The Nine Clues…Part FiftyNine


This post has been closed to comments. Please go to the latest Nine Clues post to add to the discussion.

This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

828 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…Part FiftyNine

  1. Tis time to sit back and think, as winter’s icy grip encroachs upon our perspective
    search areas. Some questions to ponder: Is warm water halting where fly fishing begins? Is the home of Brown animal, mineral or plant? And let’s not forget the canyon down.. Could this be a crayon brown?

    A hundred questions and but one answer.

    • I do think WWWH is close to fly fishing and HOB is related to fish or maybe an animal but I can’t say that canyon down means canyon brown to me,,,,,, but what do I know! 🙂

        • Onuat,

          I casually look in on Dal’s site, but I have to congratulate you for “thinking like a ten year old”. Yellow, blue and red was an early part of my solve.

          Are you a boots on the ground searcher?

          • Keith,
            I often wonder why Forrest has mentioned red/black/green teas and why purple and yellow flowers grow where no one see,s. And then we have the famous Brown. In my opinion!!! All this talk about color leads me to believe that Brown is in reference to a color and not a name.
            I am in the New Mexico camp. I have only been out twice because I live so far,far away and it can put a big hole in my pocket. Snails pace. 🙂
            If it weren’t for the chase I would have never thought to visit this beautiful,mysterious land. 🙂
            What would you rather do? Sit in a casino going deaf or in the wilderness dreaming. No regrets . 🙂

        • I think “Put in below the home of Brown” indicates a change of direction from the 3 lines above. You have an option in which direction to go, right left, backwards etc… But either way it is clearly a directional choice for you.

        • Suppose Brown is a filler word… could have been Green or Grey…. maybe the clue is, Put in below the home.

          • Why do you think Fenn capped Brown?
            To throw many of you to the wolves.
            I see it has worked to perfection.
            Most of you think it’s a real home when the reality is it’s just a confirmation of what direction you need to go & Fenn is the only one that knows this for sure IMO.

  2. Creeks, streams, and rivers generally meet where water flows down… not on the ridges of canyons. One might observe the Canyon (which canyon?) as the starting point as it can set a logical context. A literal name as Canyon can be intuited by any small child to be “the canyon”. One may assume for a second that Fenn would make this simple enough for a 9 year year old to enjoy hiking while interpreting the clues without overthinking them. How many different roads, canyons, parks, & spaces of land have the word Canyon as a part of their name? A simple marker to set the context for clue #2.

    • Probably about 1000. “Red River Canyon” “Yellow Stone River Canyon” etc. All the ones I’ve explored have Canyon, gulch etc in the name!

      • My take is that if you can find THE place WWWH, the canyon will reveal itself. Otherwise, I believe you’ll be chasing your own tail. IMO.

  3. I’m of the opinion that these are all taken too literally by most. I believe the entire poem may be Indian myth.

    The treasure is Forrest’s redemption into the fifth world. One line gives this away.

    BIWWWH is almost certainly a state of body or soul. He gave us a big hint with “all paths will take you there” .

    Brown are probably Indians. The capital B is in reverence.

    I’d be interested in seeing a list of the closest corresponding Indian myths to every line.

    • Chris, it’s a very romantic notion, but how would you extract coordinates that place you within a few feet of the treasure from the mythology?

      • That’s where the genius of his poem resides. The myths and words within contain double meaning.. Example: not far but too far to walk… Is the spirit world. That’s the direction to the town “spirit world” .. Can’t give much more than that other than to hand you the treasure. Ha.

        I know a few myths and a few lines of the peom but many are not available online. Old books and speaking to the wise ones are the key here.

        • “Old books … are the key here.”

          How then do you interpret FF’s comments that everything you need to find the treasure is contained in the poem?

      • To differentiate after the arrival of Caucasians …The indians refer to themselves as brown people.. Red is the white man’s term for them. It’s now considered somewhat derogatory.

      • Definitely not, the Nine Clues are like a superball that keeps bouncing around in my head. I will be alright, Thank You.

        • How many times you go out this last season? From what you indicate your season is over. Though others seem to be trying to squeeze one more.

          • I spent the last 2 months in the HOB, and am on my way home for Thanksgiving … be there today. I believe I was so close, that is why it is tormenting me.

          • This is for Chesney, some reason he did not get a reply button. Man,,, I am jealous! Two months!… I got one trip and it was three days. I feel a very productive three days, but two months. Must be great to have the freedom. Is the HOB, THE HOB, home of Yogi, or unique to your solve?

  4. I’ve been thinking more about the idea that perhaps wwwh means somewhere along the continental divide. The question would be, how do you narrow down a line that crosses the length of the Rockies to one starting spot?

    How about specific points along the divide that are unusual or stand out in some way. Maybe because of unusual or unique water flow features at a specific point.

    For example:
    Isa Lake in yellowstone sits right on the divide. During the spring runoff, it’s the only known natural lake whose waters eventually drain to both the Atlantic and Pacific ocean backwards. (east side drains to Pacific and west side drains to Atlantic)

    There’s also the “Parting of the Waters” in the Teton Wilderness where Two Ocean Creek splits in two and each side drains to a different ocean.

    Finally there’s Triple Divide Peak in Glacier National Park which is one of the few places on Earth where, depending on what side of the mountain it’s on, water could end up in one of three different oceans.

    Anyone know of any other places along the divide where the waters do something unique?

    • These were my first thoughts also, i never found any more then you have now. and I could never find a HOB using the ones above.

    • Springer,

      You may not get many who care for the CD as a hint or clue. But if I may make a suggestion… Don’t ‘try to narrow it down’ to any point or Line in the poem. My thought process is there is more than just lines for understanding hints and clues in regards to this theory. For me, most of the poem seems to lean that way.

      You have come up with the three suggestions for uniqueness, Yet is missing one… not that it is the important one, or even important… just saying. I think… at least in the way I read the poem, line matching clues don’t work, Just my opinion. I know that is hard to do, cuz everyone seems to read it that way, Yet look how far that has gone.

      Just something to think about, especially with the direction you are looking into.

    • Maybe it’s not the waters that do something unique but the viewer of them. Warm waters that make a person or group “halt”.

        • Sorry, I got bored typing in Sub or Subscribe and was running out of English words…

          Subarashii 素晴しい: Japanese for marvelous, wonderful, splendid, magnificent

          In honor of all the beautiful items found inside Indulgence 🙂

          What is SP? Sparashii???

          • spallies, Riding the storm out? Waitin’ for the thaw out? Seems you mentioned storms not too lang ago… Hope you don’t lose power. Or maybe it’s something else. 🙂 I didn’t know you speak Japanese!
            But IMO the beautiful items inside Indulgence are more than just visual….They’re emotional and powerful… They’ll touch the very essence of one’s being. Now that’s Spell Power!

  5. Has anyone considered that winter time might be a better time to search? I understand the deep snow part, but there would be less foliage and waterways are at their lowest that time of the year.Snow is dependent upon elevation and wind will keep lots of area’s clear of snow.

    • JL, I don’t think “worth the cold” and hypothermia are the same…
      But maybe that’s why I’m chestless…lol!

      • LOL!

        I was looking at a webcam of my area today and I just shivered at the prospect of being out in the wilds right now. There’s a point where brave becomes foolhardy, IMO.

      • Jdiggins,
        I agree but there are different degrees of cold. Crossing a knee high stream in the summer time, I don’t consider cold. I had a spot where I used to hunt elk, at one time there was a foot bridge across a small river but after being washed out several springs in a row nobody repaired it. I would take my boots, socks and pants off and hurry across. Early in the fall it was cold but late in the season it was painful I found if I wore Crocs or water shoes I could make it across a lot faster which made it bearable. I have lots of experience with being cold but extreme cold is Cold and Wet to me. I have always associated “worth the cold” with water. IMO

    • I think I’ve heard, F, say you won’t find the chest on spring break or a sunday picnic. You may be on to something.

  6. I spent quite some time trying to make the Continental Divide work, but found it quite impossible to marry any part of it to the poem other than a vague relationship to “go in peace” with the Pacific Creek/Ocean. However, that kind of thinking might bear fruit in a different direction.

  7. Last sentence on Pg 103 in TTOTC and
    “go in peace”, go together. IMO.
    But really, it’s true. 😉

  8. Springer42-
    I like your idea of Glacier’s Triple Peak. I have wondered if WWWH might be a reference to the Triple Point of water — as this is the scientific place where warm water could be gas, solid or liquid. Warm water can halt anywhere, in many ways, but it will always halt at only one place = it’s triple point.

  9. Man I hope there’s some people here tonight. I’d like to share a thought with the group. My dog’s anxious to see if she can hunt? I’m going to wait a few minutes and then post my new thoughts on the hoB. In fact the whole second stanza. I know if I’m right I’m stepping on my own toes but that’s okay. I’m good with that… Teddy would say “Bully!”
    Mark H. Back in Five!

  10. Hey… did you guys see the Expedition Unknown Forrest Fenn episode tonight on travel channel? Huge new clue!

  11. Hey Aureus,
    I’m Mark, and yep many of us have seen it. I think it originally aired last week… and it was fantastic… wasn’t it? I’m think n’ how awesome it would be to be adopted by that Wright family… I dig em’!
    I’m going to wait a few more minutes before I post my new hoB. Let me know what ya think and I’ll check back tomorrow!
    Mark H.

  12. Occasionally, I like tossing out an idea that more often than not, leads to a deep hole… This time maybe not so much!

    The hoB… I was think n’ is Spain… and in the new world…. and in New Mexico it is Espanola? Wiki it up!

    I had been using this line of thinking for Miami or Cuba which could also be the home of the Brown… when it hit me… bam?
    Onate… the reliquary.

    I still wonder however… If using the capital B to describe Brown people is correct? 🙂

    Stanza 2
    wwwh Rio/Chama
    Canyon 285
    hoB Espanola

    I have a spin on the next stanza but I was think n’ one thing at a time?

    Trying to think past race and religion in this new millennium, is sometimes difficult… and using brown to describe a people was probably a deep hole… what do you all think?
    Mark H.

    • I had a similar thought a while back, but it involved the Missouri Compromise. Above was home of Brown and below was not.

      Scott W.

      • Hwy Scott, got ya on the Miss. Comp. thing… not slavery but that Spain still retained this part of the US, thus the hoB, but I was kinda taking it another step. I’m glad you replied. What I was think n’ was the “Last Conquistadore, Juan De Onate had declared NM… “Nuevo México, for Spain and Espanola as it’s Capital prior to Santa Fe. New Spain? ???

        • Interesting.

          I will have to do so research on that.

          Unfortunately, I do not know enough about it just yet to have even a semi-intelligent discussion.

          Looks like I am going to know all there is to know about Juan De Onate by the week-end. 🙂

          Thanks for the reply.

          Scott W.

  13. Dal. It was so much fun. Glad I could be a part of the Chase. HAPPY THANKSGIVING enjoy the Turkey and your Family. 😉

    • Good Job Amy

      It was nice to see you in person. Love your darlin accent.

      Happy Thanksgiving to you and everyone here. I’m so thankful for all of you.

          • Ha! I just meant to see her in the video! It would be fun to meet her in person though! She is as smiley and cheerful as I imagined! Happy Turkey Lurkey Day everyone or is that Turkey Lurker 🙂

    • Amy, did I understand correctly that you are from Tyler, TX? I am from Mt. Pleasant, TX but now live out in Southern California. I still have family there and communicate with them often. I have not been back that way in many years though.

      From the sounds of it, yall are having some “waters high” all throughout the Northeast Texas areas. I wish that we could get some of the rains out here. Also, tornadoes in December?? Weather is definitely changing all over. People out here are always asking me how I could deal with tornadoes. I tell them that you get use to them and take shelter, or go on to sleep like everyone else…lol. No difference than the dang earthquakes out here. But then, people still think that CA is going to fall off into the Pacific Ocean one day.

      Thanks for representing us folks from our neck of the woods! Happy Hunting!

  14. In the chase

    Thank u. I told Duane it looks like I’m on crack ha ha ha. That’s just the Chase Rush u get. Omg that accent is something else. It’s kinda like Chicken Fried Steak. 🙂
    Ha ha ha . We had fun. I sure do appreciate what Forrest has put together for us all. All our friends here are amazing. 🙂

  15. Spallies

    Thank u. I was just having fun. I had no idea how to really answer their questions. 😉

  16. Ugh, ate the turkey and pies, fell asleep, now wide awake, haunted by calories and arteries and such, so thinking diversionary thoughts about:

    Fenn’s “mucky” years after the 1988 cancer diagnosis, when he wrote a poem that ended with “leave my bones.” I believe he already had the final resting place in mind at that time.

    But I don’t believe he would disappear himself and leave a puzzle poem for Peggy to unravel. He might create a poem of assurance for her, containing shared life markers that she would recognize but others would not; so that she would have the peace of mind (which many war widows did not), of knowing where their loved one’s bones lay. And him knowing that she would respect his final choice because she “always allowed me the luxury of doing the things I thought were important.” (Flywater).

    Did he plan to take a stash of gold & jewels with him to the grave? I think he would have taken items that were personally meaningful, i.e., letters, photos, poems, some personal trinkets, (an autobio?), and maybe a big jewel or two just to convince any casual finder or future archaeologist that he had been a man of wit and means.

    But then remission happened. Focus on a burial ritual became a treasure hunt. The hidey place stayed the same but the poem had to change because it’s purpose changed. How did the poem change? Was it only those lines “leave my bones” ? Did a pricey renaissance box with female figures on 4 sides have a different significance before remission? When did getting kids off the sofa become a motive?

    Was an elaborate hide and “secret where” a spiritual negotiation — like the thankful promise to a waterfall in Vietnam?

    A legacy-making stunt fits Fenn’s nature, his irrepressible vigor and humor, his confidence & ego. We’ve already heard from several participants on this blog how this hunt helped them thru difficult times. Obsession or tight-focus is a psychological salve for anxiety.

    It wouldn’t be hard to do the hidey trip without Peggy. They had taken separate vacations in the past (Flywater), and I imagine that Fenn would have done a lot of separate traveling for various educational and business purposes before 1988. It would be rare during the early years of recovery, but seemingly normal a decade later.

    IMO these early things may shade interpretations of the poem. Or not. Just some thoughts after turkey & pie recovery.

  17. For all new bloggers: if you really want to find the treasure stick to just solving the poem, and only the poem. There much information floating in the air, and imagination runs wild in any human being. The poem has the answers you are seeking. It seems impossible to solve but believe me it is not. Even though Mr. Fenn intended for people to go out into the mountains and look for it one will never find it that way. The poem is the key, and only the poem. All of this is my opinion until I get my hands on that treasure chest. RC.

    • Don’t agree. Are you interpreting his poem, or yourself? The subtle sensibilities of a man inform HIS reasoning and HIS choices. I think it’s smart to consider all the evidence.

      • Yes, but that comes after you have at least started to work out what the poem is telling you. A lot of people have tried to base WWWH on FF’s love of fishing, for example. That is a road to nowhere, IMO. We’ve heard thousands of different interpretations of FF’s line of thought – and they end up mostly based on the interpreter’s reasoning.

    • Or maybe we should do as he instructed: “What I recommend is that you read my book, normally. Then you read the poem over and over and over again. And think about every line. Read it 4, 5 or 10 times. And then go back again and read the book, slowly, looking for hints in the book that will help you with clues in the poem.” No disrespect intended, RC or vp, but I’ll go with what the author said on this one.

      • Spoon, I think that’s perfectly valid. Just don’t forget that he also said, “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem.”

        Q. Where is the solid data?
        A. In the poem.

  18. I’m new to this having just seen the T.V. show but am jumping in full force.

    1/He admits having made the trip in an afternoon from his home in Sante Fe, NM. So I’m isolating all starting points to be in New Mexico… what reasons do people have to think he’d travel to Yellowstone?

    • Samantha,
      Welcome. I think you might be jumping to a conclusion with the previous statement. In my opinion the “Chase” is based on the prerequisite of choose your words wisely.

      • Samantha, don’t assume his start point was Santa Fe. I don’t think he’s ever said that, otherwise why would the search area spread as far as the Canadian border (and even that limit was the result of an error!).

    • @Samantha, look before you leap! Slow down, you got some catching up to do! While I tend to want to believe the chest is in the New Mexico and Southern Colorado area he didn’t say one afternoon from his home in SF. He said two trips from his car in one afternoon, and he could have had access to three locked gates on private lands that we don’t have! I typically make two trips to my car when I get dropped off at the airport too! Welcome, enjoy and be careful what you hear, read and say on this blog, there is a hallway monitor guy, sort of Goofy like who will kick you off for stating untruths!! Try reading the Scrapbooks and Vignettes, read what people were sharing in 2013 and 2014, all in my opinion and again, welcome!

    • Hello Samantha, and welcome to the Chase!!

      I’ve been involved for several years and have never seen this—-> He admits having made the trip in an afternoon from his home in Sante Fe, NM…..

      Could you provide a link to where you heard/read this???

      (Goofy, do you have a link to it??)

      Good Luck to You, Sam…..loco 🙂

  19. If a wise man sent you on arduous task and then offered you advise on how to accomplish said task why would you not accept his advise? Yes I believe the poem has all the information you need, but if you have a hunch or an intuition from the book you should be able to find the answer in the poem. A way to cross reference and keep you on course. IMO

    • I think that’s true. The problem, as I see it, is that a number of years into this Chase, the flood of hints, interpretations and readings has not yet produced the goods.

      I may be wrong, but I think the poem was originally meant to be standalone. The books may indeed contain useful hints, but you still need to be able to identify them and apply them to the poem. For me, it was “easier” to focus almost exclusively on the poem, and use the hints AFTER determining the solutions to each clue, so that I could double-check answers and not try to force the answers to fit a predetermined hypothesis. Of course, I don’t have the chest, so this may be bull.

  20. From my armchair, intense assertions of “just the poem” or “a road to nowhere” seems kinda vain based on current results. Sometimes you need to ponder on the arrowhead found in the dust

    • OS2, I can see how it might come across like that. I listed earlier the nine things that helped me (not just the poem), but as FF has said, all the info is in the poem – and it appears to be so for me.

      I accept that “road to nowhere” is a bit strong, but I really do believe that guesses based on how people think Forrest thinks will not give an entry to the place WWWH.

      My first attempt a few years ago was in the Hebgen Lake area – I believed that HOB was there. It was based on speculation rather than anything solid. In the last few weeks, the results produced by following the poem, strictly, has been a logical and “verifiable” progression to an end point which seems (and I stress “seems”) to hold huge potential. I so wish the snow would melt!

    • OS2,

      Pondering on the “arrowhead found in the dust.”

      Absolutely. ( Roads still seem to lead us home )

      The heart wants what the heart wants ~

  21. voxpops I agree with you – the answers I already know this tells me the answers are in the poem imo

  22. I’m wondering if maybe we have a FF quote wrong? Did he actually say the box resides at least 8 miles north of Santa Fe, New Mexico. There is a Santa Fe in Texas. A problem here then would be do the Rockies formally go that far south?

    • Chris-
      You should read the blog. That question has been answered and discussed many times already. If you take the time to read what is here you would find answers to this question and hundreds of others you have not yet thought to ask. Please do the appropriate research first, ask questions that have not been discussed later.

  23. It is up to the chaser to do as she, or he sees fit. There are many but many hints out there for seekers to interpret. If I were a “new” blogger I would have liked for someone to point me in the right direction. Here is my help. The hints that Mr. Fenn has given us point to the general area. The clues in the poem point to the exact location on the treasure. To solve the poem one has to get rid of prejudice and discrimination toward the clues. Erase all your pictures about the “place” because more than likely you will not find it where you think it is. Do not think, form your own opinion, or act impulsively. The poem is your leader. Let it lead the way. Of course,all of this is my opinion. RC.

  24. We added a short set of rules. Those who have been here awhile are aware of our interests. New folks may not be.

    Please read the rules and leave comments on the RULES page to help us refine the list, make them clearer and non-threatening.

    You can find the RULES page on the menu at the top of the page right under the header photo…look for the tab that reads “Rules”.

    • It depends..but if it’s about the poem than there is a discussion page for The Poem..if it’s about decoding the nine clues than the Nine Clues discussion page might be the right place..
      There is a lot of overlap and we can start a new discussion page if needed..

      • Hi Dal Thanks for the reply, I’m a big fan! I’ve been a four year (Thrill seeker) by the way are you convinced that it is not an encrypted code? I’m afraid that it is more than one lol. I have been on only one hunt and that was to the Library of Congress. I would love to know if you would like to share your findings that led you to Quake lake? I’m new to the blog and will be reading back through it but not sure if it has been discussed. Thanks again

  25. Good! It will give the “newbies” Some fresh informative winter reading, and us “old-timers” some re-freshing.
    Then, NOBODY’S comments will stink!
    It’s a joke people…fresh/refreshing…? S-i-g-h, forget it.
    Thanks, Dal.

  26. also another poem in TFTW i think that poem was rushed. i wonder if the same 9 clues r in there or did FF just have somthing else he wanted to say

  27. 311624225 they represent letters of each chapter when changed to numbers without S or O. maybe all you need is poem as long as u can decode it. most of all the clues i have heard r not based off of one key word. how could one.s path be direct. unless u had some very specific instuctions maybe ff has given us everything we need.

  28. or 31162424225 with S,s and O,s numbers based off of how many times a chapter begings with that letter. if that could be worked for a (solve) then TFTW poem would be (theoretically) easy,r think,n out loud, in silence lol

  29. i belive that just like (how to be a artist) ff did the same thing thinking about every lost treasure story . how to do it how much money. example beale papers?

  30. For those, like myself, who think Water High and FF’s special place is near a water fall (War For Me) and the fact that he had one belt in his backyard (SB 146), I found an interesting site for New Mexico water falls.

    Nice pictures and maps with personal trip directions. Organized west to east, north to south by map grid, complete with maps
    Can’t say any will relate to the poem or lead to FF’s treasure, but some beautiful spots to travel to.
    Hopefully the link will work, if not type it in the browser line.

    (PS I don’t think the one in FF’s backyard is on the list.)

    • Very cool link Not Obsessed! Just a thought but what if Forrest built or made a waterfall somewhere for us to find? Not listed on a normal map ??? But you could find it on a good map? All just IMO.

    • Yep, I really like Doug Scott’s link to waterfalls. I’ve visited it many times over the years, I figured everyone already knew about it so I never mentioned it. Oh well.

    • i thought, and have not discounted, “your effort will be worth the cold” meant going under/thru a waterfall- get wet, get cold.

      One of my favorite NM theorys’ end I found on that site. We never found the waterfall, as we went too early in spring… could not follow the creek with the snow.

      but what a resource that page is. just for exploring.

  31. Ok, based on the cheat sheet on this web site under -Fenn has said- He says people have been close to the treasure. I’m curious why we don’t have a data base of where the starting points have been. 1/People who have actually been out there on foot and looked can submit their starting points. 2/A more exact list would be anyone who emailed Fenn. 3/An even more exact list of starting points would be of those people who emailed Fenn and he actually replied. If someone missed something and they don’t even know it, why can’t others go behind them or with them again and recheck everything. Apparently those who have the starting point still couldn’t find the treasure. The numbers must be manageable – how many people can say they’ve emailed Fenn and actually knew of a solid starting point that they physically went out and attempted to follow the poem to find the treasure. I think a title on this page should include everyone’s starting point of people who’ve made physical attempts. I’ve been pouring over the poem and researched starting points that others have come up with as well…that doesn’t make them right or wrong. My trip will come when I’m 100% sure I’ve deciphered the poem.
    FYI…the above reminder should push everyone who’s ever been out in the field on the search for his treasure to recheck your steps, even if you aren’t willing to tell anyone where you’ve been. I personally would find it very satisfying to hear of someone having located it. Happy Hunting.

    • @Sam not all of the 60k plus or minus searchers out there are on this blog for one thing and the few who have emailed ff don’t know that they were close, it’s just that simple…..good thinking though….close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades! IMO. I’m sure a few do plan to return if and when they can get time off etc….there’s probably a small hand full of dedicated searchers all over the correct location, they know they are close, just a matter of time, IMO! I’ve been reading the older scrapbooks and vignettes, seems to me ff sometimes is giving out hints on how to zero in on the finale site with his closet, his bathroom with the 17th century antique against the south wall, things like that….IMO

    • Well Smantha, I think the closest you will get to your idea is reading through the many posted solutions and comments here. There have been some ingenious ideas and solutions presented in the over 100,000 comments we have. Lots of very smart imaginative people here.

      This discussion should probably be in Odd’s n End’s but lets go with it since your “starting points” would actually be the first two clues people have solved.

      There have been several people over the years with the same idea you have. They have even formed little super secret groups to share information with; you have to be approved by the leader to join one of these elite groups.

      The problem with mass data collection of this type is there is no way to verify the data collected. Did they really go on a search and then email their location to Fenn.

      There are the paranoid ones that don’t want any information shared and would send in erroneous information from fear that someone will figure it out. Odd how those same paranoid folks that don’t want any information shared are here scouring the blog looking for shared information while at the same time trying to shut down any real discussion about the clues. Gold fever does strange things to people.

      As far as not going on a trip until you’re 100% sure you have solved the poem; it is my opinion that can’t be done. You can’t be 100% sure without the chest in your hands.

      I think folks have gone way overboard with the confidence thing. Perhaps confidence is why folks have solved the first two clues and gone right past the others. They are blinded by confidence in there solution and not seeing what is right in front of them. Which leads me to believe the first two clues are rather straight forward and can be figured out from home; but at least some of the others will have to be figured out on location…….Just my opinion.

      • Goofy,

        You said it well when you said this, “Gold fever does strange things to people.” For myself, I am not expecting to find the chest – odds are way against it. If I do figure out the puzzle and am the first one to the hidey spot, I will be the most surprised of all. But I am sure having fun trying to figure out the conundrum that Mr. Fenn has left for us.

        I have tried to share insight as well as garner it in my time here on Dal’s blog.

        I am looking forward to my first venture into the wood this coming summer with my younger son.

        Good luck to all!

          • Thank you and yes I am interested.

            I am just now reading JUAN DOMINGUEZ DE MENDOZA TRAIL TO SAN CLEMENT 1683-1684

            A friend of mine wrote this book and he recommended that I not purchase it because “I seriously do not recommend buying it. It is specifically for research us on a specific subject and written to make money. I just published it to make it available for the couple of dozen people who might benefit from it.”

            He does not know the hearts, mind and knowledge among the Chasers!

            I am not recommending this as helpful in the chase, or for any other reason than to indicate that I am interested in history and geography, especially in the search areas. And perhaps some other history buffs may have an interest in this narrow study in time and with very little in the search area.

            I will be looking at the document link that you sent, thanks again.

      • Off topic: Goofy I see a great picture in the banner of a water fall I believe taken with a slow shutter speed. Is that one at Jenny Lake? I believe it is Hidden Falls that I speak of.

        Speaking of which, why is it that The Grand Teton Park is not discussed in the nine clues (heh heh, on topic now Dal). Has the park ever been considered a strong possibility or is it included in the Yellowstone area of searching?

      • Forrest said on the back of the map..”the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.”
        So how do you have certainty ,beforehand?

  32. Samantha, so you want the starting points of everyone’s search, because a few have gotten close to the treasure?
    How will you know you have the right searchers responding with the 200ft location search area?
    I see your logic and what you are trying to do…check the starting points to your solve and see which fits the closest, to find the treasure!
    I give you kudos for trying, but, imo, is that really a precise way? There are too many variables for error, imo, and you would be better off spending your time actually researching and finding a solve!
    I guess with that much gold, anything goes and if it’s your cup of tea, good luck.
    I’ve NEVER given out my search spots, knowing I could have been a “200ft searcher”, and have plans of returning to some of the ones that fits my solve the tightest.
    ☆ And finally, to sum up my opinionated statement…instead of broadcasting to the world where each searcher went, those searchers can recheck their journey, research the area and go widen their own search area, without handing it over for another searcher to take it out from under their nose! Why give up their hard work? I feel F’s statement about the 200′ was saying, “Hey, recheck your journey, EVERYONE!”
    Again, all my opinion!
    ¥Peace and good luck with that! ¥

    • Did you read the last paragraph encouraging people to recheck their own steps? I want them to find the treasure. I’m not suggesting that starting points be handed to just ME….this would help you as well. I’m suggesting they be given to everyone. Which puts everyone all at once on the same playing field.
      I hunt arrowheads on private land with my friends and we don’t keep secrets. We walk together, spaced out and make way for each other. What fun is a trip like that without someone or others to share it with. IMO greed and secrets will not be rewarded. I’d rather be part of 100 people to help find the chest then 1. And what is there to take out from under their nose when they didn’t see the forest thru the trees? I fear the people who have been close made their one time trip and have given up. Again, I hope it is found, my husband would like me to start problem solving other things around the house while he’s at work. LOL. Good luck.

