Misinterpreting Forrest…

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Posted in november 2013

Recently someone placed a few Fenn treasure hunt related items up for sale on eBay. The listing includes Forrest’s two latest books, The Thrill of the Chase and Too Far to Walk and along with these items he offers the solution to the poem. As evidence that his solution is correct he offers two email messages he received from Forrest and conversation between Forrest and his partner. Clearly this fellow believes his solution is correct because he is not making much off the books. So the motivation to sell must be something else. For whatever reason this person cannot go and get it himself.

We have seen this kind of behavior before. People who have naively or otherwise misinterpreted Forrest’s email as evidence that their solution, or location of the treasure, is correct. Here is what he writes on the listing to prop up his belief that the solution is, in fact, correct:

I have solved Fenns poem. It took two years to accomplish but I have done it. I am selling the two books; The Thrill of the Chase & Too Far to Walk with my solution to the poem. You will also receive multiple maps of the area and what I believe to be the exact spot and all my notes and drawings.

 I cannot go out to retrieve it due to a medical condition. I ask only for 10% of the chests value upon finding it with using my information you purchased. By buying this information from me you are agreeing to pay me 10% of the chests value.

I had sent Mr. Fenn an email stating a brief vague description of how to read the poem. The very next day at the book signing in Taos, NM he said someone was very close. A few days later my partner had emailed him and said he was going to retrieve the chest and said that Fenn was talking to me through email and the solution. Fenns reply was “bring the chest to me and I will help you on what to do with it and congratulations.”. I later told him I couldn’t go and was going to put it all to rest. Fenn replied with stating I had the most confidence out of all the 24, 000 people who had emailed him. These emails are in the pictures here provided. 

There is only one correct way to read this poem. And that is the only way to find a specific starting point. 

 

The eBay posting is located HERE.

But it is not likely to be up long so I have copied the elements below so you can see them for yourself after the eBay listing has been removed…or sold…

First-the listing- (click on the image to see it larger)

Forrest Fenns Poem Solution | eBay

 

Next-the two notes from Forrest..you probably don’t need these any larger.

$_57-2

$_57-1

 

As I suspect you have noticed. There is no confirmation of the accuracy of Bowhunterman’s solution in either of these notes that he upholds as physical evidence that his solution is likely correct…none at all.

The fact that Bowhunterman believes that there is any confirmation in these notes can only be attributed to self-delusion.

Forrest never tells a searcher if their solution is correct or incorrect nor does he tell them if their spot is close or far. He has said over and over… If he has clues or hints to give out he will give them publicly. Otherwise some searchers would have an advantage over others. If you feel you have the poem solved and all you want is confirmation there is no reason to write Forrest about it. He will not verify or deny your solution. Instead you will probably get a note much like Bowhunterman’s…if you get anything at all.

So lets look at the two notes-

The first note has two sentences. Forrest says nothing about Bowhunterman’s solution. Instead, like a good coach, Forrest applauds the fellows confidence…not his performance…not his solution…but his confidence. This is a tried and true method that coaches in sports and managers in business employ to generate motivation. It congratulates a person for personal qualities they have, rather than humiliates them for what they have not attained. It gives people the message that they are appreciated and others have faith in them even if their performance needs work. Clearly, in the first sentence, Forrest is warning Bowhunterman that his confidence is so strong that perhaps Bowhunterman had not considered the possibility of being wrong. In the second sentence Forrest is making two statements. First, confidence is good. Second,  that proof of finding the treasure will be to bring the bracelet by. The bracelet is the proof. Not the solution.

In the second note there are simply three sentences. Again, nothing is said about the solution. Only Bowhunterman’s confidence.  Forrest reminds him of the confidence he once had and how strong it was and tells him that it is odd to give up when confidence is that strong. In other words, Forrest is telling Bowhunterman not to quit. Quitters never win.

We have seen the kind of reaction that Bowhunterman has had to Forrest’s note several times before. People with unshakeable confidence in their solution who cannot understand what Forrest is telling them…or not telling them. People who believe their solution is correct in spite of the fact that the treasure is not where they went. In spite of the fact that their solution leads them to a structure. In spite of the fact that their solution leads them to Kansas, Idaho, Utah, Nevada or Canada.

Be cautious of over-confidence.

143 thoughts on “Misinterpreting Forrest…

  1. I’m curious to see how Jim’s auction goes and to see if the buyer finds it. Should be interesting to watch. I agree that Forrest just gives encouragement and in the beginning you get all excited that his emails might have meaning. I’ve long ago realized that he’s just having fun and being supportive.

      • That’s the email he used for me. I guess the auction is over. I don’t know if someone won it or what. He was pretty sure he had the right spot. So who knows…..

      • That’s very interesting, Geydelkon. Did the books ever get purchased? Does anyone know? And did the buyer ever go to the spot or reveal the solution? Maybe they found the treasure and didn’t tell anyone. That would be very sad, IMO.

  2. There’s a con artist in every crowd, right Dal? Forrest gets dozens of these false emails — offering HIM part of the treasure if he’ll go get it for them — usually they have some sort of “medical” condition, so they cannot go themselves. What a scam!

  3. Forrest said that he would wait at the curb for him to bring the bracelet. It does sound like he was expecting him to find the treasure chest.

    or that could be some dry wit and Forrest is just a big ol meanie

    • Chris-
      Lets say I am the guy that runs the state lottery. You send me an email and tell me you have a sure-fire set of lotto numbers and are headed over to the convenience store to get a lottery ticket so you can buy a new car. I send you an email back and say that I will be waiting on the curb looking for your new car..

