706 thoughts on “The Nine Clues….Part Twentynine

    • I agree, Chris. I must completely honestly admit, however, that I don’t know what these “nine clues” are that Forrest talks about. I’m sure I’d be further along if I did.

        • I’m being very sincere, Chris…cross my heart and hope (NOT) to die 🙂

          I’ve spent a lot of time attempting to understand the poem…but not once have I ever taken the time to count clues…although I’ve seen lots of others give their interpretations.

  1. dal,

    At the beginning of the last Nine Clues thread you posted

    And as a new searcher pointed out to me yesterday…at one of the Collected Works events where we have video Forrest was asked the closest a searcher had been and he said about 50ft…

    Not sure about you all….but my GE can take me “down” to just about 50 ft. Perhaps this is what Mr. Fenn is referring. Any closer with 1 meter optics and that would be classified…so not yet authorized by the Department of Defense.

    Hope this helps address the 50 ft comment.

    • I’m beginning to think that the person who made the 50ft remark was mistaken about what Forrest said at collected Works. At least it was not in any of the videos I’ve seen. I never heard that about GE going down to about 50ft but that’s an interesting thought – not that any of the distance remarks of any kind helps us. 🙂

  2. Clue 1
    As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold,
    I can keep my secret where,
    And hint of riches new and old.

    Clue 2
    Begin it where warm waters halt
    And take it in the canyon down,
    Not far, but too far to walk.

    Clue 3
    Put in below the home of Brown.

    Clue 4
    From there it’s no place for the meek,
    The end is drawing ever nigh;
    There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
    Just heavy loads and water high.

    Clue 5
    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
    Look quickly down, your quest to cease
    But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
    Just take the chest and go in peace.

    Clue 6
    So why is it that I must go
    And leave my trove for all to seek?

    Clue 7
    The answers I already know
    I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

    Clue 8
    So hear me all and listen good,
    Your effort will be worth the cold.

    Clue 9
    If you are brave and in the wood
    I give you title to the gold.

    • Hello, Louderback. Although I’ve never counted clues this is the nine clues list that I’ve always ascribed to. (preposition) 🙂

      Chris, if you’re reading this that’s probably why I’ve never made an attempt to count clues…now that I think about it.

    • A little food for thought: Just heavy loads and water high.

      Forrest made 2 trips to the hiding spot. Heavy loads.
      I bet he had plenty of water to drink. Water high?

    • must be a dam not running water for it to be warm water halts also he gives a clue in an interview (a place very dear to me so find that place, buy his books which he wants you to do nothing in life is free.the clues are in each of his books

  3. Some questions I would ask is: Is the start of the poem even at “As I have gone…”? I have thought for some time now, The beginning of the 1st stanza was the beginning of the poem. Now for the last many months I have considered the poem to start at, ” So why is it I must go…” We have been told the clues are in consecutive order, OK. We have been told to start at the beginning, OK.
    But exactly where in the ‘poem’ do we start ‘understanding’ the starting point?

    WWWH maybe the first clue [ possibly ], or it just maybe the most important of the clues. WWH could even be the third or fourth actual clue.

    But is the starting point of the poem, to understand it, start where most of the readers think it does? There are many reasons, I can see, that the poem was written the way it was… each line, each word, each stanza, each sentence etc. The structure and format of the poem holds hints, could the staring point also be a hint?

    Just a different perspective.

  4. I still have not been able to find any creditable source(directly from FF)of “the treasure is below 10,200.”

    Forrest saying the treasure is above 5,000ft and below 20,000ft are of little value, as are many of his additional clues. But a significant amount of the Rocky Mountains are above 10,200, and can be reached by car. I just don’t see Forrest narrowing the search area that much…

    Until he states that as clue #14, I’m not buying it…

    • Z : watch the oct 2013 signing/reading event too; in that he said it isn’t on any mountain top, further eliminating a few hundred sites…

      • I did watch that video, and yes you’re right, he did say it wasn’t at the top of a mountain. But what is the top of a mountain? The very top point. All he said was that it’s not sitting on the very top tip of the mountain, that doesn’t mean it isn’t in the small cave/overhang thats 50 feet from the summit…which in turn, eliminates no sites…

        • Zatara –

          Forrest made the comment to a reporter from True West Magazine and it was printed in the Dec 2013 edition as a update to the original article. He and the reporter had lunch together and the reporter asked him for one more clue and he said it was located below 10,200 feet.

        • Put in Below the home of Brown 🙂

          Real quick I have always had a issue where it says it’s no place for the meek I have told forrest what I thought it meant but maybe it’s something different can anyone explain that sentence to help me to grasp it

          Thank u

          • Amy,

            Don’t know if this will help, but I will explain how it works in my solution…

            Remember however, mine is unique to the method of interpretation used by most searchers…I see things in this poem differently than most…

            In my solution to find the search location the lines –
            “Put in below the home of Brown.
            From there it’s no place for the meek,”
            work together as a single clue…

            Focusing only on the words – “it’s no place for the meek” – they mean the following to me…

            ” “Now that you have started down this path you must be brave and continue to the end, don’t stop now.” ”

            As a side note: at a searchers request I once listed MY nine clues on Steph’s blog in an attempt to generate some discussion…Seems none were interested in MY nine clues so I deleted them after a week…Don’t mind listing them really, since this arrangement only produced the search location and the clues change association at the site and re-order to locate the chest itself…Here they are again if you or others may be interested…

            1. Begin it where warm waters halt, and take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk.

            2.Put in below the home of Brown. From there it’s no place for the meek,

            3.The end is ever drawing nigh;

            4.There’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high.

            5.If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,

            6.Look quickly down your quest to cease,

            7.But tarry scant with marvel gaze,

            8.Just take the chest and go in peace.

            9.So why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek?

            Like I said, I read the poem differently than most people…But my method did name the place to go…When I have the finances, I will go there and check it out…Really don’t think anyone else is even close to what I have found hidden in the poem…Mr. Fenn did a masterful job of hiding it…


          • Just my thoughts Amy, ff says the one who will find the treasure chest will go with confidence. I guess that means 100% confident. How do we or ff gauge that? IMO ff has cleverly hidden a way to gauge this in the poem. It’s in the line that you speak of that we need to be confident and this is where the word that is key is found.

          • Amy.

            No place for the meek is just as difficult as, start at the beginning. We { the searchers} can’t even come up to a consensus on where to start, either in the poem or on a physical search.

            Some say start at WWWH and travel to No place for the meek. That’s great if we understand the poem correctly. I would suggest reading the poem with different methods in mind, Not just as a set of walking direction, but as a story or as looking at the constellations or as a set of metaphors… etc. etc.

            I say this as an exercise in trying to determine how the poem needs to be read.

            I personally don’t believe that any of the lines are places needed or even can be traveled, but just leads { on paper } to a location Fenn wants the searcher to be.

            Exercise this… How do we know we are to be in The Rocky Mountains ? How does the poem take you there? Remember that this was not information the early searchers had… In the Rockies… But the poem leads the reader to them. As well as No place for the meek.

            I look at this line like this No” Place “… for the meek as, Some times the opposite way of thinking is the straight way to think. If it’s no place for the timid, frail, weak but yet still affiliated with the Rockies, what does a person need to not be meek? Brave? Strong? fearless? shows some back bone? grow a set? self motivated? what relates most to the “place” In the poem…the Rockies? Some times { maybe } the answer is not what the definition of a word is but how it relates to the poem itself.

            Just a thought.

  5. Yes, I said that. F

    From: Chris Yates
    To: ffenn@earthlink.net
    Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 11:24 AM
    Subject: ? about magazine quote

    Hello Forrest,

    I am emailing you because I would like to know if you could confirm the accuracy of what is being stated on Dal’s blog under the thread ‘Ladies only’, that the writer for a follow-up article about you in True West Magazine has you quoted as giving the following hint

    “Sure. The Treasure is hidden below 10,200 feet.”

    It would be very helpful sir and much appreciated if you can confirm or deny that quote from True West Magazine. Thanks in advance.

    • Thank you Chris. I suppose I’ll limit my search to elevations below that, but not scratch anything above that off my list. Not that I don’t believe you, or the other’s, I’m just surprised he’d throw that out there casually not thinking that would help anybody. Just looking for some video/the words coming straight out of his mouth. I think we can all agree that below 10,200 is a major clue/hint and it’s origin should be concrete. I mean, one of his last concrete clues is “not in Utah or Idaho,” whereas the areas above 10,200 in the Rocky’s in NM/CO/WY/MT is massively larger than the tidbit of the Rocky’s that are in Utah or Idaho…

      Am I crazy since I seem to be the only one concerned over this? Last post about it, I’ll drop it…

      • Zatara

        Consider this. Early on Forrest commented that the chest was above 5000 feet. More recently, he states that it is below 10,200 feet. Why didn’t he originally state that the chest was between 5000 and 10200 feet? Simple. People are always looking for him to give out more clues, so off the top of his head, he makes this recent comment of below 10,200 feet. He is a trickster, don’t forget that.

      • well you’re having the same reaction that i had when the hint first came out. i couldnt hardly believe he said it and thats why i emailed him to make sure. ive never asked Forrest anything else in an email ever.

        anyways its ancient history to me now and everyone knows about this clue now.

        i dont think he gave it out casually, he knew it was a major clue and that it was a major help in that it eliminated a lot of area.

        certainly you are right to be concerned about it, or at least recognize its significance and no doubt it is significant. there is also no doubt that its been verified, so the treasure is indeed resting below 10,200 feet and is not associated with a structure. this does not apply to anything else in the poem though. if we are to look down from the blaze, who knows what elevation it could be at.

    • Forrest was talking about measuring distances in chains and links on Richard Saunier’s Mountain Walk blog. In that conversation he mentioned that the treasure was hidden at least “x” number of (I don’t remember the number) links north of Santa Fe. That number of links equaled 8.25 miles. So we started using the 8.25 miles rather than the links…Since then he has used the 8.25 mile number himself on occasion when speaking with others.
      You’ll have to go to Mountain Walk and look it up. I think it was significantly more than a year ago…

  6. Dal,

    I would like to submit a short story here if I may but I know not the topic or thread to which it should be assigned. I would appreciate it if you or GoG would relocate it to the heading you think most appropriate, maybe Other’s Adventures or Armchair Adventures?

    I do not equate myself with Mr. Fenn’s writing abilities by any means. This is a little tale of pure fantasy by an amateur; a short vignette relating how he may have accomplished his task in hiding his trove. It is not intended as a solution to the poem. However, I hope those who read it will enjoy it.

    A Scenario

    It was a warm and sunny summer day as a vehicle pulled to the side of the road and parked in the gravel among the scattered vehicles of vacationers, fishermen, and visiting flatlanders. The elderly man behind the wheel knew a kinship with them in this ancient river canyon he has visited many times over the years. It possessed a beauty and calling he could never resist.

    He checked that his pass was visible through the windshield and exited the driver’s door, breathing the mountain air so fragrant with the aromas of the flora he remembered so well. His senses drank in the juniper, pine, laurel, and chamisa with which he was so familiar as he walked to the tailgate to gather his possibles and gear packed earlier that morning at home in Santa Fe. Donning his waders and hat and settling into the unusually heavy backpack, he gently grasped his favorite bamboo fly-rod and aged wicker creel; all the while wondering if he could really pull this off as he has planned so carefully. Today’s mission was much more important than the search for elusive Brown’s.

    Exhilarated with the prospect of visiting the special, almost sacred place he knew so well and with a tingle at the nape of his neck for what the was about to do, he set off with easy strides toward the trail into the hills above. He offered a warm Southwestern greeting to a family of Floridians in their flip-flops, setting up their picnic fare on the grassy bank of the burbling river. And a “No, but thank you Ma’am; I’m good for the day.” to that offer of overly sweet Southern Iced tea. Lord, that stuff burns as it goes down.

    He tipped the brim of his hat to the fly-fisherman downstream as his waders drummed rhythmically over the timber of the bridge toward the track ahead and began the first leg of his climb. Should be a easy trek of less than a mile he mused, then the short walk through the dappled shade to his hidden retreat. The warm sun brought moisture to his brow before he reached the trees, and kerchief in hand he waved at the giddy back-packers almost racing down the slope. Should have done this years ago when the legs were in better shape, he grinned; better take it slow, have to do this one more time today.

    A few minutes more and there, just as he remembered it, was the cool inviting solitude broken only by the sound of water tumbling down the steep stone face. Unhurriedly he shouldered off the backpack and set aside the fishing gear, won’t be needing that today. Breaking out the flashlight, he checked the dark hole under the ledge for any unfriendly critters that may lurk in such a place. Satisfied it was clear and no one was in sight, he removed the contents of the pack and gently slid it into the dark recess. OK, that’s that, better go get the rest of it.

    The trip back down was more leisurely with the lighter pack. Back to the vehicle and load up with the real goodies, then off up the trail again. The picnickers were too busy eating to notice this time. That’ll teach them, he thought. A little winded from the weighty load, he once again safely and unnoticed reached his destination, and easing off his pack he felt into the darkness and withdrew that sculpted bronze box. He recounted to himself the history of every item he carried back up as he reverently placed them within. Closing the lid and returning the cache to it’s hiding place he realized he might never lay eyes on them again. No matter, one day someone will marvel at the discovery of these little treasures and know the thrill he has enjoyed all these years; and they will wonder who could possibly have done such a foolish thing. That was covered also, he tried to think of everything.

    Removing the final items from his pack, he rested awhile as he slowly enjoyed the bologna sandwich with mustard, pickles and horseradish and sipped from his bottle of apple juice. In his fantasies he could hear the wing-bone flute of some ancient breath, and hear the tapping sound that left that strange glyph on the stone above him. May be that he could return here one last time before the legs totally gave out, maybe not. He was content with that. It was time now to go, so he gathered his gear, placed the trash in the pack and headed back to his vehicle. He laughed and shook his head as he thought about what he had done, and climbing into the driver’s seat began to think of a good explanation for returning home with no fish. Just how big was the one that got away he wondered, and smiled.


    • Thank you Samsmith, what a pleasant diversion from the ugly news on TV. You had me walking with purpose but without haste behind a man that that gives dreams away.

    • Thank you for such a pleasant story SamSmith. I enjoyed it but sure sounds convincing that NM is the place

      • Maybe it is and maybe it isn’t annabloom…

        This is only one scenario I have envisioned…I have a couple of more not written…Similar in nature, but very different in location and circumstances…

        We will each believe as we see fit to our purpose and thinking…rhyme and reason I can understand…

        Eventually someone will get it right…

    • Samsmith –
      Great Scenario and well written. I wonder how close you are to the actual occurrence. A “…wing-bone flute..” caught my attention at the end of the story. Could it have been an abandoned aulos picked up by a satyr? Your introduction to this post makes that question more interesting (to me at least).
      Really enjoyed the story.
      Maybe there could be a contest for stories such as yours (not to include Apollo)?

    • Well written, it shows the contrasts of how easy it could have been done…..and how difficult to solve.

      My thoughts on the reality though, would be I’m sure forrest would have been more careful not to be seen, I mean imagine if an eagle eyed tourist remembered his face some time later and noticed him making 2 trips to a spot..?

  7. My simple theory: ***** (almost) All words important ******
    First stanza describes where the chest is hidden and provides an introduction/background that also contains useful information in supporting the correct interpretation of the general area of the trove.

    The 9 clues are:
    1. Begin it WWWH
    2. and take it in the canyon down
    3. Not far, but too far to walk
    4. Put in below the hoB
    5. From there it’s no place for the meek
    6. The end is ever drawing nigh
    7. There’ll be NO paddle up your creek
    8. Just heavy loads and water high
    9. If you have been wise and found the blaze look quickly down

    These 9 clues are the directions to follow in order to locate the chest. All other information in the poem provides useful information or hints in determining what each of the 9 clues mean. The 9 clues elegantly flow together and support each other in a common or linking theme.

    The hints scattered throughout the poem, provide confidence to prove you have correctly interpreted each of the 9 clues. Most of the words used the poem have multiple meanings: the obvious and clever/covert that provide intrigue that make the puzzle a masterpiece.

    The 5 uses of the word “it” have separate meanings that provide a cohesive link to the story line. Get those correct and the 9 clues become much easier to confirm.

    The last stanza provides strong hints to both the word that is key and at least two of the key clues and additional instructions on how to interpret the poem and the logical theme to where it is hidden.

    The elements that make up the blaze are defined by the clever insertion of many words that secretly describe the blaze. Once seen it will be obvious that it is the correct blaze. The blaze (by definition) marks the path to the trove. The exact location of the trove is further detailed in the poem if you correctly understand the meaning(s) of “down”.

    The area around the blaze that takes you from water high to the blaze and then to the trove are covertly described in the poem; that when cracked will allow the finder to confidently claim it to be the correct solution and allow them to “walk” exactly to the precise spot to where the trove is hidden “with a smile on their face”.

    The importance of listening vice reading cannot be stressed enough. The understanding of the use of prepositions can assist.

    All this of course is just my humble theory, nothing more, nothing less.
    Good luck to all!

    • Wolf,
      I agree with much of what you say; IMO this would be cool headed advice for a new searcher. I have one question: Why capitalize “NO paddle” when you don’t capitalize “no place for the meek”? Just curious…

      • Geoff,
        Yes it is a very simple summary. It would take about 20,000 words to explain it in exact detail – haha

        The capitalized “NO paddle” means there is a creek but you must avoid it. I think many people overlook that fact or think it is the route to take but the inability to marine navigate is just a physical trait.
        The Wolf

        • Wolf,
          Thanks for the explanation. I believe that I agree with you on that point. Good luck in searching!

        • Par excellence Wolf! I like your idea. It fits with my creek solve where a particular rule makes you avoid the creek. I also like to throw in a Lewis and Clark ref for fun. They converted their wooden paddles to saddles to portage a stream where it needed to be avoided.

  8. Dal,

    How can I see yesterday’s blog comments – under this ‘Nine Clues’ section: Aug 24th & 25th ??


    • The sidebar to the right…”searchers discussions,” then, “Nine Clues Archive.”

    • When i’m that tired the only thing that keeps me on the road is coffee and ZZ top. Turn it UP……….love that Fender guitar. 🙂

      • When I’m that tired the only thing that keeps me on the road is coffeeeee… .and… ZZ zzzZZZzzzZZZ

  9. Ok im awake now…. wiki zz top its crazy how much the chase has influenced them! two songs in stand out. Can you pick them out….. 🙂

  10. From what Forrest just recently under the “Forrest” topic, I think halt means “slows.” From other recent posts, I think if you look up what a miner’s inch is, you’ll have a better idea.

    He said he “slows at stop signs.”

  11. Many searchers still ask the same question. “Where do we begin in the poem?” The answer should be quite simple. Begin at the first stanza.

    The first stanza gives us a picture of Fenn’s approach to searching. He believed in going alone anytime he went out looking for artifacts. To be able to return for further discoveries later, he would keep to himself where he was looking. In this treasure hunt, he knows that there are new and old riches in the spot where he is hiding the chest. What they are is of no consequence, since we will understand once we solve the clues and arrive at the location. He tells us the risk of being observed was minimal, because he could be bold in his efforts.

    Now observe the character of what he tells us. This is somewhat of a self-portrait.

    His comment of “no human trail” supports that fact that it is remote. Most probably not a town in sight for miles around. Being he selected a route to travel, it would still have to be within a reasonable distance to a road.

    It seems questionable that he had to climb any mountains, as even with only carrying half the weight of his treasure, would still be quite an effort climbing a mountain in two round trips. Especially given his age at the time, regardless of how fit he may have been.

    Considering his close encounter with death, I am quite certain he had decided to shift from 4th gear, back into second. I base my hypothesis on his comment “a child could walk up to it”.

    • These are all valid points I agree with completely.

      Although a popular destination that is known for it’s beauty is hard to ignore, especially since it give’s the hidey spot the “right under your nose” aspect, these places are explored by 100,000’s of people a year. It only takes one person to stumble onto the TC.

      Before I ever knew about TTOTC, I explored scenic places quite thoroughly looking for artifacts. The only way to avoid this random chance of discovery is for it to be a completely random place “in the wood.”

