The Poem…Part Two


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Here is Forrest reading his poem, The Thrill of the Chase. If you have not memorized the poem…don’t be concerned…neither has Forrest apparently…

777 thoughts on “The Poem…Part Two

  1. There are certainly more than I can fathom, but I did notice that in Fenn’s Taos Event at Moby Dickens bookshop, as part of the discussion he recited parts of two other poems: The first was a passage from Alice in Wonderland and the second the last stanza of the poem, “Invictus,” both of which had exactly the same structure, rhyming pattern and meter as the poem Fenn wrote.

  2. I never thought about the phonetics of the poem and how it sounds if there is a word for that. I do know that with the Alice in Wonderland poem he really enunciated the words beautifully. When he says hear me well…maybe there’s something to the sound.

    • Hmmmm, I never gave this much thought. I have studied his voice, his expressions, and his body language in all of the videos. The man is a tough read! Good for him, but bad for us! I did notice he pronounces one word in the poem much different from what I would expect. I’m not sure it will really assist a searcher. Also, a BIG CONGRATULATIONS to the raffle winner. I share in your excitement! Enjoy and treasure your prize forever.

        • A poem about the ‘virtues’ of deception, predatory practices. Mocking conventional wisdom about children.
          It’s odd that Carroll chose the word Golden to describe the scales in line 4. Why not emerald? Gold. Nice choice, Mr. Fenn
          However, I think the most clue-likely part of that poem is the reference to the Nile river and little fishes.
          The Nile being the greatest river of the ancient western world: The greatest/longest river in North America is one that goes through the Rockies in our treasure hunt map area — the Missouri. In fact, there’s a dam, crossing right where Lewis & Clark once travelled, that ‘halts’ the warm waters of the great Missouri to where the current is known unperceivable: at the Holter (Halter?) dam, which also is the single most popular spot for fishing in the entire state of MT.
          I’ll leave it to you to all to figure out which two breeds of fish dominate there.

          • Mapsmith – The virtues of deception. And Crocodiles. And the Nile River. That made me think of Chriss Angel, the magician, who used to have a show on A&E (and beautiful, Long, dark hair ^), and an office at the Luxor in Las Vegas, which looks Like a pyramid ^. Mis-direction is his specialty,…and he Loves “Houdini”,..which is probably why. I AM Sirius about finding the gold, and I may need to consult a “Holt-er” that get the,..Dam, I mean. FYI that there is a great mining museum, if you’re going to that area, in nearby Butte, Montana. I don’t know which highway you take, to get across the Missouri River, though, to get there.

          • Mapsmith – If folks want to know more about the greatest-ancient-western-world Nile River, and how it might relate to that area of the greatest-longest-in-North America Missouri River,..and about a Lewis Carroll river reference, ..and about llittle fishes,..well, one breed, anyway,.. they might enjoy the historical fiction novel, “Nefertiti”, by Michelle Moran. I AM hapy to refer this author to everyone…paying it forward, as it were. Her Egyptian husband certainly found the “blaze”, but that didn’t make a lot of people hapy, especially the priests. My ex-husband used to call me “Karnak”, but not in reference to the temple near Thebes (now Luxor), but instead referring to the routine Johnny Carson used to do, with the turban on his head. Go figure…

          • Mapsmith – Regarding the golden vs. emerald scales, mentioned in line four, of Lewis Carroll’s, “How Doth the Little Crocodile” poem,…you may enjoy reading the lyrics of Diana Ross’s version of a song I found about Oz: “Emerald City Sequence, Emerald City Green”. Let me know what you think.

    • “How Doth the Crocodile?” is one of Carroll’s parodies of existing poems. In the book, Alice is misquoting another original poem.

      “Crocodile” is a parody of an old poem by Isaac Watts, which spoke of the moralistic virtue of hard work of the busy bee, and how children should strive to be like the bee.

      Carroll slyly reversed the poem to be about a crocodile and presented a beautiful ode to deception! How appropriate for the poem and the chase. Alice’s adventures are full of deception, and are lusciously wicked in many ways.

      Forrest did annunciate the Crococile poem elegantly, Steph, and it really made him smile like a kid.


      • That was a good year for poetry.
        Walter ‘Walt’ WHitman’s “pioneers, O pioneers” , was the same year — alluding to the GOLD rush. 🙂

        Plus “O captain my captain” about honest Abe.

        Interesting that if you combine /sum ‘How doth the little crocodile” and the stanzas of ‘Invictus’, you get 6 stanzas and 24 lines like FF’s poem. Not quite the same number of syllables to each line, but not too far off.

      • Halo – I really twisted my brain, when I read a recent Lewis Carroll story selection about Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee, which ends with Alice finding a door in a tree and going down a staircase. I think the characters in my Dan Brown book are looking for a staircase like that right now..I prefer finding a “Stairway to Heaven” myself 🙂

        • E*
          You must be a fan of Led Zeplan. Forrest never mentioned what type of music he enjoys. It would be interesting to know if he likes the group Chicago.

          • Pam – The lead singer from that band is around my area a lot. I like that band, but what song are you referring to? A friend gave me his Christmas CD, which he gave to her..paying it forward, as it were.

          • Pam – I just viewed a beautiful video of that Chicago song, and read the lyrics..beautiful! The line about the tears reminded me that “where warm waters halt” could refer to the end of tears being shed (as in when Forrest cried after being kicked out of that military school his friends were attending).

          • Fenn did cry to long as he went to the local Junior College, the college he said he never went to:)

          • E*,
            Perhaps, but for me it has a very special and personal meaning. I’m glad you enjoyed it.

          • Terence – did Forrest really attend his local junior college? Was that said in one of his books or on a blog?

          • Pam – In thinking about poems, and song lyrics, and Peter Cetera, and correct punctuation, and saving space on blogs (so as not to kill trees), I looked up the Ellipses and the use of, “Et cetera et cetera etc.” Anyone interested in poetry and song lyrics, and saving trees, might enjoy doing that, too 🙂

          • Pam – I love Peter Cetera, Chicago, and that song YOU love. I didn’t mean to diminish that, and how much I loved those lyrics, or how beautiful the video was 🙂

          • Pam – In summary,…I have to mention,… that when I researched Ellipses,…I remembered some lengthy printouts I did at the local library, about the North Star (Polaris), Declination, Stellar Parallax, etc. And that made me think of Giordano Bruno, and his improved heliocentricity theories. I really appreciate that Forrest put those (…) lines on the map for us, in “too far too walk”, and that someone mentioned that 10% figure; the one about the time, when he most probably hid the chest. I am still calculating all that…

          • E*,
            Many wonder when FF hid the chest. It would be nice to know, but I am more interested in knowing if there are two chest. I would also like to know if F was a Boy Scout. It is the BSA 104th Birthday Feb. 8

      • Lowi – And it’s “and listen good”. I think they go together, and that the wording is important in both word groups. And I think that the word “good” should be emphasized.

        • Re; Jr College. We found that in a Jan 1969 article in a Lubbock paper. The Lubbock Avalanche or something like that.

  3. My poem notes:
    1. Homonyms puns and doubleentendre abound (new/knew, they’re/there, wear/where, creak/creek);
    2. Words with doubleletters appear seemingly too often (see what I did there?) -15?;
    3. mismatched /sloppy rhyme between Halt & Walk– why?;
    4. the POV seems to change from first person to second to first.
    5. Why does meter change (when it rarely does) from 8 syllables per line? (In poetry-geek terms: why vary from the octameter by cutting short the foot / why the catalexis– especially on line 7? Also : why invert the iambic , when he does? )

    • I see I have a lot of poetic words to look up. 🙂 Here I thought he was just looking for words that rhymed!

      Thanks for the questions Map, gives me a lot more to think about. He did say all you need is the poem so there may very well be more clues in it than we see at first glance.

    • Mapsmith:
      1. Homonyms puns and double entendre abound (new/knew, they’re/there, wear/where, creak/creek);
      –Yes, and I was first struck by the odd use of contractions, which are typically avoided in poems where formality might tend to rule. Forrest gives the poem an older, more archaic tone, yet he freely uses those (sometimes awkward) contractions. Also, the letters that are saved due to the use of contractions are: iwihaha + missing x = 9. Iwihaha is apparently not a Tiwa word. The use of contractions also alters the syllabic structure- see your item 5 below.

      2. Words with double letters appear seemingly too often (see what I did there?) -15?;
      –I don’t think the double letters appear too often; they’re just right.

      3. Mismatched /sloppy rhyme between Halt & Walk– why?;
      –That is the odd pair of near-rhyme words. I feel here he absolutely needed halt and walk, and did not need to make the rhyme perfect. The word halt is paramount. Or the t and k can mean something else… He worked on it for 15 years and left it just like that, and hid it when he was 73, err I mean 79. Sorry…

      4. The POV seems to change from first person to second to first.
      –Right, and the tense changes in very interesting ways, and coupled with whether he is talking about himself or you, the searcher, it is a strange dynamic.

      5. Why does meter change (when it rarely does) from 8 syllables per line? (In poetry-geek terms: why vary from the octameter by cutting short the foot / why the catalexis– especially on line 7? Also : why invert the iambic , when he does? )
      –I’ve analyzed the structure of the syllables and question the reason for the diversion from holding to the 8, other than to make the poem perfect for other reasons that it needed to be just that way.

      Forrest holds to rules when they are useful and then breaks them to make it work his way.


      • Great thoughts Halo!
        Yes, contraction use is supercrazy, though my gut says its just to hit syllable counts ‘right’.
        The letters skipped : tons of fun down that rabbit hole. .. 🙂 Now take what I wrote about 1&2, mixed with what you wrote about 1&2, (and for the moment table the Tiwa idea) : all those letters are doubled: Double h, double i, double a,
        & double-u

        Anagrams to “hi, Au ..hi, Au”

        ‘Hello gold’


        There’s only one problem: there’s a third a.

        • Map – looking at the periodic table to research some things on Forrest’s blog was fun today. Not going down that grammar rabbit hole again, either! Circumpucts, symbols from that table..”Hello gold” is right!

        • Mapsmith – Oh,..H-E-Double-Tooth-Picks! I don’t think it’s “tons of fun”, down the grammar “rabbit hole”,…and I am NOT going, “alone in there”,…again,…like Alice did,…in Lewis Carroll’s stories! As a promising storm came in on Doppler Radar,…I was sitting at THE restaurant,…when I heard a waiter and customer say, “No,…your name can’t be ‘Thane’, too,…can it? Is that a Doppelganger???

  4. Map I had a poly sci teacher whose intellectual level was that of a mapsmith…I didn’t understand him either…smiles.
    I’ll get back to work.
    Map what do you think…is an accord possible?

    • Mark – I am doing my best to contribute to this Socratic discussion. I think Map is, too. Hey, Socrates was married to a woman that Shakespeare used as the model for his “Taming of the Shrew”. My casting agent really should have placed me in the role of Kate. My previous car was a Sherwood Forrest Green Honda Accord…apropos..I have always liked making equitable agreements 🙂

  5. Ok Map thats just scary smart observation. I dont know if I am going that deep into it. 🙂

    • I agree Deb! Forrest said don’t complicate it. But wait! Don’t tell them that! They will still be in a stanza fog and we will be driving to Forrest’s house with the treasure!

      • Donna – maybe Forrest said don’t complicate it, because it is complicated enough already?! 😉

  6. I’ve never posted here before, but I have followed along on many threads. I have always found the poem to be unnecessarily awkward, particularly “I can keep my secret where,” “But tarry scant with marvel gaze,” and “I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.” For awhile I searched for anagrams (that was a wild goose chase), because it seemed so awkward to me, and I reasoned that that was the case because it was an anagram of the actual clues (my approach was verse by verse), and because he’d taken so long to write it. I still think there is something more to it than the plain language of the poem. As I’m sure everyone agrees, “Begin it where warm waters halt” can be interpreted many (probably thousands) of ways, and while the clues that follow would eliminate many places, it would be nearly impossible to identify where to start, meaning you’d really have to pull hundreds of threads at a minimum to see where they lead. So, I’m convinced there is some kind of key or pointer in the poem that is subtle or coded.

    • Barbara – I think we’ll have better luck with some sort of cypher, substitution (or elimination) code, or acrostics than anagrams. The phrases, aside from the 3 odd /awkward ones (about which I totally agree) are too ‘natural’ to also be likely anagrams IMO

      • Map – But, if it IS an anagram, could it be in Latin? I have been reading too much Dan Brown, chasing rainbows, and eating lots of apples lately 🙂

        • E; the only areas I think could be legit /likely anagrams are either the three ‘awkward phrases’ mentioned earlier
          or if , and this is the proverbial big If, there’s some sort of letterbox type code, where you have to know just the right words (or letters) to use as ingredients for the anagram.
          Dan Brown as a home of brown is moving higher in my hit list of Browns ….though its a long list 🙂
          Still say its more likely a play on words. Ex: Brownsville TX is a ‘home’ to some. Below would be Mexico. A grand river. And Matamoros (named after a hero, whose remains are now in the independence column aka El Angel).
          Or it could just be Jim Brown, finder of gold, which would tie to line 4 nicely.

          • Map – I am just hoping it is NOT “Bad, Bad, Leroy Brown”…I don’t want to “put in” below HIS home to find the treasure! And Grizzly Bears ARE Brown bears btw…I printed all the sites I found to prove that. On one, I clicked on the link for the word “bruin” and found a very old middle english poem about Regnart or Reynard the Fox. I posted a spoken word recording reference, that I found under the popular Norse word “revyld”, that relates to this story (done by Morgan Freeman). Now there is a book out by the two Norse guys who recorded a youtube video about said fox. Very cute book..

          • Yup: bruin means brown means bear. and Browns, Grizzlies and Kodiaks all have the same DNA– Just different diets and environments give them their different appearances/sizes. Scientists most often refer to the species as Brown though. We’ve got Grizzlies here in the Seattle area (well,about 100 miles NE, anyway), though they don’t get much press this is the only major grizzly habitat in the lower48 outside of YNP and GlacierNP. Had a friend who was mauled by one, so I got over-researched on the subject after that.
            Grizzlies are an excellent candidate for ‘home of Brown’
            though my mind has been working on an underdog idea the last week and half: that Brown was capitalized just for fun / to mess with us.

          • Map-
            In the USA, the North Cascades Grizzly Bear Recovery Area is only the largest by a few hundred square miles. It is also the least populated with only about 15 bears. If your friend was mauled in the North Cascades in the USA he is lucky indeed to have even found one of the secretive bruins in our neck of the woods.

            I worked with bear experts and wildlife biologists for several years collecting footage of grizzly bears all along the eastern front of the Rockies from the Selkirks down to the Bitterroots and into Yellowstone and Glacier.
            The end result was a documentary about ranchers and bears co-existing in the most grizzly bear prolific region of the country.

          • Consider it either an omission/embellishment: no, TJ was mauled in Yellowstone. He’d done 2 fool things: hike alone and approach cubs.
            Fwiw: Scott Fitkin with DoFW, about 2 yrs back was saying we’re up to about 20 on our side of the border, and another 30 north of the border.
            Majestic , and deadly, animals.

          • Yellowstone is where camped with his to try and figure where he went three or fours years ago when he hid it? He took a long trip, somewhere on the trip across country is where it lies!

          • If he hid it in yellow stone, find out where his family hid there gear every year that no one ever found..there is most likely where it is..if not there its a crapshoot!

          • E: fyi: there IS a Leroy Brown related to the rockies, an Olympic athlete (Silver medalist).
            From Golden, CO

          • if one can figure out “Begin where warm waters halt” My first thought a faucet:)\
            Next a hot spring, maybe it was there once was a hot spring, and it no longer spouts hot water – that in it self would be where warm water halts!

          • Map – your hero comment reminded me of St. James Matamoros, who is the patron saint of Spain, and whose statue presides over the destination of the pilgrims who walk the El Camino there ( like Shirley MacLaine did).

          • Terrence – When you mentioned the cave where Forrest’s family stored their gear, and the word, “crapshoot”, I thought of the 4-5 Nine roll in craps. It was named after Jesse James, because he was killed with a .45 caliber pistol. I liked the blaze he used to mark a few places where he buried HIS treasure!

          • Mapsmith;
            This old guy is 100% old school with some ruff edges:)

            TERENCE <- notice ONE R:)

          • Mapsmith – Your underdog idea sounded very intriguing to me. My historically recurrent theory involves another creature, that migrated over that same land bridge, from Siberia to Alaska, and on down, together with the Brown Grizzes, along the Alaskan coast.

          • Terentius – You don’t mind if I call you that, do you? John Adams and Maya Angelou would think it was great. I probably used too many rrr’s, because I was saying, Aarrgghh!, a lot. Sorry. You spoke of a spigot with hot water, and of Forrest’s family and their hidey spot for their gear, which reminded me of the picture in TTOTC of his family home in Yellow Stone, with the water pump out front. He said his Dad used the metal container to shave, I think. But Forrest either went to the hot spring to bathe, or to the facility at the Union Pacific Railroad to shower (for privacy reasons). I am pretty sure that pump at the house didn’t dispense hot water,…that they boiled it and poured it into the bathtub, as was the custom in those days. But maybe that IS “where warm waters halt”, then? And now I am remembering the final scene of Season 1 of the cable TV series, “Da Vinci’s Demons”,…and the name of that ship,…and where they were headed,…was Leonardo looking for the Gold, too???

          • A bathtub might very well be a place to begin where WWH. Not a literal one, but if you put bathtub as a keyword into the usgs site, you’ll see plenty of hits in the Rockies. The trick is filtering so you don’t throw out the proverbial baby ( named TC)

        • Map-
          “Majestic , and deadly, animals.”…
          Hmmm…same thing could be said about humans…
          Except the majestic part..

          • Hey, I’m pretty darned majestic, Dal. You should see my mullet… it’s like the tail of a peacock… only monochromatic.

    • He said there was no code to the poem, just study and THINK ( and reading his book will help too!).

      • Donna – I noticed you say, “THINK” a lot, so I looked up the acronym, which you know I like to do:

        Taking Hazards Into New Knowledge
        The Happiness I Never Knew
        There’s Hope in North Korea
        Thoughtful, Honest, Intelligent, Necessary, Kind
        Thinking Hard Inspires New Knowledge
        True Helpful Inspiring Necessary Kin

        I hope you like the list 🙂

  7. Maybe I’m missing something by not going so deep into analyzing the poem. I’m deeply focused on just trying to decode it. I’ve recited it over a hundred times and get better at his unique cadence. As far as what rhymes perfectly or not, I simply call it Poetic Justice.

    • Wild Cat – Poetic Justice…as in, like, Elsa, the Nazi agent, in “Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade”…and the quest for the grail, maybe? What happened to her was certainly Poetic Justice. Forrest likes that movie franchise, I think.

      • Wild Kat – And because you said “deep” and “deeply”, I researched “The Canyon of the Crescent Moon” from that movie, and ended up in Jordan, surrounding Petra. A diary was the key…

  8. I agree Barbara. There must be a key or code somewhere, otherwise the “clues” are too nonspecific.
    It struck me today, a person is more likely to find ancient artifacts or other treasure than Fenn’s chest given the non-specificity of his “clues.”
    Find the key. That’s the ticket.

    • I am not a believer in the anagram theories nor the numerology theories nor in the cryptic code theories. I believe it’s as simple as Forrest has told us-
      “Begin where warm waters halt and the poem will take you directly to the treasure”
      Many searchers try starting in the middle..or from the home of Brown..
      This seems simpler because we can all figure out hundreds of solutions for the home of Brown…
      But “where warm waters halt” is a lot trickier…It’s not a history or geology or geography lesson many of us have ever considered before..

      Often, the folks who start randomly at a favorite “home of Brown” cannot explain how to get to their “home of Brown” by following the earlier clues in the poem…and are therefore most likely at the wrong “home of Brown”…
      In fact..I doubt that any of us will accurately “guess” Forrest’s home of Brown first. In my opinion his home of Brown is simply no more obvious than anything else in the poem…

      I also believe that many, many folks have figured out the first two or three clues in the poem..
      and I think the reason they get lost after that is because the directions take a different tact after Home of Brown…
      That is to say..the poem’s directions get a little more complicated to follow…

      I guess another way to say this is that the first two or three clues in the poem are direct..but then the location finding takes a slightly different twist…the clues still lead to points..but how you use those points changes..

      So what happens is people figure out the first two or three clues..just as Forrest has indicated…but then either mess up at Home of Brown..or even get that clue but certainly mess up right after that…and after a year of not getting anywhere…simply give up and figure they do not have the first three right…when they really did…

      ie..I think the directions are straight forward through Home of Brown..then things get a little more complicated…but most people continue on, trying to follow the next several clues just as they did in the first few…and that does not work…
      That is not how they can be followed at that point…

      That does not mean I think I have cracked the poem…not at all..
      It just means I have been banging my head against it for quite a while and I think I really and truly get the first few clues…
      As do hundreds of others on this blog and who I have met in places I look…
      But I think I screwed up continuing in a linear fashion, point to point, after Home of Brown…

      The poem continues to give you directions and the points are real places…but how you use them is slightly different…

      I think at that point you have to employ a different sort of “location finding” technique, using the clues, to get to the location of the chest..
      Anyway..I am eager to try my ideas out in the spring..

