The Nine Clues…….Part Thirtysix

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This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

This post has been closed to new comments but you can still read all the old comments.

690 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…….Part Thirtysix

      • Guys and Gals, in the spirit of Christmas and Giving I have applied a money reward to my faux treasure hunt exercise. It ranges from $100.00 to $1,000.00 and is explained within the starting post. So if you could use some extra cash for a little bit of brain work then head over there and give it a try! Merry Christmas to one lucky girl or guy.

  1. all the talk of mirrors has me thinking…reflection…how does that apply to look quickly down, your quest to cease, but tarry scant with marvel gaze?
    anyone with any hints in the book re: reflection, thinking, etc? haven’t had time to devote to this last stanza, but its key…
    and remember, as always, anyone who helps with a useful hint, IF I find the treasure will get their own bonus from it…… 🙂 and I would hope you would all do the same…..

  2. If anyone gives anything useful the million non posters will be there before the person who gave the useful clue. You won’t have to worry about sharing anything unless the chest is 5 feet from you at this moment.

  3. As I sit here I had to think about WWWH and The best description I’v come across was a analogy of the warm waters in the gulf of mexico that were warmer than the Atlantic ocean or the pacific ocean. These warm waters don’t generally cool very much until the water mixes outside the gulf . This is just my opinion . That is the most logical start where warm waters halt that I know .

  4. I worked on this one last night. Because the line “Begin it where”…has no period at the end, I think clue (1) is “Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down” Everyone knows my “BEGIN” theory starting at “Not Far” so I wont go there. (2) Not far, but to far to walk. (3)Put in below the home of Georgias R. Brown…(I had to do it )….
    (4) Now, I’m thinking the whole next stanza is all one clue, a statement saying “don’t go that way….(upstream)…
    (5)If you’ve been wise and found the blaze
    (6)Look quickly down , your quest to cease
    (7) I think this next stanza also is all one clue. IMO , it has to do with him being retired from the military and becoming a public citizen. Tired=Retired , and the
    word “weak”= WE a.k. ….us, the public.so,…
    Why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek?
    The answer(s) I already know,
    I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak
    (8) So hear me all and listen good
    Your effort will be worth the cold
    (9) If you are brave and in the wood I give you title to the gold

    Thats how I think it adds up

  5. My first solve for WWH was related to ocean currents. Warm currents turn cold in the east near Labrador and in the west a bit north of Alaska. Lots of canyons down there. One partial solve had me beach in Monterey CA

    • To narrow your search a little. ” The treasure is hidden some place in the rocky mountains. Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico. Pick one lol.

      • Eenie meenie miney mo, catch a frog by his gold toe. If he hollers make him say which state hides the lode of pay!

      • Chad,
        But where to begin is one of the bigger questions for me. I was a newbie surrounded by folks who had been searching for a good while and I thought I should think outside the norm. I intended to be in the Rockies eventually. I still glance back now and then though.

  6. If you all would like to know what I think…..this is what I just posted on another blog..
    Lynn D
    on December 19, 2014 at 3:24 pm said:

    Hello Bob and Tom, I am just finding this site today and imagine my surprise when I see Lynn D mentioned about being at the Vietnam Memorial in Angel Fire this past Novemember. I did get your message while there on Dals blog. I have thought that WWWH is the Vietnam Memorial in Angel Fire and had never seen anyone else post about it in a similar fashion until just now. I believe it is there for slightly different reasons , although I agree with most of yours. I have never written my thoughts about this on other blogs. IMHO WWWH is the Vietnam Memeorial in NM because Forrest thinks no one cries anymore ( warm waters halting )and has moved on and forgotten those that have served and lost their lives in battle. Everyone had forgotten about the French soldiers as well. I thought Forrests’ chapter “My War for Me” was very sad indeed and telling about Forrest. I found it sad just because he thinks no one cries anymore and everyone is forgotten or just an asterisk in time, something that he himself did not want to become. I believe this is the main reason he wrote the poem and left the treasure. Getting kids and families off the couches was secondary to this, IMO. He significantly down plays his role in the war and the effects of his war on him, yet this chapter is by far his LONGEST chapter( which I will comment further on below). I don’t have the TOTC book with me
    ( unusual , I lug it with everywhere ) so I will be paraphrasing somewhat in stating that he was left with no scars but with memories that still resonate deep inside like a missed heartbeat. I thought this profound. He also wrote if you see a soldier stairing off, just walk away and let him be. So Forrest down plays his experience but this chapter is long, 27 pages or so long. I found this contrary to his words too. I had thought this 27 miles to be the distance that is not far but too far to walk when you take rt 64 into the canyon down. I think rt 64 for other reasons too. The poem is 6 stanzas and each is 4 lines long, a quatrain that Omar Khayyam is known for in the رباعیات‎ or the Rubaiyat. Forrest writes about the 2 books he bought to read. He makes a point of mentioning their size, just 6″X4″. As for the home of Brown, it could be Eagles nest lake, although I don’t feel strongly about this , but there is that black and white picture and the fact that he states that searchers have been close in proximity to the first 2 clues but overestimated their complexity and sailed right past the other 7….
    One last thing about the memorial, when you’re there and you look all around the memorial is surrounded by mountains just like the black and white picture of boys playing marbles…
    So, this is what I think. However, I did discover that Forrest is wrong in writing or thinking that no one cries anymore. I did and couldn’t help it. I can not begin to describe the emotion I felt while being at the memorial, almost just like a missed heart beat deep inside…..I believe many others feel the same as evidenced by all the boxes of tissues placed on the seats there…

  7. Need to focus posted on 9 clues which is now archived:

    “Jack, interesting about the winter solstice idea. I have been working with the opposite that the blaze is the summer solstice. But this has been just a hunch, with not much else to go on. Also, my bias has been sunrise, not sunset. Is there anything else, besides the dates in TTOTC that leads you to sunset in winter (Dec. 21)? You don’t have to share, just curious.”

    Needtofocus, I also began with the idea that it was sunrise on the summer solstice because the poem has 6 stanzas and 24 lines. June 24 (6/24) is Midsummers Day which is celebrated with bonfires (blazes). I then discovered that the sun RISES on the summer solstice at any particular location in the NE aligned on a straight line with the position of the sun SETTING in the SW on the winter solstice. So in other words, the sunrise on the summer solstice is a mirror image of the sunset on the winter solstice. Likewise the shadows cast on those dates and times are mirror images. I am leaning toward sunset on the winter solstice because of wording in the poem, such as warm waters halt, no paddle up your creek, effort worth the cold, and end is ever drawing nigh. Also more importantly, the events of his life that occurred on the winter solstice of 1968 seem to be central to the theme of the book and chase.

    Either way, the sun’s position on a particular date and time would be a blaze that would endure for thousands of years – think of Stonehenge. Also if it is sunset on the winter solstice, you wouldn’t have to be there that day. You would just need to know the sun’s position at that time and date. You can be wise and find the blaze without necessarily seeing the blaze.

    • The one place where the solstices, equinoxs’, and moons have been tracked by using landmarks that have been around for thousands of years is Chaco Canyon.

      On another thought: “Not Far” = near, and thus ever nigh.

      • Ever Nigh(t) I don’t think Forrest would crawl into a cave but maybe a cave- (urn).
        Has anyone even considered he might want to be cremated and his ASHES spread out over the 4 mountain area, thus giving truth to buried next to the treasure. I’m seeing alot of references to FIRE in his stories. Firepower. He’ Fires his kiln for his brass bells.He collected tires (Firestones likely) on his trip with Skippy. Think ….FIRESTONES = CAMPFIRE RING
        Two old dead bitties = TWO SLEEPING BAGS
        I’m thinking the place to look is where the family stashed their gear on their way to Yellowstone. It wouldn’t be behind a waterfall, but he said it was there every year when they returned.
        Problem is, during the depression, if it was me, I would take the shortest route, which takes me out of New Mexico, my fave. But it might give a spark to those who are looking in the Double Eagle,… Eagle county, Eagle Colorado.

        • How bout’ the Post mark from COLLEGE STATION….bACKWARDS….no its at EGEL COL.
          Remember, he misspells knowlege (knowledge) on the brass bell. Know the ledge?
          KNOW THE LEDGER. The list. The list of contents in the chest. He starts out with American Eagles and Double Eagles.

    • Jack,
      Thanks for your input. I also noticed that sunset on winter solstice is the same azimuth/bearing as sunrise on summer solstice (same angle, but just a 180 degree shift). I have been to my place twice very close to summer solstice and watched the sun top the horizon from a specific place. It was spectacular. It did not lead me to the chest like I hoped, but then I am not fully clear on what to do with this bearing and distances involved. Certainly there would be more to explore in opposite direction corresponding with sunset in winter. Then again, I may have the wrong area/place or even the wrong state! Maybe that is why I have not found it ; ).

      I sure would love to see my area on winter solstice – both sunrise and sunset. That would be special…. but cold!

  8. I believe quite a few searchers have used the Angel Fire War memorial as their wwwh–over the years others have posted on Dal’s blog using this location, including Dal, I think. Agua Fria is within a mile of it, so the wwwh (tears) stop at Agua Fria.

    • Cynthia, that was one of my first searches. I was with my grandson and we had a blast. Crossed the road where the waters met. I just couldn’t feel that was the area. I recall that I was using the runway across the road as the blaze. Looking back I learned how vast the Rocky mountains are.

  9. I have a question if anyone can answer it. Folks keep saying people / someone has been writhing 50 feet of the chest. I can’t find forrest saying that anywhere. I found 500 ft but not 50. If someone could even point me in the right direction, I will do the research.
    Does anyone know where that is said or is it another mis-qoute gone haywire.

    I am trying to finish typing up everything and I want to make sure I have it correct to what it is today.

    Thanks.

    • I’ve tried to read everything that Forrest sends to Dal and Jenny, and says in interviews, and to my knowledge Forrest never said 50 feet. I think it is a misquote of the 500 foot comment he made a while back.

    • Arrrrg….
      I’m in agreement with CJ. I have never seen where he said 50 foot.

      But, if someone can provide a link, I would definitely be interested also.

      • Gold fever, the 200 feet in the article could very well be false as to what f has said of searchers being within said 200 feet. My reasoning is the quote in the article that says Fenn’s memoir is called “The Thrill Of The Hunt.” My keen recollection is that is is called “The Thrill Of The Chase.” I don’t have my book on my person at the moment so don’t correct me if the “Of The” is actully “of the.” I dont believe capitalization matters much in this case, IMO.

      • Take a closer look at the inaccuracies in this article such as the title of Forrest’s book as “The Thrill of the Hunt.”

    • I’ve seen the 50 feet comment SOMEWHERE! But for the life of me now…I can’t find it! its eating me up knowing my eyes once saw it yet now they cant find what they saw.

  10. ? for other searchers. IF you knew where Forrest’s secret spot was, would you reveal it or keep it secret. I’m talking in the past tense after the treasure had been removed.

    • Hi Sally,

      There is no benefit for the winner to reveal the location. In fact, it could be a serious detriment, since for sure the location belongs to somebody else or the government.

      Also, the puzzle is probably so excellent that so many people might prefer to continue trying to figure out the spot themselves.

      I hope the person who does find it only takes on the role of “dungeon master”, allowing the adventure to continue like a game of Sardines.

      • As for me finding the chest. My thought is I may take just enough to be comfortable and leave a killroy on paper with the remainder just to say I was here first 🙂

        In this manner the chase would go on.

    • Sally

      If I found the chest I would most definetly reveal it 🙂

      Everyone in this world would love to know what it was about 🙂

      • Amy I’m not asking about revealing the chest. I was asking about the spot it was hidden in. Yes I too would reveal the chest had been found. I believe other searchers deserve to know.

        • Sally,

          It would be nice to know where the chest was found but it would also be really interesting to be able to see what all is inside it… imho…

    • How long does it take to become a legend? If a searcher finds and removes the treasure from Forrest’s secret spot but does not go public that they found the treasure or reveal the secret spot, how long will they need to keep quiet for it to become a legend? If Forrest created this treasure hunt for the purpose of legend maybe the searcher who finds the treasure can play an active roll in that legend. Just saying. Not saying I would or wouldn’t or that I do or do not know of Forrest’s secret spot and IMO.

  11. Well,

    Winter solstice is here and I promised that’ll give away my clues at this time.
    So here it is…

    The Vietnam Veterans Memorial is my WWWH… only not exactly the Memorial itself, but the actual clue that refers to it. Lynn D made an excellent case for it, and maybe she’ll allow me to add this to the list “the warm-eyed Vietnamese woman that did my laundry” – Scrapbook 96.

    Remember Forrest’s words, “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did.”
    Well there you have it, the Memorial is one of those place, I believe the only one, that didn’t exist when he was a kid.

    And here is my interpretation of some of his clues.
    They are the HYSTORICAL MARKERS put in on the side of the roads.
    My warm waters halt VERY precisely here: N 36° 26.369 W 105° 17.366

    http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMCYTZ_Vietnam_Veterans_National_Memorial

    …and remember that in TTOTC, “the lines crossed where they were supposed to, metaphorically speaking” 😉
    Have fun drawing ever nigh…

    Merry Christmas!

    • Hmm {} I disagree. IMO heavy loads/ water high didn’t exist when F was a kid neither did HOB or the blaze. IMO

        • IMO, the clues did not exist yet because Forrest was still young and had not lived his life yet. I believe the clues come from the history of living his life, perhaps the saddest and the happiest times of his life.
          Thanks for your interlretation of wwwh {}. I thought the mile marker that correlated with how many missions he said he flew while in Vietnam told me I was heading in the correct direction. It was on the way to the memorial. However in his second book he changed the number of flights to the 300s.

      • Ed,

        Heavy loads and water high… to be clear, we’re talking about a dam here; right? Were else could he throw his bicycle but in a very deep water (he thought of everything).
        And when you approach a dam from downstream, what do you see? Imagination tells me “heavy loads” and behind them there is “water high”.

        So, how can one represent the crescent shape of a dam in a drawing?

        “Houston, The Eagle has landed!” – where did that particular eagle landed? I don’t think I’ve heard of any other bird landing on that crescent object.

        Now all you have to do is throw in a nest for good measure, and the name is complete: three words all in the drawing.

        Yes, A LOT of people looked around, and probably all of them went down that canyon toward the place for not-so-meek, but the special place is right there at the base of the blaze 🙂 and indeed there will be no more paddling up the creek from that spot… impossible really. But with a little imagination, you can still “swim” trough the flue back into the lake and see the place for the first time, figuratively speaking.

        Now, onto the picture on page 124… why so many trout?
        Because they cannot go any further; that’s the terminus of their run, and the waters there are called “holy waters”.
        That’s his secret fishing hole, and also his secret place; the “dark pit” that is a “good place to stop… don’t you think”

        IN THERE
        Is the chest buried or exposed? Forrest wouldn’t tell… too much of a clue. WHY???
        If it’s buried and saying so, he’s not going to help anyone really. Same goes for exposed, albeit it would help a little, as people would stop looking under boulders and such.
        Therefore the chest has to be located in a cave of sorts.

        Well, there is one right there at the base of the dam and furthermore, there are even handrails to help getting in and out. Being carved in stone, it’s not really associated with any structure.

        Anyway, I think that people are overcomplicating it.
        Reading the comments below, it seems like a forgone conclusion that clues were not existent because he didn’t define them as clues yet… but I believe that is a wrong interpretation. Clues are physical objects and they refer to places… hence markers, well… to each his own 🙂

        • Interesting observation on the crescent photo {}. The way I see it. A bird is sitting in the middle of the moon surrounded by black and let’s not forget the bird and moon are white. Interpretation a cave looks black from the exterior and inside is white. Oreos crunch crunch. How do I know? Well, I’ve been in a few of them. Now about the clues thing I’m scratching my head it seems maybe a convoluted answer. How can one have clues without a chase. I will say this though. The current structures have dates on them and Forrest was born way before those dates. Yea I know they existed in other iterations but still there not exactly the same and now about that blaze hmm…..

    • None of the “clues” existed when he was a kid. The “clues” are in the poem which is in his book and they were not written yet.

      • “but most of the places the clues refer to did.”

        It is my opinion that only 1 place did not exist when he was a kid and that place is one of the clues.

      • Exactly, the clues were not written then but the mountains and river bottoms already existed. You only need the poem. I’d say that you don’t need any knowledge of Forrest to find the chest.

    • “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did.”

      This answer to this Q&A is an interesting one, as it can have as much interpretation as the poem itself.

      Personally I see this answer as; The clues did not exist when he was young, simply because the poem did not exist. fenn invented the clues to be place in the poem for all to seek, sometime is the late 80’s

      But, most of the places that the clues refer to did exist. Which simply states that the places he talks of, were around when he was young and before. IMO those place would / should be prior to fenn adulthood.

      This answer is similar to another in reference to US history [ if you are not sure of the question, if can be found at Mysterious Writing]. fenn was ask if any part of US history is needed…answer NO. Some may think this eliminates all history in the, now known, USA Boundary. IMO it if refers to the land prior to The USA as an independent Nation. Any recorded history from that date on, is most likely not usable.

        • 9clues,

          Just to clarify, ‘anything that came into being after the late 30’s’ ….are you referring to the US history or the clues not existing when he was a kid?

        • …’the clues did not exist when I was a kid’, that tells me we’re suppose to find clues that ONLY came into existence after, let’s say 1940.

          Anything minted afterwards, monuments, parks, Benchmarks, landmarks, even a Dam could fit, just not WWWH. Do I think the Cadillac Ranch in Tx qualifies ? Well, it may not last forever, but it shows some imagination.

      • Seeker,
        Interesting take on the date of independence as the day US history began. Some would argue US history goes back long before that. I view his above statements as more definitive and useful and that US history is not required but any historical knowledge has to be classified as comprehensive knowledge of geography.

        The statement is much more revealing than what most give it credit:
        1) The clues didn’t exist when he was a kid- he was 58 when he started thinking about making them
        2) It is implied those are his clues and he owns them.
        3)” most of the places the clues refer to did” – this is the valuable part of the hint. It means that at least one of the places did not exist when he was a kid, yet he says those places might only exist 100 years and due to the geographical changes the Rockies experience, and he would not guarantee 1000 years.
        4) This is a conundrum, since he was talking about finding the treasure 1000, 2000 and even 10,000 years from now. Thus the places are vulnerable to change but the treasure can still be found long after they disappear? Worth thinking about.
        5) Unless, these places will be marked by history books, preserving their place as mental markers for the future millennium or the longevity numbers are further hints.
        6) If “some” of those places did not exist as a kid, then at least one of the places were created after he was a kid and before he hid the treasure (more likely before he got cancer); or that at least one of those places were destroyed prior to his birth (thus requiring imagination) and only marked in the history books but since it doesn’t require knowledge of US history then marked by the comprehensive knowledge of geography.

        Thus if one is using a checklist of Fenn Facts as a solution evaluator, one would interpret this checklist item requires: “at least one of the physical places the 9 clues refers to – did NOT exist when Forrest was a kid.”

        Thus if all the places existed when he was a kid, the solution is invalid. IMO that is very helpful and would kill probably 98% of known solutions so I can understand why searchers would not like this interpretation.

        Just something to consider,
        The Wolf

        • … I am all for “the clues” being no older than 26 years old, that further whittles down the possibilities. I like your phrase: solution evaluator & I have to constantly remind myself of that key.

          But I defer your #3, we’re trying to separate the landscape from the clues. So if he tells me NONE of the clues, then I’ll go with that. I so enjoy learning about the West, in ways that I never could have imagined. I think Thomas Jefferson said it might take 100 generations to ‘people the west’ but we did it about 50 yrs

          • Thanks, I am building quite a comprehensive list of “solution evaluator” criteria. I was useful when evaluating GG’s solution when he challenged the board and I find it very useful to quickly see the faults in many my other dreamed solutions. Dal/Goody have a pretty good list started already.
            The Wolf

        • Iron Will said,

          “but most of the places the clues refer to did.” f

          “It is my opinion that only 1 place did not exist when he was a kid and that place is one of the clues.”

          – I also agree with that. And it goes along with why the clues MIGHT exist in another 100 years or in the year 3009, but because of the associated changes that come with time and its impact on the physical landscape, the treasure would be more difficult to find.

          But regardless of whether or not the clues will exist in the future or not, …..it can still be found, because NOTHING is stumble proof, is it? 🙂

        • Wolf,
          The use of the word “exist” as well as the use of “refer” IMO work together.

          “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did.”

          Exist, can be both past and present, meaning that the statement can hold true for both.

          The clues did not exist when he was a kid…for the fact they no longer are physically around. But at the same time left their “mark” in the knowledge that they did. but…the fact that some of the most f the places did exist are only in reference or referred to and such, still exist in the knowledge of, just not physically.

          This use of words fall in line with words in the poem as well. There and where, may not be a physical place as much as a place in time that no longer exist physically.

