The Nine Clues…….Part Fiftythree


This Nine Clues page is closed to new comments.

This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

809 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…….Part Fiftythree

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      • A-ha. I really am a Luddite. And a simple one at that. I just keep checking in instead of getting pinged more than this hamster can stand.

      • Oh! that explains why I never get an e-mail… all this time, I thought it was because folks thought I was crazy… I am… I just don’t want them to think it.

  1. Where warm waters halt…

    1-could ‘warm’ refer to the name of the body of water? Warm colors are red to yellow in the color spectrum I believe…

    2-Could ‘Halt’ mean a river that is only around at certain times of the year?

    3-why is ‘waters’ plural? Does that mean there are multiple bodies of water?

    4-Is this the place to start? I think the 1st paragraph is very interesting…what place is he talking about? The hidey spot? His office where he wrote the poem?…and ‘hint of treasures new and old’ is the one line and I had absolute nothing on, no imagination there, notta, nothing…

    • I hate doing this – but I’m going to anyway. Perhaps it will encourage real clue sharing.

      Forrest told us to “listen good”.

      I ran the entire poem through several text to speech engines; and I listened. I ran it at slow speeds, high speeds, and with different accents (in English).

      As has been stated previously by others, one thing I heard was “where warn water’s salt”.

      I thought about this for a long time and came up with this.

      The Salt River Range.


      Read it backwards. Range, River, Salt.
      Range = stove = warm
      River = water

      So, could WWH be the Salt River Range?

      I will skip forward a bit – Heavy loads and water high. Could this be – Rock Lake Peak? This is located in the SRR.

      There is also Indian Grave Flats. Brave and in the wood? In the grave = in the coffin (AKA – in the wood). Or could being brave and “in the wood” mean going into Stump Lake? It certainly would be cold!

      The whole area fits. I’m not going to give up the HoB or the blaze, but they are there too.

      What do you think?

      Scott W

      • Very interesting.

        I like the way you came up for WWWH… Its unusual and not just a ‘warm’ body of water… I’ll have to check that out!

        Have you gone searching there yet?

          • Interesting. Hear me all – the chase is open to all and listen good – read and study the poem. I think is is meant for clear English.

      • Every thing sounds reasonable. And I think it was gremanguy who said, Salt water is warm then fresh water. Don’t quote me on that.

        I don’t like using names as clues… unless it is something very very unique all by itself. and doesn’t really need the name. to understand… that’s just me.

        I can say the obvious, a lot of area fits the poem… If you read it that one way.

        Here’s my questions thought Scott, Can you go to a 1 square foot area? or do you think you have to travel all those other areas? to get to the chest.

        • I think if you find the blaze you have gone too far. Finding the blaze tells you to turn around.

          To your question – no not to a 1 square foot area.


          • MJ – I won’t tell you why I think it means to turn around.

            However, if you find the blaze, “your quest to cease”.

            Look at the map in the area I defined with WWH. Then find a geographic name that would cause your quest to cease.

            IMO – the blaze is a clue to the seeker that indicates you are on the right track. The name of the blaze and “quest to cease” is confirmation you are almost there.

            Scott W.

          • Yeah Scott, I agree with MJ on that one. That is the first I heard anyone Not wanting to find the Blaze… LOL’

            Seriously, can you put some insight on that… you got my attention. Obviously not giving away the cow in the process, just a glass of warm milk would be nice.

            Um free cow and milk? Sorry, wrong ‘thrill of the chase…. ‘

          • Seeker,

            Here you go. If you see a blaze and look quickly down, what is it that is on fire?

            Think about any three stooges episode.

            So you looked down and found you have a “hot foot”. Therefore, your quest to cease.

            Look just north of Murphy Creek Camp-ground and tell me the name of the creek to the east of the river.

            It is the only creek in North America with that name.

            Well, I got you half way through my solve. The second half is the hardest.

            I don’t feel too bad giving this away since I don’t think it is enough to get anyone to the chest.

            Your comments are appreciated.

            Scott W

        • Fort Union, New Mexico. A hauntingly beautiful, military story taking place there…… “The Death Waltz.”

          I highly recommend it ~


      • I would also like to offer a suggestion:

        I’ve been drawn to a remote region of Western, New Mexico ~ Zuni Salt Lake ~ ( A steep mesa of exquisite rocks; located between Zuni & Pescado).

        “Goddess of Salt.”

        An historically fascinating place and story!


        • I like my clues with a lot of factual information, IMO they need to be time relevant
          Wiki says…

          From 1994 to 2003, there was a proposal to develop a coal mine near the Zuni Salt Lake.[5][6] It would have involved extraction of water from the aquifer below the lake as well as construction between the lake and the Pueblo of Zuñi.[7][8] The proposal was withdrawn after several lawsuits, and is regarded as an important exercise of native rights in the United States.

          Zuñi Salt Lake (Navajo: Áshįįh[2]), is a rare high desert lake, and a classic maar. It is located in Catron County, about 60 miles south of the Zuni Pueblo, New Mexico, USA. Zuñi Salt Lake is extremely shallow, with the depth only to four feet in the wet season. During the dry season, much of the water evaporates leaving behind saltflats. It was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1999.

          Weren’t those 2.75 rockets Fenn alluded to also nicknamed Zuni rockets?

        • More Wiki…
          The Zuni Salt Lake was not part of the Zuñi reservation originally recognized by the U.S. government, but the U.S. returned the lake itself, and 5,000 acres (2,000 ha; 20 km2) surrounding it, to Zuni control in 1985.

      • WWWH – Tears are salty and warm. How about the bowl of tears in Colorado? Waters is plural and the name is bowl of tears.

          • If Steelcity uses it as a clue and not the resting place of the chest… what difference does elevation have?

            I thought only the chest is between 10,200′ and 5000′. I hope I didn’t miss another clue. I’m still looking in Kansas.

          • Believe I’m only off by 72 ft from my next search destination.
            Lol! That’s so funny! 🙂

          • Seeker –

            Well – take a look – most of it is above tree line and places that are not – are too far to walk for FF, twice in one day and way too steep. Just my opinion. And yes, Steel – if you like it – go for it.

          • Inthechase,

            I must be confused. If Steel is using it as a starting point as WWWH… fenn wouldn’t even have to go there.

            Nevertheless with he chest. Maybe not far but too far to walk, is a mile below straight down.

            But this brings up an old question… is it absolutely necessary to walk/ hike the clues from point to point or just locate the small area the chest is at on a map
            [ 50 foot radius lets say ] and go from home to the chest?

            Armchair vs. BOTG

          • Seeker –

            If you entertain a thought of FF walking one mile – one way – That’s a total of 4 miles – way to far IMO. He probably put it next to his car 🙂

            I think you should solve the whole thing from home – if you don’t – wandering around – even doing a grid will not help. So 72 ft is too far off. Course what do I know – I don’t have IT.

    • cluesfromphilly,

      1. Sure, i don’t like names, but sure. The colors of waters depends on what is in the water, example; a geyser and the minerals.
      2. More like a seasonal creek? which is more a drainage system. But then again looks what is happening to the Colorado river.
      3. Multiple bodies of waters depends on what you mean… many lakes, a few rivers, a whole lot of geysers etc. doesn’t narrow down to much. Maybe warm and waters means simple liquid water and the plural means all liquid. Does this narrow down to a spot? not by itself, till maybe warm is understood why it is placed were it is for another reason. [ just a thought]
      4. I don’t know where fenn wrote the poem over a 15 year span, but the new and old, i see in many ways… one way is the easy way… opposites.

      Does any of that help you, hasn’t done to much for me, so take it for what is worth,

        • One thing that I have wondered is, ” exposed to the elements.”

          Can the first clue be that… Meaning a place that actually has many of the elements.

          H2O. arsenic, sulfurs, etc. What place as so many elements naturally?

          • Yet another thought, how does waters stop ( halt ).

            Is the water now warm because it stopped being hot?

            Are we looking for warm waters that was something more than warm yet stopped be that after cooling.

  2. Hello, there is also the Warm springs Indians who halted or were moved and put in another part of NM I followed them to the south of Santa Fe. Forrest is going to try to trip us up with words they are in the poem right there in front of us. Also, to listen good maybe an echo… Just some thoughts. This is Ms Girl just checking in still in the chase. happy late Labor Day…

    • Maybe “listen good” is to pay attention to what is in the poem and not to add anything or to interrupt what he said.

  3. Wasn’t that Mummy found in a salt cave? I think I was looking around the Gaudalupe’s at the time? I can’t remember to tell the truth, but I was looking for Salt below the Colorado Sand Dunes to the north. It seems around the time of the SB about those zebra boots… all I came up with was zebra muscles but who knows?
    Late but here!
    Mark H. Is there an Echo?

  4. I think I know what the nine clues are. I pondered these hard when I first got into the chase a couple of months ago. Now, do I want to bare my soul and let you folks tell me I am off base in my reckoning? Or, for one or more of you to take my nine clues and get there ahead of me? This is not really a tough call.

    Frankly, I am unwilling (selfishly perhaps) to list out what I think the nine clues are, becaue I think that’s part of the fun/puzzle, It’s no surprise to you all, for me to tell you that I agree with many on this blog, and elsewhere on the web, that “where warm waters halt” is a clue. I won’t divulge what my suspicion is, or in what order it is in the sequence. In fact, I won’t divulge what order any of the clues are in (for me).

    You see, if I fail, I want to “hit the wall” on my own – I don’t want anybody eles’s help. 🙂 That way, I have only myself “to beat up” when I realize I missed it, and then have to go on to the next iteration of my solve.

    I knnow that this is my opinion, and others may not hold to it, nor do I think that they should. I can accept that. Please don’t think less of me for wanting to “hold my cards close to my chest” while playing canasta.

    • I got no problems with that Swwot, just why bother saying anything at all. I know it would be a big risk to hand out your WWWH, So I wouldn’t ask that… But can ya tell me where the Blaze is? I mean that is so far down the list, it would take me years to figure out your full solve, Right?

      • Seeker, I plead the fifth. 🙂

        OK, not really – at least for now.

        Here’s what I can say about my solve. If I find the right starting spot, I would expect to have Indulgence in my possession in short order. My solve is not that sophisticated, really. I think it is a bit simplistic when compared to what I’ve already read here on this blog and other places. The spot I have in mind is very specific and lines up with what Forrest has said all along – that the person that finds Indulgence will know before he strikes out where it is.

        So why do I say anything at all? To see if others think I am as crazy as I think I am for taking this on and/or thinking the way that I do. So far, I have learned much from the dialogue here, as well as been able to share some thought processes as well. This is a great community of thinkers – not all blogs/boards have that quality about them. More simply said, I like it here – I feel safe and among peers. That’s why I share.

        • swwot,

          Just spill the beans. There is almost a 100% chance you are incorrect. Posting the solve will get you honest feedback before you spend all your time and money chasing nothing.

          I just shared my favorite WWWH, Blaze, Water high, and in the wood.

          I did keep my hoB to myself though, so I see your hesitation.

          Let’s face it. No one is going to be able to get to your spot before the winter comes, and if they do they will never find it without all of your information of the solve.

          Scott W

        • Swwot. I don’t want you to think I’m crazy…. I am… I just don’t want you to think it.

          I never worry about sharing too much. Most if not all won’t believe you anyways. LoL. Just don’t give up that square foot spot.

  5. The first clue is E- sight. You need it to discern Errol Flynn and Amelia Earhart hints.

    Then think Like an old Spaniard…
    John Wayne – (not DG’s rooster) has an excellent Spanish treasure mapping book. JW’s Spanish treasure book may help one understand 1. perhaps a good reason why Fenn the collector chose to live in Santa Fe, 2. and how to follow Jesuit mapping methods.

    Because there are no 300 yr old Jesuits, John Wayne’s book comes in helpful.

  6. Seeker –

    I have one more for you.

    Riches old and new.

    Aside from the phone number bit we went though last night, I can’t get the Fenn Clovis Cash out of my head. Just South of the Salt River Range is a very important line. This line separates two of the states Fenn has specifically eliminated from the search area (Utah and Idaho). I have to ask myself, “Why did he feel it necessary to tell us this unless there was meaning”?

    As everyone knows, the Fenn Clovis Cache is believed to have been found near the borders of Idaho, Utah, and Wyoming. However, the location of the find has never been revealed (most agree it is unknown). Just how close to this intersection, no one knows.

    Just words for thought.

    Scott W.

    • I would like to add – IMO, What if, and I’m just guessing to everything I have said tonight so I don’t get nuked.


      Scott W.

    • I found your hot feet and chuckled, clever, on the thought of turning around.
      When those states were removed from the equation i wasn’t surprised. As most of my solve / theory already did so. The chest is not in close proximity to a human trail. My thought is, the CD being the trail. But I agree that the Cache is interesting, and the location of the find as well, even though unknown to us. That would be something I would hold in high regards.

      The question is who else knows or knew where they were found?

      I would not rule out MT as one of the bordering states. But that is a gut feeling and nothing to support it. And yes i can see your logic as to those two states and WY. When I hear or read a comment from fenn, I try to understand it from his point of view. Keeping in mind he holds the answers, So yes, why those states?

      My one thought is the one line in the poem… “the end is ever drawing nigh” I’m a Multiple meanings guy when it come to the solve and I think almost all the meanings are to be understood and used.. The difficult part of not impossible… “End” means boundary or border. It also means Death. So i can see a slight relationship to the find of the pieces. The thing from my perspective, is how does all the meanings flow together to tell us how to see the poem correctly? as well as loop it all together telling us where the chest is.

      I’m not big on the step by step directions approach. The poem yells to me, the whole picture. One complete understanding of the entire poem, that in the end say… what took me so long?

      That is why all the after the fact comments confuse me… I do see what other do and some have great idea { wolfs book is a great example of that } and for the price of a large coffee at starbucks, it’s not a bad buy, just for all that food for thought. And while i’m at it, all the money go to cancer research…
      But the after the fact comments to be used, MUST be found in the poem when the poem is known as a complete ” big Picture ”

      I’ll join you, on being politically correct… Just my opinion folks.

      • Seeker – You wrote: “My thought is, the CD being the trail.”

        Just so happens that the tri-basin divide is at the southern end of the Salt River Range.

        You Wrote: ““End” means boundary or border. It also means Death.”

        Just so happens the Deadman Creek is in the extreme near vicinity. As well as deadhorse and dead dog creeks.

        You wrote: “The thing from my perspective, is how does all the meanings flow together to tell us how to see the poem correctly?”

        Well – I’m not going to give that part away. Nor will I give hoB and the remaining stanzas away.

        You Wrote – “I’m not big on the step by step directions approach”.

        I was a big-picture solver as well. I was looking at the poem as a “what/who am I” puzzle. But then Forrest kept telling everyone that people got the first two clues correct and went right past the other seven, and that some were within 200 feet. I had to ask myself how you could get within 200 feet with only the first two clues. That was a turning point for me in my approach to the puzzle. From then on i viewed the Poem as a map.

        As always – just opinions, guesses and wishful thinking.

        Scott W.

        • q1werty,

          One thing to consider is that the 200 foot statement and first two clues statement might not involve the same people. He may have made the statements together, and that allows people to jump to the conclusion that it was all one event, but it’s also possible they are different.

          People should consider assumptions carefully.

        • I was also going to comment on why he eliminated Utah and Idaho. I kind of believe that Fenn had no way of knowing how difficult the poem was going to be since he had no one to test it out on. As time passed there was a lot of pressure for him to release “clues”. In that time frame I think he had seen enough search activity, and received enough emails to gauge better what a tough time folks were having, and he just felt more comfortable narrowing things down a bit.

          So technically he reduced the possibilities but how helpful was it really? Apparently not very…we all still struggle with 4 states so he didn’t take much of a risk by reducing the search area.

        • I’m in agreement that there is a catch 22 here when it comes to the first two clues… and then… the other seven. I have told two people via private conversations where my spot is or at least where I think it is. Yet i had a small problem narrowing it down to a foot square… Last night after talking with someone, i came up with a spot. I would like to say a foot square, but realistically that is the BOTG part. But a small enough “spot” to do a search.

          I had to give up a step by step method totally… not even pacing out. The words IMO by meaning{s} give you the spot. Not unlike the example with the word End… Other words do the same. And just like everyone else attempting to see just exactly what a clue is, I had to do that with those word. and just like the different interpretations of the poem, those words were just as difficult to see their usage.

          Am I confident this is the solve? IF my method of reading the poem is correct, then yes. The not so much confident, IF I have the correct method of reading it. For me, there is a correct way to understand why those few searchers went / walk / passed the other seven and the step by step method was the down fall.

          So I’ll put “my opinion” out there and say this; The entire poem is needed, to understand how to read the poem correctly or maybe a better term would be ‘intended’ ~ and the result is more an understanding, than 9 separate clues. Yet a single flowing of information that brings you to a location… that does not need to be traveled…

          PS. No floating hat required.

          So before ya’ll say Seekers gone off the deep end… look closely at the words, Realistically, IMO, IF, “my opinion”, Not so much confident ; of a correct method / or intent of reading the poem.

          Now where is my magic egg that will save my soul from being sucked away when I find the chest?

          • Not tellin, I’m gonna let ya sweat… lol

            Now it come to funding really, an est. 4000 mile round trip, gas, food, a big juicy steak dinner… do a little fishing. I maybe confident, but not a dummy! and I still need written permission from the boss to take the time off. Marriage is tough.
            But not in a hurry. I don’t have gold fever.

          • I’ll do one better… if possible to line up a trip, with your scheduled in the future. You can see the magic egg in action… Aluminum Foil hat is recommended, but not required.

        • Goofy,
          Not sure exactly what your suggesting. The way he used it in that context I took it to mean that architect was not intended to be thought of “literally”…..but figuratively.

          So he “designed” and “constructed” a poem like an architect designs and builds a house….with purpose and planning.

          So I would say no hint, just clarification.

          • colokid since colloquialisms are often geographical in nature, and used in everyday speech. Words that have a formal meaning can also have a colloquial meaning and the meanings can change over time.

            So is the map we are looking for have colloquial names on it? Or do we need to find old names of places that have changed over time to place on our map?

            Perhaps you are correct and it means nothing and I’m exploring a moose hole.

        • Hi Goofy,
          I don’t know if that’s what he intended to say, but Yes that’s a very good observation. In fact I check that very thing frequently. The map program I use to search map names offers up those archaic names so it’s worth considering. I’ve stumbled on some things (old names) every now and then that looked promising, but to date it hasn’t panned out.

        • Other words that would describe Colloquially… common, conversational, everyday, demotic…

          I think after a quick read of the discussion [2014], which I never saw or just forgot… Dal’s thoughts / post, over emphasized what fenn “may have” intended his original thought.

          So architect can be used commonly as, He felt like he was just constructing piece to fit into a poem in a manor for the reader to build on.

          When fenn made the comment he felt like or an architect wrote the poem… I always thought that the poem has the pieces needed, not just to find the chest, but how to understand it … a schematic if you will. designed [ to what I call indicators ] to read it.

          I put this example out before so here it is again. Can WWWH be about water… yes, can it be about warm waters… yes. Can the meaningS of the word be used to understand the poem, IMO a must yes. Can warm indicated you are close to where you need to be… possible. Can a kid have an advantage to understanding the poem?

          By the way Goofy, I can find a d@!#$ thing on “show the poem to a child or kid…” just what another searcher placed … a kid [s] may have an advantage.
          Months of chatter about “show’ the poem to a child or show it to kid” and I can not find an “original” quote anywhere.

          Have you?

          • Seeker, since colloquialisms are often geographical in nature I thought it dovetailed into his comprehensive knowledge of geography statement very well.

            Using old colloquial names would make understanding the poem extremely difficult but at the same time very straight forward……I burned my book last night thinking I would see coordinates in the smoke, but nada, zip, nothing. Mindy owes me a book. 🙂

            I haven’t found anything yet on the kid statement other than the statement others have already posted. Maybe that was the only one. It seems to me he made another comment about it but I can’t find it. Like I said before, it seemed to me he was saying it in jest answering a question, so I thought folks were going way overboard with the kid statement.

          • LOL!! Hello “old yeller” (I’d call you cupcake, but that seems to offend some people).

            For what it’s worth, and I hope goof don’t take offense at me jumping in, I don’t think fenn ever said it publicly.

            I tried to run it down last year. It seems to have possibly began when a group of searchers from Iowa met with fenn at his home.
            The searchers “said” that fenn told one of them to “show it to his kids”. This meeting was in May 2012.

            I hope dal and goofy don’t get upset, but I’m going to post some excerpts and links. If anyone, anyone, can run this down further, I (as well as seeker and goofy) would be grateful.

            dal’s – Nine Clues..Part One – – began on March 23, 2013

            Chad in MN and Chad Claude (on dal’s site) are same poster??… gravatars?

            Mark Dreyer posted as “markd”, on Chase Chat.

            Group met w/ fenn in May, 2012

            Mark Dreyer Blog:
            Tony Dokoupil- Aug. 20, 2012—–…….My team was in a similar mood when I first contacted them. The four had driven down from the Iowa flatlands, three high-school buddies plus a childhood friend. Mark Dreyer, a real-estate broker had recruited his cousin Chad Claude, who runs logistics for a global frozen-food company, who in turn recruited Gary Merrill, a paramedic, and Scott Rath, who handles scheduling for a livestock operation.
            June 19, 2012, Mark Dreyer said: Forrest once told me…”your kids could find it”.

            Oct 17, 2012, 11:13 AM …….themarkd (on page 3, post #39)
            Forrest has told me, and others, personally, that it is in the Rockies north of Santa Fe. he has also told me (and my group) that our kids could literally walk to it, pick it up (assuming strength) and walk away.

            Chad Claude on August 29, 2012 at 7:35 am said:
            Hi Dal. I’m one of the four that Tony joined for a search. I liked him (and still talk to him every now and again), but after reading the story, I felt that he worked hard at just that…..

            Chad in MN on March 29, 2013 at 10:51 am said:
            For what it’s worth. We had the chance to talk to Forrest a while ago. The topics were wide and varied. One thing sticks, that I think is important for all of us to remember. He told me that I should give the poem to my kids. They’d likely find it for me. In other words, don’t make it more complicated than it is. Continental divides, inland water, outhouses, meteorlogical events – all complicated. Just my two cents. Good conversations though. I enjoy reading everyones take on the clues.

            07-16-2013, 01:54 PM, by ThrillChaser :
            The “child can get to it” is also a MarkD, 2nd-hand attribution……….”he has also told me (and my group) that our kids could literally walk to it, pick it up (assuming strength) and walk away”

            12-01-2013, 10:11 PM, Administrator
            On Precisely – revisited
            I don’t think he said a child could walk up to it. He said to show it to a child. There was a guy named Mark a couple years ago who asked if his child could walk up to it and Mark said that Forrest said yes. Then after Mark said that online….Forrest said something like he didn’t say that. So I don’t know if Mark got what Forrest said wrong or he never said it or what. I know Forrest has said to keep your children close. So I’m sort of perplexed about all that… kids are of an age they don’t want me to take them…so it’s a non issue for me.

            Chad in MN on April 5, 2013 at 7:05 am said:
            Forrest actually told me to show it to my kids. I took it to mean that I was (as usual) overthinking the process.

            Hemmingway on May 3, 2013 at 7:09 pm said:
            I believe the “ask your kids” quipp predates the nine clues series. If I recall it was info relayed from a personal email response from Forrest. So all second hand info…


            Stephanie on May 5, 2013 at 2:21 pm said:
            I’m not sure he said a child could get to it. I think the Iowa guys said that he said that and I believe he ended up saying he didn’t say that…I’m not sure. Maybe he just didn’t say it in the same way that they did, because I think I remember him correcting it. That made me think you might have to cross some water or something that not all children could do…I don’t know…but I’m not so sure he actually said a child could go to it regardless…maybe someone can find a quote from him either way

            Goofy, if this is out of line….please delete!!

