The Nine Clues…….Part Thirtyseven

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This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

THIS PAGE IS NOW CLOSED TO COMMENTS. THE DISCUSSION CONTINUES ON THE CURRENT “NINE CLUES” PAGE.

924 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…….Part Thirtyseven

  1. Lets try a little exercise in an effort to put on Forrest’s hat shall we say?
    On your way to a destination look at objects along the way and name them. Be creative, abstract thought is a plus. When you have time jot them down. You may be surprised to see some doors open.

  2. I will share from my research that there are not just double, but multiple-entendres for some of the clues. What do you consider to be water and when is it warm and when would it halt? Many locations for begin it where warm waters halt. That is the Thrill of this chase. Finding each location of where warm waters halt. Many meanings for each clue. Man, this is a difficult post for me to take part in…. not too much, but too much to divulge… lol

    • Some insights will suffice, after all one never knows when that missing tidbit will hit this blog and crack this search wide open
      Everyone here gives a little and takes a little no harm no foul

    • Water, before it reaches WWWH, is most often considered to be a spring. Such as Aqua Caliente or Ojo Caliente before it reaches a river. The snow line is also considered by some. Waters above 5000ft elevation are thought to be the divider. Or something as simple as a place named for cold water, such as Cold Springs and Aqua Fria.
      I take the most literal and linear approach to solving the poem. No ciphers or double meanings to words. Like reading the poem to a child. I include the other clues and hints with the same approach. But I keep my mind wide open and imagine finding it everywhere, and I always do.

      • Lets see, why not consider “tears” as http://www.halt, they are warm, not hot, and they stop for me when I leave the Angel Fire Vietnam Vets Memorial.

        There is a grove of trees called the “Woods” planted there on the East side and it states on a small sign near by the names of Soldiers, Sailors, Aviators etc who have received medals for bravery, you will see may pennies along the pathway where the woods and those names are planted for those brave souls named and memorialized in the wood. Also Agua Fria Peak is almost due east so is Agua Fria Lake on the edge of Philmont
        Now think out side of the box, Like perhaps a Pyrmaid 45 degrees and 90 degrees take some time to watch this;

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws4O5LOCI68

        So if any one thinks a little outside the box on the architectural structure of ff’s poem and finds multiple meanings let me know at

        tomterrific1947@gmail.com

    • Interesting how we see the poem differently. Some look at it with “multiple-entendres for some of the clues.” Others…
      “take the most literal and linear approach to solving the poem. ”

      Even the comment, show the poem to a child is interpreted with the same mind -set as one sees the poem.

      Just for fun, here’s some definitions of Child:

      From the Glossary of Mountain Men terms and expressions…

      CHILD
      See “Coon”.
      COON
      A raccoon. Also a friendly name early mountain men called each other.
      __________________________________________________

      Other definitions: dictionary

      child (n.)
      Old English cild “fetus, infant, unborn or newly born person,”
      Gothic kilþei “womb,”
      The wider sense “young person before the onset of puberty”
      children (n.)
      plural of child (q.v.)

      Could there have been a reason why the word Child was used instead of the word Children…as ya’ll say fenn is a wordsmith…so to speak. If the Idea was to just get Families out and about, it seems Children would be a good choice, to show the poem to.

      If it was a hint, as we all like to assume fenn That is tossing them out in everything he says, then child may have been one of those hints.

      Or could Warm Waters mean Child birth as one of the definitions of ‘waters’ is Embryonic fluid…

      Dang … this is a lot of thinking before my second cup of coffee.

      • I like your thinking on this level. A child is still learning about this world and meanings of words. So if you look at the poem as if you are still learning will help you decipher the poem. Which supports my research for multiple meanings. But the clues will lead you to a location in which you follow the directions of the poem literally.

        • Would the emergence of life maybe the Mountains themselves? How about the end of one culture and the beginning of another? The old and the new, the transitions of all those from the beginning. The comprehensive knowledge of geography [or the study of….?]
          Could The child be reference to the Parent, Sibling and Child Mountain ranges?

          Just thoughts.

          • Amazing, so many are now thinking outside the box, very impressive!

            Children cry a lot, and are easily entertained, the comment by ff about your grandkids or children might have a lot to do with the location, not just the interp of the clues and hints.

            Grown men (n women) cry when they lose their childhood friends, family or people who made great sacrifices for them, ff is a feeling man who thinks, feeling first and thinking second, proving he is human and figuring out when he is the Joker, trickster, the coyote and not in the ex Aviator, grandfather, gambler,business promoter etc is the key to the meaning of mapping out this poem.

            Try reading his writings without feeling and you lose the meaning, the trick may well be what did he feel and why, some of his poem screams pain and death, as I have gone alone for example and www halt is in that same mode now given what you know about him take it in the canyon of your own feelings to a place too far for most people to (feel) or walk so to speak.

            We would all do much better to take that approach at least in the beginning before we try and geographically map out the TC’s location… just sayin it’s about feelings not complicated math ciphers or codes. Sometimes feeling can be explained in Geography, like a cave, a bridge 700′ above the river, what feeling do you see, hear, smell this may be a better way to read the poem.

            What do you think when you see a waterfall with a crude cemetery where brave men gave their all and for WHAT?

            What would it mean to you and the same applies with ff, he is just better at splanin things but also better at Trickin ya when he takes on the mythical Coyote, the Joker etc. cause he knows life is not all doom and gloom, especially at his Special Place.

            Serving meant a lot to me during Vietnam War, proud to my patriotic chore, but returning HOME was almost as painful as leaving friends in harms way, especially when my Xgi frat in college were know to some as the home of “baby killers”. That can be hard pill to swallow. ff has certainly put some of those feelings in this poem.

  3. So it sounds like a lot of folks understand the poem, the clues and what to look for as a blaze but nothing really is being said.

    Did everything go underground and by email then ?

    • I think a lot of folks *think* they understand the poem, clues, blaze, ect., but NONE of us knows for sure. I think our posts, even if they are prefaced with “IMO”, sometimes come across with a bit of arrogance, as if there were no other possible solution.

      Naturally, I certainly think my solution for the first several clues in the poem & my blaze are solid…..as quicksand perhaps. 🙂

      • I’m in agreement with you on that Clinger…
        Could you please toss me the rope?
        (13′ length with _ knots in it)
        What about the comment f made about “once you figure it out, you will be going there confident with a smile on your face?” imo, Something like that… I don;t have a link to substantiate this statement, but recall it from a while back….

        • I don’t the reference either but I remember that. I think it was more like once you figure out the clues, you will walk right to it with confidence. I believe the smile was when you open the chest.

          • I can certainly help u gentleman with that.

            5Q) From receiving feedback on hunter’s ideas and methods about how to discover the location of the chest, do you feel confident your method in hiding the chest will eventually be understood and the chest be found? Please know, I am not asking for any specifics. My question is more like, do you still feel your poem will lead someone to the treasure?
            The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental. T. S. Eliot said:

            We shall not cease from our exploration
            And at the end of all our exploring
            Will be to arrive where we started
            And know the place for the first time

            Roger that over and over 🙂

          • Hmmm… It might be over on Jenny’s that he said that. If I come across it, I’ll let you know.
            What’s your thoughts on the keyword that’s in the poem? I think maybe it’s needed to be converted to numbers to be utilized at a certain point in the search …

      • IMO, just saying, food for thought.
        I can say with all honesty I have no understanding of the poem…
        Just a lot of rambling thoughts. And if i knew how to make a smile face I would insert it [ ]<—here.

      • I like your asterisks surrounding think. I think that there are so many possibilities that I have still to uncover and am excited about. I think this poem/riddle is much more that just the plain words written. Anyone who is not open to possibilities does himself a disservice. If it is I who sound arrogant, I apologize. When I think I am on to something, I tend to be vague, predicate on divulging too much… Good luck.

    • Never underestimate a searcher . it only takes one. There is a time and place for everything BUT as Forrest (said) confidence is confidence. Somethings should be read slowly.

    • Never underestimate a searcher . it only takes one. There is a time and place for everything BUT as Forrest (said) confidence is confidence. Somethings should be read slowly TTOTC.

      • LOL. Never thought I would be thanking anyone for talking about monkey butts! Thanks James, never would have known there is actually a product for that. 🙂 Forrest could have used that! I wonder does it help if you get poison ivy while squatting in the bushes?

      • That is funny, James. Monkey Butt is the cute name I call my almost 3-year-old daughter. She is daddy’s girl…and she’s a monkey butt.

        And thanks for the reminder, Deb. I forgot what poison ivy looks like. I need a refresher course. I’d hate to be out on The Chase and grab a handful of poison ivy to use as toilet paper. 🙂

      • Yes and the first two clues may not be a physical place to go but rather clues on how to read the poem

        • Or could the first two clues be the only physical place and the rest non physical and why searchers went pass the other seven…

          As well as, the clues being in consecutive order, but do they start in the beginning of the poem?

          Anyone have the rules and regulations “how to read a poem hand – book”? and can I borrow it? Please send to.. confused@poem.clueless.

          Thanks.

      • I’ve long been a opponent of nine sentences = nine clues (9S9C), and I’ve often though that the first clue was WWH. Now, with some of the latest F statements such as only the first two clues have been solved, maybe I should rethink this.

        Consider if 9S9C is in fact true, then the first clue is the entire first stanza & the second stanza then contains two clues.

        From the first stanza one could easily interpret “….and hint of riches new and old” as a nod towards New & Old Mexico and come up with Clue 1:New Mexico.

        Stanza two gives us two of the more talked about lines and most likely clues, namely:Clue 2- WWH and Clue 3 – HOB. (Also remember in a public reading, F pauses after this stanza and makes a comment to the audience that “that sounds like 2 or 3 clues right there”).

        If this is the case, then according to F, the HOB has not been solved….so all the HOBs that have been put forth are incorrect. Not a Little Brown Bat, nor a German Brown Trout, nor Molly Brown’s Beaver are the brown we are in search of.

        Thoughts?

        • Clue 1
          As I have gone alone in there
          And with my treasures bold,
          I can keep my secret where,
          And hint of riches new and old.

          Clue 2
          Begin it where warm waters halt
          And take it in the canyon down,
          Not far, but too far to walk.

          Clue 3
          Put in below the home of Brown.

          Clue 4
          From there it’s no place for the meek,
          The end is ever drawing nigh;
          There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
          Just heavy loads and water high.

          Clue 5
          If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
          Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
          But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
          Just take the chest and go in peace.

          Clue 6
          So why is it that I must go
          And leave my trove for all to seek?

          Clue 7
          The answer I already know,
          I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

          Clue 8
          So hear me all and listen good,
          Your effort will be worth the cold.

          Clue 9
          If you are brave and in the wood
          I give you title to the gold.

        • I see where you are going with this and agree to a point.
          I’m having a problem between Hints and factual Clues. I’m starting to believe that until one is finished with ‘understanding’ the poem, that is when the clues present themselves.
          This may not be a popular way of looking at it… But fenn said [ paraphrasing ] when asked about the clues in a Q&A… That 9 clues was what he ended up with after finishing the poem he didn’t start with them.
          Maybe that’s how we will find them as well.

          That’s just my thought.

          • I understand. Makes sense. I use a common function. Anything that I can relate to the number 9 in a sum of 9 or just find 9 of anything that is common, makes it interesting for me. I feel like within those clues is a map with written direction. Kind of like writing down directions for someone. I have to disregard the true meaning of every word and look past that, as would a kid. If you read that to a five year old and they hear “to cease” the first thing the kid may think of would be “2 C’s”, etc. Just a thought so far.. I recently started this journey. Im pretty far behind lol

          • Chris,

            Your clues are just the nine complete sentences…which well may be correct. I previously discounted this, but my first five clue solutions follow the sentences exactly (not on purpose, it just worked out that way) so I’m waffling on 9S9C.

            I would be happy with this, but according to Forrest, my clue 3 (HOB) can’t be correct. Therefore I’m either a) on the wrong trail, or b) Clue 1 isn’t really a clue and the first Stanza is just an introduction.

            Seeker,

            The know the Q&A you are referring to and it lends support to clues NOT equaling sentences. Forrest, alluded to the fact that he didn’t purposely try to create exactly nine clues, it just happened that way. It might follow that the sentences just happened that way too with no direct correlation.

            Of course, one could say it wrote it and ended up with nine clues, then adjusted his punctuation to make exactly nine sentences. The punctuation I think is a bit odd, this could explain that.

            Confused Clinger

        • Clinger
          Makes me think ” From the first stanza one could easily interpret…and hint of riches new and old’ as a nod towards New and Old Mexico and come up with Clue 1; New Mexico”
          The Spanish called it NUEVO Mexico.I know this means New but if used in that line as …”and hint of riches nuevo.” Does that not sound like new and old.
          I agree with you on NM….

          • onuat,

            The NUEVO is neat. I didn’t know that. I waffle on the New and Old being one of the 9 clues or just an intro. Either way, I’m still firmly in the NM camp.

  4. Begin it at Hebgen lake @ West Yellowstone and up Red canyon. That’s where Forrest and his friend Donnie explored Lewis and Clark. Just a hint…

    • thefly-
      There are a couple of posts from searchers who have examined the area you are talking about…It’s an interesting area…but no chest there so far…

  5. He didn’t say hot water and he didn’t say cold water. So warm water does not go to steam and does not go to ice. I suppose it could evaporate but that just doesn’t seem cowboy enough. Here’s my hot hint–remember those war movies? The Germans at the border crossing had a sign on the gate.

    • Lets see, why not consider “tears” as http://www.halt, they are warm, not hot, and they stop for me when I leave the Angel Fire Vietnam Vets Memorial.

      There is a grove of trees called the “Woods” planted there on the East side and it states on a small sign near by the names of Soldiers, Sailors, Aviators etc who have received medals for bravery, you will see may pennies along the pathway where the woods and those names are planted for those brave souls named and memorialized in the wood. Also Agua Fria Peak is almost due east so is Agua Fria Lake on the edge of Philmont
      Now think out side of the box, Like perhaps a Pyrmaid 45 degrees and 90 degrees take some time to watch this;

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws4O5LOCI68

      So if any one thinks a little outside the box on the architectural structure of ff’s poem and finds multiple meanings let me know at

      tomterrific1947@gmail.com

        • lol,since I have your attention dal, do you know anything about metered air and Skippy? Or along those lines? I don’t think it’s anything big but found something in book. Thanks

          • Charlie-
            I don’t think I’ve ever heard of metered air..

            I am aware of metered oxygen when mixing gases for nitrox diving…
            Skippy surely would have been familiar with and maybe even adept at mixed gas diving.

            But “metered air” is an odd term to me…
            I don’t know what it refers to…

      • and sorry Mike if that was taken as sarcastic, was not meant to be. That, to me, is actually a good hint.

        • dal, I was just browsing the book and looked at his school pic and went on a wild goose chase. where he names: me,edard,pat,kacir,skippy. I break that down to- (meedard=metered) (‘p’ at ‘k’) (‘a’ see ir) skippy=
          metered pk air skippy. letter values for me has pk=4. so, metered for air skippy. I figured 90 feet = 27.432 meters. 90=9.9.
          9+0=9, 9+9=18,1+8=9, so you have 9=9. thought skippy might have something to do with 9, or x. lol, but now I confused myself. I’ll work on my delivery before I post next time.

  6. The paragraph when ff talks about his dream of Capt Kidd etc, I think is just to throw us off. It’s a dream and its not real, and so is the treasure not being in Yellowstone (Gardiner). However though, has anyone tried to connect ff to Ted Turner and the Vermejo Park Ranch? or Jane Fonda? Ted is a big activist for wildlife preservation and Jane was a an activist for the War. Also a dancer (Dancing with the Stars). Who knows. I have so many crazy ideas. Also on the Ranch, there is an old Ghost Town called Gardiner, that used to be a big spot for coal. 590,000 acres is a big spot to hide a 10×10 chest. This is just one small idea that I have. 🙂

    • Interesting idea but that doesnt fit the idea of for all to seek. Its a hunting ranch, private and pricey. I dont think that sounds like the place for children or a redneck who is unemployed?
      They specify, guided tours.

    • Captain Kidd and the dream interpreted; He dreamed he was Captain Kidd on Gardiners Island, well Gardiners Island is the only existing Land Grant in the US from the British Crown.

      Kidd sounds like Kit and guess where his museum is on the Santa Fe Trail and on a former land Grant, part Maxwell and part Mora, sort of like Moreno or Brown.

      Would any one try a count of how many Land Grants exist n the State of New Mexico north of Santa Fe and even into Colorado?

      The laws there are unique and the United States laws do not all apply like right of salvage etc or artifacts, Treasure Chest etc.

      I anyone wants to discuss this line of thought or the poem my email is

      tomterrific1947@gmail.com

        • Think for a moment how a young child 2-5 yrs would most likely pronounce Skippy. S is hard for little ones to form so it could be Kipp which is the mirror image of Kidd. Just a guess at possible links to Captain Kidd or Captain Kipp (skippy)

          Also WM
          MW mirror images could be relevant on trails.

          It’s my opinion that doubles, twins, equalities, opposites, +/-
          poles, and quadrants all play a part in finding the chest.
          Hope that helps someone 🙂

          • How about that both Skippy and doubles play a part? I don’t know how much, but the postmarks for My Brother Being Skippy and Gold and more are the same date. They’re the only two with that date.

            I am, as you can see by my recent posts, stuck on postmarks…this week.

            I’m also writing a new poem called “A Typical 30 minute block of researching the poem from an ADD viewpoint.”

            It’s about the treasure…and squirrels, and what’s for dinner. 🙂

          • Oh, Spallies, even with BBQ sauce, I’m not sure I could eat squirrel. Now, 42’s BBQ brisket is another story.
            I may show up on her doorstep with a smile and a big plate outstretched in my hands. 🙂

          • Ribs are for the BBQ, squirrels are for fryin’ or dumplins. My wife and I were just having this discussion the other day. More accurately we were discussing why many people freak out when thinking about eating squirrel.

            Both of us grew up eating squirrel. In my house it wasn’t served as often as chicken or pork, but it was close to being a staple food source during the fall season. (I hunted a lot in fall, not so much in spring season – too many ticks on the squirrel)

            We came to the conclusion that it was most likely the association with the rat. I believe the squirrel is considered a rodent as well, but even if it isn’t, it suffers by comparison nonetheless. I’ve heard it said that a squirrel is just a rat with a bushy tail and a better PR campaign. The squirrel must not care who it is, it just cares who we think it is.

            🙂

      • this is a good line of thought Tom and you are going in the right direction. Why do I think that? because its played a big part of my solve that I have been nursing for a long time.

        • Cloud cover, with Forrest and Skippy’s father being unrelenting and stern, a natural, protective, strong brotherly bond between the boys would have formed. I’ll bet they covered for each other and made little boy vows of brotherhood to live by which lasted for a lifetime and influenced where Forrest plans to rest and subsequently hid his treasure.

          • Mindy & Spallies, the secret to great brisket is soaked in Dr. Pepper and liquid pecan smoke with a touch is maple syrup – then all night in the oven on 250. Even porcupine would taste good cooked this way!

          • Thanks 42 I have not made brisket i a long time but that sounds really good…:) Now to find some liquid pecan smoke??? Is that a Texas thing?

    • Many have gravitated tot the notion that FF’s story links to Yellowstone. The fact is Capt Kidd actually did hide a treasure there with permission from the land owner in 1699. The interesting point of all of this is that it was burried on private land, someone else’s private land. That is the part of this story no one has yet to focused on. Is this a hint the treasure is buried on private land?

      • that’s good Wolf, serious, I think it’s a fine line. If not, pretty close, imo. He has said something about land owned by the american people but tended by the bureau of land management. I think that was in the book about the bells he buried or something like that.

        • In regards to the TC being hidden on private property, I don’t think Forrest would take kindly to uninvited people going out on his personal land and running all around. There are millions of acres of public land in the Rockies, ample room to hid the Chest. I think Forrest has a lot respect for a person’s personal property.

      • Wolf, Land Grants like Gardiners Island, Mora, Maxwell etc are private land and are owned by the heirs, and developed by investors, most can be sold in part or parcel. The problem is the governance and laws are a set aside like Indian Reservations, but are not autonomous nations like my tribe, Creek Nation, not many grants exactly alike but the laws are all similar.

        Philmont Scout ranch was carved out of that type of tract, a land grant.

        I have purchase land in land grants and my only problem after the board (heirs) sign of on the sale is “Title Insurance” but since I am in the business of insurance I was able to acquire it. Now do not flood me with questions all, just stay on point that Land Grants have differences from say Natl park, federal Land BLM etc see my comments earlier.

        Tom

        • All great info… but I believe that the whole point is moot if the “approach” taken is planned out before hand. Carefully worded IMO…

      • Good comments by all on land ownership. Two points come to mind. All land is owned by someone, thus finding treasure on it can and likely will be contested by someone. The question is do you want to go up against an ego driven Ranger Rick with billions of dollars of government (your) money to defend the fact that fact the treasure is theirs because it is on “their” land, or would you rather go against someone with limited funds.

        Before you answer, consider the fact of finding things on other peoples property that is not originally the land owner’s is governed by Common Law – which simply states the finder will be ruled the rightful owneras long as they do not trespass. (see my comments in the legal ponderings section http://dalneitzel.com/2013/08/28/legal-ponderings/#comment-37491 )

        One may be the rightful owner but if they do not have the funds to take on a principle based Goliath to prove it in court; what good is the law?

        It would be much easier to reason or make a deal with a smaller entity like a private person or company. IMO

        I once tried to reason all of this land ownership issue and realized one can’t make assumptions without all of the information – ie ruling out anything can ensure you will be eternally wrong if you make a bad assumption.

        So I have two things to ponder:
        1) What if you ignored land ownership and just followed the clues and it lead 100% to a place that was owned by a private entity? Do you say no it can’t be there because it is private land or do you make get permission to go onto the land? Note common law rules on your side if one does not trespass.

