilarious to be him. Every time he speaks, I think of the movie – “The man with one red shoe”.

      • I think it’s a valid question ghost. I know I, would rather be alive to laugh about it.

    • I think stephanie davis figured it out from a clue, that probably, no blue would pick up on, in something she read.

    • I agree argus. I think he’s “old school” too. I may be wrong but I always had the feeling that the reason ff said he wanted that turquoise bracelet back was so he would be contacted when the treasure was found. No one has contacted him yet telling him he can have his bracelet back so probably the treasure has not been found. JMHO 🙂

      • Yes, it may be that there is something to tell him about the bracelet that would let him know you’ve found the chest.

      • Wasn’t going to get into the “how he knows it’s been found” convo. but had a theory, what the heck. I remember in one interview, not sure where now maybe someone remembers, but he talked about having a roll of $1000 dollar bills rolled up and was going to put it in the chest then decided to take it out. There could be a key / note along with the gold (so the gold is a given) that would tell the finder to go to a safety deposit box with the wad of bills, could be say 50’Gs, not a lot of people would pass that up. Someone accesses the safety deposit box, he knows it’s been found. Not sure how long one can keep a safety box for but I think it is a while.

        • I’m glad someone brought that topic up about ff deciding to take out something he originally put in the chest. In April he said that he had put a 1000 dollar bill and 2 500 dollar bills in the chest, but took them out because he worried about them holding up against a lengthy exposure to moisture…. the very next thing he said was (IMHO) VERY significant. He said he wished now that he left them in the chest. WHY?? Is it because there will not be as much moisture as he originally thought? Or maybe he thinks someone is so close to the solution that they will find it soon? I think that statement was definitely something that could help in the search for sure. Any thoughts?

      • I remember him saying in more than one email in the “Forrest Gets Email” blog way back in Oct 2012, that he wished he had not put that bracelet in the chest, and that he would be willing to buy it back. Most people would just give it back to him if they found the treasure but after thinking about that statement a while I began to think that he really was not that attached to a material object like the bracelet, but that it was a way of perhaps assuring that whoever found the chest would contact him to give the bracelet back and that is how he would know it was found. BUT, Forrest certainly could have put a camera out or used GPS technology – he is VERY smart!

        Hank, he did say in Scrapbook 32 about his friend who designed the Sacagawea dollar coin and had given him some bill commemorating their working together, ” I put the $1,000 bill and two $500 bills in the treasure chest originally but after thinking about it I took them out because I didn’t know how moisture would effect them over a long period of time.”. It wasn’t a great deal of money compared to the rest of the treasure and I always felt that in that Scrapbook blog there was a subtle clue about where the treasure was hidden. Near a river or stream which might flood? Behind a waterfall? Out in the open, maybe under brush, where rain and snow might make it too damp? He did seal his autobiography in a jar so he could have done the same with the bills – that made me wonder…….

        • I’ve wondered why he would want that bracelet back too. My theory is that by claiming he wants part of the loot back is his way to express his intent that he has not abandoned the property completely. An expression of his intention in this way may help the finder if it is in fact found on federal lands since the feds could only claim ownership of abandoned property. I think the poems wording about “…give title to the gold” also may be worded to address this issue. But then, what the heck to I know!!!

        • Sorry CJ…. i’m a little behind in the blog… lol. I do agree completely that it is a clue of sorts. Didn’t see your post before I posted mine. 🙂

          • No worries Lisa! Just about EVERYTHING Forrest says could be a clue. He is extremely careful when he speaks of the treasure or writes the “Scrapbooks” for Dal to post. Sometimes I interpret his statements as clues and they seem to fit my spot and sometimes they don’t. Unfortunately, it’s not easy to know if, when they seem to fit, it’s not just wishful thinking on my part. 🙂

    • I’ve found GPS devices out there that have an 8 year battery life. If he’s 82 now, in 8 years he’d be 90. Maybe he’ll live that long, and maybe not. But after he’s gone, he won’t need to be tracking it anymore. I believe after he’s gone, his lawyer will have to address the “title to the gold” to whomever finds it. JMHO

      • Well I’ll be…. 8 years! Cool. You learn something new every day – and more than something new every day if you are in the chase!

  13. Sure it depends on whether the devices is transmitting all the time. Transmitting takes a lot of battery power and unless you can be changing batteries frequently it’s not practical. I’m just saying that if you did this you’d probably want it be as maintenance free as possible. I’m actually skeptical that he would do this (satellite ping) as it leaves a possible electronic trail through a third party but give it a shot if you think it will work.

  14. The new clues aren’t really much of a clue. They don’t narrow the field of search. Saying it’s over 5000 ft isn’t much different than saying it’s in the Rocky Mountains. The others (out-houses and cemeteries) I think are just cautionary and giving him some liability cover so people aren’t out doing stupid things for the sake of the chase.

  15. geydelkon at yahoo dot com –

    Tried to e-mail you, and system could not deliver. ( I see the e-mail address is same at your website ). Do you have another e-mail ?

    • Oops – I meant to say that I had used geydelkon at wildstones dot com, not yahoo,

  16. Another rain day it looks like your stuck with me all day! Trying to beat f at his own game may work but i doubt it… he has a few years on most of us.

  17. I also think that WWWH is not a specific start location, other lines in the poem are needed to pin point the start location. I’m not saying it can’t be a geyser or a hot spring but the WWWH has to use more of the poem to tell you which one.

  18. Does the rest of the poem describe WWWH and once you’ve figured out WWWH is located you take that knowledge and take it in the canyon down ? (smoke coming out of my ears)

    • That’s the way I’ve been approaching the poem. I first pick an interpretation of WWWH (geyser, waterfall, dam, cold lake etc) and a possible search area, and then see if my interpretations of the other clues can fit fairly easily without me trying to strong-arm them to fit. Since there are so many interpretations of WWWH, I am having as tough a time as everyone else getting all the clues to work together. 🙂

      • I know what you mean i’ve been at it for a while and really only came up with 3 locations and 2 of them i’m still on the fence about. My favorite spot i’ve been sitting on for almost 4 months. I still believe mother nature put a lock on the chest and only allows it to be retrieved for possibly a 1-2 months. If you research geology it is possible. It fits in with it being found in 1-10,000 yrs. (My opinions)

  19. At the end of our search day yesterday, I found something interesting. About 100 yards from our initial search location I noticed a large rock with and arrow that seemed to be carved in to it. My heart started pounding, thinking I finally found the elusive blaze, while also thinking “why the heck is it pointing up???”. As I am walking up through the snow, looking down, I get to the rock, only to notice it is not an arrow carved in to it. Just a rock. So I went back to my initial viewpoint, and again, there’s the arrow, A perfect arrow pointing up. Best way to describe it might be a block arrow…one that if you drew it on a piece of paper, you’d be able to color it in. It was shocking how perfect it looked from that view point. I was following the poem, which lead me on that path, and the perfect location to see that arrow.
    Now, if it is something, why is it pointing up? We were very short on time at that point, so I stood on top of that rock, and looked quickly down to the location where I thought the chest could be, along a torrent steam. Nothing stood out, but there are lots of rocks in this particular location. This is most likely a coincidence, but I have to go back and search it.
    Since the arrow in the rock doesn’t seem to be man made, all I can reason is that Forrest maybe came across this same arrow in his youth, which made him think it was pointing him on a treasure hunt. Maybe he found nothing, and thought that was too bad it wasn’t associated with a treasure, so he made it part of his treasure hunt. It is a beautiful area, very peaceful.
    Does it seem like Forrest to say once you find the blaze, look quickly down, only to have the blaze pointing up?

    • Mr. UP, in response to your question; “Does it seem like Forrest to say once you find the blaze, look quickly down, only to have the blaze pointing up?” After much contemplation and discussion with my associates, our answer is a resounding “Yes, it does not!”(sound like Forrest?)

    • As I studied the pictue that i took of the arrow, the sun and shadows played a big role in it looking like the perfect arrow. I found it in the 3 o’clock hour. The number 3 is very important in my solution of the poem. Just thought it was interesting for those Indiana jones types that believe the sun light at a certain time of day will reveal the location.
      Also, I have mostly been lurking, but posted a few times…first time being at least a month ago. I didn’t want to use my name, the word UP just came to me. Now I finally get out to search and I find what could be the blaze, pointing UP.

  20. i think maybe the reason i didnt find the chest is because there is a double meaning to stanza one. one meaning i knew about , but the second i didnt see until now, i know what i will do now when i go back.

    • Your location is there an association with ruby anthracite and a staircase?

    • Ah yes Chris Yates the double meaning…I’ve been saying it for months now! Forrest Fenn’s Poem has many faces, a couple of stories, locations, etc…

      To me, VGBOSS, Forrest Fenn’s Poem speaks of 2 locations….when you discover all that I have, with level 1 completely solved, you begin to see the Poem as if the Treasure Chest is on the MOVE…that’s right as if it’s on the MOVE…as if it has legs that of a Frog…leaping from 1 location to another, and another and another… so on and so forth.

      LEAP LEAP LEAP….Chase me…Chase me…Can’t Can’t Catch me kind of attitude this Frog has.

      http://freeuganda.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/frog.jpg

      THRILL OF THE CHASE

  21. Has anyone ever considered that there is only one way water ever really halts? And that once it does, it certainly isn’t warm anymore? I think WWWH is a glacier. Am I alone in this?

      • That was really funny…. BTW – I’m mostly a lurker – but you all don’t have to worry about me – I don’t think I will find the treasure – but I have been out to hunt – I went to Colorado first – near pitkin, then New Mexico (mostly b/c that’s where everyone else seemed to be going ) – for awhile I was convinced that the X was where a river and a trail intersected – so I tried to find the point where the old Spanish trail intersected with the rio chama – which btw – is not an easy task, then I went to the Shoshone (stinking river) in Wyoming – based upon clues from the book, and now i’m back to Colorado – I’m heading there again this weekend!

        The more I think about the nine clues and mr. fenn, the more I become convinced that the Poem is probably not crazy complicated. I think forrest would appreciate someone that goes out and looks for z treasure based upon the riddles in the poem, not necessarily someone who has an app that can rearrange the letters or someone who has ran all the numbers in the book on gps … just my opinion though! – … so on this hunt – I’ve gone back to basics… just working off the poem and following it precisely!

    • Could be, argus33, but–glaciers don’t halt either, really. They do flow, but slowly. I’m glad that the formula for Ice Sheet Dynamics doesn’t have an omega in it.

      -Double Down (is not for the meek)

    • Most glaciers will not be around in the Rockies in a hundred years. Think long term. He knows about GW.

    • I’m trying to make WWWH a little less creative by thinking it simply means to “start out in the wilderness where the luxury of warm water is not readily available during that time” In other words, get out and go camping like ff indicated. The rest of the poem will focus on the starting point.

      • That is a very interesting perspective on WWWH. Like it, as I am trying to keep things simple with the poem.

    • @argus33
      I’ve looked at Glaciers as WWWH…..There are lots of glaciers, 37 I think in Wyoming. Glacier National Park is a beautiful place.

      Last year I looked in the vicinity of Cloud Peak Glacier in the Bighorn Mountains. This combined the notions of clouds and glaciers being WWWH.

