The Nine Clues…….Part Fortyseven


This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

This discussion page is now closed to further comment. To follow this thread find the current Nine Clues Discussion page.

807 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…….Part Fortyseven

    • Does everyone know that if you make an account at WordPress, then follow this blog and subscribe to comments that every, I said EVERY comment from any thread on here will be forwarded to your email. Eliminating the need to subscribe all the time.

      Then you can set up a folder in your email and direct all the incoming mail to it so it doesn’t disrupt your regular emails. And you can take it a step further if your super organized and set up folders for each thread if you want to and tell your mail program to put them in the appropriate folder.

      Be warned though there are hundreds of posts every day. Are you sure you want to read them all? I do and I am a serious searcher and read each and every post everyday. I dare not let them get behind and pile up.

      • Ramona, how do you subscribe to comments from inside WordPress account? I’ve been looking around the site and can only find an option to “follow” the blog. That doesn’t seem to allow me to receive comments from all of the posts, only the ones I manually subscribe to by leaving a comment. Thanks in advance for any help!

        • Many thanks to Ramona for the tech tip of the century. Well, maybe not the century but it’s still a great tip……I didn’t know WordPress had this option. Just goes to show that you can teach an old dog a new trick…..Thanks again Ramona.

          The option is kind of buried and this blog is the only blog I have on my wordpress account so I’ve never paid much attention to it. I don’t know if all accounts look like mine but here’s how it works on my screen.

          Login to WordPress.

          Top left of first screen is “reader”. Click that.

          When in the reader the first option is “blogs I follow”. Click the little gear beside “blogs I follow”. This will show a list of the blogs you follow.

          Find our blog and click “edit”. This will open a box with two options:

          The first is “Send new post by email”. You can choose “instantly”, “daily”, “weekly”, or “off”. This is for getting a notification when Dal makes a new post (not comment) here on the blog.

          The next option is “send new comments by email”. Your choices are “on” and “off”. If you select “on” you will get a notification for every comment made on the blog. If you don’t want every comment then you need to leave it set to “off” and subscribe to just the post you want to receive comment notifications on; like most do now.

          • Thanks Goofy, I get all the notifications and comments instantly. But I don’t necessarily read them instantly. And you did a better job of explaining how to do it than I ever could have.

          • Goofy thank of course it took me a while to get but with your wonderful instructions i got it YIPPPEEEEE!!!!!

  1. Kevin must be 3 or 4 hours into the trip so far… That would leave approx. 9 – 10 hours till the finale. Just enough time to buy stock in Prozac….

    Goofy…I predict the server will start to overheat around 6pm this evening!

    • You’re probably right. We all want to either see a picture of Kevin with the chest or watch Kevin eating crow. 🙂

  2. Checking in and thinking like Carolyn… every word counts!

    So where did f go in there alone?

    Man I’m excited today… waiting for Kevin P’s solve?
    Wouldn’t be great if he finds it? If not Kevin… it will be someone who has read all our post and puts it together. Good luck to you Kevin and if you don’t find IT… come back and eat a little crow, put on your pink tutu and join a fantastic group of people in the search 🙂
    Mark H.

      • Went alone? Cemetery? …gravestone, mausoleum, tomb, catacomb, charnel house, vault, sepulcher. Plus slang words: deep freeze, big sky … Sepulcher Mt., Big Sky Country, etc.

    • mark h i think the sentence is just the beginning of the poem and this is where he starts his story. the word there and where are used because the rhyme. it is a hard poem because of the clues but it works best when you keep it simple.

    • I think the words in the first line of the poem “alone in there”, hints at the place one needs to begin…”where warm waters halt”… imo There may be two different ways to interpret this place.

      • Lets look at what Forrest has said. He walked back to his car. When he left to hid the chest he drove alone to the place…

      • If ff and his father went to a place of lament and expressed their emotions about the loss of someone, why would that not be a special place? As I have gone alone (now)?

        Timeline is the main thread to follow and ff has said that he knew years before where he wanted to hide the TC.

        Vietnam 1969, ff moves to Santa Fe next, then brother Skippy tragically drowns in 90 feet of water in a cave in Cozumel, Mexico, in the 1970’s, then ff’s mother passes away, ff’s father in the 1980’s has terminal cancer and shared things with ff during the last hours before his death, ff is diagnosed with terminal cancer in 1988, June passes, ff has said that almost all the places (clues & hints) existed before he hid the TC which means that his description of those places is all that is new.

        So when and which event may have to do with that Special Place? Or was it all of the above?


          • The prospects were better for his art foundry business in Santa Fe than in TX where he was living. He has also said that he wanted to live in a place where he could conduct business in his jeans and hush puppies. Santa Fe is such a place.

  3. Wise, one of my solves believes he went alone into the mountains. Simple enough.

    In One solve… he went STAG. Went alone?

    In another, I like 6 stanzas and 4 lines. If I combined that with the first line “As I have gone alone in there.” where I see two ones (g one, and al one). I have directions to begin… maybe!

    Someone said, AND I shouldn’t repeat this… as I believe it too, that the clues or hints seem to lead to, or end with numbers, monuments or places.

    I wonder if f’s treasures are old and his secrets new?

    Anxiously waiting on Wolf, Iron will, Carl, and Kevin… how exciting!

    Mark H.

    • I hear you. Gotta go out for a while, but will try to reply back later today…

      • I’m back already. 🙂 I like your line of thinking on all three of your could be / would be solves, Mark.
        Be it numbers, monuments and places? All three as I see it. Your thought processes I feel are good IMO, and I believe we think alike.
        So what’s your take on the blaze?

  4. Dal/Goofy, what is the average time span of THE NINE CLUES chapters in blogland (i.e.

    • Lately they are getting shorter and shorter because of the number of OFF TOPIC remarks, like this one. The last page started on April 28th and ended yesterday.

  5. Mindy

    Wow interesting story u posted today on your blog. I can not even imagine 🙁
    I’m speechless

    • Thanks, Amy. It was amazing to see how we take photos for granted and how precious those pics must have been to those families.

  6. Hey folks, if I may ask… which scrap book did f catch that fish and forget where he was? The reason I ask is I found a pic that looks similar and I was wondering if they were taken at the same time… if so I might know where he was… it’s a fifty fifty guess at best!

    Mindy now I have to re-read that book… geeze my brain is soft… Mindy 8 books? Articles galore? Editor? Who are you? I thought you worked in the Med field? I might need those Prozac ???

    Mark H. Looking for that fishing spot!

    • Mark,

      When I was a stay at home mom, I pursued my love of writing. I have a story in Chicken Soup for the Preteen Soul 2, and some dumb novels I wrote under a pen name (too embarrassed to disclose that), and I also wrote lots of non-fiction for a Christian magazine called The Lookout. Then I was an editor for several years, and then the kids were older and I wanted to get back into the medical field. 🙂

    • I believe that was answered……he caught it in “the mouth”. And the secret he divulged? The bear in the lake.

  7. IMO , it means he carried his treasures with him as he went in there by himself. And that may even be a creek? But ,anyhow, now no one else knows where that is, so now he can give hints to where that is when he wants too. and we all know about keeping secrets. IMO thats all that stanza means.

  8. Once an avid fisherman of the great lakes. I would often go alone to find that perfect place. A place others seldom ventured into. MY motives were finding a good fishing spot that offered solitude and a chance to observe nature.
    A place where I could just let go of all of the accumulated frustrations of life.
    It’s funny how noisy ones mind can get in the city. My spot offered a place where I could dwell on problems and possibly find a solution.

    So take some time to cast a fly or two for me while standing in a stream.

  9. Did IronWill ever give up his solve?
    ff said “What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.”
    Translated to ‘ yall haven’t solved an important clue!!’ And he sez several have gotten the first 2 correct, SO is it hoB that is giving us all problems?

    • But maybe thats not it, because its so simple if you consider that its is the 52nd word in the poem and you/ve read the book.

        • Many samiliarities too. Take a bite of the apple, but avoid the worm. There is a larger purpose to his word choice surely.

    • we have been either blessed or cursed with two different Browns that we have not seen on blog or else where. iom it is the hardest and most important.
      i was writting some one today and explaining the poem. i may have posted this. i think meek is beiing over thought. i have two ideas for our solve but i may not be right. Fenn say a 10 yr old could do this and to go in convedence. most ten yr old are not meek and neither is someone who is convident. i think its to tell us to kep going because it by the end is dawning near. it just makes sences to me. the poem is hard but i think the solving will appear simple when done. that is where my solves are leaning

  10. If ff were to go out into the desert/mountains to die beside his TC as he has mused about in the past, what would he do with his vehicle since it is too far to walk?

    Would his wife not worry, and try to locate him? ff is an extraordinarly detail oriented tactician, who also cares about others, this seems more out of character for him but I do believe he would have chosen the option his father used to bring a final solution to a permanent problem.

    Tragedy in the act of suicide is when you use it to find a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Robin Williams

    • I believe that FF regrets not taking the challenge of finding his way out of the jungle the second time he was shot down (grab every banana). He has said that if he could do his life all over again he would do things differently. FF by saying that he wants to with his last dying breath, lay himself on the chest is his way of reliving that challenge for eternity. Just my opinion.

      • Still not buying the die next to the box thought. Hmm, gee, a rotting corpse for all to see. Now “dye” next to the box with a florescent dye that glows under a U V light, “hence…the blaze”, seems to be much more logical.

          • I don’t recall a “die by the box” comment, per say. More like fling his body over it …..thus, what, we are looking for glow in the dark buzzards? 🙂

          • I will profess, however,
            To seeing the word fluoresce
            in one if the drawings, vaguely…

          • We certainly can’t rule out such an idea it would make for a very interesting end.


            In the book he says beside the treasure chest. That may or may not indicate room for his body to rest next to the treasure…could be outside who knows?

            Pg 143 TTOTC

            “I had even plotted to have my bones rest forever, in silent repose, beside the treasure chest.”

        • Neat idea Seattle can you or anyone point me to a hint in the book about Ultraviolet/black light? Or what appears purple? Other than when he flies the aircraft and check his fingernails with a flashlight to look for purple in case of hypoxia?

          Would Forrest really want people out tramping BLM lands at night using UV lights or trespassing on private lands after dark? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

          • Ed,
            Look on the inside cover of ttotc. On the right side, you can find the purple. Look close, and you will find something else.

          • Ed, I remember Dal reporting that Forrest retracted the statement about needing a flashlight and saying that you would only need one if you were searching at night. Never heard about needing a black light though!

          • I hadn’t noticed that purple, below it says thumb print. My war for me talks about purple and his thumb but also mentions Purple Hearts and red lights. Seems there is a faint image behind all the other pictures of the inside cover.

          • Wow, Mindy, I never noticed that before. Why does he show an ID card with a picture of him as a young boy, and then list the person as 17 years old and 150 lbs? And the phone number of 4303 is also very curious.
            Looks as if the purple was the edge of a stamp which has been removed.

          • i wasn’t sure how you powered the light (long cord dumb)but i gogled them and they have flashlight size ones maybe this is a clue.

          • Birdie I think what Ed is saying is that everything white would glow under just a normal blacklight. They might make a gem flashlight where different rock mineral colors are visible.

          • Here’s my thought for the minute…
            If it is meant to say UV, why does it have an apostrophe? Hmmm?

          • i took the age of Fenn went he wrote book he said he was 79 subtracted it from 2009 when book i think was written (close enough) i got 1930 there abouts. i added the age on id card 17 and you get 1947 there abouts. i googled 1946, 47,48, & 49 in case i was off a little. in all those years usa postage stamps have some purple on them. i am not old enough to know these mail to students.

    • Tom Terrific (deflate much?)…. ff for certain has said he ‘walked back to his car with a smile after hiding the treasure’ or something close to that. Just because his clues say “too far to walk” does not mean his path to hide the TC follows the poem.

      • i agree he said he drove to the place that is the far but not too far too walk. after that he doesn’t IMO give a distant to go but for me at 300 pounds on relatively flat but rough ground i can hike about five miles with a couple of breaks to rest and look at birds. in the mountains rough ground a nice incline my limit is a little over 2 mile without a bigger rest. oh that is with a backpack of about of about 5 – 7 pound. i know that about 15 pound short but we are working on that. i dont think he hiked more than 2 to 5 mile to hiding spot. if it was 2 miles two trips that is 8 miles. 1 in 1out, 1back in and 1 out for total 4.

  11. Kevin is unfortunately on a wild good chase today, though I hope he has a good trip and is able to appreciate the “chase” despite the outcome. I’ve followed this thread for a bit and haven’t posted much, but just wanted to say how much I appreciate the community on here. Have been studying the poem and clues for a few months, much shorter than many of the folks on here. I was absolutely convinced in the first week that I had solved it and was ready to pack my bags and head out. However, the more I looked at the poem, the more it seems like there was a “down the rabbit hole” element to all of this. Have come to appreciate there are layers upon layers of information in clues provided and that FF is a genius in delivering the concrete through the abstract. Have a strong sense someone is going to find the TC within the year. I doubt it will be Kevin, but I hope that when someone does they will recognize Dal for the incredible community he has created here.

    • three rocks i am new too. i wanted to ask which you preperred carrots or sweet clover. rabbit holes are why we need a flashlightLOL

      • Wildbirder, definitely carrots, or maybe karats? Not sure yet but will let you know if I get to the bottom of this rabbit hole!

        • Threerocks do you have the required flashlight and extra batteries?

          • Since you are new wildbirder and Threerocks….”does that refer to 3 peaks or Tres Piedras?”…anyway, IMO, the required flashlight is a UV “if UV been wise” . And a regular LED flashlight= “It will be worth the CO-LED. Play on words my friends, all just a play on words. And a sandwich? That is a scoop type thing used for prospecting. A “Sand Witch”.

    • Good post, threerocks. A good intellect in concert with an appropriate level of humility. I suspect you’ll always be welcome here.

    • Threerocks,

      Abstract is a four letter word to some here…lol

      I’m the appointed Abstract king apparently. [ I can hear the Wolf laughing even now ].

      And you maybe correct that Kevin is about to have a bit of let down. But then again someone like Kevin or yourself with fresh ideas and theories may break the chase wide open.

      Enjoy the ride….

      • HA HA Abstract King – that’s funny! Yes, unfortunately Kevin is likely to get spanked tonight, but I kind of like Kevin, because he at least contained himself until the day prior before exploding, unlike most who try and milk it for 8 months and then don’t deliver. I am hopeful that Kevin will share his ideas with us, for it would be nice to hear of his “writer’s perspective” – it may spark a dormant solution awaiting a catalyst to bring it back to life.
        Good luck Kevin!

        • Wolf,
          I agree with your positive assessment of Kevin. He is atypical in regards to those who are so certain of their solve. Kevin didn’t drag us down with daily trumpets of how sharp he is, he just stated it like it was in his mind the same week he planned to find it.
          Thanks Kevin and I hope you are well.

      • Good point Seeker. Agree fresh ideas should always be welcome. I hope those fresh ideas will be tempered with respect for the people who have spent an incredible amount of time pouring over all of the clues and have invested a lot of time in the chase. I have ideas about where I’d like to go, but I suspect many on here have had some of those same ideas and may have even traveled to the places on my list. Whether successful or not, this whole thing is a lot of fun. In the end, there is no amount of treasure in the world that is comparable to the experiences that are being created for so many of us in the big wide open world of the rocky mountains. If I had all the treasures in the world, I would probably just use it to create the time away from work to visit exactly the places this quest is compelling us to travel to. So I’m grateful for that little piece of the TC we are all being provided just by rolling up our sleeves and joining in the chase.

        • Yep 3rocks,
          It sad that some… not all, but some think their solve, method, theory is the only way and enjoy the ability to hide behind a monitor and dish another idea. or believe they should be the one who finds / deserves the chest because of their hard work / money invested.

          But most will be eager to hear your thoughts, even if they don’t respond. Just take the others with a grain of salt.

          Can you give an example of how you see, read or view the poem?

          • Seeker, thanks for the encouragement to join in the discussion. Honestly I think I’m at the place of the “more I know, the more I realize how little I knew”. I hope to be a productive member of the community here and will definitely share when I feel like I can make a worthwhile contribution.

          • I agree, I am the first to want to hear ideas on the poem. Some of my solution came from perception of the poem. I do have fun criticizing others but only in constructive criticism. I grew up knowing that if you messed up that you better be ready for what follows. @Seeker when are you SamSmith heading out? Will you write a report on your search without details on the location?

          • Will.
            At one time Sam and I hoped to split the cost…about a 4500 mile round trip… gas..motel etc.but I told Sam I told I snore so he decided to venture out on his own.

    • Tres Piedras: Judging from our results, we are all, so far, on a wild goose chase!

      Now if only I had clue #3???

      I say that because I gave up on 1 and 2.

      Tom Terrific

        • Truly, Tres Piedras, I am a millionaire and don’t need the money, what I am doing now is working on my second million, because I gave up on the first one, it was too hard to hold on too and the complications it causes are enormous, divorce, litigation, etc.

          Luckily ff has been able to weather the storms. the slings and arrows flung at him he is a good dodger for he kept his beautiful wife Peggy for all these years, so that is probably part of this poem and his secret to happiness, and, oh yes of course, he lives in Shangri la at the heart of “The land of Enchantment”!

          Tom Terrific

          • I’m talking too much today, sorry!

            Tom, a very familiar story… 🙁 I wonder if I’ll ever learn to weather the storm? Perhaps?

            And if it has not been said enough… f is amazing and he has been very fortunate…

            Off topic… again sorry.

            My first wife I’m not proud to say wasn’t right for me. But Angie is. I hope to be with her until she either gets rid of me or puts me in the ground. I love her very much!

            I guess Tom, one could say you are dealt 5 cards in life… And, they say one’s a Joker… IDK? You play whether you like it or not. That’s for sure!
            For some the cards are harder to play than others…
            I have tried to never complain about circumstance…or the cards I’ve been dealt… in which I could say I’m a victim of poor dealing…Ha.. or others might say I was a poor player. Your choice?

            The only thing I can say is I’m at a point where the chip count is low. For me to continue, I’m going to have to win a few hands. I’m almost all in… I hope the cards change!
            Mark H. Back to the Chase!

          • Tom, thanks for the reply. I admire your persistence in the quest. Am really enjoying all of the new landscapes the chase is opening up for me. Whether there is or is not a pot of gold at the end of the rainbows I’ll follow, am really appreciative for all of the experiences I never otherwise would have had.

          • Ditto that, threerocks.
            This chase has opened my eyes to so much, and lifted my courage as well!
            Life itself is the treasure, but looking for stuff is fun too, specially when you live to tell! “)

  12. Mindy that’s awesome! Tough competition here folks!

    Wise, the Blaze for me has been something I might see boots on the ground. It has been for almost my whole time here. All we know is f said something about white… I think? I like rainbows and owls, FF’s maybe on an aspen, a trail head, the running man, the horse theory, shadow of the sun (degrees or something… I’m not sure, drawing nigh), and as of recently a camp fire of sorts…like St. Elmo’s. Would a mess of bats leaving their cave be a blaze, how about being snow blinded? All guesses, but I’m looking for any one of these things

    Because you asked, I hope this doesn’t help to form anyone’s opinion… Why…because many ideas have been presented that are as good if not better!

    Can’t wait for Kevin’s trip report 🙂
    Mark H.

    • I check in on this blog regularly but rarely chime in. Most of the discussions are off topic or far-fetched so I don’t bother commenting on them but you offered up some relevant and on topic information so I thought I would give my opinion. I agree that the blaze can only be found with boots on the ground. I do not believe it is a trail. From the Cheat Sheet: Q: Is the Blaze one single object? “In a word – Yes”. I also believe that based on these two scrapbook entries- and Forrest has actually told us what the blaze is, a tree with an F carved in it. Two of the most common comments I hear about the blaze refer to the “look quickly down” and people saying that the blaze has to stand the test of time. From the very beginning my thought has always been that the poem will not be relevant or applicable in 1,000 years. Forrest never said that people would still be looking for his treasure a thousand years from now, only that someone would find it. What are the chances of geographical formations lasting 1,000 years? Earthquakes, floods, fires, tornadoes, rock slides and other natural disasters constantly change the landscape, not to mention destruction caused by humans. Forrest has already confirmed this: Q: Did the same 9 clues exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will they still exist in 100 years and 1000 years? “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia.” As far as the “Look quickly down”, my thought has always been, “How else does one look at something except quickly?”. We don’t move our heads or our eyes slowly. He wouldn’t say “Look slowly down”. To me this merely means when you find the blaze, look down at the ground, and the treasure will be there, either in plain view, hidden, or buried, but that won’t be answered until Kevin finds it today.

      • I texted Kevin today and he has got back with me and said he was in Spokane not sure where that is.
        He is a very serious and confident searcher. So we will maybe soon hear his solve and see if he found that chest. 🙂

        Kevin please up date us 🙂

        • Coming from the person who wrote a book about their incorrect solve of the poem, I don’t take much stock in what you say.

          • If you didn’t read the book then you don’t know what the solve is. I don’t take much stock in someone who assumes.

        • Thanks Ritt, you might not believe this but most of the people here… here at dal’s blog and grill. Have found your solve. And we’re better for it. I’m just say n’!

          Ritt, on another note… I wouldn’t suggest to others here that they should read my book to gain a better perspective on life.

          Being Careful of what I say!
          Mark H.

      • Seebee88, what about the comment f made something like ” it maynot be impossible to remove the blaze, but it would not be feasible to try to do so,” So, IMO Its not a tree, unless its in a place that no one can get to.

          • POG ‘Corsair’ – thanks for that excellent information. Is it a wise owl petroglyph or a heart with a crystal blaze down the middle?
            Are you sailing or searching for the right solve this summer?

        • Forrest’s comment makes perfect sense to me, but I can’t say why.

