824 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…Part Twentysix…

  1. I believe the first clue starts with the words “As I have gone alone in there”.

    • With that in mind what if Forrest is playing with words when he says that two different people got the 1st two clues right then went right past the treasure. It seems he’s saying that people physically walked right past the next clue when they were out in the field searching. But I propose he was saying something different. Remember people are sending him all kinds of messages and phone calls etc… what if he actually meant that 2 different people who have emailed him deciphered the 1st two clues correctly (regardless if they physically looked or not) and then they skipped right past the next clue written in the poem or book stopping them from finding the treasures location? It doesn’t sound like much but if the 1st clue is say “I went alone in there” then it doesn’t mean they even know at all where the location is, just that they know something and that they got the 1st two clues correct. This would be a great mislead for Forrest because there are a million people out there wondering if they were that person Forrest is talking about . Then they keep searching the same area over and over looking for the clue they missed, instead of looking at the poem and what the 1st 2 clues may be. Because it’s my belief that if “I went alone in there” is the 1st clue then depending on what the next clue is (it would have to be big one) I don’t think just 2 clues are going to get you to a specific location. At least not when the 1st one has nothing to do with the starting point!.

      • Ok I read what Forrest said wrong because I didn’t get it from the source. Pretty much wasted my time and energy on everything I just said.

        • Yup. It’s happened to all of us.
          FYI the paraphrase of the real quote is: ‘some people have gotten the first 2 clues correct, and then gone right past the other seven ‘. No mention of whether they were 100 miles away from the chest or not.
          The 2 or few people (who seem to be a different group) that have gotten within 500’, he didn’t say if they’d gotten ANY of the clues right.

    • Funny.. we are all old. Know where I want to be scattered to the wind. With a a bench on my hillside. My kids get it. A bench to come and talk t me. It’s personal. Anywhere.

  2. I believe this clue “As I have gone alone in there” means GO ALONE; Forrest is letting everyone know to go by yourself and he is giving instruction as how to get there and follow his lead….. This is amazing and he does have the path just all jumbled up in his poem. Mr. F always says all you need is the poem so read and reread it. It will lead us all there. MAGICAL. MS. Girl

    • Judy,…Forrest has said take the whole family with you to find the treasure. Remember his statement about the out of work Texan,
      and, the one about, show the poem to a kid…..they have better vision and are more creative. Just saying.

      • I agree rit. Forest has often times, here on this very blog, encouraged folks to form partnerships and take their family.
        To me that line tells us that he did not have any help. Therefore no one but Forrest knows of it’s location. He has said this many times outside of the poem but it is also important to understand this concept even if you only have the poem to work from.

        • I think he mentions that he went “alone in there” as a clue because it’s not a place you would normally go alone. It’s a place you would go with friends or family and almost never alone. In fact a place you might stand out if alone.

        • Dal,

          Do you also interpret the poem line for line? Why not, as I have been suggesting numerous times here, that the clues are in complete sentences.

          Example: given 4 lines in the complete sentence, one or more lines contain a “hint”, when put together give a “clue”.

          To show what I mean, taking 1st stanza (1st complete sentence), I get that he tells us that the place he went to was remote and of historical significance.

          “Alone” tells you it is remote. And “riches new and old” says it’s historical with a chest of gold.

          A thought: In Texas at one time in history, Coal was one of their richest commodities and they often referred to it as “Black Gold”. Today Oil replaces it and is their “new” Black Gold.

          It is only my opinion, but worthy of some serious consideration, don’t you think?

          • german-
            You keep pushing your ideas as if we all need to think like you. You are kind of like an evangelist promoting your doctrine. I don’t mind that. In fact I am entertained by it. But this is not about religion, nor is it a science nor an economic theory. There is no reason that I can think of for there not to be as many theories about how the poem is interpreted as their are people out there searching. I agree that in the end there will only be one true solution to this poem. But it seems to me, that the more different directions we take the more likely we are to stumble on the one that Forrest thought of. So far, you have demonstrated no more evidence of your theory being the same as Forrest’s than any other person on this blog.

            You’ve set an impossible goal for yourself to convince me to think like you instead of like me. I’ve read your wonderful solution. I’m thinking about printing it and having it framed. I love it. But I don’t buy into it. Heck, I don’t even understand most of it. But it entertains me and it is all about the germanguy that I love and has been on this blog so long.

            I would not consider for a moment trying to push my simple solution on others and so I am frankly curious why it is that you feel a need to preach your doctrine to me..?

            Has Forrest told you something that you have not shared with us..?
            For goodness sake tell us and we’ll all begin reviewing your solution with renewed vigor.

          • Dal,
            OOPS!! I was preaching, wasn’t I. Well, that’s just one more thing I guess I have to work on (as I remove my stiff white collar).

            You should play baseball, you’d make a great “catcher”.

          • Quite frankly, Dal, I kinda like ol’ Germanguy. His golden arches friend may look a bit stepped on after his ordeal, but his arches shall stand strong, right? Keep it up GG, I’ll lend the perverbial ear… I’ve been smiling all day so far.

  3. I used to think that the first clue was “Begin it wwwh”, but now I’m leaning more towards the 1st sentence being the first clue and every sentence being a clue.

  4. I’m still firmly in the “the 9 sentences are the 9 clues ” camp, but the nature of those clues has evolved to my POV.
    They are not course-adjustment points on a route, nor are they all overlapping venn-diagram circles. I think they are, in fact, a combination of both and more. I believe when FF says follow in consecutive order, he means your knowle(d)ge should develop about each clue in order; i.e. “As I have gone alone in there…riches new & old” must be Understood before you’ll find the right ‘where warm waters halt’. Or… Cold and in the wood are either the last clues needed to find the chest, or prove whether your marvel gaze is right or not.
    My best of my remaining 7 solves puts me in public land, begins at a place water no longer flows, south in a canyon, to someplace only accessible by canoe or car (no peds), and so on.

    • I’ve always discounted the nine sentences, nine clues connection because in stanza 3 you look down your quest to cease yet there are still sentences left.

      However, Forrest preaches it’s a straightforward simple solution & nine sentences, nine clues is nice and tidy! It’s hard to get more simple.

      FWIW. I currently think “old and new” is clue 1 & WWWH is clue 2, but it’s only Tuesday. Check again with me in a few days 🙂


      • Hmmm. Yeah I do prefer the straightforward ‘don’t mess with the poem / every word is deliberate’ angle. 😉
        I can’t quite agree that all 9 clues appear before line 14.. I can see how ‘cease’ could be read to suggest the end of the clues, but –based on vocab alone–, so could ‘halt’ or ‘end’…?

        I’m stuck believing ‘in the wood’ is the 9th clue.

        • A few ideas for “in the wood”
          1. “In the know” about the big picture what’s important. ie on Forest Service land
          2. In the saddle of a mountain – like where a waterfall carves out a saddle.
          3. Obvious contenders are small copse of trees, underbrush, inside tree etc.
          My solve combines FS land and 2 others at TC location

        • Map- possibility for “quest to cease” your journey to the end, omega, or “to the C’s”(ccc’s = cease)

          My solve uses all 3 of those.

          • Cease is one of those triple (quad?) homonyms. So meanings and readings can be legion. 🙂
            There are about 15 in the poem, IMO.
            Cease /Seize /Seas
            Two / too / to
            Knot / not / nought
            Their / they’re / there
            Here / hear
            Ewe / yew / you
            Knew / new / gnu 😉
            Pease / peas / P’s
            And so on…

  5. I am still in the BIWWWH camp. Forrest has said that over and over. I believe him…

  6. I think the poem attempts to merge a physicla journey with a metaphysical one.

    As I have gone alone in there (Known death and is questioning life.)

    my treasures ( my “I”, my “one” , my aware “self” — with its identity-history-bonds- values-memories-accomplishments, etc. )

    I can keep my secret WHERE (A bold question … will my my “self” survive death?…. will I still have a knowledge of my self & my life?

    And hint of riches new and old. ( Will we be just empty jars in Providence’s pantry? just Astrisks?)

    The poem & its duality go on, but I won’t…. however, I think the hiding/burial place is no ordinary mine or crevice. As Olga wanted to be by her dad, I think FF has a place that is both beautiful and symbolically accessible for his family. Perhaps a mountain side that can be seen from Santa Fe . (Ive never been there, but… something that keeps him close to those who are important to him … his extended “self”. )

    OH, and on that knowldge “d” Question … pg 27 “I prayed for d’s” hope that helps.

    • @OldShadows, I recognize wisdom in your insights and also believe bonds/memories/family play hugely into the final place which will shadow ff’s memories. The second memoir IMO shadows a great personal loss along w/terrific memories. Do you think both memoirs combined lead to a beautiful symbolic place or simply TTOTC leads to the TC? Sounds crazy, but I believe I may have solved the second memoir rather than the treasure poem. It’s the one unsettled thing in my mind which keeps me from walking away. Any thoughts?

      • If by 2nd memoir, you man TFTW… though I bought it, I only skimmed it. Somehow I am not keen on reading it… whether it’s because it lacks a monitary inducement, or because I have enough old tales of my own to manage, I don’t know. Have too many piles of books at my nightstand. But the question is ageless … if there is a soul, is there some kind of consciousness with it? Without brains or books or pockets, just WHERE can you keep your treasures?

        • Thanks for responding Shadows. IMO I think you may well be able to take brains, books, and pockets along for the first part of that age old journey – if those are your treasures. Making a leap of faith thru time and space with a conscience spirit is my greatest hope. Of course, all remains to be seen. Death and possible afterlife is the one true journey we mortals make alone. Back to 9 clues: first sentence could refer to many places ff went alone including his future, I also think it refers to 111. Coordinate and (possibly to !!! Isotope).

        • @old Shadows, wasn’t sure if your WHERE question was rhetorical. My only response is a guess… In your heart or spirit.

          • I think you have to keep in mind, Fenns mental state during the cancer years. Besides all his technichal acumen, his years of studying art & ancient cultures, and his literary breadth have to have built a very strong keeness for symbolism.(It jumped out at me in Hush Puppies… after about th 20th reading) Its a different level of communication. I am not making judgment nor discussing philosophical particulars here, just trying to be a little more sensitive to words that may have deeper meanings… “warm waters” may be “life blood”. There is a lot of cemetery talk in the book.
            Anyhow, I have convinced my disinterested family to take me and their awful pop-up camper to a NM site that is calling me. Its full of symbolism, some of which fits like a glove and some that is very stubborn. I hope when we get there we can narrow our scope logically, and have a hoot of time as well. We’ll see. No one is pouting yet.

          • @OldShadows Enjoy your family and the adventure Shadows. Far more important than any solve or gold:)

        • @Old Shadows – would you kindly revisit your question with me “just WHERE can you keep your treasure?” I need a man’s perspective on this line of thinking; the dearest treasures are the people we love and our memories shared with them. Could WHERE be ff’s memories and the place he carried a memory of a special person no longer with him?

          • First, I’m not a man. I’ve noticed that in several of your posts you use gender qualifiers. I don’t understand that.
            Anyhow, In my very amateur analysis of metaphysical aspects of the poem, I found ‘WHERE’ poses a clever and humorous question. (Think Woody Allen – the early years) Imagine the soul of a newly dead person adjusting to being body-less. It might wonder ‘WHERE AM I GONNA KEEP MY STUFF?’ … my memories, thoughts, feelings, pleasures… all the stuff that makes me ME!
            Its like asking WHERE is consciousness? …. well yeh, in the brain, but WHERE? But thats a different treasure hunt.
            Gotta run, time for Stewart & Colbert.

          • Interesting note: I just notice your screen name Old Shadows in this thread & I too immediately associated “Old Shadows” as a masculine name. I don’t know why.

            Nor – from a mans perspective I keep my treasures in my boxers. 🙂


    • Old Shadows-

      He also only used 1 d instead of two in “cadis hatch” pg. 125.
      Maybe he collected so many d’s he doesn’t want to give them up just yet or maybe we are supposed to keep the d in mind when we are trying to figure out…What’s missing in our solve?

      A Vision Quest?

      • I noticed that too… Is D a roman numeral, a rank or file mark on some map, a passing grade? It gets curiouser and curiouser.

  7. weird!?
    working on a new solve. led me to this? x spotty thing…dunno!
    Man …we can’t post pics! Forgot!

  8. If Forrest were of a scientific mind, Where Warm Waters Halt would always be at the scientific Triple Point – of water.
    At this temperature and atmospheric pressure, warm water will eventually cool into either a gas, liquid, or solid. It will halt.
    Begin at Triple Point.

  9. Thank You OldShadows for your view point. I too believe its more complex than just a set of directions. People will laugh and point fingers at me when I finally divulge my solution but it will keep people talking and probing if just to prove me wrong. LOL Its all good, I enjoy the discussions.

    • Discuss this… Do you supposed a meadowlark that’s blind and a robin that ducks (pg 38) is a reference to the duckblind in Hemingway’s Across The River And Into The Woods? A retired Col. is confronting his own death (heart disease). The title is reported to be a deathbed utterance of Stonewall Jackson.

      Here’s a quote: “For a long time he had been thinking about all the fine places he would like to be buried and what parts of the earth he would like to be a part of. The stinking, putrefying part doesn’t last very long, really, he thought, and anyway you are just a sort of mulch, and even the bones will be some use finally. I’d like to be buried way out at the edge of the grounds, but in sight of the old graceful house, and the tall, great trees. i don’t think it would be much of a nuisancwe to them. I could be a part of the ground where the children play in the evenings, and in the mornings, maybe, they would still be taining jumping horses and their hoofs would make the thudding on the turf, and trout would rise in the pool when there was a hatch of fly. ”

      Hem’s style is known as the Iceberg Style… worth the cold, and I think I am learning where the edges are. .

      • I had never heard that before, I will think about it. I love finding things that could be mirroring the book. 🙂

      • Is meadowlark mentioned in the book? I recall scissortail. Is a blind bird mentioned in the book? I don’t recall that. Or perhaps you are suggesting that because he could hit a scissortail with a BB gun, we are to infer the word “blind.”

        I do think “live on the edge, die (bury) on the edge” is a great idea, and it is one I have never considered. Thank you for that, and the above quote.

          • The key to the Meadowlark is the black “V” on his chest…just like the “V” for valor on Mr. Fenn’s Silver Star medal.

          • Fort nights can’t pass soon enough. I shall go hunting again in one. To the victor shall go the spoils.

        • No mention of a blind meadowlark… but the remark that “robins duck” was so strange, I did a little research. In the 1950’s Meadowlark was a popular Hit Parade sad love song … about a blind meadowlark. The song came from a popular Broadway play which was based on a French legend about an old baker in a small village. In his love for his young wife, he turns a “blind eye” to his young wife’s love affair with a young man. The town gossips refer to the old baker as a ‘blind meadowlark’ . I thought was interesting enough …. Until I read the Hemingway book, Across the River and Into the Woods whose theme seemed more appropriate. Or not.

      • Not so young Shadows,

        For a while, i really chased the Hemingway angle. He was the warm waters halting (because of the iceberg principle ) so you started with him and took it in his canon (spanish for canyon) down. That is to say, the key that will tie all the clues together is in his canon of works.

        I read a lot of Hemingway & thoroughly enjoyed the research, but was never able to tie it all together nicely. I was also more excited about when Idaho was still in the running.


        • When I was in 8th grade I once met the Hemmingway granddaughters while skiing in Sun Valley. They were happier and more easily understood than the “old man” who writes with a heavy pen.

        • Yeh, I think Hem is just a wire coathanger bending under a heavy winter coat but even FF’s last sentence in the last chapter… “the great banquet table of history” … reminds me of Hem’s Moveable Feast ( Fitz, Sal, a Caliph, Omar, Andy, Shakespeare, Edna, et al.) , it sorta rounds out his IMP LIT title at the beginning don’tcha think? FF must have inherited his mothers ‘long-sightedness’.

  10. The chase isn’t a place for the faint of heart

    Pick yourself up dust yourself off start all over again

      • Michael D, thank you for asking. I went out this weekend with my son along with my caged beast, leashed, of course! We made it to part of my main search area. There is a cabin that held my interest. I dug in a corner like where f had found the native hiding place. I was very excited to find two old Dr. Pepper cans. Maybe, if I’d dug more… Anyway, a young child should be able to just pick it up and it is exposed to the elements, right? So, I moved the cans elswhere and searched the area more. I turned over a few rocks, one for Renelle and another for someone else. No sign of TC. I inspected a grave marker and wondered. Exposed? I didn’t think so, but I will keep it in mind. We went on to an aluminum mark by foot and talked some. I will go past this point later and search further into this canyon. I have points up there that hold extreme interest to me. Blazes abound. I think there are about five particular features that hold promise. Back to my actual search… we came back down due to weather. Back down, at the main part of this area’s start, I noticed a blaze. I scrambled up to it and found a perfect hiding place and got excited again! Eh, after some digging with a stick… not there. I stumbled across someones marked miners claim (modern). On my way back to my son (who was holding my beast down), I found a very old Imitation Strawberry Soda can. Excited again! Anyway, we headed back home… of course, not before we were able to help a couple out during a flat repair. My area awaits me. My cough is nearly gone. The weekend was fun and exciting. Having my son (20 years old) along was great. He had fun. I am usually chasing solo, so I am truly blesed. I am going to focus on the f being in the middle. No one would be able to convince me that I’m in the wrong area. Again, thanks for asking, Michael D. I’m hot on the trail… good luck.

  11. Wow……ff’s latest comment looks like a breadcrumb to the end game. Is it esoteric symbolism or does hot water and cold concrete indicate a soaking place? Pass his house most days on the way home from acupuncture and haven’t seen a plumber’s truck. I just wish I satisfy myself to get off the Rio Grande warm pools tack. I will continue to put my chips all in for NM THIS YEAR!

  12. IMO

    The hint related to ‘me’ is something that looks like but is something else

  13. rad, where do/did you find “ff’s latest comment”? I’m gonna nominate Dal for Saint-of-Housekeeping for his efforts at keeping it organized and current, but I still lose buttons and threads. Thanx

    • Thanks, I had to search the archives but I found it. & Believe it or not, his water comment fits my solve…. well, my wannabe solve.

  14. @Old Shawdows; ff post as Forest Fire on nine clues , he talks about getting dizzy and needed Xtra Strength Tylenol & plumbing issue etc.

    • Rad, Oops, put my answer in the wrong place… look up, then look down, then take an Extra Strength Tylenol.

  15. I want to share something that I believe, isn’t given much in the way of serious consideration, when Forrest says “each word is deliberate”. What exactly does he mean? Add to that, “15 years to write it”, and “changed it” many times. He felt like he was an “architect” writing the poem and each word is “deliberate.””

    Remember he doesn’t like dictionaries and will often ‘make up’ his own “deliberate” words.

    To my way of thinking, “deliberate”, “15 years to change words” and “architect”, all tell me that there isn’t going to be much in the way of literal meanings in this poem. Besides, we’re not looking at the poem for poetry (literal), we’re looking for a map.

    Key to this, is EVERY WORD is “deliberate”. So even a word like ‘it’ could contain a clue. Some see this, but most are not.

    • german-
      Maybe in 1993 he wrote the second verse and then put it away because he got busy with other things and wasn’t certain how the whole treasure hunt would come to fruition. Then in 2008 he decided to write the book and put the poem in it so he got busy and finished it up.

      Deliberate…everything I say is deliberate…except those times when I was in a coma…

      I think everything Forrest says is deliberate too..

      Just another way of thinking about it..

      • Dal,
        An architect would have to focus strongly on the foundation and the structure of the building (least, it would collapse). That is why I feel strongly about deliberateness of ‘each’ word used by Forrest. Granted, some words have to be used to keep the tone and rhythm of the poem. But I venture a guess that ‘most’ of the words in the poem are purposely placed.

        Each sentence is a clue in itself. No matter how the structure of the sentence is created, they each become a separate clue. Often, within the sentence there are hints that lead us to a singular conclusion (some may even mistaken these hints for clues). When all sentences are solved, the entirety of the poem then creates a map that leads to the chest. And no matter how many hints are uncovered, there is only 9 sentences and 9 clues. I guess the secret then is to know which is which.

        • GG,

          I think you are right on with this thought process…at least it is in agreement with my current solve attempt anyway. Each line, each word has meaning and I have found one riddle. Struggling with parts of the last two sentences…perhaps another riddle?

    • I see it different. The poem is to be taken literally and every word is deliberate. Pulling off both these feats is why it took 15 years

      • Chris,

        “Literal language refers to words that do not deviate from their defined meaning. Non-literal or figurative language refers to words, and groups of words, that exaggerate or alter the usual meanings of the component words.”

        Do I understand that you are going totally “literal”?

        Do you seriously believe that all the words in the poem are going to lead you directly to the chest?

        IMO, if that were the case, the chest would already have been found. Again, this is just the way I see it. No one “has” to listen to me.

    • @GG @CY
      Another topic I believe important but haven’t seen discussed is the “role of an architect”
      3 dimensional: An architect brings together creative ideas & visions.. 1.Conceptually 2. Designs on paper 3. Full Realization of the Space

      I also studied Romanesque architecture, literature, and art which IMO may be important to where the TC will be placed.

      Believe you are correct that every word was intentionally selected to fit into ff’s design. Glad your bright minds can add dimension that I personally wouldn’t conceive. Thanks for all of your insightful comments.

      • Nor, remember that list of soda bottle caps… one in it was for Blatz, which to my knowledge upon first reading, was only a Beer. I’ve since found out that at one time (probably during the depression … I forgot) Blatz also made a soda. Anyhow, when reading about Blatz, their Milwaukee factory was saved & restored because of its Romanesque architecture. Its now part of the University system.

        • @Old Shadows – Interesting tid bit. “Romanesque” in both architecture and Literature is synonymous with faraway, outside, remote & unexplored. sums up FF’s adventures well. In Lit. translates to extravagance and fables which parallel TOTC treasure perfectly. In Architecture Romanesque translates to rustic use of natural materials, heavy masonry and narrow openings. This applies to the “Parkitecture” elements employed by G. Underwood first in YP and then all National Pks. I’ve thought that he may select a rock ledge on a cliff to match romanesque masonry with narrow openings for placement of TC. The Romanesque period also mirrors 1150 AD date of San Lazaro Pueblo & Kublai Kahn dynasty FF refers to.

          I realize the true puzzle solving minds have a huge advantage… but have to admit I have loved months of researching Literature, authors, art, history, arch, and ancient jewelry. my core of discovery has been as rewarding as our family trip to MT to search.

          • When I posted my solution, I mentioned “Romanesque” in Fenn’s choice of the Treasure Chest. During that period, “bronze” was made with tin, instead of iron. To survive the elements.

            I uncovered an interesting fact when researching the subject. The Roman officers’ swords were made with the tin and the troops got swords that contained iron. The officers’ swords would hold up to battle, while the troops’ swords would tend to break in battle and always needed to be replaced. They sure didn’t give the troops much chance at surviving, that’s for sure.

    • I hear what you are saying GG, and agree with most of it. I would have to disagree that FF doesn’t like dictionaries, unless that is a quote from him that I missed. He is certainly a wordsmith, and I feel he would have known through dictionaries the various definitions of words, specifically ones in the poem. I have looked up most of the words in the poem just to see different contexts, tense, meanings, etc. and there are some very interesting things you can find. For instance the word “put” you wouldn’t think right away had so many variations, including “to change a course of direction.”

      As far as the architect comments, they make sense if you are decoding the poem as others have mention in that stanzas 1, 5, 6 go together maybe as the foundation/blueprint and 2,3,4 are the directions, which is how I see it in my solve. Deliberate is capitalizing Brown when it doesn’t really need to be…also think it is the “keyword”. IMO

      • IMO Hank,

        As long as you can go through the poem precisely (Stanza 1 thru 6) and end at the chest, I feel you truly have a map.

        • How do you explain taking the chest and going in peace at stanza 4? The clues must be followed precisely and in order, but what is the order? Some assume it is top to bottom, 123456, or at least some do…the tense of 1,5,6 make one think differently…

          • Hank

            Remember what I said regarding Fenn’s “deliberate” use of words. In addition, I said some words are to keep the “tone and rhythm” of the poem, that’s all.

            Previously, I pointed out that in order to locate any clues in the poem, you “MUST” read each sentence in it’s entirety and not just each line.

            You may discover that there is actually a clue in each sentence. But that again is my opinion.

          • Oh, one more thing. Those thinking the sequence of the clues are 1 thru 9 are correct.

          • Hank,

            I struggled with this for some time. Here is how I now view it.

            Mr. Fenn starts out with..

            As I have gone…(I take this to mean he is telling us to follow him as he hides the chest)

            When he then states…”just take the chest and go in peace” He is about to hide the chest and we are still following him. He is going in “peace” to hide it. Perhaps a Y in a road, a creek, a path?

            Then note in stanza where he changes tenses of the poem from…”I must go” (note: he does not say…I have gone). Then he changes tense and states…”I’ve done it”

            To me the chest is hidden in stanzas 4 and 5. Stanza 6 possibly tells where to find it specifically once at the final location.

            My latest attempt has it worked out this way up throuugh stanza 5 and the fiirst line of stanza 6, but I cannot make good sense yet of the last two sentences. Maybe you have to be on the ground for this.

            This is my latest thinking on it for what its worth.

      • An architect thinks 3 dimensionally and considers the person who will be occupying the space. IMO it took 15 years because FF figured out how to marry blueprints, codes etc. to literature, nature, and perhaps most importantly memories that are meaningful to him. Decoding is key, but don’t miss the other dimensions.

        Frank Lloyd Wrights philosophy of nature, God, and how man should fit into his environment ‘may’ match some of FF’s ideas.

        • Slightly off topic, but to reply to your comment about “God, and how man should fit into his environment”.