            Good Luck to All!!……loco 🙂 🙂

          • Loco-
            I may be able to shed some confusion on the light you you let in-
            I have spoken with Mark Dreyer a couple of times and exchanged email with him a few more times and yes “Chad Claude” and “Chad in MN” are both screen names for Mark’s cousin who was along on the infamous Tony Dokoupil trip along the Cimarron in NM. There were many “errors” in the Dokoupil story that appeared in Newsweek in one of its final issues. But the major conflagration was not about what Dokoupil wrote but rather what Mark Dreyer had said.

            In the first conversation I had with Mark, shortly after they returned from their hunt with Dokoupil, he told me on the phone that Forrest told him that his daughter (she was very young…maybe three) could walk right up to the chest and get it, if she could lift it.
            This was very exciting information and helped all of us imagine the location of the chest. Later, on October 17th, 2012 at he wrote the following:
            “Forrest has told me, and others, personally, that it is in the Rockies north of Santa Fe. he has also told me (and my group) that our kids could literally walk to it, pick it up (assuming strength) and walk away.”
            So Mark did make that statement in spite of those who thought he did not.

            Then, on December 6th on that forum Mark wrote this:
            “In the interest of whiners here and elsewhere, I’ve deleted a couple posts, and issued a mea culpa (of sorts) on a blog. My team has ZERO beneficial information. I will not discuss it further, but will urge the “tattletales” (for lack of a better word) to relieve Mr Fenn of your footstomping and in the future, to hash issues out with the actual person you have an issue with. You know…like an adult.”

            So, what actually happened prior to December 6th is clouded. It does sound like Forrest had a talk with Mark about something he said either on his own blog or on…was this about the “kids could literally walk to it, pick it up” remark? I don’t know. Did Mark make that up? I don’t know.

            But on this blog, in march of 2013, Claude (his cousin and another member of the team with Mark when they visited Forrest) wrote this:
            “For what it’s worth. We had the chance to talk to Forrest a while ago. The topics were wide and varied. One thing sticks, that I think is important for all of us to remember. He told me that I should give the poem to my kids. They’d likely find it for me. In other words, don’t make it more complicated than it is. Continental divides, inland water, outhouses, meteorlogical events – all complicated. Just my two cents. Good conversations though. I enjoy reading everyones take on the clues.”

            So that sounds like a completely different statement about kids than what Mark said. Maybe Forrest said both..or maybe he only said one and Mark took it a different way than Claude.

            On the other hand, on his own blog on December 6th, 2012 Mark wrote a Mea Culpa that sounds a great deal like the problem was more generic in tone and he was being accused of having inside information (where have I heard this before). You can read his mea culpa here:
            What’s it all mean??
            I for one believe that Mark was telling the truth when he said that Forrest told him that his daughter could walk right up to the chest and get it, if she could lift it. But I have no evidence..only a gut feeling about Forrest and about Mark. This occurred very early on in the search. Forrest may very well have said things like this to early searchers. When the numbers were few and he was encouraging everyone. Since then Forrest has resolved not to provide information privately. Clues only come out publicly.

          • Poor Mindy. She may have to replace a lot of book with some searchers on this hunt… I think the burning needs to be done in the shower… so the images appear better. at least, less of chance of burning down the house.

            Maybe try the lemon juice or the oven? You would have to ask Chris Y. what temperature to set the oven on.

            Wasn’t there a hidden message in the glue that held the binding of the book together? Maybe it was the stitching.

            Well back to my research on codes and head pressures… there’s got to be something there! everyone talks about it so much.

          • Mindy,
            Ummm, hmmmm, not a chance! I saw your letters mindy. To me, it appeared as “glow in the dark” letters, but I tested to no avail. This is not the only subtlety, or shall I say aberration of color in ttotc, if you will. There’s the purple stamp edge on forrest’s id, these letters, the rust on the radiator, and a few others I’ve noted. I don’t discount any information, I store it. I’ve found that some aberrations I’ve found are confirmations of my solve.
            Here’s another couple fun ones, for those that indulge:
            Pg 33, one marble us a smiley face…to begin…
            Pg22, fold like the back of a mad magazine…
            Just gathering info is all. Crackpot or not! 🙂

          • Jdiggins,
            Those are a couple good ones. Here are a couple more.

            1. Pg 47 – pie isn’t yet eaten. Pg. 49 – pie is all gone.

            2. I think Pg 57 I’d drawn by JF. Look at the second little bush to right of Forrest. The J leans a little to the left. The F is lying flat. The tinier bush above it also looks like JF, but questionable.

            I believe those drawings were created with a black felt marker for a reason. Two reasons, actually. You’ll discover the second reason when you read the biography. You’ll choke on your Grapette when you read it. IMO. 🙂

          • I’ll put in official requisition for a sip of brandy.
            I rarely drink, but I may need it! 🙂

          • I’ll give another I found. There are five letters grouped together, hidden in a drawing. Google the word and you get a link that brings you to a book of short stories. It’s called Rose Leaves, by A. Alpert (or Albert).

            Read The Three Suitors if you want to know what Catcher in the Rye left out about forrests childhood. 🙂

          • @Mindy – if you squint your eyes, you might see the word “Wyoming” under the fire of the cartoon for Gypsy Magic. Reminds me of the old Highlights mag puzzles from the 70s.

          • Dang Loco, did you stay up all night looking for those?

            I’m starting to think wolf was correct that there is no Original quote to go by about “show the poem…” even with some of the same group you just mentioned, they worded what they heard differently… One thing I was taught a long time ago… An eye witness is is the wrong person to put on the stand.

            Oh right, Loco call me anything ya like, Cupcakes, sugar cookie, sweets, anything that will clog the arteries is fine by me. But I still won’t shave my legs or do my nail for ya.

          • LOL!! Thanks Dal, for shedding light on the cornfusion!! I was hoping that you would be the “anyone” who could confirm my thinking.

            So to try and put this all together, with your blessing I hope:

            There are two separate comments in question – “a child could walk up to it” and “show/give it to a child”
            Based on what I found, and what you provided, it would seem that both comments originated from the same source–> the meeting Mark D. and his group had with Forrest.

            I agree that Forrest probably told Mark, “our kids could literally walk to it, pick it up (assuming strength) and walk away.” (or something quite similar)………Forrest also clarified that statement, here:


            Question posted 6/9/2014:
            Edward, thanks for the question.
            The treasure is not hidden in a dangerous place in the normal definition of the word, realizing that there probably is no place on this planet that is safe under all conditions. Bloggers have quoted me as saying that a child could walk up to the treasure. I don’t think that’s an accurate quote because a three year old girl would have a problem without some help. Remember, I was about 80 when I hid the chest, and had to make two trips.f
            – – – – – – – – – – – –

            Along the same line, it would appear highly likely that Forrest told Chad Claude/ Chad in MN (at the same meeting): “He told me that I should give the poem to my kids.”

            I agree with what Forrest’s motivations probably were at that early of time in the Chase. I find no fault with Forrest whatsoever.

            Searchers have been throwing those comments around for years and utilizing the information.
            Forrest clarified the first with his “a three year old girl would have a problem” post.

            And, since he has never addressed any fallacy in the “show it to a kid”, IMO, it is also a true statement.

            I just wanted to find the source of the comments in order to judge, for myself, how much weight to attribute to either of them.

            Dal, if you feel this is not a logical conclusion, please delete it… hard feelings.

    • I got really excited researching Fossil Butte Wyo/ not far from Jackson, tons and tons of fossilized marine life at about 7000 ft above sea level. Was able to twist a few clues to fit, it’s so cold and blustery in the winter that the plains Indians wouldn’t stay there. The fossil pieces look a lot like the broken pottery pieces in some of Fenn’s pics.
      It’s just amazing to think that the Gulf of Mexico stretched that far north up our continent .

      • The most amazing thing about the area for me is the fact that the Yellowstone “mantle hot spot” has melted its way through most of the Rocky Mountains. A shaded relief map of the US shows this in spectacular fashion.

  7. IMO, as time goes by, the closer we are to the chest being found. IMO, I am one step closer 🙂

  8. Has anyone considered the clues in the poem that take into consideration of the mysterious writings question… And why he would not answer about whether or not the resting place of the treasure is the same as the resting place of his bones that were going to be rotting in the sun?

    • Which Q&A?
      And he has stated the place the chest lays in wait is the same place he would~ if possible, to throw himself on the chest and that would be his boldest move yet.

      I would like to know what the “important possibility” is.

      • Seeker,

        1. IMO Forrest’s statement
        “that would be my boldest move yet” is quite important and strangely contradicts his other statements…

        “Don’t go anywhere a 79 or 80 yr old couldn’t go.”

        “a 3 yr old could get there with a little help.”

        “Children may have an advantage.”

        How could returning to the treasure location be “bolder” than the sum of his fighter pilot days? something is odd.

        2. The “important possibility” IMO is to factor Forrest’s MOTHER into the solution rather than his Father.

        Other possibilities:

        Factor Peggy into solution; but doesn’t make sense f would continue to torment her with the chase knowing she feels it is a “fiasco.”

        Deceased loved one. (They lost a baby or child)

        Comrades who rescued him on the Candy Ann

        3. The chapter titles, double letters throughout ttotc are more important than most most searchers believe IMO.

        • I recall f backing away from dying there. Not denying it but leaving it open. If Peggy doesn’t want this it would be a bold and very dangerous 😉

        • @42 – re #2 and the assertion he wouldn’t torment Peggy, what if the spot has a special meaning shared only between F and Peggy, e.g. their first date or location where F proposed or perhaps (apologies) where they conceived? Sorry to keep pointing folks back to my Ulysses hypothesis, but the opposite of your assertion would absolutely fit.

          • Absolutely could be correct EC. But F has built a poem around his spouse of 62 years to honor her and she has now been threatened by greedy weirdos and calls it a fiasco – any good man would have put an end to the fiasco to honor her wishes.

            I believe it honors all the women in Forrests life but is hidden in a place near and dear because of his mom or a lost child. Again just my opinion.

          • I hesitate to say this, but I’ve always felt there was some sort of atonement going on, or maybe a ‘coming of age’ event. But I sure dont want to hear anybody chawin’ & spittin’ on that.

        • 42,

          Yes to all, well maybe not # 3. I’ll add this… no one can say for sure what an intent is or wants, can be executed. There is not positively to the action of going out and passing away… as well as, He is not a young pup anymore. the place may not be too difficult to get to, but more now at 85 and up… then at 79.

          I surly don’t bend in places I use to just 5 years ago.

          I won’t pretend to know the Fenn’s relationship, although with Forrest past activities / exploring fishing trips etc. Mrs. Fenn seems to be a very understanding woman, that we each our are own person.


          Simply there are things out of our control… But you have to wonder about this comment:

          “I thought it was the most atrocious thing that I’d ever done. But in the back of my mind I told myself if I’m sorry tomorrow I can go back and get the treasure chest.”


          What “special” place that he would hold in “High regards” and “approval”, where you would see pine trees and flowing water way, animals, smells of nature. A “kid” could go to, / a 3 year old may need some help. It was the only place that came to mind right from the start, and challenge anyone to go find it…. Etc. Etc. etc.

          And be atrocious to even think about returning and getting the chest. This one comment floored me.

          • Right Seeker,

            Forrest’s “atrocious” comment sounds more like he dumped the gold contents loose Into a bottomless pit or into a river and ditched the chest. Hypothetically,he could return to the exposed chest, but only give a title to gold, if not able to retrieve it.

            By now, any serious searcher understands that FF carefully chooses each word. I can’t find any positive slant to ATROCIOUS…

            ad. Extremely evil or cruel; monstrous: an atrocious crime.
            adj. Exceptionally bad; abominable: atrocious decor; atrocious behavior
            adj. frightful, evil, cruel or monstrous
            adj. offensive or heinous
            adj. very bad; abominable or disgusting
            adj. Extremely heinous; full of enormous wickedness.
            adj. Characterized by, or expressing, great atrocity.
            adj. Very grievous or violent; terrible.

            For a while it was a hobby, now any desire to search has passed. Personally I never believed a collector would surrender a priceless gift of friendship like the Mayan necklace from Wolf & Wen Ann to a red neck stranger. A collector either donates to a museum or “takes it with him” just like Forrest stated repeatedly he was going to do.

    • James-
      I believe Seeker is correct. Forrest has stated on more than one occasion that the place where he was going to end his life and the place where the chest is hidden are one in the same.

  9. A topic which was lightly discussed 18 months ago should be given top billing in everyone’s solution.

    This is a huge and generous Give- Away that took me a year to see and prove.

    If you have a completed solution wirh longitude and latitude coordinates – that you need to find the treasure – here is one way to test if your solution works…

    The large BOLD capital letters which begin each chapter in TTOTC are all directional Symbols taken from a “32 point” Mariners Compass rose. True north is Tramontana. Yet another confirmation to Montana. NSEW plus Latin terms for secondary, tertiary directions. (See example linked)

    IF you know where to BEGIN, halt at the correct “section 32” on a surveyors or FS map; plot a cross;
    You can literally follow those directions in order from TTOTC which end at ssw or Ostro-Libeccio on a Mariners wind rose.

    I hope the deeper thinking, serious searchers will use it to prove their theories.

    Keep in mind, Forrest is a navigator, collector, surveyor and loves old treasures. This is the compass that pirates and Spaniards used. >>It pays to study the brilliant man who hid the treasure.<<

    Everything is in the poem, but ttotc was provided as a supplement and is FULL of helpful information.

    • Well if the poem is the answer, and the answer is IN the poem, and fenn only knows the answer, would maybe a key word be answer/s? There was a big dispute on the word answer with and without a “S”. Maybe that is why it will work with or without an S, because its still the answer, and we missed the point of the answer being “answer” because we only wanted to know if the “s” was relevant or not. Meaning we all put so much emphasis on something we didnt know was correct or not, yet completely moved away from the word itself and its key to the poem..

      Answer/s has all the directions N, S, W, E. But SW is together. SouthWest.
      Anser is a bird, or specifically geese, or goose. Technically this is a wild goose chase if the answer is in the poem. Has anyone searched Goose lake? I would imagine that is a hot-spot
      Resawn= in the wood
      And of course Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything = 42.
      Answer is a Marvel Comics Character.

      If the answer he already knows, then he had to find out somehow right? So I cant imagine that FF did not do any research at all in order to construct and build this entire poem and chase. He had to make it fit, and that means he had to research a ton to gain the knowledge that would eventually allow him to plant this treasure into 1 tiny spot on the globe, that matched up perfectly with what he wrote about.

      • Ever ask, “so why is it I must go…” in relationship to “As I have gone alone…” They seem to be the same, Right?

        “And leave my trove for all…” in relation ship to, “and with my treasures bold” Seems the same as well.

        Can, “I keep my secret where…” relate to ” the answers I already know” seem the same again?

        What is tired and weak? and what is the next line in the poem?

        IMO… there is a lot of information folks do not related to in the poem. … Last time I promise… are we reading the poem wrong… attempting to break it down into step by step.

      • Hammertime,

        Of course all things = 42…

        I believe you are spot on. Maybe SW Montana, SW point of compass rose, or SW corner of 4 corners.

        However, I doubt ff did much research. He played with words and the layout of poem layers for years.

        It’s my exucated belief that ff has a perfect visual memory, and as professional psycholigists have stated, has a genius level IQ.

        He may have simply drawn upon years of stored knowlege. The poem has 8 or 9 layers (perhaps more), maps, diagrams, multiple languages, numeric references, music, key dates – IMO -and some are simply for his own entertainment.

        • I can agree with most of it, but it seems very unlikely that he didn’t put forth research. Especially with there being several layers. There is a lot that can be funneled into that many layers or words if each word looks, but means something different each time you use it.. I also think that since it says new and old that he put the most recent(at that time) knowledge and then the old folks knowledge. This gives searchers of all ages the same advantage. Unless someone knows everything then, you will most likely have to hop on the brain train.

  10. Chris, a CROSS is the same as an X on a map, and often what the Spaniards used to mark NEAR treasure,but never right at the treasure.
    I believe F did the same, and also utilized a natural X created where a trough meets a canyon.

    Start by plotting your X and Y axis for NS and EW. Center point will be map section 32; also WWWH; and a basin.

    This is where you begin the journey down a canyon. [Forrest said if you don’t know where to begin, you may as well stay home and play canasta]. In Canasta 3 & 2 are wild.

    From section 32 follow the poems instructions… Canyon down etc.

    My theory is that if you are correct you can cross reference with F’s nautical compass rose directions found in TTOTC.

    • Thanks 42. On one hand I find this way too complicated based on what Forrest has said about the treasure/poem etc. On the other hand, I looked at a map of my area and it is smack dab in section 32. Coincidence? Maybe.

    • 42, I understand the 32 points of the rose compass, but what I don’t understand is why you think the number 32 has any meaning regarding the treasure or poem, or why it corresponds to a section 32 on the map? It seems like a pretty big extrapolation. Just curious…

      • Just a few…

        A refraction of #23? plot his father is buried at

        Freezing water at 32 degrees =warm water halting

        32 is the atomic number of (German)ium, (WWII) =(WWH)

        32 # re(tired) Jim (Brown)s Number from Cleveland (Browns) was 32

        32 is the number of completed, numbered piano sonatas by Ludwig van Beethoven, who doesn’t love the piano??

        32, The number of teeth of a full set of teeth in an adult human, Grins and smiles

        32, The number of pages in the average comic book, C’mon!

        32, In chess, the total number of black squares on the board, the total number of white squares, and the total number of pieces (black and white) at the beginning of the game, Queen, King, Bishop, Rooks, etc…

        Although the (Buffalo Bills) have not officially re(tired) #32, they have not issued it since Hall of Famer (O. J. Simpson)(chase) was traded from the team in 1977. Pretty thrilling chase that included a gold and a brown…

        32 # re(tired) The Utah Jazz, for Hall of Famer Karl M(alone). just for giggles…

          • Uken2it I am not sure exactly what 1li means but if you substitute each number for the alphabet for the ayeyaiyai song thing you get…

            AYE = 1, 25, 5
            YAI = 25, 1, 9

            you can then get:
            (1×2) x (5+5) = 20
            (2-5 x 1 + 9) = 6
            (2-5 x 1 + 9) = 6

            = 32


          • spallies,
            AYE = 1, 25, 5 = 1+25+5=31
            YAI = 25, 1, 9 = 35
            YAI = 25, 1, 9 = 35
            Add them together ant you get IOI
            May mean laugh out load but I believe I’ve seen this on the threads

    • But, we don’t know if he used a Native American X rather than a Spaniard X. I have a Native American map handed down in my family (Spanish/German Ancestry) and the X is drawn using significant topography markers (peaks, etc.). Native American’s also used other indicators (more than one or two identifiers) to hide items).

      • Okay, I’ll share more about Native American maps. They used valleys, petroglyphs, water and boulders as indicators after you find the general area. You start with the topography markers then use the other markers to narrow your X. Hope this helps.

  11. Mindy, I agree. My entire solution fit when I took Forrest’s MW advice to shift away from Father; and began looking for Lilly, Mom, twin letters, mirror locations etc. Forrest likely honored Peggy, but the location hinge pin is Lilly Fenn IMO.

    • I agree. Here is some information about Lilly that I first found upon the initial part of the journey with my son:

      Lilly Gay Simpson Fenn

      Born: March 20, 1908
      Died: October – 1979

      Hillcrest Cemetary
      Temple Bell County, Texas ~

      S LF

      • SLF – it’s heartbreaking that she passed away in Cameron alone. I wonder why M. Fenn wasn’t with her at the time? Of interest regarding details is that there are mirtor locations known as Cameron in SW Montana. I’ve searched hundreds of property docs including homestead, mineral rights, LLC, trusts, conservation…
        in 3 Montana counties looking for Lilly Simpson/Fenn and her mother Arie for ownership under numerous names – all to no avail.

        Have given up the chase but willing to help others by disclosing info – when I have time.

        • 42-
          They were together having lunch, October 3, 1979. She had a heart attack. Mavin drove her to the hospital in Ennis. But she was gone..

          • Dal, thank you for clearing that up. Its a relief knowing she was with her husband.

            Some reporter, maybe Dukopli, had his info wrong and stated she was alone in a trailer in Cameron.

  12. Here’s a (perhaps) troubling thought: Forrest has said that some relatively small number of searchers (anybody have any guesses on how many?) have figured out the first two clues correctly. I don’t know what the latest estimates are on the number of people who have been searching, but it’s certainly in the tens of thousands. Perhaps over 100,000? So here’s a question for Dal or Goofy: roughly how many unique people have posted here over the years? I’m guessing it’s less than a thousand, judging from the tens of thousands of posts I’ve read. So all things being equal (which, of course, they may well NOT be), the odds that one of the “first-two-clues-right” people is among us would not appear to be very good, would it?

    • And this is why I scraped my first set of clues which was pretty much the same as most serachers
      2.canyon down
      after i did that it was time to get down to business.

    • Well Zap, it’s all subjective, and would be only a guess. The number of folks that have solved the first two clues seems to have grown over time listening to his comments. I have no idea how many that would be.

      I would guess it’s easily over a 100,000 people that have searched over the years, perhaps several times that. How many of those are “serious” searchers I have no idea.

      I don’t know how many unique people have posted here. Very few of the visitors we have actually make a comment……To date we’ve had 98,548 comments out of 6,067,520 hits.

      Again, all of this is subjective; and all things are not equal. I would think the odds of someone here being one of the “200-300 footers” are pretty good. It’s probably one of the commenters but almost certainly one of the regulars even if they don’t post much.

      I would think very few of the folks that search send Fenn their solutions or locations. Of those that do there are several that have got the first two clues correct…..extrapolate that percentage (whatever it is) out to the total population of searchers and it could be many thousands of people that have correctly solved the first two clues.

      Totally subjective thoughts on my part.

      • Not that it matters… lets use that 100,000 searchers. and just quarter that for each state and we have 25,000 searchers. only one state is correct so, lets bring that down to 1/2 for botg searchers @ 12,500. Just for good measures Cut it in 1/2 again for any error and fairness, That would 6250 searcher and at a very scant percentage of 1% ~ 62.5 percent [ .5 can be the little 3 year old if ya like ] Now even cut that number in half because we know of two clues and maybe 1/2 of that 62 was only at one clue… seems fair and reasonable. That is 31 active botg searchers, in correct state, correct first two clues… and still no chest. Even at that very small number from the overall view of 100,0000… 31 searchers may have not understood the significance, and / or may not have known they had the first two clues and went right by?

        I don’t care what you think the first clue may be… What is wrong with that picture?

        Possibilities [ add more if you like ]
        1. No one knew the first clue. And possibly both clues. and just were is the right place.
        2. they all didn’t get the importance of where they were at.
        3. The third clue is harder than the first two.
        4. Someone… at least one knew the first clues and screwed up on the next seven.
        5. The never found the alien egg. [ that’s right I said it… sue me… lol ]
        6.. They kept going.

      • Thanks, Goofy, for the blog hit stats. Most impressive! As with most blogs, there are far more “lurkers” than there are posters. If I’m remembering correctly, there are really two separate issues here: having the first two clues right, and being within 200 feet of the treasure. A lot of people seem to be assuming that the two are the same thing, but I think that’s a mistake. I don’t believe Forrest ever said that. A more honest summary of his statements about this would be:
        1. Some number of people, likely in multiple independent groups, have gotten the first two clues right
        2. Some number of people have been within ~200 feet of the treasure
        3. If the first two clues don’t put you within 200 feet of the treasure, then it is likely that not all of the people in the first group are in the second group — and possibly NONE of them is

        If the first 2 clues don’t put you within a few hundred feet of the treasure, *and* no one has gotten the third clue correct, then it would seem that all the people in the second group passed close to the treasure purely by happenstance. (Of course, this begs the question of how Forrest would know this.)