      • Yea if a searcher new they where close why not give it another try. Of course hind sight is 20/20 or something like that. Anyway it depends on what your looking for in the chase a vacation the gold… who knows who will wind up with the loot.

        • Close? Who knows who’s close? Give it another try? We all know about hind sight being 20/20… Been there done that. But I will have to say I’ve learned much in my journeys thus far. Not just in TTOTC, but throughout my entire life. And I’m sure everyone has their own personal reason/s for becoming involved in TTOTC. Mine started as an attempt to try to repair something that was broken. It’s still broken. But who doesn’t like a vacation now and then? Take in the sights, relax, check out a scenic view… maybe even get to see a rainbow! It’s nice just to explore the possibilities… All intriguing IMO. Things could always change, I suppose. But gold? That’s mostly just a dream. A fantasy. And who doesn’t like to dream and fantasize once in a while?
          Happy Hunting Everyone.

  33. Samantha,
    I don’t think greed or secrets play into my pursuit of the chase. I am not going to disclose my Ideas to everyone and I don’t expect anyone to disclose theirs. As far as everyone on a level playing field that was already created by Mr. Fenn, just because there are some who feel they are behind because it has been hidden for at least five years now and they just found out about it doesn’t mean you have less of a chance. I don’t think if we all held hands and walked from east to west through the Rocky Mountains it could be found that way. This chest is going to be found by an individual that has a lot of different characteristics, they will be weak in some areas but very strong in others, but they will have the determination to keep trying after many failures. True Grit you might say. Everyone that is so focused on just finding the treasure has missed the journey in my opinion and the perspective of the intention. As Always IMO

  34. IMO: It’s the memories from the journey that will stand the best chance of remaining intact.

    In of it self, the preservation of the “perspective of the intention” …. as well.

    • Hmmm. The memory from the journey?… I wonder what that “perspective of intention” could possibly be that needs to be preserved. I’ve experienced many things. Some good and some nought. Are you referring to f’s intention… As in motive for crafting TTOTC?

    • WiseOne,

      Breath of fresh air you are, and in answer to your questions!:

      Actually, I am referring to what , IMHO….. F’s “intentions” were, and remain to be in his purpose of offering “TTOTC.” (Sure seems to be working, and on a very large scale at that!)

      I don’t have a clue as to what the finder will do after they take possession of it. (Whether or not they will keep it ‘as is’… or decide to disperse/separate its contents.)

      If someone told me that their journey/quest did not impact their live in some, invaluable way; than that would be difficult for me to understand.

      Treasures are defined in a great many ways. How we elect to preserve them are as well. Forrest Fenn reminds me of a human being whom has been both a recipient and a giver of treasures….untold ~.

      • Ha! “Breath of fresh air”… You must be intercepting the aroma of my Icebreakers Wintergreen Mint I have in my mouth.
        Thanks for your reply.

  35. JL I totally agree wit that last statement a bout just finding the treasure. I made a big mistake when I started out thinking that I could find the chest, pay off my debts and retire in a few years. LOL was I wrong. I have made on trip so far and had a great time despite not finding the chest. My grandson that went with me will never forget the journey we had. This is the whole point that FF had in mind. So many people have never been out of the city, much less out in the wilderness. There are so many wonders out there to find that you won’t see in a city.

    Anyone that is in this wanting to get rich quick is in the wrong game, go buy a lotto ticket instead. Its a lot cheaper and you have about the same odds, but you will miss a unforgettable experience. IMO.

    • I often wonder if I could just leave it if I do find it. Money drives our world to the point that we think if we just had this or that everything would be so much better or easier. If Mr. Fenn would have hidden a chest full of mementos that held little monetary value except to him they were priceless, how many people do you think would have excepted his challenge? It is such a noble deed but I am afraid very few would be motivated to the extent that they are, myself included. I have always wanted to see what was over the next hill so it was easy for me to except his challenge. If I find my way first I would have to sit for awhile and consider if I would want to be the one known for ending the chase. Every time I look I always have a pack to carry it out just in case, it also comes in handy for carrying waders. IMO

      • I’ve thought about that, too, JL. I have wondered about setting up a whole new Chase, if I were lucky enough to find it. But, like many, I could do a great deal with the contents of that chest, both for my own family and within the community. But I have no illusions about the problems that such a find could bring with it.

        Everyone’s different, and with their own particular difficulties to contend with, and dreams to fulfill, and I would never even consider suggesting how someone else should manage their good fortune. I just hope that finding Indulgence brings peace of mind rather than torment for the lucky individual.

        I think you’re right, that taking time out to consider the best way forward is a very sensible approach.

        • voxpops,
          It would be a life changing decision when you pick up that chest to carry it out. One of my biggest problems is that I like old things, to touch and feel them and wonder of their journey through time. If you let it known that you discovered it the government is going to want their share, there is no way to keep it all intact as far as I can determine. Granted some of the newer coins don’t have much history but they in themselves would not have enough value to keep the historical pieces in tact. Maybe it will just take a clever mind to figure it all out but that is not my idea of fun. There is also the aspect of nobody knows everything in the chest but Mr. Fenn and he’s not disclosing that for reasons of his own. I will approach it as I do with everything in life and cross that bridge if I get there. It never hurts to look ahead some though just in case. I have always tried to not let money influence my decisions.

  36. JL true, true…the playing field always has been equal. And knowing the poem is the answer, that will be my only focus from here on. Good luck all, Smile, Sam

  37. Regarding recent posts about motivation etc.

    I think there are many different motives for being on the Chase, and greed doesn’t really figure in it as far as I can see. Yes, many of us are driven in part by the allure of the treasure, but if greed was the driving force, there are far easier ways to satisfy that craving than spending thousands on travel and days of trekking in the mountains! For me, the biggest driver is meeting Forrest’s mental challenge and discovering whether I’ve got what it takes to achieve the final goal.

    As to Goofy’s comment about the first couple of clues. I have a different take as to why things have ground to a halt after that. I don’t think it’s about needing to be on the ground at that point in the search, but that there’s a fundamental shift in the way the clues work from there on. Again, just my opinion.

  38. I have a couple of points to raise
    The first concerning the word North .In wiki it says “The word north is related to the Old High German nord, both descending from the Proto-Indo-European unit ner-, meaning “down” (or “under”)”.Furthermore in mesoamerica usage it also means “up”.So could there be a possibility that the “canyon down” ,”look quickly down” ,and “up your creek” have a northern directional context?. The thing becomes confusing as we are not sure whether we interpret the poem on a map with the usual directions of north south or whether we imagine ourselves on the ground to follow the poem.The two contexts are somewhat different as “down” also is south in normal usage .Till now I assumed canyon down as south and” look quickly ” down as ” look below”, but this northern terminology has triggered me to think again for possibilities.

    The other issue is “put in ” may refer a navigational advise in a water way as in harbours ,,,suggesting traversing on the water ,but on the other hand
    “No paddle up your creek” suggest not to travel on the water,,hence what does “put in” mean? Can it mean just “enter this point across the water way” say to begin hiking?


    • Tintin, the Gallatin River provides an excellent example of utililuzing both: the older meaning ‘north’ and ‘down’ as in downstream. The freestone Gally runs downstream northward from its headwaters deep in Yellowstone back country thru Gallatin Canyon where it truly is no place for the meek. It was named by Lewis and Clark for the secretary of the treasury under Jefferson’s administration.
      Also worthy of note, the Gallatin is an aberration on forrest’s map contained in TFTW. Look closely, it’s the only major river not correctly shaded blue.

  39. TT Just because you can’t paddle up doesn’t mean you can’t paddle down. Consider “put in” a river instead of a harbor. White water (no place for meek) would take you down the canyon but you couldn’t go back up due to fast water. Just IMO

    • If you consider ‘Put in’ as white water entrance, and you can’t paddle up the current… then would this make stanza 3 all hints with one clue?

      …To put in [ at spot of hoB ] a water craft in such a place is no place for the meek, and one needs to reach a point in the direction of the flow of the fast current near another area [ maybe where the waters calm ]. no paddling needed, and JHLAWH is a description of white water…

      Now comes the dilemma for me… how are we counting clues? this sounds like one clues with at least for hints… with the clue being the place you leave the water.

      The same can be said for stanza two, as the first sentence can be describing a place and an action, which reveals a clue.
      Here the thing… are we to see a clue up front or know it is a clue at the time?
      Or is the poem all hints that in the end, reveals 9 clues?

      Some may say this is semantics, yet imo it is a necessary step in how to read the poem properly.

      • I have often thought of it the same way as in your first paragraph. However not sure about the current idea, maybe? IMO….I keep going back to a child could get it.
        Walk to it. He said. That “put in” is a boating-plane term.
        Maybe you drive cause it is too far to walk. Who Knows?
        The Shadow……

        Lou Lee Belle, Chased by bears and lived to tell the tale. Now living in Whoville. Mining for treasure.

        • ‘Put in’ is a place to put your boat in the river, but also a ‘get-out’ term if you are already traveling by watercraft. So if you ‘put in’ at WWH, you might also ‘put in’ (get out) at HOB.

      • Seeker –

        You have probably heard me say this before – Why are you counting clues? Oh I know – you heard NINE clues…… so this must be true. Recently, you also heard ELEVEN clues. Did you also hear FF say not to believe ANTHING other than the poem. (paraphrased) So, does that mean we are not to believe FF? I don’t know. All I know is counting clues at the beginning of a solve will not get you very far and creates more of a dilemma than it ever could solve. I really think there are games to be played along the way – and those games are going to remove a few clues. So, I guess you know by now, I am not a fan of clue counting – think it is useless. draws one down the wrong path and a perfect waste of time.

        • LOL, Thank You Inthechaseto.

          For a while when I started the poem I was looking for clues… I think most if not all do. Like you, I see a fault in this method as it makes one create a clue, and not so much understand what is a clue.
          Now imo I lean towards 9 sentences 9 clues in the full scale of the poem. Fenn stated:
          “There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”

          I think the poem reads as such [ right or wrong ] as the poem is full of hints and clues are revealed from those. When I read the poem this way I see more than just lines. I see a flow to the poem that leads me to understanding the poem. Again right or wrong, this seems to me a much better avenue than stepping out points. I know that is not a popular way of seeing it… yet the step by step method so far has fail miserably.

          Those that had the first two clues seem to do just that, stepping without understanding.

          CC: imo

          • By Gosh Seeker –

            You Got it.

            “There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.” ff

            This quote above is probably one of the most important things he said. Find the hints in the book – (just before the poem) IMO – and you can find the TC. Why ?

            Because then he said punctuation is important. So if we look in the book – at the punctuation right above the poem – what do you see………….

          • Inthechase,

            I just put the same quote below to another post… At least someone thinks like me.

            Ummm, not saying that is a good thing, just nice to know I won’t be “alone in there” with padded walls and a brand new jacket.

        • Imo the nine clues are not as important as the poem and here is the my reasoning behind that. Fenn likes to speak the truth but not the hole truth. “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure: “ff . We know this statment is true but let me propose another that may or may not be ture. So I wrote a poem containing eleven clues that if not followed percisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure. It all seems to be in the precise wording of what Fenn has said. To me the clues are a distaction aswell as no mention of nine clues in TFTW, So is it truly important to know the nine clues in the poem to find the treasure? No, what is important is to understand the poem and study it as much as possible. And if you do find nine clues in the poem be sure to follow them precisely!

          • Count,

            You mentioned Rainbow in the intro to the poem. I’ll share this, and others may already know it. I found a description of rainbow that “may” indicate a couple of things. 1. being ” where dreams and fantasies alike go to play” rainbow meaning: dreams. 2. the term to describe the RM’s arch a section of land dividing the east to the west.

            Helpful? maybe, maybe not. Still interesting though.

            Food for thought.

          • Seeker,

            I wish I could in my searching find some sort of anything pointing me to the continental divide. I’ve read your armchair search mind of an abstact thinker and it has a lot to do with the CD. But the rocky mountains is just one big CD. Its hard for me to believe that Fenn would use the CD as a clue in the poem. If Fenn has used it there has to be something else in the poem that tells you a precise place on the CD, if I recall correctlly you used 49 parallel(but I don’t remmeber why). I know we tend to feed off of others ideas so I would like to share one of mine with you and it may help with the CD idea. I’ve come to strongely believe that one of the clues is a boundary line and maybe if the CD is clue in the poem then just maybe its where the CD meets a boundary line(like county line, nat. forest line, ext.) One of the reason I think this way is becasue Fenn speaks highly of having a good map. What do you think?

          • Count,
            In one of my solves I end up precisely on the boundary line between Fed and Native American Lands.
            RMs www halt, as in warm air currents containing moisture get wrung out at high elevations, especially at the RMs

          • uken2it,

            What you are dicribing sounds like the el nino effect, rocky mountains gets hammered by snow with this effect. Warm water is heated in the pacific turned to clouds then dumps snow on the mountains one of things they thought in class when I first moved to the rockies. This year there calling for a hugh el nino. Heres a fact for everyone all rain starts as snow in the atmosphare.

          • Hi Count –

            You are probably right about the RM’s –

            But not all rain starts off as snowflakes. In the tropical regions the clouds do not get as high, and as such are free from ice, they are “warm clouds”. The rain here is produced by Langmuir’s Chain Reaction, or more commonly the collission and coalescence process.
            The water droplets collide and coalesce due to atmospheric turbulence and convection.

          • Count,
            I gave an example of the CD not only in that post [ armchair ] But to Vox in a post lower here.

            The reason I think you may not see it as a clue is, it’s not specific enough for you as a single smaller location. I would ask, why would it have to be? Fenn said not all the places the clues refer to were around when he was a kid. So it is possible that at least one clue is a not a place at all? Depending on what you consider a “place”.

            I consider the CD as a place, just a large one. I could argue the Rocky Mountains are a place as well… they do stand alone even though we have given smaller areas different names, it’s all the RM region. Doesn’t matter to me if they were called “Tall long dirt mounts”. You get my point.

            I see “no place for the meek” as the back bone of the RM’s which in-turn is the CD. This is one of the processes that changes the range, as well as erosion, and why it will be more difficult to find the chest 3009 years from now. And if you use the RM’s as a clue or hint, then I think one way of getting to the states is to put in below the 1/2 way point. This is the big picture as I see it. More an understanding, than a travel. Still with places / location… just not pin pointed has most hope they are.

            But do they need to be? the only true point is where the just lays in wait… how one gets there is a whole different animal. One thing you won’t find in my solves is names that can be changed, [ RM’s is just a large range, call it what you will ] roads detoured or removed, parking lots gone, trees that can burn etc. My thoughts are long term. I just can’t think anyway else the poem could work.

            “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

            If the poem give all of us the “same opportunity”, and fenn wanted to “influence future generations”… I feel the clues / poem reflect that. I can’t see how to read the poem as modern day pinpoint step by step, and all I need to do is find “The water fall ” and go below “Brown Mountain” to get to some scary as hell place… That doesn’t work for me. I wish it did… it might be easier that way.

          • Uken, the Count,

            You both seem to be describing the “rain shadow” affect on the lee side of the mountain. I’m sure you have heard of it… if not, it is something to learn and tuck away for a rainy day. Great for parties conversation as well… But for some reason i’m never invited back…

      • I tend to think “put in ” as more of relating to a start of a hiking trek by the side of a river or creek rather than rafting or ranking.IMO.
        If so are the canyons and gorges in the rockies easy to hike down in the gorge across the rivers? I don’t mean the hiking trails from rim of canyon to rivers in the gorge.I mean once you are in the gorge is it “hikable” by the sides of the river?Those folks who had boots on the ground can tell us.IMO


  40. Searchers just do not listen. The only clue people should be trying to decipher is the first clue. Then, and only then, the other clues matter. Seekers think because they do not understand the poem it is better to just go search and try their luck. I guess that’s okay if you have the time, and money to do it, but for someone like me it is better to be sure, than to go in there blindly. But how can somebody be sure about deciphering clues in a poem that seems impossible to crack? Well first of all, if you think it is impossible, or possible you are right. It is your positive attitude towards the poem that will give you and edge on other people that think it is impossible to solve. Believe me when I tell you whenever you solve the poem you are going to say, ERUREKA! I DID IT, I DID IT! It is my opinion. RC.

      • Vox , If I remember right you are in UK, what part? Are you the one who has been over a few times?

        • Yiga, I’m not in the UK, but I am from there, originally. Not quite old enough to have arrived on the Mayflower, but some days it feels like it. 🙂

          • Lol…reminds me of an old WWWH…April Showers bring Mayflowers solve. It’s funny how there’s even canyon/trails etc. that follow the story…have you looked at the “New World” trail? It caught my eye at one point when thinking about that ship and ole Chris Colombus the CC lol

          • I’d not heard of the New World Trail before. Is that NM? A quick Google search just now brought up a New World Gulch Trail in MT, but that’s all I saw at a glance.

    • RC,

      Do you have the correct solve? I mean, I would like to “believe” you, yet so far many have the “first two” clue correct and none of them know it. Now some have as many as the first four clues… so far that doesn’t seem to help either.

      Could it be that, for example; the question in stanza 5 hints to the first clue or the first clue is not “begin it where” or even in the the first line of the poem.

      You said “Searchers just do not listen.” Personally I think that’s a slap in the face to those who have been at the first two clues…even if they didn’t know, just my opinion, as they got there somehow. Does the first clue appear to a searcher in the first stanza, and maybe the last stanza gives a reason or understanding why it is important? Where or how do you draw a line to understanding the first clue that we all seem to be misunderstanding?

      You said: ” The only clue people should be trying to decipher is the first clue. Then, and only then, the other clues matter.”

      Are you sure? Can you explain how you will find / know /understand the first clue? Inquiring minds would like to know. Because just saying it doesn’t mean notta, unless you can back it up with something…

      • I will let RC speak for himself, but I’d like to add something here – as usual, just an opinion.

        Because of the way the clues are constructed, I believe they have been designed to avoid people being able to jump in half way – or even right at the end – to find the treasure without going through the whole process (no shortcuts). As a result, without nailing the first clue, none of it makes any sense.

        If I have understood the poem correctly (IF!), the clues build into a giant picture or framework where each successive clue depends on the preceding ones for understanding. However, because of the nature of the second clue, it provides adequate confirmation of the first, so that it should be possible to know if you’re on the right track. This is why, in my opinion, people have been able to arrive at the first two locations, whether they understood it or not.

        Thereafter, it really does depend on revealing the underlying architecture.

          • For example “From there it’s no place for the meek” will mean absolutely nothing unless you know what went before. You can’t just guess at that clue and then hope to find the rest. IMO.

            As another example, a number of people have considered that Leadville contains the HOB (Molly Brown), and tried to extrapolate from there. Even if it were the correct HOB (not, IMO), you wouldn’t know it, because the poem is designed as a whole as much as it is a collection of parts. Remove one support and it all comes crashing down.

        • The underlying architecture, in my opinion, would be the foundation or “bottom” of the poem and its four cornerstones. Last line or bottom may provide correct latitude or a major component of location.

          When following f’s advice to “read the poem “over and over and over and over”… I count four times and personally believe you must read or decipher the poem 4 different directions: top down, forward, backward, and bottom up, in addition to numerically and word-slide in a grid.

          Hope those methods help someone else. I would enjoy seeing someone find it during Forrest’s journey on earth.

        • voxpops,

          All well and good. Fenn has stated without the first clue you might as well stay home… So I’ll ask you that same question. Where or how do you draw a line to understanding the first clue that we all seem to be misunderstanding?

          Does the first clue come from the poem? the book? an outside source? another part of the poem? an aberration? It is always dumbfounding and confusing for me when a searcher post such comments and doesn’t give reasoning for it.

          Allow me to give my aspects to the reading of the poem. I think the poem is an overall understanding and not a step by step or point by point travel. Once you understand the poem the starting point seems to be the ending point as well. So I’ll throw my thoughts out here, not only for discussion but in hope you will provide more in your comment as well.

          We didn’t know the RM’s at the start of this. I think fenn wanted us to understand this, and why he stated “In the mountains north of SF” later he gave us the RM’s. is this important to know? I believe it is. I can read the poem as beginning of the RM range and the creation of it by the erosion of the Liquid waters that take and make the canyons down, not far but over time too far to walk… this maybe too metaphorical for some, yet does make perfect sense. To put in is an area that cuts the range in 1/2 which can be the hinting or reason for the semi colon. No place for the meek might be the CD, [ a none human trail ].

          You may say, this is all well and good Seeker, but where is the first clue? Well the first clue is the place the chest lays in wait, would be my answer[s]. The most important clue, the one that needs most dwelling on, if you know where to start, etc. I’m not going to hand that out, but I least I gave a process [ limited ] of how I think the poem gets one there.

          Yes, fenn has repeatedly stated: the first clue importance, without it you have notta… How to you get to your first clue? and why? No need to full disclosure, just a process of something more than Just repeating what fenn has told us all.

          • Sorry, Seeker, you’re on you’re own on that score. I at least want the chance of a slap-up crow banquet without having to fight for the wishbone with gate crashers!

            Just watching that weather forecast and waiting…

          • Vox, interesting dialog, Have you been to your location before or this will be the first time? Just curious. I think you said or maybe it was RC that things just clicked a few weeks ago.

          • No, I have not been to this location before. I have been to places “connected” with it, but it was indeed a few weeks ago that things seemed to click into place. Elements of previous searches feed into this location, but this is the first time I feel confident about having the whole thing in place. Again, until I’ve been, this is all total conjecture.

          • Let’s see, vox, the Arctic Circle is also called Treeline. I’m guessing that has something to do with your starting point, since that is your WWWH. Correct?

          • Sorry, Spoon, until I’ve been out to my location, I’m taking my bat, ball and marbles away to sulk in the corner. 😉 I’ve tried to give as many pointers as I can without giving the game away. Y’all have to work it out on your own now.

            And, of course, it’s just as likely that I’m wrong, anyway.

      • Hi Seeker,

        “ far many have the “first two” clue correct and none of them know it…”

        I just want to point out that the last time Mr. Fenn said that maybe somebody has four clues.. he never qualified that with “..and didn’t know it…”

        • Hey Muset,

          Fenn did qualify that no one knew they had the first two clues correct. This can be found under Forrest gets mail section.

          As for the recent four clues… No comment that I know of stated that or those searches didn’t know. Yet it seems something is not known, as if the four clues are known, that’s close to half the poem.
          .. How hard are the last five clues?

          Wasn’t it supposed to get easier? LoL.

          Here’s the thing… Statements from fenn go back years, and it hard to tell if those are completely accurate now. Although at the time… The first two clues were not known by the searches. Who’s to say about the four clues comment. I can only use logic as to say… If to date searchers still don’t know the first two clues… Just been there by aberrations. Then it would hold true for the four as well. IMO.

          • Hi seeker. I enjoy reading ur thoughts. I believe it does get progressively easier as you go, with each step forward confirming the last. However, as has been mentioned, all the confidence in the world can’t help if you don’t go in focused. I have made that mistake more times than I care to admit. It’s just so awesome out there. But I firmly believe, if you make a key for the poem, and apply accordingly, with all the switchbacks et al, it will be difficult to solve, but not impossible. I have decided to review and revise over the winter, and when the snow melts, test my “ending”. 🙂

          • JD,

            Here’s my problem with “a key”. Not unlike A.Briggs theory that uses many key words in a cipher.
            What fenn stated was “a word that is key”.
            I don’t look at ciphers at all… main reason I suck at them. Yet if one could discover a word that is ‘Important’ [ a word that is key ], I can only see it used two ways.

            1. When understood how fenn sees / uses / meant the word to be understood, it show us the poem in a different light. Opens the poem to be read the way fenn intended.

            2. “word that is key” is just that, A word to be ‘used’… this gives me pause as it would need to be an unlocking tool for the poem. Which in my mind would be more a game solve, than an understanding. That also means there would need to be instructions. Is that the hear me all and listen good part? The answers he knows and done it long and tiresome?

            There are 160ish words in the poem [ some are repeated, other are combined ]
            And if there are instructions [ and I can see some very clearly, more than most would ] The problem still falls to the poem now becomes a game challenge. So is the poem designed [ architecturally ] as a game?

            Different methods have been use to solve the poem, some are: step by step w/ botg, point to point on a map, a cipher, a journey of another, a layered solution, a riddle, a game, a puzzle, a narration of the poem, etc. etc. etc.

            Regardless of your method of choice, we have been told to go back to the poem… and the first clue seems to be critical to understand… even though some have actually been at the first clue[s]. No one seems to get the reason why! Fenn stated that those who were there may have gotten there by aberrations [ something different “` fenn’s definition“`

            Now we have four clues that apparently some have solved… There have been a lot of folks who claim they solved the poem, and truly feel they have. And please understand I’m not knocking them for there efforts or confidence when I ask this… Are they all not paying attention, or are they ignorant to understanding the poem? [ ignorance, is lack of knowledge or information ].

            We are missing something, something that seems to be very important to solving the poem, whether that is in the poem or in the field I don’t know…

            Is it a meaning? and understanding? a word? something in the field? all of the above… So much for the KiSS method, this poem is not ~K I Simple S~ what so ever.

    • Yes and the 7th or 70th time you utter eureka and start celebrating in advance of even making the trip you learn to become a little more circumspect. Everything is so easy when all of the detail you have access to is the books and maps. The human mind can create a very convincing story from that available evidence. When you get out there and there are literally a thousand places in a single line of sight where it could reasonably be hidden, things get real.

      • It’s a great point, threerocks. The topography never looks the same on the ground as it does on a map or a satellite view. Add to that the fact that the chest is very small and Fenn hid the thing so that no one would stumble upon it. To me that means exacting detail is required in the solution. It’s never quite so easy when you’re there on the ground in person. You might be able to cover a large field or hillside in an hour or so, but if the chest is underground, what have you really accomplished?

        • Whatever happened to precisely?

          I sure hope that the final solution leads to a 12″ square spot. Whether in a field, hillside,buried or hidden… Is that what the poem is supposed to accomplish?

        • I agree with this. It’s a mistake I’ve made before. I believe you need to have your precise spot located (within a few feet) before setting out. It’s also why I don’t subscribe to the view that you need to be on the ground before determining your final destination. This time, for me, the target area is extremely well defined.

          • I;m in trouble then cause my target search area is roughly 700′ long and 120′ wide with a slightly downward slope. lol

          • Been there, done that myself, vp. And then I search my perfect spot and find out it’s not exactly where I thought it would be. So I search around for awhile aimlessly, no longer sure what I’m looking for, until I realize that it’s not going to happen. I wonder, am I just not seeing it, or am I in completely the wrong place? And when I head back home everyone says, “Why didn’t you stay longer and keep searching?”

          • Ha! I recognize that scenario intimately. People who haven’t been on the ground don’t realize how daunting it is to look around and be faced with mile after mile of rocks, rivers, woodland or desert. If it’s not where you first thought the chest was, you just don’t know where to begin.

            On the couple of occasions my wife’s been with me, she said that there had to be something that was clearly identifiable as the spot. I took that to heart more recently.

          • Spoon,
            If that happens to me after I’ve search the 2 spots I’ve picked out I plan on fishing the rest of the day to distract myself if I don’t find it. 1st spot is specific because I can see what I believe to be the blaze, 2nd spot I’d have to find a blaze there because Google maps can’t see through trees 🙂 I at least hope to catch some rainbow and brown trout 🙂

          • Spoon/book, I totally agree. It’s all about walking that fine line between believe you can find it and being grounded enough in the realities of the matter to stay focused and enjoy ones surroundings during an unsuccessful trip.

          • 3rocks started a nice little discussion here – thanks, 3rocks.

            Bookworm – a couple of my friends will only go on a search trip with me if we go fishing as part of the trip. As I recall that’s only worked out once.

            vp – I don’t necessarily agree with your wife on this one. I don’t think he would choose a place that was on a map and I don’t think he’d choose a place that would stand out in its environment. Too many people could be drawn to those locations inadvertently and he wants the finder to have solved his riddle. But by the same token, it is a place he had in mind for a long time, so somehow or other he knew it was there.

