The Nine Clues…….Part Fiftyeight


This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

727 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…….Part Fiftyeight

    Forrest will be signing Gaspard books at Nedra Matteucci’s gallery on Saturday, November 14, from 2:00 to 4;00. If someone wants to bring any of his other books by for a signature, Forrest wrote that he will be happy to accommodate them. The gallery address is 1075 Paseo de Peralta in Santa Fe.

    • Quick question “on topic” had he said that the treasure is accessible year-round, albeit without any sincere concern or caution in reaching said destination maybe due to inclamint weather or hazardous conditions?

    • I just drove through Santa Fe at midnight last night. Well, it is going to be a squeeze but I think I will make it. Wait for me – it takes about 2.5 hours more with traffic. Please wait. Thanks very much.

  2. Subscribe interesting word, to scribe under? Sounds like how writing was taught 1000’s of years ago. By an example above and the student would copy under the example, or “under scribe”. So I guess sub-scribe is a take off off that,,,,to follow. Ok, I like that, count me in. Thanks Dal for managing the beast, the bloggersorous.

    • The etymology of “subscribe” is a little different than that. It’s Latin and has to do with signing one’s name at the bottom of a document and thereby “agreeing” with the document by subscribing one’s name, still all legal today. Later it also morphs into meaning to become a regular buyer, like in a magazine subscription.

  3. I really wish I could be there to pick up a signed copy of that stunning book. I also have an unsigned fourth printing of TTOTC and an unsigned copy of Seventeen Dollars a Square Inch…which I hoped would be signed. 🙁 Hopefully I can get them signed sometime soon…perhaps during the slow season this winter.

  4. I think the question about what is a clue to anybody looking for the treasure is missing. Is a clue something physical, or not? Some may say it has to be a geological feature of some kind; others may comment that a clue does not have to be a tangible item, but an idea of some kind. I think if we can grasp the idea of what a clue is to Mr Fenn, we can better understand how to go about solving the first clue in the poem. Being that WWWH is the most important clue in the poem, what is it about this clue we don’t understand, and how come we have not discovered what this clue means? I used to think WWWH was a body of water, like a hotspring, but now I do not think that anymore. I think the answer is in front of us, and it is looking right in our faces, but we do not want to look any farther than we think we need to. It is my opinion that whoever looks at the poem with no interest in finding anything will find what the rest of us cannot see. All this is my opinion.RC.

    • RC-
      About two years ago Forrest told us exactly what he means by clue and what he means by hint. Try looking it up on this blog…and along the way you may find other ideas that will help you in the chase…

    • RC –

      I think your questions are good ones and you might be on the right path……

      I just wanted to rethink what you said about WWWH being the most important clue. I don’t know if that is true.

      Here is the statement that you are surmising that from…..

      One thing Fenn will say is that most people are missing the most important clue; “begin it where warm waters halt”. When you solved this clue, he shared, and the others will fall into place. “If you don’t know ‘where warm water halts,’ Fenn said, “you don’t have anything.” It’s not much, but it’s a start.

      I think the writer of this was pretty good in the placement of her quotes……….. Let’s look at what he really said…

      “begin it where warm waters halt: “If you don’t know ‘wwwh’ you don’t have anything.” f

      So, she (the writer) is the one who added the most important clue. You see – I don’t think WWWH is the most important clue. It certainly is a clue and one that will move you closer to the chest. IMO

      • Ya know something inthechase….I posted on the Nine clues blog before Dal closed it down….and have always thought that WWWH is the “edge of civilization”….or something that is civilization related….

        I say this because of many things associated to FF. He’s a wilderness guy and knows that WWWH is when he leaves somewhere. Shoot it could be a gas station for all we know…so we have to go SIMPLE…as F has always said….think like a child. They would tell you that you aren’t gonna have warm waters in the “wood”.

        This we now can extrapolate something….WWWH is not a natural place…..this you can now utilize FF’s mind and apply what he thinks to the poem.

        we know he drove to the location, so the map can include roads, which leads to distances….which then could lead to landmarks (blaze, HoB, creek, etc.

        The map is solvable….and like he said…it is difficult, but one needs to really try to get into FF’s thinking.

        “Why did he choose a certain place” should be asked, instead of guessing where a certain place exists?

        Maybe you can see my line of thinking, or not….but one needs to stay SIMPLE.

        Afterall, we all know that the best hiding place is in the open.

        “The poem will lead you to ‘Indulgence’.” – f. Pkay, he said chest, but I do like the name he gave the chest, so I consider them the same thing and inter-changeable.

        Thanks for letting me add to your thoughts.

        May the finder be lucky!


        • Hi Tim –

          You’ve been in this along time and most of what you said I agree with.

          There are a few things we differ with – but it really doesn’t matter.

          My father was born 6 yrs before Forrest and so I think I understand some of FF’s thinking as my Dad was a great guy and had one of the strongest work ethics I have ever seen. It was a different time when they grew up and all of that – even to include WW2 – I find to be important factor in deciphering the clues.

          Best wishes to you…………

          • Thanks inthe…..It is always good to hear other seekers have possibly concluded the same things you have….I actually could be doing something good……Anyhow, here are a few more thoughts….maybe they can help smothers……*smiles*….and it is/has been a fun trek, if I do say. I’ve even come to believe I have actually deciphered yet another clue, and in the “as a matter of fact” kind of way, as I’ve stated else where in these blogs….I think this one could be an important one. This gives not only a clear way to think of the path to take from where I think it begins or at a certain point in one’s progress, but it is one that I think would help many, many people with a better solve that they may be working on. I’ve just tapped the surface on it, but it seems to be a promising way to think about “how” and “where”, in connection to the way the phrase is used by F. in the poem. If it does me good….it will be fun!!

            Not to give up too many of my thoughts, but this new piece I’m working on, does make me change my thinking to be more so, and hopefully like F…..a “how to” think like F. and try to get into his deepest darkest secrets. That is what we all need to do. Why did he write the way he did? Where did he get his info, in order to write the way he does? To me the poem is a map. A simple map with plenty of directions, but without a starting point. How did he come up with a starting point? How did he decide of a location? Why did he choose the location? Granted, some of these questions have been answeted, but I can think of plenty more That have not been. IMHO – that is where you need to start at, in order to solve the puzzle. The answer is already in front of us, we just need to find the needle….or that skeleton key that unlocks F’s reasoning and imagination.

            Next time….maybe bringing a kid with you….or ask a kid what he thinks would help. The mind of a child is a wondurous sight to see in action….if you can stay simple and try to imagine with them at their level.

            Cheers and cherries!!

            Best of luck to you.


    • Second that!

      His exact word is warm, I use to think it might be tears, warm but hard to find an exact place for that event since the exact word already are used commonly in all 4 states in the fishing regs.

  5. A book signing sounds good, but in the best interest of keeping the boss (a.k.a. Babydoll/the wife happy, I think I will stick to the 25 year anniversary plans in Hawaii. Geometry and measurements will have to wait… 🙁 … 🙂 I will study the poem for more clues while away.

    • Slurbs, Hawaii for your anniversary is a definite treasure. We went a few years ago and did the cruise around the Islands and had a great time. Learned a lot about the beautiful country sides and its people. Very diverse history of the people and plants that make up the islands. Have a great trip.

  6. I’m sad I didn’t read this sooner. It could have been the excuse I needed to head up to the Rockies this weekend! Could be my last chance before the snow starts to stick…

    • This reminds me of the first 2 clues B.S., the 200′ problem, has anyone seen the blaze problem… Is this child psychology, semantics, mental illness? How in the HELL do you have a treasure hunt without the book being of value? Serious question

      • Mr. Fenn,

        You have said to read the poem and read TTOTC to help solve for the 9 clues. We all know there are many options to choose from regarding, Brown, hoB, wwh,and blaze hinted at in the book.

        My question is, “In the book, do you also, in a more subtle way, tell which is the correct answer to one or all of the above?” ~BW

        No I don’t madam, sorry. f



        What part bugs you so much? Honestly I don’t see anything that states the book is not of value… only That the subtle information in the book is just that… His answer seems actually simple, No I don’t tell which is the correct answer… But if you want to blame why you can understand it on mental illness or anything else, I guess that is your option.

        • Why am I ticked? Of all the meaningful questions he could have answered he chose this one which is absolutely nothing.

          Edited by Goofy…..consider yourself warned decall. Keep it clean.

          • Oh, My bad. I thought you had a “serious” question.

            Apparently you just Ticked because you don’t like the question / answer because it doesn’t help you. How disappointing fenn is not “aiding” you. Need a tissue?

          • I can be ticked off all I want. Ff says read and re-read but NOW there are no subtle answers??? Which is it?

          • WHa..whaatt? where do you see he said there are “no subtle answers”

            He say imo very clearly, he’s not telling you directly what those subtle hints are. The whole point to this challenge was for the readers to figure it all out… what did you expect, Fenn to hold your hand and lead you to the chest?!


          • Really Seeker, you have the wrong guy. I appreciate your responses, I’m just sounding off to fenn. If fenn is saying to focus on the poem he’s wasting my time. Saying there’s obvious hints instead of subtle hints… he picked the worst way to express it. Saying there’s no help at all to understand hoB is rediculous to me but possible. So why read it at all

          • You’re reading way too much into this answer. You see it has fenn stating there are no hints in the book… How you see that is beyond me.

            I haven’t seen a comment / statement of “Obvious” hint or ” No subtle answers” or ” there’s no help at all to understand hoB ” as you are stating. The problem isn’t the Q&A here, The problem is you seemingly can’t keep the information straight.

      • Forrest has said all along you do not need the book, only the poem. I think you may be mixing up some of his quotes.

        From the Cheat Sheet on this blog:

        Q: Are there subtle hints in the TTOTC book? “Yes, if you can recognize them.”
        ♦ “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search.”

        My interpretation of that second part is that in telling his stories in TTOTC the hints appeared. Not because he was intentionally trying to place hints, but because in the process of telling the story they just happened. I think we are more likely to recognize these hints after we find the solution rather than before because there are so many things that could be interpreted as hints throughout the book. Example: parts of the story are in Montana, Wyoming and New Mexico. Only one can be right if you were trying to use these as hints so which one is the actual hint? Only after the correct solution would we know.

    • Chad –

      A topo map is a good map. They can be found free online.

      You asked for an opinion – so here is mine……….

      I think if you have the first clue area – it is too early in your solve to be looking for a map. Take each step in order. You should be looking for HOB> all in my opinion.

    • @Chad re good map source: I’ve always liked the Metskers maps for my county here in NorCal, shows everything, including old common names of places, has townships and ranges and sections……but ff being a pilot and all, maybe an aeronautical chart of your search area…prob. some sort of combination of several maps so you can tell what is open to public and what is private…..IMO

    • Question posted 6/28/2014:
      “Is the map that needs to be used to discover where warm waters halt found online or in paper form? or both?” ~mdc777

      “C’mon now agent 777, a map is a map. The more detailed maps are most useful if you have the right map, but I’m not sure I needed to tell you that.f”


      I agree with inthechaseto, Topo maps would help, imo. the question is… what size?

      • Seeker –

        They come in sizes ? Mine only came in one size – from the Forestry – but – I think now they are putting them in book form. I wouldn’t like that – too small – so I would just take it to my handy dandy printer and blow it up.

        It’s kinda like the books I really like – I like them in paper so I can feel it.

      • lol… Let me rephrase. What size area. We can look at maps all day and for many moons to come. Yet, if we don’t have some kind of clue to the size of the “clue[s]” area… a globe would work as well as a county map.

        The map of the area the chest is know to be right at this moment covers four states, what size map do we need for the clues?

        • We know the region….”in the shared section” on the map….in the book…..

          The question is….if I may speculate a moment….could the shaded area be reduced even further, yet still stay in the meaning of the words “in the shaded areas”??

          We can. The “human shadow” shades the map as well.

          Good luck!

    • Not sure if this helps or not….but when I thought about this question, I ended up going to my local AAA Insurance, because I was a member….FREE MAPS!! WHEW-WHEW!!…

      Come to find out while I was there….FF was also a member. Coincidence? Chance? Could be…..

      But in the mind of whom I think is “keeping it simple” and “as a matter of fact”….why not I said….

      I rcvd five maps of various origins for Yellowstone and the surrounding areas.

      It was an interesting test.

      Good luck.

  7. What is this, Nine Clues part 58? How many more parts before the TC is found? 🙂

    I’ve always felt that at least some of the nine clues in the poem are waypoints on a map, actual physical locations, and some clues are descriptions of the location of the TC. I still can’t figure it all out yet though. 🙁

  8. I do not think Mr. Fenn has said this , and I will be the first one to say it. A map is not needed until you solve the poem. One can solve the clues without a map and it is much easier if you don’t use a map.If someone doubts what I am saying, and if it were me on the other side I would doubt me, you can ask Mr. Fenn if it is easier to solve the first clues without a map. For someone to be sure about where they are going they need to know where they are headed. Until the treasure is found this is my opinion, and opinion only. RC.

    • RC,
      I do agree that the poem should be ‘understood’, but not so much solved. It depends on how one see / reads the poem, for example… If looking for a step by step approach, I think a map could be use during the solving process. If looking at it from a description aspect, a map would be used to finalize those clues afterwords. which way is correct? Well that is what we’re attempting to do… read the poem correctly.

      • You can read the poem all day long and if you don’t understand the method you can’t interpret it .. hence the need for the books .. no one will ever solve this poem without the books. There is a method to the madness logic/imagination IMO

      • F did say all you needed was the poem, but Google and and/or a good map could help, along with a little geography knowledge. Imo, the poem, having locations that were there when he was a kid, points to geographical areas. Once the poem’s meaning is understood, a map would be helpful verifying your finds, like the “it” road needed to go down, etc.
        F said to look at the definitions of the words.Also he said once it was found, everyone will say, “why didn’t I think of that?”

        A word that is key…a ‘key’ on a map breaks down the regions, also called a legend. Imo, we need to go back to the basics, break each region (paragraph) down to its definition. It’s supposed to be straight forward.
        I don’t feel we need to know how f thinks, since the poem is straight forward, but think our adult minds are over complicating the poem’s true meaning, and F knew this would be a stumbling block, thus he hinted, let a child read it.
        Again, IMO.

        • I agree Donna to most of what you say…Todd analysis.

          But the use of a map….I think it was a tool F. used to devise the poem in some manner.

          I think that F. knows he isn’t going to set this all up and not encourage the use of a map…..I know I would get lost having never done this before and no where near the outdoorsman as others are.

          In fact, I hadn’t actually walked through the woods and looked for unknown an location(s), since I was a kid…..

          I was and wasn’t prepared as much as I had hoped or planned for…8 months……but sure glad….I had a map.


          Good luck on our search!

  9. @ Seeker: The way my mind works, as most our adults minds do, is we look for a process, a pattern if you will, to attack a problem. Believe me the poem is not about that. Mr. Fenn knows the difference between his way of thinking, and ours, and we are only beginning to understand the way he thinks, well at least me. Believe me when I tell you the poem is so simple it will blow everybody’s mind once they find out.RC.

    • lookin forwards to your conclusion. Will you be giving a write-up about it soon? Truly I would be interested in hearing more… without give away the cow.

      • I am willing to give generals, and not specifics but even so that may be saying too much. Now I know why Mr. Fenn watches what he says. Good night everyone.

  10. Ok I’ve been around for only a little while and can see banging heads together isn’t getting us very far. At least not the majority.. Herding cats is a difficult process and we are better going our separate ways. I’m done commenting but have one more thing before I go. That treasure MAY be lost forever. IMO Cya

  11. ‘We find after years of struggle that we do not take a trip; a trip takes us’ — John Steinbeck…from the NY Times today.

  12. I just read the last dozen comments made by people and these are my thoughts……

    FF hid the TC and wrote the poem containing the 9 clues along with the books TTOTC and TFTW based on his thought process, the way he thinks.

    Every single searcher out there, including me, interprets the poem, books, clues, and hints and comes up with a solve or solves according to our way of thinking. The person(s) who finds the TC will either think in the same manner as FF or will be a person who trips over the TC on accident in the woods 1000 years from now.

    There’s no sense in arguing with another searcher over the process of how two people come up with a solve from two different directions and/or angles. We all think differently and after over 5 years, none of us think the same as FF.

    Other than that, I’m having a blast doing my “armchair” search and reading what everyone writes and how you all process your thoughts, even when I disagree with some thought processes. It still puts a smile on my face 🙂 Thanks everyone, haven’t had this much fun in a very long time.

    • Bookworm (and others),

      I’m up in the middle of the night with a pounding headache and a very stuffed head from a cold. Can’t sleep. Might as well look in on Dal’s blog to see what folks have posted since I looked earlier this afternoon.

      I’m with you on “the witnessing” aspect of solving this puzzle. if you ask 10 people who all saw a car run a red light and hit a pedestrian in a crosswalk, all ten will say something a bit different because of their perspective to the accident. In my mind (IMO) at least, we’re all dancing around the puzzle trying to figure it out from our perspective. I agree, the first person to start thinking like Forrest is the person that will most likely be able to pick up Indulgence with confidence in the wood.

      Good luck to you RC if you have figured it out. Can’t wait to hear how you did it.

      • I agree you can’t bank in anyone else opinion besides I don’t think Forrest would want you too. This is about you studying and figuring it out on your own. Then when it comes time to get Indulgance go in confidence also make sure you smile for the camera, he probably has a satellite uplink j/k

        • Geez, every time the camera thing comes up, all I can think of is every time I went to the bathroom…

      • I did…from the beginning….and not to pat myself on the back at all….but I did find it actually pretty easy easy to do….shoot he tells you a good portion of highlights of his life in TTOTC….that should get you going in itself to get you to think like he.

        It has been a trip…finding yourself thinking like an 80+ year old man…and as a child…at the same time…LOL

        if you are able…then I think you can be like me…..*smiles*….

        FYI…read some of my recent posts posts about this very topic in the blog…..I put out some questions to ask yourself when moving through this puzzle that I think are helpful points.

        Good luck!

  13. With that said, I had a new thought yesterday about these two lines in the poem…..

    There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
    Just heavy loads and water high

    Before I had always thought these two lines were two separate clues but I had a thought that these two lines are one clue………any thoughts on this?

    • Could be one location OR one direction that leads you to a location ahead.

      Maybe if one also looks at the next verse, n which, that phrase may help define the clue before…in your post…”creek”….which is a location…”water high”….which could be a location…(mountain lake)……and “heavy loads”….a possible description of said location.

      Thus it now maybe able to help you decide on the location you are trying to find…..using a map…


      No, I am not going to repeat that…phewww!! I’m winded just reading it.


    • As far as I am concerned these two lines are to be read together but the clue here is only in the line ‘Just heavy loads and water high.’…

      The previous line to me is to be discounted entirely because of what it says…
      ‘There’ll be no paddle up your creek’ is a simple reverse wording of the old adage
      >You’re up a creek without a paddleYou have a problem with no solutionThis line will not aid your solution to your problem<…So discount this line…

      I know many will not agree, but it is what it is and it works for me… 🙂

  14. It’s almost midnight here in California, I’ve been drinking, and I’ve been analyzing everything for a while now and I’ve had a new line of thinking tonight and I have got to write it down so here goes. I have to start with a copy and paste of the part of the poem I feel is relevant so I can have it written down to refer to it as I write.

    Begin it where warm waters halt
    And take it in the canyon down,
    Not far, but too far to walk.
    Put in below the home of Brown.

    From there it’s no place for the meek,
    The end is ever drawing nigh;
    There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
    Just heavy loads and water high.

    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
    Look quickly down, your quest to cease

    To begin my analogy I’d like to point out the beginning and end of the part of the poem I pasted…..”Begin it” and “to cease”……which to me means “to start” and “to finish”.

    9 clues to me should be contained in this section…..

    #1 – WWWH = a place but a very vague place

    #2 – And take it in the canyon down, = action in a place, again a very vague place

    #3 – Not far, but too far to walk = action towards a very vague place

    #4 – Put in below the home of Brown. = a very Specific place (not an exact quote from FF) “If I told you where the HOB was you would go right to the TC”

    From there it’s no place for the meek = just a statement, not a clue

    #5 – The end is ever drawing nigh; = now you are getting close, “nigh” = to be close to it (I forget the exact definition I saw on google today) So now I should be in the vicinity of the TC.

    #6, #7, & #8 – There’ll be no paddle up your creek, Just heavy loads and water high. = 2 lines to describe the same spot, the exact same spot because there’s no way to describe this spot using only one line without giving it away. This is the new thought I had tonight (while drinking) that caused me to ramble on here right now.

    #9 – If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, Look quickly down, your quest to cease = the TC

    Just some random thoughts from a drunkin nerd in the middle of the night 🙂

    Is it April 2016 yet? LOL

    • Bookworm! That is the 9 clues I also have! I was sober when I got mine! Maybe I need to try that!
      A treasure map/poem needs 3 basic things:
      ☆ description. OF location
      ☆ Directions TO location
      ☆ process of retrieval.
      (Found that on google)
      Breaking it down in steps will allow focus to each specific.
      Thanks for your effort, Bookworm!

      • I’m glad I wrote it down and that I’m not the only other person to think in this manner. If I hadn’t written it down last night I would have forgotten this morning and it would have bugged me all day.

        YW Donna, so what do you think about #6 – #8? 2 lines containing 3 of the clues to describe a single place?

        • bookworm, If I may say, I like your thought process also. It just so happens my “There’ll be no paddle up your creek, Just heavy loads and water high” works the same!
          It does make one thirsty. As of right now, early morn… I’ll just have some coffee. 🙂

          • I just finished my 2nd cup of coffee, time for a beer 🙂 It’s 5 O’clock somewhere….

          • I’m so looking forward to this coming April when I get to West Yellowstone for that week long fishing trip. It will be my first search as well and I’m itching to share my solve with all of you. I don’t even care if it’s not a correct solve, I just want the adventure with my life long buddy. He’s leaving the wife at home and we are both taking the week off from work. And we both have wanted to check out Montana. We were planning on going in May and camping out but we got a hook up to stay in a resort for 7 nights for free during the last week of April. At almost 40 years old, this is probably a good thing to come back each day to a warm shower and a bed to sleep in. All me and my buddy have to do is drive the 1000 miles to get there, that’s a walk in the park 🙂

  15. I think people are getting hung up on the word “nine”. Start at first line and search for a clue. Once you’ve found what you think is the first clue, find the next clue, then the next. If at the last line you have fewer or more than “nine”, adjust your thinking accordingly. The test of whether a clue is really a clue is … does each successive clue reduce the size of the geographic funnel?

    • I agree. There’s nine sentences, so I don’t see much of a point in numbering individual items out of it you think you’ve figured out. If you think “home of Brown” is a clue, you can write down what you think it means without assigning it a number. If you gave it a 1, 2, 3, 4, or whatever, it’s not going to make much of a difference unless the whole solve makes sense.

