Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Eight

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Thanks…

 

dal…

695 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Eight

  1. It is my belief that I had entered there while uncertain. Though it may have been an adventurous choice and unyeilding, it is also my belief that I can continue in peace with that knowledge. Why? I do not yet know, but I have seen with eyes not my own.
    f, will you work on another hidey place so the finder of Indulgence can hide another container of days? Perhaps, it can be named Insperation.
    I’m sure most searchers can an will dismiss this commentary. I’m fine with that. Maybe it is meant for one. Eh, maybe a few. They say hindsight is 20/20, but what if your too far to see?
    Ponder yonder wonder.
    What an odd end

  2. Has it ever been determined if these 24 lines of his poem are metaphors or idioms? If the whole thing is composed of idioms, then you can’t take his “figures of speech” literally.
    I was looking over some of the 8,000 plus idioms @ Wiktionary, seems that Fenn made-up some originals. I am not sure about the Dichotomy angle, nor does cliché seem right.

    “cliché is an expression, idea, or element of an artistic work which has become overused to the point of losing its original meaning or effect, even to the point of being trite or irritating”

    Yeah, I’m afraid Fenn has released the ‘Idiom dogs of war on us’

    “Comprehension of idioms is the act of processing and understanding idioms.
    Idioms are a common type of figure of speech.
    Based on common linguistic definitions, an idiom is a combination of words that contains a meaning that cannot be understood based on the LITERAL definition of the individual words.
    An example of an idiom is hit the sack, which means to go to bed.
    It can be used in a sentence like the following: I’m so exhausted that I’m going to hit the sack now.”

    IMO

    • I am inclined to believe that idiom is not exactly the term we are looking for. But is close to it. their are plenty of things that are modifications or references to other sayings that without that context are meaningless.

      “Too far to walk” as an example: Is a meaningless and impossible statement. Their are people whom have walked across the United States. From that we can glean that their is either a time table of some sort. (too far to walk in a set amount of time) Or that it is impossible to reach the destination on foot (meaning that the “too far” is an artistic statement). Alternatively it can be a cultural reference such as “A bridge too far” but I don’t think I would call that an idiom so much as a reference.

      The point I am trying to make I guess is you must be at least partially right. Their are things that are nonsense in their literal expression.

      Many of my potential solves rely on several of the clues being references to common sayings. Including a few that revolve around a single word and a saying that goes with it.

  3. “Catch of the Day”

    http://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-and-weekly-words-the-cunning-fox/

    I thought about this recent Weekly Words this weekend and i believe that the use of red type by Forrest was key and it reminds me of his use of red type in TTOTC. If you remember Forrest used red type in the book to describe the signs that we found all over in the Kachina Gallery in Santa fe. DO NOT TOUCH!, Forrest found these signs very upsetting and he quickly put his hands in his pockets and left the store.

    So why is this important, well in this Weekly Words he uses the word Obtuse which simply means “annoying”, in response to Richards statement and questions Forrest uses Richard’s word “obtuse” and puts in it red type to add emphasis (also could be hinting back at TTOTC).

    Second note Forrest never answers Richards question but simply states that his sister (I assume June) once had a “fox” fur coat, which could mean fox or faux, but the real take to me is that Forrest was annoyed at Junes choice of a coat just as he was annoyed with the signs in the Kachina Gallery.

    Love you hear your thoughts.

    Have a great day and those searching be safe!

    • Interesting take on that Literate One. He did answer, just not the question. The gentleman was asking if he would be able to see the blaze from WWWH. We all know FF is never going to say anything to make us feel closer or farther away from the treasure.

      He did respond to the writer though.

      Richard wrote; “Knowing that the poem has been written in an obtuse (annoying) way with all of us having great ideas about the solve, some of which are so intricate, sensible, logical and still wrong”.

      Forrest wrote; If all of you have such great ideas about the solve, how can they be wrong?

      Yes, there are a lot of great research going into potential solutions. I have read quite a few that are well-thought and written beautifully. However, in FF’s mind, the only good solution is “His solution”.

      • Hi Med
        if you think real hard about that, yes the only good solve is ff solve. That’s because his isn’t a solve, his is a placement. I myself have two solves for two different locations. hopefully one will be right.
        i thought it was cruel the way that guy was trying to sound smart and insult ff at the same time. me, i’m not sure if you can or can not see the WWWH from the Blaze, but if you could then ff answering that question could almost give away locations so much as to narrow it down to much. I totally agree with ff and think he SHOULD NOT ANSWER that question. The “red” color ink, Forrest was MAD at the guys choice of words.IMO
        Good luck with your searches

    • Litter81,
      I agree with most of your incite with regards to Kachina Gallery.
      I have trouble following your logic on “faux” ie. I hear many talk about it, but I don’t follow how fox translates to “faux”.

      I didn’t get the feeling Mr. Fenn was annoyed with June for having a fur coat. In keeping with the relevance of the comment:
      “I am just thinking of the verse by TS Elliot and of course you being as cunning as a fox! My sister had a fox fur coat sir. f”

      It sounded more like Mr. Fenn being humble or modest. ie. foxes maybe cunning but they are not so smart as to avoid becoming a hunter’s coat.

          • Wolf,

            Also if you have been paying attention to “Hot threads” on other said blogs you might see some coincidences with what was said in the Weekly Words. I sea it but maybe I’m just seeing what i want to C.

          • They aren’t … except maybe to a redneck with a pickup and nine kids. 😉

          • one should avoid mocking people for mispronunciations. It means they learned the word by reading.

          • You are right, dys. I was trying to be cute by reusing Forrest’s words about who he wrote TTOTC for, but the attempt at humor shouldn’t have been at LitterateOne’s expense. My apologies.

    • I agree with some of what you have to say – especially about using red. To me, Forrest is a bit angry.

      A fuller definition of “Obtuse” = annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.
      To me, Forrest is expressing a bit of anger at someone who has failed to understand something – possibly an earlier weekly post.

      If all of you have such great ideas about the solve, how can they be wrong?
      Here, I think Forrest is saying, “If it was a great idea, it was not wrong – reconsider a past idea”

      I guess we shall never know for certain. A bit “Obtuse” I guess.

      • I’m pretty sure he said something about filling a pot full of blood or something like that B.lood is red. I don’t know who decides who “they” is or ideas something. Sometimes I fish when I have the energy to care, someone somewhere is enjoying shiny things Aye

      • JD,

        I disagree with Forrest being angry at someone for failing to understand something. He has said before that when in a conversation when something is said that he knows to be inaccurate he simply smiles and enjoys in the victory of being quietly smug.

      • Yes JD,
        Why else would you use red text?
        I wouldn’t dwell on it too much though.
        Does it really matter where the anger is pointed?
        I don’t care who or what he is angry at, if he is.
        I didn’t come here to worship anyone.
        Just to find the treasure.
        If I annoy someone, that’s there problem, not mine, and that goes for all.
        Speak your mind or mind your speak.

      • So why is it “it’s no place for the meek”?
        Or is there a different meaning that Forrest has in mind?
        Can you take this as face value?
        Or is there an underlying meaning we need to know.
        Joseph Meek?
        Meek as in submissive?
        I would have to think it has nothing to do with your insecurities & behavior.
        But a place.
        “From there”

      • Spoon

        As I quoted above, a fulled definition = A fuller definition of “Obtuse” = annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.

        • Hmmm I just looked up synonyms for obtuse and it states; annoying Seeker.
          But I don’t know if that means… insensitive or slow.

      • Spoon try Google. It has word meanings about obtuse that made me mad for ff.

        • I think Richard ment no harm. Lol remember words can take on multiple meanings. Maybe he was thinking with his geometrical brain. If that is the case it is actually a compliment saying the poem is broad and can give great merit to unlimited ideas. As to Richard if you read this, his interview at Moby Dickens Bookstore one of the early questions were asked by someone about, if following the clues will you go in circles and end where you started? His reply was no.

          • Besides a least he only got the Fenn degree. Tim Robbins used that word once and his punishment was much worse

      • Good one fellows. I can see I need a more complete set of dictionaries. Thanks for your help.

    • Hello Literate One,

      All IMHO of course, my initial response was similar to yours. Richard puts a message together stating the searcher’s potential solves are brilliant. At the same time slams f personally by saying his poem was written in an obtuse way.

      Obtuse: not clear or precise in thought or expression

      Seriously!? I don’t blame f for publicly calling out Richard. The poem is an acutely written, well architected treasure hunt.

      What I find very interesting is f’s response can also be interpreted as someone HAS solved the clues. Not necessarily discovered the TC, but figured out the clues. When someone gets within 200 or 400 ft (i don’t recall the exact quote) of the TC, that’s not a big stretch.

      The follow up comment about his sister and the cunning fox, tells me the solve was likely from someone of the female persuasion. It doesn’t point to anyone specific, but this is an exciting hint that someone was right…at least on paper. Seeing as how Richard stated he categorizes himself in the LGFI bucket, let’s hope the correct solve also came from someone who will have a hard time actually making the trip to find the chest.

      • I think. The key is. Water caynon. Creek blaze and wood and thats it. So narrow. Our though process. Focus. Tight. So lets see. War art cancer hmm. Lots of friends. Maybee he didnt even wright the poem. He could be playing out someone elses. Dying wish

        • Zealous, trial engaged. Welcome friends measured with yardsticks. Possible corner of cancer was dispatched.
          Register aid struck. TTOTC emblems in memorial. Woodland era grows macabre as a duckling cast forward resembles Salinger.

    • All,

      I stand corrected:

      I said:

      So why is this important, well in this Weekly Words he uses the word Obtuse which simply means “annoying”, in response to Richards statement and questions Forrest uses Richard’s word “obtuse” and puts in it red type to add emphasis (also could be hinting back at TTOTC).

      I misread the definition of Obtuse, not so litterate of me there :).

      But in defense of myself (i too deserve the right to be wrong) I stand by my theory that the use of red bold type may have a connection with the use of red type in TTOTC.

      Hat tip to Spoon for pointing out my mistake.

  4. I am new to the chase and after reviewing some of the many years worth of blog posts I can’t help but notice how much fun many people are having coming up with theories and interpretations of the poem. I now wonder what would happen if one of us finds the Treasure. Will we tell everyone our “solve” and share photos of the treasure? Or will we keep it a secret, tell no one, and continue the hunt knowing that it is no longer there. How will the world ever know when the chest is found? Do we even want to know if the chest is found?

    • nd4
      Forrest said and Dal also that Forrest will put it on his Santa Fe site when it’s found. But that’s only if someone tells ff they found it. None of us know, even Dal, hoe but ff says it’s still their and it’s wet.
      Good Luck.

  5. I find it interesting that from what little time I have been in on this, FF went from having what appeared to be little snipits of information; “Remember the chest weighs 42 pounds +. Best to take gloves”. That seems logical enough to me. Big bulky box, quite possibly cold. etc. etc. Flashlight, gloves okay that also seems to be a smart plan.
    Recently it seems that I look forward to reading such weekly words and all I get is an “Obtuse” letter with an honest yet generic response.

  6. I have made a few long drives to “my area” only to be disappointed by the snow pack. At first I told the wife “Maybe we can do it in late April”. Nope. “Perhaps mid to late May”? Probably, but now there is an additional 2 feet of fresh snow on top of the snow that was melting. It used to be at about 4 feet deep at the trailhead, then it was 2 feet and now it is back up to 4 feet. ugh. Waiting stinks, but I try to remind myself that good things come to those who are wait. So I am not making anymore long drives to my area for now. I am going to wait until mid to late June. Surely I will have enough money saved up again and I would be blown away at that time to still see feet of snow blocking my path. If you are wondering, I did do the snowshoes on the trail back on Valentine’s. My wife, 13 month old and I made it about 2miles on the trail before it descended into the valley below. I don’t mind hiking on snowshoes in a horizontal path, but I don’t go down because I know I have to come back up. Needless to say, we didn’t make it to our area then.

    Stay safe everyone and good luck with your chase:)

  7. nd4peace,
    The reason ff gave for the person who may find his treasure never being able to keep it a secret illustrates ff’s uncanny, masterful ability when it comes understanding the human condition.

    I paraphrase ff; that the searcher who finds his TC will not be the type of person to keep it quiet, and I can verify that IMO the rights to the book and perhaps the movie will be worth a lot more than a mere Million or Two.

    Also, that person had best return ff’s turquoise bracelet to get his blessing on that copyright. Although If I found the TC I would challenge him to a game of Pool to see if he still has the stuff, I make some of my lunch money playing pool and golf…

    Tom T

    • Lol. If I were fortunate enough to find the chest maybe he would let me challenge him to a game of Texas hold ’em. I do quite well at this. I have played it for many years now. Unfortunately the bracelet request was from his granddaughter on a radio interview. I do not think she would take kindly to any challenges. Fenn did say that as of now the bracelet is only around $350 I have that in cash so now all we need is for him to convince his granddaughter is OK . Lol!!!

      • If ff makes me play pool against his granddaughter, I may be in trouble, once at the Albuquerque convention center I beat a pro pool shark, ran the table in 9 ball, won a beautiful Dufferin 2 piece cue, then later lost to an 18 year old girl while half of the Albuquerque Fire Dept watched and laughed their As_ off.

        I hope it was not ff’s granddaughter!

        Tom T

    • Tom & Ace,
      Fun that you have poker or pool skills to challenge ff with. I readily admit that there is absolutely nothing I could best him at, except being a female.

      I’ve never met Mr. Fenn, but have huge respect for what we know he’s accomplished in life. How many guys do you know that guided fly fishers at 13, flew in VN, tested fighter jets for a living, made millions as an art dealer, wrote numerous books and at 85 published another book?

      • Oh well, I guess I’m a little out of my league here… Is your number still 42… All righty then!

      • Of course I have a huge respect for Forrest Fenn. I am on this site because I totally respect who he is and the strong belief in his gift and the opportunity that he has given to all of us. Happy Hunting!!
        Not much time for research today though I have a pool to fill summer is approaching.

    • Tom,

      My father was a drummer and he had quite the life traveling around and playing with various bands through out his life from the time he was 13 until he developed arthritis in his late 50’s and because of pain could no longer enjoy playing. My father passed 3 years ago at the age of 64 due to lifetime of smoking. His prized treasure was a set of gold flaked drums that he worked so hard to purchase when he was just 16 years old. This set of drums has sat in my older sisters possession (in a storage container) since his death. I continue to plead with her to pass this set to me so that i can give them to a young professional and create a blog called “Ron’s Drums” and watch these treasures roam the country playing in dusty honky tonks and maybe even a few respectable haunts.

      In tradition with this thought if I am ever so confident to retrieve Forrest’s trove and come into possession of his treasured bracelet i may plea with Forrest to allow the bracelet the same fate as i plan for my father’s drums, to allow the bracelet to roam the country in possession of those who sought it.

      Just a thought.

      LitterateOne.

      • LitterateOne, great story to share with everyone, and I have a memory like that and videos of my father, who had a Baby Martin that still brings tears to my brothers, sister and me.

        Thanks for sharing and good luck on your hunt!

        Tom T

  8. What do we think about solstice the blaze being the sun look down queast to cease

    • imo joanne here again forrest is trying to say is – if you’ve been wise and found the place (blaze) look quickly down your quest to cease

    • Hi Joanne,

      You may want to watch the following informational video.
      (4:40 forward should provide a clearer understanding about the”Solstice & Equinox”)

      Yes, I very much believe that this will play a key role in helping to solve “The Thrill of the Chase.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_NN8pZxTP8

      Good luck to you,

      SL

  9. All,
    With respect to red writing, remember that the Egyptians, when writing a conversation in hieratic, in ink, on papyrus, would write the first speaker’s statements in black, and the second speaker’s statements in red, so that they could be distinguished.
    IMO, this week F was just saying once again, using other words, to consider the what ifs; to develop a process for eliminating the ideas that don’t work, so that eventually a searcher will be left with the “great idea” that leads to TC.
    Geoff
    “Have flashlight and gloves, will travel”

  10. “Catch of the Day”

    Morning all,

    Wanted to discuss a bit about the first two lines in stanza one; a few words in my opinion seem to be key and may help us to understand “where” Forrest went alone.

    “As I have gone alone in there, and with my treasures bold,”

    The three words i want to focus on are: in, with, treasures.

    —————————————–

    In definition: expressing the situation of something that is or appears to be enclosed or surrounded by something else. expressing movement with the result that someone or something becomes enclosed or surrounded by something else.

    Focus on the word “surrounded”, possibly a boundary or border? (I use this word again, see below)

    As I have gone, this to me expresses movement into something.

    So “in” could possibly mean, In the Rocky Mountains, in a river, in a park, in a forest, etc.

    —————————————–

    With definition: accompanied by (another person or thing).

    So we know he went alone “in there” but with what or who? he can’t go alone if he is with another person so Forrest must have gone “in there” with a thing, we assume that the thing is the “treasure” but he says “treasures” in the poem which segways nicely into our next word.

    —————————————–

    Treasure definition:
    noun
    1. wealth or riches stored or accumulated, especially in the form of precious metals, money, jewels, or plate.
    2. wealth, rich materials, or valuable things.
    3. any thing or person greatly valued or highly prized:

    verb (used with object), treasured, treasuring.
    4. to retain carefully or keep in store, as in the mind.
    5. to regard or treat as precious; cherish.
    6. to put away for security or future use, as money.

    Forrest uses the plural form of treasure “treasures” to me I do not believe he is speaking of the actual treasure and its contents, if he had used the word “treasure” then maybe we could assume this. Treasures in the plural, and as I define treasures (see number 3) may possibly refer to the physical things that “surrounded” Forrest “in there” and if we know he went “in there” alone but with his treasures bold, could the treasures be the mountains and river bottoms or even possibly the things we would see if we were standing in his secret, dear, fond spot, hmmm interesting.

    ———————————————

    In conclusion, I am of the opinion that if you subscribe to the idea that each sentence is a clue then the entire first stanza is clue number one, and should get us to a region within the Rocky Mountains that then narrows down the potential WWWH’s. I hope that my break down of lines one and two have stirred some thought and if you disagree with me that is perfectly fine, I do not claim to possess indulgence, yet.

    I look forward to your thoughts. 🙂

    PS: Is it possible that “in” is the key word?

    • I concur with most all of what you have said. One sentence = one clue – YEA for you – I concur

      “in” = keyword (for me, one of four keywords.

      “in there” (for me) set the stage for things to come. Once I
      had determined an area that I thought contained the TC, I had to look “IN” that area, not just AT that area…as you said “IN”
      a particular place… IN a forest, IN a grove of pines, IN a stream.

      “Alone” = a warning – Forrest was “alone” when he went “in there” – The searcher too should be alone, or at a minimum, not observed.

      All, In My Opinion, of course.

      Good luck to all searchers and STAY SAFE

      JD

    • To me, Treasure(s) = the contents of the TC. Gold, silver bracelet, biography, hair strand, necklace, etc. Some New items, some old items…all treasureS

      JD

    • Most of what you say sounds good! I like it. But I think that the first line represents something else. Because I look at it like this, why say “as I have gone alone in there” why did he need the as? So, I have a theory that he has gone “in there” with someone else… I’m not saying that the place in there represents the place of the chest. I’m saying that the place where you should start he has been there with someone else at one point. Seems logical to me… But as we know, don’t let logic distract us from the poem.

      • “AS” = Since. Therefore “Since I went alone in there” (sic) It is a warning – Since I was alone, so should you be alone (or at least not observed) when you go “In there”

        Just my opinion.

        JD

        • Not observed JD,
          I would guess the place he parked & hid the treasure is very low traffic area.
          That was why I had asked you a month or 2 ago about seeing any vehicles around, or something like that.

          Good luck this weekend & just smell the sunshine.

  11. @litterateone,

    I agree with some of what you say,
    As i have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold.
    His treasures bold, His Family.
    He has gone alone in there and at other times he has gone with his Family.
    This would make it a place dear to him.
    All my opinion, i dont have the chest yet.

  12. Oh man, I just filled up my pool. Hate to see this water bill. I had the hose going and it created a mist. The sun is shining brightly today and between the 2 created a BEAutiful rainbow. The higher I sprayed the bigger the rainbow became. Ahhh… I just sat down on the end of my deck and lawn chair and cracked a huge smile. What a wonderful world we live in. IMO we could all use a little Fenn in our lives.

    • ACE, call your water company. They often allow you to turn the meter off while filling the pool because the water doesn’t go back into the sewage system for processing. Save a few bucks 🙂

  13. Hi FF
    Just 1 simple question. How do you feel about the new satelite that when up in august and will be ready for the public within the next 2 weeks. This satelite is capable of goind down to show a screen shot of 25cm? Will this be a game changer?
    Ok, acouple things.they are working on one to go down to a piece of paper or a large cell phone.

  14. I searched the blog and couldn’t find this random thought.

    In the contents of the chest, golden eagles and a dragon coat bracelet combine to a griffin, like in in Spanish heraldry.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Madrid

    Also, Fenn mentions curlers in a scrapbook post (46), and emphasized it. This usually means it’s important. Curl translates in Spanish to lock of hair. I don’t yet know what the next step is for this, perhaps something related to Rizzo.

  15. Another piece of info for other text mining IT people … The term “post” had a significance spike related to TF/IDF specifically to short stories. I couldn’t say why and believed it related to a “fence post” because of Bessie and Me, or a “postman” with his mom. Ahem.

    I visited Will Rogers Shrine of the Sun again today to get more photos and intel on the mural, and spoke quite a bit to the site caretaker, and he has now learned of the Fenn story. “Wiley Post” seems to be as big as Lindbergh in American aviation history. But because I’ve not heard of him, I did not recognize the linkage until after research. The story instead correlates closely to Skippy stranding a plane at Hebgen Lake. The site, Shrine of the Sun, is a location in the poem “So hear me now and listen good, your effort will be worth the cold”. Fenn is rather wily, for sure.

    Another Fenn learning moment for me.

    Enjoy. In my opinion.

    • I don’t mean to be the who corrects you but you keep saying ” so hear me now”.
      Isn’t it ” so hear me all”?

      • @eaglesabound – very sorry, you are correct.

        I believe the transformation is “hear ye, hear ye”, like a town crier ringing a bell, but “hear” also leaves me with the impression I have something to do at the middle or “sentir” –> “center” of something. I still have not resolved “middle”.

        I was out hiking in Strawberry Fields last week looking for some sort of clue to pop up when I heard these bells for the first time. I immediately turned around, headed back to the car, and went right to the Shrine of the Sun, at which time I was stunned by the historical Randall Davey mural (leading to Spanish history, mural crown and the image on the chest, and to Madrid’s coat of arms), but feeling confirmed with the Will Rogers photos and story. His story connected me to the story of Skippy and the plane on Hebgen Lake.

        I also solved my hunt for “post” which was a curiosity for me from word significance hints in short stories. Wiley Post was as famous an aviator as Lindbergh at the time, and wore an eye patch (like a pirate) from an injury he had received.

  16. “Snowy days are a searcher’s worst enemy”. Seems logical. Thank you Forrest for returning to giving us simple guidelines and tips for our trips. I like everything you write, but the last few “Weekly words” were not worth reading. IMO of course. I may as well read my utility bills.

  17. “Catch of the Day”

    Been holding out on this one.

    “A hypothetical example of a “what if” might be, what if I was looking so far ahead that I neglected to notice what was beside me.”f

    This quote from Forrest on Jenny’s sight is in my opinion directly referring to a hypothetical posed here on HOD prior to the original “what if” weekly words.

    Research.

    Be prepared the end is nigh.

  18. Hello there Mr. Fenn,
    Sending good wishes to you and your family…many thanks for this amazing adventure.

  19. It has been awhile since we have had an update on the search for Randy.
    Anyone know if the lake has been searched yet? Are the conditions better for searching this area?
    Friend

  20. Fourteen hour road trip has given me time to re-think the poem. And I have come up with some interesting thoughts. Began, not where warm waters halt, because I’ve never believed that is the beginning. Pretty sure (imo) that I understand the first stanza; “I”, “alone” “in there”, “treasures bold”, etc. Very interesting ! And, has anyone else really looked at homophone and definitions of “thrill” and “chase”. I know what the phrase stands for, but I think it has more to it. Think about, “I give you title to the gold” Lots of thoughts as I have re-examined the poem today. And let me just say that I only wish I were making this 14 hr trip through the Rocky Mountains. The destination will be worth it, but I’m pretty sure we have traveled through the ugliest landscape there is. ETA at our destination- 20 min. The poem helped me survive.

      • Thank you Spallies, but this trip is not to the Rocky Mountains. Though my daughter may take home the Gold in the 4 state gymnastics tournament that we have traveled for. Treasure chests have to wait while we support our daughter in her quest.

  21. Hello Everyone. Tick Season is here in the Rockies. Be sure to check yourselves once you’ve been “In The Woods.” Be prepared and have fun!

    • excellent heads up. Thank you pdenver

      many people prepare for the climate/altitude change, and large predators, but not the little buggers…

      • You’re welcome, Joseph. The family was in the woods today and a tick was found on one of us. Funny sight to see people stripping off clothes to see if anyone else had any on them.

      • Google “tick infestation” and look at the images of dogs, cows, even snakes and you will never not check for ticks again. Ticks on a snake, stuff nightmares are made of.

        • Catnip plant or Nepeta Cataria, is useful to help ward of the little critters… leaves can be boiled like tea. Geranium oil works well too. These are just suggestion to look up and make your own decision to try. I find them a bit more effective than Deet containing products. works well on dogs too.

