Where Warm Waters Halt…Part Three


This page is now closed to new comments You can still read the previous comments but to add to the discussion please go to the latest WWWH page.

This is for a discussion about Where Warm Waters Halt. We’ve all got ideas that didn’t work out or we are willing to share…I think we can give folks just starting out some ideas for the kinds of places that might just be the place Where Warm Waters Halt…or not!

Let the discussion begin…


691 thoughts on “Where Warm Waters Halt…Part Three

    • Yes you are. 🙂
      Thanks Dal for starting a new thread – it was taking a long time to load all those responses.

    • Is that all you are going to bring to the table? Does anyone actually discuss anything on this thread?

      • Hello Jeff. Where Warm Water Halts possibilities:

        Confluence of Madison, Gibbon and Firehole Rivers

        Old Faithful

        Continental Divide

        Lava flows


        This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

          • Pdenver, obviously Jeff hasn’t been on Dal’s blog for very long or he would have realized we have been discussing this to death for years and just about every possible kind of WWWH has been mentioned previously. While I can think of a few that you have not mentioned, I think it’s good for everyone to do a little homework for themselves and read some of the past threads in the area they are having problems with. (I know, I know, I ended the sentence with a preposition) 🙂

          • Hello CJinCA. I agree with you. There’s some ideas of WWWH that I haven’t shared, because they’re important to my solve. Each of us have a lot of studying to figure out what the poem means.

            By the way, I’ve been guilty of ending sentences with prepositions, too. 🙂

          • CJ,

            Don’t ya love newbies…

            Pdnever, I like your short list. Might I add a couple more? for jeff to get the sense of a few years or 5.5 years of conversations about WWWH only.

            Hot spring, fishing waters temperatures, a soul catching alien egg [ I still love that one.. sorry my bad ] Oh right an outhouse. [ there’s some imagination for ya Jeff ] The Ice age, a Glacier, glacier national park, the Arctic circle, the Atlantic ocean current,
            a dam [ well not so much anymore ]. YNP. and just about every body of water in the continental USA, just to name a few more.
            Then there’s. WWH for birth, or death. Constellations, some even suggested no water involved at all… so before Goofy nukes me for taking up to much gigs, I’ll stop there…

            What do you have to bring to the Table Jeff?

          • onuat,

            Someone has a solution theory that revolves around the World Wide Web.
            many many theories have been talked about… so how is it we don’t dwell on WWWH enough? is it’s the first clue.

            Could it be more than one clue… meaning we see lines as a clue, maybe two stanzas hold many clues is the answer to the first part.

            Lets try stanza 2, we have been told it could hold has 3- 4 clues, are they all individual answers / places / meanings or all clues that could lead to a place, explain what is need to be known of the place, and/or what to find at that place to understand the next clue[s].

            The WWWH had been talked to death as a single answer of a clue, hunche and guess of all kinds of places involving fish to the great eruption… “what IF” more than one clue is need for the full answers? Not many want to think about that “What if”

          • Seeker,
            Lol.. I get lost most of the time in all your ramblings but let me see if I can answer your question without giving away too much of my solution.
            You said ” is stanza 2 just 1 clue or 3-4 clues.” In my honest opinion, there are only 2 clues in this,here stanza.

            ” Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down,not far but too far to walk.”
            ” Put in below the home of Brown.”
            If you put-in,you have to take-out somewhere. 🙂

            My opinion is to find a suitable WWH and move on from there,then backtrack to confirm that you might be in the right place. Tarry scant !
            Don’t spend too much time in one place or it will drive you nuts.

          • onuat,

            You’re not the only one that gets lost in my post. I think most of the time folks don’t get some of my ideas or thought because they only have a one mind set way of looking at the poem…

            Maybe that is why most don’t like the idea WWWH might not be the first clue… It doesn’t work in their stomping mode. There’s a lot of what if floating around, yet they seem to be only changing names of WWH, a new place to try out their new boots. For me that that’s not a what if… it’s the same old same old, no new perspective.

            I mean wouldn’t it just make your hair stand on end if all the clues where one spot… no need to travel 10 miles or 92 miles. No reason to get your feet wet, traverse a water way, or hike a canyon down and back up again… Fenn said he wanted people out and exploring nature… he is pleased the poem as done its job.

          • I guess you did…I have in the past and did post the night before Dal restarted the thread my thoughts on WWWH. I am glad to see that my question provoked some sort of information.
            Instead of “yea I’m first to post…”, or subscribe….

          • Jeff – Some posters above have supposed that perhaps you’re new to this blog, which would explain why you don’t understand the reason a new post usually starts out with folks claiming to be “first!” “2nd!!” and so on….

            They do that so they can automatically be kept updated by checking the “notify” boxes in the reply window. Hope this helps. Welcome to this bag of mixed nuts (I’m a peanut, myself).

        • I think WWWH is either the old faithful or where Madison and Gibson meet. Both of my solutions take me to my HOB.

      • How is this one Jeff ? Google Ha-Ha and you should find Wikipedia article . How is that for where warm waters halt ? Ha-Ha !

  1. could WWWH actually mean ‘Where People/Man/Woman Halt’ … ?

    The human body is something like 60 percent water…

    and from what google has told me, that water is somewhat warm…

    Any thoughts?

    • Body heat produce,s warm salty water, but you don’t need google to tell you that.
      Are you hinting on people taking emergency stops on long road trips? Could be a possibility . 🙂

  2. Call me simple, call me crazy, but I am of the firm belief that if you can nail the correct WWWH, you are right where you need to be to see everything align and fall into place – if you are prepared/prescient enough. I don’t believe the solve will be literal and linear, but played out on several levels and circular. Just my whacked opinion.

    Now, if I could just find the right WWWH.

    • “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta.” f

        • Sundance Kid lived near Yellowstone and the Beartooth mountains, his alias was H.A. Brown. From there all my clues fell into place, gonna check my spot in May or as soon as the snow melts.

  3. It seems most logical to me that WWWH would be a place easily visible on a map; a place that would likley be a geological feature of some sort that would not change much over many years. I suspect that WWWH is the rain shadow of the Rocky Mountains. This is where the rains (warm waters) dont normally make it over the high peaks. Most of us are familiar with the picture from the cover of “Too Far to Walk”, which shows the shadow of a man. If Im not mistaken, there is another shadowed picture in “Thrill of the Chase”. I half suspect that there is also a spring or other feature that periodically spurts water (geyser, etc). One definition of halt is to stand at attention. So possibly WWWH has a double meaning.

    So IF I am right, then the picture with the shadow is a hint. I suspect it also points to something else that is indicated by a shadow.

      • What so hard to figure out that the warm body decreases at death? The poem was written with the original intent of “taking it with him” … why can’t canyon down, which means vertical sides and low center, be the dug grave? could not far but too far too walk be, one foot on the grave. And could Home of Brown me Mother Earth.

        We have been told, imagination is better than knowledge. Then again, maybe WWWH is a river that meets another… I mean how many can there be? right?

  4. Omega lake on Sky Pilot mountain below Sundance mountain, Sundance kid alias was H.A. Brown, good luck finding the blaze before snow melt MUAHAHAHAHAHA!

  5. I think where warm waters halt is near Ojo Caliente on the Firehole River. I am not sure if Forrest said there are any hints in TFTW, but I think Chapter 5 River Bathing Is Best, holds a hint to where to begin.
    “I could change the water temperature around my body just by moving a foot or so. Sometimes I stayed in that place for two hours or more (must have been warm) and when I decided it was time to leave I’d back-up a couple of feet downstream where the water was cold. That gave me instant incentive to climb out and sun-dry in the tall grass that populated the river bank.”
    There’s a canyon around here somewhere?
    All my opinion when it arrives.

  6. WWWH:
    Elevation where the river turns from warm to cold? about a mile in elevation
    Aqua Caliente springs and creek? there are three
    1. In Yellowstone National Park near the Firehole (most popular)
    2. East of Abiquiu, NM.
    3. Near Pilar, NM (my favorite)

  7. But, remember,… TLGFI (India girl) can get the first two clues right with only the poem and a map of the RM’s, big help huh..

    • I personally believe that only the first two can be solved by poem and map. The rest have to come from knowledge of the area, either once you get there, or by thorough research.

  8. Where do warm waters halt? Depends…maybe Kimberly Clark will sponsor this thread) 😉

  9. Makes one wonder if WWWH can be seen on the map from TFTW, since it covers the entire search area I would say the odds are good.

    • It’s not in that level to note very much. For example, NM has 8 named places. Like Taos, Wheeler mtn, a couple of cities, it doesn’t even name the Rio Grande.

  10. Warm i believe is either above skin temp or somthing that has icreased in temp, maybe snow melt and run off, also relate to water high..?

  11. I believe i have every matching clue.. But im sure so does everyone else..Lol. Js discribes a place ive been to with every clue matching.. Ive spent alot of time trying to debunk my location but cant.. Whats funny is my first clue related to the location wasnt even in the poem but the book it self.. Not to be rude but some of peoples ideas are very extreme and bogus.. I truely believe children have an advantage of stumblin across it first seems most us adults loose oursence of true adventure at an eary age._. Rant over, happy hunting yall and props to Fenn for the thrill of the chase

      • Where warm waters halt_1 take in canyon down_2 not far but to far to walk_3 put in below HOME of Brown_4 no place for the meek_5 no paddle up Creek_6 just heavy loads and water high_7 find the blaze_8 look down_9

  12. The only clue that I will share with everyone is where waters halt. Where a stream runs into a lake/ a lake empties into a river/ a smaller river runs into a larger river, ETC, etc, etc. The Mississippi ends where it enters the Gulf of Mexico. As for the “warm waters” part you’ll have to work on that without me. Sorry.

    • Good idea, but i think your way wrong.. The place i have in mind would deff be a one of a kind here in the states..! And from all the youtube channels and blogs ive read im very surprised that no one has came to the same conclusion as i have.. Icould deff see Forest and his family stopping here along their annual/seasonal trip from texas to yellowstone..Lol. A polaroid pic in his memoir is what triggered a memory of a place ive been.. Which i believe to be the first clue and the boxes location.. And after alot of research and others inputs my location seemed to be more and more plausable. The rest of the clues didnt fall into place until later (a years time) while trying to debunk the thought of myself being in the same beautiful place a treasure has been PUT, ive been asking myelf well how would this or that fall into place, and one by one every single clue 1-9 feel into place. Im excited and even a lil scared/nerv that im right.. Even the clues outside the poem match, like elevation

      • I did not mean that the Mississippi is a search area. Just an example of river halt. The first time I ran across the “Thrill of the chase” was by accident last June. The first time I read the poem,and saw the picture of the map, everything fell into place for me. I felt I knew within a few hundred feet where the treasure was. I went on my first hunt in July which was a mistake. The weather was ALL wrong. I will plan better for my up-coming hunt. Good luck to you Shawn.

      • It’s not a one in a kind spot. Forrest said their are many wwwh’s in the RM’s

      • And the race is on! With as many ” I have the perfect solution ” posts I am on the edge of my seat. Look out Ramona someone is hot on the trail.

  13. A blaze i believe is the last visually clue that must withstand time.. Somethin along the lines of streaks left from glaciers in the canyon that you take down, relate to a hint of riches that are old..!? The nine clues i believe are back to back but not necc in the right order.. Heavy loads could be boulders or relate to the treasure just like your effort will be worth the cold, as in brass and gold tend to stay cold.. Hope my ideas are helpful.. Again happy hunting!! Ill be makin my way back west real soon, look out yall 😉

  14. Dear Forrest,
    You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:
    a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
    b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
    Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve
    No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

    This Q&A always had me asking… Is WWWH the first clue? ” do you think that we can confidently determine the starting point of your trail?”

    Hmm, we have been told a number of time in many ways we need the first clue…
    The first clue is important… without the first clue might as well stay home… keep telling us to dwell more on the first clue… need to know where to start… folks indicate the first two clues, but didn’t understand the significance of where they were… there are many wwwh in the RM’s and nearly all of them are N. of SF…

    “No, if all you have…” is WWWH and mountains N. of SF “…you can not proceed with confidence.”

    Wait! what?! I thought if you had the first clue, you were golden.

    Two things come to mind here; WWWH is not the first clue.. or.. we don’t know something about wwwh that is critical to know, apparently even if you know where it is.

    • Edit; yes, you need to finish all the poem, however the question was “Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail?”

      ok have at it… is that answer talking about the starting place or the entire solve?

    • We’ve talked about this before. As I recall we were both somewhere in the vicinity of a whole poem solution is a good route to go. So, if we’re considering the whole poem, might that be the whole recipe?

      More specifically, I argued that the nine clues are the nine sentences in the poem. If that is true, the first clue would be the first sentence. If Forrest considers confidence as having a full recipe solution, he might consider skipping over the first sentence as skipping a step.

      • Hey Jeremy,
        Yep we talked about the first two clues and why folks went pass the other seven clues… we talked about the significance of the first clue[s] etc.
        The question is about ” determining the starting point” having “confidence” with the starting point.

        Now, while I do see wiggle room here, is that all there is too it?
        The answer appears to be about the poem in all, while the question was about the string point…
        And while I agree there is a flaw in the whole presentation of the question… the question was either answered or the whole presentation was…

        I can see it both ways; I can see it as your receipt is wrong from the start, and I can see it as you need all the poem. My thought is to the question about the start… that is a very direct question. So do you think the answer tiptoed around the actual question? or all the presentation was considered? the question seems very straight forwards as to the starting point.

        • That answer is telling me that even if that is the first clue and the starting point I will not find the chest by following the poem like directions (wwwh -canyon down-242walk-below hoB.)
          What do you think?

          • Hello, Oz10. It’s kinda hard to explain. Forrest has said to start at the beginning and not to mess with his poem.


            But at the same time Forrest likes to quote T.S. Eliot…

            For last year’s words belong to last year’s language
            And next year’s words await another voice.
            And to make an end is to make a beginning.
            ~T.S. Eliot, “Little Gidding”

            Does the truth lie in either? Or both? Or neither?

            I say both.

            …and neither.

          • JC, I agree with you and I am trying to keep in check all my rules. Seeker was trying to make sense of that answer from f.
            Q: if I have wwwh and north of Santa Fe do we confidently determine the starting point?
            A: No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?
            I also tried to make sense of that because most people do believe that wwwh must be the first clue and from there follow the canyon to the home of Brown and so on. But if f says that we don’t have the “cake” or the complete starting point, that tells me that it must be a combination of clues that will describe a location to start from. (starting at the beginning and without messing with the poem)
            T.S. Eliot quote: Yes, I read that a few weeks ago and I almost threw the whole search in the garbage, lol… but instead I decided to stop taking ibuprofen and find something a little stronger if you know what I mean…

            (And to make an end is to make a beginning)
            If I take this literally then the clues may be in order but backwards. If the clues are for example in order B,C,D we will right away assume that we are on point A and the chest is at point E, but it may well be that the chest is at point A and we are on point E. So we have to figure out B,C and D and then move backwards from E to A.
            I have to take a nap now…

        • @Seeker.

          So I’ve let myself become pretty convinced that the nine clues are the nine sentences and that what you’re shooting for is a whole poem / whole solution, but I realize how that might sound to folks who may be looking through the poem for what bits we are supposed to be focused on, and what bits we’re supposed to start with.

          If you’re looking for where to start, and start to you means “where do I start my trip?” and someone comes along and says start with the first sentence, it may sound weird. You’ve got a “there” and a “where” in the first sentence, but as a whole sentence it seems kind of difficult to translate it to a place on a map because there’s not enough info there to go on.

          But I think what I’m really talking about in a whole poem / whole solution approach is that maybe there’s an important concept you’re supposed to get from the first sentence. Maybe you’re supposed to start walking, flying, driving or what have you somewhere else in the poem, but if you miss that concept from the first sentence you’re not starting where you really should.

          Does that make sense?

          • P.S. For those who want to keep it simple, now is the time to turn your head and hit delete. Sorry, I’m a complicated bit of goods;-)

            Jeremy, and anyone else…
            I always enjoy reading others paths of logic and appreciate the intelligence found on the blogs. I’m looking for help. [This is ALL MY OPINION]. Because I’m at a difficult impasse in my solution(s) please allow me to throw a discussion monkey wrench into the 9 clues wheel cog. What if the poem requires one to solve to 4 locations to bake the cake?

            Following Jeremy & many other’s line of reasoning: 9 sentences = 9 clues (+ my supposition: the poem solves to 4 Fenn locations) equating to 9 sentences solved X4 yielding 36 clues to be solved correctly to bake the cake. This all lines up nicely with Forrest the surveyor – 36 section delineations per township.

            Discussion #1: Is my idea plausible? IMO we’re not looking at one “Fubix cube” but 4 of them…Fubix, Slubix, Pulix & Krubix…to which I say YIKES!! I’m not implying it’s more difficult than believed to throw anyone off. I fell out of bed and hit the floor hard when I realized the poem “may” imply 4 solvutions. I won’t disclose any of my information. Folks need to work the poem and come to their own conclusions. I’m just asking for assistance ‘reasoning through’ my own suppositions.

            Discussion #2: “IF” the title, trove, chest, or treasure (4) are hidden on private lands set up under corporate names registered through multiple attorney’s and/or trustees, would that make recovery illegal and impossible due to trespassing? IMO, yes. It appears like a catch 22. Without permission from the owner, who you cannot gain permission from, you can’t recover on said property. (Trustees cannot disclose info, and Forrest has said he won’t confirm information). How would one confirm that Forrest Fenn is behind the trustee, and behind the articles of incorporation. State laws in New Mexico, Wyoming, and Montana (don’t know about CO) are set up to absolutely protect identity. Trustees have similar legal obligations for non-disclosure.

            With Forrest still alive (Thank Goodness…may God grant he and Peggy many more good years) If one sent the correct solution asking for his express permission, would Forrest confirm it and grant permission??

            Has this been asked?

          • @lia020:

            I’m sorry, the only one I can help on is the 9 clues = 9 sentences.

            The way that works is that Forrest was asked a question:

            “Forrest, Did you intend for there to be 9 clues, or did it work out to be just right with 9?”

            His answer was:

            “I didn’t count the clues until the poem had been finalized. Although I changed it a few times over the months I think the number stayed about the same.”

            Unlike many of his responses, this one was pretty straightforward.

            If we accept this as a true statement, I’m in a good position. All I have to do is point to the nine sentences from the poem and say, “There they are.”

            Those who are looking for nine clues as parts of sentences (phrases or lines, or words, picking and choosing) are in a more awkward position. They have to find some way of explaining how, after the poem had been finalized, did nine clues AND nine sentences show up, if the count of nine was only determined after the finalization.

            Do you see the problem?

            I’m good. I don’t have to invoke any extra things to explain my position. The others, they have to explain how nine showed up twice, when nine wasn’t a count until the poem was final. I would call this a Problem of Retrocausality, but let’s just say they would need to build a time machine to account for a double nine when no nine existed until after the poem was done.

            In my opinion, anyone can work this out. Just think on it a bit.

            From that, you can form other conclusions such as Forrest would like a whole poem solution.

    • Whoa Seeker – you crossed too many wires there, I need to go flip the circuit breaker switch back on. 🙂

      If all you have is the poem and a map of the Rocky Mountains, you can figure out the first two clues.

      If all you have to go on is BIWWWH and somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe, then you can’t confidently bake a cake.

      If I tell you to meet me at WWWH somewhere in the mountain north of Santa Fe, then you are risky in discounting words and oversimplify the clues.

      So what do you think f might be alluding to in all this?

      • Jcm,
        let take a step backwards… this Q&A is rather old compared to the comment you presented about a map. and while we all hope that the more information we get will help clarify things for us. yet with this question, it was of the starting point.

        The question is defined. it talks about the starting point. Like I said, I see wiggle room to the presentation that lead to the question… but the concern here is, is wwwh or even the RM’s the first clue[s]

        While I agree that the whole if greater then all it’s part… was the questioned answer as a whole or actually the parts in question. this may not seem important to most, as most are dead on with WWH being clue one… and if not.. holy Toledo… that would kill almost all the solves.

        I guess I could be wrong… I mean we all know the world is flat, right?

        • Of course the world is flat, is anyone crazy enough to think it isn’t?

          I almost posted that same quote earlier today to try and stir some interesting conversation. You went in a much different direction than what I would have.

          Having read enough of f’s responses to questions, each more times than I would care to admit, I find him to consistently provide specific answers to the question asked, often laced with his humor.

          Take this simple one…

          Is the Blaze one single object? ~ Scout Around
          In a word – Yes

          Many people immediately focused and tried to figure out what he meant by “in a word” thinking it had to be some kind of hint; they missed f’s humor as related to the questions “one single”. I suspect some will still not see or get it.

          f likes to play off the words in a question in his answers and his answers are typically tailored to answer the specific question asked, or he swerves with his answer and doesn’t answer it at all.

          I was going through my list of quotes and I find it interesting how much f discusses and makes reference to WWWH as compared to anything else in the poem. I have enough quotes and statements from f to thoroughly convince me that BIWWWH is the first clue.

          Dal has mentioned in the past that early on in this game, f had made comments at events and to people that BIWWWH was the first clue. I think as people started questioning if BIWWWH actually was the first clue or not, f realized that if he went silent on it and got out of the way of how people were thinking, that it would serve to help extend the finding time of the chest. People overthinking and coming up with esoteric ideas about what the clues are has been a boon for people not finding the chest. Though f has stepped in several times trying to reel people back into the ballpark and at least trying to get them playing on the correct field – some seem to refuse to do so.

          Switching gears. The two questions and responses about WWWH and in the mountains north of Santa Fe – both were within about 6 weeks of each other on Jenny’s site, yet f’s responses were diametrically different. The one had “Begin it where warm waters halt”, the other just “where warm waters halt”. Take note of f’s answer when “Begin it” was not included. I have never seen anyone consider it in their comments and the implications that it has. Not that it tells you what WWWH is, just more about what one needs to consider in what a clue is and how that relates to the clue’s meaning which needs to be figured out.

          • Hello JCM,

            You wrote-> “I have enough quotes and statements from f to thoroughly convince me that BIWWWH is the first clue”…..that is your opinion, based upon your interpretation of available information. That’s cool.


            You wrote-> “Dal has mentioned in the past that early on in this game, f had made comments at events and to people that BIWWWH was the first clue.”…..I agree with pdenver: Can you provide links/reference to where Dal has said that Fenn unequivocally stated that “BIWWWH” is the first clue??

            🙂 If you can’t honor the request….I’m gonna call “foul”!!!! 🙂

          • Hello JCM. Thank you for the link. I’ll keep rereading that section. Why is it that I read it as, “You need to start at the beginning. (first thought) You need to figure out where warm waters halt. (second thought).” ? I would love to know if there are others who feel it may be read this way.

          • Clayton-
            Forrest said :
            You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.

            He said this because many searchers were skipping directly to home of Brown. That is the point at which many folks were starting. ..because (I suppose) it is easier. He was trying to get them to think about the first clues rather than the middle…

            Forrest said:
            You’ll never find it that way. You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.

            And then I believe he went on to say that the clues are consecutive and we need to figure them out in the order they are, in the poem…


            While this is second had information, I do take it as accurate, with a slight questionable reading of it. The problem is… imo… not what was said but how it was said. we don’t have the luxury of being there ourselves. So if I may…

            Could the recalling of ; “You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.” be two separate things said at the same time. This is not uncommon of fenn in most of our thoughts of other comments.

            You need to know where to start…
            You need to “figure” out http://WWW...

            Sounds simple enough, but are they one in the same. There are many WWW in the RM’s, and nearly all of them are N. of SF.

            Is the starting point different from WWH. think of it this way… to find WWWH you must be someplace to “see” WWH… a much higher distant point? a place that will lead you directly too the correct WWH? The first clue is the clue that somehow takes the guessing out of all those WWH possibilities?

            Without the first clue you have notta… Is this the eliminating factor to throwing darts, and the what IF factor we should ask? another “what If” can be thought about the first clue as well… what is the significance [to figure out] of this place that we need to dwell on?
            Folks have arrived there and didn’t know…

            Ok ~ go ahead, tell me I’m over complicating the straightforwards part[s]

          • IMO…the first stanza is the introduction. It tells you (imo) he went into the rocky mountains with his treasure alone. Also saying (imo) He will keep his secret and provide hints to the location.
            IMO…WWWH is the first clue.

          • what did he mean, go with your gut, remember, Forrest said, something like,

            it doesn’t matter what words I use, as long as you understand what it mean.

          • Signholder,

            Been there done that, and so have many other searchers [ intro ]

            Question; If WWh is the first clue… how the heck do we decide which one is correct from the “many WWW N. of SF”? Even if we use the book, there are dozens of possibilities to try… and that is only considering the lakes, rivers, creek streams, fountains, hot springs, national parks, etc. without a thought to metaphors, idioms, acronyms possibilities. Does the “Hint” of riches new and old, not come into play at all?

          • pdenver – not that there is a lot of context to go on, but I look at the line “You will never find it that way.”

            Dal said people were skipping and looking for the home of Brown (seems that it is still going on today – so many looking for Brown this and Brown that and then seeing if there is a WWWH nearby) and f’s intent was to say stop trying to figure out the middle clues FIRST, YOU CAN”T FIND IT THAT WAY, you need to figure out the first clue FIRST, you need to start at the beginning clue (first clue) which is WWWH if you want to find the chest.

            Then people come along complicating it and think hey, f says to start at the beginning and the beginning is the start of the poem, not WWWH.

            That is my own interpretation of f’s intent, and I am sure many will disagree with me. But I think f’s statements lend credibility to this line of thinking…

            I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues. To me that’s just expensive folly. f

            What surprises me is that so many ignore the first clue in the poem. Without it all the searcher has is the memory of a nice vacation. Although many have tried, I doubt that anyone will find the blaze before they have figured out the first clue. f

            And I could list a few more quotes that emphasizes this point.

          • Mustang,
            He stated the words in the poem seem simple, but he worked on that poem… if you like, I’ll find the exact quote… but we have re-posted it a few times.

            He also stated, if i recall correctly, every word was deliberate, and at another time said, not all he words will help… find the chest… but would be unwise to discount them.
            Again, I can find these if ya like… but they have been posted many time.

            I think I have a pretty good memory, even though I’m working on my last braincell, But i don’t recall…

            “it doesn’t matter what words I use, as long as you understand what it mean.”

            Not saying its not factual… I may have missed a video or interview here and there… but I do like the thought of synonyms usage to understand what it means.

