The Nine Clues…Part Sixty-Six


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This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

746 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…Part Sixty-Six

  1. Pandora, I did a double take on your Raynolds post, I did not remember posting that….

    • Today, went back to my notes and my interpretations of clues. I have been studying the art connection for the last 3 years. There is so much to learn and many hidden secrets in art. It has been like that for thousands of years. So how do you find it in art? Well, it does take a lot of research and thought. Its how you look at it and what appeals the person who can identify there own connection. Look at famous art and its mysterious strokes of genius.

      The Poem is art and a architect an artist.
      Today, there was a twist in what I have been looking at. Why have I found 9 pieces of art in the Poem? What is The Poem trying to tell me. What am I looking at? Why these 9 pieces of art? Where is the final solve located?

      It seems the Poem gives one a method in math. It was odd and I started to look deeper to what it meant. Then I started to look at the Poem again, and I seen that it was also giving me instructions to what to do with the art.

      The twist here is it came up with a piece of art. When I seen it and I was wondering why isn’t it signed. Is it a fake? What if it was produced by the master and the place that has it doesn’t know. So many questions in my direction that the answers are known.

      I think someone said , I think that idea is a stroke of genius.

      Mark: 635

      Oh yeah, Just my opinion because it is free.

  2. I’ll throw out some ideas:
    IMO, the poem includes 9 clues in consecutive order; one example is “where warm waters halt”.
    IMO the poem includes about a dozen hints in addition to the clues; one example is “gone alone in there”.
    IMO, TTOTC includes about a dozen hints “not deliberately placed to aid the searcher”; one example is the photo of F seated in the cockpit of his plane.
    IMO, many other hints exist, from the map in TFTW (sometimes referred to as a clue) to the hints released to national media, to hints in scrapbooks and on blogs.
    I’m just happy that it is just “difficult, but not impossible” to find TC.
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • spallies,
      So are you at 8 3/4?
      IMO, number 9 may be just a bit more difficult.
      “Have flashlight, will travel”

      • Ha Ha….. no I almost got spot # 9 on the “New nine Clues” thread….

        Wasn’t sure if we count peoples respones under others so I may or may not have been comment # 9…

        lol did you think I was saying I almost had all nine clues figured out 🙂 Yes, I am sure you are right the last clue is probably really hard…

        • funny I thought the clues were suppose to get easier toward the end

  3. For haters, I wish to propose clue Number 9 is at dead center of the lower square in Strawberry Fields, Colorado Springs. Here’s why:

    Following the clues of the poem, draw a walking path starting at Ramona Falls up to HHJ marker, then the chest (ark -> arc) out to Old Stage Road… then overlay a circle with a pi line to the center onto the bottom (“pie” in Spanish) square of the public property on Strawberry Fields. The outcome path looks like Omega Omega. Stay with me.

    The Fenn joke is Alpha Omega, a pirated album set from the 70s. Sound familiar? Fenn sold bootleg art, full disclosure to the buyer of course. This is why the pirate theme and wwwh with La Buse. One can classify all content given by Fenn to these statistical categories (in order of relevance): 1) Beatles content, 2) content related to a specific clue location, 3) personal interests outside of 1 or 2 including family stuff from us, 4) Entropy (almost insignificant relative to combined others).

    Fenn did not say “everything you need is in the poem.” He said “all you need is the poem.” That’s a Beatles hint. Not a literal. If you want literal, read “Life is a Dream” by Calderon… Then look up Strawberry Fields and Calderstones. This is also a joke.

    I’m back in COS. Flew thru bad weather. I started a guesstimate center today and spiraled out. I found an old busted up Sega motherboard. Form your own opinions, but I think I’m in the vicinity. See pics on my Twitter @mikebibler. Yeah, another safe. What the… I hate polluting safe thieves.

    I’m seeking perfect center. Want to help? Meet me here in COS. I’ll split the take equally like a real pirate. Yes, Jake, including you.

      • @theycallmenineclues – here’s something you may find funnier… He didn’t say he didn’t hide it in the foothills of the Rockies.

        He did say in the mountains somewhere N of Sante Fe, and later above 5000′. If you read his book and translate the correct words, foot is pie. Perhaps he actually is saying foothills.

        • “If you read his book and translate the correct words,”

          How do you know which are the correct words in the book to translate if needed?

          All words in his books can be translated to millions of meanings.

          That’s a fact.

        • EC. so you are saying that nothing Forrest says is authentic? Every single word he speaks or writes is a hint or a clue? If any person behaved like that 100 percent of the time needs mental help, no pun intended…

          So if he says “I really love my wife Peggy” in your world may mean something else? Like love in spanish is amor, reverse that and that spells Roma, there another confirmation or Ramonafafafafana…

          • Good one, Oz10. That would kinda be funny if peg didn’t mean clou. But it does. So, learn to speak Fenn.

        • Seriously, that would be humanly impossible. You may be stretching it a bit too thin.

          • @Oz10 – I’m not suggesting everything he is saying is a clue (or hint or however you folks want to parse that word). But when I consider what is happening right this second in the area that I believe is where he hid it, then I see motivation for wanting to include hints in lots of things being communicated so that someone finds it soon. Fenn’s message in his book about fighting over land is clear.

            The irony (to me) about all of this is that not only is Fenn a f*ing genius in my perspective to have worked this out into a poem, and incredibly diverse in the arts, but the timing of this land swap deal makes it something even more. If he’d caught wind of the notion through his rich dude network and had been sitting on the Alpha Omega piracy joke for many years, no wonder the book materialized in just a few weeks.

    • EC,
      “For haters”?
      Is the definition of haters; someone who doesn’t agree with your brilliant one of a kind solution?

      Here’s a “pie” for you… two families branches of a single prehistoric language called Indo-European or Proto-Indo-European… pie;
      The principal European language family is the Italic (popularly called Romance). This consists of the modern languages derived from Latin: Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Provençal, French, Italian, Rhaeto-Romance, and Romanian.

      “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, “LATIN”, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f” 

      I wonder if the hint here [ and it seems fenn is hinting with everything he states, Right? ] That, Knowing Latin, which Spanish derived from may not assist anyone to the treasure location. Or could it simply mean, English is all you need?

      Don’t hate me… hate the historians.

      Food for thought.

    • Apologies for continuously repeating and sounding like a broken record (pun intented), but 22.7 and the significance of the number 22 is actually 22/7, which is pi.

      Anyone listening good yet?

        • @pdenver – so is 22 divided by 7, an approximation to the nearest 2 decimals. July 22 is often known as another pi day, like Einstein’s birthday on March 14. The bracelet represents pi.

          Lots of people are going to be angry at Fenn when this complex theory is proven to be correct.

          • Hello E.C. Waters. Looks like I missed that one. Why would people be angry at Mr. Fenn? I see no possible reasoning. He’s done something wonderful and we’re having a great time trying to figure out his poem. Been several years and we’re still at it. Someday, someone will figure it out. 🙂

            P.S. Yes, I believe I can hear you say it’s you. Go find that beautiful chest! 🙂

          • @pdenver – because some people have said they will be mad if the solution is as “complex” as I have been describing in my theory. They interpret “straight forward” and other quotes regarding complexity very differently than I have.

            @42, if you’re still monitoring, I believe you may have been approaching the final steps in one of your posts. You were just in the wrong area (my belief). Have the same look, but this time at Strawberry Fields.

          • Hello EC. I agree with you I think some of the poem will be complex and some will be easy but the complex issues are why everyone is still searching we just need to figure out what those are. Regardless of whether you are right or wrong in your calculations, it is very interesting how you view and breakdown the poem. Good luck and happy hunting!

          • Straightforward: Uncomplicated and easy to do or understand.
            “When I wrote that poem I wasn’t playing any games, It’s straight forward.”

          • @Jake – Fenn quoted the first stanza of “Invictus” on Nov 2, 2013 while at Moby Dickens… 57:45.

            Here’s the final stanza of that same poem:

            It matters not how strait the gate,
            How charged with punishments the scroll,
            I am the master of my fate:
            I am the captain of my soul.

            Aside from the obvious Black Forest allusion in the first stanza, please see the spelling of “strait” in the final stanza, and apply it to “strait forward” instead of where you are choosing to continue to be stuck.

          • Occam’s razor, or law of parsimony, is a problem-solving principle stating, among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions is likely the correct one.

          • @Pandora – I’m Occam’s biggest fan. With apologies, I miss your point, though. Are you saying my theory is too complex and should be dismissed, or are you saying it is simple enough to be considered?

      • Hello E.C. Waters. There lies the beauty of the poem. We each see it as we do. We just need to see it as Mr. Fenn does. 🙂

      • Personally, I believe the clues loosely follow the golden ratio which relates to pi. However, it would be nearly impossible for FF to use geographically based clues to guide a seeker. Yes, pi occurs often in nature but not in unrelated places.

        My point was simply that if take everyone’s theories together, the most straightforward one is probably the best one to follow.

        I do like the pi angle but wouldn’t dismiss a well rounded theory that didn’t exactly follow pi.

        • @Pandora, not sure what you mean by nearly impossible. The theory I am proposing is related to walking to the exact center of the bottom square of Strawberry Fields (which happens to also be a knotted (burl) ponderosa, drawing a concentric circle 200 feet out, then another 500 feet out. The center of this section of Strawberry Fields may be found by using a circle with a center point. Pi would be relevant.

          From there, a 250 degree angle happens to coincide with a slope into gully heading southwest. The end point at the 500 foot diameter is where I will be looking for the box.

          Also around that area, I found lodged golf balls and a busted up Sega. These items have no business being there, but yet they coincide with Fenn-isms.

          There is a link to an article that SL continues to post here. In this article is a photo of Fenn, standing next to a pelt containing the pattern I am describing above. Curious that such a coincidence would occur not only in his descriptions found in My War For Me, an article with a pelt containing this pattern, but also a recent post on mysteriouswritings about reusing pottery shards and a reference to another book of his. In addition to jade bi holding this pattern, so do record albums, and so does the Imagine memorial found in Strawberry Fields in Central Park… directly south of Jackie Kennedy Onassis lake (likely related to his brandy reference).

          Occam might wonder about this, too, and not at all for the Golden Ratio.

          • One more curiosity (of the pile I have now)…

            Of the books mentioned in Important Literature, one was being read at the time Mark Chapman was arrested, now related to the Imagine memorial. By itself, a loose coincidence maybe. It becomes a little more curious when Fenn calls out in TTOTC two other famous murderers and the desire to leave behind a name in history.

            Imagine is more important than knowlege. Read the whole if you wish to know the whole.

      • Fenn has no great love for math, so proposing that pi or a very crude approximation to pi (22/7) has anything to do with this puzzle is a gigantic, illogical leap of faith IMO.

        • just the facts use the maps if fourth graders can locate these places so can you.

        • @zaphod – based on what I am seeing (a hidden treadure of value > $1M, not found for at least 6 yrs now, not to even mention my interpretation of the poem and book) you greatly underestimate his capability. You would then be compared to the rich folk from whom he gained his wealth, as much as they also underestimated him.

          I haven’t met him and I don’t underestimate him. Have you met him?

          • No, E.C., I have not yet had the pleasure. But as a scientist and someone who has been in love with math since I was 3, I’d like to believe I’m better than your average bear at differentiating those who love math from those that are indifferent to it or outright hate it. While a disappointment for people like me, it should come as a great relief to most searchers that no special math skills will be necessary in order to find Fenn’s chest (IMHO, of course). Remember, Fenn has said basically anyone can find the chest — they just have to figure out the poem. Most people suck at math, so Occam’s Razor says no math required.

      • @melanie – not entirely. Are you inferring the play length of Revolution 9?

    • Twingem on July 17, 2016 at 5:41 pm said:

      @E.C. Waters – Hi there! Would like to connect on collaboration. I think together we might have great fun with Chase and solve. Please respond with way to contact if interested.

  4. Reminder:
    This page is for Nine Clues discussions. Please stay on topic.
    Else Goofy shall intervene..

  5. I read an earlier post where someone suggested the poem may be describing Forrest’s life (or something to that sort.)
    If that were the case, could the ‘canyon down’ merely be his way of referencing a low time in his life? Perhaps, when he was forced to leave college or even when he was shot down in Vietnam?
    Food for thought.

    • Getting a cancer diagnosis, undergoing surgical and other related medical procedures and treatments, could be considered a “low” time in ones life.

      Incurable prognosis…….worse.

  6. Good morning everyone,
    Watched a great PBS show on the National Parks last night. Because of this Chase, I was shocked how much I already knew.
    A bit sad on how the human cancer spread across N. America decimating everything in its path. The National Parks were a great victory for the people of this great nation.
    Have a great day. … Sub….

    • Arca, if you miss any of that Ken Burns 6 part series on our National Parks, it’s available for free viewing to Amazon Prime members. We watched 2 episodes last night – wonderful series as are all of the documentaries from Ken Burns. Makes me want to put all of our parks on my bucket list! 🙂

  7. Water halts, water high. I would imagine that the first location to look for is going be somewhere higher up, and then its downhill from there..

  8. Great thought on the Nine Clues guys, all a distinct possibility!! Many ideas are so great, all ideas are wonderful. Hope at least one of us is correct. Ms. Girl

  9. Where warm waters halt the name of the river means warm water and it halts at _________. Or in Philmont Boy Sccout Ranch the warm water is the frogs’ habitat. Oops gave away too much. Or the dry hot empty river bed next to the Big B property with the stacks of old cars, the white coffee pot and the animal troough with running water. the old cooler and refridge OR the old cabin with the root cellar down the road from the Meeks Ranch.

  10. Shared this with Bookworm, figured I’d share with the rest of you guys and gals:

    Clue to discuss: WWWH

    Having been a jet pilot, Forrest is well-versed in the various aeronautical charts and their use of scale. IMO (<– just my Opinion!) I believe that part of what Forrest means when he says he built the poem as an architect would – each clue can be represented by a different geographical scale. For example, my belief is that WWWH represents a "high-altitude chart", one where the entire US is visible. Each subsequent clue uses a tighter scale, until the last ones that describe something a few yards away.

    So where does that lead me? As many of you know, I live in SW Montana, in the Rockies, and I'm between 5000 feet and 10,200 feet daily (As I sit at my desktop computer in my office, I'm just under 4900'). But before moving to Montana to become a dental-floss farmer, I lived for over 10 years in sunny, hot Florida, in a little beach town we called the Redneck Riviera. And talk about warm waters! It was common to see water temps over 96 degrees Fahrenheit during the summer. Jumping in the ocean was like sliding into a salty, lukewarm bathtub. Full of sharks.

    Combining these thoughts (well, except the shark part) is how I reached my WWWH. From the Warm Waters of the Gulf of Mexico: putting in at the Mississippi River Delta, and paddling upstream to the Headwaters of the Missouri River, it's an unbroken connection. I find it amusing that I could – in theory – drop a toy boat in my local creek and it would end up floating out the bottom of Louisiana and into the Gulf.

    But the Missouri headwaters aren't the end of the line. The Mighty Mo is sourced from three separate rivers, which join up in picturesque (and aptly named) Three Forks, Montana; a site considered sacred to the Native Americans that once inhabited this area, and a major landmark for the Lewis & Clark Expedition. Those three rivers are the Gallatin, Madison, and Jefferson. But let's not stop there; where do each of those rivers start? Could one of these be the halting of the warm waters of the Gulf?

    The Madison is formed at the confluence of the Firehole and Gibbon Rivers near the southern edge of YNP. The Jefferson's longest run is to Bower's Spring, high in the Centennials, near the Continental Divide. But the third river, the Gallatin, halts at a lake bearing the same name, located within the Yellowstone Park boundaries (And if you weren't aware, the Treasury Secretary of the US in 1805/6, who Lewis & Clark named this lake and river after, was Albert Gallatin. Could Treasures Bold be a tie-in with Gallatin and the Treasure State of Montana?) Back on subject, it appears that the only place warm waters of the Gulf actually halt would be Lake Gallatin.

    To summarize, my opinion is that WWWH is solved as the warm waters of the Gulf of Mexico that only halt at one place, and that's in Yellowstone at the northwest corner of the park: Gallatin Lake.

    I'll let the reader figure out the canyon down from there. 😉

    • Naught, Why consider that the waters of the Madison begin at the junction? thats only where its name begins. One recent poster even mentioned the Pacific waters evaporating into clouds and raining back down on the Rockies. Where does a circle begin? Guess we need Fenn’s definition of ‘begin’.

      • OS2, because I believe the word HALT is intentional. It separates waters that fall out of the sky, or bubble up from underground, from those that have a significant, identifiable source. Even the Madison’s two sources aren’t well-defined past their confluence. The Firehole comes from Madison Lake and actually starts as a seasonal runoff creek from just below the Continental Divide. The Gibbon treks far east before being sourced from two lakes (Wolf and Grebe).

        As for why I think the waters of the Madison begin at the junction? It may only be a name, but it’s a name given by the people who first trekked these areas and figured it out. I may not have personally walked up the Gibbon or Firehole from the Madison, but I trust the delineations of those who did, like Lewis & Clark, Joe Meek, Jim Bridger, Henry Edgar and others.

    • Santa Fe Texas is on the Gulf of Mexico. Santa Fe TX is a mile away from Hillcrest TX. Hillcrest Cemetery is where his family is buried. “But cemetery scant with marvel gaze” fits well.
      Scant = Few
      Marvel = Marvin
      Gaze= Gay
      Butter = Skippy


      • Hammer, don’t forget Lily (Forrest’s mother) and Bubba – since authors lean towards the subject in autobiographies. I’m thinking Lily pad and me/bubba go in line with skippy being the butter fly. Guessing June could go either right or left depending on who’s side she took. No one wanted to be in Marv’s way when he got mad, and lily padded their jeans so switchingings weren’t As painful. Now how do we fit in Eric Sloane and Kammerer (because it rhymes with Hammer, well we must fit it somewhere, to be ssure) :-). Having hundreds of lunches together must mean they were outlaws together while riding the river; or at least fished together.

    • Naught,
      Frank Zappa & The Mothers – 1973
      I might be movin’ to Montana soon
      Just to raise me up a crop of
      Dental Floss
      I always thought floss was synthetic. Learn something new everyday.

      I know about the hot weather in Florida where I live on the Treasure Coast. I see you were from the Emerald Coast.
      Yea, I don’t swim with sharks anymore either….

      Your solve is very interesting & seems to be engineered to bring you to Forrest special area that he loved so much. I will agree & think the treasure is in this widespread area, not necessarily Gallatin Lake, I thought about this lake & could not find all the connections to the poem & ruled out an 80 year old man making this trip unless it’s on a four wheeler or maybe a horse.
      Certainly a unique perspective & who knows, maybe the chest is there.

      • Jake, if you have a source for pygmy ponies, let me know.

        Gallatin Lake is WWWH, so you’ll still have to take it in the canyon down not far but too far to walk. I don’t think Forrest followed the entire path when hiding his treasure; he was able to park within a couple of miles of his special place. But of course, we need the whole path – the area covered by the poem is huge, but the location of the treasure is small.

        My solve takes me quite a few miles down from Gallatin Lake. But it does make an intriguing WWWH, no?

        • No Pygmy pony connections here Naught. Maybe someday.
          Sorry, sometimes I get the beginning & the end mixed up on many things.
          Yes, very intriguing. I’m still stuck with WWWH is near Ojo Caliente, Forrest’s swimming spot. You do have a great advantage of living so close, assuming that’s where he hid the treasure. I have been to all the states on the map & Montana ranks #1 in my heart & soul. NM is second choice.

        • Naught,
          If I understand your process for WWWH… how do you interpret “halt” meaning? Is it a stop in progress? a temporary stop? a change in direction?
          Suggestion; If you’re running this distance [ no argument to that ] could the point of halt be the water sources working backwards to the gulf? Thinking a long the lines… Follow the watershed to it origin and you now know where to start.

          Knowing the place for the first time scenario.

          • Hi Seeker,

            Regarding “halt”, I view it based on the modern definition as where something stops, or ceases to move, temporarily or permanently. A halt is “well-defined” when compared to a gradual mixing (confluence) or a gradual ending (seasonal gully or underground spring). So, when I analyzed the mouth of the Mississippi to the headwaters of the Missouri, it was quite exciting to see that of all the “waters” that make the longest trip from the Continental Divide to the Gulf of Mexico, only one of those was fed by a well-defined halting of water at a lake.

            You’re pretty much on the same page – tracing a waterway’s longest path from its warm water source to where it halts in the mountains.

        • @Naught – Pygmy is used as symbolism because it is a synonym for cipher, or a disguised way of writing.

          While nothing in Fenn’s poem, book, or social media presence has a true cipher as we know cryptography today, he is still disguising clues with anecdotal stories and references by incorporating simple English words (including synonyms, homonyms, and homophones transformed with other languages) that have specific meanings leading to important literature not mentioned in the first chapter, and eventually important musical artists, as well as points of interest that connect together sequentially. This pattern can be shown by matching discovered literature along the way with what he has divulged are some of the contents of the chest.