          One little tidbit here… should you grow the catnip plant in your yard… it will help with mosquitoes control… but the cats in the area will love ya, hence the nick name catnip.

          Snakes on the other hand, I use an old reliable product called 38 shotshell. **Warning** ~ not recommended for use on pets or children… Please read the ‘instructions for dummies’ on the box before using.

          • Hello Seeker. Thank you for this information. I greatly appreciate it. It would seem the solution you suggested may be safer on people than Deet. I’ll need to look into it.

          • Just suggesting is all Pdenver… Some folks have allergies or skin conditions etc. And others may find Deet works well enough for them.

            Any suggestion should be looked into… remember the days when we were told to put butter on a burn?!

  22. SO OFF TOPIC I SHOULD BE NUKED
    Forrest intended to get folks out in nature,

    Well, best intentions. This mystery has led me to some fascinating rabbit holes.

    Here is one.

    The mountains that border Yellowstone NP to the east and north are remnants of a “volcano supergroup”. The Absaroka (Ab-SARK-ah) all the way to the middle Gallatin are an ancient volcano eruption-fest. In some places, the spew was deep enough to bury forests, and petrified trees testify to that.

    Yellowstone Caldera. Something that has melted its way through Idaho.

    Volcano supergroup .vs. superVolcano

  23. “Catch of the Day”

    Movie “Jeremiah Johnson”

    Staring Robert Redford (mentioned in TTOTC)

    Release date: 21 December 1972, date and year should be significant to all.

    There are some interesting coincidences such as how the main character (Redford) acquires a .50 cal rifle that reflect lines in the poem.

    There are others but I’ll allow you to decide.

    In my opinion there maybe a connection, or i could be grasping at confirmations.

    Good luck all and stay safe.

    • R u referring to Hatchett Jack frozen in the snow with the rifle in his hands and note around his neck?

    • All,

      Some of my most recent research has been around pop culture around the time Forrest was in his late 30’s. Movies and books may have had influence on Forrest when creating the poem.

      Couple of examples:

      Jeremiah Johnson: as noted above.

      Cool Hand Luke: Pepper used to deaden the noses of search dogs.

      Catch-22 Book: Forrest hesitancy to share the Philadelphia Caper to the flight surgeon

      .

  24. LiterateOne,

    The connection you’ve shared seems to be quite an astute and perceptive one.

    SL

  25. “Catch of the Day”

    I have hinted about the importance of the number 22 a few times so today I will share a few reasons I believe it to be:

    8-22-1930 Forrest Fenn’s Birthday
    22 disc beads in the row bracelet that Forrest wants returned.
    Forrest rescued in Vietnam on 12-22-1968.
    Forrest mentions he lost 22 and didn’t even know it while in Vietnam.
    two teachers and twenty children in the “Teachers with Ropes” in TTOTC.
    22 years from the time Forrest joined the AF until he moved to NM.
    22 years from the time diagnosed with Cancer until TTOTC released.
    20.2 troy oz of gold in the trove. – from 42 pound TC = 22lbs remain.

    There are a few more which I firmly hold close, I challenge you to find them.

    • Sweet LO, something I can comment on. Could 22 reference the date it was hidden?

      • Kedar’s Mom,

        Sure can, why not? I see significance in 9-22-09 as the potential day that Forrest may have secreted the chest as it was the Autumn Equinox that year.

        • I can see the significance of the day. But I’m not understanding why it matters what day he hid it. ???

        • Leaving soon. :+) A few details left to cross off the list.
          Get spare tire balanced ( who doesn’t balance a tire when put on a rim, mad I missed that, but not going back if they are that incompetent, lol)
          Oil change and
          Shopping
          We expect to go out on Monday. It is a beautiful location.

          • Snowshoes! Maybe some skis too. Plan to stay the night in the forest so bring tent and other supplies too. Good luck on your journey and stay safe out there.

          • This sounds like the same comment from Jake…lol
            I pray for safety on the road, Kedar would be mad if I didn’t make it home, we have some trail rides planned. Thanks.

          • You throwin my name around again KM? Comparing me to others?
            I noticed you downgraded yourself the other day.
            No, I will not donate anything to the charity you suggested.
            Besides, you will have to give the bracelet back to Forrest for me to cough up a couple anyway & from what I can see, you don’t have it & will probably come back with some excuse or another why you still think it’s there & your going to go back, I missed something like all the other searchers including myself.
            Have fun galloping.

          • Jake, not comparing you to anyone, your star shines alone, but med’s comment was similar to your suggestion I need a jackhammer. (we’re not going back there please)
            I have just as good a chance as any, don’t be so annoyed someone may find it, that is after all the purpose of this blog.
            Galloping, ah you reminded me of my most favorite ride ever. I was on Kedar’s mother, Belle, and my husband was on our stallion Chili. It had started pouring rain and we and two people in front of us took off…we splashed through puddles and wove through some trees all the while getting soaked. That was fun.

          • Med_evac,
            Are you calling me mean?

            KM,
            Yes, you do have the same odds as all of us.
            Ah, the Lone Star state. I will take this as a hint to move forward in life. Thank you!
            I would like to say, good luck in finding the treasure, but I don’t think luck will be a factor. Reads like a beautiful adventure galloping through life while soaking in a lasting memory. I know you will have fun.

          • Kedar’s mom
            great catch on the spare tire. not many cars even come with one anymore. what state ( or is it a secret)? So far all 4 states have been mentioned here. Me, Colorado. Over by Cortez. It doesn’t matter just have lots of fun and enjoy yourself, it is beautiful where ever you go.
            Make sure to be very careful and check for ticks asap. At the hotel. The dew and rain makes a lot of things slippery and even a sprained ankle can be bad if you have to walk back out. So be SAFE and AWARE OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS and let us all know when you get back RICHER THAN WHEN YOU LEFT.

    • I wasn’t trying to be mean or anything. I sincerely hope you have a safe journey and that someone brings home indulgence. Without giving my specifics, my solution will require at this time an extreme outdoorsman or woman in your case. Lots of snow in my solution area and the whole of the Rockies still. Just looking out for everyone. We all have an equal opportunity here.

      • Absolutely not Jake. It seemed to me that KM was cranky with me for offering some thoughts. Its hard to gauge anyone’s thoughts or emotions through typing. At least it is hard for me. I like everyone on here from what little interaction I have had on here. I sincerely wish everyone well. I don’t know where everyone comes from but coming to the rocky mountains is not always a walk in the park. Like Mr. Fenn, my family and I have covered hundreds of miles in the mountains. We are primitive campers when we go out. We live near the Rockies and they can turn on you in an instant.

        • Yes Med_evac,
          Nature in the Rockies can turn on you in heartbeat.
          Kind of reminds me of being on the ocean & then a thunderstorm pops up out of nowhere. Seen it happen & is no fun.

      • It’s all good. After my previous discussion about snow, I found your comment perplexing is all. We’re lucky enough not to be dealing with snow, except maybe on the roads.(please no snow) That’s the best part about this, equal opportunity and IMO not impossible. This journey, regardless of outcome, will be one of our great memories. :+)
        PS I don’t camp much, we have reservations.

        Jake,

        Thanks. We all have a journey. KM

  26. “Catch of the Day”

    First off sorry for the long post, I believe it will be worth it.

    I have been of the opinion that Brown is the treasure chest. Let me quantify this theory.

    ———————————————————–

    Seannm on September 23, 2015 at 5:58 pm said:

    Scott,

    I’m not referring to the location of where the Clovis Cache was located but the details as to why FF purchased the cache. At first glance FF thought it to be too pristine as to be real but upon close inspection (in tight focus) he noticed something. Please go back and read the response to the 5-29-14 question posted on the MW’s blog IMO this is a very important hint. one in which I believe FF refers to when he said “What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve”.

    Spoiler : IMO the HOB is the resting place of Indulgence.

    Brown = Bronze

    link to MW mention:

    http://mysteriouswritings.com/questions-with-forrest/questions-with-fenn-archive-1/
    ———————————————————-

    MW: March 4th 2016

    http://mysteriouswritings.com/weekly-words-from-forrest-march-4th-2016/

    *After reading HOD I am prompted to ask, have you considered the “what ifs?”
    ———————————————————-

    MW: March 25th 2016

    http://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-and-early-weekly-words-the-what-ifs/

    Forrest, in the 2015 answers to six questions, you answered in part,“What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.” Is this statement still accurate? ~ Thanks, sumbuddy

    Yes sumbuddy, and that is why I recently suggested that searchers consider the what ifs. f

    ——————————————————–

    I believe that Jenny Kile first came up with the theory that Brown was possibly the treasure, read her “what if’s”

    http://mysteriouswritings.com/forrest-fenns-possible-treasure-location-the-home-of-brown/

    ——————————————————-

    Video:

    time stamp: 10:55

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipvIGaVt7C8

    “If i told you that you would go right to the chest” f

    ——————————————————-

    Now I want to refer back to Weekly words from April 8th 2016.

    http://mysteriouswritings.com/weekly-words-from-forrest-fenn-april-8th-2016/

    *Urgency is not a good plan to fallow (spelling correct)

    Hat tip to “Astree” for pointing out that Fallow is a light brown color.

    Synonyms for Urgency are: compulsion, desperation ect.

    So the line could read:

    Desperation is not a good plan to riches

    —————————————————–

    And that is why i said before:

    Seannm on February 10, 2016 at 1:37 pm said:

    In my opinion what we are missing from the line “Put in below the home of Brown” is that the most important part of that line is “put in” not home of Brown at that stage of the your hunt. Because “put in” is another halt – direction change in my opinion, and too many people keep going down the canyon looking for Brown instead of “put in’s”

    and Forrest once said:

    http://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-and-early-weekly-words-the-what-ifs/

    A hypothetical example of a “what if” might be, what if I was looking so far ahead that I neglected to notice what was beside me.

    —————————————————–

    I want to give a couple “Hat tips” to a few that helped me get to this conclusion (right or wrong).

    Fred over at Ignorance Denied and Jenny at MW, who both have brought up this theory. I have delved deep into validating to its possibility and now firmly hold it as key.

    To all that haven’t figured it out, My old screen name was Seannm.

    LitterateOne aka Seannm.

    • Ill agree with your assessment but not the logic that brought you to it. I think it is remarkably close to (possibly still within) the area designated as the home of brown but the specifics to locate it are directly related to where you “put in”

      My favorite personal solve relies on this sort of thinking. I think plenty of people have blown right past the spot because their are other things that to my knowledge no one has seriously considered (I think this is the real “what if”) needed to understand the full context of this puzzle.

      I am becoming more and more sure that the chest is hidden somewhere not especially remarkable, difficult, or unique unless reached in a specific context or from a specific perspective. Their are far too many places where warm waters halt, too many homes of brown and too many canyons down even combinations of all three without something more to narrow them down. That is the real key here, the real “what if”

      Ill be more helpful and generous with my lines of thinking after I get a chance to fail to have my “unique” (read as possibly insane) ideas produce any treasure. Hopefully as soon as next month.

      As per normal, just my opinion. I think you are mostly right but I don’t think its a new or unique enough of an idea to be the real “what if”.

      “It is quite a three pipe problem, and I beg that you won’t speak to me for fifty minutes.” -Sherlock Holmes

      Some of our problems can be solved by waiting a moment to think out our next move carefully (possibly while smoking opium if we are following in the footsteps of the legendary detective, but I advise against taking that step for most) rather than searching frantically on a hunch or presumption.

    • IMO I interpret what Forrest was saying as if he told where HOB was then one could take a right to go to the chest. I don’t know if I fallow the definition for follow being ‘light brown’ when there is another perfectly good definition for it. I like that you seem to be thinking outside of the box and it could be just as wrong or right as the rest of us. Thanks for sharing.

    • Really impressive, Sean. Let me throw this out there, see it meshes with what you’re saying:

      If you’re “taking it in the canyon down”, then you’d be also following a river downstream (FYI, the mountain locals classify a canyon as being formed by a river, a gulch being formed by a creek, a draw is a sharp cut between two ridges and may or may not have a stream associated; and a gully or ditch being the result of a seasonal creek and often dry).

      Now, imagine traveling down that canyon, next to a river (TFTW). The next line is, “Put in below the Home of Brown”. Continuing the inland waterway theme, the noun “put-in” refers to where canoeists would enter a stream or river. Less known is that it’s also a hunter’s term, meaning the spot where they enter the woods, often defined by a canyon or gulch, draw, etc.

      Therefore, In My Opinion, the Home of Brown denotes something you would float/walk/drive past – a/k/a DOWNSTREAM – before putting in.

      Put In Below the Home of Brown == exit the current path where a stream or significant landmark intersects after you pass your HoB.

      • Naught,

        I like your train of thought but i believe we are on adjoining pages. I don’t want to reveal too much as I’m so close to proving my complete theory.

        My “Catches of the Day” have been my way of giving back and hoping to teach those to fish rather than just giving them away. I do not by any means hold my theories as fact but only hope to stir some logical thinking (sprinkled with a bit of imagination).

        In a previous life it was my duty to analyze information and form the “big picture” to those who made life and death decisions. The chase has provided me the opportunity to again do this but in more “constructive” manner.

        Sean

  27. Nice post. If you want to take literal translation to this HOB statement: Since no body knows what HOB is, EXCEPT that we all know that the word “Brown” exists in the 8th line of the poem and its home is in the 8th line of the poem, then it is safe to say that “below home of brown” in the poem would be either, “empty space”, or line 9 of the poem- “From there it’s no place for the meek”. That is the technical place that would be “put in” below home of Brown. Just a thought of mine..lol

    • Hammertime,

      Nice thought and to add to that, if this theory proves to be true then everything or every place mentioned in the poem could theoretically be below the home of Brown.

      hmm do you think that is air you are breathing?

    • Hammer
      Hammer
      Hammer,
      What kills me about studying the maps & GE is that it makes you want to drive to every one of those places.

      There was a CPL Lester Place ( no place for the meek? ) that went down in a B17 crash, June ’44 there’s pic of the plaque on GE but it’s not very clear

      http://www.panoramio.com/photo/58082054?source=wapi&referrer=kh.google.com

      I scrounged around & found a clearer image of the plaque, trouble is the plaque isn’t @ the wreck and the wreck isn’t really pinpointed on the maps.
      Just another pushpin on my GE and another bucket- list item, hoping I get to see some of it.

      http://lh6.ggpht.com/-zYlfK29nHZg/U8MW5iL0q4I/AAAAAAAAHDs/2iVMPpwkU7M/s1600-h/Bomber-memorial4.jpg

      This wreck has been dubbed the Crown Point B-17 crash site AND it goes without saying there is a Brown Lake and Brown Lake trail in the area.

      The story of the crash is pretty amazing, bit confusing since…
      ……………..
      “Among frequently visited ruins are those of a different B-17 bomber that crashed only 6 miles from the Crown Point crash, killing eight.

      That site – known as the Pingree Park B-17 crash site, from Oct. 18, 1943 – “

  28. Las Vegas, NV Meet Up in 5 days
    Wednesday May 4th
    6:30 pm
    Island Flavor: 8090 S. Durango Dr. #103
    this place has great food and good prices
    Any Fenner welcome
    Meet, talk, have a great time.

    • I would love to be there Decall but I live in Il by Chicago and I have another trip planned. Man if I could only be the ‘FLY” on the wall, and could write to take notes. Notes are good. Well you guys and gals enjoy, have a great time. After all the years I think we have earned a fun time

  29. Hey Everybody,
    I’m taking this opportunity to thank you all for including me in the Chase. I’ve had a great time and learned so much. Sad, I didn’t find that box… now, it’s with a heavy heart that I have to let the hunt go. My health is going to poop faster than one could imagine. Dam!
    Anyway thanks f, and good luck to you all!
    Mark H. Died without $50!!! Winner!

    • Sir, I am sorry to here things are not going good for you. First time I posted on this blog was through you. Not sure I have a solve but I am planning to film when I go on my expedition. If I am correct hope you can witness it. Alas I may not go until late August. I do not live near the the Rockies. Wish you the best!

      ACE

    • Sorry to hear of your health Mark. It has always been a pleasure reading your posts. Sad to see you go. Take care of yourself. #Winner

    • Mark, you never know when you’re given a 2nd chance. Isn’t that the genesis of this Chase? Life is full of twists and turns before it spits you out. Don’t write yourself too short a script. I wish you well and hope for an Act II from you.

      • Melanie, Sorry you have to let the chase go. I would love to hear what area you searched and some of your ideas about the poem if you feel like sharing.

        • Hi Puzzled, I’m puzzled why you would think I’m out of the Chase? I was trying to give some encouragement to Mark. I’m still in it!

          • Melanie- I misunderstood your comment. Glad you are still in the chase.

  30. Greetings all,

    This post may fall on some as a bit morbid, please understand that this is not my intent.

    Brave and in the wood, what does this mean and why is it in the poem? I once asked Decall to question when was Forrest “Brave and in the wood”. So I ask you all when was Forrest “brave and in the wood” what does “in the wood” mean? I believe we must look at the idiom “out of the woods”, if you are out of the woods you are out of a difficult situation. So when was Forrest Fenn in a difficult situation in his life? I can think of two obvious times as I’m sure all of you can as well.

    Vietnam and Cancer.

    “Puff the Magic Clearing” pg 80 TTOTC, “you bring me back and I’ll come down there and personally thank you”. “I trusted it and it could trust me. It was our secret alone. I winked and renewed the vow. And I kept returning.” Forrest then gets shot down (12-21-1968 winter solstice) but makes it out and he keeps his promise to the clearing, which I’m sure I don’t need to highlight the significance of this reverie to you all.

    So now Forrest loses his father Marvin to cancer and I assume has to find him passed in his childhood home in 1986 this has to affect him to the core as it I sure affect any of us. What now happens just 2 years later but he is now diagnosed with Cancer himself, but Forrest doesn’t want to die in a hospital bed with machines attached to himself and family morning over him, Forrest wants to be in his “church” in the sun and the solitude of his special spot to let his bones go back to the dirt.

    “Puff the Magic Clearing” Forrest decides to “take it with him” to let’s his bones go back to the dirt in a place that is special, dear and fond to him. As I have said before I think this place is a region and not a specific exact spot “as I have gone alone in there” but that place that kept returning him when he was in Veitnam was a “magic clearing”. Is it possible that the place he planned to intern himself in his special, dear fond place is a clearing? Go back and look at rumors abound link at Dal’s sight. Forrest said the treasure is not in a tree but is surrounded by trees. Hmm what feature can be found in the wood that is surrounded by trees?

    So Forrest gets Cancer and plans to die, he really thinks he is going to die, he plans everything up to the final bier, much like Marvin did, but he doesn’t go through with it like Marvin did, why? Why does he not go thru with it? Was he in his special, dear fond place, a different “Magic Clearing” Did Forrest make another vow? “You bring me back and I’ll come down there and personally thank you. The deal was struck. I trusted it and it could trust me. It was our secret alone.” So in my opinion the trove is located in a clearing, a clearing much like the one in Veitnam that Forrest made a second vow to, a vow that this second “magic clearing” has kept its end of the bargain and Forrest feels compelled to come back to and personally thank.

    Pg 96 TTOTC “Why did that strange clearing mean so much to me?… Keep reading from there.

    I’m writing this post from my Hotel room hoping to rest well this evening and strike out the trail tomorrow. We all believe that our solution is the perfect and we can be blinded by confirmations and our own ego and I’m no different than any of you. If my wager proves to be wrong then nothing lost, but “what if”.

    Seannm

    • Pg 96 TTOTC “Why did that strange clearing mean so much to me?… Keep reading from there.

      Pg 146 what has the lumberjack done to the forest? Has he deforested it? What’s a another word for deforest? Clear? Has the lumberjack made a clearing? Sorry Mr lumberjack it’s not in the trees but it is surrounded by them, in a forest fen.

      • literateone, I too agree with you, and who else was it , forgot, anyhow take pictures

      • Well… It appears (somewhat to my chagrin) that someone actually saw what I saw. And, yes – it can be seen with GE.

      • Wow, I never equated the field of stumps with the clearing, the stumps being the French soldiers graves. Hmmmmm and fallen trees being other fallen soldiers.

        • Yes like most things I feel this takes on multiple meanings. I agree that the stumps represent the French soldiers. However, we are in another chapter. I feel the stumps also represent his father and mother and all that have been in Forrests memories. The bird in the moon is whatever belief you have after we move on(to represent all religions). The all seeing eye so to speak. I feel the lumberjack is either his dad or the caretaker.
          Now for L1’s side it may also be a clearing big or small that may give us an idea where to search.
          This is a IMO and only IMO.

    • Sounds like a good vision to me. I will give you this. Comparing it to my solve there are similarities. Good luck and be safe.

    • WOW Literate
      That whole story (solve) was compelling. I don;t know what to say but Best of Luck and Please be SAFE
      Timothy

  31. Hey E.C. And anyone else who wants to read this, I remember you asked what may be significant about his library. I think I may have something for you. I am not sure, but I do not think it was in his earlier interviews. There is a bell hanging in the window behind his desk. In expedition unknown episode it is there. Do not know when it was placed there. Look at some of his earlier interviews to see if it is there. Okay now here is my thought process on this. He loves his bells and the one it seems to me he points out the most is Imagination is more important than knowlege. (This is where I may lose you. You know with the whole imagination thing. LOL). Okay so in the book he references several time about looking out and escaping through a window. This is where he may kill 2 birds with one stone. One, these events may or may not have really transpired and/or two it is also to get our attention and tell us to escape reality for a minute and imagine, dream, and believe. Not sure how this can really solve the poem but this is all I could come up with in the library.
    Good luck and Happy hunting!

    • @ACE – The bells are absolutely significant. My working theory about the bells is as follows. At multiple points in the physical search and research, a bell can be discovered. Bel Ombre, William A. Bell, “Easter Bells”, the clock bells at Shrine of the Sun, the elephant bells at the Cheyenne zoo, the school bell in Black Forest, and “Till There Was You”.

      • E.C. Not asking you to give anything away on your solve, so only ask yourself this… The place where you feel the chest may be. Is it a place you feel comfortable that an ill person can rest his bones and go in peace? I do not feel Forrest would ever want to startle any kids in the process.

        • @ACE – It remains to be seen if I’m reading it correctly but I did find a couple of places that were both remote and somewhere that would fit, one specifically next to a log where I found a busted up Sega. Another is in the same location just a bit easy and up the hill, a crevice in some rock formations.

          I’m telling you exactly where that is in Strawberry Fields.

      • E.C. Waters- I also believe the bells are significant but not in the same way you do. I believe that we are to understand the symbolism of the bells.

        Bells are a symbol of the passing of time.

        I believe that what is important in the poem is not bells but TIME. We are all aware that the poem states, “the end is ever drawing nigh”. I believe this is a reference to time. I have heard some of you discuss that we have to be on the trail at a certain time of day to see a blaze, and some of us have discussed the alignment of stars or the moon. But, I do not think it matters what time of day or night (flashlight or not) that we are on the trail.

        I think we need to be looking at TIME in HISTORY. How do we do that? It is possible to do it with the poem.

        TIME is suggested not just in the phrase, “end is ever drawing nigh”. There are other words in the poem that strongly suggest passage of time.

        So while I think the bells are important, I think it is because they represent TIME.

        • @Puzzled – I’ll buy into that but I’m not completely sold yet that time is involved. I did think at some point it was because I believed I could connect various terms.

          And as I’m just now studying surveying, I’m seeing multiple possibilities for “nigh”. Yes, my path curls left into an Alpha symbol, but also I just learned that a survey term “Neigh” is used, like “neighbor”, of which “neighbor” is derived from “nigh”.

  32. Keen observation, Ace!

    If you scroll up this thread you might recall the “Library” link I gave earlier. As you look to the left of where Forrest is standing, there are some rather interesting things you might see.

    Good luck to you ~

    SL

        • It’s either good or bad, for searchers, depending on , well, a number of things I guess.

          • It could be a positive hint towards something important because it’s presented by this means, or negative towards it, because of where it landed.

          • You have to use a date that allowed ff to have read th May and pitched it in the trash. Earthquake.

        • @Musstag I picked up on that ‘file 13’ or round file early on i the readings of TTOTC, but my local library didn’t have access to archive for periodicals, I was going to research a few weeks on either side of the date that JD Salinger passed, then I thought that has nothing to do with anything that occurred in the 80’s and the spot was known that far back so….I blew it off but it’s still on my to do list….one man’s trash is another man’s treasure…maybe an article on Native Lands Settlements or a Land Swap, or a huge fire someplace….Thanks!

          • I thought of that, too, and then it occurred to me to look at the magazine’s website for archives – they’re there; the article on Salinger’s death (and life) in March 2010. But found nothing of any value, really…

  33. All,

    Well everyone can breathe a sigh of relief as indulgence is safe in its “secret” spot i have come up empty handed. I will give just a brief synopsis of my search but won’t go into the details as I know most of you will understand how I came to my conclusions.

    The region I searched was in Yellowstone National Park. I live in NM so it was a good 12 hour drive from home to WYS.

    WWWH was the confluence of the Gibbons, Firehole and the Madison also known as Madison Junction.

    Canyon down was the Firehole canyon (down, south in direction).

    NFBTFTW, was at a minimum 10 miles down (upstream but south) either the firehole or the Grand loop RD.

