The Nine Clues…….Part Fiftyfour


This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

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829 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…….Part Fiftyfour

    • I have no idea how to get this to go where I want it to. So oh well.

      Warm waters halt.

      If halt were to mean maimed or lame. Warm waters maimed could refer to a shark. Crazy thought but that would probably lead to sharkstooth in colorado.

      I saw a post today somewhere that talked about looking at the meaning of words in two dictionaries as well as looking at the word meek in the greek language. I have been thinking that maybe he is not saying what we think he is saying.


  1. Morning 42,

    Could be tough to follow this thread, as Dal closed comments on the old thread before I could respond – but, could Forrest have chosen the bronze chest simply because he knew it couldn’t be copied? In other words, it was also “perfect” because there were features on it or it was made in such a way as it could not be forged, so that some nefarious person could not say “I found it” and put forth a forgery. Yes, I may be simplistic in my reasoning for the chest being perfect for Forrest’s uses, this I concede. Others in other threads have put forth Ocaam’s Razor as a principle for helping anyone who is faced with two or more options for solving a problem. I like simple over complex, easy over difficult. So why did Forrest say the bronze chest was “perfect”? It’s all conjecture until Forrest himself delineates exactly why he said so. It might be that the finder will also realize why it was perfect and why Forrest chose it – perhaps that’s part of the surprise that goes with the prize.

    But I haven’t found it yet, so what do I know? 🙂

    • There may be something in the design of the chest that made it perfect for Forrest’s treasures and he probably wanted something bronze that was the right size for all the items he wanted to put into it. I suppose he could have had a chest designed just for him if he wanted to, but perhaps purchasing one was easier. We’ll probably never know until it’s found. 🙂

  2. IMO…
    Mindy and Amy, what happened? I don’t see you in any of the Autograph Party photos! We’re you out searching instead? Or were you just hiding with Indulgence? Guests turned the place into a spillway. Were they spilling into the room or spilling a drink (I saw both and heard another or two…?)? Wish you were both there.

    • Slurbs,
      I wish I could’ve been there, too. It just didn’t come together this time, but if there’s another event before the chest is found, I’ll be there.

      I heard it was a great time, and loved the pics! 🙂

  3. Slurbs

    🙂 Thank you. I wish I could have been there. So at least I had a Wish. Looks like it was a great turn out, and looks like Fun.
    Great pictures. I’m proud u got to attend. Lucky, Lucky, 🙂 was Forrest Quite? 🙂

      • Slurbs! It was great to meet you! Too bad you didn’t have Amy and mindy tucked under your arms! I failed to say in addition to the first night crew…already mentioned.. 🙂 Great to meet all of you, jeff Burch and titan, katya, Illinois ghost, waterhigh, boomergirl, tom, bill, doug, brooke, so many more, forgive me if I didn’t mention your name…I had a great time talking with all of you! And dal slipped out and I didn’t get to say bye…
        But it was fun, and thank you all so much!
        And slurbs,
        Forrest did seem quiet, but I’ve not met him nor been to one of his events before.
        Maybe he still didn’t feel 100%.

        • Looks to me like it was a teaser to sell more books – as this is an excerpt before the book was released. Why buy a book when the whole poem could be found on-line?

          • Jake, I am not a web-developer – don’t even write scripts or code elstways, but I know enough to know that if you do not have a good developer or administrator like Goofy working behind the scenes to keep a website “up to date”, that a lot of information goes “stale” on a lot of websites. In that sense, the information is like books on a library shelf, the information is still there, you just have to know where to go find it. The person looking up the info has to use discernment to ascertain if the information is the most up to date and/or accurate. This is sometimes tricky, as timestamps do not always tell the whole story. To complicate things, sometimes the more recent time stamped information is inacurate and older repositories are better. This I know to be true – as I work in the IT field.

            All that to say, old news is just that, old news. Sometimes it is helpful, sometimes it is not.

          • Where the information can be found years later?
            This is a good thought to why the Avenue of a poem may have been used. If fenn stated he was thinking 100, 1000, even 10,000 years down the road when developing clues to the location of the chest. The poem could out last most communication we have or had.

            Think of it this way. Humans have use stone to carve information on it, But limits that information to the populaces. Then animal skin, Yet that decays quickly.. then parchment, then metals, to paper, to digital.
            But there are two things that we most always remember, songs and poems. They are passed down from generation to generation even without the written version. Fenn said he chose the avenue of a poem to present the clues… he could have easily used the book and hid the clue in the stories… but stories change over time and lose information.

            A poem not only give the writer freedom of interpretation of words… but a poem could last the test of time just because we can recall it easily… even if the book is forgotten. I mean who here doesn’t have the poem memorized. Who here has the entire book memorized? Pictures will be forgotten, stories will change, The poem itself…

          • Jake, it is not surprising at all to expect an item like the chest to get “wet” even if it isn’t submerged in water like a creek or stream. Moisture collects in many ways, such as the condensation seen in the morning when dew covers items that have cooled over night. Condensation is found everywhere and occurs even in caves. Moisture from rain, melting snow, or from condensation can reach practically any item even if it is buried many feet below the surface. Moisture sometime even percolates up from below under the right conditions. I really wouldn’t expect the chest to stay in tact if it is submerged in a creek or stream. Silt alone would render it buried and the likelihood that the current would disperse its is too great. IMHO of course. Now, it might be close to a creek or stream…..

          • Very true Raven, I wish I could find out what date & time exactly when he made the statement – I know the TC is wet & look up some old weather records, but I guess that probably wouldn’t help much considering the vastness of the Rockies.
            Could have been just morning condensation.

          • Jake, the interview where he said that was posted on February 4th, 2015 on YouTube. Of course, this isn’t the time he said it, but the interview was likely recorded within 30 days prior to being published (Dal, do you have any specifics on this one?). The video’s called, “Searchers – New Mexico True Stories” put out by YouTube account “VisitNewMexico”. Not sure if I’m allowed to provide the YT link here, but you can find it pretty easily if you search.

          • jake i have email Mr. Fenn several times and he has answered our questions. we have found that if you are short, polite, and the question is not related to search. we asked about the ball of string. we thanked for our adventures. and couple more everyday type talks.

          • I am curious as to if we solve all 9 clues can we walk right to the chest, or will it be a few acres to search.

          • kenny it our case it the length and width of a canyon lol
            its only a few miles long and a few hundred feet wide it big enough

          • Jakefaulker i can not resist. Mr. Fenn in most likely at or near his Santa Fe home. That would be my guess

          • Well, WB, He could also be searching at San Lazaro today. I am not sure which town it is in. I hope to same day join him in exposing some real history facts.

          • Naught-
            The New Mexico True Stories video was filmed by New Mexico Tourism and the link to that is on the Media Coverage is a story in the New Mexican where Forrest claims that there are no clues in the Tourism video..
            So go here:
            Then scroll down about 20 items to the Tourism Video..
            Another two or so items down will get you to the New Mexican story where Forrest claims there are no clues in that video..

        • wait.. I thought there were more than 9 clues? didn’t he release some clues on national TV? or are those clues within the initial 9 clues from the poem/book?

          • Hammertime –

            Here is my take on a clue – an actual clue moves you closer to the chest.

            A hint moves you closer to a clue.

            I, for one, don’t believe in clue counting until you are at the end of the solve – then you can count if you want to . In the beginning, I just think it is a waste of time.

            And that is just my humble opinion.

          • I think Fenn has given out way more than 13 clues. Sometimes when he talks in interviews, I think he words things in a way where he slips clues right past most. But, lets face it, all you need is the poem.

          • Well Hammer, the book calls them clues, the poem calls them hints. For preservation of any sanity I have left I decided to call all of them information …..Each searcher has to decide what is helpful and what is not.

            into I argued the point to Fenn that telling us where it’s not does in fact lead us to the treasure eventually. I know it’s not below 5,000 feet or above 10,200 feet, I know WWWH is not a dam, etc. By telling me where it is not reduces the search area therefore tells me where it is.

            Anyway, just my confused opinion.

          • Hammer, Jake, into

            And we’re back to the useless clue debate. after stating clue[s] or at the very least not correcting TV etc. calling them clues. Fenn later stated they were useless clues. I’ll also say, if a hint helps with an understand what a clue is… is that not a clue as well… because it get’s you closer to chest by guiding you to a clue?

            One can argue knowing it’s not in Nevada is a clue as it eliminates a place, so that automatically gets you a little closer to the chest, then Idaho gone, not an outhouse etc. clues? I ask, if they are clues, then they should they not be “usable” and “necessary” to solve the poem? We have been told we only need to solve the poem, and there are 9 clues within the poem.

            IMO the only thing we have been told is some of the searchers guesses/hunches are wrong… The chest is not in the mentioned states, it’s not in a graveyard. it’s not above 10,200′ or below 5000′ , not an outhouse etc. etc. Are they clues?? or simply telling us… Bad guessing.

            Believe what you like about clues or hints. Unless someone can explain how knowing those are “needed” to solve the poem… they are just helpful in my book.

          • Yes, a hint is a clue. They get you closer to finding the TC. What bothers me a little is that clues 10 thru 13 on his website are straight forward statements of elimination. The 9 clues in the poem I believe to be of placement or path of placement for lack of a better wording. The clues in his poem opposed to his website seem to be opposites in nature by design? Either way they are all clues!
            “Fenn later stated they were useless clues” Seeker, please send me a link to this statement that Fenn made if you have. Not that I don’t believe you but sometimes you have to see & hear it from your own eyes & ears. Did Fenn answer a question from interview stating what he would see if standing at the treasure?

          • I’m not sure this is a useless debate. Maybe we are not thinking like Fenn.

            Perhaps the way to think about it is this. We are looking for a needle in the haystack. If the hider says “its not that straw way over there on the right” (like saying it’s not a dam) then theorically he did eliminate 1 or 2 possibility out of millions but did that really narrow down where the needle is? IMO it did not move me closer to the needle. Now if the hider points to a specific spot in the stack and says “it’s over here somewhere” (a clue) then that is helpful and you have been moved closer eliminating millions of the other possible options.

            When he says “moves you closer to the TC” I think he means very close. In his mind (and mine) I think he is telling us the clues put you very near the spot not just eliminating half a dozen possiblilies out of millions. CLues are intended to put you within striking distance if you can solve them…IMO.

          • Jake, just curious how long have you’ve been researching the poem and chase? I know some folks are new to the chase and that is great… but the useless clues comment was equivalent to discovering the world is not flat in the chase community. OK maybe not that big of news, but dang close. If i find time i’ll go look… but i would suggest you do some more looking as well. you just may find things you would be surprised and very interested to read about.

            I’ll give you a time line that it was after fenn’s last clue on the Today show.

          • Seeker, I have only been researching the poem, this website, Fenn’s website, Youtube interviews & other info for only 2 months. I am well behind most of you here & appreciate what you all have given & have to offer. I have had a few trips to Wyoming searching for TC. My next trip is scheduled Oct 3rd to Bozeman then to W Yell for staging. I don’t want you to think I know it all because no one does, I just express my selfish self. Besides the TC may still be where Fenn placed it. I do not use IMO because I feel as though when someone is expressing themselves, then it is there opinion anyway. We do not need to be so PC. I think your getting me confused with Hammer.
            So Hammer, “If the hider says “its not that straw way over there on the right” (like saying it’s not a dam) then theorically he did eliminate 1 or 2 possibility out of millions but did that really narrow down where the needle is? IMO it did not”

            I think your math is wrong Hammer.
            Most of my problems I have solved in life require process of elimination first.
            Whenever you eliminate a possibility, you increase your odds of solving.

          • Anyway, I think the key to solving any problem is process of elimination first. I tend to have confidence in a great many searchers areas they have covered but could bite me in the but if they did not search thoroughly. There are so many people in the chase right now with boots on the ground, someone is going to find TC within the next year if someone didn’t find it already & didn’t make it public or let Fenn know. I think Fenn wants the TC to be found soon & knows it will be. Put yourself in his boots & think about the consequences of someone getting killed or hurt searching for TC. I am sure there have been some hurt in some way or another although most have enjoyed there search. He has said he will not be giving any more clues because he knows searchers are very close.

          • Jake, folks have been saying exactly what you said for years; and the chest is still out there.

            The same old argument about him wanting it found, and the same old guilt trip about someone getting hurt or killed. Yada Yada Yada

            And my response every time is: Each searcher is responsible for his or her actions not Fenn.

            If you’re gonna be stupid, you gotta be tough.

          • Goofy, I believe the TC is still out there as well, otherwise I would not have booked a trip to W Yellowstone. Who or what could possibly remove the chest? Who, would say something to someone at some time & the beans would be spilled, that who would be to proud to keep secret. What, would be the elements, but I doubt that considering the TC weighs 42 pounds & even a fast flowing river in spring would not disturb it. Who knows, maybe the government has found it & you wouldn’t hear a peep about it. There is also the aliens that need precious metals, diamonds, etc that they could easily have it as well. OK maybe I am crazy.

            Why is Fenn not giving any more clues? I would like your take on this.

            Yes, people do stupid things for $$$ not caring or wondering about the consequences.

          • Jake I’m not sure I understand some of your questions.

            In my opinion the reason he’s not giving out any more clues is because some folks are close……Then again after he said he wasn’t giving out any more clues he gave out another clue……So there may be more.

            A fast flowing stream could move that chest like bowling ball going down a bowling lane. That’s not an opinion; that is fact. Check into the recent floods on the Front Range.

            I don’t understand your question about spilling the beans but I do know about aliens, the crazy hiker babe told me all about them.

            Bottom line, anything could be. If you don’t think it’s there then go hunt for something more profitable like Bigfoot…….I been trying to talk Dal into that for years. 🙂

          • Another clue may be a good thing if it comes. It might curtail someones solve including mine & force people to search elsewhere. I would like another clue for that reason.

            All depending where the TC is in a river or stream could be all the difference as to whether or not the current would influence the movement of the TC. I think TC is somewhat covered by river rock in a smooth flowing bend of a river where the tidal surge from floods & spring runoff would not budge it much.

            As far as spilling the beans…. I don’t think the finder of TC could keep it secret for long & the person they tell will tell more people. Only a very small few can take a secret to there grave.

            That crazy hiker babe is, well, CRAZY! She doesn’t know what she is talking about unless it’s about aliens & Bigfoot.

          • Jake –

            You are not listening to what Goofy said –

            And now I know you have never been in or seen a flood……………

            Floods can move houses – so what do you think it would do to that chest.

            Forrest knows that first and foremost.

            He quite simply would not place the TC in any kind of a flood zone. It wouldn’t even be found in 2000 yrs that way.

            So if you really want to find the TC – and don’t change your thinking – have a happy vacation.


          • Thank you into,
            I have been studying USGS & NOAA data for my river & surrounding creeks & rivers. There are floods there now & then but measured discharge flow is not indicative to the type of floods you are talking about although with my luck when I go there could be the flood of the century.

          • Your welcome Jake –

            This is a very important consideration for all searchers – as to get one closer to the actual treasure spot – and why wouldn’t you want to be there.

            My Grandfather owned some hot springs once – and there was a train trestle at the beginning of the canyon. It rained for many days and debris had backed up against the trestle – it formed a type of lake behind it and when it broke lose – a wall of water came thru 12 feet high. Stuff happens. The spot I am looking in did indeed have a 100 yr. flood. Water is such a powerful force. I do believe the chest is close to water – but absolutely not in any danger from flooding.

            Have a great hunt…………..

          • into, You have to use good judgement whenever near or in water. I have scuba dived in many of cold waters in New England. I have done my homework but there is always a few questions on the test you are not prepared for. That’s where imagination, experience, judgement & uncommon sense come together. I think it’s better to not find TC & be healthy & alive than to use poor judgement & hurt or kill yourself. The area I will be searching tends to flood during the spring from the snow melt. There has been very minor increase in discharge in Sept. & Oct. in fact this part of the river is at it’s lowest discharge rate in many years at this time.
            But you know Mother Nature always tends to do whatever she wants.

          • Hi Jake — playing catch-up on all your posts (and the replies) in the last 2 days. Initial comment (IMHO): the chest is not under water, for a thousand good reasons. So your searches will be more efficient if you drop that idea.

          • Zap, You need to give me your best 5 reasons why you think the chest is not under water. I believe Fenn said the TC is wet, please someone correct me if I am wrong so I don’t waste time holding my breathe & freezing my but off.

          • (raising hand)
            I have a couple reasons Jake.
            1. When he said the chest is wet it was a wet time of year. In winter and spring the chest could be exposed to rain and snow causing it to be wet. It could also be near a waterfall causing it to catch spray even a good, safe distance away.
            2. Forrest has said the chest is unlocked and the key is inside. It seems unlikely that he would want it exposed to the forces of moving water which could spill everything. Perhaps the chest could be in a lake or pond since that water is still but even a small stream can undermine and move large boulders in a short flood event…like mountains often have in spring.
            3. Although Forrest took precautions with his biography to keep it dry (he put it in an olive jar and sealed the top with wax) his method would likely not stand up to a hundred years of complete immersion in water but it would very likely stand up to hundreds of years of occasional dampness and even occasional wetness.

            Those are my three best arguments but let me say that I do think it is very near water and just because I don’t think it’s in water I still go over to the nearby stream and look…
            I may have ruled out a stream in my mind but that doesn’t mean I am so cocksure in what I believe that I would not take a few extra minutes to check out the stream…I may be slow but I’m not stupid.

          • OK, Thanks Dal, now that you have put your hand down I can see you have a pretty good poker hand. The 3 cards you have shown maybe give you a straight flush but I’ll have to downgrade your hand seeing you still go over to the nearby stream and look…
            You don’t appear to be bluffing, you speak from the heart with lot’s of experience’s to back it up.
            My hand is pretty good as well, I have a couple of Aces & a King & receive 2 more cards please.
            What bothers me about the Olive Jar is if it has a tin lid, then of course it would not last, but I think the lid is glass of the bail lid type. Maybe there is a pic of the Olive Jar somewhere.
            As for the river it may be residing, I think the flow is fairly gentle 3/4 of year, then spring & early summer it could get a little sketchy. I would think if Fenn did put it in a river, stream etc… he would place the back (hinged) towards up stream where the lid does not have much of a chance to open.
            I will not discount anything you have said but I am a stubborn SOB & will still search this area first. I will be there for a week so I have other areas to fall back on like maybe around Fairy Falls. Fenn mentions about that great learning experience something about fairies dancing around a rock from his excerpt.

            Anyway there is at least one more joker in the deck.
            Will need to finish this hand at some point.

          • jake faulker we dont have the link. i not good at finding them but i believe Mr. f said he sealed the olive jar with wax.

          • Hi Jake — I don’t know if I can give you 5 unique reasons why I don’t think Indulgence is underwater, but really only one good reason is needed: it would be reckless. The chest is unlocked; if it topples, game over. It’s hard enough to secret a chest on “dry” land and have it last for centuries. Deliberately submerging it would ruin the inside of the chest in short order: it is NOT water-tight. He paid a small fortune for that thing: irrespective of the risk to the contents, why would he knowingly ruin an 800-year-old piece of art? Fenn has far greater respect than that.

            So the better question is what are your 5 reasons for submerging the chest that outweigh the extreme negatives?

  4. Enjoy your weekend all. Sorry that I was unable to travel to Santa Fe and meet every one. You all look so normal without your blog personas on!

    Hearty congratulations to you Forrest! I’ll bet your friend Eric Sloane is smiling from above;-)

  5. I think when it says There will be no paddle up your creek that means do not go up, because only heavy loads and water high lye ahead so if you’ve been wise and found the blaze look quickly down so is that down the creek or directly down. Don’t forget about the wood. 🙂

    • If I were to visualize that, I am going down the canyon along the creek. I come to a waterfall. There is heavy loads of boulders and wood. The blaze is there, and I look quickly down over the edge. I can’t be meek to go out there and look. It takes some bravery, but an eighty year old man can do it. In fact many people and searchers may have done it. But they didn’t recognize the blaze. They were standing less than 500 feet from the treasure which is at the bottom of the falls.
      That’s the way I see it.

    • Amy,
      You wrote, “… There will be no paddle up your creek that means do not go up, because only heavy loads and water high lye ahead…”.

      Forrest has said, ” There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order….” at ~27:00 minute mark of this link:

      Seemingly relevant definitions for ‘consecutive’:
      1. following one another in uninterrupted succession or order; successive: six consecutive numbers, such as 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.
      2. marked by logical sequence.

      If using the first definition, ‘no paddle up your creek’ is FOLLOWED by ‘heavy loads and water high’. However, if using the second definition and considering a ‘logical sequence’, a searcher might conclude “there WILL BE no paddle up your creek” (being future-tense) actually FOLLOWS ‘heavy loads and water high’. These two phrases, and their interpretaions, have a very significant impact, IMO, on the poem’s path; thus, the appropriate interpretation is as critical here as it is for any of the poem’s important words and/or phrases. One other oddity about this stanza if using ‘logical sequence’ is, IMO, “The end is ever drawing nigh;” and its interpretation and usage, but this is dragging on, so… All of this is just my opinion and, since I don’t have the TC, the FWIW value is exactly zero.

      Anywho, just one of those rare thoughts that suddenly take wing in that great void between my ears.

  6. Here’s a thought I just had on my way to dreamland last night. Was pondering this exchange in particular:
    Q: Did the same 9 clues exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will they still exist in 100 years and 1000 years? “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia.”

    The first thing that struck me was the phrase “MOST of the places”. Does that mean that a few of the places the clues refer to did not exist when Forrest was kid? In my opinion that confirms we aren’t looking just for mountains and streams. There must be one or a few man made objects along the way, and made within the last 70 years or so.

    The second thing that got my cogs spinning was the “the clues did not exist”.
    My opinion is that this could mean that no one that Forrest knows of had ever referred to the place the clue refers to as the clue….if that makes any sense.
    Everything is a metaphor or special name Forrest came up with.
    Let’s use “home of Brown” as an example: many people think it’s a house that someone named Brown lived in. But if the phrase “home of Brown” was not a phrase anyone ever used in relation to the place until Forrest came up with his clue how can it be literally Brown’s house?
    If you don’t think this is completely silly, the implications can become scary. Even the most simple seeming clues can become more complicated than originally presumed. Is canyon down even in an actual canyon? *screams internally*

    • Springer42,

      The clues didn’t exist because FF did think or make up a clue till 1988 and beyond. So no one else could refer to them has a clue at all.
      While it is Possible that a place could refer to a man made object. I personally would be diligent about using one as a clue before a natural event that change the appearance of a place. One place is Earthquake lake that was not around when FF was a kid. I’m sure there are many other place that fit the bill as well. Man made just gives me pause… but not out of the running.

      Another thought is the words used in the poem such as canyon down as you said, Is canyon down even in an actual canyon… The problem maybe not the word, but the definition. How can you interpret what fenn means by the definition’s description.
      Creek is a narrow passage by definition… I could argue a canyon could be as well, on a larger scale. That has been the problem when I read the poem… What scale are the readers using to see the clues? We ave been told we need to see the “big picture” so where does that leave us?

      We truly don’t know the size of the area we need to understand the clues, all we do know is the TC is located in a tiny spot of one of the four states. The clues or place we just don’t know. but that may just be the difficult part.

      • I agree there can also be non man-made objects that came into existence since Fenn was a kid. I guess I was thinking in terms of averages; a lot more things have been built by human hands than have been created by acts of nature in the past 60 or 70 years.

        • Springer42,

          So how many ants were born in the last 70 years? Numerically speaking, just that one phylum/species created by acts of nature far outnumber all things built by men in the same amount of time. “Acts of nature” is a really big term.

          Just sayin’

          I think I know what you meant, please correct me if I am wrong.

          I think you meant to imply that for the most part, men’s activities on the planet are more numerous than the large cataclysmic events that occur in a person’s lifetime. I concur.

        • Although this website has helped my solve allot but for every answer, there seems to be offspring of new questions. Sure keeps me going.

          I once thought that WWWH was the Buffalo Bill Reservoir by looking at this NOAA Thermal Springs Viewer :
          You can see there were a few warm springs below the reservoir at one time now covered by a few hundred feet of water. I thought the pressure from the water above would halt those springs. Even found the home of Brown which has to be one of more difficult clues. When I went to Cody to search I realized the treasure was not in Colter’s Hell. I don’t think anyone would want to die there.
          PS: The NOAA Thermal Spring Viewer is not completely accurate.

        • Sure, and I’m not downing your thoughts. In fact when fenn answered, is the blaze a single object with ” In a word, yes” Did he mean the word blaze or object? I will also ask, can there be more than one objects that a make up a single one?
          Even more perplexing can places make up an object. If you have three Mountain Peaks and use them to triangulate a position on a map did you just create an object. The triangle being used to help solve the location. So can object and blaze work together by their different meaning… sure they can and yet still have separation in actual meanings from a dictionary.

          This is the difficult part, of not only attempting to understand fenns answers to Q&A’s, but seems to me it relates to the poem the same way. If I said, a person has “smarts” it mean intelligence. If I said, a getting hit by a whip “smarts”, it means pain. If I said, a person is as smart as a whip… Both meanings come into play.

          I read the poem the same way… not a attempting to single out one meaning, such as canyon meaning a canyon only. But all meanings of how they work in the poem as a whole.

          Example: “Keep my secret where” and how it relates to “Begin it where” are they the same place? is the word “warm” just temperature? or can warm indicate being “close”, and if so, does the poem say his “secret where” is “where to begin” and the where {place} that is…is close to the chest indicated by warm as being close to.

          And should this line of thinking be correct, can “your efforts be worth the cold” not only mean temperature, but all those failed searches or attempts to solve the poem prior are, cold as in “not close”
          Cold; temperature, or cold to the touch as in metal.
          Cold: as in a seeker.
          Cold; as in elevation.
          Cold; as in attitude or lack of dedication.
          Cold; as in seasons.
          etc. Can all those meanings fall into play to understand the poem as whole… the “big picture”

          This line of thinking may explain, why other searchers, all went by the chest. they were looking for a single meaning to what they believed was the next clue.

          Take it for what it’s worth…

          • Pete,

            Sure will… it will be later tonight.
            Maybe you can straighten me out, cuz I have no clue of what I’m saying. lol

          • Seeker…How about cold = lonely…the only one of many…singled out???…

            The need for “If you are brave…? 🙂

          • Maybe even cold as in the night or cold as in at rest. Do you think effort as in labor and cold as in at rest could be antonynms of each other and yet have equal value?

          • Cloudcover, just thinking about that today. I am finding it has to maybe to do with the time of day. The sun drove me crazy today – wrong time of day and wrong angle of light. That means next time I have to go when it is colder out. I wonder if that is something I missed.