  41. Maybe, the few who have figured out the first few clues, started at a waterfall going down into a canyon…and didn’t realize they got it right, as f indicated. They just threw a dart, took a pretty drive down the falls/canyon road and let F know that they had a nice vacation with no Indulgence.
    And I thought F said in his Moby interview, he knew of no other way but one into the treasure location. And, he drove, that means no boat. “Put in” could be where he PARKED below the HOB, after taking a road down the canyon, making “it” a road.
    Stanza 5, may even give the road a letter. “Why (Y) is it that I must go…” Road Y. My grandparents lived on “Y” road near Windsor, MO.
    All I know, is that it’s ALL my opinion.
    Some of those revelations came from conversations with my nieces and nephews during Thanksgiving! The one word they said the most was WHY!
    “Why” did he say that?
    “Why tarry scant?”
    “Why look quickly?”
    “Why will you be cold?”…you get the point!
    Maybe if all the “WHYs” are answered, you are “WISE”!
    ¥Peace ¥

    • Donna,

      Why, Oh Why, Would put in be where he parked? All that means is he drove to the place to hide the chest. Lets say the chest is near W. Yellowstone… would anyone living there ” need ” to drive. I would have a hard time thinking that an actual clue in the poem is telling us we need a car to solve the poem. I dare say a 9 or 15 year old would do so. what about 10,000 years from not and no automobiles, maybe they went by way of the dinosaurs 100 years from now and the last 9,900 car are unknown, no parking lots to park at. No Y in any kind of road…

      Sure, I’m trying to have a little fun with ya. Yet if fenn was thinking about the future in anyway shape or form, Why? a car, parking lot, fork in a road, as clues. I also believe when fenn meant there’s no other way… he was talking about how “we” needed to solve “the poem” to find the chest. Like he said, it would be a miracle for someone to just go looking for the blaze by driving around…
      “I mean, there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues, but you can’t start in the middle of the poem and find the treasure, I don’t think, I mean, it would be a miracle if someone did.”

      • Yeah, Seeker, I see your point. I guess the few that were within 200ft of the treasure just floated on down passed it, in their canyon, and heaven help them if they did find it. Paddling back up that canyon with a 40lb treasure would be heck!
        F drove his car, made 2 trips, walked back to it laughing. A car he took, and so shall i.
        Maybe you can look for it a hundred yrs from now, in your hover car!
        Good luck, it’s all in fun!

        • I could really go for a hover car. But I can’t even afford a hover-board. All I’m saying is fenn knows this area like the back of his hand. Whatever way he went, doesn’t mean that is the way the poem leads us.

          That all depends on how you see the poem as well… a small 1-10 mile area [ compared to the search area of four states ] or a larger area of 100 miles. I can see both ways with reading the poem… I can also see the poem in a very scant of an area as well, one location.

          There is another option as well… the one location is the location and we need to physically designed the blaze from the meanings in the poem, that will point to the chest. Fenn said it would not be feasible to remove the blaze. One thought is look quickly down as an action do something… could there be something there that we need to align or even make work / use of?

          • I think, the blaze IS mentioned in the poem. I defined all the words and found it. I found the blaze isn’t something you can remove (well, I guess you could if you were malicious), and something that will stand the test of tme. I think his quickly means the chest is close, very close, to the blaze.
            I like the sun alignment theory, but, that may only work during a certain hour, day or season. Is that why F is so certain the chest will be hidden for so long, because of a short window of opportunity, like the window his mom looked out of, waiting for the postman, and his ball of string, or “clew” disappeared and no one knew how it did? Hum…

          • Call me crazy, but I think the Blaze is a “lazy B” on its side. Seriously, a B shaped double hill with a v shape dry gulch down the middle. B for bubba, also looks like m and w to honor father and brother.

        • Maybe no paddle up your creek means you are floating as you say down the river , you see it, but can’t stop, becasue you cant paddle up current…..

          • lazy b, lazy7. The “b” in blaze not capitalized, so, lazy “b”. Lazy “7′ from the word “the”. Looks like a 97. “b” on top, “7”under the “b”. Coincides with “marvel gaze”, think Andrew Marvell, Upon Appleton House. Or The Garden.


    A producer from Vox Media, the folks who bring you SB Nation, The Verge, Polygon, Re/code, Eater, Curbed, and Racked…
    is interested in interviewing searchers in Santa Fe. She has not committed to a time frame yet but says she is moving fast. If you hang near Santa Fe and would like to contribute to her story, email me at:
    dal at lummifilm dot com
    and I’ll put you in touch..

  43. Has anyone tried WWWH as a train stop? Steam powered trains (obviously warm water) stop at places called “water stops” to fill up?–Admittedly, I have not read these comments so if someone has tried this line of thinking, I would love to hear about it!

    • Yes, for sure. I no longer think that is correct, but I think it fits pretty well if you have 8 more clues to go with it..

    • Yes, I put some time into researching and searching a few steam train areas. There are a couple that fit nicely. I really enjoyed searching those areas. They always have lots of historical information and who doesn’t like a good train ride. Some even serve pineapple and coconut pies.

    • Yep – My favorite was the Silverton to Durango. It is the only train that has flag stops, so I figured maybe one of those was the put in. Well, since a SB mentioned ‘Leroy”, and Leroy was from Chicago, I figured the flag stop I needed must be the one at the Chicago Basin trail crossing.

      Leroy Brown from the South side of Chicago. South is down (below). BTW, Chicago is also on the 42nd Parallel – another story though.

      Yes – this was one of my primitive solves way back when.

      Don’t forget about the TolTec that runs right along the gorge on the Colorado/NM border.

      Scott W

      • By the way – looking for treasure or not, you really need to ride the train to Durango if you are in the area.

        If you are in to hiking, get off at one of the flag-stops and camp out for the night. You can pick up the train the next day (or two).

        Scott W

  44. hello i have found three words in the poem that are together if you twist the peom a lil the words are HISTORY TOLD THE

    • Does that tell you anything useful? I think you’re on the right track but you need to aim higher to nail a good one.

  45. Just a little info I meant to share when someone posted about buying a drone to help look for the treasure. A good idea to get a good birds eye view but illegal in YSNP. Not sure of other parks but best to check the local officials of the area before you get an expensive tool confiscated by officials.

  46. Most think warm waters halt in Yellowstone park. I think halt means to completey stop…but it doesn’t also have to be contained…does it?

    • Well, it says they (warm waters) halt and take it in the canyon down. So where does warm waters halt something and then take it in the canyon down?

      Just another way of reading that stanza.

      Scott W

  47. YES, IMO If warm waters are moving then comes to a stop, rather than turning from hot to cold, I think it would have to be contained. If it goes into the ground and disappears, it is still moving somewhere ( sinks canyon for example). A river running into a lake or pond slows downs but there are still currents within the pond as long as more water is coming in. I think that a geyser could be one example of hot water moving then stopping, but is is still flowing back into the thermal system or a river or pond, so did it really stop. All a mater of opinions or guesses until we know what FF means by “halt”.

    • Why can’t we read this stanza as “The Warm Waters halt it” period. “Then the warm waters take it in the canyon down”. period. ?

      Begin it where warm waters halt AND take it in the canyon down.

      The warm waters do two things in this approach. They halt it and they take it.

      Scott W

      • Scott…My belief is because there are no ‘periods’ where you suggest and ‘warm waters’ perform no action… Punctuation is important IMO…

        “Don’t mess with my poem”…f

        It is ‘WHERE they HALT’ that matters…Even more important perhaps, what is the ‘it’ we are to ‘begin’ and ‘take’?…

        We are to ‘begin “it” ‘ somewhere AND ‘take “it” ‘ somewhere…

        These two lines appear more as instructions rather than directions…

        Add these to “Not far, but too far to walk.”…

        Now we have three lines 5 – 7 in one complete sentence which, when taken together, appear to be giving instructions to ‘begin’ AND ‘take’ an ‘it’ somewhere only a short distance ‘not far’, BUT somewhere we cannot walk?…

        The chest?…Our journey?…A stream?…A canyon?…Don’t believe so…


        Not to mention ‘warm waters’ or ‘WHERE warm waters HALT’…Sounds like a starting point, no?…

        “There are many places where warm waters halt in the Rockies”…f

        There must be only one place WWWH in the poem, else no one will ever find that starting point…

        “Everything you need to locate the treasure is in the poem”…f

        Easy peasy!…NOT!…

        But, according to f, we must stay within the poem…

        “You will ignore the poem at your own peril”…f

        He keeps repeating himself for a reason…

        Stay within the poem…Everything must be in there, just well hidden and/or disguised as ‘”wiles of nature and circumstance”…So “thread a tract through” the poem…

        “All that will be needed are the clues, some resolve, a little imagination,…. Anyone can get lucky. But it takes mettle enough to strike the trail, and enough confidence in a maverick….” – f

        Of all the ideas expounded in 6 years, I can find no reasoning more logical than this…

        I find only one possibility where all the above is true…And it is in the poem…

        IMO of course………Sam

        • Sam,

          You wrote –
          “My belief is because there are no ‘periods’ where you suggest and ‘warm waters’ perform no action… Punctuation is important IMO…”

          But there is a huge “AND”.

          Begin it where the wind blows and rustles them to the ground.

          The above describes two things that the wind does. The wind blows (period). and – the wind rustles them to the ground (period).

          “them” would be the leaves on a tree.

          So the wind blows the leaves and the wind rustles the leaves off their twigs so they fall to the ground.

          Not the greatest example, but I wanted to show that the wind does two things, and there is an object that is affected (them).

          Why can’t “it” in stanza two be an object that is acted upon?

          You wrote:
          “There are many places where warm waters halt in the Rockies”…f

          There must be only one place WWWH in the poem, else no one will ever find that starting point…

          I disagree. There are many WWWH in the search area. However! There is only on place where warm waters halt IT AND take IT in the canyon down.

          I’ve posted many ideas on this blog. Not all can be correct, and most likely none are.

          Sometimes, I ask questions such as the one we are discussing. To me, the word “and” can be a very important word when it comes to the interpretation of any sentence.

          Scott W

  48. All imo…
    Looking at WWWH from a different angle.
    It could be going backwards. Picture a river, 9,000-10,000 ft up in the mountains, rambling down to a drop/falls, continuing thru a canyon that was made BY that very same water movement. The water exits the shadowed canyon into a sunlit glade/meadow, to continue its curving course through the valley.

    Stay with me now…wwwh is actually the beginning of the meandering river! “Halt” is an action word, but doesnt mean beginning or end. The cold water halts at the end of the valley AND so does the warm water! It is actually the ww’s birth, and it is halted from the cold water at the beginning. The ww starts when the sun hits it. Some say it halts, so it has to be the end…but which end? Who says it’s not halting at the beginning? F says, “Begin it where…” So you start where the ww halts…could be as it comes OUT of a canyon!
    I used to picture a river, warmed, ending at a fall into a canyon down. But it works this way too!
    Going into the canyon, down not too far, put in below the hob. You are stopped by heavy loads and water high, the falls that creates the river!
    …At the end of our explorations, we find the beginning.
    Just a new angle to look at!
    ¥Peace ¥

    • Donna,

      I posted a partial solve a while back that involved the same concept. The idea was that WWWH might be a cirque and the canyon that is too far to walk might be Ten Sleep canyon (because the distance is measured in “sleeps”, not miles, yards, feet, etc.).

      Scott W.

  49. Donna M

    I like it except going into the canyon you’d be going up canyon instead of down canyon (Take it in the canyon down). Unless it’s a southern direction, then I can see it working.

    • Bookworm, remember, there is a comma after the word canyon, then down. So it reads…
      Take it in the canyon, down not far…
      Listen to F recite it. Imo it is saying go in the canyon, don’t go to far, but too far to walk. I see nothing in his stanza that says down or south…
      Example: “Go down to the store and get me a Dr. Pepper.” That doesn’t mean go south, it’s just down the street from where you are at. Guess it’s Texan lingo. F is a Texan!

  50. Scott, Many years ago: Warm Waters were used to stop (halt) the coke processing. (cold water was used, but it turned warm when it came in contact with the coke ovens.) And then these same waters, or rivers, were used to transport the coke (on a boat) down a canyon to the customers. I have considered using old, old coke ovens for my WWWH.

    There are some mining operations that used water in a similar manner. I can’t remember which mineral uses water like this. I believe it’s not gold or silver – I believe it’s one of those minerals that I’ve never hear of.

    Does that make sense?

    • I like it!

      So let’s think about this for a minute. I might use water in a sluice to separate gold from the load (raw material). The water then takes the gold flakes down the sluice where the gold halts on the fins/ridges.

      I’m not suggesting the above is correct, but you sparked an idea.

      Scott W.

  51. Correction, Bookworm, I was wrong, it does have the (,) after down. So working with “down in the canyon” I still stick with my opinion as a term and not direction. I fell it’s telling me to go into the canyon, be it N, S, E, or W.

  52. New here, I’ve been watching for a while.

    Could WWWH be from 500,000 years ago when the warm water of the Gulf of Mexico extended to the areas in Wyoming?

    And, could the take in the canyon down, be the great Basin formed with the Rockies?

    Remember Fenn’s reference to geography.

    Just looking for some thoughts.


    • Jim-
      Folks have tossed that idea out before…
      That’s roughly the eastern front of the Rockies…but where exactly on that old shoreline would it be? It’s kind of like saying it’s on the Continental Divide…or on the Canada/USA border…all are possible…
      But those are not exactly precise locations from which a person can start…

      More refinement needs to be accomplished before such an extensive area can serve as WWWH…in my opinion.

  53. The Torg and Elliot Show on WLVQ radio in Columbus Ohio will have Forrest on tomorrow (Thursday, December 3rd), around 7:35am Eastern Time. This is a prerecorded interview. Forrest recorded it on December 1st.
    The “live” feed link can be found on the top of the page here:

    They will also put it up on their podcast page so people can listen later. It won’t be up til after it airs live. That link is:

    Maybe there will be clues!!!!…or not….

    • Just listened. Nothing really new to me. He did mention that it’s not a good idea to look in winter, which IMO says that “worth the cold” does not mean looking in winter.

    • When asked if the chewst is in the open or if you would have to move something, FF’s replay was “If you find it, it wont be a big job to get it”. Didn’t confirm it you would have to move something or not.

      • Someone has been inside of 200ft but he doesn’t know of anyone being closer….if someone was inside of 200ft then they were closer than 200ft but he doesn’t know BUT DOES APPARENTLY KNOW??? Really confused!!

        • Attention seeker,

          The 200′ mark raises a lot of questions and scenarios.
          Do those / that searcher[s] know they were within that distance?
          Where in their search did they come to this 200′ mark?
          Are those searchers the same who got the first two clues? or even the first four?
          Could it be the searchers are near the chest with the first two clues and all keep going?
          Could it be that they follow the clues and miss the location of the chest by 200′ because they only have two or four clues and still need the other five?

          Just because someone was in the correct area, doesn’t mean they finalize the poem to a point of finding the chest… depending on where this area is, it will still be nearly impossible to find anything hidden, especially a 10″x10″x5″ box, unless they have all the correct clues… and know it.

          The real puzzle is, do any of these searchers know about the clues or the 200′ from the chest, and if not WHY? What is missing in this equation?
          While some brag they are members of the 200′ club, I have to ask how can they not stay there until you’ve turned over every stone, log, bush, looked in every crack and crevice, climb every mountain and cross every sea, fought off black bears, brown bears and polar bears, fearlessly walk by rattlers and copperheads… “IF” …they knew [ the searchers ] were that close?

          IMO… they didn’t didn’t know.

          • Well seeker,
            I hate being the third on a match but on that we are in agreement….they did not know.

            And, I’ll throw this out….
            If they were “searchers” and didn’t know they possibly had the first two clues solved, then it was for some other reason than the Chase that they were at that location.(IMO)

          • That thought has been coming back to me and if a person didnt know they were so close and went on by indulgence, then perhaps something else brought them to that location/area. IMO

      • I just wish the interviewers or producers would try a little harder to get some facts straight, with that said, there was a few things that caught my attentions.

        None of the below is quotes, just recalling;

        Shouldn’t take things off a reservation…
        Don’t need the book, but it has some helpful hints…
        The clues in the poem will take you to the chest…
        Keeps saying hidden, but not saying not buried, because that is too big of a clue… { nothing new here, but still make ya wonder}
        His wife didn’t know about the hiding of the chest till at least 18 months after the fact… { helpful? Only if she would be kind enough to tell us when she was told~ lol.}

        • @seeker, I had heard the ‘within 18 months’ before, doesn’t make much difference to most of us, only folks who knew of his travels, his house keeper maybe, lol! Always appreciate what you post Seeker, seems you have a huge cache of information!

          • Just an empty brain that needs fillin…

            It doesn’t matter to me when or who knew the time of the hiding of the chest to be honest… that is not going to solve the poem. Folks who want to try and back track FF movements will just fall in another rabbit hole. It seems very clear to me at least, that fenn took every precaution he could, just for that reason.

            Even if someone was to discover, for example… he drove to “the state” on “a date” at “this time” and returned home at this “date and time” what do you really have… especially seeing where looking for a 10″ sq. box. The poem is what will or should tell us exactly where the chest is. Even if he narrowed it down to one state all that would to is beef up the tourism for that state.

            Here’s a question… is there maybe a reason Fenn won’t tell which state? Maybe we need to know something about all the states involved to understand the poem.

            Just thinking out loud.

        • Hey Seeker, FF didn’t tell us “exactly where the chest is” …. but to follow the clues “precisely”.

          ‘Precisely’ is in the same paragraph with ‘indecision’ (the key to flexibility), just before the poem, and curiously they share some etymology roots. Poem purists may not wanna go there, because, you know, its booky , but the word analysts may want to look at the flaking on this broken arrowhead.

  54. Hey Dal, Not trying to correct anything, just a confirmation, as I use dates and days of the week along with Forrest’s interviews for my solve, but was it recorded on Monday or Tuesday? December 3rd is on a Thursday this year.

  55. I’m fairly certain I know WWWH. And it checks out against all other clues.
    Pretty confident about ATIITCDown as well… I have other lines as well as the general secret to the entire puzzle.

    This is of course after going through about 20 WWWH’s with complete solves… but this one is the best, it works on all levels. It also works with THINK.

    So we know that a few have been close to the treasure. I’m hoping that those that also used my WWWH and went searching.. and contacted Forrest about their search details, can validate thier WWWH against mine.

    From there we may be able to exchange other lines and words I have partially solved.

    If you have:

    WWWHalt: N******

    And have searched in Wyoming. Let’s talk. You may have walked right past the treasure.


  56. Donna M.

    BigSkip here;

    Been listening and reading a lot. Your Dec. 2, 7:30, comment, as I recall, and possibly others, mentions a lot about ” in the canyon”. I am still influenced, puzzled and driven by FF’s remark, “if I were standing were the TC is, I’d see …….. That would probably not be the case if you were “in the canyon down”… That line in the poem is simply further directions on how to get to the final resting place.. As I have indicated in prior comments, sounds to me like a spiritual resting place with a view….Always in my humble opinion.

    • Big Skip, yes, I agree. The rest of my solve goes from the lower angles of the canyon, up a slightly elevated area to the blaze. Yes, of course! The view is better up high!
      Also, I think it is facing East.

    (8:28) “There are several people that have deciphered the first 2 clues, I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the TC. I’m not going to tell those people who they are because, one of them particularly would faint, I know, & she’d tear the country side up trying to figure out where they had been.”

    Is Fenn letting us know the first clue is in walking distance to the TC?
    How many miles? 3, 5, 10, 20, 50 miles? How far could you walk?
    Would walking right past the TC indicate they were walking towards it. Yes IMO
    It appears Fenn knows these individual, and maybe he is just playing with these people?
    Is it possible that the several people that have deciphered the first 2 clues had no idea? How would Fenn know that they had no idea unless they told him about there whereabouts & opinions about the first 2 clues? Fenn: “I think she’d tear the countryside up trying to figure out where they had been” Fenn knows about this woman……IMO
    Why would Fenn state this comment about her in the interview where he knows where she has been (probably from emails)? This info would give them a moderate advantage over everyone else knowing where they went unless it was everywhere on the highlighted area on the map which I doubt.
    Personally, I don’t think Fenn would do that & I think this statement could be meant just for them in a “gotcha” type of way considering my solve travels about 50 miles from the begin point.
    OK, I’m just in denial as with my other solves.

    • Jake,

      Fenn has stated that he knew where those searchers were by e-mails, and told him exactly where they were, so that is how he knows those searcher had the first clue[s] correct.

      I read all emails unless they are too long, unsigned, or ask for an advantage or confirmation.
      Those who have solved the first two clues are not aware that they did, so I don’t see that as useful information for anyone. I will not comment on any solutions that are sent to me by email. Good luck sir. f”

      As far as distance? At this point in time, it seems anything if valid. Although the one thing you didn’t mention as to how far away the chest is from the first clue[s] is very close. Just another thought.

  58. WWWH May mis lead you greatly . Can you tell me why? It’s only correct if it’s more like WWWsH.

  59. Chris –

    on Halloween your wrote:

    on October 31, 2015 at 10:05 pm said:
    Scott, I’m replying here because I just didn’t want to scroll around to find the thread about the Valles. So you said been there done that. Not that it would change my plans but I take it you have been to and done what I was planning to do. I’d be interested in any details you would be willing to share or possibly sharing your story on that.

    Putting boots on the ground there is tough. If you think the chest is within the Caldera you need to reserve a fishing day in order to drive your car in. Prior to June of this year, only 22 people per day (not cars – people) were allowed to drive into the Caldera via personal vehicles. I am not sure what the rule is now that the Parks Department took control in June.

    We were focused on the western area near San Antonio Hot Spring. However, we decided to use our day in the Caldera to scout the east side around reach 4 since we could access the west side by foot. Big mistake. Accessing from outside the caldera on the west side is tough.

    The next day we parked our car and on the west side and hiked up through Ice Cave Canyon toward SA springs. We quickly discovered that there is no way an 80 year old man (or 50 year old) could make two trips in this terrain in one day. Here is a link to the area. Zoom in on Ice Cave Canyon and San Antonio Spring is north up the canyon.

    We checked out the other springs down the road toward Jemez, but they were too far as well for two trips. We also scouted Battleship rock and the spring beyond there.

    I posted a few photos of the area in the photos section on this blog if you want to check it out. Not really chase related, just fun stuff.

    I could write 10 to 20 pages about the Valles area. Is there something specific you would like to know?

    Regardless of whether or not you are searching for the chest, you should plan a trip to the caldera. It is absolutely wonderful. No place like it on earth. Try to arrange driving your own vehicle if it is still allowed. We did not see a single person or car the entire day we were there.

    Scott W.

  60. imo I don’t think that warm water has to be warm to the touch – if its snow or ice that is melting it has to be warmer then when it was frozen its just my way of thinking

    • Imo, F is hinting that the majority of searchers are incorrect, thinking wwh is hot springs. F voiced searchers were spending too much time on wwh and there were alot of wwh in Rockies. And there are dozens of other ways water could be classified as wwh.
      By thinking one logical step beyond halt, would it be then cold/cool? It says to take it in the canyon down, which most canyons are caused by water erosion, and fracturing. Dropping in elevation, increased speed, and loss of sun would cool water temp. As the water plummets into the canyon, it’s either a falls or rapids, either way, cooling.

      I think the attention is being paid to the ww and not the halting process. You begin at “halt”. Halt not only means to stop, but to be redirected.
      Redirected from warm water, to a cool one dropping down into a canyon down.

      Again, that’s imo. The dictionary can be your best friend!
      If you can’t figure out where the ww halts, you may as well stay home and play canasta…which ALSO means ‘creel’=fish basket! Is F hinting the ww’s is a fishing spot, and it ends at the canyon’s mouth?

      Since I’ve changed my thinking and clue sleuthing process, (using thesarius/dictionary/cross word dictionary/geography texts), I’ve found alot of eye opening answers!
      Also, keeping an open mind and doing a 360’ on all the poem’s words has allowed some eye opening discoveries! I see what a wonderful architectural structure the poem really is!
      ¥Peace ¥

      • @Donna been reading your line of thinking thees past few days re WWWH, I for one have been thinking it’s a sudden temperature change more than the water halting, either warm into cold or cold into warm, thinking warm = none trout waters, cold or cooler = trout waters hoB = spawning grounds but still don’t know where! lol! Just want to say thanks for sharing as it keeps me thinking!

        Do you remember the old commercial water cooled type air-conditioners or maybe they were giant swamp coolers, things where water would cascade down wooden slats into a reservoir and be cooled falling down the planks? Sort of like a water fall over rocks. So, anyhow, one question I have about the ‘begin’ is this location affected by seasonal changes to any major degree or is it the same year round. Would help narrow down location if the same year round or not? IMO

        I just listened to Ohio radio program, nothing much new but good to listen to! IMO

        Thanks again, really keeps me thinking. One other thought, for me ‘stay home and play canasta’ is just an expression as that card game was very popular in the 50’s and into the early 60’s, not a hint IMO…..

        • DonnaM and Cholly

          I also agree with this WWWH line of thinking. I will share my solve either in April when I am in West Yellowstone or in May when I get back. It fits completely with this thought process and IMO serves as an excellent example. Too early to share right now though 🙂

        • Cholly, thanks for your interest in my thoughts.
          Imo, all levels of rivers vary with the seasons. I feel the late spring and early summer have the deepest pools, as far as trout are concerned and F’s fishing hobby. Early summer is MY hunting weather, after the water levels off from snow melt. The sun is hot enough to warm the water.
          Canyons with a summer water supply are my target interests now.
          I remember those water slat coolers, same principle as a canyon.
          Didn’t think canasta was much of a word hint, just a neat word association!
          Thanks for your advice/insight!

        • I might as well add my thoughts on WW, if ya’ll don’t mind… Where warm waters halt may not have anything to do with a change in temperature of the waters.

          If the poem read, where waters halt. What would your thought process be? or if where cold waters halt? Is warm an indicator for “the” waters or just waters? The other factor to ponder on is the plural in waters… is it meant to be more than one body of water? What I have found interesting is; when reading older encyclopedias, “waters” is used commonly as a single body… such as the ” waters of the Yellowstone river”, or “the waters of a lake.”

          Not till I read newer or present day writings does a river or lake are referred to as water [ singular ]. We also do not call water in a glass, a glass of waters. So what is the difference between what waters represents to what water actually is?

          Is it as simple as all waters are warm because it is a liquid? and if there are many wwwh in the RM’s, are we to understand why there are so many?

          • Couple of thoughts :

            1 – the word “halt” used in present tense, therefore this may mean that the halting is done constantly, regardless the season. I remember reading some solves based on some waters halted some time ago which may not be correct.

            2- is the halting done by waters that are warm? or at a warm location. If latter , this may mean spring or summer.

          • Seeker,
            Question for you what do you think WWWH has to do with canyon down? If anything…?

          • Count,

            I think the IT is the waters.

            Why do we assume “we” need to go down the canyon?
            Why is “In there” a small place?
            Why is “where” only the hiding spot?

            We have been told there are many wwwh in the RM’s, and to look at the big picture…

            Yet we see 9 lines out of 24 for 9 clues. When we have been told, every word is deliberate.

            Begin it where liquid waters change directions and create the canyon down…

            Of course if you believe the first clue is WWWH, I have to say No… and yes. I believe ww works another clue and why.
            Maybe I should say hints instead of clues, as to what I read in the poem explains a clue and not just shows me a line that is a clue… if that makes sense.

          • Seeker,
            I don’t believe “we” go down the canyon, I agree with you that it is that water that goes down the canyon in the form of a river. I do not believe ” in there” is a small place but a large place that holds the river. I also don’t belive the where from wwwh is where the tresure lies. Wwwh was my first clue for about a month into the chase, then I felt like I wised up some and moved on.

          • Count,

            You’re starting to sound like me, that may not be a good

            I lean to even bigger than a river.. More like all of them. I have a gut feeling we were to understand the mountains north of SF are the RM’s before we were confirmed that they are one in the same.

            I don’t think wwwh is a clue by itself, but part of one.

          • If you don’t want to read all of this, just skip to the last two paragraphs.

            I’m still not convinced we are looking for anything that has to do with H2O.

            Perhaps WWWH is a place. An example is where warm = range.

            The canyon – why is it that “not far, but too far to walk” can’t be a description of the specific canyon we are looking for? An example might be that the later is describing a distance that isn’t measured in traditional units of measure (such as foot steps – walking).

            Ten Sleep canyon was so named because it was a distance of ten sleeps from point A to point B. It was measured with a scale that did not involve putting one foot in front of the other (too far to measure in steps, or a walk).

            This is how I keep looking at the poem. Nothing is as it seems. It’s not water. It’s not wise. It’s not Brown. It’s not a blaze.

            Wise = All knowing = All Bright = Albright

            Blaze = Hot Foot. Look down at your blaze (hot foot) and your quest to cease. get it? BTW this place exist just off Greys River.

            I’m not suggesting any of the above is correct, but that is the way I try to solve each line.

            What I am disappointed with thus far, is that I expected each individual solve to paint a picture of the one big/overall solve. That hasn’t happened for me yet.

            Have you ever played the twenty question computer game? You just think of something. Anything. It could be “underwear”. The program will always guess it in 20 questions or less.

            This is what I think the poem is doing, but in reverse. The poem knows what it is and is trying to describe it to us with answers to the questions it already knows. We just need to figure out what the questions are.

            Opinions and thoughts only.

            Scott W.