        2) Since all land is owned by somebody, to avoid the legal perspective, maybe the treasure is NOT “on land” at all. Maybe FF has figured away to not be “on or in land” and one just has to figure that out. Can anyone think of how that might be done? The answer maybe in the clues.

        The Wolf

    • Chistophon, I believe you will find ties that bind TT And FF both in nm and mt through conservation and f’s gallery days. There may be a couple of subtle hints to TT in TTOTC (in my opinion.)

      • I believe him as they were not deliberately put in the book to aid the seeker, but you can recognize them. They are very small hints, like just buzz words, that you wouldn’t normally hear.

      • Ha!! That’s great g o g! One of my all time favorite songs! Saw Eagles on my 25th bday…long ago…! Good times!

        • I got to see them in Berlin Germany in 2001, their 30th anniversary tour, it was an awesome show. I was right by the stage. I thought I was going to get to save Joe Walsh. It was a very hot July evening, and Joe was sweating it out on stage and I was only 20′ away with no one between me and him. If he collapsed because of the heat, I was ready to jump on stage and save him.

      • Too true Goofy! We all thought in the beginning that solving that poem just couldn’t be that hard. Now years later, we’re still at it! 🙂

        Welcome discoverer!

  7. Mr. Fenn said, anyone that can’t get the first clue, should just stay home and play canasta. How hard can it be?

    • James, the funny thing about that comment, now that we know, is that you need all of the clues to know if the cake is gonna come out right. You won’t know that you should stay home until after searching! If you don’t find the chest does that automatically mean you’re wrong about the first clue? This is what drives searchers to believe that there is a code to break and that in the end the location will be spelled out. I don’t think that way, but what do I know.

  8. Wow! Been away from the chase for a mere four days and blown up with notifications!
    Seems as if the chase got fast forwarded!

  9. I’m new here and don’t know if this has ever been mentioned or not. Someone said that there wasn’t a Brown family but there is. His name is Darien Brown and he has a ranch up around Cimarron. Tim Keller photography.com did an article in I believe SW Magazine about him. The family has been there for a long time. Hope this helps someone. No-one else will say anything,their too tight lipped.

    • Most everyone tossed ideas around a couple years ago. Getting ridiculed for theories puts a damper on future posts.

      • Yes it does DP. Maybe thats why they whisper?
        Lots of good ideas in todays posts. Sometimes I get suprised at how much people are willing to share.

    • Great job…..
      Yes I read a story about that family.. A 10,000 acre cattle ranch I think ..I believe they were one of the first families who settle there and have been there ever since. I found them by looking up old land pots in the 1800’s … Cool.. Thanks Dewey , I will take a look…

      • I seem to recall that Leroy Brown tried to “put in below” another man’s wife and discovered the hard way that he’d never get his hands on THAT treasure! LOL! 🙂

  10. I can keep my secret where warm waters halt.
    And hint (a whisper) of treasures (accumulations) new and old

  11. I Had a girl friend for a few years that was from Cimarron NM. That is a beautiful and interesting place. The fishing is good and fun up the canyon. Wagon Mound is close to there to. Lots of treasure stories from around that area.. That girl friend was a spit fire of a person and just ornery to the bone but fun to be around. Mary Treasa Turner whew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  12. Having lunch today at Bodacious it’s a Barbcue place
    2 men beside me are talking about Fly Fishing in Colorado lol, Men

  13. I’d say more like an attempted insult. LOL I don’t read 5% of the posts so if I missed that one, life goes on.

    Since I’m on my hot hints, here’s another one: Not far as the crow flies.

  14. Okay, this week, it’s postmarks for me. I’m working on them now. Listing them in order by year, by month, by day of the week and by day of the month.

    I’m even considering the way some of the D’s look like C’s, and why 039 is faintly marked on some, and why PM is added to the last chapter about Peggy.

    I’m also curious as to why Skippy’s postmark is on the right.

    I’ve also thought about the edges…what is contained WITHIN the edges of the postmarks…not just the date, day and year…some of the text that goes up in within the boundary. Take them out and put them together and see what you come up with. In particular, look at the last three “words.”

    I’ve also taken the letters outside the lines and put them together. But the letters inside are making more sense, although the words I get don’t immediately seem connected to the chase at all and even seem a little morbid.

    • Mindy, Are you going by most common category filter acronyms only, or most common, or slang? Lots to look at imo.
      i.e.. for page 140 “SA”?

    • Mindy,

      Not to dissuade you, but I believe reading a few years ago that Forrest said that there weren’t any clues in the post marks. It may have been about the same time he said that he just let an artist do the drawings without his help/direction. (Someone correct me if I’m wrong or delusional- it happens)

      Even without that reference, I tend to discount the postmarks for the following reason. I think it would be difficult for Forrest to give direction to an artist and publisher about what information needs to be on these postmarks without alerting them to the fact that there is a hint or clue in there. Let’s say when he proofs the artwork he sees a date that is wrong, or something else that seems very innocuous. His effort to make sure this one tiny seemingly trivial piece of information is changed would send up flags to whoever is associated with it. I don’t think he would want to risk that or trouble with trying to manage those problems. The same can be said of the pictures in TTOTC as well.

      The text however is easy for him to completely control without working with anyone and he can get it just right….before he sends the manuscript.

      The above changes if in fact that Forrest did all the artwork layout and created all the postmarks by himself and specified where they went in TTOTC, but my understanding is that he delegated that to an outside artist.

      • Clinger, that fits with my recollection as well. Couldn’t give a source location. Chris Yates used to be an excellent resource for that sort of thing. I for one miss him.

        You can’t correct all of the erroneous “clues” everyone is chasing. So, let them have their thrill. 🙂

        Many of us have at least a thousand hours of research, just as many don’t want to spend the time reading. Ce’ la vie!

        • Yes, please let me keep the thrill of chasing “erroneous” clues. It’s fun!

          And who knows? Maybe what I post here is only the tip (or the foundation?) of what I really know (no?).

          Some people say I have the best poker face. Some might say I have the worst. One thing I know is that I don’t lay ALL my cards on the table. 😉

          • 🙂 most on here don’t…….It’s getting more tight lipped every day..IMO
            Gotta give Victor credit for that… At least he is putting his two cents in…. Ideas come from all angles , Some just need the ” Right ” one…. good luck to ya

  15. Fly fisherman from Texas always pack a pimento cheese sandwich & pineapple pie. Or is only the ones from W Tx?

    • Fly fishermen from Wyoming pack a cheese sandwich too. My dad liked cheese and jam. Said it didn’t spoil or taste fishy.

  16. Hi Mindy, I’m also interested in the post marks and found a few hints to locations, But WHERE did you find a Magnifying glass with high enough power to read the post marks.

    • Lia,
      My son is a little scientific genius. We have magnifying glasses all over the house. Lol. Strong ones, too.

    • hi lia. amazon has a decent list of magnifying glasses but your best bet would you look under lapidary supply you’ll find a whole myriad of magnifying glasses etc.

      • I have a patient with macular degeneration who uses a special circular magnifying glass she holds right up to her eye. She said it cost $3000.

        She used it to look at the picture I took of Maroon Bells. Which she gushed over, although probably only to make me feel good. Lol.

        The cool thing is that she’s a very cool lady. I think she’s about 90, looks about 60. She likes to talk about my love life, of which I have none. She has good advice only learned from experience.

        And the really cool thing is that she’s an award winning photographer, and despite her macular degeneration and age, she’s still out in nature, taking pictures.

      • Jdig, mindy, thanks for magnifier tips. Let’s put Forrest under the scope and get a closer
        L OO K 🙂

        • My wife and I had three daughters all 2 years apart, Number four came 15 years latter in ’97, a real blessing just as the first three. First granddaughter came 10 months after our forth daughter. Yes grand-kids are really GREAT, a total of 15 now.

  17. The problem with serious thinkers is that it is a competition not a.cooperation. I will only advance.this quote from Terry Pratchet
    “Words resemble fish in that some specialized ones can survive only in a kind of reef, where their curious shapes and usages are protected from the hurly-burley of the open sea”.
    Mr. Fenn plays with words.

  18. Not far, but too far to walk

    Knot far = 1.15 miles, so too (two) far would be 2.3 miles.

    Could be…

  19. Hi , all . Hope every one is staying warm.

    I would like to ask the opinion of everyone who is in this to win it.

    I have herd ” Don’t mess with the Poem ”
    Dose that constitute :
    1. Ciphers (Code)
    2. Moving the Stanza and words around to fit
    in any of our understanding, dose that cause tampering?
    3. Adding numbers or changing the words to numbers.
    4. Making designs with words and or numbers to fit the poem
    5. or relation of meanings under the assumption knowing that all
    we needed was the poem?

    I’m tiring to organize my thinking of what is priority of Rules verses clues

    Well what do you all think?

    • I think he said he doesn’t mislead, so my answer is that it wouldn’t be a code or cipher, because of what he said and if he said don’t mess with the poem, then I think mess would cover moving anything. That’s what I think. I think people can do that and come up with solutions they think are right and feel so absolute about them that they feel it has to be right.

      • If every word and its place is intentional and the poem’s structure is architectural then theoretically you cant move “stones”/words or the structure caves in. However I think you can twist the words a bit with adjacent words within each line or level without a cave in.
        Imo you can interchange many meanings for each word including numbers for words if that number is the word (4 for, fore, four, b4ere) additionally, I ‘think’ word pictographs work.
        Personally I believe the blue print for the structure is different than expected, and Forrest has layers we may never understand unless his notes are published. Victor’s honeycomb may be a similar example of a layer Forrest played with during 10 years of building the poem. Then he considered people like me would never get a code and dumbed down a bit so I could play too 😉

        • I love Victors Code understanding , we are a lot alike in that since. I use Physics when running codes by Definition using PIS* words or old English translation .

          But there is one big whole in this theory IMO.
          ” Treasures New and Old ” Honey is not a New treasure, as it has been being used from the Begging of time , and is still being used. This to me if it were Honey the understanding would maybe mean Old to New . But again Honey is no New Treasure. At least IMO
          Oh, I’m not saying Victor is wrong , or his theory is bad. But , I do not feel Fenn Studied this type of concept unless he was a 33 degree Mason..
          Doesn’t mean he didn’t hide it in a Bee hive…..

          Also in Cryptology I think Victor would agree with me on this, you have what is called a caller and a receiver and is used in Poem code. This is a old why to hide things inside words. It uses a 5 letter word to unlock and crack the code and is a very old method. But most codes are still the same, one side can only send the code not read it , while the other can only read it and can’t send . This is a cypher ring and was used during wars with England and was used by the C.I.A. for along time. I hope this helps …
          Just trying to shad some light ..

          Thanks

  20. All,
    After reading the recent posts, I have two comments.
    IMO, it doesn’t make sense to look at the 9 sentences as the 9 clues.
    Otherwise, solving clues 1 thru 5 would be sufficient to find TC.
    Also, IMO, f meant it when he said “don’t mess with the poem.”
    It may not be helpful to change spellings, or make other changes.
    (F makes enough spelling changes on his own.)
    All IMO, and of course, I don’t have the chest yet.
    The thinking and discussions on the blog sound great!
    Geoff

    • Yes, don’t mess with the poem because it is associated with structure. The chest is not associated with a structure. The chest is not the poem.

      • I believe he (FF) said treasure, not chest. It might make a difference in some solves. At least that’s what the cheat sheet says.

        • Yes, I think it works either way. Now we have poem, treasure and chest. On another note, I don’t think the poem is about him. It is a female. It is a poem about her. I have had my sites on this person for a year now. Anyway, Notice the fade in some of his pictures. I was thinking those are hits that the chest is nearby or closely related. The glow from the gold. Just my opinion.

          • I am very surprised no one has identified my avatar. I verified f has been in within 9 feet. I took this as a hint about the boy and pie story. Well heading down to New Mexico. It will give me time to think.

          • So pie is the mathematical symbol?

            Baffles me all the people showing their cards(good poker play?) to help someone else find it. Not talking about you Eugene. Talking about the in depth solutions that I know others obviously have motive to want to see and so therefore support.

          • So what do you think Mark? A new scrapbook…hmmm who is the joker now.

            Anyway, I think I will go up to the BASEMENT and CHECK IN and there is something I need to read again. So lets have some fun. What do you think?

          • Yep, didn’t see that one coming. But now, I am wondering how the Romans did decimals, or if they had decimals. Guess I have to do some reading now also.

          • Yup Mark , Forrest sees me coming. I had a good day understanding the poem. I had previously had solid ideas what the key word in the poem was. Then I found another photo from one of my past trips. I have thousands of photos and videos. In the photo there is a blaze in a tree with an F. The top part was hidden. I would say it is around 3 feet in length. I will post a picture in a few. I can only post the bottom half because it might revel the location. It is interesting how he starts off with the poem with “As I” but I think he had too start off with those words. Anyway, I will have to use Fireworks to post the photo as my Avatar. Be right back

          • Mark Great question did the Romans have decimals??? They must have right??? Off to the google thingy… Let us know what you find and I will let you know if I find anything on it…

  21. Geoff,
    I agree with the spelling part as it changes the meaning of the original word. But some may use the Line for the poem ” So hear me all and listen good” as a hint to hear a word or another use of a word. I don’t care for that, but at this point in time with the chase, anything is usable…

    You said; “it doesn’t make sense to look at the 9 sentences as the 9 clues.
    Otherwise, solving clues 1 thru 5 would be sufficient to find TC.”

    OK, But using the 9 sentences uses the entire poem… as fenn has stated, every word was deliberate. Ending the hunt at stanza five doesn’t make sense to me. If that were true, stanza 6 would not be needed or disregarded. or am I reading your comment wrong?

  22. Seeker, et al,
    Good points!
    To clarify, I see the poem (IMO) as containing 9 clues in consecutive order, plus perhaps a dozen additional hints that don’t appear to be in consecutive order.
    For example, I see “gone alone”, “listen good”, and “in the wood” as useful hints.
    (For a particular example, because I wasn’t “in the wood” that day, one of my searches was spent (IMO) looking in the wrong place.)
    Happy planning and searching, everyone–I’m already checking the weather forecasts!
    Geoff

    • Hey Geoff, I have to agree with seeker. Forrest has also said this,”It is fun to arrange words in such a way that you have to smile at the end of a sentence.” So there may be a fine line as to what can be taken as messing with the poem and doing what the poem instructs.As for the 9 clues, I think you need to solve the whole poem to actually get the 9 clues, my opinion of course but on the line of what Seeker is somewhat saying.
      As for me, having 5 clues would only give one of the coordinates, not both, so I would disagree with being able to find the chest with 5 clues.imo…
      As far as consecutive order of the clues, I see asking Forest that and him replying,” yes, in consecutive order, the first clue is first, second is second, third is third, and so on.( no, have not asked him, just imagine him saying something like that)
      There are many hints all over the place, way more than a dozen in my opinion, but they basically just back up the clues and the “hest”. (chest= see hest). Geydelkon is right, the chest is not the poem, the chest is your “directive”, and your directive is not associated with a structure, but the poem is. all my opinion of course.

  23. Ok, more about postmarks. I’ve learned that postmarks don’t contain spelled out days of the week, so Forrest’s postmarks are an “aberration.” Why does he use the days of the week, then? In my opinion, those days are important. If we can figure out what 3 strings are added each day, maybe we can learn something useful.

    I think when Forret says “Think about it…” In TTOTC, it could be important info. He says that when he says that he’s spent three years of Mondays asleep (or something like that).

    And a note about something else I’ve been thinking about…what if he hid the chest in a gold (or other) mine, that he happens to own? So, what if the blaze is Forrest’s smile? Then look quickly down, and in his hands is the title to that mine, and the gold? That may be way off (prob is), but just a thought.

    All I know is that I wake up way too early…lol

    • Another interesting postmark fact… The Roman numerals IV don’t mean 4 or the fourth month…they mean June. I was used for J and V for U.

      • postmarks… these are my 2 cents.

        1. Rock Mountain Beacon Arrows (2 or 3 remain in our search area)

        or

        2. Bert Mooney- his history or the airport south of Butte, Montana. (He’s the first person to fly mail into Yellowstone).

        IMO we’re not supposed to study every number in the book. But I think the postmarks are meaningful- why, i’m not sure. time, memory, place, pilots, nostalgia.

    • ditto, I like the postmark thing though. wondering why the two that are on odd pages, pg 51, pg.127, have Friday, the 5th, and a date that looks like 888. (24?, x?) pictures of , Skippy(pg51), and chest(pg127). will look into more at work:)

  24. Anyone know what the Spanish word is that F happened to know in Ms Fords class? I have an idea, but just wondering if it has ever been mentioned.
    🙂

  25. Hi Brand new here,

    I want to start a thread/line on a clue that was not part of the original 9.

    What’s the best way to do that?

    I would like feedback on one particular word on one Fenn’s later clues.

    Where is the best place to discuss that?

    -Pantz

    • LOL I like you inthechaseto. That’s so funny. I agree. Forrest has a perfect smile. He’s saying shush up I think…or maybe I’m wrong and he invested in Colgate and is hoping his star power will reap some more millions. One of those HAS to be right….and I’m betting on your banana theory.

  26. I have been trying to figure out the post marks too. I ignorantly gave up a while back when frustration got the best of me. I think its kind of like a simple anagram but the words aren’t spelled correctly so I am assuming its a like a phonetic anagram. I feel like an idiot for not being able to figure it out though. I am sure most of you already have. EIther way its nice when people tell Kevin to put on a pink tutu. Good people out there!

    • I seldom post on here but I’m the Kevin with a capital K. I found Michael D.’s treasure (pink tutu treasure) that he hid in the Dolores river canyon. He posted a poem on the poetry thread and I solved it and found his treasure. I took most of the things from his treasure and added some things and hid it again in a different spot. I posted a poem (very quickly and poorly written) that leads to the location. It is on the poetry thread as a reply to Michael D.

    • Somewhere (in a video, I think), ff explains that the person helping him with page layout thought the postmarks would look good. They don’t hold any clues, if I remember correctly.

  27. I wonder about Forrest’s comment about two people being within 500 feet. Do you think that they were at the blaze but that the treasure is 500 ft away or were they 500 ft from the blaze?? Anyone have thoughts?

    • things are pretty warm these days. Warm enought to melt a snow capp-ed mountn BUT baby it’s cold in u.s. Throw some more wood on the fire don’t wsnt accidentally brn the huose down.

      • I was playing a game of marbles on the step a sudden wind came up and blew a couple of the marbles into the snow, thankfully I was able to safely recover them.

        Stay positive, stay upbeat, stay vigilant!

    • Not Odsessed – I could only guess at the 500ft question, and you are most likely correct. Here are a couple other guesses:

      1. The tc lays in wait approx 500ft from a main road that F knows searchers travel.
      2. Some of F’s family members have searched and not known they were within 500 ft
      3. A solution sent to F showed someone w/in 500 ft
      On a map.

      • I don’t think Forrest IMO would answer or hint just to a solution sent to him, I would imagine that they might have had photos or something showing they were there in order for him to confirm the 500 feet statement

    • IMHO 500ft from the chest. I think he knows that’s what was being asked and he answered it with little or no subterfuge.

  28. I know this is off topic but I would like to share this one more time
    For my Pops…..I’m no poet so …

    “What Do you See”

    As I gaze into that Dark Place
    Why Do I see, you looking Back at me?

    As you gaze your eye’s Shown onto me,
    What is it you see, Your Son a Man Complete?
    Or a space a void of what used to be ?

    I see , I see , you still looking at me ,
    But Dad, what do you see,
    A boy of 8 swinging at a tee,
    Who cut the grass while you smile at me.

    Dad what do you see,
    When you thought me to fish
    And put your arm around me,

    But Dad , what do you see,
    Your son at 17 trying to fill your feet?

    Dad , Dad what do you see ?
    I’m a man now , can’t you see?

    Why Dad do you stair at me
    I’m of 38 when you left me.
    But Dad I love you can’t you see,
    No,I love you Please!

    Dad I see why you are looking at me ,
    Cause you loved me , More then I could see,
    And makes me now even fall to my knee,
    As I put your sandals on to feel your feet.

    Dad! To tell you I love you and now I see
    I have always been the Man you wanted me to be.
    I miss you Daddy , I see
    I was with you till the End, just like you asked me.
    To now fill the sandals that you left me , and feel your feet ,
    Reminds me How much you Really Loved me .
    I miss you Dad, From ME.

    In loving Memory Of Sgt. John Dantuono 1950-2010
    My Best Friend
    By , Mike or Mr.D

    • Hi Mike or Mr D.

      I saw your beautiful poem this morning and wanted to comment but it honestly made my heart ache a bit so I kept moving. It’s really touching you keep him in your heart.

      Thanks for sharing…

      • Thanks spallies.

        Sorry , about that. It wasn’t my intention, but words that were stuck in my heart for a long time . The reason for the Poem is that Dal gave me a understanding that allowed me to get the words unstuck. Again Dal, I really appreciate every kind word you shared by mail with me Sir, and I wanted everyone to see how Awesome a Guy you are. Thanks’ for reminding me , and showing me what was missing.

        • Wow Mike –

          How you pulled at my heart strings with that one – as I related it to my Dad – whom I miss so much – being with him till the end too.

          It’s so appropriate for the poem – as we all know how much Forrest’s Father meant to him.

          I feel it will take this deep understanding to put a very real solve together.

          Best of Luck to You.

          • Thank you .. I’m happy you can relate to this, and I thank you for your kind words.
            Best to you also…. =)

    • Mike……….If anyone reads this tribute to you Dad and doesn’t feel the emotion in you as the read ….. Then they aren’t human…. Speachless Mike…… Totally SPEACHLESS… I know your Dad is watching and very proud……

    • Thanks Dal. I sure enjoyed Richard Saunier’s thoughts on sence of place. Forrest is blessed with a great bunch of guys like you and Richard who have a sense of him and are excellent writers.

