The Nine Clues…….Part Fiftysix

yellow

This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

THIS POST IS NOW CLOSED TO NEW COMMENTS AND WILL BE ADDED TO THE NINE CLUES ARCHIVE WHERE YOU CAN READ ALL PREVIOUS NINE CLUES DISCUSSION PAGES

 

716 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…….Part Fiftysix

    • “Jeremy, Forrest did say if someone was within 12 feet they would surely see it.”

      That’s forever archived now. I didn’t get a chance to reply 🙂

      I had to look up the quote a few months back on another thing. It is:

      “Second, I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”

      http://dalneitzel.com/2014/06/25/scrapbook-seventy-eight/

      I don’t think it’s buried, but I can think up a number of burying scenarios that would be compatible with this statement.

      OK, got my two cents in… carry on! 🙂

      • Why was the number 12? Did Forrest offer that number or did someone specifically ask about 12 feet, instead of 10 or 15?

        • Apparently some mechanism hidden in the poem gets you to within 12 feet of an object – IMO

        • Poe,
          Actually, another searcher over on ChaseChat had claimed F told her she was within 12 feet.

          He responded:

          “Dal blog, JUNE 2014?

          Normally I would not comment on what is said on the blogs but since there seems to be so much acrimony on two of them I will…….

          Second, I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.
          ……”

          • pssss “Color” kid [ lol had to do that, my bad] what was the first thing? I remember the 12′ correction, which I believe was started as an e-mail [ big surprise there huh!] But i can recall the other… do you have it at the ready? or was it the dam thing…

          • In the forest everything is pretty much the same theme IMO, if Forrest is saying that 12 feet you should find it that something must stick out at 12 feet!

            A rock 12 foot away looks like a rock but a rock 12 foot away with ff carved into it looks like there’s a chest under it :).

            All I’m saying is that 12 foot away it has to be IMO unnatural to its environments and surroundings to catch your attention

          • Funny guy Seeker ha, ha,

            To answer your question heres the whole thing:

            “First, I do not own Dal’s blog and he has never been in my employ. I sometimes send him things and he frequently declines to post them.
            Second, I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.
            Third, I had not heard of Christ of the Mines Shrine in Silverton, Colorado until many months after I hid the treasure.
            Forth, there is some geographical dispute about whether Bandelier National Monument is in the Rocky Mountains but since it is shown on the map in my Too Far to Walk book it must be considered within the search area.
            Fifth, I have never consciously misled any searcher or privately given a hint or clue I thought would help someone find the treasure.
            Sixth, I think I will be a little let down if someone finds the treasure in the next several years but I will quickly recover. It is out of my hands now.
            Seventh, there has been talk about some searchers receiving under-the-table clues that will help them find the treasure. Those accusations are false. I have, A wife, two daughters, two sons-in-laws, seven grandkids, one great grandkid, a cousin, a nephew and his wife. I like all of them better than I like Dal so that makes him 17th on the list to get clues from me. The fact that none of them have found the treasure should speak for itself.
            Eighth, I have received word from three ladies who wanted me to know that they are no longer in the search. They have fear of finding the treasure and being branded a harlot. Please folks, let’s try to get the blog conversations out of the gutter.
            Ninth, I reserve the right to be wrong once in a while.”

          • @ William

            Your probably right about it being a rock but only a searcher would have an eye for such a thing. A non searcher would most likely not be paying attention.

          • Hmm for some reason I remembered it differently. I thought he said I couldn’t imagine someone not finding it if they were within 12.

          • So he is saying it is “likely” that if someone is closer than 12′ they would find it… So at this point you must be able to see the Blaze… But what color is the Blaze? Imo what color is a daffodil? 🙂

  1. Dal – Goofy,

    Man I had just typed this whole thing up and the post closed.

    Anyway, I have a suggestion. When you close a post (chapter) it seems that the current conversation halts in its tracks.

    Perhaps it would be possible to respond to past comments on older post, but have them redirected to the current post with a link back to the reference.

    Just an idea.

    Scott W

    • Sorry Scott, I see what you are talking about but I don’t know of any way to do that…….We can allow or not allow comments but that’s about it. I could put off creating a new post until late at night but I don’t know if that would really help.

      You could copy and paste the comment and who made it into your response to it here. Then it wouldn’t be so disjointed.

  2. I don’t think that it is buried in the normal sense, in a hole filled over with dirt. However, I do believe that it is hidden in a depression under a log, board, or rock slab.

  3. why would Mr. Fenn say that a metal detector would help us? Does that mean we need a metal detector, or that it would make it easier for us if we had one?

    • Forrest only said that a metal detector is only helpful if your in the right spot ( paraphrasing )

      He only said that cause he was asked the question and IMO he just threw that out there but I believe it’s not helpful knowledge that if it’s buried or not.

      • It was said in a book signing. I don’t remember which one but research it on YouTube and should be easy to find

        • yea, sort of like saying, if it were a snake it would have bit you….with regards to if metal detection would help….IMO

          • Heard it both ways – some say it would help and there was a comment on this site saying that it would not help. So far it did nothing for me 🙂

    • A metal detector and being 12′ feet from the treasure to me are the same in one description by ff. There is a locations description that matches both of these comments.

      -possibly in a lake
      -maybe the spot is so remote and your proper following of the poem only allows the both hints to play (then you are so sure of the spot you scourer the area with a metal detector)
      -finding the right cave. (no matter how far you go in and out you pass it by 12′)
      -it is in a bluff that is difficult to reach and no person has business there unless looking for the chest.

      any other thoughts?iiimmmooo

  4. In response to a comment about looking quickly down at the blaze:

    From Nine Clues-31
    _____________________________________

    Crow, I’m with you on the blaze. If you’ve been wise (interpreting the clues for what you’ll see when you look down from the blaze) and your in the right location, then with boots on the ground, check out potential landmarks. Then look down, what do you see?

    Search the west
    on October 13, 2015 at 1:21 pm said:
    In my solve that line never really made complete sense, it half works but seems muddled. So if you get to the end of where I’m looking and your at the blaze : the only way you know you are at the blaze is from Google. There is nothing on the that ground would tel the searcher he/she is at the blaze but if you look down to a lower elevation you see two trees then the poem says but tarry rhymes with bury so possibly buried by a tree.
    ____________________________________

    Why can’t “look quickly down” mean something as simple as “to bow” or “to nod”? or an act of submission ( e.g. to kneel)?

    I guess my point, IMO, is that you don’t get to some token of an owl or figure of king soloman and then look down at your feet, or over the edge of a cliff. It means something else. This something else is a little piece and just a part of the larger solve.

    I’m just not thinking the same way.

    Scott W

    • One way of looking at this, is like Scott “introduced” Bow. Fenn has said in a Q&A using the words, In high regards or respect, his feeling towards the place the chest lays in wait. A couple things come to mind. A show of respect to where we are at or what has been placed there. This was to be the final resting place.

      Another is related to stanza 1 as IN there, needing to duck, crouch, bend. BUTT, tarry scant with marvel gaze

      Yet another line if thinking is, you still have work to finish and look quickly down is not what you need at the blaze, but on the map/poem, to finish your course. If the blaze is a trail / trail marker would it be unreasonable that the first 1/2 of the poem tells you how to find the blaze, and the second 1/2 tells you where the chest is?
      Does, tarry linger, scant small amount.. of time… mean get a move on to finish your quest.

      Is that too linear or two abstract? I get confused sometimes.

      • Seeker,

        We’re on the same page.

        A while back (in my linear days) I posted that if you look quickly down ( don’t pay attention to the task at hand, even for a second), you will miss it and your quest will end (cease). It will end because you missed it.

        And that loops me back to stanza 6 – Listen good. Pay attention. Focus.

        IMO, we are thinking about the poem entirely in the wrong way. A blaze is not a thing to stand before and then look down. No, it is something much more abstract.

        Scott W

        • I don’t know if this helps and I believe Dal can tell you this but one time a searcher asked Forrest if he was to look quickly down what would be see and Forrest replied ” my feet ”

          I think for whatever reason and why the word quickly was in the poem was your supposed to look down! Not just down but quickly down like a measuring tool to not in front of you but between your feet.

          My War For Me Forrest looked quickly down between his feet when he parachuted down. This might be IMO Forrests way of giving you the definition

          • Well, I’m not sure about everything you mentioned, but I did post a comment about feet a while back.

            I won’t go into the details, but here is the meat of it.

            … found the blaze = fire
            …quickly down = feet (foot)

            put it together and you have a hot-foot and now your quest to cease.

            Hot Foot Creek is on the Greys River near Murphy Camp ground to the east of the Salt River Range. Not far, but too far to walk from places such as Rock Lake Peak, Indian Grave Flats, Stump Lake.

            Scott

        • lets go with feet for a moment. Does this imply actual measurement / pacing. we all know fenn like his e-mails but I don’t know how to take this one… joke? seems like it.

          “Just cause you will probably get a laugh…i spent hours last night with those numbers below…i added them, multiplied them, found a pattern, try latitudes, hardshad #, morse code, applied it to the alphabet, searched zip codes, elevations, phone codes etc…dreamt of numbers and woke up this morning and said. If Hegben was that deep it would reach China and have a drainage hole, all the water would leak out and if you did plunk it at Hegbens depth then I could just walk around and find it.  Giggles.
           
          Here’s a lady who may find the treasure because she has done the math and knows exactly where it is. f”

          Or not unlike the first two clues correct comments… fenn is making it sound like this lady is doing it correct and those folks at the first two clues spot knew the clues. I have said it before and I’ll say it again… with all the questions, interviews, reporters, book signings… fenn can make anything sound the way you [ searchers ] hope it to be. The man has a mind like a steel trap.

          • There are IMO math formulas in the books, the story with Forrest cow he gave 5 cats 5 squirts apiece, in the story The Toy Factory yo-yo= quarter and marbles = dime then there is the adding and subtracting of Dr Peppers and snacks.

            I don’t think the idea there is a mathematical solution in there somewhere.
            Forrest to pray for D’s seems to be sharp in the math world

          • Seeker/Scott,

            Seeker said: ‘ fenn can make anything sound the way you [ searchers ] hope it to be”

            That’s no joke.

            But if it’s measurements your after what do you really see when you look down….not just feet…..*two feet*….2ft.

            Hope that helps….I don’t know what to do with it. Ha, ha.

          • Inthe,

            Entirely possible but I’m not in the camp that thinks it’s buried. I believe there are legal issues and, more importantly, I think it would be virtually impossible to find something buried.

            I think the amount of information needed to find a buried TC would be exponentially greater than something un-buried. I think we have a very limited amount of information available in the poem that doesn’t allow for that level of precision…..IMO.

          • Colokid et al,

            • As I have gone alone in there (Of course alone)
            • There’ll be no paddle up your creek, (I think this says no paddle, no boat, you gonna get wet)
            • Just heavy loads and water high. (could be weights as in scuba gear but hope not, water high=at least head below water)
            • If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, (no idea)
            • Put in below the home of Brown. (no idea)
            • Your effort will be worth the cold. (not only will you get wet it will be cold)
            • Look quickly down, your quest to cease, (no scuba gear, whew!, so look quickly while holding breath)
            • But tarry scant with marvel gaze, (you cant keep staring at the chest, go up for air. Or on shore, or bank be blown away by the find but get a move on for some reason, wet and cold? Dunno)
            • Imo opinion this is food for thought

          • Colo –

            It would be impossible to find if buried –
            UNLESS he placed a marker there – like the missing letter X. I think he did that in relationship to the missing other letters – like D and S.

          • Inthe,

            Again, that’s entirely possible but assuming you are talking about an obvious X-like blaze wouldn’t that pose some problems?

            Suppose non-searcher Joe fisherman is walking through the woods and sees an artificial X on the ground. Might he not be tempted to poke around and see what’s being marked?

            Or are you suggesting a *virtual* X of some kind?

          • Colo –

            I see your point – about someone stumbling on it – No – it cannot be seen easily from above or even below – but only from the side. First, no one goes to this area – there is no reason to. No path – not on the way to anything – very secluded. The only person who could stumble on it would be a hunter – and there is “no hunting” in this area – so I really don’t see that as a problem either.

          • Inthe,

            Well dang….if this is an actual place you know, go dig it up.

            “Winter’s coming Jon Snow” what’ca waiting for? LOL

          • Uken2,

            Well I’m not in the camp that thinks it underwater either….too many issues with that like get washed away or being dangerous to retrieve. Just doesn’t make sense to me.

            I’d highly recommend staying out of waters in the RM’s.

        • That is why I wrote looking down would be to a lower elevation but could also mean south as well. This at the final blaze of course. The blaze is probably so inconspicuous that most if not all would be thinking hmm must have figured wrong.

          • Hunting and fishing happen everywhere.No matter the laws or postings.The more secluded a spot is, the easier for poaching to take place.Hunters eventually find everything in the woods.I think the chest would risk being comoromised by a non seeker if it wasn’t buried.Pirates always bury the gold.

          • Speaking of winter coming.Has Forrest ever said if the treasure chest was open for buisness twenty four hours a day seven days a week three hundred and sixty five days a year including holidays?

          • My grandparents had a spring well on their farm in TX. I was told to fetch a bucket of water, but couldn’t see it attached to the well.
            My grandma said, “Just look quick down in the well, you’ll see it.” That popped up in my memory when I first read the poem.
            I don’t know if it’s a Texas saying, or that of a 90 yr old generation saying. But “quick down” was just a foot or so.
            F is a Texan. Maybe this is what he means in the poem, that the treasure is sitting a few feet below the blaze. I think I’ll stick with that meaning as part of MY solve.
            ~Donna~

    • Scott, look quickly down has nothing to do with bowing or putting one’s head positioned to see what is near one’s feet. Actually, for me it has nothing to do with my eyes. Look quickly down has to do with fly fishing – that is a big clue I am giving! Now do the research and find out what and when that fly fishing started and it will also give you measurements – another huge clue. You can find the info on youtube. I have this poem solved and still cannot find the chest. I am the hummingbird with the empty nest. oh yeah, IMO

      • @crowfeast watched several YouTube videos yesterday, learned a little bit about fly casting, didn’t see any mention of look quickly down…..think I’ll stick with tight lines and cane poles! Once set a trot line in a small lake only to come back to check and find that the beavers had removed it and bundled it up on two separate stumps, lol, true story….

  5. I thought FF said we would NOT need a metal detector…?? I’m not the most versed in the archives or quotes. Maybe one of the more seasoned folks can weigh in more conclusively for the rest of us? Thanks!!

    • To be honest I’ve not heard or seen the quote where Forrest said no tools or metal detectors wasn’t needed?

      The only thing I’ve seen was a article that was written and the grapevine effect was that Forrest said that!

      I wish there was something out there direct from Forrest about the need of a metal detector but the closes thing was metal detector is useful if you’re in the right spot ( paraphrasing )

      • William,

        Let’s go back to the original idea of the poem. Would you need a metal detector to find the bones of a man?

        No!

        The chest will be located below him, since he cast his body upon it.

        IMO – no metal detector needed. Just find a place that might keep a few bones safe.

        Scott W.

        • Scott this is just my opinion but I think Forrest final idea about his resting place is only his last thoughts on earth and he don’t care after he’s gone what happens to his bones. I only say this from his last post on Jenny’s site

          Joe, thanks for the question. I have no desire to be buried in a box. It’s too dark and cold for me, and too lasting. I would rather go into the silent mountains on a warm sunny day, sit under a tree where the air is fresh and the smell of nature is all around, and let my body slowly decay into the soil. What can be better than that? f

          He mentions it’s to lasting to be buried or should I say in a box which makes me believe this idea imo

          • Yes, I read that. However, the original intent was to lay his bones down on top of the chest and commit suicide.

            But then…. his cancer went into remission and his plans changed. One thing that didn’t change was where he planned to place the chest, and he followed through with that part of the plan.

            So, I stand my ground. It is my opinion that we are looking for a place that would keep a pile of bones safe for some period of time.

            No metal detector needed.

            Scott W.

          • Yes your idea is sound, but the only way I can think of is a cave and he would have to close the cave behind him.

          • Will… Will, this is chuck full of clue!! are you kidding me!

            No desire to buried the box.. not buried
            It’s too dark and cold… brave the dark effort will be worth the cold place.
            silent mountain… in the wood… look for the rays of the sun… look quickly down.
            decaying body… the end is ever drawing nigh.

            Just heavy loads and water high… a cave under a waterfall. bones at the top, sunshine on the entrance.

            We solve it…

  6. My take is that yes, we need a metal detector if ,and only if we are where we are suppose to be.RC.

    • RC,

      I don’t believe so. If I gave you directions to the location where I parked my car and told you the car would be parked over the treasure, would you need a metal detector?

      Replace the location of my car with the location of his body.

      Don’t waste your money on a metal detector in regard to the chest.

      If you can’t find the spot, find it you will not.

      IMO, of course.

      Scott W

      • Forrest did say something that disproves the metal detector theory and that is if you are 12 feet from the chest that it’s unlikely not to find the chest ( paraphrasing )

        To me that disproves the metal detector cause 12 feet something would have to jump out at you to either stop and dig or move a rock or something

        • Big orange sign, foam finger pointing at it, dal with a fishing pole sitting on the chest……. Wait skip the last one 😉

        • Most of what is being said is somewhat correct. there are three different comments, [Paraphrasing all, It would take a while to locate these as they were commented on long ago] No special equipment or tool… this was said around the time some folks were digging up outhouses and one guy digging up a place with a backhoe.

          The 12 feet comment was to correct inaccurate quoting that fenn said 12 feet, and stated it would be unlikely being that close and couldn’t find the chest. { as Will stated }

          The metal detector I believe was at a book signing or some get together, and IMO fenn was having fun with the answer of using a metal detector… ” exactly in the right spot” pretty much rules out the need for one.

          Anyone here know the first clue? just curious.

          • Seeker,

            I have some ideas, but since I am not certain about it, I have to say, “No. No, I do not know the first clue.”

            For the record – I do not believe WWWH is the first clue. It may be the place to begin, but it is not the first clue.

            “not believe” = IMO

            Scott W

          • Hi seeker….WWWH is such a diverse clue that it could literally be anywhere…..for example……a shower in a motel room. Does that help us? Sort of….as it could be related to a place that Fenn frequented. I have a few ideas, and one being….an actual city.

            If one ventures out into the wild from pretty much anywhere, then there isn’t going to be any “warm water” flowing, but when you leave a city, you’ve just left the warm water behind, and yes, it halts because it does not follow you.

            Knowing this possibility, one can probably extrapolate a reasonable area to search, and then see if the other clues fall into place. If they don’t, then you can cross that city off and work on another one.

            I’ve used this scenario for different areas on maps and Google, and actually have come to conclude that WWWH is none other than West Yellowstone…..mainly because of his childhood years and his familiarity with the region.

            Is this a possible starting point, I think it is.

            Cheers!

          • hi tsquare, keeping your sanity is a plus. :o)

            I’ve been on this hunt for almost 3 yrs now….and boy-o-boy…..I’ve lost not only my virgin mind, but also any mind I thought I had!!

            :o)

            Seriously, Fenn said to keep it simple…..I’d work that angle as much as you can.

            To think an 80+ yr old man would throw in a cipher of sorts is kinda outlandish to me, because his interviews and stories really don’t evoke such treks.

            He sort of puts forth the Indiana Jones style of adventure, and if you remember those movies, the puzzles that he encountered were also all simple, but you needed to be wise to understand the meaning of the puzzle. Exactly as Fenn as put forth.

            One instance I keep remembering is when Indiana’s father in the “Lost Ark” movie, are the pages in his book and how they were written and described. “Daddy Jones” (Fenn for my example), if you recall had images and phrases, but wasn’t sure on how they apply to the quest.

            Whereas, Indiana (the seeker) realized what to do.

            If this mentality can be applied to how Fenn thought or even what he did during the time, I think we as seekers can come much closer to solving this perplexing puzzle.

            Good luck!

          • You have to be in the exact right spot for any metal detector to work, no matter what your looking for.My metal detector will not pick up the chest if I’m standing twelve feet from it.lol.

          • zosorocks

            The name is intriguing… is for Led Zeppelin or fake rocks. The stone part would be funny if fenn used one/made one to hide the chest.

            If using West Yellowstone as WWWH and as the first clue… one question comes to mind, How can a few get the first two clues correct?
            1. the wording of a few and several in fenn’s comments about the first two clues. there must be 1000’s who have started in W. Yellowstone or do you have a specific place in mind? no need to tell what that is.
            2. I think that using a man made heating of warm waters, confuses me a bit. YNP sure with the thermal activity. But heated water from plumbing as to indicate a city kinda throws me off kilter. We can start in SF where fenn start his journey to hide the chest as well in this line of thinking.

            This is a different perspective, I’ll give you that… I need to think on this. My other thought is geography… not so much in the study of, but expansion of the city, I’m not sure where your next clue goes… but if it’s canyon down, what happens if the city expands beyond that? future line of thinking. or is the next clue already inside the city limits?

            Just another question, do you think this falls in line with “head games” type attitude or a riddle to find WWWH? I mean it would be a kick if it turns out to be correct… It’s just a gut feeling i have that sends up a red flag, yet I don’t know why it does… I need to think about this lol, now that you got my last brain cell all twisted up.

          • LOL…yep the LZ reference is correct.

            Sorry to cause more thoughts to be jumbled up, but like others, we all have an idea….I just thought this one fits Fenn as if he is speaking in “a matter of fact”.

            Now could this clue represent a city, or more accurately, a city’s s edge of town. Remeber, he was a wilderness guru, so using this expression would be a common phrase he used.

            ;o)

    • See my previous post. No metal detector needed to find a pile of bones.

      Just replace “chest” with “bones”. The clues lead to the same place.

      Scott W

  7. Hello everyone, been browsing the blog for a couple of months now. I first heard of the Chase and Forrest Fenn back in July on CBS Sunday morning and been hooked ever since! No solid “solve” yet but lots of thoughts and ideas, hoping to be out on my first boots on the ground come spring. 🙂

    • Welcome, tsquare!

      Lots to learn here.

      My advice – study the poem and the book before you watch all the videos and listen to the interviews.

      Keep a virgin mind for as long as you can.

      THEN – once you have gone insane trying to figure out the poem, watch/listen/read ever thing on this blog!

      …. you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

      Scott W.

      • Oh, and too late for the read first, I’ve literally swallowed everything I can find whole. Quite a bit to digest, but good advice. I have both books and the poem memorized (of course). Still formulating ideas, tho I’ll say I’m in the New Mexico camp (for now) and my primary thoughts, even before the poem, are trying to understand Fenn the man. Thanks for the welcome!

    • tsquare,

      You’ve been browsing a couple of months and you’re still brave enough to join in? LOL.
      Welcome. Please, if you like, share some thoughts/ideas. Maybe a fresh perspective will help us.

      • Thanks Q2 and Seeker, I’ll admit it took some screwing up a little courage to peek my head out, ha! Lots of really smart people here.

        • tsquare –

          There are a lot of smart folks here.

          Anyway – the fact that you stuck your head out indicates you are ready to play ball.

          We welcome your active participation.

          New brains…… Brains……. Brains……

          Sorry – in the Halloween spirit

          Scott W.

    • Welcome tsquare,

      I’m also a relative newbie, having joined “the club” back in June. In the short time I’ve been here I have discovered that many of the folks here know what community really means. It’s worth your time to be part of the fray – at least I have found it so.

      Good luck on your search!

      Some Where West Of Toledo

  8. I just had a “duh” moment (that perhaps has been discussed under my very nose)

    Forrest refers to more than several correctly identifying the first clue

    Does that mean they have identified THE WORDS THAT CONSTITUTE THE FIRST CLUE?
    or
    Does that mean they have identified WHAT THE CLUE REFERS TO?

    kinda difficult search query–has this been discussed/resolved?

    • IMO I was always a believer that first, second or third clue never really matter to me. IMO if you can’t use the whole poem in your solve and you have to make it fit with your solution that you might not be I. The right spot. Imo

      • And ANOTHER thing that bugs me.

        Forrest has said the clues get easier …..

        Blaze is not apparently easy, unless once you’re there, and “wise”, it’s obvious. Hmmmm. Fowwest ! Dag nabbit you wascally wabbit !

        • Joseph,

          That only leaves one possible conclusion. It didn’t get easier for you because you incorrectly solved the proceeding clues.

          IMo

          Scott W

        • IMHO – I think the clues reflect Forrest’s stance of “as a matter of fact”…..and you must be in the area to realize this.

          If you “sneak” these words into the poem, you will see that it tells a nice little story of a walk in the woods.

          Cheers!

    • To argue for the WORDS side of things, when Forrest says [they identified the first two clues, and went by the rest] it could mean they identified the first two POETIC CLUEs–not the answers to them–and then skipped everything to worry about what a blaze is, without bothering much about the middle of the poem.

      It would be a reasonable observation from someone observing the fantastic range of reactions to TTotC. “HEY Forrest ! I found it. I skipped everything but WWWH and HOB, and KNOW WHAT THE BLAZE IS.” That kind of “woah, well, OK” moment for Forrest that lingers and finds it’s way into the discussion.

      • Supposedly that each clue takes you in a path to the chest. If you miss understand the next clue that you would head away from the chest. Maybe it’s the third clue that throws people off?
        Maybe that’s the fork in the road? And it makes sense to go one way instead of another. IMO apparently the third clue is tricky, I wonder the few that has been close to the chest did they figure out the rest of the clues or did their mistake on the third clue get them there but sense the mistake it put them 200 feet off? It’s only my opinion and just bouncing ideas around

      • Here is the exact quote,

        “‘There have been some who have been within 500 feet because they have told me where they have been. Others have figured the first two clues and went right past the treasure and didn’t know it.’ – F.F.

        Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2013/03/08/forrest-fenn-and-the-raiders-of-the-stashed-gold-real-life-indiana-jones-stages-treasure-hunt-3531551/#ixzz3ocWPYzLO

        The “others” in the quote above “figured” (i.e., solved correctly) the first two clues. However, they did not correctly solve enough of the remaining clues, or maybe they incorrectly solved one or more of the remaining clues; therefore, they went right past the treasure without knowing it.

        I hypothesize that the “others” are the same ones that came within 200 feet of the treasure. I also hypothesize that these searchers did not directly tell Forrest where they had been but Forrest read about them on the Internet. I think I may know who the others are because their solve closely matches mine, except off by just shy of 200 feet.

        Since this is part of the nine clues discussion I will share the first two clues of my solve (not that these are unique in any way).

        1) Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk.

        2) Put in below the home of Brown.

        In my solve these first two clues tell you where to park your car.

        I will also share my ninth clue.

        9) tarry scant with marvel gaze

        In my solve the ninth clue is not necessary to find the treasure because it will be found after following the eighth clue. However, this last clue is important to put the location of the treasure in the context of the surrounding area (i.e., Why did Forrest feel compelled to give us this warning after the treasure has been found?)

      • Joseph,

        I found this Q&A… I don’t have the exact date this was posted but read the question and it will narrow down the time era. This is the only response i have found that state what we have been talking about. take it for what it’s worth…

        Hi Forrest,
        I saw an excerpt from your Oct 22 event at the bookstore where you mentioned again that the furthest people have gotten was only figuring out the first 2 clues.  I had sent you an email after my 7th trip to Montana from Connecticut a few days before the event outlining my solution which led me  xxxxxx   where I planned to continue my search in the spring.  Obviously if you said you know of only the first 2 clues being solved then all of the people who emailed you their solutions, including me, should start looking elsewhere.  Before I give up my solution, I just wanted to confirm that you do in fact read every email even if you don’t respond.
        Rod
        Rod,
        I read all emails unless they are too long, unsigned, or ask for an advantage or confirmation.
         
        Those who have solved the first two clues are not aware that they did, so I don’t see that as useful information for anyone. I will not comment on any solutions that are sent to me by email. Good luck sir. f

        • LOL!! See Seeker, this why people read only one statement by Fenn and come to a concrete conclusion about what he: said, is saying, meant to say, etc, etc, etc……..

          The quote and link (posted above by thepowerfullplaygoeson ) is dated 03/08/13:
          “‘There have been some who have been within 500 feet because they have told me where they have been. Others have figured the first two clues and went right past the treasure and didn’t know it.’ – F.F.

          Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2013/03/08/forrest-fenn-and-the-raiders-of-the-stashed-gold-real-life-indiana-jones-stages-treasure-hunt-3531551/#ixzz3ocWPYzLO

          And, Fenn made similar remarks:

          Oct. 22, 2013 – – video @ Collected Works @38:20: several got first two and “went” right past the treasure chest…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ti2peP8jWYM
          —-this is the Oct. 22 event referenced in your post.

          Nov. 02, 2013 – – Moby Dickens Bookstore.. …..@ 8:30: several deciphered first two clues and “walked” past chest…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXupxL4ovmY&feature=youtu.be
          …………………………………………………………………….
          Then, we have your post:
          Hi Forrest, I saw an excerpt from your Oct 22 event at the bookstore where you mentioned again that the furthest people have gotten was only figuring out the first 2 clues. I had sent you an email after my 7th trip to Montana from Connecticut a few days before the event outlining my solution which led me xxxxxx where I planned to continue my search in the spring. Obviously if you said you know of only the first 2 clues being solved then all of the people who emailed you their solutions, including me, should start looking elsewhere. Before I give up my solution, I just wanted to confirm that you do in fact read every email even if you don’t respond.
          Rod
          Rod,
          I read all emails unless they are too long, unsigned, or ask for an advantage or confirmation.
          Those who have solved the first two clues are not aware that they did, so I don’t see that as useful information for anyone. I will not comment on any solutions that are sent to me by email. Good luck sir. f

          ***Your post, by the way is not from Q&A, it is from: http://dalneitzel.com/2013/12/15/forrest-gets-crazy_mail/ and you can see is dated 12/15/13
          ……………………………………………………………………
          So, as you can see, he made similar remarks on: 03/08/13, Oct. 22, 2013, Nov. 02, 2013 and approx.. Dec. 15. 2013.