          • Seeker,
            I know there are warm water rivers and cold water rivers.
            Some of the qualifications for ww are: (non hot springs)
            A level area for its bed.
            Lots of sun.
            Slow water speed. (A meandering bed is slower than a straight bed.)
            I agree about ‘waters’. I’ve read in the Missouri Conservation mag, “The warm waters of the Missouri River.” And I know many rivers merge with it, possibly responsible for the ‘waters’ aspect in the poem.

            So, using that logic, are we dealing with a slow moving, heavily blended rivers as one? And what would cease it’s classification of warm waters by what type of halt…rocks, elevation, a straight away where it picks up speed so the sun can’t warm it as well?
            My vote is the elevation, it’s what the poem tells us, IN THE CANYON DOWN.
            The place holds fond memories for F. His fav two things? Rivers and pueblos. Both are found in the mts and canyons.
            That’s where my mind is heading as I dissect the poem.

  61. imo- is that one body of water meets with another body of water that is much colder or freezing there for warm water stops being warm as it mixes with a much colder body of water

  62. Might a saddle be an omega or rainbow? I found a pot but not sure if it’s indulgence or a portapotty. 🙂

  63. DH, it’s a double Omega at the end of his 2 books.
    HALT – Hike Along Lazaro Trail, IT – Indian Territory, BEGIN – Bison, Elk, Grizzlies, Indian Nation or Nature. Wait a minute, this is taking me to different places but within the map area?

    • Thanks, Jake. I forgot about that. I ruined that page with lemon juice. I think I need to get back to the big picture.

  64. It’s that time of year again. I need Forrest to come and light my Fire, you know my fireplace. I can’t light a fire to save my life.
    And it’s getting Cold here.

  65. Great news from the interview, that whoever retrieves the chest there will not be a lot of work involved in getting to it.
    Heck yea. 🙂 so it’s not under piles of rocks. It’s in the WOOD !!!!!!! 🙂
    I will let Yall know if I find it next year. 🙂 🙂 ha ha!!!!!!


    “American Pickers” is doing something on The Thrill of the Chase. I don’t know what but they needed a photo of Forrest. I know they didn’t go to Forrest’s house or meet with him…Anyway the episode with mention of Forrest is scheduled to air Wednesday, December 9th, on the History Channel at 9:00pm EST. The episode’s title is “Toughest Digs.”

    • Maybe, they are the ones that found “Bullet” for F’s friend?
      Guess we have to wait. Didn’t find any teasers on History Channel site or FB.

  67. I solved the poem. No IMO’s, no doubts. I went to the spot. I spent the whole day searching the wood. I was very brave. Indulgence eluded me…but she is there, I was definitely within 200 feet. 4 inches of snow hampered the search a bit, but I have sneaking suspicion that Forrest knew people would solve the poem before he died…And he pulled some sort of Texan bait and switch. “Hey looky in my left hand!!” All the while, he was palming it in the right. I’s there though, I know it. (unless somebody beat me there). You really will slap yourself in the forehead and say DUH! when you figure it all out. But then the real chase begins; phrases like needle in a haystack come to mind. You’ll understand more when you solve it too. And by the way, Google earth LIES TO YOU!! Forrest did it twice in one afternoon, and so did I…I am overweight and out of hiking shape, and by the end of trip two, I was asking myself how in the HECK I was going to pack that treasure out of there!! Get into hiking shape people…He was a down right spry 79 or 80 I’ll tell you that. He used some jungle camouflage trick he learned in Vietnam I’ll bet. I think he must be a shape shifter…or he can dislocate stuff to get into tight spaces and then pop it back in…Anyway, let the beatings begin!! I know i’m in for it now with the bold statement I just made…But you won’t get this solve out of me…because it’s THEE correct one. But, I will give you one hint, and it’s a REALLY good hint. You can solve eight of the nine clues without EVER finding the blaze. NOT MY OPINION>>>IT IS A FACT!!

    • Oh my, oh my! Michael, let me enlighten this solve a bit. First, I would like to congratulate you on getting out this time of the year to look. Second, is your elevation abouve 5000 feet in the place you are looking? Lastly, do NOT be too sure of yourself, many have been fooled before. No disrespect, just being real here.

    • Well, Michael You knew it would happen and you even ask for it…
      Why is it you “know” you’ve solve it and still empty handed? In fact you state you were within two hundred feet, snow or no snow if you truly solve the poem / clues, how is it you and all the others who have claimed the same never produce one little tidbit of evidence. You even claim we don’t need all nine clues… I’m baffled to see the claims.

      You’ve been around long enough to know that will leave a bad taste in most everyone. Seriously, it seems you’ve done lost your chez off the cracker… Oh I’m sure there’ll be a couple here who will pat ya on the back, say good for you… maybe next search will go better… This is getting really boring imo. I’ll go has far, just for the fun of it, and challenge you to give something that is absolutely the first clue… just for us critics to try and shoot down and attempt to dissect. That’s right, I’m asking you to man up!

      • Ok, Michael, confidence is good but blowing smoke is just idiotic! I’m not baiting you but, it seems you can give your wwwh clue out if it a thing. No one but you will know the place, so it won’t hurt. Is it a confluence, fall, sewer…?
        I think I remember you saying the same thing before when you and Gguy were searching! It seems your exuberance needs to be tempered…you don’t have it til ya have it, that’s what F said!
        P.s…watch out, Goofy’s finger is twitching!

    • Actually, If looking quickly down after discovering the blaze gets the treasure in you hands, then I would agree; eight clues come prior to finding the blaze.

      FYI – I suggest you retract your “NOT MY OPINION” statement. It my be a fact, but until you have the chest, it is not a provable fact. I would like to continue to see your posts here.

      Don’t get nuked.

      Scott W.

    • I’m going to agree with Google Earth lying to you, and add that Street View does too. Neither correctly gives you a good sense of steep inclines.

    • Well Mike D it was nice knowing you. Do you have a desire to suit up in the pink tutu again? Get Xmas colours this time, please! I am going to miss you because I really like you.

      To buy you some time why don’t you pull out that checklist in my book and run your solution through it. It has never failed yet to kill as solution. Ask German guy. Anyway, Seeker is trying to buy you some time, give him a bone and I am sure he will shoot your solution down in seconds.

      • LOL… maybe not seconds. I’m a slow typist and my spell checker always fights me…

        Just once, I mean really, just once… I wish that someone who has the guts to say ‘I know’ would have the brass to back it up… Just once.
        Heck I’m still waiting on the woman from VT who spent two days and nights with the chest, and hubby at her side… took pictures even, but had to go home to tend the for the cattle.
        Or maybe the Micheal D couldn’t retrieve the chest as it is being protected by an Alien eggs.

        But Mike seems to only have 95% of it solved maybe him and Andrew should team up…

        Just once…

        • @ Seeker

          Take a box out anywhere, say in NY city, then bury it..afterwards pen a poem and see if folks can find it. A 1 foot box is so extremely hard to find that even if you told me exactly where to go I’d still have a hard time finding it. Odds are the treasure will not be discovered in Fenns lifetime if ever. I think its time for some of us to come to grips with this and move on. Michael is having a hard time letting go, for some its harder than others.

          • I’m curious Ester, as to the difficult part if finding the chest if, as you said, ‘told exactly” where to go? We have been told the poem will lead “precisely” to the chest… yet Michael is telling the world, no need for all nine clues… he knows the solution, states in BOLD letter his facts. and still no chest… then the old back up excuse ( unless someone beat me there )

            I’m curious how someone can’t find the chest if the poem tells precisely where it lays in wait? Your comment sound more like, it leads you to a ball park size area, and from there you’re on your own.

            And what is your reasoning for the odd being against the chest not found in fenn’s lifetime? Folks keep say this, but never give a reason. Personally I could care less when or by who…
            My only point to Michael D post is… If you’re going to brag, put up or shut up… it’s getting old. Donna state below, and she is correct… New comers to the chase may hear this and back away.

            Oh! and fenn stated ‘hidden’, why can’t we keep that wording correct? Believe what ya like, but hidden is what we are told.

      • True words from up north, frank right to the point. I miss Toronto, fun days. In spite of our differences we get along.

    • Michael,
      You’ve been here a long time, and put in your dues. Why not you?
      I think you could use a great big smile! 🙂
      Good luck!

      • Yep, my sentiments as well, Jdiggins!

        Here’s another “great big smile” for you, Michael.

    • There is only one way to say it….Wrong! But I do like your tenacity and drive Mike. Good luck to ya…

    • @Michael D. – I was looking back at previous comments/posts you’ve made and you literally have a post titled “The Sure Thing…”, except that was in 2014. What makes now any different?

  68. Searchers keep ignoring the poem. If you deviate even a little it will be done to your demise. Only by solving the clues will you be able to find the treasure. When you solve it you will know, not because you think you’ll know, but because you’ll know you know. It’s my opinion.RC

    • I do not and have not thrown Mr. Fenn’s poem to the side. I can tell you, however, if you are on the right track you have to put “boots on the ground”. I did it fir over 2 months , and believe I was close. When he said it was not going to be easy, that was either an understatement, or I am really slow. RC, if you are in the right spot, you still have much work to do. To everyone, NEVER underestimate Mr. Fenn!!!

    • RC,

      Finally! I have the instructions I needed! Thanks RC.

      So all I have to do is solve the clues in order to find the treasure? I sure wish I knew this all along. Wow – I’ll be up all night.

      RC – I’m poking fun. No harm meant, but I had to write it. 🙂

      Scott W.

  69. Some here are sorely misguided. By definition, to “solve the poem” is to find the treasure….unless, of course, you are seeking only a linguistic victory…..

    • @ Philosopher… Mr. Fenn devised this poem as an en encripted map to the treasure chest to get folks off the couch, gaming machines, etc. He accomplished that with me, and I hope you can too!
      @Goofy…. please do not nuke anyone, “tis the season to be jolly”. He doesn’t have the chest, So it’s still out there. I can think of 1000 reasons not to nuke him, or me. But having a hard time with 1 that justifies. Just warn us first, please. He is not in the spot where I was for 2 months, he will have a nice vacation and enjoy the things this wonderful world is made for. All in my opinon.

      • @Chesney…I understand your thoughts. My premise is that Forrest imagined a “treasure hunt”, not a “solution hunt”. Whoever solves the poem will have everything they need to get right up off the couch, go directly to the chest, pick it up, and bring it home…To say that one has the “solution” without also having the chest in hand is nonsensical, IMO…

      • Chesney; He knows better than that……..Actually I thought he was joking. It’s a classic gone off the deep end I SOLVED THE POEM!!! It’s always the same. He’ll start preaching about how dumb we are because we can’t figure it out like he did, but he won’t actually say anything about his solve for discussion.

        He went to look but for whatever reason couldn’t find it. But he’s still absolutely sure so when he goes back and it’s still not there it means someone else has got it or Fenn moved it……Yada Yada Yada

        It really gets old and is nothing but a waste of time.

        • @Goofy… rest assuredthat nobody has it and he did not move it at his age. He said something like,”I had a hole card, and if I decidedto I could go back and get it.” Not the case! He hid it very well, and if he wanted it back, someone in his immediate family could retrieve it if he was not able to do so. Then it would be over,buthe is a man of his word. All in my humble opinion,of course.

        • My rule of thumb, by Einstein, if you can’t explain it, you don’t know enough about it ” . This is complicated. Take heed, take time off as needed, we all do. This is not the be all, end all of our existence. If you loose that, you are forever doomed to roam the deserts of time of what you think you deserve or ….arrogance.

          This game is open to everyone. That is the beauty of it. Play on!

        • Not to be a witch, but I’m all too familiar with rules. Being in the military, then PD, I’ve learned you have to have them and follow them.

          MD, I went back and counted 3 times that you said you solved it, but it wasn’t there. I don’t know if you have an Aura of protection around you, but TOTC rules day ya just can’t say you did it without that “IMO” in there somewhere!
          I have to give my 2 cents here and say, PLEASE DON’T MAKE THOSE STATEMENTS! We have new people here all the time and they may give up before they begin! Or, is that your plan? I’m not being catty, but I know you expect your kids to follow your rules, so show some respect for us, too. You can be confident in your solve as several of us are, but your methods appear, to me, to rub mud in our faces, like you are the only intelligent one here.
          Come on, print a “I got too exuberent” retraction!
          Besides, you won’t find it in the snow, F said so!
          I’ve enjoyed your “opinions” up til now.
          I won’t say “good luck”, you apparently don’t need it, since you found it…oh wait…NO you didnt!
          See you in the funny papers!
          ¥Peace ¥

  70. Well, I knew it would happen. That’s okay…ALL IS IMO…Happy now goofy et al?
    Just a little advice for all of you ” IF you Solve it and go there the chest is yours” dreamers. THINK AGAIN!! Forrest has said 100, 500, 1000 years from now for a reason. I will not divulge this solve, period. Not one little scrap of it…Not because I’m smarter than anyone else, but because I want the chest for myself. Call me greedy…Sure, I could blow all your minds and lay it all out in front of you, but I won’t. Suffice to say when you do figure it all out, there’s WAY MORE than enough evidence to let you know it. It may not be buried, but it is darn sure covered up. BRING A METAL DETECTOR!!! ONCE AGAIN>>ALL IS IMO…or nuke me if it suits you better.

    • Yes I am…..Thank you Mike. Looking forward to hearing your search story, find it or not.

      Good hunting.

    • Michael,
      Of course it’s hidden well. We’ve been told no one will stumble across it, yet the poem is supposed to lead precisely to the chest, and you said, you were with two hundred feet [ whatever distance that may actually be ]. You said, you can find the chest with only eight clues, and still you haven’t. Do you see the conflict of your own words…

      Why bother with the gloating and boasting to have all this knowledge you claim to know / understand, and still comeback with… ” Sure, I could blow all your minds and lay it all out in front of you, but I won’t.”
      So Why the Big Production? And when asked to substantiate your Big Claims, you hide behind excuses. Now you follow up with.. “ONCE AGAIN>>ALL IS IMO…or nuke me if it suits you better.”

      Once again?! You actually stated;

      “…because it’s THEE correct one. But, I will give you one hint, and it’s a REALLY good hint. You can solve eight of the nine clues without EVER finding the blaze. NOT MY OPINION>>>IT IS A FACT!!”… and… “I solved the poem. No IMO’s, no doubts…”

      And never backs up their own words…
      All I see is another searcher who is looking for an ego boost… Again! Find it, don’t find it. I just don’t understand this obsessive need to tell the world how you cracked the poem, when you have nothing to back it up. Really a sad state…

      • Well, its like when you get really big news that you want to yell from the top of the roof, but you can,t so you do the next best thing. Whatever seeker, I get tired of your negativity too, but you still spew it.

    • Then…

      “I am going to spoon feed to all that read, what I believe to be a HUGE breakthrough in the way we approach the solve.” – Michael D. 11/16/2015


      “I will not divulge this solve, period. Not one little scrap of it…” – Michael D. 12/6/2015

      So, like, either you already did give out scraps, or you’re just saying things to get people riled up over the winter.

    • MD, one of my favorite Forrest quotes is “avoid those things that distract you from your self esteem”. It’s simple but one of those sayings that you can get real mileage out of. You’re clearly feeling frustrated you have come up with an interpretation of the clues you feel really good about but one that hasn’t yet yielded anything. Your last couple of posts have a “shout at the world” tone to them. Honestly putting that kind of energy out here isn’t going to make you feel any better about coming back without the chest. If you’ve figured it out that’s great but it’s probably best to have the self discipline to hold on the absolutes and the virtual hand waving until you have seen your solve out to the end. The course you’ve charted over the past day isn’t respectful to the community and I doubt it’s reflective of the kind of person you want to be.

    • Mike D…Mike D… Mike D…Forrest has just told us in his last radio interview(Columbus Ohio) that if you find it, it won’t be a big job to retrieve it. Also remember the hours of conversations and threads involving the Chest being exposed to the elements…what you are saying is bogus and all of the IMO’s won’t change that. I guess controversy makes good fodder for the winter crazies…I do enjoy your enthusiasm though. What state are you searching in now? Could it be, Panic ?

    • Sheesh the drama, here let me check my pulse. NO PULSE! I’ve become cerebral about the chase. Maybe you can find it maybe not, if you can think his thoughts.

    • MD, I know where the chest is also.(IMO) I will let you know when I retrieve it so I can find out where you thought it was. Maybe the same place.

    • In my experience, it is tricky to find the blaze. Maybe you can respond to this post with your blaze. Then those of us in the know, will know. I am sure you are very excited about your solve. Good luck to you.

          • My apologies, i simply have an idea of the blaze in theory. I was just hoping that others that have “found” the blaze in a similar way would respond in kind. I did not mean to get my lines crossed like that. These theories are all just so exciting. I will re-read my posts more carefully in the future. I am not about to dig in the snow and discover anything. 🙂 sometimes what i say in my head sounds better than what someone else reads what i type. If only i could get the words to do what theyre suppose to do.

  71. “Greedy”,
    such a nasty little word, some how this is not what I picture for the Noble quest that Mr. Fenn created. If you want to be associated with that term, to each his own. It might be a good time to evaluate your motivation. IMO

    • Greed comes in various forms and it is probably the motivation behind most of us involved. Greedily we may want the contents of the chest. Greedily we may want the fame associated with finding the chest or solving the puzzle. Greedily we may want the satisfaction of knowing that we were THE ONE to do it. Most often, however, greed comes in the desire to be known by others. Personally I think Michael D should exercise a little more caution and humility in his statements, but I think what drives his words are the desire to be known. It’s hard to blame anyone for that. We all have a basic need to be known.

    • Well I suppose I’m on Mike’s side this time. I’m looking for the gold nothing else. I’ll take the fortune, someone else can have the fame……..There’s a lot to be said for greed.

      I’ve searched the Rockies most of my life. I don’t know how many slot canyons I’ve slogged through for miles in stinking, stagnant water looking for that special ray of light penetrating the canyon, or nearly froze to death spending the night wanting to get a shot of a pristine new snowfall as a foreground to a beautiful morning light landscape. I’ve been hailed on, rained on, broiled, steamed, sand blasted, and bit or pooped on by every animal and insect known to man in the Rockies in search of that “perfect” photograph.

      Should I ever solve the nine clues and find the chest I’ll have a new decked out truck and a backpack full of new camera gear. Maybe I’ll twist off and hire a couple Sherpas to carry all my new gear. 🙂 Other than that not a lot changes…..the search goes on.

      • “Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures, the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge, has marked the upward surge of mankind and greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the U.S.A.”

      • Goofy,
        “Maybe I’ll twist off and hire a couple Sherpas to carry all my new gear. ”
        Odd terminology twist off is, I have spent 30 years drilling oil and gas wells and we use that term often.I have never heard it used by a photographer before, or anyone that was not in the drilling industry.

        I agree with your thoughts, it would be a luxury to pursue the things I love and be able to do it more often if the chest is found by me, but in the grand scheme of things I would not want it to change who I have become. I already have the pleasure of more often to a certain extent just being involved.

      • someone that is truely greedy would want the fame, in the long run the fame could be worth more than the treasure if done right. With book and movie rights upon other things one could stand to make a fortune. That kind of fortune could last a lot longer then a couple mil and last longer but I don’t have to tell most that.

      • How can ‘greed’ even be a factor, if the challenge was always to find the ‘treasure’ by solving the poem.

        In this particular challenge, ‘greed’ is ignoring love one, dependents, work, setting yourself up for a financial disaster because of obsession, and no self control for lure of gold, etc.

        The finding and retrieving is just the end results. Although the sum is a motivator, we still need to control our impulses and use common sense. I always wonder how many would even try to solve the poem, nevertheless search… if the prize was a tupperware bowl full of pennies.

        Greed is nothing more than a power trip for the obsessive personalities and attention seekers.
        Oh right… IMO

      • Goofy, do you have a link for others to view your photo collection and purchase?

      • This is the thrill of the chase in its truest form. I am absolutely chasing the fortune, and to a lesser extent the fame that goes with it, but I am rich beyond measure already. I have spent a lifetime exploring the farthest and wildest places the Rockies have to offer. The thing I admire most about the whole circus this has become is that everyone who ventures into the wild has the opportunity to embrace a new way of living. Not everyone who seeks the treasure will find it, maybe it will be a thousand years before it is found. No one understands this better than the architect of the chase. The reward for all but one of us is much less tangible than a chest of gold. Yet to some who search the rewards reaped from their time in the wilderness are as good as gold. To me the fact that Forrest Fenn has created a doorway into this consciousness is the greatest achievement. I am so very excited for the searchers who can embrace this ideological shift. To those that have, welcome to the light!

  72. hello could someone tell me how i find the other blogs i only see them if someone hasa recent post . exam.. the blaze .thx

    • @Lee tons of data can be found here, you just have to search! It’s hidden not buried! Go over to the east here and go up north, then go down, look for a word that is key like ‘information’ and click on ‘it’ then try other similar headings, shouldn’t take more than a month or two to read most of everything. IMO! Also, lower left on here are a few more links to other peoples links.

      • “….shouldn’t take more than a month or two to read most of everything.”

        And that is just what is here on Dal’s site, not to mention everything else out there!!! 🙂

        And Lee, take notes….lots and lots and lots of notes!! 🙂

    • Lee,
      Ignore all blogs, they will dull your imagination. Only listen to and read what forrest says.

  73. I think what may be lacking for some, when a search fails, is a sense of humor. Yes, it’s a bummer to be defeated (maybe multiple times), it may make previous statements look a trifle silly, and it’s scary if you’ve spent scarce resources on a wild goose chase, but all the more reason to laugh – at yourself and the craziness of the Chase.

    No one forced us to get involved, and no matter what our motivations are, it makes sense to take a step back and not treat the whole thing too seriously. Otherwise, bitterness and resentment could follow – and we could even jeopardize relationships.

    I am itching to get back out there, but would have to contend with over 12″ of snow – and more forecast. It’s just not sensible at the moment. But whether I’m right or wrong about my spot, I would say that unless you can pinpoint the location to within about 20 or 30 feet max, you’re probably not going to find it (IMO, the poem gives extremely precise directions). If you end up convinced that you came within 200 feet, but couldn’t locate it, you’re probably not in the right spot – and that’s a good moment to have a chuckle and brush the whole thing off as just another fun (and funny) adventure.

    • Agree voxpops! After all, if you aren’t having fun with something (particularly TTOTC), why do it? That’s my philosophy on most things in life and one of the reasons I’m still with the chase after all these years (4+).

      Some interesting comments in this thread about what motivates people to participate in TTOTC. I once emailed Mr. Fenn my thoughts on that very topic. Greed was listed as one possibility among many. I never heard back from him, but suspect it’s because he receives zillions (overstatement) of emails. That’s OK, I have a fairly good idea how he feels about the subject. I don’t know the man nor have I met him, but his reputation speaks for itself. Greed does not make the list. It never has. It was an important lesson for me about motivations and intent (and clarity in word choice)…whatever they may be.

        • Needle in a haystack is an understatement! Its almost crazy to expect to find a 10″ box in the whole of the Rockies!

          That said, I’m going to go way out on a limb here and suggest that FF clearly marked the spot. That was one of the things that so excited me about my latest findings. After slapping my forehead at the “joke” solution, I loaded the coordinates into Google Maps and within literally a few feet of the pinpointed location was a carefully prepared “arrangement”. Now, this could all be coincidence and wishful thinking, but I don’t think the numbers lie. This is why I believe you’ll “know” when you find it.

  74. About those clues – “Your effort will be worth the cold”, Being tall, slim and having spent all of my 48 yrs in the Rocky mtns these are my thoughts on this clue – 1) when you wade through a mountain stream or river 2) In a cave or tunnel 3) Any elevation above IMO 7,000 or 8,000 ft. ( I lived at 9,700 ft. for ten years and always had some kind of jacket with me, even in August if your outside after dark you need your jacket!) 4) Cold refers to another word or term like glacier, ice, frozen etc…… I always have these in mind when trying to solve the poem/riddle and anymore ideas would be cool Thanks

    • “put in” has been known as a boating term, not saying you have to take a boat to find the treasure, but maybe thats what Fenn ment by worth the cold. Anyone that has been rafting in the rockies knows that the trip is worth the cold.

      • I think of ”put in’ to mean get your feet wet by crossing a wade-able stream to get to the other side so that from there….etc. Also, agree or feel ‘cold’ is what the RM’s are even in the summer as stated above. I spent some time yesterday searching/checking out various road closures in the 4 state search area. CO has a nice web site and most of YNP is closed for the season. IMO

      • Put in is also used when a person is buried. I recently attended a funeral mass and this term was used.

    • Finder,
      Many thoughts has been put to ” your effort will be worth the cold”. and you mentioned some of them.

      Others are; the cold of the chest [ bronze / metal ]… not too helpful if you consider it a single meaning.
      Cold, has in season or an event during a time of year.
      Cold, as in water
      Cold, has to Glaciers [ time period, NP, snow cap mountain ].
      Cold, as in seeking ~ as all the prior failed efforts will be worth your persistence.
      Cold, as in temperature [ how you use that has many different usages as well ] Elevation can be one.
      Cold, as in death [depending on how you read the poem ].

      There can be many usage for cold by itself, but what would it mean with the poem as a whole, and does it ‘only’ have to have one meaning?

      Funny thing about Cold, it is exact opposite of warm in most meanings of both words. Most like to think ‘warm waters halt’ is the first clue… could cold be related to understanding warm? Now you just opened the flood gates for many more meaning usage.

      I guess I didn’t help much, huh?

      • Wow Seeker that’s way outside my box (death) if you know what I mean and I never thought of it correlating with “warm waters halt” but I will give it some thought, thanks!

    • Your effort will be worth the cold – I don’t think this is a clue, appears to be straight forward & not to be deciphered except for the fact of how you will be cold, but either way you will be cold during or after your effort & finding the TC. I have tried to tie this together with being up in the mountains & late in the day, getting dark soon, cold air sinking into the valley, possibly in the Fall, when you find the treasure.
      Tried to tie this into the blaze, thinking, the sun is setting allot lower to the southwest along a range where the sun would illuminate a crevice or cavern on the south west side of a rocky outcrop or lower mountainside that is within a mile or mile & a half hiking distance from a forest service road.
      I think it will be getting cold when the sun goes down. Could also be you have to cross your creek that you went up. It doesn’t matter if it’s summer time, the water will still be cold. I have found a few such areas in Gallatin National Forrest, that is my search area for now & this summer, but lets face it, there are many in all states on the map. IMGO

  75. Michael D. I know how you feel. IMO I solved the poem also, I KNEW I was right. I kept it simple like FF said, I listened well. I spent day and night researching like everyone else. I knew it so well that I spent two months checking on openings at YSNP cabins to get 5 night in a row in the same cabin. I had to change my date to an earlier time because I didn’t want someone to beat me to it. I had all the nine clues plus some solved. If you don’t believe me read my solve under “Others Adventures” “A Redneck From Texas….”. No I didn’t find the chest, so I have to ask myself “Where was I wrong?”
    Its really hard to leave a spot not knowing if you are really close or not.
    If you, or any others out there, haven’t read my solve I invite you to see my answers and how I came to them. Tell me where I’m wrong, I would really like to know. Wrong state? Wrong WWWH, Wrong HOB? Wrong Canyon?, Wrong end? Wrong Blaze?,etc. All the hints seam to say I’m right but I don’t have the chest. So I’m WRONG or a POOR Searcher. It would be great if someone would go to my spot and find it since I didn’t. Maybe I should have looked under the rock to my left instead of right. Who knows, I just wish someone would find it so I can go on with my life.
    Why not share the state you are looking? That shouldn’t be too big of hint to anyone else.

    • The states are shared in searchers discussions link each state has a thread. IMO If you have the wrong state, than everything else is not correct. Check out the state threads.

  76. There is one thing that I have been wondering since I frist started the chase, Is knowledge of history mandatory to solve some or any of the clues? Either general history or history of your search area? I have yet to see or heard of Fenn speak about this when it comes to the poem but I am still young to the chase and may not of come acrossed it yet.

    • The Count, very good question and this question about history came up in discussion a few weeks back and I remember Seeker did a good write up about it and ff’s answer about the history question which can be found at Mysterious Writings -Jenny Kile which has a link at the bottom of this page.

      I just didn’t agree with Seeker’s interpretation of ff’s response but that’s ok. I forget my big response I was going to write up then but if it comes up again I’ll try to remember.

      • Ready, willing and able for a good discussion Fun…
        Nothing says we have to agree, that’s what is fun about a good debate.