      Do you think I’ll really be waiting on the curb for you to drive by?
      Do you think I believe you’ll win the lottery?

      Maybe it’s just because I grew up in a part of the country where there was a lot of humor like this…
      or maybe it’s because I trade these kinds of (witty?) remarks myself..
      But in my family and among my friends, this would be the way to tell you that although I doubted you’d be right back with a new car, I wish you luck and I’m willing to play in your fantasy game…

      I suppose I could have said…”I doubt it”…or “No chance Chris”…but I choose to be positive rather than negative and I choose to play along in your game..

      It’s common American vernacular..I think..

      Maybe subtle voice inflections make it more clearly humor. Maybe the intent of the phrase is less clear in text form.

      Another reason to try and know as much as possible about Forrest. It can be done by listening to the videos for his vocal style, humor and phrasing and listen to that voice as you read his stories…and emails..

          • Do you have the chest beacon so he knows you got it? I think you need to read the bio in the jar. It probably tells you to do the “code dance” so he can see you on his spy camera that points to his curb. I think he mentioned it at the event I was at. You need to hop on one foot while turning all around. Then put your hand in and shake it all about. Keep repeating that with all your extremities and I’m sure he’ll be out in no time. He might show up in a black and white car with pretty lights.

          • CIA? Nah, but I wouldn’t put it past his prankster self to have been the guy in the PattersonGimlin bigfoot photograph.
            That is, unless you’re in Dr. Jane Goodall’s camp — she’s said more than once “I’m sure they exist”.

          • I think you’re onto something….I bet you’re right and he was in the bigfoot suit…and bigfoot is brown, right? Are we splitting 50/50 once we find where Bigfoot’s home is? The rest of the clues should fall right in place, I’m sure.

          • HAha – yes, it’s just NW of the Fountain of Youth. 50/50 sounds fine by me; so long as you take the ape carcass and I’ll just spirit away that little metal box in the corner…

          • I’d be good just swimming in the fountain of youth. I’d love to get back to my original birth weight and have someone else pay the bills. *what box* LOL

        • I suppose he’s out there right now. Probably been there for a week now waiting for Jim to bring back the bracelet…
          Maybe you should let him know Stephanie..
          The bracelet is in the mail..

  4. Just noticed that the ebay listing states “This listing was ended by the seller because the item was lost or broken.”
    So was his “Forrest Fenns Poem Solution” lost or broken? Was he lost? or broken?
    Maybe his solution was broken and he accidentally lost the books. Probably threw them in the trash.

  5. It helps to know that Forrest engages in a kind-of Texas hyperbole. For example, when I emailed that I was coming down to his recent book signing, he said he was sitting at the edge of his chair. At the edge of his chair? For two weeks? Hardly. It is just his way of talking. I’ve heard these expressions all over the South. Charming but not necessarily accurate.

  6. Opportune post for my lecture:

    It seems to me that so far every searcher has misinterpreted Forrest; otherwise, the treasure would have been found by now. Some might be misinterpreting his words, some might be misinterpreting ff himself, and some might be misinterpreting both. FF has said “I tend to use some words that aren’t in the dictionary, and others that are, I bend a little”, “one of my natural instincts is to embellish just a little”, and something along the line of “it doesn’t matter who I am, what matters is who they think I am”. No wonder ff is misinterpreted at times. Will the real ff please stand up?

    No criticism intended, but it might be helpful for searchers to sit back down at the drawing board during these upcoming winter months. Ask yourself what you think ff is saying, then carefully read or listen to what ff is actually saying. What are you reading into his statements? What are you leaving out? What are you assuming he means? How long have you known ff? Have you spent an evening with him like having dinner, watching tv or playing games, or discussing the day’s events? Or, is what you know of him just what he has told you? Do you believe that ff had a ball of string that wouldn’t fit through his bedroom door, or that his mom threw out his dirty ball of string, or that he enjoys collecting things that are a challenge to get. This man is sharp. He built a business from scratch to multi-million dollar profits. He knows you much better than you know him.

    Do you know yourself? Why are you really seeking the treasure? Is it to go camping? Is it to get somewhat rich? What would you do if the treasure were found by someone else tomorrow? What would you do if you found the treasure? Knowing yourself, strengths and faults, will help you while you sit at the drawing board. One of my faults is that I tend to lecture too much. One of my strengths is that if you present me with good logic, I will change my opinions.

    With all of the books, interviews, and email responses that ff has done, there just has to be a ff Freudian slip or two somewhere that is unintentionally giving away a clue to the location of his chest. You just need to find any slip(s). I do believe that the odds are in the favor of the thousands of searchers as long as they do their homework, use common sense, and remain unbiased while planning their next searches.

    dal’s blog is an opportune place to share search ideas without giving away a specific search area or spot. But, all searchers need to contribute ideas that can be dissected by others. Ideas can be discussing what ff is really saying or actually interpreting parts of the poem or his books. Idle chatting is fun and it breaks the monotony when there are no new ideas floating on the blog, but ff is winning during idle chat sessions.

    For those who don’t know, I have never purchased or read any of ff’s books. I do not want to be influenced by his embellishments. For personal reasons, I have no desire or ever plan on going out and search for ff’s treasure. I like TTOTC because it is entertaining and mentally challenging. But, I often feel the need to share my insights (right or wrong) with searchers on dal’s blog.

