445 thoughts on “The Hidey Space…

      • The place for the chest is full of sand
        The place for the chest is high as planned
        The place for the chest is grey of day
        The place of the chest came from clay
        The place of the chest is not that meek
        The place of the chest makes me weak
        The place of the chest will last a thousand year
        The place of the chest is oh so dear
        The place of the chest is below the blaze
        The place of the chest is at the end of the maze
        Is the place of the chest clue # 10 ?
        The place of the chest of course is a fen


        My bad , this isn’t a poem thread now is it ?

    • It’s in a well. An old fashioned water well. I realize that this goes against “not associated with any structure” but I think that is overly broad. The key part of that message was “don’t need to dig up any outhouses…” meaning that you don’t need to destroy/desecrate anything to find the treasure.

      I have very specific reasons for believing that I am correct that I’m not going to share because they tie to the rest of my solve, but I will share a lot of why I think this is correct in the hope that the rest of my solve (specific location of the well and TC) is incorrect, it can help someone else with theirs.

      1. FF has been clear that it was his intention that the treasure would also be his final resting place. “Leave my bones and go in peace”. This means that the hidey spot would have to be concealed and protected from being ravaged by animals and the effects of nature. In a river the bones would wash away. Anywhere else animals would take them, even in a cave. Only other space would be in an old mine shaft, which FF has specifically excluded as too dangerous.

      2. “I know it is wet”. Certainly would be. Always.

      3. “As I have gone alone in there”.

      4. “In the wood” (while the casing may be made of stone, the area above ground is almost certainly made of wood). You would have to be in it. The bucket is likely made of wood also.

      5. “It’s worth the cold”.

      6. “No place for the meek”

      7. “Heavy loads and water’s high”.

      8. “I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak”.

      9. “Look quickly down”.

      10. “The end is ever DRAWING nigh”.

      11. “If you are within 12 feet, you would surely find it” … looking down.

      12. “You won’t randomly stumble upon it”

      There is so much more…

      If this helps someone find the TC please let me know…

      • Stealth,
        I am not sold on it being in a well.

        “The chest is not in a dangerous place,” he has said. “It’s somewhere you could take your kids.”

        I think in a well might be a little dangerous.

        • Jake,
          If the chest be in a well it may not be dangerous if there is a catch, f always has a catch for us. The well concept is part of one of my unfinished solves.

          • Well,
            Maybe I will recant my last comment. Maybe I should know what type of wells there are or what we are talking about. Now, if the treasure is in a mini Thor’s Well lookalike that is not dangerous but more of a personal bathing spot, then that’s where I am going.

            But as far as wells to extract water from???
            I am not catching on. Doesn’t mean I will drink from this well, but sometimes you need to lead this horse to the well.

          • If f placed a ‘catch’ on the chest, bring a rope and a hook of some sort and fish it out. There many wells/cisterns, or whatever the Pueblos called the, out there from time gone by.

          • uken2it,
            I don’t think he would leave the chest unlocked in such a vulnerable position where the contents have a good chance of ending up at the bottom of the well.
            I don’t think you will need rope or any type of tool except for gloves to retrieve it.
            Just well wishing.

        • Jake, I could lead you and your horse to the well… but what fun would that be. I am confident that the blaze points right to it and then it’s just a matter of looking quickly down. I will admit I have a little more trouble with “tarry scant and marvel gaze”

  1. I think the chest is out in the open and unburied (in the classical sense of the word), but that Forrest covered it with rocks to obscure it.

    • So why is it that I must go
      And leave my trove for all to seek?
      The answers I already know,
      I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

      I still speculate that this part of the poem that has something to do with how the chest is hidden. To me it’s not just the the question but what the words mean that he used like “I’ve done it” and then he’s tired and weak. And most never catch that it has nothing to do with why he hide it. It’s a question without an answer.

      • I really like that connection… The task of retrieving the chest is too much for Forrest, who spent that same but opposite effort hiding the chest the day before (or however long the stay in there)…

        The question might not be about why he hid the chest, the question might be about why he didn’t change his mind and take it back. He already knows how much work is required.

        The clue might have to do with how much effort is required to retrieve the chest.

      • I do not know where he hid the treasure. I think I can guess on the type of place he hid the chest.

        When we were young playing hide and seek, how did the game go, where were the hiding places?

        Hide behind the door, in the closet, under the bed, behind the drapes, under the stairs?

        In other words in a simple fashion, not buried like with a shovel.

        Then comes the seek part of hide and seek.

  2. It could be below the blaze, between water high & heavy lodes, under water, partially covered in silt & gravel, maybe that’s why the treasure has gained a little weight & you will need gloves.

    • and in the rocky mountains north of santa fe and south of canada in wyoming, montana, colorado or new mexico.

      I lean toward colorada in my solves but think it is really in New Mexico.

    • Jake, no gloves, just a flashlight and sandwich, between 5,000′ and 10,200′ near or at a Marvel Gaze, by the heavy loads and water high, somewhere at the blaze in the Rockies past WWWH…..etc. etc

      Tom T

      • Tom,
        Did I mention I’m from New England & a big Patriot fan?
        Now, Tom does where gloves in bad weather, usually when it’s cold & wet.
        Somehow I know the treasure is probably still is cold & wet unless someone found it already.

        The flashlight is only a “if” you cannot find the needle in the haystack to deflate the balls in the dark.

        I don’t plan on it being dark unless it’s in a cave.
        I will bring a sandwich to give the Grizzlies another option to my pepper sprayed body, that’s what the bear spray is for.

        The heavy loads is when the Griz plants you into the ground.

        Stop trying to take the air out of the balls, unless you need to breath from them under waters low.

  3. I think that it is in a stream, behind a “Tarry Scant” – I will know Saturday, when I make trip #4 to my “Hidey Space”.

    Good luck to all searchers and STAY SAFE


    • I can see the tarry scant from GE.
      Good luck JD.

      You wouldn’t want to bet another buck, would you?

      I think it’s great you are bringing a van full. I had to find my way to nature on my own. Maybe you can get them to bring a few nickles & dimes to help pay your debt. I hope all of the kids find a treasure.

  4. Searchers, remember, the TC was “hidden” years ago, most likely out in the open, not buried, possibly protected by a natural structure, but has accumulated dust and dirt on the top and is probably growing natural grasses on the top starting in the Spring. So be looking for the square shape because the bronze patina and dirt will make a great disguise. Of course, still my opinion.

    • That makes some sense Skip,
      I am not sure it is most likely out in the open though.
      I don’t think you will happen upon it or trip over it for that matter.
      Not sure it would be able to be hidden for 1,000 years if it was in the open.
      I am assuming “open” means (this a tough one) above ground & above the surface of water & exposed to air & sun light if not being shaded by a cave or crevice or canyon.
      To many variables in the word “open”
      This is open for my opinion.

    • Your right Big Skip, don’t forget about moss, especially in wet locations. Very hard to recognize with all the natural camouflage, under the bush. IMO

      For any one who has read their kids ” THE CAT IN THE BOX” I would say it is in the grass, under the bush, in the woods, near a rive, in the forest, in a park, in the Rocky Mountains, North of Santa Fe, in the USA, in North America, on the third rock from the sun…..

      • Sorry I mentioned being the 3rd rock from the sun.
        In fact, today is a new moon & now we are the 4th rock from the sun.
        Seeing Merc & Ven have no moons.
        I guess it depends upon how big your rocks are?

    • same here Lou, on all points, except perhaps a bit more “cavey”. Google earth horribly distorts steep slopes, so I’ll need BOTG to find the exact spot

      Karen (below), f said something to the effect of ‘if you were within 12 ft it is unlikely you will not find it”….those words aren’t exact, but the 12 ft is iirc

      this leads me to believe it is plainly visible, just in a place it is very unlikely people will go by chance

      • Being within 12 feet.
        Doesn’t necessarily mean you see the chest.
        You may see the blaze that is near the treasure.
        Something tells me you will only be at this place for one reason.
        Not hiking, not fishing, not sight seeing.
        You will be there for only one reason, looking for the chest.
        This would explain to me why you would not find it being within 12 feet.

  5. Dal…..can you confirm?? I think I recall FF stating somewhere that “if someone is within 6′ (or some relatively small distance), they’ll probably see it”.

  6. alot of these answers seem like guesses. The poem tells me exactly what to look for, and the time of day. Does anybody else see that?

    • John, and others,
      At one point, I thought IMO that a particular time of day was involved in the search for the hidey space; however, after more “precisely” reviewing the clues, I no longer think so.
      “Have flashlight and gloves, will travel”

  7. It’s in the bank, the river bank that is. Somewhere rocky, maybe on top of shale rocks shape like a rainbow but buried (covered, hidden) under river rocks. At a safe distance from those months where the river is at its highest. Not under water but it gets wet when the snow melts. It will not be accidental, anybody can walk right by it and keep walking. But those knowing of the search will know, you can’t be 12 feet from it and not notice. The rock cover structure has a shape known to the searchers. Not an X, too obvious but maybe an F or a Y. IMO… good luck and if it helps send me a double eagle…

    • oz10,

      OK, i slightly disagree with this theory based on Forrest’s comment that no one will happen or stumble upon the chest and if someone was within 12 ft of the chest that it would be unlikely that they would not find it. If both of these statements are true then we must assume that there is not a physical blaze or marker that could or would attract unwanted attention. The blaze is in my opinion and this has been stated on this blog going back to 2014 that the blaze could be the trail of clues leading to the trove. You can disagree with me and that is OK, i don’t have the chest yet.

      • I don’t have the exact quote but if my memory is right he said “I can’t imagine a searcher being 12 feet away and not finding it” and that is why that is my theory. On the other hand, if the comment was anybody being within 12 ft can find it then I will take a few rocks from the top of the chest to expose the bronze and everything else stays the same.

        I read a poem (don’t remember from who) that related to the river rocks always been ‘cold to the touch’. So you will need to make some effort and take the rocks away from it to pick up. BTW, effort= ‘F’ fort. There…

          • The context of “get that close” might be referring to a searcher who solved enough clues to take him/her within twelve feet of the chest. Forrest seems confident that nobody will stumble on it, no matter how lost in the wood.

            In that case, the chest can be totally concealed and it’s the correct blaze that a searcher will notice. The real clue here might be about the simplicity of finding the chest once the blaze is identified.

        • I agree with Muset, if you take it within context: ‘I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it’ The second part of that answer was still referring to the searcher. Meaning if a searcher was within 12 feet it would have been found and we will not be having this discussion. He has stated multiple times that nobody will stumble upon it by accident. Why is he so confident of it? How remote/hidden/out of sight is this place?

        • Jake,

          It is possible you are correct but, it just does not seem logical to me that Forrest would leave a physical marker. Why even write a poem containing 9 cues for those daring enough to precisely follow and then leave a marker that some lucky tourist could accidentally stumble upon. This is just as ill-logical as looking under every Mr. Brown in the Rocky Mountains.

          Think, analyze and move with confidence.

          • L1, Think, analyze and move with confidence.
            Think: If I was Forrest, I would want the blaze to be a natural feature in the landscape that would last at least 1,000 years.
            Analyze: You want to think like him. If you do not, you have no chance.
            Move with Confidence: If you have any questions about your solve, that reveals more questions, then you may have to question your solve.

            I do not have any more questions for my solve.

          • Jake,

            The blaze is in the poem, so it much like a physical feature can and will last just as long. Line 13 of the poem is in the past tense, so in my opinion you confidentially know exactly where you are going, to the trove not the blaze.

          • I’m gonna buy that one L1,
            Why did Forrest pass on the Q about the blaze being there?
            I don’t have the exact quote but seems suspicious for him to pass on that Q.
            I have my own theory on what the blaze is & is still wet IMO.

            Yea, line 13, past tense. Let me get my horses in line.

          • This is exactly why a searcher has gotten within 200ft and didn’t know they had been so close, and precisely why Forrest thought they had solved 4 clues but wasn’t certain. Because said searcher was looking for a physical marker and didn’t understand what the blazes they were doing.