        • Seeker and Zap – that’s exactly what I’ve been thinking all along. That just because you have reported to Forrest being in a general area of Indulgence, doesn’t mean you knew it. And likewise, a person could report to Forrest their solve of the clues and he could then report with clear conscience to the rest of us that at least one person has solved the first two clues. They could be and probably are, mutally exclusive.

          One would suspect that if a person knew that they had the first two clues right, then one would also then suppose that they used that information to get close to Indulgence. But we have no way of knowing that.

          All we know is; 1. At least one person has been within 200 feet of Indulgence and 2. at least one person has solved the first two clues. Beyond that is speculation, in my opinion.

          • Just me guessing here but could be that the ones that solved the first two were driving by on a road, he says “They went right by it” the 200ft comment seems unrelated to that group. Then again maybe the 200ft person had solved more than 2 clued an F just unaware of it OR hadn’t technically been informed.

          • @Fred – or a shoreline, like the Great Wall on Yellowstone Lake, or an island like Stevenson or Dot. Certainly “too far to walk” would make sense in such an assertion.

          • Here is some more speculation – I am uncertain at this time, if solving the first two clues will get me within 200 feet of Indulgence, as I have not finished my research as to a starting point. My gut reaction is that it does not. I suspect the starting point discerned from the first couple of clues is further than 200 feet from the end of the chase – but that’s my opinion.

          • On the question of whether the first 2 clues are likely to get you within 200 feet of the treasure, if all the clues have similar weight or importance, then the obvious mathematical answer would be NO. Here’s my back-of-the-envelop calculation, assuming that getting within a 10-foot radius of Indulgence would be sufficient to find it:

            Approximate search area: 250,000 square miles
            Target area: 314 square feet = 0.00001127 square miles
            Area ratio: 22.2 billion to 1

            Average area reduction required per clue for 9 clues to reduce the 250,000 square miles to 314 square feet: 14.1

            In other words, if each clue had the same effectiveness in reducing the search area, then clue 1 would reduce the 250,000 square miles to around 17,700 squares miles, clue 2 would reduce that further to 1257 square miles, clue 3 to 89 square miles, and so on.

            Now obviously the clues are not all equally effective, and in all likelihood several of them work in conjunction with one another to establish the “starting point.” But it still seems very unlikely that just two clues (that don’t involve specific place names) could winnow you down to within a couple hundred feet, but that it would then take 7 additional clues to walk you in from there.

          • If it is true that 2 clues have gotten folks within a few hundred feet and they just walked right past the other clues, there would be no more need to reduce the search are by those amounts, right? I sure wish f was a bit more certain when using words but I guess he is very certain but not giving us certainty. ;^)

        • “I don’t know of anyone that’s inside of 200 ft, but you know, I don’t know, they tell me where they are, and some of them exactly where they are, and so that’s how I know that. But so many of them tell me that they’re in a spot that’s in close proximity to the treasure, but they don’t know that they’re that close to it”

          “Dear Forrest,
          Now that the 2014 search season has ended, can you summarize the results? Ie: is anyone close to the treasure chest? Has anyone given you a solve? Thanks, puttputt.
          I know of a few searchers who have been reasonably close to the treasure puttputt, but there is no indication that they knew it. No one has given me the correct solve past the first two clues.f”

          Seeing this topic is getting more attention, maybe we should find the quotes, comment, Q&A’s… line them up so, we don’t get turned around with wrong searchers comments. Puttputt’s question was 2014 and I know the other comment go much farther back. So a refresher course may help… so to speak.

          These are the first two that I had at the ready… anyone else want to chime in?
          Footnote: the first comment is older and I do not have the full context… it was a tidbit that I kept thinking it would be important for me to review later. Apologies that I don’t have when it was stated.

          • A couple more;

            Dear Forrest,
            You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:
            a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
            b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
            Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve
            No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?
            Your question reminds me of another:  You leave home and walk a straight line for a mile, turn 90 degrees left and walk a curved line for a mile and shoot a bear. Then you turn 90 degrees left again and walk a straight line back to your home. What color is the bear?f

            “In your dictionary, what’s an aberration? ~Serge Teteblanche
            I don’t have a dictionary but my personal definition is “Something different.” I like that word.
            When I was a kid there was a commonly used word. Crean, and it described the condition a car could get into when it ran into a ditch and the frame twisted a little, preventing the doors from opening. Modern autos are more sturdy so I guess that word was retired. I can’t find it anywhere now.f” [ this one was interesting to me and just thought I share it… The man loves to twist words, don’t ya think?]

            ‘There have been some who have been within 500 feet because they have told me where they have been. Others have figured the first two clues and went right past the treasure and didn’t know it.’
            [This one puts two clues with a possible association with the chest… yet how close the two clues to the chest are, is still debatable]

          • Mr. Fenn: In the past when you have said that several people had figured out the first two clues and then went right past the other clues, would you say that they got lucky and just happened to go to the correct starting area, not fully understanding the poem, or would you say that they did indeed solve the first two clues by understanding the poem and clues? C

            Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues. Although others were at the starting point I think their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem. Playing a hunch is not worth much in the search and those who start out by looking for the blaze, are wasting their time.f

          • Seeker – most excellent data mining – thanx for sharing! In my opinion, more folks should pay attention to Forrest’s comment about looking for the blaze before solving the poem.

          • Great refresher, Seeker! I had not read before the question about whether knowing the treasure was north of Santa Fe and solving “Where Warm Waters Halt” would be sufficient to get you to the right location. I’m very glad to read Forrest’s response that they aren’t. This is completely consistent with his other statement that “there are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts.” In other words WWWH is a necessary condition, but it isn’t a *sufficient* condition.

  13. When you or I find the treasure, I would like Forrest Fenn to personally fly to West Yellowstone in his plane & fly the special one(s) back to Santa Fe NM to find out what we can do with the treasure & what I or you can do with our lives to make this world a better place. Hope he still has the ability to fly, but i am sure he would be up for the task & I would be proud, able & willing to take that flight of a lifetime. I know I would quit my job & search the San Lazaro with Fenn just for the thrill of it.

    • Jake, FYI, Forrest hasn’t had a pilot’s license since before he hid the treasure. The timeline is somewhere here on this blog but I don’t remember where. As far as I know, Forrest does not own a plane anymore. (Also on this blog about him selling one and getting ripped off with a bad check.) He did write a scrapbook on this blog about renting a plane at the SF airport and having his grandson Shiloh fly him to Suzanne Somers’ husband’s birthday party in Palm Springs last spring 2014.

  14. Hello. I am new to the chase. A few weeks ago my niece asked if I had heard about Forrest Fenn and his bronze chest, particularly because I happen to live in one of the 4 states where Fenn says his treasure can be found. Something seemed familiar about the story, and so I went in search of news articles, which then led me here. Yes, I had heard something in passing some time ago, I wrote my niece, but the story has truly piqued my interest now, I told her.

    I congratulate Dal for maintaining this site, and I want to tip my cap to all of the hunters out there who have come before me. Your stories are compelling, heartfelt, and beautiful.

    I may only make one trek in search of the gold, which may come within a week or so. My “solve”, as you put it here, lies before me like an odyssey. My reading of the poem tells me that Mr. Fenn is not merely a clever man. The journey he has outlined is a spirit quest. And the one person who figures it all out will have followed in Fenn’s footsteps, literally and figuratively, and will then have a story, as well as obligations, that he will understand.

    • Good luck to you PTF! Flying in from the Coast for my first attempt Sep 30th or Oct 1st. Would be a kick if we met near the blaze.

      • And good luck to you, too, SCB! It would indeed be a kick to meet near the blaze…. depending, of course, on where “in” is that you are flying to. Cheers!

        • Thank you PTF. Let’s just say I picked up a vibe from your post and agree with what you implied. IMHO, Forrest Fenn’s poem will be studied in classrooms for generations.

          My name is Dave and I should get there late afternoon/early evening Sep 30th or just start fresh early on the 1st if you want some company.

          • Dave, I really don’t think Fenn’s poem is a literary masterpiece. But I do think it is something of a Rorschach test for readers, especially those readers who are emotionally invested in the quest. It’s not the kind of poem that I would have brought it into the college classroom back when I was teaching. However, it might work wonderfully for youngsters in the elementary grades.

            I will go in there alone. When I come out, I hope to go straight to the bank to get one of those security deposit boxes.

            Cheers and good luck!

          • PTF,

            I stand by my comment. It will be a great tool for teachers in classrooms. Analyze the use of Fenn’s carefully crafted poem. How the poem reads one way to trick the mind into accepting what it wants to hear. I can’t find a single word to change in order to improve it.

            Can you see teachers challenging groups of kids to create their own treasure map and clues? It’s an opportunity for kids to use their minds while having fun.

            Of course, this can be done with or without the poem, but the poem together with Fenn’s story has real possibility to reach young minds and inspire them to do something greater.

            end mini-rant/

            Be safe out there PTF

          • Yes, Dave, I could definitely see a teacher having students make poem maps leading to . . . well, rewards of some kind. I would have loved doing that when I was a kid. I was the kind of kid who buried things in the back yard just to dig them up a week later. Cheers, PTF

    • The One that has many obligations. Thought to define the answer in ones quest. Who knows the path that must be taken and the result of the find. Obligation to all treasure hunters and the man That created this all.The One will find they must respect this world and everything in it. How will this be done? in time I’m sure we will all find out. But your right Poetreasurefish. The one will observe everything and see what others do not. And will fully understand the path to seek. Welcome to the Chase have fun and be safe out there. Try not to let things in your mind make pieces fit. Its a easy catch in the brain to know where it is when it is not there. It is somewhere. From my experience as a deeply involved searcher I have made things fit because they did in my mind. The Brave part can cause trouble so think first before you do. If I were the one I would wait just a few until the right time and pieces came together say a month or less. Either way its a win win for the creator of this quest. As he has thought of everything probable a thousand times over and over. He knows the out come and how many different ways it could be dealt. There for as Forrest says, You get four aces and a joker you then go and play your part. Or something to that affect. There is great value on the journey. You will find peace please make sure you slow down and enjoy that piece of the experience of the Thrill of the Chase. Think think learn learn enjoy enjoy the wilderness and all its beauty. Stay safe and be prepared. J B

      • Interesting. IMO Beyond respect for the world and everything in it, is respect for individuals. Things change over time. From the conception of the TC plan to its placement at the “spot” to the number of searchers – things have changed and developed. Respect for individuals is just as important in God’s world as is the mountains and rivers. There is actually an obligation by everyone involved. Respect of individuality in privacy and patience for “the story”, for safety, for artifact preservation. Trust that ff and the finder(s) some day will provide the information as it is prudent and wise. The person who finds the TC has thought and thought and studied; trust that that person will in his/her own time get the story told and not assume that they are greedy and hiding from the IRS, etc.–perhaps they would want to hide from “us” some day when that day comes. Trust ff that the object really is the “thrill of the chase” and not “the loot of the chase”. I guess it might be enough some day to hear that it was found (when and if that happens) and that the story/information will unfold by the one who found it as he/she wishes to tell his/her solve. Courtesy would be good when the time comes to the finder(s) and to the one who set the puzzle in motion and to the love of his life (Peggy) and his family. I find some of the comments about events above this post rather disturbing and that the use of “fiasco” meaning “enough is enough” a little peace would be great. Thanks, J B

        • Kathryn, thanks for calling to attention my comment about ‘fiasco’, as it gives me a chance to clarify my line of thought and apologize to Forrest. I own it, my comment did sound hurtful but was never intended to be so. I’ve been called a ‘moron’ and ‘idiot’ for my ideas here. It’s never welcome or productive.

          Obvisously, everyone here who is invested in following the chase and Forrest, believes he is a good guy who hid the treasure, or we’d be long gone. I’ve spent 1000’s of dollars and thousands of hours over the past 18 months. I’m done searching, but sign on now and then hoping to be helpful to others.

          My line of reasoning focussed on my belief that Forrest did not ‘only’ hide the chest as a tribute to Peggy alone. The poem clearly honors her and many family members by name. Example: Four lines end in old (he has 4 grandchildren with the last name Old). Char Alread’s name is hidden as well.

          I was trying to convey… in hiding indulgence, imo, Forrest has multiple, deeply important reasons. If his only reason was honoring his love of 60+ years, any good/Reasonable man would have called a halt to the chase after his wife was threatened and called it a fiasco (quote from a searcher named Cindy who attended a gathering and quoted Peggy).

          IMO the poem honors all of his family, but there is additionally a dearly held reason behind ff’s actions. Possibilities could include spiritual, loss of a child, honoring his rescuers on the Candy Ann, etc. Perhaps All of the above. Only Forrest knows the answer(s). It’s his secret.

  15. Dad was a truly contented fly fisherman. – Solitude; (Querencia)…. is what “alone in there” meant to him ~


  16. Just my take on one of the nine clues –

    “The answer I already know” = knowledge = ‘ know’ ‘ledge’ as in “I know it’s on a ledge”…?

    – Wisconsin Mike

    • Hi Mike,
      Sure it could be on a ledge but what prompts you to add the word “ledge” to know? Seems out of context/random.

      It sounds like you are pulling from a book story somewhat arbitrarily.

      Is there a rational behind this?

      • Colo Kid,

        Just interpreting the words Forrest used to be the definition of the word “Knowledge”. He’s already used the work “know”, so I wasn’t adding the word “ledge”, it’s just part of the definition. One could, of course, interpret the word “knowledge” as “No Ledge”, but that’s not much help! LOL!

        I’ve got a few of the other clues figured out differently than most on the blogs…and biding my time to declare them.

        – Wisconsin Mike

  17. In reviewing some of the photos from yesterday, I believe I may have the TC resting place in a photo. Next time that I get to search… (fingers crossed). From what I surmise, this could be it. Only time will tell.

      • I may get back up there this weekend. I am not sure as of yet. Wouldn’t that be a hoot to find the chest and present him with the bracelet at the book signing on Monday? I think I’d be beside myself and shaking in my shoes!

        • Yes it would be, but you might want to consider doing the return in private instead of I front of people with cameras! Just saying.

      • Research would show that I search Colorado. My spot tends to be with me once I leave my house. I have been to my search area so dang much that it feels like home. Dine there, I have. Behaved badly, not. Lived a little, much. When I was coming down from my high, I nearly crashed. Well, I shouldn’t say nearly. I didn’t crash nor come close to it, but I did scare myself. I had to catch my breath on that one. Maybe I will share that little episode with f.

    • Good luck Slurbs! Sorry about messing up your name yesterday. (I said Blurb, only one letter off.) 🙂

  18. being unable to read all of the posts here I humbly submit a few stray thoughts.
    Sometime ago Forrest related a story about x amount of dollars per inch. ( thinking back to his story about selling paintings ) While battling a sever migraine it occurred to me that the value of the chest will change with the economic and the rarity of things it may contain. The thing that really struck me was the dimensions of the chest will never change.

    What if the dimensions of the chest were pointing to the altitude of the chest?
    At this moment trying to focus on the required research and math is out of the question for me. So I toss this out there for you all to consider.

    • Hi Chad,

      Sounds like a chicken/egg story.

      Forrest told us that he had the place in mind right from the start and he never considered another spot. So for this to work either he had to hunt for a chest with perfect dimensions to match the altitude or it was just a miraculous coincidence that the chest dimensions related to the location he had in mind. And if we had the altitude (and nothing else), well, we still have not narrowed things down much.

      I’ll guess they are unrelated.

    • I did find this from Dal:
      on August 26, 2011 at 7:37 pm said:
      I think 44lbs is a reliable weight. Bronze and gold are pretty heavy metals. I have also heard dimensions of the chest as about 10 inches on a side and 5 inches deep. Its not you’re cute little jewelry box.

  19. All,

    For the most part, not all, today’s posts on this thread made me want to puke (IMO).

    At the time of this post there were 54 entries. Most were “nothingness” (IMO).

    Come on ya’ll. A few of us shared meaningful thoughts the other day and had great dialogue/feed-back going, and now we are back to sifting through codes, ciphers and circles.

    IMO ( Again)

    Scott W.

    • Hey Scott –

      Ya ought to come on over to TTOTC – we’ve got someone telling us they are going to post their great solve (cuz they can’t get there) in 6 days – then tonight the idiot – posts where he thinks it is and it’s not even in The Rocky Mountains. Really……

      • I’ve been to TTOTC and posted there, but I can’t figure out how to navigate by topic. It appears to me that everything is organized only by stanza and that doesn’t work for my brain.

        Perhaps I don’t see the proper organization of the site.

        Without even going there to look – is this the guy out in east NM on Dry Cimmarron Creek?

        Scott W.

    • Hi Scott, I liked your recent idea and enjoyed reading about the Salt River Range and how it can be just as nice a YNP without all the fuss. Haystack Mountain caught my eye! I bookmarked it and it is on my WY/MT search area once I’m done with NM and SW CO! I’ve been trying real hard to detox and take a break from the daily posting and commenting, (obsessing). I really need to pick up the book again and try to read through it once more….I do enjoy your post/ideas….personally I was braising for a big announcement that the TC had been found but so far nothing….As of right now I’m still a poem purist and keep it simple on a kid level….no codes. Enjoyed Desert P’s video today, any one else feel there are 2 words in the poem that could be removed or what ever he meant? Something to think about I guess. Bumming that I really can’t swing a visit to SF this next Monday, just not the right time for my team…..will be a blast I’m sure, chance to meet so many folks from the chase….. thought about having ff sign the map, then get it framed!

  20. Scott W. Here ( ) is a virtual barf bag for your inconvenience.

    Actually, I emailed Dal a portion of my solution tonight asking him to post it.

    Hopefully, it will open a few in-depth conversations. It may be wrong but, it’s well thought out, logical and interesting information -not yet presented on the blogs.

  21. I’ve been seeing a lot of users I don’t recognize lately.

    I would like to share one of my favorite map sites for searching by name.

    I prefer to use the “alphabet” search by letter so I don’t miss anything, but you can just type in a place name or word. I find the later doesn’t work as well.

    For instance, if I wanted to look up Mulberry Fork of the Warrior River, I would go to “M”, then “Mu” and drill down from there.

    By the way, The Mulberry is a great canoe trip. Done it many times. Just used it as an example.

    Scott W.

  22. Thanks Scott that’s good info. New searchers and old searchers with new names. Probably oughtknot of said that.

    • So when I get a crazy itch that WWWH is a place that is named Thirtytwo something, I go to the map above and go to “T” and then “Th”. Then I search through the “numbered” pages for what I am looking for.

      The reason is that there may be a ThirtyTwo, Thirty Two, and a Thirty-two. Way better results searching that way rather than just typing in “Thirty Two”.


      • Come on Scott that is way too complicated… haven’t ya heard of KiSS. I mean seriously?? Thirty two, Thirtytwo, “Thirty two”

        Simplify man, simplify… 3 2 or 32 or 16 + 16 = 32. I’m sure there is a X in there some where, but I failed algebra.

        Ok kidding aside, here’s a couple of name for ya. Sheep and coffin.

  23. 9/11 in my thoughts and prayers always. I’ve often wondered if Forrest wrote his poem as a tribute of sorts. 9 clues to 11.

  24. The following comment is IMO or belief… Without checking or searching all of the chapters of this Nine thread, my imagination is telling me that someone has mentioned Henry IIIX. Regardless, I think there is a connection to Henry. Who else would have that kind of imagination? I am certain that Henry IIIX has a connection to the Chase…. Keep in mind the IMO and my imagination. Clue or hint? You be the judge.

      • Swwot, thanks for the correction. Ouch! I think I need to reserve the right to be wrong sometimes like f. It’s hard for me to believe that I flubbed that up so bad, but I did! Yes, I meant Henry VIII. Sort for the confusion and THANK YOU for questioning my comment. The last thing I would want to do is go off course. Whew!

  25. Ha! I’ve figured it out! it’s in Fenn’s bathroom! WWWH is his shower, Canyon is the tub…Hob is obviously the toilet… 80 year old on the toilet.. definitely no place for the meek.. heavy loads a high water mean flushing the toilet … you’d have to look quickly down other wise you’ll miss the marvel gaze … chest is in the under the sink!

  26. Is anyone else assembling a key?

    **My OPINION only**

    DIRECTIONAL KEY to following NSEW in poem.

    Needs to be tested against your own solution. Simply ideas.

    If using Poem as map,
    True North is top of page.

    N=is not North in poem unless paired with no, ne, now
    now=North West
    S, SS=easiest way because its a water way (from Spanish treasure maps)
    ea = waterway (ea is Spanish for Espania Aqua – used on Pirate maps
    Quest=line of direction(?west or east)
    to ease (going east in poem)

    More E’s in poem than NSW

    Fenn says he’s very spiritual. Traditionally, in many faiths East refers to deity, eternity.

      • i solved it through a stroke of luck to start me off…but that won’t help you much so I would say.

        don’t even THINK about any of the other clues until you have solved WWWH. if you can’t solve WWWH or you get bored and start looking at the rest you are wasting your time.

        the secret to solving WWWH is to really really THINK

      • solve WWWH, but this clue also leads you back to where you begin. when you get to the end you will know you are at the start..BUT you can’t jump in at any other point in the circle as you won’t know you are correct.

  27. Just wondering if there might be some type of similarity/coincidence with the Thrill of the Chase to Three’s Company? They both have TC and have a Chase. The TTOTC photo of Suzanne Sommers and FF in the front of the book looks cute because they both are smiling (showing teeth) and cuddling. I read one of the scrapbooks where FF talks about his teeth and shows a photo of him not smiling. In another scrapbook, he talks about his slippers that he named Cuddles. Just wondering about this because of the titles….IMO.

    • Maybe a possibility . There are the Rope(r),s and Knotts(Furley) and you also have a Wood(Janet) and then you have Snow(Suzanne ). Maybe WWH is snow..I love this show..hilarious !!

      • Mid seventies, Saturday night 9 pm mountain. Right after happy days and Laverne and shirley. I couldn’t watch it then, 9 was my bedtime. 🙂

  28. several- more than 2 but less than many<——————————

    one blaze, 2 blaze, 3 blaze….four,<——————————

    one brown, 2 brown, 3 brown, four<——————————————-

    but how many canyons, creeks, waters, loads, water highs?<——————

    the poem is soooooo clever that I needed to be drunk to figure it out….and I listened to good to an academic at the University of Cambridge during a speech this summer.

    Imagine being pished on red wine listening to an academic speaker over dinner and the guy says 3 things that make my hair stand up on the back of my neck, to the point where i KNOW how to unlock the whole thing…..2 hours later on my laptop in my "dorm" I figure the whole shebang out. 4 weeks later and I am on a 10 hour flight with a backer who's in for a cut.

    its such a work of art, and you need to be a little crazy to figure it out..

    lets just say that i always hated maths….and that's one of the reasons why I figured this codes or enigma style shizzle will help in this riddle.

    an evaluator and critical thinker are required on this one…..that and a bit of imagination and craziness..that's why I am a good geographer

      • the “when” is not actually important. if someone asks you the follwing-

        they have 2 counters which they place in a bag…..they then add another 2 counters… know the answer is 4. you don’t need to empty the bag to know your correct.

        the final bit is where he makes you “earn it”.

        plus someone may have beat me to it.

    • Mrmagica

      Been searching for 4 years, currently on my eighth trip into the mountains. Do you need a ride from the airport Monday? I will be coming from Colorado Springs to Santa Fe, happy to give u a ride. If you have the solve, do you also have the chest? A lot of us would be relieved if this think is actually finally found. Spent about 6 hours today looking in my latest location. Alas, was not there.

