The Hidey Space…Part Two

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This is the place to discuss the the space where the chest is hidden. Is it in a cave, a hole in the ground, in a river or creek, behind a waterfall, out in the open? Tell us what you think the resting place for the chest looks like.

671 thoughts on “The Hidey Space…Part Two

      • The place for the chest is full of sand
        The place for the chest is high as planned
        The place for the chest is grey of day
        The place of the chest came from clay
        The place of the chest is not that meek
        The place of the chest makes me weak
        The place of the chest will last a thousand year
        The place of the chest is oh so dear
        The place of the chest is below the blaze
        The place of the chest is at the end of the maze
        Is the place of the chest clue # 10 ?
        The place of the chest of course is a fen

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fen

        My bad , this isn’t a poem thread now is it ?

    • I’m going to guess in a water source. Low oxygenated water would insure longevity of the wood liner IMO

    • It’s in a well. An old fashioned water well. I realize that this goes against “not associated with any structure” but I think that is overly broad. The key part of that message was “don’t need to dig up any outhouses…” meaning that you don’t need to destroy/desecrate anything to find the treasure.

      I have very specific reasons for believing that I am correct that I’m not going to share because they tie to the rest of my solve, but I will share a lot of why I think this is correct in the hope that the rest of my solve (specific location of the well and TC) is incorrect, it can help someone else with theirs.

      1. FF has been clear that it was his intention that the treasure would also be his final resting place. “Leave my bones and go in peace”. This means that the hidey spot would have to be concealed and protected from being ravaged by animals and the effects of nature. In a river the bones would wash away. Anywhere else animals would take them, even in a cave. Only other space would be in an old mine shaft, which FF has specifically excluded as too dangerous.

      2. “I know it is wet”. Certainly would be. Always.

      3. “As I have gone alone in there”.

      4. “In the wood” (while the casing may be made of stone, the area above ground is almost certainly made of wood). You would have to be in it. The bucket is likely made of wood also.

      5. “It’s worth the cold”.

      6. “No place for the meek”

      7. “Heavy loads and water’s high”.

      8. “I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak”.

      9. “Look quickly down”.

      10. “The end is ever DRAWING nigh”.

      11. “If you are within 12 feet, you would surely find it” … looking down.

      12. “You won’t randomly stumble upon it”

      There is so much more…

      If this helps someone find the TC please let me know…

      • Stealth,
        I am not sold on it being in a well.

        “The chest is not in a dangerous place,” he has said. “It’s somewhere you could take your kids.”

        I think in a well might be a little dangerous.

        • Jake,
          If the chest be in a well it may not be dangerous if there is a catch, f always has a catch for us. The well concept is part of one of my unfinished solves.

          • Well,
            Maybe I will recant my last comment. Maybe I should know what type of wells there are or what we are talking about. Now, if the treasure is in a mini Thor’s Well lookalike that is not dangerous but more of a personal bathing spot, then that’s where I am going.

            But as far as wells to extract water from???
            I am not catching on. Doesn’t mean I will drink from this well, but sometimes you need to lead this horse to the well.

          • If f placed a ‘catch’ on the chest, bring a rope and a hook of some sort and fish it out. There many wells/cisterns, or whatever the Pueblos called the, out there from time gone by.

          • uken2it,
            I don’t think he would leave the chest unlocked in such a vulnerable position where the contents have a good chance of ending up at the bottom of the well.
            I don’t think you will need rope or any type of tool except for gloves to retrieve it.
            Just well wishing.

        • Jake, I could lead you and your horse to the well… but what fun would that be. I am confident that the blaze points right to it and then it’s just a matter of looking quickly down. I will admit I have a little more trouble with “tarry scant and marvel gaze”

  1. I think the chest is out in the open and unburied (in the classical sense of the word), but that Forrest covered it with rocks to obscure it.

    • So why is it that I must go
      And leave my trove for all to seek?
      The answers I already know,
      I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

      I still speculate that this part of the poem that has something to do with how the chest is hidden. To me it’s not just the the question but what the words mean that he used like “I’ve done it” and then he’s tired and weak. And most never catch that it has nothing to do with why he hide it. It’s a question without an answer.

      • I really like that connection… The task of retrieving the chest is too much for Forrest, who spent that same but opposite effort hiding the chest the day before (or however long the stay in there)…

        The question might not be about why he hid the chest, the question might be about why he didn’t change his mind and take it back. He already knows how much work is required.

        The clue might have to do with how much effort is required to retrieve the chest.

      • I do not know where he hid the treasure. I think I can guess on the type of place he hid the chest.

        When we were young playing hide and seek, how did the game go, where were the hiding places?

        Hide behind the door, in the closet, under the bed, behind the drapes, under the stairs?

        In other words in a simple fashion, not buried like with a shovel.

        Then comes the seek part of hide and seek.

  2. It could be below the blaze, between water high & heavy lodes, under water, partially covered in silt & gravel, maybe that’s why the treasure has gained a little weight & you will need gloves.

    • and in the rocky mountains north of santa fe and south of canada in wyoming, montana, colorado or new mexico.

      I lean toward colorada in my solves but think it is really in New Mexico.

    • Jake, no gloves, just a flashlight and sandwich, between 5,000′ and 10,200′ near or at a Marvel Gaze, by the heavy loads and water high, somewhere at the blaze in the Rockies past WWWH…..etc. etc

      Tom T

      • Tom,
        Did I mention I’m from New England & a big Patriot fan?
        Now, Tom does where gloves in bad weather, usually when it’s cold & wet.
        Somehow I know the treasure is probably still is cold & wet unless someone found it already.

        The flashlight is only a “if” you cannot find the needle in the haystack to deflate the balls in the dark.

        I don’t plan on it being dark unless it’s in a cave.
        I will bring a sandwich to give the Grizzlies another option to my pepper sprayed body, that’s what the bear spray is for.

        The heavy loads is when the Griz plants you into the ground.

        Stop trying to take the air out of the balls, unless you need to breath from them under waters low.

  3. I think that it is in a stream, behind a “Tarry Scant” – I will know Saturday, when I make trip #4 to my “Hidey Space”.

    Good luck to all searchers and STAY SAFE

    JD

    • I can see the tarry scant from GE.
      Good luck JD.

      You wouldn’t want to bet another buck, would you?

      I think it’s great you are bringing a van full. I had to find my way to nature on my own. Maybe you can get them to bring a few nickles & dimes to help pay your debt. I hope all of the kids find a treasure.

  4. Searchers, remember, the TC was “hidden” years ago, most likely out in the open, not buried, possibly protected by a natural structure, but has accumulated dust and dirt on the top and is probably growing natural grasses on the top starting in the Spring. So be looking for the square shape because the bronze patina and dirt will make a great disguise. Of course, still my opinion.

    • That makes some sense Skip,
      I am not sure it is most likely out in the open though.
      I don’t think you will happen upon it or trip over it for that matter.
      Not sure it would be able to be hidden for 1,000 years if it was in the open.
      I am assuming “open” means (this a tough one) above ground & above the surface of water & exposed to air & sun light if not being shaded by a cave or crevice or canyon.
      To many variables in the word “open”
      This is open for my opinion.

    • Your right Big Skip, don’t forget about moss, especially in wet locations. Very hard to recognize with all the natural camouflage, under the bush. IMO

      For any one who has read their kids ” THE CAT IN THE BOX” I would say it is in the grass, under the bush, in the woods, near a rive, in the forest, in a park, in the Rocky Mountains, North of Santa Fe, in the USA, in North America, on the third rock from the sun…..

      • Sorry I mentioned being the 3rd rock from the sun.
        In fact, today is a new moon & now we are the 4th rock from the sun.
        Seeing Merc & Ven have no moons.
        I guess it depends upon how big your rocks are?

  5. I believe it is under a overhang at the base of a rock formation… And the rocks are visible on my map….

    • same here Lou, on all points, except perhaps a bit more “cavey”. Google earth horribly distorts steep slopes, so I’ll need BOTG to find the exact spot

      Karen (below), f said something to the effect of ‘if you were within 12 ft it is unlikely you will not find it”….those words aren’t exact, but the 12 ft is iirc

      this leads me to believe it is plainly visible, just in a place it is very unlikely people will go by chance

      • Being within 12 feet.
        Doesn’t necessarily mean you see the chest.
        You may see the blaze that is near the treasure.
        Something tells me you will only be at this place for one reason.
        Not hiking, not fishing, not sight seeing.
        You will be there for only one reason, looking for the chest.
        This would explain to me why you would not find it being within 12 feet.
        IMO.

  6. Dal…..can you confirm?? I think I recall FF stating somewhere that “if someone is within 6′ (or some relatively small distance), they’ll probably see it”.

  7. alot of these answers seem like guesses. The poem tells me exactly what to look for, and the time of day. Does anybody else see that?

    • John,
      The poem tells me exactly what to look for, and the time of day.
      I am not sure I have the time of day but the poem is trying to tell you what to find IMO.

    • John, and others,
      At one point, I thought IMO that a particular time of day was involved in the search for the hidey space; however, after more “precisely” reviewing the clues, I no longer think so.
      Geoff
      “Have flashlight and gloves, will travel”

  8. It’s in the bank, the river bank that is. Somewhere rocky, maybe on top of shale rocks shape like a rainbow but buried (covered, hidden) under river rocks. At a safe distance from those months where the river is at its highest. Not under water but it gets wet when the snow melts. It will not be accidental, anybody can walk right by it and keep walking. But those knowing of the search will know, you can’t be 12 feet from it and not notice. The rock cover structure has a shape known to the searchers. Not an X, too obvious but maybe an F or a Y. IMO… good luck and if it helps send me a double eagle…

    • oz10,

      OK, i slightly disagree with this theory based on Forrest’s comment that no one will happen or stumble upon the chest and if someone was within 12 ft of the chest that it would be unlikely that they would not find it. If both of these statements are true then we must assume that there is not a physical blaze or marker that could or would attract unwanted attention. The blaze is in my opinion and this has been stated on this blog going back to 2014 that the blaze could be the trail of clues leading to the trove. You can disagree with me and that is OK, i don’t have the chest yet.

      • I don’t have the exact quote but if my memory is right he said “I can’t imagine a searcher being 12 feet away and not finding it” and that is why that is my theory. On the other hand, if the comment was anybody being within 12 ft can find it then I will take a few rocks from the top of the chest to expose the bronze and everything else stays the same.

        I read a poem (don’t remember from who) that related to the river rocks always been ‘cold to the touch’. So you will need to make some effort and take the rocks away from it to pick up. BTW, effort= ‘F’ fort. There…

          • The context of “get that close” might be referring to a searcher who solved enough clues to take him/her within twelve feet of the chest. Forrest seems confident that nobody will stumble on it, no matter how lost in the wood.

            In that case, the chest can be totally concealed and it’s the correct blaze that a searcher will notice. The real clue here might be about the simplicity of finding the chest once the blaze is identified.

        • I agree with Muset, if you take it within context: ‘I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it’ The second part of that answer was still referring to the searcher. Meaning if a searcher was within 12 feet it would have been found and we will not be having this discussion. He has stated multiple times that nobody will stumble upon it by accident. Why is he so confident of it? How remote/hidden/out of sight is this place?

      • L1,
        “physical blaze or marker that could or would attract unwanted attention.”
        It could be physical & not attract attention IMO.

        • Jake,

          It is possible you are correct but, it just does not seem logical to me that Forrest would leave a physical marker. Why even write a poem containing 9 cues for those daring enough to precisely follow and then leave a marker that some lucky tourist could accidentally stumble upon. This is just as ill-logical as looking under every Mr. Brown in the Rocky Mountains.

          Think, analyze and move with confidence.

          • L1, Think, analyze and move with confidence.
            Think: If I was Forrest, I would want the blaze to be a natural feature in the landscape that would last at least 1,000 years.
            Analyze: You want to think like him. If you do not, you have no chance.
            Move with Confidence: If you have any questions about your solve, that reveals more questions, then you may have to question your solve.
            IMO

            I do not have any more questions for my solve.

          • Jake,

            The blaze is in the poem, so it much like a physical feature can and will last just as long. Line 13 of the poem is in the past tense, so in my opinion you confidentially know exactly where you are going, to the trove not the blaze.

          • I’m gonna buy that one L1,
            Why did Forrest pass on the Q about the blaze being there?
            I don’t have the exact quote but seems suspicious for him to pass on that Q.
            I have my own theory on what the blaze is & is still wet IMO.

            Yea, line 13, past tense. Let me get my horses in line.

          • This is exactly why a searcher has gotten within 200ft and didn’t know they had been so close, and precisely why Forrest thought they had solved 4 clues but wasn’t certain. Because said searcher was looking for a physical marker and didn’t understand what the blazes they were doing.

          • Sight seeing? Spallies…..
            Who knows, maybe they were watching the tree grow from the rich nutrients we have given them.
            Watch out for the Zasquitoes.
            I know the treasure is around here somewhere.

        • Did I dream this, or didn’t I read it in one of the scrapbooks, hear it in an interview, etc.: When questioned as to the destroy-ability of this ‘blaze’, FF answered with words to the effect that, “yes, it could be destroyed/obliterated [paraphrasing], but it would take a lot of work..”?

          • From The Nine Clues…Part Thirtyone / September 26, 2014) Forrest said:
            “While it’s not impossible to remove the blaze it isn’t feasible to try, and I am certain it’s still there”

          • Ugghh… You beat me Seeker….

            forrestfenn on September 26, 2014 at 4:06 pm said:
            I had an enjoyably visit with Tom and his brother at the Downtown Subscription Coffee Shop in Santa Fe. They seemed like nice guys and avid treasure hunters. But there is confusion somewhere. While it’s not impossible to remove the blaze it isn’t feasible to try, and I am certain it’s still there.

            And while I’m here I’d like to make some comments:

            I have never said that a searcher was within 2-feet of the treasure, or 6-feet, or 20.

            None of my bronze bells or jars are buried at San Lazaro Pueblo.

            The CE5 phrase on the treasure chest is of no value to searchers.

            Snow and freezing temperatures have already arrived to parts of the Rocky Mountains. If you plan to search this winter please be safe.

          • That we are, spallies… But I would love to seek and find… My quest to cease. 🙂

          • Hmm,

            Is it possible to remove WWWH, how about that canyon or maybe the creek and waters high?

            “it has become my nature to just smile and enjoy the small victory that comes with being quietly smug.” f

    • oz10,

      I believe the key is to question why is it that Forrest believes that is it unlikely for one who is within 12ft of the trove to not discover it. If you can answer that, then you are wise.

      • It is on a place where someone just walking the woods will not attempt to pass by because of some natural barrier. We know is not near a trail but if a hiker is just wondering out and about will choose the easiest path and away from the location. If by a big chance he was to cross the barrier and stomp by it then he may find it. That does not necessarily means that it is exposed. The hiker may just get curious on why is this pile of river rocks in this location.

        Now, if you have the right blaze you will walk exactly to the location. That is why he said that metal detectors will only work if you are right on the spot. F may have decided to cover it anyway just to protect it from possible fires, direct sunlight, drones searches… IMO

  9. My parents always told me I was their greatest treasure and they found me under a rock (at least that is what they told me when I was 3). I think that is a good place.

  10. “Tarry Scant with Marvel Gaze.” If i were to pick a place to sit and Die in the wild, wouldn’t it be great to sit in eternity in a place with a marvel gaze? The internal picture i get in my head is: Chest is sitting on the side of the hill, with a little elevation, off the beaten path a bit, but not to far. The view will be marvelous, awe inspiring, and somewhere that a view for eternity would never get old. There may be some fire damage still present – I am not implying that it has to be fire damage from the 80’s yellowstone fires. The chest will be the seat of a throne, with a back of a tree, or large rock.

    • Im with you on this theory. A throne facing east on top,of a steep canyon which is rich with lots of undiscovered history and artifacts and monuments that only the imagination can inturpit. Imagination is imo the key to the hidy spot which will lead you straight to the chest . So if your at the end of your trail and you sit and ponder what the blaze may be look around and play what does that cloud look like game ….tarry scantt… with the landscape …and when you start to notice whats around you and the lights in your head turn on a hole new world of an ancient unknown civilization will sudenly appear. ….marvel gaze…..this alone is a treasure in itself.

      • Of course, my imagination on what I think it should look like will probably end up letting me walk right past the real hiding spot.

  11. One of my many,many notes highlights a Newsweek statement by Forrest “They are in the dark, just like the treasure chest.” 🙂
    I don’t remember when this was said, maybe Dal can help.

      • “They’re in the dark,” he said, just like his treasure chest. But only for now.”

        Which one is ‘temporarily’ in the dark? Can we think of ways that the chest might go from being in the dark to out of the dark?
        Was this stated at late evening time?
        Will the chest rise from the darkness of the depths of waters after something in its materials changes with time?
        Will a glacier recede far enough to let the searcher see it? Ugh.

        Ridiculous ideas perhaps but you all can do better if interested.

        • This is the exact quote: ““They’re in the dark,” he said, just like his treasure chest. But only for now.”

          Notice that only the first part of the sentence is a quote from Mr. Fenn. The last half of the sentence is conjecture by the writer. and the “they” being spoken of, are the bits and pieces of Indian artifacts that the author picked up – not people, that had been reburied. The second sentence is for emphasis.

          Be careful out there.

    • I enjoyed that old article..

      But to be clear, the author added the part about the chest:

      ‘ “They’re in the dark,” he said, just like his treasure chest. ‘

      • Correct Muset. Forrest did not say the treasure chest was in the dark. It seems to me the phrase ” just like his treasure chest” was an editorial comment made by Tony Dokoupil and besides, Tony did not put that phrase in the quote marks when he quoted Forrest.

        • They all seem to be quoting a SF New Mexican article. In that article Fenn says to the journalist – You (not “they”) are in the dark, just like the treasure.

  12. It’s a needle in a haystack. Special,only to the eye of the beholder.
    Using flashlight and gloves,soon. 🙂

    • Beware of the bears. Although they are mostly afraid of humans, when startled with their young they can be agressive.

      🙂

    • The hiddey spot has a couple of keys and passages that must be found before you can understand the Blaze in its true nature…

      🙂

  13. Muset,

    Yes you are correct i too have a hard time archiving things that i know not to come from Forrest directly or things that are paraphrased. A good article otherwise.

  14. the hidey space … in my opinion, it’s inside a hollow log, covered with brush or behind rocks, and up against a vertical wall.

  15. Not Obsessed, On the previous “Hidey Space” page, you asked: did I “tap” the rock? I felt the rock, & I kind-of scratched it with my fingernail, to be sure it was a rock. You are correct: it really does look man-made. And what’s really weird: it seemed to have the correct dimensions. However, it’s really a rock – a cube shaped rock.

  16. My first crazy hunch about the treasure location was that it was placed inside the oriface of a particular geyser in YNP. I found some old pictures of men standing on the cone of this geyser and dangling a line in to test depth. I abandoned the idea quickly, but it still nags at me a little. If I spent enough time in YNP as a kid I don’t know if I could have resisted taking a peek?

  17. Forrest tells what he did, he ‘ secret it ‘ whatever that means , on page 129

  18. IMO… I’m in the Zaphod boat with this thread. I do believe the TC is in the open. IMO, I may have walked right by it. I was too focused on looking for something else at the time. I came back with a search memento though. Sad, but true.

  19. Searcher Steve, I don’t know if you have read my solve, “Others Adventure” “A Redneck From Texas….” but the rock ledge above the bush that I hoped to be the hiding place would be a perfect place to sit back and enjoy the View of Firehole Falls (my water high) for an hour or for eternity. IMO of course.

  20. Jake; Searcher Steve:

    You’re getting very close. When I suggested the TC was in the “open”, as Jake commented, it is vulnerable to the elements, hence my comment about dirt, grasses and patina but protected enough to be safe and secure for decades but clearly visible. Remember, it’s a certain resting place for F’s bones. Like Steve’s comment, a magnificent place with a view where “I would see mountains, forests, animals, etc. etc.”. And from seeing the blaze, “Look Quickly Down”. How far that might be is speculation. But I believe this is a very special, reverent location found by F many years ago. All of course, in my very humble opinion.

    • I think Forrest used the word “exposed”.
      This can be tricky.
      Everything is exposed to something.
      Exposed to air, water, sun light, dirt, rocks.
      It could be in the open, but I don’t think so.
      Although you make a good point Skip, if in the open would eventually get covered anyway in time.

      Why would you have to look QUICKLY down?
      Why can’t I look slowly down? Will I not find it if I don’t follow the instructions precisely?
      He didn’t have to put any word in between look & down, but he did, for a reason.
      In my quick opinion.

      • Jake,

        Ask yourself what does it mean to “look quickly down”, not why must I look quickly down.

        • Litterate One- look quickly down is three words that mean something else….not homophoneious but synonophones- “see rapids below”

          • ” Ask yourself what does it mean to “look quickly down”, not why must I look quickly down. ”

            I only look quickly down if my rational fear of heights kicks in. I’d rather not look down because its uncomfortable.