          Examples of chest content connections to literature/artists include:
          – gold and the dragon coat bracelet might represent Madrid Coat of Arms and the Gryphon, or in the case of Calderon de la Barca, the Hippogryph (see Life is a Dream, the underlying theme I believe is Fenn’s book). The Coat of Arms includes strawberries.
          – the 17th century Spanish emerald ring also represents the Spanish Golden Age, of which Lope de Vega and Calderon are attributed (Vega more so). Both Calderon’s and Vega’s names are also hints.
          – the lock of hair can be connected with Life is a Dream, and the locket with which Estrella is upset. Even the name Estrella can be transformed to Principal via star, his father’s career, as well as “asterisk”, that which Fenn doesn’t want to be.
          – Calderon can be alluding to Calderstones Park, where Lennon begged his aunt to take him when he heard the music starting each summer, like the story of Gypsy Magic. The reason this is important is because of Strawberry Fields in Colorado Springs, a location that in my opinion is the final clue location.
          – I speculate Fenn has also included Alpha Omega albums or tapes in the box because of the connection to piracy, but also because he has sold bootlegged art.

          All in my humble opinion. Dal, Goofy, please feel free to edit if any of this offends. I feel like it’s related to the nine clues and how to interpret Fenn. If not, I can re-add my interpretation of the nine clues again if needed.

          • Another good example to show such a connection is “pillowed down and scented in” could represent “pillow, crown, and scepter”, the logo or cover of the bootleggers back then.

          • Has anyone read The Hunter Cats of Connorloa yet and connected it to the blaze? And Bessie and Me?

          • Hello E.C. Waters. Do you feel searchers need to read all the other materials for which you state in order to understand the clues in the poem? I’m a little confused.

          • @pdenver – not any more or less than I feel searchers should also get out and physically look for the treasure. The point is to visually connect and confirm with the stories he’s telling. If you believe TTOTC will help, will others that he’s mentioned, like The Great Gatsby connecting to bootlegging? Or For Whom the Bells Toll connecting to Shrine of the Sun? Why not also consider lit and places he doesn’t mention, like the entire state of Colorado? Or Helen Hunt Jackson? Is there anything too small not worth knowing as it pertains to this puzzle?

          • If I’m linking correctly, HHJ uses an important word that Fenn likes in The Hunter Cats of Connorloa… helter-skelter, leading again to Beatles. There are also other links in the names of the cats and other dialogue. He attempts to confirm this with us in several places, including cats feeling blessed.

            In my opinion.

          • @Jake – HHJ says it better than I can while quoting a proverb: there are none so blind as those who won’t see. I don’t k ow what else to tell you. Rather than challenging me on my use of the word “confirm”, consider studying.

          • Hello E.C. Waters. One should never stop learning. How do you decide which other literatures to read to understand the poem without bias confirmation? I do believe it’s possible to go in confidence.

            Would you be so kind to explain how you got Helen Hunt Jackson, please. I apologize for not remembering.

          • @pdenver – as I see it, her maker is the fifth of nine locations suggested in the poem, and why Fenn suggests 5 squirts each to the six cats in Bessie and Me. She’s the nickel under the grave marker. Her marker contains the word associations to “wise” (etymology of Ramona) and “blaze” (etymology of Helen). I got here by following the other clue locations, one through four. I can take you through those also if you wish.

          • Hello E.C. Waters. Thank you for your explanation. I greatly appreciate it. When did you figure out this was the place you needed to be? How long have you been searching?

          • @pdenver – I live in a Kansas City suburb. It’s only been a few weeks. I started going there and looking shortly before I wrote and asked for the Seven Falls Theory to be posted.

          • Hello E.C. Waters. Thank you for your response. I greatly appreciate it. I thought perhaps you lived in Colorado and was able to search your area often. Looks like you’ve been hitting the books to be able to come up with your solution in just a few weeks. 🙂

            Best of luck and good memories are wished for you.

          • @pdenver – I assume from your handle you live in CO. If you’re adding to your collection of “must reads” for the chase, consider including Thunder, Sun and Snow by Judy von Ahlefeldt. The opening line is a dead match to Fenn’s words on cake, with a lot of good info on Dreamland (Life is a Dream) and the history of the Black Forest. The lit connection here is at least Lord Byron and the story of the bracelet Fenn wants returned, but more impotantly the word association to Calderón de la Barca to Calderstones Park to finish the Alpha Omega (title to the gold) outlined path in Strawberry Fields.

          • Hello E.C. Waters. I do, indeed, live in Colorado. I would guess I’m a couple hours away from where you search. Thank you for the recommended literature. I greatly appreciate it.

          • @pdenver – add Helen Hibt Jackson’s poem Shadows of Birds to your list. Many Fenn links.

          • @pdenver – and familiar? Links, only the shadow knows, Fenn’s poem on birds in Ode to Peggy Jean, a mystery scrapbook post on birds taking Tewa soul pots to the sky…

            It’s as if HHJ would seem to be the blaze.

          • Hello E.C. Waters. I can understand how you may feel you can make connections with the poet and her works, along with Mr. Fenn and his.

        • Naught,
          Ahh… The Brozone. Where the snowboarding trust-fund hipster meets the “West-side Mommy” for over priced zinfandel at Plonk. Or a PBR at the Filler. She got the boobs from the 1st divorce and the Escalade and cookie-cutter from the 2nd. Nice. Maybe they’re at Bacchus right now to meet the guy with the dreads and patchuli for some of that sweet, sweet “kine”. You know what I’m sayin’.

          Speaking of which…if you were in The Baxter and subtracted about 22.72 miles from your WWWH, used the ruler tool in GE and ran a sweep, I think you might find an alternative that bears investigating. Others may scoff, but this is for locals only. There you go.

          And speaking of bears-FTGADED!

          • N.,
            Correction: subtract 22.72 (give or take) from Dal’s cache. NOT your WWWH.


          • Funny, when I head out to search, I happen to park exactly 22.7 miles from ol’ Ted’s home of Bison Killers.

            It’s Ted at both ends, if you know what I mean.

    • Hi Naught – that certainly qualifies as a “big picture” solve to the WWWH question. I rather like it.

      And Hammertime, you may have hit on a connection b/t Santa Fe TX and Santa Fe NM.

      New bones to chew on (since my old ones are getting rancid). Thank youze.

    • I’m not any kind of pilot, but was definitely excited after discovering VFR maps.
      The interactive piloting maps have many different views/ layers, high IFR, low IFR, VFR, satellite, roads…spend a day or two studying them & you will gain a huge appreciation for what it takes to fly an aircraft.

      • 9clues, I have a few dozen hours in light aircraft, just enough to appreciate what Forrest had to learn in order to fly those touchy fighter jets. is awesome, I use it with my flight simulator. I could see Forrest going from the high-altitude jet route charts, to low-altitude charts, to vfr charts, etc.

      • Great map! We had breakfast at the AUN airport yesterday. 🙂 I’ll have to see what my favorite search area looks like with that map.

    • I like the idea about high altitude macro scale imaging down to the micro of the chest. Big picture down to small object. Look quickly down = zoom in (as on Google Earth)….

      I think it’s a stretch to identify the waters in Gallatin Lake as warm sea waters via the meandering connection… All lakes and ponds and pools and puddles find their way to the sea unless they drain in an endorheic basin like the Great Divide Basin where the warm waters salt….

      Thinking about the “big picture” which FF suggests we look at when considering WWWH, and trying to think about it like a kid (did FF suggest we do this too?), leads me to the water cycle… but where does that lead us in the Rockies? and what is the canyon down?

    • Naught, I love your suggestion about clues getting more geographically tighter.

      If I recall correctly (IIRC), Major Fenn did mention that there were many places where warm waters halt in the Rocky Mountains.

  11. This is kind of off topic, but I feel that we need to give Dal a break. It seems like a lot of people are giving him a hard time because he communicates with Forrest. I feel that Dal has been very honest with us. An example of that is when they were talking about the blaze. He told us Forrest’s reply. I am very thankful for Dal and his website. This is given an opportunity for all searchers to throw their ideas around. Besides, I feel that there is only one person in Forrest’s life that has an advantage over us because unless he gave them a cryptic question and expected a straightforward answer about the legal ramifications of where the chest can be placed, I would still say we have nothing to worry about. They are probably successful at what they do and do not have time to go deciphering poems and going on adventures.

    • I have never had the slightest suspicion that Dal (or Goofy) are anything but 100%% straight up with us, and that Forrest has given no special treatment to anyone, least of all Dal – and FF has said so in the past.

    • If you’re going to make a statement like that… Back it up with something . fenn has repeatedly stated no one knows where he hid the chest. It was imperative to him that no one knew.

      It’s one thing to interpret… It’s another thing to just say it…

    • Ace,

      I affirm your post, but with a caveat and that is this blog is constructed in such a way that it favors those who can do their homework, and I for one take full advantage of that as I assume Dal does as well. Dal is an intelligent researcher and his background should make that apparently clear. There are a lot of those who comment, share and actively participate here who fortunately are inherently lazy. They want others to explain their thought process, sight links ect. without doing their own research and that is why I have said “Give a man a fish” because I want them to come to their own conclusions and learn and provide for themselves, go down those rabbit holes because you learn so much.

      “Since we cannot know all that there is to be known about anything, we ought to know a little about everything.” – Blaise Pascal

      I do not intend to say that Dal and or Goofy has intentionally set up this blog to favor themselves it is just the way the format is and it favors those who dig deep, think and analyze.


    • WOW how did this message become offensive. Please let me clarify. I was simply thanking Dal for creating this website. It just comes with the territory that he gets one on one time with Forrest. I AM NOT WORRIED THAT HE GETS SPECIAL TREATMENT. I fully trust their relationship. If I did not trust Forrest I would not even be here right now. I would be in the boat with others that believe this all to be a hoax. TRUST ME I BELIEVE IT TO BE TRUE. I know that Dal is a big boy and can take care of himself, but for all the work he does and I doubt he makes a dime for it, I was simply reaching out to all searchers to just respect his efforts. He has allowed us a way to channel our ideas. I was not pointing any fingers and accusing anyone in particular. I am sure that over the 6 years this search has been going on he has gotten gruff from people about their communications. Now as far as the attorney goes I did not say that Forrest told them where the chest is. Here is the thing Forrest has masterminded this hole plan by himself. IMO The only piece of info in all the interviews with Forrest is that he took the deliberation of ASKING questions with a qualified attorney. No the attorney does not know where the chest is, but was hammered by a slew questions concerning legal ramifications. That does not really narrow down the playing field for him/her. Do I think the attorney will take the time to desipher the poem and try to retrieve the chest? NO absolutely NOT. It is still a vast wilderness out there. It really was just a back door pun gone bad. I stated in my introduction that my tactics are unusal. I do not walk the straight line. I too like to bounce of curbs.
      If my letters could reflect color I think they would be a soft pink. I am not trying to be offensive in any way. I am here because of my respect I have for many of you. If I were to post something offensive it would only be because someone accused me of something. I can understand where maybe my message could be interpreted in the wrong way. I am often misunderstood by my wife and we have been together for 10 years.
      So hopefully this can clear things up between myself and the ones that were offended. lol Now as long as I don’t get an attorney breathing down my back I hope all is good. lol
      I will end with all IMO.

      • Thick skin is one of the requirement’s here ACE.
        I would bet that most everyone, that has made multiple comments on this site from the last 5+ years, has put their foot in their mouth sometime or another.
        You should still be able solve the nine clues with one foot.
        I’m still limping around.

      • Ace,
        I don’t think you swallowed your foot at all. I have seen the criticisms flung at Dal (especially on another blog), and I join with you in your words of thanks and support.

        BTW, if it makes you feel any better, I often say that I open my own mouth only to change feet….

  12. i agree with you Ace- I think that forrest and dal are good honest people and if any one thinks any different shame on you

    • Dal is a True Good Guy for doing what he does here, putting up with the flack he at times does, and organizing the information for everyone’s benefit. I suspect that, in the end, someone will find the treasure having used very little of what’s been posted here, or anywhere else. But in many ways, this blog has served a couple of higher purposes: creating a community that has led to hundreds [or more] of good friendships and spreading both knowledge and the desire for more thereof. Bravo!

      • @camperguy – I totally agree on all points. This place is an outlet for many of us to voice where few others can relate except Fenn himself. I definitely appreciate the opportunity.

      • Camperguy-
        Goofy is a significant party to this blog. It could not exist without his technical know-how and diligence. Please include him in your appreciation for the blogs existence.

  13. @Dal-

    This may be a long shot, but here it goes:

    I think that there is some questions on where the “8.25 miles north of the northern limits of Santa Fe” are. I’ve had conversations with fellow co-workers that have gotten quite heated over this :). Are we talking 2015 city limits when the comment was posted or 1610 limits when it was founded?

    Id like to ask if Mr Fenn could clarify this with an exact longitude since city limits change, etc, etc. This way if things do change, there is a set guideline to follow.

    Play fair and fingers crossed.

    • Clint, here’s my opinion even though you didn’t ask me.

      He made the statement in present tense when he wrote it. So in my opinion he was talking about the city limits at that time.

      He has also said it’s not in Utah. Using your line of thinking was he talking about the Utah borders that we know? If not we could eliminate a large portion Colorado, and Southwestern Wyoming.

      In my opinion it’s far enough north of Santa Fe that it’s a moot point.

    • What guidelines? The only true guidelines we know of are, the book and the poem within. The 8.25 was math calculated from “More than” 66,000 links comment. Though I can see where you maybe leading on this the comment, it was about land-surveying and the implementing to US surveying of 1620.

      You’re gonna need a really long chain if the chest is 66,666 links from any point North of SF.

    • I get what everyone is saying but in the vast information of such generalities why not ask for a set point? The chest is north of blah blah degrees…….boom, no more questions. Granted this would be a “clue” but the northern boundary is set at Canada, why not have a set southern boundary? This way there is no “gray area” for searchers who question whether North is from 300 to 060 degrees or due North at 0/360 degrees.

      My brain thinks faster than my fingers so I hope this made sense.

    • Clint,

      Here is some free research:

      Forrest actually said something else over on Richard Saunier’s blog: “The Treasure chest is full of gold and precious jewels and is more than 66,000 links north of Santa Fe.” and we know that a link is 1/100th of a chain and a chain is 66 feet. So:

      100 links = 1 chain
      66,000 links = 660 chains (66,000 ÷ 100)
      1 chain = 66 feet
      660 chains = 43560 feet (660 x 66) = 8.25 miles

      So the question should be, why did Forrest make us go thru this math to “come up with” 8.25 miles, why didn’t he just say “more than 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe”? Look into the significance of that and you maybe closer.


        • Oh, I see.
          Your area to search may be in the gray area?
          Yea, I demand Forrest to straighten this out right now! Who does he think he is, hiding a treasure worth millions of dollars for us to find & keep it, in the Rockies. Writing this vague poem to find it.
          Huh! He’s got a nerve.
          How dare he not clarify himself.

          Maybe he should just put an X on the map for you.
          Just have fun CY……..

      • Any reason why he used that number where if put on square feet is exactly one Acre? (43,560 sq.ft.= 1 Acre) Another hint?

        • Oz10,

          Forrest just doesn’t just give us answers, he riddles them and wants us to think. Ever the teacher Forrest asks us questions to see what we come up with right or wrong. Its like turning over a log in the forest just to see what the critters do. Forrest in his own way is teaching us all how to fish. Think.


          • Oz10,

            ROFL, nope i think Goofy is lying on top of it to prevent it from rolling down the hill back into WWWH.


        • Oz10,

          To me, Forrest is like standing watch over all our shoulders while we piece together his puzzle, he could easily reach down and place each piece in its proper spot but then what would we all learn from it, nothing, its the thrill in doing it yourself.


  14. Just one-tenth of a mile past the Mt. Brown Trail junction is the turn-off for the Snyder Lake Trail. After turning left at the junction the trail continues to follow Snyder Creek, which flows down the valley between Mt. Brown and Edwards Mountain. Much of the route to Snyder Lake passes through tall vegetation, so it’s a very good idea to make a lot of noise and keep an eye out for bears as you proceed up the valley. Hikers will also see a wide variety of wildflowers along this section of the trail as well.

    After gaining another 1000 feet over the course of the next 2.5 miles, the trail tops out at nearly 5250 feet, before making a short descent down to the lake.

    Snyder Lake lies in a basin surrounded by 8565-foot Mt. Brown towards the north, and Edwards Mountain towards the south. 7886-foot Little Matterhorn, towards the northeast, is the mountain that lies directly ahead of you as you arrive at the foot of the lake. If you look closely you’ll notice a couple of waterfalls cascading down the cliff walls surrounding the lake.

  15. According to New Mexico Game and Fish, “Warm waters include all streams, lakes, and ponds, except those designated as trout waters.” I did a quick search for Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana’s Game and Fish Dept. definitions but didn’t find a clear definition, yet. Good luck chasers!

  16. All the clues refer to places.
    Some of the clues may be things but are definitely at a specific place.
    You will need to put BOTG at some point to solve.
    My point is after the 6th clue.
    I think I may be wrong.

  17. Where did the post about the double eagles go? I was all ready to let my imagination run wild thinking the chest was full of double eagle saint gaudens! Such a beautiful coin!!! And what if the second proof coin was in there!!!

    “The first double eagle was minted in 1849, coinciding with the California Gold Rush. In that year, the mint produced two pieces in proof. The first resides in the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, D.C. The second was presented to Treasury Secretary William M. Meredith and was later sold as part of his estate—the present location of this coin remains unknown.”


  18. Seeker, I got one for you. I’m sure it has been discussed before but how can it be said that the poem is not a riddle?

    “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, “riddles”, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f”


    -a question or statement intentionally phrased so as to require ingenuity in ascertaining its answer or meaning, typically presented as a game.
    -a person, event, or fact that is difficult to understand or explain.

    • MY only answer to that [which doesn’t really matter] Is “knowing about” While you are working on the definition of what a riddle is… I see this as, Knowing how to solve riddles, write riddles, understand riddles is not going to help. I can say the same for know another language, or knowing bible verses etc.

      The point I take away from this comment is; the poem is already complex and don’t try to “over complicate” it by adding unknowns into the process. We are told what resources would be helpful… the book, a good map. and yes GE falls under a “good map”

      With that said… I have given examples of riddles in the past, but not as a tool to interpret the poem, but an example of, How many clues does it take to get and answer? We, the readers, seem to have this need to see 9 clues as 9 individual answers…

      First and foremost this is a poem… word choice and usage is an important factor to a poem as to, many meaning of a single word, term, phrase can be used all at the same time. And all still being straightforwards. Some call it layers, I like the Multiple meaning aspect… So I don’t see riddles as much as all usages of the words etc. But that’s just me.

      • That is the huge gray area right there, if is not straight forwards to one out of thousands of people then it falls into a riddle regardless of simplicity.

        • @Oz10 – What if when he said “straight forward” he was communicating “strait forward” as a hint to Pillars of Hercules?

          Did you know “straight away” is synonymous for “quickly”, and “down” on a map is “south”, so that “quickly down” could then be “look at the no trespassing dirt road heading south away from HHJ marker” …

          “Take the arc-shaped dirt road and sneak away”

          I my opinion, because it eventually makes a path shaped like Alpha Omega, title to the gold.

        • What is straightforwards to you? To me it means; Honesty. Nothing about not being complex, difficult, complicated etc. This poem was not meant/written for ALL to solve..imo… we all just have the same information to attempted it.

          Call it a riddle by definition, but I don’t think the final solution is a riddle, as much as a complex usage of meanings that revolve around a single set of instruction and not directions or directional. Instructions; tell you how to put it all together… I believe the poem do just that.
          This is why I look at the poem, not as solving a clue, to a clue, to a clue {that’s a riddle}… but an overall view of what is needed to be known and why.
          So for me… it’s not a riddle.

      • The definition of riddle is straight forward for me. Even the whole paragraph in question seems pretty straight forward too, except maybe the Google Earth part where it can be taken as literately the app for Maps or as in look up Earth (google it) and learn the geography.

        That is word choice I understand, but if we were to say that the map is not a riddle then each of the clues or combinations of them that represent a location could be found individually of each other. But if you can not find the blaze for example, without first solving the previous clues and/or finding those locations first then it is a riddle, no?

  19. Oz10 and others,
    IMO, the poem is a complex verbal puzzle, but neither a “riddle” nor a “cipher”. For comparison, here is a riddle followed by a (simple) cipher:
    Q. How many Dadaists does it take to change a light bulb?
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  20. The Weekly Words for April 29th, 2016 are as follows and combines with the following Featured Question:

    Mr. Fenn,

    Which direction does the Blaze face? North, South, East or West? Curious. Foxy

    I didn’t take a radial off of the blaze Foxy. I’m thinking it may not be any of those directions. f

    seems like a big game changer…

  21. All;

    In my opinion, He is smart (as if we did not already know that)

    He used the word “radial” not compass. A Radial only has N, S, E, and W.

    A compass has ALL directions.

    IF the blaze faces Northwest, or Southeast, for example. It would show up on a
    compass, but NOT on a radial.

    He could also be indicating UP or DOWN, as well.

    A stream flowing DOWN in a Southeasterly direction would work as a blaze…IF it appeared to be something other than just a stream.

    Who Knows?…NOT I.

      • That is true, but they are usually not marked.

        I am referring to one like the one that is shown on the MW site with Forrests quip.

