454 thoughts on “No Place For The Meek…

    • Three weeks since your post, where are all the searcher’s comments since then? I find it curious that Forrest made two trips from his car to the treasure site in one afternoon, yet he says “too far to walk”. Ideas?

      • There must be a road through the canyon that he drove on until he got to the home of brown. He walked from there.

      • Mark, the phrase “too far to walk” refers to the travel
        from “where warm waters halt”, “in the canyon down”,
        not far . . .

        All this travel occurs before one continues, at a place
        or thing that is “no place for the meek”.

        Furthermore, this travel (I mentioned in the above
        sentence) was likely done using a vehicle of some
        kind, which would probably have been used to transport
        FF and the treasure. “Too far to walk” has not been
        defined by an agreeing “vote” by all searchers. And
        people have walked thousands of miles, right? I think
        that FF meant “too far to walk in a day” or something
        like that, which probably means somewhere between
        5 and 20 miles (just an estimate by me).

        The two trips carrying the goodies were done farther
        along on the correct search route, after finding a place
        or thing related to “heavy loads and water high”.
        These two (“carrying”) trips were not too far for FF to walk in one afternoon.

        The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

        Good luck in your search. Please be safe.

    • Good Morning Jake,

      Have reservations. It is nearly time to go. I only wish Kedar could go with me, it’d be a nice place to ride.

      No place for the meek….

      The poem is a well crafted work of art.

      • Good morning to you K Mom.
        Ride a horse?
        Yes, the poem is well crafted artwork.
        The newly fallen snow is not making you feel a little meek?
        I don’t know what state you’re looking in, but good luck, make sure you check in at a certain time & watch out for the rabbit holes, they are everywhere. I wanna hear you do the 2 dollar holler when you get back.

        • Yes, ride a horse. Snow? Not worried at all.
          $2 holler, no biggie, but the odds are 50/50 that’s pretty good I’d say.
          Rabbits? I saw one last night while riding, it was too cute.
          Lol, I see I have been upgraded to K Mom, not KM.
          What you don’t want the TC to be found?

          • K Mom,
            I think Red Canyon would be a nice place to start the ride.
            50/50 – You really are confident. I hope you have a cordless jackhammer with you to break it free. Something is telling me the chest is still.
            When you fall off your high horse, shake off the meek & get right back on again.

          • Red Canyon, yes I’d love to ride there someday. I might even take my horse Lightning.
            I only need gloves and a backpack. Why on earth would I need a jackhammer?
            Confident? Yes, it’s my Cowgirl Spirit.

          • When the molecules of a liquid slow down enough that their attractions cause them to arrange themselves into fixed positions as a solid.
            So when are you heading out?

          • Are you not aware that the TC can be retrieved at any time of the year? That is a pretty well known bit of information (I found that on this blog). Also, no tools are needed.
            I will answer when leaving, soon, before the month is over.

          • Yes, I am aware of that statement. But at what cost & is it feasible?
            No tools are needed, so I recommend getting a large pile of firewood to make a bonfire right above the chest. It may take a few hours to melt the ice & snow, but worth the effort. Good luck & stay warm.

          • Don’t need to make a fire. That would require tools. An ax or saw to cut firewood. I don’t think Forrest would be happy if I was going around cutting stuff up to make a fire and melt snow.
            It’s a place a three year old can go anytime of the year with an adult.

          • Maybe tools would be required for YOU to start a fire.
            Are you calling mother nature a tool?
            How about mother earth with the fire burning below our feet?

            There’s probably wood laying around where the treasure is seeing you are in the wood. No tools necessary. I never said to cut anything up.
            How about a 9v battery with steel wool? Is the battery a component of a tool, that is a tool itself?
            How about mixing a couple components together to create a fire? Are those earth made components tools?
            I think not.
            Your horse is getting higher & smarter than you & will be more difficult to get back on, next time you are thrown off.

            I am not here to make Forrest happy.
            And please don’t call mother nature or mother earth a tool just because they can sustain & create fire.

            Excuse me while I get back to why this post was created.

          • Where does it say that “no tools are needed”? For some reason I have a feeling he put an adjective in that statement, to leave the idea open for imagination. Just like he does with every statement he makes.

          • Jake, you have many questions. I am not giving you any more answers. Donate my $2 to charity (Petsmart) if I (should be so lucky) find the chest. Peace Out.

  1. Divorce is also no place for the meek.

    So why is it “it’s no place for the meek”?
    Or is there a different meaning that Forrest has in mind?
    Can you take this as face value?
    Or is there an underlying meaning we need to know.
    Joseph Meek?
    Meek as in submissive?
    I would have to think it has nothing to do with your insecurities & behavior.
    But a place.
    “From there”

    • I’m not sure if it has to do with insecurities or behavior either…

      How about a name of a place? I don’t like using name personally, but the word could be describing a name, instead of having a feeling or fear. Meek means timid, shy… what is another word for timid that could match an actual location and still means timid… Sheepish comes to mind. Sheep mountain? Sheep creek?

      There are a lot of words in the poem that are opposites… maybe we are looking for the meaning of meek in the opposite. Brave? maybe.

      Here’s the thing… are we only to read this as a single line for what it refers to?
      In the same stanza we have no paddle up your creek. The saying means a difficult situation, does this relate to meek as well? Even heavy loads can be described as a burden; noun, a load, especially a heavy one. And we still have ‘the end’… I’m sure it’s not hard to see end as meaning life, or a something final or permanent point. The whole stanza seems to be talking about the same thing. So are we looking for an answer to the line “no place for the meek” or all four lines as one? Even two answers with the semicolon connection as both answers relate closely to each other.

      • Remember to use the entire line including “From there”. Very important IMO.

        Also “No paddle up your creek” is different from the classic “up the creek without a paddle”. The former is IMO related to either drunkiness or punishment.

        But you are correct, now it’s looking like 9 sentences may be the actual clues. I’m a bit stumped by this as well.

        The thing is… Forrest referred many times to “Begin it Where warm waters halt” — and never BIWWH and take in the canyon down, not far, etc.

        I think once this is cleared up, we will all be much more on track. Maybe he knows that however.

        -C

        • You’re correct in my opinion…if you look in the mirror where does you’re reflection reflect from? From there in the mirror, of course!

        • When an interviewer read the second stanza to Forrest and asked if there was a clue in there he responded (paraphrase) looks like 3 or 4 to me.

          Now how can it be that the nine sentences are the nine clues when 3 or 4 clues are in stanza 2 which has only 2 sentences? Unless Forrest was just kidding with his answer then I can see it 9 sentences =9 clues. Do you think he was just saying it in jest?

          • A clue is a hint. A “clou” is a location of interest, as well as a nail. In my opinion, there are 9 “clous” to nail down. In my opinion, every line (not necessarily every word) of the poem is a clue / hint about where one should be looking.

            When Fenn says “3 or 4”, is he throwing out numbers that add up to 7?

          • I tend not to agree with your opinions most of the time but this is one of the best and most logical points I have seen on this blog. It pretty definitively ends the “Nine sentences, nine clues” debate.

          • Yes I do think he was kidding. 9 sentences = 9 clues otherwise three stanza’s are wasted. Forrest would not have put 15 years developing something that he knew people would have to throw away half…NOT LOGICAL quips Spock.

            JD

          • JD….I don’t think he was kidding when he said sounds like 3 or 4 clues in the second stanza. Why would he do that to us? He has said that he would not mislead anyone, the poem is difficult enough.

            How do you know that Forrest didn’t use 3 stanzas for clues and 3 stanzas for hints? I don’t think he wasted any stanzas, but I do think the clues that get you closer to the chest are in stanzas 2-4 and the hints are scrambled throughout stanzas 1,5, and 6 of the poem. IMO.

      • Seeker,
        You’re up sheep’s creek without a paddle.
        I think it is a place, but more importantly, you will have to go “there” after you paddle through the meek area.

        “So are we looking for an answer to the line “no place for the meek” or all four lines as one?”
        Neither for me.
        I believe “From there it’s no place for the meek,” is the 4th clue we need to figure out. I think meek may have a double meaning, timid & Joseph Meek.
        Don’t forget, I just put in below the home of Brown somewhere on the Madison.

        • I guess this makes sense. Fenn could have written “It’s not far but too far to walk” and that would have been a complete sentence. He chose not to however — maybe to indicate that the clue is not complete without “And take it in the canyon down”.

          This type of solve will take a completely different approach. My “Blazes” go out the window.

          If this is the correct way, all of Dal’s threads about single-line clue ideas are now defunct.

          Dal??

          -C

          • Anything is possible.
            I try to be open to others interpretations.
            I also still believe in my theory.

            I never said the clues were in single lines did I..
            I said the poem was a set of directions..that if followed precisely will take you to the chest…
            I still believe that.

          • I also believe that it is a set of directions Dal, as you know by now.
            You have put many gray hairs on your head, aside from the ones that revolt & find another resting place.
            You have made many trips in the states & have more experience than most of us searching & thinking. It appears you have settled down on an area near West Yellowstone. Just wondering when your next trip will be? Maybe we can share a tear or 2 for or our efforts.

            My hairs are getting gray as well & lots have jumped in the Firehole & Madison only to end up in the Gulf of Mexico.

    • Jake, I also considered places that would not have been safe
      for Joseph Meek . . . for example, things that were named after
      “Indian” (native American) tribes. But none of the named items
      supported the next clue, while being supported by the earlier
      clue. In order for a solve to be valid, EVERY clue has to agree
      with all the other clues, right?

      The solve I finally “settled on” with enough confidence to make
      a BOTG search does not involve anything or any place relating
      specifically and solely to anybody named Meek. I used the
      (non-capitalized) word “meek” as a simple adjective. I think
      FF used it partly because it rhymes with “creek”, helping his
      poem to rhyme.

      By the way, while it may be possible for a three-year-old kid to
      walk to where the TC is, it would be quite a long walk, unless
      someone drove or carried the kid unusually close to the hidey place. I believe FF boldly drove a 4×4 close to the hidey place.
      Maybe that’s what the poem’s second line indicates. For those of us not quite as bold as I believe FF was on the day he hid
      the TC, we would be hiking a lot farther than he did (in my opinion), and the length of the hike would be more than I can easily imagine (and I think I have QUITE AN IMGINATION) any three-year-old to do in one day, without throwing a few tantrums
      on the way, or at least collapsing from exhaustion — after the
      tantrums, of course. So for all practical purposes, I don’t
      recommend bringing any child younger than about 12 on this
      particular hike. It’s a good mile and a half, and generally uphill,
      although it dips a little near the midpoint. That’s to get to the TC. Carrying it back is generally downhill, but still a good mile
      and a half. All in thin air. This is all based on MY experience
      and MY solve. I think my solve is valid, and will be putting
      BOTG again soon. Last time I was “snowed out” and aborted the hike early, because I didn’t want to freeze to death.

      The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

      Good luck in your search. Please be safe.

      • Have fun Andrew: “I also considered places that would not have been safe
        for Joseph Meek”
        I never mentioned “safe” when it comes to Joseph Meek.
        I just happen to think that YNP is no place for him to hunt, trap & trade now.
        Well, I’m glad you use uncommon sense & didn’t become a frozen casualty.
        1 – 2 miles seems appropriate & I would not want to bring anyone too young as well seeing I have a tough time controlling myself.

      • Andrew Jef- Clearly you have not met my kids. You said, ” the length of the hike would be more than I can easily imagine (and I think I have QUITE AN IMGINATION) any three-year-old to do in one day, without throwing a few tantrums”

        My kids were practically born hiking. My youngest (a daughter) insisted on walking all by herself on a three mile very steep hike at the age of two! She was dressed in a diaper and marched herself right up that mountain like it was no challenge at all. It was a very challenging hike for the average person. At the age of six, the same daughter insisted that we allow her to carry her very own overnight pack and haul ALL of her own gear on a ten mile hike in the Yosemite backcountry. Anyone ever do the Ten Lakes hike? It is considered strenuous, climbing over 2,000 feet in elevation over a short distance. She marched right up that trail, while some of her older siblings struggled. And she did it carrying all of her own gear to last 4 days. Sometimes she even sang and skipped.

        When I get this poem figured out, I’m hauling the kids, grandkids and all. That is what we do. No hike is too challenging for us.

        • Puzzled, I’m glad that your daughter is such an
          athlete. Good for her, and good for her parents!

          Good luck to you and your family. I’m sure you
          will all enjoy the search experience.