      PS My daughter studies at KIngs College and she could use some money because London is so expensive….Cheers.

      joncal1964 at yahoo dot com

  29. if 100 people tell me that “you can’t go wrong with bricks and mortar” in 2004 and property always goes up in price…..I am the one person that will argue with the lot of them

    i never believe anyone,
    i always do my due diligence on things and research myself before i make a decision
    i a the type of guy that question as to why my dentist is filling each tooth. and most of the time,,,,i am right to question such things

    that is the mindset you need to figure the poem out

  30. and ff is correct…..the person that solves it will want the whole world to know they figured it out..

    i couldn’t give a toss about the money

    I just want to inspire my students to really THINK

    • Mr…..are you saying you found the treasure or that you solved the poem?? Because I am not following what you.

      • I have 100% solved the riddle to a point that is as far as the riddle takes you.

        he takes you to an “area” that is pretty accurate…..maybe the size of 3 football fields or a little larger.

        then he tells you HOW to use your imagination in the final area….but due to the nature of the final area it takes time or luck to search it thoroughly. the i=final area is all about imagination and subjectivity.

        I flew from the UK this summer.

        I didn’t find the treasure but I did find something else that I sent ff pictures of….2 days later he said he was doing his CBS interview.

        I was posting under a different name but I have been restricted in my comments by mods on this site…

        Geography teacher from the UK has figured it out, ff has been emailing me and he knows I have it down to the area.

        • I used my imagination in the correct way in the final area and I believe someone has already found it…………
          this is based on what i found and what i saw

        • Mr. This makes no sense because Fenn says you will go with confidence when you have solved the puzzle…..we all think we have solved it when we first start…then you realize that you have not. Some never admit they are wrong….but unless you have the chest you have not solved the poem.

          • I understand why you think like this but you dont understand…let me help.

            when you solve the clues you are 100% you are correct…you move with confidence 100%..he takes you from “somewhere” to an area the size if 3 football fields in LESS than 24 lines in the poem….that is VERY PRECISE.

            the clues take you to an area, and the last clues tell you what to look for.

            you could solve the poem 100% but not “see”/be wise what you are looking for. you are trying to “see” something very specific in a sea of randomness in the final area off the trail.

            I have solved the poem 100%…..and I don’t need to find the chest to know that because of 2 reasons

            1. because someone has already removed it

            2. because i didn’t happen to see what i was looking for in the final area…that doesn’t mean I haven’t solved it….it just means I didn’t see what I was looking for

          • All-
            mrmagica isn’t even from here. His IP is in the UK. Probably never been to the USA. I don’t think immigration would let him in…Goofy wouldn’t…that’s for sure…
            It’s yet another copycat attempt by a loser to ruin everyone’s day..

          • he never says much….if i talk in riddle and use certain words he replies..

            if i ask detailed questions he doesn’t reply.
            maybe his emails are being monitried by the IRS etc.

            but make no mistake he knows i have it solved to that area.

          • Magic I’ve found it too, we all have, the treasure is all around us, beauty is everywhere.

        • Mrmagica,

          I’m starting to see the same old pattern… I solved the clues and know where it is exactly, yet talk about the size of a “3” football field. You emailed fenn and low and behold fenn is going to go on TV. and now someone may have beat you to the chest.

          You said you followed this site, so you must know of all the others with the exact same stories. So I can help myself when I ask… Instead of tooting your horn, are you going show something solid. explain something useful, do something to back up your comments?

          or did i just waste all that time reading your comments for nothing more than your ego.

    • mrmagica,

      I suspect you’re lurking-

      Do you inspire your students to do their critical THINKING drunk on red wine? Is that your message, sir? Seems to me as costly, in more ways than one… Also, 100% solving the poem is 100% finding the treasure, otherwise you’ve solved nothing. Perhaps you should join the book writer’s club of incomplete solves.

      JMO, but I would think that a geography teacher from the UK could afford their own trip across the Atlantic, and not need a backer. So why do it?

      Again, in my opinion, I also believe you to be aka Armenian on the blaze thread.

      Happy hunting all, the chase continues 🙂


    • I predict Goofy, on September 15, will reach forward, and with full intent, push the nuke button and we will hear from Mrmagica no more.

      • Well Slurbs…….you nailed that one. He’s gone.

        How many geniuses does this make that have absolutely, without any doubt solved the poem but don’t have the chest; while telling us what dopes we are…….And it’s always the same old story; it’s already been found because they simply can’t be wrong.

          • Well Cholly, I don’t think the emails from Fenn help much……I have a direct connection to Fenn with my Deluxe Wee Gee Board Mouse Pad and it hasn’t helped me any.

            The mouse does start bouncing and rolling around when one of these guys start posting; I finally figured out that must be when Fenn is rolling around on the floor laughing pointing at the computer screen.

        • Good riiiidance we’ve all found treasure..geez give me a break. Yawn* is anyone really close?

        • Goofy, I agree! He kept repeating the same things F said…think, walk with confidence, begin at wwwh etc.

      • As the radar softly begins to ping, the nukemeister slowly slides his hand across the console. He gently flips the safety cover from the button…..just a little closer he says, just a little closer. 🙂

        (slurbs, I don’t think he’ll make it the 15th!!)

          • Apparently my comment to mr. wonderful was a tad too late… I’m getting slow in my old age.

            Why do I picture Goofy leaning back smoking a cigarette with a smile from ear to ear?

          • Goofy, we still don’t know if he was referring to 3 American, Canadian or soccer sized fields. My guess is one of each.

          • I am going with a cricket pitch. Just because he said “football field” doesn’t mean we should assume he was speaking correctly.

            See, I am using the same “logic” as I see others using. Pretty clever isn’t it.

          • In the UK and Europe, Football is Soccer. In the US a football field is 100 yards by 50 yards. In the UK a football field is 100 yards by 60 yards… So the clue is the chest is hidden within ten yards of the Blaze…. WE solved it !

          • Goof

            Why not let the guy keep explaining his solve? He may be crazy but so is Fenn (respectfully). He flew here from the UK…you can verify he has a UK IP address right? Has more commitment than most bloggers here. I have been out 8 times driving 500-1000 miles one way to a solve about the same size. I can attest once in your area it is still a lot harder to find than one can ever imagine. I was curious about his solution and method and you cut him off. Too bad for us. Cambridge Univ and a geography professor and we kick him off? I hope he wasn’t right or our closed American minds will be the loser in this. (PS IMHO of course)

          • Joncal, it’s the same old story with these drama queens and their delusions of grandeur.

            It’s happened over an over. He’s here to bless us with his presence and let us know how stupid we all are……If you want to talk to him I’m sure it won’t be difficult. These guys are looking for attention. Be forewarned, as soon as you disagree with him, he will go ballistic on you.

            Tell you what I’ll do. If he wants drop all the ridiculous drama nonsense and send his solution in and say in his opinion he has solved the poem; and when he got there it was gone, I’ll be happy throw him in the shark tank and we’ll see how smart he really is.

            If his solution is that good he will get a lot of support here because in my opinion there’s not any group of folks any where that know more about Fenn and the poem than the folks here.

            But don’t look for him to do that…….these guys have battleship mouths and row boat butts.

          • Goofy,
            You infer that knowing the most about fenn is relative to finding the chest. I would say there is a chance that knowing a huge amount is better than knowing more than what is found in the TTOTC.
            Just saying this IMO

          • Goofy,

            My dad was retired Navy and I never heard the expression “battleship mouth and row boat butt” – hilarious, thanx for the chortle.

  31. mrmagica Throw us a bone, what state? BLM land or private property? National Park Lands, Forest Lands? Native? Were you cold? I’ll ship you a bottle of 2006 Jeriko Cab from N Calf!

  32. Do you suppose the blaze could change over time? Even if it does “my” blaze will always be there in the history books.

    Forrest said “it isn’t in a dangerous place” BUT I’m seeing “brave and in the wood” as a tough place to get to. The saying “we aren’t out of the woods yet” makes me think that it could be a rough,tough,scary place to be, but not dangerous.

    • Great thoughts….to me (small very bias selfish opinion) everybody seems to be looking for some special thing that is “The Blaze”. Maybe it just means “If you have been wise and found the trail…the path…look quickly down that path…your quest to cease”. I and others may also wish to hear ideas on this important subject.

    • I think mrmagic was not telling truth when he said he wasn’t in it for the money, he was out for some Quick silver and most likely the gold like the rest of us, but he would rather we believe he was in it Just For Love of the chase.

      Didn’t he also say somebody paid for a ticket out here?

      • Not sure if it’s the same guy from the UK who solved a bunch of other public hunts. I looked at his site once. He’s actually pretty clever. If it is, the probability is low he would give us his solution or his actual identity because of how public he’s been with his other puzzles.

      • I waited for him to get nuked before I posted on any of his comments, as I have made a commitment to myself to not feed the trolls.

        He did say he did not find the treasure, so that tells me his solve is either fictitious or incorrect.

        Scott W.

    • Can you comment more on the clues you have found sprinkled in the stories? I would also be interested to know what you find interesting about the map on page 133.

      Scott W.

      • I don’t believe ken is referring to the map on page 133 but to the statement in the first line on page 133. There are clues in the book

        • Uken….Fenn says there are hints not clues in the book. I think many people get sidetracked, myself included, by thinking hints are clues. A hint is something which will help you solve a clue, but will not get you closer to the chest. Clues are what get you closer to the chest. Stick with the poem…..all the clues are in the poem.

          • Betsy,

            I understand what you are saying but what is your response to what is written in the first line of page 133 in TTOTC?

            Separate from my response to you: a definition of cipher is secret or disguised way of writing

            Yet we all search for hidden meanings in the poem even though f said they would be of no use in finding the chest. IMO

      • Hi Scott — I sent a lengthy reply with 14 potential examples of hints from TTOTC, but for some reason it’s not posting. (Fortunately, I kept a local copy since it took me 20 minutes to create!) I’ll try again later — right now whenever I try to repost it, the blog says I’ve already posted the message. (A problem that seems to happen with long posts.)

        • Zap, that has happened a few times. It seems there is a script in your temp files that is bumping heads with another script. I had one guy that it happened to and we finally figured out when he was signed in to a particular hot rod forum he would get that message……Go figure.

          Anyway, try cleaning out your temp files and restarting the computer and see if that allows it to post. If not send me an email and we’ll see if we can figure out what is going on.

          • Hi Goofy — cleared my cache, deleted all my internet temp files, and restarted Firefox so we’ll see if that solves it. I’ll also try breaking my message into two parts.

          • Hi Scott — okay, here goes with part 1. I’ve been maintaining a list of “potential” hints sprinkled in TTOTC. I say “potential” since who really knows what’s a clue and what isn’t? But anything that looked like it might be a hint I jotted down. Here are the first 7 of them:

            1. No reference to Colorado in the entire book, but the other 3 states mentioned. Not very helpful since there are two interpretations: it’s not in Colorado, or he deliberately avoided mentioning CO because he *did* hide the chest there.
            2. Page 17: “my father always said she (Fenn’s mother) wouldn’t bite a hard biscuit if she was starving to death.” There certainly are “hard biscuits” in Yellowstone’s Biscuit Basin.
            3. Page 40: “my turn at the paddle” — no paddle up your creek?
            4. Page 41: regarding the cemetery at night: “It took guts to go in there when it was dark with no moon.” Note the go “in there”; possible link to no place for the meek.
            5. Page 42: “I could hear the steam engines puff and the engineers blow their air horns.” Heavy loads and water high (steam from the train=water high?)
            6. Page 47: West Yellowstone: Canyon Street — take it in the canyon down?
            7. Page 75: “trimmed in trappings bold” (plus the rhyming word gold two lines later)

          • Zap –

            Good stuff.

            I need to digest everything you wrote. I particularly like the reference to trains since so many have posted on this topic.

            The Colorado point is just as you said; is it in or out? No one can be certain of this fact, if it is truly a hint. One must ask which way the hint leads.

            Scott W.

          • Hi Scott — I’ve tried three times on posting part 2, but no joy. Perhaps I’ll try them one at a time:

            8. Pages 115-117: Significance of red tea, black tea, green tea? This is an odd detail to put in the story. There are a lot of mountains named Red Mountain, Black Mountain, or Green Mountain in the Rockies — some of them close together.

          • I appreciate your rant Q1werty2, (9/13 @ 7:18)

            Please, tell me about “an one”…. nothing on Google or Amazon.

            I think the TC is in NM because Flywater “occupies a different shelf, closer to my view.” And besides, Peggy is there. It’s one of them book hints IMO.

          • “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.”

            “Get the Thrill of the Chase and read it; and then go back and read the poem, over and over and over again. And then go back and read the book again but slowly looking at every little abstract thing that might catch up in your brain, that might be a hint that will help you with the clues. Any part of some is better than no part of any. ” – Moby Dickens book signing

            “Occasionally I forward parts of emails to Dal for use in his blog to
            add human interest for others who are in the search, but I never would if
            it made a difference or in any way might point someone toward or away from
            the treasure. Dal is also a searcher. I am determined to stay aloof of
            providing any additional clues that are useful. Everyone has the same
            information to work with. Some few have stopped within several hundred feet
            of the correct location, and then passed it by. I said in my book that
            the solution will be difficult but not impossible. If it was easy anyone
            could do it. Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with
            their imagination. I have done only a few things in my life that were truly
            planned. Hiding the treasure chest is one of them. And at the end, the one
            who finds the gold will not feel lucky, but instead, will ask himself,
            ”what took me so long?”

            “Dear Mr. Fenn,
            We are a group of avid elderly bridge players in San Diego who after reading your book hope to find your treasure. We are not into poetry as much as the memoir. We realize the clues are in the poem, but were wondering if there isn’t at least one clue in each chapter.
            Thank you for a great book. Sincerely, Emily,

            All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f”

          • Seeker,
            Why are the “hints” in the book the focus when page 133 line one states:
            “There are also other subtle clues sprinkled in the stories.”?

            What are folks thoughts on the quotation above? Are there subtle ‘clues’ in the stories in the book? I wish I could ignore this and would appreciate an explanation why this is not relevant to the search/poem.

          • Scott, any page, picture or drawing. Why don’t you pick a page and if you can’t find something look again. IMO.

          • Those are not my take, but fenn’s words… Honestly I wish every word fenn said was a hint, and be told hundreds of hints in the book. It would make my job easier.

            I would like to hear straws version of the hints in the book as well… There may be a couple correct.

          • F wrote TTOTC and since then he has s harmed more information. If there became a clear contradiction between statement and written word what approach should be taken?

            I am not thinking f would deceive, however ‘apparent’ inconstincies can sometimes be resolved logically. Clues in the book and no clues in the book. Perhaps there is an enlightening solution.

          • Well unfortunately for you what I see as hints for my solution probably don’t fit yours. Or maybe some would but might be misleading. For example a girl with a ribbon in her hair might mean something to someone searching near a river called Ribbon. But for someone searching near a hog back ridge might mean something else. The clues fall into place when we’re in the right area.Not that I’m there but just how it will be when one of us is there. Everything will make sense. It will all come together. IMHO

          • Seeker – I got that you were quoting Fenn, and I am not directing anything at you at all.

            I just want to hear someone tell us what they think.

            It seems everyone wants to tell us about all the hints in the book, but few share real thoughts. I think if you (an one) decide to boast about all the clues they have found in the book, then you need to put up or shut up. IMO. Why mention it if you are not willing to share.

            I can only come to two conclusions regarding those who claim to have found the secrets and hints without sharing at least something of what they claim to know.

            1. they are trolls
            2. they are trolls

            I’ve been here for quite awhile, and I know whose posts I should read.

            I feel that I share – sometimes a lot more than I should; sometimes a little cryptic. At least I share.

            When the day comes that I claim to “know” something which I can’t back-up, I hope Goofy nukes me.

            Wow! that was a rant. Just getting tired of all the people claiming to know something that they don’t.

            I don’t care what you (in general) may know, I want to know what you think and why you think it.

            Just share what you think and why.

            All of the above is IMO, and I in no way direct this at any one person in particular. It is a response to all.

            BTW – my use of “an one” is the first time I have ever been able to do so since I read the book 40 years ago.

            Scott W

          • uken2it –

            I’m a lot older than I look – and feel.

            I’m kind of proud of that. 🙂

            However – I am as bald as a baseball!

            Scott W.

          • My baldness is shaped like part of the seam on a baseball. Btw how can someone throw a two seam fast ball with just one baseball?

            Btw 1st stanza, my solve today is ‘vault’ and will inform the rest of the poem if possible..

          • Q1 –

            I see your frustration – and I understand.

            Many of us have already discussed “what’s” in the book – we know.

            To go over it again for us is like old news.

            We want the new news – and lately there is very little of that.

            I might suggest to you to go back thru the nine clues here and also at and Chase Chat. I know it’s tedious and time consuming – but at this point in the game probably necessary if you are serious about finding the TC.

            You will see that most of the old timers have dropped out – either they were not serious in the first place or gave up somewhere along the way.

            I will tell you there are many hints in the book.

            One is – the W in the frogs eye

            Some are the drawings which look similar to Rockwell paintings.

            And some just live on the edges. 🙂

          • Scott,
            I’ma pickin up what ya puttin down.

            Yep. The word “clue”. That has bothered me for some time now. The quotes I placed here seem to say different to a clue in the book [ other than 9 in the poem]. Why is a good question to ask. Since a hint is to help with find / understand a clue, and we are looking for 9 clues within the poem… For me it’s very hard to distinguish between a hint / clue in the book after I read those quotes, and to what is stated in the book.

            I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed… so that is confusing.

            So we come 360* to the old question. Is there “Clue[s]” in the book. If so then there is more than 9 clues needed to be known. Would you or anyone else agree with that? the book said it, yet many many statements later say different.

            At first when I read clues in the book.. Because the poem is in the book. i went with 9 clues in the poem, seem logical. then “clues sprinkled…” threw me off.

            Attempting to understand what fenn means by a clue is very frustrating… as he seems to call everything a clue… even useless clues… So if a clue is a must need to know and there are 9 we are looking for, is there an actual “clue” “needed” from the book? or just hints that may shed some light?
            If anyone answers Clues in the book… then there must be, at the very least 10 clues.

            It doesn’t make sense to me… but that is just me.

            I personally lean to 9 clues in the poem only. everything else if helpful information.

          • Seeker, 9 clues in the poem. The poem is in the book = the book has 9 clues (minimum). If there are clues in the book, minus the poem, who know (but f)? He said hints are sprinkled throughout the book (paraphrasing), not clues sprinkled throughout the book. Does that clear things up for you? Disclaimer… IMO.

          • Slurbs,
            The book does indeed use the word clues and those sprinkled in the stories. Page 33 top of page

          • Hello,

            I didn’t expect to find another clue from the book. As others have stated, there are hints that my help us to identify the clues in the poem.

            That being said, I think I did find a clue in the picture of the bird nested on the moon. It helped me narrow down the search area before my trip at the end of the month.

            Speaking generally about it, I took it as the man views himself as that bird nested on the moon. There are also symbols to help narrow the search down to a smaller area.

          • steelcityblue hi we hope to leave Sat sept 19 to go to our search area. we are in N NM and we are use Red River area as our base. we still have to drive to search area but it is pretty and we finally found a less expensive place with full kitchen. eating out kills budgets and watch for salt levels YIPES some salty fries send me to ER. where are you searching?

          • I am headed to Wyoming from PA. It’s my favorite possibility. Never know until you get there. 🙂

          • steelecityblue have fun be safe and find TC. we are fixing to do third trip in three months. first one was to scout area, test drive times, find place to stay, second trip got cut short twice once to take grandson home and second sickness. thank you who ever posted about can air for field great idea and inexpensive too. for anyone who is planning to cross a stream Bass Pro has felt bottom boots 30.00 in TX. or you can go on line get 25.00 kit add to boots or shoes. some people have problems finding the boots in small sizes. boots should be cleaned in 1 part bleach to 9 parts water after use before going in a different water source to keep from carries bad bugs to new site and some states have outlawed them. they help keep you on your feet not on rocks ouch.

          • slurbs,

            The book does say “clues” Quote…

            There are also other subtle clues sprinkled in the stories. It was vital that nobody shares my knowledge about the location of the treasure. Two can keep secret if one of them is dead.


            This kinda contradict your comment;
            “He said hints are sprinkled throughout the book (paraphrasing), not clues sprinkled throughout the book. Does that clear things up for you? Disclaimer… IMO.”

            I hope this clears things up for you.

          • Steelblue,

            Thanks for bringing up the pictures in the book… I don’t have any of them, but I have been looking for something I recall fenn say… he didn’t draw the pics, or he let the artist do his own thing or something that indicated that. I hope if someone has that information laying around in a dust pile of quote and comments they would share it.

            Inthechase, as much as we have talked about old stuff… this conversation we are having tells me, going over the old stuff is just as important as anything new. Maybe even more important, as fenn said recently he will not be handing out anymore clues. [ dang, there’s that word again ].

          • Slur a,
            I am not dogmatic when speaking about clues vs hints but I am convinced that there are real helps in the stories. That is my intent when sharing this. I am a new convert to actual informational solution help outside the poem.

          • Just one more thing regarding “Clues”.

            If you are counting clues or hints – you are in the wrong game mode. In my opinion it is a total waste of time – and detrimental to finding the correct solve.

      • Scott,
        I will comment again, that Forrest wrote TTOTC(a memoir) and shared stories about various times throughout his life. Starting on page 129 he spoke of filling a treasure chest with gold and jewels that he had collected. On page 131 he spoke of knowing exactly where to hide it(somewhere north of Santa Fe in the mountains). He then told us that he wrote a poem containing nine clues that one could follow precisely to the end of his rainbow and the treasure. On Page 132 is the poem containing nine clues. On page 133 he wrote that there are other clues sprinkled in the stories.
        For almost two years I slogged through the blogs reading all of Forrest’s scrapbooks and read the poem over and over. My ideas were all over the place. It dawned on me that Forrest wrote the book(TTOTC) with the intent of announcing to the world who he is, how he got where he is, and that after a bad scare with cancer he hid a Bronze chest loaded with gold and jewels. His book challenges anyone to go look for it. At that point I bought the book.
        Without the media, interviews, scrapbooks, blogs or any other stories, or books written by others, Forrest’s book TTOTC is the only way to know about his treasure.
        To me, that book is the only source that matters. What Forrest has shared since then is important only to gauge his responses to questions that he has been asked in various settings and context. Some of his answers to the same questions have varied. Time has a way of skewing or shifting the original intent in all things. Like a good game of poker at a full table, that helps me read the player that has the most chips in their pile.
        Jeez, now let me tell you how I really feel…
        Notice that Forrest wrote that the chest was north of Santa Fe in the mountains…not the Rockies. That came later. Hmmm…more later

        • Ken you have just opened the eyes of all the bloggers. thank God i hope we get to search again this weekend.

          • hi ken we got canceled this week first or thrid week in Oct now. some good some bad with that. we notice NO ONE noticed your all important comment. very few are looking that close to Fenns home. email wildbirderntex at gmail dot com if you like

    • I found what I think is a subtle hint between pagges 133-140.Thats all I’m giving up today ,q1werty2

  33. @ zaphod73491:

    Regarding the streets in West Yellowstone. A lot of them have names that you you can connect to the YNP and the poem. I had what I thought was a good solve in West Yellowstone until further research blew it out of the water.

    • Goofy: no luck posting my #8 through 14, either here or under the WWWH thread. I’ve rebooted, cleared cache, cleared temporary files. I’m out of options.

    • Always nice to hear Forrest’s voice. Hope everyone enjoyed the book event 😉 Time for bed..zzz

        • 23, I believe that’s important. I think much of the poem and Forrest’s life is not about “the road less traveled” but about “the road not taken.”

          • Jdiggins and Mindy, this Road Not Taken poem is important to decoding the way a man thinks as he reflects deeply on his life.

        • 23 – I Loved the Diane Rehms discussion of Frost’s poem. Such an enjoyable, lively dbringing new perspective on Frosts true meaning.