          Late yesterday afternoon while sitting in my yard, I was gazing out over the lawn and noticed the honey bees gathering nectar from the clover in my lawn. I thought about the loss we are experiencing in the bee population.

          As the sun started to go down and the air began to cool, I watched as they slowly but surely started leaving my yard. Obviously, this was the time of day in which they return to their hives. In my mind earlier that day, I had decided I was going to mow the lawn the next day. I reconsidered and decided to do it as early as possible before the bees became active. I would only hope that others would take the time to stop once in a while and “see” what we are doing.

          • astute observation German. Today, most people just want their honey. little consideration given to the fact that we borrow Nature’s environment from our children.

            (Plumbing leak at Nor’s house today. Back to mopping, as life continues outside of chaseworld).

          • Ran out of sugar, so I used a teaspoon of honey for my coffee. Irony of it was, the bottle said “Clover Honey”.

          • german-
            In that regard- I have noticed a serious decline in the bee population in my yard over the past two years. Not only have I actually seen fewer bees by a factor of at least ten but also witness the absence of fruit as a result. Last fall I had a hive of bees in a large sword fern next to my house. I had to work on that side of the house and worked out a deal with the bees. I worked only before noon. After that I did not go near their home. They seemed to generally be okay with that. I am not making this up when I say that the bees, in groups of two or three, would actually come out and hang in the air next to my head and appear to watch what I was doing for a couple of minutes and then go about their bee-like business. It was a pleasant experience. They never came after me in spite of the fact that I was often working within three feet of their hive. Sadly, they did not make a presence this year. Last week I took a look at their old hive and it was filled with fungus and hundreds of dead, desiccated bees. I am very concerned about the loss of bees. Many folks on the island are purchasing tubes of Mason bees to increase the bee presence here.

          • I wish everyone there luck with getting back their bees. I have been seriously considering getting a queen, so I can breed them on my property as well. The city’s regs on that would probably preclude most here in town to raise them in close proximity to other’s property, but luckily my property is the largest on the block so I shouldn’t really have any problem.

            Strangely enough, this was the first year that I had a decent harvest from my cherry tree. The plum tree is in close proximity to the cherry, but didn’t fair as well. I thought it would produce a decent crop as well. Guess you have to abide by Mother nature and her fickle ways sometimes (and big local community of bees of course).

          • I don’t like to see bees die by getting mauled by way of a vehicle when their honey is so good. Some would resort to horse drawn carriage to avoid killing bees. Sounds good, I guess. The bees would probably fair better in the trees with flowers around where the cars had to travel slowly only one way to avoid killing many more by higher speeds and double the direction of travel. Diversity of flowers opens the door to many wonderful flavors of that sweet nectar. My grandpa introduced me to honey. He used it in tea and coffee and plain, drizzled on toast.He would also pour some over a mound of cottage cheese. That’s my favourite! Long live honey!

    • Within the framework of a ‘literal’ interpretation of the poem there’s enormous latitude with determining the literal meaning of each word, phrase or ‘sentence’, due to the ranges of meanings for each word, which are in turn modified by the context. It’s always in flux to a certain degree, and open for interpretation by the individual reader. The wide range of possible meanings for ‘halt’ have been discussed, as have virtually every word in the poem.

      Everyone is involved with trying to understand the word sense: comprehending the intended meanings of someone else’s words. This is obviously compounded by the fact that the words are part of a poem, which by its very nature might deviate from standard dictionary meanings of words and lean towards the meanings or emotions being evoked by the writer over more pedestrian meanings.

      Poetry allows freedom from standard usage of language, and is used by people who might feel constrained by prose. Forrest is very fond of poetry and deliberately chose it as his vehicle for his tale about the treasure chest. Forrest also enjoys writers such as Lewis Carroll, who’s noted for serious deviation from standard word meanings and delving into mathematics and nonsense as applied to storytelling, poetry and literature.

      When I read that this poem is literal, I think that it’s closer to the ideas that Forrest has offered such as it being ‘deliberate’ and ‘straightforward’, and that there are no games here. So the poem is pretty serious and not gimmicky, and the author always ‘leans toward the subject’, and it’s chock full of hints buzzing all around the central hive of more prominent clues.

      I don’t think he set out to reach for the most obscure word meanings, but distilled them down to the most suitable. And yet we also know that he admits to making up his own words, and that it only matters that people understand his intent. I believe he made up at least one word, but it’s disguised by the fact that it is also a real word, so there’s a dual meaning.

      I don’t think that Forrest dislikes dictionaries. He admits to using the dictionary to look up words in the creation of his poem, and probably enjoys finding connections between words and history. I feel he’s just not bound by the dictionary, and they’re his first go-to source. His first go-to source is himself.

      Like a well-prepared architectural drawing, every element in the poem is essential, there is nothing redundant or irrelevant, it is concise, and every piece supports all the other pieces in a contiguous whole. Everything is working organically and properly like a living thing or a fine clock. This is what I believe he meant by deliberate, that everything has its place. However, there is a hierarchy, as there would be in any architectural drawing.

      Some words, while they cannot be disregarded or discarded, may not as critical as others. So you have to determine the priorities. But there’s a flip side to this, and that’s why you need to look at every word: The 9 clues are needed and they are the top priority and the goal, but you might not be able to determine a clue if not for the tiniest of hints to reveal it to you! So Forrest is watching to see who can sort it out.

      Each ‘sentence’ has important information for finding the solution, but I don’t see each ‘sentence’ being a clue unto itself. I’m not considering all pertinent information in the poem to be a clue, one of the 9 clues. Forrest’s words contradict this concept, I believe.

      Regarding the idea of a map to the treasure, I believe that by understanding the poem first and then its directing you to actual maps, a treasure map is created. I don’t see everything in the poem as giving you something that’s mappable. I think Forrest expects you to have a clear picture in your mind/imagination of the clue solutions, then piece them together, then see the path to the treasure before you go, and then it’s time to go. But I AM looking at the poem as a poem (that’s what Forrest calls it, “so I wrote a poem”…), with clues to be solved, not as map in poem form.


        • I think you are pretty much 100% correct on what you have said. Forrest himself said the poem makes a map.

          • JohnnyRev, I hope my interpretation and sense of direction navigating thru the clues is correct. On my last search I ate a huge slice of humble pie 🙂

      • Halo,

        I very much enjoy your dissertations, because they make one think. I believe we both are critical thinkers. However, we both may be formulating our conclusions on how each of us perceives Forrest Fenn. I can’t and shouldn’t try to counter your argument with my own, as both could be valid (in as much, as we each see him differently). So please, continue sharing. I am sure there are others that would get as much enjoyment out of this as I am.

        Regarding “the idea of a map …”, by definition, would it not fit as a diagrammatic representation of an area? If so, then clues which contain landmarks, such as rivers, roads, etc., can be considered parts of a map.

        BTW, what was your degree in, if I may ask.

      • Halo, I understand everything you are pointing out!
        I look at the poem like a six story building. Each brick (word) is stablizing it. But there are weight bearing words that give you the clues. Like paddle as in row, drawing as in glyph. Hie as in water”high”. He says to read the definitions of each word in the poem. Ten pages and 20 hours later, I had my break down of the poem and found hie-row-glyph then it said “If you’ve been wise, and found the blaze,”! Wise is obtaining knowledge thru study. Boy, did I study! I also figured out “Riches new and old”.
        Currently working on WWWH. It must contain a canyon and from there, I will know HOB.
        Fenn was asked if HOB was a ” thing”… he replied, ” In a word…yes.”. Taken literally, it could mean the word “marron” , spanish for brown. And “si” or “ci” for yes. This is how my logical head is working.
        I’ve obtained a list of all warm water waterfalls with canyons that are 8-10 miles long, in the area of a pueblo/ reservation and have a great list, some even have old pueblo churches in the canyons! A real bell ringer!
        Now, I have to google earth them all and eyeball them and read about their history and, of course, see if they are a fishing environment.

        If two searchers figured it out, I will too!
        Sorry so long! Good luck! ¥Peace¥

          • Agree with you Einstein.

            HOB could be both a “thing” and a “place”. Is “home on the range” a thing or a place…or both? Same with Home Sweet Home or Mr. Fenn is at “home” in the mountains…thing or place?

  16. I am not promoting this. I do not know this company nor Tom. Was sent this by Tom and asked to post it…

    Bear Hunter Productions is teaming with a major TV network to produce a series about individuals in search of the Forrest Fenn treasure. We are currently in the process of casting before the network will green light the project. We are in search of dynamic personalities who have looked/are looking for the treasure, and who think they would be a good on air personality. Interesting, entertaining, and experienced treasure hunters are all welcome to contact me at tsa424@gmail.com if they are interested.


    • How many of these production companies have you been getting these offerings from over the years Dal. Many seem to loose interest. At most you get more of the news crews, for short term reporting.

      • I guess there have been 6 or so. Most can’t raise the money to go forward. Forrest plays a crucial role in all these TV show ideas and he really isn’t very interested in being a reality TV star…as you can well imagine..

        So when the money guys here “no Forrest” they say “no money”…and everything fizzles..

        Maybe some day someone will come up with a way to get funding..

        • I personally think that they are just people trying to find other people solves so they don’t have to work so hard.

    • I am an engineer by training which means I have the personality of a dead fish…so count me out!

      • same here. Although you get enough engineers together, and they will either create something completely baffling or start arguing the merits of star trek technology.

  17. GG you are so correct… there is amazement all around us. Thanks for being one of those people who can acknowledge such thoughts that some things can wait

  18. Hey guys does anyone know where Forrest’s new comment bout plumbers truck is located I can’t seem to find it thx

      • One of the commentators commented on driving past Fenns house every day and seeing (or not seeing) a plumbers truck. Think his UN started with the letter R, I don’t recall.
        The bee situation is tragic,. Summer quarterly issue of Earthjustice has great easy-read-but-learn-a-lot article on it. All our houses are built on sand.

        • Old Shadows, thx for the hush puppy, symbolism direction. much deeper level of communication and perhaps a place I’m reluctant to tread upon out of respect. Sorry about incorrect gender assumption. Being female, I’m personally too vain to admit being old with shadows. I still spend time applying war paint trying to camouflage old and my shadows. That should clear it up:)

          • I dont understand…. why is vanity genderized as “being female” ? And by gender extention, why am I being “attributed to” ? (pg 147).
            Heres a true personal experience of mine… In 1958 I tried to declare my Major as Architecture at U of Miami, Coral Gables FL and was denied because Architecture was in the School of Engineering, and engineering was “mans work’. It was suggested I major in Art History, so being a female in the 50’s, I took the female option. The next year I dropped out. Years later, a clean engineering came about, an engineering suitable for girls with pretty fingernails who needn’t take a piss behind an earth mover… it was computer engineering and it opened the engineering school for many girls, including my two daughters, one an electrical engineer and the other a civil engineer… and a final irony, my son is a computer engineer … but its ok, he makes weapons.

          • Old Shadows-
            I am sorry that you were denied access to architectural school, but thank you for your comments.

            I see that NAAB has reported in 2009 that 41% of architectural school graduates were women, and hopefully we are approaching parity.


          • Yikesarama…I’m chewing shoe leather today. Nothing but respect and kindness coming your way Old Shadows. Truly. Great job pioneering the computer engineering field and raising kids who are difference makers. You are waaay ahead of me. 🙂 Please pass my nexium.

          • Thanks. I apologize for my rant… outta place, outta time. By my 76 years of experience, I scoff at attributions by gender. Cant credit success or failure to it, and like sarcasm, it’s a ploy of the uninformed. (pg 113). 🙂

            Jeeze,so much good stuff in this book. Good hunting to you all.

  19. WWWH question: has there been past discussion about ww being tears? ie – they dry to salt on cheeks, but halt in heaven; just thinking outside the box, different angle since there are multiple ‘grave’ references in TOTC

  20. noun
    Definition of BLAZE

    a : a usually white stripe down the center of the face of an animal

  21. Big hint here. The horse pic is featured many times throughout the book. This info will not matter if you are not in the right area BUT if you started where warm waters halt (Fenns halt) then knowing you are looking for a white marker is huge.

    • Hush… you’re giving my solve away. Didn’t you notice my deflective stinky remark!

      • Are you talking about the white streak coming vertically down Blaze Mountain in Montana? You can see it on Google Earth

        • Hey Stan, don’t give that one out. I’d like to ski that blaze one last time in my life, trying to figure out if I can heli to the top. too old to hike it now.

          • Stan – A young, long-legged, fit, mans game to be sure. and I don’t fit any of those categories. btw it takes about 2-3 mins down depending on condition of snow & time of year. Certainly not worth the uphill climb after a great ski season. Give me Beaver Creek and chocolate chip cookies on the hill 🙂 At 53 I want the thrill without the hike.

  22. Re: “plumber’s truck”. Sorry to confuse, I previously stated “go by ff’s house almost daily and have not seen a plumber’s truck”. There is no mention of a plumber’s truck in his Forest Fire latest comment. I merely was hoping to stimulate conversation as regards this unusual comment by f. His whole comment may be a red herring or possibly tug on our collective bridle to get us back on track. May we ALL be blessed with positive experience thru this chase.

  23. First time to post on this site and that is saying something…big.

    If you wish to know what my post was…oh, about 1.5 hours ago…that caused Stephanie to shut down her “Sour Grapes” thread over at her place please send me an email. My gut feeling is that this site would most likely delete the post as well. Unless I get explicit permission from Dal to post it here, it will only be available from me directly by email.

    It appears a hot button has been pressed…

    Old Timer

    • Old Timer,

      I read Stephanie’s posting of the letter, and I would think the letter alone was reason enough to shut it down, and to cause many other things as well.

      Although I also read posts previous to it, I would be interested to know which post of yours you are referring to.


      • I would be happy to send it to you. b i g co i n c o l l e c t o r at g m a i l dot c o m.

  24. Addendum to above comment: I believe his “dizzy send me a Tylenol” comment really only reinforces his priority of WWWH and to possibly dissuade what may be tangents created by omission of the letter “d”. I remember dwelling on his spelling Navajo with an “h” and being prompted to spend considerable time on chase data correlated with the Navajo reservation. I believe ff is technically aware and quite studious and has a propensity to disguise these traits in a “awe shucks” persona. Bye all headed back to the Rio Grande Gorge.

  25. @Radcrad – Forrest Fyre’s comment reads, “I’m getting dizzy, will someone send me an Extra Strength Tylenol. My address is…. To my knoyledge that’s the only PO box I have now. The other one I had halted when hot water poured out of my hot water heater onto the cold cement floor.” It is an unusual comment if from others, but typical of Mr. Fenn. Could be red herring, hint, or simply a way to let chasers know his address to return the bracelet.

    Just thought we should quote exactly, if we are discussing what Forrest said.

    • knoyledge is an anagram for “Golden Key”. He’s said you have to find the key in the poem, didn’t he?

      • John B, thx I think that’s helpful. I get lost on the anagrams and puzzles. My key word is treasures and my key is a landmark. Do you believe I must find another key in the poem? I ask because I’m planning another trip this summer and thought perhaps I was ready.

        • Nor, you still concentrating in the same area as we discussed last by email? If so, good luck. Sept?

          • @James, how is your group my friend? I am still concentrating on same area but attempting to reach a cliff area from a trail on a plateau in a different corner than last time. May hike it with my brother – trying to make plans last weekend of July – Still up in the air. Fairly confident the area is right, but always second guessing my exact spot due to conversations on the blog. Wish you and yours well James 🙂

        • Nor,

          I have found two riddles in the poem that are key to my latest solve attempt. Solving the riddles point to a specific location…doesn’t mean it is the right location though.

          • Wind, would you share the 2 riddles? (Obviously not the solves)
            I’ll trade any info I have that may assist your research.

  26. I do believe there are small hints in all of f’s comments and some don’t catch them and become angry .some don’t believe the chest is out there but I do and study away from the blogs and just use it for help and Norwegian has been a big help to me and do appreciate you for that.imo this is a place to come together to help one another and share adventures. Dale has done a great job at this .A place we can all come to and discuss things and what a opportunity mr. Fenn has given us all chance of a lifetime but we have to get along this quest is do able please excuse my red neck lingo and I didn’t chime in on the part where people wanted dal to quit, come on he’s not getting inside info or this would be over years ago just get your heads back in the poem and your feet back on a trail and this will get done

    • Good advice Old Choctaw. You speak true. Hope you can get back out on the trail. Until I can truly solve the poem I most likely won’t be on the trail again. Hope you are. Happy trails as you walk in the sonshine.

      • I too liked Old Choctaw’s comments.
        I have also cancelled my trips until I can find a viable solution to check out.
        Wonder if Forrest has saved us burning a lot of fuel with his latest comments.
        It is frustrating not having a logical starting point. 🙂

        • Specialklr – hate to burn fuel, and time away from family unless completly solved which may never happen for me. Trying to get back to my “BT” days… before treasure days when life was simpler. May not follow blogs much in the future as takes up much time and energy.

    • Old choctaw you not hiding around them spiro mounds or the runestone are you- what about the treasure of those muscadine grapes wow they are big! ready for early sept to get some.

      • I’m starting the planningof my quest to my solve. Imo and after3 failed attempts this solve looks hopeful .as for the grapes not a big fan but a young deersteak sounds good.

    • Jenny, thanks for the link. That’s interesting, now we have the great “white streak” mystery.

      Q. Did you really say the blaze is a white streak, as has been rumored? Thank you. ~Deb

      A. Thanks Deb,
      No, I did not say that. There is a lot of bad information floating around the blogs and many posts that are not well thought out. One person said (I’m paraphrasing) “He said the treasure is hidden in the trees. Then he contradicted himself and said it was in the sun. How could it be both.” Makes me wonder if that person has ever been in the forest.f

      I enjoyed reading Fenn’s story about Fechin……thanks for posting that.

      • Lets throttle this blaze rumor before it gets far along..
        The reason Forrest answered the question on Jenny’s blog that way is because the entirely wrong question was asked…by someone who heard bits and pieces and made assumptions…and in the end asked an uninformed question….
        Let me explain..

        During a recorded interview with Forrest in May of this year an interviewer asked him (paraphrasing) What’s a blaze?

        I was at this interview and was listening intently.

        Forest answered the question directly. He did not say what he meant by “blaze” in the poem. He instead talked about what a generic “blaze” is.

        I cannot begin to quote exactly what Forrest said but what impressed me was that he repeated several times that a blaze is “white” and he used examples..most memorable was the “white blaze” on a horse. He repeated rather emphatically that a “blaze” is a white streak or mark.

        He was NOT talking specifically about the blaze in his poem. He was speaking generically and answering the question about:
        What is a “blaze”?

        After the interview I went to Desertphile’s Fennboree. I mentioned this incident to Desertphile and others at that event.

        I did not say that Forrest said the blaze in the poem is something white..
        I did say that it was interesting to me that Forrest was so emphatic that a blaze is something white and I wonder if that means the blaze in the poem is white.

        We chatted about that for awhile before I left Fennboree.

        In the month since that event the idea that I said that Fenn said that the “blaze” in the poem was white…has been spreading.

        I never said that.
        I was, in fact, quite cautious NOT to say that.

        Forrest never said that the “blaze” in the poem was white.

        It would be nice to be quoted correctly…just once …

        But beyond the issue of people putting words in my mouth, I think we once again have to face the very real concept that there are people out there who have no interest in accuracy. I see statements quoted improperly on a daily basis on this blog from people who got it wrong and others going off in a tizzy believing what they just read.

        Be careful what you believe. If you were not there or you do not have the document in front of you..
        Be very cautious about what you believe he said.

        In my opinion, Forrest’s words are deliberate. He occasionally makes mistakes but more often he does not.

        If that question and answer made the final cut of the interview we will all hear it together and you can decide for yourself if he was suggesting his blaze might be white or if he had no intention of suggesting that his blaze is white.


        • The interview aired today on Dateline in Australia. It will be on youtube in the near future. It may include Diggin Gypsy, Forrest, folks at Fennboree, YNP head ranger Tim Reid, a ranger in New Mexico and others…
          and..if it made the cut…the question about a blaze..

          • Simple answer to what a Blaze is: it is a trail.

            Example: he was the first to blaze a trail through the jungle.

        • Dal, Once again, you have gone out of your way to guide the misguided down a road that is quite invisible by any stretch of the imagination!! Thanks again…

        • I o saw an opportunity to ask Forrest firsthand and put an end to that rumor. Everyone knows how rumors work, don’t they ? 🙂

          Thanks Dal

        • On June 24, 2014 Dal said:

          “It would be nice to be quoted correctly…just once …”

          There ya’ go!


        • OK, I’ve got it figured out. Fenn kept talking about white blazes, that mean the real blaze is black. But Fenn would know we would figure that out, so the real blaze is actually white………maybe it’s red.

          WAIT….I got it. The RGB color code for white is 255 255 255.

          RGB code has 24 bits format (bits 0..23):

          RGB = (R*65536)+(G*256)+B , (when R is RED, G is GREEN and B is BLUE)

          White RGB code = 255*65536+255*256+255 = #FFFFFF

          Notice the Hex # of white is all F’s……I nailed this one.

          WAIT…….that sly dog Fenn knew we would figure all of that out. So the blaze is colorless (the same color as its surroundings) so we are running around looking for a colored blaze and walk right past the real blaze. Ha!……gotcha on this one Fenn old buddy.

          So that clears up what we are looking for…..doesn’t it.

          • Hmm Goof-
            Seems a tad complex considering he has a sticky note on his keyboard that reads:
            CONTROL + “A” = SELECT ALL

          • Ya think……Ok scratch all of that……What does Ctrl A really mean.

            He has the location of the chest written down right next to his keyboard.

          • or possibly it’s the “unlock” command for his satellite web camera that is focused on the chest so he can tell if it’s still there…

    • Terrific piece on Nicolai Fechin. What a master of form and color. Thanks Mr. Fenn for introducing him to the art loving crowd following TTOTC.

  27. I’m guessing the dizziness and the giving the P.O. box out again is a reference that someone went to Lost Creek Falls and took the chest as I directed them. Once they send the bracelet back he will announce it as a done deal.

  28. Wait for it. Here it comes.
    No, not the weekend!
    Heavy loads and water high invading north Texas tonight. Uprooted trees and gully washers may reveal treasure floated back to Forrests old haunt.

    • Had just the opposite reaction. Feel confident there’s one less serious competitor. 😉 (eg There was no reason to choose DoubleL ranch / that contraction other than random choice… Why not ” it’s” or “you’ve”? + ‘not associated with a structure’ means just that. )

    • LOL it was great I loved it! but, it was Einstein how said Keep it as simple as need be so feel confident in your solve

  29. Thoughts on stanza 5,

    I find stanza 5 to be very curious. Mr. Fenn begins stanza 5 with a question…the only question in the entire poem. Why does he take this tack? Somehow I feel the question-mark is important.

    Tired and weak sounds a lot like being “Exhausted” Could this be the infamous missing “X” that marks the spot?

    This stanza is endgame stuff so somehow what is hidden here must be important.

    • Dal, thanks for posting both of these links.

      These videos do a lot to spur the chase enthusiasm!

      The contrast between your hunt and that of Diggin’ Gypsy was a great visual.

      • thanks Dal ! I enjoyed the piece, it was nice finally seeing some of the searchers . Desertphile , yes you are nuts. 🙂

        • Slurbs, I agree – it was very nice for those of us who have never met Mr. Fenn to enjoy his interview.

          • Vdub-
            You know there are many video interviews with Forrest on this page…also links to print and radio interviews.
            Look at the Media Page and look at Forrest Speaks…both part of the index on the right near the top…

          • Right, thanks Dal! I found them on your media page and genuinely appreciate your outstanding web site.

    • When the poem is being displayed on the map, Brown is not Capped….. Producers error I’m sure….

      • IMO producers error. FF capped it because it is a proper noun, even if brown isn’t part of the name.

    • Hey Dal,
      I’m a longtime lurker, first time poster. I will be brief but I would like to say how much I appreciate, as I’m sure most do on here, the amount of time and effort you put into maintaining such a great blog, so that you. Forrest brought up an interesting point in the video that I have always been under the opinion of but also contradicted something that had written about in this post: http://dalneitzel.com/2013/03/17/bandelier-national-monument-not/. Forrest made the comment that north is anything above 270 degrees and 090 degrees. I have not given Bandelier much thought but according to Forrest’s definition of “northerly direction” it could be a possible location. The only reason I found it interesting is because if you Google “5000 ft to 10200 ft”, Bandelier National Monument is the second item to come up because those are the nearly exact altitudes of the monument. As I said, I haven’t given it much thought but I found that interesting.

      • Seabee-
        Yep..The Bandolier piece was my writing and reflected why I felt Bandolier could not be in the search area.Forrest now says, according to what you just saw, that Bandolier is in the search area.
        I am pretty much against his reasoning but it doesn’t matter much what I feel is North of Santa Fe…what matters is what Forrest feels is north of Santa Fe..

        Maybe I should take that story down…or maybe put a disclaimer at the bottom saying Forrest has indicated that North of Santa Fe to him includes the area where Bandolier is at…

        What do you think?


        • Dal, you qualified as your opinion.
          If you erase everyone’s opinion, then we would have a blank blog.
          Please leave it. 🙂

        • I think a disclaimer added at the bottom would be fine, those that wish to search in Bandolier will have all the information to choose if they would like to search. My son wanted to search there but he wasn’t sure it was north enough. This info might change his mind.

        • I want to clarify that I respect everyone’s opinions and I wasn’t challenging you personally. Your definition of a northerly direction certainly made sense. I would agree with the two previous comments from specialklr and Cheryl to leave it. It was a great post and I’ve referred back to it several times. As I stated, I haven’t given Bandelier much thought but according to the map in TFTW and Forrest’s clarification of what a northerly direction now is maybe there will be some people who are interested in the area, so I say leave it up.

