609 thoughts on “Scrapbook One Hundred Fifty Five…

    • I have enjoyed reading most of the scrapbooks/comments but this one is so far my favorite.
      I feel the provider of this message is really clever and knows that the human condition demands chaos be put in check periodicallyj but at the same time you have to have a sense of humor in the universe. So for those of you on a certain line of thinking in regards to the chase/search. I will point out Tangent anagram is Gannett. I know a mountain by that name. Just another Tangent but I’m no architect.
      Subscribed just to post this. Please be safe in your search. Those rescue teams are good but no need to work them overtime because you failed to choose wisely.

  1. imagination is more important than knowlege. “non-fiction writers don’t have to be right but eight-five percent of the time and everyone knows that.” and you were very careful not to say you needed to be correct only 85% of the time.

    it’s very confusing.

    tangent is the only thing i understand. but it has several meanings.

    july 7th. begins my final escapade.

      • i was just about to comment to you, slurbs… you’re the only one that makes me slightly nervous. f is succinct. and bends the truth a little.

        • Leigh
          I do not believe that f is bending the truth at all. FF has always been very honest and straight shooting. “BUT”, “WHAT IF” f is telling us the truth as true to history as one man can average out that truth?” “Considering the fact that one of f natural instincts is to embellish, just a little.
          End Quote. Re read the Preface for TTOTC, he is playing with us.

      • May be his enzymes are altering his mind expanding experience , or maybe his age
        is melding ; and he is expounding that Y is it and I must go…. And that Tan is so you don’t stretch it so far that you break it…..

        It will take metal enough to strike that blaze….

        Your very funny Slurbs!!!!!;)

  2. Slurbs, I see you will not give up. I’m sure you are using your brain power for this statement. 🙂 OMG. 🙂 let’s all make a straight line to the Gold. 🙂

  3. Got it, I think! I’m taking my Bubba with me soon to visit NM and test my possible solution. I’m looking forward to to our visit! I love the Thrill of the Chase.

  4. “I was very careful not to say I needed to be correct only 85% of the time. Read it again, middle of page 14. It doesn’t help to stretch a tangent. f”

    No, Forrest said “non-fiction writers don’t have to be RIGHT but eighty-five percent of the time and everyone knows that.”

    Would this be the same as “Not far, but too far to walk”?

    ~ Wisconsin Mike

      • Hey Wisconsin Mike,
        Here’s question that I thought f might have come back with for that, Mike, what says that the Blase has any possibility to point in any direction, like a round object, a tree that has grown for 30 years, a bush close to the ground , a trail that goes back and forth and round and round.
        Just say,,,,,IMHO

    • Maybe f is saying he is “NOT” Non Fiction writer.
      He is saying Non Fiction writers dont have to be right but only 85% of the time, not him personally.

    • Well yeah, I’ve walked 45 miles before but would I really want to? And I know that’s a bit too far to go to twice in a day unless maybe you had an ATV.

      • And again, f said he walked to his car twice to the place he put the treasure, in one afternoon. But are we talking about a saddle bag or an atv? Or the actual place he _left_ the treasure to be found?

  5. Curious!
    A tangent is the relationship of two side so a right triangle, the side opposite and the side adjacent.
    It is also a straight line or plane that touches a curve or curved surface at a point.
    How does one stretch either of these???

    • although both of those might make sense, tangent also means “a completely different line of thought or action.”

        • i think (IMO) you are right. “it can be a departure from contact with the curve” is exactly correct. – a different tangent, a different clue, if you will.

          doesn’t help to STRETCH a tangent?

          not sure… but “bend the truth a little” reminds me of that.

      • Leigh Cramer has the correct answer to tangent. An analogy to the main topic that has something in common.
        ( A different line ) He has directed all to the page but is the direction just to the 85% quote? I believe Caliph ( A Ruler ) of dirt is in question.

    • There you are Oz2
      Yes to it is also a moot point but what if the poem is all we need to figure it out? Does that also mean that f only has to be 85% truthful when he wrote the poem?
      Something to ponder
      I’m solid IMHO

    • I wonder if this is more a ‘what if’ than a ‘whom to’

      This is the second time in a short period a comment came out without seemingly being provoked by a Q&A ~etc. Of course there’ll be a few that think this is directed ‘right’ at them…

      The question for me is, why was he ‘very careful’?

    • Ever wondering indeed, could he be referring to a linear, upsetting, rambling or just misguided line, rant, ramble or simply off course. If it was directed towards me, which I know not, I think simply lost would have sufficed. Don’t bother thinking about this post too much I consider it a wasted effort. Still had fun though.

  6. the actual middle of page 14 is line 13

    can a person write a book? I never thought I had to believe everything

  7. It doesn’t help to stretch a tangent = a discontent protest at the length

    means.. hurry up? Just joshing around… I’m confused by this SB..

    • i’m confused by it too, but completely intrigued by it- maybe because it’s so short. this scrapbook for me is exactly another definition of tangent: a departure from the subject under consideration

      • @Jake – why is that strange? When someone is close but stuck, why not nudge? I to the same for my kids in school studies, in life lessons, in keeping on schedule…

        Not saying I’m close, but someone must be.

        • It sounds like you are suggesting that f is trying to help a particular searcher? I thought he said he wouldn’t do that. I see something totally different. IMO of course.

          • @eaglesabound – I can’t read his mind nor intention. But apparently I am filled with confirmation bias.

          • Here’s something out there…maybe the poem isn’t about him, ( he didn’t say I ). Maybe this was a trek someone else took. Just a thought

          • I agree, Jake. I don’t think any of his comments are designed to favor any individual. Occasionally, I believe he will communicate non-contentious information (for example, that he is aware of something sent to him), but not to help anybody’s solution. The intel presented in this scrapbook will likely only be of assistance to those already thinking along the right lines or open enough to reinterpreting their ideas, IMO.

          • Vox,

            Your comment reminded me of a conversation with another about the exact same… Without too much detail…

            This type of comment has some wondering if it to a specific person. I, like others call BS…
            Yet, if this is a public statement, an avenue used frequently for public comments… even IF this was to be directed at one… Does it level the playing field, just for the fact it’s now public?

            Remember, wwwh is not a dam?

            While I will admit something triggered this comment, I’m leaning more to the ‘what if’ prior comment, and what triggered that comment.

          • You could be right… but I have no idea whether it’s to level the playing field or not. Although I’m as obsessed as the next seeker, I don’t have time to follow every comment, and so don’t know if he let something slip previously.

            What I do know, is that this little nugget is of huge significance if you know how to interpret it – and could make the chase much closer! Darn! I hope he isn’t trying to stir the pot just to keep things interesting… 😉

          • Vox,

            Fenn is very good at stirring the pot.
            The thing is… should one or more actually be close, was this comment meant to assist?

            I’d like to think it relates to helpful information to all… and not to help the one or two and call it a public notice to do just that.

            Either way, I normally don’t get intrigued by the SB’s as most do. Yet i’ll admit, this one has “read me” all over it.

          • If I’m correct, this is of value to all searchers, but requires at least an understanding of what this poem is all about. It will also aid those who are far advanced in the process, but who haven’t made a crucial connection.

            ALL IMO!!!

  8. Maybe his imagination gives him the go ahead to stretch the truth a bit
    like other non fiction writers.
    a true story is still true with a little flare added.

  9. For those of you planning road trips this year – especially anyone who is new to the search – Fort Worth to Santa Fe is 10 Hours of Driving without a Break, save for gas. And Fort Worth to Choteau, Montana, about an hour south of Canada, is 25 Hours of Driving without a Break .. that’s just one way. Remember, you have to drive the same distance back, after spending two or three days searching and sleeping on the ground or in your car – not always the most restful sleep, especially if it’s cold. Denver is 12 Hours. or 18 to Cody.