            Anybody know if Forrest doesn’t like heights?

          • I don’t think FF wants us to literally look quickly down. I think we need to find a word that means “look quickly down” and then look at the other meanings of that word. I think I know the word and the alternate meaning it has.

          • Searcher Steve,

            Puzzled is learning to fish, and is on the write track. Throughout the poem it is wise to look for other meanings of words, otherwise known as synonyms, sometimes we must also research idioms. Forrest ever the teacher and wordsmith uses his knowlege and poetic liberalism (that will upset ff) to conceal his interpretation in plain sight.

            ———————————————————————-

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXupxL4ovmY

            i looked up the meaning of words. you know we really don’t know what some of our words mean. for instance what does the word several mean? s-e-v-e-r-a-l … what does that mean?

            many

            no. it means more than two, but not many more than two. isn’t that a way to define a word? more than two, but not many

            so, i doubt that anyone in this room knows that. i mean, i wouldn’t know it except i’m a writer and sometimes i look things up. and there are lots of words in the english language that we can’t define and consequently we use them erroneously.

            ———————————————————————

            “Fish on!”

          • Now wait aminute. You’ve got me turned around. Explain another way or again please.

          • My plea or below as to Patty Lane. synonophones. Help from any or all will be accepted. I thought look quickly down Might mean to use a Metal Detector.

          • Musstag- It is my very firm opinion that the solve can be found by using outside resources to understand the words and phrases in the poem. I believe dictionaries or thesaurus (the word “treasure” comes from the word thesaurus) and other sources can help us determine the root of words, the ancient and less common definitions, synonyms, metaphors, etc. I believe there is a method to this madness. If we can document our reasoning with a source that proves an ancient word meaning or other information about the words, then we will solve this poem. There should be no guessing. For example (not intended to put down you idea-just trying to illustrate), there is no definition anywhere that suggests a metal detector is implied in”look quickly down”. It is creative. But I really feel that all the words and phrases can be researched and we can come to learn more about the lesser known ideas related to the words FF used. Each step should involve research with no guessing. I hope I have helped.

          • Musstag,

            We could give you the answer but then you learn nothing from it, you’ll take it for granted and then leave it in the rain to rust away. You must earn it.

            “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for life”

            Forrest is teaching us all to fish, and to grab every banana. We should aspire to the same.

        • To me, it means to “look (under cold water, hold your breath which you cannot take your time to do. It must be done quickly) down”
          Which brings me to the next line in the poem.
          But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
          (Don’t wait around, your cold & wet, get out of there quickly! Or you may become hypothermic.)
          Well, that’s one of my crazy ideas.

          So what does it mean to you or anyone else L1?

          • Jake,

            I believe that line could have an opposing meaning for one who believed the blaze was a physical marker at the end and one who did not.

            We different ideas and that is OK. I would rather see you come to the conclusion that I have on your own because then it would be your idea and not one that someone else implanted.

            Jake you and I, I believe may be in the same region. I would enjoy meeting you and talking over a beer or coffee some time.

          • L1,
            Are you saying that the blaze is not physical?
            Existing in a form that you cannot touch or see?
            I keep my mind open for everything, but can’t think of everything.

            It’s good that people have different ideas, it’s what makes us unique.
            I cannot come to the same conclusion as you or others at times without being inside there heads unless they share there thoughts as most do here.

            I hope to be in Montana on Flag Day smelling a hint of cinnamon. If we are in the same region, the first beverage is on me & I enjoy your cerebral interaction.

          • oz10,

            Sure, but i believe Jake’s question was why was quickly inserted in the line. I then asked Jake to not question why, but to question what does “look quickly down” mean. I don’t want to impose my theory on what it means to me as i would rather one come to their own conclusion.

            “Give a man a fish…….”

          • “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.”

            I think Forrest is trying to teach all of us how to fish & enjoy the environment along the way. Even the little girl from India, unfortunately, she just can’t cast that far, but can still enjoy the experience.

        • We may have the same idea of the blaze, but for now mine is hanging by a thread…

          • oz10,

            “BELIEVE” I know it sounds like a cat poster but its true!

            All our theories hang by a thread my friend. I did see your post and all i can say is I’m speechless.

          • Lots & lots of threads to hang from.
            I see a big ball of tangled threads rolling down the hill.
            It will come to rest where the treasure is.

        • Reading some of these comments gave a new line of thought: off the wall, but what about a barricade at the end of a trail or road. It could definitely be a marker or blaze, and it could be on the edge of a drop off where you could look quickly down. “Look Out Point” “Scenic Overlook” “Danger” etc. signs. Most people look out and not down. Open for comments or thoughts. IMO

        • Quick = fast
          Quick = hold tightly, ie: quicksand
          Quick = bone, ie: cut to the quick
          Quick = sharp angle, ie: quick corner in the road – turn quick

          With Mr. Fenn’s known propensity to blur the lines concerning the definition or use of words, one cannot ignore any of the meanings of the word quick – or quickly.

  21. LiterateOne

    I too have a very unique interpretation of what “Look quickly down” means.

    It was my KEY to solving the final clue. I will know saturday if my interpretation
    is correct or not.

    I will share later

    Good luck to all in their searches, and STAY SAFE

    JD

    • JD,

      Good luck my friend. Let us put this thing to rest, and go in peace.

    • I hope you share later.
      I’m not just talking about a buck here.

      Good luck & don’t get stuck in this rabbit hole.
      The poem is like a giant sponge the size of the Rockies.

      I think I may just focus on trying to figure out π.

      There’s also the Millennium Prize problems you could solve.

  22. Hello Litterate One,

    You said to Jake: The blaze is in the poem, so it much like a physical feature can and will last just as long. Line 13 of the poem is in the past tense, so in my opinion you confidentially know exactly where you are going, to the trove not the blaze.

    I agree 100% with YO…. “you confidently know exactly where you are going, to the trove and not the blaze.”

    I personally did not find the blaze in the poem, but somewhere else.

    Happy Hunting

  23. Kedar’s Mom,

    “The world is full of magic things, patiently waiting for our senses to grow sharper.”

      • Jake,

        All of them, but i believe our sense of adventure will be best suited.

        • LitterateOne, don’t forget to add a generous dose of common to that sense.

          So according to ff the poem is straight forward, written in order, contiguous that moves one closer to the TC with each correct solution, ff wrote it and the Thrill with such profundity? So why would he say following “heavy loads, and water high” which IMO could and probably is man made, would the blaze necessarily require you to be wise? For that matter even be an object in nature, ie some natural formation?

          Which means it could be man made could it not?

          Thoughts?

          Tom T

          • Uncommon sense #12,

            “So why would he say following “heavy loads, and water high” which IMO could and probably is man made.”
            That’s a good valid question.
            I don’t see the connection to it being man made although the poem is.
            Just my common sense.

          • Tom Terrific,

            Yes thanks for the common sense addition, it is a forgotten virtue. I believe you and I may disagree on “heavy loads and water high” and that is OK. I do believe however, that one must have been wise to get from the correct WWWH to water high and in doing so has found the true trail. I do not believe any part of the poem to be man made outside of the chest and it’s contents.

          • In my humble opinion;

            Heavy Loads is man made, but not in the sense that most people perceive it.

            Water high is not man made. IMHO

            Only time will tell.

            Good luck to all searchers
            and STAY SAFE

            JD

          • I don’t think any of the clues are manmade. Wondering if anyone else has discovered as they study word definitions, that at least 3 words in the poem have an alternate definition which names a geological feature (3 different distinct geological features). And, at least 3 words have an alternate definition that references time.

  24. Oh one more thought, has anyone ever asked if some of his clues require another language to understand and interpret their actual (location) geographic meaning? Like French, Spanish, Native American tongue etc? A word that comes to mind might be a river’s name that is in a canyon, do I need say down?

    Tom T

    • Hello Tom Terrific. If I remember correctly, I believe you may have brought this subject up before. Did you get a response to this question from Mr. Fenn?

      • pdenver, no not even a Le Peep nor una susurro o secreto, que hizo el¿ Nada decir el
        señor Forrest. If ff tells us the answer to this it may be a very very faint whisper.

        Tom T

        • Allô Tom. Peut-être que vous pourriez lui demander en français. Non, il est à nous de decider. Il est le frisson de la chasse, après tout. 🙂

          • Hello Tom . Perhaps you could ask him in French. No, it is for us to decide . It is the thrill of the hunt , after all.

            Nous pouvons demander ff de l’aide et des conseils , car il a créé le Thrill et lui aussi aime la chasse

            Tom T

          • F “Allô” W… Or double “u” which is right after double “t” for Tom Terrific… I think he is saying Hi to you Tom!

      • The main reason I think ff has included the description of man made objects in his poem clues is because almost every object he reveries, except that mammoth dig, is a man made something, ie arrowheads, pottery, poetry, fishing flies, paintings, books, peace pipes, etc, so why must we believe the heavy loads and water high, or even the blaze are or “must be” a natural phenomena, shucks, ff says that most of the clues he describes were here when he was a kid right? I hold the opinion, that so were many if not most of his treasures were as well, he just had not discovered/acquired them yet.

        Meaning those clues were only awaiting his description of the 9 objects, obviously some natural, as a canyon is natural and down means nothing unless it means south too because all canyons go down somewhere right? However saying all clues MUST be natural is tantamount to saying all cats are animals, therefore all animals are cats, that’s crazy, so all cats have 9 lives, then all 9 clues are therefore natural, correct? That too is crazy.

        So clues do not necessarily have to be natural, just geographic locations, such may be the case for the blaze and heavy loads and water high. So what this says to me is that the Hidey spot is an actual place, and probably natural but not all clues are…..natural.

        Does anyone believe go in peace to be about something natural?

        Does anyone doubt that brave and in the wood is anything if it is not natural?

        I believe there is a difference which is distinct in each clue, it does not just jump off the page when you read it, no, it whispers.

        Tom T

        • “Does anyone believe go in peace to be about something natural?”
          -No & I don’t see this as a clue.

          “Does anyone doubt that brave and in the wood is anything if it is not natural?”
          -Wood is natural & don’t see this as a clue.

          I do see one of the 9 clues being man made.

          • That is one way to see it. Another way will be like a ‘dead end’, it could be both man made by design (like a border line) or natural like a river that marks the border between 2 states.

          • Hiking trails usually dead end (if not loops) for one of two reasons, a natural barrier (cliff, water, steep incline) or because is at the end or close to the end of the Park’s land jurisdiction.

            Fenns’ comment on ‘there is no human trail’ in close proximity is interesting to me. I have a feeling (just mine) that to get to the hidey space you have to stray off a trail somewhere, yes maybe close to the end of it depending on how you read the poem, and then walk out there. This is of interest because I used to do that all the time when I was a curious kid around the rivers and hills, you have to if you want to find the perfect hiding location or a place never seen before.

            As an adult hardly ever. When I take my kids fishing we stay on the trails and they are instructed to use the trails if something were to happen to me. I am sure this is one of the reasons why so many search those areas of Fs’ childhood around Yellowstone.

          • Yes, I agree Oz,
            It would only make sense to me if you get off the trail & follow the creek up until you cannot go any further.

            I think Forrest said something like:
            “Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximity to where I hid the treasure.f ”

            I believe the trail is roughly 200′ away from my creek.

          • Yes, you know 200 feet is not a bad walk at all. If you find it there all those who where within the ‘200 are going to be very sad.

            As long as that is where your blaze is taking you, you are in the right place. But don’t listen to me…

          • Well, you can’t actually get the treasure from being 200′ away on the trail. The treasure is in a canyon & the trail is above. So, I will have to get off the trail before the creek turns into a canyon. Work my way into the canyon until I cannot go any further. The walking distance is just under 2 miles from where you park your vehicle to where I think it is. I will have waders & hopefully most of the spring runoff is done, because you may not be able to get in there during high runoff. So the chest is protected by ice & snow in the winter & high water during spring. So I hope my timing is right. All my opinion.

          • I am sure you are not forgetting the rule about ‘don’t go where an 80 year old can’t go’ and I don’t think he meant by parachute…

          • I knew you were gonna say that.
            The human trail is in descent shape as long as it isn’t too wet. I will stay on the trail for about a mile & a half, then get in the creek bed which if the water flow is low, it should not be much of a challenge, just gravel & some larger rocks here & there to avoid. This part of the trek is only about 1500′. The total elevation climb is only about 350′ spread out under 2 miles. Yes, I think he hid it here in the summer in dry conditions. It’s quite doable for that 80 year old man, making 2 trips in an afternoon.

          • There are a couple of things Forrest said that makes me doubt my solve.

            “If I were standing where the treasure chest is, I’d see trees, I’d see MOUNTAINS, I’d see animals, I’d smell wonderful smells of pine needles or pinion nuts, SAGEBRUSH, and I know the treasure chest is wet.”

            I would not see mountains because I’m in a small canyon, unless you consider the walls part of a mountain. I don’t think I would smell Sagebrush because there is no sagebrush in this confined area that I know of.

            Although he also said:
            “That video didn’t have any clues.”

  25. I wanted to share that THE SANTA FE INTERVIEWS hold much promise as to how the TC is disguised and hidden in plain site. Somewhere…..Forrest on Video talking about a lost Spanish Manuscript….and how it was maybe hidden. On the same video I believe it is where he is running his hand thru small piles of ancient pottery shards…..talking about all the shards at Abiquiu. I just had those thoughts,
    flash back if you will about the description of how the manuscript may have been hidden. hidden.

  26. I am sure that the “Hidey Space” is in the water, behind a “Tarry Scant”.

    I will know today if I am right or wrong.

    I have my Humble Pie baking in the oven right now, but do not think that
    it will be eaten by me. We shall see.

    All said is IMO, of course

    Good luck to all searchers, and STAY SAFE

    JD

    • If your not going to be eating humble pie today, then your oven must be as big as a house. There are allot of mouths to feed here.

      Good luck JD, I will send you some Maalox later on.

    • JD, I have 2 questions. Are you waiting for a map in the mail? And what is “tarry scant” mean that you are using as a noun?

    • JD – best to you in your adventure and search. Be safe! May nature dazzle you with her jewels that wait to be discovered too! Look forward to hearing about your day. Fly JD, fly!

    • Good Luck. I may be able to help you if you are unable to find today,if you are in the same area as myself. You may find a lil something else close to the spot. email me @ tbaydampiers@shaw.ca to discuss if you are interested. Stay safe,Diver

  27. Good luck JD. Safe travels sir.
    Today may be the day. Bring indulgence home old chap.

  28. JD – today! This is exciting. This will be the first time I can follow someone through the blog as they head out since I am NTTC.

    Good luck and be safe.

  29. Nothing beats confidence when searching for treasures in life!

    Great luck to you, JD

  30. Here’s a great article exploring the idea of the “elevation” that sage brush grow in. Also Pinyon Pines. This might give some insight on the areas to search; rather than a forest which is heavily wooded. Forrest also said he drove his car and parked and walked: no human trails. Does this mean it is not in a National Park or Forrest? as he would have had to walk some trail to the end? I cannot quote; but he also said in a video; he sought out an attorney’s advice; and the Gold is yours to keep. With this in mind; I would sway away from a National Park or National Forest and Indian Lands; What is left? A creek in a Canyon with a great view of Sage Brush and Pine Scent. JMHO. http://www.westernexplorers.us/PinyonPine.pdf “They generally lie between
    4500 to 6500 feet (1370 to 2000 m) in
    elevation, above the deserts, grasslands and
    sagebrush, and below mountain forests, into
    which they merge.” Here the article says Pinyons are found above sage brush; which tells us the elevation of Sage Brush. .

    • Debi,
      “no human trails”
      I hope this will help.
      “There isn’t a human trail in very close proximity to where I hid the treasure.f ”
      Please note there are many trails in National Parks & Forests.
      Thanks Debi,
      I can smell the Sage now.

    • I have studied the elevation of Pinyons and the locations where they grow. The only problem is that FF actually said he smelled pine OR pinyin nuts. So it’s possible there were no Pinyons. But it’s also possible there were Pinyons. This clue does not help at all. But, there was something in his response that he wished he hadn’t said. What else could he be referring to?

      • What about sage and the elevation it thrives. You have to take this in text with all the other statements I shared.

      • I’ve thought about this statement and have read that there was probably things said during the interview that weren’t put in the video and that maybe he was referring to something said then.. I don’t know if this is fact though. IMO I think that he was referring to when he said ‘if he was standing where the chest is’, he didn’t say ‘if I was standing by the chest or near the chest or next to the chest’. So I think that was another way of saying that it is buried/hidden and IMO not in a river and not in a tree and not in plain sight or behind a tree or in a cave. I guess that eliminates a lot of places. Sweet 😉

    • Hi Debi, Puzzled and alopes – FYI, pinon nuts have no discernable smell to the normal human nose. The pinecones the nuts are in and tree they come from, yes. But it’s an odd thing to say “…I’d smell pinon nuts…” So that makes me wonder if ff realized he’d mis-spoke and that’s what he wished he hadn’t said because maybe he let a tell slip by, meaning pinon trees are near the TC. With very few exceptions, pinons only grow in northern NM and southern CO, and in elevations b/t about 4000 (farther north) and 8000 (farther south, like around SFe).

      alopes’ thought about the “if he was standing where the chest is” is a good, too. Truth is, that whole vid was edited, so who knows what he was referring to. All I know is that pinon nuts don’t have a smell.

      • From Feb 2015 SFeNM:
        Fenn states in the video that if he were standing near the treasure, “I’d smell wonderful smells, of pine needles or piñon nuts or sagebrush.” But in an interview with The New Mexican, Fenn said, “That video didn’t have any clues. It might influence some people to come to New Mexico, but I don’t want to give the impression that I am giving that as a clue because I am not.” And he said he erred in mentioning piñon nuts. He really meant pine needles.

        OK then, seems just generic pines and sage brush. Where do those 2 things overlap? Doesn’t help much. Sorry.

      • Melanie- That is very interesting that Pinyon nuts don’t have a smell. I didn’t know that. And thanks for sharing the follow up video which I had not seen or heard of. Good info.

        • Well, if you toast and crush pinon nuts they have a wonderful smell and taste even better, but you wouldn’t get that sense just walking around in the outdoors.

          Think of it..cashews, peanuts, filberts, whatever. Nuts don’t really have a smell in their naked state.

          Personally, in that video snippet, I think ff got caught up in reflecting upon an idyl of a beautiful day spent in the Rocky Mountains. Maybe he was munching on roasted pinon nuts in the golden glow of an autumn afternoon….makes total sense to me.

      • Hi, Melanie. I didn’t know that pinon nuts did not have a discernible odor. That’s a fun fact for me ;). That could be what he meant to not say, and if I remember correctly, he retracted that statement later. One guess is as good as the other.

        • Maybe my nose is more sensitive than others. Piñon (pine nuts) definitely has a scent. I grew up in Taos and every time someone has piñon sitting in a bowl, I can smell it. I wonder if any of us have smelled moisture in the air. If so, then I would say water has a scent as well. When you smell air freshener called ocean breeze, are they trying to mimic the scent of water, salt, fish, or any combination of the three? Now that’s a little to think about, right f?

          • Yes, you are correct – when you’ve got a bunch of pinon in a bowl, it will surely have a scent. I meant if you, like ff, were walking around in the open wilderness of a pinon/juniper/ponderosa forest (which I do every day) you’d get no distinctive smell of the pinon nut. I get the pine smell of the pinon and ponderosas, the slight vanilla scent of the ponderosa bark, the resiny smell of the junipers and even the salty smell of their pollen. But I never smell the nuts of the pinon in the wild, even if I crush a pinecone underfoot.

            And after a rain, like this morning, even the dirt gives off a delicious aroma!

  31. It’s in an elevation of Sage: below the Pinyon Trees and Wooded Forests. Of course he can smell the pines; But Sage is an important clue for the elevation of the creek in a Canyon.

  32. Well, we are back from looking in our “Hidey Space.” Regretfully, the
    ice was still too thick, could not lopok in the exact spot that I feel the treasure is hidden..

    We will return in two weeks. Hope all of the ice melts by then.

    Has a GREAT adventure though.

    JD

    • Hello JD. Sorry to hear your search didn’t go as you hoped. Happy to hear you had a great adventure. That is what’s most important.

    • Glad your trip was safe. It’s encouraging that after being near to your treasure spot, you still feel it’s the right spot!. Hope you find it in two weeks. Anxiously waiting to hear how it goes in two weeks

    • I’m sorry it didn’t go so well for you squirt (JD). Better luck next time. Among a few other bloggers, I am really rooting for you to find the treasure. That is something I like about this chase and this blog. We are all searching for one thing and we all want to be the one to find it, but at the same time we all sincerely wish the next searcher the absolute best. That is a thrill in itself. We ALL deserve a little treasure in our lives. I think whoever finds this chest should host Fennboree. Everybody in this chase wants to see it at least once. I think it would be cool to see it.
      Well, better luck next time sir. Travel safely.

