1,152 thoughts on “THE NINE CLUES…Part Twentyfive…

  1. My thoughts are the nine clues are in correlation with the 9 sentences the poem is made up of. That is, if you don’t count the first stanza as anything than the semi Colon he uses could act as a break, therefor making 9 sentences starting with “Begin it where warm waters halt”

  2. I used to think so. Maybe I still do. Maybe it’s more topsy-turvey than I had thought….regardless, thanks for re-igniting the spark. Things seem to be in hibernation mode lately. Let’s hear some chatter in the outfield!

  3. I maintain that the 9 nine clues are the nine sentences: I feel it’s not linear nor literal nor simple like ‘mrs peacock in the ballroom with the candlestick’. It’s a treasure hunt! ; so among those 9 sentences are many aspects of clues—IMO. I believe these could be describing the route, the motive, the best time of day to find it, and/or the x on the map.

    P.s. If you have a link to video or newspaper quoting FF saying ‘clue 1 is…. _______’ please post it – we’d all live to see it!!!

    • I don’t believe Forrest has ever stated publicly what any of the clues might be…but he has said in response to someone who was trying to guess where the treasure chest was without following the clues that they should:

      Start at the beginning.
      You need to begin where warm waters halt.

      That is not an exact quote but he said it at least twice and each was slightly different but the context was the same as above.

      • I agree, but him saying you need to begin where warm waters halt is just where you begin the search, not necessarily the first clue in the poem. Hell, the first clue could be wood…

        • Michael D – if you are in Hell, there would be no need for “wood”.. fire and brimstone, Dante’s “Inferno”, Dan Brown’s “Inferno”…no movie with Tom Hanks on that one yet..or one for the book I am reading now, either.

          • Also, Michael D, I believe that during the three days between Jesus’s death and resurrection, he descended into Hell (South, through the center of the earth?) before ascending North again to appear to Mary Magdalene and the apostles. He didn’t ultimately ascend into Heaven..the ultimate North..until about 40 days later (and many people witnessed that they saw him during that intervening time). The Comet Ison video I saw at space.com reminded me of all that. Do you know anything about this, Mark?

          • Dan Brown is an excellent Brown to think of in terms of clue 3. His publishing house, or home, is Random House.

          • Mapsmith – I looked in my book for the Random House logo, and found their Doubleday colophon instead. Two D’s back-to-back. 🙂

          • I wonder what Robert Langdon would make of that symbol. 😉
            It sorta resembles the symbol for salt , according to my Dictionary of Symbols.

          • Ive gone down this path, Dan Brown would have had to be famous before 1988, highly unlikely considering he published his first big novel in 1995.

      • Ive been doing a lot of reading on the chase, and It seems to me everyone thinks “begin where warm waters halt” points them to a hot spring, or a complicated system of small and/or large rivers.

        In my opinion it is the first clue, but it only means go NORTH. Originally (I’m pretty sure anyways) Forrest never stated, or put out a map of the Rockies saying that he had hidden the treasure there.

        If you take Santa Fe and go east or west you will stay the same temperature, for the most part. If you go south, you only get warmer climates. If you go North you will cool off pretty quickly.

        I believe Forrest felt he needed to narrow down the search location because it could have been anywhere with such a vague clue. So he released the map.

        • Did anyone notice Forrest’s profile, looking to the left, in the upper left section of that map??? You can click on the one of the poster that Dal posted to really see it clearly 😉

        • What is that quote, Damian? Something about if you can’t be honest, be vague?? A good strategy.

        • Begin where waters freeze aka NORTH.
          That’s pretty good reasoning, Damian. It’s simple and elegant, like my solve for HOB.
          I like it, and am adding it to the virtual ‘CODEX’ aka search bible 😉

          (sidebar: Anyone notice Mr Holmes say, TWICE, “the thrill of the chase…” in tonight’s episode of SHERLOCK? )

          • No, I was so annoyed by them taking this long, and thought the resurrection explanation was lame.- Really an air-bag taller than a car? The flashy cryptic graphics were also overdone for lack of content. BBC can’t do timely series on time, no respect for the viewer- a year for this?

          • 🙂 mapsmith,
            Caught 1, thanks for comment, will have to pay closer attention on my next viewing and listening endeavour.
            Thank You mapsmith :).
            :)The Golf Chess & Cheese Society

    • He doesn’t have anything like that. He has never revealed what the clues are. But if you think about it logically, even if he gave a location, the odds of finding it would still be slim so (in my opinion) the clues could only be coordinates. Possibly a 9 digit coordinate. This would be the only way someone with no knowledge of the wilderness could find such a artifact. I don’t believe he’s describing an actual land feature, or well-known land feature, because he has been quoted saying that it would be cool if this was found 1000 or 10,000 years from now. Geographical features and geographical locations change over time. So the only way that his Clues could stay consistent through time and the ever-changing land features would be to give a grid location, this should be the only thing that would remain constant. In World War Two they used to use poems to pass secret messages. FYI.

      • Then again…it might be stumbled upon in another 1000 or 10,000 years and so far in the future that no one will know where it came from unless he has put info inside the chest.

        The trouble with these discussions is that people might be purposely miss directing you.

        With my own knowledge of the Rockies, certain of the clues look rather obvious to me and I can’t understand why these die-hard treasure hunters haven’t mentioned them.

        • Marilyn: which clues ? Everyone’s got pet theories about what’s Obvious to them, from Their POV, right?
          I agree that Forrest saying “it’d be cool if someone found this in a thousand years ” does-not-equal “my clues are made to last a thousand years.” This 1000/10,000 yr quote is obviously (IMO haha) from a guy who’s art career started by finding (stumbling upon) discarded artifacts from 10,000 years ago, like arrowheads. I believe his statement there is only about the thrill of and logistics of archeology, not the poem.

          • Clovis applies to your theory of approximately 1000/10,000+/- years…to the reverse longevity of the poem clues and to archaeology in my opinion. The archaeology goes back maybe 13,000-30,000 years to pre-Clovis, if I remember correctly. That all should last for the duration, too, I would expect.

        • Magicians like Chriss Angel, who performs in Vegas and who used to have a series on A&E (now he’s on another network, and he cut his beautiful long, dark hair short, so I’m not in love with him anymore), are really good at mis-direction. I saw him make an elephant disappear, while performing in a large crowd there. I try to learn from the best, like Forrest 🙂

        • Didn’t he put his SIGNED autobiography inside the chest with his hair DNA samples? Wouldn’t that explain everything, including all of the things that have interested Forrest during his life?

          • E, I like to imagine there are other things in that chest that a) are valuable and have amazing histories b) explain about the man, but also leave you with even more questions c) items no one realized Fenn had /that no one knows about yet but FF

      • And they used them closer to about a thousand years ago to do the same thing, too, Jeremiah. You were never a bullfrog, were you??

        • Hi E,

          In my opinion there isn’t much to the 10,000-year thing. From the Moby Dickens event, he does not care if it’s found 100 or 1000 years from now, or “NEXT WEEKEND”. He is not seeking longevity in the hiding spot, he just does not care how long it takes. I think the blaze is ephemeral, myself.

          • Oh..OK, DP…hey, have you ever noticed the logo of the Starbuck’s coffee chain? I am pretty sure that is the siren Charbydes (sp?) and Starbuck was in that Moby Dick-ens story, right? All too weird, if you ask me. What does ephemeral mean? Should I look that up? 🙂

          • I think those are two different things. When it’s found he doesn’t care about. He has said no one will just come across it which to me sounds like it will be there for many many years. So I think it’s either buried under dirt or rocks maybe or jammed under a boulder with rocks blocking it’s view. I think a boulder itself could be the blaze and that’s why it’s passed up by the few that have been near it.

          • I agree that one form of blaze is somewhat ephemeral but it can also the meaning of, to lead in forming or finding.” In other word the clues themselves are the blazed trail that Forrest has marked his journey with. According to Forrest if you were wise and saw the blaze, you would be there.

          • “No legends were as enduring, however, as the claims of thirteen different ghosts that haunted this building..the most famous apparition of all, reported numerous times in the Capitol basement-an ephemeral black cat that prowled the substructure’s eerie maze of narrow passageways and cubicles”. NOW can you guess what book I am reading? Was the name of that cat “Shadow” like Stephanie’s cat in that Lady’s Only blog photo? Lots of other famous authors used that “ephemeral” word, but I pawned my “The Club Dumas” book, so I can’t quote one of those others. My memory is so fleeting…

          • “That which is impenetrable to us really exists. Behind the secrets of nature remains something subtle, intangible, and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion.” – Albert Einstein (have you guessed which book I’m reading YET?) I hope thinking about this statement and how it might relate to Forrest and the company he keeps will help others with the Nine Clues. It helped me 🙂

          • The Clovis Points and where they were found and cached have relevance to me, though. I did some research on ancient grottos, too. That was 10,000+ years ago that they were used, right? I still need to borrow one from Forrest to make my Spear of Destiny to face the Grizzes on the trail. Didn’t William Wallace successfully use spears in one or more of his famous battles? That idea was inspired, if you ask me.

      • Jeremiah – In my “The Story of E” journal entry on my phone from 10-30-13, I wrote that “small e is a mathematical constant; it is irrational like pi, transcendental and approximately equals 2.71828. I also noted, “Brittish sign language for large E shows two index fingers touching each other, just like Michaelangelo’s ‘Creation of Adam’ “. Mathematical equations, symbols, and geometry,..historically famous artists and figures,..and stories passed down through the ages also survive the test of time.

        • Jeremiah – I forgot to mention that NATO Phonetic for E = Echo and F = Foxtrot. My Ee search lead me to E* = Complex Conjugate (a pair of complex numbers both having the same real part, but with imaginary parts of equal magnitude and opposite signs). Doing math has helped me to ignore Smaug 🙂

      • Jeremiah- I’ve looked for the 1000-10,000 year quote, and from what I found it was never actually FF saying it. Media say it.
        He’s said “I’m ambivalent about the treasure being found ….if it were not found for several hundred years that would be fine by me”
        He’s NEVER said “I built the poem and/or clues to last for 10,000 years.” Even if he does say 10,000 years in the future, I bet it’s only in reference to how long the bronze/gold will last. I think the “hundreds of years” quote, though, is a distraction at best. It has nothing to do with how to find the treasure / interpret the clues.
        The poem was made to lead someone there – many poems in puzzlehunts/ treasure hunts do this without coordinates of any kind, FWIW

      • I lost your super soaker post DB. I shouldn’t have read it to my husband, because his laugh at your story hurt more than reading it the first time lol. I’ve put a WANTED poster up at all the airports and expect a call before you step foot on a plane…so looks like you might need to drive.

    • Is that a mathematical symbol, Stephanie? Oh, I have to look that one up! Actually, I already did, but my brain is a sieve, so I can’t remember what I read. The “Dragonology” book I read said to do math to avoid the hypnotic affects of encountering Dragons like Smaug, so I did a lot of math recently 🙂

      • Hahahaha if it involves math I am sunk. Will be searching from now till forever!

        I employ that vague technique and some days it just about kills me to not be able to say anything. I like being helpful, but contrary to public opinion Im not a fool. LOL

        • deb – Pi divided by 2 is the interior angle of a right triangle and has 2x2x4x4x6x6..in the numerator, with 3x3x5x5x7x7..in the denominator, forming an infinite series. Think of the infinity symbol…so, yes, you will be “searching forever” if you look stuff like this up online. That sixtysymbols.com astronomy and physics site, hosted by the University of Nottingham in England, helped a lot…this info was in the video under the symbol for pi 🙂

      • I can’t find what comment you’re replying to E. For some reason I’m not getting all the posts here either. *frazzle frazzle*

        Stephanie….Chasechat.com

          • Ohhh no…the period. I just put that because I was on the my phone and I wanted to sign up to have these blog comments to go to my email. I don’t think you can do that unless you post and I couldn’t think of anything to say and lately I get in trouble when I say things I don’t think really hard about first lol.

          • I just looked up the symbol called a circumpunct. Can anyone guess which book (that I hadn’t read before) I am reading now? The owner of the local pawn shop loaned it to me for two days, if I pawned “The Club Dumas”, or I could pay $3.00 for it. He also has a few gold Papal ducats that I enjoyed researching. Are those worth more than a Quid? The symbol on the shop’s business card is three gold balls (not six). That made me think of the Medici crest.

    • Arguably the shortest written exchange ever was that between Victor Hugo and his publisher, following the publication of Les Misérables, with Hugo enquiring with a simple “?” about the book’s success, and his publisher responding: “!”

  4. The nine clues are the path to the treasure. They must be followed in consecutive order. Begin the journey where warm waters halt. When you are done you will find the blaze.

    • So in late October, if I brought my biodegradable soap, I could bathe where warm waters halt after a long drive to Yellowstone (even if they have another early park shutdown). Since I am not really happy yet with the way my body looks, I would definitely be going “alone in there”! Where will I be? Only the Phantom knows…and when I am done bathing, I will find the blaze…or before, when I find the soap there!

  5. i think the first stanza is very important and should not be left out it has some very good information its just my opinion

    • I wonder if we don’t tend to overthink some of these clues.

      For Christmas, we have the annual treasure hunt at our house. The grandkids are now tweens and teens and getting too smart for this old lady, but I realized this year how difficult it is to write clues that are clever, yet truly point the way so the treasure will be revealed ultimately. I know Forrest is a highly intelligent man, but I also think that he would love for the treasure be found during his lifetime. If I were in his shoes, I would be greatly disappointed if I died before it were found.

    • Frank : Thank goodness I’m not alone on this. !!!
      1st sentence of every book is monumentally important in so many cases. “Call me Ishmael” —supreme example.
      Fenn’s a) a writer b) a fan of good writers c) using a POEM – a written piece of literature- to lead people on this chase. All this makes my opinion THIS : he didn’t include any sentence that didn’t in some way help the searchers (or… show off how clever he is).

      As I have gone alone = clue #1 IMHO

      • God is with us. Always. THIS is another supreme example, like Ishmael. I read a little bit from a book called, ” HOLY SH*T “, at the bookstore recently. It would probably have an “R” rating, if it was a movie, so not for everyone. It has a great symbol on the cover, and it mainly deals with the history of swearing; expletives as well as the swearing of sacred oaths. I read the chapter about Rome and Pompeii. And I did some research on other Christian symbols from the past few thousand years. Enlightening, Mapsmith. Thanks.

        • Mapsmith – I forgot to mention that I found a “The Reaper” painting, when I did my Christian symbol research, which reminded me of the one Dal auctioned on his blog..very interesting 🙂

      • “Three punctures were made in the heathen flesh, and the White Whale’s barbs were then tempered.” From “the episode of the forging of Ahab’s harpoon”, quoted by a character in “The Club Dumas”. I didn’t really pawn the book..I am learning the fine art of embellishment of my stories from Forrest! And I am NOT showing off how clever I can be, Mapsmith 😉

      • 🙂 Mapsmith,

        1st Poem Clue Color, contained in poem itself.
        Adobe / Abode ( Home ) Body Text Color
        “Reddish” Letter color.
        Visual Observation ( 1 of 5 Senses ) of TTOTC Poem Page 132 ConstructionTechnique utilized.

        Match, Strike, Spark, Blaze, Fire, Light
        🙂 The Golf Chess & Cheese Society

    • frank – I think the first stanza represents the source…of a very long river, maybe? Like the river of life? Like a line of vertical ascension? Oops, did I say too much? 🙂

      • frank – have you by any chance read “Oh the Places You’ll Go!” by Dr. Suess? It includes the line, “So be sure when you step. Step with great care and great tact..And never mix up your right foot with your left..” it is a great children’s book, which I found at my local coffee shop, which for me, directly applies to the TTOTC journey.

        • That book is trippeeee…. I don’t know how to get to stripey Seuss-land without some hallucinogens. 🙂

  6. I used to firmly believe the coordinate theory….and sometimes I still do….But he stated a few searchers figured out the first two clues, but went right by the chest, never knowing how close they had been…This tells me coordinates are not the key…at least not the whole key…

  7. I’ve gone back and forth on this, between thinking the 9 sentences were the 9 clues with the 1st stanza being the 1st clue and thinking WWWH is the 1st clue. At the moment, WWWH is my pick for Forrest’s 1st clue “And take it in the canyon down” as the 2nd. I do think all the stanzas are important though, that they are hints to help with the clues.

    Although it was in a different context, I remember f talking about “useless” clues that don’t directly lead you to the treasure – his definition of a clue seems a bit different than what most of us think of as a clue. It made me think that maybe not every sentence in the poem was a clue to him. At least that’s what I think today. 🙂

    • I’ve often wondered if ‘start at the beginning’ might allude to a grammatically correct beginning: the poem includes a question. And an answer. Other than twisted situations , like that game show with Mr Trebeck, a question properly precedes its answer, so perhaps, if FF is being very tricky, lines 17&18 ought to be “clue #1” and you read down from there!!
      Without giving my exact key away, there IS a very interesting acrostic that can be sussed out if you start at the question/line 16: one that suggests both a region, and a specific geographic feature within that region. So I’ve been considering “line 16 = where to start” as more than just an entertaining idea, but a legit possible Solve.
      IMO of course. 😉

  8. Here are the nine lines that I feel contain the nine clues. (partial solution?)

    1. Begin it where warm waters halt (start)
    2. And take it in the canyon down, (enter canyon upstream)
    3. Not far, but too far to walk. (drive)
    4. Put in below the home of Brown. (park)
    5. From there it’s no place for the meek, (wildlife and authorities)
    6. The end is ever drawing nigh; (close by)
    7. There’ll be no paddle up your creek, (hike)
    8. Just heavy loads and water high. (snow and runoff)
    9. Your effort will be worth the cold. (October)

  9. Hi,
    My head held down…but puppy dog eyes peeking up.
    I’m thinking the hunt has moved to Wy. I’m almost positive.
    Now I’m whistling as I walk away hoping not to be noticed!
    Mark
    Be a volunteer in 2014!

    • Mark – I still like the Big Horn Medicine Wheel in Wy…the wheel of life figures into their Native American belief system, too. Basically, be careful not to judge the roles other people are playing in this lifetime and the challenges they are facing to learn lessons and to advance on “the road”. You may be on their spoke on that Medicine Wheel next time around. Did anyone else find the secret and ancient Medicine Wheel on a very big ranch with a blaze, located somewhere along a great fly fishing river? You could stand there and communicate with other Native Americans across the river, located at strategically placed markers. How cool is that?!

  10. $bill-
    Remember when Forrest stunned a couple of searchers last spring by writing that he has never handed out any clues. That the things he has said and written since the poem are not clues….

    He went further to say that his definition of a clue is something that will get you closer to the treasure…

    That none of the so called “clues” on the Today Show or mentioned elsewhere were really “clues” because they do not take anyone closer to the treasure…

    Okay…all this is just as mystifying to me as it is to everyone else..but it does possibly provide a guide to what he considers to be a “clue” in the poem..and if I apply his definition of what a clue is…then I come up with a different set of nine clues than what you came up with $bill..

    Having said this..I wonder why it is important to understand precisely which are clues and which are directions or hints or whatever else Forrest might call them..

    Unless…you’re only supposed to follow the clues…and only the clues…
    Disregard all else..

    • reguardless clue or hint I believe every line in the poem has to be used to get you from point A to B. But everyone one has there own views but you been in the chase from the beginning so what is your thoughts Dal.

      • William-
        My first thought is that I have not found it so my ideas don’t work.
        Having said that…

        I wonder about other things Forrest has said about the clues in the poem..
        For instance-
        “There are nine clues in the poem. Follow them precisely and they will lead you to the treasure.”
        Could he be saying that there are more than clues in the poem but you need to only follow the clues..??

        • Dal – I think every word, in the poem, counts. This lends itself cred when you consider FF said ‘ you’ll move with confidence”. Red herrings don’t instill confidence – so my goal for a while has been to figure out a Solve where every word and every sentence of the poem lends itself to the same theory / route. I’m hoping once I’ve surpassed that ( impossible) step, irregardless of whether it fits the other hints or his interview quotes, then I’ll probably have the solution of how to find the treasure. (I hope) 😉

          • Mapsmith,
            I have to agree with you. Every word counts and has meaning. This work of art took him 15 plus years to write. The word that interest me at the moment is “quickly”. Why must we “look quickly down”? Any thoughts guys and gals?

          • Pam: That entire stanza seems to be about hurrying. That, and line 10. Either it is poetically referencing mortality, or it means ‘hurry the heck up’. Or both.
            If that’s true, here’s my read on it: either
            A- the route you’ll be led on takes a full day to traverse, and it’ll be dark and to hard to find the chest if you don’t get a move on. (See also: sandwich and a flashlight)
            B – the chest has been hidden in a populated or touristed part of the Rockies , so you have to make haste ; grab it & run if you don’t want any interference.
            Or
            C- it’s in a place with a recurring danger, so careful timing more than haste, is required. Like a geyser mound or a Brown bear den. 😉

          • Pam-
            A searcher once asked Forrest-
            “What do you see when you look quickly down?”

            Forrest responded-
            “My feet. What do you see?”

      • There are also folks who believe the nine clues are not even readily visible in the poem. That the clues are only revealed through numerology or through anagrams or through some other form of code in the lines themselves….
        I do not believe that…
        However…having said that…note that you can make the name Rio Grande in each and every stanza without reusing any letters..
        There are other interesting river names that can be made that way too…sometimes even more than one in each and every stanza..
        For instance Rio Grande and Red can be made this way…Is this a clue? Does it mean the treasure is hidden at the junction of the Rio Grande and the Red…I doubt it…
        There are many even more interesting place names that can be found in each stanza of the poem without reusing letters…
        coincidence????…probably!!!
        clues????…probably not!!!
        fun????…definitely!!!

        • Dal- I had no idea you were such an anagrammer..!
          My suggestion:
          Instead of river names, maybe look for other words like compass points, degrees, or numbers that illustrate distance.

    • dal, if a clue is only to be something that will get you closer to the treasure, I can then only find 4 clues in the poem.

      1. Begin it where warm waters halt (start)
      2. And take it in the canyon down, (enter canyon upstream)
      3. Put in below the home of Brown. (park)
      4. There’ll be no paddle up your creek, (hike)

      To me, any other 5 would just be descriptors of the place or when to look. I am really curious as to which other 5 are “get you closer” clues. Are you willing to share? After all, you did start the post. Hah! *smiley face*

      • $bill-
        I can parse a few more out but even if I do I am still left with the first clue being “Begin it where warm waters halt.” and I have yet to understand where that place is…so right now I am left without an advantage…

        • dal, as you have probably gathered, I am stuck on the warm waters halting at YNP or along the upper Madison River. YNP because of all the hot springs and geysers created by a hot spot. Madison River because its temperature fluctuates between warm and cold with the seasons.

          Sometimes I feel that ff is under great pressure to say something and at the same time not give away any significant clues. At times, this pressure might cause him to say some things on the spur of the moment that could be said much more accurately given more time. I feel this might be the case with clues only get you closer to the treasure.

          Any words that narrow the search range have to get a searcher closer to the treasure. Any words that describe an area must also get a searcher closer to the treasure. Any words that describe when to search must also get a searcher closer to the treasure.

          Just my thoughts and why I will stick with my nine clues as stated.

          No offense intended. If I was ff, this chase would be in shambles a long time ago.

          • $bill-
            I agree..
            Forrest once told a searcher who suggested that the entire YNP could be the place where warm waters halt that he was wrong…
            That it was a specific place and not a region…
            Which suggests to me that it could not be something like the continental divide or the western front of a range of mountains…as has been suggested in other posts on this blog..