        • What feasible way is there to remove a tree carving? Unless you are carrying a decent sized knife or hatchet, which I would guess most people don’t. In my mind, there is nothing that can’t be destroyed. You can take down a mountain with enough explosives. If the blaze were a pile of rocks, that would be feasible to destroy. I think a tree carving would be feasible to remove, if you have a tool to remove it, but as I said, I don’t believe many people carry around a tool necessary to remove it. Just my opinion. We all have different ones and I respect most everyone’s.

          • forrest fire, insects, lightening strike, someone coming a long and cahaning the blaze.

        • I’m glad you brought up that comment–I agree with you that that comment suggests it is not a marking on tree. I thought it suggested a big rock, or something fairly expansive that could possible removed but something that no one would probably ever do. A tree is way to temporary (unless maybe it was a giant sequoia–but that isn’t likely). Too many beavers, bugs, flames, lightening strikes, etc. for it to be a tree imo.

      • i agree it maybe marks on trees, but unless Fenn hide it in N. Tex i dont an F will be the blaze. maybe trail marking. we also found lot of F craved on trees at clear creek in cimorron canyon. get this on was on a tree about 15 ft up.

      • What makes you think a guy who has uncovered treasures thousands of years old, done extensive excavating, and has expert knowledge about how things can be preserved couldn’t make a blaze to last a thousand years? Never underestimate Fenn the Great.

      • “The clues did not exist when I was a kid, but most of the places the clues refer to did”……
        Of course the clues didn’t exist. He hadn’t written them yet. Pure Fenn.
        “Most of the places did” … I’m of the opinion that all the clues did EXCEPT his blaze that he marked. I
        now understand just as much as I did two years ago.

    • Mark did you see the picture on the “Lost My Spot” SB124? Weren’t you looking for that earlier today?
      Re: Rainbows and Owls… Me too! An Owl was my petroglyph blaze on my first search in Echo Park. Actually the sign said it was a “necklace” but it looked like a wise owl to me on white rock. Have you seen it before or my picture of it on / NotSoWise? Anywho, Thats how I came up with my screen name I use today, because I think I’ve “wised up” since then. Ha!
      I asked a question earlier tonight on the Forrest Fenn link. It’s at the bottom of the thread. I’d appreciate your opinion if you have time to answer. Thanks.

      • Wise thank you I’m going to look that SB up and I’ll tell ya later if it was f…

        Yep an owl on a rock is a consensus!!!… maybe! smiling There are several like the Wolf and I, and I think Michelle, I can’t remember?

        Minerva is the nickname I gave my partner… I wonder how she’s doing?

        Mark H. smiling from ear to ear!

  13. Seabee, I agree with what you have said, : a trail sometimes seems to be off for several reasons, perhaps it’s too far to walk, IDK. Maybe the trail signs or where the head of the trail begins is singular in a way?
    I like one particular trail head… or the place it begins… and I know that’s also vague but that is my best for now. IMO

    Also f did say in a way it was a single object… come on f meister throw us a bone! The moon is a single object! For me it was very vague, but then I thought, a favorite horse would not be considered an object, so maybe the blaze is not a horse … 🙂 I’m reaching! Still it’s all we have and white I think… ???

    Okay:: the Aspen and the markings on the trees are my favorite too, but folks it’s no more than a guess.

    And I don’t talk about my hunts, I hate to bore anyone, but!!!

    I once was hunting in the mountains of NM where the O’l sheep herders use to run their animals… I found tons of crazy markings or carvings on those trees. Basque I think… I can’t remember. Anyhow there’s quite a few blazes marked on the trails.

    (Darn we just agreed it was probably not a trail but the blaze on my tree was on a trail…Hmmm.) Oh well 🙁

    Nevertheless, Aspens are everywhere out there…and Aspens are a cool tree that are unique in the way they grow… kinda like grass…looping. You’ll have to look that one up, but they are supposedly paralleled with warrior’s and being brave. I was lucky and found something I have to go see again. But it’s on a trail… grins.

    Sea… in f ism, you are again correct. f said IT would be hidden prob a long time… he didn’t say he knew if the Chase and the clues would last… A quagmire!

    Lastly, and only a few lines short of being nuked… I disagree that looking down will end our quest… I hope I’m wrong. But it seems to me, and folks again it is only my opinion… that it won’t be over! I still need the TITLE… I think… Conformation plz Brimely?
    Mark H. Gearing up and loving this ****! JUST SAY N’ HA!

    • The Basque carvings are called Arborglyphs. I’ve seen pictures of them. They are a great piece of history. The life span of Aspens averages about 100 years, which based on his comment about how long the clues will be applicable, I take as supporting evidence for the blaze being a tree carving.

      What do you believe the title is? For me, Mr. Fenn is meerly saying that if we find the chest it belongs to us.

  14. seabee88, I did not find the TC either. I sent Dal the story of my solve and search so that anyone who wants to read it can. Was I near it, i think so, but so does anyone who goes out and puts boots on the ground. The main thing is that we are all looking for the same thing with different views and ideas. Not all people think the same, thank goodness. But if my reasoning helps someone to solve the poem then that’s good. Other wise they may just sit back and laugh at how an old red neck from Texas thought he knew where it was.

    • Obviously I do not have the chest either Obsessed. I would bet that no one does, including Kevin. I’m all for the sharing of information and solves that don’t pan out or that people feel like sharing. What I don’t particularly like is the arrogance of people like Ritt, or Plato II as it sometimes goes by, who write a book and continue to proclaim they had the correct solve and found the blaze but they just couldn’t find the chest. In my opinion in you don’t have the chest you can’t claim that you have found squat. But yes, everyone will always have different opinions which is fine. I try to keep an open mind and I have changed my opinion of what I think the poem means several times. I try to keep it simple though as well. To me personally I think that the blaze did not exist before Forrest wrote the poem. I think he created it, and I personally don’t think he would chisel a marking into a rock. Obviously many other people do believe it is a marking on a rock and in the end it very well could be.

      • i partly agree with you it would depend on the rock. some you can mark more easily than other. one problem with craving on some rocks if it cracked water can get in the cracks and then the water freezes breaking the rock over time. you can see evidence of this all over canyons where it freezes

  15. Not Ob…. I don’t see your story in the ‘others adventures’ section,? where is it?

  16. I just sent it to him Tuesday. He said might be done byt the week end. The form that I sent won’t just pop in. I had to send the pictures separate and he will have to format to fit the blog, or something along that line.

  17. Great conversations today!

    I agree about the Aspens. I noticed glyphs were on old cottonwoods too.
    And I also agree with POG, the blaze could be in stone, such as the Palisades in Cimarron or the Tooth of Time. IMO there are so many possibilities, the only way we will know is BOG.

    My theory is this, if you don’t look you won’t find it!

    Not Obsessed, I’m going to have some hot coffee and read your solve… thank you and dal for your time!

    Mark H.

  18. Well ‘if you’ve been wise ‘…you know the rest. IMO, that could mean that the Blaze may be something(s) that DO NOT alway occur…( i have found 2) but you have to be wise enuff to know that, and/or wise enuff to be there at the right time.

    • I found 3,
      IE: what happens at Freezout Lake MT could be thought of as a blaze.

    • I’ve been wondering about this too. So you are saying not only are we supposed to figure out the 9 clues, we have to know what time to be there to see the blaze… That’s great. :/

      • Yes that tuff ain’t it? LOL Naw, I have some other ideas for a blaze, but what I wrote is a possibility to consider, If all you other clues look good but you can’t find a blaze…think about it. But you do not have to ‘see’ the blaze, just know its there or what it is, remember f siad “found the blaze” not see it.

  19. Remember f said “found the blaze” not ‘SEE the blaze’.

    I did not see any comments on that 52nd poem word post I made and of course you’ve read each PAGE of the book.. , what does anyone think about it?

    • If we have to search for it then we will have found it. Don’t you have to see something after you find it?

  20. I saw your comment on hoB “Brown”… 52nd word.
    Sounds to me as unfortunate.

  21. unfortunate ? did you make the connection I am trying to make here? Is it just a coincidence or what, is what I am asking.

  22. Maybe I’m not looking at it the same way you are.
    There are always numerous ways to interpret things.
    Choosing the right one is the tuff part. IMO

    • He is at this very moment trying to convince himself that crow tastes a lot like chicken. Just hasn’t found a way to share the recipe . 🙂

    • Kevin wasn’t able to search due to him getting there at dark. He will not be able to search today. He said maybe in a few weeks he will return.

        • I have gotten to where I also have a flashlight with me. I have a tool bag in my trunk with 2 lights, I have a pen light in my computer bag, and a mag light in the back seat. Never know when you will need a flashlight.

          • You All, Don’t forget the Bear Mace! and bells or something to make noise! Be Safe out there! You Never know, just ask me….

            Lou Lee, A Prospector, Chased by Bears in Jellystone Park and lived to tell the Tale. from Whoville.

          • My thoughts exactly, after all the bravado he should have come back and said himself…..

          • Mark, Danny…

            Yep, we either have a naive overconfident searcher. or someone who just wants to disrupt the blog. I’ll let you conclude what you like. a 26 hour car ride turn around because it was dark and never looked?

            Sad state of affairs either way.

          • Jamie and I weren’t deterred by darkness. We searched in the middle of winter in thigh high snow with NO flashlight in the woods behind The Totem Cafe after midnight. 🙂

      • I read somewhere that truly brilliant people just can’t be bothered with the mundane activities of every day life. Lots of people repeat the falsehood that Einstein wasn’t able to tie his own shoes. That idea has been propagated to the point of becoming a cliche, so why ruin that with the truth?!

        I think what we have witnessed with Kevin is a truly brilliant person that can’t be bothered with the mundane regularity and predictability of sunsets.

        This display of brilliance has convinced me that he has solved the poem in record time and that we have been put on notice. Three weeks until Kevin battles the horizon once more in his quest to retrieve (not find) the chest!

        Just having a little fun at your expense, Kevin. You can’t talk big and not expect to be ribbed a little. A little humility goes a long way around here. Glad you had a safe trip. Now, back to the chase…

      • What’s to search? “This is not a treasure hunt anymore. This is a treasure retrieval”….. You just use your headlights, pick up the chest, and load it into your car!

        • You guys are like hungry vultures, a lynch mob, waiting to tar and feather someone.

          Being nice is not in your vocabulary.

          Have a nice day! 🙂

          • Hold on there Special K…

            Lets put some of the facts out there.

            A self proclaim one week searchers comes in a knocks all of us for not being able to find the trove… apparently e-mails Fenn telling him he knows all as well… telling the World to cease because it’s found and will be in his hands in 24 hrs…

            AND if you read most of the post, folks did give him a benefit of a doubt and even encouragement as well.

            Now when “his dead line” was met after a supposedly 26 hr drive round trip and didn’t search? Come on, what doesn’t smell fishy here to you? and I won’t even mention that he didn’t come back to tell us like he stated he would but did it through a second party.

            There was no name calling or insulting language. Just blunt opinions.

            Call us Vultures and Lynch mops?
            and being nice is not in our vocabulary?

            Do you understand the meaning of common sense?

            My thoughts only Special K. So don’t bark at the others for this post.

          • specialklr – You are funny. Throwing insults and then ending with “Have a nice day!”.

            That’s kind of like stabbing someone with a knife that’s been dipped in rubbing alcohol. They can’t complain about the stab wound cause, well, at least the healing has begun!

          • Special, I think most here are supportive of searchers that post their solutions or tell us they are on the way to search. If he had said he was new and enthusiastically hopeful he figured out the poem and was leaving for his first search in Wyoming; I think he would have got many well wishes, probably some weather reports, and some advice on what to take with him and watch out for.

            But no he said the game was over and he was on his way to get the chest. Period, end of tune, done deal, not a search trip, a recovery trip. He did in two weeks what the rest of us morons haven’t been able to figure out in years. He jumped in the shark tank and poked the sharks……I can’t imagine why he got bit.

            You have a nice day also.

            Now lets get back to the nine clues.

          • LOL…

            Goofy…sharks…? I thought Mr f said alligators… :mrgreen:

            Yep…he made the alligators mad “before” he crossed the creek…

          • Hey, I think Kevin is probably a nice person, the way he phrased his comments did indeed make me smile, not frown. So I do wish him well. That said to come to an established blog and on post 1 claim “it will be done” is bound to encite a lot of comments.
            And hungry Vultures who cant be nice? No, if I was a hungry vulture I’d be signed up and posting onto the no. 2 forum on Forrests Chase…. 😉

  23. checked out the pic…. looks like a good place to find gold deep down in the sediment though

    • Speaking of gold, on a recent trip exploring one of various possibilities related to the TC, I found myself moving along a shallow creek. Looking at the sediment in the creek there were small grains of gold reflecting the sunlight back amongst the sediment through the shallow water. Come to find out the area had been mined for gold some years ago. I imagine those grains were some of what was left behind. I don’t know a thing about panning for gold, but may head back to that place at some point just to learn a thing or two about it. It’s an amazing world out there that FF has compelled many of us to find. Am grateful for the adventures my family and I have had so far as a result of all of his efforts.

  24. imo – i have been reading all the different comments of what is the blaze – seems to me that we have a dart board and where ever the dart lands that is the blaze with out having a back up to let us know that its the real blaze start at the beginning like forrest said and we should not go wrong of course its only my opinion – now back to my dart board

  25. if you can see gold in a river or stream it is fools gold. Gold is heavy and will always be on the bottom under overburden.

    • Hi There…GEOJACK…….Fools Gold is a sign of Gold being near by….its a indicator mineral. I am sure you know this. Anyway, its a subject I really like.

      Lee Lou Who? from Whoville!

        • Fifth Element 🙂 I will tell you I do have a connection to it. However Lou Lee or Loo Lee as some say, was a given nick name to me over 30 years ago, and most of my Ole friends call me that.

          Lee Lou Who? Lou Lee from Whoville of course!

  26. That blaze stuff was good yesterday! How about “Title” ??

    Why will he give us title to something left behind to be found… it questions the box’s location. I mean if you give me title you own IT… and if you still own IT or have title to IT… it would have to be in your possession somehow… I think. It would have to be on your property…If it was on any other property it’s not really f’s anymore??? How else could one assign the Title if they did not own/possess it.

    Title… I thought was a simple contract in the Poem… and it might be for making it worth the cold… but I don’t know???


    Title the fineness of Gold (24K) ???
    Still looking?
    Mark H.

    • I think this part of the poem is just saying that if you find the chest, it is yours. A corollary to that is that until it is found, it is his. He has said that he could “go get it” suggesting that he believes that he has not relinquished ownership and does not do so until it is found.Just like you retain “title” or ownership to the coat you left at the office or how the Fenns owned the equipment they left every year at their hidey spot. Every day we retain title (ownership) to stuff even though it is not in our immediate possession. It is in our constructive possession even though it is not in our actual possession.

      • I agree. He has said on several different occasions that he has challenged us to go out and find it. I believe he is merely saying that if we find it then it is ours. Many people seem to think there is a literal piece of paper or document that you have to find that will legally give you ownership of the chest. In my opinion this line is just a more eloquent way of saying finders keepers.

          • If I found the Gold In the Wood, I sure would feel that I recieved a gift from The Forrest. 🙂 Dear Lord, Please let it be me!

            Lee Loo Who, from Whoville, Were the Owls live too……Who are Wise.

  27. One idea, IMO, is that if your out there looking, its as good as Yours! Every one has a chance.

  28. Has anyone else considered that the way Forrest recently described himself, “I’m a retired fighter pilot who was shot down twice,” is important? I read about the Jolly Green’s and the FAC’s and what’s interesting is how extremely rare it is for a fighter pilot to survive being shot down twice.”

    And notice he doesn’t say “two times,” but specifically, “twice.” And very curious that in Ute, the word for “twice,” is “wize.”

    Shot down twice. Extremely lucky. Horseshoes a symbol of good luck, and there are two of them…

    If you’ve been twice…

    • …just another 1 of those unanswered questions IMO. Yes there’s an official report showing ff airlifted the 2nd time. Maybe the 1st crash he was on was of those hush-hush missions. Forrest could have been flying a prop- job/ doing Forward air controller duty.

      I gotta believe that his golf buddy Bob Lynch was also flying sensitive missions, seeing how he is not listed on the standard POW rolls.

      • Theycallme9clues,

        According to TFTW they were both F-100 Super Sabre’s. On page 125 he list all the planes shot down 198 (2 were mine).

        Fred Y.

    • Interesting Mindy! Btw I was going to comment on you blog post yesterday…. But, like Amy I was speechless…

      • Too morbid or creepy. my intent was to show how different things were and to show we should be very grateful that we can capture memories any time we want. I hope I didn’t offend anyone, but it’s a lost part of history. It demonstrates the harsh life of the time.

        • Not really morbid or creepy just sad. But, I totally agree with you about how harsh things were back then and how we take so much for granted today…

        • IMO only morbid and creepy when looking at the world today.
          Back then I think it was a great tribute, and ‘the way things were done’
          I was amazed AND speechless , but only out of empathy for the folk in that day and age using the tools and tech they had, to form such tributes to lost loved ones…

          and p.s. I could not tell in at least half, who was the living party….

    • Mindy that’s curious and interesting, “twice,” is “wize.” Two Horseshoes… I like it! Nice work! 🙂

    • In my well intentioned but probably doesn’t come across as humble opinion, I think that focusing on information like this will only get us farther away from the correct solve. I saw your post on The Catcher in the Rye and its importance but Mr. Fenn has specifically said no literature of any form influenced his writing of the poem. There is a person I see more often on Jenny’s site named Astree who is constantly using anagrams even though Mr. Fenn has clearly stated anagrams are not involved. If we take all of the comments Mr. Fenn has made and the books he has written or talked about the amount of “Clues” we can concoct would be endless.

      • Actually, he didn’t “specifically” say anagrams. Read that quote again. And no, I agree that no literature influenced his hiding the chest, but I DO believe that concepts FOUND in important literature did.

        And my Ute comment is simply based on a COMPREHENSIVE knowledge of geography, which he said WAS helpful.

        My reading about the Jolly Greens was simply because I was interested in it, and in reading and comparing it to what I read in TTOTC, I find curiousities. There’s a reason he keeps repeating he was shot down twice. There’s a reason he says the PJ in the Jolly Green didn’t need to tell him TWICE to sit on the flak vest. If you invest a little time researching and striving to know the nuances behind his words, you learn a lot.

        Now I know why he rushed to the flak vest. Most likely, they were taking enemy fire. The enemy would purposely wait for the Jolly Green’s to come, and when the helicopter was at its most vulnerable –when the hoist began to lift the downed pilot from the ground–they would open fire with heavy Soviet artillery.

        Almost every rescue involved an enemy attack, and like Forrest, I think those guys were huge, selfless heroes.

        Just a short time after Forrest’s rescue, Lt. Lance Eagan rescued another pilot, Cpt. Jack Modica, and that exciting story can be read online. I encourage everyone to read it, because once you do, you’ll have a whole new appreciation of those ultimate heroes.

        So, no anagrams or ciphers, but important literature is important for a reason. Not that he was influenced by any, but because there are concepts in them that are also in the poem and the big picture.

        I think there’s a reason Forrest quoted his dad when he said it was good to learn the things not worth knowing about. Brcause you may find there’s something worth knowing in everything.

        • …ok, in the book version Fenn states it was Robert Sully that yelled it. But in the alleged 2006 version he claims M/Sgt. Maples, told him ‘get in the back and sit on a flak vest.
          I am guessing all of these ‘lil inconsistencies support the Unreliable Narrator angle, the same angle that made Catcher in The Rye so profound.

          For me the book “Flying Through Midnight” remains one of the best books written by a Vietnam pilot, darn near impossible to put down

      • In Fenn’s list about what was NOT in the poem, (cyphers, etc.) he did not mention anagrams. IMO there might be a wee bit of useful letter alteration in the poem based on the little butterfly/flutterby comment in the book. I don’t think he ever mentioned or excluded anagrams in any other context or comment.

        • i think small ones are ok like i was suggesting water high could be a reference to tall drink of water. high drink of water after hiking and during you have to drink lots of water

        • At which point does a word that might be spelled in an interesting way become an anagram?

          • What is… At the point it becomes an anagram?
            Sorry Mark its Friday :). What do you mean by “spelled in an interesting way”?

          • do you mean like the way southerners say po-lite? or how we pronounce the word dead as day-ed? people from the south take a lot of one syllable words and mark them multiples. i had a college history teacher from Miss. who would say the Civ-vil Wa-ar. two hr a day for two days a week for three months.

          • There is a difference between spelling and pronunciation.

            I was referring to how everyone is checking for anagrams. Especially on words that Forrest misspelled. I think he is just being whimsical.

          • i agree i say thing like en-ve-opes instead of envelopes just for fun.

  29. Mindy, something new for u. Research 3-7-77. In relation to Montana. You will also come across a t.v. series, “Hopalong Cassidy” 1952 episode 21 seaso 2. Actor playing Cassidy= William Boyd. ( William Boy1) Kind of like (William Kid1):). Look at all the names of those t.v. episodes od Hopalong. Look familiar.
    Oh yea, 3-7-77 = 24.:)

  30. Okay Wise the other day I was looking at pics and found a pic of f fishing. He was wearing the same hat and glasses in SB 124. I’m not sure of the significance of the find so I’m hesitant in posting the address until I’ve thought about it a little bit. I will tell you it is in NM, north of SF, and on private property. And the way I found the pic was looking up the hoB.

    Personally I think f, knows the pic is out there so it’s prob a red hearing 🙁
    Mark H.

    • Mark, I’m glad for you that you are finding what you were looking on that SB picture. What you say you’ve found sounds pretty good. Re: looking up the hoB… You make it sound so easy! Seems everybody on here knows THE/their hoB, except me… 🙁 Hope it’s not a “kipper” as POG has said!…Good Luck. 🙂

      • WiseOne, nothing about the Chase has been easy but thanks for the compliment. Browns are as many as Warm waters… So IT keeps me searching and researching… never thinking any one solution is the correct one until the box is found.