    When I first started being involved with TTOTC, I truly believed that the Rocky Mountains extended to El Paso, TX and that ff hid his treasure at San Lazaro Pueblo. Also, that WWWH was Santa Fe. I know that San Lazaro Pueblo is south of Santa Fe, but I felt that if I wanted to hide a treasure for thousands of years, I would embellish a direction. If you keep going north past the North Pole, you will end up south of Santa Fe.

    Next I believed that ff hid his treasure on land that he has control over in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe. This concept was too difficult to research, so I put it aside but with the feeling that it is still plausible.

    Now I believe that ff’s treasure might be hidden among the Lilly pads at Harlequin Lake. All are welcome to go look, but don’t have your hopes too high.

    Also, I am now back sitting at the drawing board trying to approach TTOTC from a different perspective. Good luck to me. I will let you know if I happen on any new concepts.

    End of Lecture.

    • Forrest loves keeping stats:)

      Maybe in all 300,000 people have read and tried solving the poem.

      Forrest has guessed 35,000 looked for the treasure this summer. Maybe another 5,000 before The Today Show aired?

      If each who actually looked spent $500 dollars that would be over $17 million dollars spent.

      God only knows how many hours have been spent by everyone. In capital hours that could easily be $20 million.

      So to date with no winners $37 million dollars spent.

      Done listening to broken records. Knowing this I have no stress and worries.

      Nothing but a big fat turtle smile on my face.

      Rick

      Looter Treasure Hunter Archaeologist

      • Thanks for reading and commenting. I understand what you are saying. Out of curiosity, do the interesting stats that you present include dal’s and Stephanie’s efforts? LOL

        • Have spent $1500 and about 400 hours or $9500.00. Each their own:)

          Point being money time group effort isn’t going to solve this puzzle.

          After doing this for 20 years you kinda have a idea which way you need to go to kick it into gear.

          It’s coming together, slowly but steadily:)

          Rick

          Looter Treasure Hunter Archaeologist

          • Dal:)

            Looting created treasure hunting.

            Treasure hunting created archaeology.

            It’s funny how archaeologists laughed at Heinrich (who founded Troy) and joked about how he was using a fairy tale book to find a buried treasure.

            After he founded Troy they called him a archaeologist and his fairy tale book a historical document.

            They never admit what they first did to him and his fairy book:)

            On the other hand their not all bad people. Some things they use are great for treasure hunting.

            It seems the best places for people like Forrest and myself are in treasure hunting.

            Nice hearing from you, Dal:)

            Rick

            Looter Treasure Hunter Archaeologist

        • Dal actually can do the searches pretty inexpensive. That would make an interesting post sometime. Mine are more expensive, because I’ve been flying(driving takes 4 days just for travel) and have time issues for going out, as I care for my Dad back home and deal with my husbands time off work. Dal’s been able to be out for almost 20 days at a time. I would love that. I know he’s spent a good amount…but it’s interesting how he’s been able to cut corners. Would be interesting to hear how others have.

          • I wish i could cut corners but i went 4 times in 2013 at an average $2500 per trip from florida so that adds up. My next trip should be the last cause I feel good about the location and if it fells i will post my research on Steph blog to aid the next searcher.

          • Oh how cool. My Mom’s in Largo and Lucky is near there too. I might go there this winter to visit my Mom…maybe we can all meet up for a few if I do.

          • That’s because I always drive and camp. I’d buy food whether I was home or on the road so I can’t really consider food an additional expense unless I eat at cafes..which I like to do..
            My real expense is gas…$65 per 400 miles and sometimes I travel 5,000 miles when I am out looking…no kidding! Although that’s the exception rather than the rule. The most expensive trip for me is to NM. Montana is about half the distance.
            Most of the time I make camp near where I am searching. If the weather is lousy I’ll stay in Esmerelda. But most of the time I like sleeping out under the sky. So other than gas..and books…and additional maintenance on Ezmerelda..tires, oil, tune-ups..I can search pretty inexpensively. I think I generally average around $100/day when I am traveling and about $15 per day when I am searching. I stop at libraries and community halls for free wifi. I very rarely stay in a room unless it’s below 20deg at night…that’s the limit of my comfort range anymore…It’s not the sleeping part..my bag keeps me warm..but I have learned to hate getting up and out of the bag in the morning when it’s that cold. I am of the age where it doesn’t cost me anything to enter national parks and monuments..If I am going to be in one place for awhile I’ll do laundry and clean up Ezzy…that’s about it…I spend a lot of time talking nice to Ezzy…She’s got 290,000+ miles and she is doing very well but you know..age is a tricky thing..

          • Maybe for Christmas, we can all send you a part for her and when the time comes for a new engine, you’ll be able to just put all those new parts in her. I can send you a spark plug 😉 Oh wait, I already have your Christmas present LOL…don’t think gold and jewels or funny t-shirt even. What’s your address again? Dal Neitzel Mayor of Lummi Island?

    • Dollarbill, it’s interesting to me that you’ve never gone and looked. I was about to ask if you have placed dollar bills in funny spots out in the woods.

      • DP, being retired with plenty of time on my hands, it would be great to be out fishing and searching every now and then. Just no nos at this time.

        I commented on some other post that a police officer friend nicknamed me dollarbill and it is not at all associated with a Washington dollar bill. I am too tight to cache dollar bills. Maybe if you started at my front door and laid a trail of $ all the way to the blaze, I would get out and about. lol

  7. dal, I am not sure of the appropriate post to ask on, so I will ask here. Has ff mentioned whether or not any of his secreted brass/bronze bells have been found yet? Of course if you say yes, I will ask you where and how they were secreted.