            Most recently I concentrated on the place where the Firehole River ends. It comes to a dead stop…along with the Gibbon River at Madison Junction in YNP. This is the place where the Madison River begins. I liked this as the place where warm waters halt..more than any other halting place I have considered. It seems to me you cannot get any more halting than at a river’s absolute end and if the river’s water is so warm that fish have to leave it and it’s name is Firehole…how can there be a better place associated with that clue????

            But moving on from that spot by following the clues is terribly difficult..not because there is not a canyon…but because other problems pop up…all who have tried to make that place work have encountered the same issues as the clues seem to fizzle into oblivion the deeper you go..

            The first two clues are a cinch…but keep going and things get fuzzier and fuzzier..

            Remember…”they figured the first two clues correctly…”

          • By the way, I am selling detailed maps of the yellowstone region with all the canyons, dangerous places, shallow creeks and waterfalls at a very reasonable price. I am also opening a small motel in West Yellowstone this summer so if anyone needs accommodations out there…just let me know.. 🙂

            just kidding

          • I think YNP makes sense when he talks about no one finding it for 10,000 years. I think that still can be places in NM too though.

            *waiting for you DB*

          • dal, if you look at the USGS WY 7.5 min series map for Mount Jackson, you will find Madison Canyon clearly identified. The USGS WY 7.5 series map for Madison Junction clearly indicates the start of Madison Canyon in relation to Madison Junction (note contour lines) even though it is not identified. For those who are not aware, you can download USGS maps for free at:

            http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/b2c/start/(xcm=r3standardpitrex_prd)/.do.

            Warm waters from the Firehole River do not stop at Madison Junction. It is the Firehole River waters that over heat the Madison River waters of YNP during the summer months. Googling “fishing the Madison River” will provide articles explaining the phenomenon.

            I think that the small motel in West Yellowstone is a great idea as long as YNP and Hebgen Lake area remain possible hidey spots. If you need an investor, let me know. I have $10 that I can spare. 🙂

          • $bill-
            I’m sorry but that sounds like misdirection to me..
            It also conflicts with what you said earlier about how you could make every clue fit starting at MJ..
            At least I thought that’s what you said..

            I have never been able to make EVERY clue fit..
            I have tried…believe me..

            In all 44 trips that I have made, and looked in well over 100 different spots, the farthest I have ever gotten was the blaze…
            and most times I have never found a suitable blaze..

          • Sorry dal, Madison Junction could be considered WWWH during October and the following months, at least until the sun and Firehole heated the waters there. 🙂

          • By the way, I don’t feel that the clues do fizzle out for this area. I can provide my interpretations that I feel unravels the entire poem. 🙂

          • I truly think some of the ideas on here are so brilliant that people should be given awards for how well they are able to match to poem to areas of interest. But let’s not forget our good friend Boots, the comic character on Fenns page who spent 107 years on the search and died at his computer looking.
            I think that these Blog pages are useful, but in my opinion I don’t think any single person is going to find the treasure. I’ve mentioned in
            the past about teaming up and creating a group of people looking for this treasure. Sounds unrealistic, seeing that everybody wants the treasure for themselves. But if you think about it, the only real way to find this would be to get a group of people to pool their resources. Unfortunately the green eyed monster won’t allow that to happen.
            Still, I still find myself astonished to read some of the comments here,
            some of the ideas or so well thought out, truly, they deserve a reward for originality.

          • One more thing for anyone considering the Madison Canyon area; this is no area that a dying man could access (or want to) 24-7-52. 🙂

          • I’m curious if you’ve opened the package I sent to you yesterday. It should be on your doorstoop. It’s the one wrapped in black and white paper and you might be hearing some little noises coming from it. Please put down your morning Bloody Mary drink and rush and open it right away.

            *whisper to everyone else*

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaFXUhm2EQs

          • All of a sudden a Bloody Mary is calling for me? I think that I will go to it.

            UPS did ring my doorbell this morning (what is with being on time??). I told the UPS gal to return the package to sender, it sounded like something was wrong with it. You shouldn’t put your return address on surprise packages. Hah! 🙂

          • Oh that’s ok. I’ll be sending you something again next week….I’ll just tell you what it is…it’s a very beautiful clock. If you put your ear up to it really close, you’ll hear the ticking just before you open it.

            I’ll be waiting for the return of my package. I hope it doesn’t get damaged on the ferry back to lummi island.

          • Good one PTN, LOL. I think that I may soon have someone joining forces with me fighting the evil one.

          • It would be my educated guess that I will be avoided. *getting out the popcorn* Let’s wait and see…oh and what’s the wager on this? Excuse me, but I have to go to the doctor and get my plague checked on.

          • I am on my second Bloody Mary and feeling soooo confident that I am willing to bet my virginity, which I hold very dear. What are you willing to lose that is dear to you? Don’t even think of your family!

            Plagues can be avoided if a person doesn’t socialize or open strange packages. That is why I only caught the Black Plague twice. Survived by giving it to my friends.

            Lummi island is noted for its revengeful inhabitants. So, put the popcorn away for a better day. I’m finally a poet! Yeah!

            If you notice any planes flying low over your home, best stay indoors.

          • Your virginity. That’s a winner. Every man betting against a woman should use that….good one.

            I think I hear one of those planes now….*looking out window*

          • If I showed you my scary face, you would concede the war! I’m not on your site or ff’s site because I would be on the computer from dawn til dusk, and then some more. I’m on dal’s site because it was my first and I’m loyal, just ask my 4 exes. Good try though. You will just have to tell your hit men that I look like a young Sean Connery. By the way, I am on my third Bloody Mary, thanks a lot. 🙂

          • I have to go salt the driveway. Keep your planes away for a while. Dal was your first? I thought you still had your viginity…*jealous* Ok…gotta go salt so I have time to be on all the sites from morning till night.

        • But dal, perhaps it is not where warm waters halt but when. Just a little theory I have been running on.

          • Perhaps it is. But I think I’ve figured out WWWH….
            It makes a lot of sense on many levels…
            Now I only have to figure out 8 more.. 🙂

    • Dal, I figured FF meant the 9 ‘clues’ take you Toward the chest. The today show hints just tell where NOT to look (don’t take you closer, just rule out odd theories).

      ie Clues are arrows on the map, but everything else is just blacked-out zones. Makes perfect sense to me… 😉

      • I like that Map…
        I think you’re absolutely correct..
        In fact it helps me put into perspective other things he said…
        Thanks…

          • Dal – That reminded me of the swans Diggin’ Gypsy said she saw on that frozen lake on her recent harrowing winter trip..Scrooge McDuck..like the Black Swan in the ballet, “Swan Lake”, which I saw in SF once with Barishnikof as the lead male dancer. My new Princeton student friend, who studies all things Russian, wished she could have seen him there. Oh, and Natalie Portman played BOTH Swans, black and white, in the movie “Black Swan”, didn’t she? That was a very creepy movie, wasn’t it? 😮

    • I have put myself in the mindset of an architect since i’m in the construction business anyways (lol).
      I’m calling the non clues building blocks. Personally i believe they contain a wealth of information especially to an individual with a colorful imagination.

        • Jeremiah – Can I bring a clew into that labyrinth? Ariadne? We have one of those outside a church here 🙂

      • So would the cornerstone of a building be considered to be a “building block”, JJ? I have got to get off of this blog and go read my book!

        • Cornerstone and Foundation Stone are interchangeable words. Building Blocks are part of a structure though.

          • Callous – So, then, a Cornerstone or Foundation Stone,..buried,..with, maybe,..a time capsule inside,..would not be “associated with any structure”?? Digging up the one at the Roosevelt Entrance at YSNP would not be a very good idea, though. Oh, that one has the Building Blocks of the Gardiner entrance arch attached…nevermind! 🙂

          • And as a bonus , that’s in view of one of the Yellowstone society’s 24/7 webcams, for anyone who thinks FF uses a webcam to see if the chest is found.

          • With some cornerstone settings they did have a time capsule set under in or around the cornerstone; these are usually built and marked in a way to retrieve the capsule without disturbing the structure.

  11. all you really need is the correct starting spot after that you can take every line as if it were a clue and it should still take you to the correct location then from there re read every line and see what stands out

    • Knight-
      You left out the word “correct”..lol…
      I agree you need the “correct” WWWH..
      I’ve had five great ones so far…but I don’t believe any of them were correct….
      There are hundreds/thousands of places in the search area where warm water halts..logically…
      But they are not necessarily the ones Forrest worked with..
      “correct” is the key isn’t it..

  12. Here’s my opinion on the clues:

    1. The first clue is “Begin it where warm waters halt…” and “warm” may not be able to be measured in degrees.
    2. The remaining 8 clues follow contiguously.
    3. The last clue is “…waters high.”
    4. The nine clues are broken down into three sets of three “instructions,” (for lack of a better way to describe them.
    5. “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,” is not a clue, it’s an objective. (Which explains why I don’t waste time looking for the treasure.)

    For the full story on my opinion of the 9 clues, refer to one of my December blog posts: http://agypsyskiss.wordpress.com/2013/12/09/my-opinion-revised-the-nine-clues-in-fenns-treasure-poem/

  13. Hello all! 🙂

    I have been a lurker for quite some time on this blog.
    Have been a searcher a few times as well.
    I have enjoyed so many aspects of this chase and
    love hearing so many varied and wonderful stories.
    I also realize that I haven’t been much of a contributor.
    With that being said, I give you the solve my brother and I
    discovered. (google maps reference point 44.869116,-111.340955 )

    1. As I have gone alone in there,
    and with my treasures bold.
    I can keep my secret where,
    and hint of riches new and old.

    My brother and I thought this meant that forrest hid the
    chest somewhere he went with his family, being that
    family is the real treasure. He talked of his fondness of
    time spent in Yellowstone with his family giving a nice
    place to start.

    2. Begin it where warm waters halt.

    With waters being plural we decided that it had to be
    two or more bodies of water that somehow have
    a temporary stopping. We found that the Firehole and
    the Gibbon rivers are the two largest natural geyser
    fed rivers in Yellowstone (according to The Firshermans
    Guide to Yellowstone). Those rivers merge to become
    the Madison, which empties into Hebgen Lake, to be
    Halted by Hebgen Dam.

    3. and take it in the canyon down

    Not only is it a beautiful view when looking down the
    canyon from Hebgen Dam, but there is also a small
    canyon on the south side of the Madison as it bends
    to the left.

    4. not far but too far to walk,
    put in below the home of Brown.

    The only way to reach the small canyon on the south
    side of the river without a long and arduous hike is to
    wade or boat across, “put in” being a term used for both
    when launching in the water. Hebgen Lake also has
    the highest concentration of brown trout in all of
    Yellowstone and surroundings (fisherman’s Guide to
    Yellowstone), thus being the home of Brown.

    5. from there its no place for the meek

    The Madison there runs quite swiftly in that area, and
    sure footedness in necessary. A reference to the artist
    Veryl Goodnight will show a painting she made for Forrest
    is called No Place for the Meek. That painting was made
    after she came out of the Gallatin Mountains. Those
    mountains were named after the Secretary of the Treasury
    of that time, Albert Gallatin.

    6. the end is ever drawing nigh.

    After putting in below the HoB, the river takes a turn
    to the left, also this area is close and to the left.
    As you try to cross the river here, you will have to keep
    pushing, steering, or drawing left to get to the canyon
    to the south.

    7. there’ll be no paddle up your creek,
    just heavy loads and water high.

    There is a fast moving stream that comes into the Madison
    at the end of this area called Cabin Creek that runs by
    a public campground. Figure this meant not to go past
    there. Heavy loads being the fast moving water pushing
    against you as you wade across the Madison here.
    Water high being the deeper areas of the river there
    that can reach six or so feet deep.

    8. If you’ve been wise,

    Wading In Shallow Easements or
    Walking In Straight East
    Depending on where in this area you put in, either will work.

    9. and found the blaze

    Boards Laying At Small Encampment or
    Barrel Loaded with Aluminum Soda Empties.

    Many more parts of the puzzle fit quite well with this area. It has sandwiches,
    Oreos (magpies), the missing X, logs to turn over, rainbows, treasures in trash,
    wildflowers, forgotten soldiers, even a forest with a fen and more.
    This chase has truly been a wondrous adventure and I will forever be thankful
    to have taken part in it.

    • Thanks for the share! I also researched that same area some time back. I won.t say why i moved on but … I am glad you and your Brother had a good time!

      • I am sure you moved on, TexasGold, because the fly fishing was better elsewhere. I think rainbows and boulders have been at JC.L’s spot for a really long time, and that they should be here in 1000 years (barring any unforeseen..or foreseen..cataclysms nearby..like the eruption of a certain Super volcano! Or overfishing. Or too many aluminum soda empties. Or a massive earthquake, like the one in 1959…which caused boulders to move and make some really neat formations over water in narrow areas….). A couple of musicians did a funny guitar rendition of “One Tall Texan” at coffee shop deux Monday night. I hope I am remembering that song name right..Lyle Lovett and The Beachboys both recorded it. Do you wear a Stetson? I looked it up in the history of hats, including ones that looked like Napolean’s and George Washington’s.

    • JCL-
      That’s exactly what I mean when I say clues fall apart…
      boards and old cans and piles of dirt, rainbows…they could have nothing to do with the clues in the poem…none last for a thousand years or more…and Forrest would not want to end his life in a campground or next to a trash barrel..(IMHO)

      I feel the clues must all be related to more or less permanent objects and certainly not ephemeral ideas…

      I also feel the clues have nothing to do with ideas people pick up from his books..
      Like the double omegas or rainbows or crescent moons..

      • Hi dal – There’s that ephemeral word again 🙂 “Bah! Humbug!”, said Scrooge. Tis the season.., but I don’t think JC.L would say that. I LOVE all these searchers who are willing to share their search stories. Buddah would understand that concept. Thank you for that inspiring, well written account, JCL. And thank you, dal, for making this amazing experience possible on this blog 🙂

    • Thats a great solve J C L . And Texas Gold, tell us why, because I won’t say why I may go back to that area some day.

      • Sorry for the late reply musstag. I believe the TC will be in a place where natural disasters and man made disasters won’t affect the TC. Or at least give the TC the best possible way to survive and still be found. A dam is also a “structure”. The poem and TC are not associated with a man made structure. And since that area has a dam and known major earth quake zones – i would hope FF would not put it in that direct vicinity of mudslides, boulders,dams (breaking), Heck..A whole lake was made from that last earth quake back in the late 50’s – I believe date is correct) So all the above reasoning for me to be else where! Just my thoughts! But hey – I believe the HOB means 2 things that have to be followed…lol! So you might want to do the exact opposite of what i do or think. Like in Seinfeld – George did everything opposite! Great episode.

        • FF has also said he’s got his own grammar and sometimes makes words up. I know this is pure conjecture, but I’ve been harboring a suspicion that, of all the hints, that FF may get grief –once the chest is found– for using the word “structure”. He was referring to graveyards and outhouses around that time. I think his “structure” might be what I’d call a “building”.

          All that to say: I wouldn’t give up on dams , fences, boardwalks or bridges just yet.

          • Maybe! I believe a “Structure” he refered to as a man made one – IMHO. With that being said I do think that there are natural structures(ie:natural bridge, Devils Tower) that were made by nature own carpenter! So by saying that ………… I believe he was reffering to man made “anything structure”. Sometimes I am clear as mud in my thoughts. Hope you get the gist of what i was trying to type. And as far as words he makes up – well he did not use the word widget or Frazzal doodle to use in his poem. Which would be worthless for anyone to figure out the clues. Just my thoughts.

  14. Perhaps we should figure out what a “clue” is first. Some would assume that the obvious would be; something that helps in finding something or solving a mystery. On the flip side; a “clew” is a ball of string, yarn, or cord…. We (searchers) know that the last implies, or may imply, a whole different approach if you relate it to the mystery of forest’s missing ball of string. Just sayin’… I guess you could say either” a clue is a clew” or ” a clew is a clue”. It’s all still a BIG wad !!

    • Hi ken – I found a children’s book locally that told a story about a little boy who was stuck in his bedroom, because he was sick; his Mom said he had to stay in bed. So the little boy devised all kinds of inventions, involving a ball of string, that he could use to play and do interesting things, while still remaining in bed. One was attaching string to darts he could throw at a target on the wall, then reel them back in to his bed. I can think of many things I want to use a ball of string for, when I resume the hunt this Summer…or, maybe..in October? 🙁 Oh, and now I know how to calculate the surface area of that Largest Ball of Twine..if the diameter is 42ft., then the radius is 21ft. And the surface area is therefore 4 x pi x radius squared, which equals 4 x 3.1416 x 441 = who has a calculator? I don’t have a clew what that equals.

  15. To all,

    I respect all of the opinions here. It is good conversation and very thought provoking.

    However, I believe the treasure is in New Mexico. Warm waters is the key and research will help solve this.

    YNP is a great distance and would be somewhat difficult for Forrest to verify if the treasure is still where he put it.

    Imagine any of us trying to get away for a short while to check on something without raising suspicions of our family or friends. Especially if the distance is great. This seems to be the situation Forrest would be in if he was verifying the treasure is still where he put it if it was in YNP.

    Plane trip or long drive, rental car, baggage, etc for a trip to YNP. It seems like a trip to YNP would be a sure give away to someone close to Forrest yet this appears not to have been the case.

    One more thing. I believe Dollarbill has some of the poem figured out.

    My money is in New Mexico!

    • NM is good too, just too many possibilities for me. 107 years would be a short time for considering NM. Some is better than none, thanks. 🙂

    • If I was sick and decided to hide a chest where I plan to die later, It would be within a days drive of my house. If I was determined to stash 20 lbs of treasure, I would want to put it somewhere I could get to relatively quickly in case I changed my mind. The human psyche is powerful, and stash spots are almost always along a path travelled frequently by the stasher…of course, Forrest probably recognized this human trend, and may have stashed it elsewhere on purpose…But I firmly believe the treasure is in New Mexico or Colorado, perhaps in the four corners region…or in the Rio Grande Canyon somewhere. These clues are timeless…they needed to stand the test of time to be helpful in 1000 or 10,000 years, so wwwh needs to be a place like the continental divide, or the Rio Grande Canyon, or a national border than can be looked up even if the nation goes away…like the Colorado/New Mexico border….pibthoB needs to be a geographic feature or an historic person, place, or thing. From there its no place I can figure out…

      • Michael D – Didn’t someone say that Forrest has a bronze statue, right in front of the entrance, at his home in Santa Fe? Is it a Brown bronze statue? Could that be “pibthoB”? I think it depicts Forrest playing marbles, if I remember correctly. I guess he could get to THAT relatively quickly, if he changed his mind! Would Forrest, then, be considered to be a “historic person”? Good thing he has a security guard on the property! 🙂

    • But….technology?

      Ex: I can, right now, via my PC, remote control (pan 180 degrees, tilt, zoom) a webcam that’s in Yellowstone (Roosevelt arch)– for free!!!! (Yellowstone .net). I can tell you there’s 15 people at old faithful at 101pm mt time today, and that the guy in the red parka is heading back to the lodge, and a woman in black is adjusting the stocking cap on one of her two kids. And meanwhile, I’m in my breakfast nook in Seattle.

      So I say: Imagine what a eccentric artdealer/treasure hunt fanatic millionaire could rig up.

      Anyway, best luck!!
      Tarheel, you go ahead and limit yourself to NM, and I’ll stay on the MT/WY, and we’ll both keep one another out of competition ( from our respective points of view). 😉

      • Mapsmith – speaking of the stocking cap on the lady’s kid, did you know that it is modeled after the Phrygian cap? I have been laughing here as everyone wears them to keep warm or to look like elves working at the coffee shops for the holidays. I have one with a Chaos logo that looks more like the Phrygian caps the 7th Cavalry wore. And I stopped at the Pawn Shop recently to see a Silver Walking Liberty Dollar; the Goddess (?) pictured is wearing a Phrygian cap, too. I like to use technology to look things up, but I would never SPIE on anyone online 😉

    • Tarheel – Do you think that Grizz monitoring camera that I just saw in Dal’s BBC story of his adventure with their crew last August is really used by Forrest to monitor US??? Maybe there are several along the trail. Or there are other gizmos to monitor Brown Bats that he uses, maybe???

        • Stephanie – It was in Dal’s story of his trip last August with the BBC folks…in the pictures he posted.

          • E*,

            Maybe this is just a big government experiment on how sane people go crazy looking for a fabled treasure? Could be Forrest is a secret agent man and we are all just pawns in this experiment?

            Why else would there be cameras?

            One never knows.

  16. saw an article about the early transcontinental airmail path. it consisted of large concrete arrows that still remain, crossing wy. at 10 mile intervals.
    Fenn, the pilot, might be aware of these.
    They have remained since the 20s, and the rural ones may last indefinitely.
    Seems like a perfect blaze!

    • Emmett, thats an awesome bit of info! Thank you for sharing that. What interesting things we are learning on the chase. 🙂

    • Emmett : great find!!! Here’s a map: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Transcontinental_Air_Mail_Map_1924.jpg.

      By 1927, there were 1500 of these beacons, stretching from NY to SF. Plus LA, LV, SLC and ATL
      See also the morse code sequence: WUVHRKDBGM

      • “When undertaking very hard routes keep directions by good methods”..what the acronym, WUVHRKDBGM, stands for, so pilots could determine which beacon they were flying over. Thanks Emmett and Map!

  17. PTN, since I am getting confused on the correct reply button to hit, I am starting at ground zero. The B-52’s are currently refueling, so you are safe salting your driveway, for awhile anyway. I don’t know why the pink clouds, they were instructed to use blue. But pink works almost as well.

    Don’t be jealous of dal, it’s like I am still a virgin. You know what I mean! 🙂

      • I just can’t imagine where you find all of these web sites? Kinda scary! You must have a site for every occasion. I need to watch my backside or I will lose my virginity! *scared to death face*

    • Bloody Marys…Virgin Marys…I am thinking of that famous Queen again…I am learning Poker from HER and not the queen who ruled for a very short time before her 🙂

  18. The last time there was a Nine Clues discussion on this blog it ended up getting shut down because people couldn’t stay remotely close to topic…just saying…

    • dal, we understand that some of us take advantage of your site with trivial fun. Some of us cite comments that only we understand. Some of us try to mislead your guests. Some of us just like to see our words of wisdom posted for all to read. Only a few of us say anything worthwhile about any one post. Your frustration is recognized, but your patience, your fairness, your experiences, and your sense of humor are what are mostly appreciated by all. Have a Bloody Mary! *caring face*

      • Sorry…posted the same note twice because I could’t figure out where I was on the page…
        This is an animated discussion..

      • I know what you mean about some posting words of wisdom, know one but the poster knows what they mean, or cares. So many trying to be “witty” and smart and make sense only to themselves. Some claim not to be on the hunt at all, but enjoy reading their own posts, to fill in the empty space of time in their lives. Not me, I am hunting, dreaming, hoping….for a treasure….for fun and because I need it.

  19. The Yellowstone region is tempting..
    Montana above Yellowstone has a fascinating arrangement for WWWH..
    The Colorado Plateau has the same kind of warm rivers arrangement..
    New Mexico has it’s advantages
    Wyoming has several different but likely waters halting as well..
    I’ve investigated warm waters halting for three years now..
    Everyone falls apart for me somewhere down the list of clues…

    If I was ever on the right one I will not know it til it has been found and the puzzle revealed..

