Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Three

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Please click on the comment balloon below to contribute to the discussion of  Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Hunt. Please note that many topics have their own pages. Please scroll through the blog to see all the discussion pages. There are also stories, scrapbooks, searcher’s reports general information, tips from Forrest, a rumors blog and even email responses from Forrest. So please look around and if you want to make a comment please use the most appropriate page.

Thanks…

 

dal…

723 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Three

  1. IMO the most informative things ff has said are;
    —there are many places wwwh and most are no. of Sante Fe
    —there are no human trails in close proximity
    —a handicapped person would need some help
    —sage and pine needles
    —all you need is the poem

    What do you think are the 5 most important things he has said?

    • Bud, don’t forget he included Pinyon nuts with the sage and pine!
      5 most important things…? IMO…
      1. Recital of The Crocodile poem.
      2. A few searchers are in tight focus with a word that is key…
      3. Not on a man made trail.
      4. If I told you what that (Brown) was, you’d walk right to it (treasure).
      5. “Confidence can only come with knowledge and training, although a good ego helps.”

        • Yeah, he didn’t mean to say it, but it’s in my brain now. He prob didn’t want to give that big of a clue away. He’s always stayed away from state location clues.
          Imo
          You will have others say, “But he retracted it, so you have to ignore it!” Sorry, cant!

  2. Good morning! And a darn good question!!!
    What are the five most important things f has said… all paraphrases of course!

    1.) Doesn’t care for coffee… What…huh, this is where I became totally lost???

    Like if the box is outside then it must be wet, whet, what… huh?

    2.) “Who’s to say what the difference is between a weed and a flower.”

    Well I certainly knew the answer to this one… I know my weed!!! Weeds… Did someone say Lavender?

    3.) Does not… or can not… remember ever being a Boy Scout… But IMO knew we’d ask???

    Also of the opinion… No average Boy Scout could of ever kept up with the young Indiana Jones… Fenn boys! Right!!! Blue as to cops as brown is to forestry???

    4.) Likes Larry Bird… Me too!

    5.) The person who dies with more than $50 bucks in his pocket is a failure… IDK, I’m think n’ he meant greed loses?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Karas
    There you go!

    I had been meaning to post on this page for some time about my health for you my friends who might have wondered. I just hadn’t really felt like talking much about it… I guess???

    35 Chemo and Radiation treatments which kicked my butt… did help. I lost all my old man chest hair… all smooth now… smiles.
    Anyway, I still have a few traces of the stuff in my lungs. Boo! I’m looking on getting on that new drug Opdivo for Non small cell. Anyhow, I am doing much better… I’ve been out raking leaves and getting back to slowly working on the house… Woohoo!

    Mark H. Living for the Day… and today is pie baking day!

    • Mark H, thanks for checking in. I’ve heard really good things about opdivo. It’s one of a new generation of drugs that hits cancer in a very precise way by targeting it’s specific biology and causing tumor cell death. Has seen pretty impressive results across a variety of tumors. We are pulling for your full recovery. Hang in there and happy holidays.

      • Mark H:

        Keep shining! Great to hear that there’s no way that you’re allowing cancer to define you.

    • Glad you’re getting better and out in the sunshine. Stay strong and here’s hoping Opdivo does its job. Happy Thanksgiving to you and everyone here! 🙂

    • Mark, you keep living for the day.yesterday is gone . tomorrow may never come for any of us.all we have is today.my husband has carcnoid cancer.stage 1 in sm.intestine.mastised to liver,stage 4.so its all in his body.can pop up anywhere.but thank god no chem yet.he takes a shot once a month to slow down the growth . he’s doing good.doc.thought she was going to have to up his dose.as his levels were going up and down.but she decided not to ,as his levels went back down.she said their are other options if this medicine shot don’t work later.then she said theres chemo too.so hang in there.we are all here for you in our prayers and mind.god bless you.

    • Keep kicking butt on the cancer. I myself am a 5%er five percenter. 10 years cancer free from A.M.L. acute mylogenises leukemia. So keep up the good fight. God Bless. Happy Thanksgiving.

    • Make plenty of pies and memories,, Happy thanksgiving Mark and all the folks in the chase. Sending Blessings to All.
      Sally2fleming

  3. Dal and Goofy, Thank so much for the work here. I can’t imagine all that is done behind the scenes. Thanks again.

  4. Get well soon Mark.

    Looking at some of the postings I can not help but wonder how well a new chaser would locate all of the quotes that have been presented.

    Forrest has said a lot of things. Personally I like his posting in:
    http://dalneitzel.com/2013/04/05/forrest-comments-on-the-treasure-hunt/

    Where is states:
    Let us put things in perspective and look at them from a different slant. There are 654,885,389 acres of land in the United States that are owned by the American people. That is what the federal government admits is “public property.” And the population of this great country is 313,914,040. After doing the math I learn that my allotment is exactly 2.086 acres.

    Now, what if I wanted to secret a can of Dr. Pepper under a rock in the cooling waters of a rivulet somewhere in my allotted public acreage? If I did, I would not need to use all of my area, I would need just 7.5 fluid ounces and 90 calories of space. And I would still have about 2.08555 acres remaining. Seems fair to me but would I have broken the law? Yes or No? If yes, then let us change the law because who knows where that nonsense could end. If no, then why are we getting so excited about the little things?

    Forrest Fenn.

    Under close scrutiny this statement tells us alot about the hidey place.
    I drew several things from his statement:
    1) Without studying the poem finding the chest is like hunting a needle in a hay stack.

    I will stand mute on my other observations for the time being.

    Happy hunting

  5. Sub again didn’t take or I double dipped. Oh, and the five most important things? Oops I forgot.
    1-“Oops,
    2-I forgot,
    3-there is one thing in the chest that I have not talked about except to say I don’t want to talk about it.
    4-It is something saved especially for the person who solves the clues.
    5-I think that person will be pleased when she sees it.

  6. FYI – Just saw that there is going to be a Forrest fenn story on Fox 31 news at 9:00 tonight! Happy Thanksgiving to everybody tomorrow! Thank-you Forrest for the fun!

  7. I’ve been thinking about what someone said.about how mr.forrest was going to be by his treasure to die.do you think it might be in a alcove.clift area,so he could crawl in there with his treasure.so the only way to look for places like this would be from the air.then the area you might think it is .then you go to that area and look.its got to be in an area that looks like each other in away.opposite each other.thats what i get from the mirror image.or reflect back.reverse.up not down.just thinking.

  8. Thanks folks!
    Pie should be celebrated often… and my wife loves to bake. Her dream was to open a bakery one day. She was going to call it Berry Good Treats or something like that?

    Also, She makes cookies that are out of this world. In fact… if any of you would like some of the the wife’s cookies for Christmas, plz send me a note at mharper4301.mh@gmail.com and I’ll send a few. Seriously, she makes them by the bushel!
    Mark H. Again many thanks…

  9. Bud asked …
    “What do you think are the 5 most important things he [FF] has said?”
    ——————————————————————————————–

    Top 5 (for me) In no particular order …

    … that FF discussed the various legalities with a lawyer.

    … all the searcher needs is the poem

    … he spent a lot of time composing the poem

    … the personality of Forrest Fenn

    … the clues are in sequential order

    … (and one extra) … searcher needs the right map.

    Off topic … as a newbie here, what’s with the “Subscribe” “Sub” notations I see in all these threads. Are posters giving out clues (heeheeheehee) 🙂

    • You subscribe at bottom of page with your email and comments are sent to your email.
      Welcome here, Ken!

    • I won’t say these are the “most” important things Fenn has said, but their top on my list;

      “I’ve said searchers should go back to the poem so many times that I don’t want to say it again here. ff”

      “I’ve said things people think are clues.”

      “The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.ff”

      “C’mon now agent 777, a map is a map. The more detailed maps are most useful if you have the right map, but I’m not sure I needed to tell you that.f”

      “Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f”

      But the one comment I lean to be very important is;

      “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

  10. Expedition Unknown aired tonight with A Forrest Fenn treasure hunt episode on travel channel. Check it out.

  11. Whoa! In the Expedition Unknown episode the host mentions that Fenn told him his wife didn’t notice he left that day (singular) while hiding the treasure! He is very close to his wife and she would probably know if he was traveling out of state. This leads me to believe this comment substantially reduces the search area potentiality. Check out the episode, there may be another subtle hint…

    • I am not well versed with I tunes or Amazon video viewing. Is it a “viewed” purchase or a “download” where it can be viewed repeatedly?

      Thanks in advance

      • I should add that I am not worried about the 3 bucks LOL…..but where I’m at a video down load is very slow, video here is not streamed but rather dripped.

        • Yiga-
          I think they both work the same. You buy it and you can watch it whenever you want…as much as you want…but it stays on their server. You can’t download it to your computer unless you are sneaky…

    • aw…. all right, guess I best veiw it again. NM has been calling to me lately. Stagecoach springs ,mmanby springs …

    • But “THEY” could have been staying with relativse in Bozeman at that time, the comment would still apply…

      • Do you think Forrest would take a bronze chest with 20.2 pounds in gold, diamonds, rubies, emeralds, and jewelry from his home out of the area on an extended travel adventure without his wife noticing? The calibrations of consciousness reveal the treasure is indeed in NM around 9 miles north of Santa Fe.

        • Short answer? Yes. 🙂 Over Forrest’s life it sounds like he took many trips without Peggy to go fishing, attend board meetings, or whatever so perhaps he could have hidden his chest and contents in a few different bags and tackle box to sneak it past Peggy when he left to go on his trip.

  12. Ok, done with cooking for now. I have 10 nieces and nephews and a grandchild coming. We will play, “What does this mean?”, as in, The Poem! Will get the whole tribe involved! It should be a great time for all!
    Everyone should take advantage of having a child’s perspective!
    Have a great day!
    ¥Peace ¥

  13. Hi, I’m a newbie to the search. Has the exact location of Mr. Fenn’s West Yellowstone house—the one he pictured in TTOTC that he lived in when he was very young that had no electricity or plumbing—been published? If so, can I get that from someone? I am sure it has been searched, but I would like to see it next time I am out there. Thanks, JCA

    • Some of the cabins are still there. They can be matched to the photos in the book. They are private dwellings on private property and are not owned by the Fenns so a warning about trespassing is in order. Look on Boundary Street in West Yellowstone. You can see them on street view in Google maps easily. They are just a couple blocks up from the motel Forrest and Skippy and Donnie built which is also still there called the Dude Motel.
      We typically hide a cache across the street in the woods each summer for searchers to find and enjoy.

      • Thank you Dal, I appreciate the info and the little “cache” idea is a nice touch. Thanks for this blog, it is a great and vital resource for all of us who are looking.

        JCA

  14. I don’t think its there any longer. It was north of main town, a campground is near that area now.

  15. Someone may can clear this up, but one important statement was about the clues existance…. something like “”” the clues did not exist back then, but most of the places did ….””” . thats not exact, just what I remember. but I know the word ‘most’ was used there.

  16. Amy, it was fun seeing you on the video, finally someone we knew from here on the blog. I could never have imagined your accent. Good job.

  17. Dal. They were with us for 5 hours that day. We enjoyed their Company. They were fun, I would not say that they helped us look, well the girl looked around in the water with us. I thought it was exciting since I have spent quite a bit of time on the sesrch, and I’m Honored that they did a story on the our search, and that I have been fortunate to be a part of the chase. They were willing to go and do whatever we wanted. When I met them I said OK I hope your ready to climb a mountain 5 miles up. I said I hope u brought plenty of water. They were all for it, then I said I’m only joking I will never be able to climb that mountain again. Instead I took them to a different location to see the cross. They really enjoyed being out on the adventure because they said they never did this although they live in Colorado. They really enjoyed the scenery. They were awesome and did a great job. On the other hand I was nervous. But what a memory to have. Thank u all for all the fun and friendship. 🙂

    • Amy, enjoyed seeing you and your husband searching. How did they contact you in the first place? Any gold nuggets in that culvert, can be a good place to find gold sometimes!

      • Cholly

        When I had stated that I was going to search the news I believe contacted Dal and Dal put it in the blog and I responded so that’s how I received an interview. It was for who was searching in Colorado. I think I’m down to the wood now. Hhmmmm if I could just find that. Ha ha I will search again in the summer. 🙂

        That accent is from Arkansas and Texas its a mixture .
        Ha ha I knew it would be a strong accent. Ha ha

        • What accent?? Only accent I heard was them other fellers…..shoot, I’m still trying to figure out what Dal is saying in some of the interviews!! 🙂

          Way to go Amy!!! Good Luck to Ya! 🙂

          • loco-
            HA!
            I love accents. They make human voices sound musical.

            I once produced a short piece for CNN where a linguist from “Haavaad” identified to within a few miles where 16 people from north America lived just by listening to them say the following sentence.
            “I can’t say why I believe in magic but rabbits have always been my favorite pet.”

            He got the majority of them correct to within a mile or so..
            The farthest he was off was a person from Green Bay, WI that he classified as north of Chicago.

            It’s sad to hear that linguists feel that regional accents in Canada and the USA are disappearing. Not at an alarming rate mind you…but diminishing…
            On the bright side…how many centuries have there been regional accents in Great Britain? They have not yet disappeared…

            If you listen to Forrest’s accent do you hear a specific region in TX? or do you just hear TX…or maybe just Southern USA?

          • HA! Ain’t that the truth loco……Don’t worry about figuring out what Dal is saying. The boy kan’t spell his own name.

            Just love those sweet southern drawls…..accent of the angels.

  18. I think what Forrest has done is great one get people outdoors, two get people to think outside the box.

    • After taking awhile to figure out what video everyone was referring to, I finally found it! It was great to finally put a face and voice to your name Amy and we can all see from the video that the enthusiasm and sparkle that comes through your posts is the “real deal”. Its clear you are having a great time–good luck to you!

  19. mark, never give up, never surrender. …chemo and radiation are horrid… I had last chemo Christmas Day 2008, everyday is a great day.

  20. Ditto, never give up. My brother’s wife passed away from cancer 5 years ago this week. She left behind a loving husband and four kids under the age of 8. She was a fighter throughout, but ultimately succumbed with grace. Hang in there!

    Interesting post about aviation on Mindy’s blog. I may be jumping to conclusions, but the same logic appears in the diagram on the fur hanging in FF’s study. There are additional hints in that photo and the book/poem that lead to JF, imo. I would like to confirm at my favorite spot before the Winter Solstice, but sometimes getting the right airfare is like passing legislation in the Italian parliament.

  21. Speaking of “Haavaad”, just got back from our yearly trip to Boston for Thanksgiving. It does wonders for a country bumpkin to step into the city every once in a while. The hustle and bustle with so much packed into a relatively tight area…museums, parks, theaters, you name it. Just a ton to explore and take in. I had plans to dedicate a couple of hours researching (TTOTC related) while at the Boston public library; old maps, books etc. Never happened though. I ended up hanging in the children’s wing for 3 hours having a blast with the kids… Oh well, next time, RIGHT ! Hope everyone had a great Turkey Day. Also, I like that Forrest will share some “weakly” words w/all, it seems as though they are much needed…at least for me.

    • sounds like you had a great time in Boston – never been there but would love to visit there some day.

      I hope Forrest’s words are more than “weakly”, but so far they seem to be. 🙂

  22. Okay so I have my translation that may help others in finding it because I cannot get there. I only got this part because this is the part that I think is important.
    As I have gone alone in there

    Begin it where warm waters halt – probably means start looking in a warm body of water

    And take it in the canyon down, – might indicate that you must go down a canyon near the aforementioned body of water

    Not far, but too far to walk. – strengthens the guess that the canyon is hard to go through

    Put in below the home of Brown. – my guess here is that brown means dirt and under dirt is underground which may signify an opening or a cave

    From there it’s no place for the meek, – “no place for the meek” indicates that the place (the cave or opening) is scary probably by darkness

    The end is drawing ever nigh; – might mean that the treasure is just near the entrance

    There’ll be no paddle up your creek, – you may ask “What is with the paddle?” my guess to that is another body of water

    Just heavy loads and water high. – heavy loads and water high should mean a water fall inside the cave (or opening)

    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, – the blaze might say about light, probably sunlight

    Look quickly down, your quest to cease – and when you see the “blaze” look down and it might already be very near…

    But tarry scant with marvel gaze, – and that you can already see it

    Just take the chest and go in peace. – and this might tell about some sort of container or it may really be a chest

    And you can probably go there alone by the statement “As I have gone alone in there”.

    Well this is my guess, this should at least help 1 or 2 people out there.

  23. Well. After paying $100 for an overweight bag (such that I know the exact weight), in between lugging it around various airports…..I now am quite familiar with the weight of the chest+treasure. It gets heavier and heavier (and this was a bag you can “backpack”). I don’t think it can be very far from where Mr. Fenn parked a vehicle.

    • And that’s why he made 2 trips. Even carrying about 20 pounds each time might seem like a lot if you’re going up a hill or over rocky terrain or even on a good trail, so I agree, he probably didn’t travel too far that afternoon he hid his treasure. 🙂

  24. In My Opinion:

    I Finally figured out why FF may have dwelled on being 79 in TTOTC:
    #79 is gold on the periodic table.

    Page 79 of TTOTC has some numbers that may be of interest to those searchers looking for GPS clues.
    “a few minutes later”
    “twentyfour gauges”
    “three more seconds”
    “a seconds pause”
    “16000 pounds of thrust”

    Shown in the photo is two F-100’s
    with the caption “…we headed north”

  25. Michael, interesting find. I have thought FF may have a backup plan to the poem being solved. It would make sense the treasures location may be buried in TTOTC , and TFTW. IMO .

  26. Let’s do some math. Let us just have the poem to work with, and the knowledge that the poem with lead you to the treasure chest. Now, take away rumors, hints, and everything else related to the treasure chest. Let’s say we only know what’s in the poem, and only that. The poem can still be solved. Nothing really matters except what’s in the poem. Trust me when I tell you everything else distracts you from the task on hand. The task being solving the poem. Only my opinion. RC.

    • RC,
      What you say and don’t say makes a lot of since to me, curious if we have the same thoughts. I was struggling with some parts till I blocked out all of the noise and concentrated on the poem. Mr. Fenn is such a clever man.
      JL

  27. I’m not one to ask for information that I can easily find myself, but in this instance I just can’t locate the best answer. Does anyone have the year that Forrest Hid the treasure. I’m finding both 2010 and or 2011. And when did he publish the poem online before it was printed in TTOTC? If anyone feels that their educated guess is good, I’d love to hear. Thank you.

    • Hi, MJ, this is based on information from a different blog and did NOT come directly from Forrest to me. Another searcher said Irene Rawlings supposedly saw the treasure chest (in ff’s vault I presume) in early July 2010. This same searcher was supposedly told by Forrest that he hid the chest when he was 79 yrs old. HIs birthday to turn 80 yrs old was Aug 22, 2010, which means he hid the treasure chest between early July and his birthday Aug 22nd, 2010. I guess this can be construed as a rumor, though, since I didn’t hear Forrest or Irene make these comments…so believe what you want. The publishing of TTOTC I believe was in the fall of 2010 so he certainly would have hidden it before then.

    • MJ,

      None of what I’m going to type is factual… mainly because FF will not say when he hid the chest. Most believe from comments over the years 2009-2010 is the ballpark. But it is not known for sure. Fenn has said he started the poem approx. 1988 and it took 15 years to finalize, with rewrites and changes. The publishing of the book was 2010, and as far as the “online publishing” of the poem itself, I’m not exactly sure what you’re asking.

      My curiosity begs me to ask, what does it matter as to solving the poem? If you are attempting to follow fenn’s footstep, so to speak, that’s a long line you are going to be standing in.

  28. I realize Thanksgiving was last week, but I wanted to send a long overdue thank you Dal for maintaining this community forum. I’ve been an occasional visitor to the site for years, however in recent weeks turned into a regular. It has been a great place to seek interpretations of TTOTC and its meaning. Admittedly, there have been times I’ve flippantly grumbled about the site when faced with user issues which I owe you an apology. I’m sorry. I eventually get things figured out, but sometimes it takes me awhile. I also think you have one of the best pirate fez personas and full body mustaches around. Anyway, appreciate your skills…they are among the best in the west.

  29. Seeker, thank you for the information. No, I’m not trying to follow footsteps. I was just wondering if the date he hid the treasure was a hint/clue since he won’t reveal the specifics. I’m sure I’m just barking up an insignificant tree.

    • I dunno if that means planes, trains, and automobiles, or your brain gears from turning but I’m going to try to go with the latter.

      • Maybe road closures.
        Maybe can’t be found in winter.

        Other ways to look at it;
        peril: at your own risk, or in a jam or tight spot
        creek: narrow passage
        Up your creek: in a bind, between a rock and a hard place.
        Could ‘engine off till spring’ not be engine, but spring time? is new and old the start n’ end of the seasons?
        Is the blaze related to a tight, narrow, maybe rock formation that allows the Sun to shine on certain days…
        But Tarry scant with marvel gaze, Gaze; line of sight.

        Or it could just be, put the motor boat up for the winter… sure why not.

        Imagination will run wild over winter recess boys and girls.

        • The folks who have been within 200 feet would know about roads being closed in their areas! Guess the TC wasn’t hidden this time of the year, IMO…..

          • Ah! if they “knew” they were within 200′ why couldn’t they find it? One long hard day of turning over every stone, looking down every crevice, lining up all sights… how could someone “know” and not locate the hidden chest?

            IMO, just like the ones who got the first two clues correct and didn’t know… the two hundred footers didn’t either. It would even stand to logic that ‘maybe those who have the first four clues don’t as well.

            Still raises the question, why didn’t they know?

          • IMO For most seekers, if FF told them that they had been with in 200 ft, it would be mind blowing. Unless he was very specific and said when you were at ???? your were within 200 feet you could go crazy trying to figure out when and where you had been within two hundred feet. Most people who tell FF where they have been, have been several places, even if not just getting to a specific site. I covered a lot of miles in YSNP. If he told me that I had been within 200 ft, I could spend years covering 200 feet of either side of all the roads that I traveled. I prefer to THINK that I was close instead of KNOWING I was close. I can sleep a lot better.

        • Forrest has said the chest is “hidden” even if you are closer than 200′ theres for sure way to find the chest besides the poem. Hidden means out of sight but Fenn never said its buried so I’m thinking he has came up with some elabrote way of hidding it that has to do with wood. Even if someone can guess some of the clues without solving the last clue I don’t see way way to find. Fenn was ask the question if you have to solve all the clues to find the chest? I believe his answer was no, just the last clue. I think thats his way of saying the last clue has to do with the hidden place of the chest.

  30. Question, Has ff mentioned what his call sign or name as a pilot was in noncombat flight mode?

  31. @The Count,
    Being 80 or 90 percent correct on the clues is not going to find it. Even if you have The Blaze figured just looking down I don’t think you can see it, you still have more to go. So If what you are saying means the Blaze is not the last clue I am in agreement.
    jl

    • Yep, thats what I’m saying, I’ve bee n thinking for a while that the last couple stanzas are not just for the seekers but maybe more for the finder.

      • Agree, it took me awhile to get there. If you think your done after ” if you been wise” you are only falling into a trap. It’s like your opponent patting you on the back telling you how good you are doing because he knows you are not even close and is having a good laugh on you. IMO it only gets more complicated from there.
        jl

  32. They didn’t know they were within 200′ because it was a random guess on there HOB or maybe there canyon down. IMO
    Forrest said he parked his car then went to the hiding place twice in one afternoon. This could be a tourist pull-off on any road ,any place in the Rockies.

    • Or like the family did when they stashed there gear for the next year, they drove a mile or so into the forest [ with a 1935 something car]… and it was always there the next year. If one considers that he know this area well, dodging a few pines, crossing a few ditches or driving down a dry creek bed in a 4X4 Jeep Grand Cherokee… Then walked a few miles, and drove back out. maybe the more likely scenario then a tourist parking area that may not be around in the next few years.

      Just sayin.

      • My question about not being in close proximity to a human trail is how do you define a human trail and how close are you to be in the proximity. Most of the trails I have hiked are horse trails, does that mean its not a human trail? Most horse trails started out as game trails and then the ancients used them, then they started riding horses up the trails at what point does it become a human trail? To me this was no answer at all just a way to side step something FF didn’t want to answer.
        jl

        • Dear Mr. Fenn,
          You once wrote: “There isn’t a human trail in very close proximity to where I hid the treasure.”  You also once wrote: “And in close proximity were stone projectiles and crudely made hand axes that could have been 30,000 years old.”
          Can you clarify for us your definitions of “close proximity” and “very close proximity?” (e.g. 10 feet, 50 feet, 100 feet, 500 feet, etc.?)
          Thanks, Milan
          It’s not that easy Milan. Are you asking me to carry a caliper in my pocket? Each “close proximity” is different, relative, and site-specific, as you pointed out. So I can’t answer your question. To an ant a mud puddle can be like an ocean. f
          ——————————————————————

          When attempting to understand what is and is not a human trail… I think of something that was created for the masses, as well as how large the area is. There is no way to calculate what fenn means by proximity.

          As you explained JL, a cattle trail can lead to a road. Down town Boston is a perfect example of this [ older theater section ]. And on the flip-side, the CD is not a trail, yet it was never created as a trail natural. A mountain pass is a trail yet again never created to be. You can even think of a river as a trail, as it can be utilized to go from point A to point be, But was not created as such.

          • Seeker, How did I miss the ff remark on stone projectiles and hand axes???? I definitely would have noticed that, as it supports my current solution.

            Can you possibly point me in the direction of that quote?

            ADthanksVANCE

          • Joseph,

            Mysterious Writings, Q&As ~Jenny Kile’s site… You have to put it in the search there… I don’t remember the date of the question.

          • Seeker “There is no way to calculate what fenn means by proximity.”

            I think one way to look at Fenn’s proximity is to consider his flying experience which dominated his life. We all look like ants to someone flying in a plane. It’s all relative to your point of view.

            Also, going back to the other statement Fenn made “There are several people that have deciphered the first 2 clues, I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the TC”

            In my opinion, as long as your walking toward the TC from any angle & distance & reach the closest point & start moving away you are technically walking past it.

          • Jake,

            Hi Forrest,
            I saw an excerpt from your Oct 22 event at the bookstore where you mentioned again that the furthest people have gotten was only figuring out the first 2 clues.  I had sent you an email after my 7th trip to Montana from Connecticut a few days before the event outlining my solution which led me  xxxxxx   where I planned to continue my search in the spring.  Obviously if you said you know of only the first 2 clues being solved then all of the people who emailed you their solutions, including me, should start looking elsewhere.  Before I give up my solution, I just wanted to confirm that you do in fact read every email even if you don’t respond.
            Rod
            Rod,
            I read all emails unless they are too long, unsigned, or ask for an advantage or confirmation.
             
            Those who have solved the first two clues are not aware that they did, so I don’t see that as useful information for anyone. I will not comment on any solutions that are sent to me by email. Good luck sir. f
            ——————————————————

            For myself it doesn’t matter how close or far someone casually walked passed the location… I would like to know more to why those who were at the correct location of the first two clues and others / or the same, got 200′ from the chest and they didn’t know either. It now seem two more clues have been discovered by searchers [ total of the first four clues ]… did they know? or just got there by aberrations. This is more important then know how close someone was, from my perspective.

            My thoughts is that WWWH works with the first clue[s] but is not the first clue. The next two clues seem to, maybe do the same and even when someone is close they don’t seem to know… My conclusion is, and has always been WWh is not the first clue. And while some got to the correct WWh they didn’t ‘understand’ the poem. Not the wrong directions.

            Just my opinion.

          • Seeker,
            Here is a great example of Fenn’s relationship to distance & time in TTOTC page 96 & 97 traveling from Newfoundland to North Carolina.
            “Then, and for no reason at all, I closed my fist, stuck my thumb out, and moved it close to my face, an inch away from my left eye.
            My God!!!! I had completely covered up Philadelphia. I have covered up millions of people with my thumb.”

            Page 98: “I had covered up a few million people with my thumb and it took me to another dimension in my mind, a place I would not visit again until the grave marker entered into my life.”

          • Seeker, ” My conclusion is, and has always been WWh is not the first clue. And while some got to the correct WWh they didn’t ‘understand’ the poem. Not the wrong directions.”

            The way I see it is they were looking for the chest, took a shot in the dark and were in the right direction, somewhere their clues got convoluted and warped but they ended up in the right area. They couldn’t pull it together because they got lost 6 clues back or 8. It could appear that they know 4 clues but in actuality they only have one.
            jl

          • Seeker,
            ” I would like to know more to why those who were at the correct location of the first two clues”

            IMO, Fenn never said they were at the correct location of the first 2 clues, he never said they walked by the first 2 clues. Correct me if I am wrong & please give video & time stamp if available. Fenn said “There are several people that have deciphered the first 2 clues” I cannot assume they were there considering Fenn was not there with them at the first 2 clues but only knew this from email.