      Just two months ago(prior to joining the chase) my friend and I decided to go hiking and drove up a random rode in Allenspark and pulled over. We looked up at some mountain peaks and spotted one that had a rocky outcropping with what we thought would be a good view from the top. We started hiking through the thick woods where there were no trails and made our way to the top. After enjoying the view for about an hour, we made our way back down. Again there was no trail so our way down was different then our accent. About half way down I noticed a dirty bottle on the ground near the base of a tree. My first thought was, “I can’t believe some asshole just dropped his empty Jim Beam bottle here.” When I picked it up, I realized quickly it was an antique bottle as the neck was rounded and the glass was lavendar colored. I became very excited because the bottle was in flawless condtion, only dirty and full of moss. I could imagine that some prospecter over a 100 years ago was probably checking out the same peak we were, and that he probably sat right there against that tree and finished of his bottle of whiskey before moving on, leaving the empty bottle right there. And there it sat for 100 years until I found it, undisturbed.

      This is the kind of place that FF hid his treasure. Not in Allenspark, but unmolested by time.

      In my minds eye, I also envisioned a cave/overhang situatuion, maybe behind a waterfall. But as I think back to every cave/overhang I have been in, I have explored every crevise and crack looking for treasure. I think that is very natural and in our human nature to do so. So with that said, I think it would be very risky of FF to hide it in a cave.

      Last but not least, the mine theory. I find this one similar to the cave, but blacklist it immediately as FF has stated that the TC is not anywhere dangerous, and mineshafts are very dangerous.

      • F would have a hard time keeping people from finding his chest in a popular area. i’m thinking more along your line Zatara, a place thats busy but not too busy. A beautiful and special place to Forrest with threes and water. Something out of the way that most people would never consider. I would not let the poem draw an image of the spot. I believe the surface picture was intended to mislead. Clues are the important thing.

        • I notice a lot of people think the spot is beautiful but I’m not sure he every used that word. I’ve heard him say secret, special, and dear. A place can be all those things without necessarily being scenic and not being classically beautiful may be why it’s unlikely to draw much attention. If anyone’s got a direct quote of him saying beautiful i’d be interested.

          • I tend to agree with you Marvin–my guess is that Forrest’s special spot is special to him because of an emotional connection he has with the spot and not necessarily because it is “beautiful”. I think that is why some may have overlooked the spot when they were in the vicinity of the tc. There is a spot in my own mind that was in a little wooded area near my home when I was very young child that my mind turns to when I want a peaceful, place to repose. Even now I can feel the sun on my face, a gentle breeze rustling the leaves in the trees, and the embrace of the tall grass I would lay in knowing that no one could find me. It was my heaven on earth.

          • @Marvin Candle

            That well-seasoned Frenchman got to me with a trick that was the oldest ploy in the history of trading: It didn’t matter how special the knife was, it only mattered how special he could make me think it was.

          • What comes to my mind is the engraving on the metal grave markers – I do not have my books right now, but the word Homely is sticking out in my mind right now.
            And to Raven – yes as a child I used to go through the horse pasture down to the lake and over to a pine forest and watch for an owl that lived there. It was a very peaceful way to spend an afternoon getting my attitude adjusted. It was not necessarily a beautiful place (by sight) where I sat nor was the journey getting there, but it was beautiful in my heart and mind.

    • Actually on the “child could walk up to it” quote, he kind of backed away from that just a little. The last quote on that was: ”
      Can you please elaborate on ‘the chest is not in a dangerous place’? A: The treasure is not hidden in a dangerous place in the normal definition of the word, realizing that there probably is no place on this planet that is safe under all conditions. Bloggers have quoted me as saying that a child could walk up to the treasure. I don’t think that’s an accurate quote because a three year old girl would have a problem without some help. ”

      I suspect he is saying that there are obstacles to overcome that perhaps require some stature, balance, and/or agility.

      • You’re right Marvin. I recall that comment now. Disregard that part of my comment. I still stick with the rest of the comment though.

  12. JC1117on August 26, 2014 at 8:42 pm said:

    Hello, Louderback. Although I’ve never counted clues this is the nine clues list that I’ve always ascribed to. (preposition)

    Chris, if you’re reading this that’s probably why I’ve never made an attempt to count clues…now that I think about it

    Until recently, I’ve never thot I understood the 9 clues either. Ive had a couple guesses, like 9 landmarks was one, but I always knew I was guessing and really had no idea.

    The theory that I thought probably made the most sense was the 9 sentences. Mainly because this seemed to support the idea that the whole poem was clues.
    But still that feels like a guess, it doesn’t completely make sense.

    From the beginning Ive trusted my instinct which told me probably every word and every letter is a clue and that there are multiple layers. Nothing else makes sense to me on how something can be hidden in a poem and yet lead precisely to a location.

    I feel like recently ive cracked some pretty huge clues. And in doing so I think Ive stumbled on to what “poem containing nine clues” means. And this time it finally makes sense. This does not feel like a guess at all.

    The huge clues that I think I solved that led to this, and the meaning behind the “nine clues”, I would not want to explain any of that of course, but I will throw out a small hint if anyone is curious

    When you are counting to nine, make sure that you are using the right kind of numbers

  13. With all the talk about knives and Napoleon I’m wondering if someone isn’t faking stuff but then sometimes a person might appear to be faking but actually there the real deal all IMO of course people you just never can tell.

    • Me too. And prob not the tribe everyone seems to be leaning toward. If we are thinking of the same tribe, and if we are right, we both have a good idea of what the blaze is, and what in the wood is.

  14. I used to believe that WWWH was the first clue but now I’m not sure. Like many, I think the “Begin” word ropes you in. But consider this line of reasoning based on the following quotes:

    1-CWB interview Apr 17, 2013, “……There are two different parties that have figured out the first two clues correctly and went right past the treasure chest because they didn’t have the others.”

    2-MW 7/1/2014:Dear Forrest,You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:
    a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
    b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
    Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve
    No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

    3-MW 8-12-2014, “Someone unfamiliar with your poem receives a message that says “meet me where warm waters halt, somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”. Would they be able to work out where to go? If they can’t, would they need the whole poem, another stanza, or just a line or word to help them on their way? ~Phil Bayman.

    There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. F”
    So from the first quote we are told that it is possible to figure out the first two clues correctly without figuring out the rest. However, in quote 2 and 3, he is essentially asked the exact same question twice, with the same caveat, and gives the same answer. Both Steve, and Phil essentially asks him if the WWWH clue can be solved by itself or if it requires other supporting information from the rest of the poem, to which F replies Phil is being too simplistic because there are just “a few words in the poem that are not useful……”. This strongly implies to me that WWWH is not the stand-alone clue I thought it was. Further, he tells us that the concept of WWH is not unique in the Rockys, so not only do we need to know what the concept means but which instance is correct. At a minimum, I think he implies that you either need to know that this clue relates to a treasure hunt (“the big picture”) but possibly you even need another piece of information either before or after WWWH depending on whether it is the first or second clue.

    So how do you deep thinking treasure searchers read this?

    • Words from Forrest that I have thought about as related to your question:

      “Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues.”

      “Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?”

      “You have to learn where the first clue is”

      My thought on this subject is that you have to figure out the clues through a methodical process which requires significant brain effort; arbitrarily fitting anything that has warm water or places where water temperatures change (and any of the other many ideas kicked about) is never going to get the cake baked correctly. Remember that there have been people at the starting point who were completely oblivious to its connection to the poem.

      Forrest states that the poem is straightforward (he does not say that the clues in the poem are straightforward -one of the few things everyone would agree on- he says they must be figured out and solved), so my opinion is that the poem is straightforward in telling us that we should begin it WWWH. So is WWWH the whole clue that needs to be figured out? I don’t think so, that to me is oversimplifying it.

      Can’t say that there is much deep thinking here, mostly just regurgitation of what Forrest has been saying all along. 🙂

      • JCM said, “So is WWWH the whole clue that needs to be figured out? I don’t think so, that to me is oversimplifying it.”
        Yes, I think that’s one of the points I’m trying to make. A lot of people (myself included) have been trying to solve WWWH as a standalone clue. IMO he is telling us here that it is not sufficient to just consider this phrase and that I am going to have to carefully reconsider what constitutes a complete clue.

  15. That my warm water is unique:) even if he said it is not . Forrest is tricky right.

    • RE: begin it WWWH, Forrest responds…

      “There are no short cuts” – ff

      SHORT CUT – noun
      1.a route that is shorter than the usual one
      2.a means of saving time or effort

      IMO, ff was thinking about his family’s 1600 mile journeys at 35 mph w/o air conditioning or radio in a 1936 Chevy; with a 50 mile side trip just to read a sign. By my calculations, the trip from TT to his beloved summers in YP would have taken a minimum of 50 hours straight through. Throw in a few pit stops; back seat fights with Skippy, and the seemingly endless trip escalated to 55-60 hours. In the mind of a child who can’t wait to begin his summer in Yellowstone, the journey must have been endless (like my explanation).

      • And don’t forget the flat tires every 30 or 40 miles… tires back then weren’t near what they are today.

        • JCM – My grandfather from Wyoming told stories about fixing flats with a thin dime every 30 miles. I spent my entire childhood in the back seat; rolling around with siblings; trading penny candy; bugging each other; asking how much further. Every weekend we were out exploring, camping. Great memories accompanied by not-so-great trips to the dentist. too many cinnamon bears and tootsie rolls.

  16. Amy,
    I agree that he is clever, but perhaps not in the way I think you mean tricky. I don’t think he trying to trick us here. His responses to the same question were a month apart and he certainly had a lot of time to frame his response. I think we need to pay close attention since the devil is in the details.

  17. Dal-

    When I was in the Navy and aboard Ship, underway and conducting GQ, the squackbox would come on and the guy talking would tell us that, “The nearest land was three miles! Everyone on board would holler straight down, because we were no where near land. We were in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

    I think it may have been Mr. Feen”s cousin because he had a Texas accent,
    the guy on the squackbox.

    In Texas, ” a fer piece” could be a couple of hundred miles, but it is not a fur collar.

    8.25 Miles north of Santa Fe, would be the starting point to start looking in the Rockies, go north, it is not in Santa Fe either.

    Oh, no one ever got a yard stick to measure how far down the land was aboard ship neither!

  18. Bob Boze Bell is the editor of True West Magazine and published an interview with Forrest by Johnny D. Boggs in the November 2013 issue. Bell makes a short video promoting each issue and made this video where he mentions his favorite clue from Forrest…can you guess which clue is his fav?


    • Dal, didn’t you state that shortly after Forrest made that sandwich and flashlight statement that Forrest said you only needed the flashlight if you were out at night, or something to that effect?

      • CJ-
        Sounds vaguely familiar. But I don’t know where Forrest said that and I don’t know when I made the comment…
        Sorry…my recall is, and always has been, appalling…

        Oh how I disadmired those who had great memories when I was a teen..Not having a memory made me suspicious of those who did and the reason for their high grades in school… 🙂

        I am a research guy…find it..make notes… and write things down..

        If I have to depend on my memory I am at a severe disadvantage.

        • Then I can just forget about the $5 that I owe you? 🙂 lol

          Most of us have a hard time remembering every thing we said, much more trying to remember everything someone, like Forrest, says too!

        • I did a little search on your blog and found this under “Tips from Forrest”.


          Folks have been agonizing for a couple of years now about Forrest saying this. Why would we need a flashlight? Is it in a cave? Underwater? In the basement of Brown’s home? Maybe we need a flashlight to throw at a bear guarding the chest…who knows? Recently Forrest sent me an email in which he said “A flashlight isn’t necessary unless you are searching at night.” So why did he say this to begin with? It’s just a saying…a reminder, if you are going to be late, take a flashlight.”

    • It would have to be In The weather because abandoned mines is private property they call it a ghost town .

  19. Just for clarity…and because I just ran across the source while doing some work here in the old research cabin…

    The actual quote about the treasure being under 10,200 feet is in the December True West Magazine, page 10, under the heading Forrest Fenn Treasure Update.
    Not long after that update came out Forrest was asked by a searcher if he actually made that remark and he said “yes”. Since then he has often used that number himself.

    The “above 5,000ft” remark was made much earlier in the hunt by Forrest in an interview that I cannot lay my eyeballs on (it might have been a Today Show clue). We knew that it was above 5,000ft long before we knew it was under 10,200ft.

    Forrest said after he handed out the “above 5,000ft” remark (paraphrasing) its not much of a hint because nearly all the mountains north of Santa Fe are above 5,000ft.

    • It was on the today show and if you watch the clip closely he clearly begins with almost saying seven before he looks down at his paper and says five thousand- also I believe he later says after the interview at a later time that Peggy believes “he gave it away” after the today show interview – so did she mean the almost slip of seven or 5k ft clue? I like to think its at 7k ft – which is where I’ll be end of Sept. Dal will you be around west Yellowstone?

      • except i dont think Forrest has told his wife where the chest is

        it is imperative that Forrest retains an absolute monopoly on that information, and thats why he said so in TTOTC

        the possible ramifications of even letting one other person know, no matter who it is, could ruin everything. think about the value of the treasure and how long he spent setting this up

      • It was at 7k ft, 7,040 ft to be exact. Another clue that the treasure was hidden at Hanging Lake, CO is on page 34 of TTOTC. This is the page that provides the rough longitude of the treasure, as previously posted by Chris Yates:

        Your efFORT will be WORTH the cold >> Fort Worth postage mark >> 10 July >> 10 7 >> 107.

        The latitude comes from the vertical (naturally) string of 4 Ds that end the lines of the same stanza: 4D >>> 40.

        (These coordinates are helpful hints that one is in the right area but were never intended to be enough to pinpoint the treasure. The same is true for this hidden-in-plain sight hint: http://lummifilm.com/images/mappax.jpg)

        Anyway, look at the bottom picture. It is a photograph of Hebgen Lake, which, of course, sounds somewhat like Hanging Lake. More importantly, in the photograph, there is a log floating in it. The most striking feature of Hanging Lake, besides the blue-green water itself, is the long log which stretches most of the way across it.

        Finally, don’t forget Tea with Olga >> T + OLGA >> AT LOG.

  20. There are two phrases of past tense in the poem. As I have gone….
    If you’ve been wise and found….
    Think your supposed to find it before you go?

    • Yes, it’s all in black and white in the book. Subtly there, but there if you know how to look at them.

  21. When u get to nigh we think take a left.
    Then it’s says no paddle UP your creek

    So do u go down cause my left or do u go up ?

      • and “below” opens up three potential directions for me…”downstream”, “south” and “under”…

          • Could‘below’ have a missing ‘L’ ? Bellow, as in: “Hom-eeeeeer! Hom-er Brown”. “Coming Mother” No wait, it was, “Hen-reeeeeeeeeeeee! Hen-ree Al-drich!” … one of the most famous signature sounds in radio (1939-1953) per Wiki.

            Does this Sound familiar? … Henry “…attends classes mainly in the principal’s office. With a talent for head-on collisions, always ingenious, never crafty, always there with an answer, never with the right one, brash, bouncing, rumpled, rattled, rueful by turns,…”

            Henry’s best friend, Homer Brown, was … “Considered somewhat of a dim-wit, Homer is nervous and a food lover. However, he is also fairly dependable, and helps Henry whenever there’s a predicament.”

            I’ll bet that during those years, Skip and Forrest were sometimes referred to as Henry and Homer.

            Wiki says the plots were weak (tired too?)
            Aldrich family … Old riches? Plots… cemetery? I don’t have much confidence In this coincidence trail, but I do enjoy recalling those evening of laughter before there was TV. I imagine some older searchers will too.

    • Amy…I don’t understand what you mean but let me say that I have generally considered “down” to open up two potential directions…one is “downstream” and the other is “south”…

      • Dal…I agree with your interpretation of “down”, but I think a 3rd could be lower in elevation, even if it is upstream and north. I discovered this when I “put in” below Dark Canyon which was down from my WWWH which was Spence Hot Springs higher in elevation up the mountainside…but I’m not wearing the bracelet yet so who knows? cynthia

      • Dal- What about straight down, as you are on the edge of the canyon and slide down on your butt staining those pants brown. :))))

        • Sure…Maybe “under” too..
          So “below” could mean “downstream”, “South”, “down below” or “under”…

          Sounds like enough possible directions to keep me occupied for awhile when/if I get there… 🙂

          • Dal-
            Here is another. How about if you where to look down Main street? Depending on which end of the street you are standing then down could be north, south, east west, or even uphill. My point is I guess it would be determined by the way you entered the area.
            Could down mean- away from where you are standing?
            Finding out what the blaze actually is will determine down’s meaning in “Look quickly down…”.
            That should be easy enough? 🙂

  22. I’ve been watching Dal’s blog and making notes for a while. At one point someone pointed out “palindromes” exist in the poem, along with twin phrases. Palindromes are symbols, numbers, or words which are equal on both sides. ie: 10701; 44; level; radar; kayak. Possible twin phrases may be marvel gaze/gravel maze. My question is why are palindromes important to Forrest? Is there a middle child disorder that wants things even on both sides…lol. Wondered if it was a Native American or spiritualist ideal related to afterlife. Any ideas?

  23. I have always thought his reference to sandwich, in particular pimento and cheese, was to draw our attention to the color. Red and yellow is the color the NM state flag

  24. Benchmarks, hello has anyone heard of them?
    The more I studied them the more convinced I felt, that they were going to point to the spot. I can’t believe it didn’t pan out

    Really, how is anyone supposed to find the location of something without the coordinates?
    I thought I had the 9 clues “unlocked”, but alas my image on Google Earth came from the sketching of 22 points in all. When we got there, the spot immediately didn’t feel right.
    It was all very logical, cleaver & meticulous, what’s a better way to put an X on a map ?
    Unfortunately, there are some 750,000 benchmarks across the US, various islands and territories. It’s not an easy task. Practically every word in ‘his’ poem will equate to a BM

    The survey markers may indeed play some role in this hunt, but now it looks like I have all winter to work on another angle, That is if WW III doesn’t breakout

  25. Ok a ” FlashLight” maybe at night u will see something flashing and u follow the light. Does that sound right:)

  26. A Sandwich lets see something that chest is between in the middle of something 🙂

  27. Put all of the clues together and what do you have? A complicated mess that is difficult to decipher and just sly enough to hide a major treasure chest full of gold and jewels and other valuables. Mr. Fenn’s clues are so simple that they are difficult to use. He is using signage like a grapette sign,a ball of string is the string theory or some form of it stringing words together. Pie town or love of pies might be the mathematical (spelling?) use or form of pie. I have mentioned before Fredrick Brown the Mystery writer; I believe Mr. Fenn used to read his novels. Who knows also those Marvel Comics do have a mystical place above a city that has a rainbow bridge that was damaged or destroyed. A marvel Gaze is what Halle Berry had in the X-men series was it not? She was called Storm? I have come up with some crazy clues and one I will not share is on my top list of where that damn chest is. Has anyone let time be their guide. I have a location for that too. No I will not share but good luck to you all I believe Stephanie or Dal or the Wolf and a few others will be the one to find this thing and Happy Trails. It needs to be found soon or we will all certainly go mad…… That of course is Mr. Fenn’s Master plan all along……Ms. Girl See you all at the finish line. LOL

  28. Heavy loads and water high.
    Hmmmm let’s see here where I search I know there is something there that is heavy loads and water high back in the day it was used for mining. And it’s up high the wood holds the water have to see if a blaze is there somewhere. If u begin At warm waters and go down you never leave from that dirt road. It’s there where the tree is blazed that I posted a photo of maybe I need to go further down. 🙂

  29. I remember our county fair. They had the best corn dogs. I tried my first burrito there. The best root beer.

    • Hey Forrest, normally I go to church but in recent months I have been thinking about it. It was a good sermon today. Well, got the OSB up.

      • The butterfly is mentioned on the last page could a butterfly image be the Blaze.
        Who knows 🙂

        • @ Amy, re: possible butterfly Blaze…
          1. look closely in TOTC on page with photo of golden frog and nuggets on bottom right; notice carefully the imprinted butterfly image on nugget on far right. A perfect butterfly.
          2.Inside of the wing is a secondary imprint .•. of 3 dots which could have several meanings.(Trinity, skull image, symbol for UR, etc)
          3. The “arrangement” of nuggets, frog, and coin could also be a hint as to the treasures placement near a stream, hidden beneath a log, etc. the items are very purposefully placed. Forrest loves beautiful details, which is clear from his scrapbooks.

          • Abloom

            Very interesting
            What would represent what’s under the frog? And look at frogs face looks like a triangle and 3 dots at each point of triangle ( eyes and mouth)
            Thank u for pointing this out

            Some of u have great eyes:)

        • Amy,

          How about this. If you find a butterfly blaze…then you have fluttered by the chest.