  33. Pondering over the line “Begin it where warm water halts” I’ve come to the conclusion that because there are so many places in which we can presume would be a fit for this line, that Forrest is specifying a place that is unique in its’ water component. To which I would offer, a place in which he would be knowledgeable based on his own experiences.

    Forrest was a pilot. He attended flight school and likely survival school as well. He would have trained in water survival (survival at sea). He has always said that we would find our answers in his TTOTC. Thus, we have the story of his combat flights (Air Force).

    Now what is it that he would have knowledge of? The difference in the temperature of fresh and salt water. Fresh water feels colder than sea water at the same temperature. Since we’re not searching for the treasure at sea, the conditions would have to be available on land.

    Desalination plants located along rivers which ‘halt’ warm water, de-salt (desalinate) it and then let it resume along its’ way.

    This satisfies our need to quantify both the ‘warm’ and ‘halt’ issues. But, this is after all, only my opinion.

    • Hello germanguy. Thank you for your post. I’ve enjoyed what you had to say and it’s something to consider. It’s been quite some time since I’ve seen you comment.

    • Germanguy, take it one step further. Where do the cold waters of the Rockies mix with the warm waters of the ocean?

    • germanguy- Thank you for your comments. They were interesting to me because of some info I have learned in the last week. You mention salt water. Did you know that the letters in “waters halt” can be rearranged (its an anagram) to create the word “saltwater”. Is this just coincidence? Or does this tie to your comment about salt water being colder than fresh water at the same temperature. Could this anagram really be a coincidence? It seems like a huge hint!

      I had never heard of the Great Divide Basin and when I read about it, I was fascinated. It is a basin that sits right on the continental divide. There are several interesting things about it. For one thing, the basin receives almost no rain at all. What little rain it does get, never flows outside the basin. It is a

      Wikipedia says the following about the Great Divide Basin
      “The Great Divide Basin or Great Divide Closed Basin is an area of land in Wyoming’s Red Desert (United States) where none of the water falling as rain to the ground drains into any ocean, directly or indirectly. It is therefore considered an endorheic basin, and it adjoins the Continental Divide in southern Wyoming.”

      What little rain falls here runs into the basin to form an ephemeral lake that then drys out leaving some SALT. Over countless years, it has left a dry SALT lake bed.

      It seems that this basin could be a place that “warm waters halt” as the rain that falls here never leaves the basin except through evaporation.

      This basin is very remote and much of it is undiscovered. You have to get a permit to enter the basin. There are many unique land features in the basin. Parts of it are stunningly beautiful!
      There are native American ruins, petroglyphs, fossils, and unique land formations.

      I also read somewhere that there is a place in this basin where the largest trout have been caught.

      I’ve kind of been looking at this basin. I’m fascinated by it and think it would be a very fun place to explore.

      So anyway; your comments about salt are quite interesting if you consider that “waters halt” could have the letters rearranged and become “saltwater”. Something to look into for sure!

      • Hi Puzzled, I have been there to the basin and sis explore all over and it is a fabulous place, but a word of warning, you definitely will need a 4 wheel drive vehicle that sits up a ways. Not many people go out there. Make sure to have a gps device with you as well because the “roads” aren’t marked very well and some not at all. But you will see things like no where else and many animals. Oh, and one last thing, there is no “h” in salt water and there is in waters halt. Good luck to you.

      • puzzled wrote;
        “For one thing, the basin [Red Desert in Wyoming] receives almost no rain at all.”
        —————————————-
        So then we would not expect the TC to get “wet”, as FF apparently said it did.

        If the TC is in some canyon where water would get the chest “wet”, then how would FF be able to see the mountains, down in some hole?

        In other words, it’s gonna be tough finding a place in the Red Desert where you have a TC that’s both “wet” and with good views of mountains.

        Ken

        • Ken- There are wet areas in the basin. It’s also possible that it was raining on the day FF said the TC was wet. Doesn’t mean it is wet all the time. That hint could be a red herring. I don’t think that hint is very reliable.

          • But I can’t wonder if Forrest is doing the interview in Santa Fe that he sounded sure it’s wet! To me IMO that it sounds like he knows it’s wet like all time time!

            If you leave something out in the woods that if it rains its will GET wet but to be sure it’s wet right this second with no rain it sounds like it’s in a water source IMO

  34. Thanks to all of the well-wishers. The trip was great. nine of us in total. Truly a Family affair…all getting out into the wilderness. WHAT FUN WE HAD.

    Good luck to all searchers, and STAY SAFE

    JD

  35. Carolyn

    I am searching in Wyoming, no where near YNP.

    I live in Idaho

    Good luck and Stay Safe

    JD

    • JD – My son and I went through part of ID last month. Never been there before. After we left the mountains, we saw areas that had wheat fields much like KS. It was a nice drive and I would like to go back some day to enjoy the scenery a bit more.

    • I’m in Texas JD so u r a lot closer than I am. So it’s still icy n snowy there, huh. Here it’s spring and beautiful and warm. Stay safe and good luck.

  36. Yes, it is a very pretty state. When the wheat fields are ready for harvest, they are spectacular to see. We have more “White Water” than any other state.

    Our mountains are some of the most beautiful. Sorry Idaho is no longer on the “search” list.

    Glad you enjoyed your trip – Come again!

    JD

  37. great answers everyone..IMO the TC is not hidden in a creek, river, cave, or behind a waterfall (I like that idea), but in the woods..It is not completely buried but at least one third buried so it does not move by the weather or animal..This is why you maybe need to wear gloves because you will get dirty digging it out..The Blaze is simple to me..Yes you can be in the general area of the TC but if you do not know what the blaze is you will walk right by it..That is why some have walked right by because they could not see the blaze and why because they where not wise..no paddle up your creek
    does not have to be a creek..

    • … “in the woods” ?

      But surely there must be some variation in the topography to differentiate the TC place from some other place six feet away, or a quarter mile away.

      Simply saying it’s “in the woods” sounds like a place with uniform topography, vegetation, and views. Why that particular one-foot square spot? Why not six feet to the left or ten feet to the right, or a quarter mile deeper “in the woods”. What’s the appeal of such a nondescript spot?

      Ken

  38. Ken, IMO the TC could be in large area but small area…the place I like is where standing you can see the beautiful mountain peaks, smell of pine needles, animals, sagebrush, and water

  39. Its in a big ol patch of stinging nettle. Hence the need for gloves. and you’ll need lots of ice to keep the swelling down. IMO of course 😉

  40. I hate to give too much away, but what the heck. I believe its elevated above the meadow floor, under the ground vegetation with the ” ” flower. You may also have to slip through “something” before you can get to that area, but you can see it from above when you look down, after seeing this “specific pattern” in the cliffs across the canyon. (Hope this helps a good person.)

  41. This is all IMO: I believe the treasure chest is in a hole in a rock outcropping that has petroglyphs on the rocks “Is the blaze one single object?” “In a word–yes”. pEtroglYphS. This rock-outcropping is along the side of a canyon 200 ft from the trail as you walk back a trail through the canyon. “People have been within 200 feet of the treasure.” “There’s no human trail in very close proximity”. The canyon may or may not be wide. But you have to look to the side of the trail “What if I was looking so far ahead that I neglected to notice what was beside me.” There are sage brush along the canyon floor, and pine trees and piñon trees on the canyon sides, some growing in amongst the rocks in the rock-outcropping. There is a nice little area that is slightly elevated from the canyon floor, not steep to get to. There’s a beautiful tree or trees where a person’s body could nestle in and not be seen by anyone hiking the trail which is 200 feet away. From this spot you can still see and smell the sage brush, as well as the pine needles because you are sitting beneath a pine/juniper tree/trees. “It (the treasure) is not in a tree but surrounded by trees.” “I will rest through time and space, pillowed down and scented in”. “I would rather go into the silent mountains on a warm sunny day, sit under a tree where the air is fresh and the smell of nature is all around, and let my body slowly decay into the soil.” I found this exact area in La Jara Canyon off of FR5 off of the southern stretch of The Enchanted Circle. I searched this rock-outcropping so many times, it was ridiculous. Oh, there were no petroglyphs on this particular rock-outcropping…so now I’m searching for the same kind of place…with petroglyphs. With WWWH and hoB all close by.

    • Cmeachum- I suspect you are correct abt petroglyphs being involved. Isn’t it possible that “ever drawing” could be a petroglyph (a drawing that has endured time)? I think the narrow opening is a slot canyon. I’m curious what your HOB is.

      • Puzzled, I love your idea that “ever drawing” is petroglyphs. My hoB changes with the area I go to. The poem is so generic we can massage the clues to fit many places. In the post above, my hoB was the Taos Pueblo. The entire area along Hwy 64 starting at Palo Flechado Pass and “taking it in the canyon down (Taos Canyon) and side canyons fits the clues so well, as well as so many of his extra “hints”. I spent almost a year searching that entire area with a fine tooth comb. Then I just had to accept the fact the treasure isn’t hidden in that area, so I moved on. But it doesn’t mean it’s not there…I may not have looked “AT” it, only near it. If someone finds Fenn’s treasure chest there, I’ll probably jump off that rock outcropping and kill myself…NO, I won’t, just kidding. I actually wish all the BOTG searchers the best of luck in hoping someone finds it in their search area, regardless where or what state it’s at.

        • Cmeacum- interesting that you have searched the Taos area. I haven’t done a ground search yet because I’m convinced that a person will be able to work out the poem and be certain before going to the treasure. I have spent many many hours considering the,Taos area. I actually have several areas that I am working on (researching). Another one is not in NM but has direct ties to Taos. Wow! A whole year searching there? Your are dedicated.

        • Cynthia,
          Where I come from,you can lift parts of basalt up and put it right back in,perfectly to fit. 🙂
          You could be standing right on top of it and not know it.
          I agree with petroglyphs as the blaze. You won’t be able to see it unless you are in the right place. ” I see “animals” and smell pine needles,sage.” 🙂
          This is all my opinion .

    • Cynthia – that sure seems possible and fits well with those ff quotes. And Puzzled’s idea of the “ever drawing” is a good fit, too. Maybe the glyph is on the left/nigh wall of the canyon?

    • Hello Lia. Thank you for posting this link. I’ve viewed it several times last night because I thought it was so interesting to learn about the area. I had no idea. My family and I have driven by the area numerous times heading to Yellowstone and I never knew. I thought of it as a “vast area of nothing.” Boy, was I wrong. I would love to find a Clovis point. The green one she held in her hand is beautiful.

    • Thanks Lia,
      I’ve worked a solution from this WWWH location for some time now. I just haven’t had anything “confirm” I’m on the right path.

      • Arca,

        Go back to the poem, start at the beginning, if you haven’t gotten the first clue nailed down you might as well stay home and play canasta. Once you have the first clue figuring out WWWH will become easier.

        • Wwwh is the first clue. There are some questions to ponder about other clues though. Where is the last clue? Anyone know?

          • Will,

            As Forrest has said,

            “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe.”

            There is an entire stanza before “Begin it where warm waters halt,” to ignore the information in it is just expensive folly.

  42. ……….the end is ever “drawing nigh”…..IMO…..”drawing nigh” confirms that there is some type of pictograph or petroglyph near or nigh. It may well be that this is also THE BLAZE!!!! If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, Look quickly down, your quest to cease.

    Question to all…..are there many known petroglyphs on the Rio Chama. The Rio Ojo Caliente halts at the Rio Chama ??? This seems like WWWH.

    As it relates to wet or dry……All land is either public or private…you have National Forrest, Indian Land, National Parks, State Parks, National Monuments.

    On “Navigable Rivers” the Federal Government has passed laws (first laws passed by the Continental Congress) anywhere between the waters edge and the “High Water Mark” is considered PUBLIC on Navigable Rivers. Imagine floating down the Rio Chama and seeing a petroglyph…..you are moving fast in a kayak….once you see the glyph……looking quickly down in the water.

    Also IMO the home of Brown may well be CHRIST IN THE DESERT MONASTERY…..on the RIO CHAMA. Above here there is HEAVY LOADS and WATER HIGH (El Vado Dam)

    Now get this……The Monks make beer….How bout a “Six Pack” of ABBY BEER after you find the TC.

    • Guy Michael, You asked if there are known petroglyphs along the Rio Chama, and you mentioned Christ in the Desert Monastery as being hoB. That’s where the Fennboree was held last year…in a campground along the river about a mile from the Monastery. Anyway, I hope Desertphile sees your comment. He lives near there and has searched the Rio Chama / Canyon thoroughly. Other searchers have too but I can’t remember their names. He might know of petroglyphs. I think he has his own website which you might be able to find if you google Desertphile. The beer the monks make is called Monk Ale, I believe. You can’t buy it at the Monastery anymore but you can buy it at Bode’s store in Abiquiu. cynthia

    • Yes, but they can’t sell it on site.I had to buy it from a gas station on the main hwy. They had a small shrine west down the road, called the burning Bush as I recall

  43. Hey guys, glad you liked the Great Basin video. Those tiger striped, and green chert Clovis points were amazing. By the way Guy Michael, I love your monks and beer = six pack! Someone yesterday posted info on ‘ab-ductive’ reasoning which is also clever with respect to the six pack.

    I’m not following the blogs much these days, only a couple of threads. Hope I’m not missing too much. Best to all this search season.

  44. I think caves – or recesses in rock faces – or interesting rock formations with holes in them…. might seem like logical hiding places, but those are just the kind of place every curious kid (or adult) is going to explore.
    Someone knowing nothing about the poem or FF could well stumble upon the chest if it were hidden in a cave – just because they would be drawn to the cave. Forest said finding the chest would take following the clues….and would not be found by accident – so I believe the chest is hidden in a less dramatic place…..say at the base of a thick juniper tree – where there are many thick juniper trees. Finding the “blaze” directs you to the right tree…..which would otherwise not draw your attention to it.

  45. Where “warm” waters halt; or where “warm waters” halt have two different meanings. FF might not be talking about “warm” – but a cliche for “warm waters.”
    And of course he uses Thesaurus to mingle in other meanings. This is for us to figure out what the true meaning of WWWH. JMHO

    • debi,

      Yes to think that where those slow shallow meandering waters turn to white waters as they “take it” in the canyon down, is a possibility.

      • The slow meandering water is a creek and at some point turns to white waters like you suggest. At this junction: “there will be no paddle up your creek.”

  46. Where may be your white waters in the Canyon down? It’s okay if you don’t want to reveal this.

    • Debi,

      I said it was a possibility, I believe if you have the first clue nailed down then WWWH will become more evident.

      “They do not know that it is the chase, and not the quarry, which they seek.” Blaise Pascal.

      “It’s the Thrill of the Chase, it’s the thrill in doing it yourself” Forrest Fenn.

  47. Carolyn;

    Have been reading old posts. You asked, “JD, I have 2 questions. Are you waiting for a map in the mail? And what is “tarry scant” mean that you are using as a noun?

    No, I am not waiting for a map in the mail, I am waiting for ice to melt.

    Question #2: Tarry = Blackish – like tar
    Scant = a slab of stone (usually sawn on two sides) but could be like a flagstone.

    Look on page 95 of TTOTC, Forrest is holding a “Marker” that could be called a “Tarry scant”

    Hope this helps.

    Good luck in your search – STAY SAFE

    JD

    • Thank you JD for your answers. Can’t wait to hear about your trip after the ice melts. I saw the picture you were referring to and that was an interesting way to see it. I saw a grave marker, but didn’t know that definition of scant. Stay safe and good luck!

    • @ JD
      You wrote above “Scant = a slab of stone (usually sawn on two sides) but could be like a flagstone.”
      I have never heard this.
      Thank you, that could be very helpful when my boots hit the ground. 😉

  48. Considering we are looking for “the hidey spot”…. I will pose this question here.

    In a list form, what does one need in order to follow a treasure map (considering the poem as a map)?

    * Location
    * Distance
    * Map
    * Path
    * “X” marks the spot

    Anyone want to add or discuss?

    • James (TPZ) I think your attempt above, like all of us searchers is to locate the Hidey Spot on a geographical map using the poem as the guide, to create the path to X correct?

      Since there is another thread on this site called “The word that is KEY” I feel you need just one more step to see more clearly what that would look like, so you asked to add too or discuss, to which I say:

      ALL Maps have a Key or Legend. A map key or legend is included (designed) with the map to unlock it. It gives you the information needed for the map to make sense. Maps often use symbols or colors to represent things, and the map key explains what they mean.

      IMO the Key word to unlock the legend in our poem is the word “HINT” in the first Stanza, ff has said that there are at least 9 clues in the poem but he never mentions hints that may exist in the poem, but he also says that a few searchers are in tight focus with a word that is KEY. he admits there are hints in the Thrill Book, ff even says that his intention was never to mislead and clues of the poem are in contiguous order, and with each solve you are geographically moving closer to the TC. Sometimes it is not what they say, perhaps the key is the hint that is whispered.

      I felt that until I had a solve that matched the 9 clues, and incorporated what I believe are 5 hints from the poem as well, then turning back to the Thrill Book finding its obscure hints, was a little like playing Canasta, just too many possible hints to narrow in on, so I tried to narrow down what I believe are hints in the poem just like using a legend then returning from the book and my solve and finally when the snow melts I will get my 30th hunt underway.

      This has been a 5 year quest and lots of errors, dead ends and worst of all trying to imagine what ff meant so I will leave you with this thought, look at the key word thread and the list of hints I feel are in the poem and tell me what you think. Otherwise you may find 12 to 14 “clues” in the poem, so which ones do you see?

      Tom T

    • Hello James. I like your question.

      All of your treasure map requirements sound like what you find from your Garmin. Unfortunately, you can’t plot it until you know where to start and finish.

      When I think treasure map, imagination, clues and interpretation come to min . Complex then simple. A special map contains more than directions. Use your imagination and start at the beginning.

  49. Hello all! Tomorrow is the big day, we are heading out on the most exciting adventure. Thank You Forrest Fenn for giving us the opportunity of a lifetime!!! I really would like to find Indulgence so I can get another old Bronco. We sold ours last year and I miss rolling topless in my pink (more fushia actually) barbie bronco. It was that color and name when we got it..lol.

    May not have much service, so you guys may have to wait to find out. : )

    • Maybe SL,
      I have thought about this extensively months ago.
      Maybe, when the sun is at it’s highest point on that day, will light the way (blaze) to the treasure.
      I have abandoned this theory for a few reasons.
      Watching Raiders of the Lost Ark was not one of them.
      Cloudy days & only one day or a couple to get it right in the year.
      Just doesn’t make sense to get the kids off the coach for the summer. Too tight a window.
      The sun light diffusion from a far distance through rock crevices. Blurry.
      The sun light through a rock crevice at a short distance would narrow it down too much. You wouldn’t need it.

      But, I will say that it does fit the look quickly part of the poem. You may miss it as the sun goes by & that brings me to another thought. What was all that good info about the blaze?

      • “The person that finds it, is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.”
         
        “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

        Jake, you said; “Cloudy days & only one day or a couple to get it right in the year. Just doesn’t make sense to get the kids off the coach for the summer. Too tight a window.”

        Could that be the reason we need to “Plan” and why the path would not be direct with “no certainty” of the location beforehand?

        If the ‘blaze’ is only usable one or two times a year, that would help with fenns thought of 100 or 1000 years down the road [ unless know beforehand ], why searchers where 200′ from it but not know it, and it sure seems to have a lot of folks of the sofa.

        As far as the sunlight goes… are we to use the light? or the shadow of something? I could picture being on a mountain side looking across the valley or canyon and seeing the peak shadowing the opposite side to a point.

        Fenn was asked, is the blaze in the poem or “only” in the field? he declined to answer… Could it be that the poem leads to that one place to view the shadow? Imagine how many searcher could find that place [the blaze] and still not know beforehand what is needed to be done.

        Fenn did say we had to earn it… what is, too tight a window?

        • Is it logical to have a hunch that you need to be there at only one day of the year?
          The right place at the right time?
          Lets just throw the other 364 days out the window.
          You might as well make it a million years if there’s only one day in the year it will be revealed.
          “*Don’t let logic distract you from the poem”
          So which one is it?
          “The person that finds it, is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.”

          Use your logic. Not in the poem.

          “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

          So how is it you would have the certainty of the time line but yet, you actually need the location.

          Yes it’s possible that only one day in the year is the only day to reveal it.
          But, I am willing to bet on location before time line 364 to 1 if you are precise in the winter, about 173 to 1 in more seasonable conditions.

        • BTW Seeker,
          “Second, I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”

          So what you & SL seem to be expressing is that you could be closer than 12′ & not find it if your not paying attention to that very tiny tight window where the sun winks on your spot.

          Not buying it.
          It’s getting very cloudy now.
          Location, location, location.

          I am not sure where he has mentioned anything about time & sun being what you need.

          Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.” f

          In lighten me please.