          Please treat safety as a high priority, okay?

  2. Another searcher/blogger pointed out ‘meek’ fly or fishing reals, no place as they are too expensive! Or not the correct gear/tackle for the heavy loads and water high…..or, no water in our creek so no need for the meek….just sharing ideas and thoughts.

    • Yes Cholly,
      No place for the meek fly fishing reel. The water. I vaguely remember one of the searchers picking the older locals brains somewhere near YNP & the meek reel doesn’t do well in water?
      I am thinking it may have been Donna M.
      I will have to research but that now leads me to a triple meaning where you are in water.

      • If the chest lays hidden for 1000 years, then I assume Meek reels could be obsolete. The clues have to point to things that will withstand the years. Of course geography can change. FF admitted that but said that was not in his control. But the clues are in his control. I refuse to believe he would have chosen clues that were man made and therefore more subject to change. It’s just my opinion

  3. From there it’s “no” place for the meek.

    Oh, maybe it means at that place in the poem a meek person would say “no.”

    Like “No,” I’m not jumping off the cliff into the Ik Kill Cenote. I’m feeling a bit meek.

    • If you are brave, then you should not be very deterred simply
      by being in a place that is “no place for the meek”. I think he
      used the word “meek” figuratively.

      FF has told us that the TC is “not in a dangerous location”, right?
      I think he meant “not automatically dangerous just by virtue of
      where it is”. This, in my belief, doesn’t mean that it COULDN’T
      be dangerous to go there. For example, during a forest fire in
      the area, or during a major earthquake (I mean REALLY MAJOR!) in that area. Like FF said, any place COULD be
      dangerous at times.

      Normally, though, I think the place is pretty safe. But the Rockies
      have been known to have mosquitoes, snakes, bears, mountain
      lions, etc. So please do your “due diligence” and research some
      before you head to your search area, okay? Don’t take a
      flimsy raft down a river in the middle of winter, for example!

      The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

      Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe.

  4. hi all… been lurking for a few months now… having fun reading all the posts.

    and I have to disagree, it is complimented by “brave in the woods”

    that’s all I have to say about that… thx

  5. I found the Meeks Ranch on my last trip!!!maybe it means not one but more than one!!! My trip was cut short because the snow melt made the road in the wood impossible. Ok I’m heading back to north of Santa Fe this weekend.

  6. Cloves/cloven hooves, sheepeater Indians, epic adventure, blackfoot territory, taking crap from family, couldn’t resist that last one;-)

  7. I read Journal of a Trapper and was unable to ascertain what wouldn’t be a place for Major Meek in the stories. I know the author mentioned being chased/attacked out of the Cinnabar Mtn area, but it isn’t clear if Maj Meek was with him at the time. Maybe someone else has more info on this?….

  8. “Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth” (Matthew 5:5)

    “From there it’s no place for the meek,”

    A place, point that is not on this earth…
    Self inflection….

    • I agree, I can’t hear this line and not think of the sermon on the mount. What is lost to many is what it means to be meek and what it may mean by earth. The Greek literally meant the land, so no place for the meek might be the water. Or maybe he is just referring to the meek part, which doesn’t mean weak in the biblical context. It means we curb our urge to avenge the wrongs done against us, and instead use whatever power we have to serve others. It comes from the sorrow for our own weaknesses. If we feel sorrow for our own sins, can we really feel vengeful over the sins of others? It also is the refusal to inflate our own self estimation, you don’t always try and put yourself in the best light. It doesn’t mean you can’t apply your strengths, especially if it is as a servant to others.

        • I agree Seeker. Bible verses will not help. I think people are bring random information from their own imaginations into the poem. I really believe the poem contains all of the information that is needed. I do know there are alternate meanings applied to some words which change the overal meaning of the poem. But, imo All we need is the poem which can be interpreted by understanding all of the possible definitions of the words, and some “soubd alike” words. We dont need other sources. FF said that a comprehensive understanding of geography might be helpful. That is all that is needed.

          • Even without the verse what it means to be meek is often confused to be weak. The strongest, bravest, hero’s to ever live can still be meek.

    • It’s actually a pretty good spot: 9 natural arches.. one being Rainbow Arch. Rattlesnake, Rainbow, 9 , Colorado River, Pinyon and Cottonwood, Can’t find any good HOB though… and no water high…. unless that’s the rock Rainbow.!

      -C

      • Chris,

        “Heavy loads and water high”

        – couldn’t this be a rainbow bridge – rainbow = high water, and bridge = carrying heavy loads?

        – Wisconsin Mike

  9. Like Cyanide, I do some lurking here, gleaning what I can from some of your posts …and being quite amused at many others. I’d like to share something of value (maybe) with you.

    It is my thought that most of the poem clues refer to place names (existing or former) and/or geographic features. This “no place for the meek” clue I believe is contrived by slightly ‘bending’ one of the meanings of this place name. [remember that FF takes existing words and “bends them a little…”]

    ‘What is this place?’, you ask. Some of you know of it already and many have already searched there. Like FF, I prefer to keep ‘where’ to myself, as I have yet to make my first search, which is planned for next month.

    • LabRat, now that it’s August, did you make your first search?
      How did it go? What did you learn? Would you like to share
      any info about it?

      If you didn’t find the TC, good luck in your next solve/search.

  10. IT’s NO….

    or

    What is Forrest the most insecure about? Going bald, being naked, taking a shower and having a skylight, looking in mirrors and seeing the young man in an old man’s body.

    So, no place for the meek could be a mirror, or someplace bald, or someplace naked or bare, or could be a play on words like Mount Haynes, referring to being in foundation undergarments. Mount Haynes being a play on Hanes underwear.

    Or IT’s NO…which leads to a whole different idea altogether.

    So why is it when it’s no?

      • yea Wolf. true it is Mindy has got something and now I have to look into it, it’s part of my solve if it fits?
        Keep in mind that a woman is looking at this from a different perspective. Way to go Girl

      • OH! C’mon… If that was true, I’da found the dang thing by now!!! lol.
        I should re-subscribe for the catalog, maybe mine is out of date. Yep, that’s what I’ll tell the wife anyways.

    • @Mindy – A gene is available that, once turned off, turns meek into fearless. No place for the meek might a place with an abundance of posted warning signs of the animals, lightning, giardia, slippery rocks, fire potential, and the general dangers of hiking off path. After reading all of these, one would need to be a bit fearless to ignore them and to continue.

      https://www.dropbox.com/sc/e7e3wr3a5gw7ih0/AADvS-afE-qx0l9Dsz-4SsKfa

      Also, Mindy, I saw your questions analyzing Good Housekeeping Magazine and a can opener from Dec 2014 in Nine Clues. Have a look at some of these recent pics. Sorry about the snow in Colorado Springs at the moment. I’m a bit limited in my movement capability right now.

      https://www.dropbox.com/sh/m1lzmzl8j5nmsxz/AACBfOGSIIE2nZ73kHPl9Y3Ma?dl=0

      There is also a bell there. And the history of it seems to be similar to a few things found in Father on the Banco, including the Fenn family home extension, a synonym for the word banco is school, and it was a home for a while. It’s also a place to turn over a log or two, t’s public property, it was used as a church (a religious experience) and it’s across the street from a couple of structures that look eerily similar to his one-room accommodations in W Yellowstone on p46. When was Fenn posting by the handle “Forrest Fire”?

      • I think the can opener comment was related to her face looking cranky. The older hand crank can openers look a little bit like that emblem on the plaque above the door of the Black Forest School (I think this is clou #9).

        I got here because of a bronze plate at clou #8 (Shrine of the Sun… have a look at Spanish translation of “smile” which Fenn likes to use a lot), pointing to Black Forest. I was also able to get here using word translation and chapter bouncing from “title to the gold”, a Spanish translation produces what looks like a homonym to “parlor”, or a “building used for milking cows”. I then checked Bessie and Me, where “tail” was being emphasized. “Tail” translated in Spanish to “cola”, or then Gold and More. I then translated “cola” into Spanish, which said “reajuste salarial”, suggesting “Father on the Banco” where Fenn’s income is discussed. “Banco” also has a Spanish synonym for “school”, which then the similarities of the story appeared.

        • “… smile at homely girl” (in my opinion) is the actual hint from clou #8 to clou #9, because the epitaph quote from HL Mencken is actually “… wink at a homely girl”. I believe Fenn is winking at us with the hint saying from the Shrine of the Sun (“smile translated to a homonym of “sunrise”) to head toward a “rustic home”, as “rustic” is a synonym for “homely”.

          There are many bronze plates on the observation deck at Shrine of the Sun to help guide a tourist through a stationary view-finder. One of the plates says “Black Forest” (perhaps in the wood). There is literature called “Bravo of the Bohemia” written by a mysterious person that also involves a famous story of hints related to Lord and Lady Byron. Perhaps Lord Byron is the connection to the bracelet Fenn wants back.

          • I don’t see the lord Bryson connection I do see that he was a flamer

            She Walks in Beauty
            She walks in beauty, like the night
            Of cloudless climes and starry skies;
            And all that’s best of dark and bright
            Meet in her aspect and her eyes:
            Thus mellow’d to that tender light
            Which heaven to gaudy day denies.

            One shade the more, one ray the less,
            Had half impaired the nameless grace
            Which waves in every raven tress,
            Or softly lightens o’er her face;
            Where thoughts serenely sweet express
            How pure, how dear their dwelling-place.

            And on that cheek, and o’er that brow,
            So soft, so calm, yet eloquent,
            The smiles that win, the tints that glow,
            But tell of days in goodness spent,
            A mind at peace with all below,
            A heart whose love is innocent!

          • @Sunny day – thank you for asking. I don’t enjoy conversing with only myself about this stuff, and I appreciate the intellectual interaction.

            So, it’s actually Lord Byron…

            When describing the bracelet Fenn wants returned, he refers to winning it in 1965 from Byron Harvey, the son of Fred Harvey, the hotel magnate.

            Lord and Lady Byron had some issues. A story about how these issues evolved include a mysterious note placed as a hint inside of a book and handed to Lord Byron. The book was “The Bravo of Bohemia”, or “brave” and “Black Forest”. “Bohemians” are known today as artsy types, like Fenn.

          • @Sunny day – ah! Please forgive me. For a moment I believed you were actually interested instead of being sarcastic. I have recognized it now, and will move forward.

          • @ECWaters, I have read your seven falls theory and researched some of your work. When I first looked at it I was reminded of the movie “Big” and the scene when Tom Hanks is in the boardroom and says “I don’t get it”. Well I have read it now and I have to say… I still don’t get it. I sincerely wish you the best of luck in your search. You have certainly put a ton of effort into your research and work it made my head spin. I don’t have that big of a brain.

          • @Med_evac… no worries. For the sake of keeping on topic, I’m happy to explain any part of it over in the Seven Falls Theory thread if you’re truly interested.

        • wow, Great job EC. I never once thought about ff using SPANISH as a secondary way to get the meaning of some of this Poem.
          Tim

          • While FF made it plain in TTOTC that he never (well, hardly ever…) payed attention in Spanish class, he’s had several years to get better at it. If, for instance, your solve is in northern NM, almost every place in the entire friggin’ state has a Spanish name; it used to be part of Mexico, didn’t it. It would therefore follow that translating a Spanish place name into a clue makes sense, yes?

            [who caught my G&S reference?]

          • He said that everything we need “is in the poem”. i think too many people are getting sidetracked and not focusing on the poem. Everthing we need is in the poem!

        • I speak spanish, and never use banco as a scholl, banco for us is bank, or side walk or shoal, when we see a lot of fish.

          • Hi Carlo. I grew up speaking the French my grandfather brought over from the Alsace region. In my travels to other far-flung French speaking places, I’m amazed at how my Euro-centric French just doesn’t apply there.

            So it is with Spanish in Nuevo Mexico, especially with the Nortenos. It’s said the particular Norteno dialect is almost unchanged from the early 16th century Castillan Spanish. That’s when the missionaries left the pilgrims to fend for themselves in the wild outback. Much of the vocabulary and phrasing passed down remains intact with little change. As do many customs….

  11. You guys are good, great ideas. The last time I ate, a New Mexican plate, the sweat from my brow reminded me that Christmas was no place for the meek.

  12. this is just my opinion about what forrest was trying to say but couldn’t – when you take it in the canyon down – its where youll find the home of brown from there its no place to seek (meek) the end is farther a way and to the left its just my opinion

    • I would like to order Two Eskimo Rolls Smothered! Embudo/Rio Grande RED on that and hold the Green for the Rock Garden Rapids. I hope I am not gonna become “Brown” food in there.