    You may be closer or farther than Fort Worth, but you’re going to be tired and foggy if you try to drive non-stop. 10 to 12 is the about the maximum anyone should be driving without a 4-6 hour rest. If you’re coming from a great distance .. make sure you give yourself three days just for travel. Make stops. Take 10 or 15 minutes. Get 4 hours of sleep. Get the blood flowing back into your legs. And rest for a couple hours, so your brain works when you get to the search area .. A Million Dollars isn’t worth dying over ..

    Unless, of course, you find it 😉


  10. Unfortunately, I slept through Algebra and my brain is too much of a void to figure it out. There just has to be a steep step I’m missing ..


  11. Imagination…that’s the answer (imo).
    Knowledge is truth = 100%.
    If you use your imagination to solve the poem, that’s not 100%. It’s 85%.
    That 15% is the ability to be flexible, which is required using imagination.
    So, for example, when it says “home of Brown”, those without imagination take it literally…the HOME of Brown (family).
    If those fortunate hikers (or in this case, unfortunate!), that figured out the first two clues and walked past the other seven, not realizing the significance of where they were at, saw a “brown home”, it might have clicked and fit the poem, they didnt see that, kept going and lost out. But I feel HOB is figurative, using imagination to fulfill F’s meaning of HOB, thus the searchers saw nothing fitting a HOB because they weren’t using 85% imagination.
    I may be wrong, but I understand what F is trying to say, 3 lines, 2 match but one doesnt, because it is imagination, not fact.
    Wwh = fact
    Canyon not too far= fact
    HOB= imagination.
    That equals a tangent.
    F may mean someone is close, but needs to use more imagination than fact, to advance…you can find the first two clues on a map, but that’s as far as you can go, because the rest is imagination! (GFI)
    Or, cod he be flutterby-ing…”tan-gent” = indian (brown) & home of = pueblo…?! Nah! My 15% is running away with me!
    Good luck/ be safe
    ¥Peace ¥

    • Donna,
      interesting to say the least. I’m set in my ways right now but it seems like IMO that”everyone is not using what f says”. It’d dimple to find the answer when the answer it looking at you no matter what your reading,TTOTC, TFTW, ot the poem. S/B’s are informative if you understand what is being said, but f has openly stated that the poem is all you need to complete this journey .
      Believe in yourself, it’s imagination that will finish this for all…IMHO

  12. I wonder if the word tangent will send people off on one; this did cross my mind.

    A tangent is also a term used in trigonomoetry – cosine, sine and tangents – which are used in navigation…oh the rabbit holes!

  13. well well well…f has started another little brush fire. Some will hasten to stamp it out…Others may see it as a controlled burn. Succinct is a good word Slurbs…

  14. This! This is the kind of stuff that makes it a great puzzle.

    You know, there’s an entire chapter on literature in Forrest Fenn’s book, and certainly a lot of literary criticism has been thrown his way. And yet, everyone’s trying to figure out what he means by the words in his poem. He says, in an alternate history, “I might’ve been a great writer for all I know…”

    I like reading, so I’ve read a few books on writing. They all say the same thing, in different words: Choose your words with intent.

    If choosing your words deliberately is the goal, a workshop on writing better could offer the simple suggestion: Start a treasure hunt!

    I mean, right? For one, you’re forced to start the process wondering how people are going to pick your words apart. It has a built in discipline to it. You are going to choose your words carefully. Second, even if you do end up with a less than perfect paragraph or two, the reader’s going to engage with it anyway while looking for some encoded message. You’re covered all the way around.

    I think we can all agree, Forrest Fenn is a great writer.

    “I wanna make a jigsaw puzzle that’s 40,000 pieces. And when you finish it, it says ‘go outside.'” – Demetri Martin

        • I’m sorry, what I really mean is EVERY story. I’m guilty of this. We go through the man’s memoir and pick it apart, looking for things that means something other than what it says it means. In any other context, that just makes us complete jerks. If we’re all just players on a stage, some of us are villains. I don’t want to be that guy.

          • Jeremy, I think your “in any other context” qualifier is important. This is a puzzle set by a master wordsmith. Trying to uncover meaning is what it’s all about. But at the same time Mr. Fenn seems to have a lot of fun toying with our imaginations and predispositions.

            I don’t think it makes anyone a villain to go through F’s oeuvre trying to glean something useful, (although I choose not to because I don’t want to be distracted from the main task; I’ll glance at the scrapbooks from time to time, but that’s about it). On the other hand, I believe most people understand that there are hints dotted around here and there, otherwise why would F go to the trouble of creating some very odd and cryptic vignettes of his personal life from time to time?

            So it would seem that there are pointers out there. Some people will be able to make use of them and others won’t, depending on where they are in their thinking. Unfortunately, for some searchers, if they can’t make a connection, they refuse to believe there’s one to be made – and a few go so far as to denigrate others for claiming they’ve found something helpful or (dare I say it 😉 ) confirmatory. Sometimes they’ll be right – but not always. So how do you tell the difference?

            A ludicrously simple example would be if you’ve come to the conclusion that the answer to the puzzle is 5, and you see a hint suggesting you add 2 and 3 together. You’d be crazy not to see that as confirmatory. But if your answer is 71, 2 + 3 would make no sense at all – and you then might be tempted to accuse others of confirmation bias.

            In the end, I think it’s down to being very careful, self-aware, and discriminating.

          • @vox – and brave and in the wood.

            But yeah, I’m a reasonable example of falling on this side of your current logic.

          • E.C. I think that, when someone has a potential solution, it’s probably worth going back over the scrapbooks to see whether the hints align. I may be wrong, but I feel the scrapbooks are the most focused body of hints.

          • @vox – the book is more focused in my opinion, especially My War For Me. I see this chapter as holding the most correlations per word count. The Scrapbooks do very much tend to support and extend what can be found in the book.

            For other logical thinkers, the scrapbooks and vignettes and his posts in all blogs, I have found and believe, can be separated into four distinct classifications as reasonable rule sets (I have tuned this a bit recently):

            1) words supporting or relating to one or more motifs for the various motifs found along the path, likely intended to teach us to decode… Examples might include extensions and allusions of pirates/bootlegging (like Gatsby) or HHJ trivia or geo attributes around the path or Beatles lyrical allusions (“all you need is the poem”). These are never verbatim that a search engine would help pick up, but always carefully altered to be slightly related while fitting some response. It is my opinion that before Fenn responds to anything, he will research and modify until he reaches entropy. I don’t know Fenn’s military background to know if he was introduced to obfuscating comms through specific forms of encoding, but I have to believe he at least realized the value of keyword substitution (military cockney) as an Aide-de-Camp.
            2) words supporting or relating to physical locations or directions (including final steps) as related to the poem, intended to teach us how to decode. Examples might include “THINK” (ponderosa, home of brown) and “straight forward” (strait of Gibraltar to Pillars of Hercules) and “architect” (frieze groups of the Imagine memorial and Shrine of the Sun) and a focus on woolly worm fly ties (Hully Gully).
            3) personal thoughts about his family and/or searchers’ stories that seemingly moved him to share. Sometimes in later SB’s even these have hints buried in them, for example focus on DG’s truck grill, and also her rooster (capon, Tchepone, Chapman).
            4) entropy or random thoughts that don’t seem to fit the other classes, or maybe I misclassified. This is the smallest set, but most prevailing in the early scrapbooks and other conversational posts. This is truly where a cigar is just a cigar (but is it? Lennon’s memorial in Cuba? Or the cigar Indian at Seven Falls gift shop?) Dal’s scrapbook posts have been omitted from the analysis, not for lacking in extreme cool (I want to be like Dal when I grow up), but because they aren’t from Fenn.

