The Nine Clues…….Part Fifty

yellow

This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

776 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…….Part Fifty

    • I’ll give credit where credit is due.. Taylor Clark did his homework. I expected another interview attempting to drum answers to clues for the sale of a newspaper or magazine.

      This write up was more like the old time investigating reporting of a news story and not the gossip type opinionated news we hear today.

      All in all, a great write up.

      • Hello, Seeker. I thought it was a great story, also. There was some real reporting there…and best of all Taylor didn’t come to the illogical, wussy-ass conclusion…like some pathetic reporter(s)…that everything may turn out to be hoax after all. ???!

        I want to shake Taylor’s hand…and maybe nibble on his shin. On second thought, I’ll let Forrest’s pup do that. 🙂

        On third thought…with some Sweet Baby Ray’s sauce…or perhaps some KC Masterpiece…(deep thinking with creepy grin)…and some fava beans… 🙂

        “It puts the BBQ sauce on it’s skin”. (LOL! Okay, I’ll stop.)

        Great photos, too, Jesse …because the real, true Treasure is in New Mexico…and some of those pictures were pretty close to where I’m looking.

        • Hi JC117. You’re a funny kind of guy. You always make me smile / laugh. Thanks. 🙂

          I enjoyed the article also. I especially liked the part where forrest takes him to the bathroom and asks if he wants to take his pants down… :0

          So, when’s your next NM trip?

          • Hello, WiseOne. I’m hoping to make it to NM sometime in August. There’s a small chance I’ll go there before that, but I have work for a few weeks and then spend 3 days in the High Uintas with my mom and siblings shortly thereafter. I also have one other thing that I’m sort of waiting for, but everything seems to be moving along ahead of schedule…it’s a work thing I have to work around. It would take a long time to explain. I’m also pondering whether or not to have new spark plugs and coils put in my truck before a long trip like that. The last time I went I had a little bit of engine trouble. Oh, well…I’ll take engine trouble over horse trouble any day of the week. 🙂

          • Jc1117 have you an idea of when you will be searching in aug. and where will you be seaching? we might meet up for coffe or lunch?

    • What a well done article! It is obvious that Taylor Clark did his research before the interview and wrote a wonderful piece after his visit. I think he painted a very sensitive portrait of Forrest and gave the reader a wonderful peak into the this fascinating man. Great job T.Clark and the photos are great too. Thanks for sharing it Dal.

      • Awesome article. Finally someone who cared to do some homework.

        “When somebody finds that treasure chest, everybody’s going to say, ‘My God! Why didn’t I think of that?”

        Something or all the Rubik’s Cube spinners to think about. Doesn’t sound so random to me…

    • What a nice well written article and what great pictures! Thanks for posting that Dal – I enjoyed reading it. Forrest must have really liked Taylor Clark to have allowed him to have a sip of that brandy and speak so openly with him. It was interesting to see some different responses to some of the same questions Forrest gets all the time and it was good to see that Taylor interviewed some of the other people involved in one way or another with the treasure like Doug Preston and a treasure hunter.

    • It looks like Fenn traded his Alligators in for attack Poodles. 😆

      Apparently it’s just me; I found the article, while well written and entertaining, to be focused a little too much on the dark/negative side.

      Like I said, maybe it’s just me……or getting bit by a Poodle put him in a sour mood. 🙂

    • Thanks for sharing this article in advance. The pics are great ! The writer has a knack for feeling his questions, while painting a very clear picture with his words. Clearly, Forrest was in his element and made Taylor’s job that much more enjoyable. I find Forrest’s dedication to the Chase very telling. For me it is an insight as to his intentions and side story involving the who what when where and why…thanks again Dal !!

    • It’s probably under his couch all the while we’ve been running around trees and worrying about Grizzlies. LOL

        • Notice the middle cushion is turned backwards! What’s with this “middle” stuff?

          • bw, I noticed that too. Middle would be the cleft of the ‘Browch’ pointing to the back wall where the secret barrel vaulted rock arch leads to the hidey hole 🙂 and lots of cache.

          • Backwards cushion? Wow you have excellent eyesight! Fun to imagine why that might be.

            He’s a middle child like myself. I think he has said he wishes he was in the middle again. I get that idea…

            I’ll have to make the most with my siblings this weekend!

            Always learning from our time with Forrest. He has had a huge positive influence on my life. Made me take inventory and ask what’s next?

          • Interesting observation. There’s also a can of bear spray on his desk. Coincidence?

          • I was having so much fun looking at Mr. Fenn’s library, desk, and collection that I almost missed him sitting in his wing back chair. There is so much to see, wow! The bear spray works when the poodle bite fails. just kidding.

        • I’m jesting for fun but yes the brown couch. I’d like it if he tricked us like that…because it’s consistent with his Coyote nature.

          I also like the idea of the hide with yellow and red paint as being the blaze because it’s featured in so many of Forrest’s head shots.

          • aye 23kachinas, we think a bit alike. The sunburst design on the ‘hide’ is also indicative of treasure in some ancient indiginous cultures. I’ve thought long and hard about what may constitute blazes at the final ‘look quickly down.’ In the end, the eyes/phi/circle with dot/figure8/oo is what I’ll look for, and perhaps around 18 inches up from the ground where a kid would see it first on a rock. Remember that was ff’s “good fortune” to stop 18 inches from the ground in his parachute. Who knows, next trip out we will again look carefully at eve ry thing.

    • Another piece of info from the article.

      I had no idea Fenn had published his phone number in early additions of the book, as I have a later print.

      This information, which is new to me, is forcing me to reevaluate my current search area. I have to ask myself why one would publish a personal phone number in a book?

      The first thought that came to mind is that he never intended for the book to gain the attention it did. With that line of thinking, the book must have been published for the locals, and the locals alone. If that is the case, then “the mountains north of Santa Fe” suddenly take on a whole new meaning for me; possibly.

      If written for the locals, would Fenn have hidden the chest beyond the reach of the majority? I know I wouldn’t, as that would leave the chest only to those who could afford to make the journey. If written for the locals, shouldn’t it be within an easy drive from Santa Fe?

      With the book now global it makes sense that Fenn would intentionally broaden the scope of the search area to protect the chances of the people he actually wrote the book for.

      All of the above is not really even an opinion. Just thoughts and questions that I must mull over a bit longer

      This really hurts, as my solve seems so solid. It’s just that my solve does not put me in New Mexico or even Colorado.

      Scott W.

      • @Scott W. or q1werty2 or anyone: Ever wonder how there is hardly any to no mention of Colorado in the books? CO has been #4 on my list of possible locals but I sometimes wonder…..Also, Why does the poem read look ‘quickly’ down? Why not slowly or some other word? What type of poem is it too? I’ve been reading up on poetry….

        • Cholly,

          You asked, “Why does the poem read look ‘quickly’ down?”. I started writing an explanation of what I think this is, but every example I wrote seemed to me to close to what I think that whole sentence means and I just don’t want to give that part of my solve away yet.

          IMO, “look quickly down” is a huge part of solving this part of the poem. If you have been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down your quest to cease – gives me the name of a particular geographic feature which is located on the map. The cool thing is that there is no other place I can find with this name. I did not search the map looking for a fit; I came up with the name from the poem and then went looking for it on the map. To my surprise, it is very near my WWWH.

          With that said, I’m starting to think that the book may have initially been written for the people of Santa Fe. If this is the case, then my entire solve is invalid because it is not within reasonable economic reach of the average person living in New Mexico. It’s just too far away.

          However, I will still go look in my spot very soon. If it is not there then my focus will shift entirely to New Mexico and Colorado – places that are accessible via an easy drive during a family week-end trip.

          You asked what kind of poem it is. I’m sure there are some poets here who could answer this much better than I, so I will leave it to them. For me, it is the type that has consumed every waking moment and filled my dreams. 🙂

          Scott W.

          • @Scott W. Thanks for your (IMO) on ‘quickly’ down, understand your need for secrecy at this point in time….I’m hoping there are some English Lit. majors here to enlighten me as to what type of poem! I’ve come up with possibilities of Visual Poem and Free Verse with Imagery. As I read the poem I get a lot of visual and imagery. Not that it matters! lol! Another thought: What if hoB is ‘mythical’ and is something that doesn’t really exist? IMO Anyhow, I wouldn’t give up on your solve just because of a phone number in the first editions. There probably is a ‘hot line’ number in the TC, lol! I can see it now, a red phone by ff bed that never rings until one day…lol I’ve wanted the solve to be NM since before I got a hold of the books, there’s enough tourist visiting YNP already. But, something about the sound of Gallaltin and Madison sure sound alluring.

          • hey scott i wish you luck, be safe and dont try NM untill AFTER mid aug PLEASE?????? LOL

          • Scott,
            Just thinking off the wall here… What if we’ve been thinking of “blaze” wrong all this time? Everyone wants to find the blaze and think its the end of the trail…

            What if.
            … “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
            Look quickly down, your quest to cease,” actually means that “If you’ve been wise and found the path, look quickly down and follow it to the treasure” and later clues tell you where to look such as “cold” and “in the wood”

          • Hi JB. This goes well with my line of thought, as well. I agree. Look down, follow the path. I also agree that the last two stanzas hold the final clues to the hide spot. I thought I knew the cold, but alas, merely literal, and merely once defined. What else could cold be, before in the wood?

          • I agree with NM! After almost 4 yrs of studying and several dozen searches, I woke up and put 2 & 2 together on several clues.
            I used to comment here frequently, but realized I was “whispering” too much per F, so stopped.
            Remember…most of the places (in poem) were there when he was a kid, but some of the clues weren’t. It doesnt necessarily mean YS, every summer they traveled thru NM, CO, WY, & MT! His fav spot is prob along that route…hum…looks like Im saying too much again!
            Ok, you Mavericks, go get it! See you in the chase thise August!
            ¥PEACE¥
            …where you end up is the beginning…

          • Well Donna, you almost got it right. I hope you’re better at hunting than you are at paraphrasing.

            The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia. The Rocky mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3,009 it will be more difficult for you to find the treasure.f

    • Dal,

      Which email address is that Forrest receives 120/day at? I’ve sent 3 and have never received a response.

      • Homey the Clown –

        If you received 120 emails a day – would you respond to all of them?

        I do have some suggestions –

        1. Keep it short and to the point.

        2. Do not ask him questions.

        3. If you want information – forget it – find it elsewhere.

        4. Don:t try to be funny – when your not.

        4. Make him feel good – he might say thank you.

        • Donna when in aug are you searching? we will be in clear creek area mid aug

          • we will be staying in tall pine resort and coming down to clear creek. to show coty where we hiked before and camped

          • thank you and YIPPEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! no where near our spot. be safe have fun and enjoy your TTTC

  1. The interview in the thread you just closed has to be the best one yet. It was really well written with a lot of interesting, fresh stories.

  2. What a great write up. 🙂
    And when the chest is found people will say, ” Why didn’t I think of that”
    The poem is definitely a Master Piece. Created by a very very Wise Man. 🙂

    Thanks for sharing the story early 🙂 !!!!!!!

  3. Great article, good to read it here first, thanks Dal. I can’t believe Forrest let the writer have a sip of the Jackie ‘O Brandy! Great pictures too. So tempted to hurry out and search so that I can officially become a Certified Fenner and not just an armchair, lol, soon but where….which part of the Rockies. Where are all the searchers from 2014 and before, have they given up or just keeping quiet? Learning a lot from the past blogs, so many think/thought the same way any newbie does. Hopping hoB will hit me like a ton a bricks, good luck to all and be smart/safe.

  4. Next search will be next weekend. I expect to be searching the next clue in my solve. I still have not counted my clues. Could it be clue #9?

      • Slurbs

        You are absolutely correct 🙂

        Let’s stay in touch next weekend
        🙂

        • Amy Slurbs let’s have coffee if your near Steamboat next weekend! Would like to meet fellow searchers.

          • Homecoming

            I would love to meet you. Although this trip will be a quick trip for me. Like I will have no more than two days to search again. 🙂

    • amy I found your phone number on the blog I would like to have your permission to text you a picture I like for you to see I cant down load it from my phone to the computer

  5. From the article Dal posted –

    Although I have never considered a tree to be part of the clues, some searchers have/do.

    This almost sounds like Forrest is telling us that the blaze is not carved into a tree. “Fenn waved distastefully at another blur of gray, farther up the trunk. ‘There were other F’s there, but they’re obliterated now.’ ”

    Scott W.

    • Very good Scott he finally makes it clear here. I believe it is important to look past the tree to see the forrest. “Tree” is important but that doesn’t mean it is the necessarily an ordinary tree or even a physical one. I prefer to believe it is more clever than a just a simple tree, I mean how many trees are there in the search area? One just has to find that tree by staying realistic – don’t be desperate!
      The Wolf

      • I bet it’s a crabapple tree. Is funny how quickly those blooms can just disappear…sometimes faster than you can even take a picture if you pick to walk right by…Just IMO (and natures lol)

    • Qwert… Really well put reminds me of “The moving finger writes, and having writ…”

  6. As I have gone alone in there. That could be anywhere, but I truly believe it is the Rio Grande Gorge where he has gone alone. Begin it where warm waters halt. Where warm waters halt is the Rio Grande/Red River confluence. And take it in the canyon down. Not far, but to far too walk. Put in below the home of Brown. Definately the canyon is the Rio Grande Gorge and clear down to the middle box or shortly before reaching the middle box. Clearly, not far, but to far too walk. Any distance from the confluence could be considered below the home of the brown. Anywhere along the Rio Grande is no place for the meek. There’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high. I interpret heavy loads to be the huge boulders near the middle box. I read the river is deepest at the middle and therefore waters are high. It is approximately five miles from the confluence to the middle box. From the middle box to about 1 1/2 miles north, a large section is covered by trees along the east bank. I believe Mr. Fenn entered from the Mesa above, as there is a wide gulch that could have been easily transversed by a man of his age. He walked along the east bank, until he could go no further and placed the chest among the trees. That is how I intrepret the clues. If you follow my lead. you can reach that site by entering Old Highway 3 off of State Highway 522 above Arroyo Hondo. Veer right, going north. NW is Spanish Peak Road and N is Sangre De Cristo Mountain Road. Take neither, but follow the road to the immediate left (unnamed). Along this road about a mile is a house, then a concrete platform with equipment. Continue around the platform and you can reach the middle box, but continue due north from the center of the Mesa and you will reach your site of descent to the Rio Grande River. Should you decide to try this site and find the chest, of course I will expect to share in your find, as I have provided you the information. Good luck, Phil Harris of Tulsa, Oklahoma

    • I ha e searched this area pretty good, and know Dal has too…very steep in and outs and doubt F would use area. Remember, alt. Needs to be over 5k too. But lune the way you think.

      • I don’t recall Dal stating he had searched that particuliar area. He has searched above the confluence and the Red River, but to my knowledge not the area near or at the middle box.

        • I searched the confluence of the Red and the RG about a mile in each direction. I also searched further south at the confluence of the Hondo and the RG about a mile in each direction.
          Additionally, I searched up the Hondo a mile or so. On the Red I searched from a few miles above the town of Red River down to the mine and from about a mile above the hatchery to the confluence.

        • seabee-
          Some people actually believe what Forrest has told us. One of the clues he gave awhile back was the approximate elevation of the chest. This clue appeared in True West Magazine a couple of years ago. Since then he has verified that the quote was accurate.
          In fact, you used the elevation clue in the first comment you made about a year ago..here:
          http://dalneitzel.com/2014/06/22/the-nine-clues-3/#comment-42817

          • Ah, thanks Dal. Yes, I was very aware of the elevation limits Forrest has given. I’ve seen several other people using the distance of 2 miles or 8.25 miles in their solves so I read it as 5 kilometers instead of 5,000 feet. I think it’s unwise to use distances in a solve that Forrest has never confirmed.

          • Seabee –

            Let me see if I have this right –

            You are taking a perfectly good altitude explantion – turning it into kilometers and then saying distance does not matter ….

            Whew – Good luck with that one.

          • Into-

            You tried to see if you had it right, but you failed.

            The only thing I did was mistake Donna’s comment as distance instead of altitude.

            I then made the comment that using distances that nothing to do with the clues seems unwise.

          • Don’t most people just ignore 5k and go straight to 7k? I believe he meant what he said (even though he blurted it out on accident) because he knows exactly how high it is.

    • Well if you look at my solution Trouble with Confidence…..

      Begin it where warm waters halt (on a street)
      Take it in the canyon down (on a street)
      From there it’s no place for the meek (on a street)
      I’ve done it tired (in a car or truck on a street)

      Just a thought.

    • If my interpretations are close, he went down to Red Rock Point in the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone and back up the path, twice. The climb back up sucks. I did it earlier this week the same.

      • @E.C. Waters regarding the suck out or climb back up…my friend who loves to drift boat fish for steal head calls the take out the suck out….anyhow, I was thinking about the two trips in one day thing and how the hike into the target zone might be straight down hill or sort of 1/3 the time it takes to come back out….it’s been interesting reading about Moran and a lot of the history around that time, so thanks again for sharing your thoughts regarding a potential ‘solves’ for the TC. Today I wrote down every single word in the poem, line by line and stanza by stanza and now I’m going to look up various definitions for some of the key words. Researched Canadian Brown Geese to, probably not the Brown but they are known to cause havoc for aircraft and one may want to stay below. Not.

        • @Cholly, have a look also at the National Treasure movies for curious coincidences. The article mentioned in this thread suggests the title of TTOTC doesn’t seem to fit the book’s content. I agree. The title, to me, seems to point to Abigail Chase in the movies, potentially goading us that one solution may be a clue to layers of more solutions. I have a room right now that seriously worries me, connecting coincidences like “A Beautiful Mind” movie. At the moment I’m not seeing a fake best friend or a fake G-Man. But still…

          • I guess I’m not the first to link “National Treasure” coincidences with the poem and Fennisms:

            http://dalneitzel.com/2013/04/04/the-nine-clues-part-eleven/#comment-12677

            – Abigail Chase is like Thrill of the Chase (see Hebrew meaning of Abigail), and may refer to f’s father.
            – The painting behind Patrick Henry Gates at his home (about 1 hr in) looks like a Thomas Moran (but I can’t yet verify).
            – Where warm waters halt in the movie is where the Charlotte is found, north of the Arctic Circle, stuck in the ice.
            – The clue word “Silence” is capitalized because it’s a name, maybe like Brown?
            – Benjamin Gates uses the alias “Paul Brown”.
            – The clue “house of Pass and Stow” is like home of Brown.
            The clue “beneath Parkington Lane” is also like “below the home of Brown”.
            – There’s a Masonic “blaze” on a brick that marks where to find the Franklin glasses, the vision to see the treasured past.
            – “Heere at the wall”, an intentional misspelling, leads to DeHeere, former name of Broadway, and the corner of Broadway and Wall St., maybe similar to f’s “leeve” post? Another path of these misspellings might suggest Betsy Broun, art curator at the Smithsonian, leading again to Thomas Moran.
            – on and on, well to the end of the sequel…

            Did f get some of his inspiration from these movies?

        • Speaking of all things brown and wise but then you got the structure issue BUT he only said the treasure,s troveit was not associated with a structure

          The barn owl (Tyto alba) is the most widely distributed species of owl, and one of the most widespread of all birds. It is also referred to as the common barn owl.

          The plumage on head and back is a mottled shade of grey or brown, the underparts vary from white to brown and are sometimes speckled with dark markings.

    • I like the coincidence of the searcher Katya Luce and f’s curious recommendation to contact her. Luce Foundation Center at the Smithsonian is where Moran’s painting is maintained. Sorry. Can’t stop connecting.

      • Good morning e.c. waters,
        Now you have me curious as well. I read the article but missed Forrest’s recommendation to contact Katya Luce? Would you kindly direct me to that comment, as it seems unusual for Forrest to do that. Thanks!

        • @anna, using the link Dal posted at the beginning of this thread, third paragraph after the 6th graphic labeled “The Valles Caldera…”

          “One person whom Fenn was pleased to see, however, was a searcher named Katya Luce.”

          • Has anyone linked Katya Luce from the article (namesake) with Henry Luce, owner of Time Magazine, like the one f mentioned was in his trash can in the book? Luce Foundation also donated $10MM to the Smithsonian American Art Museum. I’m thinking that’s where he went alone in there, to drop off a painting or two they purchased.

          • @ EC

            The art angle probably has validity but I wuold look in 17 dollars a square inch for something to connect “kivas poles” or maybe another painting. Thomas Moran seems like a weak connection to me. Only my opinion off course.

          • Hmm. Lots of numbers. Anyone up for an Ottendorf cipher with the poem as the key? 😉

          • I like the art connection as well… But I don’t think the poem is in 17 dollars a square inch… Maybe we should be looking for the number 17 or square “”” in the poem?

          • EC, the 2006 Annual Report for the Buffalo Bill Center names The Luce Foundation one of its generous donors. You can bet Forrest knows the family or foundation representatives.

          • You are right on Track! I am very impressed! I can see you’ve done a lot of homework.

        • @ Spallies

          Thanks for mentioning a square I’ve been mauling that idea too, the last 4 lines all end in “D” vertically so more than likely is representative of a square on the side.

          D D
          D D

          Lucky Luciano might be a connection too since your following the Luce thing.

    • Did his Life…? It…the hunt. Quickly…very close to blaze (old English term for “shallow”. ). Heavy load…fast moving water (flyfish term). Water high…deep chest high water (another flyfish term) OR waterfall. HOB…box canyon at end of rainbow. IMO. Again, prob gave too much info but what the heck!

  7. This piece really brings out the human side of Forrest’s story and yes it is true if you have searched you will feel like a player.Warning: the chase sort of brings out what kind of a sport you are. 🙂

    • Warning: if you are a reporter, apparently the chase brings out how tasty you are to a poodle.

  8. The California Sunday article is great, except for the implied misinformation about anagrams.

    • Hi Muset… Do you mean because he says we are looking for them in the book not the poem…

      Do you think there are anagrams that will open up the poem like an actual key?

    • Yes the anagram debate, (imo) Forrest did state “don’t mess with my poem” now the definition of “mess” is “jumble, disorder,mix-up” , The definition of “anagram’ is to re-order, since an anagram puts the word back to a state of “order” is that still messing with the poem? in my mind yes as you had to first jumble the letters or “mess” with the poem to achieve your results. Of course this doesn’t mean i haven’t anagramed the poem upside down,straight down, diagonally and backwards with some results, but i believe if there are anagrams Forrest’s comment about “don’t mess with my poem” is a bit misleading don’t cha think?

      • Is backwards ok? “I can peek my secrets where?”

        This would add additional information and would suggest the treasure is hidden in a way that needs peeked at possibly through a hole a la lurkerofthechase mode or F own recent post with the head poked through a hole. Trove would suggest IT is hidden. A boulder might be involved “and with my treasure s bold” breaking away a facade could also be a possibility “go in peace” there are endless possibilities and I think the dudes recent article summed it up well. I feel bad for many chasing the wind/rainbows, stick with canasta., ambiguity is a devilish beast.

        Let’s not forget this isn’t about finding a gold filled box it’s about discovering Americas vast and beautiful wilderness “the real treasure”

        “24 lines of mind-boggling ambiguity, obscurity, and general vagueness.”

        Lots of ideas to explore further.

        • Sa Enjun, nice reasoning… poking your head through or making a hole to look. I also considered there could be an iron stick, wand, lever of some sort that you push/pull to release a top layer revealing more of the hiding place.

        • SaEnjun, I forgot to mention..
          I’ve discovered America’s vast wilderness and love it! Forrest’s dare caused me to return and love it again, and again, and again X12.

          Now, it’s about finding the treasure, and returning the bracelet in person. I for one want to meet Mr. Fenn in person, tour his library. If I find the treasure, then I get the chance to be his friend. Short of that, I’m just another searcher hoping he’d meet me for coffee if I’m ever in NM.

      • Lets take the debate couple steps further. Is a mirror image of the poem… [ messing with the poem ].

        Is taking every words meaning of the poem and use another word from those definitions [ messing with the poem].

        We all use Halt as stop, nigh as near, down as below… What if we took those definitions and put them into the poem or in place of the word in the poem. That would be difficult and hard but not impossible. and may take 15 years to get it correct…lol. Is that messing with the poem?