          If I ever get the chance to talk with Forrest facie ad faciem I would enjoy discussing his interpretation about of Eliott’s ‘Little Gidding’ or hear about Forrest’s favorite mountain meadow.

          At the end of a long chase, I find 32 reasons why being rich in friendship is worth more than 42 pounds of gold.

          Hope everyone had a great time at F’s autograph party. Very sorry I could not attend.

          • Anything Diane Rehms creates is just pure magic to me. I’m a huge fan.

            I’m also a fan of the number 23 and all of it’s charms although 42 is also a key number for me related to confidence.

            Did you know “w” is the 23rd letter in the English alphabet?

          • I really wanted to be there too, 42. I hope to pick up a copy of that beautiful book soon. I especially want Forrest to sign it for me. One of the main reasons I couldn’t attend is because my wife has an appointment tomorrow morning to become a U.S. citizen. She qualified to become a citizen about 6 or 7 years ago, but she/we are just getting around to it now. We are both very proud and excited for tomorrow.

  34. ‘Almost immediately Andrew realized Forrest had deliberately missed out part of the directions. Andrew said he had to find this part from a source external to the poem. It became apparent that Forrest’s riddle comprised several different layers.’ Looks like he has a book for sale…….

    • He was posting in Chase Chat as “White Knight” (posting his real name therein), but it involved the Lewis&Clark cipher (Sept. 3). I tried the L&C cipher in various ways using “artichoke” (maybe I got it wrong, but I think that’s the cipher word they used) and failed to uncover anything at all. (Go west. In a short hour, re-ciphers to “Ht pnva. xz a tzh&w pcew”)

      I’m confused. I was pretty sure f said no ciphers. Is it memorylapse Monday? I discounted Mr. Briggs shortly upon reading that he used one (ok, I fiddled with it a bit). WTHeck?

      Besides, this is the first public appearance since I sent him my four line solve; I am pretty positive that he meant Joseph, not Andrew; you know how people can misspeak when making off-the-cuff remarks. (I believe I read somewhere, you HAVE to be positive you are right or you get nuked or something goofy.) more coffee

      • He says at the end of the interview that he tried finding the gold using Andrews solution with no luck. I think what he meant in the beginning of the interview was yeah this guys got it all figured out as in he almost has a complete solution not that the solution he is putting forward is correct.

        • not to quibble, cat cut, but doesn’t everyone have a 90% solve when they hit the road? I wouldn’t leave home without one. I sent f one. Looks like we’ll be sorting this out for a bit.

          • joseph there is nothing to sort if he used a cipher. why would anyone by a book that tells where TC is if the guy will not go get it. why waste the time. sorry sounds cranky but didnt mean it that way.

        • I agree cat, he threw his solution out the window. Fenn seems to think telling people they are wrong is giving out too much information, and I agree with that. Some people believe because he doesn’t tell them they are wrong means they are correct.

          If I’m remembering correctly this makes two solutions he has come out and said are wrong……..the other being Pam’s solution at the Christ of the Mines Shrine in Silverton.

          And I agree with you about Fenn saying the guy had a lot figured out. He said he had a lot figured out; he didn’t say he was correct. It seems folks here what they want to hear not what he said.

          • Goofy,
            I didn’t ‘want’ to hear that, but I know what you mean. It may have be sarcasm too, even though it wasn’t strong sarcasm.

          • I think FF just misspoke, but technically speaking he didn’t reject this solve.

            FF just said he couldn’t get treasure by following the email he was sent. Briggs says his solve is 95% complete.

            I think it’d be great if FF just outright rejects it, but I don’t see him needing to.

          • Just reading through the preview area of his book on Amazon, there’s a number of reasons to dismiss his solve out-of-hand, though. A lot of the premises he puts forward as justification for going with a cipher are severely flawed.

            For example, as justification to give up on a point-to-point solve, he says:

            “However, when I thought about it I decided that if the second place was situated far away from the first place the clue for the second place would have to be so specific that you wouldn’t need the clue for the first place to locate the second.”

            A single counter example destroys that premise. Simple one: Sinks Canyon in WY. It’s a three hour drive from Yellowstone, but “not far” on a map. You can interpret Sinks Canyon as “canyon down”, but it only makes sense in relation to it’s proximity to Yellowstone.

            The author assumes that because something makes sense to them, it somehow becomes a necessity that Forrest Fenn *must* follow. This puts the solve in a very indefensible position as a single counter example unravels it.

            You have to choose the premises you accept carefully. This author chose poorly.

          • Slurbs – just because a persons “ip” says they are from the UK does not mean they are located there. In my opinion there is alot of hokey poke going on around here. I would go so far as to say one person is posting for another (I call that cover) be wise my friend not everything is as it seems.


          • Jeremy,

            You brought a smile to my face when you spoke ” he chose poorly” – as it is a great line from one of the Indiana Jones movies when a drink from a chalice leads to the drinkers demise. Fond memory.

          • Close it’s easy to tell if someone is using a VPN…….You don’t know where they are but you do know they are hiding their IP.

            You can also use a proxy server (basically a VPN) to access the web; for example AOL is a proxy server. You connect to them, they connect to the web.

            And you can do what I do which is use a remote access program to use a different computer. So if someone looked at my IP they would always think I’m sitting in my office, which isn’t the case. I don’t do it because I’m hiding anything but because out in the boonies a screen refresh is much faster than downloading all the junk that usually comes on most websites even running no script in Firefox.

            I don’t think there’s any dark conspiracy going on, but you are correct, our 100,000 comments could have been made by one very complex personality. That would mean seeker and 42 are the same person; that thought hurts my brain. 🙂

          • Seeker it ok to argue with yourself get dont get it a fist fight with self. both of you lose. lol hubby give me a hard time because i argue with my self too. i usual lose

      • Perplex and more perplexed I am. Ciphers or Clues stump me. What is truth? I believe these conflicts can be resolved but how?

        ” I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. f” Those with the first two clues are still numerous. I feel of those countless searchers, some may have guessed, but quite a few probably felt they knew they had it, but because they did not have the rest of the poem deciphered, or did not have the key, or did not have clue 3 or had the blaze and went by the other 7 simple had to give up and thus “… Alas, and dame fortune, so often a fickle and seductive wench, never spun her wheel to lure them back.f”

” Forrest was asked about what the home of Brown was. He answered, ‘well that is for you to find out. If I told you that, you would go right to the chest.’ “
“There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest.” ff – Moby Dickens Book Shop in Taos/11-2-13.

      • If Andrew’s solution utilizes the Lewis & Clark cipher, then that’s all I need to know about him. He’s done.

  35. It is disappointing that Fenn did not emphasize more clearly that Andrew Briggs’s solve was wrong. I bought the book….complete waste of time and money…Jeremy his assumptions to the poem are severely flawed and it’s the most complicated bunch of decoding and ciphers I have seen. Do not support this guy…..just another greedy searcher unwilling to admit they are wrong. I think after today I am going to call it quits. These interviews should not create confusion and most definitely should not encourage anyone to buy more books. Especially from someone who has used all the methods that Fenn has said specifically not to use in solving his poem.

    • Agreed, from what I see in the preview for the book.

      I’ve always tried to bring a “simplest answer is often correct” approach to the solve, unless I encounter something to make me revise my approach.

      (I do admit though that I was drinking coffee at the time FF made that remark and almost coughed it up… I think I actually said out loud “What did he just say?”)

      • Exactly! I think the wolf or Illinois ghost would be far more deserving of a spot on the interview… still in shock. Shocked and so disappointed. This guy used Lewis and Clark code to decipher his solves. He used the words Forrest Invectus and Forrest Infamy as keys to decipher his incredibly complex solves….of course he came up with these after he tried hundreds of other things as a cipher. Hmmm seems like he was doing some serious fishing here.

      • I still say that the “simplest answer is often correct” but I’m second guessing what the simplest answer is.

        Everyone I’ve spoken to who’s not involved in the chase is saying I’m in denial, that he clearly said that this guy was mostly correct and that his solve just isn’t complete yet. They don’t hear any sarcasm, multiple meanings, or any of that in how he said it.

        I can see the takeaway for the general public being “Forrest Fenn endorsed Andrew Briggs as a correct but incomplete solve”, whatever the truth of the matter is.

        When I protest, they say I’m in denial 🙂

        • Jeremy.
          By changing or adding words to the statement changes things.
          I see the …Good part of it… To say, the searcher may have a good part and we don’t know what that part is.

          Could he have the word that is key correct? Could he have a clue that is correct that no one else has told fenn?
          Could he got lucky and have 3 or more, but can’t line up a correct solve because his method is wrong.

          It’s all speculation and perspective.

          • I’m out on any trips until next year regardless. But I’ve been trying to develop a solve that is both a good interpretation of the poem, and also consistent with everything Forrest Fenn has said on the side. As it stands now, due diligence demands that sometime before next year I have to buy this other guy’s book and try to guess what he “figured out”.

            I don’t necessarily have to do that, but it’s a precarious position not to. For example, Briggs says that people looking in New Mexico are wasting their time. My last trip was to New Mexico. I now have to find out why Briggs thinks that, and evaluate whether that’s one of the things he’s “figured out” or if that’s one of the things he’s wrong on. It’s a mess. I don’t have a compelling argument against my friends when they say Forrest Fenn sounded pretty clear in what he said.

            Simplest answer: I need new friends!

    • Betsy,

      I won’t tell you not to quit, that’s not my place to tell anyone anything. But I’m curious why an interview of any kind by anyone would make you feel that way. I guess there always a time limit on something… I just find it strange that you would let a interview bring you to that conclusion.

      • Seeker….good question. I think for me it invalidates the legitimacy when someone is allowed to use a Fenn interview for personal gain. Due diligence anyone. Considering the hours and money searchers are spending…..I think the interviews should be clear and to the point. This was not. It created more questions for me. I wish people the best of luck. I truly hope someone finds this.

        • Ok, But I think you miss the point of an interview. The organization has a hot topic and to boost ratings they have an interview. Nothing more, nothing less. As to why fenn wouldn’t come out and just say he’s right or he’s wrong… The simple answer is fairness IMO. Tell a solve is good, bad or ugly give more information. I do find it funny ~ interesting how many folks are getting so upset at fenn, because he won’t throw the ball with them.

          All over the blogs, site, forums, etc. more folks talked about waiting for this radio show in deep desperation for another clue. I mean, that is pretty straightforwards right there.

          • I realize this Seeker, but Fenn never comments on anyone’s solves, and he did on this one. I think he made a mistake, but he said Briggs got some of the solve. To my knowledge he has never told anyone that. What is your take on this…..I know this is what he said….many have commented on this.

        • Betsy, in my opinion these interviews are for marketing and fun not to give out information.

          When he has given out information he has been very clear and to the point in my opinion; it’s not in a mine or tunnel for example, everything else is fluff.

          As far as the book goes he’s mentioned several books searchers have written over the years. He’s been very gracious about that in my opinion; it doesn’t mean there is any useful information in the books.

          • Goofy, Thank you for the clarification. I really have to be angry at myself for buying this ridiculous book….I am pretty sure this is mr Magic the same guy you nuked off of here…..anyway I am new to this and still learning that is for sure.

          • Betsy, I think I can assure you he’s not mrmagica……they have completely different names and mrmagica just emailed me and said in no uncertain terms he is not Andy Biggs. He doesn’t think to highly of Mr. Biggs’ solution, putting it lightly.

            So there you go.

          • Goofy, if the main point of the interview was marketing, Fenn did an excellent job…
            Of marketing Andy Briggs book – by publically confirming his solution without sarcasm.

          • OK 42, everyone rush over and get Briggs’ book and have a race to the chest. I’ll wait here. Obviously the five percent Briggs is missing in his cipher is the golden ratio…..

            If you take his statement out of context I would agree with you. To me he clearly threw Briggs’ solution out the window.

      • Eels kept cutting forrest off not allowing him to answer completely, or so it seemed. And curiously, after all the Dale/Dal pronunciation talk recently, that it is Dale not Dal, but forrest calls him Dal, not Dale.

      • seeker….In all honesty, I heard the comment that this guy solved some of it….I bought the book. You know how you feel when you realize you have just been had….yea….not happy that is for sure…..perhaps I will reconsider when I get over my anger.

        • have a good fire in fire place and chalk it up to lesson learned. the best way to handle this attention seeking guy is to drop him form the discussion. we are giving him more free advertising ever time we discuss him or post him. he is the latest hot rotten potato. we should waste our time on him. squeak wheel does get any more oil from hubby or I

        • Betsy –

          You have not been had………..

          In my research this guy has a new way of thinking and it will help you. It will open new paths of a solve. Who knows if it is right or wrong….. not me – but I can tell you that is it similar to the method I used.

          And IMO he didn’t start in the right place. But he did find a blaze that is similar.

          So, in that regard, perhaps FF really did help a lot of people today – no he didn’t come out and say it – but that’s OK.

        • Hi Betsy,
          Money well spent if you learned a valuable lesson. In fact if the book was more believable you might have spent a lot more money before you realized the folly of your actions. For me the answer is always obvious, sorry Ghost and Wolf, but the chest is the solution. If you get all the clues dead right but haven’t quite gotten around to picking up the treasure yet, you are wrong. The correct solution includes the chest, actually holding it. Nothing less than this will suffice as the correct solve. This is precisely what Forrest is telling us when he says it cannot be found from your computer. IMO you can solve the clues and find a search area but you have to go get it if you want to win the chase. What is the answer givin by Andy Biggs? I feel like he maybe found something relevant but Forrest couldn’t understand how his solve got from nonsense cipher to place of importance in the chase.

    • Fenn is in a hard spot because he cannt tell people they are wrong or right in their solves. sorry about you buy useless book. if you need a break take one or if you realy need to quit sorry to see you go. i have to admit after our search earlier the summer in aug i to have some burn out because we realize if the TC really is in our search area it will be very hard to find. if you are in the wood there are lots of trees and if you are in mountains then its very rocky thank goodness we dont have to worried about snakes where we are. i dont thin Fenn would hide TC in a snakey area. IOHM
      come back and visit. take care

      • In reality, we all have to remember Forrest can do whatever he wants to in this chase. He could go get the chest and keep it. He could tell someone the exact place and tell them to go get it. He could announce the exact location on the Today Show and turn it into a literal race.

        It’s his chest, his rules, period. We have no right to dictate his rules.

        It’s his playing field and if he chooses to level it, it’s by his choice, not our demands.

        I don’t think he ever promised to be fair.

        That being said, I believe the playing field is as level as it can be. Could that change tomorrow? Absolutely. We can’t dictate how this should or will play out, so we should all be big kids about it and accept the inherent risks.

    • I finally was able to listen to the most recent interview and I am scratching my head a bit. Admittedly, I have not read anyone else’s books, besides TTOTC, in regards to this finding of Indulgence. I have spent a very little bit of time on other blogs/websites at the beginning when I was finding my way, as it were, and quickly discovered that this is the place to be for usable information. But after listening to the whole interview and then going back to listen to the parts where Brigg’s book is mentioned and Forrest’s comments on it, I cannot see how anyone could in any way think that Forrest was endorsing his solve.

      It seemed to me that Forrest was being himself, that is, staying in character with the other video and audio interviews found on this blog site, and not in any way giving credance to his solve or anyone elses. In fact, time was spent making sure that no one ever thought that Dal had an inside scoop, as it were.

      About the only thing I could glean from Forrest’s comments about Briggs is that he had done a lot of thinking about the search – or something to that effect – which I took as a backhanded compliment, which is in reality, no compliment at all. I could see where someone taking literally what has been said and getting the wrong message, but clearly from context, Forrest is giving up no real hints or clues as to whether or not Briggs was close to finding the treasure or simply a con-man making a buck.

      In my opinion, I think that Forrest is leaving it up to the person looking at those “extra-curricular” materials to decide whether or not to use them when formulating their own solves. He stated quite clearly at one point, that he hiimself could not follow Brigg’s solution to the treasure. Does that mean that how Brigg’s is thinking, or things that he has determined as important really are? We don’t know, as Forrest has maintained his demeanor and we don’t know which way to use the material. It might be a case of throwing out the baby with the bath water. Maybe there is a glint of truth inside the book. But is it more useful than just staying “within the confines of” TTOTC? We don’t know – but most likely not.


  36. So are we convinced that by Forrest own admission the chest is below the home of Brown? So by deciphering the first 4 clues are we to assume we’ll find the treasure chest? My answer to these questions, I think, is yes. Is there a connection between the first clue, and the fourth one? The only way to decipher the clues, and this is my way of thinking and my opinion only, is by knowing the different meanings for the first clue. RC.

    • Goofy, Seeker, and Forrest:

      I listened 3 times to the interview and understand Betsys disappointment.

      However, I’m done searching; could care less about new clues and will be happy when someone finds it. My disappointment has to do with the appearance of integrity.

      I listened to the complete interview and heard
      Forrest said,

      [Andy Briggs is a pretty bright guy; who has a good part of it figured out.]

      If Briggs figured it out – as he says using Cyphers – It leaves plenty of us who have been loyal to Forrest questioning why he intentionally lied about cyphers on this blog.
      Forrest, I sure hope that’s not the case. You seem like a good guy.

      Scrap Book 62
      APRIL 2014

      Forrest Quoted: “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers,…will not assist anyone to the TC.”

      “Knowing about” something and ‘using’ those things to solve the clues hold different meanings –

      IMO, sadly that would be a deceitful move to mislead searchers on Forrest’s part. But I think he also states he doesn’t intentionally mislead searchers.

      • 42 I listened to it a couple more times before commenting. If you are familiar with the history around here you know I’m not bashful about calling out Fenn if I have an issue about something he said.

        Here’s how I took it……The interviewer brought up Andy Briggs’ solution and how apparently famous Mr. Briggs is; so that is what the conversation was about. Fenn was describing Mr. Briggs solution—“he’s got a lot of it figured out”. I think he would say the same thing about any of the solutions various searchers have written a book about……Before that Fenn said he was just one of many that presumed to have solved the poem.

        I’m not making excuses for Fenn….that is how I perceived it.

        In your defense I can see where someone would perceive his statement like you did; especially new searchers that haven’t listened to Fenn speak a lot. So maybe Fenn or Dal will make a comment here when they get time to clear that up for folks that are uncertain about what he said.

        • Goofy I agree with you… I think the words “presumed” and “maybe” might come into play here… Imo…

          Lol… I think I will actually try to dissect some of his sentences… You know the actual diagram drawings you used to do in high school… Ha ha and I never thought that would ever come in handy 🙂

          • I believe FF said “lot of it figured it out, maybe” and then said “few getting close”. But, I don’t remember how long afterwards from the first comment. I didn’t see a timer on the video. But, those two things hit a note with me and I wrote them down quickly. I think a “few getting close” was said shortly thereafter.

        • Goofy,
          no one wants to believe in Forrest and hopes you are correct more than me.

          Forrest seemed to be impressed with Briggs intelligence and when asked about the solution, didn’t leave wiggle in
          clearly stating,

          “he’s got a lot of it figured out.”

          In two years of reading 3 TOTC blogs, especially Dal’s, I don’t recall Fenn confirming anyone’s solve. In fact Fenn himself says he doesn’t confirm solves, because it would give an unfair advantage.

          For whatever reason Forrest appears to have changed his mind and confirmed Briggs solve for all to hear.

          • I have been fiddling around with this poem for 3 years, and have heard some searcher say they listen to everything, read everything, put in 1000’s of hours gone on dozens of trips and get bonkers when there hear something like fenn stated today… Seriously Do ya’ll actually listen and read? Here are just a few example that have cause those men with the little white jackets to visit. Does anyone remember some of these?

            “You are not the first to figure the postmarks into some kind of equation. What difference does it make which one came first, the book or the hiding? You are an individual thinker and the kind who might find the treasure. But remember, if you follow yourself around a circle sooner or later you’ll be behind yourself. Happy hunting. F “
            *** Well I guess there is clues in the pictures after all***

            I agree that you are in an ideal location from which to search for the treasure. I have received 4,526 emails, many of them similar to yours. It is not feasible for me to give feedback and be fair to everyone. There is lots of feedback on my web site if you want to follow what other people are doing. I am glad you are in the chase with your friends. I will give you an important clue, no need to look for the treasure in a place where a 79 or 80 year old man couldn’t go with a 44 pound treasure chest full of gold and precious gems. Good luck. f

            *** C’mon, sing it with me… COLORda is The PlACe to Bee ***

            I hid the treasure chest at the first onset of dementia. I knew I had a disease so I made myself a note that revealed the exact location because I wanted later on to give some additional clues. Now I don’t remember where I put the note. Maybe if I search my fishing box I can find what it is that I was looking for. But why would I want to fish in this weather? I’ll go ask my wife Phyllis where my tool kit is.
            *** I knew there was a note and I bet it’s in the safety deposit box***

            Here’s a lady who may find the treasure because she has done the math and knows exactly where it is. f
            *** I can’t argue with this one… There is math involved. I know, you know, I know***

            This complaining has happen more time than I can count… really, do ya’ll listen at all?

          • 42 I believe the context of “he’s got a lot of it figured out” is important. In my opinion he said the solution is wrong…..

            You are correct he has said he’s not going to confirm or deny anyone’s solution. As I said before; he has said a solution is wrong twice; this one and Pam’s solution. But he told all of us not just them, so the playing field is still level in my opinion.

            These two particular solutions are ones that have apparently garnered a lot of attention in the media and on the web—I never heard of Andy Briggs but apparently he has got a lot of attention in the UK. Pam made the news on several media sources and newspapers.

            So he has come out and said these solutions are wrong as a favor to all of us in my opinion.

            If he hadn’t come out and said it wasn’t in Utah Dal would still be running around the Great Salt Lake trying to find a canyon down out of a basin. 🙂

          • But, there is an important word that was said by FF in the interview today after he said “lot of it figured it out”. Then he said “maybe”. It was that added “maybe” from FF that doesn’t close the loop. FF also said a “few getting close”. These statements cause me to back away from the Chase.

          • Rose, I listened to the interview but must have missed the part where he said a “few were getting close”. Do you remember where approximately that statement was made? I’d like to hear that part but didn’t really want to listen the whole interview again.

          • “Maybe” replaced the words that almost came out. It was more like “a lot of it figured out [, I think]”.

            But that doesn’t really mean anything. Who knows what FF was emailed. FF could have been commenting that Briggs guessed which words or lines from the poem were correct, or guessed eight of them correctly, or six, but got all the interpretations wrong. Or was wrong in how he came about them. Or…

            I mean, almost zero information to go on.

            Was pretty unexpected to hear though.

          • I’m trying not to reach to far and just stick with FF’s words from the audio today. There’s so much interpretation that it could cause one to stray.

          • Perhaps Forrest is saying he figured out how to make money without finding the TC. Is that salesmanship, or marketing, or a scam? If enough people buy his book, he can spend the money to check it out.

        • I agree Goofy. The likelihood that Forrest would casually confirm “the Solve” this way is practically nil in my view. Andrew Briggs has it figured out just as Pam has it figured out as well as some others. Its kind of like what some parents say to their naïve kids. I suspect that if Andrew REALLY was close, that Forrest wouldn’t have said anything or been more deliberately non committal. The meta message to me from every thing he said in the interview communicates to me that the solution put forth by Briggs is probably not going to be helpful. But then, I kinda concluded that from reading his blog anyway.

          • It would have been better if FF said “no comment” on questions related to Biggs. I like the comment he did say on a “few getting close”. But, the other comment caused me to look at this whole Chase as a dance. Maybe I’ll go this way OR maybe I’ll go that way. FF also mentioned that there is 20.2 Troy pounds in the trove. I think that’s it’s about 320K worth of gold. I guess the other items in the trove make up the difference to arrive at an estimated one to two million in value?

    • Sometimes when I say somebody has a lot figured out, I’m being sarcastic. Could anyone detect any bit of sarcasm in Forrest’s voice?

