The Poem…Part Five


Please click on the comment balloon below to add to the discussion of the poem…

Here is Forrest reading his poem, The Thrill of the Chase. If you have not memorized the poem…don’t be concerned…neither has Forrest apparently…


560 thoughts on “The Poem…Part Five

    • yoo…hoo…Germanguy, Windsurfer,
      Im back to slide in yelling “holy $#*+ what a ride!” with whomever finds Fenn’s gold. If you’re lurking, why don’t you come back as well?
      (Windsurfer, you can ski and play this game from the lift).

  1. Could we actually talk about the poem here? 🙂

    For example: many have said, secondhand, that FF has said to start ‘at the beginning’ and ‘don’t mess with my poem’
    A) So, there are those that think this means start at the word “begin” at the top of stanza 2 and omit /rearrange nothing (…yet this means you’ve omitted /skipped the first stanza; wouldn’t that count as messing with?)
    B. There are seemingly some who think this means start at line 1, and that the clues are literal/straightforward once/if you can deduce the trailhead. Some think the trailhead is either carefully imbedded in the poem or in the book.
    C) There are even those that think that a poker player and son-of-a-school-principal like FF might be tricky and mean find the ‘beginning’ in his words: that the question posed in the first half of stanza 5 is the proper and grammatical ‘beginning’. (And the rest is the answer )(but if this is true, why write the poem out of order?)

    I prescribe to the ‘the poem is all you need’ camp, (figuring that FF wrote it knowing the grim reaper could stalk him anytime, and he’d (FF)still want his fun to play out whether he was around to enjoy it or not) . . and I haven’t fully commited to any of the above qualifiers. 🙂

    So d) the poem itself -as a whole- IS the beginning. Beginning of the chase, the thrill, the fun, (the hairpullingout, the insomnia), the friendships, the experience… Etc. The chest is the end.

    • He always has said “Don’t mess with the Poem!” Is it not cool though that we should all just read and read the poem again and again and it will probably be found by a redneck from Texas with many? children by the use of a pickup truck and shovels?? Word play is key and His Father is very important in The Thrill of the Chase!! Does he mean His Biological Father, his Spiritual Father, Jesus, Another kind of Father,I am working on that angle along with a”Whole lot of Angles!” Having found some new clues myself I just got the “Too Far To Walk,” book last week have devoured reading it and saw some new things and unusual things in it. As all are saying now, putting them together and finding a tract and a trail are all signs the end is near. ALL CHASERS AND FRIENDS, we are waiting for spring and here in Mississippi, it is just no where in sight. We all have hybernated lately and concocted some wild leads and spots laid up this winter so lets hit those clues, locations and trails and play the game with more vigor and Treasure Hunting Skills than we did last year and God Bless us All and Keep Us Safe. Ready, Locked and Loaded for more research, hunting, mind deciphering ,game playing and figuring out where that DARN LockBox is. ARE YA’LL READY….. Play nice boys and girls one of us is going to find it and soon!!!

        • I am from Crystal Springs and live in Brookhaven now but am still trying to be active in the chase. Dal and Jennifer and Stephanie and Wolf and DesertPhil and many many others all are so close it makes my heart skip a beat!! Hey fellow, it is fun and a wild ride far from MS. I just want to figure it out and see what real clues Mr. F used and what the real home of brown is and where the actual the canyon down goes. The poem follows me everywhere I go even in Ms on road signs other books I read and everday life. I find myself interpreting the clues differently every single day and am looking forward to going back to NM soon. I will not give up until the poem is solved and I hopefully or some other Chaser, has found and or put this whole Treasure Hunt to Rest…… Ms. Girl JMW Still in the real Chase want me some lockbox gold Arg I would love to be a pirate…. Where is me Chest and Sword!!!

          • Judy, Judy, Judy-
            I live 900 miles from southern Montana and 1,550 miles from northern New Mexico…
            Not close enough for you to feel jealous…
            Stephanie lives near Chicago…I suspect she would disagree with you about the convenience of her location to the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe.
            You live (according to Google) a mere 1,100 miles from being in the mountains north of Santa Fe…

            There are people on this blog from much further east than you. There are people from Ontario and British Columbia and one guy from London that has come out here twice to search.
            Another guy from New Hampshire got rides by listing on Craigslist…
            A fellow from South Carolina who doesn’t walk well and can’t drive took a bus to Santa Fe and contacted a searcher who lives there and they went out looking in the Abiquiu area…

            Many people from a distance away have contacted others on the blog who were willing to search their location for them…
            Getting there is part of the adventure for many…
            Can’t win the lotto if you don’t have a ticket…

          • Yo Judy, I live in Vermont and have been on a number of trips west to search for the CHEST. I would not trade any of it, or even begin to gripe about it. Each trip has been an adventure to remember!…My first trip was an adrenaline induced mad dash in the car with my wife. What a gal ! That was a 4600 mile round trip in 5 days w/ a search or two thrown in… HA !

          • Judy- I live in Mccomb. My son and I are going to retrieve the chest next month, God willing. My daughter lives in Brookhaven, and my other son lives in Hazzlehurst. I made two trips last year, but I think i’m in a tight focus this year. if u want to talk, call my daughter, at 341-9345, and she can give you my number. good luck, emmett

    • Nice Map…I too am in the book and poem camp. I never really believed that “Begin it..” was where you are supposed to begin. Especially after some of his recent comments at bookstores saying every word in the poem is deliberate. Nothing is a “throwaway” stanza or line in my opinion.

      I also feel that some have maybe decided or have heard ff say to follow the clues in order, I haven’t heard this from ff, even if so, it is not in the book. In the book and his blog it only says to follow the clues “precisely.” To me that does not mean they have to go in order from the top of the poem to the bottom. It seems to me you could pull the 9 clues out, then decide the order in which they should be precisely followed. You are not messing with the poem, just ordering the clues…when you figure them out – the hard part.

    • Map-
      Novel idea, to talk about the poem.

      A) The poem begins with “As I have…”, at least as it is printed (see item C below). And Forrest has stressed the importance of the “Begin…wwwh” line, and said you need to know where warm waters halt. But he has also said to read the poem carefully, “every line”. I believe that Forrest views the poem as having 9 essential clues, as he’s stressed many times, but there are clues to the clues within. And why on earth would you skip any content of the poem? Yes, skipping a stanza would be messing with it. We each need to interpret what Forrest means by “don’t mess with my poem”- keep everything in order, don’t change words, don’t combine words, don’t use words within words, don’t anagram it…? It’s up to you. I think he’s aware of how people have understandably contorted the poem in blenders and meat grinders on the blogs searching for answers, and he may be giving a nudge.

      B) I am cautious of “deduce the trailhead”. There are many things to begin- begin the poem, begin IT (something), begin solving the clues (physical trailhead or otherwise). But I believe that the “contiguous” clue solutions will lead directly to the treasure, and that Forrest has given enough support to let you know if your solutions are correct.

      C) Yes, stanza 5 reads like the first, introductory stanza. I analyzed this in great detail in my 516234 post on Chasechat. With a straightforward reading of tense, person speaking, and meaning, the poem reads like the hidden or intended order of the stanzas is 516234, with the poem ending with “Just take the chest and go in peace.” But it’s a poem, not technical writing, and he can jump around like a frog if he wishes.

      “The poem is all you need” camp? I’m in that camp too, but I sneak out of camp and look at everything else under the sun and try to separate the distractions from the valuables.

      D) Yeah. But the chest is also at the beginning…


    • Mapsmith

      I can understand your frustration with the poem’s format.

      As where you should start, is where he tells you in the poem to ‘begin it’. The first stanza is nothing more then a preface. However, it does tell you what he did and why. Other then that, it is of no further value. If he tells us to start at the beginning, he gives us the starting point. From there on out, we must follow his instructions, which led me to realize that the following lines must be a step by step list of instructions. From what I uncovered, that is what it did for me. Others may see it differently, but the results will be going off in too many directions.

      As we all should know by now, the poem has led people to so many places where the chest wasn’t, that there is only one place where the chest is. Following his initial comments, I found that it does work out if we stop looking for things “to fit” and let the poem lead us.

      In the end, everyone must and I do mean ‘must’ have a good understanding of Fenn. The poem is a compendium of his life as I have found.

      This is but one opinion, my own.

    • @Map……any of your scenarios certainly could be correct. But Fenn says the clues are in consecutive order in an interview with Loren Mills. It’s at 27:11

      He has said several time to start at the beginning. Here’s the page where Dal talks about that:

      And he has said, “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search.” f

      So I suppose it boils down to if one believes what he has said or is all of that just a smoke screen and marketing propaganda.

        • Jack-
          Forrest has said both. While conversing with folks who wanted to skip the first clues in the poem and simply start out with “the home of Brown”, he told them you will never find it that way and you have to start at the beginning and then added as a question “Where do warm waters halt?”.

      • Actually I stand corrected – it does start with the 1st line! And today’s humans are not traditional in thinking like those born in the 30’s. Share and share alike.

  2. TG just Crossed Map off the “Uber cool List”…lol
    Ok people…lets get to it. Spring is around the corner!

  3. Could “the blaze” be Blaze Mountain in Montana? And maybe, once you come to a certain clearing allowing you to “see the blaze”, is where it is. There are caves all over Montana and some even near Madison County.

        • I live in Montana and hope it’s here in my backyard because that makes it within my reach. There could be a clue in stanza 1, line 1 and 2. As I have gone alone in the Treasure State, and with my treasures bold.

          • Hey Jim-
            I also live in Montana. Right now I’m watching bison poop all over my yard. I’m on the north border near Gardiner. I’ve some ideas once it warms up. They openned the roads for biking today into the park, but it snowed last night. You headed this way this spring/summer?

  4. 29 years ago I found a cave in Yellowstone…. got married there. My wife and I were working in the park that summer. So yes, there are lots of caves around Yellowstone. “Our” cave was on the face of a cliff overlooking the Yellowstone River. Inside, I left some standing stones in a circle along with a copy of our wedding vows.
    My wife has been out of town but comes home today, and I am really excited to see her – I even changed the sheets! Yellowstone is a magical place. Where better to hide a treasure?

  5. I think the whole poem is important. Some lines describe things and others are clues and you need the whole to solve the poem. I too am in the camp of the only thing you need is the poem and maybe the book.

  6. I agree 100% The poem is the answer. Omega’s, double omegas,algarythms, number of a’s,blazing phoenix?? I’m going to look for an upside down flying owl chanting secret fenn language, in the voice of yogi bear, while it’s eating yellow jelly beans…Or I think I’ll just stick to the poem, makes more sense to me.

  7. Just watched Adam C.’s youtube video…his secret canyon is not so secret. It is the northern side of Secret Valley in YS. The “F” on top of the mountain to the NW is a scrub of trees shadowed in and does look like an “F”, if you were in a plane 1000+ feet up! So, I am keeping my chase money under my bed for this spring. My spot is WAY better than his. Everyone knows F has used “secret/secreted” a lot, but I doubt he means Secret Valley, it’s way to obvious.
    Also, he starts his campaign with…Ojo Caliente hot spring then jumps WAY over to Secret Valley. F said searchers have found the first two clues and went right past the other seven not realizing the importance of where they were at, indicating all the clues are pretty close to each other.
    Ok, I said my peace, can’t blame the guy for trying…
    Oh, if you want to invest in $5000, I know of a great island off of Washington I can sell you! ¥Peace¥

      • I remember seeing the Turtles, Monkeys and Gary Puckett and the Union Gap there years ago – OMG biker chicks could not keep their tops on. I’m sure pants were flying later, but I did not stay for that show!

        • Well Pam, Pink Floyd is not my kind of music.

          I’m 61, a gentleman and a scholar, my kindness and good manners are only exceeded by my good looks……About 85% of that is true. 😉

          I was able to wrangle some great seats and surprise my wife with a trip to see the Eagles (her most favorite group) at the Forum in LA a couple months ago. Does that count?

          Probably not……….I guess I really am a Goofy_Old_Guy.

  8. Actually, Pink Floyd was founded in 1965, so if you were say, 12 yrs old that would put you at 61 or 62….not old by any means…but no spring chick either…of course, 40-50 is a more likely age bracket for a Pink Floyd fan…but I truly believe some of their music is timeless. This concert will be my first stop on my 23rd trip to search for the chest….I’m not leaving CO this time….hmmmm…

  9. Mike I had to look it up! When you said you were headed to Red Rocks on the 12th to see Floyd, I got excited. Was Gilmore going to play with Waters? Last year was their fortieth anniversary! Had they got back together?
    I have seen them twice, and I only missed them in Berlin on the Wall Tour by a week. I was fortunate enough to see the whole band in 78 on the Animals Tour, and again 2nd row in 1987, but NO Roger Waters. In fact I stood up on my seat which made a few people angry! I shrugged my shoulders at Gilmore as if to say “tell them to stand up,” but instead he looked confused and shrugged his shoulders back as if to say “your on your own.” After that, the guy playing sax stayed right in front of our group and had fun with us most the night. It was most awesome.
    Nevertheless, I saw this was a really good tribute band. Still no Waters. Then, I thought maybe this is a clue? Waters Halt!!! Floyd? Spanish American War Hero? I’m just say n’,… but if I had an opportunity to go to Red Rocks… I’d see James Taylor, Or John Prine and Emmy Lou Harris.

    I’m currently writing a story about seeing Janice Joplin at Rivenia Park in 1969. Maybe I’ll post it later! I’m a terrible writer, but I’m trying to learn!
    Mark H.

  10. @ Opps
    Old…….Dan Fogelberg’s dad, the guy with the “thundering, velvet hand” was my Mom’s junior high “Leader of the Band”. I’ll have to post a copy of the photo when I get one.

  11. Ive thought off and on about the poem for about a year now–hope to do some looking soon. What troubles me most though is the line “put in below the home of Brown” Given that ‘put in’ immediately follows “too far to walk” and that there are a limited number of ways to interpret not-walking, and that home of Brown quite likely refers to trout, and the poem is loaded with water language,
    ‘Put in’ is a nautical term. Others have noted this, but no one has stated definitively that a boat must be used. I find it hard to avoid that conclusion, geven the consistent water terminology, and that using a boat means not walking; you reach the ‘put in’ point, then must use a boat. Using a wooden boat would also be consistent with being ‘in the wood’. This sucks cause I dont have ready access to a canoe. But How else do you interpret ‘put in’ given the overall consistency of the river/creek language, and the fact that ‘not walking’ means either crawling (possible, but not consistent) swimming (nope) mechanized travel (not consistent) etc–the boat seems the logical conclusion. Can anyone convince me otherwise, cause i dont want to paddle (of course, paddling aint necessary ‘down the canyon’ since you are moving with the current 😉

    • Stan, you are right, there is a lot of water in the poem. I’m not for sure if I understand your question. I think you are saying you are in a boat from the beginning.

      If that is what you are saying then “put in” is also a term used to leave the water. …… Nautical: To enter a port or harbor, to leave the river.

      So using your train of thought, put in below the home of Brown, would mean leaving the river down stream of the home of Brown.

      Is that what you mean?

    • Stan: While I agree there’s lots of water related words, I Gotta agree with goofy: there’s NO definitive ‘put in’. In scouts we’d say put in for both putting the canoes in -and- for beaching /making camp on shore. The ‘no paddle up your creek’ definitely makes me lean towards thinking there isn’t any kind of boat needed —but while I believe that, I also think that the ‘cold’ in stanza 6 refers to being cold from either water or altitude.
      As far as too far to walk, I still say this: imagine the gear FF had, 42lbs of chest/gold, possibly shovels(or not), likely a flashlight & a sandwich, and possibly a bike ( 🙂 ) — and the “vehicle” that makes the most sense by far is the 4-legged 1-horsepower kind. 42lbs in saddlebags wouldn’t even be noticed. And IMO , FF would enjoy the wee joke of Silver delivering the Gold. 😉
      Also –that plan is one he could’ve used in his original intention of taking the chest out there and leaving his bones with it: That ‘vehicle’ would auto-pilot itself away from the secret place, possibly back home. A parked car or boat would leave an EXTREMELY clear clue (if not full-on trail) to where the chest would be. Would be too much of a giveaway and ruin his fun.
      Of course, we might be just making it way too complicated and too far to walk just means its vertically up a ladder or down in a well. K.I.S.S. might just apply 🙂

      • Don’t see F pulling a horse trailer or riding at 80. Logically, he took his vehicle, parked it in tourist parking, took off his bike and rode to destination. Dividing the treasure may have been what fit in the basket, not for the weight. He replied in one of his emails that he could ride his bike to the spot and throw it in high water. (quoting in general). He could have walked it in, knowing the direct route, leaving us to take the poem route.
        If he rented a horse from a dude ranch, it would soon be missed. Same as an unattended vehicle being found. They may find the vehicle but he is so hidden, no one would find his body.
        The how is intriging, guess we will find out when the treasure is found! ¥Peace¥

      • Map-
        Along that line of thinking . . . it seems to me that the spot is accessible by car and foot, but perhaps also by water. Maybe ff’s original dying idea was to put in with a canoe fairly far upstream where he would leave his car, float/paddle down a few miles to a side canyon. Exit the boat and let it drift on downstream/river while he walked up the side canyon (no paddle up your creek) to his final destination. That way, people would find his car and canoe many miles apart.
        But when his body decided to keep going, he had to alter his route and drive closer to the side canyon.
        Just a thought.

  12. Wading is technically walking, but perhaps ff splits hairs here…I think climbing, wading, crawling, floating, boating, driving, etc …are all potential answers to too far to walk.

  13. I’ve used a boat on my solves, but I never used a boat to get to the blaze. I believe he took the boat out of the water and I believe the poem tells you that. I think you can get to the blaze by other means.

  14. Thanks for the responses, guys! I hope you are right!

    Goofy–no, In this interpretation I think you have to first get to that point (below the home of brown) before getting in the boat–for example, if the treasure were in a cave or alcove on the banks of a steep canyon (like the R Grande, but there are others) that can only be accessed by water.

    Mapsmith–that’s an interesting thought (the four-legged one) but the poem is written for OUR benefit, not his; we aren’t carrying the chest in.

    I still don’t see a good alternative explanation to ‘put in’ You could ‘put in’ the treasure, but clearly the subject in this line is YOU, since it parallels the first line’s subject (YOU begin where the waters halt etc).
    Ill consider the possibility that it could mean exiting the water. Thanks again, folks.

  15. I think Stephanie is right! We take the water route, for our families to see the outdoors, and he took the easy road route.

    • I don’t believe we necassarily have to get in the water until the end but I do believe that the poem describes a water path. You start at water, follow water, turn and follow water some more and you end at water. The subtle hints in the book may be confusing, in my opinion, if you are using them to create a path to the treasure. Where Mr. Fenn may have been describing a way or ways to get there by road, this may differ from the path created in the poem. Follow the water path, it will take you right to it. Well, that’s what I’m doing anyway.

  16. North of Santa Fe
    A Searcher’s Tale

    Well, I too have gone alone in there,
    Searching for Fenn’s famous treasure trove.
    His secret is no longer kept, I swear,
    I think I’ve solved his poem of gold.

    The next two stanzas have come to a halt,
    But, it will be finished by the next round,
    Not much longer, still a time to balk,
    The gold will be found not far from Town.

    Halt . . . From warm waters halt to canyon down,
    I began it again from below the curved roads,
    No paddle to row, but a shovel to cart around.
    The rain was high, I was carrying heavy loads.

    Halt . . . The creek went on, there was no end,
    It simply opened up to a wonderful sight.
    I saw the blaze; I was fully amazed . . . amen.
    The way was no place for the meek, he’s right.

    I thought I was wise, I found the right place,
    Rocks, trees, brush, water, hints and more,
    Regrettably, it was not the end of my chase;
    Look quickly down would be the ultimate chore.

    Hanging around for that elusive marvel gaze,
    It’s here somewhere, Fenn’s rainbow to cease,
    I’ll never give up searching nearby this blaze.
    The thrill is for our pleasure so we can find peace.

    So I heard his call and I listened real good.
    My effort is worth finding the cold bronze chest.
    I will be brave when I get into the wood,
    Because the wood is the lining inside the old chest.

    And inside the chest lays a fortune in gold,
    For me to claim when I am so bold.
    Then he’ll give me gold title, so I can rest,
    But, he leaves me to fight the big bad I.R.S.


    Think about it.

  17. Why the treasure being “somewhere north of Santa Fe” is a clue? Is Mr. Fenn trying to tell us that the treasure is immdiately north? And that would be, in my opinion, somewhere close to Taos. I do not see any other explanation. And besides if you follow the trail into Manby Hot Springs you will see it is very rocky. I do not know if this is what he means.

  18. First line thought. As I have gone alone “in there”
    what does this mean? in a cave? in a mine? where is “in there”?

    Second stanza thought. Could it be that if you begin WWWH, one is to then go down the canyon, but not on foot (TFTW), but rather drive or ride in order to then put in at a point on a new intersecting creek. This creek is what the canyon down led to and is the “put in” point which is also below the home of Brown (perhaps below as in South of the actual HOB on a map).

    Third stanza. From there no place for the meek. (How about a class 3/4 river ride)
    No paddle up your creek. (Does not preclude using a paddle “down” the creek)
    The End is ever drawing nigh. How about the raft ride down the river takes you to a triple bend in the river in the shape of an Omega (i.e. The End)
    Lots of roads follow river rafting creeks/rivers. Fenn would not to take the raft trip, but could take the road downstream to the Omega bend in the creek.

    I have found a place that matches this view of the poem up until this point and Brown refers to an actual person/pioneer. As for matching the rest of the poem…not sure yet, but I found an interesting feature for “heavy loads and water high”.

  19. How about a hydroelectric plant for “heavy loads and water high?” High amperage power might be called a “heavy load” by those familiar with electricity.

  20. I think we are overthinking it. Would a kid think that “where warm waters halt” is the rio grande? I think not. How about “where warm waters halt” is where warm water is salt, or salty tears, on my war for me chapter page 82.

    • This is the kind of out-of-the-box thinking that will solve the poem. WWWH = “Where warm water’s salt.” I love it. Thanks RC. Ideas like this could change things big time! Note: This is what this page is all about.

  21. RC—ok, ok, I’ll tell, its “The pool of tears” ! Ta-dah! Poem solved…NOT! Lol, sorry, slap happy!
    But it does fit what you were saying! ¥Peace¥

    • I thought the Alice in Wonderland had to do with crossing a river, but I also though it could be about tea…and I think tea could mean the letter t or T some how. I’ve thought it could stand for Taos….

    • Donna* I disagree with you. “Where warm waters halt” could be where warm water’s salt. Arthur Rochford Manby had the hot springs analyzed and he discovered that the springs had sodium, or salt. Now, a kid would not know that. A kid does not have a lot of knowledge about life, so he or she, would not know that. Now, this is just an idea and nobody has to agree with it. I am just as right, or wrong as anybody out there. For me “Where warm waters halt” is a local area, and not a general area.

  22. Here is a very important WHAT IF….

    We know the book is only sold in one store in Santa Fe, NM.

    What if the exposure of The Thrill of the Chase never left the state of NM and Forrest’s network of people??? No TV time, no blogs, no popularity. Just a hand full of locals that bought the book and found the chase interesting.

    Now the question is…if you were one of those local would you really be spending your time in Wyoming? Colorado? If you just had the poem and the book what you have to go on for WWWH is “in the mountains north of Santa Fe”

    • Dj…he DID originally say in the mts n of SF. Then changed it later to the Rockies. Was thinking the same thing…

      • Djjmciv…on our recent trip, I found five copies of TOTC for sale in a souvenir shop just outside Little Big Horn. Thought that was interesting.

  23. So here’s how Forrest would know if the treasure is found:
    Two trips to hide the treasure. First trip he carries the treasure chest. Second trip he carries the treasure itself, which he hides at a location near the chest.
    Inside the chest he has left two notes. One note has a phone number to Forrest who will give you directions to the buried treasure near the chest only if you call him with a secret password — say, “Afghanistan- Banana Stand”
    But, what if Forrest has died?
    There is a second note in the chest.
    On this note, the final directions to the buried treasure are written [say “100 paces Northwest of the chest under the rabbit shaped rock”]
    These hidden written directions would be near the now living Forrest – at a spot visable to him daily in Santa Fe. For example the second note inside the treasure chest might say, “look under the blue bowling ball in front of the bookstore in Santa Fe for final directions to the treasure – sorry for the bother, but I’m dead now, so I’m not taking phone calls.”
    If the finder wanted to take the treasure without telling Forrest, they could not, without either calling Forrest or disturbing his spot in Santa Fe.
    Forrest has covered both present [Forrest alive] and future [Forrest dead]… There is no way the treasure chest finder could collect the treasure without doing one of two pathways found on two notes inside the chest.