  29. I think the treasure is somewhere in Manby Hot Springs, but cannot solve all clues. Does anyone agree , or disagree? RC

    • RC I have looked into that area as well… The clues get me by the Hot Springs… but then I can’t solve the rest of the clues… I guess I will just keep trying…

    • RC

      You’ve said you thought the treasure was is in The Pecos Wilderness and at Manby Springs, …..so which is it? There has been so many people search that “springs” area, myself included once upon a time, …..if it were there I would think someone would have at least solved more than the first two clues after all this time. The fact no one has found it there or has sent him anything more than what he said he knows, is significant that it is probably NOT the correct area. I mean, that was one of the first places most people looked, wasn’t it? Why? Because it would be simple to put it together there. Too simple. When I went there, I don’t think there was a spot that someone hadn’t been. And as busy as that place is, how would have gotten it down there or even gone there, …..without someone seeing him? And where would you start – at the top or the bottom? I gave up on that place a long time ago, about the same time I stopped using a Dam as a starting reference. I just think it would have been found already if that was the spot. But hey, you do what you gotta do. Good luck. 🙂 I hope that isn’t your only search area though.

      I’m just wondering why you consistently repeat talking about this place though? I mean, almost every time I see your post, you mention it. If you truly believed it was there, why would you keep mentioning it? Are you not searching for it yourself? And if you are, then what’s your angle in constantly pushing this spot? Do you want some kind of recognition for WHAT you think is the correct place, or are you just trying to get people there for some other reason? I just think it is very strange!!

      • Is The Rio Grande Gorge Recreational Area/Monument even part of The Rocky Mountains? As a Monument, could you even keep anything found there? 🙂

  30. Interesting read. There are so many places that are impeccable north of Sante Fe. Is the treasure a real place or just a mental sense? Unfortunately I have no idea what is going on anymore? I will find it though, I hope!!!! Maybe the place is only found in death?

  31. I have a question. If the treasure is hidden in the Rockies, does that mean it is in the Rockies? Please do not get upset if this is not a valid question. Do we know the treasure is physically in the Rockies? Is hidden, hidden from view, or knowledge? RC

      • Alright Goofy. So, is he saying the treasure is somewhere within ALL of that highlighted area or just in the Rocky Mountain Area? Because not everything on that map is part of the Rocky Mountains. But it has ROCKY MOUNTAINS written all the way across it, so I would take it as it includes ALL of it. Right. 🙂

        Doesn’t really matter though. Because in my theory, it IS in the stony, bouldery, mountains. 🙂

        Just thoughts……….

        • Please take it easy on us peons Goofy!! I’m sure this all mind boggles you that we are even here. 🙂 Hey, but you’re here too……….

          • Good grief Goofy……….do you guys do any research at all?

            Why don’t you figure it out, since it seems you have all the answers.

          • No Suzie I don’t have all the answers; if I did I would have the chest. So tell us what part of the map you feel is erroneous.

            The map has been discussed thoroughly before but we might as well do it again.

            @Chris, I don’t recall anyone pointing out what part of the map is not in the Rockies. What part is not in the Rockies; I’ll look it up again and stand corrected if you are right.

    • my other reply below was in answer to your question RC

      i think you already know f said the treasure was hidden in the Rockies and thats why you said “if the treasure is hidden in the Rockies …”

      so your question must be more of a metaphysical one no?

      or maybe a hologram could come into play here. a hologram of the chest is in the Rockies somewhere , but physically the chest is not.

  32. we dont know if the treasure is in the Rockies. only way to know for sure is by finding it. when i find the treasure i will let you know if it was in the Rockies or not

  33. It is my opinion that Mr. Fenn would like all to search out the unknown for the unknown. I don’t believe his or Indulgence’s final resting place would be somewhere that is currently frequented maybe even some place that has been forgotten…….

  34. Hi All , Happy Week End!!!!!!!!!!

    I wanted to post the First lines of the poem . Which I feel could be a very important part of the Solve. May not , But I need to test my logic. Any answer will
    be listen to, and most likely I wont answer the posts . Only so I can see if my train of thought is off or on . Either way It strengthens my mind and that is good enough for me. If my periods and comma’s are in the wrong place it is due to the amount of ink I have put on the page and didn’t see them any more. My book looks like my old bible. Well studied and marked up. Please correct me if they are.

    ” As I have gone alone in there ,
    And with my treasures bold,
    I can keep my secret where ,
    And hint of riches new and old ”

    Line 1 explains it’s self I think pretty well…
    Line 2 “Treasures” This could be a couple different things.
    Popular demand say’s his treasures, my understanding is his mind.
    Line 3 Keep my secret where, say’s to me … Where do I keep my secret?
    A question to the searcher – where do I keep my secret
    Line 4 ” And hint of riches new and old ”

    Line 3-4 say’s to me Where do I keep my secret , and hint of riches new and old ”

    This is where my head popped up to listen to what Forrest is trying to tell us through his poem.

    So, is he hinting his secret is where riches new and old are? What do you all think … Please feel free to answer the way you see it . I don’t Judge so all will help me in my Logic . Thanks Stay Warm….It’s cold in Tampa tonight…

    • Not that cold here in Tampa, I didnt see any politician with his hands in his own pockets 🙂

    • IMO Line one means where he took the TC by himself.
      Line 2 means taking the TC without hesitation
      Line 3 Because he went in alone he can keep the place
      where the TC is hidden a secret
      Line 4 I think that “and hint” is talking about the poem,
      it gives hints to where the treasure is hidden

    • I have started to look at the poem from a different angle, putting emphasis on the word “and”.

      IMO, line one and two could go together. The first is past tense and the second is present.

      He’s been there without the chest and now he returns with the chest. example – As I have gone alone in there, and with my loyal dog….

      In my humble opinion, anyway.

      WWWH can be looked at in the same way. It is where WWWH IT and the warm waters take IT in the canyon down.

      Scott

  35. Mike/Mr. D – i think at the start of my researching and searching I assumed ff meant he went alone to the hiding place with a chest full of gold. I still hope he did that. I know Dal hopes he did that! but like you believe there could be deeper levels of thought to his poem.

    Regarding secrets: If you mention secrets to me I would immediately interpret from personal experience, that I go alone into my thoughts and keep my secrets hidden in my heart or mind.

    Regarding treasures: Most of my thoughts or memories would not be considered treasures to anyone else, but I believe Forrest Fenn could be very bright and many people would consider his thoughts, stories, and hidden knowledge to be treasures. Each of us have hidden recesses in the corners of our heart which grant shelter to intimately personal thoughts we take to our grave.

  36. Are the clues contiguous physically, or just in the poem, or both? I cannot find any reference. Anybody? RC

      • contiguous; sharing a common border; touching; being in actual contact.

        If there is a reference to the clues contiguous physically, or just in the poem, or both…

        I like to see that reference. I have heard the clues are in consecutive order, Heard them needed to be follow precisely, But Physically bordering or touching or having contact in any way, is a knew one on me.

        • There is a joke there. He asked two opposite questions, I provided a single “yes” answer. To which did I answer yes? Neither. I do that when someone asks multiple opposite answers to which there is no clear answer or I don’t feel like answering.

          Such as, “is it daytime or nighttime?” I would answer, “yes”.

          • Its my bad, jokes need proper timing and tone, can’t really do either on a blog. Now maybe if I had real writing talent such as Dal, it might have worked better 🙂

        • Hey Seeker…

          Contiguous can also mean… next or together in sequence… which might fit better with the “clues are in consecutive order”…

          • Spallies,

            Ok I’ll go with that as well. Now In a Q&A Fenn was asked about the clues being around when he was a kid. The answers was No, but “many” of the places were…

            The reference to ” contiguous physically ” is still questionable. Either in the poem or in the field. But the question did ask if there was any reference to this.

            If there is I would like to see that.
            But I can see your point as to order.

    • RC – Here are some of the quotes that I have on the subject. People can interpret and spin the statements how they please and hyperbolize that f is not being straight with us on the subject. But short of f clearly articulating and spelling out in an indisputable word sequence that the clues are both in sequential order in the poem and in the physical location as laid out in the poem, I think that he has said enough to very reasonably expect that they are.

      “Forrest, did you have 9 clues before you wrote the poem or did nine clues appear after you wrote the poem?

      They’re contiguous. I knew where I wanted to hide the treasure chest so it was easy for me to put one foot down and then step on it to get to the next foot, that’s what I did.”

      “Dear Mr. Fenn,
      You say the clues in the poem are to be followed in consecutive order. You have also said the book holds sublte hints. Are these ‘subtle hints’ in consecutive order (in relation to how they help with clues in the poem) too? ~ Thank you, joseph

      That’s right joseph, you should start with the first clue and follow the others consecutively to the treasure. Hints in the book are not that organized.f”

      “There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order.”

      • Thank you very much JCM you have been very helpful. Those quotes you provided are very clear in the intent of Mr. Fenn. Clues must be followed in Consecutive order.

        Where was the last quote sited from?

        • Wolf – it is in one of the Lorene Mills interviews. And right after that statement he tells exactly what to do to find the chest, not that it is really anything new or different from what we know he has said over and over.

        • i pretty much do no research

          if you listen to some of fs statements he seems to indicate that knowledge about many things will not assist anyone to the treasure.

          maybe the less you know and the less research you do gives one the best chance of finding the trove

        • You have a point Chris and could be absolutely correct. But you were questioning the comment about the contiguous statement. I’m surprised anyone that has done just a little research wouldn’t know about that statement, it seemed to be a big deal at the time.

          There seems to be a few folks making erroneous statements lately or asking simple questions that just a little research would answer.

          I don’t mind answering questions but people don’t realize how much they are missing by just getting an answer and not looking at the context it was made in. That is if they think research is important.

          • Well there ya go, That was a video i saw over a year ago, and either I missed or forgot totally. Apologies RC, Thanks Inthechase and chris.

            And with that said…I believed I just used up my last remaining usable braincell.
            Oh well, I still have my good looks.

          • Consider yourself lucky as I was born with neither. Fortunately, I do have great personality.

        • Goofy… I didn’t catch Dal in the video or Forrest reading the peom at his request… Was he the one guy in the front row who raised his hand when they asked who had been out searching for the treasure??? And excuse my ignorance but who are his “author” friends??? I will go watch it again and try to catch the names of some of the books they mention…

          • Spallies, I sincerely apologize, I combined two videos with that statement. The Collected Works talk is the one with the two writers who are Douglas Preston (on our left, Fenn’s right side) and Michael McGarrity.

            Douglas Preston wrote a book roughly based on Fenn’s treasure hunt; it’s called The Codex. They have given talks together on a few occasions. Both of them have seen the treasure.

            The other video I’m talking about is at Moby Dickins Book Store. Here’s the link:

            https://agypsyskiss.wordpress.com/2013/11/08/video-fenn-at-moby-dickens-in-taos-on-02-nov-13/

            This one Fenn does by himself (which I liked better) and is the one where he reads the poem……There are several interesting statements in this video.

            Again, I apologize for the mix up.

          • Thank you so much Goofy… I really appreciate… busy cleaning the apartment but will try to watch before the game… GO HAWKS!!!!

  37. ….I can’t believe this book was printed in 1873, yet it’s such easy reading. People used the word tarry back then, let me give you a little quote:
    “Having frequently witnessed this mirage on the plains, I understood its deception, though never had I seen it so perfect before. Indeed, I could hardly realize that it was the ” Greenhorn’s Lake,” a mere phantom of the imagination, that had lured many an unwary traveller miles out of his course, in the vain hope that he might quench his thirst, and lave his burning limbs in its delicious coolness.
    As we approached the high ground, Cochise gave me to understand that we should be obliged to camp for the night on the plains, without grass for our mules; but that by rising early in the morning, we should in a few hours reach both water and grass.
    Before noon of the next day we came to a little aroya, down which trickled a small stream.
    Cochise soon made a little tank, by scooping out the sand with his hands; this quickly filled with water, from which our thirsty mules drank eagerly. Here we tarried for the remainder of the day.”

    • Best thing I ever did was take a few lessons from a pro. Won’t solve all your problems but it gives you a good foundation from which to build.

  38. Here me all and list ten. Good:
    I posted this over at chasechat and thought I would throw it out here for discussion.

    I am beginning to think this may be the ultimate solution. The 9 clues in the poem lead to a 10th clue which leads to the treasure which is safely held or hidden somewhere else. Possibly something along the lines of the Spider Rock, a west Texas local legend that Forrest would have heard growing up. Dave Arnold had a sheepskin map that he was convinced would lead him to a Spanish treasure. The map led him to the spider rock which still has not been deciphered.

    Part of the story has an interesting take on the phrase “in the wood”: “In 1905 he moved his search to a wilderness sixty miles southeast, and once again unearthed a beautifully carved stone map imprisoned in the roots of a huge oak.”

    http://www.messagetoeagle.com/spiderrocktreasure.php#.VLE0_HswDkN

    • Jack, if you would do a little research you would save yourself a lot of trouble and we wouldn’t have to listen to this theory over and over……You guys don’t even read the cheat sheet.

      I said on the Today show that the treasure is not associated with any structure. Some people say I have a desire to mislead. That is not true. There are no notes to be found or safety deposit boxes to be searched. The clues can lead you to the treasure, and it will be there waiting when you arrive.

      http://dalneitzel.com/2013/04/17/2071/

      • This will be the face of the chase from here on out. With the first wave of searchers leaving the chase, the new waves of searchers have a mountain of information to dig through. The old school searchers, who read all of this when it came out, can recall these kind of statements as common knowledge.

        I experience this with a freind who recently started in the chase. She forms ideas that are quickly dismissed with info that could be found in these archives.

        • El Fantasma you are probably right …….Everyone seems to be searching the same areas and asking the same old questions. They are handing out the same wrong information they heard someone else say.

          Most of us old timers wished we would have had the amount of information that is available today back then…..Some have spent a good deal of money and time searching and researching areas that have been dismissed or ruled out.

          Dal has done a great job of organizing the information. He has the “most important info” page, the cheat sheet, the media page, all of Dal’s interviews with Fenn are listed. Besides that the search engine at the bottom of the page works pretty good. Google advanced search works well and it can be pointed at a specific site and key words assigned. It doesn’t get much easier.

          Like I said, I don’t mind answering questions but I’ve seen folks watch the exact same video and come up with completely different interpretations of what he said; context is important……Good grief they should at least read the cheat sheet.

      • Goofy, I am fully aware of that quote and have been since he said it. IMO, a symbol, map, code, etc. carved on a rock or a tree or piece of wood, metal object, etc. would not be considered a note. The poem still would lead to the treasure if you solved the clue you found from the poe poem. Listen good to what he said.

        • Jack that’s fine if that is what you get out of what he said. You didn’t say you disagreed with his quote and interpreted it differently.

          To me he was perfectly clear……the nine clues will lead you to the treasure, not a map, or note, or deed, or a Rosetta stone.

          Good luck in your search.

          • Just saying that we need to keep an open mind to possibilities. Forrest is rarely perfectly clear in what he says about the chase. One of his friends is quoted as say that you have to listen to what he doesn’t say which is often more important than what he says. Look at his poem – it sounds perfectly clear doesn’t it?

        • I agree Jack. Ff said no “notes to be found.” There could be a map or symbols along the way.

          But in the end – solve the poem is what’s needed to find the treasure.

          Note Definition

          n. noun
          A brief record, especially one written down to aid the memory.
          took notes on the lecture.
          A comment or explanation, as on a passage in a text.
          The allusion is explained in the notes at the end of the chapter.
          A brief informal letter.
          A musical note

  39. If it’s so much work for you old timers then don’t do it and let others who don’t mind giving obvious answers for those in need?

    • Chaseme, it’s no work at all, I created a weighted database with all the information I have.

      I don’t mind answering questions for “those in need” that are having trouble researching something……But someone too lazy to read the cheat sheet is a waste of time.

      Fenn is a firm believer in working for what you get, if you did any research you would know this. If you’re too lazy to read the information that is handed to you I seriously doubt you have any chance at all of finding the chest and are just wasting our time.

      All you need is the poem……go for it.

      • That’s right Goofy… I don’t think that redneck from Texas, who lost his job and has 12 kids and a wife could afford to buy a book. All you need is the poem without messing (with his poem). Wait… I’m a redneck! Trying to go poem only. What a challenge!

    • Chaseme, You seem to forget that Goofy and Dal have put endless hours into this site for the benefit of all of us, so I think you are being unjustifiably critical with your back handed remark. Goofy’s advice is sound–folks should at least read the basics before asking others to enlighten. Otherwise we all are doomed to running in circles, covering the same stuff, over, and over again.

      • Raven – agreed.

        I can barely remember what I know, so I barely know what to say. So I have to go read everything that is out there so I can then tell someone else what is there. At least then I know what is out there, but I can barely remember what I know, so I barely know what to say. So I have to go read everything that is out there so I can then tell someone else what is there. At least then I know what is out, but I can barely remember what I know…

        wait a second, what am I talking about? I must be getting old.

    • @ 23Kachinas,
      Happiness is a journey, not a destination. I think that’s what Forrest Fenn hopes we discover on our treasure chest searches.

  40. chaos because someone asks a question about something? He’s saying it’s too hard for him to push a few buttons to help answer. Then he shouldn’t. Maybe someone else doesn’t find it so difficult to help someone else out. I wasn’t speaking about misinformation. Just helping people find information.

    • Chaseme,

      I think your missing the point. It’s not about ‘Not’ helping or passing on the information that some more senior searchers have heard or seen and have gone to great lengths to be factual . It more about the information and answers to question that have been repeated over the years are available right here on this site… and others as well, if one just took the time to walk through that information. No one had to create the cheat sheet or a media section etc. But they did so, to ‘help’.

      All that is being said, is use those tool that are there….Folks like Goofy have taken the time just for that. I for one thank and appreciate the work and time over the past four years + Goofy, Dal and other did to make the new comers to the chase lives a bit easier. If they just would utilized it, they would see just how informative it is.

    • Hey chaseme,
      You could very easily push a few buttons on your own computer and get all of the info you might need right at your finger tips…That might be more productive for you than pushing other’s buttons and then complaining about it. This is all supposed to be fun and positive (IMO) This blog is the super highway to Fenn related info… just sayin’

  41. Wasn’t critical. Just easier to answer a question or not speak up then give a speech about how hard it is to answer a question.

  42. Good morning searchers old and new. I appreciate all of you and encourage all to remember that everyone is welcome in the chase. As pointed out there is a wealth of information out there in the form of blogs where ideas have been freely exchanged for years. Please, be patient with one another and kindness costs nothing.

    Make yourself aware of how lucky we all are in that there are archives to read that may spark a stroke of genius for one dedicated searcher.

    Have a wonderful weekend. 🙂 Yes, its a beautiful life!

  43. With so many people searching and looking what are the chances this chest will be found by some one with out solving any clues? I wonder how Forrest would answer this question… like is it worth your time?

      • Just wondering if people were wasting time by searching randomly…I’m sure they could get lucky… 🙂

        • Pieces, I would say yes it would be a complete waste of time to search randomly. I suppose that it could happen; but I think the odds against finding it that way would be astronomical.

          He has said on several occasions the chest won’t be found accidentally. So apparently he has a great deal of confidence in the “hidey spot”.

    • pieces….I don’t think that’s going to be the case at all. IMO..I think that a person would have to solve at least some of the clues. Weather they are aware of it is another thing . I expect we will all see this figured out by someone in less time than 100 to 1000 years. I also think that Forrest would answer ” Absolutely worth my time” without hesitation. IMO.!!!!!!

    • Forrest, Dal, Goofy, and old timers on Dal’s blog:

      THANK YOU for building an excellent framework and filling it with pertinent totc information!!

      I appreciate all you’ve done and discover new (old) material in Dal’s search engine weekly.

      @Piecesof15 and newcomers:

      Searching is well worth your time if you enjoy the great outdoors and an authentic treasure hunt which yields so much more than gold. I had forgotten how much I love the mountains. I’ve completed 9 searches in different areas of Wyoming and Montana with family and friends. If I die tomorrow, I die richer in spirit because of Forrest’s dare to get outdoors and enjoy the thrill of the chase. My grown son said searching with me deep in wild country was his favorite vacation. We sat in a stone chair on top of a remote waterfall, ate wild huckleberries, waded streams to cool off, and came face to face with a bull moose – all in one afternoon.

      Naturalist John Muir described what has been thrilling and enchanting for me:

      “Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature’s peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop away from you like the leaves of Autumn.”
      ― John Muir

      “Thousands of tired, nerve-shaken, over-civilized people are beginning to find out that going to the mountains is going home; that wildness is a necessity”

      ― John Muir, Our National Parks

  44. My point is instead of complaining that the person is asking to maybe let someone willing to answer do just that and add how they can find it themselves. Easy peasy. No need for haters anymore. Carry on.

  45. A metal detector would work, if you were in exactly the right spot. f 🙂

    And he said no one is going to stumble upon this treasure.

    Let me just say, no one is going to trip over the box as they walk this earth.

    • Well why didn’t you say so sooner, Close Earth? Where were you 15 months ago? By chance, do you have a nice metal detector I can borrow? I have a few hundred thousand square miles I need to check out. 🙂

  46. Hi all ,

    I would like to chime in on some of this debacle of the input of information. What I have learned, How to pick my comments. You don’t have to comment on every post . If you choose to comment , try and be constructive with
    everyone and pick and choose what data you can relate to , and don’t comment on the things you have not studied. I will say , Dal ,Goofy ,Seeker , Mindy , and a few others have picked at my theories , I thank you all for that . Weather they agreed or not , I listen to every word they say . Their Logic is not twisted or non productive. The worst thing to do in this Chase is close your mind. You will never hear FF if you do and you will move farther away from the real Blaze if you do .