      • The Cloud Peak Glacier also could fit “water high” and “worth the cold” … just sayin’. 🙂

  22. Pooka says,

    “7. Stanza 1, 5 and 6 mention Forrest (“I” or “me”) while Stanzas 3, 4 and 6 refer to the reader (“your”, “you’ve”, “you”).”

    good one Pooka. the difference in first person vs second person. i never looked at the poem from this angle. here is the pattern i see. first let me say i think you missed that stanza #2 is in “you” form. the ‘you’ is inferred, which means you can insert the word ‘you’ and it doesnt change the meaning.

    (you) begin it where warm waters halt.
    and (you) take it in the canyon down

    so if i may expound a bit on your excellent discovery here is the overall pattern i see

    the stanzas i call the main stanzas, the ones that are telling you where to go, #2, #3 and #4
    these stanzas are all in the “you” form

    the two stanzas surrounding them, one on top and one on bottom, #1 and #5
    these two stanzas are both in ” I / Me ” form

    the final stanza is a mix of both. first person and second person

    the final line of the poem says ” i ” but also has the word “you”. it is the only line of the poem to have either form of ” I / Me” and any form of “you” together in the same line

    if you were to count the final line of stanza #6 as being both an ” i ” and “you” line then the quantities in stanza 6 match the quantities of the stanzas as a whole preceding it.

    lays out like this. lines 1 and 4 in stanza #6 are ” i ” and so there are 2 total ” i ” lines in stanza 6. this matches that there are 2 total stanzas preceding that are ‘ i ‘ stanzas.

    lines 2 , 3 , 4 in stanza #6 are ‘you’ lines or have the word you. so there are 3 total lines. this matches that there are 3 total ‘you’ stanzas preceding it.

    i think there may be something here but i dont know what it is yet

  23. argue i like your thinking. My opinion was the only way to halt warm water was to freeze it. Glaciers suspend things in time. Some of the most preserved finds have come from a shrinking glacier.

    • I thought about glaciers, but I read that glaciers are always moving. So if the water is still frozen, but the glacier moves, does that count as “halt” ?

      • Do they always move or do they begin to halt once the right temp/winter sets in ? I found the debris field interesting. F has an honest answer when he states he never buried it but that doesn’t mean it’s not buried. A glacier could do the burying for him.

        • JJ
          I read that the glacier is always moving, but I don’t think that the water/snow is. You are right, It is a way to hide the chest, if it was contained in a glacier!!! That would be one way to know that it would stay hidden for a long time. Not sure how he would have gotten it in there though.

      • Oakleygirl, I’ve thought about the tem halt a lot and came to the conclusion that since ff was in the military, halt definitely means HALT. But, I also can’t help thinking that warm water can halt where cold water begins….

  24. argus33

    One of the references I was looking at is where “thaw” was mentioned, I believe in that regard.

    For the record – when I mentioned, in the part 19, re: “erin go bragh” canyon, I was not referring to Irish Canyon.

    astree

    • The word ‘people’ is overused. There are hundreds looking in Colorado right now. Same for all the Rocky Mountain states. Don’t let a couple of people who post a lot skew your thinking. I think most have a favorite state of the month. Last month mine was Montana, this month Colorado, next month might be Idaho or NM. I follow the poem and the clues and I could care less about what some person calls the region.

    • argus33 as much as I love new meXico, as the Treasure Chest’s hiding place, there is no way anyone should rule out any area North of Santa Fe, NM, 5,000ft above sea level, 300 miles West of Toledo, some place in the Rocky Mountains.

      As I stated above…With me strongly believing in solving the Poem…level 1 and level 2….I’m seeing crazy stuFF…as if the darn Treasure Chest is on the MOVE! Darn Frog is fast!

      http://freeuganda.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/frog.jpg

      This could explain why Forrest Fenn wrote the Poem to fit countless places and why he continues to give out clues on the Today Show, video interviews, articles, etc…to help pinpoint where the Frog may be at that particular day, week, or month.

      Do I sound crazy? Wait before you answer that let me ask you 2 questions first…have you caught this frog..this Treasure Chest? How many times have you scrapped your work and started fresh on another location after believing your first site was the right one?

      THRILL OF THE CHASE

      • Lol VGBoss GQ baby sir! I just hope the frog didn’t hop across the border deep into the Canadian rockies. That’s going to ruin my plans. I’m still on the New Mexico frogbandwagon! Yeeehaw !

        • Doubting Thomas you, me, and thousands of others are on the New Mexico bandwagon but my friend you know me how I strongly believe I solved the Poem, level 1 and level 2….I’m now seeing this Treasure Chest moving as if it has Frog legs.

          And as illinoisghost dude stated above… “But if he really does not want it found for thousands of years why release new clues each month”

          BECAUSE IT’S ON THE MOVE!!!

          http://freeuganda.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/frog.jpg

          THRILL OF THE CHASE

      • No you don’t sound crazy VG…you should see what my mind comes up with. So how do I determine where it’s going to be on a particular day, such as Memorial Day for example?

        • I love that username cojfox….makes me think of a FOX sneaking up on a RABBIT don’t know why.

          http://www.funfou.com/funimages/crow-rabbit-fox.jpg

          Well cojfox Memorial Day is the last Monday in the month of May so it looks like MD will fall on May 27th of this year.

          What you will have to hope for is that Forrest Fenn gives his next Today Show clue before then to help you out to see if his new clue is in alignment with your current favorite hot spot.

          I personally say to everyone… if you are heading out to search your hot spot and we are near the end of the month, as we are right now, best wait to hear/watch Forrest Fenn’s next verbal clue and visual clues to see if they fit with your current data and current hot spot. Just my opinion.

  25. hey anyone know about metal detectors, next time i go am going to have one to use. do they detect brass and is there a difference in how it detects certain metals over others, also if something is under ground 6 inches is it going to pick that up, and does the size of the chest help matters in being more detectable?

    • It’s not brass it’s bronze. A metal detector should detect it in Dark Canyon.

    • oh, right, ty for the correction. no i dont think the chest is in dark canyon. see, DT, this is my new revelation.

    • Yes, they can detect bronze. How deep it can detect depends on the quality of detector.

    • I know a bit about them… used one on last search, for all the good it did…sigh. It did give me confidence that I hadn’t missed/overlooked it in the brush/leaf debris. “No digging was involved”

    • Get a large coil for more depth. Brass is no problem as is any metal, but make sure it’s good for treasure and not just a cheap coin detector. But it’s not trivial to use those modern detectors so bring some sample pieces to practice with. I find tons of annoying bullet shells up to 15″ down.
      A 42 lb piece at 1″ -18″ will make that detector ping loudly. (maybe even deeper with a large 18″ coil on it)

    • Chris, I just bought one for the chase, been playing around with it. There is a big price range depending on what it will do. I went mid price. It will tell you what kind of metal it is picking.up. Yes it will detect bronze. But I am thinking FF probably did something to disguise it from metal detectors such as sprinkling iron filings around or covering it with a thin sheet of steel, so beware of that. Check out Kellyco’s website. There’s lots of info there about using them and how to know what you are finding. Still playing with it to see how it would react if he did something like that.

    • There are many different metal detectors . Whites is a good brand then you have minelabs fisher and tesoro. All have there good points and bad points . One is a VLF detector and another one is the pulse induction The pulse induction sends a different kind of signal in the ground kind of like sonar radar with the signal being in the 100’s per second range The VLF (very low frequency) metal detector sends signal impulses in the 1000’s ranges Then you also have anywhere from 3 klhts to 75 kilhts the higher the kilhts the less the depth the lower the deeper depth . Electronics developement has come a long way some top of the line detectors can reach pretty deep most reach 5 t0 10 inches. It also has to do with the coil you use also My suggestion is to get a hand held pinpointer typ easy to cary and will reach up to 5 inches I have a whites TM808 that will reach 5 to 8 ft down and show caves as well quite cumbersome to use and is a box type Good luck all searches Hope this helps

      • I forgot to mention garrett Also a pulse induction has no descrimination in most cases but will not be affected by salt or mineralization or hot rocks. Any of the metal detectors will pick up bronze ( basicly copper and brass mix)

  26. I bet the Canadian government isn’t nearly as draconian as our own vis a vis the rights of treasure finders…?

  27. indecision is the key to flexibility, and that is why i waited so long to secret my cache

  28. Chris if you have a detecting shop near you i recommend stopping in there i’m sure they have a used one that will work for what your looking for. I bigger the item the better chance you have of finding it with a middle of the road detector. If your looking to go 14″ or more it may be a waste of money. I’m just speaking from my experiences. I’ve had a detector in my hand since i was 8 or so.

    • I picked up a metal detector from radio shack that works pretty well. It was on sale for $50. I can find a penny in about 7 inches of solid ground. I don’t believe the chest is buried but most likely could be covered by leaves or sand/ dirt runoff. Not a bad tool to have in some areas…

  29. If we move with confidence and have been “wise and found the blaze”, then we shouldn’t need a metal detector right? Just my opinion. 🙂

  30. I get stumped on “not far but too far to walk”, since the answer to that is soooo subjective. However, I was thinking that even if too far is 50+ miles away, then that is an hour drive. Why would someone want to start at WWWH if they could just cut to the next part or right to where they thought the blaze was? I guess this is making me think that the “not far” isn’t more than a few miles or a few minutes away by car.

    • uh huh… it comes down to the blaze… and what your interpretation of the blaze is?? i think its mentioned in the poem.. hlawh.. but what the heck is it?

      • Thats where I am stuck at also. In my mind if he left a blaze or marker it would be on a rock, a BIG rock. Thats just about the only thing that wont be affected by nature.

    • I came up with a formula, that put’s not far at 3/4 of a mile or less, and far at 14-16 miles. It seemed like it was better to have some fixed distances, to work from, so far I like it.

        • I have 4 different spots I would like to check out. And the clues at each spot, would easily fit into those distances. I actually came up with those distances, to see if there was a relationship between spots, based on distance I think there is.

    • Whenever I think about “too far to walk” I think of the story about him and and a friend walking 89 miles to Bozeman (Dal recounts the eamil of the story here http://dalneitzel.com/2013/02/11/1251/ ). It’s not an official clue, and it’s not in the book, but he did send the email to Dal, so it’s “fair game” as far as I’m concerned for considering as a clue.

      FWIW my #1 site uses this as a clue, and the distance from WWWH to the blaze is greater than 89 miles.

      • Correction…in the email it was 91 miles. I think I heard the 89 from someone’s modern estimate of the distance.

      • Co Searcher
        I thought about that from the story,too. However, to go 91 miles, that’s almost an hour and a half drive, so why would you want to even start at WWWH if you have the HOB or other clues that are 91 miles away? I’m not saying you are wrong because I was using that as my guide for awhile,too. Just seems like if the clues are so spread out, then to save time just go to the clues that you have figured out closest to the final destination. I was thinking this “distance” was so that you had an opportunity to see more of nature or things that ff wanted to share.
        Perhaps each clue was some special thing/place that ff thought we should enjoy on our quest for the chest and they weren’t all withing walking distance.

        • That is exactly what I did when I went to my #1 spot for my first search. I only went to the clue #8 location (heavy load & Waters high), I never visited my WWWH or HOB. This appears to violate Forrest’s suggestion that we don’t need a map, because I used one to pinpoint clue #8. But I didn’t have to use the map, I could have visited the WWWH and gone the “long way”. If you interpret the clues as specific locations, you don’t necessarily need to visit them.

        • @Oakleygirl, the 20 miles is just to HOB. Remember, we dont actually follow the path in the poem to get to the final location, once we think we know where it is we can go directly to it.