            This is useful information to me considering Fenn only said they deciphered the first 2 clues not been there done that. One is in the mind & the other is physical.

          • Jake,

            Dear Forrest,
            Now that the 2014 search season has ended, can you summarize the results? Ie: is anyone close to the treasure chest? Has anyone given you a solve? Thanks, puttputt.
            I know of a few searchers who have been reasonably close to the treasure puttputt, but there is no indication that they knew it. No one has given me the correct solve past the first two clues.f
            ——————————————————

            ‘There have been some who have been within 500 feet because they have told me where they have been. Others have figured the first two clues and went right past the treasure and didn’t know it.’
            ——————————————————-

            Mr. Fenn:  In the past when you have said that several people had figured out the first two clues and then went right past the other clues, would you say that they got lucky and just happened to go to the correct starting area, not fully understanding the poem, or would you say that they did indeed solve the first two clues by understanding the poem and clues? C
            Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues. Although others were at the starting point I think their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem. Playing a hunch is not worth much in the search and those who start out by looking for the blaze, are wasting their time.f
            ——————————————————

            Do expect that people will somehow *know* for sure once they have found the first clue?
            No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds  the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.
            ——————————————————-

            There are more but my cut and copy finger is getting tired…

            “Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues. ”

            “…many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it.”

            Jake you said; “IMO, Fenn never said they were at the correct location of the first 2 clues,…”

            Like I said there are more comments that refer to searcher telling fenn exactly where they have been. Should I come across those, i’ll post them for you or check out older fenn comments here and on MW’s.

          • Thank you Seeker,
            You have gone more than most in this journey in helping people.
            Put some ice on your typing fingers & keep copy & paste close.

            “Searchers” “identified” (not that searches actually were there)
            These are key words in this par.

            “…many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it.”
            “People” (not searchers)

            My point is that the begin point could be 100 miles (but not likely, somewhere in between 10-80 miles) from where the TC is located not within a short area like 10 miles like I thought before.

            Does this help me?
            Yes
            Does this info help other people or searchers?
            Yes
            Not much, but every mile helps.
            It’s a long haul.

          • I’m pickin up whatcha puttin down Jake.

            This is the one I’m looking for [ paraphrasing till I find it] : …Searcher tell me exactly where they been, That’s how I know… I believe by e-mail. And it is very similar to the above quote, but was made a short time after.

            It was in-regards to several searcher got/identified the first two comment and clarified how he knew where they have been. Where’s Loco when I need him…

            Trust me I’ll find it.

          • Dang, Seeker I had to scroll up forever to find the reply button!! (only for you 🙂 )

            I’m not sure, based on your paraphrase?

            maybe one or combo of these two:

            07/05/2015 – – https://stories.californiasunday.com/2015-07-05/the-everlasting-forrest-fenn/
            …article – – Two separate search parties, to his certain knowledge, have been within a few hundred feet of the chest. And how does he know this? Because they told him where they’d been over email — though Fenn merely smiled to himself and withheld further comment.

            Aug. 11, 2015– http://www.outsideonline.com/2006901/forrest-fenn-how-find-his-million-dollar-treasure?embed=y#ooid=U1amZ4djpA_iXu-ZwJ8kVO2LKfLUqZUN @ 1:20
            I don’t know of anyone that’s inside of 200 ft, but you know, I don’t know, they tell me where they are, and some of them exactly where they are, and so that’s how I know that. But so many of them tell me that they’re in a spot that’s in close proximity to the treasure, but they don’t know that they’re that close to it…..

            if it ain’t one of these, if I have time, I’ll look tomorrow

          • Appreciate ya looking Loco, It was just a cry for help as I know you have most of fenn’s responses…

            The comment was not his year, either 2014 or even 2013. Around the same time he used “few” and then “several” in two statements about the first two clue. And when we all were trying to figure out what several meant…

            I should come across it eventually… i’m on a mission now.

          • Jake,

            Yet another comment to add. It is not the one i’m looking for but dang close.

            “Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close. Alas, and dame fortune, so often a fickle and seductive wench, never spun her wheel to lure them back.” …MW’s

          • Getting closer but “mention” should be “they mentioned they were at places I recognized were the first 2 clues”
            I am searching the web to see if I can find the connection.

          • Jake,

            Still looking for the one I was talking about… yet here’s another that may interest you; actually a duel question…

            “Do expect that people will somehow *know* for sure once they have found the first clue?
            No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds  the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.”

            “Or they might have found it without realizing it? Yes”

            Interview with Italy…

          • Well Seeker, Thank you for seeking. It’s in your blood. I have come to a conclusion (for now) that many people (not searchers) have deciphered the first 2 clues although there have been allot fewer searchers that have deciphered & been at the first 2 clues but there is no indication that the searchers that were at the beginning started hiking & then past the other clues & TC. The other people could have been hikers, tourists or whatever, but I think they knew nothing about TTOTC. But this is just my own opinion & there is allot of info out there I haven’t experienced yet. Let me know if you or anyone found something that contradicts my conclusion.
            Otherwise my solve includes 2 states from the first clue to the last, traveling 65 miles by vehicle & 1-1/2 -2 mile hike to the resting place.

          • You have it narrowed down to two whole states? So not being a jerk, Lewis and Clark style… can you find a 10x 10x 6 chest in a lifetime? All IMO but at least you are not boasting a solve as some have.

          • Ches,
            Probably not likely. I don’t think Lewis & Clark ventured into Wyoming, so that would leave one state on the map. I am probably wrong on this considering my history is not that good. But I don’t think that has any bearing on where the treasure is except for Journal of a trapper.
            I am on a fact finding mission & when someone says or paraphrases or mis spoke, I would like to know where they got there info from?
            I have occasionally posted links to video or audio or emails where fenn communicates to us or others.
            I am still awaiting the link where Fenn states: “I didn’t say it wasn’t half way up the mountain”
            Thanks

          • Seeker/Jake/Loco – Here are some others that i don’t think are on the list above yet…

            There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest. And I’m not gonna tell those people who they are because one of them particularly would faint, I know. She’d tear the countryside up trying to figure out where they’d been.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXupxL4ovmY&feature=youtu.be

            This was the Moby Dickens book signing event. I can’t tell you the time mark where he stated it, but it is in there.

            People have been within 200 feet. I know that because people send me emails and tell exactly where they are. The people that have been at 200 feet from the treasure didn’t know that they were there. They were searching for the treasure, but they didn’t know that they were within 200 feet.

            http://www.koat.com/news/man-says-poem-will-lead-hunters-to-treasure/32606038

            —————————-

            I will throw this in as well:

            Some few have stopped within several hundred feet of the correct location, and then passed it by.

            http://dalneitzel.com/2013/04/04/the-nine-clues-part-twentythree/#comment-21626

            I think this statement is of interest and worth some consideration in that f made it about two weeks after he made this comment, already posted above; maybe they are not the same party in both statements, but I think it is highly probably that they are:

            Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close. Alas, and dame fortune, so often a fickle and seductive wench, never spun her wheel to lure them back.

            —————————–

            This was the second summer into the search (from what I can tell, no one got to the correct location the first summer based upon what f has said). Did the searchers stop off at the first and or second clue and continue on to get within a couple hundred feet of the chest? I think so, it only makes logical sense. Would you go out searching, having come up with what you think is the first clue, and then not go and stop at that place? What is the distance between the first clue, second clue, and then the other seven that were walked past? That is an answer that the finder is going to have to reveal, but my current thinking is that the last 7 or 8 clues are within the “less than a few miles” that f walked twice when hiding the chest. I would love for someone to prove that they aren’t.

          • JCM
            I have never given any of the “people within 200ft” or “in close proximity” any significant attention. I often assumed in my most serious solutions that the chest was near a place people pass by within 200 ft but rarely get much closer. If this is true, both searchers and non-searchers pass by the chest within 200ft but none of them know it.

            For several years I explored the possibility that the chest was secreted near a place where, during the tourism season, hundreds of folks cruise by in their cars, on bikes, possibly even in busses and certainly on foot. Most are headed some other place…even the searchers. So of course many people, including searchers pass by it within 200 feet but don’t know it. The one version of that idea that got my attention was the one you pointed out above:
            Some few have stopped within several hundred feet of the correct location, and then passed it by.

            The reason it drew my attention was the word “stopped” and its order in the sentence. If I take this literally…
            People STOP within a few hundred feet of it, AND THEN pass it….

            This is interesting. What would cause people to stop…and then move on???
            Although they could stop for nearly any reason I prefer to still consider that the chest is hidden near a place where there is a great deal of traffic. This is simply an idea, a way to interpret what Forrest has said, but certainly not the only way and it’s just an opinion I had.

            But if that were correct, why then would the traffic stop?
            This was what I focused on…Why stop…then move on..

            Certainly a stop light at an intersection would cause folks to do that but I doubt that Forrest hid the chest near an intersection with a light..

            What about a parking lot…a destination parking lot for a tourist attraction??
            Possible!! but still not likely…People most often get to a parking lot, stop, and then go back the way they came. That sounds a bit different than what Forrest said…not wrong…not impossible…just didn’t click in my head. In fact I went through about 33 different scenarios trying to match “stop and then pass by”.

            What about an entrance booth?
            People stop at an entrance booth to a National Park..or often even a State Park…pay a fee or get a map or show ID and then move on..

            For instance, if I thought it was in a National Park I might pass thru a park gate to get to my starting point. My place WWWH. Little did I realize that in so doing I stopped and passed by the chest.

            After I finished looking I might send an email to Forrest. My note would tell him my plan, my solution and I might tell him where I stayed and how I entered the park. Forrest would know that I went right by it. He would also know if I got the first few clues correctly..He would also know where I went wrong…and he would know that I still passed by it within a few hundred feet as I drove in the gate..and then again when I passed out the same gate..

            I know I am not the only person to consider this “possibility”.

            At any rate I still explore that Idea of stopping and then moving on as I consider the chest’s proximity to a place people typically traverse but are 200ft away from the actual hidey spot…

            My point is…that statement by Forrest was different than the others. He added an embellishment that might lead somewhere or might not…

          • Dal,
            I believe the people within 200′ had to be at or close to a labeled/named place somewhere on a map. Unless they were giving Forrest GPS coordinates which is a possibility but not likely in my view. There are many more unlabeled places on a map than labeled ones. Roads, streams, rivers, creeks, peaks, ranges, lakes etc…
            If you have an area where you think WWWH is, it makes it much easier for you to eliminate a spot or maybe find it.

          • Dal,
            My reply would be too long to write so here is a link to “My prediction” where I too speculate what would take a searcher to a spot and then have them stop and then proceed without being aware of being so close. To me one important possibility is that they were not searching at the time but rather taking in a “location of interest” or tourist draw. For instance:
            http://www.findingfenn.com/#!The-Prediction-Part2/cam/55d696420cf2174523e2cfce

        • JL, you seemed to answer your own question. I wish I had your talents. Close proximity can be as vague as within 200 feet. How many ways can you interpret a foot? These statements mean different things to different people. To me it means read the poem again.

          • straw shadow, lpl
            I wished I had talent, I am the proverbial “Jack of all Trades, Master of None”
            jl

          • Uke, you related to Seeker?? LOL!!

            You’ll stir up a bigger storm asking that question, than Seeker & Jake did about whether or not the searchers, who didn’t know they had solved 1&2, were in fact within 299;.

            But, that is what he said at that time. 🙂

          • Loco,
            I am not ‘related’ to Seeker we are are no further than first base…;-)

            Storms serve a purpose albeit with unexpected purposes at times.

            I am not recalling the ‘299’ experience so I guess I will dive into the archive. (I can’t help feeling taken in by the ‘299’ as if I am too old or out of it to understand)

          • Loco,
            I was actual trying to find out if searchers were physically at the first 2 clues & then walked past the others.
            This would put the distance from the begin point to the end point (where TC is) in walking distance for most.

          • Uke,

            Yeah, I had to look and see what the heck were “you” talking about…..299??

            My bad, that was a typo. I meant to type 200’…..what Jake and seeker were arguing about.

            “Storms serve a purpose albeit with unexpected purposes at times.” – – that certainly describes Seeker….to a ‘T’.. 🙂

            (hope I got the correct “rep;y” button, this time)

          • Loco,
            The chat Jake and I as well as others was more about, Did those who got the first two clues correct were “at” those / that location physically, and not much just an e-mail of their thoughts on the first two clues.

            Uken, if ya want to get pass first base, ya gonna need to buy dinner… No dang McDonald either. lol

            On the other topic of who was where… I don’t see how a tourist passerby would be considered as “someone close” Maybe I presume too much as when fenn answers those type of question… first two clues, 200′ who was closest a man or a woman… Wouldn’t it be misleading to use a none searcher/general public as an example of who was where?

            I tend to think those question about the chase, would imply searchers only… either in the field of where they been or by e-mail explanations of their theories and ideas.

            Dal, the quote about “stop” is very interesting…”Some few have stopped within several hundred feet of the correct location, and then passed it by.” {assuming, ” passed it by ” means the chest}

            Why would they possibly stop? IF a searcher stopped for a reason and then passed it, I would lay odds on an over look or lookout point… something that not only a searcher, but anyone there would take a moment for the view or sight. If so… I would love to know what it is that they are taking in.

          • First base is earned not paid for Seeker. Go buy your own Big Mac. 😉

            Whoever stopped at 200′, or this or that info seems as noise any more. I started this chase later than some and decided I needed to think outside the box to have a chance on being the victor. Since then I have been Jack; in the box and out of the box, going for the norm as well as unique. Noise at this point is anything that does not inform.

            I still read and keep notes but somethings ring true.

            Appreciate your info

        • Dal,

          Concerning the post by JCM referencing a quote by Forrest here:

          http://dalneitzel.com/2013/04/04/the-nine-clues-part-twentythree/#comment-21626

          Were you ever able to get corroboration from “vagabond108” and/or Forrest, that forrest had indeed sent “vagabond” that email??

          Your subsequent remarks to vagabond’s initial revelation, in Nine Clues-Part 22, and then to his post in Part 23, make it sound a little “iffy”??

          If you are convinced it is legit, then I will take it out of my “maybe” file and use it for reference in the future. 🙂

          Thanks guy 🙂 ……………loco

          • Loco,
            I clicked the link and read the post. I have an interesting take away “I am determined to stay aloof of providing any additional clues that are useful. ”

            Are all the subsequent to the book clues of no use? Heh heh

          • Dal,

            Good question. I have searched the site at various times, over the past 3 years, looking for anything remotely similar to it.

            I am far from being expert at anything, so I probably just missed it…..however, do be a sport and post a link to it, if you find it. 🙂

          • I can’t even find Forrest’s post. Any help with that…is it towards the bottom or top? Thank you.

  33. In the mountains if I am within 1/2 or even a mile of a known trail then I’m in close proximity, but I have always been comfortable in the wilderness just wandering around, my wife on the other hand can miss the rock cairn and loose the trail completely so close proximity to her is basically maybe 25-30 yards. I understand FF’s metaphor with the ant but there are no ants on this search. A trail for the masses does make at least a logical definition attempt IMO. That is what I had pictured in my mind I was just curious as to what others thought.
    jl

  34. Heads up, my daughter received an application to join the amateur treasure hunters club in the mail today. I looked it up online but couldn’t find anything. I did see quite a few ads for cleaning services, reindeer, angels, xbox, etc…nothing particularly useful (great for the holidays though). Some more detective work is obviously required. I’ll report back my findings. I’m pretty meticulous about these things, sometimes just not the quickest.

  35. Moved from the nine clues: BW asked:

    “Goofy, have you ever snapped ‘the green flash?'”

    Yes I have BW, but it wasn’t any good. I’ve watched for them since I saw the first one and didn’t know what it was. After researching them I found out I’ve only seen one “real” flash. And I’ve seen one green ray purely by accident. I’ve also tried many times to get a spectacular cloud formation at the right location. Getting a particular location with a spectacular cloud formation is very difficult; but when it comes together it’s special.

    I’ve also tried to get sprites (lightning) from mountain tops, usually from the Front Range looking east. I finally broke down and got a lightning trigger; it has vastly improved my lightning shots (I sill feel like I’m “cheating” using it). 🙂

    • Thanks for the reply Goofy. I lived on Guam for a few years and had the good fortune to see “the real deal.”

  36. “… I don’t see how a tourist passerby would be considered as “someone close” -Seeker

    My question to you is – do all searchers only search when they are in the search area? Is it not possible that when searchers travel such a long distance to the Rocky Mountains that they might want to take in some of the local attractions mountains?

    Fenn’s plan was to get people off the couch and into the mountains. Many people take their familys on vacation and tour while searching. I know that for a fact because that is what I do.

    So is it not possible that when these people tell Fenn about their search their experience that they might throw in a little tidbit of what else they did beside searching. After all wasn’t that his intent?

    For example, “Dr Mr. Fenn, This is where we searched while searching in the Taos area … and on day 2 we went to Ojo Caliente and hiked and enjoyed the hotsprings. Two things mentioned and two very specific places but for two very different reasons.

    Maybe it was the non-searching part of their stories he is using as a reference. They are searchers and they stopped within 200 feet but didn’t know it because they were not searching at the time.

    • Wolf,
      I get it… a searcher could take in a sight or two along the way. But that’s my point, it was a searcher and not so much Joe public and his band of little followers out on vacation, and no idea of the chase.

      You said ~Maybe it was the non-searching part of their stories he is using as a reference. They are searchers and they stopped within 200 feet but didn’t know it because they were not searching at the time.

      I think it would be a stretch, but not impossible. Would you say a searcher spends the day looking for the clues, calls it quits at 4:30, packs up the family and heads out to Outback for a steak dinner and on the way stops to take in a sight, Still a searcher?
      The word has meaning, not just something you call someone.

      Like I said, I would think that while searching some may stop at a place of attraction… but they would still be in the search mode and not a tourist… Yet lets remember they [ searcher ] are still on or near the correct location, because of either the poem or aberrations fenn mentions in the book< and told fenn their ideas or travel on a search… To jump away from a search or thoughts of a solve, and use a person that is not actually searching / or searching at the time, as one who was close or identified a clue, for me is a big stretch, and imo misleading… Might as well say thousands have got the first two clue, or within 200' but they didn't know it.

  37. Seeker,
    I think it is reasonable to call a “searcher” a “searcher” if they travelled hundreds of miles and sent a search story to Fenn. A searcher doesn’t have to be searching to be called a searcher. For example, I am at that outback steakhouse after I stopped searching for the day and someone strikes up a conversation with me and asks what brought me and my family down here? I tell them and he says,”I heard about that treasure, so you are a searcher?” How do you think I will respond, even though I am eating dinner at the time? Of course I am a searcher, one doesn’t have to be a searching to be a searcher. I am not flying at this minute, if someone asks if I am a pilot, I would be lying to told them “no”.

    We have to look at the facts and the evidence. Fenn has not definitively stated a searcher was in “search mode” at the time. He only said (paraphrase) “searchers have been with in 200 feet (stopped and moved on) because they told me in emails”. Thus is is VERY possible that he could make that statement and could be the gotcha head slapper that everyone can’t figure out. There is overwhelming evidence and I am sure some will admit that when they send FF emails they don’t only mention where they searched but where they have been.

    From my perspective, if this was my search, I would be only too happy to give that kind statement because this is a puzzle/game and I would want to test if people are “listening good” and using logic and avoiding the natural bias. Until FF says a searcher was searching at the time of being 200 feet, this kind of reasoning must remain on the table. If is only logical to do so.

    • One other thing to consider: He had made a statement “Searchers continue to figure the first two clues and others arrive there and don’t understand the significance of where they are.” f ”

      Why is it that a searcher doesn’t know the significance of where they are? One would think if they are searching at the time they would understand the significance, after all if searching brought them there… unless they are a “searcher” not searching at that exact moment…

      • That has been my question from the first time that comment was posted. ‘Some figured out the first two clue’ Like Jake and I were talking about early… were they physically there? all it says is the figured out the clues.

        ‘Others arrive there and didn’t understand the significance’… If they are not searchers looking and just general public then imo it’s just wrong, as this has to do with what we are all talking about, the chase, and If they were searcher … Then yes, why didn’t they understand the significance to where they are? in another statement fenn mentions… some may have gotten there by aberrations. So what is more likely.. a searcher who is not searching at the time and just happens to come across the correct location while sight seeing, or the searcher didn’t understand the poem correctly and got there on a good guess, yet didn’t know why?

        When does a person become a searcher and when are they not in relations to ” the chase”? Imo there must be a -relationship- to actual searching or theories passed on to fenn by e-mails for him to respond. if not… I’m completely wasting my time look at after the fact comments.

        • Re: Wasting time looking at after the fact comments? Probably true if I understand what your looking for. But lots to be learned and opportunities to assist.

        • LOL!! You just answered your question Seeker!!

          —Imo there must be a -relationship- to actual searching or theories passed on to fenn by e-mails for him to respond.—-NO, there doesn’t!! 🙂

          That may be your opinion, but I’m pretty sure the way Fenn sees it is….if you email him about anything or anywhere you have been in the Rocky Mtns., he can and will use it. (and he should)

          If you tell him you stopped at a location in Colorado while on your way to Wyoming, and it was near the chest, he can say a “searcher” was near the chest…..maybe you were one of the “solved 2 clues” or maybe not.

          HE knows where the treasure is and if there is historically non-search related traffic at the location….. So yes, he can say “others” arrive there and not know the significance,

          • I see your point, slim as it is in my eyes. Kinda like, his game his rules style thinking.

            Your explanation seems to point to “You” as a single person / searcher [ not you personally, the e-mailer] my problem is the posting for the general search community to see. Not only just an e-mail of a good time searching, but direct questions [ by searchers in Q&A’s, interviews etc.] about the chase.

            To be honest, we may never know, yet if you Wolf, Dal and others assumptions / opinions / thoughts are correct, and I’m all wet behind the ears… I would really have to take a serious step back to reevaluated why I bother with any after the fact comments.

            Yes this conversation is “all about personal opinions and thoughts”… but something would be wrong, imo IF it turns out remotely factual, in my mind anyways.

      • Wolf,
        Have you not found your solution crossing paths with another one of your solutions? If so that is how we might be there but be square.

      • If I fly into gallatin airport then drive to search yellowstone and tell F the story, and the treasure was outside the airport by gate B on the runway F would know I had been within 200ft as I said I landed there even though it had nothing at all to do with why I was there…and I had no idea if the places significance as I just landed there. Or think about train rides. It could be beside the route and searchers may say they took the train up a mountain. Only they didn’t realize they passed it 1/3 of the way up the ride. Hence being there…but not knowing it yet still mentioning in email.

    • E-mail

      Ok, You’re a searcher who is flying into West Yellowstone or another airport within the search area, and the plane is landing at an altitude of 500′ on approach and you just happen to pass over the chest… are ya still a searcher who was near the chest? If a searcher drove from MT to NM and passed through Colorado were they stopped to look at a view and drove to NM and started looking around… are they searchers when they stop in CO and was at the first clue or 200′ from the chest?

      There has to be a point to how far a statement, comment, answers goes when it’s about ” the chase” otherwise, it’s anything goes. The point is to get out and explore ” the chase” the reason for all this, and the blogs, “the chase” I can’t see fenn answering a question or commenting about an e-mail, posting it on the blogs, just to say Joe Public stop in his travels and went pass the chest, not knowing how close he was.

      Yes! There is a point when you’re a searcher, and a point you’re just traveling and not a searcher… it’s not a 24 hour title.

      • Seeker,

        ” You’re a searcher who is flying into West Yellowstone or another airport within the search area, and the plane is landing at an altitude of 500′ on approach and you just happen to pass over the chest… are ya still a searcher who was near the chest? If a searcher drove from MT to NM and passed through Colorado were they stopped to look at a view and drove to NM and started looking around… are they searchers when they stop in CO and was at the first clue or 200′ from the chest?”
        …….You may not be at “your” specific search location, but YES, you still carry the title, “searcher”.

        “I can’t see fenn answering a question or commenting about an e-mail, posting it on the blogs, just to say Joe Public stop in his travels and went pass the chest, not knowing how close he was.”…… oh, but I believe he has and is saying that some who were close were not searchers!! 🙂 IMO!!

        ** 🙂 Dang, I’d like to argue with you Wolf, but I can’t…..I’ve been believing the same for a couple of years (but I think you knew that 🙂 )

        • Loco,
          I guess my question would be… Why would FF tell the search community that others [non-searchers] where at the locations [ either the first two clues, the first four clues, 500′ from the chest or 200′ from the chest ] when asked or talking about the chase? these aren’t SB’s and such, but direct talks about TTOFT.

          What would be the purpose? So lets go with your opinion, and try to explain the reasoning behind your thoughts. I have given my thought… what say you.

          • Seeker,

            Leave the “first four clues” out of it. He has only made one comment about that and there is not enough there to form an opinion on it.
            …….

            Fenn stated, “Those who have solved the first two clues are not aware that they did, so I don’t see that as useful information for anyone.f”

            He has never stated otherwise, to date.
            So what difference does it make if he says someone who solved 2 clues(but doesn’t know it) was within 500′ or 200′?
            Or, that others (Joe Public) were near? Or that they all stopped and then passed by.
            Or, they had solved 2 clues and went past the other seven.

            **He has never said that any searcher was “AT” the first clue or second clue. Just that they had solved them and went past the other seven.

            1. If there have been both searchers and others as near as 200′, it probably is not that difficult to get to. Possibly somewhat remote yes, but not difficult.

            2. “If” any of the searchers at 200′ were ones who have solved first 2 clues, then it had to be accidental. They do not know they have solved them and are as clueless as Joe Public. They just mentioned to Forrest that, for whatever reason, they had stopped there.

            3. If a searcher is at 200′,whether or not a he has solved 2 clues, and walks past the chest, it can only mean one thing….and I’m not going there now.
            (200′ from the chest and no one can see/find anything related to at least the 8th or 9th clue?….can only mean one thing)

            4. I firmly believe those who Fenn says have solved 2 clues just mentioned theory to him.
            I don’t think they related the theory to any “hard” solution.
            ….and Fenn being Fenn recognized an opportunity. The searcher had told him what the first 2 clues are and he could tell us the had done so, but they didn’t know it. I’ll bet he was smiling real big at that time! 🙂

            All the above is IMO!!!

            (seeker, compile all of his remarks concerning 2 clues, 200′, 500′. List them chronologically from start to present. Then consider them as a whole, without having to jump around to find them. I think you will be surprised.)

          • Ok Seeker,
            I see your raise and add another,
            person says in email what their 9 clues are. Gets 2 right but not the first 2. Say they get #2 and #7 right. they go on their search but at some point they realize their clues don’t add up, but they have 9 more days of vacation left and they end up somewhere say 35 miles from their search area seeing the wonders of nature, Fifi gets loose from her leash and runs off. The owners pursue her and walk right pass the treasure not knowing they were so close never to return again.

            Why does FF make these types of statements, I can only guess. Maybe to stir the pot a little and get everybody thinking they better get cracking on this poem or someone else is going to find it? or its a great marketing hype. Maybe its a distraction, trying to hedge his bet so the chest isn’t found to soon.

            Whatever his motive it seems to be working because there are lots that seem hung up on this. IMO
            jl

          • JL,

            I think you are referring to my post to The Count… if so, ok…

            Anything is possible if we change what was said. Fenn stated the first two clues. Not: ‘ Gets 2 right but not the first 2. Say they get #2 and #7 right.’ So changing them changes the entire thought process.

            And I’m calling ‘ No Fair ‘ if FiFi has been trained to sniff out gold. I mean come on, where’s the honor among treasure seekers, if we use outside help… I wonder if Tucker is for rent?

      • “Ok, You’re a searcher who is flying into West Yellowstone or another airport within the search area, and the plane is landing at an altitude of 500′ on approach and you just happen to pass over the chest… are ya still a searcher who was near the chest?”

        Can you explain how the searcher stopped “at 500 feet” on approach in that aircraft? Your example needs to fit the logic of Fenn’s previous statements.

        • Wolf, I gave two scenarios, one flying and one driving. I think we are beyond the single one comment about “stop” and I do find that interesting and has Loco stated to put all the comments etc. in order [ which I Have ] about the first two clues [ not so much about the 200′ or 500′ comments ].

          The reason I started collecting all that information on “the first two clues” was to understand how, Yes, “a searcher” could have those correct and Not Know. Fenn’s one statement clearly states none of them knew [at least at the time of the statement] and subsequential statements have the same type of language.

