Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Four

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Thanks…

 

dal…

629 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Four

  1. One of Webster’s “put in” intransitive verb definitions suggests “to call at or enter a place; especially a harbor or port”. “In there” might be in a lake. For my narrow perspective, there are a couple of places I’m aware of that match this for Yellowstone Lake, e.g. Grant Village and Bridge Bay. If we agree “pine tree corners” is Home of Charlie Brown, with a double meaning for “pine tree corners” of an arrowhead, and that Dot Island is in the shape of an arrowhead… Perhaps we are to “put in” at Grant Village docks, south of Dot Island?

  2. Seeker:
    One way trip… Plan A or original plan.

    Here’s a thought. I’m sure FF would not just up and leave without family knowing of his final plan [ at least one ] would it be so hard to imagine that someone would have drove him there? I’m sure his family would have honored his last wish.

    No one would drive him there. These plans to go to that place were and are as private a place that he is the only one alive that knows where it is IMO.

    Now whats plan C?
    I will let you know when I find out.

    • Lol, Forrest to Peggy. I am going fishing in the morning, care to go? Peggy: Forrest I have somethings to do in town but you go and enjoy yourself…
      Need I say more?

    • The place would be a secret, the area would not. If we use what we know, fenn made two trips in one afternoon [ time scale ] walked less then a few miles [ distance] that’s a whole lot of area. And who’s is to say the drop off point would be the same as where fenn made the trip in. The man knows the area like the back of his hand.

      Just for fun.. look at hebgen lake or Earth Quake lake area. Dropped off near one of those for instance, how many places are the that can be traveled in an afternoon on foot?

      This is all fun to play the guessing game, but the way fenn went to hide the chest is most likely not the same way he is telling us in the poem. I’ll put my money on the poem to lead me to the chest over, where he parked and walked 3 miles in any one direction, and no information to guide me.

      • New thread… Note this comment was to the suggestion of mode of transportation of FF original plan to go to his final resting place… one way trip. Don’t want to confuse anyone.

          • Ken-
            Just go to the Odds n Ends Archive. Same with earlier Nine Clues pages. All still here. You can access and read from the Searcher’s Discussions menu.

      • I suppose Fenn could have parked at Earthquake Lake Visitor Ctr & then hiked up Rock Creek< plan B of course.
        Something tells me he did not park on a paved surface when he hiked to hide the treasure. I think he would have driven on a gravel road & parked somewhere on the side of that road within short distance of a creek & I don't see this man putting the TC near any paved roads at all. It just doesn't jive with his persona IMO.

        • Yes, I would agree with that.

          And extending that logic, I think we can eliminate all towns, cities, urban areas. I know a few smaller towns have gravel roads, but even these would be subject to utility crews, maintenance men, private owners who could accidentally happen on to the TC.

  3. @Jake, perhaps he was on his trip and accounted for, like at a board meeting for Buffaloaf Bill Center of the West in Cody. My fading memory has a tingly neuron screaming Fenn said Peggy has it narrowed down to 2 weeks in 2010. Can’t cite, please don’t ask.

  4. Oh yea, and could someone tell me again if there is a mtn called cats whiskers or something like that in MT? The upside down Y looks like the front of the cats face.
    Can’t find it. Oh well. Have a great night. 🙂

  5. Am i wrong on this one.did mr
    Forrest still say this location of the treasure is still where he is going to be buried.i know when he had cancer.he was gonna go out when it got bad and do away with himself.but that changed he got well . suicide hurts all your loved ones, so i don’t recommend that one.just to throw that in.

    • Virginia,
      Fenn didn’t say he wanted to be “buried” at all, from what I have read. The only reason I mention this is, the location of the spot. I doubt very much if he would walk 100′ off a parking area to lay under a tree and let nature take it’s course.

      With that said… Who knows what is in his mind for the present or future. Maybe he is satisfied with just the chest being where it is, with his bio and collections and will rest next to love ones in a local cemetery or maybe he’ll take one last road trip…

  6. While researching Eric Sloan I read that he was buried in the La Tierra suburb of Santa Fe. Which is west of the Aqua Fria area. West of there is my old search area of Diablo Canyon…..

    I was wondering, is this the area where FF resides?

    I am not seeking his address, I just want to know if he lives in this area.
    Personally, I hope not. I have no desire to get ‘the bug’ to drive down those sandy roads back there again.

    • Michael, I googled it and Eric is buried in Kent, Connecticut near his museum. Forrest lives in the foothills off of Old Santa Fe Trail…so no need to drive back down Buckman Road, if that was your implication. Been there, done that.

        • Michael,

          Taos, (Forrest)… is about 70 miles from where Eric SloanE once lived, in La Tierra, – (One and a half hour drive.)

          Eric never wanders too far from the journey for me.

        • Michael, We should meet some day and go on a field trip, or go to lunch and swap search stories…I don’t think there’s anywhere I’ve gone that you haven’t already searched. I like to think you might be one of the searchers who got within 200 feet of the treasure…what do you think? If you’re interested, ask Dal to send you my personal email or vice versa…anytime after Super Bowl Sunday should work for me…what else will we have to look forward to until Spring?

  7. One odd-n-end that always catches my eye, page 60 TToTC: “The next day we rode the mountains…looking for something to catch or shoot. There was almost nothing, _but we did shoot one animal that I promised not to talk about._”

    page 63: “A few days later with the luxury of hot chocolate, I made some notes that might be helpful to any future sixteen-year-old geniuses who think looking for Lewis and Clark might be fun: – PORCUPINE MEAT TASTES LIKE KEROSENE”

    Makes me wonder…if Forrest shot it, who had to “pluck” it? Donnie probably got so many quills in his hands and I picture Forrest laughing and Donnie getting ticked and throwing it at him. But details on that little scene will be lost to history if we don’t get the story from someone.

    • DanS,

      The killing of a Canada lynx, would have really been something to keep silent about! If it were a mountain lion; although not good… certainly not close to being half as bad.

      IMO, of course.

      • SL- that is a great observation. It is almost like forrest is stating that he wont talk about the animal, as if the animal has sensitive feelings, which would work in this context, because the Canada Lynx is on a threatened list. However I am not sure when it went on that list. Animals that are sensitive in the wild, not emotional animals.

      • They may have shot at something else but hit cattle. I almost did this very thing. I was tracking a deer, settled down on the ground fired but missed. As I continued forward there were cattle in a clearing but I did not need to buy a dead cow fortunately.

    • Is it safe to assume..1. that WWWH is a hot spring? 2. that rivers such as the firehole, boiling, madison, and adjacent creeks have been searched to death? Anyone that’s searched them want to offer anything about the areas? Thanks

      • 21-
        Heck no..I think a person would be foolish to believe it’s safe to assume anything about the nine clues. There are probably a hundred different ideas for what WWWH could be on this blog alone. Many folks believe it has nothing to do with a hot spring..many do…
        You can read many different ideas for WWWH by reading the stories in Other’s Adventures and on the discussion page Where Warm Waters Halt.

        It’s a hotly contested unknown..so don’t assume…
        On the other hand if a hot spring is what works for you, go ahead and try it out..
        But, in my opinion, don’t swallow the idea completely. Leave room for abandoning that idea if you find something better. I personally believe there are better ideas.

        I think you’re correct in saying that those rivers and many other streams in and on all sides of YNP have been searched and searched again…and then researched. We also know that folks have been within 200 feet of it and missed it…so what does that say about finding it when you are within range?

        In my opinion we need not only search an area but be clever in the way that we look because Forrest was probably clever in the way that he hid it.

        I’ve searched those areas..and continue to search those areas. I figure it will take me another seven years to search that area before I will feel I have done a reasonable job. It’s a HUGE area. Lots of room for more searchers…clever searchers…

        • Nicely said.

          I can’t tell you how many times I have changed my mind about what some purported clue means. In my opinion a searcher would be wise to keep their options open; be flexible about the poem, and be prepared to admit that one’s first or second or third guess may be wrong.

          Until the chest is found, everyone who has searched has been wrong about … something … in the poem.

          Ken

        • Hi Dal,
          Thanks for the feed back. I’ve only seen the area from Google Earth, really a huge search area. Also thanks for pointing me towards the other links. I’ve been going through the site one area at a time, or so I thought…I keep missing stuff here. The guy that finds FF’s treasure is going to be the person that out foxes the fox. A lot more to the search than the poem … for sure.

  8. Dal do you remember this post from the past? I don’t remember this. Is it possible you slipped this in later?

    Forrest,

    Heading out on another search to a spot I think has a lot of merit. I was hoping to get your take on a couple of questions before I head out.

    1) Can you give me the context in which you said the treasure was “in the mountains North of Santa Fe”? It seems a lot of people have taken that phrase and ran with it. My question is whether or not this was intended to be a clue.

    2) Was there significance, beyond an anecdote for the book, of the Horseshoe in “Thrill of the Chase”?

    Forrest responds-

    The treasure chest certainly is in the mountains somewhere north of Santa Fe, and that is a clue. That is not to say it is exactly 360 degrees from Santa Fe, but generally. If you end chasing horseshoes you may go crazy, but it’s the thrill of the chase, remember? Other clues I have given but are not commonly known are: It’s not in Nevada and it is more than 300 miles west of Toledo, but those won’t help you much. Good luck. f

    • I remember it. I don’t think it was added later…it’s possible…but I can’t say. You might be able to tell by looking at the date it was published and checking the internet wayback machine..
      No…I’m not making that up…
      Check it out…

    • I do not recall this precise response but if accurate it supports using it as part of a solve.

  9. I found this article while surfing. I have often wondered if FF pursued lost gold in the RM’s and that his special spot was one where some one had previously hidden gold that became lost for one reason or another. Just one of many and they seem to have some of the key words that are in the poem.
    IMO
    jl

    “Jim and me buried the treasure the morning before the posse attack on Geneva Gulch. You go up above there a little ways and find where one of our horses mired down in a swamp. On up at the head of the gulch we turned to the right and followed the mountain around a little farther, and just above the head of Deer Creek, we found an old prospect hole at about timberline. There, we placed $40,000 in greenbacks, wrapped in silk oil cloth, and three cans of gold dust. We filled the mouth of the hole up with stones, and ten steps below, struck a butcher knife into a tree about four feet from the ground and broke the handle off, and left it pointing toward the mouth of the hole.”

    By all accounts, the money remains buried somewhere in the South Park area.

    • JL,

      Others has speculated the same… fenn finding a lost treasure and hid his with it. My thought is… if it was me, I wouldn’t want others looking for the first lost treasure and stumble across mine after working and planning for years.

      Other thoughts was of an ancient unknown site or such. Yet I don’t think fenn could resist having the site excavated… or worse if the finder decided to dig on his own. And yet another is, he may have found where the Clovis points collection actually came from. That would be an idea for New and Old.

      For whatever fenn’s reason was to pick this location to hide the chest… I don’t think it would be combined with any of those, imo he wants it to be his spot alone.
      Although the Clovis collection location is interesting to think about.

      • Just a thought, I have never found anything conclusive other then, a matching word here and there. jl

  10. One odd and end that catches my eye is the lack of a comma after WWWH. Most seem to be reading is as: “Begin it where warm waters halt, and take it in the canyon down”, implying that the searcher is supposed to take it down. Reading it without the comma (or the pause if you listen to Fenn read it), I believe it’s the warm water that takes “it” in the canyon down, and not the searcher.

    Here’s a sentence I came up with to show the difference:
    Go where people board and ride the train in the canyon down. vs.
    Go where people board, and ride the train in the canyon down.

    In the first sentence, the direction is to go to the place where people take the train in the canyon, but in the second sentence, the direction is to go to the place where people halt, and then to actually ride the train.

    One example of what this could be is directing the searcher to start at the top of a waterfall with warm water or something along those lines.

    • You could drive IT, if your bored nothing to do, you could walk it. I’d drive it myself, if you pay for the gas. I suppose you could motor boat upstream if you wanted to.

    • Interesting Jeff. Using your interpretation where the water takes it down… Perhaps a non-traditional meaning of down may apply as well. Here’s a few I’ve considered.

      Down:
      n. Fine, soft, fluffy feathers forming the first plumage of a young bird

      n. An expanse of rolling, grassy, treeless upland used for grazing.

      n. Any of several breeds of sheep having short wool, originally bred in the Downs of southern England.

      Thanks, punctuation application as it applies to the poem is not my forte’; thus I would enjoy hearing others weigh in. At least there are standard rules. Is there a punctuation thread?

      • Lia, i looked up north and it can mean down also.so I’m getting 360 degrees.as you got so many degrees of north and south.not just north south east and west.like a big circle.i think thats why dal is going all over different places . he’s a smart person.up,down all around.

        • Virginia Diane, nice find! I had not considered north as 0 degrees or circular. Works perfectly with circular method of following clues; also looking for campfires, teepee rings etc. Most days I earn a degree in confusion chasing my own tail.:-)

          I followed your lead and am posting “north” definitions:

          (from The Century Dictionary)
          n. That one of the cardinal points which is on the right hand when one faces in the direction of the setting sun (west); that intersection of the horizon with the meridian which is on the right hand when one is in this position.
          n. A region, tract, or country, or a part of such, lying toward the north pole from some other region or point of reckoning.
          n. Specifically With the definite article: In United States history and politics, those States and Territories which lie north of Maryland, the Ohio river, and Missouri.
          n. The north wind.
          n. Eccles., the side of a church that is on the left hand of one who faces the altar or high altar. See east, 1.
          Being in the north; northern.
          Eccles., situated at or near that side of a church which is to the left of one facing the altar or high altar. Abbreviated N.
          To the north; in the north.
          Nautical, to move or veer toward the north.

          • Exactly, and i have been going all directons on paper with trying to figure out the poem . there’s so many words that mean the same,but could also mean other things.mr.forrest made it hard for sure.or he’s sitting back laughing, saying, its not hard.you just don’t get it.i was thinking about Douglas prestons land.he lives in a tipi.on acres of land in new mexico.but can’t go.but for some reason i still am for colorado.its that gut feeling. But if you think about it.its not just about the rocky Mountains that kinda throw me off . his goal was to get families outdoors in nature and off the couch everywhere.so to me the solve is anyplace you go in any mountain, valley,hills,park,meadows,just outside in general enjoying nature somewhere you are there,at the spot.anything you find that you enjoy is a treasure to that person.like the little birds nest i found on the ground last year in a park in golden.i brought it home and made my ornament out of it,for the contest on dals blog.little things like that is a treasure.but i do know he hid a treasure chest.he don’t lie.he wouldn’t do that to people.so if his chest is found is it a replica and his lawyer has the real one.maybe it says go see his lawyer.i give you title to the gold.deed,title bestow,gift you.all i know is my mind is everywhere. Our mind our heart is with family, even if they are gone,lost in death.i can go back and remember the good times. You see where I’m at. Lost in time anywhere i go that i enjoy,as it takes away all your problems for awhile. I tell you thinking outside the box can be a mess.mr.forrest what are you doing to me.you got me reading,researching, finding birds nest,heart shaped rocks.even the little kids in school like the rocks on the play ground.they bring them inside and put some in their desks or i find some on the floor when i clean the classroom.

  11. Can anyone direct me to when/where ff ever made a statement – Something to the effect that “If you are within 12′ of the treasure, you would be able to see it.”

    Thanks for your help.

  12. Hey fellow seekers….quick question for anyone.

    about 1- 1.5 years ago, I came across a digital enhanced picture of FF in front of a lake and mountain “pass” standing with a “stelae” and his hat floating above his head. I know some of you probably have seen this photo and probably commented on it a while ago….but through all the blogs and responses I have read, for the life of me, I have not yet found out if FF made this or some fan.

    Do any of you know if this is a FF original, basically encapsulating the location in a picture.

    To be honest, I deciphered the lake in the picture, went there and to the exaxct location of where the picture was taken from, searched it for about 3-4 hours and came up empty handed at that time. I am still investigating it to the point of …. Did Forrest create this picture as a memorial to he location….and even the mountain backdrop (a new lead has come my way on this one too).

    Anyhow……

    What do you think? Did FF make this photo or was it a fan? Does anyone think of any validity if Forrest made it? Could it be just a collage of the poem clues with no meaning at all?

    Let’s clear this hurdle.

    Thanks!

      • You are right about it being Dal’s. And I thought it would help.

        The lake….not Avalanche lake ….it is one lake of four in the area. I didn’t do any fishing but did search the point of reference where it was taken from. Interestingly enough I found the lake through just research hard research and lead me to this “Water high”…or mountain lake…AND it was even above 5000 ft….it fit the poem at every mark…AND THEN I came across the digital picture, and just so happen to have matched the picture to my search area. I actually thought I found the golden ticket.

        After further investigation, even the mountain area in the background, is yet another level of the composition. I think i have also deciphered that part of it.l now.

        Anyhow…..

        Why do I continue? Like,yeah, why?

        Interestingly enough both of these lcation actually meet all clues in the poem, whether Dal knew that or not, I don’t know….and for another odd reason I continue, is that both the lake and the mountains are both in the same forest…both on BLM land.

        Odd that many connections to “historical firsts” are also present with both locations. I’ve associated at least four maybe five.

        I’ve also came across clues that he was in the area as a teenager.l with his father.

        In addition to the above comments there are other clues that I’ve come across that can also be applied to what Fenn has said.

        Both arelocations are accessible by a non human trail – game trail? Fenn said something like this.

        Both locations are close enough to a road to allallow Fenn to park and place Indulgence.

        Both locations are within “92 miles I walked” – if using Fenn’s childhood story, “because he could” – home away from home in West Yellowstone, MT (my WWWH = “edge of civilization”)…which Fenn would have used as a kid.

        So do I feel it is a good clue to help,locate indulgence? Maybe…who knows…. Could I be chasing my tale? Maybe who knows. My only hunt so far was to that lake and I may be heading back, because it had ,any unresolved issues that didn’t add up. Oh the clues are still present…but the way the clues could take you was not investigated….we basically stayed at the lake and searched that area.

        Well that is my explanation….thank ou Dal for revealing the !! wild behind the picture….but maybe you didn’t…..and suconsiously you were actually solving it…..*winks*….

        Cheers and happy hunting!

  13. From the Santa Fe New Mexican-
    May 16th, 2015
    by Bruce Krasnow

    In one recent video interview, Fenn described the treasure as being “wet” and many assumed it was hidden in a river or waterfall, and that was new information.
    It wasn’t.
    “How can anything be in the Rocky Mountains and not be wet,” he said. “Even if it were buried six feet deep, it would still be wet. That’s not a real clue.”

    This and many other helpful quotes from Forrest can be found in the Media Coverage post on this very blog. Hear and read the interviews first hand….

    • I understand what you’re saying Dal, and I believe the chest is not buried or in a creek lake or stream. Go to any you tube video of people finding containers in, either the water or underground, and upon opening they are full of muck and mud. only a completely AIR TIGHT container can protect that from happening. The chest is not that. Forrest, I guarantee you, thought of that outcome when hiding it.

      • iron will…. i think your’re wrong. just IMHO. I need to go ahead and send a page of my writings to Dal for him to post. it will explain.

        • Imo forrest had a play on words whet means an object of desire so the chest could be whet and dry

          • And mr. Fenn is apart of the mountains and his life and memories are plastered on the mountains this will lead to the chest imo

          • That has been my take on his comment as well. Nice to see you around old Choctaw.

            Which state do you search?
            Wanna search Montana. Have 2 solve(s) will pay for rental car and gas. – Lia

          • Lia would love to but my heart and work on this solve is in new mexico and I love to hear everyone’s solves and it use to make me second guess my own but the place I’m in has forrest fenn all over it have made a couple attempts and each time you learn the lay of the land and all the time I have known where exactly to go but being a flat lander I have battled altitude but next attempt I’ll stay a couple days and aclimate but would love to meet everyone face to face instead letters on a page and maybe some day it will happen but this solve is just my opinion and don’t want to count my eggs before they hatch but very promising alot of family members have said an old man couldn’t make that hike and I tell them I don’t know him personally but this man is a man’s man and there’s no doubt in my mind that forrest could do this like a walk in the park

          • Old Choctaw – thanks for responding, and best of luck in New Mexico. NM makes the most sence..I search Montana and Wyoming because I know the areas – which i realize is an illogical reason to prove the correct location. Best to you.

        • I have lately thought that the chest is buried at 6 feet deep. I cannot think of a more logical way within the poem, that the chest is sitting there in the open. That would be the easiest way for someone to stumble upon it. The hardest way for someone to stumble upon it, would be if it were buried deep, along with a blaze that is buried on top of it. So once you find the blaze, you still have to keep digging. Probably a Bell or Jar is buried at 3 ft, and 3 more feet below that is the chest. That makes it 6 ft. A good metal detector can find the jar or bell, and then you can find the chest if you are wise enough to keep digging.

          • My thought as well, very deep. Many have been out looking based off the surface text. Below that surface text is a whole other world to explore. I mean puns on words alone are all through this poem. Example all, awl, where wear.