  37. Merely speculation a guy on the internet is selling a book and says he’s solved 95%? What is that 19 out of 20 clues? Did Mr. Fenn buy his book or just read some emails? How does the guy who bought his ticket feel about him sharing his 95% solution? A cipher? Think about that for a minute, better yet don’t. Think about a poem with 9 clues. IMOO.

  38. My wife and I just got back from (most probably) our last Chase trip. If I find the time, I’ll write up the adventure for Dal and include some photos. I have no way of gauging how close we came to the chest, but I still feel very positive about the interpretation of the clues, despite not finding the treasure. It seemed that we got all the way to the blaze (IMO) without being able to put the last piece of the puzzle in place. I sent FF a summary of where we went, but I don’t expect to hear back from him.

    Here’s how we approached it (after more than 3 years of trial, error and constant thinking and rethinking):
    1. We used a universal interpretation of WWWH – one that does not rely on selecting a specific spot in the Rockies.
    2. From that universal WWWH, we extrapolated the place to start by applying the information revealed to a specific part of the poem.
    3. From the place that the poem told us to start, we traced a (relatively short) path to the HOB that lay downstream.
    4. “From there it’s no place for the meek” required imagination and a little knowledge of FF’s life story to understand what was required next.
    5. We looked at the poem as a whole to give us general direction.
    6. We traced the very large shape that the poem points to, confirming accuracy by linking geographic features to the descriptions in the poem (heavy loads, water high, etc.)
    7. We found the blaze that would allow our “quest to cease”, and confirmed it using coordinates that appear to be revealed in the poem.
    8. We were able to “go in peace”, but with only the “riches old” – the new ones eluded us!
    9. Somewhere between the blaze and going in peace we lost the plot, and it was very frustrating!!!

    The area that we searched was the perfect spot, IMO. It was serene and surrounded by mountains; animal bones littered the ground; it was a safe and relatively easy accessible area (so long as you did your prep work beforehand). I could have been totally wrong and 500 miles off-track, but I have a gut feeling that we were at the very least in the ballpark. Maybe I’ll wake up one morning and have an epiphany on how to interpret the final clue, but it’s more than likely that we’re done with the Chase now. Assuming we have some of the clues right (a huge assumption, I know), I wouldn’t want to spoil the fun for others by revealing too much detail, but you might be able to work out from the pointers above the kind of approach we used – it was a “big picture” solution.

      • My yellowstone solve for wwwh is Ice Lake, take Norris canyon down to Grebe Lake. It is below Meeks pass, and a place dear to FF. He would go there with his father, and went there with a sick friend using a bicycle. But since I haven’t been there in 30 years and I probably will not get there again, I can’t finish the solve.
        Right now my wwwh solve is defined by the elevation and temperature of the Rio Grande. It is one of those rivers that can be cold at one place and warm at another. I put that line between Bandelier National Monument and the confluence with the Rio Pueblo. It could depend on the season what the temperature will be.

        • I like your Yellowstone solve.
          But why FF did not capitalize the m in Meek but caped Brown?
          Maybe no place for the meek = that’s not the place?
          Joseph Meek was chased by Indians to Norris while trapping near there. He also confirmed Colter’s Hell back in 1930?

          • If he did capitalize the M in Meek it would certainly of given it all away.
            I used to drive through Norris and Ennis on business and pleasure frequently back when I lived in Bozeman. There are some great places out there. I liked Pony.

          • And it is a poem. Take a look at how e.e. cummings capitalized or failed to capitalized, depending upon . . . well, fun.

        • @Michael, I like your wwwh solve by Bandelier National Monument and the confluence with the Rio Pueblo. While working through the poem, I was brought to Bandelier a few times. I remember FF mentioning something like he didn’t know Bandelier wasn’t part of the Rocky mountains.

          • I enjoy Bandelier very much and it is loaded with hiding places. Little nooks and holes in the rock, and stacks off wood that have washed down in flash flooding heavy loads and water high. I am thinking of walking the falls trail to the top of the upper falls. It’s a tarry scant and marvel gaze place.
            As I am being chatty tonight I will reveal way too much:
            Since the beginning of the chase many people have been to Bandelier. BUT they always drove right by this trail on the way to the visitor center.
            Say no more.

          • There were three areas that called to me in Bandelier. One, the Alcove cave, but I didn’t have the nerve to climb it. I can’t remember if that cave was the one that’s 10 miles in from the visitor’s center. So, I thought maybe below the cave or across the way as sometimes the markers were off in the early surveys. Second, the kiva and the hidden areas within them. Third, the home of Brown near the visitor’s center. Browns are popular there and their home is near the center and people walk right by it. But, whenever I think of these areas, they are nullified by the Aspen tree blaze of the “running man” or kokopelli picture that was sent by FF to Dal. Dal posted the picture on this website. So, they logical areas, but the hint pulls me away from searching there. But, they are still on my list.

    • I second Michael. For example, I have a generic-ish wwwh I can reveal without specifics (where two hot spring fed rivers join), but since everyone and their brother has been there AND told everyone how they were goose-egged, I’ll fess up. Confluence of the Gardiner and Yellowstone. And yes, some have reported being just hundreds of feet from “my spot”. It’s off-trail, has a view, would get wet and could get burned. And probably wrong. 😉

      I will not reveal that I don’t know what the blaze is. Oops.

      • Heck – just lay it out there. No one will agree anyway. Many have revealed their “perfect” WWWH, including me, but it always just slips through and is forgotten two days later.

        I think you are safe sharing a solve to a location you admittidly will never return to.

        We would love to hear the details.

        Scott W

      • THere is a really nice stripe on the highway going up to Bandalier. I once thougth this was the blaze. But I also thought that Los Alamos was the blaze. The nuclear bomb and the fact that ff signed for it.

    • Is there a way to access written transcripts? I can’t get the audio file to download with my granddaddy turtle ISP connection 🙁

    • anyone , I can’t seem to get any of the links to the radio show to work for me. I still haven’t heard the interview, does someone know where to go to listen to it…..? thanks

  39. OK, I’ll give you my WWWH, and see what you guys can do with it. I’m intrigued to see whether any of you come to the same conclusion as me.

    Arctic Circle.

    • voxpops your WWWH is the Arctic Circles? what? the Arctic Circles isnt even in any of the four states. please explain your logic

    • Arctic Circle as well as the general area were one of my first attempts to solve the poem. WWWH is where where warm ocean currents cool. Arctic Circle has the degree slant in its favor. Both led to Canyons down on the east and west coasts.

    • Voxpops,

      Assuming your using WWWH as the first clue, Then we would need a canyon down to below a hoB as 2 and 3 clue. My thoughts go to the first two clues… People have told fenn exactly where they were or had been and that is how he knew they had the first two clues. Not unlike today’s comment… fenn saw that this guys points in his solution had some correct spots… the question, did he just happen to get a couple or more clues correct, even by using the wrong method, yet didn’t find the chest because of the wrong method?

      Anyways, back to your solve. to get to the states you would need a minimum of two clues. I would have to ask if others searchers were at the first two clues, how could the Arctic circle be one of those clues? especially when searcher told fenn where they were physically.

      • Seeker, Arctic Circle provides a definitive boots-on-the-ground starting point just a few miles from HOB.

        • I at one time had no problems with the Arctic Circle, and now you say the hoB is a few miles away? OK. I’m attempting to see how this developed… Arctic Circle to Canada? yes? still my thoughts go to how many searchers would physically be at or near that area [ Arctic circle]. Can you shed some light on that dilemma.

          • Seeker,
            Not endorsing this but responding to your question of Arctic circle to where. Also Russia which is home to the Biggest of the big Brown Bears. But brown is not really capitalized as in “Kodiak brown bear”

            not my opinion or a part of my attempts at solves. just a thought.

          • Uken2it.

            Sure that could be… We don’t know the big picture of the clues.
            Also wwwh could be the Atlantic conveyor belt. But if the first two clues are places searchers have physically been I don’t think either of our guesses work
            That is my question about the Arctic circle… How many searchers ever starte . There to end up in the US..

          • Seeker,
            In my first or near first solve I went from the Pacific ‘conveyor belt’ near Alaska and Bering Sea, took it in the canyon down (subsurface canyons). One could come on shore on the west coast with different solves. If I recall I ended up following the L&C trail east.

            Did f say the first two clues had been physically visited?

            food for thought.

          • Neither Canada nor Russia are involved. The Arctic Circle leads directly to a place in one of the four search states.

          • fenn said he know searchers got the first two clues because they told where they are. I’ve put up the quote before, but anyways, I’m not sayin it can’t be a place on the circle just that it would be hard for me to see several searchers physically starting there.

    • Good one voxpops. To date, my favorite WWWH was the Cape of Good Hope. Read the Wikipedia article and be blown away. And I actually had a really good way for this to link to one of the search states.

  40. Many people have recognized that the poem is multi-layered. The fact that the Arctic Circle is not in one of the states where the treasure is hidden is immaterial. You need to tease out the information and apply it correctly. You may be surprised – I certainly was!

  41. I read Andrew Brigg’s book and it doesn’t make sense to me. First off, didn’t Forrest specifically state that all you need is the poem and a map? This guy is using baseball cars, other publications and videos that hadn’t even been created at the time of the poem. Secondly, didn’t Forrest also state that we were complicating things buy using deciphers and codes?

    • Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f

      I think the Lewis and Clark cipher would definitely fall under this.

      • “Overrate” the complexity. Hmmm. I wonder what that REALLY means? He’s not saying the poem isn’t complex. Yes saying people overrate it.

      • Jeremy,
        I would say so as well. I think what has happened here is the guy got lucky and told of a few clues locations correctly. One thing we have been told is nobody has told fenn the “correct solve” past the first two clues. That does not mean someone has not come up with, lets say clue 7, yet doesn’t know of the others clues.

        Folks are jumping to the conclusion that if he got any part of the locations of clues correct… then his method of a code / cipher etc. must be how it’s done. How many times have we heard fenn say some have been here or there ~ first two clues or 200′ or walked passed the chest. I’m pretty sure in my mind, that others searchers have others clues and may have been at those location… but did they know? and did they read the poem correctly? or just lucky.

        It’s truly entertaining how folks let themselves lose control over all this. Then call foul ball, and say I’m done! Yet still complain, jump from site to site, and yell I’m done and complain some more. All this does is halt others from talking about the poem / solve. If their truly “done” move along… I want to talk about the dang poem, does anyone else?

  42. Can someone tell me where I can find this Pam’s explanation? I am curious to read it to see what she came up with. I will admit when I read Brigg’s book that the clues came down to cartoons and comic book heroes.

  43. As obvious as it would seem…I hadn’t read this anywhere [re-reading Jenny Kile’s Mysterious Writings site]

    Update: July 12th, 2015: The Treasure is NOT in a mine.

  44. Interview…

    I heard comments here about the poor line of questioning and cutting off f during the interview. If you had the opportunity to interview f, what questions would you ask? Keep in mind the answers will be cryptic as always. Don’t ask a question that f would tell you to go read the poem or something foolish like “where did you hide the treasure chest?”

    I’ll throw a few out there…
    SCB: Mr. Fenn, thank you for taking the time to tease your die hard fans by answering a few questions. You must be tired of hearing the same questions attempting to validate WWWH, identify that blasted blaze and countless possibilities to the HoB. Did someone check the commode again?…*sigh* While each line is important, which phrase has been overlooked the most based upon the feedback you have received?
    F: _______
    SCB: As the architect of the Thrill of the Chase poem, you carefully crafted a story to convey clues in sequential order and send messages to the reader. As with any construction, there are bound to be sections that you are more pleased with than others. Which lines are your favorites and why?
    F: _______
    SCB: You admitted to your desire to get people off their couches, get excited and go explore the wilderness. How pleased are you with the actions taken by people inspired by your work? Is there anything you’d like to see happen that hasn’t come about yet? I for one contend that your poem will be used as an interactive learning tool in classrooms.
    F: _______
    SCB: Thank you for spending some time with your fans. Just one final question before I let you depart and leave us abuzz with wild speculation. How many treasure hunters does it take to change a light bulb? (did i hear someone in the back of the room shout 32?)
    F: _______

    • Thank you for asking! Here’s a few questions for FF:
      1) Did you watch Three’s Company?
      2) What was the most inspirational time in your life? Teenager? Military?
      3) Did you modify the area for indulgence?
      4) Do I need to translate any word(s) in the poem to another language?
      5) Will a flash light help me with solving the poem?
      6) Are you tired of chasing mice?
      7) Have you ever participated in BSA activities (e.g., camping, clearing trails, etc.)

    • I would probably ask a question that pertains to something very important to him. Like what kind of rubber are you using for your custom made tires, natural or synthetic? Only because I’m curious about the history of African rubber trees and our ancestory. OK maybe that’s a stretch but it’s really not about the question, more about the answer. IMO.

    • He could have simply kept the interview about Forrest Fenn and his new book and I would have enjoyed it.

      • Agree. I’m confident with my solve and do not care anything about Briggs or others who claim to have a percent solved and not have the chest. I ignore them. Indulgence is still waiting for the right person(s). I would have liked to hear more about the new book.

  45. Jeremy P,

    If I select the link to open in a new tab it takes me there, but with this error message displayed: “Video can’t be played because the file is corrupt.”

      • Jeremy P. – I appreciate the effort, but I do not get an option to download. If I did, then I would and use VLC to view it.

        Just so you know, I build client side PCs for a living – so I know my way around them. That’s part of the reason I use Linux, the other part is I’m thrifty and don’t want to keep paying for what I already own.

        If I copy and paste the link into an IE 11 session on Win7, I simply get a plain white screen. I really think something is amiss with the file.

        Or, my work firewall doesn’t allow for the connection. Let me try at home later tonight.

        • to anyone our mid Sept trip just nailed and now it looks like we will not get to go till mid Oct around the 19 with cooler temps which are great for hiking but BURRRRRR!!!! for stream crossing. oh well.
          bummer x 100000000000…………..000000 you get the idea

  46. Got to love windows – it opened their Media player behind the white window. I didn’t know it was playing, as I already was listening to some music. Between songs I heard some muted voices, so I minimized windows until I saw it. I then rewound the interview and listened to it.

    Thank you very much!

  47. The end is drawing ever nigh;

    I am thinking this could mean there is an old rock drawing or rock painting near this place that depicts the end of the world or something related?

    • A drawing could also be carved into rock. I remember seeing a drawing of what appeared to be a galaxy, drawn by Indians. Ancient Aliens is a great show. If I could only remember where this was drawn. ever nigh could be space & time which are the same in my mind.

    • That concept has continually surfaced through my four plus years working on this quest. So maybe, it could be…

    • I don’t like to jump ahead of Fenn’s poem & try to solve later clues without solving the earlier ones but I would have to say that if “The end is drawing ever nigh” is a drawing, then you would also have to be near a creek or river that is cold, that’s why in the poem “Your effort will be worth the cold” refers to water where the chest resides. Fenn also stated the TC is wet?

  48. What I liked about the most recent radio interview was for the first time I heard the title to the poem mentioned, never officially knew it before. Also, he confirmed not a beaver dam (had that in the back of my mind as possible hoB), and he mentioned again that WWWH is a clue, (knew it but confirmed again). FF said he read 3 books about Taos painters and acquired archival material, (could the spot of come to him via this literature)? He mentioned the old artist named Charlie Russel. Also he doesn’t think the TC will be found and him not know it.

  49. Cholly, the first link is an overview of the original 6 in the Taos Society of Artists including Sharpe, Fechin, Couse.

    Taos Artists:

    After studying painting in Paris, Charlie Russell made his home in Montana living in Greatfalls, not too far from Cascade – which Forrest mentioned in the interview as well.
    Russell had other homes in Helena and Apgar, and was certainly one of the finest Cowboy artist-poets.

    Russell’s mural titled Lewis and Clark Meeting the Flathead Indians hangs in the state capitol building in Helena, Montana. Russell’s 1918 painting Piegans sold for $5.6 million at a 2005 auction.


  50. @42, yea, I saw the wiki info on CM Russel too. Thanks for the other link. I’m one who feels the special spot was found during the early Santa Fe years (adjusting to civilian life) and not during the child hood summers in MT/WY area….ff said on this recent interview that he had so much fun collecting during those 17 years, etc….Anyhow, are you sure you are done with this thrill and chase? lol! Great Falls,why didn’t I think of that!

    • Cholly, in answer to your question, there’s no longer a rainbow for me, no reason to continue building my solve or searching.

    • Cholly-
      Just an interjection on your comment above about Forrest having “so much fun collecting during those 17 years”.
      I think it’s useful to remember that he collected all over the world during those 17 years…not just in New Mexico..and certainly Wyoming and Montana and Colorado all played a part in where he found pieces for his collection…
      So it’s hard for me to see how this statement can be used as a logical justification for New Mexico.

      If he had said he “had so much fun building his home during those 17 years”…then I could see how that statement might make an argument for New Mexico…

      • I’m hard headed! Even you started out in NM, jumping in streams below homes of Brown, etc!! lol! Are you back home? Looking foward to seeing pics from the book signing…

        • Cholly-
          I didn’t take any pics but there were photographers covering the event and we will post the pics with comments as soon as they arrive 🙂

        • Cholly-
          That’s true…I did look in NM..
          That decision was based on the fact that I thought I was brilliant…now I know I am not…

  51. I’ve been thinking… Since forrest has told us he’s not giving out anymore clues, but has continued to give hints (that’s my assumption) to help us with the clues… Would anyone else feel it helpful to have a discussion thread entitled “Hints”? IDK, just thinking out loud here. Maybe it would help us better associate hints with the potential proper clues.

    • Hopefully it doesn’t sound arrogant of me to say that I speculate (if it were me who hid it) the reason he is done giving out clues may be because some are on the right track, and to give out more would only add to the existing pile of correlations.

      • I have felt this to be a possibility for some time. One of the reasons I’ve mulled over his hints. I do have one solve that revolves around a specific hint/clue he gave out. It really is quite simple after putting it on a map using some math you lern in middle school.

    • I think that would be very beneficial to all of us. Maybe even a thread or post for interviews so we do not get clues mixed up with other stuff he said.

  52. 23kachinas, you’re speaking my ‘initial language’
    Latitude 45 shows up in TTOTC.
    1/2 way between n.pole and equator runs thru Montana=42
    4+2=6 6=F
    It’s all about F.

    Tried hard to convert my 4 32 points to a mirrored 23 at the end butt ended at “m” with no p’s add le on 35 like the Bullet.
    Bullet works well with my blaze. No comprende where I went wrong compadre.

    • “1/2 way between n.pole and equator runs thru Montana=42”
      Halfway between the north pole and the equator is 45.

      • Of course, I miss typed 42, but know the 45th parallel well. The sign in YNP near Gardiner is a fun photo op. Thanks for the correction bojo

  53. All,
    I thought I’d mention our current line of research: the poem does not say
    If you are wise, and find the blaze,
    If you are wise and find the blaze,
    If you’ve been wise, and found the blaze,
    Rather, the line is
    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
    We have not yet figured out why.

    Safe searching, everyone. We saw our first rattlesnake during our August search.
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • @Geoff Idaho – my suspicion at one time was related to the word “found” in reference to iron works or a stave of some sort, like a “foundry”. While I was on Dot Island, I located what appeared to me to be two rusted iron fire pits (blaze). Pictures are located on the verbose story I sent in to this site called “Connecting the dots”.

      Good luck in your search.

      • E.C.,
        Thanks for sharing that idea.
        I also tried using that meaning of “found”, but couldn’t get it to work. Back to the maps…

    • IMO your analyzing the poem with the correct idea of seeing why it is written they way it is. Some other thoughts on other words that caught my attention to ask why these usages. placements and spellings. There’ll. you’ve. I’ve. and ask why these other words don’t do the same. “I have” [ why not I’ve or I had ] “if you are brave” [ why not if you’re brave ] for some examples.

      We have been told every word was deliberate, and not all words will lead you to the TC, but would be a mistake to discount them, has to ask why these words usage? Is there a connection to them? I have asked myself those question and the more i looked the more questions came up about other words… Why use warm in the placement it is at? why cold where it is at? Does the meaning of those words work together somehow? Why treasures and then trove? Does my secret where connect with Begin it where? why does the first stanza read in past tense and the second in present, the third can be read almost in both past and present tense and the forth starts in past tense and go to present tense.

      A lot of these questions have been ask over the years… but not much talk about how they work in combination with each other as a whole. The entire poem as a single understanding. IMO your asking the right questions.

    • Geoff, I enjoy your attention to detail and have been pondering answers.

      Ironically, Forrest mentioned he was bad with comma use. (Paraphrased)

      “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze”

      One possible answer is that phrase is one complete action which yields the blaze within the poem before you arrive at the word blaze in the text.

      For instance: if Wise=blaze
      00, owl eyes, 8 or B

      Regarding “found” on the ground search;
      One meaning is “bottom” (from foundation) could be bottom, butt, or end.

      Here’s a light hearted approach – I saw an m shaped twin butte that looks like a butt or Lazy B which had a fire and an old foundation on site.

  54. Now that I had time to reflect about what FF said “few getting close” and that this is a new development since his announcement in Feb. 2015, someone will hopefully find the trove soon. Although searchers have been close to the trove, progress has been made on the poem by searchers. I’m hopeful that someone will solve the poem soon–probably not me.

    • The problem with his comments is that they do not get us any closer since he hasn’t said who was within 200 ft or who had the first two clues right. Since the TC is “hidden” hundreds of people (searchers and non searchers) could have been within 50 ft and still not have found it. Unless he tells us who was within 200 ft, it is just as useless as saying 300 miles west of Toledo, IMO of course. What we need is a definitive hint, such as it is or is not in, say, in a national park. Considering there are about 40 national parks in the search are, that would not be a very good hint either, but it sure would stir up a lot of talk and get some park rangers really angry of relieved. LOL.

  55. Hello all, coming to you from Big Sky, in a nice little motel.
    Spent the last couple of days in a rainbow haze, I never knew there were so many waterfalls in canyons in this area, that fit my solve.
    Found a nice flat rock, looked like a big “f” carved on it. It was at the base of a 40′ waterfall. It was about 6:30 pm, the sun slant just enough to start a pretty little rainbow. I lifted the rock up and there was a nice sized hole beneath it. Yes, my first thought was, “Somebody beat me to it!”, like so many others have said. But I remembered the psychology of that statement, took a cleansing breath, and kept on looking, hoping I wasn’t disturbing a sleepy snake.
    I have been keeping a journal and taking plenty of pics for a final report to Dal.
    On the flip side, if I DO find it, I will call Dal first, to meet me and escort me with his trusty video camera through the clues to the treasure.
    I have been silent with Forrest up to this point, but will let him know where I’m at and where I’m searching. It’s been almost 4 weeks now.
    I have two weeks left to search. I’m exhausted, but happy, almost peaceful.
    No, haven’t seen any rattlers or Big Foot yet, just a young bear on other side of Creek and two moose…meece…mooses?
    ¥Peace ¥

  56. I think maybe it’s time to go through all the FF quotes and decipher what he’s REALLY saying. I can’t count how many times I’ve written F to get clarification and gotten a reply something like, “That’s not what I said. Go back and read it again.”

    So, that’s what I’m doing. For example, remember the question about the blaze being a single “object?” And Forrest replying, “In a word–yes.” Well, do you think he was talking about the actual, physical blaze? I don’t. The blaze he’s referring to, IMO, is the word “blaze” in the poem, which is a direct “object.”

    He was, IMO, referring to the word “blaze” being a part of speech. And the interpretation of his reply could be a hint, or maybe not. But I don’t think he was referring to the actual, physical blaze you need to have “found.”

    I think our questions need to get so specific that there leaves no room for interpretation. And that is a tricky thing to do!