          • cloudcover1,
            I just saw your post, sorry for being late on the get go.
            By definition yes.

            In the poem, the words i see mean the same thing and exact opposites.

            Warm and cold are best examples of this.
            Both mean temperature, yet exact opposites in the same meaning. I call them indicators as the have different meanings to me then just the common usage of the text.

            When I look at them as such, other parts of the poem seem to line up, but slightly different then just a place or a direction, but have a new meaning or reading.

            Yet other meanings of the same word still come into play. Warm as in temperature and as in close. In the case of WWWH it means liquid as one of the states of waters…and close as in a seeker. I don’t see words in the poem to mean Just one thing or meaning. that is what the, difficult but not impossible may mean.

          • Hey Sam,
            When’s coffee? it’s been awhile. if you have time we should get together and talk smack about all the crazy searche…I mean discuss the poem and clues.

    • Springer, I thought the same thing when I read this. Some of the clues must reference man made objects or places. I think you have something really good here. Maybe the blaze?

      • swwot, its funny but every time I see your screen name – I see it backwards. Perhaps because it matches our solution:
        “to ww ‘s”. to the ww’s…

        Boots on the ground for us was at a landform which looked like mirrored ww’s
        which matches W.M.Fenn Sr & Jr.

        The hillside was marred by a fire long ago.
        “But tarry scant with marvel gaze.” worked down to the letter:

        Buttary scant with mar V el gaze was a butter yellow short butte marred left of a V canyon with an E/L burned into the ground. Yep, we sure did gaze in wonder.

        • Interestingly, our twin buttes look like a “heart of gold” or and end(butt) and geologically are the ceiling of caverns; which would make them the “vena cava” or hollow vein of a heart spoken of in ttotc related to cancer surgery. It would be a fabulous solve if we could find an entrance. Butt, wouldn’t have entered since the caverns are unmapped.

          Anyone who has toured Lewis and Clark caverns knows there are deadly drop offs into the abyss, so you stay behind the railings and ropes under penalty of death.

  7. Dal, it was fun looking through the searcher photos from the after party. You and your pretty wife Kathy look like photo journalists out of a movie! Did you meet on location?

    • Anna-
      I think you have mistaken me in the photos for some great looking young guy. I am the ancient treasure hunter in the blue checked shirt with little to no hair and that which I do have is whiter than a Perry Como record.

      • I recognize you Dal – but It was nice to see Kathy with you.
        Please don’t ever present her with an ice ax on her birthday! Lol

        • Great advice, Anna. Dal, if…by accident…you DO give your wife an ice ax for her birthday…you can quickly save face by informing her that it’s not an ice ax…but is, in fact, a NICE ax…a very nice ax. 🙂

  8. TO DONNA M:

    You made a comment on this thread yesterday before Dal closed it about how a fisherman told you that “not for the meek” meant that you had to get into the water. My granddaddy used to say this same expression whenever it was a particularly rough water fishing spot because Meek reels were very expensive in our area and they tended to break or freeze if you cast into a tree or rock. So his use of the expression was anywhere really overgrown or with rocks with many crevices to “catch” the bait. I am anxious to see if anyone else has heard any other uses of this expression from older family members! Be safe in your search!

      • Jake Faulker hi if i already answered this sorry for the repeat.
        we are fine we were never sick enough to be in any danger didn’t even need needle hydration. i would have been fine except i ate salty food. if you haven’t heard we are Christians and we don’t feel we will fine TC unless it’s God’s will. that said we don’t have any special advantage to fine the TC.
        the reason we think we failed at our last search was because i have NO FAITH that God had lead us to the right place. when we got home and looked at some of our pictures we almost beat ourselves with baseball bats. if it’s God trying to show us the way we ignored four or five signs He gave us. vn my son who doesn’t believe in God or TC was impressed that we might be on to something.
        we go back in oct if the weather is alright if not we cant go back till mid August of next year. after school starts.

        to anyone if i don’t use caps in your name it is not meant to be a slight against you i just hate using them. typing is a delexed nightmare

        • Good to hear your better & safe! I read your post yesterday about you getting sick & had a sad felling. I do believe in higher energy, powers, karma & much more intelligent life forms than us humans, but do not believe in a supreme being. I guess you could call me spiritual. There may be a god, there have been some unexplained coincidences in my life as well as others. I still say: Thank God! maybe my subconscious is trying to tell me something? Sounds like a great learning experience, sometimes the obvious comes after. I’ll be heading to West Yellowstone in early Oct. for another process of elimination trip. You cover south of the map I will cover the near north. Be safe & God Bless!

          • hey jake don feel sad about our trip to search. we had a blast looking for the TC. our grandson said it best when he saw the mountains and the wild areas. WOW!!!!!! “it’s like the Discovery channel but i am here”
            the fall i took in the steam then saying “she’s up” then i fail again has give us more laughs and fun story to tell. we live and we learn, but there was nothing sad about our trip except having to bring grandson home early and then us having to leave to come home from that beautiful place.

  9. DAL: I am sure this has already been asked and answered numerous times before but how can we purchase any of the photos that you have taken?

    • Nameless-
      If you mean the beautiful landscape images at the top…the header images…those are Goofy’s and you are right…those images are beautiful..
      I wonder too if they are for sale…
      Oh Goofy..can we buy photos from you???

      • I don’t think she’s talking about mine, I think she’s talking about all the great pics of your travels and the events.

        • you both are great picture takers and makes me drool thinking about what kind of camera you have and how expensive they are. hubby gives me a hard time about finding TC. he said all i want is a big camera and birding scope.

    • It will actually be from both Dal and Goofy then 😀 There is one or two that I would love to have blown up into poster size so I can frame it and hang them on the walls in the rooms my grandkids stay in when they visit. I hope to inspire their imaginations beyond Ipads and X-boxes.

  10. ??? WHAT the heck is Home of Brown??? … I don’t think it’s a “where” but more of a “what”
    The poem says put in below the Home of Brown, but when asked about HOB has Fenn ever said anything like “If I told you >>where<< you would walk right to it" ?

    As far as I remember, one of his comments was " well that's for you to find out" and the other "if I told you what it was, you would walk right…."

    • Everyone knows this. It’s below the home of Leroy Brown. The baddest man in the whole dang town. He’s from the South-side of Chicago, the meanest part of town.

      BTW – There is a SB where Forrest talks about Leroy and Skippy.

      The 42nd parallel runs through Chicago.

      Do I believe this – No. But I thought it was funny.

      Scott W.

      • Where does Toledo sit on the map? Imagine if it where just below the home of Brown. That would be amazing.


        Yeah – I’ve always been a line guy.

        Scott W.

  11. I feel like Alice in Wonderland, in the presence of the “Queen”, and i say “Hello”!
    The falls were awesome today, but no chest. I think I will use the clue of “heavy loads and water high”, and head back to an old spot where I found my 1940’s Grapette bottle, and search some more. I feel this is a wise decision and hope it “floats” true.
    “Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm.”~Winston Churchill~
    I will end up at the beginning of my journey, and see it for the first time!
    Be safe.
    £Peace £

    • Hi donna! Yes, I am familiar with failure to failure, BUT, each was a success in its own right. You can’t succeed without first a failure or few…:)

    • @DonnaM. I like your theory on ‘heavy loads’ being a fly fishing term…not to many folks mention this, I only stumbled across it once and can’t find it again in any fly fishing lingo or literature….hope you are taking pics to share on here when you return! For the record at this point in time I feel WWWH is clue #1. IMO –

  12. Jake, I was trying to follow your comments above with goofy and into. I got confused about spilled beans, aliens, and that crazy hiker babe. Could you elaborate please? Thx! 🙂

    • Jdiggins, I really like your poem:

      A dreamer
      A quiter
      he grieves
      and so tells his tales of woe.
      But he who
      what his dreaming
      Has no limit to where he may go.

      I was just throwing things out there. Spilled beans would refer to someone that found the treasure & couldn’t keep it a secret.

      Aliens? They don’t exist, or do they?
      Crazy hiker babe knows all about this.

      I think “There ‘ll be no paddle up your creek” refers to a creek, river or stream you cannot paddle up, because either it is dry, it’s not allowed, or it’s impossible.

      • Jake Faulker,
        I thank you for answering me.
        Though the hiker babe and aliens still is tugging at my memory, I do get the beans part.
        Did I mention my nickname is tooter? 😉
        Anyway, I truly appreciated you reposting my poem. It looks good in lights. 🙂
        You have good thoughts, Jake. Good luck to you! 🙂

        • Tooter,
          Is your tugging memory from your post comment yesterday or your past?

          Yesterday I was implying that there is the slight possibility that maybe the treasure was found & taken without Fenn’s or anybodies knowledge. I stated that aliens would need precious metals & maybe they sent one of there little shuttle pod orbs (for lack of better description) to pick up the treasure without anyone knowing. Now, I may think way outside the box & like a child at times but I never under estimate my fellow man & other life forms even if they may be from this planet or another planet in some far away galaxy or solar system. Anyway there are other forums for this conversation.

          I was just playing along with Goofy about the hiker babe. Maybe you should ask him about her?

  13. For those “poem purists” who believe the books are a waste of effort, I’m playing devils advocate and interjecting thoughts previsously posted by Chris Yates on

    This is from the book jacket of TTOTC…
    Unlock the clues that are scattered among these pages and you can go home with a bronze chest so full of gold and precious jewelry that it’s almost too heavy for one person to carry

    Chris Yates comments:

    this is a quote from FF that was a dare issued by him to all searchers out there. notice it says clues scattered across the pages, putting an emphasis on all clues contained in the book, and the poem is a part of that of course, but it is only one page of the book.

    i did a little research on this, and this has been there from since the book was first being printed. it wasn’t until this whole chase really started blowing up that you started to get statements from FF that were putting emphasis on the poem even to the extreme of saying, all you need is the poem, which is really painting a different picture then when this first started.

    there is a reason for this i think, as this thing got big, the number of searchers and people studying the book and poem became exponentially bigger thereby greatly increasing the chances of this puzzle being solved by someone, i think FF decided it was ok at this point to start carefully phrasing things a certain way to employ misdirection. the clues in the book are so critical, that if FF can say things that imply the opposite, without ever actually saying something false, he would do it.

    if i am right about this, and i think i am, he has been very successful in steering people in the wrong direction, believing something that isn’t true, it isn’t what he has actually ever said, and it contradicts other things that have been made so clear when you examine everything he has communicated as a whole. of course he hasnt contradicted himself, but he has gotten people to take a contradictory meaning. i see a lot of people here on this blog who have fallen for this, and it effectively removes you from having a realistic chance of solving this puzzle if you do.” C.Yates

      • Jake, thank you for the corrections.
        I did mean and simply forgot the ”

        Chris Yates is greatly missed here by those who remember him – a great logician with a photographic memory. He could pull exact thread locations for past info from memory or his research.

    • Anna, if you think Fenn is lying (misdirecting as you put it) there is no reason to be here or looking for the treasure; because in that case he could be lying about anything/everything. He has made several statements regarding yours and Chris Yates conspiracy theories. If you have done any research you would know this; if you know this then you are simply choosing to ignore those statements.

      If you want to follow a frustrated searcher’s conspiracy theories because he can’t figure out the poem good luck to you, but don’t bother us with this nonsense.

      • Goofy, you are taking the same approach with Anna that you took with me, she is not accusing him of lying. I think she is simply stating that information needs reconciled. We have two sets of information that apparently contradict and I agree with her the poem purists would do well to listen to other statements made by Fenn in which he said read the poem then go back and read the book read the poem and then the book. This whole thing brings up another point which I’ve been wanting to get off my chest … You know goofy you remind me of the Gestapo “thought police” I really think you’re overstepping your bounds as a moderator IN MY OPINION!

        • Cat, anna wrote/quoted:

          if i am right about this, and i think i am, he has been very successful in steering people in the wrong direction, believing something that isn’t true,

          She is saying Fenn is not being truthful and misdirecting people. In other words he is lying. If you believe he is lying there is no need to be here. There are other blogs where you can waste your time talking about conspiracy theories all you want. Or you can start your own Fenn bashing blog if you don’t like those.

          This blog is for those that believe the chest is there and are actively trying to find it. Don’t waste our time with conspiracy theories. As far as your Gestapo comment you are free to go someplace else if you don’t like the way this blog is run.

          • Does every one here believe everything they read?

            Do you believe everything you read in Forrest’s book – ?

            He told us in the book – 85 % is true.

            What about what he says – is that also 85% true? I for sure don’t know……

            So – I happen to believe there are clues in the book and clues in the poem. If others don’t – I don’t care.

            The one thing I really respect about Forrest Fenn – is that he placed no rules on this hunt. Other treasure placers have done that. I thank you Forrest.

            Treasure hunting is one of the few things left in this country that is not regulated – yet. Dang, I hope no politicians are reading this.

            I really didn’t hear any conspiracy theories in what anna or chris said – and am glad they had a right to say it.

          • There is a middle ground here in this debate: Fenn is not lying, but we need to read or listen to carefully what he says. He has apparently contradicted himself many times, or has he? For instance, I don’t ever recall him saying that all you need is the poem. I could be wrong, but what I remember his saying is that everything you need is in the poem. Those are only slightly different statements, but perhaps different in an important way.

            Looking for apparent inconsistencies and contradictions is not the same thing as calling Fenn a liar. What it really is, is looking for ways to figure out the clues.

            I, for one, don’t believe that the man spent 15 years writing a poem which is so general and imprecise that it could fit a thousand different places and will ultimately lead the lucky person that just happens to choose the correct starting location to the treasure. That sounds near to a lottery, and he has very clearly stated that he did not want that. I think this thing is way more tricky than it appears, and for that reason I think there is a lot of merit to what Chris Yates, anna and Cat cut have offered here.

            We should all take to heart something Dal said a LONG time ago: Forrest is the master of making you believe something he never said.

          • Spoon, I agree totally!

            You said “Looking for apparent inconsistencies and contradictions is not the same thing as calling Fenn a liar. What it really is, is looking for ways to figure out the clues.”

            Fenn said himself, in one of his interview, that he made mistakes on purpose in the chapter on literature. (Paraphrased) and was surprised no one had mentioned it.

            I personally don’t think the 85% of what he says or writes that is true in his stories is what we need to pay attention to. It is the 15% (aberrations) that are important. IMO

          • Jake, go back and listen to the early interviews with Forrest. He is the one who said he purposely put the mis-information into the book. I did not call him a liar.

      • Anna, as soon as I started reading your post, I knew Goofy’s Lie Meter Alarm was about to squawk. I totally agree with you…. And I am not calling Fenn a liar, and neither are you.

        Goofy, why are you so arched about disqualifying the book? Your gotcha “liar” accusations are phony entrapment arguments; they hinder discourse and are hurtful. Please explain why Fenn puts in writing on the book jacket and page 133 that there are clues in the book. Are you calling Fenn a liar?

        • OS, You said…
          “Goofy, why are you so arched about disqualifying the book?”

          Goofy is a big boy and can talk for himself… but your statement is off kilter… I have not seen anywhere, were Goofy advocated the book or the poem. Just simple comments about other searchers comment. You may want to rethink your statement.

          I on the other hand have leaned towards clues only in the poem. In after the fact comments and in the book… that is the one thing fenn has never change.
          In the book: the poem contains 9 clues… precisely to the chest.
          After the fact comments: all you need is the poem.

          The problem here is not about clues at all… it is about some wanting to say there line of think is a fact and fenn is misleading.

          Maybe Anna would be kind enough to explain exactly what she meant… in her post.

        • OS, I have no idea what you are talking about……I’m not disqualifying the book. Fenn wrote:

          All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f

          He has also said to read the poem and then reread the book etc. etc. if you want to find the hints.

          If you want to find clues/hints in the book, or the scrapbooks, or the tile in his bathroom, or anything else he has said/written that is fine with me. Personally I use my Deluxe Wee Gee Board mouse pad for insights.

          If after doing the research on everything he has said/written you think he is misleading, or lying about the treasure that is your choice. There are those that think the whole thing is bogus, which is also fine. But there is no reason for them to be here.

          • Goofy, I have cringed on multiple occasions when you have challenged posters with the charge “Are you calling Fenn a liar?” That’s more an assault than a question. This is a game and there are inconsistencies. This is not criminal court and there are no blood stains on the wall, no one needs to be pinned as ‘calling Mr. Fenn a liar’.

            IMO of course …. I think I may change my name from OS to IMO. Maybe we all should.

          • OS on each occasion, as I did with anna, I pointed out where they said Fenn is not telling the truth, misdirecting, etc. etc. If one thinks Fenn is lying or misdirecting searchers there is no need to search or be involved with the chase in my opinion. But without a doubt they won’t be here. That is a waste of our time.

            If someone wants to discuss what Fenn meant when he said something that’s fine. Just a couple recent examples are the New Mexico tourism video, and Mr. Briggs’ solution. Quite a dust up after those. Lots of theories about what he meant, at times he has come back and “clarified” one of his statements.

            If you want to think he said Briggs has it figured out by all means buy Briggs’ book and get out your decoder ring. You can express and justify your opinion all you want. There will, without a doubt, be someone here that will strongly disagree with you and express their opinion. This is fine, actually it’s good; kicking ideas around is what we are here for.

            But if you think Fenn is telling a lie or misleading searchers with his statement to Briggs that is fine. If Fenn is lying or misleading (the same thing) about that, then he could be lying or misleading about anything, including the chest even being out there. Once you cross that line I would recommend you stop searching and do something else. You will without a doubt be done commenting here.

          • Goofy – I tried finding a Delux Wee Gee Board mouse pad, but couldn’t. Are you referring to the ouija board mouse pad?

            If so, I must say that this thing has a mind of its own. the cool thing is the voice recognition properties. I ask it, “where is the canyon down”, and it moves on its own clicking and downloading content until the wee hours of the night.

            The bummer part about it is I have to keep my hand on it for it to work.

            Scott W

      • Come now Goofy – calm down. By now you know I’m not smart enough to thrown down a conspiracy theory. (Although Yates was.)

        IMO It’s simply worth noting and comparing FORREST’s own words on the inside book flap regarding the importance of hints inside his book with a current of thought expressed by searchers.

        IMO There’s a noticeable trend to discount f’s memoirs as helpful in solving the poem. Forrest also mentioned its advantageous to plays the fox among hounds
        In ttotc (paraphrased)

        There, I just sold a few more copies of TTOTC to those on the fence about it’s importance.

        (Now, let’s wag tails as friends)

        • Anna, as I just said to OS I don’t care where you get your hints/clues from. The ebb and flow of what folks think are clues/hints change constantly. Mindy thinks if you burn the book the solution will be revealed…. Perhaps she made a deal with Fenn to sell more books. Now there’s a conspiracy theory for you.

          Discussing Fenn’s comments, writings, interviews, books, etc. and expressing your opinion is what this blog is about.

          If after researching everything you think Fenn is lying or misdirecting searchers that is fine; but you will be gone from here.

          • Goofy,
            For the record, I believe Forrest when he says there’s a treasure out there waiting for the person who can figure out the poem. I own TTOTC, and I’ve read it cover to cover a few hundred times over the past several years since I began searching. I’ve failed to find the TC on more than a handful of searches, but less than a few. I’ve also read/watched/listened to Forrest on the many occasions he’s provided post-book ‘information’. I’ve recently commented here my views on using the ‘information’ put forth by Forrest in the form of the poem, TTOTC, and post-book, and when it comes to interpretating the poem, I suppose I fall into the ‘poem purist’ camp, but I utilize the book and post-book comments to gain a better understanding of Forrest and how he Looks, Sees, and thinks. Now, this is the reason I’m commenting…

            You wrote [uppercase emphasis added]:
            “Discussing Fenn’s comments, writings, interviews, books, etc. and EXPRESSING YOUR OPINION IS WHAT THIS BLOG IS ABOUT.

            If after researching everything YOU THINK Fenn is lying or misdirecting searchers that is fine; but YOU WILL BE GONE FROM HERE.”

            I hope you’re getting a good chuckle, as I did, at the diametric absurdity contained within your statements.

            I’ve enjoyed visiting this site and reading about other searchers’ adventures, ideas, and interpretations, but the censorship mentality is, for me, becoming an irritant and possibly a deterrent, and the seed of doubt has been planted that I’m willing to tolerate this site’s continued use of censorship.

            As Americans, all should know about The Constitution and realize there is a movement afoot that is intent on great change or its ultimate destruction. The Constitution has proven its wisdom and durability over time, and gives Americans specific rights that are inherent, critical, and necessary for a society to be, and remain, free. The propensity for this site to censor commenters contributes to the ‘brainwashing’ of Americans that those rights are not guaranteed and can be redacted as needed, that the rights exist only as long as you agree with and conform to ‘a greater good that, in the end, best serves the people.’ This seems to be the mantra of liberals and progressives everywhere, but I’m not labeling you or any other individual. The framers surely have been tossing and turning in their graves for some time now.

            I write this with full respect and admiration for what you and Dal are doing and have done with this site, censorship excepted of course, and my comments are not in any way directed at Forrest or The Chase, in which my pursuit will continue.

            Censorhip is a serious issue as is any encroachment on the rights of a free society, and many of those rights are now under constant attack. Anyone who enjoys being free and having choices should, IMO, realize that freedom in our society is at risk of death by ten thousand cuts, and this site’s use of censorship is simply another small cut.

            ‘If you build it, they will come’ may be true, but it’s what you do with it after it’s built that keeps them coming back.

            I apologize for the long-winded narrative. My mind tends to wander, and I love it when that happens.

          • Hey Joe,

            I understand you were posting a comment directly to Goofy… Yet If you don’t mind, I liked to chime in here. I for one hold the Constitution close to heart, and believe are for fathers very intelligent people who took great pains in writing it.

            Freedom of speech is very important, Yet yelling fire in a crowded theater is not freedom of speech. I find the context of your post a little strange as you have forgotten one simple point… this is a personal blog… yet open to anyone who wants to comment, still a personal blog and not too different to someone inviting 10,000 people to a pool party.

            I won’t speak Dal or Goofy, but we have been told some control of some opinions, and out burst [ for lack of a better term ] of lies and misleading and falsehoods are not in good spirit of the conversations and will not be tolerated. It’s Dal’s house and Dal’s rules… this is not Facebook, Twitter, or angry birds… I think some forget that.

            Maybe folks need to rethink why they come here in the first place. Of course that is just my personal view.

          • HA! I’ve never been called one of those before. Well Joe, you can start a blog or forum or newspaper, etc. and say anything you like, at least for now. I agree there are those trying to shut down opposing viewpoints in this country. Very dangerous times indeed.

            But we don’t allow political arguments, or religious arguments; we don’t even allow discussions about monster trucks or camera gear, two things near and dear to my heart.

            Actually, in our attempt to stay on topic we are very restrictive in what is allowed.

            Anyway, if after doing the research you decide Fenn is spinning a big lie misdirecting searchers and the whole thing is a hoax and choose not to participate that is fine. If you want to start a Fenn bashing blog it is certainly your right to do so.

            But for those of us “believers” trying to find the chest the naysayers and disgruntled searchers that are now positive it is a hoax because it is not where they say it should be are a waste of our time.

          • thank you goofy that was well said. like we tell my son if you dont believe thats fine you are welcomed to your ideas. JUST like we are welcomed to our ideas because we do BELIEVE. you go your way and we will go our way straight to the TC we hope.

          • It is funny to me that when folks feel that someone is silencing them or others by telling them to refrain from making certain kinds of speech, the first thing they do is squeal that their First amendment rights under the constitution are being violated. Folks, I know education in this country is lacking so I’ll try and be as clear as I can be in this little civic lesson. The First amendment expressly addresses what Congress (and other governmental entities as expanded through the 14th amendment) can or can not do–it has absolutely no application to speech conducted on this website any more than it applies to what you say in my home. If Dal wants to set perimeters on the speech on this site, there is absolutely nothing in the constitution that prohibits or restricts his right to do so. Invoking the First amendment is silly in this context and reflects a complete ignorance of what the constitution does and does not do. If anyone is threatening our “rights” it not being done by “them” but by our own poor understanding of what are rights are and when they are under siege.

            Frankly, I am glad Dal and Goofy keep a short leash on a lot of comments. I certainly would have left this site a long time age if they didn’t because it would be swimming in religious zealotry, insane conspiracy theories, and a flood of comments from arrogant folks who feel that having an opinion is the same or the equivalent of making up their own “facts”. People do not have any more “First Amendment Rights” here than they do in speaking in my home or in the New York Times. I’m sorry that some feel constrained by the rules here–your best bet is to start your own blog and then you will “be free” to spew away with impunity.

          • raven that noise you hear off in the distance is APPLAUDS from all (most) of the bloggers. please take a bow.

          • Agreed. It takes structure to maintain a home. I’m pretty sure the grass in my backyard feel their 1st amendment rights are being violated every time I run a mower back there.

          • i think its the level of reaction to comments and jumping to conclusions. As well as the lack of disclosure on what is contained in the pictures upfront. If disclosure was done, then it would have saved us time.

          • Rose, the elusive disclaimer you desire is impossible to create in my opinion. To me and most I think, the post is obviously another contest created by Fenn; the hat contest. Like the cutest dog contest he came up with. He is simply having fun with us.

            If folks want to dream up clues nothing will stop them. Just because Dal edited the photo, Fenn approved it, so it has to be a clue.

            I’ve had a few folks email me claiming they had it all figured out. The pictures in the header show all of the clues and chest’s location. It’s been right in front of everyone all along……

            I responded telling them those are my photos and Fenn had nothing to do with them. They immediately told me I work for Fenn and placed those there at Fenn’s direction; I wasn’t fooling them one bit. And did I actually think folks would believe a computer programmer would just fall from the sky and revamp Dal’s blog. What kind of fools do I take people for.

            Another fellow thought the same thing about the header pictures only he knew beyond any doubt I was actually Fenn. The dog in my avatar was one of my (Fenn’s) dogs and he could prove it….

            I could go on and on with conspiracy theorists that have it all figured out. So Rose the disclaimer you want would not make one bit of difference if someone wants to make something a clue…..

      • I’m with Goofy here, don’t know what that says about me but I don’t think Fenn misleads. I think we mislead ourselves by being in the wrong place with the right clues. And maybe relying on blog interpretations of clues instead of relying on our own. Psychology 101, 3 eyewitnesses see an accident in 3 different ways. But who am I but just someone who has a very small opinion.

        • keep in mind this personal blog site is free too, notice no side banners or ads……no room to whine and there ain’t no cheese….IMO

    • Kids,open your workbooks to page five please.Life is a game of poker.In poker bluffing is not only allowed, it’s appreciated.It is up to the player to decide what is useful and non useful information.I sense a little frustration in your post, anna…Bummer…*turns up radio; queen/another one bites the dust.