      Tom T

    • My wife & I were just in that area looking on the south side of the creek. Maybe there’s something in one of the El Bosque sites to the north? I couldn’t find a HOB on the north side of the creek, though. My wife did find a metal arrowhead where we were searching (maybe it was just shaped like an arrowhead…).

    • Hi Amy, just because its no place for the meek “from” there does not tell us we must go there. Perhaps we make a detour there or change tracks.

      Tom T

      • Tom
        if you change “tracks” then your changing the poem. FF said “do not mess with the poem”. Also, if your at that spot then the poem is telling you that the right direction will not be for the meek.

        • Timothy, the word FROM is used like Canyon Down, all canyons go down, but some go “south” out of the Rockies, but the word “FROM” there does not IMO mean you “WILL, SHOULD OR MUST” go (in) there.

          So just because the word from has several meanings does not “insist” that we must travel there, If we look up the definition of from, the 5th stated definition is :

          #5 indicating the point at which an observer is placed.
          “you can see the island from here”

          It does not mean we are “going” to the island, merely from our view it can be “seen” from the home of Brown.

          Funny that this word “from” is IMO part of the 5th element (clue) that confirms as a hint that you are on the correct pathway.

          https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=from%20definition

          Tom T

  13. I think this line is not to be taken at face value. There should be no reason to guess if you really understand the poem.

    • Pussled,

      There is only one definition for “Canyon”, and only 2 for down, could this be any more plainly described?

      Now tell me that all canyons go up? I agree, yes they do, but the poem says ” take it in the canyon down” and down is either lower or South? Tell me where it can vary from that description and I will adjust my thinking, otherwise you have got it wrong…

      Tom T

      • Just a PS if a canyon does not go down, it will soon become a LAKE, because nothing in the Rockies defies the law of gravity, right?

        Tom T

        • Tom T-
          What source did you use to get a definition for these words? Did you look at homophones, alternate spellings, ancient definitions. Do you really know every single thing there is to know about canyons and “down”?

          I will give you one more definition of down which I do not believe to apply to the poem. But, down is also the soft fuzzy feathers of a young duck, or goose. It is not impossible that this is tied to the poem and I do know that people who have searched in places suggesting goose down. I think it is not the correct definition to apply to the poem, but I do not have the TC.

          I can just tell you that you have not searched all of the possibilities if you are still asking this question.

          • Puzzled, with your definition, this all begins to sound like a “Wild Goose (down) CHASE” to me, so if you want believe that down is that definition, sounds a little feathery or fluffy, but canyon down seems simple enough to get from HOB to no place for the meek.

            If there is no geographical location or significance it’s not a clue, it is a hint, just whispering here in tight focus…

            Tom T

      • All I can tell you Tom T is that you are missing something. Dig deeper in your research of these words. I have documentation of other definitions. (widely accepted printed sources)

        • All the defining of words is analogous to ff’s comments about understanding foot pounds, stellar locations, and another million rabbit holes, the truth is you must prove you solve on his terms, and certainly put boots on the ground, which I have done 29 times, June will be the 30th , but my wife works in Santa Fe, NM and I retired, and live in the mountains, I am familiar with Northern NM and Co, having live here, except for “Nam and College” all 69 years of my life, yes I have an advantage, I admit, living in the southern Rockies, and my mom, dad and grandparents were all from Tyler, Temple, and Abilene, Texas they were God fearin Baptist, just like ff’s family, and when ff speaks in his poem, and Thrill Book , his clues and hints are a frame of reference that just resonates in my memories.

          We will see who finds the T chest this summer, or maybe not. Regardless it is after all the thrill we seek, not the quarry.

          Tom T

  14. IMO, those of you that feel that “No place for the meek” refers to a place name. I totally concur….Someplace like Devil’s Trough, Danger Ridge or Fearful Falls.
    …All places that would be “No place for the meek”.

    Just my opinion, of course.

    Good luck to all searchers, and STAY SAFE

    JD

  15. Thank you for stating that JD, and that is a possibility I will keep in mind.

    IMO, “no place for the meek” not only refers to a place, but also what a person might have a fear of, ex= water, heights, snakes, bugs, spiders, flying etc. So this place may cause someone to fight their fear (meek) and only the successful ones that conquer such fear will advance.

    Good luck,

    Melissa

  16. 9th line in the poem, and probably has something to do with the 9th clue. So for me it is hard to figure out right now. Might have to do with being wise, and being brave at the same time. Still working on this one though… I will be spending alot of time on this thread..

  17. hammer- I think that wise means – if you have figured out where the blaze is don’t be afraid to go in the wood to where its at just my opinion

  18. Just one-tenth of a mile past the Mt. Brown Trail junction is the turn-off for the Snyder Lake Trail. After turning left at the junction the trail continues to follow Snyder Creek, which flows down the valley between Mt. Brown and Edwards Mountain. Much of the route to Snyder Lake passes through tall vegetation, so it’s a very good idea to make a lot of noise and keep an eye out for bears as you proceed up the valley. Hikers will also see a wide variety of wildflowers along this section of the trail as well.

    After gaining another 1000 feet over the course of the next 2.5 miles, the trail tops out at nearly 5250 feet, before making a short descent down to the lake.

    Snyder Lake lies in a basin surrounded by 8565-foot Mt. Brown towards the north, and Edwards Mountain towards the south. 7886-foot Little Matterhorn, towards the northeast, is the mountain that lies directly ahead of you as you arrive at the foot of the lake. If you look closely you’ll notice a couple of waterfalls cascading down the cliff walls surrounding the lake.

  19. This is the easiest part of the Poem…. No Place for the Meek.. It’s no place for the mountain man MEEK, so it takes us into the Rockies of Wyoming, Montana, etc. It also has a double meaning… No place for the meek is a thick part of the wood, where Grizzlies live. Any part of Brown Bear Country and no human trails around is “no place for the meek”

    • If we already have a location for HOB.. then why re-iterate “The Rockies” or a wooded part of the Rockies later on?

      -C

  20. Maybe it means “FROM THERE” and “No Place for the meek”

    TEMPLE. Temple TX was a rough town and a temple can be a rough place if you are about to be sacrificed to the Sun God.

    -C

  21. The wording of “FROM there” does not tell us we MUST or Should go in there, it infers if you have found WWWH and the Canyon down, you may want to consider or reconsider not going into that area, called “no place for the meek” because at that point, below the home of Brown you must detour NIGH!

    Normally people think that is where the poem leads you, but carefully reading it, it does not state we must go in there, no we may have to change our path there to NIGH in direction, that is the 3rd and little know meaning of Nigh.

    This is IMO where we turn Nigh, left see this:

    https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/nigh

    Just remember the unnecessary word is Drawing, and I can assure you that DRawing is a hint, not a clue, so distinguish the clues from the hints and you could be Golden…

    Tom T

    • Also, what about this. Begin it, take it in, then put in….. no,no,no, it does not mean to put in. It’s telling us (like a map would ) that a put in is below hoB. You see put in to a fisherman means to begin, such as ‘ we will put in at Ron’s Marinia and wade to Wakins creek. So—-we can’t begin twice.

      • I think “put in” is the definition of a word and I believe I know what it is. I think that the more common use of “put in” is misdirecting most people.

      • I don’t think we are to “put in”. There is a word that means “put in” that is needed here. IMO. I think the term “put in” is leading many people astray. Look deeper.

          • @Jake – for complaining sooooo much about my confidence and proposed theories, you seem sooooo confident that they are incorrect. How does such an entitlement logically work out in your head? I guess you have found the chest and the path wasn’t where I’m suggesting?

          • EC,
            Obviously, I don’t have the chest. You really think I would let you continue your search although I find it amusing. Pun intended.
            I take it you didn’t find it yet.

          • @Puzzled – I see you’re looking at things in new ways. Go to google translate, translate “enter” from English to Spanish, reverse the translation so that entrar is the only term translated to English. Scroll down for other alternatives. Hopefully you can see “put it” is an alternative. In my interpretation, he’s telling us to “enter below the Ponderosa Pine sign”.

            For additional help, follow the asterisks, the pie (or footnotes), from the proper guides along the full path, I interpret, is also what he’s telling us in TTOTC. One such guide can be found looking at a map from the Seven Falls Wikipedia page, a photo of a sign in their park. Search “asterisk” in the book.

            Another important literature (or plan), is called the Black Forest Master Plan, a possible pic of the running man blaze can be discovered related to Fenn’s “church”, discussed by Spalding (competitor to Rawlings Pro-5). When Fenn describes “sway”, or “sand”, he’s probably talking about the “arena” near Dreamland, as in that story of rowing gently down the stream, merrily. “Life’s a Dream” with a 17th century Spanish ring.

          • I’m very interested in following your search because I can see you really have thought it out carefully.

            I am a bit wary of solves that require a lot of interpretation from the book. Should need only the poem and a map. Of course the poem must be intensely studied; words and phrases studied. I know there are hinto in the book. But I think thatthe solve must come from the poem.

          • Sand –> arena (in Spanish). Sway –> careen –> arena (carena in Spanish). Maybe some here will remember the energy spent on the word “careen” some time back. Fenn seemingly drops these words into conversations to inspire word puzzle thinking.

          • E.C. when will you be going to search your area? I’ve been listening to your posts and am dying to know if you find it. Good Luck!

          • I’m in COS until tomorrow afternoon. I’ve been at a few Black Forest locations exploring, including now. I think the final asterisk is his name, a moor in the forest. But let’s see.

          • That would mean the hunt finishes by a forest fen, as in TTOTC, by Forrest Fenn, or title to the gold.

          • Black Forest seems a little too densely populated for my tastes, but if the clues line up there…. That would really be something if it was right under my nose while I’ve been searching Wyoming/Montana & New Mexico. Do any of your Black Forest locations seem like they would be a “special spot” to Forrest?

          • @Tommy, hard to say but I am still exploring. At the moment, I’m checking out Eastonville cemetery for more hints, in case there are fallen comrades or otherwise in this “haunted glade”.

          • @Tommy – since you live here, maybe you’ll have better luck. I’m heading home tomorrow. Here’s my current working theory of the 9 locations (excluding most directional instructions and the logic of how I got to these points) I believe are found in the poem:

            1) So. Cheyenne Canon, Seven Falls
            2) Ramona Falls
            3) Ponderosa Pine sign
            4) Cripple Creek (at least on the old signs and maps from 2010 and prior)
            5) Helen Hunt Jackson marker
            6) Inspiration Point
            7) Park entrance (directional: take a bus / car)
            8) Will Rogers Shrine of the Sun (The Long Ride Home also describes seeing the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo, but the poem is the shrine)
            9) Not finished yet… Current theory for #9 is either Black Forest or Strawberry Fields.

            I feel the poem, like the book, may attempt to follow a Seven Ages of Man theme, e.g. kids like amusement parks, then more pensive and argumentative with conflict and war (lots of transformations to “arena” or “park”, including Edna St. Vincent Millay doubly emphasizing), then desiring to teach and inspire others, and then maybe leading to death and shrines and bells. I checked out the Eastonville cemetery today, and while I spotted some potential coincidences, e.g. “from the heather” is one from Scrapbook 142, I’m now thinking that maybe the Black Forest Regional Park holds some promise with Milam Rd being a loose “millennium” connection.

            As you can see, and on topic, “no place for the meek” isn’t mentioned as a specific point of interest, but instead clumped together from all of the warning signs in the Seven Falls area.

            Good luck. See my tweets @mikebibler for more on my twisted theories stemming from Scrapbook 107, or I’ll also answer any questions at the Seven Falls Theory blog post.

            http://dalneitzel.com/2016/04/04/seven_falls/

          • @Tommy – I believe there is a “confirmation” marker above the door at the old log schoolhouse on Shoup and Black Forest Rd. The marker suggests a match with “can opener” and “Good Housekeeping Magazine”. Also, there’s several photos and trees in the book suggesting a relationship with the pinery era. And the Byron and bracelet reference also seems to fit when looking at “Bravo in Bohemia” for the brave and in the wood line.

            I guess “what if” Fenn purchased property here and hid the chest on it? Otherwise, there are still some public areas to explore. At the moment, I am just currently following the “Meridian” hints from the book about being in the middle, up and down.