    Hopefully by me…

      • Mapsmith – I just LOVE your gravatar shown above! I’m taking a break from my other book, to read the one I found yesterday, at the book exchange at a friend’s office. It is called, “Mark of the Grizzly”, by Scott McMillion, and features the following quotes on the cover and reverse of the book: “This deft and gracefully written book is more terrifying than a shelf full of Stephen King novels”…and, “I thought I knew about safe travel in bear country. I didn’t. I only knew the rules.” – Tim Cahill, author and editor-at-large, Outside. And, from one of my favorite authors, responsible for the book and subsequent movie, “Legends of the Fall” (in which Brad Pitt’s character dies by being attacked by HIS nemesis, the Grizz), this quote: “This book should be obligatory for backcountry travelers who wander into the land of the grizzlies, for it must be considered theirs or they will vanish.” I read the first chapter last night, about a gruesome and grizzly Grizz attack, witnessed by Buck Wilde, in the Glacier National Park area. I will NOT be going “alone in there” like he did! He did force himself to go right back into the same area, though,.. alone,..after the events surrounding this story culminated. I guess I will have to “Buck Up” and face MY nemesis, if I want to find Forrest’s treasure!

  20. The best spot I had I was the first..I could follow clues to within a few hundred feet starting at the place where warm waters halt on the Rio Grande at the NM/CO border..

    • Dal, I was there too…and I want to go back! EVERYTHING points to that place again and again. I truly believe its either there or at the confluence of the Red…

  21. Hi all. Not sure where to post this so Dal feel free to move it,

    Here is my take on this. I think the book gives you insight into the boy becoming a man and the things that molded him along the way. For example Tea With Olga. Red tea represents the building of his reputation and becoming a successful business man. All the stories from his youth and how they shaped him into the man he has become. They drank red tea because he had not yet achieved his fame and fully built his reputation. The black tea represents his career and his life’s purpose and his success. The changing of the teas shows how his and Olgas relationship changed over the years and he has grown as a person and businessman. The green tea represents family and his roots and what is really important in life. The change to green tea and her last request was to show him what is really important in life. You always come back to family and it does not matter the wealth in money but the wealth in family. This is what the chase is suppose to be about. Bringing families back together and building memories. Money is not everything and you cant take that with you but memories last a life time and when you are gone they continue on with the ones you love and hopefully they continue to build them and so on and so on.

    We all have this book in us. Most of us get stuck on black tea and forget to drink the green. Family does not have to be blood. Look at the relationships that have developed just from this blog and others. Jeremiah has the right idea. The solving of this will take a group effort (extended family). It will go through the tea process. First the building of our reputation and trust for each other.(red tea) Our journey through solving the poem (black tea) The end result of the realization that we have become more than just people working toward the end result that we are family and therefore we are in the WOOD. And family will stand the test of time.

    • tgavis – I just had to mention that the radio here at the club is now playing Led Zepplin’s “Ramble On”; the lyrics of which is based on J.R.R. Tolkien’s “The Hobbit” or “The Lord of the Rings”. I liked your comment “We all have this book in us”. Forrest was inspired to write his memories of family and adventures by reading a J.D. Salinger book, which he mentioned in one of his books. “In the WOOD” can also mean “morally upright”, which the members of every family hope to be…at least I hope they do.

  22. I wrote above asking if the it was important to even understand what the nine clues in the poem really are…
    Maybe it is not…unless there is a misdirection in the poem…and I don’t believe there is..Forrest has even said that there is no misdirection in the poem…

    If the poem is a set of directions…and I think it is…
    I am not certain that it matters if you find 9 directions or 11 directions…
    Since there is no misdirection they must all contribute somehow to finding the place where the chest is hidden..

    Correct???

    • I agree that it is not important whether or not there are nine clues. As long as someone’s interpretation of the entire poem takes them to where they feel the chest is hidden, the number of clues within does not matter, directional clues or not. Just one opinion though. 🙂

    • I agree dal. I don’t think it matters if it is nine or twentynine. If you follow the poem you will get there. If you choose more than nine you might have a side trip but it will lead you back to where you were suppose to be.

      I believe you have to begin where warm waters halt. The first stanza: As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold,
      Is referring to him going into the vault where the treasure started. I can keep my secret where. He only knows the true place it is hidden. And hint of riches new and old. He can talk about the hunt and riches new referring to all of our new memories we are making and the reliving of his old memories.

      Every step you take has to stand the test of time. It had to be there in the beginning, now and the future otherwise the finding of the chest will be accidental.

    • Dal: thoroughly agree with poem clues vs book inspirations, and also that the poem ought not include any misdirections. Though, I still wonder if rather than sequential route , he’s drawing us an x on the map: two routes intersecting OR a knot of trails or routes giving us concentric circles – within which we’ll find the paydirt search zone.

      • Map-
        Wondering is allowed..lol…
        but that concept is so difficult to grasp that I decided only two or maybe three people in the known universe could comprehend it and I am not one.

        • I’m okay with that. (More so if the 2 people that can follow it are mr Fenn and myself). 😉

      • I agree about the concentric circles. It is great when the poem works from an aerial view right down to the minute details surrounding the chest…and at every concentric circle in between.

      • I think this way of thinking is considered “missing around” for which Forrest said he did not do when writing the poem and that its straight forward (way of thinking) instead.

        • And yet, take a look at the TS Eliot quote he gave one interviewer: (in answer to “do you still feel your poem will lead someone to the treasure?”

          Fenn wrote (direct quote here): (the person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental. ) TS Eliot said.

          We shall not cease from our exploration
          And at the end of all our exploring
          Will be to arrive where we started
          And know the place for the first time

          *If* you take it as a hint, the looping or crossover path sounds downright sensible….

          • Mapsmith – Oh, now I get it…he was talking about THE POEM..oh…thank you! And thanks again for the “loop”.

      • Mapsmith – Your “knot” comment made me think of symbols…and King Solomon…and that great red and gold butterfly on the shadow blog 🙂

  23. Forrest has said that all you need is the poem. In an interview he said about the second stanza, that sounds like 3 or 4 clues to me don’t you think? in another interview, he said you know wood is mentioned in the poem….( These were video interviews with links on this site with a female interviewer.)
    IMO, Since the poem is all you need , it has to tell all, so the 1st stanza is just telling you that no one else was given the info of where the treasure was hidden. I did think that 6th stanza was just a pep talk…
    Yes the poem needs to stand the test of time but there is no way to achieve that, imo, the mention of wood, if related to a tree out in the wilderness, being a clue doesn’t meet the test of time.
    Forrest has recently said that the poem is straight forward, that he was not playing ‘games’ when he wrote it, and he has said before to not over think it. Do the word clues translate to numbers… I don’t see how they could, if they did it would make it much easier I think..

    • I agree musstag. The second stanza has three clues in it to me. It helped me by listening to ff read the poem over and over. I tried to listen good. I also agree that in the wood can not mean trees, it would not stand the test of time. I believe all you need is the poem. The book gives you insight into how the boy became a man and what life means to him. I think there is subtle hints in the book but they are not out right clues that you must have to solve the poem.

      At first I thought it might cover a great distance. For example starting in Yellowstone and ending in Santa Fe but then he said the first two clues had been solved but they went right past the rest and did not know how close they were to the treasure. Therefore this thinking can not be correct.

      I have trouble with going alone in there meaning that is where the treasure is hidden. Since he has said he would throw his body over the treasure and let the sun rot his bones. Hard to be inside of something for this to happen. (I don’t remember the exact quote)

      I feel the poem stands on its own with no hidden agendas. It will take lots of thought and research both mental and physical and when it is found eventually we will all be laughing at the solution because we all have probably over thought it. Remember a kid will probably be the one to find it.

      • I thought it could be from Yellowstone to NM as well. I still thought that was possible till today…I’m not so sure it is anymore. I thought even if he says people went right by it…many searchers from NM go up there and come back down. So they would have gone right by it.

      • tgavis – If a cave has an opening that lets the sunlight into it, that statement Forrest made still works…over time 🙂

      • Good, then the “kid” who finds it can do all the climbing, with the clew in hand, tgavis! Or maybe Forrest meant that we will all become so child-like during this adventure, that a “kid” will find it. My inspiration is Huckleberry Finn 🙂

    • musstag – Regarding the mention of wood, I loved that tree with snow that Forrest posted…it made me think of the Tree of Life, which was the subject of a beautiful crimson red block print that my younger cousin gave to me when she visited here. She used to follow the Grateful Dead and sell her jewelry at their concerts. Although I didn’t model for the print, it shows a female figure that happens to look exactly like me, with arms held high in that shadow butterfly’s “victory” pose, with branches and leaves forming the arms and the roots at the feet extending into the earth. I do so love trees!

      • E*,
        Interesting choice of words. I love trees as well. If only they could speak to us the stories they could tell. Paintings speak to me. I often wonder what the artist was thinking and feeling when creating his/her art. Do you ever watch Duck Dynasty. They really do hunt for ducks!

  24. I am one of the few that agree that the first stanza is the first clue. If there are still people who disagree is because they have not solved the book hints. If you do not solve this first clue, you might as well look for the chest in Russia.

    • RC-
      But how is it a clue..?
      I see the following ideas expressed in the first stanza:

      1. He went to the place he hid the chest all alone so don’t bother asking his daughters where it is and he didn’t need help putting it there.
      2.He won’t tell us where it is but he’ll talk about the cool things that are in the chest and the adventure to excite people to go looking for it.

      That’s all I see..
      I think of the first stanza as a preface to a book..
      Its purpose is to provide background to what comes next..

      • Dal you missed the most important clue of the whole book, and poem. You would have to read the book again Dal. Do no think of the first stanza as being what he put in the chest, but think of it as Mr. Fenn telling us where to go to start looking for the chest.

        • RC-
          I suspect you are writing simply to see your own text on the screen. Give us content. What are you talking about?

          • I don’t think they want to give their spot away and it sounds like at one time they almost did.

          • dal this is what I think about the first stanza and I know a little bit more about the poem then when I first started when I thought that hob was a camel lol but if my wife sent me to get her favorite ring from one of her jewelry boxes I would want to know what the jewelry box looks like before I take off to get it and in my opinion that’s what the 1st. stanza is showing me

        • Agree with RC: stanza 1 is ripe with meaning. Ex: describes the search area, or informs the other clues. ((If I explain , I give (one of) my entire solutions away though, that I haven’t scouted yet. Sorry. And yes, explaining one clue CAN give away the whole thing, in some cases. I’ve seen it happen on other hunts!))
          But how about I offer a hypothetical analog to make a good point?; Let’s say I think much of the poem means a “stream or river in a cave “, Stanza one perhaps tells me it’s a cave that’s only big enough for one person, with “alone in there”, okay – there are lots of oneman caves though. So I read stanza 1 some more and “new and old” maybe references a particular mountain : like Something that can both be old and new: Renaissance Peak, or Mt Phoenix, …or somewhere that deals in old & new riches, like the Colorado Mint. Now I’ve got a reasonable cross-reference, to check against the other 8 sentences. If it checks, I might consider myself in a warm trail. That’s PI’s work, so why not?

          Of course, I think stanza 1 is clue 1. Maybe it’s not.

          • Hey Map, I think you are one of the few people that knows where the treasure is, at least, generally speaking. Am I right?

          • RC: don’t know. At all. The first thing to learn about wisdom: we know nothing, and we’ll never know everything. 🙂

            But
            here’s hoping you’re right. 😉

            I think the legal ponderings post gives away my strategy (darn you, dal)(kidding); so I’ll go ahead and tip my hand to everyone a bit:
            I have faith that The 9 Clues/ the poem MUST lead to a real treasure we can really keep. That being so, it needs to be either in a legally disputable place, or on private property where FF has arranged permission (or IS the permission grantor). If its private property, then my hat is off to team NM, since the odds favor something near FF. if IT (the treasure) is in a legal briar patch, the ONLY perfect shade of grey area in the Rockies are the western and northern borders of YNP. I happen to live within a half day drive of those zones, so , naturally, I favor YNP borders. 🙂
            Where exactly…? Hmmm. Not saying just yet. Not until I’ve exhausted the ideas. 😀

          • I think he strongly believes that we should have rights on BLM land and other federal or state land and that would be protected for 10000 years. He can’t have an agreement with someone personally for that long and someone could put up a fence next week or do something to come across it by chance and he said you can’t do that.

          • Stephanie, see my response to Marilyn z : I don’t think FF said the poem was made for a 10,000 year hunt. I think his 1000,/10,000 comment, which isn’t a clue nor a hint, IMHO, is about the nature of archaeology ; the treasure and chest will outlive all of us, and just like those first arrowheads he found, eventually someone may stumble on/discover the treasure just as FF discovered so many treasures himself, initially. I doubt the poem (staying in topic;) ) has been designed by an architect to have the ability to function for 10,000 yrs. 😉
            I’ll admit; Whether its on legal land might not be a concern for an old Indiana Jones guy like mr Fenn. But if it were found in his lifetime and some court took it from the finder , I think he’d be disappointed. So I think odds are the poem leads us to a spot where courts would be disadvantaged.

            But property lines and land status come and go in a matter of decades and centuries. – geology though changes on a much slower scale, even rivers take forever to change course or go dry. —this is one of the reasons ‘hollow in a log’ is no longer on my ‘most likely solutions’ list, and ‘cave’ is right next to the top. 🙂

          • I think the 10000 years works regardless because of another thing he has said…and that’s, that no one will just come across it. So what is protected from being messed with? Heck in Yellowstone I was reading at one time that they don’t even want to put up cell towers, because they don’t want things messed with. I also find it interesting that he was so upset about the NM fish and wildlife arresting that guy for digging. Why would he be so upset about that if it was something he had looked into and figured was ok?

          • I have a photo on my phone of the Tetons, which look to me like the Misty Mountain where Smaug lives (it was actually modeled after the Matterhorn, according to that “Hobbit” book I found). But I am afraid of heights, so I will NOT be hung with a new rope to find the secret keyhole in the late evening on Durin’s Day to get into THAT mountain to find the treasure trove!

        • I like Trout as in Brown Trout. If you read a river runs through it near the end when he catches the big fish his father and brother are on the side of the river watching him cast into the water. The author talks about a big rock in the river the bugs and flies enter into the living room and right into the home of the trout. Where the big fish really are. Of course that was one of his favorite books. The correct rock in the correct river would be a favorite place for a hole for a fisherman and a good place for the “home of Brown”.

          • The fishing guide who consulted on the filming locations for that movie, and who wrote the book, “Shadowcasting”, had a much better location picked out for that scene. Robert Redford apparently overruled him. I want to find THAT fly fishing hole!

      • Dal,
        It doesn’t say over there out there through there or under there….it says IN THERE…and that I believe is a clue as to how and where the chest is hidden…

        • Michael-
          I say I’ll be in the woods or I’ll be in the desert or in the basin or any other number of common places I could be at…no difference between being IN the woods or IN the cave. So tell me more..

          • But dal, if you are IN the greestone cave, even 1,000-10,000 years from now, it might change shape and grow more moss, but it would still be there. The woods may not still be there. Hopefully you will not be IN there with Smaug or Gollum!

      • I want to discuss a thought on the home of Brown…What if it is capitalized so we know its a NOUN…IE a person, place or thing…If Brown is a NOUN then we can start to narrow it down…Brown bear, brown trout brown mountain etc..OK…So What if Home of Brown is a cave full of bats….Little Brown Bats…You could be at the correct wwwh, the correct canyon, etc…but if you aren’t there at dusk when the bats reveal the cave entrance…you have little chance of locating the opening.my argument is that put in below the home of Brown could be a Location…I put the chest in a hole below the home of Brown…So now it also becomes the BLAZE….The marker left behind is a colony of bats…They often inhabit the same cave for thousands of years!! If you find the Blaze and don’t look quickly down, the bats are gone and you missed your chance until Dawn when they return…This is why you need a flashlight….Or am I just too high?

        • I agree. The only two animals with the name of brown, native to the area, are Brown Trout, and Brown Bat. Cant be Mr. Browns house, because its a temporary structure. could be Browns lake, Brown mountain, ect.
          Brown bats live in abandoned structures, under bridges, as well as caves.

          • Emmett-
            There is more than one Mr. Brown that lived in the area. Even though some of the structures are no longer there in some cases the history of the various Browns that lived in or near Yellowstone remains. Traditions, historical records, legends and guidebooks all point to many homes of Brown inside and outside of the park. So I would not rule out home of Brown not being a place where Browns once lived…including humans and other animals..

          • Clue 3:
            I’d say there are a lot more ‘Brown’ animals Native to Rockies than 2: Brown bear (grizzlies)!; brown thrasher, brown creeper, brown rat, brownheaded cowbird,
            And 2 kinds of brown bat: eptesicus fuscus and myotis lucifugus.
            Not to mention nonanimals like Morchella mushrooms (Latin maurus means brown).

            But my fav Brown is Arthur William.

          • Then there’s the unobvious like a field of Brown Eye’d Susans or a type of rock that starts with Brown. He would know about rocks from his marble making and arrowhead finding.

          • last post for me. BLACK eye susans, grizzilies are not known as brown bears(another species). Home of Brown Thrashers(really-are u serious) how about brown beavers–brown cranes, brown squirrels, ect
            Yes there are 2 species of Brown bats, big and little.
            Dal- u are right, but if the home of Brown is to last 1000 years, it must be called Browns ______. Ferry, Lake, Mine, butte, coulee, or at the very least the home of a famous brown ie. Molly Brown. Not Charlie Brown, or maybe he did live in Beaverhead county. –

          • Steph, I hadn’t thought of BrownEye Susan’s. nice one!
            Emm: not kidding. I only included species with brown in the official species name — brown thrashers are a particular /distinct species of bird known to make a home in the Rockies. Put in below a nest, or better yet, a known nesting grove, is a reasonable read, IMO. So is a cave under a brown bear den. In any case, home of Brown with a capital B was a brilliant mindblender clue on FF’s part, wasn’t it?!

          • Thanks Map. I saw a huge field of them in Cimarron that made me realize that they would easily be overlooked and probably around for thousands of years. He also talks about the flowers and their colors.

          • And didn’t Forrest and Peggy surprise their city with a free garden of flowers ? They love & know flora, for sure.

        • Mapsmith and Michael D – I really like the idea of a Brown Creeper nest (do you, Wolf?), and I wanted to mention that Travertine Marble happens to be Brown; a great source of that is right near someone’s favorite Brown person’s historical home in Yellowstone. That stuff moves around a lot and could be a good reason to have to move your home when it gets unruly over time 😉

          • MS & MD – Oh, and the Brown Creeper’s call sounds like it is saying “See!”. And that favorite Brown person with the historical home also founded and/or runs the Yellowstone Institute out in Lamar Valley, where you can sign up for courses and watch the wolves!

        • Michael D – my AAA magazine I read today had a great story about caves formed by huge boulders in the Pinnacles National Monument, CA, which moved to locations over narrow crevasses with streams when plate tectonics triggered their movement. Bats were mentioned, too. Da Vinci put himself in solitary confinement while imprisoned to study bats. Does Forrest like to study bats, too? Like those Brown Bat species you mentioned? Someone I met said someone in the area I stayed was studying bats.

          • Michael D – There was a discussion on Forrest’s blog about gunpowder, dynamite, saltpeter, and arsenic, etc. I remember seeing online that Bat Guano can be used as an ingredient for one of those, anyway. I wonder if Forrest liked to blow things up at his secret hidey spot, when he was a kid, when no one was looking? 🙂

    • RC – Could any of the “riches new and old” in the chest actually BE From Russia?? Where did the emerald jewelry piece originate, I wonder? Does anyone know? My theory is that some of the gold nuggets may have come from a mining area that had one of the world’s largest gold strikes, 100 years before I was born.

  25. if forrest said that the poem is all you need to get you there – then I would take him on his word

    • The poem is all you need frank not only does it have the 9 clues but it has lots of hints to verify your location. It seems that many have gotten the first 2 clues correct but get thrown off with I think it’s the Home of Brown clue.

  26. I know there are a few searchers who have deciphered about the first 5 clues, but they do not elaborate on their findings because they do not want to hang themselves. I had started to let you guys, and gals know on some of my findings, but only a few people would listen. I believe I have solved all the clues , but it is still difficult to find the treasure. As far as why I am blogging about it instead of physically looking for it, is because it is too cold out there for anybody to find it in these conditions.

    • RC we might be in the same location ounce u find the correct location I have told many here too it still is very difficult finding the location is the easy part locating the treasure is another story lol

    • RC – Too cold and dangerous driving conditions also…at least that’s what Diggin’ Gypsy’s story and photos showed us for her location. If I ever hang myself (when I get over my fear of heights), it will be with a new rope. I have officially relinquished my “treasured insights” attitude that I held onto for so long. Therefore, I have nothing to lose. So just share away everyone! Hokahey! 🙂

    • They seemed to want it to be kept as a surprise..So I am honoring that by not saying what it is..
      I didn’t find out about it until my poster arrived.

  27. Ok lets look at the poem. BEGIN where warm waters halt. That’s the starting spot 1st clue. CEASE means END that’s the end of the clues so look quickly down your quest to Cease is your 9th clue

        • J.R. – “When will it be finished?”, said Pope Julius to Michaelangelo in “The Agony and the Ecstasy” by Irving Stone (?). Charlton Heston played Michaelangelo and Rex Harrison played the Pope. I wonder if Michaelangelo said to himself, “the end is drawing nigh” to get through the painting of the Sistine Chapel? That was a seemingly endless, grueling project for him.

        • he end is EVER drawing nigh Yall left out Ever… To me that means, ‘A’ ‘END’ is coming, it has nothing to do with anyone of us being near the chest,…. its A End Ever drawing nigh regardless of where we are.

          • Yes map the end is ever drawing nigh I kno exactly wat it means it doesn’t mean your close to the chest but something is getting close to the end before u go up your creek if I told every one here step by step clue by clue everyone would be like he’s absolutely right it all makes perfect sense mapsmith this place is a beautiful area hope to go back up soon

          • musstag, mapsmith and J.R. – I think e-is-for-ever…drawing nigh…since e is an infinite series, like pi, and is a mathematical constant. That should last for 1,000-10,000 years alright! I will outlive even Smaug! HaHaHaHaHa! *Evil*E*Smiley*Face*

    • J.R. Be careful not to overlook or discount the word ‘BUT’ in the next line of the poem; IMO it is adding one last step for pinpointing where the chest is at exactly or what you need to do to locate it.

      • That is correct JCM but tarry scant with marvel gaze just take the chest and go in peace is exactly what takes you to the chest But it is real hard to crack lol on one of my other thought I have just take the chest and go in peace as my ninth clue but no one sees to agree I have a few ways to read it. But either way is should atleast take you to the area.

    • Hi, J.R. I have been researching, and searching for the treasure for about 10 months now. At first I thought I would find it in Cleveland, New Mexico in Mora County. I went to the top of the mountain to Middle Fork Lake and after I hiked @ 14 miles realized there was no way Mr. Fenn could have hiked all the way to the top, let alone with at least 20 lbs of weight. I came back from the hike tired, hungry, and scared since I had seen a blonde black bear that must have weighed at least 800 lbs. I had never been so scared in my life. So, I came back home and promised myself I would find the treasure. I have been going through every word in Mr. Fenn’s TTOTC book and I know with confidence that the location I have been on is the only right spot. Now I can tell you and the other searchers that WWWH is not the first clue and when the treasure is found, then and only then, you and everybody on this blog will know that WWWH was never the first clue. Read the book many times until you find it. It is there you just have to be patient.

      • So RC, when are you heading up north to prove your theory???

        I should be there (at a few of my favorite solves/theories) around July 1st if I play my cards right (minus the joker).

        1st stanza, specifically 2nd and 3rd lines, are clue 1 , in my somewhat crazy opinion.