          • I did find a butterfly Blaze on a sign that leads to my area my husband searched there today but he did not find the chest . It’s at the very End of the road before u get on the main highway. I just have no idea at this time. But it sure would be nice to find IT:)

            An abloom I will take a look at that thank u

      • Sometimes I think there are clues in the scrapbook. He mentions my HOB quite often and it’s in his books. 🙂

          • It’s time 🙂
            Others need to know what the poem is about .
            Look at this world and see what’s going on it’s not good it’s scary 🙁
            Regardless I keep saying I will post my solve soon . And that’s ok cause we have searched the areas over and over . So if I can’t find it maybe someone else can:)

            When I tell a few people (my clients) about the poem and what I think it means they seem to be so lost, everyone is so caught up in this world and that’s sad.

            It’s been a great Chase I know more now than when I first started the chase.

            Sometimes we read in between the lines in life !!!!!

  30. Off topic…Have we firmed up dates for the Santa Fe conference?

    Why would Forrest tell the world about this treasure hunt…And then hand out clues to only the people reading this blog. ALL YOU NEED IS THE POEM, some resolve, and maybe a six pack. FF did not put this whole thing together just to watch his chest be discovered…He wants it to last. “1000 years would be perfect.” he says. I believe he has fun building up his rat maze and watching us all chase our tails when the instruction book is right in front of us. But there are so many people trying to milk as many clues as they can from every utterance the man makes…It’s laughable and ridiculous IMO. Focus on TTOTC and the poem…And the map in TFTW. End of story. again…IMO. But as long as people insist on inventing clues where there are none, I don’t have to concern myself with them finding the chest….they are too distracted by his wonderful but clueless scrapbook entries.

    • Michael D, most everybody would agree with you. I do agree with you. There are no clues in the scrapbooks! Now hints on the other hand, that’s a different story… IMO of course… since we all have one.

    • Hmmmmm… Mr. Mike D – I can’t confirm it yet but in regards to his scrapbook stories I disagree with your assessment. Here’s why – When I was young I was on price is right – after losing the car playing the $9 game – we watched the replay again multiple times and he actually told me the answer I just failed to listen well. There are several scrapbooks and videos Mr. Fenn has posted confirming my blaze – he’s doing the same thing Bob Barker did but this time I’m ready….

      • There is a game afoot BUT proceed cautiously everyone sees what they want in his posts. How can you be sure your associations are correct? Only the chest will work as proof.

        • It is interesting how we tend to find confirmations so readily yet totally ignore stuff that tends to refute our “conclusions”. It is quite fascinating the extent some will take it even though they seem so rational otherwise. A good example is the gal who still is insisting that she solved this chase when she ended up at a statute in Silverton. A few others seem to have tagged into her delusions too. It explains a lot about the state of human affairs these days. Is there a term to describe this phenomenon?

          • Raven, it’s called delirium! It is also what leads to marriage and and loss of car keys.

          • Raven-

            The state of human affairs is showing that people are craving adventure.
            I have been told that chasing a chest of gold in the Rocky Mountains is delusional in itself.

          • Raven, hear slurbs.
            ES Tylenol helps the headache, but for
            Take the Haldol.
            And press the ‘reset’ button.

    • I agree Michael…but less so..
      I agree that the poem is all we need.
      I also believe that the scrapbooks and vignettes and other contributions he makes here and on other blogs are intended to encourage and point us in the right direction…I think a lot of people get that…others have their heads turned and don’t even realize they are being pointed.

      I think Forrest is purposeful in all he does..as prone to errors as we all are…. but still his intention is to provide enlightenment and push us to look closer at the real source of clues…the poem. I think that instead of providing hints and clues about where the treasure is located he is giving us direction to understand what the poem tells us.

      Additionally, I think he really wants to share his enthusiasm and love and respect for the people that made history and prehistory in the American west and elsewhere.

      • I agree with you and Michael……..Fenn said he’s not going to give out any useful information; I believe him.

        Any information he gives out that would, in hindsight, have anything to do with the treasure is inadvertent. He knows everyone is dissecting his every word so he’s using that to promote the chase, express his opinion, and share things with us he finds interesting. He really is a master of marketing. There is nothing wrong with that; I find his scrapbook post and vignettes interesting and fun to read.

        Of course some obsessive searcher could take the inadvertent information and it might lead them to the chest. For example there are those that are absolutely sure it’s in Wyoming or in New Mexico because of things he’s said and stories he’s written. So they focus all of their attention to that one state or area. They are correct in their assumption by being wrong about what he is saying. Even a blind pig can find an acorn once in awhile. I honesty don’t think the obsessive, overly imaginative, searchers have a prayer finding the chest because they are blinded by their thoughts and not seeing what’s actually in front of them.

        Of course this is my opinion…..and I don’t have the chest.

    • Question for you Michael D related to your Uranium solve I read on this blog – which was stellar btw (Germanguy’s too). If Uranium or any issue was the catalyst behind Forrest hiding his treasure; and he intended totc & his life to make a difference… Logically, wouldn’t ff want it found in his lifetime – to know a difference was made? Whether in cleaning up Uranium from the environment or halting it’s processing on NA lands?? Just trying to determine if the quest is simply a family adventure or if a higher agenda is in play. IMO, it makes a difference in clue interpretation and ultimate solve to location.
      Anyone have ideas?

      • Hello Abloom, Rich Uranium ore is referred to as “yellow cake” which looks a lot like the color of gold. World superpowers and terrorists both strive to have as much as they can get…of both.

      • abloom,

        The Uranium solve was actually done by me. In bringing on M.D. as a partner, it just blew him away when he read my solution. He was 100 % convince in the logic behind it, as well as the hiding spot. Unfortunately, he ran into a number of snags in locating it and from what I understood from him, he had to abandon any further searching, after which, he decided my area was still good and decided to try other spots there.

        As far as Forrest hoping to be around to see if anything came of resolving the recovery of areas polluted by uranium, I don’t feel that had much relevance in his choosing his hiding spot. He is big on seeing the natural resources protected, which was one of the reasons behind my solution. Conservation. Don’t forget, in TTOTC he is standing by an aircraft that is armed with an atomic bomb.

        I’d choose the “just a family adventure”.

  31. My husband is in Colorado searching again:) 3 rd time this month. I decided to stay home due to the traveling and having to swing back into work, it can sure make one tired 🙂 !!!!!!!

  32. Here is one more way to think about the overall meaning of the poem to Forrest.

    At the very least, the poem pays homage to Forrest’s father, his mother, Eric Sloane, and Emilia Earhart.

    Looking down at Hanging Lake using Google Earth, the log stretched across it makes it look very much like a Greek theta. If we view the hidey place to the east of the lake as symbolized by an X, and put them together, we get Thx, a common abbreviation for Thanks.

    Perhaps at the end of the day the poem was designed to express gratitude to his closest loved ones, friends, and role models.

  33. Hi Dal can I ask a question please; what are peoples thoughts on the relationship between title passing and being in the wood?


    • Pip-
      IMO–“In the wood” means you are at the spot and “give you title” means the chest is yours.
      I also think that “brave and in the wood’ will give confirmation to my thoughts of the area before I travel.
      I read another post which stated a title to the chest and contents could be behind the wood liner of the interior of the chest.
      If I found the chest I definitely would be looking behind the wood liner but I not understand how that could make me brave.

      • Hi Safety Joe, thanks for your reply. Can I assume that you believe the spot where the treasure is has trees? IMO “In the wood” seems to suggest this. Perhaps a rocky outcrop surrounded by trees?

        And that’s an interesting idea that maybe Forrest did place title behind the wood liner.

        Again thank you and cheers.

      • If there is a paper title to the chest it is most likely in the sealed jar with the autobiography. But I did have a theory once that ‘in the wood’ meant that a secret clue was hidden on the wooden lid. Studied the lid in quite a bit in all the photos available.

  34. Stephanie from Chicago,

    I recall you mentioned not long ago that your husband was scheduled for some open heart surgery. Been thinking about you and my prayers are with you and your husband and hope all goes well or perhaps has already gone well.

    Grace and peace to you…as you know..the heart is key to the chest.

    • Thanks Windsurfer. He’s not had the open heart yet. He still has to go for an angiogram to see if they should router his little arteries while they fix the aneurysm and give him a new valve. Then he has to meet with the surgeon and then pick a date. We were thinking the end of October, but we were talking about trying to go to the convention. I think the chance to be involved in such a meetup after putting so much into this would be a big time fail.

  35. just because you’re paranoid dont mean they’re not after you

    and just because your confirmation bias makes you see something as right, don’t mean it’s wrong

    • hey Chris,

      Your comment is very curious. How on earth did you come up with this? Is it possible for you to elaborate further regarding the references in the poem…never thought about the Irish connection.

      Check this out… the Irish insignia for the Air Force has an FF “in the middle” of it. No idea what the FF means…or anything else for that matter.

    • @Chris Yates: Given your name CY, can we expect a well researched, rhyming discussion of possible Yeats connection to Forrest’s poem? 😉

  36. I would like to ask all of you the following… If we find a butterfly/flutterby, where would you say the treasure would be located? Before said butterfly, at the butterfly area, or after the butterfly? Chime in please.

    • @slurbs – great riddle to ponder. Is the butterfly yellow and orange? (just kidding) If your question is metaphorical my guess is the treasure chest would be located before the flight, as metamorphosis takes place in the cocoon or Forrest’s stages of life change are represented w/in the chest; the final flight of said butterfly would represent fruition of a transformed life and spirit set free. Just my opinion; most curious to hear your thoughts.

      • Abloom, if you could hear my thoughts, you would hear screams and me crying out in frustration. The voices in my head just don’t stop. Argh! How long can this go on? I didn’t go out searching this weekend and I should have. I am berating myself. I have all of the answers to all of the questions yetwen I ask myself the simple question of “why?”, I have no answers. All I hear from myself are excuses. Very few know what I’m talking about. Sheesh! I want to open up but my voice just goes ever more silent. I am one of the most patient people that I know and I find myself at my breaking point with my emotions! Oh, when will this madness end? Why are my emotions being persecuted? HELP!!! ME!!! I must stay calm, I’ve got this. Right? Argh (frustrated)!

        • Slurbs, as Mr. Fenn wrote, only you know your thoughts. That is, until you ask for help. ‘Why’ is a loaded question; not certain what’s troubling you and anyone can drive them self to distraction chasing their own thoughts. First line of defense is talk to your spouse/family, or another man who you trust their counsel; who offers sound advice based in truth. Perhaps a tylenol PM to get some sleep tonight. Please talk to someone who knows and cares about you. Let us know how you are tomorrow.
          People on the blog really do care.

      • Slurbs, just checking in to see if you are feeling better today. Do you have an email where I could direct an article about peace of mind? It may help to take a respite from totc and enjoy a different hobby for a season. Anyway, hope today is more peaceful for you.

    • slurbs,
      I’ve shot numerous butterfly photos while searching; many are blurry because they “flutter by” so quickly. So my answer would be (IMO) “at the butterfly area.” I should be able to shoot some more photos a week from tomorrow, weather permitting.

      • Slurbs

        I found a butterfly on a sign, Duane searched the area , but he didn’t find the chest . I knew it had to be there .
        Just breath and take your time with the research winter will soon be in the Rockies and not many will be searching. You have plenty of time to research still. Keep it simple .
        The chest has been hidden for 4 years . 🙂 we love all the searchers 🙂 !!!!! We all have something in common 🙂

          • Wind,
            You reminded me of something I’ve been dealing with as I tell people about my trip to Colorado.

            Basically, I’ve been told it’s a wild goose chase, and that I won’t find it, and that it’s a “childish” thing to do.
            I don’t think it’s childish. Maybe child-like, but I pride myself on remaining child-like through adversity.

            Like I’ve told so many–I don’t care if I find it or not.

            Sometimes the thrill of the chase is more important than finding the treasure at the end.

            And there’s no doubt I’ll be taking home treasure, even if it is just memories, 🙂

    • It would be at a place before the butterfly but then the butterfly. So it seems you are catching on more than most. Stay on track, you sit in the center of the world. What great place to be.

    • If you were a butterfly where would your release be? At the end of the beginning ? Or would you have an end to a beginning if you were already a butterfly?
      Nope just a beginning and an end. At the End


    “The end is ever drawing nigh (left hand side)” Wondering how others view this part of the poem. What does end mean? Would end be referring to the secret spot? And if so is it possible to say that the secret spot would be on the left hand side as one enters the place where Forrest went alone into.

    • Chameleon- A question needs an answer, so I will give you one. Whether it’s correct is a different story. 🙂

      The poem is straight-forward, so ‘end’ means the secret spot; but then again, we are trying to solve clues, not read a poem.

      Good luck!

      Here’s to a hope I might get out and search again for this year and see if I can get my bravery to be more than just words.

    • And on the left had thing, f’s body language has said just as much. He’s a superb poker player, but he has his moments.

      • Chameleon, imo ‘the end is ever drawing nigh’ could have multiple layers of meaning:

        1. the end – look for an omega shape.
        2. continuously pulling left or making left turns to the secret spot.
        3. ‘drawing’ could mean petroglyphs or natural landmarks indicating the end spot
        4. end of the search
        5. vantage point keeps disappearing around oxbows in the river.
        6. the point where time and eternity intersect is drawing near.
        7. God is noted as being Alpha & Omega or the Beginning and the End; so implies you will meet death and your maker soon.
        8. Rime of the Ancient Mariner – he is drawn to both his homeland and heaven.
        9. If the trail is circular; then as you progress you are continually getting close to the beginning and end.

        [Not trying to complicate, but given Mr. Fenn’s intellect and varied interests (fishing, literature, art, NA’s, History, nature, philosphy) I believe all applications could apply to the same place.]

        • abloom thanks for your input. I’m leaning toward your number 2. Omega seems subjective but might be possible as a visual aide.

          • Perhaps a coded message in this bit by Forrest. Maybe on the left hand side of the tight canyon. This looks like an entrance cleverly encoded soldier’ ‘s. Anyone see this and nigh is used??

            “When war is rife, and danger’s nigh,
            ‘God and the soldier’ ‘s all the cry.
            When the war is o’er, and the danger righted,
            God is forgotten, and the soldier slighted.” *

          • anyone think the tc could be in a hanger or church graveyard?Just thinking outside the box since my other creative solves failed.

    • “The end is ever drawing nigh;” is not alone in the sentence. you must use the entire sentence to understand what the poem represents. There’ll be no paddle up your creek, Just heavy loads and water high.” This sentence a chuck full of hints and meanings.

      End meaning : finish or boundary or border. Ever ; always. drawing : art, pulling or drainage. Nigh : near, close or left side.
      There’ll, Why not there will? why does the Author use this? there is a reason. No paddle up your creek ; a difficult situtation, in a bind, between a rock and a hard place. All represent No place for the meek.

      But not just one single meaning of the words will solve the poem, IMO. If using the line “The end is ever drawing nigh” one may see it as directions… the end of the boundary line . as well as near a natural drainage, following a passage between two walls. and a left at the fork… this is just an example.

      Another way of reading this line is, Every living thing comes to an end. It is not easy to face such reality, and leaves one feeling trapped.

      And yet another could possibly mean, an end of a time period… a period of difficult habitation… etc. these are just a few ideas of the meanings in this sentence…

      Many meanings to each word and phrases used in the poem, it makes the poem seem to head in all directions… Useless one should use all the multiple meaning to come to a single conclusion.

      The poem has many layers to understand. And all the layers flow with all the meanings to come to a conclusion. IMO.

      Hope that helps.

        • Mindy,
          I don’t look at it so much as missing letter, as much as number count of words… Yes i do understand most don’t feel there is counting of anything involved, but i see information in doing this. Example; why are there 6 stanzas, 4 lines per stanza, 9 sentences and 25 capital letters?

          As much as the words are important to the solve, IMO so is the format and structure of the poem. 15 years in the making… I personally see a terrific amount of information that needs to be used.

          • Seeker,
            I’m not really sure, I was hoping you’d know. But I have a theory. I have gone through about 1000 cockamamie theories since I started researching. I’ve posted about 999 of them here. Lol.
            21 is my favorite number, though. It was my number in high school and college basketball and volleyball. 🙂

          • I don’t see why W would work, I could be wrong. But here’s one for you to ponder… Why are there 5 I’s in the poem and who are they?

            When reading the entire 1st stanza, most will see FF as I. He went alone in there… Alone, does not only mean single or by oneself. it can mean, to a new place for the first time, Its can mean first to do it.

            So In reading the 1st stanza I ask who is I? My theory is the Author is narrating who I is and cleverly concealing who I is by making the readers think it him.

            Treasures are not troves. A treasure is possession important to one. Trove is riches or value. So what treasures is I taking? to his secret where. Secret, in this case, means to hide or out of sight.

            I does not become FF till the 5th stanza when he ask his question to the readers
            “So why is it I must go And leave my TROVE for all to seek? IMO

            So try reading the poem starting with the 5th stanza to the 6th as Fenn and 1-2-3-4 as narration of I.

            Just a thought.

          • Chris, you’re right. I was going from memory with my count of the w’s. I just got home and checked my notebook, and it is 23. 24 if you count the one missing.
            I could have sworn I’d written 21 in my notebook.
            I guess I’ve written so many numbers in the last few months that I’m easily confused. Lol.

      • Seeker – Wow. Terrific info and input! thank you for sharing your insights, which had not occurred to me.

        • Could 23 or 32 magic number of a section of land “where” = keep my secret “War heros” here or UU here? Perhaps 9.64 is a road reference. Another thought that’s been percolating… with Forrest dedicating much sentiment and importance in both memoirs to fallen comrades there may be a special place for soldier’s (perhaps the 5 I’s are fallen vets he promised to honor) in a special way, laying to rest friends who didn’t return to their families as Forrest did. I know of place that would fit but need to research the area and poem’s elements further, as it changes my HOB, but still feasible.

          • abloom,

            I personally keep it simple. Such as the example of the stanzas, lines, sentences etc. The other thing is, and I know someone will jump all over this… I don’t use the book, just the poem.

            But back to the number counts. Example: there are 7 words in the 1st line 5 in the 2nd, 6 – 7 in the remaining lines. Or one can look at it as stanza 1 – 25 words. Or that there is 42 space from A in As to the T in treasure. These are just a few examples I see.

            Not to mention the Capital letters. which I won’t, seem no one puts a mind to them anyways.

          • When you keep in mind that every word is deliberate, you can’t rule out numbers, capitals, or punctuation.

  38. Nigh I have taken a left at the end of the dirt road, I have taken a right ( no paddle UP your creek) which put me up higher . We have been everywhere thru the town past the town at the very very bottom, and now my Wood is way different 🙂

    • It is interesting that the definition of Nigh is near, close or left side. Not unlike Far meaning right side. Maybe the side is not what we need to understand as in a right turn or left turn…
      Maybe Nigh [ In Fenn language] means west or 270 degrees as well as Far being east… just a thought.

  39. Slurbs. Slurbs. Slurbs! Your little riddle will take some pondering! Begin it where? I hear voices all of the time too! We had a bee colony swarm twice in the same week. The local beekeeper said that was very unusual. I bet a butterfly migration would be cool too,

  40. Just a thought about “And leave my trove for all to seek?”

    Is it possible that not only does he mean “to remain” for leave, but also “to cover ” the trove with leaves?

    • what he means and doesn’t mean are both important

      But he finally capitulated, saying that I had misapprehended what he meant by the phrase “GET OUT,” and reminded me that I was still hired in fine standing, and the dishes were piling up

        • i think that f did a thorough vetting of his poem as it were. using the proper logic and reasoning to extract some of the clues, some of them will lead to the wrong place and so he put confirmers in the poem to establish the correct clues and hints in the book for the wrong ones. no subterfuge.

          the dream story right after the poem hints at some of this i think.

          the wording in that story tho makes me wonder if he buried a bell or jar there.

          • Chris Yates, i believe you are correct, f was thorough in vetting his poem. Also, for the longest time I’ve instinctively known there would be beautiful, artistic details to the solve because of his attention to the beauty of language and details in his collections. Today, illumination dawned. Have you considered how beautiful symmetry would be to an aviator/nautical man like ff? my humble theory is that he might enjoy the beauty of a compass rose and may collect them.have 4special places one located at each of the cardinal points. I suppose that’s complicating it. I would like to run ethicquestion by someone with wisdom on blogging; do you have email which i could ask a question. If not, I could ask Dal for help with the email issue.