          • Fenn also said no one is likely to stumble across it…
            So is it more logical a searcher needs understands beforehand what they need to be doing? or Do we just trash the place, dig holes, or buy the most expensive metal detector on the market?

            You said: “I am not sure where he has mentioned anything about time & sun being what you need.”

            Why would he mention that? if it’s true, we need to figure that out… right? While at the moment it may sound like a hunch to you… I say there may just be meanings to provide enough information to say, it is more than plausible. Of course it is all about how one reads the poem.

            I have always thought through reading the poem… there is something needed to be done on site to locate the chest… whether calculating, alignment, pacing, triangulation… or even waiting for the right moment in time… shadow.

            Let me give an example of one simple reading of stanza 4; If you been wise [ a Birdseye view or elevated location ] and found THAT location ~ the blaze, look quickly [ time involvement ] your quest to cease. If tarry means don’t linger long, and scant means small or short time to gaze at what needs to be seen.

            Now we have two scenarios…
            1. a searcher at the correct location ~ ‘blaze’ with no knowledge of where the chest is or how to locate it.
            or
            2. A searcher who understood what the poem tells of, and plans for the right time to marvel at the spot.

            12′ or 120′ doesn’t matter if we don’t know what it is to be done when and where we are there.

            There are just some examples… Unless all is needed to do is, walk up to a blaze [marker/?] and rollover / stone or look under a bush directly in front of your feet.

            Keeping with this line of thinking… HLAWH may just be the blaze we need to look down from… is this why the next line… If you’ve “been” [ past tense ] wise [ elevated view ] and “found” [ past tense] the blaze [ HLAWH ] we need to do the next step in the instructions look [an action] Quickly, [time sensitive] down [direction], to cease, but linger a short time to gaze at the last spot we need to go to.

            The poem talks about time if you read it as such… in there ~ in time, keep my secret where ~ in time, new and old ~ time or the start and end of seasons/events
            Not far but too far to walk ~in time.
            The end is ever drawing closer/near in time. No creek as no water, but a narrow passage? The four stanzas all relate to time… unless all your doing is reading a map/travel-guide looking for bears, fish water etc.

            So what is it that we all know of that relates to Time since time began…Other than Goofy’s wee gee mouse pad.

          • No one will stumble on it. Yes searchers need to do their home work beforehand such as TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.
            So what are maps used for? Why a good map?
            Places & directions?
            These are “excellent research materials”. Fact. You may throw geography in there as well. So we can now make an educated guess based on the facts.
            Not a hunch, why else would you need a map unless you need to start a fire to get warm & dry when that’s the only dry material around.
            So what does the poem have in common with these excellent research materials?
            Directions & places?
            What do time references in the poem relate to a map or GE?
            Distances?

            I see where your coming from & where you are headed & not all searchers solves are based on hunch’s.
            Hunch: A feeling or guess based on intuition rather than known facts.
            We have facts & are using them to come to an educated guess.
            I could also say that because there doesn’t seem to be any references to the sun or light in the poem or on a good map, what you guys have is a hunch. You may say the blaze is the sun or light & maybe marvel gaze, but we don’t know that for sure, do we?

            Like I said before, I had researched this theory extensively about right time & place in relation to the sun & had to discard it. The window is so tiny

            Back to the spot.
            Why do you have to look “quickly” down? Cold water or Sun & time.
            But tarry scant. Your cold & wet & need to get out of there to a warm place & dry or it’s at the end of the day & will be getting dark soon, but you may have a flashlight which weakens this thought.
            Your effort will be worth the cold. Not sure where the sun or time comes in to play here, but I do know that if you need to go into a wet creek in the Rockies, chances are it will be cold.

            This is a straight forward approach at face value with some speculation.
            Get your waders ready.

          • Jake,

            The word light or sun or bright doesn’t need to be used for one to read as such.
            Just as the word creek, you take it as literal to mean wet. This has been one of the reasons why I tend to lean away from the literal terms and means… maybe not lean away… more bending all the meanings is a better way of saying it.

            Creek has more than one definition and usage… A narrow passage is one.
            Just like the word drawing could mean art, it also could mean drainage or pulling. Then we have the word meek [ no sense in giving all the definitions, you see where I’m going with those]

            Now take stanza 3 and look at it with geography / map in mind. It seems we have water involve, a high elevation involved, a drainage involved, a place that is opposite of meek… all in a poetic tone. A narrow passage that drains water from a high elevation, seems very reasonable and straightforwards… but is creek and meek simple water? What we know is we are in the RMs… the CD the “backbone” [ no meek] of the Rockies, a narrow non-human trail that is the watershed for the drainage to all those stream, lake, river… to the oceans.

            I used this stanza to make the point, to read the poem too straightforwards in such a literal way limits thought and give way too may options in understanding what creek may refer to if you only think of it as a creek you need to cross or get wet in.

            Time is also the same understanding wen you breakdown word usage.
            In there… in time
            Where… in time
            New and Old or past and present… time
            Begin… in time
            take in… in time
            Too far to walk… in time
            end… in time
            etc. etc.
            Skip literal definitions for a moment and look at ‘word usage’
            Is warm and/or cold strictly temperature?
            Is treasure and trove the same thing?

            So just because you don’t see words such as light, sun, day etc. does that mean word usage doesn’t apply to light or shadow etc. IMO [ and that is all ‘anyone’ as at this point ] simple reading of the poem may actually be a fault because we leave out the poetic tone, and why fenn choice this particular avenue to present clues.

            Straightforwards doesn’t always mean non complicated… it can mean, in all ‘honesty’. Added poetic / poem word usage and you have the ability to use all the meanings and usages, even bending and twisting them to make it work… and … be honest in what is being told, but still very difficult.

            Yep… fenn warned us not to “over complicated” this. He also warned us not to “over simplify” a clue either.

            Just food for thought.

          • I’m chewing it Seeker,
            It may be sustenance but not very tasty for my pallet.
            The problem I have with twisting & bending is knowing where to draw the line.
            Once you step over that line, you’re in no mans land.
            Where is the line? Only Forrest knows, so we must be careful not to stretch, twist or bend it too much where it breaks. We do not know the breaking point, but I know to stay away from it as well as staying away from simplicity. Somewhere in the middle seems to be a good spot.

            “Just as the word creek, you take it as literal to mean wet.” No I don’t, there are dry creeks as well. I just see “your creek” as being wet.

            “Just like the word drawing could mean art, it also could mean drainage or pulling.”
            Art & drainage, yes pulling, absolutely. Why would you have to put in if your not pulling out somewhere?

            I don’t see all the words in the poem as literal but a good healthy dose of it seems to be there right under our nose, as plane as the text you are reading now. The interpreted context of the poem still has to flow to keep it’s beauty & message unlike me slipping plane in the sentence above unless you see it as fly, then it works.

            Let’s face it. Even face value, literal intent with a couple of twists & bends can be very difficult to solve considering the vastness of the RM’s & everyone’s different thinking styles including those who step over the line, like I have done before, but never again.

            A commenter was asking Forrest to clarify the other day about the 8.25 miles.
            I prefer to stay away from any of the borders or lines that Forrest has set. Why get close to the them when you don’t have to. I think Goofy said it right, moot point.

            Would you consider the books to be straightforwards with a couple aberrations & embellishments? I do. It makes for better reading & that goes for the poem as well.

            Now that I have swallowed the sustenance, I feel a need to regurgitate a little, but not so much as to lose all the nutrients. That would put me in no mans land like some of the searchers here.

            Remember, the poem still has to flow & work when you interpret.

          • “The poem in my book is something that I changed over and over again. When you read the poem it looks like just, just simple words there. But I guarantee you that I worked on that. I felt like an architect drawing that poem.”

            There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f 

            Preface of the book; “I tend to use words that aren’t in the dictionary, and others that are, I bend a little.

            Would you want the person that finds your treasure to admire the place where it rests? Andrew
            Well Andrew, I’m not sure “admire” is the right word but if we twist it a little maybe we can make it work. The word means approval or high regard. So it works. I sure feel that way or I would not have hidden it there. I like the way you think Andrew. f

            Jake ~ all I’m saying is… when I read comments, the book etc. I see a pattern of what we may or should be looking for.
            We just have different interpretation of straightforwards.

            *** “When you read the poem it looks like just, just simple words there. But I guarantee you that I worked on that. I felt like an architect drawing that poem.”

          • Seeker,
            We also have to look at the fact of Forrest knowing where he was going to hide the chest & make the poem work. So he knew exactly where he was going to put it & tweak the poem for years to make it work.
            Point “I” was known (Where the chest resides)
            Point “A” was also known by him. (Starting point)
            I am using “A” & “I” as 1 & 9 as in clues.

            Create a poem & fill in the directions between these points in consecutive order.
            Both points are very special to him.

            Considering the restrictions set by point “A” & “I”, there appears to be only one path describing directions how to get there.
            How special would it be to have “A” at his favorite fishing spot or bathing area?
            “A” came after “I” in this case, so it would make sense that “A” is also a very dear, special place for him.

            I don’t know point “I” but would put allot of bucks right near Ojo in the Firehole.
            Maybe it’s all just a hunch.

            BTW, seeing Forrest likes poker, I think he is bluffing:
            “The poem in my book is something that I changed over and over again. When you read the poem it looks like just, just simple words there. But I guarantee you that I worked on that. I felt like an architect drawing that poem.”

            The poem is not as complicated as everyone thinks it is.
            Read his quote again, over & over, analyzing what he’s actually saying.
            He guarantees you, that he worked on it. No doubt there.
            He never states the opposite of simple.
            Architect. Yes
            Changed it over & over again. Sure, to make it work between point “A” & “I”.

            His tell is: “When I wrote that poem I wasn’t playing any games, It’s straight forward.”
            This is where he tips his cards. So he has a straight off suit.
            That’s beatable with a flush & easier to get if you’ve played the game.

            I hope to call his bluff in June & if I lose, I will never play him at his game again.
            I don’t want to go down in history chasing & spending like so many others.
            You got to know when to walk away from the table.

          • Jake you said..

            “Changed it over & over again. Sure, to make it work between point “A” & “I”.”

            I like your logic but shouln’t we be going from point “A” to point “B”?

          • Thanks Spallies,
            “A” is the first clue & “I” is the 9th letter in the English alphabet as in the final clue.
            Many have been to A & B – some have been within 200′ of “I”

          • LOL… ok sure… that comment is a bluff?!
            What can I say to that…
            Seems I keep hearing a lot of folks who say the poem is straight as an arrow, directional only, fenn wasn’t playing games… does the exact opposite with is comments.

            Good chatting…

          • We are all sitting down at the table playing a big game of poker with the man who started the game.
            Bluffing is a part of the game & his game.
            I am going out on a big hunch that the poem reads as directions with a twist & bend here & there.
            I have seen allot of other searchers cards that ended up in the muck.
            What do I have to lose going one more last time?
            You were right when you said “that’s dumb Jake” when I threw out parts of my solve, but it made me think in another way & still came back to my original way of thinking.
            You can’t blame a person for that.
            No, it’s not straight as an arrow, but the arrow will find it’s mark someday, probably not our day.
            Pleasure exchanging ideas we may not have any control over.

        • This is one of the most important statements Forrest has made.

          “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

          How would anyone know the path of the location beforehand? But sure for the one who did?

          Why does he say “did”?
          He could have said “does”
          But sure for the one who does.

      • Fenn said that the chest could be found anytime if you know where it is. It does not matter where the sun is, or what the weather is. If you understand the clues, as Fenn has said, you can find it any time.

          • If you know “exactly” where the chest is, you could “probably” retrieve it in any weather.

            Until Indulgence is found, only Fenn knows exactly where it is. Even the precise, confident searcher won’t know until that point. I would hate to hike all day and get to a 200′ x 200′ area and miss it. Limo of course.

  50. Hi SL – and yes, that could explain the “look quickly down” aspect because the “blaze” won’t last very long, like the sun dagger at Chaco. But, it may not have anything to do with an equinox or solstice. Perhaps another date is more important to ff. Just a thought.

  51. Puzzled, you said ff said that the chest could be found anytime if you know where it is. It does not matter where the sun is, or what the weather is. If you understand the clues, as Fenn has said, you can find it any time. I am wondering if you thought about how many feet of snow or water may be on top of the TC?

    ff was asked if the Blaze faced the direction of north, south, east or west and to paraphrase him. ff said “none” of those directions, so it (the Blaze) is facing either up toward the sky or Quickly down toward the center of earth… Perhaps it is both???

    Is that accurate?

    Puzzled, correct me if I am wrong? Also define CANYON and DOWN, OK.

    Tom T

    • Not quite true. Mr. Fenn has commented before on the precision of directions, so it could very well be facing SW or NNW, which is none of those directions.

      • seabee88,

        I made the directional alignment reference “up” as a general idea, imagine the Washington Monument, not as viewing the entrance of the monolith, just it’s overall impression like a spire pointing straight up a pyramid is oriented in the mind of it’s architect/creator as facing the heavens.

        https://www.nps.gov/wamo/index.htm

        What if the Blaze was man made in that shape, with only the purpose to make a monument toward the heavens?

        Tom T

        PS when were you in the Navy Sea Bee’s? For me, Jan 1964 through Dec 1967, After “A” school, I was assigned to the remaining of my four years to amphib fleet, APD’s, carried UDT Team 21 and westpac Marine recon’s, then 1 year active reserve, 1 year inactive reserve. IC-3, now called ET’s.

        Sometimes ff reminds me of an ET, Extra Terrestrial I mean. HA! HA!

    • Tom T- you said,
      “ff was asked if the Blaze faced the direction of north, south, east or west and to paraphrase him. ff said “none” of those directions, so it (the Blaze) is facing either up toward the sky or Quickly down toward the center of earth… Perhaps it is both???” (Tom T comment above)

      My opinion is that the blaze does not face N, S, E, W, Up, or Down. I feel certain of what the blaze is. My opinion is that the person who studies the poem will know exactly what the blaze is and will be able to go directly to the TC. (opinion of Puzzled)

      I agree with Med_evac and Tom T, that it would be much more difficult and dangerous to to try to acquire the TC if it is under snow. It is dangerous to head out into the wilderness, away from a known trail when the weather is cold or stormy. I do not recommend it. My point about being able to find the TC in any weather, regardless of where the sunlight is, was meant to state that I believe the poem tells us exactly where the TC is and we should be able to go directly to it after studying the poem. I’m not done studying. I had a solve early on, but soon discovered that this poem has much more to it than what we see on the surface. So I’m back to the drawing board looking seriously at three different locations. We are to “look at the whole picture” so I am looking at three whole pictures. I have worked through what I believe to be the correct answers to several of the clues and I have found numerous hints in the poem. I think I have the key word. This will take more time. I do believe I am on the right track and I definitely believe I know which of my three studied locations is correct. But, I do not have the TC so. . .

      Tom T.- sorry, but I cannot elaborate on the word “canyon” or the word “down”. There are useful sources to discover the definitions of these words and what they could possibly mean other than what is common belief. I know that if I say I am going to hike in “the canyon”, you would probably assume you know what I am saying. But these words have ancient meanings and implications. It takes study!

      I do have a questions for you Tom T.- I can’t find a discussion from several months ago and for whatever reason, I keep thinking it was you that made the comments I’m thinking of. Looking for the person who suggested that some of the clues in the poem might be revealed in rock or soil layers. Was that you?

      • Nope, it was not me, I don’t even suspect any thing?

        Thanks for looking at the poem with a different angle, that is why IMAGINATION is more Important than Knowlege, or is it knowledge, I mean did I mispell “angel” above, that could be the key? Huh? the angel is the blaze maybe..

        Tom T

  52. Hello all and good morning. We drove all night and are still driving. It’s nice to see the land scape in the daylight. Wind is bad.

    • Kedars mom, when will yall arrive? Can’t wait to hear the stories of ur adventure. Be careful and stay safe.

    • Good afternoon KM,
      You should be at your mark now.
      I see it’s very windy in the Rockies except for Montana.
      SW Wyoming appears to be a wind tunnel as is N Utah & S Idaho.
      Would you be coming from the West coast?

      • We’re still driving, an hour or two until we get to our hotel. It’s so beautiful out here. The sun is shining.

        • Hello KM
          Glad to you guys made it ok. Now it’s time to have some fun. Where are you staying at? We’ve stayed in a few places that haven’t been what I would say is exactly, NICE TO BE IN. LOL
          Have fun AND PLEASE BE SAFE.

          • Timothy, not saying a word of our location. It is a secret. Now the question is….have I been wise and found the blaze and looked quickly down. : )

        • So, KM,
          How’s the search going?
          Looking forward to seeing some beautiful pics of the landscape & the treasure of course if you have a connection.

  53. I find it interesting how many times f mentions or refers to the hidey space in the poem… Let’s count them.

    1. As I have gone alone in there, and with my treasures bold…

    2. I can keep my secret where…

    3. The end is ever drawing nigh… This one might be debatable if it refers to the chest’s location or not, but I’m throwing it in anyway.

    4. But tarry scant with marvel gaze, just take the chest and go in peace…

    5. And leave my trove for all to seek? I have done it tired and now I’m weak…

    6. If you are brave and in the wood, I give you title to the gold.

    Argue the clues how one perceives them, but for me, trying to assign multiple references of the hidey spot in the poem to be different clues/locations seems backwards, even counterproductive. It seems to me f is really trying to give a lot of information about the hidey spot, this very special place of his; that is if he wasn’t lying when he said that the poem is straight-forward.

  54. Hear me all and listen good!!!!!!

    Had one of those “ah ha” moments. A HGTV show talked about rock speakers. I checked Amazon and sure enough–some are large enough to “hide” the chest inside. It’s neither burried or not burried. It’s hidden.

    It’s not possible, is it, that battery life could last this long and a searcher could hear it play if his phone was in bluetooh mode?

    • also, the fiberglass shell would protect against the elements for a long, long time.

      • I have actually thought FF could have had a fake hollow boulder cast in bronze to cover the TC. Bronze would last much longer than fiberglas against the elements (including fire), would be heavier than fiberglas (not as easily moved/shifted by wind or animals), and would blend in with the surroundings better (even over time as it acquired a poatina). Harebrained, I know.

        • patina.

          Also, FF has the knowlege, talent and wherewithall to make that fake boulder himself.

        • I split a 500 lb 2.5′ rock in half because I saw a hairline crack all the way around the center, and it was near my blaze. Took 6 hours to accomplish but got it, and when I say it I mean two 250 lb halves of a sandstone rock. 🙁

          But yes I thought he could’ve split it open, cored out a spot in the middle, put the chest there, then epoxy the rock back together and have it sitting out in the open. 😯

          • I am falling out of my chair laughing Will.
            Hahahahah. You are one crazy dude.
            Sorry it wasn’t there. What ever possessed you to think it was in there?
            LOL…..

          • Now I know where you got your moniker…Iron Will. Being a stone sculptor myself, I know the challenge.

            Take a break, and TRY to STAY SAFE Iron Will

            JD

          • I read that Will some time ago & was never able to finish it.
            Thanks for the refresh.
            I hope your back on your medication after that.
            Tesuque?
            Really?

          • There you go with your belittling comments again. I don’t know why I expected more from you.

          • Sorry to crinkle you.
            I was just poking a little fun as others do to me at times.
            Anyway, I see the Blue Ribbon as a clue.
            Not sure if I would be taking measurements from Tesuque body.
            Trout.

          • Iron – My son and I visited that very spot in May. While it is not the spot where the chest is hidden it’s in close proximity to where the chest is hidden IMO.

    • Interesting idea. But Fenn has said that it could be found many years from now. So if it isn’t found for 100 or 1000 years, that wouldn’t work.

      • All I know is: when I’m in the wood I’ll be rockin’ Eddy Arnold. And if a rock starts playing the same song…I’m going to look quickly down.

      • I mistated Fenn’said comment about 100 or 1000 years. He was asked if the clues existed when he was a kid and if they will exist in “100 or 1000 years”. Fenn responded, ” I think they might exist in 100 years. . .If you are in the year 3009, it will be more difficult for you to find the treasure”. I took that to mean that the treasure could be there in 100 or 1000 years but that may not be the intended meaning.

  55. I just assume that WWH means the entire Rocky Mountain Range. Narrowing down the state is the next level. Assume that since Fenn has a secret, and the only state he doesnt talk about is Colorado, then that would be a logical starting point. Somewhere in Colorado. Since the pome hints of Riches new and Old, then one could assume that Denver used to be known as Montana City. Fenn may be hiding his words with other words he has hinted. Montana City/Denver is a gold rush establishment. There is your riches new and old. However, during this time it was part of the Kansas Territory. So technically on a map a long time ago, if you were searching in this area, you would be searching in the limits of name Kansas.
    Im not bias, I just think Colorado has more evidence pointing to it, than anything else. Fenn didnt have TV’s growing up, that had Radios, and if there were TV’s they were black and white.
    I just take the context of the Word Colorado itself, and you get get some valid points. Color is a word. Maybe that is why fenn elaborates a rainbow, and why some of us, see images of the Wizard of OZ in the poem.. I would start with that, if you are not sure. I do rule out the other states, because I think Fenn simply uses them for distractions and hints.
    When someone hears the Rocky Mountains, They dont think of Montana, or Wyoming, and for damn sure dont think of New Mexico… They think of Colorado, just like Zac Brown did.