    Dal putting the site together the way he has helps a searcher do just that , and the time involved is WOW! Dal , you need helpers soon for your site… It’s getting big and fast. That’s awesome. I personally listen to the videos read his TTOTC and the poem for over a year and I do this Daily, then I compare the data…. This makes it easier for me to challenge myself to find the data myself. I don’t personally trust the information hwy, So I’m going to look at it with my fresh eye’s and decide if the info is worth it by trying to test the Logic of my understanding, and this is not a easy process. A lot of people cannot handle being pocked . So, I am personally not commenting on any negative non productive arguments. I wrote this so If you are new to this , you need to understand how much these Men and Ladies have put in to this . They may have been on a track you have… maybe you have a New concept. Heck I posted my HOB which was not to say I knew where it was but , to see if others felt it could be a possibility . Why did I post my understanding? One reason I just posted the other , I’m not a greedy man at all . I don’t have a million buck and nor dose most of us . So if you are in this out of a negative reason , then your walking with a limp while I’m running right past you to the Chest.

    I hope this comment is productive and not discouraging for anyone who reads it…
    But , I will defend Dal , he is one of most stand up guy’s I’ve ever encountered , tells it like it is and he has my utmost respect as a human being… Stay focused!

  47. FF said that Miss Ford was an “Old Bat”. In spanish that is:

    bat
    noun
    (Zool) murciélago (m)
    old bat (old woman) bruja <<<< witch in english

    Something else from that chapter, FF says:
    "…a beautiful slide down fire escape was just outside the window…"
    "…that rusty old thing marked the tail of my britches pretty good with a heavy brown color, it was worth it."
    That describes a flume to me.

  48. qualifier: some of this is imo

    the clues must be followed in order Fenn has said. they are contiguous. i think he used the example of placing a foot right after the other, like on top of, or touching each other, which would fit with the meaning of contiguous

    he has said some have arrived not knowing the significance. those who’ve been closest didn’t know. but others have got the first 2 clues.

    the people who arrive at the place haven’t followed the clues in order.

    the people who have followed the clues in order only got the first 2 and didnt arrive at the place.

    i think a picture emerges here. f gives us bits and pieces but won’t explain the whole strand.

    following the clues in order make take you on a bit of a journey. here, then there, then up, then down, then finally to the spot. maybe you can get 5 or 6 or even 7 of the clues and still you arent as close as the people who arrived not knowing.
    but they have to be followed in order, because that is the only way you can understand how the preceding clues provide the significance to where you arrive at in the end. only then will you know where to go.

    no one will stumble upon it, he said, so those who have solved some of the clues in order, are closer to realistically finding it than those who come physically closer.

    • Perfect Chris,

      I like the way you just presented all that…now comes a concern of mine. fenn stated in a Q&A, that the clues did not exist when he was a kid [ ok no problem there…neither did the poem ]
      But ‘most’ of the places the clues refer to did…

      I have thought about that Q&A and most of what you just presented, So here are some thoughts… “Most Places”, could mean that some clues or at the very least one clue of the 9 is /are not a place.
      Another thought is fenn could have created a place or the actual hide itself.
      Yet another thought could be, The places did exist when he was a kid and does not Now… but the knowing of it or knowledge of it still does. so technically it can still be called a place.
      and last but not least. The place[s] one or more, could exist in history / the past or a place in time, but know longer exist physically today.

      One or more clues may not be physical in place…the question is what is a place to fenn? physical or knowledge of. And yes I understand… the foot right after the other comment. which is fine till, at the very least, one of those steps no longer is a ‘Place’.

      If fenn had said ‘all the places’ then we would know. but ‘Many’ doesn’t say all 9 clues are places.

      Again thanks for correcting me on the ‘contiguous” comment.

      • the other thing he could mean is that some places don’t exist today, and neither did they exist when he was a kid. tell the truth but not all the truth

        “Most Places”, could mean that some clues or at the very least one clue of the 9 is /are not a place.

        logically, no i dont think so. that is trying to equate “most places the clues refer to” with “most of the clues refer to places” but they do not equate

        you may be right that not all clues are places but fs specific statement is immaterial in that regard is what im saying.

        for example, if 7 of the 9 clues refer to places, saying all places the clues refer to would simply mean you are referring to all 7 places. or if 9 of the 9 clues, then same thing, all places the clues refer to would mean the 9 places. the statement from f doesn’t indicate one way or the other, only that some places didn’t exist when he was a kid.

        • Well, I’ll give credit where credit is due… one thing I can say about FF is he has a mind like a steel trap. If I had to recall all my comments I have made over the last 2 + yrs. on the poem…
          I could never keep them straight or even remember I said something half the time.

          He has been inundated with Question for over 4 yrs, by searchers, TV, radio, magazines, newspaper reporter, etc.etc. and he as not faltered in his answers to spill a single clue.

          I get confused remember my kids names… they are now, Son #1 and #2… it’s just easier.

        • If we use logic in the question of whether the chest is hidden in THE Rockies, we might be able to see something interesting.

          If the maps highlighted areas are genuine search areas, and if not all the highlighted areas fall within the boundaries of THE Rockies, then there are search areas outside of the Rockies proper.

          I think that’s right but I’ve been known to suck at math.

      • There are several ways to interpret the “most of the places” comment, as noted. It could be understood as there being new places that the poem refers to now exist but did not back then. That would be somewhat of a stretch if all of the places are natural with expected longevity, but not if the places came into being in some natural or artificial way. The clues in the poem could also have solutions that are not ‘places’ per se, but have a solution that will produce a place if figured out in the context of the poem. Forrest could also have said it in a somewhat offhand manner, and just said ‘most of’ the places when in fact they all are, and he was being interesting. But with his printed responses, I normally expect more measured language.

        There are several other variations on the interpretation of the “most of” comment. Seeker mentioned Forrest may have created a “place” himself. Personally I thought it was most curious that Forrest used the words “places that the poem refers to”. Refer? Well, that sounds rather straightforward…

        I believe that the “contiguous” reference is extremely useful to searchers. It speaks directly to the nature of the organization of the clues, how tightly knit they are, and perhaps how the places are connected, or arrayed in the landscape. And coupled with his numerous comments about following the clues in order, and not being able to jump ahead to a clue such as hoB and interpret the clue correctly without the preceding clues being solved, we have a powerful and logical tool to work with. And if we take this concept of contiguousness in the context of his statements that the poem was “written by an architect” and that it is in fact “an architectural plan”, we have an even stronger foundation.

        Forrest spoke about all the years that he worked on the poem, and also spoke of simplicity. He took his time, he distilled it down to its essence, off and on, changing it many times, tweaking it, getting it just right. The development of an architectural plan takes an enormous amount of time and coordination, starting with conceptual ideas, then schematic design, design development and detailing, and ultimately finalizing a finely detailed architectural plan that can actually be used and followed by those who understand how to read plans and construct a whole new building. An architectural plan is a completely integrated whole, and is certainly contiguous. Your eyes may jump around the plan in an effort to understand it, as you might when analyzing the poem, and it contains an extraordinarily diverse number of interrelated elements, but it is contiguous and unbroken.

        An architectural plan tells you how to build a building, and the poem tells you how to build a solution.

        So Forrest is telling you that the poem is an architectural plan, that it is contiguous, and that it should be followed in order. He is creating powerful imagery about the poem solution. The poem is written with words, done “the write way” (to use his words), and architectural language is a combination of graphics, words and symbols. Forrest chose to call the poem an architectural plan rather than a map, guidebook, or other device.

        So if the poem is an architectural plan, how do you imagine how the clue solutions and/or the places fitting together? I see it in a particular way, and a hint would be that “Not far, but too far to walk” is not referring to a distance.

        Forrest also spoke about “a word that is key”, and many weighed in on this. So once again, what is a word that is key? A word that IS key? Well, that would be “key” 😉 And a critical element of an architectural plan would be the key, or legend, where the common and unique symbols that appear on the plan are defined. And Forrest has referred to there being more of a key to the poem. So perhaps the key to the poem is analogous to the key on an architectural plan.

        Forrest also used the phrase “a word” again in reference to the blaze. When asked if the blaze was a single object (a very architectural reference), Forrest replied “In a word, yes.” Does this mean it’s simply a one word answer “yes”, as most have interpreted it, or does it mean something else? Suppose the blaze is a single object in a word, exactly as he stated. What would a single object in a word be? A letter.
        But I conspicuously digress, and come full circle back to where we started, because the beginning is ever drawing nigh.

        SYand42lbsHeavier,
        Halogetter

        • Halogetter that’s a whole lot of stuff you just said. Do you think that maybe the clues are not in order but continues. Supposing say “As I have gone alone in there” is the first clue, yet not in order of the rest.

          • CE, I think the clues are in order in the poem, and also conceptually contiguous. That doesn’t mean that there are no space between them with other important text, so to speak.

            In Forrest’s ball of string, which vacated the premises “out the window”, the red pieces of string are all in order, and not necessarily physically contiguous, but conceptually so.

            Halogetter

          • Close…Your are correct the first words are an instruction on how to understand the poem in my opinion. Since Friday, I have been reading words that aren’t in my dictionary.

        • Halogetter, excellent interpretation. I plan to formulate a symbol key to work with the poem and try to overlay it on my map. Not easily done but a fresh approach for me. Appreciate you sharing your wisdom! Your halo is shining like the blaze.
          Thanks 🙂

          • Lia,

            Thank you. That sounds like a good project. Kind of like bringing order to the silverware in the drawer, only better…

            Halo

      • Or he may have been referring to the way that the lands change. That is where that led me. For example, it may have not been in the National Forest when he was a kid, but it is now. That is just my opinion.

    • Hey Chris – I don’t know if this will change your opinion, but I have f saying the following:

      “There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest.”

      “I know that people have been within 500 feet. There are two different parties that have figured out the first two clues correctly, and went right past the treasure chest, but they didn’t have the others.”

      An argument where splitting hairs is involved could be made that those who have solved the first two clues did not get within 500 feet, but f’s comments would seem to reasonably indicate that those who solved the first two clues did walk within 500 feet of the chest.

      Interesting and good, thoughtful commentary.

      Where I believe the picture hasn’t been fully painted by f is where he has again stated “No one has given me the correct solve past the first two clues”. Take that with his other statement that a man has been closest, but that some women have also been close and I am left wondering just how it is that f knows the man was closest if the man and the women all only had solved the first 2 clues. What did the man do or where did he go that got him closer?

      f has said that searchers have been within 500 feet, but also several hundred feet and possibly even 200 feet (I have never been able to get f to confirm the statement in the MT newspaper that it states he made). I suppose that if the man was within 200 feet, and the women a few hundred more than him, what caused him to get closer? Did he get the third clue wrong but maybe get the 4th, 5th or one/some of the other clues right, thus allowing f to legitimately wordsmith his statement that “No one has given me the correct solve past the first two clues” because no one has correctly solved the third clue?

      I suppose these are just rhetorical questions based upon inference and f will never reveal anything until the chest is found or if enough time passes, we will never know why he has made the statements he has.

      I will leave this comment with this thought/question (also rhetorical), if the clues are each a specific place to be found along the way to Indulgence, how many of the clues would be remaining in that last 500 feet or 200 feet or however close someone has been?

      Now I need to go help my wife before she really starts to complain that I am not doing anything to help her this evening.

      • what if you look on google earth. He still is very active on the computer. I thought the 200 ft. comment came a lot later that the 500 ft. comment. So, it’s possible the spot is 500 ft. away from a traffic oriented road, trail, etc… Now, people could have just taken pictures of the area and that picture icon shows up on Google Earth. that icon could be 200 ft. from the spot.If the spot is 500 ft. from a trail and a picture icon is 200 ft. from the spot. then you have your answer. possible.?

        • This might be far-fetched, but he could be referencing the ft in elevation. he is tricky with words. if someone had been within 500 ft, surely it would have been found as everybody that thought they were close would have looked again in that area and extended 500 ft. I do not know when this was said, and if also, if it is confirmed that a “searcher” or someone actively looking for the treasure was within 500 ft. meaning someone told him where they were at, and he made a public statement that someone was within that distance. or could it be that anyone including “non-searchers” have been within 500 ft. Its a lot to think about, and I have almost completely disregarded it in my search.

          • He may be refering to elevation, someone posted that earlier and it sounds like a good thought. I don’t think you can dismiss it though. More like your spot must answer to it. Along with the 200ft. spot.

          • Not far-fetched at all, but don’t be so sure that someone can just “extend” their previous search 500 feet and easily find something that was intentionally hidden well.

            A circle with a 500ft radius has an area of over 785,000 sqft. (pi * 500^2). That’s about 18 acres of land. Assuming you can search 1 square foot a second and you can do that for 8 hours a day non-stop, it’d take you 27 days of effort to completely search just the area of that circle.

  49. …yeah there’s part of me that wonders if Fenn isn’t just F ‘ing with us. Who is to say ? People are constantly throwing ideas at him… I have emailed him a thousand different ideas. Is he simply playing Mr. Wizard, stirring a kettle full of everyone’s ideas, then relating it back to us ?

    When ever I come across stuff like this…………….
    “Bathing may with great propriety be regarded as a practice not less congenial with our feelings of bodily comfort than conducive to vigorous health.”

    “Minerva is feigned to have imparted renewed vigour to the wearied limbs of Hercules at the warm springs of Thermopylae ; and Vulcan, in place of other gifts, offered him warm baths.”………….is this OMG or just another coincidence?

    Mind you I am not complaining, this dog will keep chasing his tail for as long as it takes.

    • 9clues…….In my opinion the answer your question is yes; he is absolutely messing with us. It’s part of the game of matching wits with Fenn. He’s a marketing genius, he uses what he perceives about us to make the sale so to speak. He’s done it on a personal level a couple of times with me. I get a kick out of it. He’s very good at reading people and twisting them into a knot; or making a sale.

      Don’t take it personally, it’s part of the game.

  50. I’m not telling anyone anything they don’t already know, but I feel like I need to shout from the top of my lungs what a thoughtful and kind man Forrest B. Fenn is. He fulfilled a request of mine and then went WAY above an beyond with it. I wish like hell I lived closer to him so I could go thank him face to face like he deserves to be thanked. If we were half as kind and thoughtful of other people as he is the world would be a better place. May the Great Spirit bless him and everyone he loves for all time. Thank you from the bottom of my heart Forrest Fenn, your actions speak volumes about who you REALLY are. The true treasure is in our souls, and Forrest’s is definitely golden! If there is EVER ANYTHING I am capable of doing for you, please just ask!

    Your friend,

    Michael D

    • Nicely said Michael D.

      For the skeptics,

      “..The story about my treasure chest is true, and if it doesn’t stir your spirit then I hope at least it brings a smile in one of your dreams.”

      Forrest Fenn, TTOTC – Preface

  51. Exactly!! Fenn is not real, he is probably just an actor, lol! Either way I am looking for the T-Box and a straight shot through the medula, because I am simply too tired to continue.

  52. Yep it’s true one day as I was walking through the woods I realized he was me @ that very moment I realized I was more valuable then the treasure I sought. Great site loving all the free info especially that cheat sheet, it’s pretty much all a guy needs than n’ poem.

    Peace!

  53. Hey everyone, New and Old. Lots of little tid bits here and there. I suggest to you all to take notes. Its hard to find those old posts and like this thread…Trying find the old ones is hard. It all gets buried.
    Just want to say how much I enjoy you all and….I am so happy with my arrowhead that forrest sent me. Thrilling…..Can’t wait for Spring. RIP Rennelle,
    See you on the Path.
    Lou Lee, Chased by Bears in Jellystone Park, and lived to tell

  54. Has any one considered Astronomy in this Chase? I have not until now . I like to cover all my bases , so I took down this Rabbit hole to check to see if my theories of where the chest are holds water to me still. Process of elimination is my Key to a possible solve. IMO but one less factor is always helpful right?

    Well 9 clues and 6 stanza (69) Looks like Pisces , ), the Pisces Dwarf galaxy, the double radio galaxy 3C 31, and the … Omega Piscium is a yellow-white subgiant star with the stellar classification of F4IV.

    In learning in school , I remember 7 liberal arts… I also remember that in ancient history Wisdom(Her) fills or enlightens men with these 7 spirits. If you add her to the equation 7+1=8 right , but you still need some one to receive the wisdom , so lets add FF to this equation 8+1=9 Well if my memories serves me correctly
    (69) represents her. I don’t know, it was a fun read , I don’t know much about this topic but maybe it’s a foundation to start with ..

    • One other thing, Sorry on 36hrs of studying FF, So I’m a bit tired and forgot to say why I looked that way. When I played my poker theory last night again ..I notice that the signals , I posted about last night kind of look like stars… but, that could also be the out line of a mountain … Not sure. That’s why I post some of the stuff I find… has any one folded page 101TTOTC in half which will make two folds if you do it right…. It is a depiction of a Egyptian statue of a goddess. Where on page 70 folded a owl of the Bohemian club. A owl on a sash , While on page 101 unfold the page after outlining the poem you see a pot from the druids, this was the exact look of it any way ,which is also know as some of the oldest forms of intact pottery ever found. Any way just kicking the can I guess… But it was cool to learn this stuff anyway…

    • Yes Mike, awhile back. I’ll have to dig thru my notes, maybe i’ll find something that may help. From memory, was looking into Pisces, Dog Star, great Bear, etc… I’ll dig and post if I find anything.
      Keep on it though, never know. I don’t think Forrest would get to scientific though, I feel there is a different theme to the poem. But who knows, post if you find.

      • Hi Charlie ,
        Thanks for the post. I agree I think it’s more simple. I agree with that . But any rock unturned is a lost understanding … So , I try and exploit every inch of a possible solve until I rule it out… This possible conclusion is interesting and looks like it could connect , but I have found so many other possibilities and along with others who have posted their brilliant concepts here , That I still think F is tieing flies for us Fishes to bite … And he snags a lot of us… But, I think I’m spitting every hook … Only because I think he had a very serious motive to this thing and this concept could possibly be too easy to find ,
        when he said it would be difficult but not impossible. In another place he said it would take Mettle enough
        ( Curious George ) to strike that blaze.

        I’m just as perplexed as all of you and I don’t know where it is either . Even though I have a good theory … I don’t have the chest … I think I’ve fallen for every fly he cast in that river and had been hooked a few times… But I’m a fish that can spit a hook quick.. Sea trout are difficult to catch , they jump out of the water and spit it right at ya at times … That’s me! Good luck I’ll keep pluggin this one any notes are helpful and will be considered… Thanks again.

  55. Mike,
    I have considered astronomy and I really like the thought. I have found some really interesting (well I think they are interesting) connections, you know dancing with the stars type stuff. I have no idea what all those numbers you spewed out mean but your post started off interesting! lol

    • This only my opinion, but I believe if you are on the spot at the correct date and time, you will be able to see specific constellations around on the horizon. Milan talked about using sky view. I’ve done it for several locations and it’s very interesting.

    • Hi Wolf…
      Im trying to place possible connection between the symbol of that constellation (69) don’t see this as a number but a symbol. For the constellation….
      This consolation is used in goddess worship for thousands of years… Well looking at the goddess she represents Wisdom and understanding. She teaches it with 7 spirits, which in school we still teach 7 liberal arts and they are the same she taught…literally
      It was practiced also by the Greeks as well as the Ancient Egyptians… As well as the Foundation of Free Masons.
      So my association is The Goddess=1 the 7 liberal Arts =7
      and the Craftsman Forrest Fenn being = 1
      1+7+1=9 nine clues?
      The Symbol for Pisces is (69) lol separated 6 9 6 stanza 9 clues. Duality or a possible duel solve? Idk
      And is with the Omega Giant Star.. which the star is Yellow and White ( With in the light spectrum of brown )Double Omega’s back of TTOTC ….

      IDK Wolf … I can’t put my brain 1/2 brain cell to it today… Hope this kind of makes some sense… If not I’m putting Down the Coffee , and going to bed…. His dad a teacher….. IDK

      http://www.masonicworld.com/education/files/artjan02/marcus/sevenliberalartsandsciences.htm

  56. …lets hope Fenn has an affinity for simple rock shelters and Not caves,
    “As of 2013, Caves of Montana Project and Northern Rocky Mountain Grotto members have documented over 350 caves in the state that contain more than 50 feet (15.2 meters) of passage. New caves are found every year. Many of Montana’s caves are located on public land, often in designated Wilderness areas.”

    • Lets not forget this artist in NM, what incredible talent. BTW Fenn wouldn’t corrupt such a labor of love, unless of course the inside was done in a trout motif

    • That’s really neat, 9clues. Wow! …”over 350 caves in the state that contain more than 50 feet (15.2 meters) of passage”. How fun is that? Seriously. By my calculations each of those caves is just a little over one and a half inches deep. So…again I ask…how fun IS it? 🙂 I suppose it all depends on what your definition of IS is. Of course, anyone who thinks there’s more than one definition of “is” only requires a cave that’s 1.5 inches…or less…anyway.

      • JC1117 – great cave info. A while back I researched caves in Montana and found the Caving groups keep cave locations secret from the public for the protection of the caves. You have to become a spelunking member to obtain current maps.
        http://cavesofmontana.org

        For Montana, I was able to find on-line an extensive geological survey done by the MT school of mines for a county by county, detailed list from the 70’s with maps, drawings, dimensions of each cave.

        • That’s cool, 42. It should be pretty obvious to most around these parts that I’m “probably” above average when it comes to being sarcastic. I love caves. I also love how those die-hard spelunkers won’t just publish their intel online for everyone to see and prefer instead to keep it close to the vest. As if caving wasn’t fun already, right? You ALSO have to be a member of the club and get a secret decoder ring. Even COOLER! I totally respect that.

  57. -OFF TOPIC-

    Grew up in Ohio moved to Oregon in the 90’s. Tonights game between Ohio state and the Oregon Ducks should be fun. I’m caught in the middle should I be for Ohio or Oregon. I’m leaning Ohio….they’ve met 8 times and Ohio has won everytime.