    • Mr. Fenn, Is there any level of knowledge of US history that is required to properly interpret the clues in your poem. ~Steve R

      No Steve R,
      The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.ff

      “Dear Mr. Fenn,
      We are a group of avid elderly bridge players in San Diego who after reading your book hope to find your treasure. We are not into poetry as much as the memoir. We realize the clues are in the poem, but were wondering if there isn’t at least one clue in each chapter.
      Thank you for a great book. Sincerely, Emily,
      Forrest’s succinct response:Emily,
      All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f”


      There was another quote I recall MDavis asked about any special knowledge needed… That can be found on MW’s I believe the answer was basically the same… No special knowledge. But I don’t have that quote at the ready. Hope that helps.

      • Count,

        I came across the Q&A I was referring to;

        Is any specialized knowledge required to find the treasure? For instance, something learned during your time in the military, or from a lifetime of fly fishing? Or do you really expect any ordinary average person without your background to be able to correctly interpret the clues in the poem? ~mdavis19
        No specialized knowledge is required mdavis19, and I have no expectations. My Thrill of the Chase book is enough to lead an average person to the treasure.f

      • Thanks Seeker for showing us ff’s quote about history again.

        Mr. Fenn, Is there any level of knowledge of US history that is required to properly interpret the clues in your poem. ~Steve R

        No Steve R,
        The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.ff

        If I remember right last time you said in quotes that ff said no need for history which isn’t a ff quote so that’s what I meant above.

        But take a deeper look at ff’s response also. Forrest picks up on the requirement part of the question in his response when he says no, the only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. I mean that is the only requirement to properly interpret the clues in his poem. He’s not even considering about history in his answer, IMO. I would like to see the question without the use of the word ‘required’.

        Since we know what the only requirement is, that doesn’t mean anything else a searcher uses to help figuring the clues is not helpful. Forrest brings this up when he says a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help. Or in my mind other subjects could maybe help too like history.

        • Hey Fun,

          The part of the quote that caught my eye was U.S. History… not so much all history. And that depends on what one thinks history pertains to.
          You may think the study geography is included in “history” where I do not. Long before class rooms and science studies etc, Mankind simply lived as one with geography… Study / knowing of the land surface and the inhabitants. Sounds more like just understanding nature and how the world works… example: knowing the RM’s are still moving.

          Technically fenn didn’t rule out history, but in my eye “U.S” history is not going to help. I don’t believe knowing about “A” single conflict in our history is involved, or “A” single happening created by mankind… That is just my take. With that said… there maybe a grey area to that though, Such as Earth Quake lake… a natural event, and understanding of how it happen, with the involvement of man, yet not directly. Mans or better inhabitant, created a Dam that slowed the flow of the river… yet was not directly involved with the acts of nature that created the second lake…. does that make sense to you?

          Look at it this way… If I was to go out into the wild and map all the rivers, there sources, there affects on the terrain and surrounding land, the affect to wildlife or inhabitant, etc. is that history or just simply understanding my own back yard… where we live. Or if I discover a short cut through the mountains by a lower passage and utilize it, is that automatically a human trail? Compared to cutting out a section of land and laying railroad tracks or a roadway. Humans have walked Mountain Ranges for 1000’s of years… Rm’s, CD, Smokies etc. are they Human trails as well? of just us wondering from here to there. We give then names as trails, yet we did not create them.
          on the flip side, we created designated trails for public safety in our NP etc. Most of those I would consider a human trail…

          I guess it’s all on how one looks at what History is. But for that particular quote, “U.S history” stood out as, No.
          Keep in mind we have to look at all the comments and statements to make an educated thought of what fenn maybe trying to say… Mdavis question of special knowledge, all the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem, a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help etc, etc,
          I don’t see U.S History as useful or even needed. At least in the way I read and attempt to understand the poem.

          Remember when… most thought, WWWH was a dam? and the level of the playing field comment. Fenn never stated that “all” the clues were not associated with a structure, just where the chest lays in wait. Yet I would have to rule out a dam as a clue for the U.S history as to Man’s deliberate involvement in the creation of the dam, as a clue. Just like the poem, we as readers seem to use a single line to try and find a clue… I see us doing the same with a single comment, quote, Q&A… picking out one to force-fit a conclusion.

          I personally lean to understand the connections as a whole. So when I see four remaining states as the search area, I mentally remove the Mankind’s involvements, and look at the natural area. One reason why I don’t like using names of places… but that’s just me.

          What say you….

          Sorry for the long post.

      • I ask this question because all of the solves I read have some sort history to them and at lest one clue that is based on history. What I think is, how could you not? History is all around us. The chest might become a piece of history. The places Forrest holds dear seem to have a lot to do with history. Maybe its time for me to take a class in geography.

        • I would find it hard to match history to the place that seems dear to fenn, as we just don’t know where that place is yet. So honestly I can’t rule out the possibility. I personally just don’t lean towards it [ history ] from what I read in his responses.

          Lets look at it this way for a moment… We know the Chest is in the Mountains North of SF. Now fenn has stated RM’s. Is that something we should have figure out on our own? And are the RM’s any part of History? or is the history, what we do in them or with them… create roads, dams etc.

          It rained yesterday, is that a part of history just because we as humans keep track of rainfall and use radar tracking to warn of potential bad weather, or keep track of water supply in reservoirs ? or did it just rain.

          Fenn stated he is more an environmentalist then most, His church is in the mountains, dreams and fantasies are the river bottoms. These words don’t remind me of history as much as geography. All I’m saying is, I wonder if we try too hard to force what we have been through [ history / record keeping}, and not see the world around us. Add in 100 year or a 1000 years, Add in people like Osbourne and Meek who traveled virgin lands, Add in no special knowledge, such as being a pilot etc. A pattern appears in my eyes… and history just doesn’t seem to fit what I hear or listen to when fenn makes these comments…

          Just food for thought. But don’t go by what I think, yesterday I put a shoe on my left foot and a sneaker on my right foot.

          • I once heard fenn say you must think a certain way, or something like that. I believe discussions like this help us with thinking the way fenn intended to solve the poem. “We know the Chest is in the Mountains North of SF. Now fenn has stated RM’s. Is that something we should have figure out on our own?” So seeker are you trying to say the place that forrest went “in there” is the RM?

          • Yes… Yet other than hiding the chest, I think we need to understand that in order to read the poem.

          • If one clue takes you to more than one location is it more than one clue? Example: Xxx peak is found within the poem, but at xxx peak you find xxx river which takes you too peak basin etc.

            1 clue or 3?

          • Forrest did say that he (paraphrasing) wishes he was born over a hundred years before he was. I don’t have the exact words.
            That’s telling of history.

          • Uken,

            That’s the million dollar question.

            If one see a step by step, the conclusion might be 3. If one reads as hints that results in a clue, then 1.

            If I told this riddle,

            There is a game.

            If you’re good at it you can become a pro and make a lot of money.

            Most schools play this game.

            And a little hint to help, the game starts with a “T”.

            How many clues are there?

            The answer is one.. The game of Golf. Golf is the clue.

            Now add I’m tired and weak. end is Ever drawing many clues? 2 – 3
            The answer is one. Electrigolf cart.

            Why an electric Golf cart… Because you needed to know the game of golf first… Without it… You have no chance to understand the actual final clues.

            Sorry for the lousy example but I think you get my gist.

          • Seeker,
            I hear ya. I see lines or stanzas being dependent on one another in order to progress. But I am only partly through the poem. I have found prices of my clue unfolded on the location. Say my clue is bear tooth derived from owl, hit, ball. Owl=hooter, hit ball=bat. Anagram bat and hooter= bear tooth.
            Then I go to a topo (creation of my imagination, not real) and find Beartooth Mt, and hoot canyon, vampire ravine, Strike mine, bear cavern and Molar butte ;-). This is an exaggerated explanation. I have been finding a portion of this and think it as confirmations.
            Hope this makes sense

          • Makes one wonder If fenn has a way to understand what a clue is within the poem, with all the commas one would think it would help, but that might be too easy.

          • Count,

            Commas and periods can drive ya nuts. I even tried Morse Code once, All I could spell out was… “I’m an idiot for even trying” Hint? clue? you decide…lol.
            I try to use them just as you would anything else you would read, a pause, a stop, a continuation, a new start, 9 sentences…
            The semicolon I can see has useful or maybe a hint. What that seems to do is connect two sentences into one meaning or talking about the same thing. As well as, semi meaning 1/2. Is there a reason for something we should know to be 1/2 of? Is stanza 3 four clues? or two sentences, or two meanings/hints that lead to one clue?

            All these questions and more I think about in the attempt to read the poem as intended…and that is just one stanza… just need to know how fenn intended the poem to be read.

            Just for fun… another thought came to mind that, the poem is straightforwards, are the clues derived from twisting all the words or example, all synonyms maybe… to create the correct answers [ words ] to read the poem entirely as the answer[s]?
            LOL, that would take about 15 years to decipher.

            Fenn did say, he doesn’t use words that aren’t in the dictionary and those that are he blends…

            My attempt is now to understand the first clue[s] and why. hopefully that will explain the poem correctly and explain why searcher went pass all the others. My present line of thought is, clue one is the resting place. The others describe what it’s all about.

    • The Count –

      Your question is a good one…..and if you accept any answer other than – who knows….you may be treading down the wrong path. I believe history of the area is a very good thing…… could it not be? Where ever the clues take you – go….explore with everything you’ve got available to you.

      Now, when someone says no special knowledge needed…does that mean before you started the chase – who knows. I would much rather find everything involved and say I gave it 100 percent in the end – than dismiss something and in the end – say dang I over looked that – because someone told me it was not important. That statement holds true for what many searchers have directed in the past. Don’t listen to anyone other than yourself. Go for all the gusto……….

      • All this time I thought fenn knew… I would hope that by his answers to those question, we should be listening.

        • I try listening very hard, but my hearings not so good anymore and it seems he never gives a answer I’m listening for. Occasionally there is a tentacle of information that escapes the smoke screen, that originates from his fiery blaze of knowledge.IMO

  77. A wee bit off topic…
    December 7, Pear Harbor Day. Remember!

    Ok, 8 clues plus the last 1. The last one, imo, is just as important as the first 8, MD.

    • And the 7 in between,are as important as the first and last. Anything less then 100% on this test does not equate to a passing grade.IMO

      • Amy…creep on!
        JL, I agree 100%. We should focus on every word. Nothing should be discredited!
        I’m working on a “different angle” to solving the puzzle. Haven’t seen anyone trying it. This is where imagination comes into play!
        If I find an “aha” moment, I will share.
        ¥Peace ¥

        • “aha” moment, when you have nine of them you are well on your way, but then you just stand around with marvel gaze and wonder if you have an over active imagination, or even worse start to question your sanity.IMO

          • Wait! whaat? Who said anything about having to be sane? I’m never gonna find this dang chest if I have to have all my marbles.

    • Question posted 7/4/2014:

      Forrest, What’s the minimum number of clues that we need to solve to find the treasure, assuming that we follow the clues in order? `Serge Teteblanche

      Just one Serge, the last one.f

      • Last clue, IMO…
        It’s a command, directional and a final destination all rolled into one clue, which results in possession of the treasure! The “last” clue.
        Stay warm.

        • 1st clue lines 1&2 overall location as well as a dialing in after you get there. After all, f went in there. There is where he went right? Line 3&4 second clue. These work nicely but I am not yet in the four states….

          • Uken2it,

            If I’m reading you correctly… a couple things come to mind.
            Why do you need to be in a “state[s]” when your “in there”? what are you in? Don’t answer that second part.
            And, Where you are… may just be in the state[s]. Just not the conventional way of thinking.

            I have a slightly different take on your clues to mine… you use the first four lines as clues 1 and 2. I use the first two stanzas as to guide me to a place.
            I know that is not how most read into the poem. Mainly because I see the poem as mostly hints that develop into a clue.

            That could be my down fall… so take it as you wish.

          • Seeker,
            I am ok being outside of the states. It was more an FYI. My clues so far rely on each other. That is line 1 is required to complete line 2. Line 2&3 create a clue but also separately create clues. On GE these clues or hints are fulfilled more than once. I have not gotten very far in the poem yet though.

            Another thought has been that the poem is not circular. Might be 9 clues to get to an area, then same 9 clues are needed again. Or 9 clues lead you to a place/name clues you to the actual starting place. Kind of similar but different.

  78. Dang. Meant to edit the address so as to make it less prone to being picked up by web crawlers. Delete the post goofy if best

  79. I will toss out a couple of my WWWH solves that showed promise, but then got confusing! I even flew out to one only to have it snow the night before (1 foot of snow on the ground!). Could not continue the search! If you guys can do anything with these, please remember me! 😉

    1) WWWH: CRIPPLE CREEK, CO (halt=cripple, waters freeze here – very cold)
    2) WWWH: Truth or Consequences, NM (warm waters of lies, tears)

    • I’m guessing you went to Cripple Creek, I don’t think NM got that kind of snow recently. How was it in Cripple Creek?

  80. I wrote Forrest about this… Cripple Creek is such a great solve…head down the mountain canyon and you’ll see what I mean. If it isn’t correct.. It should be! You’ll find a mountain top where the treasure is “wet”. I would want to lay my bones here as well.

    • Sorry, cut off reply…
      Meant Chris. I feel the whole thing, start, clues and Indulgence is North of Santa Fe.
      If you work it with the belief that just chest is N. Of S.F., then draw a circle 8.25 miles in circumference north of S.F. starting at 270 deg to 90 deg and put your “x ” on the line for the treasure! F said it was more than 8 miles north of S.F…..
      Sorry, just being stupid for a sec.
      But seriously, it’s in the RM’s, not S.F.

      • Hey Becky… I don’t believe that WWWH needs to be anywhere near the box location because I don’t believe it’s a literal correlation in quite the same way others may. Of course I could be wrong 😉

  81. Becky, lol, I feel ya! I’m having one of those days, too.
    I think the reason we will all be surprised at the exciting, reverent, respectful place…is that it holds fond memories for F, which he stated. When you have a fondness of heart, it becomes metaphorical also. Respectful also points to a metaphysical location. What is metaphysical to one person (F), may not be to another.
    That being said, F said his church was the mountains. That’s spiritual.
    I see the location halfway up a mt, like F said, “I didn’t say it wasn’t half way up the mountain.”
    In Indian lore, Coyote often stated the obvious, but because of his reputation for trickery, no one looked at his words as the truth, thus hiding in plain sight. Coyote didnt have to remember any lies or trickery, just the truth. Could our beloved F be as wiley? Could he really mean what he says and we are looking too hard for a hidden message not there?
    I feel this is what F means by the poem being straight forward, we just have to figure out the riddle in each clue. Which definition did he use, strung all together, to get the answer?
    I hear you chortling to yourself, F!
    《Disclaimer…Some facts and some opinion》
    My brain hurts!

      • It was more like this IMO, in a video interview. I will look for it for you. “The treasure chest is not on top of a mountain, pause (f devilish playful grin) but it may be near/ close to the top”.

        • Thank you Ches,
          I could not find the quote using multiple search options, maybe you could please give the link seeing you know where it is.

          • I amworkingwithaphoneandnot veryfamiliar withhowtocopyandpaste. ItisonyoutubeI believe. SearchForrest FennMysteriousWritingsandthat date, shouldcomeup. Hopethishelps.

          • “I’ll tell you that it’s not on a top of any mountain. That’s a big clue ’cause there’s lots of mountains out there…it may be close to the top…”

            Transcript; Toby’s video. Check his website below or Selected quotes transcribed from FF Event at CW ~ type in search engine.

  82. May I ask, what is it that decides when a new 9 clues thread is started?

    Is there something specific that determines the thread to be closed? (Number of comments or a day or date?)
    Thank you!

    • I think Goofy or Dal said when there was so many comments, or the length of it…some type of computer gobble gook. But not date or day.

        • I’m such a smart aleck/ heckler sometimes! I wonder if WWWH could be under a bridge that searchers have driven across and that is why ff can say some have been within 200 feet and didn’t know it or went on by…..IMO.

    • When comments exceed 700 or so, it slows the loading… so they spin a new thread on the wheeel! 🙂

    • hammer-
      When loading the post slows down significantly or when someone asks us too because it’s running slow or when we remember to…600-700 comments seems to be the point at which the post slows meaningfully so that is the point at which we try to start a new one. The old ones are always available in the Nine Clues Archive. You can read them but you can’t comment on them…but all the original comments are still with them.

  83. Okay I just wondered, because some threads ended with 400 or so comments and then others with 1100 or so comments. Maybe its a data number that is the factor. Just curious, as I progress with my solve. Forrest stated he thought of everything, so I am trying to think of everything too. 🙂

    Thank you!

  84. Why does he state x troy pounds? I thought troy measurement was in ounces only for gold. Any way, I guess I never got the last clue #9. I gave it a few tries. Gave the solution to those in control of the property/land and never heard from Chose another media venue. Happy Holidays and good preparation for 2016 searching to all!

  85. My search area looks like an ear on GE? Do you think that might be what Mr. Fenn meant by “So hear me all and listen good?” It could also be a ribbon or a wheel or literally a BULLSEYE. There is also a fox holding a bowler hat. I would make a joke but foxes holding hats are no laughing matter. It could be interpreted as an insult to the fox…and I would NEVER (bold and in blinking color) intentionally disrespect a fox with a hat. Hopefully that is clear to anyone who may be wondering…particularly any foxes (with hats).

  86. Let me clarify my previous posts to all that care. All of the following is IMO… I have figured out the Blaze…the trail to the location described in Fenn’s poem. There are numerous confirmations Fenn gives in order to give confidence. I have solved the first clue. I have identified the location in the poem of the other eight clues….and I “solved” them to take me to a very specific spot. That spot may or may not be the correct one…but my search location is ABSOLUETLY correct..imo…now I just have to correctly interpret the clues given to find the chest at my location….the blaze is the trail to the hidey spot…none of the lines from WWWH to the blaze are clues…So now I have provided content for your consideration….all of you doubters can take it or leave it. I am done with the negativity on this blog…most people are just here to poke holes in the confidence of others and tell them how wrong they are, when they don’t even have clue one nailed down…they should stay home and play canasta, and let those of us that are serious continue the quest undeterred by their slimy negative remarks. ALL IS IMO…Have a nice life…I MAY return if/when I do find it…and I will continue to read on occasion….but the naysaying is wearing me out.
    So bye for now.

    • michael d, hunch here. i feel your pain brother. ya know what wears me out? hiking. walking around in bad shoes on rocks my feet is killing me. what i wouldnt give for a tub of warm water to soak em in. or maybe a warm blazing fire to radiate heat. see ya around pal.

    • Hey Michael…… I’d be interested to know what (approximately) your Blaze is? Just interested to see if it’s similar to mine…. and perhaps if others have the same Blaze answer. I don’t expect you say exactly.. but if you said it in a riddle, I think I’d understand.

      -Chris G

  87. And one last thing….The person that finds the chest will be someone like me, that has had ALOT of wrong ideas, and has gone with CONFIDENCE many times, and not given up. Then, one day, the idea will be the CORRECT one, and off that person will go, to find the chest. It won’t be some couch potato that hasn’t even gone out and tested their theories. IMO again…

    • Michael D,
      Yes, I believe you are correct. The person who finds it will have had some failures. Don’t be frustrated because your last rip didn’t produce the chest. Look at it as a learning experience. I’m sure you came way with some more ideas, apply them and try again but have fun in the process. I find I can actually concentrate on the clues better when I’m hiking around, I don’t have to be in search mode. Hiking helps clear my mind of all the cobwebs.IMO

    • Michael, I think you’re right about that. Until you’ve been out there, you can’t really imagine how difficult the task is. I also think that it takes a few trips being wrong before you can start to really appreciate what the poem’s telling you.

    • I don’t know whether you’ve solved it or not, Michael, but you do have a lot of spunk. You’re getting out there, taking a chance, and exposing yourself to all the potential criticism that comes with this crazy Chase. That at the very least is worth something. My advice (if you care): be cautious in the things you are certain of, but never let the bastards get you down.

    • Michael,
      I was disappointed that you have chosen to not post for awhile. I understand though I have done the same thing when I get upset or whatever. But I may change my mind about you now (just in fun mind you) since I have had no bog yet. I am ok with this since I have no confident solve yet.

      But I have enjoyment in this chase and invested time and a few bucks for books. Travel is expensive and age and health a deterrent but some live close to the area and get out with bog. But most of these folks don’t ;^P at me. So here I give you a bowl of raspberries

      Hope you come back soon and perhaps with the chest.

    • Well Mike, if being wrong is a prerequisite for finding the chest I should be way up on the list. I’ve got lots and lots and lots of wrong spots. I remember my first solution back in the stone age of the chase. I was excited; actually my wife was excited about my solution and it infected me. All the clues fit, it was imaginative, but there was one problem; it was in Santa Fe.

      This was way back before his 8.25 miles statement. My wife said it has to be right; it fits perfectly. I ask her what about “north” of Santa Fe is so hard to understand. She said he didn’t say Santa Fe, New Mexico (this was also before he confirmed it was Santa Fe New Mexico he was talking about). Of course it wasn’t there.

      I had another solution she was absolutely certain was correct. All I had to do was go to the spot, find the blaze, and pick up the chest. She started making my sandwich and brewing the coffee to fill my old thermos. She couldn’t believe I wasn’t leaving right then. I told her I would check it the next time I had a job close to there.

      She was almost beside herself for a month until the next job came along. She said lets go get that chest. I said, well dear that job location is not very close to the spot; it’s over 400 miles of winding back roads to get there and if the long range forecast is correct we’ll probably hit some bad weather. She said, that’s nothing you can’t handle; get off your rear end and load the truck we’re burning day light; and started getting my old thermos ready.

      I tried one more time. I said well dear, you know all the reasons why that’s a good spot, do you want me to tell you what doesn’t fit? Her answer was an emphatic NO!!. I knew there was no need arguing and loaded her OMG pack in the truck and off we went. It wasn’t there; but it is a joy watching her get so excited and exuberant. Gold does strange things to folks.

      As far as your negativity statement; we weren’t being negative about your solution, we were being negative about your arrogance. You didn’t say anything about your solution, you said you were unequivocally, not an opinion, correct. If you are too thin skinned about your solution for constructive criticism that’s fine, don’t post it. But don’t waste our time with your arrogance.

      Good hunting.

    • Michael, I agree with your description of the kind of person who will find this. It’s trial and error of testing one potential interpretation after another, knowing when to look harder in one spot, knowing when to move on. Having confidence you could be the one, but tempering that confidence with an appreciation for where the search takes you regardless of whether there is the chest at the end of not. Where we don’t see eye to eye is that I don’t think you have anything to prove here and trying to with the kind of definitive tone you’ve been putting out there just doesn’t come across well. If you’re convinced you’ve found it that’s great. However making these types of definitive and absolute statements usually comes from a place of seeking validation or attempting intimidation. I don’t think you mean to do the latter and shouldn’t really be in the place where you need the former.

      • I can say that better: In my opinion, any and all can look for Forrest Fenn’s gold. It’s an open invitation. But he specifically *challenged* the bold to come and look for it. That’s the invitation I read in the book. You’ve got to be in it to win it, and if canasta is hiking through the mountains looking for a chest of gold, well, that’s a game that’s worth playing no matter the outcome. No one wins sitting at home thinking about it.

        I admit, I read your post as taunting, Michael. I’ve changed my opinion. Good luck in your search.

        • Jeremy, Ya said; No one wins sitting at home ‘thinking’ about it.

          “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

          “The person that finds it, is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.” 

          “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f”

          Why can’t someone figure out all they need to know Before leaving on a searcher?

          Serious Question… Not a sarcastic response. 

          • At some point you need to test the hypothesis, and that’s when reality bites – hard! Theoretically, you should be able to work it out at home, but as many of us have found, what seemed like the perfect solution vaporizes with boots on the ground.

          • Seeker,
            Who says you cant? Probably just as good a chance as searching for it.But I asked on the odds and ends what would make someone certain that they have the perfect solve. But alas not much of a response. IMO

          • You’re asking a guy who’s seen too many movies. In every one of them, things only fall into place at the location. It doesn’t matter if it’s the old serials Fenn grew up with, or the Indiana Jones films I grew up with, or any of the others. They’re all the same. The hero arrives at the place, has an aha! moment, solves the clues, and finds the goods. It’s just the way it goes. I don’t personally see why this treasure hunt is any different.

            In all seriousness, though, I do think this can be inferred by the nature of the challenge and his comments that came after. Maybe you can get a sense of what to expect before leaving (I sure hope so), but I feel important parts of the solving is going to be with boots on the ground.

          • I can add: For one thing, Google Earth does lie. You don’t know until you get there (at least for certain) whether a place is accessible for a 79-80 year old man.

          • Voxpops,

            Nothing wrong with testing… I just don’t understand when some say you can’t solve the clues at home… or beforehand.
            Sure, the only way the chest will be ‘recovered’ is by going, and by going should you not have been able to full solve the poem before?

            I mean how many time does one need to go before they say… I need to do more work on this poem? Is many fail attempt the only way one will know they are correct, that seems counter productive in my book. Some folks here, and I applaud them, go into the fast beauty of these areas for the sure pleasures, and enjoy looking for clues and the treasure.

            Others spend little Johnny’s college fun, and a second mortgage…” just” to search. Where the logic in solving the clues when the cost hits double and triple digits?

            There would be only one reason,imo for it not being able to solve beforehand, something in the field needs to be done to finish. excluding the recovery of the chest. Not being familiar with the area could slow one down, yet not need to be known.

            It’s always been a curiosity to me why some folks believe, the more they go out the better their chances are over someone who studies and plans at home beforehand.
            “Precisely” seems pretty accurate to me.

          • Jeremy,

            I’m not talking about what to expect… Any and all should plan any trip and get as much info as they can about the area.

            I’m talking about a ‘solution’ from start to finish. With the thought of “what took me so long” as the confidence to go look Before.

          • JL,

            Yep good question, My only response is a solve that says to me “what took me so long” That’s why I take many hours to dissect a solve… yet confidence is not fact and neither is searching unless it produces the find… failed attempt is not a confidence builder, just a reality check.

            IS there a reason the poem can’t be solve before is my question… because I would like to know if some think something needs to be done in the field that “can’t” be done prior. That is the reason for my question.

          • Seeker, So what you are saying is that if the solve came to you quick and easy that you wouldn’t be confident in it. That you want to work a long time to find a solve that is simple and should have been quick and easy for you to be confident? Correct?
            I think the poem can be solved to the point that you should be at the spot where you can see what you are looking for, but what you are looking for wont have a sign saying ff treasure chest located here, please do not recover until 3010. imo

          • Seeker – I think there are many reasons that can explain why this is proving to be so difficult to solve, f intended it to be that way. His recent statement during a radio interview about finding the chest is not so much about doing a lot of research, but just thinking the right way says a lot. Maybe it can be all figured out before hand; the probability of it seems to be approaching the statistic of getting struck by lightning though.

            I think f has made it pretty clear that “a word that is key” is critical to breaking through and solving this ambiguous collection of words that can mean so many different things. At least one person has figured it out to some extent, yet the chest still sits at its resting place. Is it because that person(s) is/are unable to go out and search and find it? Is it that what f thought would be the winning step and required right thinking with “a word that is key” proving to not play out like he thought it might?

            There are as many reasons that could be contrived as there are solutions to the poem.

            Ultimately, it is going to be about a person who has the determination to keep at it until they arrive at that specific spot. Searchers have been getting within several hundred feet of it since at least the second summer of this adventure, so someone is going to get it eventually, they will just have to think the right way, figure out what the clues actually are, and what they mean; whatever that process is.

          • JL,

            Neither quick or simple < not a KiSS advocate.
            I think once the entire poem is known, it will be a Dang that was clever, how come I didn't think of that before. I keep thinking we're missing something something that will say… as fenn put's it, "what took me so long". That something is not going to be easy to see, just easy to overlook. imo

          • JCM.

            [Now I know how Loco felt, that was a long ladder climb].

            Agree, Fenn imo didn’t want this to be easy… some say fenn wants it to be found in his life time and this was meant for a out of work Texan with 12 kids and a pick-up..I can’t disagree more.
            Fenn stated this was to influence generations to come, The Texan was just imo a family grouping to explore together. people took the ‘to get kids out from behind electronic gadgets’ too literally. He intended and thought and planned for a 100, a 1000 and even 10,000 years down the road.

            I also come to that conclusion as to some of the Items in the chest. His bio that, as he said, would explain what it was like in this time and why he did this, The hair sample, and things in the chest that seem to tell a story of our own past… [ our last few thousand years ]

            That doesn’t mean we [ this generation doesn’t have the same chance, But his intent seem to be influencing the next and the next generations of chasers. So imo the clues would and should reflect that planning process.

            One of the reason for my Glacial period theory, and how the clues fit.

          • Seeker,
            FF intended for this to last many years, and I agree that there is more to it then getting this generation off the couch. This is just a way for FF to draw people in. I think FF tries real hard to come off as the country bumpkin.