        I was looking up Brown trout in NM and El Vado. I saw a site about fishing private land in Northern NM and thought I’d look? It was there I saw the pic of what looked like f fishing… and after looking at the SB and the pic… I am convinced it is he/f.

        I believe it was the Quinlan Ranch located West of Chama. And While it is in the San Juan area… I can’t tie it to the poem. Fishing and Brown trout have always been hard for me to digest. But I try to stay open minded???

        The home of the Brown… Only f knows… I think?

        Man sometimes I get the feeling I’m last… chuckle n’!
        Mark H.

        • What do you find hard to digest about them Mark? Brown has always been Brown Trout for me. I believe brown is capitalized simply to let us know it is used as a noun rather than an adjective. If he said home of brown, that would mean a home that is the color brown. Not only would that refer to a structure but I believe it would be impossible to solve the poem if it was referring to a brown colored house. The other thought that crossed my mind were the hints included in TTotC. When I first read it I was looking for huge hints that would lead me to a specific location, but after time and reading it many more times I think the biggest hint in the book is merely his love of fishing. My solve is built around fishing. Waters, creek, put in. If we didn’t know that Mr. Fenn was a fisherman I think we would be much farther away and would possibly never have even considered Brown Trout as a possible solution to hoB so for me his love of fishing when I look back at it is a huge hint.

        • Mark,
          So true about it not being easy. If you only knew…
          I too have done my share of research with the trout fishing theory. Found one that still sounds pretty good to me too… I recall that name Quinlan Ranch also…
          Oh btw, Remember that Leyla SB with that picture of her holding a trout? Well I could have sworn I saw that same photo a year or so ago on google images while doing trout fishing research… I tried to find it again, but no success. Maybe I’m wrong, who knows. Our brains are so filled with images and words and imaginative vision, we’re not sure what’s real or what’s not anymore… At least I’m not! LOL

          Re: The home of the Brown… Only f knows…

          I do have a hoB… and I’m pretty sure no one else here searching has thought of this one… it’s different. I could be wrong about it of course, but I used my imagination and it’s very original. I’ll see if it pans out someday soon… 🙂

  31. after rereading Not Ob story i agree with him on a simple answer to poem. problem – the answers we each come up with can be so different. i have answer for heavy loads and high water but after his post i had another idea. he thinks heavy loads is the two trips back and forth. that is simple. well if it is heavy loads = the two trips then high water could mean the need to drink a lot of water. anyone ever hear of the term HE”S A TALL DRINK OF WATER for high water. it’s an old timers term. i have heard it in old westerns and books. i never met FF is he considered tall.

    • No offense intended because I respect other people’s opinions but how would drinking a lot of water get one closer to finding a treasure chest in the middle of the wilderness? Why would you need to and how what would happen after that?

      • all i was saying was Not Ob thought heavy loads = the two trips and their heaviest. it made me think of this old phrase from the west tall drink of water = high (drink of ) water. i could be wrong but it a simple way of looking at it. it may not be complicated. i know we hiked a trail in the afternoon at clear creek and we drank a lot of water however we are not tall. if fenn is at least 6 ft it would fit or not

      • seebee88
        from there it’s no place for the meek (QUITERS)
        the end is ever drawing nigh(time running out or you are almost done)
        there’ll be no paddle up your creek(meaning of paddle- move on water in boat using paddle. insert the NO + move on water in boat using paddle)
        just heavy loads (lugging the chest then treasure there)
        high water(his tall drink of water he drank a lot of water) very simple but better than using cipher and number. it does work IMO


    People Magazine rewrote the ABC/KOAT-TV mis-story today. What a shame. They conveniently repeated some of the mistakes made by KOAT and ABC. If the so called “information” press continues repeating the same mistakes I will have CO, MT and WY to myself. I asked Forrest about the NM remark. Here is exactly what he wrote back:
    “I didn’t say it, they did, and didn’t even consult me for the story.”

    Here is the so called information…
    Really lets us see how much original work goes into reporting these days and makes so much of what passes for news very suspect.
    This is so disappointing!!!

  33. There are two page’s in TTOTC that are not numbered.
    They are what should be page 51-52 and 107-108.
    Was this a typo, Deliberate by the printer, or hint or clue?

    • 1,2,3,5,8,15, thanks sharps….
      18,19,22,28, I get such good info here….
      30,34,36,44,46 shall I go on ?

      all un numbered pages before pg 51.
      I see a trend. The un numbered pages rise in number, if only they had one.

      Well, with that i’m off to pick up the treasure…..

      Heyyy, what you doin’ here, Kevin?

      • POG your comment on the page number raising was a joke right? if not they raised because they are number?

      • Lol….piratejim that’s funny.

        You will have to excuse the verbiage of a illiterate 10th grade drop-out. Maybe what I should have said was:
        Every page has a page number on one or the other side of the page, except what should be page 51-52 and 107-108……..compranda?

  34. there are around 33 pgs without # because of the picture but pgs 74,85,86 are number not sure there’s anything here

    • Oh Marie,
      You should stop that biting sarcasm and be nice about it……

      like ME !! 🙂

      • POG i reread it and i think you were saying the number if a one was added the number went up that way i am sorry if i misunderstood

          • OR him with me.
            I’ve sea water in my vein
            not water on the brain.

            Under the flag o’ black
            sits one little dog
            in a kayak.

            As far as ability to find the treasure:
            Fit in one more brain where his one sit
            And there you have one half- wit.

  35. I’ve made several comments challenging other people’s so in order to be fair I thought I would offer a couple of my own for others to criticize. These are my opinions regarding Warm Waters and Home of Brown. The biggest hint that I believe Mr. Fenn has given us is regarding warm waters in this question from Miss Kile’s website: This tells us that the place where warm waters halt is not one of a kind. We can also use this comment to do some reverse engineering. The Rocky Mountains extend a very short distance south of Santa Fe and since Mr. Fenn has told us that warm waters halt there we can figure out what kind of warm waters are there and how they halt.
    My opinion on the home of Brown is similar. I don’t believe the home of Brown can be anything one of a kind. Mr. Fenn has said on many occasions to start at the begging. Regardless of what you believe the first clue to be, unless you believe it is hoB, then by trying to determine the home of Home you would be able to skip the first couple clues and discount them as unnecessary. Molly Brown, Ranger Brown, and the many other examples I have seen for Brown, by using these you are making the preceding clues unnecessary. If you already have your hoB and know that’s where you will be, why do warm waters and canyon down even matter? Just my opinions. I like comments and criticism.

    • OK. Here are my opinions.

      1. You say “to start at the begging”, I say you’re wrong, we should stop short of begging… Forrest for a clue.

      2. You’re right, there are many homes of Brown, most of them North of SF. Once the clue referring to WWWH is figured out, the same type of clue will be referring to HOB.

    • heres my opinion – there are a lot of wwwh – but I think that hob is one of a kind – and when you find what it is you will know it

    • When Mr. Fenn says “Look at the big picture” is it possible that he mean this literally?

  36. Won’t give you any criticism, however you might consider this. A canyon can also be a rift between two mountain peaks. You wouldn’t even know you were walking in a canyon because most people think a canyon is something like the Grand canyon, of course not that big.

  37. i was reading ttotc and i noticed some of the pages have page numbers and some of them dont

    also there are some pages with photos on them and still other pages have what appear to be drawings

    not sure what to do with any of this but i think it leads to the treasure

      • Charlie,

        No offense, but there’s my problem with the book. if the book holds coordinates to help or find the chest then the book is an absolute must.

        yet FF has only stated all you need is the poem. and the book as a my knowledge I’ve never heard him say the book is a must or all you need is the book and the poem.

        So why would a set of needed coordinance be in the book and not in the poem?

        • Seeker,
          I’m on the same side of the fence as you. Fenn’s book may hold subtle clues in his stories, but all you really the poem. I for one am not a believer of coordinates hidden in his book, or any other cryptic subliminal message that needs to be be deciphered, analyzed, quantified, photosynthesised or whatever else some searchers do. The trick is figuring out Fenn’s twist on words. Pure and simple.

          Now to shake this magic 8 ball one more time…….

          • POD,

            Sorry buddy the 8 ball thingy doesn’t work. [ i tried ]
            What we need is Goofy’s Ouija board mouse pad…
            Personally I like the idea of coordinates on the poem. But I would not believe that Fenn put them in so they can easily be found. I think they may need to be in combination with another clue…
            And agree that the meanings of the common usage of words have a twist. Some may be simple, Some more difficult, some straightforwards. But with over a 160+ words… that is difficult.

            I looked up the word “Cold” and my jaw drop seeing more than 50 definitions and usages. Not only words but combination of words and phrase.

            How many ways can you say, “There’ll be no paddle up your creek?”
            In a bind.
            Stuck between a rock and a hard place.
            a difficult situation. etc. etc.

            Or break down the words themselves…
            does creek mean a flow of water? or could it just mean a narrow passage?

            Have ya ever looked up the word ” i “?
            There are books written on this supposedly simple, straightforward one letter word.

            I need to buy stock in Tylenol.

        • lol, Seeker, I was joking. My coordinates are from the poem. Not the pages in the book. In fact, the real only thing the book has done was reassure my numbers. Forrest Fenn, pages in the book…

        • My thing on the book,it’s fun to read…Also, one line in the poem directs me to a page in the book, which, directs me to another page in the book. That page offers some back up info. And that’s about it. Maybe a little back up info here and there, but that’s it. Mostly, seems like f just having fun. Like page 51. Looked more into it, JUN=10 or 1+0=1. So, there is your page number, 5 JUN or 51.

          • And yes,I know, it can be 510, or 6, just showing another way to see it. I feel numbers are solid though. Actually, my whole take on the page = Friday=9, 141=6, 5 JUN=6, 3 north main= 3 6 6 = 15 = 6. so you have 9,6,6,6 or 27 = 9. Page is regarding Skippy. Skippy=9, Skippy has something to do with the final spot.
            Skippy= “skip” P y= Y. Should have buried him standing up. Something that looks like a “Y” is also at final spot.
            Pg.56, Skippy holding a rock. Look at where Skippy is pointing, in the background. See the tree, looks like something with it’s hands in the air. That’s a tree stump, “Y” tree if you will.
            In the “middle” (word that is key) of stump. You’ll need a flashlight and a switch (s “and” w ich) to extract. Roughly 12′ in length will do.:) But, it’s all in the book, just hints. Need to solve poem for coordinates. IMO.

          • charlie i may be slow and i haven’t finish my coffee yet. i tried to read your info but i can not make head or tail of it. i can’t follow the logic you are using. again it maybe me.

        • yup, coordinates are in the poem. The words will give you your general info, but the letters are more specific, IMO.
          You remember when you were working on word associations a couple weeks back. I find it highly coincidental that the first letters in the nine sentences I use for coordinates = 36, and that the total words used in those lines = 63. 9 and mirrored.
          To me, it’s great support info. It doesn’t solve anything, but in “checking your work” it just so happens it checks out.
          For me, to have 9 lines that give me coordinates, 5 of which are latitude, 4 longitude. The lines to produce what’s above. The latitude = 22, longitude = 23, ( 4 & 5 ), And when adding the lines together with the stanza getting the exact elevation of those coordinates. It just doesn’t seem like coincidences anymore. I guess we’ll see come the end of the month. Do have to admit, Forrest Fenn equaling 14 & 8 is pretty good support info when checking alpha/numeric.

      • Have you (or others) compared books of TTOTC? Did your book arrive with the dust jacket on or off? Mine arrived with the dust jacket off. I had to fold it and put it on my book.

  38. My take on Home of Brown:
    You put in BELOW the home of Brown because it is above you, at a higher elevation.
    For example, some people have thought that Cimarron Canyon or Moreno valley was a home of Brown. But those are lower elevations. The Cimarron Range is above the area in elevation. So the canyons down from it would be where you would put in below the home of Brown.
    My idea is that the Home of Brown is not related to a human structure. It is a place of high elevation that may be named after something or somebody known as Brown.
    I rule out the brown trout theory because water follows the lower landscape, and brown in brown trout is an adjective.

    • But Michael Hendrickson… Brown trout are called “Browns” (noun) commonly by the fly fishing afficiados and therefore HOB applies. Fish can swim uphill you know. It’s that simple IMO

  39. we have not been listening in my opinion – forrest has shown us what is wwwh – home of brown the blaze and what the place where the tc is hidden except the location of where they are imo

  40. I agree Michael, and also there are so many locations in which brown trout have homes! Never know though?

    Wise I’m not sure about the pic with leyla, but there are several at this address: Let me know what you think… and for you folks on the Brown trout wagon I hope this goes somewhere for you!

    Mindy, who are you… when you first posted here I didn’t think much about it… but you have become so well informed… I’m in awe… I have to back up and go read your post again…darn. Which scrap book did you and Jones first begin to post? smiling.

    Seabee and Raven, I’ve always thought giving title was a contract of sorts, but his “rainbow and the chest” at the beginning… and “…take the chest and go in peace,” with “I give you Title… gold” at the end after my quest has ended… make me wonder if we aren’t talking about two things… it sure seems plural. I agree that f probably still has control of the chest, but how/why is a title necessary… I already have the Poem, blogs, and book as proof f gave it to us… if it’s finders keepers… why do I need a title.

    And I know I’m not keeping it simple… if it was… my ex wife would have already beat Kevin out of it!

    Mark H

    • Mark, I’m no longer looking for that pic of that Leyla woman. I just thought if I did find it, it would tell me that f possibly wrote that story, not some gal named Leyla.
      I have seen that site link before and have given it the same consideration. Btw, I’m not on the brown trout wagon.

  41. I should of said beat me out of IT… sorry to Kevin cheap shot!

    My point is again and again and again, so frustrating… Why does it say at the beginning, before the poem… if we follow the clues/rules precisely it will lead us to the end of f’s rainbow and the chest??? This is Fennism at its best IMO.

    Is it plural or are the things in the box his rainbow? I don’t think so… IMO his treasures are many; they cannot all be put in a material box. Did he paint a rainbow on a rock and put the chest below it?

    If I can’t get past the intro, how will I ever figure out Tarry Scant and Marvel Gaze?

  42. I am wondering if “from there its no place for the meek….” is not really a consecutive clue location, but more of a FYI only statement. Maybe ‘ From there its no place for…’ means its nearby at that point? Talk me outa that idea, OK?,

    • I marn, f sez we all have a chance to find the TC, but here he mentions a place that the meek should not be, so maybe we are not to go in its direction?

      • Well, I can’t talk you out of that one Musstag. He does say further down in the poem “if you are brave”… so he may not be saying it’s a place you shouldn’t be, but a place one may need to be… That is, if you are brave and in the wood. IMO

        • AH, YES wIiseone, that could do it. I felt that if you believe that the clues are the nine sentances, that meek ends with a semi-colon, and if you counted that it would be 10 .
          I am also having trouble finding a ‘meek’ either way, you need a meek area to your solve. I don;t feel its a white water area, or a deep creek hole that a fisherman could fall int0, I have read of some of those. Maybe a battlefield, I have been to the 59 earthquake area several days, but my wife would not go back to it after she was with me one time, she said it was to erriee to go to again.

          • I sometimes too like looking at the poem as 9 clues / 9 sentences, as a “big picture” perspective, but I also like breaking it down further from there.
            I believe I know of a “no place for the meek” for my theory/solve, and am debating if I am thinking it through thoroughly enough before I attempt actually going there. But I do believe we need to be Brave, so…
            I don’t believe “no place for the meek” refers to any of the places you’ve mentioned, except maybe the battlefield.
            I don’t know anything about the 59 earthquake area though, sorry.

        • Charlie, That’s exactly what I’m afraid is going to happen if and when I try going to search. “No Trespassing Gate”…

          • yup, I only say that because that’s what I got. But, from info I’ve gathered, everyone goes anyway.
            Actually, last time I went out, cops saw me beyond that point and said nothing. Maybe it was the South Gate police dept. cap I had on…:)
            If f did hide the treasure beyond a gate like that, I’m sure it would be okay.

  43. and in my defense we were walking… not talking! Walking briskly through the forest then I hear voice of course I’m going to say what yes that became quite irritating after a few miles….but, we didn’t kill eachother, didn’t die, and laugh now. 🙂

  44. I spoke with Kevin earlier and the update is that he will search again next Thursday 🙂
    I wonder if he is close 🙂
    He thinks he is 🙂 lets just wish him another safe adventure.

  45. Mark

    I believe his flashlight wasn’t a very good one he said so, so maybe he will buy a bright one 🙂

    • Amy, I could find my spot with only the stars to guide me. Although I do always have a flashlight 🙂

  46. No time spent in thought is wasted and nothing is too small to know, so one should not let knowing a little bit be a substitute for learning more

  47. Yates is still one of my odds on favorites to win! We b learn n’ Chris…
    Yesterday I sent something to someone in Italics…. Hmmm we are a kindred spirit.

    Hey wise in regards to that pic of f…

    Oddly, I think the pics of those ranches on the net, has a bordered frame…but the pic’s bordered frame sits on a map that is similar to the map on page 133 TTOTC… (The map of NM with the frog and gold?)

    Also it seem Bill Richardson the old Gov. of NM was or is the owner of the ranch!
    Are there dots to connect here???

    As it gets closer to search time, my brain starts jumping in every rabbit hole. I have several places to look, but I have been trying to put a Brown Trout solve together to add to my collection of places to search that the box prob isn’t… LOL
    It’s a hard process of elimination.
    Anyway, El vado, lake Huron Chama, are all in play but the poem doesn’t take me there… odd, it takes me everywhere else… lol.

    Michael H… I’ve seen you post info about El Vado, and Chama. Do you see anything here?

    Anyhow… here is the link again, anybody chewing on this… I know there are many following Brown trout.

    Mark H. Who has thought Brown is a Name of a person, animal, or flower…now also likes Brown Trout.

    • …Rio Chama, yeah I’d like to explore that stretch again. Maybe raft/ kayak all the way down from the dam, past the monk’s home, but just for the adventure- not treasure hunting. IMO, the scenery is so overwhelming that you’d be hard-pressed just to film enough of it.

    • El Vado means ford in spanish. Ms. Ford was FF’s spanish teacher. It was there that the largest brown trout caught in New Mexico is on display below the dam at Coopers Landing. It is there that many people put in rafts to float down the Chama to Abiquiu Lake. It is a very well traveled place. It is not isolated or far from the trail. And people do paddle up the creek. Still it is worth it to visit the area.

  48. last night I sent forrest my solve – and he did answer back with a thanks frank so at least he took the time to read it and I thank him for that I thought that was pretty cool

    • I wonder if someone ever sent him the correct solve if he would say so

      • Mark J.

        There was an article in Western Mag. [ I believe ] where he said… Paraphrasing…. ‘if you can tell me the exact spot…’ and maybe something to the effect …within 6″.

        It was some time ago and I’m pulling this comment up from the deep dark storage room in my brain. So take it as such.

  49. I think if Forrest said well u finally figured it out, so go and get it, that would take the fun out if it and the surprise . 🙂

  50. I didn’t expect for him to tell me if I was right or wrong with my solve – and you are right amy it would take the fun out of it and the surprise

  51. Hi frank, much luck!

    I hate to ask folks but I cant stop thinking about that cool pipe f has of Sitting Bull’s… I wonder how he came upon that pipe? I had asked before if anyone knew how f had attained it but no one answered? Geeze, the Winchester, Canteens, and Sitting Bulls Pipe it is almost a bigger wow than the mummy hawk, Minerva and the Reliquary.

    f, you have so many interesting things, I get lost! Sitting Bull was very interesting to say the least. I wonder about the story of how you came to have that pipe? I would think only a native American, or someone who was a descendent of such a great warrior and Chief would have something like that? I’m always awed, every time I think about it I get chills.
    Mark H. On the Chase

    • thanks mark – I bet if you email him with that question he would answer you – he would like that

    • The information is out there if you do your homework. Why do we need to bother Forrest with stuff he already wrote about? You guys used the slide too many times, didnt you?

    • There’s a story you can find by researching it, about Mr. Fenn being offered the pipe to purchase. He thought it was probably a fake but he and his daughter checked it out with photos of the real thing.

      Dal probably has the story somewhere or it could be on Mr. Fenn’s website.


  52. It is difficult for me to believe that ‘Brown trout’ would be associated with the poem.
    For this reason : One of the first things would come to ff mind using the word Brown in the poem, would be trout. Being the avid fisherman he is, as most people know, it would seem to me that would be the first conclusion most people would jump to with him knowing that. Are you ready to accept his thinking is that shallow that he would not know people would draw this conclusion? Now he may have wanted them to, for other reasons, but only he knows for sure.

    I could be totally wrong on my belief of ‘Brown’ as with trout. This is just my opinion and speculation and not carved in stone.

      • I don’t think that using Brown trout in the poem would indicate a shallow choice at all. In fact, it is a good choice because it could be so many different places. The trick is too link it up sequentially to the other clues. I would argue that it is unlikely that the “home of brown” is something particularly unusual or “one of a kind” precisely because it would become too important of a clue. However, it probably is a good idea to stay flexible, because if you rule out everything but one idea, you may just miss something really important.

    • ive went with the strategy where i try solving the first couple clues in the poem and see if any of them have to do with brown trout, rather than deciding what i think Forrest would or wouldn’t do

    • @sharpsburg I think you are touching on the right issue… Here is the question. Is Fenn trying to tell his story or is he trying to hide the tc well? If you look in ttotc, the most common use of brown is brown trout. So one very logical conclusion is that home of Brown is talking about trout…. but it goes back to “why” is FF doing this. Imagine a day 25 yrs from now, and Fenn wants his story remembered. So the more logical conclusion is that the stories in ttotc and tftw are in fact essential to solving the poem. I’m kind of surprised by this “Not Worthy” sort of attitude like the cover of tftw couldn’t possibly be wwwh because that’s too easy.

      • I guess it comes down to reality/logic; do searchers believe the brown trout hints in TOTC are subtle or not? Then one needs to ask themselves why did the parties who got the first two clues correct not seemingly get hoB (if brown trout is the natural selection)?