  58. clues from Philadelphia…

    Ok so most of you know, ‘Catcher in the Rye’ is mentioned in TTOTC….well anyways the author of the book went to school, and based the school in the catcher in the rye, at Valley Forge Military Academy in Wayne pa…

    I was looking at a map and saw that there is a park called, Fenimore woods, nearby.. it is named after James Fenimore Cooper, an American author…he wrote tales on the navy, about life on the sea, and native americans….

    Well anyway I thought it was funny that Fenn’s last name is in that mans last name….

    Fenimores daughter was a author too and fought for women suffrage… like how women suffrage is mentioned in TTOTC…

  59. Something I’ve been pondering lately.
    Supposing some searcher, anyone of us had the correct solve but hadn’t retrieved the treasure. This is all hypothetical of course but I was thinking even if a 100% solve were posted to this blog. I’m talking about the real solve to get the treasure. I would wager a bet that 95% of the people on this blog would say that can’t be correct. I’ve often wondered why and I’ve been thinking that it’s because people want to believe in their own thoughts…that my friends is why each of us goes his own way and why none of us work together–you can’t herd cats.

    • Ed –

      I so totally agree with you. It’s a lot of what we remember – that triggers a clue to a spot. A child has a limited memory – and perhaps that is why FF said give it to a child.

      Until we start thinking what Forrest remembers – and how HE felt – the real spot will not be understood.

      Many here are in it for the short term fun – and will fade into the sunset shortly. It is the long haul – that will solve the quest.

      I don’t believe it can be solved with out the coordinates – so to figure that out – is a maze of answers – and time consuming.

      It would be highly unusual to find a partner or another searcher that is even on the same page – so as far as working together – other than on – on the blogs -I just don’t see it happening.

      All of the above is just my little ol very humble opinion.

      • IMO it can be solved just with the poem. ff said so.

        The poem will give you the location but not the coordinates. Again IMO

        • James –

          LOL – it can be solved with just the poem. What FF didn’t add was – after research.

          Answer me this – why did he write the books?

          • Why? You ask! Obviously for everyone to have “The Thrill Of The Chase” of their own. DUHHH!

            IMHO that is.

    • Ed, I consider myself more of a dog than cat, and somewhat herdable 🙂

      But if we take our ques from Forrest, he is a one man show and maverick. He and Dal play their hands very close to their sleeve, but are extremely kind to offer many ideas. I think you’re correct about not being able to herd cats, but don’t you know they will all show up when the bowl of cream is set out.

    • Ed – I am not so sure that most people would reject the correct solve, though I am sure there would be more than a few who would, mostly due to ego and the fact that they couldn’t accept being wrong.

      If a solution was presented that incorporated “a word that is key” which helped unlock the clues and their real meanings in the poem and which also identified subtle clues in the book which helped to clarify and bring understanding to the meaning of the 9 clues, then I expect it would contain enough logic and make enough sense that most people would be asking themselves why they had not seen those things or figured it out before.

      It’s like f said,”And at the end, the one who finds the gold will not feel lucky, but instead, will ask himself, “what took me so long?”” This statement seems to infer that once a person figures it our and then proceeds in confidence, it won’t be because of some obscure, strange, or generalized interpretation of the clues, but one that is completely rational.

      When I see solutions and people talk about a bunch of large boulders, some river or stream bed that floods on occasion, some power lines, or they describe an area where it looks like a bit of a challenge to hike, I immediately know I don’t ever need to be concerned about that person finding the correct location if that is their solutions to the clues. Maybe I am wrong, but my ego won’t let me be. 🙂

    • IMO – no one wants to put anything because that would give it away. I might have the same spot that everyone on here has had and I am going to that spot this wknd and maybe we are going to be laughed at by all the people in the city! Driving there from TX is going to be a very very long drive – but we are so sure about it that we can’t wait. After, if I am wrong – then I will just laugh at myself. If I am right, great one Forrest! Way to go – it is just so hilarious!! There are just way too many clues that I have found AFTER I solved the poem that I can’t look away from. However, maybe this has happened to everyone already!!!! There are just way too many coincidences to pass this up.

      • Same here I got this solve it’s so Square, just aching to be discovered. Maybe we’ll run into each other at the same spot. Although I’m not sure I want to know. What if it is there?

        • And what if it’s not there. We are keeping our ego out of it – r at least trying to.

      • Another possibility is Forrest is just baiting you and I. Flip a coin I might go this weekend I might not.

        • Have you noticed all the clues on this website? Have you noticed all the clues in the book? I noticed after I solved the poem. We are leaving thurs we have about a 843 mile long drive. Really long! And in the snow! Not use to driving in the snow. But I am so sure – that I am making my family go.

          • My drive is just under 1200 miles from Oregon 16 1/2 hrs. I can do it in a day. Make sure you have chains.

          • I know it’s crazy how many clues are on this site, just a regular gold mine. I think most folks are exhausted. Fenn has knocked them silly in the arena.

        • IMO, there is no “what if it’s there?” If you have the right solve you will know beyond a shadow of a doubt exactly where it is. I think a few people are close to a spot (I’m not—still have much research to do), but it seems like the poem is starting to jump out at us as time continues to allow us to read it over and over, backwards and upside down.

          • Sorry Mindy we were getting carried away. I’ll get back to whatever I was doing and your right the confidence I have isn’t enough.

          • I was thinking that last night. I don’t have enough confidence in that spot so I think I’ll let it ride till summer–it’s nice to think about though. I have all the cold weather gear to explore.

      • I try to keep my emotions low, no way I’m getting excited here. I’ve been down this path before only an amateur gets excited. I’m in this thing for the long-haul. This is a marathon run. Six failed attempts. Notice how I said attempts not failures.

        • If you are not saying to yourself “What took me so long”, then think of any trip you make as going to check out one of many, many locations in the Rocky Mountains.

          Experience either humbles one into this thinking pattern or humiliates them into giving up and quitting.

      • If you are heading to the spot I was at 2 weeks ago, save the time and go in the spring. There was 18 inches of snow on the ground, and checking the weather in the area since then, it hasn’t let up almost at all. Its nearly impossible with the snow. I was more confident than you are, as I head out the same day I solved the poem. Good Luck

      • …If you’re headed to NM, do me a favor. There is a cave on state land, not BLM, noticeably listed on Topo maps. The dec/deg coordinates are 36.19867 106.15459
        Maybe it’s been ransacked already by locals, infested with rattle snacks, you may need something more agile than a jeep, possibly a 4 wheeler_it’s 2 plus miles from a paved road. Do use all a favor, take some photos of the inside and entrance & then post them on google earth…Good luck

        • …typing has never been my strong suit, Had I’ve known Sept 2013 that there was a cave across the Rio Chama, I probably would have walked to it, God knows I hoofed it plenty on that trip. Lord knows I drove up and down that highway mucho times, beautiful scenery.

  60. Fenn is King and he is dang hard to checkmate…getting him in the corner is next to impossible I’m sure he is smiling if he read this…

  61. Ahhh! in a few months we will know. Yes I have a complete solve IMO and it was with the help from TTOTC, however, after turning to JUST the poem… I have answers that give me the exact location to confirm my previous. All IMHO that is. Could be wrong. I’ve been wrong before! To answer your Quest(ion)… that’s for ff to explain but not me.

    • Good luck there James. Sounds like you are confident with a complete solve. What state do you search?

    • Good luck to you as well, Amy. I, for one, am glad you’re so excited about Colorado. That leaves one more serious treasure hunter out of New Mexico. I hope to be headed there (again) soon. 🙂

        • And that leaves one excited treasure hunter out of Colorado 🙂 lol good luck to u JC if u go soon .

        • Amy, To answer your question…I believe there is a Treasure in New Mexico…and I hope to be going there soon. 🙂

    • Ok–you know a great deal more than me. I’m green with envy Amy. You know what would be cool, if Forrest would tell us a golfing story, has he ever been? I mean every guy his age plays golf, don’t they?

      • Yes, Close earth –

        Forrest does play golf – this is a quote from his complete story of “A War For Me”.

        “My great friend, Bob Lynch spent seven years confined, five of them in solitaire confinement, only to be released and return home to die of cancer. I cried when I saw him limp down the steps of his freedom plane and across the tarmac to kiss the pavement. This experience was so distant from the many afternoons we had laughed around the golf course at Scott Air Force Base. ”

        It would be fun to hear more of these stories.

          • …you are missing the point.
            Spend 3 minutes researching Nam POW’s, there never was a Robert, Bob, Billy-Bob, etc. Same with Babe Vs. Baby Ruth. People, this isn’t a door prize, you can’t win just by showing up…Work for it

          • Well nine clues I spent a lot less than three minutes and came up with this. Maybe it’s you that is missing the point.

            In 1967, a group of combat-experienced fighter pilot volunteers were brought together in South Viet Nam to form a top secret squadron with a now-famous callsign — MISTY. They were stationed first at Phu Cat Air Base, then in 1969, they moved to Tuy Hoa Air Base. Their mission was to fly fast and low over enemy territory, armed with only their cannons and marking rockets… so low that they could see the targets… SAMs, AAA sites, trucks, bridges, boats, bulldozers… whatever. Their goal was straightforward: disrupt the transfer of enemy supplies and equipment down the Ho Chi Minh trail. When a Misty located one or more of these targets, he directed Air Force and Navy fighter strikes against them. Mistys flew the two-seat version of the Super Sabre, the F-100F, and although they flew fast (350 to 550 MPH), and they continually jinked (i.e., changed direction) to spoil the enemy’s prediction of where to aim, still, 28% of the Misty pilots were shot down during the three years they were active. Their first commander, Colonel Bud Day, was one of those shot down, and he became a POW in the Hanoi Hilton. Those who survived went on to important positions, including two Air Force Chiefs of Staff, seven general officers, two astronauts, numerous industry CEOs, and the first man to fly around the world unrefueled in a light aircraft.

            Misty 64 Robert Lynch retired from the Air Force to Tennessee and died of natural causes about 1994.

            http://www.mistyvietnam.com/wherenow.html

        • Inthechase, it breaks my heart just thinking about what Forrest’s friend endured as a POW, or what children endure in abusive homes.

          It goes to prove that life is not lived externally but internally from an indominatable spirit that triumphs. We are spiritual beings who are hard wired for adversity – It make us stronger. However, each of us needs a friend who sticks closer than a brother and shares our love and laughter. Without Peggy and his daughters would Forrest have found faith and fortitude to survive cancer?

          • Goofy,
            …believe me I read 2 dozen books on the Vietnam war and books like ‘Bury me Upside down’ I read twice. I gained an enormous respect for what every soldier was put thru. My own father in-law was Army counter intelligence/worked, on McNamara’s fence. And even though he is 84, he still won’t say a peep.

            I am just saying, as far as the “official list of 591 POW’s returned” goes, it does not show anyone named Lynch on there. Sounds like another CIA cover-up, after all pilot John T. Halliday (night mission cargo planes) would never get credit for His downing of a Russian cargo helicopter.

        • If I were in Mr. Fenn’s place those events would be at the core of my soul and the pain would be too great to discuss. Just picture Mr. Lynch being confined for 7 years and what he endured must have been unspeakable. For Mr. Fenn to see his good friend limping must surely have crushed his soul.

      • Close earth

        Forrest and Golf well that might bore him that’s not adventure, all u do is try to hit a ball in a hole.
        The golf courses are beautiful and that’s about it 🙂

        • Amy i’m beginning to believe he actually put it in a hole on the golf course. Ha ha now wouldn’t that be a good one.

          • You guys are killing me. Lots of laughter 🙂 So all a guy really needs is a sand wedge to dig this out?

          • 42 –

            Oh my – that bear wants some fun too.

            Everything here lately is tugging at my heart strings. I feel so for those who did not have the opportunities to grow up in a good family environment like I did.

            As for our service men and women – I just can’t thank them enough for their valiant service.

            Forrest has allowed us a peek into what a good man thinks. I am so grateful for the learning opportunity and the fun.

  62. I’m not sure this is right, but on the map, the only public lands noted are under the poem, the title, and the little paragraph under the title. What does highlighted really mean? Highlighted as in brightly noticeable, or high lighted, as in high contrast? Which means, IMO, we can’t really be one hundred percent positive of how big an area the map really shows. All we know is that it’s North of Santa Fe, in the Rocky Mountains, not in Idaho or Utah, and between certain elevations. I think all the areas on the map that fit that criteria whether highlighted or high lighted, are search worthy.

    • So, if the poem on the map is written in the same color and font as “Public Lands” does that mean the chest is hidden on public land? Also, remember Forrest describes BLM land as land “owned by the public,” but managed by the government.

    • Add one more area of focus. Highlight can also be defined as bleached. I now understand the map’s suggestion as a non-clue.

    • Mindy,
      I may have missed your comments being synonymous with bleached. If so, you probably see this as a non-clue also?

      • Thanks, One. So Nevada is definitely ruled out, but what about Arizona? The same Wikipedia entry that has the map in your link also says this:

        “The word “Mountain” refers to the Rocky Mountains, which run north-south through portions of the states of Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, and New Mexico. Arizona and Nevada, as well as other parts of Utah and New Mexico, have other smaller mountain ranges and scattered mountains located in them as well.”

        I’ll have to look into it more when I get home.

        But the Rumors Abound definitely has great info. I’ve read it before, but that was quite a while ago. Thanks again!

        • Mindy, just a reminder:
          AZ, ID, and UT have been officially ruled out by FF.

          4 states remain in TTOTC : NM, CO,
          WY, MT

          • …sneaky is as sneaky does, no telling where the Chase may begin. It could begin in one of the adjoining states left or right, seriously doubt Mexico factors into this, with all of the problems they’ve had

  63. Mindy

    Good luck figuring that map out.
    I think that’s a tough one.
    Remember Boots on the ground
    And when u are searching how massive everything is around you.
    Just like when I go in June I have a spot and area that I will search, on the satallite map it looks easy but when I’m there it may not be 🙂

  64. Has anybody caught this? Forrest says that the treasure is more than 5 000 feet above sea level, but on his website it is said the treasure is hidden more than 5 000 feet above sea level. Has he come out to clarify this? Does anybody know? Thanks. RC.

  65. So Okay f, I’ve been slacking, lurking, keeping my pot to myself… but you must want this found huh?. I thought it was a slow roll but it’s not… it’s time I’m think n’! Now if I only knew what H.E.-dbl-hockey sticks I was talking about…lol.
    Checking in as a very serious New Mexico Hunter!
    Mark H. Smiles

  66. Does anyone know if there has been any comments or quotes in references to Kansas directly from ff?

  67. Isn’t there something in the thrill of the chase my war for me chapter about the green grass knowing?

  68. Christopher Pittman on January 13, 2015 at 9:30 am said:

    I have come to believe it’s all about the “Thrill Of The Chase” and nothing more.

    In an interview of Forrest, he said he hid the chest 15 years after he got sick with cancer in 1988. So 15 years from 1988 is 2003.

    He said in another interview after being told he had a 20 percent chance of living three years, he decided to hide the chest and made the poem. After getting well he had to rewrite the original poem which said “just take the chest and leave my bones”.

    And finally he has said he hid the chest when he was 79 or 80 years old. He doesn’t want anyone knowing the exact years which is why he says 79 or 80. Even so that would still make it 2009 or 2010.

    So here’s the problem.

    According to Forrest, he either hid three different chests or the same chest three different times. The first time from 1988-1991 or in 2003 or in 2009-2010.

    I find it difficult to understand and believe a person can’t remember what year he hid a chest full of gold. Why is it so hard to get the story straight and stick with the same time theme.

    As much as I would like to believe the chest exists I no long do so.

    I feel Forrest wants people to get out and enjoy the outdoors with family and friends and to experience what nature has to offer in all it’s beauty.

    I also feel it’s like Forrest has said, “It’s not who you are, It’s who people think you are” and It’s all about the “Thrill Of The Chase”…

    My response is…….

    This topic has been covered many times. When forrest was diagnosed with cancer in 1988, he came up with the idea to hide the chest, worked on the poem,and wrote his stories. you don’t beat cancer overnight. To become cancer free and confident perhaps six years went by making it 1994 when forest beat cancer and decided to hide the chest anyway. But as he says, he is a procrastinator. Making plans is antagonistic to freedom or something along those lines. So 15 years later in 2009 he hid the chest after he had beaten cancer in 1994. He changed the poem because he beat cancer and no longer was going to carry off the chest somewhere and die along with it. But the spot has never changed. And Forrest would still like to be with the treasure when he dies. However, much of what you say is true. Forrest does want people to get out, forrest does want people to experience the thrill of the chase, but what you got wrong was there is a treasure. The old man put it out there. He’s sneaky, he’s crafty, but there’s a method to his madness and it does not entail making up a story that isn’t true. He buried bells, he buried jars, and he cached the treasure. He has concreted his legend. people will look for his chest for many years to come. His name will be known. Then it will fade over time. But a thousand years from now when somebody finds that treasure Forrest Fenn will once again roll off of the tongues of people he will be one of the few that’s a sands of time linger for. I believe this is his plan. I believe there is a treasure. I believe the poem will take you there if you start from the right place. I believe there are subtle hints in the book that are not deliberately placed to help you find the chest but if we recognized can help you solve the clues in the poem. And I believe you are wrong.

    • 42 –

      Don’t know if you were around when he asked us all to send him our best Pimento Sandwich recipe –

      Your doin good

      Indigo is one of the colors of the rainbow – ——

      • @ Inthechase, thx, I wasn’t around in the pimento recipe days. Sounds like cheese sands were a necessity w/o refrigeration for fried chicken, which sounds like a day on the river.Found other articles about the clubhouses concrete construction being first in US, good for insulation year round.and also how it’s not a formal museum but old farmhouse type museum which holds golfing treasures and memorabilia.

      • Inthechase, do you have a nickname? Maybe In or Chase? JK
        Indigo is a regal shade I love. Also works nicely with Dig-in-go.
        Perhaps I’ll dig in some sand traps, lol! Still not sure what you are driving at with pimento etc.

        • Many here call me into – that’s fine as I am into the chase.

          Keep in mind what this hunt is all about – you know it.

  69. You guys just built such a strong case around golf courses that I’m going to have to just go and get in my car and then walk to the treasure. Forrest did say take a “sandwich” “Sandwidge” same difference and flashlight to look in the whole. Be back in a few days. Thanks guys for the info.

    • 9 holes, 9 clues, 18 holes is too far to walk. Forrest is on the back nine. Look on the 16th hole. 16th line of the poem is take the chest and go in peace. But tarry scant in marvel gaze. Pace of play is important. 🙂

    • I always tell everyone start with Dals cheat sheet. Don’t feel guilty after looking at it, we’ve all peaked.

    • But on a more helpful note… start with this website…and…

      http://www.chasechat.com/chat/

      ….and…

      http://mysteriouswritings.com/

      Read all posts on these sites, all scrapbooks, all “Forrest Facts”

      Also order his book “The Thrill Of The Chase”. “Too Far To Walk” would be another good addition. These two books describe Forrest Fenn in a way that other beings would not understand. They might help you in understanding his treasure and his life….but I warn you… time is running out 😉 oh… and remember to say these 3 letters before EVERY COMMENT….

      I. M. O.

      Welcome to the Chase.

    • Welcome 68U! Read the poem, read TTOTC and repeat about a zillion times first! Here, if I were starting out, I’d read the “cheat sheet” at the top of the page and go through the “important information” section found in the right column. Then read every Scrapbook from Forrest. That should keep you busy for a while! Good Luck – there is a ton of info to absorb. 🙂

    • 68 u

      You will have the time of a life right here on the blog, it will consume you, don’t be scared to read daily, every minute, every second. We are all addicted. 🙂

      We welcome you to the chase , keep in mind we are all experienced searchers 🙂 !!!!!

    • I would recommend the Media page on this blog it has four years of press interviews on radio, TV, and print with Forrest.
      I would also look at the video’s on this blog..Gone Fishing and Santa Fe interviews…

      Oh what the heck…
      Look at all the stuff on “Most Important Information”…
      That’s one of the menu items on the right hand side of this page…in orange type…
      That’s where you’ll find the most useful info about Forrest and the chase..

    • Welcome 68U –

      Forrest said that – if you don’t read anything else – read his story – A War For Me. If you don’t have the book (The Thrill of the Chase) There is a long version online – just google the name.

      Best of luck to you and most of all have fun.

  70. You guys rock! I’ll have more time to explore tomorrow. I just found out about Forrest Fenn yesterday from a friend at work. The poem is so much fun. Immediately I was thinking Colorado then I thought Molly Brown for HOB. I’m looking at the hanging lakes area now. I’ll try and keep my comments to a minimum until I know more. I’m so excited! This buddy of mine was telling me all about How Forrest was shot down in Vietnam. I can’t wait to get the books.

    • Welcome to the chase.

      In my opinion…..Take your time; forget about the “time is running out” stuff. A few searchers are always absolutely certain it will be found that year; happens every year…..Then the obsessive over emotional flakes grab a hoodie and hop into their two wheel drive preppy mobile and head to the mountains in the middle of winter and end up in trouble. So remain calm there’s plenty of time to panic later.

      Watch all the videos on the top right of the page, Dal did a great job on these; this is as close as us mortals will get to sitting down and talking with Fenn at length. Then read through the media page and important info page, then read everything else and make lots of notes as you go through the info……you’ll be sorry if you don’t.

      One of my favorite post is Dal’s two part coyote story.

      http://dalneitzel.com/2011/09/25/coyote-part-one/
      http://dalneitzel.com/2011/09/24/coyote-part-two/

      You can check out anytime you like;
      But you can never leave

    • 68U,
      There are many paths that will lead yoy to the treasure. My question to you is, what path led you to Molly Brown? I was led to Molly Brown as well and it brought about enthusiasm in my chase. Please enlighten us to the path that led you to Molly Brown? I thank you in advance for your response for taking the time to respond.
      Thank you Dal for providing this avenue which allows us to communicate with fellow chasers.

      • Slurbs,
        I don’t have a real reason. My connection was more of a trigger. I had read about Molly Brown in a book prior to knowing anything about Forrest so when my friend brought up the chase I immediately thought of the Molly Brown house. I couldn’t tell you if its a realistic home of Brown.

