906 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…Part Twentyseven

  1. oh nice, this is something that has been on my mind for a while. Nice to see a post regarding this very relevant topic….. lol

    just glad to b e one of the first to comment.

    leaving soon and i got my nine. ohh wee they so good. cant wait

    i dont plan to get lucky, just plan to find it or not…. i think i find it tho

    hmm… a hint hmmm…. have you been brave?? have you? owhh wheee!!! 🙂

    • Looking forward to hearing about your search Navyigator, if you feel you can share it. You seem very excited! 🙂 When are you going?

        • You seem confident Navyigator. Safe travels to your location! Looking forward to hearing your search story.

          • Thank You 23, this is looking like this chase attempt will be a lot of fun.

            Can’t say when I am going…

            Can’t say I will reveal my solve if I don’t find it. This solve is to good to give up on easily. And I know if I did reveal it, there would be droves going to this spot to let me know I overlooked the trove.

            Can’t say I will disappear like Pirate of Gold.

            Can’t say I will reveal if I find. Just really wanna go in peace. Maybe in my own way.

            Can say I will leave a little behind for second place. It would be a shame to see this great thing completely end. Plus this will allow me some time to not feel guilty for not revealing the solve while people are still searching. Until I give back the bracelet of course in much appreciation to the man who brought so much good to this life.

            Can say I will do some fishing and I can’t wait for that treasure, the fish will be “my trove”.

  2. Chris Yates,

    Saw your last post regarding your excitement and I share in your excitement. Can you make sense out of this statement by Mr. Fenn?

    “If you figure out the clues in the poem they will take you right straight to the treasure.”

    I believe this can build your confidence, but more so if you see that if you figure out the clues in the poem they will also take you “left straight” to the treasure…best not to get “cold” prematurely though.

    Are you with me?

    • The solution I came up with takes me straight to a “spot”. However, the spot is still fairly large, definitely not within 12′. Nonetheless, my confidence is soaring. So much so my 3 boys and I loaded up and drove 12 hours to NM. Depending on how you count clues, I either have 8 or 9 unforced & very simple, yet solid, clues. They also follow logically one right after the other which keeps adding to my confidence as each addition clue just reinforces you are on the right track.

      We are doing some camping and fishing first, but Monday morning we will see if my two years of tarrying will pay off. Regardless or gold, our road trip has been awesome so far.


      • Good luck clinger

        I’m headed to colorado at this moment 10 more hours lol
        Have fun 🙂

    • MD, It was my note to Chris…but glad to know you are with me. Just curious to know if Chris follows my trail…maybe we are thinking similarly..maybe not..hard to say, but hopefully he will respond.

    • soon …. soon

      btw, you know that photo with Forrest and Donnie holding a fish they caught at grayling creek?

      thats a nice photo

      i like that photo ….

  3. Anyone heard of the upcoming series Dig? Seems to be a Fenner approved theme.

    Dig is set and will shoot in Jerusalem as well as other international locations. The series follows FBI detective Peter Connelly (Isaacs) who becomes a murder suspect after trying to track down a religious artifact that could trigger an event that would change the course of history. Heche will play Peter’s boss and only friend, Lynn, the head of the Jerusalem FBI office. Though she is tough and not afraid of anyone on her team – including Peter, her occasional lover – she has a sense of humor and soft side.

    The event series will premiere on USA Network in late 2014.

  4. Stay on topic ,,,, stay on topic… 😉

    9 clues are the nine sentences. That is all.

    • This is a summary of some my posts from the last several days; they do seem to get scattered about. I’ve also added a few more thoughts.

      The poem is all you need to solve TTOTC, but there are numerous helpful hints in the books and blogs.

      (The most in-your face clue is here:


      The clues taken in order bring you along a very specific path. WWWH is indeed the starting point. It corresponds to Glenwood Springs, CO.

      The methods required to extract the nine clues from the poem are based primarily on those seen in British-style cryptic puzzles. Examples include the use of anagrams, homonyms, and gathering the first/last letters in various series of words or sentences. The key technique is taking groups of letters from the ends of nearby words and reassembling them. The designer of TTOTC provided one clear hint along these lines: hiding the name Eric Sloane and his real name, Everard Hinrichs, in the first stanza. Once again, Fenn never ruled out such an approach, explicitly or implicitly.

      When the list of clues is completed they provide some very clear internal confirmers that they are correct. Specifically, taking the first letter of each of nine clues yields two very meaningful words. The last four letters separately have a specific meaning, as do the last two letters taken separately. When solved, the poem as a whole has a remarkable, and beautiful, internal coherence.

      The first four clues bring you to a general area (a few thousand square yards, perhaps). The next four clues represent a local “site map” to then bring you to the exact spot the treasure is hidden. The last clue is very special and will be the subject of a separate post, but I will refer to it for now as “the end of the rainbow.”

      So far I have described how I derived:

      1. (G)lenwood Springs, CO
      2. (R)oute 6
      8. (O)wl nook
      9. (end of the rainbow for now)

      I am proceeding in a stepwise way so that some of you might have a chance to enjoy solving parts of the puzzle on your own before the full solve is finally revealed. My plan is to complete the site map, then spend some time on the last clue, which is very unique (it identifies the blaze), and then finally clues 3 and 4.

      Today I’m describing the derivation of one of the shorter clues, number 6.

      By the way, all of the site map clues are buried in stanza 4. This is the stanza with all of the letters of the alphabet except X, and X marks the spot!

      You take the NT from the end of SCANT, the WI from WITH, and the EST from CHEST to get TWIST NE. Note that the letters for TWIST are already in proper order. As I have posted earlier, there is a twin for each clue located elsewhere in the puzzle. In this case it is in the first line: GONE >>> GO NE.

      so we are now at:

      1. (G)lenwood Springs, CO
      2. (R)oute 6
      6. (T)wist NE
      8. (O)wl nook
      9. (end of the rainbow for now)

      I’ll do clue 7 next. If you want to work on your own, both “marvel gaze” and “quest to cease” are needed for clue 5, which is the longest clue. For starters, you might ask your self what “quest to cease” sounds a lot like.

      • Eliza you are so gifted thank goodness your willing to teach us new skills.I just wish you were around one year ago when I started.l might have the chest by now. Ok check this out its a real clue maybe; what do you think.– Just take the chest (stand)and go in peace.– Do I get a standing ovation or is it just aberration… 🙂

        • An aberration I’m afraid. But, at the risk of giving too much away, at some point we will all appreciate two standing Os.

      • Eliza, How do you reconcile your “code” breaking with Scrapebook 62? My concern about finding hidden words is illustrated by the fact that if you look at the first stanza alone the names of my entire family, living and dead, can be found there. Is it possible that you have picked a point and you are looking for anything that helps to confirm that spot and ignoring anything that may challenge your conclusion? Just curious……

        • Exactly Raven,
          Seems you and I are having the same thoughts again.
          I’ve found it interesting that folks believe F when he said he hid a treasure but they won’t believe anything else he tells them. However, I have since realized that it is actually to my advantage to have these people off on a wild goose chase (IMO) while I pursue a more sober thought process.

        • Raven-

          That is a perfectly reasonable question, and I will answer as best I can.

          In the first place, I would be willing to bet that Forrest now regrets his wording in Scrapbook 62, because it can be interpreted as ruling out any kind of wordplay. Our goal is to uncover a rigid set of directions that takes you directly to a single location. You simply can’t get that from reading the poem and using vague intuition regarding places you have seen. The best evidence that this is the right approach will be the confirmers (coming soon)

          Secondly, you are touching upon the essential artistry of the poem. The letter groupings used are from words that are near each other, and the letters often come in clusters. If you could randomly select individual letters any distance apart, you are correct- with enough letters you can anagram anything. On the other hand, if the clues could be generated too easily, the poem would have been solved too quickly. The designer of the puzzle had to calibrate the balance between too hard and too easy with incredible care. I believe that this person was successful.

          • Eliza-
            You said:
            “Our goal is to uncover a rigid set of directions that takes you directly to a single location. You simply can’t get that from reading the poem and using vague intuition regarding places you have seen.”

            I think that if you have figured out where WWWH is located all the other directions can be followed like a map. The most difficult part is figuring out what Forrest means when he says Begin it where warm waters halt.

            After that…it’s not a piece of cake either but it gets you outdoors and looking. This follows with Forrest’s overarching purpose…to get folks off their couch and into the mountains…

            With your wordplay system it appears that you could figure it all out with your laptop and that just doesn’t seem to meet Forrest’s grander intentions…

          • Dal,

            Are you having problems understanding “Begin it”? Or with “where warm waters halt”?

          • I was just curious about the way you worded your comment. I’m glad the whole line makes sense to you. Good Luck.

          • Dal said,

            With your wordplay system it appears that you could figure it all out with your laptop and that just doesn’t seem to meet Forrest’s grander intentions…

            The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts

          • “Our goal is to uncover a rigid set of directions that takes you directly to a single location. You simply can’t get that from reading the poem…”

            I believe that IS exactly what the poem simply does, from a direct reading of the poem.

          • my solve uncovered a rigid set of directions that take you to a single location.

        • I drew in the two blue lines. The curved lines of magnetic deviation are deliberate distractors. The lines are drawn from the precise midpoints of the relevant text. There are 23 characters, including blanks, in the phrase “The Thrill of the Chase.” The o is the midpoint. The horizontal line is at the midpoint of the six stanzas of the poem.

      • Interesting solve Eliza – hope it works for you. How do you know the clues “are based primarily on those seen in British-style cryptic puzzles”? From Forrest remarks, if your method is described as a cypher, I would guess he would probably say you are over-thinking. As he has said: “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f”

      • Eliza, your method seems to be a very popular way of deciphering the poem. Although I don’t understand what you are doing I find it really interesting and imaginative. As others have asked, how do you reconcile your method to what Fenn stated in Scrapbook 62? Just wondering.

        Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f

        • Dear CJinCA and Goofy Old Guy-

          See my response to Raven above. In Scrapbook 62 Fenn was indeed hinting to ditch the curved lines and magnetic variation grids on the TFTW map, but by including the words “codes, riddles, and ciphers” he inadvertently threw out the baby with the bath water. For what it’s worth, the technique at use here is very simple, it’s just very well hidden in plain sight. If you’ve done enough British-style puzzles, you can smell one a mile away. Trust me- this is one.

          What a good ol’ boy (in the positive sense of course) like Forrest Fenn was doing getting mixed up with such a highbrow clue style is a whole other story.

          • Eliza, thanks for explaining why this is a popular way of solving the poem. It makes sense now why there are so many……I wouldn’t know, this is the only treasure hunt I’ve been involved with.

            So you are basically discounting what he said……I cut him a little slack when he is speaking in public answering questions off the cuff. I give his written statements much more weight; he is a professional writer and has time to compile and think about what he is saying. He’s been called to task a few times on what he has written; I was involved in what I call the “great useless clue debacle”. I would think he is more careful about what he writes these days……..But maybe not.

      • In order for your little blue line theory to be true somebody at Benchmark would have to be in on the whole deal with FF.

      • Clue 7, like all of the four “site map” clues, is contained in Stanza 4. It employs a homophone (words that sound the same but may be spelled differently).

        Tarry = Terry. Terry is cloth.

        “Azure” (lines 1 and 2) and “blue” (line 3) are not hard to find.

        We wind up with Azure cloth.

        This may raise some eyebrows because a piece of cloth in the outside world may only last a few years before it deteriorates, but that is the clue.

        We now have:

        1. (G)lenwood Springs, CO
        2. (R)oute 6
        6. (T)wist NE
        7. (A)zure cloth
        8. (O)wl nook
        9. (end of the rainbow for now)

        For the first time, you should be getting a sense of the importance of the initial letters, but don’t head out to Taos quite yet. The treasure was not hidden there.

        It was hidden here:


        Coming next, clue 5, the first clue of the site map.

        • Eliza –

          As a rainbow has a beginning and an end – where is the start of your rainbow? Perhaps you think it is a circle – which indeed it is and not where it simply hits the ground. Just wanted to know your thoughts on this. Thanks.

          • I’ll be writing a fair amount about the end of Forrest’s rainbow when I get to the 9th clue, but for now, notice that if you take the start (R) and the end (NBOW) if rainbow, you get the letters for BROWN.

      • Eliza.
        I have performed that test myself. Anyway, I LOVE your approach, and I am convinced that the method needed to solve the poem is along the lines you follow. BUT—
        I am having a VERY hard time following your solve. Of course, I’m sure you don’t care about my problems with your solve. But I would certainly like to wrap my head around your ideas and follow your line of reasoning. We are all aware that the letters J, Q, B,C,K,P,V and Z are missing from some Stanzas, (x from all of them)…but I struggle with all of the leftover letters/words you leave behind…(unless I misunderstand your solve completely.)
        If you are willing to expose a bit more of your thought process…I will help with ANYTHING I have to offer…which may not be much. Let me know.

        • In recent days I have proposed that the nine clues can be extracted from the poem using a form of wordplay close in style to British cryptic crossword clues, but with one totally new wrinkle: pinching off the ends (either one) of nearby words and reassembling them into meaningful phrases. All nine clues can be derived from the poem alone, and the nine clues are all that is needed to find the treasure. Fortunately, all nine clues have a second “twin” derivation located somewhere in the poem for reassurance. The first four clues lead to an area a few thousand square yards in size. The second four clues provide a site map for going directly to the treasure. All four site map clues are derived from Stanza 4.

          This post describes the derivation of the fifth clue, which is the first site map clue. The last clue is very special; I will be describing it in the next day or so. For obvious reasons I will give the solutions to clues 3 and 4 last.

          I have also suggested that there are additional clues in the books that are helpful, but not mandatory. The best example is the provision of coordinates for the treasure. First, in a rough way, we are given 107W, 40N (see earlier posts), and with higher resolution, here:


          Finally, I described how the first letters of the nine clues yield two different, but meaningful pairs of words, how the last four first letters yielded a meaningful word, and that the last two letters are also of obvious significance once all nine clues are revealed. In this way the correctness of the clues is confirmed.

          To review, I have so far posted solutions to the following clues:

          Clues 1 and 2:

          WWWH is Glenwood Springs, CO, which is the location of the largest hot mineral springs pool on the planet. The first four letters of Glenwood are hidden in two places in the poem. Consider the two words “canyon down.” As I have suggested before, Forrest’s clue style borrows from the kind of cryptic puzzles published in the London Times, and later in the New Yorker and The Atlantic Monthly in the United States, where they were popularized by Stephen Sondhiem. “Down” is an instruction to take a smaller version of something. A glen is a small canyon. Secondly, in the first line of stanza six, if you rearrange the letters of “listen g..” you get “its glen.” You append glen to wood and voila. Yes it’s hard, but it had to be, particularly because the first two clues are the hardest. Successfully identifying HOB provides some reassuring confirmation. In the last line of stanza two we see two capital letters, P and B. Pb is the symbol for lead. “ville” means home. HOB is Leadville, CO, once the home of Molly Brown. It is not far, but too far to walk to the intersection of the crosshairs (about 80 miles). If you drive from Leadville to Glenwood Springs, you start out on Route 24 and finish up on Route 6, which match up nicely with the number of lines and stanza in the poem.

          Clue 6:

          You take the NT from the end of SCANT, the WI from WITH, and the EST from CHEST to get TWIST NE. Note that the letters for TWIST are already in proper order. As I have posted earlier, there is a twin for each clue located elsewhere in the puzzle. In this case it is in the first line: GONE >>> GO NE.

          Clue 7:
          Like all of the four “site map” clues, is contained in Stanza 4. It employs a homophone (words that sound the same but may be spelled differently).
          Tarry = Terry. Terry is cloth.
          “Azure” (lines 1 and 2) and “blue” (line 3) are not hard to find.
          We wind up with Azure cloth.
          This may raise some eyebrows because a piece of cloth in the outside world may only last a few years before it deteriorates, but that is the clue.

          Clue 8:

          From the second line of stanza 4, take “Look” and “own” from “down” and you get “Owl nook.” You can get “nest” from the “n” in “down” and the “est” from “quest.”

          So on to Clue 5.

          This is a compound clue with two components.

          The clue reads: East ten paces on gravel maze.”

          This is also derivable in two different ways. “Quest to cease” is a near homonym for “west to east,” and “wise” starts with W and ends with E. “…st and go in peace” anagrams to “and I go ten paces” The only letter missing from this stanza is an X, and X = 10. Finally, …st and go in pe…. Anagrams to “and go in step.” Adding the X, and reordering yields “Step 10 and go in.”

          “Marvel gaze” anagrams to gravel maze, which is a little confusing, because “maze” has a particular connotation. Fortunately, there is a separate confirmer elsewhere: “Th..ere’ll be no pa..ddle up yo..ur creek.”

          TH + PA + YO +CR + K >>> ROCKY PATH. “Rocky path” turns out to be a very accurate description of the actual place.

          Our updated roster of first letters is now:

          (1) G
          (2) R
          (3) …
          (4) …
          (5) E
          (6) T
          (7) A
          (8) O
          (9) …

          Only three more clues to go!

          • Eliza,
            You have put some very good thoughts forward on this puzzle and there are some very interesting concepts put forward as well.

            My problem with any solution when I analyze it is that I have learned to use one simple rule – if any solution is to be “the one” it can’t make the majority groan. Everyone will have to agree with it, otherwise 15 years of planning will have gone to waste and I just don’t think Mr. Fenn wants to be remembered for creating an impossibly complex puzzle.

            So the concern I have is your wonderful solution is that it is rather complex and there are a lot of words that are being played with to come up with the answer.

            Do you think if we gave this to a child that they would understand it?
            The Wolf

          • Wolf-

            I sincerely appreciate your thoughtful comments.

            In the first place, I believe this poem was crafted by an artist of the highest order. Consequently, he might not agree with your hypothesis that the likelihood of a particular solve being correct should be related to its popularity.

            Regarding simplicity versus complexity, remember that this poem was designed with the idea that it might remain unsolved for centuries. So in one context, it was never going to be “simple.” On the other hand, the basic method for creating clues, namely pinching the ends off of words which are near to each other and sticking them together, is certainly a concept within the reach of an 8 year old. The challenge is finding the right combinations. If you are alluding to the complexity of my explanation, I apologize for my bloated prose style, but it is what it is.

            Wolf, bear with me for a few more days. When you see how I fit the whole thing together, you might be more inclined to buy into it.

          • Eliza,
            It makes sense now. You have this already figured out and you are just feeding us bits and pieces thus it won’t make sense until you are finished.

            My point about popularity of the solution has more to do with something that stares you in the face but is not obvious until it is revealed, then it makes total sense and everyone has that “ah-ha” feeling.

            For example there may be many words in the poem that are naturally interpreted to mean one thing and when you apply the “hear me now and listen good” play on words, the hidden meaning would make total sense to the the masses when it is linked to the true solution.

            Thus the puzzle is very difficult (never to be solved in the literal sense) yet is very obvious when interpreted in the play on words sense.

            “One horse said to another: your pace is familiar but I don’t remember the mane”

            The Wolf

          • The ninth clue, the last, is hidden in the last stanza.

            “You are brave in wood” becomes U R BRAVE IN WOOD which anagrams to OUR WOVEN BRAID. This is confirmed by connecting a near homonym for “hear” and “brave” yielding “brave hair.” Native Americans traditionally braid their hair. The first letters of the three words of the clue anagram to BOW, which, of course, are the last three letters of RAINBOW.

            In the book, the last sentence before the poem is:

            “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure:”

            So we quite literally come to “the end of my rainBOW” with the last clue.

            For now I will leave to your imagination what was to be discovered in the owl nook.

            When we add this to our running roster of clues we now have:

            1) G
            (2) R
            (3) …
            (4) …
            (5) E
            (6) T
            (7) A
            (8) O
            (9) O

            the last four letters are T A O O. The two Os can be reasonably replaced with OS, yielding TAOS, a place very special to Forrest as he made clear in the book and in his comments about Nicolai Fechin. The two Os correspond to the two Omegas of the colophon, confirming that we have truly reached the very end of the puzzle, and also represent owl’s eyes.

            A few last words about the blaze. In the book, Forrest describes Googling the location of his father’s grave, which is, of course, ridiculous and never happened. This sentence is clearly a (supplementary) clue, and contains the numbers 4 and 23. W is the 23d letter of the alphabet. It is composed of 4 diagonal lines. If you go back to the poem and start with the final d, swing diagonally up to the first stanza to pick up the first letters I and A, and then move across the first line to get your GONe ALone, you get DIAGONAL.

            The blaze is a W carved into wood.

            It is also the very end of RAINBOW.

            Finally, if you look at how Forrest answered the question “Is the blaze one single object?” he answered “In a word-Yes.” The W is indeed in the word “word.”

            I have described how the last three letters of RAINBOW as well as the very last letter, W, bear on the puzzle, but the last two, OW, do as well, and relate to the spirit of the puzzle. In October,1938, Orson Welles executed the most famous hoax in the history of the United States with his War of the Worlds radio broadcast. Less than a year later, the movie version of the Wizard of Oz (one of Forrest’s nicknames) came out. You might think back to this movie, the character of Professor Marvel, and the concept of benevolent guile.

            That’s it for now.

            All that’s left is the 3rd and 4th clues, which will complete the treasure map and provide the last two initial letters. If you look at the 7 we have so far you might guess what they will be.



    • Jeb, I have serious doubt whether one could ever come up with clues that would last indefinitely especially when they are tied to geographic locations. Just look how the west Yellowstone area has changed in the last 150 years (dam creating one lake and an earthquake creating another). Even the polarity of the earths magnetic fields are likely to change sometime, maybe sooner, maybe later as they have done several times in the past. That thought conjures up the thought that maybe Forrest was contemplating the polarity shift when he wrote the poem making the whole “north of Sante fe” not so clear. Hmmm… I’ve also wondered if the Eliot quote touched on this, –the kind of question I loved to contemplate as a kid as I laid in the grass studying the clouds and munching on wild onions. And I still do….

      • @Raven – as a young girl I too loved digging wild onions and watching the clouds sail the blue yonder above a beautiful meadow. Sweet memories are fragrant for a lifetime:) blessings to you.

      • Hi, Raven. Knowing that geography changes very quickly, I kind of ruled out that Forrest might put the treasure smack dab where a river runs through it. I’ve had to re-think things through for the last little while. Forrest is capable (and willing, I’m sure) to “break the rules”. Why not?

        And speaking of wild onions, I LOVE onions…grilled and raw…but the older I get the more I realize that onions…especially raw…don’t love me in return. I don’t want to go into details…let’s just say that sometimes when I eat raw onions it’s a real BLAST! 🙂

        Doesn’t stop me, though. I’m eating those onions come hell or high water! …I’ll just hope for heaven and low water instead…with my legs crossed…I mean fingers crossed.

  5. The first clue may be in the first stanza. Think about this; New Mexico’s nickname is “The Land Of Enchantment”, Colorado’s is “The Centennial State”, Wyoming’s is “The Equality State” and low and behold Montana is “The Treasure State”.

      • Interesting. This is what I was talking about in my one comment below. You believe that there is a clue before the warm waters? I know you don’t want to give it away, because you say that you have a very well-supported solve, but thanks for giving some ideas about the order of clues 🙂
        Maybe there is a clue about which state it is in? Lol. I don’t know. I couldn’t find anything yet. Except, in the first stanza, if you follow the order of the letters, you can only spell out Montana out of all four states, but I have to admit. . . That is a HUGE stretch.

        • A huge stretch indeed, the choice of state is something we find from our own perceptions of the info.

          I don’t mind giving ref to clue numbers in my o, the solve really is a brain buster and has taken me I’m sure months of hours to arrive at the cords. Hopefully be in the gold soon enough.

          Lava, I think while reading the poem for the 50,000th time the first clue made sense. This is the path to the tc and there is no other way as far as I know. Impinon

          • So do you think that there is a clue before the warm waters, or is there some sort or clue that is found throughout the whole poem?

            Good luck in your search!

  6. I wonder if the chest is in a juniper tree and that tree is the blaze remember he sits by his juniper Fire ( blaze) !!!!! 🙂

  7. You will like this one forest fire. I have a beautiful pair of adiddas shoes black leather and orange bottoms.They have WanderLust written on the tongue and soul…Might as well say ForestFenn.. 🙂

    • Cryptic question germanguy. What do mean by “original”.?You could be referring to his “first” OR his “novel” blaze and if anyone, including yourself, could ascertain the meaning of “blaze” (as used in the poem) with certainty then I doubt you would be asking the question. What’s the point?

      • Understanding his “first” or “novel” blaze, should answer your question. Like I said the other day, “The truth could be right in front of you and still people won’t see it”. I’m not actively out searching anymore, but I don’t mind helping people out. If I don’t have faith in my comments, I won’t share them.

    • No,

      but I remember ‘the blaze”,

      a single word, yes it is, it is simple and fits the construction of the poem quite well. imo

  8. imo

    this can be solved all the way from home before you go

    for those who dont think this matches Fs desire to get people out and search … consider this

    let’s say hypothetically i am right and that when the treasure is found it turns out it was solved by the finder before they searched

    is there anyone who would try to argue at that point that this Chase didn’t get people out and searching? see my point? F was able to do both

    • Chris-
      True, but not his intention. His intention was to get folks outside not provide a couch game….and therefore not likely that he planned it to be wordplay…even more evidence of that position in the hints he has given us time and time again…
      You certainly have a constitutional and intellectual right to pursue this any way you want…and I am not standing in your way..in fact, let me help turn the light on so you can see the double o’s easier…
      I keep voicing another opinion so that new folks understand that there is more than one way to approach the solution to the poem..
      That, in my opinion it is unlikely Forrest wanted folks to research “puzzle types” more than mountainous locations. He made this for the commons…

      • Chris is exactly right. Forrest did indeed end up having it both ways. Even if the poem had been solved in detail before a searcher left their house, it was still necessary for them to physically execute the directions.

    • CY, I have only searched on my cpu but will make my first and only search soon. I wouldn’t go without having a direct spot to go to. It doesn’t seem there is any other way to get the tc.

    • I agree with you Chris. I don’t believe Forrest intended for people to carry the poem out in the field and start solving it there. True, the poem can be solved with a good Map, such as the USGS mapper, which allows one to display layers revealing characteristics of their proposed search area.

    • I agree with you Chris. Even if the clues are worked out ahead of time, searchers still have to get out and at the very least go to their spot and do a little actual searching on the ground. As Forrest said, the treasure is not just out there for someone to stumble over. It’s not in close proximity to a human trail so you will have to either follow some other kind of trail or hoof it across a field or into the woods or follow a stream/river or ??? Look at all the searchers who have gone out looking and having adventures with their armchair solves. You have to have some kind of a solution before you go wandering out and I still belief Forrest when he says that he is a simple man and that searchers should not over complicate it . Even if the treasure is not found, Forrest has been successful in getting people out of the house and into the mountains, no matter what their method is. 🙂

  9. The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental.

    The person who finds the treasure will be the one who solved the clues in my poem and walked to it. No one will happen onto it.