        Good luck to all searchers and STAY SAFE


        • Good point JD. He specifically said it was not North, South, East, or West. But there are infinite directions between those. Say 32 degrees Northeast. He really didn’t narrow down anything did he.

        • Naught just explained it better than I could.
          But I’m wondering if even his/her explanation might miss a point that FF might have been speaking in very general terms, having simply meant “I didn’t get a direction”?

          • That is most likely what he meant. However, please keep in mind that Forrest is very very clever. It’s kind of like a mystery prize in kids box of cereal, never know what you can expect.

          • Ace, I know what you mean.
            Since this whole thing is a riddle, everything Forest says might also be a riddle.
            And I think that probably delights him to no end. lol

    • “Taking a radial” is a common aviation term, meaning to determine your bearing to a fixed point. The most common use is using a VOR to navigate. A transmitter at the VOR sends out a signal that the pilot’s VOR receiver uses to identify the bearing to the station. This radial is metered in 1 degree increments, so if you’re southeast of the station, you’re bearing “from” the station is 135 degrees, so a pilot can turn to its reciprocal (315 degrees) to fly directly to the station (while allowing for the winds).

      You make a great point about up and down… radials and bearings are 2-dimensional. Forrest said, “… found the blaze, look quickly down…” so it’s obvious the blaze is “up” from wherever you are. Maybe he’s just negating the horizontal component of blaze-finding.

      • Aeronautic / VOR
        Engine /mechanical
        Circle / curve
        Geometric / vector.

        Can the blaze be pre-determined by the poem or can it only be determined at the search area?- becky
        Becky, you are a rascal to ask that question and I have been sitting here for about fifteen minutes trying to decide what to say. Well, it has been thirty minutes now and I think I’ll pass on the question. Sorry.f

        Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues. Although others were at the starting point I think their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem. Playing a hunch is not worth much in the search and those who start out by looking for the blaze, are wasting their time.f

        No 49, I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues. To me that’s just expensive folly. f

        Try not to read those comments as strictly a starting point… but maybe… With a radial in mind, is the blaze and the starting point connected in such a way, that both are needed for the same purpose. ‘ants climbing a tree’… ‘scant, talking in circles’… ‘know where to start’… first clue is critical to know, without it you might as well stay home…

        • @SL – it does for me. It’s what I was saying here with pi but upset Dal and maybe Goofy. Looks like I just didn’t go far enough when I was hunting.

        • Anyone catch that glitch in the 2nd recording? About 42 seconds in. How’d that slip in?

          • Hello Melanie. Many errors have been made from reporters. Luckily, we’re wise to know it’s not in the Sierra Madres. 🙂

  22. “After a brief fight, Russell escaped west toward Stinking Creek.” From my Memoir – The thrill of the Chase January 26, 2011 (

    Does anyone know the location of, what was called in the 1800s, “Stinking Creek?” There is a stinking creek east of Yellowstone; on the Wyoming side. But FF claims Russell headed west after the Blackfoot skirmish.

    To me, it sounds like Russell was up stink creek without a paddle.

    • Her are a coupe of references to the “stinking River” from JOAT

      13th We left the Madison Fork with Mr Bridger’s Camp and ascended a small branch in a West direction through the mountains about 20 Mls. and encamped on the divide After we had encamped a Frenchman started down the mountain to set his traps for beaver contrary to the advice and persuasion of his companions he had gone but a few miles when he was fired upon by a party of Blackfeet killed and scalped.
      14th Travelled down the mountain about 16 Mls NW. and encamped on a stream called “Stinking Creek” which runs into the Jefferson fork of the Missouri. After we had encamped some trappers ascended the stream but were driven back by the Blackfeet Others went below and shared the same fate from another party but escaped to the camp unhurt

      19th Travelled about 15 mls. down stream and encamped in the edge of a plain 20th Travelled down to the two forks of this stream about 5 mls. and stopped for the night. Here some of the trappers knew the country. This stream is called Stinking River a branch of the Bighorn which after running about 40 mls thro. the big plain enters the above river about 15 mls. above the lower Bighorn Mountain. It takes its name from several hot Springs about 5 miles below the forks producing a sulphurous stench which is often carried by the wind to the distance of 5 or 6 Mls. Here are also large quarries of gypsum almost transparent of the finest quality and also appearances of Lead with large rich beds of Iron and bituminous coal We stopped at this place and rested our animals until the

      May this will help

  23. Great find, Naught. Those Google vintage reads can be awesome!

    If I might ask; do you also see anything in the following picture that quite possibly leads to a major….hint?


  24. I live in the Louisville Ky area. It is great here this time of year. We just had a firework extravaganza that last about 30 minutes. Called Thunder over Louisville. This weekend they have a balloon glow. About 30 Hot air balloons light up at night. Next weekend finishes it off with the Kentucky Derby.
    As far as the Weekly Words, this will be the first time I have partipated in it. Being new to this website. I feel it could?? fit my solve. Depends on how you look at it. I have read others in the past and most likely there will be about 20 or so different ideas and will just get confusing. This one does seem like it gives more options than last weeks. Snow is a searchers enemy. That one felt pretty direct and pointed to searchers in higher elevations.


    • Not necessarily higher elevations… But maybe so. It’s springtime in the Rockies. It’s snowing at 4900 feet as I type this.

      • Wow okay. Sorry I should have put IMO. I can’t complain here much it is 70° today. I live near the Louisville Kentucky area I do love the amenities that the cities have to offer, but the scenery of the Rockies cries out to me. I will only get one chance at my solve a year so hopefully my first one is a good one.

    • Or it could mean that if you are looking where there’s snow, you are in the wrong place.
      But don’t be detoured, none of us know what exactly he means, nor will we, until it’s solved.
      My best suggestion is do your homework until you are satisfied, then do your search. At worst you get to go on an adventure.

      I’m from Ohio, so I’m in a similar boat as you are far as traveling to do a search. But even if it’s futile, I’m looking forwards to going to the Rockies (and the first time for me).

      • Bob, I’m a transplant from NE Ohio (via Florida). Great seeing our Buckeyes dominate the NFL Draft last night!

        If you have questions about the Rockies, hit me up. I’ll buy you a beer (or coffee) when you get here – I’m the guy in the Browns hat.

        • I hate to go off topic, but I loved the draft after the first 3 rounds (including adding so many top picks next year and the next after that).

          I’ll keep your offer in mind, thank you. If I can swing it, I’d like to stay in Colorado for at least 5 days to a week to do a little sight seeing along with this adventure. But that depends on a lot of things that need to go right.

          If that ever happens, coffee is fine. 🙂

      • Bob, you know I’ve had to pass thru Ohio on all 3 of my trips since I’m outside of Wash. DC
        Planning on another trip sometime this summer, maybe we could team up starting from your location. Are you in the ‘searcher introduction’ listing_would you be open to the idea?

        • Thanks for the offer. I’d be open to it except for one thing, I’m doing this for my kids and my sisters kids. Four of them, all told, they’d get the whole split, if they want to join in on this. But I’m not sure yet that they will. I have to show them what I have and sell them on the idea.
          Basically, I have a lot of things to hammer out.

          I’ll keep you in mind though, since I don’t know how things will go.

      • I may live near the Rockies but I, like people that live farther away should wait until June at the very least. The mountains can turn on a dime and I would hate to see someone come from afar just to not find or even search because of a rogue storm. I’ve seen it snow on the plains as late as June 5th. Keep in mind, this is also an El nino year and the Rockies have had a good year in snow pack and anything can still happen. Just some food for thought. It is melting though.

        • Thanks for that info.
          I was thinking of July, to be safe. I’ve already seen people post about the weather here.
          Thank you all for the info, by the way.

          I also wanted to avoid higher creek waters from melt.

        • I will second that Med_evac, no where on this planet except maybe Afghanistan can the weather in Springtime drop 50 degrees in less than a day, just sayin, if you never backpacked in the Rockies in May you may wanta re-think your Thrill so it does not Chill you to the bone.

          On June 1st at my home in the New Mexico mountains, I have had to use a snow thrower to get out of my driveway…so if you plan to Sojourn into the Rockies, you might want to follow this mantra of Philmont Scout Ranch: Be Prepared!

          Tom T

    • Sunny,
      With all due respect, I don’t think quicksand is involved here. That would that make it to much of a “dangerous place”, wouldn’t it?

      • It doesnt have to be “quick sand”, Maybe just “sand” in general, and the use of quick sand, gets the word and meaning of “sand” across. Since the book has subtle hints, and the poem is in the book, we shouldnt rule out that the poem has subtle hints too..

        Hour Glass (OZ)
        DAN S
        AND S
        Buried Treasure..
        Billy Madison lol

        Those are just a few things that I got by playing with the word “sand”. I did that quickly..

  25. The line “I already know” gives you 3 words; alow, dye, kairn.
    Alow is below
    Dye is color
    Kairn is rock pile
    There are also other hints from this same line…

  26. long time reader, first time commenter…I might have figured something out! Y’all amaze me with how much brain power and time you put into this hunt. I feel like I should throw this out since I will probably never figure out the whole thing…but has anyone noticed that there are eleven times when Forrest refers to himself in the poem…7 times he uses “I”, three times he uses “my”, and one time he uses me. I’m my opinion, In the line where he uses me, he is telling us to hear all the other times…and letting us know in the next part of that sentence that we will list ten other times he uses “me”…those times are when he uses the word I and the word my…they total 10…could there be something to that? What do y’all think of that idea?

    • David,
      I find that interesting.
      I also find it interesting that “I” is not mentioned in stanzas 2, 3 & 4.
      Maybe it’s about you.
      The last stanza he mentions “I” & “you”.
      I think you’re on to something.

  27. The poem is about Forrest secreting a treasure somewhere in the Rockies.

    Without using personal pronouns, how else could he have told the tale?

    I am not sure where you are going with this. Is it the number 10 or 11 that
    you feel might be significant?

    Good luck with your solve and search and STAY SAFE


  28. well, i don’t think all the I/my/me’s in the poem necessarily refer to Forrest. Just to help absorb an alternate concept, imagine that … I have gone alone in there… is anthropomorphic, and the Santa Fe Trail is narrating. just an example.

    • What indications are there that Forrest chose the use of anthropomorphism? i.e. the Santa Fe Trail. I see nothing
      in the poem that indicates this. I DO SEE Forrest saying what he did, how he went about it and even WHY he did it.

      How can you possibly interpret the fifth stanza in an anthropomorphic manner?

      “So why is it that (the Santa Fe Trail) must go
      And leave (the Santa Fe Trail’s) trove for all to seek?” (sic)

      A bit of a stretch for my feeble brain.

      Paraphrasing – The poem is straight forward.

      Why complicate it with words that the majority of readers have to look up to even understand?

      • I would wager that our “redneck” in the pick-up with a dozen kids and a pregnant wife would choke on your

        ” What’d he just call me, Honey Bee?”

        (Just a bit of humor, but you get my point I am sure.)


  29. Just a short question. Has anyone ever actually heard Forrest say the poem has 9 clues? I’ve heard it from the media and other reports, but not directly from F. I seem to recall the 9 as being “about 9”, though I can’t point that one out directly either.

    I have a pretty good solve and am chomping at the bit to go check it out, but even with my solve it’s hard to pin down what exactly the 9 are.

  30. David, you may be a first time commenter, but you really know how to stir the pot.

    Quote David “has anyone noticed that there are eleven times when Forrest refers to himself in the poem…7 times he uses “I”, three times he uses “my”, and one time he uses me. I’m my opinion, In the line where he uses me, he is telling us to hear all the other times…and letting us know in the next part of that sentence that we will list ten other times he uses “me”…those times are when he uses the word I and the word my…they total 10…could there be something to that? What do y’all think of that idea?”

    In all of the newbees comments I have read yours is a first that was truly objective, so Kudos!

    Now could you, David give your definition of the difference between a clue and a hint? If so why did ff use the word AS to start his poem? Now if you are as bright as your first comment, what was the line that contains ff’s first clue? Why can the little girl from India only solve the first two?

    Tom T

    • Tom T.;

      Although you handed out a Kudo, your next paragraph appears
      to be a real put-down.

      Here, you have a new searcher who has shown a bit of brilliance, and what do you do? You try to belittle or embarrass him.

      If this is a test for David, how about you taking the same test. Why don’t YOU give us YOUR definition of the difference between a clue and a hint. Should be easy for you, you have been a searcher for quite a while.

      This test requires FACTS, and supposition. Are you up to the test Tom T.? Just how TERRIFIC are you?

      Question #2 Tom T.

      If so why did ff use the word AS to start his poem?

      Now TOM T “If you are as bright as your first comment, what was the line that contains ff’s first clue? I want a definitive answer that you can prove.

      Question #3 Tom T:

      Why can the little girl from India only solve the first two?

      Again, I expect a definitive answer that you can prove…

      This forrum is for searchers who are looking for support and answers…NOT put-downs.

      We as a forum of searchers are awaiting YOUR brilliant answers Mr. Tom Terrific.


      • Ok JD, since you feel that my name implies arrogance, which I assure you it does not, please let me explain how and why I am using “Terrific”.

        Terrific is a synonym for me being “enthusiastic” because that is what the THRILL is about. OK I could have called myself Tom Enthusiastic but just didn’t have
        ring or rhyme to it.

        Now to answer what you perceived as a put down on the new guy David, after paying him a compliment, please read it more carefully, he is obviously bright and will get this just as you will if you read with you “feelings and logic”, because you too are brilliant.
        What I wanted to have him absorb, and react to is something which took me years to understand.

        I have hinted, lately and sometimes yelled about the “first stanza” and use of the word by ff HINT (whisper) trying to stimulate everyone objectivity to this rational thought, I feel you and he are bright enough get this.

        I guess I must tell you what I feel unlocks the poem, IMO it is simple and wonder why no one has said this before: ff says their are 9 clues in the poem, furthermore there are HINTS in the “Thrill Book” (only) IF YOU KNOW HOW TO RECOGNIZE THEM! I think, as stated to David “As I have gone alone in there is a “hint”, but IT is a hint from the Book, referenced by the first line in our poem.

        AS we look at this first line in his poem think of what “Litterate1” has posted on this blog, L1 brilliantly stated in reference to “My War For Me” paraphrased; if the mysterious waterfall and clearing in Nam had a attraction for ff it all makes perfect sense and symbolism that this “hint” is AKA “TARRY SCANT WITH MARVEL GAZE” only it is in the Rocky Mountains, not Vietnam. Just reminds ff of that place and time when he was so close to death. Cancer ditto feeling for ff, there is a direct tangent from one place, called home base and ff being IN COUNTRY both in Nam and in the rockies, so where are those at? The best way to understand it is to experience it, which I have. So draw a straight line and you will find that special place and I plan to prove it in June.

        Where the TC was placed in the rockies took a bold move, which also describes a hint in the book if David is as bright as I think he is he might just find it if he has the Thrill Book.

        All 4 of the first lines IMO are hints from the book that confirm when you get the first 2 clues in the next stanza you are on the right path.

        Where everyone seems to be lost is at HOB, but I think they and you and me are simply not seeing past WWWH and Canyon Down.

        Until now, now using the hints that are confirmed in the poem but come into imagination out of the Thrill Book, Brown can now be in tight focus. These are not the only hints IMO, just the first 4. Clues may well begin at WWWH just like Dal and myself believe..

        My solve will not be proven until June because of all the snow there, but I will report
        on my progress again in June with the location, I must travel to Colorado above 37 degrees, and yes there is an X on my spot.

        We shall not cease from exploration
        And the end of all our exploring
        Will be to arrive where we started
        And know the place for the first time.
        Through the unknown, remembered gate
        When the last of earth left to discover
        Is that which was the beginning;
        At the source of the longest river
        The voice of the hidden waterfall
        And the children in the apple­tree
        Not known, because not looked for
        But heard, half­heard, in the stillness
        Between two waves of the sea.
        Quick now, here, now, always-
        A condition of complete simplicity
        (Costing not less than everything)
        And all shall be well and
        All manner of thing shall be well
        When the tongues of flame are in­folded
        Into the crowned knot of fire
        And the fire and the rose are one.

        Tom T

        • Beautifully, and clearly written. Had you used this tone with David last night, you would have garnered a handful of supporters, not a group of people who perceived you to be arrogant.

          With today’s post, you show yourself to be an intelligent and perceptive individual.

          Best of luck in your search in June.

          STAY SAFE


        • Thanks for sharing Tom, that was Terrific.
          Nice way to pan out HOB. Most of us find it to be the most difficult to solve.
          Great to post the whole TS Elliot quote. I learned a lot from that & didn’t know that was just the tip of the iceberg.
          I should do more research.

          • Jake thanks for the comment, I truly respect everyone of the searchers and posters who also would like to be searchers and can’t for economic, physical or any reason that keeps them out’a the Rockies. That is why I went looking for Randy Bilyeu in the mid winter Rio Grande Gorge.

            We may fight about opinions and sometimes have terse comments, however in the end we can agree to disagree and exchange some of the best knowledge that imagination can produce, so just like my days in the Amphib Navy, when we sailors did not always get along with the Marine Corps, when the chips were down, we all stuck together, like a family and fought side by side the good fight against the enemy!

            Tom T

    • I don’t lend any relevance to As…to me, the first clue is the line that says, “I can keep my secret where, and hint of riches new and old. The little girl from India cannot get past the first two clues because the first two clues are the only ones that can be located using a map and google earth…the rest of the poem requires more insight…and in my opinion, if you underestimate the importance of the first clue….you won’t find the second clue…let alone the rest of them. IMO.

  31. Villiam, Who is the “you” of whom you speak? And, how are we to ever know if “you” is having fun, or not?? 🙂

  32. @JD…
    The ten I’s and My’s may tie into the first stanza that states I can keep my secret where…perhaps these sentences hold important information regarding the location or path to the location…

    @Jake and OS2,
    You two are starting to sound like a couple of school yard bullies going at it. Let’s keep in mind that ideas flow freely on this blog and we are all entitled to express our opinions, but nobody is required to buy into them. What is required, or at least should be, is some form of self control and respect for the freedom of speech we enjoy on here. I enjoy reading everyone’s perspectives, even if I think they are incorrect in their approach. Can’t we all just get along?

    • David;

      Welcome to the chase.

      You may have stumbled onto something there.

      I absolutely agree with your comment, “perhaps these sentences hold important information regarding the location or path to the location…”

      Many people overlook this stanza. To me, it holds VITAL information.

      Good luck in your search, and pay no attention to those
      that appear too full of themselves.

      Have fun, and STAY SAFE


  33. Oz,
    My whole point was, if your going to state something that is not fact, then you should say “I think”, “maybe”, “in my opinion” or something along those lines so as not to confuse others here.

    I think the nine clues are in stanzas 2, 3 & 4 between the words old & look.

    • Jake;

      You may not of intended it but what you wrote is kinda revealing.

      You tell Oz, “if your going to state something that is not fact, then you should say “I think”, …

      And then you start you next sentence with, “I think”…are you saying that what follows is ,”something that is not fact.?”

      Just an observation.

      Take care


      • Hey JD, I have a question for you since I know you have been out there. What is your opinion on how the treasure chest is hidden? exposed, in a log, under water, under rocks?

        I know there is another section for the hidey place but I found you here, not sure if you are also over there.

        • “As I have gone alone IN there…”
          has led me to believe that the TC in “IN”
          something. My “IN THERE” includes…
          IN a National Forest
          IN a Grove of Pines and
          IN a stream

          Hope that this answers your question.

          Good luck in your search


        • Thanks JD, I believe it too, though I don’t think is under water. Regardless of where it is, I wanted to bounce this idea with you. Not about the place but about the box.

          You know how ff always says the chest is hidden? He is very adamant with that word ‘hidden’. While scanning some pictures last night I found one where he has this nice large painted leather hide hanging on his wall. I wonder if he wrapped the bronze chest with a leather hide and that is why he calls it hidden. Just an idea, no proof but word-wise it will make sense I think.

          My question to you, will it be any advantage of doing it that way? Can a leather hide protect a bronze box from the elements (sun, water, wind) for a long time, say 100 or 500 years? Or does that don’t make sense?

          • If it is hidden in the desert, wrapping it in rawhide or leather could have SOME effect, but the bronze “box” would survive ANYWHERE. It does not need additional protection.

            There are bronze sculptures and tools that are thousands of years old. Bronze was first used in Mesopotamia around 3300 BC artifacts remain today.

            Bronze will take on a patina, but it will not “rust” or erode due to the effect of elements.

            Bronze is a combination of copper and tin. usually 10 to 1. Having so much copper, over time, bronze will acquire a greenish patina.

            Hope this helps


          • Makes sense to me. Mr. Fenn would be a turkey to risk allowing an 8 or 9 hundred year old bronze chest to be damaged by searchers as they move surrounding rocks hunting for it. I’m sure he doesn’t want a scratched up and damage chest if it were ever to get back to him. Just sayin’.

          • Thanks JD, plus it will just add an additional shade of camouflage that we don’t need right now.

          • SL,

            Yes, I remember seeing that article with that picture but didn’t pay attention to the background. It was in another picture of the same hide where ff positioned himself (I think on purpose) for his head to be on the center of it. Then someone commented that it looked like a halo and that is when I got the idea of the chest being wrapped in a rawhide ‘hidden’.