            And… Sorry haters. I also interpret your not so subtle subtexts. But I’m sticking with this until you can provide a better theory that trumps it.

          • I don’t know anything about all of that. Non-fiction, fiction, all I know is that I’ve learned way more about literature following Forrest Fenn’s stories than I ever did in school.

          • If people don’t laugh at your ideas then you’re not dreaming big enough!

          • The perfect antidote to all the naysayers – thanks, William!

            I have a dream…

          • I love playing the Villain – it makes the game enjoyable .. And can make loose rope taught between two opposing points of view .. It can ratchet up the interest — and the tension. In most plays – the greatest plays ever written – the Villain is almost always the greatest, most interesting character in the entire story – the person who plays that Villain gets to dig into the darkest depths .. of who that person is .. why that person says or does something – often in complete opposition to what everyone else is saying .. what drives a person to do the things they do? .. None of us can be the Hero – because, right now, Forrest is the Hero .. but the antithesis of Hero .. is Villain ..

            Until someone finds the Bronze Breasted Beauty,


    • Jeremy,”I like reading… Choose your words with intent.”
      If you haven’t read Norman Maclean’s novel, you really ought to. The way he describes fishing in Montana and the brown trout getting tangled in the brush…talk about writing with INTENT.

  15. I think that Forrest wrote this Scrapbook entry for someone specific.

    Who that person is, I have no idea.

    As mentioned by some, one definition of tangent = an abrupt change of course :

    Is Forrest telling this person, ” Do not make an abrupt change of course from where you said you were going”. or:

    “It doesn’t help to STRETCH a tangent.” f

    Is Forrest saying It does not help to STRETCH (go farther than) a straight line…don’t go around the next bend…or something like that.

    Bottom line, I have no idea what Forrest is saying, nor to whom, but succient IS a nice description of this Scrapbook post.


    • Well said JD, don’t try to stretch something to make it work for us more than what he already did to fit his words.

      • Is that not what a poem does? To have the freedom stretch the meaning of words and phrase to make it work.
        A tangent is a curved line and contains many different vector directions… Did fenn mean straightforwards as in the straight and narrow… or in all honesty? Your choice to see it as ya like, dismissing possibility limits correct directions.

        Just food for thought.

  16. “The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.” George Bernard Shaw

    How many times on this blog has the statement on page 14 been miss-quoted to say “Forrest thinks he only needs to be right 85% of the time” when it is clearly a generalization that suggests something about “non fiction writers”. IMO this SB is nothing more than a cautionary tale targeted at the conspiracy buffs that twist everything Fenn says into a possible clue or hint. Listen at what’s being said about this SB…..some of you think there’s a hint here. Why does there have to be an ominous component to everything the guys says?

    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    • It’s not in the least ominous, IMO. But I will stake everything I hold dear that this particular scrapbook post contains some of the most valuable info F has ever posted here.

      • “It doesn’t matter who you think you are, it only matters who they think you are.”

        Been wondering awhile about what the Flyer meant by this comment.


      • @voxpops – I tend to agree but I’m still working it out with the inputs I’ve been attempting to use from My War For Me. I feel like I was in the right vicinity when I located the burl, and across the gully to the busted up Sega box, but now with this it seems to be suggesting I was on the wrong slope.

        Now it kinda seems to me like anyone who took pictures of Colorado Springs from the views from Old Stage Road and sent those to Fenn will be in the 200 foot club.

          • E.C. I know you won’t be happy until you’ve explored every last inch of your area, and I hope you’ll get a chance to do that very soon. I got fixated on one spot sometime back, and it cost me beaucoup d’argent, plus a lot of time and angst to get it out of my system. But, boy, did I feel better once I’d laid it to rest.

            The Beatles connection is fascinating, and you’ve made intriguing links to other works, but could there be a simpler, less culturally time-bound solution to the poem?

          • @voxpops – sure. I’m only going where my interpretations suggest. I guess I’m like everyone else who wants to finish. If something better comes along that shows an abundance of connection more than this, I’ll quickly jump to it. As Dal will sometimes say “I like to think I’ve gotten smarter about this each time.” So far, this is the smartest outcome I’ve personally come up with, and not many seem to be sharing otherwise…

            So, I guess you’re stuck with me repeating until it gets smarter than canasta seven, Pillars of Hercules with George Washington facing left, rusty stairs, piracy stories, Helen Hunt Jackson and cat connections, a trip through Hully Gully in search of Lewis and Clark, Will Rogers and Penrose, Calderón/Calderstones, the mired enigma of The Beatles, burlarse, Imagine memorial and ending in Strawberry Fields, all with 2 omega signs mysteriously materializing as the path. CE5.

          • @Jake – there are slopes that are slippery in that area because of the ground consistency. I was thinking it was near the Sega, but it seems like he’s suggesting to go back to the other side of the gully. This would make sense to me based on the approach from Old Stage Road versus the approach from Sanford Road.

          • That’s what I thought.
            So your telling us that Forrest is suggesting you to go back.
            Why would he only help you?
            How come he doesn’t help me get closer to the chest.
            I am going to call him right now & give him a piece of my mind!

          • @Jake – each of us takes away something different from what we see and read. I’ve learned your cutting remarks are just your way of communicating.

          • He actually answered my call & asked me what I was smoking?
            I did not have an answer for that, so I hung up.
            I’m still hung up.

          • EC,
            I am glad that you perceive what I’m typing is communication.
            That’s the first step to realty.
            The second step should be wiped off.

          • Ha ha Jake … Yes, you go right ahead and call Forrest and give him a piece of your mind… please let us know what he says….:)

        • E.C. how about a little front range challenge? As resourceful as you are, could you learn the coordinates (sitting at home) of the the 2 rock-shelters near Castlewood Dam?
          I think if I was onsite I could manage it in a day or two. Quite honestly I feel that archeology outweighs the literature aspect of f’s DNA.
          If I had a whole summer to explore up and down the front range, I would spend a day at Roxborough State Park, Waterton Canyon, Cripple Creek, Pueblo Colo & even around the Spanish Peaks…but I have to remind myself that f said he hid it IN the mountains.

    • Hey Colokid,

      I agree with the thought… cautionary. And even though fenn has in the past repeated some other cautions… as far as I can recall there was something asked or stated outright to provoke the comment… the curious thing here is, What provoked this comment?

      Like Loco stated… where the insight to what this is about?
      or it could be… just stirring the pot.

      I know, I know… Seeker is asking more questions, lol.
      I have to, I’m not as smart as some in the chase that have all the answers already.

      • What might have provoked the comment?

        Last Tuesday there was a LOT of discussion re SeanNM burning his copy of TTOTC. Many were
        “Off on a tangent” one might say. Lots of comments,
        little or nothing to do with the actual chase.

        Forrest could be just telling us to get back to basics; back to the poem and the books and maps.

        Just a thought.


        • JD,
          I was down and out last week, where did that discussion take place?
          That’s extreme, don’t you think? I wouldn’t burn the worst book that I’ve read.

        • JD,
          I have always appreciated your comments and way of thinking. I agree. I think FF is saying” get back to basics”. I don’ t believe that FF will ever make a post to aid any searcher, even if they are close. I would wish you luck in the chase but, I don’t believe in luck and besides you could be dangerous to some one seeking “indulgence, as I am. Good
          hunting to you!


          • Kanafire, I agree he would not aid any particular searcher, but the SBs are full of aids to all searchers – this one being no exception, IMO.

    • Colokid – I pretty much agree with what you are saying.

      “I was very careful not to say… Read it again… It doesn’t help to stretch a tangent.”

      Stretch: adapt or extend the scope of (something) in a way that exceeds a reasonable or acceptable limit.

      Tangent: a completely different line of thought or action.