    • According to what Forrest said to me and has been verified by some family members. The bells are not part of the game. The bells are not intended to be found by anyone for generations. There is no map to them that anyone is aware of and even Forrest has said that he probably couldn’t find them if he went back looking. So these bells are buried and could be anywhere in the country. He never claimed he buried them in the Rocky Mountains or even in the west. The last time I visited his place there were probably a dozen bells and jars in his office. They are beautiful. Each one is unique.

      Some are already buried, but as far as I know he hasn’t buried all of them yet. If I had to make a bet I would guess that he is burying them helter-skelter around the countryside in places he likes to go. Some may never be found. I believe that when they are found, one by one, it will be an accident. Not unlike the caches of Clovis points that are occasionally unearthed today. …hmmm…cloves …Clovis points…

      • I just finally watched “America’s Stone Age Explorers” which was produced for the PBS Nova series in 2004. I found it at the local library on DVD and watched it on my friend’s portable player. Awesome! Loved The Fenn Collection of Clovis Points featured. Bears survived the first glacial age and their 50k year old bones were found in a cave on the Alaskan coast. I was thinking of asking Forrest to borrow one of his Clovis Points to attach to a spear to take on my hunt. It may be the most effective defense against a Grizz vs. a Savage 300 firearm that I don’t know how to use. They worked very well on the mammoths. Anything that has survived that many years will be a formidable adversary..like an Alligator! I will practice my jabbing.

        • I just looked up the Fenn Clovis collection on line – very impressive! The points were supposed to have been collected about 1909 in the Idaho-Utah-Wyoming area. Idaho and Utah are out of the hunt area, so does that mean, taking into consideration Forrest’s spice email featuring Cloves, that Wyoming is a good area to search for the treasure? Or since Clovis points were first discovered in Clovis, NM, that NM might be a good place to start?
          So many things to think about! 🙂

  8. Yes Rick…turtle? being a sign, and looter?
    Also each trip cost me….if I sleep in my truck…900.00…
    The tolls and gas from Illinois on Memmorrial day were just under 700.00…I took my son…add food…afew short of a kazillion bucks….three trips and a ticket…a little over 4 grand.
    Even worse…I have no clue where the box is…never got to meet f or bought his book…in which I was going to buy Two Teepees anyhow…lol..
    Brimley is loaning the Secrets book out arent you?
    Mark H.

    • Clovis Points and tools found in Galt, TX indicated that their diet included mostly turtles and other small animals vs. big game that would require Clovis Points to hunt. My friend has a turtle named Nardo who I would never eat and who made me remember the cable series I am watching now. If I win because of “Da Vinci’s Demons” he will get lots of lettuce. I am a turtle like Rick in this search, so Nardo is my official mascot.

  9. Mark

    The turtle is about how one should play this treasure hunt. Slow methodical very careful…………

    We live in a society that wants instant results and please no hard work.

    Sometimes you catch a fast break but this seem to be far and in between.

    My first hunt done here was by selling $1000 in artifacts (which cost a few hundred dollars) and Fenn’s book for $460,

    The hardest part was being patient while everyone else was out having fun……

    We all want nice and beautiful things but at what cost?

    With $4000 dollars I could generate about $1000 in monthly auction sales and still have the $4000 left over. Then treasure hunt this hunt for free.

    Mark it’s all about having fun but also doing things the right way, painful lessons learned over a lifetime:)

    Rick

    • Rick what you say is so true. Everyone wants instant results and jumps to conclusions without research and thought. Just look at all the posts from people who are ready for this to be over. Myself, I have been working on this for a year now. Every time I think I have it more research proves me wrong. I don’t remember who said it: There are treasure hunters and treasure finders (something like that). I hope I fall into the catagory of treasure finder.

      Mark slow and steady wins the race.

      • What about the saying “You snooze you lose”? Are you telling me a loser said it and was just making it up to get everyone out on the starting line? Oh jeez….

        • Guess you never seen the movie “Hidalgo”?

          How many people jumped and ran out the door because Forrest said “Why aren’t you looking for the treasure?”

          That move was all for show just like in the movie.

          He tried pulling that with me until I said listen when I’m good and ready I’ll play.

          Even applied pressure of another competitor being in the search area.

          Which lead me to think i was within 500 feet.

          Stupid me fell though for his other trick over asking for some treasure advise.

          When it comes to the treasure DON’T take any advise from him.

          His personal advise for personal growth though is great.

          Rick

          Looter Treasure Hunter Archaeologist

        • Stephanie I will probably end up in that catagory of you snooze you lose mostly because by the time I save up the money needed to go look someone else will already of found it. I think there has to be a good balance between research and when to go.

          I wish I had the time and money to go and look at all my spots but…. When I do get to go I want it to be about enjoying the moment and taking it all in and making memories with the treasure secondary to all that.

          • I get what you mean tg about the memories, but searching is sooooo much fun. I tried fishing, but all I can think of is that I should be looking for something shiny and cold.

    • Yes, at what cost? Thinking of “Lord of the Rings” again. But also, what price adventure? Some people pay millions of dollars to have one guided by the right trusted, experienced, knowledgeable person with whom they can feel safe and can truly enjoy that adventure without fear. I have considered that very carefully.