            My interpretation of the clues that I think I know is there is more then one interpretation, we are given every opportunity to select the correct answer, but for every correct answer there is also an opportunity for a wrong answer, maybe more then one. Its like a multiple choice but all the correct answers are so close to the wrong answer it’s hard to pick. If your interpretation is off the slightness you chose the wrong path and there is no way to get a correct answer after you got the first wrong answer. This continues all the way to the end. If you get eight clues right you still have the opportunity to pick a wrong answer that leads away instead of towards.

          • JL, that’s why I made a treasure hunt that will come out this summer on the Chase blogs. With multiple codes for each of the six dials on the cryptex that adds up to a big multiple choice type solution like you said. It will be a great exercise to dive into to get an appreciation for Forrest’s poem clues.

    • Michael D? I didn’t hear the door shut. Have you left hoD yet? I’m curious… Did I miss your mention as to when you’re leaving/planning to search? I don’t like being kept in suspense. Anywho, If you see this… Good Luck and Happy Trails…

    There is a new page with information about next spring’s Fennboree. It’s in the planning stage right now with Sasha and Cynthia taking the lead. It should be quite the gathering. They are looking for ideas from all of us.
    The link can be found at the very top of the page directly underneath the header photo…look for the tab that reads “Fennboree 2016”.

  89. I enjoy the logic here…..everyone is anticipating spring to go find Indulgence. If I have read the poem correctly, and listened to the hints…. it is going to take some time with boots on the ground to locate it. So bear with me here. Above 5000 feet and below 10, 200 feet elevation. They have snow in a lot of those places now. Given the statement that he knew the chest was wet… spring RM snow melt must be a factor. So if we wanna play detective, where could this all factor in? I doubt he is misleading anyone with any statements made, on the contrary, I seriously think he would like to see it done soon so he could see it and have his bracelet back.

  90. Michael, those of us with years researching & searching have had plenty of “I’ve paid my dues now why do I have disappointment instead of the treasure? ” moments. I make it a point not to crow so I don’t have to eat crow but these many disappointments are crow enough. You’re of course right about diligence winning the day, but In my opinion this chase is a wonderful, exciting hobby/quest that offers lifelong treasured memories which is the true gift of the Maggi Fenn. The weather was dry and warm today in Santa Fe so I drove over to Ortiz Mtn to gold prospect. After spending 5 hours with my metal detector up and down gullies, and finding nada, it re-enforced my feeling that looking for the tc may be poor odds but the pay-off exceeds all others.

  91. The following is my opinion. It has been said that the clues to the poem have to be followed precisely. Like the number 1, then number 2, then number 3 etc. We have not found the treasure because we want to solve the clues however it makes sense to us. The searcher has to be confident about where to start. One cannot lead the way if the person does not know where she, or he is going. Let the poem guide you, not the other way around.There are some of us ignoring the first clue, and skipping to number 2, or 3, or 4. If the individual is not sure about the starting point the chase will be useless. The second clue is useless without the first one. This is all my opinion.RC

    • RC,

      This sound like the reverse engineering Q&A: Question posted 7/2/2014:
      Do you think that someone who is sure about the location of the home of Brown could reverse-engineer where warm waters halt? ~Ben Raylor
      Thanks for the question Ben.
      If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt? But to answer your question, sure you could and a few searchers might throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take. Good luck.f
      If you have the first clue that leads to the second and so on, Then apparently, once a clue is ‘fully’ understood, it is not longer needed or necessary. At least that is the way I’m reading into it. Fenn has made many comments regarding the first clue [ whatever one believe that to be ]. So I agree with the first clue is a must, the question is Why?

      Is it as simple as “just” the correct starting point? Like making a cake, you need the first step to continue, and then no longer necessary because its use is done.
      Or is it important, because it is the main ingredient and without it, you don’t know what you’re making? such as meatloaf.
      I’m not a baker or a chef but follow my line of thinking… a cake needs all the ingredients together to produce a final product… yet a meatloaf needs the main ingredient with the correct added stuff to make the final product or otherwise you just have a burger. Cheese 25cents extra…

      • If you have not solved the first clue correctly, you may as well stay home and play Canasta. In my findings this game is not very far off of the starting point. But reserve the right to decline any further comment as to my find. All IMO.

          • I am going to touch the cake anology. Let’s say we are in one of those reality baking shows. You choose your favorite show. The chef tells us to read the recipe(the poem), and follow it exactly as it is written. We just have to do what it says to win the contest. I see most of us skipping step 1. We are going straight to step 2, or 3, or 4 because “we know better” and the cake will taste better. We have the experience necessary to make a “better” cake. At the end of the show no one wins because we did not follow the steps systematically. The problem here is that we assume the cake will taste better if we do it our way. The wise person will bake the cake as it is in the recipe, and eat it too. My opinion.RC

      • My assumption is that the first clue is the starting point. But I do not know if it is a state, a mountain, a national forest or a city. I remember reading a post that says, the starting point is in the poem right in our faces.

        I am also assuming that the poem is his rainbow and the treasure is at the end – the word “gold” at the end of the poem – so maybe the start of the rainbow is the word “As”.

        • UA, to use ff’s terminology “precisely” – when I look “precisely” at the end of the poem…I give you title to the gold. There is nothing but a period and promise of a title to the gold.

          At the end of the poem I don’t read ‘I give you the treasure, or indulgence, or the gold.’ I read fenn gives you a title to the gold. We all assume he means the treasure box filled with gold, but IMO that’s not what the last line of his poem states.

          Precisely carries an older meaning of cutting or slicing into small exact pieces (perhaps letters or directions)

          I no longer search, but maybe someone else can benefit from looking more precisely at the poems letters, vowels, and matching to alpha-numeric place value.

          • Lia, In my interpretation of the last stanza gives a bigger picture of how the Poem is laid out. To me, it relates to a word in the first stanza. I am still trying to understand what the Poem is trying to tell me with all the clues I have figured out. Just my thoughts nothing more, I am still working on the first line. No more traveling for awhile. Trying to drum up some gas money. IMO

            An Indian Scout and a Saint

      • Seeker (and others),

        To truly “reverse engineer” something/anything you must have the end “product” from with which you can dismantle to do the reverse engineering from. Being that none of us as of yet has picked up Indulgence in the wood, none of us can “reverse engineer” back through any of the nine clues, in my opinion.

        I suspect Mr. Fenn was kind of “pulling the leg” of Ben Raylor because he designed the puzzle and knows full well that if a searcher “jumps into the middle” of the solve, that searcher wouldn’t need to go back to the beginning, but simply “pick up the trail” and follow it to it’s obvious end – Indulgence. Reverse engineering at the point of pick up would be a waste of time.

        Not sure these two paragraphs above fully flesh out my thoughts this late in the evening, but I trust you get the gist of the logic involved.

        • What if you look for a place in which you think Forrest and/or yourself would like to lay to rest forever, that would be special, within a couple of miles from parking, a beautiful forest setting, a creek, mountains, animals & lets not forget the wonderful smell of pines.
          What if you watched his videos, listened to the audios, read his posts, read his books & noted all the places he has mentioned in TTOTC & TFTW.
          I think you would come to a logical conclusion that the treasure chest would be somewhere near West Yellowstone IMO.
          So if we have found this place, we can reverse engineer & forward engineer because we don’t think it would be in West Yellowstone, so I think we would be starting somewhere in the middle of the clues in the poem.
          I think I know where the end “product” is fictionally, based upon all the research we see the TC is located in a 1600 square mile area where only a couple of these things exist according to a good map from the Forest Service USDA there is only one. Maybe they should rename it Forrest Service.
          I would have to say that is very rare & special considering the vastness of this area.
          Now you know that special spot in your mind.
          Lets reverse engineer to see if we can find other clues in the poem going backwards. We didn’t find the blaze, if we did it would be game over. We think we know now what “Just heavy loads and water high” means. We have the creek now after reverse engineering. We want to see if all this leads to the first clue in the poem which I believe to be Forrest’s bathing area.
          Your going to have to pull your dingy out of the Madison to know the next clue.
          I am not sure if trapping or hunting is allowed in Yellowstone NP.
          HOB is a flip of a coin, preferably a buffalo nickel.
          Up the Firehole Canyon to Ojo.

          I know, I don’t have the end “product” but we do have an imagination!

    • RC,

      I do believe I like you! 🙂

      “The second clue is useless without the first one.” — I’ll bet Forrest wishes he had said that!!

      (and, I like this one also: If the individual is not sure about the starting point the chase will be useless.) 🙂

      You appear to be one of the few who might understand the “why”. But, not to worry. Searchers do not listen to Forrest, so I have no doubt that they will not listen to you or I.

      Good Luck to Ya!

      • First two clues… Why in the comments, fenn talks about the first ‘two’ clues, yet points out the first clue importance?

        I have wondered, could the first clue [ even though a place ] not be know correctly without the second clue [ an understanding of that place ].
        Maybe, only one is a place [ as in a spot or small location ].
        To understand the first clue[s], are we looking for a small area or even a pinpoint location or can it be a much larger area yet, maybe a well understood location?

        Maybe I should be asking, If size matters….?
        Tread softly on that question loco. lol

        • “Maybe I should be asking, If size matters….?”

          OMG!! “Old Yeller”, I cannot believe you gave me an opening LIKE that!!

          Ohhh, the remarks that could be made are mind-boggling. However, in the interest of maintaining the atmosphere here and, I feel it might be in my best interest (Goofy prolly got a finger on the button, waiting 🙂 ), I will regretfully decline to take advantage of such and wait for a more opportune time.

          Dang, the fun I could have if we were still at the less genteel place!! 🙂 🙂

          Oh, we’re on nine clues……if you consider the implications of his “only one, the last on” statement and what the last clue must be….. then you will understand “what” the first clue is (IMO and the solve I’m currently pursuing)


    • “The second clue is useless without the first one.”

      Uh, beggin’ the Colonel’s pardon (does anyone remember The World of Commander McBride?):

      Forrest, What’s the minimum number of clues that we need to solve to find the treasure, assuming that we follow the clues in order? `Serge Teteblanche

      Just one Serge, the last one.f

  92. If a searcher doubts her, or his solve is because she or he is wrong about it. There is no room for guessing in the chase. Of course nobody can be sure 100% of their solve until they find the chest, but can a person be sure in the upper 90’s, or even 99% sure? I do believe the answer is yes. I wish I could say it is a fact, but then I would have to explain myself, so I am saying it is my opinion, and my opinion only.RC

    • Voxpops,

      No RC does not, Only his solution IMO.
      One can still solve the 9 clues, but still come up empty handed.

      Still eating Crow Pie.

    • I know it’s your opinion but after a few failed results I think you tend to doubt yourself when you discover another solve. I think you could actually be right about your solve, but in the back of your mind you have your doubts like I do now even though my new solve matches the clues in the poem to a T.

    • IMO there are different ways to achieve 100% confidence in solving Forrest’s poem clues. There’s the hard way in finding the tc. Then there’s the easier way which involves solving the poem using logic and imagination.

      • fundamentaldesign,
        Sorry, but I cant follow that train of thought, they are not the same, but separate. Knowledge and imagination to solve. Then the hard way as in searching, I think you are saying?
        I am skeptical of a 100% solve, that would not involve some type of search.

        This would mean that a person would say, oh i get it, drive out to point a, walk to point b, pick up chest. Return, game over. I just cant see that happening. IMO

        • Maybe you haven’t imagined a word that is key that unlocks the blaze so when you get to the correct immediate area you already know what the blaze is…metal detect or whatever and game over.

          Maybe there’s a major reason why the word that is key/keyword was hidden from the public for years because it’s more powerful than many can imagine or come up with using logic…IMO.

    • In all the searches I have gone on, I have never said or thought to myself, “I am 93% sure I am correct” or “I am 100% sure I am correct.” There is no mathematical model that can determine a % of sureness in a solution to this chase.

      You just try to work something out, convince (or is it delude) yourself, and then become confident enough in your solution that you are then willing to plunk down the money and put it to the test. Confidence is a function of how strongly we feel about something being true or correct. Some things in life we can be very certain and know for fact it is correct, however, the poems’ solution is not one of them.

      Look at how different searchers approach this; those who live close by or have money that they can spend to go and search get out and search with frequency; those who have limited resources rarely or never get out. The probability that they will ever get out is very low because it is too much risk to them to spend money on something they have no true confidence in; though they hope and keep looking for something that will give them that confidence.

      Q. Do expect that people will somehow *know* for sure once they have found the first clue?
      A. No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.

      Knowing for sure and having confidence in an unproven solution will always be separate things. In finding the chest, confidence will lead to knowing (someday maybe), but one will never go out the first time, knowing for sure, before finding the chest — unless f tells you where it actually is; but I will say with 100% confidence that he won’t. 🙂

      • As good as your thoughts are on confidence and knowing for sure before you search there is one approach you haven’t mentioned and no one mentions.

        • Put it another way…how many of the many searchers that got the first clue (even though they didn’t know it) knew the word that is key. If none of them then what if they did? Things could be different IMO.

  93. All IMO.

    The first clue includes the key to unlocking the poem, the second gives you the launchpad.

  94. The approach I take on the clues are literal meanings that come from the book, and those are the hints, that help you find clues
    The thing i know about “canasta”, is that it is used alot in the book “The Catcher in the Rye”. Since forrest uses that book to describe who he is, then I can take that book as it is very important, since forrest used it as a direct reference to himself. So the catcher in the rye, somehow, could be a hint, or clue IMO.

    “As I have gone alone in there”

    I know from the book, Forrest told us about the places that he went alone. Jungle, Cemetery, His Jet maybe? His room.. etc..
    And then what i do with each line is find out the answer from the book he wrote the poem in. There were many stories in the book, before the poem even appeared. If it were not marketed as a treasure hunt before you read the book, you would have really never known that the book was about a treasure hunt until towards the end. So all the stories that lead up to the poem, most likely have hints that reflect the poem imo. He had to build each story to fit what he was trying to do. small portions of his life that coordinated with how he wrote the poem.

    The 9 clues in my opinion are not really what most of us think they might be. I think that the poem is a riddle within itself that reveals letters that appear within only 9 lines of the poem. Those letters will equal a starting point on a map somewhere that makes sense and then its on to the next clue. So what I am saying, is that the 9 clues are the first clue, if that makes any sense. lol Sorry for being a little technical with it, but that is my approach.

    I dont have a complete solve that I can just blurt out yet, but it is coming together pretty smooth..

    Thank you

    • this is an approach which makes a lot of sense. I wish I had your sense. “too far to walk” i think is across the street. – from the story of two biddies.

  95. i also believe ff has told us exactly were it is IMO . that is the only way are path could be direct. Hammer i do agree with you,sounds like your work,n my solve in progress. any thoughts on the 44 word left out of quote from (cater in rye) and has anyone come up with a good way to read hidden letters on pg 133.totc .i would like ff to read them to me. thx

  96. IMO it is a cyhper of some kind .the poem could be spot on if we knew exactly what ff meant. that is why IMO he said all you need is the poem. but if it is a code you would need (something) to decode.that is why u need the book. he even said he placed the letters in one at a time, and if he gave us is in book.IMO so what do we have? postmarks. capital letters of each would be based off of something. i dont belive it would just be random. example.keyword trails then different trails names could be hidden in poem.

    • Lee –

      You said – “he even said he placed the letters in one at a time” – could you tell me where he said that – or provide a link?

      I don’t believe it would be random either – but that would only be within the chapters themselves, as I don’t think the chapters are placed in any particular order.

      • i belive it was in youtube vidieo were he was at the bookshop. he also talked about the poem before he changed it. (take the chest but leave my bones) i think he chose the letters of each chapter very specific 11 letters in all,and in respect vidieo about half way i belive ff says take out the S.s and O.s and get out of my way. thx

  97. I always found it strange that the chapters were not numbered in some way, no index…. a preface, then IMP Lit (prologue?), then the stories begin. As I recall, (dont have the book handy) you only know where they end by the little black box mark used as a final period. Poker is part of preface, & Asterisk is part of prologue. Strange sequence… In a prior post, i said I thought that the stories of his childhood (First Grade to Stout Hearts) seemed like “warm waters”… MY WAR was a cold change. Just guessing.

    • Right on OS2 –

      There is one chapter without the little box at the end and isn’t it strange that he would place his wedding photo to go along with a war for me?

      • Well Chase, the time sequence is right, but yes a little surprising. What do you think about this… A lot of posters seem think that the first clue will identify a state or a major geographic feature for them. I don’t think that’s in Fenn’s deck of cards. And there also seems to be a strong assumption that ‘follow the clues precisely’ means ‘follow the clues in the order presented and the treasure will be at the end.’ I have doubts on that too.

        Suppose the clues are places that make a ‘connect-the-dots’ type picture on the map? Sorta like reading those famous Nazca lines from the air. A line from one dot (clue) to the next may even cross or jump over a prior line, like when you draw a 5 point star in 5 short strokes without lifting your pencil from the paper. Once you recognize the outline, you might have a pretty good guess about the location of the TC … or what the blaze looks like. Would you describe a rainbow to a blind person by its two terminal points, and leave out its arc in the air?

        You still need to ID that first clue though.

        I wanted to mention crisscrossing clue paths once before… all the book stuff on crosses, jumps, bounces, step-on-a-crack-break-your-mothers-back, 6 wet sox on a line, etc. made me think a line pattern might emerge from the clues (something simpler than Eric Sloane’s line drawings). But I got shot down by empty-handed poem purists screaming the book is useless and that we all need to think different! Why is it those over-confident guys want to tell me how the poem works, how Fenn thinks, how I should think…. But never lead by example?

        Oh, in my imaginary drawing, geographical things might play a role… a lake for an eye, a river for a smiley face, etc. Just trying to think differently.

        • Why don’t you think having a major geographical area being described by Forrest in the first clue or before in the poem is in his deck of cards?

          It’s fine to think differently but I hope since you doubt the clues are straight forward and lead precisely to the tc that you don’t eliminate that as a possibility.

          • I don’t. But I try to stay loose on everything. That first stanza seems so devoid of substance to me…is it deceptive because it is? Or because is it extremely subtle and I am missing its powerful content? Some feel it is full of numbers, and others suggest ‘new & old’ represents new and old history of New Mexico. I’m not feeling it. Just donno. I still like the ISA (As I) Lake thing I mentioned way back, but that is such an itsy-bitsy bit for a whole stanza, and ‘new&old’ doesn’t support it in any unique way that I can see.

          • Well, thinking more on it, I guess it is a pretty bold opening to name the start place in the first 3 letters and leave the rest of the stanza fallow. From the GE pics, it looks like the lake is on both sides of the road, so I guess when you are on the street-level bridge, you can say you are “in there”. I do see what looks like waterlily pads in one of the pics… do waterlilies need warm water?

          • OS2, I think it is both descriptive and extremely subtle that many are missing the powerful big picture that sets the scene for the first clue…that’s just my opinion.

            There’s been a lot of talk before and recently on one of these threads comparing the poem with a recipe for baking a cake. I think that’s pretty good. What I think is better is looking for what the recipe is serving up in the first stanza alone. I see something if you follow the recipe directions of the four lines precisely. Out pops something that is not a cake.

          • Hmmm, fundesign, I’m trying to see it thru your ears I guess…. Recipes have ingredients (nouns) and actions (verbs) … so listing the nouns in the 4 lines: I / there / treasures / I / secret / where / riches; and the verbs: have gone / can keep / hint …??? … you’re right, it ain’t cake. The CIA finesse must be in either the adjectives or etymology roots… so far its squirrel stew to me, but I’ll keep tasting it. Thanks.

        • OS2,
          I lean toward the poem purist…today. I have gone back and forth as the months/years go by. Your post it s refreshing to me, thanks. I say I lean towards poem purist for a few reasons. F is sly and often states things that can be taken in more than one way or at times clearly helpful, so I listen. I believe there are at least two clues are n the book and some hints. All one needs is the book but other things are helpful.

          How I use the poem is wide open to me and changes quite often. At one time I tried connecting dots in a wagon wheel fashion with 8 spokes creating a hub (as you described) at this moment I am solving the poem with considering the map or locations.

          I don’t know why I said all this but I do know I meant to say I appreciate hearing fresh things that create a bit of a wake up call.

          • Thanks UK, I too keep looking for that glint of sun that strikes a mirror that highlights a spiderweb with a struggling bug covered in gold dust. Good luck tracking the faint smoke signals until spring.

        • OS –

          I really like your way of thinking – sort of out of the box – and do believe it will take this kind of imagination to break the puzzle.

          I think the puzzle is done both ways. Straight forward according to the poem and with hints in the book. It’s only after you get to the end that you realize it was all in the poem in the first place. But if you don’t do it the long way – the likely hood of really finding the TC – is nil. Most want the easy way and there are no short cuts. 15 years in the planning – you bet ya he made it this way. If I gave you my coordinates today – you still could not find it – it’s the way he set it up. But, if you do if right – there are precise directions. Brilliant on his part and yes, he thought of everything. So there is your reason for not being totally a poem purest. IMO

      • hello in the chase to, hunch here. those little boxes are the square knots that tie the threads. the book is the ball of strings.

          • I hadn’t considered that missing block before (Ha! the marriage knot?), except to note that it might be an example of the humor in Fenn’s clue planting techniques … leaving out something in an otherwise continuous line or group as a way of diverting focus by attracting focus. When I look at any of the lists Fenn mentions in the book, I look twice and think thrice … what’s missing?
            I can’t say if Fenn inserted anomalies because he knew we’d be scanning for teensy details …. Judge Judy taught me that I can never say what anyone else knew, but from the git-go searchers noted the absence of Colorado from the named states in the book. Clue or distractant? Still a remaining question.

          • in the chase to- well, its obvious to me that the chapter without the square knot is not part of the ball of string. leave that one out, dont weave it into the web of lies.

          • OS and Hutch –

            Thanks for your replies……..

            Actually the one without a knot – has an “asterisk” on the following poem page.

            But how does that sound when you say it – astrick.

            The poem starts with “As” so we might have As Trick……..

            Oh boy – that’s a stretch ………….

          • Thinking the chapters as the strings, maybe the one that does not have the box at the end is the ending string. No square knot since he is not tying another to that.

  98. @wildbirder – Quite a while ago you told us how to quickly locate a certain comment or post by a specific person. I cannot remember how you said to do it. Could you please repeat the instructions once again?

    • This is off the 9 Clues Topic – Sorry. Maybe Dal wants to put this this under “Odds and Ends”… IDK. But I would like to know this also.
      I haven’t seen Wildbirder on here for a while, so it’s possible she’s halted her quest.

      Recently something unknown to me changed/corrupted something on my computer. I’m now not able to get to the “most recent comments” like I had before. I’ve made Dal and Goofy aware of this problem but haven’t been able to find a fix as of yet) Anyway, I’ve been having to use the search function for each comment I want to read. 🙁 This is taking me twice as long because the link(s) are being “truncated, cutting off” the second portion of the link that contains the path to the comment itself. It only is taking me to the top of the “topic page.”

      Here’s what I’m having to do to get to each comment: I use a Mac so I do a “command f” and a search box appears to type in what you’re searching for. (On a PC, I believe it’s a “control f” to be used.) I search by date or by name and then toggle through each occurrence to find what I’m looking for. I’d love to fix this problem if I can, so if anyone can help me find a fix, I’d certainly appreciate it!

      • There’s several RSS feed readers available for Macs and they’d work really well for keeping tabs on what are the most recent posts, and recent comments. Just toss these addresses into them and watch them work their magic:

        (For posts)

        (For comments)

        If you can’t find anything else, Safari has RSS feed reading built in. If you use Chrome (like me!), you grab this one (the free version) and it’ll do the job.

      • Wiseone-
        The Google method is:
        In the Google search window type:
        “site” followed by a colon then the site you want to search, followed by a space and the term you are searching for.
        For instance, if I wanted to search for everyplace on this blog where the term “wiseone” appears I would type the following into the search window: wiseone

        • Dal, I am not having a problem that I know of, but thanks so much for this Google education. I did not know that. I can see it as being very useful. Thanks

        • In addition to the method Dal mentioned, you can use the “advanced search” option on Google. Click on the “gear” on the upper right on the screen, and click on “advanced search”. You can search multiple sites, and set perimeters to you search as well.

        • Thank you EVERYONE for your advice and trying to help me. I probably need a new computer…. Mine is 8 years old. Archaic by today’s standards. Besides the link problem I’m having, the ever spinning rainbow wheel is there almost nonstop. Something is wrong… And I don’t see a bronze chest of gold anywhere in sight… So I’m headed to The Apple Store tomorrow. Hopefully they can figure it out. If not, I’ll walk out with a new computer. Got 2 do TTOTC!
          Thx again.

      • My ipad is experiencing a similar problem. The recent comments no longer link to the individuals comments…just the top of the page.

    • SL, I never followed through with the solve and left it in my desk. I just couldn’t get it to fit completely. Who is Malcolm and her son?

  99. in my unfinished solve the line just take the chest and go in peace. or the original just take the chest but leave my bones. add up the same, WOW . that makes me think each clue may be affected by more than one line, even if someone had found the clues. following them precisely may not be easy. im afraid ill have the solve and it will be in another language and i will circumstance \ JJ i hope you are only on a break. that line was not one of my nine thx

  100. I have approached the poem as if it were a crime to be solved. If the murderer had left us clues, and he, or she had let us know to start with the most important clue, why would we want to start somewhere else? If we follow the clues precisely, we can catch the perpetrator. He, or she says to start with the knife. Why would we want to start with anything else? That’s how I see all of this search. We do not know how to follow instructions, that’s what it is. The thing is even though some of the searchers will see this, and still say to themselves that there is a creek, a river, a lake that fits the description of the poem. All of that is nonsense. It is better for a person to fail with the first clue 100 times than fail once with the second clue for he, or she will be closer to the chest. All of this is not fact, it is merely my opinion, and only my opinion. RC.

    • RC,
      That’s a great way to approach this crime scene. First of all where was the crime committed? The crime was committed where he left the treasure, correct?
      Now you have to ask yourself why he committed it there & where is there?
      What’s his motive? Well he told us that he was terminally ill & wanted his bones to be in a place that was dear to him, also loved the area & knew where it was before he got ill. It’s a special place for him, so obviously he was there before on foot & probably flew right over it many times. I think he saw it from the ground & from the air many times. Makes sense? We know the areas he has been through his books & I believe that would disqualify Colorado. Sorry Bronco fans, it’s not in your state.
      We are left with Montana, Wyoming & New Mexico. Last I read the book, NM was a place of home & not a place for the treasure. Sorry NM you may have enchantment but the treasure is there, but not your treasure.
      Lets go to Wyoming & see if the cowboys can kick up some dust?
      Ok we got the Madison, Gibbon, Firehole to fish for trout, plus a bathing spot that doesn’t cost 50 cents. Good place to start, but we need to go where it all started in West Yellowstone don’t we? Besides, we wouldn’t have a free bathing spot if we didn’t start in WY and go to WY.
      Going back to where the crime was committed, we have a motive, we have general areas. But how can we go forward from here?
      The criminal left a poem which describes the path, weather on a river, creek, or road on how to get there, where the crime was committed.
      IMO, there was no crime here.

      • Jake, if you just had the poem, no book/no TOTC site, no autobiography of F at all, would you STILL feel your assumption on the treasure location viable?
        THAT’S how it needs to be solved.
        Taking each word in the poem, looking at it from ALL angles to solve the meaning F chose for THAT word, will be the key needed to open this mystery.
        Reciting the poem, instead of reading it, opens new doors…
        It’s not “messing with it”, it’s listening to it phonetically.
        Try it! You’d be amazed what you really hear good!

        • Donna,
          You make a good point!
          When I saw Fenn on the Today (Aug 2015?) show & learned about his treasure, I immediately went to the internet to find out more about it. I started looking at the NOAA hot springs viewer & thought I had the first clue (Ojo Caliente Firehole) without any books, but had this site.
          Well I can’t turn back time, so I guess I cannot answer the question confidently because we all cannot travel to multiple different paths in the same time frame.
          I can say one thing for sure, now after all the investigating. If all I was going with now is the poem. It certainly does lead you directly to the chest IMO. I just have to go there for my mom & get it which won’t happen till the weather is willing & my work place is OK.
          My mom, Irene really deserves the credit for discovering the location, she went up the creek & could not go any further. She solved the poem IMO. She’s 70 something (she would never tell her age) and walks 3-5 miles a day, she had a rough time in the thin air, so I think Fenn must have been in good shape.

          BTW, she didn’t do much research, no books, no TOTC sites, just Google Maps & for the fact she believed WWWH is where I said it is IMO.

          I give her all the credit in the world raising 4 boys alone when our father died when I was one. She deserves everything inside that chest, but so do allot of other people as well.

          Anyway, good luck in the search!