      I often find it mind numbing the level of stretching and the tangents people go off on in regard to the things f speaks or writes. I think this is just one item that f is using as an example to call out the overthinking, overcomplicating, and twisting of his words that is now so predominant. The pendulum has swung far enough out that I think f is looking to give it a nudge back towards the center.

      But it doesn’t matter what he says, it only matters what we think he says. The failure of “so hear me all and listen good” has fallen on a lot of deaf ears. I am sure many will disagree.

        • Once again, he’s very careful.

          “I was hoping someone would say that about that. f

          He did not say – I was hoping you would say that:
          (“Forrest thinks he only needs to be right 85% of the time” when it is clearly a generalization that suggests something about “non fiction writers”. IMO this SB is nothing more than a cautionary tale targeted at the conspiracy buffs that twist everything Fenn says into a possible clue or hint.)

          about that:
          (I was very careful not to say I needed to be correct only 85% of the time. Read it again, middle of page 14. It doesn’t help to stretch a tangent. f)

          But that’s how I read it.

      • Thank you Forrest, with you most recent SB and post it does appear that what you say and write is more straightforward than what most believe, but it’s not going to stop the blogs from making wild assumptions.

      • O.o

        Nah – he’s not helping someone. Why hope someone says something and then say “I was hoping someone would say that about that”? Why not just say it? And which part??

        Stretching a tangent is a math term. If he says no need, isn’t he saying don’t project unnecessarily toward infinity, stay close to the x axis, and more probably, stay close to the “sentir”? See what I did there? That’s Spanish for “hear”, one of the words in the poem.

        Am I the only one noticing that we’re now leaning toward mathematical precision instead of fun anecdotes with buzzard-eagles and scarab beetles? It’s an interesting evolution of the conversation to me. Don’t you think? Just my opinion. I’m looking forward to the potentially enigmatic Scrapbook One Hundred Fifty-Seven as the book pattern suggests this number would be special, assuming Dal doesn’t supersede it with his own like with 150.

      • Forrest, Thanks for noticing?

        But, surely you can see that this remark: “Thanks colokid, I was hoping someone would say that about that.” is even more confusing than some of your other recent musings.

        Colokid posted @ 8:04am, 11:54am and 12:00pm….. which of his posts was your 4:16pm comment in relation to???

        Or maybe this: Your post is directly below JCM’s, 10:10am post, which features “Colokid” prominently at the beginning…… Perhaps you were referring to JCM’s post and mistook it as being posted by Colokid???

        At any rate, without some context to refer to, this: “Thanks colokid, I was hoping someone would say that about that. F” …has no more meaning, to me, than this: “It doesn’t help to stretch a tangent. F”

        Like the rest of these folks, I could speculate all day and still not correctly “guess” what you had in mind.

        But, maybe neither was meant to be easily understood?? Glad to see you’re still active in the Chase and havin’ fun!! I hope you get to go to Fennboree and meet everybody! 🙂

        • “The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.” George Bernard Shaw Colokid @ 8:04am….
          How many times on this blog has the statement on page 14 been miss-quoted to say “Forrest thinks he only needs to be right 85% of the time” when it is clearly a generalization that suggests something about “non fiction writers”. IMO …

          Thanks colokid, I was hoping someone would say that about that. f @ 4:16pm

          The reply button follows the comment to colokid comment. That is about as straightforwards as one can get. The ‘Illusion’ that something is taking place.

          The context is there, “…say that about that…” yet like most things fenn says and comments on, he’ll make one think on their own.

          Oh right.. imo.
          This thread was a hoot.

        • Hey Kevin
          Did I miss something? Where did f say he wants it over? If people are tired of trying to figure the poem out then maybe they should admit it’s above them and move on. I personally think that it’s a great way to keep f young at heart. “To much time on our hands doing nothing at our age will put us into a early cave”
          STAY YOUNG FORREST!!!!
          Oh yea IMO

          • I agree with you, I bet this has been very therapeutic for Forrest, but now it appears he is giving away some pretty heavy hints. IMO.

          • I agree, Kevin. It looks like he wants a thrilling last lap. But I must admit feeling just a little peeved – it took a lot of hard work to uncover the “master plan” (IMO), and now he wants to give it away??? Oh well, one of the cognoscenti had better go get it pretty soon.

        • A little of both, IMO, We all grow tired and weary at times and wish for a certain outcome. Time has a way creating its own perfections. Life is just a complex series of tangents and we are lucky to have someone at the helm that recognizes when we veer off course, wether we realize it or not.

        • I will bet a hard biscuit that the treasure chest isn’t found this year, which I’m sure will be just fine with most everyone here.

          • I’ll be happy to payoff that bet if I’m wrong, E.C.! 🙂 And I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings or touched a nerve by bringing up Dot Island. That was not my intent — quite the reverse. I wanted to encourage healthy skepticism and expectation management as deterrents to any future disappointments. As others have said, you’ve obviously invested quite a bit of time studying external resources to find confirmations for your solutions, and there is certainly nothing wrong with that as long as you don’t force-fit a solution using too many variables. Someone else posted a good idea: what those in the medical field would call a “control” case. Pretend the treasure is somewhere where we know it isn’t — say, Idaho. Then explore how well you can make the clues fit promising places in that state. This will give you a measure of your personal confirmation bias. I think what you’ll discover is that the more clever or resourceful a person is, the easier it is to uncover coincidences. That said, I wish you good luck in any of your solutions that you like enough to put BOTG.

          • @zaphod – nah man. No feelings hurt. I invite the challenge to see it differently. I WANT to see it differently because being anchored on an unproven solution doesn’t accomplish anything, and I want to be done with this. I’m just more accustomed to using intellectual exchanges instead of snark. This place seems to bring out the worst in me with counter-snark.

      • Rats, and I was almost certain that someone was about to find Fenn’s bones in an amusement park! Because, you see, Fenn actually died years ago, and this is all an elaborate…..

          • You read my mind perfectly, Strawshadow. I’m glad a period still means just that! And where I’m from, if we want to hide something real good, we paint it red and put it our front yard.

      • Exactly. You think there was a communication – you believed it. In reality there was no such communication – it never happened. It makes problem solving difficult if not impossible if one thinks there is information/communication and that was just a dream.

    • @Colokid – when you say “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar”, is there a Fenn-ism you are referencing and can point me to? I’m following a tangent.

  17. So what if someone told Forrest exactly where they are going to search for the treasure.
    The precise location down to about a hundred or so square feet.
    Then he comes out with a post that you think relates to what you told him.
    Would this information help you in any way?
    Would you see it as confirmation?
    How does that help or assist you, seeing your going there anyway?

    Anyway it appears this statement is non chase related to clarify something someone has said.
    There’s a bunch of pots stirring here, looks like we’ll need a bigger sink.

    • This is the kind of post that has everyone that has ever emailed Mr. Fenn their take on the chase wondering what this information means for their particular solve. It really is quite clever.

      • threerocks, I agree. If that is the case, then he is saying that he did not include himself in the 15% and whatever that person told him must have been contrary to what he has said to us……in other words they went on a different tangent.

    • Feet firmly on the ground are necessary to avoid confirmation bias. I think that someone would be foolish to take a single comment, or even two or three, as any kind of confirmation, but if the correlations were to keep happening, over time might one then begin to see some degree of confirmation? It’s probably impossible to know, but I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand.

      I also wouldn’t rule out that this statement is very much chase related!

    • Your probably right about that, it seems pretty convoluted whatever it is he’s talking about. I’m seeing connections back to the books for some reason. Just from a basic analysis he chose the topic and page. So……If we are talking math then two lines intersecting might be related to 14. 7 one way and 7 the other…..Then he says middle of the page but its actually off center left. Anyways there might be something here.

