Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Seven


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638 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Seven

  1. Hello Dal. Thank you for starting a new page. I greatly appreciate it. Hello onuat and others who will follow. What shall be the “On Topic” discussion(s) for this “Odds & Ends” page? ๐Ÿ™‚

    • You are always so friendly. Do you go out and chase much or do you just help people with questions on this site? If you do chase you seem like someone that deserves to find the chest. Who knows if Fenn knew how much of a nice person you are he may have hidden it right in your back yard just for you.

      • Hello ACE. Thank you so much for the complement. You have my eyes watering. I have gone chasing a few times over the past couple years. I hope to do so again this year. I’ve enjoyed the memories of each one. Helping others puts a smile on my face and a warmth deep down inside. It’s is so nice of you to think Mr. Fenn would have hidden the treasure chest in my back yard, but alas, he has not. It is for everyone to seek. ๐Ÿ™‚

  2. Who wants to stay on topic??? That’s no fun!!! I see those gnomes must have gotten to Dal. He had to start a new page… Guess they weren’t high fiving enough for him! Or they must have gotten too full on those smaller gnomes.. I mean everyone knows gnome cannibalism is a real thing…

    • Hello LitterateOne. It may be that others are getting their sneakers on and ready to sprint out the door. They have their nine clues in mind and it’s nearly that time to find them. ๐Ÿ™‚

  3. What are the odds there will be an end to this horse race? It would be fun to know. I’m surprised some bookie or statistician hasn’t posted the odds given the TTOTC is world renown.

    • I tried to calculate the odds of finding a 10″ x 10″ box in the whole of the Rockies back when the Powerball was so huge and came up with a number that far eclipsed the odds of winning the lotto.

      Then someone came in and pointed out, correctly, that I was thinking linear feet per mile and not square, and the corrected number was even bigger. So randomly checking every square foot, the odds are astronomical.

      Then it was pointed out that we have clues to help guide our way.

      However, a simple “go left or go right” decision at each clue still leaves us with a 2 to the 9th power number of 512 possible locations. It gets exponentially crazy from there. A mere 4 choices (N, S, W, E) at each of the nine clues (4 to the 9th power) yields 262,144 possible locations for that chest!

      No one should ever feel bad looking for it and not finding it. You faced extraordinary odds and still rose to the occasion.

      • When I try and calculate the odds its one out of the whole search community. Fenn made a comment of 65,000 searchers at one time that would give an individual approximately .0015%. The search number has gone up since than. I try and remember only one will find the chest.

        • I see you count in Roman numerals ๐Ÿ™‚ Have you considered the possibility of 0, no one finding it?

          • Yes I have considered the possibility that no one finds it(or no one finds it in my life time) ๐Ÿ™‚ . But all this brings the bigger greater question if it is found when? And how long into the future until none of the clues physically exist?

          • Hmm… none of the clues? I think if the canyon is a literal canyon that might stick around awhile. If it’s metaphorical or something like that, who knows?

          • Hello Jeremy P. If I’m not mistaken, I believe I read/heard in which Mr. Fenn said there are no metaphors involved. I may be wrong, but I don’t believe I am.

          • I’d have to read that one pdenver. A poem without metaphors is like a computer manual <– that's a simile. ๐Ÿ™‚ <– that's a smiley.

        • Hello Jeremy P. Certainly plausible. I wish I could remember which site I read/heard this. I think somewhere in Media Coverage, but not positive. Maybe it’s my mind short-circuiting. Information overload. ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Hello spallies. Thank you so much for finding this for me. I greatly appreciate it. Glad to know it wasn’t all in my head. Well, it was, but you know what I mean. ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Lol pdenver I know what you mean I was starting to think it was all in my head too because I could not find it in HOD’s media section (I just found the the audio version) I swear I had seen it before and it was REAL. So I did the logical thing and Googled it and I found it posted on Youtube from “A GypsyKiss”. ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Hello spallies. Embarrassing to know I viewed this video last week. I believe I forwarded it to another searcher to help them with something.

          • The question in that video was “metaphysical”, a term used in philosophy. Not “metaphorical”, a term used in writing poetry.

          • Plus, I’m agreeing with you. The canyon is probably a literal canyon. Not so sure about the other ones.

          • Here’s an example of a metaphor:

            The long now days are measured in shifting sands as it lies beneath Richard Brook.

    • I figure it’s 50/50. It’s either at the point or not. I checked my backyard near Chicago but I’m 0 for 1.

  4. Hello Michael. I believe it may depend on each individual’s thoughts. Some may feel absolutely some form of water, while others may feel one may have to travel along side water. Perhaps no water at all. Some feel the waters may be seasonal. Can one truly determine the answer to the question without having possession of the treasure chest? My personal thought? It may depend on Mother Nature.

    • I’m one of those who do believe water is involved in some way, maybe even more than one way. I’m not sure whether we have to cross water to get to the chest but I did just that on my first search – and I was pretty confident with that one. ๐Ÿ™‚ I’m still struggling with the last few clues although I like my solution for the first part.

      • Hello CJinCA. In one of my searches, I felt water was involved. My son offered to go into a shallow pond wearing waders. His pair is much too tall for my short stature, or else I would have done so. There he squatted in the middle of the cold pond, turning rocks, wearing no waterproof gloves. Taking occasional breaks to warm up his numb hands. I have photos of this journey, along with him searching in the water. I feel bad he went in for me. What memories my family made that day. ๐Ÿ™‚

  5. IMHO water is the central theme of the poem (aside from the precious, of course)…

  6. IMO, the canyon down has waters in it that are no place for the meek, and the home of Brown involves water, but you never have to actually get wet…I will find out tomorrow…

  7. I should have wondered if an 80 year old man would cross a creek while holding a 42 pound box. A small creek is likely if F were to cross it. But a river like the Red River, Rio Pueblo de Taos, Pecos, etc. would be unlikely to cross on foot, wading. Which suits me because I can’t cross on foot. Unless there is a bridge.

    • Remember he made two trips so each trip would have been in the 20-22 pound range.

    • MH… thanks for this comment. Forrest (has said) made 2 trips, TC and then theasure to place in. However, your statement makes me rethink “the route” to my location just a tiny little bit.

  8. Michael, i agree the canyon down has water and the HOB u dont have to get wet..IMO, however no pl for the meek u could get Wet…enjoy your adventure and hope you share..remembrer TC is wet

  9. Was the only physical action performed by Forrest ‘that’ day…. was when he hid the chest?

    His memory of years gone by spent in the great outdoors; must be very keen if that should be the case.

    Very keen.


    • Exactly SL.

      Should one undertake a journey more than a few miles with two trips up and back… they should rethink their solution. Some of these canyons to descend folks talk about are close that, in a one way trip. And they still want to cross creeks and rivers… travel 10 miles or more between clues etc. If the person knows where the spot the chest lays in wait… a lot folks seem to think they know… why all the traveling?

      We can sit here and argue /debate about little Indy, and the not knowing if you have the first clue correct until you have the chest. But we have been told you can get the chest in almost any weather [ common sense is needed here folks ] and we should know the path beforehand. I just don’t understand the 10 miles or even 92 miles of travel [ by any means ] if fenn walked to the chest twice in a few miles? Maybe a strong able body person could heft a 42lb chest with little trouble, that would knock out one of those two trip… so…

      • Hello Seeker. Should we “rethink our solution” or consider the possibility of what Mr. Fenn was truly capable of doing? I believe going back and reading/listening to what he has stated may be helpful.

    • Hello SL. If I’m not mistaken, I believe it was stated it took him two trips from his vehicle, in one afternoon, to hide the treasure chest. If I am wrong, I hope others will correct me, please.

      • IIRC, F didn’t necessarily traverse the entire map from start to finish in an afternoon. He drove to the location then took two trips from the vehicle. Check under the seat of that Ford Explorer!!!

          • my pleasure PD ๐Ÿ™‚
            nice job of encouraging people around here. the new season of exploration is drawing near.

          • Hello Magic 8. Thank you for your kind words. I greatly appreciate it. The new season is drawing near and it’s amazing to see how excited everyone is because of it. ๐Ÿ™‚

  10. It seems the rabbit hole goes deeper and deeper the more I follow…. So much so, I’m so lost and confused I don’t know what to do anymore…

        • I did something similar. Picked several locations and decided to check each out and see how the clues fall.

          One location in particular, I was “rooting” against being the correct solution. There were a couple others I thought would be really clever. Low and behold, my nemesis solution told me I was #1 with two fists. ๐Ÿ™‚

          Search on my brothers and sisters!

    • Hello JohnCena. May I suggest to take a deep breath and go back and reread the poem. If you still feel confident in the direction you’re going, follow it. There’s been many times I’ve asked myself, “What if?”

      • Yeah, pretty sure I’m following the right trail… I’ve even found the place for the “title”… but it seems fake… at best like a distraction…

  11. sub.scribe. I truly do not believe it is not too far from Forrest’s home!!! Also it is in some sort if display or place it would not look out of place or not look like it was supposed to be there but a clever place….Good luck!!

    • That’s what I think too. I used to think it was YNP or the vicinity. Even took a trip there, but the more I read the book and think about it, I believe, IMO, that it’s in NM. Probably around TAOS.
      Even stayed at Bandalier last year looking in that area.

    • Hilarious! That was not exactly the most difficult to understand post about where not to look for anything but the treasure.

  12. Michael Hendrickson, I have crossed all of those rivers on foot except for the Pecos. Those rivers are tiny (most of the year, but not round the year). Unless you are an ant, then they are huge all of the time. BTW, it is snowing here in LA. Just another bump in the road I guess. Treasure hunting season may have just been set back a few more days.

    • Gazed into my magic 8 ball which replied “Most Likely”

      Good luck to you CB and be safe.

      • Thank you Magic 8, I think I still have my magic 8 ball packed away in a closet somewhere ๐Ÿ™‚ I’ve already been to my search location once. I even found an odd rock there with specks of gold in it. At least it looks like gold when the sun hits it. The next time I visit there it will be on vacation. It’s a magical place and I can’t wait to go exploring.

  13. Hi All – Add my name to the list who knew exactly where the treasure was……but wasn’t. It’s humbling.

  14. Well, I guess you can ALMOST add me to the list.

    Have just returned from “My Spot”. I have not given
    up on this spot yet. There was too much ice and snow
    to do the kind of search that was needed.

    I will give it another month, and then return.

    Jake – I guess I owe you another dollar, but it is not
    over till it is over and I wave the white flag.

    Good luck to all in their searches – STAY SAFE


    • Well JD,
      I give you credit for putting your money where your mouth is.
      You know the saying, put up or shut up.
      You put up & no, I am not shutting up just yet.
      I hope we will have many more opertunities to break even.
      Even better, walk away with the treasure.
      Seeing, it appears no one else has achieved this goal, the odds should decrease after each failed attempt for that searcher.
      I think JP, 42 & The Count were trying to get a grasp on the odds.
      Our odds get better if we stick to the same numbers for the same lottery ever drawing nigh.
      In order for there to be odds, you need players involved that are active BOTG searchers which we have had for 5 years? Each searcher would have there own individual odds based on information that we know of.
      A specific time window would be helpful in the calculations.
      I would love to know of all the areas the searchers have made to get a better idea on how to calculate the odds.
      I need to call my book & get him involved.
      What are the odds? 2,696,000 : 2; Forrest’s sacrifice, is a gazillion to 1. How many other people have hid a treasure of this magnitude? I can only think of one at this moment.
      Just remember, the house almost always wins in the long run.
      It is a gamble either way you look at it. Most will come out winners without the chest.

  15. Hi JD – Tried to reach out to you via email but it was auto rejected. Glad to see you home and safe. The weather system looks extremely nasty out there currently. I had planned to be there tomorrow but cancelled flights due to weather fronts. Wife also wanted me here in case the foot of snow actually does hit here at home.

  16. HviteUlf;

    Sorry you could not make it out. If it helps separate up –
    I had NO snow at my site yesterday, the day before, and
    none expected today. Light snow on continental divide,
    but nothing dramatic.

    Good luck on your search.

    Sorry you could not reach me by email


  17. Well, I got within a mile of my spot and ran into a huge deep snow drift. I chained up all fours and took a run at it. I made it about a hundred yards, bogged down, and sank to the frame. After about three hours of shoveling, sweating, and chopping pine boughs to throw under the tires, I got LUCKY, and sucked the truck out of there. Soaked with sweat, and wet from laying in the snow to dig out under the frame, the wind began to blow 20 mph or so. I became concerned about hypothermia, and trees blowing down across the road, so I performed a ten point turn in the middle of the drift, and came back to my hotel. I will return tomorrow, and walk the last mile…angry with myself for forgetting my backpack at home!! Going shopping for a second hand store now.

    Michael D

    • Michael, I don’t mean to sound like your mother but be careful out there!!! Make sure you have extra supplies in your truck and supplies on you if you are walking and if you are walking be sure to bundle up or you’ll catch a cold!!! Did you actually get cell service where you were today? Do you have one of those locator beacons everyone was recommending? Do you have extra socks?

      Sorry, we all just want you to be safe ๐Ÿ™‚ You never know there are a lot of “What ifs” out there!! GOOD LUCK and BE SAFE!


    NO treasure is worth dying over.

    Remember WHO is at home waiting for YOU.
    She is NOT waiting for the Treasure. YOU
    are her treasure.


  19. Be safe everyone. Sounds like still too much snow on the ground.
    Safety first. Please wait for the snow to melt.

  20. We left on our first search trip last night. Stuck in CO due to blizzard. We are about a day behind schedule but still pushing ahead.

  21. Forrest said that a searcher got the first two clues right, but he also said that there are thousands of WWWH in the RM, and a canyon is a canyon is a canyon……So, did they get the right location? Or, just what he was referring to….?????? All in my opinion of course.

      • @ JCM,

        thanks, it kinda answered my question in a round about way. He also talked of many getting there but had no clue as to the connection with the rest of the poem. ???

  22. Jeremy P, thanks! I figured it might be next to impossible to calculate; but appreciate your input. These days with e-gambling people bet on everything. One thing’s certain with ttotc…no beginner’s luck.

  23. My site is accessible. I can see it from the snow drift. It is free from snow as is most of the road. There is just one stretch about a half a mile long that is shaded by North Slope and trees. This portion of the road is impassable by vehicle. I wasn’t really ever in danger, my spouse knows where I am and we had a pre-arranged phone call time. Also, I’m only about 5 miles from the main road. Tomorrow’s walk will be relatively easy because the drift is on the cut side but there is bare road on the hill side of the road. So I will just park my truck and walk the last mile. I bought a backpack today, since I left mine at home. I hope to be able to use it tomorrow for more than just water. Update tomorrow evening. By the way, I appreciate everyone’s concern for my safety. This community is tight.

  24. I am curious if anyone is going to be around Santa Fe NM around the weekend of the 11th June 2016? I may be setting up a date to come discover the city, and I wouldn’t mind meeting some like minded brethren ๐Ÿ˜›

  25. IMO, this year there r alot of late snow storms so maybe everyone should adjust there adventures to the right…IMO FF hid the TC when he knew it was safe..for those going out be safe and enjoy your new adventure

  26. Woody Bog,

    I second your thoughts on this, with the weather that just hit the Rockies he is wanting others to consider waiting until the weather has pasted and their respective search areas are safer. Might be why this was posted Thursday vs Friday to “halt” those weekend search plans.