      I hope I don’t sound like I think I know where it is…I do not…
      The only thing I think I know right now are the first two or three clues..
      and like everyone else..I thought I had them early on..and then could not make sense of anything beyond them and so I decided I was wrong and went looking elsewhere…
      But this past summer…I returned to those early ideas…to give them another look…and I think I was right…and so are hundreds..perhaps thousands of others..

      If I am correct, the first two/three clues are as obvious as they seem…
      But after that the way you use the points in the poem that you discover…changes…and may change again even later in the poem…I have not gotten that far…

      But I am eager for the snow to melt and I am saving up to spend a lot of time testing my theory this spring/summer/fall…


      • I am eager too, for the snow to melt. The days are getting longer. Feels like that time is coming soon. YAY….

        • Lou Lee-
          I know some folks are out looking right now in remote areas of WY and MT above 7,000 feet and that is just poor judgement…

          But my momma didn’t raise no fool..

          And Forrest didn’t put it where a person can locate it easily in the summer…certainly not in the frozen winter..under snow..

          I went out searching in winter one year and really was lucky I didn’t freeze to death..

          Okay…maybe my momma did raise a

          Anyway..this year I will wait til I can have fun..

          In’t that what this is supposed to be about??

          • Fun, Fun, I had the best time hunting and even when I did not find it. I was still happy to have done it, nothing is too small to know…lol
            I would or wood….hunt in winter, with snow shoes and a metal detector, if I was more sure of a location. However I think finding the Blaze, might be a problem. I think finding the Blaze is the challenge, not “seeing it” but FINDING IT….not easy.
            I am getting all my gear ready and organized.

      • I agree Dal, but do you think we should ignore “as I have gone alone in there”? I know the clues start where warm waters halt, but he tells the reader he has gone alone “in” there. Do we need to focus on where in there is located?

        • I can’t say what others should or should not do…
          I can only say what I believe…
          and I may very well change my mind in the next few weeks..or seconds…

          I believe the first stanza is a preface. Just like the preface or forward to a book. Sure it contains useful background information but the content does not begin until the second stanza. Forrest has even said that we should “…start at the beginning…where warm waters halt…”.

          But that is my opinion…and many, many others feel otherwise…

          • …. I too believe, that the 1st stanza is only a prelude to what comes after…as far as anagrams and mystical #’s theories, I just do not see that working out either. My opinion is that the poem is literal, and that whoever solves it will have worked their butt off…wwwh is where Forrest has said to begin.. I think I just copied Dal !

          • Ah, but what if we’re ALL right? 😉

            Codes, letter boxing, anagrams, acrostics, doublemeanings, homonyms and coordinates… And yet also straightforwardness. Could be a little something for everyone. (That’s how Bill Shakespeare made his works, so why not?)

            Wouldn’t that be a kick!!

            I can get a lot of fine-tuning done in 15 YEARS (most/many full length books are written in 3-6 months), –I imagine Forrest, clearly obsessive about treasures of various kinds, could too.
            Also , he may arguably not be a poet, but he’s obviously taken serious time to study great poets. I can’t recite Carroll, or Invictus, or TS Eliot or others from memory… Can you? :). So I think if nothing else, he’s a pretty serious student of poetry for someone who’s head, I would imagine, oughta already be full of fighter pilot/artifact collector/art gallery-owner stuff.

          • map-
            Pretty fun thought!!
            Forrest does write in rhyming verse from time to time..
            I certainly don’t know how much but I have seen many other poems he has penned…many are humorous…intended to be so…
            Some are romantic..
            I guess this isn’t anything that will help us find the chest but in truth…he likes to write poetry..
            I need to ask him how long he has been doing that!!!

        • If it were one of those beer bottle cap puzzles (..said the old bohemian), then that first line might mean ” as “i” goes IN There — making There= Their”

          • Mapsmith…attention to detail(to the nth degree) We ARE all right until someone proves us wrong…

      • Me too Dal. The snow cant melt soon enough and I am off to not only discover the chest, but give ff a long awaited message.

      • He did say some got the first three clues right and didn’t understand the importance of where they were at on the others, that is how they were 500ft from the treasure and missed it. Brown could be a big beautiful field of Indian Paint Brush, all red with green stems =brown.

        • Hi Donna, Where did he say 3? I only heard 2 and I never heard that the one’s who figured that out where 500 feet. I do think he said they walked right by…so they probably were…but just trying to keep my list of quotes from him correct.

        • I recall the quote was (paraphrasing!) the 2 or 3 searchers had passed within 500′ without realizing it, and various quotes had FF saying that either
          Other searchers had gotten the first 2 clues right, or
          those Same 2 or 3 had also gotten 2 clues right. There WERE contradicting quotes.

          Someone really ought to create a bibliography of ironclad-accurate FF quotes with video/quote links so we can stop arguing over the specific words. 😉 aka so we stop playing an unintended game of Telephone. ;D

          • 500-ft from the treasure – does one realize how far 500′ is, longer than the length of a football field (300′)……I wonder if old Fenn has live google earth?

      • Dal,
        You will either go broke feeding Esmeralda or find the treasure by attrition. Good Luck. 🙂

        • Figure out where “Gone alone in there ” in there!! IN -water, hole,cave,shaft,mine,doorway,closet,junkyard, someplace where you would not normally go by yourself!

          • Well, may be he thought that it was really stupid to go “alone on a hike in a place where bears are running wild”, but then again, if he thought he was dying from cancer, may be he was OK with that exit option.. (meaning “fighting a bear and losing badly”). I was just thinking of that 1994 movie called “Legends of the Fall”, with Anthony Hopkins and Brad Pitt, in which Hopkins plays a rough and tough Montana rancher, who, after a long and rugged life experience, dies “a good death” by fighting a grizzly bear.

            So, in that sense, the “home of Brown” could be both the “home of brown bears and brown trout”, as in “overlapping areas”, if you insist on making a double entendre (double meaning) out of so many items in the poem.

            I think I should watch that movie again, along with “A river runs through it” and “the Horse Whisperer” , for inspiration.

            But then again, there is a “Brown National Park” in Colorado, and “brown trout” are stocked all over the place in Rocky Mountain fishing holes, so, uhm, gee, yeah! (Throwing up hands gesture added).

            Is anyone getting any closer?

          • Fenn like most of us would be packing heat (weapon) going into the forest or desert..I always take my faithfull .44mag. I still think he went in some sort of cave or mine.

          • Woof-up: I posted on the Nine Clues blog, that it was Brad Pitt’s character, Tristan, who dies a good death by his nemesis, the Grizz. He gave that Grizz a good fight then, and when he took his bear claw with his knife, when he was young. Anthony Hopkins did have a close call with a Grizz, though, in the movie, “The Edge”, which was about a plane crash in the Alaska wilderness.

          • Woof-up: Thanks for the reminder about “The Horse Whisperer” movie. I loved that one, and I can’t believe the actress, who was thrown from the horse, is so much older now (she was in “The Prestige”, with Hugh Jackman, which involved Tesla’s ideas). I am not much of a horsewoman, so I may need to call the real Buck, before I “Buck up” to go get the treasure!

    • wabisabi – I just thought of The Pathological Liar character from “Saturday Night Live”, who always said, “Yeah! That’s the Ticket!”. Yeah, that’s right. “Find the key”. And there are no Grizzes anywhere…yeah, that’s right!

      • wabisabi – I tried to post something really funny; an excerpt from the “SNL” script from a routine involving Jerry Hall, Mick Jagger, and “The Pathological Liar”. I was deemed “invalid” again…boo hoo! But you can find it online pretty easily. I didn’t want anyone killing trees to print it, anyway. It involves fishing… 🙂

      • Thanks for telling me that it was Brad Pitt who went to fight the bear in “legends of the fall”. That movie is probably 20 years old by now, and I forgot who did what.
        I better go and get a VCR version of it at the “free store” and look at it again.

        And speaking of SNL, I remember a skit with Mike Myers, wherein he makes fun of japanese comedies, and the recurring theme is – ‘he has to go fight the bear’ –
        Just plain goofy – but fun.

        • Woof_up: My new occupation is reading “SNL” scripts. Excellent! I liked Michael Myers a lot on that show, especially when he imitated Barbara Streisand. He was a time traveller, with Sean Penn, in a funny movie, too. When I read the part about Ronald Reagan, I thought of the picture in TFTW of him climbing into the window of room #4 at the Dude Motel in West Yellowstone. Now THAT was funny! I am sure Skippy and Donnie used Reagan’s visit to their motel as an excuse to bump up the price even higher 🙂

  9. Along the way I have read and reread the poem hundreds of times, literally. When I felt overwhelmed by the shear madness of trying to feel comfortable w/ the awkwardness of the poem, I would delve into everything Fenn related. I held off buying the TTOTC until 2 weeks ago. The history of the entire search area has been my main focus for almost a year. Periodically I would test the poem in my mind again. I have always had one favorite wwwh, but have dismissed it in favor of a couple of others and even made multiple searches to one area. The last 2 or 3 months my understanding of the poem had me hovering in one particular area. As of Monday, a couple of tidbits clicked after reading the book and now I am solidly bound to one significant spot. The poem is literal(IMO) and very vague by design. Don’t misinterpret me folks, I have been wrong before and will be again; just maybe not about my new treasure island…

    • I know your spot. And good luck with it, for the treasure does lie below the rainbow…in ALOT of wood!

      • Donna – And there may be a pond pitfall in that wood, so ken had better bring at least two friends to join him! And they better “take the chest and go in peace”. I”m just sayin’…

        • Donna and ken – And if either of you go at night,…oh, say,…at midnight,…under the full moon,…with shovels (see: Stephanie),… watch out for the “skeeterhawks”, and don’t yell, “ouch” really loud,…when they bite you. I’m just sayin’…

          • I’ve moved on from shovels a little. Now I think maybe you just need to scoop up some sand with your hands 😉 Those are free and easier to dig.

  10. Thought of the week:

    Put in below the home of Brown.
    Forrest said there is a big clue in To Far to Walk that he didn’t notice until after it was printed.

    Hmm….look at the map in the book.
    Tribal is colored Brown.
    Could Forrest have missed this first and then after reading the poem and looking over noticed the correlation between his clue of “Brown” and “Tribal” being colored brown(ish).

    Could home of Brown mean below Tribal lands?

    • thats a great thought! I just purchased TTOTC and wish i have gotten to far to walk instead..whooops

      • Yea, goofd thought. Certainly he knows the color codes on a map like the back of his hand. I’m not so sure it would of been a surprise for him. An incidental finding no doubt. Don’t know if he wants to prompt people to cross any sacred land.

        Devils advoctae

        • liv42dy – Carpe Diem! I just remembered the scene from, “Jeremiah Johnson”, where Robert Redford has to go on horseback, across sacred Crow or Blackfeet territory, because he is asked to by cavalry soldiers, who are trying to rescue a wagon train, which has been trapped in the snow. The tribal lands they cross are an indian burial ground, which his character knows is NOT a good idea. They save the wagon train, but it does not turn out well for the character, personally. 🙁

      • Dont you believe he would have noticed that he wrote that before getting it printed? I think it has to be more subtle than that..just a thought…

  11. Hi
    Sounds like everybody will be Wy. Come may 1. Not a whole lot of talk on us all working together…I get it..
    The BLM looks plausible for hoB.

  12. Good postings by all to research. I believe his poem is a constrained lipogram. I am guessing that he made a specific set of self imposed guidelines in which he needed to follow in the making of the poem. Like Dal, I do think the poem has a straight forward solution BUT I have a hard time believing that the poem does not contain numerous poetic secrets that will come to light when solved. No idea what they could be but these thoughts are forefront in my mind:
    1. Most notable there is no letter X.

    2. All lines are 8 syllables except line 7 which is seven syllables/seven words/21 letters.

    3. Line seven “Not far, but too far too walk” was designed to be noticed. I believe it is a reference to memories or a suggestion that we must research the past in order to find “IT” and the home of Brown.

    4 .Used words with more than one meaning. For example “where”: in the third line I think he means treasure but in line five I think he means a location. (many others)

    5.Used words with similar meanings (look, seek, gaze)?

    6.I do believe his name was purposefully anagrammed into the last quatrain of the poem.
    (but maybe not).

    I have probably repeated most of what has been said before on this blog over the last three years. I just read Dals post from 2011 about Lummi Island. Sorry for any repeats.

    Does anybody know who the initials JF stand for on the illustration on page 99 of TTOTC?
    I am still looking at another Treasure Island coincidence.

    • The other thing I noticed about ” Not far, but too far to walk”
      it is the only line where the rhyme doesn’t work. “Halt” does not rhyme with “Walk”.
      Almost, but not really.

      • Nobody ever said Forrest was a great poet….haha….so I wouldn’t stress about halt not rhyming with walk anymore than what most rappers try to rhythm words with.

    • Safety Joe-
      hmm I come up with a completely different syllable count than you..
      Maybe it’s my dialect…but here is my count:


      As I have gone alone in there 8
      And with my treasures bold, 6
      I can keep my secret where, 7
      And hint of riches new and old. 8

      Begin it where warm waters halt 8
      And take it in the canyon down, 8
      Not far, but too far to walk. 7
      Put in below the home of Brown. 8

      From there it’s no place for the meek, 8
      The end is ever drawing nigh; 8
      There’ll be no paddle up your creek, 8
      Just heavy loads and water high. 8

      If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, 8
      Look quickly down, your quest to cease, 8
      But tarry scant with marvel gaze, 8
      Just take the chest and go in peace. 8

      So why is it that I must go 8
      And leave my trove for all to seek 8
      The answers I already know, 8
      I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak. 8-9

      So hear me all and listen good, 8
      Your effort will be worth the cold. 8
      If you are brave and in the wood 8
      I give you title to the gold. 8

      The reason I give line 20 either 8 or 9 syllables is because it depends on how I pronounce “tired”…
      I can say it either as one or to syllables and both sound okay to me..

      By the way. A couple of years ago I had a discussion with Forrest about “halt” not rhyming with “walk”. I was suggesting that one of those words might not be the right word and once the real word was put in place…and rhymed…that things became much clearer…
      Forrest listened to me for a little bit and then jumped in and told me very directly, “Don’t mess with my poem.”

      So I have not tried to change his poem in any way since then…


      • ” Don’t mess with my poem ” is a great quote!!
        Halt and walk it is !

        I agree with the 2 count on “tired” — so, how did FF say it at that most recent reading??

        • Most Texans say tired as one long mushy syllable. (before any Texans get on my case, I am one too) 🙂

        • DP and ken – Or “Taard”, like “tarred”, as in a paved road, which means it still could be somewhere those folks who make $6.50 an hour are going to find it. Then he could have easily done it “tired”, in his 4wd Jeep 🙂

      • Dal,
        Good catch on the syllable count for the first stanza. An excuse would only be foolish. At least now I have a good syllable count from you. Thanks.
        I will keep the anagrams to myself for now.
        Not sure where I got this from but I read or heard that if you look quickly down from the word “down” in line 6 you will see the word “walk” in line 7. I thought it was an interesting comment.

      • Us Texans pronounce “halt” and “walk” the same way, so they do rhyme. It is pronounced with a lazy drawn out “aul” sound. Rhymes to me! Lol

      • That’s right, because, as my son’s English teacher said so clearly :

        Don’t put the emphaaaaasis on
        the wrong syllaaaaaaable!

        • Woof_up: So, then, the word, “au-l”, would be pronounced, “gold-that-you-find-along-the-line-of-verticle-ascenscion”, then?

      • Just curious Dal, did you offer any specific words to replace either “halt” or “walk” ? If so, what were they?

        Perhaps knowing what he rejected, might show his intent more clearly.


        • JDH-
          I had been playing with word substitutions for awhile so I probably had them in my head but I doubt that I actually used them on Forrest. Forrest jumped on my idea and killed it pretty quickly. I don’t think there was time to actually toss any word substitutions at him.

      • Dal – I messed with Forrest’s poem once, which was a very, very bad idea. But, it was not my fault! I thought I had remembered his poem correctly, from seeing it on the blogs, but then I read TTOTC, and realized I had remembered it wrong. Graciously, he forgave me 🙂

        • This is a very good point. The poem that is in the book TTOTC is the one that must be used (at least I think).
          Even the poem on the Old Santa Fe website has the last “s” missing on the word “answers” in line 19.
          In an email from f, I was told “it is a type sir, and it has been noticed.”
          The problem is I wasn’t specific enough to ask which item contained the typo…the book or the webpage?
          I chuckle because the book has more typos then the webpage.

          Question: If the poem should not be messed with then why would the typo not be corrected?

          I will just keep picking it apart till I figure it out.

          • “It is a typo sir, and it has been noticed.”

            I really have to spell check before I post.

          • Safety-
            You are not the only person to point that typo out to Forrest. In fact there is a note to someone about that topic in one of his “Forrest Gets Mail” posts on this blog..

            His response at that time was:
            One of them is a typo. I’ll let you decide which one.

            That tells me clearly that it’s just not important to the solution. Now the folks that think the poem is an anagram and count letters or the folks who are into numerology and assign numbers to every letter believe that a missing “s” makes all the difference in the world…

            So here’s my point-
            In my opinion Forrest was simply saying that counting letters and assigning numbers to letters is not going to be part of the solution. In fact he has said…just follow the directions in the poem…so…the letter “s” is just not important to the solution.

            Don’t overwork it…

          • Ah, ….but can you take anything at face value, when its a poker player like FF saying it? This is the same guy that cites the chest as being at least 300 miles west of Toledo and 66,000 ‘links’ north of Santa Fe and under 10,200′ elevation …. He speaks in embellished /85% truths 🙂 — so if he says ‘don’t over think’ that’s my cue -like you, perhaps, with grayling creek- to do just that 😀

          • Dal and Map-
            Thanks for the info. I thought I also read it before on your blog but there is so much to go through. People have been busy.

            I was just thinking the s would change the meaning of the sentence somehow.
            I gave up on the anagrams because I realized I could make anyplace fit after enough time and effort.
            Counting letters might just be the oldest trick in the book so I might stick with it just for a laugh.
            I am not sure if I’ll see anybody crack this poem but I can’t wait to see how SIMPLE it really is.
            Back to basics.

          • But Map-
            Which of those hints do you have an issue with..?
            Do you think it’s less than 300 miles from Toledo?
            Do you think it’s closer than 66,000 links to Santa Fe?
            Do you think its higher than 10,200ft?

            Why do you think he is trying to lead you astray?
            These all seem like very reasonable hints to me…
            Okay..the Toledo thingy is a little touch and go…but the others are certainly good solid hints..

      • No idea. I would like to know though. I just finished reading Treasure Island last week and every time I turn a page in TTOTC I see something that jumps out. Billy Bones had illustrations in his account book. Forrest has illustrations in his memoirs.
        -The darkened JF on page 99 made me think of the initials JF (J.Flint) on the map in Treasure Island.
        -The tails on the rockets made me think of two X’s. In Treasure Island the arms and the silver were not found.
        -The arms in the lower right corner of the illustration on page 99 drew my curiosity.
        – And…?
        I will feel guilty if this illustration means more to Mr. Fenn than I just made it out to be.
        Just figured I would describe my reason for wanting to know and how my mind keeps coming up with these ideas. Crazy isn’t it? Now I’m done with the Treasure Island angle (for now).
        Back to working on just the poem.

      • I thought so at one time, but I think that is a picture that he said he “found” and he didn’t know who the artist was. I was trying to read a lot into that drawing before I heard that it wasn’t one of Alan Polt’s. Maybe Stephanie knows where that was mentioned.

      • Mapsmith – When I think of pirates, I also think of other outlaws, who buried their treasure, and the blazes they used. Jesse James, and his brother, Frank James, worked together in their robberies (on land, vs. on the high seas). I found a few cans of locally produced beer, at THE restaurant, which those two boys would have loved. One has a target with a P in the center, and the other has crossed guns in the center. The logo, surrounding the central images on each, says, “OUTLAW”. JF, then, could be Jesse-Frank. What do you think?

        • Mapsmith – And that works with my 4-5 Nine crapshoot term comment earlier, since the photo in TTOTC is on page 99, and Jesse James was shot with a .45 caliber pistol (hence the name, 4-5 Nine). I think I’ll have one of those cans of beer to celebrate tonight,…instead of the Bruno’s Merlot,…
          well, I guess I should say, “In Memoriam”, from now on,…of Bruno,…and of Jesse and Frank James. To Outlaws! Cheers!

          • Mapsmith – Paper covers Rock, so I win, right? Or is it Rock smashes Scissors, so I win? Or is it Scissors cuts Paper, so I win? Well, I just win! And I think I will need Robert Langdon to decipher the Natty Boh bottlecaps, if I find those on the trail, on the way to find TC. I hope you recycle those bottles,…if I bring those OUTLAW cans with me, I will not be adding them to the aluminum empties trash heap JC.L mentioned. That would not bode well for the fishies making it to 1000 years from now.

    • Re: 1. Most notable there is no letter X.

      X is among the letters not used that much in the english
      language, so it’s not that surprising that there is no X in the short poem. That’s the statistic view.