        • Don’t you think that takes part of the fun out of it though, just going right to the blaze? I guess if the clues are close enough, I would want to do it all in order and visit each spot. However, maybe that’s why the people that only got the first two clues right and went past the rest. What if there is a HOB that you were unaware of along the path of “not far but too far to walk”? If you have a predetermined HOB, then you very well could go past the intended one without realizing it. I wonder if you just had the correct WWWH in the first place, if you could follow the other clues by trial and error once you get there? Not the best plan but in theory it could work. 🙂 Thanks!

        • Oakleygirl, that is very true…if any of my clues are wrong, I am absolutely in the wrong place. One advantage of my clue #8 location is that it is very “Fenn-like”, if that’s a word, so I’m quite partial to it. Yes, that probably means I’m wearing blinders, just like most of the posters here..;)
          I don’t think it takes the fun out of the chase, avoiding travel over 100 miles, second guessing myself along the way. Just checking out the last step took a full weekend, and I didn’t even get halfway done.
          Judging by statistical average, my WWWH and HOB are probably completely wrong anyway, so no loss either way. 🙂

    • Just my 2 cents but I think it is 20 miles. Does anyone agree? I have my reason, but like most it is just part of my interpitation.

        • Ok, Einstein, I will give you part of it. A) Related to my favorie Warm Water location, referenced in the book and in FFs blog on OldSantaFe…
          B) fits my “super secret” poem interetation. (doesnt everyone have one of these) lol.

        • Dave
          So do you think all the clues are withing the 20 mile distance you came up with? Just curious. I can’t imagine how I would begin to get an exact distance at this point. Or does the 20 miles just get you to HOB? Sorry, I’m not trying to be too nosy!!

  31. well since no one asked me what are the double meanings i think i found in stanza one i will just say it. you can thank me later

    the first meaning is

    going in alone and courageous to a cemetery

    the second meaning is

    going in alone, meaning FF went in first trip into the area without the chest

    the second trip he went in with the chest and hid it

      • DT- I was abandoned in a cemetery once, no bones about it. Yeah, gave me a real sinking feeling. Situation was grave, give me chills. Wish I was dead. My HEAD like STONE man. I’ve buried those thoughts. Really got stiffed that day. Life goes on.

        • Sorry, but I don’t understand a difference between a graveyard, cemetery or burial ground. In my opinion, they would all be the same thing.

    • keep in mind that i think this has 2 meanings which are both true

      one meaning is talking about going into the cemetery, but the chest is not hidden in a cemetery. think about it, both things can be true,

      not talking about walking through a cemetery to get to the chest. it doesnt have to do with FF physically hiding the chest,

      • Chris, I’m confused here. Reading your comments, then what value does the cemetery have in your hunt? This seems to go nowhere, at least to me. And, why do you think that the first stanza is even about a cemetery clue at all?.

        • i think it is about a cemetery because of the words ‘alone’ and ‘bold’, in the book FF talks about going in alone and it took a lot of courage to go in there. if you dont see the value i suppose its because i have a line that i feel comfortable explaining things up to that line and i dont want to go over that line.

      • Chris Yates – Why would you need to be “bold” or courageous to go into a cemetery? Nothing in a cemetery is going to get you? Is it? FF would not be “bold” to enter a place like that. You are referring to him needing to be “bold”, aren’t you?

      • To me it means no one has gone there. Fenn has been many places where no one has been for thousands of years. Unless you don’t believe the hints “of riches new and old.”

    • Hmm….I don’t see it. Why would one need to be courageous to go into a cemetery? Respectful, yes, but brave? The only people who fear cemeteries are those that believe in mysticism. I don’t see Forrest as that kind of a person, so I don’t see him associating bravery and a cemetery in a clue. IMHO.
      To further the discussion, “bold” in my view just implies the choice to act, to make a decision and stick with it to the end, as Forrest did when he hid the gold.

      • I think “BOLD” means for example, “fist-sized gold nugget, plus all the other gold, jewels and coins, which are all both “Old & New”.

  32. Been offline for a bit and wanted to thank Dal, Charlie C, germanguy, Stu, and azuredeb for your advice regarding Flywater. Looking at flights now-needed that help moving on from the Flywater theory and you did just that!

  33. Oakleygirl it’s an interesting scenario, difficult but not impossible. Maybe that was another reason why it took so long to hide it.

  34. Almost any E.M.T. will suggest that you take someone with you if something happens two is better than one Alone means if something does happen they prob. won’t find you for a long time Just my opinion .

  35. @ALL,

    Has anyone counted how many errors are in the book “Thrill of the Chase” … just asking? Is there any at all? Lets post all what has been found in error only.

      • AZ and Gey-
        That would be my question too..I know for certain that some of the errors were created on purpose by Forrest..Not unlike the misspellings on his bells. Why? I think only because he’s having fun breaking the rules. He often says- “Am I the only guy that likes to bump my wheels on the curb?”
        There are what appear to be punctuation errors in the book that I know he made on purpose.

        • Dal, out in the woods searching at one our spots we came across an old set of wheels that looked like they came off of an antique toy. They semed out of place in the spot we found ’em. I wonder if they are f’s old wheels?

  36. As to those following the Norse mythos –

    ” your effort will be worth the cold ” – biFrost
    ” If you are brave” ” go in peace ” – Frey

  37. thank you everyone for all the feedback on metal detectors. my last search convinced me that a metal detector could prove invaluable on my next search. for everyone that says you wont need a MD, i agree, but i disagree at the same time. i understanding the reasoning behind that, and things FF has said which supports that logic. i think it is best though to err on the side of caution. the truth is we dont know if someone, since the chest was hid, has been to that specific spot ever. it is an unknown how obvious it will be when one gets to this spot, and i think it is best treated as an unknown. we don’t know for sure if it will be hidden in plain sight so to speak. see all it takes is a certain amount of ‘hiding’ it to greatly increase the difficulty… when i was searching, the physical wear and tear began to takes it toll and i couldnt physically search every place there was a pile of sticks partially embedded in the ground or where there appeared to be a mound of soft earth. i tried to at first but soon realized it was an impossible task, and most times you remove the sticks or dig up some earth and underneath is something solid so now it takes a lot more work to ascertain that it is a hard piece of buried wood or frozen ice under the ground. with a metal detector i can determine quickly there is no metal there and there is not the physical exertion. even if i got to the chest and i saw it out in the open, i wouldnt regret having had the MD at all, because it would have quickened my search up to that point to where i got to the spot where i see the chest.

    • CY
      I have to respectfully disagree. I think there is no way that the chest is buried, and no need for a metal detector. I don’t think ff has probably ever used one in his life, and it seems to me this would eliminate a lot of folks for the chase, and defeat a lot of his purpose. I for one am never going to go run out and buy a metal detector, until he says it’s buried. He says it’s difficult, yet not impossible. If it was buried, I would consider that to be nearly impossible, unless for the handful of people with metal detectors. I assume the reason you didn’t find anything is because you didn’t find the blaze. If the search took some wear and tear on you it sounds like you didn’t move with confidence…and the fact that you are poking around graveyards after he said it wasn’t in one kinda proves that. On that note, I havn’t found the chest either…just sayin.

      • I would posit that a metal detector could still be useful even if the chest isn’t buried. I am convinced that it is hidden in a rock or wood overhang or crevice along creek walls, accessible only by standing in a 35 degree frigid creek runoff as a vantage point (“worth the cold”). I think poking a metal detector into those kinds of hiding spots could yield the box. As I am not familiar with metal detectors, maybe someone could enlighten me as to why that wouldn’t work.

        Also, looking on the internet, it seems there are “two box” metal detectors that are good for finding objects more than a meter down. Couldn’t one run that along the top side of a creek edge and detect a bronze chest hidden in spaces along the creek…just curious.

        • When I used a 20 year old White MD in a certain national park it went off on a dozen or so rocks. I believe the rocks had iron ore or something similar in them.
          Its not as easy to use as u might think

        • If checking on national lands please check that areas guidelines on using a metal detector before using one. It could be a pretty hefty fine if not legal in that area.

      • awww geeez, the english language. its not that hard really.

        FF has said it is not in a graveyard.

        it is not in a graveyard.

        i was not searching in a graveyard nor will i ever search in a graveyard.

        i know i am taking a risk here with some people in trying to convey a meaning with the english language, however i will try and try again.

        • Well I understand just fine, if you are referring to me. I never understood your explanation of WWWH either, maybe I am just the layman, but where is the chest? I think you are having a hard time choking down your pie, of the humble variety.

        • Hank

          no, you dont understand just fine. you said that i was searching in graveyards. so no you don’t understand.

          question is, did you know that i wasnt searching in graveyards, but you said that intentionally to annoy me …. or are you clumsy and uncaring in the reading of my posts to take a meaning that is clearly not there

          in either case, you are conferring ‘idiot’ status on me, because i would have to be an idiot to search in graveyards when FF has so clearly said it is not in a graveyard.

          if i misunderstood someone and my misunderstanding could be insulting towards another person, well, i wouldn’t say an apology is necessary, but at the least I would acknowledge the misunderstanding.

          your response to me, however, leads me to believe that you just don’t like me for whatever reason, and you want to egg me on and drag me down to a level of name calling, but i am not going to go there.

        • CY
          Please disregard my previous comment, I apologize for letting myself get chippy. Everyone has the right to their own opinion and interpretation, good on ya for getting out there.

        • Hank, thank you

          i apologize for the condescension of my english language comment

        • the tool i’m saving up for is>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a new jeep:). i want to make my hike as short as possible and my get away a cloud of dust!

        • Sorry guys, its a very sad state of affairs when anyone has to post about not going around digging up peoples graves. 🙁 A little common sense goes a long way, right?

      • Even if FF placed it on top of the ground in plain sight, that was over two years ago, and it could be buried by natural debris, such as leaves, sticks, grass, fallen plants and rocks, etc., making it impossible to see without moving whatever is on top of it now. Seems a metal detector would be helpful.

        How do you envision finding the chest in plain sight? In what sort of setting do you expect to see the chest?

        • I had that problem in one spot. Leaves and branches were 2 ft thick. Some spots naturally collect the debris and rather than dig it up and waste time, I would rather check it with a detector and move on. A 42 lb metal chest is no rock. If you know how to use it, it will give you a loud hit on the chest in any conditions.

      • I would tend to agree, “look quickly down” implies to me that it is only observable by a particular vantage point. Perhaps on a ledge or in a depression or even a hole. Probably not a hole persay since a hole could fill with water from rain or melting snow.
        * disclaimer: this only my opinion.

    • We are not limited by the tools we choose to take or not take; MD, bear spray, Dream Books, crossword puzzles, notebooks with poetry, or I-phones. We are limited by how our lives have led us to organize information up to this point. It seems we may need to ” break on through to the other side”. The poem is vast like the world; immense like living.

  38. Good lord where does the list end for items needed ? I’ll need a Sherpa and a mule before this things over. I thought all we needed was the poem? (lol)

    • JJ- I am ordering a tiny RC military issued drone with an hd camera. I’ll be able to search one spot then catch the jet stream and head east to my next spot a few hundred miles away on the same charge…:)

    • what about tools?. I thot I saw somewhere that ff indicated you would knot need any tools to recover? find? locate? the treasure. Anyone have any thots or recollection of the need or know need for tools?…otherthanalltheseinternetdevices.

    • Ok Dal, she has had her time in the corner. Please let her back in now 🙂

    • Truthfully,my first thought was this has to be a self-parody of a Nancy Drew novel. Serious here.