    • JD,

      I believe it has to do with the aftermath of finding the chest. What will happen to the finders life? Is it gonna be worth it (and that doesn’t mean the gold), unwanted fame is a high price to pay. To remain anonymous will be difficult if not impossible.
      Can someone post the exact post from MW, I’m curious as to what it actually says. Thanks.

    • I think it is some sort of cryptic message, JD, but I haven’t been able to figure it out.

    • Hello JD. You pose an interesting thought. Going with your line of thought, I ask myself, “What if?” Unfortunately, no one answers but the voices in my head. ๐Ÿ™‚

  27. Hi Dal & All –

    What would you do if you found it? Would you tell or not? I haven’t found it but I’m torn about what I’ll do ๐Ÿ™‚ If I tell: Taxes, Legalities (Fed, reservation, private land) vs. courtesy of letting others know.


    • I already have a brilliant plan in mind, and yes I’d wish to remain anonymous. What’s the point in publicity, and at what cost? Fame only attracts weirdos and fake people who love you for the wrong reasons.

      • IMO I think that if someone finds it, they “SHOULD” let know FF and the best way to let him know is to give him the bracelet. You don’t have to let him know who you are or any body else for that matter, and you don’t have to reveal where it was found, FF already knows.
        IMO Good sportsmanship requires that you let it be know that it has been found so that we can all end this addicting chase.
        Good luck to all, be safe and think before taking action. It’s not in an unsafe place, and that might mean waiting for the right time to go.

    • Simple… ๐Ÿ™‚
      1. I’m bringing a small brass chest and leaving a handful of gold coins. I want the second person to know they found the right place.
      2. Contact FF
      2a. Give bracelet back
      2b. Say thank you,
      2c. Ask him to post that it has been found, but there is something left behind.
      2d. Ask Forrest to publish a book about creating the poem.
      3. Start the slow drive east with a trunk full of treasure!
      4. Slowly sell the items to keep my family living a modest life.

  28. When I look at the original question:


    and compare it to the newer post by Forrest, I get the feeling that someone has told him about a Scrap Book, Vignette, or something found in TTOTC. Forrest is telling that person to look deeper, what the searcher found, and shared with Forrest contains more of “something”. Forrest is asking…”What if there is more?”

    This, of course, is just my opinion.

    Good luck to all in your searches, and STAY SAFE


    • What if there is no treasure chest?
      What if the solve is hiding in plain sight?
      What if Forrest made the whole thing up?
      What if the only thing in the chest is the bracelet?
      What if the poem can’t lead you to the treasure chest?
      What if Forrest is not who you think he is?

      Too many what ifs to list Forrest… but the answers you already know…!!!

      • Hello JohnCena. It looks like you’re showing the symptoms of “Fenn Fever.” If you should solve where the treasure chest is, and you believe the bracelet is the only item inside, disregarding what Mr. Fenn has stated what he placed inside the chest, may I have the rest, please? ๐Ÿ™‚

        • No one said I believed those what ifs? Just putting that out there….but one of them is definitely worth pondering I’ll let you guys figure out which one…!!! Hahaha ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • Hello Focused. Gosh, that’s so kind of you to say so. I am no more deserving than any other who is searching. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Interesting. How did you come to that conclusion JD? If it is a message to sumbuddy in particular, that person should be grateful for a personalized nudge.

      Makes me feel like going back to analyze a few lines in particular where I have a sense there could be more. “The answers I already know,” requires additional thought.

      Consulted my 8 ball – must be broken. “reply hazy, try again” Gonna have to do this one on my own.

  29. ” nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve”

    I guess I’m just going to throw this out there because I have been sitting on it for awhile. “What if” the blaze we are looking for is a drawing carved into a rock. .. “the end” is ever – “drawing”. Just maybe since Forrest has dealt in “art” most of his life why not have some art in part of the search. A drawing – ( maybe it’s the “word that is “key”) – one that if seen by a chaser it would be very understandable that it is related to the TTOTC. Has anyone looked at the big picture, let’s just say the one on the jacket cover of TTOTC book. What is it? Could it be a white outline drawing of it? or maybe something else? blaze?- A WHITE SCAR ON A ROCK….a white scar “drawing” on a rock. Just some food for thought. Good luck to all, Bur

    • The subject of the meaning of ‘DRAWING’ been discussed a few times over the years. As for the possiblity of it refering to a drawing etched on a rock, I posted this last year:

      It was in my search area. It looks like a boom box, but it could mean “hear me all and listen good”. That would be funny.

    • Bur, I think you would be looking for something that hasn’t been mentioned by anyone yet. I was think about this too and most everything I came up with has already been put out there by people. It’s like the Donald Rumsfeld quote:

      “…because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns โ€“ the ones we don’t know we don’t know.”

      The only thing clear is that no one has a full solution. That’s reassuring.

    • how about a “Y” or “T” on a rock with a sun in the corner? Reference a shadow.:) And maybe a stick next to the rock, in the shape of a “Y”? Next to a firepit/circle of rocks all in the shape of a “97”. Reference to Andrew Marvell, 97 stanzas, marvel gaze. It’s not the word that is key so-to-say, but the “Y” stick and what you do with it would be.
      Sounds like if someone was to find something like that, or even take a picture, might have a strong arguement for the blaze. I’m sure there might even be a rock in the circle with instruction pictures, if you had an idea of what you’re looking for…:)

      • *Looks squinty eyed* … not nemesis. No one has a full solution to Forrest’s poem.

      • Mirror mirror on the wall Y is it that I must go? Because X marks the spot? Remove the leg of Y=V place mirror at bottom point of V=X. Just a fun exercise and not meaningful to me but others like mirroring IMO so I share this.

  30. So many what ifs to consider.
    What if we consider the wrong what if?
    What if we donโ€™t consider the correct what if?
    What if there are multiple what ifs that combine to make the correct singular what if?
    What if the correct what if has changed to another what if?
    What if we identify the correct what if, but incorrectly identify what the what if means?

    My head hurts.

  31. Yesterday evening (3/23/2016) I decided to see on Facebook , if there was a TTOTC page. I found one but not sure if it is one that FF, Dal, or some other trusted searcher has made. I don’t agree with all the gentleman stated for various reasons. On the side of the page a gentleman had posted his solve earlier that day, I took it that he had been to the spot in Colorado. He also stated that in his opinion, FF had removed the TC for various reasons, therefore he emailed the coordinates to Mr. Fenn, to claim his “title to the gold” and was awaiting his response. He also stated he had broken the poem down into anagrams.
    I guess my questions are, since I’m a newbie to “the hunt”, has this been discussed about anagrams? I know Mr. Fenn has stated don’t mess with the poem, and I personally would consider changing words around messing with it. Also, is this a trusted Facebook page that someone has created? As of this moment, Dals website, and Jenny’s website are the only two that I trust information being posted.

    Thanks for any input given !


    • Hi Melissa,

      I would concur that Dal’s website and Jenny’s website are the only two outlets where you’ll see something “official” from Forrest.

      I’d take the facebook page as a fan page. To my knowledge, Forrest has nothing to do with it.

      Also, anagrams have been discussed a lot but generally discounted per your “messing with the poem” point. That being said, there are many who still look for codes, cyphers, etc. within the poem. Maybe it will work for them. I don’t know.

      And of course, everything I stated above is IMO. And everything everyone else says is ITO.

    • Hello Melissa. Anagrams have been discussed by searchers in the past. I’m trying to remember something Mr. Fenn has stated about how people are going about trying to solve the poem, but I can’t remember which website it’s on; Dal’s or Jenny’s.

      Here is something that will help you on your journey (Dal’s blog, under “Cheat Sheet”):


    • Melissa, on the facebook page, I believe the page is legitimate. I don’t think it is kept up to date as much as this blog or MW. But I would not take anything posted to the page by others, such as searchers, as legitimate or positive or negative. You have to decide for yourself if anything posted there has any value in your search. The fb page could have been a great tool in the chase but it seems this blog is the better place.

  32. Translation: Whats important to consider about the clues.
    Important concept about solving the clues.

    • So, we need to list out all possibilities about solve concepts, however silly they may appear at first.
      Then figure out the most important, that we may not have yet considered from that list.

      Remember, this was started by Jenny asking him about clues and hints.

      • Here are some concepts he has already given us.

        Don’t change the words.
        Don’t discount the importance of any word.
        He’s not playing any games, it’s straight forward.

  33. Thank you Martin, pdenver, Ramona, and Musstag for your input. I pretty much, after reading Mr. Fenn’s statement about not messing with the poem as a straight forward comment from him. That’s the way I started my own “chase”. I found Dal’s website the first of Feb. this year. I have looked at the words, looked up definitions, synonyms, etc. and made notes on them. I sort of over whelmed myself, and read too much with so many different ideas and opinions, that I jumbled my “little grey cells” LOL. So again, thank you everyone!


  34. “What if I was looking so far ahead that I was neglecting what was beside me.”
    Hypothetical speaking Fenn. ๐Ÿ™‚
    Everyone, touch the tip of your nose,s. Now say”aye”….hehehe!

  35. What if:

    wise (my “word that is key”) is absolutely vital to making the “leap” (IMO) between identifying “No Paddle Creek” (made that up) and getting to the vicinity of the Blaze?

    Wise–seeing deeply into a question or thought; perhaps this suggests you must “see” beyond the Creek, and have great confidence to continue, lest you quit because “this just doesn’t look like right”

    What if “wise” has a hidden hint?
    orientation, physical: Lengthwise, edgewise
    orientation, subject: weatherwise, moneywise, blazewise

    I thought I was brilliant when I started this, now I just hope you don’t think I have wasted our time.

      • good thought Michael Hendrickson (@ic1198)

        I will add that to my inventory

        are sage and pinon mutually exclusive?

  36. Well, in my solution(s) I have used a lot of different things… And hopefully it’s close to the peak of this mountain that I’m going to… I’ve changed my mind about Wyoming…

  37. What If? I read FF post. What if Put in below the Home of Brown; No Paddle up your creek etc… What if? it’s right there… no paddle up your creek: Look down here!

  38. Yesterday on a whim I bought a metal detector so me, my two boys ages 10 and 7, could go outside and spend some time together. Today my oldest son Jaxson and I was searching in the backyard. I let him do the detecting while I did the digging, I did not expect to find anything other than freshly dug holes, but on the second spot we found an old Cub Scout kerchief slide and he was so excited! It was his first find and we was together, father and son, to enjoy the moment. To top it off, it being a neck slide from the Boy Scouts made it uniquely special for father and son doing something together. Reminded me of Forrest’s arrow head story and how special it was for him that it was with his father.
    My son is already looking forward to our next trip out ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Hello indianajones. Thank you for sharing your beautiful story. Not only did you find a neck slide, you also found a lump in your throat. May you and your sons continue to have beautiful memories. ๐Ÿ™‚

  39. Oh it’s a good thing WWII came along when it did or we would have had automobile axles lying around everywhere.
    Fenn just had to spin that tale about buffalo Cody tearing off Skippy’s axle, well I have come across at least 2 places where axles have figured prominently.
    Maybe not front axles, these sound more like rear ones.

    1) The first custodian of Carlsbad Caverns used old ford axles when he built handrails in the cavern.
    2) Now I find where someone stuck an axle in the dirt in Pietown NM as Benchmark #er0023 (their caps not mine)…

  40. Haha, if anyone knows about American Idol (Trent Harmon) he is where I am from. They are filming here for next week. Wish I had that treasure chest today to give the news media a story…. man, that would be something…. sadly I must wait just a little longer…

    • Wait… I don’t think that sentence came out right…. lol. I am from the same town he is….man, that would definitely give the media a story, me being from him….anyway (palm to forehead) you get my drift…

  41. Dal,

    I was going to just email you this question, but I thought about it and decided the topic was something for every Confident Searcher should contemplate as they compose their missives.

    Do you think it is likely that someone that frequents dalneitzel.com will be The Finder?

    All The Finder’s posts would be accessible. Someone will extract from this blog everything The Finder has ever posted. And that could be interesting, possibly valuable. Possibly not terrific for The Finder.

    Joseph Jones, Not Finder

    • That’s a good point Joseph. And if they used more than one screen name that information could be extracted from the blog as well. I wonder if my hacker was using more than one screen name? Hmmm….

    • Most don’t use real names or discuss there current solve maybe difficult to know who the finder is if they don’t come foward. But most would love to say to this community “I was right” than prove it.

    • Hey Joseph

      I’m curious to your meaning about “valuable”
      How could post to this blog be valuable or regardless if that person has used different screen names? Why would/should that matter?

      What “potential value” could that bring unless someone would tell where it was found… but even then, what if that person has a back up plan in place? You should always be prepared for the unexpected!!!

    • Should the chase end from a “winning solve,” the 15 minutes of fame for the chaser would be about it. Can’t imagine people would spend too much time on the blog postings once the life blood is gone.

      Who knows, Fenn may have a plan for that too. Another chase to come. He really has thought through the contingencies. Makes me think of a positive version of the SAW movies.

  42. If I find it you’ll see me on the today show. I could not live my life worrying about prison for tax evasion. We can all dream. Has anyone else thought about mt brown in Montana?

    • Mt. Brown Montana

      It’s in Glacier National Park at the north end of Lake MacDonald. My family was involved with building the loges there, and working on the Great Northern Railroad. My Grandfather, Dougald Gilchrist, grew up in Apgar at the southern end of Lake MacDonald. He went to the little one room schoolhouse there where the mother of artist Ace Powell was the teacher. They were there when artist Charles Russel was there painting images of the lake. Ace Powell was ipresse enough that he became an artist. My grandfather went to work on the railroad after a stint as a horse theif with Powell.
      Anyway, if I were to search there, there is a beautiful waterfall below Mt.Brown that I would go enjoy.

      • Yeah, from looking at the photos a trip to Glacier would be epic. I like the fact that everything there was carved into a U shape, trouble is the elevation is right on the bubble.
        I was Jonesing to go there last season. My ideal spot was that boot-shaped piece of land between lakes Josephine and Swiftcurrent.

        • I guess, technically the boot=shape is an isthmus. f always seemed to be losing his shoes, maybe this was his favorite Monopoly piece.
          There are a lot of trees, & the highest part of the mound is roughly 5070′ Boat passengers have to walk the 200 yard trail between the shuttles. Some day I will visit there, but rather than clog up the ‘Going to the Sun Rd’ I think I’d rather take the free shuttle and enjoy the view.

          The hardcore bicyclists can ride their bikes downhill (west direction) from the summit, but somewhere it’s written they must wear those awful, tight-fitting bike clothes.

  43. What if you find the TC and of course you meet with FF to return the bracelet and request to remain anonymous for now. There might be further instructions inside the jar with the letter. No matter what the antiquities might be a legal snafu but the gold coins wouldn’t be since they are currently in circulation since it would be hard to prove they had belonged to forest since millions were minted. This is purely speculation at this point. Just my thoughts. Eventually FF could announce to all that it was found along with a photo of the bracelet and a blurred body handing it to him. I think most of us would accept that … I myself would be more than happy to select a media outlet for the story… if i had the chest.