    • I think you are missing the big picture here. Whether Forrest lives or not, he will have created a legacy to leave behind. Even if the chest were found and the finder never revealed that fact, the legion would survive the 100’s and 1000’s of years he hopes it will. He is shrewd, and knows that if the chest is found, there is no need for the finder to broadcast that fact. Ask yourself, would you? Heck, you could take a trip across the country and cash out less than $10K at every gold buyer establishment you come across and liquidate it all (with the exception of the jewels, those are for the jewelers or possibly not). Return home, buy a safe and store the cash. No one will be the wiser. The only problem you might encounter, is spending it. Uncle Sam has his ways of detecting things.

      My advise is to pay the taxes and enjoy what’s left. Oh, and be decent enough to let people know the chest has been found.

      • Germanguy–
        Yes, I agree with you on spending the treasure. Best avoid the IRS.
        Forrest has said he “knows” the treasure hasn’t been found. How could he know that? Most finders would not advertise that fact, but Forrest somehow still “knows.”
        I present a low tech solution to this question…. “How does Forrest know the treasure has or hasn’t been found?” I know an electronic signal device, GPS tracker, web cam, telescope from his house, have all been proposed.
        I think the two notes inside the treasure chest is a simpler solution. The treasure could still last 1000’s of years wherever it is hidden. The notes inside the chest won’t change that. In fact, I’ll bet Forrest has left some final clues in an envelope to be opened “in the event of my death.”
        Finally – the “two note solution” to the question of “How Forrest Knows” does not help you find the treasure. But I think it’s a simple answer to that question.

      • Spending will be no problem at all.

        Ever heard of Cash for Gold?? A hand full of those will be corrupt enough to not have you fill out any paperwork if you sell for less than market value. A little less will be a lot cheaper than the at least 30% taxes will take out.

        Then with the cash you are looking at buy gas and groceries for a very long time. Fools will use it to buy a car. (I know this works before this is how pimps spend their cash)

        As far as legacy, if the treasure is found and never reported and people go on and on searching for it eventually the term “hoax” will be used over and over again.

      • If my suspicions are correct, FF knows it is still there because it would be difficult to remove it legally and thus certain people (other than the finder) would have to know to remove it legally. I am not saying it couldn’t be removed without anyone knowing, in fact I believe it could but then it most certainly would have to be kept a secret. If that is true, FF doesn’t know, the government doesn’t know and each and every searcher doesn’t know and they go on searching forever for something that doesn’t exist.

        Not to loose hope though. If my suspicions are again correct if a second person should subsequently solve the poem and find nothing, they would subsequently release that information and then everyone would know it had be found.

        Why would that be different from any other “come up empty handed story” you ask? Because the solution would be so obvious that when publicly released – every sane person would confidently conclude that was the correct solution. Then the very unfortunate debate of whether it had been found or whether it was a hoax would begin. Just to let you know, I would always believe there was a treasure – always.
        The Wolf

        • Wolf and Mapsmith – What if a person solved the poem, found the Blaze and discovered the spot, BUT……..didn’t take the chest. What do you think ff would say? Has it been found? Do we really need to see something to know it exists?

          • Frito – sorry? your logic escapes my understanding. The treasure chest exists … thats not really in question. And
            Following my note that ‘she claims to have seen it’ with ‘you don’t have to see something to know if it exists’ really doesn’t add up for me.
            Oh well. Chest exists. Christine on the other hand, has a better chance of being mistaken than the first finder of Fenn’s chest of gold.

        • Here we go again……..We should put up a psychological warning for chasers so they can recognize the symptoms of treasure dementia.

          They are so certain of their solution that can’t be wrong, so the chest has already been found when it’s not there……Fenn doesn’t know if it’s there or not. I really get a kick out the ones that claim Fenn never hid it at all, after they can’t find it. So Fenn is a fraud because they can’t be wrong……..

          “You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another dimension: a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind. You’re moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You’ve just crossed over into… the Fenn Zone.”

          WARNING!!!! Proceed at your own risk……You can check in but some will never check out.

          • We should welcome open and strange ideas cause knowone has found the chest under the old guide lines. I remember a time when you didn`t have a positive thing to say about the chase. Insane is repeating the samething and expecting a different outcome.

          • William, open and strange ideas are fine, and we have had many. But arrogant claims of solving the poem and berating everyone else’s ideas are not. And they always have an excuse why they can’t go get it.

            “Because the solution would be so obvious that when publicly released – every sane person would confidently conclude that was the correct solution.”

            So anyone that doesn’t believe his solve has to be insane. But he won’t go get it, or publish his perfect solve…….he just wants to sit around be superior to everyone else.

          • Hotel California ! The comments from a few are always entertaining to say the least. I have to admit that I too have been certain of my solve or solves. I guess that goes w/ the territory when hunting for treasure. I just have never come on here and tried to ram it down others throats… that just seems really odd to me. In fact, I have not shared any bits of my real solves here. It just makes no sense. That seems to be like playing poker and everyone at the table tipping their hands for all to see. Call me crazy, but that doesn’t seem to be how the game is played. I use this site that Dal has graciously provided to keep up w/ news from Forrest and to be supportive of the cause. I really am grateful for the gift Forrest has given us. I am past the fever stage and now I am really focusing on what I have learned and experienced along the way. My search partner and I spent a few days the last week of Feb. honing our exploring skills somewhere North of Santa Fe. Many side trips were made and many awesome sights will stay w/ us for a good long time. I am blessed to have this Chase and know that I have opened a new door of discovery for years to come. To those on here that seem obsessed or unable to grasp the reality of it all…. well, never mind… I will just say IMO and leave it at that. Stay safe out there and always have a back up plan…

          • I think we all have the right solution and everyone’s is wrong but maybe that’s a way to bounce ideas around. There is not much different in Ryan posting his solution as to others posting there’s. GOG you can post yours and you can think your a 100% right but everyone else wouldn’t thinks so. I think Forrest can post the correct solve and we all would dismiss it as well. As long as they are not claiming to find the chest or false statements I don’t see a thing wrong but this is Dals blog so he has the last say so anyways. Good luck all treasure hunters this year

          • William, if someone wants to post their solution I think that’s great. I enjoy reading the theories along with reading all the search stories folks have been on.

            That’s funny, and you are probably right, Fenn could post the correct solution and it would be dismissed. Wouldn’t that be a hoot……

            Everyone’s ideas are just as viable as anyone else’s until the chest is found. Claiming to know where the chest is without any proof is delusional not confident. I honestly don’t know (maybe just how I look at things) how anyone could be 100% sure without having the chest in hand.

          • Theoretically it’s easy to say that every solution is viable, but secretly we don’t really believe that do we. 🙂 Even if Forrest anonymously posted the correct solution we’d think HE was delusional! Many of us are so confident that we are the ones that have solved the clues and think we know where the treasure is that we think everyone else’s ideas are just plain wrong. But, I think you’re right Goofy, we’re ALL delusional, except for that one person who comes up with the chest – and I hope that one person is me! 🙂

          • I have been on a couple of searches and felt (in my mind) I was close in applying the clues correctly. I believe that if everyone revealed their solutions today it wouldn’t really cause any mad rush because we subconsciously make our solves bigger than there really are. That said, If FF posted the correct solution today, or someone who had it posted the correct solution, everybody but the delusional ones would acknowledge it as being the one.

        • Goofy,
          Mr. Fenn has worked on this Poem for 15 years and I think he has made a masterpiece and he will go down in history for making one of the best puzzles ever. Anyone who says anything to the contrary in my opinion is insulting him and his efforts.
          There will always be people who will deny the find, deny the true genius of the puzzle. Not everyone will see it that way – what would you call them?
          The Wolf

          • Wolf, I’m sure he/she that actually finds it will get all the accolades coming to them.

            You apparently don’t see how ridiculous you sound; for some reason you can’t go get it, and for some reason can’t divulge your solution to anyone that can…..Yet, you call anyone that doesn’t agree with your solution “insane”. You have joined the group of kooks that come out every year and say the same thing. Your solution is so good that it can’t possibly be wrong…… many times have we heard that.

            So go get it, or get a partner, or post your solution and we can judge for ourselves how good your solution is………

          • Goofy I had a lot of respect for you but that has changed. What you said was unfair and you twisted my words. I did not call anyone insane. Last post here – Goodbye

    • That’s interesting.
      But who would bother with note#1 if note 2 tells so much? (& Who pays a dead man’s phone bill?)
      Also, he’s said the chest has the gold, and all you need is the poem: no phone required.

      love “Afghanistan- Banana Stand” though. 🙂

      • Hi Mapsmith-
        Note number one will be used if Forrest is alive and you read him the secret password [Afghanisan Banana Stand] written next to his phone number.
        Note number two will have directions to his spot in Santa Fe where the final directions are hidden.
        You do not need to use note number two, or go to Santa Fe, if Forrest is alive, because you can use the phone number and secret password on note number one.
        Say the finder of the chest doesn’t want the living Forrest to know the chest is found. They go to Santa Fe, and get the final directions from the hidden spot described on note #2. Forrest will still see the spot has been disturbed.
        Also – if Forrest dies, he won’t be using a phone to give final directions. Note number 2 will direct the finder to Santa Fe, where the final clue is hiding.

      • Of course, the two note solution to the question, “How does Forrest know when the treausure is found?” depends on some major adjustments to common thought. 1] separating the chest from the treasure. 2] using more than the poem to find the gold – [but not the treasure chest]
        I think it unlikely the two note solution is correct for the above reasons, but I still wonder, how does Forrest know when the treasure is found?

        • If you knew were the chest was you would know why it has not been found. So solve the poem and stop working this thing in reverse….just saying….I think this is why ff does not give out much extra info. He wants there to be a thrill in the chase. 🙂

    • Wabi- check out the Odds n Ends string here ,If you havent peeked there already, —I’d like to think we came up with 90% of the options of ‘how FF might know’ there. 😉

      Could still surprise us yet though. That’s be a treat, actually. 🙂

      I think whatever the method, it’s
      A) not limited to him having to physically check anything — he’s been followed, so this would be a problem
      B). Dang clever.

      • Thanks goof-
        I guess that’s the end of that idea. No notes in the chest. Maybe Forrest has a friend watching the treasure. Maybe he doesn’t know if it has been found or not. Maybe there’s a fancy electronic device keeping tabs on it, but I doubt it.

  24. Hey folks. Please do not spend time wondering on how FF might know this or that, but spend your time finding the darn thing.

    Could “in the wood” refer to the “wood” bison (aka Cody) also known as the mountain bison and it is the bison’s “rear” end that one must enter to find the treasure? The bison’s end also coincides with the Omega I mentioned previously. I have found such a feature on Google Earth and it is in sequence with the poem directions from my earlier post.

    Interestingly, if you are “in the wood” (i.e. Cody) then in this case you are also a brave…as in an Indian brave…feathers and all. It all happens simultaneously with “take the chest and go in peace” perhaps.

    As exciting as this is, my prior searches that all matched the stories in the book and matched well with the poem were alll “unblemished by success” so I now have complete confidence that this is yet another dead end so I will not be searching this area any time soon.

    So today I bought 10 megamillions tickets as I feel my odds are greater.

  25. Once again I find myself fighting my desire to lash out at those less familiar, those who spew ignorance on this blog. But then I remember its all ignorance…until it is found…Still, some are way more ignorant than others…and so I must address this ignorance with humor.

    The tribal wisdom of the Plains Indians, passed on from generation to generation, says that:
    “When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.” …
    However, in government (and academia) and in this treasure hunt more advanced strategies are often employed, such as:

    1. Buying a stronger whip.
    2. Changing riders.
    3. Appointing a committee to study the horse.
    4. Arranging to visit other countries to see how other cultures ride dead horses.
    5. Lowering the standards so that dead horses can be included.
    6. Reclassifying the dead horse as living-impaired.
    7. Hiring outside contractors to ride the dead horse.
    8. Harnessing several dead horses together to increase speed.
    9. Providing additional funding and/or training to increase the dead horse’s performance.
    10. Doing a productivity study to see if lighter riders would improve the dead horse’s performance.
    11. Declaring that as the dead horse does not have to be fed, it is less costly, carries lower overhead and therefore contributes substantially more to the bottom line of the economy than do some other horses.
    12. Rewriting the expected performance requirements for all horses.
    And, of course…
    13. Promoting the dead horse to a supervisory position

    If you haven’t read this blog in its entirety, please refrain from posting your ideas about notes, hints in illustrations and postmarks, or “knowing” where it is.

    And remember that all important IMO when stating your opinion as fact. For example, IMO Where warm water salt has been beaten to death…not a new idea. IMO, FF “knows” the chest has not been found for ONE REASON ONLY, and pieces 9 hit it on the head…The hidey spot is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO good, he knows nobody has found it yet… For example, it is entombed in a cave he discovered in the 60’s that is so full of history that one would be compelled to admit discovery….or is under 300 feet of water in a reservoir…..or it is nearly impossible to retrieve without assistance, etc…
    Forrest has stated, “But you have to go and get it” in an almost I dare you to kind of a way, which leads me to believe although the chest is in a safe place…retrieving it may be extremely challenging. I don’t want to go into details…but research long strings and burial standing up…and you may begin to comprehend what I believe he did. That being said, I feel much more relaxed than I did when I started this rant!

    Michael Dill

    • Michael D….
      “if you haven’t read this blog in its entirety, please refrain from posting your ideas about notes, hints in illustrations and postmarks, or “knowing” where it is.”


    • Michael,

      With all due respect, if only those people who have followed every bit of this blog for the past year are allowed to post, you will find yourself talking to yourself.

      Other than Goofy and Stephanie and a few others there are not many that satisfy your requirement.

      I joined in about a year ago and have searched numerous sites in NM, CO, Wy, and WA, but I have been out of touch with the blog for about 6 months now so I suspect I have missed a good number of meaningful insights provided by others.

      My memory is also aging faster than my old bones so I do not mind revisiting theories. I am also at the point where I tell the same stories over and over without realizing it. It’s called getting old.

    • Please don’t dominate the rap, jack, if you’ve got nothing new to say.
      If you please, don’t back up the track this train’s got to run today.
      I spent a little time on the mountain, I spent a little time on the hill
      I heard someone say “Better run away”, others say “better stand still”.

      Now I don’t know, but I been told it’s hard to run with the weight of gold,
      Other hand I have heard it said, it’s just as hard with the weight of lead.

      Who can deny, who can deny, it’s not just a change in style?
      One step down and another begun and I wonder how many miles.
      I spent a little time on the mountain, I spent a little time on the hill
      Things went down we don’t understand, but I think in time we will.
      Now, I don’t know but I was told in the heat of the sun a man died of cold.
      Keep on coming or stand and wait, with the sun so dark and the hour so late.
      You can’t overlook the lack, jack, of any other highway to ride.
      It’s got no signs or dividing lines and very few rule to guide.

      I saw things getting out of hand, I guess they always will.
      Now I don’t know but I been told
      If the horse don’t pull you got to carry the load.
      I don’t know whose back’s that strong, maybe find out before too long.

      One way or another, one way or another,
      One way or another, this darkness got to give.

        • Right! A big fan of Steal your Face,
          Dal, so I don’t get in trouble I’ll stick with up Sh*ts Creek without a Paddle. (As in my case) Or Paddle down!

          I said I’d post a blurb. Here it is!

          From FYOW, let me know what you think!
          Growing up the music was always cranked up at our house. My mother and her friends enjoyed dancing and singing, usually making a merry time. Every now and then they would get tickets to see a rock concert, a sporting event or go to a parade. In 1969, a year before Janis Joplin’s death, my mother took me to see the legend at Rivenia Park in northern Illinois. I hated it!
          Rivenia was/is an open park amphitheater with both lawn and Reserved seating under a roof. In those days the chairs were the metal fold up types that suck! That’s where our seats were, under the roof, in the Reserved Seating, sitting on those hard fold-up chairs. Anytime after that, at any concert, I chose the lawn seats. I like the stars!
          Getting on with it, Janis Joplin had been a favorite at our house. I knew all the words to most of her songs. I think my mother’s favorite would have been “Me and My Bobbie MaGee,” mine is “Mercedes Benz.” It’s a song so simple; based on a question most people ask themselves and God every day.
          “Why won’t God buy me a Mercedes Benz?” I’m hoping for a Land Rover one day.
          The concert was crowded, packed with long haired hippie people, and everywhere the clouds and smell of pot burning was so thick it made my eyes water. For the entire show the crowd either stood or sat on the back of folding metal chairs making me feel tiny in a crowd of giants. I probably cried sitting down below peoples feet for what seemed like hours. I actually only saw Pearl (Janis Joplin) for a couple of minutes at best. But I will never forget it.
          I remember she was covered in feathers, larger than life. Her clothes shinning and smile glowed. The crowd was mesmerized. We were in the presence of greatness. Her Band the Holding Company had been set behind her almost as if in the shadows like they too knew she was the show. On the contrary, The Holding Company are phenomenal.
          Interesting note, as I wrote this today, Janis had been placed on a US stamp. “Ain’t that a kick in the a**.”

      • Nice to see a Steal Your Face here! And Some GD wisdom. Now that the big shows are all but a memory now…Forrest Fenn’s Treasure waits for me :>

        Lou Lee Belle> Chased by Brown Bears in Jellystone Park.

  26. Well, I’m glad to see we can still laugh around here! I just love stirring the pot on occasion. For anyone offended, please don’t be. Ignorant is not a horrible thing to be…as I am Blissfully aware… 😉 But luckily for most of us, very correctable. In my own unique way I was simply suggesting that researching this websites many resources would educate people about the current state of the hunt as it relates to various ideas, solves, etc…especially those that have been eliminated by Forrest himself. I firmly defend any persons right to post whatever they want to post….I just thought maybe they would prefer to be less ignorant when doing it. I love this blog!

  27. Hi everyone-
    Renelle has been pretty shaky for the past month or so…
    She was just able to send a thank-you note to everyone. I posted it on her “Searcher of the Month” page but wanted to post it here so more folks would see it…particularly those who so selflessly helped her out..

    Please accept my apologies for the tardiness of this response to the overwhelming gift of the raffle proceeds. I was away for awhile, and although I tried mightily to finish all of the thank-you cards and messages before I left, I didn’t quite succeed. My lack of a timely reply, however, in no way reflects the amount of my gratitude.

    A cancer patient has a lot of different weights on his or her shoulders. In my case, there is the constant out-of-state travel to medical appointments, the daily battle to continue some sort of normality through the fog and sickness caused by years of chemotherapy, and, of course, the reality of the never-ceasing medical bills.

    In a single, combined effort from all of you, one of my weights was lifted. To each and every person who participated in the raffle, please accept my heartfelt thanks for your contributions.

    Many of you promoted the raffle on your respective blogs, and I want to thank you all for your work on my behalf. It would be logical to assume that so many searchers looking for a single prize would be ultra-competitive with each other! That may be, but you are also community-minded and came together to pull off an event that was successful beyond anyone’s imagination. You all have my respect, my admiration, and most of all, my thanks.

    I’d also like to thank the Collected Works Bookstore and Dorothy Massey, who offered a lovely setting in which to host the raffle event. Suzanne Somers offered her support in the days leading up to the event, and I was humbled and grateful to receive her beautiful message. The lovely and gracious Ali McGraw was kind enough to participate in the drawing, and I was so very appreciative of her willingness to lend us her time. Thanks also to Toby Younis, who used his professional abilities to record the raffle event and stream it live. I watched it from my chemo chair and couldn’t contain my smiles.

    Every day for several weeks, Dal Neitzel donated so much time to the raffle process that I doubt he ever slept! Dal, I am so appreciate of all your hard work and selfless efforts.

    The incomparable Forrest Fenn turned his raffle idea into reality, as he has done with countless other ideas throughout his lifetime. This time, however, it was for my benefit, and for that, I give him my endless gratitude. Thank you, Forrest. You remain my hero.

    Thank you all so very much, and I hope to see you on the trail!

    • Renelle,
      You are the epitome of the old saying; “It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog.” You keep fighting girl. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

    • Renelle,
      You are strong and you are the face of this chase. Your spirit and strength give us all hope! Stay tough, fight hard and God bless!
      The Wolf

  28. Renelle, I think ALL of us would gladly do it again, if needed. I know I would. My prayers to you, get strong, girl, so you can enjoy the treasure when you find it! And Michael D…ignorance IS bliss! Muah! ¥Peace¥

  29. Best wishes to you Renelle, as you continue with your treatment. We were all happy to contribute to the raffle and glad to hear it helped lift one of the burdens off your shoulders. Hope to see you out searching this spring/summer!

  30. Hi Renelle. Battling cancer is not anyones idea of a good time, as I (and many others of our ilk) well know. Your tenacious fight is inspirational to many in countless respects. I’m positive of it. As a fellow “boots on the ground” searcher who happily participated in the raffle, I offer my continued support in any way that I can. Raffles are usually seen as one shot deals, but within this tribe of searchers I’m betting there are many who would participate again and again. So, reach out to us if needed. We fellow Fennologists are a dedicated and hearty lot. As for me, in Renelle’s case, I encourage all of us to, “Leave no searcher behind!” Be strong…Be well, Renelle. Best regards, TJ

  31. God Bless Renelle! Spring in coming and I hope it will be a good one. Thank You for all the Thank You’s! I got mine. You are a strong and beautiful woman! Praying for you!

  32. Hey Renelle-
    If you want a place to stay on your search adventures near Gardiner or Bozeman, let me know. My sister-in-law is a friend of yours in the Tetons, Denise Fisher, she knows how to reach us.

  33. Great theory !
    …with only one point I’d quibble, wolf; If the solution is so obvious, why hasn’t it been found ? (I think that a solution that everyone would agree is right -plus- 20,000-30,000 searchers for 4+ years can’t co-exist. 🙂 there’s bound to be several thousand skeptics at this point — habeas corpus is law because it’s sane/logical. Habeas TC I guess; IMO 😉 ) w/r/t:
    “Because the solution would be so obvious that when publicly released – every sane person would confidently conclude that was the correct solution”

    • An obvious solution does exsist to where all searchers would agree. The skeptics will most likely always be skeptics.

    • Mapsmith – They would know because it is like trying to solve a puzzle which has not been solved. Once the trick is revealed and the pieces come together, everyone slaps their heads and says ” oh what was I thinking”, “if I only new that one piece of info”, etc. IMHO there is a trick and it is clever, very clever.

    • Amy, if you really, truly believe that these things won’t help
      YOU, they very probably won’t. Good luck in your search,
      regardless of what tools or methods you employ therein.

  34. Where I’m digging in June you will have to be brave to dig at that spot so I’m doing it late at night 🙂

    • What is that a cut-n-paste from Ron White. I don’t think your stupid cause you can’t expand your mind to grasp that concept of what I was try to say now I believe that to be stupid. But thanks for the input.

    • I remember last year around this time; Dal shut the comments down due to a high level of negativity and just plain nonsense… I like this site and use it to learn more about Forrest. I do like tato salad w/ BBQ. In fact, I had big heap of it at the Cow Girl BBQ in Santa Fe not long ago!!! Oh, I bet Goofy probably can come up w/ a couple of creative ways to stymy stupid…

      • Just wait to see what will happen after Forrest’s passing.

        A storm indeed will be coming. Hundreds of people will claim they have the chest and Fenn won’t be around to prove them wrong.

        Hate to say it but this blogs heart beats the same as Forrest’s.

        • Well, Djjmciv who knows what would happen. But from what I see, Fenn will probably out last many here due to stress and blood pressure levels; add in car wrecks on the highway to search areas, flash floods looking in creeks and rivers, falling in the canyon down, hypothermia because it’s worth the cold, and tripping and falling on our ice axes he will probably out last most of us.

        • Many people have already made that claim, and Mr. Fenn has never provided any “tangible evidence” to the contrary. Anyone who doesn’t search there spot, is missing the whole point of the chase. imo

  35. It will be interesting to hear the latest news from the award event put on by True West magazine in Forrest’s honor. Might be some new fodder to kick around…

  36. Hey Dal, just wanted to stop in and say hi! Haven’t aggravated you in months. Been keeping up with the site though and you are doing an excellent job with it. Thank you (and Goofy) for making it what it is.

    Oh yeah, Stephanie has said you have seen the original poem, that Forest wrote, when his plan was to die next to the chest!!