          • Hammertime –

            I find your theory fascinating.

            Could you maybe tell me why you feel it’s at 6 ft? Bell or jar at 3 ft?

            I am at three feet in digging – but no jar or bell yet – and that is after finding a “X”.

            Pls note – I said a X and not THE x ………. I”m pretty sure it’s right but so far it’s not there………….

          • Sometimes you just have to ask every possible question to figure things out. If you look at the number 9 in the mirror, it might look like an “e”, or an upside down “6”, or the letter “g”. It is all how you interpret things. You have to ask questions to find the answers. And after all the questions I have asked myself and after looking at every single angle that I can possibly think of within this chase, The most logical answer I can come up with is that the chest is certainly buried. I just cannot imagine, that after spending/putting all that time and effort into that poem, that there was absolutely nothing left on the table. The only way that someone could pull this off like Fenn has, is if that person gave their life 110% effort, one hundred percent of the time. If you are capable of doing such a thing, then you are capable of leaving behind a legacy that will forever run though our veins. So using that character, I have to become that character, and to become that character, I have to do everything thing that I can imagine at 110% effort, one hundred percent of the time. There is no other option the way I see it.

          • The problem with going 6ft deep – is a cave in….. I spoke to my brother who is a geologist, and he told me to be very careful at that depth. I wouldn’t put it past Forrest to have done this as the digging is very easy……..not a lot of rocks etc. At three feet I hit sand…. used the metal detector and nothing – but if he wrapped the chest in asbestos – a detector would not pick it up.

          • I believe that the blaze is buried, and the only way to find the blaze is with a metal detector. I don think there are any markings or carvings, near where the blaze is buried. It will most likely be near an intersection of a creek running into a river somewhere in the woods. Very near a fence line that marks off private property to public land or such (200 ft. rule). When you figure that out, and use a detector in the area in which the creek ends at the river, then you will most likely pick up a signal somewhere close. You will dig there and realize that you were in the correct spot, and then keep digging, because you just figured out the poem. I cant think of a reason why Forrest Fenn would make a treasure hunt for the entire world, without making them use a metal detector. Every single treasure hunter on the planet uses a metal detector. He doesnt tell you these things, because he wants you to figure them out. That is the point. Find the treasure, by figuring things out, not just guessing, and assuming. You have to look at each and every possible angle. And forget what anyone says, because it is YOUR imagination. Fenn wants you to use it, and quit guessing and assuming.

          • I’m not sure if I remember correctly, but didn’t Mr. Fenn once say tools weren’t needed/necessary for his treasure hunt? Also, didn’t Mr. Fenn rule out caves; one that must be entered physically?

          • Hammer –

            I agree with all you said above – the only thing I would add is the barbed wire – very old- laying on the ground and not in use anymore. 🙂

            I don’t think a metal detector is necessary or a “have to have” tool – but it could be useful. I do think we are adding a shovel to the mix…

            Cholly –

            I used to think like you – until I found – what I found. If you look at the last two sentences in the poem – it’s

            If you are brave and in the woo(D
            I G) ive you title to the gold.

          • Hammer we are very similar in our thinking. I called a major metal detector maker and they told me that is what treasure hiders do. They go deep with anything that valuable. I think a landmark is near but it is up to you the searcher to do the rest of the foot work. By landmark I’m talking a rock or pile of rocks. Of course all of this is just my opinion. Officially the treasure is “hidden”

          • To Hammertime, into and Buried deep: he said something in a recent interview – essentially that recovering the chest by the solver would not be a great endeavor, or not require a lot of effort, or something to that effect. I think if you’re having to dig a hole with a shovel you may not be in the right place. Maybe someone knows where that video footage is.

  14. The Spanish and Indians renamed Colorado’s …”The Great American Desert.” to:

    The Wet Mountains.

    Some interesting information to learn there. IMO.

  15. @hammer and info, I have to disagree with your buried line of thinking in that it’s been stated that a person who would be within 12 feet would probably not miss it or something like that, and a child could get to it as well. No offense, enjoy reading what you both post as well as most everyone on here but when I find the TC it will not be buried, just artfully hidden in plan site, camo in natural surroundings….There is probably something like a berry bush or cacti that makes folks not to go a certain way toward the finale spot….IMO

    • Cholly, thanks for restating some of the important end game, boots on ground statements ff has made…all of which are available here on dal’s blog or at Mysterious Writings.
      He never said not in a cave, he did state it’s not in a mine or a tunnel as those can be dangerous.[paraphrased]. I believe he also said a metal detector would only be helpful if you were exactly in the right place.

    • Little tricky in words/meanings. It’s hidden, not buried. Doesn’t want to give that as a clue. Clever gentleman, if I do say so myself.

      • @pdenver: you asked if ff ruled out ‘caves’ …..I think/know that he ruled out old mines and tunnels but a small cave like the one he searched and found the needle and thread wrapped around the stone tool after spotting the old snuff bottle (hint of old and new) and then dug around in the old fire pit (scrape book # something)….that sort of cave isn’t that far back from the opening and not so unsafe, IMO….

    • 21-
      This is an important point and one that Forrest has repeated over and over. Many interviewers start out their interrogation of Forrest by saying something like:

      Forrest, what made you decide to bury a treasure in the mountains?

      To which Forrest responds..over and over again:
      “I never said it was buried. I said that I hid it. Which doesn’t mean it isn’t buried. But I’m not going to give that out as a clue.”

      No matter how many times Forrest makes this statement folks just constantly say that Forrest buried a treasure chest. He’s never said that….okay once he said that but he was twisted up when he said it…

      The take-away is that it is not a given that it’s buried. It might be. It might also just be stashed in a cave or stashed under a rock or laying out in the open…He has not ruled out the potential for being buried and he has not guaranteed that it is not buried.

      He has said other things which lead some to believe it’s buried..
      He has said other things which lead some to believe it is not buried…

      I fall into the “not buried” clan.
      This doesn’t mean I don’t look under things like rocks and bushes.
      This does not mean I don’t explore caverns and holes…

      In fact, I think the reason he does not want to be trapped saying it’s buried or not buried is because although he didn’t dig a hole, place the chest in the hole and then throw dirt back on top….
      The chest might be in/under something and therefore certainly hidden from view…
      and by some definition other than mine, some folks would call that buried…

      My point is that, once again, it’s a good idea to keep your mind open about what “hidden” means…

    • If it’s buried or not, who knows and really, doesn’t matter. If you’re there, then you’ve figured it all out and you’ll know what to do. Do you really think Forrest used all this energy to dig a 6′ hole? Maybe hole was there, whatever, I don’t think he made it very difficult on himself. 20-42 lbs. gets heavy, even for Forrest. I don’t see him beating himself up. and I don’t see him wasting time in the area.

      • Agreed. If it’s as well hidden as he hints, there’s no real need to bury. Plus, like you said, that’s a LOT more work for him. I just really don’t think it’s buried at all.

  16. I would love to see another book store video again of Forrest.. that one in 2013 was awesome.. the question/answer interrogation session was Great with Forrest! Dal, and everyone who is close to Forrest please convince him to do another video like that one with good clear audio…

    Peace Out, Safe Searching, and Happy New Year!
    Justin

  17. Concluding that the treasure chest is “buried” sounds to me like some searcher is giving up on ever finding it. When all else fails just say … it’s buried. That way when nobody finds it after so many years, the searcher can then say … see, I told you no one would find it, ’cause it’s buried.

    If I thought for a moment that the chest was buried, I’d be out of this treasure hunt business in a microsecond. For FF to have buried a chest even under a foot or two of dirt would strike me as deceptive and cruel. And deceptive cruel are NOT words I would use to describe FF. Further …

    On some land it is illegal to dig. Do searchers actually think FF would require they do something illegal?

    Maybe some searchers just don’t have much of an imagination. Or maybe they underestimate the vastness of the territory between Santa Fe and the Canadian border.

    Ken

    • Aren’t opinions great we all have one. Good luck! When I see Forrest using words like “lost” it makes me wanna get out too. As I say good luck.

      I read this weeks comment as its lost and you’ll need frequency to find it. Ya I know it’s an opinion.

      Forrest for Jan. 15th, 2016 are as follows:

      *A good solve is frequently lost in a poor execution.

  18. New comment from Mr. Fenn, on Jenny’s site:

    Weekly Words…January 15, 2016

    ‘A good solve is frequently lost in a poor execution.’

  19. All,

    After reading through TTOTC again last night I’m starting to believe that ff may have placed the chest in the evening (boldly) under the cover of night. There are a lot of references to this through out the book. Any one else come up with this possibility?

    Seannm

    • Hello Seannm. It seems to me it could be a good possibility, although I feel there might be something more to it. Some have considered space and all that it entails.

      • PD,

        I know he said it took him two trips and he completed it in one “afternoon”, but as he has stated in his book he tends to bend a little.

        As to you Buried/Hidden question, I’m in the hidden camp as it has been said that the chest is exposed and if someone was within 12 ft of the the TC they should be able to locate it.

        Seannm.

        • Hello Seannm. Thank you for your response. I, too, feel it is “hidden,” but can understand how both “hidden” and “buried” have similar meanings…”Out of one’s sight; undercover.” Even in “plain sight” people can miss things. Can I see a show of hands? Mine is up.

      • All,

        Another thought that came to mind last night was that ff has stated that he hide the chest in a place that was “special / fond / dear” to him in several different interviews. I have always thought that this meant the exact location of the TC was the special place and never until recently considered that this special place could mean an entire region IE State / National Park / National Forrest ECT.

        Thoughts…

        Seannm

    • And with my treasures bold. Bold simply means “in front of me”. so therefore the hiding spot isn’t too big of a hole/cavity. IMHO

        • If I shared that, it might unlock a secret which I don’t want to share. Just did deeper buried deep. You have to think and NOT take things literally is one key…. Yet at time it IS literal. That’s what’s so darned hard.

  20. I’d like to pose these questions to searchers about “hidden” vs. “buried”:

    Should the treasure chest be under a rock or pile of rocks, would you consider it “hidden” or “buried”?

    There are those who feel it may be in water. Would you consider the treasure chest “hidden” or “buried”?

    • In this context, my interpretation of “buried” is that digging with a shovel or other equipment would be needed. My interpretation of “hidden” is that equipment is not needed, e.g. in a crevice, under an overhang, somewhere that it would be improbable to miss if standing within 12′. He says the clues take you right to it, so I’m assuming once understood, the difference of “buried” and “hidden” won’t be a problem.

  21. Re-reading TTOTC, he mentions (I think twice) that it his ninth book. Others have counted it as his eighth. Anyone know if there’s been any comments/discussion on that I can read?

    • Hey Jeremy – he says on the first page that that is his ninth book in twenty-six years ….

      • Hello Spoon. This is true. Now go to the back cover sleeve and read the books shown.

        1. The African Animals of W. R. Leigh
        2. The Beat of the Drum and Whoop of the Dance
        3. The Genius of Nicolai Fechin
        4. The Secrets of San Lazaro Pueblo
        5. Teepee Smoke
        6. Historic American Indian Dolls
        7. Seven Dollars a Square Inch

        The Thrill of The Chase would appear to be #8

        Others have mentioned the autobiography in the treasure chest would/could be counted as one. Which would make your comment as correct. The question is, do we count the autobiography inside the treasure chest as a book?

        • Another thought occurred to me. Mr. Fenn states “The Thrill of the Chase” is his 9th book. If his autobiography inside the chest isn’t counted as a book, then “8” may be a hint at something. Others have suggested the Infinite sign. Space? Something else? What are your thoughts?

          • Hello Jake. Thank you for your reply. The autobiography of 20,000 words, if I’m not mistaken on the word count, is on paper, in very fine print, and placed in a sealed jar. In simple thought, I would have associated it with pages within hardbound covers, such as his other books he’s written. I definitely understand your explanation. Once again, thank you.

          • Regarding 8 or 9 books: Just a guess here…maybe Forrest has written another book, but it’s not yet published or is published but not released for some reason.

          • Hello lia. The book count has changed since then. He’s written “Too Far To Walk” and “Leon Gaspard The Call of Distant Places.” I believe he may have more stories in the works, but I’m not sure if he’ll publish them. He’s made comments about it/them. I hope he does. In my opinion, he’s a very good author. I wish I knew if Mr. Fenn considers his autobiography, in the treasure chest, as a book.

          • pdenver, we all have our own opinions & I respect them all, but to be honest with you, the point of the number of books doesn’t help anybody in finding the treasure except for TTOTC & TFTW as far as books are concerned. When someone(s) find the treasure, they will see & read the book in the chest & realize they are reading a story of a mans life, which IS a book. It does not need to be hardcover, published, paperback, snake skin, stone, tree bark, this is not what qualifies it as a book. If it is a story whether digital, carved, printed, typed, painted or written. Whether the story is fictional or nonfiction. It may have pictures or drawings. It might be written on toilet paper, napkin or a place mat. If it tells a story = It is a book IMO.

          • Lia, just because a written piece is not published, does not disqualify it for being a book. Look up the definition of “book” & I think you will be satisfied.

        • Pdenver-
          That’s a great list..
          He has written two books since..
          TTOTC and TFTW..
          That would be numbers 8 and 9..
          I don’t think he counts his bio in the chest…

          • Thank you Dal for your response. I truly do appreciate it. I feel the same way as you as to whether or not the autobiography should be counted. In my reply to lia at 3:10 p.m. above, I listed more books written by Mr. Fenn. Can’t forget his newest, “Leon Gaspard The Call of Distant Places”! You were there for the interview with Mr. Fenn. 🙂

          • Can’t forget the Leon Gaspard book signing you attended. Or, was that your evil twin in the photos we’ve seen on your blog getting you in trouble? 🙂

          • In TTOTC (preface) page 4, it states ‘This book is my ninth in twenty-six years…’. Was TFTW written by this time of this statement? If we don’t count the autobiography in the treasure chest as a book, and the seven books that are shown on the inside, back cover sleeve are his first seven books, where/what is #8?

          • @pdenver … I’m siding with the people who said he might have been talking about unpublished works or books he contributed to. If you do a search on Google Books, there’s a number of works not listed on the dust jacket that he had a part in. What makes it stick out is that in the book it says it’s his “ninth book”, while the dust jacket says it’s his “eight book”.

            May just be nothing. I like the JD Salinger Nine Stories angle, though.

          • Hi Jeremy P. Thank you for your response. Would you be so kind to explain, ‘JD Salinger Nine Stories angle’, please? I’m drawing a blank.

        • The autobiography in the chest, according to TTOTC, is 20,000 words. The word count of TTOTC, according to FF, is 28,800. The balance of probability is that the book in the chest is the same, or essentially the same, as the TTOTC.

          • Call it cabin fever (or symptoms of spending too much time thinking about the Chase) but when I see nine books in twenty-six years when there’s supposed to be eight, and that sort of anomaly in appears in a book that itself has twenty-seven sections of stories (maybe ignore the Preface?), and a reference to JD Salinger, I’m suddenly wondering what Nine Stories I’m supposed to be paying attention to 🙂

            Maybe I’ll take a break from research this weekend and go for a hike.

          • Jeremy,
            The 9 books and 26 years made me wonder if there are 2 missing lines to the poem. 9 clues 24 lines + 2 = 26. It seems to be useless info and maybe I should take a break and go for a hike too.

          • I keep telling the guys carrying a white jacket at my front door to go away! I hope Mr. Fenn enjoys the laughter as much as we do. I’ll wear my permanent laugh lines proudly, thanks to him. Ha!

    • There has been discussions about it all over the blogs. I don’t think there is any one place [ like threads ] that you will find it. But let think about this from an aberration… or something different. 8 books to 9 books, In the middle, Missing D in knowledge, etc. There are quite few things that seem “different’ through out the book. and even in some comments

      Now take the poem, 9 clues and some can say they have 8 solved [ with in reason]. Is a clue missing? or just not understood for one reason or another, such as the blaze or the last clue.
      Is the blaze a single object… in a word Yes
      Is the blaze in the poem or only in the field… unanswered [ but took 30 mins not to answer.
      Doesn’t believe the blaze can be found by driving down the road looking for it, that would be a miracle. And other comments on the blaze.
      And there is the semi colon, that connect stanza 2 IMO as a single sentence, yet at the same disconnects / separates them.

      Could all those and other comments be subtle hints that, the 9th clue is something that is not so much missing, but “We” need to create or discover within the poem and on sight? Not saying the blaze is not a clue … the answer to what it refers to is. And, maybe it’s the only actual way to precisely locate the chest.

      Question posted 5/28/2014:

      Is the Blaze one single object? ~ Scout Around

      In a word – Yes

      I have received a few hundred emails from searchers who are sure they know what the blaze is. Ideas range from a mark on a tree, a rock, a sign, a fire, the side of a bluff, a waterfall, a spot on the head of a horse, a rainbow, and even a live owl that flew away when it was approached.

      As a side note: with summer on the close horizon, searchers should review the rules about being safe in the mountains. f

      Is the 9th clue something that we have to “plan” for?

    • OK, following the crazy (arguably original) idea out:

      Preface to TTOTC: “This book is my ninth in twenty-six years of casually recounting the things I enjoy most.”

      Dust jacket to TTOTC: “This is his eighth book…”

      Other books listed on the dust jacket:

      1980, The African Animals of W.R. Leigh
      1983, The Beat of the Drum and The Whoop of the Dance
      2001, The Genius of Nicolai Fechin
      2004, The Secrets of San Lazaro Pueblo
      2007, Teepee Smoke
      2007, Historic American Indian Dolls
      2007, Seventeen Dollars a Square Inch

      (Dates added by myself)

      The book count anomaly calls attention to the books. The year anomaly (it’s actually 27 years of books) calls attention to the years.

      There are 27 chapters or sections of TTOTC. 27 chapters of stories from his life.

      The chapter “Important Literature” heavily talks about the influence of JD Salinger. JD Salinger wrote the book Nine Stories.

      Nine clues.

      If we go by the hint to follow the book publish years, we need to look for clues/hints in stories 1, 3, 21, 24, and three in 27.

        • I realize that might be a little confusing how I wrote it 🙂

          Ignore the nine clues part, that has nothing to do with it (dunno why I put that in there).

          So, the TTOTC is a book of stories, with 27 chapters.

          In this idea, the Nine Books Anomaly would say to look at the books.

          The Years Anomaly would say to look at the years (there’s 27 years and 27 chapters of stories).

          The JD Salinger Nine Stories tie, the Nine Books Anomaly, and the Years Anomaly would have us look the stories in the 27 chapters by the nine book years, looking at the stories that line up with the book years.

          Yeah, that makes a little more sense. (Maybe)

          • I commend you on our hard work. I read your chart the other day and printed it out.

            I finished rereading “TTOTC” a few days ago and have started rereading “TFTW” the other day. I can recite the poem, but perhaps I should learn to recite the poem with its punctuation marks. Gosh, where’s the Ibuprofen? (Ibupro-fenn) 🙂

        • I should probably mention that I’m not 100% serious here. I just think they are interesting anomalies and this might be a way of explaining them. If someone gets something out of this, that’d be really great. But personally I’m just trying to convince myself one way or another whether the number “nine” is an arbitrary clue count or if that number that is meaningful to FF in some way.

          I should have said that from the start. 🙂

          But it is an interesting discrepancy, and the 27 chapters matching the 27 year publications could be meaningful. 27 is also divisible by nine with no remainder.

          I need to stop obsessing over “nine”.

          • Here’s my numbers analysis of the poem:
            http://goo.gl/UsRcgp

            Eight actually shows up way more than nine. Nine only shows up on the sentence and vowel counts. Eight appears a lot more in the TTOTC too. I’m heavily leaning towards “nine” isn’t meaningful.

          • Speaking of 8, the fact that only three lines don’t match the 8 syllable count really stands out. 3 lines out of 24, leaving 21 matching. And now I’m back to 7 previous books times 3 equals 21 and 27 chapters divided by 3 equals 9.

            That’s it. I’m outta here.

          • Looks like I pressed the wrong Reply button. I commented above your 6:16 pm comment. Hope I do this one correctly.

            Anyone have any Tylenol for Jeremy??? Hang in there! 🙂

          • Jeremy,
            I was hooked on nines too. EOF =99
            99=two omegas
            The only way out of a loop. Too funny! 😉

      • How did you get the chapter numbers. If 3 are in chapter 27 because of year 2007, then why not chapter 9? 1980 could be 18 or 9, so how did you get chapter 1? Not following your logic.

        • I had to go back and look. It was based on 27 years, 27 chapters.

          If 1980 = Chapter 1 Then
          Skip 1981 (Chapter 2)
          Skip 1982 (Chapter 3)
          1983 = Chapter 4 (Corrected)
          Skip 1984-2000 (Chapters 5 – 21)
          2001 = Chapter 22 (Corrected)
          Skip 2002 (Chapter 23)
          Skip 2003 (Chapter 24)
          2004 = Chapter 25 (Corrected)
          Skip 2005 (Chapter 26)
          Skip 2006 (Chapter 27)
          2007 = Chapter 28 (Corrected)

          There’s actually 28 years.