  16. this is how I think it goes imo – starting at lower elevation-going north- hob- wwwh-
    blaze- in the wood-heavy loads -take the chest and go in pease

  17. I made it really simple for myself, every word in every line is a hint or a clue. As long as you get the first clue right you are well on your way….. I am currently on my fifth home of Brown, the last three within about forty miles of each other. I have not completely given up on any but the first two. The poem is written to get people off of the couch, some parts you are just going to have to go see for yourself. If they fit that’s great, continue moving forward with your search. If not reconsider where you missed the path. Get the first clue wrong you could spend the rest of your life searching in the wrong area. Does Forrest care? I think not, his intention was only that we may enjoy TTOTC. I know I am.

    • Well said JL. The first thing I did was look up every definition of every word and wrote it all out. Many of the words have multiple meanings and I found that often the less popular definition applies.

      • FennaticTom,
        I also did the same, I can see a clue or a hint everywhere. My problem is I never know when I’m confusing myself, therefore I try to operate on KISS philosophy.

          • But seriously folks…
            There are plenty of wrong turns to make, but if you don’t look around each bend you are selling yourself short.

            I’ll be here all week. 😉

        • JL…I agree.
          Winter is upon us.
          It’s time to read the poem over and over, read TOTC, then read the poem again!
          Remember the 5 P’s!

          • Lol.. I thought you were referring to the “p’s” of marketing…

            Some additional “p’s” have been added over the years such as:

            And hey let’s not forget
            Perception… 🙂

          • Donna, my dad was 20 years in the US Navy and I never heard that before either. Just SNAFU – Siuation Normal, All Messed Up – (Keeping it G rated).

          • My hubby, Jim, said they taught that in military movements. I also found it on google, not the advertising one.
            What ever.

          • It’s an old Marine saying… but its the 7p’s, not 5. The 5 p’s are just a G rating adaptation in the business world of the Marine one which is “Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance”, and yes this is used in the military as I have heard it at least twice in my 12 years in the infantry.

        • Hello, JL. I try to operate on the KISS principle, also…but it’s quite difficult sometimes. It’s not always black and white.

          To make things worse it’s even more difficult to think clearly after rocking all night and part of every day. 🙂

          Btw, I feel bad for the second guy in that picture. His makeup isn’t as cool as the other guys’. It kinda reminds me of Sylvester…the cat…not Stallone.

          “Sufferin’ succotash!”

          • Thank you Iron Will. 🙂 Jim didn’t say 7, protecting my ears, I guess! Glad someone knew about it.
            Anyway, that’s how I’m approaching the clues, #1 in and #1 out with Indulgence. I’ve done my “searches”, and am ready to have a 7 P’s experience!

  18. There are lots of definitions and many have multiple meanings, but in the end it is only the definitions and meaning as defined by Mr. Fenn that apply. That was my first lesson, I cannot use my definitions, it must be Mr. Fenns and that leads to a lot of guess work and following trails only to discover that you missed the path somewhere and its time to back track. If I could just walk to the chest on my first try it would not mean as much and Mr. Fenn would surely be disappointed. I have found the chest sitting right here at my computer imagining that I am just a little smarter then everyone else, looked for all the possible flaws and decided I must be right. Traveled many miles, slept in the back of my pick-up, got up and walked to my predetermined spot only to discover it was not there.

    At that point many thoughts went through my mind. I had moved with confidence, my plan was flawless but yet no bronze chest for my effort. Where could I have possibly gone wrong. I suspect this process will continue until one of three things happen. In he end it is O.K. because in my mind I believe I have found what Mr. Fenn has sent us in search for.

    • That’s exactly where I am at…..come this April I will embark on my first search “boots on the ground” and I will go confidently to my spot. If the TC is not there, It’s OK, I will fulfill FF’s goal and my own, to explore the Rockies and I will be content.

      • Here…here….The Thrill of the Chase….is no done by everyone…..but was done by you.

        Having fun doing it….is the most important part…everything else…well..that is icing on the adventure.

        Good luck!

      • It is my belief that no one can know the spot until they find the Blaze. I do not believe it is possible to find the Blaze till you take the journey. I also do not believe that it is possible to find the Blaze until you know WHAT the Blaze is.

        Where warms waters halt is Madison Junction.
        The Canyon is Madison Canyon
        Put in below the home of Brown is at 7 Mile Bridge.
        While you are walking up the Madison towards Bakers Hole Campgrounds always look to your right to find the Blaze. However if you do not know what the Blaze is you will walk right past it. Therefore you must know WHAT the Blaze is before you “put in”. FF made it possible to know what the Blaze is (and he did it recently) but he did not make it easy. It is out there. I even made it easier (if I am correct) on this blog for people to discover what the Blaze is. To easy.

  19. Thinking differently:

    I think everyone agrees that “There’ll be no paddle up your creek” references a common saying: ‘up a creek without a paddle’… in which ‘creek’ means a difficult situation, not an actual creek; and ‘paddle’ means help, not an actual paddle. So, I am presenting a no-creek, no-paddle thought on a different interpretation of a single word.

    The Creek & Paddle phrase is purposeful, it affirms that at this point in stanza 3, the seeker is in a difficult location and needs a paddle (help). “Just heavy loads” may be that paddle, a clue.

    Consider HEAVY LOADS v, JUST HEAVY LOADS. The word JUST offers a little more interpretive value. The word JUST is leavened with a meaning of ‘measured’… as in, a JUST sentence for a crime, or JUSTified margins on a printed page.

    A rock slide or outcropping is a heavy marker, but a stone structure or stone stairway is both heavy and a JUST marker.

    Just my example of thinking differently, all IMO of course.

      • Thanks, and then ff uses JUST 4 lines further on, just to make it seem innocuous, unimportant. To cancel or dilute any thoughts about it having any more specific interpretation. Sooo clever, but we’re catching on I think.

    • HEY! Has anyone looked up the meaning or origin of “P.U.R.C”? Salt water creek, military hospital…? Also means strength…NO alternative but to be strong.
      Google the term, read all the entries. Very interesting.
      It may not be telling you that you’re in trouble, it may be saying:
      It’s not a place for a weenie, a water course ahead,
      You are getting close,
      Get brave, have fortitude, dont give up, strong,
      There is heavy loads and water high you must contend with to reach the blaze!

  20. It’s just after midnight again here in California and I rambled a bit last night breaking down what I believe to be the 9 clues in a general sense. One thought I left out that I wanted to put down is #9, the Blaze. Now I know there’s a section dedicated to the Blaze as well as to HOB, and WWWH but I wanted my comment in this section with the comments I made last night so when I forget what I said tomorrow morning I can look in one place to reread what I wrote from the night before.

    I had said in another blog on this website that I felt I would not find the Blaze until I am there on the search in person, “boots on the ground”. I have since changed my mind on this. If my memory serves me correctly (which is not always the case) FF once said a person would go directly to the TC if all 9 clues were figured out correctly, and do so with confidence. Also FF said all we needed was the poem and a good map. FF even went as far as giving Google Maps as an example of a good map. As such, I have changed my opinion about the Blaze, I should be able to figure out all 9 clues and see every step of my journey on Google maps.

    I should be able to see “the blaze” on google maps…….

    Just another random thought from a drunkin nerd in the middle of the night 🙂

    • “I should be able to see ‘the blaze’ on google maps”.

      I disagree.

      If you can find the blaze on a map, you would not need to know the clues that preceded it. Sounds like you’re trying to skip over all the clues except the blaze. FF has said that the clues need to be followed in succession. Ergo, clue 2 is not identifiable until clue 1 is identified. Clue 3 is not identifiable until clue 2 is identified, and so on.

      • I agree with following the clues in order and not skipping to HOB or to the Blaze, but how will I know to go straight to the TC with confidence without seeing all 9 clues on a map and through research?

      • I disagree with both of you (bookworm and Ken).

        Suppose the Blaze is nothing more than your path, trail, way of travel, etc. “If you have been wise” is the clue that confirms you are where you need to be.

        Imagine that the first four stanzas are not Fenn speaking to you, but rather someone (something) speaking to Fenn. Let’s call it the “spirit”. With that in mind, the chest is in the possession of Fenn through the first four stanzas.

        Now let’s re-read stanza 4 with that assumption in mind.

        If you have been wise and found the blaze –
        – wise is a clue to Fenn telling him he is on the right path.

        Look quickly down your quest to cease –
        – means if he looks down he will miss it. Look up.

        But tarry scant in marvel gaze –
        – There is a very specific mountain in the direction of
        – intended travel, but this is not the mountain you seek.

        Just take the chest and go in peace.
        – since Fenn is already in possession of the chest, this
        -tells him where to take it. “Go in peace”.

        Breaking it down further

        Wise = Albright Peak – All Bright = Wise
        Look down your quest to cease= means Fenn needs to look up or he will miss the way.
        Marvel = Mount Thor – not what you should be looking for, so don’t dwell on it.
        Go “in-peace” = go “Wimpys”. Albright Peak is known as Wimpys Knob. note – You can’t get this one by reading it. Say “go Wimpys” out loud two or three times. Listen good. 🙂

        Conclusion – there is no shining marker defining a blaze. If you have found the correct path (blaze) you will be able to identify the clues in this stanza.

        So, in general, the blaze is visible via Google earth. The Blaze is a thing; just not a thing you can independently quantify by itself.

        All above is IMO.

        Go back to the nine clues archives to see how I got here after putting in below the hoB, and also my WWWH and the canyon that we should not be looking down into.

        Scott W

        • Forgot to mention – I did not pull “Wimpys” out of my butt. Fenn specifically mentions it by name in TTOTC. First few pages.

          Scott W

        • Scott,

          Lets play with what you stated, but you know I’m going to put a twist one it…

          The idea of “something” speaking to fenn, was my question about, anything in the chest related to the hiding spot, which ended up being a “No.” Yet lets say you’re correct, and the “I” in stanza one is not fenn. This does make sense as, in stanza five it states… So why is it I must go and leave my “trove” for all to seek?

          What is the reason for the change in ‘treasure’ to ‘trove’? and in the final stanza another change to ‘chest’… sure their all one in the same in the end, yet are they one of the same in each sentence?

          Now the ‘treasure’ is in past tense, ‘trove’ is in present tense and within a question, and chest is also in present tense, but represented by the challenge to us. Could fenn be writing the poem in a narrative of the chest in past tense, and if so… how do you read the poem differently?

          The other interesting part of stanza one is “As i have” in stanza six it’s I’ve done it” why the change in “I have”?
          Every word is deliberate…

          Before someone puts up the Q&A about the treasure and the chest are the same… I’m not debating that, I’m asking about what they mean to each part of the poem.

          • Seeker,

            Let’s focus on “treasure” vs. “trove”.

            Treasure –
            a quantity of precious metals, gems, or other valuable objects.

            Trove –
            literally “treasure found.” Originally any precious metal object one finds hidden whose owner is unknown.


            In Stanza 1 – 4 it is a treasure by definition, because it is in his possession.

            In stanza five it becomes a “trove” because it is not in his possession.

            Forget about the “unknown ownership”. Focus on the words “hidden”, “found”, and “finds”.

            It is in Fenn’s possession (a treasure). Then it is hidden to be found (a trove).




            Treasure Trove –
            valuables of unknown ownership that are found hidden, in some cases declared the property of the finder.

            — Property of the finder —-

            Scott W

          • Hi Q1….in a legal aspect….a trove is “abandoned belongings” and still legally possessed by the owner of still alive”.

            So in one sense, a trove could be considered still in the present tense.


    • I also agree on poem, maps, and research as the only way to solve the puzzle, not necessarily to recover the chest. Someone COULD actually stumble across it since it is sitting out there in the Rockies somewhere, though Forrest has probably placed it where that makes that occurrence a remote possibility. Google as a good map depends on how you use it. As a traffic map it is pretty useless. The best way, in my opinion, is the Terrain map which is like a topographic map. The Satellite view or Google Earth are good for confirmation. Google Earth’s Historic view is good to look at an area in a different season. In other words if the current view is covered in snow, if you switch to Historical view and go back a few months or years you can probably find the area photographed in a different season.

      For topo maps of NFs I like:

      You can save the maps to your computer in a PDF format for offline searching.

      Is the blaze visible? I thought it was in my first solution (“TTOTC Solution” under Other’s Adventures on this blog) and it may possibly be in the correct solution. Who knows?

      Best of luck to you in your searches!

      • Thanks TxTH, I didn’t know that about being able to switch Google maps to a historical setting and looking during a different season, that will be very helpful. I also use a topo map of my search areas to verify elevation (got to stay about 5K ft) LOL.

  21. bookworm- imo there is no other way to find the treasure and that’s by -map and research – imo to change your way of thinking would be the wrong thing to do – I think you have solved the first part – map and research

  22. Believe me when I say a map is not needed until you solve the poem. Even though the searcher may find the clues on a map he or she will not be sure where they are going. It is easier to solve the poem than looking for the clues on the map. I wish I could say it is a fact, but I won’t do it until I get my hands on the treasure. All this is my opinion.RC

      • Hello, Frank. How do you get to Fennegie Hall?

        Research, Research, Research!

        To HELL with practice! 🙂

        If at first you don’t succeed…Research, Research AGAIN!

  23. I’ve read some comments that say that the blaze is not visible on Google earth but I don’t remember seeing that as a quote from f. Anybody know for sure?

    • 1stbranch7 –

      Here is where he said it ……..

      Forrest Fenn, Moby Dickens Book Shop, 11/02/2013 (Uploaded by Toby Younis)

      38:48 – Fenn: “Google Earth doesn’t go down far enough.”

      If you haven’t listened to the Moby Dickens Book Shop interview and questions and answers – it would be a good idea. It’s listed somewhere on this blog………

    • FF has said that if a searcher starts out looking for the blaze, he or she is wasting their time. Which makes sense. Here’s the reason why …

      The point of having multiple clues and following the clues in order of their appearance in the poem is to use each clue to find the next sequential clue. Looking for the blaze first, or trying to find it on some map (Google or otherwise) is like trying to beat the system by ignoring the preceding clues. Identifying the blaze, or any clue, is dependent on identifying correctly the clue that immediately preceded it.

      Searching for the blaze without first identifying the other clues correctly implies the searcher has not found even the first clue, much less subsequent clues. Hence, FF’s comment about wasting one’s time.

      In my opinion one cannot find the treasure chest by skipping over clues or relying entirely on easy, obvious maps like Google earth.

    • Well – I didn’t read the rules until after I posted the Bio. I will understand it you delete it.

      No worries. It is what it is.

      Scott W.

      • Hey Scott, I read in one of last years SB’s you posted about Mississippi and Alabama family ties? I was born in Tuscaloosa, AL and raised in Starkville, MS. It’s nice to read about you in the new intro page, I think it hasn’t been getting promoted very much. I enjoy reading your post.

        • Thanks Cholly.

          I’ll probably have to re-do the intro post. I didn’t notice the 500 word limit until after I had clicked the “post comment” button. I won’t be surprised if it gets deleted, as I understand why a limit was imposed in the first place (to keep people like me from rambling). 🙂

          I will be in Hattiesburg for T-day, and Bham for Xmas. I head back that way quite often as that is where my most of my extended family live.

          Scott W

    • @Gregorious : Here’s what I can tell you. Think differently than now, and you’ll have a better chance to figure it out.RC

      • Are you sure you are not f in disguise? Almost as vague as the poem is… IMO Just toying. He did say that google earth does not have a pic of TC because it does not go that far down. Moby Dickens Video I Believe…. I like ya’ll pretty cool here. IMO

        • Welcome, Chesney! Glad you joined!
          You’ll learn alot here! It seems everyone has a different “specialty”, some can quote F by memory. Some have built in maps. Some can rattle a F poem off the top of their head! Some have imaginations in outer space, and some are as logical as Spock!
          Sometimes brains clash, it gets hot, then everyone makes up.
          Goofy is the muscle and Dal is the …founder with determination!
          Read EVERYTHING here, watch the interviews by F.
          One day, you seem to see the light, then it snaps off and you start again. Or you have an “AH HA!” moment and it’s slapped out of your head by another searcher correcting what you thought f said. It’s cool, though.
          I’ve lurked on other blogs, like most of us have, but this is by far the BEST place to call home, and everyone your Fenn family!
          Best of luck!
          ¥PEACE ¥

          • Thank you for the warm welcome Donna M. , I hope to do all the things that I was attributed to do. 🙂 See there, she knows what I mean!!

  24. I just got the book in the mail “To Far To Walk”……….I’m so excited…….it’s 3 times as thick as “The Thrill of the Chase”. 🙂

  25. Goofy, Dal, I just noticed that some of the archives are empty… are they gone for good or am I not searching correctly? I am interested in early WWWH archives… from day one. Thanks.

    • OS the archives that only have one post in the archive are a little confusing. If you will click on WWWH part one it will open up.

  26. @RC, very interesting. Now you have my head spinning. Without butchering his quote, Forrest said that a person will go with confidence to the treasure. With your solve do you feel confident? Lastly, Is solving the poem the only thing you have to do in finding the treasure, besides actually going there?

    • I am new to the chase and this blog… but there was a f quote something to the effect of the person having to be there for something. Sounded like something GE does not show IMO.

  27. I am going to spoon feed to all that read, what I believe to be a HUGE breakthrough in the way we approach the solve. IMO!!…
    We MUST start at the beginning, which is the first stanza…”I” is VERY important…it is the word that is key…
    By the time we put in below the home of Brown (Brown is the key word BTW) we are In the correct location…and by the time we take the chest and go in peace, all nine clues have been divulged…A METAL DETECTOR IS MANDATORY!! The blaze is a sound…White noise, if you will, that you will hear when you pass over the Carson City gold piece Forrest buried shallow in order to mark the location of the chest…which he buried too deeply to find with a metal detector!! “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down, your quest two C’s…So it is POSSIBLE to find the Carson City gold piece, and still not find the treasure…especially if you aren’t aware of the treasure and you “happen upon the coin”…all is IMO

    • Dude – I’m not buying it. I don’t even feel it.

      The concept is cool, but how am I to derive the Carson City gold piece from the poem and a map?

      Scott W

      • I understand your hesitation…but I assure you, it fits quite well with the rest of my interpretation….I am not saying I am correct, but I have a solve that takes me to a particular location using similar methods for all of the clues….Did you know, that if you draw a line through Arizona from the SW corner to the NE corner and continue that line through Denver, you cross an intersection at 13th and Pennsylvania, which is directly below the home of Molly Brown…AZ I Halve go NE in there…BTW, this is NOT the correct interpretation (IMO) but just the WAY I approach the clues right now So is south NO is North, etc

        • IMO there is only ONE way the chest could stay hidden for 1,000 years. IT HAS TO BE BURIED. It may be in a box, or entombed, but it is not on the surface, or sitting out in the open behind a waterfall, or stashed in a cave, (unless its buried in a cave). And I know why the chest is wet too…but not in the way you might think…

          • Sorry to disturb, but I tried viewing the “box is wet” video yesterday and could not find it among the dozens saved. I think I deleted it by mistake. Was it a CBS video? thx

        • Michael D –

          Where is the Carson City Gold Piece in the chase? Is it in the book ? Did he talk about it ? What ……….. I must be missing something.

    • Please sir, your feeding me Breakthrough Soup with a runcible spoon. I need some nutritious evidence, some facts, some reasoning, some logic please.

      • I would assume he’s getting Carson City from the fact they minted the gold double eagles. Under Abraham Curry (curry also an herb, like a banana!) he was known as the “father” of Carson City…kinda like Carson Cities Curry 🙂 maybe…CCC action?? At least in spice trade of the tea party times it sounds golden…and the architect, Mullet, was obviously down with parties (at least in the back) I got nothing but that guess. And now wonder What coins did Custer lose in his payload that went missing?

        • Okay, just hear me out for a second, and think. Where on earth can a man go today, and KNOW he is the only person that has been there in 1,000 years? Now shrink that down to three and a third states. I am not saying it is IMPOSSIBLE…but it is highly unlikely that an 80 year old man drove a vehicle to a spot, then made two trips to another spot less than a few miles from his car, and arrived a spot that will go untouched by another human for 100 to 10,000 years…UNLESS THE CHEST IS BURIED, or entombed. And if it is buried or entombed, it must be protected from the other people like FF that wander around with metal detectors looking for cool things in the middle of nowhere. So how to protect the chest from accidental discovery, but still make it findable to a poem solver? BURY IT deeper than a metal detector can go, just like his bronze bells and jars…but then place a marker/decoy on top of it…to the casual hunter that MIGHT happen upon the coin, they won’t discover the chest because they are too busy gazing with marvel at the discovery of the Carson City double eagle they just found! but to the person that solved the clues to arrive at that spot, the CC coin is the BLAZE that they were on a quest to find, and they KNOW the chest lies beneath it. And FF’s bones would lie on top of the CC coin if he were to “fling” himself over the chest. MOST of the PLACES the clues refer to existed when FF was a kid, but not all of them…If you’ve been wise, and found the BLAZE (correct spot, path, marker),look quickly down, cuz it’s right below you, your QUEST IS TWO C’s…he’s telling us that when we find the CC coin, the chest is directly below it. It’s GENIUS!! its PERFECT!! But most of all, it’s probably wrong!!!

  28. Q: Why do Monkeys always get the best seats on trains?

    A: Because all the people arenalways busy standing around the windows waiting to see the bananas…..that grow on trees….that marvin told them about…

    My point only being maybe the “clues” or keywords aren’t the bananas even though that’s where your eyes look…but more what they are distracting you from…yup, that’s right…


    Aka: George.
    -Hope you’re keepin’ that nose clean….that rolex isn’t getting any younger now 😉


      • Haha. Really though. A banana is technically an herb. I think that’s why F likes his spice drawer and comments and SBs on it too. Except that’s the opposite….we all dig through the spices looking for a proverbial banana…when we’d have a better shot at finding a literal one. I think the clues are like that too. Brown isn’t Brown any more than what makes it a “home” is that the capital letter (in this case B) says so. So if the “home” is the banana we’re after…well…in that sentence the “home” is a “capital” no Brown (or Herb …or bananas) about it. Just IMO. A little fun ‘food’ for thought on a Monday night.

        • ?? Kev- it really is an herb…and it grows from a root system much like aspens…so even though fire can take the top it’s still got it’s roots. Technically the fruit it a berry growing from the herb….and sometimes one huge purple flower hangs from below.
          If you would like to see a drawing of the plant it’s in TTOTC on the right side of the drawing with the torpedoes.

          • @Jamie Jones, the huge purple flower is the banana, I’ve eaten them a lot in Thailand, first the purple flower comes down then this becomes the banana stalk, if you eat the flower you don’t get no bananas, lol. (If this is what you are talking about). Always like what you have to say.

        • Saffron-Crocus Sativus(which sounds familiar, hmm) flowers can be more valuable than gold. I never knew this.

    • I am not that smart so let me see if I have understood all this. Hang onto the brass ring in your coin pocket and go for the gold. A babe monkey shares gerber bananas with the crowd; generously. Young monkeys are looking for shiny things and will find them on there own and learn about coin pockets too. I am a young monkey and share bananas sometimes, as do you and others. I sure do appreciate solid food even it is table scraps off the floor.