          • Sight seeing? Spallies…..
            Who knows, maybe they were watching the tree grow from the rich nutrients we have given them.
            Watch out for the Zasquitoes.
            I know the treasure is around here somewhere.

        • Did I dream this, or didn’t I read it in one of the scrapbooks, hear it in an interview, etc.: When questioned as to the destroy-ability of this ‘blaze’, FF answered with words to the effect that, “yes, it could be destroyed/obliterated [paraphrasing], but it would take a lot of work..”?

          • From The Nine Clues…Part Thirtyone / September 26, 2014) Forrest said:
            “While it’s not impossible to remove the blaze it isn’t feasible to try, and I am certain it’s still there”

          • Ugghh… You beat me Seeker….

            forrestfenn on September 26, 2014 at 4:06 pm said:
            I had an enjoyably visit with Tom and his brother at the Downtown Subscription Coffee Shop in Santa Fe. They seemed like nice guys and avid treasure hunters. But there is confusion somewhere. While it’s not impossible to remove the blaze it isn’t feasible to try, and I am certain it’s still there.

            And while I’m here I’d like to make some comments:

            I have never said that a searcher was within 2-feet of the treasure, or 6-feet, or 20.

            None of my bronze bells or jars are buried at San Lazaro Pueblo.

            The CE5 phrase on the treasure chest is of no value to searchers.

            Snow and freezing temperatures have already arrived to parts of the Rocky Mountains. If you plan to search this winter please be safe.

          • That we are, spallies… But I would love to seek and find… My quest to cease. 🙂

          • Hmm,

            Is it possible to remove WWWH, how about that canyon or maybe the creek and waters high?

            “it has become my nature to just smile and enjoy the small victory that comes with being quietly smug.” f

    • oz10,

      I believe the key is to question why is it that Forrest believes that is it unlikely for one who is within 12ft of the trove to not discover it. If you can answer that, then you are wise.

      • It is on a place where someone just walking the woods will not attempt to pass by because of some natural barrier. We know is not near a trail but if a hiker is just wondering out and about will choose the easiest path and away from the location. If by a big chance he was to cross the barrier and stomp by it then he may find it. That does not necessarily means that it is exposed. The hiker may just get curious on why is this pile of river rocks in this location.

        Now, if you have the right blaze you will walk exactly to the location. That is why he said that metal detectors will only work if you are right on the spot. F may have decided to cover it anyway just to protect it from possible fires, direct sunlight, drones searches… IMO

  8. My parents always told me I was their greatest treasure and they found me under a rock (at least that is what they told me when I was 3). I think that is a good place.

  9. “Tarry Scant with Marvel Gaze.” If i were to pick a place to sit and Die in the wild, wouldn’t it be great to sit in eternity in a place with a marvel gaze? The internal picture i get in my head is: Chest is sitting on the side of the hill, with a little elevation, off the beaten path a bit, but not to far. The view will be marvelous, awe inspiring, and somewhere that a view for eternity would never get old. There may be some fire damage still present – I am not implying that it has to be fire damage from the 80’s yellowstone fires. The chest will be the seat of a throne, with a back of a tree, or large rock.

    • Im with you on this theory. A throne facing east on top,of a steep canyon which is rich with lots of undiscovered history and artifacts and monuments that only the imagination can inturpit. Imagination is imo the key to the hidy spot which will lead you straight to the chest . So if your at the end of your trail and you sit and ponder what the blaze may be look around and play what does that cloud look like game ….tarry scantt… with the landscape …and when you start to notice whats around you and the lights in your head turn on a hole new world of an ancient unknown civilization will sudenly appear. ….marvel gaze…..this alone is a treasure in itself.

      • Of course, my imagination on what I think it should look like will probably end up letting me walk right past the real hiding spot.

  10. One of my many,many notes highlights a Newsweek statement by Forrest “They are in the dark, just like the treasure chest.” 🙂
    I don’t remember when this was said, maybe Dal can help.

      • “They’re in the dark,” he said, just like his treasure chest. But only for now.”

        Which one is ‘temporarily’ in the dark? Can we think of ways that the chest might go from being in the dark to out of the dark?
        Was this stated at late evening time?
        Will the chest rise from the darkness of the depths of waters after something in its materials changes with time?
        Will a glacier recede far enough to let the searcher see it? Ugh.

        Ridiculous ideas perhaps but you all can do better if interested.

        • This is the exact quote: ““They’re in the dark,” he said, just like his treasure chest. But only for now.”

          Notice that only the first part of the sentence is a quote from Mr. Fenn. The last half of the sentence is conjecture by the writer. and the “they” being spoken of, are the bits and pieces of Indian artifacts that the author picked up – not people, that had been reburied. The second sentence is for emphasis.

          Be careful out there.

    • I enjoyed that old article..

      But to be clear, the author added the part about the chest:

      ‘ “They’re in the dark,” he said, just like his treasure chest. ‘

      • Correct Muset. Forrest did not say the treasure chest was in the dark. It seems to me the phrase ” just like his treasure chest” was an editorial comment made by Tony Dokoupil and besides, Tony did not put that phrase in the quote marks when he quoted Forrest.

    • Beware of the bears. Although they are mostly afraid of humans, when startled with their young they can be agressive.


    • The hiddey spot has a couple of keys and passages that must be found before you can understand the Blaze in its true nature…


  11. Muset,

    Yes you are correct i too have a hard time archiving things that i know not to come from Forrest directly or things that are paraphrased. A good article otherwise.

  12. the hidey space … in my opinion, it’s inside a hollow log, covered with brush or behind rocks, and up against a vertical wall.

  13. Not Obsessed, On the previous “Hidey Space” page, you asked: did I “tap” the rock? I felt the rock, & I kind-of scratched it with my fingernail, to be sure it was a rock. You are correct: it really does look man-made. And what’s really weird: it seemed to have the correct dimensions. However, it’s really a rock – a cube shaped rock.

  14. My first crazy hunch about the treasure location was that it was placed inside the oriface of a particular geyser in YNP. I found some old pictures of men standing on the cone of this geyser and dangling a line in to test depth. I abandoned the idea quickly, but it still nags at me a little. If I spent enough time in YNP as a kid I don’t know if I could have resisted taking a peek?

  15. IMO… I’m in the Zaphod boat with this thread. I do believe the TC is in the open. IMO, I may have walked right by it. I was too focused on looking for something else at the time. I came back with a search memento though. Sad, but true.

  16. Searcher Steve, I don’t know if you have read my solve, “Others Adventure” “A Redneck From Texas….” but the rock ledge above the bush that I hoped to be the hiding place would be a perfect place to sit back and enjoy the View of Firehole Falls (my water high) for an hour or for eternity. IMO of course.

  17. Jake; Searcher Steve:

    You’re getting very close. When I suggested the TC was in the “open”, as Jake commented, it is vulnerable to the elements, hence my comment about dirt, grasses and patina but protected enough to be safe and secure for decades but clearly visible. Remember, it’s a certain resting place for F’s bones. Like Steve’s comment, a magnificent place with a view where “I would see mountains, forests, animals, etc. etc.”. And from seeing the blaze, “Look Quickly Down”. How far that might be is speculation. But I believe this is a very special, reverent location found by F many years ago. All of course, in my very humble opinion.

    • I think Forrest used the word “exposed”.
      This can be tricky.
      Everything is exposed to something.
      Exposed to air, water, sun light, dirt, rocks.
      It could be in the open, but I don’t think so.
      Although you make a good point Skip, if in the open would eventually get covered anyway in time.

      Why would you have to look QUICKLY down?
      Why can’t I look slowly down? Will I not find it if I don’t follow the instructions precisely?
      He didn’t have to put any word in between look & down, but he did, for a reason.
      In my quick opinion.

        • Litterate One- look quickly down is three words that mean something else….not homophoneious but synonophones- “see rapids below”

          • ” Ask yourself what does it mean to “look quickly down”, not why must I look quickly down. ”

            I only look quickly down if my rational fear of heights kicks in. I’d rather not look down because its uncomfortable.

            Anybody know if Forrest doesn’t like heights?

          • I don’t think FF wants us to literally look quickly down. I think we need to find a word that means “look quickly down” and then look at the other meanings of that word. I think I know the word and the alternate meaning it has.

          • Searcher Steve,

            Puzzled is learning to fish, and is on the write track. Throughout the poem it is wise to look for other meanings of words, otherwise known as synonyms, sometimes we must also research idioms. Forrest ever the teacher and wordsmith uses his knowlege and poetic liberalism (that will upset ff) to conceal his interpretation in plain sight.



            i looked up the meaning of words. you know we really don’t know what some of our words mean. for instance what does the word several mean? s-e-v-e-r-a-l … what does that mean?


            no. it means more than two, but not many more than two. isn’t that a way to define a word? more than two, but not many

            so, i doubt that anyone in this room knows that. i mean, i wouldn’t know it except i’m a writer and sometimes i look things up. and there are lots of words in the english language that we can’t define and consequently we use them erroneously.


            “Fish on!”

          • Now wait aminute. You’ve got me turned around. Explain another way or again please.

          • My plea or below as to Patty Lane. synonophones. Help from any or all will be accepted. I thought look quickly down Might mean to use a Metal Detector.

          • Musstag- It is my very firm opinion that the solve can be found by using outside resources to understand the words and phrases in the poem. I believe dictionaries or thesaurus (the word “treasure” comes from the word thesaurus) and other sources can help us determine the root of words, the ancient and less common definitions, synonyms, metaphors, etc. I believe there is a method to this madness. If we can document our reasoning with a source that proves an ancient word meaning or other information about the words, then we will solve this poem. There should be no guessing. For example (not intended to put down you idea-just trying to illustrate), there is no definition anywhere that suggests a metal detector is implied in”look quickly down”. It is creative. But I really feel that all the words and phrases can be researched and we can come to learn more about the lesser known ideas related to the words FF used. Each step should involve research with no guessing. I hope I have helped.

          • Musstag,

            We could give you the answer but then you learn nothing from it, you’ll take it for granted and then leave it in the rain to rust away. You must earn it.

            “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for life”

            Forrest is teaching us all to fish, and to grab every banana. We should aspire to the same.

        • To me, it means to “look (under cold water, hold your breath which you cannot take your time to do. It must be done quickly) down”
          Which brings me to the next line in the poem.
          But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
          (Don’t wait around, your cold & wet, get out of there quickly! Or you may become hypothermic.)
          Well, that’s one of my crazy ideas.

          So what does it mean to you or anyone else L1?

          • Jake,

            I believe that line could have an opposing meaning for one who believed the blaze was a physical marker at the end and one who did not.

            We different ideas and that is OK. I would rather see you come to the conclusion that I have on your own because then it would be your idea and not one that someone else implanted.

            Jake you and I, I believe may be in the same region. I would enjoy meeting you and talking over a beer or coffee some time.

          • L1,
            Are you saying that the blaze is not physical?
            Existing in a form that you cannot touch or see?
            I keep my mind open for everything, but can’t think of everything.

            It’s good that people have different ideas, it’s what makes us unique.
            I cannot come to the same conclusion as you or others at times without being inside there heads unless they share there thoughts as most do here.

            I hope to be in Montana on Flag Day smelling a hint of cinnamon. If we are in the same region, the first beverage is on me & I enjoy your cerebral interaction.

          • oz10,

            Sure, but i believe Jake’s question was why was quickly inserted in the line. I then asked Jake to not question why, but to question what does “look quickly down” mean. I don’t want to impose my theory on what it means to me as i would rather one come to their own conclusion.

            “Give a man a fish…….”

          • “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.”

            I think Forrest is trying to teach all of us how to fish & enjoy the environment along the way. Even the little girl from India, unfortunately, she just can’t cast that far, but can still enjoy the experience.

          • oz10,

            “BELIEVE” I know it sounds like a cat poster but its true!

            All our theories hang by a thread my friend. I did see your post and all i can say is I’m speechless.

          • Lots & lots of threads to hang from.
            I see a big ball of tangled threads rolling down the hill.
            It will come to rest where the treasure is.