    I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand , but sure for the one who did.

    when i read these statements, i only get one general meaning out of it. is there another way to read this? either some people get a different meaning out of it than me, or its like he never said these things

      • The longer I live, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life. Attitude, to me, is more important than facts. It is more important than the past, the education, the money, than circumstances, than failure, than successes, than what other people think or say or do. It is more important than appearance, giftedness or skill. It will make or break a company… a church… a home. The remarkable thing is we have a choice everyday regarding the attitude we will embrace for that day. We cannot change our past… we cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way. We cannot change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play on the one string we have, and that is our attitude. I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it. We are in charge of our Attitudes.

        • germanguy, I enjoyed and understood your comment. For me, a special day has always been being able to bring a smile to someone who’s attitude is going in the wrong direction.

          Being a positive person can be contagious, I hope a positive person is around when I have a not so good day. What goes around usually comes around.

        • That’s totally true, Germanguy. Sometimes it takes someone with a positive attitude to remind those who don’t (temporarily) that the Sun is still shining on the other side of those storm clouds that seem to be overwhelmeng. The Sun will come out. I bet my bottom dollar.

          Germanguy, you might recognize this song, “Stille meine Wille, dein Jesus hilft siegen”…and translated into English as follows:


    • Chris,
      I think both you and Dal have great points. For myself, I think it’s actually both ways… My explanation is this, The way the poem was written almost looks as it could start anywhere or be many different areas [ for me this is a crap-shoot method] . Even now some have got some of the clues correct and with boots on the ground, the trove not yet discovered [ at least that we know ]. This leads me to believe that the poem should/must be solved or solvable ahead of time.

      But once the solution is know to the searcher, he/she will still need to maneuver what I believe to be the final search. I don’t believe the Blaze is a single entity, but [ for lack of a better example ] more like a path to where one needs to take. I think now, that the poem is designed to be used as a map but not as directions, as much as instruction.

      IMO, yes, the poem can be solved prior [ and should be ] and yes, the only way to find the chest is boots on the ground but needing the information place in the full poem’s meanings and structure. One must build the blaze so to speak…which I don’t think can be down properly sitting at a computer or looking at travel map. The searcher will walk with confidence because they will have the correct map to follow…

      Understanding the poem leads the reader to the design of the blaze if followed precisely.

      My opinion anyways.

  10. @German guy, thank you! Attitude makes or breaks the person. Correct perspective means living GRATITUDE for both good and bad circumstances. Every breath is a gift. Every smile a gift to the treasured people in your life 🙂
    Just stopping by Dals blog to say hello and there is life outside of the chase!!

  11. I’m going to have to come down on the side of Dal’s argument and here is why. Fenn is basically an outdoors person and has been his whole life. If you know the outdoor things he knows then you might be able to sit at home and match clues to geography. If you don’t (and this probably applies to a large portion of searchers IMO) then you need to get off the couch and learn them…outdoors. I suspect that the clues were constructed in that fashion, and that’s why the redneck, who doesn’t own a computer, still stands a chance of finding it.

      • “At the beginning.” – ff

        Well I’m taking Forrest at his word and concentrating on WWWH. I’m testing my theory next week…in the woods.

        • And how did you come up with your theory – in the field, with your knowledge of the outdoors, or by looking at maps of where you think WWWH?

          • CJ,
            Basically it’s a combination. I try to understand who Forrest is on the most basic level, listen carefully to what he says (believing what he says in not the correct approach) try to think like him using my outdoor experiences, research and use topo maps to test my ideas.

            I think that’s what he’s told to do, no?

          • Well no, not exactly. He said to read the poem over and over, read the book over and over, and think and analyze. He said all you need for research is TTOTC, poem and a good map. Personally, I read and listen to everything he has to say and find hints in just about all of it. I am a bit confused by what you wrote though. On the one hand you said “believing what he says in (sic) not the correct approach” but then ended by saying ” I think that’s what he’s told [us] to do, no?” I believe most of what Forrest says, unless it sounds like one of his “aberrations”. I’ll never know what he knows about the outdoors or archeology and I don’t think he expects all of us searchers to have this knowledge. That would make the solution impossible for the majority and I believe he wanted everyone to have a fair chance at solving the poem. He’s spoken before about “leveling the playing field” so I don’t think we have to have detailed knowledge of the outdoors but, he’s said the treasure is in a spot that is special to him so I do think it helps to learn as much as we can about him personally. Anyway, good luck with your search! I think most of us would love to have the puzzle solved by someone soon so we all can get on with our lives! 🙂

          • CJ,
            Sorry about the awkward phasing/typing…it made my response confusing.

            What I was trying to say is the F has given us a lot of feedback on approaches that won’t work (e.g. the often quoted scrapbook 62) and yet people are still trying to coax self-fulfilling words out of the poem and draw blue lines on the map using arbitrary systems. I’m surprised people don’t listen to this feedback. That’s all.

            The only way Forrest can level the playing field is by providing everyone with the same starting clue set. He has no control over anyone’s knowledge base, but by encouraging everybody to get out in the woods I think he is hinting that this will be helpful. Treasure hunting on-the-job-training, if you will.

            It was debated a while back about how could a “redneck” hope to compete since this puzzle is “so complex”. I’m just speculating that if the key knowledge is street smarts, and/or a good understanding of the outdoors then it’s attainable by anyone….college and technology not required (perhaps).

          • I totally agree Marvin. Some of the solutions people come up with, despite what Forrest has stated about methods that will not help with the search, really puzzle me. And I agree that searchers need to get out and actually spend time in the mountains to find out that what we see on GE and/or topo maps is very different from reality. Many people have related that when they arrived at the spot they thought the treasure was hidden, they were amazed at the terrain and realized that an 80 year old would not have been able to cross that stream or river, hike that trail over rough terrain or repel down a cliff with 40+ pounds of treasure! Good luck with your search.

    • Here’s my take: the poem will lead you to the right area. But if you think you will know EXACTLY where to go from the poem you will never find it. Forrest is a man whose idea of a good time is to venture out into the mountains with his buddy without a map, a couple of matches, a candy bar and a love of life. I think the “certainty” he speaks of is actually the kind of bravado or self assurance that one would have to have to undertake that kind of adventure. Its not the kind of certainty that you will find in a AAA map. Try to understand the man, figure out the where and why of his special place, and be willing to go there.

    • Hey Marvin, My comment above wasn’t directed at you as I get the impression you are not in the camp that believes this is basically a word puzzle rather than a treasure “hunt”. One can only hunt from their armchair so far…… Good luck next week! Where ya goin? Just kidding. I hope we hear about your trip–make sure you take a selfie when you find the treasure–I want to see what a marvel gaze really looks like.

  12. Wow, looks like a lot of boasting going on here lately. As a fellow braggart I feel left out…Here’s my boast: If you’re gonna do any more searching do it before this weekend as my new craigslist partner is going out there then to claim the chest. The partner I sent out before him saw the blaze (through binoculars) from 500 feet away (interesting figure, huh?) but was unable to get to it without proper equipment. Good luck!

    • Well bill, I saw the blaze (myself) all of the way from VT with no binoculars. AND, my new partner who I located on Spacebook is coming in on the next shuttle. Just funnin’ man… Good luck to your partner.

    • Hey Mr. Bill,

      Mr. Fenn has stated that the clues if solved correctly will guide you “right straight” to the TC and the searcher can walk right to it so not sure what special equipment is needed other than some boots to battle the cold.

      • You’re right, Windy, he did say that. And it is possible to walk right to it… If approached from the right direction… Basically, if this location is correct, and who knows, maybe it’s not, I have been wrong several times before, then sure you CAN walk right to it providing you know this difficult area very well and know the best way to approach it. My partner was checking out spots the day he went and ran out of time to figure out a way on foot to get there. If this location is correct then you can use a cheat (piece of equipment) to get to it easier. We’ll see. If I’m wrong I’ll post the incorrect solution so you can see what I mean.

        The beauty of Mr. Fenn’s poem and subsequent “clues” like the one you mentioned about special equipment is there are a myriad of ways of interpreting them. Also, he laces all of them with traps, making it easy for us to take them too far and shut off possibilities.

  13. Eliza, I think there is a way to unlock precise directions from the poem without using your method or vague intuition. Not saying I have accomplished that.

  14. All,
    With regard to the question of the “armchair” search versus the “field” search:
    My approach has been to figure out (IMO) a clue, then visit the area where I find another clue (but not TC), then think about the poem and maps for a couple of months, then repeat the (armchair plus field combination) process.

  15. That’s precisely the direction i have taken Geoff. I actually accepted a position in Denver and moved there. I didn’t tell the wife the whole truth of wanting to move here just that it was a wise financial move. I wanted to be closer to my search area due to the fact of it being just too far to walk/drive : ).
    Since we are on the 9 clues thread i will put my 2 cents in on wwwh. I believe it to be a very significant event that affected North America.

  16. Hey everyone! I finally decided to start posting on here :3
    So let’s get back on topic. The nine clues.
    1. Where warm waters halt

    I am convinced that this is the beginning of his clues, mostly because he says that they are given in chronological order. There is always the chance of there being some deep, metaphorical, super-encrypted code built into it, but Forrest said himself, don’t think into it TOO much. He also said that knowledge of ciphers won’t help. . . Although that isn’t saying there is one. He has such a way with words! Haha.

    Does anyone have any other suggestions as to what the first clue could be?

    • As I have gone alone in there. This either means something and is a clue or it is just alluding to what was done in the end and simply hinting about a location involving new and old riches.

      • I am starting to lean toward the idea of a clue in the first stanza, but the only problem is that all of the clues are supposed to be in consecutive order, so that means, if there is a clue, the stanza would have to contain some sort of cipher or something like that. This cipher would probably show a general area so that we can pinpoint where the “warm waters” are. This would fit the consecutive order hint.

        • Lava,

          You are correct in stating the clues are in consecutive order, but don’t overlook the fact that you will probably need to solve the whole poem first and then following it step by step should lead you to the resting spot of the chest. One caution here, don’t jump around in the poem, but solve it first and then follow it step by step. Good Luck to you. 🙂

    • I feel the need to ask if Forrest says the clues are IN chronological order, or PRESENTED in chronological order, or should be FOLLOWED in chronological order. all of these things can be interpreted differently. If presented in C.O. then clues occur as they occur in real time. If Followed in C.O. then the clues could be in ANY order, and we would have to figure out the chronology of events. If the clues are IN chronological order, then they are presented in the order they were performed.

      • Michael –

        My interpretation of the poem is that it is in layers. So to answer your question – all of the above could be true. The first layer would be simple directions – the second layer would be who or where you are and possibly the history of the place. The third layer would be the guts of the solve – the hard part – which would give you the coordinates.

  17. I believe the first clue is As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold I can keep my secret where and hint of riches new and old. I believe he is telling us that the letter I is important in the solve.

    • Michaeld,
      if I may make a suggestion. Not that the “letter” I is not important… But the “word” I , maybe more important.

      I have asked this question before { on other sites } so I’ll ask here as well, For thought and discussions purpose… Who is I in the poem?

        • “I” is important. “Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead”. “I” in the poem is not Fenn.
          “I” is the other person keeping the secret. The poem is a metaphor and Fenn is writing “As I”.

          Solve the identity of I in the poem and it will lead you to the place WWWH and the trail to the chest.

          It is fun to arrange words in such a way that you have to smile at the end of a sentence.

          Autobiographers always lean toward the subject.

          • Jack,

            I have enjoyed your comments and posts.

            IMO, Correct. I believe Fenn is narrating the poem or at least part of, and the reason, reading the poem can be confusing. Was this done deliberately? I would say yes, but not to mislead as much to make the reader think. [ difficult, but not impossible ]

            The simple definition of I is : knowledge of self. Knowledge itself of who I could represent in the poem.

            We have seen / heard of the misspelling of Knowlege. Who is the missing link and why is it I must go? The ” I ” has more than one meaning and usage, as do all the words and phrases… there is more to a hint / clue than just one answer.

            [ Paraphrasing FF ] ‘ searchers did not understand the significance of where they were… ‘

            Where is not always a place… Food for thought.

          • Seeker, I think you are hitting on an important theme that leads to understanding the poem and the clues. Knowledge of self and our place in the continuum of past present and future.

            It is a theme repeated in TTOTC and the poem. It is the theme that Fenn puts at the beginning of his vignettes on this blog.

            “Many of the objects in my collection are significant in a very small depiction of world history. Most are more interesting than they are important. Nevertheless, it is necessary for me to remember that each piece represents who we once were in a time that used to be, and that I will never be anything more than its temporary custodian.”

            While I am trying not to rely too much on things outside the poem, I find it interesting that he quotes TS Eliot’s Little Gidding when he talks about understanding his poem. Little Gidding has the same theme and the narrator meets a ghost and becomes one with him to reach a new knowledge of himself. Much of the imagery is the same also. Fire and blazes, winter cold, etc. It is intriguing!

        • Bill: IMO, he only uses 1st person part of the time. He also uses second person narrative.

          Also of note: while mostly present tense, he switches from past to present to even future tense.
          Grammar wonks will note the auxiliary verb. 😉

  18. Well if forrest does make it to Montana, and I think he will. He should watch out for the creepy people who are waiting in the woods for him. As said on another blog…..LOL. No really! I worry about him.

  19. Dear Mr. Fenn,

    I recently acquired a new granddaughter and have a grandson on the way. Have you completed the children’s book you are writing? I enjoy your memory stories. I love reading to my grand babies, and I want to read your book to them.

  20. Hi All, armchair thinking, Fenn Feverish from Oz here.

    Like many I haven’t formed a conclusion as to the solve. I’m working through different approaches to the poem but sit in the camp of that the poem is straight forward once working out what the 9 clues are.

    One train of thought- to find WWWH is there something in stanza 1 that can get me to a specific area, not a specific spot like WWWH. Meaning that you still begin at WWWH but it is not the 1st clue. The line ‘And hint of riches new and old’- the word ‘hint’, can it be construed as having more than 1 application here. I have read that Mr Fenn is quite the master of the double entendre.

    Taking the word ‘hint’ in context can be the new and old riches in the chest, or the riches new to the finder and old from having been Mr Fenn’s or of Mr Fenn continuing to give out new hints. It also describes Mr Fenn’s passions and ethos of life. Or is the word hint also saying “hello HINT” almost flagging it. Which brings me to something else Mr Fenn said along the lines (hate paraphrasing) when asked have all the clues/places existed since he was a child and in his reply he used the word most. This of course could refer to another clue.

    This train of thought led me to Quake Lake and Hebgen Dam (not associated with a dam was later given as a hint). There must be other areas that fit with this train of thought.

    This line of thought would make the line ‘And hint of riches new and old’ #1

    I believe this train of thought has been spoken about before but thought it appropriate to raise it again here.


    You may ask why the interest from Oz. Good for the old grey matter plus it’s not trout fishing season here and we having some extreme wild weather in Tas at moment and stuck in doors.

    • I think and its only my opinion that new and old is a hole – before it was and now it is – before and after

  21. Anyone – FF has stated many times that we should only believe the poem & the book. Is that correct? If so, then how can we as searchers reconcile believing anything he says? Perhaps that’s why so many of his statements contradict themselves. For instance – the wwwh issue. Hasn’t FF said begin at the beginning & also begin at wwwh?

    It’s like one of those tests where the first line tells you to read all the way through before starting. Then when you do as instructed, the very last line says to disregard all of the previous questions & just sign your name. If FF said believe only the poem & the book, then verbally or in writing tells us something, does that cancel out the “only”?

    • Yes Becky, but he also stated recently, that he reserves the right to make a mistake (or words to that effect). So, even if the first stanza is a clue of sorts, the word “begin” is akin to the word “start”, so I would suggest that you follow the clues starting with the 2nd stanza and see what you get from there on. If there is relevance to the first stanza, I’m sure it will show up at some point. But as always, this is just my humble opinion for what it’s worth.

    • the poem says to begin at WWH, so WWH is by definition the beginning

      if Forrest says to start at the begininning, then what is the contradiction

      remember what Forrest said about searchers who “guess”

      guessing isnt going to find you the treasure

      • The poem does say BEGIN IT – begin what – THE TREK.

        That does NOT mean the poem puzzle begins there.


      • Once you know,what it is then you will know that you begin you chase not at wwwh.

      • All: This particular ‘what does the beginning mean’ / ‘is begin =/= beginning?’ ‘ horse has done been beat, killed, and turned to glue, 🙂 but here goes once more, for the new folks:
        For a fan of writing, and poetry, as FF seems to be, the beginning may logically be the first words he put down on paper. And no, I don’t necessarily mean the line starting with “As I have…” — but IMO, it could be the one before it, that starts with a W…. 😉

        Could also be that the beginning = the question posed in the poem: the rest that follows could be the answer, and logically (unless you’re playing Alex Trebeck’s Jeopardy) the question must be first. …This runs afoul of many people’s interpretation of ‘don’t mess with my poem’, though.

        • When writing, the things that are covered are: who, what, when, where, why and to what extent or degree. When looked at this way you know how to find where to begin in the poem.


          • Sorry I left out how.

            So that would be who, what when, where, how and to what extent or degree.

          • I need to give up typing…. I get ahead of myself by thinking. I left out why of that last comment. Ugh!

        • Jeopardy is one of my life long favs. ask the answer in the form of a question…. who, hwat, Where, why?,…..

          ty Map and jan, you got me thinking more as I have been doing much more this past few weeks, more than normal, phew, that is a lot.

          but yes this WWWH conversation has been beat quite thorough Map.

          It is 4 camps

          1. wwh is the beginning
          2. 1st stanza is
          3. somewhere else in the poem
          4. or a anagram/cipher will tell you

          I’m in #2

    • When I read the poem that I have to apply self discipline. He says he wasn’t playing any games when he wrote the poem, so that said I mentally have to eliminate metaphors and ext. my last couple of solution and philosophical meanings that after couple of scrapbook post I have changed my way of thinking.

      I see a lot of questions whether or not if it’s hidden. On this matter all I can say it’s what you believe in. People believe in god or Jesus and never have proof of their existence and the only evidence is a book written by man. Me personal I do believe it is hidden and I will spend some free time to quest out mid west (Rick ) cause it’s a no lose scenario if you find the treasure chest or not concidering the adventure of being in the wild or sitting at home watching tv

      • “When I wrote that poem, I wasn’t playing any games. It’s straightforward.”

        I agree Will. No sense or logic in complex and strange approaches. Straightforward – not complicated. For me this is begin it WWWH and goes right through to just take the chest and go in peace. Start here in the poem and get your reward for solving the 9 clues.

        • If it was just straight forward and linear – start here, then go here, then find this…. he would have written the instructions in prose. But he didn’t. The clues are in a poem which allows him to use metaphor, wordplay, imagery in a way that is cryptic and takes some effort to interpret. Poetry allows him to hide the clues. As he says, they need “unlocked”. That is why there is not even agreement on identifying the 9 clues. If it was straight forward, would the 9 clues be obvious? It is non-linear rather than linear.

          • I think the poem does give a simple and easy meaning and direction to the chest but the part that makes it complicated is how we define the words. Forrest said he was born 100 years to late and even in his earlier years the (slang) for words mean different then they are now.
            Maybe we should look up the words in the 19 century and then might have our key to the poem.

          • Interesting comparison of prose vs. poetry for your linear vs. non-linear argument. Thank you Jack, that would make a interesting conference topic!

          • 23k – Page 100 of TTOTC, “I certainly can’t identify all of the lines that spun the web that forms the latent beliefs that brought me here, but these are some.”

            IMO the clues tie together like a web rather than a straight path. The web converges to an elegant unified solution that points to the treasure.

        • JCM –

          Sorry, but I respectfully disagree.

          He did say straightforward – but, he never said it is not complicated.

          Indeed, he did say it was difficult. Difficult can also mean complicated. I believe it is not easy.

          It is in order as far as the directions alone – but that will not put you in the exact spot. Only the coordinates will and the way to find them – it is difficult and complicated – which took him 15 yrs to put together.

          • i agree ITCT

            when the word “simple” is used in relation to the chase it really needs to be qualified

            it is impossible that there is a 24 line poem that would lead one precisely to a hidden treasure chest, thousands upon thousands have tried over a 4 year period and failed, and yet somehow it is “simple”


          • It’s simple if you’re the author 😉

            There are dozens/hundreds of well known, public, puzzlehunts & street scrambles/hood hunts. Many book-based, many poem-based, and they’ve (almost) all been proven to be possible. The ECS in Seattle was once solved, with thousands looking, in just 12 lines (4 lines of the poem released each game day, up to ten days, until found). It wasn’t simple to anyone, except for the winner, Greg, (who’s managed to win that event twice) !
            So, I think it can both be simple and difficult: all a matter of perspective. 😉

          • You know, I spent an hour typing up a very logical and argue proof response, but then deleted it. No need trying to convince anyone or prove anything… especially if it levels the playing field when the field doesn’t need to be leveled. 🙂

            I will just say that (IMO) the poem is straightforward (we don’t know the meaning of our own words) in pointing out the clues, well at least the first clue (which most people underestimate the importance of) and maybe the second, but you are absolutely right and I agree 100%, the clues are cryptic and down right difficult to figure out, solve, decipher, and all the other words Forrest has used.

            I think when one makes the whole poem out to be the nine clues then the poem itself is no longer straightforward and the whole thing becomes cryptic and difficult. The straightforward version of the poem says to me stanzas 2,3, and 4 are the nine clues; now what is taking me so long? 🙂

        • I believe you must understand the 1st stanza before you can move forward with confidence to the first clue which is wwwh. The hint in the 1st stanza puts a bullseye on wwwh imo.

  22. Hi All,

    I see the word logic used in various comments and wonder if Mr Fenn has ever used that word in relation to the search? There are 2 general forms of reasoning ie logic, inductive and deductive and one moves from the general to the specific. It is also a structure of which to write or to base an argument but most relevant to my thinking was moving from the general to the specific. Food for thought, maybe and maybe not.


    • It seems logical to me that a deep thinking treasure searcher could use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure. Is someone doing that now and I don’t know it? It’s not what they say on the blogs that may be significant, it’s what they whisper. f

        • Chris (or anyone who can answer)

          Where do you locate all of forests statements so quick?
          Is there a page on the blog where they are listed to compare and contrast them?
          If so, can you post a link please.


          • Quotes for me come from 1.5 years of compiling in my own notes. Reading everything and copying what I think is important, also a lot of listening and transcribing of what f has said.

          • ditto for me on the notes

            also there was a nice collection of information and important Forrest quotes on Shaun W’s site but unfortunately he decided to take it down

          • Danny-boy –

            All you have to do is type Forrest Fenn and the “Word” you are looking for in Google and bingo you have everything that has been said about it.

          • ITCT

            for a lot of Forrest’s statements, and esp the ones people care to find because they see bloggers talking about them, just googling and a keyword usually doesnt work so well

            just to give you the 1st example that comes to my mind, i just quoted below an F quote relating to surprise. google it. it wont come up, you will just see a few comments by people talking about it, but not the statement itself

            you have to learn a few tricks of searching and there will be work required to find it usually. thats why i copy stuff when i can and remember to. i have lots of stuff that i know i wouldnt be able to find online anymore. not that it isnt somewhere, just virtually impossible to find anymore at this point

      • Chris-
        In my opinion that statement is pretty straight forward. I believe he was simply saying that he has not seen a great deal of logical thinking when it comes to determining where to begin (the most important clue). Further, he was saying that perhaps someone is using logic and has determined where this clue is…but if so, they are not talking about it on the blogs. They are keeping it quiet and not boasting (they are whispering) as far as he can tell.

        If I am correct, that means that the solutions that appear on the blog for WWWH are not correct….unless of course he simply missed reading one…

        • Dal –

          I have only seen what I believe to be the correct spot mentioned once on his website in the last three years. I do not frequent other blogs often – so I would not know if it was posted there. I have not seen the person who posted it – continue to post anywhere else.

        • In my opinion, clue number 4 in particular requires a significant amount of logical thinking.

    • Pip,

      Maybe this will help or maybe not. Logic I believe falls in line with the clues are in ” consecutive order” statement.

      Consecutive ; Marked by a logical sequence

      Order ; having a systematic arrangement. elements succeeding in order according to rule.

      Logical thinking may tell you the sequence of the clues are what is in order, but not how they maybe arranged in the poem itself.

      Footnote: those are only part of all the definitions of the words.

  23. Cheers and thank you Chris, will have to ponder that one. Hmmm so which is the important clue that can be deduced by using logic…gone pondering.

    • Pip –

      in your pondering keep in mind that f said “an important clue to the location of the treasure” and not “one of the nine clues that will lead you to the treasure.”

      It is possible that he was referencing one of the nine clues, but knowing him and how he words things, I wouldn’t put my money on it being one of the nine clues.

      • Thank you to all who have replied or furthered the discussion as to- is WWWH the 1st clue or is it where you begin the trek.

        You all have been following the chase longer than I have and I take on board what you have said.

        From what I can gather the majority of you think WWWH is the 1st clue.

        Perhaps just wishful thinking on my part trying to determine a general area from the poem.

        Back to the drawing board of keeping it simple.


        • You have realizepip none of us know right or wrong no one has found the chest so you could be right it just a place to discuss thoughts so keep chiming in

        • FWIW, pip:
          I think clue #1 and possibly even clue 2 could be in stanza 1.
          IMO, the logic here is– why else give such interesting specifics?
          –Gone alone in there (where? Or is this telling us something more important, like a WHEN?)
          –my treasures bold (why bold? Many words rhyme with old (like gold!) that would have worked here… Bold is an interesting vocab choice to specifically make, to my POV )
          –riches new and old. (Old and new riches in his chest, …or old and new things at the site of the chest? There aren’t a whole lot of ‘new’ things in that chest, from what we’ve seen…)

          It seems like a simple question, right? …but FF specifically chose to refuse to answer whether the first clue is WWWH , or if it’s somewhere earlier in the poem. “You guess!” was how he answered.

          • I don’t understand why “As I have gone alone in there”, is so hard to understand. He’s telling us that he was “alone”, when he went in “there”. Granted, “there” could be a myriad of places. It could be the woods or a canyon or any place. The “bold” part is easily defined in any dictionary. To me, it means that because of it’s remoteness, he could always go and never have to worry about being seen. It’s pure and simple. Possibly it could also explain why he can state from time to time that the chest is still there. I wish I could say this is just my opinion, but I can see it no other way. Forrest has already stated that people are making it harder or words to that effect.

          • GermanGuy you wrote: I wish I could say this is just my opinion, but I can see it no other way.

            What is fact here is that is your opinion. Simply because you lack the knowledge or imagination to come up with any other “opinion” doesn’t make it a fact. I can see it no other way.

            The greatest obstacle to discovering the truth is being convinced you already know it.

          • Over-reaching political correctness is chipping away at the fundamental American freedoms of speech and expression. So, am I to give up my rights now to satisfy your rules? And why is it that you have to insult people by making remarks like “Simply because you lack the knowledge or imagination”. I’m not upset with you Goofy. I just feel disappointed. I always looked up to you as being a highly intelligent, professional individual who respected the views of others, whether they were on the same level as you or not. I always considered myself to be a student of human nature and as such treated others as I would want them to treat me. Regardless of their position in life. But I see now that for some, things never change.

            A tree is known by its fruit; a man by his deeds. A good deed is never lost; he who sows courtesy reaps friendship, and he who plants kindness gathers love.