      IMO- To find the chest there are a few things one needs. Canyon ‘Down’ is possibly a clue to The Lo-cation:
      Cation: positively charge ion attracted to the cathode in electrolysis. derived from 1834 Greek Kation “going down” katienai “to go down”, from kata ‘down’
      So, take it in the canyon ‘down’: low. LowCation.
      I Think like this at times. I also knead Know-ledge, no ledge, knoll edge

    • Got it, 6:56 pm, happy hour comes to an end. The pina colada song is blending in my head. Is it the rum or the coconut pounding this thread. When I look down theres no Rolex it’s…uhoh lost my train of thought. Now it’s delete or post, either way tomorrow I’ll regret that extra 2 fer.

  29. Yiga,
    In one of his live bookstore question/answer sessions, someone, I think it was Stephanie, asked FF if a metal detector would help. To which FF replied, “Yes, if you were in exactly the right spot”

    • Question to those that know…. does a metal detector detect thru stone? Or only thru dirt? Is substance or density a factor?
      Thanks in advance.

      • OS2 –

        The answer is – yes, it will. If you get a detector – it’s always good to experiment at home. Bury a penny or a gold ring and see how it works. Of course, we are not looking for a penny – so that bronze box would make a really loud sound. If it where me – I would move the rock or at least want to know what may be under the rock itself.
        Density is always a factor in using a detector.

          • uken2it,

            I believe that was answered, to having taken the contents first, and the chest second… as well as carried concealed and in the open, both. and walked less than a few miles. { don’t have the quotes, as I don’t think they actually help or provide useful information… but I do recall them being stated}

            I also recall something to the affect no tools / special equipment is not needed / required… I can only assume a metal detector would fall in that area of thought. I’m sure with some searching the quotes can be found… yet that was my recollection of what was said.

      • Riddle me this please….I can’t wrap my head around how a metal detector would help if you knew exactly where to put it. I actually see the statement as really intruguing based in that, if taken at face value and you knew “exactly” where to put it- it wouldn’t help because you already knew where you were. So (and thanks for sharing Chris!) I give it a bit of weight in that it seems he’s distracting from his answer. My point being (bear with me on difficult words to express)…

        I don’t think the “help” could be as far as location. (As if you new exact, you’d already have it, so no help there) HOWEVER assuming you believe his words it may offer some help elsewhere? I can only came up with an example of “where to put it” besides location on ground…as where you would “put it” like in the settings or display….I don’t have a metal detector myself…but maybe when set to bronze or gold there’s some possible clue to something else on the display?

        Does that make sense? Like I’m trying to ask myself how “where you put it” could help knowing it’s not placement on ground since the statement nullifies you needing help there. It can’t help what you already knew- must help elsewhere. Where else besides display might that be? There’s gotta be a few options my brain just needs help storming on it. Lol

        • A metal detector will not help if you are not in the right spot but it could help if you were in the right spot because it is hidden from view, e.g. under a bush, under a log, buried (although I do not think it is buried). On second thought I guess a metal detector could help even if you were NOT in the right spot as it would tell you that you were wrong. 🙂 I vaguely remember Forrest saying at one time that you wouldn’t need any tools to find the TC so my interpretation of that statement is that you would not need a metal detector, shovel etc. Forrest has said the TC is hidden and if we can figure out the poem correctly, we should be led right to it. Unfortunately, none of us has done that….yet. 🙂

          • I thought Mike said the quote was that a metal detector would only help if you already knew the exact spot. So this says to me that it doesn’t help you locate or confirm a spot since you already KNOW the EXACT spot anyhow…you could just dig- no detector needed.
            However since he says it could help- it leads me to thinkaybe it helps in some way aside from locating something…since his statement actually includes you already knowing exactly where to be. I mean he threw those words in there on purpose…he didn’t just say “yeah It could” he said it could But you’d already need to know where. I don’t know. Cryptic. As usual. Maybe you could use it to dig lmao 😉

          • Or Jamie, Just plain old sarcasm/irony.
            If someone ask you a question … you you give them an answer, because they expected an answer… doesn’t mean the answer is helpful or correct.

            Just something I recall fenn saying in so many words.

        • We lived in the So CA Tustin/Santa Ana area for 6 years but are now in N CA.

          You’re in Uganda? That’s a long way from the Treasure! 🙂

    • Hi Cholly,

      Thanks for the link it worked. As I was watching it then I of course saw it was the NM Tourism video. I had been thinking it was a CBS.

      Africa – well we are in Uganda. Been here for nine years.

      • Yiga-
        You will find dozens of links to TV, radio and press stories on this blogs media coverage page. At the top, right lettering. Click on “Most Important Information” then scroll down to the “Media Coverage” link

  30. I don’t think a metal detector is needed at all. First, if a metal detector were absolutely needed I don’t think Forrest would willingly give that information out because that would be a HUGE clue. Metal detectors are illegal in most national forests. So that would really narrow down the search areas. Unless Forrest doesn’t care if we break the law and get ticketed. I personally think he is a little bit more considerate than that.

    • A metal detector will help you if your in exactly the right spot. f

      Well I don’t want to give too many more clues but ah, it’s a very special place to me and otherwise I could not have done it, I mean I just couldn’t take it out and ah bury it in the ground someplace where I didn’t know where I was. I think that was a (crucial) part of it! f

      Greg read his books F was routinely breaking the law.

      It’s clear to me that he buried in the ground where he knew where he was and not just some random spot, if folks want to go on searching without this knowledge then they might want to expand the search area to Alaska as well. Good day to the misinformed!!

      • Cory, I totally disagree with you and think you should stop searching if you think a metal detector is needed. You don’t understand Texas sarcasm! Most of us have heard ff say ‘buried’ on more than one occasion, it’s a common theme that treasures are buried and it’s easy to slip up and use that word when talking but IMO Indulgences is ‘hidden’ and I’m sticking with it. No metal detector needed and it is illegal as mentioned above. Good luck!

        • Another misinformed sheep….sorry I rained on your parade that was not a slip up. Go back and watch the video again! But your right the “official” story is that it’s hidden. Look up the definition of hidden.

          Full Definition
          1 :being out of sight or not readily apparent :concealed
          2 :obscure, unexplained, undisclosed

          Of course it’s not visible because he buried it in the ground as he said above.

          • I have watch the video Cory, I could point out many words fenn used that seemed wrongly pronounced / changed in mid-sentence… one simple mistake was Blog and bog… the point is, the buried verse hidden will never be satisfied. If it was deliberately covered, both definitions of buried and hidden come into affect.

            My own personal way of thinking; buried if to remove material [dirt, sand ] and replace it in the same spot.
            Hidden is out of sight. That could be a the action of covering a lower area with a stone slab, or removing a stone and recovering the same spot. Some would argue covering is buried… and that’s my point…

            The word secret, which fenn has used in comments and the book, relate to hidden. { one example; the Dr. pepper. If you don’t know this comment you should look it up ~ can be found on this blog} For me that doesn’t say buried in my line of thinking.

            Just my opinion.

    • From the BLM website:
      Metal detecting is a recreational activity that people do to find coins, jewelry, and precious metals. Metal detecting is allowed on BLM lands as long as no artifacts are removed. Artifacts should be left alone and reported to the appropriate Field Office. Avoid all cultural and archeological sites. The Metal Detecting enthusiast may remove some rocks (handful) from areas such as picnic areas, campground areas, and recreational sites. The enthusiasts may remove some rocks as long as the rocks are not being removed from another mining claim. Mining claims can be researched on the LR2000 ( Enthusiasts are only allowed to make minimal surface disturbance (i.e. removing a couple of stones for memories).

      If you have any questions regarding your activities, then please contact the appropriate Field Office for authorization.
      From the US Forest Service:

      Metal detecting is a legitimate means of locating gold or other mineral specimens and can be an effective prospecting tool for locating larger mineral deposits. This activity can also be conducted as a recreational activity locating lost coins, jewelry or other incidental metallic items of little historical value. Prospecting using a metal detector can be conducted under the General Mining Laws and is covered under the Forest Service 36 CFR 228A locatable mineral regulations for lands open to mineral entry. Metal detecting for treasure trove or lost items such as coins and jewelry is managed as a non minerals-related recreation activity. It is Forest Service policy that the casual collection of rocks and mineral samples is allowed on the National Forests.

      Metal detecting is a low surface impact activity that involves digging small holes rarely more than six inches deep. Normally, metal detecting does not require a notice of intent or written authorization since it only involves searching for and occasionally removing small rock samples or mineral specimens (36 CFR 228.4(a)).

      Metal detectors may be used on public land in areas that do not contain or would not reasonably be expected to contain archaeological or historical resources. Normally, developed campgrounds, swimming beaches, and other developed recreation sites are open to recreational metal detecting unless there are archaeological or historical resources present. In such cases, forest supervisors are authorized to close the area to metal detecting and the closure would be posted at the site. Such closure notices are not always practical in undeveloped areas, and federal agencies have not identified every archaeological site on public lands. It is possible, therefore, that you may encounter such archaeological remains that have not yet been documented or an area that is not closed even though it does indeed contain such remains. Archaeological remains on public land are protected under law. If you were to discover such remains, you should leave them undisturbed and notify a FS office.

      The purpose of the restrictions to metal detecting on public lands is to protect historical remains. The Code of Federal Regulations, (36 CFR 261.9) states, “The following are prohibited: (g) Digging in, excavating, disturbing, injuring, destroying, or in any way damaging any prehistoric, historic, or archaeological resources, structure, site, artifact, or property. (h) Removing any prehistoric, historic, or archaeological resources, structure, site, artifact, property.” The Archaeological Resources Protection Act (ARPA, 16 U.S.C. 470cc also prohibits these activities, stating, “No person may excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface or attempt to excavate, remove, damage or otherwise alter or deface any archaeological resources located on public lands or Indian lands unless such activity is pursuant to a permit…” ARPA exempts the collection of coins for personal use if the coins are not in an archaeological context. In some cases, historically significant coins and other metallic artifacts may be part of an historical-period archaeological site, in which case they would be considered archaeological resources and are protected under law. These laws apply to all National Forest System land and do not vary from state to state.

      Four forms of metal detector use are recognized.
      1. Searching for treasure trove: Treasure trove is defined as money, gems, or precious metals in the form of coin, plate, or bullion that has been deliberately hidden with the intention of recovering it later. This activity requires a Special Use Permit under The Act of June 4, 1897 (16 U.S.C. 551). Forest Service Manual 2724.4 states “allow persons to search for buried treasure on National Forest System lands, but protect the rights of the public regarding ownership of or claims on any recovered property.”

      2. Prospecting: Using a metal detector to locate gold or other mineral deposits is an allowed activity under the General Mining Laws and is subject to the 36 CFR 228A regulations. A Notice of Intent (36 CFR 228.4(a)) is normally not required for prospecting using a metal detector. A Notice of Intent (NOI) is required for any prospecting which might cause disturbance of surface resources. A plan of operation is required for any prospecting that will likely cause significant disturbance of surface resources. Normal metal detecting does not cause surface impacts that require either a NOI or a Plan of Operation. People who use metal detectors for prospecting should bear in mind that many of the mineralized lands within the National Forests and open to mineral entry have been “claimed” by others who have sole right to prospect and develop the mineral resources found on the mining claim. A search of County and Bureau of Land Management records should be made prior to prospecting to determine if an area has been claimed.
      Normally, any gold found can be removed and kept. If the removal of the gold, rocks, or minerals might cause disturbance of surface resources, beyond digging a small shallow hole, a NOI may be required.
      3. Searching for historic or prehistoric artifacts: Using a metal detector to locate archaeological or historical remains is subject to the Antiquities Act of 1906 and the Archeological Resources Protection Act of 1979 (ARPA) as amended and requires a special use permit. Such permits are granted for scientific research only, however, there are many ways to get involved with organized, scientific research. See below for ways to use metal detectors for this purpose under sanctioned public archaeology programs.
      4. Recreational pursuits: The most common form of metal detector use is searching for lost coins, jewelry, and incidental metal items having no historical value. Such use is common in developed campgrounds, swimming areas, and picnic areas and requires no permit. However, one must assume personal responsibility to notice if the area may indeed contain archaeological or historical resources and if it does, cease metal detecting and notify a Forest Service office. Not doing so may result in prosecution under the Code of Federal Regulations or ARPA.

      Metal detecting on the National Forests is recognized as a legitimate prospecting method under the General Mining Laws and also as a recreational activity for the casual collection of rocks and minerals. This policy does not permit the use of metal detectors in or around known or undiscovered cultural or historic sites in order to protect our valuable, non-renewable historical resources. However, recognizing the universal interest in archaeology and history and the vast public knowledge of such resources, the USDA Forest Service sponsors a public archaeology program through which metal detector enthusiasts and others can help. Passport In Time (PIT) is a national program inviting the public to work with agency archaeologists on historic preservation projects. We have done numerous projects through PIT in cooperation with metal detecting clubs and individuals. The cooperation has been beneficial for both the detectorists and agency’s archaeologists. Locating archaeological sites becomes a joint endeavor and we learn a great deal. If you would like more information on this program, call 1-800-281-9176 or visit

      • Michael, thanks for the info. Interesting and confirms my beliefs. The first sentence is the only one that matters, since they only addressed the recreational metal detectorist. IMO.

  31. How many hats have you worn?

    Dal and Goofy need to start a new POST and call it “9 HATS” or “90 hats” .

    I want to suggest they start another thread of topics based on the continuing evolution of possibilities for “Forrest Fenn’s Special Place”

    It would progress like this:

    Does anyone know the common name of the tribe who was believed to have created the arrow point that Forrest found in a field with his father when he was 9 years old?

    ff has told some in the media that “My father would know where I hid the treasure”. ie Moonshots crew who work for Animal Planet.

    So I guess that is way too much to ask my fellow searchers? Now let me say given the time frame he assigned to finding it at 9, and how long he says it may have lain there, waiting, to find that little point which started this Chase, ie his first intro to archaeology and anthropology (art, artifacts) was like the first “HAT” he wore in life, and it may be where he was hooked as “A COLLECTOR”, there it was, laying there for how many ____________ years? A couple of thousand or was it less? Does anyone know for sure? I found this, an of Forrest Interviewed on PBS
    Report From Santa Fe with Lorene Mills, Air Dates: May 13-16, 2011.

    I think his father and grandmother were proud back then and they may have suspected that he was unique in his reverence for ancient art, and artifacts, those things they may have recognized and were well known by them from that tribe who may have chased chickens in his grandma’s family yard in Ft Worth, Tx.

    I think his next hat he wore was probably; “FISHING GUIDE” so tell me what is your suggestion for the next HAT?

    Tom T

    • Hey Tom-
      Read about the “Lubbock Lake Landmark”…the site was discovered when the town used so much warm water the lake dried up (halt?) A young boy hiking around the muddy banks found one of the oldest arrowheads know to that area and changed archeological history forever eventually turning the site into a protected dig site. It led to the very proving our “prehistoric family” had lived there which was previously unknown. The articles I read say the boy was 7-9 but forrest says he bends the facts a bit. I often wonder if maybe it was him or skippy as he’s from there also. “Lucky me, I’m from Lubbock!” Ring a bell? I don’t know- worth a read, I enjoyed it.

      As far as the next hat?
      I’d vote a bolero…just cause the brim would flatter the angles of his face

  32. I simply shared a point of view and stated it was all in my opinion only, and I don’t need to be convinced by anyone on this blog of how wrong I am. I am not trying to convince you of how right I am either…I am simply offering food for thought. I cannot and/or will not back up my ideas with facts or figures…suffice to say, after four years of studying the poem, listening to Forrest, and reading this blog, I am convinced that:

    1. The treasure is real.
    2. Several searchers have been within 200 feet of the chest but have not found it.
    3. Forrest has stated he knows the first 2 clues have been solved.
    4. Forrest has stated that if a person solves the first few clues, they can find the chest. It might be difficult but not impossible.
    5. Searchers have solved the first two clues but went right past the chest.
    6. A metal detector would help if you were in exactly the right spot….for those unfamiliar…YOU HAVE TO BE in exactly the right spot to find a coin with a metal detector….it only works if you are over the coin people…stop being so darn over analytical!!
    7. Wherever the special, private dear and secret spot is, FF planned on dying there at on time, and flinging himself on top of the chest.
    8. There are VERY FEW places a person can drive to, walk a few miles, and be in a spot that nobody else will go in the next 100 to 1000 years…unless that spot is underground or underwater.
    9. Forrest tends to use some words that aren’t in the dictionary, and others that are, he bends a little.
    10. Occasionally it is wise for the fox to dress like the hound.
    11. The poem is straight forward-Forrest wasn’t playing any games when he wrote the poem
    12. It took him 15 years to write the poem. He felt like an architect…EVERY WORD WAS DELIBERATE

    • MichaelD.

      I’m not attempting to convince you on your thoughts one way or another either…

      # 6. “A metal detector would help if you were in exactly the right spot….for those unfamiliar…YOU HAVE TO BE in exactly the right spot to find a coin with a metal detector….it only works if you are over the coin people…stop being so darn over analytical!! ”

      Was it not you that stated; “A METAL DETECTOR IS MANDATORY!! The blaze is a sound…White noise, if you will, that you will hear when you pass over the Carson City gold…”

      If you make such a bold statement / opinion, do you not expect other to be “analytical” ? as you said a metal detector must be over the exact spot, How did you get to the exact spot to begin with. Fenn has stated that “if” a searcher was within 12′ he could not see how they would not be able to find the chest {paraphrasing}. But I know you know the comment as well as I.

      I could also remind you that in a Q&A, is there any of the contents of the chest related to the hide, Answer No. I would think that if there was part of the contents deliberately place were the chest is located [below] as an indicator the chest is there… IMO the answer would be false.

      Lastly: even though you have done some good research on BML land and detectors… who is to say that tomorrow it become illegal to use them… not unlike YNP and other areas where searcher are looking. I mean fenn should no from all his years that, law change overnight and to have a required tool to find the chest could lead to jail time or fine for an unexpected searcher.

      Just my thoughts and opinions

      • Point… counter point. Point is, all points are viable until that pesky bronze box is recovered. Just sayin’…

        • All points?? Really? f didn’t seem to find my solve interpretation of his poem very valid. Granted, it was quite crude and included potty humor…but that’s kinda what you get when you “show it to a kid”. I gave him the benefit of the doubt that a)things were different in his time and b) he was likely a better father than I am.

          No hard feelings f. You weren’t the first person to call me names.

        • Mike,
          I actually like the idea / thought. It gave me pause to think about what we may need to be looking for. Is the “blaze” the point of the chest? and if so what would it be that, only a searcher familiar with the poem/book must know. Sure, could be an ff carved into a boulder, but we have seen many of those in almost all the states. So how would a ” searcher ” know the correct spot that a passerby would not.

          Or does the poem “tell” you? These questions have been asked before, and for me when I read a post like yours… I need to see if it is at all possible. The only way for me to do this, to find it plausible, is to refer to comments, statements, Q&A’s etc. So when you or another write a post as such… you have to expect { at least from me } do review and comment. I think that helps both of us.

          Trust me when I say… buried vs hidden is on my mind as well. But it what each of us considers what those words mean and how they would help us locate the chest.

          • agreed!! The only reason I post such a comment is for it to be scrutinized…Scrutiny is valued…naysaying without further comment is frustrating… I value your input seeker, but some just say no and that is all they offer….

          • Agreed, and that works both ways. At least you had the fortitude to post your reasoning and suspicions… Lets face it, we can come up with many interpretations and because there are so many ways to read into them, it’s great to bounce of the ideas for feed back…

          • Spaniards used all kinds of animal symbols to mark treasure. I think I am looking for an animal symbol for the blaze. Could be a wise-owl or a 4 legged creature. I think I know. I should brush up on Mr. F’s poetry!

      • I don’t think a metal detector will help. F is way too crafty for that. You would have better luck with a stethoscope.

  33. I just finished reading FF’s book To Far To Walk…….I thought there was going to be a story about FF and a friend walking from West Yellowstone to Bozeman??? Other than that not being in there, it was a great read. As far as further clues contained in the book, nothing really jumped out at me regarding the location of the TC or more hints besides the map of course. Still, I’m happy I bought it 🙂

    • Bookworm,
      I agree TFTW is a nice read, I am not sure about clues being located in the stories but maybe some subtle hints IMO.. Everything thing associated with Mr. Fenn and his chest seems to be subtle. I have also read in the blogs somewhere about him walking to Bozeman, but it was a third party statement and I do not know if Mr. Fenn told this story or not. Interesting if true, I do not know many people who would want to walk that far just for the adventure.

      • I would have in my teenage years while in the Boy Scouts but that kind of trip never came up. We did do a 4-5 day rafting trip down the Green River to get the 50 mile rafting badge, that was a lot of fun.

        • Correction, not the badge, it was a patch. Also got a patch for doing a 50 mile bicycle trip.

        • In my younger days I could do 15 to 20 mi. a day elk hunting in the mountains, I would be wore out at days end. I would like to know if Mr. Fenn did walk from West Yellowstone to Bozeman how long it took?

          • dal might know the answer to that. Speaking of 3rd party comments, I also seem to recall somewhere in one of the blogs thinking that the TC (and FF’s final resting place) might be situated in a spot that could also seem like a perch of some sort? This is the only thing that came to mind while reading TFTW when I say that picture of an old indian wrapped in a blanket looking out over the hills (which now I can’t find what page it’s on).

          • I do think that is peculiar, however, one hint was to the effect of not on a montain, but may be near the top. Not sure what this 80 year old man was capable of anymore, but at 85 he has this 39 year old bouncing around like a “superball” both mentally and physically. All IMO

          • @bookworm… That is very wise. I am new but please hear me out. The 6th Stanza seems as if a speech is being made by a very prominent or important person… Mr. Fenn said the mountains are his church. So you may be more than book smart! 🙂 I entertain constructive criticism, not above anyone. Just little ol me! Happy hunting!!!

          • I’ve been writing a personal book of my adventure, and the following are thoughts I jotted down mid-Summer…..

            Fenn said he did all of this in an afternoon, which I gauged to be approximately 6-8 hours of daylight.  I also believe he would have done this during Summer to maximize the time and daylight hours. If you convert walking time for an average man, it takes approximately 30 minutes to walk a mile.  If Fenn took two trips…each mile there and the back, would take him to walk it – in a forest, with a backpack – about 1.5 hours each way.  Multiple that by two, and you have expended at least three of the six hours walking.  If I am to add in trail markings, writing down the path being taken, and other things Fenn could have done, this path would fall well within the time allotted. 

            So in Some sort of conclusion…to walk 92 miles, would take about 28 hours total….at 30 mins smile.

            Hope that helped a little.