          • He is including the area of Bandelier, and anything north of it. That doesn’t mean because he said Bandelier everyone should take that as the destination of the week to dig up. Listen well people. 🙂

        • I’m shining my crystal ball, and trying to remember where you advised me that Bandolier was not N…I remember saying that we were taught that anything N of due E & W would be north, even by one degree. I’ll find it. I guess I have a complex now. So many times I have said things that are IMO and get shot down. Now, to find out I was right all along!!!!!!
          I was in the USAF -Search & Rescue/radio operations and do have SOME sense of direction!

          Also said it was not likely buried, now, that has been confirmed, “it’s not likely anyone would get that close (12′) and not find it.”f. Impossible if it were buried!
          Sigh…feels good to be right sometimes!
          (Comments not intended to be snarky!)

          • Don’t give up your spades yet, everybody … He didn’t say you’d be able to see it within 12′, just that it’s unlikely not to be found in that proximity.

            “I never said it was buried, I never said it wasn’t ” still stands, in my opinion.
            That, plus ‘you’ll go with confidence’ means it can be buried, if you figure out a way to know its buried IMO
            (plus, for all we know, the blaze is a shovel with an engraving on the handle that says “dig here” 😉 …& you look quickly down in the hole you dug 🙂 )

  30. World Cup…anybody watch today…LOL It was a biting fest. Thought at first the guys where weak…turns out a weird situation. They were getting bitten. WTF!

  31. 2 possible solves for “I can keep my secret where.”

    “I can keep my secret where”
    I can keep my secret “W” here
    W = U U (double U)
    UU (for the uranium crowd, or double rainbow crowd)


    W = UU
    Greek Upsilon translates to = F, V, W, U
    UU = FF
    ” I can keep my secret FF here.”

    By the way, I love this since my initials are also V F W 🙂
    I’ve also skied the largest blaze in N. America while driving a chevy Blazer nic named “Blaze” The irony goes on and on.

    • All of that sounds like over complicated codery.

      How about this:

      Two can keep a secret when one of them is dead. The secret is kept forever when the other one dies. In this case, he had planned to die with the chest at a location that has not changed. So, the secret will be kept where he had planned to die when he dies. It definitely suggests that there is more. The question is: will the secret be revealed when the chest is found or will it remain a secret?

      I think it’s that simple.

      • I agree with you Crazy Family… and would stake my solve on your premise. Have you considered WHO the “other” person is who is deceased? I believe discovering that holds many answers to Fenn’s puzzle, but am reluctant to ask That question out of respect for the dead. (I have 3 possibilities in mind)

        • Not implying that I know, but I don’t think it will ever come out. It would be too big of a clue.

          • Crazy fam, believe you are correct. i suspect son.orbrother but if so, some losses r so painful for lifetime that what good is it to relive. having come close to experiencing same loss I have nothing but private compassion and will keep it so.

      • Crazy Family, I believe I found my answer in a photo where only another mother would notice subtle nuances. All along I believed the photo reinforced a Spanish theme, but much more to swallow. The answer of who doesn’t give me a solve, and it may deter me from moving forward. somethings should not be intruded on ever IMO.

    • ah, yes. the white and Purple gold of the Native Americans. Nice connection Old Shadows. Wouldn’t it be fun to see Fenn’s collection of wampum strings? I would trade the entire treasure (minus emerald ring) for a day in his vault to see the personal Fenn collection. Not kidding about that.

  32. I thought wampum meant … money, beads, trinkets for trading. Are you in the OED? I only have Miss Merriam.

    • You are correct Old Shadows. Your engineering mind is precise, and I appreciate that. I come from a business marketing background and so equate money, trade currency with gold. Also have an art history background which often leads to other interpretations. The white and purple shell beads were a precious commodity to the NA’s. The dictionary will tell you that’s where we derived the phrases: clams & shell out the money.

      In answer to your reference ?, I have miss Meriam on the shelf, but also look at 2 other on line sources because I so enjoy the background of words, and wish to be thorough.

      • Thanks, sorry, no engineering mind, probably would have flunked the math anyway. Just infatuated with the homes in my childhood’s neighborhoods, Oak Park, IL (Frank’s places). I enjoy the evolution of words & ideas too. Theres a word for that, but I always get the buggy one.

        • Old shadows, i get Entomology, but not your buggy reference? something to do with frogs:) Also, the FLW connection is part of my solve and I love his work. Also, Hemmingways home in Chicago was built by flw.

          • Miss Merriam sez:
            entomology, study of insects.
            etymology, study of history of words
            batrachology, study of frogs & toads… which I thought meant the study of bats.

          • Old Shadows – here’s a quirky tie in. Nose + white + ecology of YNP = white nose syndrome of bats. an interesting read on bat preservation w/in the Park. Interesting since FF spent so much time in caves.

  33. Just watched the video.
    Now let me ask a few questions and answer them so we all can start dealing in some logic.

    1) What has Forrest said about the secreting of the treasure?
    Answer: I hid the treasure somewhere in the Rocky Mountains. Note he has never said he buried it! Strike one for the video. We now know we do not need to dig, so save your money an forego a shovel. Do take a sandwich and a flashlight :).

    2) Ask your self ” If I were hiding something of great value for a treasure hunt, would I risk hiding it someplace where law enforcement or other controlling entities could have discovered me hiding it and halting my planned hunt?
    Answer: No! If one is paying attention to Forrest, one would have noted that he is acutely aware of the law.

    ( hypothetically speaking )
    Remember my friends the best place to hide something is right under someone’s nose.

    So in closing, ponder a childs imagination and keep in mind the things Forrest has been so kind to tell us. … Now lets see will my grandson have time from playing to read the poem and share his thoughts.

    • Chad, thanks for your logical, practical dealings.

      1. Forest Service land is the most legal and accessible IMO. FS online info permits Geocaching.

      2. TC could be right under your nose. However, if so, not sure it would remain undiscovered for 1000 years.

      3. I am such a kid at heart that pondering a child’s imagination comes naturally. However, if FF took 15 years to craft the poem, given his intellect, symbolic & technical way of thinking, background in archeology, art, history, lit, fighter pilot, etc. are we supposed to can all thinking and believe a 5 yr. old thinks like Forrest? Every adult in my room and on the blog thinks there is more to it.

    • something is hidden right under our noses

      and yet f says no one will stumble upon it or accidentally discover it

      both of those things cant be true at the same time

      so the 2nd one is true, and the 1st one isnt

      • Four principal noses of stone come to mind… but I think thats in Dakota. .

        • put your nose to the ‘grind stone’ (this one actually works with my solve in a way)

          bull nose (edge of marble)
          nose around
          on the nose = on the money

  34. !5 yesrs to write it….. I think its more like at times he put it off, just as he sez he put off actually hiding the chest, and then 15 years later, with some thought during those years he was ready , and so was the poem…

  35. I enjoy reading the ideas, and it’s good fun, but the reason there are so many different “solves” is mathematical.
    Say you find the correct 9 clues in the poem. Each clue could easily have 2 different interpretations.
    2 to the 9th power gives you 512,512 possible search sites.
    I believe the only way to find the treasure is to find the key to the poem. If there is no key, there will be no treasure.
    If found, the work will be done at the kitchen table, not in the field.

    • Wabi – ironically I’ve been camped at the kitchen table for weeks after searching my solve. The “good map” covers the table like a tent over books, notes, etc. and we eat in front of the TV.

  36. IMO Forrest Fire was dizzy and needed an Extra Strength Tylenol because a searcher mentioned Glacier National Park in that thread which is now closed. He had fun defining hot and cold to keep people from doing dumb things near dangerous ice and boiling hot springs. Since warm and cold are words used in the poem stanzas he is making sure people don’t confuse these words with extreme temps.

    • OK it’s pretty simple the problem people are having is they are putting their ideas first instead of asking what are you saying Fenn until Fenn becomes your GOD you will never hear from FENN.
      Being self centered will doom you to 1000 years of fruitless searching. Hot water from a Hot water heater could just be warm water from a hot water heater on cool concrete. IMO ff is trying to help but he wants a little respect and attention..:)

      • Pieces of 9 – Mr. Fenn has my full respect and complete attention. No worries there. and I for one won’t be fruitlessly searching. FF’s agenda is no doubt very important, as is the placement of the TC to bring the issue into clarity for all. Just a tadsad different than I expected, if I’m on the correct path.

      • @pieces of 9 – woah there partner… a little bit over the top for those of us who believe in God. Let’s remember that Mr. Fenn puts on socks and shoes just like the rest of us, even if they are golden socks 🙂

  37. Forrest said he is the only one who knows were the chest is…. It’s pretty quiet in the woods now… As it should be after a statement like that. 🙂

  38. Just saw the 21 June Forrest Fire post.
    Just saw the 21 June Forrest Fire post. Noticed he put in the d but put a y instead of w in knowledge.I am getting dizzy now. Good luck with the heater.

  39. Dal, Anyone…. Where is it that Forrest tells what he believes the difference is between a “clue” and a “hint”? Is there such a quote?

    • James, I tried but couldn’t locate the quote. Roughly paraphrased – there are 9 clues in the poem. There are Subtle hints in TTOTC if you can recognize them.
      How’s your solve going?

  40. I think the home of Brown is an olive jar and he put the title in the jar with the olive’s. Green olive’s and red pimento’s make brown cause green and red make brown. FF does talk about green and red quite a bit in his book. Warm water can halt in the jar when canned. The olive’s are in a salt water brine. Olive trees are old and olives are the new. I think the olive jar is in a wooden white cupboard if the blaze is white.

  41. My search now over, I would love to share my story with you all if you want to hear it. I’ll just start with the poem.

    WWWH This to me was where Mammoth Hot Springs flows into the Gardiner River.

    Take it (the river) in the canyon down. Gardiner Canyon.

    Not to far but too far to walk. It’s about 6 miles.

    Put in below the Home of Brown. The Gardiner River flows into the Yellowstone River. About a mile upstream is Bear Creek. This is where Bear Creek Gulch is which I’m sure most of you know, Joe Brown discovered gold in 1866. Joe Brown had a home cabin up there. You can still see the remains of it today.

    From there it’s no place for the meek, True that. Steep.
    There’ll be no paddle up your creek. This was an important clue to me. Up your creek! Go up the creek. Go up Bear Creek, below the Home of Brown.

    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
    My blaze was a big hydraulic mining scar that is still very visible today. Primarily because where they were blasting, the hillside was mostly SAND. If you want to see the blaze, you can see it easily from google earth, and it looks just like an arrow pointing down. The very top of the blaze is on the Brown mining Claim, which is owned by the Gallatin National Forrest. It’s legal to look for and take gold from a publicly owned mining claim.

    Heavy loads = Heavy lodes, they did lode mining in there.
    Water High = high pressure water; hydraulic mining, they did that there too.

    Look quickly down your quest to cease, I was standing at the top of the blaze, and I walked down and looked downstream. Then I found a stone claim marker that someone had put pink blaze tape around. The claim marker looked just like a crudely made TOMBSTONE! Dal, please download the picture I sent you. It’s of me and the claim marker. It had the number 5627 on it, which is the survey number of the Brown mining claim. This survey was done in 1899! What a cool thing to find!

    Continuing down the creek, I found more of these markers with pink blaze tape around them. Finally, the last feature that had been blazed with the tape, was a standing dead tree. It was a bearing tree for a corner marker. What to me was fascinating, is this tree was marked with survey number 5629, and you could still just barely read it, this tree was stamped in 1899! How cool is that?

    Now hear me all and listen good,

    Your effort will be worth the cold,
    You have to cross the creek,
    If you are brave
    to me this was a metaphor for the stone markers.
    He used brave in his book in reference to brave dead people and also mentions their grave markers.
    in the wood. This is the clue I thought I had, it’s kind of funny, but I thought very Forrestesque! Is that a word? According to the field notes from the original survey, one of the stone markers REPLACED an old wooden marker. In other words, the wooden marked was REPLACED by a newer model! or so I thought.

    There were so many other hint like features up there as well.
    Off of Jardine road there is a little lake called Bitty Lake.
    Right next to the Brown claim is the Gardiner claim. On the Gardiner claim is a cabin, you can see from the Jardine road. Miss Ford and the gypsy wagon are up there. (an old baby blue Ford country sedan, next to a horse drawn wagon with RUBBER TIRES!) sound familiar?

    I have so much more to share, if there is interest I’d love to do so, but I know this post is getting awfully long.
    So what do you think? By the way, my whole family thinks I’m crazy!

    • @Sweetpea – your solve is straight forward, your interpretations logical, your reasonable path sounds like you should have found the TC. I would enjoy the rest of your story. btw most of our families think we’re crazed with blazes.

    • Wonderful… loved the analysis… you may have the right area but just need a little more poking around.

    • Great story nice search found some really cool stuff i hope you took a million pictures of all of it

    • I like your solve – everything seems to fit doesn’t it. 🙂 It’s amazing how many sites can fit our different interpretations of the clues. Looking forward to seeing your pictures too. Did you send your write-up and pictures to Dal? Maybe he would put your adventure in its own thread.

      BTW – I think it’s in the MT/WY area too, at least that’s where I’ll keep looking. 🙂

  42. Sweetpea, Sounds like you had a great time and I like your reasoning. Would love to hear more. I have thought about that area at times but have my eye on another site in Montana that I hope to get to soon. My sister thinks I’m crazy too although she volunteered to come with me–she said that the thought of it all brought back great memories from our childhood when we would be drawn into the woods to do some exploring and to “get lost”. Looking forward to your pics. Do you have one of Browns cabin?

  43. The War for me, is a chapter I thought was the most important as far as hints go. When he talks about the clearing seen from the air, I thought about how it mimicked my blaze, it is quite striking from google earth (from the air) Seen from the ground, it is not nearly so remarkable. Obviously, aluminum grave markers and crudely made grave markers, figure prominently in the story. These stone markers that mark mining claim corners, look just like crude gravestones. A child would certainly agree. Aluminum markers are down there too, on two of the bearing trees.

    • I would say you better play it again sam and get right back up there sounds really good there wow! it almost has to be right in there somewhere really great solve

  44. I consider these two sentences confirmation hints of correctly solving CANYON DOWN: (straightforward logic – perhaps it will help someone)

    1.”From there it’s no place for the meek” a) the river itself has well known section of rapids below the HOB. b) the road following the river is equally dangerous noted by white crosses. c) historically, mountain man Joe Meeks was run out of this canyon by Blackfeet. Three different descriptions where one should not be devoid of courage.

    2. “The end is ever drawing nigh.” a) IMO the correct solve does veer left or continue making a sequence of lefts at the correct creek. b) your journey will end soon. c) FF’s journey of a lifetime is drawing near. c) ART/perspective term for the vanishing point continues to disappear with each bend in the river. Fisherman & artists would naturally appreciate the vanishing vistas on a winding river.

    I’m still in the Montana camp… wish I were there camping! 🙂

  45. Your effort will be worth the cold

    Your “f ford” will be worth the cold. How about that old Miss Ford that young lad Fenn loved so much.

    ford means ….A ford is a shallow place with good footing where a river or stream may be crossed by wading

    so how about “Your effort ( f ford) will be worth the cold means:

    The creek that f crossed just before hiding the TC……Even if it just means what it says..Your effort will be worth the cold has the same meaning and result as Your

    f ford will be worth the cold.

    Curious No?

    • I cross a ford to get to my location. That’s the point at which I start looking for the blaze.

      • UP,

        Hope you had a great trip. Recall the Mr. Fenn has indicated the clues are sequential. It is my belief that the ford (or f ford) that will be worth the cold comes after the blaze and not before.

  46. f posted a comment about “crean” on Jenny Kiles blog. It reminded me of a story by two local brothers, that remind me a lot of f and skippy.
    It seems that these two brothers were always up to mischief, and one of them had come into possession of a surplus parachute. They were car nuts from the git-go, so they thought they would play dragster braking with the parachute.
    They tied the chute to the rear bumper of their mothers’ old Chevrolet, and one got in the open trunk and held the chute, while the other got the old Chevy up to about 80 mph. Well when the chute was released, the chevy did indeed, jerk to a halt, nearly losing control, and throwing the trunk brother out of the car.
    Randy said his mother never did find out why the car doors never shut right after that, and they never said a word about the episode!


  47. Forrest is on the front page of the Santa Fe New Mexican this morning. The story is about the Pamela Shetron story. She was on the blogs saying that she had found it and finally wrote it up on her own blog. Her “find” is not the treasure I am looking for…nor the one I’ve seen pictures of, although some may be satisfied with it.

    I think Bruce wrote a revealing and fair story.

    You will have to register to read the full story. But it’s free and you can uncheck the boxes if you don’t want to be on their mailing list.

    Pam’s story of “finding the treasure” is located on her blog, here:

  48. Here’s my attempt at where The 9 clues are in TOTC poem: (all **IMO**)

    1. I have gone alone in there; my treasures are bold.
    2. Hint of riches new and old
    3. Begin it wwwh and take it in the canyon down.
    4. Put in below the home of Brown
    5. The end is ever drawing nigh
    6. There’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high
    7. If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down, your quest to cease
    8. Your effort will be worth the cold
    9. If you are brave and in the wood

    IMO some of the clues are part of a complete sentence and may be interpreted as one clue with several components which work together.

    In my solve, the only clues which perhaps didn’t exist when Forrest was a kid are new riches, and one type of heavy loads.

    My ‘worth the cold’ is weak compared to what I thought it should be on previous searches. No water or ice, but hopefully a small cave.

  49. An occasional commenter on this blog C.G.Knight has written a book titled Confessions of a Tactical Driver that has a couple chapters at the end devoted to his complex solution for finding Forrest’s chest. If you love complex solutions this one is pretty good…

    You can borrow the Kindle edition for free if you are an Amazon Prime Member. If not, the Kindle edition is $4.99 and you can get a paperback version if you prefer..for $13.50.
    I am not “promoting”the book..only making searchers aware of it.

    I paid for the Kindle edition and read the relevant chapters about the search in about twenty minutes. Knight takes us through a complex thinking process in a well written and concise manner…kudos for that..
    But in the end, I like my simple solutions best…

    Forrest said that all I need is a good map and the poem..or earlier, just the poem…so I certainly don’t think that a redneck with a wife and five kids and a beater pick-up is going to have the tools necessary to cypher his way through Knight’s solution. Much less a copy of Treasure: In Search of the Golden Horse. Much of Knight’s trail to his decoded solution cannot be found in the poem itself or on any map I’ve ever seen..

    It’s the simple solution for me..

    But still..Knight’s solution chapters are a good read..and so is the rest of his book…

    Look for it here-

  50. I have a theory about “Wise” and “Blaze” What about the saying…Early to bed and early to rise makes a man healthy wealthy and wise? What if being at the location before dawn, or at dawn is what makes it possible to find the blaze. Maybe the rising sun glints off quartz in rocks or something.

  51. Here’s an interesting question. There were 3 Mysterious Writing Q&A’s about the blaze that got my attention (1 from Ron, 1 from Becky, and 1 from Steph). He chose to answer Ron’s concerning the flashlight but passed on the other two which were more related to if anyone had seen it, mentioned seeing it, and could it be found in the poem or on the ground. At face value, it would seem that a simple yes or no answer to the others questions would be relatively harmless but he’s obviously concerned about giving something away.

    So the question is: What does his choice of answering or not answering tell us?

    Here’s one possibility that comes to mind; if the blaze isn’t a physical thing then you can’t honestly say someone had seen it. I think this holds for the flashlight answer since all he really says is you don’t need a flashlight. Thoughts?

    Here are the excerpts:

    Question posted 6/26/2014:
    Can the blaze be pre-determined by the poem or can it only be determined at the search area?- becky
    Becky, you are a rascal to ask that question and I have been sitting here for about fifteen minutes trying to decide what to say. Well, it has been thirty minutes now and I think I’ll pass on the question. Sorry.f
    Question posted 6/26/2014:
    Has anyone seen or mentioned the blaze to you? ~Stephanie
    Thanks Stephanie for the questions. I have read them several times very carefully. They appear subtle on the surface but they aren’t. A yes or no to either question would give too much away, so I’ll pass. Sorry, and I’m aware that some searchers will pick me apart for this answer.f

    Question posted 6/30/2014:
    Hi Forrest, I would like to know if the blaze can be found during the day without a flashlight. Thanks, Ron
    Perhaps your question is wrought with trickiness Ron. Are you really asking if the blaze could be in a cave where it is dark during the day, thus the need of a flashlight? If there is no subterfuge intended in your question then I would say yes.f

    • We can conjecture about omissions until the cows come home — they are infinite. That said, yes, the fact the he answered these and yet didn’t answer is interesting. Jenny had many other Q’s in queue; so think about what that means — FF may have had the luxury to pick and choose which to submit responses to – and he inluded several supposed nonanswers among them. Or Jenny edited. Hard to say. 😉

      But Marvin, you left out a very important critical one: is the blaze an object? ‘In a word, yes’.

      • In Forest’s world… Maybe the blaze is made up of several objects by way of melding which would legitablely be come one! His world is oh so much more different than ours.

        • James, that’s genius, and also how a Cananasta game is started. You have to meld with a combination of cards which add up to a score to start. 3’s are wild cards.

        • This has been my favorite type blaze to look for, where you have to be in the right spot to see combined objects forming one picture…good job.

          At least that’s one way to look at it.

        • James and Swan that makes a lot of sense to me. I’ve been wondering about the Canasta. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it.

      • I’m aware of the “single object” answer, and not saying that it isn’t an object….just trying to get some discussion going. I wouldn’t be too hasty to say that there’s nothing gain by looking at what’s not said.

        If the blaze is an object that has or hasn’t been seen what’s the harm in saying yes or no? How does that information provide a helpful answer? It must or he would not have agonized over saying.

        • As Forrest would say, “That’s too much of a clue” or “I don’t want to give that as a clue”.

        • I agree, what’s the harm of throwing some ideas on the table. Could be three different forms of the same element (ie water, wood, stone) or could be “F” which could show up a number of times on different surfaces and still be a single thing.

      • Map-
        I find that answer the most curious about the blaze. These are different answers than the ones he needs to come up with during a TV or radio or phone interview. In those he has to react to the question instantly so he is more likely to say something unintended and less likely to be crafty in his response. In his written responses he has time be creative in thinking about and writing his response. He can consider his answer and disguise it’s complexity in apparent simplicity if he chooses. In my mind this answer is a fine example of him giving a response that may very well contain a disguised clue.

        Is the blaze an object? “In a word, yes”.

        This response is particularly interesting considering how he answered other questions about the blaze. It certainly is thought provoking if you want to be thought provoked…
        It stands out to me as an unusual way to answer a simple question with a “yes” answer. So why go to all that trouble with all those extra words when he could have simply said “yes”…and been done. Why did he add “in a word”?

        I think it’s because he wanted to give us a clue…an intended clue…but disguise it because it’s fun for him to do that and also because he knew most would never see it.

        I think that very possibly “In a word,” contains more meaning than apparent on first reading.

        For instance- Is he really saying that the blaze is “in a word”?
        If so, the first thing that comes to my mind is the famous “HOLLYWOOD” sign in the hills above Los Angeles. Not that I think the chest is hidden in California..but rather I think of that sign because if he had, for instance, hidden the chest beneath the letter “y” in “Hollywood” and was using the “y” as the blaze in his poem then it would be fun and appropriate when asked “Is the blaze an object”? to answer..”In a word, yes.” because the “y” is obviously an object in the word “Hollywood”.

        So it’s possible he means that the blaze is a letter in a word…maybe on a large sign..because a letter is an object in a word.

        Another possibility is that a word is the blaze..not just an object in that word…but the whole word as an object…

        Some parts of what we think we know about the location of the chest gel nicely with this sort of interpretation…others do not..

        And maybe he is giving us even more information..maybe he is telling us that the word our blaze is found in is “yes”. In which case look for a big “Y” or “E” or “S”, or very possibly a big “YES” out in the mountains.

        But letters are not the only objects in words..what about glyphs?
        For instance we would not call a Japanese character that makes up a word a “letter” but we would call it a “glyph”. We sometimes refer to Egyptian Hieroglyphics as “glyphs”…a tie in to the Ibis/Thoth creature?
        And let us not forget “petroglyph”..

        So, in my mind this is an interesting simple answer that becomes even more interesting upon inspection.

        • I always appreciate your insightful, well thought out responses Dal. Thanks.

          (A nice break from sad international news of Malaysian plane shot down over Ukraine.)

        • Great response Dal. Given the scenerio in your first paragraph, I think he would be much more likely to dodge a spontaneous question with his often used “I don’t want to give that as a clue” rather than risk an unintended clue.

          And so, to me, it is much more curious that he ponders Becky’s question for quite a while and then passes. Especially the first part….if the blaze is a clue, and the blaze is an object, and the clues are in the poem, then logic would seem to dictate that the blaze can be pre-determined in the poem. Why not agree? For some reason he doesn’t want to say that.

          • Thank you Marvin for starting this sub-thread and its line of thinking.

            I enjoy mentally viewing things logically and systematically. I think you did a great job of that.

        • Good Dal… Ah but wait, what if Forrest’s trickiness is more. let’s look at the big picture. He loves to use words and twist what we would normally think about. What if the key word here is “in” a word, and not “in a word” ? Opens up a whole new area does it not? “in” can mean so many more things.

          • IMO – The Blaze is “in a word” and its “a word” and perhaps wise is as simple as the wise old owl whoo wears glasses to see it. I’m in the kid logic camp, although have only recorded a small portion (10 pages) of information that could fit the solve. Forrests poem may frustrate, but you have to admit the wealth of lit, history, art, geography, science that all fit is ‘mind expanding.’