        • Reading some of these comments gave a new line of thought: off the wall, but what about a barricade at the end of a trail or road. It could definitely be a marker or blaze, and it could be on the edge of a drop off where you could look quickly down. “Look Out Point” “Scenic Overlook” “Danger” etc. signs. Most people look out and not down. Open for comments or thoughts. IMO

        • Quick = fast
          Quick = hold tightly, ie: quicksand
          Quick = bone, ie: cut to the quick
          Quick = sharp angle, ie: quick corner in the road – turn quick

          With Mr. Fenn’s known propensity to blur the lines concerning the definition or use of words, one cannot ignore any of the meanings of the word quick – or quickly.

  18. LiterateOne

    I too have a very unique interpretation of what “Look quickly down” means.

    It was my KEY to solving the final clue. I will know saturday if my interpretation
    is correct or not.

    I will share later

    Good luck to all in their searches, and STAY SAFE


  19. Hello Litterate One,

    You said to Jake: The blaze is in the poem, so it much like a physical feature can and will last just as long. Line 13 of the poem is in the past tense, so in my opinion you confidentially know exactly where you are going, to the trove not the blaze.

    I agree 100% with YO…. “you confidently know exactly where you are going, to the trove and not the blaze.”

    I personally did not find the blaze in the poem, but somewhere else.

    Happy Hunting

        • LitterateOne, don’t forget to add a generous dose of common to that sense.

          So according to ff the poem is straight forward, written in order, contiguous that moves one closer to the TC with each correct solution, ff wrote it and the Thrill with such profundity? So why would he say following “heavy loads, and water high” which IMO could and probably is man made, would the blaze necessarily require you to be wise? For that matter even be an object in nature, ie some natural formation?

          Which means it could be man made could it not?


          Tom T

          • Uncommon sense #12,

            “So why would he say following “heavy loads, and water high” which IMO could and probably is man made.”
            That’s a good valid question.
            I don’t see the connection to it being man made although the poem is.
            Just my common sense.

          • Tom Terrific,

            Yes thanks for the common sense addition, it is a forgotten virtue. I believe you and I may disagree on “heavy loads and water high” and that is OK. I do believe however, that one must have been wise to get from the correct WWWH to water high and in doing so has found the true trail. I do not believe any part of the poem to be man made outside of the chest and it’s contents.

          • In my humble opinion;

            Heavy Loads is man made, but not in the sense that most people perceive it.

            Water high is not man made. IMHO

            Only time will tell.

            Good luck to all searchers
            and STAY SAFE


          • I don’t think any of the clues are manmade. Wondering if anyone else has discovered as they study word definitions, that at least 3 words in the poem have an alternate definition which names a geological feature (3 different distinct geological features). And, at least 3 words have an alternate definition that references time.

  20. Oh one more thought, has anyone ever asked if some of his clues require another language to understand and interpret their actual (location) geographic meaning? Like French, Spanish, Native American tongue etc? A word that comes to mind might be a river’s name that is in a canyon, do I need say down?

    Tom T

    • Hello Tom Terrific. If I remember correctly, I believe you may have brought this subject up before. Did you get a response to this question from Mr. Fenn?

      • pdenver, no not even a Le Peep nor una susurro o secreto, que hizo el¿ Nada decir el
        señor Forrest. If ff tells us the answer to this it may be a very very faint whisper.

        Tom T

        • Allô Tom. Peut-être que vous pourriez lui demander en français. Non, il est à nous de decider. Il est le frisson de la chasse, après tout. 🙂

          • Hello Tom . Perhaps you could ask him in French. No, it is for us to decide . It is the thrill of the hunt , after all.

            Nous pouvons demander ff de l’aide et des conseils , car il a créé le Thrill et lui aussi aime la chasse

            Tom T

          • F “Allô” W… Or double “u” which is right after double “t” for Tom Terrific… I think he is saying Hi to you Tom!

      • The main reason I think ff has included the description of man made objects in his poem clues is because almost every object he reveries, except that mammoth dig, is a man made something, ie arrowheads, pottery, poetry, fishing flies, paintings, books, peace pipes, etc, so why must we believe the heavy loads and water high, or even the blaze are or “must be” a natural phenomena, shucks, ff says that most of the clues he describes were here when he was a kid right? I hold the opinion, that so were many if not most of his treasures were as well, he just had not discovered/acquired them yet.

        Meaning those clues were only awaiting his description of the 9 objects, obviously some natural, as a canyon is natural and down means nothing unless it means south too because all canyons go down somewhere right? However saying all clues MUST be natural is tantamount to saying all cats are animals, therefore all animals are cats, that’s crazy, so all cats have 9 lives, then all 9 clues are therefore natural, correct? That too is crazy.

        So clues do not necessarily have to be natural, just geographic locations, such may be the case for the blaze and heavy loads and water high. So what this says to me is that the Hidey spot is an actual place, and probably natural but not all clues are…..natural.

        Does anyone believe go in peace to be about something natural?

        Does anyone doubt that brave and in the wood is anything if it is not natural?

        I believe there is a difference which is distinct in each clue, it does not just jump off the page when you read it, no, it whispers.

        Tom T

        • “Does anyone believe go in peace to be about something natural?”
          -No & I don’t see this as a clue.

          “Does anyone doubt that brave and in the wood is anything if it is not natural?”
          -Wood is natural & don’t see this as a clue.

          I do see one of the 9 clues being man made.

          • That is one way to see it. Another way will be like a ‘dead end’, it could be both man made by design (like a border line) or natural like a river that marks the border between 2 states.

          • Hiking trails usually dead end (if not loops) for one of two reasons, a natural barrier (cliff, water, steep incline) or because is at the end or close to the end of the Park’s land jurisdiction.

            Fenns’ comment on ‘there is no human trail’ in close proximity is interesting to me. I have a feeling (just mine) that to get to the hidey space you have to stray off a trail somewhere, yes maybe close to the end of it depending on how you read the poem, and then walk out there. This is of interest because I used to do that all the time when I was a curious kid around the rivers and hills, you have to if you want to find the perfect hiding location or a place never seen before.

            As an adult hardly ever. When I take my kids fishing we stay on the trails and they are instructed to use the trails if something were to happen to me. I am sure this is one of the reasons why so many search those areas of Fs’ childhood around Yellowstone.

          • Yes, I agree Oz,
            It would only make sense to me if you get off the trail & follow the creek up until you cannot go any further.

            I think Forrest said something like:
            “Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximity to where I hid the treasure.f ”

            I believe the trail is roughly 200′ away from my creek.

          • Yes, you know 200 feet is not a bad walk at all. If you find it there all those who where within the ‘200 are going to be very sad.

            As long as that is where your blaze is taking you, you are in the right place. But don’t listen to me…

          • Well, you can’t actually get the treasure from being 200′ away on the trail. The treasure is in a canyon & the trail is above. So, I will have to get off the trail before the creek turns into a canyon. Work my way into the canyon until I cannot go any further. The walking distance is just under 2 miles from where you park your vehicle to where I think it is. I will have waders & hopefully most of the spring runoff is done, because you may not be able to get in there during high runoff. So the chest is protected by ice & snow in the winter & high water during spring. So I hope my timing is right. All my opinion.

          • I am sure you are not forgetting the rule about ‘don’t go where an 80 year old can’t go’ and I don’t think he meant by parachute…

          • I knew you were gonna say that.
            The human trail is in descent shape as long as it isn’t too wet. I will stay on the trail for about a mile & a half, then get in the creek bed which if the water flow is low, it should not be much of a challenge, just gravel & some larger rocks here & there to avoid. This part of the trek is only about 1500′. The total elevation climb is only about 350′ spread out under 2 miles. Yes, I think he hid it here in the summer in dry conditions. It’s quite doable for that 80 year old man, making 2 trips in an afternoon.

          • There are a couple of things Forrest said that makes me doubt my solve.

            “If I were standing where the treasure chest is, I’d see trees, I’d see MOUNTAINS, I’d see animals, I’d smell wonderful smells of pine needles or pinion nuts, SAGEBRUSH, and I know the treasure chest is wet.”

            I would not see mountains because I’m in a small canyon, unless you consider the walls part of a mountain. I don’t think I would smell Sagebrush because there is no sagebrush in this confined area that I know of.

            Although he also said:
            “That video didn’t have any clues.”

  21. I wanted to share that THE SANTA FE INTERVIEWS hold much promise as to how the TC is disguised and hidden in plain site. Somewhere…..Forrest on Video talking about a lost Spanish Manuscript….and how it was maybe hidden. On the same video I believe it is where he is running his hand thru small piles of ancient pottery shards…..talking about all the shards at Abiquiu. I just had those thoughts,
    flash back if you will about the description of how the manuscript may have been hidden. hidden.

  22. I am sure that the “Hidey Space” is in the water, behind a “Tarry Scant”.

    I will know today if I am right or wrong.

    I have my Humble Pie baking in the oven right now, but do not think that
    it will be eaten by me. We shall see.

    All said is IMO, of course

    Good luck to all searchers, and STAY SAFE


  23. JD – today! This is exciting. This will be the first time I can follow someone through the blog as they head out since I am NTTC.

    Good luck and be safe.

  24. Here’s a great article exploring the idea of the “elevation” that sage brush grow in. Also Pinyon Pines. This might give some insight on the areas to search; rather than a forest which is heavily wooded. Forrest also said he drove his car and parked and walked: no human trails. Does this mean it is not in a National Park or Forrest? as he would have had to walk some trail to the end? I cannot quote; but he also said in a video; he sought out an attorney’s advice; and the Gold is yours to keep. With this in mind; I would sway away from a National Park or National Forest and Indian Lands; What is left? A creek in a Canyon with a great view of Sage Brush and Pine Scent. JMHO. http://www.westernexplorers.us/PinyonPine.pdf “They generally lie between
    4500 to 6500 feet (1370 to 2000 m) in
    elevation, above the deserts, grasslands and
    sagebrush, and below mountain forests, into
    which they merge.” Here the article says Pinyons are found above sage brush; which tells us the elevation of Sage Brush. .

    • Debi,
      “no human trails”
      I hope this will help.
      “There isn’t a human trail in very close proximity to where I hid the treasure.f ”
      Please note there are many trails in National Parks & Forests.
      Thanks Debi,
      I can smell the Sage now.

    • I have studied the elevation of Pinyons and the locations where they grow. The only problem is that FF actually said he smelled pine OR pinyin nuts. So it’s possible there were no Pinyons. But it’s also possible there were Pinyons. This clue does not help at all. But, there was something in his response that he wished he hadn’t said. What else could he be referring to?

      • What about sage and the elevation it thrives. You have to take this in text with all the other statements I shared.

      • I’ve thought about this statement and have read that there was probably things said during the interview that weren’t put in the video and that maybe he was referring to something said then.. I don’t know if this is fact though. IMO I think that he was referring to when he said ‘if he was standing where the chest is’, he didn’t say ‘if I was standing by the chest or near the chest or next to the chest’. So I think that was another way of saying that it is buried/hidden and IMO not in a river and not in a tree and not in plain sight or behind a tree or in a cave. I guess that eliminates a lot of places. Sweet 😉

    • Hi Debi, Puzzled and alopes – FYI, pinon nuts have no discernable smell to the normal human nose. The pinecones the nuts are in and tree they come from, yes. But it’s an odd thing to say “…I’d smell pinon nuts…” So that makes me wonder if ff realized he’d mis-spoke and that’s what he wished he hadn’t said because maybe he let a tell slip by, meaning pinon trees are near the TC. With very few exceptions, pinons only grow in northern NM and southern CO, and in elevations b/t about 4000 (farther north) and 8000 (farther south, like around SFe).

      alopes’ thought about the “if he was standing where the chest is” is a good, too. Truth is, that whole vid was edited, so who knows what he was referring to. All I know is that pinon nuts don’t have a smell.

      • From Feb 2015 SFeNM:
        Fenn states in the video that if he were standing near the treasure, “I’d smell wonderful smells, of pine needles or piñon nuts or sagebrush.” But in an interview with The New Mexican, Fenn said, “That video didn’t have any clues. It might influence some people to come to New Mexico, but I don’t want to give the impression that I am giving that as a clue because I am not.” And he said he erred in mentioning piñon nuts. He really meant pine needles.