    • Jake,

      Maybe I should’ve used different words or a more complete idea when making that comment, but I can’t say “imo or maybe” to something I have multiple proof of and directly from the source.

      Besides, I noticed this morning that the comment was taken off the thread so maybe I’ve been told not to share and perhaps keep to myself. That’s what I’ll do and I apologize for any inconsideration on my part everybody.

      • Oz
        Dal has said “if can’t back it up when you put it on the blog then do not blog it or Goofy or him will have to remove it”. Even if you have positive writings always end it with IMO.As i have just done here!
        PS I do agree with that logic as there is already to much wrong being said around the blogs.IMO

  34. David,

    You might be interested in reading the “not just another solution” post on this blog (you’ll have to search it). The method used to arrive at a solution focuses on: who or what is, “I”, “You/r/ve”, “me” and “It”. I found the method used fascinating and unique although it seemed to receive a lot of negative critique from other readers and does not produce a location to the trove.

    • Hi reiteri – That’s a new handle to me – Hello. Thanks for reminding us of that post. Just spent an hour rereading it. That was one of my favorite provocative solves. It actually did result in a lat/long location, but apparently no conquest by SidnCharley (or anyone else to date). Where’d Brock go, anyway?

      Hello also to David, and thanks for sharing your insight. Here’s the link rinteri referred to:
      You may have advanced Brock’s theory. Good luck!

      • Melanie, That’s one of my favorites too. So many different ideas going around! Its been a lot of fun to think about.

    • I respectfully disagree. I, my, and me play crucial parts to my solve…without I, there’s no way to find the treasure. IMO

  35. Signing off for a while, elder parent’s needs call.

    Hoping the school yard has reached detente by the time I return.

    And, that the TC is still out there waiting for my unique solve (which still needs work).

    Looking forward to putting so many faces with names at Fennboree!

  36. I have not put a lot of thought into that. Does the weight of the contents may damage the chest on recovery? Like JD said, and even if we are talking 500 years from now bronze is very durable

    I have not seen the chest up close and I don’t know if the chest is one casted piece or if the bottom was welded in. You say is not wise to insert the whole thing in a back pack? Btw, can you point me to the article (if you have it) that gives us the history of the bronze chest?

  37. oz – I think he paid 26 thousand for the bronze chest I think and with a million dollars worth of coins jewels – to just through dirt on top of it – I think he put it in side of something with a lid that would last a very long time imo

    • Where did you find the $26,000 price?

      I thought CES5 = $35,000

      C = 3rd letter
      E = 5th letter
      S = comma is 2 numbers into price?
      5 = 5 numbers in price

      • Who is Forrest Fenn? In a nutshell, Forrest Fenn lives in Santa Fe, New Mexico where he started an art gallery, raised a family, collects artifacts, writes books and made a fortune. He has hidden aproximately a million dollars of his fortune in gold and gems in an old world, bronze chest pictured to the left (he paid $25K for the chest alone).

        Front page of this site…

  38. timothy ok you found the c did you see the envelope doesn’t the name start with an e for envelope and then you see the 5 on the 5 dollar bill

    • Hey Frank,
      The name “on” the envelope is “Florence”. then looking down I see the five. What is Ce5 ? Also, the word “Puceet” (to me) is spelled backwards and is really “Teecup”. That is associated with international and national “golf”.

      • Frank,
        One more thing, look at the folded corner of the bill. At the very bottom of the fold it has been torn off just a little bit. To me F is telling us to look for an opening or a cave. IMO on both of these

        • timothy – ce5 has something to do with the handle of the chest it has ce5 – but its been along time I don’t remember what it stands for as far as being in a cave ff has said its not in a cave imo

          • Frank,
            Can you back up that statement about FF saying it’s not in a cove? If so where and when/ Please

        • timothy – if tea cup has something to do with golf its a good clue for me thanks

          • Frank, I do believe it’s a hint, but although it’s straight forward, it’s not so straightforward! 😉

          • voxpops- put all to gather and its a good hint or clue- imo ill take it straight forward or not so straight forward lol

          • It has a lot to do with golf, I read a couple of pages about it. I’m glad because it fits in with part of my solve. Above the word “cove” should have been “cave”. That’s important, if ff did say that. eaglesabound I believe it is
            S/B # 107 with the folded $5 bill on it.
            feel free to jump in to the discussion everything is valuable.

          • @Timothy A – I like Scrapbook 107. Rereading several times was one of my breakthrough moments. Did you know the $5 bill has an old nickname similar to a rock formation found at Seven Falls in Colorado Springs? Imagine that.

          • @EC. When are going to prove your solve? Soon? I hope so. Wish you well.

          • @twingem – I think I’m down to the last steps. Understanding what those actually are might as well be a million years from now. Trust me, I’m sick of my posting, too.

          • Well keep at it! Tenacity is a good thing imo. You’ve given me lots to think about in that area.

            Thanks for sharing all that you do. Best to you! And I really mean that – no other hidden meaning.

          • Tim, some of the solutions people have come up with are truly amazing! The amount of brainpower involved is staggering. Some of it goes right over my head, and makes me wish I knew much more about math, literature, geology, anthropology – you name it. I think that if we all put our heads together we might be able to solve some of the world’s most intractable problems!

          • Hello vox, so when are you heading out to your spot? How is it you are confident in your solve? From how you explained it yesterday, I feel you may be confident in the end result but you are not certain how you arrived there. Also saw that $$$ is not as important as the story. Do you care to tell us how you plan to take your adventure. Are you going to bring us along from beginning to end. Can you give us a clue or temperature of your WWWH is or HOB?
            If you do not choose to answer any of these questions I understand. I have stated myself I will not discuss any of my solve.
            Happy hunting!

          • Hello Ace. I’m certain of both the end and how I arrived there, but it was a process of discovery – it didn’t all happen overnight. I had a portion of my solution well over a year ago, but was missing some vital parts – and that left me many, many miles adrift. By putting boots on the ground a number of times, I came to realize where I’d gone wrong, but I had to put in hundreds of hours more thought to finally tease all the info out of the poem. I can’t tell you how relieved and elated I was to finally have a solution that was (as far as I’m concerned) totally complete.

            I shall be heading out just as soon as I’m able – working it in around a transatlantic move that’s currently taking up most of my time and energy. I won’t be providing live updates, but I will certainly tell all if I am proven wrong.

            I’m not going to discuss WWWH or HOB, but I am going to be bringing my tea kettle on the search (can’t go a week without a decent brew!).

  39. I’ve been following the back and forth over the last few weeks with interest, particularly E.C. Waters’ ingenious interpretation – and the reaction to it. I tend to keep quiet now because, like E.C. Waters, my solution is fixed and nothing can shift me (and, understandably, some people find that irritating). However, I was wondering whether I can tiptoe around some of the important revelations in the poem to move the discussion forward. These are opinions only, until proven otherwise, and I fully expect a lot of people to disagree with me (some with venom, unfortunately).

    First, a general point. I have found it far easier to parse the poem first, without recourse to the books. I chose to do this so as to avoid being overwhelmed with possible hints that turned out to be red herrings or dead ends. That said, I have taken most of FF’s public statements into account as a means of testing my theories. And I paid particular attention to Forrest saying that geography is important, but not so much history or codes or other arcane sources.

    After years of not understanding how the heck you can discover the correct WWWH from so many likely contenders, I threw them all out the window and started over. My presumption was that there had to be a definitive way into the poem that did not rely on semi-randomly selecting this all-important clue and hoping to somehow pin the tail on this Rocky-sized donkey. After examining the “big picture” and applying a little imagination, I stumbled across a tiny opening. I was dubious, but persisted, finding that the poem rewarded this approach by offering a possible confirmation (a small morsel at that point, but enough to make me want to continue trying to expand the aperture).

    Then things got difficult. It seemed like I might have run out of luck, but I thought back to an insight related to “your effort will be worth the cold” that I’d had a year or so earlier. That was enough to give me the direction I needed. And sure enough, the dominoes began to fall – in a straight forward manner. Errors that occurred after that were mainly related to a lack of self-belief diverting me away from the narrow path to more “flashy,” obvious attractions.

    It’s only recently that I’ve seen all the confirmations in the poem – things that support Forrest’s exhortation to follow the clues “precisely.” But if you adhere to that maxim, you will find the things in the poem that tell you you’re on the right track – and GE (or another “good map”) will add its own very surprising and exciting support – but you will need to be incredibly precise!

    The thing that people find difficult to accept is that the poem is pinpoint-accurate. You don’t need to consult poetry or history books – the figures are right there in the poem, and I believe they will guide you to the finish line.

    ALL OF THE ABOVE IS IMO, and I am quite ready to eat crow pie with a smile on my face (as much as is possible while stuffing it with such indigestible fare).

    • Hey voxpops,
      Sounds like your pretty confident.
      What do you mean by “the figures are right there in the poem,”?
      Figures as in numbers or?
      Do you feel you have figured the nine clues?
      Don’t worry about my venom. I’ve run out.

      • Hey Jake, yes, I do mean numbers.

        As far as the nine clues are concerned, I don’t really separate them out, as IMO it’s necessary to use nearly all the words from the nine sentences to get the full meaning. I certainly have an end point figured out.

        Hope this helps (but not too much!).

        • Vox,
          If your talking numbers and precision then it sounds like you’re implying coordinates.

          Assuming that is what you mean….if this is the case why then wouldn’t the LGFI be able to determine the same information. For arguements sake let’s not put any limitations on what she might be capable of.

        • …road numbers have intrigued me for a while, but I keep asking myself if the clues should begin at one Or count down to one.

    • Voxpops, that is an excellent way to explain without giving away your solve. It is hard to say what one wants to say without explaining…too much. Would that I could make a statement that good.

      • Thanks, alopes. Apart from the words themselves, finding the right tone is tough, too, as people often misconstrue the sentiment behind the words.

        As far as what I wrote is concerned, I’d love to be able to lay the whole thing out there so that people can really see what I’m talking about – but that would be tantamount to Chase suicide!

        • 🙂 someday, if the treasure is found, I’d love to read different solves and write my own for others to see.

          • I hope the finder partners with dal & goofy to write that book. Proceeds to make-up the expense of hosting this site.

          • Thats good book material Alopes. Release the autobiography and then write another book with the correct solve along with other searchers solutions. That would be an awesome book and a great way to start building g capital for the next chase.

    • Hey voxpox
      Everything sounds very good and looks good on paper. I finally did the same thing, (in a way). I threw all of my notes away (on garbage pickup day) so I couldn’t go to them anymore. Started over clean. First I studied and annualized the poem. I completely tore it apart. Word by word. It has taken the whole winter but I have a POSITIVE SOLVE that I am standing firm on until I can get back over to the Rockies again.. When my wife passed out, out there and hurt her head really bad I really thought about what I want out of this more than anything. It amazed me that $$$$ wasn’t my 1st thought, it is the history that is in that little box that I want the most. Then it is the idea that I could figure this poem out the end. I will go as far as to say that FF has NOT led anyone on the wrong path and it is all about interpretation and imagination. FF has given ALL OF US THE ANSWERS that are need to walk up to the chest and start laughing hysterically. I am dying to tell everyone what I have found out about the poem and how to use the TTOTC and TFTW so that they can see what I see everyday. It haunts me now, because I have my solve and will not work on anything else that could possibly be detrimental to my completion. I am working on the blogs and helping people when questions are asked but that’s as far as I’m willing to go right now.To end this I will say:
      end Quote
      Open your mind to what is read and close your mind to what you know.>>>IMHO

      • Timothy, I like the way you think! And yes, for me, the money is secondary, too; it’s rising to the challenge – and meeting it – that’s my driving force.

        I think that, even though we may be in the minority, anchoring your solution in the fundamentals of the poem is the way to go.

        • Yea Vox
          Your probably right about that but I still enjoy all of the other searchers and their dedication to their own solves. I only hope who rver finds it THINKS before acting. The history is priceless to me, to lose that for the matreial value of the chest would be so devastating to the past, which we all know that the future is dependent on to move forward…IMHO
          Best of Luck on your adventure and remember to be as Safe as you can be.

    • Thanks for the response voxpops,
      Sounds like you have your hands full. I am guessing you are moving to this country. Are you a biologist? Plus your journey involves tents and campfires. Good luck whenever you decide to go. Happy Hunting!

      • Thanks, ACE! I’m not a biologist – more of a chest specialist. 😉

        • Lol I thought it required at least 8 year degree. Lol looks like studying chests is your calling. Who knows may be lucrative in more ways than one. Good luck.

  40. Lets say one of the clues is Where warm water halts. Could there be a purpose for the 3 words “where warm water”, and them having a “w” as their leading letters?
    Like, look for things, words, etc, with more than one W..
    Maybe Fenn is hinting at WWW. Like the beginning of the world wide web. Or simply the internet. And that is where we begin. Search engines, and looking for answers. Everything is pretty much online now. I dont see how it would be impossible to find the general area of treasure chest spot, simply by using the world wide web for answers.

    I have a feeling that the W’s in that line, are very important. Just as the number 9 is important. As he is giving us the number 9 to start our search, and in this line, he is implying where to start in the poem.

    Switchbacks look like W’s from GE.
    Fenns dad’s first name was William. and that starts with a W.
    I would imagine that the name William would have something to do with the correct solve.
    W is the 23rd letter in the Alphabet. 23 is the number associated to where his father was buried.

    So the 9 clues, are maybe 9 different ways to interpret the poem. Or the 9 different sentences in the poem are 9 different ways to read the poem. Each sentence has its own riddle, and all are separated at first, and when you are able to figure out, what each word in each sentence means, then you can start adding things up…
    Example: There is a “theme” that most people says stands out with the wizard of Oz. (Yellowstone/Yellow brick) Lets say that “Brave and in the wood” is hinting at, the cowardly lion, and the tin man… The cowardly lion was not brave, and the tin-man’s name is the tin woodman. The Tin woodsman didnt have a heart. So if you add the cowardly lions bravery/courage that he received from the wizard, and the tinman heart, you get Brave Heart. And that was a movie about William Wallace. This is where the W’s come in. Adding the Lions courage and the tinmans heart is the answer to “Brave and in the wood”.

    Things like this, is what makes me think that there is more to the poem than just the words that you see.

    • Hammer, if you get a chance watch the treasure hunt movie from the early 60’s called “It’s a mad, mad, mad world.”: In the movie the treasure [$350,000] is hidden under the BIG W. The movie is 2 hrs long, they crammed practically every funny-man from that era in the picture.
      Also there’s a big W on the hill facing the college in Gunnison Colo. I emailed the the admin there about the history of the W, they were very helpful…

      • I have heard of the movie, but Ive never seen it. I will try to watch it sometime. Im sure Forrest snuck in alot pop culture that references treasure hunts into his whirlpool of fun. Thanks for that tidbit of info though.

    • Hammertime, the theory of “where warm waters halt” equaling “www.” has been debunked by Forrest himself long ago:

      “…sometimes you can overcook a solution by thinking too much. I am a simple man and www never entered my mind.”

      As Doc reported in March 2013, “I’d say that’s pretty straightforward. I was hooked on that angle for a while, but I hope by posting it here, he’ll get less email about it. Lord knows the man gets enough email…”

      • Zap,
        Can we really trust completely that statement was from Forrest?
        “sometimes you can overcook a solution by thinking too much. I am a simple man and www never entered my mind.”

        I could not find it except here in reply to Doc.

        Doc on March 8, 2013 at 3:57 pm said:

        Here are Forrest’s own words on that, in reply to the question from me: “…sometimes you can overcook a solution by thinking too much. I am a simple man and www never entered my mind.”

        I’d say that’s pretty straightforward. I was hooked on that angle for a while, but I hope that by posting it here, he’ll get less email about it. Lord knows the man gets enough email…

        • Having read all of Doc’s posts last year, I trust him as much as I trust Dal and Goofy.

          • Well zap,
            That’s good for you. I only trust statements directly from the horses mouth.
            Even those statements need to be scrutinized.
            My pop/mentor Peter, told me not to trust anyone & question everything.

  41. For those of you that are unaware, Forrest has posted his weekly post on MW.

    Here it is:

    Mr. Fenn,

    I know you said finding the treasure is out of your hands. But do you think you hid it in a place that it will be found someday? thank you ahead of time for answering my question or giving thoughts about it. ~ John.


    That’s such a forlorn question. Someday is an indefinite and unpredictable time. I don’t dare try to guess when the treasure will be found. I don’t mean to be evasive, but I see I am.f

    Hope that it tells somebody something valuable.

    Good luck to all searchers and STAY SAFE


    • Thanks JD,
      There may be a clue or something chase valuable in there somewhere. I just don’t see it.
      So when are you heading out to your spot?
      Today, tomorrow?

      • Was planning on leaving Friday the 13th, but no one can fit it in their schedules, so we have put it off a week – will search on 21st/22nd.

        Thanks for asking.


        • Forrest has stated that a part of him is in the chest! I believe IMO he’s referring himself as being the chest? sorta………… Well I confused myself lol

          • When you collect things all of your life the places and people take on a special meaning it is part of you that is shared with others these things had special meaning to him we should cherish this treasure not just cash it in for the gold value When you find it give him back the turquoise bracelet

        • Hey. JD
          Glad to hear that your heading out again. Becareful and Stay very Safe through youe endeavor..T

    • Thanks for posting it. I looked at the MW site but I guess I’m only used to navigating HOD.

    • Mustag

      Now that’s a dumb question – JUST KIDDING!!

      forlorn = unhappy, sad, miserable, sorrowful, dejected, despondent;…along with a couple of other obscure definitions.

      Hope thathelps.


  42. SL in the definition that you posted, it included, “unlikely to succeed or be fulfilled; hopeless:”

    Is he saying that the question is “unlikely to succeed or be fulfilled; hopeless:”, or is he saying that the endeavor to find the treasure someday soon is “unlikely to succeed or be fulfilled; hopeless:?”


    Just my thoughts.

    Good luck to all searchers even if Forrest feels that the quest may be, “unlikely to succeed or be fulfilled; hopeless:”….or IS he saying that ??? – I doubt it!



    • Where warm waters halt is a real place it is easy to find… think look beyond your own limits it is real

      • Karen, You also stated today;
        “just the facts use the maps if fourth graders can locate these places so can you.”
        And a minute later this post;
        “Where warm waters halt is a real place it is easy to find… think look beyond your own limits it is real”

        Maybe you can elaborate on those easy finding facts…
        You may have to dumb it down for me, I’m an iSS person.

  43. JD, I’m leaning towards the definition that’s directly below the one you’ve referred to:

    “The phrase originally denoted a band of soldiers picked to begin an attack, many of whom would not survive.” (Mid 16th century from Dutch verloren loop ‘lost troop.”

    What Forrest is saying could be any ones guess.


    • Was the question, like so many others that have come before, doomed to non survival at the quick tongue and mind of Forrest? – It would appear so by Forrest’s (supposed) non-evasive answer.

      • A good question to ask would be why Forrest chooses to answer particular questions at any given time – I doubt there’s a shortage of candidates.

        • @vox – a very good question indeed. Consider the possibility Fenn wants this to be found sooner than later.

          I have kids. I see a possible pattern. If someone is close, but unable to finish the last few steps, wouldn’t you drop additional relevant hints into the aether related to finishing?

          • Steamboat Springs, Colorado certainly holds a great deal of aviation history as well as other areas of revealing interest.



  44. I believe that Forrest has given searchers another tidbit to chew on(just my opinion)…look deeper to see it.

    • I’ll throw my 2 cents in… IMO to be politically correct… One meaning of forlorn is pitiful, is the answer saying, why waste you’re time worrying about a question that has no reasonable answer.

      • could also point to being desperate…(desperate question)
        not what I see though…

        • No offense EC, I just do not comprehend the everything and the kitchen sink method. Fenn may mention a Sgt, then secrets a Dr Pepper, and a clue breaks out in a 1960 – 70 song. Or maybe Lonely refer to a lone, to the lone ranger, which connect to movie and 11 cents becomes a clue… Maybe pepper is a spice and we need to find a clue for cinnamon which relates to Brown…

          If there were that many clues / hints / suggestions / important information needed for the poem… I’ll be the first to say, never in a million years would I be able to solve this poem.

          I’m gonna call it the Drano Method… all it does for me is clog my thoughts.

          • @Seeker – no offense taken. What will you do if it’s where I’m suggesting and for all of the reasons I’m suggesting?

          • Come on Seeker, I already patented this type of solve as the “Kitchen Sink Method”. ha, ha

            Although I got to admit Drano may be more appropriate.

            If you find the treasure where you’re talking about I’ll eat Fenn’s dirty old hat in the middle of Santa Fe plaza and give you half hour to draw a crowd.

          • colokid…that would be somethin’ to see(eating f’s hat) …but, alas that ain’t gonna happen. Too many variables on that one…

          • @ken – you have my attention… what variables specifically seem too complex to you about this theory? It starts with a pirate, it ends with piracy of a different kind, and the path creates a double omega without any of my imagination needed. What variables?

          • Waters…
            the variables I was referring to involved the prospect of colokid getting f’s hat…and then figuring out how to get that pesky barbed wire down his throat.
            Your solve is interesting and I do wish you all the best, and I am sincere about that.