          • EC,
            If we could lay our differences behind for a little research.
            “I guess “what if” Fenn purchased property here and hid the chest on it?”
            Which county would this be in?
            There are public records available online.

          • @Jake – Some hint words Fenn has used that I believe point to it: “move”, “pace”, “pass”, “turn”, “location”, and my fave when he suggested he put one foot down and “step”ped on it…

            El Paso County. Feel free to look at the plot database. Forrest Fenn is not listed as a property owner but perhaps you can find him under another pseudonym.

          • “@Jake – Some hint words Fenn has used that I believe point to it”

            EC. How do you know those words are hint words? They could be just words that he has used. Those words that he used, you think they are hint words. I certainly do not agree.

          • El Paso County. A quick look turns up Aju Fenn, Cheryl Ann Fenn, and Gerald H Fenn. No Forrest…

          • Nice work Tommy.
            You beat me to it.
            Just to add, I don’t think the property would be in anyone else’s name but Forrest’s.
            This is one of the type’s of research we can do at home first before putting BOTG.

          • Maybe the records should be checked for a Mr. Woodrow (Woody) Bogg (snerk!), or Reid Marsh, or Elmer (elm) Moor(e), or a Ms. Catherine (Kat, as in cattail) Muskeg, or ….. just funnin witchu!

          • @melanie – it isn’t outside the realm of possibility that Fenn is participating in a real estate investment corporation or LLC, maybe even a sole proprietorship with a different name, and hiring out the management of one or more properties. Rental investment income is common for pensioners and well-off retirees. This is more the kind of pseudonym I was suggesting, in that it would obfuscate a simple plat search. He could not legally use a funny pseudonym like you are mentioning.

            But thank you for your inputs.

          • Hey E.C. – yeah, all funnin’ aside, I had that notion about 4+ years ago, that FF could’ve had a private holding under an alias name to protect his identity. That made SO much sense…and yes, he certainly could’ve used a “funny name”, perfectly legal. Actually, I’ve done that myself. A couple times.

            I do think there’s some merit to this line of thinking, tho. (refer to Lugnutz’s recent post re: Ponce de Leon Springs near Taos pueblo). However, I’ve not been able to turn up any reputable paperwork/records with any ownership name that has any remote correlation or tie to FF’s name/alias/pseuydonym/handle/etc. I already tried those “funny names”. HA! – Woody Bogg is still the best soubriquet, ever.

            But…that does not rule out the possibility that ff came up with an even more clever “user ID”. Think about it.

          • Forgot to mention, just as an example, a piece of private land or a settled conservation easement, can be in the name of anything….a person, a trust, a company, an LLC, etc….

          • Hello Melanie. Do you believe Mr. Fenn has gone under another “user ID”? Do you speak of posting? He has stated in the past that he only goes by “Forrest Fenn” or “Forrest Fire.” I may be a little confused with your statement.

        • Puzzled, if you translate “put in” into Afrikaans, it means “sit in”, sometimes I think ff does not just “invent words” he borrows them too.

          Now about “From there it’s no place for the meek” that is where we change our tracks or direction to nigh…cause an 80 year old will not enter there.

          Tom T

  22. No place for the meek, huh
    One morning when it was still mostly dark, I was walking along the bank of the Madison River, leisurely fishing and enjoying myself, when I suddenly caught a very strong, musky odor that I didn’t recognize. It puzzled me. When I looked around, there were twelve large buffalo resting in the tall grass, chewing their cuds and looking at me with immense disinterest. They could not have been more than ten feet away……..
    Over the years I have remembered that indecent on the Madison….
    If you have TFTW, you know the rest.

    I think this is the place you have to travel even though you may be meek.
    I don’t think Forrest is meek at all. But some of us searchers are.

  23. Who knows? He’s been indecent in the Firehole.
    Well, I guess we all have been there & done that at someplace or another especially when being born……
    OK, – incident –

  24. Seannm
    on February 10, 2016 at 1:37 pm said:
    JD,

    Exactly couldn’t agree with you more! This is exactly why as ff has said some have identified the first two clues to me in an email then went right on past the other seven.

    I also agree with you that we shouldn’t be so consumed with what the nine clues are and instead focus on understanding the meaning of the poem and the places it is trying to convey.

    In my opinion what we are missing from the line “Put in below the home of Brown” is that the most important part of that line is “put in” not home of Brown at that stage of the your hunt. Because “put in” is another halt – direction change in my opinion, and too many people keep going down the canyon looking for Brown instead of “put in’s”

    I have a different view than most on what “Brown” is, not to say that i am correct in my theory but it sure makes a lot of sense once you look at the “Big Picture”.

    Seannm

      • Hmm… may in join in here, JD? When I moved to the Rockies, I had the hardest time delineating North from South. The reason, everything south of me is higher elevation, and all the rivers and streams run from south to north. Take the Missouri River, for example. Its headwaters are in a small Montana town called Three Forks, yet its sources – the Madison, Gallatin, and Jefferson Rivers all lie south, and have their headwaters up high in the mountains. The Missouri runs far north and east before it begins its southern trek to the Mississippi.

        South may lie at 180 degrees on a map, as North sits at 0 degrees, but unless it’s a 3-D, raised relief contour map, there’s no up or down. 🙂

        Of course, I could’ve misunderstood you; if that’s the case, just ignore my ramblings. 😉

        • I think you were just accidentally brilliant. Think really hard… really really hard. Their is a down and a below on a map of the right kind (no I’m not talking about either of the two you mentioned, those features are irrelevant). I’ve no idea how to apply the concept at this juncture and until I do I shall say no more to keep my edge (or insanity).

          You seriously just watsoned my sherlock and I wanted you to know that.

  25. JD – the best way that I can explain it is this way- imo home of brown is low elevation – so the end is ever drawing nigh ( farther away and to the left) to me is north – high elevation- that’s why I say below being north- just my opinion – so take it in the canyon down is ( south) that’s where youll find the hob then the end to me is farther away then below to me is north jmo frank

  26. Frank, I get what you are saying and agree with the meanin, but when you stated “below to me is north” I feel you meant “FROM THERE” is the direction of North and up in elevation as well, If not, then you might as well be playing Canasta…???

    Tom T

  27. tom -imo from there its no place for the meek – I do not find a direction – only that from there means from home of brown its no place for the meek imo so would you like to join me in a game of canasta

  28. No place for the meek has resonated time and time again. It fits perfectly. Maybe this is the key word. “The treasure is not hidden in a dangerous place in the normal definition of the word, realizing that there probably is no place on this planet that is safe under all conditions. Bloggers have quoted me as saying that a child could walk up to the treasure. I don’t think that’s an accurate quote because a three year old girl would have a problem without some help. Remember, I was about 80 when I hid the chest, and had to make two trips.f”

  29. this is what I think about no place for the meek – what if forrest was trying to say but couldn’t – from there its no place to seek (meek) the chest is not at home of brown – the end is farther away (the end is ever drawing nigh ) at heavy loads and waters high- and if you been wise and found the place ( blaze ) look quickly down your quest to cease just take the chest and go in peace . this is just an opinion

  30. Our thanks go out to all who serve now, and those that have served in the past.

    Our thoughts and prayers go out to his family

    God Speed.

    JD

  31. A place like this may not be for the meek….

    The area has its own unique geology, water features, wildlife and topography. This area has large meadows and marshes, thick undergrowth, and lush forests with large concentrations of moose and beaver, deer and elk, black bear and wolves also inhabit the area, along with an occasional grizzly, coyotes, moose and sandhill cranes can be found in the meadows. Bald eagles, osprey, water fowl, muskrats, and river otters inhabit rivers and adjacent areas.

    • While I agree, that is hardly enough information to be a clue. Far to broad of a descriptor. That late in the poem I would hope it would be narrowed down a bit more. In most of my solves I have taken it to mean that this is the part where you MUST walk out into the wilds (fits nicely with no paddle up your creek as well)

    • Ok so you’re in the park, as no place for the meek. Where did you come from? You should be below hoB, does that mean wwwh and hob is above the park? How did you get to hoB from where you begin, especially when no place for the meek is “from there” hoB? If reading as directional.

    • musstag- you are right – its from there -it didn’t say go there – but when you do get there – its no place for the meek imo

  32. I know this clue. This is one of three that I have solved. I am planning a trip on June 2nd to put my money where my mouth is. Any searchers heading out?

    • I plan to soon, but I don’t know when. Things keep coming up thankfully my schedule and excuses are very flexible.

      I’m skeptical of people who “know” things but I wish you skill and wisdom none the less (I never wish luck, luck can be bad and who wants to win on account of luck rather than personal achievement?)

  33. I have been looking at the clues for months. I have low level OCD, and it gives me something to focus on and pick apart. I will spend hours going through google maps, google earth, online maps, the first book and the poem. I know there is a very little chance of me finding the chest, but someone like me is going to find it. Personally I wish it was Dal, he has spent so much time on this thing. But I truly believe he is in love with the chase more than the gold.

    • I’m not terribly different. I’m perpetually at risk of boredom (boredom is a dangerous state for people like me) if I’m not solving or inventing something. (mind you not the same thing as repairing or building something).

      http://giphy.com/gifs/bored-sherlock-gun-RH0zwYgxBeWm4

      I’m at an almost disappointing spot, there isn’t much else to “solve” until I prove several of my ideas wrong and that requires boots on the ground.

      I too love the chase more than the gold. I don’t know what I would do with that much money even if I did happen to find it.

  34. I’m not sure this is the right place to post this. I really feel like i solved all 9 clues in the poem. There were many coinciding things that occurred to lead me to the solve.

    1. As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold – to me the references a place that he went by himself, which was most likely a fishing spot
    2. Begin it where warm waters halt and take it inthe canyon down – Rio Ojo Cliente ends in La Madera and splits into the Rio Tusos and the Rio Vallacitos. The vallacitos river winds up into a canyon.
    3. Not far but to far too walk – also references that this is a fishing spot becuase of the autobiography title and content.
    4. Put in below the home of Brown. – this clue was one of the first i got, and really it was a fluke to validate…however if you look up Casa de Maron (house of brown) on google maps in santa fe….below it is Vallacitos Rd. Also the vallacitos river holds many fish, including brown trout, and a certain spot where would be a great place for fish to hang out and get caught if you were patient. Also put in is a boating term that leads me to think the spot is on a river. The vallacitos river.
    5. From there it is no place for the meak, the end is ever drawing nigh – This river moves very fast and it comes up to me stomache. It was quite a chore to walk around and manuever down this river. not impossible and indeed pleasurable, but difficult and a little scary. Also this river takes a sharp bend to the left and this is the spot!
    6.There’ll be no paddle up your creek just heavey loads and water high. – when the river bends left, it also bends back right….where it bends right there is a damn where the community can manage the acequia.
    7. If you’ve been wise and found the blaze – there is a tree sticking out of the cliff that is all black. this tree is right where the river bends and the pool for fish is.
    8. look quickly down your quest to cease, but tarry scant with marvel gaze just take the chest and go in peace. – so i think he is saying here, to walk down the river, find the tree and then look down…into the river. tarry scant….tarry-stay scant-close (i got this from a comment fenn left about the word “scant” and the word “close” and how he was talking in circles) “marvel gaze” means goggle….soooo stay close and look with goggles to collect the chest. Also, so hear me all and listen good your effort will be worth the cold – so basically he is saying it is going to be cold…which the river is very cold.
    9. if you are braze and in the wood i give you title to the gold. – La Madera is the town in which the Ojo Caliente ends and turns into rio vallacitos. La Madera means “the wood” in spanish

    Well ok so i went to that spot a couple of times, and that river is kind of scary. I looked down into it with goggles and kepts getting pushed around by the water, and touched by sticks and stuff. Im hoping to beat my fear and find the treasure. But if i dont, and someone else finds it. I just want it to go on record that i was the one who solved the poem 😛 haha, maybe 🙂 Also, I wrote this in a rush and would love to iron out some details with someone if they want? just my take on it. good luck searching this year everyone!!!!!!

    • also the 9 degree mark on the “map” goes right by La Madera, and the highways next to the rivers form an “x” right where ojo ends

    • Morgan,
      Keep in mind that the chest is unlocked. I don’t think it’s under water.
      ” So why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek? The answer I already know . I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak.”
      Don’t ignore the question. In my opinion,it is a very important part of the poem.
      Be safe. Good luck.