          However, in his answer to “Ron”, he also says, “ Those who have solved the first two clues are not aware that they did,….)

          He has made it quite clear, in that statement, and a few times subsequently, that the searchers who have solved the first two clues….DON”T KNOW IT!!

          If you review his other comments, to date, on this subject you will find that he has never said that anyone who had mentioned the first two clues to him, knew that they had done so!!

          🙂 🙂 loco

          • Only one correction. it is a Q&A just not from MW’s but an e-mail sent to fenn… Normally I would not repeat an e-mail post, because we have seen how well those go. But this one was sent to this blog directly from fenn. I think it holds a bit more credence. [ as far as e-mails go]

            And yes you are correct as to we need to look at more than just one comment, statement, Q&A etc. to see a pattern of fact before jumping to a conclusion. I started doing this a short time again, as a method of checks and balances to dissect my theory / solve. I did the same with my last brilliant, one of a kind, perfect, with no doubt, and full of um, oh right.. confidence, solution. well… I got D –

            I’m starting to see a pattern in most of the comments and, IMO.. most won’t like my conclusion.. is fenn has done very well to entice, by letting us think we found a scant of usable knowledge. And over a 5 year period he has not falter hardly, that I can see.

            So does knowing this information help… yes and no. what seems to be is, the place[s] refer to as the first two clues have been visited by several searcher, and they didn’t know the significance of why they were there.

            I’m sure someone will debate my comment here… but i’m done with this topic [ first two clues and who was there ] and moving on to more pressing issue… what the heck are those clues?!

    • Joseph,

      Not a duh moment at all. This has been my pet project for the last couple month. Not only to understand just what you asked but why some went pass the other seven clues.

      http://dalneitzel.com/2015/07/04/seeker/

      I have been reviewing as much as I can on comments and Q&A’s about this… some in the link above. I’m still torn if folks actually “knew” they had the right clues or is it was a good hunch or aberration. I’m leaning to [ imo ] that they didn’t understand why they were there. This leads me to think that the first two clues work so close in combination that maybe, the first clue is not what they believed it to be.
      The other thing is why they went pass the other seven clues. again [imo] two things could have happened ;

      They didn’t know the third correct clue or misunderstood and went the wrong way… or
      They were not supposed to go.

      If you read the… more than several had correctly identified the first two clues… it does seem they knew or is fenn saying they identified where they were [ to fenn in emails / in person,] and of course fenn knows that’s the place[s] is where the clues refer to. trying to understand this is just as bad as solving the poem…IMO. Hope that helps.

      • Seeker, you may be right… “They didn’t understand where they were”… So perhaps they need the right combination of the first and second clue to proceed… So what do you think the first clue is?

        • I have sat here for 15 mins. thinking how to respond. Now a half hour has passed and all i can say is…. J/K

          IMO the actual name of the place is in the first stanza. Why is that important if [ IF ] the next clue is WWWH and if one is at WWWH, why would they need to know the name [ especially since I don’t like using name for places myself ]

          It’s due to the uniqueness of the place and that explains [ imo ] how to read the poem. There ya made me say it… shame on you.

          • Hypothetically speaking, what if the clues has no names, no history to it to be researched or any street signs to it? What if the first clue is the only thing you got to go by? And without it you can’t find the second clue?

            So maybe that’s why Forrest emphasizes on the first clue? Maybe that’s why Forrest said all you need is the poem, TTOTC and a good map?

            Maybe that’s why over thinking it isn’t getting is there

          • Below is yet another example of how I think Fenn may have written the poem.

            What am I?

            I’€™m the sweetest of sounds in Orchestra heard,

            Yet in Orchestra never was seen.

            I’€™m a bird of gay plumage, yet less like a bird,

            Nothing ever in Nature was seen.

            Touch the earth I expire, in water I die,

            In air I lose breath, yet can swim and can fly;

            Darkness destroys me, and light is my death,

            And I only keep going by holding my breath.

            If my name can’€™t be guessed by a boy or a man,

            By a woman or girl it certainly can.

            And after you guess – state your solves next to each clue.

            This is to reinforce the point that Seeker may be correct. It is possible for a seemingly unrelated set of clues to all point to one single thing.

            BTW – I posted this example on another blog back in July of 2014 trying to prove the same point.

            Scott W

          • Disregard the post of the poem. Not all of the cut and paste came through.

            It doesn’t make sense as is. I will try again on odds and ends.

            Scott W.

          • Scott, I have a serious problem trying to take your interesting riddles that do not require a specific sequence of their clues and compare that to Mr. Fenn’s poem.

            Taken in any sequence, your riddle would still come out the same. Perhaps a siren?

            Forrest has warned against attempting to take his clues out of sequence.

            This is what makes sense to me (MO). Be careful whom you listen to.

          • Will,

            Name matching is flawed imo. Attempting to match a name with an area seem to lead all over the place. [ remember david’s hoB map]. One may use the name such as Brown Mountain, and start looking for other names in the area to match another clue… that is almost force fitting a solve in my book and no more than guessing.

            I look at the poem as if I was there [ the area ] for the first time. We have been conditioned to read maps and get directions by names, yet Meek, Osborne, Lewis and Clark… didn’t have names to go by on their journeys. Look at the poem as in “relation to” type thinking. My example is; hoB may refer to below the border of Canada. Reasons are indicators with in the poem.

            Example: The Brown beaver is this countries symbol, not unlike the Bald Eagle for the U.S. The semi colon used in the poem May refer to 1/2, and still connects the north range to the south range, we now know Canada is no longer in the running so it seems to fit… it removes searching there, it removes 1/2 the RM range and put’s a place to be below… the remaining four states.

            No place for the meek, imo refers to the CD, as it is the back bone of the RM’s. when I read the poem I see many reference/indicators to place, and not all are easy to recognize. Such as the CD may have another indicator as creek; a narrow passage and so on. This still leave the poem in a linear movement, consecutive order, and straightforwards, but you need to think about it as being told to travel to a place you never been.

            This maybe why locals don’t have an advantage, why folks who know fenn don’t have an advantage, why the places have a standing chance to last a test of time. When trail blazers did get information from local population, most in different languages, the descriptions of the places were described by what they saw, not named [in most case].

            We do the same here~in the chase~ to a small degree, but our conditioning of modern time seem to force us, to force fit. and when we can’t force fit names, we make up things to use as clue… a picture of a pet for example. Another example is… WWWH can and can not be the first clue at the same time, using this line if thinking.

            Knowing where to start… maybe stanza 5… is the place to start “knowing”… tired and weak may refer to the medicine wheel, WWWH may start the journey of the Medicine wheel… all the indicators of the poem are there. Cold, warm, wood, water, bear, new n old, brave, meek, N S E W etc.

            Is this why folks got the first two clues, were at the location and went by the other seven clues. I have a hard time thinking [ and to be blunt ] that all those folks were stupid enough to all make the same “wrong turn” in a step by step solve… that is hard for me to grasp.

            Anyways, I have a solve, but now I’m dissecting it, and trying to attempt to see just why those searcher did what they did.

            Just food for thought…

          • Seeker,
            Thanks for your food for thought. I have worked the medicine wheel also, but your perspective of how you narrow down the search area, Canada, ½ Rockies etc., is one I don’t think I have utilized. I try to narrow down the search area but not in this way.

          • Q1werty2 –

            The answer to your riddle is – Orca Whale

            Only a woman would know – corset stays are made out of whale bone.

            Orchestra – word clue to ORCA

            Never see nature – always in water

            —————-

            I like that and I like riddles –

            Do I think he composed the poem in this manner – some parts – but I think it is more straight forward than that. 🙂

        • IMO… F said the searchers figured out the first two clues/begin at the beginning…then went past the other 7 clues, not realizing the significance of where there were at.
          So, I feel, the 2nd stanza IS the beginning. F said that sounds like more than a couple (clues) to me, when describing the 2nd stanza.
          ☆ Wwwh =1. F=”Begin at the beginning”

          ☆Tiicd= 2. Searchers got this far finding correct canyon.

          ☆Nfbtftw= 3. Searchers passed the target area. In TFTW F said about ten miles so the searchers went too far into the canyon.

          Pibthob = 4. F said if he told what HOB was, searchers would walk right to the treasure.
          (So 4 clues in 2nd stanza)

          The 3rd stanza, describes the area near HOB where the treasure lies. The blaze should be discovered at the point, because the 4th stanza is written in past tense- “If you’ve BEEN wise…” , not “If you ARE…”

          The 4th stanza tells you WHAT to do AT the treasure location…LOOK DOWN, DON’T LOLLY GAG, TAKE IT QUICK, LEAVE CALMLY.

          The 5th stanza say WHY he did it.

          The 6th stanza is closure, stating if you’ve listened to poem, your efforts get you the cold bronze chest/cold gold inside the wood lined box (forested canyon? a play on words?)

          There isn’t a Canyon anywhere that does not have either a waterfall or a river/creek flowing into canyon that doesn’t have a waterfall. “Under my rainbow”…produced by mist from fall…”treasure is wet” (from mist).
          THAT’S my understanding of poem and partial solution. I’m searching areas that have all those qualifications, and Pinyon trees/sage brush.
          Picture a beautiful wide canyon, in the midst of the mountains. A gorgeous waterfall cascading down the side of the canyon into a trout filled, meandering green crystal clear river. Pinyon trees flurish at the 5000-8000ft altitude, green from the fall’s mist. The sun shines it’s western rays onto the canyon’s side, warming the air and releasing the pine and sage brush’s pungent aroma. The chest sits below the trees. A blaze on the canyon wall marks the spot to glance down AT the trees to the chest.
          A treasure poem MUST have 3 things:
          Directions to location
          Description of location
          Retrieval directions
          I’ve said too much, all IMO.
          Thanks for your time.
          ~Donna~

          • Donna M –

            The last part of your post reminded me of this……… All 4 “D’s” end the last word of the last stanza.

            Directions to location
            Description of location
            Directions to retrieval
            DIG

    • Joseph, Will, Seeker, Scott, Specialklr and others following this thread,

      If you’ve ever travelled outside the US and been in an area of the world where you don’t speak the native tongue, you will experience that when given directions on how to get to some place you’ve never been to before, almost invariably you will be given landmarks to look for along the way to aid your safe arrival to your destination. This is also true in the woods when looking at a topographical map and explaining to your fellow hunting party members where to meet up with after the drive. Rivers, mountains and valleys may have names attached to them, but those names do not aid you in traversing any of them to the end of the drive.

      Here’s what I’m getting at concerning the clues in the poem: what if the poem is a set of directions that is used as an “overlay” of a geographical area? One needs the directions, not only to find the place on the map to start, but also as directions to get to the point at the end of the search? Forrest took a long time to come up with this puzzle, that when once solved, it is simply a matter of following through. He could not depend on the names of things staying known over the many years that Indulgence may set in its resting spot. The puzzle has to be solved in a way that does not depend on the names of things being remembered far into the future – even the “home of Brown”. Rather, the poem holds the discriptions of things being referenced, so that anyone at anytime can solve the poem. The hard work is in the solving, not the boots on the ground. At least, that’s my take on the matter at this point.

      I don’t have a solve at this time, just hints and clues to deal with, just like the rest of you. In fact, the longer I work with what Ihave to work with, the longer I think it is going to take to solve.

      Hope this helps,

      • Swwot,
        Landmarks saved my skin at Big Bend National Park back in the 70’s. My first time backpacking. Took a topo showing streams that weren’t there. Ran out of water, lost the trail, but (here comes landmark part), as I was descending into the desert a fellow learning that I was ignorantly going hiking gave me a few pages with hand drawn pictures of mountains etc., eg Carasoul Mountain. I went cross desert, no trail but found the highway. So I will add this to my numerous approaches to a solve, thanks.

      • Couple of devil advocate ideas on this topic of names vs no names.

        Fenn has been very non-specific about what type of map might be beneficial. What do *all* maps have in common?……words and names. If you take the words, letters, numbers and names off a map you don’t have much information….just a bunch of lines.

        A topo map is somewhat different. Take away the names, etc and you still have a picture of the terrain (if you know how to read one) but imagine how difficult it would be to describe a place in the wilderness using just physical descriptions of the terrain. You would require a huge amount of adjectives and directions in order to adequately characterize the lay-of-the-land and give a picture of objects that another person could understand. Also remember that Fenn has said that we don’t need any “specialized knowledge” to find the TC.

        I don’t think there are enough words/information in the poem to do that. Now imagine that you are doing this nine times for 9 different points. Just not going to happen. The only thing that could make a different is if the place is such a prominent unique landmark (known by most) that the description is easy….less words/information to get you there. Now if you only have to do this for the 1st clue you’ve really cut down on the amount of info that must be relayed to the searcher.

        But the other problem is equally concerning. If the poem is referring to a name or named landmark how do we know that won’t change with time and invalidate his 100-1000 year goal? It was pointed out a while back that Mt McKinley is being renamed and that’s a pretty big landmark.

        So it is kind of a paradox.

        • Colokid and others,

          I like the way you think. More thoughts to throw in the blender. Let’s pretend you and I meet on the street in my home town and you are looking to go to the Dairy Queen because you crave an Oreo Blizzard. Let’s also pretend you don’t have a smart phone or GPS and you ask me for directions. So I take your shoulder and point you back down the sidewalk you just approached me on and I give you these nine clues:

          1. Go to the Burger King, see it down the road there?
          2. Go West (turn left) four blocks
          3. Arrive at the Bowling alley
          4. Go two more blocks South
          5. Arrive at the DQ, (it is on the NE corner of the intersection)
          6. Check the menu
          7. Order your treat
          8. Pay the lady (and give the coupon I gave you to get half-price)
          9. Enjoy the Blizzard

          How many “directions” did you need to actually get your Blizzard? All of them. Notice I only mentioned two landmarks – the Burger King and the Bowling alley. I gave you nine clues – do you need them all the same amount? No, some of the clues are more heavily weighted than others. Now add the complexity of not knowing what places the nine clues refer to in Forrest’s poem, along with where to start from and it is extremely challenging to find Indulgence.

          Yet, if we can figure out that starting point, that first clue, it is my opinion that the rest of the puzzle will fall into place and become that “aha” moment when we realize we figured it out. Then it is a “simple matter” of going into the wood and picking it up – ha!

          Hope this helps someone figure it out, I know it is still a mystery to me.

          • swwot,

            Sure that sounds simply but look what you did. You used lots of explicit directions (down, left, go, west, NE), action verbs (arrive, order, turn, pay), numbers (four, two), and landmark/proper names (Burger King, Bowling), units of measure (blocks).

            All of these things are conspicuously absent from the poem.

            It’s not the number of directions that poses the problem, it’s the lack of specific information that describes the actions. Heck the post office does it with about 5 (country, state, city, street, number).

            Turning a Fenn clue into a precise descriptor is a trick. Unless it’s something everyone knows about.

            Example: “Go to Old Faithful.” One and done….your at a specific spot (more or less…I think you get the point).

          • Colokid,

            I suspect we’re closer in our thinking than it appears on the surface. I was intentionally tryig to be obtuse in my example, so as to get us all thinking of the big picture, not the minutiae of exact descriptors.

            If one looks at the poem there are many “action words” in it, though not exacting examples, as in feet and inches. One must “do things” on the trail to the quarry. Do all the things listed in the poem carry the same weight in the quest? I think not. But one must do them all to find Indulgence.

          • swwot,

            Yeah I get it.

            You said: “Yet, if we can figure out that starting point, that first clue, it is my opinion that the rest of the puzzle will fall into place and become that “aha” moment when we realize we figured it out.”

            And I agree 100% that the clues are probably weighted with #1 tipping the scale big time. He has told us over and over that we won’t figure anything else out until we get 1, so that is essential. And I agree that once you have 1 the rest become easier and fall into place (although still not a slam-dunk)…IMO

          • I suspect that it is much easier than even your Dairy Queen example; something like… Start here, follow this path while looking to your left, see the blaze, go and pick up your soft serve cone. That’s only five clues, six if you consider that Forrest used two to get us to the “Start here.” Any other information given would be a hint; not necessary to solve the poem but helpful in preparing you for your journey to the soft serve.

          • I meant to add, seeing the Forrest for the trees, as it were.

            Or as Einstein said, “Make things as simple as possible, but not simpler.”

      • Colo –

        I don’t see lasting things being a problem – in the future and maybe even now – searchers are going to have to go back in time to when he actually hid the chest. It’s been five or six years and things change. We have the way back machine and the internet which will take serious searchers there.

        • This is probably a moot point, but when fenn first thought of this in 1988… did even even know about the internet or consider it.
          My point is… do we really have the need of such information when we have been told, the poem, the book and a good map is all you need. Yes fenn said GE but that is just a good mapping avenue. Fenn also stated the more detailed the map the better. And I’ll add… one of the reasons for the chase was to get away from gadgets like the computer [ lol we are a poor example of that]

          I can see the information hwy. being around for sometime to come, yet are we desperately looking at so much stuff, we don’t see what was given to us to start? a book containing a poem and a challenge.

      • SWWOT, that is EXACTLY what I described in my comments above! When treasure maps were first created and designed, alot of locations had no name, just descriptives.
        I think the first stanza explains the features associated with the beginning (wwwh). The actual physical action starts in stanza 2.

        I think that’s why F mentioned about places that were there as a kid = landmarks. F couldn’t just come out and say, start at Brown Mt, take Ojo Canyon, stop at Rainbow falls, look at Marble Cliff then down. It’s all descriptives, and that’s why it’s so hard to figure out! It takes imagination to figure out a descriptive, not “knowlege”, as F says! Everyone has a diff level of thinking, thus head~butting and disagreements are inevitable!
        I think the area is such a notable landmark, no name is needed, just geographic knowledge. Most places have names now. But when F explored this special area, I think he started at a known area then took off Lewis & Clarking, as he does, and found his special spot. If it’s say, located in Lewis and Clark forrest, the topo map doesn’t name every Ridge and gorge/canyon.
        But I do feel, WWWH does have a name. From there, you follow unnamed descriptives.
        Also, just need the poem, a map may be “helpful”, as F said, to get to Wwwh.

        • Donna,
          IMO this is a good line of thinking but as I said above, my concern is the amount of info that might be required to describe something sufficiently. If the landmark was that prominent as to require very few details, I would expect it to have a name. I working along these same lines though.

  9. This is the place where I ain’t saying nothing until I do my last final search next summer

    • This is the place where I let it all hang loose.

      Dude – feedback is way better than the taste of crow. IMO

      Scott W

    • Nobody knows when that last final search comes, so hopefully you’ve found what your looking for before then. IMO

  10. Hi Goofy, Sometime in Sept. you mentioned knowing where the chest is, but not able to actually locate it… are you interested in a legal binding partnership? If so and you can get me with in 1 mile sq. of the 10 in box… I’ll find it. Sounds brazen? well I have 18 yrs experience searching wilderness areas for evidence, people etc. I’m new to this game, I only heard about it about 6 weeks ago. I have a few ideas of my own as to location, but as its not in my mountains , it makes it more of a challenge for me. I’ve only been through the Rockies about 3 times, and never had the chance to hike around. Let me know if you are interested.

    • 21 ponies I think this is the comment you are talking about where I stated: I still have a few problems even though I know where the chest is.

      http://dalneitzel.com/2015/09/26/the-nine-clues-31/#comment-105140

      What I was talking about is using a mapping program with different sets of GIS data layers. So I do know where the chest is using the criteria Fenn has given us (as we all do). Using the mapping software we can look at different scenarios; elevations between 5,000 and 10,200 feet, public vs. private land for example and see where those areas are on a map.

      I do appreciate the offer but I’m not looking for a partner. I started to say if I could narrow it down to one square mile I would go get it myself. But after giving that some thought; searching one square mile in the Rockies could be a very daunting task so I’ll keep your offer in mind.

      Again, thanks for the offer and good hunting to you.

  11. Count (and others),

    Dal closed comments before I could reply, but you wondered aloud how something could be both old and new 1000 years into the future. What follows is not Einstein’s theory of relativity – it’s mine. 🙂

    Regardless of when you first find an old artifact that is valuable or have an insight, it is new to you – and that’s what I think Forrest is talking about in the poem – relative discovery. He had at least two “aha” moments that he shares in his memoirs – stumbling over the gravestones and blotting out the entire city of Philadelphia with his thumb. While the places and concepts we are experiencing can be old, we all can have new discoveries and insights about our surroundings.

    And if we reveal what we’ve learned – it truely is a revelation, as something that has been lost now has been found, and shared.

    Of course, this is all my opinion.

    • Good insight but one of the things I did after posting that question was go back to the poem and read it imagaining that it was a 1000 years in the future and a few things did stick out to me. I would sugest that searchers do that to gain some insight, considering Fenn believes it may be a long time until his poem is sovled. Maybe searchers in the future might have a different out look on the poem believing it did stand the test of time?

  12. Has anyone looked around the Great Sand Dunes in Colorado? The tallest dunes in North America and definitely what I would consider brown. The winds in the San Luis Valley have been picking up sand and depositing it at it’s new “home” for hundreds of thousands of years.
    Plus the Jicarilla Apache name for the dunes translates to “it goes up and down” just like the word Brown in the poem goes up and down by using a capitol letter and then lower case letters.

    • Springer –

      No – I have never considered that. Is it in the Rockies? Not sure – check his map – anyway if he placed it there – we will never find it – and IMO would be rather unfair. Just don’t see him doing that as the game would not be fun for him then,

      Brown goes up and down ? How does that happen?

    • Springer,
      I think I’ve read that people have searched there…perhaps Diggin Gypsy?

      I would say it’s in the RM’s as they lie on the west flank of the Sangre de Cristos. There’s also intermittent water flow through the dunes at certain times of the year that makes for an interesting WWWH.

      The main problem would be that the dunes constantly shift so one of two things would happen to something left there: A) It gets hopelessly buried under tons of sand, B) the sand blows off and exposes it to be stumbled across by any passer-by.

      I guess it could be in the vicinity (not on the sand) but I can’t make a solution out of it using all the clues.

  13. So maybe we need to just say the 9 clues are the nine sentences. It makes the most sense to me that we arent dissecting the poem and saying this is a clue that isnt, but saying each sentence is a clue. The first sentence puts you in the area. The second sentence lets you know where to start in that area. The ones after are directions, and the last few are how you find the chest when in the area. That makes the most sense to me. Not WWWH, then canyon down, then tftw then hob. Does that make sense? Anyone else thinking that way?

    • Sure, make perfect sense. Lets look at it from what we know of… doesn’t discount words. 9 clues = full poem. consecutive order. hopefully straightforwards [ once the whole solve comes together] The other thing that I have talked about is, the CLUE[s] themselves.

      As you said Nate, breaking down into lines seems to me, wasting a lot of the poem as hearsay or a stanza as an intro or another just as a fill in to make things rhyme. If that were true the poem only needed to be three stanza long [ by what most consider clues… anyways ]. But what is a true clue? I voice this before as we have been told no outhouse a clue, not in a graveyard a clue etc. are they really clues? Fenn uses the word clue a lot, and I think he does this for; 1) to evoke suspense 2) not to explain what a clue is by saying it’s all clues. If he separated WWWH is a hint and hoB is a clue, and brave is a hint and cold is a clue… he would be solving the poem for us. That’s are job, right?

      What he does, is say “hint” in the poem. Could it be that the poem is all hints and when we solve the poem’s 9 sentences [ what he means in each sentence ]. We have the whole solution? I think this is a simple as KiSS can be. Or just pick any 9 lines ya like and have a go at it…

      Six questions yet again: 
      3Q)  In your memoir, The Thrill of the Chase, after the poem, you mention there are subtle clues sprinkled throughout that book.  You have said you hadn’t deliberately placed these subtle hints in your book; but have you done so in any of your other writings mentioned in Question two (scrapbooks, vignettes, etc)?  Or, even if maybe not purposely sprinkled in those writings of Q2, would you consider some of those to contain subtle hints too, like in The Thrill of the Chase? 
      I don’t want to broaden the clues and hints I’ve written about by pointing them out. What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve. ff

      Is 9 sentences = 9 clues the important possibility? I don’t know, could be. There have been a few fun polling’s taken on what searcher think are the 9 clues… most use stanza 234 to contain those ever important clues. I have always found that interesting.

      just saying.

      • Seeker,

        you wrote – “most use stanza 234 to contain those ever important clues. I have always found that interesting.”

        I can honestly say, that IMO stanza 6 is a must have. Heck, just go back and look at all my wacky posts.

        Stanza 1 – lot’s of ideas about that. Some plausible, but most aren’t.

        Stanza 5 – that’s a tough one. Stanza 5 is where I am focusing most of my new thought. Why? Because I have yet to read anyone post a plausible interpretation of what it means. Heck, I rarely read anyone post even an idea of what they think it means.

        I’m beginning to think that perhaps door #5 is the key to unlocking this poem.

        Scott W

        • By “most” do you mean, my brilliant stanza 1 theory… I’m hurt! ok I’m over it now.
          Stanza 5 is intriguing, yet, you know, it can’t be the staring point right?

  14. Dal, isn’t there a way to subscribe without making a comment? There must be a lot of “subscribe” comments taking up blog space. Feedback requested.

  15. I saw further up in this feed someone stating something about, “if you were within 12 feet of the treasure, you couldn’t miss it.” Can someone tell me if that is a direct quote from Forrest? If so, how can you be within 12 feet of the treasure and not miss it, but someone cannot stumble upon it?

    • In the foothills of the Appalachians there are numerous small depressions where you can stand in one spot in the forest and see down inside of them, and if you walk away just a few steps they become invisible in the underbrush. I can imagine any number of ways where something could be hidden in plain sight so that unless you are looking for it you would walk right past what was hidden. I’ve been less then 10 feet from a deer standing motionless (both of us), then I moved after standing there for 15 or 20 minutes, and when I moved it moved, scaring me half to death. (It was a doe and I couldn’t shoot it.)

    • The ’12 feet’ comment from Forrest is here:

      “Second, I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”
      http://dalneitzel.com/2014/06/25/scrapbook-seventy-eight/

      Regarding your last question, perhaps Forrest planned for people roaming the wilderness (hunters, hikers/backpackers, soul-searchers, search & rescue, etc.) and concealed or disguised it so additional effort is required to “find it.” Note that he says “find it” and not “see it.”

      Best of luck.
      Joe

  16. In my list of water lines I left out a rather important one, WWWH which might be cold still water as in a pool in a river/creek.

  17. Hi seekers, I threw I my best solve two days ago, but another area I was looking at that I think is really interesting but I couldn’t put things together was Mammoth hot springs.
    I threw all my ideas out the other day except for this because I am unable to put boots on the ground. Hopefully this will help some.

    Halt in the dictionary means freeze. Mammoth hot springs has been described many times as warm waters that freeze. Mammoth has Minerva , Jupiter terrace are there as well as Devils Thumb. All interesting to me.
    Just to the west is Pinyon Terrace, Snow Pass and an unnamed creek on old maps. Think of a athletic jersey you buy and it says your name on the back, meaning put your name on it because it is unnamed such as Your creek.
    Also the terrace mountain above Pinyon terrace . Terrace is part of a house, maybe home of Brown travertine tile?
    Snow Pass could be cold.
    To the south is The hoodoos and golden gate canyon as well as silver gate. In the same area is Sheepeater which could be no place for the meek. Look up sheep, timid , spiritless just like meek. You wouldn’t want to be a sheep here because you would be eaten.
    Clagett Butte on the other side of the Snow pass interesting as well.
    All of these things are within the same area.
    Just a lot of ides I collected. Hope this helps someone.
    Good luck everyone,
    Paul

  18. Nate:

    In reference to your 7:58AM comment, I believe it is important that you know there are many out there who are approaching the solve as you have described.
    I have been an advocate of the KISS approach as it applies to the poem and the search because I believe FF wanted it that way. All kinds of folks out there seeking the TC, and FF wants everyone to have a fair shot. Remember, FF’s objective was to get America off the couch and to stop the development of their fingers exercising their electronic devices. I believe that he meant “treasures new and old” or something like that was to reflect the wonderful old treasures in the box and the new treasures of finding the outdoors and exploring the wilds, especially with the family. He experienced that as a kid and most likely with his dad. We have already heard of the “New Treasure” experiences from so many searchers. But of course, all in my humble opinion.

    • Seeker, I agree with your last comment.
      Bigskip, you rock! Same way I think, KISS! I only use a map or GE when I figure out a clue that fits a spot. I’m very familiar with the RM’S geology composition and features of interest. I’m at the point where I am looking at maps more, to locate areas I’m not so familiar with.
      I’m still a poem and book gal! As long as I can relate to the blog and my friEnds, I’ll keep on plugging.
      Btw, has anyone looked into geothermal fracture lines in the RMs? Just an idea…

  19. Hey Colokid… over at the other nine clues thread, regarding whether the poem could pre-determine the blaze, I commented:

    “If ‘blaze’ defines as an object, I’m struggling to find a way that it could be pre-determined by the poem just on face value of what you have in the poem.”