          • to me and its just my opinion – that its like the treasure talking to me – to where its being put in

          • Germanguy, It’s frustrating that you’ve completed ignored my parentheticals and tried to reframe my points in some sort of straw-man argument about “not understanding”.
            IMO, the facts are:
            a. all of us understand quite a bit, and yet (because none of us are showing off pictures of ourselves with the chest 😉 ) all of us don’t understand 9 tiny words/phrases.
            b. FF refuses to confirm nor deny whether WWWH is the first of the 9 clues. I’m not alone in thinking this is interesting and/or a hint in itself.
            c. AIHGAIT is full of multiple meanings, and we’ve all seen several dozen variations, based on all the creative interpretations bloggers alone have provided. (This is to say nothing of the people who lurk or don’t even bother going online). Just as BROWN has about 3 dozen options for what it might mean, so does each sentence! As an investigator, I ask “WHY” a lot.
            ~WHY did he go in alone?
            ~Did he have no choice?
            ~Is there room for only one person?
            ~ Was there a limit to how much weight a certain bridge could take?
            ~ A tiny entrance to shimmy through?
            ~ Only enough air to support one person?
            ~ Was he there afterhours, and that’s not only why he was alone, but also why he calls the going in there “bold”?
            ~ Was he there when no one else would dare be there / Was he trespassing?

            I don’t take any FF word choice as simple. He’s an admitted trickster: even in October’s reading, he admitted that he made deliberate mistakes in the TTOTC book, and no one had yet called him on them. He’s also said “all you need is the poem” and “every word is deliberate”:
            Lots to consider. It’s the opening line: most writers take EXCEPTIONAL care to create just the perfect opening line “It was a dark and stormy night” / “Call me Ishmael” / “If you really want to hear about it, the first thing you’ll probably want to know is where I was born…”, so , no, IMO, there’s lots of other ways to see it, and there’s no reason to presume it’s “pure and simple”.
            d. We know from reading his biographies that he is, in fact, the kind of maverick to cross borders, to bend a law or challenge mores (‘Please Touch, I’m responsible’) , to do interesting stuff on the clock that he’s not supposed to do (eat Frosty’s pie, grab a chopper to waterfalls, etc), etc. So, BOLD stands out as not just a simple way to rhyme to old. For all we know, OLD was chosen semi-randomly because he needed something to rhyme with BOLD because BOLD is perhaps the most important part of the sentence. ! Whoever has the chest can say for sure, but no one else can, right! 🙂
            e. If several people have been within 500′, then -maybe- it’s not somewhere he can go any ol time. I think he did have to worry about being seen: He’s gone to a lot of trouble to NOT tell us when he went, NOT tell us much about how he transported, NOT tell us until just within the last year anything about the trails or trips he took, and NOT tell us much at all about who/when people have been close.
            f. he said some searchers seem to “Overrate the complexity of the search” with riddles, codes, ciphers, formulas, etc. SB 62, I think?

            Happy to keep an open mind and dialogue about various options though!

          • Mapsmith,

            I agree with most of what you’ve said here. That said, I would offer this up as a suggestion: If when you or anyone here is able to match up their clues with every hint or comment that Fenn has ever offered, that will meet Forrest’s definition of “confidence”. But not until then. I say, congratulations and go for it. However, show some integrity and if need be, post a picture of the chest for all to see, even if it must be done anonymously.

            Thanks for you well written comment.

          • @GermanGuy……That’s a new one. Politically Correct is not something I’ve been accused of before. You are certainly entitled to your “opinion”, most of us appreciate those that contribute their thoughts. We do not appreciate those that declare they are correct and everyone else is wrong. You are starting to sound like one of those searchers that think the treasure doesn’t exist because it wasn’t where they thought it should be. They simply cannot be wrong……they can’t see it any other way.

            As far as courtesy goes, I don’t think it very courteous of you to declare you are right and anyone that doesn’t see it your way is wrong. It’s fine to state your opinion and substantiate why you think that way. Then others can agree or disagree and present their case on their way of thinking. Anyone’s idea is as valid as anyone else’s. We’ve been down this road before, you absolutely knew you were correct on your first search and berated anyone that disagreed with you. When you have the chest, then you can school us on the facts.

          • Where have I ever “declare I was correct and everyone else was wrong”? Give a link to that comment. Do the same for where I “berated” people on this blog.

          • Map,
            your second comment in this line might be one of the most well written clarity of thoughts regarding this chase to exist on this blog to date. I enjoyed every word, thank you much.

        • Something I always wonder is that when Forrest says that people have been within 500 feet does that mean they were 100 feet and he is saying they were 500 feet or were they 500 feet max to the chest?

          You guys are vast in knowledge, Is there another meaning to TITLE other than the obivous.

        • Pip are you trading pips? AS I have gone alone in there is the first clue. I know nothing but think I know something but when I know something I’m going to let knownothing know I know something.

  24. Thanks Eliza for bringing a fresh approach to the poem. I hope you continue to post your ideas. I do think the poem has the feel of a British style cryptic puzzle and that may be a way to unlock at least some of the clues.

    Shaun Whitehead, who is British, had posted that he felt the clues were written in the style of crossword clues. Fenn sent him an email telling him he was on the right track in a general sense.

    Speaking of Shaun, he website now has the following message:

    For various reasons, I have decided that it is no longer appropriate for me to encourage you to search for the treasure of Forrest Fenn.

    I hope that you enjoyed the pages of information that were posted here, and that you find your own true treasures.

    Shaun Whitehead, July 2014

    Does anyone know what that’s about?

    • Jack, I was not a follower of Shaun Whitehead but I came upon his site a few days ago and saw that post. I did a little research on him and saw that he has solved quite a few treasure hunts and has either designed his own hunts or assisted in designing a number of hunts in Great Britain. I was very curious about the statement, “For various reasons, I have decided that it is no longer appropriate for me to encourage you to search for the treasure of Forrest Fenn.”. Now why would he decide not to encourage people to search for the treasure? I thought that was a very strong negative statement for him to make about Forrest’s treasure hunt. Was anyone here following Shaun’s site and did he ever make any other comments prior to that last statement that might have lead him to post what he did?

    • Hi, Jack. Yeah. I noticed that, too. “No longer appropriate”? Huh? Very strange. Is he Amish and discovered that the treasure is buried on a nude beach, or what? Shaun seems like a brilliant man…much more brillianter than me.

  25. Shaun no longer believes the “treasures bold” refer to an actual chest of gold, but to our own inner treasures, found during the search for the gold. Many searchers have come to this conclusion….that FF has created something that would eventually end if he actually hid the treasure chest, so he never actually stashed one. I disagree with this line of thought….I think he was smart enough to do both. The chest is in the best hidey spot ever, so the chase will last a long, long time. All IMO.

    • Just saw your post Michael. Did Shaun write that info on his site at one time about believing that Forrest did not really hide a treasure?

    • I agree completely MichaelD. I think you can be within a short distance (apparently greater than 12 feet anyway) and not notice the chest as a casual observer. You will have to search carefully . The hidey spot itself is a doozy.

    • Shaun no longer believes the “treasures bold” refer to an actual chest of gold, but to our own inner treasures, found during the search for the gold. Many searchers have come to this conclusion…

      I asked Shaun and he replied

      “I’ve never stated anything to that effect.”

      • I wonder what his reasons are. He doesn’t seem to be the type to give up because he is frustrated. Since he has experience as both a hunter and clue setter I found his insights useful. That’s why I’d be interested in knowing why he took down his Fenn pages.

        • “I found his insights useful.”

          My guess is Shaun took it down for this very reason… he doesn’t want to give the competition any advantages. I’m certainly not posting anything online that would be to the advantage of anyone else.

  26. This is a rerun and just for fun, but several searchers have puzzled over the appearance of this website:


    If you employ military time and use CST (because the treasure was hidden in that time zone) as a reference point, you wind up at August 15, 2015, at 15:15H. In other words:

    8 15 15 15 15. Converting to their corresponding letters gets you H O O O O.

    This series of letters (1) sounds like an owl and (2) ends with a series of Os.

    Both turn up at the end of the solve, so I suspect that the designer of the poem had a hand in it.

    Finally, if you’re curious about Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, just Google it.

  27. Cj, sounds like shaun got frustrated. Lord knows we all have been. If the solution I am chasing is right, it makes sense why the tc has not been found. Def very difficult but not impossible, I believe it is right where FF left it.

    • Imo my spot is perfect reckon we are searching same spot because I’m pretty sure that the chest is there I searched it once before and got frustrated because the trees blocked my mountain to navigate with and had no gps plus avoiding the bears became a issue

        • Yea got those also last trip I layed down to stretch out got cramps and 5′ away was a rattler stretched out about 6′ long didn’t botherhim figured he was cramping too

  28. “After I hid the treasure I walked back to my car feeling very proud of myself and laughing out loud,” he said. “I asked, ‘Forrest, did you really do that?’

    To me this statement is the proof he actually hid the treasure. He shared his inner dialog with us and that is sacred ground IMO.

    • Eliza where you ignoring my question? In order for your blue line theory to be correct someone at Benchmark would have to be in on the whole deal with Forrest, he is not a graphic artist. How do you explain that?

      • Kyote,
        Earlier Eliza wrote: “I drew in the two blue lines. The curved lines of magnetic deviation are deliberate distractors. ……”

        So the lines are her personal addition, not Benchmark.

        • Exactly Marvin – Eliza drew them in herself. I wonder where she would start if Benchmark had designed the map differently. Even a fraction of an inch either up or down for the poem or left or right for the title would put the starting spot someplace else. I highly doubt Forrest told Benchmark exactly where to put the printing or the map. 🙂

          • That’s my point. FF didn’t design the map. He doesn’t know how. So In order for Eliza’s whole theory to be correct FF had to sit there with someone at
            Benchmark and get the title and the poem and the map in the exact right spot so that later someone (Eliza) could figure out her little blue lines. Wrong! Fail! Sorry Eliza you need to go directly to jail do not pass Go do not collect the TC. You are just another in a very long list of overly confident, loud searchers to whom it must be said “If you know where it is, why don’t you have it? Show us some pics or shut up!”

          • did he not design the map? there had to be some discussion on where the poem was placed. and maybe the draft board of the map and where the poem lay was a decision left up to ff. he is crafty, benchmark could have been doing his secret work and not even known.

          • Navy that goes back to the whole unintentional clue saga. I think there is even a video about how the book and map were designed. Benchmark definately did the map.

            Eliza I regret saying shut up should have said show us pics or always use IMO.

          • Kyote, you are to hard on Eliza, her passion is in the right direction, and a very creative direction if I may say. I love her drive to find an opening. this is how I first found my path, on the couch looking and thinking. I think we all jump around though. Maybe Eliza will use this great wrong idea to propel her towards the solve. My first several wrong ideas are what propelled me towards what i believe to be the true solve. So Eliza, do not let the naysayers stiffen your spirit, you are a magnificent thinker and I have much enjoyed you theories.

            never set your goals so they can be accomplished in this life – tt..pp

          • Eliza ; I’m wondering what other poem based treasure hunts/puzzles you’ve researched in order to conclude ff is copying the British style?
            I’d posit that most american poem-based puzzlehunts have a long tradition of this “ignore the surface reading” approach (I’m having a very hard time coming up with even 1 example that Doesn’t employ this approach). IMO , the form isnt much of a clue, the content is: ff hasn’t done anything special by emulating that style– but just was informed by history & tradition.

            sidenote: would you agree that most British style puzzles owe credit in part to Poe , Stevenson, & Conan Doyle? Many other treasure hiders have read Goldbug for example, as a sort of ‘101’ course.

  29. WWWH is the beginning of stanza #2, ff said start at the beginning, the beginning of the POEM is stanza #1.

    • There are many meanings to words we neglect to understand, or even use in the wrong context


      1. a start; commencement
      2. (often plural) a first or early part or stage
      3. the place where or time when something starts
      4. an origin; source

      So in starting or commencing you have choices to consider.

  30. I wonder if Shaun’s statement is related to the controversy of searching in YNP. Perhaps he feels it is not appropriate to encourage others in that direction?

    • Well…in any event…it’s not unlike a Redcoat to turn tail and run once they realize they’ve been beat. 🙂

      • I am confident Shaun was not searching in YNP…we emailed back and forth, and I know he was a Coloradofenn.

  31. Was going to search Labor Day weekend

    But now we leave tomorrow 🙂 last search for the year

    Water High is on a hill 🙂 !!!!!!!

        • Amy, are you driving, flying, packing a sleeping bag, tent, or taking a trip down to Santa Fe to meet with f? Any details you can share would be exciting for some of us to read. It’s like we are on your chase with you. I, personally, may not be able to read updates throughout the weekend. I plan to be in the mountains north of Santa Fe as well. How long will you be on your Facation?

    • Good luck Amy,

      I often wonder how close some of your info is to mine. If you find it I will be so proud for you. You are a die hard here, imo.

      be safe, be fun


  32. inthechaseto

    The poem does say BEGIN IT – begin what – THE TREK.

    That does NOT mean the poem puzzle begins there.


    All of this is IMO of course

    well we could have paragraph upon paragraph of discussion on this and ultimately I don’t know if we would really be disagreeing or just seeing and wanting to say things in a different way

    let me put it this way. The poem says begin where warm waters halt. We both agree that is where the Trek begins. So I would say we need to know what or where that is.

    someone might say you have to start in the 1st stanza to understand WWH. Ok, but that doesn’t change that where you begin is WWH. It would be where you begin the trek, so also wherever you began solving the clues, it is about where you start.

    Maybe you found the clues in the first stanza, but what were the clues were you looking for? A clue about WWH, so it comes back to WWH was where you began, and the clues you are looking for are about where you begin, whether or not that clue is in the first stanza or elsewhere.

    Still WWH is the beginning. That’s what the clue actually is … WWH …or …. it is what another clue is about, WWH.

    Now look at it from another angle. Someone may decide to start with clues that are not about WWH. Forrest has suggested some clues may be solved then reverse engineered to WWH.

    Ok, so that is where they begin solving the poem. But then, where you begin solving the poem is not the beginning. You can possibly solve a clue after the beginning, but, ultimately you are doing so, hoping to reverse engineer and figure out what WWH is, in other words, you are trying to figure out what the beginning is.

    See, notice the pattern here. The beginning remains WWH, no matter how you try and solve the poem. The poem can probably be solved different ways and starting with different clues, but ultimately there would only be one solution, so however you arrive there, there still is only going to be one beginning.

    If we start with solving a clue that comes after WWH, why would we want to reverse engineer then, what WWH is..?

    Because, Forrest has said, you need to know where to start.
    Notice that Forrest didn’t say … where you start has to, or needs to be, the first clue you solve. He says … you need to know it.

    If you figure out the HOB, and come up with WWH as a result, then guess what, you know where to start, you know what the beginning is. And according to Forrest, that’s what you need to know.

    I think there is more to it than that, and that is why Forrest says, you need to know it, more than just as a place to start. Other wise it wouldn’t make sense to need to know it. You could proceed from the HOB and not need to know it. So there is a reason he says you do need to know it, imo.

    • Chris –

      You said – If you figure out the HOB, and come up with WWH as a result, then guess what, you know where to start, you know what the beginning is. And according to Forrest, that’s what you need to know.

      That is indeed how I found where to start the trek. But it is not in stanza 1 or any other stanza.

      There is a reason you need to know it – it helps to solve the puzzle completely.

      And of course, that is not all you need to know.

    • Hi Chris,

      Brilliantly written.

      I tried to ascertain if there was a clue in stanza 1 that narrowed the scope as to location; a general area not to determine what is WWWH.

      After reading your post I now put my thinking process down to wishful thinking.


      • Pipinoz

        thanks for the kind words

        if you were trying to look for clues in stanza 1 to narrow the location, in my opinion, you should

        that is how i zeroed in on the area i eventually concluded was where WWH

        not just stanza 1 either, i think, but the whole poem is loaded with subtle hints that get you to the right general area. some of them, i believe are hinting at things not necessarily in WWH, or HOB, or in the poem path, but they are there right in that area nonetheless

        the recognition of the high quantity of these confirmation clues is the springboard to focus more in a certain area and then start to more specifically and understand a lot of the same clues, but on a deeper level

        good luck with your solve and searches

    • CY, you are so insightful on the details, it is such a pleasure to read you rationalizing context against theory. I truly wish to comment on the technicalities you pursue but its best to wait till my search is over. Guess it would be ok to say hob is quite subtle yet deep, and rich with duality. It is part of the blaze.

      • Could be but below (south) is not in the rockies. You would have to go West to the Wet Mountains and no place for the meek

    • I think the beginning is before the poem, when he decided to begin the chase. There is a purpose and intent and everything followed that. You start where he started and that purpose defines WWWH.

  33. People will be surprised when they find out where it is.

    i think people will also be surprised at how the poem is solved and leads to such a place

    ( if that is ever revealed )

  34. While I had heard it mentioned, i just fully looked into The Chase yesterday. I found this blog and without looking at when it was posted, added to the WWWH thread, but will repost it here- along wiht a new idea from after.

    There are so many ideas that are good for WWWH, and all of the poem, which is what makes finding the treasure so hard. I have seen so many people “sure” and have not heard news of the discovery yet. I can see how WWWH can be the continental divide, where water freezes, the sinks near Lander and others mentoned. Instead of giving a different location for one of those ideas, I will try an idea that I did not see mentioned so far. I’m not going to be cryptic and say how I have a place in mind but no details, but just share and if it does lead further clues for someone, then great. I can’t wait to see the entire solution once someone has it. I’ve lived without the gold part my whole life, but not knowing the answer drives me crazy.
    So to try something different, what if Where warm waters halt was refering to something like Warm Springs Station. It’s a pony express station, where they would go alone. The word halt also goes particularly well with horses.

    The history of Warm Springs Station on the wyoming Places map says “Up a kanyon of the Sweetwater. Ford the river 5 times, making a total of 8. After 16 miles, “Ice Springs” in a swampy valley, and one quarter of a mile beyond “Warm Springs.” Then rough descent and waterless stretch. Descend by “Lander’s Cut-off” into fertile bottom. “Rocky Ridge Station;” at Muskrat Creek good cold spring, grass, and sage fuel.””(quoted from Sir Richard Burton’s 1860 trip)

    I could make some of that fit: rough descent = canyon down
    Lander’s cut-off = Lander was Camp Brown, although 10 years after Burton’s trip
    waterless stetch = no paddle
    ice springs or good cold spring would fit “worth the cold.”
    I have seen where people equate wise with sage = sage fuel
    Someone above put a quote from the trapper book that mentioned sweet water (the name of the river that is in the area) and trappers used to delouse in the warm springs near the station.

    Each station is 12 miles apart. Too far to walk, by 2 miles- but he says near the end( it was a Home Station, so near the end of journey), so 10 miles would put you right on Rocky Ridge, which would be a good place to look down.

    They would have had postmarks for the stations. I haven’t bought the book yet as I started ooking at this today, but I heard there are a lot of postmarks in it.

    Rocky Ridge/St Mary’s station was made a garrisoned depot during the civil war, which could be the heavy load. It was burned down by 150 Cheyenne and Arapaho. “The station was rebuilt, but nothing remains except old square-cut nails, melted glass, broken pottery, and pieces of telegraph insulators”. I do know Forrest was fond of pottery.

    Other parts don’t fit and I don’t know how that area would be significant to him. Just throwing one more idea out there for people to consider/chase.

    • Two stage stops on from there was Upper Sweetwater, also known as Burnt Fork and Burnt Ranch because it was burnt down twice. It was also called “ninth crossing of the sweetwater, which “fits” with 9 clues. With it’s other names, it was also South Pass station, with the next one being Pacific and the start of the warm waters, so it would also be where the warm waters halt in a way.
      What could make this fit better is: Today, most people view the pass from the BLM’s roadside exhibit, situated just off state Route 28. From there, it is possible to follow the old trail ruts next to the exhibit parking area to the actual summit which you will know you have reached, even without a GPS unit, by the two markers you will find there.

      So most people just drive by, which could be related to the 500 feet thing I read. Oh, one of those 2 markers is the “Meeker marker”.

      • Very impressive Wyo! Now all you have to do is put it all together and go get it. You make more sense after two days than some have made in years. Wow. Serious competition here folks.

        • Thank You.
          I doubt I will be able to put it all together, which is why I don’t mind sharing ideas to maybe lead others to getting it. Living in Wyoming, it is so vast that you could be in the right area but miss it if it is well hidden. While all of this can fit, I can make just as good an arguement for other places, as I will in my response to the next comment. I am outside a lot doing photography as a hobby, and more than anything now I can keep my eye open while already there. This will more likely be what I do than go specifically for it. Now if I go down to the Green Mountain/Crooks Mountain HMA, I might just take a little trip along the sweetwater to the stage sites…

          • I admire your generosity in sharing what you know and have observed. The best to you!

          • Thank you. Good luck to you too. If you do find it, let us know the solve. I almost think if I found it I would only take a few coins, maybe add some photos, and then I would be satisfied because I knew the answer and still leave others the fun of looking.

    • Wy –

      If you figured all that out in a few days you should have the treasure by next week.

      • Thank you, but even if I was right and got in the area, the land is so vast and it could be hard to find a hidden treasure.
        While some of this fits and the Sweetwater is blue ribbon trout fishing, I could make just as valid an arguement for other places. There is a “put in” below Browns Park/Brown’s Hole at the Gates of Lodore in Dinosaur NP. Just below disaster falls where Powells heavy load of a boat sank you could go up one of the canyons without a paddle. Maybe up Zenobia Creek to where the fire tower still stands to watch for blazes, or maybe on the other side like Jones Hole- and then up the hill amongst the petroglyphs and waterfall ( high water) until you SEE the blaze tower on Zenobia (never said you had to be at it). Then down in rocks or what might be year-round snow I can see on google earth it could be hidden. I know this wasn’t spelled out as deep, but a lot fits in this area, too.

        That is the problem, I can come up with plausible solutions, but too many. I have seen so many people “sure” because I think we tend to bend things to fit areas we get fixated on. I am hoping by sharing ideas and many eyes looking at it, maybe things will piece together for a group.

        • I have always felt that someone who knew the area – prior to the poem being written even, would be the one to find the treasure. You sound like you know the area well.

          To find a reason for FF being there – will most likely be a key to your quest. Also to find a reason for him going in there “alone” may be important.

          Thanks for joining us – and I wish you the best of luck.

          • Inthechaseto: I think your advice re: “find a reason for FF being there” or said another way–why it may be a special spot for FF is right on the mark. I’ve considered some potential locations in this area of Wyoming but haven’t been able to identify a spot that seems to address that aspect of the chase. I notice that most searchers never address that issue when writing about their searches or when discussing their potential search sites. I guess I’ve always just assumed that the area importance to FF was one of the major clues. It seems like if that is NOT a “clue” then the number of potential hidey spots grows exponentially .

          • I probably shouldn’t do this – but if you find the MAJOR clue – it will lead you to the key word.

          • @inthechase – are you willing to elaborate on your ‘major reason?’
            I plan to search my area for a 3rd and final time. Lots of planning and hard work accomplished in past 2 trips. I’m confident of the general area, but specific 12 foot vision at trails end eludes me. I’m happy to share my ideas as well if interested.

          • Inthechase,
            I agree about someone knowing the area should find the chest. You are not looking in my area are ya…? :mrgreen:

          • inthechaseto: I have no idea if we are even close to talking about the same thing or place but in my solution a keyword in the poem is directly connected to the hidey spot and hinted at in both ttotc and tftw.

          • Inthechase,
            I will not be making any trips this year. If you plan on making a trip and would like to talk you are more than welcome to email me and I will share what I have if we are in the same area.
            Add usa at gmaildotcom

          • Nor – I would be happy to help you out in any way I can – give me your e-mail.

          • Inthechase, thank you.
            please contact me via email: info at swanriverpublishing.com (use at symbol and no spaces) please let me know who to expect. It may be a day before I’m able to respond.

    • I don’t know if anyone will see this branching from a few days ago, and while this was one of many thoughtlines I came up with, I find 2 of Forrest’s posts this week interesting for this idea. First was an artifact of a horse that wanted to be free but did his job. This could fit along the pony express lines, or the wild horses that live in the area. Then there was a jade mask. As someone noted, Jade is Wyoming’s gemstone, and one of the main areas to find it is the granite mountains. The large jade deposit oval on this map covers the area mentioned in the pony express solve.

      • I was giving up on trails…interesting as the pony express wouldn’t be a human trail. We were talking on my forum about all the clues fitting a common denominator so that you’d go in confidence because you are looking for the same of something on your next clue. So the different stops/halts where mail is delivered could be interesting.

        Before the map was made available to most of the searchers I had searched Guernsey Wyoming at register cliff. It has a stop there and in the cement at the base that had an FF drawn into it.

        I think I get why he posted the mask……hmmm have to think on that a bit.

  35. Warm waters halt once they become drinking water, thus a filter teatment plant. I found a paper on a water treatment plant in Sante Fe off Upper Canyon Rd. Above it is an abandoned saw mill next to a bird sanctuary. I’m not sure if this fits.

  36. I am so sorry, in advance. I just cannot leave well enough alone. I am absolutely no closer than anybody else to finding the chest after over twenty attempts. For those of you that are wondering….I define an attempt as actually getting into a vehicle and going to the spot to have a little looksee. Germanguy and I teamed up recently, but we both had searched on our own for over two years prior to that. We may not see eye to eye on things…but we both have similar ideas about how this thing will eventually be solved. I want so badly to call this next statement a fact…but I cannot, for obvious reasons.
    It is so obvious to me when I read the poem that the literal translation will not give you the knowledge needed to locate the chest. some arbitrary wwh or hob….No!! FF has said that the one that finds it will have thought and planned and will go right straight to it. I don’t care what kind of Houdini you are, that poem will lead you nowhere near where the treasure is until you figure out how to read the true directions hidden somehow within the text of the poem. ELIZA is on to something (possibly) in my opinion. At least the idea that there is a hidden message in the poem is being considered by Eliza. I really hope to be proven wrong soon, so I can move on with my life. But until then, I will keep pursuing that hidden agenda until somebody finds it, or I die.

    • MD,

      I truly commend you are you search to go out there and get cold and dig in deep and make it happen. And i do agree with you on your belief that there is a hidden message in the poem, however it is not as hidden as you are thinking, yet hidden just enough, with just enough of a twist. you have to think a little twisty i guess. I really love a good story with a twist. but when the twist is so simple and so in front of you it blows your mind bc is was right in front of you the whole time….imo but you don’t have to go all Einstein on it. But you do have to get all brave, man you are gonna have to be brave. And I know you have been brave, I followed your search story. Its too bad you over complicated the solve and were brave in the wrong spot. I believe i will need to be brave as well. Not really looking forward to getting cold, hope i don’t drift down and flip. well anyways If I don’t find it I hope you do MD more than anyone on here for being so dug deep on an idea. That is how someone will find it,


    • ITCT said “I have always felt that someone who knew the area – prior to the poem being written even, would be the one to find the treasure. ”
      At least the idea that there is a hidden message in the poem is being considered by Eliza. ”

      If the poem was a straightforward literal description of the location and path, then someone with local knowledge would be have a huge advantage. They could recognize it and go there and simply follow the poem to the treasure. That is part of the deception in the poem, it seems to be that simple when you first see it. It’s not!