      The “goofy view”, of course, is that he reserved the letter
      X for the good old “X marks the spot” on a map…

      • I agree make it simple and hard=X-marks the spot. Perhaps an old tunnel some where that once had traffic of auto’s or trains!

        • Terentius – Why did your comment give me a visual of the historically famous London train station; you know, that depot from which Harry Potter and friends head out to school every year? Why, I ask? Pray,…tell, good Terentius.

          • Good Terentius – And what would Robert Langdon say, about the coordinates of Harry Potter’s departure platform, at said historically famous train station? Or, what would the descendants of Queen Boudica,…OR, of Queen Victoria,…say about that? And don’t you think he would go deeper, or below, to find out what may be flowing there? My memory is so fleeting…well, I guess I will have to see if Dan Brown writes another book, with Robert Langdon in it, about that.

  13. does anyone know if Forrest is going to go die where he hid the chest? I remember reading an article that said Forrest wants you to find his chest AND his bones. Maybe the blaze is his bones….

    • and if he does, i dont think i will be interested anymore….seeing a dead body/prying the chest from his bones, is not worth a few million dollars IMO

    • Taco-
      No..that was an old plan…when the doctors gave him little chance of surviving cancer..
      His plan was to end his life there…on his terms..instead of cancer’s…

    • To quote Tony D’s piece available on daily beast:
      “But Fenn isn’t done. When the time comes he hopes to shove one more element in with the bounty: his own dead body. “When people find the treasure, they’ll find my bones,” he explains, with the sound of his native Texas in every syllable. “But my bio will be inside so at least they’ll know who I was.”

      That was dated almost 2 yrs ago and looks like the kinda piece that might warrant some fact checking…. But there you go.

      • map-
        And here we have some of the inaccuracy and/or outright lying by TD to make his story more “interesting” and “sexy”…as if the truth was not interesting enough…

    • Taco * Mr. Fenn said that if he were to get another disease, and with his last gasp of air, he would jump on top of the chest, and he would dare us to come find him. He does not say anything about finding his bones.

  14. Ernest Vincent Wright’s novel Gadsby (not The Great Gadsby) is a 50 thousand word novel and it does not use a ‘E’ or ‘e’ in the entire novel.

      • ken – I found that reference, too. How could anyone do anything that doesn’t involve an E ??? How could he! 🙁

    • Rially? I am going to try writing a sintince without the fifth littir of thi alphabith, and nothing can stop me, oops

      • 3 e’s you did not change…very easy to not notice or make mistakes even when done intentionally…

        • Alrighty then, I was awarding the grand price of 3 gummi bears to specialklr, but now I see that he failed miserably, and instead you, ken, get the 3 gummi bears, and as runner up, specialklr gets 2 gummi bears.

          I promise, I will use the “Search and replace”
          function next time. Also, I will adhere to Hemingways advice, which was “Write drunk, edit sober!”

          • Woof_up: You said, “Alrighty then”, which made me think of Jim Carey and some of his “SNL” skits. I’ll have to go look for those scripts now. That saying was from “Ace Ventura: Pet Detective”, but you made me think Jim C. playing God, when Morgan Freeman takes a Divine Vacation, in “Bruce Almighty”. That made me think of Forrest answering ALL those emails that earnest searchers send,…some might actually be like prayers, I think. For Bruce, it didn’t look manageable. I am impressed that Forrest does such an amazing amount of reading and writing, to create this great treasure hunting adventure, for all of us. If you’re reading this,…my thanks to you, Forrest. 🙂

          • Sure, if you tilt your head 90 degrees to the left and look at WWWH, it looks exactly like this(VVVVVVH).Hope that helps w/out giving away too much ! HA

      • Woof _up: HeeeeeeeeHeeeeeeeeHeeeeeee! lol. And I DO know, that V…and E…and…e….all represent the fifth letter of the alphabet 🙂

  15. A little something for those that think “The end is ever drawing nigh” might be a clue. More specifically the “nigh” part meaning left or whatever.

    How many times have Forrest referenced that line in any previous interviews?
    As far as my count that would be zero.
    I do remember reading from Stephanie that Forrest referenced: “Just heavy loads and water high” when he said something along the lines of throwing his truck over “water high.” So there’s a good chance, one that so many believe anyway, that “heavy loads and water high” IS ONE OF THE NINE CLUES.

    So we know that line sticks and doesn’t get changed. Now since Forrest is using a rhyme scheme throughout his poem he will need to come up with a word that rhythms with “high.”

    Through his research he came across nigh and thus the phrase “the end is ever drawing nigh” was created off of heavy loads and water high. This is all hypothetical but a very logical reasoning for the creation of the phrase. Me personally, I wouldn’t put too much stock into thinking “nigh” as a clue, but I have always been interested in “drawing”

    • Could through your chase you come across cave “drawings”?
      For those that think the treasure is in NM this is a very likely possibility. BNM?

      • djj-13230m: I found some interesting cave drawings,..and white albino alligators…in and near somewhere King Arthur, from that Monty Python movie, would never go. Because its probable inhabitants might mock him,…or there might be a white, meek bunny guarding the entrance,…which its probable inhabitants might have been able to catch,…but the others, who they (the inhabitants) most probably cannibalized, clearly, could not. And that is why we still have white, meek bunnies here today. And alligators, too. The End. 🙂

    • Just want to correct what was said. Forrest sent to Dal an email he got and his response that said
      What is wrong with me just riding my bike out there and throwing it in the “water high” when I am through with it?
      He never said anything about a truck…it was a bike.

      • Steph :
        so he didnt say “(check the rental records of my) rental car or truck”?

        he has however mentioned a truck when describing a potential /example unemployed Texan treasure finder. Right?

        • No he did say that about a rental vehicle too, but he didn’t throw the truck in the water. He threw a bike.
          He did say that it might be a Texas guy who drives a red pickup truck and had a bunch of kids. I think Dal knows how many…I’d be curious how many kids that guy had originally.

          • If I not mistaken ,he has said 10,11 or 12 kids. That is a lot of children. Are people still having that many kids? Kids are really expensive!

          • I have a couple of red trucks, matter fact I have a small fleet of them. Im not from Texas and only two kids so I am half way there.

    • Many times while researching I think that line means “This Chase is never going to end!”

    • I think Mr. Fenn is referring to your quest is nearing the end. That is an old world term for “the end” and ” nigh” is near. I think the whole paragraph means: you got to use initiative, you are near the end, even though you face a daunting chore, plunge in to fast, high water. I think you have to cross a creek in this stanza. That is why you are cold when in the wood looking for the treasure.

      • I agree with your interpretation of nigh as near.
        I interpret ever as meaning “always”. So my thought on this line is ” the end is always drawing near” or “never ending.”
        After reading others interpretation of “drawing” I will be looking into more ideas.
        Many thoughts as you can tell but still no specific location. Stumped at this time.
        Not one for email. Will follow on blog.

        • If you remember from my previous comments. I am working with what I feel are action clues and descriptive clues. This line I feel is descriptive.
          Hope I’m not throwing out to much info.
          Don’t mean to be confusing.

          • I often wonder if the ‘end is drawing ever nigh’ (first pre-semi-colon half of sentence 4 , in the poem) is just a mere existential comment on mortality, rather than a navigational clue. A “We’ve got one life to live, so get out there and live already” style of kick in the pants. Non-sequitor, sure, but it WOULD be in FF’s style, right?
            “you’ll be travelling in a place where your life could be in danger “no place for meek”, so be brave enough to get off your recliner already: death is stalking you no matter what you do, so go: live life!”
            Before any naysayers shoot me down: please keep in mind the frame of mind of a cancer patient given a sudden death sentence. I had a close relative that was one of those people, and she got unusually philosophical and about love, life and happiness and especially ‘what’s truly important’ before the end.
            I think leaving that unique POV out of your figuring’s in this poem would be a large mistake.

          • Fenn –hmmm study the man..see how his stories change.. I think he hid some evidence from the feds in that bronze case & then forgot where he hid it, so he makes you-me go look for it. He knows approx. where he hid it, but not don’t think the feds are now tracking everyone:) Find the box, fed taps you on shoulder & says thanks..:)

        • Safety Joe – Your being “Stumped”, made me think of that picture in TTOTC, where Forrest is standing among all those tree stumps, on a hill, looking at the crescent moon, with the sparrow/nest in it. In that case, I see why you would interpret the “drawing nigh” as “near”.

          • Safety Joe – Oops! I was still thinking about the Trojan War,…and the plane trees, with the sparrows’ nests in them,…and the dogwood trees (aka. shrubberies), that the Trojan Warriors cut down to make the Trojan Horse (not the Giant Bunny). So, the sparrow/nest reference was a slip. I know someone has said, that they thought the bird in the nest, in the crescent moon, in that picture in TTOTC, is a turtle dove. I think it is a reference to Peggy, being at home with the girls, or being pregnant with one of them, while Forrest was building the Dude Motel with Skippy and Donnie.

          • Good call. That is the picture I had in mind when I typed “stumped.” Not sure what the bird in nest means. I am leaning more towards Good Fortune or a Lovers Nest.
            It could be a reference at how to people might look at the moon to think of each other when they are apart or the woodman contemplating a family far away(as I believe you are suggesting).

      • Reread your post after my last comment…
        Cross a creek…interesting last two sentences. I think I will reread some notes.

    • djjmciv – I have always been interested in the “drawing”, too. And, as I said before, e-is-for-ever, drawing nigh. And e-is-for-everyone, in movie ratings, anyway. I tend to watch Arrrr-rated movies, generally. But all the “Pirates of the Caribean” movies were rated PG, I think. I love the line Captain Jack Sparrow said to another E-person,…he said, “Pirate!”

    • djjmciv – If you only had One Horse, and two riders, because you both were very, very poor,…and the horse was very, very old,…then I might put stock in it. By that, I mean,…putting “stock into thinking ‘nigh’ is a clue”, as you said it.

  16. I just finished Dan Brown’s new book “Inferno”. In it, they chase all through the wonders of Europe and end at an underground cistern in Istanbul – specifically at an upside down head of Methuselah. If you had ever seen it in real life, it is the perfect photo/memory/cool/hollywood movie spot for the climax of his thriller.
    My point is, as Dal mentions, many people start at the “home of Brown” and work from there. I think that’s ok. We have no chance of starting at the right place without a breakthrough key or code, so why not pick a very special place of unique characteristics and work from there? Say it’s a special “blaze” or special “Brown” — that’s ok.
    I’m no expert on Europe, but that ancient underground cistern with hundreds of columns holding it up was bound to work itself into some story.
    So pick Forest’s wonder spot if you can, and work the poem both directions from there.

    • wabisabi – The Hagia Siofia is located 500ft southwest of that Istanbul cistern. And, “that’s all I am going to say about that”, from “Forrest Gump”, said by Tom Hanks, who I am SURE will play Robert Langdon, when they get around to it, and finally make that “Inferno” movie! My Cerca Trova guide made me look at that location, when I read “Inferno” last summer. I can’t remember the latin for, “As above, so below”, but I am sure that figures into it, especially time-wise.

    • wabisabi – OK, I won’t say anything more about that,…except,… that the doors of the Hagia Sofia are Brown Bronze, and one of those Medusa heads in the cistern is upside-down, while the other is oriented sideways. And the Byzantine period might be the one I was looking for, when I was searching for bronze caskets like TC. And, I found that Constantine IX was married to Empress Zoe, when I discovered a travel log, which showed the interior and artwork, of the Hagia Sofia. Doesn’t Forrest have a daughter that he named, Zoe? Hmmm…

  17. This morning I was moving some brick and mortar supplies to a job and while doing so I was thinking about how freaking cold that poor little Chest must be right now!! If some lucky searcher did find the Bronze Box in these conditions they had better have dry warm hands. That box would be like carrying a block of ice… maybe some ice tongs would be handy…

    • If we’re both talking about a pond with no sun, then my solve#3 means we’re heading to the same spot. It’s just a couple hours from solve#1&2, so I’ll see you there in spring 🙂

      Hey, do you ever read Joseph Campbell? The guy wrote about the ‘Hero’s Journey”? The plot line that Star Wars follows religiously?

      He wrote
      ‘The cave you fear to enter (like the one on Dagobah: a ‘forested fen’ if ever I saw one) holds the treasure that you seek”

      • Some how I doubt we will be in the same spot Mapsmith… You are a clever one for sure! Thing 1 and Thing 2 you say?! I do not like green eggs today… I’ve been reading Treasure Island lately. That map has me all amped up…

        • Ken: there are many places that we might cross paths. Never know, (unless you’re on Team NM or CO: then we’ll be quite far apart 🙂 ). Just don’t go all Hobbs on me if we do.

          based on your reading material and hints I think we both agree the key is finding X on the ‘map’; see you near the rainbow with Donna 😉

          • Map, When this is all over(some searcher gets lucky) and the Reunion happens; I’ll be the one w/ the patch over one eye and a trail of string stretched out behind me…and you won’t ever say that I didn’t follow my bliss.. Did I say that my X has been located? Well, never you mind…

          • I am on team Wyoming! but am looking to team Montana to draft me for my third solve. Dal – you going to in Mt in August.

        • ken – Aarrgghh! I would not eat them on a frigate, I would not eat them with a parrot…or an i-Guana, ‘kay? Or with Master Poe and that blasted Raven…Avast Ye!

    • Yes indeed Mr. Ken. I was thinking the same thing this afternoon while eating my sardine sandwich and juicy red apple. The snow cant melt soon enough. So where is Al Gore and all of his “Globe Warming” nonsense?

      • Pam, it is not our globe that is warming, it is our global oceans and atmosphere. Best do some homework before criticizing. Or are you just regurgitating what the RNC wants said. 🙂

        • A week ago, here in the northeast, we had a significant blizzard w/ high winds and temps well below zero. Yesterday we had temps in the 40’s, high wind, and a terrific thunder storm ! One thing about New England, if you do not like the weather, just wait 10 minutes and it will change! Do not mock the global warming issue…I do believe that many things are amiss…The ferocity of recent storms and the quick changes are a sign of things to come…. back to the Chase…What’s the weather outlook in the Rockies?

          • I think so many people consintrate on the global warming being a political issue and who’s right and who’s wrong when the real issue to me is….shouldn’t we care about it regardless and try to make improvements to the way we live and not put stuff into the air if we can avoid it? Wouldn’t that just make everyone happy?

            I think the weather in the Rockies is white, and white and more white.

          • Wasn’t there a claim in the last week or so, that a searcher was on their way to get the chest? I think the person was going to report back by today. Maybe he should have left the address so a search and rescue would know where to start looking…

          • Yeah, Those people are getting to be a broken record. Pretty standard though for a hunt, I guess , but tedious. Miles Glorioso.
            ” I know everything. I’ve got the ‘real’ answer. I’m going right now. I’ll tell all -either way- when I return , but I’m certain I’m returning with the treasure. And no – despite my astounding cleverness, I can’t possibly give any sort of veiled clue or even tell you which state I’m going to”. 😀

            Followed by silence.


            So, back to the poem: heres a thought: if it is in water, and if cold keeps diving, that poor chest would be crushed by ice expansion! Agree or disagree ?

          • Hi Ken…. I’m Hiimspidey….After a jaunt in December and a 3-week break for personal reasons, I’ve been out twice since the new year. Just got back. Can’t seem to leave my current solve area but at last, with little success. I just got this feeling that I’m just missing a clue or two from success…but hey, doesn’t everybody? Had to Laugh… at your comment about search and rescue…..last week I saw a helicopter circling around me during my search and my friend said, “Hey look , our wives’ sent search and rescue to find us!”

            Just in case your wondering… I chose my gravatar after someone on another TTOTC blog ridiculed my observation and told me “no spidey sense is going to find this treasure. Me, being of the notion that intuition will play a big part of finding the treasure, and a kind of asmart-ass, myself became Hiimspidey. Haven’t been active on this blog but once I think, but it seems more cordial and informative than the others….due to the volume of posts and of course its moderator, Dal. IMHO

          • Hi Deb…Thanks… needed to deal with family matters over the holidays which is the main reason I went dormant….. Found out that that NM searcher I was concerned about was just blowing smoke…..Whew!

          • Hey Spidey, don’t let the ridicule get to ya. There are bound to be conflicts here and there. I always liked Batman myself…Map- If the Chest was in water there are a myriad of issues that could affect its stability of placement. Forrest has said that he thought of everything though… I looked in the water on one of my searches…I remember looking up(that spidey sense) and seeing three people watching.They asked if I found anything. Man that water was coooold… Not in the water. IMO

          • Ken…I’m not the searcher you were wondering about as I have not been on this blog….just thought it was a good time to jump in and mingle.

          • Mapsmith – Miles Gloriosus…funny plot…reminded me of someone. It is good to know people were funny in the second century BC. I guess plays were the thing then, whereas now it seems to be movies, adapted from books, mostly. I also enjoyed reading about the Temple of Diana in Turkey. And about the archaeological museum in Istanbul, when I researched the Hagia Sophia and the bronze TC. Did you know that Sophia is the Goddess of Wisdom? I found a weird reference to that, which both Albertus Magnus, and the Cathars, would have appreciated.

          • Mapsmith – More on Istanbul…”where warm waters halt”, could be, Pamukkale Hot Springs (Hierapolis), which is sort of like that Brown rock formation, near the Gardiner entrance, of Yellowstone (hint: think about the definitions of the word, “halt”). And “waters high”, could be the cistern. It holds a whole heck of a lot of water, but is probably not so deep. There was a major earthquake I read about, though, so that could be “heavy loads and waters high”, if the cistern broke, and flooded the city. That whole area is very volcanically active, apparently. Also, I guess the cistern is below the original basilica and public square, so probably not “waters high”, as in elevation. So, if Forrest hadn’t said the TC is in the Rocky Mountains, Istanbul would be my first choice to search. Hey, Map, what is the latitude of Istanbul? And the longitude would be East (of the International Date Line), so it would be a positive number, right?

          • Map – I meant the Prime Meridian or Greenwich Meridian (not the IDL). I think the French Kings ^ had something to do with those kind of longitudinal lines, too (was that before or after the “English Pig Dogs”?). I guess I will have to actually watch that movie with Jeremy Irons, called “Longitude”, to find out.

          • Mapsmith – Well, the Belgrade Forest could be “in the wood”, AND “waters high”, along with the two aqueducts, built by Justinian, that carried all that water from that forest down to the cistern. And wiki called the columns in the cistern, a “forest”, because there are so many. Are you SURE the TC is in the Rocky Mountains??? And I found the latitude/longitude of Istanbul, when I researched the details of the 557 AD earthquake, which had it’s epicenter there. Lots of non-believers converted to Christianity after that one!

  18. There has always been a lot of discussion about how each clue should be solved. Here’s a basic list of my current ideas. IMHO

    Clue 1 Three play on words + one big puzzle/riddle = one geographic area

    Clue 2 Simple if you’ve found clue 1

    Clue 3 Two play on words leads to one geologic/geographic area

    Clue 4 Old saying leads to Proper name on an extremely obscure map of clue 3

    Clue 5 Same as clue 4

    Clue 6 Old saying + play on words = gives a direction

    Clue 7 Two play on words = one geographic object and one task

    Clue 8 Two play on words = one biblical, gives a direction, one geologic

    Clue 9 Two play on words = one direction and then one task

    • Kyote; I really like this rundown of the poem and your take on it. Gives nothing away and yet leaves a clear framework of how you’re looking at things. Plus, you know, it’s all ON TOPIC n stuff. 😉

      My #1 solution take, all IMHO:

      > the entire poem is the 9 clues. 9 clues & 9 sentences can’t be coincidence to my mind. further, the FF quote Dal recently posted “Don’t mess with my poem!” I think backs this up.
      > The x is missing from the text on purpose. Find/Solve for X.
      > The poem doesn’t reuse any one rhyme word, but does reuse “___eek” and “___old” rhyme sounds, once each. Deliberately.
      > There IS an acrostic code in there, and it spells out the initials of not just a very specific region but a very specific place inside that region. (e.g. Like if someone wrote SOMA.SF.CA you’d be led to about a 10×20 block neighborhood in San Francisco) It’s also one of those “either a heck of a coincidence or put there on purpose” because of how nicely it fits the clues.
      > the poem is all you need… ALL you need. All of the other things about elevation, 10,000 years, sandwiches and flashlights, 500′, bikes, rental trucks, graveyards, outhouses, 66,000 links, etc…. are not going to do anything to get you closer to the chest and therefore shouldn’t be depended/relied upon. — my logic: The poem alone was made to get you to the chest, even if he had died the day after he’d written it. Nothing he’s said since should contradict your solution, but if it does, don’t pay it any mind.

      clue by clue

      1: On the surface, this tells us the secret is safe, sure. But also Gives the area via a subtle and quite old reference. Also tells us the site of the (relatively new) chest may have been previously considered a place to find riches.

      2: Maybe I’ve been watching too much “Klondike gold” programming on Discovery channel, but I think it’s interesting that this describes the path that Au takes in its journey from glacial mountainside, through miles of rivers, to panner’s pocket. All without ‘walking’. Nuggets ain’t got legs, do they?