        All words have definitions. By using the definitions we conclude a meaning to that word.

        What IF that is how we find the clues. replace or insert the meaning to the poem for all the words and the poem now reads straightforwards….and not so “vague”. We all do this now, in one form or another. Right?

        Oh I should say, IMO straightforwards does not only mean easy or simple… but honest. Most call fenn a Master Word Smith. I agree. Is ” I blend a little” a possible subtle hint?

        Food for thought.

        • Seeker ——> straightforward meaning that when looking at maps or with BOG the direction is always straightforward from point of reference IMO

          • Cat,

            Sure, I agree with that. it has to be at some point. right?
            And could have been done with the book itself… IMO and IMO why fenn took the avenue of a poem to represent the clues.

            Not Just to say here ya go follow this with one foot in front of the other only. A poem allows the writer to do and say things out of the common line of thinking. and the reason poems need to be interpreted [correctly]

            For me that is the important part of solving the clues… to understand the poem.

            I do not say my next thought to belittle anything. Look at the majority of solve presented in the last almost five years. almost all use the same idea as you presented. and almost all have different WWWH and other clues. How’s that working out? WE are missing something and for me I have put a hold on what a clues is… and concentrating more the usage of the poem.

            This may seem to be a step backwards to most… But how else do you go forwards if you don’t correct what is not working.

            IMO …. etc, etc.

        • Seeker, I have done jsut that and I feel I found a place that is simple, off the beaten path, yet close to a road, near to what is dear to him… and I am at the “blaze.” I will be making a trip soon to investigate.

      • Just for a laugh:

        don’t mess with the poem = show method in tempest

        “tempest” can mean either rage or a storm or a play by Shakespeare.

        If you wiki the play “The Tempest” you will find references to anagrams.

        I don’t actually believe Mr. Fenn was trying to convey that hint; I’m just goofing around. And now I better shut up or I might really cause a tempest.

    • If you believe somebody else that forrest said something, and you don’t know what was the context when he said it, then you might be misunderstanding it.

      • To me, messing with the poem is that you leave it as is. No changes of any kind.It is my opinion. RC

      • Yes Muset IMO you hit the nail on the head so to speak, we do not know the context in which Fenn stated “don’t mess with my poem” , all we have is that simple statement in the”Cheat Sheet” “Fenn has said” section of this blog i supposed Dal could shed some light on the context but as a stand alone statement the definition of mess confuses me, Forrest has stated we don’t know the meaning of words so i expect that he does, i have studied the definition of “mess” and unless he means “don’t bring the poem to the dinner table” i am left confused. This is perhaps one statement i would love to hear Forrest repeat.

        • Exactly.. and I think Taylor Clark went too far by trying to define the meaning of “the poem is straightforward” based on his own opinion while simultaneously mocking those who are working on anagrams.

          IMO, there is a poem and there is a puzzle within the poem– two different things. The poem is straightforward, but the puzzle is very difficult. Both lead to the treasure, hence the double omegas.

          • For my solve, I used the poem and then found the clues to match them. So I do believe the poem is more “straightforward” than people actually think. Just to theorize, I think Fenn was writing the poem as he made his way to the resting place, as most of the phrases he uses seems to be a “matter of fact” type observation. “Begin where”, “take the canyon down”, “Put in”, “no place for the meek”, “end is drawing nigh”, etc.

            Again – just another opinion that seems to fit the poem rather nicely.

            Fenn did say, “follow the poem”.

            Good luck to all!

    • Lurker,
      If it didn’t work this time, maybe goofy can help. For me on iPad, I had to turn my safari JavaScript setting back on. Hope you see this. Oh, and don’t forget to check both boxes. 😉

  9. Thanks Dal….nice story showing us some more inner feelings of Fenn.
    You know what I was thinking,if I get the chest I don’t think I will sell the necklace to him.What I would do( if things do not complicate in handling the treasure) I will hide the necklace and the biography in one European city in a very accessible place and give cryptic clues using paintings from Louvre or uffizi gallery etc. And give the clues in private only for Fenn and his family giving them 6 month to figure it out.Fenn can take his grandchildren to Paris in Louvre to solve the clues and try to get the necklace and biography,,,no physical exertion in the wilderness is needed just city search in a city like Paris etc that Fenn can easily do with his kids.If Fenn and his family don’t get it by 6 month I make it public for another 6 month pleading the potential finder to sell it to Fenn if found.If it is still not found in the extra 6 month,then I would retrieve the necklace and biography and hand it to Fenn for free…all this of course depends on whether I find it and also handling of the treasure do not pose a complication for me…

    Tint in Treasure

    • I think if Fenn really wanted it, he would just hire someone to find it.

      Great idea to turn the table of the chase around though.

      Scott W.

      • I think Fenn would not resist the temptation of TH especially involving his very much loved necklace,,,that is just to keep the TH thrill for sometime for him as well,,taking his grand kids for family related treasure legend might also add some feelings….

        Tintin Treasure

  10. Well deserved kudos to Taylor Clark. Well done sir, you have restored my faith in american journalism. Imho This article has captured the very essence of this grand adventure.

    Thanks for posting this
    Many thanks to Taylor clark for setting a high mark for aspiring writers endeavoring to convey any story in the written form.

  11. Very nice article! I hope Tesuque has not been replaced with a poodle!! Hope everybody has a great Independence Day coming up!! Pancake breakfast, parade, rodeo and fireworks woohoo! Sorry off topic.

    • Poodles were the canine choice of 17th century European royalty. Maybe the nipping poodle is the guard dog for the Fenn kingdom. Given the weirdos who’ve threatened family at his door, I’d want a guard dog with some bite.

    • He has written articles for Atlantic Monthly magazine that I’ve read over the last few years. The last one was a year or so ago about the dude (Willms?) who did a lot of shady direct sales stuff on the internet. It was a very good article as I remember.

    • Thanks for the info on Taylor, 42. He seems like a witty, funny guy…and we have one thing in common for sure…I love caffeine, too! 🙂 Now I want to nibble on his shin even more. Never mind me…it’s the caffeine talking.

      Looks like I need a copy of “Seventeen Dollars a Square Inch”. I sure wish I could charge that price working construction. Well…a guy can drool, right? I reckon I will, anyway…even if it’s wrong.

      • JC1117 – step away from the caffeine! Lol.

        If you would enjoy reading $17[ ] Inch I will lend you my copy – but NO chewing on the corners!! It’s a signed copy and one of my favorite books.

        • That is a very kind offer, 42. I really want my own copy of that book AND I really want it signed by Forrest. I’m inclined to order a copy from Old Santa Fe Trading Co. right away. Do you know if copies from there are signed? Also…I’m just curious…how many editions are there? I see there is a first edition “like new” currently available for $99 including shipping (Amazon), but copies are currently $65 from the Trading Co. Do you know if there’s a difference? Sorry to bother you with these technical questions.

          • JC1117, I truly don’t know if what Amazon carries is different BUT why not Order Forrest’s books directly from him at Old Santa Fe Trading Co? I like to support the author and local businesses. Now, quit nipping at shins and order the book.

            BTW – I’ve ordered a couple of his art books and he was kind enough to sign them.

          • Sign me up! Uhhh…Anybody know where the sign up list is? 🙂 I can order “To Far to Walk” easy enough.

          • I replied to Inthechaseto before seeing your reply, 42. I figured that ordering from Old Santa Fe Trading was the best way. Thanks.

          • Old Santa Fe will put your book in a cubby hole and F comes in often to sign them b4 they are mailed. I paid over the phone and 2 wks later, got my signed copy.

  12. In the article Taylor Clark says… “Fenn also had a gift for provocation that helped boost business and made him into a minor celebrity, featured in People and Forbes.” The only article in Forbes that I can find is this one below… Is that what he is referring to or is there another Forbes article?

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestravelguide/2013/11/20/spending-two-perfect-days-in-santa-fe/

    Also, Jenny might find it interesting that there is an article on the California Sunday site by Graeme Wood on “The Lost Man”?

    • Spallies, Dopunkil? in his Newsweek article said something similar years ago referring to an article People and Forbes magazine about Forrest and I remember looking for the Forbes article then and couldn’t find anything. I wonder if Clark took that from him? I would like to read the Forbes article if anyone can find it.

    • Spallies, after re-reading the Newsweek article I referenced in my post to you, it appears that Forbes article was in 1978–and when I checked Forbes on-line, it doesn’t appear that their on-line archive goes back that far.

    • lol….spallies….I saw it! Although on a totally different ‘mystery’, it was extremely well written like Forrest’s article is….:) The Somerton Man is so full of twists and turns…I love it….

    • Lurker, everyone else is getting the subscription notifications so the system is working. Usually when someone doesn’t get them they are going to their spam folder or being blocked completely by the email provider.

      If you want to email me we can try to figure out want is going on. goofy@dalneitzel.com

  13. Log in to WordPress lurker, you can manage your subscriptions from there. 🙂

  14. What a well thoughtout and well written article this is. Dal, When did Forrest sell San Lazaro pueblo? Did he sell it before he said “it is out of my hands” or was it after?…Just curious,that’s all.

  15. I’ve been researching all day. I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak. I wonder if the clues are scenes in contiguous paintings in a museum (or maybe a mural somewhere) where the display has remained intact for decades, leading to the painting with a blaze, and the title of the painting points to the final location in the Rockies. For whatever reason, I can’t seem to get un-anchored off the art angle as it makes the most sense to me so far.

    Anyone have a map handy of the paintings in the Smithsonian American Art Museum? I’d be specifically interested in those around Moran’s GCotY.

    • @ec waters, thanks for the link to Hadley’s poems of Yellowstone. I just finished reading the whole text while imagining the Fenn kids reciting them in the car on the 1600 mile journey…when they weren’t wrestling or trying to find Forrest’s shoes.

      @ararebird, if you would like to discuss metered tempo as it relates to Forrest’s poem, that would be an enjoyable discussion. I don’t know much about it, but would enjoy learning if that’s of interest to you. If you’re up for it, perhaps we could start a discussion tomorrow by exploring what meter, and counting syllables per stanza. I believe there could be hints within that structure.

      • Hi Anna,

        No need for a discussion but TY.

        I used the same tic- toc as Mr Fenn’s poem
        I used the same rhyming sequences
        I used many of his metaphors
        I mostly followed his punctuation
        I wrote the same number of stanzas
        It is also a riddle

        All it is really, is a mirrored image of his poem from the finders side.

        • ararebird – good for you! sounds like you’ve got it all figured out. What state do you search?Are you going with mirror image back to front or matching lines from bottom and top? In my opinion there are at least nine riddles, confirming rhymes, words in german, latin and spanish, reverse order confirmations for bog, and a host of other very clever methods used. So much that I get lost in Forrest’s poetic lair. It’s fun being lost there though:-)

          • anna-

            mirrored as written
            top down, line by line
            all clues are answered
            all metaphors exposed
            I’d be happy to be wrong,
            but surprised

            please do not mistake my confidence as arrogance

            best of luck with your juggling…

  16. hi folks update on hubby. he is doing great out of sling and was able to wear a back pack10 to 15 pound for an hour and still feel great. july 5 going to TX coast to test travel pain. thanks for all the prayers. first day the three of us hubby me and coty could go hiking, testing ourselves and our gear. found a couple of problems but fixable. coty did great with twenty five pound. step climbing was a little rough on my knees and will be sore in morning but have to get them ready for inclines which my knees HATE. hope every searching stay safe have fun.

    • wildbirder, i’m glad to hear your husband is doing better; able to build up strength. I’ll continue praying for your family. Hope you’re able to search in August.

      • well we have brought two pairs of wading boots, boots for coty, reserved our car and hotel tall pines in red river. and we have brought a bunch of stuff for us and coty out grand son we better make it. i say one week or less hubby is ready to stay ten days.

  17. That’s a great article.
    I would have to say it has more ‘clues’ in it than most other single pieces of writings i’ve seen.

    By clues I mean, suggestions on how to figure out a location.
    What say anyone else?

    • @Danny-boy, just no re-read article for third time, (love those pictures)….brief mention near the end of how ff stated if he got Alzheimer he’d go back to his favorite….and then he stops, and one other mention where he says he knows he could go back and get ‘it’. Not hints or clues to me but confirmation that ‘it’ is out there and the location is his favorite spot for something. Duh, we know this already, lol, IMO. Happy 4th to everyone and anyone lucky enough to be in Santa Fe enjoy the pancakes! Wish I could be there.

      • I saw two hints as I posted above.

        The f in the tree. And his phone number in the first addition.

      • @cholly, yes I agree.
        I’m not one of theose who hangs on every word from Forrest and analyses it to kingdome come thinking it is a clue.
        I guess I meant it had a lot of helpful insights into how he may have4 come up with the clues we already know about.

  18. @ec waters, sorry but no time today to play with ciphers. Given FF’s clarity on no ciphers, I’m curious why you are using that tack?
    I was surprised that National Treasure used Ottenburgs cipher since I believe he eventually landed on the Red Coats side: “By 1781 Baron Ottenburgs and those that remained with him eventually joined under the banner of the British Army.”

      • My family is Dutch and German but I am capable of communicating only in English. Some would argue that I fail in that language as well. I have a hard time pronouncing my own last name and the word “aluminum” is particularly difficult for me.

        • Hey Dal, have you ever watched the movie called “Without A Paddle” starring Seth Green, Matthew Lillard & Dax Shepard? It’s an older movie but one of my absolute favorites, soooo funny, beautiful scenery with the meaning of life & friendship intertwined By far not an Oscar winner but definitely a Must see!

        • Dal, are you telling us you aren’t fluent in Double Dutch – Deutsch?

          (similar to piglatin but more complicated.)

          • hmmm
            I am familiar with double-trouble, double-speak, double your pleasure, double-down, double-yew, but not double dutch.

        • I am Dutch too dal. My mom spoke it. I learned a few words. My mom had some pretty funny saying she that were Dutch wisdoms. She was wise, and funny.

        • Come on Dal, it’s either or:

          Aluminium if you’re Dutch/German or Aluminum if you’re American 🙂

          Of course, being Romanian I believe that Aluminium is the right pronunciation 😉

    • I just lost 1,000 brain cells translating all of that, and then discovered Google Translate 😯

      • Wow you speak Dutch Iron? I am going to start calling you Cast Iron lol… Get it?

    • Sooo….does that article happen to reveal the reference to the home of brown?…there’s gotta be a few pearls of wisdom somewhere in that clam bake masquerade of comments…Dal, do you happen to know if there’s a New Zealand version? May be easier to translate text than to try and lip read into Dutch.

  19. Jamie and others..
    That is a translation of a story in California Sunday. The English language version link is located in the first comment on this page…way…way up at the top..

    • Gotcha–I was just joking about the Dutch comments asking where forrest ever referred to a home of brown et al. Dumb joke I guess.

  20. Does “not in” Utah or Idaho exclude their Rocky Mountain locations over 5,000 feet? I was thinking the chest may not be “in” either state. but couldm’t it be “on” or “under” although IMO I don’t think it’s buried in the usual sense of the word. I realize this topic is not related to “the” 9 clues; let me know if it’s been covered or should be elsewhere on this site.

    • Welcome kidutah –

      I think Utah and Idaho are both goners as far as being where the treasure is hidden. Your just going to have to drive a little bit farther. 🙂

      I do like your out of the box type thinking about on or under – and that may be important at some part of the chase – so keep on thinking.

      If you do not believe it is buried – how do you think he hid it?

      • Not buried in the usual sense. I try to relate my hiking experiences with the Forrest I’ve come to know and what would I do. IMO, I think the chest is near a natural cliff dwelling or small cave / grotto. I’ve encountered many kind of places on my hikes just large enough for me “alone” to fit. He didn’t dig but simply “buried” or walled-it up behind or under stones blending it to the location. Like building carins – easy & quick – but not as obvious. He knows how to uncover centuries of nature so I figure he knows how to cover it. I don’t think it’s in /under water, although water is certainly nearby. See my response below to qtwenty2 for more and why I asked about Utah and Idaho. Thanks…

    • Kidutah,

      I would say this topic fits here just fine. My current solve, which I am now beginning to question, uses “not is Utah or Idaho” as a confirmation hint. The reason is related to the Fenn Clovis Cache. No one really knows where that cache was found back in 1902, but the consensus is that it was found somewhere near the Idaho, Utah, and Wyoming borders.

      By my reasoning, if it is not in Idaho or Utah, then that leaves Wyoming. Would I have gone looking in Wyoming because of that statement? – No. But because my solve puts me so close to the area, the clue Fenn gave about Idaho and Utah seemed to be an after-the-fact confirmation.

      BTW – the reason I am starting to question my solve in Wyoming is because of the phone number. Why in the world would he put his phone number in the first print of the book if there was even an inkling of a chance the Chase was meant for the masses? And… the initial distribution method of the book hints that it may have never been intended to go so big. This is really bothering me.

      I agree with inthechaseto. For me, and most, Utah and Idaho are goners as far as location goes. My opinion, of course.

      Scott W

      • Scott –

        Why would FF place his phone number in the first book?
        Because he has always been and continues to be very accessible.

        He is smart enough to know that this hunt would probably be as big or bigger than any hunt of the past – bigger because the prize is huge and very appealing to the masses.

        It’s a no brainer to me – that he would not mention the place, area or much about where the chest is hidden. If you hid a treasure – would you then go talk about where it is?

        The Clovis cache can be related to the hunt in ways other than geographically – and I think it is.

        • inthechaseto,

          I’m not questioning why he hasn’t mentioned where he hid it at all. I’m questioning what his intent of the initial scope of searchers was when he published the book.

          Let’s face it – he removed his number from subsequent printings of the book. That suggests to me that he did not initially intend for this to become so big. Otherwise, why remove the phone number if it was the intent all along?

          This is just something that has begun to bother me a little (a lot). Like I said, I am actually looking very far from Santa Fe. This is just a new thought I am sharing about the initial intended scope of searchers.

          I hope I am wrong. 🙂

          Scott W

          • Well, I know he said he got lots of phone calls from people who tried to get info – and that probably got to be a bit much. Perhaps his phone was ringing off the hook?

            I do not think this is very important to the actual solve of the hunt. I do see your point – but in thinking about the chase – I try to focus on the things that will move me closer to the actual TC.

            Just remember – if you don’t start in the right place – you are lost from the beginning. That is not to say that all your excellent research is lost – just moved.

          • Scott,

            I have asked myself the same question on why a small local book store exclusively? IF the intent was meant for a Tx’s Farther with 12 kids line of thinking. or A tenacious gal for NC with book will travel.

            http://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-questions-with-forrest-warm-waters-and-geography/

            These two Q&A’s gave me pause as well.

            “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts.” f

            “a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.”

            Do they help understand how it may lead to NM.?

            The big picture. Warm waters or rain halt of a temporary stop or change of course, could be all of the Rockies. IT maybe waters itself that take in the canyon down.
            The knowledge of geography, points to the CD as the Blaze. we know FF has been to almost every area of the Rockies from Alaska to NM. Could it be that Simple?

            What clue or two clues [ first two clues ] could put someone on the CD in a certain spot… and the may not have known. Maybe Tarry scant with marvel gaze is much more than don’t linger long. And the last two stanzas holding more information than most believe. as some think they are just closing sentences.

            So is the end is ever drawing nigh… hinting near NM. on the CD could end also mean Boundary or border, as in state line maybe.

            Are we thinking each clue is an individual clue and not a combination of clues that must be known as a whole? or the big picture with no short cuts.

            “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues.”

          • Didn’t Forrest make a comment some time back about “how many authors put their phone # and email address in their books” ? IMO it is an indicator that he is willing to interact and is interested in searchers progress. As long as we are not brash and intrusive I believe Forrest loves the game…Santa Fe has always drawn folks in from far and wide, so I guess one could assume anything in regards to what Forrest’s initial Chase intentions were as far as the scope of the search area goes. A lot of folks have solves scattered all over the Rockies. I think that is what he had in mind all along…One searcher will eventually find the key and skip right out and find the end of the rainbow. Maybe in this century maybe not ’til the next…Me, I’m gonna keep on keepin’ on until I can’t move down the trail.

          • I remember him saying that he included his email not his phone number… Does anyone actually have a copy of TTOTC with his phone number in it?

          • Spalles –

            Good question. As I stated above in my first or second post, this is new info to me.

            If someone can open the cover and take a look, I would be thrilled to find out this is not true.

            Scott W.

          • Question answered by Dal himself way back in 2013.

            dal
            on May 7, 2013 at 8:37 pm said:
            I have been told that the only contextual difference between the first edition and all other editions is that the first edition has Forrest’s phone number in it. The rest do not. By the way. They are binding up their 5th printing right now, 7,700 copies.

        • Indeed the excitement factor is through the roof! I believe his special place holds both tangible and intangible treasures. Forrest’s gold is a meager allure in the big picture, but nonetheless a darn good offering! 🙂

          • Jdiggins –

            The big picture (if you find the TC) is huge. Just take a look at the figure the Kardashians make – and I still haven’t figured out what they did to deserve it. 🙂

            Just heard that Las Vegas paid someone twenty thousand a month to display a boxing bag. That ought to get some ideas going.

      • Thanks! I also think much about the Fenn Clovis Cache and the ID-UT-WY area of its supposed find. Couple years ago, unrelated to the chest, I drove up from SLC to West Yellowstone though Star Valley, WY where some of my extended family settled long ago. I had heard about Periodic Springs and hiked up to it. It wasn’t far – but too far to walk up the entire canyon, so I drove my jeep most of the way up, parked, walked (without a paddle) not too far up the trail along the stream. When I arrived at the headspring, I can’t say warm waters halted, but they sure slowed to a mild trickle. I’ve also thought a lot about the locations of the fur-trading pioneer rendevous locations and fly-fishing in southwest WY and west of the 3 Tetons. IMO, I also think Forrest might have first seen his special place from the air and something about it reminded him of the waterfall and French soldier area area from his last shot down during his Vietnam service. He later came back with “boots on the ground” as a fly fisher. Again, all IMO, but there’s another area not too far north that fits my interpretation of the first two clues and the 2 clues after HOB, but I have no answer for HOB itself.

      • Scott,

        Perhaps adding the phone number to the first print was to encourage dialogue between him and the chasers, not leaving him out of the loop.

        The expectations were not this large of an audience but this would not necessarily mean NM ‘only’ solutions. The harm of including the # was not that glaring since his number was public anyway (as I see it).

        Today there are ample public discussions. In sum, I am more interested in NM than before but still focus on Colorado. I believe you are saying something similar but I wanted to add to your rationale.

        • uken2it,

          I agree with you. He published his email address and phone number to encourage communication. With that thought in mind, would any reasonable person publish their contact info in a book if they thought for one second the book would gather such a huge following?

          I don’t know the answer to that question, but I feel I must consider the facts that the book was initially sold only in a very small, local bookstore with a limited first print.

          I must ask myself if he ever intended (predicted) his chase would go viral, or if he only anticipated a local following. If the later is true, then perhaps the chest is located a little closer to where the people the chase was intended for actually live.

          Just questions in my head that pose conflict with the location of my solve. To me, they are very valid questions that I must consider.

          Scott W.

          • To me, the action of removing the number indicates that there was never an intent for the chase to receive the attention/following that it has.

            IMO.

            Scott W.

        • I think the only searcher he would want to meet, from now on, is the one who finds the treasure chest.

  21. Q1.. I don’t see why having his phone number would limit the area. If he gave his address to return the bracelet I would think that it would have limited the area. I think that the reason that he took the number out was to keep all of the readers from calling all of the time. I like the link to the clovis cache, I think that it is one of his most important ‘finds” or items that he has, short of his family of coures. All IMO. I have some more thoughts that I would like to share if you want to email me at mcmulgl@yahoo.com.

    • Not Obsessed –

      You are right about the Clovis Cache being important – but Forrest did not find it – he purchased it and he does not own it any longer – but sold it – with conditions that it could still be used for research.

      • Regarding Clovis cache…
        I think Forrest may have made an important paleo Indian discovery and bravely kept his secret alone. But my theory leaves unanswered questions. Why would F keep such an important discovery secret? Too much govt red tape with 1988 applicable laws? And if true, does F want the finder to keep it secret? How could he guarantee it would remain in situ and secret?