          • Tim, Forrest said on Jenny’s site in answering a question from Ron: “…..But I will say that I walked less than a few miles if that will help. I just looked “few” up and one definition is “scant.” Why do I sound like I’m talking in circles? f


            To me saying he walked “less than a few miles” and that he did it in one afternoon, leads me to believe that he probably walked less than 3 miles to the hiding place. So that means for 2 round trips it would probably be at the most 12 miles in an afternoon so maybe 4 to 6 hours of walking, at the most. We all have to guess just how far and fast Forrest walked but I’m thinking it was probably on the low end of the scale because he was carrying around 20+ pounds on 2 of those segments. He very well could have walked less than 100 feet – we just don’t know.

      • IMO….Forrest’s comment of “I walked 92 miles, because I could”…or something like that….well….since he never included that he got a ride back to where he started from….to me….that is actually F wlking 46 miles each way….not a one-way trip.

        Forrest seems to be clever and this is covered with cleverness.

        Now if you could imagine…F would “know” this area….and….I’d imagine that this 46 mile radius is where he placed the chest.

        Could be…..*smiles*…..but 46 miles radius, is sure alot of land to cover, and if you really think about a starting point in W. Yellowstone, you could only arrive in MT or WY.

        Cheers to all.

  34. here is something that you should talk about – I think that the first stanza is talking about the omega – here is why – imo the omega has 3 clues or hints what ever you want to call it – 1 – the center of the omega is a hole in the ground – 2 the out line of the omega is the bank of the hole -3 the bottom opening of the omega is the bank where he dug the hole to put in the treasure – this is just my opinion and nothing more – just something to think about

    • Frank,
      I see things somewhat similar: there is a hole in the ground and can be seen from the bank. Your reflection is near an ancient water source. In fact across is the ancient’s water gathering spot.

  35. I have wondered about Forrest’s comment – “I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.f”

    It seems a lot of people, myself included, start thinking of how many hours are in an afternoon and how far total he could have traveled during that time.

    However, as I look at his comment now he did not say it “took the whole afternoon”, it was just “done in one afternoon”. He may have done the two trips in an hour and fifteen minutes for all we really know (in my opinion) – 10 minutes to the spot, 2 minutes to place the first load, 11 minutes back to his car, 3 minutes to grab the second load, 12 minutes back to the spot, 24 minutes to place the items into the chest, put it in its final resting place, take a last look around and then, finally, 13 minutes to walk back out to his car, sit down, and chuckle – “Did I really just do that?”. The increasing time for the walks are reflecting Forrest getting a little tired from the trips carrying the loads to the final resting area. 10+2+11+3+12+24+13 = 75

    So, if a person his age (and my age) can cover a mile in around 30 minutes then in ten minutes we could cover 1/3 of a mile or approximately 1700 feet from where the car was parked. That creates the possibility the chest is located closer to where he parked his car than previously being considered by myself and many people. I know taking into account the max time available in an afternoon will yield the maximum distance he should have been able to travel but these numbers illustrate how it could be much closer. Could he possibly have placed it within 200 feet of where he parked his car? Of course all of this is purely hypothetical.

    In my book, I hid the treasure 300 feet from a major 4 lane US highway. I could safely say that literally thousands of people had been within a few hundred feet of my treasure during the two years it took for someone to finally find it.

    Interesting thoughts anyway. 🙂

    • Now that is odd…..because about an hour or so ago, I also posted some info on the calculation you just did above and to be honest with ya….I also, but didn’t mention it…..did a search from a spot….that was approximately 2730ft from where I parked. That was Google Earth measurements.

      Interesting enough, you added the details to my overview….nice going….

      Hmmm…hey Tim, do you think he figured out your search area?


      Good luck Tx!

      • Sorry…getting free the distance…I should have posted only 1730 ft.

        Approx .30 of a mile in walking distance…and it took me and two others approximately 39 mins, because we marked a rudimentary trail.

        Any how….cheers!

        • This is kind of ‘out there’ but so is F so I’m gonna say it anyways… One definition of ‘trip’ is to ‘release’ like a catch, lever, swing. (Trip an alarm etc…literally means ‘to let go’) with a name like “Tarzan” sometimes I picture F somehow attaching it to a rope or vine and ‘swinging’ it across a gorge or something to land on a ledge or something. Maybe by itself…or maybe some way he and friends had done as kids. Either way to swing the chest out on two attempts before getting the land…or going across with it and then back would also be considered ‘to trips’ by the root meaning of ‘trip’. Unlikely maybe? But I like thinking about tarzanning that bad boy like the old game of skittle bowling or whatever. Makes me laugh to
          Picture F going with it so I imaging he just aimed and arched it and secured the land on the second trip. Who knows though.

          Trip also means kicked. But I don’t have a silly scenario involving him kicking it twice…unless it was an accident and he broke his toe and got upset and kicked it again and broke his other toe then laughed at himself as he limped away. Prob. Not though.

          • If we are headed to the twilight zone, I have one thing that is out there and maybe so far that it has no bearing.
            I can not help but wonder why Mr. Fenn did not name the poem? Everything else has a name, he had 15 years to come up with a name. I just dont think it was an oversight.

    • TxTH, consider this, early on in the search, FF mentioned two hunters had been within 500 ft, (possibly someone told him of a road that they had gone down). Recently he claimed 200 ft. (possibly a human trail they had walked down) He also stated that it was not in close proximity of a human trail. Suppose he parked his car, walked 300 feet down a trail. Then he left the trail and traveled 200 feet off the trail, to me far enough away from the trail to not be close proximity to it. All IMO.

    • You guys are forgetting his age, back condition and weight of the treasure. Not to mention rehydration and breaks. 8 miles at 2mls a trip is taxing, especially in virgin ground, logs, rocks, elevation…NO trail! I’m sure he took breaks at his spot and back to car both times.
      It’s really all irrelevant except he stated if he said what HOB was, we’d walk right to it. So, prob pretty close to his “Brown” by a scant few miles.

  36. Hello everyone, I’m itching to know if there were any interesting ideas on the Expedition Unknown show tonight? Anyone? I don’t have cable. Thanks! 🙂

  37. @JL title of Poem is “The Thrill of The Chase” he stated this in one of his more recent interviews, I’ll see if I can find you the link…..

  38. All the following is my opinion. This is to all searchers who want to find the treasure instead of the chase. All the time you spend not trying to figure out the poem is wasted time. Believe me when I tell you all hints in the world are not worth one clue in the poem. If you think the poem is close to impossible , then you are going the wrong way about it. I will bet any searcher that a kid has a better chance of solving the poem than her, or him. Do not make the poem as if it were an unsolvable mystery. I know that when someone posts something like this they are open to attack, but I feel most of you are not focusing on the poem. Weird thing about the poem the more you want to solve it the harder it gets. Just relax, have a drink(only at home, and if you are not planning to drive, and if you are of age), go to the park and think about the poem but in simpler terms. Nothing is what it seems. RC.

    • Why do I feel so dumb when someone explains so well how easy the poem is? I should have know from the start all I need was a few drinks, go to the park feed the pigeons, and it would all come to me, Yep the poem was written so a child could understand…

      Don’t think I’m “attacking” you JC… You haven’t stated anything for anyone to even give a rebuttal on. Seriously how does anything you said help in anyways? Maybe it just me… ya already got one person to agreed with what you said.

      • i’m confused…as usual…should we drink and then walk to a park or wait until we get to the park and then start drinking? what if there are no pigeons? i have a pigeon call somewhere in my hunting gear..don’t ask me why

    • So with all due respect RC, is the treasure buried, in water? You can be as vague as possible… curiosity is killing me. IMO

      • @ Chesney: If you really want to find the treasure go to an elementary school and ask to talk to the principal. Tell him, or her there is a poem you would like the kids to decipher, but do not say it is to find a treasure. Offer to pay $100. or even $1000. to whoever can solve it. I will bet you they will be able to solve it for you. Our minds have been polluted with our prejudice and cannot think in simple terms. Do this and you will have a shot at the gold. The poem is so simple that an adult has a hard time trying to solve it. To answer your question I think the treasure is buried. RC.

        • @RC… I do not have the chest in my paws, but I sway more to it either being under water or on dry land hidden under a rock or obstructed from plain sight in some fashion. Mr. Fenn said no special tools are needed, before the metal detector question was asked. I personally think if a person is observant they can find it. All IMHO

  39. Is anyone else nervous that tonights show will reveal the treasure found? Or maybe there will actually be a new clue revealed? Dal, any thoughts? Opinions? Are my nerves for not?

    • wow…that would be cool if it were found. I watch this show quite a bit, and i’ve yet to see the host find anything.

    • I certainly am not worried that anyone has found the chest. I think it will just be a fun story about different ways to look for the chest and different interpretations of the poem and different personalities looking for it..

      • I agree Dal, everyone perceives things differently. I wish I was where I was able to watch it. Perception is exactly why Indulgence is still out there. IMO… So much for searching any longer this year…. think it is about curtains!!!

      • Well that would be treasure enough for me 🙂 I will calm my nerves, pour myself a root beer and enjoy the show! You East coasters may get to see it first, if there is a good clue in there you will have a time advantage 😉 Lets remember to be super supportive to our fellow searchers, they are awesome to share their stories on the show. Dal, any thoughts on a thread for people to comments on the show?

    • All 42 min of the Expedition Unknown were charming. Nice to watch the commercial version on Amazon this am before going to tame bears all day.

      Laughed several times and a few warm fuzzies too when I saw the Wright family. Cute kids #treasurebeat

      Best to all of the searchers past, present and future. Stay warm!

  40. So RC if you have solved the poem why have you not gone and gotten the treasure? If it were me, I would be on the next plane to somewhere. I don’t care if there is ten feet of snow on the ground.

    • I have a solve for the poem as well but cannot just up and go look for it. Takes time and money, neither of which I have right this moment. Besides, after 5 years of people looking even if it’s the correct solve (which I doubt), it can wait till April. If the TC is not there (most likely) I’ll still have a great week long trip with a good buddy.:)

        • @Gregorious: There is only one solve. The correct one, and many, many more. Now, you decide which one you have. RC

          • RC, I am in no way criticizing your solve. I am actually very interested in it. I am only wondering why you haven’t gone after the treasure. You agreed with me above that if you knew where the treasure was you would be on the first flight. So I am wondering since you have solved the poem why you haven’t gone and gotten the treasure. Is there another solve or layer to the poem?

          • gregorious-

            I agree with ya, but don’t waist your time, i cant tell you how many people say the same thing, and come back EMPTY handed or eating Crow Pie-

            Keep on doing what you do, everyone has their own solution.


  41. So looked for the place to comment on the Travel Channel’s “Expedition Unknown.. ”
    Realized Josh Gates is a weenie! This guy got out of breath just trying to get into a little lifted jeep when filming “Captain Morgan’s lost gold” show. If he is the one that decided who the brightest searchers were…
    Well all I can say …haha what a weenie!

  42. No cable. Bummers. I’m a day late and a dollar short to the big Nov 18 Travel Channel event. Dal posted it’s on Amazon for $1.99 next day.

    • Well there is nothing there that is new to any of us veteran searchers. Josh never really asks anything groundbreaking. But I do want to say that Katya Luce was such a refreshing sight to see in this episode. A very high spirited woman which a positive attitude. While I don’t know if she can find the chest, it’s my sincerest hope that she is the one that does, given her back story and the sheer adventure in her heart. I think that’s the kind of person Forrest would want to find the chest.

      • I agree with you Iron Will. Katya Luce has a good imagination and free spirit we can all relate too.

        • She is an admirable woman, and very brave! 🙂 perfect choice, as we’re the Wright girls…
          Forrest looked quite spry…

          • However my family is not on here. I’m sorry, I think I had a misplaced apostrophe above, it was a spell check error. I was complimenting the young girls, as well. 🙂

  43. Katya Luce really did make the segment she was featured in, Iron Will! – A positive plus for sure.

  44. I had a big question while watching the show and I am looking for folks talking about it but can’t find a discussion. When the host concluded that the treasure must be close to Santa Fe because Forrest’s wife had never suspected he hid it; what does everyone make of that.

    For the host to make that conclusion he is claiming that Forrest’s wife said she never suspected Forrest hid it AND that she knows he never went on a long trip. Do we know that either (or more importantly both) of these are true? Did the host only know the first point and then just assumed Forrest never went on a long trip?

    I know a lot of folks have been at this much longer than me and everyone searching significantly north of Santa Fe must either disagree with the host or be interested in where potentially new information came from.


    • TW,
      Think this…if they were on vacation, visiting relatives, just had lunch and F decides to go “for a drive” or “fishing”, took the treasure and hid it, and returned in time for supper, Peggy would have no inkling that f hid it. They have relatives in Montana.
      Josh was looking at one aspect, that f left home to roam as he does and hid it, then came back, in one day.
      That is just one of many scenarios.
      Just, imo, the “how” of it doesn’t matter, nor what kind of car he drove, what yr it was hid, if he wore his slippers…it’s the poem. Killing your brain trying to pull an answer out of someone’s assumption will usually be wrong. Alot of searchers have commented on the distance, time, possible route F took, I for one, but I know the answers are in the poem. At least the ones that count!
      A clutter of useless info just clouds the objective! Imo

      • Donna,
        “A clutter of useless info just clouds the objective! Imo”

        I agree. I also think all of the information that is wrong and taken out of context has dirtied the waters also.

        The truth is in the poem and its not going to be easy but if you are willing to try and try again you just may be the deserving person to claim the solve. It will be difficult but not impossible tells me there are many trails that you will travel before you find the right one. You never have failed until you give up! IMO


    • TW,

      I finally got to watch the program last night and heard the host share that and wondered about it as well. Did he actually talk to Peggy? If he did, he did it off camera. Until this is vetted I would put it under the heading of “hearsay”. It might be so and at first blush it seems logical, but we really do not know Mr. Fenn’s habits. Until the chest is found this line of thinkiing is speculative at best.

      Hope this helps,

      • I finally got to watch it as well. I watched it with my mother-in law. She thought the host Josh was the cutest thing ever and she is going to start recording his shows… 🙂 I thought it was a great show everyone seemed to be having a lot of fun out in nature. My favorite part was the camerman finding the nail clippers… 🙂

    • FF was on the broad of trustees for the Buffalo Bill Center in Cody from around 2001 to 2013. I sure has made trips for meetings on many dates. He could have had flown with a friend and driven a rental car out to the hiding spot in a few hours and never been missed. IMO a very possible trip that his wife would not suspect him of hiding anything.

      • I see a very big problem with this scenario, how could he get all that gold trough airport security without them knowing? maybe his wife wouldn’t of known that way but lots of other untrusting people could of found out a risk Fenn would not of taken. All of this does make me think of a question Fenn was asked that he wouldn’t answer and that question is did Fenn rent a car to secret the chest? I rememmber the reason why he said he wouldn’t answer that question.

        • Count, Small airports and private planes don’t go through security checks like commercial planes. FF wasn’t flying himself at the time to the best of my knowledge. He has friends that do, such as the one that flew him to Suzanne Summers party. So there would not be any security problems.
          As far as the rental car, I believe that the comment he made was something like he consider the issue quite a bit and the reason that he hasn’t said when he hid it, is that he didn’t want anybody looking at how far he had driven a truck or car. Check out the molby dickens bookstore interview. IMO of course. A few bags and some fishing gear could hid it pretty easy I think.
          He has talked about flying into Lander and going to the Popo Agie river, and that he would like his grand-daughter to do old time House Call Doctoring in a small town like Lander. Just a thought. (sinks canyon has been mentioned here before which os near there.)

          • small airport and private plane could of been a possiblity but there is still risk there and Fenn doesn’t seem like someone to take that much risk when it comes to the chest or the chase any little problem could of left him exposed IMO.

      • He also had that foundry, a bit far fetched, but it could even be inside a statue that he installed in broad daylight in the center of a busy town square and nobody would have known any better. As long as it was “Abstract Art” of whatever medium technically it is by definition “not associated with a structure”. How fun would that be? To have your final resting spot a bronze sculpture you poured yourself into and the workers didn’t even know when they came in later and polished you all up. Haha.

        It’s Possible. That’s all im saying.

        • This in my opinion…Jamie…
          He said if the cancer came back or althimers, he would throw himself on the chest…but in the middle of town?! He did say Skip should have been buried standing up! I like the way you think!
          Lol! That’s a great imagination, just what is needed to solve the mystery!
          You go, girl!
          ¥Peace ¥

  45. So years ago a little bird told me a secret.. I didnt believe this secret until another little bird said yes this secret is true and i have one too. So both little birds have a secret. Then the secreter again told another and another.
    Since, four more little birds have told me the secret that was told to them by the secreter .. How many secrets are there ? Not sure.. But can you guess how many I have?

    First person to answer correctly, Ill send em a crisp $100.00 bill

    Email answer too

    Yes this is related to TTOTC
    The secret will be wrote on the 100.00 bill

    • Which would also make me think that the original secret, if it was told to many birds, consecutively to the next bird by the previous bird, then you maybe looking at a “telephonegame” scenario, and the original secret has been tainted with false information.



    • Five bird, two different secret told… with 0 secret, as they all know what the other knows.

      • correction 6 bird.. the original bird who started the secret to the bird that told you the secret [ 3 ] the second bird that confirm the first secret and told you another secret [ 2 secrets 4 bird and two others who know the first secret… two different secrets and a total of six birds with 0 secrets because ya’ll know what the other knows…

        Did I guess correct? if so, donate the 100 bill to Wolf’s charity. I’d just blow it on dinner anyways.

    • Figuring out the specific wording is quite difficult to both offer a reply AND keep in the rules but I think I might have a way around this seemingly logical paradox…..I wonder if you can keep your word on the $100 as well.

      The answer for $100 is “No. I cannot guess”

      “No” I can’t guess how many secrets you have because if I did and you said I was right it would make it not a secret so then the number would change and my guess would then be wrong.

      Same with the bird that told you in the beginning. It actually told you a non secret because as soon as it opened it’s mouth it wasn’t a secret.

      None of the birds told a secret, they all told a “former secret”. For this reason I can’t both guess how many and be correct no matter what as your secrets are yours alone. However…you asked if we could “guess how many” and I think I found a solid correct answer that fits all logical clauses

      “No. I cannot guess how many. And that was never a secret at all”

      🙂 Please leave that crisp $100 nice and blank because while not I, or anyone else, can hear your secret and maintain the truth of these words (since the secret disappears in passing it) I certainly can keep it a secret AND keep it safe by asking not to know at all. especially for $100,

      Would you like my address now? I emailed a copy of this as well- Should I send my address as well?

      How’d I do?

      • Im keeping my word, if i had a 1000 i wldve put that on the table.. Cause posting this riddle .. Is Worth every penny.
        when I send the money, ill let everyone know who it was

    • **”Cheep! Cheep! Pssssst….I think she just did….check line three of your poem…cheep!”

      -mr bluebird on your shoulder

      ** it’s the TRUTH! It’s the TRUTH!

  46. 3 secrets. You said the first secret was confirmed by the second bird “A secret”. Then the secreter told another(secret not bird) and another(secret not bird). I’d have to guess here, but instead of it being the same secret it is possibly new ones. So therefore, the first secret told to bird one and two is the same. Then there are two new secrets told to other birds. My answer is 3 secrets.

    • All the little birdies go ..tweet tweet tweet… Therefore there are no secrets.
      Thanks for your help!

      • You have many secrets and we all have a secret about that you would not accept because you must have visual and auditory hallucinations. No offense meant at all, just a jestful response to your poem since I just sent my solve too late for consideration.

      • Sweettea,
        Sounds like there was a secret, you just don’t speak bird . Therefore its still a secret.

    • Hi Stephanie,
      I know it is too late but to compare notes I ended up with only one secret using this logic:
      Secrets are not just info held by one by definition.
      Bird 1 shared secret#1, bird #2 confirms it and adds another secret#2, Secreter (bird 1) shared that secret to many others making secret#1 no longer a secret. Leaving one secret.

  47. Thanks for all your help in solving my riddle…
    The answer was Zero, “Wolf” was the first to answer correctly. He asked that I donate to the Cancer Society and I did so this morning!

    • What’s up with that? I emailed you as soon as you posted that riddle and said zero. Your response was “then the secreter told another and another..”

      Sounds like someone didn’t want their secret getting out.

      • You did and a few others did too i jus didnt read yours first. I mentioned the secreter to you because you said they were all the birds secrets, but the secreter was never called a bird and yet told secrets to another and another…
        That is the only reason i replied about that.
        Then you sent me another one saying you wanted to change your answer! 🙂
        Check your email.

        • My point is that you said zero was wrong. You changed your mind about sharing the secret. Did someone make it worth your while to keep quiet?

          • No, I never said zero was wrong.. I quoted the riddle. Look at the email again. I quoted ” the secreter told another and another”
            In reply to your statement that they were all birds. You drew your own conclusion from this response.
            If you know zero is the correct answer why do you keep asking me for the secret?. As you said yourself, i have “zero” secrets. 🙂

          • Amusing is what it is. I’m sure many here cry fowl and can guess your chick secrets. No need to say more.

          • Tom,

            Get over it.

            I responded with one word. That word was “zero”. I wasn’t first. I didn’t win.

            The winner was a charity.

            All is fair. All is good.

            Scott W.

    • Thank you Sweettea for generously supporting cancer research. You are a Sweetie! Thank you Seeker for the suggestion you guys are all making a difference!

      For anyone else who would like make a donation to cancer research I will send you my book “Finding Forrest Fenn” you may donate here:

      • Hey Wolf- is there an option for cancer research here in the US on there somewhere? Or all the money automatically goes to Canada where the tab shows?

        • Jamie,
          That fund is a special research fund I set up in the province of Saskatchewan. I thought it was appropriate since Fenn related it to a clue.

          However if you feel more comfortable donating in your own country you can give to the American Cancer society which proves patient care as well. Thank you for supporting a great cause.

    • Just worndering does that mean there is 100 bill out there with this secret on there for anyone that finds it gets to read? money makes its way around

        • Lmao tom. Certainly the answer must now be a minimum of 2 then…. Cause zero was wrong since the number of the correct answer was a secret at the time, so that’s one right there- even though the birds didn’t tell her. And now why to change the terms from first to email to first she decided to open is 2….and surely her motives make 3…. So I’m sticking with my original answer of “No. I can’t guess” being the only logical correct answer. With the footnote of “I wonder if you’ll be able to keep your word” as #2. Lmao.

        • Hey Tom you must be a hoot to play Canasta with! If it makes you feel any better, that $100 bill was donated directly to charity.

          However if you feel that strongly about setting a fair standard, I suggest you put up $100 and show everyone how to run a fair contest.

          Your secret concept did give me an idea. I am going to reveal the secret of the $100 bill to Sweetea for being so generous. I hinted about it in my book but why not, since Sweetea was so generous. But to be fair I will give you a hint – “Autobiographers always lean toward the subject” Now even Mr. Fenn is sweating, 😉

          The Wolf

          • I posted my response on the Odds and Ends thread. I have no problem not winning. She has a secret about the TTOTC from the secreter and obviously lied that zero was the answer was my only point. Carry on. Glad you have a great cause Wolf. Don’t let getting the donation be the reason you can’t see what I’m saying.

    • Sorry Ritt and the others complaining about all the nonsense on the nine clues page; I’ve been busy, I still work for a living.