        • Just to be clear, the question posed to ff was “Is the Blaze one single object?.”

          And Dal, can you expand on your thoughts about if a word is what ff is talking about how some parts of what we think we know about the tc gel nicely with this interpretation and some don’t? I’m trying to rack my brain with some connections and I’m drawing a blank…thanks!

          • fund-
            I was thinking specifically about the location of the chest. But I have more questions than answers.

            We believe Forrest, at one point, wanted to end his life where the chest is hidden. So one would expect it to be an isolated location…somewhere magnificent…where a man who holds the mountains dear would see his last vision on this earth as both satisfying and beautiful…and where a decaying body might not attract attention. Yet, we have also heard from Forrest that people were close to the chest and didn’t even know it. How could that happen in a remote location? How could a place be both remote and out of the way enough that 180lbs of decaying corpse would not attract attention, yet still be a place that folks would wander by?

            Forrest told us that we would be surprised when we found out where the chest was at. Does this mean it’s in a popular location? Near a place where there are glyphs?…a sign?…

            So how does that work? Why wouldn’t people notice a month old dead body in that location?

            This may have to do with how the chest/body is concealed/hidden and probably not buried…because Forrest could not have buried himself…

            I’ve always sort of imagined the location as a joke..one last laugh from Forrest. Maybe near a “Welcome to New Mexico” sign…But for reasons already mentioned, this doesn’t add up…yet it cannot be terribly remote or folks would not have passed by it…

            I know the argument…that some of the folks passing by it were looking for it…and I agree…but I don’t think that’s the case for all the folks near it. I think most were not…no evidence of that belief…just an opinion based on Forrest’s personality and history.

            So how do you align the two concepts? remote enough to not attract attention yet close enough that people would pass by without noticing the chest or a corpse?

            Two possibilities..
            First..I think the location is a place people drive by..but don’t necessarily stop at..Searchers and non-searchers have gone by it within a couple hundred feet as they drove on the road past it.
            Second…the way it’s hidden/entombed..not buried exactly…but probably underground…under rocks…not a man-made place but a natural place..not a cave exactly but a place naturally carved out of rock. A place people could stand on top of without knowing what was under their feet. A place guarded by petroglyphs. A place so peculiar that Forrest was the first person to see this place since the Indian who carved the petroglyph 600 years ago.A place forrest felt would be difficult to find in the next 600 years because it is right in front of us but we don’t see it. A place not more than a hundred yards from where Forrest parked his car when he hid the chest.

            There are other possibilities…herbs, wind and things I don’t know about but I spend a fair amount of time conjuring up the location of the chest…what that place looks like…summer and winter…

            It seems like every time Forrest tells us something it gets in the way of something else we think we know…

            I don’t have all this worked out…and as you have surmised some things work and some things don’t. Some things that he tells us do not align easily with other things we think we know.

            So am I looking for a big “Welcome to Colorado” sign on the side of the road between 5,000ft and 10,200ft? No..but I do think a glyph is a likely blaze..and I don’t think it’s remote and I also think that it will take a great deal of investigative work to discover the chest even once you are within a hundred feet of it.

          • Dal, fund, sure appreciate your out loud thinking/reasoning, although after my last failed search, I’m playing Canasta in solve rehab, well part-time. Will be next summer before I can get back there.

          • Dal,

            I see no flaw in your thinking. Given the points you have made, and the rational you are using to present them. However, there is one aspect you aren’t considering.

            Supposing everything you said was true, it still doesn’t take into consideration his body. If he returned to lay with his chest, he would have first considered not only the elements, but the wild life as well. If his body were somewhere animals could get to it (cave, desert, etc.), in devouring it, they would possibly be dragging it off somewhere as well, or parts of it. It could even be a pack of coyotes or wolves. This would leave behind the chest and possibly (although unlikely) enough of him to do a DNA test on his remains to determine identification. Alternatively, there is no body and the chest is found alone.

          • German-
            I have been playing with this “animal dragging corpse” issue since I first got involved in the chase. It is one of the fundamental puzzles of the treasure chest location. I don’t pretend to know much about death and Native American custom. I know that some tribes buried their dead others did not. If you bury deep enough animals do not get at the body. But I am assuming that Forrest did not plan on burying himself, hence the chest is also not buried. So the question is, did Forrest plan on hiding himself…secreting himself away where the animals could not find him. I think the answer is yes. In his San Lazaro book he describes a nook that was found by a visitor to the pueblo. It was in a place where Forrest and others had walked many times. But no one had seen the nook before the visitor. I cannot remember exactly what was in the nook but I believe it contained a couple of jars and some grain and some wildflowers…??? Anyway, my point is that this thing was completely unmolested. It was the same as the day the pueblo Indian left it there. Not even the packrats had gotten into it. I feel this might be a help in trying to understand how Forrest could have planned his exit without the possibility of being hauled away by animals after his death…
            We all know that many SW Indian remains have been found in shallow rock caverns that you can walk right up to. They are typically found with some of their belongings and jars of food for their journey. Their skeletons are often completely intact. No animal got into the space to feed on the body. This suggests that some natural places tend to be “critter-proof”…or that some treatment of the body made it unpalatable to carnivores. Further, it does not require above average strength or agility to get into these places. However, they are often tucked away in places that are difficult to spot. So this all fits with what we think we know about the location of the chest. But..I just throw this out for consideration…Maybe Forrest would not care if his body served as a meal for cats and bears and birds. Maybe his “spirit” would be comfortable with that outcome.

            I know the original poem is said to have a last line that read something to the effect of (paraphrasing) Take the chest but leave my bones alone…
            So it seems likely that he would not have wanted his body removed from that place. But it does not seem to be an impossible or even illogical possibility that a person with knowledge of Native American burial traditions could find a final resting place with a magnificent view, easy to get into, hidden from popular sight and also not attractive or possible for most carnivorous animals to climb into.

            It would, of course, be a “last laugh” if half the known universe was trying to find you but could not and the whole time you were within a hundred yards of where thousands of people travel every day.

          • Dal,

            I’d go with your “critter-proof” idea myself.

            I recall reading a story once, where Forrest was climbing with the assistance of a local guide in Utah. They were trying to reach a spot high up that contained some artifact that was hidden away in between some rocks (boulders) by the original owner(s). As I recall, they slept there on a ledge for the night. This leads to the possibility that he could know of such a place, that would be reachable at his age, but not necessarily in Utah.

          • I’ve noticed several recent ff comments that suggest that the location is now, at his advanced age, no longer a place he could get his body to.
            Makes me think its harder to get to than we might guess. Like a cave on a cliff face sort of place (though other comments, like the 3 yr old girl comment, make me think this is too extreme. )
            Impossible for an 84 yr old to get to Doesn’t mean necessarily the chest is hard to get.

          • Dal, you have made my day. It seems you are almost as lost as I am. I’m sure I’ve easily missed something.

            You stated for your first possibility that, “Searchers and non-searchers have gone by it within a couple hundred feet as they drove on the road past it.” Can you provide a link to that info?

            My memory brings me back to these statements:
            ♦ “Some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close”.
            ♦ People have been within 500’ of the treasure.

            I still do appreciate all you do! 🙂

          • Specialklr – I recall the 500 ft. statement from Forrest, but didn’t remember his stating people drove w/in 500 feet. Are you certain he said DROVE by it?? or perhaps “passed” by it (trail, walking, floating, driving)

          • Special-
            I never said Forrest said that…
            It’s not in quotes…
            It is not prefaced by anything that indicates that Forrest said it..

          • Hi Nor, if you will reread, you will notice that is the question I was asking of Dal.

            I hope he will give us some clarity. Have a great day. 🙂

        • Dal, maybe the blaze is the treasure chest itself.
          when you look down and see it your quest is over. You then look amazed at its contents, but don’t hang around just take it and go in peace.

          That whole stanza is just one sentence.

          If you’ve been wise and figured out that the blaze is the chest then your quest is over.

          • Although I don’t believe that the blaze is the TC…Just putting it out there.

          • ah ritt, simplicity is a beautiful thing at the end of the day! IMO you may be close to the truth. Once you are finally there, perhaps its also there.

        • Dal,

          Going simply on the solution I have to the poem,
          you are getting warmer with this post and the succeeding one IMO.

          Keep giving this some thought and IMO you may find what you posted about before, in thinking you may have missed something. I understand much in the answers from Mr. Fenn concerning the blaze and the hiding place of the chest. What you conjectured about the hiding place fits with what I found hidden in the poem. And it is a place both remote and yet visited.

          In fact many of his comments make perfect sense to me now. He is truly a master at double entendre, and I have found one should be very careful in the interpretations of things he says. When he speaks he normally means exactly what he says, nothing should be added or implied, and especially guessed at. This is the way I read him anyway. All my opinion of course.

          Good luck.


        • Dal,
          you’ve got a whole series of brilliant & wise thoughts here on this thread, and this one leads the pack. My compliments – whatever brand smart pills you’re taking, …buy bulk.
          Yes, the fact he chooses the phrases he does, especially when given time to write, is very important, IMO. I think you’re spot-on keeping that logic in mind at all times. …Consider what he was able to compose when given the time to make this poem 😀

          “In a word, Yes.”
          My take on that loaded comment is less literal than yours: This is a phrase that many jokesters, grifters, and poker players would use to say “sure, if I only had to choose one word to answer you with, I guess it would be more of a yes than any other option”.
          It’s a way to not tell the entire truth, yet have a core seed of truth. It’s used by witnesses trying to evade good questions. So, I red-flag this one as a good question: “Is the Blaze one single object?”
          i.e. There are a lot more words that could or should be used to answer this important question, but to keep things fair/fun/going, FF chooses to answer with the bare minimum and naturally, this leaves THE most number of options available.

          But he went on to define/name several of some searchers’ proposed blazes. Why?
          ♦Mark on a tree.
          ♦Side of a bluff
          ♦Spot on the head of a horse
          ♦Live owl

          I look for patterns. One that jumps out: How many of these words are 4 letters? Could the blaze be something that’s a word with 4 letters?

          Perhaps he embedded those additional words, the things that qualify the YES to the blaze question, somewhere in the rest of his answer, which was this:

          “In a word – Yes
          I have received a few hundred emails from searchers who are sure they know what the blaze is. Ideas range from a mark on a tree, a rock, a sign, a fire, the side of a bluff, a waterfall, a spot on the head of a horse, a rainbow, and even a live owl that flew away when it was approached.
          As a side note: with summer on the close horizon, searchers should review the rules about being safe in the mountains. f”

          …Why that side note? Safe in the mountain? A SAFE? That’s 4 letters too. 😉
          And saying summer’s close was true, it was late May.

          /end conjecture mode 😉

          • Great information Map & Dal. My theory FWIW on “in a word yes” the Y in the word yes could be a pictograph w/in the word. In addition to being safe in the mountains (rocks, snakes, falls, sudden weather) IMO could me a ‘safe’ in a mountain – small vault containing treasure. TIIT is another helpful word pictograph mined from the poem, as are OO’s. I found a 3rd grade paper I did on NA pictographs and like a kid am having fun looking for poem correlations.

        • Simple Dal. Say the blaze is a rock. When I think of calling something a object I think of something man made or something that stands along by itself.

          If the blaze is a rock formation part of a mountain or a “symbol” written on something that is a object, or whatever then it seem logical to say….”In a word, yes” or In a way, but I believe Forrest means to say this….

          If by object you mean something you can touch and feel then yes.

      • “In a word, yes” could be used to describe a blaze that is intangible.

    • Germanguy, OMG… Gonna order the book from Powells right now. My solve involves two graves… the real kind and a symbolic one, I wonder if this is in Prestons plot too.
      Have you read it all? What are the two graves?

      • No need to buy it, unless you want the hard cover. You can read it online.

        And no, I won’t tell you the plot. You’ll need to read it yourself. BTW, it’s a great read. Enjoy.

        • Grrr… I hate reading on-line, and I’m not much of a fiction fan, but I read the first chapter of this book and am very glad to have keep my money in my pocket. This comic book superdude detective and master of everything just might be a private joke between Preston and FF.
          I’d still like to know what the two graves are, but its too far to walk. Thanks anyway.

  52. So did forrest say don’t leave your house until u know where it is ?
    If that’s the case how do u know what the blaze is and where it’s at , surely u have to be at a location to find the Blaze right 🙂

  53. IMO: f states “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze” means past tense. To me he’s saying however he defines being “wise” leads to the blaze within the poem. If he wanted us to find the blaze “outside” it would read if you are wise and find the blaze.
    F has also said to me via email and other places that all I need is the poem, so then the blaze is in the poem. Any thoughts?

    • Also an “object” can be a goal.

      “Is the Blaze one single object? ~ Scout Around
      In a word – Yes”

      He could just be saying Yes there is a single goal.

    • The blaze is not the poem but it is a trail marker telling you your on the right path everyone has a different blaze but that’s the million dollar question the right and true blaze of mr. Fenns so all the other clues must be spot on in my opinion you would be amazed at my blaze but it could be the one in my opinion

    • JohnR,

      IMO yes, the blaze is found(past tense) in the poem and “if you’ve been wise” to get this far in the clues, there isn’t very far to go. And, if you believe Mr. Fenn, everything else you need is also in the poem.

      Do you also remember him stating, “thread a tract through the wiles of nature and circumstance”? There is great significance to that statement as it concerns the poem. He also said “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did”.

      IMO the architect employed natural features and word phrases as a structure to build around a single location he already knew long before he constructed the poem. He employed “sly tricks” with words to do this. And if memory serves correctly, he answered another question he was asked saying he was determined to make it work. He did a masterful job.

      IMO, we are only searching for this one location on a map and the structure of words must be opened up to see what lies hidden inside. This is what one must find, how to open the door, so to speak. He has also told us how to do that and it is in the poem, if you can find it.

      Good luck, it isn’t easy, but IMO possible.


      • samsmith – really interesting food for thought. Had forgotton “thread a tract through the wiles of nature and circumstance.” plan to work thru your statements and the poem like a set of blue prints.

        • Blue prints, structure, Architect etc. Can the blaze be found in the poem? of course. Is the Blaze a single object? sure. But many pieces can make a object, and a blaze may need to be constructed from those pieces. Is it still a single object if it’s made up of many pieces? In a word, Yes.

    • If you’ve been wise, then you have solved the puzzle in the poem and you already know what the blaze is. It really is that simple IMO.

      • Since there are so many of you so confident in your solution of the blaze, why don’t you just say what it is? I mean, Forrest said it doesn’t do any good to start in the middle, so it would be of no use to someone who hasn’t solved WWWH and hoB! See, no harm, no foul! Plus, the bravado’s getting a little deep again.

        • I already said what it is and posted photos on chasechat. I would do the same here if I could attach a photo with the comment.

          • Well, I just don’t understand how it is so “simple” and yet doesn’t produce the TC.

  54. Dal, I’m guessing Forrest is very resourceful in the environment, and perhaps considered the repellant qualities of sage brush which most animals and insects find repulsive. He could simply surround his body with sage brush in a cave or alcove of rock. Some birds actually build their nests in the ‘wood’ or sage underbrush on the ground and are protected by the sage. (In TFTW, Toys Are Forever chapter Forrest mentions juniper bushes being a hazard to recovering his toys. )

    Sagebrush is used by Native Americans as a smudge herb (an herb burnt for the smell). It is picked along with juniper, chaparral, desert tea and other herbs. When its leaves are powdered they can be used for rashes such as diaper rash. Its decoction, which is the water that it has been boiled in, can be used on bitten and irritated skin. The sagebrush’s smoke is offensive to many animals and insects and helps keep mosquitoes away. When wrapped around perishable food it will keep insects and rodents away.

  55. Wow, thats useful info, can fit into my solve. Nor, do you know if sage grows at all altitudes? Any special environmental issues? Thanks.

  56. Hi everyone, checking in on the blog after a few outings (searches) — regarding the corpse issue – I’ve thought of this and I thought I’d throw this out there if anyone hasn’t thought of it…

    aside from animals dragging the corpse away, there is the smell. Rotting bodies give off an incredibly strong, horrible smell. Assuming Forrest thought of this as well, this rules out the chest being somewhere relatively close to a place close to where the public would venture.

  57. That’s what I’m talking about! Why does Mr. Fenn include ‘in a word’? The same reason (perhaps) he includes ‘ever’, as in “the end is ever drawing nigh.” He could have easily just said “the end is drawing nigh.” So why did he include ‘ever’. What does it mean? Per Mr. Fenn – defining the words are important. Hear me all and listen good!

    • Sidd-
      The wordings in the poem make more sense to me because it’s a poem and syllables and rhyme are important…as in a song…
      Cleverness in vocabulary is important in poetry. But the answer to a question was not an attempt at poetry. He had the freedom to make that statement using any tempo and as many or few syllables as he wanted…

      • I agree, syllables and rhyme are important (in a poem/song), and he used certain words to make the tempo, etc. all work. And, of course, some words are relevant to the particular clue. For example – ‘waters’ vs. water, or including ‘ever’ or not. There is some intended meaning say I.

  58. And speaking of WWWH, I noticed some talk (on other blogs) of a curious website that was recently launched: http://www.wherewarmwatershalt.com. Anyone know anything about it? It is just one page, but seems to have some strange things going on there – coded messages, etc.

  59. Dal – forgive me if this was posted (I replied, but don’t see it): That’s what I’m talking about! Why did Mr. Fenn include ‘in a word’? Why did he included ‘ever’ as in “the end is ever drawing nigh.” He could have easily said “the end is drawing nigh.” Per Mr. Fenn – definiing (the words) is important. In other words, hear me all and listen good!

    • Sidd-
      For some reason your first version of this ended up in moderation…When that happens it stays hidden until Goofy or me come along and liberate it..

  60. With respect to “the end is ever drawing nigh”–
    I would suggest that the meaning is significantly different than if “ever” had been left out.

    • I understand what the “ever” means and why it is there. Or at least I think I do. We will see if I’m correct in about a month or so. I am not going to give it away so don’t even ask. Too significant to my solve. Forrest want us to think… So “think”!

    • Drawing nigh means its coming to an end
      Ever drawing neigh means ‘it looks like’ its coming to an end.

      Like driving down a long highway… it ‘looks like’ it ends up ahead, but it doesnt. Ever means endless. But this is poetry, so no telling what the precise meaning is.

      • “the end is ever drawing nigh” also reminds me of the times I’ve been on a river or stream where the oxbows and bends are hidden by trees. When you can’t see around the next bend, the vantage point appears to end – an artist’s perspective.

        • Yes, a river, a highway, a life-arc, like a mortgage, education, your nices dance recital. Things that never seem to finish when/where you expect. Fo evah!

          • Ha! Old Shadows, just as long as it’s a vowel and not a bowel problem. JK, couldn’t resist. I believe Vanna White exchanges vowels, perhaps she can be of assistance.

          • Hey Old Shadows, enjoy your day in blogosphere. over and out for me today. spending time with a friend who I can actually see and hear 🙂

          • Calling Pat Sajak.. Old Shadows has a vowel problem. Calling Vanna… we all have a consonate problem. Where is the missing F blaze for the win?? Can we buy letters? how about prepositions…with treasure; under blaze; below brown; to hide; down canyon; begin it where. Sounds like Pirate of Gold’s shenanigans — where is he these days? Anyone hear from Pirate.

          • I email Dal about him Nor. Dal said he has emailed or sent messages (can’t remember the wording) to him with no reply. Hope he’s ok. It’s strange, his disappearing, isn’t it?

          • @James, indeed strange that POG had such a presence on Dal’s blog and hasn’t checked in with anyone. I miss his candor and wit and truly hope he’s in a safe harbor with friends or family.

          • There are plenty of searchers we haven’t heard from in a long time.
            And I notice many of the folks that go off on a big search very sure of themselves become the silent ones.
            Humble pie allergy? might give some a case of Post- Fenn-fever laryngitis ? 😉

          • Yes Map those maladies come with the territory. Not many moons ago while telling her chase tale at the council fire Nor ate an entire humble pie in one setting and then cleaned her teeth with crow feathers borrowed from the brave named Michael D. 😉

            Wisdom and humility come to those who have humiliated themselves in front of Fenns tribe in the bragging rites ceremony. Forrest was right…embarrassment is the quickest teacher:-)

          • JC1117, ok… parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme… and tequila rittled on the side. Got it!

          • @JC1117, thanks for the biblical passage. It started my morning out right. You must have Love!

    • I concur! If indeed I’m listening well to what Mr. Fenn is saying (with this line), I’d be leaning more toward the end is . . . ‘continuously’ and/or ‘always’ . . . drawing nigh.

      I too think I know what ‘ever’ means here – in relation to the line in the poem. Time will tell!

    • Additionally, ‘ever’ can mean continue or continuously… As in continue turning right or continue to be led astray.

  61. it is only my opinion that – the end is ever drawing nigh – means – the end is father and to the left

  62. There are so many great thoughts in deciphering the poem. I have been discounting all my previous directions. So I am not thinking deep enough. I have to start fresh with a hot fire and pour new ideas into the mold of solve. There is one thing I feel, that the poem is a process in many areas of his life but I must start somewhere before I venture. Forrest went to the dump and retrieved bike parts to build bikes to sell to his friends. I also went and did them same thing but I keep the treasure I built from scratch. I put in my heart and soul into building my bikes, we were not fortunate. It was my marvel gaze when I was done.

    I do feel I am right about the last stanza.

      • Hi Amy,

        My life was much like Forrest. I can sit back and read his stories but in a different perspective. The Poem eludes all of us, yet he knows some have been close. We don’t know how he knows. My bet someone mentioned something on the blogs and moved on. Now I am looking at the Poem as 1 clue and all eight other clues are in one. Which stanza you are thinking, hmmm it not the one where warm waters halt that will lead you. I keep going back to his own website searching. I am just starting with a new slate the old one is cracked. Lol

        I have looked at so much in the past year. I am currently having a website built and the chase has given me more content.

        Anyway, here is the story link:


    • Jdiggins – what is your take on treasures (plural)?
      Lot’s of ways to interpret that one, and I enjoy hearing others perspectives.

      I’m not overly creative, but here’s a few ideas to kick around: 1. treasures bold could be different treasures in nature that Forrest enjoys (mountains, pine trees, meadows, grayling trout, etc) 2. treasures inside of the TC and/or additional treasures not mentioned 3. F’s family members would naturally be his greatest treasures

      • #1- is everyone’s treasures, but not major ones.

        #2- I found it interesting that in the introduction to the poem it states “the treasure” and the poem uses “his treasures”. I doubt they are the same.

        Ask yourself, what are your treasures? I like #3.


  63. In my best southern drawl, ” Ya alll make my head ert.”
    Now mind you I am entertained by some of what I read here. At other times I am dismayed at the complexity of what I read. Being a man of limited education I tend to live by the rule of kiss. “Keep it simple stupid” So armed I go forth with the poem and
    gather tidbits here an there. Please do not take offence to what I say, it is not meant as an insult to my esteemed colleagues here and elsewhere. Without giving away what I have found thus far I will say somethings are right in front of every searcher.

    Regarding one little tib bit ” As I have gone alone in there ” This is an introduction to a story. I’ll leave it up to you all to figure out why I say this. Hopefully it will give someone a new insight.

    Keep it comin Ya all 🙂

  64. Keep your eyes on Mysterious Writings..I think Jenny is going to have something for us in the next 24hrs…

  65. Dal-
    Not sure where to ask this but regarding the cheat sheet item

    – At least 8.25 miles North of Santa Fe

    Did Mr. Fenn ever specifically clarify Santa Fe, New Mexico or is it assumed he was talking about Santa Fe, New Mexico? Are we sure he was talking about the city?

    I couldn’t find this discussed previously.

  66. MapSmith – Thank you for reminding all that Forrest has said we underestimate how important it is to determine where warm waters halt. It has probably been discussed on past entries; physically and metaphorically warm waters of earth and tears of man end at the grave. Thoughts anyone??

    • Although true NOR…. I don’t believe that’s the warm waters halt FF is talking about.

      • James, I love my solve for HOB and intend to follow through in that region. My WWWH may not be the same starting point that Forrest intended, but moving forward from there works well with my end solve. At some point you just have to make a decision, follow your path, and hope for the best. The views are so lovely that I forget about looking for gold and simply get lost in God’s creation – lovely snow capped mountains, flower carpeted meadows, and streams I can wade without being swept away in the stronger river currents. Is your team ready to head out on your search?

    • Be careful of your word choices there! Like Dal, I really like when the quotes are precise: He did NOT say people underestimate the importance of WWWH, he said people underestimate the importance of the First Clue. He also said on 6/20:
      Q: Dear Forrest, which is the first clue; the first line or the line that starts with Begin it where warm waters halt? ~Carolyn
      A: [thanks Carolyn:] you guess.

      ..Leaving the door WIDE open on whether WWWH is really clue 1 or if it’s an earlier line.

      Though he was pretty clear about consecutive order:

      Q: When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area?
      A: The clues should be followed in order … There is no other way to my knowlege.

      • Thanks Map, it is so important not to paraphrase, and I’m not clear headed this morning either. Thanks for your accuracy, and exacting quotations. Enjoy your day, I have much to attend today. 🙂

      • Forrest did not actually answer that last question completely did he? Yes the clues should be followed in order but he did NOT say he took that path. The path could just be on a map and not necessarily on a road, trail, or river. They could also just be waypoints on a map. To me his answer leaves everything wide open to interpretation ……. as usual! 🙂

  67. Safety,
    Yes, F has definitively specified Santa Fe, New Mexico. This has been discussed a lot.

    • Marvin Candle,
      Thank you. I remembered the Search the Blog after I quickly posted (Nice tool if used). I was trying to justify a search area even further. Santa Fe Mountain peak would have justified the elimination of a whole state for me.
      Again, thank you for answering.