          Since there aren’t 28 chapters of stories, this idea is bunk. If we said 1980 is Chapter 0,Year 0, then it would have worked.

          • Actually, you know what? I’m going to pull a Fenn-style twist here. I’m going to say (and adamantly defend) that the Preface is actually two sections. The first is titled Preface and the second section is untitled, starting on page 6. If you check, you can clearly see that there are two sections to this part of the book, thus 28 sections in total 🙂

            28 years. 28 sections. The crazy idea stands.

  22. What if the treasure is both hidden,and buried? Some searcher like short- cuts.I think we may be asking the wrong questions. If searchers believe they are going to find the treasure chest like that I think they are wrong. We are underestimating Mr. Fenn. The only way one can find the treasure is by thinking about the poem, and what the clues mean. I don’t think anybody can just happen unto it. Mr. Fenn thinks in simple terms, and it is my understanding that nothing about the clues is what we make them to be.

    I would like to touch on something else if I may. All of this mystery about the treasure chest, does anybody find it weird, or unusual that Mr. Fenn is talking about a secret, clues, and a treasure chest? What gave him the idea of doing this? He did not do this out of the blue. I have been researching around this topic and have found some interesting evidence. Does anybody have an opinion about how Mr. Fenn got the idea of secreting, and why does he use all those terms? Nothing is a coincidence. This topic will not get anybody physically closer to the treasure chest, but can shine a little light on the subject. All this is my opinion. RC.

    • “….talking about a secret, clues, and a treasure chest?”

      Simple answer is, it’s a mystery. The hunt that is… We have been told he thought of this because he asked “why can’t I take it with me” and the challenge was to find him and his treasures.
      As to the word; secret has been used as hidden, clues are to show you the way, treasures are possessions/valuables important to one, chest is the container of those valuables.

      So ya got my curiosity up… what are your thoughts?

    • @rc, I have been thinking about the same thing. The secret…? If I was to give an answer, I would say it’s between he and Skippy, or his father. I keep getting these three every where. I’m under the impression it will all be revealed in that 20,000 word auto of his.
      I know he misses both, but I find a lot of info towards his father in that respect. It’s something about those three. In fact, for me, finding the spot reflects around those three, IMO. Forrest above ground and dates, Skippy the instrument that casts the shadow (standing up), and his missing father.
      You are right, IMO, there is a secret that Forrest has. All this time bottled up…? hmmm, maybe that’s what the chase is, a secret he’s dying to tell before he goes to the one or few that will understand.

      • Don’t you think ,mr.forrest told his dad,i promise to go get skippy.as mr.forrest said he had to bribe the mexican officals to bring skippys body back. I am also one who thinks of William and William and forest. 2 williams and 1 forest. Just thinking here.so sad to hear of the missing searcher.not good news to hear.i live not that far from bromfield,colorado,just down the road in arvada,co. Not good at all.

  23. I do not doubt that at all, Charlie. Forrest Fenn has depths that only he knows how to reach.

  24. The answers I already know. If Forrest knows the answers, then what do we have. Anyone?

  25. Hey everybody,

    New here with a question. Hope this is in the right thread.

    I just saw a interview with FF from 25 Nov. 2015 that states he’s positive
    that the TC is still there, although he can’t say how he knows.

    To my research he hasn’t been back there, for fear of being followed. So how can he be so positive?

    Somebody could have found it and just not said anything. I’m not being negative, I have my solve and leaving next Saturday with my son to take a look. Just curious to other people’s thoughts that’s all.

    Thx
    Tony

    Here’s the link: man-says-2-million-treasure-hidden-in-rocky-mountains-can-you-find-it

    • Hey Tony, welcome, and good luck. As far as Forrest knowing that the chest is still there, nobody on these blogs will be able to answer that for you. It has been a question for a long time. “How does he know”? The simple answer is, we don’t know. Some people may give you some thoughts on what they think, but, the answer is always the same, we don’t know. And nobody does except Forrest.

      You will find a wealth of knowledge on this blog and people eager to help, so again, welcome.

  26. Could Forrest’s 20,000 word autobiography included in the chest also be deemed a “book?”

    • Jake,

      You explained it perfectly, (book). Thank you!

      Another thought crossed my simple mind:

      Would it be too far out there to consider that when Forrest wrote the following Chest message, he included ; “I give you the title to the gold”… that he was literally giving the successful Searcher of the chest his permission/rights:

      To publish his autobiography, using ‘that’ (title)

      SL

      *I know….here I go again!

      • SL,
        It’s possible that is what he was doing, I doubt it heavily though, but I do recall Forrest saying something to the effect that he actually hid the treasure itself & there is no “title” or document at the hiding spot stating where the treasure is.
        OK, Seeker or someone, help me out here.
        I know I read it somewhere.
        Here come the guys in the white coats, hurry….

        • Do you mean this?

          “…There are no notes to be found or safety deposit boxes to be searched. The clues can lead you to the treasure, and it will be there waiting when you arrive.”

          • Hope the guys in the white coats didn’t get Jake! I’ll come and get you Jake, just as soon as I get out of my new white coat! 🙂

        • I’m not exactly sure of the quote you’re talking about Jake. Spallies has one. and another was, I believe fenn having fun with someone who e-mailed him:
          ~
          Forrest-
          I have figured out there is no treasure.  This is a medical study being done by Dr. Fenn concerning the use of riddles to help delay the effects of Alzheimers Disease.
          We are the case study to prove his theory that by doing riddles helps your ability to keep your mind healthy.  This will soon be published in the PubMeds that are available to all doctors.  The population at large will only get a brief overview of the complete study, which will more then likely not help much.
          Looking forward to receiving your memoir, researching has been a lot of fun for my son and me.  He is very excited about our trip.  Which I think will be in June for 2 weeks.
          I am concerned about one thing about the quest, should I carry a firearm (as laws permit)?  Its more to do with safety with wildlife there, then protecting from other people.  But I guess that wouldn’t be a bad idea either.
          Hope all is well

          Bruce-
          I hid the treasure chest at the first onset of dementia. I knew I had a disease so I made myself a note that revealed the exact location because I wanted later on to give some additional clues. Now I don’t remember where I put the note. Maybe if I search my fishing box I can find what it is that I was looking for. But why would I want to fish in this weather? I’ll go ask my wife Phyllis where my tool kit is.
          ~
          I get a chuckle every time I read this…

    • God speed. Prayers also going out to loved ones; including his buddy, (dog),…..and loyal companion ~

    • Yeah that’s a sad story, of someone so obsessed that they would abandon safety. I understand him though. I was the same way a year ago. I just couldn’t wait for Spring. So in January I went out west to move a 500 pound rock and break it in half. I arrived to 15 degrees and 16 inches of snow, and here I was in non insulated combat boots, jeans and a non insulated hoodie. Working in that frigid temp, with snow up to my knees, I had to go buy a pair of insulated/waterproof gloves, because mine were soaked and my hands had gone numb. It was a wasted trip and wasted money, and I don’t know why I had so much urgency to get out there. But now, given this news story, I at least understand a little bit of how he felt searching in the middle of Winter. 🙁

      • Gosh. Thank you for the post, Jeremy. I can’t imagine those who attended the book signing are feeling. To his family and friends and those who care, a big hug to you.

      • I don’t know how much I want to comment on this sad event… Yet I was wondering if it would be helpful to the search n rescue efforts, if anyone knew or heard of his solve. Maybe they can trace his actions from it. From the reading of the story, it appears to be a river accident… but it’s possible that the dog made it back to the raft from where ever the searcher may be at.

        Scenario; Made the boat trip or crossing, and set out on foot to the next clue/ destination. And unable to return, for whatever reason. I hope this ends well and applaud the search n rescue folks for their efforts as well.

      • Just as tough as if we lost you, or anyone else in the blog family. 🙂
        I pray Randy went prepared and is found safe.

    • They didn’t say which side of the river his boat was found on.
      If I were to guess, I think that he was headed to the bottom of Frijoles canyon. The Falls Trail used to go all the way down to the Rio Grande. But since it was flooded out below the upper falls, the only way to get down there is by boat. The other side of the river is a difficult area below sagebrush flats. There are old ranch ruins and native archeology, BUT it is very difficult there. It’s no place for an 80 year old or anybody else.

  27. This is terrible news. I recall talking to him briefly at La Fonda. I wonder if there’s a way for authorities to track his latest online research or notes to see where he might have been headed…. I hope he’s found soon and he’s alright.

  28. The other day I had asked if you all knew where I had read that f had stated it took the right thinking and the right person. I found it in my notes. Don’t know the source that Wolfe was using but: (we have proven f said the third bullet but not the second)

    “As I have written in my book, Mr. Fenn is like a magician and he will draw your attention with something and use the sleight of hand to hide the true message.  Mr. Briggs is the draw but what is the hidden message? If one listens to the interview carefully there were at least three quotes that stuck out:”
     
    * “There are so many people out there that know a little bit about it but not a lot, but there are a few getting close”
    * “Well it doesn’t take … you just have to think the right things …” 
    * “The treasure is there waiting for the right person …”

  29. Since Forrest said a comprehensive knowledge of Geography would be helpful, thought I would look into what Geography encompasses:

    Geography is the answer to the question that the earliest humans asked, “What’s over there?” Exploration and the discovery of new places, new cultures, and new ideas have always been basic components of geography.

    Thus, geography is often called the “mother of all sciences” as studying other people and other places led to other scientific fields such as biology, anthropology, geology, mathematics, astronomy, chemistry, among others.

    Geography is commonly divided into two major branches – cultural geography (also called human geography) and physical geography.

    Cultural geography is the branch of geography dealing with human culture and its impact on the Earth. Cultural geographers study languages, religion, foods, building styles, urban areas, agriculture, transportation systems, politics, economies, population and demographics, and more.

    Physical geography is the branch of geography dealing with the natural features of the Earth, the home of humans.

    Physical geography looks at the water, air, animals, and land of the planet Earth (i.e. everything that is part of the four spheres – the atmosphere, biosphere, hydrosphere, lithosphere).

    Other key areas of geography include regional geography (which involves the in-depth study and knowledge of a particular region and its cultural as well as its physical characteristics) and geographic technologies like GPS (global positioning system).

    Source: http://geography.about.com/od/studygeography/a/geog101.htm

  30. Fenn has described himself as a maverick which is a sibiling to a rogue.. wonder if he would feel the term is accurate? I mean he seems to go by his own rulls could this what makes The Chase a Big chalenge. 🙁

    • When you leave a reply.i believe you check the two white boxes below,then dal will send you a note.you hit subscribe or submit,it will take you to another page.click off that and your subscribed if i remember right

  31. I think you guys are looking into this way to hard! The amount of 9’s, how many books, 27’s! You are putting way to much thought into this. Look at the wording. Slides, music reference, put in or a parking lot, a creek without a paddle! I hope I know where it is but I can’t get out there as I live on the east coast, but there maybe a chance in the summer. And as for those that say it is buried, didn’t Mr. Fenn say a child could bend over today and pick it up, or something to that effect.

    • I think numbers won’t do us any good.just the poem and knowledge of geography. Hope they find randy soon.here in colorado right now ,we have a lost hiker in the high country and its snowy and windy up there.

    • just don’t fall in that trap of taking the poem for face value. solve the poem…as far as numbers, you know my take.

  32. Who cares about the poem,chase right now,all that counts is hoping to find randy ok.i hope all the searchers turn over everything looking for him.i don’t understand why the police won’t take leo out there to the truck to get a scent of randy and see if leo can pick up his trail,unless his scent is gone by now.randy would not of left leo at all . he’s a tiny dog.cayotes,mountain lions,etc. To get the dog.no way he would of done that.i think he would not try to climb anywhere without leo.people need to pray for randy.

  33. While this is tragic and we all hope and pray that they find him, there is nothing that 99 percent of us can do, other than pray. Most of us don’t live in that state are not rescue workers or have a knowledge of how to help. I do agree with you about the. Dog! Why not take Leo back down and just tell him to get his daddy, and follow him. With the amount of small caves in the area, my best guess is that he is stuck in one.
    Follow the dog!!!

  34. I noticed in the comic book Action Comic’s 1(First superman). It has Superman throwing an Old plymouth automobile on the cover. However there is also a page in it called “Odds n Ends”. I thought it was funny. Maybe the chest is also an “S”. And that is the mystery for the “answer/answerS”? S on the chest.

    • That is interestingly odd that you found the “Odds n Ends” in a first edition Superman. Do you have a copy?

      • Lol I wish. No. I found it on Wikipedia. I had a hunch that Christopher Reeves may have had some influence with Fenn at some point, with the horse riding and acting and being paralyzed. So I looked up the first superman comic and seen that.

  35. I think Forrest wants people to have a transformative experience doing this search. The golden frogs represent transformation. In times long ago people had to go through a trial period (like Native Americans) where they were tested before they became an adult. I believe Forrest wants people to return to these ideas and go out in the woods in young adulthood to transform into an adult. IMO

    • hey ,mark,what are you trying to say here,is this ligit,as the underwood typewriter its name is backwards and so are some of its letters,are you saying read the poem backwards,from bottom up.

      • Hi Virginia Diane,

        I am not trying to say anything other than what I saw on the local news, I think it’s legit since it was on the news. I think the website just reversed the photo, maybe the little sock puppets looked better that way? I don’t think there are any clues or hints here, I just posted it because I thought it was interesting that somebody stole the same brand antique typewriter as Forrest has and it was in Santa Fe.

        http://krqe.com/2016/01/31/piece-of-history-swiped-from-santa-fe-shop-owner/

  36. I don’t have the chest. I’m curious and have a question to ask. If you were the one to find the chest, would you let people know or let everyone keep looking for something that isn’t there anymore? I have wondered this often and would like to know what others think. I will go first. I would let people know.

    • I could go either way, I will decide when I see whats in the chest if that where to happen.
      jl

    • I would let people know but would try to keep my identity secret. If I found the chest i’d take pictures of a few items in it, go to the library in a different town, then send the pictures to Dal and/or FF using a different email address.

      • Wha….?? Well, Seeker, if you’re gonna be that way, I’ll tell EVERYBODY…..except you!!! 🙂 🙂

    • alopes,

      Not sure how long you’ve been folowing Dal’s blog, but this has been discussed quite a bit in the past. Also, some information concerning this discussion is that somehow, it has been deduced that Mr. Fenn is keeping an eye on it, whatever that means. But apparentaly, he has stated that he’ll know when someone finds it. Many of us wonder how he’ll know.

      It is my opinion that I would keep it as quiet as possible and then only letting those that needed to know that it was in my possession. The rest of the world would simply know it has been found. At some point in the future, there would be a “coming out” party once all my financial and legal ducks were in a row.

      • Hi, swwot. I’ve been following Dal’s blog for less than a year. I try not to be redundant but there is so much info here that I’m unable to read all of it. I try and chime in once in a while, so I don’t feel like I’m just ‘getting help’ and not offering back. I guess that this post was more curiosity than helpful. My thought behind it was that while the chase is a fun and intriguing adventure to most of us, to some it has become an obsession that is draining their resources ( financially or other), and as much as they are probably a small percent of the searchers I was wondering how many searchers would let others know when it was done. Sorry, long explanation. And as always, IMO

    • IMHO:
      I believe that once the chest is found, Forrest will know it. He knows now that it is still there which tells me, he will know when it is missing.
      Friend

    • I would drive straight to Forrest’s and talk about the special place. I reckon the news would get out after that.

    • I saw this post and for whatever reason I read it as snake garters, I thought “what the heck are snake garters?”. Then I responded to a post and scrolled past this and read it that way again. I gave myself not one but two good laughs. Well, I guess I’m a dunce. And to answer your question, no.

  37. Well after I woke up from passing out….. I would let Forrest know….that way fellow searchers could stop spending money and putting themselves in danger hoping to find the chest. That would be the most courteous thing to do…… Then I would pass out again………lol. 🙂

    • Wait… What?

      Why in the World would, ” fellow searcher… putting themselves in danger hoping to find the chest.” ?

      I ‘think’ I understand what you mean, but that sounds like searching for the chest is a dangerous act to start with. More people have had more accident slipping in bathtubs, then out in the trails.
      And no offense, but if folks take out a second mortgage, or borrow money from grandma because the can’t budget their earnings properly and plan for a search excursion like anything else they should do… well, stupid is as stupid does, and is only their own fault.

      • Oh, I agree that it is not a smart thing to do to put your self in financial stress to search for the treasure, I’m willing to bet that people still do it. I agree with focused that it would be a courteous thing to let everyone know ( just that it’s found, not one’s identity). Forrest has said that it is not in a dangerous place but I don’t think everyone listens. IMO

        • Thank you alopes ….looks like someone understands what I’m saying….the word “meek” in the poem is taken differently by different people…..along with many other words within the poem… I think it would be selfish to not say anything…imo .. Good luck to ya alopes in your chase.

      • But what if they have solved it and then take out the second mortgage to travel there and find nothing? The problem with not letting everyone know is the extreme hatred you will face if anyone ever finds out. (The word extreme is probably an understatement.)

    • How many times does Forrest have to say It’s not in a dangerous place. Its not in a cave ,mine or over the edge of a cliff. I think he said A child could walk right to it … WALK NOT SWIM. Maybe near the edge of water but not in the water IMO. I also think he said your going to be surprised at where it’s at, which to me hint’s that thinking it’s isolated on ridge or peak ten miles into the wilderness is wrong. IMO

      • RattleSnakes are in most all areas of the search. Near knee high rubber boots offer some protection. If you have some old ones or they are to small, you can cut the soles out and wear them over your other shoes.

        Lisa, I’m from Fairhope, email me at my username and yahoo, if you are the one from LA.

  38. So hear us all and listen good. We (the Geezer Team) believe there’s no sense searching for the treasure in Montana or Wyoming because Forrest Fenn has told us such. He inadvertenly, we think, gave out a clue when he said “If I was standing where the treasure chest is … smells of pine needles, or piñon nuts, …” . The clue is smells of piñon nuts, which, in fact, do not grow in Montana or Wyoming! We think it was a goof because he then said “… there’s one thing I told you I wish I had not.” Later, in an interview he says he erred in mentioning piñon nuts, that he really meant pine needles. But, substituting pine needles for piñon nuts we have “smells of pine needles, or pine needles, …” which is a highly unlikely statement, we think. Thus, it is our opinion that the treasure is hidden in New Mexico or Colorado where piñon nuts do grow!

    Dennis Bockhaut, Geezer Team Member

    • I read the article regarding pine nuts and bears in Yellowstone. It made no mention of pinon pine species in that area. The growth habitat of these species are almost exclusively limited to CO and NM because of the search, although UT and NV boast populations. There is a very small location that they grow in southern WY. Based on growing zones and climate, I find it unlikely you will ever see a pinon pine grow NATURALLY in the northern regions of WY.

      There are eight species of true pinyon:
      Pinus cembroides – Mexican pinyon
      Pinus orizabensis – Orizaba pinyon
      Pinus johannis – Johann’s pinyon (includes P. discolor – Border pinyon)
      Pinus culminicola – Potosi pinyon
      Pinus remota – Texas pinyon or papershell pinyon
      Pinus edulis – Two-needle piñon or Colorado pinyon (when grown in Colorado)
      Pinus monophylla – Single-leaf pinyon
      Pinus quadrifolia – Parry pinyon (includes P. juarezensis).
      Pinus rzedowskii – Rzedowski’s pine
      Pinus pinceana – Weeping pinyon
      Pinus maximartinezii – Big-cone pinyon
      Pinus nelsonii – Nelson’s pinyon

  39. I am not sure but I think once I read something about ”down” as being ”north” in certain old usage or cultures.Can anybody confirm to me? Sorry if there was a discussion about it before but I couldn’t pin down any reference.thanks

    TT

    • Forrest used down to describe north in TTOTC chapter titled Surviving Myself when he wrote… “Sometimes, when it wasn’t cold, I’d get even with my father for switching me by jumping out of the window by my bed and walking down to the cemetery, which was just a block north of our house.”

      • Hello Ramona. In this case, Mr. Fenn’s “down” is north. Could it just be that “down” would mean in “a” direction. What if the cemetery was east of his home and he used the word “down”? I would love to hear your thoughts, please.

        • Yes I agree, down can be any direction. In my family we always say things like I have go down to the bank or down to the store etc. which could be in any direction. In my research I also found that down could simply mean toward. But I think the important thing is that if we can find where FF himself uses words in a certain way than that is beneficial in solving the poem.

          • I agree. Once we find the correct canyon, we’ll need to enter it. The stances before home of Brown will direct us to which one. This is an opinion, offered as a thought. 🙂

  40. Down = North? Have not heard of such. Down = SOUTH yes, because on a map North is UP and Down in south according to the declination diagram or key. IMO

    • Hello JD. Here’s a couple examples for you:

      “I had to go down to the school to pick up my kids.” The school is actually north from my home. If I may also make suggestions for “down,” it could mean in any direction. For example: “I need to go down to the gas station and fill up the vehicle.” In this case, my down is “west”. I would love to hear everyone’s thoughts to this.