      3. Ah…the all important shortest sentence in the whole thing: the home of Brown. I actually think this is the most straightforward of the bunch, and furthermore think that FF has already given us the answer. It’s plain and exposed and isn’t coded or deep at all. The book helps. It also helps to keep in mind his quote about breaking grammar rules.

      4. There sure a lot of homonyms and puns possible in this sentence! I think ultimately though, this isn’t a location clue at all: the first half is an admonishment to get off your duff and get outside– the great outdoors requires you not be meek, you do indeed have to risk your life to walk among widowmakers, bear, flashfloods, wolves, blizzards, charging bison, rockslides, bats with rabies, and all that. End is drawing nigh = just a little existential commentary: death is stalking you no matter what, so, go LIVE life. The second half though sure sounds like a waterfall = you cant paddle up one, it’s all sorts of heavy, and aside from a geyser or mountaintop glacier, when else does water get so high?

      5. To me, this is not talking about a fire, nor a horse’s coat, nor a geographical feature, but about what you see when you look down at your own two feet (look quickly down: like Owl in that poem about the 2 lumps he saw at the end of his bed!). A trail, like the trail you ‘blaze’ yourself. (Don’t use breadcrumbs, hansel!)
      I think Marvel Gaze IS a location clue; the chest is very near some vista / viewpoint / coin-op telescope where people are known to frequent, and thus ‘tarry scant / take the chest and go’!

      6. Why is it EYE must go? or Why is it ‘i’ must go? Hmmm. Homonyms like this and leaf,awl,sew,mussed (all of which are in this sentence) are probably messing me up, but I think it’s VERY interesting that he waited until line 18 to ask the Question (that properly, should have been asked at the beginning).

      7. this line includes the word answer: so I think it is the answer to the question in clue 6. Neither is a location clue, IMO, but will help you, in some ways. Especially if you agree on ye olde subtle reference in clue 1.

      8. Listen, hear – maybe there’s an audio clue when you are there. Maybe. Sew Here Me Awl? nahh…
      Cold? Well, that’s just a word that rhymes with Gold and who wouldn’t want to end a treasure poem on the word “Gold”?!. He’d already used bold and old, (and tolled or wold are unlikely candidates. 😉 ) I think this is merely another ‘kick in the pants’ line to get you out the door: making it clear you won’t be indoors when you find the chest.

      9. Brave could mean American Indian. There are certain geographic features named that way. In the wood could be literal or figurative or even archaic poetic. Could be talking about the final clue of location too: like the chest is in a log (he has been quoted as saying “get outdoors, kick a log over”). Last line is just like its face value: you solve the poem map, it’s all yours, a gift to you.

      but that’s just one of the crazy ideas in this here noggin…. 😀

      • Mapsmith – I loved what you wrote about each of the nine clues, especially number 9. “Brave could mean American Indian”. I found a great book, called, “Cheyenne Memories”, written by John Stands in Timber and Margot Liberty. Until he passed away in 1967, he was the memory keeper for generations of the Cheyenne indians. Weirdly, the priests at the school he attended, called him, “Forrest”! So, I extrapolated that fact, to mess with Forrest’s (Fenn’s) poem as follows:

        If you are brave, and John Stands in Timber
        (An American Indian, Standing bravely, In the Wood)
        I give you title to the gold

        Never, *ever* mess with Forrest Fenn’s poem, like I did, though 🙂

        • E: Specifically there’s a geological feature south of Brown dens, that Dal posted (er… gave away-ha! 😉 ) in the last couple months, which I believe could tie in to that line, that stanza and that word. It’s also relatively down from the canyon… Be brave. Be prepared.

  19. I think “Take the chest and go in peace” is a clue also, but I won’t give any more detail than that!

    • RC and Donna – Or, as Donna most probably knows, since she uses the Chines Yuan or Japanese Yen currency symbol, to surround her “Peace” salutation, on Forrest’s blog,…the “go in peace” part of that line, could be a directive to take TC via a more secluded trail or road; that suggested pathway might look like the upside-down Y, inside the circle, of a peace symbol.

  20. I strongly think that Mr. Fenn hid the treasure in a place he has not mentioned since he started us in the quest. Anybody agree, or disagree?

    • RC: both. I think he hasn’t mentioned the place directly/literally at all. Yet, I think its possible every third thing he says includes a little something that will link to the 9 clues and the poem — we’ll be able to go back after the chase is all done, and say ‘aww man, that meant THIS’!

      • I agree that forrest has been very generous … Many many hints have been given to us. He has not mentioned the place…(IMO)

    • RC, I agree and disagree. I don’t think he ever named the location, but he has given many hints. They would only be obvious to those who think they know where it is.

    • I think he placed it in an area that helps him relive his memories. Does that mean he only remembers in those places he was at when those memories formed? I think not.

  21. He said the place had to be a place, no one knew. “Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.” Lots of people are running off to Hebgen lake. I would be really surprised if it was near there. He said he Hinted in the Book. I guess I Agree.

    • I’ll bite…Who? I super hope that Mr. Forrest’s next post Hints at a number associated with the “end”, you know, the ever drawing nigh end. What CHA Think? I hope it’s three digit number, Good things always come in threes, stop- reverse that.

      • Grandma and Grandpa’s saying…The end is ever drawing Nigh….I heard this, and in my Dutch-English up bring….It means……the End is coming soon. Or the End is coming, or coming soon….I heard this when someone was dying, or when we were arriving to our destination soon.
        Nigh, means soon or in a night.

        • You silly goose, did you really hear that near the end of a trip? I’ll try it with my boys. Yes- one end of a trail, or road. LOL

          • Mapsmith – OK,…I know that in a right triangle, a-squared-plus-b-squared-equals-c-squared (if you know the length of the sides, ie. the distance from me to the rainbow, and the distance from the ground, there, up to the red color). And I know the rainbow angle, from where I’m standing, to the red color, is 42 degrees. So, the other complimentary angle is 48 degrees. And the 90 degree right angle, from where I’m standing, goes from me, along the ground, to the rainbow, then goes straight up.

            And then I need to estimate the arc, and where the rainbow ends,…would that be the left or the right terminus, Map, from my POV? The height to the red color would be the radius of that rainbow semi-circle, right? So, Two-Pi-times-radius (divided by four) = the quarter-length of the rainbow arc, on the right,…right? I am going with the left end as alpha, and the right end as omega, for now.

            I sure hope it’s raining (without lightning), when I go on the hunt, and that the clouds clear suddenly, leaving a shining sun, above and behind me, as I stand at my favorite spot (or, if I were Mark, who won the Apache Tear, I could use my flashlight to make my very own rainbow!) Then, I am sure, I would find that pot of gold,…that you…and Forrest…mentioned,…if my calculations are correct, anyway 🙂

      • Lowi – When you said, “I’ll bite…Who”, I thought of how your name, “Lowi”, could be a combination of the two names, “Loki” and “Owl”…especially when you said, “Who?” (beware, all you little Brown creatures!). And when I think of threes, I think of the Golden Triangle, and all things associated with Pythagorus, and associated Godesses. And I thought of “Da Vinci’s Demons” again, because he climbed a ladder, to a vault, to have a bird’s eye view of 27 pages of something, which he was trying to decipher (because, 3x3x3=27). And then I thought of a choir,…singing up in the loft,…of a vault,…in a chapel,…and Dan Brown,…for some reason. Oh,…and the volume of a sphere equals the fraction, four-thirds-times-Pi (and,…that might be the area of an ellipis also, but I’m not sure on that one). I am just going to bring MY giant ball of string on the hunt. It’s made of all recycled materials, of course.

        • Lowi – Are you still battling Thor, by the way? I forgot to mention that Pi, which is roughly equivalent to the number, three-point-one-four-one-six, is an infinite series, just like e. That means both numbers, Pi and e, are forever approaching infinity (which looks like an 8, laying on its side, btw…Oh!…OMG!).

        • Lowi – Oops,…correction: the volume of a sphere equals four-thirds-times-Pi-times-radius-cubed, and the VOLUME of an ellipse = (4/3)πr1r2r3. I think I am almost ready to face Smaug 🙂

    • LouLouwho@
      I never read that the place where he put the TC was in a place where he his buddy only knew the area. All I ever heard of the spot is that it was personal/special to him. I will say that it would be weird to see a full skeleton at Old Faithful.

  22. Forrest never said anything about it being in water or not….What he has said is there is a sinew necklace in the chest…unless he waterproofed it somehow, he would not put sinew in the water, because he has told us sinew dissolves in water, that is why he wants to fight Indians on a rainy day…so their bow strings break! Therefore I believe it is not in the water…Furthermore, the enemy of all things antique is moisture…So I think the chest is someplace arid and dry…And how do you throw yourself over the chest to die if its underwater?…No, its in a dry location, perhaps near water, but in no danger of being submerged. If you are looking IN THE WATER, imho, you are wasting your time.

    • Michael can you email me at tyblossom at aol dot com?

      Also, where does he say that he put a sinew necklace in the chest?

    • I agree with your logic but I did a quick search of sinew necklace and I could not find anything that says he put it in the chest.

          • William – If it was Sinew, I could have used it to make another “Spear of Destiny”,…with my second, spare Clovis Point,…since my first one will probably be used to fight the FIRST Grizz I meet on the trail, on the way to get TC! I will bring some Sinew. Thanks.

  23. One other thing I want to mention, probably redundant for many on this blog, A wood can be defined as a grove of trees smaller than a forest, spaced far apart so as to provide more sun than shade. Also, “in the wood” could mean, “in the Forest”, or “in Forrest’s head”….

    • Yeah like Winnie the pooh was in the hundred acre wood, which is where the character Owl lives.

      • Stephanie – Piglet was “af-f-fraid” to enter the hundred acre wood, but he really wanted to help his friends. I hope he got over that. I looked up that size wood, and it is equivalent to approximately one fifth of a square mile. I did that to estimate where “Winnie the Grizz” might be, when I finally get up the courage to go get TC. 🙂

        • Hey take a break….E* If you want to go find the treasure, You will need to take a break from GOOGLE…Search……LOL *smile*

        • Since Winnie the Pooh is now into the chase too, I have to add my opinion on that as well: Yes, indeed, piglet is af-f-f-raid, but he might get lucky. Rabbit on the other hand is always worried and nervous about carrots or something, so he’s got less of a chance. Eeyore the donkey is usually too depressed to get anything done –
          I can just hear him say: “Someday I’ll go and find the treasure -which I doubt!” But he nonetheless often comes out ok, against all odds. Kanga, and little Roo, they are upbeat and happy, so they’ll go and find the treasure, like that. Christopher Robin is usually a good boy scout, so I give him good odds, too. Owl will stay in his tree-house and say “A treasure hunt, hmm, indeed how marvelous and fortuitous”.

          That should pretty much cover it.

    • Michael D. – Ergo,…are you saying,…when you said, “or ‘in Forrest’s head’…”, in reference to the meaning of, “in the wood”,…that Forrest’s head is made of wood?! I am just remembering all those geometry theorems…to prepare for Smaug! So,…therefore,…if I am brave, and “in Forrest’s Head”, I will find TC, right?

    • Michael D – I assumed that when Forrest wrote “well”,…he meant,…”well”. Oh,…wait,…he, said, “and listen good”,…not, and listen…well…oops! Well,…I guess I had that wrong…it’s happened before. Sorry, Forrest 🙂

  24. lets be logical for a moment…perhaps these native peoples had access to something vegetative to string beads…and perhaps they waxed it for protection, it would still deteriorate in water…so my stance is still it is not in water…

    • Just playing devils advocate. Does all of their jewelry use sinew? Is it possible he put it in the jar that’s sealed? Just thinking about him saying about not putting the money in there, because of the moisture seems to go against this line of thinking. I mean even if it wasn’t in water…he’s saying there is moisture and as you’ve pointed out…moisture, even as in rain would ruin something like that.

    • Michael D* The question whether,or not the treasure is buried underwater, I think , was answered when someone called Mr. Fenn on the phone telling him he had found the gold to which Mr. Fenn replied something like, did the hot water ruin the patina?

      • RC-
        If you believe that is an indicator from Forrest that the chest is in “hot water” then I believe you are sadly mistaken. You left out the key element to that searchers note to Forrest. He was phishing for clues and told Forrest he found it in a hot spring. Forrest then replied something like, “did the hot water ruin the patina?”. Forrest does this all the time. It is neither a confirmation nor a denial of where the chest is located. It was a clever response to some foolish searcher who thought they might be able to phish a clue out of Forrest.

        If you read the “Forrest gets mail” posts on this blog you will see many similar instances of replies from Forrest. I don’t believe there was any confirmation from Forrest that the chest has either been found or that it is hidden in hot water.

        • So, .20″ thick bronze plate can be crushed by freeze/thaw cycles, and bronze rusts. Huh! It’s really interesting all the new things I learn by participating in the Chase.

      • Stephanie and RC – Has anyone considered that Forrest may have used an ammo box to put TC in water? I don’t know the dimensions of all of those, but,… my former landlord built a river raft for the Colorado in the Grand Canyon, and he used those boxes to keep his belongings watertight (in case the raft flipped, which they are wont to do there). And maybe that ammo box would not have to be submerged completely…

        • I haven’t. Are you actually looking for it E? You seem like you want to solve it for someone else and not yourself. Maybe you should team up with map or some others and form a partnership. Just a thought.

          • Stephanie – Thank you for that helpful suggestion…it would be nice not to have to go “alone in there”! That made me think of Tom and Huck, in Mark Twain’s original story,..and the letter A,…for some reason. I just like to help others, by sharing the insights I have had, so they can maybe feel that same sense of discovery, that I have felt. That has been my treasure. Giving out my little hints, I hope, will help others; maybe to add them to the pieces they have found, to complete the overall find-the-treasure puzzle.

          • I guess I just hope that the person who gets it, figured it out themselves. I would guess Forrest hopes for that, but I don’t know if that’s what he thinks or not. I’m also guilty of wanting to help…and I keep trying to reiterate that to myself.

          • Pam – No, I do not like to fly solo. I like to fly in a V formation, with Forrest leading, in my F100D. Or in a Hornet, if he has one, too. I will always wear an oxygen mask. 🙂

          • Hey, Stephanie and Pam – What if Renelle finds it, because of one of the hints I gave? Wouldn’t that be great?! 🙂

          • Ummm no lol…No offense meant towards Renelle…but I think we’re all hoping we are the ones to find it and it wouldn’t be great if anything other than that happens lol….

          • I am with Stephanie! No, that would not be great. What would be great… if we all pray for Renelle to be well again.

          • I know you cant just stumble onto the chest but I hope who ever finds did the homework and earns it instead of cheating would be the easy way of saying it.

          • Sure– let’s go E. 😉
            25/74 split. We’ll try 2 of your solves and 2 of mine. Chat about shakespeare. Eat subpar camping rations. It’ll be great. Whoever’s solve it is gets the 74

            1% to FF

          • I think whoever finds it will have earned it . From what I have seen he has given us more than enough clues, in fact maybe too many.
            He never said it would be easy. 🙂

            E has given me lots to think about too. Its like Forrest says knowing a little should never be an excuse for not learning more. Thank you E*

        • I may be mistaken but didn’t Forrest say early last year the chest is exposed to the elements?

          So moisture would be a issue due to the fact it gets rained on.

        • Don’t forget temperature protection though: if its in still water (or the shallows of a river), even in a plastic bag or ammo box, ice formation will crush it over time, especially with multiple re-freezes !

  25. I don’t understand solves 1,2 and 3. Forrest said whoever finds the chest will go STRAIGHT to it, and that it won’t be found by a pic-knicker.
    I believe that i know where it is, and I believe that I know how the 2 searchers went right by it. I also know what the blaze is.
    Of course I was just as sure last year that it was The Landmark, on top of Obsidian Cliff, until I climbed it and decided that an 80 year old man couldn’t have possibly made that climb.

  26. Hi Emmett-
    I am also searching in that neighborhood. Do the initials D.S. have any significance to you regarding the blaze?

      • emmett – I am over 50 years old, since my birthday was last week, but I have one initial…and I am sure you know what THAT is! Last time I checked, I am not the “blaze”, though….or, am I???? 🙂

        • E* congrats on the 50 and I agree with Steph one time asked everyone to post a picture on there gravatar cause its a eye opener to your fellow searcher.

        • E: i guess u know it has been snowing down south! My friend and I ran out of whisky(no E) , went to the store to replenish, only to find it closed.
          No one anywhere near, so I made a few donuts in the parking lot.
          We laughed, and laughed thinking how everyone would blame those dam (sic) teenagers. I’m drawing SS, and still think I’m a blaze.
          Happy Birthday-

  27. I remember Forrest saying the out of work Texan had 6 kids… Forrest has increased that to 12 now. I also am NOT sure that it was a Texan the first time I heard it.
    I also have heard Forrest say the he never thought that he had to believe everything he said. AND he has said that it doesn’t matter what words you use as long as they understand what you mean.
    I think he just likes the laughs he gets when he mentions the guy with 1/2 dozen or more kids.

  28. i believe ff hid the treasure between shoshoni and casper in wyoming. this is where his brother skippy left him on their way home from YNP one year. he said his brother was like a god to him the chapter before that. i think its off in a field under a stone like the stone he found of the french soldiers grave. any thoughts? has anyone searched near here before?

    • I once thought this too, Matt. I think it was about the middle of last June I researched that part of Wyoming and found out that there didn’t appear to be a long, straight stretch of road between Casper and Shoshoni. I still think it means something but not the location of the treasure….IMO.

      • route 20 goes straight from shoshoni to casper. It changes names a couple of times I think, but stays as a highway the whole time. I dont think it is there anymore anyway, there doesnt seem to be a good wwwh around there.

  29. Himspidy, Lots of peeps here just to show how smart and witty they are. Anyone is game, Im outa here, bye.

    • Understood, Thanks for the heads up, Lou Lee …Not to be misinterpreted..I will keep my wise-cracking nature to myself and stick to trying solve the poem.

      • Hi Spidey, I got upset cause I ask a question and feel like I was being made fun of. So I am afraid to ask for any thoughts on here. So I will just comment about what I think and not care what others think anymore. However I do see some trying hard to show how smart they think they are. With complicated strange solutions. What I like about forrest is that he is a simple guy. And his poem is simple if you know where to start, which is where the warm waters stop. If you can find the right one. Best Wishes.

        • I agree with you. I sometimes try to remember things FF says in my own words and interpretations and often get snarked by people who have a better memory than me, but its ok, I don’t care…it makes me laugh!

  30. Who is with me in thinking THE most important stanza of the poem is the last?

    Think about it..
    So hear me all and listen good,
    Your effort will be worth the cold.
    If you are brave and in the wood
    I give you title to the gold.

    Forrest had said, countless times, just use the poem.

    Then it proceeds in saying:
    Your effort will be worth the COLD.
    If you are brave and in the WOOD.

    So we can conclude that once you are “in the wood” you would have braved the cold.

    So what we need to be asking ourselves is…when is “wood” always “cold”?

    (This assume that Forrest would know the poem wouldn’t make much sense if only written for the wintry weather when referring to being “cold.” So one might think that when he references “cold,” it is “cold” year around)

    • It’s all important. Without understanding every word in every line one will never get “it”. Hopefully, much good will come from this wonderful ride we know as TTOTC. I think so don’t you?

    • It think “the cold” refers to the cold shoulder we all have experienced many times over when we start to tell a non-believer( of TTOTC) about the poem or our adventures looking for it. My wife is so cold towards hearing anything about the Chase, that I have started keeping my beer under her pillow.
      IMO about the first part…JK about the second part 😉

    • djjmciv* I disagree with your theory. I think the most important stanza is the first stanza. Now, if you already know where “in there” means, then yes, I would agree with you.

    • dmj-
      I agree that it is very useful in helping us identify the area that the chest is located. I am not certain I see how it is any more valuable than other stanzas which tell us how to find the chest but I agree that this last stanza does two very useful things for me.
      First, it gives me some image of the area and second, it provides valuable insight about what has to be done to get to that area.

      • One thing that has not been mention about the “cold”, is it’s relationship to “warm”. If we have begun it where warm waters halt, then we would have proceeded to the “cold” waters. I know, that’s too simple. 🙂

        Being brave and in the wood would then be simply where you are when you have ended your chase.

        • Interesting to note there is a beach of southern calif called “Warm Waters” – why because it discharges hot water from an nuke plant that makes electricity..and when it hits the ocean..:)

          • Terence,
            Los Alamos had a nuke plant at one time (also home of the first atomic bomb). It is a key link to the “omega” symbol as well

          • greek numerals:
            Alpha = 1 (1000)
            Beta = 2 (2000)
            Gamma = 3 (3000)
            Delta = 4 (4000)
            Epsilon = 5 (5000)
            Digamma = 6 (6000)
            Zeta = 7 (7000)
            Eta = 8 (8000)
            Theta = 9 (9000)
            Iota = 10
            Kappa = 20
            Lambda = 30
            Mu = 40
            Nu = 50
            Xi = 60
            Omicron = 70
            Pi = 80
            Qoppa = 90
            Rho = 100
            Sigma = 200
            Tau = 300
            Upsilon = 400
            Phi = 500
            Chi = 600
            Psi = 700
            Omega = 800
            Sampi = 900

        • Being brave and in the wood, forest?, pile of logs, log-cabin, the only true meaning of that is known by the author..our meanings could be what ever we think it is!