    LOL, you been holding out on us big guy???? LOL (just kidding)

    • She gives zero proof other than ‘I have seen it”

      Odds are she got overexcited by getting the same FF email response you & I’ve gotten ‘you and I think alike -ff’
      And has only “looked at it ” on google earth 😀

      • Usually when Stephanie or Dal see these claims they write to Forrest for confirmation but Forrest is in Tucson for an award and probably cannot be reached. I guess we’ll have to wait and see if Forrest will let us know if someone actually has found it. My guess is that this is another hoax to get everyone upset that the hunt is over. Until I hear it from Forrest, I’ll have a hard time believing someone has found the treasure unless they provide us with some pretty convincing proof.

    • She may find that the chest is “mostly” empty by now.
      Treasure taken – chest left (picture of the “first” placed inside)

      But chances are, this is another crazy

      • Oh BTW, I have been making movies props for a long time and my plan is to make 15 identical “props” of Forrest’s chest and place funny things inside, then hide them WWWH.

        Why? Cause I’m a jokester and a……donkey.

        So far I’ve had to opportunity to make and hide 6 in NW and CO. Probably won’t reach my goal of 15, but I will be making more to place in WY.

        This woman’s comment makes me laugh uncontrollable because there is a good chance she found, based on her “hints”, one of my decoys.

        I suspect more will probably be found and people WILL take pictures of them. So don’t be deceived even with pictures that may surface in the future.

  37. Forrest has said the poem will lead strait to the chest and it will be waiting for the finder. I think ff is saying it takes a lot of patience to find the chest….. IT took years to plan this thing so hang in there the chase is just getting started.

  38. Hello all!! I just spent over 3 hrs skyping with germanguy about his solve. He spent that time detailing how he got to his spot…trust me, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to explain his interpretation without a sit down pow-wow or writing a book as long as TTOTC…That being said, I must admit that I truly believe he has cracked the poem, if not broke it wide open…We shall see in June! Lets just say he has the confidence and the imagination needed to get this thing done! And even if he is wrong, it is still the best solve I have ever heard, mine included. So just take his I DID IT attitude, as a confident man stating what he believes to be fact. He’s not arrogant, just positive!

    • Michael – …when you going to figure out that you have an inflammatory style / words? 😉

      S’ok. I dig it. But wise up, man. 🙂

    • Michael, a solve can only be proven GREAT (actually) by the results — finding the TC.

      Probably a word or two in that solve IS right. Thank you for
      showing that your enthusiasm is alive and well.

      Good luck to both of you. Please stay safe.

      The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

  39. In any of FF stories, or life events, he has never mentioned Colorado. So, how could it be his special place? Notice that people who claimed they found the treasure, like the one on Stephanie’s blog, are newbies? I won’t believe it till F says so! ¥Peace¥

  40. IMO, the locator of the treasure will be a humble person that will not feel it necessary to forecast the discovery BEFORE the actual event. Treasure fever can be avoided by taking regular doses of responsibility, followed by equal doses of reality…of course, I was glancing in the mirror as I wrote that just as a reminder to myself.

  41. They most likely just overreacted to Forrest’s email response. They think they have the correct solve, but have not actually gone to their search area yet. They are saying they have been there, and trying to persuade the rest of us that it is over, in fear that someone will get there before they do.
    I know once I had what I thought was a great solve, I wanted to get there as soon as possible before someone else did. This may be their attempt to slow the rest of us down because they are “in it to win it”. They fear someone else figuring out what they figured out and getting there first. I also highly doubt Forrest would simply say “you and I think alike” to someone who has sent them the correct solve.
    This is all just speculation on my part of course….
    I believe the Treasure is still there, and the last person to see it was Forrest Fenn.

    • Yup. It’s a classic (the overreaction).
      Though I don’t think Christine is trying to bluff us – my guess is she thinks looking at the spot online is the same as finding it/seeing it.
      Fwiw, On every local puzzlehunt I do in my town, there’s some pot-stirrer who posts online claiming to have it, or to have found it and left it, (or to know its ‘not really there’, or to claim it’s impossible or illegal; despite the multiple times puzzlehunts have been done, successfully, before). So grain of salt. This isn’t anything new.

      Whereas the real winners always find , whether they’re humble or braggers or anything else, that journalists will seek them out and get the real story. I.e. we might know the real finder when we see them on the Today show.

      • WHEN I find it, I WILL not go on the Today show! I will return his bracelet and do my philanthropy work with the treasure, cashing in $9,999 at a time to help Indian Reservation Education! Yep! I’m giving it back where it belongs! ¥Peace¥

  42. Did “that lady” say she found it in NM that’s not the same chest I FOUND. It was a little further north..HA HA HA 😉

  43. Hi Stephanie, long time… I worked on this angle for a bit. Following the double omega thought led me to the Greek alphabet. Tt is the sound for T and is spelled Tau. I read a few articles one in particular on the origin of the name Taos. The author attempted to prove there was no link between the greek tau and the name Taos. Not sure I agree, but who am I. In the end I couldn’t make anuthing of it, though I’m not known for my analytical mind.:)

  44. I think we should be using our energy in trying to solve the poem rather than going out there. My theory is that he, or she who finds the treasure chest will have decoded all the clues and gone straight to the treasure chest.

    • I totally agree RC but the problem is no one will work together. They all want to do it on their own. I have believed from the start it will take a group of people working together to solve and bouncing ideas off each other. Once solved you will be able to go straight to the chest. I believe it is in New Mexico or southern Colorado. Any one want to team up tgavis at

      • RC and tgavis, ff speaks to you and those like you. I believe that to achieve “the thrill” you have to get off the couch or the chair at your desk and get out into the world and search. I’ve had some fun researching, getting all excited, while researching, but the highest excitment has definitly been when I was out actively searching. Wow, have I had some thrills.One such thrill was a search in the Brown’s Gulch near Silver Plume, CO. Check it out some day. Maybe you’ll come across the treasure, or at least a warm slice of blueberry pie… nice memory. You may have some thrills while enjoying the comfort of being on your duff, but frankly, I think you need to haul that duff into the wild and let it experience that wonderful mountain air! Go, seek Fenn’s rainbow. It is real.

        • If I lived out there I would be out as often as possible. Since I live too far away and my work season is April through December I don’t have that opportunity. It will be a very costly trip when I do get to go. I know people who are making trips they can’t afford and need to be very confident in their solves before making those trips. You have to do the research first. I believe you have to be in the field to see the blaze but research will get you to the place to look for it. Glad you live close enough to get off your duff and search in person. Wish I was that blessed. Good Luck.

  45. Does anyone think the “who,what,when,where,how,and why”could be applied to the poem? Six stanza’s, one question per stanza. If so, how would you apply them?

  46. There are 24 lines in the poem. Say you pick 9 lines out as clues. That leaves you with 15 lines to deal with.
    Could these lines be part of the key that is needed to find WWWH? — or are these lines the equivilent of “junk DNA” = not needed in the biological code.
    If the whole poem is important, and only 9 clues are included, of what use are the rest of the words?
    I think they must contain a key. How else would one find a starting point …. or is he just messing with us?

    • Fwiw: There are so many successful/legit poem-based puzzle hunts out there that I personally choose not to worry about this.
      ( ie
      It’s always possible, even without a starting point or key, to home- in on a precise location for even the smallest hidden item. Yes, sometimes it’s hard to imagine, but only because the poem hasn’t been cracked yet.
      : see the book-based TT hunt for an example, or Masquerade for a PICTURE based puzzle hunt )

    • I think that as Forrest has said that there are 9 main clues, and 5 pieces that boost those clues. The rest are just thrown in to make it a challenge.

  47. I keep saying that the first hint, or clue is “as i have gone alone in there”. I am almost tempted to let you guys know where that lead to, but it would not be fun for you. Look in the book and this clue is in there. This clue is also in the poem. Pay attention at the book and study it like an unknown insect. You’ll see what I mean. RC

  48. What we all need to remember is the poem is a circle…the beginning is the end…..I think….. the stanzas could go in order, or it could be one,six, five, two, three, four, five, six, one. Nine clues…your welcome.

  49. IMO…
    “Where warm waters halt”, would tend to suggest Winter. Such as when it is no longer warm water, but cold water (as in snow). This would work well with the reference to the line “Your effort (search) will be worth the cold.

    Fenn would not use “When” in place of “Where, because that would have been too obvious (his play on words). In addition, “When” if used, would still work in place of “Where”. Read it using both words and you’ll see what I mean. I gave consideration to the fact that Forrest said not to change anything. However, does it really change anything?

    It would figure then that Forrest would be supporting the idea, “As I have gone alone in there”. In addition to which, he chose the winter time, instead of the summer time, when it has fewer people to observe his movements. Finally, in many places the water levels drop prior to Spring (if crossing rivers or streams).

    I present this, only because I have not read anywhere on the blog where this was mentioned or suggested. Again, this is only my opinion.

  50. Re-post

    i saw my post was held for modertion so I checked it in MS word. Found a few spelling errors as well as a “bad” word. Seems I added an “n” to dam.

    Anyway, here it is again.

    I posted a couple things last night for the first time. I didn’t really contribute, so here is an “IMO” on the poem.

    I am not addressing every part of the poem, just the ones that seem to me over-looked or in question.

    I’ve been studying and lurking for two years. I will go out at the end of June to investigate six of my top picks. Luckily, I also have a friend in the area who has helped me scout remotely.

    Since Forrest has said that he did not expect anyone to find anything soon, I had to make some assumptions and solve within those assumptions. All of my solves have nothing to do with any type of manmade structure. No house. No blaze on anything that can rot, burn or die. No dam that can fail or be torn down. I think you get the picture. Every clue has to be lasting; eternally.

    Forrest has told us he planned to be with the treasure and have his bones found many years later. This means it is not in the open and not under water.
    “As I have gone alone in there” tells me it is a protected place. This place must also show no recent signs of humans (or scavengers).

    “And hint of riches new and old” – maybe he has found one of the lost treasures, and that is where he hid his. Not a clue, but it backs up the above statement because these lost treasures have been sought for years unfound. Or maybe just an abandoned mine, but I doubt it; too easy to find.

    “Begin it where warm waters halt” is a reference to a boundary. I don’t think it refers that much to temperature. My idea still reveals many starting points, but much, much fewer than I have seen here.

    “Put in below the home of Brown” – I don’t want to say too much about this one, but it is not a manmade structure. I really can’t say more without completely swaying the thought processes I have seen here.

    The entire next stanza has multiple meanings for me. However, I have them all covered with my individual solves.
    Waters high – Falls, lake, maybe something else, etc.
    Heavy loads – I don’t think it is the boulders I have seen here. Perhaps starting a normally moderate hike is a heavy load if it starts at 9700 feet. Maybe loads = lodes; mining areas. I have my opinions on this stanza but I will keep the specifics to myself.

    “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze” – this is something you have found. I believe it is visual and “wise” plays an important role. All of my solves have a connection to wise. You can’t find the blaze if you don’t understand “wise”.

    “But tarry scant with marvel gaze” – tells me there is something else there. In this stanza he is saying, “just take the chest”; leave the rest there. Just go. Not really a clue, but a revelation after the fact. This backs up “riches new and old”.

    “Your effort will be worth the cold” – well, you are going to get cold getting to it. Not in a dangerous way. Just an uncomfortable cold, as in a snow-thaw creek crossing. Or maybe it means nothing – you decide. I think it means you are going to get cold on your way.

    “If you are brave and in the wood” – again, I have several theories. Perhaps it is as simple as the creek will be in the forest and you have to cross it to get to the treasure.

    “Brave” – means the whole journey. As Forrest said, “Take your kids”. Therefore there is nothing brave about this in regard to danger. I do have one solve where brave takes on a different meaning, and it is not in the context of danger.

    Do I expect to find it during my two months in the “Mountains north of Santa Fe”? No. But it’s going to be a fun summer!

    Oh! I almost forgot to mention! I will be taking my young children with me on this quest. Forrest already said they should go, so I have not picked any dangerous solves.

    How awesome would it be to have your grandmother or grandfather tell you a story about the time his/her dad (your great-grandfather) took the whole family on a real-life treasure hunt? Whether we find it or not, I’m sure this will be a story that survives the generations.

    My “Thrill” is to have a story passed down to my great-grand-children about a wild treasure hunt in the mountains north of Santa Fe. How cool is that?!


  51. I found this poem and thought it so appropriate for the “Chase.”

    As we know,
    There are known knowns.
    There are things we know we know.
    We also know
    There are known unknowns.
    That is to say
    We know there are some things
    We do not know.
    But there are also unknown unknowns,
    The ones we don’t know
    We don’t know.

    Donald Rumsfeld

    • He left out the 4th and final one…

      Last are the unknown knowns,
      there are things we do not know
      that we know.

      meaning: If you’ve read the poem, you do know the location of the chest, you just don’t know it.


        • Then one reason IMHO for this site…

          And then there are the unknown knowns.
          The unknowns we have that somwone else knows.
          Those knowns when revealed bring enlightenment.
          A new path is discovered and new thing is found.
          The Thrill of the Chase is recharged and a treasure is discovered.

          Thank you Forest for the Thrill of the Chase.
          Thank you Dal for giving us a place to recharge and share the treasures we find.

          The best of luck to all of you!

  52. A few people have commented about the poem being a metaphor. If this is true, then we need to really define the words TREASURE & CHEST. I treasure your opinions and will keep my cards close to my chest.

  53. I posted this under Odds and Ends. I thought I might be worthy of at least one comment… I’m trying again. I saw it as a possible definition for WWWH. Especially with the steam engine/water stop/Indiana Jones connection at the web address listed below. Just wanted to throw it out there to toss around.

    Halt (from German: stop) can refer to:
    halt, a small railway station, usually unstaffed, with few facilities and normally is a request stop

    • BW, I did see that definition of halt too but it didn’t fit in with my interpretations of the other clues so I discarded it. Maybe you can find a way for it to work for you though. No-one has the treasure yet so your interpretations are just as good as everyone else’s. 🙂

        • Be – I think I may have posted there about it, but I think the BNSF railroad , before it was BN, is an interesting tie in too. Especially since the SF – santa fe- is the name if FF ‘s address and website. There are a number of abandoned tracks and halts inside the search map – ghost stations!- which would be fabulous places for treasure hunt like this: no place for meek, no paddle up creek, heavy loads!, the End (halt) ever nigh — tons of good tie ins !

      • CJinCA, I’m not specifically “picking on” you here. But
        you reminded me of something that many folks on this
        forum have claimed . . . that all solves are equally good
        until the TC is found.

        Well, here’s my opinion on all this: NOT all solves are
        equally good. Some point a searcher to New Mexico,
        some to Colorado, some to Wyoming, and some to
        Montana. Only one of these states contains the TC!

        I believe that a solve could be quite good — or even excellent –, but until a searcher has the TC in hand, there’s no PROOF that this solve is valid.

        I suggest that people don’t hop in a vehicle and hit
        the road searching until they are convinced that they
        have at least 8 clues correctly solved.

        The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

        Good luck to all searchers. Please stay safe.

    • BW-
      That railroad was a hot spot right from the start. Stephanie looked there…maybe three years ago and wrote about it. Many others have searched the yard, the river near the yard, the town, the water tower…and on and on..
      Some have looked at various stops that train makes. Others have ridden it…looked all around it’s destination…
      Nobody has been able to make all nine clues work there as far as I know..
      And I don’t mean Tim Nobody…I mean nobody.. 🙂

  54. Does anybody have concrete evidence found in both the book, and the poem? I do. I think that there are searchers that may have the same evidence since they keep going to the “place”. There are hints in the book that if you have read it already about 10 times or more you will find them, and when you analyze the poem it gives you the same “place”.It gives you a place in New Mexico. Anybody concurs? RC

      • Dal* Going against my greed, and common sense I will tell you. This is the hint, or clue ” As I have gone alone in there, and with my treasure bold” . There is a sentence in the book that says this in a different way. Look for it and follow the hints in the sentence. Once you have found the sentence you will know exactly what I have been saying since the beginning of this search. Good luck in yourre search.

      • RC
        Not Nor either. I keep landing at the same spot in Montana with treasures bold matching both books and poem.

    • Why anyone would consider any place other the NM has always been a question to me. But what do I know?????????

      • You know lots of things. I don’t believe that any
        searcher is likely to convince any other searcher
        that their solve isn’t the “correct” one.

  55. Has anyone considered that maybe the WWWH might be a website you go to find Mr. Fenn’s actual map and it will us to the treasure? Think or something like that. It just popped into my head and that was after seeing it jump out at me after all of the many months and couple of years I have been searching? What do you think Dal, Wolf and others that have been hot on the trail? Just a thought?

    • Judy, do you think that approach would stand the test of
      time (say, a thousand years)? Good to think out-of-the-box,
      though. Having an imagination and using it will be important
      to a good solve.

      The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

    • Hi Judy/Andrew — this www dot idea comes up from time to time on Dal’s site, and when I see it I repost Forrest’s reply to a searcher (Doc) from March 2013 that seems to put this idea to rest:

      Doc writes: “Here are Forrest’s own words on that, in reply to the question from me: “…sometimes you can overcook a solution by thinking too much. I am a simple man and www never entered my mind.”

      Doc follows with “I’d say that’s pretty straightforward. I was hooked on that angle for a while, but I hope that by posting it here, he’ll get less email about it. Lord knows the man gets enough email…”

      It was good enough for me (even when I hadn’t yet figured out WWWH), but there are searchers who aren’t willing to attach any significance to such hearsay.

  56. Hint :to say (something) or give information about (something) in an indirect way

    does anyone have any thoughts on this?

    I first thought it simply was about ff giving just us all just a partial list of the treasure.

  57. Well I found something very early on that has since disappeared that was put in place livefyre. It was like a big old flag waving. No hints, just their logo.
    Now go research. 🙂

  58. IMO, what makes this poem so difficult is the approach that most people are taking to solve it. Most people are looking for physical places that are described as warm waters halt, HOB, etc. They aren’t physical places, they are metaphors. Forrest has written a gnomic poem. Gnomic poems were used in the Middle Ages to teach lessons through riddle. He gives us a clue that he is using this method: “And hint of riches new and old.” He also hints when he says WWWH is not a dam. (It’s a metaphor for something).

    Definition of gnomic: Enigmatic; ambiguous:
    Gnomic Poetry


    Mysterious and often incomprehensible yet seemingly wise.

    Here is an example of a poem riddle using metaphor to describe time:

    Until I’m measured I am not known,
    yet how you miss me when I have flown.

    I think this is the approach that will solve the poem.

    • Jack – your thoughts on Gnomic poetry fit with FF’s type of wisdom; also the Romanesque period he chose to highlight in literature, artifacts and the TC.

      Thank you for sharing your insightful comments!

    • Ah, but ff said
      “Knowing about…bible verses, …Latin, … icons, …fonts, formulas, …codes, …riddles, …ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location”

      No doubleomegas, no riddles/formulas. It’s a great idea, but it seems he’s discounted it.

    • IMO they are not metaphors at all. IMO they are simply descriptions of a location that most likely had a big impact on Forrest and his love for the mountains as a child.

  59. Answer the riddle of tthe color of the bear in one of Jenny’s latest questions? Anyone? The bear is white, your home is the North Pole.

  60. Lets not forget that FF has said in the past that only the poem and the book will lead you to the chest. Anything we hear outside of that is just extra noise. I don’ believe the double omegas were on that list mapsmith. If not, that is more misinformation!! If so, I apologize. I’m too focused (aka lazy) to search for that list myself. If there are no red herrings or false clues in the poem then stanza six has been solved correctly, because it is Way Too coincidental that FBF URANIUM is right there for all to see in that stanza!!

    • Well – I lived in Colorado on top of a uranium deposit. My house had to be mitigated for the radon gas. I remember when they went to put in the septic field the contractor was expecting to have to blast a bit of rock – instead “it was like butter – dark rich soil.” He asked if I wanted to sell some of it as it was the best top soil he had seen in our area. I was told there was a land slide in the area and that it just happened to get deposited on my property??? So was the soil rich because of the uranium or just good soil that slid down later????? Don’t look for rock Dal – look for dark brown rich soil !!!!!

  61. And would it not be logical to assume that the FBF in stanza six must be the blaze? In other words…what purpose do his initials serve in the poem, if not to tell us that these are the letters he has used to mark his blaze?

  62. Michael from my research there were place in Helena mines which had uranium that you could set in therefore look around helena mt might help you find a link

  63. I wholly agree on the ” I went alone” reference (somewhere above).
    Based on the content of the book, I think the poem tells a parallel story both as a life metaphor and a map. I think “where warm waters halt” is a poetic euphemism for the end of childhood. The treasure hunter should begin at the stories where maturity begins … marriage, war, children, responsibilities, loss, perishablity — New Mexico. Gold is in the life canyons we go down, often too far to walk- alone,, no place for the meek, heavy loads etc. IMO the latter half of the book is a love letter to Peggy. Fenn’s boldest treasure, and in “being there”— still swinging, kicking, doing, acting… with/and with thanks to, Peggy, family, friends, career, collections, etc. Well, that’s my rationale, &I’m headed for NM. Im gonna get some of that kicking, doing, acting stuff with my family… even though it may all be a big P.T.Barnum type hoax ( after all, God Forgives, Imagination is Important, and it only matters who they think you are. pg138)
    And just for fun guys, google Barnum Brown.

    • Old Shadows – enjoy NM with your family, and tell Mr. Fenn I forgive him if this all a hoax; but he may have a hoard of others he needs to outrun through the canyon of life, and dive for cover beneath his home of Brown. Ha!

  64. That’s amusing. People pay thousands of dollars to suck radon out of their basements, and these folks pay money to go sit in a cave and breath it in. What’s wrong with this picture?

  65. Fellow trackers,
    Have you done it tired, & now you’re weak?
    In need of a long hot dip?

    There is no ‘I’ or ‘You’ in stanza two, so why assume the ‘you’? Assume the ‘I’:
    I Begin …
    I Take …
    Not far (for me) but too far to walk (for you).
    I Put …

    Who is the voice that laments?

  66. As we wait for Ritt to show us his method of solving the 9 clues, I’d like to put my method / theory out for public scrutiny. Should you like to comment on what I post, Please feel free to do so, with no fear of hurting my feeling… I have none… so knock yourselves out. This Is just My opinion on how I see / read / determine the poem. I will not be offering a clue, Just my personal thought of the poem. [ note: Dal or Goofy, should this post be better placed under another topic, Please move or remove it… thank you ]
    Every word in the poem has more than one definition / meaning. The multiple meanings of each word should be used to understand the theme or meaning of the poem. I can see that the poem is straightforward, at the same time needing to use those many meanings to understand “ how to read the poem”. Not unlike, “start at the beginning”, seems straightforward, but is it at “begin it WWWH”? or at the beginning of the 1st stanza? Or maybe begin it at the Question, “why is it I must go…”? In my theory the answer is Yes for all. For me to understand the poem straightforward, I need to understand What the beginning is of the theme in the poem, and not so much a starting point on a piece of paper.
    Reading and re-reading and reading again using the Multiple Meanings of the words, a story of such pops up, a journey to travel IMO. This is all great but I still don’t see a clue, unless I try to force one to fit. I should say at this point…I don’t read the poem as “clues”, I see the entire text of the poem as hints, hints when understood and used properly reveal not only a theme, but what I believe to be the actual clues…Just 9 of them. Not unlike, the I never said buried…never said not buried, Clue and hint are similar as to defining them.
    The poems format and structure holds a tons of information itself. When I read the poem and combine the meanings to either, the information in the format or structure, I reveal clues. They are not always that ah ha moments, more like, dang that’s clever as hell moment. My thought of what hoB is, it’s a person, a place and a thing, not just one or the other. This information is now incorporated with the use of the format of the poem and the capital letters in the beginning of each line. Or the understanding of what feen is relaying to us that hoB is, added with a number count in the other two I just mentioned and I get a full set of coordinates. This maybe correct or completely wrong… my point is, just seeing the poem at face value, The Kiss or keep it simple stupid method IMO is misleading. More to, difficult but not impossible.
    As I read and re-read the poem I see that this “kiss” method leads some to read the poem too literal, a step by step set of direction you just simple follow. Honestly, how’s that working for ya? If, the poem contains all the information need to find the location of the chest, Is using a outside recourse to find a clue to be used in the poem a good or bad idea? I say just the wrong way to go about it. We all need to look up some sort of information now and then, but to use this information as a direct link to solving the poem is the wrong process, I don’t believe a quote or another’s book or a nursery rhyme etc. is “needed”. Anything used outside the poem can’t not contain clues or the original statement must be false and the poem never solvable. I have of late been reviewing fenn’s statements and comment, in the attempt to understand just exactly what is being said. Recently I had a discussion of a Q&A about the answer of …NO history, but maybe a comprehensive knowledge of geography… My take on this Q&A was the question specifically said “US history” IMO this left room for the answer NO, but doesn’t eliminate all history. IMO the question was an attempt to feel out information and Fenn was wise to it, giving a truthful answer with-out volunteering more information. Why not just ask how deep the hole is? Most of the comments and Q&A’s I see the same way… cleverly answering the question truthfully and not answering the question directly. But there are others that just mean exactly what the mean… The poem contains all the information…….
    Fenn doesn’t think in the traditional ways that most others do. I swear he as an eidetic memory and sharp as a tack. Cleverness, common sense and self educated is more to his style, then forced book smarts and educational system intelligence, But that doesn’t make him any less intelligent then those? Just, more well rounded. IMO.
    I wrote this, in hope to show a different avenue for interpretation of the poem, Not a must do. I have talked to many searchers and have been pleasantly surprised by their own methods of seeing / understanding the poem, completely different from the common… That is all I’m attempting to do as well.