    • Mindy, your right, and that’s what I’ve been saying for months. The word ‘Blaze’ in the poem is the actual blaze in some fashion.

      Here is one example: Turn the B on its edge and you have Lazy B – looks like wise owl eyes; infinity symbol 00 notes time standing still; keep in mind Forrest threw time out the window.

      Other obvious examples using letters from Blaze are Lazy L, lazy E, etc. lower case ee of course are owl eyes or the symbol for cryllic letter “F” from my 32. It’s all about ff

      • IMO, there has to be some kind of instruction to do something like that. If somewhere it says “turn B sideways” in the poem or in the book, I am for it. otherwise it looks like “messing with the poem”.

        • UA, here are some “ideas” for consideration:

          “If we twist it a little” said Forrest Fenn; he then presented a new word and meaning in MW post by Jenny.

          According to F he likes to bend meanings, twist letter placement within words to arrive at new meaninings.

          Astree (blogger) is brilliant at this type of thinking and called to my attention the 4 Cornerstone letters in the poem: A I D E
          Which when twisted or rotated counter clockwise becomes IDEA.

          Additionally Forrest loves cowboy culture; has branded his own land and cattle company. Every cowboy has a brand; most brands are lazy letters Twisted in some format to make them unique -differentiating them from other registered brands state by state.

          Lots of twisting and switching going on in both memoirs if read for detail as well as meaning.

          If EVERYTHING is in the poem there has to be a blaze in the poem.

          What is the blaze?

          1. FF? not in poem

          2.Sunburst petroglyph? Not in poem

          3. Fish symbol?
          Not in poem

          4. Forest service blaze?
          Not in poem

          5. 66 for FF?
          Not in poem

          6. Running man f posted?
          Not in poem

          7. Double omegas? Not in the poem.

          But wait, double omegas look like a lazy B. So maybe it’s not unreasonable to twist a B, L or E etc. and arrive at the blaze “in a word” as Forrest said.

          • Just seeing who’s paying attention…

            FF is in the poem “effort”

            But imo ff knew his initials would begin showing up everywhere and picked something else

          • Never said twist a letter. Sorry but your force fitting what you hope for.

            Even in the Q&A… He used a word from the definition of admire. Did not move a letter, bend a letter, slide a letter, remove or add… Just another word from the definition to make it work.

            This is a good example of word usage to the poem, halt meaning stop as to bending it to make it work.

          • 42, that is interesting… maybe just twist the B like as in the lazy “B” or even “L” or “E”… Also, If you twist “Z” it could be an “N” …. To get you to a word that is key?

          • 42, I could not locate a registered brand in NM associated with “Fenn”. Do you know it?

            I looked into brands in MT, particularly the OTO and B Bar (thinking ΩΩ and B-lazy); dead end.

            But the ΩΩ brand in NM belongs to Ridley Gardner of Carlsbad, clearly indicating that Indulgence is in a cave near Gardiner, MT.

            Not Even IMO, in case you missed the humor.

          • Seeker,

            I throw out to get people THINKING.
            You must have forgotten that I no longer search or solve. So, no reason for me to force fit anything.

            It tickles me how much you enjoy busting my chops; almost like Fenn correcting his own information – which is meant to be a compliment.

            At least I present new ways of looking at the poem. Something more than get in a river where brown trout live and look for a rock with an F. While those solves make great vacations that we all enjoy; the poem isn’t solved.

            F said (paraphrased)
            There’s a way you must think or look at the poem.

            Maybe new ideas will help someone like Astree, Mindy, Dal or Andy Briggs “get it ALL right” instead of a lot of it right.

            IMO it’s important to remain open minded about new ideas Or messages for solving f’s poem.

          • 42,

            All for new ideas, All for different perspectives, methods, etc. Always have been always will be…

            Your post said…”According to F he likes to bend meanings, twist letter placement within words to arrive at new meaninings.”

            If you can show me anywhere, at all, someplace, anyplace fenn said Twist Letters… I for one would be very interested in seeing it. I know what the preface of the book states, I know what the Q&A on Mysterious Writing states. I never heard what you just claimed was according to fenn.

            But I’ll bet in a week time that Twisting Letters will be all over the blogs as fact… so if ya can show me where I can find that… again I would be very interested.

            If you have a problem with my comments of your post, please just tell me and I’ll stop responding to your post. I have no problems with that at all.

    • Morning Mindy,

      IMO, I hope you’re wrong, as my solve involves the blaze being a physical object found in real time and displacing real space in this world. And I also realize that I am starting to sound like a broken record here on the blog threads when I say things like “in my minds eye my solve da-dee-da” – but, in my minds eye, my solves has the blaze being a real tangible thing that must be seen in the wild for me to find Indulgence.

      Perhaps it is naive of me as a realtively new searcher in the chase, but I really think the blaze is “real”, something that can be touched, not just a thought, word or deed.

      Still looking for that elusive starting point,

    • Mindy,

      You just did what you said you didn’t want to do. “in a word yes” If that is all your going on, then you may just mislead yourself down the wrong path… I recall the Q&A on this and remember much more than, “in a word Yes.”

      There have been other comments about the Blaze as well, My suggestion is [ take it for what it’s worth ] read all of them not just one or two.

      Do you recall fenn say something to the effect… ” Just take the chest and leave my bones'”? There was much talk about it a while back. I ask what your perception on that is and how it would have affected the poem. The interesting thing about that prior line is where was it in the poem? Did it replace ” just take the chest and go in peace”? and if so, what did that do for the rhyming line ” Look quickly down your quest to cease”?

      Or could ‘…leave my bones…’ line have been at the end of the poem? We don’t know for a fact where it was in the poem. but does make one think about how the poem was laid out and may help understand what a clues is to a hint. Just saying.

      This is a good example of what has happened with the impression some got from the interview. They heard .., got a good part of it… and assumed that meant 95% of a solve. If I said… Got an important part of it… does that change the meaning of the comment. In my eyes, No “Apart” could just mean 1 part of the solve… Like maybe the word that is key.

      Signholder’s wife may have a good thought that the poem holds the blaze, The markers or points we must follow and if the last spot has one as well then, that is a Blaze too. So is the Blaze in the poem or Only in the field? The answer just “maybe” Both.
      Can the blaze be removed, sure it can, but would be unwise to do so, either in the field or the poem… People like straightforwards when it comes to the poem, why do they skip that thought when it comes to the comments.

      Just thoughts.

        • I’m still working on that SB… have you ONUAT or anyone else given Fenn a guess. Just curious. I think I have it nailed down to some body of water. lol.

          • Seeker, I believe it all comes down to what is “IT”.IMO each clue has been marked with some sort of trail blaze,an f maybe or a “spot” of some kind.
            I also believe that Forrest until recently had been checking in on Indulgence and for some unknown reason cannot find the blaze that marks his trail.
            On my very first search sept 2014,I had followed a trail of fresh trail blaze,s from WWH to Canyon down to Below the home of Brown and at the nigh end. 🙂 but they were not there on my second trip Apr 2015.DO NOT TOUCH.I hope to check on the trail blaze,s I found not in close proximity to the human trail on my next trip..expensive folly!
            Crow anyone.. 🙂

    • I think he is saying “in a (blank), yes” like the blaze is in a rock, in a tree, in a hillside – a singular feature within something larger.

  57. I have to admit, the first time my wife read the poem, her impression of “the blaze” was the poem itself.
    She said: it is the marker that guides you down the trail

    • I just had a thought last night that perhaps the blaze is not a single object. When you “blaze a trail” you can’t just leave a single marker; a line needs at least two vertices.

      • Joesph,

        Exactly IMO. If I said to you a car is a single object, you would mostly agree. If I said, 4 wheels, two axles, 4 doors, trunk, hood, glass, engine and transmission, is a single object would you still agree?

        Many objects can make up a single object. It’s all about the correct intended interpretation of the Author. If a Blaze as 9 markers, could that not be interpret as a single object as well. So i’ll ask this question, There are many WWWH and nearly all of them are North of SF… is WWWH single in meaning?

          • LOL… but I’ll take it a step further Blazeone and ask… Is the Rocky Mountains a single object ?

          • The Rockies are a single place but not a single object thus the plural mountains. I feel that Forrest has givin us a hint to solve this clue. You of all seekers should have this nailed down, you know the words by heart but haven’t heard them yet.

          • Rockies not a single object, ok. in most cases I would go along with that logically. But this is not a normal case but a poem, and the problem with a poem is the use of words read may not be the use of words meant.
            Halt as in stop or Halt as in change in direction. Same word to completely opposite definitions.

            If a marker is a place such as a tree and another marker as a rock and yet another as building do they not make an object… Think hard. Tree… Rock… Building. [ All hypothetical points ] Hint; it’s not what they are but what the design and is that design not an object?

            So is WWWH a single object or does it design something that is?

            That will hurt your brain at first but seriously keep thinking before you answer.

  58. @Goofy et al: I just emailed Richard Eed’s and asked if he would share the Briggs email he had received and had forwarded to Fenn, low and behold I got a reply right away. Should I copy and past on here? I haven’t even read it yet, still in shock that Eed replied!

  59. Spallies, good thought on N

    Joseph, I’ve tried in both MT & NM Lokking for F’s brand or One horse land and cattle company brand , etc.

    Its a complicated search because of retired brands, current, available, county by county, etc. some records were available only to the ranchers. (I gave up.)

  60. Re Brigg’s email to Richard Eed (recent chat regarding email to Eed that got forwarded to Forrest)

    Hello Richard,

    I’m emailing my story of cracking the code to Forrest Fenn’s $4m treasure poem. I used a special codeword to reveal a secret message. This lays out the path to the treasure, step by step. But, I can’t solve one last piece of the puzzle, so I’m throwing it open.

    Recently there have been many news items covering the treasure hunt. US national news channels CBS and NBC have carried long items about the Fenn treasure and major newspapers worldwide have carried detailed articles including the Times, USA Today and Huffington Post.

    So, there are hundreds of thousands of people actively engaged in searching for the treasure and more trying to solve the riddle.

    I can provide a huge head-start to all those people by narrowing down the location of the treasure chest. In this way Searchers will have to solve only one last part of the riddle – the part I failed to solve myself.

    I’m going to make public my solution to see if anyone can solve the last part.

    Below is a press release giving the summary of how I cracked the riddle to reveal a secret message. This message sets out the path to the treasure chest. It says:

    ‘Go west. In a short hour you see a big lake, cross it, run south – west. ——————–. Mirror this trail. Aim south and look heading west for a grey ‘F’ sign.’

    The path takes a winding route past a lake and through trees within one of the National Forests in the Rocky Mountains.

    Press Release.

    Man cracks treasure poem riddle.

    Forrest Fenn, a retired American art and antiquities dealer claims to have hidden a treasure chest worth millions of dollars in one of four States of the USA: New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming or Montana. He says the chest is located somewhere within the Rocky Mountains at an elevation above 5000 ft.

    Mr Fenn has written a cryptic poem containing nine clues that he says lead to the location of the chest. His riddle has confounded many people for many years. According to Forrest no one yet has found his treasure.

    Andrew Briggs, a budding Treasure Hunter heard of Forrest’s puzzle and became enthralled by the tale of an impenetrable riddle holding the secret to a hoard of ancient treasure. Andrew inspired by ‘Indiana Jones’ decided to set off on his own treasure quest.

    He began his adventure in early 2014. Mr Briggs now claims to have solved the riddle and is close to finding the treasure.

    Secret code-word.

    Andrew told us: ‘after following many wrong leads eventually I discovered a pattern within the text of Forrest’s puzzle. One night I stayed up late, trying to piece together some of the clues I’d found. Through the early hours I analysed the structure of the text and the pattern that I’d noticed emerged even stronger. At this point my mind started racing.’

    He continued: ‘On a bit of a hunch and with a great deal of luck I discovered the pattern hidden within the riddle was made up of encrypted text that could be unlocked using a special keyword. When I scanned the keyword against the pattern, something amazing happened. In fact I thought I was hallucinating. The keyword revealed a secret message.’

    Treasure location revealed.

    Andrew said this message laid out the path, step-by-step to the treasure chest. The path took a winding route through mountains, past a lake, through a forest then on to the location of the chest:

    ‘Go west. In a short hour you see a big lake, cross it, run south – west. ——————–. Mirror this trail. Aim south and look heading west for a grey ‘F’ sign.’

    Andrew continued: ‘my heart was jumping. The treasure was now within my grasp. But I thought not so fast. Almost immediately I realised Forrest had deliberately left out part of the directions.’

    Mr Briggs said he had to find this part from a source external to the poem. It became apparent that Forrest’s riddle comprised several different layers.

    Even though Andrew reckons he has now found the missing part of the directions he says that he has struggled to interpret this part in order to pinpoint the exact location of the treasure chest.

    He added ‘ I’ve navigated through nearly all of the layers of security and deciphered 95% of the riddle but haven’t been able to crack the final bit’.

    But he’s close. Andrew says he has reduced the size of the search area to a relatively small section of one of the national forests in the Rocky Mountains. He is certain the exact location of the treasure chest will be found when someone can add the correct last 5% of the directions to the 95% he has ‘set in stone’.

    Can you solve the last part of the riddle?

    Mr Briggs is sharing his solution with others to see if anyone can solve the last part of the directions. He believes more people are required to provide fresh interpretation.

    Andrew has made his solution public within an e-book called ‘Title to the Gold’. He declared: ‘I would be delighted if this enabled another Searcher to find the treasure chest and claim the items of treasure hidden by Forrest. I would be thrilled to have played a part in the find.’

    So, why not become a budding Treasure Hunter yourself? Andrew believes that each person’s mind works differently so it’s likely someone will be able to see something that he’s missed. He says if someone can solve the last part of the riddle the treasure will be theirs.

    Andrew thinks the lucky person is likely to be someone who has a quirky mind who sees things in a different way. He concluded by saying: ‘one person out there will have a natural way of thinking that allows them to see the correct way to interpret the last part of the directions. He or she will be the one who claims title to the gold!’

    Background to the Fenn treasure.

    Forrest has stated the chest contains hundreds of gold coins, gold nuggets, antique bracelets, antique carved figures, necklaces, diamonds, emeralds, rubies and sapphires. Estimates of the value of the contents range from $1-4 million

    His poem is contained within a book published in 2010 called ‘The Thrill of the Chase’.

    According to Forrest, each year since the book was published tens of thousands of people have searched for the Treasure Chest. But, no one yet has found it.

    Mr Fenn doesn’t think anyone will happen upon the chest by accident or by randomly searching within the four States. He has stated that the person who finds the chest will have deciphered the answers to the clues in his poem correctly and then will progress confidently to the right location.


    You can download a sample of my e-book at At your request I will email a PDF of the whole e-book.

    I am happy to help Searchers if they want to email me with any questions.


    Andrew Briggs

    Richard Eeds
    Morning Drive Host 7-11a Monday thru Friday
    KVSF 101.5
    Santa Fe, NM

    • I wish I had ten bucks for every “almost right” solution I’ve come up with. That’s a thought; I wonder how many copies of a book I could sell with hundreds of almost solutions. BUT WAIT!!! Today and today only. 🙂

      “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.” f

      • I’ll buy your book Goofy, I’m totally lost, so I need all the help I can get. Are we looking for a word that is key, a keyword, a secret word, a code word, a magic word…? I don’t even have TTOTC or tftw, now I have to buy seventeen dollars a sq, inch to solve the poem?

        Seems if this guy had the ‘right’ word he wouldn’t need to sell a book.

        Oh right… my opinion, Just saying, seems to me, could be… possibly.

        • Funny that the thought of selling my solve did cross my mind. What % of the take would someone give me if it is the correct solution? No charge if the chest is not found. If I were greedy, this is the route I could follow.

          The experience of making the trip is more important personally. So into the wilderness I shall go.

      • Gang,

        So I go and buy Brigg’s book using my handy-dandy Visa card. Some time later, let’s say 3 years just to make it realistic, I find the chest. Could he claim that he “helped me find it” and lay claim to it?

        Be careful out there.

        • Theoretically, anyone could claim they helped you even w/out prior interaction. IMO this is just another burned searcher trying to cash in and recoup some expended funds and/or get compensated for research that just did not work. Some folks can’t come to terms and realize they are wrong and let it go. Personally I just don’t understand that mentality. That’s what keeps the world going around. Stay safe folks and best of luck to all searchers.

      • TTOTC Google Earth and/or a good map…no mention of any other books or poems. Imagine that. Sounds simple but …

    • Ridiculous. Everything you need to find the chest is in the poem. So from where did he get his key words for the cipher? Oh that’s right, a cipher won’t help you….

      • F said he’d solved a lot — maybe. He couldn’t get to the gold using what he’d received via email. I wouldn’t write this guy off, sounds like an intelligent dude. He did say a few are getting close, we just don’t know who.

      • I wouldn’t be so hasty to call it ridiculous.I’m not saying I believe this, but I cant automatically dismiss it.Very well could be a key in this that unlocks directions.If I’m not mistaken, I remember Forrest stating, a comprehensive knowlege of geometry would help in finding the chest.So..maybe everything needed isn’t exactly in the poem.

          • I’m pretty sure I was right.Now never mention that other word on this blog again ;)..In conclusion a comprehensive knowlege of something outside the poem is needed?

          • No confusion at all, Jeremy P.My post was worded exactley how I wanted it.I didn’t really want to mention geography because I hate refreshing it in ppls minds.However by misquoting Fenn it probably brought it more my plan backfired on that.I had already read your post, Jeremy P.I enjoyed reading it again.

          • Funny thing about that:when I first heard the statement about geography, I went to barns n noble the next day to buy some geographical studie books, had a brain slip, and bought geology books.Turns out I like looking at and reading about geology so it worked out 🙂

  61. and a second email from Richard Eeds that Briggs had sent with some additional notes or information:

    ello Richard,

    The answers to clues I have given are right due to the decryption codewords generating meaningful text but I’ve had feedback that my reasons for choosing a couple of answers looked a little thin to someone viewing them afresh.

    After this feedback I decided to tighten up some of these references so I’ve updated Section 3.3.

    Examples include:

    Forrest mentioned Cary Grant in the Foreword to his book ‘Seventeen Dollars a Square Inch’. So that’s at least two places Cary Grant is mentioned – the book that influenced him ‘Catcher in the Rye’ and in his own Foreword.

    Forrest owned the Remington sculpture the Bronco Buster.

    I’ve attached an updated PDF.


    Andrew Briggs

    Richard Eeds

  62. @Goofy et al: Briggs email wasn’t cut and pasted, here it is for those that want to take him up on his offer of assistance! I’d just be curious to know which Nat. Park or state he is thinking.

  63. ‘Go west. In a short hour you see a big lake, cross it, run south – west. ——————–. Mirror this trail. Aim south and look heading west for a grey ‘F’ sign.’

    Cross a big lake. Did Fenn drive his car across a big lake? He ran south-west at 80? Aim south and look heading west – sounds dangerous, like you might walk off a cliff.

  64. This just in from Briggs to my email! I’d emailed him about an hour ago west coast time…..

    Hello Charles,

    I’ve asked Dal to remove my home phone number and address from the blog site.

    I’m happy to help Searchers if they email me at my blog site email address


    Andrew Briggs

    Okay Andrew, no worries, I’ll not ring you up and I’ll forget the other email address.. Best, Cholly Quinnelly, Ukiah CA USA

    • That’s what happens when you say you solved the poem and put your book up for sale….notoriety has its cost.

    • Andrew I edited the comment with your information in it……I don’t think there are any more….If there is let me know.

      While we have you here I have a question if you don’t mind. How do you reconcile your method of solving the poem with Fenn’s statement about codes and ciphers?

      APRIL 2014
      Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f

      • @goofy, please edit my 12:35 post this topic, I have his personal ady posted…, talk about stirring up some stuff, I’ve apologized to both him and the DJ for any hassles and meant no harm…..and to you too goofy for any additional work….In other off topic news, nice little rain here in NorCal today, much needed…..

  65. Lol, Jake. Bridges cross lakes. I’m not endorsing his solve. But maybe his method of looking into the meanings of words is a possible way to figure it out. F did say to look up the meaning of words in dictionary.
    Example: high. Change the spelling to “hie”.
    “High” means- a great vertical extent.
    “Hie” means- go quickly
    It still sounds the same, diff meaning in a sentance.
    F did mispell knowledge to knowlege. He creates words to suit his poetry, like the poem he wrote to Dal. So he loves words. By moving the letters to sound the same, it creates a possibly diff meaning.
    Now before everyone starts screaming, “He said don’t mess with his poem!”, this is not messing as far as changing the sound of the word, just the spelling. One word can have several meanings in dictionary. Question is, which meaning does F want us to use in solve. It would still read:
    “Just heavy loads and water hie.” ….telling you, you won’t be paddling up your creek, just heavy loads (flyfishing term for fast-swift current) and water high (hie- quickly cross).
    I read the paddle clue as not going up the creek, but cross the swiftly moving Creek quickly, which you have to or be knocked on your rear, can’t stand still in fast water!
    That’s all my IMO. Don’t shred me too bad. Just another idea on trying to solve. It fits the area I’m in, plenty of fast moving rivers/creeks and rainbows.
    Took off early. Craved a steak dinner!
    ¥PEACE ¥

    • Donna,
      I don’t know of any big lakes that have bridges going across them in the Rockies, roads getting to the other side usually run beside the lake because it’s cheaper I guess. You are still messing with his poem by changing the spelling of a word. It’s OK to to have different meanings for the same spelled word although knowledge & knowlege was merely a spelling error who was quoting Fenn I think because if you go to his website here:
      You will see the word is spelled correctly.

      I do like you Hieroglyph theory as I have commented yesterday above.

  66. One more further example:
    (It would be ‘highrowglyph’ if F spelled it, lol.)
    Hum…possibly I was WISE and found the blaze?
    Again, using the sounds of the word, and additional meaning of words.
    Again, IMO, just an idea to share, give or take it.
    Be safe
    ₩PEACE ₩

    • Donna, Now that’s some good “thinking” and is one of the best “methods” offered to unlocking the clues and frankly I will not be surprised if that kind of analysis is what leads to the treasure–like ff said ….its all in the poem….. Good luck to you!

      • Thank you Raven. It’s the “method” I’ve used to get where I’m at now. Well, not exactly now, at a little mountain bar eating.
        But, thanks for being nice!

  67. Hello Goofy,

    Thanks for removing those. They really shouldn’t have been published.

    When Forrest was talking about complex codes and ciphers I think he was talking about mathematical codes and the like. People were generating numbers from the postmarks in his book, converting them to algorithms etc.

    The Lewis & Clark ‘thing’ is a simple letter substitution. He probably didn’t regard that as a ‘cipher’ as it’s not numerically based although that’s what it is, however simple.

    I don’t know but my guess is that when Forrest said he regretted telling Searchers one thing, saying ciphers weren’t involved may have been the one thing he regretted?

    Note: no cipher is involved with the given text of the poem. The cipher is involved once you get the answers to the clues. So technically a cipher doesn’t help Searchers solve answers to the ‘clues’ themselves.


    The White Knight (Andrew Briggs).

    • Andrew,

      I need to understand you, so can you clarify … Once you have the 9 clues is when you need The L&C cipher?

      Does that contradic all you need to solve is the clue? If the clues themselves need solving after you know what they are seem very strange to what we have been told from the start of the chase

    • I disagree with you Andrew, although it is only my opinion, I think many searchers may feel like I do that this is definitively a cipher. I am quite sure that you must be familiar with the Edgar Allen Poe story “The Gold Bug” in which a cipher is used to find Captain Kidds treasure. The cipher in the story is based on letter frequency and is quite similar to the Lewis cipher. The point is that many of the searchers have abandoned, possibly erroneously, pursuit of a solution based on just this sort of solve. That being said perhaps you can answer my question. Why would anyone not finish such a good solve? You say 95% solution but the fact is that 5% of the search area is still massive amount of land. If you have it nailed down to say a square mile and cannot physically search this area, why not? We all know an 80 year old man went there, twice in a day no less. If you do solve this chase I will buy your book, till then I have a square mile to search.