          The conundrum is the same as buried vs hidden. One will say ‘covered’ is buried, yet another would say ‘covered’ is hidden.
          In reference to “exist”, it works the same as what it refers to. Is it the physical place or the place when it was?

          • Seeker,
            When it comes to philosophies of how one interprets the physical state of the clues, there will be no settling this debate.

            1) If one believes the 9 clues are 9 physical places,directions or objects on a map, then it is very obvious to see that Fenn created the clues by working backwards from the secret location (because he knew right away where he would hide it) using 9 separate physical waypoints as route markers.
            2) This concept has overwhelming evidence to back it up since he clearly stated the clues are “straight forward” and he “wasn’t playing any games.”
            3) The “give it to a kid/child” (not sure which is the exact word he used) statement prohibits me from wavering from a simple and physical interpretation of the clues.

            If one uses a concept other that this, then I can fully understand the importance of interpreting his “clues did not exist when I was a kid” statement differently.

            Enough thinking for the day, it is time to take “Suzie” for a ride! 😉
            The Wolf

          • Hey Seeker, I always believed Forrests response “the clues didn’t exist when I was a kid” was simply because he had not written them yet, he was still a kid. The physical places were either there or not, only he knows which. Just makes sense to me.

          • Oh never mind me, I made the same mistake again reading from the bottom up and replying to your post Seeker, before reading everything. I got to stop doing that.

      • Plus, you also can add in there (IMO). Define kid. Is that age, how you feel, how one sees them self. I mean come on, we are all playing a big giant Easter egg hunt. Well with a golden egg. But we are also learning so that would again turn Fenn into a teacher with a incredible style. With one stroke of his pen (a long, extremely thought out stroke) he has single-handedly become the teacher in the worlds largest home school class. He has even worked in field trips.

        Brovo- Mr. Fenn. All of your students pay attention, do there home work and some have even learned manners. On top of that, some (not all yet). are all listening well.

      • Seeker,
        Another thought is that prehistoric times by definition is not history. It is simply a time prior to written records and is at different times in different areas of the world. For what its worth

        • Onecorgi,
          I would agree somewhat… It’s more to teachings, than history. Or maybe a better way of putting it is, Knowledge past down from one generation to another. In either case, it boils down to the same, Understanding / learning of the past.

          • I agree with your clarification. Many a traditions were eventually reduced to writing, perhaps millennia later

          • Afterthought: one might argue and I would agree there is a difference in quality between verbal tradition and written history.

            There is a difference but I don’t know which one to trust more?

          • We could debate that all day and both of us would have good points. Myths and legends have been passed down in verbal and written methods…The city of Troy was once called a myth, Atlantis still is… maybe some day we will find the truth.

            Is that not what the thrill of the chase represents? at least in-part.

            Some say, to know the man is to know the poem… I like to think of it as, to know the reason is to know the poem. but that is only an opinion.

          • You all know where I stand on the stories/myths/legends subject.
            I take it even farther and suggest that not only is the written word involved but also art and music. Verbal histories handed down throughout time in many forms.

            So many hints at this subject in Forrests writings.

            Look to the night sky, its there for us all to see.

            Back to your discussions. 🙂

    • When Forrest was a kid the united states was not engaged in viet nam. do not think the memorial is wwwh is.
      Also he lived in Montana during his early years.

        • Yes and the war memorial did not exist at that time. I would suggest some research of the area of the memorial and see if it pans out when viewed with logic. At all times it would be prudent to check and recheck the various elements of the poem . Forrest knows about triangulation and as some have suggested we may be looking at several different areas that intersect at a given point.

          Thanks for the productive input

    • The only thing I don’t understand about this thought process is- after reading comments and excerpts from forrest about his feelings about senselessness of war/ erasing humans propensity to fight/ leaving each other alone etc. it is hard for me, personally, to accept that he would want to leave any part of his legacy/trail in a place that is a reminder of war and violence. ‘If you see a soldier staring off, look away or leave them alone’…didn’t he actually say something to that effect? Why would he hide his treasure or leave his bones and soul amongst anything but the warmest memories he has? Would Veitnam or War in general be a ‘warm, place he wanted spend eternity in and/or hidden amongst? I’m not so sure it’s logical.

      • You leave your legacy in the environment that you, yourself create. Is it cold? Then warm it before you leave. It’s yours to do what you will.

          • I agree with the statement, but I don’t understand what you are implying? Is F or someone else trying to control the actions of others that you feel is unjustly? Or are you just randomly discussing life in general? How does this relate to the Vietnam Memorial? I’m sorry, I don’t know what your mean or how to respond. Could you clarify?

          • To reply to your question below; even if you are graced with the means to manipulate or control another’s actions. An honorable man refrains from exploiting that advantage.

          • Your description of Ms. Ford analgous to the can opener was amazing in it’s detail. Slight under bite and high cheek bones? Long nose (not really, probably a consequence of angle) How did you come by such an elaborate inventory of anthropomorphistic characteristics Jamie? It’s almost as if your had some particular image (photographic) image in mind.

          • Actually I had several images in mind. The main two I had were the only two images Forrest has given us. First- his own ‘artwork’ composed of wood that he titled “Ms. Ford” and published on this website. Second the image of old can openers that resemble the shape of his composition. Then I thought ‘I know that look like that’ and used Mr. Smithers as an example…there’s lots of people like that- those characteristics are just the ones that appeared depicted in the two images I saw.

        • Of course. That explains it all. High cheekbones (yes). Long nose (not really). Small, delicate chin ( yes). Over bite (yes). But you forgot the large turquoise eyes. But then, you wouldn’t have been able to detect that their color.

          • Go to bed Jamie, it’s past your bedtime. And don’t forget to say your prayers. You need all the grace providence will provide.

          • Jamie Try looking at the outline of those images, not so much to the detail.
            Could it be a depiction of a lake?

          • Ummm….once again I have no idea what you are upset about. Forrest made the Art and forrest related it to a can opener. Are you mad that made a guess based on the shapes given? If he said she looked like a kiwi I would guess she had a tan, hairy, round face…I personally have an upside down triangle face with a wide forehead and a tiny jaw and chin. I often cover my forehead with a bandana…yet still have no idea why you are insulting me for taking my best guess at a puzzle- back off kujo- your aggression haphazard and not understood.

  12. PAC Man

    I loved that game and still do 🙂
    At times I felt like a PAC Man pro until I ran into the ghost or they ran into me 🙂 lol

  13. Amy, sharpen your teeth and get your fins up. You’ll be circling with the Sharks >}^}*> for parking spots today!

  14. Lia

    Lol yes here’s what stinks is that I’m in a big truck it’s hard to park so I have to park far away 🙁

    • Amy, bundle up and enjoy a brisk walk. It’s a wonderful time to be alive… to celebrate the birth of the King of Kings who wrapped Himself in human flesh so the world could understand his amazing grace and love! You have such a positive attitude on Dal’s blog which must bless your friends and family 😉

      • Lia

        It was actually a beautiful day in Texas . I have the shopping done 🙂

        Yes the king of kings how mighty he is I’m proud God sent his son for us to be saved. The best gift in the world the most important.

        Yes I try to stay positive otherwise I will pray and just smile 🙂

  15. I had tried to read everyones comments but it just made my poor little brain hurt.so I unsubscribed but things still were coming through. Maybe there’s something Im supposed to see. After an illness sometimes your mind doesn’t work the way it used to anyway I will check in when l can and try to keep up.when it warms up lam looking forward to getting out into the great outdoors.who knows l may just stumble upon the treasure myself.Good luck to all and have a merry Christmas.

    • Dewey, the comments will always be here when you are feeling better. Give yourself time to recover. 🙂
      Merry Christmas to you too!

  16. WWWH, THOB, the blaze, etc., …..I’m not even worried about those. I mean, eventually someone will figure it out. And as far as the chest is concerned, I know it’s out there somewhere. I have no question on whether he hid it or not. I know he did. I believe. 🙂 Really, the only thing that even vexes me, and I don’t actually ‘worry’ of course, but have thoughts about, because there surely is no requisite until one actually holds the ‘cold’ bronze in their hands, …..is whether or not one will even be able to keep it when it IS found??

    Yes, I know ff said he thought of everything, and maybe that is a clue in itself for such? 🙂 But laws change and land ownership/rights also change …..all the time. What could have been legal once may not be now or may even be when Sitting Bull is discovered? Just thoughts…….. For I suppose, if one “takes the chest and goes in peace”, then no worries, right? Although, after all these stories and pictures of the contents that he has posted, …..it seems it might be a little bit difficult to do anything with it, besides keep it to ones self completely. Who knows, maybe one day someone will have the right bargaining chips 🙂 to be in a position to perhaps ask Mr. Fenn what would be the appropriate way of handling such? But I’m sure he thought of everything. 🙂 Hmm……….

    • Suzie…

      I feel your pain, however (and this is my opinion on the matter) I feel Forrest has outsmarted us all on the issue of ownership. Dal stated that he has searched all the property records he could of Forrest, but if he did truly think of everything, he saw a person like Dal coming. I have a strong feeling that the chest is on his own property but that property is “hidden” under a fake company label. This would keep all the Dal’s from discovering his properties.

      And here is the kicker… If it IS on his property then by the letter of IRS law it is not defined as a “treasure trove”. Let me try to explain:

      IRS law states a treasure trove is treasure that
      anyone finds; specifically: gold or
      silver in the form of money, plate,
      or bullion which is found hidden
      and whose ownership is not not
      known.

      By the inclusion of the word “AND” Forrest’s treasure is not a “treasure trove”. At that point is considered a GIFT. And cannot be taxed until such time as you liquidate it for cash value. Then I believe it is considered a Capital Gains Tax.

      There is another definition of a Treasure trove that states any archeological resource or precious metals that contain monetary value, lost or abandoned and found by a finder of who it does not belong.

      Also here Forrest’s treasure is not a “treasure trove” if it is on his property for he personally put it ON his property and he has the ability to watch over it. So it is not LOST or ABANDONED. And his poem as stated that it belongs to you if you find it.

      Forrest tried to think of everything. I believe he thought of this.

      • Look up ‘trove’. When defined by law it needs to have a deceased owner and even then still (while case by case) rulings generally require they be abandoned for several decades in addition to that. This is not a trove. It has an owner and a written consent of title.

          • IMHO he tell’s us in the poem..So hear me all and listen good if you are brave and in the wood I give you TITLE! to the Gold..IMHO if they drag you into Court and grill you while your sitting in the Wooden chair Your Reply should be Forrest Fenn Gave Me Title to this.and it is mine! and Your Effort will be worth the Cold of sitting within them 4 wall’s..just a random thought..maybe.

  17. With my new attempt at a solve:
    The key is not a word
    I must solve line 9

    Anyone else arrive at this end?

    • line 9= “f” are “o” m (“t” here,in front)= t omit’s (no “p”)lace for the meek= tla ce for the meek. now read from right to left= kee me h (“t” are “o”) f (ec alternate)= kee me h of ce= key me h of (see) e. this equals: key me h of e. need letter values…

      • Charlie, looks like your kinda using my BEGIN theory but complicated. Look:
        As for the sandwich and flashlight hint.
        ( Sand wedge ) = Golf Club = Club Sandwich
        —Bring a club–

        try this one : Its Christmas Mary,
        Two time kiss under the milestone be happy
        Gumby! I stand under this.
        Have a Firestone
        And pray for whirled peas.

        It’s Merry Christmas
        Time to kiss under the mistletoe n’ be happy
        By gum! I think I understand this.
        Have a Good Year
        And pray for world peace.

  18. Another defennintion for draw:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draw_(terrain)
    “a draw is perpendicular to the ridge, and rises with the surrounding ground, disappearing up-slope. A draw is usually etched in a hillside by water flow, and often contains a stream or loose rocks from eroded rockfall.”
    That should help us visualize drawing nigh and no paddle up your creek, and maybe heavy loads and water high. I should go canyon down and take a turn up a draw in the canyon wall/ridge.

    • fins-
      I don’t believe he has. But what makes you think it has a title? If he did not write it for publication perhaps it does not have a title. There is an autobiography intended for his family that he titled “Rumblings and Ramblings”. Tony Dokoupil mentioned it in the Newsweek story from August 27th 2012.

      • Is there a digital copy of these ‘ramblings…’
        They’d be great to read!

        (ive tried in vain to find an email to Mr Dokoupil..)

      • i always assumed TTOTC was the autobiography (or a miniaturized copy thereof) ff placed in the chest, since that’s the way he describes TTOTC in the section of the book entitled, “Important Literature” (last line of the next to last paragraph).

  19. It was a thought i had that he would title this work.I have tried to find most of his interviews but have probably missed some along the way.I was not sure if the topic had ever been brought up.The whole painting must be completed before i can touch it…lol im on a fishing expedition here, give me what you got ppl! 😉

  20. Did anyone notice that there’s a Mount Brown below Avalanche Lake, and when I looked at the small waterfall above it there’s what looks like the chest below the small falls coming from Mary Baker Lake

    • Yeah- it’s on Going to the Sun Road which is also a place that warm water halts in the h2o cycle as clouds. On the other side is looking glass hill road like end drawing nigh. It’s a really interesting area- look up wild goose island for a sweet story 😉

    • @Fres Judging by the scale in Google that chest/boulder is about 15ft across. Sure is trunk like though!

  21. I’m beginning to see the layers so many people are talking about. Now I get what faces have to do with everything. And I get the time. I get the relationships. Now I just need to put it all together with the seasons and the colors, and whatever other layers are there. It’s a puzzle about Who’s Who, in my opinion. Maybe thinking in riddles is useful. For example: My face has no teeth and sometimes looks like a can opener on an old Good Housekeeping Magazine. What could I be?

    • Mindy, you sure are an early bird today or you stayed up very late. I’ve been thinking about this all morning.

      “For example: My face has no teeth and sometimes looks like a can opener on an old Good Housekeeping Magazine. What could I be?”

      Do you have an answer to this or is it really just an example? Just wondering. If it doesn’t divulge any of your secrets of course.

    • I was with you until you got to season and colors… So tell us mindy, what could you be? 🙂 I have a couple different pictures in my mind. How vintage of a magazine are we talking? No offense intended.

      • Wiseone and rmannaa,
        I was up early today and every day to get the worm. Lol.
        If I gave the answer to the riddle, it would open up a whole new realm of layers FF has hinted at in TTOTC. In the chapter about First Grade, he mentions Miss Ford’s face reminding him of a can opener he had once seen on a cover of Good Housekeeping. So, I’d say the issue was somewhat vintage. 🙂
        He mentions how faces look a lot. Miss Ford’s face went through a lot of changes in one chapter. His dad’s did, too.
        And check out the postmark. It’s on a Monday, which I’m beginning to think is important. IMO.

        • In a can opener ad you would generally see a can opener opening a can. I took that to mean that Forrest” opened a can of worms “with his comment to Miss Ford.

          Old expression meaning he got himself in trouble with his mouth. 🙂

          • Re: “can of worms”, That was also one of my conclusions, but sometimes there are many, and figuring out if and where it fits is difficult.

          • If anyone has a desire to go thumbing through Good Housekeeping magazines while your relatives are trashing your house this holiday season, then you can do so here:

            http://hearth.library.cornell.edu/h/hearth/browse/title/6417403.html

            I looked through 1942-1943 editions….. the only can opener ads that appear in those issues are for “Edlund Jr.” can openers…… no accompanying pics of a sideways looking face however……..

            Some interesting articles though…….

          • Thank you Jason for the link. That really shows how much times change.
            I recently purchased a stack of civil war era newspapers . This was before photos were common, so you see the changes in attitude through the illustrations

            The link will be saved by many I am sure.
            Thanks!

        • Oops, I made a mistake. The chapter with Miss Ford looking like a can opener is Jump Starting the Learning Curve, which is postmarked Sunday. The chapter about First Grade is postmarked Monday.

          • And this is sort of like the can opener I picture.

            https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/41/c4/24/41c42492d19e306fb43a4c4d4f69a886.jpg

            Remember, Forrest wrote TTOTC when he was older, and there are subtle hints sprinkled through it. I don’t think he could remember which year the can opener she looked like was in Good Housekeeping–it could have been a later issue, and came to mind as he was writing the memoir.

            He may have never even seen the can opener on Good Housekeeping, but when writing the memoir, that’s what came to kind as he was trying to describe Miss Ford’s face.

            The question is, why would he use a can opener like this to describe Miss Ford’s face? Opening a can of worms is a good thought, but there are a couple other thoughts I think are good as well.

          • Speaking of Can openers-
            I still use the one that was issued to me in ’66. It’s a P-38…non-electric. I wore it around my neck for awhile. Now it lives in my wallet. I use it about once every five or so years. Last time I used it was on a can of peaches in the desert south of Moab. Ezmerelda and I were both stuck in the sand. Those peaches tasted goooooood!

            http://www.p-38.net/images/canopener.jpg

          • Nice one Dal, knew what it was the minute I seen it. Yep got mine in 72, it is a constant companion with my keys. 🙂

          • Ha……that’s funny Dal. Never met an old Marine that didn’t have a John Wayne with him.

            Last summer I was in Colorado working and stopped at a small gas/coffee/bait/waffle station. The old guy at the register had his P38 hanging around his neck. He saw me looking at it and said, “Where’s yours”? I grinned and reached in my vest and pulled out my P51. He gave me a humpf and said, “You must be one of those wussy Army Rangers.”

            I just chuckled and walked out. When a guy is right he’s right. I’ve got P38’s in every tackle/tool/glove box I own. But since I got old and lazy I use P51’s.

          • Goof-
            I’m pretty sure the only reason we got the P38 was because you guys got the new P51 and tossed all your old P38s into the dumpster and some enterprising squid came by and grabbed them all up and sold them to us and became a billionaire. Before we got the p38s we just shot the cans open. Maybe I have lead poisoning 🙂

    • How about the chest being in a tin can. I’ve often thought this was the case. Research how many times he uses the word can. When he was fired he didn’t understand ‘your canned’

  22. The post with Avalanche Lake really made me think. I don’t know yet if it’s a red herring. But the odd sentence structure in one of the sentences caught my eye. “…a few miles north and west of where…”

    Part of me wonders if he is giving out a few subtle hints because of all the comments regarding the vagueness of the poem, and so many people “giving up.”
    Then another part of me remembers that he doesn’t care if the treasure isn’t found for 1000 years.

    Maybe he’s feeling generous for Christmas and giving us what we want. 🙂
    Forrest, I could also be compelled to want a new Chevy Camaro. Lol. 🙂

    • “I can keep my secret where,” As for people giving up. Don’t be fooled into thinking that. They could be just keeping quiet . IMO

    • … what’s the take-away here? Did he walk six miles uphill both ways, was forest service rd 985 running up Beaver creek, not there back in the day? There’s horse trailers parked way up at the end of that gulley, that road could have cut his hike by more than half.
      Forrest has probably HAS fished every lake and stream & certainly has many more fish tales to share

  23. All righty folks, lets do some dissecting of what we know. Yeah I am about to get ur gears turning. Ok lets start with ” not far, but to far too walk. ” We know that Forrest stated that he walked back to his car with a smile on his face.
    He also said he did it in one afternoon.

    Now for the fun part. When he states not too far is he referring to the drive to the ” put in below the home of brown ” or from the put in place itself?
    Forrest also stated he made two trips. This prompts the question: How did he conceal the chest? This I can answer. Logically he took the chest in a backpack and walked to the hidey spot hid it and returned to his car for the remaining treasure. Now some may be thinking Enh? Why not the other way round?

    Well the way I see it is the chest is a repository. And as such it only makes sense to me that it follow a logical pattern. After all Forest has pointed out he likes things in a set order. So now why a backpack? Well it blends in with the surrounding area. Who would questing someone hiking with a backpack?

    Now I have my WWWH spot, a canyon down and a possible home of Brown.
    Ummmm ” No place for the meek” ……. Thinking

    Happy Trails

    • Chad,
      I noticed you said he walked back to the car with a smile on his face. I am unaware of any such statement (I would like to see it if you have it), but he did say the following:
      “After I hid the treasure I walked back to my car feeling very proud of myself and laughing out loud,” he said. “I asked, ‘Forrest, did you really do that?
      http://www.today.com/news/want-find-his-hidden-treasure-worth-millions-head-outdoors-1C8576285

      I believe he indicated the seeker would “walk right to it with a smile on their face” but I don’t have that reference – does anyone?

      Using a backpack? He said: “There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure.” – Mysteriouswritings by Jenny Kyle

      Thus as long as there are no human trails nearby, a backpack could be used only if the environment permits it, however the time period of one afternoon doesn’t mean he used the whole afternoon, for it could have taken 10 minutes or less in one afternoon and still qualify as “one afternoon”

      I always interpreted “not to far” as a distance for an 80 year old to walk, possibly an average person, since he said “but too far to walk”, thus he could concievably drive there but it would be measured relative to a walking distance. In his book “too far to walk”, that distance was defined to be at least 10 river miles. The upper limit is open to interpretation.