        Speaking of crazy and poem clues, ( line 23) did you all know that an old meaning of the phrase “in the wood” is “confused; mad; mentally scattered; lost in one’s mind- often involving love or lust”?
        Dates from what I can tell, all the way back to Shakespeare – some lit professors think it’s why so many of his comedies feature girls & boys ‘in the woods’ of Arden, Athens, etc. plus, he loved using the puns: woo’d vs wood vs would.
        🙂

        • Yeah! July seems the best time of the year for searching but that means most people will be searching at the same time. February is the month for me. It is the month with the least precipitation, and the snow has not melted yet meaning the body of waters will be at their lowest, and probably at their coldest too.

          • And you can take a snowmobile to go fishing during the high altitude spawn of those really pretty trout..and stay somewhere to enjoy the gorgeous view…I am jealous, RC! Just leave the chest there for me, Ok? Sure…, the Grizzes will be hibernating ..yeah, that’s right! 🙂

        • Yes, the odd meaning for in the wood….thats a good one.
          As I have gone alone in there , might be the valley of death, for Forrest at least, for him in 1986 or 1988, or what ever yr that was that he was told he did not have long to live. (Mountains and Rivers bottoms, remember what he said about those)

        • So, Mapsmith, the last two lines of the poem could translate to: If you are brave and INSANE, I give you title to the gold. Great! I’ll take it! Thanks a bunch, Forrest! BTW – I wasn’t insane until after many months of participating in this search 🙂

      • RC maybe we aren’t in the same area cause the start for me is begin it where warm water halts the first stanza he is just hinting of the location that’s my opinion but there’s a lot of ways you can look at it but where warm waters halt is not located in the 2 current books

        • J.R. There is researching, and then there is researching. I can tell you for a fact that the first clue lies on the first stanza, and it tells everybody where to start the chase. Yes, I know the poem says “begin it where warm waters halt” but does that tell us an exact place where to look, or does it give us step number 2? It says to me, now that you have found the place begin your search where warm waters halt. The book is the key to solve where warm waters halt , but Mr. Fenn does not tell us directly, but in a tricky, and subtle way. If you pay attention to the book in a way that you have never paid attention to a book you will find out what I am talking about. Please do not judge me until you read the book too many times. I will tell you this, if you do not obsess about reading the book you will never find the clues , they are well hidden.

          • RC, confidence is required, but you coming on here and saying to everyone that you have discovered the key to the poem is kinda like me telling you you are too late dude, cause I already found it….and I am not going to tell you where! If it were true, I would be in possession of the chest, and if false, I would be an ass. Either way, others would view my message with some combination of disdain and obsessive curiosity…So out of the kindness of your heart dear sir, share your knowledge, or stop dangling carrots, you are driving me insane…I cannot read this book again or I may go cross eyed…Give me a hint would ya!!!

          • Agree with RC –clue 1 lies in stanza / sentence 1 AND I believe that it gives you a specific geographic region/locale in MT or WY. Not the start of the path, but a 3 mile x 3 mile zone to which you may apply other clues.

            Of course, it could totally be wrong. (…That’s true of everyone’s theories!)

    • Robby – Sherlock Holmes was a pretty good detective, too. But I liked Watson, his Wingman, the best. Did you know that the actor by the last name of Cumberbatch, who played in that recent “Sherlock Holmes” movie (and who also played in those great vampire movies with “Edward”and “Bella”) is the voice of Smaug? He was mesmerizing in that role.

  28. This is pretty good dialog. I just think we need to post what we are willing to tell or want to ask others about or what others think. It does NO good to say , well I can’t say.
    I breaks up the mojo.

  29. Claiming 1/9th of the treasure: the first clue is: As I have gone alone in there: Goes alone in his airplane or plane – but with an I it is PLAIN as in the Great Plains – shrinking the area of the search even further

    • Little S-
      Forrest gave up flying before 2010. So he did not fly alone in his plane to hide the treasure. Additionally, we know that he used a car to get to the place from where he began walking to hide his treasure.

      • HI DAL, It’s a suggestion to explain – I am not saying he used his plane – I am saying he has gone alone in a plane, but “I” going in the plane changes Plane to PLAINE if you extract plane as a clue – but add “I” to it because “I” goes alone in plane to make it a plaine or a plain – or the great plains – and he can go into the great plains (land area) inside his car – and I am just saying that a clue could be extracted from that sentence in such a way. And if it is correct – and the party who is helped by this tip feels generous – I’d like a little compensation – If they don’t want to do 1/9th, I’d accept anything good. haha 🙂

      • Dal are you assuming he actually walked, and carried the treasure chest, or did Mr. Fenn say he walked with the treasure chest to the hiding spot? I know he walked back to his car because he said it.

        • My advice: never assume (makes something something out of u and me…)
          For all we know, he took a train to an airport, flew commercial to a major city, chartered a boat down river to a helipad, hire a private helicopter to a rental car outfit. After driving to a small resort town, he then walked to a moped rental, mopeded to his site, then reversed the process.
          And all he reported was “I laughed on the way back to the car”. This could still be a true statement. Partial but true.

          While this hypothesis has probably 4 steps too many, I think it’s equally unlikely he drove straight from his garage to the site. He wants people outdoors, in nature. I think the idea that the treasure is 500′ off a major highway is barking up the wrong (petrified ?) tree…,

          Besides: everything we need is in the poem. The extra bits like “I laughed all the way back to the car” are distractions IMO.
          As the Poem tells us he went in alone, I think , it means much of the trip is either a solo vehicle (bicycle?) or most likely, his own 2 feet. And don’t discount his range too much due to old age: Remember this is a former military man, one who stays active in outdoors and with archeology digs (heavy rocks and shovel work), who’s described himself (paraphrase) as a ’40 yr old man with 40 yrs experience’.

          • Map, I think we have to make some assumptions along the way to solving this treasure hunt. We need to listen to the people who have met Forrest and have seen how he walks, how his balance is, and one comment that struck me was that he had a bad back ( I do not remember who said that but I remember reading it). I also am making the assumption that he did not fly on a commercial airline (because of security issues) but drove a car himself. He did say a few times that he laughed when he walked back to the car. From listening to him and reading what others have written about him, I am making the assumption that he probably did not walk real far with the treasure chest and had to make 2 trips, probably with about 21 or so pounds each time. I’ll probably have to make a few more assumptions along the way but I’ll always try to base them on information gathered from what Forrest says, videos of him, and those who have met him. 🙂

          • Digging is hard work…Diggin’ Gypsy and I are both keenly aware of this. And I don’t just mean the physical act of digging. Research is digging, too. I appreciate the magnanimous gestures of each contributor who shares information on this blog. But I will also practice working out with my shovel, so I am not “alone in there” after dark with the Grizzes!

          • Map, I see this treasure hunting as a crime investigator sees a murder. I would like to solve the “murder” only by facts. Take for instance, I see in most blogs that Mr. Fenn said the treasure is more than 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe. When in fact he said ” The treasure full of gold and precious jewels is more than 66,000 links north of Santa FE.” Now, why does this make a difference? Can a simple interpretation change the course of your searching? Remember, Mr. Fenn said this was a clue.

      • ff:

        “It was fifteen years from the time that I got cancer until the time that I hid the treasure chest. Fifteen years.”

        “…that’s why I told people I hid the treasure chest when I was 79 or 80 years old, because I don’t want the exact date to be known because I’m afraid somebody will go check the rental car records and how many miles did Mr. Fenn put on the truck or the car, so I don’t answer those kinda questions. But shoot that person that sent in that email.”

        Halogetter

        • I think he was just playing about the rental car. He’s basically saying he would have taken one from Santa Fe to wherever and why would he do that if he has new cars? I mean why drive something you aren’t familiar with when you can afford to drive something you are?

          • He drove around for 15 years in a rental car trying to find a place to hide it? No seriously(because this is no joking matter)….what do you mean by saying 15 years in response to what I said?

          • Regarding the timing of hiding the chest, and possibly flying his plane to get to a car to get to it, and Forrest getting cancer. What year is it, 15 years after he got cancer?

            Halogetter

          • OK that’s a bit odd, because if it’s 15 years from when he had cancer(1988), then he would have hid it in 2003. I don’t know why, but for some reason I’m thinking the whole cancer treatment took him 3 years to get through before he was in remission. I don’t know if that’s correct…maybe Dal knows. I think the 15 years is more likely just how long it took him to finish the poem, but then he waited till 2009 or 2010 to hide it when he was 79 or 80.

          • Stephanie – I think he meant it took 15 plus years to formulate the treasure plan, and we have been all spending a very short time, comparatively, trying to decipher all things Forrest Fenn and treasure trove. That is daunting!

          • Forrest already told us elsewhere on this blog that he spent about 15 years on the poem but he did not hide it directly after the 15 years and the 15 years was not continuous. I think he gave the example of working on it for a few years and then he was sidetracked by another project (probably authoring books) and then back at the poem and then a different project for awhile.

        • I meant exactly this:

          “It was fifteen years from the time that I got cancer until the time that I hid the treasure chest. Fifteen years.”

          Coupled with the other quote regarding why he didn’t want people to have easy access to records about when he hid the chest, yes, it’s 2003. Or possibly any time between 2003 and 20010, if you accept the two statements as the brackets…

          Halogetter

          • This is what I think….he gets cancer in 1988. He spends 3 years getting well and thinking about this idea he has. Then it’s 2006 and he spends 6 months writing his book at some point between then and 2009. Then in 2009 or 2010 he decides it’s full enough and he goes to hide it.

          • Stephanie, My gut feeling tells me that treasure was hidden long before TTOTC was born. We need a psychic to call upon to know for sure. If you believe in that sort of thing.

          • I know that’s what he said, but he also said ” two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead”. So, who knew and who died?

          • I think it’s Eric Sloane, but who knows for sure. He’s also the one who wrote so many books. So that might be why he wrote about all those books.

          • I agree Stephanie, but Eric passed away in 1985. I bet he knew a lot. He was a good friend to Forrest as well as a mentor. His art is captivating. I have my eye on one painting in particular. Looking at his paintings and reading his books makes you feel as if you knew him. Very Very Cool Guy!

          • Good point Pam. So who died after 1988 or 1991 when he got through his treatment and after he had thought of this plan?

          • 79 or 80 but he turned 80 in August of 2010 and his book was released and the treasure announced in late September or early October of 2010..
            Always the possibility that he meant 79 or 80 in dog years…lol…

          • @Pam His mother passed away in 1999 I believe it was around mothers day by my math but double check on page 48 TFTW May 12, 1999

          • I dont really think it matters when he hid it. There probably wont be any history for anyone to follow.

            Yes William I agree it was a terrible time in his life. 🙁

          • Halo, I think the reason Mr. Fenn hid the treasure in 2003 is because of the drought in 2002, 2003. The rivers, lakes, were low in water levels. The best time to hid the treasure in the water.

          • Remember guys, People saw the chest live and in person sitting in his vault…When did they view it? This would help narrow down the timing of the stash….Not that it really matters when it was hidden.

        • Didn’t someone confirm that he said he hid the treasure chest first, left it there for a while, and then, when he found it undisturbed, he went back to place his treasures inside? Didn’t he find out he had cancer when he was 56 (1986)? So the 15 year date for the first trip could be 2001, then? Maybe I am mis-interpretting that quote, Halogetter…

          • E-
            I don’t believe he ever said that. You might be thinking of the quote where he said he made two trips and we know he was talking about the fact that it took him two trips from his car. Most likely the first trip was with the empty chest and the second was with the goodies. Each trip would add up to about 21lbs that he carried…42lbs total.

          • That had to be hard times from 1976-1988 he suffer the loss of his dad, brother, Eric Sloane and cancer so that much happening back to back would put any of us to think about our lives with clarity.

        • Halogetter – do you play the game “Halo 3”? I just looked that up today and it said something about “Master Chief”. Just curious…I don’t play games…and I think Forrest said he didn’t either…to hide the treasure, anyway 🙂

  30. lol I dont think posting an idea equates to a share of the treasure. Funny. 🙂
    When Forrest says we will earn the treasure thats what he means. It wont be as simple as walking over to it and picking up the box off the ground, in my opinion.

    • HI Deb, not to be disrespectful to your thoughts in anyway, but It took alot of imagination and hard work to come up with that as a possible clue, whether it is correct or not, no one knows but FF, and I think alot of the work is thinking and imagination. IMO.

      • Sorry, didnt mean to be disrespectful of your idea. If you want you can be disrespectful of me, I dont take it seriously. LOL I even laugh at myself, its all so funny to me. You have some very fine ideas, please ignore me.

        I too believe flying had something to do with the solve. 🙂

        Everyone has their own take on how, why, where it all will unfold in time. Its an awesome endeavor we all are working on.

  31. Clues are great – however without the key there useless. Find the exact location to start then the clues have value. Without a location there meaningless. Its a nice little poem! Great book seller!

    • Terence – do you think there are possibly two keys, like was depicted in that “Da Vinci’s Demons” cable series I watched? I think there were two in the “Angels and Demons” movie with Tom Hanks, too, right?

  32. Just a note about the Cancer Fund Raffle-
    The drawing will occur at 10AM at Collected Works in Santa Fe on the 7th. Suzanne Somers will be drawing the winning ticket out of Forrest’s old cowboy hat.

    There is some talk that a few other friends of Forrest’s will be there in support…possibly Valerie Plame…author of Fair Game: My Life as a Spy. Valerie is America’s favorite ex-CIA agent.
    Possibly Murray Gell-Mann who is a Los Alamos physicist and won the 1969 Nobel Prize in Physics and also the Albert Einstien Medal. He is the author of The Quark and the Jaguar.
    Unfortunately Renelle will not be able to attend because she will be in the middle of chemo therapy…and we wish her well..

    Please attend if you can…
    Toby will be there to film the event and he will post it as soon as possible afterwards..

    • Very interesting group of people. Somers, Plame, Gell-Mann…

      “The world of the quark has everything to do with a jaguar circling in the night.”

      -M. Gell-Mann

      Halogetter

    • Murray Gell-Mann? WOW! I plan on attending.

      “Fair Game” is the term used by one organized crime family to describe persecuting and harming anyone and everyone critical of their behavior.

  33. without a location the clues are useless which is why I believe the book has to give the hint to the starting location or at least narrow down the area. John Charles whatever = John Charles Frremont. why? The chapter John Charles is mentioned in is also about his Spanish class. put in John Charles Freemont and spanish in google and see what you get. Can this be the starting point? It is very interesting to me that this starting point goes through Taos NM.

    • When I meditated at 4:00am today, I realized that many of the schools I attended had names that could directly apply to the topic you mentioned above, mdc777. By the way, did you change your name recently from djjmciv?

      • Also, mdc777, I looked up some interesting historical stuff when I saw your screen name (I already knew something about 777). Someone named Giordano Bruno suffered the consequences when he didn’t follow the “golden rule for survival” back then: “Scire, tacere.” To know and keep silent. Yeah, I heard that (from my “The Club Dumas” book). Also, in the time of that famous Queen, Essex, one of her favorites and a poet, was tried and convicted that year for his failures in a crucial war with Ireland…and for a rebellion against her later, when he was set free. He also paid the ultimate price. Did I mention that axes were good to remove obstacles? There was a great movie, called “Anonymous”, that covered that story and lots of stuff about Shakespeare. And, that was still a bad year for Orlando Bloom’s character’s legacy from “The Kingdom of Heaven”.

        • E-
          If we ever play an historic trivia game I want to partner up with you…
          We should start a new section just for responses from you and call it the Archive of Gallactic Information…
          Impressive!!

          • Thank you, Dal. I do love to read historical fiction, and history certainly does repeat itself!

        • mdc777 – Speaking of Giordano Bruno,…THE restaurant, where I eat and drink a glass of red wine frequently, ran out of my favorite Poliziano “In Violas” Merlot selection. The sommelier-manager recommended a Washington “Bruno” Merlot instead, which is produced by a priest (the proceeds of which partly go to a non-profit). He LOVES all things italian, so he painted a beautiful picture of the Duomo in Florence (Medici territory), which is printed on the wine label. And didn’t someone say, probably MATT T on Forrest’s blog, that the Battle of Trenton occurred during the Revolutionary War in 1777? These historical connections start to get spooky after a while…

          • mdc777 – Correction: the FIRST Battle of Trenton took place after Washington crossed the Delaware River on December 26, 1776. The Second Battle of Trenton took place in Trenton, NJ, on January 2, 1777.

  34. wwwh

    Dal posted a comment on this thread above regarding a statement from Forrest which I find to be significant, but it slipped by without further comment. Here it is:

    “Forrest once told a searcher who suggested that the entire YNP could be the place where warm waters halt that he was wrong…
    That it was a specific place and not a region…”

    Dal said that he heard Forrest verbally responding to a searcher’s statement that YNP could be wwwh, and that’s how he remembered it.

    On the surface of it, Forrest’s comment is pretty simple. But it is very telling. wwwh = a specific place and not a region.

    I know that some searchers have considered the solution to wwwh to be a very large element, or something OTHER than a distinct place on a map. There have been concepts discussed about the solve to wwwh not being a physical place, and I’m sure other concepts not discussed.

    But if Forrest said that YNP was too large a region, and rather that wwwh was a specific place, then any large region, area, entity or otherwise non-specific place or NON-PLACE may be suspect as the solution to wwwh.

    It also brings into question the intent and definition of the word “place”. There are places that are not on a map, such as a place in your mind or in your heart, for example. But Forrest using “specific place” in response to a searcher’s mention of a physical region such as YNP appears to narrow it.

    I’d be interested in any thoughts regarding Forrest’s comment that Dal relayed.

    Halogetter

    • That comment struck me as being interesting too. I do not recall ever hearing or reading that comment anywhere, at least not in the last year or so. It would be an important statement for those individuals that have been thinking wwwh refers to the Continental Divide or some other large descriptive area. It seems to me that statement might refer to a very specific spot to start like the confluence of warm and cold water or ?. Sounds like a good hint! 🙂

    • Halo – I agree.
      I have one theory (of about 10 (haha!); 5 of which I’m hoping to explore in summer 2014 ), where several of the 9 clues , in sequence, narrows the search pattern. This one, beginning with line 5, which I call clue 2, brings you down to a grid about 3000’x3000′. (In this theory, Clue 5 narrows it to just a couple dozen square feet. )

    • Forrest’s reply lets us know it is not something like the continental divide, it isn’t the northern boundary line of NM. it isnt something like that. it isn’t an abstract solution or interpretation.

      i think some of the unusual conclusions that people believe for WWH, rather than just simply what it is, a specific geographical place, is the reason Forrest has made it clear that the poem is straight forward.the poem isn’t messing around.

      it will make sense and will be a place just like he said.

      it won’t be like, oh i don’t know, the clouds in the sky, or, you know, we’ve heard a lot of these crazy interpretations right.

  35. E,

    I recommend looking up any word you do not know and are curious about. It’s fun to keep learning. 🙂

  36. Another random comment. In the book he is very specific about 11:00 when he sees the waterfall out of the plane after take off. 11:00 would stand the test of location and time if it was revering to something like a large horseshoe bend as an example. My crew “The fellowship of the Blinge” and I looked for several days in locations like this and did not find anything but I am of the opinion that many ideas will lead to the treasure and I would just like to be part of the search. We did find 2 very old horse shoes on a very large granite rock that had clearly been there for a very long time or placed there as a blaze at 11:00 near a horseshoe bend. It was pretty exciting but yielded to nothing that we could find. I brought both the horse shoes home and they are currently hanging in my garage. Who knows that is my favorite treasure so far in our quest. Also for the record if we find the treasure we are changing our name to the “fellowship of the ChaChing…”

  37. I think searchers should consider that the way FF drove and walked when he hid the TC may not be the same way as the directions that come from 9 clues in the poem. He might be sending searchers to the hidey spot on a different route. So “don’t go where a 79 or 80 year old man, 2 people figured out the first two clues and then past right by, people have been within 500 ft, laughed as I walked back to the car” ect. ect. They may all be true but also might not apply. He might have driven in from south to north and the poem clues could be sending us from north to south to the same area. IMHO

    • I agree Kyote. I think he had his hidey spot picked out and wrote the poem around it but when it came time to actually hide the treasure, he just drove right to the area and hiked/walked to the spot, twice, and did not follow the clues step by step as laid out in the poem.

    • C&j / Kyote: I agree too, and would add: Maybe … the drop off is much easier than the recovery. In other words, his drop site could be up high, but the treasure fell or slid INTO a spot we’d all ignore as ‘impossible for an elderly man to get to’. Top of a waterfall , or dropped from a bridge into a river , or lowered into a cave / well — might be an interesting curve ball to how we read the poem.

  38. I had to do research at first, and after 3 or 4 months of research I bought the book. The fact that I did not have the book to read made me do a lot of research than I wanted to do. But when I finally read the book , it all made sense to me. I suggest everybody read the book until you find the starting point. It is in the book if you are willing to put the time, and the patience.

    • Further evidence Dal needs a blog titled: “I think I know, Yeah, I’m Pretty Sure I’m Right” — just to give a place for all of these “types”

  39. Well, DJ When I type something like this I open myself for attacks, and that is okay. I got all the evidence to back my comments but If I told you all I have found you would not believe me anyways. I am not afraid of any attacks because if you are sure of your own research what does it matter what anybody else says? I just want to help everybody in this blog but if I offended you I apologize.

    • RC are u claiming the treasure is in water. If so that is incorrect Ill tell you this the treasure is somewhere by Olga and its not on taos mountain I’m gonna give all of you a big big clue here be sure to see this I’m giving u this that way no one thinks I’m full of it the area I was at had an old sign and it read Go in Peace Just take the chest and go in Peace. Olga was finally at Peace

  40. Here is some food for thought for the week.

    Many have wondered how does Forrest know the treasure is still there?

    Although the chest and poem may not be “associated by a structure” that doesn’t mean it isn’t by one or that, and here’s my point…..

    Forrest can drive across a bridge and look down to see it.

    What is one way you can check up on something and verify it is still there even when you know there are probably people following your car? A quick glace over the bridge, given he still has his eyesight, could solve this problem.

    Forrest does seem to take a lot of trips to Taos. Any bridges between the two cities?

    • Hello All. I hope the holiday season was a good one. I enjoyed sharing my stories about the TTOTC with family and friends. Some were very fascinated, others looked at me as if I had too much Egg Nog! The one question we all have is how Forrest would know if the treasure was discovered? He is so cleaver and he thinks of just about everything. I would love to hear your thoughts. Dal? Stephanie? Wolf? Dollar Bill? Anyone? Dal, don’t get upset with me for switching gears, it’s just my nature.

      • Pam, here are my opinions.

        I would rule out a gps tracking device because of the battery life, though some will last up to 7 years.

        I would rule out ff checking to see if the chest is gone, too risky as to giving away its location.

        This leaves the finder. If the finder makes it known and proves that the chest has been found, everyone will then know that it has been found. If the finder makes it known that the chest has been found but will not prove it, ff can continue saying it has not been found. If the finder keeps the finding of the chest a secret, again ff can continue saying it has not been found. So, in essence, the chest has not been found until someone proves that it has been found, and ff can comfortably say that it has not been found until such time that it is proven to have been found. 🙂

        • Dollarbill,
          That is way too logical. Forrest is a deep thinker. I can’t see him relying on the finder to be in control of the outcome. I just don’t think its that simple. It could be a catch 22. Make an announcement and you it’s your loss. Keep it a secret and you win the gold, but lose your good name. Tough call huh?

          • I believe, but can’t cite where, ff has said that is how he would know. The finder could not keep it a secret.

            I do not believe ff would keep it secret if he had proof that the chest had been found. Keep in mind that he could always hide another treasure; and, it would probably be worth a few more books by him being able to tell the whole story behind the chase.

        • Ah, but compare standard GPS device vs emergency beacon like ResQlink, which is activated (draws power) only when triggered.