    • Being that this question with Jenny was a special one, back by popular demand, I feel there is a hint and a tease both in f words. The place is somewhere he had a special connection with people/persons and it was moment he could live in forever. Maybe not this particular river or fishing trip, but a trip that was similar on another river with someone different. IMO…. Where was it he proposed to Peggy?

    • I’ve always thought the treasure was in MT, and somewhere around where Forrest had fond memories, so if that is a hint to look in MT, it doesn’t help me much. 🙂

    • My guess is that it is a tease AND a hint. The tease (directed at us) is that the hint could be either “not here” or “near here” or “listen hear”. As I have a deep seated belief that the treasure is in the vicinity of this lake, my curiosity is telling me to listen carefully but also to remember that sometimes an answer from Forrest is just that–an answer to the question asked and nothing more.

    • This probably won’t help solve the poem, but at one time pinecones were called pine apples.

    • dal I don’t think it has anything to do with the treasure chest – like he said he was there with his dad to me it seems like a very long time ago and hasn’t been back

    • Should it be a hint of sorts, I would be cautious and say a subtle hint. The question remains is the subtle hint about waters, Montana, the lake or area or maybe something dealing with that type of trip all in it’s self. There are many ways to see what one would like to see. It’s all about perception.

      The one thought that comes to mind is, should Fenn be hinting “Montana” I guess we could rule out the remaining states. Would he do that? That would be a bit more than a subtle hint…

    • I see (IMO) a big hint…just not for that particular spot. It’s time to plan a family outing to the Rocky Mountains, looking for the clue that I missed on my last visit.

    • Dal,
      I have been waiting to answer your question but I can still do it year after year about this same time. Anyway, the quote sounds crazy to me. Maybe, I spent to much time thinking about it. I am sure he will have a gala of a time with a little fishing. Most of the stories have deep meaning. I just need to collect what works for me. I am keeping this one for a couple of months.

      “One for sure. I want to go back to Montana and visit some of the places I used to haunt during my formulating years. I may do that in September if I can sneak away.”

      Thanks Dal, great question.

  68. I don’t think there is any hint what so ever in what he said he will never tell 🙂

    • Amy, I agree. He’s not handing out clues, but I like that phrase about no flies. Sounds like something my dad would say. FF probably means he’s jumping around from hint to hint so no one can logically figure out if he’s hinting or not…kind of like a diversion by the military just before a strike. I hope someone searches/reports on those two creeks.

  69. Yes me to hope someone will search there, but I doubt it’s there. Yes and u never know what may be a hint or clue. So research it !!!!!!! 🙂

    • Speaking of research, does anyone know if there are any dams near where Forrest is talking about in Montana? Because if there’s NOT then there’s a good chance the treasure might be there. He did say recently that where warm waters halt is not related to any dam. So….logic dictates. Do you think Forrest would laugh or be angry if someone called him a Logic Dictator? I hope he laughs if/when he reads that.

      Btw, what do you get when a guy named Richard carves a potato into a boat?
      Answer: A Dictatorship! 🙂

  70. I agree but this is the one I can’t get. I can make stretches that fit it into my theory but I don’t like that. I like my ideas neat and tidy where I don’t have to stretch far because I’m in Detroit and my budget doesn’t allow for dumb ideas on my part.

  71. I wrote a poem containing “nine” clues that if followed precisely …

    what if the emphasis is not on “nine” as a quantity but as a descriptor

    he wrote a poem with “nine” clues, a series of clues that have to do with the number nine

    • Interesting. I like the number 3. 3 is a very interesting number, I guess cause I cook by 3s… Chicken on the grill = 9 min. A great steak on the grill at 225 for 9 min and then resting. Burgers go only 12 on the smoker … Heck even omelets are by 3s in my book, 3 to sauté onions and spinach 3 to cook the egg then add the tomatoes and cheese and fold 3 more then flip and 3 more….. Oh yeah the poem, 3 are important too and the book. FF says, “you got to think.” ( paraphrasing ) That’s all I have to say about that Mr Fenn. IMHO

    • Chris,
      Your statement would back up the “listen good” part of the poem, however Halo recently asked:
      “Did you intend for there to be 9 clues, or did it work out to be just right with 9?” and he said:
      “I didn’t count the clues until the poem had been finalized. Although I changed it a few times over the months I think the number stayed about the same.f”

      That statement tends to give emphasis that he is talking about the actual number of clues.

      • i dont think you are reading what Fenn said closely enough

        if there was a quantity of 100 clues in the poem, F can say i didnt count them until i was done. this doesnt say anything if the quantity of clues is 9

        also, “i changed it a few times … and i think the number stayed about the same” … again no acknowledgement on Fs part of any quantity number … and also notice he says …”i think” …and … “the number stayed about the same ” … the word “about” sounds more like something you would say if there were a bunch of clues, and they stayed about the same, as opposed to if it was a specific small quantity of 9 … if it had stayed exactly 9 … you would say it stayed the same . if it was exactly 9 before and 9 after the changes, you wouldn’t say about .. right… ?

        so to me it seems that statement supports the assertion that nine is not necessarily the quantity of the clues

        • Chris,
          You point is valid and possible and that is what makes this chase so interesting. One’s personal bias can certainly take this poem any direction they want because there is no lawyer present to ensure any of FF’s statements have only the intended meaning.

          The Wolf

          • CY & Wolf, IMO Fenns poem has about nine interpretations for each clue and they all work… Literal, geographical, metaphorical, historical, art/perspective, literature/poetry, familial, spiritual, architectural, literary puns

            Take your pick… They all apply

          • Indicator is a good word to use when describing what we maybe looking for as clues. Are the clues in the poem a single word or definition? Or as Swan stated maybe all the meaning combined. This line of thought doesn’t limit one to just a single guess at a clue, but brings the poem’s meaning… definitions… Idioms… metaphors… all together to show the reader the entire poem.

            The possible reason that WWWH has not been narrowed down, but to only a few. It may not be one and only one of the previously mentioned ideas.

    • Chris,
      I tested that “descriptor” hypothesis, but (IMO) rejected it, for a multitude of reasons. (Possibly nine reasons.)

  72. After 1-1/2 yrs of research and no trips West yet (coming soon), I am running with the theory that there is 1 key word in the poem that is also a hint in the poem and the book that unlocks the book hints therefore unlocks the poem.. At which point the hint in the book, when antilized correctly and decifered correctly gives you the code to finding the treasure. “All you need is the poem!” FF = this is a true statement. What I have gotten out of the poem puts me not only in the location of the blaze but at the right area within 6 football fields. That wasn’t good enough. ” use the book” (paraphrased) FF = this a true statement. Decoding put me at a certain point. ” A good map will help” FF = this is a true statement. Helped confirm. ( I actually think 3 maps help me a whole lot)…. All IMHO. But who knows? Only Mr Fenn! This is just my way of thinking, that’s all.

    • James,
      Just a thought. you stated … “in the location of the blaze but at the right area within 6 football fields”… Is the Blaze a single object ? FF answered Yes. Does the blaze have to be a single [ for lack of a better term ] Item or can it be many that construct a larger object. For me the Blaze is a trail [ found in the poem] the reader must make to the location of the chest. If correct, the blaze can be rather large and still be a single object.

      • Seeker, FF did not reply simply “yes” as you state. Good thing you didn’t quote that yes.

      • Seeker, when you quoted me above you forgot “not only”. That is important.

        • You are correct to recommend an actual quote. I neglected to place ” ” as my Subject matter was not Fenns [Quote] answer, but an interpretation of the word “object” which was part of the question presented to Fenn.

          The point to my comment was that an “object” can be something other than a single item… Just food for thought.

  73. A BIG Thanks to whomever recommended “The Art of Clear Thinking” by Rudolf Flesh! It’s out of print but used copies are very affordable on Amazon. I believe it may help with interpreting the poem’s clues. Here’s a few tips:

    1. Bright ideas are often wrong but should be tested.
    2. The first rule of clear thinking is not to follow the rules.
    3. Don’t apply general rules blindly to the puzzle.
    4. Narrow the field of solutions by asking 20 questions…IDEA HUNT
    5. Don’t underrate the influence of chance.
    6. Spot things hard to distinguish from their backgrounds
    7. Try to remember that everyone including yourself has only their own experience to think with
    8. Translate the abstract and general into the specific and concrete
    9. Look up all possible definitions for a word to determine the best application or multiple applications…

      • Old Shadows, thanks, heuristic is a new one to me, and enjoyable to learn the meaning. ‘Rule of thumb’ is an old saying, and if you read much history you run across it as an old standard used for how large a stick men could use to discipline their wives (no larger than the diameter of a thumb). I realize the phrase has morphed into a modern generality, but still don’t like the connotation.

  74. the people that have been the closest don’t know that they were close

    this tells me that the people who have been the closest weren’t searching for the treasure.

    i think its likely that no one who has actually been trying to solve the poem and search for the treasure has been within 500 feet

    • Chris,
      I have always interpreted FF’s statement as the searchers who were the closest did not know that they were the closest. They did not know that FF is talking about them. They could wonder about it but they were never given confirmation.
      The Wolf

      • What about the large mouth bass? He’s in the pond but missed the food. I think that’s confirmation. Now, whether he knows it or not is another story.

        • Crazy, I’m not sure if NM bass are as smart at YP brown trout. The trout would know. They spit out man made flies quicker than you can yell fire. So that trail of reasoning would lead to NM. IMO Norwegian sardines are smartest of all 🙂

        • It is possible that could be confirmation but the statement was cryptic so they would still are guessing; now I felt the “large mouth” bass was directed at a certain person for an entirely different reason. Thus the statement “In this very complicated world that’s just something else to worry about I guess.”
          Why would he worry about someone finding or getting near the chest?

          • Wolf – very hard to guess what Mr. Fenn had in mind at that time. While you’re speculating I’m paying bills and headed for dreamworld. Night/•

          • Oh, I don’t think Fenn is worried. He could simply be feigning sympathy. Poor little fish-out-of-water. I don’t think he’s above that.

            Maybe you should say who you thought the comment was in reference to and why.

          • Ok, I must be at that age when memory starts to fade. Could one of you enlighten me about these bass comments? It sounds like I might know the bass mentioned. Maybe I need to read the scrapbooks again? Wolf, somebody, anybody, please help.

          • Ah, and here I thought that if there were a metaphor in that story that it was that we (online searcher community) are ALL captive fish being hand fed ff’s personal ‘food for thought’ yet ignoring some basics (like don’t overcomplicate it ).
            Ha. Irony!

  75. Heard someone say maybe the “bass” can’t afford the trip out there. Really?
    You can get on Craigslist and catch rides across the country for free.

    Or we have a crazy who isn’t adding up or multi-millionaires playing with each other where their past money being an objective.

    Maybe they also don’t have to prove anything to each other or to us.

    Or it’s just a story of a man feeding a fish for a day.

    Don’t know, it’s Fenn’s dogfight not mine.

    • As long as the chest isn’t recovered ( to Fenn’s knowledge) Fenn sees it as he won it, end of story.

      I win!

      The problem is last year the group spent $17 million give or take.

      Waiting for the active players list for this year to come out from Fenn what another 35,000?

      Then where at $34 million and climbing……………………….

      Like the man, not going to worship him and thank him for playing.

      Anyways have other things to do.


  76. IMO it would be more productive to quit reading scrapbooks and go fishing. Everyday on the river is great, and some are spectacular.
    Forget the treasure hunt and live in the treasured moments God gives you!

    • Swan Your all over this board.

      Swan: “No one can find this treasure, who’s with me?”

      As a bunch of people take off with Swan never to return.

      Swan as she returns : Oh where were we?”

      • Swans lost. Thought I was meeting a fishing guide to take my son out today. I can’t find the library we were meeting at and so trying to get directions from local fire station.

  77. Stephanie told me that Fenn said he never thought it would be found in her lifetime. Other than that it’s enjoyable to read about these things once in a while. That’s about as far as it’s going to go for me.

    People are fascinating and how they act things out.

    Your interesting at times Deb, have a need to cry when people supposedly are beating you up in order to solicit sympathy…….You can also be kind.

    We should always be nice 24/7 so we can have friends and more friends. Awhile back just felt the need to tell it as it is. It’s called being authentic.

    If I say I like someone I like them I hate them I will hate them. Don’t have to worry about me being superficial.

    Really wonder why the person isn’t going for the chest? If Fenn wants to know the real reason instead of playing these games I ‘m sure he could sit down and talk about it.

    Or not.

    Oh yeah let me use my get out of jail card:

    All of this is IMO:)

    • Rick,
      Very interesting comments. My question to you – do you think the treasure will be found in Stephanie’s lifetime or do you feel you may be the one that is not going for the trove?
      The Wolf

      • Think the puzzle is very easy, the material on the other hand requires sophistication

        The material needs to be addressed is my concern.

        It’s behind the grasp of a unemployed redneck Texas hick with a broken down truck and 6 kids at home.

        Fenn being an archeologist and dealing with other material puts him out of that league and into the sophistication of the material.

        Other than that Fenn reads this board he’s free to email me or not.

        Have other things to do then play metaphor games dodge the bullet here’s back at you.

        So it’s your call Fenn……………..


        • Fenn maybe knowledgeable in a lot of fields, Archeology being one of them… I see the poem as more common sense line of thinking. The complication is know how to read it in Fenn language.

          What I mean by that is, each word is place deliberately and each has many different terms to understand. The one who solves the poem will have lined up the correct understanding on How the poem should be read. The entire poem has a meaning all it’s own.

          But the poem was written by an Architect, as Fenn has stated, There is more to the poem than just words. The structure of the poem is very important as well.

        • What do you mean by “material” and how is it supposed to be “addressed”? I must be too simple minded as I don’t think the puzzle is easy at all, even for those who have the first 2 clues correct.

    • I am going for it.
      What everybody doesn’t realize, is that this is a very complicated puzzle. If you have the first clues correct, you still have a five mile stretch that it is located in. Every clue has numerous possibility’s, and each possibility must be explored thoroughly. f seems to think u can solve it quickly,if u know where to start, but only he KNOWS the answer to the 9 clues.
      For example, anyone know what listen good, really means? How about the blaze?
      To find the chest EVERY clue must be solved!
      This entails some deep thynking, and boots on the ground.
      I’m making very good progress, and my final trip will be in early Sept.
      the whisperer

      • Hey M,

        I have a thought regarding the 1st clue that will only put you within about 1500 miles…subsequent clues get you to a very precise location…have not ventured out yet though. Just back from Spreckelsville and the house of the Blaze (i.e. Sun). I do not think you can solve it quickly even if one knows for certain where to start. Where did Mr. Fenn start when he began…”As I have gone…”? His bathroom? Possibly.

        I believe Mr. Fenn stated at one point that the HOB is very important, but you must first start at the beginning in order to find the correct HOB. My soggy brain cannot remember the exact quote. I think this rules out general HOB concepts like, trout, bears, houses, cabins, etc.

        Regarding your “listen good” question… I think big ears may be involved…a possible subtle hint in the book perhaps? I found some Big ears in a search but they were on Mount Rainier…well it is a Rocky Mountain….no?

    • Your hate is your choice. There has only been one person I truly hated. I find it a waste of time to hate . People are just people , good and bad all in one. Just like your comments about me, good and bad all in one human being. Why would I hate over something so petty?

      My comment about it was why bother spending any time posting about it if you don’t believe ?

      • No one is all good or all evil, usually there in between.

        Believe the treasure is real.

        Have shared my feelings and thoughts. Needed feedback to correct some things, thanks Wolf:)

        One has to be very careful when their the only experts in the world on a certain subject material. That’s usually a big red flag.

        Everyday a new ego maniac is born with this hunt that knows where the treasure is……….

        Either ends in a tragedy or a comedy, usually a tragedy.


        • Mmm, yes. Subject material. So, you think he’s leading us to the arrowhead like his dad led him.

          • If you read Fenn’s bass story you can see he is “perplexed”

            The dictionary defines perplexed as:

            per•plexed (pərˈplɛkst)

            1. bewildered; puzzled.

            2. complicated; involved; entangled.

            Really see another hidden agenda:

            If you could just do things my way — as in, if you would just change a little of who you are to become who I want you to be instead — this relationship would be better for us both.

            Most problems in communication come about because of different perspectives.


          • What is it that Fenn is asking you to do? He says take the chest and go in peace, not rob the whole place blind. Remember, tarry scant with marvel gaze? I think you’re bluffing. But it’s a good guess.

          • At the end of my dreams come answers that are new and old. “Just take the chest and go in peace” A part of a poem that eluded me, still, it gives me an image in my mind. CRAZY, what great question to focus on. Perhaps, I am going there as well, there isn’t a morning my mind tells me go back to sleep and get another answer.

    • @Rick, always use your get out of jail free card! Grab a cold tea or beer and enjoy this evenings sunset. Everyday has its pleasures even when plans are derailed. I find myself with an unexpected rare free evening and plan to hike the wilds where solitude is not an endangered species. I may even hear the whispering pines, if a mountain lion doesn’t hunt me down! Ha, life is interesting and every breath a gift:-)

  78. I believe the chest is out there mr.fenn doesn’t have to give any more hints for it’s yours to find that’s the point of this chase.if you hunt or fish there’s no guarantee you will get anything but the hunt is the reward. we all get to involved with it but that’s in your nature.I have spent more money at local casino than I have on my 3 failed attempts for the chest but have enjoyed the time with my family doing it and I’m in better shape .this is a personal quest that has great rewards take it as that but don’t get mad at mr.fenn he figured people would enjoy this

    • I keep in mind that Fenn is selling the Thrill of the Chase, not the Thrill of the Find.

      • Old shadows you are wise… Selling/marketing being the key word this time. Reminiscent of a prior scrapbook scrib tiff which caused the most seasoned searcher to ask… is it real or perceived.

        I believe… It’s not what you’re looking at but what you see that brings clarity. Truth is elusive in marketing.

  79. Fennerspeak: I’ve noticed when someone says “What state are you searching in?” it really an attempt to clarify “Are you in my location?”

    • Yes, I agree 23K. But you could be lost if you misinterpreted info. Can’t find a brick and mortar library, but maybe a school or fire dept would help

  80. Hey Swan. Sounds like a rough day. Don’t know where you are, but if in Montana I can recommend fishing guides and lodges.

    • Thanks nor. We finally connected with the guide after communication errors and are fishing this afternoon. Appreciate your kindness.

      • @Nor… Are they cheap guides in Montana?…. Remember we are a bunch if rednecks coming all the way across the US.

  81. Not sure I’m buying in to all the subtext being attributed to the fish feeding story. Freud might say, “Sometimes a bass is just a cigar.”

    • Marvin-
      I love that answer. I think it clearly depicts what kind of original thinker Forrest is. How uniquely he approaches problems. I have heard lots of folks wish they could go back and eliminate the start of WWII…but I’ve never heard anyone wish they were Hitler so they could take poison and end the war before it starts..
      Reminds me of a story I saw on TV many decades ago..a rather slow soldier in an infantry squad is constantly the brunt of jokes and pranks by other members of his squad. Today we’d say they bully him I suppose. At one point someone in the squad gets hold of a practice grenade…(which does nothing but looks very real) and pulls the pin and tosses it on the floor in front of the slow soldier expecting him to be terrified and jump out a window in the squad bay. But instead he leaps on the grenade, covering it with his torso and yelling at everyone else to run. He did not know it was a practice grenade. He thought it was the real thing and was willing to sacrifice his life so that the others might live…
      That’s Medal of Honor action…in my opinion…
      I’m just saying it takes someone of unusual character to come up with unusual solutions…
      So how are we ever going to figure out where this chest is hidden when we are up against such a unique problem solver?

      • LOL! Dal, that is simple. We devise a unique solution!!

        Such as, if you are standing at the point that “Cat Creek” enters Horse Creek, you are at the “mouth of the Cat”!!

        Surely everyone has heard of “meek as a mouse”? So, where would no place for the meek be?? You would also be at a “Y”.
        {cat creek could be tiger creek, bobcat creek, etc.)

        And, “no place for the meek” is not in the same sequence, in the field, as it appears to be in the Poem. (if you interpret correctly you are not messing with the Poem)


      • Dal

        you should have a hall of fame for posts from Dal

        and this one should be in it

        btw, this puzzle has 3 layers

        1) understanding the geographical location, where it is

        2) understanding the ‘nature’ of the puzzle

        3) solving the puzzle, having the location and within the location, and understanding its nature

        ( I am currently working on #3)

      • Dal,
        My initial reaction was that it seemed a bit dark coming from Forrest, but I like your spin on it.

        I guess I would have wished to be in the parking area watching F have a laugh as he returned to the car:)

      • Dal, Forrest’s response reminds me of his wish to cheat disease and pick his own time to fly his final journey as his father did. The statement is dark, but if you are contemplating ending your life, how much more meaningful to save 6 million people. IMO Forrest’s statement leans that direction. Dal, do you know how Forrest is doing?

        • Everyone has a light and a dark side.

          Forrest is human just like us, he just thinks and sees more expansively than a great majority of people. His synapses are superior and his rods and cones are wonderful!

        • I don’t believe his comment was dark, it was the truth look at all the lives hitler took such an evil man. 🙁

      • Takes an Apache to defeat another Apache.

        Reason the Apache scouts where employed for the destruction of Geronimo and the Apaches themselves.

        Point being there are few people around here like minded and capable.

        Then again maybe a country pumpkin pulls it off, lol.

        Based on the number of players and what that pushes into have a fair idea what to look for.

        Looks like it might have hit Fenn:)

        Get out of jail card: IMO

        • Rick, can I borrow your Indiana Jones hat? I forgot my Diggin gypsy hat on a bench yesterday and am diggin sonshine today. Do you remember if a Fenn said he made two trips from a parking lot? That was stated today, and I recall it being from where he parked the car, not a parking lot. He could have parked the car on an old jeep trail. Hugely important to narrowing anyone’s search. I would look up but only have iphone and losing service shortly.

          • James, here’s a riddle just for you:
            (Keeping in mind the humorous a song by Train of ways to say she died)

            Did Nor get run over by a karst bus or did she get caught in a rock slide when the karst bust or was the karst a bust, did she bust open the karst or maybe was she bussed on a karst. Apache humor

          • @Rick
            Trumped again. Well played.
            Throw me in with the fools, I’ve already anted up.
            If it’s not there, I’m not sure its anywhere.

          • lets say someone wrote a poem leading to treasure, and every clue in the poem was in some way related to apples

            he then says, I wrote a poem containing “apple” clues

            think about this when considering the statement

            I wrote a poem containing “nine” clues

          • @CY, a couple of important 9’s in my solve, but I’m keeping it simple and maintaining a 9 year old mentality on what’s important. You’ve a clever mind; I would certainly enjoy seeing a “niner” poem solve.

      • “Reminds me of a story I saw on TV many decades ago..a rather slow soldier in an infantry squad is constantly the brunt of jokes and pranks by other members of his squad. Today we’d say they bully him I suppose. At one point someone in the squad gets hold of a practice grenade…(which does nothing but looks very real) and pulls the pin and tosses it on the floor in front of the slow soldier expecting him to be terrified and jump out a window in the squad bay. But instead he leaps on the grenade, covering it with his torso and yelling at everyone else to run. He did not know it was a practice grenade. He thought it was the real thing and was willing to sacrifice his life so that the others might live…”

        Yeah I saw that story too its call Captain America: The First Avenger.

    • Thanks for posting the update on Mysterious Writings Marvin. I am always interested in Forrest’s answers as they are always very unique and very thought-provoking. And sometimes they seem to contain hints, at least to me they do. 🙂

  82. I guess I’ll help you people twice in one day (thought it may be only helping Dal as he likes to keep my hints)

    Forrest has said many things. Both some of those things could be related.

    Forrest has said show the poem to your children or kids. Forrest has also said that he’ll be surprised if its found in his lifetime or in the next 20-30 years.

    So…what if….show the poem to your kid means, let them see the poem so they’ll remember it 30-40 years down the line and go after the clues. And only then will the clues make sense because Forrest has designed the poem to work, and possibly only work, that far down the line.

      • Implied. He told Stephanie he don’t think it’ll be found in her lifetime…..so calculating her age plus the mean age the average person passes and…. 30-40.

        Granted Stephanie seems like a woman fully capable to living much longer than that.

  83. Regarding the “listen good” question: IMO a searcher who is in the correct general area will be (again, IMO) able to hear two different sounds.

  84. as I pointed out previously in a post on Chase Chat … ‘so hear me all’ can clearly be seen in Stout Hearted Men

    what is Stout Hearted Men depicting? men sitting or standing around a fire singing a song.

    f reiterates this with the recent post about singing and doing the dishes

  85. Seriously, definitely lacking in your American History. just saying, someone from Boston could interpret as, all is well, time,ringing of the bell, as the crier in the street before the street lights were put out. Your call, your interpretation.

    Right, Wrong or indifferent, your interpretation of your knowledge.

    • I like your interpretation dontknow. Does anyone think f. left the one correct interpretation of his poem inside the chest? Would be nice for the finder to understand his full intent. We don’t often discuss conservation of streams and habitats and those are important to Forrest. For instance I do think the chest could be in some way tied to conservation in its placement.

  86. Nor, I think the person that finds the chest…gets it without explanation. And sure, global preservation is a positive trend for my children and grandchildren with out saying. Do you know how many sacred acres of Civil War Battlefields are sold off to the likes of Strip Malls? We don’t even have respect for our own ancestors in the name of progress. That makes me sick. Progress with no continence is the enemy. My opinion only The Government covets what they don’t own, but sell their souls to the highest bidder.

    Anybody west of the Mississippi gets THAT! LOL!

    Sweet Dreams and Flying Machines.