    • If I ever find in Forrest’s lifetime, I’d much rather he ran the show. I’m the opposite of photogenic, and the limelight seems to be my kryponite – I’d rather enjoy my place in the shade.

  44. Has it ever been revealed how long it took ff to get his car to where the afternoon 2 trips from the car took place? I have read a number of posts/articles that state how long ( one afternoon ) it takes from the car to the TC location but have not really seen anything about how long for the car to arrive at the parking place where this occurs. Any pointers to an interview or whatever that has more clarity would be helpful.

    • I’m afraid you won’t find a confirmation of that tidbit anywhere…The origination of his trip nor the parking place are known by anyone other than ff…So determining travel time or distance is out of the question…

      This is the reason he won’t divulge the time period when he made the trip…So no one can check auto rental records at any location to calculate any of that info, depending of course on whether or not he rented a vehicle…f is silent on that as well…

      It will be necessary to find another avenue to determine where he may have gone and where he left his auto to walk…

      • sam said it best. Sorry noob. But, common sence may help in this.
        After thinking about it for awhile, you will most likely come to the conclusion:
        1. It’s somewhat far, not close to where people will see him do this,
        2. He didn’t walk far, a lot of weight, plus he didn’t make it to difficult on himself,
        3. The entire treasure was the first trip, he has worked on this for a long time, it’s a huge event, do you really think he would leave 1.5 million dollars (half the chest) in his car as he walked off? c’mon, I’m sure he left nothing to chance,
        4. What was involved in the second trip, staging the scene? gathering measurements for the sole purpose of the clues? Varifying certain spots for later use when he writes the book/poem? the blaze?
        It may prove to be important to figure it all out, but, in the end, it would only be a guess. And, guessing when it comes to this poem has proved to be foolish.IMO…

          • Did forest ever say that he made 2 trips to hide the chest , or that he made 2 trips to the location in an afternoon. He may have made 2 trips during an afternoon to camp at that location but at another time. Especially since we wishes for his bones to be placed there shows he loves the place. I camp where i enjoy. This whole 2 trips may be clouding our thought train too much.

          • Hayseed,

            fenn made more than one comment and answered Q&A’s regarding the “trips”… you’re going to need to look them all up and come to a conclusion, or at best an informative thought.

          • Seeker , I did. Thats why i stated it the way i did. I have little doubt that he carried the chest and contents in to the location in one trip. So his second trip could have been to carry in anything from his camping gear to his writing gear… He could have just as easily carried it in there in the morning and spent the rest of the day there clearing thoughts , writing , or camping.

          • Hayseed,
            To my recalling… Two trips from his car was made in one afternoon, He walked less then a few mile, carried the contents first the spot, and then the chest second trip. Carried both, in the open and concealed.
            and the latest comment was if someone was not able to travel a few miles they may not want to try. [that is my brief summery of the comments made- obviously there is to them more.]

            You stated; “I have little doubt that he carried the chest and contents in to the location in one trip.”

            Why do you fell he made one trip with everything [ chest and contents ] when he stated he separated them into two trips?

          • never said he didn’t. what i’m saying is that he took all the treasure first trip, what did he take the second?

          • hey Mark, you have to direct me to where f has stated that exactly, not someone else’s interpretation. Find f’s exact quote and then, thank you, I wasn’t aware he said that.
            It’s really no big thing but thanks for correcting, if true…

          • okay, got it Mark, thanks for the clarification. It is surprising, leaving the chest to chance. Must be the “Los Angeles” in me. Does hint that maybe his car was in a secure place. Here’s a thought, rented a vacation home. Easy privacy, easy planning, could be discreet.
            I just have a problem with him just leaving his car somewhere and walking into some forest. As smart as this whole thing is, that just seems dumb…IMO

        • Yes he made 2 trips, guessing because the entire prize would be like lugging around a car battery. He could have left the chest behind, and taken the loot w/ him first trip

  45. Since this is Easter, maybe the Easter Bunny came across the treasure while he/she was hiding Easter Eggs. Maybe if we can catch the Easter Bunny, it will tell us where the REAL Easter Egg is hidden.

    Good luck to all, and STAY SAFE


  46. I’m thinking this is an easy drive from his house. He’s 80. Sure he likes to travel but it had to be doable. I am suddenly intrigued but would figure its nearby the 8.25 miles out. But then as I live in PA I can just speculate from afar. Good luck.

    • V,
      Never underestimate your fellow man or woman for that matter.
      This is no ordinary man we are talking about here.
      I would leave all possibilities open including all the states on the map.
      It appears he likes to take the path less traveled & would assume it’s not the easiest choice. You could throw a dart at the map, but I suggest to throw a handful. My opinion.

      • Agreed. Nothing about this adventure is lazy. I would still like to look in Fenn’s car seats for loose change. May be a coin or two fell out under the driver’s seat.

  47. Here is another thought … and one i think is completely true. The poem is a map to the treasure. What if it is not the only way to the spot , there is an easier way to get to it. But in order to create a ” map ” you used the features available to you which can be done on google earth. My spot is that way. Using the poem it fits like a glove , yet on google earth you can see that there is a much easier way to get there than using the map…. although you end up in the same place. Thats the idea … to end up at the treasure . And it wouldn’t matter if you were riding in on a pink dinosaur as long as you end up at the right spot.

    As an example. You can turn right out of your driveway and go 2 blocks to a 7-11 store. Or you could turn left , go 2 blocks , turn left again , go 2 blocks, turn left , go 2 blocks and 7-11 is on your left hand side. Both ways you wind up at the same spot.

    I believe this is the case . In looking at my map you can’t make a map by saying ” just drive down highway zxy til you get to the spot and park. From there go through the trees to the spot. It is there but you can’t see it from the road ” .

  48. I was looking forward to a Nor’ Easter.
    As my bro Jim would say, Keister to your Easter & would take his 3 daughters skiing in the White Mountains on this holiday.
    What better way to celebrate your beliefs than poaching the snow.

  49. Harry Fenn. His appreciation of flowers can be felt in artistic illustration.

    Might this appreciation been passed down?

    I believe so!


  50. Putting on my pink tutu and bibbing up for my crow dinner and a slice of humble pie for dessert. But I did have a new thought about the what ifs…there are two lines in the poem that begin with If. And I believe most of us searchers kinda overlook those lines as non clues…but what if after you find your creek, you must go to all of the wyes of that creek in order to find the blaze…Once you’ve been to the wyes and found the blaze, only then can you find the treasure…just a thought. Good luck to all…cuz if you don’t know exactly where to look then you are just on vacation. Pictures and story to follow.

    • Eating crow on Easter seems to be a tradition around here.
      I decided to leave the rabbit in the hole & cook up some crow myself.
      At least you will not stain your shirt while regurgitating some of the crow most of us have gerbled.
      How many searches have you taken?
      I need a round about number to adjust your odds.
      Your odds stand at 8,256 to one according to my book.
      I give you credit for following your dreams, but I am not sure it’s worth the dreams you are giving up unless they see your dreams as there dreams.
      Dream on……

    • It’s only a crow dinner if that’s what you call it…reminds me of a long ago story by Mark Twain.

  51. Well Michael, you did not find Fenn’s treasure, but you have a REAL treasure at home who was waiting for you when you returned.

    CHERISH the TREASURE that you already have. Some are not so lucky.

    Good luck to all in their searches – STAY SAFE, and HAPPY EASTER


  52. There is a line of philosophical thought that suggests that the meaning of life can only be fully understood in terms of a narrative or story, which you can only really see as a complete arc once you reach your autumn years.

    In my humblest opinion, I think that’s the correct approach to Forrest Fenn’s poem.

    I know this sounds like it was written in a pub on St. Patrick’s Day, but what I really mean to say is Happy Easter!

    • Jeremy P.
      I am not familiar with the meaning of life being understood as a complete arc. But in the 70’s it was common to look at life as a spiral; ever drawing near.

      “This triple spiral – the spiral of life – is an ancient symbol of Celtic beliefs. The Celts believed that all life moved in eternal cycles, regenerating at each juncture. If you look at the sign carefully, you will notice that it is drawn in one single line without a beginning or an end, suggesting a continuous movement of time. ”
      http://www.spiraloflife.info/philosophy.html ๏ฟผ

      • I don’t mean arc as in a shape or anything (no rainbow or Omega stuff). I mean “story” in a general way. Whatever the correct interpretation, I feel that it would represent a complete story. He put a lot of himself into the book. It’s reasonable to think that he put a lot of himself into the poem as well.

          • SL – your timing in posting the ‘near death experiences’ website is perfect. Tomorrow I’m visiting a friend with advanced cancer and only days to live. Sharing hope is important to me – and the thousands of parallel stories of peace & beauty listed at the NearDeath website may be just what my friend needs. Thank you.


          • Anna, Its you that your friend needs, your a good person for being there. We will say a prayer for your friend.

          • Oz10,

            I don’t post my e-mail… we might have someone we both know from the blog [ e-mails already exchanged ] and ask for a favor… but I try not to ask too many favors as well.

            I should set up an, ‘don’t care e-mail’ address for occasions like this [ for easy deleting later ]… or… do you want to post your e-mail for me to contact you?

            Fair warning… if ya plan on picking my brain… you may find yourself in the twilight zone. Just one thought here… you said you were thinking specifically in the RM’s. Nothing thus far say any clue has to be within that area… only the chest. Just a thought.

        • Here’s a what if… What if the poem is not about fenn? Maybe it’s about something… something that is near it’s end? Something that we all may consider important… that we all can treasure, and is disappearing. Something that holds, contains, supplies us with “its” trove… valuable to us.

          A what if … fenn cleverly wrote the poem to sound as if, the something is talking, telling its story, to us.

          • Oz10,
            In my thoughts… Yes. But it doesn’t have to be.

            Anything is really open to the interpretation of the poem. I’ve been wondering for some time now about the important possibility…
            I’m trying not to think like the masses, and reading the poem as a completely different perspective.

          • Nature wise the only thing that comes to mind is the trees or the forest. He did say he wrote a newspaper company about printing less paper to save more trees. Nothing else (that is disappearing) comes to mind related to geography though…

            Other than that, concepts like “freedom” or “the american dream”, maybe even “society” but none of those fit with everything in the poem in my opinion. Or maybe I’m missing something.

          • Oz,

            Maybe think a bit longer term. Are trees the only natural thing that come to mind… I mean just recently a decision was made that when all the Glaciers are gone from Glacier National Park… the name will remain the same.

            Lake Meade even though a reservoir has dropped some 100′, not to mention the Colorado river is barely making it’s way to it destination, as it once did. The Mississippi river has been so low that they closed part to shipping traffic…

            Are any of these related to the poem? I’d doubt it… yet I can think of a few more that could. Which brings me to my next question I have asked in the past… Is the poem “only” for this generation or the next [ our kids ] to solve?

          • Seeker, I guess I was thinking specifically within the Rockies, my mistake. I didn’t know about the GNP but I did read this article not even 3 days ago: https://weather.com/science/environment/news/great-salt-lake-drying-up

            Thanks for those points, I will put some thought on this things and if any relation to what the poem is trying to convey. I do want to pick your brain in a couple of things, how can I send you a private msg?

      • Thank you uken2it,
        You have ignited my imagination again to a new level which I have questioned for so long.
        I have believed for many years our spirit keeps going on after we leave the shell behind & eventually our spirit manifests in a new shell tour liking. Who knows if this is reality or just what we want to think.
        I think our spirit & the spiral of life has no end.
        In this world, we are all connected.
        Just another odd end to the night for me.

  53. Omgosh, just remembered my dream. I had the chest sitting in front of me and we were just looking at it. I tell my husband, let’s open it it’s not locked. So, I flip the lock and look at him and he says, ok. So….I lift the lid and see all these gold coins and other things, but they are like toys. I’m perplexed at this point. Telling him look for the necklace with the frog and as I got to the bottom of the box, the phone rang and woke me up. I delt with the insurance lady and felt like there was something up…..then I remembered my dream. Ha ha, what a tease!!!!! My second almost heart attack…lol.

  54. Hi Dal,

    I got the interview through the tablet again. Must be a computer issue on my side.

    Thanks,, nice remarks,


  55. Seeker, you asked, “Hereโ€™s a what ifโ€ฆ What if the poem is not about fenn? Maybe itโ€™s about somethingโ€ฆ something that is near itโ€™s end? Something that we all may consider importantโ€ฆ that we all can treasure, and is disappearing.”

    Here’s a thought: what if he meant…Going into peace. Found in silence, solitude, serenit, and
    “at-one-ment with Creator and Creation.

  56. Can someone direct me to where Forrest said to look at the big picture, or something to that effect?

  57. Just wondering if Forrest has ever stated “in my opinion” or “IMO” or “my opinion” etc… in any of his posts, books, comments, videos, audios and or statements etc…
    Just wana know if anyone can find a crumb or 2.

      • Hello pdenver,
        It’s fun all around to wonder in life as we know it now.
        You threw me the obvious.
        I think you are one of the veterans here at knowing just about everything Forrest has stated in media & sites as well as putting BOTG to have a pretty good idea where he is coming from.
        I will take a stab at answering my own question.
        I think the answer is obvious.

  58. Dal,

    Has it ever been discussed how you or any one of the searchers would write a treasure poem? What would you think you would include in the poem?

    Obviously it’s not important how someone else would write the poem. But, maybe it would give a new direction to look at the poem.

    Say if you lived in Santa Fa and hid the treasure in your favorite / special spot.

    Would you lead the searchers on a 1,000 + miles long trail? Or, maybe less than a thirty mile trail?

    He said he did not know how many clues were in the poem until it was finished.

    He said he wanted to make it hard but not impossible to find.

    There are a lot of other do’s and don’ts on the cheat sheet.

    How would you determine your starting point?

    How would you determine the length of the chase?

    How would you determine the amount of clues?

    Would anything special be of help in your poem, why?

    Then how would the searchers be able to define your thoughts?

  59. Here’s another question to ponder.
    Has Forrest ever used an emoji here or any other website?
    I would think he knows how to.
    I don’t think this has anything to do with the treasure, but I do think it speaks for his characters.
    I think there are many things that separate us from him besides his lifetime achievements & experiences.

  60. Jim, and others,
    I would suggest considering those questions remembering that F is both a fisherman and a pilot, and that “the hiding spot” was chosen before the poem was written.
    “Have flashlight and gloves, will travel”

  61. Please stay on topic. We will begin tossing comments that are off topic in an effort to keep comments relevant. Please do not use this blog like Facebook. Stay on topic. Thanks…

    This page is for odds n ends ABOUT FENN’S TREASURE HUNT…Thanks..

  62. I know gold can be turned into a liquid state but what about the turquoise. IMO the chest would never be close enough to experience this. Just food for thought.

  63. Hello Everyone. Having a discussion with my son and I’d like to know your opinions, please. Mr. Fenn has stated he walked a few miles to hide the treasure. Do you believe the few miles indicates just one way, up and back (once), or total distance (twice, from his vehicle to the hiding spot)?