    • This chase makes you crazy. In the end, there will be no posters here because we’re all insane.

      • You can speak for yourself. Some of us are true believers….lol

  39. I’m curious to know if there is anyone else who had found the chapter, “Important Literature” to be ‘key’ in matching hints to clues. I have made several connections but still, a couple elude me. I’m wondering if any like minded searcher would entertain the thought of trading some ideas. I believe as long as we keep to ourselves our interpretations of clues that our locations will remain safe. Anyone game? If you have to ask what I’m talking about, we’re probably on a different chase and I wish you luck but I’m looking for someone who this strikes a chord for. Goofy, I believe we are like minded here but I could be wrong. Anyone else care to play this game?

      • Clinger,
        Email me at stuparadise@gmail if ya want to talk. I’d be happy to share what I know. Maybe we can fill in some blanks for each other.

    • @Stu
      Sorry for not replying sooner, I just saw your comment…….I do agree with you.

      I actually find the whole book odd and out of character. He said he wrote it in six weeks, and that it wrote itself……..Everything else I can find that Fenn has done is meticulous in nature. He had a casting foundry where extreme attention to detail is vital; his excavation of San Lazaro, his other books, his art shows, his gallery, and sloppy pilots usually don’t live long. Read his recent letter to the archeologists or the comment he had (posted here) for the government about the fellow that got arrested for digging. He does use old school colloquial expressions (so do I) that some don’t understand, but he is precise, blunt, and to the point (I’ve been accused of the same things). This book is completely out of character as far as I can find; the inaccuracies, wrong references, wrong quotes, talking in circles, contradicting himself, it goes on and on. It is quite obvious, and in my opinion intentional.

      When he speaks before the camera or a crowd he is very comfortable talking about anything else, Vietnam, San Lazaro, flying, bad government, etc.; but when he talks about the treasure his demeanor changes completely; which I find odd for a horse trader like Fenn…….

      I don’t know what it means……I do think it was on purpose. Fenn obviously wanted to be famous, but I wonder if he is surprised at the level of scrutiny he is receiving.

      • It is all about My War and Me written years before and his near death experience that he experienced again after being diagnosed with cancer. He knew where the chest would go way before writing the book. ΩΩ

        • Einstein, you are making me nervous again. I know we have gone back and forth a little on our spots, but you said “heavy loads” was very obvious for you, right? Any other little hints you want to give to ease my angst? My 9 clues begin with WWWH and end with looking down at the blaze. Nothing outside those lines is relevant to my search. And, those 9 clues are each necessary steps you must follow to bring you right to the chest. Same or different?

      • That’s an interesting observation Goof-
        As I consider what you wrote I agree with what you are saying.
        You are certainly correct in that Forrest’s history is that of a meticulous and careful individual and collector.

        Another out of character aspect of this hunt that intrigues me is the shortage of photos of the chest with all it’s goodies..There are one or two photos of it with just coins and nuggets but where is the photo of it loaded up with jewels and bracelets and rings?

        Forrest has boxes of photos and his collection is catalogued like a museum. He keeps detailed records on everything…yet he claims not to have a detailed list of what is in that chest and there does not appear to be a photo of it. Why is that?

        • Dal,

          Could it be a matter of not what’s in the chest, but rather what you think is in it?

        • German-
          “It’s not who you are but who they think you are.”
          Maybe …but he has given us a list of some things right in his book..but no photos of those things…
          I do not doubt that those things are in the chest..nor am I suggesting that the chest is not out there…I am a true believer in the existence of the chest and treasure…but I am befuddled by the lack of documentation…It’s just unlike him..as Goof pointed out.

        • Dal & germanguy et al – On the last video with Lorene Mills, did you guys catch where FF said the treasure chest is Flemish? Flemish – as in Dutch? I looked at Ebay & Flemish boxes are very ornate, many with legs. Is the picture of the chest associated with the book even the correct chest?

        • @Dal
          Everything about this treasure is odd……Like you said, he has multiple photos and detailed descriptions of everything. He knows exactly what is in that box.

          Look at his letter to the government (posted here); he uses a fairly complicated math equation to make his point…..That is how he actually thinks…..He is not a simple minded bumbling old guy that can’t keep things straight in his head.

          Everything about this book and treasure is a paradox….nothing is as it seems. All the inaccuracies, mistakes, and double talk mean something.

          I don’t know what it means…….but I do think it should be taken into consideration.

        • @Dal
          What I mean by paradox for example is “no paddle up your creek”…..which way do you go….up or down stream?

          Another example; if the next clue Fenn gives is “I’m a compulsive liar”…….so then is that statement a lie……which would mean he tells the truth.

          Nothing makes sense and is totally out of character…….which is intended.

          To me it is so obvious and there is so much of it, if we don’t take that into consideration and figure out what is going on we will be chasing our tails forever.

          Do you think I’m making something out of nothing?

        • Maybe not seeing a pictures of the full treasure is part of the surprise. I think it’s an added bonus that whoever finds the chest gets to see the full contents first. We all know what the box looks like and have the clues to find it… he needs to keep some suspense left for us seekers! Just my thoughts.

        • Once I established my WWWH, I instantly found an understory that I believe is the point of the whole hunt. If he just came out and said it, everyone would be skeptical and possibly disinterested. He has crafted a romantic invitation to a party in a yellow-jacket’s nest. But don’t listen to me, keep looking in the water for trout.

        • Dal- Regarding the antique dragon coat bracelet with 254 rubies, 6 emeralds, 2 sapphires and numerous diamonds, it would be neat to actually see it. You have written that an item is only worth what someone is willing to pay or it, but it would be interesting to actually judge for oneself a rough value and the beauty of the item.
          The next time you see or talk with Forrest would you ask for a picture and history of the bracelet and post it on your blog? Thanks Don

          • Don-
            I’ve asked but so far Forrest has not released any photos beyond what we have already seen. I assume there is a simple reason for this. I am inquisitive but I certainly do not harp on Forrest. If he says “no” to me I know what that means.

      • Is it possible that he’s making a statement with all the errors/mistakes letting ppl know it’s ok to make mistakes ? You learn from them and move on, you’ll be rewarded on down the road.

  40. Einstein was talking on here previously about “Tarry Scant” being “North side of the canyon” – is there logic behind that? #missing something

    • I have a bunch of thoughts on tarry scant and this was one of them. South side of canyons in the Rocky Mountains are typically filled with pines (more sap/pitch on that side). Just a thought.

    • I have always thought of tarry scant as a place that contains a little tar, soot or other black substance after burning — as one of the definitions of tarry is 1. any of various dark viscid substances obtained by the destructive distillation of organic matter such as coal, wood, or peat
      2. another name for coal tar

    • Hmm… Tarry Scant -I think some people have referenced this – similair to the reference he gives on what could also be a Butterfly in his book…

    • Should you be caught or killed the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions…….Good Luck Einstein

    • Have fun, good luck, and we’ll be looking forward to a full report when you return!

      • Flying through Las Vegas. Maybe I should gamble a bit or is this whole chase I am on a big gamble 🙂

        • Mclaren around is a nightmare. I hope you get there several hours before your next flight because it has some of the worst gate systems in the usa imo.

        • I’ve got a bill here in front of me for $1447 to pay! “I gambled & lost!”

    • Good luck Einstein.

      A zizzer zazzer zuzz as you can plainly see…Yes, I think I see the reference in that one. But what about the story of The Lorax…is there any connection or meaning that relates to your whole search area?

      • It all started back. Such a long, long time back. Way back in the days when the grass was still green, and the pond was still wet, and the clouds were still clean, and the song of the Swomee swans rang out in space. One morning I came to this glorious place.
        why so secretive Einstein? You did show part of your hand talking to ghost.
        Then you stated your not sure what your supposed to do when you get there, are you just playing us. Your supposed to be going in confidence.
        You see Im moving with confidence to the spot, there is a chance its not the right spot but I will find that out when I get there, and I may just have the joker.

        • And will I succeed? Yes indeed, yes indeed! Ninety-eight and three-quarters percent guaranteed!

      • Is that coyote J. “F”ox, whats the J stand for? Sometimes the fox has to dress like the coyote.

  41. Willing to bet the 500 ft rule will apply this weekend again. You may be the one that solved the first part of the poem so don’t forget to watch your step AND keep your chin up!

  42. If you like FF’s words of wisdom about the meaning of life which he expressed in “The Thrill of the Chase,” especially in the chapter “My War For Me,” then you will probably also like the movie “Cloud Atlas” that came out last year. It stars Tom Hanks, Halle Berry, Hugh Grant, and others. It’s almost three hours long, but very entertaining and worth it. I actually had to watch it twice to process it all. I would enjoy watching it again. Are there clues in it? Comment if you think so?

    • No Josh, havent seen nor read it. Im having enough trouble with all the clues in the chase book to throw in yet another book! 🙂

  43. Raven i think your spot on with the bracelet comment. The man has been around the block a few times i think it’s pretty slick how he just slides it in there. You have to respect the man for thinking about the hunters.

  44. I would love to hear interpretations of the meaning behind the double Omega symbols at the end of the book. 24th letter of the alphabet, 24 line to the poem, any thoughts?…

  45. Dal, is someone other than Forrest reading his email if anyone is reading it at all? I know he is writing, I just wondering if its possible to reach him without someone else reading the email? He has stated his family is looking for it too. Kind of a difficult situation…

        • I have spoken to Forrest in the past, and confirmed via email, that he reads his own email. No one else does. I guess he wants to make sure that anyone revealing clues to him are not intercepted by someone else.

          • Lorax

            I was responding to azuredeb inquiry as to fenn getting email privately.

        • At the beginning of this page you state your home and goofy old guy asks how was your search, and all you respond with is gigidy gig, what does that mean? is it german or something? im guessing you didn’t find the treasure chest Forrest Fenn hid in the mountains north of Santa Fe. Trying to avoid any confusion here now.

          • I understand what you are referring to now, it’s just that you responded under someone else’s comment that I was responding to and not the one at the very top of the page I had made. The comment I made at the top was in regards to being “home”, meaning home on the blog (my home away from home), not from a search. Glad we could straighten out this confusion.

        • Lorax,

          I’m not sure it’s the same germanguy because he now has et al added to his name. It seems he’s ignoring your question so it may be someone playing games with you. I also was under the impression that germanguy was searching this weekend and was waiting for his answer but I don’t think an answer is coming.

          just my opinion of course.

          jdh

          • Wrong JDH. The “et al” means and others. I changed my nick to include “others”. I am still in search mode. Have only partially covered my search area. Will post when I am ready.

        • Lorax – I can tell you what germanguy et al meant when he said gigidy gig. It’s part of a child’s rhyme. J sound as j in jello.

          To market, to market to buy a fat pig.
          Homeagain, home again jigity-jig.

    • Azuredeb-
      No one else reads his email. He has three email addresses that I am aware of and all go directly to his laptop where he..and he alone reads them.

      I am aware that he said his grandsons might be looking for the treasure. I don’t recall that he thought anyone else might be looking in his family. Although I am aware that he encourage Crayton and Terri to look. But I don’t believe they have.

  46. Anyone have any thoughts on why we see the word cold after we supposedly already found the treasure?

    • I don’t think it matters, particularly that it appears after we find the chest, because it appears before we find the chest too. The opposite of warm water.

    • A 20lb chunk of bronze will feel cold in your hands while you carry it out.