    In the interest of self-correcting, I did think of how one might conceivably pre-determine the nature of the blaze just on face value poem material. “The end is ever drawing nigh;” line could foreshadow it if the blaze is some sort of drawing on a rock, tree, etc — petroglyphs, carvings, clearings that look like a campfire. I even used that in my own solve back in June, soooo… oops 🙂

      • Yes, it’s located here:

        http://dalneitzel.com/2015/06/15/search-new-mexico/

        With some (not directly related) followup tips here:

        http://dalneitzel.com/2015/08/21/geometry/

        Disclaimer:

        Looking back, I didn’t substantiate my choices as well as I could have in the write up. This was early in my hanging out at the blog. There’s a lot of smart people here! Now that I’ve been here a bit, I know that when I say things like “Agua Fria means cold water in Spanish” I’m going to get some eye rolls. But there are some very good reasons to employ Spanish in the solve that I didn’t cover. I also have new info, such as a photo of his 4WD vehicle (didn’t know he had one at the time) and I have a reference for his use of “meek” (an actual source where he used the word).

        Basically, I stand by the solve… just not the telling of it. 🙂

        • But I should add that I don’t really have any solutions. At best all I have are anti-solutions. I can tell you all the things wrong with it as readily as anything good about it.

          I’m OK with that, though. I was just looking for an excuse to have an adventure. Got to climb a mountain in New Mexico with my dad and my brothers and that’s really what it was about.

          • Unless Forrest tells you that your starting point is correct you are waisting your time, we know he will never do that. The words “imagination” and “luck/chance” appear on the dust jacket. F himself has stated “I do not know that my poem will lead a person to the treasure” and “if you can think my thoughts” we are approaching the 6 year mark with every single searcher coming up empty. For the record I do believe there is a treasure (I question the poems ability to lead a person to that treasure) see you at the slot machines.

            Bon chance

          • Geeze Marcella, yet another disgruntled searcher.

            Arrogance is when you can’t find the chest; it means it can’t be found by anyone. Mighty bold talk for a one eyed fat woman. 🙂

          • Marcella –

            I think when FF said that he did not know if his poem would work.

            But, as he said over at Jenny’s – I know now – it’s working……. ( paraphrased ) I’ve looked for THAT statement but can’t find it …..

            If anyone can find it – I would love it – if you would post it.

          • @ into

            (We don’t really know what he’s talking about what does well mean? No one has gotten past number 2 clue???

            I worked on it (the poem) for a long time and am pleased that it did its job so well. f

            No one has given me the correct solve past the first two clues.f

            Mr. Fenn, After reading the blogs and personal emails from hunters over the past three months, do you think anyone is any closer to discovering the location of the treasure? ~ Madeline

            No Madeline, I don’t, but then I haven’t read most of the blogs. f

            I don’t know “…that the poem will lead someone there,” as you asked, but the poem does provide everyone with that opportunity. f

          • “Did it’s job so well” my interpretation of well = confused 99.9% of us. A few of us got the first two clues right but apparently did even know it.

          • Marcella –

            You sound mad – and if you get in that state – I hope it will pass – been there done that.

            There is an answer to everything he said.

            Have you ever thought that maybe the first two clues are not a place? It would explain the comments.

          • Stay positive, treasure is all around, its the little things that matter.

            Flowers… are a proud assertion that a ray of beauty outvalues all the utilities of the world.

            Ralph Waldo Emerson

        • Hi Jeremy,

          You said: “The end is ever drawing nigh;” line could foreshadow”….

          This does seem to make sense in light of the past-tense nature of “if you’ve been Wise”. petroglyphs, and rock carving could be possibilities but I would say no to a clearing….just to likely to change with vegetation growth season to season.

          I have looked into Spanish places and phrases as well…nothing wrong with Agua Fria if you think WWWH means a change from warm to cooler temps. What surprises me a little is that no one seems interested in going from warm to hotter. Seems like you could make the same case that rising temperatures also appear to be an end to warm. I don’t advocate that line of thinking though….just saying.

          • It sounds like the chest is secure for centuries, many of the places the clues refer to might be around in a hundred years, but I don’t personally see any issues with hypothetical markers disappearing in the near term. We might get one shot at this to solve it in Fenn’s lifetime before it becomes a time capsule like the bronze jars, with diminishing chances of being found.

            That said…

            This “blaze” would definitely survive the test of time for many decades to come. Here’s a photo of it up close:

            http://bit.ly/1hJ0Aig

            Maybe “clearing” is the wrong word, because it’s a boulder field that has remained relatively unchanged for the past couple of decades (I think Google Earth goes back to 1990 or so). A few trees here or there won’t substantially change the shape of it. The old logging roads crossing Touch-Me-Not have been unused for many decades now and they still cut lines across it. Of all the things I came up with, this is probably the thing that will still be around in a 100 years.

            Unfortunately, I’m only interested in tasks I can personally accomplish, and I took my shot. I can’t search this area with my limited resources, and I definitely can’t look under every rock. I don’t have a ton of money make repeat trips, I have a day job, etc. As a bonus, this is a photo of me giving up:

            http://bit.ly/1OIRSgX 🙂

            As far as Agua Fria goes, I dunno. You may be right.

          • Jeremy –

            I’m glad you had a trip with your family – and that’s really what it’s all about.

            PS – I like your hat and walking stick – I have a good walking stick too. 🙂 Oh yah I have a hat like that too……….

          • I do not know where the treasure is, but I do know this: if you’re going to go looking for it, you have to buy the hat. 🙂

          • Jeremy,
            I looked at your picture. One thing I have concluded after a number of searches is that I think the blaze needs to be pretty specific. Your rock slide appears significant so depending on how you intend to use it, you could be in a needle/haystack situation. e.g. looking under all those rocks would be daunting.

            Not sure how familiar you are with the RM’s but slides like this are a dime a dozen so I would consider if this is unique enough…just saying.

            Lastly I would consider that since you are looking at a rock slide, how stable is that area? Is the area prone to near term avalanches, other slides, etc that could alter the area? Would this be a safe place to stash something long term? These are things I would consider….I would have expected F to have considered these things as well.

            Lastly, I hate seeing those “giving up” photos. Hang in there.

          • In my very humble opinion – everyone will be shocked at how many blazes are in the chase – I was. I know it says “blaze” singular – but that’s just not the way my solve turned out.

            I agree with Colo – the treasure will be in a relatively safe place – no rock slides near. He did think of everything – he had 15 years to do that.

          • It’s not really like that out there. My spot was a little ways below the “blaze” (you have to be below it to be at 10,200 ft) and it’s not much of a rock slide area. But the entire mountain is made out of that material and the type of changes you’re talking about, the ones that would matter, occur over centuries. You’re going to find that anywhere, and Fenn acknowledges that. There’s not anywhere that wouldn’t be affected by centuries of change.

            It’s OK though. On the off chance it is out there on Touch-Me-Not, it wouldn’t be found by me.

            I’m not out. I’m just out for the rest of this year, but might try another area next year.

      • I thought about what I should have wrote for my solve and came up with this instead:

        Every autobiography highlights parts of the author’s life they feel is important to share. Many skip over early school memories and focus, instead, on later life experiences involving their career. FF chose to devote a few chapters to his school years, and the bulk of that involves things he was doing in Spanish class. It’s a significant portion of the book, and involves details that aren’t necessary to share to tell the basic story. While you certainly don’t have to, it makes sense to employ Spanish in a solve.

        A possible clue in the poem is “Begin it where warm waters halt”. Warm waters do stop being warm when they encounter cold waters. While you certainly don’t have to, it makes sense if you choose “cold water” as an answer.

        Agua Fria means “cold water” in Spanish. Agua Fria is a prominent area of Santa Fe, where Forrest Fenn lives. There are a total of 32 “Agua Fria” entries in the GNIS for New Mexico. Of those, only about half represent geological locations or place names. From this group, almost all of the ones north of Santa Fe refer to areas of Colfax County. One of these place names just happen to be at the intersection of US 64 and NM 434. This intersection just happens to be the intersection between the a small airport and a notable Vietnam War Memorial. The Vietnam War Memorial is a unique one, a first of its kind, opened just one year before FF moved to New Mexico. The airport, mere walking distance away, is likely one he used when visiting. While you certainly don’t have to, it makes sense to start a Vietnam pilot’s journey at an airport, a few hundred feet away from a prominent memorial, at an intersection that also happens to be an answer to what a lot of people think is the first clue, one that “many searchers have identified [as] the first clue” (albeit in different ways).

        Oh, AND there’s a really cool mountain nearby that you have to take a 4WD up a narrow slippery road to get to a place that’s just incredible. That’s why I couldn’t help but go.

  20. This was buried in the “no reply possible” section. So I moved it down here.

    _________________________________________________________

    specialklr
    on October 15, 2015 at 12:41 am said:
    Scott, I have a serious problem trying to take your interesting riddles that do not require a specific sequence of their clues and compare that to Mr. Fenn’s poem.

    Taken in any sequence, your riddle would still come out the same. Perhaps a siren?

    Forrest has warned against attempting to take his clues out of sequence.

    This is what makes sense to me (MO). Be careful whom you listen to.
    _________________________________________________________

    Specialklr,

    The reason I post those examples is in an effort to shed light on a broader line of thinking on how to solve the poem. Let’s face it, the way of the last years just ain’t working. Perhaps it is time to look at this from a different angle.

    Each line in the whale poem gave a hint as to what the “thing” was. Why can’t we look at the Fenn poem in the same light, except maybe it is a “where” solve?

    I didn’t put that poem out there as a challenge to solve it. I put it out there as a challenge to look at the Fenn poem with a fresh set of eyes.

    For those of you who are in the multiple layer camp, this method would fit nicely. Perhaps we use the clues to find out where we need to start. Perhaps all nine of them are needed to get us there.

    In a multi-layered approach, the poem would have to remain intact to move us from the starting point in solve “A” to the resting point in solve “B”.

    I’m not saying it’s one way or another – just throwin’ it out there for thought. I’m trying to use this message board for its intended use. Exchange of ideas.

    Scott W

    • Thanks, Scott.

      I have no idea what the “no reply possible” section is. I’ve been emailing with Dal about not getting emails on my postings???

      I appreciate your open mindedness. A closed mind can be dangerous.

      I’m working on an idea that I haven’t seen on this blog. It’s just been hard to devote the time needed. I believe there are enough super minds on here that someone someday will solve this. 🙂

  21. I’m going to toss an idea out there for searchers. If someone of us have been close to the treasure, then they have the right area. IMO I think if we take our possible area solution to the poem and keep the area, but look at substitute (second or third choices) to the solution.

  22. I wish there was a thread other than here for this. If there is let me know and we can move it.

    This is just a thought. I have written about this in the past.

    Join me to a journey in time, The day the book was released to the public. Now imagine, if you can, that for whatever reason, Fenn was unable to communicate after that date.

    What do you have to work with? “The Thrill of the Chase”, the contents within, and what ever you could dig up on Forrest Fenn. That’s all.

    Imagine no book signings, no radio, YouTube, network, or written interviews. How would you tackle solving the poem?

    Now think about this. His book was released and sold only at one local bookstore. Who do you think he hid the treasure for? Did he hide for those in the UK, Texas, Montana, or Virginia? Perhaps this is why he thought the chest would be hidden for 100 years; simply because it would take that long for the story to get out. OR – perhaps he never intended it (the story) to travel so far from home in the first place.

    In the first edition of the book he placed his phone number right there with his email address. Why would an author do such a thing if he planned on the story extending beyond the local crowd? He was saying, “Hey!, give me a call if you have a question or comment”.

    So, I ask, Had you been one of the first to run across this book, in a little store that had exclusive rights to distribution, where would you think the chest was hidden?

    Would you seriously think it was in Montana, or would you lean to the mountains closer to “North of Santa Fe”?

    I say all this with a bit of hypocrisy because I am not focused in New Mexico. However, I still think about this a lot.

    So, where would you be looking if Fenn had never gone public with any additional hints, clues, or promotion had you found this book in a local Santa Fe bookstore?

    Scott W

    • Good questions Scott.

      I don’t know how I would have done it differently. I started with just the book and the poem. I didn’t start reading any of the blogs or watching any You Tube videos or research Forrest in any way until after my one and only failed attempt.

      I started closer to Santa Fe. But in studying the book and poem felt a pull further north. I’m in the Montana camp now.

      • Ramona,
        That’s a good camp to be in. No doubt F’s influence touches the big sky. Reminds me of Northern Exposure the series which I never watched but always wished I had. When I was living in Wyoming I always enjoyed the freedom associated with that northern lifestyle.

    • Scott,

      I concur. We need to go back to before it all mushroomed on the internet. It gets harder to see the trees for the forest, as the saying goes – pun not intended. There is so much information out there, and most if it is well meant – however, much of it is misinformation and leads down rabbit holes. Of late, collectively we’ve all hashed out the whole Andrew Briggs solve, et al.

      It is my opinion that stepping back, almost secluding one’s self from the “outside noise” is what it’s going to take to solve the puzzle. Speaking personally, my curiosity is always piqued by the latest piece of information, so here I am on the blog always scouring and lurking, looking for that next little tidbit that will unlock the riddle and lead to a solid solve. I think that’s just human nature.

      But I am in agreement to your thoughts of “going back to the beginning” and giving it a fresh go with a clean slate before me.

      So, what are the nine clues? For me, this is an unknown quandary, as I have never with any personal conviction, identified all nine clues found within the poem. And taking into account some of what I wrote in yesterday’s responses, I am not sure that all nine are in the first layer of the poem. Conversely, maybe more than nine “directions” are listed in the poem, some of them being clues and others leading to clues. It is definitely a puzzle, this one is.

      Good luck to any that are still afield yet this season looking for Indulgence.

      • Two borderline biddies. That would bring someone to Wyoming or if from Texas it would bring you to Colorado. He said you don’t NEED the book. I see many red herrings for people to find, but I always cross examine my solution against not NEEDING the book to know if I can do it without the book.

      • All you need is the poem don’t allow the things said online to wayver you focus of the poem. Most should spend more time working on the poem and being in the wilderness then spending 99% of the search in front of there computer but on this one I should take my own advice.

    • Scott.
      I have thoughts just like anyone else here about what you have brought up in your post. Many moons ago Sidncharlie brought up the same discussion… slightly different, but same premise…
      You took it a step or so farther, by asking what about the location of the sole sale of the book and why a phone number/contact information in the original print.

      I think fenn had that information in there just simple to do what is being done today… hear stories of people influenced by the book. After all that was one of the reasons he did this, to influence generations to come. Most other book are just stories, yet his gave a challenge, and he wanted to see how it took, some other treasure hunt books have this contact information in it as well… in one form or another. So this isn’t a surprise to me.

      Location of the sale? a little tougher to calculate, but maybe the simple answers are… friendship and business dealing with that proprietor [ I don’t know ]. Maybe he didn’t want big business involved so he has some control of his pet project. He did open his own publishing company that seemed to be just for this book only. Sooo again who knows. But for me personally to think it was done just for a local on a search area is just a hunch at best.

      I could argue that the book talks about his love of Yellowstone and the younger fenn’s Huck Finn and Tom sawyer attitude point to that area. His interest in explorers / trail blazer / trappers lead [ in part ] to the northern states as well. Personally I don’t allow myself to think why any place should be looked into because of all those reasons you mentioned, as it causes bias and forcing the poem into a single direction… I approach it as the poem will tell me. Right or wrong… for me that is the safest route imo.

      And I whole heartily agree, if the poem, with the ‘assistance’ of the book can’t do this, something is wrong with this big picture.
      This is all we had from the start. And imo all we should use to a final resolve. That said… are SB’s and such interesting and helpful? Yes, to a point. Are they ‘ necessary ‘ for a solution to find the trove…IMO… No. if they are or ever intended to be, then the original thought out plan is a failure… I don’t believe that for a second.

      • Seeker,

        I agree with most of what you said, if I cock my head at a certain angle. 🙂

        Although I wrote about me not being able to get the “local” aspect out of my head, I also mentioned that I am not currently searching in NM. So, take it with a grain of salt – I just think about this a lot.

        One thing that you said that especially got my attention:

        Your words between the bars.
        _____________________________
        “I think fenn had that information in there just simple to do what is being done today… hear stories of people influenced by the book. After all that was one of the reasons he did this, to influence generations to come.”
        ______________________________

        He wouldn’t have taken the phone number out in subsequent printings unless the chase just grew to a point where he couldn’t manage the phone calls. IMO, the phone number was in there for the locals.

        If Fenn really did think of everything (as he has stated), then that might mean he never intended for the book to become viral. The fact that he removed his phone number indicates that he didn’t “think of everything” and was forced to remove it.

        So, that brings me back to that thought. Why did he think he could publish his home phone number in the first place?

        Some of the above is in my own opinion. Some is not an opinion, but just a thought put on a blog hoping to get answers to a long burning question.

        Scott W

        • Sure, the local population would be the closest to the sale of the book… But after the story broke to national, I think he was forced to remove that contact information because of the crazies, to be honest. and imo why the other prints lack them.

          I see your point… yet, if the true intent was to look 100 ~ a 1000 years down the road. How could anyone think of everything concerning searchers. I maybe be wrong here but that “think of everything” has been blow a bit out of proportion imo. I lean towards, the way he wrote the poem to be difficult but not impossible, information in the poem and help from the book, the reason for hidden vs buried… think cache, How he planned to pull it all off with no one knowing… family and friends, His original intent and how to plan that as well. even considering how the reader would precede with what was available to them.

          It is true that from the start, we did not know the RM’s meant the mountains… was this part of the difficulty. we did not no Canada is out of the running as well. When folks started searching, they were in Nevada, Arizona, Idaho, Utah etc. you have to ask yourself why fenn thought it was safe to eliminate these places? Because of NM? Or because all four remaining states have one thing in common that those other places do not.

          Hint / important? or just curious.

          • Seeker,

            I think we are on the same page here for the most part.

            In regard to your last paragraph about the search area. I think about this as well, as it appears to be a possible contradiction to my burning question mentioned above.

            Let’s go on my premise that the poem was written for locals. Then, after the search exploded and people where searching six states and Canada, Fenn felt compelled to eliminate all but four states. Why? Four states is still astronomically huge, especially if you are looking for a tiny box. He might as well not eliminated anything.

            So, I must ask myself why he felt the elimination was necessary. Why let someone keep search in one state where the chest is not, but tell others searching in another state that it is not there?

            Why eliminate Idaho, but not Montana? Why eliminate Idaho, but not Colorado?
            Why eliminate Idaho, but not Wyoming?
            Why eliminate Idaho, but not New Mexico?

            If we want to take Fenn’s “after-the-fact” clues as truth, then his territory elimination clue might just be the most important one. Not because he narrowed it down to four states, but because he felt it necessary to do at all.

            And that logic, correct or not, might suggest that we reel the search state back in to the original point of origin. Perhaps we need to be looking near the origin of the “big bang” and not the galaxies on the horizon.

            Scott W

          • Q1werty2 asked: “So, I must ask myself why he felt the elimination was necessary. Why let someone keep search in one state where the chest is not, but tell others searching in another state that it is not there?”

            One theory: what if he discovered (after the fact) that a significant number of his intended clues in the poem could just as easily point to a completely different, unintended, incorrect solution in the wrong state? That’s one danger of having clues that are too vague: they could end up fitting more than one location. There is certainly some hard data to support this theory: thousands of people looking in completely the wrong places. Perhaps he chose to eliminate a few “troublesome” states that had locations that inadvertently matched too many of his clues.

  23. Stanza #1

    I don’t see too much ever posted on this. Why not. Heck, it’s over 16% of the poem.

    Any comments about what it means?

    Stanza #5

    Same thing. Add stanza #1 to this and we are (most of us) missing out on a third of the poem.

    Why do we choose to ignore these two stanzas most of the time Is it because they contain so much information that you don’t want to mention it? OR – is it because you can’t find anything there? If the later, then I suggest we start considering the possibility that these two stanza hold the missing pieces that crack the nut.

    Scott W

    • Scott, I agree! Look at the two stanzas side by side…
      As I have gone alone in there
      So why is it that I must go

      And with my treasure bold
      And leave my trove for all to seek

      I can keep my secret where
      The answer (s) I already know

      And hint of riches new and old
      I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak

      It’s pretty interesting, the similarities…

    • Scott/swwot,
      I agree that we need to keep an open mind as to what constitutes a clue and consider all the lines. I sometimes think I can get something out of stanza 1, 5, and 6 but it always feels like I have to force it.

      Having said that, the lines in stanza’s 2, 3, and part of 4 just “sound” different and “feel” more cryptic. They don’t sound like normal talk, they sound as if they are “hiding” further information. I have always wondered if the line “hear me all and listen good” is a pointer to that.

      I would also point to the CBC interview http://lummifilm.com/blog/CBC2013.mp3 and the exchange between F and the reporter where he implies that there are 3-4 clues in stanza 2 and “at least” a couple more in stanza 3. He also seems to confirm that WWWH, and HOB are things that must be solved. I realize that his statements are not definitive but give strong evidence that perhaps most of the clues are contained in those stanzas. He even uses the phase “sounds like it to me” and “sounds like a couple more to me” (paraphrasing). In addition, in the Outside mag interview he does state directly that the Blaze is a clue. If we accept this then most of the clues are accounted for in those 3 stanzas.

      This is not to say there isn’t other info in the way of hints elsewhere.

      Seeker points out that he said: “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them.” and I realize this seems to be a contradiction but there are many “paradoxes” in what he says. For instance, many people still have a hard time with the distinction he made between a clue and hint, and he has sometimes used these terms interchangeability lending more confusion. It’s hard to sort out what’s important. Everyone has to decide for themselves what to include.

      It get’s frustrating and that’s when people start grabbing at anything he says outside the poem and try to make use of it.

      • Colokid.

        I get the frustration part of outside information. yet we do need to give credence to what the Author of the book is telling us. How we use that is the frustrating part, and still there is a need for reviewing them… just has helpful, yet not concrete informative thinking.
        Example: fenns comments on codes and cipher, bible, latin etc. stated “over” complicating. The quote above states “over” simplifying. as well as other statements with same language. [ Many WWWH in the RM’s is another one of the top of my head ]

        When I read these statements, I try and look at the overall view and not just a single comment. Not unlike the statements of the first two clues and folks going by the other seven was being discuss earlier, and has been for years… IMO, now ” I ” have a final answer to this dilemma… how others see it, is up to them. Yet without the friendly debates, I may have not looked into them as hard as i did, or should have from the start.

        The clues vs hint, I stated before that “I think” he uses the word “clues” in ‘most cases’ when talking about the chase, so not to give away exactly what a clue is to a hint. If he did separate what is a clue to what is a hint… he would essentially be telling us how to solve the poem. The one consistency fenn has states on is… he will not aid a seeker. Those comments and statements [ will not aid ] are non- debatable. He has been very adamant about that.

        I personally think comments and statements, just for reminders and constructive information is needed. One important reason is… just to keep that information as correct as possible for whatever a searcher uses them for.

      • Colokid et al,
        I like trying to analyze apparent contradictions to see if I can solve them out to be true. Still working on this one but would be interested in other contradictions that might need some twisting to make sense. If there are several maybe we could ask for a thread for this topic. So if a solve of an apparent contradiction would help with the poem and nine clues 😉 let others know and bend them a little.

        • Uken2it,

          I also do this. I try to figure out under what circumstances both (seemingly opposite statements) could make sense. It’s a good exercise.

          Another thing I do is look carefully at things he refuses to answer, or things that seem to be left intentionally unsaid.

          I don’t know whether most people grasp the fact that there can be a lot of information is in these items.

          • uken2it – I like your methodology. 🙂

            Colokid – Yes to 1, Yes to 2 and as far as #3…..I think that is readily apparent… 🙂 🙂

          • Colloid,
            I enjoy puzzles and challenges, that is why I enjoy the chase smooch. Reconciling apparent contradictions like a mini challenge within the main challenge, i.e. the chase. Silence can be deafening at times and my wheels start turning also. So things like these are part of my thrill of the chase.

    • when I started the chase I came up with a partial solve where stanza 1 and 5 became a way to understand stanza 6 based on a timeline solve of the poem. I can elaborate more if any would like.

        • Ok here it goes, when looking at stanza 1 and 5 we see Fenn in action, actions that can be put in a timeline. In stanza 1 Fenn is on his journey to hide the chest and we know it is in his posession. Latter in stanza 4 he tells of a blaze and the one who finds it finds the chest and the quest has ceased. So why is there more poem? In stanza 5 Fenn says he has done it meaning at this point he hide his trove and it has beem found. So why stanza 6? In any journey you have a 2 way trip one to get there and one way to get back. This is where this solve gets tricky the last stanza (which in this solve there would be 2 clues in the last stanza) can only be completed by the one that finds the chest and this would do on the return trip. Suffer the cold then walk back through the woods. Allowing the clues to be continueous but not done in order. Coming out of the woods with the chest would be earning the title.
          all above is IMO

          • Count,
            You said; Latter in stanza 4 he tells of a blaze and the one who finds it finds the chest and the quest has ceased.

            I think this maybe why some think the next stanzas are of lesser value than the others [ for lack of a better term]
            I’m not sure what you mean by ” he tells of a blaze” is it not saying you found the blaze?
            I think this is important as we are no longer looking for what ever the blaze refers to but now on a quest. Quickly is an action word, a word to do something and a word that say time is involved.
            So has the quest to find the chest actually cease?

            And if I’m reading the second part correct, are you saying there are maybe two clues for leaving the woods, after you found the chest?

          • seeker,
            By tells of a blaze i’m just talkng about stanza4. This partial sovle is timeline based and also takes the poem at a literal meaning. The round trip idea was just a way to keep the poem continuous aswell not doing the clues in order. If stanza6 is taking about the return trip then you would of already completed them once and now it must be done backwards to leave that area. And what i mean by 2 clues in the last stanza would be cold and wood. I abandon this idea when I believed the chest was not in a river or creek. Its mostly an attempt make effort worth the cold as the last clue, best not to force things. But maybe I still have a valid idea.

          • Count,

            I think I am following your logic here. It makes perfect sense. Whether it is right or wrong is a different story.

            I honestly don’t recall hearing/reading this idea previously.

            I like this thinking as it applies well to the linear line of approach.

            Scott W

          • if the poem does contain many layers then something of this nature may be one of them. I do have a long story of how I came to look at the poem this way and it has me with a question that I would love to hear and that would be how Forrest wanted the poem to read if he knew fot sure he was going to die ontop of the chest? My speculation is the last stanza may of been much different.

  24. Scott W
    Did you get my expanded views on stanza 1? If so did you respond? I may have missed it because the session closed and I couldn’t backtrack. If not I’ll post it again .
    As for stanza 5. In my theory, it’s the only stanza that wouldn’t have to be in the poem.

    • 1stbranch… I wouldn’t think there is any stanza that wouldn’t have to be…. just saying.

      Someone unfamiliar with your poem receives a message that says “meet me where warm waters halt, somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”. Would they be able to work out where to go? If they can’t, would they need the whole poem, another stanza, or just a line or word to help them on their way? ~Phil Bayman 
      There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f 

  25. Wanted To post For a While Typing Hunt And Peck , Spelling Bad. Seen a Lot of Crow Here.. Does The Finder Get Get Steak. OR Just The Gold.

    • Gary, the finder gets to enjoy the time in nature – no steak, no gold. Remember it is designed to get off the couch and get outside.

  26. Sometimes I go crazy trying to decipher what is what. Hopefully someone will find it soon so I can sleep better. RC

  27. Searchers:

    As I am strongly in the camp believing FF desired to keep it (the entire process) simple, but also believing that he is extremely clever in changing works, double meanings, a little truth but not all, etc.etc., did a little experiment. I ask a group of adults with some knowledge of the United States, a modified question. The objective was to see if just one word would or could make a difference in the meaning of the question. I ask them “meet me where warm waters FLOW”. The majority of the adults answered, Yellowstone Park. My point is that just the inclusion of one word can change the dynamics of the interpretation of the question or statement. I believe FF has purposely done this throughout the poem and is the reason why I stick to poem, as written, trying to understand his original intention. A map of course helps. Just in my humble opinion.
    Keep on searching!

    • BigSkip,

      Couple question; when you asked the question to others, did the have a knowledge of the poem in general or no knowledge of it at all?

      I do like the change of the word experiment as, halt does mean change in direction, but what would the out come have been if you change the word to stop in the same scenario as well?

      If you like double meanings and let me say I’m a multiple meanings guy myself, can’t we use both meanings?

      Ok I guess I had more than a couple question, change that to a few.

      • BigSkip, I am curious as to what answers the non majority of adults gave to your question?
        Seeker you scant ask so many questions in one post it sounds like you are talking in circles 🙂

        • If you change words is that not a cypher of some sort? Forest has said and we all know this “Don’t mess with my poem”. But then he has said, “Words have different meanings”. I seem to recall “straight forward” as well.

          I have to stay with “,All you need is TTOTC,google earth and a good map”. As well as some imagination as to what Forest see’s when he “Crafted the poem”.

          “HINT” of riches new and old. There is your hint folks.