          • @ Seeker – Your question: Question; If WWh is the first clue… how the heck do we decide which one is correct from the “many WWW N. of SF”?
            I should have told you…….It the one that allows you to apply the next clue. 🙂

          • JCM, while I have seen those comments and more. None say WWWH is the first clue… sorry, not one. the only time I have ever seem even a subtle suspicion is Dal’s recalling of a conversation. I will say Dal takes pain staking time to be as accurate as he can, but again, that is still second hand recalling, and we don’t know if it was two comments in the same breathe [ my explanation within the posting ] Fenn has always commented on the “first clue”…never actually say what that clues is. We have only assumed what we like it to be.

            How can we be “ignoring” “don’t dwell” “need the first clue” etc etc. when all that has ever been talked about is “Begin” meaning WWWH ~ as the first clue.

            If we are to know where the WWWH, how do we find it out of all those many places N.of SF… without something [ actual first clue?] that tells, shows, explains or put us at the correct one for the searcher to begin… our quest.

            Heck, some like New and Old for NM… that would be the first clue if correct, right? Yet even then you still have a lots of choices of river, lakes, streams, creeks, water fall, ho springs etc, and that is just involving water.

            IS this poem nothing more than a good hunch as too WWWH or is the more logical thought, the first clue takes, shows, explain or somehow puts you at the correct WWH for the searcher to begin… personally I like to have that narrowed down to the one place… or maybe Dal can invite me over for a game of darts and a beer… I’ll being the beverages.

          • Signholder,

            That’s fantastic… that narrows it down to only waters with a canyon…

            I’ll stop here, as this conversation is bouncing all over on a single reply balloon… I don’t wan loco having to climb another post because of me… lol.

            Point is… where is the What if factor, when thinking about the first clue?

          • Seeker,
            that comment, about doesn’t matter witch word, needs to be in context, it wasn’t about the poem. It was more about story telling and on the fly comments to questions. I will find it one day.

        • Seeker – I love how you come at this from all angles! That is what makes your comments and thoughts so interesting in our discussions here.

          You said:

          “How can we be “ignoring” “don’t dwell” “need the first clue” etc etc. when all that has ever been talked about is “Begin” meaning WWWH ~ as the first clue.”

          If you look at just those individual lines in f’s comments, absolutely, how can we (all of us) be “ignoring” and “not dwelling” when people are focusing on WWWH?

          For me, this goes back to what I always look for in these questions and answers – context and intent. My approach with f’s comments is to understand them in isolation and only as the question is asked; what is f’s purpose, intent, or the context of what he has said. Once I have that determined, then I can tie other statements together and form a bigger picture of what f is saying. Picking out a single line here and there from various statements and then lumping them together is a sure-fire way to end up with a convoluted picture that makes no sense and baffles the mind. Look at these statements…


          “What surprises me is that so many ignore the first clue in the poem. Without it all the searcher has is the memory of a nice vacation. Although many have tried, I doubt that anyone will find the blaze before they have figured out the first clue.”

          Look at the main points: many ignore the first clue… Although many have tried… I doubt… anyone will find the blaze before… the first clue.

          f is saying people are focusing on the other clues and not so much the first clue. He doesn’t say ALL searchers, just many – and certainly not YOU 🙂 – and f would know what people are doing and thinking because they email him and it is obvious in their explanations.


          “I think that the problem that searchers make is that they don’t dwell long enough on the first clue. If you can’t find the first clue, you don’t have anything.”

          Main point: don’t dwell long enough on the first clue.

          So what are they dwelling on? Probably the later clues – or maybe the best bars to hit while on their vacation. Maybe THAT is your problem Seeker, stop looking for the best places to eat and get drunk at! 🙂


          You are absolutely right, we have no first hand statement where f is saying with his mouth or where he has personally written that WWWH is the first clue. We only have second hand statements at best that WWWH is the first clue. But should we only accept first hand statements from f and ignore everything else, and will doing so cost us anything in finding the chest?

          Perspective: Did Dal post that statement and attribute it to f with the intent to deceive people? (I better look out, I might get nuked just for thinking that) Or do we trust that Dal actually heard f say that, that Dal thinks it is important for us to know, and thus accept it into our pool of information expecting that it will help us move down the correct path.

          Thanks, Seeker, for more great discussion.

          • “What surprises me is that so many ignore the first clue in the poem. Without it all the searcher has is the memory of a nice vacation. Although many have tried, I doubt that anyone will find the blaze before they have figured out the first clue.”

            The first clue is the “lynch pin” or “keystone” upon which all the remaining clues rest. So what is the first clue? All I can say is, I don’t know what it is, or I would be in the field and not typing on my computer.

            Good luck to all!

      • Seeker – you said:

        Question; If WWh is the first clue… how the heck do we decide which one is correct from the “many WWW N. of SF”?

        That IS the 2 million $$$ question that we all want to know!!!

        Many people have correctly found the first clue; the majority of them couldn’t get the second clue which tells me they just got lucky in guessing the first clue. And then there are the others who were there and didn’t even have a clue that they were at the first clue. People out hitting and looking at all these WWH north of Santa Fe! (Is that another logical argument to be made that WWWH could be the first clue?)

        So what of the several that got two clues correct? And a few who might have the 3rd and 4th figured out, but f’s not sure? What do they know or what have they figured out? Are they just more persistent?

        I again come back to “a word that is key”. f thinks that the chest may be found sooner than he thought because a few “are in tight focus” with it. There are “many people out there that know a little bit about it, but not a lot”, and for the rest, they “are giving serious thought to the clues in my poem” but effectively getting nowhere.

        And what about those subtle hints in the book? f seems to think (OK, he has repeatedly emphasized over and over) that they can HELP a person figure out what the clues mean. But oh how he is so right about them being subtle, no one can even logically rationalize even one of them in the book to where it is accepted to be an actual hint.

        No wonder it may take a hundred, even a thousand years to find the chest! I can already sense the significant amounts of disappointment and frustration that is coming soon as so many (over)confident searchers get out and have a great vacation in the outdoors – just like f hoped to have it happen!

        • JCM,
          “Many people have correctly found the first clue; the majority of them couldn’t get the second clue which tells me they just got lucky in guessing the first clue.”
          Not completely accurate. the first “two clues” were indicated to fenn… but is was shown that fenn himself stated, NONE of those folks knew the had it right. and the same [ so far ] is understood about the next clues.
          “So what of the several that got two clues correct? And a few who might have the 3rd and 4th figured out, but f’s not sure? What do they know or what have they figured out? Are they just more persistent?”
          Again not accurate, they ‘did not know or figured out anything’… this was beat to death by loco, me, Jeremy and a few others a while back.
          “Do expect that people will somehow *know* for sure once they have found the first clue?
          No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds  the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.”
          There is an older quote as well to the above more resent quote. you can find that under Forest gets mail.
          Now if they were looking for Warm waters… its possible and more than likely..imo.. they pasted the first clue and didn’t know the significance of where they were. But we have been told we need to know the first clue, so without now that, isn’t it possible that we don’t understand something prior to WWWH or even what wwwh means.

          When it come to the book I agree the subtle points is the killer. but with anything water related… there is still many many choices to try and over a very large area… many states.

          • I am not sure I understand your disagreement of my statement not being accurate. Maybe I need to go back and read your throw-down of the subject.

            To me, if I pick a spot I think is the first clue (and it is indeed correct), go to it, obliviously walk past all the other clues, and then tell f about my trip there, then I certainly got the first clue correct; but that in no way means that I know that I had it correct. Like f said, you will not KNOW FOR SURE you have any of the clues correct until you have found the chest. I have always thought that; long before f even said it. Can one have confidence where they think they have the clues correct? I think so. I can’t imagine anyone will ever find the chest if they don’t.

            From f:

            I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several.

            Q. Do expect that people will somehow *know* for sure once they have found the first clue?
            A. No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.

            On the second point, same thing, Searchers have got the clues correct, but yes, they didn’t KNOW they had them correct. I don’t think that is what I was saying… maybe I need to go back and read what I said. 🙂

            My point is, what do these certain searchers actually know or understand that has allowed them to identify or solve the clues correctly (not KNOW for fact) and for f to acknowledge that people have got some clues correct, possibly 4 of them. I won’t accept it has just been random guessing and dart throwing.

            My vote for those that have several clues correct is “subtle hints” and for at least one search party “a word that is key”. The first one, many people loath, and the second one, most people are clueless about. And the rest of our discussions are entertainment.

        • LOL!! Hello JCM!!!

          Sorry about lighting the fire and bailing, but I had to mow the grass.

          OK, I pretty much concur with seeker. You guys threw out a bunch of links, so I won’t rehash those.

          “This poem written by Forrest Fenn contains nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of his rainbow and the treasure.”…..AND….. http://lummifilm.com/forrest/ffatcw20130926.mp3 –@36:15- “decipher what the clues mean, the clues can take you right straight to chest.”

          He has indicated the above in different ways, and a number of times.

          Nowhere has he ever said that you must “guess” at anything…..he says, decipher the nine clues and you can go straight to the chest…..

          In order to “begin” at WWWH, one must first identify what WWH is and exactly where it is located geographically.

          The only way to “know”(identify), with certainty, what it is, is if the Poem tells you such. Then you can locate where it is.

          And, the Poem must do that, else his statement, made at different times that the Poem contains all the information necessary, is not accurate!

          Yes, one must “begin” at WWWH to proceed in solving But it is not the First clue within the Poem!!…..it can’t be……

          • Hi Loco – The bulbs in my yard have come to life and some of my crocus have bloomed. I am happy to NOT be mowing my lawn yet! 🙂 Of course I only have about 1000 sq feet of it and it takes about 20 minutes to trim and mow all of it. Plus it is a low growing grass so I only need to mow it every 2 – 3 weeks when it starts looking unwieldy.

            At the end of the day, I think we are all mostly in agreement on all this stuff, perhaps it is just our own personal definitions of words that might cross at various points.

            I do have different thoughts on needing to know the location of WWWH so you can then identify WWH. I understand the point about the location and it is very logical and the reasoning sound. So does the first stanza contain the location? I think it could, I can paint a picture that is very descriptive of a general location using the 1st stanza where my WWH is. Is it a hint in the poem or is it a clue? I could argue it either way.

            My “a word that is key”, using f’s words, was determined long before f said anything about it. It pointed me to my current WWWH. I will say that it is clear and it leaves nothing to question about what is WWWH. And I don’t need to know the general location of it, thus is the 1st stanza a hint to help inspire confidence or does it contain a clue. I won’t know until I find the chest and verify the clues with surety, that is, of course if I am even right and ever do find it. I accept that I may very well be (and probably am) just one of the clueless idiots thinking I have something.

          • After years of beating my head against wwwh and trying to connect the dots.
            I am of the mind that the very first sentence is the first clue. Now this is purely my humble opinion. I have my reasonings for this, namely I needed something to help with the identity of the correct WWWH. As noted by many here there is at least 500 possible WWWH. eenie meenie minie moe….

            Of note is Forrest’s own words; he never really connects WWWH with you have to start at the beginning. Lately I am finding that Forrest tends to couch his answers to questions in such a way that they allow several interpretations.

    • Seeker,
      Smart thinking! Where do you think the first clue is? What stanza in the poem, is what I’m asking.


      • Kanafire,

        Which theory would you like my first clues from?
        I’ve thrown this out there before so here it is again. With the thought if the first “clue” as WWWH, something needed to be deciphered…
        The location to start is an answer not a clue. Two of the same difference, if you will… you need to know where to start… and you need to nail down the first clue.

        So where do you find the “answer” where to start? stanza five give an answer does it not. while some may say this moves the clues out of order, I say it’s not a clue… it could be simply telling us the “know where to start part” the 9 clues tell you what is needed to be know there or from there.

        If that doesn’t strike your fancy, There is the word ” I “. books have been written on the meaning and subject of “I” , Then question becomes who is I ?

        Another is about time. “In ‘there” in time. ” keep my secret ‘where” in time “Hint of riches new and old” or past and present. the poem itself jumps from present tense to past tense all the way through it.

        Then there are the exact opposite. why are so many word in the poem that do just that… New old, warm cold, Begin halt. just to point out the easily spotted ones.

        The point is why are these words that an Author of a poem who took 15 years to get it to his satisfaction…only talking stomping from point to point. Some may see connection to what I posted, some have i have talked with about them off line. Most will say… how can you do anything with that? well, it’s a different reading of the poem. The whole poem,not just 9 lines.

        Oh I forgot one… mirror image… for those who like SBs that is talked about or reference too in a few of them. and the book as well. it lines up with exact opposites, and IMO give a point to start with no guessing involved.

        I have a ton of, some very good stomping solves as well… but I don’t like them as that much, they all seem to guess a starting point… logical guessing, but still only guessing.

        The truth is. Depending on how you read the poem… the “starting point” can very. But the “clues” to be deciphered stay in order. So yes while I can agree to a point the first “clue” could be WWWH… it’s the Know where to start that explains how to figure out WWH.

        All for conversational different reading of the poem.

  15. WWWH that is the question? first it’s warm, second there is more than one water, third it ends…mmm now that should narrow your search to a small place in a huge area (rocky mountains), like the India girl Said I too found my WWWH and reading others post on Dal’s site I am not alone…to find the treasure chest we must no what is meant by Not far but too far to walk…that is the difference between where we r searching…good thing it’s a huge area four states or we would all be walking on each other..hurry up before the four sisters find the chest..how far did Forrest walk in the woods? must be a place he has been many times and felt save..maybe its in the woods close to his favorite lake..

  16. IMO, a searcher can:
    1–Choose a candidate WWWH based on certain criteria, then proceed to locate other clues, recursively changing and updating tentative clues when appropriate…
    2–Learn Canasta.
    “Have flashlight and gloves, will travel”

    • Oh, and remember that it is easy to get two clues right (whatever they may be), but miss clue 3; it is also apparently possible to get four clues right, but miss clue 5.

  17. I believe the most to least important clues are, being within elevation, understanding what the only visable clue known as the blaze could be and that the treasure must be lower than that point.. somthing thatd withstand time (geological), knowing where warm water halts and its source of location and understanding thats where u begin the treasure hunt and all other clues are based from that location to the trove, understanding which home (non structually) is Browns, from the halt u must take the canyon down not far but to far to carry 40lbs unnoticed, understanding why theres no paddling up your creek, gone alone in there must be a trail thatd hide his actions but not related to the blaze because trails come and go and wouldnt last thous of years, understanding the synonyms in the poem like water high heavy loads effort worth cold.. Knowing kids have a slight advantage and its not in a harmful nor a location out of reach for an 80yr old

  18. I want so badly to share my idea, but that may be a very bad idea..Lol. Has anyone else related a place they been before to the poss location of the treasure, if so have u related all the clues to your special place..?

    • never share all your location detail or your timeline details of travel to/from Shawn, imho…! if you are correct and too “spot on”, then there can be claim jumpers……… now some people on here might get upset that i said that but its the truth. i do believe that most people on this blog are genuine and great people, however, “to pretend” is a very powerful mind game. we reallly dont know anyone and what they are capable of.

  19. I think it’s fuuny after 5 yrs people r still wondering what is the first clue and WWWH is..but a little India girl who has never searched and only using the poem and map know the location..maybe u should look at the map and see what she sees…be like a child so keep it simple..hehehe

    • Who is this girl from india? And does he speak of her in his interview at santa fe bookstore?

        • Yea now i rember from the one interview. There is no girl from idia, only that the interviewer asked if a girl from over seas could locate it only based off the poem and he basially replied that u cant make i past the first several clues without bei in the wood, other hand he metioned someone messaged where they been searching he didnt reveal a name because then hed be givin them clues,, he only stated that that certain emailer has gotton 200ft from it, also funny cuz where i believe its at would be just abut that far from the road\parking place..Lol

      • So basicaly we know within 4 states a certain elevation a whole bunch of places its not, its in.. or lead to by a canyon its direct location is pointed to by a blaze.. I think people are over thinking and are too greedy, i forreal am in for the thrill, 2mill in free gold would be a nice bonus tho..! For those pesemist, stay home and watch someone from social media find the gold.. While u sit and cry that his 2mill prize didnt have fair clues..Lol but smh

    • Doesn’t this make you think Woody, that WWWH is not at all what you think it is?…And that it is something that is not really a spot on a map at all?…And really has nothing to do with water?…

      That the little girl from India(or a child from anywhere actually) could figure out WWWH without being able to know anything about the Rockies or anyplace therein?…Makes one wonder about that now doesn’t it?…

    • Thats what im thinking.. But my pool of water has alot more to relate to the poem then just a collction of warm water:) lol

      • I think Omega lake is the stillness of death always present under Sky Pilot Peak Sundance Peak being the gun fighter and outlaw spirit Forrest has within.

  20. I believe the only way to find it, is by knowing the poem and to have been there once before.. By having read the memoir and linking the only other unspecified but undenied clue within the memoir other than the poem to the first few vague and undiscriptive clues in the poem.. That then you will be able to find it._idk

  21. Ok to get back on track; Places for new people to consider.

    Ummm At one time I thought about Eagle nest lake. Problem with that is that it is a man made lake. ( dammed ) Nevertheless I pursued this path to Angle fire. The views from what I read suggested a blaze. While I was researching this Forrest posted that the chest was not associated with a dam. Scrapped that chase. Later on I researched yellowstone lake and several others.

    Something to consider, What if WWWH is where one stops sweating in the summertime? Suggesting a high altitude.

  22. Well what do we really know about WWWH? We know there is a very good possibility that it can be found on a map of the rockies. We also know WWWH is only a part of one sentence in stanza 2. This gives strong implications that the “it” in stanza 2 is a river. Which means there is a chance that “it” from stanza 2 is not far, but too far to walk. And of course this is IMO. The problem that i’m currently working on, is “it” not related to a dam or just WWWH?

      • Tired that idad before and since moved on. If that where true than one would have to search down in a canyon and Fenn says dont go where an 80 year old man cant go sounds like the canyon is on that list.

        • Unless the canyon has a Rd or some sort of easily accessible trail by horse or 4×4

  23. Well i believe that wwh is the first and primary clue.. He tells you to begin there and he follows with take the canyon down, so i believe wwh must be geological and not like poop blood or urine and i dont think the cayon would be the toilet._lol but from wwwh how far is to far to walk with forty lbs, lets just say twenty lbs.. For a eighty year old man, a mile? 200ft ? I believe its a short distance between wwwh and the home home of brown.. Its hard giving out clues and hoping no one gets to your spot before you do._.Lol

    • I’m glad you discussed the little girl. I had been perplexed as to how to understand that information in relation to the nine clues. Now I get it. My last loose end that needed tying up. Happy Hunting!

    • Ihmo, it’s about water, there are several ways to explain the s in waters, let’s try to list them here, sources of waters.

      One would be several creeks flowing together at one spot. (Their is a geographic term for that, just can’t spell it. ConfluEnce ?)

      Creeks or hot springs.

      • Remember the story about the kids and the Bronze Indian, temperature is relative.

      • The location I am looking at fits no less than THREE different definitions of where warm waters halt. One of the definitions is tied to the KEY WORD which I only understood today and had not considered before. It was so easy when I looked at it with that one word correctly defined. That one word made all the difference in how WWWH ties to the rest of the poem. Bring on summer! Cant wait to do some hiking.

  24. pdenver – if you or anyone else has a specific sentence where f himself specifically says BIWWWH is the first clue, I would love to have it too.

  25. Remember the purpose of this page.
    “This is for a discussion about Where Warm Waters Halt. We’ve all got ideas that didn’t work out or we are willing to share…”

    Starting point outside of the highlighted map.
    Great Salt Lake, yes talked about before. Clues didn’t line up for me.

    But i have a question, Does anyone’s starting place begin outside the four states highlighted on the map? The treasure is hidden in the highlighted map, but that doesn’t mean you have to begin there. Thoughts?

    • Arca,
      did you find anything specific regarding Great Salt Lake?
      The Spiral Jetty perhaps?

      • The GSL made a great WWWH… I thought but I couldn’t find what was next in line… Canyon down or anything else that would lead me to one of the highlighted states. The spiral jetty is very cool but nothing that worked into the next clue or sentence.
        The Great Basin in WY also makes a good WWWH. Green River south, through Brown to Dinosaur Nat. Park. Then the trail goes cold. But that solve doesn’t resolve the first stanza to point me to the WWWH.
        How about you? with GSL, where you able to connect ot another state? No details needed, but would love to know.

  26. One more thought, you may can add to this. Several ppl have told Forrest the right first two clues, so, IMHO, I bet there are 100’s more that have them, but hAve not told him. So, my point is, IMHO, it is not some obscure thing, I believe it’s strAight forward.

  27. IMO, all this WWWH talk seems to be going in circles. I’m not saying that there won’t be a creek or spring, or even a river confluence in the area where the chest will be found… That is, IF it’s found… I’m saying there must be another way to look at it (the poem) and locate it (the TC). I think once the “big picture” has been interpreted correctly and understood, it’ll become easier to figure out where to go, and what to look for… Make sense?
    For example, it’s like when you read your child a book or fairy tale… There’s usually a moral to the story… Something to be learned by the child from the overall understanding through their own perspective. That’s how I think the poem and clues need to be read and understood. That’s my 2 cents anyway.
    But what do I know? I certainly haven’t found the treasure… Yet. So carry on people. It’s almost spring and the temperatures are warming, the daffodils are blooming and the sun is shining! 🙂
    I gotta go to Target now. BBL

      • Hello pdenver.
        At? Well, at the end… “We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.” – T. S. Eliot
        So no, unfortunately I don’t know where the treasure is… Yet. It’s all a mystery to me. Do you think you know?
        I really don’t think anyone will know with absolute certainty until they’ve actually gone there and found it.
        Didn’t forrest tell us something like that somewhere along the line? I’ll have to look for that statement.

        • Hello WiseOne. Very clever. I thought I had covered all bases with my comment/question, but alas, I was wrong. 🙂

          Mr. Fenn has quoted T.S. Eliot very well. I had paused from the blog because I was doing more research. It is a very good quote, indeed.

          ‘Do you think you know?’ All of my studies have pointed me somewhere. Once more, Mr. Fenn’s statement couldn’t be more accurate. I hope to know the answer this year. 🙂

        • well, chalk one up on the tally board for ‘West’ ….. return and know it for the first time.

        • Well chalk one up on the tally board for West, …..arrive where we started…l.p.

          • Whoa I doubled up on that.
            NM is up there, it is closer to Santa Fe.
            YS has too many human trails.
            Colorado has too many mountains Montana lakes are to hi for seaplanes.

  28. What an amazing piece of literature everyone has created. To take one simple but brilliant poem and turn it a vast endless amount of possibilities. From astrology to the gave and from mountain tops to the battle fields. I have just started reading these blogs and impressed with everyones decryptic views. Will not participate in much conversation but know that I am reading and being very educated and entertained at your ideas. Thank you Dal for creating this site and most of all thank you MR. Fenn.

    • I agree… and as someone noted earlier that HALT means to stop and stand at attention, I’ll add that PROUD (a word used a lot in TTOTC) means standing tall and upright, as in the phrase “proud waves” meaning “tall waves”.

      I think WWWH has a poetic interpretation as much as a geographical one, and where warm waters halt, may be in asterisks on a wall. Natural and man-made walls.

      • Found at the bottom of Dan Brown’s homepage, below the home of Brown:

        “Job 38:11”

        Job 38:11: “when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves halt’?”

  29. Warm Waters halt. In Detroit I had my students search for warm water held back by something. I had them find a cold place that warm water would flow into. We pulled up the maps and looked for places, there are many.

  30. Just playing with the “halt”
    There are 2 “alt” keys on a standard keyboard. The “h” is just above them, and if you draw a line from each it creates a triangle.

    So the letters “V, B, N, M, the space bar,”, are the factors. The space bar and the alt keys would be the base of the pyramid, etc.. If you want, you could use the C and the comma or < to expand a little.

    Maybe it is as simple as looking at your keyboard. I know this has nothing to do with water, but that might be the point. Each word has its own solution to create a another solution, and so on.. Just like how a pyramid is build, or a sort of funnel.

    If you picture the poem and its theme as a single entity, then you can create other ideas, but turning the poem into different stories using metaphors.

    If I were to guess, I would say that Fenn used the most common of words in the english language to help guide the finder. Each layer is precise, based on your imagination. And the only way to find out if your imagination is correct, is by checking your work. That means going back and seeing how things fit. Naturally it should come to you as like a Eureka moment. If it is doing its job. IMO, I cannot see the poem guiding someone to the treasure without knowing what every single character in the poem means. You have to know, why he used the word halt, vs. any other word. Once you eliminate those, then you will have a clear path.

  31. For those looking at WWWH philosophically/historically as the death of Native Americans and their way of life, culminating with Chief Joseph’s brave retreat… these modern day tributes may be of interest.

    Chief Joseph history: http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/09/21/native-history-nez-perce-leader-chief-joseph-walks-151234

    Annual Chief Joseph/Appaloosa Trail Ride http://www.theprairiestar.com/news/equine/appaloosa-group-follows-flight-of-nez-perce/article_b9d90cbe-f53b-11e2-9af0-0019bb2963f4.html

    • Thank you lia020…in 2014 we visited a childhood friend of my husbands who happens to live in Clark WY.

      She told us to take the ‘Chief Joseph’ Scenic Highway to the NE entrance of YNP. We are still talking about it today.

    • Thank you Lia020, For an Exceptional Nation, we sure make a lot of broken hearts, new and old.

  32. All,
    After reading recent posts, I have a suggestion: Take a look at the first four clues (and IMO “where warm waters halt” is one of them), and try to figure out how they are related. It seems logical that they ARE related, in some way, since it is apparent that at least one searcher has solved those four.
    “Have flashlight and gloves, will travel”

  33. You sound as Forrest, last week when he said something like,
    After reading hoD, I am compled to ask , have you considered the what if’s?

    • Hello Vel. I’d like to suggest there may be more of an appropriate “canyon down” other than for which you speak.

        • Hello Vel. I agree with this aspect of the conversation. I do not agree with your first sentence on March 16, 2016 at 11:11 p.m..

        • Hello Vel. I have not seen “Pulp Fiction.” I would not know how your question about Mr. Fenn’s health and “Pulp Fiction” have in common with the chase.

          • Vel – Yes, it is a great movie; fantastic movie and true to its name. In fact, I almost hate to admit, one of my favs.

            But what, in fact was your point? The movie has zero relevance to Mr Fenn, his health or this chase. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and suppose your initial comment was just a lame attempt at humor. However, to invoke the scene you refer to is baseless, not to mention downright crass. Not funny.