  35. I actually went a bit south from there, and used Canon de la Cueva (Canyon of the Cave) cave being Home of Brown Bear and Rio Ojo Caliente goes down (south on the map) through Canon de la Madera. I thought I had spotted a white colored tree amongst other trees via Google Maps, and had used that as my blaze. Alas, I came up empty handed. Awesome view, though. I’ve moved on from New Mexico, and have an expedition to another area planned for the near future. Good luck with your search!

    Stephen

      • I planned an entire week in New Mexico around checking that area… Found a lot of myself there, great memories spent with my wife, excellent food by the locals. I’ll probably return to the area one day just for the beauty, but oh well… My next solve requires a measure of non-meekness. That’s coming soon. 🙂

  36. One idea I had for “no place for the meek” was that Forrest meant “place” to mean like a contest or a race. If you’re meek, you won’t place in the race for the chest. Just an idea. 🙂

    • I think I know where “no place for the meek” is but you won’t find it if you can’t be sure you know where HOB is and you can’t find that if you aren’t sure of WWWH. It’s possible to know WWWH if you haven’t identified “I” in stanza 1, but identifying “I” certainly helps. All in my opinion of course but I’m quite confident.

      • Ok… let’s make list for who ‘I’ in stanza 1 is.
        1. Forrest
        2. Forrest as a kid
        3. Forrest as a adult
        4. …….

        Help us out here puzzled.

          • I know who “I” is, but it is my secret because knowing who “I” is leads to the solution of the poem. I know, I know,. . . I’m supposed to say “in my opinion”. But, I”m sure I know because knowing “I” makes the poem very clear and straightforward and allows it to fit every single one of FF’s clues, hints, etc. So, “in my opinion” I KNOW. I’m stuck on two things, but I’m getting there.

        • So this may sound odd, but consider if you will….Stanza 1 is indulgence speaking. Read it as if you are the trove speaking. Suddenly that stanza makes perfect sense! It is alone, it has bold treasures, it isn’t going to talk and give away its location, and it has things new and old in it.

          No…I haven’t been drinking. Not yet anyway.

          Cheers

          • Good thought Twingem. But, how does that thinking apply to the other “I” references?

  37. Could “not” mean it’s an opposite, but in another tongue. Researching HOB takes on a broader meaning then. IMO

  38. as I have gone in there alone in there – with my treasures of gold – I can keep my secrets where- theres a chest with riches in a hole — with bold being the clue word – or key word this is just my opinion of what stanza 1 means you take it from here

    • lol 42 – glad to see that youre with me on this one – im glad you understand and yes the hOle has a hole in it imo

  39. Im leaving for a dedicated search of Yellowstone area on June 2nd, will be in country on June 4th. Looking for serious high level searchers that would potentially team up. This is my first search, have spent a couple of months reading and digesting the poem and first book and maps etc.
    Where I am going is No Place for the Meek for sure, up mountains and across rivers…I have studied the clues and I am going to exactly where I think it is, without regard for location. A lot of people will start searching near where they live and while easy and fun, has a low shot of actually hitting pay dirt. Im going all out.

    • This seems to be a great area to search I’ve spent a lot of time researching this area and plan on searching it in the future. There are mentions of this area in the book TTOTC, and Fenn must of taken numerous trips through this area going from Bozeman to Yellowstone. One question I ask myself is, how special is this area to him?

        • This is a vague questions could you be more specific on “what he has done”, if you mean hide a treasure lots of people in the past have done that. But challenge others to come find it, I think even a few have done that as well.

          • Not sure I understand your question, but if Forrest needed a favor would I do it for him? Of course, he is a nice guy, he was nice enough to sign the poem for me. He also put on this chase that we love so much. Even when he signed my poem I didn’t ask him any questions but he did have a few for me. It would also help me if you were a little more detailed in your questions.

          • I would say none have done what Forrest has done. I can’t think of any examples where someone hid something of this large a value, wrote a book inviting others to come look for it, gave the profits from book sales to his favorite book store & charities, then stuck around to enjoy the search with those who are looking for it by answering emails and engaging in conversation with them.

            I think if you thought on it a bit, you’d realize it’s a pretty unique thing that we get to be a part of.

          • Jeremy,
            I would agree with that thanks for the specifics and those are a lot of specifics.

          • @ Jeremy P, you said “I would say none have done what Forrest has done. I can’t think of any examples where someone hid something of this large a value, wrote a book inviting others to come look for it, gave the profits from book sales to his favorite book store & charities, then stuck around to enjoy the search with those who are looking for it by answering emails and engaging in conversation with them.

            I think if you thought on it a bit, you’d realize it’s a pretty unique thing that we get to be a part of.”

            Agree 100% but what surprises me is that so few take advantage of the opportunity. A once in a life time chance and only a few thousand want to play, as many as say an average community in the RM. That says a lot about where our country is at today.

          • There are things in everyone’s life that others have not done and sometimes it does take lots of specifics to know this. That is what makes us individuals.

          • I’ve run into people while searching who have never heard of it, and that surprises me. Equally surprising are the people who live in the area, said they’ve heard of it, who then say they know exactly where it is!

            So of course, I ask, why don’t you go get it?

            “Oh, maybe next weekend I’ll have the time.”

            I don’t get those folks at all.

            I would be the most annoying Rocky Mountain resident if I lived out there. To quote Tommy Lee Jones in The Fugitive, I’d be on “a hard-target search of every gas station, residence, warehouse, farmhouse, henhouse, outhouse and doghouse in that area.”

            And once I made bail for trespassing, I’d be right back at it.

          • Nice to see you posting again, Jeremy. Any chance you’ll be at the FennFest?

          • When I lived in the Rockies I printed out dozens of the maps from TFTW and would give them out to friends and co-workers for fun. Some where so amazed by what looked like a treasure map they where willing to make deals just for a copy. First I stated low, 10% of what they find. Then I used my skills to see how much I could get from then (all of this for fun, I would haggle at Wal-Mart if they would let me) I moved up and up until I got someone to agree for 25% of there take. Not all were willing to deal and they got a map after the negotiation regardless of the deal. Other times I would leave the map in places I know people would find them like post offices, sidewalks, geocaches, old abandon attics or basements, and restrooms. Often I think of the adventures some may of had that found a map of Fenn’s that left behind or even maybe the Finder might be one of them. All of these were fun adventures I had without even searching for the chest.

          • Jeremy P
            That’s hard core, I don’t think I could break the law to go get it. Do you really think FF would put some one in that situation?

          • @The Count – that’s pretty creative. I like it! 🙂

            @JL – I don’t think he would and I’m exaggerating a little more than a little. If it’s on private land I won’t be the one to go get it.

          • It’s great to see the look in someone’s eyes when they know you have a genuine treasure map in your hand. One of the fun things about it is you get to put the X on the map.

        • @ Jeremy P
          I only asked because I have this one spot that could go either way a lot of the clues fit public land and a lot fit some private land in the area. Now if its on public I have no qualms, but in reality it belongs to the government or at least part of it. Now the private would belong to the landowner for sure, no question about it. That is unless the property was owned by FF and the poem actually gives you permission. Forest made it very clear he didn’t want anyone digging in his back yard so that scenario is unlikely.

          • @Randy,
            If “tarry scant” means private property – you better have owner’s permission to be there or you’d be subject to trespassing under the laws of that state; and the land owner would own the treasure. The only work arounds I’ve found would be:
            1. public road easements
            2. trails dedicated for public use by the owner. In Montana those trails typically have a designated number of feet that hikers/bikers may be off the trail without trespassing.
            3. Stream access “below the normal high water mark”
            4. If On Forrest’s personal property – you still need his permission.

            Please note these are my opinions; and I’ve only researched Montana, National Park law, Forrest service, State park lands, and BLM laws. No idea regarding other states. NM is complicated due to Spanish Land Grants.

      • How far is too far to walk? 85 miles. The poem tells you that. If you get the alpha numerical values correct – that line tells you. So 84 miles is not too far to walk and it is (2) 42’s.

          • Not Far but Too Far To Walk is referring to a ‘walk through time’. we are supposed to be looking for specific “markers”, or evidence of geographical time. If you understand stanzas 1-4, you will know what you are looking for.

          • I agree and disagree but we are operating under completely different premises so that is not a surprise. You think there are clues in the first stanza. As we have discussed before I usually start my clues where it says “begin”… usually.

            But in the event you change your mind on that or anyone else is of a same thought. I like the idea of time being too far to walk, that said, it is not the only thing that is too far to walk to and I can think of no reason I could not be both at least in my instance. I am unsure of yours.

            The idea of timing comes up in a few other places in the poem. The obvious one being: “Look QUICKLY down” any other word would have done fine there in my opinion but QUICKLY implies urgency. And unless the chest or its marker is moving or only visible under specific circumstances I can see no reason to be in a hurry.

            I think you are at least partially right about this despite the gulfs of difference between the rest of our solves.

          • Dys- are you referring to stars as being too far to walk? I have not completely given up on the possibility of a star connection I’ve talked before abt the Native Americans measuring time by use of the stars and moon. I don’t think that is out of the realm of possibility that there is a star connection in this poem. I doubt we have to hike to the TC at any specific time but there are places where the sun, moon and stars align with geographical features or Native American evidence.There is more than one meaning to to this poem and I think I’m making serious progress on one layer of meaning but there is more to understand.

          • I don’t ever just have one solve. As far as stars go I’d say that is a possibility I have considered but it always seems forced in the end.

            All I am saying is that there is no such thing as “too far to walk” unless you are on a time table. There are places that are impossible to walk to (such as stars, the horizon, straight up, underwater, tomorrow, exc. but that has nothing to do with how far they are.

          • I do not believe “Look quickly down” is an action we must do. I think the words mean something else. At first I thought that to look quickly meant to glance. There is more than one meaning to glance that could apply. But then I realized that another meaning of look quickly is to peek. Could this be referring to a peak?

          • Dys,
            It’s been a pleasure reading your comments.
            You are hitting the nail right on the head in just about everything you say.
            Keep going, your heading in the right direction IMO.

          • Still going out on the 3rd? I was due to head out yesterday. It would have been nice to pause between searches and meet another hunter. We if I recall would have been within relatively close proximity. Unfortunately actual adult responsibility reared its ugly head and ill have to postpone until mid summer if not even longer. If you do happen across it before I get there make sure to rub it in real good so I can regret being an adult for the rest of my life :).

          • No Dys,
            Plans to go in a couple of weeks. Montana – The Treasure State –
            Gallatin National Forrest to the Madison’s.

            It’s a double edged sword.
            I will not put my crow pie in the oven till I get back.

          • I’ve been saying Montana since May last year and have made 4 trips there but I feel like I’m talking in circles! Will be going on one final adventure this July. I really hope someone finds it before then in another spot!

          • I guess I got it crossed with another searcher in the same area.

            So roughly the same area. down the madison and firehole rivers. Like so many before us. I’m sure you have some unique take on it, I know I wouldn’t go there if I didn’t.

            Not sure when Ill finally make it but likely later than you. I have several potential solves but my favorite sounds like its just out of your search area so I won’t sweat it too much. That said however I have 5-6 at least that are in there so I really really mean it when I say you have to rub it in really good. I want to know if fate conspired to shortchange me.

            If I recall you don’t think tftw is a clue… so that puts no place for the meek as your 4th clue? To bring it back on topic. I think depending on your count most people lose their way between clues 3-6 (not implying that they have the others right just that this is where it starts to go wrong) so I hope you have solid HoB and NPFTM.

          • Dys,
            My last trip I went swimming in the Firehole near Ojo but was an experience I will never forget & cherish for the rest of my life.
            This time I found a word that is key that takes me out of the park.
            No place for the meek is in the park & is my 4th clue.

            You said: “I want to know if fate conspired to shortchange me.”
            Fate has nothing to do with someone finding the treasure but I would say there was obviously luck involved for the creator of this considering his history.

            No, I don’t think too far to walk is a clue considering the title of his book.
            Yes, most people lose there way around this place only to end up 200′ away from it on another day apparently.

            I have no idea what HOB is.
            I only think I know where it is & that’s more important to me.

          • What I mostly meant about fate conspiring against me is if you find the chest in one of the locations I was going to check but I got delayed and that would have been the only reason you got there first. Not implying that someone got there simply by fickle fortune rather than attention and understanding, I think that is highly unlikely.

            That said it sounds like you have decided to move on perhaps there is no overlap. For what it’s worth I don’t like any solution I have heard or thought up for the HoB only ones that are less terrible.