  28. McLean,
    I should only comment on points that I question but I rarely hear of RICHES NEW and OLD. All of stanza 1 narrowed my search to 2 states.

  29. Seeker & Spallies:

    Thanks for the reply. As I am a strong believer in the simplicity of the Poem and that I believe FF wanted to keep it simple, but difficult, I believe much of the success of the Chase is in the words. I performed a simple experiment at my monthly breakfast gathering primarily of retired professional folks including men and women. I did not tell them I was treasure hunting nor did I identify the Chase, FF, the poem or anything else. I am sure that would have raised some eyebrows about old Skip. I just ask all to give me an answer to the question, “If I asked you to meet me where warm waters FLOW, where would that be”?. Most of the folks there have traveled and know the western United States. The majority of the folks responded “Yellowstone Park”. It’s not surprising because all of their lives they have heard of the natural elements there. A minority of persons gave answers such as Desert Hot Springs, Glenwood Springs, etc. etc. My point is that the replacement of one word can change the disposition or interpretation of the sentence, and possibly the clue. Did FF purposely interject “Halt” to throw us off and make the starting location more difficult to identify? So, I continue to explore the use of many of the words and mixed meanings in the Poem in hopes of unraveling the mystery. This of course is in my humble opinion.

    • Skip
      Have you ever thought of WWWH in reverse? Make sense? Could be exactly what Forest means in his tell the truth but not all the truth ways.

    • Hey Skip- did you know “halt” actually literally means “skip” and “pause” and “trip”. My favorite is “short stop” but I like baseball anyhow 🙂 really I just wanted to say skip three times in one post about halt. I’m out! Just IMO.

  30. I believe it’s time for Forrest to Spice things up. 🙂 how about Forrest Drawing a Map like a Pirate would. 🙂

      • Scott- in the west yellow stone news (you can go to website and search Forrest’s name) there’s three stories printed a few years before the book where they changed just a little. One is him and donnie in the on their adventure. He mentions the specific good map they used with maker and year as well. I’d just right it here but I dont have it with me.

      • A good map. Has it been discussed about other possible meanings for a good map? Here is one possibility (unless it is certain f clearly meant a geographic map.

        Dictionary.com Map – noun: (in hotels) a system of paying a single fixed rate that covers room, breakfast, and one other meal, usually dinner. Abbreviation MAP
        So wake up eat breakfast go get the chest come back for dinner. I should have said go look for the treasure imo. There are other definitions and uses of mapping but I’ll keep this brief.

  31. Scott
    Not a good answer 🙂 ha ha
    I can’t figure out the map in the back of book. Really I cant. 🙂

  32. This is the poem converted to ASCII code, anyone see valid lat-long here 🙂

    065 115 032 073 032 104 097 118 101 032 103 111 110 101 032 097 108 111 110 101 032 105 110 032 116 104 101 114 101 013 010 065 110 100 032 119 105 116 104 032 109 121 032 116 114 101 097 115 117 114 101 115 032 098 111 108 100 044 013 010 073 032 099 097 110 032 107 101 101 112 032 109 121 032 115 101 099 114 101 116 032 119 104 101 114 101 044 013 010 065 110 100 032 104 105 110 116 032 111 102 032 114 105 099 104 101 115 032 110 101 119 032 097 110 100 032 111 108 100 046 013 010 013 010 066 101 103 105 110 032 105 116 032 119 104 101 114 101 032 119 097 114 109 032 119 097 116 101 114 115 032 104 097 108 116 013 010 065 110 100 032 116 097 107 101 032 105 116 032 105 110 032 116 104 101 032 099 097 110 121 111 110 032 100 111 119 110 044 013 010 078 111 116 032 102 097 114 044 032 098 117 116 032 116 111 111 032 102 097 114 032 116 111 032 119 097 108 107 046 013 010 080 117 116 032 105 110 032 098 101 108 111 119 032 116 104 101 032 104 111 109 101 032 111 102 032 066 114 111 119 110 046 013 010 013 010 070 114 111 109 032 116 104 101 114 101 032 105 116 226 128 153 115 032 110 111 032 112 108 097 099 101 032 102 111 114 032 116 104 101 032 109 101 101 107 044 013 010 084 104 101 032 101 110 100 032 105 115 032 101 118 101 114 032 100 114 097 119 105 110 103 032 110 105 103 104 059 013 010 084 104 101 114 101 226 128 153 108 108 032 098 101 032 110 111 032 112 097 100 100 108 101 032 117 112 032 121 111 117 114 032 099 114 101 101 107 044 013 010 074 117 115 116 032 104 101 097 118 121 032 108 111 097 100 115 032 097 110 100 032 119 097 116 101 114 032 104 105 103 104 046 013 010 013 010 073 102 032 121 111 117 226 128 153 118 101 032 098 101 101 110 032 119 105 115 101 032 097 110 100 032 102 111 117 110 100 032 116 104 101 032 098 108 097 122 101 044 013 010 076 111 111 107 032 113 117 105 099 107 108 121 032 100 111 119 110 044 032 121 111 117 114 032 113 117 101 115 116 032 116 111 032 099 101 097 115 101 044 013 010 066 117 116 032 116 097 114 114 121 032 115 099 097 110 116 032 119 105 116 104 032 109 097 114 118 101 108 032 103 097 122 101 044 013 010 074 117 115 116 032 116 097 107 101 032 116 104 101 032 099 104 101 115 116 032 097 110 100 032 103 111 032 105 110 032 112 101 097 099 101 046 013 010 013 010 083 111 032 119 104 121 032 105 115 032 105 116 032 116 104 097 116 032 073 032 109 117 115 116 032 103 111 013 010 065 110 100 032 108 101 097 118 101 032 109 121 032 116 114 111 118 101 032 102 111 114 032 097 108 108 032 116 111 032 115 101 101 107 063 013 010 084 104 101 032 097 110 115 119 101 114 115 032 073 032 097 108 114 101 097 100 121 032 107 110 111 119 044 013 010 073 226 128 153 118 101 032 100 111 110 101 032 105 116 032 116 105 114 101 100 044 032 097 110 100 032 110 111 119 032 073 226 128 153 109 032 119 101 097 107 046 013 010 013 010 083 111 032 104 101 097 114 032 109 101 032 097 108 108 032 097 110 100 032 108 105 115 116 101 110 032 103 111 111 100 044 013 010 089 111 117 114 032 101 102 102 111 114 116 032 119 105 108 108 032 098 101 032 119 111 114 116 104 032 116 104 101 032 099 111 108 100 046 013 010 073 102 032 121 111 117 032 097 114 101 032 098 114 097 118 101 032 097 110 100 032 105 110 032 116 104 101 032 119 111 111 100 013 010 073 032 103 105 118 101 032 121 111 117 032 116 105 116 108 101 032 116 111 032 116 104 101 032 103 111 108 100 046

    • No valid coordinates if a code is needed… Is there a possibility for a set within the poem… could be. But is there other ways to see this without code breaking? Close Earth, you should try the Beasle papers.

      Which reminds me, I’ll be back!

      • Hi Seeker — short OT comment here. Unlike Fenn’s Treasure, the unsolved 2/3rds of the Beale Papers (or Ciphers) are a hoax, IMO and the opinions of many other expert cryptanalysts.

        • Zaphod,
          My take is it make for a good story. Too much questionable instances revolving around not only the story by why the need for other document for the other pages, and not truly a complete solve of the cipher first page.

          If we, just for fun, compare the chase to it. what we have is a single poem to understand.. to why two outsiders held the answers in the Beale”s solve. In the chase we have helpful information from the only person who knows, in the Beale papers we have second and third party information and really no direct link to the people involve, other than the story told by one outsider.

          This for me is why this hunt is so interesting. We still have the opportunity to hear from the source directly. Even though I don’t see additional “clues” that are need to directly solve the poem, I see the interaction of the Author helpful. Any part of something is better than nothing. Just like Scott stated about eliminating states, adding other information such as The Rocky Mountains, and so, are helpful, they add more question… yet usable informational question… such as, what do these remaining areas have in common? How do we connect so many wwwh, should that line be involving waters. Is knowing where to start the same as, begin it where?

          By all the discussion as of late and over the years, I personally come to a conclusion that the first two clue comments are important, yet no one knows what the truly mean. That is my opinion form collecting as much information from all of fenns comments overall. So that helped, imo. It didn’t give me answers, but is helping me by asking myself other questions and avenues to explore.

          • Hi Seeker — an even closer parallel can be made between the poem and the Kryptos sculpture since the artist (Jim Sanborn) is still alive, he occasionally releases clues, and those clues do not give away the solution but only serve to eliminate some possibilities. And like Fenn, Jim is the only one who knows the solution.

            It is not easy to design a puzzle that is just barely solvable. 99% of the time you end up with something that is either trivial or impossible. In Fenn’s case, better for him to initially err on the side of impossible, and then if necessary “tickle the dragon’s tail” by releasing a few hints that just barely tip the scales toward solvability.

          • I tend to agree with you zaphod. This is Forrest’s first attempt at setting a puzzle and I think the clues in the poem are so general and vague that it is near impossible to solve and perhaps that is why he has released so many after-the-fact hints through interviews, Today Show segments, scrapbooks etc. I’m not aware of any other puzzle setter that has communicated with his searchers in that manner as much as Forrest has, if they communicate with them at all! I hope Forrest’s puzzle is solved in my lifetime and I hope the successful person will reveal their solve as I’m really curious to see how far off I was. 🙂

          • CJ,

            I don’t know about vague, but lean more towards general.

            What if [ big if ] Fenn already gave us the first clue or at least part of the first clue…
            Maybe the first two clues need to be known to understand how to read or see the poem, still places, but in general.

            Need to nail down the first clue, ignore, the first clue, preoccupied by other clues,
            no one has considered one important possibility… and other comments.

            Could the RM’s be the first or at least very important to understanding the significance of first two clues. Most think all the clues are place of travel or needed to be at. Could this thought process be too exact? Maybe a more general understanding IS needed.
            We have been told our tools for this challenge are the poem, the book, maps, and a Comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.

            Was fenn’s original intent of “mountains north of SF” from the intro of the poem, one of the hints needed for the readers to figure out? The Place he has gone alone in so many times. How could that possibly help? Maybe a general point of view may just be what is needed.

          • Seeker, here I always thought we had to be precise, or at least follow the clues precisely. 🙂 Actually, it seems to me that most of my solve can be followed precisely and has not changed much from the very beginning. No so-called “clue” that Forrest has given on the Today show or elsewhere has helped me or bee useful. Pretty much every interview, scrapbook, vignette etc that Forrest has given has only reinforced something in my solve – to me he has given out many hints. Goofy will be rolling his eyes at me for that statement I’m sure. 🙂 Vague was probably not the best choice of words as to how I see the clues. The poem seems to fit almost any area if you stretch your interpretations of the individual clues as some seem to have done. Other solves people have posted sound very logical to me and you almost wonder why the treasure was not there. So many different interpretations for so many of the words and lines in the poem that it seems this search will never end – unless I can figure out those last clues! 🙂

    • Close Earth –

      All the beginning numbers are a 1 or 0 – Why is that?

      Perhaps you could do it line by line – to see the down numbers change?

  33. Complete letter count for the poem:

    A 49 B 11 C 12 D 28 E 82 F 12 G 11 H 31 I 36 J 2 K 11 L 27 M 11 N 41 O 50 P 6 Q 2 R 36 S 24 T 53 U 17 V 10 W 23 X 0 Y 15 Z 2

  34. Amy:

    BigSkip here;

    Do I assume you are referring to the fuzzy map on p.133 of TTOTC?
    Thanks.

  35. Please would you guys help me on something? I have 2 different printings of TTOTC 4th, and 5th (it
    Says on title page) 4th is tan cloth and 13digit ISBN ends in 85. 5th is chocolate brown and 13digit ISBN ends in 78. (First 11 the same)

    Any way a few of you would be so kind and sharing as to post your printing edition, ISBN, and cover color? I’d like to collect the various printings but am curious as to whether they’re all different or there just happened to be a cover color and ISBN change in mine two printing runs?

    C’mon now….please be nice….and comment with what yours are? Pretty please!

      • Loco….that number is too far to walks first printing….are you saying it’s also TTOTC or did you just mix them up?

        • LOL!! Yeah Jamie, what can I say, I’m loco!! It was 1:30am and I picked up wrong book.

          Third, Tan, 85

          (don’t tell seeker I screwed up. OK? 🙂 )

          • Ya kidding… I already cut and paste it, enlarged to poster size, print in color and framed it. lol

    • I have the 5th printing and the isbn ends 7-8. The cover appears to be chocolate brown, but I am color deficient. The 5 printings should be all the same from the initial type set. Any changes would require notice of a new edition. All indications are that more copies were printed, but no changes made.

      • Windy- forrest himself (I’m 99% sure) has even written in scrapbooks that early additions had his phone number and people would call his house. Also in later editions his email is @gmail vs. @earthlink. In my own two I can find minor differences in pictures and have 2 completely different cover colors. Light tan and dark chocolate. So
        There definitely are differences, he’s the publisher though so I imagine he can do what he wants. My curiosity is no that these are clues but mere intrigue and wanting to be able to specify when ordering one online since they are all listed as ‘first edition’ but are not ‘first printing.

        Spallies- I got it over a year ago. My number is the same on that one. Just wondered if it changed on ALL or cover color only changed once and so did number.

        If loco is saying he has first and that is dark chocolate then there must be several changes since other early ones are tan like the 4s

    • Jamie, interesting question.

      My third printing cloth cover is a tan, brown color.

      The 13 digit ISBN ends with 8-5.

      All you need to do is ask, Jamie. 😉

      • So we have
        First/chocolate/92
        Third AND fourth/tan 85
        Fifth/78
        And now listed on Collected Works and all over online is 80?(no clue on color)

        What’s up with the numbers going up and down? Odd fox shenanigans I say….

          • Yes, any omissions or additions would warrant a new ISBN. When additional books are needed for supply/demand, each batch will have a new ISBN also.
            Am I missing somethimg? Does this pertain to the 9 clues and if so,
            Jamie, which of the 9 clues do YOU think it points to?
            ( WARNING: Goofy loves his ‘nuke’ button! May I suggest…Odd and Ends so no one becomes radioactive?!) 😉
            ¥Peace ¥

        • Second printing, chocolate, 8-5, Got it in late 2011, has earthlink email but no phone number.

        • Jamie –

          So there was a color change on the cover of TTOTC from tan to brown – then back to tan? Interesting – I did not know that – good sleuthing.

          I thought that it had to be a 15% change to warrant a new ISBN number – perhaps a cover change in color is enough to do that? Does anyone here know?

          Now I’m wondering what else is different …..

          • There is what I found on a cover color change ……….

            “US practice is if the book is just out or the idea is to give a marketing boost to the product, then no, a new ISBN should not be assigned. However, if the change in cover substantially changes the product (ie., would lead to customer complaints), then a new ISBN should be used”

    • Hi jamie j. I have two, however, I’ll be on the road til later this evening for work. I’ll check as soon as I can and let you know.
      🙂

    • Jamie,
      Happy to help. I will add to your question, one of mine.
      My book arrived with the dustcover jacket folded and not on the book. Did others receive theirs like this?
      ISBN 978-0-9670917-8-5 (Has f email address in it)
      3rd printing
      Chocolate brown cover
      Now I’ve shown you mine will you show me yours?

  36. Seeker
    Scott W
    Dal
    All Searchers:

    Being new to the search, I was interested in knowing what the history is regarding the fuzzy map on p.133 of TTOTC. Same item as referenced in my reply to Amy.
    She needs help too. Anything of interest?
    Thanks

    • Maybe a reference about finding some glasses or an i exam? That frogs nicely in focus, though. And his head left a nice indentation on the front of the chests lockingechanism too….glad he’s out of the lock and on the map at least. And least something’s moving along. I’ll share more if anyone shares anything with me on the post above regarding different printings. Lol.

    • BigSkip,
      F said not to disregard anything. The map is an old one. I thought it was very interesting to put an old NM map in TOTC, THEN later change statement from”mountains” to “ROCKY Mountains”.
      F put the 4 state map in TFTW, which also came LATER.
      Is this a clue that the original search would have taken place in NM, then enlarged when it went crazy the second year?
      Was F afraid it would be found too soon, so extended the chase to include ALL of the mts?
      I know F MEANT the RMTs, but why the year+ to make that correction! When he makes a mistake verbally, he corrects it very quickly, EXCEPT in this situation!
      IMO, the NM map is a BIG tell.
      As far as “And hint of something new and old”, well…pictures are worth a thousand words!
      IMO, I think it ties in with the poem and the 9 clues!
      Some will argue that his YS pics are in there too, why not YS? My opinionated rebuttal would be…”This is a MAP WITH GOLD ON IT INDICATING A TREASURE HUNT, those others are to illustrate his story!”
      ¥Peace ¥

      • Donna-
        There really is no mystery around why he added “Rocky” to his original statement about the treasure being in the mountains north of Santa Fe.

        In the very beginning of this blog there was a great deal of discussion about what comprised “the mountains north of Santa Fe.”…as you can well imagine the debate was endless..

        There were folks who believed it could be in the Appalachians, others felt it was in the Cascades, some the Brooks Range and a few who even argued for mountain ranges in Europe.

        Most felt that those ideas were unlikely, even preposterous but then, as now, folks would argue anything and everything that wasn’t specifically eliminated was on the table. AND when combined with Forrest’s outlandish definition of “north” those mountain ranges fell into the “preposterous but possible” file and made the chase even more intimidating than it is today.

        Remember that Forrest defined north as anything between 271 degrees and 89 degrees…This revelation came about around the first discussion of Bandelier National Monument as a potential place to hide the chest. Many felt that Bandelier had to be ruled out because it was east of Santa Fe, not north. I was one of those arguers:
        http://dalneitzel.com/2013/03/17/bandelier-national-monument-not/

        Forrest then gave us his liberal definition of “north” as a “northerly direction” and all of a sudden we had Bandelier and other areas thrown into the mix. Bandelier was further solidified as a likely location when the TFTW map was published and Forrest made his famous “Forth” statement:
        http://dalneitzel.com/2014/06/25/scrapbook-seventy-eight/

        Many people who have used a compass all their life feel this is a strange definition of north coming from an ex-pilot. But it’s Forrest’s game and so it’s Forrest’s rules. When you take that definition of north and lay it on a world map practically the entire globe north of about 36 degrees latitude is treasure chest territory. It made a lot of people feel the game was hopeless.

        So, I assume, one day Forrest, seeing that there was no immediate threat to his chest if he narrowed it down somewhat, eliminated 99% of the globe’s surface as a likely resting place by adding the adjective “Rocky” to mountains.

        Die-hards persisted though, and for awhile there was the argument floating around that by “rocky” he could have been describing any mountain range…they are all made of rock… That argument finally fell apart when he produced the map in TFTW.

        The sequence of events are somewhat jumbled in my explanation above…but I hope you can see my intent…at one point the potential location of the chest was an immense and impractical area when left without further guides. Forrest probably did not expect people to broaden out the search area so far…but they did. He needed to squeeze the likely search area back into a reasonable geographic area somehow and by adding “Rocky” as an adjective he did exactly that and probably merely re-defined the area he actually had in mind anyway.

      • Donna-
        Regarding NM vs the other three states…
        In 2010 there were two printed news stories..one in the New Mexican and the other in a smaller paper I cannot recall the name of..also from NM. Both these stories appeared very, very shortly after Forrest announced the chase. They both stated that Forrest said the chest was hidden “in New Mexico, in the mountains north of Santa Fe”. That was when Forrest began saying, “I never said it was in New Mexico.” None-the-less. Both stories quoted him as saying this and both were published at about the same time.
        At the time I was pursuing a theory something like yours that suggested Forrest originally intended the chase to be for New Mexican folks. He didn’t think it would go international..So in the beginning he was saying that it was hidden in New Mexico..
        But when the chase proved to be an international story he broadened out the search area.
        I contacted the reporters of each story. I asked them if they were certain that Forrest said “New Mexico”.
        They both got back to me. One said “thats what it says in my notes”. The other said, “I always felt it was in New Mexico so that’s what I wrote”.
        You will note that neither claimed without a doubt that Forrest actually said “New Mexico” and the second response was ridiculous.
        At any rate, I could find no concrete evidence that Forrest ever actually said “New Mexico”. Believe me..I tried for a year to find someone who would claim that Forrest actually said the chest was hidden in NM. I couldn’t.

        • After watching numerous interviews with f, I could sure see where f could have lead those reporters in that direction without having actually said it.

  37. Inthechaseto said:
    In my very humble opinion – everyone will be shocked at how many blazes are in the chase – I was. I know it says “blaze” singular – but that’s just not the way my solve turned out.

    Hi into

    You are a very bright person, I have not heard others say this. Most believe in a singular blaze. In my solve there are layers…blaze simply means to show one the way.

    • I think the blazes are indeed very real objects……… and I’ve never really counted them – maybe I’ll go back and do that now………. I think if your a number counter in the chase – it’s a deterrent.

    • Actually it has been talk about. Not to a large extent as WWWH or hoB. The Q&A’s on MW’s was the kick off… Is the Blaze a single object … and another…is the blaze in the poem or only in the field.

      This debate about the possibility of more than one object to create a single object has thrown some interesting idea out. My thought is, there may be a correlation of the entire poem to the Blaze… all point/ place/ clues reference could make a design or shape to show the location , there was the idea of a triangulation involved, another is 9 blazes or markers at each point of the journey that needs BOTG to find. One was the blaze is the starting point to a maze of other blaze marks.

      But yes a many object can create a single object … in a word, the blaze. the other thing talk about is what is an object when we consider the poem.

  38. I posted these on another page, but wanted to put them here. In 2008 Forrest wrote these stories to the Yellowstone New paper up in Montana. It could be a clue that something in them are important. I saw another story where he spoke about writing a letter to the editor.

    http://www.westyellowstonenews.com/community_notes/article_b826c621-c324-54e1-8844-3bd8207ad8cf.html

    http://www.westyellowstonenews.com/community_notes/article_e363fae5-731e-5c3f-9d3d-feb1827cf602.html

    http://www.westyellowstonenews.com/opinion/letters_to_editor/article_55c08438-3548-5fe2-a746-29c68935cc40.html

    http://www.westyellowstonenews.com/community_notes/article_0395f55d-1a78-5112-a9cc-1030c5a840a4.html

    http://www.westyellowstonenews.com/opinion/columnists/article_f3536df1-d70e-548c-842d-6e2f499814b1.html

    He would have known these stories would be able to be pulled up for many years in the archives. So is there something in them of importance?

    • I was recently thinking about those predating the book as well. Unfortunately if we consider that they have clues because they came early, we have to consider the opposite as well, that they were considered “safe” for release and have no significant clues.

      • I don’t think the differences themselves are clues. I think that they are ‘hints’ not in their specifics but just their existence as a whole…the mere fact that “things change”, to me, is a big part of it- in this case the changes themselves are insignificant and a book wouldn’t favor one reader over another just random afterthoughts sprinkled as hints to ‘change’. “Hints” because they don’t help you locate…but DO help you to see “change”…which I personally believe is a ‘clue’ to where to find the things that do.

        • Jeremy, Jamie

          As much as I find this conversation interesting, as far as the book giving helpful information. I personally don’t lean in the direction of needed, but that is just my perspective. Jeremy said;
          “Unfortunately if we consider that they have clues because they came early, we have to consider the opposite as well, that they were considered “safe” for release and have no significant clues.”
          and
          “I forgot to add, for what it’s worth: A potentially interesting change for those who’ve been hunting water falls is that early versions of “My War For Me” set the height of the waterfall at 200 feet. The version that made it into the book has it as 100 feet. At some point he decided to make that change.”

          To use the book[s] one would need to keep in mind some simple rules of common sense. The example of 200′ to 100′ may just be a typo, not unlike the “answers vs answer” You have to ask yourself.. how many people would go and buy each reprint of the same book, and if these changes were actual hints or clues from the first print, does this not make the original printing obsolete? even wrong or intentionally misleading. I have a hard time with using different printings of a book as actual information that should be used.

          I have heard some say that FF couldn’t know who difficult the poem turned out to be and now is supplying new hints / clue to help because of this thought. I personally think just the opposite IMO. He spent a very long time on planing all this, the effort to placed to challenge our minds to discover the clues, and then turn around just to to reprint other books to draw attention to a hint or clue, for me, doesn’t make sense.

          Just my perspective.

          • Sorry, I don’t mean the height of the water fall changed between book versions. I don’t know what they had in them (mine is 4th printing).

            I mean the “My War For Me” story predates the book, as early as 2004, and the pre-book version had 200 ft. in it. It was changed to 100 ft at some point. I don’t know why and I’m not even going to try and guess.

            Sorry I wasn’t clear — I didn’t intend my comment as related to the other conversation about changes between book prints, Moon asked about early versions of stories from the book. That’s the only change I saw that might interest some people.

          • I misunderstood then on who or what your comment was to or about… no worries.
            My only point is when we read one book to the other, I can’t believe that there would be anything deliberately change to assist in the chase… I just lean towards errors of some kind.

            Even the dust cover has been talk about holding clues… Do they? I don’t know… But what makes more sense is why would they? They are not permanently attach, easily misplace or destroyed etc. If something in print was a needed piece to solve the poem, this would be a ridiculous place to put needed clues / hints. And as some have pointed out… their copies never came with a dusk jacket.

            I didn’t mean anything about your comment Jeremy, I just used it as an example to my point as, the possibility of typo. nothing else was intended.

          • Yeah, I lean that way as well. There’s a start to the chase, all information needed to find it is available at that point, and anything that comes after is just noise. Finding signals in the noise is tough enough without adding more noise.

            Disclaimer: I haven’t found a single signal I’m 100% confident about 🙂

          • When a book goes into reprint I always assumed that it’s all preprogrammed? So if doesn’t have to rewrite the book everytime does that mean he is adjusting hints in the book on every reprint?

          • Will I can think of a lot of books that have gone into rewrite, and by different publishing co. and have slightly different wordings and or errors… one, of the top of my head, for example is very easy to check out, the Bible.

            I don’t, I repeat do not, know the process of publishing a book, although I have found out they want an arm and a leg to publish one. So I ask, why would FF deliberately change anything from the original book? The next thing we will hear on the blogs is, all the wacky claim fenn is deliberately misleading us by changing the clues in the book… Naaa that wouldn’t happen, right?!

          • Seeker- the first two runs were printed before EITHER were released. They are different and BOTH created beforehand. Following editions are reprints of one or the other (exception of dust jacket). As far as colors? I just think forrest likes to play with fire and make it look not important. Both ways it’s brown. No matter which copy. It still is brown. That’s what matters . I’m not forcing anyone to believe me of consider any of it as a hint to “READ THE BOOK” just offering it up that I personally think it’s one of the beginning clues. All dust jackets say “the clues are scattered in these PAGES” EXACTLY where the warm printing waters halt. I can totally see why it might not look appealing to some, just offering it out there as one case of a clue leading to a direct path to a clear concise statement. In this case confirming the first “clue” to be to read the first words in the dust jacket. Just a different way of following instructions to try, that’s all. I’ll avoid even bringing up the next 3 as I don’t want to start a riot but thanks for listening and an honest critique as always. Much appreciated.

          • Jamie,
            I would like to hear more from you. Perhaps we should have another thread “More Than Nine Clues” I haven’t spent much time in the book since I first read it but would like to look at it more closely. Especially around the edges ;^)

          • “All that will be needed are the clues, some resolve,…”
            Mindy would like this definition:

            Resolve:
            11.
            Optics. to separate and make visible the individual parts of (an image); distinguish between. Dictionary.com

          • Hey Jamie,

            Trust me when I say I know what your talking about… and like I said before in my very first post on this subject, maybe you’ll find something.

            This is not the first discussion on the brown color book, the numbers, even more the tread used to bind the books and glue used in parts of that binding. the connection to in the wood to the book, the title in gold print, hear me all and listen to the stories he tells, and even look quickly down to find the next step in the book to take after finding the blaze in the field.

            I have to grin on some of the conversation Chris Y, Jason [ two clever guys and researchers ] and many others had years ago on just the same thing your looking into… You are using your head and that’s good, you are looking into connections and that great, searching for possibilities, I have no problems and think it still an avenue to look into. What I can’t see is any deliberate changes by the Author from one book to another… That imo would be not only completely wrong, but truly misleading. I just can see that happening.

            There was some good ideas to this subject, unfortunately it would take a year to sort through all the mess just to find it and another year to sort through the weeks of conversations of posters see if there was anything useful for you to consider.

            I’m not knocking your approach, but I may question your results… that is why we comment here… to bounce of ideas and get feed back. Well in theory anyways.

    • I forgot to add, for what it’s worth: A potentially interesting change for those who’ve been hunting water falls is that early versions of “My War For Me” set the height of the waterfall at 200 feet. The version that made it into the book has it as 100 feet. At some point he decided to make that change.

      Enjoy 😉

    • I think that any changes from prior articles and editions should be looked at and thoroughly considered. But it’s probably a waste of time to over analyze

      I will say on the 4th article listed above, the name changes from the article to the names in the book, are hints to a certain state. Not necessarily by looking at the names alone but by analyzing some ot the other info within that chapter along with the names.

      • Oops! Forgot to say IMO again. I had already found that chapter to lead to a certain state over a year ago, before I read the article, just in case you are wondering.