        OK then, seems just generic pines and sage brush. Where do those 2 things overlap? Doesn’t help much. Sorry.

      • Melanie- That is very interesting that Pinyon nuts don’t have a smell. I didn’t know that. And thanks for sharing the follow up video which I had not seen or heard of. Good info.

        • Well, if you toast and crush pinon nuts they have a wonderful smell and taste even better, but you wouldn’t get that sense just walking around in the outdoors.

          Think of it..cashews, peanuts, filberts, whatever. Nuts don’t really have a smell in their naked state.

          Personally, in that video snippet, I think ff got caught up in reflecting upon an idyl of a beautiful day spent in the Rocky Mountains. Maybe he was munching on roasted pinon nuts in the golden glow of an autumn afternoon….makes total sense to me.

      • Hi, Melanie. I didn’t know that pinon nuts did not have a discernible odor. That’s a fun fact for me ;). That could be what he meant to not say, and if I remember correctly, he retracted that statement later. One guess is as good as the other.

        • Maybe my nose is more sensitive than others. Piñon (pine nuts) definitely has a scent. I grew up in Taos and every time someone has piñon sitting in a bowl, I can smell it. I wonder if any of us have smelled moisture in the air. If so, then I would say water has a scent as well. When you smell air freshener called ocean breeze, are they trying to mimic the scent of water, salt, fish, or any combination of the three? Now that’s a little to think about, right f?

          • Yes, you are correct – when you’ve got a bunch of pinon in a bowl, it will surely have a scent. I meant if you, like ff, were walking around in the open wilderness of a pinon/juniper/ponderosa forest (which I do every day) you’d get no distinctive smell of the pinon nut. I get the pine smell of the pinon and ponderosas, the slight vanilla scent of the ponderosa bark, the resiny smell of the junipers and even the salty smell of their pollen. But I never smell the nuts of the pinon in the wild, even if I crush a pinecone underfoot.

            And after a rain, like this morning, even the dirt gives off a delicious aroma!

  25. It’s in an elevation of Sage: below the Pinyon Trees and Wooded Forests. Of course he can smell the pines; But Sage is an important clue for the elevation of the creek in a Canyon.

  26. Well, we are back from looking in our “Hidey Space.” Regretfully, the
    ice was still too thick, could not lopok in the exact spot that I feel the treasure is hidden..

    We will return in two weeks. Hope all of the ice melts by then.

    Has a GREAT adventure though.


    • Glad your trip was safe. It’s encouraging that after being near to your treasure spot, you still feel it’s the right spot!. Hope you find it in two weeks. Anxiously waiting to hear how it goes in two weeks

    • I’m sorry it didn’t go so well for you squirt (JD). Better luck next time. Among a few other bloggers, I am really rooting for you to find the treasure. That is something I like about this chase and this blog. We are all searching for one thing and we all want to be the one to find it, but at the same time we all sincerely wish the next searcher the absolute best. That is a thrill in itself. We ALL deserve a little treasure in our lives. I think whoever finds this chest should host Fennboree. Everybody in this chase wants to see it at least once. I think it would be cool to see it.
      Well, better luck next time sir. Travel safely.

  27. Pondering over the line “Begin it where warm water halts” I’ve come to the conclusion that because there are so many places in which we can presume would be a fit for this line, that Forrest is specifying a place that is unique in its’ water component. To which I would offer, a place in which he would be knowledgeable based on his own experiences.

    Forrest was a pilot. He attended flight school and likely survival school as well. He would have trained in water survival (survival at sea). He has always said that we would find our answers in his TTOTC. Thus, we have the story of his combat flights (Air Force).

    Now what is it that he would have knowledge of? The difference in the temperature of fresh and salt water. Fresh water feels colder than sea water at the same temperature. Since we’re not searching for the treasure at sea, the conditions would have to be available on land.

    Desalination plants located along rivers which ‘halt’ warm water, de-salt (desalinate) it and then let it resume along its’ way.

    This satisfies our need to quantify both the ‘warm’ and ‘halt’ issues. But, this is after all, only my opinion.

    • Hello germanguy. Thank you for your post. I’ve enjoyed what you had to say and it’s something to consider. It’s been quite some time since I’ve seen you comment.

    • germanguy- Thank you for your comments. They were interesting to me because of some info I have learned in the last week. You mention salt water. Did you know that the letters in “waters halt” can be rearranged (its an anagram) to create the word “saltwater”. Is this just coincidence? Or does this tie to your comment about salt water being colder than fresh water at the same temperature. Could this anagram really be a coincidence? It seems like a huge hint!

      I had never heard of the Great Divide Basin and when I read about it, I was fascinated. It is a basin that sits right on the continental divide. There are several interesting things about it. For one thing, the basin receives almost no rain at all. What little rain it does get, never flows outside the basin. It is a

      Wikipedia says the following about the Great Divide Basin
      “The Great Divide Basin or Great Divide Closed Basin is an area of land in Wyoming’s Red Desert (United States) where none of the water falling as rain to the ground drains into any ocean, directly or indirectly. It is therefore considered an endorheic basin, and it adjoins the Continental Divide in southern Wyoming.”

      What little rain falls here runs into the basin to form an ephemeral lake that then drys out leaving some SALT. Over countless years, it has left a dry SALT lake bed.

      It seems that this basin could be a place that “warm waters halt” as the rain that falls here never leaves the basin except through evaporation.

      This basin is very remote and much of it is undiscovered. You have to get a permit to enter the basin. There are many unique land features in the basin. Parts of it are stunningly beautiful!
      There are native American ruins, petroglyphs, fossils, and unique land formations.

      I also read somewhere that there is a place in this basin where the largest trout have been caught.

      I’ve kind of been looking at this basin. I’m fascinated by it and think it would be a very fun place to explore.

      So anyway; your comments about salt are quite interesting if you consider that “waters halt” could have the letters rearranged and become “saltwater”. Something to look into for sure!

      • Hi Puzzled, I have been there to the basin and sis explore all over and it is a fabulous place, but a word of warning, you definitely will need a 4 wheel drive vehicle that sits up a ways. Not many people go out there. Make sure to have a gps device with you as well because the “roads” aren’t marked very well and some not at all. But you will see things like no where else and many animals. Oh, and one last thing, there is no “h” in salt water and there is in waters halt. Good luck to you.

      • puzzled wrote;
        “For one thing, the basin [Red Desert in Wyoming] receives almost no rain at all.”
        So then we would not expect the TC to get “wet”, as FF apparently said it did.

        If the TC is in some canyon where water would get the chest “wet”, then how would FF be able to see the mountains, down in some hole?

        In other words, it’s gonna be tough finding a place in the Red Desert where you have a TC that’s both “wet” and with good views of mountains.


        • Ken- There are wet areas in the basin. It’s also possible that it was raining on the day FF said the TC was wet. Doesn’t mean it is wet all the time. That hint could be a red herring. I don’t think that hint is very reliable.

          • But I can’t wonder if Forrest is doing the interview in Santa Fe that he sounded sure it’s wet! To me IMO that it sounds like he knows it’s wet like all time time!

            If you leave something out in the woods that if it rains its will GET wet but to be sure it’s wet right this second with no rain it sounds like it’s in a water source IMO

  28. Thanks to all of the well-wishers. The trip was great. nine of us in total. Truly a Family affair…all getting out into the wilderness. WHAT FUN WE HAD.

    Good luck to all searchers, and STAY SAFE


    • JD – My son and I went through part of ID last month. Never been there before. After we left the mountains, we saw areas that had wheat fields much like KS. It was a nice drive and I would like to go back some day to enjoy the scenery a bit more.

    • I’m in Texas JD so u r a lot closer than I am. So it’s still icy n snowy there, huh. Here it’s spring and beautiful and warm. Stay safe and good luck.

  29. Yes, it is a very pretty state. When the wheat fields are ready for harvest, they are spectacular to see. We have more “White Water” than any other state.

    Our mountains are some of the most beautiful. Sorry Idaho is no longer on the “search” list.

    Glad you enjoyed your trip – Come again!


  30. great answers everyone..IMO the TC is not hidden in a creek, river, cave, or behind a waterfall (I like that idea), but in the woods..It is not completely buried but at least one third buried so it does not move by the weather or animal..This is why you maybe need to wear gloves because you will get dirty digging it out..The Blaze is simple to me..Yes you can be in the general area of the TC but if you do not know what the blaze is you will walk right by it..That is why some have walked right by because they could not see the blaze and why because they where not wise..no paddle up your creek
    does not have to be a creek..

    • … “in the woods” ?

      But surely there must be some variation in the topography to differentiate the TC place from some other place six feet away, or a quarter mile away.

      Simply saying it’s “in the woods” sounds like a place with uniform topography, vegetation, and views. Why that particular one-foot square spot? Why not six feet to the left or ten feet to the right, or a quarter mile deeper “in the woods”. What’s the appeal of such a nondescript spot?


  31. Ken, IMO the TC could be in large area but small area…the place I like is where standing you can see the beautiful mountain peaks, smell of pine needles, animals, sagebrush, and water

  32. Its in a big ol patch of stinging nettle. Hence the need for gloves. and you’ll need lots of ice to keep the swelling down. IMO of course 😉

  33. I hate to give too much away, but what the heck. I believe its elevated above the meadow floor, under the ground vegetation with the ” ” flower. You may also have to slip through “something” before you can get to that area, but you can see it from above when you look down, after seeing this “specific pattern” in the cliffs across the canyon. (Hope this helps a good person.)

  34. This is all IMO: I believe the treasure chest is in a hole in a rock outcropping that has petroglyphs on the rocks “Is the blaze one single object?” “In a word–yes”. pEtroglYphS. This rock-outcropping is along the side of a canyon 200 ft from the trail as you walk back a trail through the canyon. “People have been within 200 feet of the treasure.” “There’s no human trail in very close proximity”. The canyon may or may not be wide. But you have to look to the side of the trail “What if I was looking so far ahead that I neglected to notice what was beside me.” There are sage brush along the canyon floor, and pine trees and piñon trees on the canyon sides, some growing in amongst the rocks in the rock-outcropping. There is a nice little area that is slightly elevated from the canyon floor, not steep to get to. There’s a beautiful tree or trees where a person’s body could nestle in and not be seen by anyone hiking the trail which is 200 feet away. From this spot you can still see and smell the sage brush, as well as the pine needles because you are sitting beneath a pine/juniper tree/trees. “It (the treasure) is not in a tree but surrounded by trees.” “I will rest through time and space, pillowed down and scented in”. “I would rather go into the silent mountains on a warm sunny day, sit under a tree where the air is fresh and the smell of nature is all around, and let my body slowly decay into the soil.” I found this exact area in La Jara Canyon off of FR5 off of the southern stretch of The Enchanted Circle. I searched this rock-outcropping so many times, it was ridiculous. Oh, there were no petroglyphs on this particular rock-outcropping…so now I’m searching for the same kind of place…with petroglyphs. With WWWH and hoB all close by.

    • Cmeachum- I suspect you are correct abt petroglyphs being involved. Isn’t it possible that “ever drawing” could be a petroglyph (a drawing that has endured time)? I think the narrow opening is a slot canyon. I’m curious what your HOB is.

      • Puzzled, I love your idea that “ever drawing” is petroglyphs. My hoB changes with the area I go to. The poem is so generic we can massage the clues to fit many places. In the post above, my hoB was the Taos Pueblo. The entire area along Hwy 64 starting at Palo Flechado Pass and “taking it in the canyon down (Taos Canyon) and side canyons fits the clues so well, as well as so many of his extra “hints”. I spent almost a year searching that entire area with a fine tooth comb. Then I just had to accept the fact the treasure isn’t hidden in that area, so I moved on. But it doesn’t mean it’s not there…I may not have looked “AT” it, only near it. If someone finds Fenn’s treasure chest there, I’ll probably jump off that rock outcropping and kill myself…NO, I won’t, just kidding. I actually wish all the BOTG searchers the best of luck in hoping someone finds it in their search area, regardless where or what state it’s at.