    Put in below the home of Brown was a turn out in the near vicinity of Muleshoe bend (Midway geyser basin, me in the middle). Everone should know my theory on Brown at this point.

    No place for the meek, Meek to me was obedience, most peole assume rabbit Creek area is off limits but it is not but they are obedient and pass this area up. (btw the area was closed off due to potential bear activity, well fortune favors the bold and i went like a brave maverick anyway, Heart rate was way up)

    The end is ever drawing nigh; the end of the “rabbit creek if you follow all the way up to the clearing is ever “pulling to the left or nigh and close”

    There be no paddle up your creek, Up stream and elevation in Rabbit creek, the elevation change from my put in to the end is less than 100 ft over a mile so a very easy walk.

    Just heavy loads and water high, The heavy loads could be the chest or the mineral content in rabbit creek, which strickly a hotspring run off (temperature was about 100 degrees). Water high was the steam emitted from all the hot springs that lined the area, especially the rabbit creek spring which is the main source of the runoff.

    the blaze, to me was the trail of clues that leads you to the end.

    Look quickly down your quest to cease, scan around the area for the chest

    But tarry scant with marvel gaze, to me this was in direct reference to when Forrest was so rushed in the clearing in Vietnam and was a confirmation that the clearing at the end of rabbit creek was the area that Forrest secreted the trove. It made since that the search area was a marsh, biddy, hag, fen ect. (you’ll get it) it was a good physical barrier that ensured that someone wouldnt happen upon or stumple over the chest unless they where specifically there looking for the chest, IMO.

    Brave and in the wood, everone saw my post Frida evening on my interpretation of this important line.

    Alas I spent more than 4 hours in my search area trudging through the marsh, scanning for anything out of place, but nothing. I scanned the edges partically trees in the NE corner and along the enire edge of the clearing, but nothing.

    So where did i go wrong? That is where I am at, I’m humble enough to know that I was wrong and I must go to the beginning and re assess my theories. I believe that key things i mentioned still may hold to be true, but it is possible that the region is wrong. I need some time to assess and lick my wounds so to say. I accept any and all critiques and feedback, and I will answer any question that you may have.

    To those who have smugly hinted that the treasure has already been found I say to you that it is a possibility however, I will continue to search until some real proof of this has come forward other than that it is better to remain silent in your opinions unless you have “real” proof.

    I thank all of you for the support and well wishes you have provided it was and still is much appreciated. I look forward to hearing from you all.

    Sean

    • L1,
      Just glad you didn’t become a meal. You got stones.
      I like the starting area, but after spending a few days in YNP, realized something was out of place. Me.
      I am looking out of the park next time.
      Maybe you will to.
      Pictures?

    • Thanks for sharing your adventure. If things work out, I will be going on a search in a week or so but not in that area.

    • people who say the treasure has been found just want others to stop so they have less competition. It is my opinion that it is still out there. We all know there is more in the chest than Fenn says because he said in the book the items are too numerous to name them all. He also said he left something in there just for the finder. I have pondered that and all I can say is some people may keep it secret but we are compulsive as humans and we won’t be able to not talk about it. My wife told me she believes Fenn may have left something g so special you just HAVE to tell him. Or he has a really cool web cam and watches it. Lmao.

    • I have wondered about if down meant to go south. I read that some surveyors use down to reference south. Sounds like you put in south of gravy pots. I like marsh, but there are others.

    • Sean, you should write your adventure up and send it to Dal, along with any pictures you may have taken. It would be a great addition to our “Others Adventures” page.

      As far as your solution goes, in my opinion some of your clues are not specific enough. I think all of the clues will be like your WWWH, Madison Junction is a specific place. All of the clues will be a specific place or thing that when followed precisely will lead to the treasure.

      However, you may have just joined the 200 foot club. Just my opinion.

    • Sean,
      “So where did i go wrong? That is where I am at, I’m humble enough to know that I was wrong and I must go to the beginning and re assess my theories.
      The blaze, to me was the trail of clues that leads you to the end.”

      First I don’t know your entire theory… The one suggestion I do have is the Blaze being a trail, why? because I would consider it a marker… maybe on or of the trial. I also would suggest it can be both, even in two location, yet still connect.

      Stanza four can be read as; found the trail look down or down the trail to the point of a marker… a simple explanation anyways. In this case maybe tarry scant means no rush, just a short distance to find the marker at the other end of the trail…

      Again, I haven’t kept up with your process of your theory… just a thought of what I read here.

    • Both sorry and happy it’s still there. Many of our interpretations are the same. Have very different ideas on too far to walk and no place for the meek I think is deliberately misleading. I hope you at least had some fun. I suspect you are now among those who have come close to the chest but walked right past it. Heading to some of the same locations (hopefully by the end of the month) as well as a few others nearby. At least I can mark some of my less likely solves off. Thanks for sharing.

      • “too far to walk and no place for the meek I think is deliberately misleading”
        Could be Dys, but I think we are misleading ourselves.

        • That is precisely what I mean. Their is no distance that is “too far to walk” their are places that cannot be walked to but that has nothing to do with the distance. I think that phrase, no place for the meek and been wise require highly abstracted thinking given their impossibility, subjectivity or strange potentially contradictory tenses.

    • Sean — thank you for sharing your solution and experience. Even though you didn’t end up trudging back to your car with 42 lbs. of Indulgence, you went “all-in” (Texas Holdem reference) with confidence in your solution, and got to enjoy a bit of adventure. Given your distance from YNP, you clearly can’t be faulted for a lack of commitment!

      As for your solution, it is certainly no worse than dozens of others we’ve read about here. It starts out with a specific and strong hypothesis, but (like so many others) as it proceeds it becomes more tenuous, to the point that I wouldn’t be able to proceed with confidence, but clearly you could. It’s almost an unavoidable dichotomy: the obvious need to maintain secrecy precludes the sort of cross-checking by another set of eyes to point out any weaknesses. I think we all have little trouble spotting flaws in other people’s solutions, but have blind spots in critiquing our own.

      On a side note, it would be interesting to have statistics on the fraction of searchers who believe the chest is in Yellowstone. Anecdotal evidence from Dal’s site suggests it is disproportionately high given YNP’s size relative to the total search area. To my mind, YNP is just too obvious. I’m bothered by a couple things that Forrest has said: “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Sante Fe” and “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta.” This suggests to me that WWWH cannot be where a warm or hot spring joins a colder body of water: it isn’t sufficiently unique. All four states left in play have many such places, and most of them involve proximal canyons. How to choose among them, and how to be confident that you’ve “nailed down” the right one? I would argue that if the first two clues uniquely define a starting point, then WWWH cannot be a thermal spring/cold water junction.

      • Zap, you certainly could be right. But after taking everything Fenn has said in context and as a whole I’ve decided, at least for now, the first two clues are fairly obvious and can be found from home and don’t define a unique spot. Which is why so many searchers have solved the first two clues and been close to the treasure.

        At least I haven’t found a spot where I think lots of searchers have been and is also unique in the Rocky Mountains. Just my opinion.

      • Oh Zaphod, how blind some people can be. I suspect that Sean (liberate one) isn’t to far off. He has a good solve going. He will now twerk it around and ready another trip. Your idea of wwwh not being any part of a hot spring is clueless IMO, FF has not to today given ant type of a distance that the warm water can travel. For you to take that out of the equation is well it’s like ignoring the poem at your own risk.
        Sean, don’t give up on your solve. We are from Il and have made a # of trips to our solve and even though we haven’t retrieved the TC we have been able to adjust and correct some of the solve. No trip is wasted, When you get there you get to finally enjoy all of Gods country and to me that is HUGE.IMO

        • Never mind, I mis read several post Ok I’m finished posting for a while.

        • Tim, you misunderstand me. *IF* your first clue is WWWH and you believe the answer is where a hot or warm spring joins a colder body of water, and your second clue is TIITCD, then you don’t even remotely have a unique starting point and you cannot proceed with confidence. The alternative that I offered (that WWWH might not involve a thermal spring) was a way to give those first two candidate clues a chance at defining a unique starting point. Conversely, if WWWH *is* where a thermal spring meets a colder body of water, then WWWH is either not the first clue, or TIITCD is not the second clue.

      • “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta.” Agreed to: “WWWH cannot be where a warm or hot spring joins a colder body of water: it isn’t sufficiently unique.” You are spot on! JMO

      • @zaphod – why canasta? Why not bridge? Or go fish? Or kloepper? Or rock-em sock-em robots? Could it be because a canasta is the laying of at least seven cards? Once again prefaced his delivery with “nail”… or “clou”.

    • Hi L1. Thanks for sharing a great adventure with us. I’m sorry it didn’t work out for you. I know JUST how you feel. But, I am happy the Chase continues – and for you, as well!

      BTW, I like the irony of your screen name.

    • Hello L1,
      Thank you for posting most of your solve and giving us an idea on your thoughts to the poem. I am busy working right now but I will look this over tomorrow or the next day and if I have see anything of interest and can give you any ideas in comparison to my solve I will try to let you know. I will do what I can without of course giving anything away of my solution.
      Thanks again,
      ACE

    • Wow L1 way to bring courage along with you. I do not think I could go in where strong bear activity may be present. If I did make it out alive my wife would kill me for attempting a feat. I am sure you are upset right now but in a day or two you will be able to kick the mud off you boots and reflect at how alive you felt lifting each rock and looking under each tree root.
      Compared to my possible solve there are not many similarities I can compare. This is really all I have. Not sure about the chest itself but I too will get my boots wet at sometime before I can get to the chest. I do like your play on the marsh, biddy, hag, etc.

  34. Congratulations on a completed solve.

    Your solve sounded complete, and well thought out.

    The only weak link I saw was your interpretation of the Blaze….
    but who am I to throw stones…I (as yet) do not hold the TC.

    Again, My compliments to you.

    Hope that the adventure was rewarding in other ways.

    Hope you learned a thing or two, and that you will return…
    even if to another spot.

    Take care, and STAY SAFE.

    JD

    • JD – When is your next search? I remember you saying that ice needed to melt. I wonder how many hits the weather sites get about this time of year when the Fenn searchers start checking spots they want to search.

      • Current schedule is leave Frifay the thirteenth – Maybe it will bring me GOOD luck instead of bad. Who knows?

        Seems like a lot of searchers are out – maybe it will be found by the Thirteenth.. We shall see.

        Good luck to all searchers – and STAY SAFE

        JD

  35. JD,

    Thanks, It was great to meet you and have lunch, next one is on me!

    Sean

  36. Goofy,

    I will try and put something together, i have posted some pics on another sight (wont mention the name) if those are interested in seeing. I shoud have something together maybe by wednesday.

    Sean

  37. Seeker,

    I appreciate the comments. I will prepare a write up to send Dal, it most likely will not contain all my thoughts as some are still pretty key and i hold close but i believe i have shared most of my thoughts piece meal here. As of now I’m taking a few steps back and breathing, this has been a very humbling trip, but i wouldnt change a think i belive i will bounch back and be strongeer next time out.

    Seannm

  38. The idea that the chest is in or near YNP continues to amaze me. I would be supremely disappointed in FF if after having told us that imagination is more important than knowledge, he chose to hide the chest in what is arguably the most unimaginative area in the Rockys. Terrific scenery yes; likely place for the treasure chest … no, no, no … a thousand times no.

    Sean … thank you for spelling out your search area. At least you saw your solution through to its conclusion.

    Just a quick response to “Timothy”, who responded to someone who critiqued Sean. Timothy said: “Your idea of wwwh not being any part of a hot spring is clueless IMO”.

    Really!?

    There are all kinds of different interpretations of wwwh. Those who claim that it must refer to a “hot spring” are as unimaginative as those who claim the chest must be, has to be in or near Yellowstone.

    Again, the absence of the use of imagination just floors me. And the junction of various creeks, rivers, canyons is getting stale as well.

    The herd instinct is hard to overcome. Searchers reinforcing other searchers’ ideas and theories are quite popular. But popularity of theory is no substitute for the correct theory. In other words, beware of a message board’s echo chamber.

    Ken

    • @Ken – while I completely agree with you about seekers needing to Imagine, I sense you’re Barc-ing up the wrong tree with the present majority, all of whom seemingly have a staunch opinion about their solution, or otherwise staunch opinions against those of us who are able to offer imaginative thinking.

      • Yeah, I think you’re right. Their “staunch opinion”, as you call it, is what I would call close mindedness. I sometimes wonder how many posters here actually know much about the Rocky Mountains. There are so many places that most people have never even heard about. Of course, everyone knows about YNP. And given that YNP is the cornerstone of FF’s book …

        But it does get tiresome. *sigh*

        Ken 🙂

      • Dal would have to confirm but I think he went up and down those rivers walking

        • William-
          Dal has walked specific lengths of those rivers and others in the neighborhood as he evaluated Forrest’s history and followed the clues. He is still following the clues but is now exploring outside the park. He believes the first and second clues are places in the park. The third clue moved him outside the park. Last fall he thinks he identified the 4th. This spring he will be picking up from that point and exploring for the 5th.

          Once again he is faced with several options and it will take a while to explore all of them as he searches for the 5th clue.

          • If Dal has got this far does he agree with Forrest statement about the clues getting easier as you go?

      • How can any area be ‘over-searched’? Unless you have the 10″x10″ spot… seem thousands could walk right by the chest.

        • @Seeker – I’m of the very strong opinion that the poem and his book will take us to a 10″x10″ spot. I’m not a surveyor, and learning this language is a looking to be a bit time consuming for me. So I now believe I’m a weekend spiral hike and a metal detection away from revealing it, probably 250 degrees, 200 or 500 or 030 away from where I’ve centered.

      • “Nobody is going to happen on that treasure chest. You’re gonna have to figure out the clues in the poem and go to it.” (Moby Dickens video, Nov.2, 2013)

        I am a firm believer that all 9 clues must be solved and understood before you even get up, but they will take you precisely to the spot.

      • I will even go farther. He/She who finally understands how to solve this clues will be somewhat dumb founded at first, but the feeling will be so chilling and powerful that he/she will immediately do whatever necessary, no matter the sacrifices, to get to that spot the very NEXT DAY. That is the 100% confidence that you will find no question about it.

        There will be no coming to Dals home to tease about having a ‘solve’ that you will be getting to later in the month cause you are too busy. None of that nonsense. It will be an absolute resolve.

        • Hello Oz10 and to all others that read this,
          First I hate to use 100%. This allows no room for error. I feel you are right about this statement 99.98%. There may be someone out there that does have a solve and can move with confidence, but for some reason waits. Granted I feel this would take one unique individual to not just go out and get it. Like Forrest someone else who likes to bounce of curbs. I definetley have never heard of anyone hiding potential millions and giving the world a chance to find it, but it has happened. Those odds alone are astronomical and to add someone else lingering around and not just going and getting the chest sounds dumb as 7734. The possibility is mind blowing and(together) I may be even underestimating it a bit 99.999997% that would never happen.

          • I’m not sure that is true necessarily. One of my favorite quotes:

            “The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”

            ― Charles Bukowski

            I feel I have a good solid solve and even a unique answers to several of the clues. But I am skeptical of all things including myself. I urgently would like to get on with my treasure hunt but it is admittedly a reckless and irresponsible thing to do for someone with as little means as myself.

            At the risk of sounding arrogant (and please try to take me at my word when I say it is not my intention) I doubt anyone has interpreted some of the key points I have and I do not think their is any risk of someone getting there before me (hopefully within the month). Alternatively I also doubt that I could possibly be smarter, more creative (not to mention better looking and more humble) than 35000 other treasure hunters and 1 crazy old millionaire.

            Some of us want to make a literal run for the money but it is not practical. Ironically enough but not in exact contradiction to what forrest has said. I feel the sorts of people who would come to a great solve possibly the winning solve are analyzers and in that they are likely to doubt even their own brilliance.

            Its called the dunning-kruger effect.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

        • I tried to envisioned what will happen when someone (maybe someone here) will finally solve the poem. I never said it will be a smart person or a dumb one, it will be a persistent one. But been able to crack a code that was meant for a thousand years by itself is a huge achievement. Is the chase and not the quarry.

          I still say it will be pretty evident and no need for trial and error boots on the ground. F has hinted to it, but he also knows that the lure is big and everyone is welcome to take a nice trip to the woods. Anyways, is better than to stay home and play canasta. Show me the money!!!

    • If all we have is ‘imagination’ to go by… we might as well rule out MT, WY, and NM altogether. If you want some real imagination… are the references to clues all in the RM’s?

      • @Seeker – the references themselves, I would say no, not all. The locations to which they allude, I would say definitely.

        My primary example of Ramona Falls and Ranomafana, Haute Matsiatra still holds. I’m working on something at the moment that overlays a spot from a different state on top of a spot in Colorado. If it fits, and I think it might because it would align with the overall Fenn-genius I’ve seen so far, I’ll be on the next plane.

        I’m also one to three steps away from solving his lost spot in Scrapbook 124.

        • OK EC, I see where ya went with that… my bad. But yes, could the clues refer to another place and as you say ‘overlay’ a point in/on the RMs.

      • Are they all in the RM’s? Those locations that ff said his clues refer to, he has never said they are all in the Rockies. I think he may even hinted to that when he said ‘look at the big picture’. whats ur opinion?

        • I’m really leaving my options open OZ… but i can see how the clues can work inside and out of the range… My explanation is, at least one answer to one clue maybe on a map, but the answer is not found on map, or the book, and not truly by the poem. It may just be… it is figured out by what you said… the big picture.

      • Seeker … the reality is that the poem is so vague that its words and phrases could apply to many places throughout the world, not to just the RMs. Which is why searchers, in my opinion, need to parse their time and expenses wisely.

        To be honest, while I absolutely agree that the chest is out there, I’m not convinced that FF wants it found in the next hundred years.

        Point being … by all means spend time trying to understand the poem (it’s a fun puzzle), and even take a trip or two (great scenery), but absolutely do not go with a sense of … confidence … that you’re going to find it.

        Ken

    • WISE advice Ken. Now if you can just put that wisdom together with the BLAZE, we can end this Chase.

      • hehehehe
        And in my above comment I didn’t mean the chest could be anywhere in the world. It has to be in the Rocky Mountains; ff said so.

        My solution fits “pretty well”. In due course of time I’ll trek from Texas to the site I have chosen. My expectations will be very low. I’m not in any hurry, as the chest isn’t likely to be found anytime soon.

        In the meantime, I sure ain’t gonna give the impression that I am absolutely sure I know where the chest is at. You won’t catch me hyping the word “confidence”.

        Ken

  39. just came across this on the ol’ internet…. Maybe this could be WWWH?

    “where there is a bend in the river. At this location, due to the water’s change in direction, there is a natural pool of WARM WATER where fish congregate. This is where the Lenape set up their “summer station” to trap fish, which was a staple in their diet.”

    • clues-
      Aren’t the Lenape Indians from Delaware/New Jersey? Are you suggesting that WWWH is on the east coast?

      • Hey Dal,

        No I meant to delete that last part. I just meant WWWH could be where a river bends and there is a pocket of warm water. I have not heard of bends in rivers creating warm waters. Should of clarified that. Sounds interesting/original interpretation to WWWH.

        • Maybe WWWH is his favorite fishing hole, a nice bend in the river thats warm. Where all the fish hide out.

          And maybe the poem leads to the secret location where Forrest and his dad or brother hid fishing supplies during the winter.

  40. Question;
    While we are told there are 9 clues… [ set aside the 9 lines to 9 sentences debate ]… How many searcher are looking for nine answers?

    A short explanation would be great as well…

    • @Seeker – I’m seeing nine physical locations (clous) referenced.

      • I have read your theory EC. So I may be redundant here, Did you ‘look’ for 9 answers, one for each clue?

        • @Seeker – no, I wasn’t looking for nine locations. I started with the first couple of interpretations from the poem, 1) So. Cheyenne Canon, Seven Falls, 2) Ramona Falls… and then I kept going trying to translate the poem while I was physically on the site. I wasn’t looking at counting, nor fitting 9, nor anything else. The 5th location resolved perfectly as Helen Hunt Jackson’s marker, and the blaze.

          Only on the 9th have I struggled to precisely locate the final spot. 1 through 8 were clear and resolved as I walked the path and directions suggested from the poem.

          Then to my amazement, after using Google Earth to physically chart my path, only then did the alpha and omega symbol show. That’s when I fully understood “title to the gold”, but am still attempting to fine tune the specific 10″x10″ spot.

          … en mi parecer.

    • Why not get as much out of the poem as possible and not limit oneself to nine. Nine may have another meaning.

      • Count, the book states the poem contains 9 clue… while I agree we need to get everything we can from the poem, the question was how many answers do you look for?

        Or if I need to be more precise, do you see less than 9 answers or more than? or just 9, one for each clue reference?

        • I believe that one question can have more than one answer and lots of descriptions can equal one place. Look at sentence two, looks like Fenn is describing qualities of “it”. Some may say one clue others say meny.

          • I agree with you Count although I believe it is the entire first stanza; lines 1-4 that describe “it”. I know I am not alone in this belief. I think that there are a few people who have figured out what “it” is.

          • LOL count, I feel like dentist tonight… Not One question… one clue!

            Are you suggesting one clue can have more than one answer? I’m ok with that. But when you read the poem, and theorize what the nine ‘clues’ are… do you look for an answer to each clue?

          • Puzzled,
            You use 4 line in the first stanza, and come up with one answer ~ correct?

          • Seeker, I assume that you are asking about my response above that I believe that lines 1-4 describe “it”. I think there is at least one answer as to who/what “it” is. There may be a double meaning to “it”. I’m still trying to decide on that for sure. I believe I currently have one answer to that question and possibly a second answer, both strongly “hinted” at in Stanza One. I also believe that there are a number of other important things strongly hinted at in Stanza One.

          • Seeker,
            Why does one clue have to be so one dimensional? I’m starting to believe a clue can be more than just a location. Possibly a location and acts they may need to be performed to move on. Something so simple as stop at a look out on a beautiful drive with binoculars and look into the landscape for the next clue. So, yes one clue can have more than one answer, especially in the case of how Fenn hid the chest or how to uncover the chest within the poem.

          • Exactly count,
            Out of almost the theories ever presented, the one commonality is 9 answers to nine clues.
            I was hoping others would say… the nine clues gave me 3 answers or 12 answers… with just a small explanation.

          • Some clues may be one dimensional but some sentences seem to have a lot packed into one sentance. Leading one to speculate that one sentance may all pertain to one clue. With the biggest sentences being in stanzas 1, 3, and 4.

    • They should be answers or at least each is an understandable concept, how other way you can count them?

      • If each clue contains it’s own answer, then there should be 9 answers…right?

        I have given this riddle before as an example [ the poem from my perspective is not a riddle]
        Whats Black and white and red all over? There are 3 maybe four clues here. The major clue is color or better the lack of color. Black and White are not colors, which indicates red a color, should not be. clue 1 Black, clue2 white, clue 3 red, clue 4 read… one answer A Newspaper.. is black and white and read all over.

        4 clues for one answer.

        Another is; There is a game played in most schools…clue 1.
        If you become a pro you can make a good income from it… clue 2
        The game starts with a T…clue 3
        I’ll give you a hint, the game has 4 letters

        Do you have 3 clue? or 4?

        • I see your point and it would make sense that is not necessarily one clue for one answer. The question is should we count the clues as we go? Is it important, if what we need is the solve (or answers)?

          • From what I have heard from others 9 is important to their theory…

            My point is, I don’t see nine answers to 9 individual clues. { this brings us back to the 9 sentences are the nine clue, but…}

            In one reading I see 5 answers. Fenn was asked about the clue count and Paraphrasing … the count stayed about the same with each writing of the poem.

            He has never been asked how many answers are there. I’d doubt he would answer such a question… so that is why I asked here, to see what other searchers lean towards. 9 answer, more than 9 answers, less than 9 answers to the clues.

          • I don’t think it is important to count the clues/hints until we think we understand the entire poem. At that point, I guess it would be helpful to make sure we didn’t miss something by counting clues. But, I think that all that really matters is that we are certain that we understand all of the words and phrases in the poem and can put them together in a way that can be followed on a map. I do think that nine is important for more reasons than just counting clues.

          • I am sorry, but I am confused. What is all of the discussion about “ANSWERS”?

            What answers? To me there are nine sentences that = the nine clues. Each clue was defined within one sentence.

            There may have been more than one element within a clue,,,like in stanza #2.

            One clue, three elements. Did the three lines that made up one sentence answer more than one question – certainly. Is it important that it ANSWERED more than one question?

            I think not.

            Please enlighten me someone.

            Why all this interest in ANSWERS, to unposed questions.

            Good luck to all

            STAY SAFE

            JD

          • JD,
            You said, “What answers? To me there are nine sentences that = the nine clues. Each clue was defined within one sentence.”

            I don’t see the problem with understanding that a clue is a clue… an answer is what the clue[s] refers to.

            If you say WWWH is a clue… ok… but it still needs an answer, what it is, where it is, how does it work with other /clues and answers.

            We’re told to decipher the clue… well, that is an answer to the clue.

            You also said, “Why all this interest in ANSWERS, to unposed questions.”

            Do you need a question marker after a clue to have it refer to an answer? I guess I’m just as confused as you are.

    • Seeker, I counted them on my original ‘road map’ theory.