    • In my solve I found that the poem itself is the blaze. Once I solved the clues I had a distinct place that existed on the map. From there I needed to begin the poem again from that exact spot and proceed literally and geographical just as it reads. It seems to line up to a distinct blaze on the map….but god knows what I’ll find on the actual ground. Am I sure? No way. Am I excited enough to burn some frequent flyer miles as soon as I can? Certainly. That what it’s all about isn’t it? 🙂 In hindsight it seems like there are many different ways one might logically arrive at the same starting point…but I’m not sure if fenn was genious enough to engineer it that way, or if it just seems like that looking back.

      • I think it’s REALLY important to consider that fenn knew where he wanted to hide it FIRST…and then wrote the poem. To me, that means he also had to pick where he wanted it to begin. Both places being equally important and critical to us searchers. Think about it. He knew where he wanted to hide it….he CHOSE where he wanted it to begin….

      • Seeker,
        I like your approach. It seems as good as any. Forrest had plenty of time to make everything fit just the way he needed it to. In general terms, literal versus implied, makes the whole challenge. It will be interesting to see if this is figured out in our lifetime. Good luck and safe hunting !

        • Ken,
          Literal vs implied is interesting.

          “As I have gone alone in there and with my Treasures bold,..”
          “So why is it I must go and leave my trove for all to seek?

          At first, this seems literally Mr. Fenn. Or does it imply another? ….. Who is I ?

          The poem was written by Fenn. How do we know that? He told us point blank…”so I wrote a poem..”

          Does this truly mean the poem is about him or could it be he is narrating the poem, while cleverly wording it to read, as he is talking about himself and presenting a challenge to solve.

          Ask why the use of treasures vs. trove. They don’t truly mean the same. So Is I what we believe it is at first glance?

          IMO reading part, line by line will not work as well as, reading the whole.

          • Heres an old layer of mine, maybe someone can use ….

            So WY is where I must go, and leave my trove… (Why=WY) + (it that=where) + (switch question to a statement)
            The near SSW I already know…. (‘near SSW’ is an ‘answers’ anagram) .
            Tired may mean tires, and weak may mean on foot in sox.

            Suggested to me that educational LONG RIDE HOME area where antelope and ducks were road kill by cars that probably didn’t go over 60 mph …

          • Seeker,
            As you already noted, each word has multiple meanings. Literal is how one would read the poem as it stands. My only point is that one could thread the multiple meanings into a whole different take on what you see on paper. Pretty similar to what I think you already noticed…

      • Seeker,
        I subscribe to the multiple meaning theory. The primary meaning is the obvious or more popular interpretation. The second and or third meaning adds to the confidence that the generic meaning is the correct one.

        Thus @Circumstance you can easily cut through all those false matches by identifying the secondary meaning that removes the falsies and confirms the only true solution.

        As far as comprehensive understanding of geography: I believe that comprehensive means all encompassing which means that history of the geography will be necessary. He says the finder will think analyze and have done a lot of research. If it is as simple as just following a few steps where does the logic, analysis and research fit in?

        That was a dangerous answer he provided if you do not understand what comprehensive means. That also begs the question: if the answer doesn’t only requires a knowledge of geography, is it ok to use history to prove or provide the necessary confidence to know it is correct?

        The Wolf

        • Forrest said “The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.” In Wikipedia there is people geography, animal geography, etc. Are these part of comprehensive?

          • geography (dʒɪˈɒɡrəfɪ)
            n, pl -phies
            1. (Physical Geography) the study of the natural features of the earth’s surface, including topography, climate, soil, vegetation, etc, and man’s response to them
            2. (Physical Geography) the natural features of a region
            3. an arrangement of constituent parts; plan; layout

          • @Peter In my solve no one has to know the meaning of the 9 clues. You just follow the clues,and there you are. How can someone just follow something without knowing where they are headed. Well, if you follow the clues precisely you will find out. I am not saying, or even implying Mr. Fenn is wrong when he says one should know what the clues mean. That is his truth, but is that all his truth? To imply something when Mr. Fenn talks,or writes is to go about the search the wrong way. This is my opinion, and my opinion only. RC.

  67. I’d like to mention the Q&A for today from Mysterious Writings as follows:

    Would you want the person that finds your treasure to admire the place where it rests? Andrew

    Well Andrew, I’m not sure “admire” is the right word but if we twist it a little maybe we can make it work. The word means approval or high regard. So it works. I sure feel that way or I would not have hidden it there. I like the way you think Andrew. f

    Interesting to me is that, in answering the Question, Fenn “twisted” … the meaning of the word…” a little maybe to make it work.”
    Twisting, with other meanings yet means almost the same, to make more sense to His interpretation of how “admire” would work in the understanding the place, the chest lays in wait.

    This sound a bit familiar to me. But I’m sure other will see the same answer meaning something completely different than I.
    That’s the challenge of it, after all, isn’t it?

  68. Bear with me, I’m trying to see the poem with new eyes, actually too easy to do and I have ideals all over the board but my newest thought is a play on words like he used butterfly= flutterby
    In his very first line of the first stanza As I have gone alone in there…
    There is 1 I in there and alone= lone a…maybe a key of sorts?
    Using that reasoning I’ve come up with begin it where warm waters halt=
    Egg be in it where warm waters halt. like egg mountain in montana near freeze out lake where the dinosaur eggs were found…
    Blaze=lazy b…could be a B on it’s side which looks similar to the symbol in his book, or maybe the Tetons(he does have the humor of a 14 year old boy) he does say to tarry not with marval gave but take the CHEST and go in peace…
    As a side note on the egg mountain, there was a shallow ocean 300 miles east of there where the dinosaurs roamed…thought it was interesting how he spoke of treasure being at least 300 miles west of Toledo. There are, of course, more scattered throughout the poem but wondered if anyone else is working this angle?

    • michelle-
      I played with that idea a couple of years ago but unfortunately that sea stopped on the eastern front of the rockies…so it seemed to not be any part of the Rocky Mountains..then I played with ancient lakes Bonneville and Missoula for awhile and thought I had a nice WWWH at Red Rock Pass…but that didn’t pan out…which led me to Lake Bonnevilles only remaining segment..Great Salt Lake…
      All water that enters the Great Salt Lake stops there…or evaporates…there is no outlet from the Great Salt Lake…so I tried to make that work for awhile but eventually gave up on it too…

      • Dal,
        Thanks for your input, I’m going the long way about this, don’t even have an area really, just messing around with the words. I played with be g in it=IgT…turns out that is a newly discovered immunoglobulin found in teleost fish, i.e. trout. funny where things lead.

  69. I have a different take than most bloggers about the place where Forrest hid the treasure chest. It is my opinion that most of us are letting our imagination do the thinking and not our common sense. Think about it, Forrest knows how most of us think. He has said that himself. I have thought about this fact, and it seems to me, that I made a mistake when I went to the Pecos Wilderness looking for the treasure thinking the treasure was there. The poem’s clues, I think, take us to Manby Hot Springs, but that is not the place where the treasure is(I do not think). All of these clues and the spot only point somewhere else. Yes, where warm waters halt can be Manby Hot Springs, but at the same time it means something else. All the clues, to me, mean the same. For example, WWWH, and put in below the home of Brown have the same meaning. RC.

  70. I believe the first stanza tells you how many clues there are…
    As I have gone alone In there= i
    I can keep mY secret Where= x as x falls in the middle of yxw
    Second stanza starts by telling that this is clue 9.
    begin it=i…where warm waters halt, halt at w thus x= ix
    take it in the canyon leaves cayo down which means in spanish both “he fell” and “inlet”, both definitions fit” not far, but too far to walk”, the previous line also refers to clue 8…not far iv but too far ii iv= equals 8
    Brown inlet is in Carpentaria, put IN below home of and you get CarpINtaria…with me so far?

  71. The long and short of it,

    My wife and I purchased the remaining 6 acres from an old dairy farm operation and subsequently bought a tractor and bush hog to keep the pasture cut back.

    The previous owner, Larry, was out one morning and came over to chat. He was in his 70s and was a matter of fact, straight to the point kind of person.He grew up on the 105 acre dairy farm and still farmed his portion on which he lived on.

    We had many previous conversations, mainly about the weather, our community, etc. I had talked to him about me farming our six acres. I knew nothing about farming and still don’t.

    Anyway, during our conversation he offered to sell me his cultivator for $150.00. This sounded like a good deal.

    So I asked him, “Larry what’s a cultivator do? He looked at me serious and perplexed as if I just grew a third eye and sternly said “It cultivates”.

    I did not respond verbally but nodded my head as if I understood his two word explanation.

    Larry had past this last year. I’ll will never forget that conversation…. of how honest and absurd it was at the same time.

    My point is, I believe the poem is straight to the point and matter of fact. No hidden formulas, alien being translations, no tricks, etc.

    Spring is here. Time to search. Be safe. Good luck to all.

      • That’s funny, Tarheel. You could drink a V8…or just stay in a Holiday Inn Express the night before. I think it’s best to say the Holiday Inn Express joke in person, though. It’s really hard to tell when someone is being serious or not from just reading online. 🙂 Some people seem to be born without funny bones. Others don’t find out they have one until their honeymoon. 🙂

        • I didn’t let on to Larry but I was laughing really hard inside. I guess that’s why I’ll always remember it.
          Even though Larry was serious, I found it very humorous and ironic.

    • I agree, Tarheel! 🙂

      When I moved to Oklahoma in 1970, I didn’t know the difference between a bull and a steer. It wasn’t long and I was making them.

      Have fun cultivating your farm!

    • Tarheel, I agree with you. Although it is important to use a
      bit of imagination, the poem is straightforward and not full
      of tricks. No wonder FF said that (paraphrasing,) when we
      learn where the TC was hidden, we’ll wonder what took
      so long.

      My solve was finished in January 2016. I have made 2
      search trips, both to the same area. On the first trip, I
      think I got within about a thousand feet of the TC, but
      was deterred by snowfall. I didn’t search on that day,
      because I hadn’t reached the “search zone”.

      On the second trip, I think I got within about 300 feet.

      I think that on this next trip, I’ll be looking at the TC . . .
      what’s that old saying? “The third time’s the charm” ?
      I have (yes, quite arrogantly) even rehearsed what to say
      when I find the TC: “Well, that was anticlimactic.”

      I know this is just like “blowing smoke” . . .

      The above is all just my opinion. Yours may differ.

      Good luck to all searchers. Please make safety a high

  72. Just started the chase. Have not received my book yet. I remember reading somewhere that Forrest said all you need is the poem.

    I am wondering if it is possible to solve it without the book, without knowing anything about Forrest. If it is possible then how would you interpret the poem?

    • @ hope – Forrest Fenn said to interpret his poem precisely and it will lead you to his treasure and the end of his rainbow.

      Get out your carving utensils for precision. I think TTOTC has valuable information including hints which will land you in the right state. Then purchase a good map and jump on google earth with the rest of us. While waiting for the books, READ the important information here on Dal’s blog.

    • hope, Forrest has said that, but he has also said that he
      reserves the right to make mistakes. Here’s my take on
      this: The poem gives precise directions. But to interpret
      the poem correctly, one would need to know some things
      that are not in the poem. For example, how to drive a
      vehicle, or otherwise travel to the general location of the
      TC (within a few miles of it). Also, how to hike safely in a
      location that is not near any human trail. This means to
      have some knowledge of what to bring (food, water, etc.).
      It also means not to just head out on a snowy day in the
      middle of winter, hiking alone into a wilderness area.

      Stuff like that. But it will also take a long time to figure out
      what the poem means. Months, probably, if you spend 2
      or 3 hours daily on the task. Please read this carefully,
      because I don’t want to keep repeating myself. The poem
      is like a chain, with every link needed to get the job done.
      If one link fails, guess what? THE CHAIN FAILS!

      I like to think of the poem as being a 9-link chain, each
      clue being one link. The interpretation for EACH AND
      EVERY clue has to be valid, or the entire thing is
      worthless — except for the fact that a searcher who
      gets away from the computer and into the Rockies will
      reap the benefits of the adventure . . . which was a primary
      reason for this whole treasure hunt.

      I suggest you choose a tentative solution for what you
      think is the FIRST clue, and with it in mind, try a tentative solution for the SECOND clue. If the solution for the
      SECOND clue isn’t compatible with your solution for the
      FIRST clue, something is wrong. You may have to try a
      different interpretation for the SECOND clue. If you have exhausted all the ideas you can think of regarding the
      SECOND clue, then perhaps the FIRST clue needs to be re-considered.

      This method took me about 4 months, working on it every
      night for 2-3 hours. And I’m a bright (and yes, arrogant)

      . . . One clue at a time, as long as each makes sense in
      relation to the adjacent one(s). Don’t start by looking for
      the blaze.

      Good luck. Please stay safe. And remember that in the
      Rocky Mountains, there are bears, snakes, mosquitoes,
      mountain lions, other wild (and dangerous) animals, and
      freezing temperatures.

      The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

  73. After reading the poem hundreds of times I realized Fenn ask a question that he never answers in the poem. Most would think that part of the poem holds very little but he tells you he knows the answer the gives a description of why. Could this question hold a lot more than the average hunter would think?

  74. Anybody else run into a wall (figuratively) lately trying to solve the puzzle/poem? I thought that now that I have a little more time to give to my solve that I would have “more success” with new insight into solving the riddle. Alas, I must confess that I haven’t had a “new way of looking at things” in over a month. It’s like my mind keeps going over the same line of thought over and over and over again. Anyone have any proven methods for getting out of a mental rut?

    • My best advice would be to step away from the whole thing for a bit and then come back to it reviewing everything again. Your mind will keep working on it in the background while you are away and you may have new insights when you return to the materials. Musicians will do this with difficult pieces of music; work very intensely on learning the technique and notes for a period then put it aside for a while. On returning to a previously set aside piece of music there is often new perspective on the composition as a whole that adds an entirely new level of musicality.

      • Yes, threerocks, that’s a great way to get out of a rut.

        Swwot and spallies –

        Also what helped me out of a rut – is to go back and re-organize my paper work. If your not taking notes – probably should start doing so…..

        If things are not coming together for you – perhaps it’s the dreaded starting spot. It’s hard to let go of something you think is right – but do you want to find it – or do you want to be right?

          • I’ve taken about 50 pages of notes. It
            has been helpful. And (relatively) easy to edit and manage on this computer.

            It was very time-consuming. But I don’t
            know any other practical and reasonably-
            efficient way to do it.

            My file is called “evolution of the solution”. I found some useful ideas
            on this forum. Thanks, people!

            And special thanks to Dal and Goofy!

            The above is just my opinion. Yours
            may differ. Good luck to all searchers,
            and please give safety a high priority
            at all times.

    • Thanx gang – pretty much what I have tried to do – that is, to step away. A little insight into my psyche is that I am a pretty rabid D3Football fan and we’re down to 8 teams in the finals this weekend, so for football-aholics like me, this is a diversion.

      I have to say, I don’t really have a “starting spot” yet, and that’s what’s kind of bugging me. I am not confident in hardly any of my abilities to solve the puzzle. While I have expereinced a wide assortment of experiences in my life, I’m not sure I have the right, or maybe better said, close enough experiences that could “overlay” what Mr. Fenn has experieinced to allow me the insight into what he was thinking when he penned the poem. Does that make sense to any one else out there in “chaseland”? As I study him and what he has written for us, nothing is popping out like a sore thumb, as they say.

      Well, I’ll let the nuts and bolts come to a rest in my noggin for a spell. Then when I pick it up again maybe they’ll realign in a different sequence and not make so much noise as they rattle around. Just maybe I’ll come up with a solution.

      Everyone try to stay warm tonight.

      • It’s fun to just go out there. In my opinion, who cares if you have the right solve, or any solve. If you’re out in the woods in one of those four states, you have a chance, and you’re probably going to have a good time.

        People underrate the appeal of canasta.

  75. Has anybody thought of the idea that the nine clues are within nine clues? I do not know if anybody has, but what if you decipher the lines that look like clues, and then the nine sentences in the poem, or vice versa. Then you would go in confidence. To me, going with confidence is to go somewhere where I was told to go trusting something, or someone. Is this a good definition? Maybe. But who are we to trust, and who, or what is telling us to to where? Is it Mr. Fenn telling us to go somewhere, or is it something, or someone else? Do we keep chasing the clues until we get to the treasure, or do we just look in the beginning? The treasure chest may be in front of us, and we just do not know it. This is my opinion and opinion only. RC.

  76. A Map Created With Words!

    Apparently, Forrest Fenn is not the first person to use poetry to describe geographical locations, LIKE A MAP MADE WITH WORDS instead of drawings.

    “Sir Walter Raleigh (1554 – 29 October, 1618) is famed as a writer and poet. One of the last true “Renaissance men,” Raleigh was an explorer, soldier, courtier, author, and skeptic: he is remembered as one of the men-of-letters to not only have written of new worlds but to have actually sailed off in search of them. Like Aeschylus, he was a poet who fought in wars as often as he wrote of them. With his varied interests in geography, theology, poetry, and governance, Raleigh was truly of a widely-cultured mind.” (

    “Raleigh is remembered as a literary figure primarily for his poems, yet only 560 lines of his verse remain. He is not, by any means, a talent on the order of his close contemporaries William Shakespeare, Christopher Marlowe, or Ben Jonson. Nevertheless, his literary reputation remains favorable not only for his talent at poetry (which is more than adequate) but for the powerful messages which his poems carry; messages that could not have been written by any other hand than one, like his, that had been weathered in combat and at sea.”

    “Raleigh is remembered almost as much for his swashbuckling character and the legends that have sprung up about him as he is for his writings. Nevertheless, as one of the first English-speaking explorers to attempt a colony in North America and one of the closest courtiers to the legendary Queen Elizabeth, Raleigh’s prose—which includes numerous diaries and travel books on the New World and notes on the monarchy—all written by an author with his formidable talent, provide an invaluable contribution to the literature and history of sixteenth and seventeenth century England”

    It sounds to me like Forrest Fenn has some things in common with Sir Walter Raleigh. Both spent their lives exploring, and discovering. Both have a fondness for creating literature in an effort to draw others into the discovery of the world around them.

    Sir Walter Raleigh developed some techniques to use in his writing, in which he created a visual image of the world through words, rather than the traditional maps. Isn’t that what Forrest has done? Created a map of words, that when understood, gives a visual image of where we are supposed to find the treasure?

    Here is more on Sir Walter Raleigh.

    “European scholars in the sixteenth century furiously debated the appropriate sources to use when constructing a chronology of the ancient world. While a dwindling group continued to insist that Scripture alone provided reliable evidence for the ancient world, most turned increasingly to ever more esoteric sources for the past. They also developed specific practices to integrate their new materials with traditional authorities. Early practitioners of geography, like those of its sibling discipline of chronology, labored to integrate an increasing body of sources. These scholars did not assume that the influx of contemporary traveler’s reports invalidated received wisdom but instead adapted existing practices of note taking to synthesize the new missives with venerable authorities. These techniques, this chapter argues, generated a new economy for making knowledge in which individual observations and statements were evaluated primarily by their coherence within a holistic system of explanation, not strictly according to the credibility of their source. ” (Walter Ralegh’s “History of the World” and the Historical Culture…, by Nicholas Popper p 122)

    “As Ralegh’s geographical investigations will show, geographer’s application of antiquarian and historical practices of methodical note taking from a vast array of sources produced a discipline at once arcaneyl erudite and precisely technical. Their practice emphasized the certainty of Knowledge gained by the process of extracting, compiling, judging, and synthesizing evidence, rather than by identifying the most authoritative source and its transformed contours illuminate broader shifts toward empirical and inductive methodologies increasingly embraced by early modern scholars” (Walter Ralegh’s “History of the World” and the Historical Culture…, by Nicholas Popper p 122-123)

    “These descriptive geographies, modeled after Strabo, depicted the physical features, peoples, customs, rites, clothing, minerals, weather, foods, flora and fauna of the Holy Land, the New World, Africa and places further afield. They opened new worlds to the explorer. . . “ (Walter Ralegh’s “History of the World” and the Historical Culture…, by Nicholas Popper p 124)

    “Ralegh’s surving manuscript notebook lays bare his method of note taking. “(Walter Ralegh’s “History of the World” and the Historical Culture…, by Nicholas Popper p 124)

    Sir Walter Raleigh spent some time imprisoned in a tower. It was during this time that he continued to write about the world he had explored as well as the view from the tower where he was being held. Read what he had to say about his method of describing the world using words.

    “Often the difficulties of not understanding the proper names delayed my progress and the smoothness with which I read, and I desired to know these things, etymologies of names drawn from the fonts of their languages, and the sites and and distances of places, regions, cities, mountains and rivers. To combat this frustration, he devised a method of reading and extracting passages from Scripture:” Often the difficulties of not understanding the proper names delayed my progress and the smoothness with which I read, and I desired to know these things, etymologies of names drawn from the fonts of their languages, and the sites and and distances of places, regions, cities, mountains and rivers.” (Walter Ralegh’s “History of the World” and the Historical Culture…, by Nicholas Popper p 126)

    “Ralegh recorded both maps and textual fragments in his notebook, reflecting the profusion of modes of ordering geographical knowledge sparked by the flourishing of this discipline in early modern Europe. (Walter Ralegh’s “History of the World” and the Historical Culture…, by Nicholas Popper p 126)

    “Throughout Europe, the increased significance attributed to geographical learning prompted scholars to revise modes of encapsulating their knowledge.” (Walter Ralegh’s “History of the World” and the Historical Culture…, by Nicholas Popper p 131)

    “Other authors experimented with nonvisual methods to organize geographical information. Many atlases such as Sebastian Mnster’s 1544 Cosmographia, consisted predominantly of narrative accouts, and Reiners Reineck’s 1583. . . Provided diagrams delineating the various general and particulars of geographical forms. Within these diagrams, Reineck explained the differences between, for example, islands, peninsulas, promontories, isthmi, bridges and straits and listed
    examples in order of size. Each mode of presentation assumed a unique approach toward arranging geographical evidence from reproducing original texts, to processing them through note-taking method or logical catagories, to converting them into images. (Walter Ralegh’s “History of the World” and the Historical Culture…, by Nicholas Popper p 132)

    “Geographical authors thus experimented with a wide variety of alternatives for processing and absorbing geographical knowledge. Maps were valued because their visual presentation illuminated geographical knowledge only darkly perceptible when presented in text. But, like notebooks, they were viewed as just one alternative mode of assembling, organizing, and ordering knowledge of the world, offtering both a system with which to process further notes and insights with which to better investigate the past” (Walter Ralegh’s “History of the World” and the Historical Culture…, by Nicholas Popper p 134)


    I see many similarities between Sir Walter Raleigh and Forrest Fenn. I wonder if Forrest’s poem is written similarly to Sir Walter Raleigh’s works; LIKE A MAP MADE WITH WORDS INSTEAD OF IMAGES. I think it is worth further study of Sir Walter Raleigh’s techniques of writing.

    Does the Thrill of the Chase create a visual image, similar to a map, but with words instead of images; an alternative type of map to be used along with the traditional map?


    Did Forrest use SYNONOMIA in his poem in order to give us a visual image, like a map made with words?