        • Cmeacum- interesting that you have searched the Taos area. I haven’t done a ground search yet because I’m convinced that a person will be able to work out the poem and be certain before going to the treasure. I have spent many many hours considering the,Taos area. I actually have several areas that I am working on (researching). Another one is not in NM but has direct ties to Taos. Wow! A whole year searching there? Your are dedicated.

        • Cynthia,
          Where I come from,you can lift parts of basalt up and put it right back in,perfectly to fit. 🙂
          You could be standing right on top of it and not know it.
          I agree with petroglyphs as the blaze. You won’t be able to see it unless you are in the right place. ” I see “animals” and smell pine needles,sage.” 🙂
          This is all my opinion .

    • Cynthia – that sure seems possible and fits well with those ff quotes. And Puzzled’s idea of the “ever drawing” is a good fit, too. Maybe the glyph is on the left/nigh wall of the canyon?

    • Hello Lia. Thank you for posting this link. I’ve viewed it several times last night because I thought it was so interesting to learn about the area. I had no idea. My family and I have driven by the area numerous times heading to Yellowstone and I never knew. I thought of it as a “vast area of nothing.” Boy, was I wrong. I would love to find a Clovis point. The green one she held in her hand is beautiful.

    • Thanks Lia,
      I’ve worked a solution from this WWWH location for some time now. I just haven’t had anything “confirm” I’m on the right path.

      • Arca,

        Go back to the poem, start at the beginning, if you haven’t gotten the first clue nailed down you might as well stay home and play canasta. Once you have the first clue figuring out WWWH will become easier.

          • Will,

            As Forrest has said,

            “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe.”

            There is an entire stanza before “Begin it where warm waters halt,” to ignore the information in it is just expensive folly.

  35. ……….the end is ever “drawing nigh”…..IMO…..”drawing nigh” confirms that there is some type of pictograph or petroglyph near or nigh. It may well be that this is also THE BLAZE!!!! If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, Look quickly down, your quest to cease.

    Question to all…..are there many known petroglyphs on the Rio Chama. The Rio Ojo Caliente halts at the Rio Chama ??? This seems like WWWH.

    As it relates to wet or dry……All land is either public or private…you have National Forrest, Indian Land, National Parks, State Parks, National Monuments.

    On “Navigable Rivers” the Federal Government has passed laws (first laws passed by the Continental Congress) anywhere between the waters edge and the “High Water Mark” is considered PUBLIC on Navigable Rivers. Imagine floating down the Rio Chama and seeing a petroglyph…..you are moving fast in a kayak….once you see the glyph……looking quickly down in the water.

    Also IMO the home of Brown may well be CHRIST IN THE DESERT MONASTERY…..on the RIO CHAMA. Above here there is HEAVY LOADS and WATER HIGH (El Vado Dam)

    Now get this……The Monks make beer….How bout a “Six Pack” of ABBY BEER after you find the TC.

    • Guy Michael, You asked if there are known petroglyphs along the Rio Chama, and you mentioned Christ in the Desert Monastery as being hoB. That’s where the Fennboree was held last year…in a campground along the river about a mile from the Monastery. Anyway, I hope Desertphile sees your comment. He lives near there and has searched the Rio Chama / Canyon thoroughly. Other searchers have too but I can’t remember their names. He might know of petroglyphs. I think he has his own website which you might be able to find if you google Desertphile. The beer the monks make is called Monk Ale, I believe. You can’t buy it at the Monastery anymore but you can buy it at Bode’s store in Abiquiu. cynthia

    • Yes, but they can’t sell it on site.I had to buy it from a gas station on the main hwy. They had a small shrine west down the road, called the burning Bush as I recall

  36. Hey guys, glad you liked the Great Basin video. Those tiger striped, and green chert Clovis points were amazing. By the way Guy Michael, I love your monks and beer = six pack! Someone yesterday posted info on ‘ab-ductive’ reasoning which is also clever with respect to the six pack.

    I’m not following the blogs much these days, only a couple of threads. Hope I’m not missing too much. Best to all this search season.

  37. I think caves – or recesses in rock faces – or interesting rock formations with holes in them…. might seem like logical hiding places, but those are just the kind of place every curious kid (or adult) is going to explore.
    Someone knowing nothing about the poem or FF could well stumble upon the chest if it were hidden in a cave – just because they would be drawn to the cave. Forest said finding the chest would take following the clues….and would not be found by accident – so I believe the chest is hidden in a less dramatic place…..say at the base of a thick juniper tree – where there are many thick juniper trees. Finding the “blaze” directs you to the right tree…..which would otherwise not draw your attention to it.

  38. Where “warm” waters halt; or where “warm waters” halt have two different meanings. FF might not be talking about “warm” – but a cliche for “warm waters.”
    And of course he uses Thesaurus to mingle in other meanings. This is for us to figure out what the true meaning of WWWH. JMHO

    • debi,

      Yes to think that where those slow shallow meandering waters turn to white waters as they “take it” in the canyon down, is a possibility.

      • The slow meandering water is a creek and at some point turns to white waters like you suggest. At this junction: “there will be no paddle up your creek.”

    • Debi,

      I said it was a possibility, I believe if you have the first clue nailed down then WWWH will become more evident.

      “They do not know that it is the chase, and not the quarry, which they seek.” Blaise Pascal.

      “It’s the Thrill of the Chase, it’s the thrill in doing it yourself” Forrest Fenn.

  39. Carolyn;

    Have been reading old posts. You asked, “JD, I have 2 questions. Are you waiting for a map in the mail? And what is “tarry scant” mean that you are using as a noun?

    No, I am not waiting for a map in the mail, I am waiting for ice to melt.

    Question #2: Tarry = Blackish – like tar
    Scant = a slab of stone (usually sawn on two sides) but could be like a flagstone.

    Look on page 95 of TTOTC, Forrest is holding a “Marker” that could be called a “Tarry scant”

    Hope this helps.

    Good luck in your search – STAY SAFE


    • Thank you JD for your answers. Can’t wait to hear about your trip after the ice melts. I saw the picture you were referring to and that was an interesting way to see it. I saw a grave marker, but didn’t know that definition of scant. Stay safe and good luck!

    • @ JD
      You wrote above “Scant = a slab of stone (usually sawn on two sides) but could be like a flagstone.”
      I have never heard this.
      Thank you, that could be very helpful when my boots hit the ground. 😉

  40. Considering we are looking for “the hidey spot”…. I will pose this question here.

    In a list form, what does one need in order to follow a treasure map (considering the poem as a map)?

    * Location
    * Distance
    * Map
    * Path
    * “X” marks the spot

    Anyone want to add or discuss?

    • James (TPZ) I think your attempt above, like all of us searchers is to locate the Hidey Spot on a geographical map using the poem as the guide, to create the path to X correct?

      Since there is another thread on this site called “The word that is KEY” I feel you need just one more step to see more clearly what that would look like, so you asked to add too or discuss, to which I say:

      ALL Maps have a Key or Legend. A map key or legend is included (designed) with the map to unlock it. It gives you the information needed for the map to make sense. Maps often use symbols or colors to represent things, and the map key explains what they mean.

      IMO the Key word to unlock the legend in our poem is the word “HINT” in the first Stanza, ff has said that there are at least 9 clues in the poem but he never mentions hints that may exist in the poem, but he also says that a few searchers are in tight focus with a word that is KEY. he admits there are hints in the Thrill Book, ff even says that his intention was never to mislead and clues of the poem are in contiguous order, and with each solve you are geographically moving closer to the TC. Sometimes it is not what they say, perhaps the key is the hint that is whispered.

      I felt that until I had a solve that matched the 9 clues, and incorporated what I believe are 5 hints from the poem as well, then turning back to the Thrill Book finding its obscure hints, was a little like playing Canasta, just too many possible hints to narrow in on, so I tried to narrow down what I believe are hints in the poem just like using a legend then returning from the book and my solve and finally when the snow melts I will get my 30th hunt underway.

      This has been a 5 year quest and lots of errors, dead ends and worst of all trying to imagine what ff meant so I will leave you with this thought, look at the key word thread and the list of hints I feel are in the poem and tell me what you think. Otherwise you may find 12 to 14 “clues” in the poem, so which ones do you see?

      Tom T

    • Hello James. I like your question.

      All of your treasure map requirements sound like what you find from your Garmin. Unfortunately, you can’t plot it until you know where to start and finish.

      When I think treasure map, imagination, clues and interpretation come to min . Complex then simple. A special map contains more than directions. Use your imagination and start at the beginning.

  41. Hello all! Tomorrow is the big day, we are heading out on the most exciting adventure. Thank You Forrest Fenn for giving us the opportunity of a lifetime!!! I really would like to find Indulgence so I can get another old Bronco. We sold ours last year and I miss rolling topless in my pink (more fushia actually) barbie bronco. It was that color and name when we got it..lol.

    May not have much service, so you guys may have to wait to find out. : )

    • Maybe SL,
      I have thought about this extensively months ago.
      Maybe, when the sun is at it’s highest point on that day, will light the way (blaze) to the treasure.
      I have abandoned this theory for a few reasons.
      Watching Raiders of the Lost Ark was not one of them.
      Cloudy days & only one day or a couple to get it right in the year.
      Just doesn’t make sense to get the kids off the coach for the summer. Too tight a window.
      The sun light diffusion from a far distance through rock crevices. Blurry.
      The sun light through a rock crevice at a short distance would narrow it down too much. You wouldn’t need it.

      But, I will say that it does fit the look quickly part of the poem. You may miss it as the sun goes by & that brings me to another thought. What was all that good info about the blaze?

      • “The person that finds it, is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.”
        “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

        Jake, you said; “Cloudy days & only one day or a couple to get it right in the year. Just doesn’t make sense to get the kids off the coach for the summer. Too tight a window.”

        Could that be the reason we need to “Plan” and why the path would not be direct with “no certainty” of the location beforehand?

        If the ‘blaze’ is only usable one or two times a year, that would help with fenns thought of 100 or 1000 years down the road [ unless know beforehand ], why searchers where 200′ from it but not know it, and it sure seems to have a lot of folks of the sofa.

        As far as the sunlight goes… are we to use the light? or the shadow of something? I could picture being on a mountain side looking across the valley or canyon and seeing the peak shadowing the opposite side to a point.

        Fenn was asked, is the blaze in the poem or “only” in the field? he declined to answer… Could it be that the poem leads to that one place to view the shadow? Imagine how many searcher could find that place [the blaze] and still not know beforehand what is needed to be done.

        Fenn did say we had to earn it… what is, too tight a window?

        • Is it logical to have a hunch that you need to be there at only one day of the year?
          The right place at the right time?
          Lets just throw the other 364 days out the window.
          You might as well make it a million years if there’s only one day in the year it will be revealed.
          “*Don’t let logic distract you from the poem”
          So which one is it?
          “The person that finds it, is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.”

          Use your logic. Not in the poem.

          “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

          So how is it you would have the certainty of the time line but yet, you actually need the location.

          Yes it’s possible that only one day in the year is the only day to reveal it.
          But, I am willing to bet on location before time line 364 to 1 if you are precise in the winter, about 173 to 1 in more seasonable conditions.

        • BTW Seeker,
          “Second, I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”

          So what you & SL seem to be expressing is that you could be closer than 12′ & not find it if your not paying attention to that very tiny tight window where the sun winks on your spot.

          Not buying it.
          It’s getting very cloudy now.
          Location, location, location.

          I am not sure where he has mentioned anything about time & sun being what you need.

          Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.” f

          In lighten me please.

          • Fenn also said no one is likely to stumble across it…
            So is it more logical a searcher needs understands beforehand what they need to be doing? or Do we just trash the place, dig holes, or buy the most expensive metal detector on the market?

            You said: “I am not sure where he has mentioned anything about time & sun being what you need.”

            Why would he mention that? if it’s true, we need to figure that out… right? While at the moment it may sound like a hunch to you… I say there may just be meanings to provide enough information to say, it is more than plausible. Of course it is all about how one reads the poem.