        • the parties who got the first couple clues did so because they got the correct HOB imo

          the things in the books, ttotc and tftw are hints not clues. hints just hint at things, while a clue would lead you to some actual location

          and so this is where i would part ways with some searchers, like saying the cover of the book is wwwh, because if any places mentioned or shown in the books were the places, then that would be a clue leading you to a location, but i dont think there are any clues like that in either book. and so it would go with mentions of yellowstone and any other place .. etc etc

          the books are full of hints, and hints at brown trout are hints but brown trout doesnt give you any actual location, so it is only a hint. but point being, imo, it is an authentic hint as opposed to any actual named or shown place which cant be a hint because it would be much more than a hint, and there are no clues like that except in the poem, so it is misdirecting you if you go to those places >>imo<<

          • Absolutely no value in misdirecting. Fenn wants to tell his story… please, think about when it’s over… he wants it to be Fenn Fenn Fenn, not 20 paces south, 40 paces east, 60 paces north. I is about the trout, it is about his favorite places, it is about the omegas

          • There is another type of Brown that he hints about over and over again in many of the stories in TTOTC and it isn’t brown trout. But you’re right about not giving the actual location, even if you decide that this Brown is in fact THE Brown, it still leaves ambiguous which home he is referring to because this Brown had many and so as a hint does not tell you the place.

    • endofthechase i did a quick google search and answer is NO metal detector or digging.

    • F knew exactly how much he wanted the chest to weigh. I don’t know why. Some ideas have been discussed in the past… 42 is considered the perfect number…

      Facts about 42

      In Mathematics, number 42 is called an abundant number.

      In Chemistry, number 42 is the atomic number of molybdenum.

      **The angle of rainbow is 42 degrees.**

      A 3×3×3 magic cube has a sum of 42.

      In the Ancient Egyptian religion, there are 42 gods and goddesses to represent the principles of Ma’at.

      In the bible, there are 42 generations in the Genealogy of Jesus according to the Gospel of Matthew.

      Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland has 42 illustrations

      42 is a magic number for programmers. In the TIFF image file format, it is the second 16-bit word of every file.

      Tiling a plane using regular hexagons occupy all in all 42 squares.

      Perhaps F likes Psalm 42 or Johns Description of heaven found in Revelation 4:2 fits the precious stones found in F’s treasure.

  53. Metal detecting Is allowed on BLM land in ALL states that have that type land. That’s also who you can get mining claims from on those gov,t lands

  54. Does anyone know if ff has horses or boats, if he is used to boating on rivers, creeks, streams, and if he would do that alone?

    BTW I’m new here and to the search – this is day 2 for me! Enjoying the fun and the puzzle… I’m sure I’ll be pulling my hair out in a few months. lol

    • welcome i was new not so much any more. one thing i do is if you are using a computer use the control key and the letter f. a little box will come up on screen and you type in the word you are looking for. also on this page is a search box that helps. READ ALL THE BACK POSTINGS YOU CAN!!!

  55. I’m taking a metal detector on my donkey… a shovel too! Of course I have rope and a ball of string… a wonderful dowsing rod that I purchased when I was at the Up **** Creek Paddle Store. I have two new magnets… a hundred pounder and a twenty five. And like Mark J. I have flashlights galore… Maybe a pimento sandwich… yuck I think! Okay no on that one, but maybe a greasy cheeseburger and green chili. I’m bringing my river shoes… my flip flops might get swept off my feet. And lets not forget the Garmin… should I rent a satellite phone?

    Mark H. making a list and checking it twice!

    • My Donkey is carrying my metal detector too! Not that You have to have one, but because its just fun to find interesting things Right? i Love a little donkey, so cute. And a great friend to have along on the Chase. Be Safe and have bells and bear mace.

      Lou Lee, Modern Day Treasure Prospector…..Chased by Bears, lives in Whoville

      • Thanks Lou Lee, my sense of humor is sometimes not so good.
        There is probably no need for a metal detector or shovel. Although I agree, they are fun.
        Magnets don’t work on Bronze, and I have no clue how to use a dowsing rod.
        I was just saying… prepared hunting is happy hunting. 🙂 But no playing on the bear spray or band-aids!
        Mark H. THU

    • Leave the magnets, not worth the weight to carry. Nothing in indulgence would be attracted to it (except maybe the wire on the beads, but not enough to attract a magnet). Be sure to put the gps in a waterproof bag if its waterproof. Don’t forget the bear spray, it should work on mountain lions if no bears in your area. Be leary of taking foods that might attract meat eating animals, I suggest sealed energy bars. They last longer and don’t need refrigeration if you going to be out a long time. Good decision on not taking the flip-flop, I found a lost one on my trip to YSNP, I sure they missed it on the way back to their car. Have fun and keep intouch.

    • i posted this before he uses this a lot the person who finds the chest will go in confidence. someone who confident is not meek.
      he tell us that now the harder work starts but remeber a 10 yrs kid could do it

  56. Confidence could be a trickster! And it unfortunately is. But… …Happy Hunting is prepared hunting… so my donkey’s carry n’ heavy loads and band-aids.
    Mark H. Going to cut some ZZZZ s… … Night!

  57. A couple of you commented that you probably wouldn’t hear from me again. Wrong. I told you I would have you proof on Wednesday. My fault. In my opinion (oops) it was only going to take me until 6pm to get there. With traffic delays and such, it was more than a 13-hr drive and I actually parked at about 830pm. It was damn-near dark but I made my way to the site anyhow, just hoping I would see something. I only had a cheesy flashlight and saw nothing. After 10 min there, it was pitch black and I had to make it back to the car. No, I didn’t see the Blaze but I didn’t expect to. It was too dark. I’m sure I’ll see it in the daylight. I had to be back home on Thursday because of the kids. It was not a wasted trip. I learned a few things—if Forrest didn’t bury it, it most likely is buried now. And no one is going to accidentally stumble across it just out hiking.
    So, on Wednesday morning the 13th I will leave again and drive there. I will camp overnight and on Thursday morning I’ll be at the site. Yes, I’ll definitely bring a metal detector which I didn’t have this last Wednesday. The find should be fairly quick. 20.2 troy pounds of gold should set a metal detector off like the 4th of July. The area isn’t too large.
    Kevin P, you’re asking, you said you know exactly where it’s at. Why didn’t you just pick it up? Let me explain “exactly”, Grasshopper. Forrest giving the map was like saying, “I’ve hid this chest in a house in New York.” Solving the riddle gives the exact house address and where in the house it is hidden. I happen to know the address and that it’s hidden in the basement. My problem was that the electricity was out when I got there. I’ll be back on Thursday morning when the loser homeowner pays his electric bill and the lights get turned back on. Now, it may take me 5 min or it may take me an hour looking through that basement to find it, but I will locate it. And with a metal detector I can’t think of any further roadblocks.
    It should be nice and sunny out so I’ll be sure to get good video of not only the digging-up but also the opening. Everyone at least deserves that, to see the contents for the first time when I do. Everyone has put so much time and effort into this, it’s the least I can do.
    Good luck to you all between now and next Thursday (not really) : )
    God bless and it’s been fun, K

    • Guess i better go search our, my, your, his spot tomorrow. I got the day off and pleanty of daylight.

    • Just checking on a couple of things:
      1. Did you really just address the entire blog as if you were their mentor?
      2. Did you also compare the natural rotation of the earth to “a loser homeowner not paying their electric bill”?

      Pretty clever to insult not only the participants on this blog but also nature in a single post. Well done! I am also a parent and this is not the kind of example I would ever want to set for my children.

      • Threerocks,
        1. I did not address the entire blog as if I’m their mentor. I was simply updating my status.
        2. Can you not take a joke?

        If this was insulting to the earth, I’m sorry. However, I think she took no offense. And if this was was insulting to any participants of this blog, I can’t see how you came to that conclusion. I’m sorry, though, even though I don’t know what I’m sorry for.
        BTW, my kids had no problem with the comment. They understand I was joking.

        • kevin i think calling us grasshopper like we were too dumb to follow was a little much even for me. i have found that what is typed & read don’t always come out the way we plan. it read a little harsh and condescending. i read something i type and add if this reads mean i meant in fun. on blogs you can’t see facial expressions, heard the person tone, or inflections. if you don’t mean to sound this way you might to want to type differently.IMO

      • I’m back. I just prayed to Mother Earth. She laughed and accepted my apology for my insensitive comparison. She laughingly told me to not let it happen again.

        • Kevin, why are you posting on this blog? It seems with each of your posts there is a need for recognition and superiority. Is there something you would like the members of this group to tell you? Maybe, good job? You are really smart? How clever you are? Can you let us know what that is so we can tell you that and you can then quietly move on to your futile journey next week?

          • Threerocks,
            This is being posted far enough back in the blog that I’m sure not everyone is going to read it. Who this message is for, I don’t know. Why I’m posting to only this blog, I don’t know or understand why. First, I’d like to sincerely apologize to you or anyone else that took offense to my update/post. I was honestly only joking and not trying to brag or down-talk to anyone. Maybe I should have read it with an open ear first before hitting ‘post comment.’ And now for something that I’m sure is going to stir a lot of negative comments…..
            I am a Christian. I’m not better than anyone else and I’m not claiming to be smarter than anyone else here looking for this chest. What I’m about to say is not my opinion, it’s fact. And I’m giving God all the credit for this one. This was not me. I am only the recipient. Otherwise, how can you explain tens of thousands of people putting in so many years of effort and thinking, some of them even going in as a team to mastermind finding this thing, and all coming up dry? Then here comes one guy all by himself who stumbles across this story and from that point, he solves it by himself in 2 weeks. IMPOSSIBLE!!! No one is that smart. Not me, not you, not Einstein, not anyone. The odds of that would be like winning the lottery and getting struck by lightning in the same day. Why God acted through me to give me the wisdom, or vision, or whatever you want to call it; I don’t know or understand why He allowed me to see and understand the clues so quickly and clearly. I will pray that He gives me the wisdom to understand all this.
            Right now I’m sure the right person is reading this. Maybe this is for one person, maybe it’s for several. Perhaps you were looking for a sign of something “great”. Maybe this is that sign or proof you’re searching for. Again, I don’t have the answer. I just feel honored and confused at the same time why He would choose me for this…
            It was God who did this, not me.

            If you took offense to this, I’m not apologizing for this one. This was not me. Don’t look at me with awe and wonder and amazement. God gets all the credit for this find.

            Good night all and God bless,

          • i read your and thank you for your honesty. blogs can be brutal so hang in there. use IMO dont be too boastful. keep a lot of your solve and plans between you and yourself. let us know next time you go search and how it works.

          • Kevin P: “Why God acted through me …”

            Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, Kevin you are way out of line and an embarrassment to my Christian faith.

            I could say something humorous like, “God would have told me first if he was going to show you the way” but this is not funny.

            Do you realize you have placed Jesus on a cross based on you finding the chest? if you don’t find it then your Jesus is not Lord. Of course I already know He is not at risk except for public opinion that you may impact.

            If you are sincere in your Christian Faith tell everyone that it is not Jesus’ credibility that you are placing on the line. We all already know this is not true but your acknowledgement is probably as close as you will ever get to saying this is all ‘your’ guesswork.

            In other words, no find, your fault…crow pot pie.

            Come on dude man up

          • Oh Kevin… You are going to find out that God has a sense of humor.. You are going to look up from that basement and He will be smiling down on you…. 🙂

          • Kevin, having faith and being willing to act on it is a great attribute. Having humility and being willing to apologize for a perceived offense is another. I hope you are successful this week. I hope you are also prepared that the success achieved may not be marked by collecting the TC, but rather by a set of experiences and stories that you otherwise would not have had. This is the gift FF has given the many thousands of individuals that have taken the challenge. Not a single one of us have left empty handed. Each and every one of us have been provided something along the way and you will also have that opportunity if you allow yourself to be open to the possibility.

    • Kevin P wrote –
      After 10 min there, it was pitch black and I had to make it back to the car. No, I didn’t see the Blaze but I didn’t expect to. It was too dark. I’m sure I’ll see it in the daylight.

      Thanks for easing my mind Kevin. I was a little worried you had found the blaze and were going to retrieve the chest. The blaze in my solve does not require a flashlight, so the sense of urgency I was feeling to beat you out there has passed.

      Good luck to yo and stay safe.

      Scott W

    • Sorry, but your story makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

      First, you say you know EXACTLY where a million-dollar treasure is, and all you have to do is drive to it and pick it up.

      Then, you drive for 14 hours in one direction – knowing you aren’t going to arrive at the destination until nightfall. And, when that happens, you only look for the treasure for 10 minutes before giving up and driving 14 hours back the other way?

      A 30 hour trip – and you can’t be bothered to spend more than 10 minutes looking for the million dollars (which, let’s not forget, you KNOW EXACTLY WHERE IT IS). You also, apparently, bring absolutely none of the required equipment. And, can’t hang around for a few hours until daybreak (or use your car headlights, etc…).

      Something is telling me that when you don’t find the treasure and finally make your solution public – it’ll be one of those delusional ones where people start re-arranging letters randomly and using numerology to get numbers which have absolutely nothing to do with anything, and then converting those back into a word which also has nothing to do with anything.

    • kevin you said in your tremendously long message that no one would accidentally stumble across the treasure while hiking.first of all if would have been paying any attention to Forrest Fenn months ago he already said that you will not stumble across it you will actually have to look for it however you said it as if it was some great big revelation from Heaven,just thought I would mention that because all who have followed this at all already know that but we appreciate the extra clue there.oh and by the way mother earth doesn’t talk back have a great time looking in the basement,

      • Louie,
        The comment about stumbling across it accidentally was not a subtle clue. However, I did include an actual subtle clue in that tremendously long message. Sorry for it being so long but I did want to hide it.
        Good luck,

        • So, instead of waiting at the place you KNOW the treasure is sitting for you – you drive 14 hours away, wait a week, and give subtle clues?

          You do THAT instead of waiting at the site and guarding your treasure? How odd…

          • I didn’t expect a real reply (and look, I got exactly what I expected)!

            There are 30,000 people looking for the treasure – a million dollars you claim to KNOW where it is. So, again, I ask the question you aren’t willing to answer: what’s so important that you can’t go immediately to the chest and collect your million bucks? Anyone else could just solve the puzzle at any time and take your money from you, so why are you waiting? Why aren’t you sitting at the location until daylight, guarding it from the other 29,999 treasure-hunters? What’s more important than a million bucks?

            All you had to do was wait around for a few hours until daylight and collect a free million dollars in gold. So, what was so important you couldn’t do so?

  58. I just made a HUGE breakthrough in the poem. (IMO)
    I can go with confidence to the right spot, at least on a google earth view! If Kevin is not in NM he is in the wrong spot…(IMO)

    • where pray tell michael d? (that reads smarty or not nice but its meant to be a nice question)

    • Nice MD….I have had a few, but nothing with extreme confidence. Good Luck and I hope you find the treasure. Find a treasure everyday. Best wishes…

      Lou Lee, from Whoville

  59. Here is something to think about. It may be a clue. Let’s look at the author’s name, Forrest Fenn. Fenn, according to Wikipedia is defined as, “… typically appears as a surname. Occasionally it appears as a middle name, pen name or name of a fictional character.” It has been used by many authors and other notable people. Fen (one n removed) is defined by Webster’s as, “low land that is covered wholly or partly with water unless artificially drained and that usu. has peaty alkaline soil and characteristic flora (as of sedges and reeds)”. Wikipedia describes a fen as “… usually fed by mineral-rich surface water or groundwater.” This would be consistent with a water area close to mineral springs such as those found in YSNP and many other areas in the Rocky Mountains.
    Now let’s look at the first name, Forrest. Like with Fenn, let’s remove one letter, in this case an r and we have forest, defined by Webster’s as, “a dense growth of trees and underbrush covering a large tract.”
    Now let’s put forest and fen together and we would have a mineral-rich water area within a dense growth of trees.

  60. Where warm waters halt: ice, frozen, snow…Glacier National Park.

    Not far, but too far to walk: the main road “not far” from the West entrance is Going-To-The-Sun Road.

    This takes you to Mt. Brown. I’m guessing in a cave or in the woods below the base.

    • Water High: Upper Lake Snyder
      Another thought about Going to the Sun Road – No place for meek folks
      Take a look at Gun Sight Mountain
      Dead Wood Falls (In the Wood)

      Hope this helps your solve a bit.

      • uken2it,
        The ‘reply’ for your previous comment is not available for some reason. This is in response to that comment.
        Sure, I’ll man up. I’m sorry for putting Jesus’ reputation on the line for my ‘guess’. But I suppose at the same time I’ll just have to say everyone better start calling me the luckiest man on the planet. In 2 weeks, with no help from any outside influence, I solved a million dollar riddle that thousands couldn’t solve in years. If you want to call that luck, you go right ahead. However, I think not. I was just trying to give credit where credit is due. And this ‘guess’ tells the EXACT spot on the map where it’s located. As FF has previously stated, “The person who finds the treasure…..and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental.” The hints in the riddle lead right to the chest.

        • wondering what makes you think you are the only one that has “solved” it. For all you know, someone else already has solved it but has not been able to go and get it.

          • Mark J
            You’re absolutely right. And that is one thing that is stressing me out right now. However, I have other obligations at home. I’m just gambling that no one is there before I arrive on Thursday.

        • Well Kevin – We get to continue to listening to your “confidence” babblings; pardon those of us who are smiling and understand it is just arrogance. You’ve definitively solved it, been there twice; yet still remain without the prize.

          So your next trip out will be with a metal detector huh? Seems to be the recurring story of the ambitious newbie convinced that they have the right spot, but just need to look under the ground now to find it.

          This might be worth considering, but you probably won’t.

          Just so all you seekers know, me and the lads did not dig beneath that thar tree of ours. A mysterious fellow named “f” once
          sent us a curious poem, part of which said somethin’ like: “…while fools argue about the quest, he won’t even need a tool, as
          he carries out the chest.”

          Good luck packing those tools; perhaps we will get to hear more about you having read another of the clues incorrectly after your next trip and then it will be the trip the following week or two after that which will be the retrival… eventually experience will be your humbling teacher.

        • Kevin,
          You apologize for putting Jesus reputation on the line yet you mockingly say I am calling it luck “If you want to call that luck, you go right ahead.” which seems as though you indeed don’t call it luck, which seems you are back to putting Jesus reputation on the line.

          Oh by the way, Jesus was humble.

        • Kevin, Your comments are most confusing. You say you’ve solved it but still have no chest to prove your solve is actually a solve… Don’t you think there are other searchers that have had a great deal of confidence in their theory and potential solve? These people wouldn’t go search if they didn’t feel confident… Why do you think you are so different? I mean especially after only doing this for a few weeks… I’m not trying to be mean here but, think about what you are saying.
          You also speak of a hint in your comment to someone else that you believe is to do what… understand some kind of message? What does this other person or persons have to do with you possibly finding the treasure? It sounds as if you believe someone else is supposed to see some kind of great sign or message to gain some wisdom that you are trying to convey? You are not making much sense Kevin, IMO. Sorry.

    • You don’t need a paddle to go up Snyder Creek you can just take the trail. Its a 4.4 mile hike according to the reader board at the trail head to the campground at Snyder Lake.
      Snyder Lake is is just above the 5,000 foot elevation.
      When I searched that area I couldn’t find an access to Upper Snyder Lake that an eighty-year old man would dare to take or one I even wanted to.
      If you happen upon a bear on the trail, he could be my friend I had a meeting with. His name is Brown.

  61. Kevin, and Michael D, I am so glad you guys are out there, I mean it! You guys truly are out there, as in a John Denver Rocky Mountain High,”Far Out There Man!

    I too have been far out there, so take it from us old guys *(you old guys who blog here know who you are) we who are “OUT THERE” or have been like far out there, WE like many others who are confident about our solve, need to state, or should always tell your/our solve on this blog or somewhere, otherwise when you or we do not find it, our “hunches” are wasted in the sand of time..if we get lost in the morass of imagination, without communicating to one another we are walking Zombies with a singular cause, not a good one.

    Remember ff says “Imagination is more Important than Knowledge”. So Imagine communicating with each other as if we were friends and fellow pirates! Can’t we all just try to communicate?

    No, instead we secret our solve away as though someone will steal it and find the TC! This selfish act is not unlike “Fellowship of the Ring” where everyone who tried on the ring was possessed with selfishness and greed, when the real answer to this poem is “Cooperation, Communication and Counsel” that is how Middle Earth, the Rockies shall be conquered.

    Both of you have a great IMAGINATION but it is of little help if you do not express it even after a failed search..

    Please just post it like the hiking shoes that the Boy Scouts discard after a summer season of hiking in the place at or near the where I believe ff really did hide the TC.

    If it is found at my solve, I take 51% of the credit for solving the Thrill of the Chase!

    So lets hear from you all about who is really in this “Chase” and who are the armchair quarterbacks! HA! HA!

    PS write me your solve and lets reflect your logic? Because as Thomas Edison once said after being asked why after 10,000 failures for attempting to inventing the incandescent lamp why he continued? “Well those were not 10,000 failures I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.”

    • Tom – I think your inbox is about to be filled with 10,000 bogus solves.

      Let me know how that works out. 🙂

      • It is 4:30 PM on Mothers Day, so I am checking, my inbox and thinking out loud. q1werty2, yours is sound advice and shows you have insight, so send me yours too..

        Imagine “Cooperation, Communication and Consultation” and of course Whirled Peas, using turn signals and all that Peacefully Coexist stuff and this pirate ship may actually move in the right direction. God bless the memory of John Denver, from Roswell, NM Far Out!

        Tom Terrific.

        • Tom,

          In all seriousness, what advantage is there to having a huge group of solvers for open cooperation created from the emails you received compared with doing the same on Dal’s blog or some other blog? Would your group all sign something or go on trust? If signing on I can understand the difference. Otherwise I don’t understand the need to have group think in smaller groups.