          Also: maybe he rigged something like PowerFilm; portable solar panels that’ll recharge anything

          • Mapsmith, would it not be obvious to a searcher to see a solar panel laying around with wires running to a bronze chest. 🙂

            Which ResQlink model has remote testing, doesn’t need to have its antenna pointed to open sky without any obstructions in between, and has batteries that are not supposed to be replaced every 5 years?

            Have you figured out a workable set up yet? *curious face*

          • Ever think about beacons that are already out there? Dont want to say more…but i think that could provoke thought. Ive been searching something along those lines.

          • Before you make any effort to answer, consider if you found the chest, would you take the tracking device with you or leave it where the chest was?

          • PTN, are you thinking of a laser beam set up to where once the chest is moved, the beam makes contact and signals ff that the chest has been moved? Are you thinking of cameras in the area recording all events taking place around the chest? Or, what are you thinking? 🙂

            The laser beam set would require a power source, periodic maintenance, and would probably call attention to the hiding place. A camera would need power, maintenance, and to be watched 24/7/52 to make sure someone didn’t sneak in and get the chest.

          • This is something im using…so dont want to give too many details. can email if you want. Tyblossom at aol dot com. You cant be funny…youll get me in trouble.

          • As I said before “b b but… Technology!”
            Not that the burden of proof is on me, and not that we’re very much on topic, but there are so many options that it would hard for your treasure hidin’ millionaire to choose just one.
            Let’s agree on a couple things though:
            Forrest didn’t say he could track nor photograph the finder, he only claims he ‘knows if the chest has been found’.
            So video and GPS lo-jack-style trails-of-dots on a computer screen are beyond the bare minimum scope of his claim. So…
            Let’s also agree that all he needs to meet his claim is a mere blip. A blip that rules out weather effects and earthquake activity, but proves the chest has been perhaps lifted and removed from the hiding spot.
            This means the battery doesn’t need to draw/be activated until its lifted. ( Not unlike the golden idol boobytrap in RaidersOfTheLostArk)

            Now, what we’re talking about, if its electronics, is a satellite-communicating beacon or motion sensor. Doesn’t need directional antenna, doesn’t need battery life of ten years, doesn’t even need a solar panel. A 9v battery with the ends covered by a strip of plastic, and a fish line from there to the ground, is all it would take. Drill a tiny hole in the rear of the chest, Hide the device in a bronze * “artifact” under a pile of GoldenEagles and the finder won’t be the wiser until its too late.
            9v batteries are just one example , there are other power cells (but I just pulled out a industrialEnergizer 9v from 2002 for my child’s walkietalkies , removed the plastic cover for the leads, and it worked like new. )
            *who do we know that’s more than capable of this bronze working? 😉

          • He was in electronics in the air force. He talks about a crystal radio not needing a battery. Copper is wound around the tube in a coriolis effect type way. Wow, I’m starting to spell coriolis without having to look it up *proud*

          • Maybe we are all over thinking this. The only way ff would be 100% certain is if there is some catch to claiming the chest. Anything else could fail.

          • mapsmith and anyone interested in my belated reply to mapsmith, I posted it under Odds and Ends.

        • I think there are other options. We know f uses an infrared motion detector trail camera because he posted a picture of a fox taken at night in one of the scrapbooks. There are cellular trail cameras to which you can attach a solar panel that is attached to a tree 10 feet or so away from the camera. Maybe hide the wire under leaves, dirt and/or rocks. Some of the very high megapixel trail cameras can take pictures from quite a distance so a searcher might not see the camera. Many researchers use wildlife cameras so it’s not unusual to see these cameras out in the woods. Once I saw one of these cameras on-line that could remotely send images within a minute of detecting motion. He may have the cell account in someone else’s name for security reasons. Anyway, that’s my best guess of how he can tell whether someone has found the chest. 🙂

          • CJinCA – Yep, Forrest is a SPY! I am glad I had my clothes on when I stood in front of that camera! Or maybe he was just looking to see if the fish were jumping! Or at those cool birds that were being studied that were going “out on a limb” for me to take their photo. It didn’t come out, though, since my flip phone camera has only about 3MB vs. the 8MB of new phones.

        • There are all kinds of people and media looking to cash in on Forrest’s treasure chest. I would venture to guess that 98% would want to cash in on the prize or the fame or both. I believe Forrest is counting on that. There are a few who would love to find the treasure and have it just for themselves for varied reasons. And it for that reason I believe that there is something in the chest that would compel these people to notify Forrest.
          I don’t ever expect to be a millionaire and I don’t want media attention type fame, a foot note in this journey would be pushing the limits of distinction I would ever want to see. But I’m not a selfish person and would want to share and if I were to share it I would probably need some sort of permission or license to own the treasure. So I would have to notify Forrest by means of what instructions are in the chest.
          But on the other hand it would be a nice collection to put in my curio cabinet at home.
          If there is an electronic device I believe it would be activated when the chest is opened not just moved. In any case it would be something harmless because Forrest wouldn’t want anyone harmed.

          • Callous,
            I never thought about someone getting hurt. Are you saying some think once the chest is open something would cause harm to them?

          • No, but in keeping with a lot of buried treasure stories there were booby traps, not always.
            In keeping with the topic at hand any device planted in or around the chest would be a type of booby trap.

            Like I said he is not the type of person to cause harm anyone, so a trigger on lid would be none malevolent or harmful.
            But that is where I believe a device may be.

    • What about bridge workers or engineers seeing it also? FF said it would not be stumbled upon!?

      • What if someone emptied out the goodies and left the chest? I have to say though, i enjoy the thought of f driving by it on occasion and smiling.

        • Part of hopes he doesn’t answer questions at Renelles event. I sort of think he might not since it’s about her more than his book…but you never know. If he did though, I’d like to know if he’s 100% positive it’s still out there. Whoever posted that he might just be assuming it sort of freaked me out.

  41. E* Sorry I didnt see your request until now, here is the post you wanted to see:
    emmett dearing on December 29, 2013 at 7:47 am said:
    saw an article about the early transcontinental airmail path. it consisted of large concrete arrows that still remain, crossing wy. at 10 mile intervals.
    Fenn, the pilot, might be aware of these.
    They have remained since the 20s, and the rural ones may last indefinitely.
    Seems like a perfect blaze!

  42. At 6pm on December 30th Renelle’s Cancer Fund has-

    $15,121.11

    AMAZING!!!
    You are all so incredibly generous!!!

  43. Hey Y’all, My wife gifted me a metal detector for Christmas so I drove over to Glorieta Pass from Santa Fe to check out the Civil War battle site. Instead I searched around the very old post office/train station. Found a 10″ rust key stave and was satisfied. I did however think about steam driven trains that may have stopped at the watr tower for water in 1862 (warm water halt, heavy loads/water high). Dal lived at Birch Bay many years until 3 years ago when we moved to Santa Fe. Been to Lummi Island many many times in those years. Hope to meet you at the auction. Happy New Year

  44. Has anyone concidered that perhaps, just maybe, he knows no one has found it yet, because he has not actually put every detail needed to find it out there yet. Maybe the clues in the poem are all you need to find the blaze, and he has not yet put out the entire blaze? This would explain why some truly think they have found the blaze, but they still have not found the treasure. Just a thought!!!

    • If I am right about the above, big “if” I know, but if it could be true than it also makes sense to me that if you feel really strong about your solve to this point that you would say absolutely nothing about it until you actually had the treasure in your hands. If you want to get something out about your findings than just email them to Forrest. I think he can keep your secret.

  45. I know the above may not seem fair of Forrest to do, but lets not forget its his game he can do what ever he wants. So “Why?” would he do it. Perhaps he does intend to have it be his final resting place, and he just is not ready to leave us yet.

  46. Fred, I have thought all along that forrest knows if its been found or not, because, maybe he left something out that you have to contact him or someone else to collect the rest of it. Or something like this. Maybe he has a bank or someone who will do this for him, when he is not around. If I found the treasure and it was all there. I most likely will keep it a secret, however forrest said,” The type of person who would find the chest would most likely not keep it to themselves.” He has said this. If and when I find it, I would call and let him or his people know, but I would keep it a secret. Unless there is a catch, that half the treasure is in a vault to claim the other half when found. Not sure if he did this or not? But could be…..?

      • Pam: ff said that in an interview when asked about ‘what will happen when chest found?’ It’s been cited a few times. Check all the blogs… Jennifer’s might have it.

    • The last stanza of the Poem is
      “So hear me all and listen good,
      Your effort will be worth the cold.
      If you are brave and in the wood
      I give you title to the gold.”
      This leaves little doubt to me that somehow you will have to get it from him or his people, at a described place found within the chest.

      • Callous,
        I don’t follow. How does that have anything to do with him knowing? Brave and in the wood. Most feel Brave means the guts to go get it, and in the wood refers to the wood in the box. I don’t agree, but I have been known to be stubborn at times.

        • I will never offer my opinion as anything but that. everyone has to find their own way through the poem. Like in life it dosen’t hurt to have out side options to consider. if you find it misleading just remember it was just an opinion.

  47. OKAY!!! todays topic is driving me nuts!! Do ANY of you people READ??? Forrest has stated the chest full of gold is out there!!! No notes, titles, bank keys, BLAH BLAH BLAH…You find it in the MTNS N of Santa Fe and that’s it. I am telling you people one last time, then I will drop it. Forrest KNOWS it is still there for one reason only…IT IS NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND!! Nobody will find it next week, next year, but 500 to 1000 years from now. UNLESS YOU UNRAVEL THE POEM…and judging by the discussion going on here, none of you clowns will EVER do that….(me either, by the way)

    Was that a bit harsh? Sorry…but DARN!! Re-read some of todays posts and tell me I am wrong!!

    • Michael D. Sorry, but I can tell you someone will find it this coming year. Good luck in the hunt. Remember Mr. Fenn said he is a 40 year old with 42 years of experience. Happy new year!

      • Ah but other people have made the same claim, 2 yrs ago, 1 yr ago…. 😉
        Best luck in any case, RC. Here’s hoping (…that I prove you right)! 😀

        • Pam* Although nobody is 100% sure where the gold is until they find it; they can be sure because of the research the have performed. The most important ,I believe, is in the book and you just have to be open minded about, and think outside the box. Knowing the first clue places you in the “searching area” ,and then you have to find the other clues.

    • Michael: I agree that this is harsh but also agree some posters have been frustrating. The hunt requires research and patience, (which includes the patience to put up with newbies. ) 😉

      And one small correction: IMO its not because its impossible – ff has alternately said an unemployed texan with a pickup could solve it, a child could (help) solve it, and/or someone who reads and re-reads the poem and researches will solve it. (He’s also clarified that no one sitting on their duff surfing google earth is going to unlock it/ get it. ) in any case, the poem is no trickier/smarter than Mr Fenn is. Finally; he has said he knows it hasn’t been found, and he’s elaborated enough to say(paraphrasing here) “I can’t tell how I know without giving too much away at this time”.

    • Michael D,
      I have been called many things, but a clown? Ok, if you insist, but a darn smart clown. During my time at circus school we learned a lot. Perhaps some were absent the day we learn about the meaning of a play on words. This is what ff has been known to do. Very well I might add. So you think the 42 lb chest is filled with all the gold and jewels? Tell me how much would a 10x10x5 bronze chest weigh? How much would all the gold and jewels weigh? Add it up and tell me and all my circus friends what you get. Thanks and Happy New Year.

      • Pam-
        We know that the chest weighs just about 20lbs and so the treasure weighs just about 22lbs since the whole package weighs 42lbs..

        We also know that there are 20.2lbs Troy of gold…the rest is probably gems and miscellaneous items.

        20.2lbs Troy is not the same as 20.2lbs..

        You can find out more on the “whats it worth” post on this blog…

        http://dalneitzel.com/2012/11/25/whats-it-worth-really/

      • I am no smarter than anybody else on this blog, but after searching in six different states, over 20 trips in the last two years, and reading about other searchers’ trips, I am relatively confident that those people that KNOW the chest will be found next year are either newbies or fishermen, and until somebody PROVES the chest has been found, it is still out there for me. I find it difficult to believe that a person can solve the Poem without KNOWING EXACTLY where the chest is. You can hunt til you are blue in the face, but until you SOLVE the poem, the chest will remain wherever it is. And just because a few searchers reasoned the first two clues out, does not mean they were AWARE that they solved the first two clues. Attrition alone will get some of us close….I once rolled in a haystack all day, and never did find that needle.

        • For some unreasonable reason this topic attracts people who feel they must spout off. Some like to say they know exactly where it is and will go get it as soon as the snow melts…of course when the snow melts we never hear from them again. Then there are those who are sure the rest of us are brain dead for not seeing all the clues right in front of our little noses. But my fav are the folks who want to tell everyone that they are soon out to get it… but appear to have no more knowledge than a turnip about where to look.

          Anyway…this species of human life that enjoy’s spouting off or seeing their own words on the blog or tormenting others are not new. Rest assured my friends that these folks come and go and the real treasure hunters are quietly going about the business of putting two and two together to unpuzzle Forrest’s poem.

          Don’t be put off by them. In my opinion, it is not the spouters who are likely to be the finders..
          and most important..
          No one, except Forrest knows where the treasure is at…your ideas are just as good as the next persons..

          • Awesome wisdom. ( I’m often guilty, I imagine, of all 3 categories, –blame it on the Thrill /excitement of treasure hunting )–
            Dal’s got the best ttotc site because he’s an excellent host.

            So
            Let’s get back to clue talk here, and leave the chest /pounds/ poetry talk to the “odds n ends” category (thanks for the good example , $bill)

      • Hi Pam – I am one of your “circus friends”, but I certainly am not one of the Walendas. I am afraid of heights. I was really impressed with that tightrope walk across the Grand Canyon, though, and that it was on Navajo land…and that he prayed aloud on international television as he crossed that divide. Inspiring! I hope I don’t have to cross any fallen logs over water with that heavy chest in my backpack..

    • Michael D – If “Nobody” finds it “next week, next year”, I hope “Nobody” will call Forrest to tell him it has been found. Hey, whatever happened to Tim Nobody and the other Tim, anyway? A band called “Captain Dano and the Nobodies” was playing at the original coffee shop, when I left to catch a shower at the club. Oh, and “Stairway to Heaven” was playing over the loudspeaker as I showered. No, really! How can anyone go looking for the treasure without the Joker…I don’t understand… 🙂

      • I dont know about you but I always have a joker with me when I search.lol

        The first joker had a tiger on it….

        • So, I guess that was in the Rajah’s deck?? Thanks for that info., deb! I looked up my animal and Forrest’s on my placemat at the Chinese restaurant last week. I am the Year of the Tiger and he is the Year of the Horse. We are supposed to be compatible. So we are supposed to get along, right??? I don’t think HE would ever leave the Joker behind…

      • Michael D – I finally got to sit down and listen to “Captain Dano and the Nobodies” last night at Coffee Shop Deux. The leader’s name is Dan. And Nobody plays back-up. It’s just Dan on an acoustic guitar. He laughed at my very appropriate series of Nobody jokes. And I enjoyed hearing him play, “Sister Golden Hair” by “America”. I am here at the club catching a shower again. And I don’t mean that in the mythological sense; ie. how Helen of Troy was conceived!

        • ROFL… we enjoyed that. Laughed out loud as the aroma of the chicken for dinner wafted through the house. 🙂

    • Speaking of “clowns”, Michael D, the Cheyenne have warrior societies, which divide similar men into related groups. If I were a Cheyenne warrior, I would be a member of their Contrary Society. My Cheyenne name would be “Chases the Grizz”. The members of this group kind of do everything the opposite way that things are usually done; sometimes that is the best way to illustrate a concept or to make a point. The Hopi have Kachinas that do the same thing. Humor and wit create a laughing pathway for knowledge and awareness to easily find their way into our hearts and minds.

      • I think for the most part everyone over looks one important clue that is not there.. where is the best place to hid something!!

        IN PLAIN VIEW – its so obvious no one can see it..the next bigger problem is the location! One must try and think like Fenn does..which I think is spontaneous, & then he thinks twice and goes back to his first idea..yes is confusing & that’s the way he wants it!!

  48. At 530PM on New Years Eve Renelle’s Cancer Fund has $15,480.53. I am being completely honest when I say that I never expected it to get anywhere near this amount. I am absolutely amazed..

    Happy New Year to all my searcher friends…

      • We will end sales on the evening of the 6th. I have a meeting that night so I’ll probably take down the PayPal buttons after the meeting..Say 9pm, West Coast time on Monday the 6th.

    • That is the way to kick off the New Year! Maybe Forrest will match it. Happy New Year to my fellow searchers!

  49. For your pleasure, a different perspective for a new year….Good luck to all.

    Since I went there by myself,
    And with my valuables fearlessly,
    I can keep my secret where, And give clues about the treasure and the ancient and new stuff in it.
    Begin it where warm temperature or warm colored waters temporarily stop or end
    And take it in the canyon toward the bottom, or Southward,
    Not a great distance, but too far to walk.
    Devote time, or enter a place further down, lower than, or under the home of a Person, Place or Thing called Brown.
    From there it’s no place for the deficient in courage,
    The finish is always getting closer,
    There’ll be no wide, flat and thin pole up your difficult situation, or stream,
    Just a profound weighing down of mind and spirit, or a large weighty quantity of something to be moved, and waters high in elevation, at peak flow, or high above the ground.
    If you’ve been using sound judgment and found the marker or trail,
    look without hesitation to the south, or in a lower physical position
    your journey made in search of something to come to an end,
    But linger a small amount of time with intense surprise while staring,
    Just take the chest and go in peace.
    So why is it that I must go and leave my valuable collection for all to seek?
    The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.
    So hear me all and listen good
    Your effort will be worth the cold.
    If you are fearless and in the timber,
    I give you title to the gold.

    • Excellent take of the poem – well done!! Course with out the key(location) it about as useless as XXXXXX on a boar!

  50. 2014 approaches here in 20 minutes and counting. And I am thinking of TG’s post and how wonderful it would be to be a member of such a fine group…people who are caring and thoughtful of others…like those who gave their last couple of pennies to help a friend…one of our own.
    I’m sorry to cross folks comfort zone but opportunity knocks…
    Maybe it’s not we can get out of the chest, but instead what we can put in.
    Happy New year friends.

    • warm waters halt at the equator..right at the tip of Baja, MEX..from there the waters get COLDER..course there could be other places?

  51. Not what we get out but what we put in!
    A tongue twister! Which reminds me of Pecos Bill…should I?…smiles

  52. Happy new year everybody! Hope everyone is enjoying this time with their families. Hope this year will bring hope, and prosperity to everyone.

  53. E*,
    Forgive me, but I used the word hell in a slang inner city dialect sense, not the biblical one. “For that matter” would be as close a definition of my use of the word hell as I could give you…I did not mean to offend, and certainly will refrain from speaking so “street” on this blog in the future, since another four letter word I used was also “corrected” for spelling. I do find it humorous, however that you seem to be using sarcasm to get your point across…or were you preaching… or is there some hidden message regarding the clues in relation to religious iconography…please enlighten me….

    • Michael D* Happy new year! You asked me about throwing in you a bone. Well, here it is . There is a sentence in the book that talks about the first stanza in the poem. Once you have found the sentence do a little research. That is all I have for you at this moment. Good luck in the hunt, or is it a race now? If you find the treasure you can tell people I helped you.

      • Good luck on the Firehole River, or the Madison River, or the Yellowstone River…I was there too, as were many others….that doesn’t mean its not there…it certainly could be, but your solve is not unique concerning going alone to bath in ther river…

      • RC – I noticed your use of the asterisk next to Michael D*…I just discovered that in the old days they used that symbol you see when the post office stamps your letter “returned for postage”..the hand with the thumb and index finger pointing..to mark important passages in their writings (kind of like what we do with footnotes now). My book I am reading just alluded to that symbol too…oh, I had better get back to reading it so I can return it to the pawn shop!

    • Uh, Jesus spoke in parables, “and that’s all I am going to say about that” – Forrest Gump. I wasn’t preaching, though, Michael D 🙂

  54. Map* I think you and I have the same geo region. However, my searching are is still a much, much smaller are that yours. Can not tell you how much without giving it away. Good luck in the hunt, or is it a race now?

    • RC
      I’m primarily looking in or fairly near YNP (I have about ten ‘possible’ solves, and half are in the park.) While I’m trying very hard to limit my different ‘solves’ , there are at least 3 that start in the geologic/geographic thing suggested , by way of way-back research, by 2 small groups of words in stanza 1. The first grouping (on lines 2&3) is more telling than the second, IMO.
      My search area is much smaller too, but thanks much more to clue/sentence 2, not clue 1.
      Does that help confirm/deny if we’re on the same trail? If nothing else, you can email me off-list at
      EffectiveDetective @hotmail

      It’s definitely not a race. 😉
      esp. because it’s too darn cold to get where I’m thinking to go, thus my July plans.

    • RC – I sort of remember a movie called, “It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World” that I think was about a race, right? I hope the people that rely on tourism at some of our search spots do really well this summer and fall. Kind of like the story in a scholastic reader children’s book I read once. I like to pay it forward, when I can. 🙂

  55. It seems I offended Pam with my clown comment…I officially apologize, I was getting frustrated about( In my opinion) the ridiculous discussions going on about cameras and gps and booby traps….But I may be wrong…maybe he is watching the chest on video, or awaiting a cell phone call…oh wait…Forrest doesn’t have a cell phone! But I admit that I don’t KNOW that he isn’t doing these things (really I do) so again, my apologies…With that being said, Pam please tell me what I have missed regarding the weight of the chest and its contents….

    • Michael D,
      I was just being funny, but apparently some are in need of a lesson on sarcastic humor:) I wasn’t offended at all! I will keep my comments where they matter most.

  56. Currently, these are what I think are the 9 clues. I still think all the other lines are very important to solving the puzzle either to get you to the right general area and/or to confirm you are in the right spot. In some emails or interviews, I seem to remember Forrest saying he would ask people where their wwwh is when they told him their solution, so that is the 1st clue for me that is the most important. I understand wwwh to be a physical spot and not a general area like Continental Divide. I certainly could be wrong about that, but that is how I’m looking at the poem! 🙂

    Begin it where warm waters halt
    And take it in the canyon down,
    Put in below the home of Brown.
    From there it’s no place for the meek,
    The end is ever drawing nigh;
    There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
    Just heavy loads and water high.
    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
    Look quickly down, your quest to cease,

  57. Michael D, you’ve got moxy!
    Oh wait; in redneck, “a scrapper.”
    I’ve been thinking about that “family statement.” or Tg’s post in which you said you agreed with most everything but the family arguement that “we are not family.” …pause…
    You think this would wake me up, but I am absolutely positive you’re wrong Michael, in some ways we are a family!
    Even me…
    …Webster’s states: “Any group brought together for the purpose of treasure hunting, finger pointing, trash talking and abuse. MUST be family.”
    I’m just sayn!
    …Mark H. …

    • LOL, yeah, I get carried away sometimes…You are right now that I think about it….many people on here remind me of life at home, so I guess we are like family!

  58. My thoughts on how he could know(Couple options)(Instructions in TC)……

    He know’s where there is a another smaller item. Map in TC. You hike to it and let the media know what you found on your hike. I think it would be something around Santa Fe.

    You place a add/notice/something in local paper.

    I Bet he reads the paper everyday.

  59. Now that is the first idea that makes ANY sense at all to me concerning a finder being the one to tell Forrest it was found…Perhaps one of his jars or bells?

    • Please don’t take this the wrong way, but when you say what you just said…it suggests that everyone else is coming up with ignorant ideas. You have a very strong personality and I respect that…but at the same time….I think you might not realize that it comes off a bit harsh to others when we’re trying to figure things out also and don’t want to be made out like we don’t know anything. That’s just my opinion and I’m only saying that so as to keep a positive feel on the blogs. I hope you consider what I’m saying and don’t take it in a negative way. *smil* I mean it with good intentions.