  71. It is very exciting 68U. Welcome to the chase..!
    Lou Lee, chased by bears in Jellystone park and lived to tell.

  72. Welcome 68U, As a relative newbie myself I also welcome you to this Thrilling Chase. I started The Chase about 15 or 16 months ago and it’s been fairly uneventful. I wish I had some exciting stories like some of the other searchers. I suppose I might have some stories to tell if I ever actually got out to search. It seems like everyone who gets out of the house eventually has an adventure or two to talk about later. I think all the advice that others have shared is great. You should definitely buy Forrest’s 2 books…The Thrill of the Chase and Too Far to Walk. I highly recommend them. Forrest is an incredibly entertaining writer and you’ll have a great time reading those books…no matter how far into The Chase you eventually find yourself. Dal also does a great job on this website and there’s some great stuff to read here, also. I really appreciate the participation of everyone here. It makes The Chase all that much more fun.

    One more thing, every now and then Forrest will have a contest of some sort in which everyone is welcome to participate. My wife won the last one and received a WAY COOL prize from Forrest! Forrest is such an awesome person. If you don’t believe it just ask me! 🙂 Or buy the books and read them…and see for yourself.

  73. Concerning the nine clues………

    Has anyone considered the fact that the TTOTC book has 9 “signatures” or 9 “sections” contained therein??

    Maybe each clue in the poem pertains to a specific signature/section of the TTOTC book……..

    To further understand this, let’s first define some book terms……..

    A “leaf” is an old name for what we think of as a page….. note that one leaf = 2 pages of text (front and back)….. we say, “turning the page”…… although it would be more accurate to say “turning the leaf”……. And that is the origin of the idiom “turning over a new leaf”…… i.e. to start a fresh page.

    A “bifolium” is a single sheet folded in half to make two leaves…… (so 1 bifolium = 2 leaves = 4 pages)

    A “section” is a group of bifolia nested together as a single unit. And a “signature” is a section that contains text.

    (For more info on bookbinding see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bookbinding)

    So…… lay your TTOTC book flat on a table and look at the top or bottom of the binding edges of your closed TTOTC book……. You will notice that there are exactly 9 sections (or signatures) that comprise the book.

    Each section/signature contains 16 pages…..which is the same as saying 8 leaves, or 4 bifolia…….. (pages 1-16 = signature #1, pages 17-32 = signature #2, pages 33-48 = signature #3, etc…….)

    But then when you get to page 129, THIS bifolium containing two leaves, or 4 pages (129-132) is glued to page 128……. It’s curious that the poem is contained on page 132 of this particular bifolium…….. and on page 128, the last sentence reads, “Surely that’s a design deficiency of some sort.” Of course this is a design deficiency! Why is the bifolium containing pages 129-132 glued to page 128?!? Seems odd………

    Anyway, at one time I thought maybe Fenn designed TTOTC to have exactly 9 “signatures” to correspond to the 9 clues of the poem……. That is, I thought maybe each clue in the poem could be understood to a corresponding signature in the book!

    Does this make sense? And does anyone have any thoughts about this?

    • Must be drinking another bottle of that 2009 Tenuta dell’Ornellaia!!

      I thought we went over that with a fine tooth comb already once before? 🙂

      • Yeah….. Sorry!

        I posted this on Chasechat early last year, and it got some good discussion……. but I never posted it at the “home of Dal”

        For the most part, I had given up on this idea bearing any fruit…… but just to make sure it’s not feasible, I figured I might as well give Dal’s audience a chance to shoot it down once and for all since there’s more readers here…….

        • Jason,

          Yes, the signatures idea was discussed fairly extensively at CC. The paste-up work apparently was done to change the composition of the book. There are photographs available of that section of the book with a different layout, and they were likely close to final production.

          I believe that they improved the layout of the book regarding the unbroken position of the poem and its context. I cannot at the moment direct you to those pictures, but I’m sure someone will post it.

          Halogetter

          • So could that mean that only one book actually has a layout that could break open the poem?

          • What Halogetter is referring to is the TTOTC pdf excerpt on Fenn’s website…..

            Here: https://www.oldsantafetradingco.com/assets/book-previews/thrill-of-the-chase.pdf

            The final layout was changed to make the poem appear all on one page whereas in the excerpt, the poem is broken up on two pages…….

            I don’t know if the 9 signatures mean anything or not….. but it is odd that pages 129-132 are just glued to page 128……… Any bookbinder worth his salt wouldn’t allow something messy like that, would they? Unless of course the author of a treasure book insists on it being so!!

            I suspect that Fenn has written more books than all of us combined……. So I’m fairly certain he has a good understanding of bookbinding and the number of pages required to make the binding process easy and efficient.

            Gluing pages together as an afterthought just doesn’t seem like something a professional would do……. So I think it was done on purpose – a purposeful “design deficiency”!! But why??

        • One of Forrest’s earlier scrapbooks (I don’t remember which one) had a story with pics from the press and bindery in Roswell that printed and finished TTOTC and I think he did another on finishing TFTW…That one would have been around Late July 2013.

          • I wouldn’t visit any other blogs either if I was able to get information straight from the horses’ mouth. 🙂

        • Your quite the researcher Jason. I’ve always appreciated your thoughts. And of course with my previous comment you know it was only in jest. 🙂 I figured you knew that though. Some people though will always take things the wrong way. …..not you. Nothing ever wrong with more discussion, …..because no one has it yet. And you are just the type of person to find it or perhaps flip the light switch in someone else. Glad you’re around!!

      • Hey Jason,
        Yep, this was talked about and gone over “with a fine tooth comb”…But so has every other thought, we the search community has been able to come up with. I for one don’t mind discussing older discussion that have been place on the back burner. Maybe by bringing them back up, new thoughts / idea will come from them.

        Even if others can’t understand that…

        I forgot, when adding lemon juice to the pages, What temperature is the oven set at to reveal the secret hidden message? lol.
        I enjoy your theories and thoughts…bring back as many older discussions ya like. a fresh look at an old idea maybe is what is needed…

        • @Seeker,

          LOL! I think the correct temp was Fahrenheit 451! Just remember to bake not broil……

          You never know! Recycling some of the old material might lead to a breakthrough…….

          I’m inspired by the energetic unflagging enthusiasm of the newbies! I remember being that way once……. I figured they might be able to make some sense out of the 9 signatures angle……

          I’m also tempted to re-kindle some of those idiom discussions as well…….. good stuff!

          • what did you just call me?

            Oh! Idioms… right. You mean like,
            “…in the wood…”

            Wonder if wood could refer to a Story in or two “in the Book”.

            Well, break a leg, with that one! you might have bit off more than you can chew

          • @Seeker,

            “I’m all ears”…….. Look at the ears in the drawings in TTOTC and tell me you don’t see numbers!!

    • Jason-

      Wow…fascinating..I had no idea…thanks for the Cliff Notes version of book printing…
      Interesting ideas there!!

      • Dal,

        Can you ask Forrest about this and get back to us? That is, did he create TTOTC with the 9 sections/signatures on purpose? And also why the bifolium comprising pages 129-132 is glued in?

    • Jason, a creative organized perspective. Is anyone steaming or cutting open the glued pages \}}. Just kidding 😉

    • Jason,
      Remember the SB where Forrest said he had 8 pages of celebrity signatures? I was thinking celebrities=stars. And Forrest talks about stars a lot, but I’ve noticed he uses many different amounts of them:
      2 star general
      8 pages of stars
      10 cadets got gold stars after peeing in gas tank prank
      Etc…

      I’ve also considered stars as asterisks, but haven’t researched that yet

    • Jason, I Googled up that word bioflium and my computer started smoking again so I quickly opted out. There are 9 signatures in TTOTC and 130 is the last page in the 8th, which makes 131 the 1st page in the 9th. If you have a boiflium in your book, it’s a binding error, which might double it’s value. Will you sell it for a crisp new $100 bill? Please say, “Yes Mister Fenn.”

      And while we are off the subject, I’ll toss a commercial in here. I hope to print my biography of Leon Gaspard in the next month of so. It’ll have 400 pages, about 180 color plates, and 80 or so vintage photos. The book is my tenth, my last, and my flagship. I may try to talk Dal into selling it for me if he’s not too used up by then. f

      • Well, back to the drawing board………..

        And “Yes Mr. Fenn”, I’ll sell my battered, used, and abused TTOTC book back to you for $100!

        It’s in the mail………

      • Mr. Fenn, congratulations!! Is it possible to preorder the Gaspard biography? I’ve enjoyed “Teepee Smoke” and “Seventeen Dollars A Square Inch” immensely and look forward to reading your storied account of Leon Gaspard.

      • TOTALLY looking forward to the book forrest! 🙂 I must admit a bit of melancholy at the thought of it being your last. 🙁

      • Jason – Was your TTOTC book a third printing? Mine is and it has the 4 page bifolium glued to page 128 as well. I always hated how page 128-129 doesn’t lay flat like all the other pages, and the gap in the binding where the 9th signature begins has always been a bit of an eyesore.

        I did the math on the signatures: 8 signatures multiplied by 16 pages puts the last page of the 8th signature at page 128 (8×16=128). Throw in this bifolium of 4 pages gets us to page 132. The 9th signature with 16 pages puts us at page 148, the last page of the book.

        I suspect that this isn’t a one off error and you might be getting a good deal on that $100! If it is a two off error, I just might have a book I might want to sell as well!!! 🙂

  74. Hmmm… I was looking at his second book “Too Far Too Walk” the other day and noticed that you can see the thread bindings or -what ever the term is – in different sections of the book. I just thought it was a sign that since he actually published the book himself he did it right… “as in a high quality manner”…. I think it is just Forrests making a high quality book… I would not expect any less from him… Maybe I need to look into book binding to confirm my theory…

    • Spallies, that’s correct, stitched bindings are superior to glued binding and Forrest’s memoirs are nice quality books.

      • Until you read it dozens of times and all but tear the pages out. Haha. Mine is no loner in superior condition. I’ll look into the 128 idea above since the damage is already done.

  75. One of my out of the box theories is working out from a hot spring that used to be. Good luck

  76. SOME TIMES A FRESH START FIRE’S THINGS BACK UP

    Any one want to discuss the poem in it’s entirety. Like line by line?
    I think that could be a productive thing to do on this blog , not to mention F getting a kick out of us pondering over it.. =)

    As I have gone alone in there – How would be alone , In Where ? Why In there ?
    And with my treasures bold, – What Treasures Bold ?
    I can keep my secret where,- What Secret -Where Can I keep my secret? How ?
    And hint of riches new and old. – What riches ,HInt – What riches New and old ?

    Why don’t we just ask basic questions , How .. What … Where … When …Why…and apply them to which fits the kind of question the poem presents per-line… And we can try to at least solve one of these clues together and if you see more then the rest of us … GREAT
    ????????????? Anyone in???

    • How do we apply this to the first line? What can we learn form it . I mean pick it apart. There are a lot of Intelligent folks in here. Who are wise in their understanding and firm in logic. I know we all have a little understanding of this Chase . That’s why we do it right ? So I guess I will start with Line 1 . and if any one wants to chime in please feel free ….

      (As I have gone alone in there)
      This seems like a easy line to read. As I look at it, I see the question all of us see I think . Gone alone in where right? As I is understood pretty plainly. Gone suggests going to this place over a period of time… but where ???? In there suggests a confined area? not necessarily closed by 4 walls but confined never the less. So , this question is not answered in the text in this area of the poem . So , Could it be possible that you carry the question over until you find a answer in the poem ??? Or do we simply read it As Is . Where do we start to see where the poem locks. Dose it lock form this first line … It’s Possible no one has found it yet. And it seems to be the lingering question Where is “THERE”
      Where is the “home of Brown” , Where is Where Warm Waters Halt” , Where is the place he has gone alone into???
      But , have we applied all the other questions that may pertain to each line , not just Where… Where is JB … ???? I don’t like where anymore… lol…. So I ‘m gonna go to the first line and start asking different questions.. =)

      IMO the first line cannot be opened until you see the next line and the next line ect….
      Only my opinion … what’s yours?

      • My current theory I’m looking at is random logic and Foucaults logic. It sort of picks apart and helps find patterns in letters and gives ideas on assigning numbers to letter or words.

        It’s not messing with the poem. Simply analyzing it. Under a microscope. Lol.

        Remember, Forrest has implied that deep thinking is useful. Logic is apparently useful. The word “wise” is in the poem.
        Who is wise? Not owls–they’re just birds. Lol.

        However, there were some deep thinkers in Ancient Greece, where our ivory skinned Athena was revered. Pythagoras, Foucault (although he was a modern French philosopher) and others (except Plato, IMO), had some deep thoughts of their time.

        However, I’m also liking the golf course idea. Any golf courses in the Rockies have bronze sculptures? 🙂

      • Morning Mike & Mindy

        What I’ve been doing for over a year now is to look for keywords be it in the poem/book or scrapbooks. Then I look for associations. I have many circles and I mentioned this one other time that I grouped certain words into circles/boxes…methodically breaking down these associations by seeing links between certain ideas and connecting the words to them. I can’t get very specific withouth giving away too much BUT if your looking for an approach or method, that’s mine. When it’s all said and done I think we’ll find out that Forrest has a very powerful imagination. Visually what does an arrowhead look like? How does the word sound when you say it? That sort of thing. Have a great day. Brrr….bitter cold here BUT it’s looking to be a great day.

        P.S
        Loving the golf idea.

    • M or M, I think it’s a great idea to analyze the poem in this manner. I had been hoping someone would suggest this for a time now. I think it would also be nice to have the “Recent Posts” column on the right of the page broken down the same way. The only thing I would change would be to analyze the poem sentence by sentence instead of line by line since there are nine sentences in the poem. As it is now, the post name as “Nine Clues”, tends to get unorganized for us to be able to refer back to a certain part of the poem. Know what I mean? Thanks for suggesting this.

      • Yep I sure do .. And I thought it would be a good way to start looking for clues. I like the sentence by sentence .. Sure sounds good… You wanna start it off ??? =)

        • Doncha think we need to ask Dal if he could/would do the separate post titles on the right side of the webpage first? Or not….

      • Hey there!

        I have used the 9S9C theory as in there is one clue in each sentence that gives us a sense of direction in which way we are going. IMO the entire first stanza tells us where to start and end. The rest of the poem is a direction in words in getting there. Such as using the words to describe roads, rivers, creeks, towns, signs in the area (puns, anagrams and metaphors) (Example, Your effort will be worth the cold— this could mean that you are in a Cul-de-sac on a street named “cold” or something meaning effort, etc…)

        If you are able to find the hints in the TTOTC book, then you can confirm you are on the right path. I believe the hints in the book are unnecessary words used, or phrases that have no tie to a specific subject that he is talking about. There are a lot of specific numbers in the book, and they are usually a random set of numbers and not ending in a 0 or 5. So those could be hints of mile markers or signs of the area you could be in. Using this “code” of analyzing on the poem, might put you in the right direction.

        Honestly the key is knowing exactly where to start or this “code” will never work, and the odds of every correct clue and correct hint combined from the book and poem matched up with your “coded solve” along with using the poem as a map is probably unlikely to be in more than one location. , but using the words you see in line of the poem can be plugged into just about every location, as its obvious that thousands of people have searched many locations using the words they see in the poem. There are so many references of Brown that I see, but there are no references of any other words in that same line or sentence that I ever see (Capital B words), and that would narrow it down quite a bit.

        I am sure that a lot of people are using this method, but just haven’t found the right place to start at, and when that is found then I believe not long after, the TC will be found.

        This is just my simple open minded opinion.

        Any questions, just ask!

        Thanks! and Good Luck!

        • On the topic of codes (this may be an abuse of the poem and if so – sorry f), there is an app called enigma which represents a few enigma machines, codes. If there are hints in the poem or book that might represent the settings to be used to decipher a portion of the poem may create a key to the poem.

    • As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold, I can keep my secret where, and hint of riches new and old.

      I have looked at the first stanza from many different angles. Here is one looking at it written as a sentence. When I read it with no preconceived notions and try to understand it at face value, I get:

      There is a special place that I have gone to all by myself (more than once) and I also have taken my treasure chest, Indulgence, there too, I am not going to tell you where this place is, but I will give some hints about how you can find this special place where the treasure is hidden.

      f has said that the poem is straight forward, so the understanding one gets with an initial reading is most likely going to be in the ball park of being correct. Building detail onto that initial impression is not so easy.

      f has said that every word is deliberate, I have thought a lot about that and one of several conclusions is that he would have had to be very deliberate, he was writing a poem with rhyming words; in addition, he also was incorporating clues into the poem in a generalized way that would (1) not be obvious that everyone could easily figure out where to go and (2) creating some form of word design or play on words that would allow for them to somehow be unlocked and make perfect sense so as to instill confidence in a person.

      Something I think about: f says he went “in” there and then tells us to take it “in the canyon down”. I grew up playing and hiking a lot in canyons (it is fascinating to see how a very large tire can be affected by gravity when standing at the top of a steep mountain; some great lessons in the principles of physics are revealed). How does knowing that he went “in” to his spot and that we have to go “in” the canyon relate to this special spot? And given the poem says “in the canyon down”, what are the implications of down as a direction? I found it to be a very interesting exercise to form a mental picture and then try to draw what I visualized in my mind. Given my lack of skills as an artist, it wasn’t anything that I think will sell for much, but it did allow for imagination to be expressed and a whole new level of thinking to occur.

      I think that is enough for now, I don’t want to write a book here.

      • As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold, I can keep my secret where, and hint of riches new and old.
        JCM, Your face value paragraph is exactly how I interpret it also. It comes across as an introduction to get one to contemplate where this special place could possibly be.
        This of course comes after reading the poem and book numerous times until you begin to form a concept or idea as to what you believe the reason is for him writing TTOTC.
        Forrest has mentioned getting the kids out of the game room and get people out in the mountains, (something like that) but is that the only reason, or is there more to it? IMO, I think there’s more to it than that.
        Everyone’s concept or view could be very different from one another’s and this is where the waters begin to get a little murky. We all have too many different opinions as why Forrest is doing this.
        Maybe we need to first ask ourselves… “So why is it that he must go and leave his trove for all to seek?”, which is sentence six, then start back at sentence one after we have formed our own opinion as to his motive.
        Or… Do it however you like… I am just offering my input as to how I am going about it.

        • “So why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek” As the way that line is laid in context in the poem, I see it as him going into a “town, or community or city” of some sort and leaving a “town or a community or a city” of some sort, as right before those lines he states, Just take the chest and go in peace”.. IMO. those are the little tricks ff is playing throughout the entire poem.

        • From “My War For Me”, this is the answer I attribute to f for leaving his trove for all to seek:

          The fun side is that it really doesn’t matter who we are if we are someone to ourselves. No one else can think my thoughts, so I am myself only to me. Does that make sense? So, to be important I only need to impress myself. And I can do that if others are positively affected by what they see in me or see me do.

          Why do the yellow and purple flowers flourish where no one is there to see? The answer is at last obvious to me. No one has to see what is there. The grass sees, and the tree and rushing water of the spring creek also see. What has made me think that I had to see the beauty that is there in order to confirm its existence?

          We are all here only for the pleasure of others. Everything living, only for the pleasure of others. Of course, that’s it! That’s why the stone marker said “…and smile at a homely girl…” It had to be pounded into me! That’s why all of Philadelphia was reduced to a thumbnail, to show me that each one is as important as the all, myself no less than any of them, and no more. It seems obvious to me now that we are all temporary statements, like a cut bouquet on the living room table to make brief comments in passing and maybe cause a smile, then go on to make room for others who will play their parts. Thank you Mr. Shakespeare.

          When this realization hit me, at last I knew. If I cannot enrich those with whom I interact each day and cause them to be better for my having passed their view, then I have wasted my turn. That I succeed in this endeavor is not as important as it is for me to make a solid try. For if the try is sincere I have succeeded in whatever failure resulted.

          • JCM

            I am just trying to put this on a map. The only thing in what you just said that i have ever seen on a map is Philadelphia. How can you adjust or interpret the words in the poem to create a map that gets you from point A to point B? Remember you only need the poem. Get me?

        • JCM and WiseOne…I must apologize for not responding earlier, I didn’t get to check the blogs until this morning…Just wanted to add my own input…

          IMO the who, what, when, where, why, and how are all answered in this first stanza…

          IMO you are both close to discovering the secret in the first stanza but missing something very important to that effort…f’s method to keep it…

          IMO you are equating ‘face value’ with literal interpretation of the words used by f in this stanza…Very little in this entire poem can be taken literally…His hints are straight forward but with a twist…In many instances they are very similar to crossword clues…

          IMO JCM your (1) and (2) above are entirely correct…Keep searching for the answers…They are there and they just may unlock the poem for you…

          Good luck to you and good hunting…

          • Yes, I recall forrest saying some of the words in the poem, mean very little and others are the key, well something like this.

          • Good Morning Lou Lee…I can’t quote exactly but it’s on Jenny Q & A…

            He said something to the effect that there were some words in the poem that would not aid you in locating the treasure but it was risky to discount any of them…

            IMO you just have to figure out which ones…Easy peasy!…LOL…

            Good luck and good hunting…

  77. Mr D said: not to mention F getting a kick out of us pondering over it.

    My impression from his scrapbook about the toothbrush is that you aint wise if you open your mouth.

      • Of course she is right . I kind of like that F sees the posts. It’s like watching monkeys using tools for the first time….
        lol
        A joke to cut the fog.
        Ill post more on the clues tomro… I’m taking er easy tonight. Plus after a long grueling information search
        and very little sleep I think this time it would be wise to use my tooth brush and see what everyone else say’s today.

    • IMO, I think it’s safe to assume that if someone is close to finding the bronze chest then she (apparently) is smart enough to not say anything on the blogs. If it was me I wouldn’t say a single word.