          • @Colokid
            A nice Chianti may do the trick…but you gotta get the hat first ! Back to the 11 clues…I mean 9 clints. never mind…

  45. Pardon the interruption,

    WP won’t send me all the comments anymore so I guess I’m back to the old way of having to sub to every thread.

    You will now be returned to your regularly scheduled discussion.

  46. If I am correct all a person needs at the end is the first clue, but to understand the first clue one has to follow the poem precisely. RC.

  47. In Important Literature, Fenn wrote in TTOTC he was writing his “unauthorized” autobiography. Then he questions if that’s the right word. What do you think? What other words might be the same word for “unauthorized”?

    • E.C. You are a magnet of information with a pointed disposition. Your insight leaves me wondering which unauthorized direction your coming from.

    • It would make sense for him to call his own TTOTC unauthorized if his intent all along was to give the person finding the chest his “authorized” biography in the olive jar and the rights to publish it.

      Things that make you go “hmmmmmm.”

      • @Sourdough – but he was asking us what we think if “unauthorized” was the right word. He was encouraging us to think about other words for “unauthorized” … synonyms. Perhaps “pirated” or “bootleg” would fit a certain desired motif?

        • @E.C. Waters, et al. re: ‘unauthorized’ I think of it as humor with regards to official information and the US Government, need to have approval to disclose past military actions, Operation Arch Light, SAR, etc…it’s a Government word, IMO….

      • How about unapproved?
        I think “it” is about JD’s book & not Forrest’s bio. JD wrote a bio about someone else. Not himself, therefore it’s unauthorized.
        Then again, this is just my personal authorization.

  48. Unauthorized.. Seeing as this has absolutely nothing to do with my solution, I will make a comment. Unauthorized… To not be allowed, to not have permission. Why would ff not have permission to write his own book? I can think of a few words that would certainly fit better. Another dumb thought comes to mind, “unauthored”, a written book with no author. He gave us title to the gold. That to me means he has given us title to the publishing rights as well. So although it is an autobiography, because it will now be your book to publish it would in a sense be a biography.

    • @Med_evac – what about “bootleg” or “pirated”? These are also synonym options.

    • Caution in the wind to the author with a pen, for a written word in secrecy is a word with uncertain bend.

  49. Puzzled on April 13, 2016 at 1:16 pm said:

    Puzzled – way behind on reading the blog, but I think you hit the nail on the head, as they say, in my opinion – that if you do not arrive at the begininng the way Mr. Fenn wants you to arrive, then you will not be in the correct frame of mind to complete the treasure hunt and pick up Indulgence. This is not only about finding a bronze box in the wood, but of seeing what Mr. Fenn is trying to tell us – and why. There’s more to the story than meets the eye, at first casual glance.

    Good luck to all!

  50. Last two lines page 121 and first two on 124… then listen the 11/02 book signing about dad and chase book and memories, in Taos at Mody Dick book store. I do not have an X but I’m digging for it

  51. A Spanish synonym for “laugh”, that which Fenn imagines the finder will do, is “burlarse”. Lmao.

    If you see my Twitter feed @mikebibler, you’ll see a photo of a ponderosa tree with a burl found in Strawberry Fields. Imagine that.

  52. If the ninth clue is Strawberry Fields, how coincidental would it be that Fenn tells us to consider the “what ifs” when a band called “Mindless Self Indulgence” produced a song about Mark Chapman on an album titled “If”? Imagine that.

  53. The first and last stanzas are anagrams. Other clues are hidden within but they are also comlpete anagrams. I wish I could get out sooner than I am able the first few times weather prevented me. Now work does.

      • I respect your POV Will but to take all the letters from the first stanza & last stanza & rearrange them into a smooth flowing coherent poem again seems a little too much for me.

        When you mess with it in this way, you have to ask yourself a question.
        Does the poem still flow elegantly as it did before?
        If the answer is no.
        Then you have your answer.

  54. Fenn says his father introduced him to “grab every banana”. The lyrics to Paul McCartney’s “Hi, Hi, Hi” include lots of words that seem relevant to this phrase.

    Is CE5 two chords, e.g. C and E5?

    • EC Waters –

      Are cords important? Where do they lead you?

      I decided – I want someone to find this. It probably won’t be me. Do I have a viable solve – I think so. Does music play a role. Yes, indeedy. Remember a regret that Forrest said – that he didn’t learn to play the cello?

      Only when you find out who plays the cello – will you be close. What are the odds someone in a solve would play the cello – and yet there it was. When I found it – it was one of those – dancing around the room moments.

      • @inthechaseto – the CE5 letters have me wondering if it is related to one of the most famous final chords in history, the end note of A Day in the Life.

        I’ve read some of your comments from a couple of years ago regarding Bach and Yo Yo Ma. With apologies, I don’t know where you are going with your connection to a cello, but I’d be curious what you believe is the connection from Fenn’s cello regrets to clues in the chase.

        • Inthechase, EC…

          Who am I to deter you from having a fun discussion… and that is not my intent.
          I recall this CE5 being debunked as useful, by fenn.
          fenn used this [ type of code ] to remind him what he he paid for an item[s].

          With that said… I do find it interesting that a label was not place on or tied to an item for that purpose, but engraved into it. Especially when the item has historic value… and this particular item was purchased for one reason… to hide it.

          • To add to your comment, I see an S not a 5. I believe he’s changed an S to a 5 more than once. CES, takes on a whole new meaning. IMO of course.

          • Eaglesabound,

            Some see a carving a a boy on the inside of the lid as well. If either of these ‘seeings’ have importance to the solve… What does that say for the poem having all the information?

          • The poem has the clues, the book has the hints to solve the clues. IMO

          • eagles abound – that is fact from f, not much opinion needed there, IMO. 🙂

            f has repeatedly stated the clues in the poem will take you to the treasure chest and that the hints in the book will help you figure out the clues. f has never said that there are hints in the poem that will help you with the clues in the poem, yet what are so many trying to do?

          • “I can keep my secret where and hint of riches new and old.

            JCM, The word hint is in the poem itself… seemingly tell us we should consider new and old and the riches of that/those.

            It’s kinda hard to relate that the hint in the poem tells us we need the book, especially when fenn stated we don’t need to read the book, and many times in many ways repeats, all the information is in the poem.
            So you can see the confusion when fenn also says; “There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”

            I truly don’t want to get into another debate about ‘what’ a ‘clue’ is to what a ‘hint’ is… yet when you said;
            “f has never said that there are hints in the poem that will help you with the clues in the poem..”

            Well, I pretty sure that is what he did, by saying ‘ and hint of riches new and old ‘- in the poem itself. Other wise why say “you don’t need to read my book, you need to decipher the poem…”

          • Seeker, the way you are explaining the hints vs clues is pretty much how I said that several days ago, and furthermore I stated that until you “feel you have a location (solve)” that the hints which may or may not be in the poem, those which ff has never ruled (hints) out or in the correct solution, however he has stated that hints are sprinkled in the book, if you can recognize them and they will help you with the clues.

            ff also mentioned and I paraphrase, that discounting of discarding word (s) in the poem could be risky, especially since he is hush about hints in the poem, I can easily see a combination of his 9 clues and perhaps another confirming set of HiNTS as many as 5 is my guess.

            So let’s imagine the next to the last line of the final poem stanza “If you are brave and in the wood” I visualize it as a hint for a river named “wood”, or like Aspen or Oak creek etc. Now you get why I think HINT is so important. If it is the case then why would ff use the word “brave”

            If ff ever gets that question asked I hope he will not evade the possibility that the poem has hints too.

            So did you get that Jenny, oh Mysterious One?

            Tom T

          • The CS5 somehow led me to a Mr. Fenn from Idaho during the Nez Pearce war


            One account stated that a trumpet suddenly sounded from the cavalry, causing “astonishment among Whipple’s men and consternation in the camp of the Indians,” that led to their evacuation before the shot was fired “by some impulsive person on the hill.” Frank A. Fenn, “Disarming Looking Glass, An Episode in the Nez Perce War,” Kooskia Mountaineer, May 11, 18, 1927. (Although Fenn was a Mount Idaho volunteer, he may not have been present in this action, judging from his lack of first person usage in describing it, when compared with his account of the subsequent Cottonwood action, in which he took part.)

  55. this is what I don’t understand – if ce5 has nothing to do with the poem then why would he put it on scrap book I it seems kind of funny how one corner of the 5 dollar bill is bent to make a c the envelope for the e and the 5 for a 5

      • yea I know I had read about that a long time ago Goofy still I was just wonder – thanks for your reply

      • @Goofy – not being one to typically challenge you, it has remained peculiar to me since the discussion started a couple of years ago that he chose the word “phrase” instead of “engraving” or “characters”, while the word “value” also has a distinct definition related to music theory. But I will let it go after this observation is suggested because it’s also just a theoretical connection I am considering. And short of Fenn “pamming” me, I continue to look for strong evidence (other than not being able to find it on my own attempts) to disprove my theory. This was just one of those attempts. Plus Seeker makes a great observation. Why attach an engraving of a “phrase” to the box unless it has a meaning?

        • Don’t go by my observations… I’m blind in one eye and can’t see out the other.

        • E.C., I don’t mind being challenged, Seeker has been challenging me for years. If you want to go off on the tangent that CE5 means something go ahead. I just want it to be clear that Fenn has stated it means nothing.

          I have believed for years that one will have to be on location to solve the poem. His latest comments have confirmed that in my opinion. Fenn’s whole life has been about exploring. Flying the canyons of the southwest in his jet, taking off on a couple horses with his buddy when he was a kid, cranking up his Piper Malibu Mirage and heading north not knowing where he was going to land. He wants to get us out exploring. That’s the whole premise to the chase.

          Apparently we can figure out the first two clues from home; but only from there, at the beginning, can we proceed with confidence when we figure out the rest of the poem. Just my opinion.

  56. OFF TOPIC:
    At the top of this page, right under the header photo is a row of menu items..
    Rules…Cheat Sheet…Searchers of Note…etc

    One of the items in that row is “Fennboree 2016”
    If you hover your mouse curser over that item you will reveal a dropdown menu.

    Sacha just added a Fennboree Schedule and a sign-up list for Saturday’s pot-luck lunch.

    If you are attending Fennboree this year you will want to check out those pages.

  57. Wisely waddling up maps results in a blaze. Page 60. Or maybe wisely Using maps…….

      • If your old enough, you’ll know the expression…
        Use your ‘horse-sense”… which is what they did.

  58. The following is my opinion. We, as searchers and researchers, are caught up with our own opinions that we fail to understand what Mr. Fenn has done with the poem. We have not solved the poem because we are not putting the effort to understand it. The poem directs exactly where it is, but we keep underestimating the poem. We keep finding excuses why the poem is so difficult to understand. I do believe that the poem will lead somebody to the treasure, only and only if they use the right kind of imagination. Simple imagination that is. Kids have this kind of imagination, so they have an advantage over us adults. That being said the first clue is the beginning of the poem. This beginning will take a person to the beginning of the the physical search. This is my opinion and opinion only.RC

    • I detect a hint of resistance in this statement, hmmm. Thank you
      RC and IMO only.

    • Eh, who cares about the poem… we’re too busy determining the tax consequences associated with finding the loot, contacting Vegas casinos to see who will pay the most to display it, and picking out the perfect tattoo to commemorate the thrill of the find (TOTF).

    • RC,
      ” We have not solved the poem because we are not putting the effort to understand it. The poem directs exactly where it is, but we keep underestimating the poem. We keep finding excuses why the poem is so difficult to understand. ”

      I’ll give credit where credit is due… at least you didn’t use fenn’s words. However you’re saying exactly what fenn has stated over the years, just in your own words…
      difficult but not impossible,
      one Important possibility,
      Knowing about head pressure, bible verses, codes, drones etc. won’t help,
      find it mostly by imagination,
      if followed precisely will lead you,
      Ignore the first clue.

      So it begs the questions, Why does the poem elude all? What is it were all missing?

      RC- “We, as searchers and researchers, are caught up with our own opinions that we fail to understand what Mr. Fenn has done with the poem.”
      That is an understatement…
      So, ‘what has fenn done with the poem’?

      • IMO everyone wants the poem to be hard to understand. That is why we can’t solve it. A child has the advantage of not over complicating things. The simplest solution is the best solution. But that would just be to hard to believe.

      • Seeker –

        I have always admired your posts here……. I think you have a great deal of common sense… but, sometimes I just want to shake you and say – why, after all this time, don’t you get it.

        YOU must work the poem………put it together with the book. Dang… Build an answer to the puzzle. It’s there !
        If, you don’t think there are hints in the book – which guide you to the clues in the peom – then you will be forever floatin around in the dust.

        THAT – IMO, is what most here, including you, are missing.

        IMO it CAN be done without the book – but you will have no way of checking yourself and it will be harder.

      • Inthechase,

        I don’t mind a shake down…
        However I was wondering I you can explain fenn’s comments… you don’t need to read my book, you need to decipher the clues… And all the information is in the poem.
        While fenn has stated the book will help with the clues, they are subtle unintentional hints, the book as reference…

        “YOU must work the poem………put it together with the book. Dang… Build an answer to the puzzle. It’s there !”
        You make it sound like the book is necessary. How do you explain the “don’t need to read my book” comment.

        If I use my common sense, it’s telling me, The book is not as necessary as most hope it to be. I would like to ask another question, It’s a simple question really, How do you summarize the TOTC book?

        • How do I summarize the book? Humm……it’s the way to the puzzle. It has your hints – and most of the chapters are important – but not all of them. Forrest tells you “how” to do this in the poem – it all works together.

          Together is a wonderful word. If we really explore Forrest and his personality – he is first and formost a people person. If you get this – it will lead you to the treasure IMO.

          • PS Seeker – all of FF’s comments work with my solution. Each and every one of them. I have always found him to be truthful.

          • “PS Seeker – all of FF’s comments work with my solution. Each and every one of them. I have always found him to be truthful.”

            You didn’t explain Fenn’s comment on ‘you don’t need to read my book, you need to decipher the clues…’

          • Goog lord Seeker –

            You said ” You didn’t explain Fenn’s comment on ‘you don’t need to read my book, you need to decipher the clues…’

            As I said above………..
            It can be solved without the book. It can also be solve with the book. With the book is easier and also has a way of double checking yourself.

            If you still don’t have the book – I suggest you get one. Make it easy on yourself.

          • Inthe,

            You said: “If you still don’t have the book – I suggest you get one. Make it easy on yourself.”

            So it sounds like you’re saying the poem is easy to solve once you have the book? Doesn’t seem to be so for those of us who do own a book.

            And you said: “IMO it CAN be done without the book – but you will have no way of checking yourself and it will be harder.”

            How can you check yourself (to tell that you are correct?) if you don’t have a TC in your possession? Are these the gossamer “correlations” that many believe they see? The possession of the chest is the only proof of correctness.

            You’ve been implying that you have a correct solve for a couple of years but there seems to be a lack of tangible evidence they your method is superior to the approach that Seeker takes….IMO.

          • Inthechase,

            Jake kinda explained it well… If one uses the book to ‘find’ hints to help with the clues, that seems to lead to force fitting a conclusion…
            If one uses the book as confirmation, then not so much. The thing I see happening is [ and I’m sure you see it as well ] A reader see something in the book, such as the word cold or water, and now works that story or sentence into a theory.

            That is why I asked about summarizing the book, you said, “it’s the way to the puzzle. It has your hints – and most of the chapters are important – but not all of them. Forrest tells you “how” to do this in the poem – it all works together.”

            This is where I think most fall for hints has ‘needed’. With that said I also see that the poem could do exactly as you stated… the poem tells the reader how to read the book… to pull out hints that can help with interpreting the clues. But that is only going to happen if one understands the poem first…[ note; understands the poem overall, not a solution to the clues ] So I think we’re on the same page with this thought.

          • I agree with what you’re saying, Seeker. I would just add that in addition to understanding the poem in an overall sense, it’s just as important to find the way into the poem, IMO. Once you have that, you can make a start. I would also suggest that you can approach it from two different standpoints – both equally valid. Again, only an opinion.

        • I think what Seeker is trying to say is you don’t need the book because it’s much more difficult to find the actual clues/hints in a book with thousands of words not to mention pictures paintings & symbols, you may be more likely to cloud the poem.

          If all you need is the poem, then there has to be something in there that relates to a place or thing that would relate to where it is.
          I get that Seeker & the poem has less text to sift through.

          • That’s a good summary, Jake.

            I think the problem lies in people trying to find the clues in the book (and elsewhere) without really taking on board the poem as the first port of call. If the book, scrapbooks etc. are mainly used for checking AFTER coming up with a solution to each clue, that may be a better way to go. Of course, some people may be able to correctly guess at F’s meaning for a clue without recourse to the poem, but that’s a risky game IMO, and is unlikely to be repeatable on nine occasions.

            In addition to that, my personal take on it is that the poem is self-verifying anyway. If you have solved it in one “direction” it should be possible to use another method to come up with the same answer. Of course, I understand that’s a controversial point of view, but it has worked for me, so far…

          • Thanks voxpops,
            I also like to think of it this way.
            If you take the poem & pin it on a wall & throw a dart at it. What are your odds of pinning the word that is key, not “words”?

            Now take the books with all text printed on one side of a sheet & pin all the pages to what will be a huge wall & step far away & fire away with a dart.
            What are the odds you will be on the right page even though the poem is only one page?
            There’s a problem though.
            Your throwing the dart at the poem from 12′.
            Your throwing the dart on steroids at the book pages from 200′.

          • Throw your dart at page 132.
            “containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure:”

            Got to be directions to follow.

        • Seeker – I honk your question is legitimate about these statements, how does one account for them.

          They stand in complete contrast to f’s other comments about hints in the book and his saying if your serious, and the best advice he can give for finding the chest.

          So what do you think, can all these statements be reconciled together or do you think f is just talking out both sides of his mouth sending us all in a tailspin?

          Is it possible people are reading too much into these statements beyond the context of the answers as compared to the questions that spawned the answers?

    • Maybe kids will be able to get the composition of the poem itself the ‘wiles of nature’ but word meanings and maps need further research.

    • RC,
      I agree with the first half of your statement. I’ve said it many times but bears repeating that, IMO, frustration at failure to solve/understand the poem leads people to far flung and extravagant solutions….Kitchen sink solves. Yes, Fenn tells us to go back to the poem. That should be the focus.

      Now lets talk about all the statements here about kids having an advantage. I see no evidence of that. Are there kids on this blog providing insight? If so I’m not aware of it. I know people have approached children for ideas but I’ve not heard anyone say they got anything usable. Show me something useful about the Chase that is kid inspired.

      IMO the “kids have an advantage” statements are unfounded speculation at best.

      Disclaimer: Not slamming kids (I have kids)…… just saying.

      Sure I’m goin to get it for this post.

      • I think you’re correct – up to a point – Colokid. IMO, there’s no way the average kid could interpret the poem on their own, but I suspect that there’s one clue that a kid’s imagination could help with – theoretically. However, I very much doubt that a kid has helped advance anyone’s solution yet.

        • Hello voxpops, I read some of your posts and noticed you are moving overseas not moving to the states. When are you planning your search and will you be able to do it before your big move. Plus if you solve the poem why have you not just went and got the chest. Only thing I could think of is snow. Most snow is now gone isn’t it? Good luck on your search and your new life overseas. I hope it is as exciting as it sounds.

          • Ace, thanks for your good wishes! You hit the nail on the head with snow. I left it too late around Thanksgiving, and then tried to get out there in March – if you read the story I sent Dal, you’ll see the results of that little expedition! Now, I’m frantically busy preparing for the move, but hope to get out there again very soon. And yes, we’re moving out of the States.

          • I would love to see the story you sent Dal I am not as good moving through these pages as others like P Denver if you can send me a link or explain better how to find it

          • Never mind I found it it is the one that says down but not quite out? I actually read a piece of that I will finish reading the rest thank you

      • @colokid, blanket statement are always tough imo. What one gets from the poem and books and scrapbooks, etc., depends on the person, their experiences, and the way the are wired in response to the world imo. My son gave me a very profound and simultaneously simple wwwh… I think he is 100% correct. Can’t share it yet, but will after we’ve put botg.

        Again, I think we are each as unique as snow flakes, so what we each see and think must be too from my perspective. That’s the beauty.

  59. RC:

    Seems your message rolls around every few months and has been around for years. Your are correct, in my humble opinion. All the others dance around with infinite possibilities, but ff wanted it simple, but difficult. His true wish is to get us out exploring. That’s what it will take, along with a little imagination. Not being young, that’s what I lack. The clutter of being older. Of course, all in my humble opinion.
    Good luck to all. Be safe

  60. I recieved my copy of tots yesterday. After reading it, the treasure is in or around Yellowstone. Maybe a waterfall, not sure but he said it is a place that means a lot to him and he spent a lot of time there. So much for mt brown in Montana. Back to square the ne

    • Will –

      Look in Colorado – the waterfall is there – the hot springs is there – home of brown is there – it all fits like a glove. Start in the right place ! all is IMO…………

        • all in your Op of course?