        • Not only has Mr. Fenn served our country and has been titled decorative war hero, he has also invited us an oppotunity to have a piece of his vast fortune. He does not owe us anything and yet has given us everything. A sense for adventure and an amazing payoff in the end. So I guess if it makes you feel better to poke at a man of this magnitude, first you are wasting your time and second go ahead while a serious seacher finds the true reward.

          • Give me a break, I bet Forrest has a good sense of humor, btw I’ll be the one to return him his bracelet this Summer.

          • Okay you have about 10 weeks to do so tick tock tick tock if mr Fenn finds this amusing then I apologize it just seemed to me you were needling this website

        • Hello Vel. We shall see. I do wish you the best of luck with the chase. Be sure to have a lot of fun doing so. 🙂

  34. yesterday’s seArch for what tells us whAt wwwh is…
    Here is a simular question asked of ff on Jenny’s site and his reply.

    Dear Forrest,

    You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:

    a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
    b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”

    Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve

    No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

    Back to me now. See, now he globalised to a tenth clue, not even in the poem, About Santa Fe, I know, it’s all in context, he did not mean that the famous, unknown nine are really tent, but it’s eAsy to assume ..? What? I don’t know

  35. In my opinion if you can not come up with ” Begin it where (warm waters) halt” then the rest of the Poem is unreachable. Everybody wants a certainty to start with and this is not it. Its not the first clue. There are no certainties.
    The Chase is geared to a person who is willing to think, use their imagination and grab the world by the tail to have an adventure, to prove themselves right or wrong. Although it is possible to solve this “Poem” from your couch to an extent, I believe that to grasp what you need a person must get out and roll a few logs over just to see what happens, in doing so you will discover the unknown. Mr. Fenn stated he was not being flippant about the Chase, which would serve everyone well to follow his lead. Certainty comes from knowing what doesn’t work.
    I considered not posting this, and had to reflect for a while as to what my intent would be. I will leave everyone with this to ponder, if you are serious about TTOTC and what is at stake would you ever consider revealing what might be the piece that reveals the secret to a Contender? To me that is being flippant and you have not grasped the Thrill. Don’t forget to have fun along the way.

    • That’s where you and I differ. I will reveal what might be a piece to the solve. I look at it like this. Others have teamed up and are closer than I. So I offer my ideas so the rest, so that “we” can catch up and pass those ahead. If my info leads to a searcher finding the treasure than i say congratulations, but please leave a gold coin in a little box so i know i also solved it.

  36. I am not saying that your resolve to the poem is wrong and I am not absolutely saying mine is right I also feel confident just like many other searchers have before they ventured out I really do wish you the best of luck I will if I do retrieve the chest do everything in my power to bring resolve for everyone I just hope they would do the same so that people are not continuing to go on a wild goose chase

  37. You are quick to Say that, without the backup. Spit it out, else no need to make a basically uselezs statement. Sorry, but there are way to many informative comments made.

    • Sure, I will spoon feed you all of my solve , ….NOT! I will throw out some things for your consideration, but no way am I “backing it up” with my hard earned information…if you don’t like what I have to say, just ignore it. I figure 90 percent of the time I am just talking to myself anyways, because aren’t we all too convinced of our own solves and intellectual prowess to even consider another point of view?
      WWWH IS the Continental Divide, but WHERE on the continental divide?? Stanza one gives us that info…in a round about way. This is just my humble but experienced opinion…after nearly five years and 20 trips with BOTG..
      I really don’t know what people expect on this blog…Do you want everyone to just blurt out what they think the clues are so you don’t have to figure them out?? Or is this blog about ideas, suggestions, thoughts, and comments? I read this blog to hear others ideas and experiences…and I have seen people come and go on here…It is difficult enough to give out what I believe is useful information, with a full solve just waiting to be tested…but I want to participate…perhaps to toot my own horn a little, but also to stimulate POSITIVE feedback, and different points of view. Let’s face it…we all have different points of view…some places they overlap, and others seem WAY out in left field. If WWH MANY places in the Rocky mountains, and most are north of Santa Fe, then doesn’t the Continental Divide at least garner some consideration as “fitting” that description? So then, if the clues are in order, then Stanza one MUST tell us whereabouts on the continental divide to start looking…ALL IS ONLY MY OPINION.

      • Michael D, Your toot is not alone as I know it has been posted several times before.

      • “…because aren’t we all too convinced of our own solves and intellectual prowess to even consider another point of view?”


        I wouldn’t say “all.”
        I for one have one or two different view point… I can name a couple dozen more to boot.


        “Some” have been over confident to convince themselves that the next perfect solve they come up with… MUST be the correct one… doesn’t that just nip at the nerves a bit.

        Oh right… imo. < lower case.

          • @Michael D

            I think I mentioned this to you before, but you’ve got the right attitude if you think you know where it is. Fortune favors the bold.

      • As we attempt to solve the poem I find it helpful to remember Forrest’s description of an author leaning towards the subject when writing an autobiography. It’s easy to allow self-bias to direct our solutions. But we aren’t writing our story. We’re trying to interpret Forrest’s.

        He spoke about flexibility being a key, and no thing being too small to learn. I try to take Forrest at his word and believe his approach makes the journey more satisfying. Exploring numerous ideas and methods of solving makes for an interesting journey. Holding each idea loosely allows me flexibility in crafting a fennian solution than pigeon holing myself inside of my own solution…and eliminates eating crow 😉

        • Anna,
          I like the way you presented your thoughts, and allow yourself to be open / flexible. As you said it is easy to be self bias to direct our solutions.
          “But we aren’t writing our story. We’re trying to interpret Forrest’s.”
          With that thought in mind, and attempting to be flexible… is the goal here to try and interpret fenn’s story?

          One thought, for me that comes to mind, is the challenge itself. Fenn is challenging us to crack his written words placed in poem form.
          If I was to attempt a challenge like this, one of my first thoughts would be… don’t let the needed information relate directly to me. Especially when many people know me, a city has heard/dealings/ with me, high influential people have dealings with me, family and friends that have known me most of my life…as well as others would dissect every inch of my life to study me, and I made the prize too irresistible to give up trying.

          I would [ in my mind ] attempt to have that information unrelated to me as much as possible…

          I know someone will say… the book is about his memoirs, and those are about the subject life… and the book tells of clues/ hints sprinkled in the pages… however we have been warn the path would not be direct… and the hints and clues unintentional, and to look for aberrations that hang on the edge. Fenn definitions is; Something different.

          Imo, flexibility allows one to take themselves out of that comfort zone…
          Just another perspective… thanks, I like when a post likes yours gives me pause to think differently.

        • My problem is I have come up with so many WWH that my brain has overloaded with information… I mean, it could be triple divide peak, could be a lake that’s not dammed, could be a trout stream in new mexico, etc… etc…

          The problems is knowing which one… it seems EVERYTIME I find a solution I feel confident about I find another one that could be just as much right…but maybe just maybe I got this last one down right this time…

          But I don’t know… I don’t think I can proceed with confidence even though I feel confident…because I feel I got the right solution but there are so many other possibilities it seems impossible expect by process of elimination…

  38. Vel, congrats on solving the poem..make sure u start in the right state (WWWH) or u will come up empty but u will have adventures to tell..so what state r u searching..hehehe..IMO, WWWH is Wyoming…yepee..but the end of the rainbow is treasure st.

    • I’m going to the Beartooth mountains in Southern Montana. My clue starts with Omega lake which is on Sky Pilot mountain, also the alias of the Sundance Kid was H.A. Brown, I’m not telling any more of my clues especially the blaze.

  39. I recognize when my comments aren’t welcome…I will put my money where my mouth is soon enough…until then, I will just read, and stop sharing, since I apparently just keep repeating myself in capital letters…disturbing the peace in here.

  40. I wonder if “Bob Flame” is the blaze. He was a Ranger in many parts of the Rocky Mountains.

      • The details on the book say that Bob Flame is a mythological character who is written into some real life experiences of the author.

  41. Michael D – you’re looking for different points of view, well allow me to Spoon feed you. Chew on the following:

    1. I agree with you and Joe King that WWH is not the first clue. It is, as the poem says, where you begin IT. And I don’t think there’s been nearly enough discussion about what IT is.
    2. To my memory I’ve never seen anyone on any of the blogs mention what I believe is the correct WWH. So I guess that implies that I don’t think the Continental Divide is right.
    3. I have seen mention of what i believe are the first two clues, however. But I think for the most part those same people didn’t realize that they were in fact the first two clues.
    4. And only once have I seen someone correctly (in my view) identify the nine clues, and I wasn’t sure if that person was being serious at the time. But that person has made other insightful comments on this blog and has caught my attention before.
    5. As a generalized statement, I believe Master Fenn is absolutely kicking our butts in this challenge of wits. He is definitely way smarter than the average bear and perhaps one of the most intelligent persons I’ve ever come across. I don’t think enough people really understand that.

    I’m sorry that you feel that your comments aren’t well received, but I also think you are being a little impetuous in reaching that conclusion. You don’t need to shout it out in capital letters to get our attention, but do realize that the rest of us with our wee little brains are working hard at this too.

  42. Stay with us Michael.

    I do not see how stanza 1 is a clue to solve. Its telling about hiding a treasure. Sure that’s what we are after. But if the book did not exist, and it was not a sure thing thAt the book ever would, the purpose of the poem has to exist somrwhere else, where better than in itself.
    In mho stanzas 5 and 6 are metaphors for Life (for whom the bells toll) and are not clues whose solves involves geography type locations. The point of mentioning that is that I’m not just flat lining the poem, imo. So, imo, I have worked with stanza 1.

    About wwwh….. Durn. Read my several post near top of ‘perfect solution or not’ I think that’s what it called, here’s the link,

    I’m floundering around on wwwh now… some one straighten me out. I maY need to take a few days off.

  43. In the immortal words of major Hockster ( Hogan’s heroes )
    What is this man doing here??

    A man with vision can see the world in it’s various colors and hues.
    A Man with tunnel vision only sees his world.
    Good luck in your Umm chase. :/

  44. Wow, I’ve decided to share some of my ideas and get demonized over it, Forrest called it the thrill of the chase and that’s what I want, I think I have it figured out and I want some competition, I’ll be there first and ill be the first to realize I’m right or wrong, first to draw and shoot accurately gets to write history.

    • If you know, you need only go, if you don’t know, it’s a nice vacation. Happy Hunting.

    • I’ll be your huckleberry. Now to the rest of the searchers I have to go with confidence I am from Indiana and my travels will be expensive so I have to be sure and spot on with only one solve I do not like some of you have the luxury of just walking out your back door and starting an adventure I am envious. Spring is near happy hunting

    • vel I am sure many here have read your comments. In some cases those may not comment but take some time to mull over what you have posted. I have read your postings. Did not really care for the comment about brown nosers….

      Imo sit back and think out your posting then type it edit it and post. Not everyone will agree, this is our nature. So take no offence please. Just consider the feedback. Never can tell when that ahhh haaa moment might hit. 🙂

  45. Having read most of the recent posts and making random comments here and there to allow my thoughts to ferment into something tangible.
    I noted some confident searcher’s with some interesting ideals. I also noted to onset of cabin fever, demonstrated by the voicing of frustrations.

    So in an effort to provoke some thought I present the follow. Please keep in mind these ideals are just the humble opinion of a keyboard hack.

    New perspectives: ” Begin it where warm waters halt” Perspective shift: Begin it where cold waters start..

    “As I have gone alone in there” Is the 1st clue. Reasoning. Look at the picture of Forrest in his study for the hint. ( study the photo carefully, What do you see? )

    Now I have taken some time recently to define a few words in the poem.
    Like so many I took those meanings and fondled them mentally for a bit, nothing came to mind until this evening as I read the various comments here.
    A question came to mind ” how can I redefine this word in a way that is not in a dictionary and still mean the samething? Forrest has hinted at this approach for sometime. Now I will sit back an chew the fat mentally to see what comes to mind.

    • Okay… think I need a break. I’m over my cold. Can’t see that first clue yet.

      One last thing. Looked up water and waters, water is used generally as to describe the element, waters is to refer to a particular stream, creek whatever, imo.

      Hard to let it rest.

      • Yes most assume waters hints of many waters sources but I’m thinking the odds are better of a single flowing water source.To confluence or not to confluence that is the question?

  46. HUMMMM – Now which word is she chewing on?

    I have about four “special” or “unique” interpretations to “common” words in my solve. Hope they are right.

    Good luck to you, and to all and STAY SAFE


  47. I am about to become officially divorced over this darn chase. I am SO obsessed with it, that I have alienated my friends and family by not being able to talk or visit without bringing it up. Most in my circle think I am on a wild goose chase, and convincing them otherwise is an unwelcome waste of my breath. When I get caught on this blog, or on google earth, late at night, by my wife, we get into an argument about my devotion to the chest over her. I have decided to take one last trip…I am going for six days, four of which will be spent in my search area. It is still too early, but I have to think about family first, and I am having trouble doing that while the what if’s bounce around in my head. I have been keeping an eye out on the weather in the area, and I even talked to a Ranger that patrols near there. He stated that there’s still some snow, but thinks a vehicle could get there with chains. It is not ideal, but I have to put this thing to bed once and for all before I lose everything I have by looking for something I will probably never find. I have decided not to share my solve…better to let chasers figure things out on their own, and I don’t want to step on anyone else’s toes if they are in the same area as me. But I do want to share one last thing…

    In my opinion….

    The first stanza contains clue one… DWELL ON IT. It is THE single most important clue of the entire poem, and contains all the information you need to unlock the rest of the clues, including the key word, and the word that is key.

    I have truly enjoyed the chase. Thank you all for the comradery and great discussions. Thank you to Forrest Fenn too, You are a unique and indelible soul, and whatever the reasons were behind the chase in the beginning, it has become its own cultural phenomenon…and even if the chest was found tomorrow, you have secured your footprints in the sands of time. You provided me with a positive outlet during a very difficult time in my life, and I will never forget that. I believe I am close…I believe I have been closer to the chest than anyone so far…that is a bold and rash statement, but I believe it. Soon I will try one last time to prove it. But successful or not, this will likely be my last adventure in the Chase. A special thanks goes out to Germanguy and Cynthia…my one time search partners…we may not have seen eye to eye on everything, but we shared a common belief.
    Good luck to you all, and God bless.

    Michael D

    • Every thing in moderation even the good things in life… especially the good things in life. The Chase is ment to inspire individuals, try to feel inspired not obsessed.

    • Good hunting Mike…..I truly mean that.

      I can’t remember how many times over the years you’ve been absolutely sure you knew where the treasure was. As far as what you’ve done to your family and friends, I’m sure they’ve tried to help you come to your senses; what they need to realize is some folks are just self destructive. A lot of good men and women have died to give you the freedom to be as stupid as you wish; at least for now.

      Many people that become obsessed with a goal and actually achieve it have found the victory to be hollow and short lived. You will have a box of gold and you’ll be the next one hit wonder; but everything else, and anyone else that would actually care about you finding it are all long gone.

      Which reminds me of my favorite old saying: “If you’re gonna be stupid, you gotta be tough.”

        • What he and the rest of us are saying is just let it go for a while. We’ve seen how stubborn some folks can be, taking 50 or more trips on a whim. Wouldn’t it be great if we could all do that?

          Odds are you’ll just come back empty-handed/ or worse & the TC probably isn’t going anywhere for another 6 years.

    • Good luck, Mike. But I don’t understand why you can’t wait for better weather. What might happen is you might blame the snow for not finding it and then have to make another last trip.. (it happened to me once– good lessons learned on that one though).

      I’ve been sitting on my latest solve since November and still I wait for warm weather. Maybe May 9 or so if the sun will be shining.

    • Michael, there isn’t a chest of gold big enough that’s worth straining relationships with the people in the world that love you most. At the end of the day, the gold chest doesn’t care about you or have any concern over whether you are or are not on this planet when the sun rises tomorrow. My suggestion would be to walk away from this now and don’t look back. You don’t have anything to prove to anyone. I’m sorry you are going through all of this. Focus on those things which are really important in life and honestly gold isn’t really one of them. Gold as an incentive to challenge and push one’s own boundaries may be but not if it means strained or disrupted relationships with your life partner as a consequence.

  48. Haven’t been online for a long time. Appears that many seek the ‘guide’ or ‘tell me and I’ll get it’ approach. IMO. Perhaps – the ”listen all” means that we could all end up finding the same chest. I believe two others are attempting to follow my “tracks” and it is okay. I finished and it is still there. With work, they will find the same chest – so I feel. IMO one is confident when one has studied the art/honed the skill and is patient and quiet. Being quiet is like going in alone even though you have your BFF with you 🙂 Be safe and take your time, all.

  49. Michael,

    Years ago I lost my wife to a major heart attack.
    All of the gold in the world can not bring her back.

    What words could I use to express how I long to hold her in my arms again.
    To crease her face, to look into her brown eyes. None are sufficient.
    Forget the chase, the chest. The promise of gold. You already have it.
    If you do not believe me. Pull out the family photo album and browse the pictures. Let your mind wonder back to the days they were taken.
    Perhaps then you will see your chest of gold.

  50. Oh, my goodness. There’s the golden nugget. Cherish your life, your love and your humanity in the now.

  51. Where warms waters halt?????

    Just a couple of thoughts;

    Could it be that they do just that “halt” or stop. Could they flow out of the mountains into a desert area and then just dry up?

    Could they be flowing down a canyon and “halt” by going under ground?

    Forrest has mentioned the desert in some of his interviews and comments.

    Any comments on these ideas?

    • Must things don’t halt permanently and considering we are taking about water I’m thinking after it halts it moves once again. Some believe it’s the warmth that halts but common it’s water, it’s going become warm and than cool and than repeat the process, it’s the cycle of water. Since we are taking about the rockies where the CD is, this is the greatest place for the cycle of water that can be viewed from this great country of ours. Of course that process happens slowly but is still easily seen. Starting to convince my self that snow falling on the rockies my be WWWH. But wait it’s snow that’s cold not warm, the warm water would come from the evaporated bodies of water. But are they really warm? Since most of the precipitation comes from the ocean and ocean are generally cold until you get closer to the equator. There seems to be more holes in this idea to make a valid argument.

      This brings me to the most logical next best assumption and that is WWWH IS related to a river in one way or another.

    • I have posted this before and feel it is worth posting again.
      What if WWWH has nothing to do with water???
      It is easy to think of WWWH in terms or water, however as an illustration
      I point to Some mountains just southeast of glacier national park.
      Of special note is all of the natural lakes in that mountain range. Not to mention the areas such as ynp etc etc.
      What a perfect way to add more hay to the haystack!
      Please keep in mind we are searching four states and maybe Forrest knows how many miles the rockies cover in those states. A thousand or so????
      For a 10″x10″x5″ chest. Like many here I have beat WWWH to death, lord only knows how many lakes, streams, creeks I have looked at.
      This is just my humble opinion, I do not wish disway anyone from their pursuit of indulgence. What I am offering is merely something for consideration after you have exhausted or eliminated your choice of WWWH.

      • i was just thinking WWWH could mean ‘people’ cause were made of 60 or so percent of “warm waters” so WWWH could mean where people sleep, halt, relax or start a journey so to say…

        • My thoughts??

          A place where people settled.
          A place where a group of people separated into two groups due to a disagreement??? Or to follow two different routes.
          A place where a drought forced people to move.


          • Yes I was thinking of something like that…In my imagination I thought Warm waters could mean friendly people or something like that…and halt means stop that…

            Great minds think a like!

          • That is an interesting concept:
            Where friendly people stopped, camped or settled. Ummmm.
            Wait for it wait for it…..

            Where peaceful people settled????????

          • As of this time I have no plans for a search.
            Over the winter I purchased a property in SoCal. It is a fixer upper.
            So a lot of my time will be consumed with some sweat equity work.
            Currently I am still sitting here in Mi packing tools and personal items.
            Considering road conditions I may take a southern route to SoCal that will having me rolling through Albuquerque. After reading posts about Santa Fe and Taos I am tempted to take a little detour. hehehe.

          • I think you are aware as I am that research is an essential part to any solve.
            So my next question would be who were the people that fit the given criteria?
            Assuming ( hate that word ) that my hypothesis is correct. Knowing who the people were or are will give me a starting point from which the other clues can be looked at with an imaginative mind.
            Without saying a whole lot, I do have a peoples in mind.

            Do you foresee a search in your future?

          • If that works then which hostilities keeping in mind the rest of the poem? help me out…

          • Now that is the question that begs research. Time frames play a role too.
            So as I have said research is essential in getting a mental picture of the area.

          • Chad,

            I have believed for a while now that Warm Waters Halt has nothing to do with water bodies/features at all. One of my many theories, which I have posted all on the pages herein, is that Warm Waters could refer to a group of people.

            The people I refer to are know as the “water” clans. Each clan was given a different name.


            Bitter Water Clan
            Salt Water Clan
            Near Water Clan
            Big Water Clan
            Waters Edge Clan,

            Another example is simply a play on words. In the last stanza, Fenn tells us to listen good. I had to ask my self – “Listen to what?”

            So – could it possible be that Where Warm Waters Halt = Where Warm Water Salt? If so, then I can argue that the Salt River Range fits. Turn it around and you have Range River Salt.

            Range/Stove = Warm
            River = Water
            Salt – (s)Halt.

            It’s a pretty big place to start, but it puts you in a really good position for two viable solves. One solve takes you north. The other along the Greys River, where you can contemplate the possible correlation of Hot Foot Creek and looking down quickly when you discover a blaze.

            You can find my almost complete solve for these somewhere back in the nine-clues section. It also has another play on words where “go in peace” = “go Wimpys.”

            Scott W.

  52. it is very worn, with part of a loop fixed to it.
    i think it was worn ,as pendant its ,1884 or 1854 hard to read.
    i found it on the beach near santa monica pier

    • No matter what the condition it is still a nice find.
      In a park in excelsior springs Mo I found a perfect 1916 D barber dime.
      yeah I was disappointed that it was not a merc, but it’s condition made up for that. What type of detector do you use? I have a white’s coinmaster and a garret AT 350. Can hardly wait to go hunt the mountains around trona ca for gold deposits.

    • Or in my case when the coffee runs out lol. I think there is a pun in there someplace…

      • yes cost me $ 3000, found a few nuggets with it
        you got to go to far to use it .
        its to sensitive. for park/beach use
        my garrett cost $300 great for park /beach
        i use it nearly every week , much better buy. and its light and takes regular batteries
        the big one is heavy and u got to charge the batts
        but its the one i would take to search for ff,s chest

        • Ummmm ahhh I get this sneaky feeling that a searcher will not need a detector to find the chest. From the back of my mind comes the thought that wits and keen observation will reveal the chest when one is within a few feet of it.

  53. i think the blaze is the sun rise
    you have to be in a certain place at a certain time
    when the sun rise’s, the first rays of light , fall on the chest’s location
    you have to look quick , before full sun rise.
    there is a picture in one of the books showing a native indian looking at the sunrise ?
    where the place is i dont know
    just a thought
    happy hunting all

    • I have only one problem with that. Forrest stated he hid the chest in one afternoon.

      The more I think about it the more I am inclined to think ” If you have been wise and found the blaze ” is two fold. First fold being that the path to the chest has been stated in previous stanzas. Second fold is actually standing on the path.
      It is possible that a afternoon shadow of a mountain or rock formation could point to the chest.
      To me Forrest has made it clear that people have gone past the hob without realizing its significance. What could be so easily overlooked? Now apply that train of thought to the blaze. Hidden in plain sight???

      Welcome to my rabbit hole

        • to my solve to the blaze
          you are moving , in a boat , flying , ? quickly look down
          or the blaze is moving , sunset , sun rise,
          or in shadow as u say , got to see it quick ,

          • IDk, some of that just does not feel right. If the places were there when Forrest was a kid wouldn’t they have moved then?

        • I think a review of the conversation about that photo by Forrest is in order.
          About 30% of the population is left handed. I think Dal is right handed. Which would lend to the ideal Dal was facing the camera When that photo was taken.

          Maybe Dal will chime in and tell us if the photo was taken in the morning or the afternoon???

          • @Chad uh, Dal took the photo of that spot on the Madison or some river and the shadow got photo shopped in from what we’ve been told….or did I dream that….TC overload…

          • I can relate to TC overload, I often find myself researching new ideals while replying to posts.

          • Chad-
            You appear to have not read some important posts about that book and it’s cover photo. As Cholly has pointed out, the shadow was “photoshopped” in. I supplied the photo. The book designer supplied the shadow and combined them to create that cover.

  54. Hi q1werty,
    My apologies for missing your post. Interesting ideals.
    Why stop at clans? Forrest ask us not to mess with his poem.
    Playing with the meanings of words is fair game.

    • Chad,

      I haven’t stopped at anything in particular. I simply gave a couple examples where I might be able to relate WWWH to something other than H2O. I have several more.

      It just seems to me that WWWH almost has to be something other than a body of water. Perhaps a thing/place/people that reference water, but not water proper.

      Maybe it is as simple as the Indian agency on the Stillwater River.

      I don’t know, but I am no longer looking for/at/or around glaciers, Summer Ice Lake, Rock Lake Glacier, lakes on the CD that don’t drain, etc.

      Too many of those to sift through. UNLESS! – I have the first stanza wrong. Which is a very likely possibility.

      Scott W.

      • Only one way to find out, sift your solution. Try to find a reason it will not work.
        If you do not find a hole then look for the next clue. keeping in mind it is not so much what the lines are saying it is what Forrest ment.

  55. Hello all Searchers,

    I am new to posting to this blog, only searching now for about five months now, and of course these are just my opinions.

    My job is compiling facts, to distinguish honesty from dishonesty, and applying facts to solve disputed situations.

    This is my opinion as to what the first clue is:

    While I agree many of the clues are open to many interpretations, and I agree people are more than free to disagree, but stated facts are stated facts (of course, unless they are lies, but to me, Fenn comes across as an extremely honest person) and I think the first clue is WWWH.

    *It’s also worth noting that Fenn has always distinguished between “Clues” and “Hints.”

    Fenn has stated several times that we must begin WWWH. He also stated that a few searchers (at least one female who is very active) have figured out the first two clues but then past the next seven. Lastly, Fenn stated that all the clues are in order and are contiguous.

    Nothing in the first stanza stands out as anything that can connect to WWWH.

    While there may be “hints” about the ultimate location of the Chest in the first stanza, logically, the first “clue” is WWWH.

    Also, if WWWH is not the first clue that would put “take it in the canyon down” as the third clue. I believe it would be very hard to get the first two clues correct and then miss, or travel right past, a canyon.