        • @42( IMO), keep in mind that the date time line of 1988 is the outside date of ‘discovery’ of special spot with any time as far back as those teen years with summers in the park etc. I have to think/agree with’ kidutah’ above too that discover may have been from a visual in the air possibly as far back as in the USAF training in AZ days (late ’60’s), flying just up the eastern side of UT and scoping out the Tetons, possibly taking high resolution photography with military cams and film etc. Another thought on special place is on the journey to the park, that 1600 miles, wouldn’t there have been some favorite stop over places at half way or 2/3 of the way? Great dialogue regarding the poem thanks to this Blog!

        • 42 –

          I am wondering what would make you think he would have made a discovery and kept it secret ?

          I guess my question is – is it based on any facts that you found or a hunch?

          • Inthechase, cholly,
            thanks for encouraging a reality check. I have no factual evidence which leads me to believe he made a discovery. The poem however does hint at brave andin (in d an brave) the wood (coffin or grave). However, the area I plan to next search is an obscure idea which most here would quickly dismiss its validity. Imo the place is dear to f or reasons hidden in his heart alone and hinted at in the poem. Even a fully solved poem will not reveal all the answers; there are deep things of the heart placed in the poem for him alone (some joyful, some very painful) -of that I’m positive.

          • 42 –

            Sometimes your gut tells you a direction or a feeling – that is correct – and after finding that direction – only then – do things become clear and then – you can verify.

            I am finding that if a “clue” is correct – I can usually verify it in at least three ways from Sunday.

            I like your thinking. There is a path he laid out – just stay on it.

  22. Inthechase, 1117 and I were referring to purchasing “Seventeen Dollars a Square Inch” from Old Santa Fe trading Company

      • Inthechase, you must have had your caffeine or a good nights rest. Good discussions here this morning from all. I may need to look at the ice free corridor and New Mexico and give up on Yellowstone area.

        • lia –

          🙂

          Yes, take a good look at the sunny days picture of all the states, and then take a look at the trails of old – the roads – how they where made and even the ancient paths by the very first people to ever wander in search of food – warmth and shelter.

          I know it’s hard to give up on a spot – good on ya.

    • One of my favorite books. You won’t be sorry. Thanks for bringing it up, I think I’ll read it again.

      • I just ordered my copy from Old Santa Fe Trading Co. I can’t wait to read it. Who better to write a tribute than a real friend? Answer: Nobody.

  23. Scott, if you are looking at CD as blaze, the bigger picture would be The Ice Free Zone and paleo Indian trails. Maybe the ice free zone is a large scale blazed trail leading to a more exacting wwwh.

    “big picture” anagrams to:
    epic ice rut (ice free zone)
    big epic rut (huge valley/canyon)

    IMO Forrest also meant for us to look at the “big pictures” made with his favorite movie stars.

    • 42 – the CD is not my blaze. However, an interesting place on the CD is very near my “blaze”. I put quotes around blaze because the blaze I have does not fit the definition/description of any I have seen posted.

      With that said – I am almost 100% sure to be wrong based on the history of the chase.

      Scott W.

  24. hi folks
    Google Earth has been greatly up dated. it is its 10th BD. it looks much clearly.

  25. much the same as
    the caterpillar and butterfly,
    the blaze, and hoB
    are diversely alike;
    just my opinion,
    toeing the line

  26. Goofy… “most” means some but not all’. Think i said that…but thanks for the exact quote. I was trying to hint that possibly a few of the clues were modern locations, just saying it in an off hand way. Could be HOB and the blaze. Guess no one will know till they…I…find it! “My God! Why didn’t I THINK OF THAT!”. Drove over 800 miles today and sapped! Still love ya! ¥Peace¥

  27. I’m sure someone has discussed this before, so I apologize if this is redundant. The clues did not exist when Forrest was a kid because he hadn’t written them yet, but of course the actual places did exist. The clues are his clever misdirections and metaphors for actual places on a map like wwwh and hoB, or a place in the canyon as in “in the wood”

    • That is correct, they didn’t exist because he hadn’t written the poem yet. But most of the places the clues represent did exist. At least one place did not exist when he was a child.

      • IMO, some of the places the clues refer to now no longer exist. I don’t think the chest is going to be found any more except by accident (or by a searcher who’s been in the chase for at least a few years). Forrest’s next post should be one of his most interesting. IMO.

      • Ty Kevin, I figured it was self evident.

        So then, a “place” that did not exist when he was a child could only be the blaze possibly, the road from the canyon down, or the parking spot. Everything else in the poem is earthly. imo

        • An unearthly clue can then easily be removed, right? Something unearthly that is somewhat permanent, hmmmm? Or if it were removed GE may see it for years and may archive prior years? I go with something permanent but not earthly. Vietnam Memorial for an example of a lasting structure.

          • The poem references a million things in history that will or should be remembered 10,000 years from now. It would be the only way that the poem would still work 10,000 years from now. My guess the very very very end of the map will be a waterfall that you stand above on or near, and thats why you have to cease. Then you will look around in the area in which you ceased to take the chest. Trying to reference and mirror history to fit into the poems words before 2010, and make it last for thousands of years to come, would require alot of thinking with just the right words to use.
            This could be why it is his legacy. This is why all of the SB’s and questions, and interviews happen. So he can keep hinting for the rest of his time. He said it was going to be difficult..

          • I’m addressing Hammertime. He has never said the poem will be applicable in 10,000 years. In fact he has made comments to the opposite affect. A little research might help you rule quite a few ideas out.

          • Seabee88-
            We both have our ways of thinking. I don’t imagine either of us know if we are right or wrong until the chest is found.. Let’s not split hairs here…

          • Forrest has already the clues will not be applicable so assuming they will is wrong no matter what you think. Regardless of our lines of thinking, if you use incorrect information to try and deduce the location of the chest your chances of finding it are practically nil.

          • Seabee88,
            I don’t understand your post, would you try again after you see my problem in reading it. Not trying to agitate or be picky just confused.

            “Forrest has already the clues will not be applicable” – missing a word maybe?

            so assuming they will is wrong no matter what you think. – maybe your response above will clarify this for me.

          • Posting from my phone doesn’t always work well. You’re correct. I did mean to say that Forrest has said the clues will not be applicable after 10,000 years. I’m not going to do other people’s homework for them but Forrest has said this.

            Hammertime was saying that we have different ways of thinking and my reply was that no matter what your thought process is, if you think the clues will exist in 10,000 years when Forrest has said they won’t, then you’re wrong and your chances of finding the chest are about nil.

        • Kevin P & ararebird, Your analogy about the blaze potentially not existing as a “place” when he was a child makes sense to me also within my solve theory… And the road from the canyon down I thought could be viewed as both a physical road, geographically and/or also as a different path or another means of travel… Perhaps spiritually gaining wisdom or knowledge or academically… Or even learning through life’s everyday experiences. These all could be viewed as roads or paths one travels, taking us into the “layers” of the poem. (or the cake recipe and/or ingredients), if you will)…
          “Just some other ways to look at it, I suppose”.
          Also keep in mind that the poem reads, “If you’ve been wise and “found” the blaze” (“found” is past tense). I think this is also very telling and important, IMO.

          • “Found” the Blaze, sounds as if you had discovered it within the poem… also could mean, past tense as no longer there, but rediscovered [ lacking a better term ] by the wise searcher… could be that the blaze is something you have to design yourself at the correct spot. [ maybe using landmarks to narrow down a small 10″ x 10″ spot… using information within the poem]

            Are the remaining 7 clues used that way. down, right, right again, down once more, come to an end, turn left, and down to see the last spot? I say “seven” as it seem imo, the first two get you there.

            Then again… the Blaze could be a tree or a wise old owl that flew away when the searcher approached… I’m ruling out the horse thing, I mean come on, how ridiculous is that, to think a horse will be around for a 100 or 1000 yrs.

            Just rambling and rumbling.

          • Wiseone-

            I believe once you’ve found the blaze, you can see the treasure. You just need some moxie to get it.

            The poem speaks to me from lessons I’ve learned afield.

            It’s a beautiful thing this chase
            I have already been to my blaze
            Its a gorge-ous scene from here.

          • ararebird,

            How can you say… “once you’ve found the blaze you can see the treasure”, … and then say, …”I have already been to my blaze Its a gorge-ous scene from here.”?

            Am i the only one confused? if you been to Your blaze why you don’t have the chest? how do you know that once you found the blaze. ” you can see the Treasure”

            The two statements contradict each other. Even if you just believe it to be.

            And what does Moxie have to do with it? iF a child can walk up to the chest… even if a younger child may need some help?

          • WiseOne—
            Just clarification. That opinion about the Blaze was not my opinion. That was completely an assumption from ararebird. I’m not saying it was wrong, it’s just not what I’ve discovered in my solve. IMO, there is only one thing that didn’t exist when he was a child. And that one thing is referred to twice in the riddle.

      • The clues are in the poem, there are also hints in the book,poem, almanac, yadayada that make the clues. So even if the clues don’t exist physically, you would be able to use the hints in the poem to get you to the spot in which that clue does/did exist. I.e. lat/long, a clue gets you from 1 place to another/closer to the chest). So if the first clue is an exact spot somewhere on earth, and the next 8 clues make up the directions specifically guiding you..(walk 1.25 miles, the head south for 3.5 miles etc.). The all we would have to do is find a starting point using the hints to buy the clue…and the poem would tells us exactly what to do from there with or with out landmarks, signs, and trails.. But we do not know if that is correct, because nobody has identified the correct 9 clues. So until the chest if found then the 9 clues could be anything to get us from 1 point to another.

  28. Wiseone…I agree with you. I can see F as a youngster crawling over and thru the mountains, exploring valleys and rivers. No modern road gave him easy access like now. He was a rugged explorer like Lewis and Clark, walking where no other man may have stepped, creating his own blaze. Then, time catches up. Others find his secret fishing and tromping spots and roads are created, parking spots, signs…etc. These “clues” are pointing toward things we will recognize associated to the specific areas. Just my opinion.

  29. @Katya & EC Waters, The Luce Foundation is such a large scale benefactor of western art and artifacts that I got lost in the Smithsonian’s data bank. FORTUNATELY, The Buffalo Bill Center of the West is user friendly with hands-on learning and information. The following article speaks of the Luce Foundation’s grant which facilitated making a large Native American collection available to the public on-line. Forrest seems to understand the importance of technological advances in making learning accessible to all. I wonder if his vision and input assisted with the photographing/cataloging process.

    It’s hard for me to imagine the treasure chest not being in Wyoming.

    http://centerofthewest.org/2014/06/03/points-west-virtual-collection-pim/

  30. rarebired et al, I know you’re not searching Yellowstone area but remember Ennis slide area (1959) didn’t exist. Also re: “WWH”, the Sulpher Gulch area on Red River, NM was formed by WWH. Wolf had used the Moly Mine ponds for WWH but the gulch is up canyon slightly and not man made. Side Note; boyscout killed this past week-end on Philmont Scout Ranch in flash flood accident. NM is going into what we call the Monsoon Season (I know real monsoon from Vietnam). Be Careful out there and health, peace and good fortune to all!

  31. In a 2009 edition of “True West” I discovered a wonderful article about the life and work of Joseph Henry Sharp while he lived among the Crow or Absarokee People of Montana. Previously, I wondered who purchased Sharp’s log cabin and if it was a museum on the Crow Reservation.

    This is cool! It turns out that Forrest & Peggy purchased the cabin and orignial furnishings and had them moved to the Buffalo Bill Center in Cody. What an outstanding way to get to know Sharp’s work by touring his home. I can’t wait to plan a trip to Cody.

  32. I won’t be visiting the mtns in near time. I feel it’s only fair that I give everyone a head start. I will heed your warning when I do. Thank you

  33. Seeker-

    I’m sitting in my chair visualizing my blaze, and the gorge-ous view. I see it in my minds eye. The chase entices my mind.

    In my simple solve, once I find the blaze, I will be within eye-shot of the tc. It’s sitting on a ledge in a ravine. I should have said bravery instead of moxie to actually reach it.

    Hope this clears things up for everyone.

        • There is no paddle. You’re in a canyon. It’s a euphemism for trekking upstream. There is water high, and likely a staircase of stones that eventually lead to the blaze. It’s quite a long ways. Can you see it? You’re one with God and nature. You should be in awe, right about now…

          • rbird how’d you know that. Staircase up the front of a falls then boom my front porch, house but wear is the door?

          • Hi Cat cut-

            I dare say, you’re at the wrong Home 🙂

            When you get to the door, you’ll see the welcome mat.

            Mr. Hendrickson-

            We need to get you a hover craft

  34. Ok, so i’ve had a question that I can’t figure out an answer to. Forrest admits he drove to the area and walked a few miles to the final TC resting area. Has he ever said how he was going to do it if he didn’t get better? An abandoned rental car would attract authorities that would search for a person and most likely have cadaver dogs. If he were to truly go alone, he would have to leave a vehicle of some kind behind that would attract attention, if he was dying from cancer then a walk from a nearby town would be almost impossible. So how do you think he was going to do it and not leave a trace so there was no headlines of “Missing Millionaires car found at XXXXXXX”?

      • Yes, the total distance that it took to hide the treasure from his car/truck, was less than or equal to 1 mile.

        You get this from the definition of Few….

        not many but more than one

        1.1 is more than one, so the whole trip took 1 or less, but I don’t think that helps an incredible amount. 2 trips indicates 4 lengths. 1 mile is 5,280 … so the first trip to to the hidey spot from the car is 1,320 feet (480 yards) or less. He literally could’ve gotten out of the car walked 20 feet and hid it.

        • Ah, less than a few, could also be two

          According to my calculations, he hiked approx 720 feet farther than the chest is above sea level. jmo

    • lucky-

      It’s quite clear to me that Mr. Fenn would hide his car in a poem somewhere.

      By the time it is found, he’ll be one with the air.

    • “Abandoned” rental car attracts attention? I’ve often left my jeep or rental jeep/car at a trailhead or other location for entire days / nights. Then again, some of the time, I’ve notified next of kin or local blm / park service folks or left a “Gone Hikin'” note on the dashboard. Thus others may have known beforehand or checked-up about my vehicle without me knowing while hikin, but no one ever came searching for me cause of the jeep just parked a long while. IMO, Fenn’s an early riser and knowing exactly where he was going and how to get there, me thinks he made his two trips in a single day and attracted little or no unusual attention.

      • No, im saying if he knew the cancer was going to end his life and not get better then a rental car or truck couldn’t work.

        • Y’all assume if he was going to his final resting place…he would just leave and not tell or say his good byes.

          Honey there’s no hope so as you already know have a great life see you in the next the car can be found here.

          Either way it won’t be known by any of us.

      • IMO – he did it on a Summer afternoon – to garner as much daylight as possible (about 8 hours). If one were to calculate how long an average person takes to walk a mile, it is about 30 minutes….add another 15 minutes if you are carrying weight of about 20 lbs (taken in two trips – one was probably just the chest, and one probably was the contents.)

        45 mins = 1 mile

        If Fenn walked from his car “a few miles” (we will use two for this calculation), then two miles at 45 minutes each mile = 1.5 hrs x 2 trips = approx 3 hours. This is well within an “afternoon”….AND….if Fenn were to mark the trail he used, adding another 2 hours to the mix still keeps a person within the “afternoon”.

        But like Fenn suggested – “bring a flashlight”, just in case……you are at twilight, and need to find the trail back.

        Good luck!

      • Goofy,
        I agree. It’s too easy to be swept away in the side theories.

        I think the most important recent hint is that a comprehensive knowledge geography is helpful. IMO, although a broad statement, it tells me that’s where old and new might come into play.

        I don’t know anything for sure yet, and may never know, but it’s fun to try..

      • @Goofy, thanks for the link

        @Mindy, cute new haircut!

        Geography defined:

        Definitions
        from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 4th Edition
        n. The study of the earth and its features and of the distribution of life on the earth, including human life and the effects of human activity.
        n. The physical characteristics, especially the surface features, of an area.
        n. A book on geography.
        n. An ordered arrangement of constituent elements: charting a geography of the mind.
        from Wiktionary, Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License
        n. The study of the physical structure and inhabitants of the Earth.
        n. The physical structure of a particular region; terrain.
        from the GNU version of the Collaborative International Dictionary of English
        n. The science which treats of the world and its inhabitants; a description of the earth, or a portion of the earth, including its structure, features, products, political divisions, and the people by whom it is inhabited. It also includes the responses and adaptations of people to topography, climate, soil and vegetation.
        n. A treatise on this science.
        from The Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia
        n. The science of the description of the earth’s surface in its present condition, and of the distribution upon it of its various products and animals, especially of mankind, etc. See phrases below.
        n. A book containing a description of the earth or of a portion of it; particularly, a school-book for teaching the science of geography.
        n. The main features of a locality as regards its geographical position and general character; the knowledge derived from geographical research.
        from WordNet 3.0 Copyright 2006 by Princeton University. All rights reserved.
        n. study of the earth’s surface; includes people’s responses to topography and climate and soil and vegetation

        • Thanks, Anna.

          Yep, that’s a pretty broad definition. But I do think it’s helpful! IMO, I think it hints that we have to look deeply and think deeply about place names and nothing in the poem is as it seems. 🙂

      • @Goofy, Thank you for posting this older link, I had not seen it. I’m one of these armchair searchers (for now) who try and reverse engineer the special place and how/when he located it etc. Wondering was there a plan for a memoir back in 1988 or just the poem, anyone? P.S. @Iron Will: who is Shiloh? And, @anyone: Why is it so hard to find the archived link to the ‘scrapbooks’?

        • Cholly, I don’t understand what you mean by “archived link” to the scrapbooks. If you look on the right hand menu up towards the top under “Forrest Shares” is “Forrest’s Scrapbooks”; click on that and all of his scrapbook pages are there.

          Is that what you are talking about?

          I know you asked Iron Will, but Shiloh is Fenn’s grandson.

          • @Goofy, love the site. Thank you for investing so much time to maintain it!

            Do you have any ideas about a mobile version that doesn’t compress the text into 5 chars per line when the threads get deep?

            Also, not sure if your in-site search widget is working all that well. There’s a TON of great content here and it’s somewhat difficult to find. I have to use site:dalneitzel.com in my google searches, and while I love Dal for also doing this site… dude, he’s a competitor, and his name hurts my eyes. Just kidding, Dal.

          • @Goofy, thanks for both answers, I’d searched for the back button to read all the older scrapbook post and just couldn’t find it, now I see they are under ‘older post’ got it and there doesn’t seem to be any chronological or numerical order to it! Thank you! Best. cq

          • Cholly the scrapbooks are numerically ordered, we are at scrapbook 142 now. I believe all of them are also chronological, with scrapbook one being the oldest.

          • E.C. you’re right the wordpress search function leaves a lot to be desired. I could put a different search engine here but that starts using up a lot of server horsepower and we can barely handle the load on busy days like it is, even though Dal has a beefy server for a site like this.

            Your google site search works well, and for those that don’t know the syntax they can use google advanced search which also works well.

            http://www.google.com/advanced_search

            For those that don’t know and want to search a page…..nine clues part??? for example…..you can use the search function of your browser (usually ctrl f) to search a page for a specific word or words.

            As far as a mobile version you might try Firefox; it’s available for android and IOS. It seems to work well on all the devices I’ve tested it on.

          • @Goofy, eh… Firefox isn’t ready for iPhone, but I’ll watch for it’s release. 😉

            In the mean time,
            I’ll
            just
            read
            the
            com-
            ments
            like
            this
            on
            my
            pho-
            ne.

    • In one answer to a searcher’s comment, he said “what is wrong with me just riding my bike out there bicycle and throwing it in “water high” when I’m through with it. You don’t know how many hours I have spent on that subject.”

      Couple of things: he said “out there” which tells me he makes a distinction between “in there” and “out there”. In other words, when he says “as I have gone alone in there” he doesn’t mean in the great outdoors, but rather in a place that once you get to it can be described as being “in”/”inside”.

      Second thing: he’s stressing the many hours he spent on the “leave no trail” and possibly this thought was triggered by the bike in the “waterhigh” concept.

      So this is what I propose: he rents a vehicle in Santa FE, puts his bike in the trunk (presumably this is all done when he sees the days as numbered, therefore the chest and its content is already waiting “in there” for him) and drives to the closes town to his private place and drops off the car. Then jumps on the bike and pedals, say, 10-15 miles to the spot, dumps the bike in “waterhigh” (and again judging by this very comment of his, maybe water high is just that: a deep water feature), then he walks another few hundred yards (presumably) to the exact spot. DONE!

      Since I’m part of the “treasure in New Mexico camp” I believe that he would have actually taken a bus/taxi/shuttle to that nearest town, and probably buy a bike with cash. DONE AND NO TRACKS!

      • @Liviu wasn’t there a recent article or something where ff says, ‘back there’ gave me the impression of a boxed canyon or dead end….When is the best time to search NM weather wise and when snakes are sleeping? lol!

  35. Sorry for double posting. How would he even get to a different state? If he flew on a commercial flight there would be records, if he flew his plane well now its abandoned at a nearby airport and if he drove from Santa fe and rented a car then his own car is now abandoned at a car rental place.

    • FF is a very resourceful guy. How it could be done would take bold thinking.

      But I think what some maybe missing is… He would most likely discussed with his wife about such an important decision as to his wishes and last resting place… Regardless of the plan for the chest / chase.

      At this point in time… As fenn said… He ruined the story and got well.

    • My guess would be that he drove his own car. But that is just my opinion.

      • Im with you Mark- However, I think he may have rented a jeep to get to a trail. This could have been necessary depending on what time of the year he may have hid it, to avoid any contact on the trails in the mountains..

    • Forrest could’ve had Shiloh fly him wherever, then he could take a cab 200 miles if he liked, to near the spot then walked the remainder and ended it there, and no one would ever know other than Shiloh knowing where he had flown him to.

      • In 1988 Shiloh wasn’t old enough to drive or fly..
        Forrest already answered this concern by saying that folks underestimate him.
        But please remember that the point of ending your life when you know that cancer is going to kill you anyway is to beat the cancer at its own game. So Forrest had no intention of waiting until he was too sick to do what needed to be done. He would have done things the same as his dad. He would have still been in reasonable good physical shape when he went to that spot and took 50 sleeping pills. He would not have waited until he could not make the trip to the chest. He would not have wanted cancer to have the upper hand. He would want to go on his terms…not cancer’s.
        Don’t underestimate Forrest. You should know by now that he is no ordinary problem solver.

        • Although it would be easier to find the chest with Forrest sitting on it with a smile and wearing a Stetson hat with a tea cup in his hand and a blaze carved in a tree saying ” what took you so long “

        • What I keep thinking about is Forrest frequently says in interviews something like “I got well and that ruined my plans”. Could that mean that by the time he finished the poem and wrote TTOTC he had no real intentions of throwing himself on the TC when the end came and that perhaps even when he originally was even thinking of doing that, it was a very nebulous plan and not completely thought out? I have a hard time believing that Forrest has any real intention of going with his original romantic notion from 1988. I don’t think he would want to scare any little children who might be with their parents searching for the treasure – what a frightful scene that would be!! 🙂

          • CJinCa: Other than what he’s told us, I could only guess what he thought at that time. I don’t think scaring little children who are with their parents mattered. Like Forrest, I think young kids who have been exposed to the outdoors soon learn that finding bones and even flesh remains are natural. Certainly not “fresh” human remains, but possibly more ancient ones of native inhabitants, settlers and dinosaur age. I could be wrong, but I recall Forrest ventured that when he thinks the time has come he still might head to his special, final resting place. IMO, though he may still desire to do so, I think the logistics of him doing so today would be more difficult and attract attention. For me, finding the chest and him would be joyous and reverant – not scary.

  36. Mindy

    I read your story about Honey Boo Boo.
    I have to agree with u. It’s been a few years ago when I heard someone say that name, I had no idea who or what it was about, so I watched less than 5 min of it. I was like ” You have to be kidding me. They are making money in this. Yes Poor Child. I could say that is about as White Trash as u can get, but I won’t say that. 🙂
    I would say there is no Class.

    Naked and afraid. I just watched that one recently like 2 weeks ago. I was like wow these people are crazy. I did not find that entertaining.