    • With 20 lbs in your backpack, a mile is not really that far (I’ve walked to my pasture 1/2 mile there and 1/2 mile back with 20 lbs in backpack) and also consider the total weight of 42 lbs(about the same weight as a bag of grain) I’d say total distance. Not wanting to get off topic, but if you (pdenver) want to friend Kedar on fb, I’d like to be able to talk to you (my new blog friend) :+) besides here.

      • Hello Kedar’s Mom. I do not have a Facebook account, but I truly do appreciate the offer. Thank you. In regards to the distance, what would you consider the total distance in miles would be? I believe Mr. Fenn may have been straightforward with his answer in regards to distance, but how many is few? Three to four miles? (If I remember correctly, this is what I was taught in school.) Percentage of possible miles, divided by 5-10%? Do you believe it’s a total of 6-8 miles? Total of 12-16 miles? Total of no more than four miles? Less than two miles, perhaps?

        • Hi pdenver, I think that I remember reading that he said a few miles then said something like a scant number of miles. I don’t remember where I read it say I suppose it’s IMO or imi- in my imagination. I personally think he walked less than three miles total.

          • I think he telling us one of the definitions of scant was “few”–Or vise versa… He was making that type of statement. Basically telling you to figure it out.

    • Hey pdenver,
      Where did FF state the he walked a few miles? Is that something new? I’ve only heard that he went the place twice in an afternoon.

      • Hello Mark. I believe he stated this on Jenny’s site. I’ll see if I can find it, but I may not be successful. I’ve tried typing in topics, but not all the things would pop up for me, when I know there are more. It’s very possible I’m doing something wrong. If someone else on this blog can locate it quicker, that would be fantastic. In the meantime, I’ll do my best and try to locate it for you. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Thanks. Never saw that one.
          But knowing FF, what if he road a bicycle a mile or so down a dirt path or old blocked off road before he walked.
          And again, few can be “scant” or it can be “Some”, so if someone asked me, how far is it to the Broadmoor Hotel from here, I could easily say a few miles east, though its around 8.

          If he says he “wont be bold” and then tells you it, you know it isnt helpful.

          There was a comment somewhere, I think on the same blog, where someone offered to take him to the treasure place once he died to put his body there and return his car so no one knows where it is, signing some “I wont take the treasure” document or something.
          FF quote back to him was something like, “why, when I can just ride my bike and throw it in the ‘Waters High'”
          I thought that was interesting.

          I’ll try and find the quote

          • Your right, that is an interesting answer.

            Does that mean the โ€œwater highโ€ is deep enough to hide a bicycle? And, does that eliminate all those two foot deep, clear fishing rivers and shallow creeks? Or, is it just a polite way of saying, โ€œNo thanks, I can figure out ways to get there on my own and cover my tracks?โ€

        • Forrest said”less than a few miles”, that could mean anywhere from 1 foot to a couple of miles. IMO

        • Maybe we should add this comment as well;

          “If you canโ€™t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then donโ€™t go.”

          While it doesn’t give measurements, it does seem to indicate a lengthily walk to your solve. I’m sure someone will jump in and say… that means ‘” our solve ” not fenn’s, or something like that. or Less than could mean a foot to 3 miles.
          Some like to dismiss the measurement fenn chose to answer the Q&A in miles, simply explaining that away as fenn talk.

          I’m starting to wonder, what do searchers mean by fenn talk?

          He has stated… Miles, in one afternoon, several hours, don’t go where and 80 year old man carrying a heavy backpack can’t, two trips…

          But for some… fenn talk seems to mean 10-20-30 feet. Sure if we twist it till it breaks, we can make it work… why not… good thing we all know WWWH is the first clue, right? lol.

          Oh right! In my fenn talk opinion.

          • Well, 2 feet is “Less than a few miles”

            Unless he is now wanting it to be found, he is not going to give away anything that will help.
            That is unless he slips up and says something he shouldn’t.
            But for something like that, where he says, “No, I dont want to be that bold”
            He is not giving anything helpful that people dont already know.
            He did two trips in and afternoon.

            Now, it is interesting that most people think that it was two trips because the TC is ~42 lbs, and that is a lot to carry for a few miles ( or less than a few miles)

            But I dont believe he ever said he took the Treasure in 2 trips. Maybe the first trip was taking tools to get the site ready for the TC. The second was with the TC or vice versa.

            To be honest, only one person knows.

            I wonder how much all this other info is actually leading us away from it because we exhaust or studying of the poem and rely on other “clues”?

            I’m thinking I may disregard “everything” FF has said and go back to the book and poem exclusively.
            That is if I can rid my brain of all the other “Knowledge” I have of this chase.

            Maybe a lobotomy?


          • lol… actually Fenn did talk about the meaning of the word “several” at the Moby Dickens book signing. Several= more than two but not many. I don’t think it matters, in my opinion, if he had said “several miles” instead of “less than a few” because he had said the poem will take us precisely to it.

          • Mark,

            He did say what he took on the first trip and on the second trip… I’m not going to hunt the comment down… but I believe it was the contents first, the chest second.
            He also stated in a Q&A he carried it both ways [ meaning how he carried it] … concealed and in the open.

            We nickle and dime a comment to death… but just like the first two clues comment of, did the folks “know” they had the first two clues… it take time to find all the comments involved. 5.5 years of comments.

            I can agree with you more Mark; “I wonder how much all this other info is actually leading us away from it because we exhaust or studying of the poem and rely on other โ€œcluesโ€?”

            Personally, I needed to find the answer about “knowing” the first two clues or not. This here, while enjoyable to think about… personally doesn’t do anything for a solution… only how long in time and distance fenn might have went to the hide. I still need to find the hidey spot… then this should answer itself.

          • Mark,

            Reverting back to the poem is the sane thing to do. I think the two trips in an afternoon comment is Forrest’s way to let people know you don’t have to search in a deep ravine or somewhere extremely difficult to reach.

            Be safe in your search.

            Trying to determine precisely how far from the road is just going to drive people bonkers.

            If you want to stray from simple & chase rabbit holes, technically, he may have brought a pack mule in his trailer and loaded the TC and contents for the heavy lifting. He could walk and lead his burro to the spot ๐Ÿ™‚

            Consulted the 8 ball for probability of people chasing rabbits….”Outlook good.”

          • Forgot to add in my opinion. In my opinion, any sort of pack mule, horse, ATV, etc. not only makes two trips unnecessary, bringing one along suggests an intention to make a single trip out of it.

            It won’t help much in solving the poem, but you can reasonably conclude from the two trips statement that he walked, that it’s a walk that a 79-80 man could could make, and it’s not too far because he did it twice in an afternoon. It’s one of the few things in the Chase that isn’t mysterious.

    • My thoughts are, as best I can measure from Google Earth, I believe the walk from the car to the hidey spot is 1.87 mile the majority of it following a trail. At a casual pace of 20 min per mile this is how I think it may be.

      40 minutes to hidey spot.
      20 minutes break/hide chest/enjoy view.
      40 minutes back to car.

      Hour break plus or minus. Eat sandwich, prepare second load.

      40 minutes to hidey spot.
      20 minutes break/hide chest/enjoy view.
      40 minutes back to car.

      260 minutes total, divided by 60 minutes(hr), equals 4.33 hours total =/-.

      • Ramona,
        I’ll give you a dollar for your 2 cents here.
        I think your time & math are pretty close.
        So after following the trail, you have to make a choice where & when to blaze your own trail. I believe this is where we screwed up in only getting 200′ worth of Crow Pie.

    • “I walked less than a few miles” seems to be total on both round trips, more than one mile but less than 3. Plus the time after the second round trip it took him to organize the gold and jewels inside, maybe apply the wax around the cover and to bury the chest.

  64. For my solve, Forrest needed to walk a little over 1/2 mile 4 times…or a total of just 2 miles. 1/2 there – 1/2 back twice. A couple of spots are a little steep, but I am sure Forrest could have made it. I am 73 with an arrhythmic heart, and require oxygen when in the mountains if I exert myself…and I have made the trip several times.

    • Hello JD. Thank you for responding. I do hope this is the case. I looked up the word “few” and see that it could mean: “An indefinite, but usually small, number of.” I certainly don’t like the explanation of “indefinite.” In my opinion, it sounds a bit of an oxymoron. Mr. Fenn chose his word “few,” wisely.

  65. I think it may be wise to just play with the word “few”, since it means scant. The find all of the possibilities that go with that word. That is the only way you are going to find an answer to something.. It kind of like checking your work when you are done, to confirm your answer, and your work..

  66. Does anyone remember if the little girl in India was in a scrapbook or was in on the MW site?

    • MW…

      5Q) Your treasure hunt has inspired people worldwide to discover history, culture and nature, but many people, (even in the US) might be deterred because they donโ€™t live near the Rockies or canโ€™t afford to travel. Should they be deterred? Can a little girl in India, who speaks good English, but only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains, work out where the treasure is? And would she be confident as she solves each clue, or only confident when she has solved them all?

      I wish I had another treasure to hide in the Appalachians. The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues. There are many disabled people who are deeply into maps and geography, and they are having a lot of fun.

      U R welcome…

        • Hi SL…yep, quite an adventure for me as well…Been out on one search last summer, drove 3,400 miles round trip…Me, the wife , and two pups…Enjoyed it immensely and plan to return to my area once more this summer…The wife loves camping out in the mountains and maybe this trip we’ll get to campfire a few fresh caught trout…Plan at least a week of camping, fishing, and sightseeing…And of course a good search of my area…Can’t wait…

          And before you can ask – Searching in Wyoming, but not YNP, that’s for sightseeing…

  67. Dal, I don’t member the interview, but didn’t he say that it was less than a few miles, and that he looked up the definition of a few and that one was “scant” and that he seemed to be talking in circles? He didn’t say if all the trips were less than a few or it if was one way. Leaves a lot or room to say the least.

  68. Ok, we know that fenns shadow seems to be of possible significance…has anyone considered the shadows in the drawings in the book? Opinions on what they could be telling us? Present or missing…story is rainy or sunny…moon is out or moonless??? To the right or left of him? How could the shadow have any connection with the poem? Hmmmmmm….

    • Shadow; your closest companion?
      Phantom; one whose dead?
      Two can keep a secret… only my companion knows.

      Sorry, I was thinking poetically again.

      Shadow; ancient Shadow woman?
      ;Lee side of a mountain range?
      ;To cast a shadow or block light?
      ; an optical illusion? hmm, that may fall into the pictures in the book.

  69. About a special place,

    After reading about my meeting God in the woods, my mother mentioned a similar experience from her childhood in Montana. She had a special place where she would go and pick huckleberries. It was in the mountains of northwestern Montana near Kalispell. When she was there a strange wind would blow. They called it the wind of lost souls. It was something that she only felt there on that mountain side.
    Recently we took a drive to the mountains north of Santa Fe. She said she felt it there. It was the only other time or place in her life that she had felt the wind of lost souls. And it was an epiphany, a fluid eminance.
    That’s what a special place is. You just have to be out there to get it.

  70. Hello Forrest.

    So, is that offer to bail me out of jail still a thing? No, I’m not in jail now… but Putting this plan together is going to be a tough one…So, I was just making sure that the offer was still available!! Definitely going to have to be brave and it’s really going to be no place for the meek…

    • Hey John, it is highly unlikely that getting to the chest would put you in jail or risk your life. Please plan with wisdom and use common sense. Remember he has been in that location more than once in his life and it is a special place to him. Also remember that we have lost a fellow searcher, the gold is useless if you are dead.
      Make sure you have a reliable check-person who will get rescue efforts underway if things take an unexpected turn. Better yet, dont put others at risk by doing something stupid. That being said…good luck and have a great adventure!

      • Right but he has said, paraphrasing, we are really going to have to earn it.

        That’s how I feel about my solve. 6.8 miles one way… 42 lbs load on the way back. …

        • So what you’re saying is fenn took two trips from his car to the hide, in one afternoon, for a total of 27.2 miles? If my math is correct that is approx. 4.5mph walking in 6 hours… non-stop.
          Even if you take off the last return trip… back to the car… that is still a constant pace of over 3 mph walking, and nearly 20 miles, just to hide the chest.

          You don’t need bail, you need a good pair of air-Jordans

          • Back off there Seeker,
            Maybe JC has mistaken Earth for Venus.
            We all seem to be way out there at some point in time.
            I am heading back to MACS0647-JD for the night.

          • Hello seeker,
            Maybe I’ve let logic distract me from the poem? Sometimes I feel this whole thing is a set up but alas. This will most likely be my only attempt for a year or two… So, I have to make sure have exactly where I’m going. My girlfriend has asked ,because I’ve been so obsessed, if I don’t find it am I going to quit… Of course I don’t want to ruin my relationship over a chest…. So, I have to make sure I have it right the first time. Been working this solve for a year and half… I’m to the point if it’s not here… then it probably doesn’t exist…

          • Well John, you’ll have a lot of company in the “it’s not in my spot, the chest must not exist, or someone beat me too it” club.

            Anyways, let the girl friend know exactly the path you’ll be taken… it will help later.

        • JohnCera – here is what f said about earning it:

          “I said in my book that the solution will be difficult but not impossible. If it was easy anyone could do it. Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with their imagination. I have done only a few things in my life that were truly planned. Hiding the treasure chest is one of them. And at the end, the one who finds the gold will not feel lucky, but instead, will ask himself, ‘what took me so long?'”

          Imagination, not physical exertion, is what you need to expend to earn it. This is mostly a mind and thinking challenge with the rewards of getting out into Mother Nature each time you have come up with a plausible solution.

          I don’t know what your outdoor experience is, but having done much hiking in the mountains my whole life, 27+ miles is not realistic for one afternoon. For most experienced distance hikers, they might do that in 2-3 days. You better consider f’s statement that even now at 85, he could still go back to the spot.

          Best wishes for you as you work out your solution.

        • JohnCena, I’m curious if you have ever hiked more than a few miles above 5000 feet in the Rockies? Also, have you ever carried 42 lbs for a mile even at sea level? If not, then it might be a good idea to do so in order to gain some perspective before attempting your 13 mile venture. It appears that your fellow searchers, including myself, are concerned about your safety because your expectations seem to have drifted into the unreasonable range.

    • I would advise you to pick up ‘soap on rope’ before you head out. Check to see if they have internet access at the prison nearby.
      Your plan sounds solid, that is if you’re looking to get your name in the paper

  71. John, He also said if an eighty year old man couldn’t make two trips in an afternoon. just saying that’s over 24 miles.

  72. Till a voice, as bad as Conscience, rang interminable changes
    On one everlasting Whisper day and night repeated – so:
    “Something hidden. Go and find it. Go and look behind the Ranges –
    Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go!”

    …anyone else hearing that as the days slowly warm?

    • Yes I hear that lovely soft whisper, but it is quickly interrupted with a horrible sound like nails on a chalkboard, which is the sound of my fear of bears. If I find the treasure chest and survive not being eaten by a bear, when I meet Forrest, to return his bracelet, I’m going to punch him straight in the nose. Haha, just kidding, I would never do anything like that. Besides he doesn’t even want that bracelet. IMO

    • My conscience is whispering – look behind the Range. Who knows what lurks betwixt the range and freezer after cooking dinner.