  56. All,

    It’s interesting to go back and read one’s previous ideas, the discussions involved and to reflect on how far we all have come in such a short period. From here to the end, one will sit a stir in surprise only to depart in peace with the prize.

    LitterateOne

    • Thanks L1,
      Your knowledge & comments are so helpful.
      I wouldn’t know what to do without them.
      How far have we come?
      Where is the end?

      • Jake,

        Thought you might be swimming in this forgotten hole. The answers I “think” I already knew, the key is to understanding the meaning of the words in the poem. All falls into place once you know it. Those things we once thought were key become less relevant, and are just lures for those unfortunate few who bite.

        LitterateOne

        • LitterateOne – You wrote:

          “All falls into place once you know it.”

          Are you looking in Montana or Wyoming,…in the YNP vicinity,…and do you think “it” is the Madison River,…and that ff had “done it tired”,…when he wrote about fly fishing in the preface of TFTW?

          • E*,

            I am not, and I would propose a tight focus on the meaning of words, particularly the ones named.

            litterateOne

          • Very good advice LitterateOne – especially those definitions not commonly used. Just an thought.

            JD

          • LitterateOne – You meant THESE words that YOU named?:

            “…one will sit a stir in surprise only to depart in peace with the prize.”

            As equivalent to:

            “But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
            Just take the chest and go in peace.”

            What do I REALLY think is on that stone (from ff’s San Lazaro Pueblo wall IMO),…that I think lies flush to the ground,…covering the cache that contains the Bronze Chest?:

            This rainbow-shaped inscription:

            “I wish I could have lived to do, the things I was attributed to.”

            Only someone on The Chase would recognize that flat stone (aka. a “scant”) as belonging to Forrest Fenn,…and would know that the Bronze Chest lies beneath it. IMO.

          • E*,

            The best advice I can provide to anyone is take a step back and with an unmolested eye and ear, closely view the words in the poem.

            LitterateOne

        • LitterateOne, yes. If you have followed some of my posts you know that I feel the same way. The real, root or archaic definitions to the words are very important. I have looked all of the words up and then some . I can not get it to fit to the geology. I understand what Forrest is trying to say to us, but my starting point must be off because there are to many possibilities for the end.

          LitterateOne, Tacit, have you looked up tacit. It is a word he says in preface of TFTW. Tacit, look it up in Wikipedia and dictionary if you haven’t already. It means to KNOW. SILENT Knowledge, you just do it like riding a bike. You just know. You get it.

          Relates to Think and focus and seeing. All important to know the answers I believe.

          How do I connect it to geology LitterateOne?

          • DPT,

            The lessons I gain from the blogs have greatly lessened as of late, I guess that’s why they call them lessons. SO, I must confess I may not have seen your previous posts.

            Only looking up the meaning of words isn’t enough, and I do not assume you do this. I firmly believe we must also understand how words interact with one another and how they can adjust the meaning of a sentence. Furthermore, the style and structure in which this poem is writing masks and tricks the reader and that is why Forrest may have chosen it.

            I do not posses TFTW as I do not want to further cloud my already molested mind with more information that does not get me “closer” to the chest.

            There is a significant difference between geology and geography, and maybe you meant the later, as I do not see an need for a comprehensive knowlege of geology in solving this riddle.

            LitterateOne

        • You are so straight to the point L1,
          Very helpful with great insight here on this site.
          I would have never known it was you who commented unless you do this.
          Your relentless logic is uncommon to no one & that is what makes us get it all.
          I will share something very important here & now with you.

          The person who searches the depths of the unknown will certainly go there without knowing where they are. In fact this place is known only to the ones that have been there. It is only them that experience this great provision to the insight of the fact of not knowing anything.

          Do you get my point?

          LitterateOne

  57. Earlier in this thread some searchers thought perhaps ff had created a disguise or camouflaged the chest by making a cover of bronze, fiberglass rock etc, the problem with that theory is it is an extra thing to transport, I assume ff took a back pack (twice) and if there were a cover, the pack could be the most likely if there was a cover, it is possible he left it over the chest and contents, just sayin, so that deteriorating pack would be more likely for ff to use.

    Tom T

    • I don’t know where it was. It was a while back. I recall reading that when asked how he carried the TC and the contents to the hiding place, did he use a bag or a back pack? As I recall his response was that he used both. That would allow for two loads in the back pack and two loads in the bag. Thus, he may have carried in some time of material to disguise the TC.

      • Windy City,

        I Wonder:

        How did Forrest take the “treasure” part of Indulgence “in there” on the second trip?…..having left the bronze chest “in there” on the first trip.

        The chest would be undamaged, I guess, in a backpack on the first trip.

        The Inca frog, gems, nuggets, glass containers….would have needed a bag(s), I think, to put in his backpack.

        ===
        What sort of bag would Forrest Fenn choose to hold this awesome assortment of treasures?
        ===

        Perhaps THE BAG is the surprise! (didn’t f hint at a ?…neveermind)

        Joseph “The Bag” Jones
        hehe

      • If the Hidey Spot were very close to his “safe” in Santa Fe and he made two trips in one afternoon, he could take the bronze chest in first, go home and get the contents and return to the Spot carefully placing said contents and closing lid, now that is possible.

        My feeling is he took the chest first, then the contents, surely he looked around and listened to make sure no one saw or heard him deposit his stash.

        Digging makes noise, shoving indulgence into a prepared or natural hole, crack, or cave etc and disguising it somehow makes perfect sense.

        Once while bow hunting in the mountains of northern NM I watched two men dig a large hole from a distance, using my camo, face mask and being hidden from their view, saw these two characters hide a large PVC pipe in the hole they dug, it had a screw on lid and was 10″ in diameter with a threaded cap. Waiting until till those me left, I walked to their working area and uncovered that pipe, unscrewed the cap and guess what I found inside?

        Perhaps that sounds a little far fetched, but it is true, perhaps I will tell you later what was sealed inside, or maybe not.

        Tom T

    • The Bag that held the treasures new and old for the second trip, would make a good cover for Indulgence,

      • Especially if it is a 200 yr old “possibles bag”

  58. If I may but in: Re: chicken or the egg…..Treasures left unattended in vehicle would have been to risky….treasures first then the chest…..don’t have the link/quote but this is the order of ops as I recall. IMO

    • I think it has been established that f said the chest went first.

      But I also think we err when expecting all f’s statements to be flawless.

    • Cholly, I still remember the first scene in the Movie “No Country for Old Men” which won all kinds of awards, sorta like a precursor to “Breaking Bad”, both filmed in NM, between 2007 and September 29, 2013.

      Searching for ff’s treasure in NM is a Thrill, just as you can imagine in those films, except for the extreme dangers it feels like a rush when you think you may have it figured out.

      I do believe more than 3 clues have been postulated on this blog, simply because ff said long ago 2 were solved early, but the persons did not recognize the other 7, perhaps now he is hinting at 4 being solved today?

      The last stanza, which I believe is a Hint, and not a clue says “Your effort will be worth the cold, If you are brave and in the wood” seems like some wading in cold water, at the right time of year and in a river named “WooD”.

      Tom T

      • @Tom T, so that 10 inch PVC cache held ingredients for making something illegal or what? Scary! Bow hunters are very stealthy for sure.

  59. ======================
    The Case for Rock Shelter
    ======================

    “Not in a cave” has been a thorn in my paw.

    “As I have gone alone in there”: The Hiding Spot, with the intent for the spot to be amenable to open air burial beside Indulgence.

    For me this rules out anything near-stream. A heavy chest could perhaps resist flowing water, but bones? To me, it mandates shelter. And not where critters frequent.

    “Not in a cave”
    BLAST you Forrest ! :0

    But. But. But. It’s GOT to be in a cave. Call Major Rationalization.

    ME: “Capt. It HAS to be in a cave.”

    MajorR:”That’s Major, son. A CAVE? What exactly did f mean, “cave”? ”

    ME: “I dunno, he was talking about mines and cave-ins…snakes and critters, I guess, talking about dangerous places you should not go.”

    MajorR: “Good you called me. I can attest: A rock shelter is not a cave.”

    ME: “How can you attest that?”

    MajorR: “Because I am MAJOR RATIONALIZATION, my boy.”

  60. I’ve only been at this for a few days, but must say that I may agree with the person “stealth” who posted above. The one sentence that lead me in that direction was “so hear me all and listen good”. Of course, proper English would state ” listen WELL”,
    not “good”. “canyon down”, “in there”, ” too far to walk”(u would most likely have climb or lower yourself not walk).

    Many other things seem to point to a well. Little children often find cool places to hide. Perhaps Forrest found an almost empty well when he was younger, and would go down ” with a flashlight and a sandwich” and daydream of the treasures he would find one day.

    It’s all conjecture of course, but it sure is fun to use your imagination isn’t it?

    • Joe

      Appreciate the +1. I know others don’t agree with this but I have many more reasons to believe this is correct.

      Read the poem carefully and they will keep jumping out.

      “Drawing” is the key word

      • Stealth, I believe that treating “drawing” as the key word tends to over-rate the significance of the word “drawing”. My solve is functionally unchanged by omitting the word “drawing”, although it does tend to
        help a little bit.

        If the poem’s line were changed to

        “The end is ever nigh”, that line would still mean the
        same thing to me.

        Compared to the word “drawing”, I think some more important words — that can’t be ignored in a correct solve — are the following, listed in the order they
        appear in the poem:

        halt
        down
        loads
        wise

        The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

        Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe.

        • Stealth, although I like your connection of the
          word “drawing” to the idea that a well might be
          the hidey space, I think I remember that FF said that the treasure is not in a dangerous place. I can’t imagine it being very safe for a person to be lowered into — or climb down into — a well . . . particularly a thousand years from now.

          The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

          • Depends on the type of well….. some are quite safe and quite well preserved over hundreds of years….

          • The actual quotarion was “no need to dig up any outhouses…. Treasure is not associated with any structure”

          • Sorry Stealth, I am going to have to call you on that quote. Please post your reference. As I recall, he stated something more along the lines of… Not associated with a man made structure, so please don’t go digging up the old outhouse. I didn’t quote as I know not the actual quote. Can you reference me wrong?

          • That one is easy Slurbs, it’s on Fenn’s webpage:

            Clue #11
            No need to dig up the old outhouses, the treasure is not associated with any structure.

          • Thanks for the link Dal… of course that really just caused me to wander back into the is it the poem or is it the book and poem or poem and book debate… Despite the structure ‘human made’ or not comment, I’m sticking with “in a well” for reasons that I’m not ready to explain beyond what I have already shared.

            This is also my first chance to thank you and Goofy for keeping up the blog. It is much appreciated.

  61. Stealth—thanks for the reply. I will definitely look at the word “drawing”–thanks. My wife contributed to my search this morning. She said “where warm waters halt” is the pilot light on that darn water heater. Now get off your butt and fix it, and stop reading that dang poem”. Just kidding. Keep having fun with your search.

  62. I think that the hidey space can’t be “narrowed down” as much as a searcher
    would want. FF has apparently said that if one was within 12 feet of the TC,
    it’s not likely that it would not be found. In other words, if you were to enter
    a 24-foot-diameter circle that has the TC at its center, you’d be likely to find
    the TC.

    The clues, if followed precisely, lead to an area that is a bit larger than that.
    The area thus described appears to be more like a rectangle, on the side of
    a hill that has a slope of about 45 degrees. The rectangle is perhaps 200
    feet tall, and perhaps about 50 feet wide. There are some (sparse) trees in
    this area. It’s difficult to search, because it’s so steep, and the ground is
    very loose dirt (very dry in the summer, usually) and smallish rocks.
    Extremely difficult to climb. So it would take quite a while to search the
    entire zone.

    And don’t forget to bring a GOOD flashlight. I suggest a modern LED
    flashlight with at least 300 lumens of brightness. And NEW batteries.
    This is all very important. If you don’t use a good flashlight, your chance
    of finding the TC is greatly diminished!

    The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

    Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe (don’t hike alone).

  63. I think that Forrest’s Weekly post – posted today is very appropriate here
    “*If you think I could not have put it there, you are probably right. f”

    Good luck to all searchers, and TRY to STAY SAFE

    JDA

    • JDA ,

      Looks like classic Fenn-speak to me.

      1) You are probably right, in that I could not have put it there.

      2) You are probably right but, you think I could not have put it there, so you went right on past . . .

  64. Widening our thoughts for a second from the hiding space to the immediate surroundings, Forrest says he thought of everything when hiding the TC. So can we rule out certain localities due to their terrain?

    For example, an earlier solve of mine took me close to a creek. Great! you might think, fishing spot etc. but when I returned a beaver dam just upstream had submerged a large area. I know some think the chest is under water already, but I’m not among them, and the spot being covered in this way wouldn’t seem right. It made me think that the chest won’t be too close to a river or creek in a flat valley floor.

    Similarly, I think you can discount steep slopes or anywhere there is a high chance of erosion, simply because Nature could move the chest too easily. We know it’s not at the top of a mountain, but what does that leave us? Meadows, flattish forested areas, plains not too near to creeks or the edges of narrow valleys. Anything else?

    • Pacman,

      We think alike. Erosion plays a major role in geography, and If Forrest was thinking ahead like he said he did it must be in a spot that erosion could not play a major role for years to come, this doesn’t mean it that erosion could not effect the places that the clues refer to as Forrest has said. Taking this into account I visualize a meadow and or clearing (synonymous). These features generally contain a minimal soil content and many rock outcroppings which prohibit large wood growth.

      Seannm

  65. regarding the “it’s not in a cave” reference by f
    we just went in a cave, Lewis&Clark Cave (cool), and that is not an abri which we found galore in the tuff of southern montana

  66. For reference, the government has strict guidelines on what a structure, dwelling, ruins and others are. I.e. Jemez historic site is considered ruins and not a structure even though it is man made.

  67. It just occurred to me that “special place”, in my mind, must relate to a place where Forrest as a youth found a special something.

    as a youth…..most impressible…..most memorable….

    not, perhaps, what older folk would find stunning

  68. Awhile back, I remember a Scrapbook and seeing a picture of a young man in the snow. He had a pole or something associated with one; and was standing above what appeared to be a “portal” (Forrest may have pointed it out).

    Here’s an example; ( possibly hidden with such things as dirt, brush, grass, rocks and stones)…. A type of ‘lid’ as well?

    A long with that **sandwich and flashlight, a pair of gloves could come in handy.

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Octagonal_Roman_cistern_at_The_Weir_Garden.JPG

    Enjoy your journey,

    SL

      • pdenver,

        Once again, your attention towards detail and natural desire to offer others assistance comes shining thru!

        Yes, that’s the helper whom I was referring – Must be the pride & joy to those who know him; just look at that smile!

        Although, the “Cistern” might might not even come close to anything..”hidey”….it is something that really jumped out to me.

        Again, my friend, thank you.

        SL

        If you should get the chance, I hope you’ll listen to the youtube selection that I gave a link to below the first post. (Richard Harris, “Slides.”) I think you may enjoy it!

        • You’re welcome, SL. I have viewed Richard Harris’ “Slides,” and I thank you for pointing it out to me. It holds a lot of meaning within its words. As for the family helper, I truly do believe the family is quite proud of him, and he wears his smile well. It’s nice to see when others are happy.

          • P.S. I couldn’t find your original post, so I had looked it up myself. Is the song, “Slides” for which you were suggesting? I believe I viewed it when you posted it the first time, but my memory is failing me at the moment.

  69. I spent a lot of time thinking about this, how do you hide something that you don’t want found for a 500-1000 years?
    Hmmmmm….I wonder about being brave and in the wood. Maybe that’s why I came home empty handed. : )

    • Could be. How many definitions of “In the wood” can you come up with that are useful? I came up with four. JDA

      • Good question JD. The only one that is useful is Forrest’s version of in the wood. Straightforward if you know what it means(?), but you still have to be brave. : )

          • I’m just waiting to see if he says anyone has been closer than 200′ this season. ; )

          • perhaps an inside joke on Neil Armstrong’s Texification of “for a” (one small step ferra man)

          • In the audio of Forrest reading the poem (also in the video where he reads it), He says that sentence as:

            “If you’ve been brave and in the wood…”

            I don’t have the link, but its on Dals site. Dal noticed it, and even made a comment about it being a mistake.

            Its more likely from an older version, but to me it means that since we have:

            “If you are brave and in the wood…”
            and
            “If you’ve been brave and in the wood…”

            the tense must not mean anything and both sentences are valid. If not, then he likely would have had Dal remove it, dont’t ya agree?

          • JDA – I take it you think its in the Wind River Reservation (or another Indian Reservation)?

            I hope you are wrong, thats worse than federal land. hehe

          • WYMIG

            One can get in trouble jumping to conclusions. There are other options to consider other than the one you proposed. JDA

          • JDA – I know, but what about the video and audio files where Fenn only reads the poem.

            He read part of the last stanza as:
            “If you’ve been brave and in the wood…”

            That’s past tense

            The actual poem is:
            “If you are brave and in the wood…”

            Present tense

            My guess is he probably said an older revision, but I wonder if the tense matters. My first thought is no because I think he would correct it.

            I know he’s old now, but how can he not know the poem inside and out after all these years.

            “If you’ve been brave and in the wood…”
            as he read it, could mean you went through an area where “the brave” exist, such as the Indians, and now you are in the wood, but no longer need to be brave (out of the reservation perhaps)?

            But “If you are brave and in the wood…” could mean you are still in the reservation.

            I know it sounds like nitpicking, but the poem is the most important thing we have. He even says it is not wise to discount any word. Maybe he revised it because of that tense discrepency? Maybe it don’t matter, only he knows.

            I personally believe that the chest is on public land because he willfully abandoned it, its not lost, there is an important distinction there. If its abandoned on Indian land, I am pretty sure it is owned by the indians the second he declared it abandoned. If it was lost property, you could turn it in and if its not claimed in a certain amount of time you have a chance to get it, but, and I could be wrong of course, you have zero chance to get it from the Indians if it was abandoned. Taking it would the theft.

            I do not think Forrest would put a searcher in such a situation. Not to mention the fact that it would also put his estate at risk to lawsuits if it were found there. Same with a national park. You can bet that if it was ever found IN lets say Yellowstone NP, Yellowstone would sue his estate for all the rescues related to the chase.

            When it is found, my opinion is it will either be found on public property, or it will be found on private property held in a “land trust” which you will be given title to. Fenn, like all the rich people, can easily hide property ownership from everyone except the IRS. He could have pre-signed a title, and if he is alive when it is found he would be notified that the land changed owners. That might explain how he seems to be so sure it has never been found. It also helps him lesson the chance to almost zero that someone will go onto the private property and stumble upon it.

            Just to save my but, again I do not claim to know this as a fact. Fenn nor anyone has told me this, and there is no way I can prove it without the chest just like there is no way it can be proven where it is by anyone until its found. This is only my opinion.

            Note: I do believe that the clues themselves are probable on a reservation or maybe a national park because those are most likely to remain for 100 or 1000 years whereas public land can and does frequently change. My theory is none of the clues can be removed and none were created by FF. My belief is the poem leads you to a place where the final clue has something etched on it, maybe a cryptic map, or maybe a “hint of riches old” such as an old slab with a Jesse James map carved in it. If you follow this map it will lead to where Jesse’s treasure is thought to be, BUT if you apply the poems clues on top of Jesse’s map, it leads you into a completely different location, perhaps out of the park and you will confidently walk to Fenns treasure, not Jessies.

            I believe “hints to riches old” is the old carving you will discover at the last clue in a very public place (it will make us laugh). But if you are wise when standing at that blaze and use the poem, that same blaze/carving/map will give you “hints of riches new” and take you to the chest.

            No way for me to prove this other than if I ever find the chest. But it sure is making for an interesting theory and might explain why we need imagination and “the right map”. It would be brilliant if he did this using a map that is sitting right in our face at the museum in Cody for example. Or maybe at the old west town. Or maybe in Browns Park, CO where I have not been, but considering all the outlaws who had hiding places in that area, I bet we have a few treasure maps on display somewhere. How many people used those maps as “the right map” and applied the poem to it and change where the map leads without even altering it?

            Maybe that map is the blaze? Maybe water high and heavy loads are depicted on that map? Maybe there is a creek on it, but he doesn’t want us to go up the creek, we ford the creek or take a left turn (drawing nigh)?

            It all sounds very plausible to me 🙂

            Maybe this map is on a reservation? Imagine they have a map that leads you to Crowe Butt for example where it is rumored that Chief Washakie put the heart of an enemy Chief on a pike after killing him, and put that pike on that peak. They once asked the Chief if it is true, he responded “it sounds like something I would have done as a young man”. LOL… Anyway, you grab that map but you do not follow it to Crowe Butt, you alter the path on that map based on Forrests poem. Now you have just created a way to walk with confidence not to Crowe Butte, but to Indulgence!