          Thanks – uken2it

    • TT,
      I “musta got lost” (J. Geils Band lyric) reading your post. May just be because I am an ‘old guy’. I may be missing the obvious in your message, today is a bad brain day for me, but here are a few questions I have:

      1) Should we post our solves for all to see? And so we won’t become a Zombie.
      2) Communicate as though we are friends? Cooperate until solved, winning solve takes lions share the rest get crumbs/nuggets. Something like this
      3) “So let’s hear from you all” and you offer your email address? So public sharing and/or private sharing? I don’t understand.
      4) “So lets hear from you all about who is really in this “Chase” and who are the armchair quarterbacks! HA! HA!” I am not sure if you are soliciting information from armchair quarter backs or just deriding them.

      I’ve yet to get BOG so I guess I am an old guy of little worth in your thinking?

      • uken2it, the reason you got lost is because we are all on a wild goose chase without cooperation, so what I am advocating is this:

        Unless we begin to express our solves with each other either in private or on this blog or Chase Chat etc, none of us is anything but the Lone Ranger, so far ff is batting a thousand and the Ranges Zero, a Zombie, Zilch, etc, so who is with me on this?

        uken, you are smart and I have read many things you wrote, so you took this the wrong way if you think I consider you or your words worth little, everyone has something to offer in this, otherwise why do we read every quote?

        What troubles me is someone, even many commenters out there could actually have a piece of that puzzle that would lead to a correct solve. Imagine if something you figured out led me or another to the TC, I would not have a problem giving you credit for it.

        Some, including me have taken many trips into the Rockies with a hunch only to be disappointed, I am the first to admit that by myself ff has the upper hand in this Chase, and he probably will as long as we play the lone rangers.

        I have learned a lot about my search areas from boots on the ground, but imagine if thousands of ideas and boots were applied to this hunt and done in a spirit of “I tried it this way at this place so is my solve wrong”? Or was there something I missed?

        Some have done this in the past and we read and analyze their thinking, I personally have learned a lot that way, more than someone chiming in with just criticism, sarcasm or comments aimed at bring another one down. (Teddy)

        Go back and review what I posted and ask me why I spilled the beans, OK.

        Tom Terrific

        • Tom T: I think it is great that folks like to share their solves, opinions, etc. In fact, all of the searchers stories on the “other searches” page are fascinating. Do you have one posted there or is it posted elsewhere? I assume you have already done so since you have indicated you have done lots of searches and are imploring everyone else to share.

        • In my point of view, the Lone Ranger is noble, selfless, and fought for the little guy. Try lone wolf, it conveys your meaning much better.
          Of course IMO…

        • Tom,

          Your response is well received, thank you.

          I am not sure what you mean about spill the beans though since I find nothing like that in your message. You had mentioned I go back and read so that I would understand why you spilled the beans.

          As you can see I agree whole heartedly about sharing openly to discover the correct solve. I am not sure if you envision giving credit to another or also sharing in the value of the treasure.

          If I lived in New York with no BOG am I and arm chair quarter back? In Santa Fe yet had no BOG would I be an arm chair quarterback because I didn’t find a solve worth pursuing?

          Another way to view what I am trying to convey is to say BOG is nothing without a solve. And a solve is nothing without BOG. Both are needed and just as important since either is nothing without the other.

          If I am correct and you agree arm chair folks and BOG folks are both valuable in the search. The sum values cannot be determined over the internet.

          It is complicate and I will just share ideas now and then.

    • Tom – aren’t you the guy that thought he could figure out statistically where the treasure was by accumulating data from everyone else’s solution? Or wasn’t it something like that?

      • …great pep talk Tom, now go start your own website. There’s no groveling or panhandling here, man-up

    • tomterritic i am not selfish person and i have posted some of our. i work hard on it and if you don’t mind we will keep it SECRET till we get go search. hubby wants to what in the world have you been smoking?

  62. I need an honest Santa Fe area searcher willing to split the treasure 50/50, and sign a document that says that, to reply to me on this blog in front of everyone, and then we can go to private e-mail from there….I am dusting off that pink tutu…but I ain’t gonna need it this time…IMO

    • Michael D,
      I am an honest searcher… not of Santa Fe, but elswhere. I live close enough to Santa Fe to engage in a search for you. I will not be searching my particular area for some time and it would be kind of fun to pass the time. I am willing to sign any required documents and am willing to do it for much less than 50 percent. Heck I’ll do it for the gas money (only if the TC is located where you say it is, if it is not found there, then don’t worry about the gas money). If you don’t have my e-mail, it is abqnewkey at Everyone tends to feel that their solve is the correct one, so on that note, it is my feeling that you will have to eat crow… IMO.

    • I’m in Albuquerque. I don’t want the coins, because they are boring. If there is a shamans mojo turquois necklass, I’ll take that. Since I only have one leg I won’t run off with the treasure. And, I can only walk 500 feet I would be the perfect person to measure how far an 80 year old man would walk from his car.
      Pick me.

  63. Pick me, Michael D!! I am honest, and I am a New Mexico searcher, and I look good in pink. My disadvantage is: I can not search until mid-June. I am willing to sign that document. e-mail:

  64. Hello everyone, I am brand new to the “Chase”, only heard about it last week. In that short period of time it has consumed me entirely. I have already purchased and read “TTOTC” and have spent countless hours doing research. Is there any Clues and or Advice anyone can give/offer to someone who is starting 5 years late?

    Thank you

    • wildbirder new to blog not chase. read every old posting you can and all the interviews long ones. take notes. get life partner on board or find a divorce lawyer.

    • Welcome to the chase Tony. To answer your question you can start by reading every page, watching every video, and visiting every link on this blog. That should get you up to speed enough to understand what folks here are talking about. Then you can start through the comments; may the force be with you.

      On a side note, if you heard of the chase one week ago the most time you could have spent is 168 hours……..not really countless IMO.

    • …I wasted 1000’s of dollars chasing stuff I thought I saw on Google Earth, ie crop circles. It’s one thing if you’re just a day away, remember G.E. imagery isn’t CIA/ Defense Dept. quality

      • we only only use it for towns, roads, canyons, trails, it great to show where park boundaries are i have used the path command and traced lines so i can turn them on and off. have take any mountian tours those are fun to give you birds eye view. it also shows creeks and rivers

    • Go over all the old Scrapbooks, skip the comments. Forrest did make a few interesting comments under the name Forrest Fire- one was about his hot water heater flooding the mail box in his garage, and he was dizzy, so wanted someone to send him an extra strength Tylenol. Mostly though, comments are just a million different opinions. The Scrapbooks may or may not hold clues, I think they do. If you dwell on the comments, you will never get through the Scrapbooks. Also check Vignettes, they may have clues.

    • Here is some advice: I write stuff down since there’s so much information. I have multiple 3-ring binders storing my notes and my ideas. My binders are organized by facts vs. opinions. My binders have many dividers, for example I have dividers for each of the “9 clues” – since I’m not sure which the “9 clues” are: I have 12 of those sections. Dal’s website is organized very nicely – use this as an example of how to organize your notes. I have a map on-line, I have marked all over; and a large hard copy map, I have marked all over.

      Since there’s so much research to be done: here is a very sad thing that happens to me: I read something – and I don’t realize it’s important until later – then I can’t find where I read it. So I try to save notes and my ideas in my 3-ring binders (and in files on my computer).

      Have lots of fun!!!!

      • I have everything memorized. I could recite the entire poem off the top of my head at any moment. All of the information on this Chase is in my head as well (but, not to the exact phrase or wording). The only things I have kept written down are anagram attempts of key phrases, to ask Forrest about if I find the chest. The only reason I would want to organize binders like you suggest is to show others around home my train of thought and direction. The only problem is…I’m the only one anywhere remotely around home here in VA that gives a darn about this Chase 🙁

  65. Hello Tony,

    This is the place where dreams are made. Dreams of adventure, travel, excitement entering the unknown. Facing challenges and overcoming adversity.
    Choice of circumstances from dull routine to eating humble pie, or soring to the heights finding your dream of treasure. And it’s all up to You.

  66. Hello! I just wanted to introduce myself. I’m new to this blog but not to the chase. I’ve already went searching once and I’ll be going back in a little less than 3 weeks with a good friend (William Ortiz) of mine that’s really in tune with this little adventure. He’s been on this blog for quite some time and has done tons of research. To my wife’s dismay, he introduced me to this search about 6 months ago and we’ve been plotting trips together ever since. 🙂 This is our main search, but we have another one that’s here in Florida that we’re right on the verge of obtaining so hopefully we’ll have both within the next month or two. Anyhow, I just wanted to stop through and say hello to all of you devoted searches.

    Clarence – Tampa, FL

  67. To the new searchers

    Get ready for a lot of reading 🙂
    Good luck 🙂

  68. I know this isn’t one of the nine clues but where did “it’s hidden North of Santa Fe” come from? In one interview I heard an interviewer make a comment to Forrest that it was hidden North of Santa Fe but he never confirmed it nor denied it. Otherwise I have never seen anything from him actually that states it is hidden North of Santa Fe. Reporters, bloggers and journalists have said it but I haven’t actually seen where he has given that clue.

    • Penny, if someone hasn’t already said… page 131 in TTOTC, f tells us it is somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe. He has since said the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe. Read your book and, IMO, you may discover some thing/s.

    • He doesn’t want you digging up his yard and following him around. He lives in Santa Fe. So, put two and two together…

  69. Oh, yes

    And Happy Mom’s Day to all you Moms out there.

    Good night all and God bless,


  70. Does anybody think that all the locations can be identified by just looking at the google map or some clues will reveal themselves when you are actually doing the hike?

    • in my opinion, it can be solved entirely before you search, with TTOTC and the right maps

      theoretically, i think someone could find it on their first search, but realistically, that would never happen imo, and it may never happen, even though i believe f did make it solvable but very difficult

    • IMO, I believe that the first 2 or 3 clues can be solved before putting boots on the ground, however the remaining will not become absolutely clear until you see them while you’re in action. I think that’s why a few searchers have solved the first 2 clues but then proceeded right past the rest.

    • IMO, I don’t think you find them by looking at the map. I believe you solve them and then find your individual solves on the map. All of them.

      That’s my take on it anyway.

      Scott W

  71. You are so right Hope. Google Earth images could be outdated, not showing current groves of trees, and will not warn about wildlife inhabiting the area. Most locations I’ve searched look compact on GE but are more vast in reality and more difficult to pick out land marks on the ground. Always fun to hike, but be bear aware when in bear country.

    • I say this not to argue but to encourage those not able to search with BOG. Google earth is not outdated to the extent a grove of trees would not be seen. Google your neighborhood and see if trees are missing.

  72. Saturday I went up to Angel Fire via Mora. Beautiful drive albiett part of it was up a one lane road with motorcycles and giant pickups coming from the other direction. When I got to Angel fire I asked if there was a passable road over to Agua Fria Lake from there. I was told that there was not. Just dirt paths. I was advised to go around the other side of the range and see if the road was open from there. So, I went down around Cimarron to Philmont Boy Scout Ranch to the Gate at the UU Bar Ranch. It was closed. All the gates were closed. Everything was closed to public access. OK, I will cross Rayado Canyon and Cimarron Range off the list.
    Mora has some great scenary to explore next.

  73. Hi, Michael, I also have stopped at the UU. I think Bob Funk owns it. I read somewhere he said, paraphrasing… chasing down, catching and roping a prize bull provided him an awesome thrill of the chase??? Can’t remember where I got that, but there you go.
    When visiting the museum at Philmont I was even more awed… the first thing that threw me for a loop was a brand new Marvel pinball machine with the Avengers that had just been donated? I’ve never been sure what Tarry scant and marvel gaze meant??? But for some reason, I have bumped/ran into Marvel and Legos many times on the hunt?
    Wait Phillips, Lobo, and a few of the kids, who had just arrived for the season, all were very familiar with the Chase. I still don’t to make of it??? The Tooth thing is odd?
    I’ve not finished with the Cimarron area yet. Right Tom! But your right about Mora being next.
    I always appreciate your input sir.
    Mark H. Saw a Dr. Pepper can in the desert!

    • fenntreasuremarksblogsite, are you talking to me? , or just singing my song, how did you like the Kit Carson museum? That Blacksmith shop does a lot of work for the upkeep of the Philmont Scout ranch. I saw the Smith working the forge aka Smithy make a set of horseshoes and fix an old Bear Trap from the museum in Kit’s home. Just after the tour a Bus load of young Scouts pulled up and unloaded heavy back packs to travel up Rayado Creek to Aqua Fria Lake. I wish I go backpacking and fishin too.

      When I was a kid going through “girls makin trouble” (ff) and all, I was a Boy Scout, and later an Explorer Scout, Life Badge proudly displayed, just went into the Navy before reaching Eagle, but all that training made my life a lot easier, especially in country with Amphib Forces, and those experiences kept me busy and away from a lota mistakes.

      …I wonder if that could be the message in all this?

      Just remember ff said we will be surprised where it is hidden…??

      Tom Terrific

      • Yes Sir, I was talking to you. You’re very sharp and well informed!

        It wasn’t too long ago I was a big Kit Carson Fan. Then after a little bit of reading about The Long Walk and some not so nice pics, I changed my mind. So much to learn and so little time.
        As for the black smith… everything was closed the first time through and bikers and police were everywhere the second time. I mostly drove around without ever stopping. It was the same on other hunts for me as well, I just didn’t take my time… always in a hurry. This year… I’m a turtle.

        Lurkers and new folks beware. I have no clue where f’s box is… these are so far… just awesome places and history!

  74. I forgot, and it’s raining here…I remembered that several years ago some of The Lone Ranger movie had been filmed at Philmont and if I remember correctly some of the searchers were invited to watch it.
    What drew me there… was gold. “Gold, gold and more gold.”

    I just wanted to add I’m not trying to send anyone on goose chase. It’s awesome country to see and experience. and could be where IT is?
    Mark H.

  75. ive been doing a lot of thinking lately. last couple nights the gears were really turning, i think there may have been some smoke as well

    it reminded me of this sentence from TTOTC

    I remember sitting down beside the road for about an hour to consider my lot in life and ponder if anything was left of my future

    im coming up with a new strategy for finding FFs trove called ‘less is more aka subtraction is better than addition’

    only problem is i was never any good at math

    • Chris, you just have to see the cat. And maybe a cow. And home in with tight focus on a rabbit maybe. Throw a couple of kings in there and stay in the state you’re in, and you’re close, IMO.

      • pull a rabbit out of the hat?

        f did say it was a magical place.

        next time you talk to f, ask him how close i am, and if he can state it in feet, unless its more than a mile, then miles

  76. I think your in your car for the first couple of clues…. you start your car trip wwwh and take it (your car) in the canyon down, not far but to far to walk and you “put in” = you car, below the home of brown…

    then you get out of your car and start your journey as such…

    • Philly,
      You just maybe correct. I have been thinking about different ways to see / read / interpret the poem… On thought is All nine clues are individual to each other.
      Example: WWWH, some like Glacier National Park. ok.
      Take the canyon down, maybe refers to the Grand canyon.. who knows it might. and so on.

      By locating all the point [ nine clues ] and connect them together leads to the chest. NOT by traveling the points, but by marking them on a map drawing lines to intersect the all to the location the chest is at.

      Oh wait, what about some searcher got the first two clues correct and walk / went by the other seven. Could be they followed a straight line missing the correct seven other clues.

      Many like the stories from the book as clues. All seemingly special places to FF. Could it be those places represent the clues and need to be lined up and point to a single spot? That would be subtle enough for me.

      Just another useless thought.

      • good thinking…

        I was trying to keep in simple in that interpretation cause I have so far flung ideas and I do not think they are anywhere close to being it..

        • Glacier National Park was one of my wwwh.
          Rockies where warmer winds from the west wring the rain out of clouds. Triple Divide could have hints in line one considering the ‘threes’ some see.

          I still take a look there now and then… online only so far. My solves are not complete yet, none of them.

          • Uken2it,

            I have never been to Glacier, Can’t believe I haven’t. I think we have not heard about people searching here much because its just that much further than many people feel they can travel. I have always wondered with Forrest making comments about Canada. You Know what I mean?
            There is a Brown Mountain, and its suppose to be one of the most beautiful places on the planet.

            Lou Lee Bear from Whoville!

          • I’ve looked at Glacier National Park as well. It has “home of brown”, “warm waters halt”, places not for the meek. It also is part of the “waterton-glacier international peace park”. It’s the only solve I’ve come up with so far that brings in the “go in peace” part of the poem.

      • F.F. received a email from someone/s of the first two solves of the poem that were correct. And by-passed the other seven clues in the poem. He did not say they physically went there. I think this should be made very clear.

        • Sharps, Then how did he come up with a feet distance that they were within?

          • Are you assuming they had sent a map or coordinates showing where they went?

          • He might not be telling the closest someone has come. When he says they were within 200′ of the chest, the information that they had sent Forrest might have had them within 10′ of it. But Forrest might not want to say they were within 10′, so he says they were within 200′. It is not incorrect for him to say that, he is just not saying everything that he knows.

            Just my thought on it.

          • I agree. In the book his dad says tell the the truth. Just maybe not all of it.

          • WiseOne.

            You are one sharp cookie, and backed me into a corner with your question.

            All I can tell you is, I remember ff saying it was someone’s first two solves of the poem via email, that went right pass the other seven clues of the poem. And just maybe… in order to solve the first two clues, you would have to be within x amount of feet of the chest.
            That’s just a guessamation on my part.
            Hope this answers your question from my end.

          • I always toyed with the idea that clue3-clue9 was all within 200 feet total which would explain why they went by the other 7 and also why they were 200 feet just my IMO

          • Truthfully I don’t know if HOB is the third clue or not but it would logically seem that the 3-9 clues are 200 feet. This is more of an idea and not really a opinion.

          • As do I… 🙂 So if forrest does not want to say someone was that close, there has to be a reason, besides him just wanting to be vague…

          • He said it To be fair. 200ft is still a HUGE area to narrow down if you haven’t figured out the clues to narrow it down yourself. Imo. He doesn’t want to give anyone an unfair advantage. He says go back to the poem so many times…well, you get the point..

          • What you are all missing is the fact that the person was 200′ away over the months of winter, likely January, February as the question was answered I BELIEVE in March. I don’t know any other searchers besides myself looking at that time. I however was in New Mexico and corresponding with Forrest via e-mail of my location and how I used my UV flashlight on the blaze. Problem was the treasure was under a pile of frozen gravel. Also answer this. If no one else knows of the location, how then does he know of anyone in the area? Either he knew EXACTLY where I was by telling him online, or , it is the fact that my spot is at the very end of the power line. Simply put it is where WWWH, behind N.M.E.(New Mexico Electric) lines.
            There is a field below (500′) that I actually watched the guy chop wood. IMO, thats why you tarry scant “as to not be seen”. There is also a tiny trailer that is angled in a weird direction that points to my spot. It would be simple to have a camera mounted to monitor the area I am searching. As it has been said, Forrest paints a picture of what he wants you to believe….that the chest is way out in B.F.Egypt. If you really want to hide something, put it right under their noses.
            And THAT my friends is where its at.

          • It’s been 200′ since last july, mildew. But good thoughts on the lodes and watts!

          • JD thanks for correcting Mildew. Ok Wedlim your UV ain’t gonna do you much good.

            Hi Forrest, I would like to know if the blaze can be found during the day without a flashlight. Thanks, Ron

            Perhaps your question is wrought with trickiness Ron. Are you really asking if the blaze could be in a cave where it is dark during the day, thus the need of a flashlight? If there is no subterfuge intended in your question then I would say yes.f

          • Hi Forrest, I would like to know if the blaze can be found during the day without a flashlight. Thanks, Ron

            Perhaps your question is wrought with trickiness Ron. Are you really asking if the blaze could be in a cave where it is dark during the day, thus the need of a flashlight? If there is no subterfuge intended in your question then I would say yes.f

            So which question is he answering yes to? Ron’s or his question right before he says yes.

  77. OFF TOPIC:
    I am hoping to contact any Brits out there who may be planning a trip to the USA to do some searching…or Brits that are already here and planning to search. A British newspaper is interested in following British searchers for a story. If this interest’s you…please email me and I will explain more and get you in contact with the writer.


  78. Sharpsburg that movie is one of favorite because of what does to the people in it and how they respond to it all including losing all in the end. I dont need no stinking badge!

  79. Last night I dreamt of finding the treasure chest that ff had hidden away. Full of gold piles and piles of gold. And then, the FED’s demanded half of the treasure for tax’s. And then, the State wanted one third of my half for tax’s. And then, a bunch of bloggers from a web site brought suit against me for one third of the remaining two thirds claiming they helped me find the treasure with their blogs. And then, I had to pay the attorney the last one third. And then, I started looking for a new treasure to find. And then, Along came Jones…………………….

  80. I have one last solve in finding the chest, and will not be able to go this year. If this solve is not the winner, then I have absolutely no idea where it could be.
    So I will hang around here and maybe pick up a few clues/ideas for plan B. if it is not found by then. That’s my story and I’m stick-in too it

  81. I hit the wrong button on the last post, tried to finish what I was saying… posted and nothing. Hmmm?
    Mark H. wondering if the nuke button isn’t being used a little too much or if it’s a glitch?

    • Why is it so difficult to stay on topic? We have a discussion page for just about everything concerning the chase. Take a look under “Searchers Discussions” on the menu……..Anything else should be on Facebook. You can chat all you want there.

      When you make a comment a notification goes out to many people. Most of those folks don’t care to hear a bunch of chit chat and they let me know very loudly and clearly.

      We even have an Odds n Ends page for non specific comments about the chase. Stay on topic please.

      • Goofy, Do we have to stay on topic on Odds and Ends? I don’t want to get in trouble and not be able to attend the Forrest Fenn “Life is Good” Party…Ok….LOL

        Lou Lee, I Love this Hunt!

        • Well Lou Lee the title of the page is “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…” so at least try to keep it about the chase. OK

          • 🙂 Ok, I will ask you a question on “Odds and Ends” Thanks so much.