      • When I was a kid 50 + years ago and lived in Texas down just meant we were going somewhere and did not relate to any specific direction.
        jl

          • Okay, now I’m pulling strings for fun.

            TTOTC, “Buffalo Cowboys”, page 65.

            “Cody”=bison=buffalo.

            I’ve always called the animals buffalo, but I’ve been corrected by others that they’re bison. Look at any video and hear what the park rangers in Yellowstone call them. Any connections?

            Ahhh, the Thrill of the Chase!

      • @pdenver, my current thinking of “canyon down” seems to draw to the lower canyon in Yellowstone, too far to walk being 7 mile trail. Nearby mountain base is known for grizzly dens.

        Anyone know what location the pic of Skippy and a rock is? I’d be curious about it. I was wondering about the glacier boulder near the 7 Mile trailhead as warm waters dropping a huge rock in the middle of wherever.

    • You’re correct… when you used “down” in that context.

      In the case [ To Ramona’s post ] of down as a term usage it can mean many things depending on the context of the conversation.

      ~I walked down the canyon side, heading north with the flow of the waters… ~ In this case down means lower level, and as a direction ‘down’ means north.

    • Etymology of the word “north” from Wikipedia

      The word north is related to the Old High German nord, both descending from the Proto-Indo-European unit ner-, meaning “down” (or “under”). a natural primitive description of its concept is “to the left of the rising sun”

      • Strange many people say “up north”. One of the first modern map makers lived in south Africa. He placed the South Pole at the top of the map. Many people think “How stupid!”

    • heres another form of the word down as a meaning. Have any one ever heard of a person say while there in a car or truck say im going to get down? Meaning to most im going to get out of the car or truck. I have alot of relative that live in texas that say that alot and i thing its unusual to hear them to say that for get out of something. Thats just a thought for the mind when it comes to the meaning of down.

  41. All,

    I believe that if you have the correct WWWH then take it in the canyon down will be self evident. The clues are contiguous as f has said. Down is irrelevant until you have the correct starting point.

    Seannm

    • I agree Seannm.
      But if we totally dismiss down as irrelevant, is it only used to rhyme with Brown?

      A lot of searcher work on the premise ” hear me all and listen good ” as a hint/clue that the poem needs to be read differently then most see it. one example that other have made was to combined sounding of words [ i don’t care for this, but I don’t know how to solve the poem either ]

      So an example for down could be; sounding like ” And taking the canyon down. With the IT meaning the waters.

      This poetry after-all, that we are attempting to interpret. While at the same time deciphering what is a clue, and what the clues means and / or how it works.

      You just might be correct though. At this point, I personally can’t dismiss a single word. I just think there is more than a “single step” involved in understanding the poem.

      • Seeker,

        Well as neither of us apparently have the chest in their possession, then neither of us are wrong. I tend to believe that we as a community over complicate the poem and its meaning and ff anticipated this “imagination is more important that knowledge”. I am also a firm believer in what Marvin told Forrest “the better part of knowledge is knowing what is not worthy of knowing” or something to that effect. So l try and keep it simple and look for those subtle hints in what ff says and writes. I have my solution and it fits very well within the poem, it not over complicated nor is it simplistic but it is contiguous. Is my solution correct don’t know yet but I am confident that it is and i can see why some have come within 200ft.

        Seannm

        • I agree Seannm,

          I just always look at any possible option. I will disagree on one part. I think the poem is very complicated. But like you said… we tend to over complicate it by bringing in Codes, and bible verses etc. that we’ve been told to eliminate. At the same time I think we over simplify our thoughts do to the comment ” straightforwards” there is a fine line between the two and that is where my attempts lay. The complication of the poem imo is not so much the clues as it is the poem itself. But that is my perspective, and more than likely wrong… well maybe.

          • Seeker, if you don’t mind me poking in here.
            You said (and I respect your thoughts)
            I think the poem is very complicated.

            I would like to know why you think this way except for the fact that no one has found it yet?

            (36:13) OK, do we look at the poem more of a physical location or metaphysical location? F “What’s metaphysical mean? When I wrote that poem I wasn’t playing any games, It’s straight forward.”
            I think one of the opposite defs for straight forward is not complicated.
            F said he felt like an architect writing it.
            I was an architect for a few years & to me it was not very complicated at all. It was allot about imagination & keeping the clients wishes in mind.
            The thing I didn’t like about being an architect was the fact when general contractors would change my design of a structure because they thought it wasn’t feasible or code didn’t allow it.

            So what makes you think it’s so complicated?

          • Jake.

            While the poem appears to be directions. I think there was intent to have it appear that way. Not to be deceitful, but clever.
            And IMO a job well done… Most if not all see the poem only telling of clues as directions. Yet I think we forget it is poetry, and needs to be read as such.

            Fenn said… It’s not who you are, its who they think you are.

            I see the poem in the same manor. It’s not what you see, its how he wants you to see it.

            Unless it’s your desire to keep it simple.

            Straightforward for me… Is when all is said and done… The answers will be straight forwards. Getting there within the poem is very difficult / complicated.

            I’ll add fenn gave us examples of what… ” over ” complicated means.

          • Seeker, Thank you for your answer. You would make a great politician.

            I have another Q that I have asked before & the answers are far & few between.

            Why is it that people, searchers have only figured the first COUPLE of clues?
            Even the LGFI could get no closer than said.
            With the 65,000-100,000 searchers, no one has figured out the 3rd clue in 5.5 years?

            How could that be?

            Keep in mind there has been allot of emails sent his way & many posts as well from various websites which if your posting, you are telling everyone that reads it where you are going and/or where you have been.

            This tells me this is the BIG FAT ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM that most stray away from.

            What is it about the 3rd clue that cannot be figured? Some have gone by it obviously from his statements. But nobody knows WHAT it is according to F.

            BIG RED FLAG GOES UP HERE.

            Please, anyone give your POV to this problem.

          • Since the second day I started reading the poem, I made it a rule that whatever the first conceptualization my brain created of the poems’ lines, not to go with that thought. And whatever groups of other people thought could be the meaning of the various lines, to not accept that either. Following your gut instinct is a sure-fire way to screw yourself up; everything in this poem has to be ready and thought about, and eventually someone might think the right things that will get them there.

          • Hello Seeker. Would you be so kind to supply the examples Mr. Fenn had given to describe the meaning(s) for “over complicated,” please. It seems I have missed them. Thank you.

          • Pdenver,
            go to ~most important info.
            ~located My recaps of f’s statements.

            Keep in mind the ‘complexity’ has been used as ‘complicated’ in meaning… this has been a bad habit of posting when one has commented on the same quote over and over again over the years… I myself is guilty of that [obviously] . There are other quotes about the complication / complexity as well… but that is the “list” of examples fenn refer to.

            Another example you may see that we [ posters ] get slightly twisted on is… there are many wwwh in the RM’s and ” most ” are north of SF comment. The actual wording was ” nearly all ” But you’re right in asking… each searcher needs to keep their own track record for correct wording on quotes and don’t always rely on… Loco to save the day. I think there’s a rule about that somewhere.

            But in my defense, I get going on my explanations, I miss – word a few comments… My bad… the defense rest.

          • Jake,

            MY answers are easy…
            1. reading the poem wrong.
            2. wrong guessing on the first clue.

            Yep.. just my opinion.

          • OK, the elephant is eating it all up & needs time to digest the info. But the elephant is still hungry for a more complex answer, like the poem.

          • Jake, u said:
            “What is it about the 3rd clue that cannot be figured?” I read this as why is the 3rd clue not being interpreted properly?
            1.) Lack of imagination
            2.) Ignoring the poem
            3.) disclaimer: your 3rd clue may not be the same as mine. IMO
            jl

          • JL, I am not talking about any searches figuring out the 3rd clue.
            I am talking about Forrest commenting on the 3rd clue & someone figuring it out.
            Get to know my elephant named Brown.

          • Does everyone know what the first 2 clues are,or just the people mr.forrest talked about.i know where warm waters halt.is probably number1.but haven’t figured it out yet.so hard.he did a very good job on this poem

          • VDA,
            How many clues has someone cracked? F “I know they’ve cracked the first 2, and went right past the treasure chest. Several people have done that.”

            Several, not all.

            You have to settle on whatever you think is the first clue at some time based on the poem, the books & statements. Your not alone, nobody has figured it out yet as far as I know.

          • Jake,
            Are you talking about the comment from f that 3 maybe 4 clues may have been discovered but he’s not certain? And then heard no more about it since. Hang with me I’m trying to follow along.
            jl

          • JL,
            The comment F made about being unsure of the 3rd & 4th clues is part of it.
            It seems that after all the BOTG & computer searchers that have posted or emailed there solves to F, he is only certain about them figuring the 1st & second clue. I am not sure how many hundreds or thousands of solves have been posted in the 5.5 years but I would think that one of the searchers would have gotten it right.

          • Jake,

            Find my post fundamental guidelines feb. 9 @ 12:17 to loco. that will explain my method / thought on the poem… keep an open mind if you read it a directions you’ll not understand where i’m going with it.

          • @Jake and big Brown, okay, the 3rd clue, seems to me, is a boots-on-the-ground clue.
            Let’s say you have the first two clues. Start off right and head into a canyon down, following a trail. You may think about the 3rd clue as a HOB, or a creek, or whatever, but as you walk down this trail you come to a gate, locked with ‘no trespassing’ signs on it. Now, you’d still follow the trail, maybe unaware it’s what f meant by “no place for the meek”, the 3rd clue. Then you walk up onto the blaze, clue 4. Take a pic of the blaze, send to f, saying, ‘hey, it’s the blaze”. Knowing your starting position and direction, he might think you know the gate is the 3rd clue, or might not. His view, you may have solved the 3rd clue, may not, don’t know. May have solved the 4th clue, may have just snapped a lucky picture. Without an explanation, he just wouldn’t know.
            The line that gives you the 3rd clue may be the line that gives you the key also.(read from right to left, what are the first 3 letters? same in line 18) Some may be focused on the key but have no idea about the 3rd clue, because they haven’t been out there to see it, the gate.
            The girl in India can see the first two clues but not the third. 🙂 IMO.

          • Jake,

            Please forgive me, but from context I cannot for the life of me figure out what “POV” stands for. Please explain – I’m pretty sure it doesn’t stand for “people on Venus.”

          • Jake,
            Yes you would think so, but maybe not only F knows. F is like the CIA he only leaks out what information he deems necessary. He has slowed down on releasing any new clues, IMO that tells me at least one is getting close. Releasing anymore would be unfair to the one or ones who are close and have come so far. It also tells him there is enough info already out. All IMO
            jl

          • That makes sense JL,
            Why give out more hints or clues when he knows some are getting close.
            I think we pretty much have all we need to find it.
            Watching the clock isn’t going to bring spring any quicker, darn!

    • Take it in the Canyon down is; “in the Canyon.” Canyon’s usually relate to elevations. So down would be “IN” the Canyon. Now where is the Canyon located; that’s the issue – is down; west, north, south, or east. Of course down is a lower elevation, but what direction.

    • It also really narrows down the search in that sate if there is only a handful of trees from which to smell the scent from, eh?

  42. In the “Cheat Sheet” link at the top of this page we see the following:

    ♦ “Some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close”.
    ♦ People have been within 500’ of the treasure
    ♦ “Some of the searchers have been within 500 feet I know”.
    ♦ “Searchers have been within 200 feet”. Huffpost interview 02/04/15

    Not knowing the sources as well as many of you do, and to avoid a long search by me, do any of you recall exactly when Forrest stated the first three comments above? I was wondering what the earliest date was that he revealed someone had come very close to the chest.

    • LOCO ~ your up!… LOL.. i kill me. See what happens when ya tell what you have hidden behind closed doors.

      I don’t care what anyone says about ya… I just correct them… lol

    • TxTH – Here is the link to what I believe is his first reference to someone getting close:

      http://dalneitzel.com/2012/04/05/stephan-returns-to-the-blaze/#comment-636

      “Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close.”

      f made this statement in Sept 2012. Given f has been very clear on the definition of several (more than 2, but not many more…) I would say that the first people to get close were in May or June 2012, about 20 months into this adventure.

      In another comment:

      http://dalneitzel.com/2013/04/04/the-nine-clues-part-twentythree/#comment-21626

      which references an email about 10 days after the statement above, f dropped this statement:

      “Some few have stopped within several hundred feet of the correct location, and then passed it by.”

      While there is no indication that the two statements are the same group of people, I give it high probability that they are the same. Statement 1: first two clues correct, went past the other 7 clues; Statement 2: stopped with several hundred feet of correct location, then passed it by. Common sense says they are the same group.

      For whatever reasons (probably ego and the need to be important), many people on the blogs will not accept or even allow a possibility of things like this to be connected due to lack of hard, fast facts; but the way I see it, whoever finds the prize won’t accomplish it by acting like a prosecuting attorney attempting to prove, without any doubt, what the poem actually means and throwing out anything that has not been factual cooraborated to go together by the words of f. Imagination is going to play a critical part.

      Good luck in your search!

      • JCM – Thanks for the information. I kind of figured these references were early in the search but I wasn’t sure how long into it they were. From Dal’s comments earlier in this tread about the limited amount of information people had to go on in those early months, compared to what we have now, just how broad was the actual search? (BOTG searches) How many people actually went out and searched during those early months? You would think that if that number was small (one or two thousand?), those people would have an advantage knowing that one of their number had been within a few hundred feet of the chest and needed to go back. “Those people” would be defined with two criteria: 1) anyone that searched before these statements were made and 2) they had emailed Forrest about their search. Obviously there must not have been an advantage since here it is approximately three years later and Forrest has told us he knows the chest is still out there.

        So, if all of “those people” will please post here where you searched, I will go double check your location for you. 🙂

        • I have attempted to get a picture of how many people may have been out searching that second summer by emailing Dorothy (I think that is her name) at Collected Works Bookstore and getting the number of copies they had sold of TTOTC. I didn’t get an answer though, to my disappointment.

          Of interest though, from additional statements from f, someone else (a third person/party) also figured out the first two clues in May/June of 2013 making a total of at least three who had figured out the first two clues.

          f stopped talking in terms of how many people had identified the first two clues in Nov 2013, but did indicate at one point that more than a few searchers had correctly identified the first clue but not the second clue.

          Of note also, f has always talked in terms of the correct amount of clues solved based upon going in order of the clues in the poem. Knowing that people have passed and gone by the other 7 clues, I am convinced that later clues may have been solved but that the person or persons may have considered some parts of the poem to be clues that weren’t clues, and thus f didn’t reveal the total amount of all the 9 clues someone had correctly identified.

          I think someone is close and they have a good amount of confidence in the area they are searching. I think it is only a matter of time until they put all the pieces together and close out the search, if they can endure the process of solving each clue, especially that last 200 feet and that final clue.

          • Hi JCM…I’m still one to believe that WWWH is “the edge of civilization”….the first clue,…which unfortunatelyunffortunately, could be just about anywhere…but as you move through the poem….the clues should lead you some where. If not..,then start anew in a new location. My WWWH is West Yellowstone,b evause of the childhood connection, but if you think “wisely”….the “edge” could be an exact location like a campsite, motel, hotel, etc.

            I also think of one can identify the clues….out of order, that will help the seeker go in a certain direction.

            One has to try and think like Fenn….that is how the solve will be completed.

            Good luck.

      • @JCM, I just got here.

        I agreewith your assessment and conclusion about the content of those statements…..I like you!!! 🙂

        Thanks for providing those links, that’s why I passed the mantle to you last year, I know how good you are!!! 🙂 🙂

        Besides, it’s getting to be a full time job just figgering out where Seeker is and trying to keep up with him!!! 🙂

        Good Luck to Ya, JCM.

        • Loco – I have a list of many quotes that I have collected, and I have the majority of the ones people ask about – and many, many more that people don’t ask about (though I am not so interested in collecting the ones like what North means and the other not necessarily useful clues f has given out). I feel what I have collected are very important and extremely useful in finding the chest.

          I am giving serious consideration to selling my collection online, but the price I am considering would probably be of great offense to many. I look at it this way, how much is hundreds of hours worth of looking articles up, reading and picking out the choice nuggets, listening and transcribing video and audio recordings, and then compiling all this information together worth?

          When read and understood in the manner I have compiled all this information, it takes a person to a whole new level in what they are doing and looking for.

          Thanks for your kind words!!!

          • @JCM,

            “When read and understood in the manner I have compiled all this information, it takes a person to a whole new level in what they are doing and looking for.”….again, we are in total agreement!

            I completely understand the time and effort that is involved in order to compile an extensive collection. If you are going to sell it, you definitely deserve to rewarded handsomely for it. And, the price should be such that it discourages purchasers from just sharing it with any and evertbody!!

            Your Welcome. But, no thanks are necessary. As I said, I’ve been following you since you helped Liv out last year. I was pretty certain you had put in a lot of work!!!….credit given where credit due

            Good Luck to You, JCM

  43. Jake – responding to your question here:

    http://dalneitzel.com/2016/01/11/odds-n-ends-about-fenns-treasure-hunt-4/#comment-122508

    What is stopping people from getting the 3rd clue? Even when they have went past it and the other remaining 6 clues also? That is seven places/things/whatever-the-clues-are that people could not get processed in their heads because they were not thinking the right things that would allow them to figure it out.

    Going back to TGFI dilemma; the constraints of the question Jenny asked did not include the girl having TTOTC. Maybe someone has brought it up already (I haven’t seen it), but if TGFI can only get the first two clues, and a number of others have also only gotten the first two clues – but not any more, is it even remotely possible that those subtle clues may come into play in understanding the 3rd clue and on through to the 9th clue? f seems pretty adamant that the poem and a map of the Rockies will only get you the first two clues, so I have to accept the possibility that the subtle hints in the book may just play into figuring out the meaning of the remaining clues – thinking the right way to understand them.

    People will now get fired up, with their panties all twisted, spouting off “all you need is the poem” comment from f; I too can take a single statement from someone and wrest it to something it was not intended to mean. I am happy for people to accept that premise and won’t argue a second with them about it; I will just read the statement in the context it was given and also give thoughtful consideration to everything else f has said about the topic.

    Another issue that must be considered is “a word that is key”. f seems to indicate that being “in tight focus” with this “word” might somehow cause the chest to be found sooner than he thought it would. With no “word that is key” – all you have is a bunch of people giving serious thought to the poem, NOT getting anywhere and NOT finding the chest.

    That is my POV, and probably worthless at that. 🙂

    Then there is that possibility, which f isn’t sure about, where the 3rd and 4th clue may have been correctly identified… any bets it would be by the “few” who are in tight focus with a word that is key?

    • 🙂 JCM, I seem to be fixated on you tonight!

      I think your POV is spot on……so cares if anybody else agress?? 🙂

      ” I will just read the statement in the context it was given and also give thoughtful consideration to everything else f has said about the topic.” – – – if you weren’t already on my “read” list, that would put you there!!!

      As you are already on it, that just moved you to the top!! Keep posting your insight, you may be the one who cracks this thing open…..Seeker, you better keep an eye on this guy/gal!!!! 🙂

      • Oh great Loco, now you are going to have everyone following what I say and now I feel pressure. Ironically, most of what I post usually has some combination of various quotes from f.

        There was this guy, Craig, who had several questions that showed up on Jenny’s site that f answered; I really liked his questions… oh wait… 😉

        Good luck keeping up with Seeker, he adds a great depth to the thinking and consideration that goes on around here.

      • Loco – I will also add that when I do pop in to see what is happening (every two or three days) I always look for you and Seeker. It is like looking for the crows and ravens all flying and circling around something: there has got to be something entertaining going on. Dal, Goofy, and a few others are also good to keep track of. It would be an interesting discussion if we all sat down together and had a chat, of course we would probably end up in a brawl because we would end up disagreeing on so many things. 🙂

        Now back to all my other irons in the fire.

        • WHaaaT… I totally disagree…

          There’ll be no brawling, unless you try to take my slice of pizza while I’m getting the next pitcher of beer… then we’ll have a problem. Maybe someone could rent a place where we all could go, enjoy open conversations, make a weekend out of it. Out in Mother Nature’s surrounding arms… We can call it Fenn- something.

    • Maybe some have got the 3rd+ clues processed but have not posted online or email where F cannot read it is also a possibility.
      Yes, I think the context can tell allot about the answer to the problem. If you get the context wrong, your screwed from the beginning.

      Th LGFI did not have TTOTC therefore did not have any hints to help with the clues in the poem, but I would think some of those other searchers that went by the other clues did have his book?

      My last couple of solves & had used what I thought were hints in the books & emails, & interviews & feel as though got me closer to the chest.
      I think the word that is key could have something to do with solving other clue(s) & is a clue in it’s self.