  39. Hello Donna:
    Thanks for the reply. Your observations about the “fuzzy” map are interesting. I, of course, am still trying to confirm that the map is in fact old NM. Has there been previous discussions about this map that absolutely tie it to NM? Some of the senior searchers might recall a discussion or the specifics on how it was identified. And you are correct, a picture is worth a thousand words. Too bad a treasure map isn’t out there, or maybe it is?
    Thanks

    • BigSkip –

      You know about the benchmark treasure map right ?

      The “fuzzy” map is of both NM and CO. A lot more there than meets the eye…………lol.

    • Big-
      Early on there were several discussions about the map in the book and it was identified. A copy of the map that it is a part of was said to be found on the web somewhere. It was indeed claimed to be from an older map of NM. But where that discussion is at and where the link to the copy on the web is at..I cannot tell you…but looking at old posts will undoubtedly turn it up if you feel it is worth the effort.

  40. inthechaseto:

    I have no knowledge of the “benchmark treasure map”. Is that the four state map included in the second book?
    Thanks

  41. @donna re: your statements to me regarding my question about books implying that it has nothing to
    Do with the nine clues, I should be nuked, and asking “am I missing something?”

    Yes Donna. In my opinion you are missing something…the way I see it after reading that…you are apparently missing everything.

    -a strong case could be made for the entire first stanza to be referring to his memories/memoir where all four lines would relate exactly.

    -if you begin at the beginning- the very FIRST “PASSAGE” is inside of the dust jacket. In it you will find the statement “unlock the CLUES scattered among these PAGES and (find the gold etc- I forget exact wording)

    PAGES. Not “page” not “poem” not “on the map”
    Scattered within these PAGES.

    Personally I think that probably means in the book. Yes, ALL YOU NEED IS THE POEM-
    The poem is in the book.
    The first clue in the poem says read the book. IMO the first two
    Clues in the poem at least lead to the book and specific places within it.

    “Follow the clues precisely”
    Follow them from the poem to the book. “Precisely” pre=before cision=cut

    This would me to to think maybe the contents of the books matter especially when I have different things in my books. So
    I asked an intelligent question that may intrigue others as well.

    After reading the book, you may also want to consider reading the Nuke Manual. I doubt I should or would be nuked for bringing something sound and valid to the table. I think Goofy knows if I bother saying something it probably has nuts….maybe not the right nuts…but it has nuts. I have nuts Donna, that’s why I’m not still asking about brown trout and saying things I really think that matter.

    Maybe I am being too bold by assuming you had access to the same book. Maybe your copy doesn’t say CLUES ARE SCATTERED IN THE PAGES. <••• note the "plural" as in more than one. If your copy DOES NOT say that please forgive me, but again it would make my question valid about different editions.

    There are many reasons I asked what I did about the nine clues and this just barely scratches the surface of the first clues and people understanding them and then "skipping" (<••• note this is a definition of 'halt' ) passed the rest.

    I was hoping to maybe discuss 4 additional 'clues' I see and maybe others would like to share thoughts on as well on that line of thought but apparently I should be nuked for my silly irrelevant thoughts and go back to my other solid lead on if the home of brown might be brown trout and looking at my crystal ball while ignoring trying to just follow the instructions specifically as words are defined and stated. Thank you so much for my reality check….I'll try to be more wise in the future so I don't get thrown out for expressing my useless knowledge. Lol.

    P.S. You can pick your friends. You can pick your nose. But don't pick your friends nose….

    ..:.And try to leave picking at their nuts alone too…..you never know when there might be a little gold in there if your not too scared to be gentle. I like to think of myself and several others on here as Squirrels so I'm not afraid to share my breakfast with them and that's the sort of logic I chew on. That's all.

    IMO. IMO. IMO.

    **except for there really being a species of trout that's "Brown"….that of course is FACT.

    Thanks again, and
    🙂 🙂 peace 🙂 🙂
    To you as well

      • The nine clues cover a lot of ground; this book discussion is out on the edges of the nine clues which is why I haven’t said anything.

        I do find it interesting even though I have doubts whether it makes any difference toward finding the chest. But who knows.

        Like I said Jamie, I do think this is interesting and find it a shame for it to be buried in the nine clues archive. We have a topic just for the book; it would be great for this to be over there. I don’t know if you would want to repost it over there and have everyone reply/re-reply to it there. With a topic devoted just to the book there’s no telling what your sleuthing will turn up when folks start replying……

        Maybe I’m nuts but I think this is a great discussion to have over in the book section.

        http://dalneitzel.com/2013/03/23/the-book/

        • Well, I have nuts too, and I think the color of both the outer cover and direct cloth cover has a lot to do with the nine clues and so do the ISBN numbers….. So now you have my two cents………. I say leave it here……no big deal.

          • Moon –

            ISBN numbers can either be purchased separately or in blocks of ten. Either way – you do not select the numbers – they are assigned to you. I don’t know which he did – I suppose I could figure that out if I wanted to….but I don’t want to.

            Yes, I know a ISBN is the undiscovered clue he talks about – but at this point in time – you’d have to dig deep to find it.

            IMO

        • Yeah goof- I totally see the “on the edges” of the topic part. I just think the nine clues themselves are “on the edges” so the first clue…being the edge of the dust jacket saying the clues are in the pages, and the paragraph in front of the poem saying to “follow with precision” I.e. Literally “Follow before the cut” So in my mind the ‘nine clues’ begin right there and involve various cuts and edges. I avoided the “book” heading as I wasn’t trying to start a discussion about every anomalie under the sun in page form, print etc… But instead intruduce the possibility of these ‘breaks and edges’ as the foundation OF the nine clues. Like the “clearly focused” knowledgable frog on the blurry map. The book thread seems like more of an open clue free discussion of the blurry maps blurry vagueness. Maybe I could write up my own “Jamie’s vast quantities of Endless Knowledge Precisely Pairing Poem with Text in search of Nine Clear Clues (and brown trout!) thread? We could call it “pick my nose” or “dinner for schmucks” and anyone else with a partial lobotomy such as myself could explore such lunacy under the pretense it might really be the link/path of all nine clues and what they are? I could even include stuff like pictures and more quotes just to add to my fictitious delusions that they may be clues?
          Whad’ya say boss?

          Give a nutty squirrel a shot?

          ….Breakfast is on me…

          U know u wanna…

    • ” I have nuts Donna, that’s why I’m not still asking about brown trout and saying things I really think that matter. ”

      LOL!! I see why Min-Min and you clicked, little sister. You bad, girl!!
      And although he has to be more reserved due to his position, I bet Goofy thinks so too! 🙂

      Thanks, I’ve been contemplating something along those lines myself. Although not totally restricting it to TTOTC exclusively.

      And, on your “halt”, if you open an umbrella above your head, in the rain, do you not essentially “halt” the warm waters?? 🙂
      (seems there was a story in TTOTC about that?….hmmm)

      Keep on keepin’ on, JJ…….loco

      • ^ I like this umbrella business 🙂

        I’ve seen pictures of red rain with frogs…and heard legends of cats and dogs…but it appears to be showering nuts in here now too. 🙂

        Make it rain loco you crazy lobo…
        Make. It. Rain.

        Disclaimer:
        ***i believe this relates to the nine clues in regards partially to ‘heavy loads and water high’ and “The cold” and Winnie the Pooh alone holding his umbrella for piglet. Where one clue may specifically be solved with a ‘weather’ theme.

        …I do seem to remember that sun going behind a cloud a few times though…no forward facing shadows there I bet.

    • WAIT… WHaaaT! there’s a nuke manual?

      This is what I call dissecting all the “original information” that was available at the start of all this… To a next level. And at this point and time maybe a much needed step, as a lot of searcher have been crabbing at anything and everything. Others Authors books, codes ciphers, floating hat SB challenges, measuring the family pet pics, mythology, Wizard of Oz, The world wide web theory… even an alien egg theory…

      “The person that finds it,” Fenn said, “is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.” 

      Maybe the next level if thinking is how we all should be examining our own solves… because no one truly has a clue. Not even the first two. Jamie, I don’t think there is major ground breaking clues here, YET maybe something will be uncovered by doing so… you’re a smart one who does have an analytical mind.

      No opinion here, just the facts ma’am, just the facts.

      Now Goofy, about this Nuke Manual….

      • Seeker-
        “The second rule of the golden eternity is that there never was a first rule of the golden eternity. So be sure”
        -Jack Karauc

        Now about that first rule….or was it the second. Just where is the end? I mean the edge…

        I don’t relate to the Oz theories either…but I can find 3 different signed original copies with hand painted end papers or the original Wizard maybe insanely expensive…but I can find them. First edition ttotc? Never seen one. And with all us greedy broke hunters? You’d think at lead somebody would have had one on even eBay at some point for a disgustingly large amount of cash. The first also came out on oct 25 and the second not even 3 month later…it’s changes would already have been in the press before first was even released. I think it’s NUTS to discount that as insignificant- and says a ton as to the exact level of architecture and foreshadowing involved. Yes. “For-shadowing”

        Lol. Sorry, I couldn’t resist. Just some fat to chew around on. Not groundbreaking. Just chewable.

    • Thanks Jamie for your comments…out of the box and imaginative….I loved it. Donna one can argue that any/all of the hints contained in the books are relevant to solving the 9 clues….How about appreciating a new way of looking at things….especially since the old ways haven’t worked,
      imo….Cheers

      • Dang! You guys can take a simple question “what does it have to do with the nine clues”, some one asking for claification not disrespecting or calling anyone names, to a total bash fest. I WAS lost and asking for help with Jaime’s idea, period!!!
        I was taught, if you can’t say something nice, keep your mouth shut!
        Making insinuations about my intelligence, skills, understanding, encouraging someone’s tongue lashing when they wanted clarification…is just bullying!
        THAT’S MY OPINION!!!
        Fenn said what right has someone to tell me my idea of a flower is a weed!
        I don’t need your type of hateful plover to do my research.
        Adios

    • Jaime, thanks for your feed back!
      My question was what does the ISBN have to do in relation to the 9 clues. I never questioned your intelligence nor your thought process, just curios about your find.
      As far as Goofy, well, he has warned before about keeping on topic with the 9 clues, I was trying to be friendly! I see you feel sure you won’t get nuked, so roll on!
      And, I NEVER implied Brown was brown Trout, have read BOTH books at least 50 times, memorized the poem and have completed 78 searches to this date. Please don’t insult my intelligence.
      If you put an anomaly out there for attention, expect feedback! I asked what clue did it have to do with 9 clues, a VALID question.
      Why be so defensive?
      I’ll just ‘lurk’, not comment anymore, you guys are getting pretty fenatical, not fun!
      And Dal, thanks for YOUR view on the NM debate!
      Better get your waders ready, people, next season, I’m going full blast!

      • Um…I don’t know how many smaller words or ways to explain it. What do different editions have to do with it? Why do variables change but stay the same? Like different cover colors but always brown? Personally I think the first clue is to read the book. I think consistent yet variable changes could add to that logic. Following it down a path I asked for feedback as I wasn’t sure if they all were brown etc. It was a question I was asking for help with myself. It involves the nine clues being that that would be where they are located and an attempt to actually find them. Just a way of looking at things, locating a clue then looking around to see more. Those were things I saw nearby and figured maybe others could add or help figure stuff out. There is nothing for me to be wrong about….I simply asked a question about a clue. I don’t understand the necessity to “challenge” everything. I’m not Dals friend Stewart that jumps from bushes and steals balls. I’m on the other side randomly jumping up and trying to throw some back. That’s what I think “you are missing” I’ve now explained it five times. My thumbs hurt. I’m out of additional words to come up with or angles to explain. It’s a beaten dead dog. Bleeding all over a bridge. Even I don’t want to hear about it anymore. It’s all good. Lol

  42. AMEN, Brothers and Sisters !! After all of the anxious searches, endless comments, opinions hashed and rehashed, it seems that one thing is certain. Forrest has certainly stumped a well rounded and diverse group of folks. Many have withered away and disappeared. I notice that there are a few very dedicated folks w/ above average smarts still avidly giving this Chase all they can. Until the Chest is found, I cannot believe that anything relevant to Forrest, the poem, the TTOTC etc. can be discounted entirely. Almost anything in the TTOTC could wind up being the key to success. I know a little about nuclear buttons, but never really wanted to know why anyone would want to be the one to push them. For clarification, I do see the need for moderation here on Dal’s site. It has been all too clear when individuals have crossed the line. I do miss the frequent stories from Forrest and his interaction. That’s why I come here…
    Stay safe and happy all you dedicated searchers. And good luck ! Oh yeah, I believe that the first stanza is a clue that gives the location of where to start.

  43. Yeah, Jaime, I got it after your first explaination. IMO, it’s such a left hand observation, don’t see how f controlling ISBN and color of covers has any relevance. It’s just another “out there” observation. And THAT’S my opinion. No need to rebuttal or get nasty because I disagree.
    Moving on…

    • Cool beans. I’m not sure that knowing “warm waters” is part of the printing process to adhere to the cover… which is ‘brown’ and trying to verify that it remains ‘brown’ even when the ISBN changes is so “out there”. And the only way to find out without owning all the copies myself would be to ask ppl what ISBN and color to verify they are all indeed brown. If that is “to complex” and “out there” for you then it’s fine with me. I never asked for your opinion, only asked if some people who were willing to “share” and “contribute” would mind commenting on printing edition/color. Never did I say “hey Donna please critique my question and give me your opinion on the merits of it’s worth because I value it” no. I said “hey, could anyone mind helping me with colors” so I’m sure you can see how your massive misinterpretation of “colors” to mean “your fledgling snarky opinion” was a bit to “out there” for me to grasp as well. My apologies.

      • Before this takes a bad turn I would point out that all books matter ,regardless of color of jacket…Mine is tan, fourth printing, 8-5..The cover on mine is starting to look a little mucked up with dirt and stuff.

      • Jamie-
        Mine is the special edition, white cover with extra clues…
        When I read it backwards I get a special message from Karlheinz Stockhausen..
        No..Wait!!
        Sorry…That’s my White Album by the Beatles…my mistake 🙂

        • I LOVE that edition. It’s my favorite after Paul Mccartneys Hot Hitz and Kold Kutz with the secret message at the end. 🙂 if collected works sold them I would by them all!!
          I wonder if Paul McCartney also went to Starline for the only heat set printer in all of New Mexico for his album insert and stuff too…and then across to Arizona for specific binding? You think it’s possible that Paul copied Forrest in a time warp? Like I was worried about binding and really it’s about tones and the Beatles??!!? Are you saying the yellow submarine actually is NOT a clue? It’s just so hard to wrap my head around this new intel all at once…. 😉

          • It’s kind of neat that some dust jacket acknowledge it as his eighth book and some as his ninth as well. If you guys don’t want to hear about the rest that’s fine with me…I shall bring it up no more. Back to brown trout!!

          • Jamie –

            What? Now the dust jackets are different? Geeez Pls continue on……..

            So I take it what we know for sure is the 3rd edition was chocolate brown?

          • Inthechase,
            I may have confused the 3rd printing colors. Chocolate jacket tan book. And mine came with jacket off? Anybody else receive theirs with the cover off? I think one other person said theirs came that way.

          • Jamie,
            I have two TTOTC, both fourth print, tan cover end 8-5, dust cover on, and one was shrink wrapped. (Separate shippings?)

            I have three TFTW. Two are first print, 3000 copies, though one is chocolate and one is white, one shrink wrapped the other not. Both have Earthlink email.
            Third copy is Second printing, 1500 copies, chocolate, dust cover on, Gmail address, and all three have same isbn.

            all but one are signed.

            🙂

  44. Maybe this is a good place to say this: Pondering stanza 1, Clue 1:
    As I have gone alone in there… [into my memory… no one else can go in there]
    And with my treasures bold … [ my experiences, attributes, achievements, acquired knowledge, etc. ]
    I can keep my secret where… [ in a memoir book! ]
    And hint of riches new [what I’ve learned] and old [the memories].

    Stanza 1 = Clue 1 = THE BOOK. It wrote itself. IMO, the poem and the book are inseparable.
    “All you need is the poem” …. is both circular and truthful (but not all the truth).
    The thing to find is a ‘secret’ hidden within the book, which I think appears somewhere after that ‘threshold moment’ (pg 70). Possibly beginning where every adult’s warm waters halt, at the 2nd cutting of the umbilical (pg 76), when each of us discovers our humanity beyond our religious and cultural impressments, when our individual judgment and morality become our deep reality, when both consequences and guilt are harsh. Which is why, youth is mercifully wasted on the young.
    I think what Fenn consciously wrote far supersedes any post-publication slips-of-the-tongue or shaded comments from casual interviews. I doubt they were even any part of Fenn’s thoughtful planning for his Treasure Hunt. Could he know the outcome would be international blogs, and thousands of seekers? Well maybe, being somewhat guaranteed by the size of the prize. But I think all who have read the book have been enriched, even without a physical gold nugget. The preponderance of attention given to his post-facto spontaneous comments seems a lazyman’s foolish industry to me, but so be it.
    Reducing the chase to a quickie poem, some verbal tête-à-tête & a 1-2-3 directional trip thru a bit of wilderness seems a too small a take-away from a book that is a soul baring expression on life, thought, and death. The author blew away millions in gold and loved things … to get us off the sofa? Really? I think Fenn’s gift to us deserves more respect, and needs to be digested in its wholeness. Finding the ‘it’ will be difficult, not accidental, and the solver will go with confidence.
    I could be wrong. Could be just a treasure hunt by a rich guy having some fun.

    • OS –

      Very eloquently said indeed. You just said what I could not – a total convincing meaning to why he did this and the out come he wanted. I truly believe when this is found – it’s going to blow everyone away the amount of work that Fenn put into the solve. You are so right – this is not just to be found on a Sunday afternoon picnic and everything is related – just as the poem is to the book.

  45. Thank you, OS2, great reality ck.
    We ALL need to remove the chips on the shoulders (I did say we…me too), and get along, even if our ideas dont.
    I admit, it got carried away, on BOTH sides, but it’s over, right Jaime?
    Let’s not disrespect F”s love of peace by quibbling.
    ~Donna~

    • Of Course Donna, surely if there’s one thing I’m certain of it’s that there’s enough nuts for all of us to share. It almost got funnier to write posts than it was to stay focused on the task at hand. Sorry for being a jerk and throwing balls around. I didn’t have a great breakfast today.

  46. Back to the maps;

    Dal:
    I just read your 2:24PM post about the “map” and its probably origin. Thank you so much. I suspected someone had been there very early to take a close look. To satisfy remaining questions, I might look into it further. Different maps maybe. No rock, log, book or leaf left unturned, so to speak.
    Thanks

  47. Good Sunday morning everyone! greetings friends!. i have missed you all. I have been busy and had to take a break from the chase. What have i missed? Last I heard everyone was hoping for a birthday clue from forrest.
    Sounds like it did not happen. Whats new? Any tid bits? Please let me know, if you don’t mind sharing.

    Lou Lee, chased by bears and lived to tell the tale.

  48. WWWH: Before giving birth; a woman’s “water breaks.”

    I interpret “birth” as an experience that FF could connect within the spiritual scope of his TTOTC poem.

    • Well, waters [ plural ] by definition means embryonic fluid. The second and third stanza could be explaining, begin at birth down the birth canal, not far is obvious, pit in hoB is location of birth. No place for the meek maybe life itself, no paddle up your creek could be difficulty of life teachings. HLAWH the end, as in burial ceremony.

      What I always found it interesting when read the poem like this is, fenn’s date of birth. August. Yes, the birth certificate claims TX. Yet in that time period 1930 ] he may have been born in another state or even while the family was traveling, and not recorded till the family got back to TX. Maybe we are looking for the actual birth place…. This is a stretch for me, but not totally outside any possibility.

      What were you thinking about with ” spiritual scope”?

  49. So now I’m quite in a fix here. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Hasn’t Forrest said… excellent search material is TTOTC,google earth and a good map.

  50. Wow. I can see my quest might have a long way to go. I haven’t even got close to trying to figure out what ISBN codes and the different colors in different printed editions of the books mean. I am still trying to figure out these things from the poem:

    How warm is warm? How cold is cold? How quick is quick? How far is far? How nigh is nigh? How high is high? How high am I? When is the end of ever? Where is there? Where is where? Where is it? What is it? Why is it? And does “it” depend on what the definition of “is” is?

    • Wow. Mark you’re falling behind you need to catch up… lol
      How high is high? I thought we were looking for how deep a hole is?
      I’m with you. I’ll stick to the poem.

      • Lol Seeker. Speaking of rabbit holes, I actually stole this comment of mine from something I wrote called “Codes, Cracks, and Crazies” a month ago after I saw the interview with the Andrew Briggs solve.

        I sent it to Dal but his email was bouncing at the time, at first I thought it was personal but then realized everybody’s email was bouncing but by the time I realized that I got self conscious about the whole post and never sent it again. I just read it again though and it made me laugh so I figured WTF I will post the private link on my neglected blog for you to read if you want to:

        http://rockandroll.me/?p=572

        • Mark –

          So, we have a heavy metal musician in the house ! Very cool…. Are you on the hunt for the treasure? Sure I’d like the to know the song.

          • inthechaseto,

            I am very much in the chase, if I took the time to write this codes and cracks thing and was not chasing the treasure I think I would be classified as crazier than I already am. At the moment I am trying to figure out when is the end of ever, hopefully my endever is drawing nigh…

            I am not sure what song you are referring to but I do have my treasure hunt playlist. I listen to this Grant Lee song Buried Treasure:

            Oh baby, don’t you know we’ve all got hidden treasures
            Do you remember such a time
            Before it was a sin to call yourself a dreamer
            And treasure was a thing to hide

            Bury in the woods where no one goes
            Hidden in a sailor’s chest of oak
            In a place where only you would know…

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkFFPe-cAjU

            And when I really want to feel I am getting in F’s mindset I listen to Frank Sinatra My Way lol:

            And now, the end is near
            And so I face the final curtain
            My friend, I’ll say it clear
            I’ll state my case, of which I’m certain

            I’ve lived a life that’s full
            I’ve traveled each and every highway
            But more, much more than this
            I did it my way

            Regrets, I’ve had a few
            But then again, too few to mention
            I did what I had to do
            And saw it through without exemption

            I planned each charted course
            Each careful step along the byway
            And more, much more than this
            I did it my way…

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E2hYDIFDIU

  51. I’m in NM and searching for Indulgence. I think I figured out the first two clues and why people pass by the chest. I figured out the connection to numerous hints in scrapbooks and FF’s books. And how Brigg’s partial solution links to the solve. But the last part of the poem is throwing me off. Today, I even saw searchers looking at the same places, but they just didn’t make the connection. It was an eye opener for me and helped me understand FF’s statement about searchers bring 200 feet etc. any suggestions on the interpretation of the last sentence?

    • IMO title to the gold is property! Now some will say property as in acreage but I’m thinking more like when you have to buy a burial plot, you own that land for life where you are buried IMO

        • lol can you say, oxymoron!

          Will, that is actually a great idea for the chest. And one of the reasons I asked folks a long time ago about what is involved if a “claim” But honestly i have not figured out how it would still work without a reading of a will. Not hand reading, Will… the one that as a title on it.

      • A title company is located near the HOB. I was thinking maybe Duty of Care and then a person claiming ownership (title) to the tangible property.

      • Begin it where warm waters halt in Tesuque -Little Tesuque. Take it in the canyon down. Go down Bishops Road to downtown Santa Fe.

      • Ready for this one? Not Far, but to far to walk. Put in below the home of Brown. Now, this is a good one. The Lobato house. The first Adobe house. The Brown collection was an estate of the Lobato house. Lobato sounds like Lokato from Brigg’s partial solution. Wait wait, there’s more. Owings gallery was responsibly for the estate sale and it was called the Brown Collection. I think, but NOT sure that Owings is a relative of Fenn.

      • Here’s more: on the roof of the Lobato house, there’s an arrow that points across the street to the Federal Court house where the U.S. Marshalls are at. The Federal court building was built as two buildings and get this– in the Greek revival style. I’m thinking two omegas. Fenn said he felt like an architect when he wrote the poem. Here’s more, Skidmore, Owings and Merrill are architects and that business is still active today. What’s the signia, a red box!

        • Look quickly down your quest to cease (US Marshall’s seize assets). Wise are also judges.

  52. So, let me share some of the solve. Start with the drawing of Tesque in the back of the book. WWWH is in Tesuque, take it in the canyon down Is Bishops Lodge Rd. It’s not far but to far to walk. I believe these are the two clues. IMO

    • Im thinking golf course links. Not surveyor links. At La Fonda, there’s a surveyor brass roundel right next to the building.

      • Rose,
        Interesting theory. Perhaps I’m mistaken but I’ve never heard of a “golf course link” being considered a standard of length (varys from hole to hole). So to say something is a given distance based on golf links is quite unique.

        Now if we assume an average course is 4 miles ( looked that up) and there are 18 holes that’s .22 miles per hole/link. So in your scenario you are correct…..66000 links would then be 14660 miles north of Santa Fe or more than 1/2 way around the world.

        Are you searching in Santa Fe, NM or Santa Fe, China?

        • @Colokid, I remember researching links and having trouble subscribing to the 8.25 miles definition. So, I looked up on Google the keyword “links” definitions and I remembered Golf course links. But, there are other links and that is why I didn’t rule out that area. Should we not considered other definitions of “links”? Has Fenn said that “links” are surveyor links? Do we know that for a fact?

          • Rose,

            Here is the original quote so that you can draw your own conclusion. IMO it was clear what he meant.

            Forrwst Fenn april 17, 2012 mountainwalk.org/2012/04/16/forrest-fenn-land-surveyor/
            “Since Richard mentioned the olden days lets harken to 1620 when universal land measures first became law in England and America. As you rode your horse into town you had to pass 80 telephone poles in order to reach a mile because they were 1 chain apart, or 66 feet. And each chain had 100 links, if
            you wanted to break it down further. Road rights-of-way also were 1 chain wide.
            And 80 square chains made a square mile, or 640 acres – and that was 1 section of land.
            But if you’d rather count fence posts you had to pass 320 in order to reach a mile because they were a rod apart, or 16.5 feet. And since everyone knew that an acre was 10 square chains (43,560 square feet) it was easy to tell how many acres were in your neighbor’s farm.
            Some aspects of those measures are still in use today in the horse racing business because a furlong is 10 chains in length, or 660 feet. You should feel smarter now because that’s so easy.
            If you want to apply those important figures into the thrill of the chase I will give you an additional clue. The Treasure chest full of gold and precious jewels is more than 66,000 links north of Santa Fe.”

          • Interesting. Thank you! But, what road is he using? Straight, curved, S type, etc? Is a furlong oblong?

          • So if he took a long route (oblong/furlong , circular, etc.) rather than a direct straight line, the distance may be much closer than we think–if we applied a straight line to Indulgence resting place. IMO

          • Rose –

            Most countries use the International System of Units (SI). In contrast, the Furlong/Firkin/Fortnight system of units of measurement draws attention by being extremely old fashioned, and off-beat at the same time.

            One furlong per fortnight is very nearly 1 centimetre per minute (to within 1 part in 400). Indeed, if the inch were defined as 2.54 cm rather than 2.54 cm exactly, it would be 1 cm/min. Besides having the meaning of “any obscure unit”, furlongs per fortnight have also served frequently in the classroom as an example on how to reduce a unit’s fraction. The speed of light may be expressed as being roughly 1.8 terafurlongs per fortnight (or megafurlongs per microfortnight).

            So, since furlong came from the word “furrow” it depends on who is driving the team as to how straight it is.

  53. I knew that cipher would be back to haunt me.It’s such a hot button issue on the blog.But not hot enough to win the bad advice contest, <enter swear word here)..I'm just gonna say, I love the lewis n clark cipher.I loved reading about it, learning how to crack it and how to write it.Can't wait to bust it out on my nephews for a christmas treasure hunt!..Have any of the veteran searchers looked around avalanche peak? If so, has anyone come across a, wikiup?

  54. No more searches for me this year but the weather was still good in MT and WY when we drove back to CA, and looks to be good for a while for those that still want to get in a search before the snow flies. I’ll be reevaluating my solve this winter, reading the books and poem multiple time, and try to see just what those 9 clues are as I am obviously wrong about them! 🙂

  55. Seeker,

    An open mind is an admirable quality to have.. You seem to have an ability to use yours…often! It’s much appreciated ~

    I wish that I were better able to express what defines “spiritual scope.” I will however, say that I have a strong sense that FF exemplifies his to a very high degree.

    Every journey in life from birth forward; has a destination. Some choose to move forward to theirs gifted with a unique something called …”IT.”

  56. Just was watching Dancing with the Stars.
    And nobody can compare to John Travolta. 🙂 🙂 🙂

  57. Rita Mae Brown…who most likely has nothing to do with any of the nine clues, once said:
    “One of the keys to happiness is a bad memory.”

    I must be a very happy person.

    Please keep that in mind as you look at my attempt to name people at Forrest’s book signing after-party. I have always had a hideous memory, even as a kid. So this cannot be blamed on dementia…although we needn’t rule that out either.

    I have added two photos with some names to the “invite” page. I apologize for forgetting names and for any I’ve gotten wrong. Cynthia helped because she has a much better memory than I.