      @Wolf; you have your own page to peddle your book.

      @Sweettea; Your secret contest belongs on the odds and ends page or someplace else; certainly not on the nine clues page. I did find it funny reading through the comments; sounds like you sent the obsessive ones into orbit. Interesting who showed up to comment, some folks will do anything for a hundred bucks.

      Anyway I’ll nuke any more comments on the secret subject; back to the nine clues.

  48. All,
    IMO, the phrase, “Not far, but too far to walk.” is one of the nine clues.
    IMO, it has a dual meaning:
    First, a distance, perhaps (using a hemibel estimate) more than 10 miles, but less than 100 miles; so about 30 miles.
    Second, a hint that some mode of transportation other than walking would be appropriate.
    Has anyone else come to a similar conclusion?
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • First off…Goofy, I did comment “5”, but am not any more obsessive than the other bloggers here obsessing over the treasure, you too! I could care less about $100, and glad it went to charity, altho I think some one really acted like they wanted it!
      ☆☆☆On 9 clues topic:
      Geoff, I too, feel tftw is a clue, F said there were several in that stanza. I think it is closer to ten miles.
      As far as the mode of transportation, F said he drove there, and knew of no other route to the hiding spot (other than the one he took) that he knew of. I don’t know if he flew there and then drove, but I don’t think, imo, he took a boat/raft/bike, because of his car comment.

    • Or it’s a name. Can you walk 10 days? What about 10 sleeps?

      It’s really not far, but the natives named it “Ten Sleep” because that’s how many nights they spent on the way.

      Now if there was just a place called Ten-Sleep Canyon…..

      Oh well, back to sleep-walking.

      Scott W

        • My gut tells me it’s related to F’s war for him. It changed him.
          I can’t explain it yet, but have been working on looking “AT” the poem, thanks Mindy, and I see something there in the definition of its layout and foundation.
          Eyes that look deep in the soul find truth, whether they like it or not. F put his soul out there for us to “read”, in his poem.
          His end is his beginning. And the beginning at the end, is bigger than the journey to the end.
          ¥Peace ¥

          • Donna, I usually agree with most of your comments, but where did ff say that there was only one way to get there. IMO the poem gives us the directions to get there, and there is only “one solve” to it by all means. But if you solve the poem and know where it is hidden, then you can drive to the spot that ff parked and walk to the treasure.
            For instance, I live in a town south of Dallas. If I told some one to take hwy I45 north and the go west on I20 then north on hwy 360 and stop where there are a lot of “flies” and you figured out that I was talking about DFW airport . You could get there by any other route and still be at the right place.

    • Geoff,

      Smart-alec short answer is “yes”.

      I suspect distance is more of the matter, not mode of transport. We all know that a car was used. In other places on this blog bicycles, boats, rafts and canoes have all been discussed and pretty much rejected. (Even rolling luggage cases.)

      I also suspect this is the reason most of us think that the poem takes you there but that there are other ways of getting to the chest – a short-cut, if you will. Forrest knows the short-cut and seems to be sending us “the long way around”. He planted the treasure, his rules.

      Wherever it is, a person is not likely to stumble upon the spot – which is why the poem is needed.

      All in my opinion.

  49. Not Obsessed, he answered a question in his Moby Dickenson interview, (not exact words)- How many ways can you get to the treasure? As in was there 3 diff roads a river etc. He replies there was only one way that he knew of. This was after he told about driving there, hiding it.
    I think you were not understanding what I was pointing out. He could have flown to say, Cody WY, rent a car and drove to the treasure location, then walked it in. Geoff was talking about doing something besides walking, (say horesbacking-biking-4wheeler) after driving there and parking. I guess you could. But I put what F did, walk, after he parked his car.
    You are right too, if I followed a poem to your “fllies”, I could take loop 12 north to 183 west to DFW. I have a home in Irving!
    Sorry for the confussion.

    • Just to add facts – there is also a small prop-job airport at W. Yellowstone, so not only could one begin at Cody, this could also fit your scenario that F. flew in, drove, then walked.

      Best regards,

      • Tim, Donna and all,

        When I first stated this chase I was of the “car only” mindset, mainly because I am not a pilot. I agree that he could have “piggy-backed” the hiding of Indulgence along with any trip he would have made to any of the four states. Whoever was flying him (and others possibly) to any place where he could borrow or rent a car to make the stash may have been totally unaware of the (mother) load he had in his baggage. He’s cagey like that, so I see this as a real possibility.

        If we stop for a moment to reflect on his memoirs we know that he tripped over the headstone after asking another pilot friend to take him back to a spot he had seen from the air. Maybe if someoone were to fly over where the stash is now it looks inviting to a pilot. Perhaps it is in opening in the forest as well. Maybe this is an opening into Forrest as well.

        It could be anywhere. If a person were to have had the foresight to follow Forrest as he lived out his life during the hiding period, we could rule out areas. But to my knowledge, no one did that so all we have is the poem to puzzle out.

        All in my opinion,

        • I agree….an aerial view could help….not that F. used anything like that. But my team has thought about using a drone on our next trip, for that extra step.

          Shoot might as well…as I know it won’t hurt the hunt.

          Now all I need to do before March is to buy a drone with a camera, learn how to use it and the I’ll be all set. :o)

          I hope I’m a fast learner….I have used RC cars before, so that probably helps….LOL


        • Does anyone know if Fenn ever had to make an emergency landing in the Rockies? Just a thought but were I a pilot and had to ditch or land in a field…I would probably consider that a pretty special spot. Any landing you can walk away from…right?

      • I like the idea of him flying to the tresure location but wanted to add that you don’t always need a proper airport to land a small plane. Some people just have a flat road on their property where you can land and take off….

        • Hey Spalliesing….I agree. I was also just thinking that a flight plan may be accessible as well. I don’t know those things, because it sounds like a lot of paperwork, and I’m not one to do that at this time, but I eliminated it, because he seems to honest and sincere about the whole thing. Non-chalant is modesty.

          Also if you think about the entire time it would take to travel in an airplane from SF to Cody or W. Yellowstone, in flight time it is about four hours. Imagine this time line….rough as it is….all could be done with just saying….”Hey honey, I’m gonna go have some fun with my airplane.” His wife could’ve been busy for the day with her own tasks.

          6am – drive to airport SF airport
          6:30am – get in airplane and fly to MT/WY region
          11:00am – arrive in MT/WY

          “Begin where warm waters halt”

          …Now for the next six to eight hours, F. drives to the region and then walks to and from the spot, and then walks back to his car…..which IMO becomes his reflection on the last eight lines of the poem, that which I believe may include at least two clues.

          To voice my opinion of those clues I think are embedded in the phrases, and they are “Your effort will be worth the cold” (possible seasonal reference – either Spring or Fall) and “if you are brave and in the wood” (wild forest – but not as wild as a safety concern is completely eliminated.

          Cheers and good luck!

          • Lol… there’s my missing “ing” does that mean I am just being myself… 🙂

            Tim, a four hour flight seems awfully long I would think someone would notice he was gone…

          • I don’t think so at all. In fact if you take the four hour flight time and the hour to 1,5 hours drive time and then throw in a safe number of four hours treasure hiding time…less than 12 hours expended, and includes many of F. sayings….
            – I did it in an afternoon
            – I laughed as I walked back to my car
            – all you need is a sandwich, bottle of water and possibly a flashlight.
            + with him including the flashlight, could reflect he was nearing twilight and the more inexperienced seekers may find it to come in handy….from my point of view… “As a matter if fact”. Just keeping it simple, just like F said.

          • I find this interesting about airports, landing strips, open fields, flight plans, time away from his wife…

            It seems fenn had made many trips on his own for many reasons. work, fishing, visiting etc. so it is almost impossible to retrace his foots steps. Why some think he wouldn’t leave home for an overnight trip or even a week getta way… just seems to be the norm.

            We have not been told the exact timeline but it’s been said 2009 – 2010… fenn [ referring to; don’t go where a 79 or 80 year old…] and he didn’t have is pilot license at that time [ IF I’m not mistaken ] But to just drive almost anywhere during that same timeline doesn’t surprise me in the least.

          • You said “he didn’t have a pilot license back then”. Do you have a link to this if it is a fact.

            I know…look for the link in the many subs on the site……got it…..*smiles*…..

            Dal needs a search engine installed. I’m not any IT guy, so I couldn’t help. That would be soooo cool though.

            Anyhow, if you have a link to where F said this, I’d be appreciated.


          • Tim,

            Like I said “if I’m not mistaken”
            I don’t keep all of what fenn has stated or what other know for fact, such as the pilot license. I do know he gave it up, and in fact he was flow to a dinner party by his relative who does fly, at Suzanne Summers place in CO. I also recall fenn sold his plane as well… I don’t keep these types of info, as I see no real need or even helpful information to solving the poem.

            My point is, the conversation of flying the chest somewhere is not going to help solve the poem… In fact, imo knowing he drove to where he hid the chest doesn’t matter as well. I can come up with a 100 scenarios for a long trip away from home, and yet not one would help me to find the chest. If one is going to search for the chest. I have heard scenarios… he drove from his home one hour north… he flew to W. Yellowstone… he went to the location by car and road a bike to the hide and walked back to the car, He use a kayak… a horse… a quad…

            I just see a whole lot of guessing and hoping for something to fit a solution, and not much thinking about how the poem tells us to find the chest.

            Oh right…imo

  50. SWWOT, F did say he knew of no other way in. So, the poem was direct to the treasure, and I have to disagree with your opinion that “Forrest knows the short cut” . I heard him say he wasn’t aware of any other way. It’s in the video.
    But, you are entitled to your opinion, I respect that.

    • Donna,

      I think we are saying the same thing/seeing things a bit differently – it’s a semantical (false) problem. You would have to agree that for any given point in space there are three axes that describe it/define it to a particular spot in space. if you are following this line of thought, any point can be “accessed” from any direction. While that’s all great in theory, the real world has limitations – ie, we cannot suspend the law of gravity to move large objects out of the way of our line to reach the final point.

      Further, I cannot conceive of any point on earth that is not accessible from any other point on earth – hence, there can be more than one way to go from point a to point b.

      Lastly, I am in full agreement and fully understand the ramifications that Forrest has said that there is only one way to get to the chest. For me, this simply means that the final stretch, however long that is, is a one way journey. Getting to that final stretch is a 360 degree problem. The poem helps us get to the final stretch – in my opinion – which then gets us to indulgence.

      Parenthetically, if there was really “only one way to get to the treasure” then none of us could find it, because we are all starting from different points on the earth’s surface. I think you now see my point – that we are all starting from different points to get to the place in the wood where we take those final steps to Indulgence. Both sentiments can be mutually exclusive and true at the same time. it’s not an either/or situation.

      Hope this helps,

      • SWEOT, yes, I understand exactly what you are saying!
        You sound like my psych professor!
        Your brilliant mind is VERY refreshing, and in this point, imo, 100% correct! 🙂

  51. (Sorry…i meant SWWOT) Let me add, to simplify it…
    Yes, we all reach the area from all over the world, to the first clue where we begin. From there, it’s a one way route to the treasure!

    I need more coffee!

  52. If this has been discussed before I apologize but I don’t recall anyone ever talking about this. I posted this hear because if I’m correct it will reveal a lot about one of the clues in my opinion.

    A few weeks ago someone made a comment about Fenn’s talk at the Moby Dickens bookstore. I clicked on the link they gave to check if it was legit. I was also working doing other things at the time and just let the video keep playing.

    I wasn’t watching it, just listening to it in the background while I was working. All of a sudden I said to myself, “what did he just say”. He was talking quickly and kind of mumbling when he said it. So I listened to it again and thought why haven’t I heard this before. I thought nah he didn’t say that; I have now officially joined the ranks of the crazy people hallucinating clues.

    I asked my wife to listen to it. I played it for her a few times but she didn’t hear what he said until I pointed it out to her. So, I still didn’t know if he actually said it; was she experiencing confirmation bias after I told her what to listen for? I decided to shelve it for a few days and come back with a fresh set of ears to listen to it.

    I forgot about it until this morning when someone posted a comment about the Moby Dickens bookstore talk. So I listened again and he still says it, at least to my ears.

    So will someone, or a few of you, please listen very closely to the video and settle this argument I’m having with myself. This is not a trick or a big secret or anything. I will post what I think he says after I get a few responses; I just don’t want to bias anyone by saying what I think he says up front.

    It’s only a couple seconds; transcribe what you think he says between 5:10 and 5:12 in the video and let me know exactly what you think he says. I appreciate your time; even if it proves I’ve gone nuts.

    Here’s the link:

    • Goofy – Dickens Book Shop, 11022013: Time stamp 5:10- 5:12. As I hear it IMO….”and, an, when I hid it and was walking back to my car I started laughing out loud……”

      • Yes, he had a “hole” card. We know what that means in poker and how it could relate to his using it as a metaphor in regard to hiding the chest, but could that also mean he put the TC in a hole? 🙂

        • CJ –

          I hope it means he buried it ……….LOL I think the whole sentence needs to be looked at.

          “…..but I had a hole card and knew I could go back and get it.”

          Well, if he buried it – he would not only have to do the treck again (which he said was perhaps beyond him at this point” but also dig it up. No – he won’t do that – he’s having too much fun watching us struggle.

        • His metaphor for “hole card” is: If his elaborate plan didn’t work out, e. g, no one bought his story or books he could always go back to get the TC, or if he changed his mind before publishing TTOTC. That is a big hole card! But, I suppose if he needed to for some unforeseen (emergency)reason, he could even go back and get it now.
          Although, his legacy would go to (you know where), hxxx.

          It does sound like he says “hit instead of hid”, but we all know he meant hid.

          • Ritt,

            I supposed you could be write…

            I think the hole card refers to ” most atrocious thing I ever did” comment. and felt he could go back and get it later. Why would this act be atrocious? { using the most common definition of the word }

            He planned this out over a long period of time. Yes we know he took many years to revise the poem, but what Planning was done? physical? timing an event or just timing itself?

            Buy a chest… fill it with possessions… write a poem with clues… write a book… open a publishing company…make arrangements for sole sale of the book… open charity fund [ either by him or the book store themselves… take the chest to the hide… make two trips in one afternoon… Is this all that was needed? was there something else needed to be planned out?

            Remember, he ruined the story by surviving…

          • Well here we are again learning. I never knew what a hole card was. So, is that where the term “ace in the hole” comes from???

          • When playing certain games of poker, 4 cards are dealt face up and one face down – that is the “hole” card. Many times you would wish for an “Ace in the hole” if it could mean you would win the hand. 🙂 There may be other ideas of where that expression came from but that is the one I’m familiar with.

      • I second that, 4 cards and a joker makes for 5 cards.

        Community card poker refers to any game of poker that uses community cards (also called “shared cards” or “window cards”), which are cards dealt face up in the center of the table and shared by all players. In these games, each player is dealt privately an incomplete hand (“hole cards”), which are then combined with the community cards to make a complete hand.

    • Are you referring to the “hold card” statement. Factor in the mumbling and a slight accent and i hear “but i had a hold card” which is like an ace in the hole. A poker term for having a somewhat secret card to play that will help you win. It is often used when people talk about having some sort of back up plan or idea that would give them an edge or help them win. “he seemed so confident despite the odds against us…he must have a hold card.” Are you interested in the phrase due to his reference in the book about 4 cards and a joker? Maybe an application in a solve?

    • Well it’s unanimous. I’ve lost it and fallen off into the dark, endless expanse of imagination where I see and hear things that simply aren’t there and clues are everywhere. It had to happen sooner or later…….after awhile the asylum seems normal.

      I’m gonna go have a Mexican omelette with biscuits and gravy in an attempt to regain my sanity. Maybe a couple of the women at the restaurant can spare a few xanax to calm me down. 🙂

      What I hear him say is “and when I headed north walking back to my car”.

      • LOL… went back for another listen… “…when i hid it, i was walking back to my car…”

        No worries on the asylum, It seems to have a revolving door to the place.

      • Goofy – that’s too funny! You have a wild imagination. You just joined the ranks of the Fenn imagineers who see clues everywhere! 🙂

        • Wish we could find that asylum door, Just sitting here with Jack has my head spinning. Jack believes the joker is lying near the window seat. This is only my opinion and I slightly disagree with Jack. To stay on topic, I listened good, but heard something entirely different.

      • Goof-
        Maybe your browser cache needs cleaning…
        Sounds like it has a line stored from an old Wagon Train episode…

        • HA! If you squint your ears.

          I don’t think he would make a slip up like that. That would make canyon down mean south if he headed north after hiding the treasure.

          I know it’s crazy but that’s what I hear…….Proof positive of how delusional our brain can be.

          I don’t think I’ll be throwing out any solutions where the canyon down heads a different direction than south just yet. 🙂

          • Well Goofy, Let me throw a curve ball at south [ as a direction on a map ].

            We have been told searcher have two clues correct, because fenn was told where they were, but the searchers didn’t know. As well as they all went by… walked by… hop skipped and jump pass the other seven clues.

            I have been thinking about buried vs hidden and why no real explanation. Could it be legal? Just too much of a clue? or is this something we “need” to solve ourselves?

            IF buried, could the first two clues put you at or very near the correct location and canyon down is the action we must manual do? Fenn’s original plan was to go and take it all with him. The ” leave my bone” part. Is the chest buried and we are to retrieve it and finish the ceremony [ so to speak ] and leave the bones?

            A blaze can refer to a trail marker. Could the Marker be something else?

          • Good questions Seeker. Wish I had some good answers for you. Some are certain it’s buried, some are certain it’s not. I don’t know.

            I try not to prequalify a solution based on uncertainties. The blaze could be anything. I’ve had lots of great ideas that fell completely apart after further investigation.

        • What’s a mexican omelette? Am I to believe that biscuits and gravy may exist inside this mythical beast??? How have I lived until now?? I think think I too just entered this dreamlike fugue of which you speak…whoa….

    • Hey Goof- did you hear (sorry if already discussed also) but when he’s explaining why he doesn’t want to say if/when rental car he calls himself the wrong name? NO CONSPIRACY or MISHEARING i swear. Listen he says (I don’t want people going to look up) when old FESTER Fenn (rented a car) he almost spills his drink as his jumps and glances at all his bearings in shock of hearing himself. I, no doubt google the heck out of fester fenn and festervends afterwards…but still? Ones own name isn’t usually a word one trips over. Interesting kinda I guess.

      • Jamie, I remember the one where he talked about the rental car, but I don’t recall him having trouble with his name. I’ll find that video and re-listen to it.

  53. “When I took,{pause} when I hid the treasure chest I had to make two trips, because the thing weighs 42lbs, it’s small but gold is heavy”

    [ note gold sounds like coal ] [as well as in this same video Blog sounds like bog]
    There were many words through out this that seemed a pronounce slightly off, yet all in all, i see nothing out of the ordinary but a man looking for the write words to say…

    I’m interested what your ears heard Goofy.

  54. Imagine that the narrator is the Treasure (or someone lying beside it), calling out to seekers on distant ridges to come and find it, to learn the wisdom within its new and old riches.

    The given landmarks to its location are existential and metaphorical, but they’re a hindsight view of a journey already taken to it’s end. The sojourner will need foresight to recognize them.

    I think WWWH is where education begins…. I kinda think it’s a threshold place, like a military or university location.

    The sentences about Cancer in TTOTC are all in brown ink…. HOB may be a sad or deadly place.

    You probably imagine it differently.

    • OC2,

      Can you explain WWWH is where education begins? I see your connection to “education”… university etc. But I’m confused on the metaphorical use to the Where warm waters halt, that gets you to education.

      • Check Brown vs. Board of Ed seeker….unless you’re bored of ed…then slide down the fire escape then you’re boredom browns your bottom 😉

        • WWWH= the fire escape. See smoke? Look down- Pull handle/grab hammer/break glass/initiate shower system 🙂 don’t say I never offered something useful. It’s a huge one

          • Well in this case, I guess, if I was trying to use it for education one use of “waters” is “sprinklers” as in watering plants etc. Once the sprinklers halt the fire, in schools, on the big US fire safety boards you have to learn and stuff it’s a “Warm Fire” because it’s still dangerous so the kids/teachers do a “Warm Fire Assesment” before remaining kids go to the escape route/door/ slide and leave school.

            If I was using it for a different route with education I might use Brown vs. Board and the warm waters being the heated debate, the canyon as the vers , and below Brown as Board of Education….I’d use that if I was more balancing the poem though so it might give me an instruction like “Equal Rights” so I’d find to equal rights. In this case maybe use the two “Just”‘s which means Right. And find what they had in common, or “equal”. It’s hard to say not knowing where their solve started to know what suggestions to offer.

            He asked how it might relate to education so those were off the top of my head. Maybe they blow. I don’t know.

        • Jamie I did for the fun of it. Here’s the thing, “No U.S. history” needed. I would guess a legal statue or case law would fall in that line. But I read your other comment and thank you because it made me think… maybe not the way you intended, yet still gave me something to ponder.

          • That was just my stab at WWWH being the beginning of education if that was it…I don’t know that you’d really even need us history if you wanted to just make it the fire escape from the book…but it history may be helpful as a hint. Or maybe I just jumped in my head causa brown…either way just tossing out a guess to WWWH being start of education- him leaving school and heading for the woods. You still have brown in the pants, the fire escape, ditching ms ford to avoid hot water for not paying attention, free hall pass, I don’t know what warm water is in Spanish but I think he was leaving Spanish class so maybe a pun on that or a pun on leaving ford, or just water halting as in ‘skipping’ and skipping class, water free fire escape vs. Alarming. I don’t know. Just brainstorming random stuff tonight lol

      • Seeker, Sorry to be so late, sometimes a lot happens between my thoughts and my ‘send’, but here it is.

        The education I was speaking is not juvenile. Fenn’s own education is broad and deep, and allowing that “youth should be wasted on the young”, I think Fenn’s really begins in MY WAR FOR ME.

        Warm Waters is a good metaphor for innocent childhood and its forgivable mistakes. The TTOTC chapters of FIRST GRADE thru STOUT-HEARTED MEN are Warm Waters. MY WAR FOR ME is a cold shower.

        Marriage, children, responsibility, duty, honor, purpose, etc. (adulthood) rush in like the Cataracts of Ladore. Rarely do we recognize our thresholds of wisdom except from long-range hindsight. The first paragraph of EPILOGUE is a good example to re-read.

        IMO it is more likely, that at 80, the wise and educated Mr. Fenn would choose an educational site or military site (or symbol) to locate and characterize the ‘begin’ of his treasure hunt … rather than some jolly watery confluence. I suppose a case for a casino or a landfill could be made as well, but I think ff showed us repeatedly that education was a very big element in his life. It is a major theme in TTOTC.