      Hope this helps

      • My bad. My memory is not running to well atm. Too many irons in the fire lol. Thank you for the correction.
        Yes, that is what I am getting at. Did he hide the chest while on vacation? And what state did he vacation in?
        Ummm food for thought.

      • Wolf,
        If I recall correctly, and no I don’t have the statement at hand, That he stated, when a searcher opened the chest they would smile. Although I’d be grinning so hard if I ‘found’ the chest I’d look like the joker from batman…even before I opened it. But I do believe there is more than one comment on if / when a searcher finds the chest.

        The line, ” Not Far, but too far to walk” as you know…IMO… is not a distance at all. Or at least a usable distance. In the physical sense, it separates hoB from canyon down, but may not be anywhere near the trove. For one reason, the entire 3rd stanza…just seem to be a lot going on there, that could be a good distance itself.

        I personally don’t think any knowledge distance is necessary, until your at the area of the blaze…Then distance comes into play. Just not from the line Too far to walk.

        IMO

        • I know we’ve beat this too far to walk thing up, for me, it’s 6 miles. From wwh to spot, just below the hob. imo of course.

    • No offense here Chad, But your dissecting didn’t get out of first gear. The double trip in one afternoon with the chest first and the trinkets second, has been on discussion for some time now. We [ the searcher ] could even put a thought to that the first trip could of been to prepare the hide spot in some manor and the second trip with the full chest itself. This would be logical to think the length of the distance traveled is a shorter distance in backpacking 42lbs. in one trip, in that scenario.

      Fenn statement was { paraphrasing } he made two trips from his car to the hide in an afternoon… which I believe it was in a Q&A.

      To think that he came from the “hoB” area or even drove from the area of “put in” is just speculation. For fenn to hide the chest… there is no reason to believe the same way we would follow the poem is the same way he actually took. To do so, IMO may off set the searchers way of thinking of how the poem may be read.

      Wherever the area of the chest, you can bet fenn knows it like the back of his hand and may not need to travel the same as a searcher might.

      • The official quote:

        “… I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.f” – Mysterious Writings Q&A

        I agree speculation to assume a walk from HofB.

      • I need to be careful how I say this. I thought he was asked a question on JK, that asked if the poem path to the treasure was the one that he physically took, and his response was that he didn’t know of any other way. Perhaps this is just my interpretation of what was said.

        I’ve often wondered if he took a short cut.

        • emment,

          Now that you mention it… I think I read that as well. So for the heck of it…lets go with it.

          Where the chest lays in wait, may not be near other area of the poem..such as home of Brown etc. At least in probability, But the only way to get to the “chest area” is one way in – one way out.

          I think fenn tries very hard not to mention any other part of the poem when he talks about the chest and visa versa.

          Nice catch… I believe your right.

        • This is what he stated:
          “I have a question for Mr. Fenn:
          When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area?”

          “Thank you Curtis
          The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.f”

          Note the missing “d” again.

          There may be no other way other than to follow the clues – I agree. But he doesn’t answer if there is a shortcut. i.e. I solve the clues and find the trove. I leave it there and go and purchase a backpack or suitable carrying apparatus. Can I now take an alternate route (now that I know where it is)? or must I follow the same path I used to find it.

          • I just hope that the No Human trail means I can use a quad…LOL

            The other thing is KNOWLEGE is eight letters. where’s the missing link?

            As far as the answer goes; Follow the clues in order… there is no other way… does not answer the question, which Path he went.

          • More on the distance walked:
            “…But I will say that I walked less than a few miles if that will help. I just looked “few” up and one definition is “scant.” Why do I sound like I’m talking in circles? f”

            Ok so a few is three or less but I am speculating it is considerably less than that if following the clues is contiguous and the clues take you right to it.

          • know lege= an awe inspiring person.(lege). maybe a reference to his brother? there is no other way to my lege(brother)?

      • My bad, sometimes I miss sometimes discussions here and there. Why I am not sure.

        I see the logic of that, however being near 60 I know lifting 50 lbs is no fun. Esp walking more than 50 feet with it. So I am figuring on two trips at around 500 ft from the area he parked at.

  24. Wolf & gang:
    …I wanna believe, in the worst way that all I have to do to succeed in my endeavor, is to find nine specific geographic locations and then pick up the TC. But how is that unlocking the clues? Why does he misspell so many words? Why all of the inconsistences? Was Bob Lynch a red herring, or just a warning to the wise. Who’s side does he route for, Indians or Cowboys? I love hearing his stories, but Kit Carson was only 5’5’” to everyone who read his exploits thought him a giant

    • This clearly shows how our perception of things can mislead us.
      By any chance do you have a list of the words he has misspelled? It may be interesting to ponder.

  25. theycallme9clues,
    You ask a very good question and I have studied this long and hard, What I have discovered is currently stored in 60,000 words describing how this quest can be straight forward with no games but very difficult to solve. I can’t even begin to sum it up but soon I hope to release what I have found.

    I will confirm your instinct is fine and there is a way to have 9 physical markers/directions that can be drawn on a map and there also exists a way to derive a key that is clever that will unlock at least one or two critical clues. Just think if you could have one clue solved which one would it be?

    The Wolf

    • how ’bout you wait ’til late summer, I need to take a trip or two in the spring

    • “Thank you Curtis
      The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.f”

      …is he talking about a *
      eight points on a map, when the 4 lines connect in the middle, you have your ‘title’ & 9th clue

    • Hi Wolf,
      Amazing. I have a 60,000 word notebook too. I agree that there will be a final answer , but I think it comes from what Forrest is hinting at with each chapter of the book , but I don’t think they answer the poems clues. I’ve posted where I believe you begin, starting at “Not far, but to far to walk” A-B, ABCDE, and so on. After that you can get the latitude and longitude.
      Thats where you begin….IMO of course. Then you follow the poem IN ORDER. You must have noticed every question/clue has three answers…(pi).
      I’m confident it is in New Mexico. I took 2 trips last year from Seattle , but New Mexico is a big state. The Rockies are huge. You could follow the poem in a thousand places in each state.
      Even after starting at the irrigation pipes that have a manufacturing stamp that looks just like a postmark, going down river , past Georgias R. Browns grave, and taking the blaze off the pavement (its a Y) That is one “Rocky Road” about a quarter mile to where you look down and across to see the waterfall. Perfect. Except April had heavy loads of water, and couldn’t get to the falls. But in July I did. I searched for 30 days.
      Amazingly beautiful.
      So you see, now is where the stories play out. The problem is, I have ,(I believe) several solved. Two dead biddies = Two sleeping bags .
      The picture of the 9 foot tiger skin. =Tigers kin OR It’s a “Cat on a Hot Tin Roof” , a movie featuring Gypsies singing “If I were a rich man”.
      Happy hunting !

  26. Wolf,

    Pretty tough to laugh and not be smiling, unless your faking it? It would be a little creepy. So I really don’t see the relevance of whether he was smiling or not. 🙂

    With regards to his response about whether he took the same path as described in the poem, …..his answer is <> left to interpretation. Of course the clues SHOULD be followed as outlined in the poem, because that is, I’m sure, probably the only way WE will be able to find it, …..but he didn’t answer whether or not HE took that same path. He could have very well just been speaking of only the searcher’s journey. For depending on how one puts the clues together, …..and myself, I have had many variations as I’m sure others have also, …..the whole poem can incorporate many miles throughout, to just a few, to the physical path of travel being only at the very end. And I’m sure there have been many other ides as well. Once again though, his response is short and to the point, but……….

    • “Pretty tough to laugh and not be smiling, unless your faking it? It would be a little creepy. ” Suzie????

      Speaking of “faking it and creepy” – what do you think of a guy who pretends to be a woman on the blogs and hides it from everyone? That is pretty creepy don’t think?

      Do you have any confessions you would like to share with the rest of us?

      • I can laugh and not smile… Just cuz I can, I don’t want ya to think I’m creepy…I am !… I just don’t want ya to think it.

      • Creepy is such a relative definition I mean my goodness some people are creeped out by their own shadow. Ooh it’s creepy about a little spider. Dear God grow up people.

      • Wolf,

        Well, doesn’t look like I’m hiding anything, does it. Must of had to ask for some help on that one. 🙂 All just an intellectual exercise in the psychology of sexes to me. It is very interesting!! I’m just having fun. It keeps me entertained. 🙂 …..are you really a Wolf? Besides, how many people do you truly know on these forums? Sometimes I think you are just a liiiiiiittle bit too wrapped up in all of this and it’s evident when someone questions you on something. But someone needs to once in a while. You seem to be quite full of yourself!! …..Lighten up pal. 🙂 Is not all of this a leap of faith? With no one having any true answers? …..on a blog in cyberspace? If anyone of us ever finds it, it probably only be because of ff’s help?? …..Or someone probably would have found it by now. Don’t you think? So until he is done having his fun, then in the meantime, WHY not have some fun ourselves?For isn’t this a race of endurance?

        And like I said before, …..does Mrs. Wolf know you are back at it again? I thought she cut you off from the chase? No.

        Besides, who knows, this may all be just a dream. And we can be anything we want to be in our dreams………. Can’t we?

        • Suzie, aka Nora Kelly, aka Project Why

          Yes you are hiding and purposely misrepresenting that you, a guy, are a girl.

          I am pretty confident that everyone realizes that I am not really a wolf. However my wolf senses sniffed out the sent of an man with ugly intentions.
          🙂

          Just remember over here you can’t delete or alter your ad hominem posts.

          Merry Christmas!

          • Wolf, Wolf, Wolf, …..Don’t try and make me look like the bad guy/girl here. 🙂 If they really were ad hominem I doubt they would let me post them. But….. it’s not too hard to pick up your scent, if you know what I mean? 🙂 Now use those wolf senses and go find that chest……….

            Merry Christmas as well !! Enjoy your ham.

          • LOL!! WOLF, how do you know it’s not a girl, who said she was a guy…but is really a girl??? 🙂

            You sure the old nose is working properly??? 🙂

            Merry Christmas to You!!!

          • Ok Folks,

            I can see where this is going (see too much of it on ChaseChat) and I do not care to debate what Mrs. Wolf thinks or whether FF had a smile or a laugh.

            I really do not want this to ruin anyone’s wonderful Christmas, so I am going to leave the forum and enjoy Christmas with my family.

            If anyone cares to leave me a message you may do so at TTOTC.com.

            Merry Christmas to all and may you all have a happy New Year!

            Take Care all and be kind to each other!

            The Wolf

    • Interesting thank you for sharing Ed. Did you notice the the guy who read the Poem said that the title is ” Where the Treasure Lies”??? Has anyone heard that before? I thought it did not have a title?

          • Spallies, I guess I cannot claim positive knowledge, because i know not of where my memory stored it! But I know I saw or heard it in a forrest interview because I wrote it down. Sorry, most info I can locate this I only have the poem title scribbled down.

          • Sorry, jdiggins……..I asked Forrest in an email long ago what the title of the poem was and he said, “I didn’t even think of that Ritt. I think it works as is. f .”

            There is no title….I suggested “North of Santa Fe” or “Fenn’s Rainbow” and got no response.

      • I remember researching this question of title about a year or so ago. I think what I found was that Forrest never gave the poem a title. One of the reporters titled it or possibly one of the bloggers. I am pretty sure that is correct. If you Google “There the treasure lies”, you will find the title used for the poem on some blogs.

    • @ Spallies i’ve seen this billionaire mistake before.

      Huffington post.
      Four years ago, Forrest Fenn, a Santa Fe bazllionaire, hid a treasure chest full of booty including priceless ancient artifacts, gold nuggets and precious jewels estimated at $3 million.

  27. @ charlie, know lege= an awe inspiring person.(lege). I like that… but I’m getting ‘lege’ as in ‘legend’. That takes me back to mythology.

    • He does say ” Skippy was kind of a god to me” He also looked up to him. when he says “there is no other way to my knowlege” makes me think he’s going somewhere that only he and his brother know of. Since his brother has passed, that might be his secret???… I don’t know, just running with it…He is from Temple, you may be onto something wise.” My lege” makes me think of Ceasar for some reason.

      • He says two people can keep a secret if one of them are dead. I believe the correct phrase is THREE if TWO are dead. As Skippy drowned, he could keep the secret of it being underwater. Say Davey Jones locker.

  28. IMO–The know lege thing can be interpreted several different ways:

    1) the awe inspiring person, who I think could refer to Marvin, since he both had knowledge as a principal and educator, and a lege (was awe-inspiring);

    2) Forrest said he was beginning to learn where the edges were. Or ledges, I would guess.

    3) it could be one of those misspellings you can’t go back and correct no matter how badly you want to. Think of the commercial where the football field painter worked all day and when he stood up to admire his work, he saw that he had painted not Chiefs, but Chefs. “Great Googly Moogly,” I think he said. Lol.

    • yup, no matter who it’s referring to, if anybody, only those two would know about it. Meaning it wouldn’t be a big clue, or hint, just fits, but doesn’t get you there. imo

    • Given the context of a misspelling in a statement like “imagination is more important than knowlege” it seems that the misspelling points to the point being made. I.e. ‘Its not important’. Kind of like a play on words, but with spelling?
      Also, as far as the can opener that looks like ms. Ford…check out the scrapbook with F’s piece of ‘artwork’ he calls ‘Ms. Ford’ then look at an old can opener from the side. Kinda like Mr. Smithers from The Simsons cartoon, eh? Maybe Forrest really just means what he says and she looks like an old can opener? I know a couple people that look like that. high cheekbones, long nose, small chin, a bit of an overbite with a narrow/almost pointy arch of the tooth line? I think the ‘can opener’ look might actually be a part of genetics kinda like some ppl. look like cherubs, or chipmunky or cross eyed even when their not…I dunno, I like to think he just means what he says and she looks like a can opener.

        • Jamie, I think you and Dal are right about the can opener, although he could’ve used a description of an electric can opener since he was describing something in the past in the present, if you know what I mean.

          He never said what year or even generation the Good Housekeeping can opener was from. It’s like me describing the sound of a scratch on a vinyl record as the sound of AOL dial up.

          But looking at the handmade Miss Ford, I think you guys are right on this. Just another time where my mind was thinking faster than my memory. Lol.

          • Hi , Mindy ..
            Sorry I didn’t reply in a timely action , but the cable guy was here replacing my lines. I just got back on… Check mail…
            🙂

    • Forrest, It’s not clear as to the title of your poem, or is there one?
      Is it “The Thrill Of the Chase”? In your books there is no title.
      Please reply. Thanks,Ritt.

      “I didn’t even think of that Ritt. I think it works as is. f .”

      • Thanks Ritt I suspected that was the case. Everyone needs a title. I think that site took some liberties just like the reporters saying buried.

        • You’re right, Ed……….Too many take too much liberty in putting words in Forrest’s mouth or misquoting him badly. It’s such a shame they just don’t take the time to get it right.

    • I asked Forrest what the title of the poem was. He told me he didn’t have one and that I could name it…

      Maybe what we need here is a poem naming contest… 🙂

    • Sorry!!! Not bantering at all I really read it that way… You can imagine my surprise when JD said that it was in reference to Spring!!!

      • All things considered I ask: Can we afford to discount someones thoughts just because we disagree?
        Personally I think everyone here has something worthy of consideration.

  29. How about this idea?
    I just re-read the poem, and (IMO) I now think that there are more than one blaze. There may be one at the treasure site, and one (or more) additional that mark the (“not a human”) trail that leads to the blaze.
    Geoff

    • I have dwelt on this aspect of the poem from time to time. My thoughts on this is, there is more than one blaze. The first one is the key to understanding to poem.
      And a second blaze is possibly signs along the path to the treasure maybe in the area of the chest itself.

  30. Please excuse this departure from the norm. I think this needs to be said though.
    I have notice a trend over the past year or so. Seems to me when we are having a brainstorming session along comes some Ummm…. none productive statements. Well consider this; now if you had just the poem and no one to bounce ideas off of what kinda of a chance would you really have of finding the chest? Not much of one imho. So when you all come in here and disrupt the exchange of ideas you loose too. So hey come on in and give us something else to laugh at, because what you all are doing is as clear as glass.

    • Chad…I hope you don’t think my earlier “ummm…” Statement was directed at you. It was to Tamara (you can read her post above yours) your post came in between while I was typing. If you read her quote above, mine below will make more sense. She was quite upset with me..I think she thinks I’m the one that originally compared ms. Ford to a can opener. She is quite defensive and hostile/aggressive/rude over any and all can opener comments. Lol. I was just explaining where they came from.

      • Jamie please note I did not mention any names. I am merely attempting to point out how fruitless it is that we allow ourselves to be drawn into off topic conversations. One of the reasons I haunt this site is because for the most part
        people here seem to be more focused. Exhibiting a certain quality of mind and spirit. Some of the other sites I have dropped by are either dead, a place for flamers or just plain silly. I may be stuck in my armchair but by no means does it mean I stop thinking. As I stated earlier I have a pretty solid wwwh, a canyon down, and the home of brown. Now I am trying to ferret out some parts of the rest.

        When I go for the chest it will be a one shot thing, bingo or bust. So please do not take anything I say personally, it is not meant as an attack it’s only me stating my observations. Personally I really do not care who finds the chest. For me it is the thrill of the chase, reading about others adventures and seeing the wonderful photos they provide. See Life has always dealt me a handful of jokers with nothing to make a hand with. All good though, it taught me to think on my feet.

        To all: Have a safe and happy holiday season. May you all find a treasures throughout the new year.

        Thank you Forrest and Dal. one of the treasures i have found is just knowing there are people out there with some real interesting lives.

  31. Back to the concept of time and faces.

    If Forrest is just past midnight, what time is Skippy? What time is Mr. William Marvin Fenn, Principal? What time is Peggy?
    What time is Moses?

    If you read about the symbolism of time, you will learn a lot about the days of the week, the months, the seasons, and even the hours on a clock. I think it is very revealing, especially if you go back to the TTOTC after you read about the aspects and symbolism of time.

    I’ll give you one example of my idea of a layer in the poem. In my opinion right now, Skippy represents “heavy loads and water high.” So, where does that equate in the seasons? Well, April Showers Bring May Flowers. The runoff from mountain snow melting can also create heavy loads and water high. And we are told that Skippy was taken in life’s greatest blossom, so that would possibly equate Skippy with Spring, maybe May, because the postmark on My Brother Being Skippy is May (if I remember right) Or it could equate him with winter, because snow can also be heavy loads and water high.

    So, what day in the spring is symbolized by Skippy? I haven’t looked yet, but I am theorizing that the Skippy-laden chapters in TTOTC aren’t postmarked on a Monday. I wonder what day they are postmarked on? (I’m going to check in a couple minutes, lol) I’ll bet they aren’t postmarked on the two Mondays in the book.

    I do think the postmarks are important. Why are there five chapters (excluding preface and epilogue) without postmarks? Why does one chapter have the postmark on the right page?

    And what, if anything, does this have to do with the poem? Well, if you research time and all it’s aspects and how it relates to seasons and colors and even mythology, you see the poem in a certain “light.”

    All IMO, which is subject to change by the end of the day. 🙂

    • Hola Mindy

      Postmark on the right IMO tells us the chest is to the right of the blaze. Midnight, well guess where those hands are at midnight and 6 O’ clock. You guessed it, in the middle.

      Merry Christmas!

    • Time is also used in 3d aspects also . What Im say is , As the clock spins the 3d animation moves, like to the heart beat of a drum of a computer. And all is linked to Time.
      But as far as What day and or season , that’s a very interesting View … And very creative as a approach to this solve.
      Good stuff Miss , Mindy

  32. Mindy, The postmarks were heavily discussed on the blogs a while back and I remember that there were some interesting comments about them. They are probably in the archived discussions somewhere. It might be worthwhile to try to find them.

    IMO, you are correct about time being relevant and important. The whole theme of the book, the poem, and the chase is about time and timelessness. There are certain places where time and timelessness intersect. One is in graveyards where we in our time communicate with the dead who exist in timelessness ( eternity). Another is gazing at the stars where we are looking (in the present) at light that was sent millions of years ago. We are looking across time. Look at some of the illustrations in the book that show that. Also read the last paragraph in the book and remember in the first chapter, he threw Time in the trash.

    • Jack,
      I’ll see if I can find the comments/discussions you mentioned.
      I’m interested to see what others have found.
      I haven’t got that far yet, but I think some important info might be found if you took each chapter of the book and looked for themes, then matched them up with the postmark.
      For example, in chapters where Peggy was the focus, are there references to certain times of the day or certain days of the week? Or are there certain words found in the poem that are used in chapters that Peggy is mentioned?