    I guess I don’t like Reality TV shows. They are scripted they are boring to me. Look at Pawn Stars, and then the one where u put money on a storage building. That one can not be true. We actually did buy into a storage once. For like 100.00 it looked like a bunch of junk that wouldn’t sell. Well we had a garage sale and made 1000.00 at it. 🙂 we took the owner of the storage room another 100.00 and told him what we made. Big mistake he has never called us again. I guess he does his own Garage Sales now. 🙂 I would say it was interesting going thru someone’s else’s belongings. 🙂 how sad for that person who could not afford to pay for her storage unit.

    Very Intersting topic today. 🙂
    Reality TV is really not Reality 🙂

  37. To E.C. Waters’ post from 6-24 about Thomas Moran painting, you mentioned “could be bear” but didn’t mention the bear that is in the painting. Perhaps you know, but for others, the bear is “in the woods” near middle left side of the pine tree cluster. Took me a bit to find it with zoom lense. btw – great post.

    • @kidutah, cool that you saw it. The commenting crowd here seems pretty anchored against this path. Maybe I’m crazy. I’m heading back to Yellowstone on Sunday. Can’t seem to shake the art angle.

      For others and unrelated to my Moran thoughts, I stumbled across at the Buffalo Bill Center a legendary George Brown (now deceased) and the history related to the Hoodoo Ranch. Hoodoo Ranch was founded by AA Anderson, an artist. Might be some curiosities to look for here.

      • E.C. Thanks. You probably know, there’s another Thomas Moran painting “titled” Rainbow over The Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone. It’s owned but not on display at the Smithsonian American Art Museum. It appears to be from nearby viewpoint as the the other painting. Makes me think of Fenn’s TTOTC intro to the poem “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure”. Hmmm. Too easy, too simple?

        • @kidutah, yes, I did see this however I could not tie a significant number of clues to it with my lines of thought. Doesn’t mean I’m correct, so go for it!

          At the moment I’m chasing another Moran production. It may be another goose chase, but let’s see. In the “Great Springs of the Firehole River”, there is a watercolor with Moran’s notes. The word “Brown” (capitalized) is actually written on the painting at the top to describe the color gradation effect from the thermophiles around the Excelsior. If one researches about this area, one will find Norris describing huge eruptions. This same area is noted by Osborne Russell. In these paintings, Moran signs his name with an interesting mark (“blaze”), including a downward arrow. This river was also said to be Dal’s favorite “goto” in Yellowstone solutions. I’m heading there tomorrow to hunt.

          • E.C. Thanks for reply guessing your busy preparing to go. I tend to agree with much of what you / Dal / others say about the YNP area. Happy trails and good fortune in your chase!

          • Made it from Wichita to Thermopolis on trip #2 this year. Heading to Cody this morning for recon and then to Firehole.

    • What if I just want to take the title and leave the treasure. Why do I have to take the chest?

        • I respectfully disagree with Mr. Fenn. My opinion is the title can be taken or why else tell the searcher “just” the chest please nothing else. Mr. Fenn employes all sorts of little tricks. They are not the same object!!

          • @catcut, we speculate that at one time if the poem was written “just take the chest and leave my bones”, perhaps he wanted his remains to remain, and perhaps “just” is just an artifact of this change.

          • So Cat Cut you somehow know they are separate objects even though he stated they are not.

            There is no way to “respectfully” call someone a liar. He was asked a very clear question and gave a clear point blank answer. To me this is not a question of interpretation.

            But before I nuke you for calling Fenn a liar I’ll give you a chance to give your interpretation of what he said.

          • All depends on your understanding of title and what fenn is referring to. Interpretation can be tricky, not the author’s answer.
            The other factor to consider is the question itself… “are these two separate ‘objects'”.

          • Repost from JC1117 that I thought sounded fitting.

            The second thought that comes to me is of an Olympic gold medal. When an athlete “wins gold” does a person’s mind typically focus on the “small” gold necklace around their neck? Maybe…a little bit…but the more common understanding of “winning gold” is of a much larger concept or ideal…the blood, the sweat, the tears, the determination, the sacrifice, the struggle, the Victory (etc. etc.) …the TITLE!

          • Cat Cut –

            I think I see what you are saying regarding the word “JUST”.

            Actually I think that word is a hint to something,

            I do NOT believe Forrest is as tricky as people think. It’s been many a time that I could not figure what he was saying but after I found something new – everything he said prior, all of a sudden became very clear. That’s where the fun comes in.

            Have you considered that the poem it’s self- is title to the treasure.

            Also I think you are saying – that if you found the Treasure – you would take the gold and leave the chest. Forrest has said – it is now out of his hands – and so you could do any thing you wanted with what ever you wanted. I do think it would be nice to return his bracelet. I do not believe there is a title to anything hidden in the chest – but each to their own.

          • Goofy you haven’t the faintest idea what a clue is or isn’t “Please God of the chase enlighten us.” Do you realize how childish you sound speaking for F.

            I believe there are “items” call them whatever you want, physical objects which can be taken. Wether he is referring to them as “title” or “blaze” is just semantics. Oh but he already said it wouldn’t be feasible to remove the blaze. Well which blaze are we talking about. Blaze just means to show the way. You used the word lie because you believe you’ve interpreted his statement correctly. I prefer trick answer.

          • Cat Cut I’m going to ignore your silly name calling.

            You wrote:
            What if I just want to take the title and leave the treasure. Why do I have to take the chest?

            I posted the question and Fenn’s answer:
            The “Chest” and the “Title”, are these 2 separated objects? ~Mr. T

            No, Mr. T. f

            You wrote:
            I respectfully disagree with Mr. Fenn. My opinion is the title can be taken or why else tell the searcher “just” the chest please nothing else.

            Are you calling Fenn a liar?

          • Goofy, “2 seperated objects”… really? How about 2 seperate objects? If I were to put the title of my vehicle in a chest, the woyld not be “seperated”… seperate, yes… seperated, no. Semantics? As worded one could be parted with the other. I agree that title and chest are seperate items yet, together so they are not seperated. All I say is IMO. All Cat said was in his/her opinion as well. I never intepreted Cat calling f a liar. Any good attorney could make an arguement for Cat. I suggest not jumping to conclusions. I have jumped to conclusions as to the resting place of the treasure chest, searched said place/s and came back with out the chest (i.e. I was wrong in jumping to conlusions). I made mistakes in my interpretations and admit it.
            Amy, good fortunes to you 🙂

          • Do you sir see anything in my post using the word liar? No! I didn’t think so. What I’m trying to tell you is I respectfully disagree with the implied surface level meaning of his statement. I was very clear that it was my opinion too. Maybe we should explore what a title is?? In most cases it is not physical but if you’ve read “first grade” from ttotc you’ll find he talks about a wooden sign with his dad’s title on it. The chapter goes on to talk about “no name” cigarettes which I believe implies they have no title. In any case my point is why discuss this in the book if title isn’t important, furthermore why even use the word title. Let me give you a hypothetical example. You are searching a wooded area and find two gold coins left behind by Forrest, at that point you realize the gold is hidden close by. So now you have “title”. What I’m saying is wether you call those items “title” or not is semantics.

          • Cat, I think there is something getting lost in translation here. IMO Mr. Fenn doesn’t employ tricks in the delivery of his content. He says things in a way that challenges the reader to think of the many ways a statement or phrase can be interpreted and think carefully about the content that may be delivered in the seemingly simplest of statements. If Mr. Fenn made a statement that someone else then interpreted and you then questioned that person’s interpretation, then total fair game for whether that second person had an accurate interpretation of the intent of the statement. However, to question someone’s articulation of their own knowledge does raise questions on whether that individual is being forthright or honest about delivering information that they personally have clear knowledge of.

            I don’t think you have ill intent here and mean to come off as offensive or contentious but I do feel Goofy and others have a point in questioning how it’s possible to disagree with the veracity of someone’s own statements without calling their character into question. In the end though it’s not worth getting bent out of shape about. We are all just shadows of ourselves interacting in this text based realm and if we aren’t doing something positive here or adding to our daily quality of life then we should probably be doing something else. Honestly there is nothing I or anyone else should be able to say to you here that strikes you at a place that you have to rattle off an angrily worded response. These are just words on a screen from someone who has never met you, doesn’t know you, and shouldn’t factor in any significant way into your internal dialogue of justice or self worth.

          • Cat – you mentioned a sign, in the hypothetical scenario you presented that would probably be the appropriate word. The sign tells one they have title to the gold. Someone should probably rephrase the question to Forrest.

            sign
            sīn/
            noun
            1.
            an object, quality, or event whose presence or occurrence indicates the probable presence or occurrence of something else.

          • CE Thank you for the clarification. That’s what Mr. Fenn is doing sign vs title confusing the reader. A title being non physical and a sign the object. Like I said a trick answer not a lie. IMO of course.

          • Thanks for your input three rocks but I’m sticking with the word trick.

            trick
            trik/
            noun
            1.
            a cunning or skillful act or scheme intended to deceive or outwit someone.

            By placing the focus on title it allows him to not call it an object but IMO what he isn’t saying is wherever there is smoke there is fire. Where there is a title there is a sign. Trick is appropriate imo. Thanks for your input.

          • So cat are you saying if I find cat poop under my couch that’s a sign a cat is close by. Bahaha have a good day Catty 🙂

          • separate objects in meaning to.

            A title to a vehicle or a title [ deed ] to property shows the vehicle and the land “mean” the same to those titles. Semantics is arguing to different tangible items…

            The title is the chest / gold to what Fenn means in the poem. Calling the chest indulgence give is a title as well. writing the name on paper shows the name as title… making two separate items… the paper and the chest… but one in the same.

            Elementary my dear Watson.

            If one believes they are separate to work out a solve. then by all means, believe what ya like. The answers is to being separate with no meaning to each other.

            so No is the correct answer. Even if separate or separated is used.

        • Mr Fenn has stated repeatedly and emphatically in that the poem is…
          Straightforward

          Naysayers may want to review the definition for Straightforward

          Directly forward; right ahead.

          Direct; leading directly forward or onward.

          *Characterized by uprightness, honesty, or frankness; honest; frank; open; without deviation or prevarication*

          as, a straightforward course; a straightforward person, character, or answer.

      • @ Goofy old guy

        In my humble opinion Goofy you should apologize to Cat. I think her point was spot on.

        Try I must in hopes ff will answer…
        Mr. Fenn,
        The “Treasure Chest filled with Gold” and the “Title to the Gold”.
        The “Chest” and the “Title”, are these 2 separated objects? ~Mr. T

        No, Mr. T. f

        Notice the word separated vs separate which could indicate chest and title are different objects yet together. Therefore one could be taken without the other. Correct me if I’m wrong??

        • Lilly, Fenn has addressed this on several occasions.

          I said on the Today show that the treasure is not associated with any structure. Some people say I have a desire to mislead. That is not true. There are no notes to be found or safety deposit boxes to be searched. The clues can lead you to the treasure, and it will be there waiting when you arrive.

          In her above comment Cat wrote; “I respectfully disagree with Mr. Fenn. My opinion is the title can be taken or why else tell the searcher “just” the chest please nothing else.”

          She is clearly saying Fenn is not telling the truth cloaked in sweetness. The only thing that saved her from being nuked is Seeker’s “separated” vs. “separate” semantics.

          In my opinion that line in the poem makes it very clear that whoever finds the chest owns it lock, stock, and barrel. It’s all theirs; they have earned it like Fenn says.

          What really makes no sense to me is why Cat would want the “title” and not the chest. Would that mean the next person that finds it can’t have it unless Cat approves? It’s ridiculous in my opinion.

          The next thing she is going to tell me is the chest is in Utah under an outhouse at a cemetery below 5000 feet. If she isn’t going to believe him about this why believe any of it.

  38. I may get blasted for this (and trust me I’ve tried searching) but does anyone remember where (or when) Forrest talked about Skippy building that electric gun thingy to shock flies (or bugs)? I forgot all the details, just trying to find the location. Thxs

  39. Found on Jenny Kile’s Mysterious Writings website:

    Question posted 6/8/2014:

    Dear Forrest, In your book, The Thrill of the Chase, you mention how great your brother Skippy was. Did you ever learn what happened to the plane he flew onto Hebgen Lake? ~Don

    Thanks for asking an easy question Don.

    The family never learned what happened to that airplane or where it came from. It wasn’t a big deal because of who Skippy was and how he operated. Things like that were almost expected. I thought he was a genius. He may have invented ESP if he had lived long enough.

    During the war my dad had a barn where we kept Bessie, our cow. Skippy was about 16 when he nailed a large, flat piece of tin to the wall and smeared it with cow manure to attract flies. He had an electrical gun that he plugged into the wall socket. When a fly landed on the tin Skippy would put the barrel of the gun about 10” from the fly and pull the trigger. A spark miraculously shot at the fly and killed it. It was like a mini lightning bolt that made a loud PSSSSTT sound. Most of the time he missed the fly and had to move the lightning over a little. There were so many flies it didn’t matter.

    The electrical smell always started our adrenalin pumping and we played war. The flies were German paratroopers who were landing to steal American secrets.

    It was great fun and after a couple of days the “General” stationed me by the gate to collect a nickel from each neighborhood kid who wanted to watch. For a dime they got to pull the trigger.

    Skippy tried to explain his secret gun theory to me. He said it was “negative volts going to positive” or some such foolishness that I never understood. He said he was going to give his secret lightning gun invention to the Army to use against enemy soldiers. I remember asking him where the enemy would get cow manure. Life was tough in my lane. f

  40. Question:
    “…give an estimate of how far you walked to hide the treasure after leaving your car…”

    ff:
    “…But I will say that I walked less than a few miles if that will help…”

    Unfortunately there isn’t perfect clarity here. The question asks how far he walked to hide the treasure after leaving his car. This, at first glance, might imply the distance from the car to the spot, where he began to “hide the treasure”. However, Forrest has clarified that he took two trips from his car to the spot (including his order of treasure and chest), for four legs total.

    So he says that he “walked less than a few miles”, so you first need to interpret less than a few. Anything less than a few miles is less than a few miles (just like anything less than 200′ or 500′ is within those distances), but you generally wouldn’t employ the use of the word “miles” if you were talking about less than a mile.

    But is Forrest talking about one leg from car to the spot, or all four legs of the trip? That is a very big difference. Technically, the treasure was completely hidden after three legs, then he just walked back to his car. I think that most people are interpreting that Forrest is saying less than a few miles from when he first left his car until he finally arrived back to his car, after the four legs.

    But I don’t believe that it’s wrong to interpret “less than a few miles” to be from the car to the spot, given the framing of the question and the language of the answer. This would be four times the distance of car to spot versus all four legs divided by the “less than a few miles.”

    You can callz ’em as you seez ’em.

    Halogetter

    • Halo for the most part I consider that to be a non-answer. Less than a few miles could be 500 feet. I agree with you that “normally” one wouldn’t say miles when talking about feet; but we are talking about Fenn so “normal” doesn’t compute.

  41. I did some word definitions today, such as found, wise, quest and others and ‘found’ left me thinking the blaze could be something other than a physical object, not out there in the field along the path to the TC, IMO, still learning, open to ideas. I was curious why ‘found’ was used instead of ‘located’ or seen etc. ‘Quest’ was really cool, found this: “The Catcher in the Rye is often thought of as a quest plot, detailing Holden’s search not for a tangible object but for a sense of purpose or reason”.

    Regarding ‘I give you title to the gold’ couldn’t this simply mean surrender ownership? IMO IMO IMO I realize us west slopers get the last word of the day in! lol!

  42. The answer for the clue ‘The home of Brown’

    Brown is ‘Buster Brown’. This was a cartoon character invented by the Brown shoe company. A real life boy named Richard Barker played Buster Brown n the shoe adverts. Richard in later life set up a homestead on the Little Snake River.

    The home of ‘Brown’ answer is ‘Little Snake Valley’.

    Confirmation for this was in Forrest’s ‘books’ video where he mentions books about Frederick Remington’s paintings and says Remington also created sculptures. One of Remington’s famous sculptures was called the ‘Bronco Buster’.

    Each week on my blog site I will post a solution to one of the nine clues in the order that I solved them together with the confirmatory information from Forrest’s website, video, articles and associated blogs

    my blog site: treasurehuntsolution.blogspot.com

    All above is IMO.

    Next clue answer will be 6. Tarry scant with marvel gaze..

    Regards

    The White Knight

    • I’ve seen many, many people try to do exactly what you are doing. When I first started I did the same thing, I’m sure most people have. “Home of Brown” is probably the most obvious clue in the poem. Can you explain to me though why any of the clues before “Home of Brown” are relevant if you already know where this is? Forrest continues to reiterate the importance of “Where warm waters halt”. What is there importance if you can skip them and go right to HoB?

      • ditto- with all due respect White Knight, I would have trouble trusting the veracity of any solve that doesn’t first id wwwh. Most folks don’t even share the same 9 clues. Best of luck to you though.

        • You are correct ‘bird. HoB CANNOT be determined without knowing WWWH. When the actual solve is released, that will be entirely obvious!

  43. Just a thought… was reviewing a Gone Fishing Interview, To Far To Walk, & FF used a word in a context that made me halt.

  44. Due to popular demand I will list the answer to the first clue here before the remaining clues.

    The first clue is ‘Where warm waters halt’.

    The clues in the poem do not have to be solved in order as the answers themselves do not map out a point-to-point geographical journey. However, each answer is very important. The first stanza of the poem is irrelevant to solving the poem.

    ‘Where warm water halt.’

    This clue refers to the place where the Warm Springs Apache chief Victorio was halted by the US cavalry in his attempt to get North within New Mexico. The US cavalry waited for him at the last watering hole going North at ‘Rattlesnake Springs’.

    The answer to this clue is ‘Rattlesnake Springs’

    This is confirmed on the blogs (scrapbooks) where Forrest actually mentioned Warm Springs Apaches’, something of a giveaway. Also, Forrest mentioned apache tears in his pottery chards video. On the same video he also talks about baby ‘rattle’ handled pottery with ‘snake’ head designs.

    The next solution to be published on my blog will be “Tarry scant with marvel gaze”.

    The White Knight.

    • I have a difference of opinion with just about everything you said.

      Would have been nice if you had said – I think or IMO and not state everything as fact.

      Thanks for your post.

    • WK,

      1st stanza of the poem is irrelevant to solving the poem? What is the relevance of the stanza at all then? Fenn stated…There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them… Why dismiss an entire 4 line, 25 words stanza right off the start ? [ that is more the just a “few” words by any definition ]

      Your WWWH [ right or wrong ] doesn’t say how you get that answer from the poem or for that matter from the book… I see forcing from after the fact comments, videos, SB. What in the poem lead you to your WWWH?

      All we had from the very start was, the book TTOTC and the poem within.

    • Good Morning White Knight-

      I respectfully disagree. I believe the poem, in a step by step transition, precisely points out geo locations on a specific map that puts one within, say 30′ of the treasure.

      Also, You might want to check out the elevation of Rattle Snake Springs. just sayin…

    • Good Grief…….Another drama queen. Why do some people find the need to do this? Maybe it’s the delusions of grandeur sickness someone commented about the other day. If you want to post your solution just do it.

      Seeker is right, your clue solutions are wrong on many levels. And believe me he’s a guy that knows about levels. You seem to have somehow ignored the things Fenn has actually said about the poem.

    • Put in below the home of Brown = Rattlesnake is brown but I’m rather liking the ssnakey S on the end of treasure BOLDer

    • @White Knight: I’d be interested to read your post if and when you have the TC in hand, why toy with us! Just go get her done and stop messing around……IMO, would a kid know about your ideas, Buster Brown and the others? Getting away from keeping it simple aren’t you? Nevertheless, if you are right then good for you and thanks for sharing, but really, show me the gold!

    • Your name might possess more of a hint than your solution or solve. Seems white black and brown are prominent colors in the books. If true these colors would be the end of the chase very subtle associations.

    • Oh right good catch White night… I forgot THE IMO as well.

      I’ll add… Just food for thought, just saying, could be, maybe, possible, IF, or What IF, can it be…

  45. Dal, rumor mill in the hunter community (according to a certain attorney) is placing the intact Fenn treasure value north of $5M, perhaps $8M, at auction from new pop culture interests and has attracted serious vets and collectors. Are you hearing similar murmurs?

    Speaking of pop culture, I suspect the dalneitzel.com community may become responsible for popularizing a new word to the English language, “solve” as a noun. I propose the definition to be “a treasure hunter’s theoretical solution”. Personally, I cringe at reading the word in this communal context without a formal definition. Just kidding.

    • @EC Waters regarding rumor mill and estimated worth/value of said TC if and when located and claimed etc. I’d be happy with one million (20 Troy Pounds X spot market rate etc etc) anything over that amount is just to hard to grasp. The other blogger who posted the idea of putting the TC on display for a few years for a ‘fee’ sounded like a great idea, raise enough revenue to pay a portion of the taxes while you figure out what to do….any how how’s your search coming along? IMO on all the above….and Happy 4th to all!

      • @Cholly, search continues… Happy 4th to you and all as well.

        Regarding putting the chest on display for a fee… that’s still income and taxed. I imagine the cost of security to deter theft would be too high. If one sells the collection or any portion thereof, one is taxed on regular income, so the easy bet is that it is auctioned immediately to a collector who can afford or already has (e.g. museum) such security in place.

        There’s a (somewhat homeless) guy sitting on millions in emeralds at the moment at his friend’s home until his provenance and ownership case resolves. He found these in the ocean. His security bet is anonymity and public ignorance, not collecting fees.

        • *Correction to the above. There is not a guy sitting on millions in emeralds. My info was not yet updated. Apologies for the misinformation and please ignore the reference.

    • E.C.-
      The noun version of “solve” creeps me out too. Sister Linus would never approve.

      I think Margie Goldsmith started using the $5million value too..Lets see what the CBS folks say when their story comes out this month.

      The professional treasure hunters don’t have a leg-up on anyone else searching. Their professional experience does not prepare them to unpuzzle the poem any better than you or me. All the gold smelling tools in the universe are not going to help if you are not near it…in fact, I have heard it speculated that since the gold is all inside a bronze box…gold sniffing is not possible..
      Not that professional hunters necessarily employ tools we don’t…but Forrest set this up on purpose as a game where everyone starts off at the same level. No one has a leg-up on anyone else. No specific knowledge of history or geography or anthropology or mineralogy appears to give someone an advantage. No amount of “experience” looking for lost treasure is going to tip the balance in anyone’s favor. This is as level a playing field as I have ever seen..”difficult but not impossible”.

  46. My country, ’tis of thee,
    Sweet land of liberty,
    Of thee I sing;
    Land where my fathers died,
    Land of the pilgrims’ pride,
    From ev’ry mountainside
    LET FREEDOM RING!

    Happy 4th of July!

    • Happy 4th. Enjoy the BBQ but most of all be thankful for freedom. I can’t wait to see the CBS piece about the chase.

  47. @ Happy 4th to those searching Wyoming & Montana:

    CAUTION: Due to high temperatures and drought many counties & public lands/FS & BLM have enacted restrictions to protect natural resources. No fires or fireworks due to extreme fire danger.

  48. @kidutah, ec waters,

    RE: art angle
    In 2000 The Smithsonian Art Museum coordinated a traveling exhibition dubbed “Treasures to Go” One of the individual exhibitions titled “Lure of the West” which presented to the American people master works by Sharp, Remington, Catlin, King, Couse, Levi – members of the Taos Society.

    The Buffalo Bill Center has co-participated with the Smithsonian in similar traveling exhibitions. As you build your western art solve (which is such a terrific idea) it might help to link master paintings from several artists. While looking for paintings titled “Where Warm Waters Halt” in the past I’ve tried assembling a solve using titles from Moran, Russel, Remington, Catlin, and Sharp alone/individually but couldn’t make it work. However, drawing from several artists it’s easy to piece together a solve using titles of paintings & bronzes. Ufer, J. Mix Stanley, and Bierstadt are worth looking at as well. If you google complete works/titles of any artist, it’s easy to work down the list of titles and images quickly. Good Luck! This is one of my favorite angles and I would love to see your completed solve.