          My problem with what some are thinking about that those comment “could” be about Joe public and / or a searcher who is at their search area, yet just driving to dinner < example.

          What would be the motive to use those scenarios for those statements?

          I would think in any response about the chase, would either be from an explanation of a theory or an explanation of an actual search.
          The line of thinking we are discussing boggles my mind, to think that an answer[s] would be so off set… leaving room for any and all possibles other than an actual searcher searching or a searcher theory / solve.

          Sure it would explain why someone didn't know… they may not have been looking at all, at the time. I can't help to think, that there is another reason why any of them didn't know, something they / all of us maybe missing.

          Then again, ya'll maybe correct, fenn did say he would not aid a seeker…

          Was/is a good chat… thanks folks.

          • I believe there is scenario that has not been discussed that I have been thinking since I’ve read these comments by Fenn. What if it is the same searchers that got the first 2 clues right that were 200′. They did this by getting the first 2 clues correct then missed some clues, lets just clues 3-6 then some how got back track and got clues 7 and 8. Fenn is not the kind of guy that would go in to detail about it but I believe this could be a good possibility and would mean more then 2 clues have been solve just not correctly in order.

          • HMMM I am not the sharpest tool in the shed I am sure, but did I miss something, has someone got clues 7and 8? Was it a statement from ff? Or someones trumpet blowing?

          • Yiga,
            No… No one is saying there was clue 7 or 8 solved.
            No statement from fenn.
            No one tooting a horn.
            The only thing you’re missing is the previous conversation.

            Count,
            That is a possible scenario, and I’ll see it a raise you… could someone correctly have the first two clue and went pass the chest by 500′ or 200′ simply because they left ta area of the first clue[s] to look for the other clues?

            “If a person read the poem over and over, and deciphers the first few clues in the poem, they can find the treasure chest. It may not be easy but it’s certainly is not impo…” {then added jokingly} “I could go right to it”

            This is a comment that can be found in a video on Toby’s blog, with others as well. The thing about the first two clue or even a few… it seems to imply if you ave those correct [ and obviously know they are ] it seems the chest maybe close.I maybe reading into that a bit… but does seem that it may just be that the clues are in close proximity of each other. IMO

          • I see, Like I said, I was not sure if I missed something. I have been following your ping pong on the topic,. From nearly the start I had to force myself to find a new box to think out of, otherwise I’d be at the tail end. But you guys have showed me a few things about new boxes. That’s for sure. Thanks

          • Seeker,
            Just got a chance to read you response here and others below up to date. So I’ll call your rasie and rasie you another, One question to Forrest that can be put into this disscusion is when he was asked by a reporter where the HOB is. Fenn’s response was if I told you, you would go get the chest(or something like that). Does that mean the Chest is close to the HOB? But the HOB is only in the second stanze how can that be? And since fenn has said maybe 4 clues have been sloved but not certain, could that include solving the HOB? None of these question can be answered exepct by fenn and I don’t think he would. Where does that leave us? I don’t believe there is much value in these after poem comments and questions by fenn in finding the chest. But it can help build ideas and thoes ideas may hold value just like this discussion here and others that have been posted recently.

          • LOL Count,

            My thoughts on the hoB comment to the reporter was just blowing off the answer, because he was asked a question he didn’t want to answer…. Shhhh don’t tell loco I said that. My head still hurt from that last discussion on that.

            Then again, If hob is very near the chest or even the location of the chest, the order of clues seems ‘out of wack’. I also have a thought that, hoB may not be so much in order of the written part of the poem, as to, in order of how it is read.

            Stanza 2 first sentence, may already be below hoB… if read as, Begin it where… but too far to walk.
            ALL the above is already, “put in” below the home of Brown.
            Is that why there is a period, making two individuals sentences, and not a comma for a pause or connection to continue too?

            That dang “important possibility” comment has my head spinning.

          • Well what about the “reversenginer” question seems to imply that the HOB is after WWWH. And if not the poem could have you running in circles(i think thats something fenn likes to watch with how much he interacts with the chase) but I don’t feel the correct understanding of the poem would put you in a circle but others have already believed otherwise.

          • Count,

            Nice catch… reverse engineering comment. Don’t have the time to look it up, but went something like… If you ‘know’ hoB could you reverse engineer back to WWWH? Yes, but why would you if you ‘know” where hoB is.

            Simple explanation imo is, if you have the correct clues to get to another, there is no longer a need to ‘know’ those clues. That kinda makes sense in ‘following’ the clues, The same can be said for; What is the most important clues to find the chest/ or have? The last clue. So if by some miracle someone knows the last clue, none of the other clues are needed as well, no matter how one reads the poem.

            In my post, the thought was could the first clue be where the chest is at? Maybe. That would not make it the technically the last “clue” but the ‘Final’ resting place… and the other clues explain that… Keep in mind this thought process would not be a step by step movement as much, as an understanding of “The Places/clues” mentioned.

            Also keep in mind the comment; “most'” of the place the clues refer did exist when he was a kid.
            Does this mean all the clues are place? or a place came into affect after a certain age or even at least one clue may not be a place at all? or all of the above?

            I would hope these questions help me to try and understand what it is I’m actually reading. Most searchers are stuck on only one possible way of reading, I’m not attempting to change opinions, just raising questions for so many different interpretation. You and others seem to attempt the same, so that is why I toss out more questions, than boast about answers… *In my true opinion*, no one “knows” they have the first two clues… the first four clues… it is them that are in the 200′ club.

            Fenn “knows” by what he is told and reads, and the only true way for a searcher to know is, to actually solve the poem… and see the chest. But that is so obvious, it’s redundant to even say it.

            I have enjoyed that last couple days with the back and forth of these types of conversation… hope others have as well. It more productive imo, than bragging one have the “Correct” anything, and doesn’t say or answers the tough question and whines about the negativity from searchers, especially when all that is being stated is… “I know”

            I Appreciate your opened minded comments/post Count… as well as many others who do the same.

          • Seeker,
            I too have enjoyed the disscusion over the past few days, you seem to be one of the great thinkers on this blog in which may help aid someone to the chest. Your logic is always fun to read and if I ever decide to post any of my solves here I’ll be anxiouslly awaited you critique of it, good or bad. I think it is very good to look at as meny aspect of the poem as one can even if one doesn’t agree with the aspect, an open mind is the best tool for imagination!!

          • Seeker wrote:
            My thoughts on the hoB comment to the reporter was just blowing off the answer, because he was asked a question he didn’t want to answer…. Shhhh don’t tell loco I said that. My head still hurt from that last discussion on that.

            AND

            ……reverse engineering comment. Simple explanation imo is, if you have the correct clues to get to another, there is no longer a need to ‘know’ those clues. That kinda makes sense in ‘following’ the clues, The same can be said for; What is the most important clues to find the chest/ or have? The last clue. So if by some miracle someone knows the last clue, none of the other clues are needed as well, no matter how one reads the poem.

            ………………………………

            I saw that, Seeker!!! LOL, yeah my head hurts too!….But, I still think you’re wrong about him blowing off the reporter!! 🙂

            And, that is a brilliant deduction about “reverse engineering HOB” and the “last clue”!!! How on earth did you recognize that???? 🙂 🙂

      • Yes correct if he said the first two clues, but the scene works either way.
        I had a half German short hair half Lab that could sniff out anything even covered in 18″ of snow. I wished I still had her, I loved that dog dearly but she passed last spring. I know she could sniff it out if I only had a handful of gold coins to train her.

          • Not at all, brought a tear to my eye I can only hope. When her time was near I got my Grandfathers old felt hat down and told her to find him and I would be along later.jl

          • I’ve seen the better part of 55 years and that’s as close to perfection as I have ever gotten. I still have moments that are hard and she left on her journey March 18, 2015 Her name was Aurora named after the borealis she will never be forgotten.
            jl

          • But would Mr. Fenn say if he knew someone was closer than 200′? He is well known to withold I formation on things that could “aid a searcher”.

          • Ches,

            If he wanted to “withhold”, he would not comment at all.

            “I don’t know that anyone has been closer than 200 feet to the treasure.” is a statement of fact.
            He may be ambiguous but he would not state something that is completely false.

            Be very careful where you go.

          • Loco,
            Another comment that I just heard on toby’s video that is Interesting to that quote you mention…

            During a Q&A with the audience;
            “How many clues have someone cracked? That you know of.”
            “I know they cracked the first two, and went right passed the treasure chest. Several have done that.”

            Just prior to that question one statement was…
            “People tell me where they are, and they’re very precise in their description of where they are, where they been, and I can tell some of them have been pretty close”
            That was in regards to some have been approx. 500′.

            As to a collection of the statement regarding the first clues and/or the distance from the chest… Do these statements sound as if those folks were just casually out, maybe not searching, and still came across the first two clues or near the chest? In your opinion?
            For me in the overall aspect… it seems those folks were in an active search.
            Just curious, as you’ve been around longer than I have… and I’m still trying to get a handle on these after the fact comments. [ maybe I never will, but still interesting to think about ].

            And Jake if you read this by chance. My apologies, I believe incorporated two statements of the first two clues and the closeness to the chest, with the words “told me [ fenn ] exactly where they are…” after reviewing the video of 2013. I think you can conclude my error from the statements above. I’m not perfect in all my re-callings.

          • No apologies need. We are all in the chase together and just speaking our minds most of the time. I appreciate your help as well as others but we need to make up our own minds in the end & I think no one has been at the beginning clue and hiked all the way to pass the TC. You helped me make this decision as well as others (searchers). I like to pick apart phrases that Fenn and anyone for that matter said & throw them out there for discussion. I have a few more to stir things up a little and help my decision making. It looks like a long haul from beginning to end! IMO

          • Sounds like Dal here asking a question in the interview?
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti2peP8jWYM&feature=youtu.be
            Collected Works Bookstore
            (36:13) OK, do we look at the poem more of a physical location or metaphysical location? (Sounds like Dal asking question) What’s metaphysical mean? When I wrote that poem I wasn’t playing any games, It’s straight forward.
            Well there you heard it “When I wrote that poem I wasn’t playing any games, It’s straight forward.”

            Sounds like it’s pretty straight forward to me……

          • Loco et.al.,
            The folks I think got with a few hundred feet (I ran across their tale while researching my “area”) were on the hunt, and interpreting clues 1 & 2 like I have (thus me finding their tale) but took a side trip (paraphrasing: in an area we wanted to visit, but we felt was an unlikely spot for the treasure). One member of the party actually just bailed due to tiredness. They were very very close to my solve, but oh so far away. They could have seen the blaze, IMO, had they looked up. (Part of my solution to “look quickly down” is that you have to look up to see the blaze. People never look up.)

            Others I have found following my line of thinking have parked ~500 ft away.

            I’ll let you know next spring if it is there.

  38. Upthread a ways, dal responded to poster JCM with a somewhat detailed view of dal’s ideas, most of which I agree with. The one statement dal made that I disagree with is when he said …
    —————————————————————————————
    “I prefer to still consider that the chest is hidden near a place where there is a great deal of traffic.”
    ————————————————————————————–

    The problem with that conclusion, in my opinion, is that it contradicts a statement FF has made on numerous occasions, to the effect that … “No one is going to happen on to that chest accidentally. Anywhere you have lots of human activity, you’re going to have maintenance of some sort. Crews working with or without machinery could alter popular tourist areas and thus hit upon the chest without intending to.

    Coincidentally, some posters here have said they think the chest is “hidden” out in the open, with nothing in front of it, above it, etc. How would that work in an area of lots of tourists?

    My own opinion is that the chest is concealed, though not buried, and away from touristy areas.

    Ken

    • Forrest quantified how close searchers were to the chest without qualifying his statements (2d or 3d perspective/vertically or horizontally?). Quantification without qualification is, IMO, just rhetoric and, in this case, best categorized as Marketing 101 information.
      FWIW.
      Joe

  39. To everyone, I will be starting up a treasure hunt this summer on the blogs. Below is summary I posted on CC that describes the general features of what’s coming. On that site under the World’s Dumbest Contest thread you can see more info and pictures I have posted. Good luck to everyone and I hope you enjoy.

    Threaded Mode | Linear Mode
    World’s Dumbest Contest
    Yesterday, 10:13 PM, (This post was last modified: Yesterday, 10:49 PM by fundamental design.) #131

    Online fundamental design
    Breakfast Thief
    ****
    Posts: 535
    Threads: 2
    Joined: Nov 2013
    Reputation: 0
    RE: World’s Dumbest Contest
    For those that have not figured it out yet this is a cryptex. It is the basis for my treasure hunt called Sloth coming up this summer. It’s called Sloth because it is a difficult treasure hunt so you can take your time on it as it will go on until there is a winner. I will let you research what a cryptex is if you don’t know. This one has 1 billion different combinations to unlock it if my math hasn’t gone south. But I’m always pointing north!

    I plan on writing and releasing a book or Ebook when the treasure hunt begins. The book will cover the new treasure hunt which is directed at the Chase family and I’ll make sure to throw in a few hints inside. There will only be one winner in this summer’s treasure hunt…the first to unlock the cryptex. I may charge a nominal fee of $1 per entry so no funny one can just enter a billion entries all at once. The book will also cover my bigger treasure hunt called Eureka that is set to release later and is for everyone. The one last topic in the book will be a surprise release of the most compelling and documented information yet by a searcher in The Thrill of The Chase!

    I have delivered on my previous hype and will deliver again. I will be stealing more breakfasts too or piles of leaves.

  40. Dammit Seeker, I’mstarting a new thread. Tired of trying to find the right “reply” button. Not to mention my pet peeve of having to jump all over the place trying to keep track of you!! If I ever catch you, old yeller, I’m gonna put hobbles on ya! 🙂

    (I had to go out of town is the reason for late reply…sorry)

    OK, I found what you posted today and “think” I am caught up.
    ………………………………………………………….
    You posted:
    During a Q&A with the audience;
    “How many clues have someone cracked? That you know of.”

    “I know they cracked the first two, and went right passed the treasure chest. Several have done that.”

    Just prior to that question, one statement was…

    “People tell me where they are, and they’re very precise in their description of where they are, where they been, and I can tell some of them have been pretty close”
    That was in regards to some have been approx. 500′.

    –>Then, you ask: Do these statements sound as if those folks were just casually out, maybe not searching, and still came across the first two clues or near the chest? In your opinion?
    ……………………………

    I don’t assume anything about any of Fenn’s remarks concerning searchers, clues solved or distance from chest. So NO, it doesn’t “sound” like they were actively searching at the the first two clues and/or the chest location. Nor, does either of these two statements lead me to think that the searchers in each statement were the same.

    Now, I may be totally wrong in my interpretation and freely admit it. But I don’t think so……….Here’s why:

    1.Forrest has said there are lots of searchers who email him and tell him where they are and they’re very precise in their description of where they are and where they been…..but he has never said they restrict themselves to only telling him only of their search. They tell him everything. Look at the posts here by searchers and the stories Dal has posted for them…. Some(most?) do not just make the search their only activity, and they tell Fenn about it all.

    2. “I know they cracked the first two, and went right passed the treasure chest. Several have done that.”
    ……Nowhere here can you find anything that tells you that the searcher was AT the first two clues and went past the chest. Or, that they wwere actually searching there.
    As we have been trying to show you, it is just as likely that they “solved” the first two at home and mentioned their thoughts to Forrest.
    Then, having told him about their trip and where they went, he knew they went past the chest……Forrest could then truthfully make that statement (and no it’s not misleading, unless you try to read something into it that is not there)

    3. “People tell me where they are, and they’re very precise in their description of where they are, where they been, and I can tell some of them have been pretty close”
    ……same as above: There is nothing here that tells you they were actuallu searching nor that they were some of the searcher’s who had solved the first two.
    4.As you pointed out,
    THOSE ARE SEPARATE STATEMENTS (not yelling, just emphasis 🙂 ). Fenn did not say anything to indicate that the searchers referenced were the same in both statements. If you are trying to do so, you do it at your own peril!! :)
    ………………………………………….

    http://lummifilm.com/movies/3rdEye.mp3
    Forrest: “Yes, people have come pretty close… I know people have been within 200 feet because they’ve told me exactly where they were… I don’t know that anyone has been closer than 200 feet to the treasure.” @~08:54 mark

    It’s the same with the 200’ statements. Some may have solved the first two and then, for whatever reason, Fenn knew they were @ 200’. He has not said what took them to the area nor that they were actually searching when they were there. And, if we assume anything about them, we do so at our peril! 🙂

    Seeker, if I could see anything in any of his statements that I could logically use to determine that the clues were all in one area, or reasonably close, we would not be openly having this discourse (but I would get your email and tell ya).
    As it is, I am being up-front with you about how I see the two clues/ 200’/500’ remarks. If you see something different, go for it and Good Luck to Ya!!

      Dal or Goofy, if this eats up too much memory…..delete it. (and, if you nuke somebody, nuke Seeker……..he started it!! LOL!! 🙂 )

    • Does anyone else hear a whisper of a voice saying; Walk towards the light Seeker… walk towards the light.

    • Loco –

      When having a discussion with pretty much anyone on the planet, there is implied understanding. Fenn stated that people have told him where they were. To me, it is implied that he is referring to where they were searching.

      Not sure about you, but I don’t email Fenn pictures and information about my trips to the Florida beach or my whitewater trips in Tennessee.

      Scott W.

      • 0_0 – dang, Scotty, take off that tie and loosen the top button!! 🙂

        I agree. In a normal discussion there can be, should be and is “implied understanding”.

        But we are not talking about about one-on-one conversation here, are we?
        We are tearing apart everything Fenn says…..especially anything that he directly says pertaining to the search.
        In reality, we have no idea what, or if, he is implying anything.

        If you want to assume that he is “implying” that he is referring to where they were searching…..great!! Good Luck to Ya. 🙂

        If it were not possible that the searchers had told him about other aspects of their trip, anything that was not search related, then I might agree with your implication.

        LOL!! If you email Fenn and keep it strictly about the search, good for you. I never said “everybody” did otherwise.
        But as I pointed out, based on searchers remarks here and elsewhere and the Search stories posted, there are a great number who tell Fenn every detail of their trip. And most of them did not get in their car and drive straight to their search area, get out and search and then drive straight home.
        ….And, even if they did that, who’s to say they didn’t pass the chest somewhere along that route. 🙂

        No, I have sent Forrest 5 emails in 3 years. Two were search related, early on. The others have just been Holiday wishes.

        later……loco

    • Absolutely. Solstice, the Sun and certain times of the day/year play major roles…..IMO.

      Sirius(ly). DO walk towards the light!

    • Well Loco, I feel partly responsible. I was trying to find out if the search area from the beginning clue to the TC was walking distance because my new solve takes me on a 60 mile trip from Wyoming to Montana & having searchers or people walk the length of the 9 clues would make my solve useless.

      I agree with what you said above, it makes sense to me. You have to pick apart what Fenn is saying & not saying to reach a logical conclusion if possible.
      The wording Fenn & others use can be revealing.
      Deciphered, figured, indicated, mentioned & cracked doesn’t appear to put someone physically at a spot.

      I also feel that you could walk past the treasure even though you were 10 miles to it’s closest point.

      IMGO

      • Well Jake, you should be proud. Anything that can get old Seeker stirred up is fine by me! 🙂

        You know the old saying, “Idle hands are the Devil’s workshop”?…..that fits Seeker, perfectly!! 🙂

        —>”You have to pick apart what Fenn is saying & not saying to reach a logical conclusion if possible.”

        YES!! That is what I’ve been trying to get Seeker to comprehend.

        Pick apart ALL he says. You cannot fixate on one remark concerning a particular subject. You must consider ALL remarks, concerning a subject, that he makes over a period of time…..and then reach a logical conclusion.

        (paraphrasing from TTOTC)—-“we must always tell the truth, just not all the truth”

        When he remarks on a subject, he is telling the truth. He just includes a little more “truth” in his remarks as time passes.

        His ongoing remarks about the “first two clues” is a prime example. And, there are other subjects he remarks upon. One such is “the first clue”….. 🙂

        Good Luck Jake, you’re doing good!!!

      • You guys underestimate my intentions… that’s great actually, even though I would like to help folks think about many ideas, I won’t give away the cow, just to give a glass of milk or two out for free.
        Yes loco and Jake, Deciphered, figured, indicated, mentioned & cracked where use in many comments, yet Precisely was used in at least one, and like loco stated you need all the information in order to see a full outcome of a logical conclusion. Yes I screwed up exactly to two clues, yet precisely mean just that and was stated with two clues comment. [ where can I find the happy face with it’s tongue sticking out? lol ].

        Can you imagine this conversation 6 months from now with the now, 4 clues comment… be afraid, be very afraid…

        Here’s another question to ponder. We now know the “chest” location is in the RM’s and shaded area of the map, correct? Is the chest location with the “meaning of the clues” in a state? Think about, no U.S history.

        • Ok Seeker I’ll give it a shot to see if I hear you correctly.

          The meaning of the four clues results might result in “Crossing of the Red Sea”, which is clearly not in the search area BUT Old Moses is……. nice location I’ll have to take a peek.

          btw regarding the map, it is the “highlighted” areas not ‘shaded’ areas. Not just being picky, highlighted could also mean bleached which most feel would be misleading so probably f meant the colored areas;

          • Not where I was going, but let me put it another way. When are the clues referring to?

            Going with fenn’s comments about “down the road” do we not only use that time in our thinking, and if so… Do we use it prior as well.

            This falls in line with can the poem be solve 1000 years from now.

        • I never under estimate my fellow person, this lesson I learned a long time ago but the saying was “never underestimate your fellow man” back then, maybe history does have some credence.

          “Forrest Fenn’s hidden treasure is somewhere to be found within the highlighted region of the Rocky Mountains on this map”

          Seeker- Here’s another question to ponder. We now know the “chest” location is in the RM’s and shaded area of the map, correct? Is the chest location with the “meaning of the clues” in a state? Think about, no U.S history.

          The “meaning of clues” could be drawn from the past where there was just territories. I have wondered why Fenn mentioned Journal of a Trapper in his book & realized that he said he read this a dozen times over the years.

          I have read this Journal in parts & thought maybe this was how the poem was constructed. The poem in my op reads like this journal except for the miles & the East, West, North, other directions given in the journal.

          I think the journal is a hint that will help with the clues in the poem but I do not think the couple of good clues are this.

          One thing I can say is what many have said to this like:
          “Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.”
          ― Edmund Burke

          Just a thought, in my mind.

  41. Addendum to above^^^^^:

    Again, I don’t assume anything. I just consider what he says in a critical manner and attempt to identify what his words may be imparting, regardless of implication.

    But, let’s assume you and Seeker are correct…..

    Theory: Some searchers had BOG, all had solved first two clues (but didn’t know it),all were searching at the first two clues, all walked/went past the other 7 clues and the treasure chest at 200 feet away……….

    So, even though they didn’t know it, they were at the start. And, compared to the four state search area they were relatively very close to the remining clues and the chest. There is a limit to how far they could have walked, even over a period of several days.

    You really believe that these people, whose theory of the first two clues led them to a specific location, could not identify/find anything at all related to the other 7 clues??
    ……………….

    The searchers who solved the first two clues, and walked past the other 7 and the chest, were not there because their solve took them there. They had to have been there for another reason, and told Fenn about it.

    If I’m correct, any serious searcher who is at 200′ from the chest, has walked past it and cannot see/find anything related to at least the 8th or 9th clue, can only mean one thing! (and I’m not talking about coordinates! 🙂 )

    Thanks for chatting, guys. It has helped me firm up my confidence in the perspective from which I am viewing the Poem at present!

    all above is IMO…..loco

    • Loco,
      I was going to sit back and just let this conversation go where ever it goes… It is interesting the different perspective of each person who reads the same 24 line poem. But you asked a question I’d like to attempt to answer… as my opinion.

      ~You really believe that these people, whose theory of the first two clues led them to a specific location, could not identify/find anything at all related to the other 7 clues??~

      As you know from past discussions, It ‘seems’ none knew they had the first two clues correct, and ‘assuming’ they got there on a hunch or an aberration, it is understandable they simple went pass the other clues. [ that is at the moment, my personal conclusion ]…
      Yet if just one had the clues[s] correct and felt they did, why or how could they just seemingly go by the other seven and not realize… has been my thought process. ‘One’ conclusion is, the other clues are places, yet not what most think of as we read the poem. Seeing ‘All’ of those folks [ either botg, or theory email sent ] have gone pass, ‘A’ logical thought is the clues are very close or the clues are descriptions and not to be traveled. leaving a possible thought that the first two clues are the location of the chest.

      There is more too it then just that being the location… seven clues are pointers, is another. Fenn stated they didn’t understand the significance to where they were. Of course that could simple be because they didn’t “know” they had the clue[s] correct… another is they simply ‘need’ to know ‘why’ there!

      This is why I started to collect as much as I could to understand all the possibilities, and not Just think the poem as directions. We truly don’t know… and the fact that four clues may have been solved, yet still not known… makes this all the more interesting to look at the poem differently.

      ” if a person reads the poem over and over, and are able to decipher the first few clues, they can find the treasure chest, it may not be easy, but certainly not impo…”

      Makes one think about **how** to read the poem to understand the clues. And the reason for me bring back these old conversation, and quotes. I still say we are missing something, maybe just maybe, fenn trying to tell us with the “important possibility” comment. You should know by now, just because I argue a point one way or another doesn’t mean I believe it true. I do it to open my thoughts to all reasonable conclusions… To do that I need folks who are on the same subject and not just a buddy at the local dinner… So thanks for all your feed back.

      • Looks like we said almost the same thing Seeker!…

        And I represent your snide remark about the “buddy at the local diner”!…Don’t know if I care for your altitude either!… LOL…Thought we were pals!…Guess you’re no longer enamored of my sheer good looks!…You dog!…

        We need to share another joe so I can get you back on track!…

        ………Sam

        • That wasn’t a snide remark, and not even a thought as to you… just an analogy of someone ‘not’ in the chase… never meant it any other way.

          Point was, to bounce off idea of others who are doing this chase… nothing more. Coffees on me when ya find the time…

          • Hiya!…Lighten dude!…It’s a funny…Seems you need more coffee this Am!…

            Will email a date and time pard…

      • LOL!! Seeker, you can’t just stir the pot and sit back and watch!! And Sam, glad to see you here.

        Seeker wrote—> Yet if just one had the clues[s] correct and felt they did, why or how could they just seemingly go by the other seven and not realize… has been my thought process. ‘One’ conclusion is, the other clues are places, yet not what most think of as we read the poem…..A logical thought is the clues are very close or the clues are descriptions and not to be traveled.

        AND

        Makes one think about **how** to read the poem to understand the clues. And the reason for me bring back these old conversation, and quotes. I still say we are missing something, maybe just maybe, fenn trying to tell us with the “important possibility” comment. You should know by now, just because I argue a point one way or another doesn’t mean I believe it true. I do it to open my thoughts to all reasonable conclusions…

        —–Yes Seeker, like you, I am not necessarily arguing that any one way is correct. We are searching for “how” to read the Poem. At present, I am leaning toward ‘the clues are descriptions and not to be traveled.’
        ……………………………

        Samsmit wrote—> …I believe the actual search location and the hiding place resemble nothing that most searchers interpret the clues in the poem to represent…Does that make sense?…

        In other words, people arrived(and continue to do so), at the correct location(which is the starting point) yet didn’t realize where they were because the location does not fit an interpretation of the poem based upon looking for physical places that are suggested by the literal wording in the poem…..

        —–Yes Sam, that makes sense That is precisely the premise I am basing how I am looking at the Poem presently.

        And yes, as I stated to Seeker, “they were there because the location does not fit an interpretation of the poem based upon looking for physical places that are suggested by the literal wording in the poem…..”

        ………………………………..

        Seeker, I know how much you love “after-the fact” statements so I will leave you with this:

        Reporter quoting Forrest—>”Every day, people call begging for clues. The other day, I had 21 email requests. One man asked if he should buy a topographical map and I told him he’d be better served reading the book again.” Fenn looked at me. “All you have to do is think about the nine clues and follow them in order.”

        Apparently, early on (8/23/2011), Fenn actually attempted to dissuade a searcher from using maps??

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/margie-goldsmith/2-million-santa-fe-treasu_b_932299.html

        • Yep, just love those AfTer tHE fActS roller coaster rides. Hmmm no mention of GE either… Good, I hate these dang thing, all I can truly do with them efficiently, is look up car parts.

          Topo maps? Thought at one time that would help as well, now I lean towards something a little more used up.
          The funny part of that interview [ funny as in interesting, because I can’t get enough of those after the fact comment ] The book… again, and Southwest. No not the airline. The directions. I read and heard of “west” That is the first time I seen Southwest. Cuz we all know Marg gets everything correct. 2 million? I thought it was 5 mill. in a more recent article?