            I have always thought through reading the poem… there is something needed to be done on site to locate the chest… whether calculating, alignment, pacing, triangulation… or even waiting for the right moment in time… shadow.

            Let me give an example of one simple reading of stanza 4; If you been wise [ a Birdseye view or elevated location ] and found THAT location ~ the blaze, look quickly [ time involvement ] your quest to cease. If tarry means don’t linger long, and scant means small or short time to gaze at what needs to be seen.

            Now we have two scenarios…
            1. a searcher at the correct location ~ ‘blaze’ with no knowledge of where the chest is or how to locate it.
            2. A searcher who understood what the poem tells of, and plans for the right time to marvel at the spot.

            12′ or 120′ doesn’t matter if we don’t know what it is to be done when and where we are there.

            There are just some examples… Unless all is needed to do is, walk up to a blaze [marker/?] and rollover / stone or look under a bush directly in front of your feet.

            Keeping with this line of thinking… HLAWH may just be the blaze we need to look down from… is this why the next line… If you’ve “been” [ past tense ] wise [ elevated view ] and “found” [ past tense] the blaze [ HLAWH ] we need to do the next step in the instructions look [an action] Quickly, [time sensitive] down [direction], to cease, but linger a short time to gaze at the last spot we need to go to.

            The poem talks about time if you read it as such… in there ~ in time, keep my secret where ~ in time, new and old ~ time or the start and end of seasons/events
            Not far but too far to walk ~in time.
            The end is ever drawing closer/near in time. No creek as no water, but a narrow passage? The four stanzas all relate to time… unless all your doing is reading a map/travel-guide looking for bears, fish water etc.

            So what is it that we all know of that relates to Time since time began…Other than Goofy’s wee gee mouse pad.

          • No one will stumble on it. Yes searchers need to do their home work beforehand such as TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.
            So what are maps used for? Why a good map?
            Places & directions?
            These are “excellent research materials”. Fact. You may throw geography in there as well. So we can now make an educated guess based on the facts.
            Not a hunch, why else would you need a map unless you need to start a fire to get warm & dry when that’s the only dry material around.
            So what does the poem have in common with these excellent research materials?
            Directions & places?
            What do time references in the poem relate to a map or GE?

            I see where your coming from & where you are headed & not all searchers solves are based on hunch’s.
            Hunch: A feeling or guess based on intuition rather than known facts.
            We have facts & are using them to come to an educated guess.
            I could also say that because there doesn’t seem to be any references to the sun or light in the poem or on a good map, what you guys have is a hunch. You may say the blaze is the sun or light & maybe marvel gaze, but we don’t know that for sure, do we?

            Like I said before, I had researched this theory extensively about right time & place in relation to the sun & had to discard it. The window is so tiny

            Back to the spot.
            Why do you have to look “quickly” down? Cold water or Sun & time.
            But tarry scant. Your cold & wet & need to get out of there to a warm place & dry or it’s at the end of the day & will be getting dark soon, but you may have a flashlight which weakens this thought.
            Your effort will be worth the cold. Not sure where the sun or time comes in to play here, but I do know that if you need to go into a wet creek in the Rockies, chances are it will be cold.

            This is a straight forward approach at face value with some speculation.
            Get your waders ready.

          • Jake,

            The word light or sun or bright doesn’t need to be used for one to read as such.
            Just as the word creek, you take it as literal to mean wet. This has been one of the reasons why I tend to lean away from the literal terms and means… maybe not lean away… more bending all the meanings is a better way of saying it.

            Creek has more than one definition and usage… A narrow passage is one.
            Just like the word drawing could mean art, it also could mean drainage or pulling. Then we have the word meek [ no sense in giving all the definitions, you see where I’m going with those]

            Now take stanza 3 and look at it with geography / map in mind. It seems we have water involve, a high elevation involved, a drainage involved, a place that is opposite of meek… all in a poetic tone. A narrow passage that drains water from a high elevation, seems very reasonable and straightforwards… but is creek and meek simple water? What we know is we are in the RMs… the CD the “backbone” [ no meek] of the Rockies, a narrow non-human trail that is the watershed for the drainage to all those stream, lake, river… to the oceans.

            I used this stanza to make the point, to read the poem too straightforwards in such a literal way limits thought and give way too may options in understanding what creek may refer to if you only think of it as a creek you need to cross or get wet in.

            Time is also the same understanding wen you breakdown word usage.
            In there… in time
            Where… in time
            New and Old or past and present… time
            Begin… in time
            take in… in time
            Too far to walk… in time
            end… in time
            etc. etc.
            Skip literal definitions for a moment and look at ‘word usage’
            Is warm and/or cold strictly temperature?
            Is treasure and trove the same thing?

            So just because you don’t see words such as light, sun, day etc. does that mean word usage doesn’t apply to light or shadow etc. IMO [ and that is all ‘anyone’ as at this point ] simple reading of the poem may actually be a fault because we leave out the poetic tone, and why fenn choice this particular avenue to present clues.

            Straightforwards doesn’t always mean non complicated… it can mean, in all ‘honesty’. Added poetic / poem word usage and you have the ability to use all the meanings and usages, even bending and twisting them to make it work… and … be honest in what is being told, but still very difficult.

            Yep… fenn warned us not to “over complicated” this. He also warned us not to “over simplify” a clue either.

            Just food for thought.

          • I’m chewing it Seeker,
            It may be sustenance but not very tasty for my pallet.
            The problem I have with twisting & bending is knowing where to draw the line.
            Once you step over that line, you’re in no mans land.
            Where is the line? Only Forrest knows, so we must be careful not to stretch, twist or bend it too much where it breaks. We do not know the breaking point, but I know to stay away from it as well as staying away from simplicity. Somewhere in the middle seems to be a good spot.

            “Just as the word creek, you take it as literal to mean wet.” No I don’t, there are dry creeks as well. I just see “your creek” as being wet.

            “Just like the word drawing could mean art, it also could mean drainage or pulling.”
            Art & drainage, yes pulling, absolutely. Why would you have to put in if your not pulling out somewhere?

            I don’t see all the words in the poem as literal but a good healthy dose of it seems to be there right under our nose, as plane as the text you are reading now. The interpreted context of the poem still has to flow to keep it’s beauty & message unlike me slipping plane in the sentence above unless you see it as fly, then it works.

            Let’s face it. Even face value, literal intent with a couple of twists & bends can be very difficult to solve considering the vastness of the RM’s & everyone’s different thinking styles including those who step over the line, like I have done before, but never again.

            A commenter was asking Forrest to clarify the other day about the 8.25 miles.
            I prefer to stay away from any of the borders or lines that Forrest has set. Why get close to the them when you don’t have to. I think Goofy said it right, moot point.

            Would you consider the books to be straightforwards with a couple aberrations & embellishments? I do. It makes for better reading & that goes for the poem as well.

            Now that I have swallowed the sustenance, I feel a need to regurgitate a little, but not so much as to lose all the nutrients. That would put me in no mans land like some of the searchers here.

            Remember, the poem still has to flow & work when you interpret.

          • “The poem in my book is something that I changed over and over again. When you read the poem it looks like just, just simple words there. But I guarantee you that I worked on that. I felt like an architect drawing that poem.”

            There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f 

            Preface of the book; “I tend to use words that aren’t in the dictionary, and others that are, I bend a little.

            Would you want the person that finds your treasure to admire the place where it rests? Andrew
            Well Andrew, I’m not sure “admire” is the right word but if we twist it a little maybe we can make it work. The word means approval or high regard. So it works. I sure feel that way or I would not have hidden it there. I like the way you think Andrew. f

            Jake ~ all I’m saying is… when I read comments, the book etc. I see a pattern of what we may or should be looking for.
            We just have different interpretation of straightforwards.

            *** “When you read the poem it looks like just, just simple words there. But I guarantee you that I worked on that. I felt like an architect drawing that poem.”

          • Seeker,
            We also have to look at the fact of Forrest knowing where he was going to hide the chest & make the poem work. So he knew exactly where he was going to put it & tweak the poem for years to make it work.
            Point “I” was known (Where the chest resides)
            Point “A” was also known by him. (Starting point)
            I am using “A” & “I” as 1 & 9 as in clues.

            Create a poem & fill in the directions between these points in consecutive order.
            Both points are very special to him.

            Considering the restrictions set by point “A” & “I”, there appears to be only one path describing directions how to get there.
            How special would it be to have “A” at his favorite fishing spot or bathing area?
            “A” came after “I” in this case, so it would make sense that “A” is also a very dear, special place for him.

            I don’t know point “I” but would put allot of bucks right near Ojo in the Firehole.
            Maybe it’s all just a hunch.

            BTW, seeing Forrest likes poker, I think he is bluffing:
            “The poem in my book is something that I changed over and over again. When you read the poem it looks like just, just simple words there. But I guarantee you that I worked on that. I felt like an architect drawing that poem.”

            The poem is not as complicated as everyone thinks it is.
            Read his quote again, over & over, analyzing what he’s actually saying.
            He guarantees you, that he worked on it. No doubt there.
            He never states the opposite of simple.
            Architect. Yes
            Changed it over & over again. Sure, to make it work between point “A” & “I”.

            His tell is: “When I wrote that poem I wasn’t playing any games, It’s straight forward.”
            This is where he tips his cards. So he has a straight off suit.
            That’s beatable with a flush & easier to get if you’ve played the game.

            I hope to call his bluff in June & if I lose, I will never play him at his game again.
            I don’t want to go down in history chasing & spending like so many others.
            You got to know when to walk away from the table.

          • Jake you said..

            “Changed it over & over again. Sure, to make it work between point “A” & “I”.”

            I like your logic but shouln’t we be going from point “A” to point “B”?

          • Thanks Spallies,
            “A” is the first clue & “I” is the 9th letter in the English alphabet as in the final clue.
            Many have been to A & B – some have been within 200′ of “I”

          • LOL… ok sure… that comment is a bluff?!
            What can I say to that…
            Seems I keep hearing a lot of folks who say the poem is straight as an arrow, directional only, fenn wasn’t playing games… does the exact opposite with is comments.

            Good chatting…

          • We are all sitting down at the table playing a big game of poker with the man who started the game.
            Bluffing is a part of the game & his game.
            I am going out on a big hunch that the poem reads as directions with a twist & bend here & there.
            I have seen allot of other searchers cards that ended up in the muck.
            What do I have to lose going one more last time?
            You were right when you said “that’s dumb Jake” when I threw out parts of my solve, but it made me think in another way & still came back to my original way of thinking.
            You can’t blame a person for that.
            No, it’s not straight as an arrow, but the arrow will find it’s mark someday, probably not our day.
            Pleasure exchanging ideas we may not have any control over.

        • This is one of the most important statements Forrest has made.

          “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

          How would anyone know the path of the location beforehand? But sure for the one who did?

          Why does he say “did”?
          He could have said “does”
          But sure for the one who does.

      • Fenn said that the chest could be found anytime if you know where it is. It does not matter where the sun is, or what the weather is. If you understand the clues, as Fenn has said, you can find it any time.

          • If you know “exactly” where the chest is, you could “probably” retrieve it in any weather.

            Until Indulgence is found, only Fenn knows exactly where it is. Even the precise, confident searcher won’t know until that point. I would hate to hike all day and get to a 200′ x 200′ area and miss it. Limo of course.

  42. Hi SL – and yes, that could explain the “look quickly down” aspect because the “blaze” won’t last very long, like the sun dagger at Chaco. But, it may not have anything to do with an equinox or solstice. Perhaps another date is more important to ff. Just a thought.

  43. Puzzled, you said ff said that the chest could be found anytime if you know where it is. It does not matter where the sun is, or what the weather is. If you understand the clues, as Fenn has said, you can find it any time. I am wondering if you thought about how many feet of snow or water may be on top of the TC?

    ff was asked if the Blaze faced the direction of north, south, east or west and to paraphrase him. ff said “none” of those directions, so it (the Blaze) is facing either up toward the sky or Quickly down toward the center of earth… Perhaps it is both???

    Is that accurate?

    Puzzled, correct me if I am wrong? Also define CANYON and DOWN, OK.