        • Likewise there are many contrasts: from water to blazes, warm to cold, far but not far, ‘keep my secret’ vs ‘for all to seek’,
          Lots of high contrasts.

    • Cold – I believe is a qualifier. It will likely have a double meaning. The first one is the obvious which everyone realizes. The second qualifier is key to unlocking the poem. That is where is gets interesting. One must be able to think on another level and make those connection which when correctly solved will allow one to go right to the trove.

      • Wolf,
        I always thought by the time you are cold and in the wood, you already have the chest in hand. Do you think it is important to Discovering the treasure? I feel it is more of advice on what to do once you have it.

        • Pam, I think it is irrelevant what you do after you find it, what is important is unlocking the poem. Once unlocked (or linked as I prefer to call it) then the secondary or obvious meanings clarify where exactly to look.

          • Wolf,
            True, but it is important to me to understand every word and it’s meaning. I’m just annoying that way:).

    • djjmciv * I agree with you on this. I do not think you could only get cold in the winter time. The person who finds the treasure chest, in my opinion, would have gotten cold even in summer time. Let us say someone finds the chest in a hot spring, in Colorado. This hot spring has a yearly temperature of 98.6 degrees, and let’s say the day he, or she finds the treasure is also a 98.6 degrees in temperature. How would it relate to “worth the cold?”

      • I think the poem is more that just hints of where one might go, it the location if ever found..I think the poem verses also could be actual locations ” one has to think OUT OF THE surprised what turns up:)

        • One does not have to be in the snow or water , or outside to be in the cold. “As I have gone IN THERE alone – I think is a cave or a mine tunnel which can be very cold in the middle of summer!

          • I believe cold is the under part of a boulder or rock where it would be cold once you lift it up or look under it…just like a bronze would be cold.

          • anything is possible, in the winter I would agree or even fall, but not on a hot summer day. It what ever you feel is right!

          • The cave and tunnel believers should be very cautious…Entering either of those come w/some very serious risks…cave ins, gases etc…do some life saving research before hand and make sure someone knows where you are!

          • That’s very true, that’s why you should always have someone with you when venturing off into the wilderness..never go alone!

        • The clue I believe are for somewhere & within them words lies the place to start, but not everything is at it seems…I say go right when I actually mean left to get to the right, the long way around!

      • RC – – In your example assuming body temp and water temp is identical, you would FEEL cold when you came out of the water and hit air (temp change by conduction) or wind (temp change by convection), especially noticeable in cooler wind. Remember the story in the book about the bronze indian and the children who touch it? It FELT cold.

        • It seems everyone thinks this box is in the water, water is a key part of it, but water is found in more places than just a stream..Where warms waters halt – turn off a hot water faucet!

      • I see. You father loves you very much, and I see you love him. Your Father also loves you very much (316). I’m sure they are both very proud to call you “son”. I’ll be on my knees for just a little while before I can return – working and communing. I Thank You, Sir. I look forward to meeting you. I marvel at the blanket still on the loom.

    • I agree with the last stanza being very very important. Since the poem gives the impression, at first glance, that the chest is right there for the taking after you have looked quickly down from the blaze, in the last stanza Mr. Fenn seems to be saying, “Hey, I’m not finished yet”. You need to hear me now because what comes next is so important you will not find the chest without it. I think when we have located the blaze and look quickly (as in sharply or directly) down there is still some kind of barrior that prevents us from walking right to the chest. So, we need to cross the barrior to get to the wood. This barrior has the cold in it which, to me, is water. Water, like the bronze indian at Fenn’s gallery will always feel cold to us (even after heating up somewhat in the summer months) against our warm skin.

        • This phrase seem to throws me — “if your brave & in the wood” what if your not brave or in the wood he wont give you the title?

          • That in it self is a clue “brave & in the wood” forest or another kind of wood, such as a stack of cut trees, woodpile, etc!

          • I’m not sure about the necessity of actually being “brave” but I have a feeling that if you are not “in the wood” you won’t have to worry about getting the “title to the gold” because you probably have not found the chest. 🙂

          • Im on the edge of the wood, & not in it. Your right I have not found the chest, on the other hand who knows if anyone did find it?

          • I think that it is assumed by Mr. Fenn that if you have found the Blaze then you’ve been wise and if you are in the wood, you are brave. In Beowolf, his men fled the dragon and the wood and only one stood with him to fight. When he was dying in the wood after the dragon was slain, the men returned to the wood and were chastised for their cowardice by the one who had remained.

      • Again,I disagree with the last stanza being the most important stanza. I would rather be in the exact area, than being in the incorrect spot. My opinion.

        • Food for thought!

          The Missouri River rises in the Rocky Mountains of western Montana, and flows generally to the southeast !

        • Agree with RC. Sorta. Most poem based hunts I’ve known of do not put clues in order or even together by category. No reason to think any stanza rules ‘above’ any other. But the first, IMO, in this one, gives key info.

          • Perhaps one of the more important lines in the poem..”If you been wise & found the blaze” BLAZE is a major key if not the most important phrase of the entire poem!

  31. Just noticed “…and below 10,200 ft.” on Dal’s Cheat Sheet. Is that from Forrest, as it’s the first I’ve seen this mentioned?

    • Dave-
      Forrest made that statement in an interview with the editor of TrueWest Magazine last summer. It was printed in a column in that magazine. Forrest has confirmed that the treasure is between 5,000 and 10,200 feet a number of times since.

      • Dal: you should also add to your cheat sheet his October 22 ‘hint’:

        “It’s not on top of any mountain”

        • Its more than 8.25mi North of Santa Fe..gee what if it is 8.26mi N?
          The problem it DUE NORTH or TRUE NORTH!

          • Video from 10.22 event…. Dang, can’t recall if it was Toby’s ? If nothing else, I bet he knows — he admits to ‘reviewing video interviews more than reading the poem’. Good man.

            Aside: There’s also the hint, and I do believe it’s a good hint, that’s posted on “if you had its coordinates, you would be able to find the treasure”.

          • The wall map..notice the latitude lines ..there very important..find the river, stream,creek there crossing, of course you will have to pick the right one, but it just might be the place your looking for!

    • One has to remember Dal & Fenn are friends..perhaps now & then there is a small clue supposed to be leaked…don’t believe everything you read to be 100 true! there maybe some mis-truths thrown out there just to keep one off balance a bit! Keep the search going & going & sell more books:)

      • Terence-
        Forrest is friends with many people on this blog…Stephanie and Toby to name two..
        Forrest has not provided any clues through me that I am aware of..
        That is not to say he has not provided information that some might consider clues in things he has written on the blogs..
        For instance the scrapbooks…
        Some think so…others do not..

        • I think we all wish we had the time youve had with forrest one on one. Ill trade places with you in a heartbeat. He rarely speaks to me…but I do hope he would think Im a friend, as well as all the searchers.

        • Dal I am guilty of thinking that you are prvity to information from the rest of us so I must say I’m sorry.

  32. Something to think about this week…

    When is cold, cold year around?

    Cold can mean bleak or bare. Going off the definition that one could fell cold when they are felling alone. They feel like they are in a barren wasteland all alone.

    What comes to mind in a barren wasteland, a desert.

    So, is it possible that one could feel “cold” in a 120 degree desert?

    If there’s nothing around, just you and the chance I would say one can feel very cold indeed. And Forrest did say he would walk out into the desert and throw himself onto the chest. hmmmmmm

      • I hope it’s JUST me…if you’re asking me. At this point, no body’s asking me to tell them anything. I’d be more than happy to tell them ALL (as far as I know) …if/when they ask.

    • Cold also refers to a specific technique of bronze casting — an almost lost art form, really. There’s a statue of Jimi Hendrix in my city that the artist referred to as a “cold”.

      Also have to wonder if line 22 is just literal: telling us to anticipate getting sick.

      • Map, IMO the poem is to be taken in a literal sense… that being said, there is another way to interpret “cold”… jeez, I don’t want to get sick so I hope I am right !

      • Mapsmith,
        I agree with what you are referring to about the bronze. It makes me wonder if the chest is really an original solid bronze piece or perhaps a plated replica. It was said to weigh 22lbs empty.

        • btw, I already got sick on my last trip looking for that Little Bronze Baby. I came home empty handed, but full of promise, and a runny nose!

        • Found this at you can make some art work your self, smear it on a foam model.

          “”Overview – To make a metal cold-casting, metal powder is mixed into the resin until the mixture is thick and creamy. The mixture is then “slush-cast” (poured into a mold and rolled around) or brushed onto the mold surface (gel coat) until the resin cures. The gel coat is then back-filled with straight resin, resin mixed with metal powder, resin mixed with lead shot (for weight) or Foam-iT!® 5 rigid foam..


      • a bronze box 10x10x5 is the same size a bricks they lay on the ground to walk on, exposed to weather, bronze turns a very dark colour!

    • Walk out into the desert..sounds good but where? Maybe the salt mines in AZ where objects of the past stay preserved forever!!

  33. there are lot of comments and word said to the poem given, a word that speaks is to help one out! you all don’t follow my say I so that see , a man that has that meek upon us. I have only met forrest 2 times in life! I was once blamed by a girl to have put a bugger on a painting! I had a teacher by the name of ford in the 1970 error mm I was told about forrest! a braclet that has a bounty on it worth 20 k
    is worth the miles walked, too far to walk ,no ,not for a horse that wont spook! read the sky see the stars !

  34. A lot of people won’t like this idea, but it’s a thought.

    There are many on here who would simply give Forrest back his bracelet for free.

    But let’s say you decide to do the legal thing and claim the chest and its estimated worth to the IRS. Then the Uncle Sam sends you a nice lovely bill for all your hard earn work. So, why not just sell the bracelet back to Forrest for the price the IRS charges?

    We’ll see how much Forrest REALLY loves that bracelet if charging him $400,000 for it. hahaha

    • I think he offered to buy it back for something like $25,000. A lot of searchers would give it back as their way of saying “thanks” for doing this treasure hunt and giving us the opportunity to possibly find and own the chest and it’s treasure, not to mention the wonderful experiences along the way.

      What’s your way of saying thanks if you’re that fortunate?


      • So you find the treasure and tell everyone.guess who knocks on your door? Not its not Fenn its the IRS, you will be lucky if they leave you in your shorts:)

          • as I understand it, the feds searched Fenns residence looking for something specific but never found anything, what if its in the chest?

          • What if it’s not? No way they will know unless you are an attention hound and blast pictures and post all over the internet. NOT ME!

        • Pam, more importantly, why would I tell everyone? I like privacy. Keep it secret- keep it safe.

          Hopefully it’s not that he harbors some conspiracy theories…? Hopefully not one of those people who thinks the gov’mint is listening in and tracking us all, (and yet illogically, hasn’t got to the treasure yet themselves)! 😉

          Besides, as has been stated before: it’s not income /under IRS jurisdiction until you turn it into money and spend it. Right now It’s just artifacts and shiny rocks. One of the advantages of treasure huntin’ something other than a suitcase full of cash… that bronze box is not IMMEDIATELY subject to taxes, and not subject to lottery/sweepstakes/casino laws either.
          Some of us might just like to Go In Peace and keep those items for their emotional/artistic value …perhaps in our own version of a ‘treasure vault’ like FF’s, rather than pimp them on Ebay. Money =/= wealth.
          FWIW, My plan, if I’m so lucky as to be the 1-in-25,000 chance winner, is to scheme with my children on how to reinvest/recycle a third or so of the treasure into a set of all new Treasure Hunts –keep the fun going! Same artifacts/same coins!!
          Wish everyone else was thinking that way too, but alas.

          • Wow Mapsmith! I never thought of it that way. That’s a fantastic idea! I am new to all this so forgive my ignorance. All this talk about the IRS kind of spoils the fun, but not when you put it that way. I would however, let ff know and send him his bracelet. May I ask how you would keep your children from telling others?

          • if your cel has GPS it can be tracked, & since fenn knows many people he will keep tabs on anyone in the area, and of course right here..never underestimate him.. he has eyes & ears everywhere..:)

          • Ah the Neat thing about cell phone tracking…. Unless its a literal satellite phone like Everest climbers use, it’s actually being “gps” tracked via cell tower triangulation. If you’re somewheres uninhabited, like the wilds of the Rockies, you might be in an area that’s lucky to have 1, let alone 3 , towers.
            I take a CB radio in backcountry anyway. Breaker breaker good buddy.

          • never underestimate anyone..if you do when you think your alone, guess who walks around that big tree or rock, someone you least except to see:)

          • mapsmith – “Besides, as has been stated before: it’s not income /under IRS jurisdiction until you turn it into money and spend it. ”

            Sorry mapsmith, but this is a incorrect statement. All “assets acquired” must be reported to the IRS and you will be taxed based on “street” value.

            For example, say you went on a cruise and won a painting in a raffle prize. The painting itself is just a piece of paper with paint on it, but it has value. And you will have to pay tax on its “value.” This is the same reason why so many Price is Right contestants opt to not receive their prizes. I know it sucks having to pay for something you may never sell, but that’s the American government (and they say the people are in charge).

            More recently, the kid who won the Picasso from the raffle will have to pay a estimated $350,000 before even receiving the painting (by US tax law, whether or not the French raffle honors that is up to them). His best chance is to say it was stolen between his flight from France back to US (that is if he just wants to keep it, but then he’ll have to go throughout his life trying his best not to hang it up at his house or tell anybody. If caught he will face even more charges in penalties and possible jail time. Ask all those celebrities about this one).

            Now if you want to “keep it secret.” You have this option with Forrest’s treasure if found. All that gold and with gold being so popular it wouldn’t be hard to find many, many buyers. Sell each piece cash and you’re left with basically free gas, free groceries, etc. for years to come. This is the same methods “pimps” use to not have to pay taxes on their “income.” Government doesn’t track, or care, how you buy the “little” things.

            Now doing this option has consequences. You will never get “credit” for finding the treasure and the treasure will never be “found.” Through time Forrest Fenn himself will lose credibility and will call the chase a hoax. If you come forward after spending the gold, the IRS will come after you for the value of the “contents.” And if you say there was no gold inside the chest then you discredit Forrest Fenn again. Basically, you win but Forrest loses.

          • djjmciv,
            Interesting points made. I would like to think the person who discovers the chest would do what ff would want. I know when it comes to money people lose sight of what is really important. Not me! I have seen what greed does. I’m confident my heart and good conscious will guide me to do what is best for all parties involved. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

          • I respectfully disagree. Let’s move tax discussion to “legal ponderings” though…. 🙂

          • remember if you find the treasure..let everyone know so the feds get 90% of it..or better yet over a period of time dispose of it SLOOOOOOOOLY..little trade here..dis & dat:)

          • (Pam — one way: they’re old enough to know better than to cross me. Ha!)
            I don’t know about the bracelet. I’m torn; Ending the fun by letting him know it’s over is a downer. might leave that in the spot as a second place prize 😉

            Yeah I think the IRS talk is a downer too, but those naysayers aren’t going to be the ones who find the chest IMO. You can either chase for the adventure or for profit. The best profit would be made via well-publicized auction or a moneybags collector: in that route, you face the music with IRS and the media/news, but you gamble that the ‘sold’ price might go beyond $3M and you take home $1.5 or more, and maybe that’s your price for privacy, who knows. I like to think mine’s higher. That’s from a 42-lbs-lighter-POV though, and I reserve the right to change my mind, 😉 minus the third I promised to my kids that we’d recycle into a new hunt…

            Oh yeah! that reminds me of another way that FF will know if the treasure is found: There’s reasonable chance that if one person figures it out, others will too, right? The second place person will email FF saying “HEY! I followed the perfect set of clues, and here they were, (XXXX) , but all I found was a vague footprint of 10×10 ?! What gives? Did you move it?”
            That’s a cheaper method than a GPS widget 😀 !

          • Haha. It’s interesting to think one might do the Indiana Jones thing and “give it to a museum” after finding the chest. Wouldn’t that be cool for everyone involved in the chase to head to a museum in Santa Fe and walk up to the chest on display and dream that’s what they could of saw out there. If only they’ve “been wise”

          • Map, I love the idea of starting another Chase w/ a portion of the Find !!… I say now, that I may consider that “IF” I am the lucky one… It may be difficult to find a cohort though… considering that two can keep a secret if one is dead. Also, I do find it pointless to discuss IRS issues or other scenarios about the found treasure.. After all, it has not been found as far as WE ALL KNOW.

          • I’m open to sponsoring one or two subsequent treasure hunts but not to the porportions mentioned above (hinging, of course, I find it first). Mainly because of the plans I have for the treasure itself and all the good it will do for others in the years to come. I think my plans will be well within FF’s hopes that the person who finds it will use the money for the betterment of others. Since I do not have the treasure in hand, I’ve yet to ponder 🙂 whether to tell the IRS or not , either way comes with conseqences. About the bracelet….. While the bracelet’s sale back to FF would allow me to readily have seed money for my do- good business (without cashing in any gold), I haven’t decided whether I would take up FF’s offer of $25,000.00(?) or part there of, for the bracelet, or feebly attempt to reciprocate his generosity by simply hand it over to him like he never titled to me in the first place. If I was John Hickenlooper, the pass-the-buck governor of Colorado, I would leave it where I found it , remove any evidence that I had been there, and let the next guy make the decision. All a mute point of course, unless I find the chest first.

          • Well, here is another tax perspective:

            If I am brave and in the wood,
            he’ll give me title to the gold.

            This part of the poem tells me that FF has not yet given up ownership of the golden
            treasure. So, if I find it, and come to him and bring him the bracelet, THEN he will give me title to the gold.

            (Certainly it’s not a raffle prize, not a type of gambling winning, not a lottery, not earned income, not rental income, not interest or dividend income, right ? Could be capital gain though, or “Other income”, hmmm)

            Now, clearly, before he gives me title to the gold, I will ask him: Is this a gift from you to me? So, assuming I could get FF to say, “yes, it is a gift”, then the tax situation might be as follows: “A gift is tax free to the recipient, and the IRS Gift Tax is due to be paid by the Giver of the gift”.
            Now, somehow I doubt that I could trick FF into making this “a gift to me”, but I’ll try.

            And if that doesn’t work, may be I can get him to give it as a gift in $14,000 per year installments, below which the gift tax does not yet kick in.

            If that scheme doesn’t work, I’ll work out some kind of deal with him that entails him giving this treasure chest as an early inheritance, (a bequest among the living) not just to me, but to several members of my family, in order to keep the individual inheritance values below the limit
            where the estate tax kicks in. (Where is that limit for 2014?, I gotta look this up)

            And if that doesn’t work, he can donate it to a foundation whose whole purpose is to slowly hand over money to me and family.

            There, I think I got it now!

            The rest of it can be told with a song:

            Hush little baby, don’t say a word
            Pappa’s gonna buy you a mockingbird

            If that mockingbird don’t sing
            Pappa’s gonna buy you a diamond ring

            If that diamond ring turns brass
            Pappa’s gonna buy you a lookin’ glass

            If that lookin’ glass gets broke
            Pappa’s gonna buy you billy goat

            If that billy goat don’t pull
            Pappa’s gonna buy you a cart and bull

            If that cart and bull turns over
            Pappa’s gonna buy you a doggie named Rover

            If that dog named Rover don’t bark
            Pappa’s gonna buy you a horse and cart

            If that horse and cart fall down
            You’ll still be the sweetest little baby in town.

      • Woof_up_the_Gold,
        Interesting and imaginative ideas you have. Believe me when I tell you FF thought of everything. Assuming the chest is discovered in his lifetime, he should be the one to decide what to do, and who to tell. Don’t you agree? Besides, why are we all assuming the person who finds it would actually take it?

        • I agree Pam…. an assumption can be a bad thing…especially when it is unfounded. Not talking about you personally but they say that an assumption will only make an ass out of you and mi.

        • I don’t think Fenn hid is box alone….if he was a sick as he said he was, he needed help at times..some trusted friend went with him, someone he knew would never tell !

          • Terrence, if we are to believe what Forrest says, he said at various times that no-one else knows where he hid the treasure. I can’t provide a link but I do remember him saying that. I do not think Forrest lies to us exactly – he might not tell us Everything and he may Embellish things, but I don’t consider that outright lying meant to deceive us. Plus, I do not believe he was sick with cancer when he hid the treasure. He said it took him 15 years to write the poem and I would think he wrote the poem before he hid the chest. He may not have even started the poem until a few years after he recovered from his cancer treatment, he doesn’t really say when he started writing it. Anyway, I really do not think anyone else knows where the treasure is.

          • Help to & from, not placing the item. He was and is old,with a young brain like me 🙂 But his body was still healing.