  49. Just some after the fact comments that IMO should be reviewed;

    “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f”

    1Q) Enthusiasm towards finding your treasure continues to remain strong.  So many people are enjoying the wonderful opportunity you have given them for such a bold adventure. Considering the many years the hunt has been going on, and from your perspective and interaction with searchers, do you feel searchers are becoming closer to solving the clues to the treasure, or further away? Do you feel over time, some searchers have forgotten beginning basics or thoughts they once had, and might benefit going back to them?
    There’s a lot brain power being expended on the blogs by some pretty bright people Jenny, and it seems they are having fun. But the great preponderance of searchers don’t comment publically. Very few tell me exactly where they are looking so I don’t know how close they are to the treasure. I’ve said searchers should go back to the poem so many times that I don’t want to say it again here.

    Six questions yet again:
    3Q)  In your memoir, The Thrill of the Chase, after the poem, you mention there are subtle clues sprinkled throughout that book.  You have said you hadn’t deliberately placed these subtle hints in your book; but have you done so in any of your other writings mentioned in Question two (scrapbooks, vignettes, etc)?  Or, even if maybe not purposely sprinkled in those writings of Q2, would you consider some of those to contain subtle hints too, like in The Thrill of the Chase?
    I don’t want to broaden the clues and hints I’ve written about by pointing them out. What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.

    Mr. Fenn, Is there any level of knowledge of US history that is required to properly interpret the clues in your poem. ~Steve R
    .
    No Steve R,
    The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.

    Someone unfamiliar with your poem receives a message that says “meet me where warm waters halt, somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”. Would they be able to work out where to go? If they can’t, would they need the whole poem, another stanza, or just a line or word to help them on their way? ~Phil Bayman
    .
    There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f

    “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta.” f

    I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” – f

    Over the past half-decade, your challenge for any cavalier spirit to find a valuable treasure chest hidden in the Rocky Mountains sparked a veritable gold rush of knowledge.  Searchers endlessly immerse themselves in study of topics previously unknown to them hoping to gain an advantage in their quest.   I would even go so far as to speculate that some have done more research in relation to the chest than some doctoral students do in completing a thesis. 
    To be sure, there is value in wisdom.  That value is then increased when wisdom is shared with others.  Which is why I was hoping you might be willing to share a thought or two about something you’ve learned from searchers over the past five years.  Whether related to geography, geology, history or even human nature, I’d love to hear if there’s been anything offered up by a searcher, or searchers, that enlightened you in some way.
    Hope all is well!  ~ S&H
     
    Thanks for the question S&H.
    I learn something every day from those who are in the treasure hunt.
    What surprises me is that so many ignore the first clue in the poem. Without it all the searcher has is the memory of a nice vacation. Although many have tried, I doubt that anyone will find the blaze before they have figured out the first clue. f

    Forrest, you have stated that several searchers correctly identified the first two clues in your poem. Could you tell us how many searchers to your knowledge have correctly identified the first clue correctly? Thanks. ~49 Dollars
     
    No 49, I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues. To me that’s just expensive folly. f

    Dear Mr. Fenn,
    You once wrote: “There isn’t a human trail in very close proximity to where I hid the treasure.”  You also once wrote: “And in close proximity were stone projectiles and crudely made hand axes that could have been 30,000 years old.”
    Can you clarify for us your definitions of “close proximity” and “very close proximity?” (e.g. 10 feet, 50 feet, 100 feet, 500 feet, etc.?)
    Thanks, Milan
    It’s not that easy Milan. Are you asking me to carry a caliper in my pocket? Each “close proximity” is different, relative, and site-specific, as you pointed out. So I can’t answer your question. To an ant a mud puddle can be like an ocean. f

    Dear Forrest,
    Now that the 2014 search season has ended, can you summarize the results? Ie: is anyone close to the treasure chest? Has anyone given you a solve? Thanks, puttputt.
     
    .
    I know of a few searchers who have been reasonably close to the treasure puttputt, but there is no indication that they knew it. No one has given me the correct solve past the first two clues.f

    Hi Forrest,
    You once said you walked the 92 miles from West Yellowstone to Bozeman to just experience it. Obviously you were much younger than you were when you hid the treasure. Too far to walk means different things at different ages so I was wondering if you would be so bold as to give an estimate of how far you walked to hide the treasure after leaving your car: was it >10miles, between 5 and 10 miles, between 1 and 5 miles, or less than 1 mile?   ~Thanks, Ron
     
    .
    Ron, your question sounds like a travelogue, but I’ll answer it. No, I don’t want to be that bold. But I will say that I walked less than a few miles if that will help. I just looked “few” up and one definition is “scant.” Why do I sound like I’m talking in circles? f

    Would you want the person that finds your treasure to admire the place where it rests? Andrew
     
    .
    Well Andrew, I’m not sure “admire” is the right word but if we twist it a little maybe we can make it work. The word means approval or high regard. So it works. I sure feel that way or I would not have hidden it there. I like the way you think Andrew. f

    Mr. Fenn, Is there any level of knowledge of US history that is required to properly interpret the clues in your poem. ~Steve R
    .
    No Steve R,
    The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.

    ———————————————————————————————————–

    “…. What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.”

    What out we missing? WK, This may help you and some other… I know they help me to keep on track. But they are just “some” of the many after the fact comments folks should review

    IMO, only to the suggestion, and not to the Facts stated.

    • Seeker-

      That’s a pretty good number of my highlighted in red and bolded Fenn comments in my comments file.

      Perhaps the most important elements outside of the poem.

      When pieced together, they make quite a story and paint a pretty detailed big picture…

      Halogetter

      • Halo,

        As i said and you know those are just some. The detail I keep seeing is re-read the poem, Know what the starting point is before going on, re-read the poem, understand the first clue[s], re- read the poem, don’t ignore the first clue, re-read the poem.. how many times and ways can he say that? What Important possibility our we missing?

        Maybe I should add… Poem, Book for reference, Google Earth and /or good map.

        While others are looking for an owl, a horse, a tree, at their blaze. Trying to figure out how much value the chest is, how to Not pay taxes on it, if he’s good at math or not, How long is a wiener dog, wonder how far he walked when hiding the chest full of gold, or will he still die with the chest…. I’m still looking where to start in the poem.

        Apparently…IMO… we’re missing that.

          • last i knew it was a bun length. Now i guess we’ll need to know how long a bun is.

            All I know for a fact is how much Ketch up I need to do.

        • @seeker et al, so is there a clue in the first stanza? Something that jumps out and says ‘it’s’ in Taos County New Mexico or near Bolder CO or W YSNP or the Tetons or……I sure can’t get a clue out of New and Old other than a stupid idea I had in the beginning thinking it means New Mexico, LOL! Must be maddening for those who feel they are the ones ff mentions about being close. Thanks for sharing, this is fun!

          • I am seeing now that it has finally sunk into many here – that if you don’t start in the right place – you will be doomed to never finding the TC.

            My advice is to go and read the poem on Forrest’s website – then go read it in the book. Find the difference – which is huge.

            Think about why that would be.

            Good Luck

          • cholly,

            In my mind, a clue is not a single word or a single line… It’s the answer of the meaning of those words, lines, sentences etc.

            I look at the poem as all hints and they work to reveal a clue. Example WWWH is not so much a clue as it is a hint, and needs to be understood, working with other hints in the poem to produce a clue.

            For me there are hints in the first stanza that collectively produces a clue.

            I’m also thinking on a possibility that the starting point is another stanza… other than stanza’s 1 or 2.

    • Seeker, I wondered about his “big picture” statement. He also said answering a question:

      Q: The internet abounds with a supposed statement from you, saying to “think big”, particularly about the home of Brown. Did you ever say that? Is that a “fact” that I can add to my page? Kindest regards from a rainy UK!

      A: I don’t remember saying that related to the treasure and can’t imagine why I would. f

      http://dalneitzel.com/2013/06/19/forrest-gets-mail-4/

      • “….There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f ”

        Goofy, When i read this the first time I said… I don’t like this, I don’t like this at all. It didn’t fit my solve. unless snow ball Earth is involved. But that would be really strrrretching it.

        But if you notices they two are completely different in context. IMO. ” “think big”, particularly about the home of Brown. ” was not said by fenn about hoB. He was talking about the Poem and WWWH. I don’t recall fenn saying anything “big” about hoB [ I could be wrong, but i don’t remember].

        I think Fenn’s ‘overall view of the poem’ is what he meant and not a narrowing down of a single clue. That and Maybe, just maybe, WWWH is not the first clue. I know that is not a popular guess, but “there are no short cuts” sent a red flag up to the possibility of that. at least for me. almost saying you skipped something. or of course another option, WWWH is a larger area than we think.

        The other thought was ” related to the treasure “.

        This has been one of my biggest dilemmas. Almost every thing fenn talks about refers to the treasure [ or the location of it ] and hardly ever a solid lead to a clue. Even in the Q&A you posted and the Map in TFTW is the area of the “chest” location… Nothing said or indicated all the clues are in the same.

        I wish I could have found the comment [ paraphrasing ] he will not aid a seeker…

        Te one and only exception to that was WWWH is not a damn. And that was to correct a discussion very few knew took place… The level playing field comment.

        Anyways that is just how i see it.

        • @Seeker, Here is one comment:

          Forrest Fire- February 5, 2015 at 9:32 am said:

          http://dalneitzel.com/2015/02/03/huffpost/

          “……….I have never used any name on the blogs other than Forrest Fenn and Forrest Fire, nor have I said anything with the idea of leading or misleading a searcher……….f”

          (hmmm, seems like there was an earlier one? But I cannot locate in files…need to check on that!!)

          Keep up the good work, amigo! 🙂 🙂

      • @Goofy, in the year 2525…..no wait, that’s not right!!! (but it was good times!!)

        OK, ahem, here we go:

        That questioner may have been paraphrasing something he read here-> http://www.kob.com/article/stories/s2261145.shtml

        Way back in the year 2011, Gadi Schwartz interviewed Fenn for KOB News. There is a video and short article.
        Although not mentioned in either of those, Gadi evidently got some interesting info from Fenn:

        At the bottom of article is what is interesting….

        Gadi relates that “Forrest says the home of Brown is “very important”.

        Also, way back in Aug. 2011 we already knew that he had taken it in, in parts.

        And, there are a couple of more interesting tidbits!! 🙂

        Thanks for manning the trenches, Boss! 🙂

  50. inthechaseto:

    the only difference I see is an extra ‘s’ in “answer(s)” in the 5th stanza.

    I remember reading somewhere that FF said it is not important. Am i missing something?

    • UA

      I believe you are missing something – but, good on ya – you found the “S” and if you dig deep and have the right spot – I do think it is a minor hint. I don’t know if that part – will ever be revealed – even after the TC is found.

      I also believe you will, along the way, find why the “D” is missing in the word “knowledge”. I mean really – why would he do that?”

      Your close and I will tell you if you find it.

      • thanks for the reply inthechaseto,

        I find the answers on this blog from many people -including you- very similar to FFs. (they create more questions and more thinking… and that is great)

        interesting. Have not noticed that one before. It is spelled correctly at some places and not so at some other places. really interesting. you are thinking it is deliberate?

        – asked for Ds but never got them?
        – he had a lot of imagination so he did not care much about knowleDge?

        • UA –

          Your welcome.

          Do I think it is deliberate? Do birds fly?

          I think you will find it only after you are deeply into a solve –

          I would concentrate on where to start FIRST – because if you don’t have that – first – you will be so confused later on.

          If you know where to start forgive me for presuming you didn’t know.

          Perhaps I could go into what I think it takes to even be in the game.

          To be in the game – you have become a treasure hunter. What does it take to be a treasure hunter?

          Some here know a lot – they have done their homework. Some have not.

          Read about how to become a treasure hunter first. Read other treasure hunts – it will help you.
          Read how other treasure have been found. Success stories will keep your enthusiasm up.

          Jenny’s website is really good for she has done so much in a very concise manner. It’s a great place to learn.

      • In the poem on the website, answer is singular. One answer there.
        In the book, answers is plural, do I have to post the definition of that too? 🙂
        I bet it means more than one!
        ,,,in the book.
        🙂 imo…

  51. Inthechase, perhaps ff is colorblind. That would account for black & white photos, sepia shades of brown and subtle hints in ttotc. Colorblind people may discriminate blues and golds, but often can’t discriminate red – which makes seeing red lights and tail lights difficult. on a color spectrum d falls in red/violet segment. In a rainbow, colors are seen at the borders where they overlap adjacent colors. Just a theory and imo.

    • 42 –

      I have not thought about FF being color blind. Lots of use of brown – for sure. Even the color of the book is brown – or is it really brown? THE POEM is written in brown.

      imo – Color plays a big part – his use of color is all thru out the book and on his web site.

      Borders overlapping have always been a problem in the history of the world and the creating of the west. I do believe a boarder is involved and will be a help to the eventual finder of the TC – in that it could never be decided exactly where the TC was found – if the finder was smart.

      I do think “borders” is why he used bobbed wire in one of his scrapbooks.

      I have yet to figure out why he used purple on the ID card – but really haven’t put much effort into it at this point. 🙂

      • Inthechaseto,
        Thanks for the colorful comment. If I were to have been asked what color TTOTC book is, I’d have said “green” or “forest green, I think.” As far as the lettering of the poem in the book, I never realized that it was any color. I’ll bet that I’d guess it to be green as well. I hope that I don’t trip on my color blindness. Maybe I wont see the blaze as a colorful thing.

        • Slurbs –

          Forrest once said he thought of everything. And IMO – he did just that.

          The color of the book – IMO is a huge hint – but you will not need it to solve the complete hunt.

          Your color blindness will not effect you in your solve.

          The way he used colors in the chase – will not be used until the end. (wish I knew that early on). You will not have to know what the colors are – but rather use them (colors) in a orderly fashion – which is easy to find out. He used them as a way of checking yourself as to know if your solve is correct. I couldn’t believe how he did that – but he did. So, in other words you will not have to “see” the colors – but just write them down in a precise orderly manner.

          Believe it or not.

          • 42 –

            I find it so interesting that you think he may be color blind. It could be a reason that he was so successful – in that he never really got attached to a painting. I don’t know – just a thought.

            I don’t know if I’m ready to give away my thoughts on exactly what the colors are right now. I have not finished the hunt at my spot.

            I think the colors should be found before the ground game. I don’t think they play a part in the actual hidey spot.

            I don’t think they can be found in any order in the book.

            Oh, and to your anomilies – you can add the colors on his web site page – excerpts page. Look for his photo with all the guys who rescued him – and find the words “into the” ……… 🙂

        • Slurbs & inthechase, thanks for the colorful discussion. I believe its important in the end game and wonder if you would think through it with me.

          Observations: TTOTC is predominately…
          Brown,
          Tan/Sepia
          shades of gold
          black
          white

          anomolies:
          -red letters: DO NOT TOUCH
          -slice of Purple – inside flap
          -gray/silver – bells pg 134-139
          -only color photo: page 142
          of lovely Peggy Fenn – colors are white, black, gray, gold, tan

          unconfirmed theories:
          1. ff is color impaired; sees red as brown or green; sees brown as green;
          2. ff sees gold and blue
          3. impairment due to male missing X chromosone
          4. impairment becomes a huge advantage with night vision and recognizing camoflage.
          5. Peggy may have been the eyes to Forrest’s world of color when selecting artwork.

          @inthechase, you mentioned the necessity to record precisely the colors. Without giving away your solution, are you able to help me understand what you mean?
          ie: the order of colors as they come up in ttotc; sleuthing them out of the poem; or finding them at hidey spot?

          • Fyi, if Fenn had a red/green genetic color deficiency he would not have been accepted to flight school. I know this because I was rejected for this reason and I had to obtain a waiver for it on my private pilot’s license.

          • Good thoughts, 42. I have a few more I’ll post after work. Like the crimson coat poem and gray staying home weaving, etc.

            I don’t think Forrest is color blind. I’m not sure how it was back when he was in the AF, but my ex got turned down from pilot training because he was color blind.

          • 42,
            Male gender missing X chromosome is incompatible with life so probably not that. There are X linked recessive genetic mutations responsible for color blindness so maybe that is what you meant.

          • Yeah, Naught, they are ignoring this. I remember that you can’t even have fillings in your teeth to get into the advanced flight programs. Colorblindness is a real hazard for a jet pilot.

    • Hi slurbs, I noticed your comments regarding ttotc book appearing forest green. I find that so interesting, and wondered if you see green grass as green or as brown?

      Are you able to help me understand your color anomaly?

  52. f never said that it was not important. He said that one was a typo, and that he would let you decide which.(paraphrased)

  53. All below is IMO.

    ‘So hear me all and listen good’

    Everyone would get this clue if Forrest had said ‘now listen up and listen good’.

    The answer to this clue is ‘Rooster Cogburn. The quote is from the film ‘True Grit’.

    Forrest has provided a lot of confirmatory information for this answer:

    On the searcher blogs (Scrapbooks) Forrest published a long email about Rooster Cogburn from a searcher who had a pet rooster called ‘John Wayne’.

    A book called ‘Rhymes from a Round up Camp’ highlighted extensively by Forrest in his book collecting video was written, as Forrest says, by Wallace ‘Coburn’ and illustrated by Charles ‘M’ Russell . The ‘M’ stands for ‘Marion’, John Wayne’s real first name.

    In ‘Rhymes from a Round up Camp’ there is poem called ‘Yellowstone Pete’s only Daughter’.. In Forrest’s copy of the book he points out a cartoon by Russell drawn inside the front cover, about Yellowstone Pete. Yellowstone Pete’s real life name was Goldie ‘Marion’ Robins.

    The cover of Too Far to Walk has a shadowed figure on the front sleeve. This (hat wearing) shadow figure fits the profile of Edward Curtis the photographer who specialised in studying native Americans. The native Americans called him ‘Shadow Catcher’. Curtis’s middle name was ‘Sheriff’. As Forrest said ‘Only the shadow knows’.

    For the rest of the answers :

    http://treasurehuntsolution.blogspot.co.uk/

    The White Knight.

    • WK, you never answered my questions from your last post.

      Here’s an add on question to this post. Are you using the Book as a Must have, to solve the poem? If so, then would you say the poem is not solvable without the book?

      I’m asking you … per your time and effort to type your post… as all i see is anything and everything used to come to a solve and no poem backing.

      If you wish not to answer… that’s fine as well. Just seems like a waste of time to go to another site[s], post all this and not answer Questions.

      Is there another reason for doing this?

      Dang… there I go again with yet another question…

      • if you are near the end then you must be confident seeker . why havn’t you already got the chest?

    • dude,

      jmo… but I think the secret meaning to this statement is, pay attention

      btw- where does warm waters halt this time?

      thanx for another history lesson, very informative. keep up the good work, pip-pip cheerio and all that…

  54. Uh oh, are the servers starting to melt?
    Btw, dal, what is your latest ticker say?

    • jd-
      Nah…the old traffic-o-meter needle is pretty steady..
      We haven’t seen any media influence in awhile..
      Summer doldrums..we are below 7,000 hits per day right now and I believe we are approaching 5.5million all time hits..
      I think we’ll see something when the CBS story comes out..
      And the Travel Channel piece should push us up to near capacity too, but I don’t know when that is coming out.

      • Thanks Dal! I’m honored to be a contributing member… keep up the excellent work .. you too, Goofy

  55. Better be wearing your helmets if you don’t want to get hit with something useful…it’s gonna get ugly..lol! 😉

  56. I agree that it is difficult but not impossible and that the playing field is as level as possible. In the California article he mentioned one thing that may have given him an advantage in life – spending time, regularly scheduled – thinking. In our current culture of speak first and think later (Twitter like), we spend a lot of wasted time. It might be better to think first. I believe the requirement of “thinking/thought” is what makes the field level. There is no experience or tools that is going to give anyone an advantage if they do not have the ability or time to think first. Perhaps canasta is a good idea! For me, the real treasure was having something on which to focus my thoughts rather than my thoughts demanding a focus on past nightmares. The additional treasure would be to actually finish and see the chest. This “chase” gave me the idea that I could continue directing my thoughts with other puzzles, an activity that helps me get pleasure out of the days and nights. While many have gained an appreciation for nature, I appreciate a “new” activity in life as well as the familiar being out in nature. I am grateful. Soon my favorite time of the year will be here – the autumn – I love to sit, view the colors, listen to the sounds of nature, and dream. It is the most quiet time of year after the busy summer and before the holiday bustle. Quiet is very important to me – and in the autumn I do not need to wear my ear muffs to block noise as much.

    • Kathryn,
      I agree with your “think first, speak later”,
      It is, however, as a human, extremely difficult to do whilst containing excitement! But I do try; in marketing, if you do not have the ability to listen, you will fail. I saw a revolving door in the business, and it truly is surprising to me the classroom ethics these behaviors must have derived from…

      At any rate, kathryn, I loved your post…I love autumn, and quiet, as well. 🙂

      • Business counts on things that personal life does not. Business and marketing count on “quick” and “now”. I think ff mentioned that he would take time to think before beginning the day. Imagine a business or sales saying something like, “sure, think it over and come back to purchase”. Just think it is different and personal life counts on thinking and business counts on immediate gratification. Thanks for the thoughts, Mindy. I guess thinking first meant before physical search and not before speaking of ideas/brainstorming — in regards to treasure hunting.

        • Hmmm. Not every business or every person “in business” counts on the quick and now of marketing and selling. Sales revenue and time-to-market are important, but its been my experience that important factors are also trust, reliability / accountability, collaboration and integrity built over time with clients, vendors, parnters/colleagues, investors and other stakeholders especially spouse / family for a family-business.

          • Gotta listen to the bandit… 🙂

            Without a Paddle (2004) Played by Burt Reynolds…
            Del Knox: Well then think before you talk!

  57. Dal: Have noticed a lot of folks talking about Firehole River in Yellowstone Park. Didn’t Forrest Fenn once state it was not located in Yellowstone? Of course, if it is located near or on the Madison River, the majority of that river flows through West Yellowstone in Montana. Thanks, Phil

      • I have looked all along the Madison River and all along the Firehole River. I don’t believe either is a place he hid the treasure. There is just too much vehicle traffic and possibly foot traffic, that he could have manage to get in and out without being seen. Still believe it is hid in New Mexico. Has to be off a side road that allowed access without being seen.

        • Phil, I like your way of thinking; being close to a road. I too have searched the Madison and Firehole thinking the same thing. But I keep forcing myself to remember even along those heavily traveled areas there are fleeting, wonderful, times when another soul cannot be seen.

          To me his “with my treasures bold” statement could mean he went “in there” right in front of God and everybody else like he had good sense. Just walked right past everyone with millions in gold and jewelry; which is why we need to “tarry scant with marvel gaze” and “just take the chest and go in peace”. It may be very difficult to get the chest out of “in there” without being seen. This could be one of the reasons he knows it hasn’t been found.

          For Wolfie just in case there’s any question about my wording; the above statement is absolutely, without any doubt, unequivocally, only my opinion.

          • Goofy,
            Basically agree with most of this. Since we know there is no human trail in close proximity (paraphrased) I believe that he could have traversed some busy people areas to access someplace that is generally out-of-view but perhaps not out of hearing distance.

            I think it’s been generally agreed that each trip from the car was probably not over 2 miles and that IMO would be supportive of this theory.

            I can’t see it being right next, or in full view to a road or heavily fished river.

          • I agree colokid. Which is why it takes so long to thoroughly search an area.

            For instance…along the Madison which is not a deeply canyoned river through the park and to Hebgen Lake..and the east side of that river just before it leaves the park is very open and takes many, many days of searching to cover thoroughly…If the clues take you to that area, don’t be expecting to adequately search the area in a few hours…

            There are plenty of places to park all along the west side of the river, then you cross the river and expect to spend many days looking back there within two miles of where your car was parked…no trails but game trails after you move away from the river.

            But this is not the only active location that takes days and days to thoroughly search, in my mind..

            So I am skeptical when folks go to an area like that and “thoroughly” search it in a day. I wonder how they can do it. Perhaps it is because they walk so much faster than I do…Maybe I take too much time to search an area..Maybe I need more coffee…lol…

          • dal,
            Very true. With the virtually limitless number of places to stash a package this small in open country, it doesn’t seem credible that searchers can actually cover/clear huge areas with sufficient thoroughness. IMO you really have to be heading for a very small specific place not a general area.

            I guess we have to hope Forrest wasn’t kidding when he said the clues would lead us directly to it. I’m still puzzled how you do that in just 9 nine clues. But I’m in not alone there.