            On the topic of key words and places already being checked. There is a word that is in my mind linked to something that is commonly held to be a clue. People often cut that part off… even dal because the intention seems obvious despite how odd and out of tone the whole of the phrase is when it is included.

            If I’m right Ill bet the top double eagle that you could have a picnic nearly (if its hidden in the trees or grass) or right on top of the chest (if it is buried) and never know it. I think this is why people have been 200ft or closer, and even seen the blaze I’d bet but did not recognize it for what it is.

            Much like puzzled and his idea of “I” the context of something many assume is completely different when a different understood meaning is applied. Its so good I would actually be disapointed were it not related. It seems to make a point of great confusion rather clear.

            Speaking of disappointing solves. On a lark (I have always been in the northern states camp) while traveling through NM I took a detour to have a look along the rio grande. Just up “rio pueblo de taos” (my home of brown) On the mountian side there is a 6 pointed star symbol (apparently a pictogram for fire in some native cultures) carved into a large black rock. I looked under it, inside it and down from it after wading across the very cold rio pueblo de taos. Looking down there was this absolutely picturesque outcropping. I cannot express how perfect a spot for treasure this seemed to be like it looked as if it needed a treasure chest’ a magic sword or someone to hold the new prince of lions up for display purposes from it or something.

          • I think picnics are out Dys.

            “The treasure is not in a tunnel someplace, … I tell them not to do what a 79, 80 year old man couldn’t do”
            “It’s not something that somebody’s going to do on spring break or Sunday afternoon picnic, I’m looking a hundred years down the road maybe a 1,000 years down the road, people don’t understand that, I think. Somebody could find the TC this afternoon or it could be 500 years.”

            But I will be bringing some beer spray & bear necessities.

          • just a figure of speech, I don’t think anyone is picnicking in any of the places I’m talking about. Camping… possibly but doubtful. Fishing probably.

            And not a tunnel, but he has been rather cagey about weather or not it was buried or just under a rock for that matter. It would be a great way to prevent an accidental finding. And unless someone had all the parts just right they would never think to dig in an exact spot. He said it would not be an accident and that is a hard thing to guarantee. But even if not burred I think its incredibly easy to overlook, I’d not be surprised to find out that people were looking right at it but it was behind a shrub or under a rock or something.

          • what? did you think I would give more away than that? Not until I know I’m wrong.

          • I think it means crossing two bridges. “A bridge too far”. Bridge=far ; two bridges =too far

        • Hello 42. I’m a little confused. Are you suggesting one needs to drive 42 or 84 miles to reach this specific destination? If walking…no, it couldn’t be.

          How about not far (4), but too far (24) or 2X4=8? Hmmm. Or, 2 that are by 4? A 2X4 can also be a measurement of a board/wood/lumber, with a length of 8′. I think I’m going back to the lumberyard and return this piece of lumber I just dragged out. 🙂

          • Pdenver, I think they all apply. Here’s a fun “in the wood” we dined out last evening at Mission Ranch and Clint Eastwood “made our day” with an appearance. He doesn’t drive a Grand Torino though. Yep, we felt lucky

            See ya later.

          • Not 4, but 2 4 2 walk. 42 42 =84
            Or how about this, Not is -4 and but is except or besides which means in addition to so -4 + 242 = 238 miles. hmmm

        • Good morning Randy. Your interpretation holds as much water as any. IMO there are several applications which apply including flying.
          I was simply throwing out a quantifiable idea for distance.

          • I have used all or a combination of a great deal of these Ideas. there is one that I have not heard mentioned yet however that you may want to consider. A place name. More than once I’ve found spots on maps that have such names with references to distance or time very near a river.

            Just a thing to ponder.

        • Where are you getting the 85? And how are taking a leap from 85 to 84 (they are not the same number)? Finally, where in the poem does it say (85 – 1)/2 = magic number?

        • I have a pretty strong feeling I have the correct alpha/numeric, don’t see 85 miles though. Let me work with it a little. That line just tells me that 4 walk.
          To check, what do your alpha/numeric values add up to? Primary and secondary?

  40. Oh Yeah, HOB, WWWH, heavy loads and water high, no place for the meek, blaze, all there. The only thing that I don’t feel I have a good grasp of is “brave and in the wood”.

    • I would join you, Robert, but there is still too much snow on the ground above 8,000 ft. That leaves a large area within the 5k to 10.2k range unsearchable for me…and I need closer to 10k clear.

      Looking like July before I’ll be searching, based on weather and schedule.

      Do keep us posted!

      CJ

      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      Per Dal:
      What we are taking as fact:
      ♦Located above 5,000 ft and below 10,200 ft.

    • Perhaps its not a clue. It does come after “take the chest” if the clues must be followed in order i don’t see how anything after that line is a clue to find the chest.

      • So why is there two extra stanzas?

        Fenn stated; it would be unwise to discount any words in the poem… There are 58 words after “Just take the chest and go in peace”
        If there are no clue[s] in those stanzas, it seems fenn could have saved himself about 4 years of re-writes. exclude stanza 1 [ another 25 words ] as well, fenn could have finished the poem in a little over 7 years.
        [83 words out of 166 ]…. Does this raise a red flag for anyone else?

        For the math geeks out there… if stanza 2-3-4 is all the clues… why have 6 stanzas total, when half the poem is unused?

          • EC & Seeker,
            If you need the whole poem or nine lines or all the stanzas to lead you to the treasure, then why is it “blaze” is one clue?
            Now there are only 8 left to figure.
            Just one word……
            Is a clue…..

          • @Jake – I don’t have the answer to that or I feel I’d also have the chest. If I speculate, I’d say Fenn has hinted on MW there is something about the blaze that has further information “quickly down” on how to find the chest. Again, just my opinion, and I haven’t figured this part out inside of my forced solution.

          • Sorry Jake, agree with Seeker and E.C., the word “blaze” is not the clue, it’s the whole blaze that you’re looking for. Wise will fit, marvel gaze will fit, looking down on the blaze will fit with something you take, which is line 16. Don’t take the chest, see hest. Then put “and go” in the word “peace”.
            p-a-g-e-n-o-a-d-c-e.
            Just take the (see hest) page 133=
            two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.
            Line 17 = Sowyst, looks like southwest to me, still have some more to go after the blaze. Line 20 will tell you how far. Congrats, you are now at “X”.
            Hint: you could have used the Wyoming medicine wheel to also get you there. Side note: dig three feet at “X” to find a ‘bell”.:) oh yea, IMO.

          • Forrest: “I doubt that anyone will find the blaze before they have figured out the first clue.” f
            Put your head phones on & plug them into your digital machine Charlie.
            Forrest: “So hear me all and listen good”
            Not a clue.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_fPF8Gc1I8
            How To Find Fenn’s Million-Dollar Treasure. Sept 8 2015
            “I think the problem that searchers make is they don’t dwell long enough on the first clue. If you can’t find the first clue, you don’t have anything. I mean there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues.
            To me this hints the “blaze” is the last clue considering he mentions the first.

            What did he say?
            “Looking for a blaze”
            NOT: looking for the blaze.
            “because that’s one of the clues.”

            Just watch & listen to the video & I think you will agree that he gave us one of the clues to be figured out.

          • No he did not give a clue there. It wouldn’t matter if he had because unless you start at the beginning and understand the poem one word or phrase or stanza at a time, you can’t solve it. Why is everybody so hung up with identifying clues randomly out of order? Just start at the beginning and work through the poem a little at a time. Focus on the key word. Figure out who/what “I” is and what “I” is saying. Then it won’t matter what words are hints and what each clue is. You have to understand the poem in its entirety!
            I am absolutely certain. (Imo of course)

          • Certainty begs the question, when you will go pick up the chest? Do you have a planned date to bring indulgence home?

          • I’ve made a lot of progress but have a few lines in stanzas 5 & 6 that I need to work though. Waiting until I can go with confidence.

          • Puzzled: “No he did not give a clue there.”
            Really?
            So you didn’t see the video or you just ignore what he said.
            OK, fine.
            Good luck with that!

          • I don’t know that BLAZE is a clue. Yes, you need to find it. That is clear to everyone. But can we call it a clue? And what difference does it make if it is a clue, a series of clues, a hint or just a blaze. FF made it clear that the only thing that matters is that you figure out what the poem means. If you can walk through the poem confidently, it doesn’t matter what the clues or hints are. All that matters is understanding the poem. I’m not looking for clues. I refuse to count them. I am understanding the poem.

          • @Puzzled – you’ve definitely puzzled me with your interpretations. I look forward to reading your trip report, solution, and how you’re unwinding it all.

          • Puzzled: “I don’t know that BLAZE is a clue.”
            You are contradicting what Forrest said.
            It tells me you are not a good listener.

          • Jake- or I listened carefully! FF has a knack for getting people to believe he said something that it didn’t actually say. I didn’t say blaze wasn’t a clue. I just said it doesn’t matter what the clues or hints are. All that matters is understanding the poem.

          • Ill drink to that (then again Ill drink to almost anything) I wonder sometimes if people focusing on counting clues misleads them or forces them to make things fit.

            If you followed all the directions and are where you are supposed to be at the end of a stanza why does it matter if you crossed off 3 clues or 4. And if you get to the end and combined what forrest sees as two separate ideas into single clue that sounds like a great way to blow right past something because you are looking for the next step based on a miscount.

            Alternatively if you break up an idea into separate parts that fenn felt was a single clue you might discount something further along and fall short rather than blow past the mark.

            Its a useful guide to say that their are 9 clues and it is definitely a true statement but realize that this count may be (as we have frequently demonstrated) subject to personal preference and opinion. Including fenns own opinions and preferences.

          • Oh Puzzled,
            “FF has a knack for getting people to believe he said something that it didn’t actually say.”
            This is very true. I have seen it throughout the chase.
            But when Forrest says something that is direct without the maybes, if’s, but’s like he stated about the blaze, you have to believe what he has said & I do.
            After my second trip I decided to throw all the material out & start over with just the facts & that’s where I am now.
            Does it mean I am closer to the treasure? No.
            Does it mean I am closer to the way he thinks? Yes.

            I’m not sure why you wouldn’t count the clues & don’t want to know the real reason.
            He told us there are 9 clues in the poem that would lead to the treasure & trying to figure out which words these are is paramount.

          • I think I misread Fenn’s statement on the blaze. But,whether the blaze is a clue or not doesn’t matter in the least if you don’t work through the entire poem. I’m working to understand the entire poem. That is why I don’t count clues. Because I’m working on understanding the entire poem.

          • Jake who claims the Blaze is a single clue?
            ‘Is the blaze a single object… in a word Yes.’
            Yet is a object is of many pieces it is still a single object.

            Is a vehicle a single object… ?

        • Seeker is right. All six stanzas are essential. And if you figure out “I”, then “I” will help you find your way.

          • Are all the stanzas essential to lead you to the treasure?
            If so, why is one word a clue with over a hundred words to divy up to the other 8?

          • “I” is so simple once you figure it out. (Imo). It gives clarity to the poem

          • Don’t know what you are saying Jake. I have the first clue, along with the 2nd,3rd,blaze(and it’s different meanings, 5th,6th,7th,8th, and 9th…thought you knew this already.

        • So there are a few words that are not necessary per f in the poem for finding the chest; is there a point in solving the poem that one becomes wise enough to know which words those “few” are?

          Obviously it is not when you are trying to figure out the first clue… and probably the second.

          • lol, puzzled, about two weeks. I said I have all the clues, not that they are all right…

        • I have to say the phrase false dichotomy a great deal. But I shall say it one more time. Something does not have to be a clue to be useful nor does the inverse necessarily apply.

          You assume because something is not a clue it is unused but I never said that, and it would be foolish to think it.

          There are 9 clues that will lead you to the chest sure but all information is power. Those “extra” stanzas give context, tone rhythm and insight into fenns way of thinking even if they are not clues that is not the same thing as being useless.

      • @Dys – perhaps he’s referring to “chest” as a synonym / homonym / or both?

        I like “ark” / “arc” here because it fits my forced solution.

        • You actually gave me a moments pause. Its not often someone hits me with something truly unique like that. Not saying I think you may be right or wrong at this juncture but an interesting concept none the less. Kudos.

  41. jake – there is a a clue in the video – a good clue you just have to know what to look for and to me it had nothing to do with the blaze imo

  42. Just speculation, but what if he doesn’t literally mean water when he says “where warm waters halt”. Like maybe it’s an elaborate metaphor.