    • Azure,
      I think cold does matter. It does come after someone has supposedly found the chest, but he says hear me ALL and listen good. Maybe he wants to send a message big enough for the whole world to hear. Maybe we should be looking for a deeper meaning of why he hid the chest.

      • i think there is more to the poem and book than what I have seen posted or deciphered here.

        • Lorax: I think you are 100% correct in that assessment.

          Take for example “not far, but too far to walk”.

          Ask a child, that you taking to a candy store that is fifty away, how far it is?

          Guarantee you the answer will be “too far to walk” and he/she will take off at a run!!!

          so your “not far” is not the same as their “not far”.

          just one opinion……………..

        • Lorax: I think you are 100% correct in that assessment.

          Take for example “not far, but too far to walk”.

          Ask a child, that you taking to a candy store that is fifty away, how far it is?

          Guarantee you the answer will be “too far to walk” and he/she will take off at a run!!!

          so your “not far” is not the same as their “not far”.

          just one opinion………………

    • Regarding “cold” after supposedly already finding the treasure…I posted some of this earlier today, not sure you read it though… If you look quickly down from the “Blaze”, the chest should be there, right? “Your quest to cease… “Quickly” sounds to me that you are there at the spot. I also am having difficulty with the “Wise” part. That could entail a lot of research in my estimation! But then, the poem goes on and says to “Hear him and listen good”. That takes me to a completely different location, but still within the same general area, and miles away. Then it says “Your effort will be worth the cold (that must mean you have to get in cold water and head towards some trees in my eyes… I thought my quest cease back at the Blaze! Why is it so far from the Blaze? This is confusing to me since we are being told to follow the clues in order to find the chest. I’m exhausted.
      Are you as confused as I am?

      • not to add to your confusion NotSoWise but have you also considered why you should look down “quickly”? it may be part of the “once you find the chest, take it and run” or, perhaps, you are moving when you pass the blaze…

    • azuredeb,

      regarding the word cold after having the chest..

      I’m sure there’s a deeper meaning to the stanza which I have been unable to figure out, but on the surface I see him saying something like “if you’re willing to get off your couch and out of your warm home, be courageous enough to leave the comfort and safety of your home and get in the hunt and out in nature, it will be worth it.”

      And if you’re lucky enough to have your hands in the chest (I believe it’s lined with wood) the gold is yours.

      It takes a bit of courage to get in this hunt and I think he’s encouraging everyone to give it a shot.

      Like I said, I think there’s gotta be a lot more to it, but for now that’s all I get out of it.

      jdh

      • If you have the chest, then why would the “cold” be important? Think.

        • Germanguy…I have a chest and a cold in it now. It may have gotten it during my last search. It was all I found, and this is why I’m taking FennQuil…I mean NyQuil. lol

        • Germanguy et al, maybe “cold” is nothing more than (1) it’s cold in the mountains and (2) it rhymes with gold…kinda agree with JDH on this one

  47. People, please be careful about using metal detectors. Check with blm in area you may be using them to see if its legal. Also in most national forrests its illegal to dig at all. Is this really worth fines or ending up under arrest on federal charges?

    • actually, there is no law against swinging a metal detector on public land…you just cannot pick up anything you find…swing all day long-as long as you don’t dig, the rangers may confront you-but you just tell them your spouse lost their wedding ring…

  48. with so many thinking it’s buried, not buried, in a cave, underwater, etc…etc…etc… sounds like it may be down a “well” of somekind. That would be below Brown, if your Brown was Earth…just a thought

  49. I’ve read somewhere that Forrest has said “Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead”

    My wife uses quotes a lot in the classroom (3rd grade) and was telling me about some of them recently and one she mentioned was by Ben Franklin.. Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead” Hmmmm…I don’t know if it means anything or not but it sure stuck out when she said it.

    • At the moment I am in the closing arguments of a (divorce) I can keep a secret……

    • @cojfox

      I am assuming you are in Colorado. I must say that you have unlocked the poem for me. Now all I can say that the end is located in New Mexico. As I looked at the poem …if it is a poem …but to what degree I asked myself. Then in mid 80’s while Fenn was laughing on the way to his car with his wife it hit me for I was there once before and I have laughed with error. No mistake this time because they were brave and in the wood. Thank you. Just saying from an Indian scout and a Saint.

    • “Three Can Keep a Secret If Two Are Dead” is also a book about the Hell’s Angels.

  50. It just occurred to me. Hank and I have been searching the same location. I struck out. Good luck, Hank.

    • Herm…not so sure about that, but if so, I am O fer as well. I am going back to the drawing board for sure. Speaking of…I just re-watched the HDNet vid, does anyone know when that was made? The one with Jennifer London? Interesting things: 1) This is where he says he “walked back to his car smiling” after he put it in his secret, private place. Later in the interview he says around the 10:30 mark that the secret is to think, analyze…but then he says “you just can’t get out of your car, walk over to the woods, and walk to it.” Is this ff double talk? Did he drive to it, or close to it, but all the clues lead you on a much longer journey to get to the same place? Why is it too far to walk if he walked back to his car? Did he walk back to his car parked in the airport parking lot? I think someone mentioned earlier, but I agree that maybe each clue is a different way to “analyze”. One might be a riddle, one might be a reference to literature, one might be referencing native american history, or art history…it could be nine different ways to analyze. I have fallen down the brown hole of over thinking…aplologies once again to CY from earlier…this thing gets me all flapped up sometimes!

      • Hank
        I’ve been thinking about that too. He did say bring a sandwich, so maybe it was a bit of a hike and he wasn’t able to park right next to it or even close by, but needed to walk a ways to get there.

        • or maybe you need to be there at lunchtime…hmmm, what’s high in the sky at mid-day?

      • Or, perhaps FF drove to it (not that he would admit it, nor should he). There are lots of gates for Forest Service Use Only. Public is not permitted beyond.

        However, someone “bending” the rules could open it (if unlocked) or drive around it…OK as long as you don’t get caught in a “weak” position.

        Searcher could identify what they thought was the “Blaze” and drive through as Forest
        might have and get to that blaze.

        However, if searcher had followed the Poem, in sequence, they would be able to find the “true blaze” that the Poem references!!

        What do you think, Germanguy Et Al??………………

        iust one dummy’s opinion

        • The true blaze…ahh yes. I saw a blaze last time out and thought maybe I was being lead to yet another level of the poem but now I do believe that relaxing hike was well worth the time.

  51. I just returned last night from my first thrill of the chase hunt. The treasure was not found by us. My son and I had two days of fun searching before our trip was cut short. A word of caution for people traveling through Yellowstone at night, if an oncoming car doesn’t dim their headlights, slow way down before going by them. I say this because we slowed down to 35 mph as we passed just such a car. That was when we found out they were stopped beside a heard of buffalo in the road. We didn’t see anything before the impact; we hit one buffalo head on. It was a good thing we were in a pick up. The truck is a mess, still in Bozeman for repairs. A whole new front clip will be needed to fix it. No people were hurt. Maybe I’ll be able to go back in a month, get my truck, and continue the hunt. My first choice of to search. WWWH, Hebgen Lake. Home of brown for me was Wade Lake, home of the largest Brown Trout caught in Montana. We searched the area where the creek from Wade Lake runs into the Madison River and up stream some. We were never able to find a blaze. We did have lots of fun searching. We made it up to Old Faithful, and went down the Firehole River too.

    • OH Rick, sorry to hear about the accident. 🙁 Glad to hear you and your soon are OK though and that you had a good time searching in some of the most beautiful country around. We’ll be passing through Yellowstone on our vacation and will be sure to watch out for the buffalo!

    • I hate to be the guy that asks the question, but we are all wondering… Did you kill the buffalo?

      • Once when my hubby was in job corps on a game refuge in oklahoma, the camp bus hit a bison and killed it. They loaded it on the bus took it back to the center and had a barbeque. lol. That was in thev 70s before you all get upset. Bet you theres some rangers having bison tonight if it died.

        • Yes, we are buffalo killers. The rangers pulled him off to the side of the road before we left. This was last week Wednesday night. Thursday we got a ride to Bozeman and rented a truck and was back in the park Friday for one more day of exploring, before heading back home.

    • runamuckrick,

      Glad to hear you and son were not hurt. I drove thru last Friday morning and was stopped to allow a herd to cross the road. If they do that when it’s dark it would be so easy to not be aware of them and have an accident. Being in a national park, were you cited for anything?

      At least you got to search a spot and have some fun before getting “up close and personal”.

      Thanks for the word of warning.

      jdh

    • runamuckrick,
      I had a car flashing brights on & off at me. I didn’t have my brights on but figured out why after I passed him. There were deer on the road and I was being given a sign. It’s good to pay attention to those things…I slowed down, so it may have saved my life!

  52. Email? I have emailed Forrest, attached pictures, and even sent hand written letters. (Remember those) I sent him some facts, but not hard enough to give my complete site away to someone else. Only Forrest would understand my descriptions. I received no response. That was understandable. I mean if you have your hand on the cookie jar……. well

  53. cojfox says

    “I’ve read somewhere that Forrest has said “Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead”
    …………….

    Godspeed ye weary searchers and sail carefully toward the sayings which follow these words. Thar be dangerous treasure secrets revealed here and they be one pirates opinion and nothing more, savvy?

    this saying that F mentions can easily be taken simply as ‘dead men tell no tales’, aye, but this is only scratching the surface. F smiles within himself when says things like these as he realizes the deeper meaning will be lost on almost everyone. as it relates to the search, this saying is a sly reference to the understanding of stanza #1 and hearkens back to my previous posts on this thread relating to a cemetery

    As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold
    I can keep my secret where
    And hint of riches new and old

    going alone and bold, into the cemetery, this where is kept, the secret hint of riches old

    going in to the tarry scant with marvel gaze, this is where is kept, the secret hint of riches new

    avast ye mateys and consider this a mere shot across the bow. reckon it hornswaggle and i will have ye swab the deck or walk the plank for mutiny.

    • Chris
      I understand what you’re saying and I must agree with you now that I have seen things in a new light. It’s interesting to see how you put that together. Very cool!

  54. Stu and others… Do you believe the story of his ‘teen age’ brother flying an airplane, llanding on the lake and could not take off from the lake? I am begining to doubt it.

  55. here is some info I found…..Many pilots sweat the approach and landing to an unimproved, high mountain airstrip and are gratified by a safe arrival. But how much thought has been given to departing that grass or dirt strip at 7000 feet elevation with high terrain lurking in all quadrants? Experienced mountain pilots treat takeoff and departure from high elevation unimproved airstrips as the most critical phase of flight.

        • He goes musstag just like i doubt f was thinking about double jeopardy not counting in a dictatorship back in jr high. F goes on to say that was when he first started mistrusting govt (Ref: pg. 26)The double jeopardy i can see but the rest of it has to relate to a later time in his life. Just my opinion though.