        • I am not a book collector. I enjoy books though, I hated reading in school, even flunked reading in elementary school. As an adult I read something everyday and always more than one at a time. Science, history, religious writings with emphasis on Christian history etc.

          Back to the signed book “Kim”, I picked it up and looked at it and saw the autograph. I mentioned to my mother-in-law with some amazement that it was autographed. She gave it to my wife to give to me. I fondly remember her when Kipling is mentioned.

  73. Hello (everyone) that responded.

    I appreciate your enthusiasm in my attempt… I would explain more but I’m afraid I’d give too much information away… But Ill say this, If my solve is correct… it makes sense, at least to me… not my girlfriend, my mom, nor my dad, he thinks I’m nuts for even going or attempting searching for this… Well, most of my life people have told me you can’t do this, or that’s not a good idea or you’re wrong… I think that has been my goal from the start… To silence my critics, to silence the nay sayers, and to prove to myself that I can accomplish a goal set in front of me. I also wanted to take on the challenge of beating “the wise one” at his game with the decked stacked against me from the start… So, hopefully I’ll win, if not then I’ll shut up, eat my slice of humble pie , and go back to work! Worst case scenario I’ll come back with a good story, maybe even getting arrested( never done that one before) but hey, life’s an adventure and I’ve only got one life so I’m gonna do what Forrest asks and give him a story!

    • Hello JohnCena. I wish you the best of luck with your journey. May I ask you a question, please? Do you feel Mr. Fenn would hide the treasure chest where people would need to be arrested to retrieve it? Be safe in whatever you choose to do.

      • Hello pdenver

        No one said “need” to be arrested… I’m just assuming it could be a potential… and yes, Mr Fenn hid a treasure and obviously it’s of high value so why not put it where it’s risky??? All that I know he has said paraphrasing is if you find it you can keep it and that they’re may be no legal question, im assuming thats with ownership, but that depends…

        • John, stay safe. IMO Forrest didn’t trek some 27 miles in one afternoon. Think about it. Anyhow if you go please bring a buddy or at least a beacon if you get lost or… Think about it. Forrest would not put a searcher at risk, he just wouldn’t. That’s not brave, its lacking common sense.

          • Hello pdenver

            Here is my problem with that. Almost all places can/will be dangerous at some point in life. For instances vehicles are a safe form of travel but are one of the leading causes of death… I mean if we look at people that die in traffic accidents versus people that die by snake bites or bear attacks its almost a non comparison. So, it depends on his definition of dangerous… So, logically I’m assuming the danger from the search will be relative in comparison to some of the dangers we face in everyday life.

          • John,
            Just a thought to throw into this discussion. Perhaps the reason there are significantly less bear attacks are:
            -Because a large portion of folks in this country don’t live near bear
            -Because those that do live near bear avoid them when at all possible.
            -If this is taken into consideration among other factors your chances of a bear attack are much higher than you think
            -If you go, learn from others what you can do to avoid attacks (besides not go) for instance bear bells, repellant etc. But also guidelines from the folks in the wood, and mountains.

        • I have a place in mind too in the mountains of CO that could be sketchy legally. When you heading out John? Maybe we can share a cell.

          • Probably in June. So, hopefully I’ll have time to prepare before I go. Think I’ll go get me a back pack and 60lbs of weight and see how far I can tote it… 6.8 miles one direction… I have some pretty rough terrain/hills
            So, if I can do those I can survive the wilderness… Lions, tigers and bears Oh My!

            The real concern is packing all the extra… water, food machete… etc… Good thing I walk a lot everyday..!

          • John Cena
            All I will say is some of the people are very brave and can handle anything because they have been on Google Earth and they are ready. Well, a 3′ tree on google earth is 17′ tall in real life. On google earth you can see everything everywhere but when you step out into the forest in real life your vision just went down to, in front of you. Even a mountain can disappear inside of a forest.. One more thing, in the forest the only True North you can see is right over your head. Be safe but most of all ” Be Smart .”

    • LOL!!

      Well, JohnCena, you didn’t ask for an opinion, so I won’t give you mine.

      But, as Goofy says, “I hope you’re one tough motha’.” ๐Ÿ™‚

      Good Luck to Ya!!!

    • John, if you pick up the chest in a place that you may get arrested, you won’t be able to keep it anyway. So it makes little difference if you actually go and pick it up.

    • JohnCena – I like your determination; I take that you are probably fairly young still, which is not a negative thing. Your desire to prove to others that you are not wrong, that you can do something big, that you are not wasting your time and money is something very real for just about everyone at some point in their lives. Most cave into the naysayers around them and accept that running the rat race, like the critic, is the only way, is the safe thing to do. That helps justify them and their failures when they see you fail and that they are right and that you truly were wrong.

      This adventurous challenge that f has created is meant to get people out into the great outdoors and to experience nature. It is also to give people the chance of experiencing the excitement and thrills that f has had throughout his life looking for and finding unique and valuable treasures. I am not going to tell you that you can’t do this and that you are wrong for even thinking about taking up the challenge, (you are in good company for those who say to go for it) but I will caution you about using this as that “thing” that you are going to prove yourself with and silence all your critics. This should be looked at like the challenge of climbing Mt. Everest; it will require a lot of time and effort both mentally and physically, and probably many years of dedication to it. Your first attempt of climbing Mt. Everest and lack of attaining the top should not be looked at as failure, which it will be to the critics, but reality should be that it is just the first step on your eventual goal and accomplishment of reaching the top at some point in the future.

      If you want to prove something to your parents and others who say you can’t do something, then go get an advanced degree in a high demand area that you enjoy; figure out how to start a business and make it wildly successful. Don’t hang your goal for silencing the critics on something that you have almost no control of the outcome on; one where perhaps upwards of 100,000 or more people have not succeeded, and at best, only one person ever will, maybe 100 years from now, may 1000 years down the road. Besides, even if you are right, that doesn’t change much for the critic; to them, it just means you were lucky one time. I hope that makes sense to you. Take a look at the personal development and success coaching arena, there are a lot of great people who have great things to teach in this area of your life, perhaps start with a guy named Bob Proctor.

      Whatever you do, don’t just make this a once and done if it is something you enjoy doing, if you love researching and learning about places in the Rocky Mountains and of its history. Don’t make this to be just one more thing on a list for which it was just another failure in your life, something that the critics hit you over the head with in the future anytime you have something else you might want to try your hand at.

      This chase doesn’t need to consume one’s life, but can complement it in your free time and as you are are able to spend some time here and there on it. If it does consume you, then it is unhealthy and you should walk away from it.

      Lastly, I will be honest with you on your plan to hike about 7 miles each direction, it will not end well for you. Forrest has told us it is a place an 80, even an 85 year old can go, you can also take kids to this place, but that a 3 year old would need a little help with getting there. This should be one of the first criteria when judging whether a place is even feasible as a solution. What you are describing is not that, 7 miles over difficult terrain is something only those well conditioned to the environment and in very good physical shape could do. Kids would be complaining and parents would have turned back long before getting even half the distance you are discussing, and the 80+ year olds would be dead from heart failure.

      I am sure that you have a great solution to the poem, but is it one which truly fits the additional criteria f has given as hints and perspective to the location of the chest? Give that some deep consideration and if needed, I am happy to provide you with detail and statements to help you in your consideration.

      Normally I am content to let people continue on their way and in their line of thinking, but I am inclined differently in this instance.

      • Dear JCM

        I appreciate your advice and I like your thoughts about me not going and this may be a failure…
        However, I never said Forrest walked that many miles… I suppose I’ll find out in june… it’s like this regardless of landownership I don’t want anyone to know where I’m going or that I’ve been there so if I have to walk a little farther so be it…!! I wanna be like the ninja hiding in the shadows, lurking ready to strike whenever it’s convenient for me!! I’d like to keep the people that know to a minimum at least for a while… I have a plan for that as well… But if the treasure is there then you will know I was right, if not I’ll let everyone know it wasnt…

        • JohnCera – if this is a different path than what you think f might have taken to get to the location and your path is to avoid detection and arrest, then go with a lot of precautions.

          When measuring your path, is that about seven miles as the crow flies, or about seven miles taking the ups and downs and zig-zagging of the terrain into account too? If it is as the crow flies, then actual ground hiking up and down hills and through the terrain will possibly add the equivalent of another few miles onto your hike, maybe closer to 20+ miles total for the round trip.

          Go prepared to spend at least one night in the great outdoors and take accessories that may be useful to assist others in finding you. The potential for getting lost if you don’t have the right tools is real for what you seem to be plotting to do, unless it is near an area of civilization that is occasionally visible during your hike at higher points on the mountains and ridges.

          Be sure to leave early in the day if you are going to attempt to complete the whole trip in one day. It sounds like you may not be hiking an established trail. If it is rough terrain with ups and downs and no trail, expect to move at a pace of 1-2 miles per hour at best, probably about 1 mile per hour given the rest stops you will be taking given the weight of the gear/pack you should be carrying on your adventure to ensure your safe return.

          You may truly have a story to tell once you return, I just hope it is through an area that has a lot of beauty and the better features that do exist in the great outdoors.

      • Dal….can you comment on the reason for that? Did someone lose their “count” or was it purposeful? Is there a huge significance to 132?

        • Iron Will…thanks for making me look at SB 132…it’s a fun reminder that very few write letters these days.

          Also, I did notice your post not too long ago…where you were inquiring about the June weekend after Fennboree. I was in Santa Fe last year at that time and the weather and the Arts & Crafts Festival at the Plaza were great!

          Hope to do that again this June…but perhaps arriving late Saturday. Sorry I’m going to miss the fun at Fennboree…but maybe there will be future gatherings.

        • I think Dal said he didn’t like that number and left it at that…..my guess the jersey number of the guy who stole his girl in high school….lol!

  74. Good luck John cena. I am in a similar boat as you. Short hike or long follow your heart. I have a family of 7 and I only get one solution. Listen to your family. They know best. I wouldn’t be at my solution if it wasn’t for my wife looking at my work and reminding me at roadblocks that “that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard
    .” I figured if I can convince the wife, it must be good. Keep the family close they are the real treasure.

      • Hello Jake Faulker. What is it that you feel he doesn’t understand? To coin a phrase, “He’s smarter than the average bear.”

      • pdenver,
        Who is he?
        There are three bears related to the comment.
        To cut to the chase, I was looking in a mirror when I commed & the mirror cracked.

        I think the poem is mirrored in such a way where you begin where warm waters halt is the first clue & where cold waters warm is the last clue.

        Just a reflection of my opinion.

        • Hello Jake Faulker. “He” is Mr. Fenn for which I speak that is, “Smarter than the average bear.” I believe your comment may have suggested you were speaking of Mr. Fenn rambling and not getting it, rather than yourself. If I am incorrect, my sincerest apologies to you.

        • No sincerest apologies needed pdenver.
          We are all seeking the same goal & should not regret for speaking our minds towards such.

          Do you have any thoughts about the mirror theory which has been discussed my many searchers?

          • OK pdenver,

            ” I have been thinking about it myself.”
            Suit yourself, I respect your private thoughts.
            I will continue to share as well as you, but much more as I have done.

            Now I will go look in the mirror & brush my teeth.
            Tried to get your opinion on this matter, but now, all I can see is 7 years bad luck.

          • Hello Jake Faulker. ‘I have been thinking about it myself,’ also means “I, like everyone else, have been trying to understand what it could mean.” I continue to share my thoughts with others. Reflections was one I have already shared.

            Does everyone tell everything they know about their solution before finding out for themselves if it’s correct?

          • pdenver,
            I can’t speak for everyone, & would not want to. I do not expect them to reveal everything they know about their solution.
            I guess I’ll have to look in past comments from you to see what you were thinking out load about.

  75. Weekly Words for April 1st, 2016:

    -Forrest, You said you were able to read the name of the French Fallen soldier along with the poem in English below the name, but you never reveal the name in the book.
    What was the name of this soldier? I been researching this and it might be impossible and may be no reverence to your poem. My thought is you would want this person remembered like you would want to be remembered. ~Shannon

    -“Heck Shannon, you just widened one of my largest fault lines. In my haste to get back to the helicopter and leave that place, my effort was expended trying to remember the inscription, and I repeated it over and over. In that process the soldierโ€™s name was not retained.
    All I remember is that his last name had an x in it. Is it strange that I would remember that? But there are no regrets because now he is my personal Unknown Soldier whose lack of identity stands as a metaphor for all men and women who fell in that ugly war and have now faded from our memory.” f

  76. THE CHEST HAS BEEN FOUND!!! i WILL BE SENDING DAL AND FORREST PICTURES…..April Fools day:) All Jesting aside, I wonder what will we all do if the chest is found in our lifetime? Would we all just move on and give up that thrill of the chase? What if the person who finds it leaves another treasure in the exact same place? I mean at least we could find where it was and continue the chase. Or how about everyone pitching in a couple of dollars thru Dal’s site(i’m sure he would deserve a fee) and when the pot reached 100,000 or so Dal could hide it with clues or the person who found Forrest’s chest could hide the new chest in the spot where Forrest hid his? Is this too unrealistic? I just never want the chase to be over. Its too fun ๐Ÿ™‚

    • I don’t get it… I thought the chase was about whatever you find each time you go out… Maybe a pacer, an arrow head, a bottle of grapette, maybe just taking in the sights most don’t see.

      Is this nothing more than a treasure hunt for gold? Please leave us something worthy if found, so we can have an excuse to get are tuckus of the sofa!

      Now we have a guy who is looking to fenn for bail money… Maybe he’s planning on trespassing, or going on a government facility…who knows. As nice as folks want to be… Some even truly caring, why bother to encourage someone who knows he’s might be doing wrong to start with.

      I’m really at a lost for words… At least the ones I can say on a personal blog.

      • Seeker, IMO it is whatever you find – it is where you find it – and perhaps if you follow the poem, you will find what ff found that is his treasure. I get the feeling that the treasure to be found is what each person finds and that the thought of a bronze box is a lure to get people out looking and finding their own treasure or his at the end of his poem.

      • Hello seeker

        I believe you have misunderstood me and maybe I wasnt very clear… Here is a question for you. If Mr Fenn hid a chest and let’s say he even hid it on his land wouldn’t we still have to trespass to find the chest?? Regardless of where the chest is hidden and regardless of it has gold, gems, and etc if we follow the poem and it leads to Forrests secret spot even if all we will find is serenity and peace, maybe that’s the chest… My problem with this whole “motivation” thing is I don’t need an excuse to get outside or look for adventure… I don’t need the Rocky Mountains to enjoy serenity or nature where I live or just whatever I discover on my trip… So, why write a poem about a treasure?? I get the idea but 15 years is a lot work to just motivate people into the mountains? I think he has both a long term and short term vision for the chase because he buried jars with the poem for someone in the future to find so the Thrill of the Chase will live regardless if there is a treasure chest or not…. Of course there is the possibility I’m wrong, have been before and if I am it won’t be the last… All just IMO.

        • John,
          Should the chest be on private land… the searcher must plan.. think about that. When you posted about bail, and taking the long way around so you wouldn’t get caught doing something… it’s raises a red flag. Not only to what you may think your solution may be… but to the lengths you’re will to go.