  10. Just back from Church…awesome!
    Rick your first trip You sold a book for 460?
    Wow…I guess You could of saved It until You had 4000.00. Just kiddn.

    Too…I sell antiques…Would You like to buy something?…
    Tough business…electric water phone advertising Ins. vehicles
    re purchasing…etc. I sometimes lose money…haha.

    I’m near old…believe It Or not experienced some life…5 Kids.

    I disagree w/your turtle garb.

    Armchair hunting is Just That. I wanted to learn The lay of The land. one can’t experience The Chase until they’ve run with The Bull!
    Reading others solves to save money and time seems#%&&.#-%+-. Just say n.

    Many of us Have spent some cash You couldn’t give It back if my adventure Would be erased….
    Its been worth It!

    Hi tg…
    As You read I disagree with slow…people like Michelle eat slow for breakfast…You lag You lose!

    • Mark, long before TTOTC was a twinkle in ff’s eye, I did my share of camping, fishing, hunting, and rock finding. I remember the freezing mornings and rain storms when Mother Nature would be screaming at me. I remember having to use the rankest smelling public outhouses, trying to hold my breath throughout the visit. I remember often being under siege by ants, bees, or mosquitos. I remember that you can’t see many forests because of all the trees around you. I remember not being able to find dry wood for making a fire. I remember getting stuck on muddy side roads. I remember sitting along deer trails for hours on end and only seeing does, the bucks could hear my teeth chattering from a mile away. I remember fishing for hours on end without even a nibble; they must have known that I was hungry. I remember getting sick to my stomach from all the rich food mixed with beer, and wishing I was home sweet home. I remember finding Mica and other odd stones than only collected dust at home and ended up in the trash. I remember wounding a rabbit and then having to put its lights out with my boot heel. There are more memories, but I think you get the point.

      For a person to just jaunt right out for TTOTC without having a specific spot to search, that person might not come back with the fond memories that you have, and most likely it will be without the treasure. I have to agree with Rick, tgavis, and Chris Yates.

      • $bill-
        For me it’s not places to look that I am short of..
        It’s time…
        Every time I read the darn poem I have another idea for WWWH..and all the rest…
        So it’s not ideas. I am short of…albeit I am probably short on good ideas…but not interesting ones…

        • I am trying to help the best I can, but you know better than anyone else how difficult TTOTC is going to be. I wish I could give you some of my free time, but science hasn’t figured that one out yet either.

  11. Mark:)

    Just came back from a walk, time spent with the Lord:)

    Yes their was a small window to do so between the publishing of the 1st book and it’s other printings. The Today Show created the demand.

    Forrest calls it grabbing every banana I call it planting a banana tree:)

    Sometimes one needs to use speed, here with this hunt I rather keep a steady slow pace on the puzzle.

    Did end up in Yellowstone, the park got my money and I was given the lessons:)

    Getting out in the field did add knowledge and growth which would have never been obtained at home.

    Rick

    Looter Treasure Hunter Archaeologist

    • “Just came back from a walk, time spent with the Lord:)”

      I like that

      Rick, agreed with the slow methodical approach

      i think the person who finds the chest will understand that F buried it, didn’t mark the location, and they will need to know where to go, and will need a good metal detector

      what do you think about that

        • Metal detector or other tools are not needed, but the question from Taos was if a MD would be helpful, not if it’s necessary. That tells me that the box is not obscured with so much stuff that a detector would be out of range.

          • Forrest is no stranger to metal detectors and I though his answer was a tad more specific than saying that a metal detector would definitely help…lol…

          • Is that the exact question? I kind of thought that the question was can you use one and he said yes if your right there or something. Well, would it matter where it is? You can use one and probably get a signal. They even make them for water(bought one) that could be used. I think this could be an example of not having to tell all the truth.

          • DP, ff said in his recent October event that a metal detector would be helpful if you were exactly over the chest’s location. I think Steph put a video link to the event in a recent post. His comment is near the end during question and answer session. I noticed that ff did not say standing over the exact right spot.

          • This is the blog entry from Stephan where Forrest sent him a poem that said a tool is not needed. This blog entry I believe has gotten more hits from what Dal had said at one time.

            http://dalneitzel.com/tag/pirates/

            I think Forrest saying helpful(if that’s his exact word) doesn’t mean much. He says things that he knows can be interpreted in so many different ways. What does helpful mean? Either way, the blog above means it’s not needed.

        • why do you say you are not supposed to need a tool?

          as far as i am aware there is nothing in the book or from Forrest saying that

          here is my read on Fs answer about the detector, and i understand it is open to interpretation. he said a MD would be helpful if you are in exactly the right spot

          now saying u need 2b exactly the right spot isnt what i key on here bcuz thats just how MDs work, u need to be in the right spot. the key is he is saying it would be helpful

          if there was,as i prev thot, a blaze marking of some sort on a rock/stone or something else if you are in the right spot, then i dont think i could say a MD would be helpful, bcuz if u r right there you will see the marking.

          if if the marking is not conspicuous enuff to notice it even if u r right there, then that defeats its purpose. also the chest would not be hidden in plain site, bcuz again a detector isnt helpful if u r in exactly the right spot, bcuz u already see the chest in plain site.

          maybe its not buried or hidden by much (or maybe it is), or covered underneath a stone/rock. but point is, you won’t see it and the location is not marked. under those circumstances a MD certainly would be helpful.

          sure makes sense why someone would never accidentally stumble upon it.

          there are good reasons why F wouldn’t come out and clearly say, it is buried, and you will need a metal detector unless you are hoping to get more lucky than a lottery winner.

          like he said recently, he is looking at hundreds possibly thousands of years down the road. you arent going to find it out on a sunday picnic. and the person who finds it is going to have to earn it.

          by burying it and not marking the location, it assures that person who finds it had to be there because they solved the poem and knew where to go. anything else seems to me to be too vulnerable to accidental discovery.