  56. Did Einstein say he was renting a car out of Vegas, or flying out of Las Vegas?

  57. I think Chris Yates and Pooka are on the right path in looking at and breaking down the structure of the poem. I have my own interpretation of how the stanzas of the poem are structured which I’ll explain below, but first my take on the overall approach. The poem, the stories in the book, the treasure hunt, and FF’s philosophy on the meaning of life and death are all interwoven into a complex web and to find the treasure, you need to understand the relationships between all of them. FF says that all you need to find the treasure are the 9 clues in the poem. When the treasure is found I’m sure it will be apparent that the poem does lead to the treasure, but the odds of finding it by just reading the poem are probably similar to winning the lottery by picking 9 numbers.
    M. Mitchell Waldrop explains linear and non-linear systems in his book “Complexity”:
    “Systems where the whole is equal to the sum of the parts are called linear systems. Each component is independent of the others.
    Systems where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts are called non-linear systems. Each component may influence other components. A non-linear system is a vast web of incentives and constraints and connections. The slightest change in one part causes tremors everywhere else.”
    Native American cultures, which are well understood by FF, are non-linear in their language, religion, symbols, and customs. Their languages have no distinction between states of time and space. Remember the Great Literature story when FF threw the book in the trash on top of Time magazine? That’s one of many clues in the book. Another clue is the multiple use of circle symbolism in the book. A circle is non-linear, has no beginning and no end. A rainbow is actually a circle interrupted by the horizon. The TS Eliot poem of ending your exploration where you began is another example.
    So he has woven a complex web for us to navigate and stringing one clue after another in a linear relationship will not solve it. So the way I see that he structured the poem is that the odd stanzas (1,3 and 5) are about his eventual death and why he left the treasure after his finding the meaning of the French soldier’s grave marker. Stanzas 1,3,5:
    1. As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold,
    I can keep my secret where,
    And hint of riches new and old.
    3. From there it’s no place for the meek,
    The end is ever drawing nigh;
    There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
    Just heavy loads and water high.
    5. So why is it that I must go
    And leave my trove for all to seek?
    The answers I already know,
    I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak
    He is going alone to his grave with his secret. It’s no place for the meek. There is no escaping it. Heavy loads and water high is the heavy load that he carried after finding the soldier’s grave by the waterfall. Why did he leave the treasure? The answer came when he realized the meaning of the soldier’s grave inscription: “When this realization hit me, at last I knew if I cannot enrich those with whom I interact each day and cause them to be better for my having passed their view, then I have wasted my turn. That I succeed in this endeavor is not as important as it is for me to make a solid try. For if the try is sincere I have succeeded in whatever failure resulted….So now, at least for me I know. And if no one should ever think of me when I have passed this vale, it will be of no consequence, for I have finally found my way and am peace with all of it.”
    Stanzas 2,4,6 are actual instructions and clues to find the treasure. The stories in the book are full of clues, many of which are confirmation of the correct interpretation and some of which won’t be understood as a clue until you see the correct site. In typical non-linear fashion, all clues have multiple correct solutions, meanings, or uses. Anagrams are also part of the solution. It’s a complex web of relationships so it won’t be easy, but think non-linear. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it!

    • very interesting jack.. and somehow your explanation was easier to follow than chris’s .. no offense chris :).. idk.. if this puzzle/poem requires that type of philosophical thought i’m in way over my head.. the only case i could make against this is, the book is supposedly not needed and you are relying heavily on it’s stories..

    • Jack,
      I have been seperating the stanzas in this way also and believe you are correct. I have struggled with several clues and hints to clues until recently. Some of these can also be found in the blog stories. Many are outlandish in their attempt to call attention to themselves but some people refuse to see them as clues still. There is a key of sorts in one chapter in particular that is helpful and maddening at the same time because it is also filled with clues of a different nature. Thanks for putting a name to it. I still, however, believe that the one true solution among many possibles, involves using the entire poem in the end with 2,4 & 6 being directions and 1, 3 & 5 being confirmations.

      • Stu
        I agree. I don’t mean to ignore the poem as a whole. There are clues in 1,3,5 also. FF says don’t change my poem. I just think breaking it down is a way to analyze it so that we can get a better grip on what the entire thing is about and see it more clearly.
        BTW, my theory is that 1,3,5 are part of his original poem when he planned on taking the treasure with him to his final resting place. 2,4,6 were changed when his plan changed for hiding the chest. I think the final hiding place is different than the original where he planned to be with the treasure.

        • I jack, i I’m right with you in that thought slso and had given up trying to convince others. In addition to 1 3 & 5 alluding to his end I also believe it alludes to a particular trip he took.

        • It’s all part of one intricate complex web woven by FF. For example, the line, “the answers I already know” has very little meaning unless you read the book. The book, especially “My War For Me”. loads that line with a huge amount of meaning. You need the book and knowledge of FF to make sense of the poem.

        • I should say to understand the poem enough to find the chest. The poem makes sense without the book, but to harvest enough knowledge to actually bring home the treasure, you need to study it and understand it and you need the book to do that.

    • Jack – quite amazing. Have you ever studied the Lue treasure map? It goes along the same lines you are speaking about. Many have said – the solution in the Lue map is simple. But that the maker of the map, added a lot that is not needed – just to confuse a searcher. It’s possible many lines in FF’s poem, are added for effect – or just to complete the cadance or the way it sounds. Could be stansas or just could be lines. Thanks for your posting. Gives me a whole new perspective. I want to know more.

    • Jack, btw, the books in the trash and the Time magazine still eludes me. I’ve lost sleep over this one. As Dr Evil would say, “Throw me a frickin’ bone here”

      • Stu, one minute I’m confident and the next minute I’m fretting over having not understood the true meaning of things and then realizing I must take everything into consideration. There is just so much to absorb and trying to sift through what is a real clue or not has certainly made me lose sleep too.

      • That Time magazine in the trash likely had JD Salinger’s picture on it (I don’t think this ever happened, btw). Don’t know if that helps.

        • The probe,
          I checked, he isn’t. There are other interesting articles in that issue though. I have retread all referenced literature in that chapter. There are connections but my focus lies in the subtle and not so subtle clues that are abundant in that chapter. I believe they are a map to other locations in TTOTC that contain the hints to the poem . Example: two borderline biddies at the cash register line refers to the chapter “No place for Biddies”. This chapter refers to an obvious line in the poem. The clue is repeated in the text. This method is repeated for each line although others are more cleverly disguised.

    • Jack,
      Nicely done my friend…funny you mention the native american philosophy on time…I joke with my friends (who are younger) that I am only a certain age if you believe in linear time…I do not…It is interesting to think about really (off-topic I know) but only living by night and day, and seasons..hmm.. ok back to the clues. I have had a hard time – and spent a lot of time on – piecing together the literature ideas. FF is obviously well read, and quotes a variety of people often, no rhyme or reason to who he quotes really. While I don’t put all my eggs into the “TS Eliot quote as a clue” if you read the entire poem “Little Gidding” (#4 of the Quartets) there is some interesting verbage there, including words that are used in the actual ff poem. It is certainly a parallel with life and death, life as a circuitous path, etc. Warning: If you think ff’s poem is hard to interpret, try working on Eliot’s majors, and there isn’t even a treasure involved…well expanded knowledge and a good stretching of the old noodle I suppose…anyways…Does anyone see a pattern in the Quotes in interviews etc. which ff makes reference too? Think they are clues/hints?

      • Try Young Goodman Brown by Nathaniel Hawthorne it’ll leave you scratching your head wondering if there’s a connection.

  58. Jack i really enjoyed that. I think it’s one of the best solution options yet. Who needs a life coach when you have f.

  59. Just a thought on metal detectors. Besides having to lug it around, although I realize it would primarily be used at “your lucky spot”, if you have a headset on, how you going to hear that rattlesnake you woke up behing you? haha

    • Just get a small pinpointer metal detector whites sales them and garrett has a real good one with a bar down the side you can scan almost anything It will fit right in your pocket is smaller than a flash light and they get good depth for what they are happy hunting

  60. We plan on heading back to our main location this weekend…we found all our clues in sequential order and even a metal omega symbol on our site. It took some thinking “outside the box” to get there. After two trips to this spot, I had to dive back into the book because we got stuck at the blaze. Upon combing thru the chapters slowly, I think I finally know the next step. It’s not as easy as simply looking quickly down. There is more to it and it’s pretty clever of f, if I am right. This is all speculation and I realize that we have more of a chance at being incorrect, but you’ve got to love the anticipation of the search…CHC

    • Good Luck to you – COHighCountry Hope your not in my spot – but if you are – it’s beautiful – have fun.

    • CHC,
      I, too, have gone to my primary location multiple times. I believe FF went to his area many times before he hid his treasure. You can go to a place 10 different times and see ten different things. There is virtually no way you can traverse all the area in your particular spot and firmly eliminate the spot. Again, we can refer back to the 500 foot comment and hope that the culprit did not eliminate his/her spot. Won’t he (I think she) be upset when they find out it was them.

      • Collab DNA.-Very true. It takes a few trips sometimes. We had this trove of clues and were amazed how they all came together then we got stuck at a blaze and found nothing. I got home, thought about what we saw and researched some more. I then felt that I knew exactly where to go on the next visit…only to strike out again. More research, a brand new angle and we’ll be headed back. Exciting, frustrating, tiring, $$$ etc…but fun. We’re excited to go back out. @ intothechase- it is a special spot that seems to represent a few parts of f’s life all in one place, although I’m not sure if it is really the right spot. It almost doesn’t seem connected and personal enough to f, but maybe it is…Good luck to u guys as well~ CHC

  61. I wonder what happened with that one hot blazing minute posted yesterday, must have turned into 2 cold days.

    • Lorax, This was posted by Dal earlier today:

      For those interested in knowing what’s happening on the Stephanie Davis hunt you will have to go to her twitter account. I have placed her on moderation here because of the offensive and outlandish claims she made in spite of requests not to post that kind of nonsense on this blog.

      https://twitter.com/honeywilson10

      • It’s really hard to get back into the hunt when you think someone is going to get it in hot five minutes and you just keep waiting for the ball to drop. I did that today until Dal made the above post. So thank you Dal. We all have to keep on keeping on or for sure we will never get the prize. Best wishes to all.

  62. Humble pie is hard to swallow it usually takes a large glass of cold milk to get it down.

  63. All of us that have gone on a search know all about humble pie for one reason or another. You just have to except you didn’t find the treasure and move on . No body said it was going to be easy . SEARCH SEARCH AND KEEP KEEPIN ON

  64. I haven’t seen very much actual movement on this poem, so I’m going to share some (hopefully) wisdom with you. You can accept it or toss it aside. Your choise.

    The is a saying that goes like this: “All is not as it seems”. Some may remember that saying, but surely it will be unfamiliar to others. I will give you a very simple problem and all you need to do is solve it. Here goes: A farmer had nine sheep, and all but seven died. How many did he have left?
    I will post the solution in my next comment.

    • germanguy et al – How does that “wisdom” help us with the poem? You already told us the answer.

      • Trust me Becky….It’s too hard trying to explain it to you. Others will see the truth behind it and will explain.

      • Very true. We look at words and often we don’t look at the details surrounding them, but they are the most important part of the meaning.

    • No 0. Uh maybe 7. Could be 16. Does this include the sheep that returned from the woods?

    • The answer is 1. The farmer named them all by their number. Only the sheep named seven actually made it. That is a better representation of Fenn’s approach IMHO.

    • germanguy et al wrote:

      “. I will give you a very simple problem and all you need to do is solve it. Here goes: A farmer had nine sheep, and all but seven died. How many did he have left?”