      Stanza 1- 1 clue- 1 answer
      Stanza 2- 2 clues- 1 answer
      Stanza 3- 2 clues- 2 answers
      Stanza 4- 0 clues- instructions
      Stanza 5- 2 clues- 1 answer
      Stanza 6- 2 clues- 2 answers

      Total 9 clues and 7 answers.

      • Thanks OZ,

        That was why I asked the question. You, Ken, Puzzled, and a couple others [ sorry if I didn’t mention you ] seem to have the same perspective that multiple clues can hold one answer.

        I like that you see stanza 4 as only instructions, that is a bit of a twist from most theories posted, and is another reason I asked the question… You seem to use all the poem, where most “solves” posted, tend to skip a lot of the poem.

        Right, wrong or indifferent… thanks for the input folks.

  41. this is what I think right or wrong its just my opinion – I think that the poem is just a road map and its up to us to find what is what because the poem does not say – what is wwwh- what is hob – what is put in below the home of brown – what is the end is ever drawing nigh – just heavy loads and waters high-what is in the wood – what is the blaze- imo the poem does not tell us what is what – so to me we have to look else where for the answers imo

    • This is too funny, I thought this was a relatively easy question. It doesn’t matter where you look for the answers, it doesn’t matter what you think the clues are… Do you see each clue to hold one answer?

  42. I see it this way – if you ask 10 people what is hob – you will get 10 different answers

    • HoB is a clue… or at the very least part of. I’m not looking for ‘the’ answer to it, I’m asking how many clues do you need an answers too? I think some here are getting confused to what a clue is and what an answer is.
      IF; begin it where warm waters halt… a single clue, does it have an answer for it?
      or
      Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, no far but too far to walk… three clues with one answer?
      It’s a curiosity question.

      • We should look at clues as Fenn has stated, which would be something that helps you get closer to the chest. So does WWWH get you closer without the rest of sentence two? It would seem so but if “it” is what the clue is then the rest of the sentence would be required to precisely get the clue correct.

        • Begin “it” where …

          Why can’t “it” simply be the adventure or quest, so that line would read >>> Begin your quest/adventure where ….

          Why does “it” have to be so mysterious?

          • Totally agree, Ken: why do so many insist on over-thinking “it”? Not every word in the poem has a hidden meaning. Parsing pronouns is the opposite of looking at the Big Picture.

      • Alright Seek, I wouldn’t get twisted up in stanza five…
        So why is it that I must go
        And leave my trove for all to seek?
        The answers I already know,
        I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

        I sorta think that goes back to those moral, spiritual questions Fenn fussed over(at the end of his War Chapter)

      • seeker … In my solution … (begin it where warm waters halt and take in the canyon down, not far but too far to walk”) = one (1) clue and that clue has one (1), and only 1, answer.

        Put in below the HOB = 1 clue and 1 answer.

        • That is a VERY interesting parsing for one clue, and you could very well be right! It’s the most sensible answer yet to my question of how the first two clues are unique enough to get you close. I’ve struggled with how:

          Clue 1: Begin it where warm waters halt
          Clue 2: (and) take it in the canyon down

          could constrain anyone to fewer than 100 places in four states. But if these two are actually only part of what Forrest is calling a single clue (which may or may not even be Clue #1), then the quandary goes away!

        • Ken.. I just added a post in “Poem Structure” that tries to explore this reasoning and probable answers. I think there should be a whole new thread on it.

          Anyway, check it out — I don’t think Dal will let me re-post on this thread.

          -C

      • seeker – to begin with I was not commenting to your question – but I think your question should of been is how many clues is there per stanza – begin it where warm waters halt (1) and take it in the canyon down (2) not far but to far to walk (3) but in below the home of brown(4) imo- I think that is what you are asking four clues – four answers if not if that is not what you are asking – sorry my bad

        • Hey Frank,

          What I was asking is in anyone theory, how many clues do they see to make an answer?
          Ken gave a simple reply how he sees the clues work for an answer [ I agree with his thoughts on that]. Puzzled went slightly different and uses 9 as helpful in the solve rather than count or looking for a number count to match clues. [ I agree with puzzled about understanding the poem ] Others use what they believe to be a 9 clue 9 answers and/or nine places. [ while I see this method usefulness… I see forcing a read to find answers and not seeing clue[s] to answers ]

          The reason I asked this question is, are we attempting to force an answer by selecting a method of finding a clue? Is this a backwards method?

          This is where the comment, the poem is straightforwards, may come into effect. Would it be so unreasonable to understand the poem prior to even looking for a clue?

          Maybe the real question that needs answering is, what is the poem actually about? NOT the clue, the poem.

          • ok seeker -I think I get it – and notice I said I think I get it – the poen is to get you to point A to point B and yes it does take all 9 clues to get you there or how many clues there is and all the clues are one unit – I think

          • Frank,

            I’m not bustin anyone’s idea of how they read or see a clue… I have wondered if by simply looking for what we think is a clue the wrong method.
            It doesn’t matter if 9 line or 9 sentences is the method… or if there are 10 clues in a stanza. I have been wondering if… all we do is look for clues to be answered, are we missing something? Like the poem itself.

            Why did fenn choose a poem? He could have slapped clues in the book and had us go from that. Are we missing the understanding of the poem itself? I don’t know… but I see Puzzled version of understanding the poem first to discover what a clue is, to find an answer to a clue [ if I read Puzzled reply correctly ] a much better understanding, than simply looking for a clue.

            Yet, I do understand that after 5 plus years, searchers are so involved with seeing the poem from one perspective… it’s hard to change a thought process in midstream.

          • seeker – this is what happened to me when I started the chase – first I looked for what I thought was easer to figure out and that was the blaze from there I back tracked to see if I could find wwwh not sure if I was right – forrest came out with a story with pictures of what I thought was wwwh and home of brown – so I checked my wwwh and I was right from there from the pic I found home of brown so I had those 2 right imo then he came out with a pic. of my blaze and from there I have been getting my answers from forrest from clues he has been throughing at us and we have not been listening so this is how I have been getting answers to the clues all this is how I have been doing it – this is all my opinion and not saying im right

  43. Certain concepts must be obtained from the poem for it to lead you to the special place with confidence, that is to be certain for the one who solves the poem;

    First, understand that the Little Girl from India could only solve two clues, and second the solution of each clues leads you closer to the TC, therefore the first 2 clues will probably be near the beginning say in the first two stanzas. I think almost everyone agrees with that.

    Third will be to make yourself aware that not every line or thought is a clue, although ff said “his intention was not to mislead”, and yes I have said it before, it may be a Hint that merely confirms another clue otherwise you may find 14 or 15 clues so if you have a place where the clues seem to be leading you, then ascertain if the HINTS confirm your location, that is why I think that hint in stanza one is the “Key or Legend” of this map we affectionately call “The Poem”.

    Once you have understood this, then ask yourself and also an intelligent friend if yours is truly plausible location/solution and do all the clues and HINTS infer, mean, describe where you think indulgence rests.

    What I am saying is that it may be easier to see, envision, imagine when you actually think you know the place, I have always thought that reading the book had so many places, events etc that picking HINTS out there would become much easier once you have a location in mind, remember, ff said it is not so important what we say it is what we (hint) whisper.

    That is the high percentage shot for finding it.

    Tom T

  44. I just love reading everyones post and their solution to where the TC is..IMO to find the TC u must be wise and no what the blaze is..until u know what the blaze is u will be within 200 feet from the TC..why because the blaze is at least that far from HOB, not Far but to far to walk, heavy loads, and water high…remember be safe ..one day I will search my area that many of u have already searched except u left without the TC because u didn’t know what the blaze is..I have said the Blaze is an item that FF has in his backyard..why because of its beauty.

    • Woody;

      ASPENS _ In the spring the bright new leaves are almost emerald in color…quite pretty…In the summer the back side of the leaves are silvery – and they “quake” in the breezes..In the fall they are “Ablaze” with color….But in winter, with their leaves gone, all that remains are their stark white limbs. I can see why you think that THEY might be the blaze.

      Good luck in your search and STAY SAFE

      JD

        • perhaps, but my guess is ff scent is no longer on the box. It has been about 6 years and it has been exposed to the elements. Like DNA, the evidence is long gone. IMO

    • Karina, just a thought about K9’s and abilities, I am no expert but think about how long your perfume lasts when you apply it ? Now your skin is constantly shedding cells, which is true of all mammals, and other living organisms however like your perfume, these cells will be deposited on the earth and break down naturally through bacteria, water dissolving them etc, so much time even an animal like a trained K9 can no longer perceive the scent from your cells. Surely ff’s scent has long since dissipated by now.

      Cadaver dogs are adapted and trained to find dead or decaying cells:

      https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=cadaver%20dogs%20training

      ff has told searches after the tragic disappearance of Randy Bileyu to leave pets at home, so I hope I helped you, I had searched for Randy and feel close to my fellow searchers, we should all pay attention to ff’s advice, use common sense, would and 80 year old try that trail?

      https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=randy%20bilyeu%20blog

      Tom T

    • Yes. First it has to know what scent it is tracking. All you have to do is go to Santa Fe, and get Forrest to shake hands with your dog. Then drive 8.25 miles north of town, get out of your vehicle, and start tracking northward toward Canada. Good luck and Happy Hunting.

  45. Seeker, and others,
    IMO, one clue equals one answer.
    However, IMO, the search is recursive, and after research and site visits, the list of clues and corresponding answers may well change.
    Currently checking the weather.
    Geoff
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  46. Lots of discussion on clues and answers. I honestly am having difficulty following the logic of why a clue needs an answer or how many clues make an answer, heck we do not even know what a clues is. Sure we know the second stanza contains 3 or 4 of them and the third stanza contains at least two, but what difference does it make if it provides answers or not? Will knowing this get us any closer to the treasure?

    As far as I care, answers belong to questions, and there is only one question in the poem: “So why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek? That to me is the only question that needs an answer, and Mr. Fenn has given a hint to that answer, with: “The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.”

    So expending energy in answering this question I believe makes sense, but should we muddy the waters with a new concept of clues requiring answers of which we do not even know precisely what each one is.

    I prefer to look at the whole poem as information to solve one question, “where is the treasure hidden?” That is the only answer that really matters.

    To try and give a response to something that is not defined, seems counter productive. For instance, take this line: “Begin it where warm waters halt And take it in the canyon down, Not far, but too far to walk.”

    We know this stanza contains 3 or 4 clues so does this line contain one clue or two or three clues?

    A clue could be, “Begin it where warm waters halt” or “Begin it where warm waters halt And take it in the canyon down” or another clue combination could be: “And take it in the canyon down, Not far, but too far to walk”

    So what purpose does it make by isolating whether one piece of information separated by a coma, belongs to one clue or the next? I mean, don’t we just use all that information to solve just one answer? “Where is the chest hidden?”

    Mr. Fenn is on record warning us that excluding any word could be dangerous: “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. ”

    So why attempt to isolate any word to find nine clues, if there is risk involved? Why not use them all of the poem to find just one answer, the only answer that counts?
    The Wolf

    • One further complication to trying to find an answer to just one clue is that it does not leave any room for more imaginative uses of the clues. Mr. Fenn asks us to take a look at the big picture, a 30,000 foot view as pilots call it.

      If we are in the weeds looking a clues in isolation, that could impede real progress. For instance what if one clue, not only provides a tangible answer, but it also provides intangible hints to the next of previous clues. What if all of the clues provide a macro level answer as well as a micro level information?

      What if the confidence required to verify the poem has been solved is supplied only by the cohesive glue that bonds each clue together?

      • Wolf says “Mr. Fenn asks us to take a look at the big picture” but how can we deny great Films were made back before CGI?
        Movies shot on location, i.e.1969 True Grit w/ Mr. Wayne. Why this movie? John starred in over 150 pictures, but only won 1 Oscar( True Grit)
        When the novel came out it was wildly popular. It was an original story, something Hollywood can’t get enough of.
        JW’s acting was a bit better than that of the inexperienced Glen Campbell, but you can clearly see what made the movie a winner ‘Filmed on Location’

        The story-line was solely based in Arkansas, so why in the world did they film nearly all of it in Ridgway Colo?

        The girl falls in the pit And guess what’s down there with her? Truly the most awesome example of time travel ever!!!

        If f could have pulled this off, [it’d doubtful, the pit scene is on private property] legions of new TG fans would watch that scene and then exclaim, ” that’s ff lying there”

      • Thank you, Wolf. My thoughts exactly. I appreciate your well reasoned effort to encourage us to see the big picture.

      • I believe your thinking is on target, what “if” the poem is more at face value than not?
        *Don’t let logic distract you from the poem “f” Mysterious writings.

    • Holy Crap… This is hilarious. Ask a simple question on how many clues does a reader see to find an answer, and some folks go bonkers over the question / term ‘answers’.

      The simple concept that some readers see the poem different is what the question is all about.
      How do you [ the searcher ] read the poem… It not a hard concept to consider that a “clue” is used to find an answer… whether that answer is a place, item, metaphor.. doesn’t matter, it about how a searcher reads the poem.

      Dang… With all the brilliant solvers of this poem posting all their theories and defending it like a pit-bull… I think the question holds, not only curiosity but legitimacy as well.

      Yep, this is hilarious to say the least….

      • Seeker- you are right. It is hilarious. With all this inquisitive minds, why cant we solve this poem?

        • because being inquisitive only helps you come up with questions, clever and creative on the other hand (not to imply that any of these fine folk do not possess these qualities) that is how we get answers.

          • @dys – agreed. Creative helps with being resourceful. But also one needs to get out and look.

          • It is however clear at this juncture that We have not failed, not once. we’ve discovered ten thousand ways that don’t work. Just keep flinging possible solves out there. Keep putting boots on the ground and keep coming back without the chest. Keep searching the same areas over and over again hoping someone missed something and one of us should have it eventually.

            Science is a process not a conclusion and I think that adage applies equally well to our collective attempts.

            Eventually the right person will be at the right place with the right perspective.

        • Pdenver,

          The simple answers is the poem is difficult… we were warned it would be as such.
          That has nothing to do with asking the question I presented. In fact the question was not about a theory or solve, others brought that into the discussion.

          Dys, brought up a good point; “being inquisitive only helps you come up with questions, clever and creative on the other hand (not to imply that any of these fine folk do not possess these qualities) that is how we get answers.”

          To ask questions, especially of one’s self or others with the same interest, help to see different view points. That is how imo, one can become even more creative… isn’t that one of the reason we all join in on these discussions? Now some may say this is a challenge for each individual person to solve, and that has been said in the past. I would ask, if that is so… why are any of us here bothering to talk about it?

          • Hello Seeker. Puzzled stirred your thoughts, not I. Although I’m only taking peeks at today’s discussions, I am finding them interesting. 🙂

          • Sorry PD… I followed the wrong line. I guess I’ll never find the chest if I can’t follow a straight line… lol

          • Actually he said is better to bounce off the corners instead of going down a straight line… don’t you love the guy?

      • Seeker – I will vote that the discussions and responses from your question have been insightful, exception going to the above diatribe.

        Regarding the nine clues, f has said “solve clues in the poem” and “figure out what the clues mean”.

        Definitions:
        Solve – to find the correct answer to
        Figure out – to find a solution for; to discover or solve by thinking

        Just my opinion, but I think that this would mean that finding or determining answers to each of the nine clues is required for finding the chest. I do prefer to keep things simple and not over-complicate them; I am probably missing something in all this because of it.

      • I was under the impression the top posters enjoyed civil debate to provoke a higher level of thinking, and not to scoff at opposing input. I mean isn’t that what this is all about, listening to other opinions in order to make an informed decisions?

        I was simply wondering where all of this was going and what purpose it served. Sure it is great to have an answer for each clue but is it required? What if it turns out, one or more clues don’t require an answer, then what? Have we eliminated ourselves from the chase forever? I guess that was my point, why lock ourselves into a concept without knowing if it valid given the possibility that if we are wrong it could be a lethal mistake.

        Now as far as answers per clue (APC), this concept has lots of potential. Imagine a nervous seeker eager to get out an search and is suspicious that someone might be infringing on their territory; instead of asking what state they are searching, they can ask them for their APC. Or maybe, it could be used as a new progress metric. The number of clues is one metric but what if several searchers have 9 clues? This new revolutionary APC concept can give them incite of how their 9 clues stack up against their competitors. A whole new way to pass those long winters. 😉

        All in good fun!

        • The curiosity of the question was… do 9 clue hold 9 different answers? or can multiple clues give a single answer. Again, it’s not what the answers are, but more a discussion on how the poem is read.
          Example; Should the first two clues that seem to be capable of knowing prior to a search, are they one answer each [ location, item, anything ] or two clues that gives one answer?
          Are the remaining seven clues… that folks have walked pass, went by, etc. a single answer or two or three or more answers.

          The concept is about how the poem is read to possibilities of mistakes made by other searcher. Seemingly every solution posted as an answer for every supposed clue [ being the common knowledge of the poem containing 9 clues ]. If they are locations to be sought after, Are we force fitting location to match 9 different location, when there maybe only 3 or 4 or 5. This does not eliminate the fact or possibility that a clue[s] may not refer to a place at all… it would still be a clue or clues ti indicate what it refers to.

          What I found Hilarious, was the idea a clue doesn’t refer to an answer because there was no question involved… Yep, still laughin bout that there little tiddy.

    • Wold;

      I could not agree more! As I said earlier, maybe I am just stupid, but I am lost, and you explained my point far better than I.

      Thanks

      STAY SAFE ALL

      JD

  47. I just posted a comment under “Architecture of the Poem” – relating to this same subject.

    As I said, I just guess that I am dense.

    Seeker: You say,”If you say WWWH is a clue… ok… but it still needs an answer, what it is, where it is, how does it work with other /clues and answers.”

    wwwh is one line of a three line clue. The other two lines ATIITCD, and NF,BTFTW”

    By selecting a wwwh, yes, I can define it and tell you where it is, and I will learn in time what relevance it has to other clues…if any. When I sought to find wwwh I had to ask myself “What Forrest mean by that?”…the same question that I have to ask about every sentence of the poem.

    “And take it in the canyon down” My wwwh (a small body of water) met a larger body of water, and THEY flowed downhill. I drove, walked, swam or paddled downstream a certain distance…NF,BTFTW (about 10 miles – preface to TFTW).

    What one question ties these three lines together? Not sure I know. Do YOU
    have an answer? Is the question important? Is the answer important? I just
    do not see it.

    I have gotten three tiny steps closer to the Treasure…and am now, thanks to your querry…a bit more confused. Please help me understand the relevance.

    Safe travels

    JD

    • OK,
      If you use those three lines as you said…
      “And take it in the canyon down” My wwwh (a small body of water) met a larger body of water, and THEY flowed downhill. I drove, walked, swam or paddled downstream a certain distance…NF,BTFTW (about 10 miles – preface to TFTW).

      You seem to have three answers, Yes?
      WWWH a small body of water,
      Canyon down, to a larger body of water that both flow,
      not far, 10 miles.
      Three different places, three different movements yet all connected. But you still need the ‘answers’ to which bodies of waters, which canyon/flowed down, and how far. Those are the answers to the clues… yes?

      I don’t see the problem your having with a clue[s] needs an answer.

  48. P.S.

    When you get to be 73, you have to use the KISS theory

    Referring to myself – “Keep It Simple Stupid!”

    All of the above “Q” and “A” is just above my head I guess.

    JD

    • Hello JD,

      I am only 45 and still need to learn that lesson. Thought I had a complete solve then realized this morning that my blaze was incorrect. Should have used the obvious blaze up high instead of the heavy loads below. Tells me I know nothing but its so thrilling to search.

      No wonder I had to eat crow last October after coming home empty handed. On the bright side, my search continues. 🙂

      • I love crow myself. Every time I eat it, somehow I learn something.

        STRANGE!

        STAY SAFE

        JD

  49. this is just my opinion- forrest knew that a clue from the poem was going to be hard to figure out and know if you were right so he started to help us out – with stories and pictures to see if we could catch what he was saying imo that he has told us what is – the canyon what is wwwh – hob the blaze -in the wood heavy loads the only thing he hasn’t told is where the are at its up to us to look where they are at – sorry but this is just my opinion

    • Hey Frank,
      Put your thinking hat on and ponder this:
      Forrest Fenn has told “EVERYONE” the answer. But what Forrest hasn’t told us is “THE ANSWER”…..
      it’s in the poem and his books, good luck & be safe

    • Frank- I agree that FF is sprinkling additional hints in his responses to questions in his interviews.

      • puzzled – I am going to tell you a secrete if you don’t tell any one – the asphalt art – where the truck ran over the cola can is talking about heavy loads and what carries a heavy load — its a road imo

        • Whatever, Frank. I’m going with a fault line or evidence of previous volcanic activity or both. Can’t comment on water high but it is a creative idea that requires imagination to see what isn’t obvious.

  50. I have a feeling the poem is the Key and the stories in the books share similar stories that happend in history… Significant historical dates, mysteries, and other prominent things that have happened over time. Things like JFK, and MLK. And whatever else you can compare these too. “There are 9 clues” is a hint, or a clue to tell you something. You as a searcher, associate 9 clues as there is THAT number of clues in the poem, because the poem is associated with a treasure. But he could be saying, “there are 9 clues” as just a hint to start if off. And the entire poem is 1 big giant clue itself. You are taking the 9 clues thing, as literal sense, when 9 clues could be a riddle. Depending on how tricky you think FF is, this will help or not. If you see FF as this laid back guy, that doesnt like to joke, or have a sense of humor, or have the wits to out-trick you, then you will have a lot of nice trips into the rocky mountains. If you are opened-minded with the poem, FF, and the stories, then you will also have some nice trips to the Rockies, But you might also have some nice gold in your possession. This is just me talking. I am still beyond everyone’s solve from what I see on these blogs, that I dont know is there is anyone out there that has what it takes to retrieve the chest. Physically and mentally. I hope to see better ideas soon, and more outside the box thinking… Good Luck

    • Hello hammertime, I like your comment including MLK and JFK. When you say you are beyond our solve are you saying further along or not quite caught up?

    • Hammertime;

      You say, ” I am still beyond everyone’s solve from what I see on these blogs”

      If this is true, why haven’t we seen your face on TIME magazine, telling us how you were able to solve a puzzle that has baffled over 65,000 people for over six years?

      Why have we as bloggers, never seen anything from you that even intimates at a solution?

      You state: “is there anyone out there that has what it takes to retrieve the chest?. Physically and mentally.”

      How can you measure one’s physical capabilities by reading a blog?

      With all due respect, Mr. Hammertime, you have not demonstrated by your posts that you have what it takes to solve the puzzle…That of course is just my private opinion.

      I will break by rule, and NOT wish you good luck in your search.

      I do hope that you STAY SAFE though.

      JD

    • Arrogant and Stubborn person is doing everything
      his own way, does not Listen to anyone’s advice and soon
      becomes a victim of his dilutions. “Aesop”

  51. “I am still beyond everyone’s solve from what I see on these blogs, that I dont know is there is anyone out there that has what it takes to retrieve the chest. Physically and mentally.”

    While you’re patting yourself on the back that, your beyond all bloggers… who are you referring to as “you” in your post?

    • Well Seeker – some of the definitions of beyond include:

      – outside the limits or range of (something)
      – out of the comprehension of

      I could argue either in this case.

      As for the physical ability to retrieve the chest, if f, at 85, says he could still go to the location, then I suspect that just about anyone who can walk in the countryside shouldn’t have a problem. I have hauled 40+ lb backpacks on long, multi-day camps, so I suspect I could do two trips with about 20+ lbs over several hours. But what do I know?

      I typically ignore HT’s posts because there is nothing I would desire to say with regards to them, but the ego on this comment might be likened to f’s ball of string getting through the door, so it deserves an answer.

      • Regarding HT’s post. I will only quote Mark Twain,

        “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. Mark Twain

        Just my personal opinion.

        JD

  52. Sometimes…it is wise to not even respond at all…
    Now I do not feel so wise…

  53. “It’s not what they say on the blogs that may be significant, it’s what they whisper. f”

  54. There is nothing that is with Ego within my comment. I am not stating that I am better, but I did find a way that the poem works, and it is unlike any other attempted solve that I have seen. That is what I mean by “beyond”. You can interpret it, as I am ahead of everyone, but that would not make sense, now, beings that I do not have the chest. Jumping to conclusions, and shaking my head… I guess I am saying that my work is not “mainstream”. If my comment got this sort of negative reaction, then I can imagine how the rest of the world got out of place… I am not a writer, just a fellow searcher mingling with other searchers.. 🙁
    The physical/mental part simply means, that I do not think that some people have “the balls” to get the chest, until they build up confidence. Ive seen some old people go into some scary places, that I wouldnt even dare to go. Even though its a simple walk, or stones throw.. That doesnt mean you have to be a cliff hanger, or a Navy SEAL to retrieve it. It just means have to be more daring. And some people just arent that daring. They over look the mental danger of things, and find something more comfortable. That is just natural. The poem will lead them into a nice meadow, but in reality, the poem really leads to a dark pit of a cave, from a narrow pathway on the side of a canyon. “DONT LOOM DOWN” type of stuff.. You can get there, just as long as you arent scared to go..

    The approach taken on my comment might be the same approach that some are taking on the Chase itself, and are completely misinterpreting everything that is said…

    • Hello Hammertime. Interesting post. If people weren’t willing to go, would they be using their time posting or lurking? I guess I’m a bit confused with your statement.