    That’s one of the things Fenn did brilliantly while writing this poem; he made the starting point have hundreds of possible locations north of Santa Fe in the Rockies.

    Let me know what yall think, and thanks.

    • Welcome to the Chase Reap,

      I agree that Forrest did a brilliant job of concealing information in the poem. Imho one thing you are missing is Forrest likes to play with words and their meanings. One example of Forrest playing with a word is butterflies / Flutterbies. Before Forrest told us not to mess with his poem I must confess I jumbled words lines and whole stanzas. Most came out in nonsense. Than Forrest told us not to mess with his poem. For sometime It did not dawn on me how he could have concealed information in the poem until recently.

      Like many here will attest they have researched many places where WWWH could be. I would really be interested in what you’re compilation of facts can illustrate. By all means enlighten us.

      • Thanks for the welcome,

        In a small way I am a little lucky for coming into the Chase as late as I am; with Fenn providing the additional clues and interviews, along this blog, Mysterious Writings’ blog, and with the many searchers writing about their solve and sharing their ideas. I can only imagen how the search was before the map, the additional clues, and the rest. I admire everyone that’s been it from the beginning.

        I get Fenn likes to play with words. He said he has made up a word in every book he’s written that he made sure wasn’t in the dictionary. I like work “where” always bothered me in the first stanza. I kept trying to match it with the WWWH’s “where.” Like Fenn was telling us he hid it where the warm waters halt and the rest of the clues would bring you back to the beginning, but then he said in the search won’t switch back or make a loop.
        So when I researched the word “where” I found in the definition the word is a common replacement for “in which.” Replacing it, the first stanza made a little more sense.

        “As I have gone alone in there
        I can keep my secrets in which,”

        I am taking it as a hint that the chest is hidden in a cave that’s not an old mine, naybe an old native American dwelling or something.

        I have been all over the place with WWWH. My first solid WWWH was Boiling River that flowed down into Lava Canyon that led to Lamar Valley; my second, I got stuck on was Firehole River halting at the Madison; and then there has been almost every other hot springs around Yellowstone, West Yellowstone, and southwest Montana. But recently I’ve looking farther south since the New Mexico True Story video.

        Like every searchers, my ideas are constantly evolving. For example, a day or so ago, I was reading a book centered in northwest New Mexico, the characters where running through the desert canyons looking for water but kept finding only dried-up rivers and pools. That’s when a light bulb went off, “what if WWWH was a river or creek that seasonally evaporates and dried up,” then I spent a night wasting my time chasing that possible dead end.

        • Imo the cheat sheet , additional clues, media interviews, Expedition Unknown, etc., etc… Is to get people of the couch. Our reward( to the people or individual that finds it ) is that Fenn has created a buzz that has made the chest worth more than its weight in gold. You only need the poem. Remember as a child your teacher or parent would tell you the KISS rule, well this can be applied here as well. Happy hunting! If you do not find the chest hope you can enjoy some memorable adventures.

        • You have mentioned many places that that match up with several of the poem clues.
          Most of which have been hit on by many of the searchers here. I would not venture a guess as to how many put boots on the ground in those areas just to have a looksee. This is not to say that a given area is wrong. Tis merely a been there a done that statement.

          What has lead me to my current line of thought that WWWH may not be the first clue is the fact Forrest has never clearly linked WWWH to being it. Look at his statements read em carefully.

          There is no clear link, there is however an indication that something is missing and he sets forth an example. As for WWWH being associated with water. I have one concept left to research. Which I have talked about in another posting here on this blog. In recent postings elsewhere Forrest has hinted at the first four clues being possibly solved. Which sounds like to me that a person or a number of people may be very close to figuring out the perspective that Forrest uses in the poem’s / clues creation.

  56. I didn’t fail. I just found 2,000 ways not to make a light bulb; I only needed to find one way to make it work. “Thomas Edison “

  57. Could Forrest’s mentions of marbles in his book, be a subtle clue to wwwh?

    • Have you found the tidbits???
      If one reads carefully they will see why I am no longer looking at why WWWH has nothing to do with water.

        • The poem implies that the treasure is hidden near water, but the courses of waterways can change drastically over time, even from season to season, let alone over centuries.
          I believe Chad maybe referring to this. just a guess. I Like this comment myself…
          Fenn says he worked on the poem for a long time too, “changing and rearranging. Each word is crafted in its place. No part of it was not looked at from every angle.”

          Every angle… architectural design? What good map that has more “detail” the better, are we looking for? One little tool GE has is the angle of view of a mountain range. There are other aspects to angle as well… but could the map, a good map, the correct map, the map that hold the “detail” of the chase… be the poem’s design?

          Not a new concept, as it has been mentioned be for. [ toot toot, that’s right if other can blow the golden horn why can’t I ? lol ] Nevertheless, limited chat about the possibility.

          • Yeah, but that’s not really confirmation of anything. That’s the writer of the article’s thoughts.

          • Your correct… and we have experience reporting, not be accurate. However we have other comments to look at this as a whole.

            So it comes down to this… did fenn over a 15 year process give us what is needed to be understood and used… for us to this figure out… or are we to search and research everything and all to solve the poems clues, and discover the location of his chest?

            This is not the only statement of word placement, changing the poem, rearranging it, even eliminating lines. [ the ~ take the chest and leave my bones ] is ‘one’ that we have been told of. So if the “from every angle” is remotely correct… it’s is interesting to think about. Not just from the view of meanings of words, but the view an architect may see it.

            Things to think about.

          • Hi Seeker. I practiced commercial/institutional architecture on the east coast for 25 years. Hasn’t helped me one bit in finding the “right angle” to the TC’s location. At least, not yet.

            Maybe I should change my name to “StillMakingPlans”.

          • I agree with that. I think he put a lot of thought into it and considered all the angles.

            I just perk up whenever someone says “confirmation” 🙂

            If there’s something definitive in any of the Chase material, someone would have to point that out to me. I haven’t seen anything that can’t be taken to mean a dozen other things.

          • seeker I find that the poem is never ending you can change the stanza any way you want and the concept stays the same imo

          • Mustang,
            Lets go with any the word… synonyms are the first thing that come to mind. Fenn himself has given examples of this… The word admire… where he explained he wouldn’t use that word, but if he twist it a bit, one meaning in high regards, he can make it work. { I think the other word use was respect }.

            Now if we read the poem as clues needed to be understood… twisting words … seems to be fair game. One example is creek, which we all know as water… but if we use it by alternate definitions or even synonyms, we could see this as a narrow passage… which may not involve water at all. or WWH as nothing to do wit water or a change in it state, such as Ice. which can give the poem legs for a new reading other than directional. or even directional with a different look.

            If we read the reporters quotes, hope that there accurate… can angle mean something other than just the words in the poem. Some searcher have used the weight of the chest… 42.. to mean angle of sunlight for a rainbow affect or 42 as degrees…either temperature or compass. Why not look at the information placed in front of us… the poem… at a different angle? A map, maybe.

            What is straightforwards, if twisting and ‘bending’ is possible? I have looked at the poem with all the words as synonyms usage… talk about difficult, yet still not impossible. fenn did warn us that he bend words, uses words not in the dictionary, and makes up words… preface of the book, not after the fact comments or reporters misquotes.

            The only fact I know [ personally ] is we can twist the facts, not unlike a poem itself. The example of creek seems to lean to just that.

      • Chad,
        I would not discount anything; Just my opinion…I have read this reporters stories before in relation to other activities and like her style. There are some inconsistencies in the facts as we know them. Let’s see if you can find those.

        • I realize that stories often deviate from the facts.
          This I believe is human nature. Whether it is due to missed information of an embellishment. At the moment I am doing my best to stay focused on answering replies. So if you could please point out what I am missing.


  58. Could Forrest’s mentions of marbles in his book, be a subtle hint of wwwh?

    • One of the byproducts of mining yellow cake uranium is an abrasive that was used in commercial polishing.

  59. Good morning to all,
    Spring is here in southern Ohio and blessing us with the early morning chatter of Robins, crows and the never ending battle for dominance from geese and ducks around our 1 acre pond in the back yard, all the while being held captive in my heavy equipment repair shop of now 16 years trying to satisfy everyone in the last minute decision to repair what should have been done months before their decision to start breaking ground on a project next week!
    We have all been held captive by old man winter and the possibility of where warm waters halt, to overlook a very important part of the chain? So busy running off another would be nesting pair, to realize their are so many great spots to start, but only one that will be successful in the attempt.
    To make this short before someone digs a hole for (me) with One of only a few machines I have ready to go, Forrest has said many times over if we know where to start! Begin it where, seems to be what everyone wants it to be, but my opinion is that until we know what or who (I) is referring too, we are waisting our time worrying about Warm water at that point?
    Just because he wrote the poem and book does not mean he is referring to himself in the realm of it at all?
    I’m sorry, I have to go, another hopeful pair have come in and are making a mess of my back yard all while a customer of a machine in the shop seeing me run around in my back yard like I’m crazy!

    • I think I know who FF is referring to when he says “I”. And, no I don’t think it is himself. I also believe I have uncovered what “it” is. I figured out both (assuming I figured right) by finding the key word/word that is key, studying the local history of the area of my search, and doing a larger study of the surrounding area to understand legends, stories, histories tied to the area. Yes, I did find the spot I’m currently searching using only the poem and the map. But, in order to accurately understand the area, it always is useful to do your homework. I have stated before that I do not think the lines in the poem are as disconnected as they seem at first. I think it is very cohesive, if you can understand how the various phrases work together. I also think knowing where to start or start at the beginning is a huge hint, bigger than most realize. I considered the Continental Divide, rain shadow of the Rockies, temperatures, ice, freezing, springs, geysers, seasonal creeks, and various other options for WWWH. I currently have a different solution that does not involve any of those things. Waiting on warmer weather!

      • Now I am puzzled,
        “…studying the local history of the area of my search, and doing a larger study of the surrounding area to understand legends, stories, histories tied to the area”

        I mean geez, who [on here] thinks that’ll work?

        • @theycallme9clues – I actually do, and I’ve found comments from you in Jan 2015 on Minerva / Hercules and warm water referencing John Bell, so perhaps you do, too. I am looking at Puzzled’s hints, and maybe they are onto it and maybe not. Puzzled seems intentionally vague (for clear reasons), whereas I will gladly share my reasoning.

          The approach I promote at the moment is to look at Herodotus’ The Histories, specifically how the nine books / muses (muse is another word for ‘why didn’t i think of that’) tend to follow TTOTC and the poem with lots of hints from Scrapbooks, and then apply the stories within to local Mammoth Hot Springs locations.

          For example:
          1) Clio is of history and books, connecting to Important Literature, connecting to riches new and old… the arrowhead he found and the logo of the NPS… potentially connecting me to his love of Yellowstone…

          2) Euterpe is the lyre, like the Fechin painting in “Blue Jeans and Hush Puppies Again”, the Labyrinth and F’s Minox camera, the mad alligator remark, the Phrygians, Persia and Fars Providence (not one far but several), Egyptian kings like Cheops… potentially connecting me to Mammoth Hot Springs and terrace names like Liberty Cap, Cheops, Esplanade, Silver/Golden Gate…

          3) Thalia (comedy, short poems, rustic life) –> Magi, gypsies dancing… meh.

          I guess I could keep going, but no one reads this tripe.

          • Hi Jeff- yes I am being vague on purpose. But I will tell you that I firmly believe that “begin it where warm water halts” and “the best place to start is at the beginning” are two phrasthat mean the same thing. I believe “WWWH” = “the best place to start is at the beginning” . The answer is the same.

  60. Those gorgeous mallards come for short swims in my pool every spring. I wish they could stay, but my dog sez a loud “no!”

  61. Chad thanks for sharing:


    You, myself and many others who have given serious thought to a belief that because the 9 clues are in order, ie contiguous, and lead you closer with each correct solve and since even before the “little girl in India quote”, who can only solve the first two, it is easy, apparent even obvious that some searchers try to overthink this relatively simple explanation wwwh as repeated and seen in this article, exactly quoting what I and others have been saying for about 4 years.

    It is puzzling to me that searchers even after ff has said that there are many places where WWWH and he ruled out a dam and he did not say where HOT waters Halt in the poem, why do so many seem or need to constantly be reinventing the wheel!

    The first clues are in the beginning of the poem are they not?

    After all ff freely admits that some searchers have solved those same first two clues!

    So logic tells us once we allow the uncomplicated simple idea (don’t overthink) that WWWH is either clue one or two, but my money is on #1 since that usually pays better, and it is preceded by “BEGIN IT” then if you believe like me clue #2 is Canyon? Our problem revolves to solving which canyon, and there is the First Rub. Unless it’s descript word down means South, after all one definition for canyon and two for down? So not far (but too far to walk) so walk from WHERE? Second Rub, is it (far) from where WW Halt or could ff mean another place, could it be riches new and old? I say sounds like antiques, relics and other precious and modern treasures the synonyms for that are as numerous as the ones for a blaze. So again let’s keep it simple WWWH.

    Now does that seems to answer the question that we need to be asking?

    Recently, Frank posted words that I have agreed with, he extolled the idea that the blaze since it seems to stump everyone like HOB might just be a synonym for “place” well kudos to Frank I have felt it was a place or the trail ie a path and since it is preceded by “heavy loads and water high , and WISE then once you are past heavy loads at water high accept that you are on/at the blaze (place) and look quickly down. If this all seems a little steep (pun intended) then try quest to cease and game over, ie halt, bring or come to an end, stop, conclude, terminate, finish, draw to a close, be over, discontinue, suspend, break off;

    That is what makes this poem so difficult definitions grow in size with each new clue and even the descript words have endless synonyms: think of put in and HOB, these clues may be in order, even contiguous, but that is only the tip of the iceberg as you explore the possibilities which explode exponentially so that said I can see why those first clues are known but quantify too far to walk etc.

    The final ff conformations near the end seem easy, and the cold brave wood could be in another language, fenn speak, is it not?

    I am confused enough for one afternoon..

    Tom T

    PS at least give me laugh, a smiley face and the HOB.

  62. Just a few possible places for warm water to halt, 32deg. 212deg. -459.67deg. -273.15 deg. 173 deg. Alcohol separates from water,hotsprings,tub, basin, bath,sink,drain, septic,steam,condensation,cumulus, nimbus clouds,evaporation,hotwater radiator, Rankin cycle, tears, saliva, winter,jail, prison, courthouse,snow,ice,deep water, thermocline, belly, river, stream, Creek, draw, and the list goes on!
    Have you ever questioned why the word (As) was added? Why was that one word added, knowing the following tells us that it was more than one time travelled?
    The starting point is in the first stanza, IMO, and we tend to want to begin it, in the wrong place? I’ve logged over 20000 miles of travel and a portion of the treasures value, to realize that I started at the wrong, right starting place. Even though Conundrum hotsprings happen to be the highest hotsprings in the US and flowed out and down past the Home of D.R.C. Brown’s world famous ski resort in Aspen Colorado. The area being the highest price property and the rich go there to play and own vacation property, was just the wrong Rich’s new and old to connect with, or perhaps I was one that passed by the other seven clues and had no clue?
    Downtown Aspen was definitely no place for the meek, or the poor, but if you get a chance, stop in the rib house it’s worth the trip. You can’t miss it, the best ribs in the Rockies, with a bear on the roof!

    • Kelly w/ situational awareness,

      What do think the odds are that f hid the chest a short walk from the Maroon Bells parking area?
      Too obvious maybe, be a shame for the place to get all ripped up.

      • I cannot say for certain that it is not , however many hours have been spent in the area of that as well! Marron does translate to brown, and the area is a treasure in itself, most photographed area.
        We did however cause a huge traffic jam on the road up to the bells area, right past the sign for the area I spotted a bear and her cub at the base of the hill! We were the only ones there at the time, but that soon changed when all the tour busses, cars,bicycles and locals that had never seen a bear in the area in their lifetime, decided to stop and get an eye full!
        I can say now, it didn’t smell right!

        • Sorry I forgot but coffee pot and teapot were a few at the top of the list and can’t forget stinkpot, that the little fellers came up with lol.
          Marron Bells had been in the back of my mind many times, for the mention of Forrest’s Bell he had casted.
          Marble Colorado had at one time been an area of great importance. If for nothing more than the connection with Rich’s new and old and the fact that a treasure had been buried their many years ago and never recovered. Treasure mountain is named for that reason!

  63. The history channel ran a show not long ago that had a great deal of info regarding, of all things, warm waters of the East!
    All being in reference to what was called the black blizzard and the effects of the warm waters of the East side of the Rockies meeting with the cooler waters of the West and the resulting effects it played in those hard times of survival.
    I found it odd that it happened to appear while I had been studying more on the affects of water and it’s resulting effects it has and has had on mankind.
    I have to say, I am now, a little unrest if you will. I do not see the wild west as I did before hand? I have pryed the truth from the raging rivers and streams. I have fished the waters that would not have existed, had it not been for man’s demanding need for its moistening nourishment. I have witnessed the ditches and tunnels man has created to alter it’s natural path, to ultimately change mother nature’s plan.
    Not Farr, but two Farr, has changed the ending result, with the Farr pump house.
    The Big Thomson water projects ultimately save a life, when Nathan Meeker wanted Farr to join him in an effort to start a farming area farther west and tame the Native Americans. Farr’s life had been saved for the lack of funds for a horse! The Meeker massacre ended Nathan’s dream.
    Let’s not ponder with the bad, but rejoise with its bounty, the trout are delicious, regardless of its coarse!
    I’ve learned that fording a mountain stream in August can have the same effect of anastetic for amputation!
    Rainbow trout play dead, better than a good dog trick, when released.
    Every beautiful summer day in the higher elevations will result in rain and hail you can’t escape.
    Climbing the ladder to success in the Rockies, is a long way up
    Leaving 1000 ft elevation, flying to 5000 ft, driving to 8000 ft and climbing to over 10000ft in same day is a little much.
    The most exciting of all, I know for a fact, I’ve been closer to the treasure, than I am now!
    Hope it has helped, from Ohio!

    • I had never heard of Mr Farr or The Big Thompson water project. That is very interesting. I was thinking recently that WWWH sounds very much like ‘where warm water’s (water is) hauled’ but I was unaware of any large body of water being hauled anywhere. Apparently this Big Thompson water project “collected and then diverted ‘hauled’ West slope mountain water from the headwaters of the Colorado River” (wikipedia) to the Rocky Mountain Front and Plains areas. Hmmm- interesting.

      • Your thinking on that subject is correct. It started in the 1800’s with the Grand ditch, diverting water from the West side to the east, Front range area. Grand lake is the collection area and water is pumped to Estes Park area, the primary tunnel, Adams, is 13.1 miles long, started from both ends and met in the middle, with unbelievable accuracy for its time.
        Grand ditch is more so at the headwaters of the Colorado river area. At one time the ditch breached its banks and left a lasting scar. If you follow the path of Adams tunnel, from Grand lake to Mary’s lake you will find some very interesting things, one being Mt. Cairns. A cairn is a Blaze! A line drawn from one lake to the other will cross an area with a street name of Trailblazer?
        Good luck

    • Thanks for the link, I’ll add it to the similar pages I have of the project.
      I will add a yielding bit if info, fishing in Pinewood reservoir is good at the tunnel entrance across the dam! Rainbows and Browns! So much as to draw attention from locals of the area to take pictures of a Brown I had caught?
      Forrest Fenn is carrying on his dad’s passion of education.
      Good luck
      Now, if only my wife could write a poem for me to solve the reason she’s mad?
      Your efforts will be worth the ( her cold shoulder).

  64. Here is a copy/pasted list of historic one room school houses specific to Colorado. (Forrest had once said that Father would make a special side stop to one while on the family’s road trips from Temple, TX to/from* Yellowstone.

    Battlement Mesa Schoolhouse ~ Garfield Cty.
    Cardiff School ~ Glenwood Springs
    Dillion School ~ Dillion
    1875 Independence School ~ Fort Lupton
    Fairview School ~ Gunnison County
    Florissant Schoolhouse Museum ~ Florissant
    Hilltop School ~ Parker
    Indian Park School ~ Sedalia
    Littleton School District No. 6 ~ Littleton
    Lone Tree School ~ Loveland
    Maysville Schoolhouse ~ Maysville
    Montezuma Schoolhouse ~ Montezuma
    Ohio City School ~ Ohio City (scroll down)
    Peach Valley Schoolhouse ~ New Castle
    Pinewood Schoolhouse ~ Loveland
    Poncha Springs School ~ Poncha Springs
    Sand Creek School House ~ Cedaredge
    Sedalia School ~ Sedalia
    Spencer School ~ Spencer
    ​Star School ~ McClave

    Couldn’t hurt to locate one that might be connected/ *nearest to locations in the above link??


  65. Please stay on topic. We will begin tossing comments that are off topic in an effort to keep comments relevant. Please do not use this blog like Facebook. Stay on topic. Thanks…

    This page is for thoughts about WWWH…

  66. Sure is a nice place to bathe.
    Didn’t read any signs or literature handed to me at the gate.
    Just knew I had to take a dip or few.
    Ojo, may be where warm waters halt & begin.
    I guess it depends on your point of view.
    That’s my point of view.

  67. Just out of the box thoughts on WWWH – War Arms/fire arms halt life or the warm water in a human body. Firearms wing of Buffalo Bill Center for The West halts at the Western Art wing of the museum. Artist’s oil paints are mixed with ‘spririts’ (linseed oil; turpentine) which halt on canvas as they dry. Perhaps there is a painting referencing gold, or golden light which leads to the treasure. Thomas Moran’s Golden Gate of Yellowstone could be one example. Each artist like Thomas Moran is catalogued by the museum with a designated number (i.e., Moran 32, Bierstadt 66, CMRussel 454). Additionally, Joseph H Sharps cabin w/o water is located adjacent the firearms and western art buildings. Trying to determine if ff intended clues in the on-line art collection or perhaps a certain painting. Recal that Forrest said he planned it just short of the final Bier. Just short of the last Bierstadt painting? Any thoughts?

  68. Here I am bathing near Ojo. But I can only stay here for a bit, see there are way to many tourists here now & need to put my clothes back on & take it in the only canyon down. There’s no page for, “Take it in the canyon down” so I will have to skip to Not fa but too far to walk. I guess I will drive to the home of Brown & put in there.

      • Only in spirit Dal.
        I was laying out a path to the pages that exist here from the end (hidey spot) to the beginning (WWWH), back to the end. Ojo was my first stop after the last of course. Would be nice to add some more pages that relate with the lines or words in the poem.

  69. First post (for me)!

    I’ve been reading the comments here and researching at home for some time now (since I don’t live near the Rockies).

    I think that wwwh has to be a reasonably specific place and not a wide area or linear feature. When I first read the poem I couldn’t help but think of, as many have, about hot springs and dams and everything else that have been brought up a million times. Then I read a few people that hypothesized some kind of linear feature like the continental divide or the freeze line. The linear feature idea is attractive, in a way but none of the follow on clues really isolate an intersection unless you are talking about any canyon that intersects your linear feature. That seems a bit far-fetched for me.

    However, F himself has said that there are many places where warm waters halt. Aside from being another ding on the linear feature idea, to me that says that wwwh is not a single feature, but one that is (relatively) common in the Rockies. There isn’t one wwwh, there are many wwwhs. So F seems to be telling us *his concept* of wwwh is specific in the same sense that you could say “begin it in the lake.”

    So which of the many wwwhs the poem refers to can only make sense in conjunction with the rest of the clues in the poem. At some wwwh, one can take it in the canyon down and yadda yadda yadda. Thus you can’t determine where to start just by figuring out wwwh because the wwwh concept is a generalized one.

    So the key, imho, is to figure out what kind of feature that is relatively common (or at least not ultra rare) in the Rockies that you could communicate to others with the phrase wwwh.

    Thus I think that Dal’s Gibbon/Firefox intersection is probably wrong because that interpretation of “halt” seems specific to that single location. There isn’t another wwwh in the Rockies that fits that interpretation, right?

    So recap on my conception of wwwh:
    1. A point location
    2. Several wwwh locations exist in the Rockies

    Given my thoughts on the features of my conception of wwwh (and only now getting to the actual words) I think that wwwh must be a place where at least two rivers or streams join together where the water ceases to appreciably flow. I don’t know what F means by warm. I don’t know what he mean’s by halt, either. Perhaps this location is where the water pools into a lake? Perhaps this location is where the water freezes (but I don’t know why that would happen at a single point)?

    • Hello Joe,

      Welcome to the inigma. Because I am a fellow Hoosier I will through you a bone. Look at the cheat sheet. It says WWWH is not a dam. Although I feel this is true, IMO and only IMO I feel there may be a discrepancy in the cheat sheet( will not say what) and no that does not mean go digging up gravesites. My best advice to you if you have not done it is order both TTOTC and TFTW if you like what Forrest stands for you will enjoy them, but be ready to pay a premium, Fenn spared no expense. LOL! Up to par on who I am. When I first introduced myself to this website I stated I feel I have a solve but, I will not comment on that so please do not ask. Please do take my advice that I have given you here though… Good luck and welcome to the chase!!

      • Hi ACE,

        Yeah, I know it’s not a dam, that was just one of the first thoughts I had, like many others.

        I do need to pick up the books. It would be hard to figure out what F means by wwwh without knowing a bit more about the man. 🙂

    • Just for fun, look up this ‘halt’.. Cabresto Lake NM. You will have to translate Cabresto yourself

      • This kind of goes back to my point about Dal’s wwwh being a play on words, so to speak. If “halt” refers to the name of the intersection of the warm waters then Cabresto could fit the bill. But are there many cabresto lakes in the Rockies? Or at least, are there other names of lakes that, similar to cabresto, can be translated to mean halt? I admit that it is possible, but it doesn’t seem likely.

        If wwwh is a play on words, I think it is unlikely to be a play on the actual name of the feature.

    • Hey Joe….”where you goin’ with that gun in your hand?”


      Good thinking sir…and may I be one of many to welcome you aboard.

      You’ve brought up some good insights – namely….”F himself has said that there are many places where warm waters halt.”
      – I agree. And I also agree that it is a specific place that is also duplicated throughout the Rockies.
      – That is why I still firmly believe – WWWH – is actually ” the edge of civilization”…..I think it is a lodging site, a campsite, or motor lodge of sorts…..all fit WWWH….and also fits….”that there are many places where warm waters halt.”
      – It would be a common phrase for a wilderness/adventurer to use when out and about in the “meek” of the forest.