      • …I had never heard of a ‘Book of Days’ before, so hoping it might coincide with the postmarks I kept searching ’til I found a book of days posted online. Sort of similar to a farmers almanac

          • My mind is a little foggy now, temp went from the 20 up to 45 today. Migraine city for me. Vaguely I seem to recall something about a book of days. How good is your google foo? Whaaa Haaa chop chop

    • It is interesting about the relationship to time in the poem. Even as we read it, the 1st stanza seems to be in past tense. stanzas 3,4,5 seem to be in present tense, stanza 5 & 6 can seem to be present as well. At least reading the poem for the first time.

      The question is, If the first stanza is past tense, would it not continue through stanzas 2, 3, and 4 as well? Is it more likely the place to “begin” The Searchers journey is also in the past? Unless of course one believes the first stanza is nothing more than an intro. and does not contain a clue.

      Most believe that the only meaning to the line ” …Not far, but too far to walk…” Is something to do with distance a searcher must actually Walk. Or is it a continuation of the past tense of stanza 1? if so, then by simple reasoning, the 3rd stanza would also be…
      ” From there…” past tense.

      Now the question that comes to mind… IF these descriptions of WWW, Canyon, hoB etc. are places, would they not be in the past as well?

      • Well here is an idea i have not seen posted and maybe i shouldnt but i wanted to see what other searchers think, as far as the sentence ” not far but too far to walk” goes i believe that it could state a distance of 26.2 miles or 42 km the same as a marathon it isnt far but it is a running not a walking event.
        Merry Christmas fellow searchers

      • Considering this…. Seeing the post marks in TTOTC and considering your observations I can only agree that time plays a role in the chase, how so I have not had time to pursue yet.

      • Interesting. How about the places are based in the past. are present today, and will be there in the future. ?
        I base the on the fact Forrest wanted the chest to be out there for at least 100 years or more. So geological formations may come into play here.

      • I definitely think that his use of tenses in the poem is a clue (or hint) to time (past, present, and future) and it is related to the theme of the book which is exploring the intersections of time and timelessness.

        Some random thoughts: He seems to like to speak and answer questions in metaphors. He said at the bookstore event related to his new book, that the title, “Too far to Walk” was a metaphor for the things he was not able to accomplish. In other words, in his time. When he said not to dig up outhouses because the treasure is not associated with any structure, maybe that was a metaphor? His use of the word “associated” is interesting. He didn’t say “in”, “under”, “near” any structure. Time is a structure measured by clocks and calendars and is either past, present, or future. The structure of time is represented in the structure of the poem by past, present, and future tenses. The treasure (or the place it is hidden) is not associated with with any structure. It is associated with timelessness.

        • That is why TIME was thrown in the trash in the very first chapter of the book. Another metaphor.

        • Ummmm yes, the poem has a beginning, ( past ) a present ( the chase ) and an end. ( recovery of the chest )

        • Jack,
          Using time from the poem, “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,” Sounds past tense. You have, been , found seem it indicate as such. Yet in the next line of that sentence ” Look quickly down your quest to cease” seem to be more present tense. Why the use of you’ve instead of your and found vs. find?

          There appears to be an attempt to combined past to present in this sentence. or could it be that If you ‘Have’ been wise in your reading and found, in reading of the 1st 3 stanzas, a searcher has seen the blaze in the poem and now continues from That [found] specific location to finish the quest?

          Another words… is the first 3 stanzas a physical journey to follow or a written journey to understand?

          Not unlike Forrest and Donnie’s attempt to find the L&C trail…They did not physically start on the Mississippi, but went in a direction of where they wanted to meet up with that trail [ they found ] by knowing of it’s existence, from that time period.

          • Seeker, here is my view on that. I believe the solution will have a certain elegance to it where everything merges together metaphorically and symbolically into a unified whole. So I think he mixes tenses to represent time in all it’s forms, past present and future. That is one level.

            Specifically, found the blaze indicates you don’t need to see the blaze, you just need to be wise and find it before you go. I have posted before that I believe the blaze is the sun and it’s position on a particular time and day. It will cast a shadow that you will also know if you have found the blaze. So when you get there, look quickly down and follow the shadow that you know would be there on that time and date. What better blaze is there to symbolically represent both time and timelessness than the sun? It is also a blaze that will endure for thousands of years.

          • I’ll agree to your representation of the shadow workings. The question now falls to… there should be a second blaze [ marker ] on the ground to image a shadow. Is that marker only present to the searcher in the field or is it also present in the poem as well?

            For myself, if one doesn’t understand what to look for on site… from the poem…that searcher could walk right past the exact spot where the shadow makes itself known. So that ‘marker’ must also stand the test of time as well.

            Now the other question may be, is the marker fenn made / altered or natural?

          • I agree that there has to be a structure or gnomon, a word from the Greek word for to know, that casts the shadow. It could be a natural gnomon such as a rock formation or it could be man made. Either way you are correct that it would have to be something enduring. That rules out trees or buildings. But it could be something man made that was erected with the idea of being there forever. Something like Stonehenge or some of the Native American solar markers.

            Here is another idea related to time I am exploring:

            The trail in the poem has a clear beginning, middle, and end; stanzas 2, 3, and 4. A day also has a clear beginning, middle, and end. Sunrise, noon, and sunset. What if the poem describes (maybe in stanzas 1,5,6) a specific location for you to go to and once you go there, the shadow points out the trail for you. At sunrise, it points to where warm waters halt, at noon it points to no place for the meek, and at sunset, it points to the place to take the chest. He did say to take a sandwich and a flashlight!

          • Seattle,

            You may have misunderstood the import of my comment “Semantic Space”. I do not subscribe to any solution that a normal 5th grader would be able to solve.

            The clue that you mention may be meant for you in a sense because each step taken away from a literal reading of the poem seems to bring an abundance of complexity and possibilities. I find a few steps is more than my mind can handle.

            Taking the words in the poem and giving alternative meanings might be one step away for me. Building on to that another layer of assumption would multiply my errors and/or possibilities. Too much for me to figure out with one computer and a short term working memory deficit.

            Semantic Spaces have many uses and ever ending complexities. But they are not a part of my attempted solves.

    • Jack, When I searched on the Rio Tusas just North of Las Tablas (the golden frog) New Mexico , I came across irrigation pipes with a manufacturing logo that looked just like the Post marks. IMO the warm water heats. Forrest never said it cools, only halts. The trouble is, “POST” means END…such as the POST GAME SHOW ,like after a SEAHAWKS victory. .Anyway, so many meanings and clues have multiple right answers, mostly three, (pi). You could see it as a “post mark”, a post with marks on it. I found these too, “identical to what looks like a gate on the chest. The marks are from barbed wire. .
      Here’s one……The Post mark in the book stamped COLLEGE STATION.
      Backwards…NO IT AT (s) EGEL LOC (Col.) No its at Eagle Col.
      Remember Forrest has no rules on spelling and will make up a word if describes something obvious.

  33. For all searchers on Christmas Day the movie called Wild is coming out.
    It’s about a girl who hikes alone 1100 miles. It may be pretty interesting I want to see it 🙂

  34. I walk many avenues searching off the wall out of the box ideas. Dead ends, forks in the road (Y’s) , and I even went down a “DO NOT ENTER” street just the other day. There are certain comments Forrest has made that just stick. He points out he will change words like butterfly and flutterby. I think he does this in the poem . Esp ecially using A.K. (Also Known) ….I’VE DONE IT (re)TIRED, AND NOW I’M WE a.k. WE= General PUBLIC. The one thing Forrest keeps saying. YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHERE TO BEGIN…
    N o t f a r , b u t t o f a r t o w a l k
    A (B) A B C D (E)

    P U T I N B E L O W T H E H O M E O F B R O W N
    A B C D E F (G)

    F R O M T H E R E I T ‘ S N O P L A C E F O R T H E M E E K
    A B C D E F G H (I)

    T H E E N D I S D R A W I N G E V E R N I G H ; T H E R E ‘ L L
    A B C D E F G H

    B E N O P A D D L E U P Y O U R C R E E K
    I J K L M (N)

    BEGIN

    I STILL BELIEVE THIS IS WHERE YOU BEGIN.
    NOW…..Count the words in “JUST HEAVY LOADS AND WATER HIGH” = 6
    Count the words in the next stanza:
    It = 30 + 6 = 36
    next stanza:
    =32
    next stanza:
    =29
    These are your latitude numbers. 36 x 32 x 29

    If you want the longitude, count the LETTERS starting at “FROM THERE….. down to “WATER HIGH”. = 106 .
    you do need to count the semi colon and count words like it’s as “it is”

    Now that you have a location to start, which would be Las Tablas, New Mexico, you can begin at WWWH, FOLLOWING THE POEM .

    Here’s why I think here….1) THE LONG. AND. LAT.
    2) Google, Las Tablas golden frog “mystery of the”
    3) Tablas means table or plank
    Look at every picture of the chest. Its on a wooden plank table, and the golden frog is there too.
    Merry Christmas

    • I was thinking along the same lines, had a word / letter count table made and life tossed me a few curves. Hope to get back to it soon.

      • Nice. I must have Semantic Aphasia. Awesome ONE LITTLE COLLIE(G) ! Nice to see someone else seeing things in that light.
        If uv’ been wise..=Ultra Violet= Black Light
        Bring a flashlight.
        Could the blaze only be seen with UV ?

  35. OFF TOPIC:

    I have two tickets to the River of Lights here in ABQ, for tonight, but I can’t use them.

    Would anyone like them – for free? They were $12 a piece, and they have to be used tonight.

    Email me nothing2good@hotmail.com.

  36. Here’s a question… Why would Forrest spell “Knowledge” correctly on (the bell) in TTOTC but not on his (jars) ???

      • I too believe the Dragon Fly has a place.
        FROGS, DRAGONFLIES. Both go “fly fishing”.
        Both live where the waters slow and mellow out….Marsh Mellow.
        Did anyone notice Forrest also misspelled “BABY RUTH” candy bar as a “BABE RUTH”?
        I’ve pondered the answer could have something to do with a candy bar. The “BLAZE” that I believe is the blaze is a “ROCKY ROAD” . A ” CUP O’ GOLD” candy bar has a marshmallow center.
        Again, so many answers lead to a camping trip.
        Two old dead biddies = Two old sleeping bags
        Firestones (tires) = Camp FIRE STONES
        I’m getting off track but I hope this helps.

      • Marvel gaze is the part where dragonfly eyes come in handy. A Dragonfly can see around (periphal vision) also perspective (isometric view) maybe this is why everybody just walks right by the spot. They the searchers who walked by didn’t realize how specific marvel gaze is.

      • Hi Ed, Cool video on the Dragonfly… Your second link to Veronica doesn’t seem to be working? I like your avatar!!! Makes me want to grill some burgers…:)

        • You’ll have to copy and paste that one Spallies. The reason I posted that picture is because the poem says “marvel gaze”. Dragonfly is a marvel comic character with special gazing powers plus we know Forrest puts Dragonflies on bronze jars.

    • Ed, great clip. The insect kingdom is amazing to me – and dragonflies are a favorite. I helped both of my sons collect 100 insects and bugs for a 9th grade biology project. Our favorite specimen was a green and brown camouflage Odonata. Even the wings were classic army camo. Their eye sight and maneuverabity make them quite difficult to catch – if you’re a frog.

    • Mark J, thanks for sharing this site and clip. I spent many summers with my Uncle at some of locations shown.

    • Yes..America the Beautiful ..I watched the Montana episode about 2 weeks ago and they had talked about Louis and Clark and all their adventures…very informative..so much to say here. You will have to watch it yourself…Love Smithsonian.

  37. –TOTALLY OFF TOPIC–

    I would like to wish Dal, Fenn and everyone out there a very Merry Christmas. Thank you Dal for all the time and effort you put into this blog. Thank you Fenn for sharing your life and memories with us while showing us the thrill of the chase.

    But most of all thank all of you out there for sharing your time and stories with us.

    In my opinion 🙂 Fenn is showing us the true treasures of life; not a chest of gold or a work of art by one of the masters; but the snapshots in time of friends and loved ones that have touched our lives and whose lives we have touched. Let’s not forget the true treasures in life and the impact we have on them.

    Merry Christmas Everyone

    • Amen, Goofy.

      Merry Christmas to you and all y’all out there.
      The Bright and Morning shines in full blossom this night of nights.
      Tomorrow we celebrate the arrival of Truth and Peace.

      For those of you sitting alone tonight, I’m with you, if only in my mind…

    • Amen, Goofy. Merry Christmas Forrest, Dal, Goofy and Everyone. I’m afraid to start listing names for fear I’ll forget someone. You are all very dear to me. Thanks for being so friendly. That’s one of the greatest gifts ever…friendship. Thank you. Merry Christmas!

  38. Thank you Goofy for your heartfelt Christmas greeting! You, Forrest, and Dal are counted among those who have touched my life this year. Blessings to you all.

  39. My Christmas wish is that your ears be filled with the laughter from those you hold dear. Merry Christmas!

  40. Merry Christmas everyone, May your holidays be filled with Peace, joy and happiness. May all of you be blessed with good things throughout the new year.

  41. What’s it take to beat this guy an Albert Einstein or a great big imagination. I’m looking at Eric Sloane paintings of snow covered barns. I wonder if the paintings aren’t aren’t important. The dead bleeding dog on the bridge was a lesson learned in art. How about a dog near art. I’m thoroughly enjoying the chase and all the new things I’m learning. Well, Merry Christmas everyone got Perry Como holiday hits blazing from the Sonos.

    • If I may EEC…I would propose that it takes more imagination than the smarts of an Einstein…No amount of outside reference or field of study will produce more useable info than the nine clues contained within the poem…

      On the inside flyleaf of the TTOTC dust jacket is a statement, to wit: ‘All that will be needed is the poem, some resolve, a little imagination…’

      I hold firmly to the idea that ‘All the information you need to locate the treasure is in the poem’….

      He also stated in TFTW, ‘I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand but sure for the one who did.’…I understand this to mean one can solve the poem for the location BEFORE venturing out searching…

      It is very easy to over complicate the process of finding a solution…

      Good luck and good hunting…

      samsmith

      • He also states that it might be easier for a child to find it than an adult and “don’t ask me to explain that last statement” – I quoted here, but I’m going from memory, so someone fact check if they care to. This was in a video I believe after a book signing.

  42. Merry Christmas everyone! I would like to write about the nine clues. I t is my opinion that all the clues mean the same thing. Yes, they are physical places on a map, but once you get to WWWH all the clues become the same thing. That is why it is so important to find WWWH. It is my opinion that the location we have to go to with confidence is in the poem. In my opinion all clues take you to a favorite place of Forrest’s, but not necessarily where the treasure is. RC

    • RC,

      I do not agree that the nine clues all mean the same thing…Each clue has it’s own meaning and importance; and they don’t all become the same thing, EXCEPT in a single instance, they are all instructional in nature…IMO

      I agree with the statement…”It is my opinion that the location we have to go to in confidence is in the poem.”…I have this opinion also…

      He said that in the poem were nine clues which, if followed precisely, would lead you to the end of his rainbow and the treasure…I believe him…

      The location is in the poem, we just have to find it…He said it was difficult but not impossible…I think this is VERY true….

      samsmith

  43. The King of kings arrived in the most humble of circumstances.

    Luke Chapter 2:

    “6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.

    7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

    8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

    9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.

    10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

    11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

    12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

    13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

    14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.”

    PEACE! What a beautiful thought. Merry Christmas!

  44. merry Christmas every one after this is new years – stay safe and remember if you drink don’t drive – and if you drive don’t drink

  45. Well said Goofy, it’s been one heck of a run with the Thrill. It all started for me when my husband told us about the interview on tv with Forrest Fenn. I love all the insights on here. I have been up late, started early in the am. and have thought and thought about where the treasure may be. In the midst of everything, I did realize that I have life’s treasure with my family and friends. Now, it has become a family affair as we strike out for parts known and unknown. Bravo! I would not have missed this for anything. Blessed Holiday season yall!!!

  46. By now I am sure all here realize that this chase is akin to a jack rabbit with a coyote hot on his tail…;)

  47. Can someone with a limited knowlege of the rocky mountains find the chest? What i mean by that is, can i solve the poem at home, find a spot on a map to start, and go about it like that? Is local knowlege of the mountains a big advantage?….Ive been watching the show, The curse of oak island, and sometimes i wonder if forrest has ever thought of, or what he thinks about treasures like that? I would love to hear his thoughts on a subject like this.

    • Well Forrest said this when asked if any knowledge of U.S. History is needed….

      No Steve R,
      The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help. f

      —- on that I would say google maps or google earth would help, but its mostly figured out within the poem. I think Forrest even said a good map might help or something to that effect.

      • It still surprises me that this late in the game people have not looked up the word geography. Everyone has looked up all the words in the poem but it seems few has looked up this word.
        Everything on the plant is under geography. People, Land, cities, history, Language. Everything falls under that word.

        http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography

  48. 7am and I’m reading the blogs, yup, I really need something better to do… I need coffee

    • Do worry, near. It’s 6:35am here in New Mexico and you can guess what I’ve been doing for the past half hour! You have me knowing that I’m normal now!

  49. Does anybody know if Forrest has said if wwwh is actually mentioned in his TO TV book? Does anybody know? RC

  50. Has anybody searched in the Pecos Wilderness where the X marks the spot in the map, on the book,on the moutains? RC.

    • RC-
      Many folks have searched the Pecos area driven by the map you are referring to and for other reasons. It’s a pretty popular search area.

    • personally I thought about that and it just looked to simple.
      It fails the questions: Where is wwwh, hob and canyon down test.

  51. In bear canyon by red river there’s a trail blaze on the south hill as well as as some logs in the shape of the bear hide in forests picture halfway up the hill on the other side might be nothing but I think Its worth a try

  52. I wonder if we can guess the general area, or even the specific area where the treasure is without deciphering the poem.Any thought? RC

    • Finally! Yes you can. HOWEVER…. 2 things immediately spring to the defense of critics….

      1. The odds that the general or specific area that you guess, will actually be right, are astounding!

      2. You’ll never know if you are right, despite the infinitely uncountable odds, due to Forrest not telling you the answer.

      But yes you can guess 😀

      • IMO,
        There is no guess work involved at all…f’s statement about following the clues precisely leaves no room for any guessing if one wants to be successful. Again, this is only my opinion and I am firm on that one…

    • From f:

      Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues. Although others were at the starting point I think their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem.

      How is it that others were at the starting point and were oblivious to its connection with the poem? To me, guessing is pointless considering people can’t even figure it out when they are standing there at the place; either you understand it or you don’t. I suppose this is the part where figuring out what the first clue means instead of applying a face value concept presented by the poem comes into play. What else might it be?

      • Not sure if this has already been mentioned in the past, but ‘searchers’ he’s referred to could be f’s grandkids or other family members who walked right past it w/out realizing. He has said no one else living knows the location and his family is welcome to search. This detail imo could alter correct line of reasoning regarding fs comments on Jenny’s site for hob, close proximaty, people will be surprised, etc.

        • Its not possible to guess. I know this because I have figured out all the clues. Some of the trek I was able to get my path due to some words in the book. It all makes sense though when you complete the poem.

        • Hi 42

          Still catching up. These are some interesting comments you have made regarding no one else living knows the location…

          I would like to see that written quote from Mr. Fenn. As you know, Mr. Fenn is quite the trickster. For me, if I read the poem a certain way, I can see where it identifies at least a few additional folks that were with him when he hid the treasure. How many…still working on it. This does not mean I am right, just another way to look at it. If I am right, I think I may know a bit more about the who,what,when,where,why, how pieces to the puzzle and if he was alone that would be impressive! Kind of like hiding it under a large rock that requires more than one person to move. Now I am on my third time thru…Gosh I hope I do not need to get to nine. My brain is having trouble as it is.

          For me, unless I see it in the Cheat Sheet then every possibility is on the table. Using your words, how about this:

          No one Else living knows the location… Maybe he was referring to that cow he passed by on the way.

          • Wind, Thanks for sound logic. My guess is his attorney and a trustee or representative have access to docs disclosing location for obvious reasons. I’m assuming F spoke true when he said publicly he didn’t want anyone in his family to know – for safety concerns. Beyond that I can think of 4 possible friends if F’s he mentioned that could have known but are gone now.

      • Thank you Forrest for clarifying things somewhat.
        Learning to look beyond the obvious is sometimes a little difficult. Never the less it can be done. 😉

    • Sure you could guess it. Theoretically, someone who likes the same places or hobbies as f would get closer than a puzzle solver in my opinion. But confirmation will come by solving the poem to the right address, so to speak; and by understanding f’s stories and visuals in his memoirs.

    • That ideal is akin to taking a handful of darts and throwing that at a map of the four states. A one in may a billion chance of hitting the correct spot.