            Lou Lee Belle

      • Thank you. Ive been saying stay on topic myself. But I have this tuna noodle recipe I’m dying to share. Lets see……Fenn, Fenn, oh yes. He hid a box somewhere right? Well, what do the POSTMARKS symbolize? Where I have been searching, there is a metal irrigation pipe with the companies logo embossed that looks like a POSTMARK. IMO, this means “END” or post….such as the Post Game Show after a football game..”Go Hawks”. But it tells me go no further in that direction. “There will be no paddle up your creek….paddle= ORE.

  82. Michael D. I’m SF old town resident, been searching 2+ yrs. Primarily Rio Grande Box. Retired and this Chase is my full time deal. Will sign 50/50 if I like the contractual language. Am Vietnam Vet with graduate degree. My wife and family/friends will testify to my honesty. radcrad@gmail.

  83. I have my Solve, I’m going with confidence this weekend to locate blaze.

    • Seannm,

      IMO, if you are going to go out this weekend to locate the blaze, you don’t have a solve.

      I fully believe the blaze is identified in the poem, and you will know the meaning of that before you leave the driveway.

      One more time for Goofy and the nuke button – IMO. 🙂

      Scott W

      • My solve puts me in a very close search area, the blaze is a marker and IMO it is the ninth clue. The blaze will be a natural and/or man made mark on a rock that cannot be solved or found unless you have boots on the ground.


        • Been thinking about the part about the person will go in confidence. Maybe it has some other meaning than the person will have the complete solve, but it sure seems that way. No one will stumble over it is another. That said, I still don’t believe an armchair hunter can solve it. But then Forrest said something about GE. So I don’t know.

          • mike(MT) i think an armchair person could solve the poem. comparing it to an old cold case. you read/search through all the info on the sites, study the maps. they can get pretty darn close. the final part would need BOG but they could get there just like anyone. everyone has to do the studying before they go.

          • MT,

            I’m what you may refer to as a armchair hunter, that being said: I have research every bit of information I can possibly absorb (and some has really hurt my head, too much math) in order to look at the big picture and make sense of it all. I am 90% confident in my solution the remaining 10% is that of getting my boots on the ground to discover the blaze and recover “indulgence”. Now I too like everyone else I assume has, the fear that because it seems so simple that surely someone else has come to the same solution and has wisked her away and hoped to keep it secret again, its probably what I would do. NOT!

          • GE…Google Earth or General Electric. Heavy lodes (electricity) and (watters) high. Transmission towers. Google Earth shows something different at each magnitude and I can’t see my spot at all, just a blur. Get your bedroll out people, and hit the ground running. Or……wait for the Forrest Fenn video game where you fight off virtual cave bears, armchair searchers and the IRS. Now thats scary !

        • Hey Seannm

          Same here the blaze is the 9th clue in my solve. I even have a direction and maybe a thing to look for but shouldn’t the poem tell me how many feet to walk??

        • If blaze is the last clue, and the clues are in consecutive order, what’s the point of the last 11 lines in the poem?

          • in my solve the “blaze” is clue #9 but that doesn’t mean that its the last clue in the poem. its just the potential resting spot of “indulgence”.

            “If you have been wise and found the blaze”

            “have been” past tense.


          • NotEvenClose
            There are different levels or layers in the poem. You are talking about the first blaze or waypoint. I refer to the last blaze or 4th waypoint (1T,2N,3Y 4(YI)

          • the rest of the poem give supportive ideas and hints to tie with things in book and in interviews imo

        • Like you Seannm I have the blaze being the 9th clue AND have a direction from the blaze to chest BUT not sure how many feet or if I should be seeing it from map perspective.

          • Gregg, maybe you have done as I have and that is to put the clues in the sequential order that they will appear to the searcher/chaser/fenner whatever.

            “look to the North”

            Now I’m saying too much. 🙂

  84. Lurker here- Figured I’d give a quick introduction, then a long-winded thought regurgitation. Please give me a little leeway?

    I just jumped into this in last last week or two. I’m not egotistical enough to claim that I’ve solved the poem, like Kevin (and the multitudes of others). However, I’m also not diabolical enough to pose that I know nothing.

    I live on the east coast at the ocean, and the world of forests and mountains are about as foreign to me as the moon. (Save for the fact that I grew up in NE Ohio and had a wonderful playground of woods and streams and places like the Gorge and the Portage Path to investigate and tropple around.) I’m a tech geek and a writer, so at least I have some unique talents to bring to the search. (Tropple is a word I discovered- ever watch a kitten go down wooden stairs?)

    Enough about that- AMA and I’ll tell you about me as much as you can stand.

    I’ve got a couple thoughts that I don’t mind sharing- one for the beginning and one for the end-ish clues.

    I don’t think WWWH is a specific location- it’s just a place-holder. You have to begin there, because if you don’t have a radius, you cannot narrow it down. I wracked my brain for a couple weeks trying to figure this out- literal, figurative, abstract…. just nothing seems to work. Water doesn’t halt, except when frozen (though that can be scientifically argued). Warm water never freezes- it has to go through thermal stages or to an extreme that I don’t think ff would want any of us to go through. Water only halts in a place that has no outlet.

    The other ‘clue’ that has me turning the wheels in my brain is ‘heavy loads and water high’. ff was a military man, and specifically a pilot, right? A heavy load can be a couple things to a pilot- full gas tank or big bombs. ff is a history buff as well as a fighter pilot, so it could mean big weapons (cannon ball) or an artillery range.

    • Rathmon.

      You say you just started a couple? That’s great… always good to hear new ideas.

      I agree with your assessment that frozen water can be scientifically argued. But the same can be argued for steam. All in the interpretation I guess. I also agree that WWWH may not be a single point but could be a specific location…just on a larger scale then most would like or hope [ imo ]

      I’ll throw this thought out for you or anyone else to ponder. What if WWWH is not so much a location but and event. Maybe even an event that as been happening and could still be happening in the near future? one that can still give a broad area to start.
      Anyways just a thought.

      Enjoy the ride….

    • Rathmon

      I guess you have been racking your brain about Wwwh . I never thought of that. Oh Darn 🙂

  85. Rathmon, I think you’ll find all the old timers probably agree with you that WWWH is a place holder, as are many of the other “clueish” words and phrases in the poem. Nothing is as it seems. The Place it holds will have some funny/ creative/ alliterative/ logical/ association to it, but that may be to another place-holder for yet another word or concept. And on it goes until it ALL hangs together for you and you can’t suppress a smile of confidence and can hit the dirt .
    It wasn’t meant to be easy, the thinking is the hard part, it takes a lot of imagination and interpreting and associating. BOG is the fun part.
    To my mind, you’ve got to determine the search area before you “Begin it where WWWH”. IMO of course.

  86. Each of the 4 states at play, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico all have a huge area called wwwhalt, all the respective State Game and Fish have designated places where warm water species of fish thrive and on some rivers and lakes there is an exact spot where warm waters halt, and cold water (regulations) begin. Contact the game and fish dept and look on line or ask if there is a map showing that www halt place. I know you will be surprised, when rivers flow down from their places of origin in the high, cold Rocky Mountains onto the lower elevations, most notably to the East onto the great plains, now in the myriad of Canyons which one it THE Canyon? ff said it would be hard so where is the Home of Brown? Therefore home of Brown must be in cold water area, could be a beaver, could be Molly, could be this is just another wild goose chase. but Molly lived in Leadville, Co and Canyon City is the only canyon down from there.

    To think I use to believe wwwh was Tears? Still could be both that ff is so clever!

    Tom Terrific

      • fenntreasurehunter –

        I like how you think –

        I think you are smart – but just go too far – just use Molly Brown – but not as home of Brown – she fits perfectly in the beginning of your quest. 🙂

        I haven’t posted here in awhile – and am seeing lots of newbies ! How awesome !

        From a four yr. = fourteen hour a day searcher – the beginning may not be what you first think it is. Look for punctuation.

        We are on the hunt.

        We have now become camp ground “hosts” very close to where we think the treasure is – so maybe – just maybe – at matter of time now.

        Most of all = to all who are hunting – have fun – enjoy the wonders of our wilderness to the max.

        PS -To our pretty Bird Lady – We have seen Eagles, Osprey, Ducks, Geese, Owls, King Mt. Blue Jays (just huge) and beautiful and so many birds we don’t know the names of. We have also seen two fox – a male and a female – with a den close. We have seen the main herd of Elk – well over a couple hundred strong. We have seen lots of bear scat and huge (the largest we have ever seen) bear paw prints. Everyone stay safe.

  87. I thought ff said wwwh is a specific location, and not a region or general area? Anyone else remember? There are 3 or four so called Basins near old faithful, Middle basin and Biscuit basin to name 2.

      • I thought that the water merely goes underground in a typical sink basin, and it still has an outlet somewhere, and still ends up getting to an ocean. Am I incorrect in this?

    • Musstag, I understand what you are saying about “basins” “sinks” and other holders of water, where warm waters halt is the exact words he used, not Hot water, its “warm waters”, with an s, just like a capital B on Brown, so if ff is an avid fisherman, I am sure he is aware of the various state fishing proclamations which all 4 states proclaim “WHERE WARM WATERS HALT” and cold water Regulations Begin. That is an exact place, in all 4. ff said do not change or mess with my poem..

      I admit that this could be an unusual coincidence that his exact words say that, bus statistically what other place or writing or map anywhere could you find that expression “exactly like” what he wrote?

      Tom Terrific

    • Musstag,
      That statement has been attributed to Fenn and was allegedly overheard at a book signing when he was talking to someone in the crowd. In my opinion it is really hearsay. It’s been one of those “generally accepted” pieces of information that floats around here. Regardless, it does make sense that the first clue would narrow down the search area substantially.

  88. Michael, you are correct, there are other canyons down, but only one is called “Browns Canyon” home to the famous river rafting are at Buena Vista, comes off Mt Elbert and several of the highest 14ers in the rockies. That’s the headwaters of the Arkansas River. It is only about 3 to 4 hours to the Arkansas River from Santa Fe, NM and about the distance you would need to start craving a Sandwich.

    Tom Terrific

    • TT,
      How’s that group project of yours working out? Don’t mean to pick on you, buts lets move away from the whole this water is hot Vs. cold… Yes Forrest has inspired lots of folks to go out & crash around in the wilderness for 4 yrs now, & in the hope of quick riches we’re all happy to oblige.
      In looking for the quick answer ( warm waters and canyons ), I think we overlooked his message(s)

      Right from the start IMO, Fenn throws us a curveball, WWWH might just be something we didn’t expect, I am still trying to figure this out.
      Anybody that knows what heck he is saying in his War Chapter please raise your hand. That story is like 30 pages. I get the basic events, but why did he make it so complex when all of the stories about his family are fairly simple. His latest post SB 138 brought back that painful memory, and yeah there will be a collective forehead smack.
      Heck, even Dal seems to have cooled on the Firehole river notion.

  89. Hi seekers, I have some questions. When we read Not Obsessed search we were pleased he used a stick to hunt under the juniper bush and said it wasn’t worth tearing the plant up to find TC.
    Here are some questions. What is expectable when it comes to searching? Can we damage trees or plants? Is it ok to deface rocks? What about chopping plants down in your way? Is it ok to put yourself in danger doing this like climbing down a rocky canyon wall or being chased by bears? (This is not a knock to bloggers because hikers have accidental bothered bears been chased) My question is more along the lines of you know you are doing something wrong/unsafe but its ok you know what you are doing! Do we cross fence lines or trespass or invade people’s property? What about breaking state or national park rules? Do we respect the restrictions whether we think they are over done? Are we allowed to disturbed wildlife by interring with nesting or breeding animals?
    I think there are some we would do anything to get TC. If we break laws or do damage to nature are we shaming our families, our home states, and Mr. Fenn’s legacy?

    • I only hope that searchers use good common sense when it comes to searching. IMO, f would not want any destruction of habitat. He said he tried to plan for everything, so since he is one that cares about the environment, I don’t believe he would place the chest in an environment that would require any destruction of habitat or breaking laws or rules. And I would hope that people don’t do that is their searches.
      Also wildbird… Can we back up to your comment on the wedding poem? What are you talking about? Is that from TFTW? something old something new… something borrowed something blue… I have TFTW, but haven’t finished reading it yet. Just got it last week.

      • WiseOne i didnt explain myself well. what i was trying to say is the wedding poem almost everyone knows. something old something blue … we understand what the context its used in – weddings.

        context – the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.
        second part – the parts of something written or spoken that immediately precede and follow a word or passage and clarify its meaning.

        without knowing something old…. is used in connection to wedding we wouldn’t understand the phrase.
        like in Mr. Fenn’s poem. to solve his poem we have to find what context he meant.
        its like finding an old artifact. if we don’t understand what is is & how it was used we could never understand what is really was. i hope i haven’t confused people more.

        its like the phrase tall drink of water i know the phrase because i read it in context in a book. it means a person is tall.
        i used the phrase to explain High (drink of) water remark to mean after hauling TC on two trips you would need to drink water and Fenn is tall. i might not be right but if fits. i have a solve for HW & it works but we like this one better it simpler.

        • Thank you your explanation regarding the wedding poem concept in regard to understanding f’s poem. I understand what you are getting at…”the context of the poem”. IMO it’s not easily discernible, but not impossible, so says forrest. Makes me wonder how many different contexts (I call them theories) are out there about the poem. People can interpret things very differently, as we are all finding out.

          • thanks WiseOne i can have trouble making an idea clear. i told someone in an email who also had trouble understanding.
            i quoted this Bible verse below

            Matt 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
            because of the phrase “to enter” Bible scholars have come to the the believe that an eye of a needle is a gate to Biblical style city which went put in that context it makes sense.

          • Birdlady so you think finding the chest makes a guy rich? In today’s society that chest is pennies. 1.5 million is not very much.

          • NO SILLY. i was trying to explain how the words in the poem need to be used in the right context.
            con·text ˈkäntekst/ noun
            the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.
            “the decision was taken within the context of planned cuts in spending”
            synonyms: circumstances, conditions, factors, state of affairs, situation, background, scene, setting More
            the parts of something written or spoken that immediately precede and follow a word or passage and clarify its meaning.
            “word processing is affected by the context in which words appear”

            fenn understands context. an artifact for an example: its importance and worth can not be understood until what it was/used for is put into an everyday context.

            if you did know what context an abacus was used you might confuse it with a child toy.
            we must look at the fact that forrest fenn i think is about 85 yrs old which in my case makes 25 yrs older than me. in language 25 yrs is a big difference

            my mother in law who died in 2006 at 96 would say “lets boil up some coffee” instead of lets make or brew some coffee.

            another term “deader than a doornail” a lot of people don’t understand that term out of context. if i said “poor oh george he had a heart attack and now he is deader than a doornail.” you would be able to understand he died.
            CIE context is everything

          • I believe in my opinion the poem starts off hard and then gets easy 😉

          • Amy, Maybe the first two or three clues are more difficult that the last six but I think they will all be really hard to solve Imo… Hopefully you are right and some will be easier…

          • Gold Fever- The true reward will be finding the chest before the poem drives u nuts, ha ha ha ha I’m a chestnut.

            Bird, you so silly, what else could deader than a doornail mean?

            O Please someone find chest….


          • i have used that term and some people didnt know it. the term Mr. F uses could be from a time we dont all get.

          • Lowi,

            If you watch the San Lazaro 02 video under the Gone Fishing Videos on this website.

            Forrest talks about Carrot Top Nails…

            They “Coronado” did not have room to carry horseshoes so they only carried horseshoe nails… so the nail was like a cleat…

            If you find a horseshoe with the nail still in it’s foot it was considered dead as a doornail…

            Pretty cool videos if you watch them it will explain it a lot better than I can…

          • thank spallies i grew up with that saying but we alway say a doorbell and hubby corrected me that it was doornail. i get the person is dead but why compare it to a doornail. thanks see this is what i am talking here a phrase was people get but how was it used context. now it makes even more sense. see i think uses phrases that are very old or more likely made up to fit the poem and where he wants us to go. knowing that context of how he uses words is as important as it is hard. thanks

      • ” I don’t believe he would place the chest in an environment that would require any destruction of habitat or breaking laws or rules.”

        Well then why hasn’t FF come out and said ‘you won’t have to dig or damage anything to find the treasure, it’s right out there in the open’? It gives away nothing – and prevents 30,000 people from damaging other people’s property or the environment.

        But, he didn’t say anything like that. He won’t even say it’s not buried. He seems to have only made sure people know not to damage HIS property. Everywhere north of that is fair game.

        So, if the treasure was easy to get to – and you didn’t have to damage anything – why doesn’t he just say that??? Instead of letting people go around digging up graves and stuff (although, granted, when he found out about that, he put a stop to it pretty fast)? So, why isn’t he putting a stop to ALL types of damage?

    • There’s no need for folks to trash the environment, put themselves in danger, or harass wildlife in the pursuit of this hunt. Many have done so in the past and many have found themselves in trouble with the law. Respect the outdoors or pay the consequences.

  90. All of the following is in my opinion…
    the first clue is in stanza one and the last clue is in the last stanza and refers back to stanza one in a way…
    It is quite a distance between clue one and the blaze.
    It is 24.2 miles from Clue 2 to the Home of Brown.
    It’s more than 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe…but not much more!!
    In one clue, down is South, and in another clue, down is elevation…
    You will definitely be surprised by where it is.
    It is definitely no place for the meek.
    Kids have an advantage.
    You will all say what took us so long!
    Almost every word of the poem is important.
    It is straight forward.
    Don’t mess with it…it takes you right to it!
    You will still have to search when you arrive at the location…but it shouldn’t be too difficult. That is all I can say for now except if I am wrong, I will happily dance around in y pink tutu while everyone reads this solve and swears it HAS to be right….it’s a goodun’.

      • Exactly. What is “More than” ? How do you calculate an after the fact comment and have the capability to narrow it down?

        Then would “more than 300 miles west of Toledo” mean you just eliminated NM and Colorado?

        Wouldn’t the calculating method FF described be more important than the distance he gave as an example? The comment he made was about land surveying … could the logical conclusion be hinting at a boundary or boarder area? That is what surveying is about anyways.

        Just saying.

  91. Mike D – I hope your right – end this madness now…haha
    We all need some sleep.

  92. Well, now I’m second guessing myself again . WWWH….
    What if it has nothing to do with warm waters? In true Fenn twist of words, what if he is saying begin it where cold water starts? …….

    Oh the heck with it. I’m going fishing……. 🙂

    • POG,

      I believe that warm waters are as cool or cooler than the bronze that the school kids touched… :mrgreen:

    • Warm waters get warmer, not colder when they go through a irrigation pipe like the one one the cover of TTOTC. Look close at the picture of him holding the fish. Forrest never said warm waters get cooler, only that they halt.

    • Begin Where Warm Wa(i)ters Halt= OJO CALIENTE or Begin Where Warm Waters HAULED. Remember blog 126? “He talked in a drawl” Try reading it like your from Baton Rouge.
      BE GIN = TANQUREY – “TANK ARRAY”……heavy loads of septic tanks AND water tanks, high.

  93. Was thinking about this in reference to the first stanza.

    No one ever keeps a secret so well as a child.

    Victor Hugo

  94. I wonder if people aren’t confusing themselves with the words cool, cold, Warm and hot? In terms of temperature, these are all relative terms….if something is at a temperature that is relatively higher than something else it could be warm or hot. Like the oft quoted discussion of “warm” and “cold” fisheries. Yes, there are ”warm” water fisheries (think bass) that are in the low to mid 60’s and “cold” water fisheries (think trout) that are more like in the mid 50’s. So 60 degrees is “warmer” than 50 degrees but if you were to stick your hand in either creek you would not think of either as warm waters.

    So is the bronze statue really “cold”? Actually it is in the gallery at (presumably) room temperature (72 deg?). It just feels cold because the human body senses heat transfer, rather than measuring actual temperature, and, because the bronze has high thermal conductivity and your hand is at a higher relative temperature (~98 deg), it senses the transfer to the slightly cooler statue. If you were to touch a woolen rug in the same room it would likely not feel cool although it is at the same room temperature.

    One of the many synonyms for warm is “hot”….another relative term. So perhaps it’s not too important to worry about exactly what temperature the “Waters” are….it’s all relative to some unknown reference point.

    • One of the many synonyms for warm is “hot”….another relative term. So perhaps it’s not too important to worry about exactly what temperature the “Waters” are….it’s all relative to some unknown reference point.

      Ah..but which relative? June, skippy, mom, dad?

      • Please don’t forget that game that we all played as kids…. Warm, warmer, cold, colder….hot.

        There’s an almost ‘Simon Says’ aspect to the poem.

      • Kat, there are a lot of references to Skippy. In fact, so much that I think he had his brother in mind when he did all this. I think the place is very special to he and his brother. Hopalong Cassidy and Captain Kidd all references to Skippy.

  95. Edgar, you make a good point in your comment, not unlike a synonym or an antonym, the use of www halt and cold water starts are synonymous terms and in this context (thanks Wildbirder) I think we need to look at exactly those word as ff expressed them, otherwise there is so many ways to interp. it becomes much like “Brown Trout” which are so common in the Rockies it is a useless way for us to find those exact places on a map of your search area.

    However a local State Game and fish proclamation map that states www halt gives you an exact spot to start before you go up the Canyon (Down) which will be colder and is too far too walk to find the home of Brown .

    Therefore; the home of Brown is in a cold water area, and from the home of Brown it is Wild (no place for the meek) also the Canyon Down either has an important creek feeding it that cannot be paddled up or the canyon ends (end is ever drawing nigh) stream and all. At that point Just Heavy loads and water High are in play? Right? Are you with me so far?

    So let’s say that for conversation sake, heavy loads are relative, imagine not paddling but hiking, as in the context of a nature trail where people might backpack with a heavy load up this creek on a trail to water high. Nothing will explain a heavy load like carrying 50 lb pack up a few thousand fee. Agreed?