      • The “advantage” raises a few questions. If warm waters halt is a physical and literal location, how many would have knowledge of it, in this area?

        Would this area only be know to locals, and not many outsiders, because of it’s remote location?

        Is the poem written so that a searcher [ not knowing the area prior ] know why this area is the location?

        “I have always felt that someone who knew the area – prior to the poem being written even, would be the one to find the treasure. ”
        Is this statement talking about the entire poem or just the area the chest lays in wait?

        Which now raises the biggest question… How large is the area the Author is telling us about? as well as, how large is the search perimeter to the area the Author is explaining about in the poem?

        A person who knows any area well, will always have an advantage over those who don’t. But only if they Know that it is the correct area.

        • Exactly which is why the clues that identify the area are cryptic or hidden. It can’t be identified without solving the poem. So whether you live in the neighborhood or live 1500 miles away, you have to decipher the clues to know where to search. That may seem obvious, but I think it supports the idea that the poem is not a simple straight literal path.

        • “A person who knows any area well, will always have an advantage over those who don’t. But only if they Know that it is the correct area.”

          When someone puts the right solution out there, those that live in the area will recognize it and simple go pick up the chest. Isn’t life great. 🙂

    • Michael, Not to be a contrarian, but, in case Goofy doesn’t say it first: … Your all-caps don’t make it so. W/r/t your post : ” THE LITERAL READING OF THE POEM AS WRITTEN WILL NEVER GET YOU THERE!!”
      …. It’s possible that finding the CORRECT start of the path WILL become a matter of literal direction following. We just don’t know.
      However, one thing I DO know: there are other puzzlehunts out there where literal directions did yield the prize, once you knew what to look for, at both beginning and end. Also, there are many hunts where both a metaphoric AND literal reading become apparent — the double entendre / parallel / loop Style of poem-puzzle-riddle.
      …It’s these that I wonder if FF was referring to when he quoted TS Eliot on Jenny’s site….

      Ain’t 15 years enough time to craft such a well- thought-out mindscramble ? 🙂

  37. Slurbs

    Thank u

    It will be a quick trip I just have this one location to check that I haven’t checked before yes I keep going back to this place I have chosen the poem to me fits this area and clues in the book very well . And I have used my Imigination very well I think. I should start searching on Saturday 🙂

    Water high then the blaze this will be interesting 🙂

    We normally get a hotel room due to me not being a tent camper but last year I did camp one night
    I prefer to have Water and a bed 🙂

    Well I will not be visiting Forrest unless I find the chest 🙂 otherwise I will need to get back and work but I’m self employed so I can make my own schedule .

    So happy I do not have a boss to say what I can and cannot do it makes life just lovely 🙂

    I will post something tomorrow about something forrest has said and why I for sure think it’s in COLORADO 🙂 !!!!!

    • Good luck to you, Amy. I noticed you found a BIG “X” on the map. Forrest said he wasn’t going to put one there for any of us…so you went ahead and did it yourself! Way to go! THAT’S being proactive and determined! I wish you luck. Somebody’s gotta find it one day. It could be you. Never say never. Somebody hurry and find it so we can all get on with our lives already! 🙂

  38. JC

    Thank u that was sweet .
    The only thing I’m looking for is the blaze. I feel that it is in a safe area the only extreme thing I did last year was to climb that mountain where warm waters halt . I almost didn’t make it it was a tough climb took 5 hours for me to climb it. There was a lot of me sitting and drinking water. Lol

    Once I got to the top it was amazing, striking, beautiful, unique , etc…. It was BOLD 🙂 !!!!!

    • I know the feeling, Amy. I love standing on top of mountains. As Edmund Hillary said, “It is not the mountain we conquer…but ourselves”.

      Be safe…especially where the air is thinner. All mountains are not the same…but you know that already.

  39. Oh and the next few days I couldn’t walk my legs where so sore I’m so out of shape hikers would just pass us right on by . 🙂

  40. i wonder if anybody for any reason would like to discuss kites. specifically, Ed, The Wolf or Pirate… (where did you go).

  41. This is my take on this the treasure is in a vault the poem being the vault and the key to the vault is in the book ttotc that is vague but can’t share everything right yet I found the key it has lead me to a spot no cipher or riddle pretty straight forward when I get to the spot ill share my hike and solve

  42. dal,
    In the book TTOTC, it indicates that it is Mr. Fenn’s 9th book…very coinkydink. Do you happen to know what the number would be for the TTOTC if you included stories and other published works by Mr. Fenn? Basically, what is the sequence of TTOTC in Mr. Fenn’s published Titles. I will fall off my chair if you give me certain number. It is not really important, but I am wondering just how clever Mr. Fenn might be as if nine is not enough! Sorry if it seems like I am speaking in “Code”.

    • Wind-
      I can only answer the second question. If we believe that TFTW is his ninth book then TTOTC was his eighth…
      There were no books between them. As far as including magazine articles and stories for other periodicals and publications…I cannot even begin to guess. Forrest wrote a lot of articles. I don’t think he could even say. My unprofessional, non researched estimate is that it may be over 100. There were articles for art magazines, western literature magazines, amateur archeology magazines and even military magazines that he may have contributed to..

      • Thanks dal, Wow.. he has written lots of materials. The first page of TTOTC states it was his 9th book.

  43. i was saying before, i guessed that people within 500 feet weren’t searchers but after finding a few things researching online today that isn’t the case apparently

    ( from an article) he knows of “more than a few people” who have searched within 500 feet of the site


    There have been some who have been within 500 feet because they have told me where they have been


    • Chris –

      What is also interesting is the evolution of f’s comments over time regarding those who had figured out the first two clues and comparing them to these statements of those who have been within 500 ft. I will let those who desire to see it do the research, but there is an interesting divergent between his comments in the spring vs. early summer… I suspect someone got close sometime last spring… probably the man.

      • the people that have been the closest, don’t know that they were close

        i figure he is talking about the searchers who have been within 500 feet here

        so they did search there, and thot maybe the treasure was there since they were searching there, but they dont know that they were ever close, and apparently are not convinced enough thats where the poem leads or apparently they would have continued searching there

        There are several people that have deciphered the first 2 clues. I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest

        how can someone solve 2 clues, but not know they did. maybe he means they did decipher them to the right locations, but then when they didnt find the chest, they were not convinced enough, or confident enough, they had the right solve, so they changed their mind and didnt go back. so, they had the right solve, but really they didnt know they did.

        this is probably why F talks about confidence. the person who searches the right area will have confidence and know thats the right area, and when they are searching, will know they are close. thats the person that will probably find it

        • If the whole clue path is relatively short then perhaps clue 2 puts you within 500 ft. You could also mentally “go past” the other seven by not really solving them. Could be they they never physically went by the the other seven because they only had a partial solution and, as you say, gave up.

        • Here is f’s response on people figuring out the first two clues:

          Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues.

          No one knows they have been close because f isn’t telling anyone “just how close they have been.” It is hard having a lot of confidence in a spot when you don’t find what you are looking for there.

          So if f says that searchers have been within 500 ft but also that a man has been the closest, what is the difference that put the man closer than the other searchers? I am inclined to think that he may have solved more than just two clues. I can’t convince myself that the man randomly wandered closer to the chest than others as I can’t see searchers going into such minute detail when updating f on their searches that he would be able to know the man was closest.

          Note that f passed up on answering several q’s from Jenny about how many clues people had solved and he has stopped making the statement that several parties have figured out the first two clues since I think sometime late last summer.

          It is because of these specific things I do not expect that the treasure will be found with a single trip out. It speaks volumes to me of the difficulty of solving the clues given the clues are contiguous and these searchers walked right past the third clue and were unable to figure it out. I think the person who finds it will do it with multiple trips to the area slowly putting it all together with a lot of thinking at home. Once they have the final piece, they will go with confidence “right straight to the chest” and “not feel lucky, but will be asking themselves what took me so long.”

          • I think the person who finds it will do it with multiple trips to the area slowly putting it all together with a lot of thinking at home. Once they have the final piece, they will go with confidence “right straight to the chest” and “not feel lucky, but will be asking themselves what took me so long.

            i could not agree more

          • jcm- you are on the money.
            The clues are very ambiguous, even if you are at the correct location. Only after you have physically searched, several times, gone back home and studied intensely, do you understand the puzzle.
            I believe that I have the final piece,the blaze, and the rationale behind the puzzle, and I will know in early Sept. if I have finally solve f’s puzzle.
            Last trip for this year.
            You are very perceptive.

          • JCM, since ff mentioned the 500′ statement, do you know if he clarified anywhere he meant linear feet? If not, for me this is a mute point.

        • Chris,
          maybe someone that solved the first two clues were way off of the next seven clues. We all know how Mr f plays word games so therefore…”maybe” the person(s) were not actually close.

      • JCM, interesting observation about the tone of his scrapbooks – last spring was when he started writing TFTW as well… I bet you’re right.

  44. I have heard a lot about as I have gone in there and this my take on that – I think as if the treasure was the one talking as to where its being put in – as I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold I can keep my secrets where – and hint of riches in a hole – this how I understand it – and again its only my opinion

  45. Hey deep thinking searchers,

    I would appreciate your thoughts regarding the possibility of the “hidey spot” actually being in the creek. Refer back to Scrapbook 82 and look at the Submariner comic book…notice all the ice and snow on the cover.

    Let’s assume for a moment that it is in the creek. That might explain “tarry scant” …no trees or tar…and also “marvel gaze” if you can see the chest in the creek by looking down from the blaze. Mr. Fenn alluded to 12ft being close enough to spot it.

    – I have thought that Mr. Fenn may have built a “f fort” around the chest to protect it from the water. The water protects it all from the air…a great way to avoid oxidation.

    – I have thought that the creek might also restrict the time of retrieval to winter just like the scene from the Submariner. This would explain “worth the cold”. For those of us who live in the Rocky Mountains we know that even creeks flow at a high rate and only slow in winter. The high levels and fast water can make it very diffiicult to spot anything in the creek which would make locating the chest extremely difficult.

    — Would a metal detector work or could Mr. Fenn build the “f fort” to shield the TC from detection ensuring that the “marvel gaze” point of the poem is accurate.

    — I can see the “f fort” being an encapsulant of some sort that will require it to be broken away or “chased away” . Recall awhile back I had mentioned that “The Thrill of the Chase” is terminology used by master craftsmen in bronze foundries when they remove the casting and begin the process of chasing away the sand to reveal the “treasure” for the first time. This would certainly bring meaning to the poems title.

    Well, these are my latest deep thinking thoughts and not warming to the idea of having to perform some winter time bobbing for apples. Lots to chew on here…whadaya think?

    • windsurfer as far as in the cold – if you were to build a fire and walked away from it you would be in the cold so the same goes for the blaze its just my opinion

    • Hi Wind & Mark J: I’m no longer searching but happy to share helpful information: your deep thinking water question is a hip waders, swim goggles adventure. My brother and I ‘put in wet’ and spent a combined total of 3 days wading stream beds… considering TC prep necessary to submerge and placement near a stream. FWIW even shallow, crystal clear streams make visibility and probability of finding w/in 12 feet negligible. We spent more time locating very large stable boulders where TC could be placed/wedged on the downstream protected side of the boulder, thus not displaced in fast water spring melt. IMHO I don’t believe TC is submerged. While I do believe its near fly water, I think Forrest carefully selected a spot where he enjoyed a drier version of solitude whispering through the pines near a stream he enjoys fishing.

      (note to James, you’ll understand my meaning…this is allowable)

      • Thank you for your reply Norwegian. Great insights on searching the creek beds. Just curious as to why you did not employ a metal detector in your efforts sloshing around? I believe that Mr. Fenn would have thought of this and in an interest of fairness, he would know that people traveling long distances by plane would likely not have a metal detector at their disposal. This does however suggest an encapsulant of sorts around the chest to shield it and protect it…but one must still be able to identify it from 12ft…

        • Windsurfer, the wading adventure/search was my brothrs passion because of fly fishing connection. I patiently went along keeping thoughts to myself. There is one last trail in my search area I’ve yet to see thru to completion with water high at trails end. In your opinion does ff’s disapointmt with jungle water fall diminish the importance of searching falls? I may have 1 last chance at searching before returning home.

          • Hi Nor,

            I think waterfalls are key to the puzzle…and there are all kinds to choose from. I do not think the jungle waterfall in the book has any bearing unless the aerial descriptors are somehow similar. If you are already in the area, you will kick yourself all the way home and continuously thereafter if you do not take the time to check it out…so go enjoy.

          • Windsurfer, truly appreciate your friendship. Taking your advice to search falls early next week; have to wait for ribs to heal and someone to hike with. do you search w/metal detector??
            May you enjoy sun and sailing 🙂

          • Nor,
            where else would one expect to find a “pot” of gold other than at the end of a Rainbow….

            Good Luck

    • Windsurfurer-
      I was trying to stay away but your Sub Mariner comment has given me an opportunity to explain my past comments.
      I will stop seafood reinforcements and not play games with the community chest. Excuse my bad attempts at humor. I will be straight forward for now on and attempt to explain my thought processes. This will probably get other people upset. I am only trying to give other ideas to work with. You run a good blog and I appreciate the opportunity to participate.
      I believe the poem takes you to the destination but the book describes the route and area. To me Mr. Fenn’s postings seem to give just a little bit more.
      Why “peaked” my curiosity? If I were piloting a plane and looking down over the Rocky Mountains, I would find it helpful to learn the mountain peaks and roadways for visual clues. A good map and TTOTC might help for my identification purposes. (Toas MT?, Sloane MT? Sanfa Fe MT?)
      Here are examples of ideas I’ve had and not a complete solve which I am giving away. I am hoping if someone runs with this then it at least it makes sense to them. I have an area but I just cannot narrow down a specific spot. I do think there will need to be TTOTC knowledgeable person to be within 12’ to identify the “hidey” spot.
      I mentioned Namor is Roman spelt backwards in reference to the Sub Mariner. I am sure it is purely coincidence but Watkins spelt backwards is Sniktau…. A good story of a pen name that I came across as I researched the Raven by Poe (the Raven is narrated by a man that is– to use words in the poem–tired and weak.) I do not think the chest is on Mount Sniktau…I am only showing my thought process. IMO it is a possible reference point. I guess I’m trying to justify a flutterby (TTOTC…Sorry no page numbers-already gave book away).
      I’ve gotten to a point that I dig so deep I can just about make any place in the Rocky Mountains fit the poem…just like anagrams.
      IMO— the whole poem is in multiples. I’ll try to explain. Warm Waters could be more than one type water. H.L. Mencken wrote in a story – warm water for a bathtub is 105 degrees. I like to think at 212 degrees it turns to steam. Maybe an altitude of 8000’ – 9000’ is a possibility. A water basin? A Halt? Why not try a combination of all of these? You could add more with research.
      I’ve tried to justify everything but it is definitely not simple justifications so I’m probably way off base.
      Eliza- I’m not saying I agree with you but nice thinking. There are 50 “o’s” in the poem and wood is in the name.
      IMO a metal detector is not necessary- Fun but I would also be looking for etched material or… try stomping my feet through tall grass. (IMO…A metaphor but also the truth.)

  46. It could be that the location is like a burial chamber and f in a sense is staking his right to be there. The chest is his offering to God to be allowed to inhabit this chamber. Even if the chest is found f may still choose to go there but possible delaying that decision. f seems like a intense person i would rule out a mundane location…Imo

  47. I was mowing today, and a hawk landed on a fence post near me to watch. He could have been waiting for mice that were startled by the mower, or maybe it was a sign.

  48. Lol ha ha funny mark

    Last night there was a big fat frog in my garage
    Was that a sign
    And yesterday a dove was watching us
    Is that a sign


    • Yesterday, I seen a bald eagle fly past my house. Living in central Indiana, this is the first I have seen. I have heard of them nesting on the Ohio River south of me, and on some of the reservoirs north of me, but this was the first that I had seen. It was big, flying low over a field across the street. Maybe that was a sign also.

      • Earlier this year two Ravens came to visit every morning for 9 days in a row alighting in a huge oak tree near my house. They both jumped around croaking and squawking as I worked in my garden and vineyard refusing to quiet down until I stopped my toiling and gave them my undivided attention. As I called back to them they would swoop up into the air, circle around and fly off in a north east direction that remarkably corresponds to the compass direction of where I believe the chest to be hidden.

  49. FF has stated he is not ready to say the chest is not in water….this suggests that when he is ready, he will state the chest is not in water!!

    • I would not expect him to state it so definitively. He will probably say something like the chest does not have water flowing over it. Which could mean it is not in water, or it could mean that it is in water that is not flowing.

        • Or maybe it means that it is in water only at some times (like an intermittent creek), and he didn’t know at that exact moment whether it was or was not.

  50. JCM you say that a “searcher” has been with in 500 feet of the chest where do you get this from? I believe the correct statement was that a person has been within 500 feet of the chest. My thought about this is that F uses Google earth and has found an image uploaded to Google earth with GPS coordinates within 500 feet of his hiding spot. Think outside the box and you might find this chest 🙂

  51. using begin as an intransitive verb

    If you say that a thing or place begins somewhere, you are talking about one of it limits or edges.

    Found this though I’d share.


  52. Using begin as an intransitive verb

    If you say a thing or place begins somewhere, you are talking about one of its limits or edges.

    Found this thought I’d share.


  53. Remember Forrest said I was born a 100 years to late

    100 = Centennial
    Colorado is the Centennial State


    • Amy, I seem to remember that also. Do you know where he said it? I thought it was written in the book but I can’t find it. If anyone can provide a source or a link, I would appreciate it. That statement seems to fit my solution well.

      • Scrapbook 81-also had a small lesson on humility- I should have paid more attention.

          • Hey sensible Jack,
            Just wondering if you have made any road trips, and if you are near the east coast. It would behoove everyone posting here if they would heed your non-linear mantra. There has to be some other people who actually know what the clues are. Let’s just say it’s very time- intensive and not something you want to advertise.

    • Keep in mind also that would put Mr f in the time period of mountain men blazing their own trails westward seeing things for the first time.

    • There is also a centennial wyoming. Coincidently, they have one of the 2 Buford Foundations “Camp Confidence” there which teaches children. “seeing beauty of the wilderness… [they may] see their own beauty.”

      • Wy –

        I visited your website and it is just outstanding. Thanks for doing it. Wild horses have always been a passion of mine.

        • Thank you. Unless I had a more sure idea, I don’t know that I would ever just go looking for the treasure, but so many of the wild horse herds take me in areas that fit that I may just find a place that fits everything. Hmm, didn’t Fenn just post a horse figure…

      • Wyo, interesting to see Centennial wyo area being mentioned. I’m surprised that this area hasn’t been mentioned before. Seems like some potential wwwh in the medicine bow area and further west, the great divide basin is a possibility. I agree with inthechaseto re: your website. Nice work! I think there are quite a few possibilities in Wyo that haven’t been explored (at least on the blogs) and am looking forward to your contributions given your knowledge of the area.

        • Thank you.
          I live in Sheridan, which Fenn visited every year, and I am working on a solve from here that might trigger something in someone. Sheridan itself is under 5000 feet, but Spear-O-Wigwam where Hemingway finished Farewell to Arms isn’t.

  54. Samsmith…have you been on your adventure yet? How are you doing in regards to the chase? I had high expectations from you.

    • Been waiting for the funds to make a trip MD…Still have the same solution to check out…Only one place to go for me…Hope to be on the way soon…


    • Also, been a bunch of discussion on here the last few days that is making me anxious to get gone…

      Some folks are hitting close to home in solving the poem….Won’t say how but others are beginning to get the idea there are things hidden in the poem…Been sitting too long on my solution…Time to go west before another gets the site to search…


  55. I recently researched this area north of Santa Fe. The painted wings on Fenns birds, the tarry scant, water high, the study of prehistoric involvement, two mile dam that was once there for fly fishing, Susan’s bathtub picture pertains to the juniper line, the contrail in the background, high line ditch, power plant below, heavy loads not far, it used to allow bicycles, the runners all around. The old saw mill cut down all the trees so became a bird sanctuary, and so much more it fits on a deep way, just got to do more research.




  56. I believe that the line “Look quickly down, your quest to cease” doesn’t elude to the treasure. but rather to the locale of the treasure. Think about it for a moment and you will understand why I say this. Up until recently, there have been a number of states and a myriad of possible locations for the treasure. Fenn realizes the breadth of possibilities is endless. No one could possibly find the chest. So he eliminates a few states and reduces the possibilities to a somewhat smaller area (though it is still huge). Although he would like the chest to remain hidden, he also realizes from the ideas shared on the blogs, that it will be never the less as difficult for future searchers to find.

    Almost every treasure map of the past has at least referenced a “locale” (excluding treasures lost at sea). The problem then was only isolating an “area”. Which in itself could be a great task. And add to that the exact “spot” of the treasure.

    You can see how complex that would be. So I see the “quest” as one for the “locale” first and the treasure second. The complexity is in the number of states involved.

    This is just food for thought.

    • OK Germanguy –

      I see your point. Locale – geez he has never really given a hint as to that. Very smart on his part. He has mentioned YS so many times – I’ve lost count. So could you eliminate that locale – I say yes. How many other places has he mentioned. Take them out.

      Now – how did he hid the chest without ANYONE seeing him? Maybe behind some locked gates. So if you don’t have locked gates in your equations – throw out those places.

      What does that leave?

      • We’re addressing two different issues here. “Treasure” is one, but very likely the “quest” is another.

    • Why do you think he wants the chest to remain hidden? Imo, he really wants it to be found, even though he seems indifferent.

      • All we can do is guess that answer. None of us will ever be able to answer it.

        If it is ever found, it may likely be after we’ve lost him to the “Great Hunting Grounds for Arrow Heads”

      • DP,
        I believe Mr f would like the chest to remain hidden so that he will be remembered for a long time. However…in todays world people would not leave Mr f`s family alone if the chest remains hidden after Mr f passes. Therefore the chest needs to be found while Mr f is still alive IMO.

        • Just my opinion – but I think his family wants it found – now. I have no reason to believe that – just a hunch. It’s probably the way he has continued to come out with more and more clues. I think other people – such as The Draper Museum etc. are getting tired of people bugging them. There are others I could name – but won’t. Therefore – if I think he wants the treasure found – I am listening very closely.

        • It would be very interesting if the chest is found while Forrest is alive, I think. That way we can learn first-hand if the hunt went as he originally “planned” it ….or did it evolve and take on a life of it’s own?

          I’m pretty sure that Forrest’s family wants the treasure found soon so they can spend more time with dad and granddad…fishing…or playing games…like sneaking into Ranger Reid’s cabin and short-sheeting his bed. 🙂 …which is exactly what he needs after a long day chasing Fenn Treasure hunters around. Maybe even throw some itching powder in his bed for good measure. Let’s just say it’s his “privilege, not necessarily a right”. 🙂

          • Forrest said he has three books on his computer so – maybe he has one planned for when the treasure is found.

            I think he is such a great planner that he has the end of the chase planned too.

            He has to make it a grand finale – and I think I know how he is going to do that.

            If you think about it – it will help you solve the poem IMO.

          • Hello Inthechaseto, I think I know what you mean. It ties in with: “So WHY is it that I must go”…which can be turned from a question into a phrase: “So why it IS that I must go”. And just today I found a connection between a rainbow and thirteen degrees and “there’l l be no paddle up your creek”…if you see my point, Inthechaseto…if not, you’re probably not far off of the point…after all, you started it.

            Now if only I had a hot spot where I could make all of this fit.

          • JC –

            I have watched you progress along the path to the solve and you are getting closer and closer IMO Keep going. Good Job.

          • JC –

            Are you starting the degrees from where Forrest started? I must tell you I came up with 15.

          • Always a pleasure, Inthechaseto. The thirteen degrees isn’t exact. I was sort of guessing at the location of the rainbow in the forest. If I adjust it just a little east then…likely where it should be…then 15 works just fine. Of course, I don’t know how far off the point I am…or should be. For now I guess I’ll just stick to the middle ground…and paddle up the creek…without a paddle.

            I’d really like to end it, too. I’ll race you! 🙂 …but before I jump the gun let me make sure I’ve got my footing…which is totally not like me. 🙂

          • JC –

            You must start your journey from below the HOB – you can’t get to the start – so don’t even worry about it at this point.

            Get that and everything else will fall into place.

            I’ve already had my turn – I’m just here to help now.

  57. Still trying to find that blaze 🙂
    I have looked at a lot of trees today and at main entrances at the water tower past the water tower around the water tower down the roads up the roads.
    Along the river did find a F on the bridge but no wood in water

    All day I have been looking we have stopped to wat dinner and we still gave daylight we have a few more places in mind 🙂

  58. Okay, I’ve been off and on armchair searching for a year now, with a few months break in between. I have a couple of solves more than halfway figured out, but I want to throw out part of one I was thinking about today. Forrest seems to be all about life. His stories are his memories. So, it would seem to make sense that the poem is his journey, but that he is now “passing on the torch,” to make it your life journey, too.


    WWWH and TIITCD: Birth

    And this is where part gets iffy, but briefly. Was Forrest born in Texas? I don’t know, but if we put in below the Molly Brown house in the Platte River (which fits the numerous hints of girls with thick braids going back and forth, as the Platte is one of the thickest braided rivers in the area).

    Shortly after you put into the Platte, you formally enter the Rocky Mountains through Waterton Canyon. This is where NPFTM clue is solved, because there are multiple sources online about a conversation a mountain man had with Meek. He said something like…”the Rockies is no place for us, if it ever was. What do you say, Meek? Do we leave?

    So, you’re heading down the road along the South Platte River, and what do you know? There’s a climbing rock called “Childhood’s End,” which is basically a cliff. This is important because of catcher in the rye. Holden Caufield thought the catcher was saving the children from losing their childlike innocence.

    So, now we have been through birth and the end of childhood.

    And that’s where I’m sort of stuck at the moment. However, if you follow the river a little bit further, the Platte splits off and becomes Tarryall Creek. There could be something in that. From hints in the book, my opinion of scant is that you might go into Tarryall, but just barely.

    Then I’m stuck. I would like the poem to end up in Aspen, near a place associated with the end of life, but I haven’t worked out those kinks yet. I’d like to think that when you find the chest, you will be like a witness to FFs end of life, but instead of resting in peace, you’ll take the chest and go in peace.

    Still a lot of research, and this may be another abandoned solve before the weekend is over.

    Anyway, just my two cents. I’m also convinced that The Rusty King refers to iron, because some geologists refer to iron as the rusty king of all metals.

    And the where in the first stanza isn’t where–it’s here. The w (or small omega) could be the blaze or where the treasure is.

    Orson Welles is mentioned a few times. He was born in a place called Kenosha, which happens to be fairly close to Childhoods End.

    And I’m pretty sure there is a theme about fakes somewhere along the journey. The Duveen brothers, besides studying postmarks and stamps, dealt a lot in forgeries, as did elymer de Hory and Clifford Irving.

    Anyway, that’s what I’ve got so far.

    And edward hopper didn’t paint “Hail to Peace.” George Bellows did.

    • What wonderful relief … Two new bloggers, you & Wyoman bringing fresh ideas to this blog. Kinda tired of all the eency-weeny hair-splitting. More please.