      • Each of us are giving the same opportunity to read the poem, try to understand what it means, and go out and look, whether it’s in a dark pit of a cave or a field. That’s the beauty of the chase.

    • Sir I was not giving you a hard time. I could care less if you feel your solve or partial solve is better than everyone else on this site. I was truly interested in your approach on MLK and JFK. Are you willing to put yourself out there and show us how it equates to TTOTC? That is what this site is intended for. Better hammer that one out in your head before you allow others to brave your knowledge though. But, if you are willing by all means I am all ears or in site sense all eyes.

      • I will. I think that the story in TTOTC about where they try to round up the buffalo correlates to the assassination of MLK. But I think the ultimate conclusion has something to do with James Earle Fraser. The sculptor of the Indian head Nickel.
        Fenn states in another chapter about putting a nickel under a grave stone.
        Fenns Dad’s grave stone is at 4-23 Block/row,
        James Earl Ray Dies on 4/23
        James Earl Jones played a version of JD Salinger in “the Field of Dreams”, made from the book Shoeless Joe..

        James Earl is the key here.. 4/23 is a Key.. Earl mught be the hint.. Dunno.. This is just my take on how to connect the book to real life..

        • Hi Hammer. I applaud you for not getting bent out of shape over the reactions to your post. Rising above it speaks to your transparency. Thanks for sharing some aspects of your solve. You may be onto something. Keep at it.

          Without tone of voice, eye contact and body language, words alone can be so easily misinterpreted. There’s a lot of that going around this season. Wash your hands and stay healthy.

        • @Hammer….good stuff….thanks for sharing…seems to me just a coincidence about the death date of James Earl Ray and the cemetery block/row….but, the whole dream field, baseball and an article by Philadelphia Inquirer makes one wonder for sure…I know you have put a lot of energy into researching the chase….I’m just about one year into the ‘thinking’ and reading stage and blogging this month. Thanks!

        • Well Hammer, this certainly explains why you wrote: I am still beyond everyone’s solve from what I see on these blogs, that I dont know is there is anyone out there that has what it takes to retrieve the chest. Physically and mentally. I hope to see better ideas soon, and more outside the box thinking.

          I agree that you are way beyond most everyone’s thinking here. Actually, I don’t think most folks here can even see what box you are in, much less have the ability to get outside of it. Can’t wait to hear where you think the chest is.

          Doing a little research I found out that 4/23 is also:

          English Language Day!
          Impossible Astronaut Day!
          International Marconi Day!
          International Nose Picking Day!
          International Pixel-Stained Technopeasant Day!
          Lover’s Day!
          Movie Theatre Day!
          National Cherry Cheesecake Day!
          National Day of Puppetry!
          National Lost Dog Awareness Day!
          National Picnic Day!
          National Zucchini Bread Day!
          Saint George’s Day!
          Slay a Dragon Day!
          Take a Chance Day!
          Talk Like Shakespeare Day!
          World Book and Copyright Day!
          World Book Night!
          World Laboratory Day!

          • @HammerTime – I’ve enjoyed your posts. I think people run towards what they fear most sometimes – even if they don’t realize why they fear it IMO. When they don’t care – they walk away IMO. You certainly got some folks running toward you!

            Thanks for sharing your ideas.

  55. You state: ” The poem will lead them into a nice meadow, but in reality, the poem really leads to a dark pit of a cave, from a narrow pathway on the side of a canyon. “DONT LOOM DOWN” type of stuff.. You can get there, just as long as you arent scared to go..

    Does not sound like the place that an 80 year old man would go to twice in an afternoon…But what do I know?

    JD

  56. “The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.” – George Bernard Shaw

    HT – had you said it this way the first time, the ensuing comments probably wouldn’t have occurred. Thank you for the additional commentary.

    • I guess I just assumed that I would not have to retract and explain that my comment meant nothing more or less than what it said… Again, Im not writer.. I just share some thoughts, and hope to have a good time..

      JD- I think you have to grow into being wise.. Fenn may had taken this route 1000 times, and knew exactly where to step, crouch, etc.. each time, while at the same time the illusion of danger would appear to someone that has never taken that route. 8 years old or 80 years old. This is Fenns secret spot, and he may be one of the only people who knows how to get in there without the fear of danger, but there may be no danger at all, just seems that way.. The first time I got on a rollercoaster, I was scared to death.. took me a while to get over it, and then I realized that, rollercoasters were not dangerous.. Now I just hop on, without a doubt..

  57. Hammertime,

    I appreciate your individualism. You’re pleasant; not rude. It’s called having class.

    SL

    • Jake, I agree.

      Looking back at a couple of my posts, I find them a bit out
      of character.

      Maybe I am suffering from P.M.S. (Probably My Stupidity)

      If I offended anyone, I apologize. I will take my thirty lashes
      with a wet noodle, or whatever the punishment is for running
      my mouth before fully engaging my brain.

      Good luck to ALL searchers (including HT) and STAY SAFE

      JD

      • JD,
        When you speak your mind & heart, you should not have any regrets.
        I agree with your comments no matter who disagrees.
        Funny though how allot of comments in text get taken out of context.
        Just goes to show the diversity of all.

  58. Ill apologize in advance for not having the proper quote on hand, but not my sarcastic humor.

    I recall ff saying something to the effect that a child would have an easier time solving the poem than an adult but he did not specify why.

    That in mind I can only assume given the frequent discussion regarding the deaths/assassinations of historical figures, locations of graves, people being shot down over Vietnam, occult math, biblical verses, the Greek alphabet, foreign languages, cosmological events, celestial navigation and world war II war crimes. That you all know at least one 12year old conspiracy theorist with no less than 3 P.H.D.s

    • @dys – all very good reasons for why it hasn’t been found in 6 years, right? We should be scanning Ed, Edd, and Edard cartoons for answers? Perhaps you’re taking him too literally about how child-like it all is.

      • Yes I agree. Besides I can only imagine how many adults have handed their kids a copy of the poem and said here now go and figure this out since this stated was given. Hahahaha

        • (25:45) Do you think kids will ever find the treasure? “I think kids may have an advantage”
          Forrest said something to the affect after that they are more agile & have better eye sight.

          Yup, The old Moby
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXupxL4ovmY
          Moby Dickens Book Shop Nov 2nd, 2013

          There may be other interviews floating around about kids helping, but I don’t have that info.

      • I think you miss my point. It’s that we should not be “scanning” anything. Adults tend to view the world as reasonable and rational wherein all things are understood and have a connection and pre-defined meaning.

        Children often behave randomly and impulsively usually in ways that we would see as irrational and short sighted. The do not connect even very rudimentary concepts. Their world up to a certain age is a disjointed series of individual and unrelated events. Their responses to problems so simplistic that they are almost on par with our greatest philosophers.

        Children do not care about, religion, mathematics, law, engineering or common sense. They are tiny sociopaths concerned only with the moment and how best to be comfortable within it. A child would not scan cartoons for deeper meaning or connection to even the slightest hint of anything in the real world (sponge bob is a talking sponge that lives inside an underwater pineapple).

        I think its not been found in 6 years because we are the sorts of people who think too much, not men (or women) of action, thrill and adventurous impulsivity.

        To quote Sherlock Holmes (Sir Arthur Conan Doyle)
        “It is quite a three pipe problem, and I beg that you won’t speak to me for fifty minutes.”
        -Holmes then proceeds to consume a great deal of opium because he is thinking too clearly and quickly to address the abstract issues leading up to the only correct solve.

        • @dys – apologies, I received your original point very clearly. Read a few of my proposed solutions and you’ll see how random, impulsive, and without connection they seem. At the same time Fenn said it was difficult but not impossible. How might a child solve such difficulty? I sincerely hope my kids aren’t smoking pipes of any kind.

          • No need to apologize. It would be in poor form for me to take offense at snark perceived or actual in the course of being snarky myself.

            I’ve got a few myself that are “stupid” but fit.

            I’m a firm believer (but sometimes a hypocrite) that the solution requires little to no knowledge outside some basic geography. And a great deal of imagination/abstraction applied in tandem to it.

            I believe, and Forrest has stressed thinking a great deal. The answer is about “THINKing” or “IMAGINing” and not about “knowing” as “knowing” is a very, very different and often dangerous thing. It is often the only prerequisite for being an absolute fool in my opinion.

            Any solve I come up with I try to ask myself: Did you need the internet to solve this or would nothing but a map and the poem have done it.

            I guess I’m a purest.

    • I trust that someone will correct me if I’m wrong. But didn’t FF say that we should ask a child WWWH? I don’t think he was suggesting that a child could or would solve the poem. I’ve personally asked a 4 year old (answer- what is halt?). Same answer with the 7 year old. Asked several teens. (Answer- ice or freezing). I do not think FF implied that a child could answer anything except WWWh.

        • You might be right Spallies. I wonder if I just answered my own question! Maybe FF was not saying that a child could answer the question about WWWH or anything else in the poem. I do know one thing in the poem that a very young child could positively see! Young children study basic words in school. Often their tests involve identifying words that rhyme. It is a skill that they are supposed to master sometime before the 3rd grade. This poem has only two lines that do not rhyme the way that other lines in the poem rhyme. The words are “halt” and “walk” I happen to think this is a huge HINT almost screaming to be investigated. Certainly there were two words that FF could have used if he really had wanted to have these two lines rhyme. I think that he purposely chose these two words, “halt” and “walk” because he wanted to draw attention to these words. They are essential in the correct solution to this poem! So if we look more closely at these two words, we can see that the meanings of the words themselves are opposites (like a rhyme) even though actual words are not a rhyme. And of course most of us are familiar with the chapter in TTOTC where FF and his friend Donny go off on an adventure and get lost. Donny’s stirrup broke, and he had to ride with one foot. This is symbolic of being lame or “HALT” But, with all hints I see in the book, I ask myself if it would be possible to arrive at the same idea without the book because we should need only the poem and a good map. Yes! We can arrive at this solution with only the poem if we notice that “halt” and “walk” are literal opposites even though they do not rhyme. Both can have something to do with with walking (walking normally or walking lame or HALT. So if we don’t figure out why these two words are possibly the two most important words in the poem, I don’t think we can solve it. I no longer believe that what FF wanted us to “show” a child, was supposed to help us arrive at an answer of any kind. I think he wanted us to show the poem to a child so that the child would point out to us that “HALT” and “WALK” do not rhyme.

          • Puzzled,

            Hope ya don’t mind be barging in… Your analogizing the two words are great, imo, Yet I wonder if we stop there at just those two words being exact opposite.

            Warm and Cold {with warm being in the same sentence / line as halt } are opposites as well. Many words in the poem are as such. New and old for another easy example, and the line directly before WWWH… It does raise an eyebrow to look further into possibilities of not only exact opposite meanings but also mirror image of those. They sound the same, but not so much the same.

            Interesting post.

          • Yes, Seeker- Did you read my post on dichotomy? FF likes dichotomy, opposites and paradoxes. I would be shocked if the correct solve does not involve these things.

  59. After reviewing my recent photos of our (self and kids) favorite site, I realize that I need to shoot at least one more spot, and the weather looks favorable for tomorrow. So, once again:

    Leave the world behind.
    Flowers and tall grass whisper:
    Follow the rainbow.

    (A rainbow, like the feathers on arrows, is a particular pattern of color that indicates ownership, IMO)
    Geoff
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  60. Thank you for your share Hammertime. This is to all. I feel it is important to hear all ideas and posts here. Whether you agree with them or not. Take in what seem important to your possible solve and move on. If one makes fun of another please try to do it in good taste. After all it is a cognitive decision to type here then hit the enter button.
    Sorry Hammer I do not feel the correlation with Cody(buffalo) being MLK. However you put yourself out there so I will give you and all others this. On the subject of MLK, JFK, Cody, French soldiers, and so on and so on. There is at least a common theme. Up to you as a searcher to see if it is worth further investigation.

    • Ace,

      PEACE maker’s would be a common denominator. – All were also opposed to oppression of the black race. (French soldiers for the most part, have held our military in high regard.).

      SL

      • Waterton-Glacier International Peace Park is a nice place. I was just thinking Peace would be the key word. The first park ranger of Waterton park was a one Mr. Brown.

  61. could HOB be a tree?

    There is a tree called Rowan…I read somewhere that they are brown…

    Also if you take the B off of Brown you get rown..maybe shorthand for Rowan..

    Maybe a tree that F planted?

        • Here is one Q&A from f that might help answer your question.

          Q. Did the same 9 clues exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will they still exist
          in 100 years and 1000 years?
          A. The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I
          think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we
          reach the next millennia. The Rocky Mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3,009 it will be more difficult for you to find the treasure. f

          • Thanks JCM..

            I kinda remember this…

            Maybe HOB means the tree line?

            When he says the clues did not exist my interpretation is that his poem did not exist…

            and “but most of the places the clues refer to did.”…mhmmm I wonder why most and not all? Which of the places that the clues refer to were created in the past 70ish years?

        • And one more for you…

          Curious about the long-term fate of both the chest and the quest, I asked Fenn whether the clues in the poem will also withstand the test of time. “I am guessing the clues will stand for centuries. That was one of my basic premises, but the treasure chest will fall victim to geological phenomena just like everything else. Who can predict earthquakes, floods,
          mudslides, fires, tornadoes and other factors?” Fenn says.

          • interesting.. I think the clues with last for centuries means that his poem will last for centuries…

            Also… maybe HOB is the tree line…or maybe the chest rests in the tree line in the Krummholz (in the wood)…maybe under a flag tree(the blaze)?

          • While you can certainly justify the clues as being the poem with the statement above, there are other statements that f has made where he has also used the word “clues” to mean the actual places, or whatever one wants to call them, out in the field.

            Given this, I wouldn’t trust the clues as only being the poem argument to negate or dismiss other things that f has said which could otherwise lay waste to your solution.

            It is better to work at a solution that is strengthened by the things f has said than to have one that requires rationalization and twisting of word meanings to justify the solution to make it legitimate and get around what he has said over the years.

            My two cents; and probably not worth that.

    • The Rowan tree does not occur naturally in the Rocky Mountains. Although I think that looking at trees is still a good idea!

  62. Question- What is the most obvious hint you found on the scrapbooks? even if it doesn’t help you much with the poem…

  63. oz10- I have found at least 12 hints on scrapbook- and they all have help me with the poem

    • 12? that is amazing, I only found 3 or 4 so far but I have to look again. I’m going to try to start a list in order of significance.

  64. SC does tell you one way warm waters halt, by moving down stream. Oh you dont have to take it as ‘the’ location, but It does happen that way.

    • I have one solve that has a creek with a “warm waters” sort of name that runs into a river in a canyon.

      Read the first two clues together in one sentence…
      “Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down,…”

      But my solve wouldn’t allow for 2 trips in an afternoon, so it doesn’t work.

      • Buckeye Bob- I have a thought that may or may not help you. I noticed something about the statement FF made concerning hiding the treasure. I know many/if not everyone, now believes that FF walked from his car with a portion of the treasure, back to the car, a second walk from the car with the second portion of treasure, and then back to the car again in a single afternoon. But, consider a different scenario.

        I am not sure we are interpreting his words correctly. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.

        I think he said he made two trips from his car and finished in a single afternoon. But I am not sure we can say for absolutely positive that he said he “STARTED” the first trip from the car on the same afternoon that he “FINISHED” the second trip from the car. Isn’t it possible that he started on a different day than he finished.

        If this were the case, then maybe you should not give up on a good solve because it seems too far.

        I don’t know what your solve is,but if you think it is solid other than being to far, I say go for it. I would.

          • Cholly’s right: “it” is the mission. Ocham’s Razor. Given the minimum altitude (nearly a mile) and his load, I doubt the hiding place was more than a mile from where Forrest parked. Of course, he has the benefit of knowing where he intends to hide the chest. The clues he selected for us may describe a less direct path.

        • Hi Forrest,
          You once said you walked the 92 miles from West Yellowstone to Bozeman to just experience it. Obviously you were much younger than you were when you hid the treasure. Too far to walk means different things at different ages so I was wondering if you would be so bold as to give an estimate of how far you walked to hide the treasure after leaving your car: was it >10miles, between 5 and 10 miles, between 1 and 5 miles, or less than 1 mile? ~Thanks, Ron

          Ron, your question sounds like a travelogue, but I’ll answer it. No, I don’t want to be that bold. But I will say that I walked less than a few miles if that will help. I just looked “few” up and one definition is “scant.” Why do I sound like I’m talking in circles? f

          —————————————————————-

          I put this quote up just to add to the previous quote. In this question it was asked, imo one trip to the hide from the car.
          “…how far you walked to hide the treasure after leaving your car:”

      • Buckeye Bob,
        “I have one solve that has a creek with a “warm waters” sort of name that runs into a river in a canyon.”

        I understand that this is one solve you’re looking into, So my comment is just generic to yours…
        Why is it we think wwwh needs to be higher than the canyon? A lot of folks, such as yourself, attempt to match names with places… regardless of what I think about that… could “Down” relate to a name of a canyon? leaving the travel up stream where waters halt at the end of that canyon.

        Essentially, Find the canyon that is needed to find the WWWh … start wwwh at the low end of the canyon [ Falls canyon, Goose canyon, Fluffy Feather canyon etc.] and take the journey in.

        The other thing, is about Take it in… If wwwh is a high area, are we to travel “down” the canyon or just “view” Not far, to hoB, and go from that point on? Meaning the only way to see hoB is by that vantage point…possibly far off in the distance.

        Just a thought

        • All possible, Seeker.
          All we can do is look at all options.

          One thing I’ll add as another possibility…
          IF the solve has a creek running into a river in a canyon down, I suspect that:
          “The end is ever drawing nigh”
          That the river runs to the right, since it draws from the left.
          And that the end of the solve is also left, or upstream.
          (Drawing nigh/left, flowing right.)

          So, depending on the solve and the circumstances, I think we can make certain “sure” reads from the poem.
          We have to be agile, eh?

          • Wait. “Drawing nigh/left”, if I visualize it, I’d say that the water was being drawn left. Reverse of what I said using my logic, which may be faulty anyways.

        • seeker imo- this is my understanding of how things are – yes you have to find rhe right canyon to get on the road that takes you to the treasure chest its my opinion that you don’t have to go wwwh or hob you just have to know what they are and where they are on the map this just tells you that you are on the right road -and this you can find on a map once you know what is wwwh the only place where you will need botg is from where he parked to in the wood to where he hid the tc if ff drove there why would you want to walk – wwwh – hob -the blaze are just like road signs that tells you that you are going the right way- ethis is just my opinion – you take it from here

          • I would tend to MOSTLY agree with this thinking. There is the possibility that heading and facing may be a factor and if you skip ahead you will be in the right place but not under the right circumstances.

            Just to be safe I would keep that in mind when jumping to the best place to park.

          • ps -when you get to where he parked wwwh and hob should be miles away imo

          • Care to share with the rest of the class? I usually operate under the assumption that put in equates to park. In my solves I usually park as close as possible and south of HOB.

            Mind you I only have one HOB that I actually like but have to crowbar into the rest of the clues and a dozen or so that I don’t like but fit the rest of the poem just fine so its largely a moot point i guess.

            But that is my crux point and if you are willing to share why you think that, I’d love to hear it.

          • Frank,
            Honestly, the way fenn went to hide the chest is probably nothing like the clue we need to follow. That said… If we need to actually “follow” step by step the clues… I don’t think there is a road involved at all. I tend to think the clue trek is botg only.

            The other thought to this is, If only the first two clues can be found prior to a search [ again IF ] then is reasonable to think that the other seven clues discovery has some reason to be at that or those location[s]. Could there be information needed to be known at any of the locations the clues refer to?

            Example; Not far, but too far to walk… Could this be a clue, and if so, is there something at clue 1 and/or 2 that tells us how far. I’m beginning to think that even though the poem explains what is necessary… information for finalization is understood at some point on site.

        • seeker imo – not far but to far to walk to me only means one thing and that is to drive there- so to me the end is ever drawing nigh is but in below the home of brown but its to far to walk imo also I think that heavy loads is a road to me it says that the chest is between the road in the wood and the creek that’s why it says no paddle up your creek and what carries heavy loads is a road all this imo

          • Ok… I can’t argue right or wrong. Just seems to be more time spent in the vehicle than walking. It sounds like you’re basically driving from the start of stanza 2 and complete that drive to stanza 4.

          • @Seeker – there is driving involved according to my interpretation of the poem. In my case it isn’t until he uses the word “seek” in the poem.

          • I feel absolutely certain that, “TOO FAR TO WALK” isn’t about transportation of any kind; not walking, driving, horseback riding, canoe, etc. I think it is a poetic way of saying that we are going to “walk through time”. I am 100% convinced of this!

          • Oh my! I thought I might be the only one that considered that in earnest. The question now is did you figure out how far? I’ve got a suspicion but it seems to not follow as clearly as I would have liked. Perhaps I am focusing too much on it being move or wait when I don’t see a reason really that it could not be both.

          • Hi Dys- I did not figure out how far it is. I think it depends on how the other clues fit together. I can’t imagine it being more than 10 miles but some have suggested no more than 4. I personally would probably not give serious consideration to two clues that are more than 10 miles apart, although I suspect they really should be much, much closer than that. If you consider the entire line, “not far, but too far to walk”, it seems to say that the next step is “close” or “near”. I currently am working on three different solves. Two of them seem like serious possibilities and so far the clues are lining up with both of them. None of the clues so far are more than a couple of miles, but as I said, I would not discount clues that seem correct but are up to 10 miles apart.

          • Hello Puzzled and all other searchers,
            IMO you should never say 100%. For one this will never allow you to be biased to your own ideas. Imo you should allows allow yourself an out. I had what I felt was a solid solve. I kept on critiquing it and realized there was more to learn. I am still learning. My solve even though confident, will never be 100% even if I have the chest in my hands. There still will be some reserve on what each clue and each word meant through Forrest Fenns eyes. This is why I am still learning if my solve is the right one I will have given it it’s fullest attention.

          • Ace- probably wise advice most of the time. But in this instance “I feel absolutely certain” that TFTW is NOT about transportation. How can I be so certain? Because two other clues and several hints point to this IMO. And I always state “I feel” or “I think” or other words to convey my thoughts. I was surprised when I saw the connection. It explained to me who or what “I” represents in the poem. I’m really entertained by what I discovered! It is such a different approach to the poem which now seems so obvious that I couldn’t believe I hadn’t thought of it sooner. Still lots of study before I head out to “where”. I have not stated my opinion as fact but it is a strong opinion and I stand by it! And if I didn’t feel so excitedly confident, then I would not proceed with confidence.

          • seeker imo I don’t think that forrest walked from hob to where he hid the tc it to far to walk – I do think that he walked from the road where he parked his car to hide the tc – its just my opinion

          • Puzzled,

            I agree… now the question is, What does time or a a time factor have to do with the poem. The line, ‘the end is every drawing nigh’ could relate to time as well. If fact i have read the poem as life and death or creation to demise and past and present… even future.

            So is one line seemingly referring to time or in your opinion can the poem refer to time as a whole?

            I’ll add this for thought. So hear me all and listen good… Might this sound like a eulogy… keep in mind the meanings of the word and not the common definition.

            A tribute is one meaning.

          • I have three different solves I am currently working on. Each of them involves time in a different way.

          • Frank, IMO I read the poem as a journey that FF is leading us on that is TFTW. HOB and WWWH are probably close to each other. “Put in”, to me, means get in a canoe or raft and and ride down the canyon. You will get out at the “end”, and you will be near the blaze and the chest. In TFTW FF describes the fishing trip that he took as a kid was about 10-12 miles, but that it is too far to walk now. IMO, once you can find the “end”, there will be a road nearby where he parked and walked to hide the treasure. Less than a mile and a half, probably much less. IMO the hidey spot could be 500 ft or less from the road.

            Everybody needs to pay attention to his instructions: Fundamental Guidelines:
            When searching please don’t get target fixation or become obsessed with your solve to the point where you ignore these fundamental guidelines.

            If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.

            Don’t search anywhere an 80 year old man could not carry a heavy backpack.

            etc. I think a lot of people are not taking these two things to heart. I would suggest to anyone to put twenty-two pounds in a back pack, hike for thee hours, and see how far you traveled. FF probably went less.

          • I really think we need to rethink the quote from FF about the treasure being hidden in one afternoon. He says he made two trips from his car and it was done in one afternoon. So this leads us all to think that both trips were done in one afternoon, but that is not exactly what he said. He said “it was done” in one afternoon. That only “implies” it was started the same afternoon but the statement doesn’t actually say that it was started and finished in a single afternoon. Possibly it was started one afternoon and “done” in an afternoon but not necessarily the same afternoon. I think a few people may have solves that they are discounting because they are not allowing for the possibility that the first trip was made one afternoon and the second trip was “done” in an afternoon.

            Sometimes FF says something and we just assume we understand, but perhaps we only think we know what he said.

          • Goofy and Everyone- I am not saying that FF did not make two trips to the car in a single afternoon; hence starting and finishing the hiding in one day. What I am saying is that FF likes wordplay and I do not discount that he could be using wordplay in his answers to questions as well as in his poem. Goofy provided a nice link for us above. It shows a followup question from someone, rewording the question, “Forgive me if this is redundant, but were both trips made on the same day/date? Not to be anal, but that would be one spinaroo of the giant ball we call Earth that constitutes a single 24-hour day to its humble inhabitants” FF answered but the answer is not direct. I would assume that the guy was trying to get FF to say, “yes, both trips were on the same day”. But FF did not say that. He said, “I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.”