          • One of the first few tidbits to come out after the chase started was: no special equipment is needed to find it.

            IMO, Sure, equipment could be helpful, but technically not necessary.

          • i dont see anything on the thrill resource page about what you are talking about

            and i cant accept it just bcuz you say so

            one thing i see is it says to take a gps. is that any more special equipment than a detector? i dont see anything about that though anyways

      • Yates You don’t need a MD but if your going out in winter take and use a MD.

        Made enough money to go anytime this year 24/7.

        Been in the Rockies in the winter. If you haven’t…..

        Don’t think he buried it in order to avoid any problems with the Feds.

        The snow on the other hand might bury it.

        Yates be dam sure you have the right location…..

        Best

        Rick

        Looter Treasure Hunter Archaeologist

        • I dont think its buried but I think he avoids the question cause it might be under a couple of rocks or logs so thats a gray area to call it buried or not. I have read the books back to back and did not see anything that jumped at me that i might need a MD or shovel. You can find a man-hole-cover with a MD if you were right on top of it. But if i am wrong i would like some ideas so i can get a MD for my next search

          • I agree William. He always says something like he doesn’t want to say whether it’s buried or not because that’s too big a clue. He wrote me in an email “For me to say that the treasure is buried or no is an important clue that I will never reveal although the press has made allocations that lean toward both claims”. To me, there is no good reason to NOT reveal whether the treasure is buried or not other than that it is hidden in some manner by rocks , brush, branches, etc. So, maybe it’s not exactly buried, but hidden from easy viewing and will not be stumbled upon.

        • Rick,

          You are correct. If anyone is going out in the Winter, make sure you know exactly where you are at all times.

          I went out in September on a trail. I left the trail to check out a high spot with large boulders. Made it to the boulders and searched the area. Looked back and started down the mountain to where I thought the trail was. It wasn’t where I thought it should have been.

          Took me a few minutes and a touch of panic to locate the trail again. I was within a couple of hundred feet but went at an angle to where I thought I should have gone. This changed everything.

          This was in broad daylight and clear skies. I could see everything…but the trail blended back into the surroundings.

          Imagine if it had been with some snow on the ground or obscured sky or fog. I would have been front page news.

          Winter in the mountains is no time for taking chances or letting your guard down.

          Everyone be smart and safe. “May the Forrest be with you”.

    • Hope your ok down there Mark. We only lost power up here, but you guys got hammered down state. Those were some freaky storms.

  12. Forrest says that he responds to people who say they know where his treasure is or found with Congratulations, will you sell me my bracelet back in the Taos event video after the 49:00 mark. So if bowhunter had gone to the Taos event…he would have known that, that’s a standard reply of Forrest’s to lots of people.

  13. Stephanie

    on November 17, 2013 at 5:11 pm said:

    This is the blog entry from Stephan where Forrest sent him a poem that said a tool is not needed. This blog entry I believe has gotten more hits from what Dal had said at one time.

    http://dalneitzel.com/tag/pirates/

    …………………………………..

    Steph, thanks for sharing that

    so for me to accept that F has told us a tool will not be needed means that i need to accept that F shared that critical piece of information in a personal email to this searcher, but has not made this clear to the broader audience.

    and it seems we are dependent here on this person’s accuracy (notice he says ‘i think’ he said …. did he get an email from f or not?) and also his interpretation of what f is telling him based on a poem f wrote to them in an email.

    does this seem like a bit of a stretch to anyone yet? i think thats kinda the point of this whole thread, Misinterpreting Forrest. bowmanhunter is perhaps putting too much stock into the literal meaning of words emailed to him by Forrest. and i think Forrest has implied it is dangerous to do so with responses from him in emails, for example when he talks about ‘people asking questions need an answer’

    if one believes that a tool is not needed, ok, but i hope they are not relying on this as the reason why.

    • This was very early on when Forrest wrote that to Stephan. I think it’s the real deal. It’s one of the reasons I think it could be under a rock maybe or a pile of rocks. I talked to Stephan back then and I do believe this was for sure from Forrest. I also believe that this one is hard to misinterpret. I don’t think it means you can’t use one like a metal detector…but that one isn’t needed.

  14. I do not believe that Skippy really “borrowed” a Bi-Plane or that they roped a Buffalo & tied it to his car. — it ain’t fittin’ it jes’ ain’t fittin’….ain’t fitting’!

    • Do we have to believe to find the treasure? Sometimes we just go with the flow and try and figure out the bigger picture.

      I am grateful you brought the subject up because it hasnt been discussed much anywhere about the Skippy stories. Did I miss it here on Dals blog?

    • There were scenes in “Da Vinci’s Demons” that correspond to symbols and experiments that I imagined while reading Babylon’s post. Also thinking of the crystal radio that Skippy made for Forrest.

  15. Look what I found boys and girls. I found this in the EXACT same location I decided on as my main search area, two full months after I decided on the search area. I am even more convinced now than I was two months ago. Will find out as soon as it’s warm enough.