      Tim: Hey Joe, you heading out to seek FF’s treasure?
      Joe: Yep – heading out tomorrow.
      Tim: You know you need to begin it where WWWH, right?
      Joe: Yep….leaving the lodge now. No warm water for me for the next three days.

      You know what I mean?

      Also – and not by any means to sound disprespectful, because I am not trying to be at all – but I am saying that your thinking is sort of vague – and not to mention very difficult to decipher.

      Fenn said to keep it simple…..linear features to me, are not…..but in a positive manner…..your thinking actually puts an additional focus upon “my thinking” and allows one to continue with the poem’s clue. In fact, if you were to use this thinking, then then other clues do fall into place.

      I also realize that this idea/suggestion may be a hard sell to others…..but by utilizing this method…..well, I’ve actually have come to some locations that can be accessed by using the clues – if followed after the beginning clue of “WWWH”.

      Again, this statement by Forrest is an important one….and should be remembered.

      Thanks for posting.

      • Vague, haha. Yeah, I tend to think in meta analysis of puzzles.

        Linear features are definitely more complicated and unwieldy to sort out, which is why I’ve dismissed them.

        I like your reading of wwwh as a campsite or lodge. I have no idea if it’s correct, of course, but I think that wwwh could be that *kind* of play on words.

        It certainly fits with my conceptual thoughts about the nature of wwwh. But does it fit with F’s? Aye, there’s the rub…

    • Warm is warm and halt is stop. Not blend. One thing, it Could be a cooling pond for a power station

      • But something can be warm in different ways. Many people here have discussed how all flowing water is warm, that trout waters are designated as warm, and that warm can be relative to something else (the human body, to the average for the season, &c.). So yeah, warm is warm, but which warm does F mean? I can’t think of a principled reason why any of the above definitions are wrong so I can’t logically cross them off the list of possibilities.

        It *could* be blend though. Water stops being warm water when it changes temperature. I think reading it as blend is a logical plain-English interpretation. But I actually agree with you that it is unlikely to be where waters mix. It doesn’t seem, to me, personally, to fit with the feel of the words. But I can’t say that advocates of the mix interpretation are wrong…

        • And d that is why you must understand the first stanza and the word that is key or you are just guessing.

  70. So here is my thought I came up with tonight. What I have found in the Poem and there meaning is really out there. I thought I have figured the line” Begin it where warm waters halt”. The words just didn’t fit like the rest of the Poem. Then something just imbued my thoughts deeper about the line “Begin it where warm waters halt”. It seems that it means” To live again”. Strange as it sounds, it fits.
    What do you think?

    • Every Year, Snows melt
      And wet muds ooze all over
      Think it over soon

      Gene, it’s a fantastic idea. I can see how it might relate to birth, is that what you mean?


      • Astree, I am still thinking about what I have come up with. It is an avenue one would take. Now I am thinking could this be another painting in the Poem and could there be a third? I need time to think.

      • Geydelkon,

        I looked at the avenue angle for a while, including the double-play on ‘ave’. I still remember the picture you posted several years ago, on your Scout(?) in the driveway, holding up a treasure chest.

        Good luck, any more videos in the works?

        • AH, I remember that photo. It is a chest my wife got me for Christmas. I since sold my bike because of accidental health issues. Anyway, I do have several videos going on in the mix. I have to contact Sony records to use a song as background music.
          Now with my recent thought , I am looking through thousands of pictures in my library for this painting. Heck, I may of found it on Ebay. I do search the site for hints. I spend a lot of time there and the Library of Congress. It gets rough at times.

          “Begin it where warm waters halt
          And take it in the canyon down,
          Not far, but too far to walk.”

          After much thought this morning. This Stanza of words, IMO, has to do with another painting. I went looking for the artist and the painting. I have a vivid picture in my mind of what it looks like and I found one but it is not in public view. Fascinating , just fascinating.

          “Another painting” Yes, in the Poem it talks about another paint in which I found and seen it with my own eyes. It took me some time and a lot of hair pulling to figure that one out.

    • “to live again”? I’m not following the way you arrived at that definition. Can you explain what you mean? I don’t believe that is what it means but I’m curious

  71. Some recent suggestions re: “WWWH” … (1) where at least two rivers or streams join together”; (2) implication of cemetery; (3) a specific place that is … duplicated throughout the Rockies; (4) lodging site / motor lodge; (5) “to live again”.

    Not trying to be negative here; just a critique that might be helpful … I don’t see how any of the above suggestions would help a searcher. There are billions and billions of >>> streams that join together, cemeteries, places that are “duplicated” in the Rockies, lodges (camping and motor). And I don’t know what geographic place one is referring to when using the phrase “to live again”.

    Maybe we need to go back to the pronunciation of “waters halt”. You get “salt water” when pronounced a bit differently. There is a range of mountains in Wyoming related to “Salt River”. In this context, “many places” WWWH would equate to … mountains, or mountain ranges. The “Salt River” area in Wyoming would at least give a searcher a definite starting point, though I must confess that the Salt River interpretation is the interpretation of a few other searchers. My solution for WWWH is very different.


    • I think that when you grasp the hints in stanza 1, you will have these questions answered. Do you really know what stanza 1 is trying to say?

    • Interesting interpretation, re: salt water. I must, respectfully, disagree completely. The thing about interpretation is (sounds like a set up for a joke) is that you can interpret something to mean anything. The salt water interpretation isn’t wrong, per se, like so many other interpretations people have come up with aren’t wrong, per se. But it doesn’t seem like a likely interpretation. I’m not at all saying I know F’s mind, but achieving that knowledge is really the goal to interpreting it correctly and I don’t think that slurring one’s words is the kind of clue that F would convey to searchers.

      F wants people to go outside and enjoy the Rockies. Each of his clues seems directed at some particular aspect of the Rockies that strikes him, somehow. And while its clear that he enjoys playing with words in a conventional way (colorful language, allusions, rhyme and meter, possibly puns, probably circumlocution) there doesn’t seem to be any indication at all that he trucks with the kind of phonological manipulation that is common in hip hop. So I think the “water salt,” idea, while not impossible, is highly improbable of being correct.

      To me, a lot of those kinds of interpretations seem like stabs in the dark, rather than a principled approach to reading the poem. So my ideas above may not narrow down the search a lot, but I do think those principles are correct and do eliminate many of the more “out there” interpretations, which is helpful to fellow searchers. But the interpretation is incomplete, so naturally it doesn’t get you all the way there.

      • Oh ok Indiana Joe… Are you saying Forrest listens to Hip Hop? You kinda lost me with all the big words… Thanks for some new words for the day… Incase anybody else is wondering here are some definitions below… or is it just me 🙂

        the use of many words where fewer would do, especially in a deliberate attempt to be vague or evasive.

        Phonological awareness refers to an individual’s awareness of the phonological structure, or sound structure, of words. Phonological awareness is an important and reliable predictor of later reading ability and has, therefore, been the focus of much research.

        • Ah, sorry for the big words, I’m not trying to make it more difficult.

          I don’t know, of course, but I think it is highly unlikely that F listens to hip hop which is why I think it would be strange for him to use lyrical techniques that are common in hip hop but uncommon outside of it.

      • What we do know is that WWWH is a specific place that FF is specifically referring to. Where this place is, is a big key to the rest of the solve.

        • While I am currently working through three different solves in three different locations, I suspect that 65,000 plus searchers (that is the number I have read) just are missing something in the first clue. I have 3 solves that all sound reasonable about WWWH. But whether they work out remains to be seen. I suspect we aren’t interpreting WWWH correctly or one of us would have the TC. I believe strongly that a Thesaurus and a dictionary are essential in the correct solve. The word “treasure” comes from the word “thesaurus” and I believe at least some of the hints are hidden there. The clue “WWWH” is only half a clue in my opinion. I think it’s a word that can be better understood in the thesaurus or dictionary and should be combined I some way with “take it in the canyon down”. Don’t mean to offend anyone whose ideas could be more correct than mine. But, I don’t see how strategically searching every hot spring, or river can help. Understanding the poem should take us to the correct start location confidently.

          I have wondered periodically if WWWH could mean “halt” as in “lame” (Donnie’s broken stirrup story). Could it be as simple as Cripple Creek? I know people have looked in that area, but did they understand the clue?

          Where ever WWH is, I believe the poem narrows down the location for us and I believe we do not understand the whole clue

    • I really believe that I finally figured out “I”; “As I have gone alone in there”, and, “I can keep my treasures where”. Then suddenly the entire poem seems easy to understand and straight forward. I believe that understanding “I” puts the poem into the correct perspective. I’m trying to work through a couple more details.

      • C’mon Puzzled, we all know “I” mean fenn… Why in the world would you think its someone else or something else? This abstract thinking will only lead down the rabbit whole… the poem is only a map to be paced out, and all we need is a good/correct map to throw darts at.

        LOL … I kill me.

        • If the finder has to follow the same foot steps as Fenn, couldn’t “I” be the Finder and Fenn at different prospective?

          When I studied the word “as” it lead me to believe that’s a possibility.

          Could some of the poem be about the finder and some about Fenn?

          • Wouldn’t that be after the fact? You said,”If the finder has to follow the same foot steps as Fenn, couldn’t “I” be the Finder and Fenn at different prospective?”
            I’m curious on what perspective you are thinking… time maybe?

            As far as ‘AS’ is concerned, I wondered why the poem didn’t start as… As I’ve gone alone in there.

            The use of there’ll, you’ve, I’ve [ later on in the poem ] and why not … If ‘you’re’ brave and in the wood.
            Again, it seems we’re back to word choice and placement.

            “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them.”

            Prior to this above comment… [ which is only part of a Q&A ]. I considered the possibility of word counts… either by line or stanza. Example; first line in the poem has 7 words. If ‘I’ve’ was used in-place of ‘I have’… would that change the count?

          • It could also be the finder, but I don’t see how that would clarify things. I believe I know who/what the double meaning of “I” is and it clarifies everything.

          • Yes, the prospective I speak of is time. Other things Fenn has said makes me speculate this. If you have to follow the clues precisely and if there is a clue in stanza one then could it be looked at both ways? Fenn and the finder as “I”? I’ve become a firm believer that the place he went into in stanza 1 is a clue. This may just be a way that I see layers in the poem like others do. It’s also plausible that with the past, present, and future tense that time is a factor within the poem, but how does that have to do with real life? Most of my solves have time as a factor to understand the poem and with these prospectives it may help to understand time easyer within the poem.

          • The Count- You asked, “but how does that have to do with real life” Are you asking how time helps you solve the poem? If you were looking at the same subject I am for “I”, you would have that answer already.

        • Seeker- I really can’the decide if you are being sarcastic or serious. No rabbit holes here and I refuse to throw darts at the map. If it was as simple as. “canyon down”, “home of Brown”, etc ., then one of the 65,000 plus searchers would have found the TC by now. Yes, I think we all agree that “I” is Fenn, but there is a double meaning to “I”. Understanding that does not create a rabbit hole. It brings into focus the location to search. It clarifies things. (IMO). Without it, you might as well throw your darts at a map. You posted recently that “you must be someplace, a higher distant point”, “a place that will lead you directly to the correct WWH”. You also talked about a “what if factor we should ask” So I’m saying that understanding who/what the double meaning of “I” is becomes your “what if factor”. It gives you the correct perspective that will lead you to see the correct WWWH so you can stop throwing darts and can make sense out of the clues. I think it clarifies “WWWH, “canyon down” “too far to walk” “put in below the home of Brown”, “no paddle up yore creek”, “end ever drawing nigh”, “no place for meek”, etc, etc. I also think it fits the hints and answers Fenn gives in his interviews. Don’t have the TC yet, but I think I am seeing more clearly.

          • I was havin some fun with you Puzzled.

            I’ve been preaching who is “i” and multiple meanings back in 2013 [ just ask loco, he loves the topic…lol].

            I think somewhere, hidden is the far reaches of this blog’s memory lane, I posted something about just that.
            So I’ma pickin up whatcha putin down.

            I’m more than curious to hear your thoughts. Please excuse my dry, sarcastic, warp sense of humor. Every time I post, I picture Goofy’s hand hovering over the little red button and mumbling… ‘One of these days Seeker…poof!’

      • Hi Puzzled

        I can keep my SECRET where? Hole-and-corner (Backdoor, camouflaged, deep, underground) SYNONYMS

        It doesn’t prove anything though – we add things up the way we want to see them. Just like I selected synonyms that I thought would fit with my secret. Still doesn’t prove much. I guess there is a line that someone’s gotta cross. I intend to run out the clock (don’t ask its a secret) Good Luck! Leading horses to water is an exhausting process, if you lead one in a lifetime its a miracle I KNOW. Sometimes its just better to pack it in and fold.

        • One other thing I find funny about this chase is SIGNIFICANCE. It is after all called the THRILL of the chase but so anyway you’ll find and object, imaginary of course (that you think means something) Butt when you show it to another person they’re like man your going nuts and then your thinking I’m Miles in the Outdoor mag story. And more than likely you are but again its about the thrill 🙂 Peece out!

          Sorry I’m rambling this is the warm water thread…..I think it has to do with contained water…..:) see how that worked 🙂 vague….but I said something 🙂

          • Haha hello Sunny Day,
            Yes the journey is real. IMO. Only one solve is the correct one but what I am impressed with is how many ways that searchers have come up with their own way to see the poem. Most are beautiful and even if wrong it does not make them nuts. It just shows that they have a yearning for a greater cause. I too have a solve and feel it is wonderful and poetic and although I can show them(family only) my solve that I feel is spot on they just blow it off( my wife is somewhat on board unfortunately much of it is the stand by your man feeling). Now they know how solid of a mind I have but cannot get onboard for this whole idea. See Forrest is eccentric very eccentric and for them to think that someone could do this is let’s say way beyond the norm. I don’t get their thought process. They would not have a problem seeing it in a movie somewhere, so why not in reality? They all for the most part believe that Forrest did hide a chest. So what is the problem here? Well it must be me right and the fact that how can you know where it truly is and you haven’t even left the will say couch so to speak? Many of the searchers on this site are like me. We love to analyze then re-analyze. In a way we are like family and right or wrong we have a place here to fit in. One day someone will retrieve this chest hopefully that will at least calm all the naysayers that gave you or anyone a hard time for taking someone’s (f) idea and running with it. Welcome home Sunny Day


    • Sorta both, cold and hot. This is one of the mysterious indefinite definitions that Fenn hides in there, in plain sight. Warm feels different to each person, and is just a general statement when describing something. It is basically the definition of hot and cold if they had a baby.. the goldilocks zone, or “the middle”.. Everything should be/is based off of hunches, and opinions. So I am guessing that all the angles should work with each word/phrase/line of the poem. That is the best way to hide something. Blindly in front of people’s faces. lol ..

  72. I took a rafting trip down the Grand Canyon about 20 years ago. The water was really cold (45 deg F) all the way down. We stopped at the Little Colorado, water was (65 deg F). It felt like a sauna. I’m adding rivers that are Dam Controlled, intersecting with other rivers to my possible WWWH start locations.

  73. So if a river flows north and south, can someone tell me on the northern end of that river where it hits the cold water, can warm waters halt there.

    • Are you thinking of a line where waters change from warm to cold because of the latitude?
      No, it doesn’t work that way. The local weather patterns can be quite different across the same latitude because of winds and weather patterns.
      Also, the waters wouldn’t change from warm to cold as they flowed north in much of a hurry, unless they drained into a basin where they cooled first.

      As an example, the Uncompahgre River in Colorado (name comes from the warm springs that form the river) starts out warmer, but when it hits a reservoir it turns colder (either in Ouray or Ridgeway, I forget which). That river flows northward, by the way.

    • Kelly: I know exactly what you’re talking about and yes, if you are walking upstream along the bank of a warm water river (creek), eventually the warm waters will halt.

  74. Do warm water halts at the trout waters? A boundary of regulations. With the list of Trout Waters; it seems voluminous to decipher which river or stream fits the solve. And we all know “Warm” waters do not exist in the Rockies, unless of course your seeking out the Hot Springs; however IMO, that alone would be another voluminous search. With that in mind: I am leaning more toward the Border Line “Biddies” comment, and will find a delineation of the meaning.

    • Hi Ravi…you thinking is actually good because it rules out the rivers as a starting point. IMO – it is just to obvious of a starting point. And considering FF has ruled stated “ask a child where warm waters halt?”.,..and I would be one to wager that they have no idea of where warm waters halt except for these answers…home bathroom….if our in the “wild” then they may answer with…”uhm, where we are staying”…knowing the only warm waters to them comes from a faucet. This point actually now solidifies my thinking that FF is talking about a place where he stayed as in a lodge, campsite, motel, our house.

      Taking a guess on he doesn’t have any houses in CO, WY, you could actually make a good point to rule out those two states as starting points., but not force be other “places” he may have stated at.

      I think complexity is what the poem is, but if one pauses upon the grammar and what FF actually said, you can extrapolate many additional details to discover the meaning of the clues.

      I thank you for the help….though you may not have known it.

      But do think about this strategy and see how, it works. Keep in mind what FF actually said….not what he may have said.

      I think he truly wants someone to find it…and find it I shall. Remember…it is difficult…NOT impossible…meaning it is solvable. I hope I am wise enough as a man who learned life by living it and not through many years of books. A simple man who created a simple poem to hide something in plain sight…or high grass….*winks*….as we all know we can only stumble upon those special treasures by chance as he did with the gravestones.

      But are we just stumbling around in high grass or walking in confidence?

      Good luck D. I hope you don’t beat me too it!! :op

      • Tim,

        You said; . IMO – it is just to obvious of a starting point. And considering FF has ruled stated “ask a child where warm waters halt?”…

        I have not heard this quote, I have heard show the poem to a child that has been going around, but I believe fenn corrected that as a searcher saying it and not him. Do you have reference for that quote above?

        • After looking at other comments, I seem to be wrong….as it seems to be the consensus that it was “show the child the poem”…..but even with these words, one would still be required to receive some answer.

          IMO – a child is not smart enough to decipher the poem at all – as it is much too difficult for them – but of course I could be stereotyping children incorrectly.

          Whatever the case may be, eve with showing the poem to the child, one would still be waiting for a response, and with me stating< "ask a child" and "show a child"….are similar, as the result of the action will still be the same – one hopes that a child would be able to determine WWWH.

          "edge of civilization" is still the most logical choice of answers a child would reply with.

          I was incorrect with the word choice, but the result would still be the same.

          :o) Good catch Seeker!

          Thanks and good luck to you!

  75. IMO….The FLY WATER story and Bessies tail as a FLY SWATTER and the story of Skippy as the GENERAL “electric”, and Skippies electric fly swatter all tie in together. IMO , it’s where warm WATTERS halt. Take Kit in the canyon down. Kit Carson is the main electric company in Northern New Mexico.

    • Yes, nice. We outsiders wouldn’t know that… I have this nagging idea that Brown means B– row– N, and row means right of way. The tail flyswatter doesn’t register with me, but 6 cats, 5 squirts, and wet sox on a line does.

  76. According to New Mexico Game and Fish, “Warm waters include all streams, lakes, and ponds, except those designated as trout waters.” I did a quick search for Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana’s Game and Fish Dept. definitions but didn’t find a clear definition, yet. Good luck chasers!

    • That’s some good thinking, there.
      I don’t agree that that’s what the clue means, but maybe I will by next year. 🙂

    • Melissa – the “warm water” fishing regulations are unique to NM I believe. The special trout waters (anything not “warm”) are generally well signed as well as detailed specifically in NM fishing regs. Good luck. I haven’t found the treasure using this tactic but I’ve considered buying a fishing license for NM – beautiful trout waters abound.

      • I am currently exploring three different locations/solves, each with a different definition of WWWH. I am not completely committed to any one specific definition yet of WWWH. However, I am leaning toward the Continental Divide. The problem with the Continental Divide is that it is very, very long. Without a cross coordinate, it would be difficult to narrow down where exactly to take the “canyon down”. But, then I woke up in the middle of the night two nights ago and a thought popped into my head that perhaps the cross coordinate is actually given in the poem and I had overlooked it. So I have ordered a better map of the Continental Divide to try to find this cross coordinate. I just don’t seem able to work with google earth very well even though I am generally very competent on the computer. But, anyway, I’m trying to find what I think is the cross coordinate. I think I know which words in the poem refer to the cross coordinate, but I need to locate it on the map. Anxiously awaiting my new map in the mail.

        • Never could figure how waterS halt there. It’s the high point, water would drain awAy from it faster and faster.
          Also if true,it must be near a trAil, because ff sez you must follow the clues, there is no other way.

          • Musstag-

            The Continental Divide is an imaginary line drawn along the high peaks of the Rocky Mountains. In elementary school, most children learn in science class that the Continental Divide is the long stretch of mountain peaks that divide the warm moist air of the Pacific from crossing the peaks to the other side of the divide. As the warm moist air from the Pacific blows toward the Continental Divide, the air cools as it rises and by the time it reaches the top of the divide, it has lost most of its moisture and has cooled. It is a place WWWH. While it may not be the place FF is referring to, it is a known location on earth where the warm moist air from the Pacific cannot move across without cooling and loosing most of its moisture. It is a hydrology divide noted in textbooks and accepted scientifically. It also is a location that can be recognized by pilots and used to orient themselves when flying.

            I do have another solve I am working on that involves a warm geyser, as well as another type of place where WWH.

            The problem I see with warm springs is that nobody (at least not me) can seem to identify with any certainty using the poem, exactly which warm spring FF intended. Same problem with warm waters & cold trout waters. No way to identify specifically from the poem which warm water is intended. I do not think FF intended us to randomly search for the correct spot. I think the poem contains exactly the information we need to find the place to “take it in the canyon down”

            But, if the Continental Divide is the correct WWWH, and the poem does include a cross coordinate, then there would be no need to randomly try to locate the exact spot FF wants us to take in “canyon down”.

            I have a pretty good idea what words are intended to be the cross coordinate for the Continental Divide. We need coordinates. (IMO)

          • Hi Puzzled — While I see the merit in designing a puzzle that uses a linear feature coupled with a cross-track to identify a point, I’m not a big fan of WWWH referring to the Continental Divide. Begin it where warm *air* halts would be more to my liking for that purpose, but referring to atmospheric water vapor as “warm waters” is a pretty big stretch of artistic license. But many seem to like using the CD for their WWWH, so more power to them.

            Everyone realizes that halt and walk don’t rhyme, perhaps because Forrest was trying to deliberately call attention to one of those words. Many have pointed out the choice of plural “waters” as opposed to water possibly being significant. Certainly anyone banking their solve on the Firehole & Gibbon junction feels strongly about this. (I suppose the counter-argument is that if he had used water singular, then halt becomes halts, which would be an even worse rhyme pairing with walk.) But only a few people here have focused on the seemingly unnecessary word “it”. In casual reading, there is no real difference between:

            Begin it where warm waters halt


            Begin where warm waters halt

            But Forrest designed his poem like an architect, and I don’t think there is anything haphazard about his inclusion of the word IT. Forrest has emphasized the necessity of starting at the beginning and figuring out WWWH, but he has also said that few have been in tight focus with a word that is key. Perhaps “IT” is that word.

          • zaphod73491- You must have missed my posting yesterday. As of yesterday morning, I discovered who/what I believe “I” is in the poem. That has changed everything for me. Remember that FF said that the clues are straight forward? Once I realized who/what “I” is (imo), then all of a sudden, the clues seemed to line up precisely in a straight forward way and I could make sense out of the phrases, “where warm waters halt”, “home of Brown”, “no place for the meek”, etc. Its like the whole thing came into focus.

            So you are commenting on a previous post of mine, which I am no longer even working on. But, I do appreciate your comment.

          • Imo, stanza 1 suggest an area where he has new And old memores. In that area a lot of warm water goes to one spot, then …

          • Puzzled: while I was commenting on your previous and so-yesterday 5-day-old post, you have to agree that plenty of searchers believe WWWH is the Continental Divide. So the relevance of my post still stands, even if you’ve tossed that idea to the four winds. As for your new focus on “I”, I (no pun intended) cannot comment. When people conveniently (but perhaps necessarily!) hold their cards close to the vest on their latest infatuation, there is no way to debate them on the merits of their idea. So other than “I” being the 9th letter of the alphabet (OH! 9 clues! 9 sentences!) I am unimpressed.

          • Zaphod73491, Thanks for making me laugh at myself. You are right, that your comments are not of any less value because I have changed my direction.

          • Puzzled: you have a good sense of humor, and for that I am grateful. Re-reading my comments I sound harshly dismissive of your latest change in direction, and that was not my intent. My original goal was to try to understand why so many searchers fixate on the Continental Divide for WWWH — wisdom that as yet escapes me. Perhaps Seeker or another regular poster will patiently explain it to me.

          • “why so many searchers fixate on the Continental Divide for WWWH?”

            Hey Zaphod…..I know what you mean, and although I am not in that camp, I think it may have to do with TToTC and his memories of that region.

            Why WWWH? I haven’t a clue, although I am also searching in this region as well, the CD only comes into play as an historical marker for the region….not a starting point.

            To me the 45 deg parallel is just to much of an obvious point. Maybe because it is within the region of the search area? Maybe.


            I think the terrain is too tough to transverse as a starting point…..but then again, I’m still empty handed of the chest too.


            One could also surmise it to be this clue, because it is the approx. middle area between the North Pole and the Equator….in which it could be where warm waters end and colder water begins geographically.

            I disagree, because a snow-capped mountain can still have warm waters flowing during the Springtime. We all already realize that the Firehole river doesn’t play by that rule, nor do hot springs. I’m thinking that is just too vague and inaccurate.

            Best regards and good luck!

        • Not to give too much information on where I am searching, but I managed to find a spot that includes many “firsts” – as in – first established here, first location for this, first location for that.

          This location also includes a line sight that can view the Continental Divide.

          Could Forrest actually have placed Indulgence onto a piece of BLM land that not only is special to him in some way, but also historically significant that it also contains multiple “firsts” that show its history and REASON for someone to go into this region?

          Why not!

          FF wants us to have an adventure, and to possibly relive some of his wild adventures…..but we are to do this through visiting those places he remembers that brought him his good times.

          It is logical he would think like this.

          Here is an additional hint/clue that may help a fellow seeker in their search or help them keep within a certain frame of mind. I find this particular quote intriguing, because it actually gives a distance. From this point, one could extrapolate a range and/or region, if the distance of the radius is confined to the 46 miles.

          – “One time I walked 92 miles, because I could.” (paraphrased) = IMO this would 46 miles each way…..

          – “Keep it simple.”

          – “It is difficult, not impossible.” = It is solvable.

    • The lack of uniformity in definition across the states is why I think this is a bit of a red herring.