    • Hey Jake
      Yep, on everything…The right person who “Thinks” they have the solve completed will understand this statement to it’s core. I’d say more but “if I tell you what the HOB is, you would go right to the treasure chest”. End Quote. A brilliant man once said that…IMHO

  18. Isn’t Forrest telling us that he never said that his book was non-fiction. As a result is the book full of stories that are 85 pct true, however they have been embellished with elements that can be found on the map. Some are clues and some are not.

    Think about this. If you met someone 60 years ago one time, what is the likelihood you would remember the right name and then that that name might match another reference in the story. Could it be that it was selected to be a clue. The story is still directional correct but the details are not.

    • IMO Well, if non-fiction needs to be 85% true and if he was careful not to place his writing in that 85% true, then well . . . perhaps he wrote fiction. Don’t stretch a tangent. That could be off an arc in a shape like a smile, a frown, or a capital D or a backward capital D. Perhaps he just likes telling stories.

      • I had a brother that like telling stories and not a one was the whole truth except for his name the rest was all imagination Sometimes them story’s are the best 🙂 Because you gotta pic the parts that are lies and then find the truth 🙂 within that great big imaginative story .

        • lol.. just picn at you like you did to your brother. My brother is just all lies and will get mad if someone don’t believe him. :-]

          • He was a lier/storyteller but he was good at it He made himself be what ever he wanted to be. And know one ever questioned him he was a capt of ships he led a brigade of men thru a mighty jungle running from gorillas People like him and Forrest are what keep us entertained 🙂 that is what I was saying my brother is dead now and they should of buried him standing up also.

        • I like that, well said. Forrest story about the French soldier and all those who should never be forgotten got to me. I often wonder what will happen with the stories I know of my grandpa and my dad, both now gone, once is my time to go.

          • Hi pd, I do but they were too small to remember their grand and great grand. I guess I can start writing all of the stories I remember and pass them out to them. I don’t know if they will cherish it the way I do. The newer generation seems a bit disengaged from their roots.

          • Hello Oz10. I understand what you are saying. One day they will realize how important family is, and they’ll want to know. Maybe try asking them now if they wish to know about them. It may be us that assume they don’t want to know, when in fact, they’re waiting for us to speak up. Not sure. If they’re not wanting to listen now, write down your stories and share it with them when they’re ready. Mr. Fenn and his memoir has taught me this. 🙂

          • Thanks pd, will do my best. Sometimes it feels like is a race/fight between us and their texting machines like Forrest so eloquently put it.

  19. “I was very careful not to say I needed to be correct only 85% of the time. Read it again, middle of page 14. It doesn’t help to stretch a tangent. f”

    READ IT AGAIN: I don’t think he is saying 85% is the strict minimum, the tangent can be stretch to the positive side as much as to the negative.

    • and imo this statement was direct it to someone, why? because for those who only have the poem and the map, they won’t know what those words mean. Little girl from India is confused this morning.

  20. tan·gent
    1. a straight line or plane that touches a curve or curved surface at a point, but if extended does not cross it at that point.
    2. completely different line of thought or action.
    “he quickly went off on a tangent about wrestling”
    3. the trigonometric function that is equal to the ratio of the sides (other than the hypotenuse) opposite and adjacent to an angle in a right triangle.

    1. (of a line or plane) touching, but not intersecting, a curve or curved surface.

  21. Is he responding to someone’s blog post?
    Maybe someone claimed he said he only needed to be right 85% of the time in doing his poem?

    I don’t know anything for sure, but it does seem to me that people are going off on tangents regularly.
    But that’s to be expected.
    In this case, it seems likely someone was stretching a tangent of Forests’ comment on non-fiction, to make an issue that Forest is now explaining isn’t the case.
    That’s my impression, anyways. (Talk about stretched tangents! LOL)

    • I agree Bob. Some people seem to take his 85% comment to mean he purposely doesn’t tell the truth at least 15% of the time. This is a humorous memoir and I fully expected there to be some embellishment and exaggeration, which he stated he had a natural inclination to do in the very first sentence in TTOTC. Forrest has said many times that he doesn’t try to mislead us. We seem to be able to do a pretty good job of that all on our own! 🙂

  22. Wow, talk about tangents. The comments here are exactly what he’s talking about in my opinion.

    tangent: on a completely different or divergent course, esp of thought: to go off at a tangent.– to pursue a somewhat related or irrelevant course while neglecting the main subject.– to suddenly start doing, discussing, or thinking about something completely different.

    It seems to me Fenn is trying to set the record straight and help the poor fools that are obsessing over the poem dreaming up tangents to support their interpretation of the poem. They are using the 85 percent quote to ignore what he is telling us.

    This comment along with the “little girl from India” comment is telling us that we have to get out and explore to solve the poem not sit behind a screen going off on ridiculous tangents………Just my opinion.

    • Goofy, we all (used loosely) have been doing just that for the past few years. But the fact remains that before you explore, you have to use the poem. I firmly believe that Forrest meant what he said: that you can solve the puzzle with the poem and a good map. Few who live far away from the Rockies can afford to just go exploring whenever they feel the urge or get an insight.

      I will say it again: this particular SB holds critical information, IMO. I have never been moved to say that about any other SB, even though they often appear to contain useful tidbits. This one is, however, a colossus!

      Of course, it can also be read two (or more) ways. I can see how your interpretation is also an accurate reflection. People are going off at tangents. But the fact remains that certain searchers are going to find more than coincidental correlation with their calculations. It’s all in the eye of the beholder.

      Again, IMO!

      • Vox, while you are working yourself into a lather, I agree wholeheartedly with ” I firmly believe that Forrest meant what he said: that you can solve the puzzle with the poem and a good map.”

        I seriously doubt Fenn would have allowed all the hype over this challenge if we couldn’t learn (or get up to speed on) most of it from home.

        Isn’t ‘learning’ his real motivation here? Motivating our sissy generation to get off the couch, otherwise they’ll never understand why half a million people walked across the plains.
        Had he not said… “figure out what the clues mean, go with confidence to the chest etc. etc.” I would be more inclined towards the BOTG theory. IMO

        • NineClues,

          You said: “Had he not said… “figure out what the clues mean, go with confidence to the chest etc. etc.”

          What a perfect example of going off on a tangent. I’ll bet you can’t provide a reference to that statement stated that exact way. IMO It sounds as if you’ve melded several unrelated quotes together to provide a whole new meaning.

          Is there such a quote?

        • No lather here, although I did have a shower this morning! 😉

          Win or lose, I agree, the education has been amazing!!

        • Hey 9 clues
          Forrest didn’t just say you could find the TC with his poem and a good map he said that all you need is to figure out the clues in the poem. I think he’s right. I completed my solve and then double checked it with the poem and things where working out fine, then I still wasn’t positive so I picked out certain hints in the books to see if there where clues in those hints and low and behold there is.
          Don’t ask me why I haven’t ddddddd? Because I have my reason but if things change in my life then i will be dddddddto the Rocky Mountains.

      • Vox,
        You said: “People are going off at tangents. But the fact remains that certain searchers are going to find more than coincidental correlation with their calculations. It’s all in the eye of the beholder.”

        That’s what we call confirmation bias (finding coincidence and correlation where none exists) and it’s the bane of every searcher. I believe that most people don’t get this until they’ve logged several failed solutions. Although many may never get it.

        Good luck.

        • For some, their worlds are upside down in a bad way…never to be the same. Some have been wise to their demise and walked away…

          • Ken, you may well be correct, but you do need to be able to point to why others’ worlds are upside down, if that’s what you believe. If you’re referring to my solution, I’ve been very careful not to give away any important pointers (although something could have slipped the net), and so I doubt you have any substantive reason to say why. But I’m always open to suggestions…

        • Couldn’t agree more, Colokid. Just remember, though, that nothing Fenn posts here is random or meaningless. And to some it may have real meaning.