          • II thought he buried that box like 3 or 4 yrs ago…perhaps my printing is different than some others:)

          • Terence, he was not sick with cancer and was long healed from the treatment. People are generally considered “cured” after 10 years. He had cancer when he was about 58 and hid the treasure when he was 79 or 80. Yes, that’s pretty old but anyone who has met Forrest knows he is in pretty darn good shape for someone in his 80s and perfectly capable of driving there on his own. While I do think he was alone when he hid the treasure, I do not think he walked very far with the chest and treasure. Even if he made 2 trips to hide it all, I still think he would not want it to be “too far to walk”. 🙂

          • for this arena,, I take the advice from an od sgt gave me a long time ago.. If you keep your mouth shut, you will learn this keys..however.. here sometimes idea’s get mixed with undefined truth:)

          • What???? Why do you ask? Most of what I have written is what I would call common knowledge to anyone who has read either Forrest’s blog, TTOTC book, Dal’s blog, Stephanie’s blog, or any of the other blogs out there. There’s LOTS of info on Dal’s site in particular – have you read any of it or watched his videos?

          • Im sure when Fenn placed his box he did that alone, but his trip to the area, I believe he had help. Recovering from heavy treatment to get rid of cancer in his body was draining. Think of a times when you were recovering from either sickeness or injury and imaging hikeing somewhere with a load..!

          • I stand corrected, the book led me to believe he was weak from recovering from cancer! Like I say if you never screw-up your not doing anything!

        • He said he hid it, and that is that. He washed his hands of it or something like that. What we do with it is of no concern to him, except to get the bracelet back, possibly.

  35. i think that the chest is in a national park, state park or national historic park because they will never build on that land and it will be preserved forever. Forrest wants someone whose in the chase to find the chest, not someone building a road for 6.50 an hour. Who ever finds it will be smart enough not to tell they found it on federal or state land. Any thoughts?

    • That might be, except for the fact Im sure Fenn has every dealer of Jewels, gold, bronze, artifacts, to contact him if its goes on the market, he will pay them with a reward for any info..never underestimate him..he is shrewd..and sneaky!

      • Terence: I agree with you..your as screwy and somewhat disjointed..something like me:) Keep up the good work!!

          • I gave up the consumption of spirts long & diet pepsi is now my favorite drinks! Iam old with a young mind of 40…:)

          • I hate to travel thru any woods alone, my old buddies are either deceased or in worse shape than I use what works best, my mind and when I think I might have a good clue I will let someone know:)

          • Thank you Terence. That’s very kind of you. Every opinion counts. You have some great ideas and thoughts.

  36. Dal* I just heard you podcast. You surely are our cheerleader. Thank you for the chance you give us to post our thoughts, opinions, and theories.

  37. Page 126 (the full shot of the open chest) shows a “key” resting on the wood to the right side of the box and a small and mysterious gold object that appears to the left of the box. Any ideas on what that is?…and could it be a clue?…Neither item shows up in the loaded chest.

    • Folks have brought that object up before. I have never heard Forrest say exactly what it is nor have I seen any object on his list of items in the chest that could be it. Of course there are likely many more objects in the chest than what is on his list. That object may not even be an item inside the hidden box. It may be just a golden object that he had laying around when he wanted to have photos taken of that chest. One person said they believed that object was a golden top…a toy. This seems the most logical idea, given it’s appearance.

      The key, of course, is the key to the chest, which Forrest has told us he placed inside the chest and the chest is not locked.

      • The thing that I find amazing is that the chest is so old, and it still has the key. I have a footlocker that is only 30 years old and I lost the key for it years ago.

      • Dal you have a section on yoor blog that talks about what the items in the chest is worth and I believe your buddy said 10k (not real sure didnt want to go back and check) but Forrest said $375 which is a difference just wondering and I know this is a estimated guess on both parts but what is your take.

      • You found the key..ah ha the key to where the treasure was put there for a reason, what was it pointing towards??

  38. Stop. Take a little time,
    And jam to the beat while you hear my rhyme,
    And listen to the things I’m sayin’
    Try to grasp thoughts that I’m relayin’…..

    Let’s talk people, all ages, all kinds,
    locking their doors and closing their blinds,
    afraid of the world outside,
    try to do something but then decide
    nothing, you aint gonna change it!
    Powers that be have already arranged it!
    The many, controlled by the few,
    power to the people but the jokes on you!

    Let’s talk treasures, they shine in the sun,
    And when I’m lookin’ for ’em, It’s a load of fun,
    But the trove only sees the light of day
    When I find it at dusk in the month of May!
    So hear me all and go my way,
    To the mountains North of Santa Fe!!

    • Well done!! Just keep in mind Montana is where fenn grew up as a kid, a place he liked, I do not think he would actually share those places with strangers, hence I really think what lies hidden is closer to where he lives, but not in Montana where most will go – for nil!

  39. Does anyone want to get an expedition going for this spring possibly? I’m tempted to say if people work together there might be a higher chance of finding “it” 🙂

  40. Thoughts:

    What is Forrest talking about “in the wood” and “blaze”?
    Perhaps these two things can help us solve one another. Forrest said the treasure isn’t in a tree but surround, but what he didn’t say is this…….

    A BLAZE can be a campfire, most campfires are fueled by WOOD.

    Forrest’s secret location, before he left, could have set us up with a ready to go campfire before he left. Remember our effort will be worth the cold so we would want to get warm as quickly as possible.

    So what if…..
    If you’ve been wise and found the campfire.
    If you are brave and looked inside the wood making up the campfire.

    Could this be what he meant by “hidden?”

  41. If you reached “water high” have you gone past the blaze and missed it or does your quest move you past “water high” to find the blaze….Any comment?

    • the blaze – get a book on signs & symbols and by all means one of Boy Scouts trail blaze markings of the 1940-50’s…lots ideas out there some good & some well off the wall..:)

      • Yes the blaze could be anything from a mark on a tree, natural formation, to the everyday trail marker on hundreds of trails across the Rockies. But in respect to how the poem reads is “water high” a marker that you have arrived now search or a marker that you have missed it?

        • I can see why no one has found it yet..the poem is a guide.. but you need a starting point , without that your spinning your wheels!

  42. Just one more thought on claiming VS not claiming.

    Say you found the treasure and later on (say 10 years) decide to tell the world of your genius in the solution of the poem.

    You may not only face the IRS but also lawsuits of other searchers.

    For example, say I found the treasure 3 years ago and just now bring forth claim that I had found the treasure and when I found it. Then Dal would actually have a legitimate lawsuit claiming that by keeping it a secret he spent countless time and money he can’t get back looking for the treasure that isn’t there. Now before you jump to say he has no case the bottom line and the main point of suing other people is that my “actions” caused him to spend time and money. Good chance it’ll settle out of court and, though he may not get all his money back, he will probably get something.

    Now this is all just hypothetical, but a fair warning to those that would want to keep the secret secret. One day, if I find out, you will see me in court. 😛

    • NO, NO and NO – – You cannot link any liability or obligation to the person who found the treasure to those who continue to look, if the finder never says she/he found it UNLESS that person deliberately tells someone else to keep searching or misleads others that it is not found. Even ff has no obligation to tell others if/when he knows it is found. HE has no obligation to you. It is your choice to keep looking. Your free will. Just like if your truck breaks down looking for it, it isn’t the treasure’s hider or finder to fix your truck. If you can’t stand the risks involved in searching, don’t go looking. And you certainly aren’t BRAVE if that’s the case.

    • Respectfully disagree: I’m certified and licensed in a law enforcement related field, and have relatives with actual JD degrees, and done my duty under oath ..and I’ve never once seen it go down anyway like that.
      Not telling a virtual stranger you found or didnt find a missing box of bronze? You’re describing ‘inaction’, and aside from rendering life saving help, or providing full disclosure about a hazard for which I own, inaction of the kind you’re describing is NOT sue-able.
      Now, If -in your example- Dal and I had a written agreement about sharing any treasure finds, or if we were registered as co owners of “treasurehuntin’ Inc”…? And he spent $$ because I kept my find quiet ….Sure, he’d have grounds then.

    • melt the gold down, sell if around the country while your on vacation….there is always a way to stay undected..if your real sneaky you bound to get caught..there are other ways..what are they..thats for you to find as your are!

  43. The point is when you’re slapped with a lawsuit, you are slapped with a lawsuit. Regardless of what it is for you will then have to spend money on lawyers, etc.

    “Except, the Paris family has been forced to shell out more than $4,000 in legal fees two months before the case is even scheduled to be seen by a judge, according to the report.” – From a article where a family is being sued cause their kid threw up his baseball helmet and it hit another kid on the foot, supposedly tearing his Achilles tendon.

    $4,000 just to get to the point where the judge is scratching his head wondering why you are wasting his time. In the mean time there will probably be a court order placed on you not selling anything out of the chest until after the verdict, in the event you were to lose.

    Just saying if Forrest she’s Joe Texas with 6 kids and a pick up truck the likely person to find the treasure, then on the flip side Joe Texas with 6 kids and a pick up truck is likely got nothing to lose to get “a piece of the action”

    Which brings up another point, when out on the search. Make sure you carry a gun or some sort of protection. Not just for bears and mountain lions.

    • Are you kidding! Lawsuits and now guns! This is about adventure and discovery and getting away from what you are suggesting… IMO

    • Using a weapon in legal self defense is a guarantee for court and lawsuit time.
      I would encapsulate all the coins as from the Fenn treasure to make them worth 3 to 10 times their undocumented value, pay all taxes and let all idiot lawsuits have their day in court, defended only by myself and dismissed by the judge as baseless
      Any further discussion should be under “legal ponderings”

      • If its anywhere near the type of place I believe it to be in, and I “defended myself” legally, there would be no lawsuit or court…because there would be no plaintiff

        • Only a fool would believe that there are no repercussions involved in a newly rich person shooting and killing another person over a disputed treasure; who would then not be challenged in a wrongful death lawsuit by all the long lost relatives coming out of the woodwork
          THINK before you advise others to act irrationally and irresponsibly.

          • It’s kind of like, if a tree falls in the forest with no one around, does it make a sound.
            If someone is killed in the desert, who’s to say it was you?

            Remember we are talking about Forrest’s secret spot. A spot we once thought about going to die. So we can assume that it’s a spot that a “body” wouldn’t be discovered or “stumbled upon.”

            And if you’re thinking about sending the dogs remember Forrest might have thought of this too. Think about his wife and family that notice he hasn’t come home yet. Wouldn’t you think they would send a search party to see if he collapsed out “in the mountains north of Santa Fe” So maybe ol’ Fenn has even thought of a spot that would throw off the dogs – “water high.”

            Then the poem would turn into a murder mystery to solve. lol

          • Djj: feigning psychopath? Or just truly unaware of the phrase ‘forensic evidence’?
            Either way, good luck with that ‘strategy’. Hope you’re loaded for bear. Literally. 😉

          • ‘forensic evidence’? in the middle of the forest..or even the desert .like the treasure unless you know where to look..after time nothing remains!

          • You in the middle of nowhere – self-defense- from predator human or otherwise – is legal..gee they fell down an old mine shaft..bye !!

          • Hey IDA ho,
            I’m not advising ANYBODY to do ANYTHING….I simply stated my opinion of self defense….following everyone elses opinions…so don’t daddy lecture me.

          • Here’s the daddy lecture for anyone who needs it – – from a long time CCW holder

            1. You violate the 1st 2 rules of self defense by shooting someone who has surprised you in the secret spot and only wants the treasure.
            2. IF you are tied to the shooting, you will look guilty by hiding the facts.
            3. We don’t live in the “Old West” anymore. You can expect to answer for your actions in a court of law.
            4. If you don’t come forth with the facts, who’s to say YOU weren’t taking the treasure from HIM?
            5. If you fancy yourself a gunslinger, walk right in to the Robert Taylor Homes in Chicago and see where that gets you –
            – HINT – silver dollars on your eyes.
            6. Self Defense is a Science, there are rules of engagement.
            7. Your arguments are not just “like bringing a knife to a gunfight”. You are inte.lectually unarmed, and so defenseless in a court of law.
            8. Go ahead with your snarky answer, I’m done posting with the junior cadets here,

          • Look idahoel, I may have taken the whole “fool” comment as a personal attack, and you probably did not intend it to be. lets just say I have “experience” with self defense cases. I am not a “gunslinger, nor do I EVER want to kill another human being…if handing the box over would keep everyone involved alive, I would probably do just that…but if I feel threatened in any way, I would not hesitate to defend myself…and it would be tempting to just “walk away”, but I wouldn’t. One thing is for sure though…I would be the only one telling the story, there would be no conflicting points of view. You sound like an intelligent person, so there is no need to tell you that these posts by in large are full of “talkers” that we will probably never encounter “In the wood”. I apologize for taking your posts personally…lets just talk about the treasure and forget about the killing of human beings shall we? No need to quit posting–you can disregard my post saying goodbye….stay and share your knowledge in a positive way, and I will attempt to do the same. What do you say?

  44. I think there might be a catch when finding the treasure. Like some additional items or items to claim, so that the person who finds it, will really want to “TELL” to get the rest of the treasure. Just thinking.

    • Lou Lee,
      I agree, but I don’t recall ff ever saying he would know WHO discovered it. He may only know that it is gone. That would leave most in the dark and full of unanswered questions. I think there is much more to the story.

  45. At the very least an Honorable person would return the necklace he asked about, Forest would then know,,,if the person is not honorable it is possible it is already gone,,, in the future no one would every know, if the person kept quiet… Look at all the Egyptian treasures and sunken treasures…. Personally I would return the necklace anonymously. I do not need no 15min of fame. I would expect him or his family to let the world know the treasure was found…..but…..
    To keep it interesting I would leave some behind for the next person…I would find great pleasure in being someone who knows where it is. A secret shared only by two and following along to see who finds the rest..

    • I believe it has little to do with honor CDN, but more with appreciation, . Earlier I posted about meeting in the middle of the road and perhaps negotiate with ff for the bracelet. Then I thought….this man has given many people a reason to change their lives, Including mine, whether they find the chest or not. This being said, I would gladly give the bracelet to ff without compensation in return. This will not only complete the finder’s circle, but ff’s as well. All one can hope for is that the summation of their life will fall on the positive side in the eyes of their fellow man, and I for one will not be the one that denies any man his due.
      Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man
      That he didn’t, didn’t already have
      And Cause never was the reason for the evening
      Or the tropic of Sir Galahad

      …and neither has Forrest Fenn

      In this lies your appreciation …or not.

      So says an honorable man…..

      • Hiimspidey –

        The Thrill of The Chase – has been a wonder and a conquest that many of us have given our efforts and total time to. Forrest knows this as well – but have we worked on it for fifteen years? No of course not. Will it take that long to figure out?

        His putting together a chase like this – that in his own words “is difficult but not impossible” has been in my life so fun, so educational, and so wonderous in trying to figure exactlly how he did this.

        The man, himself is a study to be sure. How does he think, I think I know – just like my dad – and that is so special.

        Would my dad expect the bracelet back, had he done this – No. Would I want to give it back -with no money exchange – of course.

        I love this hunt and wish everyone a happy one.

    • I would sell the treasure to the highest bidder, hoping that some of the items have special collectors value. And of course I’d give the bracelet back to FF, because he made this treasure hunt possible. Then I’d take part of the proceeds and make possible a new treasure hunt.
      Just to keep things going.

      It just reminds me of the fact that the last time I participated in a treasure hunt was many years ago in the boy scouts, and that itself, with or without millions, provided some great memories.

      • If it has been found..I sure it would all be sold off very quietly. Noone would ever know, perhaps have Fenn goes to the big gold nugget in the sky it might come out..but I doubt it!

        • @Terence, since I’m planning to go a-seaching next week, I hope you are right about it not being found.
          @ into- somehow I now get the feeling it is all by design… don’t you? Whether you want to believe in your lucky stars or the Almighty….the ending will be determined on how you chose to get there. There will always be a fiddler to pay, but the trick will be to make him play your song.

          • That says it in a nutshell:) I wish you the best of luck!

            I still think Mr F has an eye in the sky to keep tract of his booty!

    • I have no idea why DG is smiling, and all the other comments following this are equally cryptic. I mean, jeez, FF is cryptic enough already, so why are you folks all speaking in tongues here ?

      There are tons and tons of different places to search and nobody here seems to know anything, so far.

      • Well if we think we know we’re not gonna share our spot ,,,well not me anyway unless I already searched a spot and it ain’t there then I’ll tell about that 🙂

        • For the most part no one has a clue where to start to search for “The Treasure”, so they bounce off ideas around and find out If there is one that looks good, however if you have an idea in your head already, most like you wont accept whats put in front of you. Is the Golden Box in New Mexico.”NO” I would guess Fenn went on a nice long vacation & somewhere he decided to put it down!

          • Does it matter what anyone else thinks of your ideas? Do you think being abrasive is going to make people angry enough that they will respond and tell you everything they know? Old game, and it never works.
            Happy hunting! 🙂

          • you think im abrasive..i just say it like I think it should be can either take it or leave it..however if I have disprespected anyone in any way..then you my apologies! onward & forwards:)

  46. Jan-
    Good call. WSD is typically discussed in computer science circles, because of the challenge for computer programs to recognize the correct and intended meaning of multiple-meaning words in context, and the need to develop algorithms that interpret language. Common programs like iPhone’s Siri depend on this technology, and sometimes it works well and sometimes Siri is very confused. Computers can’t yet touch what the human mind can do. But everyone speaking English, or any language for that matter (but perhaps especially English), is naturally doing this all the time when we listen or read.

    When we get into the realm of poetry, classical word sense becomes astronomically more challenging and open to personal interpretation,imagination, atmosphere, etc., opening up endless opportunities for meaning, as it is in all the arts. You can bend a LOT, at will. Perhaps this is why Forrest chose to use a poem, rather than a map (although the poem may be a kind of map), drawing, figures, or some other format. Poetry floats the word meanings.

    Why did Forrest chose a poem to embody his clues for the Chase? Why not some other method? It’s the very nature of poetry that allows Forrest to explore the meaning of words and use them in clever and creative ways to camouflage the clues. He may have considered other ways, but he said “So I wrote a poem”. He obviously enjoys poetry, and is happy to quote his faves at his public talks.

    I hate to say this, but there might be someone out there using WSD algorithms to try and crack this thing. But I think this poem is not solvable that way, because a computer program is not likely to be able to handle the word sense and also think creatively in 3D, and other reasons. Computers don’t have good imagination (although artificial imagination is in the works). Although it certainly could sort out a mountain of possibilities…


  47. Why “look quickly down” means you are at a cliff…

    Think about it here for a second. A lot of people get stumped because look quickly down doesn’t make sense. Most people probably imagine walking along, looking at the ground as they search, so why look quickly down when you are already looking down to begin with? Naturally another option is that it could be in a hole or……as the poem states…..

    Tarry scant with marvel gaze, could mean don’t stand at the edge of the cliff and marvel at the beautiful scenery like most travelers. Become a searcher, a hunter and ignore the sight and look down.

    Many of Forrest’s comments could suggest this: “throw myself on top of the treasure” – and when he said something along the lines of driving his truck off of water high <—so the cliff could also be a waterfall?

    More evidence come from searchers being "within 500 ft" Why is it always 500 ft? Why has nobody been closer?

    So the question is: Are there any cliffs in the Rocky mountains that fit the poem and are 500 ft tall?

    • Djj: I’ve been thinking all the references to up and down and left were easily translated to map directions: drawing nigh = veering left; waters high = water to the north; look quickly down = gaze due south. Feel even more confirmed of this when TFTW was released with not only a map, but a map with bright red lines (going through the poem itself) which are all about compass directions…

      One Poem related thing itches me: stanza 5 / sentences 6 and 7: “I must go” “leave” “done” “weak” …he spent 15 years writing this map/poem/code. Why state the obvious, that he’s old and he’s decided to gift his gold? What’s the “It” in sentence 7? The game of Life? This route to the gold? Can’t help but wonder if it’s more poetic, and maybe the death/existential references here mean head into the sunset; and go West young man…?

      But, it’s all “IMHO” — ya can’t prove it till you find it 😉 July can’t come fast enough. Might have to make it June!!

      • mapsmith – I’ve never been a big fan of nigh = left theory. To me, nigh is only there because something has to rhythm with high. “drawing” has always been a more fascinating “clue” possibility, but I typically don’t think that line has any clues in it, it’s just telling us you’re close. Least that’s my translation

        But I hear you on some of the mysterious.
        The one I’m hung up on is “I’ve done it tired”
        Does that mean he has make the track to his “secret” many times before as a old man = “tired”
        But now he’s a old man with cancer = “weak”

        Or does it mean “IT” is some accomplishment.
        Maybe he’s wading across the Rio and it’s current
        Maybe its a tough trail

        • More than once, after wine & late at night ….I’ve pondered if tired means ” on tires” or via a wheeled vehicle , like a bike.
          Part of the fun; all this wordplay

          • What if IT is a marathon?? (done it tired)

            And the whole poem plots the path the runner takes across the Rocky Mountains?

            And the “gold” is the medal you get for finishing?

            Oh no!!!!

          • Didn’t see that one but I like it. I believe that is the type of thinking that’s needed. After going over and over the poem I keep thinking of what he is trying to do poetically.
            Its like he used a thesaurus to tell a story with as few words as possible with multiple meanings… for example: there/there or where/where (so with this thought process I do not believe down means down in both instances in which it is used).
            He also ensured almost every word had an opposite somewhere else in the poem for example: warm/cold or begin/end.
            I believe the key is trying to figure out which meaning he means for each word.
            The last couple of comments have been great food for thought.