    • There are a great many things of intrinsic worth…like Civil War Battlefields, for example.

      “War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”
      John Stuart Mill
      English economist & philosopher (1806 – 1873)

      If only John Stuart Mill were alive today to see what a mess the world is in.

  87. Please consider the following recent F statements.

    A) “ I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.f “

    B) “When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area?
    Thank you Curtis
    The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.f”

    Based on A); There has been a lot of discussion about how far the trail could be from the car to the TC to make 4 one-way trips in an afternoon. Throwing in my own experience I’m saying there’s reasonable consensus that it’s around 2 miles (1 way).

    Based on B); He seems to be telling us that you need to follow all the clues in order as there is no other way.

    If you accept these premise, then isn’t it quite possible he’s parking at or near WWWH, and the whole path has to shrink to about 2 miles. This would be in contrast to previous speculation that TFTW was around 10 miles. Why have one featured clue, WWWH, be that far removed from all the others, and if he does drive it once to shortcut the path isn’t he fudging on the “no other way” statement?

    C) “You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:
    a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
    b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
    Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve
    No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?”

    Finally, he seems to be saying that all the clues paint a picture of the path, and you can’t know one with out the whole. I’ll even go out on a limb and say that the path is the “Blaze”. You must be wise to have determined the path.

    The theory is now open for criticism….please begin.

    • There are a few hidden messages in those comments that you quoted from Fenn, IMO.

      Perhaps the most important being “No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?”

      This comment could imply that there is another use for the clues other than following a road or river down to home of Brown and you would need all of them to proceed. Several posters have said this same thing. I think Fenn has given enough clues that there are two beginnings and two ends. There may very well be two blazes, as CY said a while back.

    • A. Fenn puts thumb over City of Philadelphia. He sees things in a relative perspective. His focus is on how small things really are.

      B. Do you really think you can begin at the starting line and walk directly to the finish line, without following the clues along the way that tell you where to end?

      C. How can you have any confidence in your solution, if you find a couple of clues in the poem (or think you have) and think they are all you need. It doesn’t work that way in any treasure hunt. Why would this one be any different?

      The most important fact we have in this search, is what Fenn has told us, “It’s not easy, but not impossible either”. Emphasis on words “not easy”. If it was, the chest would have been found by those who have been at this from the start.

    • I like where you’re going with you will be parking at WWH. I think you’re hot on the trail here. With this logic this would mean….

      “take it to the canyon down” – you will be parking on top of the canyon walls and this says to walk down into the canyon.

      And I say again. Once you’re down there DO NOT TAKE ANY TRAILS. (not far, but too far to walk) (PLUS, Forrest has said he is not one for following trails, he is a off the beaten path person)

      This is where those few who have gotten the first two clues right but went past the others. They went past them because it’s natural to want to follow the marked trails.

      Go this way and home of Brown should seem pretty obvious.

      Follow what I say above and you will find the chest. Or at the very least, a chest 😉

      • @ djjmciv

        Definition time: CHEST
        1.the front surface of a person’s or animal’s body between the neck and the abdomen.
        synonyms: breast, upper body, torso, trunk; More
        the whole of a person’s upper trunk, especially with reference to physical size
        synonyms: breast, upper body, torso, trunk; More

        2. a large strong box, typically made of wood and used for storage
        synonyms: box, case, casket, crate, trunk, coffer, strongbox

    • Marvin, these are good quotes to lay out together on a table. I’d add the one about the “not in close proximatey to any human trail” hint too, since it seems clearly related to these same logistics.

      in your B quote, he never did answer the question about skipping steps: which, imo, leaves open the possibility that yes, HE can skip a step, but NO, no one else will be able to without first nailing down the 9 clues.

      Yes, the clues can indeed be building a trail. But they might not be linear. One theory: If you dig through old comments here you’ll see I’ve long thought that the trail itself might CREATE the blaze you have to look for.
      Another thing, in your C example, he doesn’t confirm or deny the two suppositions of the Question-Asker: 1. that you “must *first* solve WWWH” 2. that you cannot determine the *starting point* of the clues/path with only WWWH & North of Santa Fe.
      In fact , the phrase “proceed with confidence” is the phrase he used to describe someone who’s figured out all nine clues. So, Forrest has essentially been asked “can you figure all nine clues with just 1”? Of course not. His answer about cake (fried pineapple, I’m sure) addresses just that.
      FF is a logic fiend, I think; he’d be in good company with Lewis Carroll. 😉

      However- Your supposition that WWWH must be within a short distance from any other clue doesn’t add up to me: FF didn’t say the entire process of hiding the chest took an afternoon, he only said that the walking to and from his car – the TWO TRIPS- took an afternoon. Therefore, the distance from Clue number 9 to the treasurehiding site could be the distance that he was out of his car (not necessarily walking) for an afternoon. At no point did he say it’s not possible to drive to clue 9 (but he strongly implies there’s simply no way to figure out clue 9 without also figuring out 8, and 7, and 1thru6 too). Nor did he say he drove to and from the treasure from his house in an afternoon. Nor did he say it USED UP an ENTIRE afternoon. I know I’m biased by own work and life experiences, but imo Omissions are EVERYTHING.

      So, I imagine it could have also gone down like this:
      i) He drives his jeep out on a flat dirt path for 100 miles from WWWH, drives another 50 miles to TIITCD, 50 miles to HOB, 10 miles to NPFTM, 10 miles to EDN, 10 miles to the Paddleless Creek (which he fords), up to the HLAWH, near the Blaze, drives another 500 feet to the MarvelGaze that’s both cold and in the wood, — he parks and kills the engine, walks 500 feet, deposits the 21 pound chest, returns to the jeep for the treasures, walks the 500 feet again, deposits the entire treasure, walks back to jeep and fires it up again 15 minutes after he killed the engine, then drives through all those 230+ miles (TFTW) of dust, then freeway. While his driving, at say, 50 MPH might take 9.2 hours to follow the entire poem (we can guess he left right after breakfast: thank goodness he packed that sandwich 🙂 (and flashlight) ), his trip from the car to the hiding spot occurred “In one afternoon” , …and within 15 minutes, at that.

      Of course, for all we know it went down like this:
      ii) He arrives at WWWH, which happens to be on the freeway. He drives 2 miles off the freeway and offroads for 3 miles in the Canyon Down, fords some swift waters (TFTW), parks jeep. Gets out a raft to ‘put in below HOB’ at noon, rafts for 1 hour going past a number of other Clues along his beautiful, magic, serene scene – gets to the spot: drops off chest. Walks back upstream along a wolf trail for 1.5 hours. Gets gold. Rafts 1 hour, drops gold, walks back to jeep for 1.5 hours. It’s 5 now, he heads back across offroading trails, back to freeway. In this scenario, he also hid it “in one afternoon”.
      …This scenario also is one I considered that makes room for his original plan to leave his ‘bones’ with the chest: his jeep could be miles upstream, and his raft can just be let go downstream. (Park your jeep and horse trailer on the freeway (where Smokey will promptly tow it away ) and do the rest of the route by horse, and you can increase the distance from body to car pretty nicely, no?)

      Then again, maybe he meant this:
      iii) He parks jeep 5 miles north of his house. Walks into the desert about 4 miles north. Hides chest. Walks back to car, gets gold, walks the 4 miles again. (at 3mph, about 5 hours of walking can fit into one afternoon). He’s left around noon and is home by dinner.

      i.e. imo, he’s told us nothing. 😀

      Resume reading the poem, the book, and a good map. 😉

      • Marvin go with your gut. Take those who have come up empty on their searches with a “grain of salt”

      • While you make some good points with how the phrases are interpreted, I’d have to wonder about the likelihood of your two scenerios. If the geographic features of the clues are spread over a distance as great as 230 miles, the chance of someone connecting them together, IMO, approachs totally impossible rather than “not impossible”. IMO they are somehow closely connected to a central theme and proximity.
        In scenerio two, you have him hauling a heavy raft as well as gold, and floating a hour downstream. IMO, floating a hour downstream probably puts you much farther then a 1.5 hour walk back, and he’s hauling the raft again. Sounds to complex.
        Guess I’ve discounted the horse idea too for similar reasons….protential traceable movments renting horses/trailers, more complexity, and logistics as opposed to a nice quiet 1 man hike. Being alone and unincumbered is more subtle. I’m betting on stealth and simplicity.

        • DAL DAL DAL- Mi amigoooo, plleeease help!Does Forrest own a horse + trailer?
          Does he own/ ride a dirt bike?
          How about an ATV?

          If any of the above apply, is one of them blue?

          Thank you!

          • Lowi-
            As far as I can tell Forrest never owned a horse…although he did have burros. But the burros lived at his gallery until they were adopted by ranchers. He paid some friends to go get the burros and rescue them from being exterminated by the feds for overpopulating an area. I think that story is in his TFTW book. However he did not transport them so he didn’t need a trailer. His jeep does not have a hitch. I have never seen a trailer in his garage or at his house or at San Lazaro. He certainly rode horses. I have heard stories of him riding with friends…but always their horses…not his.

            I don’t know that Forrest has ever owned an ATV or a dirt bike. I don’t think he was/is likely to embrace those machines. Forrest is a walker/hiker and has a reputation for being able to walk a long distance at a quick step. In TFTW there is a story with pics of him humping out a full sized Cougar that he shot. Just guessing but by the look of that animal I would say she weighs about 175lbs..I have heard that story several times from more than one source and the distance and the terrain were challenging. He sets a good pace and he could travel all day long..unless there was a trout bearing stream nearby that distracted him…lol..

  88. There are a few hidden messages in those comments that you quoted from Fenn, IMO.

    Perhaps the most important being “No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?”

    This comment could imply that there is another use for the clues other than following a road or river down to home of Brown and you would need all of them to proceed. Several posters have said this same thing. I think Fenn has given enough clues that there are two beginnings and two ends. There may very well be two blazes, as CY said a while back.

  89. First of all, never take anything Forrest says without a huge grain of salt. For example, in TTOTC, near the end of the book, he claims to have looked up his father’s resting place on Google. Most grownups who have attended their parents’ funerals remember where they are buried. The numbers 4 and 23 are almost certainly clues (23 stumps, the 23d letter of the alphabet is W, which is composed of 4 lines, or perhaps grooves cut by an ax in a tree.) His subliminal message is: if I tell you something that is completely unbelievable, don’t believe me.

    Secondly, please look at this slightly adulterated version of The Map:


    Finally, here is my take on the first two clues. Naturally you wind up very close to where the lines cross on the map.

    WWWH is Glenwood Springs, CO, which is the location of the largest hot mineral springs pool on the planet. The first four letters of Glenwood are hidden in two places in the poem. Consider the two words “canyon down.” As I have suggested before, Forrest’s clue style borrows from the kind of cryptic puzzles published in the London Times, and later in the New Yorker and The Atlantic Monthly in the United States, where they were popularized by Stephen Sondhiem. “Down” is an instruction to take a smaller version of something. A glen is a small canyon. Secondly, in the first line of stanza six, if you rearrange the letters of “listen g..” you get “its glen.” You append glen to wood and voila. Yes it’s hard, but it had to be, particularly because the first two clues are the hardest. Successfully identifying HOB provides some reassuring confirmation. In the last line of stanza two we see two capital letters, P and B. Pb is the symbol for lead. “ville” means home. HOB is Leadville, CO, once the home of Molly Brown. It is not far, but too far to walk to the intersection of the crosshairs (about 80 miles). If you drive from Leadville to Glenwood Springs, you start out on Route 24 and finish up on Route 6, which match up nicely with the number of lines and stanza in the poem.

    Don’t forget, you begin it WWWH.

    So the first two clues of the Poem are:

    1. Glenwood Springs, CO
    2. Route 6

    As you know, there are 7 more clues. As I posted earlier, I think that another is:

    8. Owl nook

    The nine clues I am working with, beyond leading to a very specific location in a step-by-step way, have three other interesting features. The first letters of all nine clues spell out a meaningful pair of words. The last four of these letters spell out one meaningful word. And finally, the last two letters are very, very meaningful.

    If you think this is all wrong, God bless you. On the other hand, if I’ve got your attention, see if you can’t find some more of the clues. Remember, each one has a “twin” somewhere in the puzzle that yields the same answer. Why not start with “marvel gaze” or “quest to cease?”

    Finally, don’t get in your car yet. You can get by without the last clue, but you will need all of the first eight to find the spot.

    • Eliza, looks like you’re a puzzle solver. Regarding using first letters that sounds like a fennism but so subjective. My clues use complete thoughts in the poem so how did you decide what was the first letter? Could be p,h or b for home of brown. I like the twin concept and am guessing you mean pairings like ‘end draw nigh’ + ‘quest to cease’ or ‘go in peace’

    • Eliza, you are giving MD a run for his money in winning the intellectual solve contest. Your prize is a soak in the GS Hot Spring Pool. Great stuff, but it didn’t help Doc Holiday with his ailments.

    • Eliza, i really enjoyed reading your post. I would love to hear more of what you have to say.
      2 years in and i believe it will be solved in this fashion.

    • Eliza, you stated…
      ‘Forrest’s subliminal message is: if I tell you something that is completely unbelievable, don’t believe it.’
      Just my opinion but many would say his treasure fits your description of what not to believe. At what point do you trust someone’s word or believe it’s all a marketing ploy?
      Please know that I’m not being sarcastic and truly want to know what determines believability. I have a degree in Business Marketing and understand selling a product or idea so this is more a question of taking someone’s word, especially when you don’t know the person. Believability and truth don’t always walk as friends and that’s confusing to me.

      • Nor, I think that the best answer to your question can be found in the 1939 version of the Wizard of Oz. Professor Marvel and the Wizard of Oz are both played by the same actor. Both employ deception, although in the case of Professor Marvel, it was with the best of intentions; he knew Dorothy had run away from home and he wanted to convince her to return. I sincerely believe that Forrest designed TTOTC with the best of intentions.

    • The architect of the poem anticipated that there might be complaints, when the solution to the poem was revealed, that there had been no way to discover the wordplay rules required to decipher it. Consequently, a set of relatively straightforward “homages” to various key people in Forrest’s life were scattered throughout the poem. By uncovering them one could then become familiar with the “rules.” The most obvious were the two I described earlier, Eric Sloane and Everard Hinrichs in Stanza 1. In Stanza 2, the word “far” is used twice. Each is diagonally in proximity to “the.” Combining the letters yields two versions of “father.” As astree recently pointed out, there are also two versions of “mother” just two lines below. In Stanza 4 it is not hard to see “Marvin rest in peace.”

      The technique of stringing together the first letters of a sequence of lines also becomes important at the end of the solve, and there is one clue pointing specifically in this direction. Homage is paid to Native Americans in Stanza 6 (hint: they often braid their hair), and the first letters of the four lines in Stanza 1 are A A I A. If you Google this you will find Association on American Indian Affairs.

      One last piece of detective work yields another hint that the letter collection approach is important. Strap yourself into the Wayback Machine and look at the webpage for the Old Santa Fe Trading Company. Until February of 2011, there was always a period at the end of the Co. at the end. It mysteriously disappeared in July of that year. IMO this was because the architect noticed that the first and last two letters of the title as well as a group of four letters from the middle, flagged by the newly moved horns, yielded “Cool feat,” perhaps in self-homage to the architect.

      • Good point Eliza. There are others also. He pays homage to other treasure hunts using wordplay. Stanza 1, line 1 (the number 11) gONE alONE (11 again). The word “and” appears 11 times in the poem. In lines 2, 4, and 6, the first word is And capitalized. Then line 8 the first words are put in and the last word is Brown capitalized. And is an anagram of Dan. “Dan Brown” author of DaVinci Code, Angels and Demons and Lost Symbol.

        Dan Brown uses wordplay such as anagrams and homonyms in his novels which are treasure hunts.

        From “DaVinci Code” – “Rose Line” led to “Rosslyn” Chapel. “San Greal” (Holy Grail) and “Sang real” (royal blood).
        Anagrams – Mona Lisa = “Amon L’Isa”, Amon and Isis, O, Draconian devil = “Leonardo da Vinci”, Oh, lame saint = “The Mona Lisa”, So dark the con of man = “Madonna of the Rocks”.

        Another one is Kit Wlliams author and desisigner of “Masquerade”. Hear me all and listen good. “Take it” = “take Kit”.

    • Eliza, very creative thinking, There are so many ways to interpret the clues and hints and your way is just as good as any of the ones that have been posted here. Are you planning a trip soon? I’d love to hear your complete solution after your search, whether you find the treasure or not. 🙂

  90. The point of this line of thinking is not to push a specific agenda. It’s just an exercise in logic to stimulate discussion. Sure there are multiple ways to interpret everything he says. So if you step outside of your comfort zone and follow my train of thought, does it make sense that the entire path is quite compressed rather than quite long as many have proposed? That’s all I’m saying….something to think about.

    I think if you let yourself wander down this line of thinking it also opens up other less discussed interpretations for TFTW.

    • Marvin,

      I think I may have had the most compressed solve of all. All the clues were embedded within
      the bronze statue of Our Lady of Guadalupe, one block north of downtown Santa Fe. The history behind it is truly remarkable…a miracle that can be witnessed even today.

  91. Eliza, with all due respect, I do think you are wrong and here is why. I see most searchers approaching this in the same way and making the same mistake. I’ll start with the required IMO.

    The puzzle is not linear (a step by step trail). It’s easy to see why people approach it this way, because the he structured the poem to read that way. But that is part of the deception you alluded to in your first paragraph. The puzzle and the solution is a non-linear system where the whole is greater than the sum of it’s parts. Think of a symphony or a tapestry. The place to start solving is not WWWH. As you say, take what he says with a grain of salt. “Begin it where warm waters halt” does not mean begin solving the puzzle there. Another deception.

    • Jack,
      Mr. Fenn states that the clues must be followed sequentially. Please elaborate on your thought process keeping this in mind…I am all ears…listening good.

      • Ok here goes. I’m giving away an important part of my solution but maybe it will trigger a post that will help me.
        First of all F says the poem will lead to the treasure “if you know where to start.” Now Dal will say he says start WWWH based on his statement “Start at the beginning. Where do warm waters halt?” You do have to do both – start at the beginning and find where warm waters halt. But are those 2 sentences necessarily related to each other? I think you have to know where to start solving the puzzle in order to find wwwh. If you start in the right place, you can solve the puzzle and it will lead you to the place where warm waters halt.

        So where do you start? Read Forrest’s answer to Jenny Kile where he quoted the TS Eliot poem. Pay attention to his statement preceding his quoting the poem. He is talking about analyzing his poem when he quotes Eliot, not about the trail to the treasure. Start with the question at the beginning of stanza 5. Now solve the clues consecutively – stanza 5, 6, 1, 2, 3, 4. The last line in stanza 4 is take the chest and go in peace, the end of the trail and back to the place you began with a new understanding. If you solved it correctly you are at the place where you can find wwwh.

        Keep in mind that Forrest does not think in straight lines. If you don’t believe that, read his most recent answer to Jenny’s question. He is a non-linear thinker which is probably why he struggled in school. So his puzzle and it’s solution are non-linear. All IMO, of course.

        • Recently someone stated, and I thought it was Forrest that if your solve was correct for HOB and you went forward correctly it wouldn’t matter if your WWH was correct.

        • “Forrest Fenn, don’t you know anything?” I replied, “Miss Ford, I don’t even suspect anything.”

          Non-linear thinking is not conducive to good grades in the American school system!

        • Jack,

          I follow your logic and it certainly explains two of the most puzzling elements of the poem.

          1. why is the line “take the chest and go in peace” in the middle.

          2. why a why? The question in the poem is very curious.

          I always was puzzled by #1 and never gave much thought to #2 being more than just filler. Your logic addresses both, but so does the following.

          View the poem as if Mr. Fenn is telling us to following in his footsteps and he will show us exactly how he hid the chest. “As I have gone….” This also ties in with #2. Note that Mr. Fenn does not say So why is it that I have gone, but he states So why is it that I must go. We are still following him when he tells us to “just take the chest and go in peace.” All the way until he states, I have done it…

          To me, one of the big unaddressed questions by the searchers is the following.

          What does “go in peace” refer to?

          If the sequence in the poem is just as it is written…then this must be answered. I also have an idea as to why he chose to put the question in the poem where he did…all about sequencing.

          I like your thoughts Jack, but when Mr. Fenn states “don’t mess with my poem”…I am going to listen and I think your approach challenges this dictum.

          • Wind, there may be more than one type of chest there. Perhaps an older grave nearby. Chest can mean casket and of course there could be an ancient skeleton in a cave. I’m sure you’ve thought of those as well. Just throwing it out for discussion.

          • Wind, I also believe we won’t want to disturb the habitat, and the exit is shaped like a peace sign(no pun)

          • I disagree with the idea that starting with the question is messing with the poem. Forrest designed a puzzle. He chose a poem rather than prose to present the puzzle because he could use poetic license to make it more cryptic and to give him flexibility with design without the constraints of prose. He could place the starting point and end anywhere he chooses. As long as we don’t change the words or anything else in the poem and keep the clues consecutive as he says to do, then we haven’t messed with the poem. We have analyzed it and determined the point at which we should start solving it.

          • Jack, I see your argument and at this point in the Chase, I think it should be considered valid…I just wonder if Mr. Fenn would have taken that approach with it…and the messing with the poem comment causes me some pause. I liike the approach though particularly if you can get a solve that is really solid with it.

            For my current solve attempt, my path follows the poem exactly as written with many of the word references depicted in images along the way sequentially on GE. For example, wise, why, end, blaze, brave, listen, title…kind of like a child’s game of hide and seek for images in the picture.

            Best of luck with your non-linear approach. I am an engineer so that probably explains my reservations.

          • Jack,

            This is the first time, on any blog, I have heard my solution to the poem, talked about in a clear way. IMO you are so right on. May I say congratulations.

            It is simple, concise and difficult – all at the same time. To put a person with what he gave us to work with – is time consuming and has indeed taken me almost two years of constant work – and of course, I am not done.

            Best of luck to you – and thanks for making me feel not so alone.

        • ITCT,
          Ahh, a kindred spirit. You said “It is simple, concise and difficult – all at the same time.”
          The final solution will be elegant. Our solutions must pass the elegance test.

          elegant: adj.
          [common; from mathematical usage] Combining simplicity, power, and a certain ineffable grace of design. Higher praise than ‘clever’, ‘winning’, or even cuspy.
          The French aviator, adventurer, and author Antoine de Saint-Exupry, probably best known for his classic children’s book The Little Prince, was also an aircraft designer. He gave us perhaps the best definition of engineering elegance when he said “A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.”

        • Jack,
          Agree with the non-linear concepts you suggest. As far as your example, I equate the TS ELIOT poem as to return to the first stanza after you have solved the poem and you will look at it differently (as if seeing it for the first time). I think this would help explain why the spot was chosen. IMO
          The Wolf

  92. “Pi, 2pies, pineapple pie, nickels, marbles, yo-yos, spinning tops. The TS Eliot poem. Circles are a major hint on how to solve the poem’s puzzle.”

    This was posted this morning on Mike’s blog by Jack.

    It is right on target. Think about how pi is defined.

    • ( )

      CC UU 88 00 OO
      circle possibilities… whooo knew asked the wise old owl wearing glasses.

      have fun teasing the trout
      .. >})}*>..

      • Indeed, Whooo knew… I always thought those Wimpey nickels suggested something bison or indian… perhaps a hump or a nose (knows?), myriads of next level ideas.

        A couple more double circley things– ΩΩ and the infinity symbol (I couldnt find one but its sorta like owl eyes). Loved the trout Nor.

        • Old – of course you are correct on the nickels, they have everything to do with bison, as does Temple Texas. 22’s are the right rifle/theme, fun how they tie in 3 or 4 different ways. 1’s also show up on triplicate forms. Too much to convey and certain I have only scratched the surface of possible solves.

      • Speaking of circles (more about pi later), think about this favorite quote of Forrest’s:

        “We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started… and know the place for the first time.”

        Now look at the poem, but rather than stacking the stanzas vertically, lay them out horizontally in your mind’s eye, generating a ribbon of words. Now bend this ribbon into a circle, so that its end meets up with its beginning. Finally, look at the four words on the borders of the ribbon where the two ends meet:

        … and good as gold…

      • There have several recent posts about the relevance of pi, and it has also been noted that it often appears in pairs. In trigonometry, 2 pi is equivalent to one full circle, and of course the definition of pi is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. Picture in your mind a circle with its diameter drawn in. It resembles a theta, which is the mathematical symbol for an angle.

        Now look at the cover of TFTW. The image is tilted at an angle, and see how the shadow of the stick bisects the angle made by the man’s shadow and the vertical side of the photograph. Everything about the cover points to “angle,” and water is a secondary theme.

        Keep these two thoughts (1) theta (2) water in mind. They will show up together later.

        Finally, if you want to practice your clue construction skills, go back to Stanza 4. You can generate “theta” in two different ways if you look quickly down.

        • Eliza, thank you, however I am no longer able to continue with blog posts. My best wishes

        • Eliza-
          I can guarantee that there is no intended hidden message in the cover photo of TFTW. Look at the photo credit for that image and you will see what I mean…

          • Hi Dal-

            I have a copy of the first book, but not TFTW. Is there a way I can read about the photo credit?

          • Forrest had Dal take the photo for him 3 days prior to going to press. It was near the place FF used to swim as a child.
            The Wolf

          • Dal,

            I understand that you took the picture, but way back when the book came out I emailed you and you said that the shadow was added by Forrest. IMO Forrest only needed a picture of any water. The fact that it was of where he use to fish, and the fact that it only came days before publishing may have been intentional to throw people off. The shadow is extremely important to my one and only 2 year old (not yet finished) solve.

            Fred Y.