          I have logged several failed solutions, so – believe me – I get it.

  23. To anyone’s knowledge has Fenn ever said or written this 85% comment outside of TTOTC besides now?

    Sometime folks like to use others words against them this might be the case here.

  24. Funny thing is, after reading this from you, I cracked open the book again. It had been sitting next to our bed since I last put it down, re-reading it and thinking. The research for my chase comes and goes, but I am always thinking. Would that still be considered research… Low and behold I had it marked on that exact page.

    My search started off with just the poem. Going down the rabbit hole of thought and juggling college and University at the same time. Making spontaneous decisions to drive to my spots all the way from Cali. I would tell my wife on a Monday that I’d be leaving on Thursday. The first time, she did not believe me…. My poor wife, the first couple of trips she sure did worry. She would join me on subsequent trips. I would drive all day and into the night, get to the spot and sleep in the car or pitch a tent. The next and following day would start early and end late. I wasn’t too frustrated that I hadn’t found it, because what I had found was myself back in the woods, mountains, and nature in God’s country. I grew up in the region and know the mountains like the back of my hand, but other responsibilities had pulled me away.

    When the mainstream noises subside and you find yourself in the meadows, full of flowers, the creeks and the sound of water near by, the luminous mountains, slumbering giants, quietly watching, the trees glowing with life, the smell of pine and sage that you’ve crushed between your fingers, as a soft, sweet, chilli breeze and sunshine touches your skin, you can hear God speaking to you. You can let the weight of the world go, and just live and enjoy.

    Reading the book afterwards has only reaffirmed my thinking.

    Good luck to all of you searchers, but be safe and go prepared for an overnight stay, because it is better to have and not want then need and not have. If you are hiking remember Mr. Fenn ‘ s guidance on altitude and how far out to go. In the mountains, the direct path isn’t always the best route.

    Semper Fidelis!!!!

  25. Forrest seems to have thought of everything for this chase. I often wonder if he predicted much about how people would behave and has a litany of phrases ready, just waiting for the moment to be used.

    • When you’ve worked on something for 15 years (plus the time since he hid it), it must prepare you for just about anything. Yes Mark, I’ll bet he has them at the ready.

  26. ” Don’t stretch the tangent.”
    Angles of elevation and depression. IMO
    Forrest, I picked up ” The call of distant place’s” Leon Gaspard. I love my new book. Will treasure it always.
    Happy Mothers to your family of mothers and to all other mothers on this blog.

  27. I would offer the suggestion to re-read Scrapbook #107 and study the $5 bill and placement of the pen and cap. See if you can’t find a “tangent” using these objects with whatever map you are studying for your solve. IMO!

  28. Also, a few comments noted by folks regarding “85” plus or minus and 85%… how about an 85 degree angle?? Mas o menos.

  29. IMO Still waters run deep and a few beautiful salmon whites on shorter 16s in the moonless night could provide great pleasure including a good time. 🙂 More like forbidden fruit.

    • Don’t take it home in one trip – IMO I think a pound at a time would be good. Early riser or last chance before the moon rises. I’m an early riser and if I could go, I would remember to pull back the tangent. Afterward, I like to celebrate it with eggs and buttered muffins while watching the sun rise.

  30. Anybody else get strengthen from the words stretch and tangent? This is a big clue! I’ll be sure to look just and so!

  31. Yeah, I think he wants us to just go back to the basics, stop and reset.

    Too many conspiracy theories, wild solutions, grasping of straws…and those people tend to get pretty obsessed to the point everyone else is wrong, and picky venters just spoil the fun.

    F doesn’t have to be hinting something at everything he says, except…cool the tangents!
    ¥Peace ¥
    ♡♡Happy Mother’s Day, Peggy!♡♡

  32. In my humble opinion, if I were to describe ‘Fennish’ to a non-native speaker in six words, I would say “it’s a confluenza of word meaning”. I wish all the chasers a thrilling and very safe hunting season!

  33. The moral of this scrapbook is Forrest don’t want his tangent stretched unless he stretches it 🙂 himself 🙂

      • @Diggin – I speculate this was supposed to be a hint from the fires that swept through the Black Forest near Colorado Springs in 2013.

          • Hope not but to me looks like the flame when out for a reason represents something Haha nite

          • If I may also add, it’s possible with many more new people coming into the chase, they may not have known he went by “Forrest Fire” and it was easier to go under his name without adding any confusion.

          • @Diggin

            Maybe he put the fire out so the bunnies wouldn’t get burnt??? 🙂

        • Hello E.C. Waters. I believe he may have used it in the earlier years when the chase started. Going with your thoughts, it could hint at the 1988 Yellowstone fires. I know there’s been other fires to consider within the four search states. You may be correct, though. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

          • But why did Forrest lose his flame ??? That is the question :-)he once was Forrest fire and now he is Forrest fenn :-)someone blew out the flame !!!!!

          • DG-
            Forrest only leaves “comments” using Forrest Fire. He hasn’t used Forrest Fire when signing his scrapbooks or other posts….
            He hasn’t commented in awhile on this blog…but when he does I think he’ll be using Forrest Fire again.
            But there is something odd about how he signs his scrapbooks and other writings on this blog..
            Sometimes he signs them “f” and sometimes “ff”. I wonder if he does that for a reason.

          • All we can do is go hmmmmmmm dal hehe 🙂 I’m
            Sure he has a reason he is a crafty one 🙂

          • So are you saying that wasn’t Forrest that said he liked what colo kid said Was that a imposter

          • Diggin-
            Boy!! Am I wrong or what???
            I did some searching here on the old blog and made a few personal revelations…
            It turns out that Forrest has commented more than 20 times as Forrest Fenn..
            The last time he used Forrest Fire, that I could find was back in May of 2015.
            The first time he commented using Forrest Fenn, that I could find was in July of 2015.
            Sorry for steering you wrong…I just haven’t been paying attention I guess..
            I hope Goofy doesn’t nuke me over this…

            By the way..I also discovered that Diggin Gypsy has (probably accidentally) used Digging Gypsy a hat full of times on this blog…

          • Hahaha we all make mistakes :-). Wow a whole hat full yippee ki yea 🙂

          • I find this very interesting that he switched it Something blew his flame out I would love to know who all was searching in may last year besides me can we do a hand count hahhahaha

          • @pdenver – my name has given me all kinds of derivations since early school. I imagine he has had the same, including this one.

            It would be somewhat curious to learn from Goofy or Dal or someone good with Google when the first Forrest Fire post appeared here.

          • Forrest put his own flame out that represent s something only to him and now it’s out that would be like diggin without the gypsy

          • Diggin,

            That was exactly my first thought, when I read Dal’s comments!! 🙂

          • Hello locolobo. Join the crowd. If I’m not mistaken, Dal was saying Mr. Fenn sometimes uses “Forrest Fire” when he makes comments, such as I’m doing now. When he does Scrapbooks, etc., he signs it as “f” or “ff.”

          • pd, agrred on that point. I’ve been here long enough to see Fenn use both.

            Dal’s comment, “He hasn’t commented in awhile on this blog…” (referring to Fenn, I assume)…..is what Diggin was questioning.

            ‘Someone’ posted here, yesterday, as Forest Fenn…..who was it???

          • I guess a imposter Forrest only comments under Forrest fire by what dal said

          • @locolobo and @pdenver – If google is reporting accurately, Forrest Fire started posting here May 23, 2014 in the section titled Poetry Page I… Dal included his own note to confirm it was Fenn.