            So all I am saying is that the answer FF gave, could be interpreted a different way. Forrest has said “its not what they say; it’s what they whisper” FF likes to give tricky answers. This could be an evasive way of answering to imply that indeed both trips were made in a single day, but it also could be a vague way of whispering that there is another possibility.

            FF did say directly that the chest is above 5,000 feet and not in Utah or Idaho. I personally cannot see any whispers there. So no, Goofy- I am not suggesting you head for Utah. I am suggesting you listen to “WHISPERS” Hmmm…. now that I thinking this over, it could be that “listen well” means to listen for whispers. Interesting. . .

          • In your saying that I stopped to wonder why I think their is any walking at all involved when it clearly states that will not help. Dropped another pin in my map of “eh, maybe” places. Right at canyon down. Otherwise I would have never thought to actually look for the TC at my starting point.

            Still don’t think its there for other reasons but Ill have to confirm that ff excluded that area like I think he did.

          • How about this thought team: Seeker, Wolf, Puzzled, Jake, cholly, pdenver, Goofy, Dal, SL, JCM, JD, Spallies, JDiggins, diggingypsy, locolobo etc. etc. you can all correct me if I am wrong. I have heard people say that he took the TC in one trip and then the treasure in another trip. I have only heard that on the blogs and have not read anything from Forrest stating such. I have only seen the quote that he made two trips from his car to the hiding spot and he did it all in one afternoon.
            With my solution it is very possible that he did in fact make two complete trips in one afternoon. What he carried in particular on each trip is not that important. However, my wife made a comment to me several months ago about this and I find it hilarious in thought and practical in reality.
            What if Forrest got out of his car and walked towards the hiding spot with EVERYTHING in hand. Lets say he walked about a 1/2 mile before realizing that he forgot his sandwich and flashlight. So he makes another trip back to his car to get them and then continue to make a second trip to the hiding spot. Now you have 2 trips from his car to the secret spot in one afternoon, and he may have literally walked less than a “few” miles in total. 😉
            It would explain why he reminds us to take those particular items… he forgot them the first go-round. lol. He said he made two trips from his car, but he never said he went to the hiding spot twice.

          • Med, he has talked about when he hid the chest on several occasions. You guys really need to do some research.

            Here’s just one:
            Mr. Fenn,
            When you made the two trips from your car to hide the chest and the gold, did you carry it openly in your hands or in some type of bag or backpack?

            I did both. It was a special time of fulfillment for me and I can still sense now, the elation I felt then. It’s the only time I recall laughing out loud at myself. Hiding that treasure chest full of gold and jewels was fundamental to how I feel about living life to its stretched best, and it emphasizes my aversion to seeing anyone be a spectator to today’s opportunities.f

            http://mysteriouswritings.com/into-the-arena-featured-question-with-forrest/

          • med_evac,
            You left out allot of important faces here. You could have said all.
            I think you have created a conundrum from a non conundrum.
            It appears your distance from where he hid it & where he parked his car is within the limits of what he said.
            Maybe I’m not understanding the question if this is not a viable solution.

          • My thoughts, exactly. That’s TFTW with that much for sure!
            However, I believe the distance may be different, and perhaps not because he forgot anything, rather was loading a second mode of transport? Remember, he doesn’t trip very often. 🙂

          • Med-evac. your scenario is possible, but does not offer any important info to the solve. The sandwich is a metaphor. I sure didn’t see that coming! Was trudging along with my three possible solves, checking word definitions, homophones, etc. Then I suddenly realized that my “word that is key” was important, but it wasn’t the key. I realized what the “word that is key” really was. I was so surprised at how this one word actually fits the entire poem together-I actually thought I was going to hyperventilate. I’m still shocked at my discovery. Who knows if I can now locate the TC but I believe I have a 12 mile area in which the chest is sitting. So anyway, the sandwich is a metaphor that probably can only be seen when you get the “word that is key”. Without that, the TC will never be found. The flashlight is Essential for safety while hiking but it is the light that is important. Good luck!

          • Med_evac – Not Obsessed referenced this quote up the chain here:

            If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.
            http://dalneitzel.com/2016/02/05/fundamental-guidelines/

            That is sound advice and a good measuring stick to use on a solution. It’s also consistent with the other comments from f on two trips in one day. But don’t let my opinion stop anyone from going whatever direction they are compelled to go.

  65. but 4 mile of my trip is a horse trail,from the car park
    i am sure FF can ride a horse, that just leaves a 4 mile hike (2 trips)
    to the blaze and the TC

  66. The Erroll Flynn scrapbook entry was a doozy, IMO.
    Geoff
    “Have flashlight, will travel”
    (Traveling now.)

  67. Hey guys made it back to hotel. Only got 15 minutes to look. No tc. I’m tired, goodnight.
    Ps I’m happy to send you$2 jake.

    • Rest easy Kedar’s Mom. Get some good nourishment in the AM and go forth. Have faith

    • KM, you can’t give Jake 2 dollers yet. You cannot be done after only 15 minutes of searching. You said you only get one shot at this. Are you and your partner searching tomorrow? Did you ever run into any snow? Sorry for so many questions especially the snow lol. If you are done, that stinks. I thought you might be the chosen one. Don’t give up yet.

    • Hello Kedar’s Mom. Glad you made it safely to your hotel. Fifteen minutes of searching and you’re ready to give Jake two dollars? I think those are only words coming from a tired woman. Hope today brings you plenty of smiles and great memories. Have fun and be safe. 🙂

    • Good morning KM,
      Hope you had fun.
      You can keep the 2 bucks & buy Kedar some red liquorice.
      It appears you rode right to your spot.
      Remember what Forrest said about walking to it.
      I think I know what he means by no short cuts.

  68. KM;

    Glad you made it safely to your destination. Hope that you have more than 15 minutes today, and that you do find what you are seeking…Whether that be the
    TC or not.

    Happy Hunting, and STAY SAFE

    JD

  69. We are leaving today. : ( The public road to our spot was gated, we had to drive hours on 4 x4 trail to get around, that was pretty fun, but ate up all our time, and we had to walk because after we got around gate back to rosd only to find out it was washed out. Deb got as far as she could, only my husband and I made it and tbh with out any gps I don’t even really know if I was where I wanted to be. I really did find a blaze on atopo map with something there when I looked down. Moral of the story. 15 minutes not enough time. We drove out over two hours in the dark. Scary but fun. That’s all for now. Thanks guys.

    • Sounds like you had quite the adventure even without finding the chest. I hope you share some photos. Safe travels and happy hunting in the future.

  70. KM sorry to hear about having not enough time to really put in a good search. I’ve learned my lesson from previous searches. Note to all: always add at least one extra day for searching because something will always come up to hinder you.
    Good luck in your future searches KM 🙂

    • Absolutely Arnold! Kinda like my last search, hey everybody.. We were just checking in and my wife passes out cold cracks her head wide open and you end up in the hospital VIA ambulance until weee hours of the morning and the search ends their…
      And I didn’t find the TC in the Hospital either.
      KM, so sorry for you. It hurts to drive like that only to get cut short. But don’t give in to it. Learn something from your trip and use it to plan on coming back…Sooner or later someone, somewhere, sometime will have the right trip out there, and it could still be you.
      Be safe on the road, it’s easy to be distracted when thinking about your search and not the road.. I know, I drive from Il. when I go out to do my searches, but that’s another story..

  71. not obsessed – I hope you find this comment I did not see a reply to comment so I came down here-I agree that wwwh and hob are close to each other but I don’t see a canoe or raft and rideing down a canyon to the end and be near the blaze and the chest with just – put in – its ok like you said its just your opinion – what I find is – put in – to me means that its hid below the home of brown (put in – hid-) and that’s just my opinion

  72. Can anyone tell me what Forrest Fenn’s father taught? Didn’t I hear that for a time, he was at the University of Colorado? What department was he in?

    • He was the principal at Forrest’s school (Central Middle School). I think he went to TCU. But I am not sure what he taught off the top of my head.
      Now that I have wrote this out, I just realized that central and middle, mean the same things.. Forrest said something about him “in the middle”. I wonder if the school has something to do with it, other than him being the middle child..

    • Forrest’s Father was a Principal of Reagan Jr High in Temple, Texas. I can’t be certain, but believe that he taught Math.

      Following is a great newspaper article from 1954 that was written about him: (Scrapbook 136):

      http://lummifilm.com/images/mfbc54.pdf

      Might need to ‘Zoom’ a bit.*

  73. The May issue of National Geographic is all about yellowstone park.Some good photography, articles and a pullout map! May be of intrest to any of the Yellowstone searchers on the blog.

    • An interesting article, but doubt that it has a relevance to the Chase.

      But then again, ANYTHING that Forrest says MIGHT be important.

  74. thank you “all” for the input. I sincerely appreciate the feedback.

    • Hi Med_evac — tried to reply a half-dozen times to your long 3:37 pm message this afternoon, but none are posting. This attempt is more diagnostic than informative; if it works, I’ll send a shorter version of my original message since length seems to be a filtering factor.

    • OK, that worked. Short message theory confirmed. 😉 So here’s part 1 of my original msg. While I’m in favor of keeping an open mind on many aspects of this hunt, I feel you should take the opportunity to exercise triage wherever possible. This is one of those occasions. Getting 42 lbs. of metal, plus a backpack, plus yourself, at altitude, from point A to point B is not a skip through the forest. A smart, nearly 80-year-old man will know that doing it all at once is unnecessarily risky and might well injure him. Two or more trips is the only sensible approach. …

      • logic would have me agree with you. In my particular solution the trail is almost flat… Almost. I also think ff could have done it once not saying he did. I tend to believe he made two trips. My family is from the Rockies. FF can’t tell us how many 1000’s of miles he has walked. But my observation is that he is relatively healthy and does not seem to be suffering major medical issues. Furthermore, my father is 76 and him and I still make trips into the woods. I figure if my own father can carry a 60 pound pack, maybe ff could too.

    • Continuing, the hard part for Forrest would be deciding the safest order to move things. Either way he chooses, the gold or the chest is going to be unprotected for some length of time. Does he trust where he’s left his car?

      Since we know he must trust the hiding place, and the gold is worth more than the chest, I figure trip #1 he takes the contents of the chest (or most of the contents) and leaves the bronze chest in his trunk. He takes the goodies to his intended hiding place (or close to it), perhaps inside a heavy burlap bag to keep everything clean, and secrets them. He then goes back to the car for the chest (crossing his fingers that no one has broken in), returns to the hiding place, loads it up, hides it well, covers his tracks, and skedaddles back to the car, laughing all the way.

  75. @Goofy. Thank you for that particular comment. I had not read that yet. IMO I interpret that as he acknowledges the two trips “towards” the destination, and that he perhaps had all of the treasure in a backpack, the bracelet on his wrist and a couple coins in one or both hands. All IMO of course.

  76. While looking for other information, I came across this blog and this e-mail question apparently sent to and responded by FF. Dated; 2-15-2016. Take it for what it’s worth… I hold no legitimacy to it.

    https://bloggedinthewoods.wordpress.com/

    “Me: Good afternoon Mr. Fenn, I have a hypothetical question: If the U.S. government fell today and all road signs, all government landmarks, and all labels and names removed from existence and maps….would it still be possible to solve the clues in the poem? Assuming of course nothing changed the actual physical landscaping of the Rockies. Basically when you mentioned the chase could last 1000 years, are you assuming so would the U.S. government and their duty to mark landmarks, etc.”

    “FF: I could still go back and get the treasure.”

    • ” Assuming of course nothing changed the actual physical landscaping of the Rockies. ”

      In that case, of course he could return and get it!!….”His” roadsigns and landmarks would still be intact, and readable.

      With the given the parameters, if he had said anything different I would leave the Chase…..posthaste. 🙂

      • I’ve always believed that the poem was created using a simplicity that totally eludes adult, mature thinking! The poem has done what F wanted it to do, baffle and create a “what if” that encompasses and ignites the imagination. With that type of artistry, there is no need for man made markers.
        Of course, he is able to go to the treasure, he’s been there several times before. No need for signs. If all man made signs were removed thru the 3 states I’d need to go thru to my Grandma’s house, I could still get there. His answer is eliminating any clues that break down to road numbers, etc, which he’s already said before…nothing hiding in the poem, straight forward.
        Wwh, canyon, Brown, meekless place, HL&WH, blaze…are all natural features. They will be there longer than we will, unless Nature decides to create a new pallet.
        (IMO)

        • In my opinion spelling is an important landscape feature and I adhere to the calculated quest with peace. Good luck to the many obstacles that may wish to impart a veer in my chosen path. Could this be why the Navajo had no word for art?

      • Physical landscape aside…

        “all road signs, all government landmarks, and all labels and names removed from existence and maps….would it still be possible to solve the clues in the poem?”

        This does raise an eyebrow to what a “good map” is, and what information from that good map is needed. I personally don’t hold PM messaging as completely reliable… I just thought it was interesting.

    • “FF: I could still go back and get the treasure.”

      Of course HE could.

      • Hey Oz,
        I see it the same way… Given that fenn knows exactly where he placed the chest, under most circumstances ‘he’ would be able to go back to the chest. This may be nothing more than fenn simply replying to someones question, without giving up information.

        But for fun, if he actually meant that 1000 year later, with no use of typical markers of a conventional map… he could ‘still’ go back with use of the poem. As I said before it raises an eyebrow to what a good map is [and poem].

        I also find it interesting to the responses of searchers… We dissect and analogize every word fenn says, Yet how easily some dismiss one comment as Fenn talk and there is nothing usable, and use another comment [ related to the same ] to say fenn is giving a major hint and it works to confirm my solve.

        When I ran across this blog and saw this e-mail exchange [ reiterating, I personally don’t hold e-mails/pm to be reliable ] It did make me ponder about Little Indy’s map. A US map of the Rockies. In the most general sense, a typical map as all those labels, markers, names of places etc. even most maps hold some kind of distinctions… mountainous areas, Forest areas, water areas, color code areas such as elevations etc.

        So I asked myself… If a map is a map, and if the more detailed a map is the better… What is a good or right map? IF none of the markers etc. are needed. And how large of a map will help?
        A world Map?
        A Watershed map?
        A topo map?
        A High elevation map? with no markers, such as GE or a birds eye view if you will]
        Are there ‘other’ mappings we need to consider? Such as a type of diagram… for lack of a better term.
        Are any “labeled” maps needed?

        The word “still” was curious to me… maybe indicating that, as long as the land movement remained similar, the poem should lead one to the chest… still; as an adverb relates to time, as well as; all the same.

        Like I said, it was just interesting to read… And something to ponder.

        • Seeker, lets say he did not try to evade the question and he truly means there is no need for a traditional marker or names, then the solving of the clues could be as simple as using the topo map. imo

          It will be something like “between the deepest canyon and the highest geyser find the formation that resembles an omega and inside of it look where the stream halts. That seems pretty simple but we will still need identifiers (deepest, highest, omega, inside and halts). Or we will be searching all the canyons 8.25 miles north of his house to around where the US/Canada border used to be.

          • “Or we will be searching all the canyons 8.25 miles north of his house to around where the US/Canada border used to be.”

            Does seem we are doing just that now…

            Do you think a guy like Russell Osbourne could find the chest by the descriptions in the poem? And without ‘labeled’ mappings. That would be a could question to ask fenn.

            Then again, the question is similar to the one we’re discussing.

          • Yes, the poem does not have identifiers and any reference to a geographic location will be too generic, ie WWWH. What Word Will Hash it?

          • Oz,
            Just saw this post…
            “Yes, the poem does not have identifiers and any reference to a geographic location will be too generic,”

            I’m gonna have to disagree completely that the poem does not have Identifiers. This is a poem needing interpretation and the vagueness is the lack of imagination imo.

            My example is, no place for the meek to mean the back bone of the RM’s [interpretation]. That is a reference to a geographical and geological location [relating to, the RM’s are still moving comment]. The problem is, this may not be specific enough for some to consider. The directional, step by step method of reading the poem… dismisses this type of interpretation simply because the area is large and not site specific enough to have a single location.

            If an identifier works solely from labels on a map, doesn’t that add to many possibilities to consider? Example, meek as a graveyard, or reference to a name of a mountain, a person, a town a road ( route 66 or haunted highway) etc. by using labels.

            So with WWH and as you asked what word would hash it? Is looking for a word on a map the way to hash it? Hot Springs, Firehole, etc. There are several hundreds of matches that could be considered, when using labels.

            If we are talking geographical areas of the RM’s does warm have to be site specific to a small location? Warm as in water and using the “KiSS” method so many enjoy, can simply apply to liquid waters that travel down canyons from snow melt and rain… not far but to far may indicated the thousands of mile water travels. hoB in this scenario means ‘habitation’ [I’ll skip that for now] No place for the meek may just be the CD and the watershed where warm waters begin it’s journey to the river bottoms… the end is ever drawing nigh [ near ] is the location near the end of the RM’s range on the CD and north of SF. Is the blaze that the poem refers to the CD itself?

            All indicators are geographical in nature and non label usable or necessary. What I mean by that is… no true labeling needed, just a knowledge of geography might help. WE humans place labels on places, geography is slightly different… Such as in the wood may refer to, saddle or a saddle of a mountain pass. Do we really need to know the name of that ‘pass’ if we followed the poem to it?

            IMO the vagueness of the poem is not about label necessity for an identifier, but more a L&C version of noticing features of the land[s] we travel and how WE relate to those feature to understand what is being told.

            Could Russel Osborne follow this poem?

    • Its also one of those clever evades fenn is so well known for. Notice he said “I Could” not anyone could. I am sure he could the same thing if the question was about being blind.

      • Dys, I was thinking exactly that. I wonder if ff gets asked if someone who is clinically blind will have a chance at solving the clues and if his answer will be “a blind person will not get closer than the first 2 clues”

      • That’s a good point Dys. [ again, this being an email exchange] But how do we decipher what is and is not “evading ” when it comes to any question presented to fenn. A lot of searcher think fenn hands out hints/clues in Q&A’s [ and I dare say he would know that even an e-mail exchange would hit a blog eventually ] so do we dismiss it?

        On the ARCGIS thread, their talking / explaining about all kinds of map used for helping solve the location… So, What IF… some those maps are the types needed… no lables, names, markers etc.? Seeing we have been told Tools helpful are the poem clues deciphered, the book, GE and /or a good map, If this exchange is accurate… does it help on the map[s] we need to look at?]

        • Seeker,
          You said: “But how do we decipher what is and is not “evading ” when it comes to any question presented to fenn. ”

          IMO it’s relatively easy in this case. He has frequently said that he will not give out information to individuals asking for help with the poem. Since this was a private communication and not originally intended to be common knowledge, we can trust that there was no hint intended….that would violate his ethics.

          I would also point out that he has said he “could go right to it anytime” before so this isn’t exactly a new statement.

          If we don’t trust Forrests sense of fair-play we can’t trust anything.

          • This is also my usual assumption. To add to that I have a firmly held belief that the best way to hide something is with obfuscation (too much useless information) rather than concealment (too little useful information).

            The difference between the two for a comparison is wearing all black vs wearing camouflage. Camouflage is usually more useful and it does this by adding color to invalidate the perceived form.

            Another example: looking up someone whose last name is 15 letters long and 3 of them are X’s in it rather than someone named Smith. Both might be hard but looking up smith will take way more sifting and research.

            Any time I read or hear anything ff has said (outside the poem of course) I do my best to disprove it as useful information. If I am wrong, and it was useful I will be a tiny hint behind. But If I take it as useful and it is not I could risk scraping a good or even winning solve because I tried to shoehorn in a single misunderstood statement.

            Of course do as you will and take my advice with a grain of salt (I obviously have no room to talk until I’ve gotten myself a treasure chest) but as for me Ill stick with the safe bet for now.

          • I agree with Dys. I believe Forrest has obscured the hiding place by adding much useless information. I have come to a few conclusions though. I do not look for hints in his books. I focus on the poem and understanding the words and phrases he used in the poem and considering how alternate meanings, homophones, etc might change the meaning of the poem. So far, I think this is the best way for me to deal with the poem because he did say that all we need is the poem and a good map. What kind of map? Well, actually I think I discovered this week that we need more than one kind of map, or perhaps its a chart and a map (not sure what to call it). The “word that is key” (IMO) tells us what kind of map/chart/guideline we need. It certainly makes more sense out of the poem than I ever thought I could.

            I also think some of FF interview questions might be of some help. But if his answers are not concrete, then I try to take them as possibilities rather than definite indicators.

            I very strongly believe that places that were mentioned in TTOTC are not likely to be the location of the TC. I know there are hints in TTOTC, but I think hints are much more subtle than to outright name a location. Hints direct us to his way of thinking. For example; before I decided not to focus too much on his books, I read TTOTC a couple of times. I know there are some things in it that others consider to be hints; like the cemetery picture. FF said the TC is not in a cemetery. But that does not mean the picture is not significant. In fact, I didn’t think it was important in the least, regardless of what anyone else thought. Then I figured out (IMO) what the “word that is key” actually is. Wow! It helped me see how the poem is constructed and how the words and phrases work together. I have a ways to go before I can say I have a complete solve. But, instantly when I had that (IMO) “word that is key”, I could see how that cemetery picture was a metaphor and how it worked with the poem (IMO). Its like a light came on. Maybe it was the flashlight I’m supposed to use.

            I don’t like sandwiches, so hopefully a nice trail mix will work out ok with the flashlight.

          • The fair play angle is a bit of a stretch… I can argue that other Blog owner / site runners have chatted with fenn in private and come back with comments stated by fenn… and most searcher eat that up.

            What I think is being left out, is the other after the fact comment that relate to this conversation… comments of Little Indy and a US map of the Rockies, Fenn’s thought of 100, 1000 and even 10,000 years down the road, The tools we have been told that will help, such as GE and/or a good map, The comment a map is a map and the more detailed a map the better etc.

            While each of us… self included… can make excuses why we can dismiss this or not, It does have a lot of the other factors of well know after the fact comments related to it. Is this really any different than Dal [ hope you don’t mind me using you as an example ] saying fenn told me in a pm / email this that or the other?

            Anyways… allow me to repeat myself; “Take it for what it’s worth… I hold no legitimacy to it.” But I do think it is interesting nevertheless.

            ColoKidd, I do agree with your assessment, It was probably not ‘intended’ to be hint.

        • It would be a long and drawn wall of already posted text to put here for your convenience but I posted one of my “what if” but probably not really solves up to “home of brown” on this thread and the home of brown thread last week (I think) when someone mentioned that there is no such thing as “down” on a map.

          It might give you a few ideas but I beat that dead horse into the most tender cheval any human would have ever tasted and came up with nil. Perhaps it might be of use to you (or anyone else for that matter) in evaluating other qualities of maps.

          • I assume you found the original post lol. Is Austraila brown on your map? I hear it mostly is in real life.

        • My approach in considering if he is evading a question is straight-forward.

          Q. Are there subtle hints in the book?
          A. Yes, if you can recognize them.

          Q. ….would it still be possible to solve the clues in the poem?
          A. I could still go back and get the treasure.

          He didn’t answer anything related to the question… 🙂

          And now we are all theorizing what he meant by his non-answer. This is marketing at its best. Get everyone talking about something by simple, unclear statements that could mean any number of things; f is getting pretty good mileage on this one today, and he didn’t even intend to.

          Good job Seeker, you poked the stick in the ant bed for him!!! 🙂

      • I believe I’ve discovered something about Stanza 1. I am pretty sure it has a triple meaning. Perhaps in saying “I could” find the treasure without signs, etc he could be hinting at “I” in Stanza 1 of the poem could find it If my triple meaning of “I” is correct, then “I” in stanza 1 would fit FF answer to this question.

    • This, IMO, is answering the question without actually answering the question (which really amounts to not answering the question at all). Of course he could go back and get it. I’m sure the path to Indulgence is sketched in his mind. The question was ‘would it still be possible to solve the clues in the poem?’.

  77. Intriguing. Some very interesting scenarios for what the clues are evolves from this non-answer of an answer.

    • I like this. What is important to Fenn seems a valid argument. Hard to nail that down, obviously it’s more than Yellowstone. IMO it’s the general area.

    • Very interesting. But they missed the “word that is key” and it led to an error in their mapping. (IMO).

      They also don’t understand that “it’s not what is said, but what is whispered”. (IMO)

  78. Less than 24 hrs until the Vegas Meet Up
    May 4th is locked in.
    6:30 pm
    Island Flavor: 8090 S. Durango Dr. #103
    https://goo.gl/maps/tgEGeNpKH1U2
    This place has great food and good prices
    All Fenners welcome
    Meet, talk, have a great time.

  79. Seeker, this post is a gem! All this time I have believed that part or perhaps many of the geographical places described in his clues and hints which he said had existed when he was a kid, were man made, now I am not so sure!??

    What is truly amazing is this blog is so comprehensive and I never looked at it, it’s well organized and easy to follow. Good Find

    Tom T

  80. Don’t know where to post this but it is odd. Just now, while I was sitting in my truck gulping a really bad cup of coffee that actually tasted pretty good, a white fox snuck up on me. Ok it was really a coyote but at first glance I thought it was a white fox. Anyway here he comes from across the way and around the corner stalking me in my idling truck. I grabbed some pics, thanks buddy, looks like it’s going to be an animaliscious type day, IMO.