          Others have thought about private land involvement, and most attempt to get permission. So lets go with your question about “fenn’s land” If ya solve the poem correctly, you have choices, break the law, or write to fenn and say, I solve the poem and the chest sit next to your pond.

          Many years of chats have been going on about, private property possibilities. I would say this, how can that secure the chest location… land sold?, developed? old or new owner’s involvement? so many uncontrollable variables to count.
          This is not about where they chest ‘may lay in wait’… it’s about the length of your actions you’re willing to take.
          So yes, when you post about Bail, Post about sneaking around hoping to not get caught, Post about high risk… some may say to you ” be careful out there ” I have to ask… what is it that makes you think you must risk Arrest, Jail, Criminal action… when supposedly a three year old girl can get to the chest with some assistance? Do you think Mom and Dad would risk little Sally in this type of action? when one of the reason fenn decided to do this was to get “kids” and “families” out of the house.

          I won’t bother getting into the 15 years of re-write or the 20 plus years to finalize this challenge… that is all speculation anyways, it is about what you seem to be wanting to do… I for one will say this, If you’re planning on doing something wrong, illegal, even completely stupid… I’m not gonna blow rainbows out of the golden trumpet for you. If ya gonna whine that friends and family don’t believe in you… maybe you should ask yourself… are they trying to protect me?

    • I don’t think the chase should ever end or at least the spirit of the Chase. If I was the finder I wouldn’t let it end. when I imagine me finding the chest, and when I open it there’s a beautiful bronze plate with another poem on it, but that’s just my imagination.

  77. my heart skipped a beat for a moment. I would love for the chase to continue. If the poem doesn’t last that doesn’t mean the chase has to be over. The legacy can last thousands of years. If I found it i would want to start another chase but I have no cash. Was thinking book sales of the autobiography and obviously my boring story (not too many details) and the solution. It’s nice to kick back and dream every now and again and no think about living with my family in our truck.

    • If I found the chest I’d work with Mr. Fenn on hiding another one that ties in with his poem if that’s what he wants. I like the idea of getting people off the couch to go exploring.

  78. What would really be exciting is if a dozen or so billionaires took some inspiration from FF and hid there own cache or multiple caches. There are plenty of wealthy people around who could easily part with a million dollars here, a million there. That indeed would get people away from boob tube “news” and those dreadful handheld tech devices, and redirect them out into nature. Of course land management bureaucrats would throw a fit, since they don’t really want people enjoying wilderness or public lands, but we might could do well with fewer land “managers” anyway. ๐Ÿ™‚

  79. Not a day passes that I don’t question myself about what lies just ahead and whether or not I can make it happen like it’s supposed to be. Now, near the end of my seventy-ninth year, each day tests me in a different way and I know that before too long I’ll make my last flight to where even memory itself will never have been. Sooner or later each of us will be nothing but the leftovers of history or an asterisk in a book that was never written. So now I sit here past midnight, beside my juniper fire, reflecting back to the years when my awareness took its first few steps. *

      • Hi Jake Faulker,


        Not sure I follow the reference to this page with no additional comment.

        • Hello twingem,
          I forgot to add the book & page where the quote was taken from above.
          There are some who have not read the book & may think these were my words.
          There are some that have read the book & don’t remember the words.

          It’s nice to reflect back.

  80. Let’s forget clues and wealth for a moment and invite a healthy discussion…

    At this stage in the game we all believe Forrest can outsmart the best. In fact I believe he is a genius, based on subtleties and undercurrents built into his memoirs. Most of the time I’m just trying to understand who he is.

    The latest MW post drew my attention to the altered H Mencken quote; which should read, “after I depart this vale, you ever remember me and have thought to please my ghost, forgive some sinner and wink your eye at some homely girl.”

    What is most startling to me is that Forrest chose to include anything by Mencken. If you familiarize yourself with Mencken’s idealigogies you find a racially bigoted man with a distaste for science and math. I’m not sure what inference Forrest hoped his readers would make. Is Forrest hoping the reader will correct the quote or correct harmful racial beliefs in our society? It must be the latter – as what we know of Forrest is that he is man who esteems all men and encourages others to do the same.

    (Please don’t moderate this discussion)

    • Hello Lia,

      It may just be something memorable to f from that time and the experience and respect is something he wanted to share with us. The inscription may be a different version of the original or a simple recollection issue. I get song lyrics and verses mixed up all the time.

      For the sake of discussion, I can take a shot at analyzing the differences. Could someone post the two versions side by side? It helps to see them both simultaneously to detect a pattern.

  81. this has nothing to do with anything i’m researching, or thinking about at the moment- unfortunately nothing to with my solve either. but i was looking back at f’s scrapbooks- remember #49? in all the descriptions of spices, there was one photo of f. it was him with cloves. and there’s a photo of his hand with cloves in it. just a random thought, but it reminded me of the gloves one would need.

  82. “Egyptian theology attempted, above all else, to explain these cosmic phenomena, incomprehensible to humans, by means of a series of understandable metaphors based upon natural cycles and understandable experiences. Hence, the movement of the sun across the sky was represented by images of the sun in his celestial boat crossing the vault of heaven or of the sun flying over the sky in the form of a scarab beetle. Similarly, the concept of death was transformed from the cessation of life into a mirror image of life wherein the deceased had the same material requirements and desires.”


    “Why can’t I take it with me” f.

  83. Lia;

    Most of us were probably not aware that the inscription on the gravestone that Forrest found in that Viet Nam hill was an altered H. Mencken quote.

    Forrest may have remembered it incorrectly, or maybe whoever the inscription
    was for had remembered it incorrectly.

    I doubt that there was any nefarious intention. We all know Forrest to be a
    loving individual with no hidden agendas, other than wanting the world to
    see the wonders of the Rockies as they enjoy the Thrill of the Chase.

    Good luck to all searchers and STAY SAFE


    • JD & Magic8 – thanks for your responses. I agree with your conclusions.
      It just seemed some what out of character from what I too believe about f.

      It’s a lovely morning, I plan to go for a walk in the forest rather than blog today. Best to all.

  84. Search question for the smart searchers… Maybe this has been discussed before or one of you who lives close to the Rockies can answer, what geographical characteristic or features does the USA side Rocky Mountains have that the Canadian side Rockies don’t have or vice versa? Does anyone know or have discussed any?

    • Hello Oz10. If I’m not mistaken, I don’t believe there is really much difference to either side of the border. How are mountains formed? Shifts, internal heat from the core of the Earth, etc. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

    • Never been to Canada but I do know the Rockies well. The further south you go the more desert landscape you will see. You get different Sun cycles the further north you get.

    • Thanks. I am playing around with some older ideas regarding the search. The most popular option to start the search it seems from what I read around the blogs is always where a hot water spring flows or connects to a river or lake (WWWH) anywhere between Santa Fe and Montana and it’s just a matter of finding the right one. The problem with that theory is that there are plenty of hot springs in the Canadian Rockies as well as Canyons and other poem descriptions that match.

      I know we have the highlighted map, so we right away discard Canada. But what if he never had release the highlighted map??? Then the same amount of people who is looking between Santa Fe and Montana will also be looking all the way to almost Alaska. Is there something specific in the poem that points to the US side of the Rockies as a distinction from the other side?

      Fenn said that it was an unintended disclosure of a clue because the benchmark maps people drew it only to the Canadian border. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXupxL4ovmY&feature=youtu.be&t=2554
      He also says it won’t help you much to the discovery of the chest but in my opinion is worth pondering about our next steps. If my way of solving the clues are so generic that it can also work in Canada or any of the 4 states, then I am not reading the poem correctly… Right???

      • Hello Oz,

        The clues are malleable. If you work hard enough at it, you can make them fit at a wide variety of locations. In fact, my initial solve was in Canada and WWWH was Teardrop Lake. Thanks to benchmark maps, that’s one down, 117 to go. ๐Ÿ™‚

        Being open to interpretation, you can start seeing things that aren’t there.

  85. If anyone is interested in posting on this………
    I CAN keep my secret where,
    CAN=To be able (forward thinking?)

    So do you think FF wrote this part before he hide the TC.
    And the first sentence “future perfect tense”? As I have gone..

    Back to CAN. why can? Why not “I keep my ….”
    Head spinning……

      • My initial thought was the TTOC. I thought it was telling you to look in the TTOC for the WWWH. If that was the case then the TTOC would be required, so scratch that idea.

        • Yep Oz10, most likely…It isn’t ff…IMO

          Also IMO, WWWH has nothing to do with water…That is why it is at six years and counting…Water is a smokescreen, a distraction…

          Gotta find an avenue around the popular opinion…Such a myriad of choices down that wet road, it is virtually impossible to isolate one place, IMO…

          It is like a child’s riddle actually…The reason even a little girl from India CAN get the first two clues, but no closer to the treasure…Children play these word games…If she has a good understanding of English and her only aids are a map of the Rocky Mtns. and the poem, even SHE can get that much(and be confident)…

          This indicates she, or ANYONE for that matter, can get that far with proper interpretation of the wording and only these two items to use…It also indicates that what she CAN get is right in front of us all…It just takes imagination and recognition to find it…IMO

          The first two clues(in the poem) tell her where to go and the map shows it to her…She can’t get any closer(with confidence) unless she can go there…

          And the poem does yield that location…I do know where to go at least…It is hidden in the aberrations out along the edge…Been there once and learned the lay of the land…Still narrowing down where to look when I return…

          I will attempt one more shot at that banana and my chasing is done anyway, win or lose…

          • “The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues”. Funny words chosen. Why didn’t he use ‘solve’ instead of ‘closer than’.

          • IMO, f likes to play around with words. I believe the simplest explanation is , she can’t get closer because it’s “to far”.

          • By logic then, if I was in the Sandwich Islands, could I be not closer than 3 clues?

          • @Louie…Yeah Louie, planning a trip for June again…And yes, plan to spend at least a week camping, fishing, sightseeing, and of course searching…Will be doubling the trip length to two weeks…Want more time on site, but hopefully this time I’ll have a better idea of what I need to look for at the end…

            Of course should I be fortunate enough to find it, I’ll be on permanent vacation from that point on…Don’t care how long that might be…lol…

            Good luck to you Louie… ๐Ÿ™‚

          • @Oz10…I think he said exactly what he meant…

            And as to your second Q…Sure, if that is where the poem directs you…But fortunately not where it says one should go IMO…

            Unless you mean you live there and are solving the poem…In which case, the answer for you would be the same as for TLGFI… ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Just looking at a bigger angle… FF said: “Your destination is small, but its location is huge” How Yuuuge? Can a clue point to Asia or Africa?

        • Are there any objects placed in the Bronze Chest that are connected, or have meaning to the place the chest is hidden? ~ Mike

          No Mike, everything in the chest is straight forward and visual, except my autobiography, which some might find dull. Oops, I forgot, there is one thing in the chest that I have not talked about except to say I donโ€™t want to talk about it. It is something saved especially for the person who solves the clues. I think that person will be pleased when she sees it. f

          I found the word visual in the answer interesting. Something in the chest saved especially for the person who solves the clues… But is that the same person who will be pleased, when she sees it?

          Is something saved… coming from, she who will be pleased?

          • Will ‘she’ be honored because solving the clues involved knowing about ‘her’ ?

          • Hello Jake Faulker. You’re welcome. There is a necklace and a couple bracelets inside the chest. I believe anyone who looks upon the treasure chest will be pleased, as well as, knowing they solved Mr. Fenn’s poem.

          • A treat for the lady who finds it, that’s so cool. Pdenver, I got the Dr. Pepper

          • Not so fast KM,
            It might be a man that solves the poem & gives it to a woman.
            It could also be a Multigender person that solves it, & keeps it.
            Now I’m starting to confuse myself, which isn’t difficult to do.

          • Hello Kedar’s Mom. It would be interesting to know about what Mr. Fenn doesn’t want to talk about that’s in the chest. Glad to hear you have the Dr. Pepper to help celebrate. Be sure to have plenty of water, too. You must be getting really excited for your adventure. ๐Ÿ™‚

          • “It is something saved especially for the person who solves the clues.”

            “I think that person will be pleased when she sees it. f”

            Oz10 asked about a voice coming from the chest… Are these two sentences talking about the same person?
            Is “I think that person will be pleased” they same as “the person who solves the clues”?

            Another words; is the person who will be pleased, connected to the Item, “saved” especially for the finder.

            Saved, meaning kept. maybe a memorabilia, an item owned by another, something cherished and protected by one for another… now being passed down as a type of reward to the finder.

          • Hello Jake Faulker. Your statement may be true, but what if it truly is a “she” that finds it first? Some women have a keen sense for things like that. ๐Ÿ˜‰

            Keep up the good work with solving the poem.

          • Good morning Jake, try not to be confused. :+)
            Good morning pdenver. It is fun to wonder what else is in the chest. It’s another week closer and the excitement is building. Will be sure to have plenty of water.

    • oh, oh pick me.
      Carl Celian Icahn (born February 16, 1936) geez, this guy is out of control. Wouldn’t surprise me if, at one time he tried to market a competing smartphone named iCan

      • I was getting frustrated by not finding the ‘WWWH_ not related to a dam’ quote, but I did find this [ Fenn replies to a searchers question] , hopefully I will mull it over in a dream …………
        ” If you find my treasure please give a little to someone who must otherwise do without and let the remaining baubles be seeds for your next adventure. Keep me informed about where you are and what you are doing.โ€

    • ‘I keep my secret where’ IMHO, sounds like a question, ‘can’ keeps
      It clear.

  86. I think the little girl from India problem is easy. She can’t get “closer” she is a little girl. Does she have a passport? If no, then she would need help and money to get here. If the chest is hidden in a park you would need a passport to get by for identification.. this is an IMO… but it us logical… I also think the she he was talking about will probably be something he left so Peggy would be pleased… not the finder…The finder may or may not understand the significance of this bauble… IMO…

    • JohnCena,

      So your logic would imply that IF she can not get closer beyond the first two clues because she is unable to travel, THEN the first two clues aren’t places but rather concepts. Is this what you are trying to say?

      Was going to write a little bit about the possibility of the other clues not being on the map she is using, but felt the above was enough to start with.

      FYI – many others are probably moaning right now since this was already hammered into the ground repeatedly. ๐Ÿ™‚ But what the heck.

      Scott W.

        • IMHO No not concepts. First two locations clues touch or are adjoiningโ€ฆ

      • After the second clue it says “put in”. Can’t do that in India. So she cannot get closer

      • Hey Scott w

        In my solve, the little girl from India cannot get closer because she cannot travel now. Because she would need an Identification to enter the place. I don’t think she isn’t able to get “past” as in defining the third clue, literally getting closer to the third clue. No, the first two clues are indeed places in my solve. I’m saying that to get closer she wold need an identification to get physically closer to the location…

    • Thanks for the link Threerocks. I wish I would have had an opportunity to hear him lecture about his experiences and those of his people. I’ll have to watch the episode in Ken Burn’s documentary “The War” about Joe Medicine Crow. I was watching the 1st part of Ken Burn’s documentary about Lewis and Clark last night and it reminded me of Forrest and Donny’s adventure when they went looking for the Corps of Discovery’s path to the Pacific. If anyone wants to watch some excellent documentaries about some of the important people in the history of the U.S., watch the Ken Burn’s series on “American Lives” available on Amazon’s streaming video. The in-depth biographies are fascinating and well worth your time.