    • Adam-
      Pics can’t be put directly in the comment section. If you have a place to place the photo..like flicker or yahoo…then you can give us the link to it in the comments section…

      I wanna see it!!!!

      • I think I have changed my mind about posting this picture. However, send me your personal e-mail and, as long as you give me your word not to share it with anyone or go there yourself before me, I will send it only to you. The chances of anyone finding this spot, even if they tried, are slim, but I don’t like taking unnecessary risks. I have been following you and a few others for a long time and I realize your passion for this is as great as mine. If I am right, and I think I am, I would like to include a couple of you in the process in some way…..if you would be interested i that.

    • Adam C – how’s about, if no link, you describe with a handful of words and tell us which of the 4 remaining states you’re hunting? (No fair teasing everyone buy Dal)

  16. Dal…
    Could you please enlighten us? I was under the impression that Forrest wanted to hear about our theories and adventures. I spent much time and effort giving him that. The gesture was done out of respect and for his enjoyment. Isn’t every correspondence prefaced with “I could be wrong but” whether it is written or not? I imagine things change and someone once said; be careful what you wish for. I am getting the feeling he is weary of the attention and wishes he could alter the wish (if it was one) Let’s face it, although an author may be a searcher, a searcher does not make an arthur. If we trust Mr. Fenn about “knowing the chest is still out there”, every correspondence to him(except one) is in reality a “misinterpretation”. Maybe we could get a clarification. If he be weary of the specifics of our journeys and feels like screaming if he has to read yet another interpretation of WWWH or the Blaze, we should probably all take the hint. I don’t care how well the writing, I would scream and throw my computer at the wall if I received 24,000 emails. It would be understanding if Mr. Fenn relayed to us that he has now received enough emails, please send any additional ones to Dal(maybe)ha ha. Dal could forward the crème de la récolte.

    • Shikari-

      I don’t believe that Forrest is any less enthusiastic about the search today than he was the day before he announced it. It’s my impression that he enjoys email contact with searchers and loves hearing about our exploits. He seems to particularly enjoy stories from people who have overcome obstacles to pursue their search. I think there are times when he tires of answering the same questions over and over ad nauseam. If I were him, I would certainly be tired of the negativity. The folks who chastise him for starting the treasure hunt in the first place or from hearing over and over again from people who feel the search should be easier or who demand this or that from him. And he certainly does not relish the threats to the safety of him and his family that the treasure hunt has elicited from dissenters and the mentally challenged. I know he is touched by the folks really in need who cling to hope of finding the treasure.

      But I think, more than I would have, he understood long before hiding the treasure that complaints and threats would be part of the process. Along with the fun, comes sacrifice.

      I believe he feels that he must control his time spent on the treasure hunt. I am certain that if he attended to every email that comes his way from searchers there would be literally no time for anything else in his life. To avoid total ruin of a rich familial, social and cultural life in Santa Fe he limits his email responses while still promoting the treasure hunt and it’s benefits (getting folks off the couch and away from their video games) as much as possible. How can we begrudge him that?

  17. i emailed forrest a few months back and he wrote his response on this blog. i thought that he was telling me that my spot was correct but i know see he was just messing with my head.

          • he was not posting under his name. he had a few alias. i think vg boss was one and dollarbill was another. did you delete and messages when you got the website? because and i went back and checked and there are some missing….

          • HA!
            So let me see if I have this correct. You believe that VGBoss and/or DollarBill are actually Forrest?
            You have a creative mind Taco…

          • maybe it was not them but forrest or whoever does forrests emails had multiple accounts on this website. i just remember those 2 were around the same time this was happening. and ill ask you again, did you delete posts when you switched to this new website?

          • There is a way that one can tell if someone is using a different name on the same computer. So lets suppose Dal that you can look in your wordpress logs since you can see the IP address of everyone who makes a comment and see the IP address of VGboss or others. Now you can compare EarthLink IP address from FF and if it matches then there you go… All emails have a properties attachment that shows the Orig: IP. Just like your IP I have logged here and there.

          • Geyd-
            I am quite aware of IPs on my blog. I am very aware that Forrest does not use any other screen name. I am also aware that many others do use different screen names and different IPs. Some people use more than one device. For instance I might use my laptop at home. My pad at the studio and my phone when I am out searching. That would give me at least three different IPs. If I wanted too, I could also have a unique email account to go with each unique IP. That would allow me a different screen name with each device. But that’s a lot of work…keeping track of everything. I also have no reason to do that. I am not trying to hide who I am. But some folks like to pretend they are spies or secret agents…see what consternation they can cause…or just have some fun by pretending to be someone different…no harm intended.

            So..yes..there are several folks on this blog who use different screen names. Some people change their screen name on a monthly basis. Others just decide to change when they get a new ISP or a new device. Others change screen names when they get banned or annoy other searchers. Most of the time I can tell…if I decide it’s important. But I rarely care enough to spend the time checking IPs.

          • Taco, LOL!! ff and I are probably as different from each other as fish tacos and crab sandwiches are. If anyone is an alias for ff, it’s probably dal. That makes me curious as to who ff has hired to pose as dal. Maybe Stephanie is an alias for ff too? Wow, is anyone on this site not ff?

          • I can’t devulge where my treasure spot is. That’s a very private place lol….It’s me Stephanie and only me.

          • I am only me everywhere I go. I have used the same name online since the first day I went online many more years ago than I care to admit. LOL

            For me its a personal choice, what you see is what you get.