  44. “Then there is that possibility, which f isn’t sure about, where the 3rd and 4th clue may have been correctly identified” Did FF answer that someone has the 3rd or 4th clue?

  45. Seeker,

    I’m moving my reply to your question (Fundamental Guidelines) over here…..and, you probably not gonna like

    ………………………………………………………………………

    Seeker,

    In response to your about HOB = clue #1

    I had that as a possible on my list for a while. Kept it in mind while searching for a viable WWWH. If I determined a possible WWWH and could identify a possible HOB, I tried it the way you mention, also…… I discounted it and removed when Fenn came out with this:

    7/2/2014:
    Do you think that someone who is sure about the location of the home of Brown could reverse-engineer where warm waters halt? ~Ben Raylor
    Thanks for the question Ben.

    If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt? But to answer your question, sure you could and a few searchers might throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take. Good luck.f
    …………………………………………

    I don’t believe he says anything to deliberately mislead. So, as I couldn’t figure out how he could make that statement if HOB = clue 1, I discounted that theory and removed from list…… You can’t “reverse-engineer”(r-e) to something that comes afterward…..that’s where WWWH,if still counted as a clue, would be if HOB = clue 1.

    Since he has said that you must have clue 1 nailed down first, how did you derive HOB?

    If you are saying that everything before is just needed to understand what HOB is, then those lines are just hints, not clues. In that case, the remaining 8 clues would come “after” HOB in the Poem…… If you are still counting the lines prior to HOB as clues, then yes, you are guilty of taking clues out of sequential order.

    🙂 I know you Seeker!! I’m absolutely positive you have some convoluted rationale that, in your view, makes it a viable theory. If you’re that convinced of it, then keep pursuing it to the end. I’m not gonna argue. My opinion….HOB is not clue #1.

    There is a huge difference in trying to justify “making” the Poem read how you “want” it to read, as opposed to reading the Poem in a manner it “directs” you to!!!…..just sayin’

    • Thanks for the time and reply.
      First; The hoB as the first clue is just a thought and like you, I kinda agree that if it’s possible to reverse engineer then hoB may not be the first clue… The “Kinda agree” also means that neither WWWH or HoB are the first clue[s]. We still seem to be working on the premise that those must be the beginning of the clues.
      As well as what you implied, maybe one of them could be a hint…

      Please I beg you not to go there… hint vs. clues. I have too much fun in this challenge, but the … there are clues everywhere notion will put me in my grave… and I’ll reply to JCM ‘s comment about subtle hints and a clue. If the book has hints that are needed to solve any part of the poem, then the book itself is needed. However the broadcast in the media section, from OH, fenn stated very clearly to a direct question … is the book[s] needed, reply; you don’t need to read his book… and add the book can help. Fenn already stated the book can be a reference, and subtle hints. however this Q&A was direct with the question and the answer. and we all have read the other quotes about the need of the poem vs. the book.

      Ok i’m back. As much as I agree with your assessment about hoB not being the first clue. You skipped over my brilliant, one of a kind, poetic reading into WWWH, and how too far to walk works, even if hoB is a clue afterwards. I know most look at the poem as direction… I’m just saying, we may not be looking at the reason for a poem? This avenue gave him everything he needed to present the wording he desired in a poetic term. I don’t see how this can be read simply as a set of direction only.

      • Seeker,

        “The “Kinda agree” also means that neither WWWH or HoB are the first clue[s].” – – – Oh, but we do agree…..I never said anywhere that I thought WWWH was the first clue!!!


        LOL!! Just checking to see if you were paying attention to what you were writing! When you get on a roll, I wonder sometimes. 🙂 🙂
        ………………………………………………………………….


        “So the poetic version [ interpretation ] of these lines may say… “Begin where waters are… changing “And” taking… the canyon down.”

        **Nope. I think you reaching too far there. I see nothing to indicate that waters could be “changing” or “taking” the canyon, within the context you seem to be using them.

        **On the surface, NFBTFTW would seem to indicate distance. Maybe timewise. I just think that either would be too obvious….. I’m leaning toward it is possibly giving us the name or a description of the canyon, in a poetic sense (to use your term).

        Aaannndd, we are total agreement, also, on the hints versus clues!! Although I own the book and it was a fun read, I really don’t think it is useful……dang, dal gonna throw me in chains again!!! 🙂

        Later…………….

      • Seeker – I have listened to the question in the OH interview and I still stand by my comment. It is all about the “full” context of the question.

        Q. Does somebody need to read your books to find the treasure or do all the clues exist within the poem?

        A. “They don’t need to read my book, but they need to read the poem. The book will help them, but they can find the treasure if they can decipher the clues that are in the poem.

        There are clues in the poem that will lead you to the treasure.”

        The context here is: do you NEED to read the books to find the treasure (to find clues and information to get you to the chest) OR do ALL the clues exist within the poem; this is a similar question that was asked by the bridge club.

        f’s response remains consistent – the poem contains the clues for finding the chest (not the book), the book WILL help them, but the treasure will be found by reading and deciphering the clues in the poem.

        It is the same thing f has said repeatedly: clues/info for finding the treasure are in the poem, hints and help for figuring out what the clues in the poem mean is the purpose of the book.

        I don’t claim that I have it all figured out or even that I am remotely close to being correct with anything in my solution, but I will say if I shared with you what I have found in the book, as related to subtle hints that help you understand what the clues mean, along with how the book helps one to understand what a word that is key is, your perspective on this whole thing would forever be changed and the questions you ask, well, you would be pulling out a specific map and only asking questions about what the next clue is as you followed it all step by step, with so much confidence (not certainty), that you would be hard pressed to believe it could be located anywhere else.

        We all argue and debate from the perspectives we have based upon the understanding derived from the information we possess. I will sum up how I feel about my info by saying that when comparing what I have discovered to what other people have revealed in their solves and the ideas of how they approach this search, it would be like comparing the technology Mr Colt used to create his first model to the current technology of HS Produkt. It is the simple principle of you don’t know that you don’t know, but once that first don’t know becomes known, the second don’t know becomes obtainable.

        I can’t and won’t say that I am right, but I continue to put my feet on the ground with confidence to prove and disprove each clue that I have determined in the poem. I can fully relate to f’s statement of threading a tract through the wiles of nature and circumstance; I fully appreciate what that has come to mean to me and the challenge of finding his treasure. It is tough. It is difficult. Each clue requires a lot of thought and consideration. You will have to earn it.

        Unless someone else finds the chest and tells us how the poem is to be solved, I will continue to follow the path that I am currently on. If the chest is ultimately not there and remains unfound, then I will be very hard pressed to come up with something better than what I currently have.

        And for purposes of disclosure, this is all IMO. 🙂

  46. From ’17 Dollars a Square Inch’ in Forrests Blog
    “you’d have thought I’d stolen the burnt umber right out of his paint box”

    Umber is mentioned by Forrest a couple of times. It’s brown or reddish.
    (brain storming…)
    The Picuris tribe was called that by the Spanish because of their paint. I can’t find any reference to which color was being used. But in the solve made by Sancho, they refer to their governor as ‘Brown’. That may make either the Picuris Pueblo or Picuris Peak as the HOB.
    Then Aqua Caliente Spring and creek as WWWH at the Rio Grande as Canyon Down. But I am stuck because it is out of sequence. IMO

  47. Can anyone help me or recommend a good map program?

    I have heard some people talk about things from filtering out all the altitudes below 500 and above 11,200 or only looking at rivers or even being able to drop a pin and get the exact Lat/long and reverse enter an exact lay and long and get that exact spot. I have google earth and maps but notice it usually gives the lat/long of the nearest address and doesn’t have filters I can see to do things like use filters on elevations etc. Id like to
    Purchase a decent comprehensive program yet have no clue what does what or where to even shop? Does anyone use anything besides Google they could recommend that’s more fun? Thanks!

  48. Jamie Jones, posted a comment on 9 clue thread, that has e thinking of a different reading of the poem… Seeing it as noting to do with what clue are I’m post a thought here, for those who what to chat over the possibilities.

    Lets take stanza 6 and read t as such;
    “So hear me all and listen good”… referring to ‘The book’ and how ‘the poem’ is telling you to how read the book~ again.
    Think of the poem not holding the answers to where the chest lays in wait, but the Key/legend to how to read the book itself, to find the path to the location.
    A translation of this stanza may read as; Your efforts will be worthy of the prize. If you take on the difficult challenge and understand the book [ as above ].

    Now lets take stanza 5 and read it as such;
    The question is answering two things here, what he has accomplished in life/ memories he tells… and the writing of the poem and book to explain how/where he hid his trove, The treasures he holds in his memoirs.

    Now stanza one; Fenn has gone alone in there [ book ] and with his possessions/memoirs, He can keep his secrets in the book, and hint of his “riches” knowledge New and Old.

    The next three stanzas May now be the Key to unlock the reading of the book, the way it was intended to be read to find the chest tat lays in wait.

    Instead of attempting to interpret the poem as directions or descriptions that will lead us to the chest… is it possible the poem is the key to reading the book? Thinking more along the line as; poem is the legend on map, and the book is the map.

    Fenn has stated many times in many ways, You don’t need to read his book.. you need to decipher the clues in the poem.
    Also has stated, read the poem over and over and read the book “again”

    I have read many post over the years, many solutions / interpretations. All to how the poem is deciphered to find the chest. At the same time folks hunting down possible clues in the book to match that way of thinking to the poem.

    What IF… it’s just the opposite… We buy the book, that holds the poem, Told the the poem contains 9 clues, Now~ read the poem as it only tells us, how to read the book to find the chest. Clues in the poem are just that alone, clues hinting to answers of “How to read the book again” to find the answers.
    NOT just rambling through the book ‘looking’ for answers to clues in the poem. The Key is in a word, “Title” to the gold… The “Title” The Thrill of the Chase.

    Aberrations… “Something different” by fenn’s definition of the word. or a twist… the poem is key [ the key ] to unlocking the book.

    This does not change the fact of “all the information need to find the chest” is in the poem… without the poem, you can not read the book properly. This does not change, you don’t need to read the book, you need to decipher the clues in the poem… again the poem is needed for the book and not the other way around.

    Still leaving the poem straightforwards. How it explains all the above.

    So back to the old question I have asked before, Are we reading the poem wrong?
    And, could this be the important possibility, fenn talks about.

    Yep ~ More Rambling and Rumblings from your friendly neighborhood Seeker.

    • Seeker,
      Just buy tha darn book, maybe it will cut your ramblings in half.
      OK, give me your address, I will buy one for you, maybe even both.
      My brain is bleeding.

      • Jake,

        🙂 Now you know why I had to change my screen name to “loco”, two and a half years ago!!! LOL!!

        • Well Loco, I have to give Seeker some credit, coming this far while going by memory from a borrowing of the book. I think I will change my screen name to “Bleeding Brain”.
          He still hasn’t given me an address to ship the books to. I will have to ask Goofy for the IP address & see if I can hack into the Internet Service Provider to get the final details on the whereabouts.
          So Seaker, where do you go & sit down & enjoy a good slice of pizza?

      • Jake,
        Ownership of the book has nothing to do with a thought of the intent or purpose of the poem.

        Although it would or could explain why Little indy could not get passed the first two clues… I the poem is used as a guide [ for lack of a better term ] to read the book correctly, the poem is not what is needed to be solve… it’s the key/legend to how and read the poem. In theory, a different way of looking at the challenge.

        Now if folks are suck on a one ways street…fixated in a single idea and procedure, then this discussion is not for them.

        • Seeker:
          “Jake,
          Ownership of the book has nothing to do with a thought of the intent or purpose of the poem.”

          This is true Seeker, the books were not written in a way to aid the seeker with the hints. There are hints in the book(s) to help in solving the clues in the poem I think. Forrest wrote the books in normal manor from what I can see & read.

          The book(s) will help with the clues & you need that help, because you cannot rely on memory alone, most of us can’t. That’s why when we have a question pop up in our mind that needs an answer, we go to the book(s) & or the interviews or statements, sometimes it’s just a waste of time but other times it can point us in the right direction, so we think.

          The book(s) are just another tool in the box that may help us get closer to solving the clues in the poem IMO.

          • You’re more than likely to be correct in your assumptions… everyone seems to be looking at it just that way… myself included.

            However, Fenn never stated the book was obsolete. What has been said the “you don’t need to read my book, you need to decipher the poem”
            “All the information to find the treasure.. poem”
            “Need to decipher the clues in the poem”

            All seemingly easy to grasp. The poem will lead you to the chest, Right?

            Now the what IF factor…
            “are there clues in the book? yes, the poem is in the book”

            Is this say only the poem will get you there. OR could it be the poem is the key to understanding the book… and not just guessing hints/clues from the book. a specific way of reading the book to locate “answers”. not clues.

            ““There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.””
            What is fenn talking about here? the poem is in the book, so is that [the poem]… the clues and hints? and clues will lead you closer to the chest… but where are the answers? are we to simple guess or understand what the poem says?

            ‘The poem “contains” nine clues that if followed… will lead to his rainbow and the treasure.” Can the poem just simply “contain the key understandings to how to understand the reading of the book “again”
            What is a rainbow… in context to what we are looking for?… a 42 degree angle? a scratching in a rock? an arch of a fly-pole? or is it his memoirs? < his dreams and fantasies alike. The book.

            Again this will not be everyone's cup of tea. and may not amount to anything at all. But neither has this dart throwing contest everyone is doing.

          • hey Jake hunch here..
            you wrote that Forrest wrote his books in normal manor. Is that what he calls his spread in Santa Fe? Normal Manor?
            haw haw haw! hee heeee wowee thats a good one! Normal Manor. like batmans house was Wayne Manor.
            hold on Jake im choked up and cant see.

            ok
            still laughing….ol man Fenn’s house is far from normal ol buddy.
            he’s a wild one.

            Normal Manor…sheeeesh.

          • Well hunch, I am glad you got a good laugh of what I said.
            It was not my intention to do so but there is always fallout no matter what anybody says because we are all different.

            Normal is predicated on your POV.
            Your normal is not my normal & that goes for everyone.
            You might think it’s normal to have a cup of coffee in the morning. But it’s not normal for others.
            It’s normal to get a normal response such as yours. I see you as normal, which could mean average as well.

            Forrest’s books appear to be written normally. I did not find any hidden codes or deciphers in the context of the text between the bindings. They are memoirs describing the details of his life.

            So where was it that I had said that his home was normal?
            hunch says:
            “ok still laughing….ol man Fenn’s house is far from normal ol buddy.
            he’s a wild one.”

            I was obviously talking about his books. I guess you don’t have a hunch what I said.

          • Hunch, be nice now! Jake, I think he was laughing at the word manor when you clearly meant manner – although Forrest’s home/estate certainly is his “manor”. 🙂

            Aside from that, I think Forrest included hints in the TTOTC on purpose, not accidently. I believe he chose specific stories and words to use in his book that he knew would be hints to help with the clues in the poem. Why write the book, especially if he was always planning on giving the books to Collected Works Book Store so he would not be accused of writing the book for profit? He could have just released the poem to the world and advertised it in treasure hunting magazines etc, so no one would have to spend any money on a book, but perhaps he thought that without some hints in a book, people wouldn’t ever be able to figure out his cryptic poem. Unfortunately, even with the book with its hints, we still can’t figure out the poem. 🙂 This is the first treasure hunt Forrest has ever designed and I wonder if he realized just how difficult it was going to be. He may not think it’s almost impossible to solve because he knows exactly what he was trying to convey in the poem and what his clues were – we don’t!

          • Thank you CjinCA,
            One of the hints Forrest is trying to convey may be words that sound the same but have different spellings. You picked up on this. What we read is not the same as what we hear & think. Manner – manor * hear – hair * loads – loads * How many words in the poem can anyone hear that are what they think it is?
            I think people should have an open mind when someone says we are all hair together to solve the poem.

            I love this game of words. I once red a poem, that lead me to a place, as eye have gone alone, heavy loads & water hi.

            I sea & hair what is the write interpretation IMO.

          • It might also be worth noting that (I can’t say ‘ALL’ but I CAN say at least 11) of the stories in the book are and were available online several years before the book came out even. (4 stories printed in west Yellowstone news, 2 doncontra website, etc) so one wouldn’t “NEED” to Purchase a book as many stories are available elsewhere. F also reprinted many on his website for ppl to view for free. My thought it only that “IF” one were to entertain that this final
            “Collection” of Stories is, indeed, necessary…one would be able to
            Find all info elsewhere….but the book certainly would make
            It easier….

            Also worth noting is the inside front cover dust jacket….forrest writes that if one can “unlock the clues within these pages” they have a decent shot at going home with the chest.

            I’m only saying this as a POSSIBLE way of viewing his ‘final
            collection’ 100% only
            a thought I can’t actually discount.

          • Right Jamie. We know now that some of the stories were already published in other places before he put them in his book, but not all of them were, and we don’t know which stories contain the hints. Are the hints in the previously published stories or in the new ones or a combination? Plus we don’t know if he was thinking about writing the book years before it actually came out and thought those old stories contained some hints that fit his poem well. Forrest kept telling us to read the poem, read the book, read the poem, read the book, over and over. So even though no one HAS to buy the book, I’m glad I did as it’s a lot easier having the stories in one place rather than trying to ferret them out of all the stuff on the internet.

          • I 100% agree- I meant that in regards to people that mention F saying you only “NEED” the poem, so you don’t NEED the book….with stories available elsewhere one wouldn’t necessarily “need” the book. Personally I think it’s easier to have them right there too…but you don’t “need” the book, one can spend countless hours ferreting through the Internet too. Only “need” the poem

            @uken2it – I totally agree in the anomalies. My favorite one is the Lewis and Clark story in West Yellowstone News. He speaks of the good map that they burned. In that version he specifically states it was a 194* Forest Service map. I have a list of the 11 stories and the anomalies I could find around here somewhere. I’ll email them your way when i dig it up.

          • I didn’t have Forrest’s books to come up with a solution that I liked. After I read the first article about his treasure hunt, I started reading his blog and from there found Dal’s blog and a few others to give me ideas about what WWWH, a blaze etc, could possibly mean and those ideas plus on-line maps helped a lot. I finally decided to buy TTOTC and that helped confirm for me a solution …….. or two. 🙂 But without those resources, I’m not sure people can come up with a good solution with just the poem. You don’t NEED the book but I think you need something else besides the poem.

          • That would be great Jamie. Ordering0407 at att and net. AN ANOMOLY interest me too.
            Sometimes f puzzles me, but I don’t believe I need cryptology, just (7) more clues. “Goes along to chaotic tats den” is an example of the use of unfamiliar words, who knows that tat means handmaiden lace? I think f’s use of words go along these lines. Anomalous or atypical or a typical?

          • There are also clues in the book. I don’t find much vocal agreement on this and I wonder if I am missing something but here goes again.
            “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure: [poem.] There are also other subtle clues sprinkled in the stories.” pg 131-133 TTOTC

          • Jake, hunch here. sorry i wasnt laughing at you. I just thought normal manor was funny. you can punch me in the gut at Fennboree if you want to. I always pick up on wordplay and run with it. like this….just take the chest and go in peace.
            to me means to take a photo of the chest and go win peas. i got lots of photos of chests but no peas yet. my feet have failed me i guess Jake.

          • hunch, I like peas, but what do they have to do with THE chest? Just had to make THE clear, cause I am not sure where you have gone with this. I will admit somethings go right over my head, never to return.

          • Jake, hunch…..is safe to say you are head over heels for my idea?

            go win peas. thats a toughie for sure.

          • Alright hunch, maybe I don’t always pick up on word play.
            I don’t think it’s Pease Air force Base in NH where I lived although the AF maybe right. How about winning a game of marbles? They sorta look like big peas. I feel like heels over head may have something to do with it, as in going for a swim.
            OK, I give up. My brain now feels like the size of a pea.
            If you don’t want to give it away publicly, you can send me an email. I won’t lose any sleep trying to figure out what your trying to convey. I have a very goooood solve, that has nothing to do with – go in peas. Please!

          • E Mail;
            To: Jake Faulkner
            From Hunch

            Dear Jake,
            heres what I did. I bypassed the take the chest line and focused on peace(peas).
            an example of what FF does i think.

            while you all is out trompin’ around in the woods, gettin cold, gettin lost and who knows what else. i been taking photos of chests and sending them to the old man. i figgered out that the chest in the poem is not the bronze box. its a different chest altogether. the poem has led me to several chests. well, the poem and hints from the book.

            the go win peas was nothing.
            so long Jake
            end email.

            where do I put the stamp?

          • Well hunch you sure don’t have a lack of imagination. So, I wonder what type of reply your getting from Forrest sending all these pictures of chests? Does he think your crazy or on drugs? What do you think he did with the bronze chest?

            Now, I must say this is one of the weirdest solves I had read. I guess anything is possible but the probability is near 0.001 % IMO.