  78. I haven’t checked this dopey web site in a while, lots of changes. 🙂

    http://wherewarmwatershalt.com/

    Scroll down to see the owl and a frog. The frog has a message, to listen to C. P. Stow???

    Whoever is involved wised up enough to remove the CE5 in the clouds.

    Just some of my opinions. 🙂

    • There’s a lot more there than one can see. I’ve been looking at it all morning, and found revealing things.

        • I can’t say special… its very revealing. The web page has been “evolving” Brazen Bull on Chase Chat.com just showed me this….

          https://web.archive.org/web/20140710001057/http://wherewarmwatershalt.com/

          its the archive of the webpage and its growth from inception back in Jan 1996. (date slider in the top to check different dates). I fully believe now that this is the work of Forrest Fenn. Why? Well let me ask everyone a painfully obvious question… If the world only became known of Forrest Fenn and his treasure in 2010, then why is wherewarmwatershalt.com dating back to 1996??, around the same amount of years Forrest said in 2011 interviews..that he had been working 15 years on it? Think about that. How could someone make a scam website to track searchers with imbedded cookies(that’s what many claim this is) if the website has existed 15 years before any human being even started the Chase or knew who Forrest was?

          • actually take that back….perhaps the slider doesnt apply to the site back that far? it shows two captures from the site but it dates the domain back to 1996 unless that is just a “general” time slider.

            Hrmm

          • Ok I see…that date slider is just a general slider I think… Who is’d the site and it says it was created May of 2014.

          • Hmmm Iron Will…. I’m not a programmer so I can’t help you much… About all I can make sense of is the resolution… Maybe Goofy can take a look and let us know what he thinks…

          • Iron, I see you are answering your own questions.

            Internet Archive started in 1996, not the “goofy” website. (Sorry, Goofy-Old-Guy, not a reference to you.) 🙂

            It has been blatantly clear the author is a misinformed searcher. IMHO.

          • Wow what was that? So this is what warm waters looks like, the spot? Maybe? Oh My God, I think I know were this place is.

          • If you look close enough in one area you can see the chest what is possibly the chest 😛

          • You guys need to get out more. lol
            The wayback machine has been around since 96, that website appeared a few months ago.
            We have been discussing it on ttotc.com and chaseschat for months.

            Its an interesting website but no proof who it belongs to or if it applies. Maybe its someone who will be marketing something chase related?

            Check back from time to time to see the changes. At one time were were able to comment on the website, but the owner locked that down.

          • Deb, you need to read more. 🙂

            I merely pointed out some changes because I hadn’t checked it in a while and no one has commented on it in a while.

            If you are competing different web sites, this was discussed here much more than months ago.

            Stay cool. 😉

    • Thanks Specialklr!!! I thought the letter in the clouds were CES… CE5 makes a lot more sense… I have no clue what the message from the frog means. I am feeling a bit dim today…:) Maybe someone else will have a clue…

    • Actually I believe reading all the blogs can be helpful. Why does it have to be a competition? Each one has its strenghts and weaknesses. Many different ways to approach the same subjects. There is room for everyone.

  79. I retract my comment about the enigma machine (codes). See f comments below. (My emphasis on the word code). I do not intend to mislead new folks.

    “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, CODES, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.” f

  80. I guess anyone could put something like this up. I guess I need to check out Chase chat. Still I know a place that looks just like this and it is warm. not hot. So well maybe, well maybe forrest can tell us if its from him or not. Just so we dont go on anymore needless wild goose chase’s…..So forrest, can you kindly let us know? IS this from you? Much respect
    Lou Lee

  81. Today on my way home I was going over a bridge, and I did notice this black bird flying low I thought maybe it will fly up, nope the poor bird hit my windshield and messed my windshield wiper up.
    Is there anything superstitious about this. I feel so bad for the bird 🙁 the bird had to be black 🙁

      • I add my thoughts on first stanza:

        As I have gone alone in there – what has gone in there?

        And with my treasures bold, – and brings treasures

        I can keep my secret where, – and is hidden away

        And hint of riches new and old. – yet a hint of me remains

        • OneCorgi, I’ll add my comments to yours regarding the first two lines:

          “I” going alone in there could be:
          -1 person
          – Forrest Fenn
          -The treasure chest
          – an entity placed into the chest like his 20k word biography
          – Metaphorically, one goes alone into grief, death, the horrors of war, or a reckening with their Maker.

          And with my treasures “bold”
          Bold is modifying treasures which are bold. Under standard grammar rules the correct way to indicate the person went in bold would be to use the adverb ‘boldly’

          IMHO FF went alone into a place more than once, and he has joined bold treasures in the same place. Treasures could mean natural wonders.

          Or Forrest used poetic license to infer going boldly, but used bold as it worked better with the poem. Maybe all of the above are applicable.

          • Onecorgi and lia…if I may add a little input as well…

            1st line…Not only who/what ‘have gone alone’ but also where is ‘in there’?…

            2nd line…Is there a when and why to answer here as well?…

            3rd line…What is the ‘secret’ and does ‘where’ equate to ‘in there’?

            4th line…Could the ‘hint of riches’ mean the ‘clues’?…

            IMO forget standard grammar rules…This is f’s game and his rules…

            A word of advice?…I would not play “Scrabble” with this man!!…lol…

            Good luck and good hunting…

          • I just read my post again and noticed that the first stanza, in my interpretation, can resemble a poker hand.

            One joker is in my hand, I feel bold about the pot now, I’ll keep it a secret as I bluff good/bad hand.

    • Ouch Amy!! If it makes you feel better I have never heard of any Black Bird Superstitions only black cats…:) But my take on superstitions is that if you believe it will all be ok… All will be ok… imho ofcourse

    • There have been times I’ve narrowly missed birds with my car and I always wondered how they could get out of the way at just the last second…but I guess not all of them do. :/

      • Like the time a bird bounced of my windshield while going about 50 mph; tumbled through the air and then bounced of the windshield of the car behind me. If it wasn’t dead after the first hit, it was after the second. Poor bird.

  82. So…..Forrest, is this from you, this “Warm waters halt” pages? Its so interesting. I am sure if it is not, you would tell us. Just so we would not be led astray…right? So If you do not confirm it is not. I will believe that it is.
    Chasers, do you think the frog voice sounds like Forrest? It kinda does. What do you think?
    Please Forrest let us know, much respect, thanks
    Lou Lee Lou Who.

    • You betcha Lou Lee…….sounds like a smart move. So everything Fenn doesn’t disavow means it’s him. He’s going to be a very busy man if he starts doing that.

      This site was discussed extensively before; I thought the general consensus was it was someone trying to drive up hits so they could sell the website. So basically a scam.

      As much as you’re promoting it maybe it belongs to you????

      • No not me…What? I was talking to forrest not you, do you speak for him? I never saw anyone talk about this before. Really. Whats up with YOU? WOW

        • No I don’t speak for Fenn. Apparently in your opinion anything Fenn doesn’t disavow means it’s true or belongs to him. You wrote: I am sure if it is not, you would tell us. Just so we would not be led astray…right? So If you do not confirm it is not. I will believe that it is.

          Just pointing out that probably isn’t a good strategy because as much misinformation, rumors, and outright lies that has been said about Fenn and the chase he wouldn’t have time to disavow all of it…….

          • I think this is what Fenn ment by his epitaph “I wish I could live to do, the things i was attributed to”

          • I have asked him about it and he did his usual evasive non answer. He said, yes thats a strange website isnt it?
            LOL

          • I don’t believe it’s Forrest, but that’s my own opinion on it. I think it’s great fun whoever is doing it.

            How could a consensus know? I don’t remember pulling out my voter’s registration lol…That was kinda harsh to Lou Lee Goof. If you believe what you do, it’s probably in your best interest to let believers believe IMO.

          • Well Grump OLd Guy…LOL…You will just have to get over me asking forrest a questions, cause lots of chasers do, Like deb…here….
            And for one thing I was not promoting anything….because I did not bring this up or even post the links to it. So why so accusing there GOD….Get over it. I will ask forrest anything I feel. And if I am lucky he will answer. If not BFD. Your just upset you didnt get a cool arrowhead from him like I did, and maybe even a special little tid bit of a hint….HEE HEE HEE

  83. I have a question for everyone.
    Do you think the 9 clues in the poem are each sentence since there are 9 sentences, or just a word or two in each sentence, or is there a meaning to the sentence that you need to figure out and that is the clue?

  84. Carolyn,
    I’ll add my opinion; IMO the poem contains 9 clues, in consecutive order; and the poem and the book also contain many hints that may not be in consecutive order. Many searchers disagree with me. Have fun searching!
    Geoff

  85. Thanks for your answers yall. I haven’t decided yet what I think about it. I think there is a clue in each of the 9 sentences, just have to figure out how.

  86. This is very, very interesting to me. It is a small excerpt from one of Foucault’s books you can read online. Notice the reference to table (desk?) and shadow, and…lots of other things…

    Absurdity destroys the and of the enumeration by making impossible the in where the things enumerated would be divided up. Borges adds no figure to the atlas of the impossible; nowhere does he strike the spark of poetic confrontation; he simply dispenses with the least obvious, but most compelling, of necessities; he does away with the site, the mute ground upon which it is possible for entities to be juxtaposed. A vanishing trick that is masked or, rather, laughably indicated by our alphabetical order, which is to be taken as the clue (the only visible one) to the enumerations of a Chinese encyclopedia… What has been removed, in short, is the famous “operating table”; and rendering to Roussel a small part of what is still his due, I use that word “table” in two superimposed senses: the nickel-plated, rubbery table swathed in white, glittering beneath a glass sun devouring all shadow — the table where, for an instant, perhaps forever, the umbrella encounters the sewing-machine; and also a table, a tabula, that enables thought to operate upon the entities of our world, to put them in order, to divide them into classes, to group them according to names that designate their similarities and their differences

  87. People fond of 9S9C theory (as someone put it previously), are casually dismissing Forrest’s own remark: There are 3-4 clues right there in the second stanza.

      • I too recall f saying something very close to this in an interview. I will search for it

      • its on the media page, CBC “as it happens” radio interview

        what he actually says , in response to a reading of the 2nd stanza, that it “sounds like” 3 or 4 clues. i am reciting from memory so you’ll have to listen for those concerned to confirm, but it’s iffy if this is meant as a fact

      • Goofy, maybe here???….from Media Page
        This is from the CBC radio program “As It Happens” and aired in March of 2013.

        http://lummifilm.com/blog/CBC2013.mp3

        @~4:40, radio host reads second stanza and says, ” seems like a couple of clues to me.”

        Fenn replies, laughing, “sounds like 3 or 4 to me!”

        Now, maybe he meant it or it may have been tongue-in-cheek. Guess you can hear it how you want??

        He did not say, “There are 3-4 clues right there in the second stanza.”

        That interview is the only place, that I recall, where he said anything like that. If anyone has another one, please post!!!

        • Yes Chris and loco, that’s the interview I was thinking of. I didn’t use quotation marks because I know that’s not exactly how he said it.

          Now, it could be a tongue in cheek retort, but I tent to believe it’s the truth… well, there is only one who knows for sure 🙂

          • So Forrest is an antiquities dealer now??? I thought he was an art dealer? Maybe it’s just schemantics but that was the first time I had heard that term used… Nice inerview thanks for sharing…

          • LOL!! Liv, we’re cool….FWIW, I believe 3 of the Clues are in there and one hint!!! 🙂

        • I just listened to that portion of the interview again, and it’s true that they started laughing after his remark… but then she said that you have to know where HOB is and he answered “and you have to know wwwh”… so there: at lest two things that you have to know, therefore two clues in the stanza 😉

          Now considering that the title of the next book is lifted straight from the same stanza, maybe tftw is a third clue.

          • Absolutely Liv!! And then you have “take it in the canyon down”. That’s the other clue in stanza 2. (IMO).

            Then, when you get to “in the wood” and identify it, it reinforces that you are in the correct canyon…IMO 🙂

        • Thanks loco and Chris…….I remember that now. I agree I think he was kidding around with the interviewer…….but this is why I think everyone should do their research. Different folks hear the same interview and come up with different opinions.

      • f was questioned about it on Jenny’s site:

        Question posted 7/4/2014:

        You told a reporter that there are three or four clues in the second stanza. Were you telling the truth? ~Alison R

        I don’t know what it is about girls but when I say something they automatically ask if I’m lying. Shame on you Allison R. I promise you that I get more things right than most reporters. If you were here I would make you take a dose of castor oil. Besides, if I lied to the reporter what makes you think I would tell you the truth?

        Sorry Alison, I’m off my soap box now. No, I was not lying but I don’t remember a reporter asking me such a question.f

        I always wondered how the 9s9c folks rationalized the statement… Ignorance is bliss I guess.

        • Of-course he does not remember such a question… She never really asked it as a question but it’s in the interview… imho…

          @~4:40, radio host reads second stanza and says, ” seems like a couple of clues to me.”

          Fenn replies, laughing, “sounds like 3 or 4 to me!”

          • He only said it “sounds like” 3 or 4 clues – my interpretation is that he wouldn’t be lying even if it was only 1 clue. He’s very sly and usually gives very ambiguous answers which are open to interpretation – dang it! 🙂

          • Spallies I agree……I remember that question on Jenny’s site now and doing the research on it. In my (our) opinion it wasn’t a question it was a remark and Fenn responded with a funny remark……I think context is important. He’s done the same thing on a few occasions.

          • CJinCA – Note that f was going off the question asked:

            You told a reporter that there are three or four clues in the second stanza. Were you telling the truth? ~Alison R

            There is nothing about “sounds like” in the question and he doesn’t remember the prior discussion taking place.

            Then he answers the question “that there are three or four clues in the second stanza with “I was not lying”.

            So we effectively have two separate instances of comments by f about there being 3 or 4 clues in the second stanza, both with positive acknowledgement of “sounds like” and that he wasn’t “lying” if he said that there were 3 or 4 clues.

            I am not so interested in unquestionably confirmed facts as I am of repeated patterns that give high probabilities of something being right. I think it is easier to embrace these patterns than to try and rationalize them away.

          • Forrest almost never corrects reporters when they make wrong statements, so even though the reporter said “you said there were 3 or 4 clues”, Forrest doesn’t say “I never said that” instead he says he wasn’t lying to the reporter …… and he doesn’t lie. He may not answer a question directly, but he won’t lie either. So, in the end we all have to decide for ourselves whether there are 3-4 clues in that stanza or only 1 clue and some hints. Forrest has made a few contradictory statements about the word “clue” since the publication of TTOTC but I think the last definition of a clue from him is different from what most people think of as a clue. He said something like a clue “leads a person to the treasure” (not an exact quote) so a statement like “It’s not in Idaho” is not a clue to him, but it sure was a clue to those of us who were looking there!

  88. I’ve read the comments on Jenny’s question about the end of 2014 and it got me thinking again about something that “bothers” me so here it is.

    Forrest must be receiving lots and lots of questions then he decides which ones to answer (maybe 2% of them all).

    So there was this interesting question from Steph “if anybody has seen or mentioned the blaze to him”, and he decides to answer with a non answer, BUT ANSWER IT NONETHELESS. Why?

    He could have just ignore this particular question, but NOOO… Forrest decidedly wants to answer this one 😉
    …and he says that he cannot answer it because “a yes or no answer would give too much away” 🙂

    Was he playing mind games with Steph because he surely got me scratching my head .

    How a NO, or YES for the matter, answer would give too much away?
    Stephanie, did you just send him a recent, at the time, solve?
    …say, around June 25, 2014? 🙂

    • I have read them several times very carefully. They appear subtle on the surface but they aren’t. A yes or no to either question would give too much away. ————-

      She must have sent him 2 or 3 questions. As far as him not answering the blaze question, I understand why he couldn’t.

      • Iron Will – note that there were two questions loaded into the one question that was asked:

        Has anyone seen the blaze and has anyone mentioned the blaze…

    • Liviu – f has made it a point in emphasizing that searchers have figured out the first two clues, but done it in a way that does not rule out that other clues have been figured out. His 2014 summary quote would strongly suggest that no one has figured out the third clue, but again, he states it in such a way that it is possible that clues beyond the 3rd clue have been solved. If he walked less than a few miles from his car to the special spot, and people have been within 500 ft, I think the likelihood that someone has figured out the blaze or at least seen it is high. So f saying yes or no to that question potentially would confirm to some one just how much they do or do not have correct in solving the clues.

      • I can see the logic in that… and then his answer would have to be YES
        … but what baffles me, is why he choose to answer THAT question? As Will pointed out she must have sent him several 🙂

        He surely doesn’t answer but a tiny fraction of them.
        Was he trying, in fact, to answer YES to it?

        • Liviu – The Steph that asked that question was Stephanie who set up chasechat.com. As I remember, she had sent him the details of a search she had just done including what the blaze was. She then submitted that question in hopes that he might confirm in some manner that she had gotten the blaze correct, thus the humor in his statement. f saw right through what she was trying to do.

          • JCM and Liv, I posted my story below about what happened when I asked that question. The reason I did was that there was no way I could get to it if it was. At that point it was just funny.

    • Liviu

      in my opinion …

      as you aptly point out, he decides not to directly answer the question but posts the non answer anyway. but notice how many words go into the “non” answer. there is something there, he just isn’t going to say it directly, whatever it is

      • I was typing trying to explain exactly what you’re saying more concisely here Chris. I need time to put forth half baked thoughts anyway 🙂

    • Yes I did. It’s a funny/sad story actually. Jeff and I had spent two weeks searching. My blaze was this GIANT dead tree at the base of…I think it’s Shadow rd in Taos. This tree was so different then everything else. It was a huge huge oak. Forrest wrote a poem about an oak that I loved. So this giant dead oak tree was my blaze(all the talk about dead). It was in the middle of the trees.

      Jeff and I were exhausted from searching for days…he hadn’t had his heart surgery yet so I was careful about letting him do things. So I went to the back of the campground and crawled through a chicken wire fence, went over a stream, crawled through raspberry bushes to this tree. I could not get around this thing with all the bushes. I was getting so stuck with those prickly bushes.

      So I crawled out, some how climbed up the stream bank myself, through the fence where Jeff was. We had to get home, because I care for my dad, and Jeff had a doc appt. So we leave and decide we’ll go back the following week better prepared.

      We get back bringing clippers to cut those bushes. The campground is closed for the year…what??? so we decide to go from the road side in. The TREE FELL!!!! In one week a 200 gazillion year old oak tree falls in the VERY week I am searching it. It did cross my mind that Forrest was upset with me and pushed it(kidding…sort of lol).

      So we clip bushes going from the road to the tree. Someone saw us, because when we drove away to take a break we saw someone pull over and look near there(who were you searcher person??). So we come back and I get all the way into the tree. I climb up on this massive truck and cry and cry and cry(have video because I’m that pathetic) lol…I can laugh now because I’ve decided if it’s there…it’s staying there….although if anyone goes there and gets it…you owe me! LOL

      Now if Forrest finishes this story and tells you that I went to forest service asked about tree cutting permits($25), and was very close to bringing out a tree cutting crew(they were willing)…I might deny it as I’m not so sure I want to admit to being THAT bad.

      So that is what happened prior to me asking that question.

  89. IMO –

    Here’s the deal on “9” clues – Forrest just loves to be right – without giving ALL the info – so he said there are nine clues – BUT there are MORE than nine clues.

    Does he have to hit you all over the head when he says there are three or four in the second stanza.

    It never concerned me once I knew there are more than nine. I wonder how many hours have been spend by searchers counting clues. It’s beyond Stupid and a total waste of time.

    IMO

  90. Inthe-

    I very respectfully disagree that that’s “the deal”.

    I put it to Forrest like this:

    Forrest, Did you intend for there to be 9 clues, or did it work out to be just right with 9? ~ halo

    “Nice thinking halo, I didn’t count the clues until the poem had been finalized. Although I changed it a few times over the months I think the number stayed about the same.f”

    I think the issue is what Forrest actually believes are “clues”, which perhaps get you closer to the treasure. He has also suggested to read every word, so he certainly feels that anything in the poem might be relevant or useful. But he apparently believes that there are recognizable clues.

    Perhaps the balance of the text includes hints to the clues, or support, or methods to unlock them, or context for the clues, or every word is part of a clue(!), etc. But he is strongly implying that there are about 9 clues, even while he is hedging somewhat in his response to me above!

    I believe there is an overt reason that Forrest tells us “9 clues” many times over, while at the same time telling us that he did not set out from the begining of writing the poem to hit that number. That implies that 9 is residual, not formative to the structure of the poem. And then 9 took on a life of its own.

    I also believe there is a specific reason why he is not absolute with the 9. Refer back to the “sounds like 3 or 4 to me” statement. Then tell me if you think wwwh and canyon, as he reads aloud those two lines in an obviously continual manner, is one or two clues…

    So, what Forrest believes to be a clue is essential to the reading of the poem. Perhaps he would have saved everyone a lot of trouble if he just said that there are clues in the poem.

    Halogetter

    • Inthechase,

      I agree with Halo, I don’t see more than 9 clues. I do see many many many hints.

      This brings us back to what is a “clue” and what is a “hint”. Fenn comments/statements have seemingly used the word “Clue” constantly. But yet, “hints” in the poem.

      I’m looking at the poem as, “all hints” that when understood, gives each sentence a specific understanding thus making the sentence a single clue in it’s self.
      We have broken down the poem to each word, phrase, sentence…But at some point, we need to understand it as a whole. The whole, being 9 sentences that if understood correctly, from all those hints…Take you to the chest.

      So why is it that fenn repeatedly in comments uses the word “clue” and in the poem tells of hint? For me IMO, this is the same conundrum as is the chest hidden or buried. Some would say “covered” is buried, others say that just hidden. I thing the poem works relatively the same way…

      I see hints that reveal what the poem is as a whole and not piece to be broken down into clues.
      9 sentence to follow in consecutive order.

      Now where to start? is a whole other topic.