    Tom T

    • Not quite true. Mr. Fenn has commented before on the precision of directions, so it could very well be facing SW or NNW, which is none of those directions.

      • seabee88,

        I made the directional alignment reference “up” as a general idea, imagine the Washington Monument, not as viewing the entrance of the monolith, just it’s overall impression like a spire pointing straight up a pyramid is oriented in the mind of it’s architect/creator as facing the heavens.


        What if the Blaze was man made in that shape, with only the purpose to make a monument toward the heavens?

        Tom T

        PS when were you in the Navy Sea Bee’s? For me, Jan 1964 through Dec 1967, After “A” school, I was assigned to the remaining of my four years to amphib fleet, APD’s, carried UDT Team 21 and westpac Marine recon’s, then 1 year active reserve, 1 year inactive reserve. IC-3, now called ET’s.

        Sometimes ff reminds me of an ET, Extra Terrestrial I mean. HA! HA!

    • Tom T- you said,
      “ff was asked if the Blaze faced the direction of north, south, east or west and to paraphrase him. ff said “none” of those directions, so it (the Blaze) is facing either up toward the sky or Quickly down toward the center of earth… Perhaps it is both???” (Tom T comment above)

      My opinion is that the blaze does not face N, S, E, W, Up, or Down. I feel certain of what the blaze is. My opinion is that the person who studies the poem will know exactly what the blaze is and will be able to go directly to the TC. (opinion of Puzzled)

      I agree with Med_evac and Tom T, that it would be much more difficult and dangerous to to try to acquire the TC if it is under snow. It is dangerous to head out into the wilderness, away from a known trail when the weather is cold or stormy. I do not recommend it. My point about being able to find the TC in any weather, regardless of where the sunlight is, was meant to state that I believe the poem tells us exactly where the TC is and we should be able to go directly to it after studying the poem. I’m not done studying. I had a solve early on, but soon discovered that this poem has much more to it than what we see on the surface. So I’m back to the drawing board looking seriously at three different locations. We are to “look at the whole picture” so I am looking at three whole pictures. I have worked through what I believe to be the correct answers to several of the clues and I have found numerous hints in the poem. I think I have the key word. This will take more time. I do believe I am on the right track and I definitely believe I know which of my three studied locations is correct. But, I do not have the TC so. . .

      Tom T.- sorry, but I cannot elaborate on the word “canyon” or the word “down”. There are useful sources to discover the definitions of these words and what they could possibly mean other than what is common belief. I know that if I say I am going to hike in “the canyon”, you would probably assume you know what I am saying. But these words have ancient meanings and implications. It takes study!

      I do have a questions for you Tom T.- I can’t find a discussion from several months ago and for whatever reason, I keep thinking it was you that made the comments I’m thinking of. Looking for the person who suggested that some of the clues in the poem might be revealed in rock or soil layers. Was that you?

      • Nope, it was not me, I don’t even suspect any thing?

        Thanks for looking at the poem with a different angle, that is why IMAGINATION is more Important than Knowlege, or is it knowledge, I mean did I mispell “angel” above, that could be the key? Huh? the angel is the blaze maybe..

        Tom T

  44. Hello all and good morning. We drove all night and are still driving. It’s nice to see the land scape in the daylight. Wind is bad.

    • Kedars mom, when will yall arrive? Can’t wait to hear the stories of ur adventure. Be careful and stay safe.

    • Good afternoon KM,
      You should be at your mark now.
      I see it’s very windy in the Rockies except for Montana.
      SW Wyoming appears to be a wind tunnel as is N Utah & S Idaho.
      Would you be coming from the West coast?

      • We’re still driving, an hour or two until we get to our hotel. It’s so beautiful out here. The sun is shining.

        • Hello KM
          Glad to you guys made it ok. Now it’s time to have some fun. Where are you staying at? We’ve stayed in a few places that haven’t been what I would say is exactly, NICE TO BE IN. LOL
          Have fun AND PLEASE BE SAFE.

          • Timothy, not saying a word of our location. It is a secret. Now the question is….have I been wise and found the blaze and looked quickly down. : )

  45. I find it interesting how many times f mentions or refers to the hidey space in the poem… Let’s count them.

    1. As I have gone alone in there, and with my treasures bold…

    2. I can keep my secret where…

    3. The end is ever drawing nigh… This one might be debatable if it refers to the chest’s location or not, but I’m throwing it in anyway.

    4. But tarry scant with marvel gaze, just take the chest and go in peace…

    5. And leave my trove for all to seek? I have done it tired and now I’m weak…

    6. If you are brave and in the wood, I give you title to the gold.

    Argue the clues how one perceives them, but for me, trying to assign multiple references of the hidey spot in the poem to be different clues/locations seems backwards, even counterproductive. It seems to me f is really trying to give a lot of information about the hidey spot, this very special place of his; that is if he wasn’t lying when he said that the poem is straight-forward.

  46. Hear me all and listen good!!!!!!

    Had one of those “ah ha” moments. A HGTV show talked about rock speakers. I checked Amazon and sure enough–some are large enough to “hide” the chest inside. It’s neither burried or not burried. It’s hidden.

    It’s not possible, is it, that battery life could last this long and a searcher could hear it play if his phone was in bluetooh mode?

      • I have actually thought FF could have had a fake hollow boulder cast in bronze to cover the TC. Bronze would last much longer than fiberglas against the elements (including fire), would be heavier than fiberglas (not as easily moved/shifted by wind or animals), and would blend in with the surroundings better (even over time as it acquired a poatina). Harebrained, I know.

        • I split a 500 lb 2.5′ rock in half because I saw a hairline crack all the way around the center, and it was near my blaze. Took 6 hours to accomplish but got it, and when I say it I mean two 250 lb halves of a sandstone rock. 🙁

          But yes I thought he could’ve split it open, cored out a spot in the middle, put the chest there, then epoxy the rock back together and have it sitting out in the open. 😯

          • I am falling out of my chair laughing Will.
            Hahahahah. You are one crazy dude.
            Sorry it wasn’t there. What ever possessed you to think it was in there?

          • Now I know where you got your moniker…Iron Will. Being a stone sculptor myself, I know the challenge.

            Take a break, and TRY to STAY SAFE Iron Will


          • I read that Will some time ago & was never able to finish it.
            Thanks for the refresh.
            I hope your back on your medication after that.

          • There you go with your belittling comments again. I don’t know why I expected more from you.

          • Sorry to crinkle you.
            I was just poking a little fun as others do to me at times.
            Anyway, I see the Blue Ribbon as a clue.
            Not sure if I would be taking measurements from Tesuque body.

          • Iron – My son and I visited that very spot in May. While it is not the spot where the chest is hidden it’s in close proximity to where the chest is hidden IMO.

    • Interesting idea. But Fenn has said that it could be found many years from now. So if it isn’t found for 100 or 1000 years, that wouldn’t work.

      • All I know is: when I’m in the wood I’ll be rockin’ Eddy Arnold. And if a rock starts playing the same song…I’m going to look quickly down.

      • I mistated Fenn’said comment about 100 or 1000 years. He was asked if the clues existed when he was a kid and if they will exist in “100 or 1000 years”. Fenn responded, ” I think they might exist in 100 years. . .If you are in the year 3009, it will be more difficult for you to find the treasure”. I took that to mean that the treasure could be there in 100 or 1000 years but that may not be the intended meaning.

  47. I just assume that WWH means the entire Rocky Mountain Range. Narrowing down the state is the next level. Assume that since Fenn has a secret, and the only state he doesnt talk about is Colorado, then that would be a logical starting point. Somewhere in Colorado. Since the pome hints of Riches new and Old, then one could assume that Denver used to be known as Montana City. Fenn may be hiding his words with other words he has hinted. Montana City/Denver is a gold rush establishment. There is your riches new and old. However, during this time it was part of the Kansas Territory. So technically on a map a long time ago, if you were searching in this area, you would be searching in the limits of name Kansas.
    Im not bias, I just think Colorado has more evidence pointing to it, than anything else. Fenn didnt have TV’s growing up, that had Radios, and if there were TV’s they were black and white.
    I just take the context of the Word Colorado itself, and you get get some valid points. Color is a word. Maybe that is why fenn elaborates a rainbow, and why some of us, see images of the Wizard of OZ in the poem.. I would start with that, if you are not sure. I do rule out the other states, because I think Fenn simply uses them for distractions and hints.
    When someone hears the Rocky Mountains, They dont think of Montana, or Wyoming, and for damn sure dont think of New Mexico… They think of Colorado, just like Zac Brown did.

  48. All,

    It’s interesting to go back and read one’s previous ideas, the discussions involved and to reflect on how far we all have come in such a short period. From here to the end, one will sit a stir in surprise only to depart in peace with the prize.


      • Jake,

        Thought you might be swimming in this forgotten hole. The answers I “think” I already knew, the key is to understanding the meaning of the words in the poem. All falls into place once you know it. Those things we once thought were key become less relevant, and are just lures for those unfortunate few who bite.


        • LitterateOne – You wrote:

          “All falls into place once you know it.”

          Are you looking in Montana or Wyoming,…in the YNP vicinity,…and do you think “it” is the Madison River,…and that ff had “done it tired”,…when he wrote about fly fishing in the preface of TFTW?

          • E*,

            I am not, and I would propose a tight focus on the meaning of words, particularly the ones named.


          • Very good advice LitterateOne – especially those definitions not commonly used. Just an thought.


          • LitterateOne – You meant THESE words that YOU named?:

            “…one will sit a stir in surprise only to depart in peace with the prize.”

            As equivalent to:

            “But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
            Just take the chest and go in peace.”

            What do I REALLY think is on that stone (from ff’s San Lazaro Pueblo wall IMO),…that I think lies flush to the ground,…covering the cache that contains the Bronze Chest?:

            This rainbow-shaped inscription:

            “I wish I could have lived to do, the things I was attributed to.”

            Only someone on The Chase would recognize that flat stone (aka. a “scant”) as belonging to Forrest Fenn,…and would know that the Bronze Chest lies beneath it. IMO.

          • E*,

            The best advice I can provide to anyone is take a step back and with an unmolested eye and ear, closely view the words in the poem.


        • LitterateOne, yes. If you have followed some of my posts you know that I feel the same way. The real, root or archaic definitions to the words are very important. I have looked all of the words up and then some . I can not get it to fit to the geology. I understand what Forrest is trying to say to us, but my starting point must be off because there are to many possibilities for the end.

          LitterateOne, Tacit, have you looked up tacit. It is a word he says in preface of TFTW. Tacit, look it up in Wikipedia and dictionary if you haven’t already. It means to KNOW. SILENT Knowledge, you just do it like riding a bike. You just know. You get it.

          Relates to Think and focus and seeing. All important to know the answers I believe.

          How do I connect it to geology LitterateOne?

          • DPT,

            The lessons I gain from the blogs have greatly lessened as of late, I guess that’s why they call them lessons. SO, I must confess I may not have seen your previous posts.

            Only looking up the meaning of words isn’t enough, and I do not assume you do this. I firmly believe we must also understand how words interact with one another and how they can adjust the meaning of a sentence. Furthermore, the style and structure in which this poem is writing masks and tricks the reader and that is why Forrest may have chosen it.

            I do not posses TFTW as I do not want to further cloud my already molested mind with more information that does not get me “closer” to the chest.

            There is a significant difference between geology and geography, and maybe you meant the later, as I do not see an need for a comprehensive knowlege of geology in solving this riddle.


        • You are so straight to the point L1,
          Very helpful with great insight here on this site.
          I would have never known it was you who commented unless you do this.
          Your relentless logic is uncommon to no one & that is what makes us get it all.
          I will share something very important here & now with you.

          The person who searches the depths of the unknown will certainly go there without knowing where they are. In fact this place is known only to the ones that have been there. It is only them that experience this great provision to the insight of the fact of not knowing anything.

          Do you get my point?


  49. Earlier in this thread some searchers thought perhaps ff had created a disguise or camouflaged the chest by making a cover of bronze, fiberglass rock etc, the problem with that theory is it is an extra thing to transport, I assume ff took a back pack (twice) and if there were a cover, the pack could be the most likely if there was a cover, it is possible he left it over the chest and contents, just sayin, so that deteriorating pack would be more likely for ff to use.