      • Ok here is your general area: Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, And New Mexico.
        Get out the darts and maps…

        • actually, the warm waters halt website has given a general location answer. No need for darts…

  53. In my opinion, you can guess all you want about where the location is and make it fit…the problem lies in where to go in the first place.

  54. Correction, you can make some of the poem fit… Example, you can find a hot springs = warm water, a canyon, brown could be dirt, it is home all kinds of critters, etc.

  55. Upon catching up on the blogs, I see many people’s Christmas postings and the word “peace” many times. I seem to recall Forrest stating something about the treasure being hid in a place of peace. Does anyone know/remember this reference/statement & could point me to it?

    • Clinger, I don’t have that reference, but do remember Forrest mentioning a ‘place of peace’ perhaps in an interview. which reminds me of Princess Diana’s secluded island – remote yet still near enough that other people can visit at a respectable distance and Forrest can rest in a place of reflective beauty in his beloved mountains or a forested fen type setting. What do you think?

      • lia,

        Yes, I do think it was in an interview, but I fail to recall when/where. I’m sure someone documented it. Anyone? Anyone? Buehler?

        I’m not sure what I think…it hurts when I try. 🙂 I do like your description & I believe it to be sound reasoning, although I’m not sure if he took into consideration the ability for people(relatives) to visit after he is gone. (I’m not exactly sure you were saying that anyway) I believe the spot is just one he personally likes, for his own reasons, someplace he found earlier in his life and just loved being there.

          • Jamie,

            Thanks for the link. I haven’t been to Toby’s site for a while & didn’t realize that was there. Maybe that’s where the “place of” got added in my head.

            II still seem to recall him answering a direct question from the audience about the chest’s location & his response was something that referenced “peace” or “peaceful”??? I could be (and often am) wrong.

    • I’ve always taken that part of the poem to mean leave peacefully. The antonym of peace would be war. I think he’s telling us take the chest and go quietly don’t make the alligator mad till you cross the river, which leads me to another thought…he probably hid it in a place where searchers aren’t supposed to go.

      • Personally I am of the line of thought Forrest stated to go in peace due to ” you never can tell who might not be so Umm law abiding in the general area. After all you may be out in no mans land. And what happens in the wild may go unnoticed for weeks….. Just sayin

        • Good point! I want nothing to do with the Feds. IF a person knew exactly where to find the treasure box. Why couldn’t it be done in two feet of snow? There are people who are very active in cold weather, snowshoeing, skiing etc. I suppose you’d need the exact coordinates.

          • Well Ed, if the treasure is under the front steps of a cozy brown log secluded cabin in the woods then you could shift into 4 wheel drive and drive up to the home of brown; but suppose it’s over the river and thru the woods a ways from the cabin, without a trail. I still envision a warm southern exposed rock with an arched alcove looking out onto a lake or forested fen.

          • I have thought before about the possibility a lake or waterfall might actually need to be frozen to get to certain spots or cross to a specific area which may require it be done in winter, or even as just the ‘off season’ sans rangers 😉

          • Ed,

            My latest thinking on it suggests that extracting the treasure requires more than just knowing where it is. Much more. Kinda like having a tooth extraction. My tombstone will read:

            Well, at least I don’t have to go to the dentist anymore.

  56. Hmm, I wonder who is Hot, Cold or Warm in this search for the chest. We know a girl has been close or was it a man. 🙂

    • Windsurfer – great laugh!

      My dentist has already offered to pay for my chiselled amalgamate epitaph which will read “she was crowned queen 30 times royally”

      • 42, you should catch up with Mindy…she has beautiful teeth and was crowned after that whole basketball episode which I found to be unbelievable. I bet Mindy could recommend a good technique for camouflaging crowns…she is a queen in my book. My heart melts for a beautiful smile…that why I always like MaryAnn. Nothing against Ginger, she was beautiful as well. So, maroon me on that island anytime! 42 and Mindy=MaryAnn and Ginger. Texas and Florida…land of the Oranges.

        • Lol, Wind. Yep, I am the queen of front teeth crowns. In fact, it is about time to get them replaced. And too funny about MaryAnn and Ginger–I am ALWAYS told I remind people of Ginger, but being a tomboy, I always identified with MaryAnn. But even more than MaryAnn, Pippi Longstocking. 🙂

        • And Wind, the basketball story is true. The ball that smashed my face is imprinted in my memory as though it had left it’s bruising mark on my brain. 🙂

        • Wind, Gilligan would drive me to drink with the Howells in one day!
          But I do have a $42,424 smile 😀

  57. Jamie Jones, I would say with certainty given Forrest’s many statements about it not being a dangerous place that you don’t need to cross a frozen lake – too dangerous and unpredictable.

    • You think? Many lakes are open to ice fishing, and some are even open to the public and turned into ice skating rinks for kids- and wasn’t there reference to somebody testing the ice in ttotc to prove safety also? Or maybe I’m mixing up my books. Either way, I wouldn’t think that all lakes are as dangerous as one might think.

      • Well you know Jamie I’m not sure because I haven’t got the treasure. Your effort will be worth the cold. Some people say it means the trip has to be done in the winter. I don’t believe that but who am I to talk. I just got done dropping a rope over a 100ft cliff and harnessed myself in and climbed up to a cave in the middle of a steep rock area. I swear to this day it was a perfect place to put the treasure. This cave was filled with sand and it required bravery to get up into.

        • Wow Ed ! I can not see Forrest doing that… just doesn’t fit IMO. But, what do I know. Nada for me too…

        • Remember Forrest said he was 79 or 80 when he hid the chest…. think he would hang from a rope of the side of a cliff……IMO to extreme and special tools would be needed to do that……. sound like fun though 🙂 good luck to ya

  58. My opinion I think going in the spring or summer is great because
    There will still be some Cold in those mountains 🙂

    • Anxiety says now is the time. But, logically, forrest doesn’t like the cold (tea with olga) and even with four layers of clothing, 25 degrees is practically unbearable. I do believe spring and fall are best for temps. Summer is fine, but you have to pack a lot of water and it’s heavy loads!

  59. It’s funny how us people are:

    When it’s freezing out we hate the cold. In the summertime when it’s scorching hot we can’t take it

    Fall and spring we say if only it could stay like this year round 🙂

    • 🙂 yup!
      When it’s raining we want the sun, and once it shines we cry for rain. Fickle we are.

  60. I’ve tried to find this answer, but so far, no luck. Does the search area on the map include the very faintly highlighted portions within the states Forrest has included, or only the more brightly highlighted areas?
    I know Bandelier is considered a search area, but if I recall, it was not one of the more brightly highlighted spots (I don’t have the map near right now–actually, I think one of the kids accidentally “misplaced” it in the trash–ugh!”

    • I have wondered & asked about that as well as I had a nice spot picked out that was in the faded edges. I don’t believe there has ever been a solid consensus on it.

      II know Forrest has mentioned something about finding the boundaries, or pushing the edges, or something similar to that. I always considered that phrase when I wanted to justify my spot, but I think I was just forcing things to fit my agenda at the time.

      Also, look back in the book again for the map. I thought I had lost mine as well, but it turns out it had just been pretty sticky to the pages in the book and it was hidden in plain sight.

      Clinger

  61. Been reading through some of the latest comments and thoughts have popped in my head as to…why do we see a single word such as halt and try to understand the rest of the sentence working around that word? or even a single line in part of a sentence or a stanza.

    What does straightforwards mean to the Author of a poem?

    A poem is all about interpretation. Yes we need to know what word definition is and yes we need to know the context of the word in the poem, but is it, we have broken down those words and phrase into so many pieces that we are missing the overall interpretation of the of the poem itself?

    4 years running and still we part out the poem. And what I have gathered is; most use the poem as a step by step direction. Most use a set of nine lines for nine clues. Are we missing the true “clues”? by using what seems to be obvious and simple lines in the poem ‘just’ to follow.

    Where does imagination come into play, if it is so simple as to follow what appears to be direction.

    • That is correct. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. We. Red to see the big picture first.

  62. new solve….all IMO

    1-Begin it wwwh= Hebgen lake at firehole ranch..in the summer when the lakes warm
    2-take it in the canyon down= follow the canyon along watkins creek
    3-not far but to far to walk, below HoB= put it below lower coffin creek *I swapped the capital B with an A, looked up arown, means box or coffin in the Old Testament*
    4-no place for the meek=its in the middle of no where, where wild animals are all over
    5-no paddle up your creek= stop where you are, do travel along the river anymore
    6-just heavy loads and water high= there is another lake called High Coffin lake just around the corner, thats water high, and heavy loads are the tall trees around there
    7-find the blaze, look quickly down= the blaze is a large rock with a hole in the back of it where the chest is, a hiding place that a child would find
    8-worth the cold= i think F thought that someone would figure it out during the winter while studying it and have to wait out the cold winter to go out and find it.
    9-brave and in the wood=the treasure is in the woods below lower coffin lake in Montana and you have to be brave to walk in the woods around there….

    it is in Gallatin national park, named after Albert Gallatin, a PA politician…thats why there are hints about PA in there and why F quotes Albert einstein….Pa is called the keystone state and there is a Keystone symbol on the chest where the keyhole is and it is in a park named after a politican from the keystone state…

    all IMO….

    • clues-
      I don’t believe there is a Gallatin National Park..There is the Gallatin National Forest…perhaps that’s what you mean.

      Watkins Creek flows INTO Hebgen Lake, not away from it…so it seems to me if you were following the creek away from the lake you would be going UP a canyon rather than taking it in the canyon DOWN…..against the current and gaining elevation. However, as I remember, that area is hard to describe as “canyon” country. Watkins Creek is not in a canyon per say. Possible alternative could be DOWN as in south but Coffin Creek is SW along Watkins Creek…not directly South…so that seems like a stretch. Coffin Creek does run pretty much north to Watkins Creek…but again..the problem with the word “canyon”…which just doesn’t seem appropriate, to me, for the geography in that area. The next creek north into the lake is Denny Creek. It also flows into the lake and not away from it. But it does flow almost directly North…so if you followed it away from the lake you would be traveling South (down on a map). But again..the issue with a canyon…it’s pretty flat ranch land along Denny Creek…

      The outlet for Hebgen Lake is over at the dam…where the Madison River continues on down. There is a canyon below the dam and many people have examined that area for miles downstream including Beaver Creek …which runs into the Madison below the dam and the area around Ghost Village which is an interesting area just above Quake Lake.

      The area below the dam was changed severely in 1959 when a major earthquake hit that region resulting in the death of many campers and vacationers in the area. As a result of that earthquake it is now quite different than it was when Forrest was a kid.

      • Yeah its hard to tell which creeks flow in which direction and elevation from google maps..haha…

        I just got fly fishing gear for Christmas so maybe i will take a vacation there this summer to see with my own eyes…

        • clues-
          I believe the only outflow from Hebgen Lake is the Madison at the dam….and evaporation…
          Everything else drains into the lake from the surrounding hills and mountains..

          • oh ok…

            the closest i think i got to the right solve in that one is the water high meaning a lake/river or other water system that is in higher elevation around the area….

            Dal have you been to firehole ranch? that seems like a cool place to check out…

            also, are you a fly fisherman? is it really good fishing around there?

          • clues-
            Firehole Ranch is private property and I would never knowingly trespass. However, it is certainly possible I was on their property and didn’t know it 🙂
            I have looked in that area quite a bit by following the clues as I comprehend them, there is more in that area to explore.

      • …oh, come on now, isn’t there something more you’d like to share? Early on, what made the Chama river in NM such a likely candidate, what was that,?
        oh yeah the bait shop… HOB

        Anybody care to guess where the Montana record Brown trout was caught & what year?

        • My Daughter and I first were looking at Chama NM but not because of the bait shop only because she calls me “Chama” instead of “Mama”. We never knew there was an actual Chama in the world before the chase…:) She said “How cool would that be if it was in Chama, Chama…” Unfortunately, that particular lead did not pan out and we headed up into Colorado…:)

        • @nineclues, I’d be a stupid totc bass if I didn’t want the answer to that question. So let’s have it!

  63. Philly, I enjoyed your interpretations/definitions and its a great solve. Do you think changing such a prominent portion of the poem – capitalized B of Brown to A is “messing with F’s poem”? IMo that would be messing with his poem; but I would enjoy understanding your logic behind that change.

    • yeah i think it does… i though about that while doing it but hey, forrest did not get to where he is by playing by the rules all the time… but i mean if brown was a name of someone, wouldnt have someone figured that out by now? and if not, why the capital B?

      • In recent posts by Forrest he has made it clear that the clues refer to places.
        The capitalization of Brown is an ephesus on brown and imho it is not directly referring to a person.

  64. Does anyone have an opinion about the unintentional clue in TFTW. Just got it for Christmas and still combing through it.

    • i think he said the unintentional clue is that the chest is not in Canada, as the map is cut off around there…

      • I agree about the “unintentional clue”. Forrest said it was Canada. That he simply didn’t notice it was not on the map until the map and book were published.

        • Now that could mean that the chest is not in Montana near the Canadian border…or he would have noticed a big chunk of land to the north of the chest was missing, when he was checking out the map…or not…

  65. Question for windsurfer, and anyone else
    You called Mr Febn a “Trickster”.
    Just wondering where you got that name. It seems pretty direct of a word to use.
    Just wondering since it is an odd word to use and yet still is word with meaning. But so is hero.

    • Arrg,

      Not much thought put into it other than I believe Mr. Fenn is tricky and I feel he has played the Lucy trick with the football on me on any number of occasions. Must have started back on Halloween. IMO. LOL!

      Now, I guess you will have me looking up the word “trickster”.

      I am not trying to confuse or offend anyone. I just think Mr. Fenn likes to play word games. The jury is still out on mind games. Like I said…he is a trickster.

      • Windsurfer & arrrrg,
        a game player he is, so inside of my head I’m thinking don’t rule out mind games, monopoly, playing with fire, Texas hold’em, goose chasing, and especially staying home playing canasta in front of my fire. what did I miss that f thinks is fun? He must have belly laughed with Tesuque over some of our funny stories and failed attempts.

        • Well I understand the dog thing, the
          monopoly, playing with fire, Texas Hold’em, and maybe canasta. Working on that one but only one way to prove it and this old Cleveland Ohio body of mine is too beat up to brave the cold right now. Lol

          By the way. Where did Texas hold ’em get said. I seen poker. We are all playing that “with happiness in the pot” but I must have missed that game.

    • Arrg,

      OK, I looked up “trickster”. No I do not believe Mr. Fenn is tricky in the sense of being a fraud or dishonest. In fact, I believe that Integrity is what he is all about and if you challenge it…then the wrath of Mr. Fenn will come upon you. This is a good thing.

      Sorry if my use of the word trickster was misunderstood by anyone. Let’s see…a better word….how about..CLEVER!

      Well, I have not looked up the word Clever either. All I can say is that I do not know the dictionary as well as Mr. Fenn and I only have the utmost respect for him.

      • I think prankster is appropriate here because he knows full well his subjects lack understanding, so he allows them to go ahead and fool themselves. I don’t think he has a mean bone in his body but he sure likes messing with people. One thing I like about Forrest is that he seems to treat people with respect regardless of whether they deserve it or not and when someone says something mean he finds a way to say positive things, that’s hard to practice. I wonder if it isn’t because he believes the inherent value in people is the fact that God made them, not because they are a good person. IMO

      • I was just wondering where you came up with it. It is not the first time it was used on here. I believe Dal, Goofy, and Wolf has used it a few times as well.
        My curiosity was not defined from a regular dictionary more of a Indian dictionary term. I like to see him on the hero side of things with a distinct flare.

        I do hold him with high morals and up most sincerity with this game as I think most on here do as well.
        I did not mean to imply anything towards you and I hope you didn’t infer otherwise. It was more of a question I was thinking about.

        As I too do not think he would say anything false. I do think Mr. Fenn has mastered the art of linguistic as well as linguistic technology.

        For that, his words need to be looked carefully and from all points of view.

        • Arrrg, please forgive my intrusion- was it you who once said, “… with my trusty kite…?” i have a question about it- if it wasn’t, my apologies.

        • Arrrg,

          Sorry if I misunderstood your Inquiry. Please excuse my ignorance as I think I am hearing voices-

          HELLOOOO! McFly1???
          Ground Control to Major Tom….?
          Is there anybody out theeeeere?

          Or something to that affect. I swear,, sometimes I think my half a brain moves slower than the U.S. mail. Must be the Ickky Stardust in my eyes. 🙂

    • Yes Arrrg I’ve used trickster as a descriptor for Fenn. I think I got this from Dal’s stories about the Coyote (you should read those two parts if you haven’t). The Indians regard the Coyote as a trickster. Fenn describes himself in one of the videos as a “hustler”. Perhaps that would be a good question for Jenny’s site; what does he mean when he says he’s a hustler. He says in the videos his favorite saying is “It doesn’t matter who you are, it only matters who they think you are”.

      Read his story about how he told the good looking gal that couldn’t paint how to sell her art work. Read his seventeen dollars per square inch story. Read his story about selling the de Hory forgeries. Read his story (actually I think it was a video) about not going down the center line but learning how to bump the curbs without going too far. He regularly describes the absurdities of the fantasy land that is the art world. The value of art is simply perception…….and he is a master of manipulating perception. He let people stay for free in his guest house; but everything in there had a price tag on it.

      Don’t get me wrong, I’ve never met Fenn but I think I would like him. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for what he has accomplished. I wouldn’t hesitate at taking a check from Fenn, it would be good as gold. But if he was writing that check to buy something from me I wouldn’t be so sure I hadn’t just been hustled. He made millions by buying stuff and then selling it for more than he paid for it. He said he played Monopoly in his business. I would think he would be very good at Monopoly, part of winning at Monopoly is dumb luck, a roll of the dice, the other part is shrewdness, making the right decisions, and wheeling and dealing. I would hate to think what buying Mediterranean Avenue (one of the cheapest properties) from Fenn would cost as the game progressed.

      I think Fenn is a great guy that is generous, kind, a pleasure to talk to, and it’s been lots of fun hearing about his life and antics. It’s not often that a rich guy likes talking to, and is willing to share intimate details about his life and business, with us regular folks.

      So we may know what his bathroom looks like and what’s in his closet, but we have no idea what’s in his head……because we have accepted his challenge and are dealing with a master at manipulating perception, a Houdini with words. He enjoys the challenge of matching wits with the chasers. I don’t think it’s personal when he ties the chasers into a knot and takes them on an emotional roller coaster ride. It’s part of the game, if it were easy the winner wouldn’t appreciate the thrill of the chase.

      So to sum it up, I think he would give you the shirt off his back, buy you supper, let you stay in his guest house for free, but when you pull out the Monopoly Board he’s going to clean your clock.

      This is not a game for the thin skinned or over emotional folks. Fenn is both a good friend and a fierce adversary…….a line that is difficult to walk, but Fenn seems to do it (most of the time) with ease and grace.

      Just my opinion.

      • Please don’t take what I said wrong. I didn’t mean to call anyone out. It was nothing more then I thought on that word. “Trickster”. I agree with everything you said and the last thing I want to do is get into a game of matching wits with the master of it. This is hard enough as it is with getting On his radar.

        I am sure he wins every game he plays and yet the beat model of a guy to follow.

      • Well done Goofy. Great multidimensional peak into the man we all would like to understand better. I agree with Dal, Wow.

      • Goofy_Old_Guy,
        Based on the Native American stories that I have read, I’m not sure that I would place ff in the role of the trickster; rather, my story about him would start out something like this:

        “Now Bear was the wisest of all the people who lived in the mountains…”

        Happy New Year, everyone!
        Geoff

  66. …google ‘record Brown trout in Montana’ but if you want the maximum # of results, without clicking page after page, try DuckDuckgo.

  67. I wonder if the quote in the scrapbook post about his dog was directed to the tay bridge disaster.Anyone else wonder about that?

  68. The other night on the 28 th.
    My 4 year old started drawing on a piece of paper, actually it’s a drawing of lines and a loop and then a x , so tonight I noticed her drawing more in detail I turned the paper and it matches my directions on my next search , how weird is this . She has no idea what I’m doing . I guess in June I will just see then if her drawing is correct 🙂 I will save this paper 🙂

  69. Perhaps I should give up before I’ve even started. Fenn end of year summary looks pretty bleak. 5 years in and no one yet knows if they are close.

    • Lilly,
      I think a lot if people think they are close but close only counts in house shoes and bocce (hand grenades is not good example considering all the war stories)

      But determination and a lot of research is needed. (IMO). I believe he said something along those lines. Anyone, new or old can all of a sudden get what he is saying and walk out and pick it up.

      So, my message to you is be that person.

      • That’s strange. From recent posts I think most of us were thinking that SHE was close. That Bass person. The lillypad. Now to discover no one is close? So odd. Back to the drawing board 😀

      • Great message Arrg, Until someone holds it in their hands, all solves are valid and one is as good as the next. So Lilly, do not short change yourself and miss out on the fun and adventure.