      • Does she have a telL card? I’m not sure. I recall F saying the blaze was winking back @ ‘her’. She of course would be dig ing gypsy. Good day Fins.

      • That’s right fins up! This is one expensive, exceptional game of poker and fenn holds all the chips and is most likely great at bluffing.

        Bluffing is EXPECTED in a game of poker is different than calling a person a liar.

        Please read opening poem for TTOTC…

        “Life is a game of Poker…” FF

    • Anna,
      For years there have been some very intelligent people in the chase and a great numbers of discussions about clues vs. hints, what is what, how to understand where the needed clues to solve the poem are, and to be perfectly honest has been one of my biggest dilemmas. The book states clues, the poem states hints, the lead in to the poem tells the readers the poem contains 9 clues to the chest, Fenn as repeated all you need is the poem and to solve the 9 clues. After the fact comments of clues and then useless clues etc.

      Many, myself included, have talked about the differences and the possible reasons why… Chris Yates included. This is all the perspective of each individual on what they want to believe and nothing more. The main point of ALL the discussions over the years is not about “poem purist”, “the book’ deliberately misleading comments or not, etc. It has always been to try and understand what is helpful and what is a clue needed… nothing more.
      The problem is, some are very pigheaded in a single view, and yell at the top of there lungs everyone who thinks different is wrong…maybe because it kills their perfect little solve and they don’t like that. For what ever reason IMO at this point in time we will not know what an actual clue[s] that is “Needed” until the correct solve is revealed.

      Everything I have said, Chris Yates has said, many many other searchers have said, is all speculation… That is the cold hard fact.
      I don’t believe fenn intended or even misspoke to throw off anyone. For someone to think that… and some do and voice it everyday on the blogs, Forums, chatrooms… I have to ask them why are you even here, if that is truly what you think? That makes no sense to me, other than for attention period.

      • Im delighted to have jump started your engines this morning without paying for a round at Starbucks!!

        To be clear for all. I have never called ff a liar. I do however believe he meant the treasure hunt to be a highly intellect game of poker with bluffing included. Read TTOTC from cover to cover.

        Buy his books!

        • When did the Chase morph from a treasure hunt meant to get the average family off the couch and away from their texting machines to a highly intellectual game of poker with bluffing? Does this morphing occur on a schedule with new play books and X0 diagrams? Or does Chase format change along with ambient temperatures to the third decimal degree? Maybe with gradation changes of ff’s mood ring?

  14. Forrest said that people would be very surprised to where the chest is located (or something along those lines)…

    Has anyone thought much of this comment?

    Is it because it would make people think “Why haven’t I thought of that?”

    • If Fenn said that, I would think maybe it is a reference to his age when he hid TC? People may be amazed that an 80 year old man was able to place TC there?

      • Jake, thanks for pointing out that many of Forrest’s words are obvious, but we often don’t see that. If he did say what cluesfromphilly described, you’re likely spot-on.

        Another great example: When Forrest said, “The treasure is below 10,200 feet.” I don’t think he meant that as a general limit on elevation; instead, I think (IMO!!!) he meant, “The treasure sits below a 10,200 foot peak” (somewhere above 5000 feet.)

        Living in the mountains, I’ve learned that ranges or individual peaks are not just described by their peak elevation, but also by their prominence – how much they rise above the surrounding landscape. For example, a range may have peaks in the 9800′ to 10,200′ range, but the surrounding valleys are about 6000′, leaving only a 4000′ local elevation gain. Something to think about when determining what an 80-year-old man could do that would surprise you. 🙂

        Also, regarding your earlier comment about Indulgence being safe in a stream, I wanted to convey the fact (from personal experience) that during spring/summer runoff in the Rockies, even babbling brooks can turn into raging waters, easily moving 200 pound boulders. Neat trick to try, if you’re ever near a creek with heavy flow: take a piece of pipe, like PVC, hold one end in the creek against a big rock, and the other to your ear. Listen for a few minutes, and you’ll hear all kinds of clunks and thumps of rocks moving downstream.

        • Naught,

          You Wrote –

          “When Forrest said, “The treasure is below 10,200 feet.” I don’t think he meant that as a general limit on elevation; instead, I think (IMO!!!) he meant, “The treasure sits below a 10,200 foot peak” (somewhere above 5000 feet.)”

          I used to think along these exact lines. I even made a trip to Bandelier since it is PERFECTLY bound by 5000 feet at the lowest elevation (Rio Grande) and 10,200 at the highest (Cerro Grande).

          A pair or Grandes!!

          Scott W.

      • I thought it would mean that it was so obvious that all the clues and hints in the book are so simple that it easily leads to the chest, if read/ interpreted how he meant it to be…

          • Yes, somewhat, 10 years down the road laptops will be near extinction. That’s why I allocated most of my time to finding the treasure. Then I can design a new neural implant into someones brain to enable complete interaction with digital devices with a thought. Just kidding ; )

          • hey jake faulker why will laptops be gone i love mine its 6 yrs old just now starting to having an issue

          • Yeah I guess tablets are still not taking off in the business community, which is your target least not yet…

            If you can invent that and bring it to market I am sure you can innovate something when the time comes for tablets…

          • There is an end day for everything & everyone, unfortunately. For those that bend, mold, morf & adjust there is a future. We just need our souls to get to the next level. I am not sure if finding TC will fill that void but will help.

  15. Well let’s take a closer look at the C yates quote:

    “there is a reason for this i think, as this thing got big, the number of searchers and people studying the book and poem became exponentially bigger thereby greatly increasing the chances of this puzzle being solved by someone,…”

    If this were really true, mathmatically, one would expect that TC would have been found by now. Surprisingly, Chris, that hasn’t happened. In fact the opposite is true…no one can make a compelling case that anyone is closer or knows anymore than we did to start with….tho many think that they do.

    ” i think FF decided it was ok at this point to start carefully phrasing things a certain way to employ misdirection. the clues in the book are so critical, that if FF can say things that imply the opposite, without ever actually saying something false, he would do it….if i am right about this, and i think i am, he has been very successful in steering people in the wrong direction, believing something that isn’t true, it isn’t what he has actually ever said, and it contradicts other things that have been made so clear when you examine everything he has communicated .”

    Really? Why has he stated definitively that the opposite is the case? He said there are no “red herrings or mis-direction”. If we believe he hid a chest why would he lie about that?

    “….of course he hasnt contradicted himself, but he has gotten people to take a contradictory meaning. i see a lot of people here on this blog who have fallen for this, and it effectively removes you from having a realistic chance of solving this puzzle if you do.”

    I personally think that the people that try to make this case are the frustrated ones that need to rationalize why they can’t solve the puzzle. They can’t believe that the riddle is just to hard for them so the accusations start flying “he lied, he mislead, he steered me in the wrong direction.” I think that one thing most people don’t realize is just how easy it is to construct a difficult clue. Fenn’s not worried about someone solving this… the contrary, he now has lots of evidence that the clues are rock solid and doing a superior job.

    The people that need to get a grip here are the ones that can’t cope with their own failures to make progress on a solution. No one said it would be easy.

      • Cholly,
        Agreed. It would be interesting to know how the population of searchers is distributed among the 4 states.

        I’m not too worried regardless. An “exponential” increase in searchers has not equated to better solutions, better thinking, or more success….so far.

        I think this puzzle still has legs.

        • There was a servey done when the maps was sold that pointed out where they were being sold to. Maybe you can use that as a 1000-1 ratio

    • Agreed, What’s false is not necessarily a lie. False and lies are different things.

      I have no psychological analysis to add.

  16. Concerning general discussion of Fenn’s nature above. First and foremost, I do not believe Fenn is a “liar” nor imply such. I have the utmost respect for the man as well as how this blog is run as a whole. This is a great environment to discuss the chase as well as a tremendous resource for years of TOTC-Fenn related info.

    My interpretation or opinion of Goofy’s comments and warning those for posting potential words that lean towards direct accusations to “tarnish” Fenn’s honor is appropriate. But that is not my place to decide nor others to decide what is ultimately appropriate as we do not hold the keys to this site. That is how I view it, the moderator moderates, enough said, choose words wisely as words on a page can be misconstrued; and thus the dilemma of all chasers in trying to interpret the poem into a boots on the ground path to the TC, let alone trying to fully understand Forrest and what thoughts or stories/other info he has shared.

    With that said, one can not deny the fact that the first words of TOTC are:
    “All of the stories that mingle among these pages are as true to history as one man can average out that truth, considering the fact that one of my natural instincts is to embellish just a little. Nevertheless, the story about my treasure chest is true, …”
    Later is written -“Besides, non-fiction writers don’t have to be right but eighty-five percent of the time and everyone knows that. How else can a person write a book?”

    Fenn is a game player. He knows what he is saying. If one decides to interpret incorrectly, that is their own animal to contend with. I tend to feel like I am beating myself by allowing myself to fall down the multiple rabbit holes. He set the stage but you are the one decide the outcome with all the extraneous info that could be considered or interpreted.

    If you want to use only the poem, go for it, but he has suggested that we should be looking for the “abstract” in the book when questioned about “hints” in the book, from my recollection at one of bookstore interviews. The “abstract” could be simply the “embellishments”?? These could be placed to possibly stimulate thought but not to mislead unless you allow it to mislead you. Likewise, I suppose the potential is there for the SB’s to have some relevant info if you can identify it as well? Fenn is not ‘misleading’ on purpose as he has said he is not deliberately doing so. He is careful how he treads and he knows if he may be giving something away or not, we do not know with certainty, and also that his words could be interpreted in various ways. That is not lying. How to read Fenn 101, “Life is a game of Poker.”


      • Yes, I have one that has been bothering me for awhile because it could allude to a different interpretation of the “some have been within 200 feet” comment. To his knowledge he is not aware of anyone being closer than that as he is basing it on what some/someone (multiple times?) have told him in detail or shown him by picture (which is harder proof in my mind they were actually BOG at the location) through email or by other method I suppose. To give such a specific 200 feet reference range from a known focal point location that is undeniably recognizable to Fenn. To be able to make the statement the info supplied had to be compelling enough, especially if one were to discount any high traffic area within 200 feet.

        What if the reference to “200 feet” can be related back to TOTC Teachers with Ropes — “When crossing the street they looked like a giant centipede. Finally a second teacher, who had been at the back of the centipede enforcing discipline, walked in.” Abstract allusions that are envisioned?

        What if the giant centipede is what someone has been within near range of? And the TC? Centipedes per Wikipedia- “Despite the name, centipedes can have a varying number of legs, ranging from 30 to 354”. So our giant centipede could easily have 200 feet. Let me put it this way, Fenn just said someone has been within 200 feet, did he specifically say a clear distance (not even considering whether it is horizontal or vertical distance on the relative plane one may be standing)? In the numerous times now I have heard the 200 feet thing, I have not heard the word distance as descriptor of what type of “feet” we are talking about.

        This line of thinking may seem ludicrous, I still have hard time contemplating the thought, but he said it and we are just interpreting in one way? not the way it was meant to be understood but only he knows that? Abstract and imagination I guess. Is it feasible or did I miss a clear concise defining moment of clarity where he was referring specifically to distance only?


        • There is a few hints toward forrest’s own feet…cuddles twins, hush puppies, maybe his shoe size is a foot?
          Or, when I hike, I count my paces, perhaps these are the feet? That would be a meter give or take, and we know that’s a hint too! It all depends, steve, how you, as an individual, read the poem.

    • My nails are trimmed, I ready to type and wag tails again Goofy. Instead of quoting Yates I’ll just state my OPINION.

      We all tend to either “tarnish” or “varnish” the truth to present our opinion of truth as a shinier, more appealing package.

      While data and numbers are easily averaged in an equation, it’s just not that simple with truth. Everyday in our judicial system witness testimony illustrates how differently people interpret the “truth” or facts as they see it.

      If Forrest averages truth 85% true leaving a 15% residual in the “not true” or “not completely true” category; we still have to decide if that 85/15% percentage is his actual baseline; then figure out which details in his stories should be questioned as true or not true.

      Now throw in HIS poker and fox costume comments for a little confusion in the hen house. (Go ahead and squawk).

      For th record:
      I think the treasure exists.

      I think Forrest “embellished” SOME stories in TTOTC to better illustrate hints in the book.

      I think the military record stands on its own. stories are level, accurate, and may be quantified through records.

      Regarding the poem: I take Forrest at his word – it’s straight forward, albeit complex, there are no red herrings in the poem or deceptive tricks placed to mislead.
      I think the poem is far more complex than most will ever note.

      Regarding the blogs, I think forrest has fun playing poker at the tables – in this arena. Interpret that how ever you choose.

      Wag your tail Goof!

      • Anna,
        What does poker have to do with the hen house? Your starting to sound like 15 % Fenn. Eh just bending your arm a bit. If I had to guess who’s key is not very far from a tumbler off I’d go with you either way.
        Just my opinion.

      • Suppose an offering of ff’s 15% of “embellishment” is that the true/false split is 85/15? Suppose the ratio is quite different?

        • Tamara,I should have not spouted so fast. I believe he said that in order for a non fiction to be considered true it only had to be 85% accurate. He said his were as accurate as one man could recall. And that he tends to embellish a bit. I hoped this clears it up as it’s the best I can recall. IMO.

  17. I received my book today i am looking forward to the read to see what i can get out of it..

  18. As the searching season draws to a close fairly soon, I wonder if anyone has gotten closer than 200 feet to the chest this year.

  19. Just finished a long day of searching, and a great trail ride up Watkins Creek to Coffin Creek. Saw alot of Griz activity. No blaze, no treasure.
    Soothing my sore rear with some nectar of the Gods and a good night’s rest. Will return to my search site in S. MT.
    F said, why can’t we all just get along. Using that, I’ve made friends with the locals where ever I go, and have had some amazing insights and adventures otherwise missed.
    Back to chasing my rainbow, reading my poem and book and only believing 85% of it! 🙂
    ¥Peace ¥

    • “reading my poem and book” Did you write a poem and book that you did not share with us? Please post, I would love to hear your poem. I can’t believe you would believe only 85% of your poem and book.

      You can only interpret what you can’t understand. If you understand you are only interpreting.
      ¥Peace ¥

      • Jake, I’m referring to my copy of TOTC BOOK AND FENN’S POEM.
        Although, I keep a daily journal of searches, and pics for each search, I will ONLY publish my crazy adventures when I find the chest!
        I believe in re-searching areas, things can be missed. I would just die if someone went to my area I wrote about and found the treasure, so I don’t like to give specifics.
        I did submit a poem on Dal’s Poetry page.
        Thank you for your interest.

        “If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.”~Lewis Carroll

        • Thanks Donna,
          I hope you share all your writings & travels when you find the TC. I know I would.
          I will be in W Yellow Oct 3rd & will share my 4th process of elimination is what I like to call it.

    • Good luck Donna! Sounds like you’re having a great time searching. How’s the weather in S. MT? The last time I tried to search around there it was cold and rainy. 🙁 I hope you or someone finds the treasure soon so I can go and obsess about some other treasure. 🙂

  20. Check out the Cheat Sheet on this blog. In there, Fenn has stated that searchers in the past have been within 200 feet of the treasure. If you read the full quote, he later says, he doesn’t think that searchers have been closer than 200 feet. Thus, I wonder if that has changed. Anyway, good luck with the search.

  21. Goofy, you need to chill! Anna wasn’t being conclusionary. On a different note, I was reading the scrapbook about FF’s hat and it shows him standing in front of a lake. But, what is he holding? Looks like the bear in the lake is photoshopped into the lake. If this is a hint, do we consider the hat, the thing he’s holding, the lake area or the bear? He talk’s about the hat, but there are other things going on. Please share your thoughts on this.

    • I’m always chilled Rosie…….Dal has explained that scrapbook several times. Do you guys do any research at all?

      • Ouch! Yes, I do! But, I also like websites with policies and disclaimers. I also like websites that have a nice index and that are organized in a way to help a person learn. We are doing our best with the tools that are available.

        • I think this blog has taken on a life of it’s own, it is fast moving, not much time for disclaimers and the one policy is state IMO or no hard feelings when you get nuked, lol!

          • Wow! Chilly, Only two options. Sounds like management needs additional resources. I’m sure there are volunteers out there. And, here’s my IMO….

        • HA! Policies and disclaimers…..That’s hilarious Rose……We’re making this up as we go. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.

          I’ve done the best I can do organizing the material……There is a lot of it. If you think this is bad you should have seen Dal’s blog over on the free wordpress site in the year 1 B.G. (before goofy).

          I’ll give you a hint…..if you will actually read the scrapbook you’re talking about you’ll find a link in the comments to one of the comments Dal made about that scrapbook.

          • Your response was an excellent example. Thanks for the hint… but, could you post the link? I look forward to the AG. Oh, Additional Goofy….;-)

          • Rose you’re the one that brought up that scrapbook and wanted comments on it. You don’t know where it’s at?

            Actually you should move your question over to that scrapbook instead of here in the nine clues….Thanks

    • It’s it’s definitely the hat that’s a clue. the bear came from the tree that the Chess is hidden in and if you measure ff Weiner dog, calculate XY÷42+ 9-10 mile from 8.25 N you’ll find the first of 9 blazes, that if followed precisely will lead around high waters to the correct tree.

      Oh right… Imo

    • Rose, that’s an excellent example IMO of what I meant by Forrest playing poker with us on the blog. The photo eclectic, funny, may have hints or not, but keeps us all guessing. I think f posts some of them just to laugh at how stupid our comments are or how far off base we are on hints.

      Over two years of lurking, posting, and carefully watching every video of ff available – there is one observation I believe is accurate:
      He is so bright that he uses what I call “Wheel Spoke thinking”
      ff can link the hubbif a wheel of thoughts to 6-8 different fields almost instantly in a circular fashion.

      in that SB, We see a bear in the water and think grizzly country or TC is at a lake. Forrest “might” (all guesses) be thinking of a joke about a “bare behind” brain activity that blows our minds, artwork, a code on the Stone of destiny (the stone monolith) next to him. Or maybe the exact location of the treasure. Only he knows.

      Another example of F’s “Wheel spokes” In TTOTC: soda bottle caps story could be true, could mean look at CAPital letters in Story for directions, or could mean look near farm circles you can see on google earth in Park County near YNP, or look for an architectural CAP stone on site.

      The book has spokes, and IMO the poem has wheels spinning inside of wheels. It’s a complex puzzle posing as a simple poem so we’re all lulled into wondering about our wandering.


        ** This took a whole 60 seconds to find**

        dal on July 15, 2015 at 12:55 pm said:

        That photo is completely photoshopped by me. There are no hints or clues in it. I will try to recover from some nearly dead brain cells how it all came about but accuracy is a moving target and truth is just a rumor…
        So there may be errors in my recounting…but they are not on purpose…they are because I can’t recall the exact sequence.

        I had this photo of Forrest..
        I don’t remember what it originally looked like..
        He asked me to float the hat above his head a few inches..
        I thought that was a weird request…but who am I to question Forrest.

        I cut him out of the background and found that landscape shot on the web. I believe I flipped it left to right so it would be harder to identify. I floated his hat above his head and in the original photo there was something odd in the shot…I don’t remember what…so I decided to cover it up with that strange looking pillar-stone. I sent the photo to Forrest and he was okay with it so we posted it. A day or two later he asked me to put the bear in there somewhere. I think that had something to do with a comment someone made about bears…being afraid of them…I’m sorry..I can’t remember why . So I found the bear on the web and placed him in the shot a couple of days later.

        I think if you look at the dates on the comments you can tell when the bear showed up…

        So..other than requesting the floating hat and requesting a bear in the shot somewhere…Forrest had no input on the layout or the specific elements..

        That’s all I can squeeze out of my brain …

        • @Seeker, Thank you. Dal says there are no hints are clues in it. Is this Dal’s interpretation or did FF actually say that to Dal?

          • You said:

            “If there was language about what was FFs portion of the photo and what was non FFs, that would have helped me understand and interpret the photo.”

            I just posted the language… decide what ya like to do with it… For me, the whole point of the SB was a fun contest… not unlike the natural Christmas ornament contest, and others that have taken place.

      • @Anna, thank you. I read the Scapbook post, but didn’t read the comments. If there was language about what was FFs portion of the photo and what was non FFs, that would have helped me understand and interpret the photo. I’m still trying to understand how the picture of FF with the hat floating above his head–putting everything else aside, is determined not a hint by Dal. How would Dal know what is or isn’t a hint, unless FF told him. FF did direct Dal to put the bear in and float the hat.

  22. Mr. Magica is trolling again, but at a different site. He seems to have them a bit more riled up than he managed to do here . I actually lifted my promise to myself not to post there again just so I could warn them.

    He’s playing them much better (and longer) than Goofy would have ever allowed on this site.

    This guy won’t give up.

    I didn’t mention the site URL on purpose, so don’t ask.

    By the way, one of the posters actually referred to him/her and the members as pond-scum.

    “As usual all the nut jobs, trolls, misfits and (to borrow a Brit term) “wankers” banned from HoD come here to strut their stuff and soil the site. Now we know why they call us pond scum : its because they send all the scum to us!”

    I would say that is a nod to Goofy. IMO, of course! 🙂

    Scott W.

      • Jake,

        I have zero inside info. You must have me confused with someone else.

        I’m just a software developer that got got up in this whole mess. :0

        Scott W.

          • I googled him. Perhaps I did not find what you did, but I did find the connection to Yellowstone.

            However, If I were forced to pick a person named Brown to save my life, it would be Joseph C. Brown, the surveyor of the Santa Fe Trail.

            FYI – he actually uses the word “nigh” in his field notes, and his map was upside down and backwards ( N=S, E=W).

            But…. since Forrest told us we don’t need to know anything about history, I threw all this out the window. I am focused on geography (just as he told us to). Well, not really – he said a comprehensive knowledge of geography would be helpful.

            Scott W.

          • Nice info Q,
            I was a little Leary about GTB being HOB, but he was the 1st African American to paint YNP. I thought Fenn may have purchased a painting of his, most notably the realistic painting of the brown trout hanging from a nail on wood. Painting is called “trout” I emailed oldsantafetradingco & asked if they had a painting by this artist & Fenn replied to my email to my disbelief. No sir. F
            I emailed him again to get more info to no avail.

  23. Jake, GTB Def painted in YS. As far as HOB, it’s not my HOB.
    If I’m still in the W.YS area Oct, I’ll post it here, we can sip some suds and chat.
    Unless, Seeker doesn’t want a freckled red head buying anyone else a beer!
    €Peace €

    • We may sip a few suds. I have a feeling you will still be there. You are still retired from the rat race? Only to graduate to the chase. I will be at the Golden West, probably the only one in town with a wet suit to go snorkeling in Oct. in the Gibbon, Madison & Fire Hole Rivers just for the thrill of it of course.

      • Jake, yeah retired from one rat race to another…
        I can spot you if you need one, when/if you dive for PLEASURE. The treasure is exposed to the elements of mother nature, including fire and snow, so won’t be submerged, but may be near falls, and mist is coating it. F said “it is wet”.
        Maybe I’ll get a suit too!
        Be safe!
        £Peace £

        • I may need a spot after not finding TC, but I think you may need a few spots which I will gladly spot. I thought Fenn said TC was “Exposed” other people or person added the other wording. Correct me if I am wrong. “Exposed” is a vague term. Of course it is exposed to something.

  24. I missed Forrests latest comment here on the blog. Can anyone tell me which thread it’s on, please?

    • Forrest Fenn on September 17, 2015 at 12:34 pm said:
      Thanks to everyone who came to my book signing party. I think the most fun was had by the 40 or so searchers who retreated to the bar after being thrown out of the Santa Fe room. Dal and Cynthia were the two ringleaders and the swat team probably was on alert. Amy served me pastries (including a great eclair) while I was signing books, so her name goes on top of my next party list. It was fun to put faces with some cyber names. Pat and Laurens Johnson (with whom I started 1st grade in 1936) were grilled by deb and revealed some things that I have always denied. But all is quiet now and my plums are almost ripe. That means fall is getting close in and winter can’t be far behind. Maybe I’ll hibernate for a while and wait for spring to residuate anew. I love nature when she does those things.

      • Thanks wise one. I appreciate your help and would have enjoyed meeting Forrest and the gang of searchers.

        Do you know what residuate means when not used as a math term?

        Forrest looked nice in his plum colored sweater – any mention of plum significance?

        • This is from…

          (v.t.) Residuate; to find the residual of

          Etymology: O. Fr. residu—L. residuum—residēre, to remain behind.

          I recall f mentioning feeling “ripened” in his Bullet SB and this uses Plum and Ripe…
          Definition of
          “like a ripe plum or ripe plums” in English:
          Used to convey that something can be obtained with little or no effort.

          Also possibly symbolism of the color purple… Lots of interpretations can be made there…. IMO

          • @WiseOne
            Thanks! Maybe someone at the party is close enough to obtain the chest with little effort and end up purple in the face from Lifting the gold.

            Appreciate the help WO

  25. Clues From Philadelphia…

    Please ignore if you already read these….

    These are clues/hints that I interpreted to mean the chest/chase has strong ties to Philadelphia…

    1- Catcher in the rye, the book Forrest mentions in the 1st chapter in TTOTC, author went to Valley Forge Military Academy and based the school in the book of that…It is located in Wayne, in the suburbs of Philadelphia…

    2-Forrest mentions George Washington….He played a important part in the Philadelphia region

    3-When the chest is open, the keyhole region is shaped in a “keystone” shape..PA is called the “keystone State”

    4-Forrest mentions that he flew over Philadelphia and it was one of a few major events of his life, I think that he covered so many millions of people up with his thumb was that event….

    5-Forrest said the chest was “300 miles west of Toledo”…the town next to toledo is called slyvania, which means “woods”… Pennsylvania means “Penn’s Woods”..kinda like ‘in the wood’…

    6-Forrest mentions bells throughout TTOTC…. Philadelphia is home to the worlds most famous bell, The Liberty Bell…

    7-Forrest’s favorite football team is the cowboys…they are the rivals with the best football team in the nation, The EAGLES…Tomorrow the boys’ will get creamed by the birds’ …This has nothing to do with anything…

    *This is IMO and I do not believe the chest is located anywhere near Philadelphia but maybe the ‘keyword’ that unlocks the poem is from philly or something…

  26. Did anyone see the big mouse blaze on the hill? Look at Cabresta Creek in Questa, NM and then go down on Calle Del Sol Rd and keep going up the hill and there’s a giant mouse blaze. It looks like a mouse ruin. Couldn’t tell if someone cut down the trees to make the blaze. This was a fun solve but couldn’t see Indulgence.