          So was “My War for Me”

          Some times the best place to hide something…is in Plain Sight. “I never said it’s buried, I never said it isn’t buried. “f’


      • @inthechaseto – not knowing your solution or if it comes close to my theory, why Colorado?

        Can we deduce that it is possible Fenn may have spent time at Seven Falls passing through midway point each summer, and perhaps while in USAF academy and training? I wouldn’t weight this as the reason it would be special to him, except that how it all falls into place could become very special.

        • OK E.C. –

          I’ll tell you – Seven Falls is not it. It has nothing to do with his time in the airforce -and I will tell you it is very findable online. Do the research – it’s there……………

          • @cholly – I haven’t read anything either. Just deducing he could have found himself there while training.

    • Hello Will, Mt Brown is your HOB? Yes I can see that being very cold nearly year round.

    • To Will and all,
      Don’t give up no matter where you think it might be. Just because Forrest has not mentioned in a book or an interview of various places does not mean that there is not a place sacred to him but just not mentioned. IMO and I could be wrong here but isn’t there a nice fishing spot on the Madison that he’s not telling anyone. That is fishing so imagine how he may feel about his so called hidey spot. Maybe whomever finds it Forrest can take them on a private fishing trip. That would be nice huh?
      Happy hunting!

    • Sorry, but have ask, where ( book, tv, radio) does he say he spent a lot of time there, you were talking about the special place of the Treasure chest right.?

    • Sorry, but have ask, where ( book, tv, radio) does he say he spent a lot of time there, you were talking about the special place of the Treasure chest right.?

  61. The “right” kind of imagination; simple imagination.. will often = A child’s imagination.

    Returning to childhood memories of days spent at the ocean with my cousins; some original thoughts I’ve rediscovered aided by Forrest Fenn’s TTOTC poem, continue to take me back to some of the most creative and wondrous adventures of my life! How foolish I feel for having too frequently, ‘deserted’ these precious memories.

    Time to start “Building castles in the sand.”


    • IMO, there is absolutely nothing “simple” about a child’s imagination… in fact, I believe a child’s imagination is infinitely more complex than that of an adult.

      “Every child is an artist, the problem is staying an artist when you grow up” – Pablo Picasso

    • It he book reminded me of my BB gun when I was a kid. My brother bent the barrel so I sawed 3 inches off .and my site was off just like his. And adjusted for it.

      • my old Winchester pump 22 always shot low and to the left,,but it was consistent so i just aimed hi and to the right a little and could shoot the heads off of matches at 25 yards. That was a long time ago, now it takes 25 yards just to keep my sights from getting blurry. I have to use a scope now and it takes a lot of fun out of it.

  62. There is no sense in looking for the treasure if there is not a high degree of certainty of knowing where it is, unless you are looking for the chase as opposed to the treasure. If someone is guessing where the treasure is , then they are wrong. It is my opinion and opinion only. RC.

    • @RC – I fully agree with this comment. The term “confirmation bias” people are throwing around is more useful in pharma research than in puzzle solving. Here it’s nothing more than simple disagreement with a proposed theory that someone is pitching to gather confidence to invest. I can’t stand armchair psychologists and their bs assessments.

      • Confirmation bias? Ah yes where one sees what they want to see. This term has been used here before. In a court of law it is used regularly to convince a jury that a witness did not see what was true. It can be a very effective way to mislead and deceive if used with malice. Trust yourself first and confirm your own assessments.

  63. Forrest said he sprinkled hints in his book. Has anyone ever tried to read a book outdoors even in a drizzle… gets pretty wet doesn’t it??

  64. Here’s a imaginary solve of HOB. It pushes the Stupid Meter a little further to the right, but you never know…….

    We know FF isn’t fond of authority and the Park Service in particular, and we know he will “stick it to the man” if provoked. He also said somewhere that he was “grinning from ear to ear” upon returning from stashing the chest.

    Could “home of Brown” refer to a Park Rangers facility? We call baseball umpires “Blue”.

    I could see FF sneaking below their offices after hours (with a flashlight) and hiding the chest under their noses. On one hand, I can’t see him wanting to use that spot as a final resting place, but you would be “up a creek without a paddle” if caught. You would also want to tarry scant.

  65. Who believes the blaze stanza holds a clue? Is it possible that this stanza is a barren filler?

    • There is people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that is one of the clues, but, you can’t start in the middle of the poem and find the treasure, I don’t think, I mean it would be a miracle if they did.

      I feel pretty safe saying that there is at least one clue in that stanza…

      • IMHO the ‘Blaze’ is a crux clue, one of the keys to the whole shebang. I do think, though, that there are other words placed in the poem that are minor clues and that the words were chosen more for the rhyme than for crucial directions….

      • What I like about that comment… you can’t start in the middle of the poem and find the treasure… What I take from that is, the middle of the poem is not the end of the clues.

    • To answer your questions… I do. And no.

      First it informs you there is a blaze.

      If you’ve been wise (possibly sage)… you’d have wiki’d sagebrush. Then there was that scrapbook about Peggy’s spice drawer, I don’t remember its #, but I wonder if sage was among the spices, or was it missing (Like Colorado).

      And that’s just the first line.

    • david imo I think that forrest uses other words to hide the real word – ill give you an example and its just my opinion- like to me the word – canyon down – means south – put in below to me means – north – the end is ever drawing nigh – the end is farther away and to the left – so I think that the blaze- means place- and so on – this is just my opinion and that’s all it is – you take it from here

    • David- There definitely is clue in this line! Take the words”wise and found” and word smash them into “downside”! This works else where in the poem too! Like “new and old” gives you “downland”! Give it a try and see what you come up with…

  66. Any help appreciated…

    Weather vanes. What the ???

    Spanish translation for blaze = gritar a los cuatro vientos.

  67. Cynthia added a new weekend schedule update to the Fennboree pages. Please read and make suggestions if you can…
    Go to the top of this page and look for the Fennboree 2016 tab under the header photo…hover over it with your mouse and click on the Weekend Schedule sub-menu…

  68. I posted this elsewhere in response to another post but I think it belongs here more:

    Does anyone else wonder if the we get hung up on what is and is not a clue and trying to make it fit for 9? Not saying there is not value in breaking things down in sections but functionally speaking I am beginning to wonder why I (or anyone else for that matter) have fixated on that so much.

    So a barrage of rhetorical questions for those who would like to entertain this idea with me.

    #1: If you hit all the points be there 2 or 3 or even 4 in stanza number two and ended up put in below a home of brown does it really matter how many clues there are?

    #2: Is my definition of clue the same as Fenns definition of clue?

    #3: If you think that you have a different definition than Fenn for the word or idea of a clue is it possible to find a clue that could help you that Fenn did not consider a clue or useful

    #4: If you think that you have a different definition than Fenn for the word or idea of a clue is it possible that you do more harm to your solve than good by attempting to unnecessarily define and organize something that is already in its intended order and designed flow?

    #5: What do you personally gain by “numbering” your clues?

    #6: Does this if taken too far go against Fenns advice of *Don’t let logic distract you from the poem.”?

    *** “DYS”claimer *** I am not in any way shape or form attempting to imply or insinuate that Fenn lied or is somehow responsible for our misuse of the tools he has given us.

    • IMO… Counting clues helps to force fit a solve… it limits the use of the poem as a whole. It doesn’t matter if you look at words as clues or lines or sentences. To over simplify the poem is the problem I see… example there are many WWWH. Yet we still look for a single place to represent that line. Logically this seems to say, if there is more than one, I need to find the right one. Or could Imagination say, do they all work together?

      Logically the line Begin it where warm waters halt, seems to say start here, a single place. Imagination may say, it all revolves around waters. The funny thing about imagination is dreaming of the possibilities involved. The poem is to lead us to “the treasure” Yet fenn stated he left his “trove” for all to seek. Logically this seems to be one in the same, but imagination brings in another possibility, something else we were told the poem would lead us to…

      “Forrest, Did you intend for there to be 9 clues, or did it work out to be just right with 9? ~ halo
      Nice thinking halo, I didn’t count the clues until the poem had been finalized. Although I changed it a few times over the months I think the number stayed about the same.f”

      Logically counting clues didn’t seem to be important to fenn until after the poem was finalized… I imagine that will be good enough for me as well.

      • Regarding the number of clues in the poem… IMO there are a great deal more than nine. So I conveniently threw out counting. It may be productive to offer a different perspective. What if forrest had stated there are yellow clues in the poem? (And think he mentions yellow frequently in the memoirs.)

    • We should try to understand a clue like Forrest has described, which is something that helps us get closer to the chest. So, there are nine things in the poem that helps us get closer to the chest from Forrest prospective. Are all of the clues physical places? If some of the clues are physical location how does he describe those locations, with one word, with one line in the poem, or with one sentence in the poem? It could be different for each clue depending on what the clue is. If a clue helps you to get closer to the chest then most likely the clue is more then a single word and probably at lest a few words.

      The words few and several seem to be more of a matter of opinion, one could see how Forrest views these words with how he uses them in context.

      Are there a few clues in stanza 2? Depends on what one is searching for, if you are searching for “it” there’s likely to be less then a few or just one.

        • Thanks Dal
          I’ve spent a lot of time preparing myself like so meny around here have. There is so many things to go over as far as after poem comments and questions. I know none of those are going to get me closer to the chest but it does help one look at the poem in a way very much different than the first few times it’s read by a searcher. My hope is when I’m in the correct location I’ll be able to see the poem in the landscape before me. The best tool for imagination is a open mind.

  69. I have some idea what the clues are. I’ve found a number system that allows lines to be paired differently and it makes more sense. You walk down to a creek and follow it to where it ends in a waterfall. Or Rapids. The direction to the waterfall has to be downstream as you aren’t paddling up it. The likelihood is that this is where you find the blaze that will point you to the location you must head to next. Having some idea about what the blaze could be would be useful.

    • “allows lines to be paired differently and it makes more sense”…doesn’t that constitute messing with the poem?
      There’s is a ‘number system’ I like the think that is more practical, which is road or highway numbers. Not sure if we’re suppose to count down to 1 or begin there and count to 9. Could a good old highway last indefinitely? I can’t imagine they’ll change the number on pacific coast highway (1)

      • I doubt they would ever change the number of the PCH 1… but they might retire the number after it falls into the ocean… Sorry not funny just kiddding!!! I need some more coffee. Tuesday Mondays are hard 🙂

  70. Down the canyon- down canyon road. It leads right out of St. Fe. Warm waters could be a shallow spot. Ends- lake or waterfall.

  71. Count and Dal, good read, lots of thought, so in a paraphrase ff mentioned that he wrote the poem first, then he counted the clues, the odds of each sentence being a separate clue is very unlikely since that would suggest the reverse of his stated method, write first, count second, only a slim chance statistically that could happen, but what probably did happen, since ff says his intention was never to mislead, he had incorporated hints which nest among the clues to confirm.

    Tom T

    • T0m T, In my opinion the nine clues are the nine sentences. The reason I say that is because if you count all the word phrases that seem to give some kind of clue it totals more than nine. Each sentence could be considered one clue even though it may hold more than one hint. Look at stanza two and tell me why Forrest wrote it using two sentences and then look at stanza one. It seems like Forrest could have made stanza two with just one sentence also. I don’t think Forrest wrote this poem wanting us to decipher what is a clue and what is not. I believe his clues are the sentences and that he knows how hard they are going to be to understand. IMO.

  72. With respect to the number of clues…
    IMO, the poem could have included only a few (perhaps 3) clues, but the quest would then have been next to impossible, and not just “difficult.”
    Or, IMO, the poem could have included many (perhaps 15) clues, but the quest might then have been solved rather quickly, with the aid of the additional information.
    IMO, 9 clues is about right for a challenging, but not impossible, quest. (Especially when one considers the additional hints which are in the book, and in the poem itself (which, after all, is also in the book.))
    By the way, IMO, the sentence structure of the second stanza is important.
    Also, IMO, the blaze stanza contains a clue, but the others must be found first.
    Safe searching, everyone!
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  73. As many of you already know my take on what the Poem is all about. The number 22 seems to come to play.. not sure if I am figuring it out correctly. Well, maybe I need to go back to the drawing board.

  74. Heinrich Schliemann, 1822 – 1890……A pioneer without benefit of formal education in the field of archaeology. (His controversial method in excavation of nine levels of archaeological remains is the stuff that makes for a great movie!)

    I’m of the opinion that FF and Heinrich had a bit in common!


    • I guess you could call him a hack, but at the time he was pioneering an idea. Hindsight is always 20/20 they say.

  75. imo – here are my 9 clues that I think will lead me to the chest

    2nd stanza – begin it has 4 clues
    3rd stanza has 3 – from there its no place for the meek
    6th stanza has – 2 so hear me all

    stanzas 1-4-and -5 – will not lead you to the chest
    they have something to do with hiding and finding the chest all this is just my opinion

      • alopes – stanza 4 does not give you directions to find the chest – you are already there imo

  76. This a excellent time to explain something that I have discovered months ago and I have been quiet. Its only my opinion yet it is about my first two clues of the nine I have identified.

    “The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues. There are many disabled people who are deeply into maps and geography, and they are having a lot of fun.”

    So the reason why she cant get any closer is because she can purchase the first two clues and so can everyone else.

    I will write more about who the two men that can keep a secret very soon, because they are still alive and them other 7 are dead.

    Just my opinion here for a fee.

  77. The following is my opinion and opinion only. Please listen well. I want to discuss about the first clue. I see all clues as directions. The first set of directions, or first clue in this case, are the most important because one needs a starting point, place, or a where, where to start. The beginning of the poem is the first stanza and that is self evident, and this is a fact, and not my opinion. If this stanza is of no use why would Mr Fenn put it there?My opinion is that this poem is a puzzle, and when a searcher discovers where, and how to start her, or his search if they move from there they will lose. It is my opinion and my opinion only. RC

    • RC,
      Exactly what do you mean by a puzzle?

      Fenn has made comment[s] on the first clue and now where to start. I think they work together but mean two different thing.

      Lets work off your comment that the first stanza is the beginning of the “poem”… Well sure it is! But is it the “know where to start” when a physical search is involved? the clues are told to be in consecutive order in the poem, the clues are told to be contiguous… does that mean in the poem or in the field?

      While I believe stanza one has important information { clues / hints or info aside ] why can’t the know where to start be in a different point of the poem while the first clue be where it may be in the poem.

      Example; most believe 9 line are none clues… I can see that… and the first “clue” is begin it WWWH… I can see that as well.
      BUT, why does the “know where to start” have to be the first clue? Would it simply mean ~ here is where you need to be to find the first clue [ in the field ].

      Could the question in the poem be the answer to “know where to start” and the first clue be at that answer? Nail down the first clue at the correct spot…

      Folks what the “know where to start” and the “know what the first clue” means to be the same… Folks want the “poem” to be in consecutive order just like we we’re told the “clues” are.

      Now back to your puzzle… can you explain how a “puzzle” works or are you using the word in a general sense?

  78. Why the little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues; WWWH and Take it in the Canyon Down; is because at this point you need to get out of your car and walk. FF combined a disabled post; “didn’t make sense” but now I understand why he inserted this.

  79. imo – this is my take on the poem

    begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down
    not far but to far to walk put in below the home of brown

    from there its no place for the meek the end is ever drawing nigh
    there’ll be no paddle up your creek just heavy loads and waters high

    as I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold
    I can keep my secrets where and hint of riches new and old

    so why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek
    the answers I already know ive done it tired and now in weak

    so hear me all and listen good your efforts will be worth the cold
    if you are brave and in the wood I give you title to the gold

    if you’ve been wise and found the blaze
    look quickly down your quest to cease
    but tarry scant with marvel gaze
    just take the chest and go in peace

    this is all in my opinion—– frank

  80. I’m going to take a shot in the dark with this but with the key players at Fennboree I’m guessing there will be nothing new for several days 😉

    • @William – a lot of cool and thoughtful talent is there and likely without cellular. So I tend to agree.

  81. @anyone – Sometimes it seems that the things I’m attempting to locate have either disappeared or I’m simply too stupid to find them. I need help with a short item that FF wrote about having a leak in his basement. I believe he wrote about water on his cement floor. Where is that story? Please … does anyone else remember?

    • Hello Becky from WV. I wish I could help, but I’m wondering where it is at, also. I’ve read about it from other searchers. Looking forward to others guiding us.

      • Becky and pd, I have no idea where in the book, but I would guess it would lead you into the Southern Rockies, so says a close friend of mine. Good luck, wish I could have been more helpful.

        • Hello strawshadow. Thank you for your help. I greatly appreciate it. Is Mr. Fenn’s quote/comment in TTOTC or TFTW?

    • Becky,

      David here

      Deep thinking searcher.

      Remember Mr Fenn said it isn’t the ones who post, its the one who whispers, or something like that.

      I bet no one at the fennboree, stopped to gaze at the moon last night, at 8:59 santa fe time it was special.

      Anyway look here:

      David here

      • my apologies. I did not read down and see David had already provided the link….mea culpa! 🙂

        • Hello locolobo. Had to use the dictionary to understand what “mea culpa” means. Learn something new every day. Will I remember tomorrow? Count my blessings I’ll remember in the next hour. 🙂

      • Hello locolobo. How do you get to cut and paste the exact quote? I would have done it like David here did…the entire page.

          • Hello JCM. Thank you so much for this information. I greatly appreciate it. Now I just need to figure out how people are able to make comments to others, after I’ve posted hours before to the same person, yet their comments are directed immediately under the person who made the original post. Not sure if I explained it clearly. Let’s say you made a post and I was the third person to comment under it. Hours go by and other people have commented, too. Then someone comes along and makes a comment to you, but their comment goes directly under your original post. I’m not sure if it’s because people “subscribe” to the post and each comment they receive in their emails, they can respond individually to that specific comment, hence being able to go directly under the comment. I really don’t know.

      • turns out i’ve been looking for an address to send in a few postcards down to- after a misconnection in santa fe, i feel so compelled to send them- does anyone know if thats a po box f could actual receive mail there?

      • @locolobo, becky…

        Thanks for the link. I remember giving this one a little thought back then, but apparently not enough.

        Funny, I now think I understand why Fenn posted that. I believe he was trying to raise awareness to the conversation that had previously happened on the same thread regarding the word “clew”. By using the word “knoyledge”, where “knoyl” is a Yiddish word for “clew”, I believe he was trying to get us to focus on homonyms, like Scrapbook 107.

    • Hello, Becky from WV,
      This may be what you are looking for:

      Forrest Fire on June 21, 2014 at 7:30 pm said:
      I’m getting dizzy, will someone please send me an Extra Strength Tylenol. My address is:
      Forrest Fenn
      PO Box 8174
      Santa Fe, NM 87504
      To my knoyledge that’s the only PO box I have now. The other one I had halted when hot water poured out of my hot water heater onto the cold cement floor.

      Hope that is helpful. (Possibly a Nine Clues entry?)
      “Have flashlight, will travel”

  82. @anyone – The item I’m trying to locate was like one of FF’s scrapbook entries … or vignettes or speed bumbs or some such place. There was a picture with the short statement that showed a crack in a wall or a leaking pipe … something like that. It may also have shown the water on the floor. I just can’t remember. Why do these things get removed? Who does that? More importantly … WHY?

    • Maybe you would have better luck asking Dal or Goofy, they run this blog.
      IMO of course

  83. Does anyone know where Dal quotes ff as saying it took 15 years to write the poem, that it is “perfect”, and “don’t mess with the poem”. Or what Dal’s exact words were? Is there any info on when ff began writing the poem? Was it before or after his cancer diagnosis? Was he originally writing it just for himself, did it have a requiem purpose, was it composed solely for the treasure hunt? Thanks.

  84. Recently someone has been impersonating Forrest on Facebook. Forrest asked me to point out that he has not posted on Facebook and he has not posted recently on any blog other than Jenny’s and this one.

  85. I thought I would call a dear friend of mine tonight. She and I talked about my trip to the VA clinic today to discuss a few options. I have been assigned a female doctor and I meet her husband back in December, who was also a doctor at the VA and he was covering her for that day. We made plans then to make sure things will go easy but it has to be done at my age. So all was good except with a few patchy situations I will need to deal with for 3 months.

    So after a long discussion with my friend and asking her a few questions, I kept hitting the speaker button to better understand. Anyway here is the hint to what WWWH is all about. Actually, its the entire stanza.
    “In Germany my squadron flew the F-100C and I sat alert with an atomic bomb under my wing.”

    So this line and the girl from India story confirms that this is the painting that I have identified. Now how cool is that he says. Very cool and now I feel better.

    Oh yeah, Just my opinion.

  86. All,

    Thought I would post here because everyone else posts in Odds N Ends.


    • I will comment here too and ask…Did anyone else solve clues out of order?

      • “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta.” f

        “I mean, there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues, but you can’t start in the middle of the poem and find the treasure, I don’t think, I mean, it would be a miracle if someone did.”

        “No 49, I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues. To me that’s just expensive folly. f”

        “You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is:
        a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
        b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
        Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve
        No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?
        Your question reminds me of another:  You leave home and walk a straight line for a mile, turn 90 degrees left and walk a curved line for a mile and shoot a bear. Then you turn 90 degrees left again and walk a straight line back to your home. What color is the bear?f”

        “Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues. Although others were at the starting point I think their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem. Playing a hunch is not worth much in the search and those who start out by looking for the blaze, are wasting their time.f”

        There are other quote with similar wording, so it seems to be looking for later clues might not be the best avenue. Then again… there is the quote below.
        This comment is very interesting… but I think you have to read it more than once to get the affect of what it might be telling us.