  48. TSGIFST. SKSHBW5F. IWO3OCWTN4P. WWWHOTIWGB.T8LHT3. HA,S,FC,LP,WT5,B,FPTSR,ALA6WF, MT1,TBP, WBCTSPTFI, BESIHAHTPMTASR. I will explain what that all means later once it’s found. For those who want a solution – email I won’t post it here as that wouldn’t be fair for those who want to figure it out and go see it for themselves. It’s also a long document full of clues and information. If I’m wrong and it out there, then enjoy finding the chest with this real poem solution. There can only be one solution. It can’t apply to different places and you will see why. Have fun with your search.

  49. I would have to psychic to predict the above and then have the bracelet given to Mr. Fenn soon. Perhaps I’m wrong. You should read the solution and decide.

  50. to me look quickly down means look but not far for your quest to cease that’s just my opinion

    • “If you’ve been wise (studied his stories] and found the blaze, look quickly down ( not deep- shallow- doesn’t take but a few seconds to reach the treasure). Def don’t think it is a cliff. Nigh – left, cross to other side of creek. Still don’t know “if in the woood ” is actually in the wood, or another term for “in the weeds” finding his treasure in a wood box or structure. The chest is always pictured sitting on a wooden crate…were they hidden together? He never said “drive my truck in high water” but did say ” throw my bike in the high water” in a response to an email. IMO, we will all be surprised about how it was hid when it is found, IF the finder releases that info.
      I still think there should be a reality show where it follows diff searchers each week of this summer. It would be awsome!

      • Mike B from Toronto might be putting together something just like that…. ( TreasurehuntersTV at g mail )

  51. Hear me all and listen good. If you can FIGURE the home of Brown the rest of the poem will help you. Why? because the following clues are just talking about things in the back yard so to speak. Forrest said as much He said “if I told you that clue you would go get the treasure” (not word for word but close). Wooo Knows if that’s true. Could the home of Brown be the blaze? Below the home of Brown sounds like look quickly down maybe thats why you need to be wise to find the blaze because the home of Brown is a hard nut to crack. Go figure….

    • Yes your right, BROWN is the key, what does Brown represent? Place, object, thing, person, color, company, etc……..>

  52. I was just reading on Forrest blog about spices and was just remembering my grandmas pickled corn and how much I would kill for some right now. She is gone and maybe pickle corn with her but it’s the memory that is mine. The Thrill Of The Chase will be the same for all of us and I will post picture of me and the chest so you can have the same memory 🙂 lol

  53. Stephanie, Dal, or anyone else that recalls this please help!!
    Somewhere Forrest said something about remembering driving for a long time on a rough dirt road….
    Does ANYONE remember reading or hearing him say that?? If so, can you lead me to it?

    • MichaelD, no I do not remember FF saying that, but When I meet with him I told him of the long drive on a rough dirt road….going to the burning bush Monastery in NM, he acted as if he did not know what I was talking about, at first “burning bush? then later he said, “Yes, I guess that monastery would make a good Blaze…” thats a 14 mile one way dirt road.

      • Dal,
        Demoman Here, OK mother nature won this one.

        But the journey answered some very important clues –
        Home of Brown – Brown House.

        The High Water is frozen solid

        Shooting Meadowlarks is required less one dies on the trail without.

        Each and every time each clue followed reveals another
        First significant thaw I will return.


  54. Mapsmith, you posted,
    ‘ Does that mean he has make the track to his “secret”
    many times before as a old man = “tired”
    But now he’s a old man with cancer = “weak”

    I think it was ‘LIFE’ that we all do, somewhat ‘tired’ at times. FF NOW feels we are all here one on one to be enjoyed by those around us, and maybe he did not feel he did enough while he was going thru life, and now he wants to influence more, but can’t in the normal way, so he has left the treasure hunt for us to amuse ourselves. Its possible that some of these ‘MEANINGS’ we get from the last part of the poem and the book, will produce an AH HA monent when we think or read or visit that special location… thats just some partial thoughts. I am still looking for more from the poem andthe book .

    • How many of this group are past 70yrs you can relate to the old guy who hid a box somewhere?

        • That’s what makes him so special! Instead of being burned out on life and content to rock on a porch, he is still digging in the adventure of life. He has a special spirit and those who follow his chase, are all kindred spirits that can relate. Sorry, didn’t mean to get goofy, just sayin’…!
          ¥ Peace¥

          • Page 6 – “Actually, the only thing about me that’s old is my body. My mind stays at about thirteen.”

            Think young, no problem.

  55. Also, preserving himself and a bronze box like a Pompeii citizen, would keep the treasure undiscovered for sev hundred years. If the Caldera erupts that is!

    • Caldera I was at one called the ring of fire, No the Plateau
      of Fire. I think they are a great Blaze.

  56. Coincidence or not?
    I wrote in a post earlier about the line “Not far, but too far to walk” In which the 7th line contains 7 words, 7 syllables and 21 letters. I never really decided to add them up till this weekend but
    (7+ 7+7+21=42).
    I decided to research Lewis Carroll. Look into him using the number 42 and then see how the number 42 relates to a rainbow and an asterisk.
    Also the Chest weighs 42 pounds and there is a nice picture of it on page 126 (42×3) of TTOTC.
    Figured I would pass this along. You can find more and decide if its useful.

      • Safety Joe and DP – Reading can be a thrilling adventure, also! Lewis Carroll’s story in Volume 2, relating to the number 42, in Chapter 7..I wonder if the B name in the volume title relates to another historical character I’ve mentioned? I guess that was his final work, dedicated to his friend, and both volumes were not very well received. In Shakespeare’s play, Act 4, Scene 1, there is a famous you think that was what the “number four” reference was about in that final episode of the Monty Python Flying Circus TV series, in that skit with Douglas Adams? I think Graham Chapman should have found him earlier. The 42nd episode was about WWII ( ref. 1942?), and featured Douglas Adams as a surgeon. I do not believe his denials about why he chose the number 42, for the meaning of life reference, and I am SURE John Cleese had something to do with it. And the asterisk can also refer to the Wild Card character in computer programming, and to the number 42 in ASC II (I saw something about “invalid” and “hang-up”). Remember to never, *ever* do anything without the Joker or without the E*!

        • I put a lot of thought into the poem both straight forward and definitely over thinking it. Ultimately I am just fine with learning the information I’ve gained through research on the poem. It has given a focus and allowed contemplation in spare time. I try to add helpful information.

          Many times I have wondered if leaving a chest of treasure is only the MacGuffin in pursuit of poetic perfection.
          If the chest is not found then the poem will continue to live on. If the chest is found, divided and then forgotten about then the poem will still live on as the vision of a literary luminary.

          It is not the gold that last through time… it is the vision.

          If the poem is designed by an architect…, I suspect it does more than lead me to a chest of gold.

          Another example: It is not the significance of the making of the bronze bells…it is the story and the words written upon them that matter in 1000 years.
          Then again he probably just penned the poem with no extra thought and the coincidences just fit in place. Anything other than straight forward thinking is not needed and I would follow his advice to THINK.
          Eventually all my coincidences or outlandish thoughts will come to light. Sometimes I feel as they should be shared just to see how off I really am.
          For example: look at the Lady with Mandolin painting on page 104 of TTOTC. The head is disproportional from the body. Turn the book upside-down or place it in a mirror (Alice). Do you see a different face contained in the lower half of the woman’s head? I believe the artist painted his face first for artistic expression then painted the Lady with Mandolin over.

          I’ve been trying to prove myself wrong. Besides suggesting a psychiatrist… can anyone help?

          To cover any other of my thoughts of wasted time:
          Even if the treasure isn’t real… all would not be in vain.
          Dal, your blog has been a great Over the Teacups type of experience.

          .* how about Pi x 1337%

        • DG – When I see the letter A, I think of the Golden Triangle (isosceles), because it looks like one. The ratio a:b is equivalent to the Golden Ratio f. Base angles are 72 degrees, and the vertex angle is 36 degrees. The triangle’s proportions are 2:2:1. I struggled through Calculus, Chemistry and Junior College..FYI 🙂

          • Wait, are we supposing that FF is not an overthinker? I think (haha) that would be a huge mistake. I say: Expect the unexpected. Fighter pilot poor texans aren’t supposed to become poets/art dealer/hosts of A-list celebrities. 79 yr olds aren’t supposed to hike through winter with 42 lbs into dangerous Rocky Mts. Millionaires aren’t supposed to give away $1M ..and even if they do it would never be in gold nuggets & coins AND so much fun. And a son of a principal isnt suppose to not finish school.
            No, a college grad status does not have anything ahead or behind anyone else in these poem theories IMO. Someone with an open mind and a smudge of creativity, and the urge & confidence to grab the banana, ..? yes, THEY have an advantage.
            Expect the unexpected.

            I say to Djj: who’s to say you’re not under -thinking it 😉

          • Fenn was a fighter-bomber pilot, he dropped bombs. & most likey did a bit of strafing….he was trying to make a name for himself, that didn’t work, ok I will bury a box of gold…that should get me noticed!

          • I’m just amazed how everyone thinks so different some just simple like myself others picking that poem apart like plucking feathers off a chicken 🙂 haha fun to read everyone’s thoughts

          • DG – No, I did not graduate from Junior College. But I did contribute to having one of my very bad professors removed from the school. My good friend, who now works as a scientist at one of the top U.S. companies, making lasers, contributed to that, too. As I said, never *ever* underestimate a meek, white bunny!

    • Could be purely coincidence and I am just trying to make things fit. It could be that these numbers have nothing to do with finding the chest and only a way to construct the poem.
      All the chatter about Lewis Carroll made me research Alice’s Adventures.
      Ways in which I would use this information if I did not have an exact spot or to keep in mind as I go to where I think the chest would be (what do you have to lose):

      1. 42% chance…not at all.
      2. 42 parallel
      3. 42 miles from first or second clue.
      4. 42 feet from a X or clue.
      5. 42 degree angle from X or clue (got this from Treasure Island map).

      I am sure you have other thoughts already. I am just putting out some possibilities.

      Maybe 42 is the meaning of life?

      • I thought that you can obtain the meaning of the “number 42 riddle” by turning that number upside down, when you will get, with some imagination, the letters t b, which in turns translates into “to be”.

        So that the meaning of life is “to be”.

        Eeeeh, waddya say, is that another “Fonzi scheme”?

        • Woof_up: Then, you must mean that Shakespeare knew everything,…about the meaning of life,…when he said, “To be or not to be; that is the question”? And flipping a 6 over gives you a 9…put that in your pipe and smoke it, why don’t you! I think Fonzi knew the meaning of life, too,…that having nice hair is EVERYTHING! 🙂

          • As soon as I know what I must mean, I’ll let ya know. Shakespeare, I guess, he knew a lot of stuff about everything, comedy, tragedy, profound and ridiculous, but being human he must have been imperfect, as we all are.

            I once heard an interpretation of “To be or not to be” to mean “To act or not to act”, which makes it sound more down to earth. “To be or not to be” has just so much existential philosophical quantum tripping going on.

            Ok, I put the “flipped 6 turned to 9” into my pipe, and I smoked it, and now I am sitting there, repeating “number 9, number 9..” like in that Beatles song.
            Nine clues, what does it mean?

            Meanwhile, if you flip over a 1 and an 8, it still stays a 1 and an 8, so put that into your waffle maker and make a waffle-burger out of it. 😉 Eeeeh!

  57. 42 is also the atomic number of molybdenum; the Chevron Molybdenum Mine is between Questa and Red River, NM. Some searchers consider this mine to be the “blaze”. 42 is also the critcal angle of RED in a rainbow–another clue to the Red River, NM area??

    • Cynthia,

      Maybe it is not 42 as a number but 4 and 2 as separate numbers?

      For my solution these numbers are separate and are significant to my search area.

      Oddly enough, I found this out by asking a question to a qualified field technician. The response from the tech confirmed my hunch.

      • Cynthia – Holy Moly! Thank you for that atomic number 42..Molybdenum is also the 54th most frequently occurring element, which fits with the Douglas Adams “6-by-9” solution for the meaning of life. And Moly is a required element for the evolution of life for plants and animals (if it was in the oceans sooner, we might all be further along, but we might also be facing cannibalism by Uuber-Morlocks!). Your insight was really a butte…I mean…beaut! I sure hope human beings are able to continue to evolve; morally, physically and spiritually…along the line of vertical ascension.., to become who we are destined to be. That would be the meaning of life, to me, anyway. I also thought of an important casket, from a Shakespeare play, but I was mistaken. So, I was able to make steel, but not gold..where is Albertus Magnus,when you need him, anyway? And Circe, for that matter.

  58. Questa is located at 36°42′23″N 105°35′35″W (from wiki) only the 35 are new to me, you can find references to the other numbesr in the book, not that they are just in the book, but in an unusual way. And he has mentioned to look for the unusual in the book.

    • musstag – Coincidentally, there are 35 isotopes of Molybdenum (see the Wikipedia definition for “Isotope”, if you need a refresher course in Chemistry, which I certainly do!).

  59. Toby – The poem, “Invictus”, was published in 1888, and was the favorite of FDR. The word means “unconquered” in latin, which made me think of the movie, “Invictus”, and how Nelson Mandela worked with the Spingboks soccer team to fight against apartheid, by getting them to compete in the World Cup (my friend, Jodi, has a skull for that African animal). Then I thought of Matt Damon, who was in the movie, “Good Will Hunting”, also, which is about a genius, who worked as a janitor at M.I.T.. Robin Williams, who played his psychiatrist, was really good in that one. That made me think of the movie, “Dead Poets Society”, with Robin Williams and Ethan Hawke, and of the poet, Walt Whitman. I remembered the scene, when John Keating meets his poetry class, I think, when he says they can call him, “Oh Captain, My Captain”. I think any great poet, or aspiring-to-be-great poet, would study other great poets…and the art of poetry…don’t you? And I think Robin Williams is a genius…he does have a really high I.Q., which, I think, contributes to making him quick-witted and extremely funny!

    • To add…. W.E.Henley had one leg amputated and was a friend of R.L.S.
      Apparently W.E.H, was the inspiration for Long John Sliver in Treasure Island. (wiki)
      It never ends.

  60. No it never ends… but that was all very interesting, and I’m glad I asked. When I drove by the Moly mine I was awed,,,They had fences 10′ high with barbed wire at the top…inside it looked like there was heavy security…the entrance was lit up. Every where up and down the mountain were shoots for moving materials and water piping. The Moly mine was I’d read was accused of turning the Red River blue. Talk about turning your hair white. There is over a square mile of tailings left behind by Questa, and unfortunately the article said #42 isn’t worth what it once was thus less money for clean up!
    E* I think you could have written Wiki by yourself! I’m steady listening!
    As for the bears… black, brown, Kodiak or polar I’m out!

  61. Terence That location was developed partly by the line” to far to walk”, thats not the final spot. Of Course I know it may not be anywhere near the spot.

    • I think when Fenn wrote his peom, he had in mind people would think like himself..but in reality that does not happen, we all look, read & see it from a different point of view. The peom itself is interesting, with out a location – its just a nice poem about something somewhere out there!

  62. I’m curious who all have looked into the “rental car” theory.

    Think about it: Why would Forrest feel the need to hide the date/year he hid the treasure and mention about not wanting someone to look up his records if it isn’t true.

    Who else feels this is a pretty big clue: meaning he most likely had to fly to the destination.

    And if this is true then you can reasonably rule out New Mexico and southern Colorado. Leaving us with really with only Yellowstone as the search area.

    • Because I think he likes adding mystery and embellishments. My understanding is that he’s made sure to visit each one of the states in the last 5 years. I’m sure that was on purpose. If he only stayed in New Mexico, then his family and friends would know it’s there. I highly doubt he would rent a car even if he went up there. This is why I see a flaw in that story. He said he didn’t fly to hide it. He said this to a young boy who emailed him asking. The father shared the email on my old blog. So if he didn’t fly, why would he rent a car when he has perfectly good new cars at home? So to me, that proves that he’s saying things just to cause a stir of embellished storytelling.

    • Because he doesn’t want people to know the time of year that he hid it. Some areas are more accessible in winter. River flows are much higher in spring and early summer. Your going to put your waders on and cross a river with 42 pounds on your back,or maybe a bike, when are you going to do it?

      • I’d cross when it’s frozen and I’m walking above the water…I wouldn’t want any alligators to get me 😉 Oh wait, I get hypothermia when it’s 75 degrees out. So I guess I’ll have to pass on that theory and swim if that’s the case. Do they make alligator spray?

        • Did he take two trips to hide it? What if he is saying that the poem goes one way that he used to go by water and he took another way when he went and hid it? I guess neither of those are really helpful, but it’s probably why people say there are two paths there.

        • IF he did hide it in snowy winter in the Rockies, he coulda had 100 lbs and not 1 lb of it on his back: could have put it all in a sled.

          • I don’t have an exact quote, but I know over the years he’s said in different words to basically wait till spring, summer and fall. I don’t think he ever said you can’t go in the winter, but he has said that snow effects it for sure.

          • I say thats more the reason to go hunting now. 😉
            Fewer bears now too. #1 on colbert’s threat list.

      • This chase has more to do with river flow than any other single thing. Where do FF’s “dreams and fantasies alike go to play?” Waterfalls? Anybody listening?

        • I would guess there are many natural factors that play in this, altitude probable over 7000 feet, heavy snow till may at least,waters high till September. And conditions can change so quick. The key is in the chest does that mean there are some hints to were he hid IT in what was put in the chest.

    • Too many ‘ifs’ in my opinion. I doubt it’s somewhere he HAD to fly, though a helicopter up to top of devils tower would be dang interesting… No, I think he’s a perfectly capable driver to cover 4 states. He was still piloting planes until just a few years back, after all. I suspect he drove a non rental vehicle, and the rental vehicle hint was indeed a herring of the crimson variety.

      • He taught his grandson to fly. So there wouldn’t be any reason I could imagine that he wouldn’t use that resource to go anywhere when he wanted to go far from home.

        • As long as we’re just conjecturing about the first leg of the journey, then I agree. A clever fox like FF would have laid an untrackable trail that would make even Richard Kimble envious…

          • This whole subject cracks me up, especially that helicopter part and Stephanies alligator spray. LOL

        • Terence…with one “r”-
          He flew helicopters in the AF. But Forrest had given up flying and sold his plane well before he hid the chest. In my opinion Forrest flying anything in 2009 or 2010 is out of the question.

  63. Maybe one has to cross a lake, but must wait until it freezes over to do so???

    “No place for the meek” – risking breaking through the ice
    “Worth the cold”

    • Why not walk around the lake or take a boat.The same goes for most rivers?? Perhaps its in a cave and the entrance is only accessible when the water is low.

      • The chest is out “in the elements”
        Being rained and snowed on, so a cave would be out.

          • If its outside in the rain and the snow and over time due to its weight it will sink…kiss it goodbye!

          • Forrest is a master of deception and he probable don’t want people who are too laze to figure the clues finding it by chance so I say don’t hold your breath on him being 100% honest. Caves are great places for the brave (when there’s a bear inside) and some of them are homes to Brown.

          • Mine tunnels are not for the meek, one can fall down a test hole in the mine darkened mine tunnel!

  64. Off Topic-
    I will be giving my “True Adventures of a Real Life Treasure Hunter” multimedia presentation at four libraries in my neighborhood in the next couple of months. I give out one signed TFTW book at each event. They are free and no reservation is required. If you live out here, please stop by…You can find out more on my notepad at the top of this page or here:

      • Steph-
        Flattered that you would be interested..but live streaming while presenting is an impracticality for me. Maybe I can put one together with all the visuals embedded so that it is a complete program. You can watch it on those days you have a hard time falling asleep 🙂

          • See. You need to be a star Dal. I’m working on managing Desertphiles new career and we’re going to merchandise his trampled by ranch livestock ripped and battered hat. For you, we can merchandise your pick axe. We’ll call it the DalMANater 10000. What do you think?

          • I’m fine with serving detention, but I thought I was schooled by Forrest to make up my own varients of words. Jeez…I guess I have to pay attention in class now. Thanks for ruining my fun Dal.


    Anyone ever wonder how Forrest planned to pull it off??

    I mean the original plan was to die, probably like ingesting pills, next to the treasure chest.

    Let’s also assume that the place he planned on hiding the chest hasn’t changed. That it’s current location is still the one he had planned from the beginning to be lying next to with his bones.

    Okay?? But he wouldn’t be able to take his car, people will find it parked. He wouldn’t be able to rent a car either. He wouldn’t be able to fly. Basically to go off “in the wood” and die along side the chest without giving away its position would be next to impossible….unless……

    1) The chest is secret within reasonable walking distance from his house. The chest is at least 8 miles north of Santa Fe. That’s not a bad walking distance, but with 40lbs? I’m fairly confident this is out of the ordinary.

    2) I saw on here that Forrest has joked with Stephanie that he might drive his truck over “water high” Perhaps this isn’t a joke at all. Perhaps this is a grand daddy clue. Think about it? How do you drive to your secret hiding spot and hide the treasure without anyone being able to track you? Well……simply push your car off a cliff and into water deep enough to completely submerge it.