          Southwest of Toledo? Well that definitely rules out those little areas of Utah and Idaho. But if I turn my Road Atlas 30 degrees and place my compass on the map pointing magnetic North… MT and WY are still in the running… sorta.

          OK ~ OK I’ll buy the dang book for Christmas… But you may be sorry when I do… Fuel for the Blaze.

          Dal? Do you have any copies of the TOTC still for sale? And do I get a members discount? I have a Petco card that will help? Green stamps?

          • Seeker-
            I never sold TOTC books. Collected Works has the exclusive deal on those. They sell TOTC on Amazon and via their own website.

          • Thanks Dal.

            Slapping self… I knew that. I’ll never solve this poem when I can’t even remember who sells the book.

    • Likewise Loco, all IMO…I believe the actual search location and the hiding place resemble nothing that most searchers interpret the clues in the poem to represent…Does that make sense?…

      In other words, people arrived(and continue to do so), at the correct location(which is the starting point) yet didn’t realize where they were because the location does not fit an interpretation of the poem based upon looking for physical places that are suggested by the literal wording in the poem…Whew!…

      Clear as a bell, what?…

      Basically, little of the wording in the poem means what it says…

      And if they had the first 2 clues and didn’t know it based upon ff’s knowledge of where they were, that implies that the first 2 clues reveal the search location(where to go) and the remaining clues should be the path to the chest(where to look)…

      So now, since ff has said 4 clues may have been figured, this suggests also that not only the first two but any two of the remaining seven have been mentioned to him…He didn’t say the FIRST four!…However, this doesn’t imply anyone realizes what part they have correct!…

      My way of looking at it anyway…The solution I am working is based on the ideas above…

      Good luck and good hunting…

      ………Sam

      • Umm he did say ~ “Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.” ~ Italy interview.

        The “I am not certain” part is perplexing… he know the clues. So is he saying he as heard or see four correct clues mentioned but doesn’t know if that / those searchers know it?

        ” Some'” may have solved” I want to know if those possible solves were form e-mails or blogs. I don’t e-mail FF [had once with my previous solve, posted here] So I’m pretty sure i’m not one of those “some”… maybe he does read my post… dang it must be me! Oh! wait… can’t be me, I don’t even know what state the chest is in. Maybe it ‘s not in a state at all?!?

        • I agree, oneyedwilly.

          I think the term that will quite likely apply in this case could be whom is in possession of the: “Paramount” Title.

          There’s a difference.

      • Sam goof thoughts. I work that way too. Forrest said imagination is more important than knowlege. So I am using an imaginative approach. I imagine that forrest is trying to keep people away from his chest and doesnt really want anyone to find it. But it is possble to find with the right imagination. This makes me think that there is a treasure of nature and its surrounding of earth, and there is a physical treasure of gold in a chest located somewhere else on the planet, and not in the rocky mountains. If you are a person who has an extreme amount of imagination, then you have a better chance of finding the gold in the chest. Anyone can find “treasure” in the rockies, but if you are looking for the gold then you will find it in another place IMO. There are 2 different definitions of treasure from the way it see it.
        Good Luck!

        • woneyedwilly…I tend to disagree about the ‘gold’ not being hidden in the Rockies…I doubt ff would tell a bald faced lie about that part…Just my opinion…

          I believe it to be in the mountains all right, just not in a location that the language used in the poem suggests…

          For instance…What I myself have derived from the poem is that the 3 references to water – “warm waters”, “creek”, and “water high” are all misdirection using “the wiles of nature”…In other words, sly tricks of language…These tricks allow everyone to mislead themselves…

          The solution I am working on really discounts these words as not useful in discovering the search location…For me, focusing on these words as important derails a searcher before the train even leaves the station…IMO when the chest is found there will be no water anywhere near the start nor the finish…

          I know it is difficult to understand how I could say such a thing…The only way I could really explain it is to show you why I say it and why I believe it to be so…It would require me to reveal what I believe the 1st 2 clues are…Just not ready to divulge that to the general public…I wish to make one more attempt at finding it myself…

          But I can say with all honesty that every comment I have seen or heard ff make about the treasure’s location fits exactly the search location revealed to me by the poem…I am confident enough that I will consider no other location…I’m sure others would tend to say the same thing and I know some have…

          And for uken2it…

          What makes mine any different you ask?…It is entirely based on WHAT lies hidden in the poem and HOW it is found…Every letter and word of it is right there in the poem before our very eyes… All ff did is use a clever ruse to hide it…

          So, in my own mind, I at least know where to go now and am working on where to look…But this is my own solution and of course just my opinion after all…

          Good luck and good hunting…

          ………Sam

      • Sam,
        For what it’s worth, my present partial solve of 3-4 clues are not literally in the poem.

  42. Question, I discovered the Story Contest from back in Aug., today and noticed the first story was by Donna McChesney: “The Peeping Tom”…..So Is that the “Donna M” personality here on the blog or the “Chesney”? Just curious. I like to try to keep the stories or comments with the correct “online personality”. Anyone know? Thanks

    • Tis notme Yiga. Just the alias I came up with for the chase. Some of my friends call me Chesney because my first name is Kenny, and when I wear my Black hat and Black sleevless shirt… you get the picture. 🙂

      • LOL…LOL…Well thanks for the answer and back story, or should I say front story. I suppose if sleeveless open shirts where acceptable in this culture (Uganda) I would be Chiga. Thanks for drawing the line between you and Donna M….:)

  43. What does it take for a person to think they have solved FF poem 100%, or at least move with confidence. There seems to be many people that have said they solved this poem 100 percent and just had to go get only to discover they were wrong. I have searched but the first couple basically just gave me something to do, I found a place that some words lined up and because it was not to far burned some gas, rolled a few logs and rocks over, looked in some streams and creeks. I found some artifacts and interesting rocks that’s about it.

    When you look at the big picture what is the probability of a correct solve? I’m no math wiz but number of words in the poem and the nine possible combinations you could come up with, factored in with how to interpret them and then line it up to a location somewhere in the Rocky Mountains would be astronomical. Now factor in the probability of having one or more clues wrong. Then the space that the chest occupies in in this vast region of the Rocky Mountains. Lets don’t forget that it is hidden.

    Mr. Fenn missed his calling, he should be selling ocean front property in Arizona, don’t get me wrong I do think he hid what he says. The way he has gotten searchers to buy into this against all odds is extraordinary in itself. He should be on the payroll of at least four states located in the Rocky Mountains, and a honorable mention from the rest of the states and countries that people have bought food, lodging, transportation and gas in. I am certain that if you added up everyone expense’s they would easily exceed the value of the treasure.

    My question factoring in all the possibilities how would or could you ever move with confidence?
    jl

    • JL
      You really can’t. Even if you think you’ve figured out the poem it doesn’t guarantee that you won’t walk right pass it. All I’ll say here is read the poem over and over and break it down in different ways. At least FF book sales are doing well. There’s a story out there written by a man that signed it as wolf. It’s long. (like this blog) He explains every clue broken down as he made the search. At the end he didn’t say if he found the chest but he’s in a cave and took a picture of a blaze. It says,
      F F
      75 possibly meaning FF was there in 1975. Don’t know if the TC was there though.
      Good Luck

      • Tim,
        Everyone seems intent on dissecting every word FF says, but when it comes to some of them they don’t want to address it. Why would FF say that a person will move with confidence if they can’t? That in itself almost tells me don’t ever look.

        I have A picture of a old dead tree with the initials FF carved in, very well done I might add. It was on a trail and I almost walked right by it, had to laugh when I saw it. I will send it to anyone who wants it and even tell you where its at.
        jl

    • Are you kidding? If all the money spent on this chase were put in a fund, I’d say it’d be in the millions—possibly 40 mil. Raffle it away and you’d have 40 millionaires…

  44. Here would be the one question I would want FF to answer (besides “Where is the treasure?”) Could some one with good internet skills find it or do you really need to know the area it is hidden in for the poem to make sense?

  45. State,state,state,state… Hear me all and listen good. 🙂 Only than will we know the significance of us being “there”, “where” he secreted his riches new and old. The first two clues. IMO! 🙂
    HAPPY HOLIDAYS,EVERYONE.❄️❄️

  46. Just wondering if Fenn ever mentioned anything about caves or a cave or maybe a crevice?
    I suppose it would be a great place to hide a treasure considering the winter inhabitants were miles away.

    • I have a vague memory of ?a friend of F’s? remarking on how he could spot caves from the air. That’s all I got.

  47. JL: “But I asked on the odds and ends what would make someone certain that they have the perfect solve. But alas not much of a response. ”

    (Not sure where this is in the thread, so I’ll just comment here).

    That’s a great question. Obviously the only perfect solve is one that yields the find. That solve has met all the *necessary* conditions for finding the treasure. However, I have put some thought into what makes a really good solve, if not perfect. There’s a distinction between *necessary* and *sufficient* I’d like to draw.

    I think a really good solve is one that is *sufficient* for finding the treasure. It doesn’t have to be one that necessarily says that the treasure is at the location, but it has to be sufficient to say that it *could* be there. A lot of the solves I’ve seen aren’t actually sufficient. Sufficient means that it is first compatible with the poem. Also, it should be consistent with every quote Forrest has made about the location (If you accept his statements as given in good faith, which I do. If not, you had better have a good reason for why the statement is misleading for your solve to be sufficient). Obviously it should be consistent with the known properties of the location (altitude, four states, etc.). Finally, I would add, a sufficient solve would have a plausible story attached to it. This is somewhat subjective, but a good solve would be one that answers the questions “Why would Forrest put it here?” and “How did it get here?” and I would even add “What’s this whole thing about, really?”

    I think those are the makings of a good solve. If a solve isn’t sufficient, there’s really no point in looking there.

    • I like your idea of “sufficient”, and I suspect that is what Forrest means by “confident”….as contrasted with certain. I don’t think Forrest means “certain” when he said “confident”, but rather, well vetted against the poem.

    • Jeremy P.
      Valid points, but for you to go search you would not have to be 100% certain just meet your above criteria. It would therefore be reasonable to assume that this criteria is different for everyone?
      I am trying to determine a what point is it reasonable to pack the bags and go with confidence that you will find the treasure? Would you go with the knowledge that you have 5 maybe 6 clues right and hope that being there would reveal more or do you have to have all 9? Knowing that at the ninth clue you should be able to see what you are looking for?
      jl

      • JL,

        Jeremy did raise some good point, but I don’t see 100% meets “sufficient.” I don’t really think anyone can be 100% sure of almost anything with out proof…
        The reasonable for me, would be if I can realistically locate a Garage size area. Anything more raise questions in my mind ~ personally.

        You said, would you go with 5 or 6 clues…? I won’t speak for Jeremy or anyone else… I wouldn’t. One major factor is distance and cost… maybe if I was single and had fun money available, sure. But 1/2 of a solve is not enough for me when we’ve been told Precisely, lead to the chest.

        That’s just me. I’m sure folks from Africa, UK, China etc. would love to spend a few weeks to search as well … location location location.

        • For my first boots on the ground search, I want to have the blaze as the only clue left.

          With backups for Nopaddleheavyloadwatershigh Creek.

          • Joe,

            I think that comment is dead on…..I’ve only been studying the clues for about 6 months, but I would never go in person (and I only live 200 miles away) until I believe I have sufficient evidence of all clues solved EXCEPT the blaze. My personal opinion is that the blaze must be found in person (not via map or anecdotal evidence) and I think it’ll be very obvious if you’re in the right place.

        • Yeah, it all depends on the person searching. I wouldn’t go with 5 or 6 clues, but that’s only because I live so far away. If I lived in one of the four states, I’d probably be out every weekend just seeing what comes of a single clue.

          @JL –

          On confidence/certainty… This is what I was saying over in the other thread about fortune favoring the bold. EVERYONE should go with 100% confidence! If you don’t think it’s at least possible, don’t play. But certainty and confidence seems to be thrown around interchangeably and they are not the same thing.

          If FF whispered in your ear the exact coordinates of where he put the thing, you still couldn’t be 100% certain. After all, he may be pulling your leg.

          I do say: be bold! Just realize that being bold, in itself, is probably not sufficient to find the treasure.

          • Jeremy P.,
            I like your logic, and agree that a person needs to be bold. I would not want to be the one that had solved the clues but didn’t have the confidence to go get. Then discover you were right because the person who finds it later tells exactly where it was.
            There is also a difference between confidence and humble, be humble enough to know there is a part of the equation you might have missed, but confident enough to know you have looked at from every possible angle that you can see.
            Double check your work before you turn in your paper.
            jl

          • I’ll add my opinion on this, frist off a perfect solve is a matter of opinion not sure if any but 1 could be called that. Now, when should one put boots on the ground? There are a lot of factors to take into consideration, how far one needs to travel, the amount of time one has to search, aswell as enough capital to make your search yeild information(no need going searching if you only have money to search for one day). Well how about how much of a sovle one should have? IMO at least 2/3 of a solve but I’m one to go a little over board, when I go out again in spring I will most likely have 2-3 almost complete solves aswell 4 or 5 indivdual clues I will be looking into. If i’m going to an area I’d perfer to know as much about it as possible so first search is more of a search for info than the chest. Boots on the ground never seems the same as an armchair search but I am one of the lucky searchers that lives in the search area.

  48. Hi all,
    Maybe someone who knows FF’s physical strength could answer this.. Do you think he was strong enough to:
    Follow an easy to moderate-level hiking trail for about 1.4 miles at 9,000′ elevation to hide the treasure? Of course he made two trips, so the whole trip around 5.6 miles? It would make me ‘tired & weak’, but do you think F could pull it off?

    • I believe he stated once that it was less then a few from the car, but I don’t have the quote. Maybe seeker or locolobo could help you with that. It is a good question but there is truly know way to know with any certainty.IMO
      jl

      • Yes… less than a few miles is correct, however he said that’s how long it took to “hide the treasure” . there was no “absolute” answer as to whether that was less than a few for ONE of the two trips or both combined…. hope that helps.

        • Thank you both. I hiked it twice and each time got altitude sick at days end. It took me an hour to get in. I really want to go back, because I think I just missed it, but started to wonder if F could do it at 79?? I also think he could HIDE it in an afternoon, like he said, but not if that included the hike time back out. (Maybe that is why he said bring a flashlight). I am also wondering if the words in the poem, …tired and weak… meant that he could once do it ‘tired’ but now he was too weak to do it again. (I am afraid that the poem might lead us to the area he loved, but because of a lack of strength, he couldn’t go that far and had to hide it closer to his car.

          • David –

            In my opinion – he did not go that far.

            1. He didn’t have to ….
            2. It’s not in close proximity to a human trail.
            3. It was done in an afternoon

            Happy Hunting !

          • I have always considered he could have walked out in the dark, he said he made two trips and it was done in one afternoon. That tells me 6 hrs max. but once the treasure is hid, you could consider it is done. Maybe the trip out is not included in the 6 hours. IMO
            jl

          • PS David –

            Altitude sickness is nothing to mess around with ….. Eat food while hiking – drink water and most of all, rest a day at that altitude before doing anything strenuous.
            I don’t know if you did – but you shouldn’t go alone.

          • I blame half of my failed searches on altitude. 🙂 Water and rest are definitely important. Being a flatlander, I didn’t realize that at first. Now I plan a full day to acclimate (which probably isn’t enough, but it’s more than I gave myself at first).

          • Martin –

            Thanks for backing me up on that – I have heard of horses dying after being trailered up from Texas. It is serious. Granola bars are good to eat as they provide a bulk and something sweet. Keep them in a tin or zip lock to ward off bears. Good Luck in your adventure.

  49. Ithechase, I did go alone the last time. And had a momma moose and two calves wade up the creek and right past me, no more than 30′ away!. Scared the heck out of me as I had absolutely nowhere to run. Got a great picture and a better story to go along with it! It was a surreal experience -To see the whites of mommas eye when she heard me unvelcro my camera bag. (a dumb move on my part, I know)
    The altitude sickness hit me at the end of the day when I was back at camp. I did EVERYTHING before hand to prevent it, but it still hit me. (I think exhaustion and the 15 hour drive was the reason). The extra excitement from the moose didn’t help!
    So my mind wasn’t right and I ended up cutting short and getting to lower altitude, immediately. (I imagine F is a little more acclimated..)

    • Wow, cool side story. Good move on getting lower. I reminder camping in the Sierras at 9500 as a kid with my dad and being sick for two days,, doing nothing. We were living in Subs of LA so “flat lander kid” to 9500 = dry heaves. Not a good time.

  50. I just re-read RLS’s “Treasure Island” for the first time in, oh, about four decades. I loved it as a kid, but had forgotten most of it. It’s still a hoot.

    • Possibly because he thinks like an artist, and artists usually like to change things up, face a new challenge, try something different. That’s a blue sky theoretical subjective opinion.

        • I’m debating getting a metal detector. To me, “look quickly down” might mean under feet. Its just that the Rockies are, well, rocky! I would rather just turn over stones and look in crevices… But stones move from ice and fire-pit builders…
          If its buried, we need to be spot on, or could be digging all day.

          • Ya, From the way my clues have been working out I’m in starting to think maybe its buried. When I was a kid we used to use grain shovels as sleds. Maybe FF drug the chest into where he buried it, would be easier then carrying it. All IMO

          • Fenn was a pilot for many years & probably flew allot without oxygen in his own plane. My friend Holmes said 9,000′ should be a piece of cake for him at this age.

          • If it’s buried – you don’t need to be spot on if he left a marker there ………. You only need to be within 12ft – like he said.

            The coordinates take you close but , IMO there is a ground game to be played after finding those – which can be verified on GE. So there is a lot more to this than just finding the coordinates.

            I’ve always thought a metal detector was a good idea – he said it might help if you are in the right spot. I would rather have it and not need it – than not have it and need it.

  51. Ok I figured GE. But does anyone know if FF said anything about only
    Needing to be within 12 feet?
    BTW Jake, no worries. Different place than yours!

    • I am paraphrasing here… he said something to the effect of; I can’t imagine a searcher being within 12 feet of the chest and not finding it. IMO… from my recollection.

      • Iron and Chesney, thank you. And I’ll see about you getting some dust if the BLM doesn’t confiscate it first! God bless and be safe out there!

        • No worries David k , I spent the last week of September through the middle of November in my HOB. I have my treasure from that adventure. I am not doing it for the money.

          • Chesney, same here. Our treasure is found. And this is just fun. Although I think f’s treasure is same. And that keeps me interested to find out.

          • @Yiga…No camper. I did what Mr. Fenn said to do. I took my 99 chevy silverado pickup truck and a sleeping bag and pillow in the back seat. I did not find Indulgence, but I had a Blast being out there.

          • I love it out in the Wood!!! Thank you though! I believe there could be others that have exceeded my stay at a place.

          • I wish I could follow everything thing ff said to do, but no gold in my hands so I need to refine something. But I am also 6’4″ ……not gona fit in the back seat. But sounds like you had a great time. As for the outdoors, I just love the out doors, it’s medicinal. But for me there is a difference between deer hunting in a snow storm and sleeping in one. Bbbrrrrrr! IMO of course 🙂

          • Chesney,

            Pillow? you’re spoiling yourself. lol. Next you’ll want a propane stove and a small gas generator to plug in your MR. Coffee. Just funnin with ya…

            Thinking about Fenn and Donny on horseback with bedrolls, a rifle and a couple candy bars [ yeah, I know…they were about 15 or so, and full of vinegar ] I would have like to have heard that conversation… Hey Mom, Pop, Donny and I will be gone a couple weeks gonna go look for the Lewis and Clark’s trail. Ok Son, Just be back before the end of August, we leave with or without you…And don’t eat a porcupine, if you don’t have to, they taste like kerosene. How many kids would even give that a try today? and how much would they be charged for camping permits, just to wonder around mother nature?

            Well. Now that I think about it, I’d bring my pillow as well… I’m not 15 anymore either.

    • David K

      Your right about google earth and here is the quote from the 12 feet remark.

      “Second, I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.” FF

      And your welcome too………..

    • I hope your place is different than mine, because my place is mine ONLY!
      OK, hopefully Fenns place to.
      There was a comment/email by Fenn in Forrest’s Scrapbook Seventy Eight below is the link, but you can go to the upper right hand side of this page & I think most pages here on Dal’s site you will see a link called Forrest’s Scrapbooks where there is allot of gooood information.

      PS: Stay away from our spot!

  52. Just saw the weekly FF whisper from Jenny’s FB page: “If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather”

    • WOW, that almost screams to me its in a Southern part of the Rockies, Most everything above 5000′ around here is covered in about 6″ of snow and just gets deeper, 10000′ = 24-36″ IMO
      jl

      • I think key word is ‘precisely’ as it wouldn’t matter about being overcast, rain, sleet,snow what ever, shadows for seasonal blazes etc wouldn’t matter if you knew precisely, you could go in on a snow machine or fly in with skis, just take a medal detector and snow shove, maybe ice auger and dry suit, anything is possible!….is YNP open to snow machines? IMO Does make me wonder!

        • Yes, Blaze, YNP is open to snow machines. But we should be a little careful with this latest statement, IMO. A blinding blizzard could occur anywhere in the Rocky Mountains. If you can’t see where to go, then you can’t find the treasure, even if you know precisely where it is at. A severe ice storm or snows in excess of three feet could make the terrain physically impassible, and that could happen anywhere in the Rocky Mountains. Roads could be shut down due to earthquakes, floods or avalanches (or even government shutdowns). So I think this is one not to take absolutely literally.

          Is it a hint? Anything is possible.

    • With the use of “probably” i don’t see much value in this statement. But fenn does like to use the word presicely when it comes to the treasures location.

      • Count, I agree completely. Probably? Really? There is no clue here IMO. Fenn uses the word “you”. Who is he making this statement to? Did someone ask him a question for this response? If “you” is searchers, then the the statement is false because there are searchers that can only search the internet due to health problems & other personal problems. Is he stating that Jenny is “you”.

        I can see how Fenn has people going & talking in circles like himself.
        I am sure he’s getting a big kick out of all of this 🙂
        He better enjoy it because someones going to find it within the next few years.
        IMO

        • Jake,

          I think you’re being a bit too literal. Sure there are folks involve with the poem and cannot physically search. “You” is a general …search community…imo.
          Fenn also has said.. no more clues. Could he change his mind? sure. But I don’t think of any of these as “Clue” Not by FF definition of a clue anyways. Interesting sure. just saying.

          • Maybe I should have used the word hint instead of clue. We as a community have to pick apart everything he says & come to a conclusion that it is either a hint & useful info or vague statements that don’t help with the chase & possibly could hurt your chances of finding TC.
            We all have our own opinions but I would have to say that this statement falls into the vague category & does not help & would better serve searchers to throw it away.

            BTW, would a word in the poem as an example “halt” could be 4 different words like “Hike Along Lazy Trail” or would this be considered out IYO?

          • Jake,
            I’m glad you said that. The overall comments seem to match others over the years… ignore the poem, ignore the first clue, don’t dwell enough…
            Winter is approaching, waiting for spring, probably in weather…
            Precisely , know exactly, information in the poem…
            Yet we all seem a little disappointed when something doesn’t match what we think of as a clue. I mean, it’s been five years and we still want more, throw us a bone, wishing and hoping… could it be that we just really need to buckle down and put even more “thought” into the poem.

            I’ll be the first to admit, I do not look at the poem as a step by step [ for a short time in the beginning I did. I have a 100 of those and all lead to a pin point location ] But I see in almost all comments from us on every blog, the same thought process, with very little variation. This challenge is slightly different then most modern challenges or treasure hunts… for one, the lump sum of the win, and the possibility of that growing overtime. Most not all, are much less in reward monetarily, and we have the Author who is participating nearly weekly, if not daily.

            How much more can he say to such a large community, World wide, without tipping the apple cart? Fenn as been very cautious imo over those 5 years, and has not faltered… is that what we are looking for? hoping for?
            Two things I have read many times in many ways over the years; “Will not intentionally mislead…” “Will not aid a seeker…” Honestly, I personally hope he sticks to his guns with those statements, and hope he continues with more of his stories.

            Jake this is not directed to you, just something that has been weighing on my mind for a while, and your post impressed.

            Yeah, I know … I won’t be getting many Christmas Cards after this. That’s fine, I’m on holiday till after New years anyways.

          • Seeker, Is it safe to say everything other than the poem & the 4 clues on his website are clues? And everything in his books (TTOTC & TFTW) there are hints to help with the clues in the poem? His statements through email from others are also hints? Can we trust this type of communication when they are not giving us all the info at once they receive it? I think that when Fenn gives a single entity info or statement to be published, it should be done in a timely manner, unless Fenn states otherwise. For every bit of info we receive through gateways we seem to be a bit behind but nevertheless I hope we all will get the statements at the same time, which doesn’t seem to be the case. I think Fenn would not give useful information to an entity alone unless it is for safety. But such info could also be useless IMO.

          • Jake,
            When asking these type of questions I feel that its best to seek out the answers within the poem “I can keep my secret where”. Don’t expecpt fenn to uncover anything, I believe most of what he says after the poem has been published is to enjoy the chase but not be a searcher. This way he can interact with the chase better then ignoring everyone and distancing himself from the chase. I believe he does it for the fun, I know I would If I created the chase. And as far as the books go who really know? Forrest does.

          • Yes Count, Go back to the poem because all you need is the poem! My 6th or so solve is complete now, it took longer than the others but 12 costly flights this year has put me in a financial bind. This solve is all about the poem. It is straight forward with a few changes in direction but nonetheless it puts you below a labeled waterfall. It is good to pick apart Fenn’s words but the bottom line is the poem. I wish I could take another flight soon because the TC is available in any whether as long as you know where it is IMO.

  53. Last one was shut your engine off till spring? Does Jenny have a bunch of quotes hidden away and just picks one out each week? These seem to be contradictory statements, but knowing Forrest I bet they are not. I’m betting that these are not clues at all. If I knew where the treasure was I’m not sure any amount of snow would stop me. If anything the road you would drive to the spot is probably closed this time of year, but that could be anywhere in the Rockies so again not helpful. IMO

    • I don’t think FF would make this statement unless he had thought about the consequences. It could possibly lead someone deep into the mountains and if you don’t know what you are up against and have lots of winter experience it could have a disastrous results. imo
      jl

      • As much as I would agree JL, it’s not ff responsibility for our stupidity. This reminds me of knowing beforehand and not playing a hunch. It also seems to eliminate underwater IMO. Yet obviously can get wet. Even, no real need for a metal detector if you can precisely locate the spot beforehand.

        Well that is if you read it straightforward.

        • This is a lot like the statement Forrest made about waiting for spring. I feel there is useful info hiding along the edges of his statements. Like an implied meaning not clearly stated. The “weather” is not what will stop you from taking the chest, but it will stop you from following the clues to the chest. Therefore unless you have the exact location saved in your gps you should not go searching till spring.

      • I would say that no one besides f “knows” where the chest is and while the meaning of weather conditions and seasonal conditions have some overlap, weather conditions does not mean winter season.

        It doesn’t matter what f said, it only matters what we think he said.

        • JCM,
          Good point, weather may not keep you from retrieving it but snow depth would, and even then if you knew the precise location you could remove the snow. I think F likes yankin everybody’s chain. So to speak, but not in a mean way. IMO
          jl

          • It snowed at my place, I woke up to a whit blanket. Now where did I park the car…hmmm. just kidding. My point is, you would be hard pressed to see any thing that were on the ground, unprotected. Just can’t see it, even if you know. Plus, it’s dangerous in a lot of places in the snow. It can get real serious, real quick.

          • I hope it’s not getting old.
            I know it’s not with me.
            Your story needs to be told.
            Just let it be.

            A dreamer believes
            A quiterbhe grieves
            and so tells his tales of woe.
            But he who achieves
            what his dreaming conceives
            Has no limit to where he may go.

          • JL,
            What if treasure was very near a creek where the snow would not be a factor.
            You could walk up the creek without worrying about snow but would have to have waiters. Fenn states in the poem “There’ll be no paddle up your creek”

      • Jake, That would be dependent on temperature, I have seen major rivers freeze over in the winter when you get a week of below 0 temps. You can also fall thru the ice if it ice’s over. Under the right conditions it might be doable, depends on the current and depth. Might be easier to just trudge thru the deep snow, but that will wear you out fast also.IMO
        JL

        • JL, have you ever seen the middle of a river, creek or stream freeze?
          As long as it is moving, it will not freeze. Stay in the middle of the creek if you do not want to walk on the white stuff. Been there done that several times in the White Mountains in the winter during -20 deg below freezing. Know what your talking about unless you have been there.