    • Hello threerocks. Thank you for posting this link. I just viewed it and I’m speechless. What an honor. His song continues.

  87. People are the rarest treasures.

    May your spirit fly home on wings of eagles, Joe Medicine Crow, to the great council fire of your ancestors. Thank you for a life well lived serving your People of the Crow Nation, and the People of the United States. Your bravery and spirit will be missed.

    • pdenver,

      I find a connection with “Russia” to be most interesting.

      Forrest has written about his “idol”…..Nicolai Fechin, the great artist; (the ‘human”) with much love and respect. Forrest and his family actually journeyed to Russia in order to return Fechin’s cremated remains to his beloved homeland.


      • Hello SL. It is interesting to possibly find a connection with Russia. What Mr. Fenn and his family did for Nicolai Fechin was outstanding.

  88. For the Odds and Ends crowd, a curious note…

    clue = hint (hint of riches)
    clew = ball of string, as Theseus used to begin the Labyrinth, and in F’s collection (warm waters here might halt with Crete, or con-crete, if I were clever).
    cluse = narrow gorge, a canyon, like where he was heading while riding Lightning… this word also appears in Reynard the Fox… Wish I could figure out where Krekenpyt and Husterlo is, somewhere in Flanders.
    clou = a major point of interest, or a nail, like those used in his bells
    clowe = cloves, to split, like cluse

    It would be funny if there were 9 variations that all aligned with the poem.

  89. SL – thanks for posting the information on Forrest’s maternal grandfather. You mentioned further information if anyone was interested. I’m always interested and would appreciate your kindness to make the information available. I had researched both Simpson and McElwain names back to Scotland looking at family crests etc. but came to no conclusions that would help with my solution. I do think Mindy is on the right track with Fenn being a Scandinavian derivative of Kven. I looked into using ancient ruinic symbols which closely mirror NA pictographs.

  90. I am just repeating this message from Sacha in case you are not subscribed to the Fennboree page:

    I just want to let everyone know that if you want to make sure you get your Official Fennboree shirt in time for Fennboree, then you need to order by May 1st. You can still order after that, but I canโ€™t promise it will be ready in time for the event.

    You can get your official Fennboree shirts here:


    I am looking forward to seeing everyone there!


  91. Does anybody recall if forest has ever said how far below the blaze the treasure is ? Right below it, 50′ down hill below it etc.?

  92. Just walked the Big 4 Bridge in Louisville, Ky. It is a nice bridge that crosses the wide Ohio river. It used to be a railway bridge, but now has been converted for pedestrians and bicyclists. It is a main source of entertainment in this area. Its popularity has stemmed a restuarant Big 4 Burgers. The morning commute to work however has been horrible for nearly the last 4 years. They are building a couple new bridges to alleviate this issue. Construction is nearly complete but now there will be a toll of $4 each way and even more for larger vehicles. IMO I would rather wait in traffic than pay that outlandish fee.

  93. I cannot believe how far reaching into abstraction many searchers are getting into. The poem is straight fwd. in June when I go out I will post my solve win or lose. I am area list and know it is probably not there. But I gotta know. Hope early June is warm enough.

  94. Hello Everyone,
    Well the wife and I went out to (oops) almost told you. So we may continue our search. It was a great drive and we really enjoyed the lay overs. When we arrived at (oops) almost told you again. My wife was looking pretty tired so checking in, she started as usual and then stepped over by me and asked me if I could finish checking in because she wasn’t feeling the best, so I gladly told her yes. She then stepped into the bathroom and I went on checking us in when we heard a very loud crashing and slamming into the walls and floor. Yes, my wife had just passed out and fell backwards to the floor hitting the back of her head on the very front point of the toilet the her arm against the wall and finally her head against the ceramic tile on the concrete floor. She ended up blocking the door, so I couldn’t get in, so the manager ran outside and start pounding on the glass. She finally came to enough to open the door. I picked her up and tried to get her in a chair but she passed out again. After another minute she came to enough to get her to our room on the bottom floor. The manager had to leave so he told me if I need anything else, room 115 is his wife and she can help. He forgot to ask me if I speak Korean, and I don’t… So I finally called 911 and 2 people were dispatched immediately and they arrived and called for the ambulance. It took over 20 minutes to get there and when they looked at her they said “to the hospital, NOW.” So we all took off for the hospital and the ambulance turned off the lights and slowed down to 15 mph because my wive’s wound started spurting blood everywhere. By the time we reached the hospital she had lost a lot of blood and was covered in it as well as the ambulance. Well to make this long story shorter they scanned everything to do with her head and said she’s going to be ok after they remove the blood clotting, clean her up and staple her head back together.
    We decided to call off this search and try again after she has her staples removed ( weeks from now). She’s a trooper people, she wants to get back out there before the end of summer. I said lets, see how your doing. She is my treasure that I found 20 years ago and no gold can replace that. Sorry Forest!!!
    Pictures to follow, wait she said something. OK, NO PICTURES to follow.
    She looked like a half dressed mummy. LOL

    • Hello Timothy Alkire. I’m so sorry to hear your wife went through all this. I’m glad she’s going to be okay. Please take good care of yourselves. You both already treasures a long time ago…each other. Please tell your wife I wish her a speedy recovery for her own personal well-being.

    • I hope all will be OK with both,
      How did you know:
      “fell backwards to the floor hitting the back of her head on the very front point of the toilet the her arm against the wall and finally her head against the ceramic tile on the concrete floor.”
      You did say you were checking in. Were you in the bathroom checking in?
      Well anyway, don’t stretch yourselves to thin to look for treasure. As you said she is your treasure.
      Sometimes our frame of mind isn’t what it should be including mine.

      • Timothy, Wow she is lucky she has you! I think PDenver is right…

        โ€˜You both already found treasures a long time agoโ€ฆeach other.โ€™

        She doesn’t need an old musty box full of gold she has you,…:)

    • Timothy,
      Don’t forget call 911 “NOW”. Glad to hear that your wife is feeling much better and alert enough to say” no pictures”. ๐Ÿ™‚
      Too funny!

  95. Good luck to you both. Hope for a speedy recovery.

    Any idea what caused her to block-out in the first place?

    Hope you have a battery of test done to determine cause.

    Good luck in your later searches – STAY SAFE


  96. I am not sure which post to ask this on but this seemed to fit the best.

    I asked Forrest this question through email and hoped to get a reply because I didnโ€™t think it gave too much of a clue, or any real information at all, it was just honest curiosity. But, after a few weeks of thinking and no reply (tons of emails a day = too many to read), I needed to ask anyone else.

    It came to me when I was riding my motorcycle to the office (Iโ€™m in Florida, so sunny and low-80s all week!) when I saw a small coyote dragging a dead possum off there road. I silently thanked the coyote for getting it off the road and out of my way and kept on riding. Like everyone here, the Chase is always in the back of my mind trying to work itself out, and just as I turned the bike off at work it hit me:

    Did Forrest ever worry, or consider, that maybe an animal might stumble across his body and drag it off away from his spot and the chest?

    Forrest seems to plan EVERYTHING down to the very last detail. Was this an oversight? (IMO, I doubt it)

    In hindsight, even if he just answered โ€œYes, I considered it,โ€ and nothing else, that might actually provide a clue, or at least a hint. For example, the chest is in a closed cave, on an island, or somewhere that canโ€™t be reached by scavenging animals.

    • Reap,
      I would have to think he thought about this many times.
      If you think about it, there aren’t many places in the Rockies where scavenging animals will not take advantage of a free meal.
      Anyway, why would you care what eats you when you shed your shell?

      • Reap, don’t forget birds can go almost anywhere, and a lot are scavengers.

        IMO maybe its not so far away and secret and he wanted his body returned to his family,

        • “he wanted his body returned to his family”

          So, he heads out to an area that is special to him (not near amusement parks or modern civilization) where he wants his bones & body to rest for eternity. I can visualize the ravens now.

          I know it’s your opinion, but I think your missing something here.

          IMO, how would you make a decision staying far away from hospitals & letting your body be sustenance for the environment you love so much?

          • That is funny Seeker and Pd. But to answer that new challenge is easy, mix the sleeping pills with some Grapette hold the bottle with your lips while you finish taping yourself and then just look up to the blaze.

            Sorry for the raw imagery but this is what happens when you have been making sense of this poem for 2 weeks straight. lol..

          • Congratulations on your 2 week anniversary of reading the poem.
            I wonder what happens after a few years?
            Probably only bones & teeth left after being pecked & chewed away.
            Let’s not forget the flies, maggots & microbes.
            Nah, bones, hair & teeth only after a month in summer.

            Follow the circling vultures to find the chest.

          • Flies, maggots and microbes… that is going to happen of course. The idea is not to mummify yourself, is only that your body is not dragged away by bears, coyotes or vultures and to increase the chances that your bones are fossilized in the spot that you choose. Maybe anchor yourself with a 42 pound chest.

          • I would have to think that Forrest has thought of these things as well as us typing about it.
            Why worry about things you cannot control?
            Just give a free meal. You won’t feel it. Your bones & flesh will turn to dirt whether it turns up from a digestive system or lies in the sun.
            There’s no place you can pass here where you can control what happens to your remains. Not that I know of short of incinerating your body into ashes.
            My opinion because I missed the obvious.

          • @William – agreed from my side on the theme. I believe his mentions of leaving his bones in some location with his chest is just piratic hyperbole, but tied to the theme and a very important clue in the 9 clues of the poem.

    • Good observation. He probably had a plan for that too. I don’t think he meant for the redneck to get there at that moment and have those 12 kids mentally scarred for life. So if the “leave my bones and go in peace” was going to part of the poem then those bones needed to be there 500 or 1000 years from now.

      • Hello Oz10. To add to your comment. Bones will decompose above ground and will not last 500 or 1000 years from now.

        • Hey pd, F is very smart and these kind of things are right up his alley. I am not going to speak for him but if I wanted to solve that challenge I could think of a few things.

          First, I will not just sit there and wait for the cancer to take me, I will plan the date, time and place and will have to take myself out with the right kind of poison, one that will liquefy my insights so there is less putrefaction. But before that, I will wrap my limbs with rock salt and duct tape, dress like a scarecrow, bear spray myself and positioned myself beneath a small stream of water so the calcium, salt and sediments will fossilized my bones in the future. I don’t know about these things but that is good effort. Sounds like a plan?

          • lol… I just expanded my usage list for duck tap.
            Hold fender to truck after accident.
            Tape leaking radiator hose.
            Hold sole of sneaker together when glue gives way.
            Use for mummification when I go to my finale resting place… lol… Now all I need is to figure how to bend my tapped arm to swallow a bottle of sleeping pills.

          • Hello Oz10. Wow. First of all, let me agree with you that Mr. Fenn is, indeed, very smart. Why would he want to do what you described?

          • Hello Seeker. You beat me to it. I was going to make a long comment about this post, but kept erasing my words. It simply became too graphic. I was going to state the same thing about not being able to bend my arms to take the poison with duct tape around them. Heck, I was going to also ask, why tape just the limbs? Dang! I can’t get the visualization out of my mind now.

    • Reap,

      In my opinion and theory, yes, Forrest thought of this and the location he chose as his final resting spot would have taken this into account.

    • Reap,

      I don’t know about, fenn’s intention of having family retrieve the body, if any, I’m sure the family was well aware of his original intentions. Or how long it takes uncovered bone to decomposed, or even if he was worried little Joe Billy Bob would be shock to come across… But I think we over emphasize the words… ‘I thought of everything.’

      Your question is a good one..imo.. to the possibilities that the chest should be relatively safe from being stumbled across, the bones should be relatively safe at the same time. So while we think of a how to solve the poem… we may want to keep in mind, and others have mentioned it… the intent to hide the chest with a long time span on his mind. The place the chest lays in wait should tell us that certain areas… located near a parking lot, hang from a tree in a public park, a tourist attraction [ that also depends on what a tourist attraction means to you… Mount Rushmore is an attraction] , etc. be questionable.

      Whatever planning he did do… would knowing the facts solve the poem? We’re kinda back to buried vs hidden… and working backwards. With that said, fenn did say, if a ‘searcher’ was within 12′ of the chest, he couldn’t imagine that they couldn’t find it. [paraphrasing].

      I’ll look up the exact quote, if I find it I’ll post it. But I hope that helps you.
      Where’s Loco when I need the heavy lifting done?

      • litterateone had posted the quote on the hidey place thread… thanks 1, ya save me some time. Loco must be mowing his lawn again.

        โ€œI have not said that a searcher was closer than 12โ€™ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.โ€

  97. If my spot in the right spot – Grizzlies are known to visit now and again.

    Do not think that the “carcass” would last long. Am sure Forrest knew this.

    I will know Saturday if “My Spot” is “THE spot”

    Good luck to all searchers, and STAY SAFE!


  98. Is it possible that Forrest included instructions inside the chest for the finder NOT to announce the find?

  99. Just got back from an expedition. Unfortunately I don’t have a story or photos to share of my adventure that wouldn’t give too much away on where I was looking. However, it was a grand adventure! It was a short trip, but I went with my dad again. These things fill the conversations at Thanksgiving tables for years to come.

    Speaking of dinner tables, I did want to share one related story. So we get back, we’re hungry after camping, so we decide to go to a Chinese buffet. We got our money’s worth as the empty plates stacked up after each return trip to trough. We finally call it quits, they bring us the check, and the fortune cookies. I couldn’t make this up, but here’s mine:


    Apparently Chinese fortune cookie makers have a sense of humor. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Hello Jeremy P. I think I’ll follow behind you. Where do you hunt? ๐Ÿ™‚

      I’m glad you had a lot of fun and I wish you the best of luck. Never know what good fortunes awaits you. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Begin it where the egg drop soups and take it in the buffet down, skip the sushi rolls and pass the chicken fried rice, put in below the home of General Tso. That is where you should hunt. That’s where they keep the good stuff ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Now that’s a howl Jeremy,
      Somehow I think there is truth in that fortune cookie message.
      I am trying to translate the characters on the table as well.
      Please let me know where this restaurant is?
      Thanks for sharing your cookie notes.

    • Nice!
      But don’t be afraid to share general information about where you searched and what led you there. Look at what otherrs have posted about their spot. They lead us right up the creek and then stop. It’s safe, yet informative. Looking at somebody elses solve can be as difficult as understanding the poem. Because unless we are actually there we can’t see what you have in mind. IMO

      • Sorry Michael, I really don’t have anything to share at this time, maybe later. We didn’t find the chest, so it doesn’t matter.

    • “I couldnโ€™t make this up”
      Sorry Jeremy,
      I am not chewing on this cookie.
      The white background is to perfect & the text is as well.
      No wrinkles, or folds, to be in a fortune cookie.
      Key word “in”
      The shadows on the table are OK but not good enough.

      Check please!

        • Jeremy,
          When they tell you it isn’t real, remember, it’s still real.
          OK, the background changed & couldn’t figure out the Chinese Symbols on that table anyway.