    Now ff has said that he knows several people have been within 500 or 200 feet and he drove his car to the parking lot where he made two trips to stow the Treasure Chest. Seldom do hiking trails allow for a road past the starting point or parking lot so we must assume he did not stashed the TC near the start of such a trail, the question becomes this: is the Trail the blaze? or is the blaze something along the trail?

    I have looked at this along with the entire text which includes “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze”. “Just take the chest and go in peace”.

    Imagine all these expressions are in order of #1,2,3, and moving you closer to the exact spot, that special place.


    Tom Terrific

    • TT great thoughts! Also,with all this talk about 2 trips in 1 afternoon to hide the treasure, I remember the question, but I cannot recall if he said he went all the way to the hiding place and back or did he just make two trips to his car to fill his backpack once and then maybe he forgot something and had to go back within 5 minutes of leaving the car…thoughts on that ?

    • TT,
      I think it is a useful exercise to try and visualize what the trail of clues looks like, and I do that frequently.

      I don’t tend to buy the NM Fish/Game fisheries designations as a valid WWH. Just my opinion, therefore, that you are jumping to a conclusion that HOB is in a “cold” water (whatever that is) area.

      While we know that there are “many places where warm waters halt”, I think the one of interest with stand out for a very obvious reason.

      • Also, ff said that the average person could find it.. That being said, the average person doesn’t know the NM game and fish definition of WWH.

        • If this is true and it’s been over 5 years then I think our friend is bending average just a little.

  96. Thanks Jdiggins, I believe the load and the weight of the chest combined were too heavy to carry all at once, just my opinion, also when I stated it was not near a hiking trailhead “near” is all relative to an 80 year old with a heavy pack. probably not a hard walk and not far from his car, but 500 ft off a trail would not happen for a hiker unless he wanted to see a marvel gaze or a blaze?

    Tom Terrific

    • Agree TT, perhaps if he had another mode of transportation from his car to the hiding spot say he brought part of the load to this mode and then the rest of the load to this mode and went from there maybe on horseback, maybe in a boat, maybe with a Dinghy walking…

      • also he said he did it in one afternoon what is it it could be anything it is relative

      • Also the terrain, weather, etc etc etc…it all becomes relative when you try to determine time from a question asked and answered outside of the poem. It’s all in the poem. Hard to see, fun to look for, often discouraging and always challanging, but it’s there, in the poem. All of it.

        • Don’t try to reverse engineer his trip. If I recall right, he said used to fly over places and if he liked spots he’d see if the airport/landing strip had a rental car.

          He absolutely could have hid the TC in close proximity of a road. Therefore, in saying that someone has been within 200′ of the TC, he’s saying absolutely nothing.

          How he got there is not tantamount to how one of us has to get there.

          • Rathmon and others, what is the year of age for mandatory retirement of a commercial Pilot? My son is one so I know..

            69, normally, so what was the last year ff had a plane or could lease one? I know he proudly keeps his pilots lisc in his wallet but when did he stop flying? Just because I keep my lisc in my given profession that does not mean I am still actively/legally practicing; Law, Insurance, MD etc.

            If he said he made the two trips to the special spot from his car in the afternoon, what was his age and did he lease/borrow a plane to travel to it he’s near 80 at that time?

            It is many hours of flight to some of the places North of Santa Fe in the Rockies, so where people search and believe he loved in his younger years and still loves today is just hard for me to believe he took 42 lbs of gold and checked it thru commercial airlines or carried it through metal detectors at security in 2010? Just using reason, Did he actually own a plane in 2010?

            Now you see why I think it is close to him…just a sandwich away.

          • Tom-
            Forrest made frequent trips, in his Jeep Cherokee, to various places in the west for multiple night stays during the time he was 79-80. At that time he was on the board of the Cody Museum. He attended annual meetings there and elsewhere. I have no reason to believe he did not put the chest in his Jeep and drive to wherever he wanted, whenever he wanted, for as long as he wanted.

          • My thoughts exactly Dal. In addition, he could have easily caught a ride on a private plane with another trustee attending a meeting at the Cody Museum or at univ. of Wyoming while on the Frison board.

  97. So, there I was thinking that WWWH wasn’t very specific, but after a few days of thinking that….. I think I was errant. I threw myself into maps and research for days, but my idea of an endoheiric basin as the beginning (even thought it fit both WWWH and CD) was just too dang broad.

    Have a new idea, and certain things fit, like HOB (which, btw, means House of Blues to this poor East Coast guy), and meek, and brave….. Have yet to check to see if my idea for heavy/high fits, but hey, as we all know anything fits if we squint hard enough.

    ‘Inconceivable. You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means.’

  98. Not yet. He tried calling me today but I missed his call. Then I called him back and his phone must be having issues . 🙂
    Maybe tomorrow we can connect I will keep u up dated on Kevin 🙂

  99. Rathmon

    Remember red light green light 🙂 my favorite was red rover red rover send Forrest right over 🙂 lol

    • Kevin absolutely won’t be taking a certain bracelet back to ff.

      Not now, not ever, I say.
      He’ll wear a Tutu,
      And apologize to LuLu,
      Then admit that’s he’s……

      Fill in the blank, but I can guarantee it’s not the same word you think I am thinking.

      ‘Don’t ever snark me again’, I said….. I maybe should’ve added that you can’t win.

      But, it’s certainly fun to see you try.

  100. ‘no place for the meek’. Still looking for hints from the book to that clue. I can stretch my imanganation and come up with some hints for other clues, Hints like chasing Cody is a hint of ww halting. But I cant find one for ‘meek’ as used in the poem.
    Other than ‘rather fight than switch’ and ‘woudn’t bite a hard biscuit’, but don’t know how they fit anything. ,Any Ideas to share ?

    • i think IMO that we are the meek unless we go in confidence. he had said we have to go in confidence which means sure of oneself.if i am sure of myself i am not meek. the hard part is the hike to TC and finding it the rest is pretty easy IMHO

      • Yes that could be it , but Wow THAT opens up hundreds of more possible places

        • i wrote this before
          the end is him saying time is running out canyons get darker quicker than flat areas. no paddle is a low water crossing heavy loads at this point is you carrying TC out in two trips. and high water is fenn he is a tall drink of water and after hiking canyon ALL AFTERNOON you are hot tired and thirsty. the cold is crossing low water and worth it is the two long trips if he hiked one mile in one mile out and repeated it that four mile and if it canyon down at some point you are hiking canyon up

          now is this up in yellowstone or CO. or NM is anyones guess.

      • you lost me but it’s getting late in texas and my movie almost over and 5:00a.m. comes early

      • I was just about to say something about that slip up in wildbird’s Tareyton commercial… but you beat me to it, Musstag. 🙂

    • MUSSTAG :),

      ‘no place for the meek’. Still looking for hints from the book to that clue. I can stretch my imanganation and come up with some hints for other clues, Hints like chasing Cody is a hint of ww halting. But I cant find one for ‘meek’ as used in the poem.

      An IDEA – poem cornerstone letters
      line # 1 “A…….E”
      line # 24 “I………D”
      – 2 Share.
      For a connection to 1 possible “meek”.
      Try the TTOTC chapter ” Looking 4 Lewis & Clark”.
      Book Title “Journal of a Trapper”.
      ff mentions that he RED / Read this about 10X times or was it a dozen times.
      There is an online link to read this Journal subTitled of a 9 year Home in the Rocky Mountains. Sir T. Brown “QUOTE”

      A Link below,

      A character in the Journal is named Joe Meek, he escaped from the indians / native americans near Hegben Lake.

      This can stretch one’s imagination for a book clew, but alas it can be done.

      I make no claims that this is the only or correct use of meek that can be linked to the Book from the poem, but it may be a possibility.

      No place for the meek = # PLACE FORTH [4TH] E [EAST] MEEK.

      line # 12 letter #9 y
      line # 13 letter #9 e
      line # 14 letter #9 k

      141312, 1413 Main Street home address when ff was 12.

      🙂 The Golf Chess & Cheese Society
      🙂 Strike, Match, Spark, Blaze, Fire, Light 🙂

      • Many words I have found to be abbreviations. Down= dow.n.=due west x north. “Done it tired(re-tired) and now I’m weak (we-a.k.) We= Public Citizen…..ak meaning “also known” soooo…….though it is meek and not meak, me “ak”=No place for the forest. BUT…I lean more towards “Meek mild mannered Clark Kent” ….why? Because my spot has KYRONITE ,”Kryptonite” = Superman= Marvel (comics). Tarry scant with MARVEL gaze. / which could mean looking with different vision such as the UV flashlight. Twisted yes…..but it is 8 :00 and I still haven’t had my Peets Coffee.

        • Boy you sure are smart fenntreasurehunter ! You and that seattlesullivan guy seem to have it figured out. I bet you must know that Forrest is never going to where that at ORE wear that hat.

          • Hello, Nerd…excuse me…pardon me…I mean, Mindy. (Pushing up glasses with tape in center) Your nerdy knowlege is nowhere near needing. That being said there are, indeed, crossovers where DC characters appeared with Marvel characters and vice versa. Everything is possible in the Amalgam Universe! aka Amalgam Comics. That being said…Forrest never said anything about “amalgam gaze”. So “kryponite” is RIGHT OUT. Samsonite is more like it.


            I hope Forrest doesn’t read that and think I was taking a jab at him…because he would be way off.

    • Musstag, for me, that line gives the word that is key. Read from right to left, solving the line gives: kee me 2 of 3.
      I don’t have my other notes but have found that the word that is key is “middle”.
      I’ll check some notes and give a little better explanation when I find. I remember it has to do with 8, or ∞ . I’ll get back to you.

  101. Hi, I’m Morning Glory. First time posting!

    I’m not sure of all the rules, but I see a lot of people post and then be censored.

    Could someone share the rules so I don’t get in trouble.

    Thank You.

    • Hi Morning Glory. Welcome. Lets see….rules….hmm. I know for a fact Dal doesn’t like dirty jokes posted . And keeping to the subject seems to keep me afloat. Other than that, just remember to post recipes and chit chat on Facebook or Twitter. Now, how can we help you ? Oh yes,…we are all insane !!!

      • morning glory i have gone back and read as much of the scrapebook, blog pages and etc as i can and i type up notes. read read read. one thing if on a computer click on control key and letter f a little box will come up for the page you are on. type a keyword or short phrase it will let you know if if its on the blog. say the word blaze or meek. when reading news stories or other web pages if they don’t have a search box you can use this. very helpful. cuts down on reads a page that doesn’t have what you are looking for

    • Morning Glory,

      I’m not affiliated with the site in anyway… but the rule of thumb is simple to most. Stay on topic! There are many topic threads and they have some interesting thoughts, theories and stories. It may be a lot to read but my advice would be…try and read as much as you can. Maybe start with the “cheat sheet” at the top of the page.

      Enjoy the ride…..

    • Good morning Morning Glory, and welcome to the insanity. If you stay reasonably on topic, keep it clean, and state that it is your opinion when giving opinion you’ll do just fine.

      On Topic: We have many subscribers so when a comment is made an email notification is sent to them. Folks get upset when their email box is full of chit chat. For example this conversation should really be over on the “Odds n Ends” page. If you have any more questions for me you can ask me there or my email is

      Keep It Clean: There are lots of kids that read this blog.

      Stating It Is Your Opinion: Some folks feel very strongly about their solutions or ideas. They feel so strongly about them they state them as fact and that starts the war of words from folks that don’t agree with them. Constructive criticism is fine, actually it’s a good thing, but it is also “an opinion”. If you don’t have the chest and can prove it, your solution is an opinion regardless of how strongly you feel about it.

      Most are pretty good about saying they are paraphrasing what Fenn said when they don’t post an exact quote. This is another good example between opinion and fact. Quoting Fenn is a fact; that is what he said or wrote. But what he meant is an entirely different animal and an opinion. Some things Fenn has said are straight forward and most of us take it as fact; the chest is not in Idaho or Utah for example. But you’ll see the interpretation of much of what Fenn has said varies widely and is an opinion.

      We don’t mind answering a question; but we aren’t anyone’s research assistants. I feel it’s important to do your own research. Without doing your own research you are only cheating yourself. A fresh set of eyes may just crack the poem when viewing or hearing the source material instead of taking someone’s word for what is there.

      Have fun and good hunting.

    • Glory

      You will only be put in “Time Out ” if u misbehave here. 🙂

  102. Its been my view for awhile now that the first clue is the first sentence (also the first stanza) of the poem. If true, then folks have gotten this clue correct as well as the second clue which I think is the next sentence in the poem (first three lines of the second stanza). There has been some talk about the first stanza but not much. Is that because no one wants to reveal what they believe the clue is or is it that folks don’t think it contains the first clue? My inner bird tells me that this clue is very important and narrow downs the location. Even though FF says “begin at wwwh”, that doesn’t mean that is the first clue. Kind of like if I said “lets go to Las Vegas. We will start at the Mirage”. Oh, that sounds like fun…., but I digress. The first stanza for me is the biggest mystery, it is where I think the major clue is hidden. It is also where potential names, coordinates are hiding. The idea that it is hidden also provide an explanation of why FF said that the person who got the first clue right may not have known the significance of where they were and walked by the other clues. Any thoughts?

    • Hi Raven,

      I agree there hasn’t been much chat about the first stanza. I like how you say “lets go to Las Vegas. We will start at the Mirage” that’s exactly how I find the first stanza to read. I find the first line of the poem, paired with the last line of the poem, gives us a location (a spot on the map). Then the second line kind of works backwards from there to warm waters halt. Because you can’t just start at the spot on the map. You have to follow a set of directions to get there. So I would say the first clue is the first line of the poem paired with the last line to get the location. Begin it where wwh is where we begin the actual trek to the location. All IMO.

        • Hi decall, nope I have not changed my search area. Fenn Mtn is the starting point and I’m sticking to it. I still believe “title” is the word that is key and that he’s giving it to us. His title, his family name, Fenn. How does it pair with “As I have gone alone in there”? My War For Me chapter and a little thought. Again, all IMO.

      • As I have been a LOAN in there = BANK …And with my t -REASURES B tOLD (The t is taken from treasure) to = reassures be told = collateral= CO-LATTERAL or latitude and longitude ? This is just a thought and I haven’t incorporated it in my solve. But the bank could refer to a river bank.

      • Thanks for your reply Ramona. Taking the Vegas example a step further, if I just said “we will start at the Mirage”, you might think I meant Vegas, but I actually could have been referring to many “mirages” all around the world, such as Rancho Mirage (Palm springs), or the “mirage” in Dubai, Cairo, Gold Coast Australia, Concord, St. Louis, to name just a few. I think that example is similar to starting wwwh without being more precise about the location first. And knowing where you will end up would also help identify where to “begin”.

        I think you are on to something with the first clue and the first and last line of the poem. Something in that “circular” analysis rings true to me. Kind of like you need to know where your going to end up before you begin. Hmmm….Now the ole brain is really smokin…

    • Raven, If you want to know where to BEGIN, count letters starting with NOT FAR. Two letters . a -(B) . BUT TO FAR TO WALK. Five letters. a-b-c-d-(E) PUT IN BELOW THE HOME OF BROWN. Seven letters . a-b-c-d-e-f-(G) FROM THERE IT IS NO PLACE FOR THE MEEK . Nine letters. a-b-c-d-e-f-g-h-(I) THE END IS DRAWING EVER NIGH, THERE WILL BE NO PADDLE UP YOUR CREEK . Fourteen letters a-b-c-d-e-f-g-h-i-j-k-l-m-(N)………….BEGIN. The odds of the letters spelling BEGIN are astronomical. This leads to how I solved the starting point which if you don’t have, you might as well stay home and play canasta.

      • fenntreasure: Your word play (alone= a loan= river bank) is interesting although he letter count seems a tad arbitrary to me–particularly because you start mid sentence. Its kind of like taking the whole poem and finding words throughout. I can find the names of everyone in my family and names of loads of places in the Rockies but then what….canasta anyone?

    • Raven,

      “lets go to Las Vegas. We will start at the Mirage”…. That is a simple good example. we know that we need to get to the Mirage to start having the fun, Right? but it also tell us where the Mirage is to start.

      As FF stated “If you don’t know what WWWH mean…”

      He has also stated you need to know where to start.

      Now comes a hypothetical…Is the answer to where to start in the first stanza? Common sense says if it is before WWWH, so it should be. But is it possible that a HINT to understanding that first clue is in another part of the poem?

      Another part of the poem has been IMO skipped over just as much as the first stanza…as most feel the nine clues are in the second and third stanza, and some variations close to that. Other like 9 sentences as 9 clues. Both are fine, But what i see lacking in most that I read [ no matter how someone see the poem ] is the last two stanza as clues.

      Why is the question in the poem with his answers hardly ever consider one of the nine clues. and could it be that the answer is the the first clue or at the very least a hint of what the first clues is?

      Perplexing to say the least.

      • I submitted a reply to you Seeker but it evaporated into the universe somewhere so if it shows up and this is a repeat–please forgive. I think you asked potent questions about the last two stanzas. You astutely point out that many solves do not address those stanzas at all which may be why the chest is still sitting quietly, alone, with no one to admire its beauty. I keep thinking back to a statement I seem to remember hearing where someone says (was it FF?) something about following a recipe–you just don’t jump over some of the ingredients. Food for thought….Now we just to get the recipe down.

        • Raven,

          Yes Recipe or instruction…the correct order of the right ingredients to produce the correct outcome.

          Other than some lines or stanzas not being used to IMO their full potential. I see so many trying to narrow down everything to a single, one and only, answer…Yet I have been wondering if this method is taking away from what a poem is…

          Do the clues or hints have more than one interpretation ‘needed’ to be understood?

      • yes seeker, for me, clues are in the 1st,2nd,5th, and 6th stanzas. Coordinates. Stanzas 3 and 4 seem to instruct what to do at final spot.
        Look quick ly down. Tarry scant- left side. “no paddle up your creek”= latitude=22. Stuff like that.
        Flashlight and a s and w ich. Switch rod, 11′-12′ long.
        It would suck to find out that the chest is 12′ down something (tree stump) and you had no way to excavate. Flashlight and a switch…

  103. Where has Fenn “gone alone”in TTOTC? Mostly cemeteries and cockpits/big sky, I think.
    Does anybody think that “Just take the CHEST” does not mean the Treasure CHEST?
    Try substituting CHEST with TRUNK… which has meanings in plumbing, communications, RR’s, etc. Switch the word to PATH just to feel how it changes the whole finality thing. Chest & Peace – Chess piece? Maybe you’re on a cliff edge, or on GE, looking at a patchwork of farm fields & you see something out there that is looking ‘tired&weak”.
    Does “in the wood” mean “in a tree” or “entry”?
    Just rambling til the rain stops.

    Why is there not SUBMIT button on this Comment field?
    somethings wrong with the transmission.

    • OS he went a tree to eat pie and he hide under a wagon to watch gypsies. where are you?
      i am in tx and we are looking for gopher wood.

    • Speculating about where “in” is pure folly without following the poems linear trail. Lookup the definition of in (in the wood) is not a cave but knowing Fenn this wood maybe scant which means even legally he could hardly get by with the definition but what the heck I’m just a playa oh yeah IMO but then again petrified wood in a cave might qualify too.

    • OS,

      Why can’t your examples be some or all those meanings?
      “In the wood”… Wood is a word used for Petrified Wood. In the wood is a term for being in the saddle or on horseback. Could In the wood being a saddle be twisted slightly and mean the saddle of a Mountain Pass…?

      In the wood, could be interpreted to be a coffin or a burial ceremony…and there are others. But why our we trying so hard to narrow down one? Maybe just maybe… most are needed.

      Just a thought.

    • OS – Just for the sake of discussion. Do you really think Forrest would put his chest in a dead tree trunk. What happens when the wood rots? Doesn’t seem like the most secure thing.

  104. Thank you everybody!
    I understand, stay on topic. Keep it clean, and be nice?

    On topic seems hard, I’m not sure what the topic is. I understand it to be about the 9 clues, but aren’t sure what those are? Does anyone else?

    I’d like to think it is in the first line, “…. in there alone.” This is where the chest is. But there are so many places Mr. Fenn tells us about?

    Has anyone ever made a list of all the places in TTOTC?

    Maybe it is one of these places like the fire hole that warm waters halt.

    I like Yellowstone, and Cody.

    • MG if its a out fire hole no one has figured the blaze out.. it is a good spot and beautiful just to visit. we are taking a vacation to NM in Aug to see hubby’s childhood home, to bird watch and i might get to go the rockhound. somewhere in all that we hope to check our two remaining solves and if two one does not pump up some we will only have one.

    • Are there 9 sentences that make up the poem? I didn’t pay much attention in English class during school. My punctuation isn’t the best, but I see 9 total sentences. 9 clues.

  105. Has anyone else word counted … Why are there 42 four letter words in the poem? It must be significant.

    • Could be the number 424 means something. If you have copies of the two books look into the 3×300 numbers. I believe in TFTW the pages would be 101, 161, 123 and in TTOTC it’s found 3 times as well in ‘My war for me’ does it mean 900?

    • There are a number of 42 that are in the poem… Another is 42 count from A in AS to T in treasure. Now what do you do with it ?

  106. An idea for WWWH that might be a bit off the wall… a search showed no discussion of this:

    Could it be referring to a place where a warm spring goes underground to become a subterranean stream?

    – joan

    • Joan, Sinks Canyon in the Wind Rivers is a favorite place of mine and has been discussed some here. The Popo Agie River disappears into a cavern. A really interesting place.

      The Winds are beautiful and also have many glaciers, and high mountain lakes. I keep wanting the treasure to be there but after having been there many times I can’t come up with a complete solution……yet.

    • I agree with Goofy on Sinks Canyon. Very interesting place. There are lots of connections to that area, Amelia Earhart, Hemingway, hats, forks, native history and others I’ll leave under my hat. I don’t know if we will make it there this year. If not I may just take off my hat and let it all fly (here of course) for any one to use as they may.