      FF has said that there are many places where warm waters halt and that it could be deciphered by a child. I take this to mean that wwwh is not a description of a legal term and is actually a plain language description.

      But, what does FF mean by “warm?” Again, by plain meaning it seems to refer to water that is not cold or hot. I suppose this could be talking about any water that is liquid, but then why say warm water and not ice or steam? The fact that he says water would make me (and I’m assuming most children) think of liquid water so warm seems to be a modifier for liquid water and not just water in any form. So where is there liquid water, that is also warm? How warm is warm? I think if you were to jump into this water you would say that it is warm in the conventional sense. But of course, any given body of water in nature is going to change temperature depending on the time of year and the altitude not to mention the source of the water. The searching season is the summer and rumor has it FF hid the treasure in the summer so I think we are looking for water that is warm in the summer, but that is conjecture. We could be looking for water that is warm regardless of the season, which would cut down our search choices.

      And discovering what FF means by “warm water” still doesn’t get us to a fixed location. Warm water could “halt” at a certain altitude or at a certain time of year. I think FF is being prozaic with the word “halt” and literally means where the water stops, or is at least held up for some period of time. Like a lake. I think the warm water must be some stream that feeds a lake of a relatively lower temperature than the stream that feeds it. There must be many such locations but only one of which fits the rest of the clues. So I think the real challenge is figuring out what lakes fit this description and then working the rest of the clues to eliminate the starting points.

      Since FF has also said that the clues should be valid for the next thousand years, I think we can avoid looking at temporary or seasonal streams, since those can change a lot. Instead I think we are looking at some of the more major water systems in the Rockies. Because of the simplicity of my reading of wwwh, I am sure that many people have started at the right place (or the right kind of place) but that’s just the starting point!

      My interpretation isn’t sexy, but I am skeptical of interpretations that require too much obscure knowledge or very involved analyses.

      • A good analysis, but I have just one question. Following BI WWWH, is followed by ,”And take it in the canyon down.” If your stream halts at a lake, isn’t it a little difficult to then “…take it in the canyon down”?

        Throw in the next…”Not far, but too far to walk” as a
        limiter in distance, and your lake theory becomes a bit
        problematic for me. But, what do I know? Not much.

        Good luck to you and all searchers, and STAY SAFE


        • I guess that depends on what “down” means, haha. In this context “down” would have to mean something like “South” or at least “southerly.”

          I mean, I could be wrong. It could be something equally simple like the hot springs idea that so many have stated (I prefer to rule things out rather than in). My point is really that you shouldn’t read *too* much into the words. I ran across someone who thought that hoB referred to Molly Brown living in Colorado and thought puting “in” literally below CO produced “coin” which is an anagram of “icon” which made sense to this person since Molly Brown was “iconic.” Those are precisely the kinds of “interpretations” that I think every earnest searcher should avoid.

        • I’m not seeing what you are JD.

          “take it in the canyon down” – if one begins from a place with a faucet, then this next clue is possible, because you would be looking for a canyon that is adjacent to WWWH.

          I’m seeing this to be pretty straightforward.

      • Indiana Joe, you said… “FF has said that there are many places where warm waters halt and that it could be deciphered by a child.” I do think that is accurate but lets have a go at it.
        You said, ” I suppose this could be talking about any water that is liquid, but then why say warm water and not ice or steam? Depending on age of a child, most would see the simple solid, liquid, gas stages of water. The other parts of your comments talk about “water” and not “waters” Is it far off the beaten track that a child [ or anyone really ] not see all waters halt, being a liquid at a solid state… which is by far, warm in temperature. The problem is lack of degrees for the use of “warm” as a dedicated temperature, so why are we looking for some indicator of a degree and not what a ‘child’ would see.
        { again, I do think that is an accurate statement }

        You said, “But of course, any given body of water in nature is going to change temperature depending on the time of year and the altitude not to mention the source of the water.” It seems you may have answered the question as to WWWH… maybe not so much a time of year but altitude or elevation. Yet I’ll add… you seem to want a specific location to start… a small area in the overall view. Maybe the area is large, very large, and while many have indicated the first clue they didn’t understand the significance… Im gonna go out on a ledge here and say… thousands could have been where warm water[s] halt, and in every state being search.

        I also wonder if Brown is capitalize not for the word brown… but what is represents would be capitalized.

        • I’m a little confused by your first comment but I will attempt to respond to it. When you say “water” or “waters” to a child, they will more likely than not think of liquid water in some form. Liquid water certainly halts (or is, at the least, severely retarded) when it freezes and is thus relatively warm, but I think most kids would think of what is warm relative to themselves. I’m not saying that kids couldn’t come to some other conclusion re:warm relative to some other thing, just that I don’t think that would be many kids’ gut reaction. That doesn’t preclude the freezing/halting hypothesis, though! Just that we start with some feature or features of liquid water that are warm relative to one’s self. So I don’t think we are looking for a very specific degree range for the waters, just a generally warm range relative to the average person, something you could go swimming in comfortably. That’s not very specific, but it could rule out springs that are too hot to bath in or nearly freezing alpine lakes. It’s not a dedicated temperature, but I think that’s how a child would view it.

          I do want wwwh to be a somewhat specific location. The rest of the clues, though cryptic, all seem to refer to specific locations and I don’t know why the starting point would be any different. I don’t think it makes sense for wwwh to be a linear feature like a freeze line or a whole river because it doesn’t seem like a helpful way to mark a starting point. It’s like responding to the question, “Where does Bill live?” with, “Near I-10.” Thanks, hypothetical jackass, you really helped me out.

          The problem with areas is that there aren’t necessarily a lot of similar “areas” through out the Rockies. At some level it’s ok to say lake or hot springs even though that is kind of an area because there are lots of lakes and springs. The bigger the area, the less repeatable it is. If you concoct some intertretation of wwwh to mean a caldera, well that’s a huge area, but there arent lots of them (and that’s without getting to the difficulty of then deciding which of many canyons in such a large area is the right canyon). So I do think FF is being reasonably precise. Not lat long precise, but not huge swaths of land either.

          • Let me clarify the water vs waters. While in most cases the term is each person or regional for use. Some would say; the water on the lake is calm. or, the waters of the river run swift.
            The use of plural for water[s] imo, would relate to more than one or all. [ and clarifying again, I don’t believe fenn stated; “… that it could be deciphered by a child.”] But for this conversation… would a ‘child/kid’ in most cases relate to waters as plural in meaning?

            Now if we are to keep inline with the child’s line of thinking… halt; would more than likely mean stop. Two reason present itself. 1. an obstruction [ we know a dam is ruled out ] 2. freezing. While fenn has stated imagination will help, he has also stated the use of logic. So logically water[s] halt at the freezing point.

            This doesn’t give a specific location, but it may be an indicator on how to read the rest of the poem…
            In your scenario the location should be small [ a lake, no matter what size is small over the general search area, and it still hasn’t narrowed it down much to a specific lake or area ].

            My scenario allows an understanding of why we should know WWWH. The significance of the location may be more important to know of, then just to know where the location is.

            ‘Many have indicated the first two clues… they didn’t understand the significance of where they were…’

            While you seem to be following the water to a point of where it slows / halts momentary, It appears that you are the “it” in the line of the poem [ no disrespect meant ]… I would say the “It” in the line refers to the area of ‘melt water[s]’

            Begin it where warm water[s] halt… The question in this stanza is, What is it to take in the canyon down? With no true distance to manage, are we to simply guess how far a searcher needs to travel or could it be the water[s] distance of travel? from the point of the elevation.

            Now before someone, jumps in and says… Seeker fenn stated that some where at the first two clues and walked pass the other seven, how could you hypothesis hold water? What I believe was stated… they got there by ‘aberrations’ [ fenn’s definition ; something different ]. imo this is to say, they got lucky to be in the correct area, but failed to understand why they were, where they were. It comes back to ‘knowing the first clue’.

            Sorry for the long post… this is simply a difference of opinion Indiana Joe, on how there can be a different reading of the poem, without forcing a small location to start.

        • Hi Seeker, your explanation is why I now firmly believe, if I were to ask a child where warm waters halt, they would more than likely state a house, place that has warm water on tap through a faucet.

          If you weigh this against all other scenarios, you still have questions. This one there is none.

          Now if I were to apply this to some where in the Rockies, I now have to apply this theory to a place that Fenn is/was familiar with – whether it be in 2010 or in the 1950s…..he still knows that the place will have water halt.

          I’ve been reading in the background lately, just to see what everyone’s minds are thinking up now-a-days, and I’m still seeing people not taking the simple route.

          Fenn is a simple man…always has been…..in fact also seems like a person that would try to take the easiest way to the end result.

          Changing words to mean something else is definitely needed in this puzzle, but to what extent? Movies, places, happenings from times gone by? To what extent is this simple?

          It isn’t.

          Simplicity is……asking a child….and they will give you a simple answer…..no algorithms, no codexes, no ciphers – nothing except a best guess scenario. One doesn’t need any gadgets or thing-a-ma- bobs to get that answer. Just a child.

          Now how old that child should be, would be a good problem to solve. What exactly does Fenn mean by this? Did he ask a 6 yr old or a 13 yr old?

          Seriously, I really do believe people are adding way to much into something Fenn says not to….yet they still continue to come back from their search(es) empty handed.

          Keep it simple…..and you should move in much more confidence.

          • zororock,

            If it were only that simple… I mean, how many have indicated the first two clues? While I agree on some the solving process you mentioned as being over complicating the poem. All the simple explanation have gone down same path. I would like yo to explain the “Happenings from time gone by” you stated.

            But back to the child thing… If I would even consider a child capability to solve the poem,[ I wish people would look that up again, I’m tired and weak from it ] logically it would be fenn’s 13 year old self. However, we have to keep in mind “fenn’s” era of a 13 year. To use a kid [ most not all ] with today’s mentality… imo, is a losing battle. I would pick a kid who works on the family farm and needs to know how to solve things on his own, and not google how to do something.

            My point is, if we are to think like a 13 year old… would it be in the time perimeter of the Author? Is the book not helpful in that way?

            Oh, and are you saying my snow cap mountain peaks is out of the realm of plausibility? … serious question. I just wonder if the answer will be… it’s not a specific enough place.

          • Hi Seeker.

            “If I would even consider a child capability to solve the poem,”

            I’m not saying to have the child solve the poem, but I would have them answer WWWH to get you started on your solve.

            Of course I’m biased now, because I do believe now, and after other clues that were found by my team, that WWWH is a place FF stayed at. Whether this be a hotel, campsite (with showers), or some other place that allows people to start adventures.

            And when I say this firmly, I think it is true. I’d love to give more details out on this, but I just can’t, as this will then spoil my secret location.

            I’ve been there.

            I’ve seen things that go well with the poem…..if one were to start there.

            I did find this place using Google Earth and a map….1000 miles away. I never had been to this spot, and it really surprised me that there were so many things that clicked into place.

            It was also where a “Utah couple” had stayed. I say this, because Forrest had stated that a Utah couple had solved the first clue.

            Am I in that same spot? I think so, based upon other clues found while I stayed there.

            Is it the right spot? I can only guess it is…..and will make my second attempt at this location again – this summer.

            “I would like you to explain the “Happenings from time gone by”
            – Good question. “Historical firsts from the past 200 years”
            – These would include things like the The Lewis and Clark Expedition met at where the forks of the Jefferson, Yellowstone and Missouri meets. A special location. No this is not my spot.


            …..but just an example of an historic first that Fenn is quite aware of and more than likely visited.

            “My point is, if we are to think like a 13 year old… would it be in the time perimeter of the Author? Is the book not helpful in that way?”
            – Again, don’t think like a 13 yr old, as the puzzle is probably too difficult for a 13 yr old to solve.
            – I do believe that TToTC is helpful…..

            In one reason…..you will notice that Fenn labeled every single fishing hole in the book….except one. Do you know which hole he didn’t? I do.
            – He never labels a location for his picture showing only “Secret fishing hole”……which would also coincide with his quote that “people didn’t know they were there.”

            If one can find the fishing hole….IMO – one WILL find Indulgence.

            It all fits together……his childhood place away from others….no one knows about it…..except his childhood friend who died. It seems to be also a place with a great scenic view….as Fenn wants to die there.

            I do believe this photo is the final resting place of the treasure. It is logical.

            Now how do I get there? That my friend…..is the question, huh?



          • LOL…snow-capped mtns”…probably not a wise move for an 81 year old to go up and and down. Although, I am not one to say he couldn’t…because I’ve seen what an 81 year old man can do….and sometime I wonder if I will still be able to do those things…..and there are many activities that surprised me.

            I’d stay safe if you do hike to that level…..and by all means….bring a friend and never travel alone.



            Fenn says to stay safe, so he increasingly over the years have added places that could cause harm…AS NOT WHERE THE TREASURE LIES.

            Are snow-capped mtns in the mix? Hmmm…tough call.

            Good luck though.

          • Forrest has been admonishing us to spend more time on the first clue so I’m glad to see there is finally some discussion about the first clue (IMO) WWWH.

            However a lot is being made of the child connection once again. Did Forrest ever hint that a child could solve the poem? I don’t think so but I wish someone would show me the quote.

            I would recommend everyone review this exchange:

            So it would seem that the only thing he really said was “ask a child where warm waters halt”. What does that mean?

            Ok I believe in keeping it simple too and a childs mind might be considered simple but lots of us have children and there’s no evidence this is helping anyone.

            My suggestion is that most of us are taking the wrong approach to resolving WWWH. I would contend that water is involved only “conceptually”. The search by the many for a special and unique “warm” water feature has not born much fruit.

            I suggest everyone review dals analysis on the “many places….and most are north of SF” quote: http://dalneitzel.com/2015/05/25/where-warm-waters-halt-2/#comment-108531

            I believe that Dal is dead on that Forrest is hinting that hot springs and similar features are not what he intended. But I also disagree with Dals choice of WWWH. To me, this clue is not literal and that’s why it is so confounding.

            So what do I think about WWWH? It requires a different solution method not discussed openly on this blog, but it does yield a simple exact place to start….hot/warm “water” is not required.

          • zosorocks1,

            Can you point me to where F said:
            ” I say this, because Forrest had stated that a Utah couple had solved the first clue.”

          • Hi Colokid…..here is a link and quote from Fenn on the first clue….not the one I was looking for, but it does play into what I said….

            “I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues.”

            – certainly – more than several – so some have…..


          • Here is another reference to someone deciphering the first two clues….but not realizing they were near the treasure. I think this is the interview that he mentions the Utah couple….not quite sure.

            “There have been some who have been within 500 feet because they have told me where they have been. Others have figured the first two clues and went right past the treasure and didn’t know it.”


          • from that same link….this information is sort of interesting, as it doesn’t even refer to “the edge of civilization” as “WWWH”….and it should be…..


            Begin it where warm waters halt
            – Could be a generic reference such as bottom of a waterfall, the warm, shallow edge of a lake or river, snow melt from a mountain, or the elevation boundary line on a mountain where snow begins to form.
            – Could be referring to the boundaries of Yellowstone Park’s thermal basin. Yellowstone’s Hebgen Lake and The Boiling River are locations often suggested where the warm waters of Yellowstone halt.
            – Could refer to memorable frozen water sites such as Ice Mountain in Colorado or Ouray Ice Park.
            – “Warm waters” are often noted by wildlife/game entities as streams, lakes, ponds, except those designated as trout waters. The fishing regulations in New Mexico, where Fenn lives and fishes often, refer to areas where you cannot fish for trout as “warm waters”.
            – Some believe this could be a reference to sand dunes.
            – Other specific locations suggested include Rio Grande River to Rio Grande Gorge State Park, where the Red River joins Rio Grande, Jemez hot springs, Gardiner Montana (near Yellowstone) to Yankee Jim Canyon (Yellowstone to Missouri), Dry Cimarron River, Brown Ranch, Devil’s wash basin, Eagle Nest Lake, Warm Springs Cliff in Dinosaur National Monument.

            This doesn’t bother as much, because people have a right to think as they choose, but to totally disregard it, well, that is limiting your options greatly.

            Hope these little nuggets help you.

            Good luck!

            Cheers Colokid!

          • Sorry, I don’t have a link….just something I thought I recall reading in one of his interviews he has done in the past couple of years when asked if anyone has deciphered the first clue.

            Here is a link to a story on that couple.

            After looking for a source….sorry….I don’t have it….maybe another seeker can find that interview with FF saying that he thinks a Utah couple may have deciphered the first clue.


            If they hadn’t….this is good for my team!


          • zosorocks1,

            You have provided a lot of well known quotes and a quick list of all the commonly used definitions of WWWH. If I can make a generalization, this is pretty much how everyone approaches solving this clue….with references to some form of water and, more often then not, some reference to temperature. I don’t think anyone can make a good case that this is the best way to go. History has kind of indicated that people aren’t being successful with this thinking.

            Here’s my big problem with temperature (warm). It’s relative and arbitrary. It really has no meaning unless it has something for comparison. If we use the human body that’s 98.6, if we’re talking trout water the boundary between warm and cold is roughly in the 60’s, if we talk about the human perception of warmth that’s even more personal and nebulous. You can pick any reference point you want and make anything seem warm through rationalization.

            So my thought is…..what if physical water and temperature aren’t involved? What if there is an alternative way to think about that sentence that yields a physical place? And what if warm is not temperature related….per se?

          • Ahh-ha, Colokid! And that is exactly the direction I’ve been going in recent days. In fact, I have decided as of this morning, that although I have 3 very detailed solves that make some definite sense, I am going a different direction entirely.

            I think that the very first hint I picked up on in the book TTOTC, is actually the clue that makes the most sense. It suggested to me in a very indirect way, who/what “I” represents in the poem. “As I have gone alone in there”.

            FF has said that the correct solve is straight forward and that when someone solves it, other people will ask, “why didn’t I think of that?”. I’m asking myself right now why I didn’t see it sooner.

            My current solve is very straightforward and quite honestly doesn’t rely on too much twisting of definitions that I have previously been studying intently.

            What if, the only thing necessary to understand stanza 1, is to understand who/what “I” is?

            What if the words actually are very straightforward if you have the correct perspective?

            I think that is the key, and I think I now have the correct perspective!

            With this perspective, I can follow the words in the poem (with just a few alternate definitions of words) and I can get all the way to stanza 5 with a clear understanding.

          • Okay…..reverse the meanings…..that sort goes against the “keep it simple guide”…..so, I’m not so sure I’ve considered that….probably because Fenn really hasn’t said any references to that level. I consider a lot of ideas, and see if I can work something up. Thanks for the thought.

            Now….have you ask a child what they think already before moving on that direction?

            That is my point of the discussion. Fenn says to “show” a child the poem. Maybe a child’s mind is more useful than you think.

            IMO – the mind of a child is “wondrous”…and can be very insightful if you pay close attention.

            Cheers and good luck!

          • zororocks.

            Colokid hit on most I was going to reply about… ] fenn correct the miss use the child quote floating around.] [ And the other was your other comment of the Utah couple ].
            So one of the last things is about an 80 year old at the ‘snow cap mountains’… while I used that term, the reference was to where to begin understanding, and not so much the need to be there. This is one of the reasons why I tend to look at other options other than, step by step 9 clues 9 locations… The method force fit the need of locations that have to be traveled, and not so much understood in connection to the poem.

            This also can force fit the need to find a distance for too far to walk, no matter how one perceive the travel [ walk, car, etc.] This also indicates that one needs to put themselves in a canyon or go in a southerly direction etc. While the step by step method is the most popular… there is very little imagination in regards to the poem… although, I will admit that Dal’s post on “Hyde park” was very interesting.

            It in a way, answered the “know where to begin” comment, and not the use of WWWH as only the first thing needed to know.

            Now to your history comment and first[s] clues…

            Fenn has stated… No, to the question of any US history. Yet I can see a little wiggle room, if your “historical” place doesn’t pertain to US history, even if it recognized by the US. YSP is a historical place as it was the first USA national park… however… interior of park can be of historical places without the “Knowledge of US history” involvement. A couple of fast example only; the caldera itself, or the petrified forest etc.

      • Indiana Joe: great post from someone who clearly “gets it”. Forrest has suggested that the person who figures out the clues will do so quietly, calmly, and analytically, and that no special knowledge will be required. They will use logical deduction IMO (to include process of elimination) and then proceed with confidence to the treasure chest. I totally agree with your hypothesis that one possible answer to the WWWH question is where literally warm waters terminate in a lake. I prefer that definition of water halting as opposed to water “mixing” with colder water and then continuing on. (In the latter case, the “warmth” halted, but not the water.)

        The follow-up of TIITCD doesn’t bother me in the least. In backpacking and mountaineering all through the Sierra Nevada of California, I’ve seen streams and creeks ending in lakes countless times, many of which have no obvious outlets. And yet canyons continue on below them. I say keep going the way you’re going — you’ve got the right idea.

  77. It would be kinda fun to have a vote counter on here of a few popular places where they think WWWH may be just to see how many thousands of people actually believe it starts near Taos or near the Firehole River or even which state it’s in. That could be a good or a bad thing – ha ha. Some people have mentioned the exact places I’ve thought of already which kinda gives me confidence.
    Still can’t figure out HOB to save my life…something that will be around in 1000 years doesn’t fit in with the capitalized version of brown…..trout could become extinct as could brown bears. History is often forgotten as in the case of Joe Brown gold seeker dude, sorry rambling on another topic. Must get out and walk around in the wilderness at locations to clear my head and give me ideas.

    • Hi Lana,

      history may be forgotten from time to time…however…it has been written about and therefore we can always reread it.

      As for HOB…”if” this place has been written about…it would not matter if B becomes extinct…we will always have it in writing and know where it is or was.

    • Ya,…but I.M.O., …..warm watters means where the power runs out , i.e. , no more electrical lines. Second, …ta’ “KIT” in the canyon down. Kit Carson is the supplier of power in Northern New Mexico. Hmmmm….er Taos Hummmmm.

  78. Not sure if it has been mentioned…so SIAP.

    Any specualtion on why he didn’t say “where warm waters ‘balk’ ”

    The word balk means basically the same thing as halt, and has the added advantage of actually rhyming with walk.

    Halt is, in my humble opinion, one of the most carefully chosen words of all, if for no other reason than the simple, and singlular, disconnect in the rhyming pattern.

    • @WhereItsWarm – I agree. It’s a nuance worth noticing in my opinion.

        • @Jake – yep. Unsuccessful in Strawberry Fields again so far. Trying to test what’s up with new blaze quote and if my solution is way off.

      • I believe that HALT and WALK are essential to this poem. The fact that they do not rhyme (imo) is because FF wanted to draw attention to these two words.

        Has anyone else noticed that in the first stanza, that lines two and three do not have the same amount of syllables as the rest of the poem. All of the lines in the poem, except three, have 8 syllables. Stanza 1, line 2 has six syllables. Stanza 1, line 3 has 7 syllables and Stanza 2 line 3 has 7 syllables. I think this is the same technique; making these lines different so they will stand out. When I study just these three lines alone, I come up with some ideas. I’m wondering what others have thought about the discrepancy of syllables in these lines?

    • @ WhereItsWarm-

      I think FF carefully chose his words. He could easily have used “balk” to rhyme with “walk”. But, he chose not to. He needed us (IMO) to take note of the word “walk”, as it has great importance in this poem. “Halt” is also important to the poem and we might not have taken such notice of it had it not stood out by not rhyming. It was important that both of these words stuck out as important.

      I also believe that lines 2, 3, and 6 have great importance. These three lines do not contain the same amount of syllables as the other lines in the poem. There is (IMO) a reason for this. We need to pay attention to what these lines say. I think I understand them.

      • Syllables, huh? Ill have to take a look at that.

        Im partial to lines 1 and 3, instad of 2 and 3. *smirk*

        • WhereItsWarm- I agree that lines 1, and 3 are very important! But, 2 and 4 add to what 1 and 3 are saying.

      • I have considered “warm waters hauled” also. There is a place where that makes sense

        • Yes puzzled, and if you be gin , think Tanqueray, or an array of tanks. But there are hundreds of these tanks around. The trick for you is to figure out the correct tanks. Think now, remember the story Forrest told of seeing old (army) tanks left over from battles in Northern Africa? I.M.O., Forrest uses “spirits” as in alcohol as a clue, as I believe “WH is key” is the key word. Forrest never said the “key word” was in the poem. Again, think distillery, warm waters halt in the copper coil and become happy juice.

          • Definitely not tanks! In my opinion, FF expects us to be able to solve the poem using ONLY the poem, a map, and possibly a knowledge/knowlege of geography. I feel sure that if we decide to use “hints” from the book or elsewhere, we should ask ourselves if the poem itself would have ever led us to the conclusions we are drawing with the “hints” we have added. If the answer to that is no, then we are using information that is not a real hint. Someone suggested that all the info in the books could possibly be acting as camouflage; hiding the clues in plain site. The more info that gets put out there, can just cloud our view to the real solve. If a “hint” brings something to mind that seems to be suggested by the poem itself, then great. But if the poem in no way suggests what the hint is suggesting, then I think it isn’t a real hint. Just my opinion.

            I believe I have discovered both the “word that is key”, and also who/what “I” is in the poem. I came to this conclusion by studying the poem itself. But, once I came to the conclusion, I can see that it appears to have been hinted at indirectly in the book TTOTC. I think that the poem itself should give us the answers and that the hints are only there as confirmation; not the other way around.

          • Hi Puzzled….do you care to share the state that you have included in your solve?


          • Sorry, can’t share the state. But, I would suggest figuring out who/what “I” is. Finding the “word that is key” is important. I believe the poem tells us everything we need to know.

          • Tanqueray, hmmm
            Tan que rays –
            Tan lines as rays could be the blazing rays on the NM flag which make a sunburst.

  79. Colokid – no reply button so will post here.

    On second thought – Have a nice day Colokid


  80. The Merriam Webster definition of halt is- a small railroad stop at which there is no station.
    Any around northern New Mexico?
    Not even sure if this is part of a solve. Just found it interesting.

  81. There is nothing wrong with having some form of warm waters mix n your halt solve!
    Don’t go off or down that rabbit hole too deep that it becomes a one of a kind, remember ff said there are many in the Rockys most north of Santa Fe.

  82. Lately, my warm waters halt as they do on page 253 TFTW

    mirror + age = mirage

    Seriously, I’m on GE seeing a very large, perfect blaze. When I zoom in, POOF! It disappears completely – just like a mirage. I don’t mean is blurs or becomes part of the landscape, now you see it, now you don’t. Weird.