          I will have to take this as face value & expect to find the treasure where it’s least expected.


          Burn that message & cookie.

          Now, if I got a message that tells me where the home of Brown is?
          I would still incinerate it.

          • “OK, the background changed & couldnโ€™t figure out the Chinese Symbols on that table anyway.”

            I am not going to analyze searchers reports, I’ll be fried by fried day. Analyzing forest’s speak, writing, pics etc etc is more than I am capable.
            Good fortune to you who have that reach!

  100. Too bad for the Chinese that they don’t understand our language. Expected showld read “expect it”. Sounds a lot like TTOTC.

  101. One little thing. There has been in the past a question about Fenns Rainbow. What is it, where is it, how is it,and why. I think that I have found an answer. This quote is from the book ‘Picuris Pueblo Through Time’
    by Michael A. Adler and Herbert W. Dick

    “Rainbows In the Picuris paintings, rainbows appear only near the subsidiary ventilator on the west wall opposite the main ventilator. The rainbows are paired, one on either side of the subsidiary vent in Kivas. In Kiva A the rainbows are asymmetrical; the one on the south side has bands of white, red, green, yellow, and green in a shallow arc placed on a level with the top of the subsidiary vent shaft. The rainbow on the north has red, green, and yellow bands in a semicircular arc beginning at about the midpoint of the shaft opening. In Kiva B plaster was found only on the west wall, but that wall had been replastered and painted three times . On each layer, a rainbow was found just north of the subsidiary ventilator. On the earliest layer, the rainbow consists of a narrow black border above and below framing three wider bands of red, green, and red; the second layer has bands of yellow, black, green, and red; and the final layer is like the first. The rainbows of the first and the final layers are approximately in the same position; that on the middle layer is lower and offset a bit toward the south. In Kiva B, the south rainbow is angled at the sides rather than curved, and a single corn plant with a bird perched on top is placed between the subsidiary ventilator and the north rainbow. The south rainbow was painted in alternating bands of yellow and gray, with a color reversal in the north rainbow. In Kiva C, corn plants flank the subsidiary ventilator, with similar rainbows of red, gray, black, gray, yellow, gray, black, gray, and red next to the corn plants on either side. The corn plants are absent in Kiva D, and the rainbows consist of bands of white, red, black, and red.”

    I hope this answers some question about the colors and where they may be found.

    • Hello Michael. Thank you for posting this information. It was quite interesting to read. I don’t know New Mexico very well, so please forgive my following question. Are people allowed to walk through Picuris Pueblo to see these beautiful sites for which you’ve mentioned?

  102. Michael, I appreciate your information – I’m not at all familiar with NM. So, i took a tour via Online videos and stumbled upon this amazing footage…
    Blumenshein painting at Taos Pueblo. I wonder if Forrest has seen the film footage?


    I need a larger bucket. My list now includes the high road to Taos pueblo.

    • Hello Jake Faulker. It certainly seems like he may be trying to say something to us. “Fallow” is an interesting choice of words. Not sure whether to look at the word by itself, or the sentence as a whole. It’ll be fun to think about. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Hello SL. Thank you for the information. I greatly appreciate it. Trying to understand if we should go with the obvious meaning(s) for “fallow” or if we should stretch it a little. In “fallow,” I can see, with a little twist, “low fall,” perhaps Lower Falls? Not sure. Again, trying to understand where Mr. Fenn is going with this. He’s quite clever and we need to stay on our toes. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • If your spot it spot on then fallow your dreams over the rainbow, but careful to walk
          slowly as not to leave footprints in the unused land. the colors of the rainbow run very wide neither one color is red nor one color is green all the the colors of the rainbow blend together so you can look inside to see what the rainbow hides.

  103. pdenver,

    My first thought was “Lower Falls” as well. Wouldn’t want to rule out other definitions, tho.

    **nused/ neglected etc.


  104. Someone was asking if Spanish translations would help, I don’t know if F answer that or not. I had translated the poem a while back for my own use just to see if I could get a better understanding but the truth is that is as confusing in Spanish as it is in English. So far in my search a few translations have become useful like ‘ojo caliente’ which is hot spring. Any hole where water comes from the ground is an ‘ojo de agua’. Ojo=eye. Another one is the ‘Rio Arriba’ county in NM which borders CO. Rio arriba= river above- river high- water high. Last, Aguas Frias and everyone knows what that is and where. All three in NM. Here is the poem:

    Como yo he ido solo allรญ
    Y con mis tesoros resuelto,
    Yo puedo guardar mi secreto donde,
    E insinuar de riquezas nuevas y pasadas.

    Empiรฉzalo donde tibias aguas interrumpen
    Y tรณmalo en el caรฑรณn abajo,
    No lejos, pero muy lejos caminando.
    Mรฉtelo debajo del hogar de Marrรณn. (Brown)

    De allรญ no es lugar para el sumiso,
    El final estรก cada vez mรกs cerca;
    No hay que remar arroyo arriba,
    Solo cargas pesadas y agua alta.

    Si has sido sabio y encontraste la seรฑal,
    Mira rรกpido abajo, tu bรบsqueda va a cesar,
    Pero demora brevemente con contemplaciรณn maravillada,
    Solo coja el cofre y vaya en paz.

    Entonces porque es que me tengo que marchar
    Y dejar mi tesoro para que todos lo busquen?
    La respuesta yo ya la conozco,
    Lo he hecho cansado, y ahora estoy dรฉbil.

    Entonces รณiganme todos y escuchen bien,
    Su esfuerzo serรก valorado por el frio.
    Si esta valiente y en el bosque
    Yo te doy derecho al oro.

  105. I found this little diddy on Wikipedia, I wonder how often Fenn edits there…

    “Questa was originally named San Antonio del Rio Colorado. Later, a U.S. postmaster changed its name to Questa.
    The postmaster misspelled the name โ€” according to Spanish spelling rules, it should have been spelled Cuesta, which was derived from the Spanish for “ridge” or “slope.”
    Despite the error, the village has kept the name.”

    • This thread is really gaining steam, love it!
      Questa Seis

      Is there a 6 up there? OR Questa cease. How about Cabresto Creek in Questa? Cabresto is Portuguese for Halter. I think it means halter on a horse as oppose to the verb to stop or slow down. Of course that’s how one uses the halter right? Cabresto road follows the creek down. There is a Cabresto Lake back there. Halter Lake. The lake is warm water the creek is cold water not sure if there are trout up there.

      Are we on to something or just making things fit as always? Anything new here?

      And don’t get me started on the other horse terminology in the poem because I begin to sound nutz!

  106. I’ve been mulling over “look quickly down” Honestly, I don’t think it literally means to look quickly down. I think we need to find a word that means look quickly down. The most obvious or is GLANCE. It means to look quickly down.

    But interestingly, it has some other meanings that could apply to the poem. If used as a noun, it can also mean ‘reflection of light”. When used in literary terms, it can mean a flash or gleam of light. What if this clue is intended to get us to consider a word that means look quickly down, rather than directing us to literally look quickly down?

    There are some other things to consider about the word GLANCE. The Latin root of glance is ‘glacies’, Old English is ‘glace’ (ice), Old French is ‘glacier’, Old German is Glanz, meaning brightness or luster.

    Another definition of glance can mean ‘a shiny sulfide ore of lead, copper or other metal.

    These definitions kind of change the view of the poem don’t they?

    • When trout are feeding on bottom nymphs they rarely rise or look up. MAybe theres a look down there somewhere.

  107. Puzzled;

    In an old solve, I found an archaic definition for “Look quickly down”

    Look – Examine
    Quickly = Intelligent or Poignant aroma
    Down = Downstream

    Therefore: Intelligently look in the pine grove (aromatic pine needles)
    downstream from the blaze.

    It was such a unique interpretation of the three words, I was sure it would
    lead me to the treasure. Regretfully it did not. Maybe it will help others.

    Good luck to all searchers, and STAY SAFE


      • I’m in for a $2, because I have a hunting partner, but no pennies, lol. It’s all in good fun!

          • Ooops, I know I’m not heading to where you are searching. WY…correct? Lol, I have to wonder why it matters?

          • Why would it not matter?
            If you are looking in my area, then the odds have to change either way, it’s only logical.
            Seeing you put up 2 bucks at the window & didn’t agree with the contract about my area, your 2 bucks will only win you one buck if you find it.
            But if you do not find glory, you will owe me 2 bucks.
            Agreed KM?

            So when are you heading out anyway?

          • I said… I know I’m not heading to where you are searching. Isn’t that good enough?
            It’s a fun bet for $2 and you can take it or leave it.:+)
            I’m not gonna say where I’m going for safety/personal reasons. Baring any unforseen circumstances we’d like to go withing a month.

          • Hold those horses again KM.
            Seeing my bro James is going with me on my solve, I will pluck a dollar from his wallet when he his sleeping to cover our shortcomings. 2 on 2, it will be.
            Bring your waders. You may get soaked for a couple.

          • Lol. Sounds great JF $2 it is :+)
            This is another great part of our adventure. I’m only going to experience this once so everything has to be perfect including the friendly wager.

        • OK, KM, No pennies, just having fun with the chase. I will take your 2$ action only if you are not looking in my area. I would not take any money from here anyway.

          • Kk, sounds good. Will let ya know the results of our adventure. It will be a long drive there and back. ;+)

          • Whoa, KM,
            Hold your horses back. There was a stipulation to the accord.
            I don’t think you fulfilled that part. I have mentioned many times where my search area is in more than a few comments. This is 2 bucks where talking about here.
            Are you searching in the same area as me?

          • Hope the government isn’t going to take action on all these online bets under the Unlawful Internet Gambling Act of 2006…lol

          • MT,
            Why would the government care about a few bucks that don’t exist in the monetary world when they already know it’s on our land? Speaking of which, I think it’s on Forest Service Land, that Forrest knew about before them & helped clear. But I’m sure the natives were there before us. Shame on our government.
            Excuse me now, The end is ever drawing night.

          • OMGosh…see above for the reply. It went to the wrong place, then the reply reply went to the wrong place too. sheesh.

    • That is a really interesting definition as well. I just figure that if we share information like this with one another, then eventually someone is going to line everything up correctly.

  108. Wow Litterate one
    What a amazing story. As a old marine I can only feel full compassion for Forest. LUCK, well maybe a little but this is a man who took his life, family and job to heart. He had to make a lot of choices and one could have changed his life forever if the Jolly went down. Forest would have had to live with that for the rest of his life. LUCK. I don’t think so. This man trained into that jet and every night before he flew his mission he trained again and again until he becone the man that he is. That’s not LUCK that’s a man ready for any possible outcome….
    Thanks for the story Literate and Forest, Thanks for your service….

    • Timothy Alkire,

      It was a great story and my favorite take out of it was this single line:

      “Forrest was ready for the Jolly.”

      You hit the nail on the head, he was always prepared for the “WHAT IF’S”

  109. Pdenver, In addition to Forrest’s generosity and promulgation of western artists…I think history will remember Forrest as one “badass” fighter pilot. Someone mentioned a while back that he may have inspired the movie Top Gun. Did you know Top Gun two will be released this year?

    • Hello Lia. I agree with your statement. I didn’t know Top Gun II will be released this year. I believe he could have inspired the movie. I also believe, given the chance now, he would be “The best of the best.”

    • Altough no question he was a great pilot, I feel Forrest would want to be remembered for his accompliments in life. The devestation that war brings on people is the sands in time we all wish we could wash away and only leave one memory in a captured bottle to never break its seal again.

  110. IMO

    As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold,
    I can keep my secret where,
    And hint of riches new and old.

    The journey begins at the start of the Santa Fe Trail in Old Franklin + New Franklin in Missouri (Forrest mentions Ben Franklin in TTOTC). The water there is salty = does not freeze (warm). The is a place on the Santa Fe Trail called Wayne City Landing = Forrest wrote about a guy named Wayne + Wayne is the city that the school in the Catcher in the Rye is based off of. Forrest’s website is called OldSantaFeTrail.

    Check out http://www.santafetrail.org/interactive-trail-map/ ….

    This is all IMO. Maybe this will intrigue someones interest that is searching this summer and will help them live their dreams.

    • IMO
      Also there is a Town called Independence on the trail. Independence is a big theme to FF. William E. Brown Created in a map of the trail in the 1863 (you could say Warm waters is a metaphor for friendship…the North and South’s friendship ended around this time with regards to slave’s in the west)

  111. PURPLE
    Until this past week, I didn’t know what some of you were talking about when you mentioned that purple might be important in the solve. Somebody explained to me that there were several references in the book. So, if I can tell you what PURPLE item is connected to a word in the POEM (a word in the poem), can somebody tell me how this purple “thing” helps solve the poem?

  112. Random Bit of Potentially Useful Info
    I was looking up alternate definitions of “treasures” (stanza 1)
    Apparently ‘treasures’ comes from the Greek, “thesauros” or Old English, “thesaurus”.

    • …and Bingo! We have a winner! “Thesaurus” – knowing a little bit more about words in Forrest’s poem could be adventagous… and fun to learn something new.

  113. One of the fascinating things about the Yellowstone area for me is the collision of two distinctly different but equally impressive volcanic features.

    The Absaroka (pronounced Ab SARK ah) range was produced by a volcano “super group”….many volcanoes in two lines, roughly, and with volcanoes spaced roughly 60 km apart. These volcanoes, over some thousands of years, spewed enough ash and volcano stuff to bury entire forests throughout what is now north YNP and environs. Many of the trees buried 50 million years ago have been silicified, and you can hike up and see them today.

    So. Volcano Supergroup. On to Super Volcano. There is a difference. A Super volcano should not be even called a volcano. The Yellowstone caldera is not a point feature. It is the current end of a line still being drawn. The line starts in eastern Washington state, where the deep heat of the interior earth found a vent in a crack where the big North America plate jointed with other smaller crustal platelets it scooped up on its slow journey westward.

    The Columbia Plateau was born. Thousands of feet deep, slow moving lava covered most of eastern Washington and Oregon. Over many thousands of years. The “hot spot” was persistent. As the North American plate continued its creep westward, the hot spot erupted, melted, consumed, and otherwise decimated THE ROCKY MOUNTAINS as they passed, and continue to pass, overhead. Just look at any map–the Snake River plain is the path of the hot spot clean through serious mountains.

    Here’s the good part. The super volcano has now arrived at the volcano supergroup.

    Sometimes I wish I lived on a geologic time scale. I want to see this collision play out.

    • That’s a clear description Joseph. Written so that even I could understand and appreciate. I really like to hear folks who know what they’re talking about tell me what I am looking at but don’t understand.I’ve traveled that route so many times. I’ve read book after book about the area but your explanation makes it all fall into place for me.
      Are you a geologist…vulcanologist?

  114. edit: The youthful supervolcano has now arrived at the ancient volcano supergroup.

    That’s the contrast that entices me, and I left it out. Doh!

  115. But in the end, it’s only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn’t. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something.
    Frodo: What are we holding onto, Sam?
    Sam: That there’s some good in this world, Mr. Frodo… and it’s worth fighting for.
    Lord of the rings

    Still holding on here & the treasure is still holding on there.

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