          • You might be right Fred. But remember that the shadow was added by Forrest’s designer. I sent my photo directly to the designer. She added the shadow. There were several versions using different photos that I took. The decision to use that one was based on design strengths and was completely in the hands of the designer. In the end it was a joint decision by two people…Forrest agreed to their decision.

          • The plot thickens. Anyway, it wasn’t just the photograph per se that caught my eye. It was the way it was carefully cropped and turned at an angle.

          • Eliza…see my note to Fred. The angle of the photo was by me. The shadow was added by the designer. Forrest’s only input to that cover photo was approval of the final product.

          • Dal,
            Thanks for the info on the cover shot. Really the only thing that is relevant to me was that it had a shadow of a person. Maybe he made that call since it was in his writing in the forward of the book.

            Fred Y.

    • In reallity if you look at the poem… I could say the same thing about triangles and squares. “All you need is the poem”, ff

      • James, IMO there are pictograph circles in the poem, as the circle is symbolic of life. I’m way out there on the next concept which is usually met with snickers from the brainy bunch, but TFTW may be viewed as a circular type of treasure map. Even contains na directional signs. Much pictoral symbolism throughout both bks. ff said, “art is where you find it, imagination is more impt than knowledge.”
        BTW. You asked about fishing guides, and unfortunately they are pricey if you plan to learn, drift with a guide, use their equipment. We only enjoy that once a year as a big treat. If you are in Montana, Ennis, Bozeman & West YS all have terrific guiding services. Also depends on how experienced your group is. If you own your own equipment, locals are happy to tell you what current hatches are and well worth the money to purchase a few of their flies. Wrong lure, no fish. This time of the year the Madison may be elbow/arc room only if wading.

        • Nor, wouldn’t it be agreed upon that if you look at the poem and the books as a whole you can find geometric symbolism in everything? That’s all I’m saying. You can’t limit yourself to just “round”…. more with “the promise” of triangles as leading the way and directional connections. All verbiage.

          • James, I agree with your stated geometric possibilities for mapping the poem. My mind wanders all directions on solve possibilities. It’s both the best and worst quality of creative people who don’t have strong logic receptors. I arrive at conclusions organically through intuition, then check against logical paths. Completely opposite of most men.

          • Not familiar with “Rick’s Blog”. Could be interesting reading not only on this subject. Got the link? Send in email.

          • @james, I don’t know who Rick is or anything about his blog. Can you send it to me?

          • It was mentioned by Eliza in this line (thread) of replies earlier. I don’t have. Anybody? Anybody? Eliza?

        • @nor
          I have a few questions about fly fishing and since you seem to know something about it would you mind emailing me?
          use my name here and add usa at gmaildotcom
          Thanks in advance

          • @RickinFlorida, I’m having problems with hacked emails and suspect someone else is using my email accounts Rick. So pethaps I can help you briefly on the blog. I’m no expert but live with a bunch on fly fishers.

          • @Rickinflorida,
            My email accounts were recently hacked and I suspect someone else is trying to utilize them. So, can i help you briefly on the blog? I’m not the greatest fisher, but the men in my life are enthusiasts.

          • Nor, If I may suggest somethings. 1.) download spybot search & destroy ( http://www.safer-networking dot org/ ) it is a free program that will find viruses etc.
            Once installed run a scan and do a clean up. 2.) restart comp after clean up and change email password. Make password letters, numbers an toss in a capital letter or two. Best wishes.

          • Hi nor…
            I understand the email issues and I hope all works out for you with that issue. 🙂

    • Eliza, can you give me more info on where to find the comment by Jack on Mike’s blog. Or which TS Eliot poem it references, and context. Thanks

  93. Nor-

    The first clue is Glenwood Springs and the second clue is Route 6.

    The first letters are G and R and are unique with respect to their respective clues, as are the seven others.

  94. @Chad – thank you for the helpful tips on safeguarding email and computers. Your kindness is appreciated. My safety tip for the day is…when hiking in rattlesnake country pray it’s also great horned owl habitat since they dine on rattlers. Have a nice weekend Chad. I’ll be gone a few days from Dals blog. 🙂

  95. No wonder this treasure may stay hidden for a long time.
    The architect of this poem had to construct it in such a way that it is easy enough for the redneck in a pickup but yet be hard enough that the deep thinking folks with the high IQ`s would have a hard time solving it.
    Here we are still trying to determine where to start and why Mr f used this word in the poem instead of that word.

    I have a question…did Mr f write the poem “only” to take us to the treasure or is he teaching/showing us something along the way…?

  96. Rick in Florida

    I think both. 🙂

    The area I search is straight forward with the poem I do not mess with the poem. While using my imigination at home I feel like I know where it could be then when I actually get to the location I become lost lol that was my first and second visit. Now Labor Day we will see what happens 🙂 with water high. It will be my 4 the visit .

    Then I have to find the Blaze somehow , the cold , and the wood

    Still using my mind to figure that out !!!!! 🙂

  97. Does anyone have an interpretation they are willing to share, for “and this store was now number one on the list.” (pg12)…. #1 implies there are other #’s that follow it, or, do you think store means storage or cache, not a bookstore. i find this chapter one of the most interesting. I think it pinpoints Norris in YSNP, but a journey then follows …. however, if it is a circle journey as some suggest ….

    I think the arc of the whole book is in play. Thoughts?

  98. I just love fishing, nature and gold, lol… this guy is one of my hero’s, Darcy Cooper. Watch this u tube episode and you will prob be hooked. The series is in the 4th season, but it has a great progression season to season. I think this is something Mr. Fenn would love, hope you all like it as much as I do.


    watch this and you will find the treasure… prob not b4 me but you will still find treasure.

    • Navyigator, nice find on the video. IMO two things mosst important. name of the claim which matches an area that I had previously studied, and campfire.

    • Navy, thanks what a great video. I really enjoyed it. Last week I took a fly fishing class. When I was up Yellowstone last month, I was envious of all the fly fishing along the firehole river heading up and back down the 50 plus mile canyon. Now to go buy my gear before I head up to Montana. I wonder if Forrest has a good fly rod he would sell me.

    • Glad you all liked, I am gearing up myself for next months trip to do a little fly fishing on the side.

  99. Geydelkon,
    I would bet Mr f has several fly rods. Whether he wants to sell you one is a good question. I wonder if Mr f has one that is a 5 – 6 combo…?

    • He would probably tell me it won’t do any good to find the treasure. There isn’t any water nearby, its all dried up, now go get the blaze.

      • I believe it is near water…of course it is just my opinion. If my memory serves me right…I am shooting from the hip here…in TOTC Mr f makes a comment about folks being in his fishing hole and says…that is my place and mine “alone” how dare they go there.

        • I will need to go look at the book again, I think I need to order another book from Mr. Fenn. I keep leaving it at my work. So many great ideas from chasers I need to access the book quickly. Hmmm that gives an idea.

          • I loaned my book out and I am waiting to get it back. There are a few things I need to read again myself.
            Was the Firehole River busy with folks fishing…?

          • Yes, I wouldn’t be alone around any bend. Even though I had fishing gear with me, I couldn’t find a place to drop a jig. Anyway, you can only fish with barbless hooks.

          • IMO…there are other hints in the book that refer to fly fishing and that is why I believe the chest will be close to water. The ball of string f tied 3 pieces to…a fly line has 3 pieces…main line, leader and tippit. The story about Bessie the cow swishing her tail back and forth like a fly fisherman and the 6 cats that got 5 squirts of milk and he was a good shot…meaning…a flyrod outfit is set up to match each other in weight, a #5 rod with a #5 line however an experienced person can go up or down one number. The fact that f said he was a good shot tells me a fly fisherman has to put the fly in a perfect place for the trout or the trout will be spooked.

          • There are things I have parted with that were part of my life. Many went to a good cause to help the few. Here is a question for Mr. Fenn.
            Are you willing to have an auction of your personal fly fishing gear here on Dals site. Proceeds to go to a foundation, perhaps make a wish? You can’t take it with you.

  100. Hi Amy

    I know you are a CO searcher! If you are near Steamboat Springs on Labor Day you should check out the Wild West Air Fest. I know nothing about planes but they are cool to watch flyover. Enjoy the rest of your summer. Nancy

  101. Just a little story last year about the blaze. So while me my husband and son were searching along a creek and that was wooded I was really trying to find that blaze marking on a tree or rock so the boys were ahead of me and they put this orange pole in the ground as I came upon it and didn’t realize it they said hey there’s the blaze right there and I’m saying where is it. They said right there In front of you I still didn’t see it but finally I saw the bright orange pole in the ground and starting laughing they played a nice trick on me.

    So either I was looking to hard or not hard enough . If it was a snake it would have bit me lol

    In all they claimed I wasn’t even trying to find a Blaze.

    You gotta love the chase 🙂

    • Hi Amy, it’s interesting about the orange. Hunters wear orange because animals find it difficult to see. It’s called Safety Orange and is also known as Blaze Orange.

      • Pip & Amy, the flat orange posts are Forest Service Boundary markers placed by surveyors. Very interesting to know it’s referred to as blaze orange. Saw numerous FS markers on last search and searched around each to no avail.
        Thank you for a new “crayola” it sits nicely beside macaroni and cheese orange:)

  102. I have some thoughts that I would like to share.

    In considering the trip to hide the chest, IMO Forrest would have been very careful. He definitely would not want to leave a trail. So this leads me to believe that his trip to hide the chest, would have had to be within a reasonable distance from home, that would allow him to make it in one day.

    He surely wouldn’t stay over night somewhere, because he would leave a record that anyone working in the hotel he stayed at could look up. Staying at a friend’s house would have it’s own set of problems. So as he says in the poem, “As I have gone ALONE in there”. Then there is his other comment regarding “Keeping a secret”.

    Considering travel time, both by car and on foot in going to the final resting place for the chest, he would have very possibly have done it in 6 to 7 hours one-way. Leaving around 6 A.M., eating his sandwich around noon, returning home in time for dinner. And no one aware of what he had done or where he had gone. The perfect plan.

    Not only does this theory fit for some of the things he has commented about, but also reduces the search area considerably. Mind you, this is only my thinking, others may see it differently.

    • German Guy, your theory makes sense and could certainly be correct. But the last thing I’m willing to do is put a limit on what Forrest Fenn could pull off if he set his mind to it.

      • GOG,

        I agree, but I’m sure you can see that we may also be over estimating Forrest as well.

    • GG,
      It is my understanding that Mr f has family around Yellowstone. So he could have hid the chest in the trunk of the car while he and Peggy visited relatives. It would have been very easy for Mr f to say…think I will go wet a line for awhile. Therefore he could have very easily “gone in alone” and no one would ever suspect a thing.

      • Sorry Rick,

        Yellowstone is just not remote enough. Do you actually believe Forrest would share stories of the place he hides his chest? Why?

        Didn’t he make it clear enough that he wants the chest to remain where it is for over a thousand years? If what he said is true, why make it front page news.

        I know a spot that is so remote, I could go there today and no one would ever find me, no less a chest. I ventured there when I was a teen who enjoyed exploring the wilds. I have never told anyone about it in my entire life. If Forrest has such a spot, he surely remembers it.

        • Not remote enough…? There are places in ynp that are very remote and back”wood”. How many thousands of people go there a year…? I can see Mr f smiling to himself saying…I put it right there where thousands of people go a year and no one has found it yet. Think about it…he could literally put the chest 300 feet from one of the “main trails” and all the tourists will “stay on the trail”. Mr f likes to go off trail.
          Of course…this is just my opinion.

          • Rick,

            I understand what you are saying, and as a theory, could be as valid as anyone else’s. Mine was also a theory meant to make people think.

          • Rickin-
            I agree with your theory. BTW A new National Park Service report shows that there were 3,188,030 visitors to Yellowstone National Park in 2013.

        • I don’t think it has to be remote German. In fact we know that people have passed by it. I think Yellowstone is perfect. It’s protected..not likely a subdivision will be built there. Likely to still be protected in a hundred years. His best memories are of that area…not just in the park but around it. He found the spot much earlier than when he planned to end his life there. I think it’s more about the actual hiding spot than about the wider location. In my opinion, people have not found it…not because it is in a remote area but because the hiding spot is so incredibly well concealed.

          • Dal,
            I knew the number of folks visiting ynp was high…but I never knew it was 3 plus million a year.
            Another thought on the hiding spot is that it could be in an area where the spring run off could make it hard to get to. I have been researching an area that is very wet this time of year.

          • Dal,
            FF has not confirmed that searchers went right by the treasure, he only said: “Some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven”.

            According to this statement the searchers went by the other 7 CLUES, that doesn’t necessarily mean they went by the treasure. Unless there is another quote out there, I do not come to that conclusion based on FF’s statement.
            The Wolf

          • Wolf-
            He has. He has made that remark many times. Some in public appearances. Some in interviews. Some on various blogs. Each time it’s a little different..as is his way.

        • Wolf

          i have this in my notes as a quote from Forrest. it would either be from a video i watched, or copied as a direct quote in a Q&A online. sorry but i didnt record the source.

          Q:How many clues has someone cracked?

          A: They’ve cracked the first two, and went right past the treasure chest. Several people have done that.

          • I have a quote for you…

            ‘Please, sir, I want some more.’

            Times are rough at the workhouse…

            More clues for this poor urchin, please?

  103. GG,
    I hear what you are saying 🙂

    The way that I look at this chase is…this is a “game of witts” and Mr f has not only written a book with subtle hints he has also written a poem giving us clues. He sits there laughing at us while we wait to hear his next story so that we can look for another hint because none of us so far have found the chest.
    I wonder what story he will tell next and if he will give us another hint…?

  104. its in a rush,I believe,cattails,tall grass,thisles,etc. he hid it where its not close to a human trail.as for the blaze,I believe it is a white color.thats just me.I’m thinking Colorado still.I went looking for my place at the mother cabrini shrine,I climbed those 300 plus steps,looked through my binocolars.i know that’s spelled wrong.looked far away and close.saw nothing but a doe and a young buck.last night ,I was on my way home down a road ,and a big buck crossed the road right in front of me,almost got his whole left half side,would of messed my car up.lucky I stopped in time,but was so close to him,about 5 feet.scared me to death.that was a first for me.also mr. fenn,talks about having a coors,broncos,but he could be throwing people off too.I love reading his scrapbook stories.i love him ,hes great,a true gentleman.i just wish I could figure out that poem.sometimes,I think ,I must go look for a title,to get the treasure.maybe the title is in the box.alot of stuff runs thru our minds doesn’t it.a million years,theres dinasour ridge,school of mines,hugh M on mountain.lights up at night.then I think boulder canyon,el dorado canyon.my mind is everywhere.I’d know exactly where to go ,if I could figure it out,gosh its hard,I’m not as smart as mr. forrest.good luck to us all.

  105. Hey all,

    Curious thought regarding ..♦ “Some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close”.

    I find it curious that Mr. Fenn uses the word “folks” instead of “searchers”. I believe he is very deliberate in his choice of words and that this comment is no different.

    So what? Well, perhaps the first two clues are very general in nature that would take any number of “folks” to a specific location, but then most “common folks” would naturally go where most folks go…and by doing so….go right past the other seven clues in the process.

    I am testing my latest location against this comment from Mr. Fenn and it seems to play out ok…..but then again….so what?

    any thoughts?

    • on this specific comment, i dont see what difference it makes if he says ‘folks’

      because he is clarifying that they are seachers by saying they mentioned correctly 2 clues to him

      i dont think hes ever made clear that people within 500 ft are searchers. my guess is that they are not. i also think that people who are searchers have been close, but more than 500 ft away … that Forrest knows of

      • That is my point Chris. Did these “folks” even know about the treasure or even that they happened to mention clues in the poem when they sent the email.

        For example. A couple of good friends of Mr. Fenn send him an email…Hey Forrest, Arnie and I are flying to Cody in the Comanche this weekend and plan to venture in to Yellowstone. Are there any specific areas you would recommend on just a short trip? The weather forecast shows perfectly clear skies and no chance of rain…perhaps you would like to join us?

        Clue # 1. As I have gone alone in there…the plane. (mentioned in the email)

        Clue “2. Begin it WWWH….the sky (mentioned in the email)

        Clue # 3 Put in below the home of Brown…now here in lies the big piece of the puzzle. Where would he land. A road? A fairway? A field of farmer Brown?

        So you see, in this scenario the first two clues are possibly very general and innocuously mentioned in an email by people who don’t give a rats about the TC.

        If you hadn’t noticed some of the recent Scrapbooks suggest that Mr. Fenn delivered many treasures personally “alone” in his plane. I have mentioned this before as a possibility, but recognize his age may have precluded such a move with the TC….would have been just like him though. And, I wouldn’t put it past anyone with the balls to land on a fairway and believe with certainty that Mr. Fenn could command an aircraft at the age of 79. After he lands…its no place for the meek.

        Anyway, it is just another look at the comment and I think he would have stated “”searchers” if they were indeed searchers. I am not trying to say that my example is correct, but something similar may be in play here.

        • Sorry Windsurfer no cigar. Some time ago I sent Dal a copy of Forrest’s pilot license. It expired in 2001, due to his age.

          • GG, I have researched as well and found that a pilots’ license Never expires even with age, but a pilot must remain certified. Fine print suggests Mr. Fenn could certify himself being an Air Force pilot.

            Not saying for certain, but still a possibility in my view.

          • I believe he told Dal that after 9/11 happened, there were too many hoops to jump through to keep his license and so he let it go.

            I was told by a searcher a long time ago that Forrest told his son who had emailed Forrest asking if he flew to hide the chest…that he was told he didn’t.

          • It’s sort of humorous Steph, the truth could stare you in the face and yet people won’t see it. I guess that’s where the phrase “human nature” came from.

          • GG,

            Thank you for your responsee.

            I realize the plane is an out-there possibility, but I bet he would have loved to have done it this way.

            I do believe that the poem is sequential just as Mr. Fenn has stated. So in my view the very first line “As I have gone alone in there” actually means the first thing he did when hiding the TC. Or perhaps you feel the first stanza is just filller and hinting of the end offering no meaningful info other than reiterating “in the wood”

            So how about a discussion on what “in there” could mean. Here is a start.

            1. A Plane
            2. A car
            3. His bathroom…first thing you do in the morning.
            4. A Cave?…well then, all the rest of the clues had better fall in line within that cave unless…oh right..something as large as Carlsbad Caverns.

            5. The woods
            6. ?

            So GG, what is your view of “in there” where he went alone that all the rest of the clues come after

            Why isn’t your certainty regarding the plane on the Cheat Sheet?

          • The way I’ve always seen it is, Forrest hid the chest in a very remote location. He states in his TTOTC (page 15) “we will be nothing but the leftovers of history”. I have always believed that his special spot is just that, a forgotten page of history. I feel that he wants this location to take its’ rightful place in the history books. If you understand what I’ve just said, you can also understand the statement “As I have gone alone in there”. On top of that, “And with my treasures bold”. Both lines tell us that he can go there BOLDLY and NO one will see him.

            To me, it seems like the ideal “Lost and Forgotten Page”.

            When places like YNP are said to be valid, due to his enjoyment there, I don’t see anything of lost history in it. I find it very difficult to imagine him posting “Look here for the chest”.

          • Even if he didn’t fly to hide the chest, I’ve considered airports being important. I once looked up names of airports and found connections. I remember researching Kismet and it had something to do with an airline or airport. I thought it had something to do with the West Yellowstone airport. So I thought that maybe airports were important. When he talked about his friend dying, I know they were out of the Taos airport. Just because we might drive to the location, it still might have something to do with a train, plane or boat.

        • Windsurfer, I think that even though Forrest may not have flown his way to his hidey spot, I think it may be helpful to carefully consider an “aerial” view of the area of where one thinks the chest may be hidden. This only really is common sense given the fact that maps are basically an aerial view. I have tried to see my search area from the perspective of a pilot and I have discovered more than I think I would have seen otherwise. Don’t know if what I’ve seen is important yet but it has been helpful to see some stuff that I might have otherwise overlooked.
          As far as what “in there” means here are some possiblitites:
          1.into the mountains
          2.into the woods
          3. into the park
          4.into the creek
          5.into the water
          6.into a cave
          7.my imagination
          8.my memories
          9. into the past
          10. into that historical place
          11. the place we are all trying to locate!

          • Great ideas Raven…thanks,

            I have always been searching in the more public locations as compared to GG. For one, these are places I like to visit and also it is hard for me to believe that “people” as in more than 1, would have been within 500ft if it is truly remote…but who knows. It is best that we cover all avenues and that is what is so great about everyone’s thoughts and searches.

    • YEESH

      Much more recently he’s said that some are VERY close, and yes, these people are looking. So we’d all better hurry up here.

  106. Surfer,
    I agree with Chris on this one as far as “folks vs searchers” not making a difference in the way f stated it. Where I believe the chest to be the folks within 500 ft of it would be fishermen or back”wood” hikers.

          • Hi Forrest, you said it was a man who came physically closest to the treasure, but who has come mentally closest, like, who seems most likely to interpret the clues correctly – man or woman? ~Lily McG

            She’s playing the gender card folks but I’m wise to it. Perhaps all searchers think they have been mentally close to the treasure but that doesn’t matter much when you get to the bank. A man has been within striking distance but so have some women. That’s probably not a good subject to discuss considering the volcanic effect it could have in certain blog arenas. I wish someone would ask me a question that I would feel comfortable answering, like what color is a daffodil.f

          • why should we be interested in the definition for ‘striking distance’ when Forest never used the term in relation to people close to the treasure

          • Striking distance is a military term for close enough to strike the enemy. It is relative to the weapon to be used.
            The Wolf

          • Actually, a strike is thrown at 60 feet 6 inches. It is 90 feet between bases…

            However, now that the Forrest comment of a “…male being closest, but he may have been with a female…” has been brought up again…I must say that I think that is a very interesting comment that hasn’t been explored thoroughly.

            How in the world does that statement make sense if he is relying on e-mails? Either a searcher sends a description of their search, and lets Fenn know their wife/girlfriend/significant udder is with them, or they say they are alone. That statement means he is unsure. The fact that he isn’t sure leads me to believe that he is watching the site with a trail-cam. Let’s say the cam kicks on when someone gets close, and at that point he sees a male…then a female comes into camera view, but the spot is travelled by enough hikers that the girl could have been with the male…or not. That makes sense.

            Also, how specific do you think search explanations in email to Forrest are? For him to ascertain from an email that someone was the closest, the description of the search would have to be pretty exact such as:

            “…walked down lame otter trail, saw the huge boulder 600 feet to the left, walked toward it and searched by the tree with an “F” carved in it…” To place a searcher less than 500 feet away, that would have to be close to the search description. Doesn’t seem like a realistic email to me, and I don’t think that is how he figured out who has been closest. I really don’t believe an email let him know who was closest, there has to be another way he determined that.

            Why is all this important? Because with technology, it is much easier to search for a trail-cam than a bronze chest. If a radio frequency detector is not a part of your search gear, I think you are doing it wrong.

            IMO, of course!

          • Scott C. – you bring up an interesting thread many of us have questioned. Regarding trail cams, my search area is remote without any cell service or electricity. Are there long-life battery operated cams? Exactly what apparatus do radio frequency detectors detect? Thank you for raising the issue.

          • While trail cam is an interesting idea, I don’t think it’s reliable in one spot for 4+ years.
            There are ways he can know if someone’s been 500′ away other than email, and in fact, other than someone even contacting him, that have nothing to do with surveillance.
            Ex: A male reporter prints a story about their own TTOTC trek. The photo credits are an androgynous name. FF reads the magazine/paper, and sees the location.
            Ergo — he knows a man and possibly a woman have been close.

          • Who’s saying you’re wrong Chris? I didn’t mean to if I did. No one’s right until this thing is over.

            Nor, RF detectors can find routers, cell phones, wireless speakers, cordless phones, etc. all operate on radio frequency. More importantly wireless audio bugs and wireless video bugs use RF as well, and maybe the most important, wireless cameras that can communicate with GPS satellites use RF at very high frequencies. There are long battery life cameras, and also solar powered…in fact, all of the DOT highway cams in Colorado are solar.

            I like CJinCA’s answer below about how Forrest knows someone has been very close…I think he once told Stephanie she had been within 200 feet. I have never read a search story that was detailed enough to pinpoint someone’s location to that distance. A searcher would literally have to tell Forrest how many paces off a trail, how many feet from a tree, or exact GPS coordinates for him to know for certain who was closest. That kind of detail is not in any of the search stories I have seen.

            And think of this angle…I have never sent F a search story. I’ll bet many thousands of people have not sent him their search story, yet he knows who has been closest? He didn’t say: “Of the search stories I have been sent, I know a man has been the closest.” I grant you he said he know’s where people have been when they email him, but he didn’t say that is the only way he could know. Those that share with him by email are a small fraction of the search faction 🙂

            Also, my spidey senses tell me that I am being watched when I am at my location.

          • Scott, thank you. I appreciate your kindness to respond. Best wishes, as I’m no longer chasing gold or jewelry. Plenty of treasures in my life to enjoy as is. 😉 nor is to be no more in blogosphere.

          • But,… but…. but…. what what will we do with all the extra space?

            Seriously, good luck, you will be missed.

          • @Old Shadows, I already miss standing in the refreshing shadow of your wisdom! Take good care 🙂

          • @ NOR. Have you asked the family if you can check in every now and then or this a cold turkey scenario? Will miss the insight but totally understand how important family is. I’m giving it one shot with the group of mine. Then we move on.

          • @James, there may be a little grace to say howdy once in a while. No plans to continue research or post info. Best wishes to you and yours James!

          • Nor, I’m hoping you come back for a visit from time to time. As your place on this blog fades away, seems you left a little magic in the air. Just yesterday, out of the blue, i think I solved the first clue, the staring place, (not the WWWH). An Aha! sprang right off the page, followed by the Haha of some silly kid, and finally the Ahhhh showed up . Did you leave that?