      • I dislike my phone….it is not smart no matter what they say. Sorry about all of the auto corrects. The phone likes to change my “of” to “if”. (It took 5 times to type that “of”.

        We (my kids, wife and myself) have learned so much with this Chase that I can not even explain it all with a post. I think most people on here have learned more with this then when is high school or college.
        The deeper I go the more questions I have for Mr. Fenn. I really want to finish this thing for the opportunity to ask more questions and not really about the chest. More about all of the other things I have found out.
        That is something for you Dal, start a page for Questions to Mr. Fenn that is not about the chest. Once the basic questions are covered like the, who, where, when’s are covered we could get some deeper questions the outdoors, Indians, history, the Wild West, the is it true? Does it really work?
        I got a survival book for questions that I am sure Mr. Fenn has tried all of the things in it. Some of which I am not brave enough to try on my own yet.

        I still stand by my earlier comment that this is the best learning experience of all time. A well thought out class room study with homework and field trips. The best part is we all don’t know we are learning when we are doing it or look at it as learning.
        We all should send something to him for Teacher Day!

        * Never give up! Never Surrender!*
        oh wait that was Galaxy quest. (Not a popular movie but one I like).

        • I agree Arrrg, I have learned more about Mt, Wy and N.M. Then I did when I was in school so long ago. I was born in Colorado so I researched the state over the years. The Rocky mts has a rich history which can entertain a person for years.

          I support a Q&A section.

  70. I have even been teaching my mom some of the stuff. Lol… Telling her is more the term not teaching she knows most of it. She’s even told me I’ve been to Garden of the gods , cave of the winds, seven falls when I was little. I forgot about that till she told me. Mom and dad took us to every state in the continental united. They packed me and my brother in a car and drove us everywhere and I still am learning more today. But mom and dad are a whole different subject. Old school parents that are hard to find now a days. They taught us Family is everything Learn all you can. Married when mom was in 9th grade, dad in 11th. Lived across the street from each other. Brother was not born until she was 21 Still married today and mom it’s still a kid at 70. She plays World of Warcraft with my kids (pretty good at it too) but she also showed them how to cook, clean, and wash there own cloths. She says they should be dependent on anyone. Now don’t get me wrong, I show them this stuff too, she just gets to play games with them all day from another state. Xbox live and on line games.
    Lol and now we are all into this chase. So Mr Fenn not only got the kids off the games, he got my mom too. Lol.

  71. Regarding Summary 2014–

    Do people really send Mr. Fenn detailed descriptions of their solves for the poem? I have sent messages indicating general areas or even a photo or two that he may or may not recognize, but I have never sent anything specific for fear of it being hacked.

    Do you all think it is even safe to send specific solves to Mr. Fenn via his P.O. Box?

    I also always wonder whether he is interested in the searchers activities in the field. He is a man of very few words and I understand that but it is really difficult to know much of his feelings about such things.

    • I have not sent him out solve for fear of a few things. 1) I don’t understand the whole ” level the playing field”. I don’t know if that means if someone sends him the correct solve would that mean he would start giving bigger hints? Or is what that means. I personally wouldn’t want to bother the man as I would think it has to be everyone only talking to the man about the Chase. If I could talk to him that would be the last thing I would talk to him about unless I had the chest. Lol then I would ask a few questions and move on to other stuff. His life is so full of information that he has come across or has done I would just like to learn all I can. I mean he is a walking Encyclopedia. I think the one who gets to find the chest will get to know who he is, not just who everyone thinks he is.
      On top of that, the fear of email hacking comes up. I have nothing on my computers. Only written down and that stuff is all coded.

      • He didn’t put it in the middle of the woods! But how can he see it,a webcam,he happen to be watching? I don’t have the logic? Give me a clue?

        • Sasa-
          Who says it’s not in the middle of the woods. Doubt everything that didn’t come directly from Forrest’s mouth…and question that too….mistakes and misinterpretations abound.

          This question about how he knows the chest is still where he hid it has been discussed admirably and there are many theories.

          • Logic=log I see. I believe he has mentioned google earth. He has also said ,”look under a log”. Obviously you cant see under a log using google earth, but in his story about being shot down in Laos, I believe he said a locator beacon went off when his parachute deployed.
            If it was me, I ‘d be thinking along those lines. Kinda like a black box in a airliner.

  72. Here’s a thought: find the set of three in each day, tie them (or add or subtract or multiply) together, and you might get a “sum.” Think about the three strings story. Look at how he strings his scrapbooks subtly together. Find the strings of three and maybe you will find the supra set, the infinum.

    • Speaking of strings, the ball of string story still stands out to me as one of his subtle hints. I don’t understand it, nor know what to do with the information, but I feel it is important.

      There are of course several stories/phrases in TTOTC that make me feel that way. Ball of String, old Biddies, Hemingway citations, Spanish/Mrs. Ford just to name a few.

      I try not to rely on the book & only concentrate on the peom. However, Forrest did say that within the pages or TTOTC are hints to help you figure out the clues, and I do believe I have done so in at least one case, perhaps two, or perhaps none at all. I’ll be the first to admit that an active imagination and reading TTOTC can lead to many rabbit holes.

      Clinger

  73. Hi All. I have 2 questions.
    1) Is anybody on here currently living in the Boston area of Massachusetts?
    2) Does anyone think anything of rt 599 being the Veterans Memorial Highway?

  74. I just looked at the map from ff other book. Wish I had seen this earlier. My best solves are not highlighted. How certain are you folks that this map is part of the TOTC book poem?

    I mean how many folks will not have seen this poem that are out their searching on the basis that all that is needed is the poem; which is actually still true but they lack the additional clues? I don’t imagine there is any way to level the playing field for them.

    • Inecorgi- onecorgi (typo?)
      How many people don’t know half the clues Forrest has left anywhere?
      I disagree that the field of available information is not quite widely available to most everyone. However, many don’t look much past what is being poured down their throat.

      I think of it as sort of like a speeding ticket. Just because you didn’t notice the 35mph speed limit sign will not be a good enough excuse to get you out of the ticket.

      The information Forrest hands out is available to nearly everyone and often appears in more than one place. Some of it may be a clue. Some of it may not. Just think of the vast number of public places Forrest has left information specifically about the chase…
      Two books
      TV
      Magazines
      Newspapers
      Radio shows
      Blogs
      Videos
      Book signings

      A vast assortment of information over more than four years and it gets larger and more complex with every passing month. And this library of raw information does not even begin to address the number of interpretations various folks place on it.

      In some ways the Chase is like religion. Some think that Forrest speaks to them directly through his writings. Others feel forsaken because Forrest never speaks to them. Many find new meanings in old words and become “enlightened”. Some start their own sect and recruit new searchers based on different interpretations. Some feel they found the true meaning of the chest. Some are agnostic and some don’t even believe the chest exists at all. Many are happy to live without giving any thought to chasing the chest. Others are devout chasers and admirers of the person who started the chase. A few are addicted and need help.

      The field is as level as it can be given the chase’s growing complexity and the poem’s constant reinterpretations.

      But certainly, there is a great deal of information out there about the chase, the poem, Forrest, geography, history, anthropology and archeology to keep a person occupied. Having said that, I will agree that knowing everything about Forrest and the chase is impossible.

      On the other side, people ask questions on this blog that have been answered three or more times in the past. The map in TFTW is a perfect example of that.

      Folks who want information have two choices..they can look for the answer or they can ask for the answer. The map you refer to has been published multiple times, once in a book that cost $60 and once in a magazine that cost $3 and once as a wall poster that cost $100. Additionally, it has been posted on this blog and others for free. Discussions about it occurred on every blog. If people want to see the map and read what others think about that map, they have choices and that is about as level as a playing field can get. The map has been discussed and argued and interpreted to within an inch of it’s flammable life.

      If you never felt that the map in TFTW was worth the effort to take a look at it before you formulated a solution then you could not possibly have done enough research to see what has been said about the map, the book it appeared in and revelations that map has produced. Discussions about it have occurred in many sources over the past year.

      In my mind the field is very level. Forrest has worked hard to make information available to all. In the words of that great international writer “They”…They say, “You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.”

      • Dal

        You know your kinda like
        Bill O’ Reilly
        You just say what you have to say, no beating around the bush .

        I wish Bill would run for President 🙂

        • William..there is. It is an illustration and has a frog on top of it. Some believe it holds a clue to where the chest is located. I disagree.

          • Dal, isn’t that the one in TTOTC? The one in the back of TFTW doesn’t have the frog, does it?

          • Hi Dal, Happy New Year!!! Are you referring to the map that folds out in the back of the book TFTW? I don’t see a frog????

          • I’m sorry…I misread what William wrote..
            Absolutely correct..the map with the frog is in TTOTC and the map without the frog is in TFTW…my HUGE mistake…sorry for the confusion..

            ahh…that begs the question…William..you didn’t know about the map in TFTW??
            The last page folds out into a two page map…
            Like in Playboy…but without staples..
            That’s how we know the chest is not hidden in Canada..

          • Dal, Is there really a frog on the Map in TTOTC??? I thought it was the same as the map you have posted here under important info…

      • The funny thing is that after two years of chasing the golden carrot, it’s taken a year and 11 months to finally be confident on the way I see hidden meanings. You basically have to “play” and learn the rules of how to play on your own. And it is addicting, but my problem is I cant shut my brain down and stop analyzing every word. Dal, I know you know what I’m talking about via the theories I mentioned in my e-mail. Yet, by having that pen and paper next to my bed , so I can write down that “OF COURSE!” moment, and most of all, play it like a kids game. I Spy my eye. Forrest had to of been bored a time or two on those trips to Yellowstone in the back seat with Skippy and June.
        Here is what I mean. First , I believe that each chapter in the book TTOTC has a hint or clue which will make sense once you connect the dots to the poem. Such as ‘Two dead biddies”= “Two sleeping bags”
        Bring a sandwich and a flashlight. Reverse sandwich to “Which sand” and “Flashlight”, to “LIGHT FLASH” and “LAST FLIGHT”. This is referring to Apollo 17, the last Apollo flight….who where doing a experiment on flashes of light seen by ALL of the Apollo flights. The sand was taken from a somewhat recent meteor impact, and other samples. The funny thing is it was orange sand ” remember Tang”? The drink that went to the moon? TANG is short for tangerine. I’m pretty sure the astronauts had to recycle there urine. Tang urine. Yumm.
        And games like “Wheel of Fortune”
        TTOT Chevy Chase= Spies Like US=Like U.S. On Facebook =Cover. Look at the cover face of the book. That to me looks more like a camera than a bomb on that jet.
        “You cant judge a book by its cover”….remember Forrest said,”It’s not who you are, its who they think you are”.
        Forrest plays poker. Do you really think he would tell you the little tricks he’s learned the first game? I wood knot. Yes, there is a method to his madness. Here is one you’ll like. As I believe it is in New Mexico, take the section where he was shot down behind enemy lines.
        ENEMY LINES= N.M.E. lines= BEHIND NEW MEXICO ELECTRIC power lines.
        Now the trick is to match the book clues to the location that is given you in the poem. I’m confident thats what he means by the person will know right where to go. Ah…..So much K.A.O.S. If it could only mellow in a marsh. Good Luck Ya’ll !

        • New Mexico electric power lines rings a bell. I once looked around a power sub station behind the visitors center in Whiterock. Near it are some cliffs pock marked with holes. The Los Alamos area is surrounded by these types of cliffs. You could spend a life time looking in them. (Pajarito means little bird in spanish.)

      • Dal,

        I ask for no favors and I take what I can from the discussions on this site.

        Even though I take mild offense if you intended to include me in the ignorant horse analogy, I have always been appreciative of your efforts to supply searchers with helpful information and feel ‘you do’ go out of your way to help level the playing field, especially in your most important info section that helps newcomers get up to speed.

        I feel silly for ass-u-ming that nothing beyond the poem was needed or helpful, except for a subtle hint or two found in the TOTC. Therefore, I did not buy TFTW and therefore I did not buy the map nor view it until recently when I found it on your site. I never decided that the map was not worth my effort. But I ‘was’ aware that the book was published and I chose not to purchase it.

        I asked in my post for clarification, partly for my own benefit but also for the benefit of the new searchers who might feel intimidated by the voluminous information available to comb through. As you note:

        Forrest has left information specifically about the chase…
        Two books
        TV
        Magazines
        Newspapers
        Radio shows
        Blogs
        Videos
        Book signings

        Still in the Chase,

        Onecorgi and not Incorgi ;^)

          • One-
            Ohh…I see the “lead a horse to water…” saying.
            I mean all of us…Who knows what points are hidden in what Forrest writes and says…
            Those points will be discussed and argued long after the chest is finally found…
            My point is that the playing field is as level as it can be as far as I am concerned..

  75. Has there been discussion surrounding the map showing declination degrees that seem to be off a good bit?

  76. What is the key word we should have a “tight focus on?”. I have two possible words and Brown isn’t one of them – I can’t wait till summer…..

  77. Forrest is giving us all a free education even if we never find IT we may have learned to think on a collage level and if we do get to fenns level how cool would that be. WOW prized based education is a great Idea…pay people to learn not the other way around! 🙂 Thats why I always hoped there was a second prize for guys like me but it looks like a no at this time..

  78. I wonder if the poem is a relatively simple math equation. (And, take, go in, is, are, will be–all equivalent to mathematical symbols)

    Or if the “useful” map does not relate to places at all.

  79. I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas and will have a Happy New Year !! We spent a different but enjoyable Christmas in England! It looks like I have a lot of catching up to do on the blog! Best wishes to all!!

  80. Here is a clue that I have not seen anybody pursue: ‘Chase’
    I found a place in Colorado named Chase. Up in the far north western part of Colorado below Browns Park, and south east of Greystone.
    Chase Hill, CO
    40.565201,-108.572998

  81. ????????????????Santa FE?????????????????????????????????????????

    I know it is not popular to say ” Is there another Santa Fe? I know , I know , Dal , has said there is no other Santa Fe, any where you could come up with one… But, Let me ask then ……. Why is there a Santa Fe located to the South of San Lazzoro ? It’s listed on old maps from the 1800’s as well as Google Earth. ( Sorry for the spelling) South of the modern Santa Fe?????? Why would 8.25 mile in a northern direction at 10 degrees can I find menerva’s skin? Why do I see a cayon Down that has giant looking Indian head arrows of falling rocks all around it , and last why would there be aarea where the water dried up from the steam … WWH?

    WHY WHY WHY ????????????????
    Funny , to understand something a human must first ask , Why? What ? Where ? and When? These are the lowest fruit on the Logic Tree and should be respected as such , as it is used in every Scientific theory…

    Okay , No I don’t think it is the location …. I also would agree with Dal on this one… But, it leads me to believe my theory more. It’s just another hook for a Fish who wants a bite. But, only one hook is Forrests… and I’m a 36 inch Trout.. Which is not that big…. I fished for Speckled Trout… and have caught some huge one’s . Then again the Gulf of Mexico is not even a mile from me , here in Florida. The weather is completely beautiful ,and it’s season to catch the big one here…. Wish I could go.

    • I did not say “there is no other Santa Fe”. I said that when asked Forrest said that the Santa Fe he was referring to is Santa Fe, NM. He did not say which Santa Fe, NM.

      • Awesome , thanks Dal, I do thank you for clearing that up for me.. I apologize I was not trying to miss lead or mix up your words Sir.. Sorry…
        Now , that is a interesting fact and now , I have 2 locations.. If you do go there Dal , If you know where I was suggesting … It is a cool area , and could mean why people have been close also coming due south from Santa Fe , close to San Larazzo Possibly north of the Old Santa FE which from their 1600 chains is menevera’s skin…. I don’t know if it is the place , but it really makes sense to the Like Fe Pair quote in F’s book TTOTC on page 101 . If you fold the age in half you will notice that it takes a shape.. which looks like a mummy’s sarcophagus. Out line the poem in pen and you will notice it..line each sentence , and color in the lines between the sentences .. Pretty cool . All the poems in the book due this and alter … Even the main poem.It is also the Egyptian Moon Symbol.. To add to this , it changes the poem that is written there. The poem changes to

        The Moving Writ
        Moves Wit
        Shall Aline
        Nor all of it

        A like Fe Pair
        And A Throw Stair
        A muzzes cries
        “Fool’s Your There”

        Strangers Who
        Before us Through
        Not oad
        Whiooo
        Forrest was big on Egyptian History I believe .
        Weather It’s a trap I don’t know , Forrest is a tricky man , and Knew we all would look at yellow stone and eagle’s nest. It was too easy!!!!! Captain Kidd is a good theory finding forests inner kid.. He said it would be difficult.
        Forrest using a child as a metaphor, as in reading the book to me means stop looking so deep that you passed right by it…. Like I said he is tricky … But, if you know what a trickster looks like he is a little easier to track. At least for me this feels like a game of hide and seek…..
        Just opinions based in a little information , dont know if it makes a lot of sense to you all … Of course it dose to my self ,and everyone hates their logic tested.

  82. TTOTC has dragged on for such a long time that I have started to think that most, must be doing something wrong. Pure logic. This is almost like Alexander’s Gordian Knot. Let’s not wait that long. Shall we?
    Call me a rebel if you wish. I have to see what’s in front of me. And forget the popular approach. My nine clues are…
    1. B, a plain letter from the alphabet. ‘Home of B’
    2. Always consider the opposite… not or… ‘knot’ to B. Every other letter.
    3. That, leads to think either… ‘toward’ B or
    4. ‘Away from’ B ( opposite direction) within the plane on which B stands.
    Now; we’ve got 4 (F-our) basic clues. The F-ollowing F-ive could be a bit more
    elaborate. After all, every cypher should begin with a simple concept and provide keys to its own solve.
    5. Consider the same for all other letters used. Fenn excepted “X”.
    6. Within a 24×31 Grid or Matrix, the combinations are exponential.
    7. Think numbers as well. After all, Zero and One=O, Two and Three=T, Four and Five=F, Six and Seven=S, Nine=N and that gives you an alpha-base 5
    8. Consider other languages and alphabets. Specially the ‘Old and New’.
    9. Mix and Match… or Watch. Effort… F or T? A secret where… or secret W?
    Can M=W? F be exchangeable for T? W=UU? U=V (an ‘old’ form of u)?

    And don’t forget the Roman letter-numerals. I,V,X,L,C,D,M (1,5,10,50,100,500,1000).

    • xisix, I dabbled a little with 2b or not 2b couple years ago but got nowhere. That’s not to say you won’t, who knows. I believe your letter values are not correct, but that’s my opinion.
      other languages, I get Spanish now and then. Roman numerals, v for sure, also ix.
      w=u, f for t don’t see it, u not = to v, w=efft, w=efo, (efo short for effort).
      y is very important, adding the nine clues will give you your elevation. All imho.

    • Victor,

      Interesting and amusing but very confusing and complicated…

      Your opening sentence is correct IMO…The second also…From there the reasoning escapes me…

      Except for the last part of # 4…No cyphers, but ‘begin with a simple concept and provide keys to its own solve’ I can wholeheartedly agree with…This, I think, is given in the poem…

      I just read it differently….My 9 clues to the search location?…

      1. As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold, I can keep my secret where, and hint of riches new and old.
      2. Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk.
      3. Put in below the home of brown. From there it’s no place for the meek,
      4. The end is ever drawing nigh;
      5. There’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high.
      6. If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
      7. Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
      8. But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
      9. Just take the chest and go in peace.

      Understanding what my take on these are?…Not like anything you’ve heard or read…

      And how to find the chest once there?…Aye, there’s the rub…

      Good luck and good hunting…

    • Maybe on number 9. the “secret W” is the missing W that ff likes to leave out of his friend Edard’s name to save time. LOL.

  83. Hi! Can somebody point me in the right direction for the link of Skippy’s son who was involved in the underwater discovery of a canon and such? Sometimes this blog is like a black hole to me……..thanks 🙂

  84. I’m not far behind, Geez?
    J. Jones—Mindy, too far north for me to live! I’m comfortable wearing shorts and a t shirt. Maybe you could find us something warmer but still in the four treasure hunting states. Sorry it took so long for me to answer… Smiling.
    I had stuff to say but that was last year… best to just be quiet.

    Brimley… I’m not positive if I ever received a Christmas card, but I’d lost my internet for awhile. To you and yours, and all of the searchers a belated Happy Holidays and Great New Year.

    Chasing to keep up.
    Mark H.

    • Geez…geez what? I didn’t say anything…I’m confused, but hope the geez referred to awesomeness in general or something of that sort. Lol. Happy new year!