    • BW – I’ve dug through leaves and also wood shavings up to my knees ‘in the wood.’ Only problem is decomposition through the seasons (if in the cold north) Then it would be ‘muck my trove for all to seek’ 🙂

      If inside of a cave all could be in play – leaves, ashes, wood shavings, or a feathered nest from the past. N’est se past?

    • Hey BW,

      Boy do I hope you are right on this one. Means I will spend less time in the water floundering about. Your “leave” pun is exactly how my latest thought process is attempting to solve the puzzle. well done.

  41. I think that the word ‘alone’ may be there to confirm the proper interpretation of the word ‘I’

    It may not be too much of a stretch to also think that it has to do with, if you are in the wood and looking for a trail. The trail is there, I know its there, because ive been there. I found a half eaten corn on the cob someone left behind my last trip.

    I am getting ready to make one more search and I think that will be it for me. I don’t know where else I would look.

  42. I’m excited to be heading out tomorrow with my son!

    You start at the beginning. The place where he’s been alone with his treasures is his home. From there (see first sentence), it’s no place for the meek.

    The meek will inherit the Earth, so he is in his plane.

    Or, in the armchair point of view, you pull out a good map. But you don’t really need it.

    The end is drawing nigh= just Google semicolon and you’ll know what this sentence means.

    So you will definitely cross into Colorado.

    And as far as omegas, infinity, understatement, overstatement, twins and all that, there is something geologists and navigators and pilots have all heard of. It’s hyperbola. And I believe that is the blaze we are looking for (on one level).

    I think it is now truly becoming a chase, and maybe a race!

    If I find it, in honor of Renelle and all the countless others who have left in life’s fullest blossom, I will donate very generously in the hopes that a cure will be found.

    And if I don’t find it, I will have given my son a treasure of beautiful memories he will reflect on for the rest of his life.

    So, on to new places and new adventures and fresh starts! 🙂

    • My warmest wishes to you and your son Mindy! Have a wonderful time together and thank you for such generosity of spirit to donate a portion to cancer research. I survived stage 3 but with ongoing problems. You’ve touched my heart today.

      • Thank you Swan and Chris. I’ve lost loved ones to cancer. It’s a terrible thing. I also am going to donate to autism awareness, I have Aspergers, and my son has a little bit of selective mutism. I want to help change the perception that autistic people don’t have empathy. The truth is, we have too much.

        It’s the reason I can barely watch the news without crying.

        And just forget me ever seeing “Heaven is for Real.” Me and my son bawled our eyes out just during the trailer. 🙂

    • CY, oui, couldn’t resist a little pun fun today. Trying to refocus. Renelle’s story hits close to home for me as it does for many. I’m not ready to look down from above yet.

      I always appreciate your thoughtful, intelligent input. Hope you are well Chris:)

  43. In deciding what the meaning is behind “Where warm waters halt”, I offer up this observation. Ocean water at 70 degrees feels warmer than fresh water at 70 degrees. Why? Think about it.

      • Salt used on ice, lowers the temperature. That means it would be colder, not warmer. Think of an ice cream maker. I am not interest in ice, I’m talking of fluid water. The water temperature is influenced by the specific gravity of water and saline. Heat loss from one’s body is more extensive and more rapid in fresh water than in salt water. The salt serves as an insulator, in theory.

  44. I, like most of you have been blind. I think, the clues , are references to geographic features in a map, but I do not think those features are related to the search until you get to the place. Once you get to the place, the clues get a different meaning altogether. That is why the first clue is so important. Look in Taos, NM. RC.

  45. Yeah! We are searching for the treasure chest, but in reality we are searching for the “quest” without knowing it. Go look in Taos, NM, and look for the treasure chest, and not the quest.RC

  46. I’m not very good at science, either. That’s one reason I’m bringing my future rocket scientist son along! Lol

  47. Mindy

    Have a safe adventure
    Girl it’s somewhere in Colorado
    It’s has to be .
    Have a wonderful time with your son and good luck 🙂

    • My best wwwh was in Colorado, but would fit other places I’m still working on. It started where two waters that a “conservationist” would care about getting warm. The problem is that it’s not very near that trail. So I seem to get off “track”.

  48. Has anybody looked for the treasure in Taos? I think the treasure is in there. Research Arthur Manby. Good luck.

    • RC-
      Lots of searchers have looked in not only Taos but all around Taos. The Manby connection has been discussed frequently since the first few months of the treasure hunt. There are searchers in that area right this minute…but so far no one has reported finding the chest.

        • RC-
          umm…what map? He died in his home. I have two books on Manby. They both give descriptions of the scene when the authorities went into his hacienda to find out what happened to him. No map needed as far as I can tell…

          • ahhh..I see…I should not have called it a map in the story. It’s a floor plan really. Shows the layout of the hacienda at the time of Manby’s death and where the body was found..the head was found…the dogs were found…
            It was part of the report along with Doc Martin’s autopsy. I suppose it originally came from the county sheriff’s office and was part of their investigation, but I don’t know that for sure. The copy I had was loaned to me by an historian not associated with the Taos Sheriff’s Office. I returned it when I was done with it. I have heard that it’s still an open murder investigation so I don’t know if a copy of that report can be obtained from the County under FOIA. Perhaps it can.

          • Dal,

            How fun would it be if some of the gold in Forrest’s chest was some of Manby’s missing gold that somehow Forrest has found (he has stated he knows who killed Manby)… 🙂

            I agree, my research into Manby states that he died in his home as well…

  49. Has anyone else received the ” poker hand ” ? I never hear anyone talking about it. I understand why too….lol I recieved it back in March. Its five pictures , with Forrest Fenn being the middle pic.
    It popped up on me while looking in google maps. It was only at one level, kinda zoomed out. I only got to see it that one time, once I closed it out it was gone. good thing I wrote them down and found more pics similar to keep my memory fresh…..I was looking at the Jemez mountains when, boom , there was Forrest Fenn’s face staring right at me…lol

    Just wondering if anyone else has had this happen to them…

    • No, never saw it. Very curious … Those hacker talents are way beyond my skills, but please clarify what / how / where you received the image in Jemez. Thx

      • I dont think this was hackers…. lol An indian with sagebrush maybe…..

        I was looking on the eask fork Jemez river, near Jemez Falls, just downstream . McCauley warm springs, look down to the box canyon. That is where I was looking, then when I zoomed out some, the Pics popped up. Only on one level. just wondering if anyone else had this happen to them…

        • Arkansas

          If u have Facebook messenger on your phone get rid of it delete it out of your apps.

          I heard that whoever is being nosy ( the government) they can read and do all sorts of stuff with your phone.

          • Amy

            It was on my desktop….. 5 pics joined together in a row, with Forrest in the middle pic….

        • Thanks for your reply. I think you meant you were on Google Earth, not google maps, right?
          Joker in the middle interests me…

          I think ‘middle’ has a lot to do with the search, or at least in the well developed trail of hints I see running thru the book (not the poem though)… That junior high stunt was done in ‘middle school’, and I suspect, school is Yellowstone…. which is completely contrary to all my New Mex associations. I may as well let go of some old Yellowstone stuff right here (had posted it 4 years ago anyway)… in First GRADE, the parking slots may = the 2 Park Counties (WY & MT) & the principal’s door is the principle doorway to the park. Next the BIDDIES are at the gate… cant cross here (I’ll leave out why) so since its at a church social, (streams are his church) follow the stream and cross down at … well, you get my kind reasoning (it uses no numerology, syllable counts, etc, just simple logic, deduction, association, etc.) . But I cant match my book trail to the poem, so that might be another circular end-beginning do-over riddle. Sometimes even the fun gets frustrating.

          • Old Shadows,

            Yes, I meant “google Maps”. Forrest was the middle pic. I already know that he is a joker in real life….. why not on the poker hand….:)

            I read the rest of your reply… interesting….
            I used logic , common sense, imagination, etc…in my solve…went by chance a few times too …. that got me stuck between a rock and a hard place :)…church social ? The biddies usually park in the upper parking lot to be closer to the door….The rest of the normal people park in the lower one…. I like it better anyway….. so, what do the biddies know, I enjoy the walk outdoors…

            As far as the pics that popped up on me…. there are 5.. Forrest in the middle… I still think its the poker hand…

          • Arkansas, Old Shadows – I’m interested in the 5 on-line photos of f you refer to with the poker hand. Would you kindly tell me where to find those? Thank you for your help. I’ve been dealt 4 cards, but am curious about the Joker. Thx

  50. 44 444 40 440 4440 4444 4400 maybe with a little luck we will get the combination right. This could be the combo to the safe that holds the gold….or would that be the key?

    • I feel like I’m back in junior high spinning the combo to my locker round and round past all those 4’s and gonna be late to class.

  51. It may not be a ” poker hand ” , but at the front of the book it says that fate deals four cards and a joker…. I see Forrest as being the joker…

    • Kansas ? The only ” Dorothy ” I know owns a bookstore in Santa Fe…and I don’t think her dog is named ” ToTo “.

      Get some rest…zzzzzzzzz

    • …zzzZZZ geez, a nap is hard to get with all this talk about from Pole To Pole and Poes poetry connections. reminds me about people in mi life are bipolar and how you have to walk on egg shells to keep them in the middle. I would give away my best clues rather than be accused of not helping’em find that chest and reep the poler effect. Let’s play canasta today instead. Gives hot waters and cold shoulder a whole new meaning.

  52. Thought I’d introduce a new concept for you all to chew on:

    I’ve struggled with the idea of there being nine clues in the poem. Basically, it seems difficult to whittle it down to only nine. That just doesn’t seem to fit with his statement that he chose every word carefully and there being 24 lines of poetry.

    So I looked up nine in the dictionary and one definition is “The Nine. The Muses.” The Muses are goddesses from classical mythology, basically patrons of the arts.

    So then I looked up Muse in the dictionary and found the next interesting definition: “the genius or powers characteristic of a poet.”

    So when he says there are “nine clues”, does he really mean there are any number of genius/poetic clues? That seems a little whacky, but it’s mighty interesting, don’t you think?

    • I’m hopeful. Right now I’m trading euro pips. Maybe take a lunch and don’t forget to pack a fork and spoon. Pretty blooms along the way, hay and remember safety too. Some are skeptical but that was me back in the day, before I had my golden retriever.

  53. It’s funny that in the above picture of Forrest with the tree on the blog sure looks familiar I wonder where that was taken 🙂

  54. Thats right… I hope to play my joker soon…..wwwh – got it…… hob – got it….etc.

  55. all five photos are not of Forrest…. just the one in the middle… the other 4 are all different….

    • Sorry abloom , I hit the wrong button…lol they popped up on me one time while on google maps looking at Jemez mountains near Jemez Falls….

  56. Ark if you look hard enough you’ll find Forrest on GE. The photo i found points to a specific mountain in the search area. I look at it every day and smile.

    • JJ
      Can u post picture or tell us how to get to it to look it up
      Thank u if u want to share that

  57. Update: no treasure today, but haven’t completed my area. The highlight was almost stumbling on a HUGE BULL moose! We were walking along the lake, eyes on the pristine water, when my son grasps my arm and whimpers. I look up and see a huge pair of pink antlers not ten feet away.
    We backed away slowly, and took some pics and video from a safe distance. What a rush!

    • Just got a solid cell signal! Been searching Colorado. I have excellent pictures and a strong sense of where it is (and where it isn’t), but thunderstorms and loss of daylight prevented us from going all the way.

      We had the adventure of a lifetime, including a run in with a huge bill moose! Story coming soon!

  58. It is Interesting to think of the chase as a sociological experiment ..some thoughts to ponder:
    the blog is a big card table and we are all a bunch of poker players; we’re friends but nobody shows their hand, we all keep upping the ante but nobody calls so the hand continues….

    And another curious Question…Who are we in our real life versus who we are in the chase life; is it one and the same or are they two very different people…

    Just some of the things I think about…

    • @ jdiggins: interesting sociological question.
      ok, I’m undaunted in the courage department and ready to go All-in. I call – reveal my hand…

      Texas Hold’em: Forrest Fenn owns the table; he holds all the chips and the joker. As long as his hand is concealed, players have two choices… 1.Fold 2. Up the ante and keep your seat.

      the river: lurkers playing behind the scene who hold an entire hand in the hole, and also see what’s been played via Dal’s blog.

      If I fold, I’m giving my solutions//seat to someone like Dal who’s earned it and plays fair, rather than to lurkers. People double deal behind the scenes, even f&f. Accountability should matter. A poker face is ok as long as the players are trustworthy.

      • 42…accountability does matter and trust as well. But I was always taught to not show my hand…even in a fold. Besides, nobody wants the discard. …Unless we are playing “go fish”. 🙂

      • I think the “lurkers” crawl into your computer…I believe that this blog is yet one more informational tool that people use. Nobody is going to tell all unless they fold, and maybe never then. I don’t believe any who speak here are intentionally misleading. Only those who can be mislead will be.

      • It’s the double dealers that give most things a bad taste when it comes to light… respectfully submitted, and of course only my opinion. Also, laying all of your cards out for all to see is not how most successful players win. Dal has been at this through the very beginning and has provided this site for all to use. It is not for me to say who is who, and who is what. I am just grateful there is a site like this to keep in tune w/ info from the Fenn. In my opinion, the only useful and important info I have seen here comes from the man himself. There is no other logical assumption…As far as LURKERS, I may be one of those because I rarely give opinions or ideas and choose not to get drawn in. So, back to lurking and researching. Can’t wait for more from Fenn ! How’s the book coming Dal?

        • Yeah..me too. Guilty. Lurker. Looking for Forrest and that’s about it. Think I’ll go back into hiding now….

          • Too bad this is not a game of Draw poker. I am sure alot of folks would like to throw a few clues away and draw a few more… :mrgreen:

          • @ Dal, since this blog is full of opinions thought I’d throw mine in on The Pied Piper of Santa Fe. not feeling the negative conotations; or marketability to many demographics. How about a contest to come up with names for Forrest’s biography? Catchy titles sell more books, especially when there is no treasure attached 🙂

            Swan’s suggestions:

            Of Lore and Valor
            He Sought The Chase
            One Hundred Years Too Late
            Roaming The Ragged Edge
            The Ragged Edge
            Trails Forged
            Trails Blazed
            A Name of His Own, Forrest Fenn
            Chase The Sand, Collective Works of Forrest Fenn

          • Dal,
            I like it. (I would hope that we searchers would be thought of as the children, rather than as the rats.)
            I’ll be shooting more photos where the “yellow and purple flowers flourish” day after tomorrow.

    • Jdig, isn’t all of life a sociological experiment? As far as poker goes, the chase seems to me like a game of Texas hold’em or seven card stud. Some of the cards are on the table for all to see, but no one shows their hole cards. Is anyone bluffing trying to misdirect the others? I think most think they have unbeatable hole cards hoping for the cards (clues) to make their hand perfect. Some have nothing but blank hole cards and think the deck is stacked……Then we have the dealer; but that’s a whole ‘nother discussion.

      As far as your second question: It doesn’t matter who you are it only matters who they think your are.

      I will tell you I’m the same charming guy in the “real world” as I am here. 🙂

    • I would throw into the mix that we are also not sure of what a winning hand looks like, but each of us is convinced we have it.

    • JD, I like your thoughts. The luxury of being anonymous can bring out the worst or the best in people.

  59. Interesting way to put it u are correct. This poker game is a tough hand. And nobody makes the call. We are so secretive about our own clues and thoughts. Why really is it that way if I said where I search and what the poems mean to me why can’t I just tell others , it’s not like they will be able to find the chest cause I have searched it and still searching ( Duane is right now) and we can’t seem to locate it. I told Duane this morning Good Lord it’s probably in Yellowstone lol. Reguardless duane thinks it’s where we search why does he feel this , I don’t know seems how I have interpreted it I guess.

    I believe I’m the same person here on this blog as when I’m not.
    My interpertation of the poem is about a person I have become closer with 🙂 !!!!! And that’s good 🙂

    • K. I’ll answer too…
      I’m 99.99% the same person off the blog…and why? Because normally I don’ t blog. This is the only time ever! other than that this is totally Who I am my husband and I enjoy rock hunting we’ve been doing it for many many years and this is just an extended version of it!
      I live in a forest so my internet is very limited at bestI have to use my smartphone and my little tiny 2 inch screen for all my research!
      We’ve hunted in many states and many times in Colorado as well and as far as showing my cards I don’t have the chest so I don’t think my cards work very well…lol!
      I’ve learned so much about things I otherwise may not have ventured to know, and every day is exciting to me!!!

  60. wwdh warm waters don’t halt,they keep coming, but somewhere the warmth changes. Even in the bowels of a geyser, the water trickles down warm and gets hotter.

  61. I think Warm Water bubbles out than gets cooler and cooler and it goes down the river. I see this at my favorite hot springs.

  62. And Forrest. It does not matter who they think you are……Its who YOU know you are…..Well for me anyway. LOL

  63. I believe Duane is about to finish his search. He is about worn out lol
    Searching does make u tired due to all the hiking and thinking.
    This year with all of our searches it has been fun and interesting. Glad we were able to be a part of the CHASE 🙂

  64. It was a great day for football here in Colorado. I just keep thinking about the Main Street Cowboys. All grown up and proud like it used to be watching from afar. Now for a frosty glass of 7-UP for a hard days work.

    • Haven’t you figured me out by now. I got fifty dollars in my pocket and I plan to keep it one ounce at a time. I have no more solves, it is time to finish last. I have a picture I took that will take me back to where I THINK it is. I will travel towards Montana soon, then I will toss in the towel. I spent a year and a half of my life trying to understand. Then one day I made a call and a person told me to read a story of how it all began.

      In the TTOTC book I have found lots of clues to where it is hidden.

      1. A map pointing to which state and nearest city it’s in. Not New Mexico
      2. The boy pointing.
      3. Saluting the president.
      4. The pie missing.
      5. Forrest and Peggy picture.
      6. The horses.
      7. His jars.
      8. Main Street Cowboys picture found somewhere else.

      So so many more. I think everyone needs to go back and read the book more than once and do your research. So many have come close. Yet, I feel I was in striking distance, he must of seen my picture.

      Here on this site, there is a clue in the picture of his first. There are many more. I use the word “AND” to separate my thoughts. Forrest does the same thing. That is how I caught on. I will take his advice and write my memoir.

      It is all referencing one place to me. Crazy thinking right. But then again, I don’t have the chest.

      Have I written Forrest about my solve? Why, he can read all my post.

  65. Good luck with your last search GEY.
    I completely understand your thoughts this is a tough chase:)

  66. If there is a correlation between Fenn’s 9 clues and 9 muses or poets, as someone proposed, which 9 poets would Fenn choose? Perhaps The Phantom {} knows…

    Poet-tries for 9:
    1. Khayyam
    2. Poe
    3. Wordsworth
    4. Coleridge
    5. Yates
    6. Walt Whitman
    7. Longfellow
    8. Thoreau
    9. Carrolle (ff quotes often)

    other strong contenders: Shelley, Keats, Kipling, Silverstein

    • I think the phantom did a great job of rephrasing the poem and including many dualities. (even his own name “phantom”) Maybe he was really excited about recognizing this in other poets/themes with f as well. My opinion is that he’s getting pretty close to understanding one of the clues…maybe he even found a duck 🙂

        • IMO – the Phantom likes to sing – Loud !

          Re: the duck :

          A hint at the winner is the color of the first duck.

        • @Pieces of 9: Good Morning from my peaceful pond. Swan is quietly swimming in the background since she is baffled by the Phantom’s poem. Have to admit I’m not picking up on any of the clues.. so rather than become a squawking goose or sitting duck to Phantom’s arrows, I’m gliding in the shadows. This entire sb is flying over my head, and if there are clues I’ve missed them all. Just a clueless swan enjoying her pond in scandinavia.

          • Swan, sometimes I find that sitting back and watching from afar calms the mind especially when the chatter becomes cryptic and chaotic making little cents to me. Ahhh, fall is a beautiful season here. I think I love it the most so perhaps it would be wise for me to do my best and enjoy it.

  67. I think the clues are all geographic features in a map. Mr. Fenn is a very clever person, and he know we will look for all those features in a map. I think, whoever finds the treasure chest would have proven that all those features are close together. And maybe closer than we think. We cannot find the treasure chest because we have been given clues to the end of the quest, and not the beginning. The beginning is where the treasure is, in my opinion. The end of the quest in Manby ‘s gravesite, but not in the way that you think. Is Manby’s gravesite where he died, or where he soul is?