    If you can help with names..please send me a note..
    I will attempt another photo with other individuals after I get over the embarrassment of not remembering names in those first two photos…

    http://dalneitzel.com/2015/08/22/lginvite/

  58. I’m surprised that there has been no disscusion on the serial commas in the poem and its ability to better understand the sentance that one is in. I believe stanza 2 is better understood once one has knowledge of the use of a serial comma.

      • somewhat surprising most searchers haven’t noticed this. Since Fenn used it meny times in the poem it must be important, might I add it maybe the thing that unlocks the poem, and your welcome cholly.

        • Well,
          Comma has a numerical value of 9.
          There are 13 in the poem.
          13×9=117
          =9.
          So, are we seeing a point of direction in relation to the comma’s?
          I know I just lost like 99% of y’all, but anyway,
          IMO! 🙂

          • For others who are in the dark like I usually am, letter values added up and reduced: c3 o15 m13 m13 a1 3+15+13+13+1=45 4+5=9
            Continue with this in mind

          • I’d,

            This poem’s solve may be as difficult as taking the result of your comma math, number nine, and have it solve to “comma”. Yikes!

        • Numbers are one way to look at it or another would be once you undetstand what a serial comma is then it may help to understand that “but too far to walk” has to do with the entire sentance that it is in.

          • Count,

            I guess I don’t understand the full definition of a serial comma then. It is usually used with the conjunctions and, or, and nor. And always with a list of three or more items.

            Can you fill me in on how it is used with “but”?

            Scott W

          • Scott,

            But is also a conjunction so it would be used the same. There are 3 serial commas in the poem.

  59. I invite you all to partake in a little side adventure of my creation…I am back from my latest search, and once again, I am without the trove of Fenn. But I visited a place so special and private and beautiful, I was inspired to hide another Pink Tutu treasure. Those of you new to this blog may be unaware of my first treasure that consisted of some silver and some odds and ends found with my metal detector, along with a note that gave the finder the ability to claim a special prize that I kept at my home…It was an author Signed copy of The thrill of the Chase. This new treasure includes a note to claim a signed copy of Too Far to Walk, and the value of the items in the cache exceed 300.00. It took someone from this blog just over one year to locate my last trove, and they claimed their prize by giving me the correct serial number on a piece of currency in the trove. The same method will be used this time. Please see my poem on the poetry page if you are interested in my challenge. it is not as difficult as Forrest’s, but it is harder than my last one was…good luck, and happy hunting!

  60. I am getting back into the online search of things for the winter months. I am curious if there are 9 clues or are there more than 9 clues? I know ff gave clues over the air. Are those clues within the 9 clues? or are they additional clues? Making it more than 9 clues. I am trying to determine what is a clue and what is not a clue, and how the known clues related to the original 9 clues.

    • I think no matter how many clues are there, using nine of them will lead to the treasure. that is my understanding.

  61. woneyedwilly,

    Forrest said in The Thrill Of The Chase “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure.”

    The sleeve of TTOTC said “Unlock the clues that are scattered among these pages and you can go home with a bronze chest that is so full of gold and precious jewelry that it’s almost too heavy for one person to carry”. It is not known for sure whether this sleeve statement meant the clues scattered throughout the book are the nine clues scattered throughout the page that contains the poem that is in the book or if there are more, it seems to imply there are more BUT:

    In the following statement he seems to imply that anything in the book other than the nine clues we know are in the poem are just hints: “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search.” This brings up the question “what is the difference between a hint and a clue?”

    He also said, to paraphrase, read the poem, then read the book, then read the poem again. This also seems to imply, IMO, that there are things in the book other than the poem that will help, so I do both. But I spend most of my time trying to figure out the nine clues on one page that has 24 lines that I know are there somewhere, that if deciphered and followed precisely will lead to the treasure, it seems like better odds in my mind than trying to figure out where clues and hints might be in 400 plus pages of text and pics and then what they mean if I find them, but I keep an open mind.

    Also since publishing TTOTC and the poem he has given what he has called clues as posted here on the Cheat Sheet page, ie:

    Where warm waters halt is not a dam.
    It is not in a graveyard.
    It is not in an outhouse.
    It is not associated with a structure.
    It is not in a mine.

    • Other hints that Forrest has provided at one point or another:

      The treasure chest is located between 5,000′ and 10,200′ in elevation.

      The chest is not in Nevada, Utah or Idaho.

      The chest IS somewhere in New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming or Montana.

      A comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.

      In response to the question, “Were both trips made on the same day/date?”, Fenn replied “I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.”

      “There isn’t a human trail in very close proximity to where I hid the treasure.”

    • A hint is what YOU think it is. It is completely YOUR thoughts. A clue is that which FF has stated as fact. FF says a multitude of things. Sometimes there are hints. But what those hints are is up to us to figure out. If he tells you something is a hint then it actually becomes a clue and is no longer a hint. To figure out the clues there are hints in his stories. I also firmly believe that sometimes it’s not what he puts in a story that is a hint but sometimes what he left out. Find the differences in what he says vs what he has written and you MAY find some clues. Then again I could be on the wrong track yet again. Did that clear anything up for you? I think I confused myself! But that is why this is so difficult. None of us are FF with all of his experiences. He will never divulge the hints but he has put the clues right out there for all of us to find, as in the poem, and to follow as in his public statements. But then again I think some of his public statements contain hints as well.

  62. My ebook solve will be called The Shadow Knows! I’m publishing it tomorrow, I think, of all goes as planned.

    • Michael H, I like your simplicity in 242 steps.

      Could also be mile markers 24, 42 or
      2.42 miles.

      And lets not forget the “not” = zero or naught; knot; 04

      How about:
      04 = Ophir (gold of Wise King Solomon)
      Did you know there was a community in Gallatin Canyon Montana on highway 191 called Ophir with an original 42 residents. Now one can visit the Historical Ophir schoolhouse museum at Big Sky Montana. It’s about 50 miles from west Yellowstone.

      • I’m not sure simplicity is used here imo. If reading sound alike words, too and to can do sound like two… yet far as four?

        Fore, forth, before, henceforth, etc. may have been better choices. Fenn rewrote the poem many time, over a long period of time, would changing the line here for sound alike wording be so hard to do? It is a poem and leaves room for different usage and presentation.

        Far by definition means right side. Could this line be saying, Not right, but two rights to walk. Maybe this is where after the first two clues searchers went wrong, and the wrong canyon was taken.

        Far seems a stretch to be Four if using sound alike words… just saying.

        • I feel like that is sort of the concept. For someone to analyze the poem enough to know that one way works better than another way. Eventually the person will be able to narrow it all down and it will fit in naturally. Basically it is trying to put a puzzle together from the blank side and not using the picture to guide you. I think of the poem as a bunch of Buzz-words or Phrases. If I see or hear the word “blaze” somewhere and it is tied to something of Gold or Chase or Wood or Brown, then I start researching where that “Blaze” came from. That will stay in my mind until I come across something of relation. Imagine if you ran into someone at the grocery store, and they introduced themselves with their name being “Eric Sloan”. The first thing you would think of would be Forrest Fenn. I bet every time you hear the word Blaze or Chase or Brown, you immediately think of the chase. I think that is the purpose, and that is why he suggests to read the poem over and over, so those words become subconsciously stuck in your head, and then you relate to it, if It makes sense with the homework that you have done. The reason why there is no shortcut is because this is like the Russian Nesting Dolls. You have to open them all to get to the last one. Even if you don’t think it relates to the chase, it might. You will never know, what doesn’t work just by judging it. You will also never know what works if you don’t try it out. A lot of what ff says is contradicting. It might be a good idea to not listen to him for a bit, and do it on your own and see where that takes you. Then go back to Fenn’s comments and see if they go along with your train of thought. If you are confirming spots that the chest is NOT at, and other people are looking in those same spots, then you are ahead of the game. Remember, if ff did this right before he died, then we would have no knowledge of the Toledos, DAMs, Outhouses, etc. All we would have is a poem, and maybe a book. Use the rest of the world to discover what is inside that poem. Forrest based his life on that poem, If he had to make it fit no matter what, he probably did a lot of research if he thought of everything. IMO
          Sorry for the long post. This is just how I look at things.

          • Some good points Willy, At times I approach the poem as having no connections to f’s life but an independent puzzle like most treasure chases are.

      • in the wood… 2×4’s (boards) Obviously wouldn’t last 1000 yrs, but if treated as wooden RR ties, may last 200 yrs. Just my texas water-logged thinking. nothing of value here.

      • OS2,

        Sounds reasonable to me. I’ll throw this out there just to see what may come… Synonym Far: End of Rainbow

  63. Seeker,

    Well, Rainbows are certainly bold (not meek) arcing across vast spaces, always they draw our focus, and in modern times promise a pot-o-gold at their end, an end that is ever drawing nigh. These colorful arcs have been awed & interpreted since the dawn of human wonder, but I cannot extract a more specific rainbow place in the Rockies.

    Maybe line 7 is just an anagram: Not far, but look at two.

    I feel very small.

  64. I’m working on a new solution and wanted to find out if a partial solution ever landed outside the highlighted regions of Fenn’s map? So, once it’s solved should bring be back into the highlighted region, but right now, i’m outside the highlighted region. My thought is that I need to mirror the location to put me one the right path. Suggestions/Comments?

    • Rose,

      There have been quite a few who have posted clues that are outside the search area, so you are not alone in this line of thinking. Examples have been WWWH being Canada, or hoB being the US/Canadian border.

      Regarding the mirror idea. I don’t recall reading anything about that as it relates to the way you are describing it.

      In my opinion, you would need a well defined line, boundary, or border in which to flip the image over to create the mirror effect.

      At one time, many moons ago, I had a “sort of mirror image” idea. I was convinced that the Santa Fe trail was the home of Brown since Joseph C. Brown was the surveyor. If you look at Brown’s maps, South was up and west was right; It was upside-down and backwards (sort of). So I was thinking, at the time, that below home of Brown was down on Brown’s map which meant it would be North on a typical map.

      Scott W.

      • You can fold the poem in it’s original in 1/2 and it lines up perfectly from one side to the other. Yeah, i know. I was just bored one night…

        • @Seeker, the poem led me to below Santa Fe. I found hints to help identify a couple of locations. I can confidentially go there, but I’ve done this before at a different locations and there was no chest. So, I’m making sure all pieces fit.

          • You can justify about anything in any sort of way.
            The fold need not be a straight line in order to make it a pay.

    • Suggestion, comment,

      When is your clue[s] outside the search area?

      I think we need to revisit what a “search area” means in relations to a clue and the chest itself.

  65. Who will find indulgence? Will it be desertphile or me? I’m taking one more trip to that special place before the snow flies. Wish me luck digingypsy 🙂

  66. Seeker:

    Searchers:

    Being new to the search and also a “strict poemist” not adhering to theories of codes, ciphers, etc. etc., I wanted to ask about previous blog discussions concerning the word “nigh” as it appears in the poem, “the end is every drawing nigh”. Many of taken the sentence to mean, “the end of the search is coming to an end, or your search is getting close. There are various other interpretations of the sentence. However, what was the discussion regarding the dual use of the word referring to “on the left”? I understand various dictionary definitions of the word, but how was it described if it had some connotation to “on the left”
    Thanks

    • Being of the “strict poemist — no devious misdirectionist” vein, I feel “end is nigh” refers to wherever “no place for the meek” ends.

      For example, if “no place for the meek” were a roller coaster ride, “the end is nigh” is where you think “thank goodness this is almost over”.

    • BigSkip,

      Every word in the poem has had a discussion about it at one time or another. Yeah, to hear or read all those would be a lot of time to catch up, Yet is serious about the chase… time well spent [ for the most part ]

      I may not be helpful to you, as I don’t see the poem as linear as most, at least from the start. The line ” The end is ever drawing nigh” imo hold a lot of information… to much to type out to be honest. But in part, End could be a border or boundary line. Ever [ Joseph left out ~ below ] Is important as it changes the line to mean ‘all’ or everything… always. This gives me the impression that it is not ‘just’ about the poem’s nearing the end of the journey, but what is being explained. Drawing; such as ; art, pulling, drainage, close etc. is another word that needs to be carefully considered. Nigh; meaning left side or near… has been talk about in many ways.

      I use all the meanings of the words. I believe the poem is layered to be read this way, so one could see the line as directions… a border or boundary line with a drainage area to the left or west side. Yet i also see that line as That everything will eventually come to an end, it always has been and always will. And see it as your journey [ the searcher ] is about 1/2 way through.

      There is more to that line that i use, but this is why the step by step approach and making each line a single meaning doesn’t work for me. where’s the imagination in just simply guessing a spot.

      This probably doesn’t help you… yet maybe you’ll take a second look at meanings and phrases differently.

      • Also Seeker, “The end is ever drawing nigh” has that semi-colon after it, the only one in the poem, it really stands out to me. The initial use of the semi-colon was “to allow a rapid change in direction in connecting interdependent statements.”

        In the “Mistakes Not Errors” interview on this site, a great little interview by the way, he talks about using a colon in his book “Seventeen Dollars A Square Inch” and then putting Eric Sloane’s book covers as opposed to text after the colon, and then the period, which apparently is unconventional, he said he did it twice and nobody ever caught it, he seemed to really get a kick out of it, like something clever he had done that nobody noticed. It makes me think he puts a lot of thought into punctuation, which in turn makes me put a lot of thought into the punctuation used in the poem.

        • Mark,

          Yep, a lot of thought. a colon in my understanding is like a listing after, WelL in it’s simplest form.
          The semi colon for me,as you stated connects something to something [ yes the lines of course ] but what exactly is the connection? Again, if we twist it a little… semi means 1/2. And it falls near mid way in the poem.

          Is this an indicator? can it mean you’re 1/2 way there. Can it be a hint to what the poem is about, and places you at the 1/2 way point of that description. This may not make sense to you so I’ll explain where my head is at.

          I believe the poem is about the RM’s themselves.
          The semi colon hint the 1/2way point of the range, No place for the meek refers to the CD. So in theory and location wise… it places you below Canada [ and that maybe why Canada got the boot ] puts you on the CD [ maybe why Idaho and Utah were eliminated ] and still leaves the four remaining states and their connection to each other.

          So can the connection of No Meek… to… heavy loads and water high, just be a description of actual locations? Joined together by the semi colon and narrows down the search area? as well as hints or eliminates the other 1/2 of the RMs’ that we now know.

          All in theory anyways.

  67. BigSkip again:
    Please forgive the typos and spelling issues. I think you get the idea of request.. Much too early.
    Thanks

  68. Joseph:

    Thanks for the reply. I agree with your comment. However, being of the school that FF cleverly used typical and non-typical words to describe a location in his word-map poem, I recall some discussion about “nigh” being used to also describe “on the left” which might be very important in the location analysis. Seeker and other senior searchers may recall these discussions
    Thanks

    • BigSkip re ‘nigh’ I never knew of nigh referring to left side of a horse until this past spring when I got into the Chase and this blog. To me it’s just always been an old folks from the country expression as; ‘I ain’t seen him sense nigh on a coons age….’ I’ve made up my mind to just keep ‘left’ in mind but to not put 100% into the idea of going left or west or east depending on which direction ‘canyon down’ will be. I think there are searchers that feel either way about the use of nigh…..This past summer there was a searcher with a fancy web site and it played oldies from the radio program Your Hit Parade and The Shadow, one of the characters used the expression….Not sure if this helps, IMO! Glad you are asking questions, keeps me thinking.

    • I have seen “nigh” being referred to as “left” quite often on this blog. However, I take it for the typical meaning of “near”.

      I cannot find it mentioned in any surveyor notes that mean anything other than near. Even Joseph C. Brown used “nigh” in his field notes, and it meant “near”.

      IMO – nigh means “getting closer”.

      Scott W

      • You always approach a horse on its left side. Since this is always the side you approach and mount from, it is considered the nigh side. The side that is near.

        Thought I would throw that in there in case it helps you with your nigh=left idea.

        Scott W

        • Hey Scott, I was always told you only approach a horse on the left side… I Googled it and found out that since most people are right handed therefore most soldiers would wear their sword on the left so they would have to mount on the left side. Also learned you would then have your right hand free to rope or open a gate… Sounds pretty logical…

          My mom always told me it was just because if you trained them to be mounted from the left then they would be accustomed to it…

    • could be both, too. Fortunately, I am not concerned because my “heavy load and water high” is a creek on the left after an exciting whitewater raft trip (that you can skip if you like)

  69. I have noticed that there are still many people talking about the treasure being buried or underwater. I have completely ruled out those scenarios as a result of FF’s statement that it can be scorched by fire. One other thing I would like to throw out there…. what if when you find the blaze you look quickly down STREAM. So many things FF says can be taken as hints but only FF knows if they are hints or not. I try to follow up everything I think MIGHT be a hint and if I am correct on what I believe is a hint that I won’t discuss, then the blaze is not always visible but can always be found. I will say that the Blaze I am looking at has a very close connection to the word WISE from “If you’ve been wise” in a single story in TTOTC.

    There is also a connection between his psa for New Mexico tourism and information in that story. In my opinion.

    I will also say that I firmly believe that it is in Yellowstone. Put in below the home of brown ( at 7 mile bridge). Not far but to far to walk. Both stated in The poem and in the prologue of the book TFTW. He walked 10 river miles over three days. It is on that walk that the searcher will find the Blaze then “look quickly down” RIVER. He told everyone what to look for I believe. BUT all of this suggests that I am following REAL hints, and FF will never tell. If he confirms a hint it becomes a clue and he stated very clearly he won’t give any more clues.

    I will say this. Read the prologue in TFTW. It states OPENLY that he got out of the river at Barns Hole Campgrounds. I actually sat down for over an hour and with Google Earth backtracked 10 river miles. Not straight lines but around every bend. 10 River miles starts at 7 mile bridge. From google earth look at 7 mile bridge, Barns Hole campgrounds and where both The Dude and FennHaven Cabins were. The Dude and FennHaven Cabins were right in the middle. FF knows this area of the Madison like it is his home. He was a professional fishing guide there! The trick is we must get to know that specific stretch of the Madison to find his secret.

    • Chris –

      Just a little heads up that – Forrest never said “scorched” to us.

      That statement was made by a reporter and never repeated again by anyone else. I doubt very much he would give a clue or hint like that. It’s up to you – if you want to believe what a reporter wrote. In the research I’ve done – many times they write what they think they heard and it is just not fact.

      Good Luck in your hunt.

      • inthechase,

        If that is the case, we shouldn’t listen to any and all reporters. [ personally I don’t ] yet fenn has given the impression in a Q&A on MW’s that fire can get to the chest… even use the example of looked what happened to the twin towers. Also stated wind could affect it… Earth doesn’t seem to be a factor, and nothing is absolute when it comes to natures natural events.

        That’s my take on it anyways…

        • Hi Seeker,

          Fenn said “..it’s probably already wet, and look at what fire did to the twin towers”, so I took it as a non-answer.

          http://mysteriouswritings.com/nature-makes-her-own-rules-says-forrest-fenn/

          Other non-answers I believe are: “..There is no other way to my knowledge.” when asked about if he took a shortcut; and “..I may be unable to grasp such a transient pleasure..” when asked about the chest being exactly where he wanted his bones.

          I think an important part of the solution is to be able to ignore some information that we might have perceived incorrectly, particularly when people are trying to pry hints from him.

        • I don’t know if this might help, but when forrest was asked if the blaze was a single object I believe he said “in a word, yes” I think the blaze is the word “endwise”

          If you’ve been wise you’ve Wisend and found the blaze (back to the beginning) Wisend=
          ENDwise. Then look quickly down the line to the end again. Now your quest to cease (the end)

          For me at least, the hardest part was finding tenses like that where everything fit in context end meaning correctly just so I knew what I was even looking at to begin with.

          100% IMO IMO IMO. But I started by resolving the poem and that how that line played out.

          • Oh yeah= quickly is also defined as “wisely” so plugging that in when looking back down to original “Wisend” made me like the fit at least semantically it was a pretty clean finish to square off a chunk.

  70. Seeker:

    Thanks for your comments and suggestions. As you can guess, I take a very straight forward approach to the solve recognizing FF abilities to disguise and/or
    confound the reader. I believe it’s all there, just the imagination and very deep research to find the spot. And I am beginning to believe, after five years now, that even being at the spot may not be enough to recognized the TC as I believe the elements are having their effects. I believe it’s not buried, but hidden, probably in plain sight some years ago, but that is changing. These factors will require a very close scrutiny of the area. Of course, all in my opinion.
    Thanks again.

    • BigSkip,

      Sure, time could cover it… if it’s not covered already [ not buried ]

      Yet the poem is to lead us to the precise spot. And fenn has stated “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

      I would hope that no matter how it was hidden or now covered that the correct solve would still place you at the spot. So maybe a little kicking dirt will be needed.

      You asked about the conversations on the word Nigh. could words in the poem lead someone to the chest by a step by step method, my answer is yes and um sorta no. I think there is a theme for lack of a better word, that is needed to be known, before you can see that type of instructions. And yes I can see stepping markers as well. Far; right side Nigh; left side, and with a bit of a twist could be east and west. Is “no place for the meek” to mean no place for the faint of heart, the timid etc. or as i like to think this means the CD has to the “back bone” of the RM’s nothing to do with shyness or being scared, but an actual location.

      Are we to be brave? or does brave just mean to take on a challenge? is in the wood just a forest or can it mean in the saddle and a saddle refers to a mountain pass, another actual location. I see locations just like everyone else, I just don’t see them as simple as others hope them to be.

      Does that make sense? and if it does. I say it only to open a train of thought… not saying it is the correct way.

  71. Does Forrest ever respond to people’s questions in this forum? I believe he once stated that whomever solves the poem will go with confidence. Yet, so many people “thought” they solved the poem and went with confidence. My question to Forrest would be at what clue would we know we are on the right path?

    • Never underestimate the confidence of the self-deluded. I’ve “marveled” at the places that some people have spent time and money investigating on little more than a hope and a prayer.

  72. I’ve been over at chase chat the last couple days reading through old discussion posts.Dont worry guys I used de lousing powder before I came back here.It’s pretty neat to see how the chase has evolved from then until now.I also have a greater appreciation for the work, Goofy and Dal do on this blog to keep it running tight,and classy.Thanks…Ok,just watched a new, F, utube video.He gives advice to people about going out into the mountains or the desert.In the video Forrest says he knows the chest is still out there, and sounds pretty sure of it.He’s so crafty, I love it.How does he know with such certainty it’s still out there? Could be a clue or hint in that statement imo.

  73. OFF TOPIC:
    A doc film crew from NYC is looking for searchers from NY/NJ/CT/MA/PA area. Let me know if you are from one of those states and might be interested in talking with them about their project and possibly being on camera.
    dal at lummifilm dot com

    • Someone corrected me yesterday when I stated that FF said that the chest could be scorched by fire. The person that corrected me said that it was a reporter that made that statement and I realized that he/ she was correct. Has FF to the best of your knowledge ever corroborated the statement that the chest could be scorched by fire? At the very least does anyone know for sure if the reporter quoted FF accurately? Thank you Dal

  74. Seeker:

    BigSkip here,

    Thanks for the reply. I suspect we are doing the same thing. I simply believe that FF wanted to keep it simple and did an amazing job in disguising locations via a very difficult poem. I believe it’s right in front of us as evidenced by his admitted short trips to the TC location and many of his comments. The poem is the long way there if you don’t know where it is and are trying to find it. But for FF, it’s very close. He takes the short cut. I believe this because I stumbled upon two bits of information that fit the poem nicely, but those items required a fair amount of research and are indeed very simple. If I am able to complete the poem and am able to venture out to find the chest, I think we all would be amazed at the poems simplicity and TC location. I often wonder if there will be a great deal of disappointment when the facts are disclosed. Of course, all in my very humble opinion.
    Thanks again

  75. Zaphod,

    You seem pretty confident how other’s solutions are incorrect and wasting their time on a hope in a prayer, not finding gold at the end of their rainbow. (Of course its at the end of f’s rainbow.)

    I wish you luck and such confidence in your solve, you may just find the end of f’s rainbow. I hope you or somebody finds the chest while I am still alive, what a celebration we all would have.

    • Hi Uken2it — I wish I could say that I had found a good solve. But my requirements are stringent, and everything “interesting” that I’ve found so far has also been found wanting. I have a high threshold for a complete solution, and everything I’ve found and everything I’ve read that everyone else has found has been too far off the mark.

      My search method is very slow, but methodical. If all areas are equally likely for the treasure chest, then I haven’t quite covered half of them yet. I figure there’s no hurry; as they say in Game of Thrones, winter’s coming.

  76. Seeker:

    Forgot to add in support of my opinion, I believe Forrest’s description in the paragraph at the top of page 125 in TTOTC tells us that his special secret places of a half century ago when he was a kid are possible tourist stops of today. He can’t prevent that as the memories of his youth are so strong he can still “exclude the intrusion of strangers”. The question remains, can he hid a treasure there?
    Thanks

  77. The area the treasure is in was not Texas at one point, but is now. The Compromise of 1850 decided it’s fate.

    The treasure is here, or close to there.

    30.5419553 n -98.4010169 w

    SANTA FE
    The exact location of a certain area may be described differently, even if one uses a reference point. The locals may call a location Mexico, the new arrivals Texas, the ancient ones home, and the U. S. government New Mexico, Colorado, and Utah. The new arrivals, called Texans, wanted more land and called the territory they wanted “Santa Fe.”

    Instead of doubling Texas’ size, the area Texas called Santa Fe faded into history. Much of the Santa Fe area was never considered Texan land and Texas received 10,000 dollars for some of the land. There are differing maps outlining this Santa Fe territory. At least one of those maps has a border right below my search area. SO, my search area and solve is within THE TERRITORY Santa Fe. The city of Santa Fe, NM, is also in the TERRITORY Santa Fe, btw.

    TOO FAR TO WALK
    For me, too far to walk is relative. Before I walk, I calculate effort and distance. I can’t see well out of one eye so night time walking, or even driving, 91 miles is not a going to be a part of my plan. But for Forrest Fenn, too far too walk may have been 91 miles. Forrest tells that he went to Texas A and M until they figured out he didn’t pay the bill. Too bad he didn’t live in Europe where many times tertiary education is free, effort reigns superior, and productivity is high. He says when Texas A and M officials told him to leave he walked away, and I think he ended up walking through tough terrain inTexas.

    GOOGLE WORDS, END UP HERE
    A cipher is involved in this treasure hunt but that is not what led me to the area where it is hidden. The idea of a cipher blows me out of the water. In retrospect, of course Fenn used a cipher. Instead of using the cipher directions, though, I stumbled upon the location of the treasure by Googling key words. There are apparently several levels to the cipher. See this chance to buy as n interpretation of that the cipher.

    [I’m referring to Andy Briggs’ ebook Title to The Gold]

    MISSED IN THE INTERPRETATION OF THE CIPHER —

    I just gave you the nod to an ebook where the author explains what a cipher is and what he found in Forrest Fenn’s poem. I agree that the author’s findings are important, but I think the author missed something in the very first line of his decipher. He misses two important letters. “P” and “C”. PC added to the next letters “ON” together is Pecan. Cross the lake, take Pecan creek, and then follow the rest of Briggs’ decipher. But the book.

    SO WHERE?
    The Shadow Knows. Forrest Fenn’s map’s shadow, that is. There are highlighted states on Forrest’s map but the early version of the map had a large shadow area. My city was on the map, in the shadow. The map has since been reduced in size.

    GOLF
    Many times we see Forrest Fenn possibly refer to golf. Double eagle, 66,000 golf links, and in the answer to the cipher. The green is a golf green. It strikes me as odd to find green where prickly pear cactus, rock and flooding should be.

    THE CITY, THE COUNTY
    The area I found by Googling key words is hard to research. It is comprised of the very bottom of Llano and Burnet counties. Old maps offer discrepancies. Is there even a Pecan Creek on those old maps? Sometimes not. If Forrest walked the area, what did he use as his guide? Did he follow water or telephone lines? Streets? Anyway, and why wasn’t he walking in or near Temple, his home town? I did research Temple, too, but couldn’t find the match for where warm waters halt and the home of Brown. My initial Google search had produced the right area.

    HORSESHOE BAY
    Horseshoe bay, Tx, has changed a lot over the years. The Colorado River, one of two Colorado Rivers in the U.S., was dammed to produce a few lakes. Goat farmers probably watched in awe as the land changed from one kind of beauty to another. What was prickly became green, especially when several golf courses and a resort were established in the area. The resort owners named the area Horseshoe Bay. This is the area my Goggle search brought me to. Marble Falls, TX, is the closest city.

    THE LAKE
    The lake now called LBJ used to be Granite Shoals. Horseshoe Bay used to be an area of land which was probably known only as Llano county and Burnet county. Like I said, the closest city is Marble Falls. Google that to see for yourself. When you do that you’ll run into information about the power plant, which expels warm water into Lake LBJ.

    THE ROCKIES
    Have you ever noticed it’s hard to tell where the Rockies begin and end? If you gave a classroom of kids the assignment to draw the Rockies on a map they all would turn in a beautiful map that was slightly different from their neighbor’s map. All of the maps would have to be awarded full points. Anyway, elevation maps show the Texas hill country to be a part of the geological formation we call the Rockies. If Forrest Fenn left Santa Fe, New Mexico, en route to Texas, he’d have to cross the Rockies. So, he crossed the Rockies to place the treasure, and Texas Hill county might still be the Rockies, and and so all he’s said about the Rockies is correct. The feet measurement is how far from the lake, I think.