  55. on what little information forrest gives us, i think we have to try to read between the lines and this is what i deduce

    (all that is below, in my opinion)

    for the last several years, all f has given us on the first couple clues is that some people have gotten them right .. “and i dont think they knew it”

    i dont think there is a connection between people who have gotten some of the clues correct and getting a certain distance from the treasure, like 500 ft or 200 etc.

    f has never tied those two together in a comment. one thing he’s told us directly is that those who’ve been closest (and he says he doesnt know of anyone closer than 200 feet), they didnt know that they were close. he does not acknowledge that they’ve even solved one clue.

    so getting back to the first couple clues, my read on that is that they are named locations. let’s say, using some random made up names, something like scalding hot water springs, or purple mountain, or blustery canyon. these are places on a map and it is possible for some to guess or make an educated guess, say they make a connection due to a hint in the book, and they say, i think purple mountain is one of the clues.

    they may visit and search around purple mtn, email F and tell him what they think. maybe they guessed correctly about scalding springs cuz its in the area. f says, ok they got these 2 clues right, but im not sure if they really know it.

    so my read on the 4 clues comment is, he isnt saying that anyone has gotten all 4 (altho that could be) but he is expanding on the first couple clues comments. he is saying that someone could have gotten any one of the first 4, by an educated guess, but he is not certain, because they are not certain

    the first 4 clues are named locations, and it is possible for any one of them to be guessed and named correctly by searchers. f is letting us know this, imo

    f’s comments on the blaze seem to be of a different nature. he says that people who try to start with the blaze are wasting their time. i think this means it is impossible, or nearly so, to even guess it correctly. this would mean the blaze isnt one of the first four clues, if i am interpreting correctly.

    the only time f suggested reverse engineering is possible is with the home of brown. i conclude it would have to be in the first 4, but not the first, if you can reverse from hob. if it is possible to name correctly, clue #2, 3, or 4, you could then figure out a preceding clue from that by proximity. but if fs comment means that the first 4 are the limit to making possibly correct educated guesses, then you wont be able to make educated guesses beyond that.

    i dont think any searchers are even going to know or think about the idea of reverse engineering because, they are saying to themselves, i see this location and that location hinted at. but if you dont have the clues solved for the poem path that is to be “followed precisely” (p132 ttoc) then you dont know that a location is actually location #2 possibly, or location #3 possibly, on the path

    Forrest has the clues in a defined order and he knows what that is, and so he answers questions and makes comments accordingly.

    i think when you get to the blaze, it wont be a named location on the map. finding it and knowing exactly where it is will be something different. you cant guess at it and i dont think that guessing correctly at a location just preceding it, will help you find it either. i think that you will have to solve the clues and have them in correct consecutive order leading up to it, to then figure out that part of it. if you can first identify the nature and >direction< of the path, it could help immensely to narrow it down, as well as indicate a pattern of deciphering the clues.

    • Fenn did say the didn’t know they had the first two clues and in another comment said, they may have gotten there by aberrations { fenn’s definition, something different } . Yet so far all have seem to pass the other seven clues… even if now 4 clues have been told or read by fenn, it still seems the searchers may not have know. The obvious question is Why? When the clues were to get easier as one solve a clue to another.

      The thing about “follow precisely” is; is it a path or instructions? Should it be a path, seems the ones who have been at the first two clues attempted to do just that, follow a path. Maybe they were needing to follow instruction instead. Either way they didn’t understand… what the significance is to the first clue[s]? This seems to be the question that needs answering.

      And I agree the Blaze may not be a name on a map… fenn has said, most of the places the clues refer to did exists when he was a kid [ that doesn’t say all the clues ]. If one reads the poem as nine individual clues, then 4 clues could be none places and 5 actual place. If another reads as instructions and see the poem as nine clues equal nine sentences and hints lead to clues… then most of the places could be 2 or 3 or 4.

      Guessing correctly of a clue, either by educational, book, aberrations, doesn’t seem to help in understanding why there. we’re all missing something.

      • Do you guys ever wonder if maybe that comment “a few focused (I forget word but remember it means wise) have found the first two clues and looked past the rest” isn’t maybe just paraphrasing the fourth stanza? It drives me crazy..

        “A few’ve been wise and found the blaze. Looked quickly down )went past the rest) your quest to cease”

        And then no exactly so suiting but it ends in take the chest and go in peace…and the only way I know we commonly ‘go in peace’ is ‘rest’

        So then take (erase) ‘the chest’ and you have ‘rest’ in peace.
        The ‘rest’ of the clues are in peace?…or the rest of the pieces? How do you take the rest of the pieces? Lay down maybe? like a lay down loner/and also rest in peace aka ‘lay down’? …I don’t have it quite right but I swear there’s something to it….and the “a few focused searchers” comment isn’t the first time a quote has paraphrased a line. I’m just free form brainstorming here…but it’s likea rubicks cube and you can see all the pieces I just can’t twist em together just right but I feel like it I could it would resolve itself internally into a distinct short word of phrase that is probably a clue. I know it sounds far fetched at first…and I am NOT normally a ‘poem purist’ but when I am I feel like can resolve/dissolve 2 of the stanzas into simple 2-3 word phrases based on language. Haven’t even found a beginning to 3 of them. And that one somehow I’ve started in the middle because I heard the quote as a hint and went from there. If anyone else likes to play with words like that or even can understand/has a bit of kindred spirit for the place that logic makes sense I’d love to work on trying to crack it down and see if there’s not something there.

        Maybe him paraphrasing the quote made me give it a little more weight as a possibility and it’s nothing too. I figure it can’t hurt to try of anyone’s interested.

        It’s also unique in
        Been Wise = Wisend
        Wise And = Wisend
        Found = created/create from
        The Blaze = mark of the beginning
        The beginning = the end you start at

        So if you have ‘Wisend’ created by starting at ‘end’ you have Endwise (or backwards?)


        Look quickly
        Quick= Wise (ala quick witted)
        Look Wisely Down (with wisely being endwise) would be “look up”

        I got nothing on third line.

        And last line is in beginning of post.

        Ugh. It’s complicated to explain and type but if your able to grasp what I’m saying the logic is really simple…and somewhat uncanny in how each word specifically in meaning and placement on the page modifies the second and that modifies the third etc…

        Am I just WAY off track here I’m not insulted if so– but every attempt I make at poem purism I end playing this game…does anyone else do the same or do I just play alone and the men in the white coats are my friends? Lol. Running in circles need reinforcement or encouragement to abort mission.

        • Or maybe “look quickly down”

          Look wisely/endwise ‘down’

          You look ‘up’ to the ‘down’ in the poem by canyon?

          Somebody shoot me please. Lol

          • ** and when I say he paraphrased the stanza… Not just “a few’ve been wise” but when they “looked past the rest” the looked past is “looked quickly down” and the “rest” isn’t 7 more’s the third clues beginning- literally the “rest” you get from “go in peace” “rest in peace”

            I mean how can that comment not be intentional genius which is fenn? It SCREAMS fenn to me..not only do words match but the physical places on the page match they looked “down” and passed the “rest”

            I can taste it I just can’t identify the flavor like my nose is plugged or something. But I know I recognise it as food. Hahaa

          • you may be saying a few things there jamie

            but maybe you’re just talking in circles

            F said hes been to that special place a few times

            and i think he said this too

            “I just looked “few” up and one definition is “scant.” Why do I sound like I’m talking in circles?”

          • So a few’ve been wise and looked down (which (endwise) is up to the word ‘down’ by the Canyon) and found scant? A scant canyon? Scantion? Isn’t that the metrical feet of a poem??

            Maybe it’s a circle…but maybe it’s a B-line to the finish!! You and me Yates– well go places, lemme count these feet…(which WOULD technically be feet…but the kind that’s ‘too far to walk’…which is coincidentally ‘down’ on line in the ‘scantion’ of the poem)? Hmmmm?

            I’m on it. Whatchu got next?

          • few = scant and scant = few

            but thats going in circles. how does that tell us anything

            maybe thats what f meant by going in circles. some might call it circular logic
            you can also say its the poem being self referential. some deep thinkers believe the poem is self referential. but some might also say its not because a circle doesnt get you anywhere

            the question is, is there some other information being given that doesnt make it completely circular. magic 8 ball sez “signs point to yes”

            another example ..

            treas ur bold = wood you are brave

            but thats just another circle. hmm, sorry guess thats not very helpful. or maybe i dont want to be helpful. i just like posting faux info on blogs

          • Hi Chris… al….

            I would like to suggest that the reader of the word “scant” shouldn’t just read and accept scant by itself but to include “tarry scant”, because you can get amore specific meaning.

            Good luck!

        • You are (sort of) on the right track, Jamie, IMO – you’re thinking and sounding like a puzzle solver.

          • Thanks for the encouragement Spoon 🙂 it took forever to tie that one up…but now I’m down to two left! Hoping to knock one more out today. Wish me luck!!

        • IMO

          Scant = small = few or 2 (possibly stones)

          But = butter – yellow

          Tarry = black

          Buttery scant = A few small yellowish black stones.
          \ˈgȯn also ˈgän\
          : not present : no longer at a place
          : no longer existing
          : no longer living
          Full Definition
          1 a :lost, ruined
          b :dead
          c :characterized by sinking or dropping
          2 a :involved, absorbed
          b :possessed with a strong attachment or a foolish or unreasoning love or desire :infatuated —often used with on
          c :pregnant

          • Remember F sold papers on the streets of W. Yellowstone did you just hear what I said that was yellow stone. The boss had a yellow car….he talked about a penny in that chapter, more recently he mentioned J.C Penny. Guess what guys and gals? Pennies are very tiny!

            I just looked “few” up and one definition is “scant.” Why do I sound like I’m talking in circles?

            Do you know what I hear him saying?

            A few tiny rocks were placed inside a circle of rocks.

            Where does a person put there money? Answer: In a bank (read father on the banco)

          • Oh–maybe the banco has a case inside! And the yellow is blanco! Or Blond- that’s like gold! And also a case. Hmmm….three ‘fair’ cases….

            Oh look….circles again….maybe I should go back to the exit and get off at the cask. I always misread that idiot map. Exit at cask. Exit at cask!!

          • Tarry….

            1275-1325; Middle English taryen~>>>> to delay<<<<>>a delay<<<< < ?
            – also, thinking of F cleverness, I'd also look for something…"tarry"…as in tblacj tar or some sort of tar mixture.


            1325-75; Middle English (adj.) >>>short<<<<

            – "meager small amount"

            All together now…"tarry scant"….could be a delayed or timed short look for something tar baeed, possible black in color that could actually include a marking made by FF.


        • Jamie
          You think faster than I read but I like your approach. I try to make it all work in the poem at times, that was how I arrived at wwwh =a receiving station, microwave tower, Border crossing etc. Microwave, warm, waters, waves, halt, receiver.

          • Los Alamos/Site Y? Or the old coal and radio towers just NW? That place is a whole other beast of a sinkhole for my brain. Last time I went down that path it was two weeks later and I was in my basement building an ARC58 2-way with no clue on what I planned to use it for in the first place. I’m not allowed to think about that place anymore…it’s not my kind of math haha.

          • If you’re there notes do say something about adding a certain amplifier because when hit from both ways it can hit a higher frequency than any other. I must have found some blue hole mystery spot window way up there or something…lord knows. Lol

          • “If you are there” as in the field? I am actually at a lol semi-final at the moment.
            If you meant in your note I’ll have to reread?

          • Wow Jamie, your IQ must be off the charts!!! It’s like you just open up the flood gates and all these brilliant ideas come rushing out!!!! 🙂

          • Spallies,
            Jamie opens the flood gates and I am sflattered!
            I am flattered Spallies that somehow I might be linked to brilliant ideas, perhaps mistakenly.

            Jamie flood us more so I and others may entertain the folks with brilliant ideas. Sounds like so much fun. Always wanted to be an entertainer.

  56. Jamie, I too feel the key to open the poem is on the tip of my tongue. A few are in tight focus with the word that is key…I’m running in circles!
    Why is the running man running? From what? Or to where? Why show us the running man as a ‘blaze’ on a tree?
    If you’ve wisely solved the previous clues, they have lead you to the blaze. The blaze, dad gum blaze!
    I’m researching everything that is related to treasure symbols, or…blazes! Indian, English, Spanish, Greek all have symbols for treasure. The poem spit out the word, ‘hieroglyph’, so I feel that’s what the blaze is.
    Next step was to find a ‘spiritual’ animal that stood for treasure. Check, got that. Now I know why the ‘Running Man’ is running!
    WWWH…you have alot of warm water, slow moving and sun warmed, that halts, not by a dam. (I dont believe its a hot spring, its warmed by sunshine, the kind you “smell”.) It apparently goes into a canyon.
    Chute, canyon, rapids…parachute?!
    So the warm water would change temp. So does that mean the canyon halts the temp because it changes it?
    Down…hum. lower elevation, south, tastes like pureed confusion!
    I’m done for now. Brain spinning, like I was hanging off a tree, in my parachute, 18″ off the ground!

    • Wyoming’s oldest marathon is at Laramie, in Medicine Bow National Forest. Is this what the running man represents….?
      Also one in Casper WY? I hadn’t considered the running man on the tree as a hint, but who knows? Just some thoughts of a frustrated searcher reaching out in any direction. Could be some other marathons as well, these were the first two that I saw.
      Be my guest and feel free to research this line of thought, probably a wild goose chase…. but doesn’t ff have some geese??? All IMI ( in my imangination, lol)

  57. I think someone previously said running man is Father Time. Could Father Time be the owner of Time? Maybe Time Warner or Time magazine?

    • Father time was just someone’s guess. No one knows unless F confirms it, but I like it. My question is, is he running from time or something?! Or, running TO something?

      • I like the Father Time too and also JD Salinger’s Nine stories and his letters. I tried to link them together by the Little, Brown publishing company. I don’t remember if one of Ted Turner’s companies bought the publishing company.

  58. Can anybody tell me what happened scrapbook number thirty -two ? Seems to be missing… Also I have spent the last couple hours looking for a story that I read by FF about a Pyramid he visited while in the service. his friends dad was the curator, I cant seem to find it now.Thanks in advance.

  59. Hey now,
    wwwh, can we talk?
    I tell ya I want to cry lately… warm waters yes… but these tears won’t halt? I imagine that’s about how native Americans feel? Heck poor folks in general who have been oppressed, suppressed and depressed just being beat further and further down the hole, one can’t help but to weep… IMO.
    A trail of tears if you will?

    Why “One Tin Soldier,” I’m thinking there’s a lesson in there???
    “Billy Jack,” the Navajo? The Long Walk? It sure fits a theme of leaving this rock with less than $50 bucks!

    Chris Yates, several months ago mentioned this area, and we know the turquoise on the bracelet was found north of there?
    Too “Tarry scant and marvel gaze were discussed… and mentioned were huge well cut stones moved to create shadows and time… Chaco?
    Now I’m constantly brought back to colors? Red, Green and Black, why? Are they names of peaks, people or places, or is it something else?

    My wife the other day found a silver and turquoise ring in with my mothers old belongings. It looked similar to the Jewelry Ms. Maven might have wore. Anyway, some pieces of stone were red??? I had to ask a friend what they were, I had no clue Turquoise came in red… so much to learn in this life? If I think Black Mesa, Green River, Red turquoise my brain swells…

    Why? Because the Toltec is also there… I wonder if Farmington to Folsom is just to big of an area?

    Mark Plz Don’t drop the H. Back in the Chase!

    I am trying to find families…and in particular father/son types who are searching Wolf and MichaelD both do. If you fall into that category and would not mind a little TV exposure during your search please contact me:
    dal at lummifilm dot com

  61. Pertaining to the last 6th stanza…

    So hear me all and listen good,
    Your effort will be worth the cold.
    If you are btave and in the wood,
    I give you title to the gold.

    I stated earlieer that it seems as if he is speaking from an elevated area. He has made several statements as to smelling pine needles. Who else is with me on this?????

  62. Off topic Dal, I wish I could. It would make my son’s world. Last may when school let out my 17 year old son Matt, who has made three trips with me, said “He and his friend were going to NM to find the box without me.” Ingrate… but then I got sic and well they never made it… you know the rest!

    Goofy sorry… I did say NM!

    A little tidbit if I may?

    I remember we were leaving the high desert of NM when the strangest thing happened???

    On this most deserted road that we were driving, there was a
    Dr. Pepper can sitting up as if it had been placed there specifically for us to see??? I don’t know what the odds of that just being there was, but I’d say it’s astronomical! And yes, f knew we were there!

    One more thing, A friend who follows the Chase just asked me why I changed my thinking on the color thing…???
    Red black green blue etc. Heck Idk. I have many working solves. I once asked Desertphile about the Black Mesa and he told me it was a secret… I think he also liked the Mesa thing, so why discount it???
    As far as Canasta or Twinning or basket making and pottery I see those same colors/pigments in Native American wares. Indigo I think makes blue?
    Too, my old partner thought those colors represented periods in f’s life?
    Olga’s is a mystery!
    Mark H. Happy to still be here!

  63. wwwh: did not ff say it was a specific spot rather than a general area? and did he not say there are numerous of these spots in the Rockys as well as a few south of Santa Fe? Hot springs fit the bill do they not? a couple of people have gotten it right, so hot springs is not out of the picture to me.

    • one of great interest, is Black Rock Hot Springs – located north of Taos, west of the town of Arroyo Hondo. I know he said he has bathed there. I read that clothing is also optional.

  64. Howdy ya’ll, Do we know when the “Searchers-New Mexico” video was shot, especially the interview involving the things he would see, smell, and know.


    • Hey Yiga, That video it was produced in Feb 2015, but notice the fall leaves on the ground around ff’s house in the video. So quit likely that footage was late fall in NM. So it could be the chest simply had a wet snow or rain on it. Thus has been my thinking, and the video helped to solidify the thought. At least for myself that is. IMO. Hope this helps , Yiga.

      Well Goofy you are hearing things, but I have started answering myself! If we end up at the asylum, I will be the guy standing in front of the chalk board full of scribbles, lines, arrows, and equations. My hair (not my mind), looks like Einstein. See you there.


  65. Can’t leave out Mr. and Mrs. Waters… and hot springs sound good to me!
    Above the ski valley I actually have two new Browns.
    And puzzled, I often wonder if some of the clues don’t refer to people???
    The Browns. Smiles
    One of my favorite stories when I started the Chase is when the Leprechaun tried dialing up all the Browns in NM and was contacted by the State Police and ordered to cease and desist. 🙂
    Mark H. Wondering what happened to the little fella?

    • Maybe in the Clelend state penn? With his Prehistoric Ancestors? I think I read something about that in a book somewhere…

  66. I haven’t posted here in a while, as I had kind of quit the chase. But my mind wouldn’t let go. I hate leaving something unfinished. The fact that I was still gnawing away at the bone, even after I’d said I was going to bow out and publish my solution, meant that I wasn’t quite ready to throw in the towel. However, since I’m planning to leave the country mid next year, this really is my final attempt.

    So where has repeating the poem thousands of times got me? Apart from confirming that my last abortive search was on the right track, IMO, it has revealed many fresh insights:
    1. The way you recite the words is important
    2. The blaze is not close to the search area, but confirms your path
    3. Don’t discount any of the words – and certainly don’t ignore any stanzas
    4. Punctuation is vital
    5. Forget any spot where it would not be practical for FF to leave his bones
    6. The word that is key is in the poem

    Once again, I could be talking absolute nonsense, but I’m so looking forward to spring!

  67. Did you know, if you draw a line from the SE corner of AZ (42 feet east of the river) to the NE corner (the four corners marker) and continue that line into Denver, you come out right below the Home of Molly Brown…at the intersection of 13th and Pennsylvania. AZ I halve go NE alone in there….and you pass by some AMAZING places in Colorado along the way…

    • Michael D, do you means from the SW corner of Arizona to the four corners marker ? You are right about some interesting places in Colorado. IMO I have thought Molly Brown may be the “hob” , but could not get that to follow the poem either from Leadville or Denver Colorado. I think I need a good map !

  68. Also, if you Begin at Red River Pass (WWWH?) and take it in the canyon down… Moreno Canyon (Moreno is Brown in Spanish) And you “put in” below the home of Moreno Creek (Eagles Nest Res.), and go nigh (left), you end up in Cimarron Canyon. If you continue going ever nigh (left), you end up in MAVERICK CREEK!!It is in a WMA that is only accessible by foot or horseback. And camping is only allowed if you are “HUNTING”…very interesting stuff…

    • Hi Michael,
      I’m hunting treasure… Does that count?
      I dig this area too, Toby Creek, the Maverick and Clear Creek, and a host of others… I was hoping to camp around Ute Park. Perhaps snoop around as Marie suggested, as a “Bird Watcher.” I think they have a heard of Golden Eagles there? By horseback would be epic!
      Check out the Cimarron Hotel. The rooms have themes similar to the Chase! Awesomeness!

      Have you ever looked into the Hemetite (SP) mining south of RR???
      Mark H. Sad the Bears lost to Denver!

  69. And like I have shared before…I can spell CIMARRON with the poem…follow along if you can…
    If “I” can keep my secret where…and if we say the letter I is what “IT” is in the poem…then here we go…
    Begin “I” where warm waters halt (THEY HALT IN THE SEA or C)
    And take “I” in the canyon down (The letter M =canyon down)
    Not faR but too faRR to walk (= RR)
    Put “N” below the “HOME” (center) of Brown…(the center of Brown is “o” so put N below O….whats that spell?
    C I M I R R O N…not spelled correctly, but if you know what I mean then who cares, right?

      • Michael I hate to break it to you but that type of thinking can lead to mental illness, not trying to be mean or anything just saying ambiguity is a b@&$h.

      • I like it Michael D! As for the significance of the first clue… I wish I knew for sure? “He went alone in there!” …if you believe there is a clue in the first stanza–for me…seems straight forward. He went stag! However, as many believe wwwh to be the first clue, the significance might be or has been impossible to agree upon. I as time grows think some type of flowing water is too ambiguous. Too many springs and places warm and cold water meet??? Although I don’t dismiss these ideas either. Lately, I have been working on other ideas such as trails of tears, paint, people’s names, perhaps a place where there was once warm waters but not anymore, etc. All IMO, as I know everything about nothing 🙂

    • It’s taken me 6 months to go from having four or five to having all of them (IMO). The last couple fell into place in the last 24 hours. My problem before was fixating on something that was close and seemed to fit so well, and ignoring the coordinates that I had already worked out.

      I have to say that I was gobsmacked (to use a British term) this morning when I saw what was at the revealed location!

      The last few clues are very difficult, but if you KNOW you have the first 7, Michael, it really is worth persevering.

    • What is the significance of the first clue?
      We have been told this is the most important clue to nail down. without the first clues… might as well stay home. Keep telling searchers to dwell more on the first clue. Several have been at the first clue[s] but did not know…

      So out of curiosity, what is the important significance of the first clue?

      • Without the first clue, you cannot hope to pinpoint the starting place to any degree of certainty. The very first line gives you a major hint (if not a clue), and also sets the scene for how to solve the rest of the poem. After that, you need to use imagination and geography to verify that you know where the correct warm waters halt. But there are one or two phrases in the poem that can throw you off-track and make you wonder if you have it right. If you avoid the distractions, you will do much better, IMO!

        HOB is a major “hinge” both in the poem and on the ground. What FF has said about it is accurate, but easily misinterpreted.