  27. Had a good hike today in Montana, absolutely beautiful day, though winter is almost upon us. Snow level from this week’s storm was about 8800-9000 feet. Today was a timed hike, to emulate how far a spry, 80-year-old man could hike in an hour. I think Fenn’s secret place would surprise us all.

    I discovered a different angle on the ‘no paddle up your creek’ line, when I found a dry creek next to the human trail, with a game trail heading off into the woods next to it, short of where I think the solve leads. This doesn’t fit , other than it might make things a bit easier, the hike shorter. Fenn said, ” But I will say that I walked less than a few miles if that will help.” when asked how far he walked to hide the treasure after leaving his car. Problem is, “few” is relative to the total distance, and we all know how he likes to play with words. And, was he talking about the total distance? Round trip? Or, was his response specific to the question – how far from his car? Who knows, I might change everything past that point, lol. Boots on the ground and all that.

    Unfortunately, my cell phone pictures turned out incredibly crappy; next time I won’t leave the DSLR in the truck. 🙂

    I will be heading out at least every week as long as the weather holds out. Good luck to us all. Maybe I’ll run into you in the wood.

  28. I almost hate to say it but has no one here thought perhaps the nine clues are just nine simple words? Just gotta put the right words together in the right order and bam you have it. The trick is to figure out how to find the words, focus less on maps and more on arrangements is key(key word perhaps). FF likes maps but he loves words. the clues in the book are not places to start at, they are places to consider when you figure out the poem and see if they fit. With the solve I have from the poem I get a 10sqft area to look, no map required…. In one week I’ll know if I’m right and I’m 100% certain I am. No one who took 15yrs to make this poem would miss what I found. Association will solve the riddle, put down the maps and pick up a dictionary.

    • I think the poems 9 clues could be a word, words, maybe 2 word clues like “heavy loads” and “water high” or multiple words or phrase “There ‘ll be no paddle up your creek”, “blaze” could be one clue? Michael H. do you think “blaze” is a clue or statement.

    • I’m more in agreement with Michael H. on this. We have been told every word is deliberate, not all words will lead to the chest but unwise to discount them. I can see the poem work as a whole and read as pieces that flow into one.

      Yet, one thing that fenn said that seem to make me think of another way to look… the poem is straightforwards. Can some and / or all of the “clues” be backwards?” Is the poem describing an area and the clue[s] mirror image. For those who enjoy clues being n the book or hints or just helpful information… talks of mirrors is used within the book, SB and Q&A’s. Are they hints? I don’t know but we have been told to see aberration of the edge.
      Preface “readers… don’t see a little of themselves in the mirror, then maybe they deserve another turn.” SB. Mirrors in the bathroom… fenn selfie. etc.

      The interesting thing about the book and the poem is it jumps from past to present and present to past. A lot of the poem have this same mirror effect in the words.
      Treasure ~ trove
      Warm ~ cold
      Take in ~ put in
      Not far ~ too far
      New ~ old
      brave ~ meek…. etc.
      Lines and sentence seem to do the same as well.

      9 clues may just be 9 words, but if that was the case, how does the poem work? That would be a lot of wasted space.

      • Seeker, I like that quote from the preface you mentioned above.

        Now I’m straying from the point you were trying to make: I like how that quote ties to ff’s comments on page 13, where ff says JD’s book was “my very own story line”. This is just my opinion, (& I don’t believe this helps find the treasure) but I feel ff is saying: I saw myself in JD’s book – and I liked that. So now I hope the readers of my book will see themselves – and I hope you will like that.

        This is how I feel about these comments: we should just continue sharing stories and adventures with each other; then we will see how much we all have in common.

        My comment above is kind of off-topic. To bring my comment back on topic: I’m re-reading ttotc (looking for “clues that are scattered among these pages”) and I’m making notes of: each time something is disguised or hidden. For example: the fox dresses like the hound, the coffee cup covered her whole face . . . I’m hoping this might give me hints as to how ff hid the treasure, and why we aren’t finding that spot.

        • “Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking.  Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.”

          “There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”

          “I’ve said things people think are clues.”

          “The poem in my book is something that I changed over and over again. When you read the poem it looks like just, just simple words there. But I guarantee you that I worked on that. I felt like an architect drawing that poem.”

          “The person that finds it, is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.” 

          “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.”

          Golden Retriever,

          When I read comments like these and others from fenn. I have to think that the “sprinkling” of Clues ~ hints ~ information, is not just a single thing in the book, but something that is repeated to catch the attention of the reader. The preface mentions mirror, stories mention mirror in some form or another… his Dad shaving or a reflection etc. Something that seems simple to the stories yet stands out through out the stories.

          When he said there are a couple of good hints and a couple of aberrations… This paused me to think that either the reader would have to look under a Microscope to find a “couple” or as an example, the mirror image is stated many times in many ways yet means one thing. For me attempting to see red tea as a clue or dancing gypsies is a hunch. I feel that something that would be helpful is cleverly repeated yet truly not needed for the stories.

          If that makes sense to you. Here’s a question I would like to ask… “The person that finds it, is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.”

          What do you think he meant by Thinks and Plans? Other than planning a trip, planning time off of work, planning supplies, why do WE need to PLAN anything that involves solving the poem? That seems strange to say. These are what I see as possible aberrations.

          • Seeker,
            Is see the Planning statement as merely cautionary. Here’s a couple of simplistic reasons why someone might need to plan.

            Perhaps you need to cross a stream/creek and this would only be possible at certain times of the year. There may be other natural events to plan around.

            Or, maybe there’s a best time to avoid crowds.

            Granted these aren’t tough things to plan but picking the right time to go might make and extraction a lot easier.

            How many stories have we heard here where someone ran off to the mountains in a hurry, wore themselves out in knee deep snow, got altitude sickness, and ended up in the hospital dehydrated?

            All that could be avoided with just a little proper planning.

          • “Or, maybe there’s a best time to avoid crowds.”
            Yea sounds like a plan to me.
            Your going to have to deal with the crowds or the cold, I’ll take the cold.

          • colokid even with very meticulous planning anyone can run into an issue. we knew all about altitude sickness and were being as careful as we could yet i got sick. we carry small first aid kit mainly to stabilize injuries and to stop bleeding. more is left by car. we learned to use long boot laces to tie walking sticks to belt loops in case you fall in water. long shelves, long pants light cotton glove protect from poison ivy. in our case because we have to cross a stream everything has to go in zip bags to keep everything dry. we cross in shorts then change on other bank and we leave extra clothes etc there include a sandwich etc. we take light food for lunch with us because you have to carry so much water. thank God we are up to high for snakes.

          • Colokid,

            Sure can see that as planning. I could say that from start to finish is 30 miles to actually travel so planing such a trip is necessary and being safe.

            I was thinking more in lines to Time or season may come involved. lets say a shadow is use, a sundial if you will… just at the right time of day or time of year. Maybe a natural formation that show a beam of sunlight or cast a shadow. This could be the reason to Look “quickly” down. Linger to long and you’ll miss it.
            “Planning” for such an event would take time and research, as well as only allow a short window of opportunity to actually retrieve the chest.

            Could this be why folks didn’t understand the significance of where they were? and why the walk passed the chest? Just random thoughts… but that would be interesting if true. Fenn could narrow down a time period when the chest is capable of being found and use one or two time a year when that can happen… Maybe that is why he hopes it cannot be found for 100 or 1000 years.

            Naaa! Seeker your thinking toooo Abstract. My bad.

          • Seeker, You have mentioned some great ideas. O.K., I’ll go thru the book, ttotc, looking for and making note of any cleverly repeated concepts; including the concept of mirrors/reflections. I’ll tell you what I find.

            Your question regarding the words “thinks and plans”, is a great question. I’ll think about it and get back with you. That question ties into a question I have. And your comment posted below at 12:40pm ties into this same question I have. My question is: when searchers were within 200 feet of the treasure, why did they go the wrong direction? Why did they pass by all the other clues? Why didn’t one of the searchers, turn or walk toward the chest? Did they look toward the chest and think, “I’m not going that way, because . . . ” Why? Did it look boring . . . did it look scary . . . did it look like a dead-end . . . or, as you mention below, was it the wrong time of day or wrong time of year?

            I believe there’s something weird at that spot that makes searchers go the wrong direction. Since ff says it’s not too dangerous, there’s not a blood-thirsty 3-headed dog standing guard. I think there’s something peaceful, natural, and very tricky, which stops searchers from turning that direction.

            Ff has said something like (this is not an exact quote): When the chest is found, people will be surprised where it is. And he said something like: People will say: I should have thought of that place.

          • Golden Retriever,
            You may not like my reasons, as they require the searcher not to searcher for a canyon or a place for the meek should not be or paddling anything. I think all those are description are of an action, the IT if you will. The first two clues must work in conjunction with each other, being the same place.

            That the chest is very very near. So why did other go by the other seven clues… those clues tell how to understand the first two. That may sound too easy or even to far fetched, so look at it this way,

            I say start at the mountain peak and then describe random locations that fit almost all Mountain peaks and the area, could you find which peak? Just because I said start at the mountain peak does that make it the first clue? But by describing all mountains peaks you would have to pick and choose which to go to and hope for the best.

            Is this just like the poem with WWWH? But if I added a word that seems different and out of place… something that asked why is it there, such as warm. Does that word indicate something that is needed to be known.

            The rest of my explanation would take way to long to explain… but mirror image is involved, multiple meanings and indicators or words that mean the same but “exact opposite”. So simple I see two clues that tell the location of the chest and a description of the area and with out understanding what is actually be describe you would not know what WWWH actually is. Yes I can see you maybe puzzled by this… Look at the bigger area… The really big area.

            IF, and I repeat, IF I’m reading the poem correctly the first two clues are were the chest is and to be found, only by putting the whole poem together and understand what is being described… They’re still all places, just not what you think a place should be. So what are the 9 clues? Understanding the 9 sentences as a complete whole and not parts. This I think is what fenn meant by ” what took me so long ”

            Oh right, “my reasons” “my explanation”
            “IF” and “IF” and “I think”.. all mean, in my politically correct opinion. or IMpcO.

          • Seeker – a person who thinks and plans… these are verbs, not nouns…

            plan (verb):

            – to think about and arrange the parts or details of (something) before it happens or is made

            – to form a diagram of or for : arrange the parts or details of ahead of time

            We don’t know the meaning of our own words… remember several?

            I have done a lot of planning after he told me that in July 2014… after I figured out what he meant…

          • JCM,

            What I mean is Planning with the poem in mind. Could there be something that a searcher needs to do in the field other than just hike out to a spot? Is there any pacing from point to point involved. Is there something that we need to use in the field to align or arrange in a specific place. Maybe standing in a single spot and need to use two or more objects / points, lets just say, three close mountain peaks to triangulate another location… the chest or another clue maybe?

            As you shown, Planning means “ahead of time.’ So what is it that would need planning that involves the poem related to the field in advance? or is planning just simply saying, solve the poem before you go, get gas in the truck, chest tire pressure in the spare, bring plenty of water, let others know where you’ll be… don’t’ forget the flashlight and a sandwich…

          • Thinks and plans . . . That seems to be all I have been doing. I think about it, maybe research something, then try it according to a plan of attack. Fail. Re-think according to new complications. And repeat. Some things for me seem silly and some things appear to require logic – all after the fact observations. IMO I think it takes a lot of time and trial and error at some points. It’s fun and I have revised my interpretations of the clues multiple times! Before I prepare crow dinner, I have one more idea to test out. At times I feel like Wild E Coyote and the Acme store knows me well!

    • Seeker, you have been very helpful in my solve & love your way of thinking. You always seem to open my eyes & confirm my thoughts.

      The mirror theory is well thought & makes perfect sense in my mind.

      • Jake don’t go by what I say, I only had one cup of coffee thus far… wait till I finish a full pot, that’s when the fun begins.

        • So, how much coffee is left in the pot?
          In his book tftw there are 49 chapters, the 49th chapter is called: mirror on my wall. Have you read this book? If not I shall post the poem from this chapter.

          • I have not read tftw. I did read TTOTC, a friend was kind enough to let me borrow it. So my of what I say about the book is from memory.
            Interesting mirror on my wall is in the second book. One day I will buy both and enjoy them… but I have deliberately put off doing that, so I don’t attempt to force fit everything from them.

          • Seeker,
            The last chapter 49th in tftw there is an illustration of now older Fenn looking into a mirror & the image in the mirror is of a younger him. I would say in his 20’s or teens.

            If you happen to ask my age, I’ll say I’m forty-three with forty year’s experience. That makes people laugh.

            Let’s go to the poem:

            Mirror, don’t you stare at me too fast,
            A view that no one can adore.
            You know that sight ignores my past,
            Confirming something I abhor.

            Why do you always look so weird?
            How did you hurt your hair?
            Would you suggest I grow a beard?
            Or don’t you even care?

            Please make my age do what I want,
            And change my looks to twenty-three.
            If you won’t do the things I can’t
            You’ll never be a friend to me.

            You might present me in my teens
            And not be smug with what you see.
            I’d pay the cost within my means;
            A friend would do it just for free.

            You’re nobody without me here,
            Your stare is blank when I’m away.
            So it’s my age that you should fear,
            Y know I hate it being grey.

            Let’s see if we can improvise,
            Forget the things I said before.
            Maybe we can compromise,
            If you’ ll just make me forty-four. FF stamp here

            The only thing I could get out of his poem is I want smash my mirror & show it who’s boss. Just kidding….

            What do y’all get out of this including the obvious.
            I think the end also has something to do with a mirror but 44 is not a mirror but more of duplication?

          • Jake,
            Been putting a little thought into the poem from the tftw. If this should be helpful information… what does it mean, besides just mirror image.
            “Mirror, don’t you stare at me too fast,
            A view that no one can adore.”

            With a bit a stretching interpretation and the first poem in mind… can this relate to, atrocious comment? and Tarry scant with marvel gaze in some way, even with people will be surprised… comment?

            “No one can adore” …Atrocious? Surprised where the chest is. A view that we would normally only take a scant look at and move on, “Don’t stare at me to fast”

            This is what I don’t like to do when seeing after the fact comments as it can take one in so many direction.

            Yet when attempting to understand those comments and how they may relate to the poem solution. Are we really missing something? Fenn change the word “Admire” to “high regard” and another word that slips my mind [ maybe respect ] … to explain how he feels about the location of the chest. But does than mean the place is Beautiful or a place that has significant meaning and something there has change that beauty?

            Quote from the preface TTOTC… “Please overlook my slight penchant for provocation and and realize that all of us are environmentalists to some degree, and me more than most. My church is the mountains…”
            So admire may not be the word that catches the spirit of the location anymore, yet fenn still holds it in high regards.

            Just thoughts.

          • I am not totally convinced there is any worthwhile info to help find the TC in this poem. I think Fenn is being pretty straight forward in this poem. I don’t like what I see in mirrors as well.

          • Jake,

            Yep, I know and agree. But many here in the search believes the book has many clues. I believe the book helps greatly but no actual clues. In my line of thinking a clue is a must need and used for the solve and without it the poem could not be solved. Hints and information just helps with the process of understanding what a clue may be.

            Heck. who truly knows… the book says clues, the poem says hints… if we didn’t have the after the fact comments… I could lean towards the poem hints to the clues in the book to solve the poem.
            Yet the book also says clues in the poem… lol… don’t get me going on clues and hints… I’ll be bald by tonight.

            My only theory is, fenn tries hard to to call almost everything a clue. I think that way he doesn’t give up what a true clue needed is… to just what may be helpful or just hinting. He gave us a poem and the challenge… the rest is for us to decide.

          • Seeker — I almost always enjoy your posts, but there is one theme of yours that has become an exception: your obsession with differentiating hints from clues. I honestly don’t see the point. Forrest makes no distinction, so it seems like an unnecessary exercise in semantics that has the potential to lead you astray.

            I, like you, am a Poem Purist: *if* (and that’s a big if) one is smart enough, the Poem provides all the information you need to find the treasure chest. But I’m also a Fenn Realist: that he expects that most people are *NOT* smart enough to find the chest with just the poem (otherwise someone would have after 5 years!) and that TTOTC and his public statements will help steer searchers in the right direction. IMO, the book *minus* the poem is useless for finding the treasure. But if you have a solid theory that you’ve derived solely from the poem, then other parts of the book may give you some confirmation that your theory is on the right track.

          • Actually Z…Forrest does make a distinction between the two. He actually clearly defines each of them. I would explain but maybe you should ask Seeker, or reread the posts as I’m sure it explains in there. IMO, but really.

          • zaphod,

            I wouldn’t call it an obsession as much as fact finding. I would say other are doing the same as well… “late breaking news” is one example.

            The problem in my eyes is, the word “clue” itself.
            Fenn as made the distinction between a hint and a clue to say, a hint helps with a clue and a clue get you closer to the chest. So if the clue[s] is the “absolute need” to solve the poem/get you to the chest, and we are looking for 9 clues to follow precisely in the poem…Then should a “clue” be outside the poem… the poem can not be solved on it’s own as we have been told time after time.

            This is were the poem purist term was coined, and I can even tell you who coined it… but that person goes by so many names it would be like listing a cheer-leading squad. My only attempt here was to find out if an actual clue [ a needed piece] is not within the poem… nothing more really.

            So, are there 9 “clues” that we “must” know or “10 or more clue[s]”, we “must know”? by Fenn usage of a clue and a hint.

            I have at one time suggested that there may be no actual clues in the poem, just hints [per- poem ] and all the clues were in the book, and the poem’s information leads / help / point to the clues… even then, the ‘book holds clues folks’, didn’t like that comment as well.

            So I ask, if a piece of the solve, ” a necessary clue” was missing from the poem, what would you say to that?


            Jamie, I did send you an e-mail a while back as you asked… I’m not sure if you got it. I remember you had something you wanted to ask or tell me. Did you receive it or did my computer skill just launched into space?

          • HI Seeker,

            You wrote:

            “Fenn (h)as made the distinction between a hint and a clue to say, a hint helps with a clue and a clue get(s) you closer to the chest. So if the clue[s] is the “absolute need” to solve the poem/get you to the chest, and we are looking for 9 clues to follow precisely in the poem…Then should a “clue” be outside the poem… the poem can not be solved on it’s own as we have been told time after time.”

            Fine. As a poem purist, I will stand behind the poem having 9 “clues”, and the book having additional “hints” that are mostly worthless without having solved the first 1 or 2 clues.

            But the reason I get bored with the distinction is that he has provided “hints” (by your definition) that are perhaps even more valuable than the poem clues. The poem says nothing of the following:

            1. the treasure chest is between 5000 and 10200 feet in elevation
            2. the treasure chest is not in Utah, Nevada, Idaho, California, Arizona, Oregon, Washington or Canada.
            3. the treasure chest is almost certainly within 5 miles of a road

            I would argue that just these three statements are *far* more restrictive than the Poem is. So would you say they are hints or clues? 😉

          • Kathryn,
            If you’re saying for “someone.” Ok. That is part of the definition. but the question was about the location of the chest.

            Did you mean something else? Like in the dead?

            There was a picture of an item posted here many moons ago. I believe fenn asked if anyone had information on it… or something like that.
            Anyways the item’s words that were on it, translation was… the church of the dead / ceremony. I think I found it in one of the early SB’s. That was always curious to me.

  29. I noted in the most recent radio interview that Forrest said two interesting things.

    If not mistaken, he unequivacally stated that WWWH is a clue. and second he re-stated the need for imagination and “thinking the right thoughts” regarding the clues.

    In the Outside Mag audio interview he stated unequivacally that the Blaze is a clue. We are starting to see direct quotes where he identifies the lines that most of us probably thought were clues actually are clues.

    Now for the hard part…..”thinking the right thoughts”.

  30. I salute Dal & Goofy,

    Running a blog created specifically for the discussion of ttotc and read world wide is like an Admiral running a large Naval ship.

    While on board, we follow the Admiral’s rules, like it or not. Dal’s ship, Dal’s rules.

    He appointed Goofy – “sherrif ” Rule keeping is never fun, but Goofy does it in spades. I appreciate that R E S P E C T is their governing principle.

    Yesterday, I mis-stepped by not fully explaining myself when including a controversial opinion from Chris Yates. I was hoping for a lively discussion. Goofy warned me. I heeded his warning. No complaint from me.

  31. While looking into a mirror in my 20’s it wasn’t unusual to often see a much ‘older’ person; (Native American) looking back at me. It didn’t bother me, and actually made me feel somewhat ‘wiser.’

    If it has ever happened to you; you’ll know what I’m talking about.

  32. q1werty2 – When I started the chase I spent a lot of time on the Brown you mentioned yesterday. It eventually led me to ask what has become a really important question in my research….what is a good map? Are there clues in the poem wording that tell you the era of map necessary to find WWWH or the blaze.

  33. Could WWWH be wild wild west history? Could the Louis and Clark cipher actually be the Louis and Clark area in Montana? After reviewing Jeremy’s information, which is terrific and appreciated, and ff’s response to Brigg’s partial solve, I now landed two areas to further my search–Montana and Northern New Mexico near Hwy 522. But, today, I found a third area to checkout which is just North of Santa Fe. I now see why ff said that a “kid” could find it.

    • Wh-h-a-at? How can “where warm waters halt” be “wild wild west history”??

      Why does anyone question a cipher when Forrest said none are involved? Doesn’t anyone heed what the man says??

      The Chase has been a marvelous and scary glimpse into the thought processes of the population as a whole. It’s truly frightening. I’m so glad it’s nearly over so I can begin therapy!

        • You’re right Rose, I’d like start sooner, but my therapist is somewhere in the Rockies north of Santa Fe… but thanks for the suggestion!

          The comment stands on its own merit however…
          Just read through all the previous SBs and you’ll see what I mean.

      • Fenn also answered a question of, any level of US history involved … No. [Full quote can be found on MW]

        ” The Chase has been a marvelous and scary glimpse into the thought processes of the population as a whole.”

        Welcome to my world… Please take a number the therapist will see you shortly… lol

      • The Chase has been a marvelous and scary glimpse into the thought processes of the population as a whole. It’s truly frightening. I’m so glad it’s nearly over so I can begin therapy!, LOL Dakota!! rofl that about sums it up in a nutshell!! LOL too funny! I had a good chuckle right in the middle of the library! LOL

      • Dakota,

        “The Chase has been a marvelous and scary glimpse into the thought processes of the population as a whole. It’s truly frightening. I’m so glad it’s nearly over so I can begin therapy!”

        This search has been marvelous and a ‘few’ weird/scary posts. It is clear to me that most all of these folks are good people, friendly folks unlike many other blogs become (thank you very much Goofy).

        What I am curious about is your saying the Chase is nearly over. Do you feel confident it is nearly over? What is your estimate of your use of nearly, months? Mostly I would like to know where you draw this confidence.

        All my opinion and in agreement with the first part of your statement and curious about the last part, as in I don’t have an opinion.

        • Uken2it – I wondered the same thing how Dakota feels the chase is nearly over?! A whole lot of brain power would be channeled elsewhere that is for sure!

          • It’s not over until the TC “sings” Hello I’m here. I do not think we can count on it being over until it actually happens. Of course, the search season will close in for the winter.

          • Didn’t one of the recent “solvers” indicate the solstice, 9/23, would be the date of the find? That’s where I got the notion I believe.

            (Not even MY opinion)

          • Dakota Kid,

            There have been many searcher to have claim the chest will be found as soon as…
            yada yada yada. The one I like the most was a woman from VT, who spent two days and night with the chest, but had to go home to tend the cattle, and told us all no need to search, the chest is found, and they will go back the next year… if the could find a baby sitter for the cattle.

            Wll there was one chap and an alien egg… but I promised I would not bring it up again… so I won’t.

            Here is something I looked up. A while back, Fenn has made statements to the search community about [ paraphrasing] spring is around the corner, searcher should go over the rules when out in the wiles of nature… and… fall is near, and most searcher are done or by the fire for the winter…

            I looked up the dates of those on MW’s and you would be interested to note them. just a thought.

            Again… not exact wording… but can be found on MW.

  34. I was reading through the questions and answers on MW again and this time noticed this:

    Question posted 6/27/2014:

    Is any specialized knowledge required to find the treasure? For instance, something learned during your time in the military, or from a lifetime of fly fishing? Or do you really expect any ordinary average person without your background to be able to correctly interpret the clues in the poem? ~mdavis19

    No specialized knowledge is required mdavis19, and I have no expectations. My Thrill of the Chase book is enough to lead an average person to the treasure.f

    He says the book will lead to the treasure! Not the poem, the book!

    I believe he is very careful when answering questions in print, so why book instead of poem on this one? Any thoughts?

    • Kat,
      Kathryn stated what I believe fenn meant as well.

      Q: Are there clues in the TTOTC book? “Yes, because the poem is in the book.”
      Q: Are there subtle hints in the TTOTC book? “Yes, if you can recognize them.”
      “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker.

      Combined that with the comment. [ paraphrasing ] all you need is the poem… the book for reference… GE and /or a good map.

      A patterns starts to appear. In my own summery, the poem will lead you to the chest once you solve it… the book us useful… and the map thing!? I think [ in my own summary ] it is a larger map of the entire mountain range. such as an aerial view that GE provides …

      • The poem is supposed to lead you right to it. And then it gets difficult but not impossible. Right?

        • That statement is spot-on!!! It’s tricky in the sense that you think you have it, then have to go back and reread the poem.

  35. Seeker & Jake, I agree with your line of thought. FF has said the place was “very dear” to him or “he couldn’t have done it.” “the most Atrocious thing he’s done”
    Forrest did NOT say…a magnificent view, his favorite fishing hole, etc. The mirror analogy confirms his statements as well as the last illustration in TTOTC with the “forest graveyard” where it appears the trees are all chopped down and there was a fire (fire boots on woodsman)

    The litmus test always needs to be the poem. So can we find a line in the poem which confirms a less than magnficient view?

    “But tarry scant with marvel gaze.”
    Without rearranging letters or applying cyphers. If all you do is eliminate the spaces between words you can arrive at:

    Buttary scant (yellowed hill) with Mar (scarred) V(canyon) EL (blazened)
    So with a little imagination (that FF said WAS necessary) I found a marred yellow butte, which looks like a butt, covered with old tree stumps, has a burn mark from a possible helicopter crash which looks like a blazed E or combo LE.

    All my opinoion, but after 2 years of thinking/solving/searching… I look for a hillside that has an old fire and chopped down trees.

    • 42,
      I do like the way you approach this… My personal problem has and most likely always be… time… for the clues or hint etc. to be usable at a physical place, they would need to last some kinda time. Would you agree? in 25 ~ 50 years time that burnt out area can be full of young but tall standing wood, as well as most stumps covered or rotted away, leaving very little to the common eye.