    I have been searching,and researching, and still the idea as to where warm waters halt is escapes me. Maybe where warm water halts, and where warm waters halt is the same concept. Warm waters ,in the Rio Grande, coming from Colorado mix with the New Mexican Rio Grande cold waters and that is where you get warm waters halting, or warm water halting. The only difference is that Mr. Fenn uses plural(waters) and that tells me that wherever “warm waters halt” is somewhere in the Rio Grande where the warm waters coming from Colorado clash with the cold water from the New Mexican Rio Grande. WWWH is the biggest clue of them all ; although “As I have gone alone in there” is not just telling us that Mr. Fenn went somewhere, but it you look closely that clue will take you to Manby’s Hot Spring. Do a little reasearch and you will see what I am typing about. This is my opinion. RC

    • RC –

      With the snow pack High in the rockies – the water coming from Colorado is not warm = it’s cold as ice – trust me on that one. When they reach NM they get warmer.

      I think you are making this too hard on yourself. It’s not hard. Just think what makes warm waters and they cool off when they mix with a stream of cold water. 🙂

    • RC – Read Dal’s blog entry: Losing your head in Taos. Then look on your map for Hell, Hell’s canyon, El Diablo, El Infierno, etc. That’s where Manby is – metaphorically speaking.

    • Amy – right there with You on this one. Why would FF want to be associated with Arthur Manby in any way? Only thing that comes to mind is a metaphorical solve with spiritual meanings (I can almost solve it from a biblical viewpoint, but w/out any reference to the map. and most likely not applicable anyway). What do you think Amy?

  68. Can someone point me to where Forrest talked about Arthur Manby and what was said. Sorry, accidentally posted this in a scrapbook…disregard that post. Thanks!

    • Here is a post where Dal states Forrest is writing a book about Manby

      on May 24, 2013 at 5:56 pm said:

      Forrest is writing a book about Manby…I don’t believe it will offend anyone. He includes first and second hand reports that have never been printed before.

      Reply ↓

  69. Fall is my favorite time of year too! It is about to begin in full glory soon. My son says it smells like dead Summer and he can’t wait to smell Fall. He is kind of sad he might miss it since he is headed to Germany soon. It is the one thing I have heard him say he will miss! I hope to get out and enjoy it but working 6 days a week now and sleeping on the 7th! Not a Spring chicken anymore. OK I can’t leave Winter out. I enjoy it too in front of the fireplace! Just not too soon.

  70. I really think Mr. Fenn hid his treasure in New Mexico. In 1989 or so, there wasn’t any internet around. How could he propagate the idea of the treasure hunt in another state? I do not think he secreted it in another state. All the clues, in my opinion, and after doing lots of research, point to New Mexico. All clues point to the end of the chase, but if you “open” your ears, and eyes”, you will see, the clues point to a particular place. RC

    • RC,

      I have to ask. What made you believe or give you reason the chest is hidden in NM? I have asked this same question to others, that say one state or another, so my curiosity is up on how folks come to their conclusion.
      I’ll open this question to anyone who would like to share….

      I’ll put mine out there. Montana, just heavy loads and water high
      put me there.

      • Seeker* I know as much as you do, and that is not a whole lot. What I do know, or is that Mr. Fenn does not think like us, and he knows that. He, I think, used that in the poem to his advantage. When we look at the poem we see the clues as physical “places”, and Mr. Fenn knows that. What if you could describe something, anything, with different characteristics so any person would think you were talking about different places, but in reality you were only talking about one place. Any thoughts? RC

        • RC,
          For me there are no physical places to go. Not WW, HOB etc. the poem for me, just reads to a location he wants one to be, not so much follow this route to get there.

          My theory is about a time period… more or less. some places are here today, others are not. once your at the correct location, it time to use other parts of the poem to blaze the trail one “found” built into the poem.

          This is why I asked what led you to NM. how did the poem read out to take a searcher to a state or location? Some say you must find WWWH and Find a canyon and Find a house colored brown or a bear den or a park ranger… IMO all the poem does is place you in the location the chest is. The structure of the poem tells you where it is.

          The only place that is truly physical is the place the chest lays in wait. My problem now is reading the structure properly.

      • Forrest himself, kind of says that he hid it in New Mexico.

        (page 135)
        “…But those who will be living in the future really arouse my curiosity. Someday, will all of the land in NEW MEXICO be covered with houses and asphalt? ……..
        With populations increasing so rapidly maybe there won’t be room for a lot of things we enjoy doing today, like hunting and hiking and looking across THE DESERT just for the fun of seeing nothing at all. It seems so sad to me …….
        Most of those thoughts discourage me because there may not be any more HISTORY IN THE MAKING like there was in the past. And worse what can one person do that might impact life a thousand years from now?”

        So there you have it, in few sentences (following the same train of thought) he’s wandering about the future of New Mexico, concerned about the future history and how can a person impact future life.
        When he wrote that he was dancing with NM into the new millennium.

        And this above all: to thine own… no, not this, what was the other thing?… ah, yes! remember this:
        It’s hidden somewhere in the mountains North of Santa Fe, not South of Kalispell…

        and after all these existential questions he dives right into the importance of knowing how long a piece of iron is needed for a horseshoe… there must be some hint here.

    • Our eyes and ears are wide open RC. Why do “All clues point to the end of the chase?”

      I was researching a conflicting date of FF’s rescue by A/1C Robert J. ‘Sully’ Sullivan in 1968. Military records have Sully mia/dead in 1967. Rather than torture myself with gov’t inaccuracies, I’ll hold off and watch for you in the news returning Forrest’s bracelet. Good for you RC! 🙂

      Robt. J. Sullivan: http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/s/s448.htm

      • No, Dal I never said that. What I am saying is that he thought about hiding the treasure chest @ 1989. I think he has said something like, ” Do not look for the treasure where a 79, or a 80 year old man could not take it”. That does not mean he took it there when he was 79, or 80 years old. But that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that he knew where to hid the treasure years before he actually wrote the poem, so he had to “play” with words to fit the place. I never said Mr. Fenn was lying. I think the treasure is really out there somewhere, but it is my belief Mr. Fenn secreted it in New Mexico. He never said it was buried, but he never said it was not either. How ’bout buried under water? Is that still buried. To me it is. If you look at the definition of buried I do not think you will find that bury means underwater too. I did not find that meaning. I may be wrong but I do not think so. Buried, to me, is buried underwater too. It is my opinion that when Mr. Fenn was writing his poem, he was thinking locally(New Mexico). You may contend that he never said that the treasure was in New Mexico, but he never said it was not. Another point I have is Mr. Fenn said to just believe what is on the book, and the poem. Does he not have the map of New Mexico in the book? There is a little bit of Colorado too, by the way. All clues to me point at New Mexico, and whoever finds it will be in New Mexico. It is my opinion. RC

        • I am with you RC. He had to think about hiding the chest soon after he got cancer. Most people that know they are playing poker with life tend to look only at the short term. All in….

          Anyway, it was in play either late 1988 or 1989. It took him 15 years to make it happen. I mean to hid the chest and plan for the future. That’s how I feel I have solved the Poem. An architect like the word “Chase” is where it all began. You won’t believe what I have found. Tomorrow will be fife.

        • RC-
          Well…it’s good to have confidence in your theories… But it’s not all that good to be blind to the obvious…in my opinion…

      • Dal,

        I am not sure if I understand the comments. Where do you have a reference that Forrest hid the chest when he was 79 or 80?
        The point I got was it was time for him to act. Something happens when he turns 80, what you think that may be. I think I know.

        Anyway, could you please point me to that reference.


        • Geez Gey –

          Your an oldtimer here – you should know this

          Forrest responds-

          I agree that you are in an ideal location from which to search for the treasure. I have received 4,526 emails, many of them similar to yours. It is not feasible for me to give feedback and be fair to everyone. There is lots of feedback on my web site if you want to follow what other people are doing. I am glad you are in the chase with your friends. I will give you an important clue, no need to look for the treasure in a place where a 79 or 80 year old man couldn’t go with a 44 pound treasure chest full of gold and precious gems. Good luck. f

          • I do recall that statement but he only uses it as a condition. So let’s look at this scenario, the chest isn’t hidden until he tells the first person that he hid it. Make sense? I narrowed it down that hid it before 2001.

          • The day of his 80th birthday was very important. That’s when the chest was officially out of his hands. It has to do with his grandmother I think. Grandma’s are so very important.

          • I have interviewed 3 people who have actually seen the chest and one who has buried there hands in the gold letting it slip between there fingers. Not one of them can’t recall because it was so so very long ago. Yet, they were surprised that I was the first person to ask them about Forrest Fenns treasure. I am doing my research.

          • That is awesome Gey –

            I can’t find where anyone – like Preston – said the date they saw it in his vault last – so ——


            Who were the other two that saw it?

          • What would Forrest do?

            His poem is just the tip of the iceberg IMO. He says he thought of everything but even he must be surprised once in a while because he is human and so are the searcher in this chase.

          • Inthechaseto, again, where does f say that he hid the chest when he was 79/80? All I hear him saying is that a 79/80 year old could go to the place where the cheat is.

          • Yes, he did say 79-80 in a e-mail to Dal.

            I think this is very important – at least it is to me – as the poem would not work if he were a certain age.

          • to: inthechaseto 🙂
            Are you talking about this? In a court of law, this would not mean Fenn hid it when he was 79-80.

            I will give you an important clue, no need to look for the treasure in a place where a 79 or 80 year old man couldn’t go with a 44 pound treasure chest full of gold and precious gems. Good luck. f

          • Gold-
            What kind of crap are you making up? Forrest never said it was a cover story…that’s an out and out lie.
            What Forrest has said a number of times in interviews and in public is:
            “I hid the chest when I was 79 or 80. I won’t be any more specific than that.”
            The fact that we know that it was hidden in 2009 or 2010 has nothing to do with what he said about “Don’t go anywhere a 79 or 80 year old would not go.”
            We know he hid it when he was 79 or 80 because he told us that’s when he hid it…point blank..

        • I beg to differ Dal. The answer is in this video 33:48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXupxL4ovmY

          What I hear Fenn saying is 79/80 is something I say so others won’t check rental records. IMO thinking F is saying he hid it when he was 79-80 is choosing (a) or (b) giving a person an a/b option makes a person think it had to be 79/80 when in fact it didn’t have to be IMO

          • Gold Fever

            is that what you’re hearing or is that just what you want to believe

            trying to nuance some other kind of meaning out of this one statement is less than convincing when Forrest has repeated on other occasions that he hid the chest in 2009 or 2010.

            he also says point blank in TTOTC that he hid it when he was ‘almost-eighty’

            if you believe Forrest is repeating something that is simply untrue, then just say that

          • Exactly what I’m saying Chris…and Forrest tells us as much in the video. 79/80 in the book or wherever is a story/lie. A very clever one I might add. A/B choice is perfect. I understand the lie it makes sense to protect the chase from cheaters IMO.

          • Well Gold, if that is a story/lie what else is?

            So is the chest in Arizona, or the four corners area? How about Utah, I always wanted it to be in Utah; he could have hid it in Kanab along with Montezuma’s treasure. Maybe he discovered Montezuma’s treasure and put his chest with it……that would make sense.

            If you say he is lying about one thing then you have absolutely zero to go on because everything could be a lie……

      • Dal, I may appear to be well lit, but I do not recall a time where f said he was 79/80 years old when he hid the chest. Mind referencing said occurence? This detail doesn’t really matter to me, I just like to have details match what is said.

      • At 14:33 in Toby Younis’s Moby Dickens video, Forrest states, “And at the same time I was thinking about my treasure chest. What a… How do I bring all of these things together…. So it was 15 years from the time that I got cancer until the time that I hid the treasure chest…. 15 years… “

        At 34:20, he says he hid the treasure when he was 79 or 80 years old….

        So something’s not quite copasetic with these contradictory statements!

        15 years after he got cancer would be 2003…… not 2009-2010.

        • Jason,
          I have pondered the 2003 to 2009 time line for some time as well. Why would a man make a discussion to place such a wealth of riches for those to seek, make such an effort to the poem and a challenge, find just the right chest, write a bio, create ways to protect it and pick out a long list of valuable items for the trove, Then wait almost seven years to enact the hiding of it?

          All while keeping the hide secret, even from is most trusted friends and family.

          Interesting as it maybe… if knowing, will it help to locate the chest? I don’t believe so. Not unless someone is trying to tract Fenns movements to find the trove and not solve the challenge of the poem.

          This maybe why he took time to hide the chest. What ever the reason behind the time line, one thing is for sure, Fenn is a man of patience and does things on his own time line for reasons.

          1988 through 2009 [ some 20+ years ] from start to finish tells me the man was / is very serious when undertaking his project and keeping the secret his alone.

          This may shed a little light for those who believe fenn is feeding us hints and clues to find the chest… even after the statement of the “useless’ clue incident, a lot of searchers still think fenn is telling them information to locate the chest. For myself. I’ll just use the poem and hopefully the common sense i was born with.

  71. Hey Chasers,

    Would appreciate your thoughts on the following.

    1. How much did Mr. Fenn rely on Google to write the poem?
    2. How much did Mr. Fenn rely on Google earth to write TTOTC?
    3. Do Mr. Fenn’s “hints” relate to GE imagery on occaision?

    Google earth was first released in 2004/2005 to the general public. I know I have relied on GE in my solve attempts…probably too much. I can see Mr. Fenn placing hints in the book related to GE imagery, but what about the poem? Didn’t he state 15yrs to write the poem and it only changed slightly.

    Might need to take a different perspective.

    • Think about it Google earth gives a pilots perspective without being a pilot imo google earth is very very important

      • Fenn’s statement on a Good map / GE, doesn’t relate to me so much as when the chest was hidden. The use of different mappings that GE provides may suggest that one type of map is better reference than another.

      • Windsurfer:
        I agree with Old Choctaw – a pilot’s perspective is too important to ignore. Not sure if Forrest relied on GE in constructing the poem, but there is one clew.several hints in the book that rely on GE or a direct flight over the area to tc, IMO. I’m considering a new solution which relies more on totc hints, illustrations than GE. Will need someone else to search new location.

    • My thinking is that he didn’t rely on it. But that is just me. He is a pilot, and I think just his flying over an area and using a paper map would have given him all the information he needed. But that is just me.

      • Thanks Mark and OC,

        My dilemma is that I found the blaze I posted dead center in the middle of an X and also located directly below an “f” formed by trees. The X is formed by the intersection of two creeks (the second Y in Wise) and the lower right leg formed by a line of large rocks. In addition, I see a profile of a man that looks remarkably like Mr. Fenn(IMO) except for the big Omega nose formed by the creek. A small island in the creek is also the man’s eye. In the center of the eye (the answers I) is another image of a fetus and a man who appears to be lying in the state of death beside the fetus (next to the treasure?). The eye of the fetus image is the only visible sign of wood on the island.

        It is amazing to see how much the terrain has changed from the GE images when visiting these locations. I think the “f” and the X could be spotted from a plane, but I am not so certain about the pictures of the men and the fetus (new and old). I have also thought that the TC might be located at the “temple” of the image of the man. This “temple” is also shaped like a large musical note. This would have the TC hidden in “temple” as in Temple.

        All of this is driving me crazy. It is one thing for me to sit here and scan around GE for all these hidden pictures which is easily done, but for a pilot to see all of this I think would be pretty tough. It would also be pretty dicey flying in this location. It all seems just too coincidental to me, but so much so that it is probably wrong.

        At some point this winter I will write it up and send off to dal to provide you all a better feel for it. I do not think my solvve attempt would be possible unless Mr. Fenn relied on GE, but you will not believe how many of his posts I can find connections to. Well, others can probably say the same.

      • Mark J. let’s not forget that Forrest knew the place well – on the ground. He describes it as a very special place. We’re arm chair detectives, but he was a boots on the ground guy.

        • true, but we must be careful not to bound by our rules what a special place is. Each of us has our own reason for a place to be special. It is understanding what makes the place special to Forrest that we need to discern.

          • Mark J* I believe you have been to the end of the chase. Why did you believe you would find it there? I’ll bet I know the answer. You saw all the clues, and they all pointed to NM, but you did not find anything there, right? That place to me is the end of the chase, but where does it begin? Why does one have to go to Manby Hot Springs with confidence? I think because Mr. Fenn wanted us to look at that special place which to me is precious. Does the southernmost spring look like it has a cross in it? Yeah, that brown solid pipe sticking out, which I thought was home of Brown. I think it does. Why do most people end up there at the springs? It is my opinion that the springs are the end of the chase, but if you look closely at the frog, and the gold nuggets on top of the New Mexico map what do you see? What do the nuggets represent? Rocks? Or is it something else? RC

          • You are exactly correct Mark. By Forrest rules, I should be sitting on top of a grave stone among the sage brush, honoring remembered ones while gazing at the stars glistening above the lonely mountain peaks.I hope he’s around for many years to come. If ff isn’t around to return the bracelet to, I won’t continue chasing the gold. People have always mattered to me more than money.

    • Windsurfer –

      Those are all very good questions –

      1. I do think he used Google to write the poem but most likely to
      look up word definitions.

      2. I think he used Google Earth or Google Maps, to determine a
      particular spot,

      3. I haven’t seen his hints relate to Google Earth – I really have
      not paid much attention to imagery. Could you enlighten us?
      I have seen his hints relate to coordinates.

      You say maybe you used it too much – Google Earth is a map – a good map is a plus don’t you think? If your thinking he placed images there – perhaps he did – but I don’t think they will lead to the exact spot.

      • itc,

        regarding imagery. here are images from the book that I have seen on GE in some of my previous searches.

        a fox looks like a hound

        a juniper fire

        a man standing on a bridge holding a smoking pistol with a dead dog bleeding out all over the boards.

        a hammer striking the anvil

        There are a number of others and because all these searches failed, I cringe when I find a possible connection in the book.

        I dread saying it, but when I connected the poem to the island in the creek with the eye of the island fetus which is an exact spot and directly “down”stream from the blaze, a terrible thought of the treasure at the end of his rainbow and Butterflies entered my mind because of a friend in a similar experience. The Phantom reference to 42 ounces does not help matters either. Some of you may know what I refer to and I pray that it is not the case for Mr. Fenn, but it would make the place very special for such an individual. Almost making the whole Chase a tribute of sorts, but I cannot bear to think of it so I am hoping that I am way off with this. It is just amazing what you can concoct with GE and play crazy games in your head with looking for hints real or unreal. The good news is that I did not find the TC on this island so I am hopeful that I am way wrong with this scenario and my apologies to Mr. Fenn for inferring it to begin with.

        • RC –

          It is my opinion that the phantom has to do with the opera. I can see were you might think it would be on an island – but I don’t think he placed it in harms way – in other words a flood zone. Your not the first to have a wild scenario and you probably won’t be the last.

          • Inthechaseto* I do not know what you mean by “wild” scenario but I base all my clues, and opinions on what the book says, the poem, and what Mr. Fenn says literally, and nothing else. RC

      • Inthechaseto* It is my opinion, and only my opinion, that you need Google Earth because you have to have to coordinates before you go get the gold, and that is why you need Google Earth, and a very, detailed map of the area. RC

    • Right Gold Fever, enough! Look at the family photos of Mr and Mrs Fenn with their beautiful daughters and grand kids for Heaven sake. Forget about gold for a minute and remember he is a caring human being with feelings. I hope the chase has changed people for good and winnowed away greed.

  72. But then again, I am still as broke as I will be tomorrow. It’s like if I can’t have yesterday then why should I keep tomorrow. Geydelkon. Good night chasers.

    • We’re all broke – your not alone. This country needs for intelligent people to start voting – and to make sure it’s not rigged.

      Yesterday is gone – tomorrow is yet to be – right now your doin fine. Thanks for all the help tonight – sleep well.

  73. I think one of the biggest clues is the frog, and the gold nuggets on the old New Mexican map Mr. Fenn put on the book. I do not think the frog represents a frog. In my opinion, whoever makes the connection between the poem, and the map, and the frog, and gold nuggets is the person who will find the treasure chest. RC

    • Yes, I think the frog is a hint – and the frogs eye is a hint and also the nuggets. I think the hints lead you to clues – which are actual directions to the chest.

    • RC, Three years ago I posted that the page has been a tell for me since I began the Chase… I reason that if ff’s original intention was to hide the TC “in the Rockies”, the map would be “of the Rockies”. The frogs feet identify it as the NM state amphibian. I am less sure about its delta head. The coin under the cross of gold also implies the NM flag. But I also see a moccasin trail across some soft turf in Yellowstone. I have some very strong indicators about the TC site which I have never mentioned, but they conflict, and thats a cofidence buster. Empirical testing is too costly for me, so until I get more insight … I wait.