      • Seeker – in regard to f using hint in the poem… He stated he looked up the meaning of words, and can you imagine him finalizing the poem with “and clue of riches new and old.” :).

        We’d all be questioning his ability to write poetry! 🙂

    • Well written comment Halo…….and interesting question/answer you had with Fenn. As you and Seeker say the issue seems to be what Fenn calls a clue. Without rehashing the great useless clue debacle, Fenn does seem to have a different definition of a clue than most of us. Like Ken pointed out below the book calls them clues and obviously the poem calls them hints. Then he muddied the waters with what he considers a clue/useful information stuff. It seems he doesn’t consider telling us where it’s not as being useful, not in graveyard, not in Utah or Idaho, not in out house, ect.

      To me it didn’t matter if there are nine or twenty nine clues/hints in the poem. The poem has the information necessary to find the treasure.

      What made the “clues” important to me was when he said several people have solved the first two clues. This along with his no ciphers/codes statement leads me to believe the clues, at least the first two, are fairly straight forward. I just don’t think that many people have come up with the complicated solutions that some here feel is required and then sent their solution to Fenn.

      So what are the first two clues that several have come up with? I’ve stood on many canyons and sat beside many streams wondering that after my idea went bust.

      • Goof – beyond the first two clues being figured out, what is really interesting to me is the fact that others have been there and didn’t understand the significance of where they were at.

        • JCM…One of the most overlooked statements he has made IMO…The place doesn’t fit the common reasoning being applied to the poem… 🙂

          IMO because there is no water, warm or otherwise…Less than a few would give this place any consideration at all because they simply can’t picture any possibility… 🙂

          IMO, failure to heed FF’s warning in TFTW…’I warned the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand but sure for the one who did.’… 🙂

          Ya gotta know where to go before ya have a hope of knowin’ where to look(my paraphrase)… 🙂

          Good luck and good hunting…

          • Thanks samsmith – I just hope that one day I will not be feeling lucky, but saying to myself “what took me so long.” 🙂

          • And good luck to you when you are able to get out and search. Where will you be traveling from?

          • My new spot doesn’t have water. I just hope it’s not dangerous. Went to a great pizza place and it all came together for me. I have seen most things took so many pics and am excited again. If it’s not f spot then we be back! This is an overwhelming fun experience that f has put on. I love the movie moulin rouge.

        • I’ve wondered about that comment JCM…….Do you think he was talking about searchers or was he talking about people just wandering by. If they aren’t searchers how would he know they were there unless it’s a fairly well traveled location.

          I took it to mean they were regular people so the chest is not far off the beaten path.

          • Goof – I am of the opinion that he was referring to other searchers. It does not make sense to say that people who know nothing of this chase were oblivious to being at the place; why even say it?

            One of the quotes were f talks about it…

            “Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues. Although others were at the starting point I think their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem.”

            Inherent in what f has said when talking about actually hiding the chest, it is inferred that it is a place were people go; so I agree, not far off the beaten path. He walked less than a few miles from his car and searchers have been within 500 feet (or 200 if you trust the Montana newspaper). So obviously there is a trail that he hiked to get to his special place, but goes off trail somewhere along the way.

            I would be very interested to hear from f how many searchers have been at the first clue, whether they know it or not; I think that it would be a lot more than just a few.

            There is much more that I could say about this, but I think this is enough for now.

        • well It could be a fishing spot where other fishermen end up, and they don’t recognize the significance of where they are.

  91. “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure. There are also other subtle clues sprinkled in the stories.” From The Thrill of the Chase pages 131-133. IMO this would be the unadulterated source to answer that question. IMO…

    • Ken, how precisely is important. The references that the poem mentions were not there when he was a kid. Yet, the place was. So I think the references were precisely placed in position. This place has prayer, freedom and peace not sure of the forth but it is there.

  92. Good Morning all ,
    I had to post some thing that I feel pretty strong about.
    “Profiling F” I could tell you a lot about my self , like I studied Martial Arts for 20 years, I’m the only Tode teacher in the States . I played ball, ran track, biked , danced, used to play multiple instruments, I mix music , I make GUI images and used to design Graphic’s for on line web sites. I have worked in every field you can think of , and Trained over 100 managers for a large company , which we trained a Method to make our managers sure of their decisions , by asking the question ARE YOU SURE! And to be honest, I dropped out of school , and didn’t get my education until my Children pushed me to learn and read.

    My point you can profile me all you want , but you are profiling me only based on the data I have given you . So, as F described the horse shoe he found with that carrot top Nail . He knew this horse died with it still on , but that’s not what interested me , it was F’s intureprition of the nail its self.. The shoe not being tapped in all the way so the shoe would last long on the horse. Like F said a Book didn’t teach him that , but it was his observation of this piece.

    I think this : F touches on the obvious translation. We all can agree on certain things we read and understand it individually but most of the time all agree on a lot of what is posted with in reason , where reason is set by us on this Blog instead of Listening to Forrest Fenn . IMO

      • Well, it didn’t imbed like I was hoping. I really wanted a cool looking video box under my name here but at least the link should work.

      • How cool. I want one. Please. Bring me One for my birthday. On second thought bring me Two. Sweet and looks like a blast leeving all the other boats behind.

    • Popping in to say Good Morning! back at’cha Mike…

      I like your last statement above…IMO the reasoning on the blog is set by the discussion of too literal an interpretation of the words of the poem and IMO has little or nothing to do with f’s reasoning and what he is really saying with the words he chose to use…

      Observation rather than interpretation is a useful tool…
      Interpretation can be skewed by what we think we already know…
      Observation can lead one to imagine things we never thought…

      ‘Hear me all and listen good’…Not only has he told us all we need to know is in the poem, he yelled it at the top of his lungs!…

      Good luck and good hunting…

      • I heard he said he doesn’t open his mouth when he smiles. If you know then don’t open your mouth? Anywhere else he said things like that? Someone must be close.

          • Sam has a different way of reading the poem. Should his theory and method be correct…well…That why I hid a heat seeking, satellite tracking, microscopic, alien reverse technology device, in his sandals that he doesn’t know about. Just as a precaution.

          • No fair Seeker!…I knew I shoulda paid for the coffee the last time ya big sneak…

            Hey! that’s good… Sneaker Seeker…Sometimes I just kill me…HAHAHA… 😀

        • Pretty good advice Cherry…better keep my mouth shut then…lol… 🙂

          IMO there are a few who think they are close and are waiting to pounce come spring…To those I say, good luck with the WWWH, there can be only one… 🙂

          He has said much but most are too busy talking to listen, so he continues to smile…He only laughed out loud once…Was there no one to hear?… 🙂

          It isn’t very far down that canyon either, but it is a path that cannot be walked…By Gosh, the man is tricky!…Quite the wordsmith he is, this FF!… 🙂

          Good luck and good hunting… 😀

        • Cherry I think the whole toothbrush story was telling us search the brush (wood) like underwood typewriter.

  93. Samsmith, good morning to you Sir. How have you been? Thanks for your comments. I don’t think we can determine FF’s secret, because well, it’s his secret and he’s keeping it. No worries about me playing word games or any games with FF. I’m smart enough to know who outsmarts who.

    http://youtu.be/poe5kchP0TA

    • HA HA lia, understood…but I might add…

      Oh lia, lia, ye of little faith…think deeper for meanings… 😀

        • Aren’t we all playing here Amy?…You know, kinda strutting our stuff for our brief moment on stage…Carrying on about so many different topics and replying for the heck of it…

          Or trying to get further ideas we may not have thought of as relates to the poem…It’s all in fun and a distraction from most of our daily drudgery…

          Besides, someone will eventually figure this puzzle out…I want to hear about it when it happens myself… 😀

          • Don’t I wish Iron…All I have is a really good idea ’til I can check it out…See ya this summer?… 🙂

      • lol first people get Wyoming out of him, now they’re “innocently” asking about the canyon. Methinks Sam is a wiser trout than that 😉

      • HA…You mean THAT canyon, and who said it’s in Wyoming?…Ol’ Fenn got everyone on that one…If I told you, you would not believe me until you knew what to take…Even then, it’s a difficult journey you cannot walk…But Fenn’s rainbow and the treasure lie hidden at the end…

        Sorry for teasing with riddles, but my way of having fun…Fenn’s way is distraction, mine is putting a new twist on his game…

        • Pretty sure you did.
          samsmith
          on January 17, 2015 at 12:14 pm said:
          Wyoming is the place Amy…And I plan on a very short search… 🙂

          • ‘THAT canyon’ Mark…’THAT canyon’… Not the place it appears to be…Fenn plays games with words man…Just as he did with ‘where warm waters halt’…He’s good at it too…

          • Mark – Sam

            We hope it’s a short trip but I plan on staying a whole week
            Just in case ,
            Once my boots are on the ground I need to take my time and go and find that blaze I will be looking high 🙂

            I don’t believe the blaze can be removed . 🙂
            And you wouldn’t want to, it would be impossible 🙂

          • Lobo thanks for weighing in, as Goofy said it would be possible to go to the moon but the probability you’ll do it is low. Columbus discovered America but before he did no one had done it or at least we didn’t have a record 😀

          • Said exactly what I meant there OR… 🙂

            The hoB is a snap… 🙂

            The blaze, not so much but is revealed… 🙂

            Feels like I’m being grilled by the wordmeister himself here…LOL… 🙂

          • How in the blazes would you know you had the right one. Sam I’m going to call your bluff on this one. In my opinion and I wish Forrest Fenn would weigh in on this …whether it’s possible to solve the entire poem without leaving your house. Impossible! IMO

          • His answer would probably be vague and open to interpretation. Something like, “The person that can solve it without leaving his house is the person that can do so”.

          • Ed I tend to agree with you on this one. Having said that I have come up with a few solutions I did completely from maps and the web, so I can’t say it’s impossible. In other words I wouldn’t throw out a solution if I came up with it without being on location.

            I agree with Mark; I doubt Fenn would answer the question or if he did it would be vague. Using the word impossible opens up a lot of possibilities. For example; is it impossible for me to go to the moon…..No it’s not impossible. But it’s probably not realistic.

          • I have gone back and forth on this boots on the ground concept and when I considered the Fenn statements:
            – that the poem will take you right to it
            – you will walk with confidence with a smile on your face.

            I have to believe that it the poem can be solved at home to a exact spot (walk right to it). Otherwise how does one rationally consider the above statements?

            Secondly, I prefer to think Mr. Fenn created a perfect puzzle. A puzzle that gets one into a general area requiring detailed boots on the ground is not perfect IMO.

            Of course one of his main objectives is to get people off the couch and in the mountains – he will not dispute the boots on the ground theory.

            My most convincing reason is: if one solves all of the clues they deserve to find the treasure, thus boots on the ground does not guarantee the solver with a perfect solution the treasure because they are then required to look for it.
            The Wolf

          • Here in lies the problem with that thinking. The sentence structure in the poem is so natural you can’t know what to look for. Hob is an example or how about look quickly south your quest to cease. This seems completely natural so what would we be looking for? Without being there you can’t possibly know what to look for. Only through trial and error. IMO

          • LOl!! Ol’ lobo gonna weigh in here (and prolly get banned for it! 🙂 )

            Ed wrote :How in the blazes would you know you had the right one. Sam I’m going to call your bluff on this one. In my opinion and I wish Forrest Fenn would weigh in on this …whether it’s possible to solve the entire poem without leaving your house. Impossible! IMO

            Ed, IMO, he already has:
            “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem.”

            “The person who finds the treasure will be the one who solved the clues in my poem and walked to it.”

            “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed, and moved with confidence.”

            “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.”

            “The clues can take you right straight to the treasure chest.”

            “I would urge everyone to go back to the poem in my book and be more deliberate about where they go.”

            “All you have to do is think about the nine clues and follow them in order.”

            “Please go back to the poem and look at maps for your answers.”

            These are all statements that Forrest has made. I could provide you links to each and every one…..but I won’t. If you don’t believe me, go look for them!!…..Dal, if you want to ban me for attributing those, without validation, to Forrest, then so be it.

            Ed, I think this one answers the question: “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.”…..and the others support it!! IMO

            And, I agree with Wolf (dang it): Of course one of his main objectives is to get people off the couch and in the mountains – he will not dispute the boots on the ground theory.

            Good Luck to All!!!……loco 🙂

          • Ed…and let me start off with IMO, yes you can solve the entire poem from your house. But you cannot find the exact location of the treasure from your house. Remember… Forrest has said multiple times that he has hidden the treasure in the Rocky Mountains. Not sat it on the ground. Not left it hanging from a tree limb. Not sat it in a stream. Just a thought for ya 😀

          • Will, thanks for weighing in, so what you seem to be saying is that the poem is only precise in getting a person close to the treasure. A person still has to search. If that’s the case then it sounds like this treasure could remain hidden for a long time. My impression from Forest was that the poem took a person exactly to the treasure.

          • Anything is possible Ed 😛

            Look at the quotes loco posted. Show me one of those quotes where Forrest says that solving the poem will take you to the EXACT SPOT the treasure is located.

            IMO…

            If I put the chest in the playing field somewhere in Mile High Stadium in Denver CO and I wrote a poem that described with picture perfect clarity, a path straight to the playing field inside Mile High Stadium… Then my poem would take you right straight to the treasure. Yet you still would have to search that field to find where I hid it.

            I don’t know how to help with thought processes anymore than that, without giving away important details.

          • uhhh, Will,

            “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.”
            …….does this not say that the path(to the chest) will be DIRECT for the one who has certainty of the location beforehand????

            “The clues can take you right straight to the treasure chest.”……and, I’m pretty sure that “straight to the treasure chest” means, DIRECTLY to it!!!!

            Good Luck to Ya

          • ..the person who is successful will very quietly solve the clues and walk to the treasure with a smile on their face.

            imo he is saying it is a 2 step process

            1. solve the clues

            2. walk to the treasure

          • Loco,

            IMO…

            “, but sure for the one who did.” – All he said there is that you will be confident of the path to the chest. Confident of the PATH, not the spot the chest resides. The word “sure” doesn’t mean “direct” .

            “The clues can take you right straight to the treasure chest.”……
            I’m pretty sure that “straight to the treasure chest” means, DIRECTLY to it!!!! ——- and here you are 100% right. If what you wish to believe is that those words quoted mean the clues take you DIRECTLY to it!!!, then yes that is what it means…..if that’s what you believe it to be. I happen to see something else being said there.

            The clues CAN take you. CAN implies the distinct possibility both of success and failure. Note it never says..if you are right…or if you are smart enough. It is a “blanket” statement that it can either take you straight to it or not straight to it. Yet how can that be if the clues in the poem, according to you, take you DIRECTLY to it? If there is a possibility of failure, then there is no DIRECT, there is no EXACT SPOT. For if the poem led you to the EXACT SPOT, there would be no room in that statement for the word “CAN”. So I guess we both can agree to disagree with that 😀

          • I am going to have to agree with Loco (Dang! 🙂 ) Those quotes he provided are very precise in their meaning IMO and if it points to a football stadium it just isn’t precise enough.

            I believe the correct solution can take the seeker to within 1 inch. I have an example that I plan to share some day that does just that and it doesn’t require any codes, anagrams, numbers or coordinates… just clever directions that follow the clue in consecutive order. That is why I believe so strongly that it is possible to be that precise.

            The Wolf

          • Sorry for starting a fire here…LOL… 🙂

            IMO the path is direct to the chest…Any or all may disagree, I’m OK with that…

            I just know that I will be heading to Wyoming in the summer…

          • Lively discussion we have going here guys, this is good… at the moment I’m kind of leaning towards what Will is saying. “But tarry scant with marvel gaze” there is info here that says what to look for but “precise” means exact like on a dime. I’m thinking like GPS coordinates. So the chest is shrouded in mystery at the end of the quest. The poem only leads you so far then it makes you hunt. Well if he wants it hidden for 10,000 years that’s probably a good idea. IMO

          • This poem written by Forrest Fenn contains nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the “end of his rainbow” and the treasure. Happy Hunting!

            Hmm there may be a distinction between the end of the rainbow and the treasure.

  94. Thanks Sam. I have a couple spots and I’m going to take his advice like you are and zip it.

  95. It seems there is two lines that are the same. Sitting here at Dennys having a nice lunch with my beautiful wife, But she says the same thing. Moving forward.

    • Cherry, I saw a facebook page today that told me 3+4=9 But it is what you think that lead me to the two lines. I am not sure if it is something but it is something.

    • I suppose one can say that I search everyday but my wife would say not so fast because I squint my eyes too much. I have not been back to Wyoming, my favorite area since last year. Heading back in spring to visit a few rock, gem and mineral shops. It is wild out there.

      • Someone mention searching for gems in Utah i think. Doews anyone know if there any public search or digging areas in WY?
        Thanks

        • Last June on our honeymoon we visted a rock shop in Wyoming. The guy there was very good in what he does. He told us of a place where to find crystals right off the interstate. We found the place but the crystals were about 1/2 to 3/4 inch in size. So I looked across the landscape and noticed that the interstate cut through several hills. So I decided to look along the highway. Wow, we found some as long as 3 inches. We had fun going east to Devils Tower. Since then I had a vision.

          • Nice Geydelkon,

            I have only ever found one crystal out here on the east coast. I was gold prospecting in Uwharrie N.F. in the streams and was classifying a spot of grey clay like mud in a bend in the stream hoping gold flakes had settled into it. I ended up finding a golf ball sized natural piece of quartzite or something. Man I was so happy with the find, even though it wasn’t worth much at all. I know the feeling 😛

          • Iron… Since I have been on the chase. I found a new direction. I know a lot about the mountains and the desert. Since Forrest showed me how to research, I find the earth and the people who once lived it more facinating. I guess I have always been curious since I was young and tore the magnets out of speakers. What was more facinating is when I dropped the magnetic in the dirt. It opened a path to my future I did not see. I have had my first but not known to anyone. Now I speak louder. So on Febuary 14, 2002 I had a vision. I knew what I wanted to do. I bought the domain name wildstones.com. There I am working on putting lots of information up about rocks, gems and minerals. It is great to believe in yourself. I just needed a push.

          • cool web domain 😛 I’m not sure I could ever do something like that. Too much logistical work I would imagine. I just wanna be the guy out getting the stones. Then let the website person do all the “techy” stuff with the finds.

          • I agree with you Iron… Although, I think the “techy” stuff is not as hard as it looks… I designed a website for a company I worked for around 97 it wasn’t hard at all… Think how easy it must be now. Hard part I guess is just adding the content and maintaining it…. Oh and finding the stones… but that would be the fun part of the day… wait what am I doing here Geydelkon do you need some help looking for stones????

        • Not…. I would stop at rock shops and talk to the owners. Most all of them have showed me where to go. I am putting a directory of rock shops together. Thousands out there.

  96. Forrest Fire that is so exciting that you have a new book coming out. I can’t wait to see it with all the wonderful pictures that must lie inside.

  97. Hi 6544,

    If you are still there…I have A solution for the poem in which I have great confidence…This is because of the way in which the solution worked out…A named location was revealed from the words of the poem itself…I made no changes nor did I mess with the poem in any way…What I found was well constructed and by design, not by accident or coincidence…It is a theory as of now that needs proving…Come summer I will find out for certain…

    While many continue to read the poem using natural elements and features mentioned as directions and locations, I do not read things this way…To me ff did not make this chase so simple and easy as this…Little of the poem means what it appears to on the surface…There is much that is hidden…Finding it is the real search…And the search begins in the poem at home…IMO

      • The end I sever. = sever the “h” from this line. use for next line. IMO. There are more meanings to that sentence though.

        • I was thinking more like…
          As I have gone alone in there,
          so why is it ,that I must go,
          I can keep my secret where,
          Begin it where,
          the end is ever,
          drawing nigh,
          I get begin it, and So why is IT, so begin it with S
          the end is EVER so I get SEVER
          draw an I=SEVER I, I being Forrest=For Rest
          There’s more but you get the picture, I hope.

  98. Wolf
    …come on really? An inch, most GPS units aren’t that precise. I have believed for quite some time that having the right clues would put you within arms’ reach of the TC. Moreover it is the last 2 or 3 stanzas that triangulate, or crisscross, or something or other (IMO)

    • Yes that is correct accurate to within an inch, I have an example that demonstrates how the directions can be that precise.

      That is the main advantage of precise directions over GPS type coordinates. It isn’t easy to get that precise (understatement) but the emphasis is on research. I know this sounds crazy and I didn’t think it could be that possible either when I first started this venture, so I fully understand your scepticism.

      Hopefully I will be able to share my example someday so you will understand how that kind of accuracy can be possible.

      The Wolf

      • May be missing the obvious but: Presuming one has coordinates it should be easy to be more accurate than GPS in the field. Google coordinates on Google earth. Points to bush next to fence for example.

        • im with you onecorgi, i think f would lean towards doing things the simpler way if possible, and those things tend to be more effective

          but being this is a puzzle, he will make it difficult to see what the simple thing is

          like he said that one time (trying to paraphrase from memory)… some things that are so simple/easy for me can be difficult for others

          • I have shared a geocache of mine. Hidden in the San Francisco Bay Area titled A Stage Born Kid. As f apparently stated, I too created something simple yet it baffles the pros. I had every intention of creating a puzzle cache for the ‘un-enlightened’, no Trig, no cryptography etc. Yet it was too complicated for all.
            Creating is easy after all.

      • Chris,
        I am just awakening to the possibilities of the poem. The poem enlightens me and I hope I can shine upon one single point in the Rockies.

        • I did not want to misquote f or you Chris. I simply want to agree that the simple can be complex.

          • Checking in. Have a great spot over by 5 forks and 01. We will go in the am and see! Had to get away from everything and put the super tin foil caps on. Lol. IF not then we had a great time and already planning on March trip to search. We thinks we
            close!

  99. Can someone help me with my memory?

    I seem to recall that Forrest mentioned something about 12 feet. I think he said that if a person came within 12 feet of the chest they would see it.

    Not sure if this helps GPS or 1 inch solutions. 🙂