        “Do you think that someone who is sure about the location of the home of Brown could reverse-engineer where warm waters halt? ~Ben Raylor
        Thanks for the question Ben.
        If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt? But to answer your question, sure you could and a few searchers might throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take. Good luck.f”

        • Seeker, I agree. IMO a number of searchers think they can find the chest and take it by simply knowing the last clue. It truly is folly IMO. The chest can only be taken by full understanding of the nine clues. Short-cuts like thinking of snatching others’ ideas are a waste of time and money — and there is no adventure if the only reason to go out into the wilderness is to bring back Indulgence. You will need to want to figure out the poem (not just grab the answers) and then want to finish. IMO Otherwise, just go outside where you like and have a nice time and perhaps a picnic.

  87. JD, I believe what Kedars Mom is referring to is a quote from Forrest on Jenny’s site. Serge asked what is the minimum amount of clues he would have to solve to find the treasure assuming he would follow the clues in order.( paraphrasing). And Forrest answered” just one Serge, the last one”.

    • That is another interesting quote DPT. Most of fenn’s responses seem to be telling us we need to nail down the first clue…
      I think if we look at this one Q&A it might imply that the last clue is the clue that points/leads/places you at ~ [find] the chest. Yet how do we know where or what that last clue is, if you don’t have the other clues to bring you to it?

      Example; Go straight, turn right, turn right again, go straight, turn left, go up, do a U turn, look down.
      If all you have for the last clue is look down… how did you get there?


        Question posted 7/4/2014:

        Forrest, What’s the minimum number of clues that we need to solve to find the treasure, assuming that we follow the clues in order? `Serge Teteblanche

        Just one Serge, the last one.f

        ——Note that this does not say what Kedars Mom thinks it says. It’s a trick answer. “ASSUMING that you follow the clues in order what is the minimum number needed to solve in order to find the treasure?” The LAST ONE…. because if you are solving the last clue, that means you have already followed the other 8 clues before it, SINCE you followed the clues “in order”. (based of the prerequisite assumption in the question)

        • How do you know it doesn’t say what I think it means? Never assume anything.

      • Seeker, I could not agree with you more. I have continually said we need THE wwh to get to the end. He has said that over and over as referenced above. I believe I know what the blaze is, but my wwh has been a little off. The blaze is a common feature in the rocky mountains and along the river banks. Hopefully I can get to the focus with the correct wwh.

    • Just a thought and others may have brought this up I’m not sure if it was alluded to or implied.

      What if the first clue is the last? the Alpha is the Omega?

      WWH is the beginning, but not the first?

      Could this imply then that we are following:

      -Where you are going

      -How to get there

      -What you will see/have seen.

      clue organization?

      Just my opinion and observations.

      • Jason D, It could be. Just like the TS Elliot poem quote.
        And the end of all our exploring. Will be to arrive where we startedto the place that we started and know the place for the first time.

        Also don’t forget the last line in that poem by TS Elliot.

        And the fire and the rose are one.

  88. Interesting also JD and Kedars Momis that you bring up the word Folly from a quote from Forrest.
    Did you now the root or archaic meaning of folly is fool,mad,madness. He says folly in reference to WWH.
    Would madness or mad be the Madison??

      • Thanks pdenver, you do as well.

        As I see it. The hot water heater leaks hot water onto cold cement like what Forrest says above. Cement is important also. In preface of TFTW he says his connection with the Madison River was cemented. Also tar is a form of cement or glue-hmmm.

        Now the hot water heater is BIG. Big enough that you could identify it on a map of the rocky mountains. Like the story of the little girl from india. I believe that story is a big hint that if your wwh is too small to be seen on a map of the rockies then you better look at another wwh.

        So Forrest likes to talk about volcanoes. The Yellowstone caldera can be seen from a map of the rocky mountains. That is the hot water heater and it leaks out onto cold cement. He also refers to the wwh as folly. Folly means mad. Madison.

        So then towards the start of the book TTOTC the line he says about the Joker and the pot. The pot is the kettle, the kettle hole or caldera of Yellowstone and the Joker is the fool or folly like Madison.

        I guess I need to figure out the other 4 cards and play whether I like it or not.

        Thrill of the Chase. Thrill root definition means to pierce just like tar is pitch which means to prick or pierce. Thrill also has a root definition of HOLE and nose or nostril.

        Makes sense to me, how about others?

        • Blow your nose DPT! Maybe the gold is in the hole. Just kidding
          Actually, your impressions draw interesting conclusions.

          Can you help me out with Poker questions?
          I know more about canassta… If we’re playing 5 card poker, did ff meant draw or stud? And, is the joker good or bad in a game of 5 card?

          • Hi Anna, The joker is good in poker. It is a wild card.
            He says deal 4 cards and a joker and then you play like it or not. To me that means stud poker which means you play with the cards your delt. If it were draw poker you could discard the cards you did not want and draw new ones.

            So to summarize the Joker is a good wild card and stud poker.

            Stud and wild—hmmmm.

            What are you thinkin Anna?

            Also I know nothing about canasta. I have always taken that quote to be the reference to wwh that he is speaking about. An oil CAN or watering CAN that pours water out. like the map on page 99.

          • Thanks DPT. I knew he meant 5 card stud, Although I feel like I’m continually drawing another card in Fenn’s game.

            So if the joker is good why are you saying ing it’s a fool or folly. Please help me understand your logic. I’m in a hospital waiting room so please have mercy. It’s been a long day looking out the window at DKR stadium in Austin waiting on my stud of a husband to come out of plumbing surgery.

          • Thanks DPT. I am here to help any way I can. If I can’t solve it I would like to help someone do it.

            Anna, I see it as the Joker is good. The wild card is goo in poker. The definition of folly is a hint. Folly root word meaning is fool, mad or madness. Forrest loves the Madison. He loves the fool. You know what a fool is? A simpleton-that is an important word to Forrest. Look up simpleton-wow.

            Look at page 50-51 in TTOTC. The drawing has one of the kids pointing a finger at his head like a gun. He is a clown, fool, joker, he is crazy, mad. Also Forrest says on page 51 that they ran around the car like a Chinese fire drill. To me that’s like clowns. To me this is all saying Mad or Madison River.

          • That’s all “crazy talk”, quit “fool’n” and “cut to the chase”


            couldn’t help myself to poke at the “folly”

            All my opinion and in the “joker” spirit

  89. Glad to see some stimulating conversation. Whether you agree or disagree is not the point. I have to wonder if anyone will really be happy for whoever figures this out.

  90. Did anyone else ever notice that the radiators in the cars in TTOTC are all leaking? Both the drawings and the heap that Skippy is driving in the real picture. Just like the hot water heater leaks.

    • The radiators on all old cars back then would overheat!!!!!! Silly what good is telling a story if the car ran fine and there were no issues. On the other hand if you go to a certain spot near a great art shop on the west side of the mountains far NW of Santa Fe there is a town with a bridge behind a home of brown that if you look over the bridge into the flat land is a perfectly old car just waiting to be looked into. That would have been my third place to look.

  91. The following is my opinion. If someone will ever have a chance at finding (touching) the gold it will be by following the clues precisely. I am a believer that 9 periods make 9 clues. Just because there has been more emphasis on WWWH it does not mean that the first stanza is not the first clue of the poem. Remember Mr. Fenn says the truth but not the whole truth. Yes, I think that one has to study the first stanza over, and over, and try to understand it before proceeding. Time is better spent on trying to decipher the first stanza than trying to find out what WWWH is. How do searchers look for WWWH if they do not know what that is? It is my opinion and my opinion only. RC

    • RC;

      I mostly agree. I count eight periods and a question mark as my nine sentences. I guess that a question mark has a period, so maybe I can fully agree.

      Good luck in your search, and STAY SAFE


  92. The following is my opinion and opinion only. One of the mistakes I see most searchers make is they approach the search with preconceived notions,feelings, ideas as to what the clues are and aren’t. Some searchers think that wwwh has to have water,or canyon down has to do with a canyon, or that Brown has to do with the color brown. I think that Mr. Fenn has dress the fox like the hound so the fox won’t get found easily.It’s my very humble opinion. RC.

    • Thanks Dal. Is it just me or does the article seem like it ended in the middle?

        • Hello inthechaseto. I went to the bottom of the page thinking there was more. The journalist left us on the edge of our seats. The suspense! They knew what they were doing. 😉

      • I also thoug
        ht “where’s the rest”, is there a second page? But overall a good article. I enjoyed the pictures as well. Gotta say the picture of the treasure map does not match the picture of the treasure map I have inside my head. But I’m in a whole different state. Thanks Dal for posting the link.

        • I agree Ramona..The whole story seemed empty of the spirit and wonder of the chase..
          The best part was the search with Cynthia…the best line was “That’s just a rock.”…

          It’s like the writer just didn’t care about the whole thing…
          Like a high school assignment rather than a NYT esteemed writer…

          By the way..the story, way back in March, by John Burnett from NPR is generating more hits on the blog, so far today, than the NYT story…go figure!!!

          • Hello Dal. Unfortunately, to some it’s an assignment and a paycheck only. I enjoyed the quote you stated by Cynthia as well. I could imagine her wrinkling her nose and shooing the reporter. Too bad Cynthia couldn’t have found a much steeper hillside to climb and have the journalist follow…says one former New Yorker about another. 😉

  93. The following is my opinion and opinion only. The poem is a casuality dilemma,and I do not see any of us notice this. What came first the chicken, or the road? RC.

  94. Nine clues.

    As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold,
    I can keep my secret where,
    And hint of riches new and old.

    1 – Begin it where warm waters halt
    2 – And take it in the canyon down,
    Not far, but too far to walk.
    3 – Put in below the home of Brown.

    4 – From there it’s no place for the meek,
    5 – The end is ever drawing nigh;
    6 – There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
    7 – Just heavy loads – and 8 – water high.

    If you’ve been wise and found the 9 – blaze,
    Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
    But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
    Just take the chest and go in peace.

    So why is it that I must go
    And leave my trove for all to seek?
    The answers I already know,
    I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

    So hear me all and listen good,
    Your effort will be worth the cold.
    If you are brave and in the wood
    I give you title to the gold.

    Just my logical, straightforward approach to the nine clues.

    • Might as well add my abstract thinking.

      The entire poem contains 9 clues that deciphered properly will win you the prize… That is as straightforwards as it get.

    • Seeker,
      I think you should at least try & pinpoint some phrases, lines or words in the poem you may think are clues.
      I don’t expect most to share there secret inner thoughts about the poem but it would be nice to see if some think the way I do.

      Maybe I’m alone on an island & that’s fine with me.

      • Another one who thinks he knows me… pin point line? Phrases? Your not even close to what I have shared my thoughts on…. you do realize there was a chase before you jump on the band wagon, right?

        All you puppies would be so cutie if you didn’t piddle on the floor so much.

        • I know you enough to know that you do not like to make commitments about what the clues are.
          It’s why, why, why or how do we read the poem.
          Stop being afraid to take a stand on what you think they are.
          Are you afraid of ridicule & failure?
          Don’t worry, we have all been there.
          Why don’t you ask me how I came to this conclusion?
          Or do you want to keep the piddling contest you love to step into so much to track all over the blog?

          Just because you’ve been here longer, doesn’t make you smarter.

          So let’s here your take on the 9 clues if you have any.

          • Do you know how many time or how many pages there are about; ‘what I think the 9 clues are polls’ Jake? Sadly enough, I do… have you read any of them? Have you ever heard of the Multiple Meaning thread or the 10,000 years down the road thread or any of the solves that I have posted for topic of discussions, one being from the mind of an abstract thinker… Heck, do you even know where the Abstract thinking came from? or why?

            You sound just like that guy.

            Ya no nothing of what I have discussed in the last 4 years… “Take a stand”? Seriously, I’m laughing so hard at how ridiculous your ignorance is my stomach hurts. Just stop with the BS Jake. Talk to me in another 4 or 6 years when your straightforwards interpretation of what you ‘Hope’ FF means doesn’t work out for you. That is if you haven’t thrown in the towel by then. Read into the poem as you like, but never pretend you know me or what I have contributed… right or wrong… Now excuse me while I get some more newspapers for the floor… it’s turning into a slip and slide.

        • I know you enough to know that you do not like to make commitments about what the clues are.
          It’s why, why, why or how do we read the poem.
          Stop being afraid to take a stand on what you think they are.

          Are you afraid of ridicule & failure?
          Don’t worry, we have all been there.
          Why don’t you ask me how I came to this conclusion?
          Or do you want to keep the piddling contest you love to step into so much to track all over the blog?

          Just because you’ve been here longer, doesn’t make you smarter.

          So let’s hear your take on the 9 clues if you have any.

      • @ Jake,

        Clue lines = 5,6,9,13,16,17,20,23,24

        :), for the path, I see 3 levels of the poem:
        1. alpha/numeric (2,9,11,13,14,15,16,17,21,22,23)
        2. coordinates (3,4,5,6,8,20,22,23,24)
        3. path (5,6,9,13,16,17,20,23,24)

        add the lines by stanza, take levels 1 & 2 down to simplist form. (1 digit). Add up the 3rd but keep that number since you would be down. = 1,7,29212 or 29,220. Total amount of days in 80 years…

    • Jake, Mine clue selections have been almost identical, but I have had a nagging urge to make a significant change.

      First though, for me, “Heavy loads and water high” is one clue. Second, I (usually) don’t conflate “take it in the canyon down” with “not far but too far to walk” so they have counted as 2 clues (for me, usually 😉 )

      So if I keep HLAWH as one clue, and use your conflated clue 2, I have only 8 clues.

      Yippee! because my nagging need requires adding another WORD as a clue, and that word is the 6th word, “in”, which I see as indicating an “in”–a cave-like something to protect the f-bones and the trove. My word that is key. Not buried but not quite “not-buried” either because there is rock/ground directly above it.

      Yes, then I have to deal with “it’s not in a cave”. So I envision something more of a protective alcove/grotto-like spot that doesn’t fit the concept of “cave”, but provides similar protection and some concealment.

      Now to deal with that awful feeling one gets when that little voice says “you’re twisting the poem to fit your bias”. In this case the bias is that there is something special about the place and it was special to Native Americans also, and ff found artifacts there. Maybe a chief’s bones?

      It is really hard not to get attached to such biases.

      • Yes Joseph,
        I have thought the same for heavy loads & water high as being one clue but couldn’t find another clue to fill the gap.
        I am not sure about a cave seeing Forrest ruled that out as well as a mine.
        It’s tough not to have a bias in whatever way you look at the poem & I think your looking at it in a straightforward way which I think is the way.
        Something special, no doubt.
        Whether it’s Native American related or not I would have to think it is related considering his background.
        We may not be on the exact same page but I do appreciate you sharing what you think as far as the clues go & we all know we could be wrong but we have to make a logical decision on such somewhere down the road.

      • Joseph – You wrote:

        “Now to deal with that awful feeling one gets when that little voice says “you’re twisting the poem to fit your bias”. In this case the bias is that there is something special about the place and it was special to Native Americans also, and ff found artifacts there. Maybe a chief’s bones? ”

        Forrest mentioned at Jenny’s that he would have liked to have been on the Indian side in the Custer fight. While trying to solve The Poem,…my solve for:

        “If you are brave and in the wood”

        Was John Stands in Timber,…the Cheyenne Memory Keeper. The priests called him “Forrest” in school:

    • To me it seems the most logical and straightforward clue count in the poem would be 1 clue for each sentence. I’m almost in that group but not quite. Not sure if stanza 5 holds 2 clues with its 2 sentence or 1. If it did hold one it would force 1 of the sentences to hold 2 clues, maybe that could be stanza 3.

    • RC did you mean causality dilemma or maybe you mean casualty dilemma?

      Ahh don’t worry about it, I think I know what you mean, but I don’t know what it has to do with the poem. Like Fenn says, the dictionary is an infringement on free speech.

        • RC – I had to look up causality, because I had to know what it meant. I’m a little smarter now. : )

  95. …many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt…

    That’s because they are where warm waters halt.
    If the clues are continuous/contiguous, then shouldn’t our first thought be to narrow the field?
    If we don’t know where to begin, how will we know where to go next?
    IMO, straightforward can also mean literal. Straightforward is relative.
    Where to begin?
    IMO, first, know the poem like your phone number, able to recite in your sleep.
    I don’t count sheep, they get in the way of my thoughts which are ALWAYS on the poem.
    Did you know there is a bug in there? It’s in the container, and the x is on its back…

  96. The nine sentences in the poem may be the nine clues. They just are not the same type of clues.

    • IMO – I have located the correct point in the poem. It has started to unveil a multitude of instructions, paths and references. Most people will not be able to locate the beginning, since they are so focused on everything,but the poem. IMHO – Put away all your maps, external research articles and even Fenn’s book. All they accomplish is to create more possibilities and options that do not pertain to the primary point – The Poem. This is the mud, stay in the box and stay focused references he has made lately. Make sure you explore the entire poem, Fenn has not wasted any ink with unnecessary letters or words.

      IMHO hint: don’t worry about the stanza’s yet. You need to find the single loose thread to open the next phase, which than the stanzas play a role.

  97. Hi People, I am fairly new to this blog (about 9 months) and I am still catching up with the massive backlog of comments and videos about the Chase. Also trying to read the latest comments as well as attempting various ways of solving this conundrum is a time consuming but very enjoyable task. I would like to thank you ALL for your input and output of facts, fun and information and for making this an enjoyable experience for me. Thankyou.

  98. I’ve seen it mentioned before and I agree that in addition to the nine CLUES, there are HINTS within the poem itself to aid us in confirming what we believe to be the actual clues. I believe every clue is a location(waypoint) or a physical description of what is at the waypoint mentioned in the clue (such as “water high”). IMO one of the hints (not clues) is “worth the cold”, (which to me confirms one of my waypoint locations). I do not believe “worth the cold” is a physical description of a location, or one of the waypoints along the search. In fact, I know the streams are NOT cold. I was in one last year in Colorado – where the treasure is NOT located IMO, and it was very refreshing, not the least bit cold, and I was at the highest ULTA (uppermost legal treasure altitude) – yes I just made that up, that you can be (10,200 feet). Looking for something in the Rockies that is physically cold, I believe is a waste of time – yes even those partially frozen waterfalls like I read about in southern Colorado. Heading to Wyoming – where the treasure is! – with my wife next week, and I’m sure it will be worth the money, even if we come back treasureless. Good luck everyone! wl62

    • Good Morning Warlock62;

      Let’s hope that we do not run into each other next week-end in Wyoming. I will arrive at my site Friday Afternoon. May or may not search Friday PM, but will certainly search Saturday AM.

      Good luck in your search and TRY to STAY SAFE


    • Email me at SculptorJDA at aol dot com if you want to discuss possibility of our being in same area – I am NOT in YNP


    • Warlock62, You said; “In fact, I know the streams are NOT cold.”

      You suggested that cold is not an actual ‘clue’ but might be a ‘hint.’ OK sure… But with cold, you describe it as a feeling of temperature to you personally [human body contact], as “refreshing.” But you skipped over what “Cold” is… if not a temperature. Could you explain?

      You stated; “Looking for something in the Rockies that is physically cold, I believe is a waste of time…”

      If that is the case, do you also believe looking for something “warm” in the Rockies is also a waste of time? As a temperature, whether an actual degree or a feel like to the human body.

      • Seeker – I’m sure “warm waters” is one of the CLUES so I believe that there IS actually water that is warm. I think the clues are straightforward and what I believe to be the HINTS are not as straightforward. Since I think “cold” is a hint and not a clue, I don’t think that you are going to be cold, or passing near or through something that is cold. An analogy would be if someone gave you a hint and you realized that they were hinting at Stonewall Jackson. At first you may have been looking for a literal wall, or something literally made out of stone, but then you’d realize those would both be wrong when you discover you’re looking for a civil war general instead. This is all IMO of course, but the clues are more literal and the hints are subtle and tricky, but if you find them, they can give you an “Aha!” moment, that reaffirms that you solved the clue correctly. The Stonewall Jackson analogy is along the same line as my thinking about “cold” and other HINTS.

  99. All,
    I have also come to the conclusion recently that “heavy loads and water high” is IMO a single clue. I am still working to “adjust” my marks on the map.
    (I haven’t yet found the bug with the X on its back, however.)
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  100. Tee, hee, geoff!
    Love this solve! Haven’t gotten through all comments yet, but dinosaur is one of my favorite places on earth!::-)

  101. The following is my opinion. The reason why Mr. Fenn has said that the first clue is the most important clue of all is because once the searcher deciphers all the other clues she, or he would have to come back to the first clue to assure her, or him what needs to be done. RC.

  102. The following is my opinion. We are to follow the clues in the poem which are contigous, and consecutive. In order for anyone to follow the clues in that order there has to be a beginning, and an ending. The beginning of the poem is the first stanza,and this clue,to me, is the most important information on the poem. These words are not random, or even worthless. They contain the key to ultimately discovering the treasure chest, and most searchers treat them with disrespect. Even if a searcher deciphers the other clues without this basic piece of information she, or he, will be lost.RC.