      • You are right, and I apologize…..Please understand, there are no wrong ideas here.. I need to tone it down and use in my opinion more….And you have been in all along, I NEVER meant you any disrespect.

        • No need to apologize. I just wanted to express how reading your writings appeared to others. You have some good ideas and I look forward to reading more about them and having them to me to the treasure *wink*….kidding….sort of 😉 I’m glad you didn’t take what I said as some know it all too. It can be hard to share thoughts like that and someone get mad at you for it. Thanks 😉

  60. E*, you are having just too much fun with this! 🙂 See the smoke coming out of my ears?

  61. How is it going fellow searchers? I just came from work to try to relax drinking a beer. I had never had an apple ale before. I think I like it. : )

  62. Those are good and I dont even drink. LOL Angry Orchard? My daughter introduced us to them. Sometimes I miss drinking, most of the time, not so much. Enjoy! 🙂

  63. Hey everyone, I re-read my posts today and just wanted to say perhaps I come across a bit abrasive….Its just passion about the topic, but it could be perceived as a bit hostile and insulting. So to any and all that I may have offended or belittled, my sincere apologies, I will try to be a bit more diplomatic in the future. And in all seriousness, nobody has ideas that are entirely out of the realm of possibility, so I will lay off of poking holes in others ideas unless asked. Anyways, for what its worth, I’m the only clown around here…

    • I guess I have some reading to do tonight, it appears I missed most of it. Sorry MD. I do enjoy watching and participating in a good verbal flogging.

      Over the years I have been on many forums including religion, Politics and chickens one thing I have noticed is that most people word pick and get off topic. I have myself at times, one thing I have learned is never take anything personal.

      • P.S. I don’t mind being told that there may be some holes or assumptions in my thoughts.
        But I do believe in booby traps.

      • I am up to twenty trips in the last 2 1/2 years…But 9 of them were in my home state of Idaho and 2 to Utah….wasted trips:( Well, not WASTED…but you know what I mean.) 4 to Montana, 3 to Wyoming, and 1 trip each to Colorado and New Mexico. I took a little side tour over to Arizona too, but never got out of my car, so I don’t count that one.

        • Oh I love Idaho. I searched there once as well. We went all the way up Baldy Mountain. The most spectacular view I’ve ever seen along with the Rio Grande. *breathtaking*. I know of a couple other searchers from Idaho. We stayed south of Ketchum…forget the name…is that Haily I think. Then we did a lot of searching in Ketchum and went to see the Hemingway memoirials and gravesite. We looked around the Cold Spring Bridge a lot.

          • My husband and son went up to Idaho to search. They brought me back a heart shaped rock from the bottom of the stream. 🙂
            It was too much of a drive over too short of a time for me to go.If Im going that far, Im going to enjoy it. lol

    • Michael D we all have passion in this chase, just have fun and pick the battles you can win. Cant wait for my map to come in, order it Thursday and the guy said he has around 30 getting sent out so you if you want one get your order in plus everyone atleast get one raffle ticket cause it is a win win, help a cause and possible get a icon treasure that is one of a kind.

      • I wish I was getting a map just to read the compass story ;-( Hoping he’ll post it after they have all been sold so I can seeeeee.

  64. Michael D* How is it going? Me? I am doing well, thanks for asking. Have you had a beer, and then decided to have an ice cream? Not a good Idea. I think my stomach is trying to tell me something , hold on. My stomach is a bit angry at me, but that’s okay I’ll enjoy my ice cream, and worry about it later.

  65. After reading the latest note from Forrest that people continue to figure out the first two clues and others arrive there and don’t realize the significance of where they are, I have to acknowledge the fact that it can’t be an obscure or remote area. I’m not sure how it’s hidden, but given the foot traffic in the area, then whether underwater, buried or in a cave, no one will ever stumble on this and you better have a 100% confident bullet proof solution or you won’t find it.
    I won’t say any search is a waste of time as every search is fun and usually educational, but given that some people are within 500 ft and others continue to show up to a spot that is close must mean something about it’s location and how it’s hidden.

    • I was thinking that way too till he defined several at the Moby event in Toas where he said several is more than two, but not many.

      • Before the Forrest challenge to the treasure there was another that captivated a lot of treasure hunters. “A Treasure’s Trove.” A book published with hints and clues to the where about of several jeweled broaches hid across the United States, does anyone remember.
        I went on two hunts from my home in the Pacific Northwest. In both areas I ran into several people who had come to the same conclusions I had. Both times I was in the wrong area because I overlooked where to start or where I was.

        • Call– did you try playing the sequel, “secrets of the Alchemist Dar”? $2 million was on the line there. 😉
          Where ’bouts in PNW are you? (In Seattle here).

          Lots of good hunts have come and gone: Emerald City Search, Search for the Golden Horse, Clock Without a Face, Pink floyd’s Division Bell puzzle, Dan Brown’s lost symbol, and that one that Ben Affleck & Matt Damon produced.
          Plus all the active & recurring hunts like MIT mystery, Herald Hunt, DC’s Post Hunt…

          Treasure’s Trove and its sequel both featured Dragonfly and Butterfly symbology , FWIW (see Fenn’s raffle jar)

          • MS- I’m in the Olympia area.

            Yes I did notice the dragonfly and butterfly.

            Was Pink Floyd’s Division Bell puzzle ever solved?

          • Mapsmith, I do remember you from Treasure Trove. I was on that hunt too and was close for two of the locations! I have been wondering if forrest talked with Michael about Treasure Trove. It seems like he got some inspiration from him, maybe? What do you think?

          • It’s quite possible that Michael and Forrest may have talked possibly about clues. I would think that it would be about what makes up a clue that would keep everyone interested in the hunt but not necessarily the specifics. Of course die hard treasure hunters like prospectors with gold fever don’t need a lot of inspiration at least not like the general public.

            Both men seemingly can keep a secret close to chest and both are good wordsmiths. Michael had a lot of drawings and symbols in the treasures trove that had to be solved but I have not been shown any concrete reason to overly inspect the pictures and sketches in Forrest’s. I believe that Forrest took a more old fashion approach and relies on his words and his maps.

          • What ever happened to A.D? I know he went bankrupt or something. Did he ever hide the rings or did he bag it?

          • Map – I think Forrest’s bronze jar, that he has given away to that lucky Mark, symbolizes the dragonfly keeping a lid on the butterfly 🙂

    • John H.

      I feel that the closest spot people have been ARE the same searchers getting within 500′ . Has Mr. Fenn mentioned that some have been closer than 500′ ? Perhaps I missed that piece of info.

      Liv42dy

      • EDIT——–Even closer than within 500′ such as right on top of it or just a few feet from it?

        • 500′ or roughly 160 yards.

          As an avid hunter i have recognized objects the size of a construction workers hard hat without the aid of binoculars .

          On the other hand I have been known to miss my car in a parking lot. 🙂

      • The only other thing like that he’s said was “I know some have been pretty close.”

        So how far is pretty close?

        • I’m presently looking at three location and would be very happy to find out it was discovered in any of the three. Disappointed if I wasn’t the one to find it but happy i was on the right trial

        • i dont think he means people have been close like they were searching the exact spot. i think he meant that theres a road, trail that is 500 feet from where he hid it.

    • Great point I think forest added that some searcher-s were so close it would have drove them crazy if they knew. I think Forrest is breaking his on rules a little didn’t he say he wants us to figure out the Poem or maybe he is just putting wood on the fire (I wonder if they were close enough to see the blaze) I think THIS CHASE IS MAGICAL your the best Fenn 10 out of 10. Just hope you dont slip up and let the cat out of the bag!!!

  66. Just in case you missed this announcement…
    Suzanne Somers had to withdraw from ticket drawing chores on the 7th of January. Forrest asked Ali MacGraw if she would do the honors and she has accepted. The time was changed to 2PM to accommodate Ali’s schedule. For those of you not familiar with the charming Ali, please google her. Ali is no stranger to cancer. She was once married to actor Steve McQueen who you will remember died at age 50 from Lung Cancer…most likely caused by his participation in the removal of asbestos insulation on a troop ship when he was a young Marine.

    • Asbestosis can be latent for 10 to 60 years…The asbestos fiber has little barbs that attach to the lung and lay dormant unable to be coughed out. The scar from the barbs become problematic. The VA hospital does pulmonary testing and chest x-rays if you request it. This will always concern me because I have been exposed to tons of that crap…It can lay dormant for 60 years. That is a real eye opener. Be careful, be safe, happy new year.

      • My husband has been working construction for over 40 years. Its something we always are aware of since it was a common component in many building materials.

      • Dal and michael p, any man diagnosed with asbestosis should consider having their wives tested as well. I have seen women who regularly shook out and laundered their husbands work clothing breath enough of the fibers to contract the condition.

    • I especially remember Ali MacGraw in “Love Story”, lovely woman and fine actress, and Steve McQueen was so cool – loved him in “The Sand Pebbles”, “Bullitt”, and Papillon, to name a few. I’m really dating myself here. LOL! 🙂

      We know several individuals who have died from Mesothelioma from asbestos – terrible disease.

      I finally bought my raffle ticket and although I have very little chance of winning compared to some people who have bought up to 40 tickets, I still wanted to do something for Renelle. Maybe my ticket pushed the total over $18,000! Looking forward to watching the drawing – congratulations in advance to the winner!

  67. I don’t know if that’s ok to do as much as I want to hear it. I think sending the text might be a violation of copyright. I’m not well versed in that though…maybe reading it over the phone or Skype? Dal said he couldn’t send it to anyone else…hmmm. Maybe he can let us in on a way we might end up hearing the story for those who can’t swing the map purchase.

    • I just didn’t want to post it and blow a selling point…”get the map and get a cool story”…
      I don’t think there is any problem with someone sharing the compass story with a friend via email..
      But I won’t post it on the blog unless Forrest is okay with it and they have sold all their 100 maps..

      • I agree Dal it would not be fair to the map maker or Forrest. I know copyright laws might apply but I bought that map to be a nice little collector piece to our adventure

  68. I was looking for a post by E* yesterday, but cant find it. The one where you commented about the outline of the face profile in the map.

    Yes I have read that the Masons liked to make up fake treasure maps just for the enjoyment of laughing at the people who believed them and searched for those treasures.

    I personally dont believe Forrest Fenn would do that. He wouldnt want his family to have to be confronted by people after his passing. I also dont think he would make liars out of his friends who have publicly backed him about having seen the treasure.

    The chapter on Viet Nam gave me what I needed to know about Forrest.

    Thank you for pointing that out but I had already considered it.
    I love everything you post, it makes me consider all kinds of ideas. You stimulate thought for many. 🙂

    • I do believe scant is suggestive of a rock or boulder, but I just had a thought with you talking about Masons. Scant is a mason term. I’m not looking into that sort of thing, but it is an interesting possible connection for anyone who is.

    • Hi deb – I really like that face profile…it was my motivation to finally embark on my first search. It was like his face was looking down on me, saying “Go!”. I also think I know what the special compass rose symbol is on that map, because of my Dan Brown book. But I can’t enlarge it here to see it clearly. Regardless, that’s a secret Forrest wants kept until each purchaser receives that map, so I am not sayin’ nuthin’ ! 🙂

  69. These are my choices for the nine clues (lines) that I must follow precisely:

    1. Begin it where warm waters halt
    2. And take it in the canyon down
    3. Put in below the home of Brown.
    4. Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
    6. But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
    7. Just take the chest and go in peace.
    8. So hear me all and listen good,
    9. If you are brave and in the wood

    Reason: These lines imply that I must perform a task of some sort. My thought is there are other descriptive clues within the poem that help identify the location and combined with these action lines will reveal the treasure.

    Just for fun…
    Has anyone else noticed the coincidences between TTOTC (to include the scrapbook inputs on this blog) and the book Treasure Island by RLS?
    For example: They each have a book and a map, cheese happened to be a wanted food source in Treasure Island and Dals blog, parrots are in both, and Treasure Island has an “itt”, a “tarry” and a “dumb”. The description of the spices in Mr. Fenns cabinet made me think of the West Indies and the search for Captain J. Flints treasure. So much more…don’t forget to read the Epigraph.

      • Deb
        Big wink to you: If you cross reference SandWich with one of the other hunts I listed in the last 24 hours , there was a huge catch based on smart- aleck wordplay …!!

    • Yup, British Tar(ry)s would be effectively scant at certain army stations around the Rockies – 😉

      • I guess your right. I couldn’t imagine anything of British origin being in the vicinity of the Rocky Mountains anywhere near a Handmade Bronze Romanesque Treasure Chest from around 1150AD.
        Could Forrest have been hinting a Sandwich Belt conveyor?

      • If you look at an old Oregon Territory map it included as far to take in what is now Yellowstone Park. I’m going by memory here but I believe the Oregon Territory took in part of Wyoming, Montana, Idaho Oregon and Washington as well as British Columbia, so British and Scottish dialects would have been somewhat common in the area.

    • There is a black substance that when heated makes things or people tarry and was used often with feathers. 🙂

      • I wasn’t really taking a Tar(ry) angle to the tarry in the poem but for what its worth: Lewis and Clark journals do indicate they made a tar kiln to patch the seems on the canoes. July 1805. I believe they were unsuccessful in their attempt for tar (I guess it was scant). Shortly there after they viewed the Rocky Mountains.
        Thank you for prompting more research.

        • If you are looking for alternative meanings, those in the loging and timber industry have yet another meaning for scant: scant adj : less than the correct or legal or full amount often deliberately so; “a light pound”; … Timber: A slightly thinner measurement of a standard wood size. Or could be Large range of framing timbers including sawn framing timbers, scant and cls with radiused edges and a smooth finish.

          • I am looking at as many meanings as possible at this time BUT ultimately I would like to find the intentional meaning. As you all would.

          • I agree and i believe that once the starting point is found most if not all of the meanings will come to light. I do have a trip planned again in late spring. If it has not been found by then I’ll post my trip.

  70. I wish all the sue happy tax protesters would stop jabbering about the what ifs and focus on the task at hand…finding the darn thing!! And IF you found it, you would be responsible for reporting its value…The IRS takes your word for it unless you decide to go totally public and get yourself plastered across the headlines, then you may have an IRS agent come and visit you to appraise it. It sounds like a bunch of well to do people are searching to me, all worried about what uncle sam will take….Didn’t Forrest say, “Some part of any is better than no part of nothing” or something like that? Be happy if you find it, and pay your darn taxes people!!! Everybody else does…

    • I’m with you, they need to pay the taxes , but be assured I will have a lawyer present when I declare finding it. And I may ask Forrest if he could advise a good one.

      • Gold is so popular now you can easy sell it under the table. Simply have Forrest agree that for the price of returning the bracket he write a statement saying there was never any gold. Cheers.

  71. Hi, I think that ff said something about indiana jones type people to pack up their kids and go look for it, so if you’ve got alot of kids and probably are broke, would one have to the treasure, in order to pay their share of taxes? Wouldn’t that be the case? Personally I am an arm chair searcher, I don’t have enough money for a plane ticket, to go anywhere and I think the cost of gas would be outrageous as well, my only hope is selling stuff or getting a partner who wouldn’t mind all the attention. My sister would be great but she’s been too busy to even hear about it! LS

  72. Put in can also mean the start of your journey. The starting point. So could this mean that Put in below the home of Brown is our actual starting point?

    • Do you think it could be possible to Begin IT and Put in at the same time in the same specific location?

      • I should further explain my question. One of my many, many, many thoughts on this particular stanza is that as I stand at this specific location the next stanza will further describe the spot in which I am standing.

        • I can agree, once you find the home of Brown you would know where to start, my question is – if you where there and there were two or more directions to go, which way do you go?

          That leads to the possibility that the home of Brown is the higher location. One way of going is to take the canyon the other being going south which is also a lower trail.

          • That’s easy- I am going to pick a specific location in which there is only one direction for IT to be taken into the canyon down.
            But I am still trying to decide if down means beneath, go into, or to go away from the canyon.
            I think I have it narrowed down to about 2000 square miles.

          • I guess what I am trying to write is maybe all the criteria in this stanza and the point where IT begins are in one location with only one point in which to start and one direction to travel.
            I am hoping other clues might help me make a choice if there is more than one direction.
            I guess I will also add South as a possible meaning of down.
            Sorry about my last attempt at humor.

          • The Ten Mile Canyon National Recreation Trail is a popular route for cyclists, inline skaters and hikers who seek a paved off-road route through spectacular mountain scenery. The trail runs for 22 miles between the town of Frisco and Gore Creek Campground on the White River National Forest just outside of Vail.

            Take it in the canyon down – Not far, but to far to walk, so ride your bicycle…

        • SJ –

          I agree with you completely. I have always understood the two together to be the starting point. Only trouble is, I have to wait till the summer to prove my thinking right or wrong.

          CW may say that you begin WWH, travel a few miles, and then put in at another location. But my reading of it tells me that you begin WWH and travel down a few miles into a canyon having started below the HOB. Of course, you said it more succinctly. Good hunting.

      • why then did Fenn put where warm waters halt first in his poem, instead of I have gone in there alone?

    • I wonder why Fenn didn’t write that (where warm waters halt) first if he wanted all to start there instead of putting his first line with “As I have “GONE IN THERE ALONE” Food for thought?

      • T-
        Why does an author write a preface or a forward to their book? Other poets have written stanzas before the action begins..This is nothing unusual and no need to make anything big out of it..in my simple minded opinion..

        • Your saying this”As I have gone alone in there” is not the 1st clue?

          question if “IF IN THERE” is not a clue, then what is it meaning?

          • 🙂 Terence,
            “in there” = Cementary page 41 TTOTC page 146 Hillcrest r4 b23=”W”

            a box letter

            match, strike, spark, blaze, fire, light
            :)GOLF

          • LOCATION: Eight miles southwest of Mission. On old Business 83 (not Expressway) from Breyfogel Road at Mission, go west 2.5 miles to Perezville (opposite power plant)Turn south on Loop 1427, drive 1.5 miles into Abram, then one block past church, go west 1/3 mile on gravel road to cemetery.

          • #2 LOCATION: Eight miles southwest of Mission. On old Business 83 (not Expressway) from Breyfogel Road at Mission, go west 2.5 miles to Perezville (opposite power plant)Turn south on Loop 1427, drive 1.5 miles into Abram, then one block past church, go west 1/3 mile on gravel road to cemetery.

      • This is only one of my many thoughts. In my previous comments I have laid out what I think are action clues and descriptive clues.
        I do think the first stanza has clues but I do not think they are clues that I must follow precisely. I believe they could be clues that will further describe the final destination.
        I am thinking IN THERE is the area/spot that will be found after clue nine is deciphered.
        At this time I am focused more on the structure of the poem than the final location of the treasure. (The weather is currently a factor in this decision.)

        I’ll put it this way:

        What does Forrest Fenns Poem and a Compass have in common?

        You must know all the possible directions before you get lost in the woods!

        I am just having fun researching and gaining knowledge of the Rockies and the history of the American west.

        Dals blog has given many subjects in which to study.

        Safety Joe Says…Travel Safe!

        • joe I think that you are right on -on the first stanza I also think it describes the final destination also for IN THERE its my opinion that if you can figure out what new and old means you will find the answer to what it means that’s just my poinion good luck

          • In there could be in the woods, in a valley, in a mountain range, in a specific geological area…it is an introduction to the beginning of the hiding process. He went in there to hide the treasure, in a place that is “dear” to him, holding riches of memories new and old. It is his analitical reasoning for hiding the treasure in that area ” in there”. Start with wtwwh. You will end up “in there” where the treasure is secreted.

        • If one overthinks this poem your spinning your wheels….the poem is what it is..clues to be put in the right order to find what was hidden..the problem is how to untangle it and everything written there is for a purpose..picking out bit & pieces wont do it. !

          • The clues are in the right order already, no need to unscramble anything. Forrest told Dal not to mess with the poem. Folloe it exactly as it is written. Good luck!

          • everyone has to follow there own path, it may lead you where you want to go or it may not..hence the word choice..you either make them good or bad!

  73. That so funny safety Joe, Me too, I was justing thinking that I think I narrowed it down to about 1000 miles..

  74. Ok, Lets look at the first Two clues. If they are…Begin in where the warm water halts. So you begin it there. Ok, I am at a place were the warm water stops. OK easy, Now…..And take it in the canyon down…Now I think this is saying the warm water is going down the canyon…..A lot of people think that they go down the canyon…but I don’t think this is what it is saying..Well maybe?

    • No you are exactly right. The poem reads that the warm waters gets taken down a canyon. The first stanza confirms this

    • You follow the water and take it in the canyon down. A road. You wouldn’t take a canoe or float over the falls. The road or ” it” follows river. The clue to really concentrate on is…”take it down (river), not to far, but too far to walk” & “put in below the home of Brown”. How far is too far and what is considered home of Brown? The, why be wise to find the blaze? What do you need to do to become wise?…STUDY & THINK! That is what he says will help you solve the poem. Good luck.°°°¥Peace¥°°°

      • I like what your writing. I am stuck on “take it in the canyon down”. Why add “down” after “in the canyon” ? Does he mean take it into the canyon or could he mean take it in the canyon then go further downward (away) from WWWH and the HOB?

      • The warm water goes down the canyon. Not up the canyon. The Poem say’s there will be no paddle up your creek. So you go up a creek, not down a canyon, unless you go down than up….That is how I see it. Or you just keep going up. Either way Your up a creek without a paddle. And water goes down.

        • I have several thoughts in which I use Warm Waters as a body of water of some sort. I also have some ideas in which I think Warm Waters could be contained in automobile radiators and a halt could be a temporary stop such as a rest area. In this case warm water can go up or down. ” Wagons with rubber wheels” from TTOTC made me think of cars.
          ” There’ll be no paddle up your creek” could mean…go downstream. ”
          It could also mean… you will be put in an awkward situation.
          Just a few thoughts I have.
          The question is now…which one am I going to choose?

  75. Forrest’s next public appearance someone needs to ask: Of the 9 clues what is the farthest distance between two clues (but can’t say too far to walk)

    • I think he’d give a little look of uncertainty… then make a statement intended to stall and give him time to think… something like “who wants to know that?”, then he’d answer, “from the first to the last”.

      Mr. Fenn wins again.

      jdh

  76. Mr. Fenn said at an interviw, some people followed the first tow clues and passed the last seven, and some searchers were 500ft from the treasure. It seems by these statements, that after getting to the general area, the clues are close together. At least I hope so! Can’t wait til late July! ¥Peace¥

  77. Its not hard, forrest said give the poem to a kid. I think we all make it too hard, which is easy. I think the hard part is being brave. Getting the money and time to travel in this world is the hard part. Well for some. Some think the map looks like forrest, but the map of Montana has always looked like a man. Nothing new…Not a clue, I think it looks more like a Nixon nose, not a forrest nose. Forrest is much more handsome, wink wink.

  78. I read that the number 9 has played a lot in the book TTOTC? Not just the “nine clue” but it comes about strangley? Anyone have a clue to help my befuddled brain start to work again.

  79. Someone referenced it as a potential clue Supporter? Like its peppered in the book a lot or something of that nature? i just can’t find that post anymore!

    • Texas, I remember he said read and read some more the poem, and the book, than find things that may go together, that may go together? Something like this. I am on a grid with it now.

  80. I see “8” being important. In two far to walk…2 is for sure something. But that is all I am going to say about that….