  74. Could we please take a break tonight from gold fever to simply say, “Enjoy your evening Forrest, we don’t care about the treasure, but we care about you. How are you this evening?”

    • I second that, Nor. I hope Forrest finds time to read some of these comments and he comes away with the impression that we care about him and hope he’s feeling healthy and happy and we’re not all a bunch of greedy fools. Of course, there’s quite a lot of leeway with the “not all” statement. 🙂

      I suppose I can only speak for myself and I’d like to say that I’m not a greedy fool…or a brown-noser. (House of brown-nosers?) 🙂

      • Thanks JC1117, grateful for your company. I pray both Forrest and his bride Peggy are healthy and happy this fine evening. Only love for others truly matters. I believe that is the “it” we are to discover in TTOTC. Thanks Mr. Fenn!
        Good night all. 🙂

    • Sorry got a little carried away tonight with all the posts. I’m excited about a new solve. Montana the treasure state. Seeker I’m with you on this.

  75. I just took our puppy out. The full moon is glistening on the heavy dew. It is very nice. We sat for a moment on the back porch. Then I had to return to bed so I can get up in the morning and return to reality.

  76. Oh what a night. Reminds of a song by the Four Seasons. Anyway, to solve a mystery, there are many things to consider. Time, it takes you back to the beginning. It is the most important clue in any solve. Even the bugs will share their secret. I chose 2001 for a reason but not it’s last season as before. Have a great day chasers.

  77. I have made this comment several months ago on Chase chat and then I proposed it here – Dal said FF mispoke. That answer never sat well with me since it was only an opinion and to be honest the only way to settle it is to ask Mr. Fenn which of those statements is correct. I asked but did not receive an answer, so I consider both possibilites until this is clarrified.
    The Wolf

    • Forrest states in the book he hid it when he was almost eighty and he has said on other occasions he hid it in either 2009 or 2010.

      since he made this ONE other aberrant statement, that would have to mean that (a) he made a mistake and the other statements were true … or (b) he has been intentionally feeding us the information he wants to and this one occasion was a freudian slip

      in either case, Forrest is going to continue to give us/you the information that he wants to give us.

      to me, the issue is clarified because i accept the most likely and plausible reason. and im not dissing another opinion on the matter, just saying thats my take on it.

      he stated in a video that he spent 15 years working on the poem, from 1988 to 2003. i think he just got those things mixed up on the one occasion.

  78. 12th trip to West Yellowstone this Sun-Tues. Taking a different perspective with me this time after f said there are only a couple of words in the poem that aren’t relevant to finding the treasure….anyone else searching out there the same time?

  79. “What serious adventurers should remember is to not believe anything that is not in my poem or otherwise in my book.”

    You know a thought I had just recently about the ‘hints’ that many of us think F gives out in scrapbooks and other things outside the book, im not sure if they really can ever help us.

    I don’t mean things like, its below 10,200 feet, that is solid info that has to be considered a clue and helpful imo. What I mean is all the stories that arent really saying anything on the surface related to the poem puzzle, but many of us read into them and think he may be hinting at this or that … and I am in that crowd , believe me.

    The thing is, if I think F is hinting at something, it is because I already concluded that something is a hint from reading the book or poem and what its meaning is, I then think that F is hinting at that.

    I don’t have any way to corroborate that what F is saying is indeed a hint, or that I know what the meaning of the hint is, only that my own pre-formed conclusion has caused me to believe this. So really the ‘hint’, if it is that, isn’t any kind of confirmation at all, it is only telling me what I already think, that Ive concluded hint “X” leads me to “Y”, from my own research and reading of the book with poem.

    If I am right about a clue, and F is subtly referring to this clue, it is nice to recognize that, but that means I already figured out the clue. And if I am wrong, then my recognition of a subtle reference from F is only falsely confirming my wrong conclusion.

    In either case, I have to step back and see logically that I don’t have any way to confirm which one it is. well, there is only one way really, and that is the point im getting at. You have to rely on your own opinion and really try to weigh the evidence and clue patterns in the book/poem.

  80. Chris,
    Your statement is what most people already believe so nothing new. The only thing I am adding is that there are now two possibilities and I will not assume either are correct until the big man himself clarifies which one was correct. You know what they mean about ASS-U-ME?

    The only thing I will add is that he had for good reason not to reveal when he hid the treasure. That to me does add more credence to 2003. What better way to ensure that no one follows your trail than that? The only other explaination is a hybrid, he hid some, part or replica in 2003 to test the spot, while he finalized the decision and poem but that is pure speculation.

    • if you suspect Forrest is giving you wrong info about when he hid it, if he answers your question and continues to give you wrong info, how does that clarify anything for you

      • Chris, I do not understand your last comment. Forrest didn’t answer my question, thus two possibilities exist – period!

          • Chris in this instance he said why he was giving false info geez if you can’t trust a man you can’t trust him period.

          • Chris, I disagree. We already have two possible answers.

            The question I asked him is: did you hide it 15 years after you had cancer (2003) or in the 2009-2010 time frame. If he answers it then there is only one possible solution.

          • Gold Fever

            he didnt say that he gave false info.

            maybe that is your interpretation, but he didnt say that, nor did he say that it was a cover story

            what he said was, he doesnt want to give the exact date when he hid it, in 2009 or 2010, that way no one could look up rental records on that date

            understand there is a difference between what he said, and what is your interpretation

            he never said the words “false info” or “cover story”

      • It matters greatly to me if Forrest is giving out wrong answers – I do not believe he is – and I think he is doing everything he can to make sure he doesn’t.

        .This is the direct quote from Forrest again –

        “I will give you an important clue, no need to look for the treasure in a place where a 79 or 80 year old man couldn’t go with a 44 pound treasure chest full
        of gold and precious gems. Good luck. f”

        First, he said this is an important clue. Not a hint – a CLUE.

        If searchers don’t think this is important – I do.

        He tells us when he did this with in two years. No it’s not precise – but close enough for me.

        There is a time line involved here:

        —————————1988 – FF diagnosed with cancer

        5 years later——— 1993 – Event – precise spot pin-pointed – with coordinates.

        1 year later————1994 – or 1995 started writing the poem

        15 years later——– 2009 or 2010 hid TC

        IMO. It would have been impossible for anyone to trace
        him from this spot as there are locked gates certain times of the year.

        He had a key and after he locked the gate behind him – he went in there alone – and I might add with no cell phone service.

        The poem would not fit any later – because the home of Brown – changed – so it was a push for him to hid the TC and finish the book.

        That is my opinion and I’m stickin to it.

        • All this talk about a time line for the hiding of the chest to be so imortant, made me think of something that fenn stated that should be important

          Here is Fenn’s complete comment:
          “Since Richard mentioned the olden days lets harken to 1620 when universal land measures first became law in England and America. As you rode your horse into town you had to pass 80 telephone poles in order to reach a mile because they were 1 chain apart, or 66 feet. And each chain had 100 links, if you wanted to break it down further. Road rights-of-way also were 1 chain wide. And 80 square chains made a square mile, or 640 acres – and that was 1 section of land.
          But if you’d rather count fence posts you had to pass 320 in order to reach a mile because they were a rod apart, or 16.5 feet. And since everyone knew that an acre was 10 square chains (43,560 square feet) it was easy to tell how many acres were in your neighbor’s farm.
          Some aspects of those measures are still in use today in the horse racing business because a furlong is 10 chains in length, or 660 feet. You should feel smarter now because that’s so easy.

          If you want to apply those important figures into the thrill of the chase I will give you an additional clue. The Treasure chest full of gold and precious jewels is more than 66,000 links north of Santa Fe.”

          So why are we to apply those important figures into the chase? Anyone else doing the math in the poem?

          • I think what I wrote above, about what FF said – is important because –
            he SAID it is an IMPORTANT CLUE.

            I believe him.

            Just that simple.

          • What I want to start with is: “How can one count telephone poles in 1620?”

            And the reason I’m saying this, is because I don’t think that people in that time knew how to count to 67 😉

          • I see your comment on, don’t go where an 79-80 year old man couldn’t go…

            The statement just states exactly that. No mention or indication of a time line, Just no need to search area’s an elderly man carrying 42 extra lbs can’t go.

            I would go swimming with an extra 42lbs. of dead weight. Wouldn’t climb a sheer wall with it. And I would not try and climb a locked fence with or without an extra 42lbs. of dead weight, in some states you would be looking at the wrong end of a shotgun.

            It seems to me, some are Forcing the time line into that statement.. My Opinion.

        • ITCT you said that 94 or 95 he started writing the poem

          i recall a video where, i dont recall the exact words, but you can conclude from it that he was saying he worked on the poem for 15 years, 88 to 2003

          i can give you the reference if you want. i have it in my notes somewhere im pretty sure

    • 2003?, 2009-2010?, Which timeframe? (or all??)

      Other than something to speculate on, what difference does it make?
      He has said, rightfully so, that knowing when the chest was hidden could give searchers a method to a possible short-cut. He is adamant that everyone use only the Poem and possible hints in the book.

      Without fenn specifically saying, there is no way to determine when it was hidden. So why waste resources trying to determine?

      Even if you knew when Peggy discovered that it was gone, it would be no help. He has said she doesn’t know, within eighteen months, of when it was hidden. Knowing that would still not tell you where he went in that time-frame nor what season (spring, summer, etc.).

      If one’s solution is dependent upon knowing when the chest was hidden to validate it, it probably ain’t the correct one!! 🙂 ……It is where it is regardless of when it was hidden and only the Poem will take you there.

      Good Luck Everybody!!!

      • Loco, I generally agree with your statement. The only time I feel it makes a difference is if you have a photo of the chest in the hidden location prior to 2009, then it probably matters.

        Maybe one other possible concept is any date prior to 2008 brings delivery of treasure trove via aircraft/rental car because he had his licence back then and he went alone. That gives locations near airports and areas in Montana more probability. His logbook and airport records would then become a valuable investigative tool.

        The Wolf

      • It makes a difference… if there are two omegas.

        There I said it!
        (that’s what I call thinking outside the… tresure chest)

  81. It does not matter when he hid it. What matters is WHY is it COLD? We know why its worth it. Please tell me if you like, why is it cold?

    • I wander if anybody asked him “Did you hide it in Winter?”

      This being just an Yes or No question he could have chose to answer it or not.
      My feeling is that if would have went in Spring-Summer-Fall he would have answered NO (anyway just about everybody stops searching when Winter comes, so it’s not that he’s giving away the farm), but if he did it in Winter he would have not answered,
      … and to get to the point that I’m trying to make for a few minutes now (that you’re also never gonna get back 😛 ) What if you have to cross a body of water?

      This follows the logical (in my mind) thread of: no paddle up your creek – therefore no canoe – therefore either swim or walk on ice. Hence the cold (either way)

    • … and of course, following the same logic: heavy loads and water high means you have to carry your gear raised above your head, with water waist high… or something to that nature, so better to do it in Winter.

          • interesting you bring up child Liviu,

            Child is a word that just doesn’t mean young or maturity .

            Child also means coon.

            coon : A raccoon. Also a friendly name early mountain men called each other

            Cold can refer to illness, as well as the term cold feet or Someone who seeks shelter when the going gets tough.

            Just as brave is not so much having no fear, but taking on a challenge or a dare.

            multiple meanings to every word

          • lee lou,
            “Cold is cold not warm not hot. Not sure if there is any other meaning from cold.”

            here are some other meanings… maybe it will help.

            Cold: without advance notice, Illness, dead, lacking in freshness, the touch of metal, hard …and one of my favorites…

            cold – When the moon is far to the north, it is popularly called a cold moon.
            See also related terms for north.
            Farlex Trivia Dictionary. © 2012 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.

            Just some cold meanings. I wonder if waters means water?

      • Yes, I’ve heard that before, but I doubt it’s the bronze.
        The rocks around it (it’s hidden in the Rockies right 🙂 ) would be at about the same temperature.

      • yes chest would be cold to touch so an adjective to describe like bronze or statue, art etc…Your effort will be worth the chest. I’m nursing a great solve in Montana trying to follow young Donnie and Forrest.

        • Well the treasure is affiliated with a 10x10x6″ Romanesque BRONZE box (I guess a structure)! but that box may not be affiliated with another structure, because FF said so!

    • One more thing, remember that he said “what prevents me from taking my bike there and when I’m done, just throw it in water high… I thought of everything”
      These are not his exact words but very very close, as clsoe I can remember.
      He did say he was going to throw his bike in water high, so that means “water high” is really water and it’s also deep enough to dispose of his bike for a long long time… a dam looks like a pretty good spot for doing that.

      • liviu,

        I would sure hate to take little Johnny with his Spiderman back pack and little Sally with her pink Camo back pack, in your waist high water on a search. maybe I should bring their little arm floats too. I think your logic is just too simple…Just a thought.

      • Liviu… You quoted “One more thing, remember that he said “what prevents me from taking my bike there and when I’m done, just throw it in water high… I thought of everything”

        Where was that quote from? Anyone?

        I’ve listened to a lot and read a lot, of and about ff… And I’ve never seen this quote.

      • My first thought was where did he get the bike.

        Could never get past this image of 80 year old forrest peddling 100 mph down the path with the chest bungeed to the back. Funny thing…probably not far fetched if youre familiar with his stamina.

      • Hi diggin gyps: Stick to Montana. glad to hear you don’t have any NM red clay under your nails. Me neither. I bleed Montana’s Gally emerald green, and my eyes sparkle yogo blue – especially when I’m counting double eagles. Ha! Are you still searching this fall? I may have somewhere for you to dig.

        • I was chipping away at writing a book on my adventures and I have this really cool theory (well I think it is cool) that I wrote today that is based on Diggin Gypsey and the connection to the old west and Forrest’s motivation for hiding the chest and yes it actually leads to Montana but not Yellowstone.
          The Wolf

        • Forget the chest, ‘Gally emerald green and sparkling yogo blue eyes’? and some gold coins to boot… I just lost all interest in the chest and starting a new “chase”

          • Very funny Seeker. Trust me, you need to chase something younger and not married! I was born when dirt was young, and glide next to mr. swan on our golden pond.

        • Lou Lee – glad there’s a few die hards on the chase who understand why Montana is the Last Best Place and treasure state. Are you finished searching for the year?

  82. To me the concern about exactly when the TC was hidden is completely over blown. Unless you have access to data bases that could provide information to F’s whereabouts on a certain date (anybody here have that?) it’s meaningless and doesn’t move you closer to the chest.

  83. This is not part of the nine clues, but maybe I should just throw it in here:

    Them little stamps, as one searcher put it: out of 20, about 12 dates are related to major earthquakes, and on few more dates either major floodings or mudslides happened. I just happen to remember one (I don’t have the book with me):

    5 June 1888 – Rio de la Plata earthquake

    I wonder if I was to go through every day of the year, would I find a natural disaster in 80%-85% of them?

    • @ Liviu – interesting corresponding link between earthquakes and postal dates. Forrest’s parents were living in Montana at Fenn Haven during a major earthquake adjacent their fly fishing ranch. Forrest’s mother was quoted in a 1959 newspaper article discussing the quake which took the lives of 28 people on August 17, 1959 at 11:37pm. None of the postal dates match. Forrest would have been 29 yrs at the time serving our country. Not sure if he was in Montana on leave, or away.

      fwiw: some of the postal stamps are altered. With a high power magnifying glass you may notice other information – in my opinion.

        • Mindy – will you help me understand the connection between postal stamps and Duveen Brothers? I recall ff said the painting was of interest to him because of the Duveen sticker on back. I’ve read “Duveen” by Secrest, and find Forrest to be “the Duveen” of western art and antiquity collections.

          Is is a reference to the Duveen provenance being falsified?

          • The Duveen Brothers were two guys who were controversial in their day for dealing in fake artwork. They were also noted philatelist–study of stamps and postal history.

          • Mindy, it’s been a while since I read it, and didn’t mean to imply doubtful attributions/prov’s. with ff. Simply meant f was instramental in building western art collections, especially Fechin and Sharp. If not for the Duveens many of our private & museum collections wouldn’t exist.

          • Indeed Mindy. Fake artwork; altered labels; doctored postal stamps; Forrest’s ID card in the front flap of the book has the wrong photo pasted over a stamp; wrong numbers on front vs back of dr license. But, I don’t believe FF is a fraud, or lied when he says he placed the treasure chest for all to seek. He’s a great poker player but his life’s example speaks of honor. The tc is out there. There is however, a point of diminishing returns where adventure wanes and research/search are no longer in the cards. I wonder if when Mr. Fenn flies his final flight how many will continue to search. not me; the fun will have been used up.

          • I agree, Swan. I don’t think ff is a fraud, and I believe the tv is out there. I get the feeling, though, that ff has lingering feelings of guilt. I don’t know what happened–perhaps something that happened in Vietnam. His epitaph makes me feel this way. I could be wrong though.

          • Mindy, regarding your gut feeling that ff senses guilt perhaps over vn events: there is a distinct difference between ‘knowing God forgives, that’s what he does’ and knowing the peace of having been forgiven. I can’t imagine what soldiers who have been ordered to kill (by our nations leaders) deal with emotionally. Over the past few years I have had occasion to meet many families who wanted to adopt for so many different reasons. Birth mothers feel guilt for giving away their children; some moms had abortions; one family had lost their 2 yr. old who drown in their back yard while being watched by the older siblings. Finding/feeling forgiveness with soul satisfying certainty is nothing short of a miracle, especially if the person you seek forgiveness from is gone. Like matters of faith, forgiving oneself takes both guts and grace. If you are interested, here is a link to one path of forgiveness. It’s a spiritual link, so if its not for you just delete the info. Perhaps helpful to someone.

          • An amazing connection Mindy! and solid food offered. The blog may not be the appropriate place, but with all the VN Vets who may read it, perhaps a message of forgiveness will help someone. (or I may get kicked off 🙂 Enjoy your evening, I’m headed out the door soon.

        • @ Liviu – assuming that WM refers to Forrest’s father? Do you know if Dal or anyone has ever looked around the memorial at the Quake site? Seems an eerie place. I’ve visited it several times and always walk away knowing it could have been my parents buried in that spot as they camped frequently along the Madison in their trailer. do you have any other ideas to tie Forrest to that spot? I’ve tied the meridian in, but to a places further north. The quake area isn’t far from Forrest & Donnie’s trip through Red Canyon and to points north.

          • No ideas, I started thinking about them stamps only about a week ago, and last night searching for dates, the earthquake connection sort of stood out.

            Again, maybe it’s nothing and probably a major earthquake happened on almost every day of the year, in the last 500 years.

  84. If some people would spend as much time trying to figure out the “poem” as they do trying to discredit Forrest, they would be way ahead of most of the runners in this marathon…..

    If they think Forrest is fraud, then why the heck are they still in the race…. I say to them….. ” get the heck out of the race, or run over at the white line”

    I don’t want to run over them while I make a sprint to the finish line……..

    • One can also look at it like….If some people would spend as much time advancing their education or placement at their work place than they do trying to figure out some poem…..they might have been a million dollars.

  85. Sorry to all the honest searchers out there…. I posted that here because most bloggers are on commenting on this topic…..

    Just don’t understand why I can surf through all the blog topics and there is always naysayers………

    you would think they would find something better to do…..

    Thx…..all….. needed to ” vent “

      • sure he does…lol there is going to be ” non-tribal” naysayers no matter what..

        just gotta keep dancing around the fire and beating the drum…….let the naysayers stand out in the cold….

        • So there are two tribes…? Chasers and Naysayers?
          As long as we can all have the propensity to not fight. 🙂

          • thats right…..:) k now back to the chase……lol Poker…..hummmm we play whether we like it or not…

          • Been thinking about that, if the propensity to fight wasn’t there… maybe we would still be flaking away at a fluted point instead of typing at this stupid keybord that cannot even read my mind and do the job by itself.

  86. jdiggins – yes, we are a tribe. I just watched ff interview at Moby Dickins Bookshop again. Behind the soft spoken Texas gentleman is a clever fox highly skilled at holding an advantage over tribal members. Behind every sentence his mind paddles klicks of unspoken thoughts.

    @ Forrest: if you’re tuned in, ‘I’m finally old enough to ask this question’ (ref to your dad). How do you plan to take the very special items you placed in your chest “with you” if someone plays finders keepers, or it’s not found during your life time on terra firma? The real perplexing question is why you would include 2 such personally meaningful items (Tairona-Sinu necklace, Wetherill bracelet) in the chest; likely kenning another would find and keep them? Would truly enjoy understanding your philosophy. You are always most interesting!