            There is a long history of role playing in human history, its nothing new. People have used assumed names to publish under when they feared reprisals from governments and religious movements. In some places you can still be killed for what you say. Arent we lucky to live where we do and have access to forums like this to discuss ideas?

            I try to avoid ridiculing people for their ideas because its counterproductive to solving problems. The only way this treasure hunt will be completed is by people feeling its ok to express an idea and have input from others who may help them to feel out their way of thinking.

            The internet is fairly new to human history but old in oh so many ways, its all part of the message.
            deb

          • Oh, come on now Deb. It could not have been that long ago. The internet is only…what…three or four years old now 🙂

          • PTN, only ff will not disclose his hidey spot; unless, are you referring to a different sought after treasure?

            Deb, false ideas are fine for discussion. False accusations need to be discouraged. dal and PTN are great at using humor to point out false ideas as well as to discourage accusations. I lack their finesse.

  18. Taco, really? Tell me about that. You can email me if you want. That way its not offending anyone here. You dont have to give specifics that would disclose anything about your solve. My email is azuredeb @hotmail.com.

  19. i think misinterpreting forrest is what you have to do to solve the poem. when he says he did this so people would get off their phones and go into the wild i think he meant staying on your phone and internet are how you will solve the poem. you have to be good on the internet to figure out the location, then you can start searching…..

    • I like your conviction taco! In related news, hot is now cold and night is no longer dark.
      Wait, how do we know YOU’RE not Forrest, too?

        • J/k earlier. I’ve got an open enough mind — so, tell me , since FF has repeated over and over that all you need is in the poem, what In The Poem tells you it has to be done via Internet? Very curious about your reasoning / interpretation

        • J/k earlier. I’ve got an open enough mind — so, tell me , since FF has repeated over and over that all you need is in the poem, what In The Poem tells you it has to be done via Internet? Very curious about your reasoning / interpretation

          • Aw, hey now, that was in earnest: I like all the varieties of reasonings out there – anything supported gets my vote. Anything tied into the poem gets me truly on board (half the reason I have ten or so pet theories/solutions is due to interesting interpretations I read on here!). Now, You might’ve noticed I give unsupported claims a bit of a hard time,(especially those saying “I’ve got it! Except for how I don’t. Or haven’t got outta my chair. But you can bank on it I have the REAL solution! I’m sure of it! Your solutions are all bunk!”) but I’m giving no worse than I get, (and I think Dal slaps those down better than anyone. ). 🙂

        • I believe most of us have done a great deal of research on the poem and Forrest through the internet, and we’ve looked at Google Earth a lot too, but you still have to go search the spot your research leads you to. I’m looking forward to going and searching the spots I’ve researched and I know I couldn’t have decided on those areas without the internet.

          As far as Forrest posting under an alias, I don’t believe that for a minute and Dal would know. But there sure seems to be one or more individuals that post under different names. 🙂

          • I dont think Forrest is against the internet. I think he is against the way people use their computers. His comments are about video games, violence, and people substituting those gadgets for the here and now. He has never said the internet was bad. Im sure he is in awe by the amount of knowledge available through the internet. 🙂

          • I agree Deb. Forrest has always talked about how children (and adults) spend too much time with electronic devices and not enough time outside and has been delighted with the emails he gets from all of us searchers, but especially parents who have taken their children out looking for the treasure in the Rockies. It’s good for all of us to get out there, as long as we don’t endanger ourselves. 🙂

    • Taco, I sent you a blog site to go to . You will find posts from vgboss there. Go read the past posts and maybe it will give you some ideas to think about. Your thoughts are not uncommon, so dont feel bad. Everyone gets discouraged from time to time.

    • Cabin fever would require a cabin. I imagine my temporary habitation to be: a monk’s cell, a famous Queen’s quarters, an artist’s studio, or a dragon’s lair filled with jewels and treasures. Not quiet like those though. And not a prison. More on Da Vinci and bats later.

  20. I added an auction section to the blog. I did this so that people who are looking for a way to raise some money for their searching habit can try selling their art or spare Clovis points to other searchers on this blog. There is no fee to list something here. Just send me a photo and a description and we’ll see what we can do.

    Polly’s painting entitled “The Reapers” is our first item. Let the bidding begin!

    You can get to the auctions by going up to the top, right under the big photo. There is a row of items there. The one farthest right is “Auctions”. Click on that and you will get a list of all the auctions going on right now. Click on any item in that list to go to that particular auction…

    Please let me know how this thing is working…it’s a big test…

  21. Hey Dal,
    I hope that I have gained a reputation on this board as someone who helps in contributing new and clever ideas rather than some of those who “know exactly where to find the treasure.” I know I have yet to come on here and said “I HAVE SOLVED THE POEM!” At least………well……not yet but this may be the closest I’ve come.

    The biggest clues for me has been why hasn’t anyone found the treasure yet and why did Forrest say that once the poem is solved you will walk with confidence.

    I know you, Dal, are a big supporter of the idea that the poem is a “map.” A set of clues to guide you through your journey. My only flaw I see with that has been that with so many canyons and warm waters how can one possibly walk with confidence.

    Well, as this board states, because we all may have been misinterpreting what this poem and the clues are. Could it be that it isn’t a puzzle, but a riddle???

    If you look at the poem and its clue as a riddle to solve one particular thing, then go over Forrest’s other clues. You may be one closer step to the treasure than most.

  22. Buyer beware, I see a lot of this when buying laptops for repair. For whatever the reason the seller is letting me have it for a low price.. Yeah letting me have it. :/

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