    FORREST’S POEM
    Today, Horseshoe Bay, Tx, is largely a resort or is land that is a part of the many golf courses. The water treatment plant located south of town produces water to keep the golf courses green. I believe old creeks were rerouted to prevent flooding in the event of a heavy rain. At least I read that the Hurd brothers rerouted water.

    WWWH ( Where warm waters halt) – The power plant, or the rerouting of creeks.

    No paddle, or up sh it creek. – Dry Creek

    Heavy Loads on High – The water treatment plant, sh it up the creek.

    Brave and in the wood- there’s what looks to be a two-tiered driving range and if you are walking in the wood nearby, watch out for golf balls. The driving range is hard to find of you are Googling the key words “driving range”. Some golf sites are even wrong about the location of the golf courses, undermining the names. The driving range is near the street Azurite.

    HOME OF BROWN
    The Luptons and the Browns used to own the area before it was turned into a resort. The locals called the ranch the “Coke Ranch” because Browns and Luptons were associated with a Coca- Cola bottling facility.

    TARRY SCANT AND MAVEL GAZE
    Say this out loud. It’s Texan drawl for Terry, Scott, and Marbel guys. Marvel Folls guys. Until recently, Dr. Terry was located in Horseshoe Bay at the Scott and White Clinic right off of Pecan Creek.

    THE BLAZE
    See aaBrigg’s decipher to understand about the blaze. I initially thought it was the burning station at the treatment plant. It’s not.

    HORSESHOE BAY STREET NAMES
    The streets are named after riches old and new. There’s Tungsten, Silver Hill, Diamond Hill, Apache Tears, Syncline, and more. There’s also streets called Swear Injun, Two Sisters, Close Call, and Mountain Home, Look Here, and Up There. Zoom in to see all the street names. Forrest mentions street names in his videos.

    MY TRAVELS
    I’ve gone to Horseshoe Bay twice. I didn’t read the decipher until AFTER the second trip. Both times I went we drove to Texas, looked for treasure, and camped on the beach. Lake Travis has lovely beach shore and so does Corpus Christi / Port Aransas. When we stayed on the beach in Corpus Christi we were not looking for treasure but instead enjoying the vacation. My husband isn’t going back there, ever, he says. It was 106 degrees all week one of the times we went. The second time he went only to see our eldest daughter who agreed to go treasure hunting with me – and we flew her into Austin as a birthday gift. My youngest daughter drove with us to see my eldest daughter. My youngest is very practical and is not the type to hunt for treasure. She and my husband stayed at Lake Travis while my eldest and I donned leather boots and walked the Pecan Creek area. If I ever get back to Texas, it will be alone, and it won’t be in the next few years. I never found the blaze but I believe the treasure is in Horseshoe Bay, TX. If you look for the treasure inn the area, my thoughts are that you don’t need to stay in one spot long unless you see the blaze.

    MY PROSE – (note- ain’t LBJ is in Forrest’s poem, in the first letters of the lines. Read from top to bottom.)

    Man abrupts the water flow.
    Redirecting the green.
    More than the shadow knows
    There’s five, one with wings.
    Hopefully he flies.
    Rough and rugged, prickly too and
    Not a good compromise.
    Spheres of influence become trivial unless one smacks you in the head.
    Let’s walk the foundation before we say hi to the clinically impressed down Below.
    Just saying.
    Ain’t is not a word. Truth is arrived at through consensus

    • Here you go Holly. You really should do a little research, it would have saved you a lot of time coming up with your Texas solution:

      Q: Have you narrowed the search area for the treasure?
      A: Yes, I said the treasure is hidden in the Rocky Mountains at least 8 miles north of Santa Fe, excluding Utah, Idaho, and Canada. I have said it is above 5000’ and below 10,200.

      http://dalneitzel.com/2015/08/16/forrest-gets-mail-8/

      Q: I suspect the treasure is buried behind their gravestone. I can furnish you with the reasoning behind this conclusion. I call it common decency, to ask before I dig.

      To which Forrest quickly replied:

      A: The treasure is hidden north of Santa Fe. Texas is south. Please don’t dig up my parent’s graves. f

      http://dalneitzel.com/2011/09/05/youve-got-mail/

      Q: I haven’t seen where anyone has asked you if you mean Santa Fe, New Mexico or another Santa Fe. I think we all assume Santa Fe, NM but there is a Santa Fe, TX as well as in other states. Have you specifically said New Mexico? Maybe we should expand our search area to in the mountains somewhere north of Santa Fe, Argentina. Once again, if I ask too much please forgive me and disregard this e-mail. I have really enjoyed this puzzle, thank you.

      Forrest responds-

      A: I didn’t think of that Franklin. But yes, it’s Santa Fe, New Mexico. f

      http://dalneitzel.com/2012/10/02/forrest-gets-mail/

      It ain’t in Texas Holly.

    • Holly please read.
      This is an exact quote from Forrest Fenn…..
      “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or CIPHERS, WILL NOT ASSIST ANYONE TO THE TREASURE LOCATION , although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.” f

  78. The area the treasure is in was not Texas at one point, but is now. The Compromise of 1850 decided its fate.

    The treasure is here, or close to there.

    30.5419553 n -98.4010169 w

    SANTA FE
    The exact location of a certain area may be described differently, even if one uses a reference point. The locals may call a location Mexico, the new arrivals Texas, the ancient ones home, and the U. S. government New Mexico, Colorado, and Utah. The new arrivals, called Texans, wanted more land and called the territory they wanted “Santa Fe.”

    Instead of doubling Texas’ size, the area Texas called Santa Fe faded into history. Much of the Santa Fe area was never considered Texan land and Texas received 10,000 dollars for some of the land. There are differing maps outlining this Santa Fe territory. At least one of those maps has a border right below my search area. SO, my search area and solve is within THE TERRITORY Santa Fe. The city of Santa Fe, NM, is also in the TERRITORY Santa Fe, btw.

    • Browns and Luptons owned the Coke ranch

      The power plant expels warm water

      PC and ON are in Andy Briggs Title to the Gold ebook decipher

      Fenn’s map was much larger before, and Horseshoe Bay Tx was in the far right hand corner.

      The coordinants I gave you are a part of a driving range and are in the wood. I think the treasure is in the ledge.

      If you don’t see the f blaze, don’t even bother looking long in any spot.

      Tarry Scant and Marvel gaze said out loud in Texan drawl is Terry Scott and Marble guys. The Scott and White clinic is on the Pecan creek.

      A water treatment plant is at the end of Dry Creek, which branches off from the Pecan Creek.

      The streets are Twin Sisters, Up There, Tungsten, etc. Google in closely to see the names. There’s even one called Look There or Look Here.

      Good luck. Don’t disturb the neighbors or the golf games.

      • Also, the Rockies go farther down than I previously thought. Elevation maps show the Texas Hill Country to be a part of that same elevation ridge.

        The territory that didn’t come to be, Santa Fe, had a border line about 8 miles below Horseshoe Bay.

        • Holly-
          Your reasoning makes no sense to me..primarily because the USGS tells me where the Rocky Mountains are located..and your spot is not part of the Rocky Mountains by anyone’s definition except your own..but feel free to send the USGS and Forrest a note so they can correct their errors.

      • Holly…this is ridiculous. You are leading people on a wild goose chase and intentionally misleading them. Your search area is less than 1000ft in elevation, so based on this alone you can rule it out. Fenn said Santa Fe, New Mexico, not territory.

        • Holly, Fenn has addressed this question several times; he has been very clear he is talking about modern day Santa Fe, New Mexico. It’s not in Texas.

          • Goofy, I couldn’t and can’t find where he said that. The city of Santa Fe is in the territory of Santa Fe. If Fenn was no to Horseshoe Bay, I’ll believe it.

          • @Goofy and Dal, I think it would be good to have clarification on Santa Fe. I noticed there’s also Eldorado at Santa Fe and Santa Fe County. I guess I need to know that present day City of Santa Fe, NM is what Fenn is referring to. Clarification on age of a map (current day or past) and where it’s city or county. IMO that would help me.

        • ***WARNING***
          To ANYONE who thinks the Chest is in Texas and specifically in the Horseshoe Bay area:

          All property in that area is Private Property.

          While most Texans are friendly and congenial,Texans are huge on Private Property rights.

          You would probably have a better chance with the grizzlies in MT or WY than you would if caught on some of these properties.

          This is a resort area and there are affluent people from all over the US (and some foreign) who maintain residences there, some of which are in the +Million range.

          Security in some places is private and are apt to shoot first, ask questions later!!

          jus’ sayin’

          • LOL, shoot first, ask questions later…

            I wonder if that will be in her tell all book?
            New Title; Facts? I don’t need no stinking facts

            You forgot to mention the area is under 900’… you’re slipping Loco.

          • Seeker: Nah, Goofy had already covered those “facts”.

            I was just throwing a “FINAL” fact out there for those who might be inclined to ignore all of the other facts!! 🙂

      • Goofy,

        I’m not leaning to “now Texas” but she did make me think… What was when?

        Any level of US history? NO… but …
        Poem, book, GE and/or good map
        North of SF
        RM’s
        Not in Utah

        Still a big Territory…

    • Holly-
      I suppose just because Forrest said it’s in the Rocky Mountains..which your spot is not..is no reason to believe you’re incorrect.

      I suppose just because Forrest has stated several times that it’s not in TX..which your spot is..is no reason to believe you’re incorrect.

      I suppose just because Forrest has stated that the chest is hidden north of Santa Fe, NM…which your spot is not..is no reason to believe you’re incorrect.

      I suppose just because your spot is not even close to being on the map.. is no reason to believe that you are incorrect.

      But I have to say…I think you are incorrect…but entertaining!!

        • The search area is defined by the map in TFTW. In addition, the elevation is incorrect. I did appreciate the history aspect of your comments.

        • Holly-
          Goofy just did quote Forrest’s statement that it’s not in TX…Look Above-
          I think you could benefit from reading and comprehending more before you start thinking and plotting…

        • Holly, I don’t know how it gets any plainer than this. And, he has since confirmed that when he speaks of Santa Fe, he means Santa Fe, NM.

          http://dalneitzel.com/2011/09/05/youve-got-mail/

          I suspect the treasure is buried behind their gravestone. I can furnish you with the reasoning behind this conclusion. I call it common decency, to ask before I dig.

          To which Forrest quickly replied:

          The treasure is hidden north of Santa Fe. Texas is south. Please don’t dig up my parent’s graves. f

    • upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c5/Route_of_the_first_Santa_Fé_expedition.jpg

      One of the better, earlier maps.

  79. Dal,

    Yesterday I stated “I have noticed that there are still many people talking
    about the treasure being buried or underwater. I have completely ruled
    out those scenarios as a result of FF’s statement that it can be scorched
    by fire.

    Then inthechaseto stated “Forrest never said “scorched” to us.
    That statement was made by a reporter and never repeated again by
    anyone else.”

    To the best of your knowledge has FF ever corroborated the statement by
    the reporter?

    • “Mr Fenn, in relation to the final resting place of the chest, which of the 4 natural elements (Earth, Wind, Water, Fire) would mostly compromise it resting? ” ~ James

      “I know what the question is. I don’t think earth can hurt it, under the right conditions wind might affect it, it’s probably already wet, and look at what fire did to the twin towers. Nature makes her own rules, James, so I try to not be absolute when talking about her.”

      Chris, Take it for what it’s worth.

      • I guess I didn’t word my question correctly. Reporters have come out and said that FF buried the treasure. To which FF has stated he never said that.

        So I guess my question more properly worded would be… Has FF ever come out and state that the reporters statement was incorrect?

  80. Pwfth. You guys are hard to convince. Try looking at the coordinants again. Fenn says ma,y of those numbers in the video Pilot Training. Ok, I guess I can get there in 5 years or so.

  81. Once again, and for the last time for,a few years…. The Rockies really go down farther than I thought. I tried to find the bottom of them. Maps vary. And elevation maps show consistent elevation all the way down to the Texas Hill country. I’ve gone to Horseshoe Bay twice, but I didn’t read Andy Briggs’ decipher first. I’ve sent Andy my solve and posted it on FB.

  82. briggs’ decipher is absolutely spot on. He misses the first two letters in line one. “PC” added to “ON” is Pecan. Reads his book, the street to follow is named.,

      • Jeremy, try running the answers I gave you like Power plant” and use only the action words in the poem.

        • Hey, Holly. No disrespect to either you or Mr. Briggs, but I gave it a fair shot and came to the (personal) conclusion that you’re going to get meaningful patterns out of a lot of things that you run. You can interpret this in a number of ways, but to me it means it’s probably just noise.

          Best of luck in your solving. I just wanted give you a heads up in case you hadn’t considered additional information that Briggs either wasn’t aware of or dismissed in his own solve.

          There’s a lot of statements Forrest Fenn has made that could help you out. Some of these seem to be pretty important and aren’t in Briggs’ book. Here’s some links to get you started:

          http://dalneitzel.com/cheat-sheet/
          http://dalneitzel.com/2015/07/04/seeker/

          Good luck!

    • Read the prologue to FF’s book TFTW. He states the ten river mile walk is “for me now just to far to walk”. What does the Poem say? Not far, but to far to walk. The treasure is between his “put in” at seven mile bridge and his take out at Bakers Hole Campgrounds. He has been VERY open about that. Ciphers will NOT help.

      • FF openly stated in that Preface that he “fished downstream to Bakers Hole” and ” The river distance was about ten miles” I personally using Google Earth, measured around each and every bend of the river. Took me a little over an hour. I wanted to be very precise in my measurements. Backtracking 10 river miles I wound up at 7 mile bridge. His “put in” if you will. He, FF, stated “put in below the home of Brown”. That stretch of water is highly prized for fishing for Brown Trout. FF stated in the Preface that ” the best fishing spots were in the bends where the water turned greenish deep”. High water? FF stated in closing ” The river experience cemented my connection to that special country…”

        If FF isn’t telling us plain as day that it is between 7 Mile Bridge and Bakers Hole then I guess I am totally deluded.

        • At 6.3 miles into that 10 river mile trip guess where you are at. .75 miles from where FF had the Dude Motel and from where his parents had there motor lodge. Right where he spent at least twenty summers.

        • From that point in the river you need to look for where the river gets “green and deep” That happens in quite a few places. However in one of those places you will find the blaze. Knowing what the blaze IS is key though. I have a possible idea though. He mentioned it in his book TTOTC but omitted it in his New Mexico PSA. And “it” is often spoken of synonymously with the word “blaze”. However “it”, the blaze, is not always visible. Yet it is always there and can be found.

        • Very interesting Chris. I do have a couple of questions for you though regarding this location. How do you solve heavy loads and no paddle up your creek? Also, this stretch of the Madison is very open. How would someone hide a treasure in such an open area without the wrong person stumbling upon it?

      • Or perhaps he is defining the distance that is tftw. I doubt that he would give the location that easily.

        • Why would you doubt that? He stated publicly it is where his heart is.

          It’s “where my heart is,” Fenn writes in “Ramblings and Rumblings.” His parents returned every summer of their lives, his mother dying in a trailer park near Cameron, Montana, just north of the park, where the west fork of the Madison River runs into the Lower Madison River.

          http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/03/03/clues-for-finding-forrest-fenn-s-buried-treasure-part-2.html

          • I am very aware of those comments by Mr. Fenn. I am not saying that you are wrong either. I am very aware of his ties to the area along the Madison, The Dude, Fennhaven, Cameron, etc. I am saying that it seems like too easy of a give away and it is possible that he is merely defining the distance that is NFBTFTW in a subtle way.

          • Chris, I believe these comments imo tell me that if the information in the book is needed, then the poem can’t be solved on it own.
            “All the information… is in the poem”
            ” a couple good hints… aberration that live out on the edge”

            And as you said / asked about the accuracy of the reporter, can you trust that information to be fully correct?

            Your using something from the book as a definite needed clue. With out that information, could you solve the poem?
            —————————————————–

            “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f”

            And…

            “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.”

            There is always a check and balance needed when reading second and third hand information.

      • Chris-
        That’s your opinion..Forrest has said many things but he never, ever said the the treasure was located in YNP or any other exact location. There are hundreds, perhaps thousands who interpret the clues to take them to a different place…so don’t mislead others by saying that Forrest said the treasure is
        “between his “put in” at seven mile bridge and his take out at Bakers Hole Campgrounds.”
        He never said that..
        Don’t mislead others..
        Make sure you emphatically mark your interpretations as “In My Opinion”…

  83. What Forrest said was Don’t mess with my poem. That’s what all Texans say, don’t mess with Texas. Chris, a cipher won’t help. A decipher will. And buy Andy Briggs’ book, it tells which road near Pecan Creek. And then it says to watch the videos. And my coordinants are mentioned in his video Pilot Training. If it is not in the foundation of Brown, it could be in the hollow tree in Twin Sisters. Incidentally, there’s a huge trap big enough to catch Godzilla at Twin Sisters. Eek.

    And, if not there, there is a Rain Bow street off Mountain Leather. Feel free to send half the treasure to me. I think I’m not getting any of it though, looks that way.

      • Holly, I’ve held my opinion til now…the FACT is, Briggs has been here in USA searching before, in NM & WY to follow his solves. Those facts are on the internet.
        So, besides Fenn saying the treasure map in the back of TFTW which encompasses his 4 search states, and NOT in TX, (not 1800 TX or currentTX), you are not understanding Brigg’s solution. Well, I don’t either, but at least HE has them stationed in one of the four correct states.
        I love the fact that you are so detail oriented, dang! If you get your sense of direction straightened out, you may find the treasure!
        Please take the advice of Dal, even if you ignore all else, he won’t stear you wrong with quotes. Also, explore this site with as much diligence as you did for your TX solve! You will see all your mistakes and understand the chase better.
        ¥Peace ¥

  84. A lot of thought and work goes into a “solve.” – As long as it doesn’t cause harm, I admire anyone who at least makes the effort.

  85. Rose, the city of Santa Fe is in the territory Santa Fe. If you ask him, carefully choose your words I think. And I’m not writing a book, I decided against it. It’s Forrest’s story, not mine.

  86. So, Too Far to Walk is a nod toward his leaving Texas A and M. When I walked Horseshoe Bay for hours in a row, I would have died if I didn’t bring water. I wondered how Forrest could have made it back then. But that is one extremely cool thing about Forrest. He takes the unfortunate and makes it a bonus.

    • Holly,

      Dal, Goofy and others have supplied you with quote directly from FF. Some are: above 5000′ and your area is far below, North of S.F. NM. Not south of, and your area is far south, You say the RM’s are in that area, yet with all the information shown they are not. There are many other debatable pieces of information that contradicts your claim of where the chest is…

      How do you explain those are wrong and you are correct?

      • Didn’t Forrest say something about not correcting someone when they say something that is wrong. 🙂 If Holly wants to believe the treasure is in Texas, let her. One less person in the 4 states where Forrest said were in the search area for the TC. 🙂

    • Holly, I appreciate the effort that you have put into your solve. However, there 2 issues that you cannot get around:

      1. The elevation is not as defined by Mr. Fenn. He has stated that the TC is sitting between 5,000 and 10,200 feet above sea level.

      2. Your solve is not in the search area for the chest as defined by Mr. Fenn in the map in TFTW. The TC is the highlighted area on this map. See the link.

      https://hidden620.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/mapforweb.jpg

      • 1. The golf driving range is between 5000 and 12000 feet from the lake.

        2. Look at the map on True West magazine. Forrest Fenn’s never before published map. Horseshoe Bay is in the shadow.

        • What is the above sea level elevation of the driving range? The distance form the lake is not relevant to that issue. The map that Mr. Fenn has defined as the one that contains the search area for the TC is the in TFTW which I linked above. Other maps do not matter. That is not to say that the path to the TC has to be on the map, but the TC is hidden in the area defined by the map in TFTW.

          • The map’s shadow knows. And it is possible that tricky Fenn is using the lake as his “sea”.

    • Holly, some would say Forrest ‘took’ the fortunate of Hollywood making a fortune selling them the best of western art. Additionally, Forrest must now have a strong affiliation with A&M to allow them use of the Fenn Cache in archaelogical study/research.

  87. In his New Mexico PSA there was an omission in his words but nobody would know that if they didnt connect it with his book TTOTC. There was also wording in the PSA that he used to draw people into the PSA. There was a LOT of talk about it on all of the blogs. If you can find it in his book TTOTC you might be able to find out what the omission was. And he spelled it wrong both in his book AND on his website Old Santa Fe Trading Co. The omission is often used synonymously with the word blaze. Am I correct? I don’t know but I find everything I stated above to be very interesting. I also find it very interesting that if I am correct the blaze can not always be seen.

      • The water is cold. I fell in the Madison last year in April. Trust me it’s cold. If you take the trip he wants you to take and put in or get in the water it’s gonna be cold.

  88. Seeker
    “Your using something from the book as a definite needed clue. With out that information, could you solve the poem?”

    YES I just cannot tell you how. It would give away to much. Sorry

  89. I just reread the poem to double check. Yes. That which is in the book is only there to give you insight into his mind and what he was thinking when he wrote the poem. The more you understand his thinking the more the poem makes sense. I believe he was totally truthful when he stated that the poem is straightforward and follow the clues in order till you reach the end and the treasure. I am paraphrasing of course. Yes it IS straightforward. My only unknown is do I have the correct blaze. The one I am pondering is very interesting.

  90. Wouldn’t it be the ultimate irony & marketing coup if Forrest was actually behind penning these e-books under other’s names like The Wolf, Holly, Andrew Briggs, etc making money out the side door on his own game.
    NOT saying it’s true, but funny to consider none-the-less.

    • And that is how stupid rumors start. To “consider none-the-less” it would be utterly ridiculous. And to be honest is an insult to some the others who wrote a book for entertainment. And one, for the sole benefit cancer research.

      • Ah Seeker, you took my comments too seriously and completely different than the context they were meant.

        It was said with a sense of humor and meant as nothing more than a complement to Forrest. Anyone reading will immediately see NOT in full caps so that no rumor could be associated.

        • Seeker, You make me understand how impossible blogs are to hear what is truly being said. No one hears a chuckle, or intake of breath, etc.

          I must say, Dal is excellent at conveying emotion and nuances with words. Unfortunately, I’m not. Try to laugh Seeker, its a healthy thing to laugh at others and yourself. It’s what gets me through life.

          • Couple of these 🙂 🙂 😉 helps out or you could be me and know one takes me serious lol

    • nothing would surprise me anna, there seems to be a u turn jsut when you think you’ve got something concrete. he’s a wonder all right.

    • Yikes Holly! You should NEVER give out your personal info on the internet! You might want to ask Dal or Goofy to remove it!

  91. I’ve been poring over my book of words today, and I think that I’m teatering on the right location. No paddle up your creek faces my biggest challenge on the mountain. So, I certainly won’t make another trip until I’m sure. My dear wife told me last time that she needed new scatter rugs, and “don’t come home without it” I owe her.

    • busyB,
      “don’t come home without it” That sounds like an invitation to a long vacation… I’m pretty sure there maybe a clue that refers to Las Vegas, You may need to stay a couple weeks to rule it out. If you’re looking for a partner to help search Vegas, give me a call.

  92. I found what looks like an alligator head 1 a ridge rock 2 a bridge rock 3 metal detected and dug the area and of course found nothing.

  93. Chris,
    You are not the first person to believe that that TC is in that stretch of the Madison that F describes in TFTW and many have searched that segment of the river. As yet, no one has put together a COMPLETE solve that gets you to a precise spot in that area.

    From what I’m reading, it sounds like your entire solve revolves around that one line in the poem (NFBTFTW) and the TFTW book.

    Can you provide a more precise set of reasons why it would be there using just the poem or, at the very least, many more lines/clues from the poem?

    If you’re just playing a hunch…..well, I believe F said something to the effect that “that’s just expensive folly”…..paraphrasing.

  94. As I have gone in there
    and with my treasures bold,
    I can keep my secret where,
    And hint of riches new and old.

    This stanza speaks of the end of the hunt.

    Begin it where warm waters halt #1

    The waters in Yellowstone of course come from underground. They come up from many places along the Firehole river AND the Gibbon as well. The last hot spot from these two rivers is on the gibbon just before it merges with the Firehole river. Each of these hot spots is an individual flow of hot water. There are many WATERS. Beginning at Madison Junction is the Madison river. There are no more hot spots. Hence where the warm waters ( plural) halt. So begin it at Madison Junction.

    Take it in the canyon down, #2

    Madison Canyon

    Not far, but to far to walk,
    Put in below the home of Brown #3

    In the Preface we all know FF said he walked 10 river miles and for him now it is to far to walk. He put in at 7 mile bridge. Right at the end of the canyon. From there you have to walk to the home of Brown. Brown Trout. He is a fly fisherman. It seems reasonable.

    From there it’s no place for the meek

    If you are doing as FF did you will experience cold, deep spots and fast currents in some places. To some people it might be a little scary not knowing the river bottom or where the fastest currents are. It can be dangerous.

    The end is ever drawing nigh,

    Just means that with each step you are getting closer

    There’ll be no paddle up your creek. #4

    Well Yellowstone doesn’t allow paddle boats. They might next year as a bill has been introduced to allow it but up till now its not allowed.

    Just heavy loads and water high.

    FF towed a raft of sorts with his fishing equipment. Heavy load? I think so. Water high? It is almost certain in some spots. Thats why they talk about 5 mile hole and nine mile hole and others. The water gets deep fast. Also don’t forget that your heavy load is 42 pounds.

    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, #5

    There are several references to wise in his books. I will not talk about what they are. The possible blaze I discussed earlier and that is all I will say.

    Look quickly down , your quest to cease, #6

    Look down river

    But tarry scant with marvel gaze
    just take the chest and go in peace

    So why is it that I must go
    And leave my trove for all to seek
    The answer I already know
    I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak.

    So hear me all and listen good,
    Your effort will be worth the cold. #7-8

    There is more than one clue here but I can only speak of one. The long walk through the water to find the blaze you will be very cold. Wear your long johns even in summer. Listen good means he wants you to catch the second clue here. Sorry I cannot talk about it.

    If you are brave and in the wood, #9

    There are 2 ways to interpret this. One you are in the woods the other the chest is associated with wood. They may both be correct.

    I give you title to the gold.

    Meaning he has not given up title. In court he would argue that just because he left it somewhere doesn’t mean he abandoned it. He states VERY clearly he gives you TITLE. You cannot give title to something that you have abandoned. However a dead man cannot give title either UNLESS it is in a legal document that he does so AND in his possession, home, on his property, in a safe deposit box ect.

    • FF said no one has solved the poem past the first 2 clues and also that searchers have been within 500′. Your solve seems to require searchers figure out at least 4 clues to come w/in 500′.

  95. My name is Chris and I am a partner at a public auction in Daytona Beach Florida. I am in charge of research, photography, internet advertising and smalls ( all merchandise that is not furniture) Considering that I do research for a living and I work with antiquities and art like FF did and probably still does, and that there is a man in this town that used to regularly sell art to FF and we talk regularly about who FF is and how he thinks, maybe I might have a little different outlook on things. Maybe. Am I correct in my writings above? Probably not. I write what I do here in hopes that people will show me my errors. Then I can reevaluate. So I ask everyone. Is there something in my above writings that can be proven incorrect. If so tell me.Thanks.

  96. 20 summers between Fennhaven Motor Lodge and The Dude Motel. His last 10 river mile walk of the Madison that, while standing in the river, came within 3/4 of a mile of both Fennhaven and the Dude Motel makes me believe that this is a central point. As FF said ” it’s where my heart is” in Ramblings and Rumblings. It is my OPINION that FF’s secret is between the Dude, relevant to the Madison, and Bakers Hole. I would very much like someone to prove me wrong so that I can again reevaluate. I have decided on MANY solutions that to date have all been proven wrong. As a result the search area keeps getting smaller. Tell me where I am wrong. Not in thought but with FF’s own words and statements. Thanks

    Chris Clark
    386-451-1248
    8am -4pm m-f ONLY

  97. HollyfromMN PLEASE do NOT contact me. We are to far apart. I work 70 hrs pr week. I don’t have time for your solution that in reality would require FF to be a non honest person. I have no faith in your solution. I am ONLY asking for those that have truly viable solutions that contradict mine to contact me. I would prefer an email first.

  98. Chris:

    Bigskip here;

    Reading all very quietly. Glad to hear you too believe the poem is “straight forward” I have commented previously on the reasons and think you are on the right track. Keep going. Good luck

    • I need you and others to tell me why I am wrong. Is there anything that you can pinpoint that proves me wrong? Anything?

      • Chris,
        There’s only one person who can prove you’re wrong and/or tell you why you’re wrong, and I don’t recommend holding your breath waiting for him to chime in. In Forrest’s own words, here are the statements I believe are most important for any searcher (bracketing asterisks added for emphasis):

        Dear Mr. Fenn,
        We are a group of avid elderly bridge players in San Diego who after reading your book hope to find your treasure.  We are not into poetry as much as the memoir.  We realize the clues are in the poem, but were wondering if there isn’t at least one clue in each chapter.
        Thank you for a great book
        Sincerely,
        Emily
        Forrest’s succinct response:
        “Emily,
        [***>] All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. [<***] The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f"
        Pasted from

        Dear Mr. Fenn,
        You say the clues in the poem are to be followed in consecutive order.  You have also said the book holds sublte hints.  Are these ‘subtle hints’ in consecutive order (in relation to how they help with clues in the poem) too? ~ Thank you, joseph
        “That’s right joseph, you should start with the first clue and follow the others consecutively to the treasure. Hints in the book are not that organized.f”
        Pasted from

        Forrest interview with Lorene Mills (Air dates: May 13-16, 2011): http://www.reportfromsantafe.com/episodes/view/144/forrest-fenn/
        At ~27:00 minute mark, Forrest said: “There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order….”
        Consecutive: a) following one another in uninterrupted succession or order; successive, and, [***>] b) marked by logical sequence [<***]. IMO, logic includes consideration/application of verb tense.