      I always ask this question… Do you think the chest was meant to be found in the shorter or longer time span of… let say… 10 years, to 1000 years? [ or simple stand a test of time ] I find it hard to look at something as a physical place point , that can not last for the long time period. especially if it is a need location of a clue…But that’s just me.

      • Seeker –

        Regarding time – does it make sense that a treasure hunter in the future would have to go back in time – to the time he hid the treasure? We know that to be 2009 or 2010. I think there are many ways to do that as the past has been documented – in writing, in photos and on GE.

        • Into,
          it fall in with, using a place such as a cutting timber, or forest fires etc. and this comment as well as others like it.

          “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

          If he took the initiative to think about a long time span, even a hundred years down the road, why use a clues like the above. One single clue that would be gone in even less time. Some like Earth Quake lake sure, and may still be here for 1000 years or more.

          I would say if that was the case, we may never find it as, how many would look for lumber areas or even know how to start looking… Just between 1930 and 2009 how many forest fires have there been? are they all documented? I have a hard time believing this was not a consideration when he thought about clues. If you jump back 600 years, 99.9% of the world population didn’t even know about the Americas, nevertheless the mountain range.

          If fenn thought of a time span, we should ask how the clues would still possibly work. Especially with boots on the ground and step by step method of following clues.

  36. 42,
    I agree with Seeker. If the poem is capable of lasting 100’s of years then perishable clues like trees, folage, discolorations of the earth, burn areas, stumps, etc just can’t be guaranteed to last.

    I think folks need to think about more permanent landmarks that aren’t liable to change for a long, long time.

    • I agree that it is important to keep in mind the durability of the physical items that the clues may refer to but I would point out that burned areas may be a lot more durable than some suggest. For instance, charcoal layers found can sometimes go back thousands of years, and there has been a lot of speculation about them in the debate as to whether some prehistoric fires were the result of natural events or whether they were intentionally set. Geographers have debated the issue for years as to whether indigenous people used fire to clear the land and use these layers to analyze whether massive fires were intentionally set. Also, some trees can hold fire scars for hundreds of years, and some even thousands of year (sequoia’s). Fire pits too can be traced back long periods of time…Just a thought.

      • An example of ancient fire pits: the Qesem Cave in Israel has a hearth and clear evidence of the controlled use of fire and dates approx. 300,000 years ago.

      • Raven,
        I have to giggle just a little… sorry. The first image that popped into my head was a great great grand father handing a 12 years the book and poem and said. “Go now, Look for the chest like I have for many years… don’t forget to take soil samples…

    • Seeker, colokid, et al.
      I won’t waste time on this, but the blaze in my solution found in the poem is an exact x,y axis giving exact coordinates confirmed by a diagram in the poem so that in another 75-100 years when the ground blaze disappears the coordinates still match perfectly. The area is a hillside covered in sage which changes little in 1000’s of years other than where man cut the trees. The marred area only confirms from ge exact x given from coordinates

      IMO the only way the poem can be self contained and last for eons is through coordinates.

      I have a busy day, Signing off, but enjoy blogging:-)

      • 42: for your system to be viable, it must use as raw material the 166 words of Forrest’s poem, and from them generate approximately 15 decimal digits of information (7 for latitude, 8 for longitude). Since this numerical information does not explicitly exist in the poem, it must be encoded. This is encipherment — specifically, steganography. By choosing to believe that Forrest has done this suggests that you think he was being deceptive when he said (paraphrasing) that knowledge of ciphers will not help you find the treasure. But how is this different (in kind) from Andrew’s Vigenere (sic Lewis & Clark) cipher-based solution?

        • Actually Z, steganography is the practice of concealing info. encrypted in plain test. The poem is offered upfront as containing nine clues….and there are countless ways of plotting things on an X,Y axis without them being latitude and longitude with extensive decimals. Ask any fifth grade Cub Scout troop getting their orienteering badges and Im sure they can explain several. If you are interested in 42s method you may want to ask rather than discount whole using excessive unnecessary verbiage- it seems like you may be stessing yourself out and over complicating things. Just IMO.

          • Hi Jamie — for the record, I’m not the one that brought up X and Y coordinates, 42 did. Perhaps she didn’t mean geographical coordinates per se. But her post quite clearly indicated she believes she has a clue that provides a meridian and a latitude. If she uncovered these by some means others than A=1, B=2, etc., then I stand corrected.

            As for “excessive unnecessary verbiage” — a scan through the Nine-Clues folder wouldn’t put me anywhere near the top of the words/information metric. I try to be concise and cut to the (thrill of the) chase.

        • Thanks for the help Jamie.

          Z, it appears that you are bright, and may even be right. That said, it would be impossible for you to know how I arrived at my solutions without being inside my brain for the past 2 years. My approach is as different from yours as the East is from the West. Only Forrest knows the correct methods to unpack his poem.

          I have no reason to post my solution, and won’t engage you in an argument for you to prove superiority. IMO winning an argument may lose a friendship. There are so many engaging discussions here, but I have chosen not to pick apart other’s solutions or highlight their shortcomings.

          IMO none of this matters in the scope of my life unless we are kind to others and use the talents given to sharpen our minds as we attempt to solve the Poem.. It’s how we each live, our kindness & respect to others – even on a blog, that matters.

          Examples of folks caring about others here are: Jamie stepping in to answer for me; Goofy’s free technical expertise in running this blog; Dal’s unselfishness in providing years of assistance to Forrest with the blog, his cache in YNP; Forrest’s gift to all; Jeremy using his talent to unpack cyphers for us. I once sent money to another searcher I dont know so he could take his daughter to Yellowstone. I wish you all the best Z, put your logical brilliance to work on your own solution.

          • 42 — you are too kind. 😉 I’m not deliberately trying to be a pest. I’m honestly interested in how other people’s noggins work when it comes to this sort of problem with vague clues. 😉

            I completely agree with you on this:

            “That said, it would be impossible for you to know how I arrived at my solutions without being inside my brain for the past 2 years. My approach is as different from yours as the East is from the West. Only Forrest knows the correct methods to unpack his poem.”

            I would only add that I don’t believe I’ve (yet) given any indication of how *I* think Forrest constructed the poem to reveal his clues. I will post about this soon.

            “I have no reason to post my solution, and won’t engage you in an argument for you to prove superiority.”

            Not my intention, and I’m certainly not trying to goad you into providing your solution. I wanted to understand it just enough to provide feedback/guidance. I understand you’re no longer actively searching, so constructive criticism is probably not desired. But in general, I thought one of the points of this blog was for people to hash out ideas, and look for critical (but gentle!) feedback on those ideas. Basically to ask for a “second opinion”. Obviously there is a bit of a poker game going on where people are trying to tip their hands as little as possible while at the same time looking for some degree of confirmation that they’re on the right track. I get that. I’m honestly trying to be helpful by steering people away from ideas that have obvious flaws, are dangerous, or both. But I also try to be supportive when people come up with very clever ideas.

            You have a very unique mind that approaches Fenn’s challenge in a far more “right brain” approach than mine, which is why I find your posts so interesting. But I can see where my prior message could have been construed to be heavy-handed. My apologies for that.

  37. I have a question that seems to be a tricky one. If the searcher believes the chest is not in the canyon what would be the importance of take it in the canyon down? To me it almost seems like something needs to be done in the canyon, if not why go down it especially if its too far to walk.

    • Count,
      One way that I approach the poem is to disregard sentence structure and punctuation. For instance: Take it in = Trim, Shelter something, eat, swallow, absorb. Would then be no need to think that going in the canyon is the intent of this line.

      Hope this makes sense and adds to your thought process as you read the poem.

      IMO this is one of many approaches to the poem.

      • I believe sentance structure and puntuation has everything to do with the correct solve. And logically speaking I also believe there is a reason to go down into the canyon although the chest may not be in the canyon. Fenn has put every word perfectlly in place to aid the seeker to the chest.

        • Count,
          I agree, makes perfect sense to me. “Take it in the canyon down”
          I think “it” is your search like Take your search in the canyon down. I am trying to keep things simple & try to keep the poem as a map.

    • Count,
      There are many possibilities here. Perhaps going into the canyon is just part of a path to getting where you need to go…not necessarily the final resting place. Or perhaps the canyon needs to be crossed to get to the other side by first desending and coming up to the far rim. (Why did the chicken cross the canyon?)

      I mentally like to combine this with the next line “not far but…” and think of that line as the old saying “As the crow flies”. So something might be near (as the crow flies) but practically requires a longer distance to get there (by road perhaps). So your objective might be a short relative distance away but you travel a convoluted path to ultimately get there (maybe down through the canyon).

    • Count,

      What if, you don’t need to go down the canyon? As uken2it showed other meanings of take it in… could easily mean take the view in or just the action of the water itself. So many variations of the interpretation of the poem can be seen, the one you need {imo} is the one that includes the entire poem and not just the popular 11 or 12 lines.

      Food for thought

      • I’m still hungry so here’s another helping of food for thought. Go in PEACE? Peace for me is silent. IMO.

        • straw shadow go in peace – A farewell saying, to leave without harm or harming. To leave with the spirit of God. To egress with safety and peace of mind
          to us it means take the chest and live happy

          • That’s beautiful Wildbirder… I kinda think it’s something like that where you leave the chest as you found it as in don’t separate the coñtents keep them together since there must be a reason he chose the pieces he did to put into the chest.

            Of course I don’t mean leave it where you found it by all means put that thing on the floor boards of your pickup truck and take it and the bracelet back to Forrest 🙂

          • spallies thank you but i need to let you know i didnt write that. i knew the meaning but i not go at writing sometimes so i looked it up and cut and pasted it.

        • Straw shadow,

          I would if possible. But there is the bio, and I would have to publish that as soon as possible.

          The news would be out the chest would have been found… I just need to come up with an alias for the book… Maybe… I. A. Keeper

    • Good question Count…Maybe once you get into the canyon you need to do something… Perform a task or something to be able to see the blaze??? Also, and I am sure a lot of people have already discovered this but there is a “forest canyon” in the Rocky Mountains… Hmmm?

      • I believe there are only a few reasons to go into a canyon that may be too far to walk and that would be
        1. confrim that warm waters halt hete.
        2. determine what the home of Brown truely is.
        3. the only path to the chest is taking the canyon down.

        any others most likely use a mataphoric out look on this line in the pofm

    • Here is another tricky question, if you are at the bottom of the canyon how could you put something below that? Unless its in the river or south or one of the endless metaphoric meanings I don’t see how. If it is putting below in the river it may very well be brown trout. If its south than it wouldn’t be brown trout because if there are trout in that river then they would be south as well. All I keep thinking if it is a home that seems like one singular place.

      • Count, If you are following a stream in a canyon, like the Grand Canyon, you can keep going down & you would be below. I think. It all appears to be relative to something.

        • The next question would be how far down the canyon one would have to go to figure out what you went down for in the first place? If it is to detetmine where warm waters halt there is a very good chance you are going to the river at the bottom.If its to figure out the home of brown then who knows?And if its the path the must be traveledthan most likely a road is there and that would determine it. Either way it seems that when resarching canyons its best to find one that you can go down.

        • Count –

          You asked

          “Here is another tricky question, if you are at the bottom of the canyon how could you put something below that?”

          You go sideways………………..

          • Count,
            And why would you determine WWWH after you have gone canyon down?
            Besides its a phrase ” put in” not the word “putting”. Completely two different meanings.
            I suggest rereading the poem again.
            I think you went down the canyon to look for WWH and got lost in the wood. 🙂

            Jake,I agree with what you said about TFTW .. 🙂

          • onuat,
            what is the word after WWWH? maybe you should read the poem again that word might have to do with the clue or maybe WWWH is not the entire clue, that Fenn is a crafty one.

          • I get it Count, so you start WWWH and take it to the source. 🙂
            I little like my solve..I start above the canyon at WWWH and take it down the canyon to the bend( like Into says”sideways”) in the trail,where I am now facing the ” waters high”. 🙂 All in the water(s)…Imo.

  38. jake,
    i have read the book but since the poem was published in 2010 in TTOTC and TFTW wasn’t published until 2013. What you are saying is that possible clue wouldn’t be sovleable for 3 years. like Fenn says all you need is the poem but the books help.

    • No, I am not saying that because I never read TTOTC. There may be some reference to a place where he had walked a distance that he could handle when he was younger in TTOTC. There is a clear reference in tftw where this is & obviously it relate back to the poem.

        • It’s to late for that now. I have booked my trip already & besides I don’t think I need any info in that book. After my trip next month if I do not find TC, I will buy the book then for a couple reasons, not just the TC.

          • good luck with your search and Fenn said all you need is the poem. if you are not having fun, being safe or laughing over adversity dont search.

          • Jake –

            Remember our last fallen friend here – MrMagica – I think he has a good chance of having the correct solve.

            But there is a long way and a short way. Not on the ground (that’s another story)

            But if you just go by the poem – which is possible – I don’t think you will find the TC. It is not the way Forrest set this up………. the long way is to put things together in the book.

            Have a nice vacation…………

          • I do not mean any disrespect, I am a newbie here. I have been trying to keep up but four or so years of posts is not going to happen in a few months. What happened to MrMagica?

          • Jake-
            Bear in mind, this IS a place for the meek, so please don’t come back a sore loser. Fenn has humbled all of us. I have bought TTOTC twice myself, but it’s not even a good-read. Try comparing it to the best- written book on fly fishing by Norman MacLean
            Let’s tell Fenn we would like the next printing of TTOTC done on paper that accepts highlighter and margin notes better

          • 9clue, My next process of elimination may be just that. I have already visualized not finding TC about a thousand times. Although it is not real life, I do feel as though I have nothing to lose, therefore the fall of failure would be handled in a way of more respect to most everyone here & Fenn rather than discontentment.

          • Well Jake –

            MrMagica insisted on saying he had the poem solved and someone either took the TC or his missed something… He didn’t add – that was just his opinion – so he’s not here anymore.

          • Unfortunately some people put the blame somewhere else. It’s never there fault of course. If I don’t find TC it will be nobodies fault but my own. I am willing to live up to that. Besides this will be my forth search & only blame myself for that. We should be responsible people not going beyond are means. You have to be realistic as well. Failure is a part of life. You cannot have success without Failure.

          • Jake-Well Said! I have not found “Indulgence”, but brought back treasures on all 10 of my quests of defeat. Did I start weeping saying “See, I knew I should not have ate the whole box of those Stupid O’s this morning”? Nope… got up and dusted myself off, reminded myself it was not gonna be easy, showered, then sat back down with the poem to analyze what went wrong to go onto my next title round with her. Good Luck All.

          • Q, We are all different & special in our own ways. What other people know, I don’t know. What I know maybe other people don’t know. This is why we are here. Because nobody knows it all. It has to be a collaboration to succeed with information.

      • jake,
        wow you are right there is something like that in the book but i wont give it away since you havent read it yet heres a clue it has to do with the cover of the book but please try to use it as a subtle clue or run there becase its to far to walk and look for yourself lots of people on this blog have.

          • Jake,

            How do you know he is referring to YOU walking?

            I’m just saying – wouldn’t it be a shame if he meant that water can’t walk any distance, but it can run?

            Not an opinion, but an one must consider it as a possibility.

            Scott W.

          • This is true Q, I have thought about this from the physcic story? Please refresh memory. I think you could float by TC which is why you would have to look quickly down. You may go right past it in a blink of an eye.
            I consider many possibilities but I do reject many that refer to whether or not an 80 year old man was capable of doing.
            I am wondering if you Q had read TFTW?
            There is a clear reference to where this place is. It puts a big fat X on the map. IMO
            I have read this book & laughed & cried. Great read, great ill’s & pics. When you cry when laughing, that’s the best. There is at least one chapter in this book that has made me a better person. My mom knows this now.

          • I guess you could also run a river, float a river, paddle a river, drive a river, etc.

            But in this case, perhaps he is saying that you don’t walk the river (or creek).

            I still like the idea that water runs but it doesn’t walk. IMO.

            Oh the possibilities! If only I could figure it out.

            Scott W.

          • Jake,

            You wrote:

            ” I think you could float by TC which is why you would have to look quickly down. You may go right past it in a blink of an eye.”

            The very first time I read the poem I was convinced it was submerged and the only way to locate it was by a boat of some sort.

            However, I also know how powerful water is. IMO, a submerged chest weighing 42 pounds would be lost forever after the first flash flood. In addition, it would be difficult to have your bones found on top of the chest 1000 years from know if it were under water.

            So – my conclusion is that it is not submerged. (IMO, of course). BUT – it doesn’t mean that you don’t have to be in the “running” water to see the blaze.

            Just thoughts.

            Scott W.

          • Very nice Q, I like the way you think, for now anyway. Many including Dal think the same flood scenario. I still think Fenn thought this out before he put TC in the water. As far as the bones would go, well I look at them as ashes in the flow. They would certainly be scattered throughout his chosen area. Now that being said, you have a good point here because I think Fenn said to leave my bones or something to that effect?

          • jake faulker another reason we don’t think Fenn would hid it in water. water levels to ponds, lakes, and streams can be effected by so many variables. also i don’t think Fenn would want a child going in water that wasn’t safe and having to use underwater gear is not something most people have the use of or knowledge of. the clues Mr Fenn have given have been given to correct a problems like people digging in cemeteries or in a structure.

          • I believe ff just said at his book signing on Sep 17 2015 he could come up with a thousand reasons why he dis not put it in water. It may be close but not in , as it may be close to the top of a mountain but not on it comment. Look it up. IMO he is an archaologist and would not leave it In any place it could be washed away!

          • Someone has been in the same boat you are in brother. Trying to help you here and I think you are headed where that person has already looked. It is a long road after you discover the key to the chest. If you think I am misleading you, then so be it. It is certainly not in water, because water in the Rockies is different. You get to a pond or lake it is dried up. You come to a stream or river, dependant upon time of year it is dried up, low, or raging flood with runoff from snow. Would ff be so wise to write such and intricate poem, then leave it where water could either spill it, sweep it away, or ruin it’s Patina? I believe you may be close but not in water… IMO

          • Jake –

            You wrote:

            “So Q. Have you read TFTW?”

            Yes, but not in a very long time. I am trying to stay a poem purist. Doing so is extremely difficult though. 🙂

            I doing my best to stick with the poem, common sense and geography.


          • jake faulker maybe a newbie but you drop hints/ideas like a true blogger. why dont people just say where something is or what something is? why all the mysterious answers and question. shoot

          • One of my main motives for this is to try to jog peoples memories & experiences. Most of us forget what it was like to be a child. Some of us would like to forget that part of our lives all together. Some of us would also like to relive that experience again.

          • I don’t believe Fenn mentioned nine mile hole in the Preface. Your getting close though. Maybe you should blow the dust off the cover & give it another look.
            I don’t want you to think I am dissing you, but you said you read the book. I know I am getting old but certain things do stick in my mind.

          • Jake –

            Quiz time is over.

            Nine mile hole was mentioned in both books. I didn’t realize you were referring to Baker’s Hole – although I should have with the huge hint you gave me with _______ dozen.

            Are we done with the test now?

            Scott W.

  39. To OS – an explanation:

    OS – the previous nine clues closed before I found the reference to the book I read 40 years ago.

    You wrote:

    “Another TFTW anomaly came to mind when q1erty2 mentioned “an one” twice in one post on Sept. 14. I asked about it but got no response. On pg 238 Fenn wrote: “I … nailed an one-hundred dollar bill …” Are there customs or rules about this “an one” thing?”

    I saw the “an one-hundred dollar bill” sentence as well, and it immediately reminded me of a novel I was forced to read in school. In the novel, was the use of “an one” multiple times. It drove me crazy!

    Well, I finally found the title of that book. I’m not saying it has anything to do with the chase at all. I just thought I should provide an explanation.

    The name of the novel was, “The Good Earth”.

    Here are some examples of the use of “an one” in that novel.

    …but still he knew the man was faithful as a good dog is faithful to its master, and it was relief to speak what he thought to such an one.

    ….there must be one far higher than the daughter of such an one as Ching,

    She was such an one to arrange a matter like that.

    I’m actually amazed that that one book stayed with me for so many years. I can honestly say that I am not an one to remember such things on a regular basis.

    Scott W.

    • Just skimming by and found your answer to my ‘an one’ question. Not TTOTC helpful IMO, but interesting. Thanks.

      • Oops, phone interruption …

        …. and so nice of you to go to the trouble to answer so fully. Bet it brought back interesting memories.

      • Well, while Fins-up-on was answering the question, I was “dusting off” the book. I posted above but about 10 minutes late.

        The book is back on the shelf now as there is nothing in it I feel useful in discerning the location of the chest. Not even the map.

        FYI – “I feel” = IMO

        Scott W

  40. Here is some BREAKING NEWS

    I.m sure Forrest will be coming out with this in the next few days………. to even the playing field. It was so nice of Mindy to post this………..

    Senior Member
    Posts: 276
    Threads: 18
    Joined: Aug 2014
    Reputation: 0

    RE: If….
    I asked if I should concentrate on just the poem and discount the photos and drawings. He answered it would not be wise to discount the drawings or photos or anything else in the book.


      • Jake – the IF just started the name of the thread…….

        This is for real……..and I am so happy that now we can all get on without arguing a very important fact…….. the book has clues. I was getting pretty darn sick of it and I am sure Forrest was too. I will never speak of it again.

        Thank you Forrest Fenn !

      • Jake-
        Wouldn’t it be funny if you were the one person to go to Cooper’s and find the TC hiding behind a tree ?

        here’s a quote and link to their page:

        “The record brown trout was caught on the Rio Chama below El Vado Dam by G. T. Colgrove of Decatur, Texas, on July 8, 1946.
        It is the largest River Run Brown Trout ever caught in New Mexico. It weighed 20.5 pounds, was 35.5 inches long, and had a 21 inch girth. It is now displayed in our store.”!the-record-trout/c2318

        The note says “please do not touch” … I’m thinking maybe they should bolt a plexiglass case over top of it

      • Well, since Mindy is so awesome and smart maybe she is one of Forrests’ conduits for trickling subtle hints… I would not discount anything Mindy says… Imho

    • Operative word is “or”. I’m a software guy and there is a huge difference between “and” and “or”. Perhaps this is why it took him so long to reply to her question.

      I don’t buy it since he already commented about the illustrations.

      Scott W.

    • Sure would like to see the e-mail of this exchange. Mindy, not doubting anything… I’m just a tangible type.
      At this point in time, this reminds me of … it would be unwise to discount them, when he was asked about words in the poem.

      Is this late breaking news? or maybe just the same answer to… when a person asks a question they expect an answer, so I give them one.

      We know there is information in the book… call that what you like, Clues, hints, Fluffernutter… we have heard, all you need is the poem… book for reference… GE / map. We have been told clues sprinkled in the book and hints are not deliberate to aid a seeker. We have been told there are 9 clues in the poem and the poem tells of hints.

      Personally, when you add all the comments, statements, Q&A’s e-mails, book poem etc. The one thing I see is… Fenn is not going to tell you something that is or is not a clue that will assist / aide a searcher.

      Drum roll please…imo.

        • Thanks Mindy I believe this and my solve showsthis to be true the photos and drawings help confirm your location is correct

      • I don’t think it’s exactly breaking news, although I just got the email reply last week. I asked something like (It’s too early to go back through a week of emails to find it, but my question was short and the reply was even shorter), “So, Forrest, are you saying the hints sprinkled throughout the book are solely in the words? Should I discount the photos and drawings?”

        He answered something like, “It would be unwise to discount anything, Mindy,” or “You should not discount anything, Mindy.”

        I’ll find the exact words when I wake up…

        • And I don’t think it’s something he already hasn’t intimated before…don’t discount any word, photo or drawing. Although they won’t lead you to the chest, they might be subtle confirmations that you’re in the right place.

        • Oh, Thanks for the clarification. It sounds genuine & makes sense not to discount anything in the book(s?) I have been calling info in the book reference instead of clues or hints. Some things in the book appear to reference things in the poem IMO.

        • Hey Mindy,
          This is what was posted as you know:
          RE: If….
          I asked if I should concentrate on just the poem and discount the photos and drawings. He answered it would not be wise to discount the drawings or photos or anything else in the book.

          Same premise of what you just stated in the post above, yet lacking words “Drawings and Photos.” It would be great if you could find the e-mail exchange and let the search community chew you up and spi… I mean help us to what was said. lol

          You know it will happen, but your a big girl and can take it… insert smiley face.

          • First, I need to give the context of the emails that led up to this one.

            I’d been going back and forth with him for a couple weeks before this email solely about the drawings and pictures.

            I finally phrased the question in a way I thought would make it at least a little more difficult to answer ambiguously.

            My question: So, Forrest, are you saying that the hints sprinkled throughout the book are solely in the words? Are you saying we should discount the drawings and photos?”

            His reply, “No, Mindy, you should not discount anything in the book.”

            It has been over a week since I looked at the original email. Last night I paraphrased and earlier this morning I paraphrased, but have since gone back and looked at the email.

            The point is anything in the book may be useful, including drawings and photos.

          • Mindy, I owe you an apology. I apologize for my comments yesterday. Sometimes I don’t think things through before I type. You have some very good insight & info here. Thanks, Jake

          • Mindy. Yes the book is useful. I asked only for the fact I recall fenn saying the illustrations in the book were done by another… So before I go searching back 3 years of comments I was just hoping you could save me some time… So before I pull out my microscope I was just wondering if fenn used the words photo and drawing.

            Take all the time you need… I’m in no hurry or attempting to be pushy… Just curious, has you put it out there for all of us to read.

          • I n that particular email, no.

            My theory is that Forrest may have added to the drawings subtle hints after Polt drew them. But that is just my opinion.

  41. Off topic–but hey dal are you aware that your email is sending an automatic response from mailer-daemon that says “sorry I’m not going to deliver this mail. This is permanent. I give up” or something to that almost exact effect? What’s the deal?

    • Well, since there is text associated it can only be four things.

      A hack
      The email was not delivered to Dal, but to a similar email address.
      Dal has given up
      Dal has gone over the deep end

      Dal will never give up, and if he did, he wouldn’t have it as an auto-response. We just eliminated one of the possibilities.



  42. In the Thrill of the Chase book and in the chapter Dancing with the Millennium, I noticed that Fenn references Millay’s poem 2nd Fig and it reads “Safe upon the solid rock the ugly houses stand: Come and see my shining palace built upon the sand!” Fenn says that the “poem tells my (his) story best and that’s where I’m most comfortable. He also hints at Millay’s other poem on page 147 where it reads “If he knows everything about me he’s pretty busy lighting candles, some of them on both ends.” Millay also wrote Night Wood. In that same chapter, he talks about his bells and Millay also wrote about the Lamp and Bell. Could these POSSIBLY hints support a clue? I remember reading that hints were SPRINKLED throughout the book.