      • Lol, Jaime. I didn’t know what I said, either. I live very comfortably in my shorts and t shirts in Florida. 🙂

          • I will do that, Chad. After a long and particularly stressful day at work, I climbed into a hot bath at home with my iPad to catch up here in the blog. The first thing my iPad does is freeze. So give me a few minutes everyone. 🙂

  85. I do not recall if Forrest has said, or admitted that we need any kind of tool to dig with. Does anybody know about this subject? RC

    • Don’t quote me but I believe he said to the effect that no special tools were needed. However “listening good” will help understand that.

  86. Yes I thought it was something to that effect, but what is “special tools”? Is it something that is simply like a shovel, or a wedge?

    • Well maybe think about it this way…. and this is just my opinion….

      Forrest is always showing off the basic tools that indians used. So what if a “basic” tool is needed like a clovis edge. surely you could use a hatchet or ax which are special or a jackhammer which is even more special but they aren’t NEEDED. just a thought.

    • RC,

      To me the comment means there are ‘no tools’ beyond your two hands needed…

      Just my opinion…

    • Hey guys, I have been following this for about 2 years and I have not heard a direct quote from Forrest saying anything about tools. There was a reporter saying that Forrest said something to that effect but IMO Forrest has not corrected anybody on it.

    • I believe the tool comment originated from “Stephan Returns to the Blaze”:

      Just so all you seekers know, me and the lads did not dig beneath that thar tree of ours. A mysterious fellow named “f” once sent us a curious poem, part of which said somethin’ like: “…while fools argue about the quest, he won’t even need a tool, as he carries out the chest.”

  87. Hey Dal,
    last year you said this,

    on December 29, 2013 at 9:49 am said:
    … Forrest would not want to end his life in a campground or next to a trash barrel..(IMHO)

    I feel the clues must all be related to more or less permanent objects and certainly not ephemeral ideas…

    I also feel the clues have nothing to do with ideas people pick up from his books..
    Like the double omegas or rainbows or crescent moons..

    I totally agree with you on that idea, but
    You still have no interest in the double omegas or rainbows or crescent moons?

    • Decall,
      I also don’t think we’re looking for place names with “omega” or “rainbow” or any word in the poem and possibly the book.
      The more I research the more I’m led toward word association, especially math word association.
      Has anyone realized how many word problems are in the book? Like the kind a child learns in school?
      Does anyone see how many math words are in the poem?

      For example: 1 and 1 is 2.
      And means +
      Is means =
      Take means – (subtract)
      Put in below could mean the setting up of the problem:

      42
      -12
      ———-

      An example from TTOTC:

      If Forrest’s dad drove 1600 miles across 5 states. He drove 35 miles an hour, and detoured 50 miles out of the way to look at a plaque in a church. When they arrived at their destination, how long had they been on the road?

      Of course, this is only my current opinion. There are many of these type of elementary/junior high equations in the book.

      And I’m thinking I’m getting closer to discovering what certain words in the poem actually mean…IMO.

      • Mindy I love it! Well worth some thought. Unfortunately this ole arm chair treasure hunter is having some rough days. Too many quick weather changes have me in a tail spin. You go girl

      • Mindy, try this. Reverse engineer the route. Start at Temple Texas and follow a route up, 1600miles or so. Use certain words in the book as city,(or stop) references. Actually, for the long ride home with Skippy. Stops like- flat, santa fe, casper, shoshoni, lubbock, etc. For some reason, I think that whole story with Skippy is worth a look at. When he says Skippy let him out of the car and took off, I think that would be 33 mile road.
        At work now, can’t give you what I’ve found it’s all at home, but basically it’s just more hints. Backup info.
        As for the time he took this ride, he says almost 65 years ago, think of that being 66 years from when he was 80, not 64, so when he was 14. 1944.
        This whole story ties in with what he’s saying on page 133 about Captain Kidd.( Captain Kidd= Skippy)

        • Charlie and Mindy, I too love the “reverse engineering” route. Skippy died scuba diving and now resides “regretfully” in Davey Jones locker. The correct phrase (I believe) is : “two can keep a secret if one is dead” not “three can keep a secret” , (imo) , it refers to it being under water, but everything I’ve researched tells me its not in water. I was searching Las Tablas, New Mexico because “Tablas” also means “Plank”, tieing in with “walking the plank”, which ties in with Captain Kidd . See, perfectly Chaotic.

          • Seattle-
            Skippy’s body was recovered by divers after the accident. Forrest went down and retrieved Skippy’s body from the authorities. He was brought back to Texas and is buried with his mom. Skippy is not in Davy Jones Locker.

      • Mindy ,

        WOW!!!!!!! Fantastic…..
        Now your talking my language.
        1. Let me say , Double omega .. A omega’s value is 800 a Double is 1600 , ( 1600 Chains ) He drove 1600 miles…
        I do think it is coded the way you are looking … This is the approach that I have used also .
        2. The first Stanza starts ” As I have gone alone in there”
        If you look at the definition of *PIE Old English , it directly conforms AS and I being used as what could be a basic equation … AS is and dose have a LOGIC Value and I by definition is ” The Imaginary quantity equal to the square root of negative 1.
        3. On top of that IN ( look up the diagram of motion , and you see y one line running north to south and it is permanent . Where x runs east to west , on bolt positive and negative sides and is permanent . There you will see 4 strings… But , the funny thing is. The story of I tied 3 strings to that string, He knew all the tricks.. . So he tied like a giant base ball. But, this is the method used in string theory suggestion motion. and the use of Commas suggest motion, and is used in the mapping of particles in a containment system, and can map each practical and how they move .. Like drawing a dot in multiple positions and then you connect them showing how they are moving and the dots are the mapping process…
        4. There is a * on the bottom of page 15 a Convolution States OP1 and OP2 , operation 1 or operation 2 , which this operation requires a Sqt… which is how you track.!

        Track what …? That’s my question…………..

        Mindy I really think you have something….
        I ran some numbers and found a camp ground number , or a land claim number , which looks like a horse maker in the ear of a horse…… This is where I saw many tracks ,
        and Why Fenn fish stories do not appeal to me , there is more then walking up a stream and finding it, but that don’t mean it’s not possible, just unlikely…

        But I have a question for the Blog….?????????????????
        Why on page 122 and 123 Skippy is not shown?

        One other form that Forrest included in this poem in which I think I herd him say He built it as flight manual and some crazy math that if you can figure that out… But it was not the path , but I found that trail also by running the entire poem by definition only… At one point of one word … I won’t say right now, but it pushes you to look at
        a math called Gedanken , which is DE notational of Semantics of Computer Languages, which was developed by D.Scott and C.Stachy Oxford University.

        It also requires mass amount of data including the environment. I also understood this is used in flight to program auto pilots , used by people who do not speak the same language.

        JUST TO ADD IN FINAL

        I received a email for a searcher on the BLOG citing a question ….. I will share half the email,,,,,,,,

        Nywx gligomrk xs wii ,
        The only thing x is not in the poem-
        So To you who wrote this , I don’t know if your a prankster but funny enough it lines with some basic math …. How?????

        Define Comma :To De note boundaries between elements
        in a list as in 1 2 3
        List : Delimit indicates in the elements of a Matrix………
        Define Matrix : A linear Transformation
        Define Linear transformation: A linear transformation
        between 2 Vector Spaces V & W is a map T:v ►w
        Such the following holds true
        T(v1+v2)=T(v1)+T1(v2)+T1(1\2)
        this formula is used in every vector.

        With that said there is function also, which looks like this
        F:X►Y

        Function allows the matrix to extend beyond it’s self.
        Any way this is a form of 3d technology…..
        But again , there is no x in the poem….

          • Yea chad, basically there is a seemingly mathematical code with in the poem ..
            Finding it by using The Definition of the word it’s self . With that said , you basically converting the words into a 3d box. In short

          • Hi Deb,
            My son Zack is 14. He is way smarter then I could ever be, any way ; I went to him to see if he recognized a diagram
            that they used in the fifth grade to teach forward motion. Believe it or not … Kids these days are doing small amounts of Trig, Physics , and Long Algebra in elementary schools. He recognized the diagram and explained it to me as the diagram that implies motion. Pretty cool I thought….

            I personally have to say again ,
            I did not study Math to this degree until I read this book….Yea I went to college when I was 30. But , It had nothing to do with anything like I learned in the last 2 years.

            Plus dose any one remember how to triangulate a position……? I can remember doing that when I was 8. When I learned to use a compass in the Cub Scouts.
            Thanks for the post Deb…. 🙂

          • Hi Mike,
            I see your logic, but in my opinion, I don’t think it gets more complex than add, subtract, multiply and divide.
            I also think that the subtle hints in the book confirm or solidify what can be found in the poem.
            I’m trying to keep it simple. There are also some important word associations, I believe, that help define “it” and “where.”
            I don’t pretend to know the answer, but I’m working on it and getting closer.

          • Hi Mindy ,
            Thanks for your post. I agree , What I do Is post old theories I’ve used . I do believe it should also be kept in simplicity.
            But, A lot of times I use this blog to de note my theories. I really like your understanding in this chase, and find it helpful.. I guess what I’m saying is all I have posted is a test. To help me eliminate a search area.
            I do think I know what Brown Is
            , I feel very strong about it. Let me explain for a second why………
            Hint of treasures new and old….
            Mindy, what is Brown and very very valuable, and is on pg 64 of TTOTC.
            If you see that , it may or may not help your search, but it makes a lot of sense. I can find no other comity that is Brown.
            Good luck 🙂

          • Mindy….Hummmmm… Add -Subtract.
            very basic….. I like it … Like removing one tied string at a time. Hope we all didn’t already untie a dismissed theory yet, or this thing could be lost for along time.

  88. Cryptology the art of concealing something written with cyphers.
    Alphabetic, numeric or alpha-numeric.

    I have glanced at this possibility. After all Forrest has seemed to indicate there is something to this effect. A master of google foo could find the clues that contribute to this line of thought.

  89. -Opinion-

    The poem only fits one local. You would all probably agree with this right? ,? But then why are so many of you so sure. The answer must be that you and I are applying the wrong solution. Think about it, if you had the right solution and not the right area you could eleminate quickly just using a map. How is it possible that people can fit a solve to states other than the 4? Must be that the interpretation of poem has to be worked out before application.

    • I think the poem describes an area x by x sq miles. That if found and followed correctly will lead the searcher to the chest.
      Please keep in mind that this blog draws a lot of new people that have not read TTOTC etc. So they may be under the impression it is any other given state other than the four we know as the general search area. My advice to any new chest hunter is this.
      Buy The Thrill Of The Chase, By Forrest Fenn. Read it. Then
      ask questions. Makes life as a chaser a lot more interesting.

      • Chad,

        I agree with you… I started with just the poem… but once I read the book “The Thrill of the Chase” a whole new level of understanding of how Forrests’ mind works opened up to me. I also read his other book “Too far to Walk” many many times… So many great stories…:)

        • I have yet to buy that book, if it is anything like TTOTC I am looking forward to reading it. As things stand I am dealing with intense pain levels which makes reading a longed for past time. Hard to focus on reading more than a few minutes.
          Stay warm friends.

      • Chad,

        I too would suggest to the new searchers to purchase The Thrill of the Chase book written by Forrest Fenn. If it is not within their budget read the excerpts from the book found at http://www.oldsantafetradingco.com/assets/book-previews/thrill-of-the-chase.pdf.

        Dal offers great information that helps folks get up to speed. See “Most important information” and the Cheat Sheet.

        Chad, the only point I would add to your suggestions is to set aside the notion that the poem “describes an area x by x sq miles.” or any other limiting ideas. Setting all aside and then ask questions might be a good start for newcomers. After all the x by x can be square feet that add up to square acres, miles, light years etc. Not much to grab hold of and start the Chase for a newcomer.

        • I agree, My comment about x by x could very well be sq ft. And was meant for seasoned searchers. imho after looking at a myriad of possible sites via google earth I am convinced that hob is an abstract ideal applied to a physical location.
          One of which I have yet to figured out.

          I have a very good contender for wwwh and canyon down. So what remains is hob. Conventual thinking aside what could it be?

          • Chad,
            A thought I have been going on is ( my thoughts change rather quickly) that below HOB might be a mile or two below. I put in and head toward it rather than depart from there.

          • Here is my line of current thinking. I start at wwwh and proceed to the canyon down and follow it toward the hob. It is finding a hob that is challenging me now. Qualifiers for the right hob are ” it is not to far from the canyon down, and it’s no place for the meek. I have a few thoughts regarding the no place for the meek aspect and when I see something that relates research research research until it fits or is disqualified.

    • Close earth,

      This has been a dilemma for me as well. Does it come down to Just the luck of the draw to hit the correct area and follow the directions we all think the poem is telling us? or is there another method. In looking at the poem in a totally different light, I can see many different ways in the interpretation of WWWH other than a lakes, rivers, creeks, waterfalls etc. as well as other sentences in the poem.

      The author was asked once about the word Answer[s]… why it was plural in the poem and not on FF web site. The answer was {paraphrasing} one could be a typo . This made me take a closer look at the word water[s] Could this be a typo…I doubt it very much…But water and waters have some very different meanings, even though it seems plural in nature.

      Example; one definition of waters is embryonic fluid… could the interpretation of WWWH mean Birth? maybe canyon down is the birth canal, not far but too far to walk….well you get the gist. Is this a possibility that this sentence in the 2nd stanza is about being born or birth? Who knows…It’s just another way of reading the poem…Although it may not be excepted by many.

      My point is don’t stop thinking about different theories…Blinders give ya tunnel vision.

      • Seeker, my wwh, ” Begin (itw here, w in front)= begin wit (“warm waters” “h” alt. or alternate) this = Begin with warm water salt. Equals “epsom”. or e+p.
        After solving the poem and getting all the numbers, when you get the spot, you can then backtrack. It all does begin at warm waters halt.

  90. The quick answer seems traits from the poem are everywhere but there must be a proper methodology using numbers??

    • Forrest has indicated that numbers play a roll. “The clues are in consecutive order “

      • As of late I’ve been using a probability system to rate each of my solves using numbers and key words (a word that is key). I’m under no impression that it will be “easy” but straight forward, simple and elegant. I agree Chad one could fill a freight train with the amount of information circulating in the blogosphere.

      • Chad,

        I agree there are or could be numbers involve…keeping in mind that Fenn stated there are no codes. I like numbers from the poem myself and can see them almost everywhere. But what to do with them is the question.

        Halt is a good example IMO, Meaning left side, if we twist it a bit, left can mean west or west being 270 degrees. For me this is not the use of codes but an interpretation or the meaning of Halt.

        Far : meaning right side or could be east….90 degrees

        Like I said I like number as well… just not codes. For me IMO this method is not unlike using Multiple Meanings of the words themselves.

        • I like your train of thought Seeker. Recalling Forrest likes to play with words, it seems to fit nicely.

        • Seeker , I would like you ropinion

          I believe your right , I tried to exploit this idea of de coding this poem . I would have to agree … I do not think that it is completely a mathematical code.. but, I have found how to build a map key a map and plenty of other fun little stories with in this whole poem.

          What I’m trying to share is WWH and I may give up my HOB… Which I did when I asked the Blog Why Skippy is not shown in the Family photo’s of Yellowstone on page 122 and 123 .. But he is posted in the same type of paper on 122 and 123 , where he is depicted on page 52…just to add some light to this search . But , due to my finding, and my lack of trust in some folks I may not tell you My HOB. It only leads to one area of the country…… With in the Rockies….my hob is not a animal , bug , lizard, bird , or bear , stone , or a level with in the earths crust, as a lot of others have mention it’s not a Ranger Named Brown and has nothing to do with Yellow Stone at all… But , it has been a treasure that is NEW AND OLD…..One thing that Fenn said that stuck with me is ” If I told you that you would go right to it. That was a huge clue, for me and Brown .Hint.

          My wwwh is Fenn’s Heart ..on pg 77
          TTOTC he has a look on his face I’ve seen before…on page 76, he quoted “I climbed that ladder 274 times in Vietnam and each time I wondered if that beautiful plane would bring me home again. It did – 272 times.”
          The look on his smiling Face was no smile. Who would smile killing people? I have four Family members Who fought in Nam . And to get a smile while talking about it , that would never happen and most of the time they would look down to speak. Along with a Father who received his Purple heart in that war. My uncle flew the Choppers picking up wounded and was shot down also. He never smiled about any of it even after he became the President of Federal Aviation’s well after the war stopped .. At least he didn’t to me.

          145 of TTOTC
          ” And what I’ve learned that’s most important is that both Countries and People should know enough to just leave other folks alone and do a better job of protecting our planet.” Hint.

          Which brings me to , I really think Forrest’s Spiritually is American Indian Beliefs . Where I think he used Indian Medicine to provide a cure for him self for Cancer as well as modern medicine… Unless He is a Satanist, which I don’t believe , and only said it because a lot of Satanist follow American Indian Sun Dances to worship…Why? Well , They see the Bison as the first Image of Lucifer, and Lilith as his queen . She is the Fertility goddess of the ancient world. And is to the Day the oldest god projected in a image in the History of our planet. Check out the oldest statues of the goddess , and you will find this to be true. Not only that the Crow allow such folks to precipitate in their Dance.

          Like I said , I don’t think he is ? But , What I do Know about Indian Medicine , when you a very ill , the spirits are not happy with you .. So you take something of value and hide it. Where in legend it would mean a curse for you to find , being that the object that is hidden contains the illness. Pretty wild , but okay … It’s their belief and I will respect anyone’s belief even if it were not popular. I don’t judge ….

          This is all a opinion , I’m as uncertain as you all.
          But, I do like my HOB!

          • Mike,
            Spiritual and religion are two different entities IMO. So I hope you don’t take offense if I skip my opinion you ask for.
            It would just be rambling anyways.

            What I will state an opinion on is, my hoB as well as all the meanings of words and phrases have more than just a single usage. So if there is a religious or spiritual reference in the poem for hoB I would IMO not just use it solely in an interpretation. I think many meanings of each word, phrase etc. is needed.

            Just my way of reading the poem.

          • Seeker ,
            Thanks for your input , and no offence taken . I like all information that may help one solve this.
            Let me reflect if I may . I would have to agree with Spirituality and Religion , but It’s not by my Belief or understanding that I improvised this understanding. Fenn said it him self he was spiritual , and doesn’t like others shoving their belief down someone’s throat.. Or on that lines of this. Another comment he made was how close San Lazaro was to his heart… ” Very special to me” I think he said with a look of love I, and slight infatuation. In The Indian Religion , they teach spirituality like any other Religion dose. Belief is a Form of ” Self Proclaimed Religion”, and is used more then organized concepts.

            I’m not trying to confuse the two, but to understand how the American Indian worship. I do believe Fenn adopted this Life style, Spirituality , Religion , ect.

            Pushing past RELIGION which most don’t have a understanding , and if so it is very little , or formulated by other people and is not their own opinion. Only due to lack of information , or lack of education in this area. And it is not a great topic to comment to and most likely is why Fenn used the approach in the fist place. People don’t like to comment on this subject , it’s privet to most, and causes arguments that have no profit in logic.

            With that said … There were other questions I posted to you also I would like your opinion on… The reasoning that Skippy is only Mention in a Few areas.
            Leads me to believe it’s a subtle hint.

            Like ” THE HOME OF BROWN”
            Treasures New and Old , And a Brown that’s in a canyon Down.

            You want to know, I will share today my HOB, only because, I really Don’t Care if I get Rich .. Or have a lot of money .. At first it was attractive, but through I have a different purpose for being in this thing. I love a great challenge..

            My home of Brown
            I will tell you today when I get Back from the Doc’s House.
            Take care Seeker , Thanks for your input once again

        • I think we all know my take on the numbers thing. Anyone wants help, just ask. Agood thing to do is make a template. Letters a-z down the paper, also across for each letter.
          I’ve said a=7,l=1 many times so start with those. 7 letters forward for “a” will be “h”, 7 back = “t”. On the template, color those two spaces in, also, those two letters will end up equalling each other. So h=t. Same for “L”, 1 forward and back gives “k” and “m”, k and m will end up equalling each other.
          When you finally have it all, color in the template. Now that you have the values, apply to the poem, you’ll see. This might be obvious, but “x” equalls 9. So, “g” and “o” will equal each other. Your primary letter values, when added up will equal 80, the secondary values will equal 57.

          • That’s pretty interesting , Ill check that out… What I see when you are writing is ,
            A girded box, 26 across and 26 down , I’m not clear on how your values are being determined. Please explain.

          • Charlie,
            Have you tried any deciphering used in Nam or WWII etc.? I imagine there are software programs that can create ciphers according to ones criterion. Could help the numbers concept.

          • So wow=wow, I did something like that last year using the crossword puzzle grid and I did come up with, a diagonal phrase” nets a hot idea”. You can also get Fort Worth too, but I gave up on that dead end street.