            The Black Forest fire over 9 days in June 2013 was the most destructive in Colorado history, above Waldo and Royal Gorge. Put into perspective, for someone who mentions jack about Colorado and plenty about the other 3 states, this would (of course) seem to me to be a hint to have a closer look at El Paso County.

          • It was Fenn loco…..My Deluxe Wee Gee Board Mouse Pad says so.

            Well, it’s also the same IP he has used before. But we know IP’s can be spoofed. You can’t fool my Deluxe Wee Gee Board Mouse Pad. 🙂

          • Dal said he made a mistake it was Forrest he use to use Forrest fire and now switched back to Forrest fenn. Just a mistake 🙂

          • If we had a wee gee mouse pad we could ask what if the IP’s are the same… I asked my magic 8 ball, it read, ask again later.

          • @dal:

            Dang, I sure thought we had you that time. Man, you are a slippery cuss!! 🙂

            Thanks again for hosting this site and for everything you and Goofy do!!! (andya’ll put up with 🙂 :

          • Hello E.C. Waters. Thank you for the comment. I sat here dazed at what I read. I’ll have to go back and look at Poetry Page 1; it’ll be nice to read the penning. I’ve gone through some scrapbooks and noticed Forrest Fire and I thought I remembered reading that it is, indeed, Mr. Fenn. What a night. 🙂

          • @E. C. Waters:

            Did you know that Forrest once said, “supercalifragilistic”??? I bet there is a clue there….somewhere!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

            Good Luck to Ya!!!……….loco

          • @Goofy:

            Thanks!!! I kinda figgered it was Fenn all along. I just couldn’t resist Diggin’s lead-in to twist Dal’s tail a little bit!! 🙂

            I know, I’m a baad boy and it’s gonna get me in trouble one of these days!!! 🙂 🙂

            —by the way, can your Deluxe Wee Gee Board Mouse Pad tell me where this post is gonna wind up???? 🙂 🙂

        • E.C.,
          Go with the Waldo canyon Fire that came down Ute pass as well as part of Colorado springs. It would make more sense. The flying W ranch was wiped out and some homes aswell. If it would of jumped hwy 24 it could of climbed the Peak. The burn scar left behind is what causes Manitiou springs to flood.

  34. So stretching is off limits? Hmmm…would it help to sketch a tangent?

    Just kidding, I’ve been eating too many donuts. My health coach told me I should eat more avocados. I’ll try.

    • DG –

      Beer makes you have googles,
      Tequila will make you learn Spanish,
      Vodka is liquid courage,
      Coffee makes you think fast,
      Tea is for friendship,
      Where do warm waters halt anyway?


  35. Maybe its a hint to every one. He is telling us his poem is 100% true. IMO FF said that the poem is straight forward. There’s too many people going off on tangents.

    I haven’t read all the post so excuse me if I duplicating what someone else has already expressed.
    (sorry if I stepped on any toes, my comments are not directed at any one but us all as a group, IMO)

  36. Isn’t it funny how a nights rest can clear the err of ideas or shower down thoughts of turmoil? I went to bed for the night while this thread was on my mind. While there may be a hint in this Scrapbook, I have seen something else. On searchers thoughts going off on a tangent, allow me the daughtiness to get this out of control train back on track before it pummels to certain ruin. As of the previous Scrapbook, many have let their ideas tangent off to some character (whom may have little thereof) on Chase Chat burning a forrest fenn book. Those many go on and on about this character and f’s feelings about the burning of said book. I would gather that f could care less what a person does to his or her owned property. Give this some thought… Forrest dropped the “fire” issue and maybe everyone else should as well. IMO, it is a distracting tangent. All, just IMO.

  37. Dear Forrest,

    Thank you for the edifying words. We had a lot of fun on our most recent adventure and look forward to the next one. : )

  38. EPILOGUE pg. 145 TTOTC
    ” And what I’ve learned that’s most important is that both countries and people should know enough to just leave other folks alone and do a better job of protecting our planet.”

  39. Need clarification from the experienced searchers, I must be slooow… this whole thing is about the book or the poem, or both? if I use imagination when solving the clues I have to keep it measured within a percentage?

    • “There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”

      “…. I’ve said searchers should go back to the poem so many times that I don’t want to say it again here. ff”

      “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta.” f

      “…What surprises me is that so many ignore the first clue in the poem. Without it all the searcher has is the memory of a nice vacation.”

      “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f”

      “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.”

      “Get the Thrill of the Chase and read it; and then go back and read the poem, over and over and over again. And then go back and read the book again but slowly looking at every little abstract thing that might catch up in your brain, that might be a hint that will help you with the clues. Any part of some is better than no part of any. ”

      Question posted 7/6/2014:
      “The person that finds it, is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.” 

      “Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking.  Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.”

      LOL Oz.. pick one, anyone… Hope this helps!!

      • Got it. I’m going with this one:

        “The person that finds it, is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.”

        • I like…
          “…Any part of some is better than no part of any.”

          While I have been called a poem purist… I have never said the book is not helpful… I simply argue it’s not totally “needed.”

          My reference to that is the radio interview when fenn stated… you don’t need to read my book, you need to decipher the clues, the book will help. [ that is a paraphrase, you can find it in the media section]

          Personally I think the book can be more confusing because a reader will tend to force fit a hunch to work with a method of solving the poem, rather than having some idea of the poem first.

          Just my thoughts… take it with a grain of salt.

    • @Oz10 – opinions vary with as many interpretations. You’re asking how deep is a hole? In my opinion, there is a bit of math involved for the 9th location, suggesting precision is important.

        • @Oz10 – Reinforced? It’s the same confidence as before any new words. All the old ones still reinforce. My confirmation bias is on full blast.

          Math: calculating the center of a polygon, and maybe “brave” is traversing a slope at a diagonal angle (Spanish for “dare”). I believe he is “in the middle”, and wanting to replicate the Imagine memorial from Central Park. That seems to make the most artistic sense to me within my total lack of ability to understand art and him.

          Otherwise, to me, “title to the gold” should also plainly plot where it should be, at least in close proximity for a metal detector sweep. I guess I still have a few places to check until I fully understand “in the wood”, unless he means “burlarse”.

          • It’s been long for me since geometry and trigonometry class. A polygon is how many sides 7 or 9?

          • Anything with 3 or more. It is a general description. A triangle is a three sided polygon and a square is a four sides one and so on.

  40. Wow. That’s a pretty compact scrapbook…one couldn’t even fit an Oldsmobile in there, much less hit a homer. anyhow….


    I was just reading about the Cory Spangenberg of the MLB and MIND=BLOWN

    Get this…after leaving his high school team, The Comets, behind, in just 2009- (batting left and catching right) Cory Spangenberg was the first round 10th overall selection in the 2011 MLB draft. He Sined with the Padres. By 2012 he was the 81st best prospect in baseball.

    “It was just so full of entropy…definitely frustrating,” Spangenberg said of his 3-for-37 (.081) start at Fort Wayne “I had never struggled before. In high school and college, I had always had good years. So that was something new for me to learn”

    Look at Jones- Bad luck played the whole roll in missing his shot at history… On May19, 1975, he pitched a one-hitter in a 1-0 10-inning win over the Cardinals where the lone hit came on a ball Jones couldn’t field.

    Then, oddly, not even two months later, on July 3, 1975 against Cincinnati, Jones had a perfect game until the eighth inning when, he says, “Hector Torres picked up a ground ball and threw it eight rows into the seats! And, I thought, ‘there goes the perfect game.”’ Two batters later, Reds backup catcher Bill Plummer hit a flair for a double down the rightfield line to break up the no-hitter.

    It couldn’t have been Joe Morgan, Johnny Bench or Pete Rose that broke up the no-hitter,” Jones says. “No, it had to be the backup catcher…I still see Bill and I say “you’re killing me, just admit it, it really should have been Pete Rose.”