      There are multiiple answers, depending on your intent in the language. Likewise the poem, and keeping all possible solutions in mind is valid, until a complete and coherent solution is derived:

      1) We do no know how many sheep were on his “left”, but you did say all necessary info was given, so
      2) He had nine sheep left, just so happens some of them were dead
      3) He had a sheep named “seven” left (1)
      4) He had two live sheep left

      Then again, like the poem, you may seek additional information.

      astree

      • “Then again, like the poem, you may seek additional information”

        … in any variety of ways … not saying this approach is it, or all of it …

        scary tant

  65. ive always thought it best to have the humble steak and salad before diving right into dessert

  66. OK. If you said seven, your right. If you said two, sorry.

    The point I want to make is this. You have to really think hard about what you read. Take as an example from the poem: “There’ll be no paddle up your creek”.

    What if there is no creek? It says “up YOUR creek”. Not “up THE creek”. So why would YOU assume there is a creek to begin with? To you not see the point here? Every word in this poem is important and should be studied carefully. So in ending, I would need “No paddle up my creek”.
    JMO. TIOLI.

    • Another definition of creek is a narrow winding path, so Germanguy may be correct.

    • A farmer had nine sheep and all, but seven died.

      I’ve pushed around that thought alot too. One that I didn’t throw out was as you said that there is no creek but “your creek” is the road you are on as a modern day Lewis and Clark(that would be Fenn making fun of us) and of course there is no need for a paddle. The other was tied to “take it in the canyon down” where “take it in” was to look canyon down. It was “too far to walk” and you didn’t need a paddle but you could look for miles and miles following the canyon and going up creek. I still think the later plays into my solution in a different way when I get the pieces together.

    • GG, is the ending of the poem so difficult that knowing what you know makes it too tough to find? Your tone speaks like someone who understands the poem much better than I ever will. Is the chest in the snow, on private property or another place too difficult to ever obtain? No answer needed that gives away your spot, I’m just curious and worried this is an impossible quest.

  67. I also see it as describing a mode of transportation and i believe the next line explains that….just heavy loads and water high. Crossing that stream will get your clothes soaking wet and weight you down.

  68. A person can evaluate everything in the poem and come up with all the best solutions for every senario. Its the stuff like too much snow or too cold or a heavy rain storm or a rock fell on my head from breaking loose somewhere because of the spring thaw or a rockslide covered the trail or a hundred different things to worry about . that keep you from reaching the place These are the things I worry about Everyone has his own trials and tribulations to go through that hopefully make him or her a better person for it HAPPY HUNTING AND GOD SPEED.

  69. How did Stephanie Davis make out? I never agreed with much she said, but that is just my personal opinion and mine alone.

  70. johnny’s mother had 3 children. the first was named April, the second was named May, what was the name of the third?

  71. Time to go hunt mice Einstein. Hope to hear that you had to rent a car for the ride home. Good luck!

    • Wow – I though I was crazy for having that thought myself. Guess there are more of us crazies on here!

  72. I don’t think this is anything but I will share anyway in hopes it will inspire someone.

    I was doing some research about faces carved in mountains on a hunch that tarry scant with marvel gaze meant a mountain side when I came across this:
    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/40722/40722-h/40722-h.htm#c2

    I thought the pictures looked similar to the images in the book. Additionally, notice chapter 9: The lost paddle (No paddle up your creek?). Plus, this author’a husband was the editor of the Toledo Tribune (coicidence?) I checked out the names of all the chapters in the series looking for HOB and WWWH but no luck. Maybe someone can do better.

    http://www.series-books.com/mildredwirt/dancarter.html

  73. Hi Dal –
    This is your blog & lord nose I know how it feels to be on moderation. Stephanie – like many – feel so at home here & use this sort of like instant massaging… which cannot be done when on moderation.
    I would like to vote on her appeal tho I know this is no democracy and rules are rules, I feel certain she will never cross the line again. Especially since we have her twitter. I have never tweeted before, am not even sure how, or even know if I want such immediacy. Anyway, please reconsider.

    By Thor’s Hammer…
    May The Shwarts Be With You

    • Babylon-
      I respect your opinion a great deal. But if you mean my good friend Stephanie who has also disappeared from this blog, I too am unhappy with that result. But Stephanie did not go because she was banned. She is certainly not banned. I enjoy her willingness to help and her joyous voice on this blog. Stephanie left because she was crushed by the attack that was levied against her by Stephanie Davis…whom I did ban. Stephanie Davis is aware of how to reach both me and Stephanie via email. She has not asked to be reinstated here. I assume this means she feels she did nothing improper. If I let her back on the blog I would have to expect more of the same. I’m not a glutton for punishment.

      In the meantime if you would like to encourage our friend Stephanie to come back on this blog I ask that you send her an email at tyblossom at aol dot com.

      • Note Sent to Stephanie, offered her some Bubble Gum, Hugs and possibly some tea – here’s hoping!

      • I tried to look around for the details about what brought it all on. I surmised from what I did find that S.D. posted too much about a clue. I did not know that Stephanie 2 feet felt attacked and hurt and of course if this is the case there is no excuse. The place wouldn’t be the same without her quick & generous assurance, bright spirit and exuberance not to mention her depth of knowledge of all things ff.
        I would never presume to be critical of your management here. It must seem daunting at times especially when temperaments warmed by the thrill overflow.

        Be Well & Prosper

  74. germanguy , has given one of the answers to what I believed is one of the riddles in the poem,,,,and now a clue is revealed……this is what I believe will be a turning point for some,,,

    No paddle up your creek,,,,,,is a path / trail. Which path / trail do you follow,,,, the previous clue answers that…. from there it’s no place for the meek,,,,, ( I came to a fork in the road,,,,,and took the path less traveled…..which made all the difference….)

    This is the path I will be following on my trip out,,,,…..

    Maybe some one will soon find this path and put alot of us out of our misery 🙂

  75. I enjoy your posts, Hank. I believe you and I have been searching the same creek. In plain English, my trips were a Major disappointment.

  76. I find it sort of ironic that ff was not a fan of school or homework, and yet here he has us spending hours doing research, analyzing, reading and thinking about his poem. I wonder how ff would approach solving the clues. I think he would actually head out to a WWWH and from there see if he could match/find the other clues. I can almost imagine him sneaking out of the classroom while the other kids sit at their desks!
    (I hope this didn’t post twice, it disappeared)

    • I think there is an explanation for this. If you read my earlier post re: linear vs. non-linear systems and thinking, you may see it. FF is obviously a strong right brain thinker. He probably always was and his association with Native American Culture and the art world strengthened it. Symbols, dreams and pictures make more sense than linear thoughts and relationships. American schools educate and develop linear or left brain thinking. Right brain or non-linear thinkers struggle in that system. I know from personal experience. My daughter could spend hours on intense concentration on an art project, but trying to get her to study history or Spanish for 20 minutes (maybe like Forrest) and her mind went blank. We were worried about her ever being able to graduate high school. BTW she graduated college with honors with a bachelor of fine arts degree and has a masters degree in special ed. So my point is that is what FF means when he says give the poem to your kids and take them with you, before that way of thinking is drilled out of them by the school system.

      • Jack nice write up but I hope noone reads it…lol

        Hope noone reads because then Chasers will really begin to think, “right brain”, and will go back to all my previous comments throughout dal’s blog and click on all the links to videos and pictures I posted.

        Jack please no more wisdom from you…stay on the left side…lol

    • I agree oakleygirl that’s why when I find the treasure I will be sending him a bill for all the time I have put into this. What is the going hourly rate for “treasure chest research” these days? 🙂

      • Dal
        After all of your time, blog, and trips, when you find the treasure you will be at the break even point! Good thing it’s all about the thrill and not the money! 😉

      • Dal, at least you are getting some great free experience here for a future job teaching kindergarten. lol. Keep up the great work! 🙂 CHC

      • Dal, slow down on spending money on the chase at least for a short period of time. One of the points in the book about Forrest’s stories is they didnt spend lots of money to enjoy the time away from home in the woods.

        • azuredeb-

          I don’t spend much on trips…a lot on gas money..some on laundry and food. I sleep outside on public land when I can (thank you public). I jump in a lake once in a while to hose off (there is a shower at the laundry in West Yellowstone and at other small mountain towns where I often hang out). My only serious need when on the road is home baked apple pie at any mom n pop restaurant. Free wifi is available these days in a lot of places.. (even in Dinosaur, CO)

        • Good deal Dal, sounds like us except I need electricity for my oxygen at night so no sleeping outdoors more, breathing is kind of important! Lol

    • Yes
      good luck,
      and if you find the chest leave a clue because I am coming right behind you, I want to know that it is the The End, so I can congratulate you and say you win.
      be safe.

      • You’re off to Great Places!
        Today is your day!
        Your mountain is waiting,
        So… get on your way!

        • When I was a kid a read those Dr Seuss books over and over until the hardcover bindings fell off.

        • Einstein I know your having fun Two chicks and a hippie is a really goood resturant and has great food and a great breakfast Have fun and goodluck

  77. This fury creature of the wild has so many solutions to capture the little critter with no success.

    http://youtu.be/5_rLdv8I3YM

    Are there any Chasers that can relate to this?

    Oh and yes I believe this video has so many clues that relate to the Poem.

    THRILL OF THE CHASE

  78. To Stephanie (tyblossom, girl with the pinkie toenails, veteran treasure hunter with a sense of humor, valued contributor),
    Where are you? I miss you! I look forward to your posts and have missed seeing them…..

    • Say what you mean,
      And mean what you say.
      Forrest doesn’t play this way.

      I have studied what is written,
      And by greed am smitten.

      A shot in the dark,
      I’m off on a lark.

      By writing in verse and rhyme
      It’s only a matter of time,
      I’ll be in his mind.

      Of fly fishing I do not hate,
      Prefer spin casting
      The Garcia Mitchell 308.

      fishing is no trick,
      holding a stick,
      dangling bait and wait.

      Piloting a real plane,
      I never knew.
      but these I did,
      Shoestring, Nobler and Nieuport
      To name a few.

      In writing,
      I seek neither praise nor insult,
      Rather for you to pick up a pen,
      and write like Fenn
      The desired result.

      To retrace the steps
      Of where he left
      The golden chest.

  79. Well, I see from some of you that Forrest answered your emails. Was that recently say the last 2 weeks or so? I know he answers Dal and Stephanie, but what about those of us Forrest doesnt know? What would be a fair waiting time for a responce? I know he is a really busy man.

    • Personally, I messed up my last email to him and hope he Doesn’t answer it! 🙂 I had a thought that it was no where near his designated elevation level – and well, I really messed up – bantering on like an idiot to him – LOL

    • azuredeb-
      I think it depends on the time of day and his occupation at the time your email arrives on his computer. He told me a while ago that he still tries to answer notes from people who are contacting him for the first time. That’s all I think I know about the subject.

    • It is going great. I am not just searching around as I came with confidence and a plan (although I am not ruling anything out as I look around my location). I came here with my special blaze, a backup blaze, and 4 other potential spots. I ruled out the other 4 spots in under 2 hours because I almost experienced cardiac arrest climbing up to them. If Forrest climbed those he is my hero and his treasure can stay there until eternity for all I care. I went to my special blaze, looked down and a marvel gaze came over me. I need a flashlight to make this easier so I am back at my hotel taking a nap (there is more to it than that but not revealed now) – I am in no rush as weird as that might sound. Going back later when my backup blaze (the sunset) occurs – if that does nothing for me I am going to brave the cold tomorrow. Downloading pictures for my trip report now.

      • Wow sounds great! @ Einstein – Unfortunately for me, I wouldn’t even have a camera with me – it’d all just be written down – hope no clouds get in your way – wish I could sing a song to you about marvel gaze!