  81. And that my friend is a hint to something I found in, Too Far, to Walk. Did you catch it? Anyone, if you dare?

  82. “The river distance was about ten miles”…”it’s just too far to walk” there, I said it. Mr. Fenn said he didn’t realize he put that clue in the preface til after it was published. (In the bookstore interview on TFTW.).

      • 10mi is a long way to walk for the aged-since Iam one:) if its on a rough surface or gravel it would be really bad..head back to suv and motor there!

  83. Donna, Did he say that about that sentence? ten miles? He said it was that clue? in the preface? I did not know that. So you must take a boat of drive, right?

    • No, he did not say it was that sentence. But a big question everyone asks is “How far is too far to walk?” And he seems to have answered that questionin in the preface in not so many words if you read the whole fishing story, then end it with its too far to walk. I may be wrong, he may have been refering to the Madison River as the wtwwh clue location. He didn’t say. But he did say in the interview that he didn’t realize he put a clue in the preface. Maybe I am misunderstanding. He did say he waded and fished ten miles, so I guess you could take a raft. Sorry if I misquoted anything.

      • I said in an interview that there was a clue in the book, not the preface, that I didn’t realize was there until after the book was printed. Some have discovered it already.

        Dal and I are trying to think of some kind of new contest we can have on his blog. The shadow was a good one and so was Renelle’s raffle. Any ideas?

        • Forrest,
          How about another raffle or contest with the prize being a complete set of all of your books, signed, of course. That is certainly something I would be interested in…

        • Best adventure story about looking for the treasure. 250 words or less.
          Best photo “Forrest Fenn look-a-like” based on a photo from the book.
          Best “helping hand” from a searcher while out looking..

        • Here is your chance to speak for Peggy! All the things you ever imagined Peggy saying about the chase? LOL

        • Hi Forrest! I just wonder how this clue in the book got overlooked? A miss print? We are looking forward to your next clue! Happy New Year Forrest and best wishes to You and Peggy…

        • My idea for a contest, everyone write song lyrics about your most memorable failed search, and specify a particular song to which the lyrics could be sung or, or, or
          maybe Forrest can locate some musicians with a sense of humor to make up tunes on the spot for the top 5 or 10 lyrics. All in jest of course.

        • I say we may make a medicine bag for our trip’s this year , and email them , for a dinner with ff.
          at least we all get home in one peace !

        • The ‘story of quest adventures’ sounds fun, especially if people “exaggerate” a bit, funniest story. A recipe based on the poem also sounds fun, I can just imagine “waters high” ingredients, especially from those looking in Colorado.
          PLEASE OH PLEASE CAN THE PRIZE BE A JAR OR BELL!?! I can’t find one like the one I didn’t win on e-bay, and it was soooo cool. The books can be bought, but the bronze-works can’t.

        • ! Neat, thanks for the chance to input!!!
          — Poetry contest! Best poem , in Mr Fenn’s style (6 stanzas, 99% rhyming, ABAB, etc), that would point/map someone to your own treasure!!!

        • How about a hat contest? Many searchers wear hats on their treks. You have photos of yourself in a hat.
          No faces or long blond hair… just hats. It could be on a mannequin head perhaps and decorated but no live faces.
          Everyone could participate… including the kids.

          It could be a lot of fun and inexpensive.
          May the best hat win.

          jdh

  84. Put in is a rafting term! I do know that for sure, because I have friends who run rafts on the Salmon. I always believe you may need a raft to get to the right place.

    • Put in below the home of Brown, but you cant paddle up the creek, carry your raft & equipment aka heavy loads to the deep water above you..on the way you might pass a or the BLAZE!

    • food for thought: ” a long time ago, back when only a few people lived beside “Canyon Road”, along the south bank of the Santa Fe River, in small homes of adobe – or sun-dried bricks of mud and straw. They had made the bricks, lovingly, with their own hand”

  85. I remember now, he did say that. I think at the bookstore reception. Yes he said READ THE Preface!

    • Is there somewhere I can go to watch the video? I signed up ahead of time as advised, but then had to go out of town.
      Thanks for the lead. 🙂

  86. I think he said Read the Preface in a interview. Did he? I thought I remember this? Maybe I am wrong. but I think he said something about the Preface.

    • I believe Forrest said the clue that was in the new book was the Map stopping at Canada.

      • He’s also answered the question ” are there clues in the new book (TFTW)?” By saying “yes, because the map is in the book”

          • Latitude lines run east to west and tell you how far north or south you are from the Equator you are.

          • 10deg east is running east & west & you say this is normal..this is why you have found anything yet!

          • I must be missing your point. 10 Degs. East would be a longitude line not a latitude line.
            To read a map to pin point something you have to have both.
            example
            The Island in Yellowstone Lake is located at 44° 25.581′ north of the Equator. To pin point it, it is -110° 21.980′ west of the prime meridian .

            The Rock Mountain range is roughly between 30degs North and 50degs North latitude. and 105 degrees and 118 degrees Longitude.

          • Terrence, if you are talking about the map in the back of TFTW, which has been made into a wall map, those are NOT latitude or longitude lines. It states very clearly, in red letters on the map, that the “degrees show the declination of magnetic/compass north from true/map north”.

          • My wall map just has the latitude and longitude lines. From the poor picture of the map I saw of FF’s looks to have the Magnetic Declination lines shown. In which 10 degrees E runs through Montana, Wyoming, Colorado and New Mexico. That line runes South by southwest not East and west.
            Regardless you still have to have a crossing coordinate to pin point any point along the Declination line.

          • I was not looking or in it for an argument, simply trying to understand you concern over the map.
            I hope you find the direction you need.

          • I saw something you did not see. You assuming I have no clue about Lat/Long. Never assume!

            Have a nice day!

          • Callous: looks like that last post was addressed to Terrence.

            I too figure maybe he’s (terrence) getting messed up by the diagonal compass declination lines.

            In any case, back to the chase!

          • My apologies.
            I had not seen the Map that you may be referring to.
            I just looked up the map in the book and you are right it is a Magnetic Declination Map.

          • No worries Callous. I probably should have addressed my response to Terrence as it’s sometimes difficult to follow the thread. I have a feeling Terrence is just confused about what those lines are.

          • there is a 10 degree magnetic declination line that runs (mostlY0 east and west in the TFTW map

          • I wil make it simple – a the time the treasure was hidden – true NORTH was 10deg East..so true north from santa fe was not directly north!

  87. f,
    Thanks for asking us.

    This is a good way to make a small difference.
    Maybe more Will follow, hopefully more will lead.

    I doubt f, that we can raise a million man army to clean Alaska or the radiation balls zipping through our oceans, but I’d try…no prize necessary! (Books are a *sweet* idea…).

    How about a simple do good idea!…Help someone develope and implement a plan for a green buisness…i.e. fresh water ponds.
    I’m serious. We start small. BABY STEPS!

    We raise the money to help someone start these types of businesses.

    I usually get in trouble when I talk…but 30 grand invested properly with a group of friends behind you seems powerfull!

    • How about making a great donation to one of the poorest schools in America, the Pine Ridge Reservation Elementary. Help develope their minds with access to computers, improve school lunches, on site health and dental care, maybe purchase another bus so kids don’t have to freeze walking sev miles to school. Green is great but to help develope a mind is to lift the curse of poverty and break the chain. Just saying. When I find the treasure, this is my mission. There are seversl reservations that need desperate help, like San Carlos in Arizona also. We helped Renelle, why can’t we help others too!

  88. Maybe my idea is what could be done with the money instead of what kind of a contest or raffle to have. Finding people with a good biz plan then knowing which is best might be impossible.

    An essay or raffle seems to be the only logical thing… (with the raffle being less competitive).
    How do we organize that poker game.

  89. I have to admit, I was disappointed in the first contest. Having it be who’s shadow is Playboy worthy. Renelle’s fundraiser was Awesome. Please lets take some time and votes and make it a great contest. Based more on the Adventure not looks. And how it could be fair for all. The Race is on…..I would Love to have a “sub” adventure with clues and Prize’s leading to a treasure. That could be fun too. I like to leave small treasures on the trails I go on. Like a easter egg hunt! Dal maybe could do this when he is out and about across the land….

    • How about Forrest chooses the most off the wall or absurd interpretation of a clue in the poem? I’ve had some hilarious ideas. This would be funny, and I do like funny. I really like the Forrest gets crazy mail section here. 100 words tops.

  90. I guess the first question is are we raising money?
    Are we being charitable or is it for fun?

  91. The treasure is not in a graveyard, but that doesn’t mean that you pass by a graveyard en route to the treasure.

    eg. below home (last resting place) of Brown

  92. Any one want to share or hint to what the unintended clue in Too Far To Walk might be in the book? A guess at least, anyone?

      • I am a searcher, I think I know what it is, but well I am just not sure. Not sure I want to say it. Can you give me a hint.

          • Forrest has gone to great lengths to not give an advantage to any one person. I feel that the people who can not afford the book are at a disadvantage to the ones who can afford it. If that clue is a big one, I feel it should be made public for everyone now that someone has discovered it.

          • Awww I could loan you mine if you mail it back to me but it’s a treasure hunt everyone gotta search

    • What I love about this chase is that the highest IQ isn`t going to win, its going have to be someone that thinks just like Forrest to get to the finish line. This make the playing field even and the only person you are fighting is yourself 🙂

        • I agree that his IQ and self aware is up to par but he set forth the chase to be even cause I am a Idiot savant and I believe I have did a good job at solving some of the clues.

          • Forrest he is not some high iq geek I
            Made him
            Take a test one time I think it came out he was autistic. Lol. Or was that my sister or both 🙂

          • I took a IQ test one time and it is base on how fast your brain can solve a puzzle or compute what your mind is visually seeing

          • It should be a CAST test that stands for Childhood Asperger Syndrome Test, My youngest son has Aspergers and my wife and I learned alot on how the mind works, I find in the chase that visual thinkers have a advantage in the hunt. Temple Grandin over came alot from a world that didnt undestand her. Love that movie 🙂

  93. I know this is off topic from above conversations, but has anyone ever given any thought to why there are no pictures of forrest with the silver bracelet on. He won the bracelet in 1965 when he was about 35 years old, and he got the idea to hide the treasure when he got cancer in 1988, when he was 58. Thats 23 years, and likely more if he did not put it in the chest right away. Maybe special to him, but he just did not wear it???

    Fred

  94. some people don’t wear thing’s at all time’s of life !!! I like the digging gypsy girl.
    some dig , she know what a going on. I feel if your not in the chase of the hunt
    don’t bother to fill thus blog of the person that is to find !

      • so do we agree on all part of life there is a dance to life ,
        to take the challenge and dance on with a chance there is a part to give on to others a second party of like to speak .
        like billy the kid said a six gun said im a wanted man!
        I have seen a dead man he is still alive and well !

        • cowboy – you remind me of Yoda sometimes 🙂 Your “there is a dance to life” and “dance on” words reminded me of what the author, named “Michael”, wrote as the personal inscription in my “Dances with Wolves” book: “Keep Dancing”. He wrote that book while living in his car in L.A., and he has been battling cancer for the last several years. I have prayed often for him, ever since I met him that night at his book signing. And I ADORED that movie with Kevin Costner!

  95. I remember forrest saying something about leaving some things out, or mistakes on purpose in TFTW. I have found one in the beginning. I do believe its a clue on where to start. Did Anyone else find it? Something that is missing and strange. Did You see it? Its my hint of the day. Oh And thanks DG! Not the one DG just mentioned. Its another thing.

    • I find TFTW to be a great read of stories and such but there a few hints depends how you look at them but I always refer back to TTOTC for any clues as what the book was intended

  96. Forrest Fenn, Moby Dickens Book Shop, 11/02/2013
    Time: 9:40

    Fenn says, with conviction (my FBI friend specializing in body language, think Meet the Parents, confirms this), that nobody has found the treasure.
    Does anyone know the route from Santa Fe to Moby Dickens Book shop because there is a decent chance that it is visible from the roads he took?

    This also discredits anyone who thinks the treasure is anywhere BUT northern New Mexico. Please, explain to me with reason, how in the world he can POSSIBLY know if the treasure there if its in any other state???

    And please, if you respond with cellular phone or some type of surveillance then you didn’t read the “with reason” part. This also refers to those that’ll throw the “Forrest doesn’t think anyone would keep it a secret.”

    • Respectfully request: Let’s take the off-topic ‘how does FF know its not been found’ over to the odds n ends page? Already some dialogue between $bill & me working the technology angle to death 😉
      In short: no it’s not (likely to be) a mobile nor a matter of the honor system. And there’s no logical proof it’s not in , nor definitely is in, any 1 of the 4 states on the map …until you’ve got the gold in your hands.

      • Off of that logic then you might as well search south of Santa Fe too while you’re at it. I mean “until you’ve got the gold in your hands” who’s to say it isn’t?

        Forrest says in his book that it’s north of Santa Fe yeah? but he also said you only need the poem…so….hell….let’s look south of Santa Fe

      • Electronic eye works well as a spy…Im sure he uses that, if he was driving around to check on it, im sure he would have a tail.

        • Djj: what?!?
          E:
          It’s a fact he does have tails. When $3M and rising is media-hyped price (of a 800K box of gold) it’s no wonder that a few unemployed PI’s (and more creepily, non PI’s) are camping in Santa Fe. It’s been a problem from what I hear, one that’s getting worse each year.

  97. moby you need stay with en area this is dal s page this Is his web page not you this a self respect area of comment !

  98. How would we know which is the unintended clue if FF put other clues in the book. The Clue has to be something he didn’t do…..(the map) Does anyone think I’m heading in the right direction ?

    • I believe it has something to do with the map or a picture in the book, The chapters are all his personal words, checked over more than once I imagine, so how could he leave text in the book he never intended too.

      • FF has said the clue is that the map stops at Canada but that sounds like a non clue to me so check the map close. Got to be a good clue there if you know what to look for.

  99. Hi Pieces. Yes I think you may be right about that , THE CLUE is something he did not do, maybe they did not correct a addition he want deleted, something like this. Something slipped by, I heard him say also; Other things that he left out on purpose, I have seen a couple of these. No one wants to talk about that. I noticed. HEEHEEHEE

  100. Anyone else think that with all of Forrest’s “throwing himself” references that the chase ends at the top of a cliff and the chest can be seen at the bottom?

    Goes with “look quickly down”

    • Of course it is a possibility.

      But I don’t believe he would throw off a cliff just because of the possibility of breaking the chest open. Even if he lowered it down I doubt he could make sure it was in a firm position.

    • Well many people believe there are two routes to the treasure. One the chase takes you and another to place/retrieve the chest.

      • That is how I base my final search area, IMHO there must be two paths to the treasure….Forrest’s path and the Poem’s path.

    • My thoughts is that somewhere in his will he may have instruction for the same thing that Olga had and that someone will fly over the place where the treasure is and put his ashes there. After cremation that basically is what is left your bones. Just IMO.

      • Interesting thought aspen…..He said when they find the chest they will find my bones…but I like your outside the box thinking…

        • Michael D,
          Yes, he did say that about his bones. Why?? Because his bones (part of himself) are in the chest. He is so smart!! He really did think about everything!

          • Are they in the Chest or will they be if the treasure isn’t found by the time of his death?

            Either way it becomes one of tales from the Crypt 😉

          • Pam – The word “bones”, in literary terms, can refer to “achievements”, ie. when Sonny, in “The Godfather”, says, “I made my bones…”. And “Leaves” of “Grass” can be “Pages” of a “Minor literary work”…FYI. If his autobiography, and the things he worked hard to collect, are in the bronze chest, that fits, right??

        • I hope there is a six pack of Bud Lite waiting for me at the treasure chest site. Forrest this will be a game changer for me if there isnt.

  101. Something is confusing me about FF Georgia license. He said his tudor was bought in 1945 when he was 15 and he had the license show he was 16 rather than his real age of 15. But the license shows his correct DOB and the car registration states 1946. How did he falsify his license? It looks correct but the year is 1946 not 1945. Unless I’m missing something.

    • Not sure it helps hunt, but Mr Fenn’s age according to old records vs new do not match. The error could be accidental or not. There were legit and honorable reasons for such alterations in the past,… Let us let it suffice to say: ‘let it be’ & let’s get back to poems & clues

        • Try ancestory.com it lists Fenn in 1945 attending the local JC & age is listed as 18….deemd like anything with Fenn is not quite exact:)

        • 🙂 cloudcover1,

          My apologies for being redundant, in my reading I never came across where you posted this link and pointed out that the name was spelled differently…please post a link where you stated this information, so as I don’t waste blog space and everyone’s time.
          Again my apologies to you in trying to help.

          MSSBFL
          🙂 TGC&CS

          • Sorry, I’ve never posted (that I remember) that link and pointed out that his name was spelled differently. Didn’t know you were being redundant either. I was making a remark that I’ve seen that page you posted before. Sorry if I offended you. I don’t always get what people are trying to get across sometimes. How were trying to help me?

          • 🙂 cloudcover1,

            I was trying to help with documented records link website as to ff DOB (fwiw).
            Above in your post, there was not a confirmation source listed for DOB. You were questioning a confusing age issue.
            So I posted a link of such, with the notation of inconsistancy in first name.

            MSSBFL
            🙂 TGC&CS

  102. I’m still confused over the cold and in the wood. Can’t decide if you reach down into a wood well like structure holding the treasure or if you are cold from wading the creek and then walking into the woods. Any ideas on this?

    • I liked your idea of cold from wading through a creek. It makes sense for this line. I thought it could refer to altitude and the cold encountered. Forrest does mention the cold at altitude in his book.
      This next thought might not make sense:
      What if cold in this case were to mean –precision, thoroughness or accuracy? Would it make sense to say …Your effort will be worth the accuracy… at this point in the poem? I’ll justify this by also including that I think the word “title” in the last line could mean “details” and not necessarily the case that he is giving ownership of the gold.
      To sum it up: Your effort will be worth the precision, so pay attention to the details and it will lead you to the gold.
      Maybe it means both. Then again, I also think his name is anagrammed into the last stanza.
      I do believe “In there” in the first stanza is “in the wood” and at this time I am still lost as to what could be its intended meaning.
      You will probably agree when I say its time for a break.

  103. WHEN THINGS GET FISHY MIGHT BE TIME TO START FISHING. Best spot is just below the home of Brown 🙂

    • Kind of funny in a way, that’s what my grandfather use to say.

      We lived in south central Washington and use to go to Palouse falls to Bass and Catfish. It was to far to walk so we drove down to the railroad tracks and hiked up the snake river where Palouse falls was. I can remember as a kid everything I found was a treasure. Rail road spikes to snake skins.

  104. OK, guess I’ll beat this dead horse…. Heres what FF said on the 19th jan 2014
    “I said in an interview that there was a clue in the book, not the preface, that I didn’t realize was there until after the book was printed. Some have discovered it already.”

    OK NOW on the video interview 11/2/13 at Moby Dickens , he is asked about that clue and he sez something like
    >>> well if you read my preface… it won’t take a genus to figure out what there talking about<<>yes there are hints in the new book<< SO is he just ,,,, what ?

    Its at the 38.04 time point on the 11/2/2013 Moby Dickens interview at GypsyKiss web site " related videos" tab at the top.

    • See, I thought he sais that! I rewound that video five times and figured out, 2 + 2= 4. Walked about ten miles…it’s just too far to walk..so MY bet is that the distance is about ten miles or within a ten mile area driving down the canyon. I say driving, because FF says it took him two trips from his car with the treasure, and he laughed to himself at what he did as he walked back to the car. So the road leading down into the canyon is the “it”. Unless of course there are two routes to the treasure, one is by raft, to enjoy the experience, but the final location can certainly be reached by road.

  105. there is a bug called the Brown March Mayfly, and there are caddiss’ and many types of Mayflies, all trout bait. I was thinking where they hatch (water) could be a hoB but also I coped this from wiki, it could be a blaze…

    Often, all the mayflies in a population mature at once (a hatch), and for a day or two in the spring or fall, mayflies will be everywhere, dancing around each other in large groups, or resting on every available surface. The hatch of the giant mayfly Palingenia longicauda in mid-June on the Maros (Mureș) River and the Tisza River in Serbia and Hungary, known as “Tisza blooming”, is a tourist attraction.

    • musstag – And according to Ian Frazier, in his book, “Better than Nobody, Nobody Better” the dragonflies LOVE to pick off those mayflies during that hatch, leaving only their wings behind. I can’t wait to hear him talk about travel writing next month here 🙂

      • musstag – Oops, that was “Nobody Better, Better Than Nobody” by Ian Frazier. There’s another great short story in that book about Grizzly bears FYI.

  106. The following is a partial list of deduced facts that I use to choose my locations,,,,these facts are in reality just my opinion……

    1. The chest is more than 500′ from any water source. This places the chest in the 1000 year flood plain of “the canyon”.

    2. The chest is entombed or covered -it is not in plain sight.

    3. It will be more difficult to retrieve the chest than it was to hide it.

    4. The chest is at least 100′ vertical feet higher than the elevation of the nearest water source.

    4. When solved correctly, the poem will take you directly to the chest.

    5. The last stanza has two of the nine clues in it.

    • I think you have some great ideas.. since fenn like to go into caves as well as old mines ..your 500′ from any water source might come into play!

      • Terrence – Since Forrest planned to be buried with the bronze chest, maybe the minimum elevation of 6,200-6,300ft. comes into play, also. I think that is the minimum elevation for cemeteries in the area I am looking, anyway (to be above water sources nearby).

          • William – I found an area with graves, then did the research on the minimum elevation later. I think it was in the documentation provided to the historical society for a historic building I read about.

          • Oh I thought I might have missed something that he posted. He does mention alot about people passing away but the he also says no need to dig up old grave sites. so maybe a burial marker ?

          • In his war stories, he wrote about finding a french soldiers headstone in the tall grass. My be something linked to that experience, but definately not in a cemetary, he did say that!

  107. Michael D – Here’s what Norman Maclean wrote, about what his Dad said to him about writing, in his book, “A River Runs Through It and Other Stories” (which I read a bit of yesterday):

    “You like to tell true stories, don’t you?’ he asked, and I answered, ‘Yes, I like to tell stories that are true.’

    Then he asked, ‘After you have finished your true stories sometime, why don’t you make up a story and the people to go with it?

    Only then will you understand what happened and why.
    It is those we live with and love and should know who elude us.”

    That made me think of Forrest and all the books he has written, his poems and his other online literary efforts. Norman Maclean was 70, when he wrote “A River Runs Through It”. I thought the movie was great, but his poetic writing in the book is sublime.

  108. Please understand I am not trying to put anybody’s ideas down, but I have to wonder if some people on this blog have done their due diligence, and at least read and watched every link available before they spew forth the “information” they provide on this blog…it seems some of us are flogging the H-E-double hockey sticks out of some stuff that should be common knowledge by now.

    1. Forrest was alone when he hid the chest, nobody else was with him.
    2. All you need is the poem…solve the clues and it will take you directly to the
    chest…(although I believe you still must search for it when you arrive “in there”)
    3. There are subtle hints in TTOTC that will help you with the clues in the poem.
    4. Several people have e-mailed him that had “solved” the first two clues,(they were in the right “spot”) although Forrest states they may not have been aware that they solved the first two clues (…this tells me locations were correct to have solved the first two clues, so the first two clues can be deduced without successfully solving the entire poem…this is HUGE when you think about it!! He has said if the first few clues are solved the chest could be found…it would be difficult but possible. So solving the first two clues places you in reasonable proximity of the chest…and I believe this also means the first two clues are not lat. long, but descriptors of a place. )
    6. Forrest knows for a fact the chest has not been found…but we don’t know how he knows this…
    7.The chest is somewhere that an old man put it…(that being said, I believe it was easier to place it than it will be to retrieve it)
    8. Forrest’s original (and maybe still) plan was to die next to the chest so when the chest was found they would find his actual skeleton…no metaphors here…he planned at one time to die at the location…
    9. there are 9 clues, not eleven, not seven, 9….