          • Well jake,
            I don’t sit around and watch em freeze but I have seen them where they are completely iced over, and the water is running underneath them. They get slick to walk on and you will find a spot where the ice wont support you. But if you are determined to go look don’t let me talk you out of it. good luck imo
            jl

          • All IMO… are we all supposed to believe that Mr. Fenn,would put a broze chest that is lined with wood inside, in the water for possibly 1000 years or so? Don’t see him doing that, would not stand the test of time. And elevated water level in the spring in the Rockies, move rocks and trees that weigh a lot more than the chest. All IMHO.

          • It seems as if several searchers have done their homework, as well. Jake, this Chase is about having fun, and utilizing imagination you forgot you had. I believe you said in the past it was not about the loot, because you were already rich. I have a job that pays well, but is stressful. Not in need of a Pity Party, and don’t need for it either… He (Mr. Fenn) will not aid a searcher, and I will hold that until I am gone. If he puts a hint out, he does it on a blog so everyone gets it. He keeps it fair to all. I wish all of you that are in the search , the find of a lifetime. If someone finds Indulgence tomorrow, may you never cease to look for your Treasure in life. God Speed and Happy Holidays… Chesney

          • Big hint, but not really. Lots of peeps & searchers know this.
            1st clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” Been there done that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT9KYW6dv1s Many more vids to see it wasn’t there but thinking TC may be at the beginning. Not only did I search but also went in to cool waters in early October thinking the TC was there.
            Firehole river where Ojo calente pours into Firehole creating a warm bathing area, then if you step back a few feet, the water is cold……Hence- Begin it where warm waters halt…. river bathing is best TFTW. “Take it in the canyon down” Firehole canyon is the second clue IMO but I am pretty sure because of the home of Brown is a change of direction. You can go straight, Right, or left. I think I will go left towards West Yellowstone IMO. Pretty straight forward for those who think that way, don’t you think?

          • Jake, I am not attempting to mislead you here. I may or may not have been the searcher closest to the chest. I will never tell if I were to be lucky enough to find it. Google pics of the chest, not just wood inside, but wonderful veneer. Would he chance that getting destroyed in 1000 years? And there is the Sinue (sp) neclace that its core would disolve in water. Just curious. All IMO.

          • My bad Ches,
            I should be more observant & listen to what credible searchers are saying (like yourself). The pics I see of the chest are lined with wood. My apologies.
            Have you been where I think the first clue is & went down Firehole Canyon?

          • No worries Jake… the interpretation I had was in a different spot. Good Luck to you. Happy Searching!

          • JL,
            You should watch em freeze, it’s a beautiful site, unlike watching paint dry or grass grow. I was talking with Ron who works in Cody for Town Taxi about a friend who had broke through the ice on the Shoshone River (Stinking Water) a little down stream from Colters Hell and got carried by the current under the ice about 20′ or so & they thought he was gone until he broke through the ice from below. I guess it wasn’t his time.
            My creek doesn’t have that much flow, so I am not worried about it, but I don’t think I will chance it anyway this time of year.

          • so is that 1,2,or 3 clues maybe 4? And chesney was right the chest is lined with olive wood lol. IMO
            jl

          • Thank you JL… I was hoping that I wasn’t just imagining things again. I don’t like those straight jackets! 🙂

          • Chesney,
            Your welcome,
            Ya it is time consuming to get out of the jacket, cuts into my search time.imo
            jl

          • Jake,

            I happen to live where running water freezes over every winter. If it gets cold enough long enough, even the Mississippi freezes over.

            You are correct in that moving water does not freeze, but the water at the edges stops, and then freezes. Then because of friction more water molecules stop and freeze and eventually the edges which are frozen meet in the center until the river is frozen over.

            Never-the-less, it is never absolutely safe to cross a frozen river, because the ice is always changing in thickness. Always have your ice picks on your person in case you go for a polar bear swim.

          • Yes I agree swwot, your right, it depends on the temp, atmo pressure, duration, speed, sun light, salinity, elevation drop and whatever else I missed.
            You should use good judgement this time of year & would not be wise to go up a creek, stream or river, besides if the TC is somewhere very near or in a creek, it would likely be frozen in, surrounded by inches if not feet of ice.
            Well it’s 70 deg where I live on the Treasure Coast right now, Yea, go figure, I live on the Treasure Coast where many Spanish galleons got destroyed off the coast during a hurricane in the early 1700’s, carrying millions of $ of gold & silver & I decide to take flights over a couple thousand miles away to look for treasure.
            What I need is a partner living in Bozeman or West Yellowstone, to team up with & we could look for Fenn’s treasure around there in the summer, then fly back to the TC & search for some of that gold here. NOT!! Unfortunately you will need rights to your area & that costs lots o money along with big expenses for equipment including a decent boat. The state of Florida also has last say & keeps most of the $$$ unless you happen to find gold between the waters edge & the dunes, you cannot keep it.

  54. So I am taking a 2 week hiatus from TTOTC to hunt for the Yule Log! Our museum hides a log every year and writes not 9 but 10 clues based on local history to locate the log. We have found it a few times. Much easier than Mr. Fenn’s 9 clues! Happy Holidaze everyone! Enjoy the season and stay safe out there.

  55. I think I will be taking Forrest’s 2nd words of wisdom to heart and “shut (my) engine off”. His “words” each week will probably help to keep interest up over the winter, and I’ll read them, but I doubt they will be very helpful, at least they haven’t been very helpful to me thus far! Have a great holiday everyone!

  56. Jake,
    That was a wow factor post.
    Never get old, never. It drives me forward. Thanks for that. I needed it. 🙂

    • Jdiggins, I would like to divulge my latest solve to you or others that may be. I would like for you to try & find a way to prove me wrong. You will be able to contact me by the obvious, if you cannot do this, I understand but the others may & will B.

      • Sure jake. I was told not to put my email out there, so I wouldn’t ask you to. Maybe if Dal is okay with it, send him your email to forward to me. I guess. Maybe that’s dumb too. Who knows. :-

    • Now that’s funny, I was just looking at that map last night. My search area has between 20″ – 30″ inches of snow not considering the drifts.

    • we got 3′ of snow over night in central WY @ 6000′ , Roads are closed, county offices are closed along with schools. It took me 4 hours with a jd tractor to open my drive to the county road. If you can search in weather like this I have to concede you are most likely a little crazier then I am. IMO
      jl

  57. How do I stop spam email? with a firewall? Everytime I try, they send me a half dozen more. This site doesn’t give out our email address??

    • No King we don’t give out email addresses to anyone. As far as I know wordpress doesn’t. Log in to your email account and adjust the filters section if it’s a webmail account. If you run a client on your computer there are some good spam blockers out there dependent on which client you have.

      Spam is a pain.

    • Donna,

      Sacha and I met this morning to discuss the contest…since it was recommended by Dal that we hold the contest after the holidays, we will call it the “Winter Contest”. Sacha will write up the details, get it approved by Forrest (since he’s the one footing the bill for the prizes), and then send it to Dal to post. Look for it here a few days after Christmas. cynthia

  58. Please note that there is a new set of interviews with Forrest that has been added under “Forrest Speaks”, on this blog. These are the Air Force Interviews. Forrest was interviewed by the Air Force Association this past summer about his military career. These interviews provide a rich sense of Forrest’s own brand of Texas style humor which might help you better understand his Scrapbooks and even the poem itself.

    • that was pretty awesome for me… I am a warplane geek, not for the war part. I got to fly a Texan upside down in Mt St Helens’ crater. I have video (er, vhs)

      Thanks Dal. Laugh out loud literally, “I had heard about the general’s wife” (
      ~11:50)

      and a couple other other spots where f holds his tongue. Sharp fellah.

      I stayed in the same ROTC barracks at TAMU for a year. I might have crapped in the same….oh jeeesh…communal crappers….brain bleach…

      Dorm 12 if I recall correctly

      • hammer-
        Do you mean the name of that person? No. I never met them. There are two other people in that room with Forrest. One is operating the camera. The other is asking questions.

  59. This is such a good way to describe imagination.
    As I have said before, it is Fenn’s imagination, vs. Our imagination.
    The possibilities of Imagination are endless, even within this chase.
    Forrest’s treasure IS the Rocky Mountains and his long lived life full of adventure and experiences. If the gold is out of his hands, than it is no longer his treasure, as he is giving it away to someone who can find it. It is now going to be someone elses treasure when they find it. Use your imagination to Find it. He is showing us where his treasure is, to find the treasure chest he hid.
    Start by using the poem, and reading the stories. I think everything else can be thrown out the window. Just like his lost ball of string, and such. I find it very assuring for myself that no one is really searching outside the Rocky Mountain Range. I think you will only find Forrest’s treasure there, and not the treasure he left for us to seek.

    Thanks

  60. Take a GPS. I have often wondered about this statement on Forrest’s web site.
    Why do we need to take a GPS??, are we looking for coordinates.Does anyone else think this is a strange statement??
    Thanks, Sally2fleming.

    The paragraph below is from his web page.

    This book is the remarkable true story of Forrest Fenn’s life and of a hidden treasure, secreted somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe. The book contains clues to the treasure’s location as Forrest Fenn invites readers to join in The Thrill of the Chase. If you are searching for Forrest’s treasure please stay safe, take adequate supplies and a GPS. The chest is not in a dangerous place. Remember, it weighs 42 pounds and an old man carried it to its secret location. Keep your children close in the mountains and search at your own risk. Good luck in the chase.

    • Sally,
      I think Fenn made statements like that is for your own safety. He knows people are searching in areas that are not where the treasure is, so you will need all sorts of stuff to be safe. I don’t think you will need GPS where the treasure is except for knowing exactly where you found it, to give Fenn the coordinates that he has saved, right down to the “

      • Last night I sent Mr. Fenn an email of the exact coordinates of where the poem led me…I said that confirmation would be nice as well-I’m still waiting for confirmation…

        • That’s funny Jeremy,
          My mother also sent him coordinates where she thinks the treasure is last week, she was unable to go any further. I told her to wait until summer when I can go there & get the TC for her.
          I don’t think she got a response from Fenn either.
          I wonder how many people have done this? Hundreds? Come on people, put you hands up if you have done this.

      • Jake,
        You are probably correct about being safe and people going where they shouldn’t go. Yes elevation readings is a good idea, i had forgot about that.

        I think Forrest knows the exact coordinates, if anything i believe it would be best used in a picture sitting beside the chest once you find it so you will satisfy everyones curiosity, before it is removed from its hiding place.

    • @Sally I do believe that you need a GPS, and I also believe we are looking for coordinates. My opinion. RC.

      • RC
        I believe you are right, FF said something like, no one would find it on a Sunday stroll in the woods..I believe it is going to take finding 8 or 9 places and coordinating them with a GPS. Just my 2 cents worth though, I have changed my mind several times in the last 2 years.

    • sally-
      I’ve never thought it was a strange statement. For those not familiar with where they are traveling a GPS can get you back to your car no matter how twisted around you are in the woods. A simple GPS and the knowledge to use one are wonderful modern tools that can keep folks from getting lost. If there is no trail in close proximity to where you are looking a GPS can save you a great deal of anxiety as the sun begins to set.

      A great GPS game for kids is to hide something out in an open meadow…like a silver dollar. Mark it with the GPS and then give the GPS to the kids and have them go find it. This teaches them how to use a GPS to find something…do that a few times with them….next, every time you go camping mark your campsite with the GPS…when you hike around give the kids the GPS so they can see where they are in relation to the campsite all the time..teach them how to use it to measure distances and let them get confident with it…

        • Woody-
          Why did your batteries run out?
          I put fresh batteries in my GPS and my flashlight on every trip. I also check the oil in Esmerelda, keep the tank full, replenish my supply of red licorice and take along dry socks. The boy scouts said it best…Be Prepared!

          • I guess I’m just old school. Lots of reasons batteries and equiptment got wet during a monsoon storm . I stayed in the mountains to long and turned on my GPS or forgot to turn it off .. A number of reasons. I don’t really need it I’m never lost.

          • I guess I would have made a good Boy Scout, I take a compass in case the gps breaks or quits working. I used a compass for years and it never let me down. I have had gps give me wrong readings and not lock on satellites before. Most the time I dont need either one.
            jl

          • One of the best attributes of the cheap little GPS is that it keeps track of where I’ve been. When I get back to my computer I pop the tracks from the GPS into my Garmin mapping program and can see pretty precisely where I’ve walked overlayed on the topo map for after-the-fact analysis. When I take photos I can see exactly on the topos where I took those out-of-focus shots from..
            It’s a good aid for me because I do a lot of post analysis when I am finished scouring the countryside for Forrest’s chest…I also find the process entertaining and illuminating…better than collecting stamps… 🙂

          • It sure is fun to look back on…lot of information to be learned from your tracks! Definately is a plus, I use 2 GPS and a…well, nevermind. Good tool tho…

          • source-
            Everything fails eventually..including trees, cliff faces, airplanes, my shirt, my GPS and my compass. Be prepared!
            But I haven’t had any trouble with the dozens of GPS units I’ve been using over the past..I don’t know..18 or so years. I can say this. They have gotten better and better. The newest ones see through a lot of canopy and even quite a bit of roof structure. Frankly my boots wear out more often than my GPS does…
            The next generation of GPS devices promise even more interesting capabilities…
            I think that for a family who is out in the woods…a little hand held GPS and the knowledge to use it properly are a great $90 investment.

      • Dal, Great Practical Skills for teaching GPS.

        When hiking off trail, in backcountry it’s also important to visually note key landmarks on the horizon and in close proximity so you can visually get out of the mountains in a hurry if someone gets hurt.

        (Constantly gazing for the blaze or treasure may leave a deficit in your exit strategy).

        We always leave car keys hidden under a rock not far from vehicle so they don’t fall out of a pocket or pack while searching. Since Esmerelda is famous in the Rockies, you may wish to find a remote rock…if she’s a keeper 🙂

        Merry Christmas, and thanks for your excellent blog.

      • Dal

        That would be a great way of teaching, I bet your grand kids enjoy camping trips with you. I bought a Garmin after my last search, i have played with it a little but will be sure that i know what i am doing with it before my next search this coming summer.

        I never understood what the misplaced garmin statement was on your search story,did you do something wrong? I couldnt figure out what you had misplaced.

        Also I want to thank You and Goofy for this great blog, You both do a great job, and have alot of nice people commenting on your site. I hope i will meet you this summer during my trip to NM.
        Sally2

        • sally-
          I’m not sure which story that was in. Can you share the link to it…and I’ll see if I remember what I was talking about..

          • My take on that comment was that the whole Tres Piedras idea was bankrupt. Even when I visited him after searching I think he laughed when I told him where I had been…

            It never occurred to me that he thought the coordinates were wacky…I figured he thought the whole “Indian legend” idea that I used to end up at Tres Piedras was what he was poking fun at..a little bit to much imagination!!!

          • Ok Thanks, I thought your imagination was great and you detective work even better, enough determination to sit for hours and listen to the tapes.

            When i searched google earth for the tres piedras, it gave me coordinates a couple of miles different than the ones you used but i imagine it covers many miles.

            Keep up the hard work, persistence and dedication, you sure have that plus a boat load of Smarts. Good luck to you on your next search.

  61. RE GPS, does anyone know if two GPS’s can communicate with each other? So, two searchers can see where each other are located out in the field? If not some one should create it! I’m sure the military has it…..

    • Two GPS smart phones could. Unfortunately, the way mobile phones work, they aren’t the ideal device in low signal areas. Although smart phones are GPS enabled, which works without cell service, the process to retrieve a location is expensive on the battery and it takes awhile to process. To make it more efficient, they first try to figure out where you are in relation to the towers using cell service, then rely on GPS if that information isn’t correct. This works great in populated areas where there’s more coverage. It’s pretty quick and accurate. But the result in low signal areas is that it’ll probably mark you far away from where you really are, and take awhile to update.

      If your area has good coverage, there’s an app for two searchers to see each other’s locations. Several, actually. Just use keywords like friend locator or something similar in the app store.

      Also, a good safety tip is to carry your smart phone with you, regardless of it’s actual accuracy, and enable features like “Find My Phone” and share that with someone so that if you do go missing they have at least a general idea of where you were.

    • Cholly I use a DeLorme inReach Explorer; it is capable of that. I’ve not used it that way but there are some search and rescue teams that are set up with them.

      I haven’t researched it but I believe there are other gps units that are capable of short range communication; it would require a transmitter to be incorporated into the unit and would be dependent on the terrain on how useful they are.

        • Cholly,
          The garmin Rino series can do what you are looking for. I have the 655t, it has a 2 way radio for comunications and you can create a fiels name with another rino and it will show on the display here that one is at. You can also tellit to navigate to the other persons position. They also have camera’s which is nice, so basicly you have gps, communication and camera in one devise.
          jl

          • Thanks JL, Jeremy P, and again Goofy, need to arrange that sky hook when I find the TC! Seems like a smart thing to have and learn to use. A little pricey for stocking-stuffier….thinking if I don’t take the kid snow skiing we can swing a few new toys, lol! P.S. More comics please Jeremy P…..

    • The end is ever drawing nigh?
      Looks like a drawing of a spiral galaxy below the J?
      I hope there was a creek near by you couldn’t paddle up.
      Very interesting DP.

        • Yes uken2it,
          I believe Fenn had spoke about the Coriolis effect & the direction indicates that was created in the northern hemisphere. I was wondering if there are glyph’s like this in the southern hemisphere spinning in a counterclockwise direction from the center going out?

    • Could be E.J. …. and off to the side looks like a petroglyph of maybe an indian, standing on a inverted triangle… with sprial (sun?) on the left and a fish? on the right?

    • There was a creek there. Will, I think the fish is a turkey. Thanks Jdiggins, I will keep an eye out for those!

  62. Three “anniversaries” this week. 2,4,7…
    And Christmas. What an awesome week to celebrate, and then a brand new year!
    :):):);):)
    Happy, Happy, Happy, Merry and Happy.

  63. IMO:
    “If you’ve been wise”
    Wise = sage
    been wise = be in sage

    It is something that I pondered a long time ago. I just thought of it again.
    FF said that the area the chest is in would have the scent of sage, pine, and in view of the mountains. He also recently said that he would put a sprig of sage in envelopes that he sent to clients.
    IMO–the chest is in/near sage.

    • Michael, I remember you mentioning this before and i agree. Plus after reading another searchers story about the size of a sage bush and poking it with a stick I decided to take a metal detector with me when I go on my search. I don’t think it’s buried but I want to be able to use it on any sage bushes I run across plus there might still be snow on the ground the last week of April.

        • How close is near?
          I guess it depends on your perspective at a point in time IMO.
          Even very near only tells you that it is closer than near I think.

          • Proximity?
            What scale are you using? is it foot to inches or foot to miles or maybe .0625″ to 100 miles. Like I said it’s all about what Fenn was thinking when it comes to wording IMO.

          • I’m following Jake’s logic here Michael H. It seems wood to you may just be a woodland or forest, So lets skip other possibilities of wood… how large is this forest? If the chest was on a ridge, one might see miles of woodland. The other thing is proximity to that area… what is close to one is far for another [ I’m not talking walking distance as much as line of sight ]. The other problem is what is considered a human trail? A paved road, a beaten path, a bridge, a mountain passage?

            There are too many variables involved that we just don’t know to even make an educated guess, so what’s missing?. Yet we have precisely as well… some of the precise and close proximity we have heard from searchers range from 100 yards to a square mile or more. One person would say that is near / close, where I would say… good luck with that. So is the poem that ” vague ” that even when near/close we still have a large area for the need to flip a stone or roll a log, check behind all those bushes, look in every crevice, behind ever waterfall…

            Is Nigh: as meaning near, 1 foot,1mile, 100 miles? How far down a canyon? How far is too far? How long is it to hoB? How far is up a creek? Even how far is it when one looks down? Is there a distance to be know of between New and Old? Can distance of time be involved…

            This whole poem is about distance, and yet the guessing of those distances are all over the place. How is a searcher supposed to “travel” without a preset distance? And without a set of distances go by, shouldn’t it be logical that those points be line of sight, for the poem [nine clue] to be followed precisely?

            Or do we have to travel at all? If we have all those questions about distance and no answers thus far, are those distances even useful? or an overall view [ for lack of a better term ] of what we need to see / know.

  64. Each loop of a spiral returns back to the place it started…..wiser and more spiritually enhanced.

    Kind of like poetry and prose might.

  65. “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results,” Albert Einstein. “How many times is Albert Einstein fly his kite before he got to the result he knew would eventually happen?” happy new year everyone.

    • one more thing tonight… this has nothing to do with my present solve, I wish it did. I find this so compelling, but I don’t know how to start over anymore with this process, maybe just not at this time. I remember two winters ago trying to translate terms into and from the Shoshone language- but who was i to enter. Nonetheless, maybe someone out there finds this useful… Dunanda is a Shoshone term meaning ‘straight down.’

  66. Weekly Words from Forrest: Dec. 25th, 2015: (via Jenny’s FB page)
    .
    *Plan a warm place into which you can retreat. Merry Christmas
    .

    • I was just given a Survival book that contains such information:
      “Natural caves are always a good option, though you must be careful of other creatures that may have the same idea.”
      “Try to find areas that are naturally proteckted from severe weather, but avoid building deep in the woods. Deep woods take a long time to dry out and don’t get much sun. Try to stay on the leeside, or sheltered side, of woods, mountains, and other protective features of the landscape.”
      good book

      • You forget to mention you need a map of the Gallatin to get your fire started, don’t eat porcupine & pine needle coffee is as good for you as castor oil.
        Merry Christmas

  67. With Forrest weekly words it does seem like he’s concerned for searchers this time of the year. This is my frist year searching so I’m unaware if forrest does this from year to year. I think most searchers that don’t know what the rockies are like in the winter believe they can retrive the chest in winter, but the rockies are unforgiving in the winter. Without knowing persicelly where it is you couldn’t retrive it in the winter and if you know persicelly where it is why wouldn’t someone go last fall? It seems like most of what forrest says about the chase lately is not a clue or hint but just safety advise IMO.

    • Imo these are big clues but it would not be smart to go on a search in the snow unless you live close to the precise location

    • If u have 15-20k worth of equipment then anytime is a good time but if you don’t then spring, fall, summer and winter are all a bad time IMO if your enjoying yourself that’s what counts!

      • Once anything of small size is covered in 2 feet of snow it can be 100x harder to find and with the poem being very difficult to solve doesn’t sound like the odds are in any searchers favor during the winter season to find the chest.

        • Mr. Count that we are in agreement about. Somedays I see red other days green, just depends on the filtur. Michael D sounds to me like the searcher getting close from what I could gather his confidence level is high and what he had to say about the way it was hidden peak my interest. Mr. Count that is precisely why expensive equipment is necessary unless you like playing the ): slots can get old if end up at the bottom.

  68. Theory in question: By returning the bracelet, might the rest of the treasure be yours as a finder’s fee?

    • He’s stated that the whole cache is yours if you find it, treasure, bracelet, and all. If you return the bracelet he’s offered to buy it from you.

  69. Posit (assume as a fact; put forward as a basis of argument):

    The clues point to places and/or objects that will expire. Some may endure, but others will certainly fade well within one hundred years. Forrest Fenn designed the challenge to be solved in a few decades, if one can. If not the chest becomes a time capsule lost to the millennia like his jars. The chest was placed to survive the test of time, the solutions to the clues were not.

    (This isn’t an opinion or statement of fact. It’s a talking point to build up or tear apart. Enjoy!)

    • Precisely my thought Jeremy and that is why I think he wants it found quickly before he exits. Preferably by someone who will perpetuate the Chase. If it’s lost as a time capsule then it just becomes a thing of legend which might not be a bad thing. He says he’s ambivalent but I’m not buying that.

      • Ambivalence (“conflicting feelings”) is self-evident in the nature of the chase. Hid a treasure (doesn’t want it found), then wrote a poem to find it (wants it found). I can imagine he goes back and forth on the idea all the time. Over the summer, he told the reporter from California Sunday that he would like it to not be found in his lifetime. Then later he writes things such as “Complacency is the misuse of imagination” which sounds a lot like Dave Stutman’s “Complacency is the enemy of progress”.

        • I think Mr. Fenn can see the positive side of the treasure being found in his life time or later, I believe it will be easier to find in his time due to the fact that he helps in the things he says. Everything is public record and FF doesnt strike me as a man who talks just to hear himself. My Grandfather who has passed would be nine years older then Mr. Fenn, I still find messages in his words today, he wanted to tell me things I am sure he knew I was not ready to understand so he made comments to make me think and find the answers from within myself. IMO
          jl

    • Jeremy, King of ambigty,
      I agree with your supposition. If it’s not solved and found in a matter of decades it becomes a legend and time capsule.

      Contrary to opinions I’ve seen on the blogs…Everything changes including rocks, mountains, rivers, and the terrain/vegetation surrounding them.

      Cases in point:
      1. 1959 Earthquake altered Madison River forever, leveled a mountain, created Quake lake.
      2. 1988 YNP Forrest fire which forever altered a million plus acres [largely due bureaucratic red tape and BLM policy regarding fire prevention – allowing nature to run its course]. In the 1988 fire, it was proven started by kids rather than lightening, but Clinton waited until it was largely torched before calling in firefighters. Too late.

      IMO this presents a strong case for the treasure not resting within YNP or other BLM territory. In State parks, National Forrest Service property, private property – fire prevention and fire extermination are practiced even with lightening fires.

      Forrest apparently planned well for as many scenarios as possible. IMO it would be sweetest for his treasure to be found while forrest could meet the person and help plan perpetuation of another chase for the next generation to enjoy hiking in wilderness sunshine while chasing treasure.

      • I think what I’m curious about and would like to see supported or ripped to shreds is the idea that one or more of the clues *will not* survive the 100 years put forth in this statement:

        “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years…”

        For example:

        “The spot where I hid the treasure was in my mind from the time I first started thinking about the chase… I was going to make it work no matter what.”

        This statement implies that he had a spot in mind and then worked back, finding a path that would get you there. The spot precedes the clues. He made it work, no matter what. “Most of the places” in this path have semi-permanence, as in they were there in the 30s and 40s, and are currently there today, and might be in 100 years. The idea on the table is:

        Because he worked a path, made it work no matter what, did he intentionally, or by necessity, include non-permanent features? What do we have that supports or tears down that idea?

        • Permanent features only stand the test of time, a natural disaster can change or eliminate features that were thought to be permanent. I don’t think any architect for certainty knows that they have built something that can with stand mother nature or natural disaster. IMO
          jl

        • Jeremy,

          I’m not so sure that, ‘the path’ is what he was going to make work no matter what, as much as the spot itself. Yes the poem he worked hard on for many years to satisfy what he want to say and how to say it to work the way he intended. Yet we have no Idea where the chest lays in wait or what if anything was needed to be done there to possibly help hide the chest.

          Remember, If he thought a hundred years down the road or even a 1000, To make it hidden so well that no one would stumble on it, may have been a difficult take in itself. One of his intents was to have the chest found someday… he place the bio in there to tell of this challenge and what it was like in this day and age, even his hair, etc. for future generations.

          {Seriously, what was the real purpose of the hair, and what is the true reason for the mysterious item in the chest, he doesn’t want to talk about}.

          The path is only important to the one searching, but there is no certainty about the path and changes… the more important part would have been the certainty of the location of the chest. Sure logically the clues would/should be something that has already stood the test of time and by most rights do the same from here on.

          I recall a conversation with some about, what if Yellowstone blows or what if a meteor strikes.. My answer was, then the chase is over anyways, so what does it matter if those major events happen. Nothing is certain about the clues whether a small or large area… the most important part.. imo.. would have been the spot of the chest to work no matter what. The discovery of it, even a 1000 years from now was more important. This was to be and may still be fenn’s final resting place for a reason. IMO, more than just a pretty view… it serves a purpose that we don’t know of.

          • I don’t believe for a minute that an acentric millionaire would walk out into wilderness and allow Vultures/Ravens to scatter his bones to the four winds. He must of had some small grotto he was going to climb into possibly a cave was going to be his final gravesite.

          • Thanks, Seeker. I grant that the chest was intended to hide for 1000 years or more (I’ve always considered that the hair was placed for DNA). I’m challenging the assumption that all of the clues were intended to as well, but only because I’m wondering if that assumption stands on solid ground.

            You said, “Sure logically the clues would/should be something that has already stood the test of time and by most rights do the same from here on.” I like logic, so my question is: What logic? Or, what reasons do we have to think that the clues ought to stand the test of time that the chest would?

            Many of the themes surrounding the chase (collectively, the poem and the book) are those of impermanence, things lost in time, things being temporary, people not lasting, and so on. We have several examples of things lost, then popping back up at future points (the jars, French graves, the Rosetta Stone, most of Fenn’s collection, his treasure if it isn’t found).