    Here is a description of SYNONOMIA
    Whenever we multiply our speech by many words or clauses of one sense, the Greeks call it synonomyia, as who would say, like or consenting names. The Latins have no fit term to give him called it by a name of event, for (said they) many words of one nature and sense, one of them doth expound the other and therefore they call this figure the Interpreter. . .“ (The Art of English Poesy, by George Puttenham, Frank Whigham, Wane A Rebhorn, p 299)

    This phrase is intriquing! “MANY WORDS OF ONE NATURE AND SENSE, ONE OF THEM DOTH EXPOUND THE OTHER AND THEREFORE THEY CALL THIS FIGURE THE INTERPRETER.” I need some examples of this so that I can understand it better. But, it does sound to me like it might fit this poem. Forrest has said that the poem is “straight forward”. This sounds like a technique that is “straight forward”

    “Puttenham’s statement that the Latins had no word for the Greek synonymia appears correct, although none of his sources make such a claim. Since Ad Herennium defines interpretation in a way that makes it mean what we mean by “synonym” and Susenbrotus uses synonymia and interpretation as equivalents, Puttenham’s coice of “the Interpreter” seems explicable. His phrase “name of event” is puzzling, however. He may be saying that since a synonym is in a series an interpretation or explanation of the word with which it is synonymous, then the synonym can be seen as a word (a noun or a “name”) that is the outcome (“event”) of the word with which it is synonymous. We normally think of synonyms as being (simultaneous) equivalents, but Puttenham, the the rhetoricians he is dependent on here, is talking about one word explaining another in succession.” (The Art of English Poesy, by George Puttenham, Frank Whigham, Wane A Rebhorn, Book 3/Chapter 19)


    This technique could possibly be applied to the poem and lead to a solution. Would love to discuss this.

    • Hi, Syn,…I agree with you , at least re: the one “…key” word Forrest has mentioned. I think I’ve located the word that (when interpreted via one of it’s synonyms) is a game changer. It’ a very important word, so important I’m not comfortable discussing it openly on the blog. At least not yet. The word is used differently in TTOTC, but it’s clearly there. It also fits your picture idea perfectly. Good thinking, SYN!

  78. WHY? That is the question I keep asking about line 2 and line 3. Why does every other line in the poem have 8 syllables and yet line 2 has 6 syllables and line 3 has 7 syllables. There has to be a reason. Any ideas?

  79. I think Mr. Fenn’s poem has 2 meanings; one is the physical, which does/did describe the location of a physical treasure. The other is the metaphysical or the hidden, deeper meaning of the poem. I believe the treasure is for all to be had.

    My interpretation is as follows, forgive me if it’s a little cheesy. I’ve only worked on it for 3 days. I believe Mr. Fenn spent 15 years on his.

    The Thrill of The Chase (an interpretation by Zia)

    Alone I looked death in the face
    And beat him with all that I have, knowledge and courage
    I will one day take my wisdom to my grave
    But before I do I will share my story past and new

    I was born into this world
    To begin this journey we call life
    I saw much but learned little
    Witnessed great injustices and inequality

    Ventured to places not for the mildly
    My life now drawing to an end
    Your struggle about to commence
    Your trials and tribulations await thee

    If you have been righteous you hold the key
    Only when you are penitent will your journey ready end
    There’s no time to wallow in pride
    Take what you have learned and hide

    None of us live forever; we all have an appointed time
    I leave my knowledge for all to find
    I have lived a meaningful life and learned my lessons well
    I lived with vigour but my body now tells

    If you will but lend an ear and listen to my impart
    Your journey through life is worth the hard
    If you have heart and learned well your lessons
    You have earned my life’s work and that is wisdom

    ps. I have had a pretty good stab at decphering the physical meaning of the poem i.e. the physical location of the treasure. I await a response from Mr. Fenn. If anyone can help me in this regard please feel free to contact me:

    Best of luck.

  80. Something occured to me while driving home today. What is the TITLE of THE poem? I thought the book’s title was TTOTC (where “the poem” was first published). The chapters have titles. Gold and More is the chapter title where the poem appears. Ode to Peggy Jean is another poem FF wrote and the title is listed above that poem (where you’de expect to find a poem’s title) and is ALSO the title of the chapter. My TFTW map has a thing that LOOKS like a title (I guess) at the top of the page that has the map and the poem on it….. TTOTC. Has this been pondered/discussed? The actual WORD, “Title” is in THE poem, so I guess that is what made me wonder about this. It seems like we refer to the poem as THE poem. Kinda like saying the artist formerly know as Prince. The poem in the book called, The Thrill of the Chase. OR is TTOTC the title of both the book and the poem?

  81. It is possible the the “TITLE” will become whatever the successful finder chooses to name it. (* Book/documentary etc.)


  82. The poem is exact, and there is no room for interpretation. It is not what the poem says but what we think it says. We should follow it precisely , and get out of our own way.This is my very own opinion.RC

  83. If you were to set aside all the statements and things f has otherwise said and look solely at the poem, what would you rationally and logically conclude to be the directions that take you to the treasure chest?

    • That’s a good question JCM,
      I remember when I first read the poem & had no books or didn’t see any other info except for the other things written on the page.
      The first thing that came to mind was Yellowstone National Park because of what I had known about the thermal springs there & this place reminded me of warm waters, but not halt.
      I still believe this is the place to start in the poem but obviously don’t know for sure.

      • Jake – Thanks for sharing that. More specifically, the first time or couple of times you read the poem, what did you initially see as being the directions in the poem to take you to the treasure chest?

        Forget about what you thought might be the clues in the poem or what the poems’ clues might have been referring to, just what logically looked like the detail in the poem that were the directions to get to the treasure chest.

        • Well JCM,
          I have to clarify my last comment.
          When reading the poem for the first few times, where warm waters reminded me of YNP but canyon down reminded me of the Grand Canyon & we all know now that is not the right state.
          I feel like I’m laying down on a couch talking to my shrink.
          I will try to think back there again now. It is difficult to remember exactly how I thought then but what I have said so far is true as I remember.

          I don’t think I was thinking directions at the time but thinking of places, yes places that I could relate to in the poem.

          I can keep my secret where, bothered me & was asking myself where is the secret?

          By this time I already had read it many times & knew there were 9 clues, so, my brain is tainted from this point forward & cannot honestly answer the question.

          From the beginning, it has always been begin it where to start & that may be because of the way I am wired, although I had tried to find other places to start, I have always gone back to begin.
          I will sip on my warm water now.

          • JCM,

            My .02…..Good question. Over the past 3 ½ years I have, as have many others, attempted to discern where to start. That is, where in the Poem do the nine consecutive clues begin.

            Given some of his remarks, I have looked at it from WWWH and also from the first stanza.

            But, I keep coming back to my initial (what you are asking) reading of the Poem. I thought then, and still do, that it made no sense.

            Oh, I don’t mean that I couldn’t possibly see how he could be directing us, but if one were to begin with the first stanza, how could you take the chest and go before it was given to you?

            The second reading of the Poem made me think that the actual journey begins with stanza 6, quite possibly stanza five.

            He has said you have to know where to begin and he has never given a hint to where/what that is. When he says it, I think he is quite possibly referring to the Poem…. (and, as JD and others espouse….. circular).

            Thus, IMO, there is a good possibility that one reads the stanzas, and begin, at 6,5,1,2,3,4….. That is looking at the big picture. (and, I know I am not the only one)

            My reading of it definitely is that if you are at “brave and in the wood”, he gives you “title”(heading) to the gold. So if you are there, you are “headed” in the right direction……so, you must “begin” there. And stanza six provides how to help identify it.

            Now, I also know you were possibly asking for what lines and/or words I might see, reading it in this manner, that would provide the directions…….ain’t sayin’ right now!!!! 🙂

            Good Luck to Evvybody!!!!………….loco

            (just my 02. and redneck way of seein’ things) 🙂

    • Looking at the poem rationally and logically, I come to the following conclusion. The word that is key is “I”.In other words, it is represented by “I”, as in “I have gone alone in there”. The poem is told from the perspective of “I”. Understanding “I” helps you to see “the big picture”. “I” knows where warm waters halt and “I” knows home of Brown. Understanding “I” can give us the answers to “where does warm waters halt”, and “what is the home of Brown”. I think it is the answers we need to seek. I don’t think the poem is step by step directions. I think the poem is the map. Understanding “word that is key” or “I” will help us with the answers we need to read the map. “The answers I already know” indicates to me that we need answers rather than directions. I think WWWH and HOB have answers that represent places on the map but we need the answers first. I think I now have “I”, “WWWH”, and “HOB”. I need to study “I” a bit more to get the rest of the answers so I can read the map we refer to as “the poem”.

  84. I think it may be (or may not be) important to interpret the poem’s theme, tone, etc… and then translate it into plain language as we had to do in English class in order to have a better understanding of its meaning. If we must begin with ‘where warm waters halt’, then perhaps that is the theme. If ‘warm waters’ is meant as the opposite of troubled waters than perhaps ‘where warm waters halt’ is the point at which life becomes much more difficult and smooth sailing is at an end (like a diagnosis of terminal cancer). A translation based on this theme may look something like this:

    I will face death alone as I have lived; self-reliant and full of adventure.
    And I will take my treasure with me.
    I will tell no one, taking my secret to my grave.
    And leave behind a legacy of who I was and provide others with the thrill of the chase.

    I will begin my journey at the point where I have no reasonable chance to recover from my cancer.
    I will take my life at the bottom of a canyon.
    Death will not be far, but I cannot walk there.
    I will plunge into the water below the home of Brown.

    I must be strong of will to meet death head on. It is no place to lose my resolve.
    The end of my life is coming to an end.
    Once I begin this journey, there will be no turning back.
    I will lie to rest with just my heavy chest and water high above me.

    If you have been clever enough to find the trail I have left
    Look down into the water below where I have brought my chest.
    But move quickly down and look carefully.
    Take only the chest and leave me in peace.

    Why must I take my own life?
    And provide others with the thrill of adventure I have enjoyed.
    Follow my trail, share in the thrill of the chase as I have done and you will know.
    My life will soon end and I am tired of waiting for the cancer to take me.

    Read my story and remember me.
    The effort and memories you make in your chase, will make the cold I feel now worthwhile.
    If you are not afraid to follow me on this troubled journey
    I will let you have my gold.

    This seems to makes places like coffin creek, hells canyon, etc… seem interesting.

  85. I have been searching for the treasure for about 4 years now. The last couple of years, I have been in the same location, just trying to narrow down where I think the treasure is located. Since I am still working on the same solution, I am not ready to disclose it, but I wanted to share some ideas I had on the poem and specifically the last stanza.

    The following is my overview of the poem:

    Stanza 1 : Forrest entering his location with chest in hand.
    Stanza 2-4: Directions to where the location is.
    Stanza 5: Forrest leaving his location having left the treasure.
    Stanza 6: Confirmation that you are in the correct location, having solved 2-4.

    As I read through stanza 6 over and over, I started asking the question, “What is Forrest wanting us to hear?” I couldn’t come up with anything solid, until I started thinking about “Your effort will be worth the cold”. Maybe Forrest is telling us that what we are listening for can only be heard in the cold. Well, my first thought was winter, but I didn’t like the idea of a seasonal solution. I then remembered in Forrest’s book that he made mention to it always being “cold” in the mountains at night. Ah! Maybe what we are to hear can only be heard at night?

    There are some creatures that you would normally only hear at night. One of those creatures is the owl. As I was reading up on the owl, I found the following statement “Cuando el tecolote canta, el indio muere” which means “When the owl cries, the indian dies”. Ah! The “brave” is the “indian” and perhaps “in the wood” is reference to “in a coffin”?

    I am not completely certain if this was Forrest’s meaning of the 6th stanza, but it fit with my solution rather well. Even if this is the correct solution to stanza 6, I don’t think without having solved the directions in stanza 2-4, it wouldn’t really help much, but I thought it might give people something to think about.

    I have considered sharing my full solution, but I am not completely certain if I am done looking and if someone else shares a similar solution, I don’t want to bring that person unwanted competition. Perhaps at something like Fennoboree, if I am able to make it, I could share my solution and if people found it worth consideration, we could form a group search!

    • Very interesting grubbder,
      Your overview is very similar to mine except for the word that is key holds the area where you need to be.
      I agree 2-4 are the directions.
      I think the word that is key is near West Yellowstone.

      • Just saw this post. Good job Grubber, and yes Sparrow, the owl is the blaze. The thing is you can’t see it unless you mirror a picture of it onto itself. Then, an owl comes out, along with a coffin with two arrows pointing to a grail. Two alligators at the bottom of the owls feet. If you look at it at a different angle, the owl becomes a jester. Confusing right? Give me your email and i’ll show you.

  86. To all searchers and feather merchants,

    The Geezer Team’s approach to finding the treasure is based upon five assumptions, three regarding information. Forrest Fenn states that everything a searcher needs to know to find the treasure is in the poem. Thus, our first assumption is that the poem is everything, it is the first level of information and the most reliable, if used correctly. When in doubt (to paraphrase the great character For-rest B Fenn Adobe or is it For-rest B Fenn Anchovy) “Use the force, Luke” … er, “Use the poem, schmuck, use the poem!”

    Our second assumption is that another source of information is the clues that Fenn has given outside the poem, via media interviews. These clues are sometimes straightforward like “hidden above 5000 feet” but often are open to interpretation and less reliable than the poem itself. For example, in an interview where he is describing what it’s like standing where the treasure is hidden, Fenn mentions the smell of pinon pine nuts, among other things. He then tries to retract it. We think he realized it was a goof because pinon pine doesn’t grow north of Colorado thus eliminating Wyoming and Montana! Many others don’t believe that and are still searching in Yellowstone.

    Our third assumption is that a final source of information is documents like TTOTC and TFTW, scrap books on websites, etc. Fenn said these documents have subtle hints but since searchers have to glean hints from the writings and there is no way of knowing if something is important to the search, they are wide open to interpretation and the least reliable.

    Our fourth assumption, given by Fenn himself, is “DON’T MESS WITH MY POEM!” which means “DON’T MESS WITH HIS POEM, DUMB HEAD!” The final assumption is DON’T MESS WITH THE WORLD EITHER, DUMB HEAD! A good example of this is “the home of Brown.” Brown is capitalized which means it is a proper noun. Many searchers believe the poem is referring to brown trout. Under the rules of capitalization, the common species name of brown is not capitalized unless it begins a sentence, or is part of proper noun like The Brown Trout Restaurant. We believe Brown refers to a person, not brown trout, brown bears, or brown worms! If this doesn’t fit your theoretical solve, then maybe your solve is incorrect. You can’t change the world (in this example, the rules of capitalization) to fit your theoretical solve! And if you think Fenn made a mistake capitalizing Brown – think again, and again, and again until you’re not a DUMB HEAD! Note the use of “theoretical.” Except for Forrest Fenn’s, there are no solutions out there, they don’t exist. A solution is a solution only if it finds the treasure, and it hasn’t been found yet. At best there are plausable theoretical solutions and at worst fantasies, whims, crackpot ideas, and such!

    We are analyzing the poem on the idea of segments, what follows then is all IOMHO!. The first leg of the search begins with BIWWWH (stanza 2, line 1) defining point A) and then PIBTHOB (stanza 2, line 4) defining point B). Now we can say that we have defined segment (A – B). Why not expect the same for the next segment (B – C)? Fenn has said the treasure is not in close proximity to a human trail. So, if we’re hiking up a gulch from the bottom of a canyon as per TBNPUYC (stanza 3,line 3), what would draw us off that trail? The answer is in stanza 3, line 4 – “Just heavy loads and water high.” We think this means to look for large boulders and a water fall and/or tumbling creek with the water source being a lake, wetland, spring, etc. higher up. Once we find this area, we have defined segement (B – C) and now have to find point D), which is the blaze.

    Here’s a potential for getting stuck because we don’t know what in the blazes the blaze is! A most puzzling part of the poem to us is the statement “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,” (stanza 4, line 1). This line doesn’t seem like a clue at all because it tells us nothing about the blaze, which is key to finding the treasure!

    So, we believe the blaze is man-made because it is unwise to think that the “perfect” hide spot would have a natural blaze in just the right place (low probability) or that fenn could find a natural blaze and move it to the right place (low probability). Ergo, Fenn had to bring a blaze in and put it in just the right place. Being man-made it should be obvious such that you’ll know it when you see it, but we do have a hunch as to what it is. And, when you see it STOP, point D) is now found and we have segment (C – D) defined. The line LQD,YQTC (stanza 4, line 2) is problematic to us since “quickly” is hard to do for geezers! We believe what Fenn means is that when the blaze is spotted, searchers will have a tendency to move toward the blaze which will move them out of position for looking down and seeing something really important, so like we said, STOP. Now, what the heck does “look quickly down” mean? Does it mean look down at your feet, look back down the trail, look south, if the blaze is high up bring your gaze down to 90 degrees, etc.? Who cares, just try them all, you’ll know it when you see it! Everything we’ve laid (not layed) out so far has been from the poem and there’s three more clues to consider, AIHGAIT (stanza 1, line 1), YEWBWTC (stanza 6, line 2), and IYABAITW (stanza 6, line 3). AIHGAIT we believe is important and know why but we’re not yet sure about the other two. However, when Fenn says “So hear me all and listen good,” we pay attention!

    The above is not a theoretical solution it is a plan on how we are going to apply the poem once we have a starting point – BIWWWH (stanza 2 line 1). To determine the starting point we have used maps, and levels 2 and 3 sources, and have a hunch where to start. Now, we have to get out into the field with “hired legs” and the camera drone in toe. As per our plan we will formulate a theroretical solution and go forth with confidence and find the treasure.

    Your most humble servants,

    The Geezer Team, Dennis Bockhaut, member

    • Good luck with that Dennis,
      Looks like you need someone with a half a brain like me to kick you geezers in the keisters.

      Jake Faulker Team, Jake Faulker, member

    • Geezers,
      I’d like to touch on one thing at this moment. { I hope Jake doesn’t correct my word touch in this sentence }

      You guys and gal, said; “…searchers will have a tendency to move toward the blaze which will move them out of position for looking down and seeing something really important, so like we said, STOP. Now, what the heck does “look quickly down” mean?”

      Could your question you ask; what the heck does look quickly down mean? actually mean stop. You said searchers would have a tendency to move towards the blaze…

      So when the blaze is found… we are told to look quickly down, as in a fast movement down and not straight, as in the direction of the blaze. To do this action at the point of seeing the blaze, doesn’t that automatically stop a searcher and forces them to look down? and not at the sight of the blaze.

      An option you haven’t mentioned climb or step up. Fenn said [ I don’t have the quote at the ready ] he step one foot and step on it again or something like that … I’ll stry to find it and post it here].
      The point is the , look quickly down action makes one stop to do this action, so IMO you answered your question. by stopping
      Now comes but tarry scant with marvel gaze… This here is the question of what to do in my mind. So far we spotted the blaze in distance, stopped by looking down, and told to tarry scant ~ lets say this means lingering a bit and if so why? why do we need to stay if we found / see the blaze in the distance? Now I’m back to the stepping thing… is there pacing or walking involved at the “point” look down? and the marvel gaze is the way to travel?

      I see you have options already… i’m just suggesting another.

      • Just offering something else to consider here. I personally don’t think “look quickly down” means to literally look quickly down (or any direction). I think “look quickly” means peek/peak. At first I couldn’t figure out how Peak fit in here. But now that I’ve analyzed the poem more, I have come to the conclusion of what the blaze is and the blaze along with “look quickly” is the name of a peak. Now I need to focus on “tarry scant”

  87. The following is my opinion. Most of us are reading the poem incorrectly. Guessing will not get anyone closer to the treasure. We have bought into the idea that if a searcher looks for the treasure physically without understanding the poem he,or she will somehow miraculously find the treasure. This will never happen. We have disabled ourselves into giving us a chance. Many searchers do not understand this,and they go with the hope that they have a chance at finding the treasure. Without studying the poem, and understanding it there is no treasure for the searcher period.

    The poem is so simple that we will kick ourselves when the dicepherer decrypts the poem. We have some much clutter in our complex brain cells that we do not give a chance to the simple thinking cells sitting on the side lines.

    Believe when I say that if the searcher does not study the poem and find out where to begin physically(not in the poem) he or she will not have a shot at finding the treasure. See the problem is that we believe in ourselves more than the poem, but if we knew more than the poem we would know where the treasure is, wouldn’t we?

    I have said it many times that if you do not let the poem lead you you will lead yourself into failure.The poem is your parent and you are it’s child. If you can not grasp this simple concept you would be better off in a park watching the planted trees rather than looking for the box. It’s all my opinion and opinion only.RC

    • I agree 100% with you RC about unless you figure out the poem you will not discover/stumble upon the chest. I “think” I have figured out how it is being hidden and how people can walk by it and never know and how it can remain for 1,000 years. Sorry I am not giving this one away. I will say this though, if Mr. Fenn were to tell you how he hid it it would eliminate HUGE chunks of the Rocky mountains. If I am right about how it is hidden then I GUARANTEE no one will be finding this chest without solving the poem!

      • gregorious, 99.999+ percent of the Rockies will be
        excluded AUTOMATICALLY by a valid solve, regardless
        of how Forrest hid the treasure chest.

        Good luck in your search. Please stay safe.

        The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

  88. Can the poem have a correct solution without names of places as an answer to a clue or reference to a clue?
    Example; The chest is hidden in the mountains north of SF. Even though, we now know that refers to the RM’s, and even more the RM’s in the now four states within the USA…is the name of the Range or individual mountains needed/necessary.
    I’ll add, other than explaining to another what we think the mountains refer to.

    • Seeker –

      It’s my opinion that the names of ranges, and mountains are not needed to solve the poem. Names of other things – like a good starting point name – are important. So I guess what I’m saying is that the poem already narrows down a starting point. So if you know where to start – why would you need to know the name of the range it is in?

      • The range name was an “example” as to why fenn didn’t mention the Rockies, but refer to them as simply mountains. it was till much later on fenn named the mountains and cut the Rockies in half.

        So another example is WWWH. Is this a named place or simply a reference to the “Many WwwH” in the Rockies and north of SF. [ i’ll even call this the first clue for this example ] a none named first clue with no specific location… however it needs to be nailed down by ‘understanding’ what it refers to and works side by side with clue two. [ the first two clues comment- fen could have just said; several have been at the first clue and walked past the other 8 clues] Is that a comment o make us think? With no true answer to what as clue is?
        So without that “understanding” of the first clue, the next clue is not known or understood why or what… even when a searcher is there.

        The point is… even when the first clue is understood correctly as the example of “many”, is the second clue, which does or might have a given named, needed to known by the name ~or~ the place itself. A canyon, A waterfall, A river, etc.

        My suggestion about … no place for the meek … to be the CD is another example… do we need to know it by the name and that is all? or do we understand that it is the ‘backbone’ of a mountain range and it purpose, more than the name we gave it.

        Simply put… can he poem be solved with a map that has no names, just land and water features – and do we force fit names to make it simpler?

        • Seeker –

          You said he named the mountains – and cut the rockies in half……….I think he named the states therefore cutting the rockies in half.

          Sometimes you ask so many questions at one time…….it hurts my brain. I think if you know the name of and history of – HOB – you wouldn’t need to know the start point as the clues follow in order and what you are really looking for is the end of the game.

          • Does it matter which he stated first, the chicken before the egg? Let’s skip the RM’s example and use what is in the poem.

            WWWH as all waters that rise up below ground. It doesn’t matter if those are hot springs or cold springs or anywhere in between… warm would be liquid in this scenario… it’s simply understanding what they are. And a none place, but a specific first clue “understanding what wwwh refers to. ”

            It would be the second clue that is needed to be at… a ‘place’. So without using names… the most unique area in of the map, We know it as YS, but the name is not needed, just the understanding. The canyon is a very large canyon with magnificent waterfalls. We know them as the upper and lower falls of the Grand canyon of YS… but the names are not needed. Just logical readings of what the clues might refer to, looking at it geographically.

            We can then use what fenn called, subtle not deliberate hints to help with the clues and what they refer to… yet are those hints even needed? I say, not so much. So if this scenario was possible… we might not need to force a “place” for the first clue, but need to know what it means, that might lead us to the second clue… the place. Simple; like most would hope. No names; to force it a location [ such as brown mt or meek mt etc. ]

            First two clues and why those who were there, didn’t understand the significance of where they were… and walked by / went pass the other clues. They wanted wwwh to be a single place and more than likely a name to match… at least in most of the comments / solves I have read.

            You’re still taking me too literally when I said he ‘named’ the mountains. I simply meant he told us the name of the mountains he referred to. it was just an example of how we should have thought that from the start and not just pick a mountain by a name or a location such as NM or CO or even one in Alberta. Again this is a different attempt to read the poem beyond the norm of the majority line of thinking, and without the possibility of forcing a location by a name. Just simply using geography as a guide, and some imagination.

          • Seeker –

            If by now, you don’t have a good starting place……..maybe your in the wrong state?
            OK – perhaps not – don’t kill the messenger..

            It’s my thought that every word in the poem should have a purpose. I think people under estimate the value of the word “AS”. To a writer – that first word is important as is the first sentence.

            I don’t think you are going to find the start point by that word – but after you have researched an area……it’s huge.