            That said, it would also explain why the little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues, it might be because the first two clues lead you to the “right map” which is onsite and can’t be moved. Now get away from Google Earth and instead see if the poem’s next 7 clues are depicted on that map and since you are BOTG after the first two clues, you can use those 7 clues to walk to the chest.

            Well, I am sorry for the wall of text and I probably repeated myself at least 10 times! LOL…

  70. From King Lear to Père Goriot, Monet’s biographer chooses some of the best portrayals of men who hold our attention at an age when most writers are no longer interested. These words which describe FF to a Tee and allow us to understand what motivates the man who says he can retire? RETIRE, just another word for REINVENT https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/monet

    I doubt that word exist in his vocabulary, soon ff will emerge from this cocoon as a butterfly on the wall or a frog described as a handsome prince.

    Do we truly believe he will hide himself forever, ? or that the hidey spot where the treasure sits will remain obscure from our site?

    Ney! I say the spot, that spot, come out dang spot, it shall be discovered by one of us soon. or later?

    Tom T

  71. So is the chest buried or not?
    I know it’s been discussed at length but I would like to hear searchers opinions on this. Here is what we know:

    * “I have never said the treasure was buried, I said it was hidden, I didn’t want to give that as a clue.f”
    * He said: ” Bring a sandwich and a flashlight.” He never said “bring a shovel”
    * We know he buried the bronze bells. (if so, why just ‘hide’ the treasure?) “I buried those bells about three feet deep so a metal detector can’t find them”
    * He said: ” a metal detector will help you if you’re in exactly the right spot”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPhPwL6d8I4
    * He said: “How can anything be in the Rocky Mountains and not be wet,” “Even if it were buried six feet deep, it would still be wet.”
    http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/many-claim-they-ve-solved-forrest-fenn-riddle-but-treasure/article_3605fc91-a501-5764-b47e-5bf2efdab234.html
    * “Nobody is going to accidentally stumble on that treasure chest. They’re going to have to figure out the clues and let the clues take them to that spot,f” http://abc13.com/news/millionaire-leaves-poetic-clues-for-treasure-hunters/685344/
    * “the chest is “exposed” to rain and snow, and could be scorched in a forest fire.” http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/03/03/clues-for-finding-forrest-fenn-s-buried-treasure-part-2.html

    Your thoughts and comments would be appreciated.
    Sincerely. -Randawg.

    • At one time, I thought that it was in water – a creek or stream. I no longer think that.

      I do not think that it is buried. I think that there is enough information in the poem to get you within several feet, I do not think that there is enough information in the poem to get you within an area small enough to dig for it.

      Some people feel that there are exact coordinates hidden in the poem that would permit the searcher to be in a small enough area to dig – I do not.

      Digging for treasure – or anything – is against federal statutes on government lands like BLM or Forrest Service land. I do not think that Forrest would require the finder to break the law.

      Just my personal thoughts and feelings – JDA

      • I thought it was in water for awhile too. My first interpret of “no place for the meek”.

        I do think the clues provide an approximate place where to dig.
        I appreciate your comments JDA, but I think FF is looking for a prodigy of sorts that like himself is not afraid of breaking rules (or bending laws). If don’t believe the one who finds the treasure will be deterred by such things. Maybe that’s what he really meant by ‘no place for the meek’?

        -Randawg.

    • P.S. Forrest has also said that if you were within 12′ you would be able to see it – hard to do if it is buried, unless you have X-ray vision. JDA

      • JDA, where did he say that if you were within 12′ you would see it? I remember something to the effect that if someone was within 12′ they should be able to see it, but don’t remember him saying if you are within 12′ you will see the chest. Loco, you out there? do you remember the comment?

        • “It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.” ff (referring to 12 feet)

          Scrapbook 78

        • In SB78 Forrest said, “I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”

          • thanks iron and Mark. I didn’t think he actually said that. Figuring that a searcher would be the one that close, it probably wouldn’t be likely. Come on JDA, post only his actual words, you know better than that.

          • While the SB was meant, in part, as corrections of misinformation jumping around the blogs… “it is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it” is interesting.

            The chest won’t be stumped on comment seems to imply, hidden very well. But if we look at the word usages of tarry, how it can be used in meaning to any sentence… a few ways of looking at it would be; drag your feet, crawling, creeping, in a slow action, to the meaning of tarry.

            So a couple thoughts come to mind…
            Would fenn leave the chest relatively unprotected?
            This was a place where he intended to be his final resting place. Would his bones be out in an area easily discover and/or displaces?

            So I have wondered… how or where could one leave a wood-line bronze chest that has survived from 1150AD and keep it and the contents relatively safe. This may not answer to where the chest is, but more to the fact, where it might not be.

            I would think imo, that fenn wouldn’t want the chest water-log, sitting within moist dirt for a long time period, or even near natural decaying properties [ such as under a log ]…. From the same SB;
            “Sixth, I think I will be a little let down if someone finds the treasure in the next several years but I will quickly recover. It is out of my hands now.”
            Which imo, say, fenn took into serious consideration of “down the road.” and in what condition he would like/hope the chest to be in when found… So, it’s not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it… a ‘Chase’ searcher, or ‘anyone’ at all?

    • randawg, I think the most important comment in what you have posted is ” “Nobody is going to accidentally stumble on that treasure chest. They’re going to have to figure out the clues and let the clues take them to that spot,f” It’s like stumbling on the grave marker. The clues will take you to the spot where you could “stumble” and find the chest. This would lead to the thinking that it is covered, by rock, wood, something not “man-made”. Possible a hole of some sorts was already their. Place chest in hole, cover with round rock. The word “discover” comes to play.(disc over).
      If you are one to tie hoB to the Brown centipede, then quite possible covered by log or tree stump. This could be why if you found hoB you’d go right to the chest.
      You make a good point though. He never said to take a shovel. With all the warnings he has given, and all the advise of what to expect in the mountains, to not say at one point that a shovel may aid is something to think about.
      Who knows, it may be under a disc shaped rock, which is under a dead, rotting out log. One thing for sure, it’s not out in the open for everyone to see. Being out in the forest, one could see that stuff just falls everywhere, it has to be covered in some way by now, thank god the poem puts you within stumbling distance.

      • ‘alopes’ posted earlier on this page:

        “IMO I think that he was referring to when he said ‘if he was standing where the chest is’, he didn’t say ‘if I was standing by the chest or near the chest or next to the chest’. So I think that was another way of saying that it is buried/hidden and IMO not in a river and not in a tree and not in plain sight or behind a tree or in a cave.”

        I am joining the “I think it is buried” camp. As in ‘he dug a hole and buried it’
        I don’t think it’s just hidden under under bark, pine needles, or leaf litter. my opinion of course.

        -Randawg.

        • Randawg – no offense, but you probably don’t live in the Rocky Mountains. Anyone who does knows how difficult it is to dig a hole here. It’s called the Rocky Mts. for a reason – it’s rocky, everywhere! And he wouldn’t want someone to find it accidentally or through use of a metal detector (in fact, he said that technology would not help anyone), so that would mean he’d have to dig a very deep hole. A 79-year old man digging a deep hole above 5,000′ in the Rocky Mountains? I would say not likely.

          • I wouldn’t trust that video. The same reporter called the chest wooden. However, I do agree that if you have it narrowed down enough and have followed all of the clues he has given, it will be easy to find.

          • Yes ‘hear me all’ I have seen that video.
            I don’t really trust when reporters (or anyone else) tells us what Fenn said, although I agree that if you know the correct hiding spot you won’t have to ‘dig around’ or disturb the whole area, you will just need to dig once.

            -Randawg.

    • Randawg- First off I like the picture. Its cute. Second, I don’t want to disagree with you, I just want to know why you believe so whole-heartedly that the chest is buried. What statements/clues have led you to this conclusion?

      • I never said I believe whole-heartedly it’s buried. Only the person that posts a selfie with the treasure will be sure. I am only offering it as a possibility and so far I have not heard any convincing theories otherwise. Thank you for your comments.

        -Randawg.

  72. I believe the chest will be hidden beneath a pile of rocks, or beneath a large flat stone (a scant) which covers the chest in a recessed hole like where he and Charmay found the smoke-smudged poetry jar on page 219 of TFTW. I believe either of these stone hidey places will blend in to the surroundings, and only someone searching for Fenn’s treasure would take note about their surroundings to think about uncovering it. This is based on the original lines of the poem “Look quickly down beyond the stones, Take the chest but leave my bones.” I don’t have the source of this but it made its way around the blogs for several years.

    • As you have just stated, Cynthia, I agree. You said it well. As I recall… If you have been wise and found the stones, Just take the chest and leave my bones. Buried? Perhaps. Under a pile of stones? Not under the level of ground? Below the level of ground under a flat stone?Maybe? Maybe. May be. Schroeder’s cat can make one say “Hmmmm.” IMO of course.

  73. Thanks Cynthia.

    I hope that your quote is correct, or close to it. It just might be my
    “Missing Link”…my validation for looking one last time, in one last place.

    Thanks again. JDA

  74. ‘f you have been wise and found the stones, Just take the chest and leave my bones’. I know I’ve mentioned this before, but that is a bit of good poetry there I must say” —Keith Richards

  75. Remember the recent scrapbook where he mentions taking out the two 300 year old repeater watches and replacing it with two 5″ mirrors?

    Why are they 5″?
    Why two of them?
    Are the IN the chest?

    My opinion is:
    I think the chest 5″ tall chest is on a slab of granite above the ground in a area where its patina will match the surroundings.
    One 5″ mirror is on the west side of it
    The other 5″ mirror is on the east side of it
    It is surrounded by a large rock formation leaving gaps for the mirror to reflect through if you look at it from the east or west at sunup or sundown appropriately.

    He never said you need a shovel, just a sandwich, flashlight, and gloves. So no digging is likely.

    You can look right at it and not notice it due to the mirrors, rocks, and patina. It is exposed to the elements, but secure enough that it cannot be knocked over by wild life, and the rocks are placed naturally to help keep it stable. It will not be obvious unless you know what and where to look.

    It is not in water, else it would be frozen in the winter and FF has said if you knew exactly where it was, you could get it any time of year although he does not suggest we look in the bad weather/winter due to other dangers.

    We also know due to what he said, it isn’t in a cave or a mine, and not located in close proximity of a structure or human trail. I take “structure” to mean man made, meaning it isn’t near something created by a human or an animal.

    Since trees burn and rot, I do not think it was covered by tree branches, although there are likely trees nearby. Rocks are not permanent either, but if they are large enough they will probably be around much longer than a tree. They will of course shift around, but depending on the size, that could take decades or a century to happen unless something major happens, in which case no place will be secure, certainly NOT in the base of a canyon or tight draw since they are prone to flooding, mudslides and rock slides. High ground is most likely. Also streams and rivers move all the time, it is likely not near the edge of a creek, stream, or river prone to flooding every year.

    • Seems to me that he simply exchanged one “repeater” for another. After all, is not the mirror a repeater? It “repeats” the image in front of it.

      So maybe he is hinting at replication. Perhaps something, or somewhere, that is a replicate? Maybe the 300 years plays into that?

      hmmmm…….

      • Well my theory on the repeaters is something else I posted in the 9 clues section regarding my “flying” interpretation of the poem.

        For example I doubt he would have ever considered putting 300 year old repeater watches into a chest that he knew would be exposed to the elements. IMO, one idea is that he is referring to using two VOR beacons like you would to intercept a specific position.

        You have two VHF radios, just like his Piper did. One is tuned to one VOR and you are on one of its outbound radials. The second VHF is tuned to a different VOR and you are going to intercept one of its radials. When your gages indicate the correct location, you are exactly where they intersect (you are the 3rd point, NAV1 and NAV2 are tunes to the other two frequencies).

        In my other post I go into more detail of how stanza 2 could be describing an approach that begins oh 10 miles out. Its not 10 miles at all airports, but probably many, but how many aiports also have a valid WWWH 10 miles along the approach vector from the south, and how many runways can you put-in and be below a hoB?

        Also “what if” the blaze is the runway? Or maybe the blaze is created by you using two VOR beacon towers that are well documented for a long time forward? Heck most planes today use FMC or GPS control, but the VOR/DME and even the VTACs are still used today.

        This could have been FF flying in with treasures, and yes, I know he sold the plane in 2002 and his license expired shortly before. But I still say he hid the chest in 2002 or 2003, this left him up to 8 years to change his mind before putting the book out. FF says he hid it when he was 79 or 80, which would mean 2009 or 2010, but he also says that he only needs to tell the truth 15% of the time. In addition, in TTOTC he mentions that some people, such as Eric Sloane lied about their age saying they were born years later than their real birth date. Well perhaps he hid it when he was 71 and added 9 years, one for each clue? LOL

        Anyway, check this video out
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbWbMVrVrUs

        • Incidentally, if he only needs to tell the truth 85% of the time as a non fiction writer, 85% of his age in 2010 is what, 68? So being 71 years is within his margin of fibbing or 15%. lol

          Did he not say that he could have changed his mind and went back to get it? Well if he hid it in 2010 or even 2009 he didn’t have much time to not do it. Seems to me more like he finished the poem roughly 13-15 years (remember the 15% fibbing rate) after 1988 which takes us to 2001/2003. Then he had time to think, revise the poem, write the book, and call it a day.err decade. This of course also allows for him traveling further than NM.

          Oh well, until someone finds it, everything is a guess. Regardless of when it was done, flying is a possiblity.

        • WyMustIgo—– I remembered this quote from Forrest after I read the above post you made:

          “Mr Fenn, of all the things you have done in your life, what is it you regret the most?” ~Matt

          I have many regrets Matt, and to reveal a few I have to expose one of my fault lines.

          I regret that I’m not a cello player. I think the music from that instrument is the most soothing. It also may be healing. I would be the world’s greatest cellist were it not for talent because I have everything else, desire, patience, motivation, willingness…Once, in the starry-dark of night, I heard a cello in the far-faint distance. It sounded like the moan of a mountain wind beaconing me”

          I though it was curious that he used the word “beaconing” instead of “beckoning. What does VOR stand for out of curiosity?

          • Warning: The hobby is EXPENSIVE

            If you do buy FSX, do not buy it on steam, just buy the gold version or a different one and patch it. The steam version has issues should you want to expand it with addons like what I linked above.

            Pure3 is based on the FSX code, but Lokheed Martin changed it and updates it. It is more expensive, but not worth it IMO.

            Another great one is X-Plane, however it really lacks in 3rd pary support and requires even more horsepower than FSX.

            The scenery above of the Rockies is very detailed, and it is based on real world then hand tweaked geomentry files from satellites (DEM files). Obviously the buildings may not be accurate, but the roads, towers, major cities, waterways, airports are very accurate.

            With the weather engine, you can pull in real time weather. If its snowing in a park in Colorado, it will be snowing in your plane too. Or, you can make the weather whatever you want, same with the time of day (by default it uses the time where you are flying).

          • One thing I need to add so that you don’t have great expectations. The geometry is good, probably better than GE. However, you will not see all surface buildings such as old dwellings, accurately placed houses, etc. The structures, other than airports (which are very accurate if you buy scenery for them) are simulated. If you want to see buildings and other things accurately, GE will do it.

            What this is good for is trying virtual flights and learning how to navigate. The navigation structures and placements are VERY accurate and will match real life nav charts.

            One other important thing. The point data for the airports is by default like 10+ years old. Every year magnetic deviation changes things, SID/STAR patterns change, etc. and if you want FSX to be accurate, you need to update what is called AIRAC data. The AIRAC data that ships with FSX is 0504 (dated 4/15/05) . It changfes every 1/4 I think and you can get updated data from here (for a cost of course):

            http://www.navigraph.com/

            Then you need to run 3rd party utilites to update the runway data and nav data using the new AIRAC. Then after that, if you are flying a commercial airline, you need to update its flight computer with AIRAC Cycle. Basically you want everything running with the same AIRAC Cycle. If you don’t do so, navigation will be way off including runway vectors.

            In the real world this data is on servers and gets updated by operations.

            Over time the magnetic deviation gets extreme enough that some runways will change numbers (For example in FL a Tampa runway changed a few years ago).

            It is a fun hobby though. I have an addon that makes the ATC controllers sound like Rednecks.

            Don’t blame me if you spend a few grand though, all for “virtual” stuff, lol. But it is a heck of a lot cheaper than the real thing. Plus if you ever do take pilot lessons, you will know the instrumentation already.

      • Another option is reflection of time past… a mirror shows only what was… even on the smallest of time scale.
        The other idea of “replicate” works as well. Looking into a pool of water to see what is there, but not really ‘there’. Tarry scant with marvel gaze?

        Sometimes you just climb a hill to see what’s behind you… Instead of looking at ones shadow/replication/mirror… see it from the shadows point of view. { warning: objects are closer than the appear }
        I like the word replicate, Loco… recreate, exact copy, ‘photocopy’?

        • Time definitely taken out for a reason, ever reflect on eternity by standing between 2 mirrors?

  76. From the ‘What’s it Worth…Really!’ post on this site:

    “The gold includes 265 coins, pre-Columbian animal figures, gold dust, placer nuggets and two pre-Columbian, hammered gold “mirrors”. The mirrors are 4-5 inches in diameter and have holes in them for wearing.”http://dalneitzel.com/2012/11/25/whats-it-worth-really/

    -Randawg.

  77. Nice reasoning Wy, I only question that the “mirrors” are on the outside of the box and intended to reflect sun rays. I assume the pre-columbian gold disks were highly polished for reflection, but even if protected by surrounding rock, wouldn’t they lose their shine in one season of weather exposure (moisture/dust/spider webs/ blown-in leaf debris, etc.)? Shiny gold sitting on a protected shelf in an antique shop gets dull soon.
    I doubt that 5″ is a hunt hint … it just happens to be the size the pre-columbians made the disks for their own purposes. I do think Forrest may have included “mirrors’ for their intrinsic value (gold, history, etc) but also to affirm a hint about the concept of “mirror” or reflection, or memoir. He did put the word mirror in quotes in that scrapbook.

      • Exactly my thoughts too OS2. Now even though he said they are in the box, maybe they are and he added two more mirrors and that was a hint. Why else go through the trouble of saying the two watches were there (they look Photoshopped anyway) unless you want to throw the searchers a bone. Consider this, repeater watches were invented 300 years ago, they would be extremely valuable, why on Earth would he even had considered it knowing the hidey spot is going to have exposure to the elements. The watches would be destroyed IMO.

        I think he said mirrors for a reason, I mean the whole scrapbook is very odd… Copyright message… all of a sudden after 6 years he “finds” a more recent picture?

        I believe the watches were a second hint, in the form of a 300 degree radial from some position meant to be intercepted while en-route towards a destination. With a current position plus two more points (two VOR beacons for example), you can form a point if you know the distances from the two locations to intersect.

        unfortunately only FF knows because nobody else seen the exact chest contents before it was closed. It probably looks nothing like what Doug Preston seen, in fact he may have seen a copy of the chest IF the real one was hidden years before (remember, FF only needs to tell the truth 85% of the time).

        Well… plus the theory sounds cool, happens to also be the way magicians hide something in plain sight. Remember this, if there is any growth possible around the chest, with a mirror he can be sure the chest will reflect its current environment back at you.

        I think they are east and west because he can add the coolness factor of the sun beams like Indiana Jones would. I don’t think it was meant for only 2 times a day though, I think it was really to conceal the chest almost in plain sight like an illusionist.

        BTW, one could also say WISE means W-IS-E, or in other words if you are on the west looking east, you will see the west reflected back at you late in the day. If you are on the east looking west, it reflects the east back in the AM. Some might consider that messing with the poem though, lol.

        • “I mean the whole scrapbook is very odd… Copyright message… all of a sudden after 6 years he “finds” a more recent picture?”

          In an earlier post fenn showed other pics he retrieve from and external modem. I believe at that time he said he had more to go through… so I’m not surprised to see this one. Hope to see more actually.

  78. I took time to reflect on the thoughts above and come to the conclusion they are hogwash. 🙂 just kidding

    • Sparrow, maybe you can deduce a meaningful reason Forrest had two time-pieces, and replaced them with two mirrors. Not kidding.

      • Since you guys brought up time-pieces/watches, have you considered that the word “wise” means clockwise or counterclockwise. I still like the idea of the “big picture” being a circle so a watch with hands/arms (radials) moving clockwise or counterclockwise might be part of the solution.

        • Cynthia,
          I tried the “two hands of a clock” approach for a while, but I couldn’t get the numbers to “precisely” agree.
          Geoff
          “Have flashlight, will travel”

      • Because he was once a two-timer but changed his ways–he became a person who is very watchful about what they do.