    • Rose,

      I can say that what you describe is a good sprinkling and a grat observation.

      I will have to dust off TTOTC and lok for myself.

      Thanks for sharing,

      Scott W.

      • Of Edna Vincent St. Vincent Millay, I appreciate that she “paid tribute to her mother’s sacrifices that enabled the young girl to have the gifts of music & poetry — the all-important clothing of mind and heart.”

    • Millay died at her home on October 19, 1950. She had fallen down stairs and was found approximately eight hours after her death. Her physician reported that she had suffered a heart attack following a coronary occlusion. She was 58 years old.

      My uncle died much the same way. Collapsed in the bathroom, body discovered hours later. Cherish everyday, you never know when your last moment will be; it could come In the next minute.

      • I am with you there Doug and sure ff will agree… that is why this Chase came about …. health issues. If we have our health we are rich!!!! I am in the Chase for the Thrill… I hope someone else gets it first but ff is kind enough to let me know I was right.

  43. Hello searchers;
    BigSkip here. New to the search and thoroughly enjoying all posted comments. Question to the experienced folks: I recall either reading or hearing that ff hid his personal possessions as a kid while on a fishing outing only to return sometime later to find them intact. FF has also indicated, as I recall, he has known of his special TC location for many years on which the poem is based. Have the two places ever been linked?
    Thanks and good luck

    • I think I’ve heard that before but NOT sure of specifics. Forrest is mostly known as a prankster, in this one story they tell around here I guess f roped a bull to his car bumper the bull takes off running with car sliding all the way down the embankment through $&@t into the river. Folks around here know better than I’ve heard it told I thinks in TFTW.

      • Ha dude your story is way off, ’twas a Buffalo but thanks for bringing that up. I think it has something to do with the home of Brown. Remember the George Daubich story, Forrest collects skulls out in dig sky territory. I think big sky is referring to Cody. He says the slaughtered 82 Buffalos east of Yellowstone?? Anyway hoB is buffalo, basically put in below Yellowstone.

    • Bigskip,

      Try looking at the “Daily Beast”

      “Later the family moved from the Fishing Bridge to a campsite in West Yellowstone, which has its own special resonance for treasure seekers. In “Ramblings and Rumblings,” Fenn describes “a secret location” where the family gear was stashed during the off-season. “We just drove the car out into the forest about half a mile, and unloaded everything,” Fenn writes—and it was always there when they returned.”

    • BigSkip, welcome to the blogosphere – are you staying on or passing thru? Special amenities are available for permanent residents.
      Kidding. Welcome.

      Fenn’s family stashed their fishing gear in the same place every year as they were leaving Yellowstone. Searchers have looked for it but Fenn has never disclosed the location on the blogs that I can remember (I’ve been here 2+ yrs)
      That info is not in the books.

  44. Yellowstone, the sky and Forrest Fenn will always share a bounty of cherished & incredible memories; some shared…some not. It’s the here and now however, which appear to be where he is the most settled.

    After having read hundreds of pages; enjoying so many Famliy Fenn adventures from yesterday and today; I ‘still’ can’t resolve myself visualizing Forrest choosing his final resting place, or placing a TC in any location other than the State of…New Mexico.

    It’s home; and I do believe it’s that simple ~

    Holy Toledo! Take that ride down a not too bright canyon, and for gosh sakes; don’t limit your imagination when it comes to..Brown!

    There’s a Battle to be won – Let the stars, a good book, and # your guide.

  45. I didn’t realize this before, but on page 210 of Too Far To Walk, FF mentions that he “stopped at the little town of Lander, Wyoming. The airport had a short runway but I landed all right, and rented a car. The Avis attendant was a 14 year-old boy. We became quick friends and he took me out on the Middle Fork of the Popo Agie River that ran through town and out across the fertile ranch land. Both of us found arrowheads. ….. Then FF says, I don’t remember any four days that I enjoyed more.” Sounds like FF had a great time in Lander. Has anyone searched this area?

    • Also on same page he says “The next day I took off and headed north again, looking for another adventure. In Cody, Wyoming, I visited the Buffalo Bill Center of the West. A few years later I became a trustee of that great museum. I’m bragging when I say that everyone should go there ON THERE WAY TO YELLOWSTONE, which is 54 miles west.” On the facing page there is a picture of his wife & daughters. I find it interesting he is implying that you go to Yellowstone.

  46. Yikes….this is so telling… Nah, this can’t be the part of the solution. No way!
    The Middle Fork Popo Agie, also called the Popo Agie, is the most often floated of the three branches. The upper section in Sinks Canyon State Park is a tough Class V and to my knowledge has not been floated. It is a continuous rock garden and boulder field with a good drop in elevation and fast current. There are many places that contain strainers and overhanging trees. It is suitable for expert kayakers only. You can scout most of it from W-131, which may be reached by turning west on Fifth Street in Lander. About seven miles from town you enter the state park and go by the “Rise” and “Sinks”. The pavement ends at mile #9 and a couple of miles further you cross the river on the road to Louis Lake.

    • Little Popo Agei was mentioned in a video by Forrest Fenn. I dont know what the middle fork of the river means. Some of this stuff isn’t easy. I think he said his Grandaughter was interning there.

      • @Minnesela you said you didn’t know what middle fork means? sometimes rivers have several branches or side streams with same names and can be called North Fork, South Fork, West and East etc. and the fork in the middle is the middle fork. There could be a south fork of the north fork of the middle fork too, IMO FYI and hope this helps if what you were saying…

    • I never went, but this is actually the first place I considered. This is where I would have hid it:

      Some people have checked there, but who knows how thoroughly:

      The reason I chose this place is a little embarrassing 🙂 It goes like this. Have you ever heard the story about the hidden treasure in Sinks Canyon, Wyoming? The one where there’s clues to find it and the main clue is a conspicuously capitalized word?

      Nope, not that one. This other one:

      The story talks about a treasure hidden in Sinks Canyon by Butch Cassidy, and the main clue was that he capitalized Victory in a letter. V in Morse Code is …_

      Well, you guessed it, B in Morse Code is the opposite _…

      It’s a fiction story self-published in 2008. I was amazed and started wondering if this was a pseudonym for Forrest and that he hid this book out there wondering if anyone would find it. I was wondering if I had accidentally stumbled upon a story no one else had.

      My interpretation for the poem involved you being water travelling through the sinks underground and coming up at the Rise into the sunlight, the blaze. It was quite poetic 🙂

      I also discovered caves in Sinks Canyon:

      Though, I think this would fit into his mine exclusion.

      I’m telling ya, I had this thing all planned out.

      I abandoned it for another solve, but if any of this helps best of luck. Fortune and glory, kid. You keep the fortune, let me share the glory.

      • Jeremy,
        Great links, thanks for sharing. Do you know why the google book link states ” by Milo Grant” and on the page “Copyright…. by R.L Newman”

        I had this as one of my attempts at solving the poem but had not run across this info. Thanks again and glory to be shared if the unlikely happens and I solve the poem ;^)

        • I think Google just screwed up (they probably auto generate that info). Poking around Amazon I became reasonably convinced that they guy isn’t actually Forrest Fenn 🙂 Still a pretty amazing coincidence though.

    • Thank you to everyone that pitched in on the Landers home of Brown suggestion. The take it into the canyon down also made sense. It was one of those moments when I picked up the book and things started to connect. When I look at the map and reference the book, Landers sounds like a good start, but until all the other pieces are put into place, we don’t know. Bear what do you see? I see a …. looking at me.

  47. This reminds me of that picture that was photoshopped with the hat floating above FF’s head and a bear peaking it’s head above the water in the background. This also reminds me of planning (rise and sink) that needs to be done as part of searching. It also has the wonderful number nine. The elevation seems like it within target. There’s also a waterfall in Popo Agie. IMO

    • Rose, like Colorado kid and others, I tried but failed to be able to complete a solve at Sinks Canyon. If you are working on a solution, the following may be of interest:

      “Popo Agie” is a Crow language phrase meaning “head waters” or “rushing river”. The Popo Agie River begins as three separate forks in the Popo Agie Wilderness Area of the Shoshone National Forest in the Wind River Mountains. The three forks converge and flow northeast to join the Little Wind River which flows north into the Bighorn River, the Yellowstone River, and eventually the Missouri River in Montana.

      The middle fork of the river also has a unique characteristic. Just west of Lander, Wyoming, the river disappears underground, sinking into a hole in the limestone rock of the canyon floor. video about this phenomenon:

      My notes:
      1.N.American tribes consider “headwaters” of a river very important spiritually. So do stream conservationists like FF.

      2. 3 branches of P.A. could be connection to F’s many references to ‘switches’ or branches of a river.

      3. Flows into the Bighorn River – terrific fly fishing; moreover, runs through the Crow Reservation where Sharpe painted; where Forrest and Peggy attended NA ceremonies culminating in F swimming the Big Horn River. (I can’t recall which sb or viginette Forrest told that story)

      4. Finally, the PA river becomes part of the Missouri River whihc Lewis and Clark followed to its inception with the corp of discovery looking for the water route to the Pacific Ocean.

  48. Sinks Canyon, Lander/Fort Brown area have been discussed a lot before and some have reported searches in that area. I reviewed maps of the area and failed to put together a workable solution. One of the things I didn’t like is that the whole area sit adjacent to a main road and is mostly all visible from that road.

    Subsequently I have been through the area while on another search and took a look around. Admittedly, I didn’t spent a lot of time there but didn’t see anything that looked like it fit well in a solve. Your results may vary.

    • …talk about hyperventilating, a while back I swear I thought I had nailed the Blaze.
      There is a Benchmark not far from Sinks, named after some guy that spoke to a burning bush.
      Anyway there are also a few caves up there, but when you really study the maps/begin to see horse & ATV trailers parked in places along the main road you realize, nobody is going up that far on foot.

  49. Im a little curious as to why the book vs poem discussion has gained momentum after this many years..Also, could someone please direct to me the quote saying codes or ciphers are not to be used.I’ve looked for this everywhere but can’t seem to find it.

    • Fins it comes and goes, like most topics. Here’s the no codes scrapbook.

      “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.” f

      • Goofy,
        I reviewed the list f mentioned and that you just sent. When I categorized the items he mentioned, math, US standard of measurements, codes etc. IMO he basically said, in sum, no Writings outside his written words. I will use his words, his fonts, his measurements etc.

        Food for thought.

        • uken2it, I agree it’s about words not math. I just listen to what he has told us. He’s said over and over not to over complicate, straight forward, no subterfuge, etc. just figure out what the words mean. He said to read the book then the poem then reread the book looking for subtle hints/clues. The poem has the clues, the book may help with the clues; but the poem is where the chest lies.

          He knows about guys like me that have lived/worked in the Rockies most of their lives. He knows how well the guides, and rangers, and people in general that live in the Rockies know the landscape. They climb mountains, ford rivers, tackle impossible terrain, and they do all that just for fun. So the chest is hidden from them.

          Because of the tremendously difficult task at hand; folks start reaching for straws and creating clues out of thin air. They use the book first then the poem; which will only lead to thousands of rabbit holes. When that is proven too difficult some come up with mathematical, mystical, encryption, and even religious solutions trying to avoid the difficulty of finding a 10 inch box using the words in the poem.

          Folks make a big mistake by associating simple with easy. As with many solutions in life the answer is simple but very difficult to achieve.

          All is just my opinion.

          • Goofy, I agree. Simple does not = easy. While many overrate the complexity, many others underrate Forrest’s intellect behind the poem.
            It would not surprise me if he has a perfect memory and broke codes for the military – IMO!! That’s how ff is able to hide meaning in plane/plain site as well as I/eye site, problably “blind” site/sight (hunters camo) as well.

            Off topic: Any chance you are able to re-link my posts with the email option? They show up here, but are not going to anyone’s mailboxes. I emailed you about it a while back. Thank you for your assistance.

      • Thank you, Goofy, and 42.I’m a little embarrassed I missed that tidbit in the scrapbook.HOLY CRAP! how did I miss that!? I never caught the no formula quote before.Hmmm

  50. BigSkip here:
    A thank you to Anna and Seeker for their info. And Anna, I am in “IT” for the duration.
    Thanks again

    • Cholly,

      I guess I am now a literalist and will allow for the possibility of other than transparent meanings and perhaps anagrams. That being said and in response to what you shared, warm waters stop at the ‘tap’.

    • @Cholly, thanks. Looks interesting. I may play around a bit with the code in honor of the vn pow’s. Who cares about the rules? I don’t. I use anything that I can understand…which is quite limiting:)

      Didn’t F throw away time, bump the curbs, and enjoy California rolls? I’ll bet he did plenty of fly-overs just for fun.

  51. IMO

    The following:

    Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.” f

    …, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions.”

    Well, what assists me to my location is first my car, then my feet, then…

    Then the remainder…
    :”although those things have been offered as positive solutions”
    That has a huge amount of ambiguity there!!! 🙂

      • I have a “key” to the poem that I use.
        It works quite well. So if this means I use codes, ciphers and formulas, then absolutely! I’m thinking, a drone might be helpful…
        But, again, it can’t carry me…

    • IMO,,The fact that he suggests the use of map and/or Google earth alongside the poem is quite telling of the fact that we have to treat the problem not only as an english poetry homework but as a geography and/or map reading Home Work as well…in my solve I used a map of an area as I tried to interpret the clues,,,,however there should be some external insight that a searcher should bring to the table in interpreting the clues like wwh,home of brown and most importantly ,yes most importantly the blaze..we can be sure of the need for such an external insight because the poem says “if you have been wise,and found the blaze”…hence besides poetry HW,besides geography/mapreading HW,,he may be expecting us to do another HW in bringing an external insight or wisdom,,maybe philosophy HW?or history HW?

      All in my humble IMO


  52. All the following is obviously my opinion otherwise I would have the chest. What if the first stanza is telling us that just as he went alone where he planted the treasure chest he also went alone “in there”? Alone in front of his computer, alone with the internet. That would make WWWH the world wide web. I know I am not the first one to come up with this idea, but it is possible just as any idea out there. If this were true that would make “take it in the canyon down” look in a map. ” Canyon down” not only would mean to actually go towards the canyon, but “look at a map”. This could be the actual beginning of the “boots on ground” search. I think these are the first two clues Forrest Fenn is telling us that we have gotten right, but since we do not know where physically we begin we have not searched in the right area. “Not far, but too far to walk”, would be my third and fourth clues. I have an idea as to what these are, but do not want to elaborate any further on those clues.I think to solve for all clues one needs to solve the actual beginning, a place, or area that should be in the poem. Once the person finds the actual place in the poem example: Taos, then the beginning of the poem starts making sense. This is my opinion only. Thank you. RC.

    • Although the Internet existed in 1988, the WWW did not. The browser, as we knoW it today wasn’t introduced until the 90’s.

      IMO, WWW does not refer to the Internet.

      Scott W.

      • WWWH has existed for about 100 years, but it is not the internet I speak of. As ff would say, go backand reread the poem again.

        • OK Kenny, I’ll bite. If it’s existed only about 100 years, it is unlikely something natural. So I’m guessing you think WWWH is something man-made?

          • There are hundreds of places in the Rockies WWWH though, so first youhave to go back and reread the poem to determine the starting point. Keeping in mind that said poem is linial.

          • Kenny-
            So you know the poem is “linial” because???
            There are many, many people who would disagree with that statement that you make sound like a fact..
            Please ensure that when you state something like “Keeping in mind that said poem is linial”, all who read that statement understand it is your opinion and not a statement of fact..Forrest never used the word “linial” when describing the poem, as far as I know.
            So “linial” is an interpretation of what he said…not a fact..nothing he actually said…
            It is important to get in the habit of making sure new searchers who read this blog know fact from opinion…otherwise they start reading all this material and take it as fact and when they don’t find the chest they blame it on Goofy because they read something on the blog and thought it was a fact…
            This is why we ask people to use phrases like “In my opinion…” or “I believe…” or “I think…” etc… when they share opinions…

          • I am so sorry Dal…. I am not an expert but I thought this site was where we discuss our opinions on the poem, the chest, and that he would have never placed it in water. I was not aware that I was supposed to put IMO behind all statement. My Sincere Apologies to all.

          • I assume you meant to type lineal or linear, but I think you mean sequential or in order. And yes, Mr. Fenn has said that it is. In any event, almost anything natural involving water has been around for more than 100 years, unless it’s something like Quake Lake and was formed from a geologic event. Not too many of those. That’s why I said your WWWH must be man-made.

          • To be fair, Dal, I think what Kenny meant was what FF has told us: the clues in the poem are in consecutive order. If we believe in this crazy treasure hunt at all, than I think we have to take the things FF says as fact. Interpreting what he says, ah, that’s another matter.

        • While Dal’s encouragement to be very careful about leaving something “in the record” that can be later taken as assumed fact is good…

          ….I understand the (probably inadvertent) substitution of “linear/lineal” for “sequential”.

          And the problem that could arise is the introduction of the idea of explicit distances (lineal).

          • I agree, perhaps my wording is misleading. Nobody is suing ff over his wording in the poem. What I am saying IMO is that he said the poem is straight forward. It is straight forward IMO. Lol. IMO I feel sorry for our future generations to come where everything is censored or restricted.

          • Although I can’t put my fingers on a link to the direct quote, I remember FF saying “contiguous” . I remember this because when I read it I wondered why he used THAT word instead on “consecutive”, which has a different meaning.

            The above is not a quote – just something I distinctly remember hearing. I will try to dig up the reference.

            However, here is what I think is a great description of how the two terms differ:

            A sheet of paper is contiguous: From any point on the paper you can arrive at any other point on the paper, without ever leaving the paper. If you tear the paper into two or three pieces, it is no longer contiguous: you can’t reach a spot on piece B from piece A.

            Then consider the numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. This is a series of consecutive whole numbers: there are no numbers missing in the series. If we instead have the numbers 1, 2, 5, we don’t have consecutive numbers anymore because there are numbers missing in the middle of the list.

            A contiguous thing can be linear, planar, spatial, or N-dimensional; as long as you can get from one point in the thing to any other point in the thing without leaving it, it is contiguous.

            Scott W

          • What I have as a quote, Scott, is “The clues are in consecutive order.” I don’t remember where that came from but I have it down in my notes in quotes.

          • Spoon,

            Perhaps he said both on different occasions, but I distinctly remember him using the word “contiguous” and I thought it an odd word to use knowing the difference from consecutive.

            Now I have to go find the reference, and it was probably in a video which will take me hours.

            Speaking of which, does anyone have a like to transcribed interviews and appearances that Fenn made? That sure would be helpful.

            Scott W.

          • Thanks for the links, Goofy; don’t see how I missed the Moby Dickens one.

            Here’s something that’s in conflict with the general information available. When, exactly did he hide the chest? I’ve heard 2009-2010 from many sources; however, in the video he clearly states:

            “It was 15 years from the time I got cancer, until the time I hid the treasure chest. Fifteen years.”

            That would put the hiding of the chest in 2003 (he stated many times he was diagnosed with cancer in 1988).

            Was that just a misstatement by Fenn? This one confuses me (or maybe it’s the rum). 🙂

          • Thanks for the links Goofy. I thought I had heard both words used but wasn’t positive. How do you have such quick access to the video info – Wow, what a memory you have or do you have everything written down about what Forrest said, when, and when? 🙂

          • “This worlds in trouble, I don’t need to tell you that”
            This statement from Moby Dickens interview was the most important one.
            I wish Fenn was running for President of USA.
            He has my vote.
            I will just write him in.

          • Scott,
            I think you may have hit the nail on the head. Both words seem exact. So lets put it to a test.

            Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk. Put in below the home of Brown… Consecutive, yes?

            Put in below the home of brown. Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk… Continuous, yes?

            Joe, Billy and Bob went to the canyon about 2 miles down. Which is below Mr. Browns cabin… Consecutive and Continuous?

          • Scott, my bad… ah heck. now everyone knows I can’t spell or even read my spell checker. lol remove wrong word. Thanks for catching that.

            I was going over Goofy’s suggestions just now and approx. 14.50 minutes in the second flick… fenn said… time I got cancer to the time I hid the treasure chest was 15 years… 15 years.

            I remember that comment, and the discussion about it. doing the math [ again ] that would put the hiding in 2003.
            1988+15. Yet I also recall something about a friend of fenn’s saying he saw the chest in_______ a later year. does anyone else remember that? and maybe fill in the rest. I thought at the time a searcher by John Brown brought up the friend. Goofy, do you recall this?

          • Joseph,

            I agree with your assessment. I remember when I first started this search, I couldn’t tell fact from fiction.

            I really wouldn’t call this a “censored” site. I would prefer using the term a “weeded” site. (no I’m not REFERring to Colorado) <– Hey! That was funny,

            We come here to collect and analyze data. When it is known that a specific comment cannot be backed up by a direct reference to something Fenn wrote or said, then it should be noted as such.

            IMO, of course. 🙂

            That's why I hang out here.

            Scott W.

          • Naught,

            I am with you on this one. Seeker just posted the same comment today as well.

            Either we all misunderstood what he said, or the chest wast hidden well before the book release. If the latter is true, then we need to be searching in places where someone a little younger than 79 might go.

            Do you have the time-stamp on the video available for this particular comment?

            Scott W.

          • Scott,

            About 14:40 in the video.

            I can’t say for certain if he misspoke about the 15 year span, because he seemed so specific in his statement.

            Later, he says he hid it when he was 79 or 80, and explained he was intentionally vague so people couldn’t discern distance from rental car records. That would put it at 2009-2010.

            Imagine if you knew where he was from a fly shop, hotel, or restaurant? Would that be an advantage?

          • Scott,
            Here is my paraphrase of something f said in this video regarding his age at the time he hid:
            My approximation of f said: that’s why I tell people I buried the, hid the treasure chest when I was 79 or 80 years old so. because I don’t want the exact date to be known, somebody to go check the rental car records and how many miles on the truck or the car and I don’t answer those kind of questions.

            thanks goofy for the recommendation. a lot of good information and those who do not watch it are missing out on some good info.

          • I think this is one of the times he reserves the right to be wrong…..

            There was a great deal of discussion about that at the time. It seems he clarified that but I don’t remember where. Anyway, it seems most were satisfied he just made a math error and he did hide the chest when he was 79 or 80.

          • Naught, I also picked up on the apparent date discrepancy of when the “treasure” was hidden and posited a partial solution to that in one of my early posts early this summer. In my mind, FF may have put “a part” of the trasure in his “secret spot” early on with a ransom note asking to have somone return it to him if found. Nobody found it by accident, so then he hid the rest of the treasure later and posted the poem in his book. I know that’s how I would have done it to ensure that the hiding spot was truly a hidden spot to casual lookers/hilkers/hunters – anyone who could “stumble upoon it” and yet, they would not know that perhaps within 200 feet of where they stood were millions of dollars worth of treasure.

            This is all pure speculation on my part and I have no idea if Forrest thinks like me, as I have never had the pleasure of meeting the man. Take it for what it’s worth.

          • CJinCA to answer your question I’ve built a couple databases. One is a simple database with information much like a bookkeeping program with information I deemed important and what the source is. And much like a bookkeeping program I can assign the information to categories etc. So I can run reports and pull out information.

            The other database is weighted with mostly information that can be converted and overlaid as GIS information on a topographical map. Combined with GIS and topographical information I can see on a map what happens when information is added or removed. For example removing everything below 5000 ft. and above 10200 ft. lets one see where the chest is or what is private vs. public property etc.

            I don’t want to become everyone’s research assistant simply because I don’t have the time. But the most important reason is, I feel, it’s important for each searcher to do the research and look or listen to the information first hand.

            For example I thought the Moby Dickens video had several interesting statements. But what folks picked out was his 15 year statement. I was surprised by that because I consider that “settled law”. He has said on many occasions when he got cancer and when he hid the chest so this was just an error he made talking, and when he hid it doesn’t get me closer to the chest. Interesting information but superfluous in my opinion.

            Anyway, the short answer to your question is yes I have information listed in a database. Sorry for getting carried away.

          • Thanks for the response Goofy. I’m amazed at your organizational skills! Most of my information is stored in my head as I have taken very few notes lately. I started to write a lot of notes in the very beginning when I first got the book and started following the blog but after I had an almost complete solution that I liked, I stopped writing every little thing down from the interviews, Q&As, scrapbooks, etc. that struck a cord with me. Now I look for “confirmers” to my solve, and I always seem to find some, probably just like everyone else. 🙂 Well, no more searching for me this year. I’ll be reading the book and poem over again a bazillion times and looking at a good map to see if the last bit of the puzzle becomes clear to me or, if I just need to move on. LOL

          • CJinCA,

            I never kept many quotes and such as well… most was all memory. After I completed my first solve is when I started examining those… and one, killed my solve as I could not make it fit no matter how I twisted it. There come a point to every fail solve when someone say… need to start over.

            And you just said it… You’ll be reading the poem over and over while winter sets in. That is the correct attitude IMO. I’m still working on my second complete solve. Now I’m checking everything to discredit it. And will be, over the winter as well.

            Yet even I fall for the bias of my own mind and thinking… The video i just saw is a good example as the first thing that popped was he wrote the poem after getting cancer and hid the chest 15 years later. As goofy said, this was seemingly settled, but that is the first thing that catch my attention. I think most do this and need to step back and see the whole picture again, not unlike the poem itself.

            When searchers do those fast assumptions, things happen and some jump the gun. IMO Mindy’s opinion of what she read in the email and posted is an example of hoping what fenn said is what each person “wants to hear” Some have jumped on the ban wagon of a cipher and just don’t listen or change their version of what fenn said in hope to make sense to there own thought process. A woman e-mailed fenn and his response was [ found in ff gets mail ] here’s a woman who is doing the math… So is there math involved?

            A few searcher used the term ” show the poem to a child” But yet, with many searchers looking for that quote, [ myself include ] not one have found it, yet it as been told as fact / quoted and influence searchers.

            I’m Looking at the poem with fresh eyes [ again ] they key IMO, [ no not the word that is key ] Is the first clues and exactly what that is “in the Poem” This has been the most direct commented part from fenn about the poem. So that is my goal for the winter… But I’ll bet an ice cold beer, some one will say… We were told the first clues is WWWH. I have not seen that either, The first clues importance? yes.

        • Kenny,

          I have no idea what you are talking about. I was addressing RC when he said:

          “Alone in front of his computer, alone with the internet. That would make WWWH the world wide web. ”

          Scott W

    • So many methods and approaches to the poem. It’s no wonder considering I have changed mine several times, speaking of which today my opinion is to stick to solving 2nd stanza, my only focus (till whenever I decide otherwise).
      Seriously This is refreshing to have this simple focus, minimal distractions, fractions, connections to Brown etc. this may be a totally wrong approach but give it a thought if you need to destress abit, IMO

    • RC,
      I like how you describe finding an actual location in the poem. Prior to solving wash, correct?