          • I think people are trying to following the clues in order when that isn’t the intent. As I mentioned in a different post, I think that numerous lines in the poem are talking about exactly the same thing/place. The problem is that we want them to be a step by step guide to the treasure and they are not. IMO

          • How do you explain this Puz,
            (47:25) Did you have nine clues before you wrote the poem or did nine clues appear after you wrote the poem? “They’re contiguous, I put one foot down & then step on it, to get to the next foot.”
            Moby Dickens Book Shop Nov 2nd, 2013
            Listen real good & you will not be puz anymore.
            I certainly see why you’re puzzled.

          • JAKE, My original post had a TYPO and if you knew me at all you would realize it was a typo because I don’t count clues. I only try to understand what the LINES in the poem are saying. I believe that some people are too busy counting clues to figure out what this poem actually says.

            Yes the clues are in consecutive order. I stated that my original post had a TYPO. I believe that the LINES many people are claiming to be clues, are not necessarily the CLUES and that many of these lines are actually talking about exactly the same thing. I think it is more important to understand the poem than to count the clues. I’m seeing people identify what they think are the clues.

            I think most folks have identified the following as “the clues”

            canyon down
            not far but too far to walk
            put in below the HOB
            no place for the meek
            end is ever drawing nigh
            no paddle up your creek
            heavy loads and water high
            if you’ve been wise and found the blaze

            I think that assumption is incorrect. Here is how I read the poem.

            I believe that WWWH is described as
            not far but too far to walk
            no place for the meek
            no paddle up your creek
            heavy loads and water high

            I also believe that if you identify the correct WWWH that you will have been wise and found the blaze. I believe I’ve done that.

            This leaves us with a question of what exactly are the CLUES. If I am correct; not far but too far to walk, no place for the meek, no paddle up your creek, and heavy loads and water high are all describing the same thing, then perhaps the “CLUES” are not in these lines.

            If all these lines have us standing in a single place, then the clues to be followed are not these lines! So then you have to figure out what the rest of the poem means to move forward as described by Fenn in his interview. If you are going to take another step forward, you have to know what the next clue is.

            Do I care what you think? NO. Because I finally have WWWH (in my opinion) and I’ve worked through the poem carefully to arrive at the BLAZE. I have offered my opinions to help others. Just because you can spout off quotes and attack others over a typo in a post does not mean you understand the poem. In the end, it is the understanding of the poem that will lead to the TC. By the way, I also don’t care much about the TC. If I find it, I will return it to Fenn or donate it to a museum. My interest is the poem and only the poem! But, to be sure the pieces of the puzzle are assembled correctly, one must find the TC. I’m focusing on the poem. I personally think there are some folks who are using the method of attacking others efforts because it is easier to attack than to figure out this poem. Might I suggest the focus be on the poem!!!

          • Well Puz,
            I didn’t think you were so sensitive to opinion & fact.
            Funny, I showed my solve to many & never had a hissy fit when someone pointed things out to me I did not see because I know they could be right.
            If I attacked, I would have just said your thinking stinks.
            I was offering actual video/audio of what Forrest has said & it appeared to contradict what you had said.
            Do expect more constructive criticism & be able to handle it.

          • Jake Faulkner- I AGREED with you so stop picking a fight over nothing. I have stated that my original post had a TYPO! The clues are consecutive and continuous as FF has stated. I have no argument there. In my original post, I mistated what I meant. I meant to say that the LINES do not necessarily guide you to different locations on the map. Now that I have figured out WWWH, I can see that this “place” (WWWH) is not far, but too far to walk, no place for the meek, heavy loads and water high, etc. So in my opinion these lines are talking about the same thing and do not indicate separate places on a map. Hence, no need to take a step in any direction yet.

            So if you wish to disagree with what I am saying, that is fine. But focus on what I actually said instead of twisting my words. If you were actually understood the poem, you would know I am right (IMO)

            I believe you don’t take an actual step forward until you get to the BLAZE.

            Anyway, I don’t have time for this petty nonsense. I’m working on the poem. Now I’ve found the blaze, I need to figure out the next step.

          • Good luck Puz in figuring the next step.
            Are you saying WWWH is the first clue?
            I know which lines your using to know WWWH.
            Your typos are just like everyone else’s here.
            We all make mistakes & I see where your coming from.

            One of the probs I have with your method is the words in the poem that point to WWWH. Would not the words or phrases be considered a clue considering you have to figure them out.
            Example: too far to walk, is the same place as WWWH along with the other lines you mentioned. wouldn’t “too far too walk” be considered a clue to figure out to point to WWWH?
            Just curious.

          • I do not think the lines which clarify WWWH are individual clues. If they were, then we would be discounting the importance of stanzas 1, 5, and 6. Dont you think stanzas 1, 5, and 6 might contain clues as well? Why cant one clue, WWWH, have several lines to describe it. I only know what the poem tells me and I see multiple lines describing WWWH. If you knew my opinion of WWWH, you would agree with me.

            In addition, I think that each line that describes WWWH builds upon what we learn in the previous line. So in that way, the lines are consecutive. Without the info in one line, you don’t understand the next line. But several lines are describing and talking about the exact same thing.

          • Puz,
            Bare with me here.
            So, your saying that all those lines point to WWWH.
            They’re consecutive & are after WWWH is in the poem. But they point backwards in the poem to WWWH. That doesn’t seem in order to me.
            That doesn’t make sense to me. Please elaborate.
            Does each line need to be figured out individually before the next line?
            So we need to know the line before the line after to build on the next line. Correct?
            I’m just looking for a logical opinion here without emotion involved if that’s possible.
            I’m trying to figure out why these lines AFTER WWWH could be used for WWWH.

          • Let’s try this Jake.

            Suppose I tell you I hid a treasure in “The Imaginary Forrest” and you know where “The Imaginary Forrest” is located but it’s big and too much ground to locate it knowing just that. (Think ‘somewhere in the Rocky Mountains).

            I’m not poetic so my clues wont be either. Here goes. Hope FF will forgive me borrowing some words for my illustration.

            Begin it at a tree in “The Imaginary Forest”
            Put in (into the forrest) below the HOB
            Look for the tallest tree
            It is a Pine
            But not a Ponderosa
            It has an Eagles nest on the top
            And a rabbit burrow at its base.
            Stand next to the Rabbit burrow facing East.
            Look for a large grey boulder . . .

            So this Imaginary “poem” of mine is directing you to begin at the largest pine in the “Imaginary Forrest”. The additional clues help you identify this tree from others that are close in size. You must locate the one with an Eagles nest and a rabbit burrow. All these clues identify a single tree. (One clue).

            Once you have located it, you must stand next to the rabbit burrow facing East. You are still at the same tree. But you are going to look toward a large grey boulder. (Another clue). You aren’t actually walking anywhere until my “poem” directs you to the Boulder which is a separate clue from the tree.

            Does this help? Someone else on this blog had a poetry term for the way FF writes. He has a habit of stating something (in his book) and then following up with clarification. Maybe the person who named this writing technique will jump in here with a comment.

            Does this make sense to you Jake?

            All I’m saying is that I don’t think each line in the poem is one step in the solve. Several lines can describe one spot.

          • Puz,
            Let’s try this instead because you didn’t answer my question.
            Did you have to figure out “not far but too far to walk”?
            Did you have to figure out “no place for the meek”
            Did you have to figure out “no paddle up your creek”
            Did you have to figure out “heavy loads and water high”
            If you answer yes to any of these questions, you may want to think these are clues in them selves.
            I know they all point to WWWH, but if you have to figure them out, then I would conclude you are using them as clues to point to a master clue WWWH.
            If there are 8 more clues after your master clue, you are running out of text & will have to force fit some words or phrases to complete the 9 clues.
            If you do not answer this time in a yes or no to the Q’s I have asked.
            I will consider you to be illogical in your thinking & will ignore most of your comments & realize you cannot answer straightforward questions without hypothetical responses.
            I’m sure you don’t want me commentating on your comments anyway.

          • I sincerely was trying to answer your questions Jake Faulker. But, obviously I’m not going to come right out and tell you “where warm waters halt”. So I used an illustration to try to show you the way phrases following “where warm waters halt” could still clarify “where warm waters halt”.

            I didn’t realize it was yes or no answers you were after.

            You asked, “Did you have to figure out “not far but too far to walk”?”
            My answer is NO. Once I identified “where warm waters halt”, it was obvious that this place also fits, “not far but too far to walk”

            You asked, “Did you have to figure out “no place for the meek””
            My answer is NO. At first I didn’t realize that where warm waters halt was “no place for the meek”. After I thought about it, I realized that “where warm waters halt” is “no place for the meek”. So it was a matter of thinking about it a little bit before I understood how “no place for the meek” actually is descriptive of “where warm waters halt” So I did not see this connection at first, because I had to analyze it a little. I didn’t have to figure it out. Just had to think about it a little more to see the connection.

            You didn’t mention “Put in below the home of Brown”. I see this as not describing WWWH. I think “Put in below the home of Brown” helps us to identify this specific place WWWH from all the other places WWWH which are North of Sante Fe. They all fit the same description so there has to be a way to identify this specific place.

            You also didn’t mention, “There’ll be no paddle up your creek”. NO I didn’t have to figure that one out either. It clarifies WWWH very nicely.

            You also didn’t mention, “Just heavy loads and water high”. NO Didn’t have to figure that one out either. It is such a clear definition of WWWH. What a creative definition of WWWH!

            You said, “I know they all point to WWWH, but if you have to figure them out, then I would conclude you are using them as clues to point to a master clue WWWH.” NO, I do not see them as clues pointing to the “master clue”. I see them as clarification of “where warm waters halt”. Not a separate clue that you move from place to place to arrive at, but a more specific definition of “where warm waters halt”, all describing the same place.

            You said, “If there are 8 more clues after your master clue, you are running out of text & will have to force fit some words or phrases to complete the 9 clues.”
            NO. That statement implies that you don’t see clues in stanza 1. I’m certain (IMO) that stanza 1 is very valuable in adding clues to this poem. Am I going to tell you what those clues are? NO

            You said, “If you do not answer this time in a yes or no to the Q’s I have asked.
            I will consider you to be illogical in your thinking & will ignore most of your comments & realize you cannot answer straightforward questions without hypothetical responses.” I’m sorry if my “hypothetical response” was confusing to you. It was intended to illustrate without actually giving you the answers to the poem. I’ve given a lot of hints, but I’m not handing out answers!

            Stanzas 2 & 3 contain the lines/phrases that I’ve listed above. That leaves stanzas 1, 4, 5, 6. These stanzas contain 16 lines. And then there is “take it in the canyon down” and “the end is ever drawing nigh”. That is more than enough lines to provide you with 7 more clues.

            I have found that (IMO) TTOTC contains “hints” that are more easily identified AFTER you figure out the answers in the poem. It was not until I figured out WWWH that I realized that the chapter “The Totem Pole Caper” was a very creative description of WWWH (IMO). The writing is brilliant! I also realized (IMO) that “Looking for Lewis & Clark” contains brilliantly written hints that help confirm WWWH. In addition, “My War for Me” contains brilliant hints masterfully written (IMO). Several people have suggested that the chapter, “Important Literature” also contains “hints”. I saw the “hints” only after I figured out WWWH and I don’t know if anyone else has identified them correctly (IMO).

            Well, I’ve answered your questions. It is my opinion that I know WWWH. That does not mean that I am standing at the TC. It means I believe I’m making progress.

            My opinion of WWWH fits every single statement Fenn has made in regard to WWWH. It is easy enough that I think everyone knows it, but they dont’ know they know it. It certainly could be described as a “why didn’t I think of that” idea.

            I’m having fun with the poem, but I’m not done with it. I actually surprised myself when I figured out WWWH (IMO) Now I’m working from “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze.”

            Happy poem solving everyone!

          • Aaah Puz,
            I see, that is a much clearer explanation & get your point without giving away too much.
            I do appreciate you sharing this with me & appears to be another good way to look at the poem. I hope when your done, you end up with 9 clues though.
            Let me know when you have figured out “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze.”
            Sometimes a misunderstanding & error can send me down the wrong path.
            Oh well, It’s pretty clear & seems doable.
            A good nights rest doesn’t hurt either.

          • Jake- You must have missed my comment in my original post (in this discussion) about the blaze. Knowing WWWH tells you the blaze. It’s one step that leads to another. Assuming my WWWH is correct, and I believe it is, then I also know the blaze. They belong together. Wherever this WWH location exists, so does a blaze. Of course you have to have the right WWWH to fit the rest of the poem. As I mentioned previously, “look quickly” in my opinion means peek/peak.

            Now I’m ready to move on in the poem. Let’s see; IMO I’ve got “gone alone in there” “with my treasures bold”, WWWH, HOB?, blaze, “peak”. I don’t count clues because it’s pointless if you can’t solve the whole poem. But it looks like I have more than a dozen sentences left to work on.

            Happy Puzzling!

    • Seeker, some places to which the clues refer are identified
      by name on a “good map”. This is important to a valid solve.

      The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

  89. In the not so recent past I considered a possible different interpretation for the first line of the poem. I looked at it as Forrest setting the broad location for where to begin.
    My theory was in the word “there”…
    “As I have gone alone in there”

    My interpretation-“As I have gone alone into a place called there”

    I thought it possible that “there” was a location that he went alone into..
    Perhaps a canyon or a cave known as “there”.
    i.e. There Canyon…or There Cave…or There Basin..or There National Forrest…
    Of course I couldn’t find one…

    So I considered the possibility that Forrest purposely misspelled the word “there” as he has done with other words in his book…
    Words that sound alike but have different meanings and/or spellings are called homophones…and we have a “homophone” page but I thought this page might get more eyes so I have placed this idea here…since it is about the poem…

    I looked at Theyre and Their…still nothing..
    So I started fooling with the spelling…
    I tried Thayer…something back east but nothing I could find in the RMs.
    I tried a few other variations on there as well…nothing.

    Even if I found something the problem of capitalization persisted..
    For instance a Thayer Canyon would have the Thayer capitalized…
    Forrest did not capitalize the T in “there”.
    So it seemed less likely that “there” could stand for a proper name…

    After a few weeks of playing with that theory I gave up on it…

    It still seems possible to me that Forrest is setting the stage in the first line of the poem …and every so often I stare at that first line trying to understand if Forrest is targeting a place to begin. A place where we will find warm waters halting when we get in “there”.


    • Dal,

      The Geezer Team believes that the first line of the poem is an extremely important clue, but to be used towards the end of the search. We think it partly describes the hiding place as a small cave-like or grotto-like geological structure large enough to hold the treasure chest and himself!

      The Geezer Team Dennis Bockhaut, member

    • Dal,

      An idea that I can’t seem to shake is that Forrest is referring to his own mind with his thoughts and memories in “As I have gone alone in there”, only he can go to that mental place.

      Forrest said to look at the big picture, Could it be a literal big picture? I see the outline of Montana as an old man looking down reflecting, remembering his bold and old memories.

      I haven’t spent enough time with this idea to form a solve but I do see it as being a possible first clue. Start in Montana? Have you ever considered this?
      All IMO

    • Dal, it’s refreshing to find that SOMEONE (finally!) is paying some
      attention to capitalization. I haven’t found anything very profound
      (to me) or significant (to me) in the first line of the poem that
      would help me find the TC.

      My solution of the poem pretty much ignores the entire fifth stanza. Not that FF’s words are meaningless, but my solve
      of directions to the TC didn’t depend on that stanza.

      Good luck in your search. Please be safe.

    • Dal – In my opinion the first stanza of the poem does describe a general area but it was not till after I found what I think are other clues before I realized this. Line 4, first stanza – And hint of riches new and old. The area I’m searching has many things old and some things new. That also seems to fit with what Forrest stated when he said most of the places the clues refer to were around when he was a kid.

  90. I think when you know where ‘brave and in wood” is, you’ll know where ‘there’ is. Been tossing that ‘title’ thing around for some time now.

    • ‘title’ – tilt. There, hear, here…let me bend your ear. From the internet: “Best Answer: bending an ear….

      when one wanted to talk to another about specific things, the speaker would speak closer to the listeners ear. Sometimes even the listener would hold their hand up to their ear for better clarification of what was being said. The listeners hand would bend their own ear often enough to term this phrase.

      The ear works like a funnel, bouncing sound back and forth until the sound actually vibrates the ear’s drum. If the external ear is bent in different directions the sound travels differently to reach the ear’s drum…sometimes bouncing the sound away from the ear’s drum if pointed in the correct direction.

      It’s not the size of one’s ear that makes one a better “hear-er” it is the shape.
      _illyanna “

      • Hi Life… Grammatically (and I am no grammarian so bear with me) I think ‘Listen good’ implies, hear the sounds, and listen well means understand the words … so I think there is some sound-alike stuff going on here. Also, list is a selvage edge or border. Hear me- Herma – a border marker, border, boarder, boards, wood? Hear-horn-herald-Harold-handles (like ears on a jug)… here-here, or is it hear-here? So many roads to take down. But since memoirs are reflections, it may be a mirror sound, or an echo …. see what I mean?

        If the poem is circular, the 6th stanza actually precedes the first stanza. and ‘brave and in the wood’ may be a reference to a title of the place that he had “gone alone in there”.

        Its all good to me, I’m armchair bound. Good luck.

        • OS2 – when you say, “If the poem is circular, the 6th stanza actually precedes the first stanza. and ‘brave and in the wood’ may be a reference to a title of the place that he had “gone alone in there”.

          I believe that you are 100% correct.

          TRY to STAY SAFE and good luck even from your armchair.


          • Circularity may fit well with any philosophy
            being expressed in the poem, but I fail to
            see how circularity will help a searcher to
            find the TC.

            My solve doesn’t get into philosophy at
            all — at least related to things like “the
            cycle of life”, “death”, “karma”, etc.

            Except for the need for a little imagination, the interpretation of the
            poem was pretty straightforward to me,
            starting at the beginning of stanza 1,
            and going strictly in order — without
            trying any fancy stuff. In fact, though,
            it did take a couple hundred hours of thinking / “head-scratching”, because
            each clue had me testing perhaps as
            many as ten (or so) candidates for
            interpretation. And each clue had to
            be tested vis-a-vis the adjacent clue(s),
            to ensure there were no incompatibilities.

            I think that too many folks are “over-
            thinking” the poem. They should each
            show it to a young teenager, or else to
            someone about FF’s age, who would
            have been a young teenager at the
            same time he was. This is quite important to a valid solve.

            The above is just my opinion.
            Yours may differ. Please stay safe.

        • I am completely confused about what either of you are talking about with the grammar here. But, you did mention “border”. So let me just toss out that the chapter. “Important Literature” in TTOTC talks about Fenn going to Borders Bookstore.

  91. I’m at a disadvantage in that I have to work completely from memory. I’m glad I memorized the poem, not being able to access much written literature. But even from memory this poem is really throwing me a loop.

    “But cherries canned with marble glaze”

    I’m led to think that perhaps the treasure is in some sort of orchard from this, but cannot really be sure. I’ll just have to keep thinking more about it I guess.

    • Joe

      Coincidentally, ‘marble glazed cherries’ are commonly known throughout the world to be the largest canned export product of Albania.

      ..and it’s North of Santa Fe!

      You might be onto something really BIG there mate!

      be sure to send us all a postcard

  92. Parallels between Evetts’ poem and Forrest’s.

    (I DID do a search to see if this has already been suggested, and all I found was an expired Reddit. Forgive me if I missed it and this is not new.)

    COURAGE wears a crimson coat

    Trimmed in TRAPPINGS BOLD
    And with my TREASURES BOLD

    KNOWLEDGE dons a dress of note

    Fame’s cloth is GOLD
    And hint of RICHES new and old

    Begin it where warms waters halt
    And take it in the canyon down
    Not far, but too far to walk
    Put in below the home of Brown

    From there it’s no place for the meek
    The end is drawing ever high;
    There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
    Just heavy loads and water high

    I see no correlation with the blaze stanza

    So why is it that I must go
    And leave my trove for all to seek?
    The answers I already know
    I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak

    So hear me all and listen good
    Your effort will be worth the cold.
    If you are brave and in the wood
    I give you title to the gold.
    I believe that last line is referring to Forrest creating the poem/search.
    Weaving the tale that becomes the fabric of our (searching) lives.
    In this interpretation, WE are Courage, Knowledge, and Fame roaming in search of the blaze

    Note that there is nothing about the blaze (MOO)
    I don’t think there are any hints here, but……
    I think Forrest would have fun fashioning his poem after Evetts’,
    and it would take some time, and probably numerous revisions

    My Opinion Only (MOO)

    • Joseph…thanks…seems an obvious modelling/mirroring both conceptually and using the same words at times…Also lends some perspective which may assist in determining the gravity of certain chase poem keywords IMO. Also IMO BLAZE may be related to WATERS HIGH and able to withstand weathering for 1000 years into our future. Bravo

      • mensan_fennsan, the blaze, as well as all the other
        clue-related “landmarks”, must all be able to last for
        1,000 years. The blaze is definitely within 2 miles of where “waters high” was physically and literally
        observed (on a BOTG search). I won’t elaborate
        more on this right now.

        All of the above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

        Good luck in your search. Please stay safe.

  93. I just do not understand why we don’t blog more about the actual poem than anything else. Nothing else matters if the searchers wants the gold. When I started my search for the treasure I thought that I could search for it physically hoping I could somehow come across it by chance, but then I started listening to Mr. Fenn. That’s when I realized the poem is more than what we think it is. So I started analyzing it little by little, like a school project. Yes at first I got frustrated like most of us, but I did not not give up. Then I found out that what Mr. Fenn suggested when he recited a piece of the poem where nothing is what it seems.

    That being said it is my opinion that there is no need for a map, and she,or he whoever finds the treasure will be as sure as one can be as to the precise location of the chest. There is no ambiguity about the poem only our unwillingness to crack it. Stubborness can be just as bad as it is good. If something is not working out some of us still do it the same way over, and over again. It is the misconceptions we have about words, and their definitions that are stopping us from moving forward.

    As I have said before the reason why searchers have gotten the first two clues correct is because they have already been there, within a few feet from the treasure chest, and since we do not know what we are looking for the other clues are neglected which by the way are inconsequential if the first clue is not found. Yes what I am saying is that clue number 2 is of no importance if clue 1 is not found, and clue 3 is of no importance if 2 is not found. Searchers do not understand that it is nearly impossible,or impossible to crack clues from 2 to 9 if number 1 is not attained. There is no room for guessing in the poem, if that’s the case,the searchers are wrong about the location of the chest. All this is my opinion and opinion only. RC.

    • RC. I hear ya and what you say seems very reasonable. But you give no actual proof. It is as if youre saying ” just trust me i know what im talking about!” You mention searchers dont understand. Throw me a bone. Help me to understand your logic


    • RC –

      I realize what you wrote is your opinion – just a little heads up here –
      FF said we should use a map as one of the tools available to us. (not in those words) – so by not using a map – you are simply limiting yourself. Why would you even want do that?

      • I have to agree with RC that we should ” blog more about the actual poem than anything else. Nothing else matters if the searchers want the gold.”

        I too think that there is more discussion about what has been said outside of the poem rather than what is in the poem. We have been told by Fenn that the poem, and a map is all we need. Personally, I also think too many people are starting with the map and in my opinion, the map isn’t needed until you figure out a good portion of the poem. Some of the first answers in the poem are easier to understand if you put the poem aside and just think, in my opinion. I came to this conclusion because the poem says, “the answers I already know”. What answers? That is what we need to figure out and answer before we get that map out. If we do, in my opinion, the poem will tell us the spot on the map that we need to start. I think that if we focus on the map too soon, we will miss the “answers”.

        While Fenn has said that the book “can help” and contains “hints” “if you can recognize them”. I personally do not believe that the “hints” can be understood until you figure out the “answers” in the poem. I believe that the “hints” are easily recognized once you find the “answers” in the poem. Then the “hints” will confirm that you are on the right path. I’m about halfway through the “answers” I think. Fenn said to read the book, and then read the poem over and over (how many times did he say?), and then read the book again. I know people who are trying to solve the poem by what they read in the book and I think that is backwards. In my opinion, the “hints” in the book can only be recognized once you find the “answers” in the poem and then you will be confident enough to move forward.

      • @ Inthechaseto when you plan for vacations do you know where to go first, and then you look at a map on how to get there, or do you look at a map,and then decide where you are going? I do not know how else to respond.

        • RC – I’ve recently came to the same (possible) conclusion. The clues (when analyzed correctly) specificlly tell us where the treasure is, and the only reason for the map is to get from one’s location to the treasure?