    • Not sure what guy you speak of. No I’m not even close, maybe sometime in the next millennia if I live that long. I’d like to think I know. I’m no Kevin P. Cheers!

  107. Yes seeker, I meant all of the alternatives but I didn’t think I had to say them all since they have all been mentioned multiple times already. I give people credit for having brains, the book, and a dictionary and using them. I don’t think I need to blurt every random possibility. I said the one (in tree/entry) which was a phonetic switch rather than a pictorial example or slang expression. I had not seen it before on the blog but I may have missed it. I tend not to beat dead horses.

  108. OS,
    Part of your comment: “…Does “in the wood” mean “in a tree” or “entry”?
    Just rambling til the rain stops.”

    Apologies, I misunderstood your comment as you were looking for a discussion on possibilities and thoughts. I should have realized you were just waiting of the rain to stop…

    My Bad. Hope your horse is doing fine.

  109. Loved it End. Full of originality, creative connections, and humor. Maybe someday I’ll get to that vista, its interested me for 3 years now. Thanks for putting it out there. You truly epitomize that indecision is the key to flexibility. Keep it loose, its a good way to live. OS

  110. Oy. No need to apologize. I am sure no offense was meant and none was taken. Unless you are somehow offended and expecting an apology? let me know. We can take it to the odds & ends channel if you need reassurance.

  111. Eye-yi-yi … Read it again. I didn’t say I though he put the treasure in a tree stump. But if I had, I could be considering the champion pinus aristatas that grow in NM & CO…. they LIVE (are not petrified) for thousands of years. We have one here in the Sierras that is over 5000 years old. Heck, I think junipers also have clocked in at over a thousand years. And Aspens are long lived as clonal families with roots that are a thousand years old.

  112. Hi Dal, with all of the recent discussions about “in the wood” could we please have a place to dive into this deeper? Something like your “tarry scant” discussion.
    Thanks for all that you do!!!!!!

  113. Yes, I’m back. Eatin’ crow and coughing feathers. : )
    I guess God does have a sense of humor. He’s either testing my patience or making me more humble but probably both.
    So, unless Forrest moved the TC (most definitely not) or someone has already found it (unlikely), then the location I had pin-pointed was wrong. Even though it met every hint to the T (including the last and most important clue as Forrest has conveyed), there can obviously be more than one solution.
    For example, if Forrest said the TC is across the street in a Chevy truck in a parking lot and you go check the only Chevy truck in the parking lot and it’s not there, it doesn’t mean he’s lying or you did all the work required. Did you check behind the building in the rest of the parking lot? And did you check all the parking lots across the street in all directions?
    Anyhow, as I promised myself, if for whatever reason I came back without the TC, I would give my reading on one of the clues. I’m not saying it is the correct interpretation. I’m just saying it’s the way I read it and it’s a different way than I’ve heard anyone on this Blog say it. Maybe someone will see some benefit with it or perhaps they will see how tricky Forrest is in his writing. In either case…
    “And take it in the canyon down,” I don’t read that as him saying to go down into the canyon. I read that as him saying to ‘take it in’, to look at it. I think he says it that way to both send most people in the complete wrong direction and to use the canyon as a reference point. If you can’t ‘take in the canyon (down there)’ or you can’t see a canyon from where you are standing, then you’re not in the right place.
    This is just the way I read it. Hopefully someone can get some benefit out of it.
    Until later,
    Crow eatin’ Kevin P is checking out.

    • Kevin,

      Glad you came back and checked in. Had you not, I would have always wondered if you made it out alive. 🙂

      No need to “check-out”. Please stay around and share ideas. It’s kind of fun.

      Wish you had found the chest.

      Scott W.

    • Kevin P,
      Good job, sir! It is a tough pill to swallow to admit you were wrong when you knew you were right. It has happened to the many. When you are done eating crow, spit out the last feather and try, try again. We applaude your ambition .

    • You can check out anytime you like,
      But you can never leave

      Kevin, thanks for manning up and ordering the triple crow burger. Now suck it up, dust yourself off, and figure out where that chest is.

      • OFF TOPIC: For those that are subscribed to this page and keep getting a notification of the above comment by me, there’s nothing wrong with subscriptions; I’m trying to recreate a problem some are having making comments. Which I think I have done, now I have to figure out how to fix it…….Sorry for all the extra notices.

    • Welcome back Kevin,
      It is the Fennien effect that takes over one’s mind and allows them to have a false sense of success. A searcher must fail first and learn in order to figure out the clues. The poem is very difficult and the searcher must learn to think like Fenn and not themselves. Once they are able to throw away their ego, they become dangerous.
      If you really want to know how strong your solution is, provide it to the blogs and ask for a critical review and I am confident others will find where you went wrong. Otherwise there is a temptation to be sucked into a gyre and return to the same place over and over without success.
      I applaud your bravado to come forward and eat crow. Many either run away never to be heard again or remain in blind denial. IMO

    • Kevin since we get to go look in aug how best is the crow serve up? i was thinking a stew myself hubby thinks just fried like chicken is best. are you going to post your solve or tried it again later? glad you stayed safe and we hope you had some fun

      • A little lemon and pepper 🙂 Speaking of crows there pretty smart, I don’t think anybody gonna be frying them up.

        • Off topic i just saw a blue jay fly across our yard chased by a sharp shined hawk or a cooper’s hawk. the BJ dropped something kind of white in yard and hawk landed on it and flew off. bye bye snake. that was neat.

          may i ask where you are searching? and are you going to get to go anything soon?
          hubby’s surgery is on thursday will let you guys know how it goes

      • Marie,
        I’m not necessarily looking there, but it is a decent area with some interesting landmarks. 🙂

        • cool i just thought the peak had an interesting name. i cant remember when are you going to search.

      • This article was published Saturday, May 16, 2015 and updated on the 17th.

        The article has A playlist of 11 videos.

        Here’s a Quote from Article: (about TC being wet)

        And avid searchers detail his every word. In one recent video interview, Fenn described the treasure as being “wet” and many assumed it was hidden in a river or waterfall, and that was new information.
        It wasn’t.
        “How can anything be in the Rocky Mountains and not be wet,” he said. “Even if it were buried six feet deep, it would still be wet. That’s not a real clue.”

        • That was a fun write up. and now it seems the chest is just wet by Mother nature and not submerged. Oh! and The windows on my car or only slightly tinted. I wasn’t even in NM that day!!

          Thanks SamSam

          • Are you sure? I thought for sure I saw you there but maybe I was mistaken. It’s pretty hard for me to see out of my tinted windows

      • Thanx. Already read the article. Wasn’t my intention to make the paper. Anyhow, I’m down but not out. Only have to re-group. I lost the battle but not the war. And for all you Terminator fans, “I’ll be back.”

  114. Yes Kevin welcome to the club. Lol.
    I sure hope you are not suffering from disappointment. I called u a energized searcher. 🙂
    And take it in the canyon down, I will hope to go in the right direction this time.,that line says to leave the area where u begin.
    Not far but too far to walk of course means drive to me. Anyway …… All we can do is our best. 🙂

    • Ground control to major Amy whens lift off? Are you still counting weeks or are you now down to days?

      Ground control to major Tom…
      Take your protein pills and put your helmet on
      (Ten) Ground control (Nine) to major Tom (Eight)
      (Seven, six) Commencing countdown (Five), engines on (Four)
      (Three, two) Check ignition (One) and may gods (Lift off) love be with you.


  115. Kevin, I hope you put your Solve on this blog (OTHERS ADVENTURES) along with all the other unsolved Solves. Its the unique line of thinking that makes each person so interesting, & our humility land-fill will be a treasure for future archiologists to know us better. Better luck next time, dont give up.

  116. Hello Everyone
    It is my first time to post here,though it has been a year since I occasionally check the blog..I once wrote Dal as well..I also commented few times in two TH blogs over the past year…though I am one of those guys who claimed to have found the solve:-) ,in my case I decided to remain silent as there is no point in saying so unless I have boots on the ground…unfortunately I am in a different continent and cannot come to USA soon,,,and collaborating from distance has its difficulty though I even tried to contact some antique dealers in NM but nobody responded:-) ..inanycase,,I personally believe it is in NM..FF is an extremly clever fellow,,and the poem is indeed a mystery to solve..good luck,,

    Tintin Treasure

  117. Hi i think he use canoe when he hide treasure (Not far, but too far to walk).
    As start Grand lake west portal east side lake south from Alva B. Adams tunnel (And take it in the canyon down) and go litle river over Adams Falls, the next east inlet falls (There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
    Just heavy loads and water high). Or another river ho know.
    Sorry my bad english.

    • Yeah Mark me thinks so too. A few 9 Clues ago I posted a partial solve (IMO) beginning with snow which would eventually end up in the Gulf Of Mexico. Not too many comments though. Still could be a thing though. Good luck to you, Pete.

  118. This coming week I try again on another search I won’t claim that its there but I’m hopefull this is a wonderful place I searched it over a year ago and pretty sure I was close been putting off going had alot of things happen this year family wise but it’s time

  119. Ok, I’ll share in the hopes of getting a conversation going. I believe this is clue 1.

    1. If Mr. Fenn quotes T.S. Eliot

    “We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.” – T. S. Eliot,

    2. We are all trying to decide where to begin.

    3. If the first decision to make is which state (because he already told us in the Rocky Mountains) when narrowing this down,

    4. Why not start where he tells us the state? And the poem would then end at the line “Just take the chest and go in peace”.

    So why is it that I must go= So wy is it! = southern Wyoming is it!

    I believe this will help find the starting point…not where the chest is actually setting. Anyone want to talk about it?

    • I’ve always thought the T.S. Eliot quote is significant in how to solve the poem. My thought being that where you begin the search is the same place where you end it. But thus far I’ve never figured out a workable solve with that reasoning.

      • Possible, however, FF answered in the negative when a searcher asked if following the poem would lead to “switching back” or “making a loop”. Source: Moby Dickens video

    • Hey Kat,actually, So why is it= So w 2 y is it. That’s wy is it.:).
      Since i’m going soon, here’s the alpha/numerics for you and alall. All from the poem… A=7,B=2,C=3,D=1,E=3,F=1,G=3,H=2,I=3,J=1,K=3,L=1,M=3,N=2,O=3,P=1,Q=3,R=1,S=3,T=2,U=7,V=1,W=7,X=9,Y=7,Z=1.
      Add it all up = 80. Forrest Fenn = 14 8 = pages in the book.
      There is alot of support info, too much to get into know, but one thing you’ll notice. If you take all the values and move forward and back that many places, the two letters you then get are equal to each other. Example, A=7, so, 7 places back gives you T, 7 places forward gives you H. T and H equal each other. So, A=7 so T=H=2. B=2 so Z=D=1. Etc……These secondary values add up to 57.
      So, WY is IT, right/… W=7,Y=7 = 77 OR 14 OR 5. I=3,T=2, OR 5. So, WY = IT. 🙂
      Since WY is IT, Then , with the mirror theme MY IT= MY WY. This then could be : M=3,Y=7,W=7, OR 3-7-77.
      Research 3-7-77.:)
      Everybodies WY may be Wyoming, but Forrest’s WY is in Montana.:)
      Last, environmentalists to some degree. Add up environmentalists to. You’ll get the Latitude degree. Of course, the word “to” will equal 2, not 5.
      If you want to check it, use Forrest’s name. Forrest Fenn. Put in the letter values and read from right to left.
      nn eft etc.etc.etc…
      So much more, but you get the basics…

  120. I have a solve that puts me in southern WY as well, but it is because WWWH took me there.

    Then again, WWWH takes me to a lot of places. 🙂

    Scott W.

    • Q1werty2

      Saw it in my email… I think southern WY is a good place for a WWWH. Good luck to you.

  121. OFF TOPIC
    hi folks hubby will have surgery on thursday but i don’t have a time . they plan to keep him overnight. he said to say thanks for all the warm wishes and concern thanks from me.

    • Best wishes to your husband with his coming surgery, and to you too Marie! Sending healing thoughts your way. Hope he makes a quick recovery so you can go on your search. 🙂

  122. What if “if you are brave and in the wood” is a thought that relates somehow to the first clue, sort of like an affirmation of say www halt, or riches new and old, after all the final words rhyme with “riches new and old”, sounds like “title to the gold” right? Are you with me so far?

    I know that the first national Vietnam Memorial, which is in Angel Fire, NM has a designated grove of trees planted called “the woods” and it was planted in a special area on the east side facing Aqua Fria Peak, and the Angel Fire Airport Runway. At that place there are about 50 bricks with the names of soldiers, sailors and aviators who were decorated for “Bravery in Combat” along that pathway to this grove of trees, the sign there says something to that effect, does anyone have the exact quote inscribed along the pathway?

    Somehow I am coming up with two meanings for wwwhalt, ff spent so much time on this poem and invested a tremendous collection for us to find, it is only fitting that the message in this poem is a deep one, perhaps obscure, but profound, he even says he wrote his memoirs with profundity….????

    So if the TS Elliot quote has any hint or clue to this solve it seems to lie within the poem’s boundaries of imagination.


    • PS Thanks to Sam Sam for the insight from a comment Sam made above..

      Tom T

    • TT,

      As much as I agree that sections of the poem [ even though not in the same stanza ] Could / should be used with each other, as your example shows.

      It comes to mind that there was a Q&A regarding ” the message ”
      and If memory serves me correct… The poem holds no message.
      I’ll go back to try and locate it, but I’m pretty sure it was asked.

      Also you stated: “Somehow I am coming up with two meanings for wwwhalt…”

      In my interpretations WWWH as many meanings… right, wrong or indifferent, I think many meanings of each clue may need to be use to understand a the clue as one. Just as long as the lock together throughout the poem. but that’s just me.

      Fenn did say there are any WWWH in the Rockies…maybe they all are one in the same…in meaning.

      • TT,

        Hopes this helps. I knew I read it before….

        ClueOther than the poem describing how to locate the Trove and one of its purposes to encourage people to get out of the house and away from electronics, is the poem designed to convey a deeper significance? Is there a subtle message you are sharing with the reader and hope they realize? ~ Seeker


        No Seeker,
        The poem is straight forward with no subterfuge in sight. Someone in an email asked me if I didn’t know where the treasure was, and could have the answer to any clue in the poem, which would I choose. I think that question is so funny and it makes me wonder how Jenny’s readers might answer it.f

    • Tom check your email. I’ll be sending you something shortly. Tom is stil terrific but deflate gate brought him down a notch.

    • Hi Tom

      I think that could be likely as both lines use in. Definite possible correlation.

      As I have gone alone in there
      If you are brave and in the wood

      • Also someone somewhere mentioned old growth vs new growth could be “new and old”

  123. Cat, Now that is what I am talkin about. Just use some imagination and a little thing called a Rhyme, which is a common metaphorical expression in childrens nursery rhymes. You kids might be able to find this before you do..??

    Tom Terrific

    • Also someone somewhere mentioned old growth vs new growth could be “new and old” any thoughts?

  124. I am asking a couple of questions of pilots on this blog… What is the runway number/direction at the Stephenville, Newfoundland airport? Wiki doesn’t say. I realize a line can be drawn point-to-point, but matching runway number’s w/Pope Field would be a powerful irony. (pg 96 TTOTC) Also, could Fenn’s flight log state the field name or the town name? Thanks, and any additional input on this is welcome.

    • …IMHO, the irony is it didn’t happen/ couldn’t have.
      Look up the range of the Shooting Star, then compare it to the distance. Not enough fuel, I am no pilot. Read all of the info from ‘The 85th Fighter Interceptor Squadron’ link from Fenn’s orig webpage.
      The Fifty thousand ft.anomaly may have occurred, except Fenn borrowed that tale from one of his cohorts. Again, IMO

    • I’m not a pilot but from my understanding if you use GoogleEarth and look at the runway it says it on the end of the run way. IMO

      • Correct. Example – one end might say 22. That means 220 degrees, That means the other end of the same runway should say 4 meaning 40 degrees.

        • Thanks. good info. I know the #s are on the ends of the runways, Pope’s runway is stated in Wiki but I cant read Stephenville’s on my GE. I’m thinking there is a hint here because of the “13 years earlier, on the 13th of July, which happens to be a Friday the 13th. I made my first comments on this on ‘Tips From Forrest’ , (under Most Important Info) on May 19, but got no responses. You might want to look at it and see where Im going. I think it might be useful.

          • OH yeh, in ’56 the field had a different name…. ie……… its deliberate, so either a hint or a red herring.

        • Just to also let you know that the numbers at the end of the runways sometimes change due to its based off of true north and the magnetic poles change.

          • Thanks, my notes say Popes runway is 221-41, and when I rechecked today, it said 231-51. How coincidental. I dont know if I copied wrong or somebody ‘fixed’ Wiki… anyhow, from the flight path, look right, block-out Philly and note the long view thru KS to CO.
            9Clues cinched it for me … the ride is fake, so the story is either a red herring or a hint.

          • OS – not sure what those numbers are you just posted. I suspect you are or tried to project his flight path which to me is not the point. I was pointing out that runway 27 would be 270 degrees west.

          • Fenn will never give you the whole onion, it peels in layers my friend 😉

          • This might be a way of triangulating the chest so (I) stand at a point or this might be using GE so between 230-270 is the chest.

    • OS – line idea probably makes sense in a coded context. The interesting thing is the Carolina Dr. nearby airport given fact that he then flys to N. Carolina. Not forget Blue Ridge mountans are nearby as well. Somethin to chew on

        • OS – probably because you don’t have a point of reference. Brave and in the wood – line 23

        • its 231-51, if you drop the last digit its 23-5. If you think those numbers are important to the Chase, work it. I think the long view, the latitude, across Philly is important. When I first started working the story, I found the dates curious, then the name of the Stevenvill airport in 1956 was different, and the inconsistancies accrued… but what I learned is about is Fenns technique, how the ‘mundane facts’ of the story are disguised by the emotional elements, the mysticism, altruism and philosophy. In post-grad work I hope to learn how to match them to the poem’s skeleton bones. IMO

  125. when i see Forrest repeat ideas i pay closer attention because i think its more likely to be a hint

    on the (somewhat) recent comment .. “i know the treasure is wet”

    was a repeat of a similar idea when he said “it’s probably already wet”

    if its a hint, then imo it would be important to look at the precise wording used

    it may be necessary to already know the clue to recognize the hint

  126. I’ll weigh in with 1. wwwh, 2. too far to walk, 3. home of brown, 4. no place for the meek, 5. the end, 6. water high, 7. the blaze, 8. to cease and 9. tarry scant. But I really never thought about it until now, so take that with a grain of salt.

    • Bart,

      I’m not picking on you personally, so don’t take my comment that way. But your set of clues is very similar to many in the chase. So what would you say to… Could all the clues, no matter what they are be many places making up a single object?

      Regardless of size, 1 mile, 500′, 20’… Maybe what we all search for is not many place to travel too, but one place made up of them.

      Just another thought.

  127. @JC1117, did you receive my email with domain name instructions? I’m waiting on you in order to transfer them to your account. Your foundation is a terrific idea but will remain so unless you act upon it.

    • Hello, Anna. I thought you might have seen my reply to you earlier…about not getting your email. My email is glass1117 at comcast dot net. Of course, you know how to type that as a real email address. You can also post your email address here and I’ll reply to you with a email address that I use more frequently. Maybe there’s a problem with that glass1117 address. There’s no spam folder set up so I don’t know what the problem might be.

      • Right JC I saw it and have already responded twice. It was typed and formatted correctly and did not bounce back. Im guessing something is wrong with your email. As this was your idea and I accommodated to be helpful, it would be appropriate for you to provide a useable email, or make arrangements with Forrest to forward the domain information to him. Are you working with Forrest to set up this foundation for him? He must be elated by your generous spirit JC, You should get it done 😉

        I don’t think we should be clogging up Dal’s blog with this off topic conversation any longer. (note: I will not list my email publicly)

  128. Pardon the lengthy comment, just thought I would copy &paste the whole thing ” High Flight

    by Roger Pile


    After reading Forrest’s tale of the T-33 flight at 50,000 ft (see Fenn’s article “My War”), was tempted to write this about when Jim Metz and I got one that high on a trip from Kelly to Yuma on return from a parts pick-up while on rocket deployment.

    Had filed VFR on top and the thunderstorms around Marfa , Texas were so high we had to keep climbing to stay above them. Remember the updrafts helping to push us higher as we skimmed their tops. After hitting 47,000 , we wondered if we could get to 50, so kept going.

    Had to turn off the flight control boost and turn on the pressure oxygen as we were at 37,000′ cockpit altitude and getting the bends in our wrists. Finally, Jim (in the front seat) said we had made it, but told him my altimeter only read 49,100, so he kept it it until mine read 50 and his read 51,100′!

    We were really on a bubble: lift the nose and we would stall as our indicated airspeed was barely over 120 kts.; lower the nose and we would exceed the limiting mach. After passing Gila Bend and reporting our altitude as 50,000, the controller asked if we had said 15,000′, and was surprised when we confirmed 50,000, and he replied “we were really getting up there.”

    Letting down was another story. Pulled the throttle back to the stop and it only went down to 93%, so we had to descend rather slowly. Told Jim we should try for a 4 hour flight, but our butts were too sore, so we gave up that idea. Had to turn on the windshield de-ice so we could see out. Good thing the desert air was dry and it cleared without incident. Pull out my flight records to check the exact date and flight time. It was August 14, 1957 . The bird was new (a ’56 model) and shiny, probably the only reason we made it so high.

    I’ve told the story “a few times”, that’s why the details still stick out, even after 50 years.

    Roger “

  129. OFF TOPIC hubby’s two hr surgery went four. more damage than MRI showed. home resting. me who needs to hike to be ready to search for TC in aug just help someone recovering from surgery for a couple of weeks. i am dead tired thank you all for prayers.
    new folks hubby fell torn up shoulder 3 large tears to rotator cuff & 1 small tear. ruptured bicep tendon, and damage to collar bone.
    i has a question but i can’t think of it those looking now be careful and have fun

Comments are closed.