  87. Yawn* scratch* Did I miss something? Still going on about 80 years old. I think f is 84 now and talking about maybe returning to that special place. This should tell you naysayers that it cant be to difficult of an area BUT I wouldn’t go thinking it was a walk in the park either.

  88. Here is another thought.. I’ve been holding it for a while, but now I feel like giving, after all, on Sept 16 (it ring a bell isn’t it) I’m turning 50… woo-hoo, made it this far.

    Do you think that his treasures (bold) and the treasure chest are one and the same thing?
    I really REALLY doubt that.
    HE THOUGHT HE WAS DYING when he wrote that.

    • Hi Liviu – in answer to your question, no. I think his treasures bold are his family, and the treasure chest is different. I also believe the word AND in that line is overlooked but critical. He’s gone alone there, AND he’s gone with his ‘treasures’ aka family there. The next line may be read exclusive of the first two statements. I search Montana; how about you Liviu?

      • I’ve only been once in Cimarron Canyon, and that’s because my brother asked me to go with him.
        I was a little skeptical about the whole thing, I still am (and nobody in their right mind can state that absolutely 100% there is a million dollars treasure out there).
        It probably is… but beside Forrest, nobody knows.

        I’ve posted earlier why I think it is in New Mexico.
        If I would be searching still, I wouldn’t search anywhere else; but since I’m not, I figured to start spilling some beans, I want it found before my eyes fail me.

        I’m really curious, like everybody, to find out where the hell is home of Brown 😛

        • Ha! Liviu – yes, I would also like to know w.t.h_ll HOB is. At one time I had the perfect HOB and solve, but it fell through the canyon to nevermore and is being taunted by the Phantom’s shadow.* Now, I have a new place to scout but no complete solve, and at the mercy of others to look. Mainly would enjoy seeing Wetherill bracelet returned to Mr. Fenn & seeing solve!

  89. OK. Getting serious about the poem for a bit, let me share an observation with everyone (if you haven’t figured it out yet).

    Fenn is a writer, among other things. His natural inclination would be to use his skills in construction of the poem as he does in his books. Let me share my thoughts on this and you decide if it makes sense.

    In starting out in writing a book, generally you have a brief introduction to what is to follow. In this case, he uses the first person to speak to us. First stanza: As I have gone alone in there…

    Notice that he speaks of himself, tells us the ‘who’, ‘what’ and ‘where’. Of course, we must determine the ‘where’. Again, first person introduction.

    Notice that in order to begin the search, we have to follow the rules, not jumping over the introduction to the second stanza. This was done intentionally. The focus is who? Fenn of course.

    The second stanza is the first chapter AFTER the introduction, not where you begin. It is the starting point in his directions to the chest. We can’t overlook the introduction, we must keep it in mind as we progress.

    At this point, I hope you recognize that just because the second stanza starts with ‘Begin it where…’, doesn’t mean you ignore the introduction as the true ‘beginning’.

    • Germanguy – I’ve always believed the first stanza gives the who and starts the where. You articulate well to grant others understanding. I appreciate that! Out of time for me.

    • Is the “where” in the first stanza, and the location of the treasure chest, the same place?

      Can we, for the sake of arguing 🙂 , say that they are not.
      I think we can, and further yet, I think we have to entertain this thought.

      • “And with my treasures bold, I can keep my secret where'”. Pretty much says that the ‘treasure’ and ‘where’ are the same spot. It seems you are separating out ‘where’ from the ‘treasure’. They are both part of the same statement, because they are only separated by a comma. Now if they where separate statements, you may possibly see it differently.

        However, you are over looking an important aspect of the stanza. Let’s see if you can figure that out.

    • Hey GG,

      Appreciate your insights. Please now tell me why “take the chest and go in peace” is still two stanza’s from the end of the poem.

      Is this in fact the end? Can you in fact find the TC at this point? Do you need the final two stanzas to locate the TC? Are the final two stanza’s merely hints or are they in fact directional clues?

      I do not believe anyone has sorted this out yet, and until we do…there will be no treasure.

      I agree with you on the beginning…I am most interested in the end…kidding.

      • Windsurfer,

        “Just take the chest and go in peace”, is not the end, even though it sounds like it. It was intentionally meant to mislead (at least the way I see it). Didn’t Forrest say, that not every word was a clue? “Not every word was a clue” could mean that a whole sentence could be miss leading, not just one word. However, that leaves me with only one conclusion. The sentence was added to fit the rhyme.

        The rest of stanza 4 is perfectly valid (as well as important to the solve). Think about it for a second (just a second, no more…:)… Why end the search in only the fourth stanza? And please don’t even venture a guess that the poem is not in order from top to bottom. If you don’t agree with the previous sentence, so be it.

        The last 2 stanzas do in fact give the final directions. It fits with my original assessment of the poem being like a book, a beginning, a middle and an end.

        I hope this helps you.

        • Thanks GG. I suppose you could be correct in the sense that after finding the blaze…the poem could mean something like….Just take the chest already! As if, you are almost there, but not quite.

          • BW: Really interesting take on “just take” confirming how important and how interesting language is. Those phrases which I have to dig deep to find or never find are f’s gifting and must reel off his pen without a second thought.
            His notations while constructing the TOTC poem would interest me as much as the ancient pieces in the TC. So Many stories we would enjoy hearing from him.
            Here’s my contribution for today: some of the Why’s in the poem are also a Y and may hold John Charle’s olives if you drink martinis. Also believe the question why must I go is more of a statement of F going to his whys. All IMO which is more oft wrong than ryght.

    • gremanguy,

      you said…”Notice that he speaks of himself, tells us the ‘who’, ‘what’ and ‘where’. Of course, we must determine the ‘where’. Again, first person introduction.” – using the First Stanza as reference.

      Just like everyone on the blogs, forums, etc. when reading the poem say just that. FF in the first person. Why? The first person term is a very accurate way of putting it, but is it really FF?

      The simple definition of I is: Knowledge of self. But….Not all.

      So I ask this question, when reading the 1st stanza what indication places fact that ” I ” is referencing Fenn?

      The 1st stanza is in past tense, with the use of the word “Gone.”
      “I can keep my secret where” is still in past tense as it refers to the previous I in, “As I gone alone…” the entire sentence is in past tense.

      This may seem quite natural to say, But in stanza 5 the ” i ” is now present tense and the treasure is no longer, but is replaced by trove. Two totally different meanings of those words. two totally different objects.

      I would also ask who the “First Person” could be?

      Food for thought.

      • Seeker,

        “Two totally different objects.” This comment is truer than you know.

        If I say ‘bush’, you think of a plant. If I say ‘whacker’, you think of “One who whacks”. However, if I say “bushwhacker” you think of “a form of guerrilla warfare common during the American Revolutionary War”.

        There are other definitions for the words, but I’m just trying to show you how important Forrest’s use of the terms ‘I’ and ‘my’ are. As I mentioned in my original comment, you have to keep the first stanza in mind as you go further down in the poem. It will reveal a very important clue that is being overlooked.

        Are you picking up on what I’m presenting here? Keep in mind that Forrest breaks the rules for a number of word usages. He makes up his own words, because he doesn’t like dictionaries.

        In accordance with blog rules, this is purely my perspective on the poem.

        • Stop whacking about the bush, Germanguy. You keep taunting us to guess what you already know, like you’re running your own chase game. Just make your point or show us the bracelet.

          • Chill out Old Shadows…

            If you read my disclaimer at the bottom of my comment… “In accordance with blog rules, this is purely my perspective on the poem.” Maybe you’ll understand this better “This is my OPINION”. If it offends you, please don’t read it. Thank you.

            This site was intended to share insights on. If I choose to share thoughts with others, that may encourage constructive conversations, I will do so until Dal tells me otherwise.

            No one is suggesting that my words are to be taken as fact. If you find something useful (obviously you haven’t), run with it, otherwise just ignore my comments.

          • Easy germanguy.
            Old Shadows isn’t questioning your right to express your opinion, or the accuracy of your opinion.
            She is expressing her frustration with you being so cryptic. Often your statements are not clear. Even I don’t always know what you mean.
            Of course that is your prerogative . 🙂

          • Specialklr,

            I don’t mean to be cryptic, but rather to kindle people’s thinking creatively. Old Shadows’ comment was uncalled for. Everyone who comments on here knows that what they share is from their own thoughts on the poem. If you note my comment, it points to making a conclusion, nothing more. Deciding what that conclusion is and how valuable it is for each individual to decide on their own. What I don’t want to do is tell people what they should conclude from my comments.

        • we can go back and forth all day long on definitions and meaning of phrases. and I agree with your assessments and examples. So I’ll throw out my interpretation of stanza one, and yes it is the premise of the poem IMO.

          I travels into the new world. I is the first. I brings knowledge. I has self knowledge of where when why and how he came. I brings is tools, weapons and other necessity. I is not singular as I represents the first. My, in the stanza one represents not only what I brought with him but some of what was left behind when I is gone.

          Two can keep a secret if one is dead.

          In the non- dictionary terms of stanza two…
          Glacial time period.
          Time = distance= traveled
          HOB, I will not hint at as it tells me what the answers to line nine.

          all Just an interpretation of the way I read into the poem.

          So I would very much like to see your hint if your willing to share.

  90. There is a particular site that seems to tie in the street lamps and clicks and Manby and Fenn. I haven’t researched it all yet–it’s like 200 pages long and was written back in the 1800’s (I think?). I’ll find the link and post it.
    After all, it’s the stuff not worth knowing that turn out to be important, right?

  91. Aspen Marsh ..Someone’s been in My world. Rainbow colors,Double Omegas , Art. Cold and Water high…….???? LOL A special place..As I have gone Alone in there.( Knowledge)

    • Amy, it was amazing. Dal has the story and pics. I sort of gave away my spot but not exactly. 🙂

      • Mindy
        Glad u had a amazing adventure. Are u still going to search in the future at your same location. Can’t wait to see your story or ideas we all think so different . I wonder if we search the same area .

        Hurry Dal and post mindys solve 🙂

        • Amy, I never got to my specific spot. You’ll see why in my story. I definitely want to go back. We were close to your spot, but further south. 🙂

  92. Checking in, just got off work. I got 100 emails today from searchers. That is a record for my inbox. Lots of great thoughts from searchers. Hmmm, haven’t heard from Cognito in awhile. Anyone heard from him/her. Cognito gave me the best answers. Anyway, haven’t seen the Kansas connection in a few days as well. Again, hmmm is he heading up North of Santa Fe this week.

    • If you hear from Cognito, let us all know. Hope he is well and eager to search. His contributions were original and appreciated.

  93. I’ve always entertained the notion that the first stanza reveals the starting point of where to begin to find the directional clues in stanza two.

    Also, you need to figure out where to end driving your vehicle and get out to search. Maybe you need to be wise to find the blaze and this is where you get out of the car.

    Simply put: you need to know the general geographical area to start your car travel and where to stop your vehicle.

  94. New Mexico or bust?


    I can find a bunch of links like this one, dating early 2013 and older, and the articles would be stating that the treasure is hidden in NM.

    In this particular one is stated twice:
    1. New Mexico
    2. the fifth biggest state.

    I really don’t think that the journalist got it wrong twice. He just put down what he got form Forrest, implied or otherwise. For you sleuthing guys and girls (yes I’m looking at you Geydelkon 🙂 ) maybe it would be worth tracking down one of the journalists, and maybe they’d still have some extant interview notes, so it can be proved finally and without a doubt, that in the beginning it was New Mexico.

    At some point in time, Forrest changed it from “mountains North of SF” to “Rocky Mountains”.
    Any body searched when he first said the latter?

    • A journalist assigned to the Jerusalem bureau takes an apartment overlooking the Wailing Wall. Every day when she looks out, she sees an old Jewish man praying vigorously. So the journalist goes down and introduces herself to the old man. She asks: “You come every day to the wall. How long have you done that and what are you praying for?”The old man replies, “I have come here to pray every day for 25 years. In the morning I pray for world peace and then for the brotherhood of man. I go home have a cup of tea and I come back and pray for the eradication of illness and disease from the earth.”The journalist is amazed. “How does it make you feel to come here every day for 25 years and pray for these things?” she asks.The old man looks at her sadly. “Like I’m talking to a wall.”

      Goodnight chasers.

    • Liviu-
      Forrest did originally say “in the mountains north of Santa Fe”. He didn’t even say what mountains. Some stories speculated that it could be the Cascades or even the Alps. Forrest did not disagree. It was not until 2011 that he actually narrowed it down to the Rocky Mountains and at that time the area included the RMs all the way North to Alaska. Later he excluded Idaho and Utah and then when the new book came out his map excluded Canada and Alaska. So it has been a long process of narrowing down the search territory.

      I’ve written a couple times about this penom…but here are my considerations about those articles…

      In the beginning of my search I started in New Mexico because two stories I read at that time had said that Forrest buried the treasure in New Mexico…just as Mitch does in the story you linked too. When Forrest was asked about the New Mexico statement he said the same thing he says about it being “buried”. He said, “I never said it was in New Mexico. I never said it was not in New Mexico.”

      I figured the same thing you are figuring…He probably said New Mexico in the beginning but saw how big this thing was getting and changed his tune to decrease the likelihood of it being found by such a large crowd of searchers concentrating in one location.

      I searched NM for a year…no luck..
      Push came to shove and someone suggested Yellowstone…I was against it…for all the reasons you are..
      So I wrote the two reporters who published the stories that mentioned New Mexico…(not Mitch…two earlier writers).
      Did Forrest say it was in New Mexico…was my question.

      I received a note back from one who said that he could not recall if Forrest specifically mentioned New Mexico, but his notes said New Mexico. The second wrote me back to say that Forrest did not specifically mention New Mexico but she always believed it was in New Mexico so she wrote that.

      So..I sat around and considered. I’ve been a TV journalist since sprocket hole days and I know a thing or two about reporting and note taking and the difference between a feature story and hard news. I also know a thing or two about interview techniques and I feel I know some things about Forrest…

      After thinking about the failings of the two journalists to provide confidence that Forrest ever really did say New Mexico…and armed with some understanding of how “New Mexico” could easily get slipped into a story by listening to this tale of treasure from an old Santa Fean..
      I took off for other states the very next morning.

      In my opinion there is no evidence that Forrest ever said many of the things attributed to him by reporters. That’s why I try to base my search on what Forrest says…not on what others report that he said..


      • Dal, sprocket hole days, are you referring to pin feed printers? Wow, that takes me back. I think I still have a box of z-folded paper. Good ol’ 9-pin NLP printers. LOL

        I appreciate the clarification on NM. 🙂

        • Even before that…lol..I was referring to film..the days when all TV news stories and docs were shot on film. The perforations on the side of film opposite the sound track fit onto the sprocket of a projector…those perfs are typically referred to as sprocket holes.

  95. Also, you need to figure out where to end driving your vehicle and get out to search. Maybe you need to be wise to find the blaze and this is where you get out of the car.

    hi fundamental, just curious if you wanted to share any reasons you see in the book or poem that led you to consider this idea, the one i quoted above

    i think it makes sense as a structure for the puzzle

    • Chris and fd,

      This is exactly how I proceeded to find the initial blaze in my search. Then it was tarry scant and marvel gaze (i.e. no road and spectacular view) and then I proceeded to the X where I presumed I would just “take the chest and go in peace” But, alas, there was no chest at the X , only the other Blaze that I posted a picture of. Now, do I need to redo the whole “tarry scant with marvel gaze” thing? It would appear so. I attempted several different angles from the blaze, but to no avail.

      • I remember your saying you were going to post the pic, but I never saw it. Its not on the pics threads, or the ‘nines’ … unless it is archived. do you recall what thread it was posted on? Or the date? Thanks.

        • Hey OS

          Well, it was posted under The Blaze thread of course. dal was kind enough to provide a link to the photo. Check my comments on Aug. 26 under the Blaze comments. The post around noon on that date has the link.

          • Thanks Wind… found it. More like midnight than noonish. Not what I expected/hoped. Or you I guess.

      • Windsurfer, I know the feeling. I got stuck at my blaze and didn’t find anything intrigue so I’m still working on that.

    • Chris, There’s a basic logic level and a deeper level where we got to figure out a ff strategy to discover his clever blaze.

      The simple logic is ff basically has to tell us in the POEM where to stop our vehicle travels and get out to find the tc. One option I’ve been dealing with is a deeper clever way of doing that. He says if you are wise and found the blaze. So there is probably something that we have to construct or figure out from the poem to locate the blaze. I think he used the word wise which can be used in conjunction with the word that is key. My word that is key helps me to make my blaze.

  96. The Journey….First I think it was bought from a dealer in Toledo. If you do research on ancient coffin boxes you might see the picture of my thinking. Anyway, then it ended up further than 300 miles west in New Mexico. Then Wyoming came into play to prepare to hid the chest. Colorado is where the deep thinkers decided to have fun but I haven’t figured where exactly yet. Still waiting on a return call. Remember the little lady that can get all kinds of stations with her hair. Think about Amelia’s sister. The clue is in one of a Dals scrapbooks. Actually, there are messages in all of Forrest’s scrapbooks. Then onto Montana because it was the only place to that was just right. Then back to Wyoming. It was finished in New Mexico by the words of the poem.

    Now how much research have I done? It is my interpretations only. I could be 100% wrong or I could be confident when I get there. I am not talking about its physical journey. The meaning behind why he really put the chest I will keep only for me and Butterfly Journey. I think he had it planned even before he got cancer. That’s what I would do if I lived his life. What would you do?

    You can’t find the answer to The Poem unless you are out there looking. I remember pictures and intricate detail to the T. But god help me if I would remember a name. I don’t have all the answerS. I will not write Forrest with where I think it is, so far, the final answer I found in the wood is at the Library of Congress. So why waist his time. Great people there to help you, the library I mean.

    I will be heading out towards Montana this coming Sunday. I will be off the grid for a week. If yon want to send me a message, you now how to find me.

    I learned a lot over the last 10 years. I did not have a direction. I had to use the skills I know I was best at. From building my bikes from the town dump as a kid and still dumpster diving for a year in 2006 to build what I have today. I was proud then and I am proud to where I am now. I still dumpster dive but on Ebay. It’s just me.

    Indian Scout and a Saint


    • i always felt in the wood could also mean in books, in a library, in history, in a deep history you can only find with an extensive amount of research. but i never thought about library of congress.

      • Navyigator,

        That is an interesting concept. “if you are brave and in the wood” line could read as; If your taking on my challenge or dare and have my book / poem… wood could refer to the paper in the book itself. A play on words and straightforwards.

      • To some, the Delphi oracle about ‘wood’, meant ‘ships’.
        Athenas wise eyed owl was on every drachma, like the buffalo on the nickel.
        Fenn’s: “the answers I already know” … that leaves you wondering … sounds a lot like a rephrasing of Socrates famous, “I know that I know not”.
        Many overlapping levels of reference in this poetry.

        • Old Shadow,

          Could not agree more with, ” many overlapping levels of reference in poetry”.

          I still say to my self WTH when I read searchers stating, the last two stanzas don’t help or why are they there when you found the chest in stanza 4 etc.

          One said cold is just cold. I think to myself, have they ever looked up the meanings of the words? the chase poem is built on levels…IMO… no one definition for a word or phrase used will solve the entire poem. Wood [ in short ] can mean forest, an animal, wilderness, the edge of a treeline to an open field, timber [ possibly the product produced from it ], a dwelling and those are just some commonly used definitions.

          terms with the use of the word wood apply as well, such as ” I was in the wood all day” meaning in the saddle, which saddle meaning Mountain pass. Cold is just cold… Cold: of a seeker, far from the object sought, a popular term for when the moon is farthest North.

          Treasures; possessions important to the owner.

          Trove; riches or value, treasures of unknown ownership.

          These examples of some of the definitions are just the tip of the iceberg.
          The answers I already know… poetry / the chase poem has many overlapping levels.

          • So many meanings to brave and in the wood. One example would be: Brave like an Indian or brave could have a double meaning as in brave like an Indian and brave/fearless. Brave like an Indian may also isolate the region too. In the wood could be a small group of trees or specifically in between 2 trees. So maybe if your brave and in the wood you find the hidey spot obscured by the wood 🙂 just some ideas. I have my own personal solve.