          • Colokid,

            Precisely does sound very direct. So for me searching a two mile area should be out of the question [ at least in theory ]. you may have to travel that distance but know before hand where your going.

            Or could the directions of travel using the poem have information on the ground that is also needed to solve the poem.

            When the Question of, is the Blaze is in the poem or only on sight. Fenn took 30 mins of thought to decline answering.

            So if he blaze is possibly both [ by assumption ] then are the other clues similar. Not just a physical place to walk through but something seen. Even using the idea all you need is the poem, it still makes sense otherwise you don’t know what to look for at each location.

            We’re missing something… That is what I’m searching for at the moment.

          • We’re missing something ……Amen to that Seeker.

            When I come up with a location I know on the map it looks like a speck, but in the real world it could take days or weeks to thoroughly search the area, like Dal and Colokid were saying. What looks to be a promising solution on the computer screen is a complete dud in the real world.

            So where do we find what we are missing…..The books, SB’s, paintings, other books, etc. or on the ground?

            Where do we gain the wisdom to see the blaze? Or the other clues for that matter.

          • A different perspective on the poem. A knowledge of names. The ability to see the instructions and follow them exactly.

            Remember the test they gave us in elementary school to display the importance of following directions. And the first one was to wait for the teacher to tell you to pick up the pencil?

            And what did 99% if the class do? They picked up their pencils and wrote their name on the paper.

            Because it was ingrained in them to not forget their name.

          • Goofy: I’m not certain who replied to my comment about vehicle and foot traffic along the Madison and Firehole rivers, but whoever responded with the comment about being bold is probably right on the money. It is most likely in the firehole area. I’m certain warm waters halt where there is a confluence of rivers, which in the case would be the Madison and Firehole rivers. Firehole is a large area. There’ll be no paddle up your creek, Just heavy loads and water high. With that stated, it is probably below the Firehole Falls. Just saying. Can’t paddle back up because of the boulder and high water.

          • Seeker,

            You refer to this:, “Can the blaze be pre-determined by the poem or can it only be determined at the search area?- becky
            Becky, you are a rascal to ask that question and I have been sitting here for about fifteen minutes trying to decide what to say. Well, it has been thirty minutes now and I think I’ll pass on the question. Sorry.f”

            I was pondering that very statement as well and I think there is information there. It would seem that he could have answered one way or the other without a big reveal but he couldn’t…why you ask?

            He has to be careful how he answers because he tells us that he doesn’t provide misinformation.

            If he answers “no” to predetermined then he kind of narrows down where we have to look…he wants to keep it broad and vague. By the same token if he says yes to predetermined that might be a lie.

            If it could be predetermined from the poem why not just say so….that’s where we expect to find all the other clues. This is why I suspect he can’t say it…it would not be true.

            If he answers no to on-the-ground that might be a lie. If he answers yes that really narrows the options and suddenly those that scour GE can give up that activity. Again, he’s trying to keep it vague.

            My conclusion is that the best scenario for him needing to give no information is that you have to be on the ground. IMO

          • Another way to look at his pass on an answer is that he did not understand the question…
            Now I admit that his first sentence initially makes it sound like he understood exactly what she was asking..
            But maybe not…”predetermined” is an odd word..think about the difference between PREdetermined and determined. Can anything actually be predetermined…or is everything simply determined…?
            Semantics…I know…but it’s what Forrest is good at..
            In my opinion Forrest gave it a pass because the word “predetermined” baffled him…
            How can anything be predetermined?? What does that mean??
            If she had used the word “determined”…I am betting she might have gotten an answer from him..

          • One major thought that comes to my mind Goofy is, how the poem is used. Yep, been told to re-read it so many time that even i don’t want to hear it anyone, just like fenn doesn’t want to repeat it as well.

            But in the attempt to see what we’re missing is the poem as not so much many places spread over a large area but a single one spot location. I have not heard anyone solve to indicate as much, even my own.

            I don’t believe anything that can be gone soon.. such as trees, roads, buildings, rest area etc. are involved. But most of those solves have them as well. I’m not knocking anyone. I don’t think the poem is read as I-90 as a clue etc. But that is just me.

            I’m trying to decipher by what they say to what has been told and narrow down possibilities… on how to read the poem.

            And the one that pops in my head is a single spot. First clue[s] take you there and even if the seven remaining are ALL physical place they are there as well.

            As you stated the other day. Many and More are getting the first clue[s] correct… why are they ALL going past, walking by, the other seven? Doesn’t say much for all us brilliant solvers. and that is not a degrading remark… it’s a serious observation. Are we looking too big?

            is the 500′ … 200′ the possible total area of the clues ?

            I have said in the pass, I am not obsess with the gold , a word that is key, etc.

            but I will say I am obsess with “Important possibility” … shoot me just shoot me now!

          • colokids,

            absolutely… and i’ll add if answered it would {possibly} aid in a clue. And that is one thing he has repeatedly stated he would not. Hints all over sure but not one of the 9 clues.

            the interesting part was a 30 min time window comment. why wait so long and tell us such? does it help at all…i don’t know, but does raise an eyebrow.

            Anyways i should get back to banging my head against a cement wall.

          • Seeker,
            Not sure the time frame is relevant. To me it just sounds like hes saying “I’ve spent too much time trying to figure out how to answer it without giving something away so I’ll just pass.”

            dal,
            I do agree that using determine may have been more clear, but predetermine is a word; “establish or decide in advance” so I don’t know why Forrest would have trouble with it.

          • colokid-
            For me there is no difference between predetermining that I need to use pencil when I write that paper and determining that I need to use a pencil when I write that paper. They both occur before the fact of writing the paper…
            I understand that both are in the dictionary..my argument is that for a wordsmith predetermining is impossible…because it is the same as determining..they both happen before the act of doing something..How can something be decided any earlier than before you do it?? There are no degrees of determining..

            In fact, they are synonyms for each other…
            http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/predetermine

            It is a quirk of the English language..a colloquialism…we accept these words in everyday speech but to a wordsmith like Forrest the they are nonsense..
            Here is another example of what I would call Fenn Wordsmithing..
            I had a discussion with a Fenn family member about this years ago..
            I was told that Forrest would never say, “They walked in thru the door”, because you cannot walk thru a door. Instead he would say “They walked in thru the doorway”. Most people would not think twice about saying door..rather than doorway..but the fact is that a door is a hard object to walk thru, while a doorway is not.

            Anyway..It was just an idea…my reason why he answered that question the way he did..
            I use this kind of caution constantly when considering what Forrest says and writes and I know most others do as well..
            I simply think this is just another example of him carefully considering how to answer a question about predetermine…when a wordsmith would never use that word and believes it is impossible to predetermine anything..

          • Seeker… I am with you on the time thing… Why did he have to think soo long? If you think about it that is a really long time to think about one question…

            Hope your head is OK Seeker… I myself can’t bang my head against anything because everything here is padded… Lol

          • Colokid…..I’ve always leaned toward your opinion, that you have to be there to figure it out. So I’ve been there; lots, and lots, and lots, of times. I try very hard not to “predetermine” (Dal??) what I’m looking for. To see what’s in front of me, to see everything in front of me. Amazing what you can see if you are actually looking. It seems I have found everything except the chest. We aren’t going to stumble over the chest; but could we stumble over the blaze, like he did the grave marker. Anyone else that stumbles over it wouldn’t think anything about it at all; but a searcher that stumbles over it would know what it was.

            Example: Nice spot, clues fit, easy access but secluded, no human trail, just an area of tall grass. I actually walked every square foot of some of those areas and the only thing I came across is what seems to be every species of insect on this planet that wants to devour me…..some of the tics were the size of a small dog; at least they felt that big on my back.

            Seeker, I’ve also liked your idea of all of the clues being in close proximity to each other. Maybe very close proximity.

            A vista pull out; get out of your car and bam there are all the clues staring at you. Find the blaze and walk down and get the chest. Piece of cake. All we need to know is where to start.

          • dal,
            Very interesting anecdote about Forrest. I do find it a bit curious, though, for a guy that likes to make up his own words because “people will understand what he’s trying to say”. Almost as if he wants to hold others to a different standard of word usage.

            Anyway, good cautionary tale about overthinking some of the things he says.

            Goofy/Seeker,
            I am of the opinion that the places which the clues refer to are in relatively close proximity…..let’s say within 4 miles total just for arguments sake. Many have speculated that the clues could be extremely far ranging even covering multiple states. I don’t see that as a possibility. The further apart the clues, the less likely anyone will connect them and, more importantly, the precision for directing you to a very precise location is diluted. If you think about it, 9 sentences is not a lot of information. If you waste 4 or 5 of those just getting into the right county how can you direct someone to a 10″ box?

          • I just emailed him with the same question, would you be willing to buy it back and restart the chase. No replies as of yet.

          • Tim: It could be he parked along Firehole Drive and walked down without being noticed. However, I believe there is still a lot of foot traffic in that area. I have also read that the area below the falls is pretty steep. Unless the wise Mr. Fenn had been there before, which he probably has and knew exactly which route he was going to take, it may not be the right area. I have visualized him carrying a fly rod, with a backpack, so if he was seen, whoever would think he was just another fisherman. I believe Dal said he had searched that area and found nothing, not even the blaze. However, if I had just one more week of vacation time, I would be making a trip to search around the Firehole Falls. Fenn said when he returned to his car, he did not see another person around. He could have placed it there. Won’t know unless someone finds it.

          • Also on the issue of the blaze, imho, if you figure out a clue in the poem then the blaze is mentioned in the poem. If you do not figure this out then you would need to be boots on ground to recognize the blaze and even then, you will not know what you are looking for.

          • if someone found the treasure and went to Forrests, what do you think he would do? I am sure the authorities would be all over it in a flash wouldn’t they?

          • really? but wouldn’t the authorities want to know where you found it so they can try and lay claim to it…assuming it was found on public lands?

          • Well, if it is his, and I return it, then buy it from him… It would be taxed as capital gains. If it was found and claimed, it would be a treasure trove, therefore regular earned income. I’m hoping Forrest would accept my offer…

          • JB and rovrumrebel – (and Dal) being relatively new to the chase, has there been much talk somewhere on this blog about the legality of finding indulgance – what one would do with it immediately after it was found? I’ll not put any more thoughts I have on this matter here, so as not to hijack this thread, but I am curious as to what others know and have opinions about concerning this subject.

          • A searcher had asked Forrest if he would buy the treasure and his reply was yes but hurry up and find it. Not an exact quote but that was the jist of it.

    • WELL DUH Alex……why else would you be on a treasure hunting website. Hey Dal got another genius here.

      Sorry, I apologize; Seeker tells me I should show my kinder gentler side. WAIT! That was my kinder gentler side; I didn’t nuke you for making a duh statement.

      Anyway, welcome to the site and good hunting.

        • Just remember Alex…no one here has the treasure, so don’t write their ideas in your “expert’s facts” book! Always go with your gut, the poem, the facts, Google Earth and/or a good map. Ideas should be used as building blocks. And don’t let anyone shoot your ideas down! To you they are flowers, to others , they are weeds. And if someone says they searched an area, they COULD have walked right by it, not realizing the significance of where there were at! Read Fenn, know Fenn, dream Fenn. But most of all, have fun, faith in yourself and…believe! Good luck!
          ¥ Peace ¥

  58. Wow. Tons of great poem and Fennism fits at the Buffalo Bill Center in Cody.

    – Braun Gardens
    – Paintings of warm waters
    – Natural history display with markers of feet levels
    – Display of forest fires with a tree from Deception Pass
    – Important literature in the lower level
    – A display in the library that includes a game called Yellowstone Treasure Quest

    Clue “fits” are all over the place.

    If I had more time, I might consider this place to have the solution.

    • If it is there, there is one place I would definitely check. It still remains high on my list of possibilities. And only one other person knows of this spot. It’s the one spot I just haven’t been able to share yet. Or maybe I have, on an impulse. I can’t remember. Lol.

      • Hi, Mindy. I’d really like to go to the Buffalo Bill Center one day and search around. I’ve never been there. I know that Bob used to search there…in and around the museum. It would be really cool if Forrest announced that he was going to be there some time so some of us could meet him there. I imagine they roll out the red carpet for him when he shows up. He has made some wonderful contributions to history.

  59. I had just posted my E-Town solve and the hospital net kicked me off!
    I’ll try again. Darn that took a few to type. Goofy must have an extended nuke button… lol

    This solve took me to Elizabeth Town, NM.
    (Note: I’m no spoiler or fake. I just wanted to share what I had worked so hard on. I’m doubtful I’ll be able to make it back.)

    1.) wwwh… the Rio or Red River.
    2.) Take the canyon down… Moreno valley.
    3.) Put in below the hoB… Could mean the Moreno Valley or Creek, but at this time I was stuck on blue as to police as brown is to the Forestry. I like the BSA and Forestry which both share Baldy Mountain, Colfax County, NM.
    4.) No place for the Meek… might have to enter a cave or abandon mine!
    5.) …drawing nigh… Left, near. I might be getting close?
    5.) No paddle up… in a cold wet cave. Many of these old caves, adits and mines were created by water flow/creeks! A friend once suggested letting someone else go first. They said they were always banging their heads and would most often crawl into a cold puddle of yuck. Letting someone else go first… might help to stay dry!
    6.) Just heavy loads/lodes and water high… might mean there is gold in there or carrying the box out…. may be heavy… crawling thru water and bat guano… would be tough… yuck. There might be a gold vein above my head but I should prob leave it alone…right? Water high… may be a ref. to being careful in a mine and checking the water levels?
    7.)…blaze… the box??? Perhaps if I’ve been wise and found the box/blaze… I’ll dance a jig, (Tarry scant) and check out the contents of the box (Marvel gaze)… maybe use the flashlite to read what f has written in the jar? Time to take the box to SF to see f… 8.) I best be quiet and careful…and leave in peace. But darn there is a gold vein in the ceiling above me… I best leave it alone.
    My quest to cease?
    9.) f gets braclet, I get title? Idk I’m stuck on believing the last two stanzas are confirmation, contract or proof that I had earned it.

    Not too difficult but who knows? Now for some of the alleged hints or ideas I have to support this solve.
    First, the drawing in the TTOTC, the Crescent or Waning Moon… Waning, maybe old English…??? I think lumber and mills could be in play, but not sure… For this solve, I like the Native American symbol for a cave, a crescent moon… IDK.

    Second is f’s colonial pic, suggestion of land grants, and frogs. All lead to this area.

    Third and best… f at one time showed us an Ivory bird that he had named Minerva. I thought the bird resembled a Grouse… and below my area is Grouse Gulch. Furthermore, someone once posted under the same name as the mine’s name…only once!
    I should say the whole time I was researching this solve, it was pulling me a bit east, Chief Ouray, Ute Park, The ATSF, Cimarron, even Springer. Interesting, it was around this period that I thought there might be a theme to the Poem… perhaps in regard to Mother Earth?
    So, no matter which direction I’m headed, I stay flexible. My thinking was to be able to look in several spots. If one fails try another!
    Next, I’ll share why we were at Nambe.

    Again sorry about the typing… I’m a bundle of nerves. Smiles!

    • Mark it wasn’t me…..I promise, really. And if the network admin there ask me any questions like who’s using up their resources and work time posting here. I KNOW NOTH ING…..Mark who? Never heard of him. 🙂

      Thanks for sharing……You are searching in a very popular area. Were you within 500 feet of the treasure? Did you get the first two clues right and go right past the others? Those thoughts could make a fella go crazy.

      If you want to write up your complete solution and send it to Dal along with pictures if you have any; we’ll be happy to give you your own page for discussion. After all the hard work it deserves a page all it’s own in my opinion. If you rather not that’s fine, looking forward to hearing the rest.

      • Thanks Goofy, but I talk too much already. I just thought I’d share my different takes on the poem… those that Ive conjured up in these past few years. My imagination run a muck.
        Also today, I got better news! I’ve been reduced to a stage 3b instead of 4. Perhaps I’ll beat this crap and be back in the hunt in no time. It happens!

        Mark H. Missing the Chase

  60. Naugt, In support of your statement about Fenn, color blindness and flight school, I concur. I myself tried to go back in after Nam, passed all test, physical etc. The last part of the test was eyes and the last part of the eye exam was color blindness. I failed as I knew I would, but I presented a letter from an opthomalogist that said I was o.k…. the Air Force and Navy both said no way for pilot’s training due to color blindness. I told ff this story at the Collected Works get-together last year and he remarked “color blindness does not keep you from flying”. Didn’t want disagree about something I had experienced first hand. I could only surmise that in his day maybe color blindness was not a major issue as it was in mine.

    • Radcrad, understood. Color blindness can keep you out of a fighter, but with a waiver of demonstrated ability you can keep flying as a civilian. Biggest issue is mainly night flight and recognition of landing signals. I had to sit in the cockpit ofa Cessna 172 on the runway and name the commands the tower was giving me with the light signal gun to get my waiver.

  61. Thanks everyone for your kind assistance with colors, colorblindness.
    @inthechaseto, here is my take on colors in the poem (still not sure what to do with all, only a few) ur=light gold of uranium color; azure=blue asures treasure (from torquoise beads); white (german weiss/wise) = oo blaze or rocks; brown=terra/earth or other, red ties or rope; tarry=black worked rock or soot, tar; verde=green (possible patina on chest); tin=gray/silver; uv=purple/violet

    • 42,

      I looked back over my notes and I found this:

      • If you’ve been wise and found the blaze
      o wise and = wizen, weisen,
      hefeweizen = white beer = have been wise and

      However, I have no clue association with this. I just thought it odd you and I were close on “wise”.

      • thanks q1. clever on your part. maybe beer plays in somewhere – “take a six pack along” or a keg to celebrate!

        • I have a whole list called Phonetics. That just happened to be on there.

          I wish beer was the theme!! 🙂

          Scott W

          • rovrumrebel,

            I don’t see this either. I was just responding to the previous post and submitted my phonetics as a comarison.

            I even stated that I found no clue here.

            Scott W.

    • The end of Forrests rainbow, as you read the book he walks you through the colors of his rainbow to the end. Find the last color and you will find the chest. Between the red green tea, brown lunch bag and ………. You get the picture

      • “So i wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure.”

        This maybe the most Important or confusing piece to me. …Will lead to the end of my rainbow… Is this just a whimsical usage of rainbow or an important factor to the poem?

        The book is of memories ~ important, meaningful, educational, interesting, etc. memories. Is Rainbow a must use? I asked this question in all seriousness as we have been told all the information to solve the clues are in the poem… but the quote tells of clues that will do just that. So is Rainbow important / needed to the clues?

        • Seeker, this is probably a good example of how we see things differently. You see a clue in the rainbow statement. You could be right and there are many people that agree with you. Rainbows in the waterfalls, the rainbow arch of a fly rod, etc. etc.

          I see Fenn waxing poetically like he does a lot of times. The end of his rainbow is his special place; which is also where the treasure is. That’s it, no clue.

          What you see as a magical connection leading you to a solution, I see as clutter that needs to be cleared away to get to a solution.

          If we keep banging heads we might actually figure this thing out one of these days. Or maybe not. 🙂

          • Actually no I don’t see it as a clue. My curiosity was peaked when i first read it and asked why put it with what appears to be instructions that tell there are nine clues to be understood.

            Rainbow by meaning is Dreams and Happiness. Simple enough to understand the place may have that affect. but strange to place it with what is in the poem to be solved.

            I agree it is more whimsical than clue. But I’m still looking for that dang Important possibility.

          • “I see Fenn waxing poetically like he does a lot of times. The end of his rainbow is his special place; which is also where the treasure is. That’s it, no clue.” – Goofy

            Just a suggestion Goofy, if you are the advocate and policeman that enforces the use of “IMO”; then I feel that statement requires a IMO. As you often say – “Why is that so hard?” 😉

          • Sorry Wolfie, I thought it was clear from my wording I was talking about our opinions, Seekers and mine……..

            But just to be clear; all of the above statement is my humble opinion.

            I’ll try to be clearer for you from now on so there will be no question that it is only an opinion….Oh, this statement is also OMO (only my opinion).

        • Pot of gold at the end of a rainbow is a pretty well worn metaphor and perhaps to obvious if it was placed intentionally….and we’ve been warned that hints were not placed intentionally.

          IMO not a clue/hint unless one could show a more direct tie into the poem.

    • If I was to split hairs, I’d say Black is not a color and same goes for White, as both of them don’t have specific wavelengths.
      But I’m not that kind of person so I won’t say anything 😉

    • Those of you talking about colorblindness, something that I noticed long ago…. on inside cover of TTOTC the id card says Forrest has blue eyes, but in TFTW chapter 10 page 50 his first drivers license says his eyes are green.

      Fred Y.

      • @Find Y et al….wasn’t the license from Atlanta a fake? Also, another ID states even a third eye color….. All this talk about colors I keep thinking about a a traffic light or 4 way intersection….IMO thanks for sharing tons of good thoughts coming out, some ones bound to find the TC soon!

        • Cholly,

          Do you mean Amelia Earhart’s grey eyes, or another one for Forrest?

          Fred Y,

        • And Fenn said Sloane died waiting for the light to change…(implying street light or sun light?) but the obit I read (several years ago) said he died on the steps of his hotel. I never bothered to search for clarity.

  62. @ Rovrumrebel, that’s a very good question. I can’t say that the poem is signalling colors. However, TTOTC by it’s intentional brown & gold pallet begs the question, “Why the lack of bright colors – other than gold on the cover?”

    Forrest is very clever and intentional in all that he does IMO. He’s a gifted story teller and strategist who wants searchers to think, to ask, “who, what, where, when, why, how.” Unfortunately, most just ask WHERE, and that leaves us fortuneless. Additionally, he chose to articulate stories. through carefully selected photos and illustrations which are predominately sepia or gray shades with black and white.

    For the poem purists, (without books) ask yourselves, “Why home of Brown?” He could have chosen many other ways to describe that location. Why did Forrest choose the color brown to dominate his poem?

    • 42,

      that is assuming Brown is a color. in the context of that sentence Brown being capitalized and the use of home which may indicated habitation. why do you think indicates / dominates Brown a color?

      • Ok I’ll add you stated the book cover. so I guess my question should read why is that Color important?

        • Seeker, I suppose each searcher has to determine if it’s important to their solution and why.

          I was attempting to throw out ideas for discussion which didn’t involve verbally throwing brown at folks today. The buffalo chips were a flyin between blogs.

          • Great now i have to solve your clues…lol

            I’m picking up what your putting down.

            So a straightforward question. what is your take on the Important possibility comment.

            Out of all the comments, statements, quotes, clues, hints, pics, birds, dogs, hats and griz. This one statement is needling me.

          • Just to add to your dilemma —- you might check out the colors of TFTW too.

            On the cover is green – Oh the luck of the Irish. 🙂 Wish I had a cute little funny leprechaun to show me the way.

    • It has been mentioned by another searcher from the Sloane book 17 Dollars Per Square Inch that “Brown is a neglected color,” but I speculate Brown is more likely an endearing inner circle term for a group of people in additionl to being a neglected color.

  63. Inthechase, bring out Fenn’s leprechaun who dances around the chest! Now I’m craving a bowl of Lycky Charms. Make sure he gets along with Norse Valkyries too.

    Mindy pointed out in an interesting post on her site; the name Fenn could be a derivative of the Norwegian name Kven (Kvenland).

    Seeker, I’m not sure about the color angle but my guess is that f’s eyes perceive color differently. In answer to your other question, f’s own answer indicated his mother. I take him at his word… At least 85% of the time ;). Another strong contender is Clovis man & the ice free corridor. My solve uses both angles because of supporting info from both TTOTC & TFTW. And yes, I could have found the place with the poem, map/ge (no bk).

    Imo – the biggest mistake any searcher could make is to not adequately study the man Forrest Fenn. He hid his treasure in a place “very dear” to him “or he couldn’t have done it.”

    How can you determine what and where are dear to Forrest if you don’t try to understand him, his passions, and his life’s work??

    • 42 –

      I totally agree about studying the man – Fenn. I pretty much agree with you on everything. I think you are smart and really hope you are not in my spot. 🙂

      I’m at my spot now and the ground game is so flipping hard – you would not believe it. I think I am making it hard somehow – but just cannot figure out the last clue. AArrrrrrrh.