    • This all great RC. We have been Told; the clues are contiguous, consecutive, to follow the clues, the first clue needs to be nail down, every word was deliberate, work on the poem for 15 years, Searcher have indicated / been at the first two clues but didn’t know it and/or understand the significance to where they were… and everything has a beginning and an ending… including the poem.

      Tell us something we don’t know…

      • Seeker, everything has a beginning and an ending…including the poem. In your opinion, do you think when a searcher looks quickly down they can see the chest?

        • What I think Randy, is that whatever we are to see, there is more work to be done. You have me looking down at the chest, I would say yes and no… I think where we look tells us/shows us where the chest is, but it’s not over yet.

          I want to believe that this is where the “planning” fenn keeps mentioning we need to do, starts. At least by my reading of the poem… There is something that is needed for anyone to find “precisely” where they chest lays in wait. I personally don’t think it’s a marker/blaze type of thing.

          I know that may not help much with thought… but I do keep some secret for myself.

        • Since Seeker has replied, I will add my two cents. No I do not think that if you “Look quickly down” that you will find the treasure.

          Look up these three words. Look at EVERY meaning of all three words. Hidden in these definitions is the answer as to WHERE to look, not HOW to look.

          Just my opinion.


  103. @Seeker Here it is, something new. According to the poem Mr. Fenn has the deed to the property where the chest lies. It is explained on the first stanza, and the last one too.RC.

    • RC – I will bet you $1,000 right now that that is YOUR OPINION and NOT FACT! You may THINK that what you say is true, but it IS NOT FACT, and you should present your ideas as such.

      And that, sir, is just MY OPINION.


    • RC – I agree with your hypothesis that “Mr. Fenn has the deed to the property where the chest lies”,…and the first and last stanzas support that,…where my spot is concerned. I just don’t have the means to go about proving that my Rising Rainbow Trout property is owned by him. There is a 1946 USFS map at the Yellowstone Library in Gardiner I would very much like to see, though:

      Forrest left the I.D. of that map type out,…when he re-wrote the “Looking for Lewis and Clark” story in TTOTC (ff called that story, “God protects foolish kids” here):

      “It was important that we be honest with the situation, and making plans is antagonistic to freedom, so we limited ourselves to three candy bars each, bedrolls, a shotgun, fly rods, a camera, knives and matches. Oh, and we had a Forest Service map of the Gallatin National Forest.”

      That video someone posted over on the Legal Ponderings thread confirmed this belief for me,…based on ff’s answers to the interviewer.

      • E*

        I do not openly disagree with you often, but on this one I have to disagree. If it were on land owned by Forrest, lawyers and family members would have to be apprised of this fact when Forrest passes on.

        Were the property to be sold, the new owner, be it a family member or not, could lay legal claim to the chest. A NASTY, NASTY law suit would take place.

        There are just TOO MANY complications to your theory.

        Claiming legal title to the TC will be difficult enough if it is found on public land. If it is on private land, even if Forrest owns it, gosh the headaches.

        Just my opinion.


        • JD, I have to defend E on this. What you failed to speak about is what we call a Land Trust. This is not a normal deed. It is an official paper from the property overseer, that does what is described within.

          For example…

          A land trust deed can let an anonymous compamy (i.e. Forrestry Innovations LLC) hold control over the property, only if they obey strict instructions set within the land trust. These can include anything, like “no excavating”, “no timber cutting”, “no residential or commercial modifications”. So basically Forrest could set a land trust with that LLC, which belongs to a well established accounting firm, with instructions to transfer the trust to an equal or near standing accounting firm (given the chance of their bankruptcy).

          Or Forrest could own the LLC outright, and have enough money invested in it to keep the LLC in business for 100-500 years. He is a MULTI millionaire.

          Now JD, given that example…. lets say you find the chest. Congrats btw! 🙂 You find the land trust in the chest, and it tells you to sign it to accept the property and everything included in the confines of the property. It also tells you to contact the LLC or nearest property management ordinance (town), and file it with them. BAM! the land is now yours. The chest is now yours as well. And the beauty is…as per law, you found the chest on your land, therefore it’s your property. The IRS cannot tax you on it until you attempt to liquidate it. (to my knowledge). ALSO… the LLC is notified of the property change over. Therefore Forrest gets the call from the LLC, and realizes that the only way this could happen is if the chest was found. He then announces on major news outlets that the chest has been found. BINGO! YAHTZEE!

          I hope this puts some clarity on the land deed idea.

          • My – My the intricacies of the law.

            W O W – IF I find it where I think it is, this will not be a problem – It is on public land, so I will have other kinds of problems.

            Thanks for the info.


          • Again jake my lead-in was”IF I find it where I think it is,” Expressing my opinion – not fact.

            Thinking is personal opinion – NOT FACT

            Have a GREAT DAY JAKE


          • Thanks for clarifying that JD.
            You are a stickler for people stating something as fact when it is not & I had to point that out to you & shouldn’t have to.

            Is there such a thing as over confident?
            I suspect so.

          • Iron Will – Wow! I will be calling you,…if I ever get past My Grizz! Thank you for that great info!!!! 🙂

            And speaking of Land Trusts, etc.,,,did anyone find my Wisdom-is-in-the-Heart blaze,…at the Trapper’s Cabin,…way up in “waters high” on Lightning Creek (to the right of the ‘L’ in Lightning)?:


            Last time I checked,…that “Trapper’s Cabin” property was in the hands of the Gallatin Valley Land Trust,…but I think I found out the owners name was Sandy,…not ff through research. I can’t find the info. on conservation there now.

          • Iron Will,
            Thank you for that info–my location is in fact owned by a Trust, but it is not associated with ff.

            am I screwed?


          • Joseph you scare me! 😯

            No…the land trust will not be in Forrest’s name…. that would be too easy to find. Like he said, he tried to think of everything. He could have a proxy LLC holding the property or a fake name under the land trust. The only way to know is to find the owner and ask him straight up if he / she knows of Fenn.

    • RC,
      Just for shlts and grins… I would love to hear how you see a deed to property in the first stanza. Sure, if I was to walk he plank on stanza 6 I might be able to shoot the wings off a fly with that… but ya got me on stanza 1.

      Yeah, I know you don’t want to spill the beans, but pop the lid so we can have a peek.

      • “As I have gone alone in there, and with my treasures (in bold font)”

        It’s not that hard…. The treasure chest is one, and the land trust deed to the property it resides on is the other….hence TREASURES.

        Also “And hint of riches new and old” The newly placed treasure chest, and the old plot of land that Forrest treasures.

        I’m not saying that’s exactly what was meant… but I discerned that possibility within 5 seconds of reading you post.

        • Iron Will – Ditto. Also my search area aka. the Rising Rainbow Trout,…is outlined (or “bold”?). Everything outside of that boundary line is Madison River Canyon Earthquake Area or Cabin Creek Wildlife and Recreation Management Area:

          I think he made the blaze on the “face” on this property also,…with his extensive experience in logging (he said he worked for the USFS in his teens, right?). And I think that blaze-making is reflected in the drawing with the stumps and the bird up in the crescent moon.

          Let me know what you think…

          • IMO E… The blaze is something else. And I think I know what it is, thanks to a word he purposely misspelled, and Gypsy’s comment that the blaze is winking at her. But even if I know WHAT the blaze is, I don’t know where it is.

          • Iron Will – Two blazes are winking at Diggin Gypsy (FYI – I am the original from the Shadow Contest),…the “face” blaze within my topo trout,…and the Owl Blaze (a glacial erratic) on the Madison River:

            (ff and/or Dal’s version of my blaze IMO)

            (“who” do you see in the upper right corner at 5:50?)

            The OTHER D.G. took a nice picture of a Moose crossing the Madison from the same Day Use Area viewpoint where that video was filmed. I am pretty sure that is how she found the “wise” and winking “blaze” also.

          • Iron Will – You can see the “face” in topo view (with the word “Forest” running down the left cheek),…and the matching “Ears” by switching to satellite view.


            “Hear me all and listen good”?

            The star and letters blaze I mentioned goes along the ridge,…on the right side of the laying down “face” (so ff and/or Dal got it wrong in that photoshopped picture).

          • Iron Will – And was that blaze-related misspelled word ‘proximAty”???? 🙂

          • Actually no. But it is DIRECTLY tied in to TWO items Forrest has said you need to help find the treasure….IMO 😉

          • Iron Will – Do you think ff brought a sandwich and a flashlight to eat up in my “burial chamber”,…in the shade? And is THAT your “blaze” and not your final hidey hole???:


            That potential final resting place for ff was part of my:

            “D’Nile is a River in Egypt” solve

            With Sphinzx Mountain and Pyramid in the distance,…I thought Red Canyon was a perfect Valley of the Kings.

          • Depends if he had to lead the cougar away with the sandwich that he saw in there with the flashlight 😛

          • Iron Will – Bingo! When I found that Red Canyon way-up-high cave or “burial chamber”,…I thought of that picture in one of ff’s books where he was hanging off of a cliff trying to cut a tree. Those are conifers in that panaramio pic,…that’s how I find it every time. Wasn’t that picture I’m thinking of part of the story about ff hunting a cougar???

        • Where’s loco when I need him… I should have a bat signal for his Hall of Records.

          IronWill… I’m pretty sure that “Fonts” thing was ruled out as helpful long ago… about the same time the comment “over complicate” by knowing unnecessary unknowns. I will look it up… but I’ll need time to find this one.

          I’m sure you have been around long enough to recall the conversations about it… I’m almost sure, Mdavis and JB had some debate about it.
          I’ll add that fenn also { if I’m correct } that he owns no other lands… sold the art gallery and the dig site. So it would be a leap for me to think another piece of land was involved.

          Think of it this way… Fenn passes on leaving this magical piece of property to someone… wouldn’t rockets red glare, canons go off, whistles blowing, sirens screaming for that person who now has this property… and anyone else who is at the reading of the will? That doesn’t sound like… 100 years or a 1000 years down the road line of thought.

          • “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, ****fonts,**** charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f” 

            Silly me, it was there all this time.

          • Seeker – Check. Check. Check.

            “Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f”

            I only had TTOTC via ff’s blog stories posted there,…when I found my spot in March/April 2013. And The Poem. of course.

          • “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, ****fonts,**** charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f”

            This is a code in itself. I think you are wasting your time looking for gold if you throw this stuff out. You will have a nice long journey in the woods though. Which might be nice. But not the point.

            This entire scrapbook represents the opposite of things.

            However if you are one of them “poem purist”, then you shouldn’t have to worry about this scrap book anyhow. Since poem purist dont need to use scrapbooks for information.

            God I love seeing people post this SB as if they know exactly what it means. Keep em coming boys..

          • So Hammer the chest is south of Santa Fe, below 5,000 feet, under an out house that’s in a graveyard and at least 300 miles east of Toledo.

            Good hunting…..

          • Good grief Charlie Brown. Hammer you say you hear and listen. Do you actually read what fenn has stated.

            “This is a code in itself. I think you are wasting your time looking for gold if you throw this stuff out.”

            Here we are with codes again… Everything fenn says is coded. Hidden mysterious codes… Fenn sending secret messages to a single searcher… fenn wants is found now, forget the thought of 1000 years or 10,000 down the road, That’s a secret code for now~ now~ now.

            No wonder I’m going bald, I’ve been trying to read this straightforward.

          • Seeker you keep talking about fonts, and I really have no clue why? I never said anything about fonts helping you find the treasure. I just said there is more than one tre….ehhh… know what, it’s just not worth my time to explain.

            Regardless, good luck with your searches.

          • Iron Will on July 22, 2016 at 1:45 pm said:
            “As I have gone alone in there, and with my treasures (in bold font)”

            I don’t think I have talked about any kind of Font usage since the comment came out.

            Iron Will on July 23, 2016 at 5:43 pm said:
            “Seeker you keep talking about fonts, and I really have no clue why? I never said any”

            So I don’t get why you say, ‘I keep talking about them’ [fonts]. I just made a comment to your posting shown above and what you stated about them.

            Anyways, the font conversation is an old and useless chat about nothing, imo.

          • jackmunter – Me no have books,…was the picture I described (on pg 197) near the one about the cougar???

    • Hi RC- You recently said that you’re reasonably sure that the TC is near a grave. I realize that there are references both books, but in your opinion, what part of the poem directs you that way?
      Thank you,

  104. How do you know if it is a fact or not? Wouldn’t it be your opinion, if you did not know it was a fact. I feel like that 1000 bucks would just sit in a pot, until the treasure was found. Better keep searching.

    • What is a FACT is that he is stating HIS OPINION as FACT!

      Forrest MAY own the land on which the TC is secreted. That will not become known as a fact until after the chest is found.

      I was not betting $1,000 on whether it is on land owned by Forrest or not. I was betting that what he said was OPINION and NOT FACT!

      You might learn to read a bit more carefully.


        • Hammer, Isn’t funny how every fishing place you research says the same thing,’ best trout fishing ever, hallowed fishing grounds’..

          For a while I was convinced maybe f was leading us to the Navajo Dam. Heavy loads and water high, built back in the 60’s, It flooded a community or two, but transformed what was a mediocre fishing along a muddy stretch of river into a cold water ecosystem for miles below the dam.

          I thought maybe the Simon Canyon relic had something to do with ‘Simon says’- hear me all and listen good. There is an old stone-works, a Navajo defensive position a short way up that canyon, but alas this Colorado plateau is still just part of the RM foothills. Who knows?

      • JD,

        Sure glad you are getting out tomorrow to search, I think you need the fresh air. Good luck brother and be safe.


        • You may be right LitterateOne – Am sure that the fresh air will work wonders on my addled brain.


  105. It would not surprise me if the treasure chest was to be found in close proximity to a gravesite.RC.

    • We know of at least one RC. Fenn’s original intent. I think the grave-site might be valid, but I wonder more if the site is something more than having to do with grave[s].

  106. @Seeker. Now whether you agree with me or not I gave you a piece of my puzzle. Now you tell me something I don’t know. I ll be waiting.RC.

      • Was busy, sorry for the delay.. I’ll give my best suggestion that I can about what you may or may not know… you’re reading the poem wrong.

        I’ll even put imo, to be politically correct and not upset some other who wouldn’t understand what ” suggestions means.

        I’m being serious RC. Why do we feel the need to locate 9 different places? When it’s more than likely that two or three places are needed to be known.

        How many clues does it take to get an answer?

  107. All,
    I will throw out two ideas.
    IMO, Seeker is (almost) correct; the poem is “straight forward” (two words). A searcher who is looking for codes in the poem will need to “get used to disappointment!”
    And, IMO, the searcher who finds TC will be able to say something like, “TC could actually be found using only a subset of the 9 clues, but all 9 clues were needed in order to select the subset.”
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • hmm,

      to quote Geoff,

      A searcher who is looking for codes in the poem will need to “get used to disappointment!”

      Bring a sandwich and a flashlight could be associate with Idioms, just thinking aloud.


    • Hi SL –

      I would think FF would know about this theory. it relates to the ancients and his prehistoric friends. I did not use any part of this in my solve. I thought it was interesting – how deep – they buried things and about the charcoal. I did find a couple pieces of charcoal – 2 feet down at my spot – perhaps I didn’t go far enough.

    • SL – I mentioned the Big Horn Medicine Wheel location in a response to JL today,…but I also posted about it on blog some time ago:

      E* on May 2, 2015 at 12:26 pm said:

      Spallies – I found a great coffee table book with aerial images,…just like this one of the Big Horn Medicine Wheel (which was also in that great book, along with Yellowstone Falls),…that were taken through the bombsite of a plane:

      I would guess that Forrest has some of those,…since he flew all of those types of planes,…that he said he did,…while serving in the USAF,…and travelling the world.

      • SL – And here is a l;ink I posted back then,…with some of the same info. as yours provided (which we all discussed over there):

        E* on April 18, 2015 at 6:24 pm said:

        anna – And here is the site I found for YOUR medicine wheel,…a few years ago,…when i found MY medicine wheel,…across the Madison River from Sun West Ranch in Cameron, MT:

        • SL – And here was inthechaseto’s reply:

          inthechaseto on April 19, 2015 at 9:43 pm said:

          That is very interesting E*

          Especially this part –

          Sighting from cairn E through the center hub (which may have supported a pole) marks the summer solstice sunrise. Sighting from C through the center marked the equivalent solstice sunset.
          Standing at cairn F, one could sight the once-yearly dawn, or heliacal, risings of the key stars Aldebaran, Rigel, and Sirius, which play symbolic roles in an ancient Cheyenne Massaum ceremony and are also important stars in the sacred Lakota circle constellation “The Animal”.

          • E* – The previous links you provided are great! (I do not recall ever using those!)

            Insofar as offering specific “Medicine Wheel” info; I will repeat the M.W. link which I DID provide for E*


            BTW….the “Search the Blog” option under Dal’s email /subscription search box, continues to remain non- functioning for me to utilize.


          • okay, to read that medicine wheel correctly:
            alpha/numeric directs you to pg.137. Bells, dancing with the stars, letters, etc… If you use the stars, aldebaran, rigel, formalhaut, from cairn F, you will make an “arrow”. The letters f,a,b,d = 1,7,2,1 or 83 (his fathers age at death, father was teacher, letters)8+3=11, 1+1=2, or in this case, TO.

            The C and E cairn make up the summer solstice, and form an “X” on the wheel. So, you get “TO X” and an arrow.

            Extend a tangent, a certain distance for “X”, dig 3′ at “X” for a bell.(Not saying how far, but easy enough to figure out). Bell is most likely the same bell on pg.137.

            This covers: Dancing with the stars, Me in the middle, and a couple other things…:)

          • charlie – That post was AWESOME! Unfortunately,…I do not have ff’s books to refer to,…to follow that solution. Bummer. 🙁

          • @ E, that’s okay. The titles are good enough. If you are in the middle of the wheel, looking out down the 24th spoke, you would find the end of “his” rainbow. There is a phenomenon in the mountains when light hits ice crystals in the atmosphere that causes a rainbow halo around the sun. This rainbow is at 22 degrees. From the middle cairn, the 24th spoke is at 22 degrees.

            To X, arrow, 24th spoke, extend a tangent…..of course, this is my opinion. Half credit to seeker for reminding me about med. wheels.

            All I know is when I do go out someday, at my coordinates, dig 3′ deep. Hopefully hear a “clang”…

  108. inthechaseto,

    Couldn’t hurt to dig just a bit.. deeper? (I’m still into enjoying the charcoal/ash theory).

    Incidentally, here’s a possible HOB that *might even include ‘grasshoppers!’

    BTW…..Were you able to read my “flashlight suggestion?” (UV)

    Enjoying the thrill,


    • Yes SL –

      I need to dig a little deeper…… more ways than one. 🙂

      I don’t have a clue what the charcoal/ash theory is…… I don’t read everything here any more as there is getting to be a garbbly gook mish mash of items being posted by those who know alot more than I.

      I did not read your flashight suggestion but would be interested to know it. I hope you are not saying to go at night – because I would not even want to do that – no way – no how.

  109. The following is my opinion. I think I now understand why Mr. Fenn said that some may have solved the 4 clues, but he was not sure. It takes a certain number of clues to point the searcher to the chest, but it takes more to actually have it in her, or his possession. Ultimately the correct solve is a failed solve without the chest.
    It is my very strong opinion that a searcher can be within a few inches from the chest, and she or he will not be able to see it. I know what Mr. Fenn has said,but it is not what he says that pushes us farther, and further from the chest , but what we interpret his comments to be. RC.

  110. I’m very new here so I’m sure this has been discussed before. Perhaps it is easy to see, hut was wondering if this could be one of the clues. The sentence part “hint of riches new and old” contains an acrostic that STARTS with the word “hint”.

    Hint Of Riches New = ” horn”– since the word “hint” is part of this acrostic, it appears to be a clue. Has this been discussed or discounted? Just curious. As I said I just came to the blog a few days ago, so it could be nothing. I find this to be intriguingly fun,
    and want to thank Forrest for hiding that chest.

  111. There is also an acrostic in “gone alone in there”. It is G-A-I-T which is a homophone of “gate” and refers to a horses trot. Has this been discussed or discounted? Thanks all !

    • Joe,
      Your deep thinking & illusional thoughts have sparked my intellectual cerebrum.
      The gate or gait we are looking for is locked & you need a key to open it.
      That would be the word that is key.

    • @Joe Sparrow, welcome to Dal’s Blog and The Thrill of the Chase. IMO, only a few searchers on here are into ideas of interpretations of the poem as you have pointed out. Anyhow, just saying welcome and as far as I’ve read, never seen any mention of your ideas but there are some on here that do think that way.

    • Joe Sparrow: Several mentions of “gate” occur thruout FF’s stories…notably in SB #56 there is specific mention of a “huge green gate”. Also, Bessie, the family cow page #31 TTOTC has horns (that look like geographic features – but not to poem purists!)…”until you have loved a cow part of your soul remains undiscovered” – a favorite FF quote of mine. I’m not sure where acrostics are leading you but hope this helps.

  112. This page is now closed to new clues. to continue the conversation please go to the latest Nine Clues page.

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