    Anyone else have any possible explanation on how Forrest could of pulled it off?
    If not, then this provides a good description of what kind of place we need to be searching.

    Anyone know any locations where one can drive their car off a “canyon” and into “water” deep enough to submerge a car?

    • I think that’s mis information. He never joked with me about doing that. I think someone posted that and I corrected them. He said to someone else something about throwing his bike into the water. I forget what the truck was about.

    • djj-
      A variation on that idea is commonly used by folks who want bodies to disappear. They occasionally get discovered years later. Simply plan your operation in late winter. Pick a secluded lake and a deep spot on that lake. Drive out on the ice. Open the windows. Take your pills and the spring thaw will have you disappearing for years. If your car is too hard to hide you can take a snowmobile or bike or even a sled and a couple of cinder blocks for added weight to hold your body down. If you need camouflage you can cut a couple of boughs off a fir tree and throw them on top of the sled. Just looks like a tree limb caught in the ice…
      I doubt this was Forrest’s plan…but if it was and the chest is in a deep spot in a lake we’ll need sonar to find it and the sled he dragged it out there on.

      • The only person I’ve heard of that has sonar is Crayton. Maybe we’re all just chasing Crayton’s inheiritance from Uncle Forrest.

        Dal your description of all those possible ways to hide a body kind of scare me. I don’t think we should meet in dark rooms anymore.

        • Wait….why are ya’ll meeting in dark rooms to begin with……………(cue the Latino soap opera music)

        • Eric Garrison (posted about Renelle on OSFT Co.) stated he had a treasure detector that could scan for treasure up to ten miles and ha was going out to search. Seriously?! If that’s true, hope he stays away from MY spot!

          • No starting point is included..only direction’s to where one might go to retrieve the object, that init self is a crap shoot! No Rules were posted as to how we search!

          • HA!…Aircraft based GPR is not a very economic or functional method to find something as small as the chest. I’ve had a little experience with it. People give it much more credit than its worth. In the case of finding the chest…given the state of the science of GPR…I think it’s pretty useless. You would quickly spend all the money in the chest looking for it…
            Personally..I think it would make more sense to use my time machine and just go back to 2010 and follow Forrest around..

          • Dal, I’m glad to have your input on this subject. It would be so wrong if someone found it that way after so many have invested so much into playing by Forrests’ rules.

        • LOL William..that’s why he lives on an island. He probably drops a body over the side of his ferry boat every once in a while.

          • So that’s why he’s invited all the searches to his “library” talks……hmmmm…..

          • Plus how can you live stream it if you have a body over your shoulder and trying to hold the camera.

          • I think Dals going to come back to his blog and regret his “death post”. Although maybe he needs to start a sister blog on all the ways to find a treasure chest by hiding the bodies of other searchers.

          • Living on an island would be great, you would not have unexpected guests dropping by & you could sneak away and no one would know, better yet you could see who coming:)

          • Every now and then some mischievous character will go looking for trouble in a mine shaft

            I say stick with the desert. Nobody gets up and thinks. “Oh look, there’s a desert. I’m going to go hiking there”

            No telling the # of bodies outside of Las Vegas. No telling.

          • Any remains outside Vegas now has home’s built on them, it not like it was back in the 40,50,60,70’s 🙂

          • yes you are indeed correct, there are many remains found on the surface of the desert, however there are more beneath it. mainly due to Vegas run by the mob years ago..

        • William-
          A few…mostly folks who fell off their boats. Usually alcohol was involved. A lot of bodies never float…They are found on the bottom, laying on their back, knees bent arms extended. Very peaceful.

          A few years ago Crayton and the rest of our team went looking for a WWII era B-17 bomber that had landed on a frozen lake in way-the-heck-up-there Labrador in 1947. B-17 wings are worth about a million bucks each…so if the plane is salvageable a B-17 could be well worth the effort.

          We had pics taken in 1947 that showed the plane sitting on ice. It was an AAC plane so the military had lat/lon on the landing site.

          Piece of cake…just go to the lake. Find the spot and bingo…a couple million dollars in your pocket…if you can get it home…

          Anyway…when we got to the lake and set about with side-scan sonar …looking at the bottom of the lake where the plane should be….no plane…
          We slowly expanded the search area figuring maybe we were a little off. plane..

          We searched the shoreline near the landing site and found remnants of the crew’s campsite while they waited to be rescued. Shroud lines, an axe, a .45 pistol, a stove…radio antenna…all the stuff you’d expect to find in a camp…In over fifty years the camp had never been visited…nobody lives around there.

          This is a huge lake with all kinds of twists and turns and islands…hundreds of miles in length and width. No villages…no phones…nothing but clean fresh air and water. Where on earth could the plane have gone??

          We had two native guides with us and after about three days not finding the plane someone thought to ask our guide where he thought the plane could be. He pointed east and said, “Well, if I was a plane I’d go in that direction.”

          We all scratched our head…and someone thought to ask him “Why?”.

          “Well…” he said, “Looks like a lake now but in spring this is a river and all the water moves pretty fast in that direction.”

          Duh…we did not know that…
          Picture a plane with a 101ft wingspan riding on a giant piece of ice…downstream in spring when the ice breaks up…

          This option had never occurred to us…
          We actually found the plane, underwater, fifteen miles from where it landed in the direction our guide predicted.

          Lots of problem people in Chicago were executed by gangsters and hauled out onto Lake Michigan in spring. The bodies will likely never be found…

          • That was interesting about the plane. I think I saw that plane on his site. Nice payout. Do you keep track of all his “finds”? That would make for a good book.

            As for the gangsters in Lake Michigan…it adds a little zing to the drinking water here…..*licking lips*

          • I have ran across some of your searches on the net and must say you have really been around and explored. This Thrill of the Chase should be natural for you. Question did you get the wings and how did you get them back to ship, truck and ext.

          • Reminds me of a visit to Salvage Pirate Gary Larkins’ home where he showed us a video of a salvage operation of a WWII P-38 of The Lost Squadron
            resting beneath 264 feet of blue glacier ice in Greenland. Fascinating! The generator could work either the hot lights or the pump so during the day they worked in waist deep water melting the ice and taking the plane apart and at night they pumped out the water. They were very glad when that salvage operation was finished – but it definitely was worth the cold! 🙂

          • William-
            Crayton and I split from that group after that plane was found. It took several years of playing with government bureaucrats to finally get permission to remove the plane from the lake…and then from the country. Neither Crayton, nor I were part of the team that went back for the salvage. But they floated the plane up to the surface with airbags, moved it to shore, removed the wings and then towed the whole thing down the lake and back to a rail head many, many miles downstream. I believe it was then trucked down to Atlanta, GA where it is now being rebuilt. When finished, it will fly again…

            If you google “Dyke Lake B-17”, you should find some images of the plane undergoing it’s transformation in Atlanta.

          • CJ-
            Same guys. Don Brooks was the organizer of both those salvage missions. Don and his team rescued that P-38 and were the same guys heading up the search for the B-17. He hired us to find it. Don originally wanted the B-17 from that Lost Squadron…but sadly it was crushed beyond a salvage state. So they took the P-38 instead. They had to disassemble it down in the ice and bring it up a chunk at a time. That P-38 is now in flying condition. Don is an amazing fellow.

          • I ran across that story but the one I have read didn’t say if you retrieved the plane and seen other explorations you was on. I hold you in high regards reading some of your background. I posted the link just before Christmas on Stephanie web site but not sure where. I was taught not to judge a book buy its cover.

      • The car on the ice was my first thought too, but it requires death to knock on your door only certain months. Cancer is never so very convenient as all that.
        No, the answer is easy. Old fashioned , but easy.

        And it’s the one transport that no one’s been mentioning online at all, which has shocked me, really. Bikes, car, truck, helicopter. Bah!
        All a good old boy in the West needs to carry himself and 42 lbs of gold & bronze is the same transport used by Jesse James, butch Cassidy, Calamity Jane et al.
        It autopilots itself away, and never tells where it went.

      • Hmmm a bike. Now there is something I didn’t think about. How far do you think Forrest can go on a bike. 40lbs wouldn’t be much of a issue if he has a basket. (although may look a little odd riding around with a treasure chest in front of you).

        Could the chest be within biking distance of Santa Fe?

        Say 10-12 miles??

        Although Forrest said it took two trips to and from his car, a bike might have been a good 1-way trip solution. Come to think about it some more, it actually would be a very good method.

        Hell, anyone seen Forrest’s bike lately?
        Bike = Blaze?

    • I don’t know why I am going to divulge this info…but with a little imagination, it would be quite easy to return to the location without use of a car or plane…I used to believe he’d steal a plane, put it on auto pilot, and jump out over the are of the chest…but this would have to be at night to go undetected….but then some other brilliant ideas came to me…..and I am POSITIVE one of them is correct. I will leave it at that.

      • Might be a good idea. I think I recall someone saying that they feel they were given the answer by those on the blog. I think I probably should take my own advice on that as well since I hope to look again. I think your other ideas might scare me after that one.

  66. He isnt going to pollute a water source by driving his car off into it. Water is our most valuable resource in the west. 🙁

  67. Hey mapsmith, I guess that came across as yelling because it took me a long time to get to where you have apparently already been, so it was a frustrated reaction….I apologize.

    • Pshha: no apology need except for the ‘tmi’ part: no such thing in this free speech zone (as E* proves daily) 😉
      and you should know: I aint already been: Took me a long Time too. As recent as 3 weeks ago, I posted ” I still don’t get why everyone’s talking about double omegas”

      Now, I look at line 4 and think ‘riches new and old’ and think of the old Girl Scout song about friends new & old; “make new friends n keep the old, one is silver, the other’s gold”
      Silver was the Lone Ranger’s steed – something an older person knows. And a child, helping with the poem, might know the scout song

      • I think we as adults tend to over complicate the poem, it’s just our nature to make a Mt. Out of a mole hill. A child has an unobstructed view of facts. He did say to let a child read the poem. Our minds slow down and unwind as we get relaxed and sleepy, so I recite the poem over and over and have figured out a lot that way. Then in the morning, I read TOTC as I sip my coffee, and say, “Aha!”. Just a suggestion. ¥Peace¥

  68. Take the chest and leave my bones. Sounds like a place were the bones get protected. Maybe a bigger BOX? Glad I wont have to pry it out of Forrests hands.. don’t think I could do that 🙂

  69. A news article from people magazine 1988 seems to confirm FF stories. Some real good info. Maybe This should go in the MEDIA COVERAGE section.

    • Its a story about forrest and his gallery from 1988 has some interesting facts…. put in the complete http and it will work.

    • Here is what to do to get to the article:

      Put your mouse cursor about a quarter inch to the left of the item “.html” on the page above.
      Then hold down the left mouse button.
      Then move the mouse cursor slowly from ‘right to left’
      over the web page address, while holding down the mouse button.
      Now let go of the left mouse button, and move the cursor slowly over the highlighted blue area.
      Now “right click” on the blue area. A little menu pops up, and you move the mouse cursor to the line that says “open link in new tab”. You left click on that, and the thing should come up.

      I helped people with computers in another lifetime, so there you go.

      If you have no mouse, no keyboard and are using Windows 8 on a laptop with a mouse pad, then the above won’t help you. Because Win 8 is just making me mad and I am not using it. Garr. OK.

    • Chris-
      I’ve never said that and I’m steamed that someone would say I have. How in the heck would I know how many people have solved the first two clues. That’s ridiculous!!..

      • Unless you are physic and for that matter forget the chest I want Powerball numbers 🙂

        • Stephanie-
          And that is not at all the same as “Dal says hundreds of people have solved the first two clues.”
          I would have no idea how many people have figured out the first two clues
          I might have an opinion..which is what I expressed…my opinion…but only Forrest knows whether five or more than a hundred have figured out the first two clues and I certainly do not speak for Forrest!.

          If you are going to quote me..for god sakes at least quote my own dumb mistakes…I make plenty enough of those…

          • Yeah many many is different than hundreds. I just was saying that’s the quote you actually said that I think they were trying to talk about.

          • Steph-
            It’s not the difference between “many many” and “hundreds” that concern me. It’s the fact that he left off the part about this being dal’s “opinion”.
            In other words it’s not a fact. Forrest did not tell me that. It’s simply my (not worth much) opinion. Without that it makes me sound like I think I am an authority…Like I am spouting off facts about the search that I have no way of knowing…
            The word “opinion” is very important to me..

    • dal

      forrest says people have ‘figured’ but in the context of his words he appears to mean some of them guessed or happened to search the right area but didnt solve it or know with confidence they had the right clues or right place

      do you mean figured like forrest said it, or do you think many have figured and many have solved and know with confidence they have the right area for the 2 first clues

      • i know that you know

        and now you know that i know that you know

        so don’t think that i don’t know that you know that i know that you know

        you can pretend not to know ….. but i know

      • Chris-
        By figure I mean thought they were on the right track…this was part of their solution.
        In my less than informed opinion many have figured out the first couple of clues at one time or another. Some have no idea they figured them out. They could not go forward from where they were or they did go forward but messed up and got off track. In either case they quit and many decided to try a different solution.

        As long as I am in an opinionated mood…I would also venture that some have figured it out completely…all nine clues, but didn’t see the chest at the end. They too assumed when they did not see the chest that they were on the wrong track and either quit or went on to try a different solution…
        I know Forrest said the person that solves it will move with confidence…and that is why it has not been found..That person with confidence has yet to figure out all nine clues and know exactly where to look when they get there.

        Finally, I think thousands..maybe tens of thousands of folks have been within a few hundred feet of the chest. Next to none of them knew they were so close. A few thought the treasure should be there but couldn’t find it. But most don’t even know there is something called Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Chest. These folks were in the area for another reason all together.
        If it sounds like I know where it is…don’t be alarmed, I do not. This is just speculation on my part as I imagine the kind of character Forrest is and the place that Forrest would leave his chest.

        • I thoroughly agree: it’s without any doubt, IMO, a place that gets frequent -and clueless- visitors, within a fee hundred feet.
          All of my solves line up this way.

  70. I had difficulty with the link, so here is the people article posted as a link earlier…

    Forrest Fenn is a Santa Fe, N.Mex. art dealer with a bustling, eight-room gallery, but one of his most prized acquisitions is a 36-inch alligator, Beowulf, who inhabits a pond on the gallery grounds. In artsy Santa Fe, riddled with some 110 galleries, lots of folks think they detect a resemblance between Beowulf and his owner.

    It is an unkind comparison, no doubt the result of professional envy of a colleague who makes big waves and bigger bucks. The controversial and flamboyant Fenn grosses about $6 million a year by flouting tradition. His collection may politely be called eclectic: a jumble of Indian artifacts and curios, mixed with expensive paintings and bronzes. He openly sells forgeries of Modigliani, Monet and Degas, and he gets good money for them to boot. Indignant colleagues grumble, but Fenn doesn’t snap like an alligator; he only smiles like one. He gets most of the celebrity collectors who come to town.

    Charming one moment, gruff the next, Fenn admits that his flair has created a flap. “The art business is like religion,” he says. “You can lose money or break even, but if you make money, you get a dirty name.” That doesn’t sound quite like a definition of religion nor does it appease his detractors. “Forrest is a great promoter,” says Gerald Peters, whose Santa Fe gallery competes with Fenn’s. “He has a marvelous sense of the moment.” Los Angeles gallery owner Steve Rose, who frequently does business with Fenn admires his style but understands why others don’t “For one thing he’s a better merchandiser than most of us,” Rose says “and he makes a lot of money. Most of the dealers who have grumbled about him are small ones who are jealous of his success.”

    Fenn makes no claims to the finer things in the art business. A high school graduate who put in 20 years as a U.S. Air Force fighter pilot, he arrived in Santa Fe 14 years ago with a shoe shine, a smile and $20,000 in savings, and set himself up in a business he knew little about. “I never studied art, didn’t own a painting and didn’t know anybody who did,” he says. But the pilot, who says he survived 328 combat missions in Vietnam, is adept at landing on his feet. “It doesn’t matter who you are,” he argues, “it only matters who they think you are. It’s true in Hollywood, in politics and it’s true with a painting.”

    Following that principle, Fenn tucked his showrooms off Santa Fe’s main strip and enclosed them behind 11-foot-high adobe-and-stone walls. In addition to the pond, the elegant grounds feature a garden, exotic birds and three guest houses. One of them, attached to the gallery, is stocked with volumes of books, fine wines and $1 million in art. When the rich visit Santa Fe, Fenn scoops them up at the airport in his limo and lodges them free of charge in one of the houses. Jackie Onassis, former President Ford and Cher are among those who have been pampered with catered meals, a Jacuzzi, steam room and a masseuse. Many, notably Steve Martin, have also bought art.

    One of Fenn’s repeat customers is Robert Redford, who collects Eric Sloane oils priced up to $15,000. Sam Shepard and Jessica Lange picked up Western art, and Steven Spielberg carted away a Charles Russell bronze. Ethel Kennedy bought an antique Chinese incense burner and raved about it. “One day,” says Fenn, “Andy Williams came in and said, ‘Ethel Kennedy said I just had to come in.’ There were about 50 people in the room and all their eyes went zonk.”

    Suzanne Somers met Fenn during a search for a Georgia O’Keeffe painting. “He is an incredible host,” says Somers. “To lie in the bed in that guest house and see the most incredible library and be surrounded by fabulous art and pueblo pottery was a feast.” Guests aren’t obligated to buy, but as one art colleague puts it, “Forrest doesn’t miss a chance.” Nearly everything—furnishings, artwork, baskets—carries a price tag. At the end of her stay, Somers had bought several Navajo rugs and some Indian jewelry. As for starting her O’Keeffe collection, she says, “When I do decide to buy one, it will be from Forrest.”

    Fenn encourages gallery browsing with signs that read: “Please touch. We are responsible.” Customers can handle any of 2,000 Indian bowls, moccasins and arrowheads. Big spenders might be drawn to a $375,000 painting that Corot signed on his deathbed, or a $350,000 Remington bronze. Fenn’s collection of fine fakes (owned in partnership with Texas’ ex-Gov. John Connally) is the work of the late master forger Elmyr de Hory, who fooled many an expert in his time. But why sell phonies? Says Fenn: “If you love it less when you see the signature who now is the fake?” That challenge has shamed buyers into taking 26 De Horys so far, at $9,500 a shot.

    Fenn claims an inventory worth $20 million and presides over it all with a staff of 16 and a seemingly cavalier attitude. “Does the guy at One Hour Martinizing love dirty clothes?” Fenn asks, knowing the answer full well. “Does the guy selling used cars like clunkers? Art is a business, and what I love is the business. I’m not particularly into art.”

    Fenn, who was born 55 years ago in Temple, Texas, has a bottom-line style that was shaped in the Air Force, where he won 25 decorations, including the Silver Star. Stationed in Lubbock, Texas at the end of his stint, he began buying sculptures from struggling artists and casting limited-edition bronzes of them. Some of the bronzes he sold for cash, but the rest he traded for Indian artifacts. When he was ready for retirement, the hobby provided an inventory for opening an art gallery, which seemed the logical next step.

    The business allows Fenn and his wife of 32 years, Peggy, to live comfortably in a spectacularly appointed apartment over the gallery. Fenn collects rare and historical books and takes an occasional day off for a desert walk, fishing or piloting his single-engine airplane. “When I was a kid,” he says, by way of explaining his passion, “I played Monopoly. I have always thought of myself as one who plays Monopoly. That’s what I’m doing here.”

  71. Hi Michael D.
    Thank you so much for sharing. I Love reading everything forrest fenn!
    I heard you too are from Idaho….I wonder where. If that’s right?

  72. Steve Martin walks into the gallery, in full character, pants pulled up, chest puffed out. “Mr. Fenn I’d like to sell you a pair of glasses that wont’ slip, so you just tell me what it’s going to take”. Forrest says, “No problem, just as long as you buy my last 9 elmer de hory’s at the going rate, and I’ll even have them framed for you.” Steve “OK DEAL”
    Forrest later sells the ‘money making glasses’ to a proud new owner, for a good profit, by telling him how they helped him earn over $27,000 in less than a minute (it was true).The up and coming Red Skeleton then wore his new glasses while practicing his skits in front of the mirror…..

  73. I know what they are talking about, but I can’t find it. I believe you did say something to that effect like you thought many people have figured out the first clues…it was something you said in the last week or two. You were saying that you felt you know for sure the first couple clues and planned on spending next summer looking to find the rest of the clues. I don’t think you said you KNEW hundreds have.

  74. Sure,as soon as I get done making it. I’m working on one now but had to get more tape.

  75. Dal,
    I think you are being way to hard on yourself! Just because you caused a whole class of 5th graders to fall back three years in math skills, is no reason to beat yourself up. Sitting in the corner was enough. Baaahahaha 🙂

  76. I believe many of the searchers have been in the area that the first two clues point too. How many are aware? Next to Zero is my guess. Don’t dare to say more, FF wants you to crack them yourself. The thing is its a non clue. FF is very sharp and disciplined, he is old school. He likes fun but not at the risk of compromising the chase. ff said “the person who finds the chest will have earned it” good luck:)

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