        The final denouement is surprising, slightly amusing, and certainly not quite what I expected. Again, as you approach the reveal, there are words that can throw you off-track – unless you use them in the correct way.

        Take all the above with a huge sack (make that truck) of salt as I don’t have the chest – but I’m going in there next year with the most confidence I’ve ever had.

      • Seeker,
        I may not understand what you meant but I do ask the same question. Folks who have complete solutions or very near solutions can you explain what is so special about it to stay at home without it, without necessarily giving up your solution.

        • Uken2it,

          I’m asking about the significance / importance of the first clue. Fenn as made it abundantly clear the first clues is needed, no hunches / guessing will work. { it doesn’t matter to be what folks think the first clue is } I would like to know why they think it’s so important.

          Some of the reasons for my question is from these comments and Q&A’s:

          • Seeker IMO, WWWH, is the starting place. I you have the wrong WWWH, you will not be able to proceed to the other 8 places to find the chest. There area a lot of places that WWWH in the Rockies, therefore you have to be at the specific one, that FF uses, to be successful. Also HOB will help determine if you have the right WWWH IMO of course. Does that help?

          • Understand and agreeing with my question.

            Unfortunately half this dialogue is being sent to junk files, so I am running behind the actual conversation.

      • SL,
        I do not think, think Yew grows above 5000′ and I don’t think you will find any in the Rockies. IMO I didn’t search on the net, but I have lived in the Rockies most of my life and have not found any yet.

        • I believe that it, (Yew), can be found in interior sections of Montana and Idaho in the Rockies.

          Many herbal and natural properties remain
          unrecognized within the realms of cancer research. Hopefully, this will one day become more acceptable in the medical community?

          The Rockies are indeed a most beautiful place. You are very fortunate!

          • For ornamental yew shrubs, (Taxus, different cultivars) the needles were found to be the primary source of Taxol, whereas the bark was the primary source from the Pacific yew. In addition, while the bark of the tree was found to have a Taxol content of approximately 0.01%, the needles of a popular ornamental hybrid yew shrub, Taxus x media ‘Hicksii,’ were found to have more than 0.02%. Nurseries annual clipping of these shrubs were then harvested offering the opportunity for a renewable Taxol source and associated economic benefits for nursery growers.

            Hopefully now these 150-200 yr. old ancient trees won’t be sacrificed at the rate they once were.

            I wonder if ff had taxol used in his cancer treatment.

      • “If you (yew) are brave and in the wood.”
        Yes, SL, I’ve come across this info before regarding “Taxol”, but hadn’t seen this particular article, Thanks for posting the link. 🙂

      • That’s the same stanza I was playing with last night with the endwise blah blah (I won’t retype) but basically lay down became layman became Lyman. I’m pretty sure that stanza is in Lyman (the place) but depicted FINALLY after a full circle around the poem in Lyman FranK Baums book “the enchanted island of Yew” the king delights the dragons fire to make a fair fight and the dragon (whose made of same jewels like F’s dragon coat in chest) And and it looks down at prince marvel and declares he only wants peace and gives Marvel the cheat for relighting his blaze and promises to be a peaceful gentleman and use it for peace not war. It’s one of the few rare ones at that time where he wrote with that name and spelling etc. And with the actual book endwise the name LYMAN is emblazoned in gold inside. It was convincing enough with the rest I had above to close the chapter in that stanza. Not sure if it helps you though.


          The extraordinary mind of Baum continues to fascinate.There truly is… ” no place like home.”

          I also found another rather interesting”Lyman”… born around 1800 in Roxbury, CT: Lyman Fenn.
          Mr. Fenn owned a “hatting” establishment, also in Roxbury. (* William Fenn, his son; passed in a drowning accident in 1860.) Only his hat was found floating on the river.

          There really does exist, IMO…. facts that are “stranger than fiction.”

          • 🙂 Hi, how are ya SL? I’ve been reading about Baum and what Jamie mentioned. It’s amazing all the connections that can be found… Everywhere it seems!

            And Lyman Fenn…. Who’d of guessed? And hats are definitely a connection. We all know that. Remember Mildew? I bet she’s grown old and ‘Moldy’ by now! LOL. I’ve got more reading to do…. Especially about the drowning incident. I haven’t come across that yet. Sounds intriguing though.

            I’m going out for a while, but will let you know if I come up with anything else interesting.

          • Nice!! I’ve been a huge fan since I was a kid so I enjoy the possibility it might be right. The way my solve is looking each of the six stanzas seems to give me a clue, and then two of those words combine to make 3 bigger clues that are places. I’m hoping the chest is in the center of the places once I have all three.
            one of the other stanzas actually had the same word association as this one so I grouped them together. That one (directly above this one) I won’t go through the lengthy breakdown…but If you trust the method than I can just tell you it ended “knee high” then “nigh high”
            So I popped that as “NiHi” the old lemon lime soda and combined it with the Lyman giving me the final spot for those two stanzas as the city of “Limon”
            I don’t was to give away the methods I used for the other 2 groups of two stanzas and I don’t even have a final place for the last group because it’s a really obscure non word related and my brains taking a lot longer to tie the strings together but I’m hoping it works as the other two are pretty clean solves with ends matching beginnings and forming new compound words until it’s just one spot. Unfortunately I don’t have the 3rd group of 2 stanzas done yet and NO CLUE how hard the final three words/locals/whatever will be to combine until I get the last group of 2 done. My brain hurts. Ha!

          • I may be totally wrong anyhow, but either way I think the example illustrates really well what he might mean by “hints” in the book. All the soda pops etc. Wouldn’t really ‘help’ you locate anything…but when you have Limon or Nehi they seem to give a confirmation bias…or an affirmation, depending on how confident one is I guess. Haha

  70. Gregoriuos, I would say that you need to think about the potential different interpretations of those initial words, and then apply the results to places on the ground. However, without WWWH, they won’t mean much. Later on, you’ll find that they come into play again.

    I’m sorry that this appears vague, but I know that most searchers don’t want spoonfeeding (and most have their own ideas, anyway). But what I will say is don’t ignore small words!

    • All the following is in my Opinion.

      Do Not Get too big for your pants or shoes… there are a lot of people who Think they have it all figured out. Be careful with what you think you have…. may have been many there before. I have made the mistake you are working on. Mr. Fenn is a prankster , to say the very least…. take heed my friend. And go in peace.

      • I couldn’t agree more, Chesney. I have been at this well over three years, and I am sans Indulgence! Having been “out there” five times already, I am used to failure. However, I have reason to be confident, and will not be shaken in that until I return empty handed.

        Each time I have come back from a search, I have learned something new. The last one this summer had me thinking that I didn’t have the brainpower to get any further with the poem. Now, I’m glad I persisted. I had so many of the pieces in place, IMO, but needed to think even further outside the box while at the same time narrowing my focus to every little detail in the poem.

        Yes, Mr. Fenn is indeed a prankster, and I have come across a whole bunch of his merry japes in the poem, and particularly as I approached the last few clues.

        • I really hope you have it… are you within striking distance? Onsite? I dream of this quest each night and am ready for some person to find it. Did you notice that Josh Gates missed the entire 5th stanza of the poem? Why is that????

          • Thanks for the kind comment. Unfortunately, unless we get a very mild spell between now and Christmas, it’s going to have to wait until April at the earliest. It’s a 2500 mile round trip for me, and so it’s a real test of patience.

            I didn’t catch the broadcast, but I suspect they just edited for length. Stanza 5 (likewise all the others) is very important to my solution.

          • It isn’t a good time to be out there in the mountains. Getting cold and some snow coming, not worth it. Summer and spring are better and ahead of us.

  71. Voxpops would you say the poem solve comes down to the correct interpretation of the words in the poem? And then, applying those interpretations to a map?

    • Yes, absolutely. Via high quality maps and GE, I have become intimately familiar with my search area (which goes well beyond a single state). You have to test every advance along the map a hundred times to make sure it stands up. As many have said, it’s so easy to become convinced that it has to refer to a particular spot, even when at the back of your mind you know that you’re ignoring an inconvenient aspect.

      IMO, it’s useless to guess at WWWH. There really are hundreds of potential candidates. Once you find the entrance to the labyrinth, things become slightly easier, but it’s still really easy to be thrown off course. Take a thousand potential Browns, blazes and wise places, and you become lost unless you stick rigidly to the poem and the map – and yet let your mind roam freely with regard to the interpretation.

      If you’re too rigid, you’ll end up floating right past the final spot! And believe me, I had ignored the end spot on many occasions, because I was too tightly focused on what *I* expected it to be, rather than being open to a completely differnt type of interpretation.

      All the above, IMO, and yet to be proven!

  72. @Chesney, I did respond to your kind post – twice – but it must have offended Goofy, and both are awaiting moderation. 🙁

  73. Chesney:

    Read your comment of Nov.22, 10:08: Not many responded. I believe FF’s comment (you have probably read it) “If I were standing where the TC is, I’d see………is very informative and important in the search.. It’s not just what he said, but probably what he didn’t include in his description. Most have commented that FF is honest and believable, but, the concept of telling the truth, but maybe not ALL the truth, may be an important part of this hint. Just finished viewing the Travel Channel’s Expedition Unknown for the tenth time about Fenn’s treasure hunt. The three searchers featured probably didn’t consider Fenn’s statement about the location very carefully. The TC is elevated, not at the bottom of some ravine, or along the swift river bank that could wipe out the hiding place. The TC is in a majestic, concealed, and spiritual setting that would be a fitting resting place for his bones for centuries. All of the above, of course, is in my humble opinion.

    • BigSkip, your comment is very interesting. It has added another layer of confirmation to what I’ve “seen.” Thanks for posting that, since I didn’t see the program.

          • Hi Michael, thank you for the email offer – I appreciate it. I hope you won’t mind if I decline, as I’d prefer to share anything that I have to say with the whole group. If we’ve both solved the poem, we must be in the same state – there’s only one Indulgence! I really should keep quiet and wait for spring (as FF suggested a long time ago) but I get way too excited. I’d be a useless hider of treasure as I’d want to give hints and clues all the time!

          • Vox you mention “coordinates” in a previous post. Is your solve based on finding numbers in the poem? GPS local?

          • Hank, the poem is amazingly well constructed. You cannot solve it just by words or just by numbers. You need both! So yes, there are numbers in the poem, but by themselves they won’t get you to the spot. All IMO.

  74. Forrest has made an interesting comment in an interview that I haven’t seen a whole lot of discussion on. He was asked if he rented a car or drove his own car when hiding the chest. His response was that he did not want to give that info out because he was worried someone could get a hold of his rental records and see how many miles he drove and based on this pinpoint where the treasure is. I find that really interesting. Say he drove 100 miles which would give us a radius of roughly 50 miles. A 50 mile radius is still a very big area in the Rocky Mountains. Was he worried that that would narrow it down to a really small area for a lot of searchers or was he worried that that would make a specific area REALLY stand out on a map? Any thoughts?

    • gregorious –

      If we knew for certain what he did – it would change things but,
      anyway you look at it – you would be guessing…… so IMO it would not help move you closer to the chest. Guessing or surmising is not a good thing in treasure hunting. 🙂

    • I believe he said “truck” in that interview, if that matters. Also I hope those comments about the rental truck were just a smoke screen, he would not have to rent a car if it were only a couple of hours drive from home. Unless he does not have his own truck, wich I would have a hard time believing giving his lifestyle and all the dirt roads in NM. I wonder if he needed a truck to carry the TC, canoe or something? Just things I have thought about, thanks

      • Unless of course he flew to Cody, WY or West Yellowstone, then rented a “pickup”. I can not remember if he said “pickup” or “truck” but it was one or the other.

        • This idea has came across my mind meny times, with Fenns reluctance to answer that question, but he said he thought of everything. This would fit under that IMO. A good detective knows you can’t do what fenn did with the chase without leaving a paper trail. That is the biggest reason he doesn’t want anyone to know when he hid the chest, the reason why he say don’t go where a 79 or 80 year old man can’t go. If I was Fenn and I rented a vehicle I would of been sure to drive as far north as the search area and hid TC along the way. But we all know thats a long drive so he would of needed a hotel on the way and left a bigger paper trail that way. This way you leave a bigger paper trail then anyone person could figure out. A good hacker or maybe a family member after fenn passes could possible get accsess to such personal informatin and unlevel the playing field. All i’m saying is any good detective could look at fenn’s credit card statments for 09′ and determine where he was when, lets hope this is one of the things fenn ment when he said I thought of everything.

          • Scenario;

            Hey, honey, lets go and visit _____. And while we’re there, I can get some fishing in. You go do your thing and I’ll take an over night stay and camp out.

            Leaves home, drive to ____, visits for the day, goes camping and fishing… returns back, visits some more, takes in the sight with all, dinner out etc… returns home to NM.

            Pays cash for gas, food, no lodging.. stayed with ____. drove home. No paper trail, and an already pre- planned visit. And somewhere during that outing the chest was hidden. None the wise.

            I can come up with 100 scenarios without honey as well… No paper trail, no mileage check by Dick Tracey at Jiffy lube, no problems with cash payments, no need for an aircraft. And I’ll add, even if someone knew where he was intended to travel to… a side trip of 25 – 50 miles would be very easy.

            I’m only guessing, but I don’t think fenn is told [ by anyone ] he can’t do something when he want to. As well as, We have been told he normally doesn’t plan much in his life… the chase he did plan. I would think the hiding of the chest itself was well thought out.

          • seeker
            I do agree that a scenairo seems to be a better one when secerting TC. But riddle me this why didn’t fenn just give a simple no for the rent a car qestion? We know that fenn has answer question with a simple no (like the most recent question on jenny’s site, bet the qestion screwed up a lot of peoples solves). The point I’m trying to make is he rented a vehicle there would be a paper trail that could be followed.

          • Count,

            He won’t answer, buried or not, what year or month he hid the chest, won’t tell us what season it was, or in day or night, There have been many questions fenn will not and have not answer.

            Are they clues? hints? or just going to make you think what you want to think and not concentrate on the poem. Personally, answering anthing that involved the actual actions and doings of hiding the chest would give too much information… so why would he?

            I hid the chest Sept. of 2009 and rented a car, and needed a flash light because it was dark.

            How many would give up reading the poem and attempting to solve it, and just go looking for rental records in that time period, matching mileage to day light, etc. etc. That’s not solving the poem/challenge he work hard on… that’s a mystery dinner party.

          • Seeker,
            I will agree with some of what you said but disagree with some points. It does distract one from the chase but fenn has given us some info about hidding the chest like 2 trips from the car in one afternoon so to say fenn didn’t want us to know anything about the hidding of the chest thats not true.

          • I would venture to say that the only people repeatedly asking that are those that want to look up records anyhow. It wouldn’t help someone to solve the poem. And why give people trying to cheat any help? Let them dig in records all day if they want…the real question I think you should ask yourself is why WOULD he answer it?

          • Count,

            I’ll rephrase and say, prudent information.

            He made two trip in one afternoon. Even though he said “My car” in the comment… that doesn’t tell us his ownership or a rental or borrowed a friends car.
            He stated he walk less then a few miles to hide the chest… That doesn’t give distance to up and back or the entire trip.

            It doesn’t answer if a few miles means 1st trip from the vehicle [ could be a 4×4 for all we know ] to the hide, back to vehicle, and back to the hide. Is that a few miles or does that include the last trip from the hide back to the vehicle and on his way?

            The answers he does give don’t help, they are never fully answered to give help. Yet to say It was a rented 4 door sedan, blue, and had 10,000 miles on it and returned with 10,888 miles from Hertz… would sent 10,000 maniac looking for the log books of every blue, four door rental in every state.

            And it still wouldn’t get anyone closer to the chest… Folks have been 200 ‘ from it… Folks been at the first two clues location, some have solve up to four clues… at least 4 searchers in the last few weeks have stated they have the correct solve, and one with 95%…

            Knowing his rental? Ok, I guess that would lead to the chest.

          • …or maybe he put the chest in his car and pushed it off a cliff and then took the rental with the trailor home. And doesn’t want ppl to know he towed the bullet to it’s grave. Womp. Womp. Wooooomp.

          • 🙂 and since “trip” also means “kick” the two “kicks” are what it took to shove the Bullet past the edge HA!….somehow I think you probably though of that already though….and to any naysayers that may have called “the Bullet” a structure…it maybe was arguable BEFORE the cliff diving event but certainly not know. The chest is still safely in front of the firewall.

          • If it didn’t fall out and fling gold everywhere on impact. He didn’t say he did or did not wire or secure the chest though. He said Not Locked!

          • Hmmm….not exactly sure….hang on. Lemme check the patent records and see if I can find any methods of securing things with wire…that are related to being “in the Wood”….ugh I Cont See anything jumping out at me…can you? Or maybe an exactly perfect wood block…by a clearance…or a low grade hill or something….I’m having a vision but everything’s blurry….

          • Well I do think I get your interpretation “put it to the wood”. Now that is f thinking there!!! Way too much time on your hands, but it sounds good. Maybe there are pine needles in the firewall, and that is why you would smell them? I like the way you think! All IMO

          • ….and maybe that’s why he was so delighted Fe himself to offer anyone $250 in Too Far Too Walk to find it :)….and MAAAAAYYYYBE he was so pleased with the adrenaline of being so daring he HAD to do it again and tempt people on the radio just last year because Maybe just MAYBE mr. Fenn is a bit of an Adrenaline junkie and must be going crazy keeping all these secrets and just HAS to dance in right next to the fire once in awhile….but then again maybe he just put it in hot spring by a waterfall and brown trout somewhere. The world may never know.

          • I feel as if part of him is saying he wants it found in his lifetime. I think he may feel as if it is time. If someone did figure out 4 of the nine clues, then perhaps it will be solved soon. I believe he is enjoying watching from his computer what is going on with The Chase, but probably tired of crazy people threatening and some of the garbage he doesn’t need. All IMO… if I could read his mind I would not need to figure out the 9 clues. I will probably never find it, but fun trying.

          • LOL… Jamie, I think, you’ve done lost your cheese off your cracker…

            I must have as well… I’ma pickin up what ya puttin down.

          • Let me just inform everyone here that I have a tendency to over think things(I believe that to be one of my strenghts in the chase), that being said I’m well aware that if you did know for certin Fenn rented a car to secret TC it wouldn’t help you to find its location. I just found it some what intersting how much detail he put into explaining why he wouldn’t answer the question, not that he wouldn’t answer it.

    • Or he could have drove 10 miles to the Spot , and then added another 75 miles out of the way- either way your still searching.

      • Count, I don’t believe Forrest was flying his own planes during the time period he hid the chest.I also don’t believe he could have carried the treasure on a commercial flight without someone knowing.Therefore I don’t believe he used a rental car.I think it would have been really hard for him to take the treasure more than a day away during that time period without someone knowing he was gone.A trail to the general area would have been left behind, a track in the mud.

          • Imo the act of hiding the chest was exactly like plotting a crime.Car pre gassed up, lunch and drinks packed, no stops can be interaction with the public to tie me to an area.Everything for my day has to appear normal, to not throw up a flag of any sort..I’ve always thought it was probably within four to five hours of his house.imo

          • Not really involving anyone else including Shiloh if you don’t tell him what you have on board his plane. And I’m sure Shiloh wouldn’t want to spend every second with his grandad when he could be cruising town and doing more interesting things for a young guy. Easy for Forrest to take his rental car out to his favorite spot to hide a chest.

        • That’s a great analysis but I thought of other alternatives on that. That he’d had his grandson Shiloh fly him to Wyoming or Montana (or elsewhere) without telling him the chest was on board. He probably had some office or other especially in Wyoming because of his work with the Frison Institute at the University. Easy enough to leave it there and grab a rental car on one of his trips up there to hide it.

          Not saying he would have, but it’s a definite possibility.

          • It is a possibility but withbshilo flying him a definite track would have been made.Now your involving more ppl because I’m sure shilos parents, friends, ect.imo

          • My post was cut off.what I meant was, I don’t think he would have included shilo or anyone else in hiding it.He went in there alone imo…ans his lol

          • You make some good points, Tamara.I just think with the future of the chase hanging in the balance he was more careful than that imo.

  75. It appears he did actually answer the question judging from what you posted. That being said it still doesn’t help much in the Chase imo.

  76. Dal is there anyway to search your blog? Also, is there anyway to look at subjects that you have closed, such as older 9 clues posts? Thanks

  77. Gregorious – There is a search box on the right hand side of the page just underneath the photo of Dal. All of the “Nine Clues” posts are archived. There may be an easier way to access them, but I just type “Nine Clues Part” into the search box.

  78. Greg-
    Austin has the search box identified for you.
    To find the Nine Clues Archive or any other discussion post just click on the Searcher Discussions link near the top and on the right.

  79. FWIW, here’s what I used to get to my current solution. I won’t know if it’s the correct one for some time, but it’s a specific location just a few feet square.

    1. The poem – every last bit of it
    2. Maps – Government issued, Benchmark, Topoquest, Google (inc. satellite)
    3. Readily available general info about Forrest Fenn
    4. Forrest’s additional hints/clues
    5. Dictionary and Thesaurus, although in the end there was little need
    6. Search engine results for background info
    7. Time – ridiculous amounts of it devoted to obsessive focus on the poem
    8. Imagination
    9. Learning from failure and building on the soild parts of the foundation

    Here’s what I didn’t use:

    1. FF’s books – they may have been helpful, but I suspect they produce more questions than answers
    2. Non-poem-related info about such things as rental car use
    3. Guesses as to how far from home Forrest could have traveled
    4. Comments declaring that it has to be in X town or Y state for Z reason
    5. Codes, ciphers etc.
    6. Mathematics (beyond what everyone knows after about the age of 8 or 9)
    7. Artworks
    8. History
    9. Spiritualism

    I don’t know if this will help anyone, but I throw it out there as there seem to be so many discussions here about things that are nothing to do with the clues in the poem, and I believe that it really is down the 9 clues plus hints.

    • IMO… the first 9;
      1. Yes,
      2. a map is a map the more detailed the better,
      3. maybe,
      4. a useless clue is better than no clue at all, I guess.
      5. yes,
      6. No,
      7. I lean towards time as well
      8. well, of course imagination, and maybe a imaginary friend if you don’t like searching by yourself.
      9. subjective, but effective.

      The second 9; None.

      • Seeker, after all this time obsessing, I have a whole posse of imaginary friends – and their dogs. 🙂

          • Heaven Forbid that an imaginary dog would eat your homework (copy of TTOTC or poem) , that would make your quest to cease!!! Good Luck with your solve… someone has to solve it! 🙂 All IMO

          • …not sure where you find YOUR imaginary friends dal, but sounds like you got it pretty easy. Make sure to treat them kindly- your lucky to have the good kind. 🙂

    • I see the point vox-
      I would go as far as to say I only used a map and the poem. But where the poem listed the title of another book I read it. When it named a painting I looked at it. And if it names a movie last I’ll watch it. I didn’t need knowledge of anything but the poem and if it gave me an instruction I followed it. Nothing a six year old couldn’t do.