  53. This has nothing to do with 9 clues. Rocky Mountain National Park is up 20% over last year with visitors. Hmmm?

  54. If what I posted previously were true, then the home of Brown would be a brown square on Google as in a brown icon. That would make WWWH related to the home of Brown. This is my opinion. RC?

    • You are correct in your findings. Congrats on that. But you are four months behind me and ten searches. May not make sense now, but ff expected mistakes. He is very wise. I am here for the competiton standpoint. You are More Wise than Most…

      Congratulations on that.


    • RC,

      Google didn’t exist until September 4th, 1998, and Google maps didn’t exist until February 8th 2005.

      Further more, Google Earth wasn’t available until June 11th, 2011.

      So, for Fenn to indicate that a good map to use would be GE, how in the world could he have intended to reference it when he wrote his poem?

      IMO – the idea that GE might be a helpful tool came way after he finished the poem.


      • Scott… I see what you are saying but since Google was available before the poem came out you would in a sense still be able to Google Earth… Maybe he just updated his terminology to match the new technology… Imo

        • Spallies another way to look it good map verses Google earth is like i have a road atlas that is very good better now we have Google earth its even a BETTER map. They are both good maps.

        • Good catch – my mistake, but I disagree with the 2001 date. Perhaps there was something else termed as GE at the time.

          Google didn’t even acquire EarthViewer 3D, created by Keyhole, Inc, until 2004.

          The term GE wasn’t used until 2005, and it was nothing like it is today.

          Regardless, unless FF wrote or changed most of his poem after 2005, I still stand behind my assumption that his reference to GE as a good tool to use was after the fact.

          Scott W.

      • Maybe he embellished the time line. He said he embellishes 15%. So the 15 years might be the part that is embellished. He would have needed to do that if he did use www. as the location. He wants a keyword. So maybe that’s how you unlock it with a keyword.

  55. All,
    I thought I’d throw out there what IMO are good resources for searching for TC:
    The 9 consecutive clues in the poem.
    Additional hints that are “not deliberately placed to aid the searcher” in TTOTC.
    Satellite maps and paper maps.
    A knowledge of geography.
    (And, of course, a flashlight and protein bars, since sandwiches seem to disintegrate above 5000 feet. Oh, and I recently bought a protractor.)
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  56. I suspect stanza six tells where to start, a title perhaps. And after having explored the route so thoroughly, going back to stanza one, you will know it for the first time.


    WWWH looks like a row of mountains and a bridge, but we created that alpha shorthand, it may not be in Fenn’s lexicon at all. He might have intended different shorthand symbols … WARM = vertical wavy lines, WATERS = horizontal wavy lines, HALT = X.

  57. All below is IMO.

    Some people listened to the radio show

    and concluded Forrest was being sarcastic when he said Andy Briggs had ‘most of the puzzle figured out’. These people must have been straining to detect a level of sarcastic in the tone of Forrest’s voice. Perhaps this was because there wasn’t one.

    If Forrest was being sarcastic I think he would of said yeah ‘he’s got the WHOLE thing figured out’ chuckle chuckle. Forrest said MOST which is exactly what I’m saying.

    One contributor to this blog pointed out that I’m from England so it may be that I don’t understand sarcasm. Is the word ‘sarcasm’ in the English dictionary?


    The White Knight (Andrew Briggs)

    • White Knight
      Thanks for your efforts..Actually months back I warned people here that the Brits could be joining the chase soon and that they have a track record of finding treasure across the globe,,:)..
      Though I have not read your e book yet , except some analysis on forums,,,I was of the opinion of not resolving into ciphers ,,anyway wish you good luck,,by the way ,which state are you searching ?…just curious.


    • Andrew,

      You maintain you have a partial solution…some of us don’t buy it (me in particular). Most of us base this on the fact that Fenn said: “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f”

      We Americans have an expression: “The proof is in the pudding”. This is a shortened version of the (British I believe?) saying: from William Camden stated it in 1605 in Remaines of a Greater Worke, Concerning Britaine as “All the proofe of a pudding, is in the eating”,

      You seem to be comfortable in ignoring that he later said he wouldn’t be able to find the chest using your method. So you can speculate that Fenn didn’t chuckle like what some of us heard, or you can finish your cipher, go find the chest, and make the rest of us eat the crow pudding. Insisting that you are on to something won’t get most of us to buy your book or believe that you have superior knowledge.

      Some other pertinent sayings might be ” the balls in your court”, or “put up or shut up”.

      Good luck.

    • White knight,Your fantasy projection is on the rise this week, you are arrows pointing up my friend.I listened to the interview a few times and didn’t detect any sarcasam.In fact, Forrest seemed to back up exactly what you said,about having most of it figured out.Hmm?He also said to add your name to the list of ppl presumed to have figured out the clues.(crazy christ of the mines lady, and the guy who said the blaze and treasure had been removed, ect, ?).I’m not sure how I feel about this interview.It’s times like this I wish, Dal would give some imput.He was sitting at the poker table that day and got to witness facial expressions as the whole deal unfolded.He may have even been privy to more info during commercial break that us, the listener didn’t hear.Knight,I have enjoyed reading your posts, but I need more to go on before I buy the book.

      • @Finns up….I agree, Dal was there, was hoping he’d share his gut initial reaction to that conversation/line of questioning and his take on ff’s ‘poker face’ at the time, etc. etc….All I can digest is that ff said that he’d (ff) not be able to find the TC using Andrew’s method….so maybe the part about ‘some of it figured out’ has to do with other stuff Andy uses in his solve…..or the general location….IMO Happy Autumn everyone, how about those Fall Blaze(s)!

    • Hello White….I am actually attempting to help you, because the sooner you get back to the drawing board the sooner you can come up with the correct solution……Your First assumption is incorrect…..The map is a point to point treasure hunt…..How do I know this….I know this because Fenn said this in an interview, in so many words. So please do us a favor do your due diligence, and listen carefully this time, so we can put this cipher business to rest….I really don’t like to see people mislead…..

      • Betsy,

        This is a post you said minutes ago.
        “Hello White….Your first premise is incorrect…..this is a point to point treasure map….how do I know, because Fenn said so, I suggest you listen again, more carefully this time to his interviews. I don’t like to see people mislead…..” { because fenn said so}

        Now you said. “I know this because Fenn said this in an interview, ***in so many words.” ***

        So which is it? Fenn said; In so many words and you think this is what he meant? Or Fenn said… this is a point to point treasure map?

        I had not listen to the whole interview yet, only the part about Andrew in the beginning of that interview. I guess now I’ll have to listen through to see what you’re saying holds water.

        • Seeker,
          You have to think about what Fenn is saying to validate that this is a point to point treasure map….does he say it is a point to point treasure map, no he does not. you have to understand what a point to point Map is and understand how his statement validates this…..I am not going to just give this to you seeker….I told you where to go….to get this information. If I read this I would have found this by now, so that I would have the answer… want to spend all your time on semantic….go ahead, if you want answers do some research

          • Your right Betsy, I need to start doing research. I have been to lazy and just listen to all the others do the work for me. Maybe I should start with the Lewis and Clark cipher. By the way, that was a nice end run ya did… what fenn actually said, and what you thought he said.
            Are you in Politics?

        • Seeker, all you have to do is read Whites blog above….where he says that this is not a point to point hunt…this is how he justifies his use of ciphers. I am not talking about this interview…it was one done several years ago…..

      • …hold up there Bets, you forgot your IMO. I myself haven’t completely ruled out the X or * marks-the-spot theory. I was hoping for at least a hybrid of the two, where stanzas 1-4 read maplike point to point, then the last 2 stanzas form two lines which cross over the exact location. Here’s to hoping

    • Andrew, only Forrest knows exactly what he meant by what he said but I would point out that what he said could be applied to hundreds, if not thousands of different solutions that have been pursued by various folks over the last few years. My guess is that everyone who has written Forrest with a solution believes that they had it all or in part figured out. Even though countless people have come up with solutions to the puzzle, no one has produced the chest. What Forrest didn’t explicitly say is that you have the puzzle figured out correctly–which I think is an important qualifier that was missing from the radio interview. I understand why you might have heard it differently, but unless or until you produce the goods, I don’t think his true meaning can possibly be determined.

  58. Z, no worries, it’s all good. Thanks for clarifying and your kindness; really do wish you the best.

    It’s been interesting lately as others are able to bring up complex coding and are applauded. Heck, I applaud them. But if I bring up simple alpha-numeric A=1…Z=26 wich is neither cypher nor encoding i get ripped for calling Fenn a lier regarding his SB 62 comments.

    I’m out of energy to engage in that dialogue. Anything I throw on the table here is my opinion and simply to present ideas.

  59. Question about: “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,”
    Is “wise” refering to the fact you have followed the previous clues?
    Or, that you have prior knowledge to what the “blaze” looks like and will know it when you see it?

  60. This next clue is , in my opinion, where one starts specifically on land, and not on the poem. “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down your quest to cease”. If one looks quickly down what does one see? Does anybody see it? Remember the end is the beginning,and the beginning is the end. I see all this like a word game in a game. Once the person knows where to finish in the poem, she, or he, will know where to start. We all thinking where we start in the poem, but where do we finish? I think we should be thinking where on land we finish the search, and that’s where we begin it. This is all an honest opinion. RC.

    • RC,
      Could you clarify what you are saying. My reading of this is, the poem shows you how to get to / or describes the blaze, and if found, now starts how to find the location of the chest still using the other part of the poem.

      SIGNHOLDER, Why does there have to be one meaning? Can an object that is the blaze be give in the poem, and when you follow the clues, you wisely found that object?.

    • RC,
      You said: ” Remember the end is the beginning,and the beginning is the end…and I think we should be thinking where on land we finish the search, and that’s where we begin it..”

      It sounds like you’re saying the physical path is a circle.

      If this is the case what would be learned from that if the end game is at the beginning? Why don’t we just search the place referred to by the first clue and cut to the Chase?

      I’m reminded of the question at the Moby Dickens Book Store event when Fenn was asked if the searcher following the clues would need to “double back” (paraphrasing). Fenn said no.

      IMO traveling around in a circle is the same as doubling back.

      • Colokid,

        Double back… is retracing, a circle it just that. Would you agree? But you said; “If this is the case what would be learned from that if the end game is at the beginning?

        That is a good question. Should the starting point be where we need to be to find the chest, are the other “physical” places a must know as in understanding, or places we need to travel to understand why the first clues is so important to it’s significance?

        Fenn said no, to double back… he also said on MW’s to a question using the word scant… why do I feel I’m talking in circles. Hint? Of course it’s all how each of us read into what is said. Maybe this is something I’m missing [ you know what I mean by that ] and this is why I read the blogs… someone always kick start my stagnant braincell.

        Dang, where is my chalk board eraser…

  61. The following is my opinion,and only my opinion only.To those who don’t understand what I am saying. Mr. Fenn has always said that we have to start at the beginning. Do we agree? Now what does that mean. It may mean different things for different people, but for me it means to start at the beginning of the poem with the first stanza. I for one think the first stanza points out to the beginning of the search,and to the end of the search because once a person, in my opinion, knows where the actual physical search begins he,or she will not have to search anymore, and hence it is the end of the search. It is a fact that the clues have to be followed contiguously, but Mr. Fenn has not said,to my knowledge, that to solve the clues you have to solve them in order. Am I right or wrong? Well if I read the poem the first stanza does not tell me anything on its own, but when I keep on reading, and keep analyzing the poem, clues start to make sense, although they are not easy to understand because I do not have a simple way of thinking like Mr. Fenn , but rather like to find a scientific way about it. And that’s how most of us think, I think. We tend to make simple stuff into algebraic equations because that’s how the educational system works, in my opinion. Now I may be wrong about what I am posting but at least I am using only the poem as my reference basis. RC.

    • RC,
      I agree that you need to solve the first clue first. I would agree that it’s “POSSIBLE” that you can solve each individual clue by itself (so possibily out of order) but unlikely. He has warned us many times about trying to figure out HOB or the blaze without figuring out the first clue. Regardless, I would still think you need to follow the clues on the ground in order without coming back to the beginning.

      I personally think his insistance that we need to figure the first clue first tells us that this clue anchors the hunt physically to a precise location. IMO, without that anchor you don’t stand a chance of recognizing the remaining places.

      I guess I’m still trying to understand. Are you suggesting that you double back in the poem or on the ground?

    • You wrote that the first stanza doesn’t tell you anything on its own. I have a whole list of what the first stanza might be telling us.

      For one, it might say that he has been there alone and also with his treasures. – at least twice (couple, double, two, …).

      It tells me it is a place where he can keep his treasure secret (safe) – a cache, hideout, stash, etc.

      So I might say that he went into Double Hideout creek. Or Double Cache Mine (I know, not a mine).

      Anyway, I can force fit a lot into the first stanza if I want to.

      Some say that the first stanza refers to a church, particularly his wedding day.

      Scott W.

      • Scott, what I said was that the 1st stanza did not tell me anything on its own. I never said it did not tell you anything. RC.

  62. Seeker, I don’t know how to state this any more clearly…..I am actually trying to help and prove an important point….if you go to one of Fenns earlier interviews I think it was at Moby Dickens, Fenn was asked a series of questions. if you understand what a point to point map is then you will know the question he answers that verifies this…..Peace

  63. All,

    In the below 10-22-13 video Forrest says at some point that a searcher could find the treasure with just the first three clues and IMO the first three clues are the first three sentences ending with “Put in below the home of Brown”

    If this is the case and I believe it to be, coupled with my opinion that home of Brown is the resting place of the TC, I strongly feel that FF’s comment that some people have gotten the first two clues correct yet went past the other seven without knowing it (some possibly within 200ft) to be accurate because they were searching for a home of Brown not thinking that the HOB might be the actuate resting place of the chest and went right past a whole lotta meek.

    If my opinion or thoughts are accurate then if we are to Begin it at WWWH and take it in the canyon not far but too far to walk, then we should be searching for no place for the meek because above that should be the blaze and the HOB. Some may say this puts the clues out or order but it does not, we are still putting in Below the HOB and paddling up our creek looking for a Blaze.

    Good luck all, it about to get cold in the wood.


    • That makes sense to me… it also makes sense to me that the Brown that it speaks of could be the copper of the box. Patinated to a dark brown.

      • @Nate

        it does make “sense” it does not confirm my opinion but definitely lends it some credibility.

        Below is an excerpt from MW blog at the following link:

        Dear Mr. Fenn

        Since you have mentioned “olives” a number of times, I wondered if you had visited The Olive Branch (IL) dig site. It was a fascinating read for me, learning both about the Dalton people’s site along the Mississippi in Southern Illinois and the New Madrid Fault. I continue to learn at least something new on a daily basis while on this journey.

        Interestingly, while researching The Olive Branch site, I learned about “The Fenn Clovis Cache” that I believe you purchased in 1988. I looked at photos of some of the amazing (56) stone artifacts, learning also that they are from an unknown (field) site near the borders of Utah, Idaho and Wyoming. Is the Fenn Cache currently on display anywhere?

        I was going to try to sneak in your “how deep is a hole?” question also, but I will refrain, as perhaps I understand why you asked it.

        As always, thank you.

        Good questions Ellen.
        I have not visited the Olive Branch site but I have several friends who have excavated there.

        How I obtained the Fenn Cache maybe of interest to you. I was called by a local trader to look at the 56 large Clovis projectiles and preforms. They were affixed to a wooden frame. At first glance I told myself that they were too good to be real and I was about to reject them when I noticed the copper wire that held them to the frame was heavily patinated. I knew from my days casting art bronze that it takes many years for copper to reach that dark brown color, not unlike the color of an old penny. So I asked to take the pieces overnight for study.

        Upon high power magnification I discovered that each piece had minute traces of red ocher (hematite) in the flake scars, and was pretty sure that the pigment came from the Sunrise Red Ocher mine in Wyoming, a known Clovis site.

        Further inspection revealed that amber mastic was present in the flutes of three obsidian points. It had been used to attach the projectiles to atlatl dart shafts.

        That did it for me and I purchased the collection, which has since been published in numerous stories related to early man in North America. A book has been written about the collection and it has been widely exhibited at shows. It is now being studied at Texas A & M University.f

        This excerpt led me to believe that since the chest is made of bronze and is brown in color that it is possible that when the poem says “Put in below the home of Brown” IMO it means put in below (elevation or south of) the TC or indulgence.

        As a former military analyst I always attempt to “vet” anyone else’s suggestions, opinions and or solves and I highly suggest people do the same with mine and be kind or quiet when you disagree as FF said you don’t want to interrupt someone when they are making a mistake.


    • Seannm,
      I like the scenario that you laid out here for a couple of reasons but I’m not sure about the quote you are alluding to.

      Do you have a time stamp on the statement about “finding the treasure with just the first three clues” so i don’t have to wad back through the whole interview for the 10th time?

  64. Colokid,

    I guess I could do the work for you and also give you my solve if you like (wink).

    time stamp is at 34:45

    FF states: “that if a person reads the poem over and over and were able to decipher the first few clues in the poem they can find the treasure chest. It may not be easy but it certainly isn’t impossible.

    so again we are back at what is a clue?

    IMO a clue to FF is a sentence, so therefore the first “few” clues would end at “Put in below the home of Brown”


    • Thanks for the time stamp, and i see you quoted that now. but a ‘few’ may be more than three. The question I have is if the first clue is so important/hardest why can’t anyone, so far that we know, can’t get pass the first two clues.

      • You also assume that the first sentence is the first clue…Consecutive could easily mean stanza 5, 6, 1, 2, 3, 4. “A few” is a term with a fair amount of latitude, especially in this game.

        • Hank,
          The 561234, is and has been interesting to think about. Why place a question in a poem and give an answer as well. Some see that as fenn’s life journey and exploring and age is catching up. I can as well. Some see that stanza as the starting point or know where to start. Me as well.
          Some say it’s just a stanza with no clues, just a filler.

          Could the usage Tired and Weak be the beginning? I have heard folks say tired is the car tires he drove to the spot. I’m not going to agree to that. But can it mean wheel. and can weak mean; illness or weak in age as, the end is ever drawing nigh. To come to a conclusion Medicine wheels? could WWWH be related to [ someway] a Medicine Wheel and that is the starting point?

          The problem I have had to this connection is actually reading the Wheel itself. each spiritual journey is different from the next person. Yet a lot of those journeys involve physical places, object, elements, animal, the natural environment, directions, seasons, etc.

          How hard would it be to read the poem as a physical journey of the other who took the spiritual one?

          Just a thought. Oh there are many wheel and nearly all are north of SF.

          • With ya there Seeker…there is a reason I wrote that example that way. I think FF has been quite clear (IMO) that there is no “filler” in the poem. I’m a believer that the “where to start” is the right state (my approach, not a fact). If the poem doesn’t tell me where (state) to go to first, then I am dead in the water.

            Some say “Begin it…” is the start. If the poem tells you the state, then it narrows down WWWH significantly…

          • I always thought the poem was straight and direct but when you get to the question mark that you must switch to the imagination part Forrest was asking about IMO

        • Hank,

          I don’t assume anything heck I don’t even suspect anything (wink).

          What I do believe is that FF said “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure.”

          It just so happens that his poem has nine sentences in it and maybe in FF’s mind each sentence is a clue, IMO the meat and potatoes are contained within Stanzas 2,3 & 4 and the rest is just Brown gravy.

          Remember FF’s dad once told him “The greater part of knowledge is knowing those things not worthy of knowing” (page 26 of TTOTC).


      • One viable option on the first two clue dilemma is “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down”
        Been wise “Wisened” and found (created) the blaze (beginning) look quickly down “End wise” your quest to (end)

        Thus the first two clues would be to find the beginning which is also the end. The “End” is technically “Gold”

        Without going into further elaboration or specifics I would say this SORT of thing could explain how people could have 2 clues solved but no idea where to go next as the second “clue” or “stop/end” and “blaze/beginning” is only the single word ‘gold’ and not even on a map just in the poem. Okay! Two clues solved! First is beginning is “gold”
        Second is end is “gold”
        Now onto the third!! Lolol

        Before everyone dissects this and attacks the specifics…my point is only that this is an OPINION using an EXAMPLE of how solving two clues could still have one lost as to how to approach the third….especially if they didn’t know WHY one had started with Been Wise in the first place…there would be little hope for #3

        Independently…all nine clues could be totally independent methods of solving. Then their answers (in order) would spell a word, reveal a sentence, or somehow identify a specific place. Picture multiple choice questions on a test. One could be math, one logic, one opinion whatever. But if the answer sheet read 54, Method Way, Happiness, Montana 98446….I might be inclined to go to that address. Plus the clues ARE in order as out of order the answers wouldn’t read as an address. Still all nine clues could have 9 different ways to solve.

        I don’t know. Just food for thought, as it seems like we all get easily stuck in thinking that all nine are to be approached/tackled the same way…sometimes I think that part of human nature…the brains remarkable obsession with attributing a common pattern to group many things as possible can be really misleading, even though it is literally built into our DNA to do so and solely responsible for our survival as a species. Haha

      • Seeker,

        Few to me is three and no more, just my opinion. Also IMO the first clue or first sentence is nothing more then saying he went “alone in there” ie by himself and “in” means that the resting place is bedded down in a secreted location maybe a peaceful ravine, small alcove etc.. that is within the canyon down.

        The second clue as I see it is the second sentence which begins at WWWH and takes you in the canyon down, not far but too far to walk. Now I believe that these are the first two clues that FF has referred to when he has said that some searchers have gotten the first two clues correct and went right on past the other seven not knowing they had been so close (maybe within 200ft). Now why have these searchers gone right past the TC because maybe they/we are looking for a home of Brown that doesn’t exist because HOB could be the actual resting spot and we must “put in” below (lower elevation or down the canyon from) the TC’s resting place.

        So in conclusion I believe what we all should be doing is taking our WWWH and our canyon down and start looking for a “no place for the meek” that is greater than “not far but too far to walk” then “put in” below it paddle up and look for a blaze. maybe not that simple but you get the idea.

        Good luck all.

        Luck = preparation and opportunity.


      • I believe I have an answer to you question of why its so hard to figure out the first clue.IMO Fenn has written the poem to sound like one clue my be many there for making the understanding of the first clue very diffacult. If not don’t you think most would of figured out the clue?

  65. Seabnm,
    Now, now…let’s not get to cocky about doing other peoples work. I’m the one doing the work here to make sure you are getting the quotes correct.

    In your first statement you said: “Forrest says at some point that a searcher could find the treasure with just the first three clues”

    Clearly this is not what he said. You did get it correct the second time around.

    He did say: “that if a person reads the poem over and over and were able to decipher the first few clues in the poem they can find the treasure chest. It may not be easy but it certainly isn’t impossible.” Which is a far different statement IMO.

    I would direct you to: Minute 50:00

    Here he states: That “… have to learn where the first clue is…they get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is…” I think this has essentially the same intent as your citation but does not say these are the only needed clues.

    None of this implies that only a subset of the 9 nine clues is sufficient but it also does not eliminate your idea about HOB. As I said I think that idea is worth considering.

    Please let’s be careful with the paraphrasing. Just saying.

    • Colokid,

      I apologize if my ribbing you came out as cocky that wasn’t my intent but I can see how you may have interpreted it that way.

      Yes I did paraphrase but it was intentional, again I try and vet all others opinions, statements and even solves and wholly expect people to do the same with mine. The paraphrase was my way to get others involved and research on there own rather then just take my words as fact.

      I have learned so much from this blog in the past 5 months that I have been involved in the chase and only wish to pass on to those that I have gained knowledge from it is their, yours and mine to do with it as we please.


      • Sean,
        No worries.

        You said: ” I strongly feel that FF’s comment that some people have gotten the first two clues correct yet went past the other seven without knowing it (some possibly within 200ft) to be accurate because they were searching for a home of Brown not thinking that the HOB might be the actuate resting place of the chest and went right past a whole lotta meek.”

        This struck me as an interesting thought because, to date, I have been thinking of the clue path as 2D. I guess this is the natural result of studying 2D maps.

        Your idea opens up the idea that he has describe more of a 3D array of clues than I have considered. So well done. I need to consider this more. I could see how the path is sort of a 3D spiral that doesn’t re-cross itself therefore not really doubling back or going in a circle.

  66. G’day! Before I head out again, I wanted to make a few “food for thought” statements…all IMO, since I am treasure-less at the moment——-
    1. WWWH, the beginning, and at the end, HL & WH may be the same features, possibly both are waterfalls. Going into a Canyon could create a waterfall, and ending with one as the HOB.
    2. I feel everyone is looking at HOB too literal. A child sees things in “grey”. Adults see things in blk & white since our boundaries are set. That is what creates the b & w view. Looking in a grey mode takes imagination…so HOB may not even be a home or brown, but F’s insight on a location, like a “brown study”. He also said if he told us where (hob) was, we’d walk right to the treasure. I think it is in the very immediate area of this “hob”.
    3. F said a few searchers figured out the first two clues, went past the others. He just confirmed the clues are in order, like steps, yet everyone keeps jumping, crossing, going from bottom to top.
    I think the person who finds it, will have a very simple way of thinking, and the ability to see and appreciate the simplistic beauty in everything.
    ¥Peace ¥

    • LOL Donna, I’m as simple as they come. HoB and clues… I don’t want to say fenn confirmed steps, although is sounds that way, yet could those clues of what they mean are needed to be know for the “big picture”? lets say the wwwh is water that goes somewhere, passes another point, to a physical land mark etc. Is it possible that knowing that route of physical place has to do with the first and maybe the second clue and not traveled?

      • let me add… as an example, a lot of folks feel ” Not far but to far to walk” as a clue they must follow. I ask how do you follow such a a clue? or can it just mean what it says. Not unlike if I said, I am closer to space then I am my work. The statement is true if I drive 30 miles to work. yes? Is the blaze the same line of thinking, simply saying you were wise to have found the correct meanings of those physical location and not so much where they are.

        Just thoughts.

        • Seeker, yep, understand.
          In F’s book, TFTW, it states, not paraphrsed, he went about ten miles, now it’s too far to walk. In his book interview, he did say he knew he put that answer in his book, and there was also another one that he didn’t realize he put in it. I have not figured it out…yet!
          I did find out where his clovis points he purchased in 1988, came from! I won’t tell where, but I love reading small town papers in archives! F said he liked small towns too…hum.
          I’m staying in Gardiner tonight. Plan on doing some fishing…
          ¥Peace ¥

  67. @colokid thanks for the great link, never knew about this one, interesting statement at 35:15 re his wife not knowing about hiding the TC within 18 months of his doing it. Sure I’d heard 10 days in a much more recent interview, not that it really matters except 18 months would probably be over a year before publication of TTOTC, IMO….