  81. Open letter to Erica Jorre owner of the blog site:

    https://bloggedinthewoods.wordpress.com/

    Erica Jorre, your late husband, Charles was his name, right, seems to have been well versed in the search and solve of ff’s poem, did he post on Dal’s blog? After viewing his notes and studies, it is obvious he was a very intelligent man, his methods were are a lot like what myself and many other dedicated treasure hunters are using and updating with recently discovered bits and pieces of knowledge.

    Even if you and the kids and grandkids never find the TC, even if someone else finds it using some info from your blog, you can be assured that your deceased husband’s there in spirit, I just wanta say THANKS and remember ” “We are all here for the pleasure of others. … “They never knew that it was the chase they sought and not the quarry”.

    Tom Terrific

    PS its just my name, not an arrogant statement, but I must say Terrific sounds a lot better than Tom Enthusiastic (treasure hunter)!

    I will soon do my 30th hunt, and thanks to info you are presenting I am heading a little further NORTH!

  82. When I have too much time and too little to do I like to think of solves that are more… I guess novelty than anything I actually thing would be worth pursuing seriously. I guess it is a way of considering the “what ifs” and a good way to keep a limber mind in any case.

    I noticed the poem does little in the way of telling us where to go but frequently tells us not to go, shouldn’t go or even if you look at it in a definitive or literal sort of way… don’t move at all.

    Also given some of our conversation yesterday I thought it would be a glorious prank of sorts if the answer to most of the clues was the same answer… an answer like “Calm down and wait”. After all it is about the journey, not the destination. Its called thrill of the chase not thrill of being rich.

    Thinking on that post Dal made about sitting in that hot spring and how funny it would be if this was all or even part of the solve.

    Begin it where warm waters halt.
    Ill take that to be a specific place with warm water such as a hot spring.

    Take it in the canyon down.
    Put you downward canyon (that is your butt) in the warm waters.

    Not far, but too far to walk.
    Don’t leave, its nice here… enjoy the stay and wait a while.

    Put in below the home of Brown.
    Brown trout live in water… its their home keep most of yourself submerged and again… go nowhere.

    From there its no place for the meek
    The rest of the world is fast-paced, loud and chaotic but for now you are at peace.

    The end is ever drawing nigh
    Unfortunately you will have to leave eventually.

    There will be no paddle up your creek.
    Again… don’t go anywhere just enjoy it.

    Just heavy loads and water high.
    Nothing here but you, your thoughts (heavy loads for some of us at least), your burdens and your weariness sitting nicely in deep and warm water.

    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze.
    Sitting there doing nothing but thinking and taking in the experience. If you are patient and perceptive (wise) you will eventually notice something out of place.

    Look quickly down.
    Under whatever is out of place there is a chest waiting for you.

    Anyway like I said. I don’t think its in any way the actual solve but when I see other people share things like this it sometimes knocks some ideas lose or undoes some of my presumptions.

      • That is about my feeling on it. Solve or not I’m too poor for a hot tub or even a decent sized soaking tub. It would almost be criminal to not attempt that low stress relaxing solve amidst all my others when I finally get a chance to be out and about.

  83. Lastnight while looking at arrowheads online I came across an email/blog post from Forrest, and it was titled, The mother of Indiana Jones (A collector strikes back).If this has been brought up before just ignore, as I can’t access 100% of this blog on my phone.Just a little window into how Forrest thinks.He’s such an awesome guy on so many levels.If you haven’t read it you should look for it and read it.

  84. Hey all. Can’t thank you enough for your kind words. We are home safe.I get another chance in the future. : ) It was so quiet in the wood and there were a billion stars ou
    Ps jake thanks I will get kedar licorce and tell him it’s from you.

      • Thanks pdenver! It was an amazing adventure through beautiful country. I forgot to tell you all……….
        This morning about an hour from home we thought we were stuck behind a drunk driver. Finally decided we should call police. The guy finally turned off and we hung up and kept going home. When I got home the phone rang…restricted number.? It was the police calling back to thank us, we found a lost old gentleman who had Alzheimers and was many, many, miles lost from home. His family was on their way to get him. That was a nice call to receive.

        • I knew you were a good person. Way to go KEDARS MOM. You didn’t find the TC but you did help someone else find their way back home.

          • Thanks Tim. : ) I’m sure his family is happy.
            On another note:
            Deb’s grand baby arrived today! It’s a girl. : )

            PS…In my rush to leave I forgot my orange hiking pole. If you end up where we did you will see it by the tree. Oh and I forgot to leave behind my little trove. Darn it, next time.

          • Kedars Mom
            Don’t worry about the pole, if by chance I see it, i’ll get it and send it to you but we’ll cross that bridge if I come to it…
            2nd – WOW!!! Talk about timing. You had a busy angel with you at your spot and your trip. Everything happens for a reason, sometimes we understand other times we don’t. Sounds like my last trip>LOL
            Wishing you all the best and I’ll wait to see you put something more together and try it again. 🙂

    • Glad you made it home safe KM.
      That’s the most important part of the trip right above having fun.
      I’m not sure you should tell Kedar it’s from me, he may not eat it or if you tell him after, he may just puke it up.
      If you did not search your area thoroughly, you should go back to rule it out.

      • Thanks Jake, it’s so nice to be home.
        I’d want to…. but it’s so difficult to get there at this point. I’m gonna keep working on it. Gonna call the state we were in about why there was a gate on county road.
        It does make one feel good to know you helped, I bet he would have been on the news next morning as missing. It worked out they way it was supposed to, we were in the right place at the right time.
        Kedar will love your treat! Guaranteed.

        • KM,
          I do believe some things happen for a reason & you did what you thought is right & was right. Some people just carry on, in there own little world not even thinking about what you did. You did the right thing & shows your character in a big way.

          • It’s what I like to call a Win – Win – Win situation KM. Pretty rare & special.
            I wish a lot more people would think & react that way in similar situations.
            There’s a treasure in there somewhere, and I know you know where it is.

          • @Jake – not so rare. It’s called a Nash equilibrium and it is what politicians and macro economists seek for just about every problem involving two or more interests. It is the model for predicting human behavior in almost all situations with multiple players, see Bruce Bueno de Mesquita. It is also my primary motivation for being transparent with all of my movements in the chase. Surprisingly (to me), the chase people on this blog do NOT behave in predictable patterns. There is definitely a white paper here.

            See my resume on LinkedIn if interested.

          • @Jake – yes, for KM, it was a judgment call to alert the police about a potential drunk driver. The story has a good ending. What you’ve described as a win-win-win in math is called an equilibrium.

          • Oh EC,
            I get it now.
            You threw another curve ball by me.
            My brother James emailed an interesting solve to me last night.
            He may join us on the blog if he didn’t work 12 hrs a day just about every day of the week.
            His solve puts us NNW of the Air force Academy in Colorado Springs. Don’t worry, it’s not in the Black Forrest. I know your transparent & like to share but it would not be fun or ethical to go to another searchers solve area.
            I need to check out all the basics before we go there, but looks pretty solid for now.
            Are you still around the Black Forrest area?

        • Gates in the Rockies even on county roads get closed because of snow, flooding, mud or rock slides, avalanches or the road for whatever reason is no longer there or they are simply private. There are a lot of land grant properties out this way as well.

  85. ALL information, whether it be a simple story or response to a question, from Forrest, is (IMO), valuable to any person serious about searching for his Treasure. We can all shoot holes in any theory about how it (shared info) relates to the poem or if it is even relevant…I personally think that every time he makes a peep it is one step closer to tuning in to what makes him tick. I frequent all of the sites he shares with just to get a little tidbit here and there. Somewhere along the way someone is going to make that important connection and cruise right on out to the honey hole. At this juncture, there are no stupid questions or theories, just a whole bunch of jumbled info that needs sorting. Ok, back to my sorting ….

  86. Regarding yesterdays post. on MW – here are a few thoughts:

    The definition of effigy = a roughly made model of a particular person, made in order to be damaged or destroyed as a protest or expression of anger.

    If I take out a few words I get a new definition of effigy = A roughly made model of (something) , made as a protest or expression of anger.

    Is Forrest angry about something?…Just a question.

    Is there a special meaning to the word “Repurposed” What has Forrest REPURPOSED?

    “Shaped into” I see as the same as “Repurposing” above

    “Digging” has me a bit confused. Would ff like to “Burn in effigy” those hundreds of searchers that insist that the TC is buried, and not hidden?

    “Shaped from broken…” Did Forrest have to shape something”? If so, What?

    “I picture many in my book…” what illustrations or pictures is he referring to?
    … other than the ones about San Lazaro?

    A lot of questions. Any comments from anyone?

    Good luck to all searchers and STAY SAFE

    JD

    • JD,
      Forrests book about San Lazaro Pueblo has nothing to do with the Chase. He’s simply talking about pot-sherds and pictures in that book. Good book, by the way, if you are interested in early pueblo culture.

      • I agree that the book has nothing to do with the chase, but can we be assured that any comments made by Forrest are NOT associated with the chase. I think that that is a fair question.

        Just my opinion.

        Looking some the past weekly posts, they “appeared” to have nothing to do with the chase, yet they were posted by Jennie on a portion of her blog site dedicated to Forrest’s comments about the chase.

        Many people commented on their relevance, despite the “appearance” that they had nothing to do with the chase.

        Just an observation.

        We each can decide for ourselves what it related to the chase or relevant and what is hot..

        The above comments by you appear as stated fact – NOT your opinion.

        Again, just my opinion.

        When I posted my original post, I asked for comments, and I appreciate your having expressed “Your Opinion”

        Good luck to all searchers and STAY SAFE.

        JD

        • JD,
          I stand by what I said as reasonably factual.

          If you want to see clues in everything Forrest says that’s your privilege. However your post sounded to me like you had know idea what San Lazaro was about and seeings how you appear to be new here I thought I was helping you out.

          But here’s an opinion….I think you’re stepping outside your bounds as a poster and trying to act like it’s your job to police this blog. I’m a little tired of your disapproving remarks to other searchers. Let’s leave that up to Dal and Goofy to keep things on the level.

          • 1) I do not see clues in everything. There are only nine, and they are in the poem. HINTS – maybe

            2) I am quite familiar with San Lazaro, thank you

            3) I may be somewhat new, but what does that prove? Does it make me stupid? I think not!

            4) If I am stepping out of bounds by commenting on my impression that something appears to be stated as fact, and not an opinion, I am sure that Dal and/or Goofy will caution me, and such has not yet happened. But Thank You for the advice.

            As always, Good luck to all searchers, and – STAY SAFE

        • whorls
          1. a pattern of spirals or concentric circles.

          A day or two ago a girl, I forgot who, was talking about spirals.

        • Hi JD – I like your insight and I think it is wise to look for hints in everything Fenn says or posts. The word shape, in particular, strikes me as very peculiar in this answer. It just doesn’t sound right to me. Why didn’t he use the word made or formed? Not to mention there is a blaze in the poem and we are talking about burning something here. And of course how can anyone ignore the word digging in the midst of a treasure hunt? (Although if he was instructing us to dig a hole I think he’d be a little more sly about the way he conveyed it.)

          I always like your posts, JD, and that is my opinion.

          • I did not dig…I diggins!
            Actually I was a bit capital, quite hot, tired and my knee hurt so I sat in the pit and just shook my head in dismay as my requests and suggestions were ignored by other searchers.
            Such beautiful lithics and geography should have been recognized and respected. Greed will get you nowhere.
            Enjoying nature and learning, now THAT is what thrills me.
            Its all I can do to not tear up just to think of some folks ignorance…

            I wish Iron Eyes Cody were here to go with me! 🙂

          • I agree with JD. This is a blog to share thoughts and ideas. Until the chase is over we are ALL WRONG. PERIOD. So JD, rock on brother, rock on.

      • Colokid;

        Do you know the context relating to the question and answer?

        Is an excerpt from the San Lazaro book?

        If it is, I may be off base. If not, it would be nice to know what the setting was when the question was asked, and when Forrest answered the question.

        Thanks for any input that you may have.

        JD

        • JD,
          It is not unusual for Jennie to post “non-chase” questions and answers in the “Featured questions with Fenn” section as this one was. These comments are not confined to Fridays like “Weekly Words from Fenn”. You can review her archives to verify this.

          The question and answer are directly related to material in the book. Reference pages 237 and 242. The plate on pg 242 is what Jennie used in her post and is relevant.

          My copy of “Secrets…” is copyrighted in 2004. Obviously this pre-dates the Chase by at least 4 years. Why would we suspect a connection? IMO this is a very innocent Q&A that has no bearing on the Chase. Your results may very.

    • What I found odd JD, is the timing & it was not your typical Weekly Words but an email not seen on a Friday. Why Tuesday?
      The red flag went up right away.
      I’m not sure I would remove any words from the def of effigy.
      Maybe the vessels were shattered by the inhabitants in protest of disagreements.
      I wonder how many were found intact.
      I can’t seem to find a connection here except for the fact of timing & the meaning of the word. Maybe he is angry at few hundred people. He’ll get over it until the next angry Weekly Words come along.
      My whorl will stop spinning soon.

        • JD,
          About the Pottery Shards post over on MW…
          Since ff brought up “human effigy,” I was thinking it may have something to do with seannm’s recent post (The Thrill is Gone) over on Chasechat. He set fire/burned his TOTC book and posted several pictures. There’s one picture of his hand holding a lighter right beneath Forrest’s name on the cover of the book. Have you seen these? Could this possibly represent “burn in effigy” in a round-about way? IDK, just something that came into my mind. That may also explain why the odd appearance on Tuesday.

          • Thanks WiseOne,
            I just checked that effigy out & does have a burning similarity.
            I can still feel the heat from the flames.
            Maybe he should have just burned his solve.

          • Yes he did Wise an you may be right….ff effigy effort or efor ft 🙂 but it only says you get title to the gold………:) Confirmation to Seannm that the blaze is FF initials? They are @ the end of every chapter in TFTW

          • Strange – strange. Wonder what is up with Sean? – Could be a connection???

            This is the only site I frequent, so this is all new news to me. Thanks for the heads-up.

          • I certainly can see the importance of the word effigy in the poem. I feel certain (IMO) that I have discovered the key word, quite by accident. This word is not one I would have thought was a key word, but it sure helps me see how the rest of the poem fits together. It makes it understandable and helps me see things clearly. Whether FF meant to drop a hint by using the word effigy, is anyone’s guess. But, what I believe I know about the poem, the word effigy definitely fits very appropriately.

          • WiseOne. Indeed,

            “How do you thank guys like that?” Page numbers 92 and 93, (although not listed, are most relevant.)

            I believe that the “big picture” truly does paint a thousand words, and will identify and ultimately resolve…. Forrest Fenn’s* “The Thrill of the Chase”

            SL

          • WiseOne,

            You asked: “Could this possibly represent burn in effigy In a round-about way?”

            No doubt in my mind. ( I would offer a link that possibly tells a rather remarkable story, but it might be best not to do so at this time. )

            ?

            SL

    • JD – you asked for comments regarding ff’s post on MW. My initial thought was to review pages 42, 242, plate numbers, and the important Effigy contained in the Natural History Museum from San Lazaro which indeed yield important information connected to “not far but too far” to walk, and perhaps the most important archeological discovery in Forrest’s excavations. Perhaps the poem contains information leading to his San Lazaro. It certainly contains a reference to effigy.

      Personally, I believe most interpret his statements incorrectly or without truly thinking about the words contained in his statements. Few realize his brilliance or craftiness. Forrest has fun with his words knowing his meanings are usually different than our interpretations; thus allowing him to tell a portion of the truth, but not all of it. His treasure remains his treasure, and we remain confused by his leadings.

      For the sake of argument, let’s review his media statement regarding the treasure being 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe. Go back and listen. (Paraphrased) ff states, he said that ‘because’ he didn’t want searchers digging in his yard or his neighbors yard. He never said the treasure chest isn’t in his yard. He simply stated he said it so that searchers weren’t digging up his neighbors yard. Regarding north of Santa Fe… No clarification (that I can find) states the city of Santa Fe. In truth ff may be indicating the southern boundary of Santa Fe County which leaves his yard in the search area.

      • I certainly agree with your statement that “Few realize his brilliance or craftiness. Forrest has fun with his words knowing his meanings are usually different than our interpretations; thus allowing him to tell a portion of the truth, but not all of it”

        I just found one of those “Hidden Meaning” words tonight.

        That makes it # ???? almost too many to count.

        Isn’t it fun? Isn’t it THRILLING?

        Forrest has said, ““We are all here only for the pleasure of others…” What a wonderful philosophy to live by.

        His “Thrill” is in bringing each of us pleasure…Pleasure
        in figuring out his beautiful poem (puzzle)

        Happy hunting.

        Good luck to all searchers, and STAY SAFE

        JD

    • He certainly did. We all can relate to that feeling. some take it harder than others.
      Another thing I was thinking is that if forrest specifically chose the question about re-purposing shards of pottery, bowls, etc., he could have been hinting to seannm, to reuse/re-purpose some of the better pieces of his failed solve to create a new one. Maybe he had some of the clues correct… Just a thought.

    • I take it that Sean is a poster who discontinued the chase?

      Can you elaborate? Point me to what’s going on here. Sorry I don’t check in every day, here.

      • Ken, It’s nothing really. You’d have to over to ChaseChat, and read/see the thread called “The Thrill is Gone.” There are pictures of a disgruntled searcher setting fire to his TTOTC book. After I saw that, I then read the Mysterious Writings Q/A post “Pottery Shards.” Forrest mentions “human effigies”. Anyway, I thought there could be a connection or a hint/message to that searcher. You can check it out if you want and draw your own conclusion.
        I just thought there might be a connection between the two… “human effigy… “burn in effigy”… especially to one picture of Seannm holding a lighter next to ff’s name on the cover of his memoir (TTOTC) and watched it burn.
        Sometimes I think I have TOO much imagination. ;(

  87. I came across an interesting Podcast tonight by Irene Rawlings. (Dal/Goofy, I do not think this one is on the media coverage page)

    https://player.fm/series/kbco-fm-podcast/forrest-fenn

    Irene did the Podcast in November 2010 right after the TTOTC was released. She reads “Looking for Lewis and Clark” from TTOTC, which makes up most of the Podcast. Before reading this chapter, she makes an interesting comment.

    “I got reacquainted with Forrest a few years ago, and then, when I was down in Santa Fe in July of 2010… we had lunch together and he said he’d hidden a treasure box, a box full of gold, and was just finishing up a book with clues on how to find it.”

    For those who have tried to narrow down the timeframe when f hid the chest, Irene gives us a date that it was before her lunch with f in July 2010. If my math is correct, that puts him at 79 years old when he hid the chest, considering f said he hid it when he was either 79 or 80.

    What I also find interesting is that f tapped her to help with the media relations with the release of TTOTC (https://www.oldsantafetradingco.com/assets/book-previews/thrill-of-the-chase.pdf). She lives in the Denver, CO area and this Podcast was with KBCO-FM, a radio station centered in Boulder, CO (a community that has no lack of money – just the kind of clientele f likes when selling something). I will venture to say that f had intentions from the get-go to push this to a much bigger audience / market that was well outside of Santa Fe and the locals there.

    • JCM-
      Your guess about him being 79 makes sense to me..
      There is also the evidence that the book came out in September of 2010 and his 80th birthday was in August..and he claimed at the first book signing in October that the chest was already hidden…so it’s quite likely that he hid it before his 80th birthday..and what you found certainly appears to verify that belief…

      • The other end of when f hid the chest to consider is from Important Literature in TTOTC. We have JD Salinger’s death and f reading his book, Catcher in the Rye, that set f into motion to write his book and get it published. JD died Jan 27, 2010, so the likelihood that f hid the chest before that would be pretty low.

        If f had hid it in the fall of 2009, he would have risked Peggy noticing the chest was missing over the long winter months, and I don’t think he would have taken that risk (he would have had some explaining to do). So I would put f hiding the chest somewhere between April to early July in 2010; f has inferred to wait until summer to go search, so perhaps the mostly likely time being somewhere from mid-May to the end of June, about a six week window.

        • Wouldn’t the 18 months [if I recall correctly] window also apply here, for fenn tell his wife he hid the chest?
          Should it be the first public notice was July 2010… is it safe to assume there’s another 18 months to be considered?

          • Seeker – I believe f has also said his wife doesn’t know within 6 weeks of when he hid it; I would have to go find the reference which I can’t look up at the moment in my notes.

          • JCM,

            I can’t recall the exact length of time either… Yet, if you’re trying to narrow down a time line, I would think his wife would have been the first person told. That way there would be no shock n awe when it was made public or told to another for the first time.

            Unless time of year is important to a solve… does it matter when he did hid it? The opportunity to do it, could have presented itself at anytime of year, if he didn’t have a solid, one time plan, prearranged to execute hiding the chest.

            But lets face it… I’m sure [ at the very least ] Mrs. Fenn knew of the idea of this challenge long before the book release. So when the chest was actually taken from home to the hide, I don’t think she would have thought twice about it.

            If 18 months is accurate… and using July 2010, that could place the hide as soon as Jan 09. Maybe even 08.

          • The other factor for the time frame when f may have hid it is that he said he was 79 or 80 when he hid it. He would have turned 79 on Aug 22, 2009, and to be 79 when he hid it puts it between his birthday in Aug 2009 and July of 2010. f didn’t begin in earnest to write his book until Jan/Feb 2010.

            f has mentioned in an interview (I don’t remember which) something to the fact that when he was putting together TTOTC, he was getting pictures of Peggy to include in the book and trying to do so without her knowing what he was up to. This would have likely been between Feb 2010 (when he began in earnest to put TTOTC together) and probably July or Aug of 2010 when he would have finished the book and had it ready for printing.

            Keeping the whole thing a secret from Peggy for as long as possible would have been a top priority for f, I think. If she knew when the chest left the house, she would more likely know a general area that he may have hidden it, and f’s plan was to not give anyone any advantages.

            Much of this is just theorizing and thinking about how f would have taken steps and thought of everything to ensure no one had any knowledge or understanding of where the chests’ location might potentially be, including Peggy.

            As far as timing to when f hid the chest, I think it can be very helpful to know a window of time as there are a lot of roads/areas that are inaccessible and not open to public access during certain times of the year throughout the Rocky Mountains. I believe Kedar’s Mom just ran into this situation this past week (spring melt and dirt roads – mud – are a lot of fun, but not good for the roads later when they dry out). If f hid the chest in March, that would automatic rule out a lot of area that isn’t accessible during that time of the year; I think f was a little wiser than that.

            As an example, there is a place that I like to go hiking that is amazing, but I have to wait until mid-late July to go. If I don’t, there is still too much snow and the area is inaccessible. If there is a high probability that f hid it in May or June, this can impact my decisions about where I may consider looking for the chest.

            This is mostly just analyzing and the fine tuning of solutions for me, not basic ideas and general approaches to the poem and how to solve it. 🙂

        • Nice detective work JCM.
          I have been a little unsure if going in June would be a washout.
          Now I am more confident about spring.
          Thanks.

        • Hello JCM. Interesting discussion. It’s possible he may have waited and hid the treasure in the months for which you state. I recall there was an 18-month period where Mrs. Fenn didn’t know when the treasure was hidden. It was covered at home, and if I recall correctly, it was discovered missing by Mrs. Fenn. I would believe “waiting until summer” might be just a safety issue to consider; seasonal roads open, snow is mostly gone, etc.. I believe beginning from this point to just before the first snowfall will be our “Search Season” so to speak. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

          • JMC –

            Great sleuthing on your part. I think you are so right on the money.

            There is one thing I want to add…..when you find the “other” reason that he had to get the treasure hidden in a hurry….then I feel you will be in very close proximity to the exact spot.

          • Hello inthechaseto. You make an interesting point. Thinking of your words makes me think of one my searches and where I erred.

          • Inthechaseto – I have other very speculative info from long ago that gets me down to a possible week when f might have hid it. But it is significant to my search area, very debatable, and easy to shoot down, so I won’t be sharing it.

            I stick mostly to the trunk of the tree, but it is always fun to go out and play on the tips of the branches occasionally, if you know what I mean.

    • Irene’s reading is good for people just starting out and those who have been in the Chase for a few years. Funny part about the coffee made by boiling pine needles.

  88. Seeker,

    Could Russell Osborne follow this poem?
    I have been thinking about that and it does seem logical BUT, is that what ff wants? Only for someone like Russell or he/who acquires that kind of knowledge to find it? Personally I don’t think that is the case.
    The Continental Divide is a real possibility but is over a thousand miles long like you said and that is my point it qualifies as a ‘clue’ but no identity to what or where. WWH to a Hot Spring stream of water qualifies as a ‘clue’ but it doesn’t identify which/what/where and you can say the same thing for everything else in stanzas 2 and 3. Of course I know ff was not going to be so obvious and is a matter of interpretation.

    Using WWH, as we know halts has different meanings and I ask myself this question, which meaning of the word ‘halt’ will positively identify a ‘warm water’ (water flow, concept, etc.) to a geographical feature unique to the Rockies between SF and Canada? Is there such thing as a hot spring where the water comes out of the ground and then goes back into it again effectively halting it and is the only one found in this side of the Rockies? I have not found one that is strangely singular.