        • I feel like I should just go for it but I am going to go buy a flashlight (I did not think it would come to that) and a sandwich and watch the sunset tonight. Anyone else would be going furiously at what I found right now. If it is not there or the sunset does not help I have an exit plan :-). It has been an adventure. Watching movies right now – not something you would expect from someone at their spot on the chase 🙂

        • I will be revealing all tomorrow night and who knows, if I don’t find it by tomorrow others might check the location since I only covered a small area as you will see – my search was focused…

        • Dal,

          I have not asked but would you like to post my research and trip report on your blog? It is pretty intense – 10 pages in Word format right now. I really think it belongs here and now where else. Any specifications on the images or is it ok if they are in the Word document?

          • Einstein-
            Absolutely. Love to….
            Not a problem with posting something long. I think the images might work but if the blog pages are a different size than your layout the pics may end up in weird places. But I can try it out and see.
            email me.

      • Stein!
        Why all the dilly dally? You sound like you are onto something…I mean I enjoy a good sunset like anybody else, but dang have you cast a gaze on the trove? Grab that thing and peace out…in peace of course…put us out of our misery! By the way did you say you were standing on your blaze? Eat a sandwich and go get that thing! And, it sounds like it is fairly easy to come and go/close by from a Motel?? Hmm…well good luck out there…

        • Hank,
          I’m looking for a new direction too! I am 99% sure you and I have been nosing around the same creek. No ticket to paradise. Beautiful scenery, but I’m guessing we are both at the end of the line and out of steam. To me the toughest part is knowing the home of Brown. Until someone finds the chest, it is only theory. I have worked on this so hard, my brain hurts. I get the tree phone booths and other esoteric “secret hints” including Irony, but I am fundamentally missing something.

      • I am very interested in your search as I think we may be looking in similar spots. Good luck to you. Someone needs to put me out of my misery!

  80. Don’t worry Little Sparrow. Forrest is very cool and is very busy. I have emailed him a number of times and have not usually gotten a response. Can you imagine what he has on his plate?

    • @ Herman 1 – Thank you and YES I can imagine that he is up to his eyebrows in emails and other tasks. Ever since Dal stated that FF was going to do some writing, I have decided to back off on my emails to him, I think I may have sent 3-4, and he is true to his nature and will respond back at least once to original emails! Although, I would have just enjoyed sending him some of my thoughts as a friend and not a treasure hunter, we haven’t met, but I like many others feel he has a very endearing personality and I would enjoy just having him for a friend.

  81. If a farmer buries his stash of money he will not bury it somewhere in the north 40 acreage. He will bury it close to his house where he can keep an eye on it. Even though Forrest has set the chest out for anyone to find, I think Forrest believes he retains ownership of the chest until found. This is why I assume the chest is located within a reasonable distance from his house. This is on the speculation there is a chest.

  82. Hanks says,

    “…but then he says “you just can’t get out of your car, walk over to the woods, and walk to it.” Is this ff double talk? Did he drive to it, or close to it, but all the clues lead you on a much longer journey to get to the same place? “
    ……………………..

    I don’t believe this particular quote is ff doubletalk. If we are going to bring FF statements into play, then we have to try to separate the wheat from the chaff.

    Let me bring up an example of one I believe to be misleading ….”all you need is the poem” … I will quote Jack here who brought up a good point I totally agree with.

    …..Jack says, “FF says that all you need to find the treasure are the 9 clues in the poem. When the treasure is found I’m sure it will be apparent that the poem does lead to the treasure, but the odds of finding it by just reading the poem are probably similar to winning the lottery by picking 9 numbers.”…….

    This is an example of FF saying something that is maybe … could be …. true, but is not a very accurate representation of the truth and that is why he says it. FF has made another statement in this regard, advising that we should read the poem, read the book, then read the poem, then read the book again. This statement is more revealing and closer to the truth. Finding the correct path on the Chase is going to be a multi-dimensional and multi faceted thing
    .
    “you just can’t get out of your car, walk over to the woods, and walk to it.”

    This statement hides a huge clue to finding the treasure, I believe, but it would be difficult to see because FF has laid down so much chaff. So for what it’s worth, I think this isn’t FF doubletalk but a very revealing insight. “As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold” …. Went in first alone to a certain area without the chest, then went back in with the chest to the spot, and hid it. this has something to do with why you can’t just walk into the woods and walk to it. “and hint of riches new and old”, again an allusion to something double, he went in alone, but also with the chest but also there are 2 hints. Not 2 riches, but 2 hints of riches, one new and one old.

    “…look quickly down your quest to cease,but tarry scant with marvel gaze, just take the chest and go in peace”

    Notice the use of the word ‘but’. After you look quickly down, your quest is about to cease … but … however … there is this thing you need to do first before you can then …. Take the chest and go in peace.

    • Hi Chris, Try this, “something old, something new, something borrowed, something…….”

  83. I think, but I am not certain, that I know a portion of the “but tarry scant with marvel gaze”, I have NOT alluded to it prior to this, because a sparrow can’t reveal everything it thinks without perhaps feeling sorry that it sang a little too loudly…

  84. Here’s a book everyone might benefit from reading: Blind Spot: Why We Fail to See the Solution Right in Front of Us by Gordon Rugg. I found it excellent.

  85. The poem is very , very, difficult , and it’s hard to decide what is a clue or a hint , but I believe there are a combination of more than 30 clues and hints ….. all pointing to the same location . But for my physical disabilities I believe I would have the chest . Went on a long drive to the site but could not manage the last part physically . Don’t know anyone who I could trust to keep quiet about the location , and that is very important . Good luck to everyone in the chase .

      • Don’t feel that way Dal . You have to study Mr. Fenn’s way of talking and thinking . No two clues are solved in the same manner . Much good luck to you . You have tried long and hard .

    • I wonder if you and I are using a similar approach Rebel, because I am finding a similar result using a combination of the book and poem. Its very complicated and the multiple layers can be confusing at best. I too am physically challenged but am providing loved ones the clues so they can search. There is more to it but thats all I am willing to say, you know the cards not zll exposed, yet.

      • azureweb ,
        I studied Mr Fenn’s writings closely , and there was one thing he said that I have always thought like , and it got me on the right path to the first part . After the first part things got a little easier , but still very difficult . I believe you have to work it out completely , because even the last part is tricky . It won’t be found by accident for a long time .

    • Rebel, at this point I will take 2% percent (1 gold coin and the jade cow) to search for you if it’s in YNP, Wyoming or Colorado above the 39th parallel. as I will be in both those states late next week. I just want to see it and know it’s been found, then sleep again at night. I only have one other condition – you must go public and enjoy the accolades that you richly deserve and bring me along to meet Forrest and the Today show crew (especially Savannah) (and nothing over a 2 mile hike or I’ll pass.). Some people aren’t in this for the money, I’m one of them. I want to meet Forrest and be on TV, it’s that simple for me.

      • It doesn’t require a long hike , but I could never go public for good reasons , mainly related to the official way of thinking . I will pay the taxes required , but not risk a court battle like Mel Fisher had down in Florida . But it would be nice to have the accolades .

  86. For fun i plotted the “x” on the map by heading due west of Toledo and due north of Santa Fe, hoping it would cross in Yellowstone, but I ended up near a tiny town called Rock River, Wyoming. Oh well, it did cross in Wyoming, which is my top search candidate state… The search continues…

  87. And Dal , you have to remember , as I don’t have the chest I could be wrong , so don’t put yourself down .

    • http://dalneitzel.com/2013/04/04/the-nine-clues-part-nineteen/#comment-22225

      “At this time, interpreted the cues as closely as possible. Research has taken down a twisted road, and down in the ‘erin go bragh’ canyon. Poem seems to indicate a crossing, the site looks like there should be a crossing.”

      Seem to have found a way across, aided by the line “I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak”, interpreted as landing an airplane (wheels down). Checking out the surrounding area.

  88. Dal
    Btw saw some of your videos on vimeo . Very nice work . Retired ad photographer myself . This doesn’t apply to chase . Just wanted to commend you on nice work .

    • Reb-
      You are much too kind…and thanks…
      My favorite is the Fountain Flats video. It always calms me down. The short piece with Forrest and Suzanne Sommers makes me giggle because it’s clear how much she likes him.

        • The one without the music is better in my opinion. The short one with music was made just on Ojo Caliente for Forrest’s blog. But the longer one with only ten seconds of music and then natural sounds is my fav…It shows more of that “warm water” in Fountain Flats.

    • Lol yes I noticed and yes it felt like a clue for those who may have wondered what we were talking about! Not a problem. 🙂

  89. For those of you who may be feeling a bit down, tired and weak from the chase, wondering if you should go back out there and give it one more try, let the words of this song be an inspiration to you. the words of one miley hannah “chasing the thrill in montana” cyrus ..

    theres always gonna be another canyon

    im always gonna wanna take it down

    always gonna be an uphill batlle

    with your feet stuck in the Brown

    aint about how fast i get there

    aint about how many bears i spray with mace …….

    (draw this last word out if you are singing along, like maaaaaaayeeeeyaaaayeeeeyaaaaace )

    …. it’s the chase

  90. i think the poem may be pointing to a ruby staircase and anthracite slippers

    • @Chris Yates….. You spray bears with mace?……. Are you nuts?……. Go to a marine store and get a hand held compressed air horn…. I aired a black bear in Gatlinburg, TN and the Highway Patrol clocked him at 45 mph on I-40

      • lol thats funny.

        no i wouldnt mace a bear, he prolly get even madder and chew my head off

        but i wouldnt have mace on me to begin with

  91. Four cards and a joker. Interesting, I made a map, using names of places I got from the poem, I got four names of places from the poem, connecting the dots got me a fifth place, I think they are, the four cards and the joker, I would not be surprised if the joker was the X,

  92. Hi. My dad texted me and asked me to post this for him because his email on his phone isn’t working. Hope I’m doing this right.:

    Hi all. Just got off the train and exhausted. Beautiful weather and much more alive in town than last trip in March. Rest tonight then long bus ride in the am. Probably won’t have phone access after that until around the first of June. Good luck all and have fun. Will update when possible

  93. Einstein / May 22 2013 12:57 pm

    Dal,

    I have not asked but would you like to post my research and trip report on your blog? It is pretty intense – 10 pages in Word format right now. I really think it belongs here and now where else. Any specifications on the images or is it ok if they are in the Word document?

    • Above re-posted by me. I vote yes! Oh god please yes. Solve this the sooner the better no matter who, separate or together for The woods, the streams when I go in even with an other has always been as a church to me. Usually after hitting the wall, my steps begin to match the rhythm of my heart and breath and my mind grows quiet. No more me. No more separate from the rest of creation. Humble Peace. Thus it has always been for me for over 50 years. I want that back before I move back west – which it will not be as long as this chase persists in the fore front of my mind. I think… ergo.
      (Stephanie 2 feet please come back–I’ll have everybody here crying in their beer & disillusioned).

      — continue al forte-

  94. I want to take this space to apologize to Stephanie Davis. I accused her of misdeeds on this blog that she did not do. I accused her of attacking Stephanie and of claiming she had found the treasure. Neither of which she did. Those comments belonged to someone else on this blog. I should have reviewed her comments more carefully and I am very sorry for having given others the impression that Stephanie Davis would do those things. I now know that Stephanie Davis would not have said those things. She has been very kind and very generous in her remarks on this blog.
    Mea maxima culpa.

  95. In a few minutes I will be closing this page to comments and page 21 will be available for new comments.

    Thanks

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