          • @OldShadows remember to dream big /*•. Keeping wonder in your heart is important to glimpsing eternity. Wanted to say happy flying. Bye

          • Nor,

            Please say it ain’t so! You are leaving? I will tell you that you have provided more insightful information to me than any other contributor on this blog. You seem to know a lot about everything which a great asset to have on our side of the Fenn master.

            Even if you are not searching, please provide your knowledge as I have no imagination and am therefore…lost without you.

        • In regard to being close to the treasure I’d guess striking distance would be less than the 500 ft he mentioned some time ago – that seems too far to me. I’m guessing Forrest knows someone has been within striking distance because searchers are giving him information about where they have been and/or have sent pictures of where they searched or ????

          • CJinCA-Forrest’s answer to one of the questions posted on Jennies site on 7-1-2014 says clearly that he know where people are searching based on their emails and that’s how he knows they got the first two clue’s correct. I also think its reasonable to conclude that his uncertainty of whether there were women with the guy or guys (he believes were closest to the treasure) is because the searcher didn’t specify in their emails (not because he is relying on cams as some have suggested). Many of the stories posted on this website don’t specify who was with the story teller.

          • Hi Raven. My comment was not really about how Forrest knows if someone has gotten the first 2 clues correct but rather how does he know they have been within “striking distance” (whatever he means by that). I know people send f emails, and many people have posted their solves here, but unless the emails are very detailed or the pictures they send are recognizable, how does he know exactly how close they were to the treasure to say they were within “striking distance”? It still could mean he has a trail cam set up. To me that phrase means they were way closer than the 500 feet he has mentioned in the past. Striking distance could be as close as 10-20 ft or less. Of course we never really know what f means by some of his phrases – same kind of vagueness as not in “close proximity” to a human trail. 🙂 In the end, it doesn’t help solve the clues so back to the poem, books, and maps!

          • CJinCA, Maybe I’m reading FF’s answer to narrowly but the “striking distance” terminology was used in response to a question as to whether a man or woman was “mentally closest” to the treasure as opposed to physically closest. I assume he could only ascertain what is in their head by what was expressed verbally or in writing.

          • Raven, it’s interesting how we interpret the same answer differently! When he said “Perhaps all searchers think they have been mentally close to the treasure but that doesn’t matter much when you get to the bank.” I took that to mean “mentally close” doesn’t count. Then when he added “A man has been within striking distance but so have some women.”, I understood that sentence to mean he was talking about who was physically close. Many have debated previously about how he can be so sure that the treasure has not been found or how he would know how close people have been. But like I said, it doesn’t really help me either way – I was just curious about his choice of words and what they might imply in regard to how he would know how close someone was.

          • CJinCA

            that is a good point that i didnt think about

            Fs reply may have been in regard to who was mentally closest to solving the clues, not physically close, since that was the question that was asked

            i wonder if there was a reason he says “A man”, but then “some women”.

            why not say some men and some women have been close (mentally?)

            is he inferring there has only been A man?? hmmm

          • oh sorry CJinCA

            just realized i didnt read your answer close enough

            in any case, the question is if F was answering relating to mentally or physically close

          • Right Chris. My interpretation of what he meant seems different from everyone else’s. I tend to parse every word. 🙂

          • “… But so have some women” what??? That’s the question. It’s “implied” that they are like the man in striking distance. That’s it. You know ff… Parts of his sentence can mean other things.

    • 23Kachinas, I took note of recent comments.. This is Thrill of correct punctuation, Thrill of elegant solves, Thrill of intelligent discourse. I may have to take to flight! 🙂

        • I mean I agree with 23Kachinas AND Swan. See? I told you I ain’t no good with details.

          • JC1117 – Great photo 🙂 and you are welcome to hang out in my pond anytime. We’re a happy flotilla and play lots of canasta. Speaking of that, I have a new thought on WWH (unless it was discussed prior to my arrival)
            IMO one solution to WWH is at the Fenn’s log cabin in West Yellowstone. Forrest may still be embarrassed about a cold and very public bath. No hot waters, no warms waters…no waters at all in their one room log cabin in West Yellowstone. Please recall that is when Forrest took to river bathing in the Firehole.

          • swan-
            That one cabin soon multiplied and as they were turned into rentals hot water was added. The Fennhaven was located on Boundary a couple of blocks north of The Dude. There are some old cabins there now that are rentals but Forrest says that those are not the Fennhaven and that the cabins his family built were sold and might be somewhere but they are not on the original site. Chip and Crayton disagree. They both think those cabins were the cabins that once was Fennhaven. But Crayton and Chip are both in their 50s. Neither was around when the cabins were built. So who knows? I suppose someone with access to property records in Gallatin County could look up the history of that parcel…but even if that was the site of Fennhaven it might be hard to prove that the cabins there now are the ones built by the Fenn family. Old photos seem to show a resemblance but with Forrest saying they are not his Dad’s cabins…what are ya gonna do??

          • Dal, interesting bit. I have a little remaining time to research while on holiday this week. Do you have further info re: parcel; how many blocks north 2? why family dispute when F would clearly know. Can share info w/ you when done. I’m driving all day tomorrow to flthd lake. Thanks for interesting info, also about the weather crk claim which I hope to follow up on as well.

          • The cabins in question are on Boundary between Firehole and Gibbon next lot north of the Branding Iron Motel. Two face Boundary and there is a cluster of other odd buildings behind them. Crayton lived there with Skippy for awhile. Chip compared old photos of Forrest and Donnie with the remaining cabins and felt they could be the same with 70 years of renovations and neglect added in. I’ve looked and can draw no definitive answers but I have no reason to disbelieve anyone. It is an interesting conundrum but I don’t think they have anything to do with the poem..no man-made structures…

          • Oh yeah! Now I remember that. I really should read the book a few more times through. I think I remember him writing that he found a nice peacefull spot there. WhY not? I certainly wood. Hopefully I get a chance to go there one day…sooner better than later. 🙂

  107. Dal,

    What you said above caught my eye. Branding Iron Motel. In TFTW every chapter ends with what appears to be a ff branding mark. All but one that is, chapter 8 (jumping the milk truck) it ends with a picture of an iron (page 43). My solve has been NM all along so it does not help me, maybe it will mean something to someone else. Went to NM last week and sent an email to Forrest before leaving asking about hotels he recommended, and in his response he used the word motels instead. Thought it was odd, but maybe it was intentional?

    Fred Y.

    • As iron sharpens iron
      So one person sharpens another !!!!! 🙂 that’s what that means

  108. My First Stanza interpretation: No real hint about location. He is simply saying that he has a secret that can be kept by him because he was alone when he hid it. It is an “Introduction” only and to confirm that no one should bug anyone else for clues because no one else has info but him. Starting the poem with “as” has intrigued me since the first time I read the poem but after reading “To far to walk” I’ve now concluded that he starts quite a few sentences with “as”, mostly likely because he doesn’t want to start with “I” as he recently referred to. Thanks Forrest for that trick because I too sometimes think my writing has too many sentences with “I” at the beginning. AS I may be too simple minded to know better, I just don’t see any hidden messages in this stanza. If there is a clue here, then it might be the word “alone”. The only way I see that Colorado is in play would be because of this word “alone” since it isn’t mentioned anywhere in his books, or stories, isn’t his home, or a place that played a substantial role as a youngster.

    • Ok, so I’m having a little conversation with myself but I’d like to add to my comment above that his telling everyone in the first stanza that he did this alone is not an insignificant statement. My guess is that he wanted to be very clear that he was his doing ALONE and that his wife, daughters, grandkids, and others close to him know nothing–its his secret. My guess is he would want to shield them from being hassled and this stanza helps to do that.

  109. Hi Dal (or anyone that might know),

    I recall Mr. Fenn saying something like ‘ . . . if you have solved all of the clues correctly . . . you’ll be able to go in/with confidence . . . and walk right up to the treasure.’ I think that is more/less correct, but would appreciate your confirmation if you have that quote handy.

    What I’ve been rolling around in my head lately is that if the above statement is true, then one would need to be able to identify the blaze (first) – assuming it is a ‘clue’ in the poem . . . in order to go with confidence and walk right up to the treasure. If you didn’t know what the blaze was, you wouldn’t be able to go with confidence. Make sense?


    • Sidd

      i have made that point from day one when i first got on board the Chase train

      F has indicated to us with his statements that the clues can be solved and known and seen on a map before you go to the treasure location

      ( see “wisely” wadded up the map to start the fire in LFLAC … also page 87 … the fireball was huge)

      i think one reason is so that someone in FL is not a great disadvantage vs someone living in the rockies for example. anyone can figure this thing out and solve the poem. if you do, only one trip is needed.

      regardless of any possible reason tho, F has indicated this is what he did

      here are some of the quotes i have in relation to your inquiry

      I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did

      The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental

    • Sidd-
      I think these ideas can be rationalized to meet a person’s needs. Confidence is not an exact measure. I recently saw a 4th grader who had all the confidence in the world he could play a trumpet. He was screaming with confidence. But when the instrument was in his hands he couldn’t even make a noise with it. He was dumbfounded and sure that he had been given a malfunctioning instrument. His confidence was strong…and even after evidence that he could not play his confidence was unshaken.

      My point is that confidence is dependent solely on the person. Some people have a lot…others very little. There are different levels of confidence. For me, confidence suggests that I have a good idea where the treasure could be based on my solution. My solution however might not include the blaze because I have not yet determined what the blaze could be. Heck…it might not even include the home of Brown. I might feel I am on the right track but need to look at the lay of the land and increase my confidence.

      Others feel that they cannot be confident unless they have every nuance of the poem figured out. If I felt that way I’d never leave my island.

      You don’t need to be correct in order to have confidence. Look at the Texas Rangers…they have confidence they will win the series every spring. It takes some level of confidence to head out to the Rockies and try your hand at finding the treasure. Confidence is not a guarantee that your solution is correct. Confidence is a very personal attitude. Some folks have a lot of confidence for virtually no visible reason…I envy them. Others have no confidence no matter what the task at hand…poor devils. Fortunes have been made with books that claim to show people how to become more confident.

      Forrest, for instance, has a great deal of confidence. It is what has made him successful, in my opinion at nearly everything he has undertaken. If he decided to pursue something he would feel confident that he could get it. On the other hand, if I pursued something I might feel there was a chance for it to go either way and I’d tell myself, “nothing ventured, nothing gained”. We both have confidence…Forrest’s is stronger than mine.

      So, every time I go out and look for the treasure I have confidence. Maybe not as much as Chris or Nor…but I do have confidence…

      • Well said Dal. Also, isn’t it a reflection of perhaps excessive or misplaced self confidence that leads some searchers to conclude there is no treasure if they didn’t find it where they looked or they think it has already been found when it wasn’t where they expected? Doubting whether you have “it all” isn’t necessarily a sign that you lack the confidence to find the treasure imho. Sometimes all that is needed is a little courage to act despite a fear of being wrong. I would encourage folks to listen to what others are saying but don’t let all the noise distract you from following your own leads. A little anxiety can be a good thing especially when venturing into woods with grizzly bears and wondering if you have enough confidence or whether you deserve the treasure won’t get you anything except heartburn. Good luck everyone.

      • What we have here at times is arrogance not confidence……Arrogance is actually a cover up for lack of confidence.

        Yep, all those people that think they know everything are a real pain to those of us that do. 🙂

    • Sidd-

      Here are a few more statements from f:

      “…decipher what the clues mean; the clues can take you right straight to the treasure chest.”

      “The person who finds the treasure will be the one who solved the clues in my poem and walked to it. No one will happen onto it.”

      “If you figure out the clues in the poem they will take you right straight to the treasure.”

      “The clues are there; they are not easy to follow but certainly not impossible.”

      I agree and believe that one can technically figure out the clues before going out to search; it is also technically possible to put 100 pennies in a box, shake it, and have them all come up heads the first time. I think that after several years into this adventure that we have proven pretty well that getting it right the first time out is pretty low, just like shaking that box of pennies.

      F states “it will take the right combination of cunning and perseverance.”

      And this statement: “And at the end, the one who finds the gold will not feel lucky, but instead, will ask himself, “what took me so long?””

      The clues are difficult to figure out and follow (heck, we don’t even know what the 9 clues really are) so I think that the person who eventually finds the chest will have made multiple trips to the correct area searching, wandering about, and putting it all together. A lot of thinking and imagination will be required to get it correct.

      From his statements, I don’t think f expects someone will figure it all out and get it on their first trip out. If someone did, then that would mean f made it too easy. My two cents… And probably about all that my thoughts are worth.

      • JCM, IMO I understand what you are saying. I don’t feel that many of my pennies came up heads, but I do believe some have been heads. The last time I shook a penny out, it had a crow on one side and a fainted owl on the other (I think the coin is very old). The date next to the owls head is Xed out, so I can’t tell how old it is. Lately, the pennies have been double crows. I am wondering how old that coin is. I think I will look closely at that date to see what I can uncover. As the date doesn’t look like it can be read, I may have to shake another coin out of the box. My pennies are pretty. You should see how incredibly smooth one is. I swear I can see my face when I look at it. Of course the other side of it is a cow. I am beginning to not like crow, seriously! As I was saying… I agree with you JCM. F would say to never stop shaking out coins. I’m shaking like crazy, but I’m not ready to let another penny out just yet. I’ve been keeping busy picking up my other coins from my floorboard. They fall out of my pockets wether I sit still on my couch or go for a short trip in my Toyota. Oh, oh, time to head to LA! C’ ya.

      • I see we are on the same page JCM, care to exchange thoughts? My email is c.lowe4769@gmaildotcom
        Take a chance and drop me some general lines and we can go from there. You may be surprised with what I have to say.

  110. CY said, “F has indicated to us with his statements that the clues can be solved and known and seen on a map before you go to the treasure location”

    Chris, I’d be interested in the actual quote for the “…and seen on a map…” part of this statement. Thanks.

  111. I’m going to throw this thought or theory out there in hopes to stimulate a different perspective for discussion.
    I see a fault to reading the poem, Not so much as interpretation but more as lack of tangible places. If WWWh – Canyon – hoB, no place for the meek- etc are places, are they places that one can actually travel too? Touch? stand on or near ? Even the Blaze may not be a tangible object. Not until the reader fully understand the meaning to the blaze.

    IMO the poem represent hints for the reader to discover clues to travel- not physically- but through a journey never the less. The elusive Blaze maybe just that as well, until we unlock or maybe a better word would be, design the blaze itself.

    Just one man’s opinion. Feel free to dissect it.

    • Seeker, you could be correct but sooner or later the poem has to lead to a physical place. I don’t understand what you are saying, it would be interesting if you could expand on your theory.

      Does your theory fit with what Fenn has said?

      “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.” f

      • Goofy, Dal and all the rest… Maybe the reason the blaze cannot be found is that it is simply a “Memory” in the mind of Mr Fenn. Let me explain a bit if I could. We all have memories of the past… Places and things that just can’t get out of our head. Now take that memory of that “special place or thing” and I can almost guarantee that you could physically draw or design a pathway to that place or time with that item in hand.

        I have a memory of a time when I ran from second to home plate and slid head first in the dusty dirt coming up looking worse than “pig-pen” on a Charlie Brown episode… I was 20. I was playing church softball. We won because of the safe sliding I had done. I know that it was at Resnecheck Field. I know that the field was located on Cameron Rd. I remember it so well not because of what I described but for what happen next. I got kissed by a girl that happened to be there and I liked her. THAT I remember the most. The swing was in the trees. If you look at the trees from GE you won’t find that spot. But I could take you straight there by direction.

        Get my point?!?!

          • because Dal, maybe the key to solving the poem is ESP, extra sensory perception

            maybe F found the key to reading people’s minds. if we can read his mind then we can know what the blaze is

            i know, you want to ask me, if i could read his mind, then i could just know where the treasure is ..

            please, too many questions. im moving on now

          • @ Dal… Right! Hence the poem clues and book hints… Or the poem has the hints and the book has the clues. My point is the path was written from some part in his life… Some experience. Whether anyone one can find the blaze on a map is questionable.

            As Mr Fenn has said, simplify it. As you pointed out with “confidence”… “logic” follows suit. We all have different logical thoughts. We each can look at a painting and see different things. Some see positives and some see negatives and some see the whole. No pun intended!

            That’s what he is counting on. IMO

      • Hey Goofy,
        The quote you are referring to, does not involve this particular theory. Assuming the alleged locations are presently non- physical to travel, none of the above apply. I would say that the poem is straight forward, but on paper.

        I believe there is a possibility that the reader is guided to an area, not needed to be traveled or can even be traveled… if correct, that would be a kick in itself…

        The blaze is yet to be a physical place, for the reason it is built into the poem. IMO the poem holds the answer[s] to what the blaze looks like, but only after the reader follows the design and constructs the blaze to lead them to the location of the chest. The only physical terrain to be navigated is the hike to the spot the chest lays in wait, after that construction is done. A good map.

        I understand that some may say this is against “Fenn’s Law” to get folks out searching. But in reality the poem has done just that… IMO, because the poem design makes the reader believe that all the places are capable of travel. This theory is more about [ IMO] HOW to read the poem then just following it.

        Think of it more as an old Indian story, told and passed on from generation to generation.

        Hope that helps to clarify. No cyphers, acre feet, cubic inches, codes etc. Just seeing the poem for more than just a poem.

        • Seeker, I think I understand what you are saying. At one time there was considerable discussion about the old map of New Mexico Fenn uses. I’ve compiled a collection of old maps (old trail maps, survey maps, Lewis & Clark maps, Spanish explorer maps, etc.) along that line of thinking.

          So the clues are literal if using the correct map, or combination of maps. I haven’t heard anything to put a kink in that theory except one of Fenn’s latest comments when he said “most” of the places the clues refer to did exist when he was a kid. So does that mean some, or one, of the places came into being in the past 80 years. Perhaps that place is the meeting of the old and the new and where the treasure is.

          I’ve been looking at this for a couple years but haven’t found anything solid…..yet. I’ve traveled many of the old trails over the years just to explore; it gives a person a real sense of how tough our forefathers (and mothers) were.

          • Goofy,
            I can’t truly comment on Fenns statement as to my theory… What i can say is that, the places existed but most are different today. Again this is a theory and a theory only becomes a fact if proven so.

            As far as the “map” goes, The poem was design to hold just that. Just as the words in the poem have Multiple meanings, the structure or format of the poem has meaning. Theory is… to find the Blaze, one must Blaze the trail. the answer is not Brown or water, meek or brave. The blaze is the poem. The Hints tell you what to look for.

            IMO, Just saying, food for thought.

    • IMO, I have found that they are all tangible. Even the “blaze” is tangible, as in you can visually or physically find them.

      • Germanguy, You’ve been asked where you are from, correct? Didn’t you say that you are from West Virginia? Just seeing how sharp my memory is without searching to see if I’m correct.

      • I agree with germanguy; those that (IMO) we’ve found are tangible; we expect the rest to also be tangible.

  112. Thanks so much Chris, Dal and Raven!

    That’s why I love this blog – great feedback, interaction and stories.

    IMO – although a fascinating idea, I don’t think there is any encryption or secret layer (in the poem), and/or hints outside of the poem/book that reveals the identify of the blaze. The again, the great architect did take several years (off and on) to perfect his poem. However, I do think there may be something in the poem (as well as other hints, etc. from Mr. Fenn), that could help you find it when you’re out looking. The key (other than that one ‘word’), as many have noted, is to get out and look.

    I’ve been fortunate to make a handful of trips and have had that ‘confidence’ each time. Seems to be growing too. I may not have the confidence to throw a 168 MPG fastball yet, but who knows 😉

    Now let’s get out there and find that blaze!

  113. TJ, Luke and Camera Girl went looking in the Jemez for the chest last year and put together a video of their trip. Many of you have seen this. Some have not. This is for the new folks who have not seen the search by the Urban Treasure Hunter-

    • Looks like wherewarmwayershalt.com is shut down at this moment. I wonder why.

  114. A thought comes to mind as I read the exchange earlier about whether the poem is describing a physical place or whether it is a metaphor. I personally am acting on the belief that the poem is describing a place or more accurately, a path to follow that takes you to THE place. However, it is possible that the “blaze” referred to in the poem, is the trail outlined in the poem itself. The look quickly down then would mean look down quickly as you go, cause your going to find it on this path. Not the theory I’m going on but maybe that will spark something for someone else. My blaze comes from the stories in the ttotc and is faintly hinted in tftw. My blaze is also designated on maps by a geographic formation whereas the same spot is derived from the books because of an event. It really bugs me when folks are so cryptic–sorry. I’ll reveal it after I check it out.

    • Raven please email me. My email is posted above, control+F type in my name.

  115. Has anyone considered possible double entendre for go in peace?
    Symbols peace Y, I> go into a piece of pie shape, walk out peacefully, or food ••• peas:)

  116. I think it means two things…You will go in Peace, because you found the million dollar treasure…..I know I would be at Peace! The other is go in Piece, because you will need to carry it out in pieces. because its so heavy! Double entendre!

    • From Jenny’s site:
      “I felt with this beautifully shared answer that it was a perfect time to say I am closing the box on Questions with Forrest. (name change at the request of Forrest).

      I will no longer be taking questions.”

      • That was a statement she made quite some time ago related to her “Questions with Forrest” column. She is still doing posts to “Featured Questions with Fenn” or you can assess them from the recent posts section.

      • germanguy, that is an old post on the “Questions” page as opposed to the “Featured questions with Forrest” page. The most recent posts is July 25th from what I can tell and that was posted several days after the one you cite. Follow the links on the right side of the page under “recent posts” and I think you will see what I mean.

        • Marvin-I guess I should just have said “ditto”! We must have been typing at the same time.

    • The server must be down because I am being redirected to a local search page provided by my net provider. Anyone else having problems going to it?

  117. The website, which I have been to before…Says it’s not there???? Taken down?

      • Still down for me. I doubt it was taken down….sometimes servers just go down either where her page is stored, or a server between where you are and hers. Sometimes I think they go down, because they have met the amount of bandwidth for that hosting package. I’m sure it will be back on.

  118. This is a bit off topic – but I do not know where else to pose this question – do you think that Forrest is hard set on the difference between a canyon and a valley?

    I would assume so, but I have a potential solution (.001% chance of being correct:)) that has the warm waters halt go down more of a valley than a canyon, although I cannot see any labels to clarify the point for me.

    Any thoughts on what constitutes a canyon versus a gorge versus a valley? Would Forrest bind himself to official labels?



    • Mark,
      That is an interesting question…never even thought about the “canyon” needing to be labeled on a map as a canyon. To me. A canyon is a canyon and you know one when you see it. I suppose you could look up the definition of such . If in fact the canyon clue requires an official label on a map then I would think this would really narrow the search.

      Yellowstone canyon
      Rio Grande Gorge
      Black Canyon of the Gunnison
      Royal Gorge

      I think your .001% gaming odds put you right in there with the rest of us…go for it if the clues line up for you in the valley.

  119. can someone point me to where FF said “Start at : Begin it where warm waters halt”

  120. the only one i know of is … you need to know where to start

    Dal has said he overheard F telling searchers something to this effect, and to start at WWH

    If F said that. im not sure how that helps or makes any difference. the poem tells us to begin at WWH, so if F says that, how is he doing anything more than repeating what the poem already says

    What serious adventurers should remember is to not believe anything that is not in my poem or otherwise in my book

    • well…funny to me to say “start at the beginning”. since the beginning of the poem is “As I have gone…” makes me wonder!?
      He didn’t say to start at “begin” Kind of a duality statement that a sly coyote would say. now your quote of FF ..errr his…”What serious adventurers should remember is to not believe anything that is not in my poem or otherwise in my book”. With that in mind….the beginning would be “As I have gone…” just a thought!

      • Hey Tex… There has been conversations about … Begin “it”. Whatever it maybe. You decide.

      • Hey Tex,

        The reason I liked the “plane” approach was that it elegantly addressed “alone in there” and “begin it WWWH”. That is …get in the plane alone with the treasures…and “begin it” by heading down the runway and lifting off into the atmosphere where WWH…..this is also where cold waters begin.

        At one point Mr. Fenn did state that it is very straightforward I believe. What is more straightforward than a runway?

        My earlier solves had nothing to do with this, but my latest attempt at failure is uncanny in matching the clues to maps and GE imagery and also just about every post Mr. Fenn has made in recent weeks. I can find some connection in all of them.

        My solve would work OK without the “plane” I think but just not as elegantly and I would need a more generally accepted WWWH. I will check it out at some point here…just need a little more motivation.

        • Maybe it’s a hint that only one person can go…example it’s on a bike trail or a horse trail or a kayak. One person transportation. He said not a human trail…so maybe it’s a trail just for horses or a trail of water(for fish).

      • Yikes, friends: please do your research / due diligence before posting?
        This specific question was addressed by FF, recently, on miss Kile ‘s site!
        . . . You may not like the answer. 😉 (but IMO it does refute the idea that anyone can be 100% certain he’s said to only ‘start at WWWH’.)

  121. ff has said start the beginning. You are assuming the beginning is the line Begin it WWH. I do not belive it is.

  122. this is what I think and its only my opinion what the first stanza is saying is what you see here is the same thing you will be looking for where the chest is – there fore I think that to find this place you will have to start where warms halt like I said its just my opinion

  123. I believe the first stanza hints around on where to begin which is wwwh. I hope i’m right because i’m locked in on a place and cant find a reason to leave it behind and move on.

  124. Would you like to win a 1000 bucks answer the questions correctly
    Who was our 1st president
    who was our 16th president
    who was the 32 president
    what was the 1st answer you gave