    • Mindy its not what you know it’s what they think you know. Welcome aboard. Wealth of knowledge you have. Sometimes a forgery is very difficult to detect.

  59. There is no way to tell where to start. It would be a total guess. I am ending my headache now by giving up until a decent clue comes along

  60. Had a nice search today nice weather. We will search again tomorrow then back to Texas .

    I felt extremely confident in my solve of the poem

    The blaze for any of us will be hard to find , only forrest knows .

    I did find a F on bridge and right below is water ( cold) but no wood

    Why is there a F on the bridge
    Who knows

    I do wish everyone the best of luck

    🙂 !!!!!!!

  61. Just out of curiosity, who feels that some of the [9] clues are found outside the search area? [ Map from TFTW as reference ].

    As well as, who feels the words/ lines / sentences in the poem are the actual clues ?

    Do the interpretation of the words, phrases, etc. tell the reader what a clue actually is?
    [ example; WWWH is not water at all ].

    And Finally, who may believe there are clues in the poem other than the words, phrases, definitions etc.?
    [Example; to far too walk… could be 202 or 22 ]

    • Great questions for discussion seeker.

      Here goes…

      1. I do not believe the clues lie outside of the map area provided in TFTW.

      2. I believe the words and lines in the poem are the actual clues.
      – I believe WWWH is in fact water
      – I believe canyon is a canyon
      – I believe HoB requires capitalization
      – I believe meek means meek
      – I believe the creek is a creek
      – I believe there are heavy loads and water high
      – I believe “it” and “it” are one in the same
      – I believe that “it’s” is similar, but different from it
      – I believe you must go wyse and find a blaze
      (for the record…I have done this just recently)
      – I believe your ?2(cease.. think omega symbol)
      – I believe tarry scant and marvelous gaze
      (you must see the TC..looking down from blaze)
      – I believe Mr. Fenn went to why
      – I believe f is tired and weak
      – I believe you need an ear to listen
      – I believe you must “brave the cold”
      – I believe the wood is key to the title

      3. The only other thing I have found “hidden” in the poem for my latest search attempt is a riddle…it may not be by design though..just something that triggered in my mind.

      I do not believe in cryptic clues. I believe it is straightforward because Mr. Fenn says it is. I think people will say…why didn’t I think of that…it is so obvious.
      Now…will someone please go out there and retrieve it. It is simple….but not easy. Well, these are my latest thoughts leading to failure..hope this helps.

      • @Windsurfer – you may surf the wind, and ride the tides… but your straight forward logic is rock solid and always welcome:-) If you are wrong, I don’t care; just glad to hear a non-Brit approach. My best wishes for you to find Forrest’s treasure Wind!

        • Sissel, Thank you for such kind words and support. All the best to you and don’t forget…”MIND THE GAP”!

          • Hello Windsurfer, I enjoyed your comments immensely. You’ve put a lot of thought into this, haven’t you?

            And “Mind the Gap” indeed. I gotta get me one of these:

            “Don’t be caught wearing this hog blanket on the tube south of swindon or you’ll be in for a ripe bludgeoning, you will.”


      • Windsufer,

        I know in the past 4 years searchers have hit on the topics of my questions. But for the new comers to the chase, as well as the more senior searchers, these questions usually bring a good discussion and fresh thoughts.

        Allow me to comment with some of my opinions to your response if I may. IF WWH is actually a body or represents running or still water then the poem must say which it is. As of yet only some [ “few” ] have gotten the first two clues, but was never stated if WWWH was one of those clues. If the first two clues are held in stanza one… there is a good possibility no one has the correct understanding of WWWH as of yet. So how does one find Warm waters? I have heard many many very good thoughts, but those thoughts seem to be just hunches. I see the answer having to be a more direct one then just hoping to figure out WWH because hoB is near by or water flows down a canyon etc.

        Honestly, I feel most of the poem relates the same way, None or most of the poem having no physical place until the blaze… imo. For my theory the blaze is not so much in the words but built into the poem. So when you stated you found a riddle of sorts hidden in the poem, You got my attention. Even if it turns out to be a false lead or dead end, it tells me you are open minded to see things other than just literal.

        Thanks for the response

        • Seeker,
          I do not think the poem tells us what or where WWH is and it truly is a bit of trial and error I suppose. There have been lots of great ideas offered for WWWH, but until it is solved i guess we will not know. Interestingly, my current attempt allows for three different versions of WWWH and still takes me to the same place regardless of which one I begin at…so who really knows.. That is the challenge in it and probably why Mr. Fenn has stated the importance.

        • Windsurfer,

          Seems I’m a bit confused. Most [ not sure you personally ] believe WWWH is the very first clue. if so, then the poem should tell you in some form or fashion what that clue is. Otherwise finding that clue would be a crap shoot.

          If that’s truly the case… I give up!

          I think the beginning and WWWH are related but not the start point to understand the poem. I also believe that reading just a line from the poem is the wrong method in understanding the poem.

          Stanza two have 4 lines, but two sentences [ as I’m sure you know ] So the question is are there 4 clues? 2 clues? one? what I see are all hints. but that’s just my way of seeing the poem.

          Always interesting to read others thoughts. Thanks

          • Seeker,

            Actually, I think a “crap shoot” has better odds. But, do not get discouraged. Everyone attacks the poem in their own way. I have never really paid that much attention to how many clues, which are which, do they start in first stanza or second… I do not see how this matters. I just take it all in try to identify a location and start where the poem starts in order to get a fit..or have a fit. I do believe the correct solution will somehow incorporate every line…no fluff or filler.

            I agree, that the first stanza is a puzzler in that it is difficult to discern whether it is alluding to the end-game or is actually the beginning or both. I do believe that “in there” could mean that Mr. Fenn went in the creek to hide the chest and that is where we will get “cold”.

            Best of luck in your quest.

      • Windsurfer, I have felt for a long time that I have been within 500 feet. Know I believe that I have not been in that 500 feet distance from the TC. I have been slowly making my way toward that 500 foot area… IMO. I have lots of opinions these days, it seems. If f is keeping an eye on me, he has seen that I have been taking steps in the correct direction. IMO, I have only recently begun to understand the starting of the whole chase. I have gone alone searching most of the time with not too much difficulty. This last time was different. I should have known what was in store for me when I got a crack in my windshield on my way to the canyon. Fixed it, then I took my leashed one and started venturing. My phone was acting wild. That’s when I found out that my mother’s home burned down just a couple hours earlier. Argh! Now, more than ever, I felt I had to find the chest. I pressed on with more gusto than ever (I don’t know the exact meaning of gusto, I hope I used it right). Next, I wasn’t watching where I was going (I was thinking about my mom) and found myself bouncing off a tree which stopped me cold. I think that tree was waiting for me and decided to jump into my way. I should have been looking up instead of down. I could have avoided a headache. My maker saw this and was saddened which made made tears ensue. It was a frustrating journey, but in the end I learned a lot. Sometimes, thermal underware, an extra warm sleeping bag and a tent are not enough to keep out the cold of mother nature’s swamp cooler. IMO, I believe that even with my head in the clouds, my clarity of the chase solution has become clear. F would be in shock at the path that I took, IMO. I had fun on this one aside from the news of the blaze my mother discovered of her home. No one got hurt. My beast needs a massage. I need a massage. My mom needs a home. All I can say now, IMO, is… next time! Meanwhile, I think I will go study the basics of plumbing.

        • Slurbs, so sorry to hear of the situation with your Mother’s house and the circumstances you encountered in your chase. I know it is not a laughing matter, but it might be nice to read your full account in the Story to Tell contest.

        • Slurbs, Bummer about the windshield. I cracked mine on a search about a year ago. I was probably going down the same canyon too.

      • Windsurfer, you say:

        – I believe Mr. Fenn went to why
        – I believe f is tired and weak

        Is the distinction between you writing ‘Mr Fenn’ and ‘f’ deliberate? Or are they both referring to Forrest?

  62. Colorado Rocky Mountain high
    Here we go one more time .

    I hope I’m not in a daze when I’m searching for the Blaze.

    I believe I know the nine clues, if not then I will have the Blues.

    This is the last search for the year,
    I know that I am near.

    When I look into the sky and see the Son I can then thank God it’s all been fun. :). !!!!!

  63. Good Luck Amy! Hope you find TC!

    Trixie Belden’s 19th adventure was the Secret of the Unseen Treasure. Oh how I can relate! It has been grand fun:)

  64. I have recently been torn between two different approaches. The first is the direct approach, which involves WWWH as the first clue. This approach involves an actual body of water. The only problem with this is that it would be nearly impossible to find this just on this hunch. There are a TON of areas where “warm waters halt.” This means that there would have to be some sort of explanation in the poem that hints as to where this is. Then there is the other approach that involves ciphers or a hidden clue in the first stanza. This seems reasonable, but I have yet to discover a substantial clue in this part :/
    And I don’t know if adding an extremely complicated cipher would fit the nature of the hunt. Although I do believe that there may be some sort of metaphorical meaning that relates to something natural or historical, although I don’t really know for sure.
    I believe that when you find out the meaning of the clues, there will be no “hunches.” As Mr. Fenn said, whoever finds it will move with confidence, meaning that the clues will definitely stand out as fitting perfectly.

  65. One thing I believe most people have possibly overlooked, is the direction in which Forrest took in hiding his chest.

    I ask myself, if I were living in Santa Fe, where would I start the trail to my treasure. And so I see that going from the south and heading north, would be the most logical. The poem could start north of Santa Fe and end anywhere in the Rocky Mountains from that point. This could very possibly make a difference, for people living in the northern states, who read the poem with a different perspective. This is just a thought. Handle with care.

    • Good point germanguy. Not only would folks have different perspective depending on their location, but what down means from the same perspective etc. But here’s a thought… What happens to folks perspective if the start of the poem or the start of WWH or the first clue is not even in the country? or at the very least, not within the search area. The only real Hint we have is that the location of the Chest is North of Santa Fe, But are the clues.

  66. WWWH = the hot springs into the Yampa River? I have been looking elsewhere but may be in my own back yard! The reunion was fun as much as I could attend!

  67. I lean toward the solution being more of a “simple” one, and not a cipher. Not hard, but too hard to solve by merely reading it with today’s understanding of vocabulary. I think there are a lot of mountain man clues in the poem. For example, one way a mountain man would describe someone as being brave was “He had his bark on when facing that b’ar.”

    There were a lot of phrases they would use that if we heard them today, we’d be like “WTH?” And they’d be whispering among themselves, wondering what WTH meant. “It may be a complicated cipher that you can only solve by dividing pi by five trillion,” one mountain man might say to another. Or, “Nooo, I think WTH means you have to switch them there letters around to HTW and switch them to Celtic Runes.”

    And all along it means, simply, “What the Hell.” Lol.

    I’m still focusing on the poem is a journey of his life that Forrest wants to take us on. IMO (at the moment–my opinion tends to change as I research more), the clues from the book and the poem seem to point to Colorado. Childhood’s End in Waterton Canyon just seems like too good a coincidence for me to ignore, especially with Tarryall being very close to that point. I think we don’t tarry all the way along the Tarryall, but as scant means “barely”, we barely tarry in the Tarryall, or just for a short way before we switch direction.

    So, I’m still leaning towards the end of poem, and the end of Forrest’s journey, being in Aspen. It’s where Forrest passes on the chest so he can rest in peace, and we will go in peace to live our own journey.

    So, IMO, the poem is a combination of modern and mountain man wordplay.

    I don’t have high hopes of actually finding the chest (although I will try!), but I’m taking my 13 year old son to Colorado so we can have an adventure, and be a part of history by participating in the chase. We’re heading out on Sept 4th, and coming back to FL on the 8th. I know it will be a lot of fun even if we don’t find anything! 🙂

    • Hi Mindy,

      That is quite the long trail you have mapped out there. How in the world did you discover Waterton Canyon…basically the southwest corner of the Denver Metro area. Old Molly Brown led you here? Love your thoughts on Tarryall. Pay Attention to the fact that Mr. Fenn has indicated the clues are in sequential order. If you are tarrying, you should see the blaze prior to that and spot the TC “quickly” thereafter.

      If your son like trains, there is a great Railroad Museum just outside of Golden…lot’s of old steam locomotives. Not many people know about it…even the locals. One of the older types of steam engines was in fact an attempt of mine at solving the poem quite some time ago. I actually thought the TC was hidden down the smokestack because that is where the poem led me along with some of the storylines in the book. I was so certain of this, I even checked another smokestack on the same type of engine down in Antonito…very much fun.

      Hope you have a great trip. Lot’s of Big Horn sheep in Waterton Canyon. I have even had them walk along the path next to me.

      • Thanks Windsurfer! Yes, I arrived at waterton because of Molly Brown. Forrest has a recurring theme of feminists in his stories, and Molly Brown was certainly one.

        But also because the Platte (a braided river) is below her home, and because Waterton is an “entrance” of sorts to the Rocky Mountains. I take “From there it’s no place for the meek” to mean the Rocky Mountains taken from a quote a fellow mountain man saying to Joseph Meek, where he basically said, “the Rocky Mountains is no place for us…”

        Then there’s Childhoods End which I think is a reference to Catcher in the Rye.

        My son used to love trains, until someone invented Minecraft. Lol. 🙂

      • I searched in Tarryall. It’s a beautiful area. If you go to the reservoir there are things that fit for sure. There is a great cemetery hidden up on a hill on…I think the east side of the road as you go to the dam area. There’s also a bar called the Stage Coach or Stage Stop with a farm of buffalo. I thought when he says to go for a beer after, that he was talking about going there. In the jar of doodads he raffled off for Renelle he had a coin in there that said BAR. So I think there is a bar that’s close to wherever it is.

        Would be curious to what your solve is when you come back if you tell your story. So great you’re bringing your 13 year old. I have often wondered if Tarry was the word that’s key for this reason. Have fun!

        • Thanks, Stephanie! I’m excited to go. I haven’t been out west in a long time, and it just be a fun little adventure. 🙂

        • Whoa! Stephanie: was it in all caps like that????
          Might refer less to a drinking place and more to a certain military weapon with a proper noun tie – in to our chase……

    • A lot of people liking the Colorado connection. Excellent reading material IMO is Osborne Russells Journal of a Trapper.

    • Hello Mindy, And welcome to The Thrill of the Chase! Your comment about Mountain Men wondering what “WTH?” might mean is funny to me. It reminds me of the recent World Cup game with Brazil playing Germany. That was a classic example of WTH? if anybody ever saw one. Brazil had a proven history of performance and garnered high expectations from everyone…then…WTH?!!!!

      Of course, that doesn’t mean that Brazil will never beat Germany ever again. It just means that Brazil is going to have to regroup and try a different strategy. In their case perhaps Brazil needs to learn that the game isn’t as and simple (or “beautiful”) as they’ve believed for the longest time and is, in fact, more complex…which is in contrast to Forrest Fenn’s poem. Apparently, some people think the solution is much more complex than it really is which is why Forrest told everyone that codes and cyphers are unnecessary. Mindy, I think you’re correct with your “simple” conclusion. I hope I can make that fit where I’m searching in the mountains just north of Santa Fe.

      • Thank you. I hope you have good luck in NM! I haven’t ruled anyplace out, yet, and I may have to take a day to go to Laramie during my stay in CO.

  68. Has anyone searched The little Popo Aggie River area? I did drive through here and it’s probably one of my favorite places I’ve gone. It was sort of an accident I went there, because we took a side trip to see my step dad and then went back up north through this area. He’s spoken about Lander, Wy. I was just researching it and I see it’s in sink canyon. That is what Dal has said makes him think of halt and that makes good sense to me. What makes your www actually halt and tell you that you have the correct wwwh? The fact it’s in a place called “sink” canyon?

    It also is near the “middle” fork…and he misses being in the middle. Of course if you’re WYse leads me to Wyoming for my searches there.

    There is also Tensleep Sandstone there and I always felt that Tensleep was his reference to sleeping so much during your life.

    There is also an area there called “loop” rd. I’ve used another loop rd in a solve I had in Montana as being similar to his reference to TC Elliots Poem to end where you begin, but it looks different. I never mentioned this before, but there’s also a road near there called Spur rd. and I thought the unintentional clue was that the cartoon of the cowboy he had in his TFTW book showed the cowboy wearing spurs.

    Back to the Wind River. There is an Indian Reservation which I believe in being a possible “brave” and in the wood.

    There’s part of the river called The Rise, so maybe that’s water high?

    Fun to make possible connections.

    • Stephanie, that was another of my spots. I abandoned it when I found out that a TON of land is on the Indian reservation and that you have to get a special permit to hike there. There is a map that outlines reservation boundaries but I can’t remember the website. I’ll try to find it tonight when I get home. I think the hiking permit is $25 per person.

      • Speaking of cost….I think it’s the helicopter story where he says there was no charge. He also says that Skippy didn’t have a “license” to drive or fly I believe….so license=permit?

        That made me believe it could be right outside Yellowstone, but it’s interesting you say that.

      • Mindy, my SoCal AAA gave me an Indian Country Guide Map for AZ/CO/NM/UT …. they may have ones for other western states.

  69. I found a really interesting definition of the word “in” on a mountain man website, but I’m not sure how it fits. I’ll post it later when I get home from work.

    I’ve changed my location so many times since I heard about this a year or so ago. I’ve researched NM, Meeteetse (where I think it still could be), Popo Agie, and now Colorado. Childhood’s End in Waterton Canyon is just too hard to ignore!

    I’ve bought my plane tickets and reserved a rental Dodge Ram. I told my coworkers about it today, and they think I’ll find it, because I’m lucky that way. I tend to win all the office raffles and when patients or drug reps bring us lottery scratch offs, I always get the winner. Lol.

    However, I’m not sure I’ll be so lucky with this hunt. But lucky (or blessed, I should say) to be able to take the time off and participate with my son (he has selective mutism–think Raj on The Big Bang Theory) on this great adventure.

    We are so excited we can barely stand it!!

    Stephanie, do you have any other advice about Waterton? Weather? Animal we might not want to encounter? Traffic? Interesting places nearby? 🙂

    • No we always stayed in Denver and then ventured out during the day to different places near there. I remember going to Tarryall Reservoir once and you could see the mountains and their natural colors and the next day they were snow covered. That was such a strange and cool site to me.

      I love your Childhoods End idea.

      Never had any animal encounters up there. Rush hour in Denver is pretty heavy and I don’t like even being a passenger going up and down through that.

      Best weather map I’ve found is this one, because in the winter it would show snow cover. It also shows earthquakes, and wild fires.


      Have fun.

      • That’s an awesome weather map, Stephanie. I’ve never seen that before. I really could have used that on one of my previous trips…you know…to see if it’s raining or really freakin’ cold. Then I could have stayed home. Then again, I’ve learned MANY (MANY) places where the TC is NOT! 🙂

        I’ve learned one thing for sure, though. The Treasure is in New Mexico.

        • It’s the only one I’ve ever seen that gives you some of those overlays like snow and wild fires. Hope it’s helpful to others.

  70. Oh, that’s cool. I’ll have to check that out! I don’t think anywhere I’m going in CO is on a reservation, but who knows? Maybe one search won’t be enough. 🙂

    • Good luck with the search Mindy. With ideas like yours I doubt your going to need luck. You’ll probably get it on the first try 🙂

  71. What really are the 9 clues? Does it matter?

    I have been reflecting on my completed solution and to be honest I still can’t tell you what exactly the 9 clues are. That seems really funny since I originally thought the 9 clues were the directions to follow to the trove starting at WWWH and all other information is there as descriptors to add definition and confidence to the solution.

    Now, since I can recognize detailed information in each of the 9 sentences that can be used to locate the trove, I am now leaning towards the 9 sentences. The only problem is Mr. Fenn says to follow the 9 clues in order which is tough since the first stanza is jumping right into the fling of things and the last stanza is giving advise (not so much directions) with some pretty powerful details for interpreting those directions.

    In the end, I guess it really doesn’t matter as long as the solution logically guides one to a precise location from WWWH using all lines in the poem.
    The Wolf

    • I’ve always felt that the fact there are 9 sentences meant something. Maybe each sentence is a street. I never thought about that before, but maybe that’s why people have gone by the other 7. The bigger reason I think that makes sense though, is because it seems like there are more than 9 clues. So maybe there really are, but he’s speaking to the different roads he’s traveled as in his song. He says different roads.


      • i used to think that… the simplicity of streets. The first being Ash Ave (As i have gone alone— “why is it “i” must go) if “i” goes, it’s ash ave. but i’m off that theory. i’m sort of thinking “you have to start at the beginning” and “you have to start where warm waters halt” are two different statements. both being true.

    • IMO following the 9 sentences is the correct way of solving the poem. Start with the first sentence for the beginning and work it through to the 9th sentence for the end.

      • He said logical and that seems logical.

        Here’s a secret I’ll tell you…shhhh don’t tell anyone.

        I once had a solve that included stop signs(halt) and road names. One was Riverview(water high) by Hebgen Lake. There was a row of mailboxes below it and some were zip tied shut I’m sure because winter was coming and they didn’t want the doors(close a door on a relationship)to open up and get it all filled with snow.

        So, I feel terrible about this…but I thought…..he speaks about his Mom waiting for the mailman…and there are the postmarks and all…..so I opened a few(I didn’t really do that if you are a Federal agent reading this…it’s a total lie just made up for the fun of telling a good story).

        I figured some of those boxes(vaults) were big enough to house such a chest. He did say he needed to find just the right one…so I figured size mattered.

        Maybe I was right about that, but just in the wrong spot, but it was a fun solve(don’t ask my husband…he won’t agree…he drove passed the Grayling Creek mailboxes before I had the chance to make my solve work at those mail boxes…that is VERY true).

        • Stephanie and this is my opinion I think he did use a mailbox for the chest that’s why the poem says – put in – that’s why ff doesn’t say that its buried or hidden

          • He also speaks of “Mr. District Atty” and driving without a license. So it seems maybe you are doing something a little sketchy. A zip tie on a box wouldn’t get touched. I just don’t know if he’s serious about the time frame. That might be an issue to it being in one. I think though when he “shuts the door on a relationship” there is a door possibly involved. I wouldn’t think of one of those as being a structure, but he references so many things about houses…he “plotted” to have his bones….his “lot” in life.

            I hadn’t thought about “put in”…I like that. the biggest reason though was that he talked about a vault. He even mentions Donnie’s grandmother or mom worked at the post office up there.

            Speaking of doors…I have thought that since he talks about the Chinese fire drill that whatever it’s in is like a puzzle that you have to unlock. I once thought it was in the backboard of a horseshoe playing game(glad I can’t see who’s laughing)….and also…now this is a HUGE idea I had. Ya know how monuments have those bronze plates on the front? Well, all his talk about “poles” and magnetic north. I thought he might have constructed or reconstructed a monument to have a secret hiding spot behind one of those and you “push” it in for it to release open.

            Maybe some of these ideas will be viable in someone’s search area. I just wasn’t so sure if a monument would be considered a structure. I mean if it’s just one piece with a plate…I wouldn’t consider that a “complex” thing like the definition of structure says and he’s recently said something about looking up the definition of structure. Maybe some were taking it too literal?

          • I think he did use a mailbox for the chest that’s why the poem says – put in

            what address do you think he mailed it to? and did it have to be signed for?

          • My address would be something like 423 or route 4 and address 23 per his dads gravesite location. Does anyone know if that’s an accurate location? I can’t remember if anyone’s ever figured that out.

            I’ve used that number in a few solves. There are 4 tent campgrounds in Cimarron and I was looking for site 23. There was a “hidden” campground in the campground across from Maverick…can’t remember the name…but I walked back there and that’s when I came face to face with a black bear and I was all alone in there *yikes*

          • Interesting theory, but do you believe the mailbox is made of glass?

            He did say that if you were within 12 feet of the TC you would be able to see it. 🙂

          • ok spklr, you had my interest at abq but glass mail box… can we chat? jjohnson202two gmal

    • Wolf-

      A little over a year ago Forrest made some searchers unhappy by stating that he had never given out any clues. In other words, he seemed to be saying that all the clues were in the poem or the TTOTC book and anything he had said since then was not a clue. This statement seemed to be in direct opposition to what we had been calling “clues” on The Today Show and in various interviews. How come these were not “clues”. What did he mean?

      It turned out, as he later explained, that his definition of clue was very precise. Although most searchers would say that his remark “Don’t bother looking around old outhouses.” was a clue…To Forrest it was not. To Forrest a statement like that was a hint…not a clue.

      Forrest later told us the difference. A clue (paraphrasing) will get you closer to the treasure. So, his remark, “Don’t bother looking around old outhouses.” was not a clue since it did not move anyone closer to the chest. If he had said, “The treasure is hidden near an old outhouse.” That would be a clue by Forrest’s definition because it told you where to look. The difference is not always clear and clean. But if we apply his definition to the poem it makes the choice for which is a clue and which is not a clue a bit easier.

      So, based on his definition…the first stanza in the poem certainly contains a hint..He went in there alone. But knowing that does not get us any closer to the chest. It’s a fine bit of information but it’s not a clue by Forrest’s standards..

      However, the second stanza tells us some things which get us closer to the chest..”take it in the canyon down” is, in my mind a perfect example of a statement that would be a clue because it tells us where to go next. It moves us toward the treasure.

      But as you already stated…does it matter whether there are nine or ten or eight clues? I think the valuable take away is to recognize help when you hear it, Don’t get hung up on “clue” or “hint” and recognize that Forrest, by his own definition, gives out very few clues, and many more hints…and his definition of a clue is quite narrow.


      • Dal,
        Your summary is very good and if you go by the narrow definition of more obvious specific directions (I can’t believe I said that), then stanzas 2-4 inclusive contain the 9.

        With that said I am open to the concept of subtle hints in stanza 1,5&6 that could provide specific directional information if you know how to interpret them. I used to think those were just hints to clarify the 9 directions but I now believe they provide hints to directions or add to the precision of the directions.

        Very interesting discussion but as we both said it doesn’t matter if you use it correctly!

        The Wolf

        • I think the hints in the poem only make sense once the blaze is found with the directional clues.

        • I reserve the right to be wrong once in a while. lol
          I take everything back, and I am going with the 9 clues in stanza 2-4. There is another way of interpreting my pervious points that makes sense now.
          The Wolf

      • Dal* I agree with your comment about a clue getting us closer to the chest as opposed to a hint which helps us to figure out a clue. The only flaw I see with your comments is that you have always stated that the second stanza is the first point of direction. I always stated that the first stanza is the general place. The second stanza, to me, is the first move once you are in the general area, but a person has to be in the general area first. Now, you can argue how come I have not found the treasure yet myself if I am too sure. Maybe because I do not understand the other clues. What I can tell you is that the first clue is the first stanza, and I am sure 100% of that. If you ask anybody for directions on how to get anywhere the first thing out of their mouth is direction. People would not say “as I have gone in that road too many times, and with my wife, and kids had a couple of flats, I can tell you the information you need to get out of town”. They would tell you something like this, “well, take I-25, then go 3 miles north, hang a right on exit 225, and at the stop go left for 15 miles, and you’ll see the Raton City.