    • OK RC, I agree with most of what you’re saying… Heck I’ve been preaching most of this for as long as I can recall. But I agree with William… Give some kind of supporting information or examples… especially if you do want actual conversations about the poem.

      All I see is you handing us a ball and telling us nothing about it. Do we throw it, kick it, bounce it, roll it…? If you want us to play with you, ya gonna need to add a bit more to the game.
      I’m all filled up on fortune cookies… lets get some exerciser to burn off all those calories.

    • RC, I think FF said within about 200 feet, not within “a few feet”.
      The terrain is rugged, and greatly varied with what’s there. In
      my opinion, you’d have to be within about twenty feet of the TC
      to have a ghost of a chance finding it. But otherwise I agree
      with everything you’ve just said.

      The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

      Good luck in your search. Please give safety a high priority.

  94. No Jake is nothing like that. I don’t post for my own personal amusement even though I may sometimes come across like that. I draw my information from the poem,and the poem only. Nothing else matters in the search. Not even hints for hints are only empty words with no significance whatsoever if there is no starting point. Why is the first clue so significant? Because if a searcher finds the first clue she, or he has found the treasure. But the searcher has to be sure what the clue is, and not guess for guessing is for the adventure seeker. That’s why Mr. Fenn cannot give more information, and he sometimes seems vague with his answers, and he does this porposedly. If clues had weight I would give the first clue 99% of the weight, and the second one .9%, and the third one.009%, and so on, and so forth. We ,and I say we because I include myself, tend to look at the poem as something that can be figured out in one evening, but then when we try again, and again it becomes impossible. Well I say this if we think the poem cannot be deciphered then we are right, but if we think it can be solved then we are right as well. I am not trying to endoctrinate anybody but when I see searchers stepping away from the task at hand I just get involved. Our attention span has been shortened by all the new technology that when someone is trying to make heads or tails about the poem they get a text message which breaks their concentration. So they lose their train of thought.

    I know some searchers find me annoying just because the horse is already dead and I am still hitting it so as to make it look like puree. So why do I sound so repetitive ? Because I think it matters that I do. I do not know if Mr. Fenn has said the following, and I do not know if he ever will but I am going to post anyways. The specific WWWH does not matter if you do not have the starting point for it is my opinion that WWWH is of no consequence if you do not know what, and where to look. This is my opinion, and I welcome your comments.RC.

    • Has anyone ever entered the carved rectangular door way that is opposite Bear creek near Gardner? Its carved into the rock across the Yellowstone from the mouth of the creek.

    • Now here is something I can work with…
      RC~ “. I do not know if Mr. Fenn has said the following, and I do not know if he ever will but I am going to post anyways. The specific WWWH does not matter if you do not have the starting point for it is my opinion that WWWH is of no consequence if you do not know what, and where to look”

      While I agree with this premise RC, this is an article that “claims” to contradict your comment.

      ***An important clue
      One thing Fenn will say is that most people are missing the most important clue; “begin it where warm waters halt”. When you solved this clue, he shared, and the others will fall into place. “If you don’t know ‘where warm water halts,’ Fenn said, “you don’t have anything.” It’s not much, but it’s a start.***

      The reading of this article sounds like the opinion of the interviewer. I don’t ever recall ‘hearing’ fenn say this.
      But IF it is at all accurate… what does that do to your thought; “The specific WWWH does not matter if you do not have the starting point…” ?

      • I do not trust any article for there can be misunderstandings. I only trust the poem Seeker. So I stand on firm ground, and stick to what I am saying. The searcher will not be able to solve any clue if they are not given a place to start.My own opinion. RC.

        • I’m not sure I agree with the “Place” to start, as you said.

          Fenn has used the term ‘know where to start’ and ‘start at the beginning’ and I’ll add that searchers have been at the first two clues… which might leave an opening that the first clue is not so much a place, but some kind of knowledge or information needed to work with clue two, which could be the place, but not know if clue one is not understood. [ what ever those clues actually are ].

          Yep, I don’t hold that interview to be completely accurate… the media hasn’t had a great track record for accuracy. This would be one of those times I would like to see if fenn would clarify this interview and the quotes.

          But here is what itches my brain about the first clue… Fenn said we “ignore” the first clue. As well as, he is surprised no one has mentioned one important possibility [ to his knowledge ]
          You have to wonder if those two comments are related.

          • Seeker said, “which might leave an opening that the first clue is not so much a place, but some kind of knowledge or information needed to work with clue two, which could be the place, but not know if clue one is not understood”

            I agree with you Seeker. I strongly believe that we don’t even need the map until we work through several clues. I think we are looking for “answers” and not necessarily places at first. The poem says, “the answers I already know”. In my opinion, we need answers, not places to get started. I think I have several of the answers. I think that many who are looking at maps, are overlooking “answers”. And many who have BOTG haven’t got the answers yet. But, that is my opinion. I’m curious how many others out there agree with this idea and how many think they have some “answers”?

            Specifically, how many believe they have the answer to WWWH? and I’m not talking about a place that can be pinpointed on a map of the Rocky Mountains.

          • Puzzled, you ask how many believe they have the answer to WWWH. How many believe? I don’t believe anyone can answer that question (how many) with any certainty. I believe that I, for one, have WWWH figured out. I happen to believe that I am able to pinpoint the particular WWWH, f alludes to in the poem, on a map… All said in my opinion, of course.

          • Slurbs, Can you pinpoint WWWH on the map simply with a single answer to WWWH? Or does it take more information in the poem to help you define the correct search area on the ma. I think it takes more answers to be certain you have the correct spot, but curious if you agree. And do you believe you also have HOB?

          • Puzzled, recall how f knew the pattern ants use to climb a tree (or wwhatever it was)? As I recall, f knows the climbing pattern of ants because of how much time he spent outdoors. That is how I got to my understanding of WWWH. When I first had gone through WWWH, I had not realized it partially because the water was not completely warm. I viewed this more along the line of Where Cold Can Create Chaos. The next time I encountered WWWH, I had not realized it because of some other preparations I had taken care of during my planning for my search (and you can call me crazy). I guess Warm Water did not Halt at the time because it didn’t know it had to. This reminds me of Bugs Bunny walking off a cliff and not falling because he had not been taught about gravity.
            HOB… Being that I have put in below the HOB (IMO) several times, I’d say yes. Putting in below the HOB has been scary at times, but sometimes a man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do. Right? Preparedness has a way of calming fears.
            I hope I wrote this comment well. I don’t intend on proofreading as usual. I also hope my thoughts are being relayed properly. All of this should be taken as being my opinion. If you can find a misspelled word in all of this, you get extra points. Forgive my incoherence. I’m up way past my bedtime.

          • Slurbs,
            You have definitely “puzzled” me with this comment, “I guess Warm Water did not Halt at the time because it didn’t know it had to.” I will be mulling this over for a while.

          • IMO, I have read many people’s search for Indulgence stories where they found WWWH. But, they were not at the correct WWWH (IMO). How unfortunate.

          • Puzzled,

            The question I would like to ask… where did anyone get there reference for WWWH?
            I think there would be a lot of different answers and that is perplexing to me. Some may say the book, others the poem, some may say SB’s or another authors works or paintings etc.

            My examples will be two reading of the poem which are posted here… One is the thought of who is I in the first stanza.
            The next reading would be a hint from the book, but only in an overall thought and not a spot… the poem did that part.

            There was a recent Q&A regarding the lack of background information. Let for get maps, little Indy, elevations etc.

            Is there truly anyways you can hand the poem to someone and just say… solve this poems 9 clues and there is a chest full of gold waiting for you? Nothing more.

            Two thing come to mind;
            1. The rainbow. [ in the intro with the 9 clues]
            2. The background of why.

            In both 1 and 2, I think they might be connected, but lets say rainbow is gone as well…
            without knowing the why, can the poem be solve? and if not, what is it about the background that is critical to know?

            Would we know the answers in stanza 5?
            Would we know who I is in that stanza?
            Is the question itself telling us we need to know more to solve the poem?

            Each question that was ask to fenn about what information was needed… none mentioned or even eliminated the background. Let me emphasize “background info”… the why factor… and not so much the stories. We’re missing something… I won’t pretend to know what it is, but there is something we are overlooking.

          • You ask very good questions that get us all to think Seeker.

            I can’t tell you how others arrived at WWWH. I can tell you I did what FF told us to do. In the FF interview on May 27th he said, “Its Not a matter of trying. Its a matter of thinking”. Read the poem, read the book because there’s some hints in the book that will help you with clues in the poem.”

            So I put away the map and just “thought”. The following is MY OPINION. As I thought, I realized that there is an actual place where warm waters halt. It can’t be seen on a map of the Rocky Mountains. But it can help us arrive at more of the answers needed as we study the poem. Working from WWWH, to the next answer, and the next, eventually leads to a place on the map. The poem tells us, “the answers I already know”. So it is answers we seek. But it takes patience and lots of thinking to get those answers and then put them together to find a place on the map.

            Seeker asked, “What is it that no one, to Fenns uncertain knowledge, are we overlooking?” I know that many people have shared with FF their search locations. I suspect that not all of them have shared the specific reasons why they search certain areas. So possibly someone has considered what FF refers to in “nobody to my uncertain knowledge”. I do know a few things that nobody else has considered. I’m sure others have ideas too. So, it is entirely possible that somebody by now has considered the thing FF was not sure anyone had considered.

            It sure seems to me that a lot of people are “trying”, but as Fenn says, “”Its Not a matter of trying. Its a matter of thinking”. So just maybe it would be beneficial to stop trying so much and start thinking some more. Just a thought.

            As Fenn has said that there are hints in the book that will help us with clues in the poem, I think I’ve found some of those hints. I also think that the hints are easy to identify once you have found answers in the poem. I was stunned to re-read The Totem Cafe’ Caper after I had come up with my answer for WWWH. Suddenly I could see that the story was describing something else completely. I think the stories in the book are confirmation that you have found the right answer to clues in the poem. Once you have the right answer, you understand what the story is really talking about. There is so much more to the stories than what you see the first time you read them. It took a real master to write so creatively as to hide the original message with an entertaining and meaningful story.

            I think we need to follow Fenn’s advice, “Its a matter of thinking”. We need to start with that. IMO

          • Seeker, I forgot to answer your question about the rainbow. I don’t think the rainbow leads to the solution of the poem. But, I am certain (imo) that the answer to WWWH leads you to the rainbow. If you know WWWH, you will understand.

          • You’re on the right track Seeker. He has given everything needed to figure out WWWH. I know where to start imo.

            I think I know the blaze but finding the hidey spot after that is no picnic.

            “If you can find a fish already on your hook you needn’t go fishing, right?”

          • Hey Puzzled,

            When it come to that quote you mentioned… “trying to thinking”… I agree that many jump the gun imo. Trying to stomp out clues without possibly understanding [ thinking ] about the “WhatIFs” fenn also mentioned we should think about.
            We have been told that it’s more likely the poem will be solved by imagination over knowledge… warned us we should know beforehand of what is needed..etc.
            This is what I believe that fenn meant by getting back in the box… don’t jump he gun until you have what is needed to track your way to the chest.

            So If you don’t mind, I like to ask you this question. How do you think a searcher can be reasonably certain they have the correct or most of the needed information beforehand?
            I ask you here only because we have talked about this before, and I would like to get other to chime in.

            This seems to be very important.. that… “why didn’t I think of that before” moment.
            The moment that the light-bulb goes on and one says… Ah ha!

          • Seeker, you asked puzzled: “How do you think a searcher can be reasonably certain they have the correct or most of the needed information beforehand?” I hope you don’t mind if I offer a few suggestions here.

            Firstly, I don’t believe there is any filler in the poem. Everything is there for a reason, and so if you haven’t figured it all out, you probably won’t find the treasure. That’s the mistake I made – not having every last phrase pinned down and verified before searching.

            Secondly, if the solutions to each clue don’t fall into place one after the other, right up to the end, then something’s amiss. I strongly believe that the clues “paint a picture” that is contiguous and compelling. On my last search, I paid too much attention to hints and not enough attention to the final clues that demand acuity in “peripheral vision.”

            Thirdly, you really do need to look at alternative word definitions, IMO: nothing particularly outlandish, but let imagination mingle with those alternatives. That way, you begin to see the “big picture” emerging.

            Fourthly, and most importantly, if the words lead you to the same place as the numbers, I think you’re on to a winner!

            Overall, I do think that imagination is king, and (as RC suggested) you need to let the poem take the lead, so that it shows you the way. Struggling to force the puzzle pieces together doesn’t work, as I have learned to my cost. You almost need to relax and let it happen – and I’m the world’s worst at taking a back seat to anyone or anything!

            All this means nothing but conjecture without the chest in my hands, but I think the above approach is beginning to pay off for me (as you would hope after more than four years of pondering six stanzas!).

            As I type, I’m trying to think of something concrete to offer that illustrates what I’m saying but won’t give too much away. The following is maybe the best I can do:
            After establishing WWWH, you need to be extremely imaginative and open when reading the remainder of the words in stanza 2. Although HOB is easily identifiable, IMO, there are hidden meanings in many of the words in those few lines that will pinpoint with great accuracy the specific place that is vitally important to identify before you head off where the meek don’t go. Without that precision, guided by your imaginative interpretation, you could be just enough off-target to miss the blaze later on. However, if you get that correct, along with stanza 3, the path confirms the blaze.

            Again, this is just my view, but sufficiently confirmed in my own mind both by my discoveries and by Forrest’s tangential comments that I have had no reason to alter any part of it for the last nine months, despite failing to find the treasure. That may sound like confirmation of the well-known test for insanity, but it’s what happens after the blaze that I paid insufficient attention to – everything to that point is very straightforward and verifiable.

            After the blaze, real imagination is called for, IMO. I had way too tight a mind in respect of that until a few weeks ago. Now, I laugh when I look at what the poem’s telling me. And the reason I have confidence is that, whereas my imagination may be faulty, the numbers don’t lie (at least I hope not!!!).

          • Voxpops, I agree almost 100% with your well thought out statement. The only thing I don’t understand is “the numbers” you mention. I’ve worked through about half the poem and I don’t believe there are “numbers” involved. Would you care to share more about “numbers”, Im not looking for a hint. Just curious what you are saying. I agree completely with everything else you have said.

          • Puzzled, you aren’t alone – I get the impression most people think I’m nuts for believing numbers are involved!

            A long, long time ago, Forrest quoted part of a searcher’s email in one of the Scrapbooks indicating that the lady in question had done the math and so might be successful. I’m going off fading memory here, but someone should remember which article I’m referring to.

            The other thing I would say is, unless the search is contained in one very small area (as some believe), how the heck would you be able to pinpoint a spot a few feet wide without coordinates?

          • voxpops,
            Here is the quote you refer to

            Just cause you will probably get a laugh…i spent hours last night with those numbers below…i added them, multiplied them, found a pattern, try latitudes, hardshad #, morse code, applied it to the alphabet, searched zip codes, elevations, phone codes etc…dreamt of numbers and woke up this morning and said. If Hegben was that deep it would reach China and have a drainage hole, all the water would leak out and if you did plunk it at Hegbens depth then I could just walk around and find it. Giggles.”

            “Here’s a lady who may find the treasure because she has done the math and knows exactly where it is. f”

            As I explained in another recent post, I really think Fenn was just having some fun with this lady who clearly was laughing at herself for the extreme lengths she had taken to arrive at a solution to the poem.

            As far as your comment, “The other thing I would say is, unless the search is contained in one very small area (as some believe), how the heck would you be able to pinpoint a spot a few feet wide without coordinates”

            I think the poem walks us right through the exact details to arrive at the precise location of the chest. Fenn didn’t exactly give coordinates to this specific spot, but he did give specific instructions. This is my opinion of course. But, I read two different types of instructions in this poem, or two different focal points. The best way I can describe it is that the poem instructions have a wide focus (WWWH) and also a very narrow focus (where the chest is). I think the instructions to both the wide focus and the narrower focus are intertwined in the writing of the poem. Obviously I don’t have it completely solved or I would be returning the bracelet to Fenn right now. But, I do think I understand the poem up to the point of the blaze.

            The only coordinates that I have heard Fenn give are the specific coordinates of the altitude where the chest is located. Above 5,000 feet but below 10,200 feet. This statement seems to confuse people. I don’t think it is confusing at all if you understand WWWH. Kind of an interesting hint in my opinion.

          • You may well be right, Puzzled, but here’s a hypothetical. Suppose the chest was in the middle of a sandy desert area (I don’t think it is), how could you describe its position accurately enough without recourse to some numbers?

            Yes, the poem is multi-layered, but it also has to reference a tiny spot that is not particularly near a human trail. If it’s not right next to some landmark feature, you’re going to have a hard time pinning it down, IMO.

            The other thing I would say is, even though FF has a lot of fun with his posts, it is unwise to discount anything he says as containing no useful info.

          • Voxpops,
            We would have a very different poem if the chest were in the middle of a sandy desert locationn. I believe the poem is guiding us in specific detail to where the TC lies. I don’t see a need for measurements (in the traditional meaning). I see a different type of measurement guide in the poem.

          • We all do see the poem differently, Puzzled, that’s what makes it so intriguing. Good luck with your search!

          • Here are some numbers 45 … and 45… add the letters of the first two lines.. then add lines 3 and 4… both equal 45……. which is the 45th latitude.. where warm waters halt

          • Seeker, you asked, “How do you think a searcher can be reasonably certain they have the correct or most of the needed information beforehand?”

            I think that as we study the poem, its is important to understand every definition, synonym, homophone and known play on words related to each and every word in the poem. As we become more familiar with each and every word, we will be able to come to a better understanding of each part of the poem as we work through it and can see other possible meanings of the words and phrases. Fenn says “don’t mess with my poem”. I think this means that the sentences and phrases should not be rearranged. They should be read in the exact order he has given them.

            I think that we should not discount any portion of the poem. In my opinion, if we think that any part of the poem is not important, then its likely we aren’t understanding it and should re-think things.

            You asked about the “why didn’t I think of that before” moment. I think that “why didn’t I think of that” is essential to knowing you have the correct WWWH. It should be unique, something not everyone would think of but something so simple that a child could think of it.

            It has been my opinion from the very start that if we have found a place where warm waters halt and its just like dozens of other like places, then we haven’t done our homework. I have always believed we should obtain enough information from the poem itself to identify one specific WWWH that is distinct from other places where warm waters halt. I think the answer has to be different from all of the other places where warm waters halt.

            Fenn has said that there are “hints in the book if you can recognize them”. He has told us to read the book and then read the poem many times (was it ten times?- not sure about the number) and then read the book again. I think this is because we must start to understand the poem before we can recognize the hints in the book. I have mentioned before that there are several stories in the book that I believe are talking about WWWH. But, until you know the correct WWWH, you can’t see it in the stories. Of course this is my opinion but it has been very fascinating to re-read the book and suddenly to see different meanings in some of the statements and some of the stories. I think that Fenn is a masterful writer to write in a way that the stories contain a completely different meaning once you understand WWWH. Again; this is my opinion.

            I also believe that the phrase, “the answers I already know” is telling us that we are not starting by pinpointing locations on a map. Yes, we will need the map, but I think it comes after we have the answers. The answers to what? WWWH is one thing we need an answer for. I think that answer can be found without a map, and in fact I didn’t get my answer to WWWH until I put away the map. What I found (or believe I’ve found) is that working on the poem that way is much more productive than working on the poem while simultaneously studying the map. I personally believe the map is not useful until we obtain some of the “answers” and once we think we have some of the answers we should re-read the book and see if we pick up any hints that we may have earlier overlooked.

            So basically, I think one answer in the poem should lead to another answer in the poem and we don’t really need the map until we get some answers. Once we have some answers, if they are the correct answers, I think that we will recognize the “hints” in the book. If the hints in the book support what the poem tells us, I think this should give us confidence in our answers. I do firmly believe that the “hints” in the book do not solve the poem. They only provide confidence. The poem tells us everything we need!

          • Voxpops,
            I remember the e-mail you reference very well… it’s posted in forrest get mail.

            I have read n read that e-mail and still have not decided if fenn is being serious or having fun with it. But it does raise an eyebrow. I have taken time to look at the poem’s numbers as well… Yes there are number in the poem… the question is are they deliberate?

            Examples of words such as “there’ll” “I’ve” “You’ve” etc. being used to possibly keep a line count [words] to an exact number, Or the Capital letters in each line, or why the first stanza starting with the letter ‘A’ first word in the poem “AS” is 42 spaces to the ‘T’ in the word “treasures”?

            And like you said… are 3 stanzas just fillers as some have stated they believe they are? Or is it possible that the line count, stanza count, numbers of capital letters [ and possible for the B in brown as an indicator ] are important? Can the total number of word in each stanza refer to elevation points?

            There are many numbers in the poem that can be seen and not forced by making a some kinda code. There are also directional indicators such as, in, stop, right, left, up, down, go etc. But what is it about these type of information is it we need to understand IF they are to be used? Shouldn’t there be something that explains these, without guessing their usage? Another words… the know beforehand…

          • You’re right, Seeker, there would need to be directions in the poem regarding what to use… 😉

          • I don’t think the poem itself contains numbers. Yes, I have counted syllables, capitol letters, punctuation, and everything else I can think of.

            My personal opinion about the quote you mention is that Fenn was having a bit of fun with this lady. Here is the quote.

            Just cause you will probably get a laugh…i spent hours last night with those numbers below…i added them, multiplied them, found a pattern, try latitudes, hardshad #, morse code, applied it to the alphabet, searched zip codes, elevations, phone codes etc…dreamt of numbers and woke up this morning and said. If Hegben was that deep it would reach China and have a drainage hole, all the water would leak out and if you did plunk it at Hegbens depth then I could just walk around and find it. Giggles.”

            “Here’s a lady who may find the treasure because she has done the math and knows exactly where it is. f”

            Clearly (imo) this lady was poking fun at herself a bit as she elaborated the lengths she had gone to in attempting to solve the poem.

            I think it is clear that Fenn was just having fun with her in his reply. “done the math” can just be like, “done my homework” meaning studied the subject carefully. I think his statement was nothing more than that.

            If this lady “knows exactly where it is”, it would have been found by now. So I think this is evidence that Fenn was just having a little fun.

          • Strawshadow….to answer your question…my WWWH and HOB have remained the same but fellow searchers on this blog have helped me to consider alternatives for all the other aspects including TC location which isn’t far from there. All the trophy fishing and boating terminology have helped as well as the knowledge that FF loves considering how the ancients lived and thrived. Our planning, IMO, is to determine how to most efficiently rule out the limited number of possible TC locations given his clues and with boots on the ground and maybe a GPS handheld with preset waypoints you enter…I think FF has learned that high water from past ice periods can be seen in rock formations and “angles of repose” in the canyons. Heavy loads might be where some rocks fell from the canyon walls near those high water blazes.

            I am curious if anyone has info on who said 1500 meters minimum altitude (which is slightly less than 5000 feet)?

          • Geeezzzzz RC, now everyone knows.

            So what about the “important possibility” Do you think it’s related? And why or why not?

            While I don’t hold all the after the fact comments as hints or clues… they do have value. What is it that no one, to fenns uncertain knowledge, are we overlooking?

            Help me out here, I’m trying to discuss the poem… and if we don’t use the information fenn talks about… how do we double check ourselves?

    • @ seeker and RC, what state have you solved warm waters halt for? I have evidence supporting my solution and have taken screen shots of some “nifty” things but I’d be afraid to share them if I’m on the right track… I could probably give one away but I have a problem I can’t cure… There is still information I don’t understand even though I have a couple locations in mind… I even found a location that could possibly lead to Mr. Fenn property but I can’t seem to find the property records for that county. Also, I’ve debated if that spot would be “special”… quite amusing place and I could definitely see that being the final answer and it fits the “searchers within 200 feet”… it reminds me of the floating hat story board about being goofy and eccentric… almost like youve got to be kidding me…

    • RC, I agree about WWWH not having to be (too) specific. But
      if I say too much more about this, I may expose too much. If
      a search has the correct WWWH, the clues get easier and
      easier to solve, in order, after that. Even though it may still
      take hundreds of hours (it did for me). And I still don’t have
      the TC in hand. I think I’m getting very close to it now, re:
      its EXACT location identification. My next BOTG search
      will, with a SMALL amount of luck, put me in (literal) touch
      with the TC.

      The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

      Good luck to all searchers. Please stay safe, and avoid
      the wild creatures that inhabit the Rockies.

  95. I was reading the poem last night. I’m sure this has been brought up before (I’m finding that many “ideas” have been shared before.).

    But I realized last night that I could be completely wrong about the phrase “Now hear me all and listen good”. I used to think this was bad wording, and that it should correctly read “and listen well”.