    • FF has said there is not a metaphor in the poem. However, I believe some of the hints he gives outside the poem are metaphors.

      • Someone else said that he said there were no metaphors. When I asked where, they pointed to a video where he was asked if it was “metaphysical”, which he says it isn’t. I think that gets mixed up sometimes.

        Poems without metaphors are nutrition labels. <– (example of a metaphor)

        • Nevermind, I found the interview you’re talking about. That’s in reference to the chest, not the poem.

  43. Puzzled

    Will you please provide the quote where FF has said:” there is not a metaphor in the poem.” I am unaware of this quote.

    Thank you.

    Good luck to all searchers, and STAY SAFE

    JD

    • Hi JD- WiseOne responded to Zvia’s Golden Research on this site, May 18, 2016. “Listen to the Richard Eads podcast dated September 14th, at about the 9:50 mark. Forrest said ‘forget the metaphors’ “. I was only referring to this quote.

      My own personal opinion about the poem is that I no longer believe it is a metaphor or simile. However, I strongly believe that FF does give metaphors in his hints. Mirrors and shadows are metaphors of something the poem is talking about. When I first looked up shadows, I learned that a shadow is an image of something, but not the thing its self. Mirrors also give an image of something. I didn’t see the significance until “I” told me WWWH.

      • I don’t understand the “I” reasoning at all, but I agree entirely with the rest of your comment.
        As ff said, the poem is straightforward. But that doesn’t mean some words aren’t used in versions many people don’t get without thinking and research.

        • Buckeye Bob, I believe you have to understand who “I” is, as in “I have gone alone in there”. I know it sounds like FF is speaking, but I think there is a double meaning. I believe, as do many other searchers, that “I” is someone or something else speaking (of course written by FF) I believe that when you figure out who/what “I” is, then it gives you a different interpretation or view of the poem. When I discovered who/what “I” is, all of a sudden I could understand the phrases better. It is all in the viewpoint of who is speaking.

          FF quoted from Kismet on p 14 of TTOTC. “To Caliph I am dirt, but to dirt I am Caliph.” Interestingly, FF also said, ” To an ant a mud puddle can be like an ocean. f ” So this led me to wonder what viewpoint “I” was seeing. And, when I knew, it was like the whole poem made more sense. Remember that FF told us that only a few are in “tight focus with a word that is key”. Think about “tight focus”

          • Ahh, ok, now I understand some of the things being said and talked about.
            I think I know your “I” now. Or someone’s, at any rate.

            I’ll get into it and see what I see.
            Thanks.

            p.s. I already have a solve that looks good and I’m not likely to change from it. So don’t worry that I’ll figure out your solve and beat you to it.
            Not that I wouldn’t switch if mine doesn’t pan out, but that gives you this year as a head start. And that’s only if I’m on your meaning here. 😉 Thanks again for explaining.

          • While I have considered that and even pontificated on that point with others perhaps a quirk of my thinking or of yours it never seemed relevant. It could be any number of things but I sort of already look at things from multiple perspectives.

            Also my word that is key is different. Not saying that it rules anything else out.

            But a few rhetorical quandaries if you will:

            Do you first think this is unique, Like perhaps no more than a few will have made this discovery as you have?

            Do you think this is one of the 9 clues and if it is, is it one of the first two? (Ill assume if the first part is true then you think it is the 1st clue. but we know what happens when we assume)

            And finally If you think this is unique, is a clue and is one of the first ones how then do you reconcile it with the statements made by fenn: “I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several.” or “Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues.”

            By no means am I suggesting that you need to stay on any sort of bandwagon but I think the point for jumping off it at this juncture is far later in the solve.

          • Dys- as you know, I don’t count clues. However, if I were counting clues, I’m not sure that “I” is a clue. At this point, I think it isn’t. But I do think it helps you to understand some things in the poem. I believe it is highly possible to find the first two clues,without understanding “I”, but I wonder if the lack of understanding is what keeps people from recognizing other clues, walking right by them without realizing it. There are layers in the poem that need to be understood in order to get past the first two clues. (Imo).

          • Fair enough, and a wise approach overall in my opinion. I think we should avoid counting clues unless absolutely necessary.

            True fact: Nearly 100% of dead people have counted something in their lives. I’m not saying counting is going to kill you, I am saying we might want to play it safe.

            (I’m just being weird not making fun of you for the record)

          • Puzzled then how will you know how many crows make a good pie or stew? Or do you plan on not needing any crows? You must be very confident 🙂

          • Not confident yet spallies. So don’t worry, I won’t be collecting the chest just yet. It’s where FF placed it as far as I know. It’s waiting for you. 🙂

    • JD. It’s a misquote, IMO. The interviewer is joking and asking FF if the TC is real or whether it’s just a broad metaphor. FF answers using the language from the original question and says there are no metaphors and the TC is real. In context, FF is clearly talking about the actual existence of the TC and not the clues in the poem.

  44. Puzzled – IMO you are on the correct track. Finally, I’m going to be able to get out there and see if thoughts are correct. Been waiting since March due to Denver snow closure and heavy snow in mountains.

    Everyone Good Luck and Stay Safe!

  45. Sometimes you need to reevaluate. Mr. Fenn has said read the blogs for fun. I found this very important. So going back and eliminating all the questionable information from those trusty blogs, you will find inconsistencies throughout. Some of the information being pawned is laughable at best. Be careful with what’s meekly whispered. IMHO.

    • I agree straw,
      Maybe there should be a disclaimer: This site is for entertainment purposes only.
      I hope this doesn’t get me into trouble.
      There is actually some treasure seeking facts here. The poem is here or are you just talking about heresay?
      I do tend to trust the videos the most.

      I got this thing for Meek. I think he got shortchanged in history.
      He should have received more credit for the places he discovered, trapped & hunted.
      Maybe because his name means timid. This man was far from meek.
      Let’s get a petition going to rename Yellowstone National Park to: No Place For The Meek Caldera.

    • I think that a lot of the reason that it is hard to get to the real nitty gritty on here is that everyone is protecting the hard won information to their own solves. I’m guilty of that. Being subdued can lead to dull repetitions and meek whispers. I cannot dedicate anymore of my precious moments to BOTG. I am all ready for some real conversation, Straw. I promise to salt your words. Question. How many of you think, as I do, in the sentence ‘It’s no place for the meek’ It’s means ‘it has’ and not ‘it is’?

          • “From there it’s (It IS) no place for the meek, The end is ever drawing nigh;” (sic)

            Having just left the hoB – the next place that I encounter on my ROAD trip to the END” is “No place for the meek”.

            I have indicated before that the NAME of the next place that I encounter is No place that the meek would enjoy.

            That is about as much as I am willing to offer at this point…although it is quite a lot!

            Good luck to all searchers, and STAY SAFE

            JD

        • Hi, Jake. All in my opinion. Yes. I do not think that ‘it’ continuously stands for the same thing in the poem. Just like when people are talking, the word ‘it’ is used often to describe something just mentioned. I believe that the word it is used this way in the poem as well. ‘Begin it’ and ‘take it’ are probably referring to the same thing. ‘It is’ or IMO ‘it has’ is referring to something else.

          • In English two things, in another language one thing that means both. I apologize for sounding confusing It’s just the way I see it. IMO

          • Hello strawshadow. You have me curious with your comment. Do you feel the “it” is a person or thing, since the “place” is already in the sentence? Perhaps, “it” is the location and/or journey?

          • Hello strawshadow. Thank you for responding. I greatly appreciate it. With your explanation, I’ll have to see what you’re seeing.

          • Hello alopes. You’ve caught my curiosity. How did you make a connection with “birds and plants” with “it is”?

          • Hi pdenver. I was talking a guess about the two things that Strawshadow has mentioned. There is something that is similar in my area. Two meanings in English, bird and plant( but a specific type of both) and has meaning in another language.

        • I’ll try and explain a little better. Of course, IMO. When you are at a certain spot(or place), that spot(or place) has a spot of its own that is not for the meek. Example, a town that has a feature that is named for the town. The town of Shooby has a crazy tall cliff named Shooby Cliffs. Therefore, it-the town- has a no place for the meek-the cliffs.’ It is ‘no place for the meek can be applied to the cliffs also but’ it has’ is a verifier for me. IMO only.

  46. It reads, ‘ From there it’s no …’ it doesn’t say, go there. It could mean no place for the meek is nearby….

  47. New here, but not new to the chase. Everything I write is IMO. I take a more simplistic view of “No place for the meek”. If it is no place for the meek, then who is it for? Maybe the bold, or at least the bolder (boulder). I feel at this point the searcher should have found HoB and now have BOTG, The clues are getting more specific and this leads to a distinctive boulder on the left (nigh).

    • I like your thinking. We know ff likes double meanings. If it is no place for,the meek, then who is it for? Maybe the brave, or at least the Indian brave 🙂

  48. From there it is no place for the meek has no relevance until you have put in below the home of Brown. So looking ahead is useless for a clue s meaning.

    Montana Marv

    • Everything I write is IMO.

      I worked very hard on my solve for WWWH and HOB. I live far from my solve site, but an opportunity presented itself and I was able to get BOTG. As I arrived at my HOB, I was overwhelmed. The treasure could be anywhere within what I assumed to be about a 2-mile radius from where I was standing. I had some nebulous ideas on the remaining clues, but figured everything would be somewhat obvious and fall into place once I was actually there. Boy, was I wrong! After exploring for hours, I sat down with my pocket-sized, laminated copy of the poem and tried to figure out the remaining clues.
      As I perched there, watching the sun set on some of the most gorgeous country I’d ever seen, I realized something. I believe Mr. Fenn has said the clues do get easier. But the majority of searchers (after years) have yet to even identify WWWH. I am under the impression only a handful at best know HOB. And yet I figured I’d be able to solve everything else in a couple of days at my HOB.
      I went home treasure-less, but with a lesson learned. Even though it may be of little or no use, I will have multiple solves for the rest of the poem.
      So I agree, HOB is a primary and critical solve. But watching dusk fall on my own rare opportunity made me realize that no detail of solving this poem is too small.
      Do all your homework at home. It may useless, but on the other hand, it may bring you 200′ closer to the treasure than anyone else.

      Happy hunting and be safe out there.

  49. Sounds hauntingly familiar Bluegeyser…The world we live in is massive, and to narrow down one small 10″ x 10″ x 5″ area is mind blowing to say the least….good luck in the future and have a blast.

  50. What if it reads more like; ahead there is a place for the meek but don’t go that way. No (to the) place for the meek. Not that the other way is particularly dangerous or ominous, it’s just not Humble Mountain.
    Also meek can mean just following the crowd so; from there, get off the trail.

  51. IMO Forrest is saying DON’T go to the place that IS for the meek. He is NOT saying GO to the place that is NOT for the meek. Does that make sense? I’m convinced that when you put in below the HOB, you have three choices. Stop and search in the general area where you are now, go towards the right or go towards the left(nigh?). I don’t believe Forrest would waste words and say “no place for the meek” as a bear or mountain lion warning, or watch your step because it’s dangerous footing in the Rockies. I believe the poem points to a specific route by mentioning two routes that you should not take. To identify myself, I am a flatlander from the east coast – the elevation in my driveway is 10 feet, like Leadville, CO except without the three zeroes at the end, have made a couple other comments on this site and have made one BOTG search (a rookie, yes?) My wife and I will need an O2 tank for our next walk in the woods!

    • Rather than O2, I find an oxygen concentrator easier to manage. Dragging along a tank is cumbersome – Most
      Inogen concentrastors can be rented at your medical supply.

      Good luck in your search and STAY SAFE

      JD

  52. Not, to brag, but I am 90% sure that I have pinned the location down to a very small (perhaps football sized) area. Every clue fits easily into my solution—no fighting to make them fit. The problem is, the area is 1,500 miles away—I was there once. And I am old and from sea-level—I was worn out walking even the short distance it required. But the main problem is that the area is shown as “private” and did require ducking under one fence… That bothered me. The final clue with the blaze is rather ambiguous too, so I am still not sure about it, but I am nearly positive I was within a stone’s throw from it. All the terms in the poem fit seamlessly together—tricky like riddles can be, but nothing cheaty. I will try again before I throw in the towel. Not sure if he is playing a game on everyone or not, but it is worth one more attempt. Too bad you can’t share what might be vital information without destroying your own hopes…

    • @John, share away. Statistically speaking, I found that everyone here has their own view and will find a thousand reasons why yours is way off. If the treasure is where you believe it to be, your solution is safe in the public eye.