            It seems just as likely that the clues wouldn’t/shouldn’t stand the test of time, some of them even less than the 100 years, but I admit that I might be missing something. What’s your reasoning?

            (I admit to following your posts, they seem very well thought out :))

          • Jeremy,

            You answered your own question… the jars, the grave or marker etc. They were only “lost” to us as they were hidden from us for a time period. Yet those things were never lost to time, they were and are still there.

            The clues or what the clues refer to can as well. The problem may just be the way we look at what a clue is… a point on a map. Thinking that a single point has to last is impossible to understand… depending on ones point of view of what a point is. If it’s a roadway, No not so much, if it’s a canyon, then sure it’s been around a long time, why would it not be around foe almost the same amount of time. BUT, why stop there and say… ‘I found clue number such and such’? is there a reason for that clue other than just a simple point??

            The first two clues ~ and now possibly the first four clues ~ debate is all about how some seem to indicate the correct clues [ whether by physically being there or just relaying a thought.. doesn’t matter ] Yet they didn’t understand for some reason they got them correct. This has to raise and eye brow to why they didn’t understand the clue. Are clues just points or is there something else needed to be know… such as why they work together. We attempt to see the poem as a whole [ well some of us anyways ] so why is the places the clues refer to separated as point on a map and not looked at as a whole themselves?

            A single meaning in themselves or the big picture affect. Note; don’t take anything I post as my true beliefs or attempting to change your mind… it’s all about different ways of interpreting what we have to work with and what we have been told. I have looked at the poem as BOTG method only or point by point lie mot have, I have looked at the poem from research only aspect to find clues, I have used maps as a tool to find point and place etc, etc, and on and on. What is see is, looking at something in a certain way all the time gets me stuck in a rut, and by doing that it seems I’m missing one thing… how not only the poem works in full but possibly how the clues ‘need’ to work together as well… as a whole.

        • All,
          Just because one believes the clues may be lost over time doesn’t mean that Forrest feels the same. I’ve found something that Forrest published that might imply otherwise and may be a very subtle hint if one can find it. Here it is ” as I surveyed the land that had not changed in a million years ” . I’m not going to say where I found it but with some detective skills it can be found. The place that surveyed seems to be an ideal place to secret a trove.

          • Yep, and it’s not hard to imagine those places as to what a clue refers to in the same manor. Let take it a step future… Example; Lets say Mt. Rushmore is a place a clue refers to. One searcher would say, ok, I need to now travel the canyon down [ BOTG Method]. Another searcher would say, I need to know all about the Presidents, need to know who the Mountain was named after and study him, Have to find date etc etc. [ Research Method ].

            But what do we really have as a clue reference? The Mountain itself, right?

            If a clue in the poem refers to a place, and that place has been around long before someone named it, or someone carved art on it or before some government dedicates it as a national place… what is the reason for the clue in relation to the poem? Just a point on the map? Is this what fenn meant by ” comprehensive knowledge of geography”? IMO there is more to what a clue refers to then just a simple point on a map or the History [ man’s involvement] behind it. The more common factor is how the clues work together, and without the previous typical methods mentioned.

            Is the big picture being over looked because of these method or line of thinking because we want to simplify it so much to make the answers easily “follow” and miss the reason for the place the clues refer to altogether?
            Yep Count, I see the poem the same as you just mentioned… Time past and present and future… and connected to each other.

          • “Land that had not changed in a million years” and “Mt. Rushmore” seem more like broad strokes examples, or a large area. I’m talking more about each single clue, and what reasons do we have to think that each of them are permanent.

            While an undiscovered tomb may lay untouched for 3,000 years (great place to put a treasure), a nine point path to find it is a different story, a completely different story. I don’t know why the two are being equated and assumed to have the same requirements.

          • Jeremy,

            The requirements as you said, is not about size. That is what I think the problem is… to think or believe a clue has to be a small point to be a clue. And I hate to bring it up again but I also think this is confusing to what a clue is to a hint… Because fenn enjoys using the word clue for almost ever comment he talks about. Most like the idea that example stanza two has 4 clues, yep fenn himself said [ paraphrasing, when asked about that stanza ] that sound like 2 or 3 clues right there. Attempting to understand an actual clue vs a hint is one of the biggest problems I personally have, and why I can’t understand how some read only nine line for nine clue. This leave 15 line in the poem as none clue, yet we have been told every word was deliberate. THAT just doesn’t make sense to me why most only look at nine line as clue.

            Ah! and now we’re back to the “difficult by not impossible” hypothetical. Is that why the poem is so hard to understand because we try and simplify it, and eliminated what we “think” are not clues, and solely concentrate on finding nine “points” instead of understanding nine “places”?

          • Seeker,
            You asked a question- Is that why the poem is so hard to understand because we try and simplify it, and eliminated what we “think” are not clues, and solely concentrate on finding nine “points” instead of understanding nine “places”? IMO if a searchers does what Fenn has insructed which is read the poem a lot then read TTOTC do this over and over then read TTOTC very slowly(and reread very slowly if needed). After this one begins to see content and structure within the poem where one once did not. After this, if a searcher trys to identify nine clues within the poem the entirety of a clue may be easyer to see.

          • Count,

            Sure, we have been told to read and re-read both the book and the poem. We have been told that every word is deliberate, as well. Have been told all the information is in the poem, we have been told all this in many ways. Yet my point was, why do we still only see nine line as only nine clue?

            I say, imo, because we attempt to simplify the poem by looking at what makes the most simple sense, and by doing so, are we actually missing a true clue? or even a hint? Stanza 6 has been talked about for being just a finalizing of the poem or holds no real clues etc. Some even suggest that hear me all and listen good tells us to pronounce words differently [ that thought would be a hint in my book and that fine as well ] But could Brave and in the wood relate specifically to no place for the meek and both being hints/clues to what a place refers to.?

            My example of this would be the CD. Meek being the opposite of brave and Brave related to the term having a ‘back bone’ and now relate that to geography as the back bone of the RM’s to assume that the actual clue is the CD or a single conclusion to a clue. Yet we still have in the wood. Most just simply imply a forest for this, where using the interpretation of the CD… and thinking of what ‘in the wood’ could be differently, as an old saying in the wood was to be in the saddle[ of a horse] and a saddle can be considered an area of a mountain pass… is a geographical area of the CD that contains a saddle of a mountain pass the answer to another clue?

            So in this hypothetical, No place for the meek is answered by the words in stanza 6, with the conclusion of 1 or 2 actual clues, The a saddle mountain pass on the CD leading to a place and a clue, And only using the poem information, keeping the clue in order [ as the clue is no place for the meek’s ~ interpretation] and using the after the fact comments of a none human trail to confirm a good possibility for both, a natural mountain passage and a natural point of a mountain range [ the cd ] as a clue. No need for knowledge of US history, no need to know names of anything [ other than for me to point out a location to you in a conversation ] common knowledge that a Texan with 12 kids and a pickup truck should know [ and everyone else as well ].

            The poem tells you what you need to be looking for and also tells you what the answer is… if you hear and listen to what is being said. That is how I can see the entire poem is needed to be used and not just nine line to understand a clue. For me this is straightforwards in understanding an answer but was difficult to find until read the poem correctly.

            With all that crap said… is that the correct way to solve this poem? Who knows, But I did follow the ” instructions ” imo that have been given all of us. No codes, no latin, no bible verses, [no names needed < my little pet peeve, and that we have been told that ] refers to place that did exist and most like will for a long time, no major research just refreshing what we all should know, no SB's needed to force fit an answer, no after the fact comments needed as a clue, and very very subtle hints from the book as somekinda confirmation etc. etc.

            Or is it that those 15 line of the poem are just fillers?

          • At risk of summarizing poorly, what I’m hearing is “there’s a lot of ways to interpret what a clue is” and “because the chest is designed to be around for a long time, and that the place he chose should survive the test of time, the clues and how to get there should stick around as well.” Is that a fair summary?

            This seems more like personal preference than something that ought to be the case.

          • That is actually a good conclusion Jeremy… we just don’t know for a fact.
            But it still should be considered that if someone could find the chest 1000 years down the road,… because fenn stated that, he thought about 1000 years down the road when undertaking the task of writing the poem and hiding the chest. To dismiss that comment as an impossibility or even far fetch, would imo be a down fall to solving the poem. Not because it the correct way to think, but it is a logical assumption. So why wouldn’t a searcher be looking for the clues to have the same longevity? If you can give me a reasonable and logical explanation not to think about that… honestly that would help me save a lot of time.

          • Seeker wrote–> “Sure logically the clues would/should be something that has already stood the test of time and by most rights do the same from here on.” I like logic, so my question is: What logic? Or, what reasons do we have to think that the clues ought to stand the test of time that the chest would?

            Jeremy P wrote–> ”I like logic, so my question is: What logic? Or, what reasons do we have to think that the clues ought to stand the test of time that the chest would?” “It seems just as likely that the clues wouldn’t/shouldn’t stand the test of time, some of them even less than the 100 years, but I admit that I might be missing something. What’s your reasoning?”
            …………………………………………………..

            Did the same 9 clues exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will they still exist in 100 years and 1000 years?…………….Thanks ~Ron

            Thanks Ron, thoughtful questions
            The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia. The Rocky mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3,009 it will be more difficult for you to find the treasure.f

            ……………………………………………

            Thanks Jeremy, I too would like to understand the reasoning/logic behind the opinion of those who espouse the longevity of the clues?

            Fenn himself says it will be more difficult to find the treasure in 100 years. And apparently, in his opinion, due to probable geographical changes.

            He doesn’t say it might, or could, be more difficult; he says it “will” be more difficult!!. …..but, maybe he is just razzing this searcher? 🙂

            ….or, maybe he just doesn’t understand the meaning of words which he uses?? 🙂

          • Seeker,
            You said: If you can give me a reasonable and logical explanation not to think about that… honestly that would help me save a lot of time.

            I don’t know how it would save you time, but I agree that you can not discount looking 1000 years down the road, so yes logically the clues would have to last that long. But FF said himself that the geography might change, which tells me he planned way into the future but no one has a crystal ball to see what it will look like in 1000 years. They dig up artifacts that go back much farther all the time, by accident mostly but some use clues from geography to locate likely spots. I will only be here a short time longer so I look at it from more of a short term picture, if in the news tomorrow we are old that somewhere in the RM north of Santa Fe something happened to change the landscape then the possibility exists that there where clues located there that are no longer.imo
            jl

          • Seeker: “So why wouldn’t a searcher be looking for the clues to have the same longevity? If you can give me a reasonable and logical explanation not to think about that… honestly that would help me save a lot of time.”

            I gave this some thought.

            I think the best answer that would be reasonable and logical would be that multiple searchers have correctly solved the first two clues, and possibly some have solved up to four clues. The first two were solved early on. I try to keep this in mind: Whatever the solutions to these clues are, they are ones that multiple people would have arrived at, early on.

            At least some of the clues refer to places (Fenn’s words). The longevity you’re suggesting precludes many of the approaches people have taken towards resolving the poem to place-identifying labels (place names are mostly out). Literal translations of “home of Brown” become tricky without place names or person names, leaving only “natural feature” solutions or actual brown homes like pueblos as viable (but might as well chalk up the capital “B” as a typo). Really long-longevity also precludes many natural features (probably any sort of geological solution to warm waters is out — Old Faithful has been a geyser for less than 300 years, and a hot spring for only about 750 years). Creeks get tricky over long periods as do any other smaller bodies of water. They run dry, alter course, and so on. Wood is obviously in jeopardy over long periods.

            Multiple searchers on the first two clues leaves us having trouble justifying any unorthodox thinking in the solution. Ciphers, codes, arcane mathematics all become tricky. Bizarre interpretations don’t hold up to multiple searchers. The numbers he’s suggested have gotten those, and his comment that at least some of the clues refer to places, leaves us (reasonably) concluding that they resolved the clues to places in a rather straightforward way. There’s few straightforward options available to us as clues, over a long timeline.

            And that, I think, is a good reason to reduce the the longevity of clues to a maximum of 100 years and still have a practical approach. My contention is that if you set a max of 100 years on clues for finding a 1000 year old treasure, why not a few decades instead? That seems just as acceptable.

            Why not: “Forrest Fenn designed the challenge to be solved in a few decades, if one can. If not the chest becomes a time capsule lost to the millennia like his jars. The chest was placed to survive the test of time, the solutions to the clues were not.” (the original posit)

            (As a side note: What exactly would be “new” in “riches new and old” after 1000 years?)

          • In my completed solve (hopefully the only correct solve) new and old have to do with the changes in magnetic fields over time

          • Longevity of the clues would not be a factor, however longevity of the location of the chest might be a factor IMO. Currents maps will still exist in some form or the map f has in mind may be a map that already has historical value. So the clues can still be functional even though old faithful etc., no longer exist. IMO

          • Jeremy,

            You make some good arguments for consideration. One that I have to hold on tight to is fenn’s quote; “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

            If you take another comment from fenn as to, one of his intent… to influence future generations, and yet another of one of the reasons for the bio in the olive jar was to tell of this time period… they seem to lean towards a couple of things, imo.

            1. The chest is or is hoped to be found safe and fully intact for as long as possible, for the reasons above.
            2. The duration of writing the poem and planning the execution of hiding the chest, was not done over a long time. Even though the thought was originally during a serious health problem… he held off perfecting all his plans. ” indecision is the key to flexibility.” Line of thinking.

            The only conclusion I see is that those intents and time span of execution would be incorporated to the place the clues refer to as well, because of those thoughts.
            I know you have read some of my ideas and thought… even tho I may use a given name for a place, it is for conversational understanding only. Yet none of the places I mention need a name to understand them as a clue. With one and only one exception of B for Brown. I can not honestly say [ even to myself ] that there is not a name involved. But that doesn’t mean the name is of a place perse. It could be a reference to something altogether different, and we need to understand why it is we need to be below it’s home and what it’s “home” is.

            Now you may come back with… a home is a building or dwelling and a person named brown lives there. And I would come back with no person, and home is not a dwelling but a habitation, as well as “home” is something we call a place of habitation… a city, a state, a country, etc. but not necessarily a small place.

            Would Glacier national park be a good WWWH? and canyon down leads to Great bear national park [ I think that’s what it’s called ] or hoB. I’ll even take it a step further and throw out an old idea that all the clues refer to National parks or a type of park. Maybe this is why some have indicated the first clue[s] but didn’t understand what they meant. They tried to narrow down the ” places ” to a small area. Not to mention these places should last for a very long time… even if they no longer are National parks, forest etc. and have been there in almost the same state/condition they are now… wild and open.

            Now come the one problem… “most of the places the clues refer to were there when fenn was a kid… Is at least one or maybe more clues something that is not a “place” or location and is that the reason we are thrown off track? or don’t know we [ those searchers ] had the first two clue or even the first four possibly? All I’m saying is there is more than one way to read the poem other than directional or point to point needed to be traveled.

        • Did Forrest give a date or some kind of timeline as to when the poem will no longer be valid? If not, then the poem is timeless. He thought of everything.

          • His words gave them an expiration date of 3,009 due to geological changes, and suggested that some places the clues refer to “might” still exist in 100 years. I’m exploring the idea that it might be less than that.

          • @Seeker…your above thoughts on ff using deliberate. I don’t assume that when he said deliberate it necessarily means each word is used as part of a clue to help the search get closer to the tc. There can be other reasons for certain words being deliberately placed into the poem. FF did say on MW..there are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but is risky to discount any of them.

            So I see 9 lines as nine clues as a possibility. If that ends up being the case then it makes sense as we are to follow the nine clues precisely not the whole poem.

    • Jeremy, I completely agree. Here’s a link for a 4:22 long youtube video to help prove your point.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUZE7kgXKJc

      If the correct solve involves a Dam for “heavy loads and water high” then it is possible wherever that Dam is might be gone in 100 years or less, just like this one in Washington State.

      This was just a hypothetical example, not saying yeah or nay about the correct solve, nor my solve.

      • That’s pretty amazing to watch. Imagine the decision making that went into controlling the water flow, what to remove first, etc. Thanks for sharing!

    • Having given it some additional thought, I believe assuming clues have the same longevity as chest longevity, absent of any additional information (such as a statement from Forrest to the effect), is a “fallacy of composition”.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition

      One part of the whole Chase has characteristic Longevity.
      Therefore the whole of Chase must have the characteristic Longevity.

      This is akin to saying the number 3 is an odd number. 3 is part of 4. Therefore, the number 4 is odd.

      As far as fallacious reasoning goes, it’s not the worst. I mean, it is a treasure hunt after all. One might argue he’s hinted at clue longevity, depending on how you look at his statements, but I think that would require an argument and isn’t a given.

      • Jeremy,
        Assumptions can really mess things up, agreed. However, I might assume clues have longevity because the clues have no direct dependence on the 3 dimensional world we live in. The clues draw from recorded history, maps, dictionary, sciences etc. that live on.

        If the poem is step by step or some close facsimile then it may be in jeopardy of aging. Make sense?

  70. On what one needs to find the treasure chest …

    In my opinion, only two things … the poem and a good map.

    Upthread, much discussion that we need a GPS. I think that might just be general advice to people unfamiliar with the Rocky Mountains and who therefore might venture into the woods without much thought. I doubt seriously that one would need a GPS to find the treasure chest, since it’s not that far removed from some kind of road.

    Also, a lot of searchers think they need Google Earth and/or various “coordinates”. I disagree.

    That a searcher needs Google Earth presumes that he or she needs the internet. There are still a lot of households that do not have internet service, for whatever reason. To refer back to FF’s own example … I can envision some man, who just lost his blue collar job in Texas, with no internet service. He grabs a bedroll, his wife and seven kids; they all pile into the family pickup and head off in search of the chest. Is the guy at a disadvantage? I doubt it. FF >>> “I tried to think of everything”. As sharp as FF is, he must surely have realized that not everyone has internet service, and/or does not have any interest in some tech-gadget, GPS or otherwise.

    I personally will take a cell phone and a compass, but only for travel emergencies … no other tech devices. The internet is nice; it can help in some ways. But if I really thought I had to have it, then I would gauge my interpretation of the puzzle as inadequate. Actually, what I think is more relevant than the internet is a good dictionary/thesaurus. 🙂

    Ken

    • In my solution the poem is impossible to solve without GE. Maybe I need another solution? Can you give me a place and time of that quote. I’ve been around for awhile and don’t remember that particular quote.

    • IMO, a good” map is just another phrase that was thrown in to throw you off. I think that statement may have come from a scrapbook or something. Which would assume that if you were going to apply this SB info to your solve, then all other SB’s should be applied to your solve also.. It would only be fair and completely organized. If you only listen to what Fenn says, then that leaves no room for your imagination. That is the point.

      Even poem purist are following scrapbooks. I don’t imagine there were too many poem purists before this scrapbook came out.

      If 100s of thousand of people have searched for decades with nothing found or even a shred of evidence, then you are probably looking in the wrong direction.

      As I’ve said, the poem is just a a key for a map, and the rest of the world holds the answer. That’s why in every scene and interview that Forrest is in, there are shelves of books. He talks so much about art and history. I am certain he used a little bit of Ben Franklin for his chase, along with many other lives and stories that were told.

      • Hey Hammertime, I always appreciate your insightfulness.
        F’s good map comment was a direct quote from him here. IMO it may be a link to pages 59-60 TTOTC “And we got a map of Gallatin National Forrest that would really come in handy later on.” It’s the only regional specific map he names. TFTW map came out later is is obviously a larger, more general area.

    • @Ken, I believe you are right. My solve deals with the numbers and letter values, I have coordinates, but, looking at it all now, and all the different solves per line, at it’s basics one really doesn’t need it all. Just a compass, maybe a tape measure, and a dictionary/thesaurus. That’s it. IF, you are first. If someone say obliterates the blaze, you may then need the coordinates. I think Forrest has provided what’s needed to find the chest. But, I do agree with you, if I start at WWWH, go into the canyon down, into where the meek don’t go, find the blaze, take what I need, measure off the needed distance after that, stand up what I took from the blaze, at the right time and date, the shadow cast will point the way, add what’s little left, and there I will be. No GPS, no Google Earth, no computer, just the poem, a compass to make sure I’m headed the right way, and maybe a flashlight.:) IMO.

      • Agreed.

        But it’s going to be hard to convince searchers that they do not need the internet, specifically because the solution they come up with is dependent on some facet of the internet.

        The fact remains, however, that not all households have a computer. And I would think that FF would have been aware of that when composing the clues. It’s even possible that some of the clues were arrived at before internet use became widespread.

        • Internet has been very helpful in my solve, however, it is not very available in the treasures hide spot which explains why it’s been there so long without being found…most of the locals near the treasure haven’t heard about FF and his adventure yet but it will be huge news and they will be very surprised when they hear it was there right under there noses this whole time when it is found!!!

  71. My name Steve Klein and I suffer from F. P. S… Fenns poem syndrome. I swear I had a solve that had my search start at a restraunt in Colorado. Then I thought the poem led to another poem saying there is no chest.going crazy here.

  72. just for fun here… each time I read the line “look quickly down” it reminds me of Tom Selleck in his movie ‘Quigley Down Under.’ Hard for me not to look quickly down then…under. Still thinking about what to look under. For all we know it could be anything from a small cave to a brown horse trailer. Lol. I guess that’s an assnine conclusion. Anyway, Selleck seems like the kind of guy Forrest would relate to… Grew up on western movies; fell in love with his movie horse “Spike” payed $7000 to have Spike ride a jet to his CA home from Australia.

    (Also some interesting Sharps rifle history in the movie.)

    http://www.christie-craig.com/tom_selleck.html

    • Put in below the home of Brown or south of
      Below = south

      I’m going option 3

      Full Definition of below
      1
      a : lower in place, rank, or value than : under
      b : down river from
      c : south of

      • King of Ambiguity – with that handle we might also call you ff 🙂 which is meant as a compliment.

        Question regarding “below” definitions. It’s my opinion that one needs to solve the poem more than once to arrive at where the treasure lies. With that in mind, do you think each time the definition of “Down” would be consistent successively?

        (I’ve been able to make my multi-level solutions work successively using ‘downstream’ and at a lower level each time but not directionally.)

        • The short answer is not directly, too me down means 2 different things 1. South 2. To a lower elevation.

          • Agree, down means South, the canyon a lower elevation at the start, but rising the farther you go.

      • if it’s an adverb, below also means under, as in “under the surface of the water” – Merriam-Webster.

        as well as it could mean these-

        1
        : in or to a lower place
        2
        a : on earth
        b : in or to Hades or hell
        3
        : on or to a lower floor or deck
        4
        a : in, to, at, or by a lower rank or number
        b : below zero
        5
        : lower on the same page or on a following page

        i’m hoping it’s a preposition, that’s how i’ve used it.

        and i think “below” also means “after”

        • If using ‘sounds like’ techniques in your solution,,,
          How about bellow the home of brown. Elk are brown and bellow.
          Or if considering the blaze as a fireplace of sorts, bellows are a tool used in fanning flames back to a blaze.

  73. The poem works. Searchers have been as close as 200 feet but didn’t know it, others have solved more than just a couple of the clues. Something is keeping searchers from closing in. What could it be, a locked gate, a no trespassing sign, private lands, recent forest fire making location unappealing, bad timing, weather or unforeseen obstacles, fatigue, large patch of cacti?

    One other thought, did Forrest ever imagine in 2010 the impact of the internet/social media and blogging regarding the number of folks who would be out searching. I think the TC will be found this coming year and I also feel Forrest would like to know that it has been found to be able to share in the excitement, otherwise why give out more crumbs/hints. Just my year end summary! Best – CQ 2015

    • Cholly,

      For me, the simple answer to why close but not located it is, reading the poem wrong. How did some get close…? fenn has basically said it, by aberrations and not by understanding the clues or the significance of where they are [ first two clues] if you don’t understand why these location how the heck can you understand the poem? One reason why I don’t care for the botg method as the only method of how to read the poem. It lacks the understanding of the clues and just simplify them as point on a map only. IMO there is more to the clues then just “finding” them.

      Fenn has used words like , in order, contiguous , follow precisely, lead to… At first glance they seem to say travel these points. Yet when you understand the words, they actually say next to each other, close in relationship, sharing a common border etc. They don’t seem to be just point, but more that they need to work as one or as a whole. If that assumption is correct, then that may explain the big picture comment. Of course, that is my opinion of the meanings usage.

    • I think you are right Cholly, the poem works. But I do think the first 2 clues (and really all the clues) can be solved before you ever leave home. IMO the first clue is what state a person is going to search. That has to be the first clue. Second where, in that state, is your starting point. So searchers being as close as 200ft could mean that they have identified the correct state and the correct starting point without ever having had boots on the ground. Maybe they emailed Forrest where they were going etc. Or maybe they couldn’t correctly identify clues, directions, etc in the area once they were in the correct area. I personally think the 200ft comment means something completely different than it’s face value.

      I also think someone has located the correct location of the treasure chest and that is why Forrest has quit giving hints all together. No more hints, no more scrapbooks, vignettes, etc. Just repeating and emphasizing what is already known. No need for further hints/clarification now that he knows there’s enough information out there to successfully locate the treasure chest. Until that person retrieves the chest and comes forward, if they do come forward, it’s a waiting game for him. It should be last minute scramble for the rest of us. All IMO. And I know I don’t post here enough for anyone to seriously consider my words. Looking forward to what 2016 brings.

        • Joseph,
          What do you mean by went dark? Granted I have only been on here a couple of months, but to me he seems active, weekly words, scrapbook, radio interview. That seems more then I would want to spend time on during the holiday season and in the last interview he said something to the effect of things starting to wear a little thick on him. imo
          jl

          • Joseph,
            C’mon we all know it was my post that turned off the light… gezz it’s not all about you, ya know… lol… maybe it was Loco’s. Naaaaa.

            it’s ok, No one gets my dry, warp, sarcastic, creepy sense of humor either. Not that I want you to think I’m creepy… I am… I just don’t want ya to think it.

          • As,you said,forrest went dark when you emailed him your solve.he is not going to email you back and say ,yeah thats where it is.nor give you any hints.he wants this to be fair for all . I’m sure a million people have sent him their solve ,including me.sometimes,we think we got it solved.then something else throws a wrench in it. Mr.forrest will remain closed mouth.i don’t know what color the blaze is or can’t figure out the poem.but i am having fun trying.good luck in your serch.

  74. @Seeker, Ramona, Jeremy P, Hammer, et al. I do enjoy reading what you all have to say, I can tell when it’s a ‘seeker’ comment as I scroll up from the bottom based on full screen length! lol! Love it though. I just read in MW about the bracelet and how it was old but got made new looking by the jeweler who had repaired it and polished it up…..I’m still sold on NM as a starting state. I’m sold on the WWWH as being the first clue, get that right and the rest will fall into place. cq

  75. Another way to look at a depth of imagination, is to take ” the end is ever drawing nigh”. Use nigh as if it means “left”. Another word for left is southpaw. In this sorta context, south could equal left, if Fenn wanted to use this sort of trick by playing with words. If this were correct, then applying it to his directions ” North” of Santa Fe would actually be “East” of Santa Fe on a real map or “good” map..
    Everything begins on the east.

  76. Anyone care to share what me in the middle means? Some many ppl say they no this or that but when it comes down to getting answers they flake.

    • In the book TTOTC ff refers to himself as me in the middle. His big brother Skippy being older then himself, then his sister June.
      I once was working on a solve that pertained to me in the middle but it didn’t work out.
      jl

    • Yes,
      I think this chapter has hints including the title. In the middle of what? Mountains perhaps? Maybe that would put you in a canyon & maybe there is a creek there you have to go up IMO.
      Whats your take?

      • I don’t really know after many month of study I’m sorta perplexed. I’ve been thinking lately middle is once you’ve unraveled the code to its most simplistic form at that point you’ll know it’s in the middle. As I have gone alone in there is that point which is the middle.,, not sure if making sense or not but like peeling an onion layer after layer.

        • Now I see D,
          Fenn said “My siblings are GONE now and so are my parents. It sure would (wood) be nice if they could all come back so I could be in the middle again.”
          Interesting, The only way they could all come back is when he dies & where did he want to die? Where has he gone alone in there?
          Hmm, You are thinking my way or maybe I am thinking your way. Either way it makes sense to me.
          My op of course.