          • hey Jake, hunch again….yeah ol FF aint too happy with me. i kinda got under his skin with my chest photos. but hey, i was just being brave and in his face . ha ha

            but lookie here Jake, if I have taken the chest and gone in peace as stanza four instructs, then why do I need title to the gold at a later date? per last stanza.

            If i retrieve the bronze box im gone man, youll never see or hear from me again. too many people would want my money. I dont care about title. i dont want a title. so here’s the deal…take the chest (a photo) go in peace, and win a prize (title to the gold).

            and Jake you asked me where is the bronze box now? who cares? its not part of the game.

            tromp around in the woods and find treasure.
            but what you’re really looking for is the chest.

            you can thank me later Jake. its ok.

          • hunch,
            Did ole FF get a restraining order on you for sending him inappropriate pictures of chests? LOL.
            Be real careful about getting in peoples faces, it just may be a little creepy.
            Thanks hunch, that was really helpful.
            And please stay 1 mile away from ole ff.

    • Well Seeker, since my boots aren’t mired in a place that prevents me from considering multiple options to extricate myself and thus proceeding to my goal :), that is something I have given not some little thought to……. I’ll play.

      If it is a book, I think not TTOTC.

      After all, the Poem was written at the time he felt he might want to hasten the inevitable. Had that transpired there would be no TTOTC book. So, let’s proceed with the, general, book theory.

      Maybe the Poem is utilized to identify, locate, and describe what you should be searching for within a book?

      From the Poem we know the “secret where” is kept there. The “secret where is the chest location.

      Where else would he keep the chest’s location, except in a book available to all?

      “Hint of riches old and new”, maybe “riches” could refer to authors and their works, both old and new? After all, he did dedicate a chapter of TTOTC to “old riches” (Important Literature).

      Now, where would you go, with your treasures (he has said imagination is a treasure), and find “riches” old and new.

      And, what do you see in the Poem that would guide you there, identify the old “riches” and describe what you are searching for within it???

      Your question–>” So back to the old question I have asked before, Are we reading the poem wrong?”

      *** quite possibly!! 🙂

      • “After all, the Poem was written at the time he felt he might want to hasten the inevitable. Had that transpired there would be no TTOTC book.”

        You could say the same for, at the time of being hospitalized and first thoughts of The Poem. I can only answer [ as this is relatively a new concept I’m suggesting]
        The key is flexibility.. he was going to make it work no matter what.
        Twenty plus years after the first thought… that is patience to it’s fullest.

        But you’re still looking to linear… to what I’m attempting to say [ and not very well apparently ].

        Breaking it down.
        Word that is key… “Title” referring to TTOTC book.
        Poem hold the clues only… no deciphering clues to the chest, but deciphering how to read / find the answers in the book.
        Book… tells exactly how to locate the chest. but can not be done without the poem, as it is the Key to unlocking it. [the book]

        That’s the quick version, yet this is only a theory… Yet, going through all fenn’s comments i can recall at this moment… It does seem to be plausible… in theory.
        I’ll need to Dissect more…

        • OK Seeker, this is another one I’m not going to argue with you about. Since, as you indicated, it is a new concept in its infancy.

          Come back when you can explain how the poem tells you that the word “title” is referring to TTOTC. Surely the Poem must give some hint as to that?….or is just a guess??

          When you come back to explain more, also please explain where “title” (TTOTC) fits in the hierarchy of the clues. If, as you’re theorizing, the word “title” is referring to TTOTC, it would seem to have to be known early on in the Poem? It would have to be clue #1, or at the least clue #2…….now, how could that be when the word “title” is in the last stanza?? 🙂

          I will be looking forward to you expounding more on this new theory.

          Good Luck to Ya Guy!!!

          • Regarding TTOTC title, Perhaps the end game is thrilling with a Big reveal. Look up “chase” def’s. as applies to bronze. You know like those home decorating channels focus on their big reveal.

          • Ok Loco, I like a challenge, if I didn’t I wouldn’t be here. So thanks for keeping an open mind for the time being. I’m still not jumpin for joy over it either.But it does seem like a plausible theory.
            I’ll come back with a better understand of the thought process for critiquing. But I’ll leave with this… try and not to think where or what order The “title” fit in, it actually is not ‘one’ of the clues in this theory. In fact stanza 5 and 6 [ in this theory ] seem to “tell” that they are instructions, if you will, how it all come together.

            Fenn stated, the clues/hints in the book where in no order in the book, and not there to aid the searcher… What this may be leaning at, is the poem tells the reader how to place them in order, that will aid the searcher… a bending / twisting of words perception line of thinking is needed.

          • @loco, because I like Yellowstone, I have tended to bend the poem to my liking, for example, the idea of playing with “give you title” as the possibility of a clue:
            – give = grant (Grant)
            – you = U
            – title = President

            US Grant was the president who signed Yellowstone into our first official national park.

          • Loco,

            I have put more thought in the the possibility to this theory…
            The more I think about this direction of thought the more plausible it becomes.

            I could go through a thousands of comments and wording from the book to help show it’s usability, however that would take up so much space Goofy would need a second server.

            The simplest explanation is [ < lol I had to laugh at that myself] ; Think of the poem as schematics, and the book as the material. Clues "contained" in the poem show the "order" of which the final construction is to be place for the final results [ precisely]. The "material / references" is not in any order, it's not "intended to be in any order" or "placed [ in order ] to aid", and without the "Instructions" of how to put them in order… you have nothing but a jumble of pieces, and they are of no help or use, … at this point.

            Now keep in mind the possible reason for the usage / avenue of the poetic terminology of a poem… the freedom to use words as a writer "needs."
            "So hear me all and listen good" Instructions to just that, the usage of words in a poem. Such as; "Your effort will be worth the cold" No temperature or season involved… simply stating Cold as in touch… metal box and contents.
            "If you are brave [ meaning; take on a "difficult challenge", nothing to do with bravery or fear]. "In the wood" … The properties of the book, {not forest or woodland involved] Interpretation; If you take on my challenge, you'll need the book / references for the correct answers.
            " I give you"… actually telling the reader, I give you the answers he already knows? "title" TTOTC, which is in gold." Poetic freedom to use words to be straightforwards. Interpretation; The answers to the clues are in the book, the poem set the answers in the correct order…

            In theory and in premise, the poem "clues" are to be used to locate the correct material / answers and build them in the correct order… And possibly the reason, You don't need to read the book~{at first} you need to decipher the clues {first }{ To understand How to use the clues to find the answers. " read the poem over and over and over again, then read the book… that is what fenn said he would do.

            While we all read this poem one way, as the poem clues are the answers to the location… We use every thing available to us, google, other books and poems, hundreds of maps, etc. and the book to help "find" clues / hints to answers in the poem.
            Yet, do a 180 degree turns [ mirror image ] and use the clues for organize the answers from the book seemingly is plausible… difficult, but not impossible.
            "It's not who you are" [ what it is ] " it's who they think you are" [ what I can make you think it is ]

            A theory in the making…. there's no point I can argue that this is a correct method of reading the poem… but, neither can anyone else conclude their reading of the poem is correct as well… The decision maker here is the retrieval of the chest. Confidence does not equal factual.

          • @Seeker,

            Very good!! Who knows, maybe viewed that way the book will show the chest really is in the top of a bush!!

            You wrote–> “And possibly the reason, You don’t need to read the book~{at first} is you need to decipher the clues {first }{ To understand How to use the clues to find the answers.”

            Maybe you could work these into that scenario:

            1. Concerning the little girl from India—Forrest certainly seems to intimate that she could solve the first two clues…..without the book?

            2. Forrest has related that some searchers have physically walked past clues 3-7. How could they “walk” past the clues in your scenario, if the 9 clues are just meant to understand how to use them to find answers in the book?

            always a pleasure………loco 🙂

          • The dreaded… what’s a hint, what’s a clue…

            If I gave you a book about colors and light refractions… And in Chapter 1 it explains ‘white’ reflects all colors of light. In chapter 5 it explains the color red shows heat levels. In chapter 10 it explains Black absorbs all colors. Now In chapter 15, I present a riddle that contains 3 clues and if understood properly, you’ll win the prize, a new gold car.

            I tell you the book has unintentional hints/clues and they are in no order to help aid in your solution. All you need is to “decipher the clues” … Then I tell you should you take on this challenge “I’ll give you… title” to the gold. I also tell you in a form of a question and answer… ‘ I know the answers, do you?’

            The Riddle: What’s black and white and read all over?

            When you look at the clues [ with no prior knowledge of the answers ] you may see three colors and you research the snotts out of those three colors from every avenue available to you. But why tell you I have the answers? that seems redundant… of course I know the answers I wrote the riddle and the book.

            The answers for the riddle’s clue are in order too… found in the book. Black c-10 and white c-1 are not colors at all… red c-5 is a color, but ‘read’ is not a color when “twisted” to make it work… The order of the answers must follow the riddle’s clues order, to be solved precisely. 10-1-5 if you were wise enough to spot the answers… Black and white are not colors… re[a]d is also, not a color to keep the riddle’s clues in the correct order and understanding.

            While stanza 5 and 6 seems to be nothing of major importance to any solve or discussion…[ the 9 line, 9 clues theory… I’m starting to see a possibility they may be the most important… instruction that may just be saying… “I gave you” the answers…”in the wood”, put them in the correct order to match the clues…
            And sure, A comprehensive knowledge of geography ‘might’ help.

            I’m working on my book at the moment… so I haven’t put a whole lot of time into this method. But it is an interesting line of thinking.

        • That’s OK Seeker. It’s evident that you were distracted and not giving your full attention to the discourse. Please let me know when the book is finished. It should be an interesting read, to say the least.

          later……..

          • @Seeker, the one thing I like about the theory is that we cannot say it’s wrong. Would have to be careful on how interpretations of the wording are meant. Line 16 in the poem does suggest the reader to reference the book, so the thought may be plausible.
            As far as the “key” word goes, I would disagree on it being title. But who am I? I just don’t see any “support” info that tells me that the word is title. I’m thinking more in line with the word is “KEY”. I mean, he’s actually telling us “a word (that is KEY)” Just because the word is “key”, everyone jumps on the definition of key bandwagon. Replace the word key with any other word. Then you would think it’s that word. But, since he says key, well there must be some magical word because of the definition of the word key. Replacing the word key,one would not do that,they would just say the word is that word. Same concept here.
            And, from the book, “a little of me is also inside the box” tells me that it’s the key to the chest that’s in the box, and also, he (Forrest Fenn) is the “key”. You can get that from the poem line 9. (look at the last five letters and read from right to left). Basically spells it out right there. Of course, that’s my opinion, can’t say it’s wrong, but can’t say it’s right 100% either.
            Lastly, yes I agree,stanzas 5&6 are probably the most important. So many think it ends after the 4th stanza, they couldn’t be more wrong. As far as the “path” clues go, there are still 4 more clues there (in stanzas 5 & 6), IMO.
            With all that said, you are right, the poem and the book go hand in hand. But like he said, all you need is the poem. Yeah, if you want to make it almost impossible to solve. Just do not see someone going in confidence without the hints/clues in the book.

          • ACE,
            There is only one way that I know to get ahold of Forrest Fenn in private conversation.
            FIND THE CHEST!
            He might just leave SF if your going to give him the bracelet.
            Good luck!

  49. I was thinking about, ‘I’ve done it tired, now I’m weak’ as sort of like how a fish that spawns might feel after traveling great distances….IMO

  50. Since I am not holding the TC in my hands, my ideas are as good or bad as the next, but saying that the poem is only a guide as to how to read the book, seems a far reach for me. ff has said over and over. All you need is the poem and a good map. Read the poem, read the book, then read the poem over and over again. Can not get much plainer than that to me. But what do I know?

    • @JD just curious if you were influenced by ff mentioning of ‘Journal of a Trapper’ in selecting your search area? There are a few maps in that book. It’s funny sometimes when I click on an Amazon link it will tell me people who ordered something also ordered such and such, other maps or books relating to the search!

  51. IMO it would be like telling a bunch of atheists that you found GOD…They would tell you how dumb you were, how it is impossible that YOU found GOD, and that without proof, they refuse to believe you…MANY people have claimed to have found it…and all have been chastised or naysayed to death…I would still tell people I found it…but when they demanded proof, I would refuse to provide it…instead I would e-mail Forrest a list of contents, so he was aware it had been located…then leave it up to him. If he was already gone, I would simply share my solve so everyone could go look for themselves…but I would not claim I had found it.

  52. Besides…unless you intend to destroy all the contents…or just keep them for yourself, eventually it will be known…there aren’t too many pre Columbian necklaces and Spanish emerald rings floating around out there…and nuggets the size of hens eggs are fairly rare too.

  53. I can’t locate the dream topic place to post this buried treasure dream I had this morning: I’m down in a canyon with some other searcher and there is snow all around, the chest has been opened and all the contents are scattered about in the snow, two green emeralds stand out against the snow. For some reason a glass smoking pipe appears, all very dainty and layered with colorful stones, then I hold an old sword and pull it out of metal scabbard, the edge needs sharpening and is pitted…there are lots of silver coins all stuck together so this must not be Indulgence! Where did ‘Nightmare on Chase Street’ disappear to? I remember trying to determine where the place was located but it didn’t seem to matter, just getting everything loaded up into a basket and lifted out of there was the plan.

  54. There is a treasure map and if you find it, your almost there. 🙂 The poem and the BOOK will take you the rest of the way. 🙂

    • Which is the opposite of some of the comments Forrest has made in the past. ““It seems logical to me that a deep thinking treasure searcher could use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure…….” 🙂

      • I wondered about that also CJ. It seems he is saying to use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the chest; but not let logic distract from the poem.

        This is like his “think big” statements.

        • Kind of like don’t do the wrong thing for the right reasons?

          …or don’t apply the correct method towards the wrong direction?

          Like ‘Don’t get distracted into applying good logic to irrelevant tangents?

  55. Cholly

    No “Journal of a Trapper” – Just the poem, the two books (used sparingly – 2 hints from 1, 1 hint from the other) GE, a good Topo and minimal research on-line.

  56. Logic has been my key. Look at every sentence, figure out (logically) what it is saying or asking. Find a logical solution on GE or a good Topo. Use a little imagination. Remember things from the book that might be hints, and voila…before you know it, you are at line 4, stanza 6. Repeat reading the poem a time or three – fine tune a couple of clues, and wait for spring.

  57. With respect to logic…
    I use a Venn Diagram at one point in my search process. It doesn’t (IMO) directly relate to any of the 9 clues, but it hints of an area to search.
    Geoff
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  58. In all the years of bending my mind day after day searching……I never have been as sure of my location as I do today….I have not had this feeling of confidence till now. Will be going when the snow melts more.

    Lou Lee, chased by bears and lived to tell the tale. Not anything anyone said, just listening good. And thinking about the poem a lot.

    • Go gettem Lou Lee. If I ever found it, I’d still want Forrest to call my boss and give my two weeks notice. Hahaha. What a trip that would be.

  59. Been studying hundreds of commentary and the poem itself ever since TTOTC became a public obsession. On occasion my Father used to say; “It’s not what they said, it’s what they did not say which is more important.” So based on this wise statement alone, there was something Forrest didn’t say in all of my “searches” that in my opinion would be paramount to finding the treasure. This missing information which I’m withholding for now, coupled with PIBTHOB has led me to believe that I have solved this riddle complete with all of its clues and FF’s public statements. And I do firmly think it is in fact a riddle. This coming week just may prove my dear departed Dad to be right on in his wisdom.

  60. “Don’t look for the treasure any place where an 80-year-old man could not have taken it.”

    and, more recently…

    “I could go if I wanted to, even at 85.”

    So, obviously, how far is too far?

    I’m not sure how much of a difference five years makes, but since this comment I have been trying to figure out how far an 85-year-old could walk (feel free to chime in, Forrest). I don’t know a lot of elderly people, so I don’t have much direct experience. My granny is in her mid-80s, but she’s a lifelong smoker and mostly confined to a scooter.

    I assume it largely depends on the individual person, but I have to admit I’ve taken to creeping around sizing up old people at the local Walmart and Cracker Barrel. I haven’t gotten the nerve to ask any of them if they’ve been on any hikes lately, but I really, really wanted to. I’m just not very good at stalking people.

    Finally, I gave up and turned to Google: “85 year old hiker”.

    Turns out a guy got stuck on a trail near Los Angeles in 2014 (don’t worry, he was found OK).

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/27/donald-buchanan-missing_n_4671505.html

    This provides us ONE example, at least. This is the trail he was tackling:

    http://socalhiker.net/hiking-mt-baden-powell/

    He made it near the top before he ran into trouble and decided to stay put. The trail is a little over 8 miles round trip, so he accomplished about four of them. It’s unclear whether he just got stuck, or couldn’t make it back down, but he certainly thought he could do the whole 8 miles. It’s rated as “Strenous” too, with an overall elevation gain of 2,900 ft.

    Probably not the best idea to go around pitting elderly gladiators against each other in imaginary contests of stamina, but, what do you think? Could Forrest take him?

    • Good Question,
      first If you are referring to the recent article I believe FF said he could still go to it, which is a lot different then recovering the TC or what he had to do to hide it.
      Do I think, he could take the person in the article? Maybe, it is hard to say but that man was on a very difficult trail. That is a considerable amount of elevation gain in four miles. I do a lot of mountain hiking, I am fortunate to have trails out my back door and one section is very steep, goes for miles. I was amazed at a gentleman last summer who did it regularly and he looked to be close to ninety.
      jl

    • Hello Jeremy. I believe Mr. Fenn is in good physical condition to be able to accomplish the climb shown. The comment about being close to the “top of the mountain” may be that he had driven near the top or the place where the chest lies is already considered high in elevation, but on flat grounds. Let me give an example. Many people search Yellowstone and that’s in higher elevation and in the mountains, yet, many areas are considered flat grounds. Flat/level grounds would be much easier to accomplish and the distance could be greater to consider. What are your thoughts?

      • I’m just wondering how far he could go rather than how far he did go.

        But I’ll go ahead and say that I’ve always discounted flat land ideas. I believe it’s at least somewhat uneven terrain. Over flat/level grounds it’s certainly much easier to make a single trip to your car because you could just toss the whole thing in a roller bag or hand cart. Two trips means one trip wasn’t feasible.

        • Hello Jeremy. Using a hand cart or roller bag over terrain would be a nuisance. Ask a mother who tries to push a stroller over ground/grass…not a good idea. Wheels would catch onto any little it would find. If Mr. Fenn was in an area that started off with people in the general area, can you imagine the attention he would draw wondering why he would be pulling a wheeled cart/bag into the woods? He did say it was a heavy backpack and it took him two times to hide it. Now considering a heavy backpack, how far could he travel if there was an incline? It would seem close if that would be the case. If no one is going to stumble upon it, then it would seem the ground wouldn’t be too tough to travel. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

          • Coolers with large wheels, tackle boxes on large wheels, ie. anything with larger wheels, those go out in fields all the time. He said no one was around when he hid it, but even if there were onlookers, an elderly man with a roller isn’t going to attract too much notice. Again, just my opinion, but pretty sure it’s not anywhere flat.

          • We might not be on the same page. I’m saying that because he didn’t use a roller (and used a backpack) that the terrain is likely not flat.

          • Very possible! 🙂 In one of my solutions, it may be rocky, but I don’t think there’s any elevation I need to worry about and somewhat level. I wasn’t able to complete my path because of Mother Nature. Another is near a road. My other, has a small incline, in a field with some rocks, about 300′-500′ away from where the vehicle was parked.

          • Hmm… over short distances of a few hundred feet, I think, the question of how you get it there doesn’t really matter and why not two trips? (Like taking in the groceries, not much effort or distance)… so I’m going to amend my opinion to either not flat or short distance.

            Disclaimer: I don’t know where the heck it is. 🙂

          • Hello Jeremy. I have a question for you, if I may. Let’s say Mr. Fenn started on a trail and then went off of it to hide the treasure. If the trail had absolutely no elevation, would you consider that level? I’m just curious.

          • But again, this is why you shouldn’t listen to me. Just because I think it’s easier to take a roller over even terrain and then open it, take the contents out, and walk a few hundred feet off-trail, in no way means that it’s what Forrest did. All it means is that I’m lazy. Maybe he enjoyed the walk and didn’t mind taking two trips when only one was necessary. Maybe he had to take two trips because it wasn’t even terrain. Who knows?

          • That might be too far to walk. That’s 16 miles total… even over flat land that’s probably too much for an 80 year old, in my opinion. Plus, he’s a man of means. Why not ride a horse?

          • Hello Jeremy. Thinking about the horse comment you made. Why do you think Mr. Fenn wouldn’t have used a horse? He didn’t have to travel far to hide the treasure chest? Too much attention and his family would notice and wonder what he was doing? Maybe there wasn’t a place close enough to where he hid it to rent a horse? What are your thoughts?

          • He said previously that he walked “less than a few miles”. I don’t think he said if that was one way, or total for the day. I personally lean towards the less than 1-2 miles each way. I think a horse (or other means) would attract some attention and at that distance it wasn’t necessary.