        "Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f"
        Pasted from

        IMO, Forrest’s strengths are imagination, creativity, and mastery of written communications. The searcher who most closely emulates Forrest’s abilities to Look and to See, as a child and adult, will be the one to place the treasure chest in his/her backpack and secret it out.

        Good luck in your search.
        Joe

  99. Every time I have come up with a solve I have been proven wrong. I am not sure why but something is different this time. Someone tell me why I am wrong.

  100. The first thought that comes to mind is that I do not believe that FF would consider it safe for a 5 year old to walk into the Madison River. I understand your connection to the area, but I do not think that FF would have the winning solve include walking in the river. I believe also that his connection Fennhaven is stronger than to the Dude. If you are thinking in the woods between Fennhaven and the Madison, that would viable. I have considered that area myself, but could not find a blaze that would pinpoint the location. I have one other thing that may help you in this area. That is it MAY help, I don’t know. Is there a way to send a PM on this board?

    • It is my recollection that FF stated that a child could get there safely with help. Remember FF didn’t put it there during his fishing trip. In his trip to deposit the treasure he drove, parked , walked, deposited half walked back to his car, got the other half and walked back, deposited it and then went back to his car. The river trip in the preface is for us. Not how HE deposited the treasure. His Preface in TFTW stated that he walked the river. The poem goes this way as well in my opinion. But he has often stated that he drove and parked and walked. He is very familiar with the area. 20 summers there. He parked close and walked directly to the site. His fishing trip is meant to tell us the path he would like us to take, but he has told us otherwise about the path he DID take when depositing the treasure. The walk in the Madison is the most desirable way to get there because of the beauty of the trip. However at 80 he wasn’t capable of that same river walking trip. So he drove, walked, crossed the river and so on. Now the blaze has to be seen while IN the river. There are no shortcuts to the blaze. However FF is correct when he says that it is not dangerous for a child to go there, to the treasure. FF never stated it wouldn’t be dangerous to take a child on the quest for the blaze. He just doesn’t tell you, on purpose, that that statement only qualifies if you go the way HE went when he left the treasure. If you follow the poem I don’t believe it is safe for a child either. FF doesn’t make a distinction between the two for us though. Does he. That is a distinction that only we can make. Remember he wasn’t trying to make this easy. But if you think like him it becomes easier. Knowing that NOTHING is as straight forward as we would all like is important.

      There are three parking places. I do not yet know which is correct HOWEVER I believe the biggest hint comes from Ramblings and Rumblings. Why else quote it? Every year when they came back all of their gear was there. Why else make a quote from a book that has never been published? Drive a half mile into the woods drop off your camping and fishing equipment and everytime they came back it was always there. The quote has meaning to the search. If it has no meaning why make sure the media reports it???

  101. Chris, I find your solve interesting and well thought out. However, I agree with Wind City, Forrest did mention that a child could go and pick it up? Also, I still am not understanding your solve of “in the wood”

    • As far as a child could pick it up. He did say “with help” somewhere. I cannot find it right now but he was quoted as saying “with help”. That help would not be to walk the river but to walk ACROSS the river from FF parking spot. He is taking us on one path, down the river, while he drove there and crossed the river. He didn’t walk 10 river miles with 42 pounds. He knows the place and wants us to see the river and the area as he would love to be able to see it again. But he cannot the way he wants to. That doesnt rule out a shortcut by driving there. There are many paths to a place. He is telling us two different paths. The path he want’s us to take that he DID take on his fishing trip and the path he took to put it there.

  102. I am not going to tell you that at this time I fully have a firm total guaranteed understanding of ” in the wood” . I will say when he wrote ” waters halt” I noticed it was plural. Wood is singular. Is it singular simply for rhyming or for the proper clue. Truth I do not know. I believe we will find that out on site.

  103. In the wood could have many meanings. If we consider that the box is wet but not underwater then it could be in an area with a low water table under a fallen tree. Then again it could be in a hollowed out part of a tree that is still standing but then why would it be wet all the time. I may be wrong but when FF stated that the box is wet I just dont believe he was referring to a rainy day or covered in snow. The time in between recording the interview and its release could make the statement untrue at the moment of release of the statement. I believe the box is wet all the time. Suggesting a low water table. That part of the Madison doesn’t have springs that I am aware of at this time. If it is very near the river however it would have a low water table. A small depression in the ground covered by a fallen tree would make the box wet and in the wood. Am I correct? You tell me and we will both know. It’s just my thoughts.

  104. Find a reason why I cannot be correct and we will all get closer to the correct solve. Proving me wrong helps us all. It eliminates incorrect ideas therefore driving us closer to the only real possibilities.

  105. I will be away for several days but I will be back. Likely late in the week. Meantime find out where I am wrong. Please.

    • Chris-
      I am not saying you are wrong. I have no idea who is right, other than Fenn. But I will tell you that there is nothing “original” in your solution. The area you are talking about has been a popular search area since TTOTC was printed. The first search I can remember happened there. The last 25 searches of someone very close to me were in that area. Whenever I am out there I see many folks wandering around in that area apparently looking for Forrest’s treasure. My last adventure story was from that area.

      The area you wish it to be within was given a huge lift when TFTW was published. Thousands of folks look there every year. Many go back year after year. Some folks have gone nearly crazy looking in that area for a blaze and in the end making one up that has little value.

      But my question to you is why are you posting here and challenging everyone. If you feel solidly that it’s in that area you should go out and get it…and not be so overbearing on the blog..
      Go fetch!!

      By the way..when Forrest said his heart was “there” in Rumblings and Ramblings..he was talking about all of YNP. He did not mention a particular place.

      • Sorry Dal I didn’t mean to be overbearing. I like challenges like this. I actually want people to show me where I am wrong so that I can reevaluate. I know it sounds funny but every scenario I go through even though they have all been wrong so far I believe I have learned new things that are helping me to get to the correct solve. I am not trying to say that nobody can prove me wrong rather I want them to prove me wrong. Being wrong teaches me. It’s a good thing. I learn more by sharing and asking peoples opinions. To think that I have read and listened to everything FF ever said would be foolish of me. I guess I am just a little to forceful. I Apologize.

        As far as going I am saving up the money right now. If I had all of the money now I would go now but I won’t have enough till April. From now till then I am trying to learn all that I can.

  106. Chris,
    Good work! I remember Fenn mentioning to review My War For Me from one of his books. Could you identify which part of your solution speaks to that chapter? Could you also discuss the usage of a flash light in your solution? Thank you, Rose

    • Holly,
      What I can’t understand is why you’re so adamant about fenn’s statements. You use the thought of the Rockies in an area of Texas, Yet fenn eliminated Texas as not where the chest lays in wait. You use 5000′ to 12000′ where the chest is from a lake as ground level measurements, Yet fenn stated 5000′ to 10200′ in elevation. You have an area South of SF NM. Yet fenn has stated North of SF. You use said fenn didn’t say SF “NM”. when you have been shown he said exactly that. You use Andrew’s Cipher theory and say he is correct, Yet fenn has stated no ciphers or codes will assist in finding the chest.

      What is it about the Author of the book and poem statements that bring you to a conclusion you are correct and he [ fenn ] is wrong?

      • Ok, I hear you. But everything fits so perfectly, including the coordinants.

        I read that comment by Fenn about Texas. It doesn’t say not in Texas. These are three separate statements that maybe aren’t related:

        “The treasure is hidden north of Santa Fe. Texas is south. Please don’t dig up my parent’s graves. f”

        The Rockies go down through Texas, geologically speaking.

        My opinion after running power plant and using only the action verbs in the poem is that there is a cyphe R In the poem. Complaining we don’t have the key means little. I found “innocents, as innocents go”, get taken advantage of and “Katherine cried”. Also take the power producer down… There is a cipher, and Andy’s decipher is correct except he missed the letters PC which added to ON is Pecan. Buy Andy’s book, the next word is the name of the street to take instead of following the creek. A DECIPHER will assist in the finding. It only makes sense, Forrest rode around with a General and was at war.

        Santa Fe NM is a yes. It is part of Santa Fe the territory. But the treasure is below that specific Santa Fe the geographical area of NM, and is 8 or so miles up from the wishy washy border of Santa Fe the territory. I used to think we we’re talking about Santa Fe, TX, but when Forrest said that, I spent more time looking up Santa Fe.

        For those of you interested in “MW”, the Ram Rock golf course (or is Google wrong and this is the Apple rock?) in this area is a giant M, and the streets around form a giant W. The driving range is there. A square ruins is there- the structure has been removed.

        If you find the treasure, keep the location of your find quiet. Wouldn’t it be cool to have the treasure hunt and correct solve in a movie?

        • Holly Darlin Holly –

          Give it up ! You are (as Seeker explained above) dead ass wrong.

          To continue on with this is calling Forrest a liar – and he is not. The more you talk – the deeper the hole you are digging. Stop !

          I know it’s hard to pick another spot – but you must. Do it now………..

        • “Ok, I hear you. But everything fits so perfectly, including the coordinants.”

          Ok, So the outcome here is, you simply ignore what Fenn has stated… force fit what you want to work, and came up with a solution that you wrote a book on, and wanted to self publish.

          Here’s a couple more quote from FF… to ignore if you wish;

          “The person that finds it, is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.” 

          “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

          IMO, I’m certain you’re of the beaten path.

        • Holly,

          I wish you luck, I would love to see that movie. I am just glad you are not looking in my search area which I have narrowed down to the Rocky Mountains somewhere 8.25 miles north of the present day city limits of Santa Fe, NM in the states of NM, CO, WY, MT…

        • Giant “M’s” and “W’s”? They already made that movie…..It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World.

          I guess the difference is I don’t envision a “mad-cap” road chase to Texas based on your solve.

          • I looked up It’s a Mad Mad World – hmm the ending is not so “financially” rewarding. The money spilled out to passersby and the seekers ended up in the jail hospital. Rat Race appears to have a similar plot, but again hmmm the ending is not so “financially” rewarding. The money ends up donated. The real entertainment was the casino owner viewing the race on monitors and high rollers placing bets on who would get to the loot first. I imagine if the hoB was given, the chase would lead to a similar ending 🙂

  107. Chris,
    Per your request here are some things I think you should consider.

    Your main central premise seems to focus on Fenns 10 mile trip to Bakers hole. This story was in TFTW not TTOTC. Had you not had that book/story would you have still come up with the same conclusion using just TTOTC and poem?
    Yes, F said there could be a few subtle hints in in both books but a complete story is much more than a subtle hint. A story that echo’s the title of the book is about a subtle as a slap in the face. Did you read this story and build the solution around it (in both directions) or did you figure out WWWH first (Madison Junction) and build the solution in sequence as Forrest has suggested? I assume you realize he has said the first clue it the most important and you can’t start in the middle (e.g TFTW)?

    “No 49, I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues. To me that’s just expensive folly. f”

    You use the 10 mile walk to match up with the NPFTM clue but then you say that there’s no need to travel the 10 mile coarse as a child could just be helped across the river. Sure, lots of people believe there is a short cut to the chest that doesn’t require you to travel the described route but he’s warned us about that.

    MW, Question posted 6/20/2014:
    I have a question for Mr. Fenn:
    When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area?
    Thank you Curtis
    “The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.f”

    You are very focused on the 7 mile hole…a notable fishing spot. This isn’t the only notable fishing hole on the Madison; there are dozens so why is this the HOB? What about the 9 mile hole? Does 7 mile really rise to that level above all others or is it the only one the “fits” well into your solution? Did you pick that after deciding on the “correct” solution? Many searchers fall into the trap of jumping to a solution and then justifying why other pieces of information support the forgone conclusion. It happens to all of us….it’s called confirmation bias. You have to be super critical of your own thinking or you’ll end up like Holly… seriously deluded IMO!

    You seem to think that the chest being wet is important. Consider what F said:
    “Santa Fe New Mexican Sat, May 16 2015

    http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/many-claim-they-ve-solved-forrest-fenn-riddle-but-treasure/article_3605fc91-a501-5764-b47e-5bf2efdab234.html

    Quote from F:
    And avid searchers detail his every word. In one recent video interview, Fenn described the treasure as being “wet” and many assumed it was hidden in a river or waterfall, and that was new information.
    It wasn’t.
    “How can anything be in the Rocky Mountains and not be wet,” he said. “Even if it were buried six feet deep, it would still be wet. That’s not a real clue.””

    As Dal mentioned and I mentioned earlier, this is not an original solve. It’s popular because it “seems” to fit and, in fact, it fits much better than a lot of the stuff that people throw out on the blog but the devil is in the details. That’s where this one falls apart IMO.

    Ultimately the proof is in the finding. If you feel strongly go look some more.

  108. I still am under the belief that the “clues” we all think are clues are there to mislead and the real clues are hidden within the poem. I also do not believe the real clues point to locations that can change over time but once ALL the clues are discovered they point to a specific location. Forrest mentioned that he thought of everything when selecting a location. With that being said, I am sure he thought about would this tree still be here or this creek or river or whatever else. He would have no way of knowing that for the next 100 or 1,000 years. I am still pretty certain that it is not in a heavy tourist location such as Yellowstone unless it is buried. If he put it in a heavy tourist location how could he know for certain that it wouldn’t be stumbled upon by a fisherman, hiker or anyone else. I think it is either buried, a very remote location, or a location controlled by Forrest. With that being said, I sure hope Forrest has some security at his house. I found a site that has a solve all revolving around Forrest’s house. I can’t even imagine how many people might show up at his house wanting to dig up his yard or look through his underwear drawer.

    • gregorious,

      Why, as you stated; “I still am under the belief that the “clues” we all think are clues are there to mislead…” would fenn deliberately mislead anyone?

      The poem seems to be working well all on it own, being difficult, without any intentional misleading. As far as a heavily traveled tourist location such as YNP, I can see a well hidden object 10″x10″ being safe for many years. There is a excavation going on at the present in the park of a habitation of ancient, that was only known of in the last decade or so, yet has been there for 100’s of years. I personally wouldn’t dismiss or underestimate fenn knowledge of a place he spent most his life at.

      In the book[s] we have been told of only a small collection of the time he spent there, and for that matter, all the places he has told to us he has gone to. If that were the case we [ the readers ] should eliminate NM and WY with this same line of thinking. That would surly boost CO tourism, if not double it…. Your welcome CO.

      Is the poem not supposed to take us to the chest? To play a hunch that it can’t be somewhere we ‘think” it can’t or shouldn’t be, may actually lead you away from the correct location.

      Just a thought.

      • I agree, Seeker. IMO the clues are there and there is no misleading involved. IMO the clues/poem leads to one place and to one spot in particular.

  109. Colokid:

    Good summary and I agree with some of it. Did want to suggest a correction. You included an MW question posted on 6/20/14 if FF followed the poem directions to get to the TC hiding place. FF answered, “the clues should be followed in order, Curtis. There is no other way”. I believe FF didn’t answer that question. He again reminded us to start with and use the poem. As I have suggested many times, it’s my opinion he took the short cut.
    Thanks

    • “the clues should be followed in order, Curtis. There is no other way”. ff answered this way but it doesn’t necessarily mean that the clues are in order listed in the poem!!!!

      yes they have to be “followed” in order but may not be listed in order. they can be randomly placed

      IMHO

      Is anyone else understanding this?

      James (TZP)

      • James,

        You and I are on the same page, and I tried to preach this a while back. Fenn also mentioned the clues where contiguous. Contiguous and “in order”, or consecutive, are not the same.

        Scott W

    • The clues are not ‘numbered.’ Words in the lines however, should be followed in the order they are given.

      Could be another way to look at it as far as I can see.

  110. Let’s review my solve. I have a solve that matches, you have Fenn being asked questions. He’s going to want to be careful when he talks otherwise he can cause a flurry. He probably thinks of himself as the giant hand from the sky, moving people around in chess game style.

    So, Too Far to Walk. A huge occurrence in his life. Fenn gets kicked,out of Texas A and M and of course manages to make the unpleasant into a prosper.

    So what do I have in my solve?

    I have a giant MW, the golf course area and streets surrounding the driving range.

    I have a Brown, who used to own a Coca-Cola ranch there. I have an old foundation. Does it look like a ledge up close? The water was rerouted there to make a nice little pond w a sprinkler, which I’ve seen up close. Did the rerouting of the water affect the square ruins I see? I didn’t see the square ruins when I was there. Somebody get there to see. Or maybe the structure couldn’t stay there bc of the driving range. The square ruins are off the end of a driving range, in the wood. Be brave, I’m the wood.

    I have coordinants that match to Fenn’ Pilot Training video. Of course the longitude still is my guess…

    I have Andy Briggs’ decipher, and the route explained in there is an exact match to Horseshoe Bay, TX. Also, Andy provides the street to take to the driving range. Also Andy mentions “on green.”

    I have double eagles and on green and links. Golf terms.

    I have dry creek = no paddle.

    I have heavy loads and water high = water treatment plant at the end of Dry Creek.

    I have tarry scant and marvel gaze = Terry Scott and Marble guys, said in Texan drawl. Scott and White clinic. Marble Falls. Dr. Terry recently passed away.

    Now hear me all and listen good? I don’t have that. Telephone wire? Church?

    I have Lake LBJ down the side of Fenn’s poem. In fact, I think it is AIN’T LBJ. Which is how LBJ talked: “Ain’t”. And. The lake was Granite Shoals before it was LBJ.

    There’s a car w people near it at the commission ing of the Weir Dam. Looks like the bullet? Those 40’s cars should be east to tell apart, but not for me I guess.

    What else am I forgetting…

    • I think might be forgetting that he said in TFTW “Forrest Fenn’s hidden treasure is somewhere to be found within the highlighted region of the Rocky Mountains on this map” and your solve has the treasure outside of the highlighted region on that map…

    • Holly I’m starting to agree with inthechaseto that you are calling Fenn a liar; you’re ignoring what he, and everyone here, has said. Instead of saying he is not telling the truth or coming up with anything close to a rational explanation for your ideas you just keep pushing your solution.

      You are simply wrong on your points. Santa Fe territory did not exist after New Mexico became a state. He clearly stated it is Santa Fe New Mexico he is talking about. By no one’s stretch of imagination can the Rocky Mountains extend into your search area, you are simply wrong geologically.

      You wanted someone to show you where he said it is not in Texas; I did that, he has point blank stated it is not in Texas. You choose to ignore this and still push your solution. I’m running out of patience.

      • Me too Goofy, me too. 🙁 I don’t care if Holly wants to believe the treasure is in TX but constantly pushing her solve after being shown by many how off it is in so many ways, is getting tiresome. 🙁

      • 🙂

        Holly – there is just one other thing – since your solve is not on FF’s map – after it is found in “your spot” how is he going to explain that?

      • Uh oh, Goofy’s nuke finger is quivering! 🙂
        Holly, your confidence is so strong in your solve, to continue preaching it makes it appear you are totally disregarding what F said were the perimeters of the Chase.
        Fenn is brilliant! He composed the poem to fit just about any place, it’s an amazing feature that has thrown the best of us off our solves.
        This solve of yours is your “flower”, and I have no right to call it a “weed”….but…
        (On bent knees, Banging head in floor repeatedy), use the poems correct perimeters and the guidelines Fenn has posted.
        ☆ NOT TX.
        ☆ IN ROCKY MTS…NOT FOOTHILLS IN TX!
        ☆ N. OF SANTA FE NEW MEXICO, 2010.
        ☆ IN MT OR WY OR CO OR NM…AGAIN “IT’S NOT IN TX…”F
        ☆ THE CHEST IS HIDDEN BETWEEN 5,000 FT ELEVATION TO 10,200…(Websters dictionary says ELEVATION means up/down, NOT distance!)

        I would highly suggest reading TOTC and TFTW (It has a treasure map of search area, and TX IS NOT THERE!!!)
        I have a headache, I’m done.
        ~Donna~

        • Donna,

          Beating a dead horse. But I need to ask you a question. “N. OF SANTA FE NEW MEXICO, 2010.”

          Is it your thought that 2010 is important to understanding SF NM or just saying what we know of as the release date of the book?

          Just curious? Thanks…

    • Sorry Holly,
      What you actually have is a whole lot of nothing. No one here’s buying it and you shouldn’t be trying to sell it. Time to go back to the drawing board.

  111. BigSkip,

    I agree that you could interpret it that way (that he’s not answering the question) but I think that comes with a big assumption. It presumes a physically closer access point then following all the clues in order which strikes me as wishful thinking. I don’t really want to open that can of worms since this has been endlessly debated but…..

    In my mind that approach to setting a hunt kind of defeats the purpose of having provided a bunch of other clues which he tells us are “places”. IMO Fenn is all about the journey of getting you out there in the woods. So I would ask; why provide a trail of bread crumbs for us to follow if it just loops back by a parking lot down the road somewhere? I think he want’s us walking straight out into the woods. I just don’t think he intended for us to solve a bunch of clues and then drive to some spot near the end. I would be disappointed if it turned out that way.

  112. Holly,
    I am not sure if you already answered this, I couldn’t find an answer in the forum, Forrest stated that the treasure was hidden somewhere on the map printed in his latest book. Your solve is in Texas, which is not shown on that map. How do you justify this? Thanks for responding.

  113. Holly,
    One more thing I forgot to mention. You are correct in mentioning that the Rockies do run into Texas and down into Mexico. However, the Rockies are not near where your solve leads you. The Rockies in Texas are between El Paso and Odessa.

    • Gregor,

      I would like to see a reference that indicated the RM’s run further south than New Mexico and more specifically south of Santa Fe.

      Sure, there are mountains, but I don’t believe they are considered the RM’s.

      Can anyone produce that reference?

      • On the map I have, the rocky mountains run all the way down to, marfa texas.It’s a nat geo map

  114. Colokid,
    I made that statement and now I cannot find anything to back it up…LOL. I “thought” I watched a recent National Geographic video that stated the Rockies went into Mexico. I was doing something else and heard Rockies and it caught my attention. Obviously, I was wrong because everything I have Googled says the Rockies stop in New Mexico.

  115. Colokid, just Google Rocky mountains Texas.

    Gregorious, Look up “Never before published Fenn map” and go to the True West link. The bottom right corner is central Texas. It’s under or near the Illuminati like symbol. The map has since been reduced in size. The play is in the word highlighted. It’s in the shadow. The shadow Knows.

    And, elevation maps show the Texas Hill area to be consistent with the Rockies, with the plateaus, the hills, then the plains. Google tallest mountain outside of the Rockies and you will see there is a conflict over which is tallest, and where the Rockies end.

    • So Holly are you saying the map Fenn published in Too Far Too Walk does not show where the chest is located?

      • Holly,
        I am think you are suppossed to be able to get to the location using the map printed in the book TFTW… Particularly using the highlighted regions…

    • Holly, Just put IMO in front of your comments and you will be just fine. Something Desertphile forgot to do when he stated that as of Thursday Oct. 22 that the treasure has not been found. Where did that info come from.

  116. Yes, Goofy. I’ve sent communications things to the publishers and had important things cut off. Havent you? Try Googling “never before published Fenn map” go to the True West Magazine link, and look at that map. What’s the difference? Also, some on FB claim their map in their book is different from others’ map. I asked, what? Whoa.

    • No gregorious, if that were true there wouldn’t be any solutions published here. 🙂 What gets folks in trouble is when they say Fenn is lying to us. If someone thinks Fenn is lying there is no need to be here and are wasting our time.

      Holly thinks the map published in Too Far To Walk does not show where the chest is and Fenn is lying to us.

    • Greg-
      If you take the time to read the solutions placed on this blog you will see that there are many…including Holly’s which I certainly do not prescribe to others. So the answer to your question is “no”.

      However, folks will be placed on moderation or booted for calling the chase a hoax, for calling Fenn a liar for being pointlessly argumentative and generally not being a good neighbor.

      If folks have a hard time with those rules there are plenty of other blogs out there and perhaps a different one is better suited to their lifestyle.

      Here, we try to be civil and act like community. We strive to support one another and not be abusive but give constructive criticism. We also work hard to try not to lead new folks astray of what Forrest has actually said…and what he is often purported to have said..
      That is…we try to make the line between fact and opinion as clear as possible.
      In this way, I believe we make a positive contribution to folks looking for the chest.
      To do otherwise would be a disservice to new searchers and kids.
      In the end, it is my blog..I make the rules.

      Goofy and I typically agree on who gets moderated because we both believe in helping others have fun in the chase…not hindering.

      So if you have questions about how the blog is operated you can direct them to me or goofy..my email is on the right side near the top. This thread is about the nine clues not the blog rules…

    • YES -Because i have posted a few to Colokid who seems to think everyone solve is incorrect.

      they have their favorites , the rest they ex Like this one.

  117. Well Goofy this is your forum so you can definitely do whatever you want. I don’t agree with the fact of banning one person because their solve questions Forrest’s poem or Forrest’s statements and not everyone else is a little unfair. I have read numerous people who have stated ideas against what Forrest has plainly said and I haven’t seen any of them get banned. For instance, Forrest said you don’t need a cipher yet people say you do. So is Forrest lying? Forrest said that it isn’t anywhere an 80 year old couldn’t go. Yet, people are posting solves where you are scaling mountains or wading in rivers or hiking miles. So is Forrest lying? Of course Forrest isn’t lying. People are interpreting clues and quotes however they see fit. Forrest said all you need is the poem, yet I think almost ever person in this forum is using other things. So are we all calling Forrest a liar?

    • greg the things you mentioned are interpretations of what Fenn has said; and there are many of those here. There has been much discussion on what is or what is not a cipher. Where can an eighty year old not go? That depends on the eighty year old we are talking about. He said we only need the poem, he also said to read the book, he also states in the poem he is going to give hints. Lots of room there for different interpretations and opinions.

      Actually there are very few things he has said that we can take as solid facts.

      He told us the chest is located on the map in TFTW. If someone wants to think the chest is in Utah under an outhouse that is in a cemetery or in any other place not on the map they are free to do so, but they are calling Fenn a liar and wasting our time.

      • Goofy and Dal, I do respect your blog and I really am not trying to cause any ruckus. Some things people say don’t make sense. If you want a fire to go out , don’t feed it. It takes two to quarrel. There is nobody on here that is going to waste my time.

    • I see your point, Gregor, and it’s a good one. Just because Fenn said something it doesn’t mean there can’t be more than one interpretation to what he said. That’s not the same as calling him a liar. I would go so far as to say there is at least one thing in Goofy’s response to you which I would call an interpretation and an incorrect one at that, IMO. Sorry, Goof.

      • Let me guess Spoon. Is it cemetery vs. grave yard??

        Do you think the chest is not located on the map in TFTW?

        • Well Spoon, the wording on the map states that “the treasure is somewhere to be found within the highlighted region” so it must be in there somewhere… 🙂

    • Greg,

      The purpose of the blog is to share ideas that may lead us to the chest. When an one contradicts the author of the book, we must take the side of the author. If we choose oppositely then the author’s word is no longer to be taken as fact, and thus discounts the validity of the poem.

      I tend to lean toward the side of the author, since it is his poem I am following toward the chest.

      We are fortunate enough to be chasing and seeking a treasure hidden by someone who is still alive to answer questions.

      How can you not believe what he says and writes in relation to the chase? It’s that simple.

      Scott W

    • Greg I found your reply extremely respectful and articulate. I agree with you that questioning statements might be important to the solution. I’m disappointed to not hear more of how she interpreted things.

  118. In the beginning, during one of Margie’s interviews, when asked, Forrest said he would not know if the chest is found.
    Nowadays he said he knows but it’s too much of a clue.

    Rhetorical question: Is one of his statements not true?

    • There has been much discussion about that Liviu. He has actually said several different versions of that statement over the years. So does he or don’t he. I have no idea.

      Do you think the chest is not located on the map in TFTW?

    • Technology has changed some in the last four years with extended battery life, solar, etc. It is highly likely that there is a camera with some data uplink on the spot. Both statements are true if the chest was never hidden.

  119. I now think the 9 clues point to NM. My reasons are debatable with other Fennsters, so I won’t go into details of MY solve.
    It’s taken me 4 yrs to figure out NM, and find the key word leading me to it.
    I will tell you two things that helped me…having friends that are of one mind with me, and read every fact you can find about all four states!
    Have fun!

  120. Regarding the Blog:

    The line has been drawn. The rules are set. Fair and reasonable. Let’s all understand them and work with them. If you can’t, simply leave. Some participants just don’t get it…….In My Opinion.

    • Hi Skippy, I’ll have to reread this thread again. I like this blog, so many good posts here to help with my understanding. When will you be searching again?

  121. I pondered that ‘It would be too big of a clue’ for forrest to tell us, why he would know. It keeps me up at night till sunrise sometimes.
    I thought that the treasure would of been found by now! There is still hope for me after all.
    Forrest is Laughing at us or shaking his head! Lol

    Lou Lee, Chased by Bears in Jellystone park and lived to tell the tale.

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