    • I agree Michael. We may interpret the poem and Forrest’s stories differently, but much of the info about Forrest and the treasure should be common knowledge.

      • I’m 65 and an avid hunter and fisherman, I know hunters and fisherman, old enough to be my dad, that know every tree, rock and pool of water in our area From Washington to Northern Calif, and east to Wyoming, most agree that clues in the poem could fit in several areas they have been to. At least with starting where warm waters halt. They don’t even want to take a stab at the lower Rockies.

        I personally don’t believe there is much about FF or the treasure that is common knowledge in the sense that everyone should already know . There is a certain amount of knowledge between treasure hunters (Chest in this case)that are assumptions that are shared in hopes of breaking some code or in understanding FF’s train of thought and life’s journey.

        • Callous, the info on Dal’s cheat sheet, the info on Forrest’s blog and the “scrapbooks” and videos he has provided to Dal and all the interviews posted here, on Forrest’s blog and on Toby’s site are the things that are accessible to everyone and that is the info that could be considered common knowledge. Searchers need to avail themselves of all of this free information if they are serious about looking for Forrest’s treasure. As I said, we all will interpret the poem and stories differently but there are a lot of answers to many questions about Forrest if people will just take advantage of all that is already available.

    • Michael D-
      I do agree with all your comments posted except and please correct me if I am wrong.
      -There are nine clues that must be followed precisely…This could imply that there are possibly more clues but only nine that must be followed.

      • Safety Joe,
        we may be splitting hairs here, and of course, I do not know for a FACT there are only 9 clues…but the book states, and I quote, “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure:”

        • Michael D-
          Maybe I am looking to far past the obvious and thinking there could be more. I have changed my mind so many times.
          I guess we will not know for sure until the chest is found.
          I do not always take things at face value.
          I once told my wife I only had one beer…I didn’t mention it was a 48 once growler.
          Thanks for the reply.

      • IN MY OPINION>>>>>>
        Serious searchers will remember that very few things man made will survive to be 1000 years old. Since Forrest planned this hunt to persist for that long, we can conclude he picked clues that will also persist for that long…now I know there’s a camp of searchers that believe he never intended his clue poem to last that long, but I respectfully disagree, because he planned this chase to persist, and the poem is the only way anybody will find the chest, now…or later. Why would I leave my legacy to the fate of a man made object with a 100 year or 200 year life span? No, I believe the man is much wiser than that…the location will persist through time, because it already has persisted through time. Wherever that thing is, there’s already history…I can almost guarantee that. So again, IN MY OPINION, we can forget about dams and bridges and buildings, etc. and focus more on history and art and bedrock…you know, things that persist through time…so the home of Brown MAY be of historical significance, and therefore persist even after it is gone, this is the only possible way a man made structure or object could be a clue…

        • I know what you mean, and agree, but heres another thought: FF put an auto-bio in that chest and several hairs from his head, for dna test.

          So I think that in 300 to 500 years no one will know about this Treasure hunt, and all sighs to it could be long gone, thats why he put the auto-bio and dna material in the chest, so thta if found by accident 1000 years from now, they will know something about the man how did this.

          So the clue answers that are land marks, maybe be natural, but do NOT have to be ‘cast in stone” so to speak. just another idea.

          • Knights Templar was thought to leave treasure on Oak Island in a mine shaft in the in 1200s and just the thought of treasure is still talked about 800 years later

        • Michael: I’m certainly in that camp , thinking the poem isnt designed for 1000+ yrs (even though the chest will last that long). And thinking that the autobiography and DNA is sorta proof he doesn’t think the hunt /clues/poem will necessarily last forever.
          Anyway, we can all agree, I’d hope, that FF chooses his words carefully.

  109. I agree with you. Places like the pyramids, Sphinx ect. Will be around 1000 more years. It is something to think on! Thanks

    • Donna – Astree posted a link to the 2002 “The Time Machine” movie, starring Guy Pearce, on Forrest’s blog. There was a Sphinx in that movie, which is supposed to be set 800,000 years in the future. I agree with YOU! And I think H.G. Wells did, too. And how about those images on Mars of the mysterious face and the pyramid? How long have those been there, I wonder?

  110. To all,

    It appears the picture on the home page shows the chest is lined in wood. This has been on my mind for quite a while as I see the chest every time I log on.

    “in the wood I give you title to the gold”.

    Could the lined chest be “in the wood”?

    Just a thought.

  111. We all have to remember that until the TC is found no ones ideas are any better or worse than anyone elses

    • Perhaps Mr Fenn showed 9-clues..then the tenth would be the first (Location)..what if the words themselves have different meanings..souch as The canyon down – “Dawn Canyon” is there one out there named as such?

    • what are the nine clues?
      how about there are 3 clues each in stanzas 2, 4, and 6.

      in there- he says to take the canyon down. hint of riches new and old- there in the tc. no paddle up your creek, water high. what do you expect in a canyon over 5000 feet. im tired and weak- u will be too. i don’t see a clue there

      The one that gets me ” so hear me all and listen good” is this a clue? It says the same thing-redundant- u hear me all, u listen good. how can u listen to a poem?

      maybe it’s an echo———-

      • He chose every word for its significance.
        Question is how much effort are people willing to put in to figure out what those words mean?
        The poem starts with the first word so do the clues.

        • Deb, I’m not sure Forrest chose every word for its significance. I have a feeling he may have chosen some words just because they rhymed with the words that WERE significant. The trick is to try and figure out which are the significant ones. 🙂

          • CJ I am just as sure that he did. Thats why he said, dont mess with my poem. If you change the poem, you change the intended meaning.

          • Deb, where did you get the idea I wanted to change the poem? I think EVERY stanza is important and nothing should be thrown out. I also think the poem should be followed precisely and while I do not think the first stanza is a “clue” the way Forrest seems to have defined it, I think it is a strong Hint. I previously thought every sentence in the poem was a “clue” but after listening to Forrest’s definition of what he thinks a “clue” is, I now think differently. I think it was difficult for Forrest to construct a poem containing the clues he needed to include so someone could find the treasure, and that’s probably why it took 15 years to perfect. However, I still think some words in the poem were chosen for meter and rhyming purposes.

            Of course we all have our own way of interpreting the poem and what we think the 9 clues are. 🙂

        • Deb;
          If you use that premise for your search, you will never leave home.

          so answer my question. what is the significance or meaning of “so hear me all and listen good ” in your opinion?

          • Well if I told you that I might as well tell you my whole solve.lol

            I have found that everything in the poem has more than one meaning. That has two meanings also, one is to listen to what his words have told us. The other is to listen for a specific sound that has a meaning important to the solution to the poem.

          • Forrest said it was written for an unemployed redneck with six kids. To me that indicates a person who would not just jump in the truck risking what little money they had left on a whim. That person would have done all their research and headed out with determination and confidence that they were going to stay as long as it took to get the job done.

          • Emmett, I am always honest but I am also wise enough to know I dont have to tell all of my truth.Sound familiar? LOL

      • Emmett-
        I am also still contemplating the line “So hear me all and listen good.”
        I believe he wants us to listen for a sound rather than understand the meaning to his words IN THIS SENTENCE.
        An echo is a good example of my thoughts… as I may enter an enclosed area/canyon or he is suggesting a clue that requires listening for a faint sound.

        Well vs. good is the confusion for me in this case.
        I have know Idea how Mr. Fenn feels about this subject but always cringe when someone corrects me for saying “I feel good” or I apparently do not use good in the right context.
        I like to think that a well is something I can draw from and just maybe when I’m feeling good I am referring to my emotional well being.
        I am sure some English Major will correct me but the fact is… I feel good.
        Those are my thoughts. Maybe a little more than you wanted.

        • saftey joe;
          no can criticize a honest answer; especially one from the heart. I just have trouble with platitudes, like the poem begins with the first word….duh

          cjinca( who is from my area) makes a good point. you must separate the wheat from the chaff.

          I don’t know the answer- it must be in there for a reason- would he say “so listen all and listen good”? just to make good rhyme with wood? maybe, but that seems mighty simple.

          It occurred to me that maybe its an echo. in the canyon or a cave. Is that a clue?

          other opinions?

          • ok deb.
            finally got an honest answer. I don’t think the sound we’re listening for is a Grrrr.
            Brown Trout don”t make noise(maybe a splash) I wonder what ur listening for?
            Maybe ur mind thinking- tic toc? Mr Brown calling the cows?

            I too think the line is important, just wanted another opinion.
            lol

  112. If you want to be taken seriously dont use “duh”. Its rude and beneath you.

    There are many who disregard the whole first stanza when trying to solve the poem. That is why I made the point of stating not to throw it out.

    • sorry- just took you response wrong-
      Im not throwing any of the stanzas out. as I have gone in there alone( ie take the canyon down) I can keep my secrets where and hint of riches new and old” there’s pre Colombian jewels
      and a 1914 double eagle in the tc.
      I just don’t see a clue there

      We ARE looking for 9 clues.
      That is the tittle of this blog?

      Every word in the poem is important, but not every word is a CLUE. FF said”there are nine clues in the poem, if followed will lead you to the treasure”

      So- you don’t be rude to me, and i will reciprocate.
      lol. Emmett

    • I do apologize. My first impression was not to express myself that way. My personal experience is that the most beautiful spirits are born to the most beautiful people. God hand-delivers them. They are without flaw…unlike myself.

  113. Begin it where warm waters halt=Yellowstone lake
    And take it in the canyon down=Yellowstone Grand Canyon
    Not far but too far to walk=steep rugged trail down into canyon
    Put in below the home of Brown=Here is the name of the trail, and directions to go beyond the end of the trail….past the signs that say danger, do not go beyond this point…The trail name is Uncle Tom….
    From there its no place for the meek=you have to be brave to venture past the signs…perhaps the fox should dress like a hound here…P.R. uniform??
    The end is ever drawing nigh=you’re getting close
    There’ll be no paddle up your creek=if you fall…
    Just heavy loads and water high=you hit boulders and raging river..
    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze=Uncle Tom’s trail
    Look quickly down your quest to cease=on the ground at your feet at the edge of the drop off…where the real trail ends….perhaps under a log
    But tarry scant with marvel gaze
    just take the chest and go in peace

    Nine = signs is the nine clues……ready, get set, GO!!

    I know that my interpretation of the home of Brown could be offensive to some, perhaps even Forrest himself…Please do not take offense, when Forrest was growing up, I know for a fact this slur was commonly used. It is a logical point of view only…not meant to offend anyone, and I apologize in advance if I did.

    • I took this trip last year by the way…it wasn’t there, and Forrest is an animal if he made that trip twice in one day!! and it was prone to avalanches and rock slides too…and not the safest place…a toddler died on this trail I believe…

    • Mike that is very similar to one of the trails I have on my list.
      “Please do not take offense, when Forrest was growing up, I know for a fact this slur was commonly used. It is a logical point of view only…not meant to offend anyone, and I apologize in advance if I did.”
      I believe some people choose to ignore the past and miss the learning it gives us. Right, wrong or indifferent it is our history.

    • I would also consider one of the several Geysers in New Mexico that are north of Santa Fe and are well over the 5000 foot level.

  114. Most of my solves have flowed this way…simple ideas that make some sense…but perhaps just over reaches…I’m going back to square one with this…super simple one of three places in two different states…and going from there…

    • The yellowstone is a good pick warm water every were. Maybe the poem is talking about the course that a stream takes and if you can follow it you will come to were it ends or goes under ground and thats the spot. Anyone know of something like that in the yellowstone. ???

      • There is a place in NM where the river enters a hole in the ground and comes back up further down…no, I’m not telling where! It makes a gurgling sound as it goes into hole! Maybe that is what you are listening to…? Hum…(now I hear frantic typing key words into google…lol). ¥Peace¥

  115. I think that if something took 15 years to perfect most of the words are chosen for special meaning. Some clues are more important ff has said as much. I look for specific meaning in words for example halt is different then stop or slow. In what ways could this be a clue. why did ff pick it…

  116. PIECES-9…I agree with you completely… But I think that guessing at the first few clues will eventually lead you to the correct area, proof of this is the fact that two have “solved” the first two clues but went right past the chest. But you will not go with certainty, until you unravel the rest of the story…I have made 6 legitimate attempts to find the chest…actually 22, but16 were in Idaho and Utah 🙁
    It is certainly overwhelming when you see your spot for the first time…going without certainty makes it extremely unlikely you will come home with the chest…I caution others to save their money until they can go with at least reasonable certainty….go backwards in your mind and make sure you haven’t made any mental leaps of faith when interpreting the clues…have solid logical ideas…imagination is more important than knowledge, but KNOW what you are imagining is sound before you journey out…I have spent thousands of dollars travelling to locations on a hunch…and while I enjoyed every moment of it…I eventually learned that I will only find it when I have solved it all……with certainty.
    That is not to say I won’t still be wrong, as I was @ Lower Yellowstone Falls,
    but I went to A SPECIFIC LOCATION to look, I accomplished that search in three days round trip…I spent one entire day at Uncle Tom’s Trail… I felt confident it was not at that location before I left…this is VERY important…On MANY of my earlier trips I was unable to eliminate possible locations…what a wasted trip!! We need to be specific enough in our solves and/or searches, to be able to cross the location off our list with confidence….the only way to do that is to be specific in your solves in order to narrow down the spot to a size you can actually search!!
    Some of my solves terrify me, but they make so much sense!! I hate to think ff would place that beautiful treasure chest in water of ANY KIND….it disturbs my brain patterns at night to believe he could have done that…but that’s EXACTLY why he might have done just that….If he did, which some of my very logical solves conclude, he has absolutely no regard for the contents of the chest and whether or not it is found EVER…or even whether or not it stays intact…unless….??But I digress…THE KEY IS TO THINK>>>>AND ANALYZE>>>>>AND GO WITH CONFIDENCE>>>>IN THE END THE KEY IS CONTENTMENT.

    • Well I don’t believe in wasted trips, just learning curves and eliminations. Please take no offence but I also believe that it is possible to overlook something on the trail. The clues are subjective to a person’s interpretation so I figure the actual trail could be too.
      That being said, even though I was considering the Uncle Tom trail I may put it lower on my on my list now.

      • Callous…I absolutely agree… if it is buried is just one example… I feel confident it is not there…but freely admit I could have missed it…crawling over that fence is a scary deal…I spent as much time looking over my shoulder for park rangers as I did looking for the chest!!

  117. We all have our own theories and I respect all of them.

    I believe the solution to WWWH has to do with the history of the area and the current state of warm waters. What does Forrest consider warm waters? Are they hot springs, lake water, etc?

    The canyon is also important. Thousands of canyons in the Rockies but very few a favorite of Forrest. And why would it be a favorite of Forrest……fish. I don’t think he was a big hiker so the draw to the outdoors would be fishing.

    It appears Forrest loves to fish, collect and sale art and do archaeological work.

    If anyone can put these together I think they may have a good chance of solving the chase.

    • Not to change the subject but the Seahawks WON the super bowl, Now there is a chase that has has been going on for Decades. which proves that it can be achieved.

  118. WWWH what if thats meant to be like a policeman will halt traffic, so what would warm waters halt? warm waters halt the freezing of the river… something like that…

    • musstag, that’s a good example. A policeman halts the traffic, so your question should be, “What is it that halts the warm waters?”

      That is an important question we all are attempting to answer.
      Good Luck! 🙂

    • I think musstag is looking at that phrase differently, specialklr. I’ve looked at the phrase that way:
      Begin it (something) where warm waters halt and take it (something). The warm waters are taking action upon something else, kind of like the policeman musstag mentioned, halting traffic.

      The warm waters don’t themselves halt or are halted by something, the warm waters do the halting of something else and then take it, they halt-and-take ‘it’. It’s an interesting but odd language twist, and it works with the continuity of the first and second lines of stanza 2 (no comma).

      So warm waters halt and take it (something). And where do warm waters do this? In the canyon down. So;

      Begin it where warm waters both halt and take something in the canyon down, or
      Begin it where warm waters do this: temporarily stop + remove/carry-along something in the canyon down , or:
      begin it where the warm waters do these actions in the canyon down.

      I hope that’s clear and devoid of weirdness…

      So see where the interpretation takes you, musstag.

      SYand42lbsHeavier,
      Halogetter

      • Thank you Halogetter for your attempted explanation.
        If you can explain how traffic can halt a policeman, then I might be able to get my mind around how WW can halt something??? Can you give me an example of how water might halt something?

        Ockham’s razor would tell me that something halts the warm waters, not the other way around. It is the “where” that the waters are halted that is the beginning of the chase, isn’t it?

        I understand that part of the comprehension comes from ones interpretation of the two “it’s”. Again KISS, Mr. Fenn says not to complicate it.

        Best of Luck to all Searchers! 🙂

        • This is how I see WWH. Warm water halts when it goes down the canyon and joins with a cold water stream. Halt means stop. So the warm water stops, right when it joins and gets cold again.
          And that is what I think. Its all over Yellowstone and other parts of the Rocky Mountains. Lots of warm water….TONS

          • To all above,

            Forrest uses very specific words.

            Halt as per The American Heritage Dictionary: A suspension of movement or progress, a temporary stop; a pause.

            I have looked up in the dictionary every word of the poem.

            This has given me a better understanding of the poem.

            Hope this helps.

            Good luck to all.

        • Fwiw:
          Traffic halts a police officer trying to chase a criminal across the freeway. If the traffic is fast, the cop has to halt to keep from becoming roadkill.

          Or warm waters halt old man winter’s usual icy grip on water / warm waters halt Jack Frost. 😉

          • Good luck on that line of reasoning. 🙂

            Old man winter and Jack Frost are little affected by warm waters. As Yellowstone demonstrates, winter shuts most things down.

  119. Yes, as Halogetter explained. I know all about the many places that warn waters halt in a cold river, yata yata yata…. but this… This is where warm waters halt something else.

    THERE MAY be only ONE or two Places that this happens… Yes its like a fill in the blank test… where warrn waters halt _________________________ .

    Thats still simple enuff, its not over thinking…. Its something that water will halt, doesn’t take specific knowledge of the countyside, its something that happens…
    Think about it, maybe its wrong, but maybe it could provide your with that one place or type of place that most have not, only several, have come to find.

  120. The image below contains the poem and my annotations concerning what I believe Forrest means by the nine clues. I used Forrest’s own definition of a “clue” to arrive at this set of the nine clues. Forrest told us that a CLUE moves us closer to the chest. He did not say that a clue helps us find the chest…but rather “moves us closer”. I have used this narrow definition to try to come up with his nine clues.

    Many will disagree. Others will want to know where Forrest defined his concept of a clue. But I didn’t put this up to start an argument or hurt anyone’s feelings.

    In my opinion it almost does not matter what Forrest’s nine clues really are. There is certainly more information in the poem than the nine clues to help you find the chest. Forrest never said that only the clues are useful information in the poem..He simply said there are nine clues and when followed precisely, will take you to the chest. If you find something else useful in the poem..clue or not…I think you should use it..

    It is useful to have a construct for the nine clues since they lead you directly to the chest. But I think it’s fair to say that nearly everything in the poem can help you find it…but according to Forrest, only the clues move you a little closer on the trail each time you figure one out.

    http://dalneitzel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/nine-clues.jpg

    dal…

    • I like your logic on this…….it does help clarify the poem.

      I’ve got a question if you don’t mind (if I’m asking too much just ignore me).

      In reconciling Fenn’s statement about not going where an eighty year old man couldn’t go with the lines containing “meek”, “cold”, and “brave” means to me that the directions Fenn gives us to the chest is not necessarily the way he went to hide it.

      My question is how important is the superfluous information he has given us to the solution?

      For example if the nine clues fit perfectly but landed me in Utah or Idaho it’s safe to say I’m wrong. Does the solution have to make sense with the “meek”, “cold”, and “brave” lines to be a viable solution?

      • Goof-
        I agree that he probably took the most direct route to the hiding place when he hid the chest. This route is different than the route he maps out for us in the poem. But I also think that the fifth stanza points out that he has done this route before and he was tired at least once when he did it…and he won’t do it now because he is weak.

        Another interesting point that seems appropriate to point out at this time is that Forrest writes in the poem that we should take “it” in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk. Doesn’t this fit in nicely with the principle story in his latest book, Too Far To Walk? He tells us in that story that he did walk a lovely trout stream, fishing as he went. It was beautiful and he would like to do it again,. but now it is too far to walk. So…in the poem he makes it appear that there is an alternative. Maybe we don’t have to walk it…it’s to far to walk…too far for whom???? Maybe not for you and for me…

        I think the terms meek, brave and cold are all subjective. To an agoraphobic leaving the house is a frightening proposition and would certainly require a stout heart and dealing with the devil…bravery. To an active mountain climber a walk along a narrow canyon ledge where I could not force my feet to tread, might be a piece of cake. I think it’s common knowledge that mountain streams are cool…brrrr…cold to some…

        In my opinion Forrest used those descriptors because they are appealing to those who have a desire for adventure. Those people he wanted to attract to the hunt. To some the search may require personal bravery. To others it may not…or at least it may not seem as if it requires any sort of bravery.

        I think that the “superfluous” info…the info in the poem which is not a direct clue can be useful but only if it is interpreted in the same spirit in which it was written…

        So that’s my interpretation..and I’m sticking to it til at least Wednesday…

        • Thanks for the response Dal……….What you say makes sense. I hadn’t thought of the line “I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak” as being two different times in his life. And it does fit nicely with his book “Too Far To Walk”.

          So what do you think of his statement about not going where an eighty year old man couldn’t go. That statement doesn’t seem to fit this line of thinking. Is he saying the way I’ve described to the chest in the poem is difficult, but the actual hiding spot is easy to get to if you can figure it out?

          • Goof-
            Yes..I think so..
            But I think there is something else too…

            I think when Forrest originally made this trip he was young and he was fishing, as the principle story in the TFTW book points out. He had no trouble walking in that stream for many miles….a few days even. A three year old would not be safe walking in that stream…I suspect Forrest would no longer be comfortable walking it either…Too far for Forrest anymore…but you don’t have to do it the way he originally did it. You could drive or hike along the river most of the way. That’s the way a smart 80 year old would do it today. He never tells us to get in the water..he just says “Take it in the canyon down.” If my choice was drive..or walk..or float…and I had an 80 year old with me who wasn’t keen on the walk or the float…I’d drive…to just below the home of Brown. I might have to be brave to walk it. Maybe it’s no place for the meek..or the 80 year old or the three year old. It might be cold as well…

            dal…

          • Really interesting………..Like I said, I hadn’t split it up like that. So keeping with this scenario like in TFTW he would be in the river/stream making this trek when he was young.

            Does this mean that “put in” means to get out of the river/stream below the home of Brown?

          • Goof-

            So this is kind of interesting. It works either way…
            If you are in the water you need to get out at that point and if you took the trail or the road I believe he is telling you to cross the stream at that point… But the thing is..Forrest didn’t float that river. He walked it with his raft tied to his belt. His raft had his camping gear and water. As he walked in the stream his raft followed him…
            By my simple uncalculating mind that would be impossible in the area he describes in Too Far To Walk…

          • That’s true it could work either way……..I wonder which way the poem describes.

            In my younger days I’ve walked streams for miles just to explore. It’s a wonderful feeling to come upon a beautiful spot on the river and think I might be the only person on the planet that knows it’s there……….

            I take a seat on a comfy rock just to admire the spot for awhile; and right before I’m about to make my first cast a van-mom pulls up with a load of kids, dogs, and inner tubes……..that road wasn’t on the map.

            You gotta laugh……