      • @Jamie: Interesting that the poem led you to certain books, etc. I only checked up on one literary reference and it was helpful, but not essential, to the solution. Beyond the poem and maps, I found the internet useful for checking basic things like weather and hotels, but also to see if other people had been to the area and provided photos and descriptions – fishing parties and hikers were very helpful in that regard!

    • Hi Donna,

      I do enjoy your ideas and posts here.

      For me, it’s hard to reconcile a stupidly simple solution with a puzzle that took 15 years to create and whose author tells people to use their imagination.

      I think too many searchers create false boundaries for themselves. I think the solution might require a couple of years to resolve, even after knowing how to go about working at it.

      My point is not to scare people away from trying, but to eliminate those boundaries created by a consensus of people who can’t be certain.

      As always, good luck to everyone.

  80. One can also search via google as in:


    This will identify everywhere “yellowstone” is present on any page under the domain. (Assuming it’s alread been indexed by googles webcrawling routines – i don’t know how long it takes them to index new data)

  81. Goofy, Dal, or any one else up to the challenge:

    I am trying to find this comment Forrest posted here on Dal’s site… somewhere:

    I had an enjoyably visit with Tom and his brother at the Downtown Subscription Coffee Shop in Santa Fe. They seemed like nice guys and avid treasure hunters. But there is confusion somewhere. While it’s not impossible to remove the blaze it isn’t feasible to try, and I am certain it’s still there.

    This is the best I get when I search for it in all different configurations of the quote on both google and here on Dal’s site:

    I am looking for the actual comment f posted. My hat’s off to the first person who can locate the actual comment.

  82. Just a general comment, and all very much my opinion.

    A few weeks ago I was angry and frustrated – deeply frustrated. I was beginning to think that the poem was poorly thought through and didn’t provide the necessary tools to open the lid and peer inside. Wishy-washy and vague were the kind of words that came to mind.

    But then I thought that you don’t spend years constructing something with millions in gold and gems at stake without first making sure that it was a REAL challenge, and second that there was at least a chance of prising it open.

    So, I decided to stick with it, and to concentrate on the tiny glimmer of light that I’d seen glinting away under the smallest chink in the surface. But the big picture was still eluding me. The problem was compounded by a hundred and one red herrings that tried to lure me away, and that were probably mostly coincidence, but maybe not entirely… I was tempted many times to throw it all out and start again (or quit). But instead, I took what I had and let my mind work on it over and over in different ways. Gradually, something started to take shape. It was amorphous and unclear at first, but little by little it came into focus.

    I think I now understand what Forrest said when he indicated that the person to find it would have earned it.

    The only thing I’m going to say about my final search point is that there is something so intriguing and compelling there that, even if I’m wrong in the end, there’s no way that I couldn’t make that trip – come hell, or water high!

    • In the end there is only one way to prove it right or wrong. I have found the whole thing to be like an onion, peel one layer back only to discover there is another. After awhile you start to wonder how BIG can this onion possible be? IMO

      • That is a great way to describe it, JL. Good luck with your peeling – and may your tears be tears of joy!

        • Voxpops –

          I was wondering if your state has changed?

          Also I agree with you and JL about the onion peeling…just layers and layers. I can’t believe how many times I thought I was finished – only to find something else……. and then at the end – a giant surprise. Just to imagine how he did that….it’s quite amazing.

          • States (plural!). Nothing substantive has changed.

            The two areas I went to this year, even though geographically separate, have both fed into my final solution.

            I couldn’t agree more about the surprise factor!

          • Hey Vox…I can’t help but notice that minus the s your name VOXPOP is an acronym a friend of mine uses for max measure of oxygen which a persons body can process before exercise becomes inefficient (you need oxygen to complete processes Of burning fat or gaining energy etc….they measure it in many stress tests…it’s the Volume of O2 max or VOX and it’s pop limit) I have to chuckle at this name in combination with the first person of the winter claiming they have solved the poem entirely and everyone must run on a treadmill until summer to hear they’re answer and just how easy and simply it was…which they rarely say. It reminds me of the stress induced acronym that also happens to be your name….can you reveal before spring if that is also why you chose your name? Or is it also just a funny coincidence? Just curious….

          • Complete coincidence, Jamie! The name is one that I use from time to time and came out of earlier events in my life. Nothing chase-related about it, I’m afraid.

            As for easy to find – that’s not what I think at all. It’s been a nightmare (almost literally) of obsessive work for me. And I’m kicking myself for not getting to it before the bad weather arrived. I was only wondering an hour ago whether I could make a mad dash out there – but I made the stupid mistake of going out into the woods this last February, and getting stuck in the snow. Patience will be rewarded – I hope…

          • HA! Funny you say that since we got stuck in the snow too! Another coincidence only we had the best time ever and ended up meeting some amazing people because of it 🙂 I guess I just mean you never know! Always be safe (we were less than a mile from a main road) but don’t be to scared of winter–that snow drift started another that opened more doors than I ever expected!! Take chances sometimes there’s treasures where you least expect em!! At least for us there was 🙂

          • I hear you, Jamie. I remember reading about your adventure. I was on my own and in a car that really wasn’t suited to snowdrifts an hour or two from the nearest paved road. I met a great ranger (fortunately), and later on a wonderful old farmer who allowed me to trudge across his land.

            Wait… just seen your latest post, I’ll carry on there!

          • Whew Vox –

            There for a moment I thought you and I were on the same path – but I see now we are not.

            I do have a question for you as it seems your solve has the TCin very close proximity to lots of people. Can you tell me how he would not have been seen?

          • As I said in another post, people tend to go to their destination and stay put – or at least focus on the activity they came to perform.

          • Sorry, inthechaseto, I misread “he” for “it”. We’re not talking Grand Central here, just an area that is used by other people – but not all at the same time.

  83. Back to the Tom and his brother comment from Forrest… Goofy provided the link above. In reading the whole thing again this popped in my head. “The CE5 phrase on the treasure chest is of no value to searchers. ff ” I take this another way. “… Is of NO value…” Actually means “… Is of ALL value…”

    At least in my solve. IMHO

  84. James-
    A few years ago a German journalist was following me around while I searched for the chest in NM. He also visited Forrest for an interview for his story. I was there during the interview. As the journalist was leaving Forrest’s house he remembered that he had one more question..
    His one more question was about the “CES” on the latch of the chest.
    “What CES” Forrest asked.
    The journalist grabbed his copy of TTOC and showed Forrest the photo on the back and pointed to the mark.
    “That’s not CES. That’s CE5 and its my mark. It tells me how much I paid for the chest. I mark many of the items in my collection so that years from now I will be able to tell what I spent on them.”
    The above is in quotes…but in fact I do not remember the precise words…those are only as accurate as my memory will reveal.

    Three additional notes about the CE5 mark on the chest..
    1. Forrest sent Deb an email which she shared on the blogs. It stated the following:
    “The CE5 cannot help you in any way. It is only my cost code to tell me what I gave for the chest. That information is on the blogs somewhere. You have an inquiring mind. f”

    2. Here is the location of Ed’s “enhanced” image from the book:
    Look here: Never mind…that image was taken down.

    3. All this talk originally came about because of Pam Sheltron’s claim that she found the treasure. A crucial element in her solution was the CE5 mark. According to Forrest she did not find the treasure…and Forrest told us that he never even heard of the location she claimed as the solution to the poem until Pam started talking about it. So I would be very cautious about giving that mark any weight.

    • Dal, with all due respect… I will hold true to my theory. If I worried about what others said then I wouldn’t be true to my chase effort. It fits perfectly to my area and I believe Forrest has subtlety indicated that back to me in more that one format. IMHO

      I really doubt that there is anyone who can convince me that Forrest “made up his own accounting code” to satisfy the CE5 and other object in his collection. How confusing would that get and what kind or record system would that be. If you or anyone on here is willing to try.., go for it. He smart but I don’t think that would be the case.

      He went to the house of the lady who wanted the accounting job I believe and decided that if the house was clean then that would = hiring and that if it was messy and dirty, that would = not hired. And then you want me to believe that he would through in some obscure account code that would be way out of the norm for the lady. NOT

      “it’s only my cost code” and “how much I paid for the chest” we’re not quoted by Forrest with the word “dollar” or the “$” in it. We can all agree that there is a cost to most things but that cost isn’t always monetary.

      I just see this differently and if I were to tell you “why and how” I look at and found what CE5 means then 1/2 the people on this blog might be turning to my search area.

      • I’ve figured it out as well. It’s an indicator that the box received a European CE mark as a medical device back in the 5th year AD. Its original indication was for the treatment of gold fever. However over the years it has evolved for the containment of a particularly egregious strain of the condition known as Fenn fever. I know this to be the case and no other information or even the superfluous detail that the chest didn’t exist in the fifth year AD will convince me otherwise. That is all.

      • Okay James…but I’ve seen some of his books and these “codes” were devised so he could mark each item with a 3 letter/digit code that he would be able to fit on the item. Some items are very small. Most of the time the codes are painted on..for instance on points and on old gold nuggets.

        The codes refer to an entry in his “book” where the item is listed and much detail is included such as the date it was purchased, who from, price paid, origin of the piece if known…etc,’s like a curator’s account in a museum.

        Remember that to a collector, a piece’s provenance is as important as the piece itself.

        • Goofy, please don’t interject unless you read previously to where you might comment. I already had the quote and that’s what started this dialog with Dal. LOL

          Ok Dal. But let me ask you this one question granting all you have said and have seen although none of us others have unless they have visited Forrest and his collection. We can only go on what is said here on the blog. However…

          Is it feasible or plausible for Forrest to take the code “CE5” and manipulate or place other things within the writing/making of the book and create another meaning for the code? Yes should be the logical answer. There are always, more than likely, alternate meanings to things. Don’t you agree?

          • Awe poopy monsters!!! Tell me we are not back on a codes and cyphers and incription train derailment, yet again. IMHO, All we need is the Poem. 24 lines, 6 stazas, and 9 clues. We have to be wise to sort it out. I do have a solve for the CE5… maybe since f was in the Airforce it really is C5 aircraft and nobody will ever get it because the Blaze is when it takes off in flight with the gold in up under the landing gear to the next destination. I had to use my f imagination here, could not resist. I hope all find humor and I don’t get nuked taking off! 🙂 All in good fun, but The Poem! Like Ragu, it’s in there!!!

          • James-
            I would not want to be the one that shatters your dream or your solution so feel free to see exactly what you want. My intention was to share my experience not be a fanatic. I simply heard Forrest explain why that code was put there. I believe him. You are certainly free to doubt or believe as you see fit.

        • Not being rude or disrespectful here to anyone. Just laying out thoughts and having a dialog. I look at things different and Analyze different than most I guess. Dal , Goofy and any others.

      • James, you seem to doubt that Forrest or anyone else would make up their own accounting code– but I know a trader and a couple of store owners who have done it and suspect that many others do too. In fact, if you go into any independently owned appliance store, you will probably find their price tags have a code somewhere on it so that the owner or employee of the store will be able to look at it and know the perimeters of a good deal in case a savvy buyers tries to negotiate a better price. You don’t use a “published code” for obvious reasons–you don’t want others to know how low you are willing to go.

        • Very true Raven. Years ago a local store/pharmacy gave those in the medical profession a discount of 10% over their cost, which was determined by a code on the price tag. The code was made up of an easy to remember 10 character word and substituting a number for each letter in the code, you could determine how much an item would cost you. We bought a lot of things from that store! I have a feeling a lot of businesses use a code of some sort to mark everything they have for sale.

        • Raven, I haven’t doubted Forrest at all. Accounting code … No way, IMHO. Ledger code as Dal has mentioned is different. Accounting codes “balance” $. Other codes just give information. Fact.

          I doubt and know of no written program that will take code like CE5 or BAS22 when entered and assign a numerical value to it for checks and balances.

          • My grandfather is about a year younger than Mr.Fenn. With all due respect, you have to consider he sold his gallery in 1988. At that time cell phones and computers? Not quite, and my grampa wouldn’t walk across the room to attempt to turn on a computer. Rolodex, file cards, like in a library back in those days. Not to be a jerk, but times have changed and we have to be able to revert back to figure this all out…IMHO

          • Hi James….I’d like to add something….considering I think I can call myself an expert in the Materials field….codes, such as been discussed have been and are used all the time for “accounting”….but more specifically an accounting of inventory and supplies. One can use it for a monetary source as well.

            There are various styles that I’ve seen, which include alpha, numeric, or alpha-numeric content. I’ve actually used both.

            So if F did use some sort of inventory accounting code, it was probably thought out and used years before his poem….IMO – just because he owned a gallery and the accountabity of art – is important and needs to be concise in nature. He had to account for his inventory and by using a three digit code is pretty good.

            I.E. CE5 could be…
            “C” = type of item or origin of item
            “E” = could reflect date (year?) purchased
            “5” = value

            As you can see, just by using this simple code, I managed to capture some very important and specific information.

            Hope this info gives you a new perspective on the CE5 code.

            IMO – it is irrelevant to the hunt.

          • So Tim, with your simple theory… explain to me how CE5 = $25,000 or $35,000 dollars to be exact? For this particular chest.

          • Hi James, remember, I was just giving an example. I would know how the code actually works, unless I used it.

            Variables do exist, but most can be categorized as a sub category, once you have arrived at the file that contains the details of the item. In my world it is called a Parts Master File, record, data, etc….various names have been used.

            All I am saying is F could have a system that works well for him. I’m not one to deny that. I also think the codes are irrelevant to a path one needs to make.

            Now could F have used a similar marking system as a trail marker or possible a “blaze”??….those are questions on my list I have not answered yet.

            Good luck.

          • James, I feel like you are not even writing what I am attempting to bring light to. Since computers were not vastly used back then, here is a scenario. Mr. Fenn buys tthe chest for X amount of dollars from the Kennedy Family. The last number in his Rolodex Type file was CE4. CE4 was a one troy pound gold nugget he bought. When you pull the 3 x 5 card out with CE4 in the top left corner in alpha numeric order, it has “hand written details ” , about everything he knew about it, paid for it, date, etc. I feel as if I am running out of words. Not to steal one of his quotes. All IMO

          • James – I can easily see how CE5 would equal $35,000, although I thought he said he paid $25,000. Simply assign the position in the alphabet for the values and use the number to determine magnitude:

            C = 3 (third letter of alphabet)
            E = 5 (fifth letter)
            5 = # of digits.

          • If he catalogs his prices by “year”/origin it seems may be way easier than organizing old items by dollar. To list by age and then have $$ values listed in book under year of artifact C.E. Means Common Era. The year C.E.5 in roman history is very likely a time the castle siege depicted on chest may represent, and he’s said it was romanesque. So that may be a pretty straightforward CE5 as exactly what he said. A pricing code. It would also have the age code built into the system so kind of double simple but only a guess.

          • With all due respect, Ma’am, that is all we can do is to guess. He made the Poem, we have to be able to “untangle it”, if you will. IMO

    • Forrest tells you what he wants you to hear. IMHO.

      Hasn’t any ever heard of the phase ” it doesn’t mean anything to me… It means everything to me!”

      I’m sure you have.

      Forrest believes if you ask him a question, you deserve an answer. Even if it’s one made up? Is that what he’s implying?

  85. What follows is dependent on one enormous “IF” and is totally opinion.

    If my solution is correct, the humor is not only in the place, but also in the proximity to where people go. I think it possibly highlights what is frequently an American character trait – that of being very destination-focused. I feel that if the hiding place had been in the British Isles for example, it would have been accidentally discovered by now, simply because Brits and some other nationalities tend to be less goal-oriented – more likely to wander around, perhaps a little aimlessly (no bears or rattlers to say howdy to!). This is, of course, an enormous generalization and I normally try to avoid stereotyping, but I kept looking at the spot and wondering how it had not been discovered yet! There was evidence of substantial activity within a matter of a few hundred feet and yet nothing by the location itself.

    I know I’ll probably get howls from both sides of the pond, but it’s just one of those funny things that is part and parcel of being in the Chase!

    • Well then…with so much activity so close and you’re being sure and all sounds like winters no problem at all…and seeig that it’s over a million bucks why not grab it? With such a simple solution surely it wouldn’t be not worth a $200 plane ticket to a busy area anyhow? Unless there’s to much fun in talking about it until April…no? Because you might wanna move quick…don’t wanna miss that banana tree 😉

      • Yes, I deserved that response! The reason I’m talking about it is just excitement. I should shut up now, as I realize it could be viewed as taunting – or at the very least, teasing, with nothing but opinion to back it up. I would so like to reveal more, but it would be stupid.

        I didn’t say that it’s a busy area in the generally understood sense. Just that there is evidence of substantial activity – all of which, I would think, is from the summer months. Don’t forget that the treasure is above 5000 ft and under 10,200 feet. There has already been snow and winter storms are forecast.

        I shall be under that banana tree just as soon as it’s practical. 😉

    • voxpops, I won’t comment on the nationality issue, but it would not surprise me a bit if it is only a feww hundred feet from a coomonly traveled spot. Infact I think it is probably true. Only when found will we know for sure. In addition to being goal orientated, we are so use to “following the rules” and “stay on the path”. I also think the 500-200ft comments by FF would back this up. IMO

      • FF also said that there in no human trail in “very close proximity”. He did not say that it was a very remote location, but he didn’t say that it wasn’t. The truth , but not all the truth. LOL

        • Look at any train depot, airport, major highway bypass, intersection, on 99% of all bridges, boat/rafting routes….none are secluded at all and none have “human trails” near them. Heck his use of the term could mean ‘trail of human bodies’ which would tell us absolutely nothing.

        • What is a ” human trail’?

          Is a rivet a human trail just because we use it? Is the CD a human trail? Are mountain’s passes … Just because we use them as an easy access?

          What constitutes a human trail… Just because we walk a beaten path through a wooed area.

          Some may be very upset if and when the chest is located.

      • I will say this: my spot is within 200-500 ft of a used route; it is accessible by a five-year-old (as far as I can tell) who could walk right up to it; it is a very “private” location not in very close proximity to a human trail, and in beautiful surroundings.

        • voxpops – I understand your enthusiasm and you’re sure getting a lot of mileage out of this. In the past your WWWH was the Arctic Circle (although they may have carried some other meaning) and you were searching in Wyoming, although your path took you across multiple states (sounds like 3 or more) to get there. All still the case? If so I can relax because there’s no way I can relate to that direction, but if not you sound too smart and convincing not to believe.

          • Hello, Spoon. This is very difficult for me as I would like to talk but I don’t want to appear arrogant or uppity. Like some others here, I have been at this for years, and have made a number of trips (I recently said 5, but I think it’s actually 6). Up to now I have always been keen and very hopeful, but never completely convinced. This time is different, and I’d love to say why, but I can’t. I know that this is irritating to others on the blog, and really I should be more disciplined and keep my mouth shut, but I just got too excited. I’m also old enough and ugly enough to know the difference between conjecture and near-certainty (right down to a few inches).

            After Jamie’s comments, I started looking into Jeep rental, but I need to be sure I can access the spot via (presumably) poorly marked trails when they’re covered in snow. I’d hate to make all that effort, spend a large pot of money (again!), and then find that I’m physically unable to get there, as has happened to me once before. Unless conditions look favorable after Thanksgiving, I’ll likely have to be patient.

            As to your question regarding my sanity… sorry, trajectory, 😉 I will keep silent, if you don’t mind. How I arrived at my final destination has indeed taken a very “big picture” approach, but I would just point out that no other approach has borne fruit yet. Suffice to say that most of my previous groundwork has played a part in the solution: the difference is that I eventually had the breakthrough needed to go from partial to “complete.” the beauty of the poem is that there are ways of double-checking all your answers.

          • Thanks, vp. I was not questioning your sanity (or trajectory), just trying to find out whether we are on the same track, because many of the things you said made such sense to me. Based upon everything you’ve said now and in the past, it doesn’t sound like we are. That is a relief, not only because I want to find it myself, of course, but because I think it would be a travesty if two people were to reach the correct solution only to have one beat out the other because of geography or circumstances. (And that actually happened to me in A Treasure’s Trove. These wounds heal slowly).

            I am curious, though. Are you saying that within the poem itself you can double-check your answers? If so, I am again happy because then we have radically different solutions.

            The chest has been out there at least 5 years. Take your time and don’t do anything foolish. Don’t spoil your holidays at the very least.

          • I agree, Spoon. Fortunately, everyone has a different take (perhaps other than those who congregate in the more obvious spots – I would think that NM must be suffering severe erosion in parts by now!). I think it’s probably safe to say that, because of the size of the overall search area, most serious hunters will not have to worry too much about direct competition – although as time goes on, the chances of two or more people arriving at the same conclusion increases somewhat.

            As for answer checking, yes, I’ve found that for most of the clues, and due to the multiple layers, FF has placed “parallel” pointers that help you know whether you’re getting it right or not. All very much IMO, of course.

            Good luck with your own search!

          • Thanks, vp, and good luck to you also. Just saw the forecast for that winter storm you were talking about. Looked pretty nasty up in the northern part of the search area; not too bad for us here in the Denver area, but I only got a brief glimpse.

    • Thx guys/gals I’ll have to think about it a little more. I think because it’s Canadian that might be a hint. I was more focusing on Elizabeth thinking British but as Dal pointed out its actually Canadian.

        • In TTotC, postmarks are everywhere.

          A friend of mine also has had thoughts upon them and if they mean something.

          We do recognize them to be possible dates of those adventures or visitations to those areas. W. Yellowstone pops up mostly, but that would be an obvious and about as much as we can green from them. Do they have or do they refer to any significant references, I have not checked them out.

          I will say this though….that F loved history and has used some of it in sort of a dramatic way – within certain features of his poem, which I am not able to reveal at this time.

          To be honest, I would not have gotten as far as I think I have without at least reading the book once, in which I did…I borrowed my friend’s copy (4th printing). What TTotC dI’d for me was that it sets the stage (preps the mind of the reader) for the main act (the hunt), in order to solve the poem (the chest).

          Thinking like F is difficult in itself, but can be done with the clues herein.

          Whether they mean something or not, I haven’t a clue. Good luck to all who do investigate them….I’d be interested in what you may come up with.


          • I would venture to say (at least in my most recent approach) that in the poem at one point two words are important….in the book they are a hint that kind of confirms you found the right to answers. Those answers, for me, were quite literally “post” and “mark” so I assumed maybe they were in the book as a confirmation but wouldn’t help you really unless you were checking your answers from the poem. Who knows though. Maybe just a coincidence. The soda pops in the book were like that too so I figured maybe his “hint” system could be a fluke though.

        • Jamie, so we seem to be on the same page here. So searchers have been within 200 feet, if 4 clues may have been solved and we reach 6… then 789? All IMO

    • Yuuuuuuppppp! We are back on the cyphers and encriptions again. What part of ” all you need is the Poem” so hard to comprehend? So 789 and that is why everyone is afraid of 6. Lmbo. SMH. All IMO

  86. @Dal or Goofy… taking a long time to load this page. Perhaps it it time to archive and start over soon?

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