    • 42, and anyone else …..I too am curious about the “mirror image”. Forrest has said (AT LEAST i THINK HE SAID) that no photos where photo shopped. Yet, on the page that shows all the gold coins, you can fold the page to where the coins all match up with each other. It folds the words in the poem too, but I haven’t found it to say thing that might solve the poem.

      • That is an interesting pic. I haven’t seen it in awhile, but the first time I read the book… that pic did jump out. At the time I simply dismissed it as editing… a smaller picture to look larger or contain more, for image affect… now I’m not so sure.

      • Seattle, Seeker,
        Maybe try folding in +
        or x fashion, which could be interpreted to halves and 4ths like my favorite number 42. look at images precisely. Precisely has origins in “cising” or cutting into small pieces. Look at individual letters/coins whichever helps your interpretation. If you overthink like me you can try matching letters with frequencies in your area.

        • I keep seeing mirror discussions. I honestly think people are not understanding the significance of mirrors. I have heard of people looking for identical images of geography in different states, images in the stars that match images on earth, etc.

          I looked into mirrors at the same time I looked into shadows. We are all familiar with the shadow picture on the cover of one of FF’s books.

          Here is what I learned. A shadow is cast by being placed between an object and the light. So the shadow isn’t the image of the “thing”, but is a suggestion of the “thing”. A mirror is a reflected image of a “thing”, but not the “thing” itself. Both require light to be seen.

          I do think this applies to the poem in kind of a unique but indirect way. But, I also think it is possible to solve the poem without understanding how mirrors or shadows apply.

  83. What is “IT”?
    Is “It” the quest? Is “It” you/me?
    Why do you take “it” in the canyon down but don’t put “It” in below the home of Brown?

    I’m also beginning “It” WWWH.

    Is “it” ‘No Place for the Meek’?

    The poem does day that. “From there no place for the meek.

    Do does “it” change from something to ‘no place for the meek’

    And why is it “the canyon down” but it’s “up ‘MY’ creek’

    Why is it not “my canyon’ or just ‘up the creek’?

    Why the difference?

    So, I am Beginning “it” where warm waters halt.

    Does that mean I need to add the letters “it” to the end of a word that WWH represents?

    And why add “Ever” to ‘Drawing nigh’? Doesn’t ‘ever drawing’ mean you are never going to get there? as apposed to just ‘drawing
    Or does the “End is ever drawing Nigh” have to do with the “no place for the meek” That there is no end to it?

    • Are you me? All questions no answers. I like that.

      A few thoughts in the event that this was not intended to be rhetorical.

      If it is the quest or the chase, it seems when you “put in” that is in reference to your mode of travel and you and your quest are departing from that. You do not put “It” (again assuming it is the quest/chase) in you put your vehicle in and the “it” keeps on going with you.

      From there [the quest] might be no place for the meek because you are exposed as you have “put in” your vehicle below the home of brown and are now on foot.

      As far as why the creek is “your” not sure that there is a good answer for that. Perhaps at this point most are too meek and you will largely be alone. Also this is likely a reference to the phrase “up s***t creek without a paddle.” Anecdotally I usually find this phrase is commonly applied to an individuals situation rather than the situation of a group. (I would for example say it about say someone going through a messy legal issue but it seems odd to say it about something like foreign policy) it may just be the idiom most commonly associated with that phrase.

      As far as Nigh. I suppose you would be correct but I feel that your course is changed. Also Ever drawing nigh is again a reference to a common phrase and the idiom that it is usually stated in. Also the inclusion of “the end” seems to counter the “ever” in such a paradoxical statement. In my mind it is a statement of inevitability not infinity.

      To be clear I am not saying that these are just the way that these common phrases are said so you should ignore them. Quite the opposite. There is at least two other anomalies you had not mentioned that I think require more information of the same sort that would otherwise be overlooked. But [big cheesy grin] I’ve never heard anyone else mention them so ill keep them close to my chest for now.

      I think that “it” and “you” are very nearly synonyms in this instance and both are usually implied. But I admittedly have only reached that conclusion because the other possibilities make less sense in my mind. I often try to take other meaning from them just for the sake of experimentation but I rarely find that it changes anything. however don’t let the limits of my imagination discourage you by any means.

    • Mark: What is “IT”?
      Is “It” the quest? Is “It” you/me?
      Why do you take “it” in the canyon down but don’t put “It” in below the home of Brown?

      Here is a simple ‘ KiSS ‘ Idea… [ can’t believe I said that lol ].
      Begin where [ whatever warm waters refers to ] and ride it down the canyon. So as some have talked about “halt’ as train stop… could WWWH refer to the available transportation? The reference to “not far”, but an easier transit down. Then the “put in” will be the / a stop along the way… Is ‘IT’ … a thing?

      Halt simply meaning a ‘stop’ such; as a bus stop, train stop, a cable car, a gondola or boat tour…

      From there, you’re on your own.

      • seeker – begin it where warm waters halt and take it (warm water ) and follow it back in the canyon down – imo you take it from here – where warm waters halt

        • I’m basically saying the same… however, in this theory the warm waters doesn’t apply to temperature of water, but refers to something warm waters represents. Think of it as hoB… while everyone at one time was looking a person, place or thing… “Warm Waters” can refer to the same.

          Some searcher like to use the… show the poem to a child… I don’t, but they do… do you know what a child could refer to? A possibility is what a child represent to the poem… Mountain man terms; a child is a racoon or coon, which is a term those men used to show respect to another. Is this a clever hint?

          City folks just don’t get it! Hold on, that’s another chase altogether…

    • EVER can mean “More than once” as well as never. Maybe you will have to come to some sort of end – more than once.

      Like – Come to the end of a road, and then come to the end of a stream bed.

      Just thoughts.

      Good luck in your search and STAY SAFE


      • Ever means; always [ in one definition ].
        The end is always drawing nigh
        If you’re thinking of water, which end are you at? If water is drawing/pulling [ gravity ], it is draining from somewhere. if nigh mean left, then can it also mean west?

        Thinking along the lines of water… the end may just be the source which it drains from, and that can flow in a westerly or left direction.

        Maybe that’s not straightforwards enough… it must be that our quest is closing in.

        • Hmmm. If you look at “the end” is the some water, then and go along with your thinking, then maybe the water is always flowing west.
          Which could mean that the it is on the West side of the Continental Divide?
          Kind of a stretch, but hey, you never know.

        • Seeker- think about it some more. If “the end is ever drawing near”, then can you ever reach the end? I don’t think you can. Now what do you think that phrase means?

          • It all depends on the reading of the poem puzzled. To even attempt to understand ‘the end is…” we still need to understand the correct references to prior lines in the poem. This has been imo the failure of all so far. We can’t read the poem as intended without the proper connection.

            I would still be interested in your “i” theory… I did notices you were careful with your wording who/what I is. I lean to both in one of the readings of the poem… can ya throw a hint out?

          • Seeker- for clarity in this message, lets just assume for the moment that I am correct about who/what “I” is (“I have gone alone in there”, “can keep my secrets where”). So everything I’m going to say about “I” is assuming I am right about “I” and is my opinion based on what I understand.

            “I” has gone alone in there. “the end is ever drawing nigh”, applies to “I”, as well as to us. But, neither we nor “I” can ever get there.

            “I” can go where warm waters halt.
            “I” has been where the meek cannot.
            “I” can handle heavy loads.
            “I” knows where the blaze is
            “I” is brave and in the wood.

            “I” is not supposed to look quickly down. only we look quickly down (except that look quickly down is a geographical feature and not an action)

            “I” has done it tired and now is weak.
            “I” cannot claim the gold or the title to it.
            “I” doesn’t care who gets the gold. It is there for the taking.

            In the poem, “I” tells us about about where the TC is, but you have to understand who “I” is or you won’t see it from the right perspective and the poem won’t make sense.

            I used to think the poem was a metaphor or simile. I know now it is not. BUT, some of the hints FF gives about the poem are metaphors; “a kid can really think in a graveyard”, mirrors, shadow, artwork (which does not need to be studied)

            Understanding “I” Makes at least the first 4 stanzas perfectly clear.

            These are things I believe I know about “I”. If anyone else thinks they have the same answer for “I’, the I (as in me) would love to discuss it off the blogs.

          • It’s like looking in a mirror… your reply to me.
            I have thought that the poem was written in the first as fenn, but at the same time narrated by another… your “I” as who/what. as well as “I” as the searcher… a journey of three if you will.

            I’m curious as to why “I” doesn’t care who gets the gold? It doesn’t matter at this point who or what I represents to you, how did you come to that conclusion, doesn’t care? The statement might be true [ I can see that ] but it’s odd that you say it.

            If you would like to PM chat, I would need your addy… whatever is said in PM stays in PM, as far as I’m concerned… I have never nor will never repeat anything talked about… No matter how crazy, lol.

          • Seeker- as per my previous message, lets assume for the moment that I have the correct understanding of who/what “I” is (I have gone alone in there). You said, “It doesn’t matter at this point who or what I represents to you, how did you come to that conclusion, doesn’t care?”

            Knowing who/what “I” represents is the reason I know that “I” doesn’t care who gets the TC. Perhaps this is the part that should be shown to a child.

            Remember, I believe the poem is written to explain FF going to hide the treasure. I ALSO believe FF used his imagination to write from the perspective of “I”. Sometimes, especially children’s authors write from the perspective of a deceased person, a person that never existed, an animal, etc. The words are his, but written from the perspective of who/what “I” represents.

            Seeker- I don’t know how to PM on this blog. Is that what you are talking about? You can Email me at lequia@sbcglobal.net

  84. @colokid no reply button so its going here

    I agree with your assessment that warm is an arbitrary measurement and halt is a bit arbitrary as well. (Nothing completely stops). It is worth considering. But with this clue (assuming you think it is the first clue) I’d not go too far off the reservation.

    You said: ” If I can make a generalization, this is pretty much how everyone approaches solving this clue….with references to some form of water and, more often then not, some reference to temperature. I don’t think anyone can make a good case that this is the best way to go.”

    Fenn Said ” I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues. To me that’s just expensive folly.”


    I would not say that this is a “perfect” but I would say its a “good case” for the best way to go. If this is the first clue at this point we might be better off not being “unique”. At this point It would have been confirmed that this ground has been well trodden.

    If you don’t think its the first clue and “more than several” other people both agree and have solved for a previous clue(s) you might be right.

  85. Dys,
    Not sure you understood me so I will explain further. First, I do believe that the poem line regarding WWWH is the first clue.

    You quoted fenn: ” I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues.”

    This can be read several ways. When he says “… have identified the first clue” does he mean, People have correctly identified which words in the poem contain the first clue or does he mean they have figured out geographically where to start, or both (know what line is the first clue and solved it to determine a starting point)? All we really know for sure from this quote is that knowing where to start is paramount or it is unlikely that you can determine the following clues without it.

    If we believe the WWWH line is the first clue then we need to solve that to determine the starting point for the search. This is where I’m at. So my question is: Is that line in the poem best solved using the traditional assumption that it refers to a literal body of water with certain temperature properties? I currently think no because there are too many choices for arbitrary “warm” bodies of water. And we have a large history of searchers applying this thinking with no success.

    So my suggestion is that these words must be thought of differently (less literally) to yield a named geographic place to start the search. In my view the terms “warm” and “waters halt” can be used conceptually to give the name of a place. I’m also of the opinion that this may be the only clue that needs to be solved that way…..in other words the rest of the clues may be more literal. Remember he said the clues get easier or less difficult. #1 is the crux and I think there’s where people continue to stumble. And, IMO, they stumble because they treat warm, water, and halt too literally.

  86. WWWH — where Luke Hoo halts?

    I’d like to ask Fenn — Is “waters” H²O ?

    At least I’d know “waters” is a wet substance and not a metaphor.

  87. Forrest has been telling us of those that got the first two clues for about 4 or 5 years now. IMHO those two clue people did not have these blogs to wrap there judge ment, to them, imho, waters was waters, as in wet. The first clue is stanza 1, then comes biwwwh, imo.

  88. In the poem there is the words “waters” and “water” one thought that comes to mind is ff has stated that “each clue moves you closer to the TC” so if we go with the flow so to speak waters’ is more general and less specific than water, seldom do you hear someone say “waters” like Moses parted the waters of the Red Sea” and in all my time on this earth I have only seen that particular saying exactly like this “where warm waters halt”.

    That one place I well know to fishermen, fisher people, and for many years it was required knowledge to all who seek cold water vs warm water species, which exits in all 4 states often it is spelled out distinctly in the various states proclamations and on some rivers/lakes signs are erected, do we really think someone like ff who’s life revolved around outdoors and him even becoming a fishing guide, would not use this as (HIS) frame of reference?

    An exact place, those exact words, is what we are looking for, right? Now stop fishing for catfish and bass and start hookin into trout, once you do that next step, clue, hint could be the key that unlocks the first step to a credible solve.

    Tom T

  89. I will offer up a suggestion on this topic. After coming up with a solve for Forrest Fenn’s poem I was analyzing WWWH and realized something. Forrest says, “Where Warm Waters (plural) Halt”, meaning where multiple sources of water stop. If it were one source of water (such as a river or stream) stopping would it not read “Where Warm Water (singular) Halts (Halts with an “s”)?

    • @Vinson – agreed in part. In my opinion, I believe he is wanting to emphasize the singular word “halt” by making “waters” a plural, supported by the subsequent almost-rhyme “walk”. As such, I then believe “halt” is extremely significant, and would match a deformed homonym for “Haute”.

      There exists a location in Madagascar related to a 16th century pirate story named La Buse which is named locally in Malagasy for its warm water springs. If you believe Fenn has buried homonyms in his poem, it’s worth having a closer look.

      • E.C. Waters, I don’t know how you come up with this stuff but you have some brilliant ideas. I’ve been thinking that halt could mean crippled or lame, but had not considered a deformed or “crippled” homonym. I like it! Not sure if I’m going with it but I like that it fits two of my partial solves. Very interesting thought!

        • @Puzzled – I understand your synonym comparison for halting and lame with regard to metrical verse. However, deformed in this context is used to describe what happens to words as they transform away from their original sounds and meanings using “linguistic corruption”. It happens a lot in developing multi-cultural settings, such as with French trappers, local Native Anericans, and American and Spanish explorers. But for the purpose of Fenn-speak, I will use the more popular descriptive “eggcorn” going forward, although I am certain Fenn has been intentional with his word choices. I also happen to believe his word choices contain homonyms, and in some cases homophones, per his instruction to us to hear and listen.

          Funny, though, Cripple Creek or what was once labeled as Cripple Creek if even mistakenly, is also very much part of my solution for “no paddle up your creek”.

          • @Puzzled – while I don’t believe there are multiple solutions to attempt, I very much DO believe in how probabilities will direct me toward investing into a reasonable solution. I will cheer you from the sideline in choosing your most probable “solve”.

    • Good point to consider Vinson. However, the word waters is also used to represent a large body of water. So its hard to know which meaning is intended here.

      • Puzzled , look below at my post. To figure out which meaning of the word to use, look at the root word or the archaic meaning of a word. That’s what I think Forrest is using. That way that word will last for a longer period of time. We think of a word and what it means today, but what it really means is the root word. Look at the old or Middle English meanings of the word. I have found that those meanings are linking up to Forrests stories and books.
        Hope this helps.

        • I use an Etymology Dictionary online to tell me the history and root of words.

  90. I am posting to try to help others with information if I can and to try to figure out WWH. There are a lot of smart minds on here, let’s do this!
    My wife says I need to quit with all the research so I want to help solve this if I could. WWH is most important. Without it finding the his special blaze is almost impossible. This is my opinion of course and don’t mean to sound if I know it all. Obviously I don’t or I would have the chest.
    Ok, if we start looking at the words and try to figure out the meaning of each word we find that each word has a lot of different meanings. Like bank. It is s river bank or financial institution.
    That’s why I believe Forrest used the root or archaic definitions of the word. The first meaning of the word . Forrest said in an interview that he used the free dictionaries so searchers would not have to spend money to look up words( paraphrased). This definition of the word would last a very long time, maybe forever.
    Here we go.

    Begin it at WWH and take it in the canyon down not too far but too far to walk.

    This is all one sentence and too figure out WWH,we need to use the full sentence.

    Halt means lame or limp.
    He shows us the old wagon in his yard, that’s called a cripple. TFTW cover has a man with a can or walking stick. If you are a cripple , limp or lame almost any distance is TFTW. He says in war for me that the old man walked with two walking sticks then his plane becomes crippled. He is refencing to WWH I think. Forrest and skippy hop on one leg while other foot is on car. Hop means limp.
    I am just trying to let you see he says and references lame, limp and cripple a lot.

    Next canyon means tube. Think of aqua duct or narrow groove or eaves spout like a gargoyle, that is an ancient eaves spout.
    Also he says John Wayne a lot, he is the Duke. Duke means a leader or duc as in a duct.

    Warm means timid.

    Like lame and limp means meek like a sheep , weak or wimpy.

    If we keep using the root words and Forrest likes roots. That’s what Hopi dolls are made of , cottonwood roots.
    I think we can figure out THE specific WWH.

    What’s everyone think?

    Am I crazy?

  91. Puzzled, I just looked up waters with an s. There are two definitions . 1) any body of sea or sea sharing the same common waters. Example Irish territorial waters.
    I live in Midwest and we call the norther Minnesota and southern Canada the boundary waterS.
    2) amniotic fluid around the womb, waters.

    I think I will look into # 2 a little more. The root word of sea is see. Hmmmm like seek, interesting.

  92. Just Thinking… The clues are supposed to be straight forward. Ask a child, look at the big picture, no knowledge of History, all you need is the poem, the book, and a good map. what if the child quote is more of a metaphor. so easy a child could understand it? take it in the canyon down, too far to walk, could be a hundred plus miles…? Maybe one clue is a reference in one line, and a location in another line… I think Fenn has beautifly written a poem that pits us against our imagination and fantasy, and defy’s our logic to resolve the simplicity of the solve. I will go BOTG in about a week and a half, and will post my theory and adventure to help the cause. But I strongly feel, that Fenn has made this more simplistic than we are making it to be….

  93. Dicks castle New York. Where Judy Garland halted the wicked witch of the west with warm waters.

  94. All,

    Took a break from the chase to clear my head after my humbling experience in YNP. I took the time to reflect on my previous ideas and search areas in hopes of finding those unmolested thoughts and theories, and wham one stood out among them all and hit me like a ton of bricks. I took this old theory and compared it with all my experiences and things I have learned and found what I believe to clearly be the WWWH.

    One of the things Forrest said has always stuck with me:

    “I looked up the meaning of words”

    A spark has been re-ignited.


    • Seannm – I’ve been on three search trips this year without success and I always feel a little let down when I don’t find the chest. However it doesn’t take long for me to start planning again. Glad you aren’t giving up.

    • Sean;

      Welcome back – Hope that your head is a lot clearer now.

      Hope that the spark that has been re-ignited is not the one
      that lit your last fire…..Just kidding.

      Welcome back, and GOOD LUCK.


      • JD,

        Thank you, and yes i believe it is clearer now. My new theory is much simpler and believe it or not, what I now believe to be the “blaze” has been posted on this sight and makes perfect sense when Forrest says some have been within 200ft and may have solved the first 4 clues but couldn’t be certain, even the timing fits.


        • @Seannm – welcome back. I can relate.

          Share your blaze, bruh, esp if it’s been mentioned here.

          • E.C.

            That I cannot do, its too good. The mention of it however, didn’t mention it as the a blaze unfortunately. What I will say is, that I took ff’s advice and went back to the beginning.


          • IMO – the “blaze” is a marked trail and probably is set-up in the open so it can be seen by the seeker – because it is so much easier to hide things in plain sight……and will be used throughout the path the seeker will take.

            For my search area, in what I think I have figured out what the “blaze is…..the “blaze” is also located at the beginning of the poem’s path. Coincidence?

            The latter reference to “if you found the blaze” reflects that you should have already found the blaze prior to even reaching this point in the puzzle.

            Clearly FF, is directing us to look for a marked trail early on in the poem……the one he marked and the one he took.

            Good luck!

  95. IMO any child can find “Old Faithful” and Firehole/madison canyon on a map…not far but to far and HOB there on a map but without knowing FF favorite places as a child/adult you will not know, hehehe now your almost there maybe a few miles and then close to the Blaze.

    • …and yet we see FF mentioning that the “blaze” should have already been found in order to begin the quest.


      Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze? ~ casey

      Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. Does that help?f

      “If you don’t know where the blaze is, it really doesn’t matter.” – FF

      One must find the blaze first.

      Good luck everyone!

      • I like this answer. Here’s a what IF. The descriptions in the poem refer to the blaze only. Doesn’t matter how you get there… directional from place to place or even a single spot single location… I’m strictly referring to the Blaze.

        What IF the blaze is an informational piece? It doesn’t show you where the chest is… it tells you. All we know for a fact is that the chest is in the RM’s. Would it be too far fetched to consider the clues to be outside or at the very least another state, within the four states, other than where the chest lays in wait?

        Where in the poem does it say you found the chest? if you use the clues [ I’m looking at the most common thought of clues ] what it seems to tell us is we need to find the blaze and do something else. Are we looking at the chest or the ‘answer’ to our quest?

        • I agree with this theory, because, FF is elusive….this poem has that level embedded within it.

          As for the poem being “informational piece”…there is quite a bit of info in the poem…and it does direct the seeker to somewhere.

          So yes…I agree. In the metaphoric way…..LOL…but then again FF love colloquialisms and what nots.

          “When does it say you’ve found the chest?”….well, “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze”….you are getting close.

          The poem says….”look quickly down your quest to cease”….IMO….stated….you are on a marked trail and the last marking should be in viewing distance of the chest.

          “The finder will go in confidence” – FF (paraphrased but pretty close)….but also aligns with discovering a marked trail and following it.

          “The solution is not impossible, just difficult.”….which to me says SOLVABLE.

          Trust me…. I have been completely enthralled with this for over four yrs now….and it really requires one’s mind to think like FF. He wrote it, we should think like Fenn.


          • “Think like Fenn.”

            Is that even…possible?

            Should we begin with the Universe? How about Egypt, pyramids and hieroglyphics?

            Then again…..there’s always a vast knowlege of chemistry, ecology, the wilderness, conservation, archeology, earth, world history, gemology, the animal kingdom, geology, Native America, the wild west, nature, nutrition, politics, technology, medicine, courage and aviation. Insofar as curiosity,
            imagination, the heart, family, loyalty, memories, generosity, music, emotion, passion, humor, friendships, good old common sense…. and love?

            Just for starters.

          • …and here you are typing on the computer…*winks*…..get to WORK!!


            Seriously….in order to figure this out….we need to. After all, he is the only one with the answers.


            Good Luck!

  96. Yes, the chest seems to be right at the blaze. Look down, wow, there it is. So that’s a good clue for the blaze. It killed one, maybe two blazes of mine. I refer to the question about distance from the blaze to the chest not being measured by Forrest, but its obvious if you find the blaze. I missed that when It first came out.

    • Musstag;

      To me when you said, “Look down, wow, there it is.” as an interpretation of the line that reads, “Look quickly down, your quest to cease,…” You left out the most critical word – “Quickly”. There are several definitions for this word, one of which, for me, is the most critical word in the poem. This definition tells the searcher not “how” to look, but “where” to look…a critical thing to know – at least in my opinion.

      Just a shared thought.

      Good luck in your search and STAY SAFE.


  97. This question is in ref to when Forrest said: “there are a lot of places WWWH and most of them are north of Santa Fe”

    Do you see this as a non-clue or something more?

    So does WWWH only happen in the Rockies? i.e. hot springs? The CD?

    Just looking for thoughts on this


    • Hi Clint — it’s important to get the whole quote for context, including the question that was asked. Phil Bayman’s question was: “Someone unfamiliar with your poem receives a message that says ‘meet me where warm waters halt, somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe.’ Would they be able to work out where to go? If they can’t, would they need the whole poem, another stanza, or just a line or word to help them on their way?”

      Forrest’s reply: “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure, Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts.”

      So I think Forrest is trying to emphasize that WWWH as an isolated clue is useless — there are just too many places that fit that generic description. You have to look at the “big picture” and narrow down those WWWH that work with the rest of the clues.

      To answer your second question, no — WWWH isn’t a feature unique to the Rockies. But since we know the treasure chest is somewhere in the Rockies, then nearly all of the instances of WWWH that are in the Rockies will be north of Santa Fe. This is pretty much a given since the Rockies do not extend quite as far south as Santa Fe. The Jemez Mountains represent the southern extreme of the Rockies, which I don’t think extend as far south as Santa Fe’s latitude.

  98. A couple thoughts for you all. Way back when, “January of 2015” , Forrest posted the floating hat “Mildew”. The story went like this…..”Her name was Mildew. She belonged to a guy named Dither, who spoke in a DRAWL that made him look taller. IMO, several clues to the poem are answered by reciting it using a drawl. WWWH turns into Where Warm Waters HAULED, in which I believe are “Tanks”, scattered around Tres.
    You could also consider Where Warm “friendly” WAITERS Halt. Ojo. And don’t forget to “Ta’ KIT in the canyon down. That would be Kit Carson Electric….they run the WARM WATTERS. Still working on the Rodger Waters conection, I’ll let you know how that one turns out.

    • If you are talking about Tres Piedras, then yes their are some water tanks up there in the mountains. The canyon down from there takes you below the Tusas mountains along the Tusas river. If you turn down road 42? IMO it could take you a short way to the spot. Or you can take the longer way up 111.
      I haven’t been there yet. But a few other searchers have.
      I avoid dirt roads as much as I can. So, good luck with that.

  99. Begin it wwwh and there are many places north of Santa Fe wwwh. I wondered for a long time how these statements could be understood, figured it out yesterday.

    • How were you able to complete your previous solves if you had not figured out wwwh until yesterday?

      Just a question


      • JD,
        I figured out wwwh back in February, what I couldn’t figure out is how there can be one to find and also so many other places wwwh. How was that possible?

        The answer just hit me yesterday while I was thinking about it. : )

        • Kedar’s Mom- I was mulling over your recent post. You questioned how there can be only one WWWH to find and yet there are so many places WWWH (most of them North of Sante Fe.)

          The very next thought that popped into my head was the answer. It seems so obvious now. I can see how a child might know. Can also see how the answer would leave someone who hadn’t thought of it to ask, “Why didn’t I think of that”.

          Well, this changes my solution completely. Why didn’t I see this sooner!