    • White Knight….Fenn made the comment he regretted saying something after an interview last year….it had to do with Pinyon trees…..he stated in a written email that ciphers were not needed……you are further confusing this…..perhaps it would have been helpful if you followed what Fenn specifically said…..please read below:
      Scrap Book 62
      APRIL 2014

      Forrest Quoted: “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers,…will not assist anyone to the TC.”

      “Knowing about” something and ‘using’ those things to solve the clues hold different meanings –

      I find your justification of using a cipher, by taking a quote from an unrelated interview out of context unacceptable. If you solved the puzzle you would have the treasure, therefore you did not solve the puzzle.

      • You’ve obviously put a lot of thought into your solve and came up with some pretty creative ideas. I think I get the gist of it. I don’t need to buy the book. Pretty sure I can’t help with the remaining 5% of your solve.

        I did want to sincerely wish you good luck with the search. Apparently you may be on to something.

      • Andrew,

        I wrote some quick software for decrypting a Jefferson Cipher (aka Lewis and Clark). Here’s the code:

        If you’d like, I’d be happy to modify it to your methodology and try to replicate your results. My understanding is that you tried hundreds of keywords. I ran it against a dictionary of over 100,000 words as a test this evening on the phrases “blaze” and “where warm waters halt” (still looking at the output).

        Feel free to contact me at

        My only stipulation is that I’d insist on sharing the results with the public at large.

    • Andrew thanks for answering the question. I want to commend you for putting your solution out there for discussion and taking questions. Some only declare they are right and aren’t willing to back up their assertions.

      I understand what you are saying but getting around his very clear no codes or ciphers statement by assuming he regretted telling searchers there are no codes or ciphers is quite a stretch in my opinion. By your reasoning the chest could be in Utah because he regretted saying that so the chest is actually in Utah.

      I’m not sure what statement you’re speaking of where he said there is one thing he regretted telling searchers (New Mexico video????). If there is a statement he regretted I think it would his “WWWH is not a dam” statement he made to some searchers and came here to say WWWH is not a dam to level the playing field.

      Again thanks for taking questions.

    • I’m sure you are an intelligent person, Andrew, and I believe that your solution was a real AHA moment for you. But a cipher is a cipher, defined as follows: a secret method of writing, as by transposition or substitution of letters, specially formed symbols, or the like.

      The fact that you used a letter substitution qualifies it as a cipher. I just don’t see any way around that.

    • White Knight,

      Why was your keyword plural? I can email you if you’d rather discuss offline.
      Will the updates to your book update book already purchased?

  68. well…imo…..I recall FF saying people were with in 500 feet of the Treasure by getting the second clue right. So If one could get all eight…then wouldnt it be easy to find maybe with in 100 feet radious??? you really dont need the last clue. FF did state that each clue got easier as the searcher could answer each clue in sequence. So why give out the solve if you solved 80% – 90%?? Am i missing something??

    • also:

      from amazon:

      Product Details
      File Size: 2231 KB
      Print Length: 74 pages
      Publication Date: August 18, 2015
      Sold by: Amazon Digital Services, Inc.
      Language: English
      ASIN: B0145S7IU2
      Text-to-Speech: Enabled
      Not Enabled
      Word Wise: Not Enabled
      Lending: Enabled

      74 pages??
      No reviews yet when Publication date was August 18?

      IMO seems a bit funny

      • Texas
        He has to defend his flawed solve, because he is peddling his book. At least Pam wasn’t trying to cash in…..I wonder how many rabbit roles he is sending searchers down….I think he should be banned from the site….just like all the others who have said they solved this, when they have not. I continue to be disappointed by this guy….now Fenn regrets his comments on ciphers…..the arrogance to assume he knows what Fenn thinks…..

        • Boy Betsy, folks just think I’m tough…….I agree he’s promoting his book. But he hasn’t been obnoxious, arrogant and pushy toward others here. He released his solution for all to see and he is apparently pretty shrewd at marketing. He got the interviewer to ask Fenn about his solution which elevated his solution above the others.

          That’s a double edge sword; everyone has heard of his solution now, but he’s also been thrown into the shark tank. In my opinion the premise of his solution has been thoroughly shredded.

          I don’t believe he is leading anyone down rabbit holes any more that anyone else here with an opinion; and there are many. Each searcher is responsible for their decisions.

          • Goofy, I read your rebuttal as I snuggled down early, for my continued search tomorrow, and it reminded me of F’s scrap book on the weeds~flowers.
            What right has anyone to say their flower is a weed?
            Anyone who works hard on their solve, and has pride in it and believes in it, should not be bashed here. The idea of the blog is to pick each other’s brains and exchange ideas.
            If one is not accepted by someone, a polite “Thank you for sharing.” , is all that’s needed.
            I commend you for allowing everyone to confidently share their solves. None of us will know if it is hog wash, til the treasure is found!
            Y’all play nice!
            Good night.
            €Peace €

          • Well Donna I know some think that disagreement and constructive criticism is bad. That expressing our opinions and having those opinions challenged is bashing.

            Most folks here are supportive of those that post their solutions and ideas, and as I have said many times I commend anyone for putting their ideas out for discussion.

            But without a robust discussion and constructive criticism on the merits of an idea or solution all we would have is a cheerleading squad and a total waste of time.

            In my opinion.

        • Betsy,
          I can understand your dismay to this solve using ciphers, Yet there are many here doing the same thing. One guy who was even mentioned today is doing all kinds of ciphers and codes… I’ll add he is a smart cookie in my book, just the wrong approach as we have been told it is. There have been solutions post on this site, and others that have contained ciphers and code in one form or other. Even my solve with, A is the first letter of the alphabet and use that number 1, B as 2, C as 3 { commonly know letter to numbers matching } to a set coordinates, was called a cipher.

          Are you so upset that you want this guy band from the site, because you piddle away 10 $ by your own choosing to do so? Because I haven’t seen you say too much about all the other cipher users.

          The only ones he is leading down the rabbit hole are the ones who allow themselves to be lead. Yep he may sell a few books, but so have others who claimed the same.

          • I am one of the ones who picked a copy of Andrew’s book. Honestly it was an interesting read. I don’t know that it’s an accurate solution, but there was clearly a lot of thought put into it and it’s a creative approach.

            Mr. Fenn said three things about his solve on the interview (paraphrasing):
            1. He should be added to the list of searchers who have presumed to know the solution to the clues.
            2. He has a lot of it figured out, maybe
            3. He wasn’t able to come up with the correct solve using his approach.

            IMO, I think Forrest is impressed with the degree of thought that went into Andrew’s solve but not the outcome.

          • Goofy, read it again. I said it was a place to exchange ideas and pick each other’s brains. I meant, if you so adamantly disagree, don’t bash, just be polite. We should dissect ideas, but not to the point we are being mean. You addressed it fine. Thank you.

  69. In my dreams last night it was repeated that ‘the end is ever drawing nigh’ was a reference to a drawing at the end of the book. I probably got that idea from the boards yesterday and it popped up in my subconscious. Anyway I had to get up and look at the last drawing in the book. It is of the boy looking up at a bird in a nest on the cresent moon. Loony, I know.
    Shall I look up Loons, or bird nest, or is there a meaning on the page that I missed?

    • “The end is ever drawing nigh;” or
      “The end is drawing ever nigh;
      Is your subconscious messing with the poem?
      Maybe the boy is Fenn & I do know loons like the water.
      You may have tapped into something here.
      I have planned a trip to West Yellowstone getting there on the third & searching for the treasure on the fourth of Oct, which is a crescent moon night (Last quarter). 21:06 U.T.

    • @Michael Hendrickson – that last illustration in TTOTC doesn’t match well with the accompanying text and confuses me above all else in the book.

      Here are my meager observations and probably hold no relevance:

      -F mentioned somewhere he watched Lonesome Dove while going thru cancer treatments.

      – this page is a “Forest graveyard”
      F liked graveyards.

      – small stumps in background resemble a fort and in number the ones on left match number of grandchildren + one alone on right – perhaps one who passed?

      -Large stumps could represent family and a couple friends.

      -The black boots don’t appear to be waders.

      Is the woodsman Forrest who ‘made firewood’ trying his whole life to please his dad?

      I would enjoy hearing your ideas.

      • One last idea on the bird,
        Crescent moons have represented women for thousands of years. The five or loon found shelter and peace with mother. I think F felt that way based on his comments in both memoirs.

      • @Lis I get ‘rest in peace’ from the dove/nest/moon and mission accomplished from the wood cutter, with a little bit of graveyard symbolized from the stumps. Some one else posted months back about the boots looking like fireman’s boots….So, I’m thinking the special spot had a fire at some point prior to placing the chest but is still very special. IMO

      • It may just be a simple environmental statement. All the trees were cut down, leaving no habitat for the bird. So, the bird builds a nest in the moon. FF wants us to reflect how we treat the environment and the creatures in it. This is a reflection of the character of his father. It is not a hint about the treasure, it’s about life.

        • Michael-
          I agree with you about the intent behind that illustration 100%. It is Forrest’s environmental statement…and he makes the same statement with the illustration of the logger rappelling over a cliff to cut down the last little tree. Of course this is simply my opinion but I don’t believe there are any clues intended in those illustrations.

  70. A ‘comprehensive knowledge of

    My ‘Working definition’
    An extensive understanding of the earth, it’s features, distribution of life on earth especially human life and human activity.

    IMO – it’s more about human life than we attribute to the poem. With Forrest’s life long interest in Paleo man and animals, I can’t discount a solve based on past inhabitation or trails followed by ancients. Might be more important than fly fishing in finding the place. (Yes, I know the ancients fished).

    n. The study of the earth and its features and of the distribution of life on the earth, including human life and the effects of human activity.
    n. The physical characteristics, especially the surface features, of an area.
    n. The study of the physical structure and inhabitants of the Earth.
    n. The physical structure of a particular region; terrain.

    scope or content as to include much.
    adj. Marked by or showing extensive understanding: comprehensive knowledge.
    n. An examination or series of examinations covering the entire field of major study, given in the final undergraduate or graduate year of college. Often used in the plural.

  71. “Logic will get you from point A to point B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    ~Albert Einstein ~
    Everyone needs to keep this in mind when reviewing other’s ideas!

  72. If I might redirect to “the nine clues” …

    Has anyone asked f “why nine?” Or has it already been discussed ad nauseum? I mean, I guess it takes what it takes, but the significance of the number 9 in all kinds of things seems out of place to me. TTOTC was his ninth book. He found his first arrowhead at the age of nine. He talks about Osbourne Russell’s nine years in the wilderness.

    I’ve been studying Mnemosyne, muses, and the warm pool of Lethe for a few days now because f mentioned the chest as being a Byzantine cast bronze chest. F writes about “where even memory itself will never have been” which is what put me on this tangent.

    I’d like to avoid numerology and Biblical comparisons if possible, and ask this audience: “anyone know why nine?” Any Greek mythology fans out there? Elysian Falls is curious.

    Oh, and if geography is a hot topic at the moment, did you know there’s actually a Treasure Island in Yellowstone?

    • Well it’s because of “I”… I is the beginning and ending.

      As I have gone alone in there

      I give you title to the gold

      “I” is the 9th letter of the alphabet

      Treasures is the only 9 letter word in the poem.

      In summary “l” is where the treasures are @

    • EC,
      Going back in the old case files of the brain here, so take it for what it’s worth. I believe the reason for nine was, he simply counted clues when he was done writing the poem, and there were 9. I do remember the question, and I’m just guessing it may have been Q&A on MW.

    • Forrest saying the chest was Byzantine seemed another example of Forrest misspeaking when doing a live interview. In the past he has always said the chest was Romanesque which is the period between about 1000 AD to about the 13th century. And from research that has been done on the chest, it is most likely Romanesque. Sometimes I wish Forrest wouldn’t do any more live interviews as some of the things he says can be very confusing especially when he has difficulty hearing the question or has difficulty coming up with the word he wants to use. 🙂

      • adj. Of, relating to, or being a style of European architecture containing both Roman and Byzantine elements, prevalent especially in the 11th and 12th centuries and characterized by massive walls, round arches, and relatively simple ornamentation.

      • CJinCA,

        The way I view the changes in information we hear is that if anyone of us were 85 maybe we would have the right to be wrong once in a while…

        Not long ago someone I know got upset they couldn’t have their favorite waitress serve them at a local breakfast joint. They stopped going until the owner called them for a sit down meeting at the restaurant to explain why they got a different waitress.

        Turns out there was a good reason the other gal needed the tips that day (she was newly pregnant) but people get used to what they get used to and expect the same things.

        I’m not saying you’re ever going to get any answers from Forrest but people have their own reasons for saying or not saying things a certain way. For them its right and thats all that matters.

        • Exactly 23. Forrest is 85 and sometimes has difficulty answering questions the way he would really want to during live interviews. The dam comment he made to someone that he felt the need to clarify on the blog here and the pinyon comment in the NM video are examples of him saying things he wished he had not. This Byzantine comment doesn’t mean anything to me and most of the time he does not make these kinds of mistakes however I do listen carefully to everything he says and agree that he has the right to be wrong. 🙂

          • @23 and CJ, I agree too, regarding at 85 y..o it’s okay to make a few mistake, (hope I get to live that long) Now, about those lobster nets……! IMO

  73. Hers a thought I would like to share as the night grows late. I’ve always considered water high as a waterfall due to the war story and that he keeps mention the one in his back yard. Searching Google earth, I notice a water tank on a hill near the search area I was in and it struck me how many boys will climb water towers to put their girl friends name on it, not that I think FF would have done that, but I bet he has climber as few. A water tower or tank fits the “Water High” and if he hid the chest on top of one it couldn’t be seen unless you climber the tower. BE SAFE if you decide to climb one, and it is probably illegal. Has to be a short one that he could have climbed at 79 or 80. Just all IMO, late at night.

    • @not obsessed IMO most searchers are aware of the several hundred years from now idea or staying away from man made objects, things that will not be around for hundreds of years from now….but good idea, especially when combined with an old steam train like the Chili Train….but already ruled out IMO yea, late for sure and I’m obsessed!

    • Not Obsessed,
      Other have mention the connect of a water tower as a place for a clue. I personally don’t think a water tower would be a place for hiding the chest, for one reason… maintenance and inspections. Fenn also stated he hid the chest and contents in two trips in one afternoon… so the “late at night” would be a stretch in my book.

      Sure you could argue the flash light comment. But anyone who as been in thick wooded area with an unexpected thunderhead rolling in will tell you, it can get pretty dark real fast. A flashlight is a must, just like water if going hiking anywhere.

  74. observation:
    The poem is written in Iambic Tetrameter, four sets of “short syllable – long syllable.”
    da DUM da DUM da DUM da DUM.
    There are however three lines that don’t follow this exactly
    And with my treasures bold, – only three iambs
    I can keep my secret where, – missing first short syllable
    Not far, but too far to walk. – missing first short syllable

    My Opinion:
    Could one or all of these three lines be important since they don’t fit with the cadence so closely followed in every other line?
    There has been some talk of why Fenn chose specific words, past tense, present tense, contractions. I think a lot of it is in order to maintain the cadence.
    There’ll be no paddle up your creek, feels and sounds a lot better than There will be no paddle up your creek.
    So why not make those three lines match? It wouldn’t be too hard just throw in an extra word, “it’s not far, but too far to walk.” “but I can keep my secret where” “And with my treasures bright and bold”.
    Maybe just artistic license on Fenn’s part, maybe they are lines we are supposed to notice.

    • IMO, the cadence anomalies in the architecture of the poem (lines 2-3-7) are aesthetic, like the cadence anomalies of the stone wall architecture in TFTW. (pg 177)

      Another TFTW anomaly came to mind when q1erty2 mentioned “an one” twice in one post on Sept. 14. I asked about it but got no response. On pg 238 Fenn wrote: “I … nailed an one-hundred dollar bill …” Are there customs or rules about this “an one” thing?

      • OS,

        Not sure if this will be helpful or just muddy the waters further, but usually the word “an” is used instead of “a” in front of vowels in the English language. However, one rhymes with won, which is a “w” sound at the beginning opf the word, and coloquially, many folks simply say “a” instead of “an”, whicih is grammaticaly more correct.

        Rabbit hole ahead:

        ghoti = fish

        • Thanks swwot, I hadn’t come across the ghoti=fish thing before. I got it, but I’m gonna leave it alone. Sound and rhythm things are more difficult for me (therefore less interesting) than visually complex ones.

    • Springer42 – thanks for posting the poems cadence info. Cadence is important in fly-fishing too and may share a similar daDum in casting.

      iamb. Iamb is a beat in a line of poetry where one unstressed syllable is followed by a stressed syllable. Iamb sounds like a heartbeat, sort of like duh-DUH. When four beats are placed together in a line of poetry, it is called tetrameter. When we combine iamb with tetrameter, it is a line of poetry with four beats of one unstressed syllable followed by one stressed syllable, and it is called iambic tetrameter. It sounds like: duh-DUH, duh-DUH, duh-DUH, duh-DUH

      Since its integral to the poem’s architecture; perhaps
      4 beats; 2 syllables
      Weight of chest is 42
      Numerically, Montana = 42

      Could be a reference to latitude or road #42

      Let us know what you figure out regarding the unmatched cadence of 3 lines. That’s a very interesting tack.

  75. Has anyone explored the Shoshone national forest area… ..seems like a vast untapped region. All I ever hear about is YNP, anyone?

  76. White Knight,
    As your biggest and most vocal critic….I must at a minimum give you a great deal of credit for discovering the depths of this poem. It would be foolhardy to dismiss something out of turn, and so I wish you and all The Searchers God Speed and Good Luck….

  77. I followed all of the clues.. while some will say that I am empty handed… I still tried to give everything that forrest was hinting at…. But yes… I didn’t find it… But I’m sure he did. He can have his necklace back.. for free….

  78. Is anyone else out searching in the Rockies right now…if so don’t forget your hot cider…I saw temps in the 30’s last night.

  79. I am, right now. Well, I’m eating now. But, yeah. It got pretty cold last night, but tolerable now.
    Searching S. MT.
    £Peace £

  80. How deep is a hole, well Forrest how deep is it? 4ft deep or more, can somebody recall how deep he buried the bells? I’m pretty sure I remember him saying outside the range of a metal detector. I think he also said a metal detector would work if you were in exactly the right spot. That statement to me all but admits he buried it.

  81. Mark J – thanks for clarifying that both Roman and Byzantine elements were prevalent especially in the 11th and 12th centuries.

    Many of us are not as knowledgeable as forrest – who is able to interchange terms from time periods and cultures that crossover.

    Regarding the treasure chest.
    Forrest indicates in TTOTC and various interviews:

    Romanesque – Byzantium
    Circa 1150 AD
    Expertly cast bronze
    Encased a Book of days or Bible
    [Only royalty & rich noblemen could afford books in the Middle Ages.]
    Purchased from a museum
    It’s old, it’s very good.
    It’s The *PERFECT* chest for Forrest’s treasures.

    WHY is it perfect to Forrest ? I don’t see fishing lures, arrow points, or fighter jets.
    So what can we determine?

    Here’s my opinion based on the chest’s details which can be seen; and its importance to a museum.

    The most recent photo of the chest and lid Forrest released on Dal’s site regarding photo session shows these details – (NOT the photo on of 126 TTOTC.)

    1. The top of the chest shows the gate to a castle keep in the shape of a large “H”. The perimeter around the H forms a capital “E”

    2. The shield design surrounding the perimeter of the lid appear to incorporate Fleur d’lis or the “Lillies of France” – heraldry of Queen Eleanor. Quincunxes and lozenge shape affiliated with the French (also Masonic orders who are predated by Templar Knights)

    3. Hinge decoration is a battering ram – indicative of how castle keeps were stormed.

    4. Siege ladders with knights climbing the walls decorate the sides shown in photo.

    How ‘might’ chest details assist in solutions?

    1. Perhaps the H or E are important. The poem IMO gives evidence to the blaze being a Lazy “E” or Elizabetian style “E”. The most highlighted coin in front of chest is of Queen Elizabeth. Strange anomaly in Forrest’s mix of American Eagles and double Eagles. E=5, dozens of 5 or 55 references in TTOTC.

    H looks like a bridge. H=8, infinity, wise owl eyesOO, ee

    Forrest’s Mother’s name is “Lillie”
    Perhaps solutions need to consider Lillie Fenn over W.Marvin Fenn’s fishing holes.

    Perhaps the chest resides in a Romanesque alcove of a remote Cliff needing a battering ram to move rock at the opening.

    Historical Background:
    Queen Eleanor (Reign 1137-1204)
    Duchess of Aquitaine; Queen of France & England

    King Henry II (Reign 1154-1189)
    King of England, Ireland & Continental duchys

    After cross referencing this period of Romanesque history (Pantsgenet dynasty) with the chests details it’s my opinion it belonged to Queen Eleanor. The word Eleanor can be mined phonetically from the poem as well as Azure, and HRH Elizabeth.

    Perhaps it’s Lillie Fenn’s lineage. Or perhaps Forrest descended from King Henry II or William Marshal – the greatest knight.

    • IMO when he said The chest was perfect he was referring to it’s meeting all the specs for the job. Not an easy task considering the many variables that could be present in the next 1000 years

    • Maybe the chest is “perfect” for a simpler reason – it will not tarnish with age and would hold enough of the trinkets he planned to put into it. It’s also a bit on the heavy side.

      I won’t say the ornateness of it isn’t intriguing, just not important for finding it. If I find it, I will appreciate it, but I am not of the opinion at this point in my research to give it much credence as being needed in any way as a matter or way of finding it.

      • For those who may not have ever seen this, here’s a page from a book about allegorical art in France. This illustration is very much like the image on the chest and is called I believe “The Allegorical Siege on the Castle of Love”. I’m not sure when this was produced but its resemblance to the chest is striking. I wonder if Forrest ever saw this? 🙂

        • cjinca: I think you left off the link although I am familiar with the artwork you are referring to. I remember seeing an article in an archeology mag about that scene. It would be nice to see the chest or a better pic of it to really study the scene. The one you are referring to was used on caskets and other boxes from what I remember from the article. I wondered if it is the same scene or story on the chest. Interesting….

        • About a year ago that discussion appeared here with links to the photos…
          Forrest said at that time that he was quite aware of that story and the pics .

    • 42 building at that time were very prone to FIRE and so is the WOOD. we think he used it for the fire proofing or resistant qualities.

      • Hey all, I agree that bronze is an enduring fire safe container for Forrest’s trove.

        So why not design one and have it cast at his favorite foundry?

        Be honest with yourselves, he bought a $25,000 antique from a museum to hide this treasure. He loves detail antiquity and history.
        So why is that detailed antique Romanesque box perfect to throw in the rocks, brush or stream etc, – If it’s just about the metal protecting it.

        Go back and read f’s Viginettes about his priceless pieces he’s collected. Check out his stories in detail. It ain’t only about the bronze! Those who make it too simple dont understand much about Forrest IMO!

    • The ancestry of FF’s and Peggy’s as well, are simply intriguing! Must have spent a week or more researching.

      Between that, and spending a great amount of time * ‘in’ Cody, WY….. this gal needs a nap just about now.

      Fascinated ~

    • Here’s a little known fact about the Romanesque period. Some sculptures liked to have a bit of fun sculpting people from the “margins” of society, like jongleurs, or other lowly types. The things about these sculptures is that they were often viewed as grotesque because they were usually nude, and absolutely no body part was left unexposed. Some sculptures seem to flaunt their buttholes (sorry I couldn’t think of a more genteel term without losing the inherent humor in it all) to passers by.