          • -C
            My mom thought the blaze was the waterfall it’s self. She told me after the fact she was unable to go any further. I was not with her on this trip but should have been. Her camera had broke & I wish I could have seen it. No pictures, no video, just memories kept within one persons soul & told along to others from there best recollections. I believe her & will be going with her in the summer time.
            To answer your Q, -C, I do not know what the blaze is, if I did I wouldn’t be chatting with you right now.

    • RC, I agree and that is how I am approaching it also! Being retired CID, I am always looking at things analytical/logically, I can’t help it. If 2+2=5, then it needs more dissection. Those that don’t stratigically break down the poem and throw 5’s out there all the time, will NEVER solve the mystery.
      Flexibility, ability to see things metaphorically and metaphysically will open the blinds to your mind!
      Also, having the ability to close off everything F has posted or written helps. After all, if the poem is still here 100 yrs from now, will this site still be, or copies of F’s books? NO!
      So, everything out there, except the poem, needs to be looked at as a possible distraction because “all you need is the poem. It’s straight forward.” (Paraphrased).
      Too much can be too distracting from the objective.
      《ALL IMO》

  101. Off topic. Does anyone know if there is a way to find out the official ( if there is such thing) coordinates of any given marker in a google,yahoo,mapquest,or Bing Map? Thank you, RC.

    • RC-
      With Google Maps you can click anywhere on the map and the coordinates will be displayed in a box with the name of the area. You can highlight the coordinates and copy and paste them into another document. If you click again on the map the coordinates will go away.

    • @RC…Using google you can preset the coordinates and it pops up wherever you want to check. Go to “settings”,” position “will open a window to turn on and set whether you want feet or meters..done.
      I hope this helps… 🙂

  102. Thank you Dal! I guess I did not word my question properly. For example: If Google Maps decide to place a map marker at X , and Y coordinates, how do the other search engines decide to place their own markers in, or about the same coordinates? Is their some sort of record, or do they go with the coordinates on the map, just like we do? RC.

  103. I admit to being wishy you washy, (who coined this term anyway?), when it comes to poem purism and more than nine clues, 9, 11 more? Well today I see the more. Line four: and hint=And clue/hint about riches new and old= now and then(occasionally)
    Just food for thought. May be best to keep an open mind here and there;-)

  104. I just reread the WWH thread, Part 1 … I was thinking about basins/bathtubs/sinks — places where waters halt. I’m not feeling a flowing confluence as a halt no matter how its temperature adjusts.)

    The Great Basin drains into Salt Lake– a bit of its outer rim or edge is on the WY border. In TTOTC Fenn mentions several times about learning where the edges are. There is another basin in WY where the CD splits and then comes together again. Neither of these basins were mentioned when I looked up Geography of the RM. But ‘intermontne’ basins were. Some are endorheic (waters don’t drain out), and some are drained by rivers, and some of those rivers form only in very, very wet years. Remember, its geography, not history.

    And because everything is history, I think ‘peace’ in the poem may be a sardonic history reference, not the common Go-To association. Possibly where a Peace treaty was coldly broken.

    Back to the books until the fat lady sings. Anyone old enough for that reference?

  105. Be skeptical of anyone who says they are 100 percent confident of their solution; such is not realistic, in my opinion, given the vastness of the territory and the vagueness of the poem. I try to be flexible. My best solution has 8 of the 9 clues solved. But I have no intention of assuming my interpretation of the 8 clues is correct. (I have not been to that location yet.).

    Before I depart for that location, I start over, using different ideas, different ways of interpreting the poem, resulting in new solutions. In these different solutions, WWWH may be defined differently; ditto “canyon down”, “in the wood”, and so on. Some solutions may not even include “in the wood” or other presumed clues. Why foreclose any option? I have found many locations that fit first 2 clues (depending on how I define the first one); but then, the trail goes cold; I can’t fit the third clue in. So I put that solution on back burner and move on to the next.

    The desk work is tedious, time consuming.; 7 standard size writing pads full of notes. Given my own assumptions about where the TC is and is not hidden, on maps I have combed every square acre of land in the Rockys from Santa Fe to the Canadian border. It’s fascinating to think that at some point in my armchair research, I have been to almost the exact location of the chest … without knowing it. But my point is that I will never be 100 percent sold on any location. Ironically, the more armchair research I do on multiple solutions, the more confident I am of my 8 of 9 clues solution. 🙂

    • @Ken Can I say something here? I know as much as the next person, but I think Mr. Fenn would know that the poem could be open to as many interpretations as there are searchers out there. This being said, I think there is no room for interpretation. The poem, to me, is exact. When someone starts to understand what the poem means they can solve it. The poem was not meant to be unsolvable. But how does somebody solve something so “vague”? Well do not think you can’t solve it. All of this is my opinion. RC.

      • RC … yes, the clues lead you to the exact location. But the clues themselves are inexact and subject to interpretation. Hence … different searchers arrive at different locations, all wrong, because they misinterpret the clues.

        When you say, upthread, that “It is better for a person to fail with the first clue … than fail … with the second clue …”, I totally disagree. There would be no need for FF to even make a first clue, if it could be skipped.

        Finding the second clue is dependent, literally dependent, on finding the first clue, in my opinion. My impression is that you have given up on finding the first clue, so you are dismissing it as irrelevant. One more thing …

        Apart from a good map, FF has said a searcher needs nothing more than the poem. So why do you need Google map and coordinates … ?

        • “yes, the clues lead you to the exact location. But the clues themselves are inexact and subject to interpretation” well said. that’s exactly where i am.

          In my theory, I found clue 4 first, and just didn’t give up on it for over 2 years. Later I found 1 and 3, and only recently 5-8 and 2. confusing. but it’s clue 4 IMO that gives you a word that is key for the whole thing. when I look at the big picture, with imagination, I like my theory. but it only leads me to the exact area- i can not figure the X.

        • Hey Ken…. So are you saying that even when the poem is solved, blaze discovered, that the emerged clues are misleading? If the solve leads directly to an area, even say a few acres large, how would a searcher miss the box?

          -Chris G

          • Hi Chris … “… emerged clues are misleading?”

            No. I don’t think there’s anything about the clues that are misleading. If one finds the chest, then in retrospect, clues that had been misinterpreted by everyone will then clear up and make sense. In my 8 of 9 clues solution, one might have to stretch their imagination a bit to see significance of some particular clue, but my understanding is that that’s what FF wants … searchers to use their imaginations.

            The difficulty for searchers is, and has always been, to get into FF’s head. I may very well be wrong both in my solution and in the reason that attempts of searchers have failed, but I kinda suspect that searchers are not understanding FF’s mindset.

          • Hey Ken…OK… I think I had a different idea of what you said. I understand the “literally” part of your post and if you have the literal answers and thus the solve.. then there should not be room for interpretation. I agree with it all. But I would also humbly remind you of the implications of our ‘whispers’ on chat boards.

          • WOW, That’s as logical as it gets, I agree Ken, no misleading here, only searchers misleading themselves. Straight forward, like the poem, except for the particular clue, (key word).
            Get in FF’s mind. Think like he does if you can. Walk in his shoes for a while reading his books. He left very important hints to where he wanted to terminate considering his outlook on survival at that stage of his life.
            I think we should reverse engineer from the final intentional resting point.

        • Ken, I have a few thoughts…

          First, I didn’t read RC’s comment about preferring to fail with the first clue over the second clue as them giving up on the first clue. Quite the opposite as it sounded like they realized the importance of figuring out the first clue.

          A main point of this post is yes the clues are vague in the poem but somehow they bring the finder to a precise location. I’m surprised you or no one else brought up what ff has mentioned a multitude of times as his best advice for serious searchers. Go back and forth reading the poem and TTOTC looking for HINTS in the book that will help you with the clues and the correct starting point (paraphrasing). IMO, it’s the hints that are not vague but help pint point the correct starting location.

          Oh and ff didn’t say you need Ggogle earth and coordinates. Forrest put an and/or in his statement which makes things subjective.

    • hello i would like your thought on.the poem once said just take the chest but leave my bones,then was changed to. just take the chest and go in peace.when you add each line.with numbers based off of each chapters example a=3 b=1 .any thoughts . i like alot of your ideas,was wondering are you working with anyone. thx

      • Lee,

        One thought. Best of my knowledge, the prior version… Just take the chest and leave my bones.. Line is only assumed to have been replaced by …take the chest and go in peace…

        It could of easily been the last line in the poem. No one so far has claimed to see any prior version nor do I believe fenn has told of them. We don’t know for sure if…As I have gone alone… Was in any or some prior writings. Or even the start in those prior attempts.

        • hello fellow seeker .ff was in a youtube video at bookshop when he said that, he also stated that he had placed the letters in one at a time, that has help to lead me to think a code, i really believe a few more than one, i do believe the poem is also straight forward, but i feel the only way the tc will be found is a decoded answer,IMO that is how ones path could be direct, thx,

        • I think this is how it was originally. It would be a simple modification once he knew he would not be leaving his bones and it helps explain why he would say “take the chest”, as if you might leave it after searching for years lol, all IMO:

          If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
          Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
          But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
          Just leave my bones and go in peace.

  106. I think everyone is watching footbal, and giving their brains a 9-clues rest!
    9 touchdowns=54
    9 extra points=9
    9 field goals =27
    Ok…I’m bored!

    Guess I’ll watch F’s interviews/fishing interviews @ lummi…again, for the 90th time! I have them memorized now!

  107. Somewhere I read that FF did not pre-plan how many clues would be in the poem. After he finished with it, he counted 9.

    Are we getting hung-up on the number 9? It’s entirely possible for there to be anywhere from 6 to 13 clues in the poem, depending on how you define a clue.

    I’m glad FF didn’t just itemize the clues. The way the poem reads now, searchers must first determine what is, and what is not, a clue before the searcher can even begin to decipher it. Further …

    What may seem to be an obvious clue might just be a red-herring, and what may seem to be filler or harmless fluff might be an important clue. 🙂

  108. Is anybody in colorado searching? Maybe new eyes to bounce ideas off of, a new perspective? I’m in Colorado and have an idea, but would like to go over initial ideas with someone. Critically thinking and deductive reasoning I think has a good start.

    • Cliff,
      Go to the Searchers Discussions page and enter the Looking in CO page for searchers in that area.

      Best of Luck

      -Wisconsin Mike

      • Thanks, I was wondering how to navigate the site!

        Are you well versed in Fenn clues? I thought perhaps a different angle may help, a deductive reasoning (as the area is rather large) may sort out the clues and expose likely map areas worth looking at. For example, if he wanted to really hide it he would have probably gone to Utah, tons of identical canyons with a dry climate that preserves, and probably of interest to him judging by his…

        Lots of people seem to be looking in my state but overlook critical thinking when looking (no harm meant), paying attention to the poem rather than…

        • Cliff-
          Many of us liked Utah and spent many happy days there wandering around following various leads and imaginative twists choreographed by his poem…but then Forrest ended it by eliminating Utah, Idaho and Canada as possible locations of the chest. We now know it is in one of four states and Utah is not one of them.

  109. If I could ask Forrest one question, it would be ” Is the TC accessible in all seasons?” I guess it would be to much information and he would give me some slick answer like he sure can. IMO You can search in the winter sometimes like in lower elev. , south sides of hills, or low snow years (if your experienced). Anyway I finally have a solve I think is worth going there, but it is close to being backcountry and next to the continental divide! Well at least I’ll be sure about my solve by June 1st Ha-ha! FYI – in the High Country we usually cant use the trails until June (late May) the trails still have snow or their mud (we don’t ruin are trails).

    • The above in reference to the clue’s “no place for the meek” “worth the cold” and “if you are brave and in the wood”. Just keep’ in it real

    • Go to Jenny Kile’s site, Forrest has weekly words there recently that will help with you question.

    • Fenn has insinuated that winter is not ideal. Probably because the Blaze is covered in snow!

  110. The following is my opinion. In order to decipher the poem the searcher has to study the poem, and the poem only. All this talk about rumors,lakes,canyons,creeks,walking distances,Brown this and that, caves,fishing places, and the like are useless. The poem and the poem only has the clues to unlock the hidden place where Mr. Fenn secreted the chest with the gold. There will be those that will not concur with me but not those close to the chest. This is my opinion. The chest is where you can drive to it, and probably cover it with your car. RC.

    • RC, I agree with you somewhat. I do think you would need names of roads, canyons & creeks. Fenn states “And take it in the CANYON down” Yes it’s in the poem, but he does not give you a name for this canyon, so how could talking about something that is in the poem be useless? Obviously he states “There’ll be no paddle up your CREEK” Oh, that’s useless talking about that to. I contradict myself occasionally as well so this is my opinion.
      “The chest is where you can drive to it, and probably cover it with your car. RC.”
      Cover it with your car?
      Really, I want some of that stuff your smoking, please.

      • @Jake I have smoked only the poem. Study it, and if you study it long enough, you’ll see what I mean, but I if you dont you’ll fail.RC.

        • I have to agree with RC that the poem has to be the obsessive focus of any serious searcher. So many seem to be almost avoiding the poem in favor of the books, the interviews, and trying to guess at where FF did one thing or another at various stages of his life. IMO, all these fascinating “add-ons” are, at most, tangential to the poem. Without unraveling the thread of the poem, there is zero possibility of finding the chest, IMO.

          • Along with the poem, you can use tactics from the treasure hunting movies and stories. Treasure is a fun word, so learn about every treasure that has been found or still hidden. Learn every detail about the holy grail, and captain kidds treasure. Learn every possible thing about JD Salinger and the other authors. See if their birthdays connect with something in the poem. Look up things that are related to Sloane, Santa Fe, etc. Find out what other people survived being shot down in war. Learn about the other mountain ranges also. Learn about where other buffalos are, and where the artwork is that Forrest loves and sold. Learn about the Simpsons as they were responsible for his upbringing in Yellowstone. Learn anything about Temple. The holy grail was taken from a temple. Temple university is in Philadelphia. Their mascot is an owl. If you do these things, then your will have direct connections, and you will be able to separate alot of things. Movie titles, headlines, song titles and lyrics, are all expressions. Forrest said Salinger was writing about him, he used JD’s expressions to describe himself. He may also use these other things to express his treasure hunt. Those stories in his book, have a little bit of everything in them. I’d research anything that involves chasing, finding, war, gold, treasure, Yellowstones, or yellow bricks. Skippy, Fenn, june, all of it. Just learn anything you can about what you think Forrest may have learned, and you may have a shot at this.. Just my thoughts..:)

          • No harm in learning all those things, Hammertime – quite the reverse – but IMO the poem is very specific and none of those things will help you at all when it comes to locating the spot. I could be completely wrong, of course…

          • I agree with you peeps about the poem is all you need, but just using the poem alone, will take you allot more time in figuring out the 9 clues than if you soaked up the other stuff Fenn is saying. If you get more info out of the interviews, books, statements, pictures and such, you will figure out the poem sooner IMO.
            Bottom line is to use all of the resources at hand including your imagination although sometimes that can retard your progress especially if your over imaginative (you tend not to be as straight forward) or non-imaginative IMO.

      • Morning to Jake and the rest of the gang,

        Concerning the line in the poem that says, “And take it in the canyon down”.

        I’m going to tell a child’s joke to make an observation concerning the use of other words in the poem that Mr. Fenn may be (and probably is) using.

        How do you get down off an elephant?

        You don’t – you get down off geese.

        So, is Forrest saying we should all be wearing a down jacket made by a company named for a famous canyon when we take the chest out of the wood? Probably not, but this example helps me to make my point, which follows.

        For myself, I am uncertain exactly what he means for many lines in the poem. I know that folks have posted what they think the different sections of the poem mean, their translation, if you will, that I am not so certain are the correct translations.

        It’s my opinion that the correct translation of the poem is needed to find the chest. Being close only counts in horseshoes, jarts and hand grenades. The tough part, for me anyways, is getting inside Mr. Fenn’s noggin to know what he means when he says what he says in the poem.

        And I’m only trying to get more of us to be thinking of the different ways that words are used to put different emphasises on the different lines in the poem. I am not trying to start an argument over who’s translation of a section of the poem is correct – rather, I am hoping to encourage someone to have that “aha” moment and to be able to figure out where Indulgence is hiding.

        Now that my boys are both home from school for Christmas break, we’ll be pouring over the poem and TTOTC again to see if we can come up with some probably search areas.

        Good luck to all!

        • Look quickly down (pillow bird)…..your west two C’s also below that line U U just but. Wise= W double U…..confused I thought so I can’t make sense of it either. Where is the other horseshoe

        • Good morning, I guess we really don’t know what the meaning is although Fenn gave us a hint saying the poem is straight forward. So I will have to take what he states for face value except one word in the poem & I don’t think it is Brown, just seems to easy for this word to be key.
          I try to keep it simple. Canyon IMO is just that. Creek is just that. If we get to complicated I think we would find billions of translations for each word in the poem & I don’t think that was Fenn’s intentions.

          • Jake, I’m not attempting to persuade you one way or the other, but your comment confuses me, You said:
            “If we get to complicated I think we would find billions of translations for each word in the poem & I don’t think that was Fenn’s intentions.”

            Fenn has stated: The poem is difficult but not impossible. No, we don’t know the level of difficulty, yet I believe fenn as given us thoughts of how it is.

            * There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues….

            * “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

            * “The person that finds it, is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.” 

            * “The poem in my book is something that I changed over and over again. When you read the poem it looks like just, just simple words there. But I guarantee you that I worked on that. I felt like an architect drawing that poem.”

            * “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

            * “Somebody could find it tomorrow and it may not be found for a thousand years. I’m looking at the big picture. A lot of people who are searching for the treasure don’t see it the same way I do. I would love if someone found it tomorrow but if nobody found it for a hundred years, that’s okay with me too.”

            Just a few thoughts from Fenn, and in most cases I read folks over simplifying the clues or don’t understand his intent. Sure there are some using codes and ciphers, etc. They were warned, yet don’t seem to care… sometimes ya can’t fix stupid < oh right, imo.

          • OK Seeker,
            I got carried away using billions. I guess the key would be to know which words are useful & which are not. We know it is difficult, otherwise someone would have found the TC by now.

            “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f
            What did Fenn mean by “the location”?
            Does he mean the location of the TC or the general location as to say West Yellowstone?

          • Seeker you could be correct. But, I feel people are saying that simple and easy are analogous. They are not. Actually most of the answers in life are simple, but can be terribly difficult to achieve.

            You say if it were simple it would have been found by now with all the searchers out searching. I would say the armchair searchers out number the boots on the ground searchers many times over. There have been scientist, mathematicians, engineers, artist, musicians, poets, soothsayers, mystics, and certainly no shortage of folks with lots and lots of imagination. I could say the same thing you do; if that is the correct way to solve the poem it would have been found by now.

            I do agree with you that we should take all of his statements as a whole in context; not fixate on and twist one or two comments to match our solutions.

            For example; his statements about going with certainty seem to be the ones the armchair searchers hang their hats on. He didn’t say where one will find the wisdom to see the blaze and make the “ah ha” moment happen. It could happen from your couch as you say using Google Earth or a magic formula, or it might only happen looking in the canyon down. I wonder if we will ever know.

          • Good question Jake, Why can’t “location” be both, the area and the chest. We don’t know how large or small the ‘clue area’ is… all we know is the chest is in the area indicated on the map, tftw. Seriously if we think about it before actually knowing we have; a larger area that brings us to a pin point, we have a small area with all the clues very close to the chest. There is also the possibility that it’s all a description of area’s and no traveling involved [till you walk up to the chest], as well as the first clue may be the hiding place itself. Then again it may just be a luck of the draw to find the start and pace everything out.

            I love hearing folks yell out saying, the poem will lead you to the chest… well sure it will, we’ve been told as much… Yet each one of those Yell’rs have many different approaches as well. Somewhere along the line the poem should start to click. Hopefully at that point all the other after the fact comments will make more sense… Maybe why Utah and Idaho is out of the running, or are they just useless clues. Why Canada is gone or … well you get the gist.

          • “A dare went out to everyone who possessed a sense of wanderlust; study the clues in the book and thread a tract through the wiles of nature and circumstance to the treasure. If you can find it, you can have it. I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.”f

            to the treasure…find it…have it —> taken in context with the preceding lines of his quote, it definitely appears that his use of “location” is referencing the “treasure”…..oh,oh,oh! – IMO

            Merry Christmas to all!! 🙂

          • Goofy,

            At some point, one needs to go… That’s a given [ If capable, and some are here just for the entertainment of the solve] . Yet there should be a very good understanding of where they need to go. Is there something in the field that is needed to be seen or understood, we don’t know, But beforehand indicates that we should be able to know what it is we need to look for.

            I agree that the answers to it all, will be a more simplistic understanding of the solution overall, yet getting to that point will be the difficult part, the understanding of what it is we are reading the way he intended. Doesn’t matter if that is botg, armchair, etc. It’s the confirmation of having what is needed to finish beforehand… whatever that may be.

            The big question is how did fenn intend the poem to be understood?

            This challenge/hunt has one factor that most others do not, and that is fenn’s involvement. One way to look at that is, it hinders a searcher by more confusion… OR it helps a searcher in the attempt to see which thought process fenn is using.
            Of course there are other who think other thought about all this, but no reason to bring them up… you know them as well as I. The point is if we have those comments from fenn… it would seem to me if one takes an overall view of them, we may see his intent.

            Don’t get me wrong as to say I think botg is useless or a waste of time… IMO that was one of fenn’s intent, to get folks motivated to “go” and search. I’m taking about the poem and how see it through his eyes. Whatever method one want to believe, it’s all about understanding the poem itself.

            The one intent that has given me thoughts to ponder on is… influence future generations… along with 100, 1000 years down the road comment and the above comments, It just make me think about how those clues should work together. Contiguous. I can’t help but to see a correlation.

          • I think a little understanding of FF and his life is helpful… but only if used as confirmation of the path and the meaning given to the words. If you start with trying to gather all the background info and build a solution from that, it will be just confusing noise – full of seeming contradictions and dead-ends.

            I truly believe the poem stands on its own – and is built to last. Books, films, songs, and FF’s comments will likely fade away as our generation passes. If the treasure is not found and the poem somehow survives, future generations will have an equal chance of solving it, IMO.

            I’ve been “yelling” concentrate on the poem because I am convinced that it contains all the answers, but that they are expertly disguised. And even though I’ve had boots on the ground a half-dozen times already, I now see that it’s fully solvable without the necessity to be in the field. In that sense, Seeker’s correct, in my view.

          • The big question is how did fenn intend the poem to be understood? Time;

            “the end is ever drawing nigh”

          • Good question,
            Could it be that we need to put in water at a specific location?
            Then draw (pull) out at a specific location?
            If we do not pull out at a specific location, would we have gone to far?
            I think this makes sense.
            Merry Christmas all!

          • I love reading all of the different takes and opinions about every angle in the poem. I think this exemplifies exactly what Forrest had in Mind all along. I presume he knew that ambiguity would breed ambiguity. The dust would cloud over the trail before it was ever found. It would be easy for him to state the truth(or part of it) any time he wanted, and still be misunderstood. There are some very sharp minds here on this blog sharing some really creative approaches and that is what just might crack this open for some lucky searcher. I look forward to more of Forrest’s stories and hope he continues to share…. Merry Christmas to all the die hard searchers out there in blog land…and Happy New Year!! Thanks Dal for all of your hard work to keep us up to date.

      • I believe Forrest stated that it was not in VERY close proximity, Of course, that’s open to interpretation, but I firmly believe that Forrest only had to walk a matter of a hundred yards or so to the spot.

        • Vox, I agree with you. Additionally, fenn also spelled proximity incorrectly as “proximaty” which is not a word. So one could argue: the entire statement invalid; or as you said not Very close; or look closer at defs for “proxy” and “maty”…IMPT to define ‘trail’ as well. Trail IMO after reading defs is not equivalent to a road. Hidey spot is most likely 200 linear or vertical feet from a main road, or scenic lookout – that’s how ff knows folks have been that close. All IMO, but chasse educated guesses.

    • RC, I get your point about the poem & agree to some degree. I just would like to know if you think the words in the poem like “canyon” & “stream” are useless in your mind as you stated above?
      If they are useless, then what is the true meanings of these words & the other words in the poem? If you can’t tell us that, then just give us a general description of your reasoning again (I may have missed earlier posts), although the poem is supposedly “straight forward”.
      BTW, I have a solve that fits with the clues in the poem IMO.

  111. hello. ff even said in youtube, video at book shop. someone had deciphered the first two clues. has anyone found anything in the mirror poem that they would care to share. , i think that is going to be what leads to someone finding the cipher.. IMO . thx

    • Lee, the only thing I got out of the mirror poem that I take as subtle hints are the ages FF uses, specifically 22, teens, and 44. When I look at page 22 in TTOTC, it’s the start of a story when FF was a in his teens and in Texas. When I look at page 44 it’s the start of the story “In Love with Yellowstone”. I already felt the search area is in Montana and should be based out of West Yellowstone. I hope that answers your request, and as always, this is all IMO. Good luck.

      • Correction, the age was 23 in the poem, not 22. My bad. But the application is still the same.

  112. It’s been a while since I posted. Took a break to get life in order.
    Nice to be back.
    Anyway, I have searched Yellowstone and Colorado but now IN MY OPINION, I believe it is in New Mexico.
    I still want to check the place in Yellowstone, more for the reason that I didnt make it there the first time and it bugs me to have failed. I hope to write up that story later.
    So, why New Mexico.
    I was seriously thinking about this (aren’t we all), and came to some conclusions. I will try and type these in a comprehensive way. Bear with me.

    1. It’s where he wants his body to rest. Now, we know he loves Yellowstone. Childhood memories. But he lives in NM. Obviously FF has the money to move back to YS if he wanted, but his heart must be in Santa Fe or someplace in NM.
    And he has done a lot of archaeology work in NM and that has to bring you closer to the land, discovering long gone civilizations. For all we know, there could be a hidden Indian home in some cliff somewhere that only he knows about. Which makes sense since he would “Throw his body on top of it”(the TC).

    2. He made a comment in another blog to someones request that they would drive him when he dies to the chest to put his body there. Or something like that. FF response was, “Why, I can just ride my bike, and throw it in the ‘water high’”. Now, is this someplace he can ride too? hmmm, close to Santa Fe? Can he bike 9 miles? probably.

    3. The main reason. Now. to be honest, not many people have heard of FF before the hunt broke in the news. He was just an art dealer/Archaeologist that has an interesting past (like we all do actually. sit and think about yours sometime 🙂 ) He has a good life and then comes down with Cancer. Decides to give back, write his Memoirs and just publish it locally for the few that come in and see it. No mass publishing. No huge PR stunt. Just published in a book at a local book store. Hopefully someone would come buy, pick it up, read it and look for the chest and maybe even find it.
    In the book, FF says it is in the mountains North of Santa Fe. He didn’t write, somewhere in the Rocky Mountains North of Santa Fe. Just in the mountains North.
    I highly suspect that he never thought it would turn into what it is today. And can you imagine if ALL the searchers that have been and are looking all went to just NM to look? Especially if it’s narrowed down to the either the TAOS mountains or the mountains just North of Santa Fe? It would probably be found pretty quick, let alone all the damage that would probably take place.
    So, what to do. Back track and say, “The Rocky Mountains” North of Santa Fe.
    This would deter people from just looking in NM and lengthen the time until it’s found.
    Plus, if I remember right, early on, he did check on the treasure once to see if it was still there. And hasn’t since. Much easier when it is close to home.

    What do you think?
    Am I way off base here?
    I am just trying to take this in context of when he wrote the book and hid the TC, not by what has happened since.

    Again, this is my opinion from my take on things in the book and things FF has mentioned.


    • Mark, you have very valued remarks but wanted to share something in case you haven’t purchased and read TFTW. Chapter 30 on page 210 is titled Heading North. It’s a quick story of FF getting into his airplane for a spur of the moment 4 day trip to Wyoming. No one knew where he was, not even his wife. He says he made several of these unplanned trips years ago before he lost his pilots license. Also I recall somewhere that there is an 18 month period of time when he could have hidden the TC and that is why his wife, family, and friends have no idea when he actually did it.

      So my imagination tells me he left Santa Fe in his airplane on one of these many trips, got to his location, rented a car/truck and drove to the Hidey Place. This is why I believe it is not in NM.

      Some of my best memories are from when I was growing up. I am still friends to this day with a buddy I’ve known since I was 3 years old. He is coming with me in April to go fishing and to look for the TC. This is why my heart tells me it’s not far from West Yellowstone, MT.

      All IMO and good luck to you and everyone, Happy Holiday’s 🙂

      • Bookworm-
        Remember though that TFTW (which I do have BTW) was written after everything “Blew up” not before.
        So TFTW could easily have been written to throw people off, not bring them closer. ie., the map.