    But I realized last night that “good” may be a noun. “Now hear me all, and listen good (good-hearted people). A bit like “he who has ears to hear, listen to me”.

    So “listen good” is not referring to an action, but to the type of person he is speaking to.

    The next verse says “your effort will be worth the cold”. It is like he is saying “listen to me GOOD and honorable people, the sincere efforts you put in will one day be worth it.”

    Just wanted share that. This is actually a very beautiful poem. I have been finding that out slowly but surely over the last two weeks. Thank you Forrest.

  96. I am calling out anyone that who thinks I am full of it, and those who don’t. I would like to offer a public challenge because I think it is time for me to either put up,or shut up. This challenge will consist of me telling the solve to whomever is willing to listen to it , but they would have to be there, where the poem leads the searcher. Don’t worry even a 100 year old person can get there. I am putting my credibility on the line folks. Who’s game? We can set up a public place to meet, and a date on the calendar.You can bring as much company as you want. I think it is time to reveal the poem. And please understand my reluctance to discuss the clues any further. So I am calling out anyone, and everyone who wants to prove me wrong.So take the challenge then, and prove me wrong. And how come if I know where the treasure chest is I don’t just go get it? All answers will be revealed, and those of you, if any, take the challenge will find out why the treasure is still there. I do understand the pressure i put upon myself, but thats how it has to be. Just in case you don’t want to take the challenge do not worry about it this is not for you. RC.

      • I think RC stands for (after reading his post above) “really confident” or “really cocky” or maybe “really crazy”. But I’m not sure.

    • Well RC, this is a new twist on things. I’ll hand you that. But I’m a little confused on what you are saying.

      So you have solved the poem and want us to meet you there so you can tell us why the chest is still there? Is that what you are asking?

      • If that’s the case… in! But I’m leaving the chest in its new hidey spot in the Appalachians….and planned to schedule a speech and book signing about why it was no longer in the Rockeys…so I’ll have to make sure I can reschedule…

    • I don’t foresee anyone trying to cut line here, RC.

      “So take the challenge then, and prove me wrong.”

      Why would anyone finance a trip, drive for unknown hours, just to meet you at your spot to prove you wrong?

      You are the one prosecuting this case, RC. The burden of proof is upon you.

      Good luck to you sir.

    • if you go get the treasure just do it , or is it no value for you if no one se you are the one who find it ?
      i go in november to look on my idea of the spot , and i hope its there still, but maybe you already get it or im just thinking the wrong way , my advice is you just go get it and make a call to Fenn and say thanks , so he can call of the chase ,

    • What you are doing is very smart and sneaky but i can disprove you from my couch in my bath robe….what is the blaze? Oh yes I have the blaze figured out and you have to have it for a starting point. Actually I DO have the entire poem figured out and plan to search next week….Not only that…I can prove you don’t have 4 of the clues correctly…wait…5

    • I’ll take you up on that offer RC.
      You book my flight & we will meet wherever you want.
      I will suck up the cost of the rental car & lodging for myself.
      It should be around $500 – $700 from PBI to fly anywhere in the Rockies.
      I will document your search with 1080 HD video.
      I look forward to your response.

    • OK RC
      I want to take that challenge up but I live in Illinois and there are 1000,s who also live to far away to meet. If what you are saying is true then save a lot and I mean 1000,s of people money and put up or shut up. You say you don’t want it then just put it HERE in YOUR WORDS real simple to do. Just type it out.
      Personally and I will saiy what everyone else is chickening out to say: “YOU DON’T HAVE THE GUTS TO DO IT” and I will stand by my word..
      To all of us you are just ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE BULL CRAP PEOPLE who think they have it and “DON’T”.

  97. As Goofy said, this is a new twist, but wouldn’t it be easier to prove your point with the chest in hand and a few photographs, RC? Having a posse of adjudicators wouldn’t really add anything, unless I’m missing something.

    Btw, I agree with a lot of what’s been said above, but although I believe the poem can yield its fruit without reference to anything else (hence only needing the final clue), a good map has been essential to me for confirmation along the way. Without the map, I’m convinced you’d need an intimate knowledge of geography, beyond what 99% of us possess.

    What I’ve found in addition is that BOTG have dispelled false interpretations and confirmed accurate ones. It’s so easy to believe you’ve solved the poem completely from an armchair perspective, only to realize there’s more to it than at first expected. That’s not to contradict the notion that all can be revealed purely from the poem, but you need to be 100% accurate in your reading.

    From my understanding of the poem, although the end point seems to be attainable without knowing the answers to any of the other clues, it’s extremely unlikely that anyone will be able to pick out the final resting point without going through the whole process. Not only does the trajectory confirm the end point, IMO, but it also gives us a glimpse into how Forrest was thinking when he devised the Chase.

    Of course, these are all just my own musings, and it’s now very difficult for me to complete my own chase (being 5,000 miles away). Should anyone take you up on your offer, RC, I’d be interested in knowing your chosen meeting point! I have a very definite fix on where I think the chest is, and a rendezvous within 50 miles would have me very worried indeed!

    • But remember Vox, civilization ends (or something lime that) if the chest is remove from its spot, according to RC. That Mr. Fenn surely is a tricmy guy!!!!


      • RC, unless it’s for added security, I really can’t see why you can’t just go and get the chest on your own. Why wait for people to take you up on a challenge that offers them no benefit? I really don’t think most people are interested in criticizing you, proving you wrong, or believe your credibility is somehow on the line. We’re all in this chase (some of us a long time), and we’ve all been wrong on occasion, so you’d be no different if your gambit fails.

        I’m feeling no discomfort over your challenge – just bemusement… Anyway, I wish you luck with your search.

  98. i think the poem is what we need , all discussions realy get us of the track
    if we understand FF s carakter and not try to step after his words is better,
    he is funny , humble and nice person , and most intrested in humans and also how we fill the life with yoy,

  99. Good morning fellow searchers. Like I said yesterday this challenge is not for everyone. If you don’t think this is a good idea then don’t worry about it for this is not your cup of tea. I knew the risks about posting this public challenge, but I know I can take the criticism. So take the challenge, or don’t take it. I don’t feel I have to defend why I am doing this. I just am. And I am sorry if some of you feel some sort of discomfort by me doing this. Like I said my credibility is on the line but I think the risk is worth the reward. I would think that those of you who think they have a solid solve would take this challenge, but I may be wrong. See it is easy to criticize but when someone calls you out then a million of excuses come out as to why this challenge is wrong. So who thinks they have a solid solve? Are you willing to be publicly critized if you are wrong? I know I am. Ruben C.

    • RC;

      Before anyone accepts your challenge, I think that you would have to at least disclose what state you think the treasure lies.

      I live in Idaho, I am not about to drive or fly (at my expense) to New Mexico or Colorado just to see you NOT pick up the treasure Chest.

      You are irritating, but I can put up with your boasting more than I can look at a depleting checking account. For what?

      The thrill of seeing you NOT find the treasure – GET SERIOUS!

      Just the words of someone who is VERY confident in his solve, but someone who is penny wise.


    • So RC, you’re calling out the ones that think they have a solid solution? That’s mighty bold talk for a one eyed fat man. Apparently you want to prove everyone else’s solution wrong, am I understanding you correctly. Why wouldn’t you just prove yourself correct to anyone that wants to show up?

      As far as credibility goes, you have little to none so far. Right now you’re sounding like just another looney toon that’s absolutely sure he can’t be wrong and for some unknown reason want us to meet you someplace so you can share why it’s still there.

      Or are you wanting to prove why you think it can’t be retrieved. I’m trying to be understanding and patient with you, but you need to explain what you are saying.

    • RC you seem to have missed reading a few dozen solutions by other searchers here on this blog. They all put themselves and their solutions out there for others to analyze, critique and enjoy. Sometimes before they could test it most times after they returned empty handed.
      We enjoy reading other’s solutions. We also learn from other’s ideas. This blog is about sharing ideas…not preaching not bloviating and not pretending. You appear to be in the bloviating category and you are irritating many so please calm down. Share or don’t share but there is no reason to taunt folks.

      • Good day to all fellow searchers!!
        RC, ……out of curiosity, have you actually read or re-read your statement? It is entirely hypocritical. You are telling folks here that it is “..time to reveal the solve” and you are going to “…put up or shut up..” You then go on to say that “…we can meet at a time and place/date on the calendar and you can bring as many people as you want..” then,…”..Please understand my reluctance to reveal anything further..”
        So you’ve invited everyone and there friends and family to a public reading of your solve, but are reluctant to speak any further?
        I do understand if you feel you have a great solve, but are not able to go look, then why not befriend a few folks who can and see if you can work together? Wouldn’t that make a little more sense?
        Thousands of people have and continue to search for the chest, many of whom are on this blog. Don’t you think at the very least, it is in poor taste to make a statement like you have?

        Apologies if I offend, but might not be a bad idea for you to re-think your strategy.


      • Thank you Dal,
        I for one have posted my solve right up to looking for the blaze. Dal has been forthcoming, as have countless others.

        It seems your point is that you can prove the chest is unrecoverable. So your challenge is, well, bizarre. Just say it. Indulgence is under the blowout or whatever.

        • I think I see (thanks also to JDA). So, RC is trying to prove a negative??? But if you can see the chest it’s recoverable, and if you can’t then there’s absolutely no proof it’s even there. To have an unrecoverable chest makes a mockery of the Chase. I, for one, don’t buy that at all. But until we hear something from RC, himself, this is all conjecture.

    • RC ~ “. I knew the risks about posting this public challenge, but I know I can take the criticism. ”

      The only criticism I can give you is to criticize the lack of information. You’ve given thoughts on premise, but nothing for us to work with. No tangible place, no line of thought or process, No reasoning behind what you have posted. You’re coming over as to say, my crystal ball knows all…
      Now you want to challenge us… what is your challenge other than a complete leap of faith.

      I personally will talk about any type of solve, method, reading, analogy etc. But now you have stated that you know a 100 year old can walk right to the chest… implying you have solved the poem and know where the chest is… and are doing it publicly.

      So yep RC… the time has come where I have to say… put up or shut up! Done challenge me if you have nothing to give as a challenge other than an ego. No more fortune cookies BS… show me just how smart you are if you want me or anyone to take your challenge with any serious thought.

    • RC;

      My email address is SculptorJDA at aol dot com

      If you are unwilling to publish what state you think the treasure is in, email me and we can discuss it in private.

      I await your email. – JDA

      • Hey JDA
        Wouldn’t that kind of be like stepping on all of our toes at once? He for sure isn’t going to give you the ok to put it out here on the blog. Trek lightly my friend, as the people who trust you now may change their mind if you start talking behind closed doors…..
        Timothy A

        • Sorry if it appeared that I was stepping on toes. I have NO aspiration that RC will contact me.

          In my personal opinion RC has absolutely NO intention of revealing to ANYONE ANYTHING about his solve. To do so would be to destroy the mystique he has worked so hard to create.

          Just my personal opinion.


  100. Dear, RC since you have issued a challenge I’ll entertain this challenge under certain conditions… I live WAY away from the Rocky Mountains… about 18 hours…. So, before I meet you at “your” spot just give me the coordinates in an email and I’ll see if I can get there knowing information that I know… if I can I’ll meet you there… If I can’t I will tell you I can’t and you can proceed as you like. However, Ill also tell you I’m the commentor… and I’m NOT going to tell you why except that I’m using a different screen name… ill tell you the old screen name… Tony…because of unfortunate circumstances… however that being said, I’m confident the chest exists and that I have solid leads but just can’t pinpoint it down to a “singular” location…

  101. This (RC versus Everybody) is what was called a “Circus” (USN terminology – look it up) during WW2. If a German fighter pilot decided to come up and engage, well… lets all remember who won THAT war. Also, when extended / useless conversations get FUBAR, isn’t it time to bail and move on to something more productive? Stop listening to a guy on a soapbox, and he’ll either shut up or move on. Back to TTOTC for me. Leaving for my third search (in Wyoming) next week. I’m old, but I’m having a ball. Good luck out there!

    • TJ;

      Good luck in your upcoming search in Wyoming. Are you willing to say if your search area is in YNP or not?

      As you may know, I search in Wyoming but NOT in YNP

      TRY to STAY SAFE on your search


      • JDA– I think it’s in Wyoming (not YNP) also. One of these days I’ll share why I think that’s the case. Only been at just over two weeks now. But I believe Wyoming is a “wise” choice.

      • Area is within easy striking distance of Thermopolis.
        As far as “…STAY SAFE…” Thank you. I will. Safety is built on the foundation of being prepared. I’m in very good shape, US Navy veteran (Vietnam era), former Outward Bounder, never hunt alone, armed, experienced camper, 4WD, etc. etc. This trip will be my last one to Wyoming (for TTOTC purposes) as I’ve decided to jump off ‘the poem is a set of directions’ train, and switch to investigating the poem as a series of clues that ends up painting a picture (if you will) of where the chest lies. Interpreting FF’s WORDS (especially verbs ) may be the way to go. We’ll see. Happy hunting JDA. See ya on the flip side.

          • I no longer think the treasure is where I first thought, but I’m going back with my bride (anniversary trip) to show her the area (okay – and to take one more stab at it) just because the spot is so 360 degree awesomely beautiful. I came across some mountain lion tracks the last time I was searching there. I don’t think I’ll share this info with her, although… I guess I will have to review the ‘what to do if / when one comes across a moutain lion.’

    • tjschweers,
      You might be right about the soap box… many have done the same in the past. I think that most here will give almost anyone the opportunity to explain themselves before we come to a “final judgement” [ for lack of a better term ]… I think that is what is happening here. RC has been around for a while… I personally was attempting to get him to open up with my questions about his post, and that lack any real information to back up his thoughts. So if he [ RC ] decides not to articulate his opinions or his challenge… well, we have seen this before and know the outcome.

  102. All I want to know is who told RC about Brown possibly being a connection to Brown Trout. Do we not keep anything sacred in this quest anymore.

    RC = 1
    Humanity = 0

  103. I think what RC is doing is very slick. If one person has it and wants to shut him up then they will divulge a clue….playing on temptation of others…tsk tsk!

    • Sorry, Missouri Jon, I don’t quite follow. When you say “if one person has it,” do you mean the chest or the same solution? If you mean the same (or very similar) solution, are you saying that he hopes someone will divulge the last piece(s) of the jigsaw? I think I’m being very dense here, because I’m not really seeing what RC stands to gain.

      • This is far fetched, and takes a bit of imagination, but here goes:

        Let’s say that RC has come up with a convincing solve that ends at Lower Yellowstone Falls. All of his clues “seem” to fall into place. He gives his “solve” to Jake Faulker – Jake follows the clues and winds up on the edge of Lower Yellowstone Falls.

        RC says – “See, I told you that I had it all figured out, but it is impossible to retrieve the treasure.”

        But see- all of the clues are “perfect” and they led to the “Perfect Place” – just the kind of place that Forrest would want his bones to be in for eternity.

        RC smirks and says, “Aren’t I smart?”

        Just a bit if imagination at work


  104. You are smart, smarter than I. The big picture is the whole picture. The perfect solve is one in which we all play a part. After all these years does anybody believe that they’re solution was there’s alone? Haven’t we all contributed something of value, even my spotty ramblings have had some influence, ok, maybe that’s a stretch but I know everyone else’s has. The blogs are just for entertainment, how can we read them and not be influenced? The perfect place is where you are now and I believe Mr. Fenns solution is specific, a dedication and an education all bundled into a package that will humble the most elevated ego. A blind King, poet, artist, may hear what can’t be seen and feel what can’t be heard. Allow your senses be your guide and compassion your bearing. Trust in yourself and trust in knowing why. Good Day!

  105. I know this is the thread for stanza 5…. but just past it is something that came together for me last night… I thought that word ‘listen’ (stanza 6) implied some kind of border or edge, because ‘list’ is the selvage edge of a roll of fabrics, and maybe in other fabrication materials as well, sheet metal, furrows in soil, etc. But re-reading the book and Fenn’s penchant for making lists of rules, the statement on page 12 jumped out …”this store was now number one on the list.”

    In this hunt, ‘List’ could mean both edge and enumeration as well as a 3rd layer having to do with sound or understanding.

    IF ‘list’ in the poem, is store # 1 in the book — then stanza 6 may store the title of the place to go alone, and IMP LIT’s store may have a title.

    Its all circular, on layers, like spirals, stirred spirits. Auger that.

    • I am pretty sure that this thread – The Poem…part Five – does not mean to discuss stanza #5, but rather that this is “Chapter” five, or the fifth time that it has appeared – The poem – Part 1, Part 2, etc.

      OS2 – you say. “then stanza 6 may store the title of the place to go alone” you are RIGHT ON!!! Something in stanza 6 WILL lead you to “In there”, and this will lead you directly to the correct wwwh – or so I believe.

      Good luck in finding the correct “lead” in stanza #6 – It will open up a lot for you.


      • Yeh, you’re right on that stanza thing… not Stanza 5… my mistake, Funny how you get an easy association stuck in your head and don’t question it until someone else points it out.

        Well, I was gonna go on to ‘brave’…. but I think I’ll sit on that egg for a while yet.

        Thanks JDA

      • The most obvious possibilities in stanza 6 are “in the wood” (which we know JDA is using) and “title to the gold”. “In the wood” for a Wyoming searcher suggests the Wood River; “title to the gold” suggests Yellowstone (i.e. what is a formal title that means gold? — why, yellow stone of course). I’m sure you can come up with many other places that are reasonable matches to words or phrases from stanza 6.

        • zaphod,
          I know you’re just giving others searchers comments as examples. but if YS is a clue as to title to the gold… the clues seem out of order, don’t they?

          The reason I ask is this… can the poem actually tell the reader where to start… such as YS, or in stanza 5 tired and weak as the medicine wheel or in the wood to be Wood river etc. And fenn is not considering it a clue because its the… know where to start? or need to start at the beginning? or simply put, he is telling us the answer and there is no clue if you have the answer that ‘tells’ us the starting point?

          Maybe this is that important possibility fenn talked about.

          • Seeker;

            I have been saying that for months now. Something in stanza #6 leads to “IN There” in stanza #1, which leads directly to wwwh. I have even said that “In the wood” will lead the searcher to “In There” – At least, in my opinion. Couple this with my belief that the architecture of the poem is a circle, and it all begins to make sense…at least to me anyway.

            Just the rantings of an old man – TRY to STAY SAFE ALL


          • Hi Seeker,

            > I know you’re just giving other
            > searchers comments as examples.
            > but if YS is a clue as to title to the
            > gold… the clues seem out of order,
            > don’t they?

            Well, in this case, I would take “title to the gold” as the clue, and Yellowstone to be the answer. It’s a little obvious for my tastes, but it works. Now, when you say it seems out of order, do you mean you would expect this clue/answer to be more appropriate at the beginning of the poem rather than at the very end? After all, “Yellowstone” is awfully broad and unusable for getting a searcher to within, say, 10 feet. But I know some searchers think the clues might be in reverse order, so who knows — maybe that actually is the starting point.

            > The reason I ask is this… can the
            > poem actually tell the reader where to
            > start… such as YS, or in stanza 5 tired
            > and weak as the medicine wheel or in
            > the wood to be Wood river etc.

            I don’t see why not for the reasons above.

            > And fenn is not considering it a clue
            > because its the… know where to start?

            But why can’t it be a clue? He’s not giving you the answer by outright saying “Yellowstone” or “Wood River” or “Medicine Wheel” — he’s (potentially) providing a clue to those locations, and you the searcher are finding your answers on maps. I guess I’m not understanding your objection to something like “in the wood” being a clue?

      • JDA,

        I’m not saying I think the treasure is in Yellowstone…but with so many people following that direction…what made you eliminate it with confidence or is it that you are confident in Wyoming..I only ask that cause you kind of responded like “you can have Yellowstone”..Maybe your answer will help other seekers…asking out of respect, not poking at you. Email, blog can come out sounding different sometimes…I think your answer would be interesting…


        • When I first started searching, I had a theory about wwwh. Since I had been to Hebgen Lake a couple of times, I applied this theory to Montana. I developed three complete solves around Anaconda, Montana. – All led to private land or other conflicts.

          I got my copy of TTOTC – read it. The story of Cody plus the story of Forrest and Skippy driving home – both in Wyoming plus the Yellowstone connection led me to apply my wwwh theory to Wyoming. From there, I wound up in my present location, and I have never changed my basic locations since.

          As I worked the “solve” I developed the Circle Architecture Theory, and a strange definition of “In the wood” led me to Stanza #1 – IN THERE. This definition of “In the wood” led me to a geographical “area”.

          Looking on a map I found the SAME wwwh that I had started at. This was conformation (to me) that I was at the correct wwwh. “In the wood” told me to go “In there” and this information told me to look in a specific area to find wwwh.

          This led me to Wyoming Solve #1 – I wound up on Private land…end of Solve #1.

          Wyoming solve #2 was an extension of #1 – Thoroughly searched area, no treasure. This led to Wyoming solve #3

          Wyoming Solve #3 – the one I am on now. It is also an extension of Solves #1 and #2 – same basic area – 1/2 mile further upstream.

          Probably more than you wanted to know, but that is the story of why NOT YNP.

          Happy hunting to all and TRY to STAY SAFE JDA

          • JDA,(in a whisper), should have stayed with your very first thought…When it’s all said and done, instead of saying “why didn’t I think of that”, you’ll be saying “^%#, I had it”.:)

          • Ya, JD,
            I know where your WWWH is & will not disclose this info to anyone.
            This is our pledge to paranoia.
            Even though I gave out my WWWH (Ojo) & (Firehole) canyon down & where HOB (on the Madison) is & what I think no place for Joseph Meek is (YNP), right here on Dal’s site because this is a place to share.
            I would hope you share your complete solve after your trip as will I when I am on my way there as I have done with many.
            One thing I found out about sharing my complete solve is that all 12 of them including you, not one of you disagreed on the same thing.
            That’s what I figured before sharing anyway.
            All of you that I shared my solve with were more interested in there own solve.
            This should tell you something about your solve.
            No one really cares about your solve unless you have the chest.
            So why do you think that if someone knows WWWH is they can just go there & get the chest?

          • I guess you can call it paranoia Jake. If (in fact) you know where my wwwh is, I will give you no more than three days to figure out my general search area. You will not be able to name “The Spot”, but you can come within 100 yards, I am sure, and that is too close for comfort for me. I know that YOU would not “Jump my claim”, but others may not be so honest.

            Let’s hope I find it, and then I can publish it to the world. If not, I
            WILL publish it after one final search in Sept/Oct. JDA

          • JD,
            I do not need 3 days to figure out your area.
            If I wanted to figure out your area, I would have already done so with all the info you have given me.
            This is your area & not mine.
            I don’t intend to search anyone’s area unless they want me to.
            That being said. I will be staying on the Gallatin Gateway Sept. 14th thru the 19th.
            If someone wants me to check there area around here, just let me know.

            Dal, are you going to be in the area around this time?
            I think you said you may pop in there in Sept…..

          • Jake;

            As I said in my previous post, I trust you to not “Jump my claim” – but it is others that I do not know that I do not trust.

            Good Luck in your Galatin Search next month. I hope that I can save you some airfare, but only time will tell.

            Still not sure when I will be able to go next – This week-end or next.


          • Thanks JD,
            I do not communicate to anyone about others spots or solves.
            It’s not the way I roll & would never put it out in cyberspace unless they have already done so.
            Relax, your spot is safe with me.
            My trip is non-refundable this time so you will not be saving me anything.
            I am going either way & besides, there are reasons why they call it The Treasure State. Go figure.
            If you look at the 1st stanza you will know why, not WY.
            Not enchanted & Centennial State is what it is not.
            Cowboy State, Equality State, Big Wyoming????
            So when was the motto for Montana changed???

          • Pssst.
            I’m staying at the Cinnamon Lodge on the Gallatin Gateway.
            I hope you have a key…..
            You have my word.
            Very nice people & place right on the Gallatin River down the the road from Taylor Fork & where the pic of Peggy, Forrest & Joe was taken.
            The owners are the best. Hi Morgen!
            Just to stay on topic, the poem takes me here.

  106. Good morning to all searchers,researchers, and even to all lurkers! I will be going to where the poem is leading us to. I could not get to it last time, but I will be there today or tomorrow. To be honest I am nervous, and a bit anxious to find the chest filled with riches. I guess one has to be mentally prepared not to get overly exited, and get a heart attack. I will post my findings as soon as I can. I just wish someone else had this burden other than me, but at the same time I want to put and end to my chase. Just a word of advise–go back to where the poem led you the first time and open your eyes. RC.

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