      • Dal, Your explanation of the difference between a hint and a clue in Forrest’s mind makes a lot of sense. But I must point out that he has said that he spent 15 years writing and rewriting the poem to get it just right and that every word is important (paraphrasing, so feel free to correct if necessary). So by your definition that is a hint not to dismiss stanzas 1, 5, and 6. They are just as important as 2, 3, and 4. The whole poem moves you closer to the treasure when you solve it. The solution is unified in the poem. Removing or ignoring parts of the whole changes it. Think of a symphony or a tapestry. Each part is of equal importance to the final product.

        • Stanzas 1, 5, and 6 take you the correct location to start the trail at the correct WWWH. Without them, you are guessing at WWWH, HOB, etc. and you are viewing a different picture than the one he painted. IMO of course.

        • Yes, of course Jack. Every word and every line is important in providing information that will guide us to the treasure. We were simply discussing his concept of clues as opposed to other types of info he provides in the poem and elsewhere..a third type of information provided, he refers to as mistakes. He doesn’t do this on purpose but sometimes he gets ahead of himself and what comes out is not necessarily what he thought. Lord knows I make mistakes like that all the time. I think it’s useful not to dwell on the mistakes. He says he does not knowingly mislead so mistakes are simply errors…not intentional misdirection. I believe it’s important to be able to weed them out. That can happen easier if you study him. Get to know his speech pattern, his thoughts and recognize when he is tense or comfortable, alert or tired.

  72. chris the address is in the poem and when you find the chest ff will sign you the title to the chest

  73. I just thought I would post some of my current thoughts below:
    I attempted to identify clues based on the idea that WWWH is the beginning.
    First, let’s see a different perspective of the poem. The clues begin with “Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down.” Because there is no comma before the “and,” this sentence technically means to begin where warm waters halt as well as where the waters “take it in the canyon down.” We can only assume what “it” is, but I believe that it is just the quest itself. So let’s take a look at a translated sentence: Begin the quest where warm waters halt and where warm waters take the quest in the canyon down. Now this doesn’t quite make much sense at first glance, but it must be taken into consideration, considering ff’s odd punctuation throughout the poem.

    So we are looking for a place where warm waters end as well as move the quest down a canyon. This is a single point, which eliminates some of my previous theories in which the warm waters halted a good distance from the canyon.

    Anther big question is the word “down.” If you check, it has A LOT of meanings, or at least the adverb form of it does, but I think that it is being used as a preposition in this sense. Does it mean what we think, moving from higher or lower or further along a course, or does it mean “at or to a lower part of (a river or stream)?” I guess both are kind of similar :3
    But this is some deep stuff to analyze, and as Mr. Fenn said himself, whoever solves this will have read the poem over and over, and they will have analyzed. I believe that he has created a big word game where sentence structure and word definitions are vital in understanding the true meaning of the poem.

    • English language does not work that way. “It” does not change meaning mid sentence.

      • I replaced “it” with “the quest” both times. I never changed its meaning.

        • I have noticed the weird punctuation used too and think it could be significant, semi colons and full stops.
          Also the word use is odd sometimes to say the least.
          Don’t forget f has said ‘It is fun to arrange words in such a way that you have to smile at the end of a sentence’

      • Greetings from GNP Mapsmith! Enjoyed grandeur of the ‘crown of the continent’ today… Grizzleys and East side road construction should thin out your competition! 😉

  74. While I plan on doing more research and working on the clues while relaxing, I am going to run over the mountain(Big Horns) to spend a day or two with the spanish Pryor mustangs with my daughter. It is in the heart of Crow country, of which Chief Arapooish said “The Crow country is a good country…if you go to the south, there you have to wander over great barren plains; the WATER IS WARM and bad, and you meet the fever and ague”.
    I may just have to explore those ice caves I have only used to cool down before, and look down as I gaze out across the dryhead from the vision quest sites (technically fasting beds according to a Crow I talked to, but everyone calls them vision quest)
    Good luck to anyone hunting this week, and I will be back with some more ideas in a while.

    • I was wondering what a vision quest is. I was researching the big medicine wheel in the big horns. Someone had mentioned an anagram that included the name Meeteetse and Big Horn Basin which had me wanting to learn about that. I also noticed he talked about going to Meeteetse…I think it was on his blog. It’s the story where the guy has a pick up truck and has those artifacts in the back where he gets the tacks. I think it’s the same blog that talks about a sword found in the big horn mountains or maybe that’s where they all came from(information now blends together in my mind)….

      He also had that one scrapbook with him and his two friends and the oldest guy I think was Crow and I think there was something about him being up by Cody by the museum.

      I love it up in that area…mostly South Dakota in the badlands though on the way home. Every time we go through there, we go drive way far in the back in the national forest land(can’t do it on the actual badlands…but same formations where we go)and do some rockhounding for agates. I suggest to anyone going into a national forest office….pick the brains of the rangers to ask where on their land can you go to rockhound for free or what other things are you allowed to do. That’s how we found this place. I had my husband cut off a rattle from a dead rattle snake the last trip…pretty cool.

      • As far as the museum, he is one of the trustees for the Cody museum. Sometimes I wonder if it isn’t in a museum somewhere hidden in a display or in a closed cabinet . Of course he would need help with that and it goes against him wanting to get people outside.
        I do pick up rocks pretty much everywhere I go. Some cool black magma-type rocks from east of Meeteetsee on my last trip to see the fifteenmile herd. I have found mossy agate there, and it is just like the badlands with banded red and white hills. The pryors have Dryhead agate. I have a little of that, but not a great sample.

        • Wy –

          You are not alone in your thinking of a museum. Bob – at Mike’s Blog has had the same idea. You can speak to him about it here —


          I do believe the Draper Museum is involved in the chase – but the treasure is not there.

          • ‘Not associated with a structure’ and ‘not in close proximaty to any human trail’ run afoul of this line of thought, Imo. Right?

        • I searched the Cody Museum twice on the same trip. I went down to visit my step dad in Rock Springs(is that heavy loads and water high? LOL)….and then I went back up. Since he said it’s open to the elements, the only place I thought it could be would be in the gardens or where his cabin is….or I’ve also considered the giant horse statue in the back. I thought about how he has that picture of him sitting with his back against the rock wall that it was in some secret compartment in where the sign is that tells you about the statue(hear me all).

          That’s great about the rocks. I’m not that rock savvy. It was actually another searcher for a few years ago that got me looking into collecting them.

    • You guys are so lucky.
      I live near Watford in the Uk and the best we got near us is looking at the crows in Cassiobury park lol.
      Yea I know what your all gonna say…you got to get out there Danny-boy and look for your treasure…but ‘going to run over the mountains to spend a day or 2 with the mustangs’…sounds damn mighty fine….

  75. This post is in three parts. The first provides the final pieces to the puzzle as I see it and a final summary of how it fits together. The second is a brief summary of my experience finding the treasure. Finally, there is a short Afterword about my overall take on TTOTC.

    The Rest of the Puzzle

    In July of last year I posted my solutions to the first four clues on this website as well as on Jenny Kile’s. They are still on both. I’ve already posted the solutions to the first two clues, as well as the final five, elsewhere on this thread in the last several days.

    The third clue is Dead Horse Creek

    “The end is ever drawing nigh” refers to death. Nigh is an allusion to a horse (one must look it up) and this may explain the two other hints regarding horses in the book: the picture of the horse and the name of the publishing company at the very beginning, as well as the colophon at the very end, which resembles, among other things (see below), a pair of horseshoes. “Creek” we get for free, and we just string the three together.

    The fourth clue is Hanging Lake

    There are probably two ways to get to this clue: “water high” likely refers to the fact that the lake is perched on a canyon ledge 1,000 feet above Route 6, and one could equate death to hanging and just add “water.” Realistically, the most likely path to solving the puzzle, which I followed, was to Google Glenwood Springs hikes and quickly discover that Hanging Lake was very popular. Once one learns that one needs to follow Dead Horse Creek to get there, and this clue pops out as described above, it becomes pretty clear that one is on the right track. “The canyon down” likely refers to the side Canyon where Hanging Lake is located.

    One last time, Hanging Lake is here:


    By the way, when Forrest misspoke on the Today Show and said the treasure was at least 7,000 feet rather than 5,000 feet above sea level, he was inadvertently providing the precise (within 40 feet) altitude of Hanging Lake.

    We now have all nine clues, and their first letters:

    (1) G lenwood Springs
    (2) R oute 6
    (3) D ead Horse Creek
    (4) H anging Lake
    (5) E ast ten paces on gravel maze
    (6) T wist NE
    (7) A zure cloth
    (8) O wl nook
    (9) O ur woven braid

    The nine letters yield a pair (like so many aspects of the solve) of phrases:



    Once again, the poem, in addition to containing the nine clues, contains homages to people and things that Forrest loved. In this case, he was almost certainly alluding to his father and to the precious and fragile planet on which we all live.

    The last four letters yield TA(Os) or TAOS, another place dear to Forrest.

    Finally, the last two letters reveal the significance of the colophon as well as a reference to owls (their eyes). See more about this in the Afterword.

    Here is what I did with all of this.

    Last July, when I posted the first half of the solution on this website as well as Jenny Kile’s, I had little confidence in it and, most importantly, had no idea that, by the end of the fourth clue, one would be within 20 yards of the treasure. Had I known this, I would not have posted what I did, and in retrospect this may have been an enormous mistake. More about this later.

    I was dealing with a number of health issues at the time and it was not until several weeks ago that I finally went with my husband to Colorado.

    We stayed in Glenwood Springs, and made the short drive to the trailhead. It took us about two and a half hours (I had to frequently rest) to make the climb along Dead Horse Creek to the boardwalk surrounding Hanging Lake, which is, by the way, breathtakingly beautiful. It has an enormous fallen tree trunk across its middle, easily visible from Google Earth, which makes the lake, which is roughly circular, look like a Greek theta or, saying the same thing a different way, a circle with one diameter drawn in. I think this might explain the various allusions to angles and pi.

    The only path away from the lake to the east was, as expected, a rough rocky path about ten steps in length. We turned to the northeast and saw no sign of the blue cloth, but quickly found it several yards off to the southeast. The entire area is bordered by difficult terrain and fairly small. There was no sign of a tree or log with an owl nook or a W carved in it. By this time I had also figured “Tea with Olga” was T + OLGA = AT LOG.

    But it was not there.

    By this time people in uniforms began hassling us about what we were doing there, and we saw one couple getting fined for some unknown infraction. We knew our time was up and left.

    In short, all components of the map were there except for the log. I believe the solution was essentially correct. The picture I have in my mind of what was originally there at the end was a log with a W carved into it and a tree hole containing something special, perhaps something braided. In any case, it appeared that someone else got there first, moved the cloth, and somehow disposed of the log. If I am correct, this person does not wish to be identified. My husband told me that I simply posted too much information last year and that someone thought it sounded reasonable, looked around the lake (there is not a lot of ground to cover), and found the log with the blaze.

    To summarize:

    WWWH is Glenwood Springs, CO

    HOB is Leadville, CO

    THE BLAZE was likely a W carved into a piece of wood, although a bird’s eye view of Hanging Lake (try out Google Earth), revealing a huge theta would be a good second candidate.

    I have my doubts about whether the chest itself was there, but I have no doubt that there was some kind of tangible reward waiting for the person whom solved the poem. Perhaps we’ll find out some day.


    I believe that TTOTC had two principal objectives. First, it was designed to motivate people to enjoy the extraordinary beauty of the Rocky Mountains and to share these experiences with loved ones. It was enormously successful in this regard, although in recent weeks I have had increasing concerns about overeager searchers getting hurt. The title of the book, as well as other elements of the poem, strongly hints that the treasure chest was a metaphor. I have no personal problem with this. Second, the poem pays homage to, at the very least: his father, his mother (all those twin allusions), Eric Sloane, Taos, and the natural beauty of the American West.

    On a more philosophical level, I think the poem was about wisdom in general, and the concept of benevolent guile in particular. It requires a lot of the former to successfully pull off the latter. Benevolent guile is a kind of generalization of a “white lie.” Someone may bend the truth a bit, or otherwise be manipulative, in order to achieve a good result. The best benevolent guile goes unnoticed forever. The character Professor Marvel in the movie The Wizard of Oz epitomizes this concept. His alter ego, the Wizard of Oz, engages in a less positive form of deception. The age-old symbol for wisdom is the owl, and there are owls, and allusions to owls, everywhere in the poem. The puzzle ends with two Os, which look like owl eyes. The colophon is composed of two omegas. Omega literally translates to “great O,” so the colophon is equivalent to OO. The colophon also looks like two owls sitting side by side.

    By the way, a number of Forrest’s extra hints concealed two Os in plain sight:

    Old Outhouses
    Not in IdahO Or Utah
    ToledO Ohio.

    Please forgive me for the length of this post, but that should be the last one of this kind. If you have questions I will try to answer them!



    • Liz, you put a lot of work into your solution and I suspect you are disappointed in not finding the chest. However, I’m really curious and baffled on how you arrived at the conclusion that your solution MUST be correct even though you did not find a chest or have any reason to believe that anyone found it at your spot before you did. Isn’t it more likely that your solution was not the right one after all or have you completely rejected that possibility? There are a number of people who have made similar claims and I find it really interesting that searchers are so ready to rule out the fallibility of their solutions. What gives?

      • That is a perfectly fair question. I’m very confident that the solve is correct for two reasons. First, the way the first letters of the nine clues yield three convincing confirmers. Secondly, and more importantly, I found precisely what the clues described. I was looking for a gravel path ten paces long going to the east and I found it, and I was looking for a blue cloth and I found that too. I spent several days hiking out west in the late spring, and that is the only blue cloth I ever came upon. I do not think it was a coincidence.

        • Thanks for your response. Your conviction in your “solve” reminds me of Pam who posted earlier this year and was equally adamant in her conclusions. Even though I don’t believe that you or Pam have solved this “chase”, you both have been helpful by prompting me to examine where I may be as intransigent in my own views. The downside to you and Pam claiming that this chase has been solved is the strong possibility that some searchers will be dissuaded from pursuing a search and finding the treasure for them selves. That is very sad indeed.

    • Liz,

      You have put a lot of time and thought into your clues. But if I may… [ Paraphrasing ] FF didn’t care if the trove was found 100 or 1000 years from now. With that said, wouldn’t some of your 9 clues possibly become different names or even removed from there spot? Such as a Route number or roadway. In my life time I have seen names of creeks change as well as altered from their flow.

      Unless Fenn wanted the trove found soon after hiding { which he indicated he did not ]. considering “Names” For clues can be a tough call to make.
      IMO. If a person 100 years from, found the poem, Names of some of your clues may not even exist anymore. Just a thought.

      • Seeker-

        I don’t believe that Forrest expected all nine clues to remain unchanged for centuries, and almost all locations have names which can change over time.

    • Liz, I Dont really think this is the solution, but I really do want to follow your path (and thinking) for the fun of it. Its Great. Thanks.

      Also, Danny seems to think solves should be sent to Mr. Fenn for some kind of confirmation or debunktion… I don’t think that was ever acknowledged anywhere. Am I wrong?

      • Old Shadows-

        I agree with you. If someone had hypothetically sent a perfectly crafted solution of the poem to Forrest, I do not think Forrest would have acknowledged this. I feel strongly that he always fully expected someone to not only decipher the nine clues, but to make the climb. It is not an easy one for older folks like me.

      • I didn’t mean to suggest they all HAVE to be sent to forrest, or that one should even expect a reply.
        But obviously he has put his email out there, so I was suggesting that if I had a complete solve that I could go no further with for whatever reason, I would email it to see what reply, if any, was forthcoming, and as such was suggesting Eliza do the same

        • Danny-boy-

          When you first brought this up I replied that I did not email Forrest asking whether or not my solution was correct. Strictly speaking, that is a true statement.

          At one point, however, I did send him my solution to the poem, believing it was correct for the reasons I have given elsewhere, because I was very concerned about my physical ability to handle the climb. I hoped that solving the poem would be enough for him.

          While he has politely responded in the past to other emails from me in the same way he has responded to those from others, with a short thank you but nothing substantial, in this case he did not respond at all.

          I decided that one possibility was that doing the climb was mandatory and that he expected us all to know that without being told so. So I exercised for several months and struggled through the climb. I found what I described and shared my experience in detail with Forrest in an email. When we reached the dead-end at the blue cloth my husband told me bluntly that I had posted too much the year before by identifying Hanging Lake as well as by describing the basic technique for extracting clues. My husband is a wise man, and in my email to Forrest I apologized if my earlier posts had reflected poor judgement. He did not respond.

          The fact that we found the blue cloth, but to the south of the gravel path rather than the north, still leads me to believe that someone got there first. Only that person and Forrest know for sure.

          • Eliza, I don’t think you need to beat yourself up about sharing clues last year or for not finding the chest. You made a great attempt working on your clues, preparing for the hike and making the search. I think you will encourage others to pursue their solves and I hope that provides you will a sense of satisfaction. Thousands of people visit that little lake every year and I imagine they drop all kinds of stuff so I don’t think the blue cloth is a reliable confirmation of your solve. It also seems implausible that Forrest would select that spot as a final resting spot given the number of people swarming around and the fact that the “powers that be” prohibit swimming and fishing there. Even though the chest may be discovered in a well traveled area I doubt it will be quite as accessible or accidentally discoverable as you seem to present. Finally, I’m not surprised that you didn’t get a response to you email to Forrest. I imagine he has received thousands of potential solutions and I have not heard of one instance where he has said “that’s right” or “that wrong” in an unambiguous way. The responses are usually “sorry you didn’t find it”. Since you hadn’t searched when you sent the email what did you expect him to respond? Why would he tell you not to go out and look when that is the whole purpose of this chase? In your case you got into shape and made a hike that was a real challenge for you. That’s great! I hope that has given you a thrill and provides enough satisfaction to you that overshadows your disappointment in not finding the chest.

          • Thank you for your thoughtful words Raven. I can’t argue with most of what you’ve written, but would make two points.

            First, while I knew it was a long shot, I thought that if I provided him with an accurate and complete solve by email, Forrest might spare me the climb. In retrospect that was clearly not realistic.

            Regarding the spot, I can’t quite agree. The place to which the gravel path leads is quite secluded and is not visible from the boardwalk bordering the lake. The footing on the path is awkward and one has to dodge a number of low-hanging branches to traverse it, so it is not a natural path to follow. Once we arrived at the end of the gravel, we did not see any litter or left-behind items other than the single blue cloth. Since that was what we were looking for, we had a clear sense that we were in the right place.

            Time will tell, or, then again, it might not.


          • Eliza,

            I mean no negativity regarding my commit, but I believe that you and many others are clearly in the here and now. Many have come up with solutions that clearly can not survive time. Time is the major component in Fenn’s treasure hunt.

            I read one of his comments, where he was asked how he would feel if the chest were to be found while he was still alive. His response was that he would be disappointed (or words to that effect).

            The only element of your solution that comes into question (as others have noted), is the blue cloth. It just wouldn’t survive the test of time. Other then that, you could have as good a solution as many others have had.

            That said, I wish you luck and don’t look at this as a failure, just as another place that the chest wouldn’t be.

    • Hanging Lake is breathtakingly beautiful. You at long last wrote one sentence I could agree with.

    • Hello, Liz. I love your concept of “benevolent guile” and my mind went to two things.

      Firstly, I’m sure there are a great many people who don’t have a clue who Forrest really is or what he’s trying to accomplish with The Chase. He mentioned himself that it’s not who you really are it’s who they THINK you are. Forrest seems like a very likeable person to me, and most people who have ever met him face-to-face have come away with the same conclusion. Perhaps Forrest can be described like this:


      Secondly, there are others in this world with ulterior motives which are NOT benevolent. They can best be classified under the term “malevolent guile”. Perhaps those people and their daily “to-do” list can best be described like this:

      1) Buy sword
      2) Name it Kindness
      3) Kill people with Kindness

    • The title of the book, as well as other elements of the poem, strongly hints that the treasure chest was a metaphor. I have no personal problem with this.

      if it came out the treasure was not really hidden, you would have no personal problem with that?

      wow. hearing people say that just makes me sad

      • Chris-

        Think back to the ending of the Wizard of Oz. the Cowardly Lion, the Scarecrow, and the Tin Man didn’t get exactly what they were promised by the Wizard, but they didn’t leave empty handed either.

        Forrest wrote in the first book that he Googled the location of his father’s grave. That is crazy and it never happened. We are supposed to be smart enough to figure that out. I’ve always felt the same way about the idea of stashing a couple of million dollars worth of gold and jewelry in the great outdoors somewhere.

        If anyone ever completes the chase to Forrest’s satisfaction, I’m willing to bet that they won’t be disappointed with how he deals with them.

        P.S. Chris. You were the one who came up with 107 degrees W and you were correct. Do you buy the up and down 4 Ds = 40 N in the last stanza? 107W, 40N is where Hanging Lake is using the nearest whole number for each.

        • You get “north” from the n in “listen” and the “orth” in “worth.” The two words are obviously close neighbors.


        • …then I hope at least it brings a smile in one of your dreams.

          This line from the opening of TTOTC I think hints at one way you can pull the degrees.
          Use “smile” and “dreams”, and it will give you 107. It will give you lat degrees as well. I don’t think it is 40, or is related to 4 Ds.

          I do think Forrest googled his father. Details are important and maybe you think he didn’t because you are getting the details wrong

          TTOTC doesn’t say that Forrest googled the location of his father’s grave, as if he needed to know that. It says when I looked him up on Google I discovered … .

          he was just looking him up on google, and he discovered that the only thing about his father he could find was where he was buried, and as TTOTC says, ..and that’s about it.

          So the point was his father molded many lives and made a far-reaching impact, yet that’s all that history remembers of him online, where he is buried.

          • “Yet when I looked him up on Google I discovered that he’s buried alongside my mother in row 4 of block 23 at the Hillcrest Cemetery..”

            This is an exact quote Chris. It never happened.

            It’s really about the 4 (lines to make a W) and the 23 (rd letter of the alphabet) and the picture on page 146 of the man with the ax. There are 23 stumps. He is gazing at a wax..ing moon. WAX – AX is W, the blaze.

            If you think of the words of the poem as pieces of wood, the primary technique for generating clues is chopping off the ends of nearby pieces and reassembling them.

          • Very imaginative solve, that’s for sure! It seems much too complicated to be anything Forrest would come up with as he has told us on more than one occasion that he is a simple man and that cyphers are not needed. But regardless of your convoluted solve, it’s too bad you didn’t find it and put everyone out of their misery. 🙂 I won’t believe the treasure’s been found or moved by anyone until I hear it from Forrest so maybe it’s time for him to chime in again. Dal, can you ask Forrest again if the treasure has been found?

          • Liz, I agree with Chris here: the burden of proof is fully on you to establish why FF either didn’t a) find that info in an Internet search. Or b) never searched.

            Both findagrave.com (c.1995) and usgwarchives.net (originally a US Gen Web FTP site under the Gumby directory, c.1997) were in operation years and years ago.
            Fwiw, I searched WM Fenn when I read the book and indeed the first result was findagrave.com. ( I suspect he searched via EarthLink rather than literally Google, but haven’t a clue how to prove it without being his actual ISP).
            Regardless, the Data’s been in both places for years before TTOTC book came out. FWIW The Fenn’s are buried in the same row/block as the Worden, Raska, McGuire & Hillman families’ plots.
            Given this data, it’s obvious … (Unless you’ve been to Hillcrest and somehow found no physical graves…)

          • Liz:
            ah, I think I see the issue. section 5W (or SW, really?) is where you find row 4 block 23. I’ll email the GenWeb admins for confirmation. How’s about you call Hillcrest, & we both report back here?

          • I am the first to admit that there’s an obvious discrepancy between the complexity of my proposed solve and Forrest’s description of what was needed to crack the poem. Forrest is better than just about anybody at identifying wonderful art, and wonderful artists. That’s one reason why he is so rich. Picasso once famously said the good artists copy, but great artists steal. If Forrest was the architect of the poem, then, at the very least, he carefully studied the work of the greatest word puzzle designer who ever lived and brilliantly emulated him.

            I also agree that no one should believe that this is over until Forrest says so. On the other hand, thinking back to the end of It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, it would make me smile if the puzzle indeed ended with a Big W.

          • I see it now. You and Chris are correct. I misread the line in the book; he was simply saying that this was all he could find online about his father, not that he was discovering it for the first time.

        • You made this error in one of your earlier posts and I feel compelled to address it because I think it illustrates how your analysis is flawed. You wrote the following: “Forrest wrote in the first book that he Googled the location of his father’s grave. That is crazy and it never happened.” You not only misquoted Forrest’s statement but completely missed the obvious meaning of what he was saying. The actual quote from page 146 is as follows:

          ” His name was William Marvin Fenn. He molded so many lives and made such a huge and far-reaching impact on the local society that I was sure everyone would remember him forever. Yet when I looked him up on Google I discovered that he’s buried alongside my mother in row 4 of block 23 at the Hillcrest Cemetery, and that’s about it….”

          First of all, I am not a bit surprised that Forrest would have Googled his father who he loved, respected, and cherished. I have Googled my loved ones too, and am surprised that anyone would find that to be “crazy”. As far as the meaning of his statement, he clearly was touching on the transience of life, and was expressing sadness on how his beloved fathers life was reduced to a mere reference to a spot in a cemetery much like the soldier he briefly met when he found the gravestone in the grass in Vietnam. The profound thoughts and emotions expressed in that passage, the passage on the soldiers grave in Vietnam, and the story of his flight over Philly is of paramount importance in understanding not only this man and this chase, but also life itself. It is similar to the poem that sits on my desk as I write this. It is by Emily Dickinson. It goes:

          This quiet dust was gentlemen and ladies
          And lads and girls,
          Was Laughter and ability and sighing,
          And frocks and curls;
          This passive place a summer’s nimble mansion,
          Where bloom and bees
          Fulfilled their oriental circuit,
          Then ceased like these.

          • Raven-

            As i noted above, I now see that I read this passage in the book incorrectly. I was thrown off by the word “discover” and what I thought was the deliberate inclusion of the 4 and the 23. I still think the last part might be on target. In any case I’m sorry about the error.

            I still stand by the rest of what I’ve posted.


      • i found an owl carved into a tree, off of a trail. i photographed it. But there was snow all over the place. And our feet were numb. and the area didn’t seem right, although I bought my ticket out west for that theory. You can’t post pictures here, right?

        • I think people are being had by these marks on trees. I’ve been seeing especially in this past year….many “blazes” that say Owl and FF that are obviously FRESH. I seriously have seen at least a half dozen.

          Would he really put a blaze on a tree like that if he thought of everything? What if the tree died or someone scraped it off? What if there was a fire? It doesn’t make sense that the blaze would be on a tree and he had to have thought that people would do things like that anyway.

          If you ask me, it’s going to be something like an aluminum marker like he talks about in his book or it will be something carved into a rock like the Indians would do.

          • I believe that now- this was back in April. The odd thing about this particular tree was there was a tree with an X on it on the trail- so we peered behind it (west). And ? feet directly back there was a tree carved out in the 40’s or 50’s. – it was dated, said Texas, with a large owl. and like i said, it just didn’t feel right. And I’d be an idiot to think I actually solved this thing. Yet it’s the solving that truly intrigues me.