          • yes, played with the cipher thing for awhile, but dead end for me. Nothing to gain except the idea of a template. As far as the values thing, i’ll give a little, but, took me a year and a half to figure finally, I have to leave a little headache for all:).
            When breaking down a sentence, try to figure letters = other letters, or certain words. Like wood, w+o=od (odd number) , Blaze line- w as e and fo (w=efo), blaze= bl as e (b+l=e), a=7,l=1 ( so hear me all and listen good) so (he are me)= some(or sum) all and l is ten( a=7,l=1, or a=1,l=3, or a=4,l=2) good= go odd. (in the end it’s a=7,l=1).
            Stuff like that, the whole poem should give you at least the values of- a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,l,m,o,p,s,t,u,v,w,x,y. The template will help with the rest. And yes, it does make a picture.
            After getting all the values, then go back and try to solve the poem. That part will be up to your interpretations, but you’ll find back-up info everywhere.
            One more. Captain Kidd is Skippy. Captain William Kidd= (captain= father) father William Kidd= Skippy, Forrest, or June. (d=1) so, Captain William Kidd= father’s kid 1= Skippy. Up to you to figure out Gardiner’s Island, Cherry Tree Field, and the rest. It’s all just a hint anyway.

          • I see Charlie, cool . I play with old CIA cypher and , Roman Cryptology .. Fascinating topics, and I can appreciate your knowledge , well done Sir.
            Thank you for sharing .

  91. Sure hope math is not involved
    I really disliked that subject.
    In fact I barely passed it.
    But I really don’t think it’s involved, or codes the poem is straight forward. 🙂

  92. The reason I think we are constantly getting it wrong is that we get stuck on a thought, and that thought drifts further away from the poem.

    We see coincidences everywhere. The poem and book are vague enough that virtually everything we read and every map we study ring our bells.

    I really do think the best way is to read the poem over and over and over, then read the book, then read and study the poem again.

    In the lists I’m creating, I’ve noticed a lot of subtle word play. Apparently, Eric Sloane loved playing with phrases also, since he liked to marry housekeepers, since they kept the house after they divorced. So, a housekeeper is a keeper of the house. Means two different things. But a butterfly and a flutterby are the same thing. The difficult part is that you won’t find a flutterby or a keeper house in any dictionary. Maybe that’s where imagination comes in?

    There is one thing I have noticed in the past week that I believe relates to the word that is key, or the key word. I’m still verifying it, and if it proves to be useful, I’ll probably post it, unless it leads me to a spot I can walk right up to.

    If I do find a spot I can walk right up to, I won’t wait til Spring (unless roads are closed).

    • …pack your snowshoes. I also knew where it was last May, what I didn’t know is that winter lasts a whole lot longer in the Rockies. I should have given it another month. it’s hard enough walking over snow drifts, let alone trying to find a needle under one. Just saying

    • Mindy, Just remember, the mountains can be unforgiving…… Old man winter has set in and much of the area can be dangerous… IMO I think the chest is safe till spring…. If you go Mindy, be prepared for the worst and hope for the best…… good luck to ya

        • Mindy , if you feel the urge and just can’t wait. Snowshoeing can be a very rewarding experience just make sure you have proper gear 🙂 some of us appreciate the cold.

    • Mindy,

      I find most all you said above to be similar to my take on things. Especially the first paragraph about drifting away from the poem.

      Hope it all comes together for you soon

  93. Yeah, if you go be sure to bring food and extra supplies. I’ve slept in my car when it was more than 20 below but i had the proper gear. I pulled my arms out of my sleeves and had heavy parka with hood, insulated pants, and Sorrel boots. Can’t be careful enough–it is so easy to run off the road when you can’t see anything. Pretty much the dead of Winter around here and snow is piling up. Above 5000 feet it’s not going to be easy to do anything. My suggestion is to bring a Winter survival expert with you or don’t go. But please don’t let me influence you decision. Watch some of those mountain climbing expeditions where they get lost in a blizzard. One guy his arm was frozen up in the air.

      • If I’m the Mike you are speaking Tampa
        ………………………………HOB…………………………………………
        IMO
        Many have debated , and some except that this poem
        starts at “Begin it” , Well I remember in school we always started at The Begging of a Paragraph not the middle , ” Maybe you should let a child read it… Say’s Fenn….

        With that in mind , not being a extremely intelligent person as most of you here, nor did I care about school as a child . I spent time in college after my son taught me to read. And thus a 4.0 appeared… I was shocked! But I have never learned more data and in a short amount of time then T could have given me.
        So, again Fenn , Im thankful. But , that dose not mean I don’t see this all in the same light … MY LIGHT. I trust no one and never will except my wife and family….and my Spirituality.
        For that , I must Apologize to the Searchers and Mr. Fenn
        I cant lie so , I wrote Fenn upset once and my language was totally miss colored , and weather I like it or not, I have learned from Him Directly on the subject matter I have posted in the past , and it forced me to study, and study everything I can’t stand doing, I hated Math and Science and School For that matter .. I don’t conform completely with society and I’m kind of a Hermit , only because I don’t like the way we all operate and pick at each others physiology , when knowledge is from all of us for all of us and set up by our peers. ….I’m simple
        but, I have kids and have to teach them the way it all works.

        With that said , My HOB in my opinion
        Let’s look at page 64 in TTOTC , That All I’m going to say.
        For now… I like to hear what all of you say too.
        If you look at the page. Pleapost what you see… Then I will Say what I see…..

  94. I was able to get out there over the weekend and it was about -2 degrees and a foot of snow on the ground. this was at about 9k ft. It made it not only difficult to look for clues, but to actually hike up the steeper hills and roads was very tough. The spot I had went to was spot on though and perfect. Seems promising, but so does everyone else’s map. LOL. This was our first expedition after buying the book nearly 3 weeks ago. I wish I would have known of this when it was first introduced. All in all we had a good time.

    In my research of the poem, HOB is not HOB. There are some numbers involved, but very little. the syllable count in the first stanza gives you the elevation, and an area of the finish line. WWWH is the beginning of the journey. and from there its actually very direct in which way to go. To me the 9 clues are the entire poem. There is 9 times in which the poem stops (. ?) IMO. I love sharing new ideas. I have plenty of them. 🙂

    • looks promising chistophon, I agree with, HOB is not HOB, does start at WWWH, and is very direct in which way to go, 9 clues are my coordinates all the rest I catogorized as hints, but can be seen as the whole poem is the 9 clues( if that makes sense).Hiking up in the freezing cold, wind, rain, snow flurries does make it very difficult, if not impossible. It is pretty cool when the wind comes roaring thru. Starts in the distance, sounds like a jet engine. Starts to suck when that one jet engine turns into 5 or 6 though at below 0 degrees.

  95. Mindy, did you send email? I got a email from Amanda. if you did not send the email. your phone may have been cloned. Have you had your phone worked on lately?

    • You didn’t rub a nerve. I was just correcting what I thought you said. Davy Jones Locker refers to the ocean. I assumed you meant that Skippy was left in the sea after he died. I want folks to know that is not the case.

      • I’ve always thought that Davy Jones Locker meant at the bottom of the ocean. I suppose it could be a generic term for dead, but I’ve never heard it used that way.

      • Hi Dal….. 🙂
        I was commenting on Skippy because , He was the Key to my HOB. I posted why was Skippy not shown in a Family scrap book on page 122-123 TTOTC

        But HOB is on page 64 , on the front of Skippy’s car. In a black and white photo, there’s a Brown Stain? On a non color Photo. So, Crude OIL is a ( Fill it up With Brown) Brown that is a Treasure New and old. Where wwh being a place born of chemical
        and is a possible reason Cancer could have come into a man who is in Perfect health at that time. Following that understanding before I bought any book or map, but I gain it by Listening close to every word Fenn said.
        My Evidence………
        The Brown Stain on the Car
        in a black n white photo.
        Pg. 67 TTOTC “The engine was in the water
        and the fan was throwing sprays all over the place and making noise like a helicopter.” Why not say sprays of oil?
        The oil Tycoon that he met.
        The Fact that oil fields have destroyed almost our entire environment , and to be honest … I could have cared less. Until I started to see what I was missing, as far as how beautiful this Earth really is. When you see how the American Indian have been treated to the day on their own land , lied to so companies can frack and pump witch toxicant into their rivers and streams killing their lands , Animals, and in some cases their children, by cancer agents used in pumping oil and natural gas. As far as a location , You will need 8 other clues to find the rest. But I did find a place ,
        by 3 mountains equal distance , a river by the eye’s of the gold frog, that are Blank Chains away from a location, and follow to a Place that looks like a heart that’s broken, and it has a WWWH, a canyon down , not far but too far to walk, of Course Oil (HOB) and a Blaze the translates GONE HOME. Which so happens to be a Medicine Wheel..
        At a time when my life was dim, These searches for me brought me peace of mind to a harsh heart. Where I prefer Flesh. I have told a couple searchers , I’m partly disabled from a serious accident, and I’m on the road to recovery…. Both mental , and physical . I studied every day for 10-12 hours. Listened to Fenn all day, and studied all subject matter you have read in every post I have posted….I have Closed my eyes and listen to him tie a fly, imagining his precision, to hear if he would leave a subtle hint. To just stories of pottery on his property.
        I don’t know if my spot is HOT . I can’t check the dang place …. So , my spring vacation to my spot , which a child could walk up to and take it , will have to wait, but I felt to share my HOB , in the Hope my Mavericks is correct.
        I cant go 🙁 If not.. Oh well I don’t have 3million now and never expected to have it in my life anyway….
        Money leads to quick feet. But, what do I know any way.

        • Mike,
          If you can convince me of your spot, I will check it out. If it’s there, I’ll split it with you after giving Forrest his bracelet back.

          • I have no problem with that… Wow you would really do that? Of course the bracelet.. I’m just surprised =) You would do this for me…….?????

            May I ask Why? Not trying to pry . I would love someone to look..

          • It’s been a long night.. Im beat. Good night . Ill be on later around 3-4 pm Est time ..

          • Mindy , I would love to see what your response to my question was. I’m looking forward to it.
            Your in Florida right? S o… Let’s email… And if you you would like to really sit and talk about this location , it would have to be a bit more secure. Possibly a meeting.

  96. ….Way, way, way off topic

    It’s getting harder and harder to beat these printer manufacturers at ‘their own games’…Fortunately this is some good advice on youtube about ink re-fills.

    When something sounds too good to be true… well that’s where the Printer mafia has you over the barrel. I have been so enraged with our latest Eps@n printer, that it was no surprise when I read that numerous class action suits have been filed against them in the last decade. Here’s a short quote;

    “Despite offering credits to its customers, Epson is not required to change its cartridge software and technology to reflect the actual level of ink in the cartridges. Rather, Epson will include a note on its packaging that each cartridge includes an ink safety reserve and will provide literature that explains why ink safety reserves are necessary for ink cartridges.

    The lawsuit was filed in California and other state courts claiming Epson committed several offences including breach of contract, breach of implied warranties, unjust enrichment, and fraudulent concealment. Epson America, Inc. denies any wrongdoing but decided to settle the lawsuit to avoid the cost of litigation.

    In order to be included in the lawsuit, claimants had to have purchased, leased, or otherwise received Epson InkJet Printers between April 8, 1999 and May 8, 2006.

    Epson is not the only company to come under fire for printers that shut down before the cartridge is actually empty. Other companies include Hewlett Packard (HP), Lexmark, Canon, Dell, and Brother. In 2002, Lexmark faced a class action lawsuit claiming that they forced consumers to use only their ink.

    Other problems with inkjet printers include a “killer chip” that prevents re-manufacturers from making compatible cartridges and expiry dates on cartridges requiring that they be replaced even if they have never been used. “

    • Another fine example of greed in the world today. Thanks for the heads up. Espon printers are now off of my wish list 🙂

    • Consider buying a hacked printer on ebay that has a continuous ink supply and buy bottled ink. They have the kits for the Continuous Ink Supply, but those just never are good for me. I end up buying a whole printer that has it already installed. I haven’t paid for ink in 10 years. I love them and to make this Forrest related…it’s important so you can print out the poem and then use clear packing tape to “laminate” it.

      Hard to have a conversation while on moderation.

  97. TTOTC has survived for too long. The clues might be encoded. Hunters might have gotten ‘stuck in mud’. I hereby provide a fresh view and 9 different ones. They include; The origin of language (as in hebrew alphabet), The history and evolution of language -latin/greek/etc-, Obscure popular culture, Themes and games, Central topics, Backbones, Royalty, Duality, End.
    1.Aleph
    2.Beta
    3.All roads lead somewhere. Either the sunny or the shady side of the path. Be it a two-track, a cobblestone, a paved road or a trail.
    4.Snakes and ladders (board games, novels and movies as in Indiana Jones)
    5.Whirlpools, the Eye of the hurricane, Mecca, Heart surgery, Ancestry, etc.
    6.Horns, Shofars, Ivory keyboards, Bones (tv series), and so on.
    7.Coats of Arms, Lineage lines, Palace architecture, Medieval castles, etc.
    8.Numerology, Pairs, Parallels, Couples, All things ‘bi’, Bicycles and toys.
    9. Put off, Offsets, Cricket, CSI, Ill, Out at sea, Rolling off (down and away).

  98. In a way I wish Forrest would drop a possible hint to our current direction regarding the math approach. Maybe silence is speaking to us?

    • Chad,
      at the bottom of the page is a link to, Mountain Walk- Richard Saunier, FF responded to a comment on there….you may find it interesting with this line of thinking. There is a lot of information out there to find / look at. Time consuming, but worth it.

      • An interesting read. unfortunately my head iss spinning telling me it is time for some sleep. Thanks for the lead

  99. Mike [or anyone on-line], I would enjoy giving thought to your hoB discussion as it relates to content on page 64. I’m not at home with my copy of TTOTC. Can anyone jog my memory about which photo or illustration is on page 64? Thank you!

      • Yes Sir, Correct, Skippy in a black and white photo with a Brown oil stain on the front of the car. Interesting . A Brown that is Riches New and Old….

        ☼ Lets pull this apart ☼
        As I have gone alone in there
        And with my treasures bold
        I can Keep my secret where,
        and hint of riches new and old.

        Where did he go alone in there alone… (imperative no one could know my hiding place. ( Protection for his family) I respect that. with my treasures bold … the treasure..

        This is a question to the searcher…. Where Do I keep my secret? And hint of riches new and old………………………..
        I believe Brown Is riches new and old and it’s OIL.

        Of course , It’s only a opinion and we all have one.

      • Hey Michael , I’m glad that is your search area , means mine is still safe! lol
        To add if I may,
        It looks like Skippy was photo shopped into that picture…
        But, Still why the stain? To subtle , and really …How many of you saw it in the book before I posted it?

        Define Subtle … so faint you would not notice…
        Skippy not in the Family photo’s on pg 122-123 TTOTC p 3 pictures of his dad… Where was Skippy? He was 58 pages behind it on page 64….. WHY? Found in Mexico where and how, heavy loads and water high.

        Here’s for you Victor and the Mason Concept… 122-64=
        58 5+8=13 The Mason number…. funny I thought… Any way I’m just chiming in .

    • lia,
      May I ,
      pg.64 top photo of Skippy in the Bison Mobile.
      The picture is Black and white. The front end of the Car has a brown oil stain.

  100. Inthechase & Michael – you guys are awesome! Thanks for responding with the info. That’s a terrific story and photo. Do you think hob is home to Bison, bison dung, or Donnie greesing his pants brown? Sorry, just having fun!

  101. We just added a radio story about Forrest and the treasure hunt from BYU that won an award from the Utah Broadcasters Association. You may want to skip the first three minutes as I drone on in an introduction to listeners about this guy Forrest. The remainder of the story…is pretty good…
    It’s on the Media Page of this blog…
    If you have not visited the Media Page…you should. It contains stories about Forrest by various press outlets including radio, TV and the internet…

    http://dalneitzel.com/2013/03/17/media-coverage/

    • Thanks Dal!
      I look forward to hearing your intro and the award winning interview with Forrest. PS you never drone.

      Does anyone know what year June and Donnie were married?

  102. Seriously? Did I just read Dal said that Skippy is buried with his mom? How is that possible?

      • I have physically researched in person, the cemetery records as well as the county records… There is no record of this.

        • Hum Dal… This just reopened my door into this closed part of my research! Anyone remember Forrest stating( way back when) that his dad isn’t buried in lot#- so & so, anyone could find that out on Google? I have the burial records of that cemetery… I went to Temple… His parents are buried there. I was actually there the day after Forrest’s gson. This info means… Also my burial records of Skippy somewhere else…wow

          • Lynn –

            I seems you have studied this very thoroughly……Good for you.

            Do you know – the grave site of June?

            Do you have a “plot” map of the grave yard – to show who is not buried there yet?

        • Lynn-
          There doesn’t need to be a record of it. Many folks have been cremated and their ashes spread wherever. No county record book exists to tell you where their ashes are located. Records are for conventional burials…not freely spread ashes. Anyone in possession of cremated remains can place them wherever they want…over the fireplace, in the ocean, on a mountainside, in your swimming pool or (if no one is looking) you could dig a small hole over mom’s grave and put them there. Remember Forrest spread Olga’s ashes on the side of Taos Mountain, where the chipmunks and squirrels play…Oh Nooo…here we are back to red, green and black tea again. I think I’ll just stop now. 🙂

          • What for , your on a roll. How many trips have you made…. Like 50…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..Do you see a pattern? =)

          • You’re right, Dal. If there had to be a public record of where ashes are buried or scattered, our oceans are massive graveyards that are impossible to plot. The “Find a Grave” website would be in big trouble. Lol.

            For example, “John Charles Whoever, died 1990. He’s somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean, maybe in the sands of Cuba by now.”

            Lol.

  103. Row , Row , Row, your boat gently down the stream , merrily merrily merrily merrily , your life is but a dream. =)

  104. Completely off topic… I receive over 2000 hits a day and some times 2000 a hour.
    I used to play , Drums , Guitar , Bass. I write from classical approach to modern county ,as well as metal. Since my accident I cant play any more, so I mix music.
    My music profile is brand new and I have 77,000 views in less then 3 weeks I wonder how many views I’ll have in two years……. … Hold on Fenn is communicating to me now mentally… Hold on , the next song is going to be called … hold on he’s talking again , Okay F , it’s Ignorant Horses
    Don’t Drink Water. =) Just tring to be funny is all. Break some ICE.
    Hey maybe that is WWH

  105. As long as we are talking about dreams and songs, I had one last night. I was thinking about the distance between where ff parked his car and where he placed the treasure. When a song came to me. It was Aretha Franklin singing ‘Chain of Fools ‘. I remembered that 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe had been measured by chains. I have to wonder now how far from the car I must go to the treasure by counting the chains in the song. Good question.

  106. For those looking by a River

    Listen to Proud Mary by Tina Turner . “Rolling on a River”

    🙂

    • Great song Amy. Not sure he’d know he’s in there alone though if it’s a river 😉 I think then he would have written the poem….As I have gone “with many other people and I have no clue how many”in there. Doesn’t really roll off your tongue but that song sure does. Thanks for the morning jams.

  107. Drums fingers, thinking ” what else could it be ”
    This morning it came to me why Forrest said to show the poem to a kid.
    Imagination is better that knowledge.

  108. I really hope its not like that,(a kid friendly treasure hunt i mean) because ive been packing around a 42# bag of sand to use as a counterweight to escape the traps forrest set up, when i lift the chest off its boobie trapped pedestal.I hope its in a lost or ancient tomb that frightens the bravest of men from entry, where just a mere mention of the fenn treasure has rhe locals shaking in fear and speaking in hushed tones…lol thats how i hope it is!

    • you forgot the pygmy hordes hiding behind every catis.
      Pifft was that a blowgun dart flitting by my ear?

  109. A lot of ridiculous comments, Imo. Lmao
    It is against the law to spread ashes & to “quietly” dig a corner of a grave. Oh but hey this is FF and a free for all sort of shenanigans. The why’s are of unimportance. Imo one of the reasons the treasure hasn’t been found. FF says what he wants to and changes it around the next time. If you have to try to figure out where FF is coming from…. Hang it up folks. Really just stick to the poem.

  110. Yes I do have info on June. Also, there is not a plot being kept warm for another Fenn in the allusive cemetery.

  111. Lynn a person can say the same thing in many different ways and it is up to the listener to comprehend what was meant. To assume that Forrest hid the chest in a graveyard is akin to picking a long shot winner at the kentucky derby.

    Lets try to clarify something’s, first of all I think Forrest has a certain respect for the dead and would not disturb someones resting place. Esp family.
    Now please tell me who would know when and where someone has spread someone’s ashes? Unless they told others they did it? To the best of my knowledge, it is not ageist the law to do so outside of city limits.

    Now if someone believes they can find a clue to the chest’s location by research burial sites who am I to question the logic of that? Just maybe they found something I missed? Never can tell,,,,,

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