        • I hope that you were trying to be funny Sparrow, otherwise Forrest just might take great offense – Just a thought. JDA

          • JDA—

            Yes– it was just a joke—-but you’re right—it was not in good taste. My apologies to Forrest—-I know you are a very faithful husband and love your wife dearly.

            Thanks JDA–your’re right.

            OS2— I’m not really sure if it symbolizes anything. he thought twice about the two time-pieces vs. the environment, and decided to replace them with two mirrors. But there could be a symbolic reason for doing so also.

          • I think Joe has a very sarcastic sense of humor and a lot of people don’t get it.
            I’ve haven’t had a lot of time to spend on the blog today and I’ve had terrible issues with the pages loading slow so I’m having trouble following conversations and it’s really frustrating. I just caught a word here and there and I may have misinterpreted Joes comment.
            My family seriously thinks I’m losing it with my interest if f’s puzzle and my hubby is out of town and it’s always stressful taking care of everything while he’s gone.
            Im almost positive Joe didn’t mean to offend. And I’m sure he would apologize profusely to f if he could. I’m sure something got misinterpreted somewhere along the line.
            After I take care of dinner I’m gonna try to get on the blog and catch up what I missed today.

          • Thanks WyGirl. Yes– my humor is too sarcastic a lot of the time. I respect Forrest greatly and would never say something demeaning about him. I love sarcastic humor— my Dad was a master at it, so I tend to think like him. Thanks for the post.

          • Haha Joe! Just now managed to make it back on the blog, busy evening with dinner and homework and calls to daddy cause he’s out of town.
            You always make me laugh! My brother-in-law is the king of sarcastic humor and most of the time it’s hard to tell if he’s joking or not. But he’s really really funny, but most people think he’s weird or being mean and often take offense.

        • Sparrow,
          I think you’re talking about another type of thrill of the chase…
          See, it take a dry sarcastic warp sense of humor to see one…lol
          Youv from New Yark? we should git tagethor for some cawffee.

    • OS2—-

      Actually I have thought about that before. In Revelation are the words “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the End.

      TWO Omegas would seem to symbolize two different “ends”. So I have thought that it is possible that the poem is a reflection—but that it also leads to two different conclusions—-picking the right one is part of the test.

      Two major acrostics in the poem seem to suggest this: GAIT at the top of the poem, and BAIT at the bottom of the poem. Are there TWO paths one can take in the poem?

  79. I like this deeper way of questioning . They touch on some interesting questions I asked myself while on “The Chase”. There were many times along the way I came across ideas, definitions, concepts, and even perspectives that begged me to ask the question “At this point, who’s eyes should I be seeing this from?” I could, at these “crossroads”, imagine many people from many walks of life, all with their own unique knowledge base, arriving exactly where I was by way of a different “path”. IMO I don’t beleive this to be accidental, rather by design. Although that may partly speak to the architecture of the poem, I beleive it speaks volumes to the “Hiddey Space”. I will say this. ” Forresrt Fenn hid a treasure within our own preconceptions of what we think we know.” Better still, he turned it into the figurative Tower of Babel in reverse. Don’t get me wrong. I absolutly beleive the treasure is out there. I just see a lot of commonality in many thoughts and in the ever increasing” Table Talk.” It’s only in this commonality, these underlying connectives that we are finally be able to truly appreciate and apply the lessons.

    Just a thought. Good luck friends.

    mthead

    • Mildew relies on warmer temperatures and stagnant humid air to prosper……(your effort will be worth the cold)

      • Thanks Bbc.
        Wiki says: “Preventing the growth of mildew requires a balance between moisture and temperature either in such a way that minimal moisture is available in the air and the air temperature is low enough to inhibit growth (at or below 70 °F (21 °C) without causing condensation to occur….”
        So it means that the hidey space is cooler than 70° year round.

        -Randawg.

        • Like a cold desert? Like the Red Desert? Did anyone know that part of Wyoming used to be part of Texas?

  80. Todays project is to sort through my massive MAP collection…I’m gonna catalog and index them so that they are in “GOOD” order for easy reference. When I finish I’m gonna pat myself on the back and take a break and think a little bit about Bigfoot. NOT.
    Then…my next project… I’m planning on taking “Nine” select MAPS of my search area…and arrange them in correct order and overlay them all onto each other and get my super duper magnifying glass out. I just know that this is gonna reveal the correct “Hidey Space”. @ 4pm EST the local Tarot reader is stopping over and we’re likely to put an end to this madness. I asked her to bring her Crystal ball just in case the cards don’t reveal what I want them to. @8pm EST we’re heading down to the river for a séance….film at 11.

  81. I’m trying to make sense of what the hidy spot could be…

    Doubt if it’s buried, because of Legal Ponderings and because much of the ground is rocky and not suitable to dig. The other reason is: he wouldn’t want the chest to be damaged by a pick or shovel.

    In my experience, fallen logs are too heavy to move and usually embedded in the ground. I doubt FF would just drop the box behind a log. Cutting branches and covering the box is a possibility, but that doesn’t seem to stand the test of time.

    I don’t think it would be elevated at all–it’s 40lbs and would be hard to hoist.

    I keep coming back to the idea he brought in a “prop” that covers the TC–like a fiberglass rock or tree stump that it fits inside. I don’t think he would rely on finding something in the wild–this detail would be well thought out. I kind of like the “listen good” to clue one of those outdoor speakers that looks like a rock. Would blend in, be light weight, and they are large enough to carve out a 10x10x5 hole.

    The only other thing that comes to my mind is placing it in a shallow pool of a small stream.

  82. “he wouldn’t want the chest to be damaged by a pick or shovel.”
    I like that statement Whut. I would add: “..or in water” (IMO)
    He never said to bring a shovel, but he did say to bring gloves.
    To me that means it could be hidden above ground and ‘buried’ with rocks or dirt(?) (or both?) I agree it could be in or under something, but not something man made. Mr Fenn would consider it an insult to hide an ancient bronze chest inside a plastic rock. Remember it’s in a place that existed when he was young and he expects will be around for many years to come.

    • I believe the chest sits in the middle of a meadow…just like his Dad used to leave the camping gear every year.

        • lol…

          I did go fishing. I caught large mouth bass on floating fish food.

          The meadows I am talking about are in an area that not many folks travel to. There is more to it but this is all I will say for now.

          • It’s all good Rick,
            A bad day or night of fishing is better than not catching anything 😉
            Trout it out.

      • In a meadow? Man, I must be missing a lot of fenn’s comments lately. Is that from the tftw book?
        The last time I heard about the family hiding there summer gear was in an interview in the Daily Beast [2013]… but no mention of a meadow.

          • Drive about 2 miles into YSP…[talks about covering the supplies with a tarp]… “I mean, there are no airplanes up there”…[talks about porkys] … “people weren’t going through YSP in the 1940 when the war was on like they do today.”

  83. He said to bring a GPS. He also said he made two round trips from his car in one afternoon. I believe he said to bring a GPS because it is hidden at an EXACT coordinate. And no matter how remote a place appears, there is always a chance for someone to be hiking or hunting there. With that, I don’t believe he would have chosen to hide it on top of the ground in plain sight. GE doesn’t go down that far? Perhaps he wasn’t commenting about clarity but rather about distance (below the surface). Just my opinion.

  84. Forrest’s comment about… IF someone was within 12′ he couldn’t imagine them not finding it…makes me think that being that close might have some challenges attached. Like being on top of something…or under something or in the middle of something…OR….

    • Ken,
      I think the challenge at this point [IF within 12′] and [keeping in mind this comment from fenn was a correction of a misquote by a searcher]
      What do we need to do to unhide a hidden chest?
      A blaze in simple terms is a mark/marker. But, that marker is used as a pointer / direction in most cases. So, how does one find a hidden chest that by all means would not be stumbled upon?
      1. The blaze/marker could be the exact location of the chest.
      OR
      2. The blaze/pointer can only be utilized during a certain time or period of time [pointer].
      OR
      3. There might be a possibility that some of the clues present the Blaze… line of thinking. A Triangulation of the clues. A design of the Clues. Is the Blaze a single Object? In a word, Yes. But is the use of the Blaze/marker/pointer made up of other things [ clues ] ? that need to be utilized as one. Contiguous; neighboring, touching, adjacent, next or together in sequence.

      How do we get to a 10″ sq spot precisely that should not be stumble upon, and only by the clues within the poem?
      And yet, fenn was thinking down the road…
      “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”
      This comments begs the question… Why can’t it “be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic”?

      • Seeker;
        It is my opinion that it CAN be done on a week-end or on a summer break, but ONLY if ALL of the clues have been solved beforehand – YES, I said ALL of the clues.

        It is my belief that BOTG are really needed ONLY to retrieve the Treasure Chest. I think that with a LOT of work, all of the clues can be solved from ones armchair, with the poem, the book, and a good map.
        (OH yea – and a GOOD dictionary)

        I guess I will find out when mother nature takes off her mittens. Just my opinion. JDA

        • JD,
          ‘It is my belief that BOTG are really needed ONLY to retrieve the Treasure Chest.”

          Perhaps your kidding yourself?

          SB 167- – How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?)

          FF: All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.

          Notice he says ‘find’ not retrieve. I wouldn’t wait for those mittens too long…I’m getting thirsty. Ha!

          • I don’t have to wait & see JDA.
            I already know you have disregarded many things F has said.
            You may want to cancel your trip & pay your bet with Ckid.
            You would save a lot of money & maybe more.

          • Colokid – When JDA has to pay up, enjoy each sip. Maybe then he will realize that meanings of words play no part in the correct solutiin.

          • HMA and Jake;

            If I were you, I would spend more time contemplating the poem, instead of worrying about Colokid and me. I still have until April 5 to find the TC, and as far as I am concerned, I am right on schedule – That bottle of Segrams will do fine for celebrating the find – Thank you very much! JDA

          • FF: All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.

            Makes ya think about Little Indy comment ~ “can not get closer” then the first two clues.
            In theory, all the clue can be decoded… so how dang close are all the clues?
            The more time goes on I’m liking ~ Not far, but too far to walk ~ a ‘whole’ lot better.

            Certainty beforehand…

          • JDA – You seem very confident. That is a great quality if you’ve put forth the effort to solve the poem.

            I’ll sweeten the pot a bit and provide you with an offer. If you find the chest on your next search trip I will buy you an entire case of Seagrams. If however you do not find the treasure chest on the next trip you agree to throw away your “solve” and you will owe me one hard biscuit. When I say throw away your “solve”, it means you have to start over with a completely different approach. I of course would want my hard biscuit too. Do we have a deal?

            If you need time to think this over, I will understand. Not everyday that someone offers up an entire case of Seagrams.

          • HMA;

            You finally offered up something, but alas, I will decline. I only drink on the rarest of occasions, so a case of Segrams would go to waste. #2, I have learned something from every trip out, so – on the small chance that I do not find it, I am unwilling to throw away my solve…you sure seem threatened by my solve HMA., or else you would not aks me to tear up my solve. Poor HMA! SOOO threatened!!! If not this trip, soon HMA – soon! JDA

            JDA

          • JDA: ” on the small chance that I do not find it ”
            You are such a joker.

          • HMA,
            Does that consideration of tossing away your solve apply to you as well?
            While ya’ll are betting and bragging, how about ya’ll put your failed solves [ after your one needed search ] up for the folks here to see what all the fuss was about…
            Yep, that includes
            JDA
            HMA
            Zap
            IW
            Oh, and I challenge ya to get a better pic of natures wild than the great pics DG posted… That little Alvin must have terrorized the camp.

          • Sorry Seeker;

            As I said, I have learned something on every search, so I am not yet ready to show my hand. The betting is still going on, and the size of the pot just gets bigger, so I will stay in the game.

            Once I decide that I have played this hand out completely, I will have won the pot, and will show my winning hand, or even if I loose – once the game is over, I will show my hand. … and you can bet on that JDA

          • JDA – I made the offer not because I feel threatened, but in hopes that you might think. I offered you something with much greater value (monetarily) than what I would be getting in return. Maybe if I had offered up gold coins, your decision would have been different. It’s water under the bridge at this point though.

            I fail to see how I could feel threatened by someone who searches in a state that I don’t. And in a place that Forrest never talks about. Seems like a memoir would contain stories about special places throughout life. You must see things differently than I.

          • Seeker – I can’t speak for anyone else on your list but for me it’s one last trip to find the chest or bust. I found out about the Chase last year and took 3 trips. 1 involved too much snow to do anything and on the other 2 trips I couldn’t understand why the chest wasn’t where I thought it would be. Each time I convinced myself that I needed to do something different after I had searched. After my 2 BOTG searches and having another searcher check the same area again last year, I had to either keep doing the same thing over and over and expect different results or change my way of seeing things. I chose to change the way I viewed the poem. It wasn’t easy and didn’t come easy but I do feel very good.

            I feel strongly that the chest will be found this year by one or more searchers. If it isn’t, I will hang my hat up and let others continue to work the poem. Somehow I don’t think that will happen. 🙂

          • I’m glad we lose an hour tonight reading all the BS.
            One hour less of the BS & 1 hour closer to those that think they have it.

          • Jake – Or it bumps up the finding of the chest by an hour so that everyone can move onto other tasks. It’s just a matter of how you see things.

      • I say…perhaps a searcher can be sure of the location…but must become familiar, more intimate with the locale in order to find the hidey space and the exact location of Indulgence…

        • Ken;
          I have a very clear picture in my mind, garnered from the poem, of exactly what the local will look like, once I get there. All I have to do is match up what is pictured in my mind with reality. IMHO JDA

          • Keeping that CLEAR picture in your mind…JDA…and the stark REALITY outside your mind….I believe that those are two completely separate and distinctly different locales. No harm no foul…just keeping with the odds after thousands have believed the same as you… Good luck just the same…adjustments might be in order.

          • I agree JDA. Most searchers rush to their search areas and then wander around aimlessly. I think developing an idea of what the hidey space is or might look like is very important.
            (IMO)

        • Ken, intimate how?

          There may be many locals that are familiar with the location as fenn is. Yet we have been told that if wise and “found” the blaze… Does that imply in the poem or only found when on site?

          Let’s say, the blaze is functional and understanding how the blaze is used / works…Does that mean we “found” the actual usage of the blaze in the poem or only be seen on site, because we may need to use it?

          Example: some like the med wheel as where to start. If so, is the wheel used as a directional pointer?
          So an easy read of the poem… Why is it I must go… W Y. Tired and weak med wheel are place to start and now use 9 clues to point out a location…

          • Seeker;

            Consider this possibility: You see a picture or illustration in one of Fenn’s books. It is now in your subconcious – at a later date, you see “something” when you have BOTG. You immediately recognize it as the blaze, because you now remember seeing it in one of the books – Make sense? JDA

          • Nope…
            That would mean a critical piece of information “must” be in the book and without that pic or illustration the poem is useless…

            Meaning the blaze is in the book [ as a pic or illustration ] that in my mind is deliberate… no matter were it ends up / placed within the book.

            Fenn also stated the hints are in the “text” of the book… If some don’t wish to believe that is a true and accurate suggestion that fenn makes, well… what can I say?
            It also removes the thought that the poem holds all the information to located the chest.

            As far as the second book [ as you referred to the Book[s] ] IMO~ I highly doubt that a pic from that book would reveal the blaze… As far as I recall there was one clue in the book and was the lack of Canada not presented.

            There was another comment about the preface [ which I have not been able to verify ]… suggesting a clue there. Again, I recall reading about it but, don’t recall if it was directly from fenn.

            I’m allow to have a brain fog every now and then.

          • You make some good points Seeker, but I am confident that I am correct. I COULD have found the blaze without the PIC and/or illustration, but having seen them, it made recognizing the blaze much easier. To quote Forrest: “You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues.” f JDA

          • Minute 10:45, Q: Does the book give me any more information than I would get from the poem?
            A: “There are some subtle hints in the text of the book that will help you with the clues.  The poem will take you to the chest but the book by itself won’t.” f

      • I tend to think outside the box at times so when I hear the comment about no one will stumble upon it I wonder why that is…? Does this mean it is tucked away under something or…could this comment mean the chest sits somewhere the average person will not walk…? IMO…most folks tend to stay on trail. Could the chest be in an area that is wet, muddy, bug infested to the point that the average person will not wonder off trail?

        I recall a question that was asked on Jenny`s site a few years ago about the four elements affecting the hidey spot. As I recall…Mr f said earth could not hurt it, it was most likely wet already, wind could cause damage…and he leads us to believe that fire could hurt it but nevers says it can.

        If wind could cause damage…then how could the chest be covered in any way…?

        • Tornados… They are rare in the mountains… But as fenn said… Nature makes her own rules.

          Fenn also stated that he didn’t want someone to pry open the chest and ruin it…The reason for it is unlocked and the key inside.

          That should help a little to think fenn has the chest somewhat in a protected place.

          • “…I don’t think earth can hurt it, under the right conditions wind might affect it, it’s probably already wet, and look at what fire did to the twin towers. Nature makes her own rules, so I try to not be absolute when talking about her.ff”

            “Don’t be too confused by my wind comment. Tornadoes are wind and there aren’t too many landscapes that they can’t change. I’ll admit there aren’t too many tornadoes in the Rocky Mountains, but they do occur once in a while. ff”
            http://mysteriouswritings.com/nature-makes-her-own-rules-says-forrest-fenn/

          • I agree they are rare in the mountains and I do agree with you on this.

            What I get from reading/listening to Mr f it seems to me he likes the beauty of the outdoors, in the mountains, along the river banks ect…makes me wonder if the place he chose to be his resting place would actually be hidden, protected.

        • An F-4 tornado touched down in Wyoming, (Tetons) in 1987.

          Colorado at Pikes Peak also.

          It happens.

  85. Seeker, Rick….
    Both of you have touched on aspects of the hidey space and the possibilities of how Mother Nature may affect the location of the chest. Fenn has stated that he thought of everything and I tend to use that fact in sizing up how he may have “secreted” Indulgence. There are quite a few different scenarios depending on the actual location. Crevices, natural over hangs, depressions in earth or many other naturally made hides. He could have put it in the middle of a clearing in a depression with only the lid exposed…I could go on and on. My BOTG “vacations” have taught me that there is always something new around the corner, things that I did not see or notice previously. Some have been uh uh’s and some have been possible aha’s . In the end…I think success will be measured by a thorough intimacy with the correct locale of the hidey space. Every nook and cranny will be etched into the finders memory. The Blaze will become the cornerstone and define without a doubt the exact spot. Do I know what it is? I think so…Do I know what the Blaze is? Heck, I wish I did…don’t we all? I believe also, he said that the chest may be scorched by a fire…maybe in that same statement. Onward Ho !

  86. What do you call Me. Fenn when he is scared out of his wits?

    Petrified Forrest.

    If this has been used before I apologize to the joke’s author– I really don’t like to steal comedy material. 🙂

  87. Seeker wrote “There may be many locals that are familiar with the location as fenn is. Yet we have been told that if wise and “found” the blaze…”
    ——————————————————————————————————-
    That’s a good observation, seeker. Too bad it got quickly forgotten as a result of all the blabber about personalities that followed your observation … How many great insights could we find in this forum, I wonder, if we actually looked for them?

    I’m sure there are locals who are at least semi-familiar with the chest’s general location. It would seem then that the “blaze” may not be something we would normally think of. Hence, locals may know the location, but do not think of it as a blaze. And I would agree that there is no illustration of the blaze in TTOTC.

    It does not necessarily follow that the blaze is the hidey spot. The blaze may be some landmark that gets us close to the hidey spot. And there are other possibilities in the relationship between the blaze and the hidey spot that I won’t mention.

    All of which suggests that to be “wise”, the searcher needs an open and imaginative mind to find the blaze … so that you will recognize it as such, unlike the locals who are looking, as most searchers are, for some popular, stereotyped concept of the blaze.

    Ken (in Texas)

      • Hey Clint, LOL… I’m confused more than ever… another brain fog I guess. I know I’m not the best person to criticize anyone’s explanation, But…
        What exactly are you saying?

        Hi ken, in Texas it is there, you need to do more home work, imo!!!
        Or
        Hi ken in Texas, it is there, you need to do more home work. imo!!!
        Or
        HI ken in Texas, it, is there you need to do more home work. imo!!!
        Or
        Wait…Whaaat…What is where?

      • Hi Clint,

        I’m in Texas and if I catch Ken in Texas doing my homework…..we’re gonna have a big problem! 🙂

        (uh, oh….is that Goofy headed this way?)

  88. ken- you post the best, clearest, most well thought out comments. I applaud you.
    The poem tells you how to find the blaze. You will never recognize it if you are not wise.
    The chest is hidden in an area where no normal hiker would walk, so no one will stumble on it.
    The wind comment has agonized me- i’m still not positive, but I think I know.
    Fire, rain, landslides, earthquakes, and wind, under certain conditions, could affect it!
    Tough poem

  89. Paraphrase from the 2012 Newsweek interview:
    “he [Fenn] emailed to say they [artifacts] had been backfilled back into the dirt at San Lazaro, but they weren’t happy there. “They’re in the dark,” he said, just like his treasure chest.”
    We know it’s not in a cave, mine, tunnel, or structure. But it is in the dark.
    So it has to be in or under something, and/or at least partially covered or buried does it not?