      I am thinking now – it has something to do with the shadow and a time of day = which would also be a certain month.

      Any ideas on the shadow and how that info would help me right now?

    • I have Fenn’s Lazaro book and it’s printed in browns and sepias as well. If other books are, maybe its a personal aesthetic statement. Browns are easy on the eyes and in an intangible sense, ‘warmer’ than black and white (the universal metaphor for absolute definition). I wonder why no one ever said: warm waters don’t halt. Too obvious?

    • Forrest hopes that the person who finds the chest will be “invested,” which to me means emotionally invested.

      Of course we’ve all spent $$ on the chase but as the saying goes: People first, then dogs, then money, then things.

      Cats make me sneeze so I didn’t include them.

  64. Inthechase, solstices may play in; or simply shadow play. Watch carefully for shadows cast on rocks/boulders or that the rocks themselves cast in your area (during the hours of 11 am – 1:00 pm.) Look for 3 white rocks, or unusually shaped boulders.
    Hopefully it’s a sunny day. Is there any old debris or rocky out cropping?

    • Inthechase, take lots of photos of the entire area to look through after. you’ll see things you didn’t see you when you were on site, especially all angles of boulders if you are looking for shadows.

      • Oh my god – I think I figured it out – maybe just maybe !!!

        Wish me luck – I’ll be nice to all of you.

        Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn’t do than by the ones you did do.

        So throw off the bowlines.

        Catch the trade winds in your sail.

        Explore, Dream, Discover. (Mark Twain)

        42 –

        Thanks for the reminder of photos – I am shaking right now.

  65. Inthechase, keep me posted. I’ll try and help you. If he’s employed shadow casting – like in fly fishing – not easily done. If cloudy, you may have to simulate a shadow with a flash lite and another person. Pretty certain 6/24 was last solstice. Can you use those numbers?

    If you see anything resembling a T marking walk off 20 feet radius to search. If 3 boulders measure between them and look at north rock. Absolutely get low, to have a kids view and leave no stone unturned. look for juniper bushes, old fire pit or anything foundational, stone. Remember tall rye grass is where catcher was found.

    • Good luck ITC. I would add to look for a seam. And be prepared to lie flat on your stomach to see it.

    • There is an app called LightTrac. It displays shadows, sunlight and level of the sun for different times of the day for days of year. I use it for photography but thought it might be helpful for purposes mentioned above.

      • I would agree that the shadow pic dal took might represent a specific time of day. Perhaps if someone is in the right spot at the right time of day that shadow might lead in the correct direction. Guessing!

        • fenntreasure-
          Since Forrest was not there when I took that photo and since he did not direct me to an exact location to take that photo nor did he tell me a time to take that photo it is unlikely that the position of anything in that photo directs anyone to anything…in my opinion.

          By the way, I have never been asked to keep any secrets regarding this photo. The location it was taken or the circumstances around how/when/where it was taken. I have written about all of this in the past on this very blog.

          It is difficult for me to see how knowing the location, or other elements of the creation of that cover photo could possibly hold any clue since Forrest did not know any of those things himself. However, the general knowledge that Forrest had this exact composition in mind and sent me out to capture it might say something about Forrest and how he sees himself and the chase.

  66. Inthechase, if all else fails, here are BOTG ideas from f’s books and blogs:

    1.Look at 18 inches up from the ground. For the treasure or a final blaze. That’s the height he hung by parachute in the canopy of jungle.
    2. Shake the trees, and look up for anything hidden in the trees.
    3. Be thorough in looking underbrush and under rocks, logs
    4. South east corners
    5. Round flat stone on top of ground
    6. Where can you smell pine needles?
    7. Can you see animals?
    8. Look for Red earth or charcoal layers in bank cut always
    9. Forrest would be a master of camouflage – so think forest camo.
    10. Metal detector
    11. Garmin device – shows coordinates
    12. Two sets of eyes are better than one.
    13. Be wise oo, Y, numbers, !
    14. Think mirror image, upside down etc.
    15. Chest could be verde green patina or he may have preserved the bronze color. It could be wrapped in skins or furs and cached as mountain men did.
    16. Bullseye on tree stump in mountain man chapter had three holes, which resemble a triangle, and marble game

    BEST TO YOU!!

    • 42 –

      I think all of the above is right on – THANK YOU and even if I don’t find it – thanks to you and all who have helped me along this awesome path. You all know how brilliant Forrest is – your not gonna believe how I think he did this. Just amazing.

    • If you are searching in a national park or other protected areas DO NOT TAKE A METAL DETECTOR WITH YOU

    • 42, thanks for sending this list, very interesting. Am curious on thought patterns behind #5 (round rock) and the #8 (red earth/charcoal layers). Thanks in advance for any insight you would be willing to share on these.

  67. The mention of $17 a Square Inch got me to opening the book again. I had forgotten how f and Sloane spent their time, “We spent a lot of time together, sometimes with him as co-pilot in my plane as flew at treetop level to Taos or Oklahoma City”
    At that level special places might easily be discovered.

  68. Luviu, of course you are correct that black is the absence of color.

    When discussing light or rainbows [as opposed to pigments] white is the presence of all color. using a prism or layered color filters one can mix all colors of the light spectrum and achieve white light.

    Because I see wise as a possible ‘white’ in the poem it’s feasible in my solution that a blaze could be white. Charcoal drawings and “tarry” are black and may represent a void/cave/hole without light or charcoal ashes at the site. All just my reasoned conjecture.

  69. Inthechaseto,
    Totally dig that feeling when confidence is at its height. What state are you heading to? Sounds like you know the area well. I think you could be onto something with shadows…I have a feeling we are starting to see the wood through the Forrest.

  70. Hi All,

    You can all start breathing again.

    I have just returned – no TC. I am not disappointed this time – I must be getting used to it. Back to the drawing board. We got chased out by wind, rain and very hard hail.

    I like my crow – cooked. 🙂

    • Into. I don’t think you need to eat crow. IMO, you didn’t come off as bragging, but simply excited. And that’s refreshing!

      You are super lucky to live where you can just go out and search. If you live in NM, maybe you can check a place for me. 🙂

      • Thanks Mindy,

        My hubby and I are full time Rv’ers – so we can pretty much go where we want to. We are currently near our spot where we previously lived – Colorado.

    • Never give up, right? 🙂

      Looked out my window, clear and hazy here from western fires but saw very strong storms well south, maybe where you are. Stay safe, lightning and dry forests don’t mix!

      • Naught –

        I have lived in this area for almost 20 yrs and have never seen so much rain and heavy heavy hail. At least it’s keeping the fire danger down this year. It does make those dirt roads hard to travel. We have run off the top of the mountain to avoid lightning before when we saw the clouds coming in. Lightening is a killer. No one should be in the woods during a storm.

    • Inthechaseto,
      i know you have researched a lot and I have seen that I have also crossed similuar ideas with you, so why not be excited when you hit the trail in search for the chest. I am always that way when everthing fits and my confidence level is at a high percentage. I will have to admit you had me worried because of the commitment you have put “in the chase” no poun intened, ok maybe a little. Go somewhere and have a nice meal and a refreshing drink and after regroup and with your thoughts and look for the answers you might be missing, as I am sure you will. I will be heading out myself on the 17th and also know I will be just as excited when I get to my solve area as you were. Good luck in the future. Bur

      • Bur –

        Your comment make me feel better – I guess it’s just knowing that someone else shares my deep feelings. It’s just all part of being a treasure hunter – emotions should be kept in check. I really shouldn’t have said anything – but thought this was the end.

        I hope your trip goes well on the 17th – as your journey is so much farther than mine. Best of luck to you too and thanks for being here for me.

        • New here and just read your story. Woah! Exciting. My wife and son also got stuck in lightning out looking for the tc. We high tailed it out whilst we had the chance. Better luck next time!!!

        • Lianer-
          I have been to YNP and Montanta area beside the Park, but I have been searching Colorado (as inthechaseto has) on my last three trips here From Florida. This chase gets in your blood so tell your wife to expect you not sleeping (thinking your next move on your solve and changing it every time you see something that clicks better) and researching a lot on the www. Good luck and a lot of good info flows throught here. Bur

    • Inthechaseto-
      Breathing deep again..
      Will you post some pics and a story? or how about just a couple good pics in the photo album to whet our appetites..

      • Hi Dal –

        Actually I did post a photo – one of a shoe hanging in a tree. That’s a great clue – right? It is now the shoe is gone – someone took it – not me.

        I don’t know what to do – will go to bed and try to breath again. I will see what I can do. 🙂

  71. The weight of the chest is 42 pounds…

    I think that is on purpose, not accident..

    So I was looking at locations in the rockies and came along, Flathead lake..

    Flathead lake has a 42 mile circumference…

    the largest fish caught at flathead was 42 inches long and 42 pounds(maybe it did not weigh that much, that sounds like a monster fish come to think of it…)

    Anywho, has anyone looked up or thought of looking that close to the Canadians border?

    • clues-
      Many folks have looked near Flathead. One of the early searchers lived near the lake and looked often. Others have spent a lot of time looking in and around Glacier National Park where there are warm water springs. People have also searched around Kalispell, Whitefish and Libby. But no one that I am aware of, has posted on this blog, in detail about those searches.

        • I remember Fennon Slough to the North of the lake held some attraction. But 42 is right. Those were the days before Forrest announced it was above 5K ft in elevation. You’d have to have an interest in the bumps above the lake these days..there are peaks there that go above 5K but….

      • Dal, probably the reason why, is it is such a great spot, and they will return to search more, like myself! We searched there, YS, and there abouts. My story and pics are typed, loaded and saved for when I’m through with that area. We head out soon! ¥ Peace ¥

    • Beautiful place, but Flathead Lake surface elevation is 2900 ft. Very Cool about all of the 42’s.

  72. 42 –

    Since we spoke about colors earlier today – I wondered if you know they are listed in order in the poem. I think you figured it out – if not I will tell you.

    • IntheChaseto, I found rainbow colors ordered in ttotc, but not able to find all in the poem.

      I would APPRECIATE your your help with the list very much, (and which line colors are in respectively.)

      Thanks in advance.

      • 42 –

        I do think it is the rainbow usage of colors. When I looked up the history of Rainbows – they originally were thought to be five colors and not the usual seven we use today.

        There are so many different kinds of Rainbows – it’s mind boggling – spiral ones and even a brown rainbow – but I do not think it has anything to do with HOB. Brown is a solid clue and is not going anywhere.

        It’s possible that we should all keep in mind that the rainbow is an actual circle – and the way to see that beauty – is from the air.

        Remember that Forrest said you will end up where you begin. (paraphrased).

        Thanks again for helping me yesterday. 🙂

  73. Does anyone know the exact day of Forrests birthday I know it’s in August is it the 22 ? 🙂

  74. Hey Girls 🙂

    Just going to make arrangements AGAIN for another search. Was just thinking that bracelet could be a Birthday Gift when I return it. 🙂 🙂 each time I go I feel that I get closer and closer and CLOSER. Heck what’s One more search. We love Colorado. You know just for the record I have to go at least 5 times Plus, during the summer. Waiting on that water to become shallow. So we can crawl right on In 🙂 🙂 🙂 ha ha ha how funny.

    I love the adventure 🙂

    • I know what u mean, amy! I can’t wait to go again, if I find forrest’s treasure box, that’s a plus, but I just CAN’T WAIT! Leaving 7/27. Plan to search 7/29. Got three “kids” (ages 19 and 20) with young eyes and we’re gonna do it tired! 🙂

      • We all had a “staff” meeting the other day. Had so much fun reminiscing and planning…so fun so fun so fun!

      • JD

        🙂 It’s EXCITING
        I hope and wish u a safe adventure. Good Luck. Enjoy the children. I understand about being tired. 🙂

  75. Could someone refresh my memory on the “rainbow” talk and where this is mentioned. I also am looking for a description of the bells that F is putting out there.

  76. I wish I had more vacation time coming. All this time I have thought the treasure was in New Mexico. However, I read every comment that each individual has posted and some are very interesting. Such as it would have been bold of Fenn to just park along a busy road, get out, walk in, walk back, and walk back in and out the final time. Who knows, he might have been carrying a fly rod and backpack. I think some folks are trying to read too much into the poem. His clues are straight forward, but trying to figure out the exact location isn’t. Then I think about the number of tourists and fishermen that may be in the general area and no one has stumbled upon the glorious chest. Trying to figure out whether color has anything to with it is futile. I suggest, there is water and a canyon involved, as well as a wooded area long the banks, Be careful not to fall in or you will be cold, but not brave in the wood.

    • Hi Phill –

      I can see that your water and canyon as well as a wooded area really narrows down the hunt. I’m sure we can all figure out how not to fall in. 🙂 Best of luck to you. Whew – another one bites the dust.

  77. After four abortive searches in one area this year, and with about a dozen other potential spots nagging for attention, I have begun to rethink my whole methodology. If I carried on as I have been, bankruptcy, bachelorhood and Bedlam would likely be my rewards!

    While the poem may be straightforward, I am wondering about a couple of potential twists that could indicate why no one has been able to locate the trove, despite very cogent solutions.

    Firstly, is it possible that you need to pinpoint both ends of the “rainbow” before you can uncover the hiding place? Here, I’m not talking about simply marking spots on a map and drawing a line, but physically entering one specific location to obtain the information necessary in order to move with confidence to the final resting place. This might tie in with the poem’s changes in tense.

    Secondly, could it be that where warm waters halt is actually very far away from the trove, but is linked to it in some very specific way? I know that some have discussed a similar notion before, but as far as I’m aware have not come up with a plausible link. Perhaps the twin (or even triplet) theory could come into play here… I’m being vague about this because I’m working on an idea that links the far north to places in the Rockies and am not ready to go into detail yet, as there’s more than one way to interpret the results (including, in one scenario, approaching the treasure from south of the defined search area).

    If I can’t progress further down either of these avenues, I’ll probably come back and throw out some specifics for others to chew on and spit out in disgust! Meantime, I was wondering whether either of these concepts resonate with other searchers.

    • Well there are so many possibilities that could be ? Who can get in F’s head and know exactly what he had in mind… I would guess this quest has been designed to work in many places and at several levels. One thing is certain F did a lot of work crafting the poem so don’t expect to find his treasure overnight. I would think there are at least a few good spots that are not correct but maybe part of the puzzle in a way. Didn’t the chase song say something like all roads lead to Rome or was that roam ?

        • 🙂 Thank you Amy

          Keeping on topic:
          Have any of you all used for Where warm waters halt the triple point of water which is exactly 273.16 K. Could be numbers for a highway a heading or ?

          (The number 3 occurs in the poem as some have discussed. The triple point of a substance is the temperature and pressure at which the three phases (gas, liquid, and solid) of that substance coexist in thermodynamic equilibrium.)

      • hey uken2it thanks for asking ( off topic warning) took grands kid to Galveston to test hubby grandson and me. we survived and had great time. i have cut back ( on topic) on posting because i was giving too much away and i talk too much for some bloggers. i can be emailed at wildbirberntex@gmail.com. we plan to go to NM in mid Aug. hubby arm is doing great but cant go back to work till Sept due to injury and surgery. so we go in mid Aug. grandson is reading the book and doing a lot of studying. we hope we don’t disappoint him because searching is hard and not the ocean. he knows we might not find it but he sure has his hopes.

      • LOL Amy –

        We had this little worthless flash light too and I will blame that on my hubby too.

        Where did the “laying down” come from – do you know?

      • Amy-
        I had one of those long police lights and the beam seemed to shoot for a mile but it was to big to carry and use all the time. So I switched to a small LED that uses 2 AA batteries and man that light works great for all those nooks and crannies even in the day light and it’s better the the big one. They are a little more money but worth it. Knee pads help too so you don’t have to lay down on rocks. Bur

        • Also Amy-
          A pinpoint metal detector attached to about a 3 foot stick works great for searching those areas and you won’t need the flash light until it goes off, plus you can cover a lot more area quicker then with a flashlight looking down those crannies. Pinpoint another good investment. I have a Garrett.

          Also the snake won’t be in your face. LOL. Bur

          • I thought the poem was precise. Show me in the poem where a metal detector is mentioned.

          • hello Luckygirl, hunch here. how are you im good. you ask to be shown a metal detector in the poem. that would be your look quickly down unit. invented by Gerhard Fisher. the electromagnetic waves created by the transmitter coil and the reciever coil. so, find the blaze and pull out your metal detector, your qwest to ceese. wa-la.

          • Lucky girl-
            A metal detector is a “choice” if you find it useful. I my case I have used it a lot in my searches finding things other then the chest. But if the chest is hidden in a boulder area I just run it in all the areas around, under or between others that the chest could be hidden. It will sing like crazy if the chest is with in 10 to 12 inches near it. without having to look in each nook, much faster. Bur

          • Bur –

            We take metal detectors also – but I always keep in mind – if he wrapped it in asbestos – that would prevent it from working. I don’t know if that is true or not – as it was just someone’s opinion – but he said he thought of everything.

  78. Has anyone discovered why and how robins can see the BB coming? You might want to check it out, especially with all the colors talk going on. 🙂

  79. Mindy, Inthechase, Dal, anyone.. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

    Re: metal detector use. I recall Forrest answering it would help IF you were right at the TC location.

    1. Asbestos would protect TC from fire – and – ff thought everything. So, metal detector wouldn’t help.

    Bronze melting point is 1675 F. Average surface temp of Forrest fire is 1425 degrees F or higher. I believe ff stated his TC could be scorched by fire. ‘Scorched’ not melted. Gold melting point 1948 degrees F.

    Scorched:
    adj. Dried, damaged or burnt by exposure to heat.

    I need help with …
    2. PROXIMITY – if precisely solved to X Y axis coordinates a searcher using a coordinate tracker – which are accurate within 9-15 feet – may not land exactly on the chests location. Anyone found POEM info indicating a fourth solve after youv solved 3 times to find “there”/arrived at XY ??

    • Boy Oh Boy Anna –

      Can I identify with you !!! Just when I thought I was finished about five times – I found something else. Just yesterday I thought I had it beat – and over with. Not the case.

      I found the “X” and it’s not that hard to find – the directions where explicit – and I hiked to it alone (about 2 months ago) as my husbands knee was hurt and he couldn’t make it. I was brave – as I was seeing bear scat like I’ve never seen before – and I lived in bear country for 20 years. Brown bears usually run away if they see you and I was counting on it.

      I’m not sure what the Y is that you are referring to – but dang the X was real and as I’ve said before another couple of letters are involved – but I did not find a Y.

      The only thing I can say is – keep working on it – I found “my” spot and am not finished with it or I would give it up and tell my complete solve – which at this point would be so different from all the others.

      As far as how deep he put it – I don’t know – how deep would it have to be to be protected – anyone?

      • If think I just found an answer to my question –

        According to the Avian Science Center and the Montana Natural History Center – Soil temperature after a fire can increase as deep as 16 inches.

        So how deep is a hole? Sixteen inches.

        • Forgive me itct, but can you explain how soil temperature can increase in inches?

          • Sure JD –

            I didn’t mean to say increase – but rather it will effect the temp of the soil to that depth. Sorry.

            If a fire where to burn over the land – it makes the soil hot to a depth of 16 inches.

            So the soil would be hotter at the top and decrease in temp as it got deeper. From what I read fire can effect a soils temperature for years.

            So lets say he buried the TC. To keep it safe from the ravages of fire he would have to dig 16 inches plus the depth of the TC which is 6 inches for a total of 23 inches.

          • Forest Fires and Melting Chests
            Heat rises so the hottest a fire will get is above the ground level. Like the tip of the flame on a candle burns hotter than at the wax end of the wick. A fire would be hard pressed to get hot enough to light a match 1 foot below ground level let alone melt a brass chest.
            Metal detectors may come in handy if the chest is buried or such imo

          • I should have said IMO.

            I don’t know you and you seem like a nice person, so I am sure you use good judgement, even in the heat of the chase.

            First, my definition of buried (for the purposes of this chase) is “covered in earthen material”. Not including rocks or other placed anthropogenic materials.

            I could see digging on private property with permission (be it ones interpretation of the poem or landowner agreement). At one point I thought this is what the poem hinted at ” Just bury scat with shovel says, Just take the chest and go to police”. HA!

            The national park system requires those with a backcountry permit or maybe even day hikers to bury their feces at least 9 inches in depth. So you could say that it was a coincidence after pretending that you were taking a dump.

            But really who would believe you? You also have to remember that Forrest is an honest guy and his word means a lot to him. Do you think he would want the stigmata of burying a treasure in the national park and having searchers dig it up? I think not. He really doesn’t strike me as the lying type.

            The treasure has to be found legitimately. To claim the title the finder will have had to follow the law of the land in which it is found (BLM,NPS, private, etc.). I think this makes sense (unless you are planning on keeping the find a secret with an illegitimate title).

            Maybe you found a private swath that’s favorable?

            To me the poem is also a morality tester, those who use their heart can use the poem to determine the true direction, unless the person is of course a real piece of work. The many ways the poem can be interpreted is mindboggling. At one point when I was sure it was buried at location X, I thought I could pull one over on the landowner and dig and claim the above (the poop part). Then I translated this:

            The end is ever drawing lies;
            There’ll be no paddle up your weak,
            Just heavy loads and other lies.

            More likely my guilty conscience, but if you are going to dig somewhere illegal, think about it, more times than not, digging is a tool used to try and mend a clue that doesn’t fit. Same with a metal detector. Like searching for needles in hay stacks. You should know the exact place you are headed before you even get boots on the ground so the location should come easy once you are pointed in the right direction.

            And if you do dig, get permission. It has to be legit to claim….

            Good luck. Hope you find it soon.

          • Lianer so true. Many different angles here for example tired could be tie red. Maybe he tied a red flag on a pole… who knows

          • Thanks Lianer for answering my question.

            I agree – that if it is on private property you must get permission.

            The clues are telling me how it’s secreted – I was not following that part of my solve – and I think now – I will take that at face value.

            I appreciate your help.

  80. @inthechaseto – You stated that FF said, “You will end up where you begin.” When & where did he ever say that? I know he included a poem in TTOTC that kind of maybe, indirectly, alluded to that possibility. But that’s the extent of it. So exactly where did you get that info?

    • Hi Becky from WV, I think this is the reference:

      He includes the part, “….and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started, and know it for the first time”, in his book, The Secrets of San Lazaro Pueblo.

      And in the 6 questions interview at MysteriousWritings.com he repeated it when answering question #5:

      http://mysteriouswritings.com/six-questions-with-forrest-fenn-author-of-the-thrill-of-the-chase/

      5Q) From receiving feedback on hunter’s ideas and methods about how to discover the location of the chest, do you feel confident your method in hiding the chest will eventually be understood and the chest be found? Please know, I am not asking for any specifics. My question is more like, do you still feel your poem will lead someone to the treasure?

      The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental. T. S. Eliot said:

      We shall not cease from our exploration
      And at the end of all our exploring
      Will be to arrive where we started
      And know the place for the first time

      • If I were to hike (alone and in secret) into a place I had never been, I would hike in and out and know it for the first time ending back where I started most likely. Imo

  81. Becky, in the past Forrest has quoted from one section of TS Eliot’s poem. I cannot recall that Forrest has ever stated or that TOTC poem indicates that we PHYSICALLY will start in one place and end in the same place…*other than when Forrest stated he made two trips from the car and returned to the car after hiding the chest.

    IMO – The Elliot quote applies metaphorically to Forrest’s poem on several levels. However, each searcher should draw their own inferences.

    Here is final quartet of Elliot’s little Gidding so you can read in context the words Forrest excerpted.

    With the drawing of this Love and the voice of this Calling

    “We shall not cease from exploration
    And the end of all our exploring
    Will be to arrive where we started
    And know the place for the first time.”
    Through the unknown, unremembered gate
    When the last of earth left to discover
    Is that which was the beginning;
    At the source of the longest river
    The voice of the hidden waterfall
    And the children in the apple-tree

    Not known, because not looked for
    But heard, half-heard, in the stillness
    Between two waves of the sea.
    Quick now, here, now, always–
    A condition of complete simplicity
    (Costing not less than everything)
    And all shall be well and
    All manner of thing shall be well
    When the tongues of flames are in-folded
    Into the crowned knot of fire
    And the fire and the rose are one.”