          • I never knew the expression ‘in the wood’ meant in the saddle… ‘in the woods’ means something else to golfers I think. … using the wood clubs for long shots, Im neither a horse rider not golfer, so I dont know. I did work for Home Depot once, and ‘Im in woods’ meant you worked in flooring.

          • Old Shadow,

            Another told me the ole’ time meaning of in the wood as saddle… something I had long forgotten. If it pans out, that person will get a few coins, maybe a nugget or two. This is the reason I started reading the blogs, They are thought provoking.

            I not only enjoying the challenge of the poem, but the conversation of those I have had with – for lack of a better term- enlighten me towards different avenues of searching. Not just for the trove but for knowledge as well.

            Unfortunately I see some very intelligent folks backing away from the blogs. Folks that were willing to share their knowledge and insight for discussions on the poem and not all the hype and drama and spoils others attempt to bring to it. It sad when some just can’t control themselves or their emotions.

            Have you ever looked up the words Precisely, gone, home, already, leave, will, just to name a few? They have a lot in-common.

    • Dumpster diving – reminds me of my first husband finding/taking a 1940/1941 (?) Indian Motorcycle out of a farmers fence (it was being used as a patch). He put a lot of time and effort into it to return it to road ready condition.

      • JM that is very cool. I have always wanted to go out to these farms looking for an old Ford Mustang.
        Anyway, Jm, After I lost my Job. I would go out at night to all the tech business and pull any kinds of electronics out. You can get a visual of me with a flashlight in my mouth and a long pole sifting. I would get all kinds of electronics out. I would take them home and get all the good parts out of them and then sell them on Ebay. Since I already planned to open a repair business. I turned the money I got off Ebay and bought the equipment I needed to start my business. After about a year my 2 spare bedrooms were full of equipment I bought.
        My biggest find was a RF generator and I flipped that same week for $3500. I was on my way to bigger and better things. Since 2008, I repair and service the Semiconductor Fabs and Medical MRI systems. Lots of hard work and long hours 7 days a week. I had this drive.

  97. Have you ever played the game where one person reads a statement about something and then needs to verbally tell it to another person, and that person then tells another person, and it gets passed through however many people? Reporters are no better than anyone else in the transmission of information and detail; perhaps they are worse. They take what they hear and write it in their own interpretation trying to make it entertaining enough that people will actually read it.

    So Forrest says “I hid it in the mountains north of Santa Fe” and the report says “it is buried somewhere in the mountains of Norther New Mexico”. Is it the same statement? (rhetorical question)

    Do you see the problem and the reason Forrest later comes out and makes statements Like “I never said it was buried, and I never said it wasn’t buried; I just don’t want to give that as a clue” and “it’s hidden in the Rocky Mountains”?

    The argument you are trying to make for it being in NM works just as effectively, if not more so, for the TC not being hidden in NM. If the reporters interpretations were correct that it was “buried” and “in Northern New Mexico”, then Forrest wouldn’t have necessarily needed to make correcting statements; now think again about why he actually did come out with those statements after these early reports. Drink from the clean, pure spring – do not drink right below where the cattle are crossing.

    Do I believe that it is definitely not in NM? Reason tells me it could be in NM just as much as any of the other three states; perhaps Forrest just wanted to make sure that what he said was clear and not allow others to redefine what he had clearly stated from the get go. So, what does everyone else think?

    • JCM,

      I get what you saying, and that’s why I think it would be something if Mitch Albom or Margie Goldsmith or whomever ,would have an irrefutable audio statement from Forrest or something to that nature…

      Speaking of Goldsmith, Forrest keeps talking about his pretty daffodils and asks what color are they.

      Well, according to another nature loving guy that goes alone at his special place, they are golden and found beside the lake and beneath the trees.


    • ” Reporters are no better than anyone else in the transmission of information and detail; perhaps they are worse”

      Just thought about this statement a little more and I beg to differ.

      I think that quite the contrary, reporters pay closer attention to what they report than a regular person.

      And I don’t mean this disparagingly, but most of them do go to journalistic schools, don’t they?, and they must be taught stuff like “make sure what you print is correct” and such.

      I’m a mechanical engineer so these are assumptions on my part, but as I’ve been taught hours upon hours about speeds and feeds of metal cutting and temperatures of metal shavings, just the same a journalist must be pretty knowledgeable about reporting what it’s been conveyed to him.


    • I agree JCM; reporters these days are not very reliable. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen incorrect statements here about what he said. Some of it is because they are hearing what they want to hear, and some of it is because the statement is correct but taken out of context…..Others are just trying to stir up trouble.

      But some of it is Fenn’s fault. In one of the “Reports from Santa Fe” interviews the interviewer states that Fenn found the French graves during one of the times he was shot down. He was sitting right there and didn’t correct her. I think some of it is because he is polite, and some of it may be because he has trouble hearing what people are saying.

      I tend to give what he has written more credence because he is a professional writer and has time to compose his answer. I enjoy reading the question and answers from Jenny Kile’s site.

      • agree Goof,

        it is said by many, give much more weight to his written words.. i would say esp on the questions with Jenny Kile, this seems to be where he is putting a fair amount of time in his responses.

    • Forrest said that these days when someone is saying something that he knows is wrong he just stands there, acts smug and doesn’t say anything. He wants there to be confusion over which state the thing is hidden for obvious reasons. IMO, the book tells which state the chest is hidden.

    • Not sure it means anything, but Mr. Fenn recently commented to “look at the Big picture”. Two states look like a big picture…Colorado and Wyoming.

    • So how much faith do you put into reporters on ANY subject? for me NONE. Words straight from the horses mouth is still the best. Where is talking ED? Hmmmm FF said the flowers know, the trees know – I guess we are not listening. Have we lost those skills.

  98. So working on a new angle to an old solve. I cannot get away from the thought that wwwh has to to with the Uncompahgre Utes..(UU). So I decided to start at Uncompahgre Peak in the San Juan Mtns of southern Colorado. If you Google Earth yourself on the peak it seems quite clear what path is the best path the water would go down. However, it seems the largest canyon that goes down actually goes north. Which leaves me wondering if the ‘down’ used later in the poem also ref to not go south but north. from what i understand of our placement in the universe we actually ref up as down and down as up here on earth. hmmm??

    Without drawing this out too much further… i like the Black Canyon of the Gunnison. I think the Utes stayed clear of this area… calling it something like ‘much rocks, big water’… heavy loads and water high?

    Just some latest ‘nine clues’ thoughts


    • BTW, google earth yourself standing in the Gunnison River and click and travel through the Black Canyon, it is quite a site to see/not see. There are all sorts of natural hyperbole around each bend and all sorts of shadows crossing about. guess this is where boots on the ground could make a diff. Maybe this is where a trapper of old could come into play, some hidden cave out there only a few knew. Maybe the chest is sitting next to a barrel full of dimes in well secreted cave only known by him and some dead men. All were dead when he arrived and only he knew of this secret cave, mine alone.??

      just imaginative thoughts, imo

  99. I do not know why searchers keep trying to solve where the treasure is without taking a good look at the poem. People need to go back to the drawing board. The poem is all you need. I am not saying I know where it is, but I do not divert from the poem.

      • Just the poem? What about subtle hints like drawings with fans? Oh and gyp…I remember you told me that forrest told you that he drew that drawing and jf stood for just forrest. So many of us worked hard trying to figure that one out.

  100. Interesting observation:
    Mr. Fenn’s experienced Skinner story – has anyone made the connection with what the French Revolution and Napolean have in common and the his book TTOTC?

  101. Flutter by Butter fly but let me try. Next time I’ll be ready. Next time I’ll catch you. Then again there may be one more year but lets chase that butterfly while we can and put him in the chase case. Remember it take exact aim…. 🙂 🙂

  102. Here is a way outta theory about this chase. OK so some of you know about the connections I drew to Philadelphia(I can tell you more about that if you email me) about this chase and how the number 55 was in TTOTC a lot. Maybe Forrest believes in Reincarnation and this was a way to find out if it was really true. Maybe a famous person (a President) died some years ago and left something saying I will be back, and to put a chase for a pot of Gold out there and you will find me that way. OK here it is, Old Sante Fe Trading CO is located on Lincoln Ave in Sante Fe, and the address is 56, how old Lincoln was when he died. All throughout TTOTC it talks about important people and how well they spoke, and no better man than Lincoln ever existed at that. Maybe Lincoln said before he died that he would choose to be Reincarnated in PA because that was where his family is from. I know this is a crazy idea and is wacky but I do think this chest involves more than just some rich old guy stashing away a chest full of gold of giggles.

    vf2philly55 at gmail dot com

    • Philly I think your instincts are bang on. There exists a much more convincing argument to Lincoln that will blow your socks off. This is not it but there is another coincidental one that links Billy the Kid (there are photos of him as a boy pretending to be) to the Lincoln county war which was the famous battle Billy the Kid was involved. Not a big deal but there are several hints links to presidents – Is Lincoln the one?
      The Wolf

      • First of all I would love to have my socks blown off by the connection to Lincoln you have….. can you tell me? Or can you email it to me? vf2philly55 @ gmail dot com

        I think Lincoln is the one. Mary Todd Lincoln’s family ancestors were from Mont Claire PA new where Lincolns ancestors were from. Mont Claire is also the birthplace of the “Sundance Kid”. Mary Todd and A Lincoln were born in the year 1842, 42 as in the weight of the chest. On the chest is a “keystone” symbol on the front, where the key hole is. Like the “keystone” state, PA’s state symbol. Also Fenn’s book store is on Lincoln ave in Sante Fe and the address is 56 ( the age of Lincoln at his death).

      • This isn’t where I wanted to comment, yet you caught my interest. I was born and raised in Otero next door. White Oaks will always bring back memories of my dad taking me deer hunting. I got to write the story someday. It is so funny.

  103. Forrest has in a sense told us what state its in, or how to find that out

    he said people have cracked the first couple of clues

    crack one of the opening clues and you will know what state it is in

    no reason to try to pre determine the state. you still need to solve the clues, and thinking you know the state doesn’t solve the clues for you, and there is a 75 percent chance it would make it impossible to solve

  104. I wonder if a train or old traintracks is near where he put the chest ? I wonder about all kinds of things 🙂

    • Been there, done that Amy in Antonito. Pages 6 and 7 of TTOTC have some curious references to the old steam engine IMO. I even climbed up and looked right down the smokestack! Now that would have been a great hidey spot, but Mr. Fenn probably knew that some rambunctious and adventurous teenagers like he had been would be doing the same thing just for laughs. It is a popular ride right about now because the colors are changing.

  105. Good evening everyone. I hope your day went well. I was out the door this morning at 5:30 got home from work at 7:30. Heck my job is is only 5 min away. I did drop by throughout the day and listened. Some great thinking going on. I can hear it from way over here. I really don’t have much to add except the breakfast comment, because it’s an important meal. I was using omega’s all day long. Finally I figured out I missed one. The customer will be very happy tomorrow.

    Now, to go and find a post by Wolf and make a comment.

  106. I think the only way the 4th stanza is not the end stanza, is if “take the chest” does not mean the treasure chest. Could mean a trunk, like a trunk line (RR, oil/gas etc.)… or a river, Like Costilla creek ( means ribs in Spanish)…. or a street, like Chestnut Drive,…. in the words of the late, great Joan R…. can we talk?.

  107. I don’t know where to pose this question but I’m hoping someone could help me out a bit. I’ve seen a few “duck” references. My solve has me looking at a particular mountain in Wyoming on google earth to investigate before flying across the country (I’m from Ohio) right where I was honed in on under a huge woodpile ledge there’s a small cave. However upon zooming in on the cave there’s a giant beige/greyish ducks head. This would be too big to be real and there is no body. Just a head. Could someone have added the image to google earth? Does forrest have a “duck” thing? I would do the legwork myself but airfare is not cheap and the duck head is making me think its gotta be wrong or a sign from another searcher as a “decoy/wrong place” any thoughts? What’s the duck connection people refer to?

  108. For some, (perhaps most) this will be a repeat. But I feel there are enough newbies to justify reposting this perspective. There are many ways to approach the poem…this is one of mine, from a seed planted by germanguy, it grew into my own personal and complete solve, albeit built upon germanguys ideas of how to approach solving stanza six. I only repost part of it here…

    I always felt like stanzas one, five, and six went together because they all use the words I, my, I’ve, I’m, and Me. Those three stanzas are first person narrative…FF telling us what he did and what we must do.
    It seemed like stanzas two through four were directions to where the chest was at. It sounded like to me by the last line in stanza four, the location was divulged…so my line of thinking was that perhaps stanzas one, five, and six gave the directions to where warm waters halt, which was the starting point to the path to the chest.
    It was also logical to assume that the poem divulged the blaze by stanza four as well because it says “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down, your quest to cease, but tarry scant with marvel gaze, just take the chest and go in peace.” So by stanza four, the blaze has been divulged, whether geographically or literally. I believe stanza four is very important. Its purpose is to let you know that the blaze exists in stanza one, two, or three, and that you must be wise to find it. If you have been wise and found the blaze, then look quickly down to stanzas five and six, because if you found the blaze, they tell you where to go to find the path to the chest. So once you know the blaze, stanzas five and six reveal themselves a bit….

    Forrest’s suggestion to start at the beginning has always intrigued me. But as I studied line one looking for some sort of a clue, this inkling hit me. What if I was one? In the first line, with a little imagination, we see, “As ONE have gONE alONE in THREE”
    As one has one al one in three… is a true statement. A butterfly is really a flutterby, and there is really three??!! So I re-read the poem, this time substituting the word one wherever I saw the word I referring to FF, and if I saw the word one occurring naturally in the poem, I bolded them too. This is what I got…..( I left out one through three because they have no ones or FF referrals)
    As ONE have gONE alONE in THREE
    And with my treasures bold,
    ONE can keep my secret where
    And hint of riches new and old.
    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, (the blaze is I=one)
    Look quickly down your quest to cease,
    But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
    Just take the chest and go in peace.
    So why is it that ONE must go
    And leave my trove for all to seek?
    The answers ONE already know,
    ONE’ ve dONE it tired, and now ONE’m weak.
    If we count the total number of words we have changed/bolded…it equals nine. Next, in stanza six, he addresses us again….
    So hear me all and listen good,
    Your effort will be worth the cold.
    If you are brave and in the wood,
    I give you title to the gold.
    He is telling us to HEAR him and to LISTEN…OR IS IT LIST TEN? So let’s listen……
    So HEAR me all and LIST TEN good
    Your F ort will B worth the cold.
    F U R br A ve and N the wood,
    I give U title to the gold. (The URANIUM from stanza six is germanguys contribution to this solve)
    Okay, lets think about this. Count them up. F B F U R A N I U . = only nine letters…FBFURANIU. He tells us to list ten… We are exactly ONE’M WEAK (from the last line in stanza five) of spelling out FBF URANIUM. Ten letters. FBF = Forrest Burke Fenn…AKA the I in the poem…AKA THE BLAZE!! The Blaze is FBF!! But URANIUM…URANIUM??
    Why would anything having to do with uranium be a very special place to FF?
    Maybe because it saved his life when he got cancer? Maybe because the very thing that is a symbol of war, which FF has learned comes at great cost, saved his life in the end. How’s that for irony? And his confidence in the fact it will remain hidden for a thousand years? And we will be surprised where it is? And it’s safe but we must be brave and he was bold? Uranium could EASILY be a clue. But wait. That is just a clue to where warm waters halt. The chest itself may have nothing to do with uranium. Warm waters…Uranium…HMMmm… So let’s count clues:
    1. I=ONE
    2. FBF is the blaze
    3. URANIU M
    And we know what blaze to look for when we figure out the rest of the poem.This chase has become much like the universe, ever expanding, and changing. My advice is remember the center of the universe is where it all started, and staying closer to the middle is highly recommended by those in the know. Star gazing is fun, but those shiny ideas are usually the ones farthest from the truth, or center, if you will.

    Just another worthless opinion,
    Michael D

    • I went really basic and just found a road that led to a mountain that was literally called “warm water” then was able to match the clues up the mountain…I almost went out but now discouraged by the presence of a giant duck head in the cave below the wood ledge. ARRGGh!!

    • Hey Mike it’s not worthless. Another perspective is go to Wikipedia and do a search for “Deep map”. Some good info here too.

      • Peter – many thanks for introducing such an interesting topic – Deep Map – so obviously relevant to Forrest’s point of view and ethos. Stegner’s views are indicative of my own idealic childhood contrasted with an adult view of problems in the region each time I return. (downloaded Stegner’s “Wolf Willow”) Thanks.

        note: this won’t help solve the poem, but it will help you understand Forrest Fenn.

        Deep Map: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_map
        Stegner: http://econet.ca/sk_enviro_champions/stegner.html

        • Peter – Stegner’s weaves a clever story. A brilliant writer and thinker = gold. Easy to get lost in his words and forget about clues.

    • Seriously? @ Michael D – just as the uranium craziness had dissipated from my cranium, U had to re-open that scar on the earth? Yesterday, I thought I had a simple solve to plan a girls trip around, 🙂 yoU jUst torched it in a yellow blaze. back to the land of confUUsion !!! triple isotopes and throwing darts at my map. Even if the darts hit center, I’m clUUless. By the way, only U and G.ur-man Guy have what it takes to make the path to Ur-golden solve work (& Mr. Fenn is that smart tuu).
      Strapping on my webbed ice skates, the pond in Scandinavia is freezing over. Yes, my hide is chapped! U better prove your solve Michael D and find that treasure! Just kidding, well sort of.

  109. sometimes there are some very intelligent comments on here and sometimes not so…
    what I wonder usually a poker player wont show a winning hand, usually a poker player won’t show a winning hand …
    myself…sometimes I just feel really dumb. 🙂

    • @Jdiggins – glad to have your company – at the dummy table playing rummy – I finally purchased a permanent chair until my ticket to the poker table arrives. Can I get you a Grapette soda while we collect runs for a meld?

  110. Nothing to do with 9 clues…
    Just a SALUTE. :)/

    To the victims of 9/11, your country mourns with you and will never forget…
    May such tragedies cease to exist…somehow…

  111. Jdiggins, thanks for that. I’m sure many here feels the same way.

    I was thinking today, how sad it would be for us all when we no longer have Forrest with us. Not only has he been an inspiration, but also a very close friend to us.

    In one way or another, he has changed a number of lives for the better. We each will remember him differently, but remember him never the less. I was thinking of how I would remember him and saw it this way:


    It would be interesting to know how others would remember him.

    • Germanguy…
      Great vision on the slide…I think you hit a home run with that one! 🙂
      But I hope we will not have to “remember” forrest for a very long time! He has graced us all with so much; adventure, education, excitement, memories and the list goes on.

      Back to the salute….

    • German – thanks for that ‘wet-my-pants LOL moment!’ Thanks to Forrest, I slid down a scree field sideways, yelling sh@t to the amazement and utter delight of my 19 yr old who had never heard me say –it. Forrest, old boy – you better deploy bear spray on the sands of time and continue inspiring us for years. If you promise, then I give my word to walk right by your treasure chest, just like I didn’t see it.

  112. A thought on precision and coordinates.

    I can see at least one way the poem could provide precision to the treasure without the need for deciphering coordinates. If the poem led to a general area and from there to a narrower field of view that resulted in finding a cave, then that might be enough precision to find the chest upon searching a small cave much like Mr. Fenn has done on occasion.

    Can anyone think of other means that provide this kind of precision without coordinates?

    • It could also follow another literary reference that contained a location, be tied into another map…heck, it could be tied into another treasure hunt. That would be great if he had found another treasure and then replaced and reclued it. ha! I think it could easily be many different things for whatever that’s worth….

  113. Here is my take on HOB!
    There are 6 stanzas in the poem. I think stanzas 1 and 5 are just informational but do not contain any specific clues. So that leaves 16 lines to figure out the 9 clues.

    “16 Old Ladies Locked in the Lavatry, they were there from Monday to Saturday!”
    There was and old woman, Elizabwth Brown. Her dress went up and wouldn’t come down. Everyone said, Isn’t that Fanny Brown? And nobody knew she was there. 16 old ladies locked in the lavatry! Oh dear, what can the matter be? Nobody knew they were there!”

    Fanny Brown was an early American stage actress who became well known when her photograph was found on John Wilkes Booth dead body. She lived in Boston and California and probably in between. So I just have to figure out where and voila! HOB!

    So now I just have to figure out what Elizabeth Wooster and the other 15 ladies have yo say to figure out the other 8 clues.

    Forrest thank-you for the mind bender!

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