        • I think that 6 hrs @ 3 mi per hr max = 18 mi and that would be in fairly easy terrain. Now if you consider that he did it in one afternoon placing the contents but didn’t count the walk out that could put it as far as 6 miles from the car. If you want to count the trip back as part of the time your at 4.5 mi from the car.

          If you have a spot that is longer then a 6 mi. walk one way then I think it probably is physically impossible. IMO
          jl

          • I forgot to add that according to FF you can embellish time or distance by 15 percent, so I reserve the right to be off by 15 percent one way or the other.
            jl

          • Hello JL. I agree with you. I believe 4 miles one way, total of 16 miles would be the maximum, and done within 6 hours and this includes the time to hide it. As for terrain, I believe it’s not going to be too difficult to reach the treasure. The one thing that I’ve been wondering is children. I truly believe young children couldn’t walk that distance, hence the comment they would need help. Now I’m considering anywhere between 15 lbs. to 50 lbs. for a child on one’s back, and someone else carrying a heavy backpack to the “X” marks the spot. With this in mind, would the area be smooth or a close distance from the vehicle? (I know close distance is an oxymoron, but I believe you know what I’m trying to convey.)

          • Ha, JL! I like your 15% comment! I’m also thinking about his recent comment about being 85 and how he could still get to the treasure spot. There’s 5-6 years difference to the time he hid it, to the current time. Although I believe Mr. Fenn is in great shape, I believe his body isn’t the same as 5-6 years ago, as much as we hate to admit it. (Darn Mother Nature!) Again, my thoughts seem to lean that it’s not difficult to get to, but challenging none the less.

          • JL At one point FF said that it was less than a “few” miles. It also just stated “If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.” Over the years, his 800 ft and 200 ft statements about how close someone was, IMO, makes me think that it is less that 800 from the parking spot (someone may have told him where they had driven?). Again just IMO. The “not close proximity of a human trail” is 200 ft off a “human trail”, Just my personal thoughts. 20 lbs is a lot of weight, even in a backpack. He never said it, but I think it will be close to a waterfall.

          • Not Obsessed,
            I always thought the definition of a few was three, at least until I looked up the definition. I was simply stating how far I thought it was physically possible, feel free to find your treasure in the bar ditch if that is where you want to look. Until its found nobody will know any of these answers. If the poem leads you to a spot that is a reasonable distance then a person should be confident.IMO
            jl

          • Hello Not Obsessed. Was it 800′ or 500′, and then got as close as within 200′? Do you feel you’re one of those that came so close?

          • JL,
            I don’t think Forrest could travel 3 miles in an hour for 1 hour straight in a wooded area, maybe on a paved surface. We could stretch it a bit maybe traveling a 25 minute mile max in the woods. We may not know what Forrest was trying to convey when he said “trips” But I think that would mean round trip to me.

            BTW, Forrest did not say: “according to FF you can embellish time or distance by 15 percent,”

            Forrest stated: “considering the fact that one of my natural instincts is to embellish just a little.”

          • Jake,
            Forrest stated: “considering the fact that one of my natural instincts is to embellish just a little.”

            Doesn’t that statement cover just about anything or everything? I am not trying to convince anyone I am correct. Just making a statement of my thoughts. As far as I am concerned if it is hidden close to the vehicle the less work I will have to do. If my spot falls outside of what some may think too far I am willing to walk a extra mile or two to prove myself right or wrong. IMO
            jl

    • “I could go if I wanted to, even at 85.”
      JP, I would assume this is his ace in the hole if he wanted to call it off.
      His statement tells me allot. I would have to think from where he parked his car to the resting place would be less than 2 miles, but more than 1 mile & an elevation increase of less than 500′.
      2 trips in one afternoon say 12:00 noon till 6pm? Anything later than 6pm may be considered evening, so we have 6 hrs to make the 2 trips.
      The more miles and elevation you add, reduces the chance he would have been able to do it in 6 hours. If you add another mile say 3 miles (12 miles total) @ walking 30 minute miles would put it at 6 hrs.
      Increase the elevation & you may find your self or Forrest switching back.

      My conclusion leads me to believe the treasure is about 1.5 miles from a road & about 350′ rise in elevation. all my opinion.

      • Is Mr. Fenn is that good of shape? That sounds like a lot walking for an 85 year old man carrying a load on his back.

        Windy City

      • We are going to Fennboree this year. As part of the trip, we would like to see Mr. Fenn’s former art gallery. Is it still an art gallery? If so, does anyone know the name of it?

        Thanks, Windy City

      • I guess I’ve always figured he averaged a 30 minute mile and put the distance at about 2 miles from the car. That makes it 4 hours walking time, plus 30 min for resting, plus 30 min to transfer contents to chest and hide it, that leaves an hour to actually drive to the parking area. If we’re considering an afternoon to be 6 hours.

        But I guess it all depends on what he means by “did it all in one afternoon”.

        • Yea PL289, that makes sense. We have to think realistic considering he was carrying some weight & it sure wasn’t a paved or cement pathway. So we have a few things that will slow you down, weight, terrain, thinner air, ground conditions & age. Did I forget anything?

        • It can also all depend on what he meant by ‘trips’. He could just be saying that he stumbled twice. IMO

  61. Less than a few miles can be anything less than that. With that in mind, my conclusion is total less than 1 mile two trips. Elevation 100 – 200 feet, and smooth terrain. Ate his sandwich, back at car and took the second hike.

  62. I was going to post this in the “Poetry” section, but, I couldn’t for some reason….

    ==========THIS IS FICTION=======
    You heard about this treasure, you found the poem.

    Warm waters halt? OK, double trouble.

    Read the book, found the blogs.

    Researched all the searchers’ searches.

    Waded through ideas from cryptic to crazy.

    Many A HAAA!!’s later,
    and many a Wait That Wont Work’s

    You have a spot.

    Sure, EVERYONE HAS A SPOT.

    …. must have missed some obvious flaw….
    It’s SO obvious, surely dozens of people have figured it out….

    …..no way I’m right, the Treasure would be long found….

    Re-research the searchers’ searches. Focus on your spot.
    Learn how to use f .

    Some have been close. That’s kinda promising.

    Plan. Gear. Time. Go.

    Google Earth doesn’t really show how steep things are.
    Or is that really a road I can go down, or a 4×4 blaze?

    That’s the place. Hmm, no blaze leaping out at me.
    Maybe over this way. Remember to look up and all around….
    …behind, too.

    Maybe get some altitude. See what you can’t from lower.

    Is that a … what is that? the blaze… gotta be.. gotta be..it is

    Moments later, an….unpleasant…epiphany…..

    I was SO SURE.

    But this is a cool spot. I bet the Major would envy my discovery.
    A view of the pass the braves watched day and night.

    And sheltered….
    “Mountains can suffer instant personality reversals.”

  63. All,

    Does anyone have an idea as to when Forrest stop flying, or when and if he sold his Piper Malibu Mirage?

    Seannm

    • seannm-
      Yes. That discussion has occurred in the past on this blog. The date he sold his plane, the bad check he ended up with, the present disposition of the plane and the date of his last certificate are all known. All of that occurred well before he hid the chest. But if you need more detail there is more on the blog.

      • Dal & All,

        I ask because Fenn said in the Moby Dickens interview that it had been 15 years since he got cancer from the time he hid the chest. If that is true and not a slip of “old-timer”math that would make it 2003, and if he sold his plane in 2002 then how did he get to his special place? If Fenn hid it in either NM or CO he could easily drive his personal vehicle or rental car without much notice.

        Now if by chance the treasure is in either Montana or Wyoming how did he transport himself and treasure. One theory I have is that his grandson Shiloh flew him to the state and waiting for him to return, now maybe Shiloh didnt know what he (Forrest) was doing because his visit to said state might have been somewhat official and masked his hidding of the treasure.

        Either way the chest was secreted well after Forrest sold his Piper and if its hidden in the most northern states then how did he get there? How would he convince Peggy tat 79-80 years old to drive that far or explain his absence.

        Seannm

  64. Sean, Forrest speaks about owning two different airplanes. While I’m not certain about dates, it’s been discussed on Dal’s blog as to when f quit flying. (Try Dal’s search engine). In my limited research I found that at least one of his planes matched tail numbers with his F-100 SS which would be sentimental to a pilot. I also wonder if the tail number might match elevation of the treasure chest.

    • You can check the FAA database for his last medical. I did but did not glean anything from the date. Not saying Mr Live By The Rules didn’t fly without a valid med cert, haha, but I doubt it.

  65. Back to the how far ff had to walk to the hidey place.

    For my solve, depending where I can park, I will have to travel between 330′ and 220′, over pretty level ground. Had planned on using two backpacks – 1 for treasure, 1 for chest (I am 74 years young) but bought a nice wheeled tool cart that can accomodate the chest (with its contents) nicely. Don’t want to take the time to make two trips. Hope I can lift cart and chest into my PU.

    Thanks – Just my opinion

    JD

    • JD,
      Aren’t you a little too close from put in point to where the treasure was hidden? I am not sure Forrest would want to hide the chest that close to a place you can drive to with a car. Just ignore my comment if your not taking a car or vehicle to within 330′ of where the treasure is. Sounds too close for comfort to me. IMO

    • my humble estimation puts the treasure about 1.5 – 2 miles from the trail head (or less). one afternoon to me equals about 5 hrs total. 1.5 miles per hour hiking speed. round trip from trail head to treasure and back again 2.5 hrs, 5 hrs total excursion for Forrest. anything more that 2 miles I won’t consider. I don’t think it would be much less than 1 mile because I think the guy likes remote places far from cars and such. all my humble opinion….

    • “(I am 74 years young) but bought a nice wheeled tool cart that can accomodate the chest (with its contents) nicely.”

      Exactly my point earlier.

  66. Jake

    Yes, I drove to my parking spot. If ff was observant, and made sure he was not observed, what difference does it make how close he was to where he parked when he hid the treasure? He was 80 and carrying a 20+ Lb. pack – twice. Not
    an easy task. Try it when you are 80. I am not being facetious, I just know how an “Older” body feels.

    • Well JD, maybe he was not observed but his car could be telling a different story unless there is very little traffic at the parking spot. I would hope it’s not a well traveled area. I am sure Forrest would be paranoid about someone spotting his car & said something similar.
      If I make it to 80, that would truly be a miracle. I will have to say you are one of the few who knows what may have been capable for Forrest, but don’t underestimate him too much. This is a man that has survived many possible extinctions & came out a stronger man.

  67. Jake

    read your comment a bit closer. You said “put in” point. I travel (by vehicle) almost 10 miles from my put in point to my parking lot…then travel 200 – 300′ to TC.

    • JD,
      I don’t know your whole solve but you gave bits & pieces here & there & definitely think your solve is pretty solid going by what Forrest has said & not said. Your parking spot is well within the 2 trips in a afternoon. I think you have the right general area as well from past comments. You are closer than most. I will be heading to that general are I hope in June. Just place a gold coin in the spot so I know we were right in the end. Preffably a double eagle.

  68. As a hypothetical. Let’s say that FF carried a fishing pole as he went from car to hidey place. How much attention would he draw to himself, or his car? Not much I would guess. Most “Solves” involve water of some sort – stream, river, waterfall etc. Carrying a fishing pole seems logical to me. Most fishing spots are pretty close to roads of some kind.

    Good luck to all on their searches.

  69. Mr. Fenn had mentioned before that there would not be any notes to be found. Does that mean all the clues are self contained in the poem, or am I reading it in the wrong way? Anyone? RC.

    • @RC IMO, all that is needed is the poem, maybe the issue is finding the one and only WWWH of the many that are out there….maybe it’s a crap shoot as to finding the one and only WWWH…

      • Finding the right WWWH is definitely needed……. and canyon ……and HOB. I think we (treasure hunters) seem to find what we want where we want. Following the clues is a lot of work and as human beings we tend to look for the the easy short cut.
        jl

  70. I’ve drug many a deer back to the trunk, but as I got older I began bringing a big wheel wheelbarrow. Its pretty amazing how you can maneuver that thing through rough terrain.

  71. at 69 if I have to walk 1.5 miles 4 times to get the the treasure chest it can just stay there

  72. It would be difficult for anyone if the poem is the only thing needed to find the chest. There may be a message somewhere that could help us with the search;Unless I am dreaming it. I have found something out there but if the poem is the only thing we need ,then I am lost, or maybe not. RC.

  73. Forrest has said over and over again, all you need is the poem, and a good map to solve the puzzle. GE can take the place of a good map. The books have a couple of hints, but Forrest did not deliberately place hints in the books to help the solvers. A good knowledge of geography is helpful. These are not quotes, just paraphrasing. Look at the “Hints” at top of page. Might get you unstuck.

    • @ JD Well, the thing is that if the poem is everything you need then and only then the treasure has to be there, where one begins, right? There is no other solution, I believe, to the search. But we do not think is there because it goes against all clues, so it seems. IMO. R.C.

  74. It is essential to get the first clue right – That is obvious. Question is, what is the first clue? Stanza #1 or wwwh? Get this right, and step-by-step (IMO) it all falls into place…Either way, getting wwwh is absolutely crucial. Wrong wwwh = NO solution.

    • I believe the first clue is the first stanza. Why would Mr. Fenn write it in the first place if it was not crucial? I think that is the first clue, but that’s only me. RC.

      • I have though about that before as well. Maybe at least a hint in the first stanza. Like the word “in”. Why not “on”, “through” or “to”. What type of thing or place is something you go in” to?

      • RC
        First clue first stanza seems logical. Second stanza “Begin It” is fairly obvious that is where to begin. So the question is do we ignore the obvious and go with logic? Does obvious trump logic? A person could even say that ” Begin ” is logical and obvious and therefore should be the starting point. Its not where the staring point is, it’s where F can make you think is the starting point.
        jl

  75. All,

    My opinion is that each stanza, line, clue key word whatever you want to call them, contigously narrows the location geographically. And as Fenn has said start at the beginning.

    Seannm

  76. begin where wwwh and take it in the canyon down not far but to far to walk – that’s where youll find the home of brown imo

  77. Moments ago, I read the following from a person who goes by the name of “George” on another person’s blog. Their words are as follows:

    ‘JC1117 – you said:
    (Hasn’t Fenn done enough already? And that you’d give him back your bracelet).

    I’m sure you’ve heard the saying, we pay for our thrills. As I see it, 65,000 went out looking for his gold, all of them had some thrill but Forrest had more thrill then all of them combined, vicariously living through each and everyone of them.

    Mr. Fenn 11/14/2014
    Moby Dickens bookstore
    I don’t feel like I’ve given anything away. The person who finds that chest will have earned it.’

    I have a question to ask of each of you, please. If you were to find the treasure chest, would you return the turquoise bracelet to Mr. Fenn, especially knowing it has sentimental value to him?

    As for me, without a doubt or hesitation…I would certainly return it to him.

      • Thank you for your response, onuat. I truly do appreciate it. I’m so happy to hear you and Windy City would return his bracelet. George had more to say and I appreciate his honesty, but was saddened to learn he would not return it.

    • Hi pdenver. Of course I would return it, freely. I would just ask for some chit chat in return. 🙂

        • I’ve thought about if I found the chest…and decided that, I’d contact Fenn to see if he would meet with me, and non-chalantly approach him with my wife wearing the jewelry…and then see if notices it. If he does, smiles will abound….

          Cheers!

          • Hello Tim (ZosoRocks). Thank you for your response. It was fun reading how you would introduce the bracelet to Mr. Fenn to see if he would notice it. With that thought in mind, I can now imagine him looking at everyone’s wrists as he passes by people to see if they’re wearing it. 🙂

    • I would return the bracelet without hesitation also. To do anything else with it after he has asked for it back is bad karma. Maybe someone very close to him, like his girls, or grandchildren, wanted it and he didn’t realize how important it was to them until after he had already stashed it with the treasure chest.

      Another less likely possibility is that he really doesn’t want it back but has asked for it back as another (but not the only) way to make sure he is notified when the treasure chest is found.

      • Hello Ramona. Thank you for your reply. You’ve made a couple good points. In one of the radio interviews, one of his granddaughters, Mika, had said she had hoped she could find the treasure so she could return the bracelet to her grandfather. She wasn’t concerned about the treasure chest. She sounds like a sweetheart, along with the rest of his family. The other, as a different way of knowing the treasure is found by contacting him about the bracelet is also a good thought. Something tells me that there’s still a different way he would know, but I just don’t know what or how, especially when there are others who would choose to keep everything and go into hiding as I’ve been told.

    • I would certainly return Mr. Fenn’s bracelet. It would be a shame IMHO if the finder did otherwise. In one of my very first emails to him, I asked whether he would like to be informed if and when someone found the treasure. He was kind enough to respond in usual form with one of his well thought out and sophisticated replies by stating…”Yes”, f. LOL!

      I would gladly return the bracelet which would also honor his request to be informed about the find. I also believe all the searchers need to know, particularly in light of the recent sad events surrounding Randy’s disappearance. Hopefully, we could share a good laugh about all the good times he has brought to so many who have enjoyed the Chase. Beyond that, I haven’t given much thought to the whole thing….still searching.

      • Hello Windsurfer. Thank you for your reply. I truly do appreciate it. Thank you for sharing your communication with Mr. Fenn in regards to the treasure chest and whether or not he would like to be told. His response is short and sweet and to the point. 🙂

  78. I certainly would return the bracelet. I need the value of the TC, but would hate to sell its contents piecemeal. I would be much happier to return the whole TC to Forrest so that he could properly put it on display…IF he wanted to involve himself, and then PAY me the appraised value of the TC and contents. I doubt that he would want to do this though, since he has said that it is out of his hands.

    Any other rich folks out there…IF I find it?

    • Hello JD. Thank you for your reply. I have mentioned to my family I would ask Mr. Fenn if he would like me to have the treasure chest go to the Smithsonian for display, and to tell the story. Those were his thoughts if the treasure was found in a 1000 years, to a reporter he spoke to years ago. It’s in the Media Coverage section somewhere. Certainly a way he would continue to influence the future. 🙂

      It’s true he said it’s out of his hands and there were no strings attached to how one should handle the treasure once found, but I would still ask. Looking for rich folks, JD? Christie’s or Sotheby’s may be of interest to you, should you find it.

  79. I have already written a poem containing 9 clues that i will give Forrest once i find the treasure. The Poem if followed precisely will lead Forrest to his bracelet. 🙂

    Seannm

    • Seanm that is really funny! Great idea! I would still give him his chest back… But, I might try on the bracelet and if it fits me nice and I like it we might have to have a little chit chat on weather I would sell it back to him 🙂

      • Hello spallies. Thank you for your reply. It seems to me there are a couple people who would like to chit-chat with Mr. Fenn about the bracelet. 🙂

      • Hello Jake. That is interesting. Would the bracelet be the only item on the table and winner takes all? Or, you have the bracelet and Mr. Fenn would need to put something else on the table and winner takes all?

  80. In consideration of all the good the Flyer has given to his Country and its people; what good could it bring someone to keep this bracelet?

    I happen to believe that Forrest has likely and continues still; in giving a great deal more than one might even begin to know.

  81. I have a couple more thoughts about how FF will know when the chest is found and this is just a possibility and IMO only. None of us know or will know until the chest is found. I read or heard FF say that he had thought about putting a note or check or something for $100,000 in the chest and the finder could collect that immediately. Now I don’t remember where I read or heard this. So don’t quote me and if you want to know specifically where and when he said this you will have to research.

    Anyway, I’m not convinced that he didn’t do exactly that or something like that, a sum of money that could be claimed immediately and he would then know about it. It makes much more sense than a beacon in the chest or constantly having to check on the chest, etc. As we all know the treasure chest isn’t going to be instant money. It’s not a box of cash so having some cash up front makes sense. Now why you would need cash up front is another whole blog post that I will save for another time because there’s more I want to say on this subject right now.

    I guess the main question concering this would be, what happens when FF passes? Well, he has said that he’s not going to tell his grandson where the chest is but that doesn’t mean he can’t leave his grandson in charge of the funds. And I think that was the plan. And on this thought, that would add to FF putting a lock of his hair in the chest. If the information that there was a fund was ever found out or leaked, the only way to prove you have found the chest is to provide the lock of hair so that not just anyone could claim the funds.

    There are several problems with this theory though, one example is what if a rich person finds the treasure and could care less about the $100,000, or whatever sum it is, and just takes the chest and doesn’t notify FF. Then the sum of money would just sit there forever and the responsibility for it would probably be passed down from generation to generation. What a nice family tradition and honor. Let’s hope it is an interest building sum ha,ha.

    If FF figured out, after the fact, that the monetary amount or recognition for finding the chest might not matter to some, because the chest will be worth so much more or someone may want to just keep the chest for the sake of keeping it. If monetary value/recognition isn’t enough for someone to let FF know they have found the chest then he added a plan B. Appeal to our moral and sentimental side. Ask for an item in the chest.