    Tom T

    • I don’t know where it was. It was a while back. I recall reading that when asked how he carried the TC and the contents to the hiding place, did he use a bag or a back pack? As I recall his response was that he used both. That would allow for two loads in the back pack and two loads in the bag. Thus, he may have carried in some time of material to disguise the TC.

      • Windy City,

        I Wonder:

        How did Forrest take the “treasure” part of Indulgence “in there” on the second trip?…..having left the bronze chest “in there” on the first trip.

        The chest would be undamaged, I guess, in a backpack on the first trip.

        The Inca frog, gems, nuggets, glass containers….would have needed a bag(s), I think, to put in his backpack.

        What sort of bag would Forrest Fenn choose to hold this awesome assortment of treasures?

        Perhaps THE BAG is the surprise! (didn’t f hint at a ?…neveermind)

        Joseph “The Bag” Jones

      • If the Hidey Spot were very close to his “safe” in Santa Fe and he made two trips in one afternoon, he could take the bronze chest in first, go home and get the contents and return to the Spot carefully placing said contents and closing lid, now that is possible.

        My feeling is he took the chest first, then the contents, surely he looked around and listened to make sure no one saw or heard him deposit his stash.

        Digging makes noise, shoving indulgence into a prepared or natural hole, crack, or cave etc and disguising it somehow makes perfect sense.

        Once while bow hunting in the mountains of northern NM I watched two men dig a large hole from a distance, using my camo, face mask and being hidden from their view, saw these two characters hide a large PVC pipe in the hole they dug, it had a screw on lid and was 10″ in diameter with a threaded cap. Waiting until till those me left, I walked to their working area and uncovered that pipe, unscrewed the cap and guess what I found inside?

        Perhaps that sounds a little far fetched, but it is true, perhaps I will tell you later what was sealed inside, or maybe not.

        Tom T

    • The Bag that held the treasures new and old for the second trip, would make a good cover for Indulgence,

  50. If I may but in: Re: chicken or the egg…..Treasures left unattended in vehicle would have been to risky….treasures first then the chest…..don’t have the link/quote but this is the order of ops as I recall. IMO

    • I think it has been established that f said the chest went first.

      But I also think we err when expecting all f’s statements to be flawless.

    • Cholly, I still remember the first scene in the Movie “No Country for Old Men” which won all kinds of awards, sorta like a precursor to “Breaking Bad”, both filmed in NM, between 2007 and September 29, 2013.

      Searching for ff’s treasure in NM is a Thrill, just as you can imagine in those films, except for the extreme dangers it feels like a rush when you think you may have it figured out.

      I do believe more than 3 clues have been postulated on this blog, simply because ff said long ago 2 were solved early, but the persons did not recognize the other 7, perhaps now he is hinting at 4 being solved today?

      The last stanza, which I believe is a Hint, and not a clue says “Your effort will be worth the cold, If you are brave and in the wood” seems like some wading in cold water, at the right time of year and in a river named “WooD”.

      Tom T

  51. ======================
    The Case for Rock Shelter

    “Not in a cave” has been a thorn in my paw.

    “As I have gone alone in there”: The Hiding Spot, with the intent for the spot to be amenable to open air burial beside Indulgence.

    For me this rules out anything near-stream. A heavy chest could perhaps resist flowing water, but bones? To me, it mandates shelter. And not where critters frequent.

    “Not in a cave”
    BLAST you Forrest ! :0

    But. But. But. It’s GOT to be in a cave. Call Major Rationalization.

    ME: “Capt. It HAS to be in a cave.”

    MajorR:”That’s Major, son. A CAVE? What exactly did f mean, “cave”? ”

    ME: “I dunno, he was talking about mines and cave-ins…snakes and critters, I guess, talking about dangerous places you should not go.”

    MajorR: “Good you called me. I can attest: A rock shelter is not a cave.”

    ME: “How can you attest that?”

    MajorR: “Because I am MAJOR RATIONALIZATION, my boy.”

  52. I’ve only been at this for a few days, but must say that I may agree with the person “stealth” who posted above. The one sentence that lead me in that direction was “so hear me all and listen good”. Of course, proper English would state ” listen WELL”,
    not “good”. “canyon down”, “in there”, ” too far to walk”(u would most likely have climb or lower yourself not walk).

    Many other things seem to point to a well. Little children often find cool places to hide. Perhaps Forrest found an almost empty well when he was younger, and would go down ” with a flashlight and a sandwich” and daydream of the treasures he would find one day.

    It’s all conjecture of course, but it sure is fun to use your imagination isn’t it?

    • Joe

      Appreciate the +1. I know others don’t agree with this but I have many more reasons to believe this is correct.

      Read the poem carefully and they will keep jumping out.

      “Drawing” is the key word

      • Stealth, I believe that treating “drawing” as the key word tends to over-rate the significance of the word “drawing”. My solve is functionally unchanged by omitting the word “drawing”, although it does tend to
        help a little bit.

        If the poem’s line were changed to

        “The end is ever nigh”, that line would still mean the
        same thing to me.

        Compared to the word “drawing”, I think some more important words — that can’t be ignored in a correct solve — are the following, listed in the order they
        appear in the poem:


        The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

        Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe.

        • Stealth, although I like your connection of the
          word “drawing” to the idea that a well might be
          the hidey space, I think I remember that FF said that the treasure is not in a dangerous place. I can’t imagine it being very safe for a person to be lowered into — or climb down into — a well . . . particularly a thousand years from now.

          The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

          • Depends on the type of well….. some are quite safe and quite well preserved over hundreds of years….

          • The actual quotarion was “no need to dig up any outhouses…. Treasure is not associated with any structure”

          • Sorry Stealth, I am going to have to call you on that quote. Please post your reference. As I recall, he stated something more along the lines of… Not associated with a man made structure, so please don’t go digging up the old outhouse. I didn’t quote as I know not the actual quote. Can you reference me wrong?

          • That one is easy Slurbs, it’s on Fenn’s webpage:

            Clue #11
            No need to dig up the old outhouses, the treasure is not associated with any structure.

          • Thanks for the link Dal… of course that really just caused me to wander back into the is it the poem or is it the book and poem or poem and book debate… Despite the structure ‘human made’ or not comment, I’m sticking with “in a well” for reasons that I’m not ready to explain beyond what I have already shared.

            This is also my first chance to thank you and Goofy for keeping up the blog. It is much appreciated.

  53. Stealth—thanks for the reply. I will definitely look at the word “drawing”–thanks. My wife contributed to my search this morning. She said “where warm waters halt” is the pilot light on that darn water heater. Now get off your butt and fix it, and stop reading that dang poem”. Just kidding. Keep having fun with your search.

  54. I think that the hidey space can’t be “narrowed down” as much as a searcher
    would want. FF has apparently said that if one was within 12 feet of the TC,
    it’s not likely that it would not be found. In other words, if you were to enter
    a 24-foot-diameter circle that has the TC at its center, you’d be likely to find
    the TC.

    The clues, if followed precisely, lead to an area that is a bit larger than that.
    The area thus described appears to be more like a rectangle, on the side of
    a hill that has a slope of about 45 degrees. The rectangle is perhaps 200
    feet tall, and perhaps about 50 feet wide. There are some (sparse) trees in
    this area. It’s difficult to search, because it’s so steep, and the ground is
    very loose dirt (very dry in the summer, usually) and smallish rocks.
    Extremely difficult to climb. So it would take quite a while to search the
    entire zone.

    And don’t forget to bring a GOOD flashlight. I suggest a modern LED
    flashlight with at least 300 lumens of brightness. And NEW batteries.
    This is all very important. If you don’t use a good flashlight, your chance
    of finding the TC is greatly diminished!

    The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

    Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe (don’t hike alone).

  55. I think that Forrest’s Weekly post – posted today is very appropriate here
    “*If you think I could not have put it there, you are probably right. f”

    Good luck to all searchers, and TRY to STAY SAFE


    • JDA ,

      Looks like classic Fenn-speak to me.

      1) You are probably right, in that I could not have put it there.

      2) You are probably right but, you think I could not have put it there, so you went right on past . . .

  56. Widening our thoughts for a second from the hiding space to the immediate surroundings, Forrest says he thought of everything when hiding the TC. So can we rule out certain localities due to their terrain?

    For example, an earlier solve of mine took me close to a creek. Great! you might think, fishing spot etc. but when I returned a beaver dam just upstream had submerged a large area. I know some think the chest is under water already, but I’m not among them, and the spot being covered in this way wouldn’t seem right. It made me think that the chest won’t be too close to a river or creek in a flat valley floor.

    Similarly, I think you can discount steep slopes or anywhere there is a high chance of erosion, simply because Nature could move the chest too easily. We know it’s not at the top of a mountain, but what does that leave us? Meadows, flattish forested areas, plains not too near to creeks or the edges of narrow valleys. Anything else?

    • Pacman,

      We think alike. Erosion plays a major role in geography, and If Forrest was thinking ahead like he said he did it must be in a spot that erosion could not play a major role for years to come, this doesn’t mean it that erosion could not effect the places that the clues refer to as Forrest has said. Taking this into account I visualize a meadow and or clearing (synonymous). These features generally contain a minimal soil content and many rock outcroppings which prohibit large wood growth.


  57. regarding the “it’s not in a cave” reference by f
    we just went in a cave, Lewis&Clark Cave (cool), and that is not an abri which we found galore in the tuff of southern montana

  58. For reference, the government has strict guidelines on what a structure, dwelling, ruins and others are. I.e. Jemez historic site is considered ruins and not a structure even though it is man made.

  59. It just occurred to me that “special place”, in my mind, must relate to a place where Forrest as a youth found a special something.

    as a youth…..most impressible…..most memorable….

    not, perhaps, what older folk would find stunning

  60. Awhile back, I remember a Scrapbook and seeing a picture of a young man in the snow. He had a pole or something associated with one; and was standing above what appeared to be a “portal” (Forrest may have pointed it out).

    Here’s an example; ( possibly hidden with such things as dirt, brush, grass, rocks and stones)…. A type of ‘lid’ as well?

    A long with that **sandwich and flashlight, a pair of gloves could come in handy.


    Enjoy your journey,


      • pdenver,

        Once again, your attention towards detail and natural desire to offer others assistance comes shining thru!

        Yes, that’s the helper whom I was referring – Must be the pride & joy to those who know him; just look at that smile!

        Although, the “Cistern” might might not even come close to anything..”hidey”….it is something that really jumped out to me.

        Again, my friend, thank you.


        If you should get the chance, I hope you’ll listen to the youtube selection that I gave a link to below the first post. (Richard Harris, “Slides.”) I think you may enjoy it!

        • You’re welcome, SL. I have viewed Richard Harris’ “Slides,” and I thank you for pointing it out to me. It holds a lot of meaning within its words. As for the family helper, I truly do believe the family is quite proud of him, and he wears his smile well. It’s nice to see when others are happy.

          • P.S. I couldn’t find your original post, so I had looked it up myself. Is the song, “Slides” for which you were suggesting? I believe I viewed it when you posted it the first time, but my memory is failing me at the moment.

  61. I spent a lot of time thinking about this, how do you hide something that you don’t want found for a 500-1000 years?
    Hmmmmm….I wonder about being brave and in the wood. Maybe that’s why I came home empty handed. : )

  62. From King Lear to Père Goriot, Monet’s biographer chooses some of the best portrayals of men who hold our attention at an age when most writers are no longer interested. These words which describe FF to a Tee and allow us to understand what motivates the man who says he can retire? RETIRE, just another word for REINVENT https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/monet

    I doubt that word exist in his vocabulary, soon ff will emerge from this cocoon as a butterfly on the wall or a frog described as a handsome prince.

    Do we truly believe he will hide himself forever, ? or that the hidey spot where the treasure sits will remain obscure from our site?

    Ney! I say the spot, that spot, come out dang spot, it shall be discovered by one of us soon. or later?

    Tom T

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