    Using the step to step-location to location see my example, I know is a silly one: “Between the deepest canyon and the highest geyser find the formation that resembles an omega and inside of it look where the stream halts”. Because I have ‘deepest canyon’ I can quickly go for the topo map and it will take me to Hells Canyon in the Snake River which marks the border between Oregon and Idaho. Qualifies and identified. Let’s now say that the highest geyser is ‘Old Faithful’. I don’t know if that is the highest but it qualifies. If I don’t find an omega in between them then I move to another using the qualifiers for ‘highest’. I will do the same thing for the ones that have streams inside until I find the ones that halt and then I know where to search. If I didn’t have the ‘deepest’ I had nothing and I can forget about the rest. That starting point is crucial and I can achieve this without having labels only using the topo and whitewater maps.

    You said: Is the blaze that the poem refers to the CD itself?
    FF hints regarding the blaze are mysterious. He said not to go looking for that one first, he also said it does not face a radial direction. To the question if it is a physical object he answered: “in a word, yes.” And there is a subtle hint to the fact that it will not appeared until you solve the first few stanzas. So imo there is no blaze until the first few clues are solved and then I will know what that is; that is when the poem becomes more than directional clues and I get puzzled.

    • oz – if I may put in my 2 cents – I think the blaze is at the end where you take the chest and go in peace – your efforts will be worth the cold – if you are brave and in the wood – ill give you title to the gold – to me ill give you title to the gold means that’s where its at or that’s where youll find it jmo

      • ‘Take the chest and go in peace’ may not refer to ff gold but yours. Once you solve the clues, those are your treasures and that is your chest and you need to take that with you so you can find his gold. ‘But listen good’

    • Some good thoughts OZ. But are you attempting to work around the Omega which is found only in the book? If there is a collaboration in the poem, that’s fine… [ no need to say what it is, just that you see one ]. That would be a major clue if the omega was needed for the solve, and seems the poem could not be solved without it.

      I do like your halt concept, so I’ll leave that be.

      But now the CD as to being many miles long and a feature unique to the Rockies “between Canada and SF”? I could argue two points to this… The CD is a very unique feature of the Rockies because it’s geographical location and the affect on drainage as well as weather patterns across a continent. Also the tip of the watershed that drains to three oceans, leaving behind the lakes, streams, river etc. one of the direct cause for all those bodies and waterways. and ask, why do you eliminate Canada area as to a clue? or a part of one.

      Like I said before, I see why a step by step method sees this as a non-clue because it doesn’t give a precise location to stomp, hence a possible fault to the step by step method, as it forces the reader to conclude that only smaller location are a must.
      I would add that this relates to the possibility of the big picture comment.

      The other aspect of a step by step is attempting to fit whatever amount of location to match what is to be believed as a clue. Where I think that can also add to the reader to force fit a place / location having to match 9 specific clue locations… I won’t go into the debate of how many clues are used to come up with an answer… yet you see by my previous post, my thoughts are 2 or more clues can refer to a place. or even 9 sentences containing many hints/ clue to comprise 9 point of information needed to be understood.

      “FF hints regarding the blaze are mysterious. He said not to go looking for that one first, he also said it does not face a radial direction.” I agree, looking for the blaze first will not solve the poem… The non-human trail [ poetically] is understood after it is understood we needed to know that the entire range come into effect, why it is needed to be know and where does waters connect to it… a non stomping explanation that leads a point… until you’re in the correct location near the chest. In this theory it covers the range and reasons to a point north[wards] of SF. and as to the radical direction… only true N. S. E. and W. were give as choices.

      Dang, this was easier to explain when the chase was younger… now it seems we need to write novels to get our points across as time goes on…lol
      I still like your halt line of thinking… something to truly ponder on.

      • Omega! hey, am I not allowed to wear the aluminum paper hat once in a while? lol…

        Maybe it was confirmation bias but I was trying to figure out alternate meanings for ‘look quickly down and marvel gaze’ and the word ‘focus’ came about. Well, it just happens that focus is also found in graphs and here you go, happy Cinco de Mayo.

        http://hotmath.com/hotmath_help/topics/focus-of-a-parabola.html

      • Hi Seeker — while the Continental Divide is a huge feature, and at a casual glance might be seen as useless in constraining the search area, as a candidate clue it would actually constrain the starting point by more than a factor of 1000 since it in essence reduces a two-dimensional problem (area) into a one-dimensional problem (a line, or rather a path). All you need is a second line intersecting that feature and with two clues you’ve got a starting point. That’s certainly not a bad solution to looking at the “Big Picture” as a means to single out a specific place.

        • Zap,

          Another searcher mentioned using warm as the Gulf. If we take that one step further and we can see a cycle at work; warm oceans, evaporation, rain, snow/ice/glaciers, watershed, streams, creeks, canyon, lakes, rivers and back… As I have gone alone in there… I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak.

          I also consider that the RM’s were created and will eventually be its end with the same process.
          Sure this is an abstract line of thinking… but fill in the blanks and one can see the poem leads to a specific point. While I don’t agree the KiSS method is correct, this is not a hard concept to understand, just not one in plain-view. While I don’t subscribe to the everything-kitchen sink method, needing to know languages, history, music, codes fenn talk and every person fenn ever knew…the entire poem is used here. I’m not a fan of the step by step method as it seems to force fit not only what a clue may be, but how clues are decipher individually, parting the poem in pieces.

          I’m looking for a theory that says to me… “what took me so long”… that enforces the poem as a whole. So yes, when looking for the ” second line intersecting that feature and with two clues you’ve got a starting point.” I have to ask the same old same old… how many clues gives an answer?

          • How many clues give an answer? I was really stuck in this question when I started the chase mostly because I thought a lot of clues could be found on one river but if the river is one clue how could other clues be part of that clue, almost like many clues are all belong to one clue. That idea could still be true. I still think some clues are much more complex than others.

          • seeker –

            ff has said that whoever finds the chest will wonder in retrospect what took them so long. That implies something simple imo.

            you just need to figure out where to start. all of the clues that i see point to one starting place.

            the most difficult thing i have found is figuring out what the blaze is or how to get to the chest after finding it.

            i think I have an idea about what it is but I haven’t had a lot of success figuring out where the chest is from there.

  89. oz imo – to find wwwh – begin it wwwh and take it in the canyon down not far but to far to walk – what im looking for is a canyon with water and a road ( cause its to far to walk ) jmo

  90. is there anyone out there that believes they have the last 6 or 7 clues figured out…but not the first two?

    • David,
      If someone did state that they figured out the last 6 or 7 clues without figuring out 1 & 2, I think they would be doomed to failure.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_fPF8Gc1I8
      How To Find Fenn’s Million-Dollar Treasure. Sept 8 2015
      “I think the problem that searchers make is they don’t dwell long enough on the first clue. If you can’t find the first clue, you don’t have anything.”

    • i’m as delusional as the next. i have nine- not claiming i know where the chest is, not saying/claiming i solved it… – just saying i have 9 clues.

  91. You are in the mountains and:
    – you have a car
    – you want to go from point a to point b
    – there is a road that can take you from point a to point b.

    What is the maximum distance you would consider near enough that you would walk it rather than drive it? .5 mile, 1 mile, 2 miles, etc?

    Yes, this is a test to see how lazy everyone is! 🙂

      • Hi pdenver – It is not really a test nor a trick question, just a question to see what people think and are willing to walk.

        I would say my max distance would be 2 miles, if the scenery was pretty enough; beyond that, I would jump in my car and drive it.

    • Since we might have to make 2 trips and the treasure is heavy and probably hard to carry I am going to be super lazy and say .5 miles…:)

      Maybe we are supposed to “BeLAZE” 😀

      • Hello Spallies. Cute. Would Mr. Fenn make it that easy for everyone? I can imagine him reading this and shaking his head “no”. 🙂 Please let it be within a half mile distance! 🙂

        • Actually, from my parking lot to “the Spot” = just over 1/2 mile. If the ice is all melted, maybe on the 14th we will all know who is correct. 🙂

          Stay Safe All

          JD

        • Probably not PDenver… But I kinda imagine Forrest shaking his head “yes” and “no” at the same time 🙂

      • I would walk 500 miles and I would walk 500 more. Just to be the man that walked 1000 miles with the TC and fall down at Fenns door

      • We backpack. Hubby and the kids and I have a favorite trail in Yosemite. It’s almost straight up and 17 miles each way..totally worth every step carrying a heavy pack.

    • If there is a road I drive. I drive to get the mail at the end of the driveway (although it is 1000 feet and on a hill). I walk all day as a mailman. I walk to hunt because otherwise you will not see 1/2 the stuff even at 2mph. I walk to get places there are no roads, otherwise I drive. I will park a mile away to save a few bucks but that is a different story.

    • JCM,
      If you would have stated:
      – you NEED to go from point a to point b
      Then I would have a need to answer.
      I need to go there.
      I guess it depends upon what you can do & experience along the way by walking as opposed to driving if you will.

    • I think I’ve walked/hiked an approximate 99 miles, and rode shotgun another 24,000 miles, and let’s hours? Hmmmm…hours into the poem and research, et al, ohhh bout minimum 4 to five hours daily for 26 months so…
      Just scant a mile of hours! And, it’s been the most alive I ever felt! 🙂

      • Hello Jdiggins. I know what you mean. My computer chair has a permanent imprint on it from all the studying I’ve done over the past 1 1/2 years. 🙂

      • Jdiggins,
        I think your underestimating yourself except for most alive.
        These are your words. Are they not? Either way I love them.

        A dreamer believes
        A quiter he grieves
        and so tells his tales of woe.
        But he who achieves
        what his dreaming conceives
        Has no limit to where he may go.

        Had to post them again.

    • Roads are to be driven, I’d prefer not to walk along a road. Once I got stuck in the snow and had to 3 miles to get to where I was going does that count? The longest I’ve walk to point a to point b is about 15 miles and probably about 25 in one day.

  92. jcm imo from where I live in southern nm I would have to drive all the way to point b – to where he parked his car and walk less then a quarter mile to the chest – note that I would have to walk

    • frank – is there a distance you would consider walking instead of driving if it wasn’t too far? 🙂

      • jcm – I would rather drive up to where the chests is and then I would park my car to where the chest would be on the passenger side and let him or her pick it up and put it in the car

        • If anyone plans on driving right up to the chest and pick it up…they will need a jacked up 4×4 with monster mudders.

          IMO of course.

  93. Following a hint: Does anybody know if Forrest ever been in Africa and/or Alaska in his travels?

    • Hello Oz10. I may be wrong, but I think he’s been to Alaska on a fishing trip(s). Perhaps others may be able to answer with certainty.

    • Oz10-
      Forrest tells this story over on Jenny’s site:
      “In the Saharan desert of Libya I discovered thousands of war relics left over from the tank battles of WW-II: burned out tanks and shell casings were everywhere. And in close proximity were stone projectiles and crudely made hand axes that could have been 30,000 years old. I was looking at conflicts piled on top of conflicts. Who can imagine how many…”

      There is a photo of Forrest in one of his scrapbooks on this blog that shows him landing a large, colorful fish. I believe that was taken in Alaska…but that is only my opinion…

      • Hey Dal, you want to hear something weird? I came across this last night based on the question that another searcher posted about how far someone will be willing to walk, that same question that has been pondered for years. I thought, Forrest has told us don’t go where an 80-year-old man can’t go and the key there is the age.

        Theoretically the older we get the less we travel, not just walking but we are also less prone to take long car trips or fly to distant places. He has been around earth maybe more than a couple of times in his younger years if you add his flight hours but again as we grow older the closer to home the better. Does that mean that the treasure chest is closer to Santa Fe than what some think? Based on the age factor the probability is higher.

        So, I wondered if he left us a measure of distance in the poem and of course we know ‘Not far, but too far to walk’ is the one but how far varies from person to person and age. Did he hinted ‘where the 80-year-old can’t go’ in the poem? When do you know is too far to walk? when you get tired and what happens when you get tired, you have to rest.

        Not far but FOR + too far to walk=REST equals FORREST. I think I found his signature in the poem. It is so funny and silly that is scary. I’m going for a rest now.

        • morning Oz
          I want to go with your thought but now that I’m retired I have found that most of the older people feel like it is time to travel now or it will turn into never. That saying “Not to far” doesn’t really have a limit. At 62 I walk everyday and found that I can reach for a further goal as long as I walk steady and stop and rest ( or take a break) and then walk some more. The thing is at our age we have to be reasonable because what ever you walk to you will have to walk back. Has FF ever had hip or knee replacement done? That will also limit how far someone can walk.IMO

          • Timothy, you are right about that and no I didn’t mean all, but you made a good point about being reasonable and careful. I’m sure ff was also careful knowing he had to go in and then back out.

      • *The book is scarce. I’ve been unable to even locate a review of it to in order to find out what Forrest’s part in it actually was.

        * Weekly Words is now available over on Jenny Kile’s Mysterious Writings site. ( I found the accompanied photo of a lion in the bush rather interesting ).

        I’ve often wondered if it was actually a Lion he had killed in Yellowstone Park during his youth.

        SL

        • Hello SL, I bought my copy of that book from Forrests webpage
          oldsantafe trading post, The African Animals of W.R. Leigh by Forrest Fenn. It is a beautiful book and the goatskin is so soft, you will love this book, buy it directly from Forrest brand new and no middle man.

          • Sally it’s listed as “sold” on the old Santa Fe trading co web site. Not sure it is still available outside of the middleman route?

      • Thanks for that info SL. I didn’t even know about that one. I am looking for references to the land but animals may bring me some insights too. I can’t find even an excerpt yet but I will keep searching.

      • Books are my thing…

        This looks like an exhibition catalog for a show at his gallery- 32 pages, 27 cm tall.

        Five libraries in Worldcat apparently own it (not sure why it says Microform, I don’t think this is right).
        https://www.worldcat.org/title/african-animals-of-wr-leigh/oclc/8355266&referer=brief_results

        Two booksellers on Abebooks are selling expensive, leather-bound copies. Both include nice pictures of their copies.
        http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=african+animals+leigh

        Bookman

  94. Well happy Cinco de sies to me! Oh..wait..no, that’s not right..happy Mayo de sies! 🙂
    Jake, that was very sweet of you to share that. Thus far, considered my “premier” poem. One of my first- many, many moons past. Also, my favorite.
    Sometimes tho, it’s hard to do…to believe. But I’ve come this far…:-)

    And.. pdenver, strawshadow, alopes…
    Thanks to you too! 🙂

    Good morning all!
    Have a hap hap happy day!
    🙂 🙂 🙂

    • Good morning, Jdiggins. It was a great premier poem. Have a wonderful sies de Mayo!

    • There’s only one poem I like better than yours & I can’t quite tell what it means yet. I will give it one more shot. The Road Not Taken will lead us there.

  95. I found this chart on how long it takes to walk a mile, based on age and health.
    http://www.walkwithremar.com/Conch%20one-mile%20test.htm

    According to this, a male, aged 70+, in excellent health, would walk a mile in 15:06.
    But that’s on a flat surface.
    So I’m guessing that Forest might walk a mile in rough terrain in about 30 minutes.

    If that’s a good average, making two trips to the TC in one afternoon, lets consider for a moment.
    An afternoon would be from noon to sunset, or dinnertime. Let’s say it’s 6:00 pm, since we really don’t know what Forest meant by it.

    So, in 6 hours (noon to 6:00pm), at a rate of 1 mile in 30 minutes, Forest might walk 12 miles total.

    And divide that by the two trips, and you get 6 miles.
    That’s both ways, so divide it by 2 again to get a range of:
    ….
    ….3 miles from car to TC.

    But that’s a very rough figure.

    Also, do we know if that comment meant that Forest walked the whole Map path? Or did Forest possibly park his car on the other side of the TC (from the starting point) and walk a closer distance to get to the hidden location?

    • He also said it’s not on a human trail, but I suppose part or most of the journey could be on one. If none of the journey was on a trail sometimes it’s hard to go a mile. No trail means nobody goes there. A friend of mine who collects elk antler sheds told me of a great place he found right off the interstate highway in Wyoming. Just a short walk into a small south facing bowl and there were so many sheds dating from current to years and years ago. Obviously nobody goes in there ever or they would have easily seen these valuable sheds (they go for $15 a pound or more).

      • I didn’t know that about elk antlers. I looked it up and see they are sold as dog chews, decor, jewelry, etc.
        Ebay has some nice ones for $hundreds.

        How much do they weigh, for an average pair?

        So a person might get lucky and pay for their trip?

        All new to me, being from Ohio and not being a deer hunter, nor interested in the decor/art style. At least not to date. If I found a really cool set I might just hang them above my fireplace as a momento.

        Anything else that a person might be able to sell or desire as a keepsake, decor? Unusual rocks?

  96. So much like many before me I have a few solves that lead me to Yellowstone. I know dal and many others have searched the area with the finest tooth comb they have. If I am going to be nearby I want to try something new. If indeed more than several searchers have been within 200 feet of the tc I see no harm in taking a few more cracks at the most dead horse in the entire thrill of the chase while I’m in the area looking for fresher solves.

    Can anyone confirm where exactly has been checked already? Did we walk both banks of the madison and firehole rivers all the way? How far did you stray from the banks. Were some areas impassible? Did we walk in the water the entire time? I’ve been rummaging through notes but Dal has made what… like 100 trips now? Its a lot to go through.

    I’m really behind on the game and if anyone is feeling sporting enough to catch me up on what didn’t work it would be much appreciated.

    On a related note: An idea that I am well aware is outside of my current technical expertise but I know is not impossible. Anyone know of a way we could do some sort of shared map where people could dump their searches (presumably when they are done with them) Highlight or leave markers of where they went and notes on why. Many of us (myself included) are not only visual sorts of people but it would be an easy way for us to coordinate, critique and work together (why I assume many of us are here). Best of all credit where credit is due. I feel like if I were to find the tc I would owe some people here at the very least a nod if not a share for helping me see things properly or building off their ideas, but there is really no way someone like me would remember who said what and went where.

    • I agree Dys- a map with indicators of what has been searched would be very helpful. But I see legal issues with it. If you or I make a small tweak in the solve and then we find the chest, then a legal battle might result over who has rights to the TC. Maybe someone has a solution???

        • There doesn’t have to be legal issues. Wouldn’t be with me. But some people might argue that their info led to a solve and it could tie up the treasure in the courts for years.. But I know you freely share info EC, and I do too. You just never know what people will do with finances involved. That is all I was saying.

      • I’m with EC on this one… that implies any said on any blog is open for a suit… ‘Mr. Judge, I mentioned WWWH was a hot spring, I deserve a cut of the booty…’

        But Hey… some idiot filed a law suit for 5 mil. against a coffee shop because they put to much ‘Ice’ in an ‘Ice coffee’. years back a woman filed a suit because she burned her leg while driving and had a hot coffee between them… claimed the hot coffee was too hot, and received 2.5 mil.

        Oh wait, silly me… fenn thought of everything. We’re in the clear.

        • Yes Seeker- that is what I’m talking about. Anything I share is free for anyone to use.

      • It’s only a problem for you if I change my name to
        Buckeye Bob™.

        Then lookout!

      • I don’t see it as much different from writing it out in a comment. You volunteer information in a public space it isn’t exactly trade marked or anything. But things of that nature aside it’s easily handled with a terms of use for the hypothetical map.

    • Dys-
      As you pointed out, we know that some have been within 200ft of Indulgence but did’t find it. So it seems to me it would be unwise to not look somewhere just because it’s already been searched.

      This has been my argument against making a map of areas searched. It would indicate to some that there is no sense looking in those areas when in fact, that just isn’t true.

      Additionally, some of the areas that folks search have nothing to do with following the clues in the poem. Some searchers just head out to an area completely disregarding “starting at the beginning” and following the clues until they are in a logical place where the chest might be,

      I assume folks have looked in every place I have been. Myself and others have written often about our searches but that certainly does not mean the treasure isn’t there…it just means we did’t find it.

      What I think makes more sense is a list of possible places that could be WWWH…then folks could start at a beginning and follow the clues to where they lead…using their own logic…

      It does not matter whether an area has been searched before..it matters only that when you follow the nine clues to the end…you search thoroughly…I might miss it…you might see it…
      Particularly since we don’t even know what we are looking for in the way of a hidey spot…

      • Actually…since the area where Indulgence could be hidden is so large..it probably makes more sense to look in areas that have already been searched since we KNOW that some have been within 200ft of it. There is probably less area that has already been searched than areas that have not been searched…so your odds of being in the right place might be better if you keep going to places that others searched before the first time Forrest mentioned that some had been close…

        • I am fond of the adage that all knowledge is power. I would use a tool in just the way you suggested actually. Not to discount a location but to build upon it.

          I don’t think most of my ideas are even in the slightest original and I feel I’d be hard pressed to go somewhere you (or any of the other some 35000 searchers) haven’t at least considered. But it might just have to be the right person, right place and right time. But it would be nice to even before you go somewhere to know that you think a person went too far, not far enough, on the wrong bank of a river or on the wrong side of a hill.

        • Dal:
          would you re-search your areas that you have been, maybe thinking to go a little farther ,maybe you and others were the ones that forrest was talking about being so close.

          • zenden-
            I search, extend and re-search my area constantly. At least 49 percent of my searches have been to the same generic location over the past three years. I like my WWWH spot. It makes sense to me….whether it makes as much sense to Forrest or not is the key question though…
            I like my canyon down, I like my far but not too far and I like my new home of Brown. I had been using a different HOB for the past couple of years that I was not that enamored of but it was all I could find. The newest one seems to click along historically and comfortably with the other Nine Clues for me. So this spring I will be exploring from that point looking for the next clue…
            So far, I have been very systematic in examining my area. But I am looking for the next clue…not indulgence…not yet anyway…

  97. Don’t think I will detail my search areas, I may want to re-search them.
    For all I know, I may have been one of the famous “200ft” searchers!
    Dal hit it on the head. A searcher could re-check all the spots hoping to find the one the unlucky searcher missed by 200ft. But, as this has come up before, I doubt everyone would do it, I know I wouldnt.

    • I would search old, retired and worn out spots… but I do a lot of strange things as I tend to value novelty over functionality in most of life. That aside I am finding it terribly hard joining the chase this late in the game to come up with a solve I like that has not been done at least twice before. (or any solve that I like for that matter as I despise any solution for home of Brown that I can imagine)

      It is a weird combination of ego and humility that leads a person to admit that they are not original or unique but also be willing to gamble that under almost all the same circumstances that others have found themselves measured and found wanting to repeat the act in the desperate hope that the results may be different. It’s odd, but it is my lot for here and now.

      • Love the logic or lack thereof here. I have searched the same 2 areas 4 times each (granted, a few of those trips were recon due to significant snow on the ground) and plan to go back. I have gone where many others have gone before. But, I don’t have closure yet, and will likely return to both spots (within 60 miles of one another ) at least once more. BOTG is crucial to seeing the “lay of the land”. Now, what is the definition of obsessed again?

  98. Dys, I don’t see you joining the chase “this late”. THE CHEST HAS NOT BEEN FOUND! This puts EVERYONE on the same place on the Monolpoly board! “GO”!
    Read the poem til it’s stuck in your brain, then, read TOTC then re-read the poem. I guarantee, you will see similarities and subtle hints! Here’s the secret to doing that…don’t read logic and “adulthood” in anything! Just take each word for its true meaning. See, the problem with us adults, is that we reprogrammed our brains to THINK we know the meaning of words and we don’t! A child starts with a blank slate and LEARNS what words and phrases mean. Fenn is a poet and author, so he knows words. He knew this would be over the “educated” man’s head.
    Enjoy the words like a man who sees a mountain Valley for the first time…fresh, green, clean, amazing.
    Drink them in, roll them around in your mouth and enjoy the real meanings of the words, like “several”, as F said.
    I know you are quickly grasping at anything to catch up in the chase, but we are all neck and neck.
    The fact that F said when the treasure is found, we’d say, “Why didn’t I think of that?!” told me to stop trying to twist the poem to MY meaning, it must twist ME to its meaning! Explore the poem/words/meanings as if you turned over a log to see underneath it. Use what others say as examples of how each person thinks, but remember! They haven’t found it either, so no matter how hard they stomp their feet or speak like a professor, they are treasure less too!
    I used one whole spiral notebook breaking down the definition of each word in the poem! Did you know that “brown” can also mean ‘an earthy environment’?
    Take a few days, break it down, then read it all from beginning to end, then read the TOTC!
    A nickle under/on a grave is a military reference, so is a penny, dime and quarter. Look THAT UP, and you’ll understand why F said he wanted to put a nickle under someone’s headstone!
    We are our worst enemy, and sometimes things best hidden are hidden in plain sight! I’ve found several things F has hidden in plain sight!
    Don’t give up! Keep an open mind but don’t pollute it with other searchers ideas! (No offense, fellows!) Read, hear and listen to what you hear!
    Be safe!
    ¥Peace ¥

    • Just for clarity and accuracy, Donna M. and others, it is TTOTC and not TOTC. With f saying to not discount any words in the poem, it surprises me that you would leave out the first T. This is not just any old Thrill Of The Chase, it IS The Thrill Of The Chase! I am flabbergasted that some people drop the first T. IMO, to have the best chance at finding indulgence, one must pay attention to the subtle details. Example: Donna M, why don’t you list your name as Dona M.? If I were to search for Dona instead of Donna… Do you understand? Just saying. I’m just a little perturbed and venting.

  99. Eloquently stated. Should be posted in the “Cheat Sheet” for all to read.

    Good luck to all searchers (New and old) – STAY SAFE

    JD

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