    • @ Kedar’s mom. Do not focus your energy on WWWH. It is of no consequence without the first clue on the poem which to me is the first stanza. Think of it this way Mr. Fenn mentioned making a cake,and the ingredients. But before making a cake don’t we have a mental picture of how the cake is going to look like, is it going to be chocolate, vanilla, strawberry flavor? What about where are we going to bake? How are we going to whisk the ingredients together manually or mechanically? Mr. Fenn is a simple person and he’s beating us with his simplicity, but we just do not understand how simplistic his mind works. Please do not misunderstand Mr. Fenn is a brilliant man,and his mind can go places most of us cannot follow, but I still think he enjoys his simple way of thinking most of all. It is my own opinion.RC.

      • RC,

        I disagree with your comment. If Kedar’s Mom has truly figured out the many places WWWH in the Rocky Mountains then it just becomes a process of deduction from there.

        Kedar’s Mom you have my email, drop me a Hello.


      • RC,

        Question posted 7/2/2014:
        “Do you think that someone who is sure about the location of the home of Brown could reverse-engineer where warm waters halt? ~Ben Raylor
        Thanks for the question Ben.
        If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt? But to answer your question, sure you could and a few searchers might throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take. Good luck.f”

        Unless hoB is the first clue, which imo is a possibility. It seems that If hoB is a later clue you don’t need to have the prior ingredients such as WWWH, Canyon or too far to walk. That is if those are first in the clue line…

        Huston we have a problem… how can we be at / know of hoB ~ not be concern with WWWH ~ Yet we won’t know if we have the first clue correct till we find the chest? when we are supposed to have the first clue nailed down and be certain of our path beforehand.

        Apollo 13 no worries, we’re working on the problem…

        • Seeker,


          Time Stamp: Approx 35:00

          I paraphrase: ” if a searcher was able to figure out the first three clues they could find the chest, it would be difficult” f

          If you like me subscribe to the idea that each sentence is a clue then the line “Put in below the home of Brown” would be the third clue.

          now go to this video:


          Time Stamp: 10:54

          “well that’s for you to figure out, if i told you that you would go right to the chest” f

          So logically if you “knew” who or what Brown was why would you be concerned with WWWH?


          • That still doesn’t answer why we would know the first clue to be correct if we don’t need to concern ourselves with the first after we have the next or the next…

            You make a good argument Seannm. Let rebuttal it with; We need to nail down the first clue… but won’t know we ave the first clue until we have the chest… which seems to say, you don’t know beforehand, which we were warn that we should know…
            So is WWWH tha actual first clue? or can ‘PUT IN’ below hob … a single sentences say all the above is below hoB. Remember fenn is writing a poem that ‘needs interpretation’ so…

            If I said, go to first street to get to second street and then third street, but you need to start at Broadway to do that… Are the clues or directions still in consecutive order? when you understand where you need to start.

            So if NFBTFTW is now below hoB ~ “From there” may have a new reference to work with. Fenn as stated three different things and I think we took them to mean the same thing. ” Need to know where to begin ‘ ~ know here to start ~ without the first clue you might as well stay home.

            Time Stamp: 10:54
            “well that’s for you to figure out, if i told you that you would go right to the chest” f

            This does make sense if we are certain beforehand that we nailed down the first clue.
            “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f


            Dear Forrest,
            You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:
            a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
            b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
            the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f
            No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?
            Your question reminds me of another:  You leave home and walk a straight line for a mile, turn 90 degrees left and walk a curved line for a mile and shoot a bear. Then you turn 90 degrees left again and walk a straight line back to your home. What color is the bear?f

            But yet we are warned; the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.

            Steve asked Do you think that we can confidently determine the ***starting place *** for your treasure trail? using wwwh for the starting clue / point.

            Seriouly, How many of us “ignore” the first clue? or “don’t dwell” on it enough? IF the first clue is actually WWWh?

            Just thinking possibilities…

          • Hi Seeker — one likely answer to your conundrum is that WWWH is not the first clue. If that’s the case, then without context, WWWH is useless to you since you’ve “skipped an ingredient”. This would explain Forrest’s answer when asked if all you had was “in the mountains north of Santa Fe” and “WWWH”: “No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence.” You can’t proceed with confidence because you’re missing at least one clue that precedes WWWH.

            If Wisconsin Mike’s statistics are representative of all searchers, then almost 70% have found something in the first stanza that guides their choice of WWWH, or at least narrows down the number of possibilities to something manageable.

          • Zap before I go, I’ll attempt to explain what you said, and of course, my opinion.

            There is no skipping an ingredient as you said. The possible ingredient is the CD. No place for the meek, or the Back bone of the RM’s. There are many wwwh in the RM’s and “nearly” all of them are N of SF… Nearly all are North.
            That concludes some are south, yet the range doesn’ go south… what does? and what is that, that help create the range and what does it take it in the canyon down? imo that is the context you thought might be missing… the area is huge, the spot is small, line of thinking.

            Put the after the facts comment together… look at word choice, not at clues/codes, secret messages to one or simplifying straightforwards as some think all those to be. That, and attempt to see what is being explained, instead of matching 9 clue to 9 places.

            Again, my intention is to look at other possibilities… Not once have I ever claimed My solve says this or that like a others keep pressing… I place thoughts for alternative readings only.

            Thanks for the quote zap.

          • Hi Seeker — the main difference between our approaches to unraveling the poem appears to be that you’re taking a more holistic view: that all the clues are in there, but you need to be clever about how you connect them all up. There is still a proper order to when a searcher will encounter the places/features that the clues refer to, but they aren’t necessarily in the poem in top-down order. So when he says you need to figure out the starting point and not obsess over later clues, you are taking the view that the starting point (or the clue for it) could actually appear anywhere in the poem. (Feel free to correct me if I have misinterpreted your architectural approach.)

            I, on the other hand, still think that not only are all the necessary ingredients in the poem, they are also “in order” (though I leave some discretion as to whether that order is top-down or bottom up). Just as a recipe is useless without knowing which ingredients are added first, second and third, not having the proper ordering of the clues could potentially direct you to 362,880 different places (9!).

            So when I spoke of skipping an ingredient, while it is not particularly germane to your system of deciphering the poem, it is critical to mine, or to anyone else who believes the clue order is maintained within the structure of the poem. So if it indeed turns out that WWWH is the 2nd or even 3rd clue, the searcher who believes it is the 1st should probably be brushing up on his or her canasta.

            I don’t have a 9-clue, 9-answer solution to Fenn’s poem. In fact I doubt it’s even possible to have the entire solution without being on site. But I think the first 2 or 3 clues might be enough to get you to the right starting location.

      • RC,

        My energies are focused on patience while I wait to go back and have a look. Imo I have solved all nine clues and for me it only took five clues to figure out where the blaze is, the other four clues were confirmation of the location.

        Hello Seannm,
        I do not have your email. : )

        I went out looking for treasures yesterday, found a picture of the Twin Towers taken in 2001. I’m always on the hunt.

  100. @Seeker,

    The key word in that persons questions was “Sure” if they were 100% positive that they knew Brown, why would they concern themselves with WWWH. Now I am of the opinion that it is impossible to figure out Brown without first knowing WWWH, but this question was just a hypothetical and Forrest was just answering that hypothetical question.


    Forrest Fenn says:
    March 24, 2016 at 3:56 pm

    A hypothetical example of a “what if” might be, what if I was looking so far ahead that I neglected to notice what was beside me.


    • Seannm,

      That is a perfect quote to think about. Now take all the other after the fact comments and look at them closely… Try not think of straightforwards for a moment, and see the word choice fenn used. My example of hoB as to say all prior info is to be placed below is exactly what I see in this quote of what IF.
      Why can’t little Indy “get closer” If we think about the words “can not get closer” logically you are as close as you can be at that point. Why did all the searcher who indicated to fenn where they were.. go by all the other clues and the chest… logically They didn’t need to go farther, but that is exactly what they did…they kept going…. what if I was looking SO FAR AHEAD… I neglected to NOTICE what was BEHIND ME.

      Searcher have been within 200′ of the chest but didn’t know it. They are the same ones who didn’t know they were at the first two clues, and the same clues that Little INDY or someone from fenn pops home town etc. Can not get closer to the chest…

      We have been told [ don’t have the exact quote ] but for discussion purpose… the area is huge, the spot is small.

      If I was to say… WWWH, canyon down, NFBTFTW is a huge area, and it sits above and below hoB you might think Seekers lost it… What I’m saying is hoB tells where they are need to be and be understood… FROM THERE… is where you need to be, no place for the meek.
      This won’t be understood by those who can’t get around straightforwards as they hope it means, nor consecutive order as ‘stacking clues’. The clue IMO are in order the way fenn wanted to explain to us… not unlike my example of 1st, 2nd, 3rd streets and Broadway.
      The “poem” still needs Interpretation and not just finding clues. and this leads to, why we shouldn’t count clues imo, The poem contains 9 clues, and the poem contains 9 sentences… logical deduction is the entire poem is needed for all the clues [ no number count ] We, the readers over simplify what fenn means as a clue. and over complicate it by researching unknown that don’t need to be know.

      Fenn indicated all the words were deliberate. Counting 9 lines is guess work… that leaves 15 lines not really used? fenn also stated that not all the words will get you to the chest, but would be unwise to discount them… That’s at least 83 words not involved with the 9 line 9 clue theory… where is the logic in that math?

      Are any of my suggestion above true? Well, which seems more reasonable… 9 line for clues or the entire poem for clues?
      Is straightforwards misunderstood? or is it simply Stacking the clues? are after the fact clues and hints or wording to make us think of WhatIF’s?

      Fenn also answer in a Q&A [paraphrasing for time] If you don’t know where you are going any trail will take you there. Sarcasm or clever in word choice?
      Fenn also said…If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.
      Well, what about the distance of the clues???

      Think about those two Q&A’s for a few minutes… as well as the others.

      Later…………………Seeker, I’m going on vacation.

      • I am not sure that I have ever seen anyone say that 9 LINES = 9 clues. All that I have seen is 9 Sentences = 9 clues.

        9 lines = nine clues, I agree, makes NO sense – this does leave a LOT of unused words.

        9 sentences = 9 clues = use ALL of the words. This is logical to me.

        Just my opinion.


  101. IMO, What’s funny is how searchers keep posting comments what the clues are and telling others the right answers but the TC is still there for the taking..Fact, the only person who knows all the clues and location of TC is FF so why do you searches keep asking each other what is the first clue…IMO, the first clue is “Begin it WWWH, second, “And take it in the canyon down.”, third, “Not far, but too far to walk.”, fourth, “Put in below the home of Brown.” fith, “From there it’s no place for the meek.”, sixth, “The end is ever drawing nigh.”, seventh, “There’ll be no paddle up your creek.”, eight, “Just heavy loads and water high.”, ninth, “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze. Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
    But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
    Just take the chest and go in peace.”
    IMHO, clue #1 begins in Wyoming and clue #9 ends in the treasure state…clue #2 in part of Wyoming and Montana, clue #3-9 are in Montana…now it’s time to put BOTG..I wonder if FF wants to go back to his favorite spot which is “put in below HOB”, (fall is best time), summer time pools are to warm..remember only FF knows were the TC is but we searches all have our own opinons..

    • Woody;

      I respect your decision to ignore stanzas #1,5 and6, but think that you are skipping a lot of words, and Forrest has said something to the effect of skip them at your own peril.

      Just my opinion.

      Good luck to both you and Jake in your searches, and TRY to STAY SAFE


      • Thanks JD,
        I like the clues in the poem this way because it seems logical to me.
        You have to find out WWWH.
        You have to find the canyon.
        You have to find HOB & put in there.
        You have to find no place for the meek.
        You have to find out where the end is ever drawing nigh.
        You have to find your creek.
        You have to find out what heavy loads are.
        You have to find out what water high is.
        You to find out what the blaze is.
        Everything else does not leave any questions for me except: As I have gone alone in there. Where is there? Where the treasure is.
        Just my opinion.

          • Thanks inthechaseto,
            It all makes perfect sense until it goes poof!
            But I will say that it all matches my solve except for what HOB is & of course, I don’t have the treasure.

        • I agree, the lines that you refer to are clues that lead you on a path- – – a path that COULD lead you to the treasure.

          Where is “in there”? for me the last stanza tells you where “in there is.”, and to me this is important.

          Stanza #5 tells us WHY Forrest felt the need to hide his treasure, and also why it is important to know, within ourselves, why it is important that he hid it, and why it is important that we find it. If it were not important, I do not think Forrest would have put it there. Is it a clue as in a direction as to how to locate the treasure? Probably not, but important none the less.

          The last stanza – “…Listen good and effort and worth the cold and brave and in the wood and title to the gold” ALL of these words provide critical information. Yes, I think that these lines are “directional” in helping to locate the treasure, and should not be ignored.

          Just an opinion – yet unproven.

          Good luck Jake and TRY to STAY SAFE.


          • Yes JD, they’re all unproven.
            I think all the stanzas are important & have some sort of information.
            As long as you follow the clues in consecutive order, you should be fine.
            I’ll bet you can’t wait till the 23rd.
            I was checking the rivers around my area & notice they haven’t gone down enough yet. I don’t think me & my bro are going to be able to go this year, but that might be a moot point if you or someone else finds it.
            I am going to look around to see who is willing, able & in better monetary shape than us.

          • Sorry you may bot be able to put BOTG again this year.

            My waters are subsiding nicely. They do not reach “Lowest Levels”
            until September, but I think that we will be OK on the 23rd…we shall see.


    • Woody, why do you say that fall is the best time?
      Is this from something Forrest has said?

      What about spring and summer?

      • Buckeye Bob, no FF to my knowledge never said “fall is best time” however he did say “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze.”.fall because that is the prettiest time of year and that’s when the water is cold for the Browns to come out and play

  102. Yea, Jake your right the difference is you have put BOTG after I put BOTG I might adjust closier to you…hehehe

  103. I think I know WWWH!!! Was dancing around the room when I figured it out last night! Had been mulling over a statement Kedar’s Mom made a couple of days ago. She said that she figured it out in February and at first didn’t understand how there can be one place for us to find and yet there are “lots of places WWWH and most of them are north of Sante Fe” (FF-hope I got the quote right). All of a sudden, everything I have been reading, studying and learning about the RM as well as the chapters in TTOTC just clicked and it all came together and I could understand why FF says to look at the “big picture”. I get why he says wait til the snow melts to search. I get it! Everything I have been thinking about WWWH came together to make sense. Since the first time I read the poem, I thought WWWH had to be a distinctive place like no other. I had a list of things I thought should be true of WWWH. I’m checking off the list. Figured it had to be a place distinctive of any other place that waters slow, fall, rise, etc.- check! And I thought it had to fit with the clues in stanzas 1, 5, 6- check! And, I thought it had to fit with the key word. check! Had to fit every clue FF has possibly suggested in interviews and outside comments- check!

    I keep hearing that the chapter ‘My War for Me’ is an important chapter in figuring out WWWH. Well, I didn’t fall for the waterfall theory that seems to be so popular from that chapter. (still don’t). Although, that story does contain very useful hints (imo). And let me just throw in here that a recent discussion about that chapter has included thoughts on why the photo of Peggy modeling a swim suit is in the chapter as some thought it was out of place. Let me just say, it wasn’t out of place. I understand it now even though I didn’t care in the least when the discussion was happening. Several other stories in TTOTC also contain helpful hints (imo) It is the way the hints fit together that gives me the answer. And I thank Kedar’s Mom for her simple comment that really didn’t give a clue but somehow helped me see how everything I had previously thought about WWWH really comes together to make sense and I can see the “big picture” FF has been telling us to look at.

    I finally get it! It is so simple that a child could possibly know. I get it!!! (all imo of course).

      • I’m wondering if either of you actually have a WWWH, or just have the clue figured out bit not the exact answer?

          • Kedar’s Mom- Do you know who “I” is in stanzas 1, 5, 6? I realize it is Fenn speaking, but there is a second “I” that has been “alone in there”. I figured out “I” quite a while ago and now I finally can see how “I” went “alone in there” and this fits with stanzas 1, 5, 6. If you don’t know, and you do understand WWWH, then think about who/what could go alone in WWWH and it will help you.

          • ok Kedar’s Mom, Congrats on knowing all clues..I hope you find the TC…What state do you think it is in? me I think it’s in Montana

          • See, I too have a solve. But in mine I don’t definitely have “the Blaze”, but maybe from seeing something on Google Earth. I’m just not certain. But it would be in the area anyways.
            On top of having it all figured out, very strongly, all the way to the Balze, I have a bunch of things Forrest has written both in his book and in his weekly hints that line up with it all. That makes my solve extremely strong, in my opinion of course.

            And I too saw a post the other day that made me wince a little, and I was keeping my eyes open.
            Then I saw your post, and I experienced the fear of God a little, lol.

            And then, after that, someone else posted something that added to that fear of the almighty some more. This has made me worried on my end, although I still wish luck to whoever might beat me to it. I think it might be fate.

            But I can’t say anything more without opening up the possibility of yet more competition. So no matter how curious I am, I’m stuck in waiting mode.

            We may or may not be on the same thing, time will tell.
            And with that, I wish good luck and safe keeping to both of you.

          • Ah..puzzled. I’m going to be a little more tight lipped around here. From your statement I do not think you have the same wwwh as me. So what? It’s all in the thrill of the chase.
            Happy hunting.

          • Hi Puzzled,

            Above you asked Kedar’s Mom, “Do you know who “I” is in stanzas 1, 5, 6? I realize it is Fenn speaking, but there is a second “I” that has been “alone in there”. I figured out “I” quite a while ago and now I finally can see how “I” went “alone in there” and this fits with stanzas 1, 5, 6.”

            There are a number of reasonable “unexpected” possibilities. Many have played with the idea that the “I” could just be Indulgence:

            I’ve gone alone in there: the place Forrest deposited Indulgence.
            And with my treasures bold: the cache of goodies within Indulgence.

            But I know this isn’t your “I”, and it doesn’t work with stanza 5, so the stanza 1 and 5 “I”s would have to be different.

            Another somewhat obvious “I” is from the perspective of a spawning trout (brown or otherwise): treasures bold being the eggs. Works better with stanza 5: fish is tired and weak after its long journey upstream. Works great with stanza 3: the end quite literally is drawing nigh, both the journey and the trout’s life. No paddle up the creek for a fish, of course. And a heavy load of eggs.

            But even supposing all that, the generic life-cycle of a trout doesn’t give the searcher a specific location. So again, I suspect your “I” is still something else.

          • You are right zaphod. “I” isn’t any of the things you mentioned.
            My characteristics of “I”
            “I” has “gone alone in there” (in WWWH)
            “I” has “treasures bold”
            “I” “can keep my “secrets where”
            “I” has been “where warm waters halt”
            “I” is “tired” and “weak”
            “I” “must go”
            “I” must “leave my trove”

            If you discover “I” you will understand why a child would know.

            There is only one WWWH that matters, and if you understand what WWWH is, you won’t need to guess. My guesses where good! But, they were just good guesses. Once I figured out WWWH, it only took me 2 minutes to find it on the map and it is not in one of my previous search locations. Hadn’t previously studied it at all. Remember that in a recent interview, Fenn said that you just “need to think”!

            All in my opinion of course.

          • Puzzled: I was about to post an update on the statistics of where people are searching. Are you still half in WY and half in CO? (Last I checked you had 2 possibilities in each state, and weren’t keen on NM, though left open the possibility of changing your mind.)

          • Puzzled, btw, I have a suspicion of what your “I” is, but by itself it’s not helpful in pointing to Fenn’s specific WWWH. If I’m right, it’s not a person or a place, and you would have a hard time answering whether it was animal, vegetable or mineral, correct?

          • Zaphod, you said, “you would have a hard time answering whether it was animal, vegetable or mineral, correct?” No zaphod, that question has an easy answer. Can’t share it though. And, it IS helpful in answering WWWH. “I” knows where warm waters halt”. “I” has been “alone in there”

          • Ojo: spanish for eye (get it). Jake’s going for the double-meaning with Ojo Caliente. 🙂

          • Puzzled: I see my question left a loophole that Fenn could have exploited by answering the multiple choice question with a simple yes or no. I would answer “no” if I was being cagey. My “I” fits all your points and it actually appears in at least one of the nearly 700 posts on this page. But if it’s different from yours, that’s fine.

    • You’re rambling, man.
      Snap out of it.
      (slap) (slap)

      lol, good luck, Puzzled.

    • Puzzled;

      I wish you the very best in your search. Those AH-HA moments are rare and far between. Let’s hope that this one puts you on the path that leads to the treasure.

      We, as searchers, really DO NEED TO FIND IT!!!

      Again Good luck, and TRY to STAY SAFE


      • Well, obviously I’m excited! It was an “ah-hah” moment. I’ve strained my brain for months and suddenly it all clicked and it was very exciting! When you figure it out, I will be excited for you as well!

        Back to the poem. Knowing WWWH doesn’t solve the poem. Lots more work to do.

        • True Puzzled,
          Knowing WWWH does not give you title to the gold.
          We all know that.
          I would say there have been hundreds of thousands of people that pass by WWWH & all did not know.

          • Jake F- Those who passed by WWWH and did not know, where those who thought they knew, but their WWWH was not correct. It just placed them in the right spot and they never knew that they passed right by the real WWWH. It HAS TO BE A DISTINCTIVE PLACE. There are people who think it is one thing, but there are hundreds of that one thing and this leads them to search repeatedly all of the places where that one thing can be found. If you know WWWH, then it isn’t necessary to guess among all the hundreds of other places just like the one you think it is. If that is what you are doing in your search, spend some time thinking before you search more. FF says you have to “think”!

      • Puzzled & Zap, following double meanings is fun. Here’s another Spanish/English Y = And, Why = porque>> porky.

    • The reason why WWWH and HOB are related IMO is because of terms like “Blue Ribbon” and “World Class” as they relate to a specific activity that FF and his father and many past generations were more and more well versed in from a very early age.

    • You can find WWWH on the TFTW map. At least the area it’s in. Once you have the other clues, WWWH doesn’t matter.

  104. The place I believe to be WWWH is definitely in the RM’s and not in a dangerous location. It is also a place where millions each year halt and not because of the scenery.

    • @Hear me all – the stop sign at North Luke Road in Yellowstone next to Fishing Bridge? I started here once upon a time.

      • E.C. Waters – It’s not in YNP. Forrest told us what WWWH was but not the actual location the poem is referencing. I was able to find WWWH with a good map. The other clues fall into place if you start at WWWH. I do have a complete solve but I’m working on some other possibilities in case that one falls through. After HOB, one could take a number of different directions but only one is correct so that is why I’m trying to make sure I pick the correct path this time. .

        • Hear me all;

          I agree, it is NOT in YNP – Sorry E.C.

          I do NOT agree that after hoB there are several possible paths. For me, there is only one possible path – and that single path leads to the TC (I hope)

          Good luck and TRY to STAY SAFE


          • JD – Have you used imagination in your solve? I think Forrest has made comment a time or two that imagination is very important in figuring out the poem. That leads me to believe that things are what the seem. Example, maybe water is not involved. I sure hope you have a good report after your next search. I think all searchers would love to see the chest found sooner rather than years down the road. I also think Forrest would be pretty proud that someone could figure out his poem and clues.

          • “I imagine so” – YES, I used logic AND imagination in developing my solve. Sorry I can not be more specific yet, but the short answer is “YES”


          • I have been using Google Earth to ponder how BLAZE relates to the setting sun playing on canyon walls to help ancient people choose hunting and semi-permanent camping sites. I saw how some winding tributary gullies leading into canyons seem to light one wall at sundown and the opposite at sunrise clear to the bottom of these types of gorges. I may see why FF says to carry a flashlight. IMO He must have been at the site before the day he put the TC there. Our modern Indiana Jones may surprise the finder with an entire ancient “unknown” cliff dwelling site. Marvel scant indeed!

        • Hear me all;

          You say, “Forrest told us what WWWH was but not the actual location the poem is referencing.”

          I disagree I think that Forrest has not only told us what wwwh is, but I think that he has in-fact told us the general AREA of where the wwwh is. It IS in the poem.

          Just my opinion


          • When did Mr. Fenn tell us what WWWH is? I don’t recall him saying that.

            Thanks, Windy City

          • JD: Thanks for the clarification. I misunderstood your post. I thought you meant that he made a statement in a Q&A somewhere that I had missed.

            Good luck in your upcoming search. Be safe up in em thar mountains.

            Godspeed, Windy City

          • Jake – Sounds like you’re one of a limited number of searchers who is entered in the dart tournament and the pot is huge!

        • Hi – Here me all, do you really think he would be proud, my whole life as been spent trying to make my father proud and I suppose he his, but he has never said it, you saying this brings tears to my eyes, I so hope he’s proud.

          • It wasn’t my father, but my mother that I could never please. How sad!

            She died some years ago, and I was NEVER able to meet her expectations, again, HOW SAD


          • silentfly,
            Just because he never said it, doesn’t mean he is not proud of you.
            Sometimes we do not like to show our true feelings until it’s too late.
            Try to tear the wall down & ask him if he’s still with us.
            Ask the question…..

          • Silentfly – I do think he would be proud of you. Some other thoughts I have also had. Forrest eludes that he felt pretty inadequate compared to his own father. Marvin spent his life educating others and got to see the rewards of his efforts when the school children grew up. I don’t think Forrest felt like he spent his life making an impact like his father had. However by hiding the chest, Forrest has impacted people in many different ways. In a way he is educating us. He has opened up a new world for some with exploration, learning, reading, spending time with families and friends, enjoying nature, imagination, and so many others. I think Marvin would have been very proud of the impact that Forrest is making on the world. I also think Forrest will be proud of the person who puts forth the effort to figure out the poem because it will show that they have paid attention to the teacher.

  105. Timothy;

    My first three solves, which I have never discussed on this blog were in Montana…all three duds. On December 31, 2015, I crossed the border into Wyoming. I developed Wyoming solve #1, and it ended up on private land and was tossed. My second Wyoming solve = NO TREASURE. So it was tossed. This is Wyoming solve #3…and this is the winner – I HOPE.

    Bone up on your Humble Pie and Crow recipes. I MAY (but I hope not) have to eat them in a couple of weeks.

    Take care, happy hunting, and TRY to STAY SAFE


  106. Well said, Hear me all. I’m guessing that his father was very proud of Forrest, but it was a different era. Few fathers expressed how proud they were, but you knew when they weren’t pleased. No educational system understood different methods of learning that are commonplace with educators today. I would have hated if my father worked at my school, and worse yet if he was the Principal.

    Just like the movie “A River Runs Through It” a day on the river brings father and son together, washing away unpleasantries.

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