            I think the blaze might be a kite informed by the poem, both simply and complicatedly. The string actually ends directly above “to the gold.” This theory I’m really trying to put to rest, but I just can’t do it.

          • Stephanie,

            I already ask Forrest if the aluminum marker had any impact on his writing of the poem….his answer was “No”.

          • GG,
            Would you mind posting the exact email exchange? Context is very important and that would avoid misinterpretation.
            The Wolf

          • Interesting gg. I would think the blaze is something that would blend in that we would know if we saw it that it was his. I think I’d be a little disappointed if it was just a mark on a tree. I mean he’s been pretty admit all along that he designed this to last. So I don’t think it’s something that fragile. In my romantic whimsy way of thinking…it would be the double omega carved into a stone(ok, if I start seeing these all over the West, I’ll never blog again LOL)….or even better like I’ve used before….something like a stop sign at a dead end(he has a lot of dead in his book and thought that a dead end might be a stop/halt that would always be there no matter what). I guess the aluminum marker would be a stop sign…but it also would be similar to the beginning(wwwHALT), but look different.

          • Wolf,

            The exact words were “I would hope the treasure falls into the hands of someone who will appreciate and tell the complete story and not just the adventure of their search.

            Like the words written on the aluminum plate over that French soldiers grave you stumbled upon in Vietnam, I know the words you leave on your “blaze” will be just as thought provoking.

            The only question I would ask, did that grave give you the idea behind your “Thrill of the Chase”. I see this as a non-clue question and hope that you can answer it.”

          • GG,
            lol I could have guess that part. I was referring to the exact wording of your question.

          • Wolf

            My question was “The only question I would ask, did that grave give you the idea behind your Thrill of the Chase. I see this as a non-clue question and hope that you can answer it”.

            That is the exact question. No edits involved.

          • GG,
            Thanks for providing the details of your question. My question to you is what if FF didn’t actually leave/write the words on his blaze? Does that alter things?

            The Wolf

          • Wolf

            That depends, doesn’t it. Find the blaze and look quickly down at an epitaph. The chest is a part of him, isn’t it? To include an epitaph would seem reasonable to a man that feels certain the chest won’t be found in his lifetime.

            But, I guess it depends on how each person reads the poem. Given his remark about Frenchie, I doubt that is the case. And no, it really wouldn’t have any impact on the overall solution.

          • Wolf he does quote his own question in the comment above the last one.

            To me, this doesn’t mean it can’t be a stop sign or some other type of metal marker. He’s only saying that when he came across the marker, it did not give him the idea. It could though have been something he remembered when trying to figure out what type of blaze to mark the chest with I think from the way I read that.

          • “The only question I would ask, did that grave give you the idea behind your “Thrill of the Chase”. I see this as a non-clue question and hope that you can answer it.”-GG

            You led the question with the assumption that it was a non-clue question. What if it actually is clue question? How would you expect FF to answer that question?

            a) “Yes GG it actually was the influence behind my TOTTC”
            b) ” NO GG (because you deserve an answer)”
            c) You fill in the blank.

            The Wolf

          • Wolf,

            I see the answer for what it was meant to be, a simple yes or no. Nothing more. Why make a big deal about it? We know it is a non-clue, leave it at that. I’m not about to question Forrest’s intent in responding to a simple email.

          • GG,
            I guess the point I was trying to make is that your initial response to Stephanie was different than your actual question to FF. No big deal now since she has picked up on that.
            The Wolf

    • @Eliza, your solve is an enjoyable read and your effort worthy of the gold.

      Given the frequency of OO’s in the poem and your ref. to finding TAOs in the poem, did you consider the twin for Taos is “AT O’s” … at the double OO’s ? The owl references may also be a tie in to horned owl habitat.

      Your clever mind far exceeds my abilities…but I too believe there are twins in the poem and several major anagram confirmations to the general location. Gravel maze is one I had Wondered about but hope to confirm on my next search as well as a large visual ‘WM’ tribute to Forrest’s father. I don’t search Colorado but have come to the conclusion Forrest designed and constructed his poem to fit perfectly in many states and locations – which is both beauty and the beast!! My best to you Liz.

      • Sissel hit it right on the head. Designed to fit many possible locations .
        I too see parts picked from so many different puzzles.

        Eliza, you have a wonderful search story. Don’t let people nit pick it to death.

        EVERYONE knows where it is, until they don’t find it.

        You were brave and I appreciate what you have done. 🙂

      • Thanks Sissel. I hadn’t thought about rearranging TAOS that way but it makes a lot of sense. At the end of the puzzle, you reach the colophon, the double O’s, the owl’s eyes. The double Os are truly in the wOOd. And now, at the end, as you point out, you are AT O’S. I like it!

        • Liz, somehow I’m certain your quick mind has considered all possibilities.
          As much as I hope to find OO carved in the wood near my gravel maze, I’ve been most humbled in my last ground searches. Always believing I’m in the right place, but near impossible in the past to isolate the exact the location. Question for you regarding ‘gravel path 10 paces east’ – did you follow those instructions after completing your entire gravel maze, or somewhere mid point? my solve is similar, but not nearly as confident as you. In this chase I have been genuinely humbled by my own mistakes, desires, and human frailty. I hope Forrest is at least pleased with that transformation 🙂

        • Eliza,

          Another possible meaning for the double omegas.

          Two definitions for omega. First definition is “Great O”. Second is “The end”. Combined as a hint: (G)reat (O). Double Omegas = 2. The End. Put them together you have “Go 2 the end”, or simply “go to the end”..

          I remembered using this in one of my earlier solutions. I’m glad to share it now.

          • geermanguy-

            I like that!

            Regarding endings, my husband feels strongly that it would be wise for me to leave all of this behind now. He is a physicist and he is Chinese, and he shared two thoughts with me today.

            First, he reminded me of the famous story about a physicist named Wolfgang Pauli, who, criticizing another colleague with as much scorn as he could muster, said “Not only isn’t this right, it isn’t even wrong.” In his soft, loving voice he told me that, however the dust settles, my solve was never that bad.

            He then told me of a phrase in Chinese, which sounds like “fung shia.” It literally means “put it down,” but on a deeper level is an instruction to let something go, to put it behind you. I think that now I have posted everything I think I know about the poem, I can do that.

            In physics, sometimes, but not always, one is led to the truth because it is beautiful. I wound up with the poem where I did because I sensed that its designer shared this value.


          • Eliza,

            “If you shoot for the stars and hit the moon, it’s OK. But you’ve got to shoot for something. A lot of people don’t even shoot.”


        • Hi Sally, the gravel maze that both Eliza and I referred to is simply a twin anagram or rearranging of the letters found in marvel gaze. Please note, this is conjecture on my part and Mr Fenn does not mention it.

    • p.s. please post a link to your earlier solves of first few clues, cant find anywhere..ta.

      • Danny-boy

        I did not email Forrest asking whether or not this was correct.

        The other clue solutions are on this thread, but the tend to get scattered about and I don’t know how to provide a specific link. If you scroll to the top and then about 20% down, most of my posts are in that area. It should not take long to find them. If you have a specific question about a clue, let me know!

        • I have scrolled and located them thanks.
          You’ve got to email f with a credible and complete solve that well thought through, even though his answer may be cryptic he would let you know if you are/were on the right track…plus put us wonderers out of our misery!

          • Actually he wouldn’t let you know ANYTHING. Trust me. I’ve emailed him with a dozen different locations over the past few months. I think I have kept him pretty amused…

  76. We did find a blue cloth and took a picture of it as well as of the rocky path. I suppose I could send them to Dal so he could post them, but I don’t think they would add much.

  77. Where would the cloth be in 1000 years. Did you have to find the cloth to find the chest?

  78. The azure cloth is the seventh of the nine clues. I would think it needs to be in the correct place to find the owl nook. I do not know how long the cloth would last outside, but I would take Forrest’s comments about a 1000 year search with a large grain of salt.

  79. I’m a gold digger 🙂

    Left Colorado last night pulled over and rested got 5 hours away from where I search and now have turned around to go back almost back to location
    This is the thrill of a chase lol
    Had other thoughts I feel like it all makes since now
    I’m going up the creek I’m taking a right and not a left 🙂 !!!!!!

    • i dont know whether Forrest said that, or more specifically, i could search all day, and i dont think i would find a reliable source for that statement

      what i can tell you is that in a recent scrapbook, Forrest said using a map would be a good research tool (apologies if you already know that)

      i have a question also. it has been suggested that Forrest said this ….

      “I hid my treasure chest on the moon, approximately 239,000 miles from the earth, so it is going to be very difficult to find”

      dont ask me who suggested it, because i dont remember, but whoever it was, they did suggest that Forrest may have said this

      my question is, did Forrest actually say this? does anyone know? just curious, i guess.

      • Hey Chris,

        I asked Forrest about the map and his answer is:

        “You don’t need a map if you can figure the clues without it”

        • Evil Dick

          that is the perfect Forrest response

          next he will probably say you don’t need the clues if you can find the chest without them

          • Ah, but IMO it IS instructive: taken at his word, it rules out one kind of solve: piecing together the clues to create a GPS or lat./long. coordinate or other map-dependent solution/location. In other words, if you know the area, the details on a map won’t matter. The map might help you figure the clues, but not the inverse.
            That’s a cool clue /hint IMO.

          • Chris, Evil…..Forrest is right, you don’t need a map to find the TC. In my solve you really don’t need a map; although I did use one for confirmation. IMHO, the clues will lead you there.

      • Hello Chris, It’s been a while since we talked. It’s always good to see your contributions The Chase.

        That’s funny that someone would even think that the TC is on the moon. How absurd! To think that someone would even be able to stand on the moon to look for it…sheesh…and talk about a horrible return on investment even if you could.

        I can see how someone might get that idea, though. The moon is a very peaceful place, I imagine. At the end of Forrest’s book “the moon” is the only place the dove could find to nest (find peace) after all the trees were cut down. So, there’s that…

        But!…there’s always a big BUT!…a person never looks quickly down to see the moon…unless you’re talking about a childish prank. 🙂

          • Specialklr, I don’t know if Chris came to that conclusion. He can answer that. I gather he knows “somebody” that thought that at one time…maybe a friend of his or something. Maybe his friend was theorizing and drawing his (her?) ideas on a large dry-erase board and was overtaken by a cloud of dry-erase marker fumes. I don’t know. 🙂

        • @JC1117 sounds like the butt of a plumbing joke. Is Forrest still having plumbing problems with hot/cold water? It’s too early in the day to circulate the community botttle of Extra Strenght Tylenol:-) again.

        • JC117

          there is a ‘but’ right before you take the chest in the poem

          if f says to take a flashlight, prolly best to bring a mirror and use both hands as well

          • My only moon solve was that I thought the boy was enchanted by the moon. So it sent me to the Enchanted Moon RV park near Taos. He drank so much Tea…I thought Tea was T….if you go up to the top of the road by the RV park, there is a Golf Course with a WARM swimming pool. Made the solve work going to the park. I looked under the giant wagon like he was laying down….only thing was…I went there when there was like 4 feet of snow lol. I thought it could have been up under the rafters. That was BS (before structure lol).

            Ok, off topic story….we were looking for property a long time ago and our cell phones wouldn’t get a signal back in the wisconsin boonies. My husband yells out…that’s BS as if the phone company could hear him.

            My then 4 year old son pipes up in the backseat…I KNOW WHAT BS means…..my husband and I just look at each other with the look of parent of the year just slipping from our grasps….

            Ryan says…..Bad Service!


          • That’s funny, Stephanie. I think most parents have a “scare” when their little ones say words that the parents SWEAR they have no idea where they learned those words. 🙂 (I’m whistling and looking at the ceiling right now.)

            And, Chris, regarding your comment, “there is a ‘but’ right before you take the chest in the poem”, I am thinking of the map on TFTW and Mattthew 6:21.

          • @JC1117 Matt 6:21 is perfect reading for all in this chase. As with all texts, its best understood reading the pre and post texts to understand the context. My tears have cleared logs from my eyes this week and you are correct… Where your heart is , there will be your treasure… God, family, love, integrity, peace… not money, gold, adventure (although those may also be used to His glory, if ours does not get in the way)

          • Hello Chris, I have many ideas what the blaze is or could be. A blaze can be many things which fill the entire spectrum from absolute darkness to the brightest light and everything in between…as everything has it’s opposite. On the one end is some of the “pre text” to Matthew 6:21 found in Matthew 5:16. Every now and then I try to feel that blaze by looking quickly up…sometimes with sadness and desperation…and other times with gladness and thanksgiving.

          • Hello JC1117, keep walking in That Light. The Blaze of brilliant light reveals all in its purest, truest state nurturing fellowship between humans & respect for all creatures great and small.

          • Dear god, how do you get logs in your eyes. I got a bug stuck in my eye before, and a burning spark from a match ,but a log? That must smart.

  80. I do think the moon may play a role in finding the blaze dont ask me how that works… think in black and white 🙂

  81. Black and white was a clue to being in writing. F mentions moons in his books in illustrative ways…out house – smell- skunk – take the train of thought in a circle. Everything works when your in the loop. Wow its a fun ride……… 🙂

        • Chris-
          We already know from Forrest that CE5 is a cost code put there when he purchased the chest. He told us it will not help to locate the chest. Forrest marks many of the items in his collection with a cost code of letters and numbers.

          • wow! I am so out of date on this!! All of the discussions on what CE5 were for the longest time were just a waste of time and space to finally have the truth of what CE5 is would have saved a whole lotta typing!! LOL OM GAWD!!

  82. An inspiration for those who read the clues wrong (this includes me), you can still find the treasure! (from a blog post):

    Here’s the original (I think) of that story, from Bernard Fergusson’s “The Wild Green Earth” (1946):

    Success in map-reading depends largely on confidence in one’s own ability to read it. The results of such confidence are often surprising. There is a tale of a Gurkha, captured by the Japs in the fighting around Imphal, who managed to escape and make his way to the British positions. He was asked how he found his way. “Quite easy,” he said. “I had a compass, and I had a map”; and he pointed out on his tattered map exactly how he had come. Here was this track; here was that nullah; he had dodged around the Japs here, and nearly been caught by a patrol there. The whole story was convincing; the only surprising part of it was that the map was a London street map, torn out of an old A.A. book; but a little thing like that had not daunted the Gurkha in any way at all. He had a map and a compass, and confidence in how to use both.

  83. Nah, don’t need a map to solve this puzzle, or a sand-witch, or a flashlight, those are all, ‘boots on the ground’ contrivances. Just sitting in a comfortable chair in front of my laptop chanting my poem mantra should do the trick. LOL

  84. Oh my goodness. In my research, I *think* I’ve discovered something really important. I don’t think its been mentioned before, but if someone who has been following the blog all along and IS NOT going to search before September 4th can email me so I can run it by for confirmation that it hasn’t been searched (as far as we know, anyway), I would really appreciate it! It answers the question about beer and ziplock bags, too. mindyfausey@yahoo.com

  85. Eliza , et al, Ok, I’ll bite…… how did an ‘azure cloth” emerge from the poem? I’ve surface-skipped on those comments that analyze alpha-numeric letter counts and placements because ff said there were no anagrams, ciphers, etc. But there has been so much discussion about that ‘blue cloth’, I’d really like to know how it was deduced, Induced? Reduced? Produced? Just curious.

    I’m on to a new solve… this time I have an HOB, and I am finding the old comments in my notes about poetry are becoming more poignant than they were a couple years ago. Amazing how info becomes more a pyramid than a line.

    But Im still curious how was ‘blue cloth’ was derived? Cloth seems so utterly impractical for a 4 year blaze much less a 1000 year blaze…. unless it was really a cloak, a garment of Mother Nature’s.

    • @Old Shadows – curious myself Nature’s blue cloak.. what do you think…field of flowers lovely blue?

      @Amy S. – Do you have a description or photo to share of your scary tree?

      @Anyone – why are we discussing the headless body mystery of Arthur Manby?

      Lots of oddities tonight!

  86. Checking back in after spending some time on the road (not looking – unfortunately, but work). Anyway, I took a look at http://www.wherewarmwatershalt.com and saw a change . . . those four boxes now have numbers (when you move your mouse over them). Any ideas on what they mean? Probably more gibberish.

    • That is one of the more curiouser web sites I’ve seen. Yes, it has changed.
      I’ve tried everything I know to investigate it.
      Maybe some of our computer wizzes can figure out something. I don’t believe it is connected with ff’s b-day. But odd that it calls itself “where warm waters halt”.

      • Me too (checked it out), and as Clayton pointed out – it is registered through a company in AZ, but I think that is just the ‘hosting’ company . . . not the owner/designer of the website. I did notice (on the website) what looks to be a ‘CE5’ in the clouds (upper right area), so perhaps this website has something to do with the Chase.

      • Google the Pilots Alphabet … First word was Yankee. I couldn’t understand her enunciation either & I used to fly VFR (visual flight rules)

        • Wwwh.com. = It’s a rabbit hole not worth all this speculation.
          Re: Site owner: Shared host IP is based in culver city CA.– 63 other websites share it, so IP tracking is t worth much.
          Registration isn’t from Wild West domains: that’s just another name for ISP/host goDaddy. The actual Registrant is private.
          They’ve also registered an official number with Alexa, which is an unusual move for just a blog. This means they’re either needing to justify costs to someone, or planning to be competitive with page hits.
          I like to ask Why.
          The data can tell a story:

          The beginning script is Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, followed by A LOT of other NATO phonetic codes. The track goes for about 3:15. See also disk 1, track 4 I think of “the Conet Project”.
          YHF is an album by Wilco named after a actual historic post-WWI ‘numbers station’ recording of what was believed to be a spy message. It is this exact pre-ff message playing in the background of that website. So no, there’s no secret message by FF embedded in the woman’s words — just a glimpse of shortwave radio history.
          The telegraph/morse code is another matter; that’s been laid in on top of the original recording (compiled by UK’s Akin Fernandez, fwiw) While I suspect that the morse code is a historic piece too, I’m not quite sure what it says. Anyone help on that??

          Do a Ctrl + U there and you’ll see it’s a site gearing up for a WordPress blog/comments section, as well as an e-commerce section to sell you a portfolio of stuff.

          In short, it’s not mysterious, devious, extraordinary, nor hint-giving:
          it’s just plain old marketing.

          My guess is, it’s tied to one of the proposed ThrillofTheChase cable shows

          • I’ll take your word for it Map, its gibberish to me. Got 8 YHF’s, then “Group 10”, then 50 letters – last one was C. (may have counted wrong)… but there was an HOB in the middle so I thought maybe it was scant possibility there was code talk about the chase blogs. This is for the criptologists.

            You’re so on top, do you work at/for The Farm? I dont know if they still call it that. Guess I shouldnt even ask.

          • The description of the webpage is:
            “Do you hear my signals…? Please acknowledge with receipt on . . .”

            The count down timer is set for 1615 local time of the computer’s time zone on 15 Aug 2015. So someone in Chicago will see it before someone in Seattle (thats right Stephanie you can finally beat Dal at something!!!).

            When it goes to zero and nothing happens after that as far as the webpage is programmed.

            The letters YHF could mean anything, could be a key or just stand for “You hear Fenn”.

            The next statement is Group 0 and under the text is the following in the phonetic alphabet:


            So all you code cyphers out there – fill your boots.

            The Wolf

          • Mapsmith is correct. You can read about this here:


            In military time, the countdown clock ends at August 15, 2015 at 15:15 hours in the Mountain Time Zone, where the treasure is presumably hidden. This could be written out as:


            Equating numbers to letters gives you:

            H O O O O.

            Think owls and double Os!

            One last thought about the appearance of the 0822 on the website. My understanding is that Forrest’s true date of birth was August 22, 1930, so his upcoming birthday will be his 84th. His father died at 83, so this day may have some particular meaning for him.

          • well since this particular broadcast has been around a long time and the content has nothing to do with the chase

            and since it uses a one time pad encryption technique which is unbreakable

            i think ill pass

            doesnt mean that there isnt a hint or clue being handed to us on a silver platter here though.

            depends if you can see the forrest or if you are trying to hard to analyze the bark on the trees

          • Whoever did this web site is not up with the latest. Dal left a comment that Forrest had said that the CE5 was only his way of marking his items for sale and had nothing to do with the treasure.

            I never saw or heard that comment, but I’m sure Dal is right.

          • special-
            Not the for sale price. I don’t believe he ever intended to sell or trade that chest. He said he knew exactly what he was going to do with it when he bought it. The CE5 tells him how much he paid for it. Many of his items are marked in a code that tells him what the item cost him…not what he is asking if it were for sale.

    • Sidd, I’ve done some research on this weird web site. It is a countdown clock set to Aug. 15, 2015 at 16:15. And yes, that is an intentional “CE5” in the upper right. Not sure about the 0822 in the boxes. I’ve not written down the letters and numbers spoken.

      Sure is very strange.

        • Very Odd website indeed. This is a quote from when this site (Dal’s) announced Forrest new book Too Far To Walk: “Four months ago he told us he was going to cut back on email responses so he could devote more time to his new book. He promised he would have it finished by his birthday. It was finished early and is now in the bindery.” How early did he finish it?…one week before his birthday…. Could it be a count down lasting two years from the time Too Far To Walk was completed?

      • CE5? CE might mean C=3 and E=5 in alphabetical order. If you add those together you get 8. So, CE5 = 8 and 5…or 85. Forrest turns 85 on Aug. 22 2015…exactly one week after Aug. 15, 2015 as Specialklr noted.

  87. Headed back to Texas
    Of course we did not find the chest.
    But there is always a treasure.

    I have a question for Forrest ?

    So I have used my imigination
    Do I need to use it in a small way or have a big expanding way to far too walk imigination 🙂 !!!!!

    • I did go from one mountain to another thinking it would be his rainbow and what I seen is amazing and I took IT in the canyon down with me and up the other mountain 🙂 !!!!!

  88. Eliza said, “In physics, sometimes, but not always, one is led to the truth because it is beautiful. I wound up with the poem where I did because I sensed that its designer shared this value.”

    Eliza, that is very wise. You are correct about that. I have called it elegance. In trying to solve the puzzle you need to put it to the elegance test. The solution will have a beauty and an elegance and unity to it similar to a complex physics equation or a symphony. Looking for that will help solve it. I am sure it is there.

    IMO, of all the search stories and solutions I have seen, yours is the first that does in fact possess that quality.

    • Nicely said Jack,

      Is it possible the master of clever and unique writing had actually spent years on the poem to write in as many possibilities on complete purpose?

      Maybe he even HAD a few solves that only the best cipher master could solve? And Fenn did very well leave the blue cloth for the one who would crack this particular solve, being Liz of course. Leading her as many have been led to treasures, just not the treasure? Wwwhen this is all done, found, secured… it would not surprise me if Mr. Fenn presented some ‘honorable mention awards’ of some type.

      Eliza and MD, most creative… Dal/Stephanie most tenacious…


      • Here is an example of what I mean by elegance and what I think Eliza is referring to when she says being led to the truth because it is beautiful. This is from my own solution which I can’t yet totally reveal but it is a part that reveals the elegance I think the poem and solution possess. There are no codes or ciphers but there are hidden meanings that need to be “deciphered”.

        Why did he structure the poem to have 6 stanzas and 24 lines? 6/24 (June 24) is Midsummer’s Day which is celebrated with bonfires (blazes). Could the blaze be the sunrise on 6/24 at the correct location which casts a shadow (look quickly down)? Think of the heel stone at Stonehenge at sunrise on the summer solstice. The line that the sun rises and the shadow falls on 6/24 at the specific location will be same line on which the sun sets and the shadow falls at sunset on 12/24, but in the opposite direction ( a mirror image). The sun has risen and set on those dates and in this location at the same position for the last 1,000 years and will do so for the next 1,000 years. A permanent blaze which produces a shadow that leads to the treasure. You don’t have to be there on the specific date and time, you just need to know where the shadow falls, information that is easily found.

        12/24/1968 is the date that Forrest safely returned home from Vietnam. The date that his secret place in Vietnam kept it’s promise. The date that he returned to the place he began like the TS Eliot quote. His poem has 9 clues and 24 lines. The trail to the treasure is in stanzas 2,3 and 4. (2+3+4=9). 12/24 (1+2+2+4=9). 1968 (1+9+6+8=24).

        Sunset, 12/24, “the end is ever drawing nigh”, the end of the day and the end of the year and solar cycle. “Your effort will be worth the cold” – December.

        The TS Eliot quote is from “Little Gidding” which begins with a scene of the sun blazing at sunset on the winter solstice:

        Midwinter spring is its own season
        Sempiternal though sodden towards sundown,
        Suspended in time, between pole and tropic.
        When the short day is brightest, with frost and fire,
        The brief sun flames the ice, on pond and ditches,
        In windless cold that is the heart’s heat,
        Reflecting in a watery mirror
        A glare that is blindness in the early afternoon.
        And glow more intense than blaze of branch, or brazier,


        • Jack, I have often wondered WHEN it was placed. This is the best post I’ve seen to answer that question. I never quite thought of it this way.

          I agree on the requirement of an elegance factor on the solve.

        • You summed up where I’ve been for quite a while. That makes heavy loads and water high, and if you’ve been wise the most important clues, at this point for me. Yesterday I found a waterfall that is 250 degrees from a very interesting possibility. The ruler tool on GE is amazing. The more you learn about this deal the more important WWWH becomes. Also extremely important that FF was at the top of the waterfall in Vietnam where he tarried scant with marvel gaze.

          • @Kyote, on Sunday/Monday I will be trekking up a gravel maze to the top of a small waterfall with my son Mark. I’ve only been to the base in the past and hope the top yields a marvel gaze view of the Mountain I love. Once there, looking for those wise elusive OO’s hidden truly in the wood somewhere away from the main rocky trail; perhaps across the creek and thru the trees. And since I love those elegant solves, who knows, perhaps Forrest’s medal for Valor is displayed above the chest. (I finally understand the canasta/basket canyon connection someone went on a tangent about)

          • Best of luck, stay safe and enjoy. I might go tomorrow. Looking for some good maps my place is like a maze, might have to break down and get a GPS.

          • Right now I’m sitting in the doctors office getting a chemo infusion. There ought to be a country song about this ‘One Drip At A Time’

          • OMG Kyote! Best wishes with your chemo treatment! Our young 21 year old neighbor who had a big lymphoma under his sternum is now cancer free after his treatments so chances are much better now that chemo works! Forrest is living proof of successful treatments too. Forrest’s treasure hunt is a good way to distract yourself so keep researching and hunting!

          • Kyote – very sorry to hear you are going thru chemo. You will be in my prayers for restored health.

        • Jack,
          Elegant, clever, and timeless.

          Your waters run deep with complex currents. Mine are simply riffles which dance in the sun calling attention to the deeper waters. In other words, I’m only capable of much appreciation!

          • Thank you Sissel. Interesting that you use the word “timeless”. IMO Timelessness is the unifying theme in TTOTC, the poem, and therefore the solution to the hiding place. Think about the other works quoted in the book. Shakespeare, Khayyam, Mencken (from the tombstone inscription) and the general theme of individual lives and their place in the continuum of time, past, present, and future. The memoir and the hunt is Forrest’s statement of his place in that continuum. That is why it doesn’t matter to him if the treasure is found tomorrow or 10,000 years from tomorrow.