  68. begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down not far but to far to walk that’s where youll find the home of brown

    • Or…you are at a WWWH and there are canyons all around…which do you take? Oh yeah, the one below HOB. Maybe.

        • Well Frank,

          I guess I have to give up on my solve too then. At least I read your statement and now know I need to find a place with no canyons all around.

          You really saved me some time and money!

          How can the chest be hidden in the Rockies without being near more than one canyon?

          Would you please offer up some info that backs up your claim?

          Thanks – patiently awaiting your reply so I can learn something new today.

          I’m giddy with anticipation.

          Scott W

          • scott- sorry I cant help you with time and money – just like I did – you have to do more searching to find such a place sorry

  69. IMO K.I.S.S. is it for me. It is so beautiful outdoors this time of year. I believe autumn began yesterday. I feel the cool air in the morning and enjoy the warmth in the afternoon. The peak of foliage will be upon us–pictures, pictures, pictures. I enjoy going out and why not try to find Indulgence again. What are my odds? My odds are being prepared with a recipe for crow. I wonder if crow does well with cranberry sauce, turnips, and string beans. Somehow I will need to make it palatable for I think I will be eating a lot of it — 3 years worth 🙂

  70. The video I speak of is the TFTW book interview, not the one where he jokes in the beginning about the chair fit for a king.

    • I was ASSuming that the other unintended clue in TFTW was that Canada was left off the map in the book? Could be wrong.

    • I am also looking for that specific video, Donna, because it proves my point about a point to point treasure map….in this interview Fenn is asked if you can find the treasure if you solve just one clue….he says yes…the last one…because no one has listened to me including the White Knight…I decided to post the exact time on the video so people could verify this statement…..hopefully someone can help me locate this….I am glad you remember this video at Moby Dickens, too….it is not the throne video. Dal can you let me know where I can find this….Thanks so much…

  71. This may not be the place but I wanted to see if anyone knows ff’s birth date. I seem to remember it was a couple months ago but not sure the month or day. The book tells us 1930 for the year.


  72. I was thinking, something I always do. 🙂
    I was wondering if the Chest was the Blaze. So if you have been wise and found the Blaze look quickly down your queast to cease but tarry scant with marvel gaze just take the CHEST and go in peace. Hhmmmmm
    Because I obviously cannot find the Blaze in what I think it may actually be. Although I have another area to search next summer, and it’s straight forward 🙂

  73. IMO, IMO, IMO…… As many of you know, my confidence is typically high. Tonight, it is particularly high. I’ve been chasing for two years and 10 months. I’ve taken pics during my many searches. Knowing where I plan to search next, I continued my analyzing of The Thrill Of The Chase. I have a method that is kind of haphazard, but it works for me (I have no proof of my method working or me or not… i.e. lots of research, lots of searches, lots of effort, add it all together and what do I have? You do the math). I don’t have the treasure nor have I found it, but I have my confidence. Anyway, excitement aside, my research and my photos, together, tell me that I have found the blaze (please recall this is IMO…). I had been right there and did not recognize it for what it is. It all makes sense now (for what it’s worth, It has all made sense just before my other searches too). Dang! I don’t like down-playing myself with so much excitement. My next search should be taking place this Sunday, September 27, 2015. Time for me to start preparing for my search. I feel like I should be shaking with excitement. Is there a Dr. in the house?

    • Absolutely, Dr. Goof at your service. Here’s what you do:

      You put the lime in the coconut, you drink them both together,
      put the lime in the coconut, then you’ll feel better.
      Put the lime in the coconut, and drink them both up,
      Put the lime in the coconut, and call me in the morning.

      Good hunting Slurbs………

      • Good luck to you, Slurbs. Please be careful out there. I’m sure you’re wise enough to know not to trifle with the forces of Mother Earth.

        Onuat’s mention of Princeville led me to this. I had never heard of nor seen Princeville before. Wow! All I can say is…WOW!!!

        The ocean and shore there is breathtaking. Black and white…and the deepest, deepest blue.

      • Not just a Super Full Moon, but a Super Lunar Eclipse. First time since 1982.

        I’m not sure how far west the viewing area is though.


        • Nice & on Q.
          I can hear the werewolves howling.
          Who will see the partial lunar eclipse on September 27? A partial lunar eclipse may be visible in the haze of evening dusk on September 27 from the extreme northwestern portion of North America (western Alaska). A partial lunar eclipse might also be observed in the haze of morning dawn (September 28) from far-western Asia (Pakistan, Afghanistan, eastern Iran).

  74. Slurbs,
    Remember your geography, and if you don’t find Indulgence, please find contentment.
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  75. My progress:

    Warm waters halt – solved
    Canyon Down – solved
    Home of Brown – solved
    No place for the meek – solved
    End drawing nigh – solved
    No paddle, water high – solved
    If you’ve been wise – pretty sure

    Now I’m at the blaze, and that requires a hike of a few miles. Hitting the trail in the morning, I’ll be sure to post if I find anything interesting.

    Have a great weekend, searchers.

  76. Hello searchers:
    BigSkip here
    From the sound of it, several searchers are on their way to claim the TC. I wish them luck. Since I am late to the search, I would like to ask the seasoned searchers about Forrest’s comment:: “If I were standing where the treasure chest is, I’d see trees, I’d see mountains, I’d see animals, I’d smell pine needles, pinon nuts, sage brush and ……… I know the treasure chest is wet”
    Why no mention of a stream, creek, river, etc. etc? Giving away too much? Sounds like a location with a wonderful view. Is that possible?
    Thanks again for the ” hints”

    • @BigSkip not a seasoned searcher but have followed on here for months, 1st the pinon nut comment has been retracted (please don’t ask for the link, just trust me on this one)! Pinon pine doesn’t grow in MT and very few places in WY, anyhow so much for hoping that comment was a NM give away. Anyhow, back to ‘wet’ if the TC is exposed to the elements, rain, sleet, snow etc and rest in a location that never sees sun to dry it out, might be one way it’s wet. Or is there is a small stream and waterfall that creates a rainbow and the TC is placed near enough to catch a few drops from splashing off of rocks….what else, the TC is in a spring on side of a hill….some folks on here seem to worry that the ‘wet’ might hurt the bronze chest or it’s contents, I disagree…..IMO

      • Cholly,

        Somewhere near the end of the interview you reference, Forrest made a statement that he said something he wished he didn’t.

        If it were the “Pinon Nuts” then it is something he could not correct without narrowing the search area down.

        IMO – this was a slip, and he didn’t mean to say “pinon”, but I just don’t see how he can correct it without making it worse.

        With that said, I always discounted the pinon statement.

        I know you said not to ask for the link, but I sure would like to know where he retracted it as you mentioned. I am very interested in how he managed to do that.

        Scott W

    • Big,
      Cholly filled you in on nuts; Here’s some things he’s said about wet:
      “Mr Fenn, in relation to the final resting place of the chest, which of the 4 natural elements (Earth, Wind, Water, Fire) would mostly compromise it resting? ~ James”
      “I know what the question is. I don’t think earth can hurt it, under the right conditions wind might affect it, it’s probably already wet, and look at what fire did to the twin towers. Nature makes her own rules, James, so I try to not be absolute when talking about her.”

      And from the Santa Fe New Mexican article:
      Quote from F:
      “…And avid searchers detail his every word. In one recent video interview, Fenn described the treasure as being “wet” and many assumed it was hidden in a river or waterfall, and that was new information.
      It wasn’t.
      “How can anything be in the Rocky Mountains and not be wet,” he said. “Even if it were buried six feet deep, it would still be wet. That’s not a real clue.”

      So wet is not a clue. Anyone who thinks the chest is in a stream in the Rocky Mountains doesn’t spend much time in the Rocky Mountains.

      • Ckid, Do you happen to know which interview it was that Fenn had mentioned this?
        “I know what the question is. I don’t think earth can hurt it, under the right conditions wind might affect”

        • May I be of assistance Jake?
          MW 10/27/14 Nature Makes Her Own Rules

          Mr. Fenn, In relation to the final resting place of the chest, which of the 4 natural elements (Earth, Wind, Water, Fire) would mostly compromise it resting? ~ James

          “I know what the question is. I don’t think earth can hurt it, under the right conditions wind might affect it, it’s probably already wet, and look at what fire did to the twin towers. Nature makes her own rules, James, so I try to not be absolute when talking about her.”

          • Thanks WiseOne & james, I was hoping there was video or audio of this, maybe I will check YouTube because my solve puts it in water & has been sending my confidence level down a few notch lately. I need hard documentation spoke from the man.

  77. All below is IMO.

    Some contributors think that Forrest’s comment at the end of the radio interview where he says he ‘couldn’t find the gold based on what had been emailed to him’ conflicts with his statement ‘Andy Briggs’ has figured out most of the puzzle’.

    Why? Of course he couldn’t find the gold based on what had been emailed to him, the same way I couldn’t find the gold based on what had been emailed to him. The solution is obviously incomplete otherwise I would have found the treasure chest.

    What I’ve said all along, confirmed by what Forrest said is that I have figured out most of the solution. The reason for the e-book is that I can’t figure out the final bit. In the near future someone else will.

    The White Knight (Andrew Briggs)

    • AB, Do you think Shoshone Lake me be the big lake you you refer to? I have noticed Pocket Lake, what maybe water high. Maybe you can post your shortened down solve again please, my memory is fading.

    • I did not see/hear the interview, nor do I know your solve, and by no means am I making any judgement on it’s merit–that said, having heard ‘fennspeak’ for years I would think that if it involves any code or cypher or anything that it has been “figured” (I.e. Turned into figures) whether correct or not. Again ONLY a comment on word usage and double fenntendres. He’s a sky fox like that. Is your solution a cypher of some sort?

        • Hey 9- yeah it’s me. I try and always put the Jones- there’s someone else that posts with my name sometimes that’s NOT me so I have a pic too but it seems to only show up half the time. Winter was great. Hopefully well do it again…maybe get a creepy group of ten of us strangers together, rent a bobsled team and hit all our spots! Those bad ideas are the whole reason I fell in love with this in the first place….and because I like rehashing the brown trout issue.

    • AB, what is your motive for writing a book about the solve? I think I can answer that $$$$$$$. You have given me great motivation besides the treasure itself. I would like to find it, so no one else will write a book about this treasure, trying to capitalize on other people (except Fenn). This blog is worth way more than your book & you get way more opinions & sometimes better advice IMO. No money is made here, No ads & you do not have to pay to view or interact. Just follow the rules, which I have broke a couple. If you state you have 95% of the solve, IMO that is enough to put boots on the ground & find it.

      hear, Hear, my good man, bloody rubbish!

    • All right, maybe I’m sour grapes my solve is stuck at 50%. But I have a solve for that. After my first beer the percentage jumps up to 60%, so lets have another beer. Incredibly it jumps another 10%, suddenly I’m not so far off after all. Well, it took a few more beers & finally it looks to be 100% voila, solved!
      I’ll drink to that.

    • The White Knight, IMO, Pamela had the Chase completely solved in her own mind. I think she still believes her solve is complete. Therefore, if one believes he/she is correct, they absolutely are correct. Everyone else may disagree, but until they believe otherwise… So, as f says Briggs has most of it solved, I believe him. Heck, with this sort of thinking process, all of us who believe we are right, are in fact right… until we are convinced we are mistaken. I knew that some cabinets at my friends home were green. For nearly a year I knew this. Then one day I mentioned something about the “green cabinets” to my friend and his family. What a laugh they had. What I knew to be right was right up until the convinced me the cabinets were brown. My color blindness has a way of making me appear wrong. I hope my home of brown is not actually the home of green! I hadn’t thought of that… Dang it! Oh yeah, all of this is IMO.

      • I am on my phone so can’t really look anything up easily, but I seem to remember Forrest commenting once something about not correcting people when they say something wrong. Something about just smiling. But then again, maybe I am wrong and Forrest is reading this and just smiling.

    • White…. Imo There is a big difference between some and most….I think you got some stuff right…..but if you are not at the right place nothing else matters….For example, looking at one thing I believe you got right….there are at least 6 options…maybe more. In others words you can have the right answer and still end up in the wrong place….this means everything Fenn said was accurate. You got some things right, but you can’t find the chest because you are not in the right place….Cheers….

  78. Further evidence IMO that “32” POINTS to the location of the treasure chest:

    Integral to the poems architecture X(32) + Y(32) =64 6stanzas 4lines

    The “32 point compass rose” printed on F’s TFTW map is a Weems compass rose. Weems is the father of celestial navigation in the air – he taught early aviators such as Lindbergh and Earhart’s navigator.

    Evidence in the poem is H A L ‘T’
    T plotting a cross or X with Coordinates running thru sections 32..

    32 directional “points” of the rose literally point out X, Y direction axis.

    In TTOTC numerous references to circle, quarter circles, 16, 32 further illustrates how ff incorporated hints to a 32 point compass.

    On page 55, The long ride home, you read Forrest recounting he and Skipoy making a 1600 mile trip with a flat tire every 50 miles. Simple calculation 1600 divided by 50 yields “32 STOPS” my opinion based on facts from poem, both books, and f’s maps says your X,Y
    Stops are on section 32 – which also works nicely with WWWH.

  79. Although I have (what I feel) is a pretty solid solve already involving the Salt River Range, I decided to see if I might be able to make a new solve in my spare time.

    Some of the clues I have found come straight from other searcher’s post, but in general I only use bits and pieces.

    Below is a guess at the first few clues. Not all are original.

    IMO –

    First Stanza is talking about life and death. Specifically death.

    WWWH = Salt River Range. Range River Salt – Warm waters halt

    TFTW = a distance from point A to Point B traveling by car. The distance is not clear until you see the home of brown.

    HOB = Cathedral Group of the Tetons. Just North of the Salt River Range. Parson Brown would call a church home.

    When you see the hoB you have gone to far. Turn around and start looking for a put in south of the Cathedral Group.

    Death Canyon Trail-head – accessible from White Grass Road

    Walk toward Death Canyon until you come to the fork.

    Don’t take the left fork as this leads to Mt. Meek

    Take the right fork as this leads to Albright Peak. AKA – Wimpys Knob.
    The poem tells us to “go in peace”. To me “go in peace” sounds like “Go Wimpys”. Forrest also mentions Wimpy hanburgers on page 4 of the TTOTC.

    I’m still trying to piece together other items such as “mavel Gaze”. I’m thinking it has to do with Thor Peak just seven miles North of Wimpys Knob.

    Scott W

    • Scott,

      It’s not currently part of my solution, but I really like “home of [Parson] Brown = church”

      That will be on my list of good ideas once I prove me wrong.

      • I have just had a shocking realization that forces me to withdraw from the chase.

        If “home of Brown” is “home of Parson Brown” and Parson Brown is a snowman (“Winter Wonderland”), and a snowman in the Rockies is a yeti…….. anywhere NEAR a “home of yeti” is definitely not for the MEEK.

        just forget it. bye, enjoy getting eaten by a yeti

        • They just pretended the snowman was Parson Brown. I think you are safe from being a Yeti’s lunch.

          Parson Brown was the general term used for a traveling preacher back in the day. They would come to towns that had no worship services and perform marriages.

          I was hoping to find something like wedding rock, wedding creek, etc. in the near vicinity of Cathedral Group to strengthen the idea, but I could not.

          Scott W.

      • Joseph,

        Although I deduced the hoB = a church of some sort independently, I did find that it has been around for quite a long time.

        I’m guessing I might have read it and forgot all about it. Then it popped back up in by little brain a few years later.

        I guess my point is that there are probably many others out there who have been looking for a hoB fitting this condition for several years.

        Scott W.

          • Or a ritual site, and not a structure.

            As far as we know. The only part that is not associated with a structure is the chest itself. Heck all the other clues could be structures if that is what someone interprets them as.

          • Hey loco,

            “In” is fine by me as well, the point is the chest. Anything else as a clues can be a structure as far as we know.

        • You missed the point –

          Cathedral Group is a collection of mountains.

          I’m looking for a geographic feature that hints to a place of worship. Not a man-made structure.

          Scott W

          • Q1,
            You and others have deduced a connection between hoB and a church or worship. Would you share the rationale behind this linkage? F having said his church is in the mountains… ?

          • Uken, what people are missing is that Forrest’s church being in the mountains could mean an actual physical church, like a monastery, that’s in the mountains. His statement is ambiguous and open to interpretation. IMO.

            I personally believe he isn’t talking about a physical structure, but hoB could definitely be a monastery. IMO.

          • Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this Mindy. He is spiritual, other worldly minded and his church is in the mountains and bottoms of the rivers, loosely recalled. I lean against church building based on his statement here. If I hear you right, you too would put less than 50% of it being in a building. IMO

            “Not that there is anything wrong with it”. (Seinfeld episode 😉

          • LoL I told ya i didn’t know the area.

            But lets talk about man made to structure. Is Mt. Rushmore a structure?
            Is smoothing out a land bridge for hiking or driving, Man made? I think we need to stay with in a reasonable assumption when it comes to “structures”

            So Cathedral is a range… we can rule out structure safely then…lol

          • Or like in a ‘frank and open’ discussion…Frank means “warm” Frank Waters (Forrest’s good friend who authored ‘Leon Gaspard’ in 1964 and had forrest write the foreword revised edition or original then wrote an afterthought 17 years and republished again…then passed away years before Forrest just NOW wrote his OWN Leon Gaspard book etc.) well- Frank Waters = warm waters. Where would warm waters halt? at a “point”? Maybe one such as Pumpkin Seed Point. Frank Wrote a book about that ‘point’ and the Hopi tribes and place he learned the stuff that made him one of the most knowledgable of the culture and relation to geography in the whole world. I think he passed many of those ‘points’ on to Forrest also. Now…The poem doesn’t give “point coordinates” exactly here… but I’d say that that book sure does 🙂 If you care to entertain a different way of finding “points” who knows you might just like what you see and save a lot of semantic point time investment calculations. But that’d be kinda dull I guess.

          • Mindy,

            You said – “Forrest’s church being in the mountains could mean an actual physical church, like a monastery, that’s in the mountains”

            That is kind-of my line of thinking but not quite. If his statement about the church is a hint, then it fits well with Brown being Parson Brown.

            With that said, If I can find a geographic feature (not a structure) that might be the name of a place where Brown might live, then why not?

            So, why can’t the Cathedral Group in the Tetons be the hoB? It is unlikely to be renamed, and those mountains that make up the group are going to be there forever.

            One might also find a feature called House Rock, a peak called Temple Peak, a column called The Shrine, etc. All might fit with the hoB providing a WWWH is relatively close.

            Scott W

          • 42 – you wrote “Scott, perhaps the “point” is a geological spur formation in the mountains. Spurs resemble church spires; and also castle fortresses.”

            I think you and I are on the same page.

            Scott W

          • Rose – you wrote – “Q, maybe go in peace is going away from a church, a religious area or a quiet place. IMO”

            Perhaps, but I was thinking I need to turn around and go Wimpys to get back to the car. Which means I would be heading back toward Cathedral Group.

            “Go in Peace” = “Go Wimpys” . Say it out loud.

            On page 4 he mentions Wimpys and Church.

            BTW – I still don’t have a heavy loads or water high for this solve buttoned up yet.

            Still several loose ends to go.

            Scott W

        • Seeker,

          “the point is the chest.” ……I no longer think so (at least as far as the Poem is concerned)!!

          it says, “I can keep my secret where”……So, what’s secret? We know what the chest looks like and what it contains.
          The only thing we don’t know is the ‘location of the chest’.

          The only way you, I or anyone can go confidently to the chest is to know the exact location, beforehand.

          The clues can all be in one structure. There are many of these structures in the Rocky Mts, and most are North of Santa Fe. If one fails, there are many more. And, for the function they perform they will be around for a long time. Even if technology makes them obsolete, their function and the contents, will be well documented and preserved as long as mankind is around.

          All the Poem is for is to lead you to the “location of the chest”.

          All of the words in the Poem that make you think “outside” have been, and are, used to describe many other things….both inside and out.

          Forrest has only said the chest is outside. Where has he ever said that any one or all of the “clues”, were “outside”????

          Putcher thinkin’ cap on, Old Yeller!!! 🙂 🙂


          • Ok loco
            Ya got me thinking…
            Even if technology makes them obsolete, their function and the contents, will be well documented and preserved as long as mankind is around.


            The clues can all be in one structure. There are many of these structures in the Rocky Mts,…

            I kinda like this, as I haven’t put it together, all the clues “within”. Now the question… “Many of these structure” is that not unlike the comment there are many WWWH? It’s still comes down to a hunch on which one. Is there not anything that point to just the correct one.
            Is that the point… there are enough to last a person a 100 years to find it?

            I need to sit and think on this before I dissect it. Ya got my thoughts process rolling…

          • HAH, Seeker!! (yeah, I stole that from Jason)

            That’s the beauty of it. Each has it’s own WWWH, canyon downs and HOBs.

            There are a minimal number of HOBs. You use NFBTFTW to identify the correct HOB. (that’s where I’m at now….have two possibles for HOB)

            And, knowing the correct HOB, you use the third stanza to locate the instrument required to find the “location of the chest”.

            The “structure” may not contain the instrument, but it can be obtained. No specialized knowledge is required, just the ability to read and comprehend.

            OK. Nice playin’ with you again. I’ll catch ya on the flip-flop…..bye, bye.


          • Sorry, yeller, didn’r answer all your questions<

            Is there not anything that point to just the correct one.

            Any one of the structures can be the right one. It's not that they are a structure, but what they provide.

            "and with my treasures bold" — FF has said that imagination is a treasure. You use your imagination every time you enter one of these.

            "keep my secret where" — the secret (location of the chest) can be "kept" in any one of the structures, within a certain instrument.

            "hint of riches new and old" — Multiple Meanings,,,,"hint" can also mean a small amount of. These structures contain, relatively speaking, small numbers of "riches" new and old.

            OK, again. That's all I give you publicly and that may be too much. There are some sharp peeps here and at CC!!

            🙂 …and, Min-Min & JJ scare me, a lot!!! 🙂 🙂

  80. BigSkip here:
    A thank you to Cholly and Colokid for their reply. IMO, the TC is not submerged, is not buried in Rocky Mountain moist soil, it is, however, hidden in a geologic formation large enough to contain the TC and his bones without molestation by wild animals or deterioration by the elements and with a impressive view of his beloved Yellowstone. Moisture from a small waterfall dampens the TC but doesn’t bother the bronze box. A place requiring bravery to find and access not for the meek. Blazes lead the way. All of course, In My Humble Opinion as a beginner.

    • Hey BigSkip,
      I think Yellowstone is the place although it may be tough to be left for dead & your bones to stay there without any animals taking a piece of the pie. Maybe there are some geo features where bears may not go but may be difficult for a 79-80 year old man to go. Fenn did state that he would see animals, where the treasure is, who knows maybe these animals are not carnivorous. It’s a tough nut to crack for sure.

    • Thanks james, It just tears me up when Fenn or anyone uses any of these words: maybe, probably, might, if, or, possibly, possibility, perhaps, could, let me know which ones I missed. Fenn is a master of saying so much but so little at times. I think he should be a politician.

  81. OK, so you take the last letter of each line in the poem.
    Is this a cipher?
    I know some of you brilliant people can solve this aberration.
    I’ve tried to solve using th sea, but it seems to allude me.

    • Well Jake,

      If I were writing a poem that rhymed, I would expect the last letters to mostly match just as you have pointed out.

      I’m not sure I see the aberration.

      Scott W.

    • Thanks Q,
      That is a logical answer & one of the only ways to rhyme is to have the same pronunciations and/or letters at the end of each line.
      Would I be stretching it to say the first line contains ded as in dead?
      Alright, you called my bluff. Got nothing here trying to stretch it until it snaps, which it did.
      What do you think about the blaze being alive?

      • Jake,

        I suppose we would have to define what “alive” is. If you mean an organic based entity, then, No, I do not think it is alive.

        However, if you consider it to be inorganic, then I can see it being alive. Such an example might be a river, stream or creek. I know what is not carbon based, but it can appear “alive” with motion, sound, and feel.

        Basically, I do not consider the blaze to be alive.

        Scott W.

          • Then no. I do not think a living organism would be around in 100 years, much less a 1000.

            Scott W.

          • Well, that’s possible but I wouldn’t bet on it. My only problem with my theory is that it moves from place to place if it’s living? But we all know the TC is stationary to a certain time frame of course.

          • Jake –

            You wouldn’t bet on it?

            There are only two non-mobile living organisms that I know of that can live that long.

            One is an Aspen stand. The other is a honey fungus. Both of which can be miles in diameter and not guaranteed to be there in 100 – to a 1000 years.

            I guess you need to clue me in.

            Scott W

  82. Hello Jake:
    BigSkip here,
    Thank you for the comment. You are correct. Yellowstone is the place, somewhere. When ff indicated he wanted his bones to rest with the TC, he must have considered the animal population. Anywhere he would rest, his remains would be vulnerable. List all the animals for any TC location and his bones are still at risk. It’s the location of the TC that would offer some protection. Based on his comments on what he would see if he were standing with the TC, I don’t believe he would be at the bottom of some ravine or canyon. He roamed the mountains in west YP as a young kid and found “the” place. He has never forgotten it. Of course, In My Opinion as a beginner.

    • BigSkip,
      I like the way you think, I am also a beginner. Sometimes you need some fresh thinking. You keep it simple & I think that is the rule of thumb even though considering it has take him apparently 15 years to settle with the final words in the poem. It could be a bluff knowing Fenn loves a good poker game.

      • I like the way both you guys think.

        I’m gonna post something over at “the hidey space” now, regarding water.

  83. Like a few other searchers, I’ve was able to translate a few clues to certain areas. I’m not sure if I’ll find Indulgence at the other end, but I’m going to schedule a trip and look again. There are so many clues and hints to this place, that I just couldn’t believe what I was discovering. So, I passed my solution by a few people and the solution made sense–just like other solutions. I now see Andrew Briggs clue, Jeremy, 42, and other searchers’ clues at this location. In addition, clues from videos and other hints make sense to this location. I’m going to head up to the location next month and hope that I find it.

    • Rose,

      I really don’t know.

      Assume that WWWH = the cold war. How would you relate this to a physical place? A date? The sitting president at the time? Russia? Weapons?

      Please expand on your line of thinking.

      Scott W.

      • First, leave off the word “where” in that sentence. Second, Halt Hitler came to mind after I listened to the Moby Dickens video of FF. During the video, he talks about bombs and Hiroshima. Also, the omegas at the end of the book. The propellers in one of his books I think might be bombs instead. The recent Leon Gaspard book release by FF– as he from Russia? I don’t want to give away to much info here, but I think it has some substance. IMO