  53. E.C. Waters. I wish to make one more journey before I give up on it and post my ideas about it. I will say this though… The solution is all perfectly straight forward. It almost seems too easy once you figure it out. The big trick is to find the right starting point, and I was lucky to be looking in the right area to figure that out. Luck and logic. If nothing comes of my next trip around Sept or so, I will give up an post my ideas. If you saw the place, it would seem even more likely—a true hidden Paradise where one should not exist…

  54. John I’m Jon….don’t give up! I’m going to return to the place I think it is soon but all seekers need to keep believing and seeking! And it is way bigger than a football field. Too Far too Walk!

  55. Jon… Part of me wishes to scream out the answers, because they seem so obviously right when you think you know them, but I wish to check a bit later, one final time—if I can’t find it then, then I should give up because my area IS relatively small in area at the end, but with other difficulties you can’t imagine… I will say this: Everything about the riddle links together easily…step-by-step, but he is tricky with all of it. and in some cases what might seem obvious is slipped in to throw you off, when in reality you need to find other more obscure meanings to his words. It is all very clever—nothing cheaty, and when it all comes together for you, you KNOW it has to be right, and seeing the fantastic hidden place only makes it more obvious… September, I should give it one last try.

    • Good luck in September John. I KNOW the feelings that you are having when you KNOW that you have solved it!

      Again, Good luck, and TRY to STAY SAFE

      JD

      • Puzzled. I hope to have good news to share, but even thinking I have to be right in my thinking, I have some doubts about the very end result. We shall see. One way or another, it will be my last try at that area…

          • Been out for awhile…I see JD is a safe guy..I like that….to all seekers, If you do not have the blaze figured out, it is almost impossible…you should have a good idea of that before heading out!

    • “if I can’t find it then, then I should give up because my area IS relatively small in area at the end, but with other difficulties you can’t imagine” John, there should be no “other
      difficulties” you can’t imagine. FF parked and walked to the secreted spot; no dangers involved. Safe, but what is safe?

      • Debi, I don’t want to give too much away until I check things out one last time. I can’t afford to keep running 1,500 miles across country all the time, but it does warrant checking out one more time because things DO fit so seamlessly. There are difficulties that can’t be seen from aerial views or topo maps. That doesn’t make the difficulties dangerous, just unexpected. Imagine an area with dense willows you can’t even get though, or a marshy area where you sink to your knees, or a place where hundreds of trees are down… The problem with this area is similar… No real dangers, unless you are careless, but it does make it difficult to pin down. And, yes, I know there is supposedly a “blaze” to help pin things down, but that only works up to the general area… You look down from the blaze upon… A big mess.

        • John, I appreciate your confidence. It kinda
          reminds me of the way I feel these days.

          I believe that FF has indicated that the poem, if correctly solved, would lead one right to the treasure.

          You may want to review your solve; I have some
          doubt about your blaze being the “correct” one.

          I was able, from home, to go online and see what
          looks (to me) like the “correct” blaze, after I had
          decided that all the earlier clues made sense to
          me.

          Imagination? Check.

          Show the poem to a child? . . . I didn’t do that, but I pretended that I was one . . . In fact, I even
          pretended that I was a ten-year-old child living in
          1940 (in an effort to simulate FF’s environment
          when he was ten . . . I think it helped!) . . .

          I’m planning to put BOTG soon, and will be driving about 1200 miles one way to get to the
          location (near HoB) where I start hiking.

          The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

          Good luck to you. Please be safe.

          • Andrew Jeff, I don’t have the quote, but I recall FF saying the blaze cannot be seen on Google earth. So unless you are referring to somewhere else online, you probably should rethink that blaze. Personally, I think the poem tells us what the blaze is.

          • Puzzled – I think that you are wrong on this one. Forrest said that you could not see the treasure using GE because it did not go that far down. I personally believe that you can see the blaze using GE, but what do I know? NADA – JDA

          • And this is why I should have looked up the actual quote instead of going by memory which apparently was wrong. Thanks for catching that.

    • Hey John JD Jake Puzzled
      What state did you search in? And why Sept? Why not end of July or in August? I’m just asking cause I know of only one thing that would be effected by the months of the year.
      I’m trying to get back out myself but my wife wants to come again and she was supposed to be retired August 31 but now the postal people tell her not till Sept. 30 so she doesn’t lose 500 dollars a month. So it is what it is. Sept 30th now. then I’ll be thinking of coming out again.
      Timothy A

      • Timothy – Most know I will be searching in Wyoming, this Friday and Saturday.

        Good luck on your search in Sept/October – That is, unless I am super lucky this week-end

        JD

      • Timothy A- I have had four solves in the works; two in Wyoming and two in Colorado. I think I figured out WWWH last week and that means I need to rework my solves. Basically starting over with a better idea of WWWH, and HOB. I think the “big picture” Fenn referred to in an interview question is the picture of the water cycle. I really think “I” in the poem is WATER.

      • Timothy A,
        Be patient, I think the chest will still be there in August.
        The one thing I see is the height of the water in the creeks & June was not the right time for us.

      • Timothy… I picked September as a traveling date for two basic reasons. 1. I first checked the area in early June and I need some time to get my exploring juices stirred up again. 2. Some water issues I had, might be less by Sept. I hadn’t heard of the Fenn treasure until a few months ago, and I came up with this place before I read anything on-line—I didn’t wish to be influenced by others… I can’t imagine a better fit, but maybe that is just me…I’ll either find it in Sept., which I doubt, or I will at least post my ideas and let others see what they think…

      • Timothy A…an early congratulations to your wife on her upcoming retirement from the Post Office… and I imagine she has started the countdown!

        Searching in the fall is beautiful…as long as the snow doesn’t fly!

  56. Thanks JD. If it comes to nothing, I will at least post my thoughts. It is not hard to get to, but the elevation plays hell on some of us from sea level… I DO wish to share what I know, if for no other reason that to see if I have blinded myself by it all, but I need to check it out one more time…

  57. Flatlanders——
    Call your doctor, or quick clinic. There are a couple pills you can take for altitude. My doctor takes them when he goes to the mountains. You start taking them 24 hours ahead of your trip and for a few days.

    Besides preventing altitude sickness, they work like “uppers” for me. I walk for miles with only short rest stops and I feel like a bear would be unlucky to cross my path.

  58. I’ve been pondering the phrase “no place for the meek” a lot the past few weeks….wondering what purpose it serves….as I reflect, I have been thinking that it means “no place for the shy, tame, or submissive.” And, therefore, I interpret that it IS a place for the WILD….(perhaps Wild and Scenic Rivers reference).

    • Jessie,
      How do you connect this with the next part… the end is ever drawing nigh?
      Or there’ll be no paddle up your creek?

      There seems to be some reference to opposite meanings.. just like your example. So would the line the end… be as well?

      Or do you think the coma separates each part of the sentence as individual clues?

      Just trying to get a perspective.

      • In response to,
        Or do you think the coma separates each part of the sentence as individual clues?

        Seeker, Hope you don’t mind me jumping in on this post, it may give you a different perspective, and maybe I’ll get some feedback.

        Coming from the 9 sentences, 9 clues theorist. (each sentence gives you a clue to where to start, not each sentence is a clue). The clues together will give you the starting point.

        The use of the “;” makes stanza 3 one long sentence. This stanza resolves to produce a clue(a noun). So, first time through, because of the commas, i think each line give you a word or phrase.
        Example:
        Stanza 3, line 1 = Hell, (no place for the meek)
        line 2 = death,
        line 3 = dry creek,
        line 4 = water fall,
        The clue = ? ( i think each sentence clue will help you with the next sentence clue. So out of context these won’t make sense. This makes you start at the beginning.)

        Once you solve all the sentence clues and have the starting point then you must follow the poem again starting at “BIWWWH”. This stanza is then just part of the step by step instructions. it will make sense when you know where you are.

        Hope this helped at least giving you a different perspective.

  59. a funny moment shared..

    I was recounting an historical record to my son, concerning a group of New York workmen who were hired as lumberjacks within the wilds of the Rockies,

    once it was discovered that progress was slow, unqualified locals were then sought (more suited to the nature of the task) to replace said workmen.

    my son looks at me with profound astonishment..

    “Dad! .. no place for the meek?”

    ..I laughed even harder once I realised that his theory couldn’t honestly be discounted.
    🙂

  60. In my opinion, NO PLACE FOR THE MEEK is relative to the context of the several other statements around it in the poem including (among other statements);
    not far but too far to walk,
    put in below the home of BROWN,
    end is ever drawing nigh
    and there’ll be no paddle up your creek.
    All these statements describe the area near WWWH as well as the process of how to ameliorate walking a long roundabout path to the TC (which is “close” as the crow flies). The unsuitability of walking the long way is compounded if you carry a wooden canoe and a treasure chest as well as a sandwich and a flashlight/bearspray. When FF says that two people have been within 200 feet or 500 feet (and there are no human “trails” in close proximity), that does NOT mean that thousands of people have not been within 500 feet of the chest in their vehicles.

    NO PLACE FOR THE MEEK means paddle with gusto or you will be carried by the stream by the exit where you will begin walking again. When you return to the canoe you will be IN THE WOOD where questions of land ownership are typically moot if your anchor is up.

    Always ask the owner before you ever step foot on private property and this includes shore lines!!

    • mf

      when you suggest the possibility of thousands of people being within 500 feet of the chest in their vehicles, are you also suggesting that a road is somehow exempt from being a ‘human trail’?

      It has also occurred to me as a slim possibility, that the 200/500′ comment may refer to vertical distance rather than horizontal. Could it have been Forrests clever attempt at a red-herring?

      I may be totally wrong on both questions, but am happily cursed with a natural curiosity all the same.

      • Or what about the other way around? I have been 500 horizontal feet from something but over 1000 feet in elevation. It takes miles of hiking or driving to cover that distance. It’s not far, but too far to walk.
        Also what is close proximity? Maybe 10-50 feet, not necessarily 200-500 feet. If a golf ball landed 200 feet from me on the golf course I wouldn’t think a golf ball landed in close proximity to me. However if a meteorite hit 200 feet from me, I’d need to change my shorts.

    • mensan –

      Keep in mind that Forrest said – no special equipment needed. That to me would be a raft, canoe, ropes, wet suits, and anything you normally would not take on a hike. I must admit I did take a shovel – but was thinking he didn’t consider it special. I could be so wrong. I do not believe a river crossing unless on a man made bridge, would be involved. Forrest is well aware of what a sudden flash flood can do. It does not even have to be raining where you are to suddenly be in one. It can rain miles up stream and hit with out you knowing. He has also stated it is not in a dangerous place, so no rock climbing – no walking on frozen lakes – just common sense.

  61. When I first started developing my “Solve”, once I had figured out wwwh, the canyon down, NFBTFTW and hoB, I was stumped for a couple of days until I spotted the name of a mountain, the name of a basin, and the name of a creek – all possessing the same word or name – all within a few miles of my hoB. This NAME is a name that the meek would not take pleasure in, although they might get some pleasure out of, IF they were willing to try it.

    Hope that this helps someone. Good luck to all searchers, and TRY to STAY SAFE JDA

  62. I believe that the solution to this clue is really, seriously, no place for the meek.

    Not that you just happen to be out in the Rockies, which has inherent dangers everywhere, but rather something very, very specific that you need to be brave to do, or to be.

    But, most importantly, you DO NOT need to actually do it. You don’t need to scale the steep or tread the deep. Forrest has conveyed many times that he would not expect or require you to do something that extreme in order to retrieve the chest.

    Rather, you need to understand “no place for the meek”, the place for the brave, in order to follow the contiguous clues that precede and follow this clue and are attached to it.

    And I believe this same understanding occurs more than once in the poem, wherein you need to understand the solution to the clue, but not necessarily actually do it, and I would also say not actually BE there.

    No place for the meek points the way, in my view, but there are no physical risks to get it, you just need the thinking about it…

    Halogetter

  63. I said a couple months ago that I would show what I feel HAS to be the solution after I searched for it one last time this month… I have had fate step in for the moment though— The need to see if and when I might be called as a witness in court. Kind of messes things up at the moment, but hopefully I can escape in a couple weeks…

    Anyway, I DO think I am right about my solution—at least 95% of it… Too many things fit like a glove to have it be entirely wrong. Just wanted to say that I did not BS about sharing my solution this month after my trip if it gets me nothing… Just stalled for the moment by things beyond my control.

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