            Look at stanza 1:

            As I have gone alone in there
            And with my treasures bold, (PAST)
            I can keep my secret where, (PRESENT)
            And hint of riches new and old.

            Hint of riches new and old. The past and present (time) are unified (timelessness).

            “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.”

            He is working the aberrations at the edges of time and timelessness, time and eternity, past and present, living and dead.

            The hiding place will fit that theme. It will be timeless and elegant.

        • sure beats my assumption regarding your first truth-beauty reply to Eliza. Take an elegant bow Jack, you urn’ed it.

  89. Has anybody thought of the idea that all clues are one in the same? That is whys it is so important to find the first clue, and go from there. Han anybody found Arthur Manby’s gravesite yet? What does Arthur Manby have to do with Mr. Fenn’s treasure chest? Maybe that is a question to ask Mr. Fenn. Any thoughts anyone?

  90. Forrest

    Please don’t make me go in or around that tree.
    I think brave and in the wood is correct. 🙂

    You gatta be real brave 🙂

    Surely it cannot be there
    I may understand what cold is 🙂

    • I have said the same thing after boots on the ground. And even though we may not be in the same spot, I think you are right and not alone Amy. He didn’t want any mamby pamby to find it. 🙂

      • No, I think he wanted a child to find it. Do they divide kids up into Mamby Pamby and Rambo classes now ? Its funny what we read into our own versions of the chase. 🙂

      • This is why forrest laughed and said to himself did I really just of that 🙂

        Pretty funny
        You have to be brave brave

        Thanks Inthecgaseto 🙂 !!!!!!!

  91. If where warm waters halt is Forrest’s “birth” day, maybe I’m right about where warm waters halt. Lol. Not holding my breath on that one because I’m learning more things as I research, such as the insane amount of references to crosses hidden all through his books (crosses aren’t always as they appear to us in our country and time)…

    • Mindy, if crosses were important to Forrest when he wrote the books, he may have two birth dates in mind, natural and spiritual.
      An X is a form of a cross. Crosses are an ancient symbol of death for the condemned, but a hopeful filled reminder to all that Christ took the place of sinners on a Xcross, dying in our stead, that we might live forgiven forever.
      For a “Collector” you could say Christ made the great Trade – his life exchanged for ours.

        • I believe, too. I also believe that when wise men looked up, what they saw looked a lot like a cross. 🙂

        • Hey Windsurfer, you encouraged me to hike to the top of the falls in my search area. Did it today… (12 miles) steep climb up a gravel maze to a marvel gaze waterfall which could be a blaze. No tc there or anywhere in my search area. Absolutely done searching for Forrest’s treasure. 3 trips and 9 days on site; 6 months of daily research. DONE!!! Did see a bull moose, and enjoy wild huckleberries all day with my 19 yr. old son. He was amazed his old mom could still hike steep mountains into the wilderness, so maybe all is not lost.

          Hang in there with your search. Would sure be nice to see someone find it.

          • Nor –

            Sorry to hear that your hunt is done. Maybe you’ll change your mind along the way. 12 miles – steep climb – wow.

            Since you have been out in the field – perhaps you didn’t hear FF’s latest quip to a reporter – that people have been within 200 feet of the TC. He learned of this in an e-mail – so it is likely a searcher.

          • Do we know ff even said that? The same article says he “buried” it “earlier that year” as described in “Thrill of the Hunt”. Unless ff wrote another memoir and decided to say buried and when, this reporter is a little sloppy on facts. Maybe “2” and “5” are too close together on a keyboard. Or 500 sounds too far to walk. IMHO.

          • Hey Nor,

            Wow! Your last quest certainly should win the “effort” prize. I have truly enjoyed meeting you thru electronic media and have gained in the quest from your posts. If you happen to be driving back to TX thru Denver…it would be my pleasure to meet you. Put a new post on 9 clues if interested…otherwise…all the very best to you…you will be missed.

            Rejoice…and be glad in it.

  92. What does Arthur Manby have to do with Forrest treasure quest? Has anybody found his gravesite, other than the one on the park. Does anybody know where it is? Arthur Rochford Manby. What is the connection between him, and Forrest Fenn. Does anybody have an idea why Mr. Fenn choose Arthur’s Manby gravesite? Has anybody been to Manby’s gravesite yet? I went there but did not find anything. Does anybody know?

    • Manby would have been one of the characters in Forrest’s unpublished book, Closet Stories of Taos. He mentioned it when answering a question just a short while ago. One of the stories Forrest would tell in that book is who killed Manby. It remains an unsolved crime by the Taos Police.

      Early on in the hunt I was curious about the Manby/Fenn connection and investigated Manby Springs and Black Rock Springs. If you are interested in Manby I wrote a bit about him when I visited those springs and the Manby hacienda in Taos. It was a freaky experience. You can find the story here:

      and the story about searching the Black Rock Springs and finding a big “F” carved in the rock just inside a cave, here:

      • This is for you Dal. If I asked you to go to Manby’s gravesite with confidence where would you go, other than Manby’s gravesite?

        • RC-
          Is this a trick question?
          I believe I walked right up to his grave marker at the Kit Carson Cemetery in Taos. I guess some people don’t believe it was him in that grave. But his friend and neighbor Doc Martin did the autopsy for the county and he said it was Manby.

          • Hi Dal, sorry to ask this question since I know it has been posted recently.
            May I please have Forrest’s email address. I cant seem to find where it has been posted.

          • Friend, and whomever else looking for Forrest Fenn’s e-mail, you can find it in The Thrill Of The Chase. It isn’t hidden either! If you start reading the book from the beginning, you will find his e-mail before you even read the first word of the first chapter. If you don’t have a TTOTC book, then guess what time it is… yup, time to get your hands on a copy. (IMO, of course)

  93. Does anybody see what I am trying to tell the searchers. There is a connection with Arthur Manby, and Mr. Fenn. I do not know if it is the Manby Hot Springs, or his actual gravesite. If the conference does happen, can somebody ask him about the connection between the treasure chest, and Arthur Manby?

  94. I asked Forrest if Manby had anything to do with the treasure and, while he didn’t say yes or no, he was nonplussed… I could dig out the e-mail…

    I thought Manby was buried outside of Kit Carson Cemetary…


    rth: 1869, England
    Death: 1929
    Taos County
    New Mexico, USA

    Kit Carson Cemetery
    Taos County
    New Mexico, USA

    Created by: R & S Fine
    Record added: Jun 23, 2005
    Find A Grave Memorial# 11226160

  95. “Q: Did the same 9 clues exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will they still exist in 100 years and 1000 years? “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia.”-f

    “but most of the places the clues refer to did”

    – So if I am interpreting this correctly at least one (maybe more) of the clues did not exist when Mr. Fenn was a child?

    Very interesting!
    The Wolf

    • correction to my last – it meant to say”
      So if I am interpreting this correctly at least one (maybe more) of the places (the clues refer to) did not exist when Mr. Fenn was a child?
      The Wolf

      • Yes, / I agree , BUT…
        Beware the wordplay & possible logic pitfalls:
        — he might be talking about the name having changed, not the geography.
        — he could be referring to something that’s been erased or something created
        —most importantly: this all presumes that a ‘place ‘ is associated with each clue.
        Who, What, When, Why, and How make excellent clues, not just Where.

        • MapSmith, Always important to consider wordplay. FF definitely uses the word “places”.

          I don’t believe a “name change” would validates his comment – the place still exists but by another name.

          However, your second point (erased or created) is what I find the most interesting.

          Although “places” is very vague, this comment is detailed enough to be considered another gift from Mr. Fenn to test your solution for validity.
          The Wolf

          • Wolf, when I first read this Q & A with Forrest the exchange reinforced my view that the treasure is in Montana/Wyoming area for the simple reason that there is really nothing in TTOTC that suggests Forrest was in New Mexico or Colorado to personally make a comparison of the area between now and 70+ years ago. I think he is speaking strictly of geographic places as seen from his perspective which would require him to have “been there”. The fact that the Montana/Wyo area is so seismically active also suggest the geography will be changing before the next millennium. My apologizes if I’m off topic with what you driving at.

          • Raven, IMO you are on the mark on both points. Btw a Montana geologist friend mentioned they expect heavy seismic activity in and around YNP in the next few weeks.

          • IMO, there are a lot of parts in the book that reveal Forrest’s affinity for Colorado.

            Without revealing my ever narrowing specific spot, I believe I *might* know the location of “Hear me all and listen good,” which I think is actually one of the clues.

            Again, in my opinion, I think the location clues in the poem are a little different than the general consensus.

            However, my opinion seems to change daily as I discover more.
            But it still hasn’t strayed from a small area in CO.

            And I think the reason why some things are different than when Forrest was a child was because he was born “100 years too late.” Anybody see what I see?

            Or do you hear what I hear with both of my ears? 🙂

          • Maye canyons are not places so much as canyons of time… too fart to walk. Maybe the place where all listen is a natural or man-made amphitheater. I visited such in Greece where at the highest row you could hear normal speech on the stage.

          • Oh man, I very much want to blab what I discovered last night. I will say that I *think* tarry scant with marvel gaze MAY be a red herring.

            The three things I’m almost positive about is where waters begin (not sure about warm but I have an idea), the listen good, and the blaze. The blaze, in my opinion, doesn’t reveal specifically exactly where the treasure is, but what mountain it may be on.

          • Oy, Does that “Enter your comments here” poltergeist cover & spoil your typing too?
            Maybe and far. So sorry.

          • Old shadows–you made me laugh with your tftw. Your a real gentleperson for apologizing. Very sweet. Your comment on the Grecian amphitheater touched on an idea that I’ve rattled around in my head a few times: that maybe the blaze is perceived not visually but audibly.

    • Mindy so are you saying that when F says for all to listen good he’s talking about a sound that can be heard at the spot. Or is he saying your quest can only be done In the cold? And if it’s only to be done in the cold why is it? These points of the poem are a little sticky for me but I think I have the answers.

      • One other thought that came to me is that bronze is cold to the touch. So your effort will be worth the cold chest. But that information wouldn’t take anyone closer to the chest so I’ve settled on another meaning.

        • Ed, neither. I think the line about listening tells a very specific location, that you might know if you were born 100 years too soon.
          It’s a mix of wordplay and history. 🙂

          • Hmm interesting thoughts I agree with you on the blaze. The blaze would mark the area that you l oo k down from. Marvel gaze refers to comic book vision. Marvels comic character dragonfly has hypnotic gaze. Also a dragonfly has a vantage point because it can hover.

          • Chris, yes, I think you can see the blaze, but you don’t really need to physically “see” it if you have a good map. If you are in the area, and it’s a certain time, you will be able to see it, and see a location if you look quickly down.

            I’m toying with the idea that the blaze has a “twin” aspect. That there is the blaze wise people see, and a blaze that may pinpoint more exactly where the treasure is.

            However, from what I’m discovering so far, all you really need is the poem, and maybe some research skills. Lol.

      • Ed,

        I would not dismiss one definition for another. Cold can refer to the touch of metal as well as other meanings. Why just use one meaning, There are “Several” meanings usable for each “deliberate” word.

  96. My spot has everything to do with art and imo its the spot .all clues can be viewed while turning and looking around but now mother earth has changed just about everything so I can go there but pretty sure no one else can find the place with the clues .these where rock’s, boulder things that would take time to change so when we consider cloth or even trees as markers you need to rethink these need to be perminate .I figured mine were good for 1000 years but today they are different and some gone forever

    • old Choctaw – yep, right there with you on 1000 yr clues. Water, stone and now plastic are enduring elements. My solve follows fly waters and is set in stone.

        • @ Rickinflorida – I promise to stay out of your flywater… and if I see you in mine tomorrow, my son has been instructed to switch you soundly with his fly rod. Ha!
          Happy trails, CyaFishin


  97. Fenn’s comments on Jenny’s blog seem to be reaffirmations of prior hints…
    The hints are near useless but nice to hear: alone & hiding / right place at the right time / on the ground / an edge / imagination / logical mind / get out fast / things waiting. But more interesting was his comment that success eluded those who “absolutely loved art”.
    Was that for us? Does ART mean all the humanities? Are we taking our eyes off the goal by over-analysis of poetry, literature, word-play? KISS?
    Mr. Fenn, Are you ready to shoot yourself yet? Can we meet at the laughing wall?

    • Old S-
      I believe Forrest was referring to art as a business vs art as a passion. An artist who does what they feel vs an artist who recognizes what sells. A collector who understands what will appreciate vs a collector who likes things that match the sofa. I have had this conversation with Forrest several times. It has nothing to do with the treasure chest and everything to do with success in business. He feels his success in the art business can be attributed to this kind of approach. He was keenly aware of what the public was interested in buying and often pointed contemporary artists in that direction. He even wrote a piece for this blog on how to be a successful artist even if you’ve never painted before..so success will elude those who do not pay attention to the business of art.

      • Dal, Guess my irony was too obtuse & wholly ineffective. Agreed…I was re-interpreting words that had no deeper meaning than their stated value… stirring the pot. That’s why I asked Mr. Fenn if he wanted to shoot himself. I didn’t really think he might want to shoot himself. IMO picky, repetitive, needless re-interpretations often get passed off as deep thinking or powerful logic. Its playful, fun to do, but just noise, just us ants (or was it termintes) in the hill touching each other to make sure someone’ else is really here too. I do enjoy the seriousness it sometimes takes on though. I’ll shut up now.

      • I agree Dal, not everything Fenn says has to do with the treasure. Actually, I don’t think much of what he says has anything to do with the treasure. He’s sharing his business wisdom and life’s lessons along with stories about some interesting things in his collection. Many of the searchers could care less about what he is actually saying…….they are deaf and blind from gold fever. I wonder if he gets a kick out of that, or finds it frustrating.

        so success will elude those who do not pay attention to the business of art. You said a mouthful there, I’m not an artsy type guy, but being a wannabe photographer it is difficult knowing what will sell and to whom. Since I started doing business with a lady that owns some galleries my photography business has expanded greatly. She reminds me of Fenn except she’s young and pretty……..I told her once she was a great white shark disguised as an angelfish.

        It doesn’t matter who you are it only matters who they think you are.

        • I agree. You can be a great artist or be the owner of a great gallery. if people aren’t coming in your door and buying things, then you have a problem. Based on what Forrest has said, I would almost be willing to bet that he had a list of people and the type of art they like or were looking for. And if he was out somewhere and seen a piece, I bet he was making a phone call to them as he was purchasing it. I think this is some of the wisdom that he is trying to share.

          Or I could be wrong, who knows, I am going to have a snack now and ice my ankle.

          • I have read “The Merchant of Venice” multiple times and enjoy it immensely. That is about it. I have tried to read several of his other books, but was either interrupted or did not enjoy them as much.

        • Hi Goof & Old Shadows, I always appreciate your wisdom and input on the blogs.

          Thank heavens all that Forrest says does not relate to clues or treasure. I may not be clever enough to match wits with him or others on this blog, but none of what he says is wasted on me. I enjoy the subtle nuances as he describes with elegance the unique pieces he has collected and cherishes. I often enjoy an evening looking up further information on periods of history, colors, names, artists, and places he describes. His eloquence and candor push me to write and communicate with more specificity and beauty. His business acumen, marketing genius, and hard work are a standard of excellence. By the way Forrest, if you read this, Thank You!

  98. I believe u have to be a wise person to figure the poem out .
    Sometimes we all read between the lines but this is straight forward.
    I hope to find those keys somewhere. 🙂 I feel I know where that is now. It’s going to be a mess to find and take those keys. ( keyword) . 🙂 !!!!!

  99. I just heard of Forrest Fenn last night, and as an avid backpacker who lives in Denver, I’ve decided to search while enjoying my scenic dayhikes and backpacking at the same time.

    My first search will be Monday and I’m confident I have the right spot, but searching it will be in direct violation of that areas rules 🙁 hopefully I don’t get in too much trouble.

    I made my search choices based on the following logic:

    1-FF wanted this to be his final resting place, so it has to be absolutely gorgeous.

    2-He made two roundtrips from his car in one afternoon. So at 80, a one-way trip can’t take more than 3 hours.

    3-He made two roundtrips because this place is very public: once to scout the location, and the second to return with the TC and hide it. Why else would he make two trips?

    4-It’s hidden in a body of water and the blaze is literally the blaze(the sun.) Think about it…how many treasure hunts in famous stories have the location revealed by the rising sun??? The sun makes it easier to see into crystal clear water. Not to mention that streams and lakes in the Rockies are extremely cold “Your effort will be worth the cold.”…

    • Matt-
      Forrest told us why he made two trips. We know that he split up the treasure so that he only carried about half each trip….
      I don’t see how a one way trip could take as much as 3 hours. Since he did the trek twice he would have had to make 4 one way trips that afternoon. That would be as much as 12 hours if each one way trip took 3 hours. I think it’s more likely that his trips were about a half hour or 40minutes one way..plus some time at the hidey spot. But I think the hidey spot is very near where he parked.
      Have fun on your first adventure and let us know what you find…

      • Thanks for the follow up, as I’m still very new! I thought dividing the treasure could also be a possibility and didn’t know he already confessed to that! As far as 12 hours, i agree that is quite some time to be defined as an “afternoon,” but I only meant that as an absolute maximum. I completely agree that it is more likely a one hour one-way trip 🙂 Hopefully my follow up will be myself on the Today show, but I’ll be sure to stay in touch.


        • Welcome to the Chase MO. Appears that you are right at home in the Rockies so enjoy the sun and the Supermoon perigee orbit.

          Best of luck to you.

    • Dang Matt, you figured it out in one day. The least you could have done is acted like it was difficult; for us old timers sake. Looking forward to seeing the pictures of the chest.

      Well Dal, what are we going to look for now? Should I start to work on Bigfoot or UFO site? Maybe we could be ghost hunters, they have all kinds of really cool gizmos and cameras.

        • Thanks Raven, glad you liked the story. I thought I would be disqualified because of the length but it was a funny/strange story that happened I wanted to share. I don’t think it would be right to enter the contest since I’m the guy setting up the votes.

          I guess I could declare myself the winner by write in votes. Surely no one would be suspicious. 😆

          • You are a winner in my book even if I didn’t get to cast a vote for you. Great story–I can still “see” you speeding down the road at the end of the story. Very funny tale well told.

          • Goofy, it is a privilege to have association with people with good hearts and minds. We are blessed by you and Dal and Forrest. You guys are appreciated! 🙂

          • Goofy, you had my vote – I loved your story and even wrote Dal and asked where it was! It was very funny and made me laugh out load. 😀

          • OK CJ, you convinced me; I declare myself the winner…….Fenn, get that bottle of whisky out, I’m on the way.

            I don’t really need the necklace with all the charms because I pay attention in the check out line at the grocery store.

            I became rich and successful in 10 easy steps, got in shape and stayed healthy in 10 easy steps, have a great love life in 10 easy steps, raised great kids in 10 easy steps, have lots of friends in 10 easy steps, learned how to cook in 10 easy steps, have a beautiful home and yard in 10 easy steps, learned how to survive in the wilderness in 10 easy steps, and last but not least became a computer genius in 10 easy steps.

            There, the secret is out……forget about the treasure and head to the grocery store. Everything you ever needed to know about anything is right there in the check out line.

          • I guess I should have taken typing instead of physics in HS. Of course, my comment should be “laugh out loud!”. 🙂 You’re a great story-teller Goofy. I hope you write up some more of your adventures.

    • Matt

      I have come to believe it’s not in a gorgeous place.

      I do not believe it’s buried

      Put in = a hole with water and hold your nose why else would he laugh when he placed it . 🙂

      • Amy, your opinion on the laugh was funny, but seriously, I think FF’s comment about his laughing had a purpose. I’ve got a purpose in mind, but I’m not ready to give it up just yet.

  100. Two can keep a Secret if one of them are dead.

    Now you may not like this quote but i think it could be the key to where the chest is placed. One more miss quote that fenn may appreciate as time goes on is…

    When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang on.

    long live fenn

    • @ Pieces of 9, do you care to clarify or elaborate? A bit too cryptic for me to track with your reasoning on how treasure placement relates. But wholeheartedly agree with..long live ff:)

      • Sure, placement is key bottom.

        And, hanging in there is just as important top. Sometimes i get mixed up but I try not to let others down….. ….. 🙂

        The point of the saying is dont give up and let go to quick. life is too short the way it is…. ….

  101. Yeah, i guess i’ll shift my attention west to Arizona and the Lost Dutchman, thanks for letting us know Matthew….

  102. Matthew …I did 2.5 years of research and took a half a dozen trips at over 1000 dollars apiece before I Found where it was. lol I left it there so someone else could enjoy the chase.

  103. Thanks for doing us all a big favor Matthew… Great job… I guess I’ll mosey on out to my sand box and topple over all my Army men and start sumpin’ else… jess kiddin’

  104. I’m more convinced than ever a cross has something to do with the chase. With all the head shaking yes and no, and all the back and forths and ups and downs, those movements define the shape of a cross.

  105. I’m going to give this year I have no idea . I will sit back and wait to see if any new clues come our way. I have searched this area top and bottom and over and over . Had a great adventure thank u Forrest .
    I have to get back to work .
    Good luck to all the ones who search:) !!!!!

    • Hi Amy,

      Have a safe journey home and thank you for keeping us informed of your adventure…it is clear that you gave it your all. Perhaps if you feel you have exhausted your area you might consider writing it up so dal can post it and we can better understand your logic and appreciate your attempt at a solve.

      very best to you

      • Windsurfer-
        Thanks for the update Wind. For several months I believed (like 100,000 others) that my solution was a the special place. The number of landmarks which match clues and stories in the book is almost absurd.
        Seven family members were gracious to help me search as thoroughly as we know how 9 different times. At some point the moment passes…I need to give time to my family and protect my health again. Leaving Mt to keep my husband company on a business trip to Cal. Best wishes Wind.

  106. Does anyone know where the first instance is of the poem being made public by forrest?
    I.e. did he publish on his site? In a magazine? Did someone else make the poem public on forests behalf?

  107. I do not know about the location of the treasure chest anymore than most searchers, but what I know is that Arthur Rochford Manby keeps coming up on the book, the hints Mr. Fenn has given, and even the poem. Yes, Manby’s name is in the poem. Does anybody see that? What about Manby’s gravesite? Go with confidence to his gravesite! I have been there, but have not found the treasure chest. Does Mr. Fenn mean somewhere else, or does he mean Manby’s gravesite? Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead. What does he mean? Does Mr. Fenn mean he secreted the treasure chest beside Manby’s gravesite, or does he mean where he was killed at his hacienda? Can a serious seeker help me out here? I am going crazy trying to solve this mystery by myself. I have been to the Manby’s hot springs but that is a hard hike down to the springs, and maybe Mr. Fenn was not strong enough to have carried 20 lbs on his back, but he could have used a bike. Is anybody seeing what I am seeing. I think I am very close to solving this quest but cannot seem to find the rope’s edges so I can tie the knot. Any serious thinkers out there? I think if I find a few good thinkers we can solve this once and for all. Any thoughts anyone? By the way this is my email address(tech.t@live.com) if you want to have a serious “chat” about the chase.

    • RC – perhaps ff could have made two trips from his car to a horse and then rode the horse to the hiding spot once in an afternoon. I made that assumption in my search. Not sure if ff ever debunked or refuted that option.

    • RC –

      It’s just my opinion – but I don’t think he would have used somebody as controversial as Manby. He just doesn’t fit the profile – of the way everything is written. I think if you tried – you could find any name you wanted in the poem. Pick another name and try it. The spot I am looking is mentioned 15 times – but that doesn’t make it correct.

      • Ditto to that RC. I find it really creepy and quite implausible that Forrest would desire to exhale for the last time and rest his bones at the spot where a psychopath was buried. Too many “good guys” in them thar hills to waste eternity with that evil dude.

  108. Well, okie dokie. I’m on Team New Mexico now! I think I’ve found WWWH, and it does have to do with a kind of art–sorta.
    Luckily, I got trip insurance and can change my flight from Denver to my old stomping grounds of ABQ!
    The more I research, the more confident I grow that I will be “blessed,” if not with treasure then with lots of great memories!
    And yes, I think WWWH is definitely necessary!

    • I believe it’s in new mexico also and I have a few attempts at it so I have one more location and my brain is fried its hard to start over each miss but good luck to you Mindy

  109. Mindy – don’t know where you’re headed, but Albuquerque is south of Santa Fe. You many need to reconsider before heading out.

    • I know, lol. I meant I will be flying into Albuquerque and renting a truck before heading north of Taos…but not much further north.

  110. Windsurfer

    Not ready to give solve out just yet
    Like I know where it is lol
    Maybe next year I will try again I need to Think lol

  111. “You have to know where warm waters halt.” (That comment alone should tell you a thing or two about “Begin it”). But I believe that’s not physically where you start your ‘trek’ in the field, not by wwwh alone. So to get the correct solution to wwwh, you study and analyze the entire poem and find the hints that the poem contains to confirm that you have the right wwwh solution. The hints, or clues, to the clues, confirm the correct solutions to the clues. There are clues to the clues and sometimes in twos…

    So, if you know wwwh, and then understand the other clue solutions interconnected to wwwh, you are then able to use your map and find the physical hoB. But the solution to hoB is not an actual place per se; the solution to hoB, which itself is not a unique geographical place, enables you to then identify the actual place (having solved wwwh and contiguous clues).

    Again, it’s not a random searching for the hoB solution, but arriving at an understanding of what hoB is by solving the clue and confirming it with the other hints in the poem, and then seeing precisely what hoB physically is in your path you are creating. I believe that hoB has multiple confirmations in the poem language, as does wwwh, and the blaze; the three primary components of the clue structure. Like the three primary elements of architectural form- the column, the beam , the slab, and the limitless variations on those elements and the other systems (analagous to confirmational hints in the poem) that support it.

    The poem is all about the incredibly tight-knit and joined nature of the clue solutions, which mirrors the actual place. The word ‘contiguous’ as offered by Forrest was a generous nod to the interconnectedness and self-fulfilling nature of the clues, as were his architectural references.

    The words are everything we need, with simple and straight-forward meanings, with variations to be discovered in the understanding of the poetic word-sense created by Forrest, but without the overt complexities that Forrest has identified and discredited in his scrapbook.

    “People will be surprised when they find out where it is.”

    What surprises me about where it is (as I believe it to be) is how precisely the poem is superimposed upon the landscape of where it is. And in turn, the place is an analog of the poem. The place is the ‘author’ of the poem; it works in reverse. Many people comment that the poem sounds so ‘general’, but that may be because they are struggling to identify specific place names or discrete elements gained from pieces of the poem. I believe that you need to see the CLUE SOLUTIONS to understand the places. Then it’s precise.

    After all, it was the actual place that determined the parameters for Forrest and his options for clues. The wwwh clue is born out of the place, as are all the clues, of course. We’re all just mirroring the steps that Forrest took, in reverse. He translated place-to-poem, and we’re translating poem-to-place.

    But the poem is conceptually like a charcoal rubbing on paper of the place. Put yourself in the middle of the poem and you’re surrounded by clues and hints. Put yourself in the middle of the place, and you’re surrounded by all of the elements and qualities that Forrest recognized and the clues are giving up.