    1955 The Little Gidding is the last of T. S. Eliot’s Four Quartets. For a biographical site on Eliot and some analysis of his poetry, go to the Academy of American Poet’s website.

  82. Has anyone considered the possibility that Forrest was speaking symbolically when he said to bring a flashlight and to bring a sandwich? He speaks symbolically throughout the entire riddle but now literally when he says to bring a flashlight and a sandwich???

  83. All below is IMO.

    The answer to the clue: ‘Tarry scant with marvel gaze.’

    The phrase ‘Tarry Scant’ stands out in the poem because the two words have an odd structure within the flow of text. Their positioning suggests that Forrest has tried hard to conjoin them while maintaining the rhythm of the poem. There would have been other ways he could have achieved the same meaning, with the same poetic metering, for example ‘dwell ye not with marvel gaze’.

    Tarry Scant is rhyme for Cary Grant. The character of Cary Grant appeared once in ‘Marvel’ Earth 616 comics (with ‘marvel’ gaze) where in ‘Black Cat’s’ dream Spiderman was unmasked as Cary Grant.

    Forrest has mentioned the novel ‘Catcher in the Rye’ on many occasions. Said book influenced him to write his memoirs. The name ‘Cary Grant’ stands out as a random reference within the text of Catcher in the Rye.

    In the Moby Dickens bookshop video, Forrest in addition to mentioning ‘Catcher in the Rye’ mentions the actor ‘Clark Gable’. Clark Gable was a contemporary of Cary Grant, with the same initials.

    The answer to this clue is ‘Spiderman’.

    Spiderman was a native American trickster spirit the Lakota called Inktomi.

    I believe the line in the poem ‘look quickly down’ is there to justify inclusion of the subsequent (somewhat jarring) line ‘tarry scant’. At first glance many readers may have concluded the opposite was intended.

    I have previously indicated that some of the clues in the poem reference cartoon characters.

    After solving the above clue and the answer for the clue ‘the for home of Brown’ ( see website http://treasurehuntsolution.blogspot.co.uk/ ) I thought more answers may be related to comic, cartoon or fictional characters perhaps with native American connotations. It turned out that another couple of clues ‘were’ related to fictional characters. I will publish the answer to a new one of these clues shortly.

    I believe the use of comic characters and characters from illustrated books is the basis for what Forrest referred to when he made the statement ‘kids may have an advantage’ in relation to the Chase.

    All the answers to the clues I have published on this blog can be found together at:

    http://treasurehuntsolution.blogspot.co.uk/

    The White Knight

  84. Alright then, thank you White Knight… chivalry isn’t dead. Why the White Knight if I may ask?
    Today I’m looking into Small pox, Shamanism, Brown Bull ants, and Now… Spidee Man!
    Mark H. Running out of Juice!

  85. DON’T SLEEP IN TOMORROW
    CBS News is somewhat certain that the story they shot with Forrest last month will be on tomorrow on CBS Sunday Morning. The producer told me, “Forrest hands out a new clue.”
    It is a “news” show so the story line-up can change and Forrest’s story might be dropped if something more timely needs to air. If so they would reschedule it for a following Sunday.
    The CBS web folks are already promoting the story with a video clip:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/clues-to-a-hidden-treasure/

    If you need to know when CBS Sunday Morning airs in your town, look here:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/sunday-morning-show-times/

    After the show airs it should be available on their web site for awhile.
    and it may be tough getting on the blog right after it airs once viewers start looking for more information.

    • I am also told by Dustin Stevens (the producer of the story) that there will be additional web only content available on their website and on FaceBook. Some of it will be there before the show airs so watch for that too..

        • WOW a New Clue . Hip Hip Hooray 🙂
          This best be the Finale Clue. 🙂
          I’m all Ears and Eyes.

          Can anyone tell me how you Choke on a ” Life” Saver ? 🙂 ha-ha well I did.

          • amy glad you are ok the two items most people choke on are hotdogs and hard candy. today show and how to handle choking

      • Cool I have to get up early tomorrow anyway so now it will be a whole lot easier knowing there will be a new clue…. 🙂

        And it makes me wonder… Is Mr Stevens looking for the treasure??? And if he is how long has he known about this new clue?

        • Spallies-
          Six weeks longer than us..but he hasn’t quit his job at CBS yet so I guess he didn’t find it… 🙂

    • Thought that past tense was interesting. IMO he planned it and made it sound like it was meant to be. Forrest doesn’t make many mistakes.

  86. Great interview. 🙂 let’s call the adventure,
    ” Treasured Memories” 🙂 I find to believe there’s another clue than its not in a mine. 🙂

  87. Spallies

    I’m only “Thinking” In and Out” of the Box. I’m always thinking. Which is good. 🙂

  88. whoever finds this treasure should build a museum around it near or in the national park where its found for all to view and pay a nominal fee to do so…..

    • Mark, great idea. In one taped interview, Forrest mentioned he would like the Smithsonian museum to have it on display. However I favor the Buffalo Bill Center of the West in Cody, Wyoming. Forest sat on their board and donated to their collections.

  89. Wise One, I believe you were the one who commented about the “Seek Thermal” camera (correct me if I am wrong).
    I purchased one, the XR model, from Botach.com.
    You make an offer, they accept or not,
    I bought the XR model for the Basic model price.
    Doesn’t work with all phones.
    I like it a lot! Thanks.

    • I’ve ordered the FLIR One attachment for my i-phone 6 plus…should have it in 2 weeks.

      • Guys I don’t see that being very effective , if hidden in a giant boulder. Wouldn’t the heat print from rocks shadow out whatever you were looking for?

        • if it is out in the open or up resting on a tree, then thermal vision at night is a godsend.

          • I watched the video again and I can’t imagine why the reporter would say that unless Forrest told her that. I’ve never thought it was buried in the commonly understood sense of the term, but did think it might be under a rock similar to the picture on page 218 in TFTW. If he really meant that you did not have to disturb “anything”, does that mean to not even have to lift up a rock – is that “disturbing” something?

          • The interview I listed above is very slow loading – so here is a partial transcript of what she said……………

            IT MUST BE IN SANTA FE. HE DID SAY — HE SAID YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO DIG AROUND OR DISTURB ANYTHING. SHELLY: PROBABLY EVERYBODY OVER THINKS IT. NORCO WE SHOULD PROBABLY FIND OUT WHERE PEOPLE ARE GOING.

          • Ok Iron you got me there but I think he said one time “might as well ask me how deep is a hole”

          • Oh yeah, the hole comment was because someone asked him how long he thought it would take to find it…1 year, 5 years, 10 years 100 years… So Forrest, answered a stupid question with a stupid answer… which got a lot of laughs 😀

          • Inthechaseto,

            My opinion, no it’s not buried. Forrest knows that if the chest is buried, then when found, it is going to be packed full of silt from rain seepage. He would’ve wanted the contents to remain pristine and awe inspiring to the eye of the finder, and if buried, opening the lid would just reveal a muddy mess. Here is my Top 5 (1 being most likely) list of where the treasure rests along with reasoning…

            5. In a petrified hollowed out log (simply because of the “brave and in the wood”)

            4. On the ground covered with rocks or gravel (this allows no silt to get into the chest as any dust particles are filtered away by the stones.

            3. sitting on the ground in a flood resistant area in and among a patch of juniper bushes.(Because he spoke so much about juniper fires, and he’s stated you wont stumble onto the chest and cant simply walk to it)

            2. In a small cave with a water source coming out of it, just big enough for a person to crawl into. (could be a spot near his favorite fishing hole that he discovered as a boy.)

            1. Resting high up on some supporting branches of a Pine tree.( Pines in the Rocky mountains have a life span of 500 years or more, earth could not hurt it there, and wind COULD affect it under the right conditions. And if you read my solution then you know all of the other supporting reasons.)

            Water- I don’t believe it is in a body of water because of storm flooding and silt seepage from water agitation. Like the soil comment above, the chest would be full of mud when recovered. Also in response to the Nature question, he said it is PROBABLY already wet. If it were in the water it would be an absolute, not a % chance, hinting that snow or rain has made it wet.

          • Is moving a rock disturbing anything? Is parting tall grass disturbing anything? I wish we could have heard ff saying it and not someone relaying what he said. I cannot imagine after this much time that nothing got “in the way” of seeing it. But then again – Bronze is cold – I don’t think thermal vision will help. An average metal sector does not pick up on bronze and I think Dal said somewhere that the bronze is too thick to pick up on the gold. I wonder if you need to disturb anything in order to get it out of its hiding place.

      • At least I thought about you, Wise One. 🙂

        Iron Will, why did you choose the FLIR One?

        So far I am impressed with the Seek Thermal.

        • Because they just came out with a 2nd gen model to it which I feel is the best, that attaches like the Seek. Plus its FLIR ….the most reliable name in thermal imaging in the world. With a price of only 50 bucks more than the Seek, I had to take it

          • Iron, I tried a flir camera where I work, I put a heavy metal bearing out in the grass and left it there overnight, the next morning I tried the camera and it would not show anything through the tall grass, but it would show up from above. If its in the open it should help. If it is behind leaves or grass the one I tried only picked up the outer surface temp. Don’t know if this will help but anything is worth trying. IMO only.
            Another thing that I have considered about it being out in plain sight is that it is probably covered with a layer of dirt and possibly algae or other growth on it if it in a wet location, so it will not be the shinny bronze that we see in the pictures, just a wild thought. I wondered about the hill at Firehole falls that I climbed down. It is covered with stones, almost paved, about the size of the chest. Could it be hiding out in the open there????. I should have spent more time looking. LOL

          • Just so happens the guy across the street from me is in equipment sales. One of the things he sells is FLIR. He has agreed to bring home a camera this week-end to conduct an experiment on how long it takes for a metal object left in the open to obtain ambient temperature (both up and down).

            Not sure what all objects we will use yet, but we will use several. One will be a new brake rotor for a mini-van, a SCUBA weight belt (lead), and a Texas toothpick (look it up). Not 42 pounds of gold, but heavy, metal objects.

            I do have an old gold pocket watch we can put in an ammo box. Maybe someone has a bronze bell I can borrow.

            Unfortunately, I don’t have 42 pounds of gold and bronze lying around to include. If any of you happen to have this much gold sitting around gathering dust, please contact me and I will come pick it up free of charge.

            Looks like I am going to have a fun time this week-end. Disclaimer – reported quality of results may vary over time and beer consumption.

            Scott W.

          • Scott let us know how that turns out. Try concealing the stuff under stuff too.

          • Cat –

            We will be covering 1/2 of the Texas toothpick with six inches of dirt. Once we get no reading on the entire rod, we will uncover it and see if the part that was covered is still warm. We predict it will be. We also predict the half left in the open will show heat longer but cool faster since the dirt will act as an insulator. – if that makes sense.

            Scott W.

        • TY for thinking about me… 🙂 and
          Good Luck with your “Seek Thermal” unit.

    • In your dictionary, what’s an aberration? ~Serge Teteblanche

      I don’t have a dictionary but my personal definition is “Something different.” I like that word.

      When I was a kid there was a commonly used word. Crean, and it described the condition a car could get into when it ran into a ditch and the frame twisted a little, preventing the doors from opening. Modern autos are more sturdy so I guess that word was retired. I can’t find it anywhere now.f

      Opinion below:

      Something out there in the wild is twisted. He’s mentioned twist too many times not to be. Possibly red is involved notice his usage of “retired”

      Just take the cheSt and go east

      • Cat cut, F’s comment makes me wonder if there’s an old wrecked car that Sswerved off the road and landed in the canyon down near F’s treasure. Old heavy cars like his Bullet had less than optimal brake systems, and we’re often left at the bottom of their creaning or bowed trajectory. That would be surprising but I don’t see it in the poem unless Forrest “done it tired” down the canyon over an embankment in a car and lived to tell about it.

        • You could be right, last week I went for a smim in a river. Near the river off a steep bank was a twisted old car…appeared to have plunged off the embankment.

          • Let’s not forget the car picture in TFTW titled “it could twist like a snake”

            Hey maybe it’s a twisted trail (blaze) whatever ‘it’ is it stands out in its environment.

        • Here is another case and point. This has me scratching my head because twist has been used in the context of a car twice but at other times he’s used it with the word little. It could be that twist refers to more than one thing river/walking stick. Confused here.

          Hidden in High Regard: Featured Question with Forrest Fenn

          Would you want the person that finds your treasure to admire the place where it rests? Andrew

          Well Andrew, I’m not sure “admire” is the right word but if we twist it a little maybe we can make it work. The word means approval or high regard. So it works. I sure feel that way or I would not have hidden it there. I like the way you think Andrew. f

          • Hmmmm… approve but not admire. Maybe a better word to describe the character of the hidey place is ‘distinctive”, though I can’t imagine what that means. Perhaps something like on an altar made of bones, or a place of honor in a place of shame or waste.

        • Cars have tires, so they would be tired and a wrecked car could leak warm water, so maybe the start of the chase is a wrecked car? Why not?

    • @rov. “This 12 inch gilded wooden figure is Ibis, the sacred bird of Thoth, the god of wisdom. His hair is inlaid blue Faience, the first glass ever intentionally produced by man. He dates to 7th – 6th century BC, and his beak and scepter are of bronze. He’s not supposed to be carrying a scepter, but there it is. Hmmm. Sometimes it’s the “aberration” of an object that wets the wits of a collector.

      @wiseone – by misspelling abBerations Forrest altered the word to fit its own definition. He’s so subtly clever that most of it flies over my head.

      • Anna, I can’t see where f added the extra B in aberration. I was thinking it was Dal or whomever typed the text for this website.

  90. I found this on Gypsy’s Kiss site:
    At the event at Moby Dickens Book Shop in Taos, he said, “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.”
    FYI…Notice this word is misspelled (with two b’s, abberrations), here on blog under the Forrest Shares Links… Not sure if this is a typo or deliberate. We all know f likes to use words that aren’t in the dictionary… 🙂

    • Just thoughts about F’s comments in TOTC:

      Norman Rockwall
      North man rock wall

      Catcher in the Rye
      Catch her in the gin
      (Alcohol or cards)
      Catch her in tall grass

      Hemingway
      Hem in way or follow hem/ edges.

      Einstein
      in beer stein, haha!

  91. I just tried a little exercise, to connect Forrest’s tour-de-force with some unrelated topic. It’s Bastille day in France so I picked this year’s Tour de France. How did I do?

    As I have gone alone in there Stage 1. UTRECHT, individual time trial (go alone)
    And with my treasures bold, In Utrecht, the treasury within St Catherine’s convent
    I can keep my secret where, contains gold and silver, precious texts and religious
    And hint of riches new and old. artefacts from both new (Protestant) and old (Catholic).

    Begin it where warm waters halt Stage 2 Utrechj-Zeeland. Vlissingen in Zeeland home of the Dutch East India Company (where warm water [goers] halt)
    And take it in the canyon down, Vilissingen means flushing
    Not far, but too far to walk. Stage 3 Antwerp-Huy. We’re cycling, not walking
    Put in below the home of Brown. Stage 4 Seraing-Cambrai. Seraing Brown boys baseball team

    From there it’s no place for the meek, Stage 5. Arras-Amiens via WWI battle grounds
    …Just heavy loads and water high. River Somme(t)

    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, Stage 6 Abbevile – Le Havre. Saint Vulfran Collegiate church built in the Flaming Gothic style.

    So why is it that I must go Stage 7 Livarot-Fougeres ?
    And leave my trove for all to seek?
    The answers I already know, Stage 8 Rennes – Mur de Bretagne
    I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak. Notre Dame de Bon Repos Abbey in Mur de Bretagne

    So hear me all and listen good, Stage 9 Vannes-Plumelec
    Your effort will be worth the cold. St. Vincent Ferrer buried in Vannes cathedral
    If you are brave and in the wood Hint [see pics of racing in the Arenbourg forest]
    I give you title to the gold. Hint [Sir Bradley Wiggins, Olympic gold medalist.]

    My point? Well I’m not trying to dissuade anyone from going out searching but if *any* part of your solution is as weak as this you would do well to temper expectations and just have some fun.

  92. Iron Will—

    I remember Forrest saying someone won’t just stumble across the chest. But I can’t recall him ever saying that someone can’t simply walk to it. Do you have that link?

    Thanx

    • It was in a video interview… he stated, (paraphrasing) “you’re not going to just get out of your car, walk over into the woods, and …and..walk to the treasure”

    • If the chest is attached to a rope deep in a well or over a cliff, you couldn’t walk right up to it or stumble over it. Also applies to in a tree. And lots of other places.

      • In a TREE, Mindy? 🙂 That’s CRAZY! Are there any trees in the Rocky Mountains that can survive 1000 years? If there is…please let me know…because I’m looking there. On second thought, don’t tell anyone. I have some research to do.

        • Yes there are trees in the Rocky Mountains that can last 700 and even 800 years. Half they Pine Trees there live 500 years easy.

          • Pinus longaeva, the Great Basin bristlecone pine,[2] is a long-living species of tree found in the higher mountains of the southwest United States. The species is one of three closely related trees known as bristlecone pines and is sometimes known as the Intermountain or Western bristlecone pine.[3] One member of this species, at 5065 years old, is the oldest known living non-clonal organism on Earth.[4]

          • Thank you very much, Iron Will and Uken2it and OS. I had no idea that there are trees in the Rockies that live that long. That’s awesome. Long Live the Forest! …And Forrest!!! See what I did there? lol! If he reads that he’ll think I’m such a brown noser. Hmmm…put in below the nose of brown? Probably not. That’s way too cheeky. Where was I? Oh, yeah. Thanks, All, for the info about “the wood”. Now I have some new (old wood?) intel to chew on.

          • “And if we twist it a little…it might work.” From the pictures I’ve seen, the trunks are twisted… forrest probably likes that! 🙂
            I was reading about these ancient trees this morning. Pretty amazing.

          • I think when he made that comment on Jennys site he was hinting to “high regard” for the resting place of the chest, meaning resting up on the top of a tree.

        • Bristle cone pines (plenty in Valle Videl, NM) can live thousands of years… got one here in CA that is over 5000 years old. they are in CO as well. Dont know if they are in WY or MT.

        • I don’t think it’s in a tree. I was just giving examples of how not “stumbling” on it could be interpreted. 🙂

          • Mindy, you always have terrific ideas.
            My lean towards highly imaginative… How about in a subterranean area with twisted underground roots or an ice cave with stagalagtites! Ok, now I’m out of Harrison ford movie mode and back to reality of solving that poem 😉

  93. Hi Folks,
    Mindy this reminds me of our trip to Nambe. It was closed, but we had to pull over for a few to check out this cave by the entrance to the Nambe sewage treatment plant. Which was of course down the rd. a bit… not too far, but too far to walk from the falls. hoB??? Smiles.
    Anyhow, my son threw a few rocks down this hole and he said they made a tink, instead of a thump… I always thought I should have dropped/lowered him in there. He’s flexible!
    I have some time today, so I’d like to share why we were at Nambe, the Chimayo, and inevitably how I got a ticket in Abiqui.
    Mark H.

  94. Hi Forrest, just in case you happen upon this, I have a request. There was a picture of maybe a circle with arrow heads at the end of your last interview with CBS. It came and went so quickly that I did not have a chance to admire it. If you could, would you mind sharing this image with the group?
    Thanks and hope all is well.
    Friend

  95. “…. What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.”

    There’s no human trail in close proximity. Because there just isn’t or because there can’t be????

    • Hi Kevin….I’ve pondered this “clue” on various occasions and have chosen to just to watch what other may think it means, until now…..as I have realized that there are more than one answer to this hint….

      “not a human-made trail” – whether these are his exact words or paraphrased, I’m not sure, but let me comment on what I think it could relate to:

      a. he made the trail….so that could mean that there wasn’t a “human made trail” where he went.

      b. maybe a wildlife game trail – “not human made”, but still a trail

      c. the trail is a “natural path” within the region, that could be a clearing or maybe a large plains area…..*shrugs*….

      I’m not even sure if this clue is relevant or not, because Fenn states, “if you have been wise and found the blaze”…..which clearly shows he had used some sort of trail to get to the blaze.

      Figuring out that “blaze” has been very difficult, considering the square miles one must look through.

      IMO – I think he marked one himself…..one that was not already presently a marked trail or known trail.

      I know I would if I wanted to hide some treasure where no one could find it…..I’d make it as “difficult” as possible…..just for the “thrill of the chase”.

      You know what I mean?

      • I never thought ‘found’ was in the sense of ‘find’, but always was in the sense of ‘make’… as in: Fenn makes his bronze statues at his foundry, IMO

    • I used to think it might be lava tube of some sort. I even took a trip to an extinct volcano to search for the treasure.

      Scott W.

  96. ” It’s not on top of the mountain but maybe close to the top.” I don’t remember when and where he said this. All I remember is he did say it. 🙂

    • Well, on that same note, I guess it may be close to the bottom, too. Just another Fennism twist of words. IMO

  97. Hi everyone, I have been in the Wood. Kevin P, I think about that comment alot! Mindy, I agree! I think its “Underwood” remember when forrest twice slipped and said buried? Which is like being hidden…down, I am thinking.

    Lou Lee, chased by bears in jellystone park and lived to tell the tale. 🙂

  98. Remember this comment from one of Forrest’s interviews?

    “If I was standing where the treasure chest is, I’d see trees, I’d see mountains, I’d see animals. I’d smell wonderful smells of pine needles, or pinyon nuts, sagebrush—and I know the treasure chest is wet.”

    I have been thinking about this a lot and one thing I hadn’t noticed until now was that Forrest never mentions anything about seeing water if he were standing where the chest is… I would think that if the chest were hidden near a creek or river he would have surely added that in the list of things he would see, don’t you think?? When he says the chest is wet I don’t think he’s referring to a stream or river. IMO

    • Thanks Tim for the eye opener! Maybe he standing in the water which would provoke the statement for the chest being wet.

      He did say if he was standing where the chest is and the chest is wet !

  99. Did he write “it’s wet” or did he speak it to someone who wrote his words down and then posted them? He could have played it by saying “it’s whet” knowing that the writer would probably use the word “wet”. And the difference between ‘its’ and ‘it’s” has to be watched…. trouble is, I think grammatical mix-ups are part of his game.

    • He spoke them in a video interview. But to me, it sounded like he said “with” and then in the editing they cut off the rest of it.

  100. Hey friends,
    I was talking to a newbie yesterday who definitely has the fever. He said something I found interesting and that I had never heard before… He asked,

    “If f made two trips, was it possible… one was to carry the treasure… and one to carry a raft, kayak or a dingy?” I have to admit… I HAD NO ANSWER?

    As I remember… when I first started this Chase. f said he went IN THERE… and we would have TO PUT IN BELOW?

    Dang, back to GO, and I hadn’t collected $200 bucks?

    Dal once used as an example that… he put in to the woods… I think this was a stretch, but okay I’m flexible…

    The problem to me… TO PUT IN… has wet connotations???
    Not too many folks use PUT IN… in fact, I haven’t found any others besides spelunkers who also use PUT IN…
    And for me… caves do fit as many are wet, and mostly caused by water flow… Sometimes Water High… creeks?
    IDK
    Maybe to put in below just means to get BOG at that point or maybe just search below… ???
    I guess,
    the reason I bring this up is searchers who have put in… BOG, have to know what to look for once they’re there, and I’m not sure if a list has ever been put together on what we all might be looking for??? Owls, monuments, caves, Willows…shadows? What about the bottom of a wood pile??? Should we shake every juniper (I am). (What are you looking for?)
    Ha!
    Crazy, as much time as we have all PUT IN… I can’t figure out how one goes with confidence to a tiny itty bitty little spot, in the MIDDLE of who knows where?

    Mark H. Playing Canasta!

    • Forrest has said that he took the gold on the first trip and the chest on the second. He also said that he walked back to his car laughing at himself.

      • Naught-I don’t believe Forrest ever said that he took the gold on the first trip and the chest on the second..
        That is common opinion about what he likely did. But all Forrest has said is that he made two trips in one afternoon. The rest is speculation.

    • Also, “put in” is a common term for boating and canoeing. Hikers also use it to refer to entering a trailhead or wilderness area. Hope that helps. 🙂

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