    • Hey D, I’ll try. For me, “Me In The Middle” tells me to put the word “me” in the word “the”, so I get Theme. Theme Middle.
      Now, I’m pretty sure I have the right alpha/numeric, but, it’s my interpretation, so going with that, with what I believe are the right letter values, Theme Middle can be broken down many ways:
      The 33 mile
      The 6 mile
      The 6 mi 24
      The 33 mi 24
      For mi 33
      For mi 4
      4 mile
      7 14 8 mi 24
      Reading from right to left:
      eld 1 I m one
      46 33 7
      eld one I m 67
      There may be a couple more ways, but I don’t need to confuse anymore. With Theme Middle, I don’t know which one of these he may favor, maybe none, but this is what I get.To interpret the numbers:

      Forrest Fenn= 14 8
      William Fenn= 25 8 (33)
      24 = X
      6 = 2+4= X
      The= 7
      me= Forrest Fenn
      me= 33

      He may be saying Theme my 24. Or again, may be nothing, lol, typical right.
      It’s what I get.

      • Very nice job Charlie… btw, thanks for sharing with us. I’m a bit off center and sometimes relate to artists, goof balls or 12 yr old humor – which is half of 24.

        So in 12 yr old terms the middle of me is either my heart (interior) or my butt (exterior) although the butt I succumbs to a lower elevation each year ;-). Wolf may be correct with geographical Butte or a geological butte.

        Playing with numbers, perhaps 242 air miles from one direction and 424 miles from other direction yielding perfect 666 or FFF all reflecting the mirror image theme rather than the middle theme. I believe both themes are in play.

        • yes Lia, I like wolf’s solve. We are pretty close as far as area. I think his 242 is off though. May or may not be, but too far to doesn’t sound like 242 to me, but who knows. But, we both reference marvell gaze the same, and various other things, like sundial, shadow, sun. I think Andrew Marvell has something to do with the blaze. Check him out, 17th century poet. Upon Appleton House, and The Garden.

    • Dontknownothing1, while I know less than you,… A couple possibilities for ‘me in the middle’

      1. Yin/yang; centered spiritually
      2. Forrest writes about his obsessive tendency towards collecting. Perhaps he’s also obsessive about staying in the middle or placing things dead center. That could apply to treasure placement following the continental divide, middle fork of stream, center of canyon down, exactly mid point between two designated points, offbeat artistic thinking yields..overlay his nic name Bubba directly over family childhood family member initials m, w, l, j and he’s in the middle;
      3. his heart is inside/middle – so perhaps he’s placing his heart or soul in the middle of a place he feels surrounded by memories or loved ones.

    • @Cluesfrom re total weight of chest and contents, just a coincidence in my opinion, empty it weighted ‘x’ pounds and then he placed the 20.2 ‘troy’ pounds of gold and other things in there….it may weigh a tad more if the interior wood soaked up any moisture…..Why? does 42 have to do with a clue/latitude or what? I just finished watching the Moby Dickens Book Shop interview again, the questions about a car rental sure makes me wonder……ff appears to almost admitting use of a rental, more concerned about date and time of it….if a rental vehicle was used then NM would be out in my opinion and probably CO as well……I’m just gonna have to read the book again and again, looking for those one or two major hints that help with the clues in the poem….

      • I have never heard of a date when ff sold his plane or quit flying. Even if he had sold the plane I am sure he could borrow, rent or talk someone into flying him. If he did use a rental car , does not rule out NM or CO if anything it might be a better reason to use a rental just to make sure someone did not recognize his vehicle and wonder what he may be doing then later remember where he had been around the time it was hid.imo
        jl

        • @JL re rental car and still be NM or CO, good point, thought about that shortly after posting what I’d said, especially if his vehicle is easy to recognize, (double omega bumper sticker and all) joke! maybe he waits till he puts it in the shop and gets a loaner for the day from the mechanic. Also, if right now ff said it’s not in NM or CO, I’d still be scratching my head wondering wwwh, lol! Really doesn’t matter, I can’t make heads or tails of the poem. Reading a few pages of the book now, wondering…..Re 42 anyone check out the Atomic number 42 and the two popular mines in CO? Huge glory hole of a blaze at one…..I’m not into numbers to much but you never know….

    • EVERYTHING Forrest did/does with respect to his treasure is well planned and purposeful.

      With regard to why 42… My guess is it matched nicely with his location and then he researched everything about 42 to use in the poem.

      42 is known as the answer to the universe; degree necessary for a rainbow, my birthday, numerical value of MT if my values are correct, many other interesting tidbits…but IMO it’s always about location. Could be a county’s number, forest service road, total miles he drove, half of 84 miles driven, etc.

  77. Jeremy P suggested (upthread) the possibility that … “The chest was placed to survive the test of time, [but] the solutions to the clues were not”.
    ————————————————————————————————-
    On that question, I would have to disagree. I think every “place” referenced in the poem was selected specifically because FF expected that it would “stand the test of time”. But …

    The label by which that “place” goes by might change. For example, in my 8 of 9 clues solution, my HOB is identified in a way that has nothing to do with the word “Brown”. That “place” almost certainly will still be there five hundred years from now, if not longer. And so the HOB clue in the poem will remain intact, despite potential changes to its label. Ditto other clues.

    A related problem is that of geographic scale. Are the clues all relevant to a small geographic area? Or, does the first clue refer to some place that’s two hundred miles from the second clue? Well, that’s for us to figure out. I think the correct answer depends on the definition of the first clue. Is it in a confined space, or does it seem more out in the open?

    Another issue raised by either Jeremy or Seeker is the apparent contradiction that … even though FF has indicated that every word in the poem is important, the 24 lines in the poem contain only 9 clues; are the other lines filler?

    Elsewhere I have suggested the possibility that the number 9 is arbitrary, and that the actual number of clues could range from 7 to 13 … depending on how one defines each clue. My impression is that after he finished writing the poem, he counted 9 clues. Lines that seemingly do not have “clues” are still important but in ways that do not relate to geographic clues.

    All of what I have said above is just my opinion of course, and I could be wrong. I do maintain that the searcher probably should interpret the poem in a manner described as “straightforward”. In addition, I would suggest that maybe we get off track if we over-complicate the task or try to rely on research assistance unrelated to the poem. As for TTOTC, there’s so many different topics in that book that a searcher can find almost anything to justify some given puzzle solution. There’s just no way to know if some comment or doodle FF made on page “xy” is really important to the solution.

    The poem itself is the most important consideration, IMO. But I would hasten to point out that the searcher also needs to take into account the “Cheat Sheet” information dal has provided in this blog; that’s important too.

    I’m well aware that other searchers approach this puzzle in ways that are very different from my own. These searchers may therefore disagree with my conclusions here. Which of course is fine. I try to maintain an open mind. My background specifically is geography and maps, which I suppose is the reason I approach FF’s puzzle the way I do.

    Ken

    • Hey Ken, you mentioned your background is in geography. I was wondering if history is something that is intertwined in your field?…since that’s been brought up much in the Chase.

      • Hi fd …

        It can be, if there’s a spacial (geographic) component, for example, the spacial (geographic) distribution of Pueblo ruins in New Mexico. But the emphasis would be on why the distribution is like it is.

        K.

    • @Ken, looks like I have to agree with you again. My HOB has nothing to do with brown, back in Forrest’s day, the place went under a different name than it does now, which constitutes why it would be a HOB. Also, will be there for a very long time.
      As far as the 9 clues, I’m in the boat that the whole poem is needed. I’ve said before, but to repeat, I have, 11 lines that give me the alpha/numeric, 9 lines that give me coordinates, and 9 line that give me the “path” ( the 9 clues if followed precisely, etc…) The other 5 lines are helpful/needed support info. Interesting is the 9 clues to find the coordinates. When added together, stanza by stanza, I get the exact elevation of those coordinates. Probibly just coincidence.
      As for the poem, I see it as instructions to be followed, words, letters, sounds like, some misspelled, all yield instructions. All 24 lines, that’s hard to do unless you do it on purpose, IMO.

      • Hey there Charlie (I used to have a boss named Charlie; his last name started with a B)

        Well, you could be right about the importance of numbers. But I just can’t get into that line of thinking, the reason being that numbers seem so arbitrary, so impersonal. They have little if anything to do with FF. His book TTOTC is very personal; I would expect his clues and the location of the chest also to be personal.

        Cheers,

        K

        • cheers ken, i hear you, just for me, tough to ignore. just can’t see taking things for face value. have to find a way to solve rhe poem someway…anyway, happy new year…

    • @Ken: Following your idea that the places would stick around, but that the labels might change, could it then be said that Forrest wasn’t looking too-too far down the road as far as poem solving goes? In other words, could it be said that Forrest’s priority that the clues are solvable diminish one, two, ten decades out, and he doesn’t care a hundred decades out at all?

      Again, this may or may not be the case. I’m just exploring the plausibility of expiring solutions to clues.

      • What you just said sounds plausible to me. How could anyone ensure that anything be around for a thousand years? His point, as I gather, is that people will be thinking about his treasure chest for a long time from now. I try not to be too literal with what he says verbally. For all of us, talk is cheap, ditto FF. There are a few details that he has said verbally that we do need to take seriously, and those are the items listed in the “Cheat Sheet” on this blog. Otherwise, it’s just normal everyday chatter. (By the way, after a post has been posted, is there any way to edit it?)

  78. EIS radio has a short blurb with Forrest where he says something about the chest still being out there and under snow, I’m trying to post the link now.

  79. Wondering if ‘the blaze’ and other important clues are not visible this time of the year, if a water fall is part of the TC location the waters are frozen and there isn’t one this time of the year, no rainbow or maybe not even any differences in water temps. I’m just continuing to think and read….there has been some really good discussion on here, hope to see more…..IMO

    • If you been wise and seen the blaze. The word been to me means past tense so maybe the blaze was something that happened a long time ago but will always be remembered in history. Just a thought.

  80. I’ve been looking at running man, Father Time and the TToTC again and found something interesting. First, let me preface by saying the chest is supposed to be 8.25 miles North of Santa Fe. During my research, I look for links in geography that will take me to other locations that fit the criteria that has been given to us. Most of the time, the links bring me back to Santa Fe or other areas. Recently, I found this: while looking at photos and prints, I came across a person know as Angelo Klonis who was in WWII. The name also reminded me of one of FF’s ducks in his scrapbook. What’s interesting about this gentleman is that he is the face on Life magazine (owned byTed Turnerr, owner of Time magazine) with the cigarette in his mouth. The picture of Angelo is a famous picture where he has tarry scant and marvel gaze. How I found Angelo was by researching Comfort dolls and houses. When I searched for Comfort houses (brothels) in New Mexico, Evangelos came up in a YouTube video. Then, I looked closer at Evangelos and found that it is owned by a Greek gentleman named Nick who is Angelo’s son. It’s decorated with WWII and tiki type of decor. Then I thought about the two omegas and FF looking in the mirror at a young man. Perhaps father and son–like Angelo and Nick. After researching more, I found that Angelo had his own thrill of the chase trying to locate the magazine that had his photo on it. Angelo’s son Nick happen to see the photo on a book while walking through a mall with his mother sometime later after his father past away. When I googled Evangelos, I came across the Bar-Muda triangle (triangle like the frog in the TC) which is Evangelos, The Underground and The Matador. What was interesting about this is when I look at the poem and try to apply the clues, it’s brings me to The Matador(downstairs bar) I know this can’t be the solve but all the pieces fit. Bottle of whiskey reference in one of the books,etc. the bull head with horns on FF’s website and in other photos. Wood on the ceiling with all the signatures. So, maybe this is a take off point to another location for the rest of the poem. I thought I would share this interesting piece of history. This really got me going but it doesn’t meet the criteria of 8.25 miles North of Santa Fe.

  81. It’s kinda funny, but interesting IMO. This does remind me of a warm retreat and Angelo couldn’t keep a secret when he drank. It reminded me of FFs comment about the chest, if i told you where it is, i’d have to kill you. Angelo drank one evening and told his son about his mission taking pictures and the Germans coming down the hill on skis.

  82. Michael H. , have you heard of this place in Santa Fe? I’ve been by it but havent went in. Just sounds like fun. Kinda like bar hopping in the bar-muda triangle. But, hey dont serve food at The Matador. Prbably need a flashlight to see the signatures. I wonder if FF has been there and signed the ceiling???

  83. Let me clarify. The bar-muda triangle is not a brothel or comfort house. There was some history prior to the ownership of Evangelos but not present day.

  84. Rose, don’t see how this is associated with OUR F! The poem is written to fit thousands of solves, that’s what makes it so fun, but really can’t see THIS connection and our dear F!!! Imo

    • Hi Donna, i’ll try to explain. In both of the books, TTOTC and TFTW, FF has photos on the covers and instide the books. Photos are a collectors item as are certain paintings and other military collectibles. I also kept trying to discount and nullify the coincidence, but kept on finding more links to Angelo and the Chase. Here’s another link, Angelos famous photo is on a stamp published by the US post office. Then i thought of all the post marks in the TOTC book. I also remember one in a scrapbook. The another link surfaced in reference to WWII, in chapter 17 of the TFTW book, FF references Robin Olds and a book he had read about him. I also found the name of the duck, Angelo, in a scrapbook as well as Angelo’s secret. Although, FF is able to keep his secret. In addition, i found that FF made reference to a camera in his War for Me chapter and Angelo also had a camera and was to take photos. The linkages to the two Greek symbols Omega also reminded me of Angelo and Nick’s heritage being Greek. FF also mentions that he had a wall built that resembled the one in Delphi, Greece, page 177 in TFTW. Another link is the name Underwood shown on page 257. Apparently, the famous photo of Angelo was thought to be a man named Underwood, but later, facial recognition proved the photo to be Angelo. The brandy bottle on page 148 also seemed like a link. As well as Fran Warren singing at the Flamingo lounge where FF talked to her (page 113 in TFTW). There is also page 67 in TFTW where it reads ” We agreed to join the party on time and drink at least three bottles of Lone Star Beer. Discipline was a key element in the plan.” Then, when i received my comfort dolls, i showed them to my husband and he mentioned the reference to WWII Comfort houses. I’m not making any suggestions in the above about FFs character, i believe him to be a good hearted man of moral character. im only looking at the linkages in the treasure hunt and key words. I hope this helps claify things and who knows, maybe it will shed light on a clue to lead us to the chest. 🙂 IMO

  85. To reveal or not to reveal – that is the question.

    Have you ever really considered what you would do if you found the treasure? Sure many searchers including myself would want to tell the world, the ego inside wants to blurt out to the world that you were the one to solve this five year puzzle. Even Mr Fenn predicts the type of person to find it won’t be able to keep their mouth shut.

    However after that individual has their 15 minutes of fame is that the right decision? Even Dal has said he is not sure if he would reveal it or not.

    There are many other factors to consider. What if it is on private land and you signed a non-disclosure agreement with the owner prior to searching? You risk loosing the chest if you disclose. Maybe the owner of the land doesn’t want all attention and those that will flock to the area to see for themselves.

    One could maximize the value of the chest by making it public and promoting the find. But as Mr Fenn will attest there are negatives to being a public figure and not all of us are equipped to handle it.

    Maybe the finder wants to just keep it and not sell it. One thing I have observed: it is human nature to take away what others have earned. One will have to be ready to defend their find and that costs money. Court battles, surveillance and security. The chase has brought out its share of nut cases, and many have threatened Mr Fenn’s life and tried to break into his home. Can you afford that kind of protection? Can you handle threats to your life? All things to consider.

    Of course keeping it quiet seems unfair; do not the other searchers deserve to know the answer? Is that right to keep them in the blind, continuing to search for a treasure that is no longer out there?

    We all know one can’t claim they found the chest because everyone will demand proof so some say they will just send the bracelet to Mr Fenn. But that may mean he will reveal the location and that may still end up singling you out if you have not covered your tracks.

    I know I have gone back and forth on what I would do and I wondered if there was another way to reveal but not reveal, a compromise so to speak. One of the options I reserved was to not reveal to Mr. Fenn or anyone I found the treasure but tell everyone the solution but leave it for each searcher to decide. Surely if the correct solution was provided they would be able to figure it out – or would they? Just an adventure story which explains in detail the correct solution and lets the searchers decide for themselves – but no confirmation one way or the other of finding the chest just the correct solution. With out physical proof Mr. Fenn will not be able reveal whether it has been found either – maybe one of those who have been within 200 feet already have the chest and made it appear to Mr. Fenn in their email that they had no clue they were so close. Something to consider…

    • One could take a photo of the chest or item inside the chest and send it via postal service to fenn or elsewhere in an attempt to let others know the search is off.

      An idea that I have considered is to donate the find and avoid taxes on all but few tokens from the chest that one may want to keep. If taking possession causes me to be taxed anyway, well I would stand guard at the chest until Ms. Jane comes from acme museum to claim it.

      just day dreams

  86. With respect to the question of what should the finder do with the chest…IMO…
    “It belongs in a museum…” (Perhaps I do also.)

    IMO, the treasure should be kept together (except for the bracelet); this would mean finding a museum willing to buy it. (And yes, the finder would have to pay the 28% federal capital gains tax.) A museum could price tickets at $10 each, and a hundred thousand visitors would almost pay for the treasure, from the museum’s point of view.

    (Perhaps some of the flakes of gold dust could become souvenirs…)

    The hiding place…well, it may well remain hidden.
    Geoff
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  87. The purpose of the chase will be depleted if the treasure finder revealed it. Nobody would have their reason to enjoy the sunshine and get off texting machines. With that being said, I would only reaveal to Forrest if he were still around, however there may be specific directions that detail other things too. I am sure as much planning this took, the finder will know exactly what to do when they find it.

    • I like that sentiment Hammertime. I like the idea that the special place will embue you with the path forward.

  88. Dal, feel free to move over to Legal page. Just following up this thread of discussion.

    Forrest says he thought of everything or tried to (paraphrase)
    Just a guess here, but he may have hid a tin can with the bracelet and directions to the remainder of the treasure. That way all the finder takes away is considered lost trash unless you know exactly what you found. Someone else mentioned 1,000 yr [millenial] Wyoming Dynasty laws which appear to be well suited to the designer of a treasure hunt. So one scenario could be finding a tin can in New Mexico, Montana, or Colorado which leads to a trustee in Wyoming where you return the bracelet and receive the remainder of trove in Wyoming. The poem still leads you to the chest, and it’s there waiting for you.

    Wyoming Dynasty Trusts (Sept 2014)
    Dynasty trusts are trusts that can last for several generations,
    allowing the grantor of the trust to pass along money to subsequent generations without it being taxed at each step. Because of the incredible flexibility and control permitted in setting these trusts up, a grantor can be assured that the corpus will not be depleted either by taxes or their heirs. If you are the grantor of the trust you can control the assets for generations by leaving specific instructions with the trustee. If you do not want your grandchildren and their children and your future descendants to just kick back and collect money, the dynasty trust enables you to dictate how and when the beneficiaries can receive income. This kind of “control from the grave” may not please everyone, but it is a good way to assure that your wealth provides for and encourages generations of productive descendants. In a typical dynasty trust a person transfers assets to a trustee who holds and invests the assets for the beneficiaries. As long as the assets stay in the trust they can pass from generation to generation without estate or generation skipping taxes. A Wyoming Dynasty Trust is not liable for any state income tax, nor does it pay any federal income tax to on assets distributed to beneficiaries.
    Because of the Rule Against Perpetuities, Dynasty Trusts do not exist in many states. The rule has existed for centuries because the common law disfavored property being held forever in trust, so it was created to advance the marketability of property. The Rule acts to void any agreement which does not conclude 21 years after a life in being or one generation after those lives presently in being, plus 21 years. Because the Rule Against Perpetuities is state law, states have the option of relaxing or eliminating its constraints. While Wyoming has not abolished the Rule Against Perpetuities, it does allow Trusts to last one thousand (1,000) years. Because of this 1,000 year duration, the Wyoming Dynasty Trust exists as one of the most dynamic estate planning tools available today.
    Wyoming Dynasty trusts not only provide extraordinary estate tax savings, they also offer the bonus of asset protection for the assets placed in trust. John D. Rockefeller believed that the secret of his success was to “own nothing and control everything.” This concept is at the heart of asset protection and a key tenant of Dynasty Trusts. The assets in a Dynasty Trust are protected because you don’t own them. The beneficiaries can enjoy the income from the trust assets without fear of losing them to a judgment creditor, your ex-spouse in a divorce, or medical bills and costs (outright distributions of wealth will likely make you ineligible for state or federal medical programs). Tax-free growth of assets combined with asset protection – what else could you ask for!
    You can also take advantage of discounted gifting through the use of a Wyoming Close LLC or a Limited Partnership to fund your Wyoming Dynasty Trust. Because it is possible to limit the control of certain members in a Wyoming Close LLC and because limited partners by definition have no control over the assets of a limited partnership, it is possible to superfund your dynasty trust through the use of these entities and the discounts allowed by the IRS.
    You do not have to live in Wyoming to set up a Dynasty Trust in Wyoming, you just need a trustee, or trust company, that is located in Wyoming. With Wyoming’s strong asset protection laws and lack of personal and corporate income tax, it is the perfect place to set up a Dynasty Trust.

  89. Ok, this is long and drawn out, I’m clearing my mind, so grab your coffee and check this out! Q. “So, no one is looking near the right spot?”
    A. “No one is looking AT the right spot.” F. (Sept 2015)

    Does F’s reply to an email mean he is correcting the questioner’s grammar, or is F saying someone may be in the right spot, but not AT the right place to see the treasure? I tend to believe the latter.

    “Near” is not good enough to get the treasure, you have to be AT the correct spot! I feel someone was in the right area. F’s 200′ remark backs up his “AT” statement.

    Indulgence is in a…
    ☆Exciting place
    ☆Respectful and reverent place (to F)
    ☆Where searchers will wonder why they “didn’t think of it”.
    ☆A place F has been to “a few times” (poss being sarcastic?)
    ☆A place he has fond memories of/ near and dear to his heart.

    200′ is almost 3/4 of a football field, quite a ways to be off the mark. Makes me wonder if a trail passes within 200′ of the treasure…hum.

    We’ve heard about his first arrowhead, how his dad collected relics, BUT, I have not seen his first fishing experience-story yet. A dad would want his son to be successful the first time out, so my guess would be Marvin took young F to HIS favorite honey hole. On F’s last trip with his dad, did they fish there one last time for the memories? (Respectful/reverent). Probably. F said if his father were alive, he’d know where the treasure was. 2 can keep a secret if 1 is dead!
    That doesn’t mean it’s in WY or MT. Their route from Temple to YS took almost 5 days, back then. They camped at fav spots, fishing to feed the family. It could be in NM or CO for that matter. Maybe it’s a place that has a combination of fishing and relics?!

    So, why ask a kid to read the poem? F said he wouldn’t say “why”…there’s your answer. Because kids ask “why” (and how!). He wants us to ask that with each sentence. Not www but why it halts. There are ALOT of ww’s in the Rockies, but why is the water halted, what causes it to halt? That’s where your comprehensive knowledge of geography comes in! That is the first mystery, solve it and imo you are on your way! People are spending too much time on WW…

    Imo, RN&O are his memories of that place. DITANIW is him grabbing the bananas all the time and just wore out. I doesn’t mean he was trying to get rich all the time, he grabbed a banana at EVERY opportunity, from fishing to piloting his jet, to archeological digs, to writing, to life in general. He wanted to give some back to the fates as a thank you for his luck.

    Ok, I’ll stop there. Feels good to clean out my brain.
    These mutterings are my opinion.
    Be safe and THINK this winter!
    ¥Peace ¥

    • Donna, good thoughts for consideration. Brand me with an L for loser…I’ve lost the Legal page. Where did it go?

      Interesting translation from Spanish to English…”foral” translates to statutory.
      “Leave my trove foral = paper my trove statutorily. And of course trove rhymes with drove – done it tired. I’m tired. Good night.

    • I dont think the water has to necessarily have to “stop” per-say. But maybe that water flows into another water way, and the name of that water way means “halt” or stop of some sort.
      Warm is a given for me, as the word “Warm” has the word “war” in it. So imo Warm mean War too. If you play with that word enough. There is alot of emphasis on Wars and Warm within the Chase. The way i see things, they are directly in front of us.

      • Hammer, I subscribe to a multiple meaning approach for Warm waters halting.

        1. 32 degrees
        (kids know; kid snow)
        2. Basin land shape, wash tub
        Forrest halted the use of a family basin to take baths in ttotc
        3. Non chemically polluted streams
        4. Sewage treatment plant
        5. Glaciers
        6. Cabins, campsites w/o plumbing
        7. Dorian music scale WWWH
        (4d’s “miss ford” butterfly shape, Dorian – architectural style

        But I really like your idea of War included in Warm. I always look for words inside of words. So how about war/arm meaning war club. Recall the SB with Forrest in front on lake with bear? The clouds were shaped like a war club – could be a natural formation similarly shaped. He’s a master of getting us all to bite on lakes, bears, fish etc but the cloud was interesting.

        • @anna re WWWH, I have one way out there thought on WWWH it’s capillary action and how Cotton Wood Trees are known as Green Ribbons in the summer in some parts of the search area. http://water.usgs.gov/edu/capillaryaction.html only because of a dream I had back when I first got into this thrilling adventure. Thinking how the trees suck up the water in the summer time, just to far out there to fit though, IMO.

          I can’t find ‘nightmare on chase street’ or what ever that heading is called? Had a chase dream this morning where I’m hiking along a rim of a canyon and look down and see a huge canyon with a blaze colored in the rocks, the location was known as Battlefield Park. Each of our 4 states have Battlefield Parks, NM’s is south of SF by 10 miles, WY’s is under 5K feet. CO’s is near Meeker!

          • A round of applause Cholly )”(
            That’s one of the best WWWH ideas I’ve heard. High in the surrounding trees.

  90. All,

    There is only one singular “geological” feature that runs the entire breadth of the Rocky Mountain’s, that can effect water and most of it is located north of Santa Fe.

    Seannm

    • The RM’s ‘are’ north of SF. There is only one connection to the range that is below SF… And it’s not mountains.

  91. Seannm…yep! I know it, but didn’t want to say it, let others do their own homework!

  92. All,

    Anyone have an Idea or guess where the picture of Skippy holding a rock picture was taken? My opinion is it is located at Firehole cascades in Yellowstone.

    Seannm

    • Seannm, looks like Firehole area to me. What’s more interesting is that the photo appears to be photo shopped near Skippys belt which could give the rock a different shape

      • Maybe HOB. I can’t say where I think, but, if you look at the picture, turn the book upside down, now look at Skippy, See how he makes a “4”. Keep looking, it will come. Now look inside the inclosed part of the “4”. See the
        “5 1 and the degrees symbol”? Looks like a fancy “5” and a fancy “1”, and the degrees looks like an alien head. 46 degrees. Now you have the start of the latitude. If you have the alpha/numerics, “environmentalists to” some degree = 44+2=46 degree. Also, backed up in the poem.
        A lot of picures have photoshopping done to them, IMO, me in the middle also important. A lot of symmetry in the pictures too. Some can be folded in half, others, you can make paper airplanes and see things. Actually done very well.

        • So…good for you Charlie. I couldn’t find any of your eye spy objects except two creepy hidden faces in the rocks and a Micky mouse shadow. No wonder I’m losing with a capital L.

          • I am with you Anna… I can only barely see some faces… Maybe my vision is bad or I need better light? Maybe a flashlight 🙂

          • Spallies, it’s great to have company. Enjoy laughing with me at me…I looked at that photo all directions for a long time before concluding what I already believed before I looked at it. And then went back and forth regarding the opposing page 57. The words “in Cave” show up on the ground as do the numbers 55. The closest I’ve been to finding a cave, is a messy 21 yr old ‘man cave’ that I will most likely have to clean
            😉 when we are over the flu.

        • I just posted something about this and My comment was deleted or never posted, but I saw it when it did post. Hmm. Are we not supposed to share certain ideas on here?? Or are these just coincidental technical problems?

    • Sean, I can help some what by doing detective work as you probably have done.
      We have to pick the pic apart. The rock Skippy is leaning on appears to be cemented to the other ones, this would tell me this is a tourist overlook. Seems to be rough water behind him. Waterfall, I would say so. The sun is high in the sky & pic was probably taken near summer solstice. His shadow is not long & the sun is behind him telling me it’s near noon. The area in which he’s standing seems to be an arc to the right. The water appears to be rushing east to west where the falls are. So know you have to find a fall that fits the clues. I would have to say it’s in Wyoming YNP or Montana. If this pic is mirrored, well, you know.

      I will find these falls only if the landscape is somewhat similar today as the pic using GE. I will let you know.

    • Sean, I can help somewhat by doing detective work as you probably have done.
      We have to pick the pic apart. The rock Skippy is leaning on appears to be cemented to the other ones, this would tell me this is a tourist overlook. Seems to be rough water behind him. Waterfall, I would say so. The sun is high in the sky & pic was probably taken near summer solstice. His shadow is not long & the sun is behind him telling me it’s near noon. The area in which he’s standing seems to be an arc to the right. The water appears to be rushing east to west where the falls are. So know you have to find a fall that fits the clues. I would have to say it’s in Wyoming YNP or Montana. If this pic is mirrored, well, you know.