  90. TS Eliot in Little Gillding talks about the yew tree, you should look this tree up, the oldest is about 7,000 to 10,000 years old . If Mr Fenn planted one , and they are a mountain tree , this would mean he didn’t bury the chest, he planted it. The death tree .

          • Can’t blame ff for not wanting people to dig up the countryside on a whim. If a person does not have 9 clues and several more dozen hints “confidently” in hand, they should leave the shovel at home and learn to play “canasta” (whatever that is).

          • Mark Twain is credited with saying, ” Anyone who can only think of one way to spell a word obviously lacks imagination.” I think FF took this advice to heart.

    • bur·y

      1.
      put or hide under ground.
      “he buried the box in the back garden”
      2.
      completely cover; cause to disappear or become inconspicuous.
      “the countryside has been buried under layers of concrete”

      I think there’s a reason Mr Fenn has avoided that word. Hopefully we will be able to compare notes soon JD.

          • Number two rule from Forrest, Regret – Don’t regret what you have done, regret what you could have done!

          • That’s all right JDA , you just sound like a good search partner ( honest ) where you located, don’t have to say, if you’re close to an area of interest would you look at a solve of mine that I could email you? I know you like Wyoming but……..

          • Thomas;
            I live in Pocatello, ID. I am 74 with a heart problem, so probably am not someone to search for someone else. But thanks for the confidence. JDA

  91. Kidney stone, lots of dilaudid. not much searchin’ this week but sorry to hear of the ticker issues. Since St. Parick’s Day is still fresh in my mind and the drugs have worn off, I thought I saw Colorado somewhere in the haze of my mind. Then I came across some random words, “mirror….trappers…..shamrock….meeker…..and, uh, can’t find any of these things in the poem. Anyone working in this area? Disclaimer: The thoughts are those of the writer and do not necessarily those of anyone else ergo IMHO

  92. From the 2013 Hemispheres story:
    “What serious adventurers should remember,” Fenn says, “is to not believe anything that is not in my poem or otherwise in my book. There’s some misinformation out there. For instance, I never said I buried the chest, I said only that I hid it. That is not to say it is not buried, so maybe we need to define the terms. Does ‘hidden’ mean in plain sight? What is the difference between ‘buried,’ ‘entombed’ and ‘sepultured’?

    • Randawg;

      hidden in plain sight

      That which seems to be hidden, but actually is not hidden and is easy to find.

      Buried, entombed and sepultured seem to all have the same meaning, as far as I can discern. If the treasure IS buried, entombed, or sepultured will it still be “Hidden in plain sight”?

      Good question. I can visualize a circumstance where that could be the case – can you? JDA

      • I have never believed that the chest is ‘in plain sight’ but I think it’s hiding place could be. IMO.

        (Note: “Does ‘hidden’ mean in plain sight?” is posed as a question not as an affirming statement).

  93. All the discussion so far (on this and other forums) about “tarry scant”
    in the poem leads me to believe that FF is referring to — at least in one
    “layer” of the poem — a darkish slab of rock, possibly somewhat
    similar to a gravestone. And the phrase “marvel gaze” suggests to me
    that there would be something rather marvelous to see if one is in the
    right place. Perhaps something that is spectacular or extraordinarily
    beautiful? Or odd-shaped (that would catch your eye)?

    I can imagine that the TC might be resting on top a slab of stone, and
    therefore a bit difficult for a 3-year-old girl to reach . . . although her
    difficulty might instead be due to water about a foot deep. Maybe the
    TC is on wet ground — such as in a pond — but near the marvelous-
    looking local thing(s). I plan to consider both possibilities when I
    go BOTG searching this summer.

    • Hi TF.
      But tarry scant with marvel gaze could also be:
      Can start by rut, gravel maze.
      IMO.

  94. I have an interesting thought – I’m new so ya’ll bear with me if I’m repeating things you’ve already discussed.

    I’ve read TTOTC a few times now and spent last weekend reading Journal of a Trapper (https://user.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/ruslintr.html) twice. In that book, Russell mentions a place off of the Wind River where Tar comes up out of the ground, and it’s actually a beautiful place – could Tarry Scant be a play on words and Tarry actually means there’s tar?

    If that’s the case, here’s the spot where the tar is that is mentioned in the book (http://wyld.sdp.sirsi.net/maps/index.html?q=Tar%20Spring) I can’t imagine it being a special place to Mr. Fenn though. The other thing is that I think this spot is on a Reservation and that might not be a great place to go hiding treasures.

    Can I eliminate this from the search?

    I have a few other places that seem amazing based on reading that book, so I want to get this one out of my head.

  95. I was waiting on my truck, which was being serviced at the dealership and picked up a magazine in the waiting area.
    An article about the Lost City of Z was in the magazine.
    The first line of the story read …A line in Rudyard Kipling’s “The Explorer” reads: “Something hidden. Go find it”
    This too is a poem.
    How befitting since I am back in the chase. Maybe it is a sign or a weird coincidence?

  96. I think f hid the treasure in a fishing spot that is dear to him. It’s far enough from the stream to protect it from flooding. And yes it’s buried. Only someone who deciphers the poem will know precisely where to look for it. No one will stumble on it by accident. They will have to earn it.

    • That’s definitely a possibility, but I didn’t think even GPS location could put you close enough to a spot if digging is necessary. And I thought metal detectors weren’t legal to use in places like National Forests. Of course I could be wrong about that.

    • Iceman,

      You seem quite certain that it’s buried. Can you offer the line of reasoning that led you to that conclusion? Or, are you of the opinion that the poem tells us it’s buried?

      • I am not Iceman, but it is my opinion that it is buried, and that the [poem tells us that it is. JDA

        • JDA,

          Thanks for your opinion also. You may have different indicators (from the poem) than Iceman as to why it’s buried but, for me, I can’t see anything in the poem that points to the chest being buried, but that’s just my opinion.

          The concept that I am thinking of here is buried “in the earth” (i.e., dig a hole in the dirt, place the chest, refill the hole).

          One thing is for sure. If it truly is buried in that fashion, I won’t be the one wearing a grin on the way home. 🙂

          • The most compelling. Lue is the word “trove”. Look it up in more than one dictionary to be sure. I won’t explain more.

          • (At the Top)

            I do not believe that Forrest used a shovel, and dug a hole, but I believe that it is “Buried”. If you look up that word, you are usually shown two synonyms – Entombed and sepultured. Although they are listed as synonyms, I believe that there are differences in actual meaning that may be significant.

            I can’t say that I KNOW for a fact that it is buried, entombed or sepultured, because I have not yet found the treasure…but I think that I KNOW. JDA

          • JDA … before you go down that path, you owe is to yourself to find all the synonyms for the word “shovel” and then tell me if you see things differently.

          • I think you meant to write “sepulchred” instead of “sepultured”
            I like that possibility btw

          • Ok, I think I smell what you’re steppin’ in 🙂
            I’ve done some thinking on “trove” before, but I may have to revisit.

      • Sure. It’s the word “down” + ” below”. You follow the first eight clues to the location and when you don’t see it you know it’s buried. It’s the only place left that it can be.

        • That makes sense, and would mean the first 8 would need to put you on an Exact spot. If your solve can do that you might just be ahead of us all. Good luck this summer.

        • Thanks for your reply. Your line of reasoning makes sense to me.

          I’m in agreement that it’s not easy to see because Forrest has said that it is hidden, but I think there is a possibility that may be “entombed” or “sepultured.” I can derive some different meanings from those words when I compare them with “buried.”

          Can I assume your solve leads you to a precise location? What does precise mean to you…10 inches square, 10 feet square, etc?

          • No worries, just curious. I’ve had my (general) location since January 2016, but I had a lot of trouble understanding how to pinpoint the precise location within that area.

            I have a pretty solid theory on the method now (supported by the poem), but it requires BOTG to test it.

        • Blending in with its environment; partially and securely visible.

          Camouflaged.

          TWT.

      • It is of my entire belief that the chest is not buried or covered up due to ONE KEY POINT.

        “I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.:” -f

        Note this is a direct quote from Forrest in SB 78. Here he states it is not likely that ANYONE could get within 12 feet of the chest and NOT find it. Anyone. A kid, a searcher, an artist painting a grizzly that is walking towards him(hope he’s a fast painter), an illegal immigrant walking his way to the Canadian border, a zombie aimlessly rambling around, E.T. walking over to meet his UFO ride home, or any other thousand scenarios. Within all of them, only 1% or less is actually LOOKING for the chest, due the “anyone” rule.

        So the question becomes this…

        If the treasure is buried or covered over with rocks, or stuck inside a petrified dead log… how on earth could 99% of all the possible people in the world who are NOT LOOKING for the treasure, find it if they got within twelve feet of it?
        Well Forrest probably put a plaque on the ground that says “Dig here one foot down for millions of gold”.
        Knowing that Forrest would never do such a thing as it would counteract the “no one is going to come across the chest by accident” comment, It is a foregone conclusion that the chest is not buried or covered up.

        Hope that helps a little in explaining the logic behind it all. Oooh look at that clock! 😛

        • Good point Iron Will. But I repeat no one is going to stumble on it. Only a searcher that has solved the poem is going to get it. When you get within 12 feet you might see something that is telling but not necessarily the treasure chest. And hey remember it’s just my opinion.

        • Iron Will,

          Your point is well taken and you may be absolutely right in your interpretation of “anyone.”

          As an alternate way of digesting Fenn’s comment, one could consider the following line of thought:

          Perhaps Fenn didn’t mean literally “ANYONE,” but instead meant “any one searcher.” It certainly CAN be interpreted either way, but if context is taken into consideration, I would lean beyond 50 percent that he meant a searcher (just my opinion).

          Taking, as an assumption, that he was referring to a searcher, it makes sense to me that the searcher that was in the “Hidey Spot” (i.e., w/in 12 ft. of the treasure) wasn’t there by accident. They are there because they flat out figured something out and will confidently have the tenacity to riffle through that search area until they either find success.

          I suspect the treasure chest lies, unburied and with access to fresh air, in a location that a non-searcher would not normally go (perhaps in a brake or thicket), but that a bold, brave, and cold searcher would.

          • Iceman – thanks for the compliment. I definitely don’t want to stop thinking about all the angles, regardless of where I think I am in my solve.

            Participation on this site keeps us thinking (and it’s a heck of a lot of fun). For me right now this hunt is sort of like being a surfer without any waves to ride (bummer). Once the season really kicks in I definitely know which beach I’m headed to 🙂

            Seems that you take the same approach. There are some good thinkers here, glad to be participating.

        • Iron Will;

          As you quote Forrest, ““I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.:” -f The reason that it is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it is because of where it is at. A place not often traveled by someone who was NOT looking for the treasure. The clues in the poem will direct a person to this area/spot…and ONLY the clues. I believe that without the clues, if someone were to stumble into this area, that they could actually step on the TC and not know it. I can’t prove it (yet), because I do not possess the treasure, but soon, I hope. Just my opinion. JDA

          • Well said, JDA. I agree. Maybe hidden something like this from Scrapbook 164?: “OR IS IT NOT HIS THROBBING ANN, (WRAPPED IN SHROUD) AGAINST THE BREEZING COLD, YELLING WITH ALL SHE CAN, A SCREAMING VOICE SO LOUD, AND NOTHING THERE IS TOLD.”

        • And yet, “The chest weighs 42 lbs. plus. Best to wear gloves.” Under what conditions would it be best to wear gloves if there were no work involved?

          • The bottom edges of the TC may be
            kinda sharp. I plan to wear gloves, but
            not for digging. Possibly for handling
            other sharp objects such as rocks.

          • Good question Jeremy P. I’ve wondered that myself. My leather gloves came in handy on my last trip, but they weren’t wrapped around a shovel handle.

            Gloves (among other protective garments) also came in handy for Forrest when he retrieved that cougar out of White Horse Canyon (TFTW).

          • How about if it has been sitting in the sun most of the day when you find it… I am smart enough, having learned from experience, not to go touching metal that has been sitting in the sun. 🙂

          • Maybe it’s better if I quote it with the proper punctuation… “The chest weighs 42 pounds plus, best to have gloves.”

            There, now it’s all one statement separated by a comma. Seems less disjointed, and consequently less likely to be about pointy edges on the chest, or how hot it might get in the sun. It seems to be more a statement about what conditions regarding weight may require gloves. No?

        • @ Iron Will,
          Well Forrest probably put a plaque on the ground that says “Dig here one foot down for millions of gold”.

          C`mon man…that plaque has the “X” on it…lol.

    • Iceman you stated;
      ~”Only someone who deciphers the poem will know precisely where to look for it.”
      Seems we all have been told this by the author, so what’s new?
      ~ “No one will stumble on it by accident.”
      And was told this by the author as well.
      ~”They will have to earn it.”
      And again!… well you get the point by now, right?

      So are you saying you’ve done all that and you ‘know’ it buried because you actually solved the poem?
      … As i read the other posts, I noticed you have been asked similar questions and like most who like to say things they believe to be fact, such as; “And yes it’s buried.” seemingly always dodge the hard questions.

      You say the words below and down mean the chest is buried… So that would mean that hoB must be the Blaze, IF we are to look down from the Blaze, and below the hoB all to mean the place/blaze its buried. Right?

      I mean logically [ and without an explanation from you ] that’s the only plausible conclusion.
      What does stanza 3 say to you? It sounds like that stanza is not even needed…

      • I have provided more than enough reasons to back up my opinion that the treasure is buried … down, below, shovel, put in, trove. You don’t need to believe it.

        • Apparently you didn’t see the statements regarding, no tools or won’t be a big job to get it etc.

          You don’t need to believe me either. All you have to do is a little bit of research. I mean, you use the after the fact fenn’s comment as if they were your own thoughts… did ya miss the others?

          By the way.. where is “shovel” in the poem?
          ~ ” down, below, shovel, put in, trove.”

          • Seeker;

            Everything that you need to solve the poem is in the poem true BUT many things that the poem reference is NOT
            in the poem. The name of the city that is near where the treasure lies is not listed by name, but it might be referenced.

            The name of the canyon that you go down is not named, but it is referenced. etc. etc. etc. That is where imagination comes in Seeker.

            But what do I know? Probably nada.
            I personally do not think that tools WILL be required, but I will wear gloves. JDA

          • Seeker … you ask a lot of questions. Some I don’t want to answer because it gives too much information away. But I will try to answer your inquiry regarding the “shovel”. That word is not in the poem. But if you look up shovel in a thesaurus one of its synonyms is “put”. And that word is most definitely in the poem. Sometimes you have to guess, make a conjecture, and then prove it later. Mathematics is like that and in my opinion, so is the Chase. I hope that helps. If my words reflect what f said then nothing there should be contradicting. I certainly have no interest in taking credit for that.

          • LOL, well geewizz Sherlock, if you go far even, there’s a city “near” everywhere.
            If ya want to play semantics…where does it say in the poem; “canyon that you go down”?
            Does the poem actually say “YOU” must go down a canyon?

            But I get it, coming from a guy who barked he new the chest must be in water because the poem tell us… now claims, “but it is my opinion that it is buried, and that the [poem tells us that it is. JDA”

          • I guess that we all learn don’t we Seeker…at least that is what I feel that I have done. I am not stuck on one, and only one solution. If at first you don’t succeed… JDA

          • Yes JDA as long as you an keep an open mind and switch gears as you learn there is hope. Those with fixed ideas are not likely to progress. My opinion.

          • Hi Sueohara!
            I found a nifty little lightweight folding shovel on Amazon that also has a pickaxe head. I don’t believe that the chest is buried deep, if at all, but better safe than sorry! Also will be bringing gloves just in case. 🙂

          • This probably goes without saying, but don’t forget the flashlight and sandwich.

          • Seeker;
            To answer your question re whether YOU have to take the canyon down. I guess that it depends on what the meaning if “IT” is….sound familiar? If “IT” is interpreted to mean the journey or the quest, then it reads…”Begin the journey or quest where warm waters halt and take the journey or quest in the canyon down”…(Interp.) The only to take the journey or quest is if YOU (The searcher) make that trip, journey or quest…So yes, to ME the poem DOES say that I have to make that trip.

            Is it a physical journey that I must walk or drive? Can the “trip” be made by looking at a map, and not actually making the physical trip? I suppose, but at SOME point, BOTG will be necessary. JDA

          • @ Iceman,

            This probably goes without saying, but don’t forget the flashlight and sandwich.

            A serious fly fisherman knows why a flashlight and sandwich would be needed.

          • While fools argue about the guest he won’t even need a tool as he carries out the chest.
            Iceman; hope that you’ll look this up..

            JDA ~”The only to take the journey or quest is if YOU (The searcher) make that trip, journey or quest…”

            ..How many clues can only be decoded in situ?) FF: All of them, in theory,…

            Where is the journey IF they can be done at home??
            So, do we/”you” need to travel down a canyon?

          • As I said Seeker – BOTG are needed at one point or another. At least the last one, to go pick it up. One can not do that via the keyboard…you know that Seeker.

            One can overthink everything Seeker. The goal is to FIND the treasure Seeker, NOT to find as many ways as possible to prove something wrong. What’s the fun in that? Get out there and smell the sunshine Seeker. Think
            of at least ONE solve that will make you want to PROVE it is correct – NOT just disprove every ones solve. JDA

          • A searcher that doesn’t get off the couch and away from the smartphone will have trouble getting past the first two clues. That is if they ever get the first two clues. My opinion.

          • Search Kit – Not all contents described (some are Top Secret):

            Good shoes or hiking boots

            Cap or hat

            Trousers & long sleeve shirt (exposed skin didn’t pan out well for me last trip)

            Leather gloves

            Tactical backpack (to easily accommodate 10 x10 x 5)

            Bear Spray

            .454 Casull (further discouragement when Bear Spray empty)

            PIc-A-Nic Basket

          • There ya go again JDA. Did it ever occur to you that it may not take ten or twelve or 200 failed searchers to properly understand the poem?
            Certainty beforehand?
            How many clues… all of them…
            Ask; What took me so long?

            But hey, if you want to keep coming back from a search and now see it all in a new light, have all those great epiphanies… all that BS, I know where I went wrong on the way home postings… Fine by me. I would think after read fenn’s comments, one would start asking themselves the same question I present.. and that all the knowitalls complain about.

            I have never said listen to me, I simply bring up fenn’s comments to argue points of discussions.

            If ya’ll want to believe ya need a pick axe and shovels or the only way to solve the poem is botg only… dozens of attempts, and once more ignore the guy who created the whole thing… by all means knock your socks off.

            I myself am still attempting to figure out that “important possibly” for winning the prize.

          • Seeker;

            I am NOT trying to pick an argument with you. All I ask is that you read what I post before you comment.
            1) I said I do NOT think that a shovel (or pick) will be necessary, but that I WILL wear gloves (as Forrest once suggested)
            2) I said that I DO believe that BOTG are really ONLY required to pick up the treasure. One does have to get to the site, and that does require travel…as it happens, by going along the same path that the poem describes, but no STOPS are necessary until the final “end” spot is reached – then a short hike is required.

            READ what I say, and don’t distort what I say. IF I am wrong, so be it, but point out my errors, ONLY when I make them….and I have disclosed them, and I will deserve whatever criticism you have to offer.

            Have a GREAT night Seeker. JDA

          • Who else knows where the treasure is buried?
            I never said it was buried. I’ve avoided that word. I hid it. I don’t mean to imply that it isn’t buried. I just didn’t want to give that as a clue. It took me two trips in my car to hide the treasure. And I can tell you an 80-year-old man is not going to make a trip into a canyon, then come up and go down again. As for who else knows, I’m the only one. My wife doesn’t know.
            http://people.com/celebrity/author-forrest-fenn-talks-about-missing-treasure-hunter/

          • As your quote says – He neither says it is buried, nor does he say that it is NOT buried. Your quote proves nothing either way Seeker.

            I said you have to take a short hike from the end – I said nothing about going down a canyon – your quote disproves nothing.

            An 80 year old man could easily make two trips from MY “end” to the hidey place in one afternoon. Your quote disproves nothing Seeker. Quit trying to discredit me with posts that prove nothing.

            Some day you just might have to admit I was right, and you were wrong. Until then, kindly put away your quiver of misdirected arrows. Shoot at someone who has obvious errors that they have posted. Thanks JDA

  97. So I have this idea that you don’t want to draw attention to yourself (for safety) in the off chance you would find the treasure. I’m thinking of a heavy duty canvas bag that one could quickly slip the treasure in and then get it into a heavy duty backback. I think that would buy someone some time to take some photos/videos with the treasure tucked away on your back. You’d have to get it locked up straight away before making any kind of announcement. Right?

    I’m feeling confident that 2017 is the year it will be found. ; )

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