    Does FF need to know when the chest is found after he passes? No but I think we searchers do and certainly his family will wonder for generations what ever happened to it. I think FF really has thought of everything.

    And now I need to appeal to your senses. Please, please, please don’t be trying to collect a lock of Forrest’s hair, you wouldn’t know the account information anyway. Please forgive me Forrest.

    • I believe the bio in the jar is of more value then the rest of the items in the chest. ” Remember,when they say it isn’t real, it’s still real.”
      The bio will reveal the real truth. IMO.
      Maybe what we are looking for is not the real thing. Perhaps we are supposed to donate it to a museum after we find it or leave it right where we found it and just take the jar and bracelet.
      The real thing could be sitting in a safety deposit box,waiting for the person who has earned it.
      Just my opinion …:)

    • Ramona, you’ve given this a lot of thought, and the following idea is simply a rabbit trail which follows yours down the hole. The word ‘And’ is DNA backwards. Perhaps Forrest left DNA strain matched numbers for his hair sample (which he stated he included in the chest) and the finder must read off the DNA numbers to a trustee to retrieve the gold and jewels safely held at another location…Forrest knows the gold/jewels are still where he left them because you need DNA or perhaps serial numbers from a currency bill, etc…all conjecture…I haven’t formed an opinion yet. But Wyoming’s 1,000 year trust dynasty laws lend to Wyoming being the best match legally for Forrest’s estate and the lucky finder.

      • Those are more interesting thoughts Lia. I do 100% believe that the chest, with all it’s contents, and the one thing he doesn’t want to talk about is hidden in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe. The one thing he doesn’t want to talk about adds mystery as to whether I could be right and it is instructions on how to collect an immediate payment of some amount by using the hair DNA. I’m not saying the actual treasure is locked away anywhere.

        • Ramona, I always appreciate your thoughts and well thought-out solutions. I agree with you that F’s TC is out there in the Rockies. Haven’t decided yet if the poem contains plan A + plan B = final solution or simply Plan A.

      • Thanks, but what information is it that you are providing? The clip you posted doesn’t say anything other than it’s conceivable that the treasure chest could be found without FF knowing. But he doesn’t think that’s going to happen. That’s my whole point. I was just offering thoughts on a valid way that could be done for discussion.

        • Ramona and that’s my point too, folks keep rambling on about Forrest knowing wether his chest is still there or not. The simple truth is, he does not know! There are no trackers/cameras etc all of this imaginary Mumbo jumbo clouds the picture. It’s simple, a man took his box out years ago and secreted it in the Rockies somewhere. In fact in a very recent video interview when asked if it was still in the wild he said this.

          They can’t produce a photograph, they can’t describe the contents of the chest, so you know I know they’re bluffing.

          Secondly I’d like to just say that the people telling him they found the treasure chest are a few tools shy of a load. If a person had found his treasure chest they would never tell him they’d found it unless they wanted to be known in which case they would produce evidence. Thirdly any person who had found it and wanted to remain anonymous would not say anything, either to Forest Fenn, the media or anyone else.

          • Ok Indiana Jnse2i I see your point now. I agree with most of it. But since it’s winter and most of us are not putting boots on the ground right now. It doesn’t hurt to review information, think, and offer possibilities. Will any of what I said in my original post help anyone find the treasure chest? No. But 99% of the posts on this and other blogs offer no real assistance. In reality it’s just a bunch of people hashing out possibilities. Which reminds me of something else I wanted to add.

            It does seem that Forrest is looking for some type of validation that the treasure chest has been found. For what? Why? If it’s out of his hands why does he care anymore? Why is he asking for some sort of proof. It seems to me that he is looking for specific validation and that brings me back to the point of the hair DNA.

    • Hello, Ramona. You have put a lot of thought into this. I know that Forrest has put a lot of thought into this also…because he said so. He said he thought of everything, and I take him at his word. That’s why my eye is fixed on New Mexico. 🙂

      http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-30414032

      I think a lot of these speculations about what will or should happen with the treasure chest will…obviously…be best resolved if Forrest is still alive (and kicking) when it’s found. Can you imagine that? That would be awesome. I’d be so happy for him. I’d love to watch that on the news.

      Then all those twits that impugned Forrest’s integrity…and said his Treasure was likely a hoax…can go pound sand.

    • Hello Ramona. Thank you for your thoughts. They’re quite interesting.

      First of all, I agree to leave Mr. Fenn’s hair alone. The gentleman will never show up at the Fennboree knowing there may be those having a watchful eye on his hair. 🙂

      I remember reading on the blog the purpose of the hair is for the purpose of DNA, particularly if the treasure is found in the 500-1000+ years like the Rosetta Stone. So the future will know of who hid the treasure chest, as well as, his sealed autobiography to tell his story.

      • Forgive my poor example, but think of how dinosaur bones have been handled through DNA. It’ll show age, which would confirm the date on his autobiography, if he dated it. It’ll also prove lineage, etc.

        Sorry, Mr. Fenn. I didn’t want to compare you to a dinosaur; just trying to prove a point. 🙂

        • Yes, he has stated that is why he included the hair clipping. For future identification. What would be the point of the hair clipping if the treasure chest had been found in 1 year or even now 5 years later?

          A lot of people think there are multiple meanings or layers to the poem. Could there not also be multiple reasons for the hair clipping? That’s what I would imagine trying to think of everything might entail.

          • Ramona, keep digging deep and thinking. It matters in this game of poker regardless of what others say. Perhaps: I can keep my secret w-hair, wier,
            w-air, w-error, w-ear, w-here, w-heir, ware, waer, maybe AV combination of several. Folks can laugh, but it takes bravery and imagination to put forth different types of ideas for public examination.

          • Hello Ramona. It is very possible the poem has multiple meanings, just as you may feel leaving the hair has multiple meanings. If it were easy, someone would have found the treasure by now. Surely, I hope no one laughs at your thoughts, mine or any other for bringing it to the public. That would be an unkind thing to do. Word play may certainly be part of the solution to consider. Perhaps there’s a possibility the treasure may be found sooner than expected, such as the words of Mr. Fenn. I believe most of the things he has said over the years seem to indicate he felt the poem wouldn’t be solved so soon. How many times have we heard or read of how long he felt it would be before someone deciphered the poem? I commend your thoughts, Ramona. I’ve always enjoyed what you’ve had to say and look forward to more. If I may ask, have you checked out the area you posted as your solution on your site many months ago? I’ve read it and was in awe. Some have said nay, while others felt you were very close.

          • No, I did not check the area I had posted about. I didn’t realize you had been around that long. It seems like I’ve only recently been seeing a lot of posts by you but either way I’m a fan because you always are so nice and encouraging to everyone with your words. Thanks.

          • Hello Ramona. I have been around since August 2014, but never posted. When I signed up and the information came to my email, I wasn’t sure what I was suppose to do next. Never posting before, I had no idea how to do it. It was most recent when I asked Dal, and with his most gracious instructions, I took a leap of faith and tried, hence my first post. Thank you for your kind words.

  82. Onuat, hasn’t Forrest stated here on Dal’s blog…[paraphrased] There are no notes to be found or safety deposit boxes to be searched.

    The poem reads, “just take the CHEST and go in peace” rather than ‘take the bracelet or jar’

    Of course, It’s possible you may find additional instructions in a jar, or a good treasure map that takes you the distance. I believe the poem could imply “to Wyoming it is that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek”, but after finding a chest first. Who knows?

    My opinoion only, and not worth much.

    • Lia, Sorry it took so long to respond. I don’t have any time while at work to follow the blog.
      Yes, I do remember seeing that about notes and safety deposit boxes. That is the reason why I think it might be in the Bio where title is given to the person who finds Indulgence. I don’t think anyone can get title with his word alone. There,s bound to be something written.
      As for the Safety deposit box….that was just wild imagination. 🙂

      • Onuat, Wouldn’t giving title in his book and his poem be enough to get title. Forrest after all is publicly saying he will give whom ever finds the chest – title to the gold. However, he doesn’t say all the contents in the chest.

  83. Here is a odd and end…..Page 133, in TOTC. I forgot. Is this a old map of New Mexico? Its a interesting page. Have not thought about it in years. I looked for info about it on this blog, could not find any. Anyone? Thanks so much.

    Lou Lee Bug

    • Lou Lee
      I recall that someone traced it back to a map of NM in a 1988 Comptons encylcipledia

  84. Pinyon in Wyoming & Montana.

    I remembered seeing a topo map with Pinyon somethingerother on it but could not re-locate it until today. I had searched because, although the “mapped extent” of Pinyon Pine does not extend that far north, the range of the Pinyon Jay, a symbiote, is mapped that far….and those maps appear less generalized (higher “resolution”)

    Well I found it. Pinyon Terrace is just west of Mammoth Hot Springs in YNP. https://www.sciencebase.gov/catalog/item/imap/521684c3e4b0b45d6ba62011
    (the label “Pinyon Terrace” does not appear at all zoom levels),
    and
    http://www.backpacker.com/trips/wyoming/yellowstone-national-park/yellowstone-national-park-terrace-mountain-loop-via-glen-creek/#bp=0/img1

    While I realize this will not “settle the issue” for all, it does for me. You can smell pinyon nuts from my target spot. So there. 😉

  85. Forrest recently gave the clue that “the TC is wet.” Just some thoughts on this. My brother is a jeweler and commented that turquoise cannot be wet for too long a time because the color value of the stone will greatly diminish ie; lighten considerably. Also, the wood lining that’s within the chest will mold due to lack of light and consequently deteriorate… Hence my thinking is that although the chest may be wet, only for short periods of time only. The turquoise would be safe if only contained in the glass jar as Forrest had mentioned. The inside of the chest can never be wet due to the wood lining either. So my belief is that the chest is not submerged in water as in a creek but rather in a spot where the chest were to get occasionally wet. If snow were on the chest, then yes the chest would be considered wet but on the outside only. In summation, I would think that the chest is neither submerged either from water or for the matter by dirt (not buried) due to prolonged dampness but rather “sheltered” by rocks as best as possible to protect it’s contents. And nor do I believe the TC is in a tree either due to acts of nature (rain, snow or fire/lightening.) One other thought, due to the fact that gold is highly conductible and would be a prime target of a lightening bolt, the chest would need to be shielded on ALL sides to protect it from that event as well. So ie; the chest is likely protected (hidden) quite well by rock IMO.

    • @Peter et al, I agree the TC isn’t submerged in water but keep in mind the turquoise stones had already been exposed for years and years, and there are a lot of woods that can be used that withstand moisture, just think about wine barrels and redwood hot tubs, southern cypress, teak boats etc….interesting about gold and lightning….not trying to pick a fight and for sure trying to be ‘tolerant’ of all thoughts and discussions on here, thanks! IMO -cq

      • Cholly, just passing on what my Brother told me. It might be a good idea on my part to research turquoise. Insofar as the wood is concerned, obviously can’t be sure what wood was used for that roman chest but don’t believe Forrest would expose it to water just the same. Just another thought, gold in water would be especially inviting for lightening too, don’t you think? The result could be 23 lb. solid bullion blob.

        • Gang,

          I am in general agreement that the chest is not immersed in water. I am also in general agreement about it not being wet or damp all the time. It may be wet or damp on occasion on the outside. I think the dry wood on the inside does a couple of things well. It absorbs moisture from the air inside the chest. It also acts as an insulator if a large jolt of electricity were to pass through it. Electricity appears to be fickle stuff, but it always takes the path of least resistance to ground. The cache nestled in the wood box inside the bronze chest is well protected for a long time against any of the “common fluctuations” in the immediate vicinity of its resting place. Lightening would simply pass along the outer edge of the box, leaving the contents unscathed – in my opinion. Now, a foot on the chest might get melted where it touches the ground and there is a higher amount of resisitance, but probably not, as a lightening bolt doesn’t sustain itself long enough to do that kind of damage.

    • I have often wondered if Forrest said “whet” instead of “wet”. He is a little tricky in my opinion. I may have missed where he put it down in a written communication, however. I believe his first statement about the chest being whet/wet was oral, so it may be open to interpretation. I was not following the blogs when this first came up, so I may be all wet in my comment.

      • I thought about wet & whet for a while Dick, but the context of the statement didn’t jive with whet. But we know Forrest does like to use homophones.
        Like right & write
        Maybe even loads & lodes.

  86. I would like to share a thought about the little girl from India situation…
    If English and a good map can only get her through the first two clues…then English and a good map can only get ANYONE through the first two clues. IMO this means clues 3-9 must be interpreted from the information given in the poem. IMO, Forrest has made it clear that a person Can solve the poem from home, before they leave to search. Therefore, Information provided in the first two clues will get you within striking distance…using a map or google earth…but you must figure out the rest of the poem using your BRAIN. This does not mean there are no more uses for a map…what it means is, a map alone will not bring you closer than you are after you figure out the first two clues, until you decipher the other 7…IMO

    • Mike you wrote: “Forrest has made it clear that a person Can solve the poem from home, before they leave to search.”

      I’m going to disagree with you Mike; I’m not aware of any statement where Fenn stipulated “where” the poem can be solved from. If you have one please post it.

      Perhaps, for example, one will proceed with confidence from looking in the canyon down. Perhaps that is the only place the poem can be solved from. Which is why all the deep thinking geniuses here haven’t found it.

      Just my opinion.

      • Goofy, Not all who sign in here consider themselves geniuses.

        My name is at the top of this list:

        simpleton-crow-eating-red neck-Texans 🙂
        1. Anna

      • Really Goofy.

        To me that would certainly dissuade a searcher from inviting someone from a long distance to join them on a search based upon a location that was derived by searching at home. Sure, the fun would be in the adventure on the ground, but think of the embarassment. Anyone who has ever been on a search knows that once you are on the ground, the whole landscape can change. I have only searched in one location where the ground features matched the clues in the poem to a T and even that was a fail. If you are correct and cannot build confidence at home, why even search?

        • Hello Windsurfer, I agree with you that confidence can be gained from home. Hasn’t Forrest said the path would be certain for the one who solves the poem? My theory is that the one with a ‘mostly correct’ solution may have to travel to the area to solve the remainder of the poem in situ.

          How are snow levels in your area this year for skiers? Hoping to fit a Beaver Creek trip in soon.

          • Hi Anna,

            This has been one of the best seasons ever in Colorado. I was up skiing at Keystone today. Starting to get Spring conditions. I plan to be at Beaver Creek and Vail the end of March for an extended stay skiing with my daughter. My wife no longer skiis much due to her bad knees so she and my daughter will do some snowmobiling while I head off to Vail to ski with the LV and the other champs.

            You will have a great experience at Beaver Creek. Chocolate cookies on the mountain for all the guests…can’t go wrong with that!

        • Wind you certainly could be correct. It’s just my opinion.

          IMO, Fenn basically had two goals creating the chase. He didn’t want to be like his father, no one knows who he was, and to get people out into the wilderness.

          He has accomplished both; millions, maybe tens of millions, of people know about Fenn; and he has got folks out into the wilderness that otherwise would never have gone.

          But it would explain how so many people have solved the first two clues then gone past the others. They solved the first two from home and went to the location only to go right past the other clues because of a predetermined solution they figured out from home. They aren’t seeing what’s right in front of them.

          So it’s my opinion the poem can only be solved from where the first two clues are.

      • Ff said, “I warned the path to the treasure would be unsure for those that had no knowledge of its location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.”
        This may not be verbatim…but it is close enough to say to me, solve it…then go look! IMO

        • From Jenny 6 Questions
          “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

          Hearing it again it seems like an empty statement regarding the search. If you know the location the path would be sure. if by location it is meant the TC location of course it would be sure.
          If by location it is meant a starting point I guess it means get out there and search for whatever is left to answer the clues.

    • I do not believe anywhere in the question about the LGFI did it say she had a “good” map, nor did the question say she had GE – she had a “map of the US Rocky Mountains”. Forrest was answering the exact question as asked – someone who only has the poem and a map of the Rocky Mountains cannot get closer than the first 2 clues. To me that means you need a “good map”, ( and a “good” map is one with more detail than a map of the Rockies like a topo map or GE), the poem, and TTOTC. They will get you closer so that you can go in confidence. I just cannot see going out searching thinking you know the 1st 2 clues and wandering around trying to figure out all the other 7. You’ll probably have a nice vacation but maybe not find the treasure chest. Just MHO. 🙂

      • Correct CJ, the poem and a map can solve the first two clues. Maybe a “good” map will get you more clues, maybe a colloquial expression buried deep within the archives of some small town newspaper will tell us what home of Brown is, maybe the poem is an encrypted mathematical expression of the coordinates that a “key” word is needed to unlock, and maybe the deep thinkers are spinning their wheels and the very few of them that actually go look will only have a nice vacation because they walked right past the real clues obsessed with their predetermined solution.

        And maybe you have to be on location to figure out the clues to proceed with confidence. Maybe the deep thinkers that do go search should stop and take a good look around after the first two clues. Who knows what they might see….. Just my opinion.

        • I don’t know Goofy, maybe I’m just one of those naïve people who believe what Forrest has said in the past about how to solve the clues by using a “good” map, TTOTC and the poem and how you need to solve the clues in the poem so you can go in confidence. But since none of us have found it whether we are trying to solve all or most of the clues using his suggested resources or going to some spot after thinking we have the 1st 2 clues and looking around to see what might fit clue 3, I guess it really doesn’t matter what method we’ve used – we’ve all been wrong so far!

  87. I am reminded; “only the rocks live forever.”

    Although not as significant; can’t ‘mist’ also create moisture?

  88. Ok, time to start SUBSCRIBING again! I’ve finally caught up with my e-mails. Spring is near.

  89. In that video somewhere above here, ff said figure out that first clue, then the others get easier…. So, then several found the first two and went right past the others, because they did not understand the significance of where they were… we all remember he said something like that right? So, those people were just telling ff about going somewhere in general, not somewhere THEIR clue solve lead them, just some tourist spot.. IMHO. Now the other clue places may not be tourist spots, but
    the first two are…imho

    • HaHa, I just realized, that Could have been ME. I told ff about swimming in the hot spring, and stopping at a waterfall….. nothing past that, how many more of us might have done or been at those same places…. haha lol

  90. Wind, thanks for the local ski & snow report*.*.My husband and I are looking forward to a few days skiing with our son and daughter-in-law. Can’t wait to see the snowy mountain peaks. skiing is akin to the freedom of flight – when the conditions are right. Your family is fortunate to live there.

  91. Slurbs,

    o share a photo: Right click to highlight the ‘location site info’ that appears on the top of the page,and then enter… COPY

    Go to your Site and then to the location you wish to post. (after the curser blinks, right click on… PASTE)

    If you’ve done it right, all of the data from the the photo page should appear

    If you want to leave a comment; just scroll down a bit and right click as usual to enter your message.

    When you click on POST COMMENT; your post should appear as usual, ( only the data with the photo you want to share will appear in color.)

    Click on that.

    Wallah! (Hopefully!)

    Hope this can be of some help.

  92. IMO, it would be extremely unlikely that a person could actually solve the first two clues and not be absolutely convinced they were in the right place. At least for me, IMO, the first to clues are the only clues a person can be absolutely sure of…they appear on a good map/google earth. The other 7 are open to interpretation. You have to have the key word and the word that is key figured out in order to unlock the other 7 clues. IMO, even when you figure the rest out, there will still be a couple of unanswered questions that will make it necessary to put botg in order to actually locate the trove. Things not addressed in the poem, IMO, are:

    Is it buried or not? Is it “hidden” under/in/on something? Etc…
    If I tell you exactly where I placed a phone book, for example, up the Rio Grande forty two miles from White rock, NM, on the left hand side of the River, in a side canyon by a large boulder, could you go directly to the phone book? No…you would still have to “find” it, even though you know exactly where to look. All is IMO

  93. Hi All – I wanted to begin a new topic of conversation: GPS Coordinates. Mr. Fenn has stated that if a person had the correct GPS coordinates they could find the chest. So I decided to test this statement using Google Earth and a Free GPS app on my phone. I logged in the coordinates for the end of my driveway using each device and calculated the difference in the two readings.

    Then I went out to Google Earth and using the line feature, logged the coordinates of two points about 5,000 feet apart and calculated the difference. Doing this I determined that each coordinate to the 6th decimal place (1 millionth of a degree – the limit of accuracy on Google Earth) spans approximately 1.78 feet.

    Finally, I applied that calculation to the difference in the GE and Free GPS coordinates above. The results: the two differed by approximately 48 feet north-south and 11 feet east-west, for a total difference of 49 feet.

    Unless there is someone in this community that has a better understanding of GPS and the use of devices, this calls Mr. Fenn’s statement into serious jeopardy. 49 feet away does not get the job done when we’re talking about a small box hidden so as not to be easily discovered.

    Does anyone have any insight into this apparent problem? Voxpops – I’d love to hear from you since it sounds like your search is reliant upon accurate GPS coordinates.

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