      I will find these falls only if the landscape is somewhat similar today as the pic using GE. I will let you know.

  93. New Mexico state motto “crescit eundo”It grows as it goes. Just like fenns poem. Peace.

  94. All~
    Halt could also mean a “halter”. A halter will lead a horse to water. Start where these is no water. The desert? More than 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe is Camel Rock Casino. In fact it sits at 8.30 Miles in the air, and 11 Miles on the Road. I dont use Road miles though, since Forrest was a Pilot, saw everything from above. “Reins” from the halter might make a rainbow. 🙂

    • Hammer, I’m following your lead with tack terminology. The “lead” on a horse is the same spelling as the metal lead which could be a veiled reference to pack horses bearing heavy loads.

      More riding terms

      Dally: (dale vuelta) When roping, wrapping the rope counter-clockwise around the saddle horn to hold the animal or object roped. In south Texas cowboys don’t dally much but actually tie the lariat to the horn, called ‘H

      Tarry = dally. After dallying rippers pull “hard and fast” or Scant

      IMO solutionswhich haven’t surfaced: Poker terms, Cowboy terms, artist terms. I’m working hard on poker terms, but still incomplete.

      • Anna~ I just posted over on Steph’s blog Chase cat.. I just came up with this too.. So I will post it here also.
        Dup:

        This reminds me of something I read about Steve Young the other day. His father was -nick-named Grit Young. They said he was an animal. Also the GGG Grandson of Bringham Young.

        Also another similar connection I keep seeing in Wyoming is Lane Frost, the bull rider. I am not sure exactly why the connection, but I just came across it. I think it had to do with the number 8. And HoB is in the 8th line.
        I just looked it up as i was typing and it was Freckles Brown, he was Lane Frost’s mentor. But Freckles Brown home is in Hugo Oklahoma. ~ Wait, Playing a hunch? Victor “Hugo” was the author of Hunchback of Notre Dame. Joe “Montana” was the QB for Notre Dame. Also that goes with the Catcher in the RYE. or “The Catch” One of the most iconic endings in the history of the NFL. Joe Montana to Dwight Clark in the NFC Championship with the San Francisco 49er’s winning. I also just looked at Page 49 in the book, and the last words on that page and chapter, are “FROSTY’s day off”

        I just looked and the name of the Cemetery that Freckles Brown and Lane Frost are buried at, it is the same name of the Cemetery that is in RYE Colorado. So there is that connection.

        So it sounds like each element might refer back to a page number in the book for a confirmation. I have never came across a connection that fits a well as this does, in the year that I have been doing this.
        The last page in the book is completely blank. It would be page 149.

  95. Anyone know why there are 41 clouds? I hate to be a tease if you dont know what i am talking about but for those of you that do…theories? A necessary component of the solve or just a hint?
    Also, any theories as to how it might come in handy to use the horshoe formula….2x+1= length needed for horshoe.

    • Bee, here’s another one to consider – count the upper case l’s on Lanier school uniforms and window configurations. I think they were added after the photo and have my own conclusions about a few numbers. Stripes on shirts could also be subtle clues. All just opinion

  96. Also, lets theorize that the missing x in the poem is intentional…then why, what would be the purpose….to let us know what the blaze looks like? I know some of you out there know just what i am talking about….what is the purpose of the missing x? I would bank on no one knowing just yet. It would seem silly if it were missing to let us know we are looking for an x….seems highly likely that anyone seeing an x in their search area would know innately to address it. Ideas?

  97. @ hammer, today I would bet on a mind like yours to synthesize a plethora of details into a well connected web. My theory on ff is that he is exceptionally bright and has wheels within wheels spinning in rarefied fashion. While the end game in the poem appears simple, the intricately woven layers to arrive at the right spot are not. It’s a thinking game that requires adults to be savvy in applying kid logic.

    @Bee, in my humble and often wrong opinion… X=Y, be wise, look for the Y or B is good too;-) Forrest loves his Bullet . His nick name is Bubba. Maybe we’re looking for a .44magnum bullet or gun as a blaze. Mountain men, Gun fighters, horsemen, and poker players – all looked for blazes. Personally, I don’t believe anybody ever puts an X on the treasure map or in the field. I don’t believe Forrest did Either.

    • “X” is the spot where you put “Y”. upside down. So now it looks like the Lambda symbol, lower case. Think Skippy. Skip “p” your left with “Y”. Should have buried him standing up. Right place, date, time, gives you a shadow, Indiana Jones…

      • One could also skip the pp’s and arrive at ski/sky – fun for pilots like Forrest who enjoyed the spacious skies Eric Sloane painted with extrodinary skill. Night all. Wake me up in a few months, ok;-)

        • except ur not instructed to skip “pp”, so why skip them? Sounds to me to just “skip” (instruction) the second “p”, left with “Y”.
          Goes with the whole: sundial, shadow, time, date, Indiana Jones thing.
          Also, fits with the word “knowlege”.
          “Y”, standing upright at the coordinates (X), reveals the shadow to follow, IMO.
          Don’t forget “gold”.:)

        • yup, he was found standing up. Was referencing the book, we should have buried him, etc…night all.

        • SL,

          He was found in ninety feet of water with his weights still on. (heavy loads and water high).

          Seannm

  98. Anna~ Thank you. I cant see of another way that poem tells you where to go without using a specific set of directions. And I think those specific set of directions exist within, titles, books, movies, songs, chemistry, and just about anything else that you can get your hands on.

    Bee~ X is missing from the poem, whether it is intentional or not, it still should matter. Why? X is the 24th Letter of the alphabet. The Poem contains 24 lines and siX stanzas. You can never find the word six in the poem, so I think the number 6 is also crucial. X is used universally as an “unknown value”. There is no solid value that has been put on the treasure. Also the best is that X is universally associated with treasure maps. It is the most common description of what X is. X is where the treasure is. So IMO. X was probably left out on purpose, but even if it wasnt, it is still a good source of information. The first thing I did when I started this chase is learn everything about the letter X that I could, and anything associated with it directly. I have continued to use this method of searching. I think it has worked well. I do the same thing with every letter, and number. I also use the periodic table to find things too. There are alot of valuable words, letters, and numbers on a periodic table. One of them being Fe. You can make words or names by using different elements. It is fun to play around with.
    Good luck with your search
    Hammer

  99. I like all those possibilities, but it does get ones head spinning. For fun…the beginning of the movie “last crusade” we find indy saying in an archaeology class that most work is done in the library (research) and x never ever marks the spot. Later in the movie he finds that x actually marks the spot. It is a fun watch when you need a break from your own treasure hunting.

  100. Indiana also found that X in a church not a library. Also graveyards are usually associated with a church. Just a thought.

    • One of the first things that Forrest said in his book was, “my church is in the mountains”. So that sounds good looking into that context. I like it.

      • УЗНИК

        Сижу за решеткой в темнице сырой.
        Вскормленный в неволе орел молодой,
        Мой грустный товарищ, махая крылом,
        Кровавую пищу клюет под окном,

        Клюет, и бросает, и смотрит в окно,
        Как будто со мною задумал одно.
        Зовет меня взглядом и криком своим
        И вымолвить хочет: «Давай улетим!

        Мы вольные птицы; пора, брат, пора!
        Туда, где за тучей белеет гора,
        Туда, где синеют морские края,
        Туда, где гуляем лишь ветер… да я!…»

        – А.С.Пушкин

        • PRISONER

          I am behind bars in a dungeon crude.
          The eagle raised in bondage young,
          My sad companion, waving a wing,
          Pecks bloody food under a window,

          Pecks, both throws, and looks out of the window,
          As though with me I conceived one.
          Calls me a look and the shout
          And wants to utter: “Let’s depart!

          We are free birds; it is time, the brother, is time!
          There, where behind a cloud the mountain grows white,
          There, where sea edges become blue,
          There, where we walk only a wind … yes I! …”

          – A.S. Pushkin

        • hello, just moments ago a red tail hawk killed and ate a squirrel ,not 20 ft from my window,and yea i love to play. do you ? this is the longest game i have ever played 4 yr. and i think im losing lol

  101. I’ve learned about Yellowstone Wyoming. Forts in Colorado. Ghost mines in butte montana and ancient Pueblo’s in nm. I’ve learned about trout. Bears. Eagles. Native American. Soldiers and famous people named Brown where they lived and how they died. Learned about rivers. Creeks canyons waterfalls. Old memorials old churches and old grave yards. I also have cancer awareness now. I found a blog where people from different backgrounds come together for a solution. All treasures indeed. All this and I haven’t left home yet.

  102. I’ve learned about Yellowstone Wyoming. Forts in Colorado. Ghost mines in butte montana and ancient Pueblo’s in nm. I’ve learned about trout. Bears. Eagles. Native Americans. Soldiers. Famous people named Brown where they lived and how they died. Learned about rivers. Creeks. Canyon’s. Waterfalls. Old memorials. Old churches and old grave yards. I also I have cancer awareness now. I found a blog where people from different backgrounds come together for a solution. All treasures indeed. All this and I haven’t left home yet.

    • Steve~~~~ I find it odd that you typed this out 2 different times. Either you have a great memory, or the technical aspects of this blog have a mind of its own. I think it’s neither. However I am glad you are opening up, and learning all those amazing things. Good luck to you.

      This blog is off its rocker. I don’t quite understand it yet, but I can certainly tell, its not what it appears to be. As my caution continues, I really hope the reason is for something good, and worthy to our future. It’s a waste of time if not. Until then. I’ll just keep on keepin on.
      Thanks dal

      • The first time I sent it the web site shut down on me then i sent it again. Must of still went through.

      • Hammer-
        You might be right. So I’m not going to point out that I think one of the paintings in the Gaspard book is a picture of where Indulgence is hidden. Nor will I point out that Leon Gaspard is an anagram for “Lasagne Drop”…Geese! Did I really just say that?

        • Dal. You got it. Well the anagram part.
          I’ll answer yes on the geese part.
          Ohhhhhhh. You sneaky bastard!

      • Hammertime,
        Times seem to have changed here but I am hanging to see what time it is. Hope you do too.

        • I enjoy most of everything. I need a good laugh every once in a while. Shaking things up makes time easy. My mother has a nice collection of snow globes, and whenever I go over to her house, I shake the snow globes up, only because I feel bad for the snowflakes just sitting in the same spot for a long periods of time. So when I shake it up, they all fall into new places and make to friends. I have a feeling the snowflakes get excited when they know I’m coming over.

    • It’s good to be reminded of that every once in a while, especially when you end up surrounded by naysayers. Sometimes I just come here for my sanity check.

    • okay, one more comment, regarding “it’s still real” could ff be talking about paintings? A forgery of a real painting is still a real painting..IMO!

      • Cholly, your idea has merit but I don’t think the treasure is a forgery. It’s my opinion that Forrest’s poker epigraph sets the big picture tone of his memoir, and likely includes a literal & geographical bluff not far from TC location.

        Someone recently suggested a more in depth study of the letter X which is both interesting and revealing. Bottom line for me is that X is equivalent in several languages to KS, also hourglass butterfly shape. IMO the final blaze will be KS for his daughter Kelly Sparks(still not sure why). There are tributes to family and friends easily mined from the poem but I have not been able to find Kelly or Sparks, although an obvious synonym for sparks is blaze. Perhaps that may help someone looking next spring.

        • @anna – was thinking more along the lines about paintings by masters and how he and John Connally had purchased famous forgeries and the reaction of the public regarding fakes, not the TC. I’m a true believer in the realness of the TC being out there still! IMO

  103. Somebody needs to tell fenn to go get the chest and buy the Bengals a new back up quarter back. They need I more than anybody.

    • Ha! Good idea but I don’t think that would be enough money! Maybe whoever wins the Power Ball can help them out or heck buy the whole team 🙂

  104. @Jake, thanks, I try to stay open to all types of music, pretty much stuck in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. Never heard that group before, thanks.

  105. That’s exactly the song I had in mind when I made reference to Willy Wonka! IMO, imagination is 90% of solving this poem.

  106. I’d like to discuss options of interpretations or methodologies of solving the poem. This topic page was the best I could find for this discussion, but if Dal or Goofy believe another is more appropriate… please feel free to move it.
    All at the moment are versions of methods I have read about and some of my own… feel free to add what you like, or express concerns about my definitions of a method.

    ~ One method of approach to solving the poem is directional / botg only. This appears to be that, a searcher must travel to places and find clues in the process.
    ~ Another closely related is, Directional, that once the poem is solved the searcher traces /tracks the clues to the location of the chest.
    ~ Yet another is, solve the poem directional and walk to the location of the chest.
    ~ The poem may be of another that the Author is telling of.
    ~ The poem seemingly is explaining a very large area of clues, that tunnel down to a single spot. [ Size.. Country[s], state[s], county[s] ].
    ~ The poem is all about a single location [ size being less then 500′ for example].
    ~ The poem is all about the book. [ This is more of a theme to a solve, then of hints or clues ]
    ~ The poem is a puzzle. Clues are found in this manor.
    ~ The poem is about history. The locations are historical.
    ~ Clues and hints in the book solve the clues within the poem.
    ~ The poem is about a time era of the authors life, either in part or in full.
    ~ The poem is about a time an era in time prior to the Authors birth.

    I could add more to this list, [codes, ciphers, alien eggs etc.] yet I’ll stop here. These are what some of methods I have read from other searchers postings, and ‘my’ interpretations of those methods. I’d like to now throw out a few of my own for even more thoughts. With the understanding that some of what I will add has been discussed already, and some not so much.

    * The clues in the poem are about geography, the creation and destruction by natural occurrences of the RM’s that points to a single location.
    * Clues are about life and death.
    * Clues point to the journey of the ancients. or how we got here.
    * The description in the clues of the poem are to be understood, at the starting point, and the location of the chest is the same. [ the starting point is told in the poem ].
    * The starting point is outside the tftw map… The clues in the poem explain of this, and that starting point tells of the location of the chest, that is located in the RM’s [ This is more a theory, then a method ]. I’ll add not a very reasonable one as well.

    Then again these are all theories. And to my point. There are almost as many ways to interpret the poem, as there are locations to search for clues. We have been told that; The poem containing nine clues that if ‘followed’ precisely, will lead to the end of ff rainbow and the treasure… How do you read/follow the poem? No need for what clues are or are not… just the method of reading the poem.

    • Seeker,
      Thank you for suggesting this topic. After going through a number of interpretations with and without BOTG, I found the search is like playing a video game with locations, rooms and multiple doors. I open one door and can find a few doors that lead me to other rooms–some relevant and some not. The best translation I found was from Jeremy P. when he produced the critical analysis of Briggs interpretation. This interpretation along with using FF’s comment as a weight on it’s validity has brought me to a new level/room in the search/game.

      I’m not a gamer, but as a child I was and I enjoy watching my kids and grandkids play video games. So, I use this infrastructure in my approach.

      As far as applying the clues and hints, there are so many themes/subjects with some having more weighted values than others. I’m starting to believe that the 66,000 links are connections/possibilities with the poem.

      I wish I kept a list of hints and clues with associated connections when I started the process with interpreting the poem.

      In my latest interpretation, it’s like a relational/multdimensional DB that links to the TTOTC book hints, scrapbooks, geographical location (history with topography), and the poem.

      Knowing how a dealer (not cards but art and antiques) thinks is important IMO as well as different phases in life. Determining the word that is key is difficult but using the Briggs partial interpretation helps narrow the area but does not solve the poem. IMO Interpreting the poem like a child (FF’s childhood) has helped me interpret the poem, but not solve it.

      I’m still looking in NM and found an area that contains so many connections, it’s difficult to pinpoint the precise location. Kinda like interpreting most of the clues except for the last couple.

      As I went through each possible interpretation, I found that different sections of the poem were relevant and others not to each interpretation with some overlapping.

      Now, I am at the room where it brings in multiple clues and hints from the books, scrapbooks and poem to a NM location. Unfortunately, I can’t go to the location until March because it’s too cold.

      All of this IMO.

      • Glad to be of assistance, Rose. I’m not really sure what part of that inspired your search, but I appreciate the nod. Was it one of words that patterns/words that came out of running the decrypter? (No need to mention anything specific)

        • Jeremy,
          I was wondering if you have an e-mail you can share… I would like to talk to you about something unrelated to the chase, and more about your artistic talent.
          Apologize for the quick off topic post.

        • Jeremy,
          Without giving too much away.

          The “Go west. In a short hour you see a big lake, etc. interpretation. Mirror this trail. Aim south and look heading west for a grey ‘F’ sign”.

          When I mapped this out on paper, it matched my interpretation of the poem, but a section was missing. Then, when I looked at the map, I saw lots of names that were in the scrapbooks. There are just too many coincidences.

          The mirror hint has showed up a couple times in my interpretations. Not that I was looking for it, it popped up and a light bulb went off.

          I did what FF said to do the past week which was to read the poem, read the book and read the poem again. When I did this the last time, I did it as if I was preparing for a test. Try it.

          It’s been a long journey and if you have the right location–I think, the poem works to a certain degree and the hints and other clues confirm the location. It’s the last bit I think requires BOTG. I think someone said that you can’t see indulgence from Google maps/earth. But, I’m not sure. IMO But I don’t have indulgence….

          • @Rose – Just to keep it straight, that is the phrase that Andrew Briggs says is revealed by applying his method. I can’t take any credit for it. He came up with that. Happy to hear it’s working out for you, though, and best of luck out there.

            @Seeker – Thanks! it’s jeremysdropbox@gmail.com Sometimes I take awhile to reply, but I try not to take forever.

    • ” The poem may be of another that the Author is telling of.” Please explain, If I’m following you correctly, you are saying ff’s poem is talking about a different poem from another author?
      jl

      • Not a different poem or even another author [ maybe]. Unless that person was an author, but would be unrelated to the chase. The thought here was of the ancients or native culture, and fenn is narrating that person[s] story or travels… and cleverly disguising and wording the poem to that.
        This falls to the question of who Is I ? in the poem. Is it simply ff or could it possibly be of another and the locations mentioned have a connection to both fenn and this other[s] in the poem.
        Maybe is father, Mother etc. This was and kinda still is on my mind as to why the question in the poem … So why is it I must go And leave my trove for all to seek?

        And possibly why the word “I’ve” is used in this stanza to the “As I have” in stanza one… Not to mention the word use of treasures to trove. It may even be connected to why “if you’ve been wise and found the Blaze” is in past tense to the rest of stanzas 2 3 4 in present tense. Are we to look for another’s trail that fenn use to guide us to his treasures? Some searcher enjoy the Lewis and Clark exposition as the trail that must be followed. Who knows, but it is a theory.

        • seeker
          ” The poem may be of another that the Author is telling of.” My answer is no from my interpretation of the poem. But does include variations of some of the others you mentioned. It is hard to be specific without disclosing too much, but one key piece for me was when FF something along the lines of start at the beginning, there are no short cuts.Sorry I don’t keep the quotes or where I hear them I just operate off of memory and only keep what I deem useful in my data base.IMO
          jl

          • I think It could be confusing with that wording, let me rephrase. ” The poem may be of another that ff , the author of the poem, is telling of.”

          • My answer is still no, I did some research and wasted away about 6-8 weeks working along that line of thought just didn’t pan out for me.imo
            jl

          • That’s fine JL, I was just trying to clarify it. So you think the poem is directional and to be followed? I assume. that’s fine as well. I have a few idea floating in my head as well.

          • Yes Directional, for lack of a better word. My take is its more complex then that but that is a good place to start if not at the beginning. The statement of give it to a child is under simplifying the poem IMO and although there are kids who are very gifted I think their lack of experience would hinder them.
            jl

        • Seeker,
          Rather than the L&C trail I lean toward the emmigrant trail if I were following a trail to a rainbow. Although most of my efforts are not on following a trail for what it’s worth. Just adding to your ideas.

  107. Seeker, Thanks for keeping the ‘thinking’ on going. I vote for straight forward poem interpretation, keep it simple. No games or gimmicks. Just read and think. Come up with a plan and give it a shot. Try and include family and have some fun. IMO

    Does anyone know if the Grizzly Bear population around YNP is greater now than in the 1930’s and 1940’s or about the same? Hard to imagine being 13 yo and hiking alone in YNP…..this day and age.

    • cholly,
      I think the current griz population in the Yellowstone is around 900. In the early 1800’s there were an estimated 50,000 in the RM’s. By 1930 they where down to a few hundred in the Yellowstone region. I think people embellish their bear sightings and that most are black bears of the brown color phase, It always makes a better story at the trail head. Black bears can be just as dangerous if not more so IMO. Most bears I have encountered which has been in the 15 -20 range, are just as thankful to be shy of you as you are of them. But plan for the worse and hope for the best I say.
      jl

      • JL, LIA, Jake, et al, RE: YNP Griz pop back then vs now, that’s exactly what I was thinking,comparing and contrasting, would today’s parents allow their young teenage kids to head out for a day of exploring back country YNP the same way Forrest did in the 1940’s….I lived in AK for 5 years and only saw one Brownie, convinced myself it was a moose so as not to freak out, (even though I had a 7MM with me) never saw a black bear in AK, have seen about a dozen here in N. Calf (blacks and cinnamon) and they almost always run as fast as they can….Anyhow, was thinking how much different it would have been back then, trying to think about just where his ‘private and personal’ spot is located….thanks for the links, read a few, interesting how the bears help spread berry seeds. IMO

        • I think I’m a bear attractant, I run into them every where. I Wasn’t in Alaska but a couple of days till I ran into a grizz fishing on a side creek. My wife bought me a bracelet with a silver grizzly by a big boulder because I run into bears so often.
          jl

      • BEARS:
        1930-1960’s YSP Bears were few in number and predictable because they were fed at the garbage dumps…considered more of a tourist attraction. (Craighead bros. bear biology research coupled with 1975 grizzly endangered species designation changed ‘the game’. )

        Now, 800-1000 healthy, Wild grizz roam inside and outside of Yellowstone. Grizz, and Wolf packs are apex predators…If searching WY, MT, YNP… You are in their home; they are built to kill. People look & smell like a meal from 2 miles away.

        Bear spray won’t help if attacked from behind. They are fast and deadly. Go see “The Revenant”

        If you plan to search where apex predators live, hike in groups of 4-5 adults with a “designated lookout-person” who Watches surroundings rather than searching.

        Be smart, be aware, so that you can have fun outdoors. When f hid his chest, he knew families would search with small children – I tend to believe he did not hide it deep in predator territory. Ff says it’s not in a dangerous place.

        **Most of us are not trained in survival, tracking, etc as Dal and Forrest are.**

  108. I think most searchers make this search almost an impossibility. Most of us tend to over think our own everyday problems and try to solve the poem that way. I have written many times before about it but here it is again: If a searcher thinks like an adult they better be playing the lotto, but if the person tries to think like a kid they can solve the clues.I wish I could say more, but for obvious reasons I cannot. Until the chest get found this is my opinion. RC.

    • @RC, ‘life is a mystery to be lived, not a problem to be solved’ is my guiding motto for my every day challenges! But, there is a slight problem with the Chase and that is time and money, mostly lack of the latter! I appreciate what you have to say and offer on here, thanks.

      • @Cholly I do not know where you live, but you only need a car, and gas money to get there. If you eat a good breakfast, or lunch, or dinner you can find the treasure chest and go back and hide it in your home, somewhere. My opinion R.C.

    • RC,

      You say read the poem as kid would think. There have been many that have done just that… so I’m curious to what method a kid would see it as well. Directional? Disney movies? Things old and new? Do kids see words like halt so differently then adults?
      There must be a way for you to explain your comment without a show and tell all.

      • @ Seeker Common sense Seeker. There is a video about a 4 year old in Youtube who called 911 to ask for help with his “take aways”. The mom finds this out and ask the kid the reason he is on the phone, and he says something like “You told me if I need help I could dial 911”. This is the kind of thinking it’ll take, unadulterated common sense. My opinion. RC.

        • Well ya got my curiosity up and I had to have a look see… Hmm 5 take way 5. First, I’m impressed that a 4 year old is doing math homework. But I don’t see how a child [ in this case ] could read the poem in full… ok maybe this 4 year old can. I was still working in ‘see spot run’ at that age. Lets bump it up to a kid of age 9 or 10. Will they see the same as the 4 yr.old? Could you possibly give a small example to the actual poem.. I was never good at take aways but better at how many apples are there is Sally has three and John has two? At age four “take aways” was a punishment.

  109. A couple of disjointed congruent comments – I think the odds of me finding Indulgence are about the same as me winning the $1.3 billion dollar Lotto game this coming Wednesday night.

    Why’s that – you might ask? Because you have to pay to play. For better or worse, it has become more and more evident to me that I won’t be the finder because it is not who I am to take financial risks. I’m definitely “a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush” kind of guy. Ever since I was a youngster in high school, when it came to finances, I have been frugal.

    In other areas of my personal life I was pretty footloose and fancy free, as they say. But the chance of me finding the chest in the next few years is pretty slim, if at all, because I am unwilling to spend money on a “wild goose chase” – or as Mr. Fenn would say, I should stick to Canasta.

    I’ll keep plugging away on a solve that takes me to Indulgence, but until I am sure of it, I’m staying home. I recognize I’m being about as much fun as a stick in the mud, but I’ll keep checking in here to see how things are going with you all and add comment, insight or my opinon to other’s posts.

    Good luck to you all!

    swwot

  110. In my solution the treasure is near the summit. Not at the top because Fenn said it wasn’t on top of a mountain but that doesn’t mean it’s not just below the top.

    • How do you read the poem to get you there? There are a lot of mountain tops in the RM’s some how the poem either explains which one or directs you to travel to it. or is there another method of reading the poem you use to understand the clues?

    • I can’t give you all my secrets but I will share this one. A colophon is a mark at the end of a book…..colophon means summit/peak. Somewhere he talked about the crown of his cowboy hat (Crown Jewels that is) I’m the opposite of you Seeker, where you rely solely on the poem I’m mostly a book guy TTOTC

  111. I had asked dal about the part that says,the end of forrest rainbow and the treasure,if it was part of the poem and he said ,no it wasn’t. So my question to dal is ,why do you think it got put at the top of page ,was. It just talk.leading before the poem started.did mr.forrest ok this.thanks .

        • Thanks Uken-
          Okay..if Virginia is referencing Page 132 in TTOTC than I still agree with what I wrote her earlier. In my opinion that is not part of the poem. It got put at the top of the page because he ran out of space on the previous page. I think that’s how books work. You write a lot of stuff and when you fill up one page the words continue on the next page.
          It may look like there was enough room to put those few words on the previous page but maybe Forrest didn’t feel that way or maybe he wanted to have the last part of his introduction to the poem appear on the same page as the poem.
          But clearly it is not part of the poem. The poem is in brown text on that page to make it stand apart from other text.
          Those words don’t appear with any other reproduction of the poem:
          on his website
          on the map
          in TFTW

          Is this a trick question?
          Am I missing something?

  112. OFF TOPIC
    NEW CONTEST ANNOUNCED
    Winter blues got you feeling low?
    Want something fun to do that’s TTOTC related?

    Look at the top of this page. Right under the header photo. The far right tab now takes you to Sacha’s Tee Shirt Design Contest for Tee Shirts at Fennboree…
    Get out your favorite set of markers or your favorite drawing program and get started. You can submit an entry thru February 10th. We all vote on February 11th and 12th..
    May the coolest design win!!!!

  113. here’s a thought, this may sound like I’m questioning if he really did hide a chest, I’m not, but, this has got me thinking. We all know he said he was going to die at the spot with his treasure, hence the line he was going to initially use “Just take the chest and leave my bones”. So this means the chase would be on so-to-say. My question is, what was he going to do about his mode or modes of transportation?

    We know he took an auto for some part of the way, what was he going to do about that car? A search for him would have went out, car probably found pretty easy, a search of the area, etc… probably would have found him, so, no “thrill of the chase”. We can’t say “well he recovered so he didn’t need to worry about it”. If so, why the initial line thought? He had already recovered.

    Leaving his transportation to whatever fate would give : local searchers, family, and friends an unfair advantage. So, what was he going to do so everything was on an even platform?

    The only thing I can think of is a boat or kayak of some kind. 42lbs is pretty heavy, so couldn’t walk too far with it. A small boat or raft could travel a long way, and be destroyed pretty easy. Would have to be a long river with spots of isolation. It’s the only thing I can think of that supports his initial thought.

    He said he always knew where he was going to leave it, so, why the car and two trips in one afternoon thing. Hmmmm, it doesn’t help anything so maybe it’s not a question that matters. Just a thought.

  114. Charlie, Forrest said he thought of everything, which doesn’t help answer your question. I wonder what he had planned to disguise the smell of his decaying body.