        I personally don’t believe, IMO, that FF meant the whole rocky mountains up to Canada when he put, “the mountains North of Sante Fe.”
        If someone asked me where is Yellowstone NP ( I am in Colorado Springs), I don’t think I would say, it’s in the mountains North of Colorado Springs. (even though technically it is)
        I would say that if I wanted to mislead them. But again, IMO, I don’t think that BACK THEN, when FF wrote the book and hid the TC, he intended to Mislead.
        Why would he?
        The mountains N of Sante Fe are plenty big enough to hide a box smaller than a square foot. Plenty.

        Now saying this, will I go back you YS and look for my “spot”. Yes. but mainly because I didn’t make it the first time and I will NOT be defeated. 🙂 (or eaten) hopefully.

        Plus, YS is a beautiful place. And this time I will bring my family. (I can run faster than they can)


          • Bookworm,
            according to the link you shared, at the bottom, Dal says:

            Forrest has not been a pilot for many years. He was not a pilot when he hid the chest. I do not know for certain how long ago Forrest gave up his license and sold his plane but I do know that it took place prior to 2009 which is the earliest date he gives for having hidden the chest.”

            So, according to that, FF couldn’t have flown anywhere to hide it.

          • Mark, thanks for pointing that out. I must have missed that part. Well there goes that theory of mine, lol 🙂

          • Bookworm ….Re:SB 13..350hp ly coming. The guy is very sly with his use of words. Another word for “exhilarating “…stirring. ” Stirring the pot”.
            That’s my opinion on this SB after having read it several times. I think his father was an English teacher. 🙂

      • Imagine yourself writing the poem and doing this entire treasure hunt by yourself. You would spend 15 years thinking of words to write? I doubt it. You would be spending the entire time researching things that best fit what you wanted to do with each word. Regardless if you think forrest cares about pop music or hip hop, or XXX movies. I am certain, he spent time researching them all to see if it fit the chase. That is Forrest using his imagination and someone elses imagination. So you get to use YOUR imagination, Forrest’s imagination, and any other imagination that applies. It is like 6 degrees of separation. You go through a bunch of hoops and end up where you started. Along the way though, is where you experience everything. The first thing you see on Google earth, is the EARTH, and it is still the last thing that you see on Google Earth, no matter how you look at it.

    • Mark,
      Those are interesting and rational points, but irrelevant, IMO. The poem tells you where the chest is.

      • I agree with you 100% Vox. It so interesting to me that searchers instead of studying the poem they rather head out and search anywhere north of SantaFe, and in the Rockies. I guess there are searchers, and then there are researchers, just my opinion. RC.

      • I don’t think the poem tells you “Where” it is. But it gives directions on “How to get” to where it is.
        IF, you know were to start.
        And doing research on “Where to start”, to me is a good thing.
        It’s like debugging software.
        If I know what the error is and how to fix it. But I have to find where the error is. If I can narrow down the code base to let’s say, 500 lines of code instead of 5,000,000, that’s probably a good thing.

        So, narrowing down the search to 10,000 square miles from 383,000, that would probably be a good thing.

        I like good things.

        especially when they are good.


      • Hey Vox. You are consistent. But IMO I think it may blemish your search by not opening to suggestions of different opinions. As I have suggested, that the poem is a key. If I only use the poem, that eliminates the rest of the world to use as the search. Meaning, there is nothing in the poem that says anything about the Rocky Mountains or anything within the Rocky Mountains. I think it is simply there to guide you. I think the answer is in front of someone everyday, and that answer will lay in a movie, or a song, or something that people continue to see over and over. If you are using the poem only, its simply the same thing as guessing and just pointing at a spot on a map, and digging there. There are no sets of specifics in the poem and only a general direction with some of the most used words in the English dictionary. (Up and Down, or Nigh(left)). Nothing is specific except for the poem as whole or itself The words and lines are all phrases that make a picture of something we already know, or have probably heard of. It tags along with stories that Fenn tells, and Fenns stories tag along with other stories that have been told by other people around the world. I am not a book smart person, but I am street smart, and very wise and cautious. I can sniff this one out like it is a trick, if you follow the surface it will only lead you in the wrong direction. If you read between the lines and apply it to what is on the surface, then you are gathering the info you need. This is the same tactic I used along with everyone else in a cut throat sales environment.
        When the detectives look for criminals, they dont just assume things without finding out, why they assumed that in the first place. How did the body get from there, and why was her hair fixed a certain way. Was she going out that night, did she have a secret lover, what time did he clock out from work?.. They dont want to just know who murdered the person, they want to know exactly how, and why, and when, where, what and anything else they can gather? It is data.
        I think you have to ask these questions to every single word, stanza, phrase, line, letter, number, anagram, connection, or anything else you can find in the poem, to be able to uncover 1 thing that you can state as a fact, out of what would be a coincidence to every other searcher.
        But since you are the “voice of the public”, then I respect your opinion. I just think your tactic is motionless and very limited, with not alot of options. 🙂


        • Hi Hammertime,

          You said: ” Meaning, there is nothing in the poem that says anything about the Rocky Mountains or anything within the Rocky Mountains. I think it is simply there to guide you. I think the answer is in front of someone everyday, and that answer will lay in a movie, or a song, or something that people continue to see over and over. If you are using the poem only, its simply the same thing as guessing and just pointing at a spot on a map, and digging there. There are no sets of specifics in the poem and only a general direction with some of the most used words in the English dictionary. (Up and Down, or Nigh(left)).”

          I respect your opinion (and let’s face it, these are all opinions until the end of the rainbow is found), but I disagree that there are no specifics in the poem. That was certainly how I used to think, and it was very frustrating not being able to tease concrete steps out of the poem. Now my position is 180 degrees reversed.

          I believe that the poem is a masterpiece of disguise and depth, hiding within innocuous-sounding words and phrases a set of very specific clues that take you absolutely from point A to B to C and so on. But you need to dig beneath the surface, as well as view the poem almost as a 3D puzzle, where things interlock.

          Forrest has said words to the effect that all you need is the poem and a good map, plus an understanding of geography. After a huge amount of time studying the poem from every angle, I agree with Mr. Fenn, Until the snows are gone I cannot prove that my interpretation is correct, but the correlation between what has been uncovered in the poem and what I’ve “seen” on the ground has only reinforced my view.

          All the “other stuff” is really interesting and may or may not offer hints that will help you, but the poem holds the key, and it doesn’t involve any guesswork! All IMO.

          • @Vox It is interesting what you are saying. It’s almost as if I was saying it except for the having to wait until the snow melts comment. It is my belief a person can get the treasure most of the year, and maybe, just maybe ,the whole year. My opinion.RC.

          • You may be right, RC, but I’m not prepared to risk a failed attempt. It’s happened before, and it’s just too expensive and frustrating. I’m watching snow depth reports avidly, and will go just as soon as I know I can realistically get to the spot.

            Leaving aside the search area itself, the passes near me have had a few feet of snow. 1250 miles under those conditions would be no fun. I’ve purchased snowshoes for me, as well as Autosocks for my Subaru, but the ground clearance and traction is not up that of a Jeep Wrangler or ATV. And there’s no point in flying – how would I stow the chest? 🙂

            Are you going to be heading out soon?

          • Vox, You stated:
            “If you are using the poem only, its simply the same thing as guessing and just pointing at a spot on a map, and digging there. There are no sets of specifics in the poem and only a general direction with some of the most used words in the English dictionary. (Up and Down, or Nigh(left)).”

            I can see how someone would say, no set of specifics in the poem. Yet I can also see that someone needs to define “specific” to what they think it means. If one is look for each reference to be an exact small place I would agree to a certain point. Yet again, if those point are not so small then I can say, hogwash. It’s all about what each reader sees when they read the poem…

            One person will see the first line in the as fenn going alone to hide the chest. OK I can see that as well. But can it also be fenn going alone into the area he is spiritually connected to? sure and is that the location of the chest or the location he is telling us where to start?
            It’s very easy to get lost in “looking” for small point, imo. So here’s a thought of… gone alone in there… from a larger perspective. We were told the chest is in the mountains North of SF… Fenn had to clarify he meant NM. He also had to clarify the mountains meant the RM’s. Did we as readers dismiss this information too fast? Maybe we were to figure that out for a reason.

            Scenario; Gone alone into the RM’s, and ‘the’ SF is at the end of that range… a simple deduction, but it took some 2-3 years before fenn let that information out. Meanwhile searchers where all over the map, and outside the Rockies, and look at other SF as possibilities. I say this because if we were to have had to figure that out, is there a reason?

            Specifically, I can see that to ..”begin” it where… may mean not so much be a place to “start” but understand begin; as create. So is it the we [searchers] are to travel? or is the waters travel is what we need to understand? So I ask you, How specific can you be on … Not far, but too far to walk…? if you’re looking for a small point to go to.

            With the poem only… Know where to begin at the creating of the mountain range [ forget what we call it… doesn’t matter about names] the waters travel the canyon down covering tens of thousands of miles. [ lets skip hoB for the moment ] …from there it’s no place for the meek… or one interpretation would be the “back bone” of the range, the heavy loads and water high of the range… the CD <[ again a given name but understood as a location just the same ] All specific places to understand, yet just not as small as most hope they would be. Is there a connection to No place for the meek and 'If your brave and in the wood' a clue or a hint? Brave being opposite of meek and in the wood could mean… mountain pass.

            No real heavy duty research [ just simple refreshing what we should already know ] , just the poem, give specific locations, followed in order [ consecutive ], all connecting to each other [ contiguous ] . Of course this still falls to what one would believe " specific " means.

            Food for thought.

          • Have you been at the eggnog again, Seeker? The part you quoted was Hammertime’s comments, not mine (I was quoting HT).

          • Opps… Yep, lets blame that on the eggnog, even though I can stand the stuff… We need a new holiday drink, maybe a Long Island Ice tea.

          • I don’t think all are playing checkers, you cannot take us all & put us into a different category from yourself because you do not have the chest either.
            I think the poem is a map of sorts leading you to the treasure which would be 3D, but it’s not chess. With chess there are many ways to win. With the poem there is only one solution.

        • Maybe instead of this being like 3D chess it’s like a trying to unlock a cryptex with a billion combinations. Only one combination involving the correct nine clues will open it.

  113. Nice to see you back, Mark! – I don’t believe that you’re “off base.” (I’m still captivated with Fenn’s New Mexico, also.)

    Anyone who is in the Chase and still finds it a “thrill”……I admire.

    Merry Christmas – Happy Holidays to you and yours ~


    • Thanks SL.
      I did search a bit around Bandelier NM. There are quite a bit of hot springs and you have the Los Alamos Testing facility and who knows how much “Warm” water is coming out of that place.

      I know it has been brought up before but the drawing of the Taos mountains in the TFTW book, sure looks like it says Gold on the side in the mountain lines.

      I’m trying to nail down my search this summer to either TAOS or back around Bandelier.

  114. Searchers looking for the treasure without studying the poem will not find it in their lifetime. Go back to the poem. The poem is not what it seems. It’s my opinion.RC

  115. @onuat et al, F’s father was a math teacher and the school principal, according to my notes. Happy Winter Solstice everyone, the days start getting longer after today!

  116. Off topic, I don’t want pester Dal, but anyone know how to view the archives without searching? I would like to see nine clues #55, then 54 ect. All in a list maybe like the scrap books. Is it here and I am just lacking eggnog? I found a few through searching, but now for “archive nine clues fifty-five” I get a “there is no results”. I am sure it’s there,,,,what is that expression about tools and a shed?

  117. Colokid, I disagree with your analogy. I believe its just the opposite. We are playing 3d chess and the chase is supposed to be a game of checkers. Don’t get me wrong, I believe Forrest is a very intelligent man. I just think he out smarted us by making the poem so simple that it just flew over everyones head. When you put thousands of people opinions together on a blog it becomes a challenge to outdo each other rather than staying focused on the game.(imo)

    • There’s a big difference, in my opinion, between simple and straightforward (at least as far as this poem goes). The solution may be straightforward, but the poem ain’t simple!

      I believe that to solve it you need to challenge your own ingrained ways of looking at things, and step outside the linguistic “comfort zone” that most of us English speakers possess. That may be why Forrest has said that children could potentially have an advantage; it might also apply to those whose main language is something other than English.

  118. Merry Christmas everyone! Here’s to a Happy and Prosperous New Year! IMO Indulgence may be found in 2016. The poem has revealed its brilliance to me in full detail as I type this. Sleepless nights and daydreams have taken over where obsession once ruled. Fear of not being the first one there haunts my mind as I listen to my loved ones tell me it is too dangerous to go right now. What good is a chest full of gold to a dead man, they ask. What good is the solve without the chest, I respond. Weather queries reveal heavy snowfall and Icy conditions in the Rockies. So I wait. I can only pray that spring is not too late…I feel the hot breath of others as they get closer to me, and smell the footprints of those that were there before me, so close yet so far. I can only assume they knew not where they trod…for me, there can be no other place. The blaze is clear to me now, and I am so convinced, that FF himself could tell me I was wrong and I would not believe him. Other solves have come and gone, and, at the time they seemed to fit so well, and I was convinced each time, that I was right. But there is something so much different about my confidence this time. It is like all the other times, I left the classroom thinking I had gotten an A on the test…but this time, I leave KNOWING I didn’t miss a single thing. I don’t know how else to describe it. As to why I don’t provide some sort of evidence or proof…or a clue to the solve…all I can say is this.
    When you have heard about a good place to fish, and somebody asks you where a good place to fish might be, you share that information willingly…But when you yourself find a secret fishing hole, you tell no one…because you know everyone else will go there, and when you go back, it will not be good anymore. When I arrive there, if Indulgence is not there, I WILL KNOW I was not the first one to solve the poem. I will then share the spot with everyone. If I find indulgence, I will leave a second place treasure for someone else to find, and the chase can go on. And, just for the record…all is IMO until that chest is in my lap, or until I reveal my solve to Forrest along with news that indulgence was not there anymore.

    Michael D

    • I hear you, Michael. That’s exactly how I’ve been feeling and thinking. You and I may be treading the same path soon.

      The solution dawned on me just a day or two after the snow started falling in earnest a few weeks ago – I could have kicked myself for not having got to it sooner.

      I also have been able to stop obsessing – and it’s a blessed relief.

    • Good luck MD…merry ho ho and all that. The proof will once again be in the pudding. Be safe out there !

    • And Merry Christmas to you Mikey.

      So you’re not obsessed???? Obsession: an idea or thought that continually preoccupies or intrudes on a person’s mind.

      In my opinion you’re a classic case of an obsessed searcher; an emotional roller coaster with sleepless nights worrying about someone beating you to it. And when it’s not where you think it should be it means someone has already got it……Classic off the deep end searcher.

      You’ve been around here a long time, it seems you would know better than this…..How many solutions does this make that you were absolutely sure you solved the poem?

      Looking forward to reading your perfect solution……Hang in there.

    • MD,
      You still think indulgence is there where you went otherwise you would tell us exactly where you have been. So your not done & you do think you may have been off by a little like myself & others. I give you credit for going where your dreams are. Not many searchers will actually go there physically, in a place in there mind, where they think the treasure is. Some cannot afford it. Some are physically unable.
      But you went many times & still have the strength to strive forward after several defeats.
      Stay focused, mentally, spiritually, monetarily & physically in life.

    • Merry Christmas!
      MD, could you reveal the clues and hints for your most recent solve without identfying the hiding place? I too found the ideal place that fits hints and clues in the book and the poem. I’ve previously revealed my partial solve and recently found the remainder of the clues. But, ive had so many solves before, I’m taking it slow and waiting for the weather to improve. I wish you good luck in your newest solve.

    • Michael D, Indulgence was never lost. Its wherever or whatever you want it to be. Remember dreams never die, just the dreamer. Hold fast to your dreams and try to do it in moderation. When I have a dream I keep it to myself. It belongs to me. Never throw your dreams out there for people to trample on. When they come true share them don’t boast. (IMO)

  119. I wonder if a person was to post a solve on here tonight for a Christmas present to the first person to get there and pick it up, how many people would believe it or would they pick it apart and tell how it couldn’t possible be right. Just a thought that maybe in all of this creative thinking and posting of solutions there are bits and pieces that a person could use and go straight to the chest within reason, but which bits and which pieces. Merry Christmas

    • If for some reason I could not go myself to explore my solve I would contact a charitable organization for the benefit the needy to go and seek. Merry Christmas!

      • yes I am are fortunate to be mobile and able to continue pursuing my travels in the mountains. And I am fortunate to make silly solves doomed to fail. Maybe we should create an opportunity for less fortunate people that think they have solved the poem to recover the chest for them, legal and binding so that they could reap the rewards if they are right. IMO

    • Perhaps parts of the solution are in our hundred thousand plus comments or one of the solutions posted JL. Is one of our WWWH’s listed the right one? Are any of our commenters members of the two hundred foot club?

      To answer your question JL, I like to think we would know the correct solution if someone posted it. To me the solution will be elegant and fit like a glove. Not be a mismatch of information created out of delusional desperation. I think most of us have the same problem; we come up with a few clues that really do make sense but then we go off the deep end dreaming up the other clues force fitting them to our solutions.

      So if my assumption is correct and the clues fit together elegantly how did so many solve the first two clues and go past the others? There seems to be a dilemma no matter what we think.

      Merry Christmas to all….

      • “…how did so many solve the first two clues and go past the others?”

        Because they misunderstood the meaning of “put in” and “from there”. IMO.

        • I see going past the others as much more simple. They got the first two correct but simply picked the third wrong, from that point they would be off no matter if 4-9 were correct .imo

      • Agreed,
        when the pieces fit together like an intricate piece of machinery then it stands a good chance of being correct. The last 4 trips I made I could never get past HOB, so for me that is the third clue which means I only had 20% correct before that maybe……. twenty percent is a long way from 100 percent so a person has to ask themselves what they are doing wrong? Seems some had 20, maybe 30 percent correct and got within the 200′ mark, but didn’t know it which raises all types of red flags, or maybe that is an irrelevant part of the equation..

        • As goofy stated the dilemma is If the clues fit together, in order, contiguous, get easier as they go along… all thing that we have been suggested to… How do those searchers “not know” they had the clue[s]. And now has many has four may be known or not known. By all indications, fenn seems to think [ the one that knows the answers ] that searcher don’t know they have the correct clues, whether he was told in person, by e-mail, of reads postings.

          While the talk of the town is how some feel they are correct, I still sit and think for the fun of it, things I have posted, maybe fenn read those and knows I got four clues correct [ < big hypothetical ]. And maybe other feel the same possibility… so why would we 'not know' after the first two clue or even four total clues, as far as fenn is concerned? So we talk about clues yet we don't know we have the correct ones…. How?

          So far I hear explanations of how a searcher could get the "next" clue wrong and simply keep going, or maybe made a "wrong turn" at one of the correct clues, even some having "all but one correct clue" and getting 200' from the chest. These indicate they knew where to start, what the first or second or third or fourth clue was and got the rest wrong… That can be either… All great, yet wrong… by fenns comments… no one knows they have the clues correct… That is what I'd like to talk more about… how can anyone indicated clues, and not know they had them…. if the are in "order" "Contiguous" fit together, get easier, nail down the first clue…. we can sit here and make excuses of how someone just turned south instead of north, yet that doesn't explain why they didn't know what a prior clue[s] is.

          • Seeker,
            You said -That is what I’d like to talk more about… how can anyone indicated clues, and not know they had them… —
            This thought has came across my mind often, one of my better guesses is theres no way to gauge how correct a clue may be. Or even what an entire clue is within the poem, this must be persice to get every clue correct(and I mean correct in fenn’s eyes). Another possibillity is maybe the correct area is a popular search area and thats why the searcher is there and when they can’t find what there looking for they move on to other popular search areas(I’ve heard of treasure hunting clubs/groups do this).

          • IMO — A few guessed at the correct area without knowing how to solve the Poem. They did not get it from WWWH or even the next few lines as those lines don’t get you to the area.


          • Talk about flogging a dead horse a million times. I think you should get an award cker you’ve drawn this discussion out about as far as you can. Of course they new, how could they not know! Think about the particle accelerator in CERN with me. They ran thousands of tests smashing particles together in search of the God particle. Did those physicists at anytime see the G particle? Of course not its called the power of deaductive reasoning my friend.

          • As stated, the dilemma is: If the clues fit together, in order, contiguous, get easier as they go along… all things that have been suggested to us. – -How do those searchers “not know” they had the clue[s].

            Again, Seeker, you have answered your own question. In order for the stated parameters to fit, the searcher must “know” that the solutions they propose fit the first two clues. Failing that, they must at least recognize the “possibility” that the solution may fit a clue and proceed forward from that point…..

            There is absolutely no way for the solution to flow correctly (i.e.: in order, contiguously, get easier) unless you at least recognize the “possibility” that something may actually be related to the Poem.

            Which brings us to this question of yours: “That is what I’d like to talk more about… how can anyone indicate clues, and not know they had them?”

            —–Because, they do not recognize the “possibility” that what they are relating to Fenn is actually a solution to a clue and not just a peripheral function of the Chase itself.
            The searchers are telling Fenn all their activities which are Chase “related”, as well as their solutions and travels. When they describe certain activities (which we all do in a certain sense) and where they transpired, then Fenn says to himself, smiling: “you just solved the first two clues and don’t know it!”

            (and yes, lots of others arrive there and don’t recognize the significance!)

            If you don’t recognize the “possibility” of a solution to a clue, then you could have 100 solutions and none would be correct….. And, all that time, you had the first two solved but didn’t know it.

            Hope ya had a good Christmas!!… LOL!! No questions!! Right or wrong, I don’t want to elaborate more….Have a Happy New Year!!

            Oh yeah………IMOIMOIMO

            (Go ahead and flog that horse another million….I’ll help ya!! 🙂 )

          • Loco: Which brings us to this question of yours: “That is what I’d like to talk more about… how can anyone indicate clues, and not know they had them?”
            I think they may have been in tourist mode & not searching?

          • Apparently King, you have not seen all the discussions on this topic… the searchers “did not know” …a quote from fenn about the first two clues, and as of late possibly the first four clues may not be known as well. I may just be beating a dead horse, yet as a searcher attempting to solve this poem one needs to ask these question or other wise we make excuses, such as they went to the next clue and got that one wrong… That doesn’t help explain why they didn’t know they had the correct clues.

            Fenn even stated in one comment that they may have gotten there by aberrations, which by fenn’s definition is ” something different “. Could it be that the “important possibility” that fenn also talks about may relate to why they or any of us don’t know? Yep I’ll keep beating that horse till I can come up with a logical reason why we’re all missing something.

          • It is not beating a dead horse, it is merely performing CPR on it. Some may have known, most probably did not. My opinion is, that the area is a common one. And, it may be common for more than just a Treasure search…

          • Seeker,
            I don’t believe the thing that we are missing is in the after poem comments and questions but rather in the poem itself. I believe the thing that everyone is lacking with there solves is “thinking the right thing” or understanding the poem in a certin way. I also have come to believe that this has to be done in a creative way with ones imagination(this might be why a child may have an advantage in understanding some aspects). Ethier way I enjoy discussing just about everything chase related.

          • Loco, back at ya … Happy Holidays.

            Yes we have both said that is one possibly [ your comment ] And yes, as I said before, that is a lot of off searching talk about other things and places they went. Yet again it is a bit hard to digest that All those e-mails or talks or even postings were in reference to other activities other than chase related ~ meaning on a search or about the clues.

            I may just be alone in this thought… but I think others share the same thoughts. I’m gonna go now… I need to find a larger stick to beat that dang poor horse till it talk.

          • Count,

            Yes, this after the fact comment relates directly to the first two clues and maybe now… just maybe the first four clues. What I find interesting is those tooting they know, with nothing to back that up.

            So my intent is to understand these comments from fenn about the first two clues mainly because, we have been told the first clue is being ignored, not dwelling enough on etc. etc. anyways time will tell, hopefully.

          • Ok boys an girls I think the key here is perspective. If you could peek over Fenn’s shoulder when he constructed this mind bender you’d be praying for a revelation. The reason I think so many are spinning their wheels is because they lack perspective. An imagination can work but you have to be looking at the poem from Forrests perspective.

          • Seekah,
            I wrote: “they do not recognize the “possibility” that what they are relating to Fenn is actually a solution to a clue and not just a peripheral function of the Chase itself.”

            You are quite correct. We have discussed the possibility of some arriving due to telling Fenn of ALL their activities.

            I am addressing the “solved two clues”, only. And, as I wrote, what it is they might have said to Fenn that would enable him to say, “they had solved two clues and didn’t know it.” What they may have said is definitely Chase related…..a peripheral function.

            The Count wrote: “the thing that everyone is lacking with there solves is “thinking the right thing” or understanding the poem in a certin way.”

            That’s what you(Seeker), and I, have been trying to determine for a while. My above suggestion to you is based upon, and derived from, viewing the Poem from a certain perspective…one which has not been discussed before.


            Count, I like the way you think – – -> “I also have come to believe that this has to be done in a creative way with ones imagination(this might be why a child may have an advantage in understanding some aspects)….. That may just be what we have been dismissing!!!

          • King, Perspective view, just as loco stated as well, is what this talk is about. Is it a perspective of a kid? ~ we should lean towards.
            Yes, it is almost impossible to get into the heads of other searchers or fenn’s yet that is what we have been doing for a long time. Maybe the different perspectives of viewing the poem is now needed. Some of my thoughts in the past have been; fenn is narrating the poem about something or someone else. The poem may be a journey other than fenn’s or at least, combined with. It could be all a description of something and within that something the places develop… an understanding of where [ larger or small ] Other searchers have come up with the poem being of another treasure to be found along with the chest, so the research those avenues. Some have thought constellations is what the poem refers too.

            These type of thoughts lean away from the botg method and some don’t understand how that can be. That’s fine. I’m looking at any and all ways to read the poem from whatever perspective I can. some of which involve [ as i said in the past ] Birth, death, journey of I, creation and destruction of a place [ again large or small ] etc.

            Some reasons to look into these avenues is the word “Begin”, with all the different meanings/usage it has. IF some want to be locked into Begin as just a single meaning and only that… that’s fine as well… I look at other possibilities, and even all those combined. Is this beating a dead horse, a waste of time? I can say the same for a single botg method as directional only. Point is I don’t know and still looking on how to read the poem as intended. Which way is straightforwards? I can say they all are, but only one is correct.

            PS. just because I raise a question or make a comment doesn’t mean i believe it to be so… it simply means I’m still looking and analyzing. No bragging here that I know anything at all. That’s the only fact I can give you to date.

          • @Seeker, you mention that some sre tooting, but have nothing to back it up. Im not sure i would agree with that statement. I believe i have I nterpreted the clues and hints correctly, but due to weather, cant get to the place and validate my findings. I have emailed FF my translation and im very excited about it. Its been a long journey of researching and reading. Ive been through this cycle numerous times. But, if im wrong, then its just another cycle of researching and read ing the books again. As i look back, i see other searchers going through the same process and helps to appreciate what ive accomplished and others before me. So, i do have a document and research to back my translation, but will share it once ive made my trip to the hiding place. It just takes time to go through that process.

          • loco,
            you wrote-Count, I like the way you think – – -> “I also have come to believe that this has to be done in a creative way with ones imagination(this might be why a child may have an advantage in understanding some aspects)….. That may just be what we have been dismissing –
            I’ve poundered this for a little while and I think this might be why fenn said simple or strightforward because if a child where to understand it, the correct understanding couldn’t be too complicated. But if some aspects take a creative child like imagenation to solve how did fenn develope this within the poem?

          • Count wrote—> But if some aspects take a creative child-like imagination to solve how did fenn develop this within the poem?

            I don’t think he designed it to need a “creative child-like imagination”. The trail I am on now just requires looking at each aspect of the Poem from the perspective of a child, and how they describe things.
            Depending on age, they have a limited vocabulary and understanding of complex meaning…..they are simple and straightforward in describing things.

            Many of the stories in TTOTC are told from an accurate understanding of his perspective different ages.

            So, I am focusing on things like: “treasures bold”, “secret where”, the biggie, “WWWH”, “the canyon down”, etc.

            This exercise has allowed me to identify a viable first and second clue. And from there I was able to proceed through “canyon down” and, I think, “too far to walk”. At present I am at HOB. Viewed from this perspective I have identified a HOB that fits perfectly with the preceding clues…..But, there are several of these HOB’s!! Right now, I have it narrowed to possibly two.

            Viewed from this perspective, “not far, but too far to walk” is not a distance, it is what tells you which HOB you must go to….Of course, once you get to HOB, you must then solve Stanza 4 for what you get from HOB.

            Simple example of method–> Hold a three or four year up and let them splash their hands in an above-ground swimming pool. When you set them down, they’ll probably hold their hands up in the air and simply say, “water….High!!” 🙂

            LOL!! OK, I hope I have explained this somewhat, hopefully without giving anything aw