    But alas, The Padres have given up at least one hit in every game they’ve played: “No-hitters are not easy to get,” says manager Bud Black, himself a former pitcher. “In every no- hitter, you need a pitcher with talent and multiple pitches. You need to get two or three better-than- average plays and one or two great plays.”

    But Black doesn’t worry what his staff says about the no no-nos: “There’s so much changing of personnel these days. The modern-day players might not all be up to speed on the history much less the degrees of dynamics of the team….”

    Isn’t that wild? Sorry for coming out of left field like that…I just thought it was way too cool.

      • Thx MT…this one almost imploded my brain just to get every single detain in one post. Talk about entropy!! I was really hoping at least one person would understand- so glad one did.

  41. Just as he says, IMO, nothing more. But… I have thought for a while that there is a major clue on page 15 so it’s kind of curious that he has us opening the book here. Probably nothing but you never know.

    • Where awareness begins? His mind stays at about 13?
      1947, 7th grade — Jump start & Ford a river here?

      Recall that in 2nd grade (?) a Miss Ford told him to change his Bessie -browned pants. … a precursor to rust browned pants?

      So many hints to ponder.

  42. Whoa..Is Cory Spangenberg on that Page by any chance? That’s his number!…but that would be a really random coincidence though as my log of events just occurred on a whim. Yeah, probably noT a score, I’m thinking low probability- and I’ll leave it at that. Don’t want to get all excited. F seems to keep his Poetic art a bit more simple and square anyhow, but hey- maybe it’s a sign. I guess you’re right though- Ya never know for sure!

      • No- those are real stories, I just picked them out based on the numbers inside. 85 is true. And if you need at least 85 that puts you at 92.5 with a margin of error of 7.5. Solve for x tangent .081 etc. just wrote as many tangents as humanly possible down to thermodynamics and stuff then found baseball examples to parallel. Nothing too fun. Lol

  43. As they used to say in Vietnam, ‘Never lose sight of the primary objective’. This recent SB seems a cautionary suggestion that overthinking, over analyzing, and straying from the objective or poem or quest is counter productive. It makes one wonder how much time ff put into layering the poem/quest in the beginning. Do you think he intended this to still be ongoing five years into it? Did he plan and layer the trail of logic in the poem to this extent? If this ever ends in someone locating the chest using the poem rather than dumb luck, it will be interesting to hear ff’s retrospective on whether this process met his intended degree of complexity or were we just slower than he anticipated. Did he plan that after five years of searching we would uncover the cipher that makes all things clear? Now that would be amazing, and truly hard to imagine. I certainly wish I were able to come search and apply my solve, and I envy those close enough to be able to do so. As a side note it is beautiful country and an incredibly fun adventure. Forrest did well, for a zoomie! Us grunts on the ground in the paddies appreciate everything they did for us in support! Let the chase continue! Be safe!

    • OJ — I think it’s almost impossible to predict how hard or easy a challenge like this can be. The puzzle designer faces unavoidable bias in assessing the difficulty of his creation. Since he knows the answers to his clues, following them may seem too easy, which can drive him to make the clues a bit more obscure. Think about the fine line between an unsolvable puzzle, and one that takes a million people a hundred years to hit on the solution. The only thing we know for sure is that he didn’t make the challenge too easy. That not just people but *searchers* have been within a couple hundred feet of the chest at some point during the last 5 years suggests the mystery is indeed solvable.

      • I like it Zap. Very good points.
        200′ but yet 10,000 years?
        I need to know which came first.
        I would assume the 10,000 year statement came before the 200′.
        I will need y’all help in doing my homework for me.

          • As I recall (I am away from my notes right now) that two parties had figured out the first two clues by the second summer and at least one of them had stopped within several hundred feet of the treasure chest.

            I believe this happened before f spoke of his plans and thinking 100 years, even a 1000 years for it to be found.

            If it is true that someone has figured out 4 of the clues, I think this speaks volumes to the clues being difficult to figure out and it will take time and persistence to slowly work through it all. Any thinking or beliefs that the whole solution will all just come together and the whole thing solves itself is a bunch of bunk to me.

          • Seeker,
            It says to me the correct solve is not as simple as some of us think.
            But the fact of 200′ & 10,000 years doesn’t jive to well with me & others.
            Somewhere in the middle lays the treasure.

          • Jake… those who have indicated the first two clues, and maybe 4 now, and those who have been near 200′ have one thing in common… they did not know. For me, that alone should say how difficult this is.

            I asked this question before and I only got a few to answer it as they did consider it… Most didn’t… When trying to solve the poem do you consider 1000 – 10,000 years down the road?

            It’s not hard to see the reasoning behind it. 15 years of re-write [ I won’t say he spent all his time on it, but it needs consideration at least of effort put into it] and more than 20 years from start to the hiding of the chest, and making it public.

            Do folks really think this is going to be a walk in a park? Ya better be as dedicated as fenn was, when he thought of this…

        • Jake – two search parties figuring out the first two clues and at least one of them being within several hundred feet were both stated by f in October 2012. f made the comment on 100 years, even 1000 years in March 2013, and then 100, 1000, 10,000 years in October 2013.

          Yet 1000 years in the future will make the chest more difficult to find because the Rocky Mountains are still changing.

          If someone is onto it and has figured out 4 clues and they continue to move forward, I would guess their rate of getting the others could have them potentially figuring it all out in the next 1-3 years; there are just too many variables to nail anything down though.

          I can only imagine it is one of those few who are in tight focus with a word that is key and thus caused f to consider that the chest might be found sooner than he had expected.

          When considering f’s comments on these various points, it is easy to see just how much people downplay and underestimate f when he says that it is difficult, but not impossible.

        • So what is it about the two clues that two parties were able to figure out in just over a year, then nothing for several years and f’s comment about the India girl (or other people from other places) only getting as close as the first two clues using a map of the Rocky Mountains?

          Geez, I am starting to sound like Seeker! 🙂

          • JCM,
            It’s more achievable than some think.
            How could it be 10,000 years down the road but yet some have been within 200′?
            Yea, there’s a lot of searchers tracking back in past years & even more areas this year.

          • JCM

            Welcome to My World.
            It’s not s journey for the faint-hearted… ya gonna need a crash helmet.

          • Crash helmet nothing… I’m going to go check myself into a facility with padded rooms. 🙂

      • Jake, you win your bet.

        Although he didn’t say it in the exact way we’re accustomed to hearing, he seems to have been quite aware of the 10,000 year possibility in August of 2011…..and accepting/at peace with that possibility.

        “if someone finds that thing a 1000 years from now or 10,000 years from now, that is going to be an interesting discovery.”


        And, as of Feb. 4 of this year, he seemed quite comfortable with the level of difficulty, and complexity, presented by the Poem:

        “If I had it all to do over again the results would be the same, and I can’t think of anything I would change. I feel fortunate that my poem said exactly what I wanted it to say.”


          • You’re stirring vigorously now, Jake!!

            Let me ask you a question,

            Without having the associated questions for context, what does this comment imply to you:

            “Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.”

            ……………loco 🙂

          • Glad you get my humor Loco.
            It suggests that the treasure will be found sooner than expected.
            That’s just my one line version.
            I think it suggests more but I’m at work now.

          • Loco,
            It’s not a valid question without the other context.
            It’s like the media just selecting a morsel of what someone said & twisting it.
            The fact of the matter there was a question to get this answer.

            I don’t even know who or what this statement is about without other info.
            You need to give more detail.

          • Hello Jake. Please excuse the delay. There is no retirement from Honey Do’s! 🙂

            You are correct, but Fenn did make that comment.

            All I’m asking is your imaginative conclusion of the meaning, based on your knowledge of the Chase…… To use your press analogy– suppose you walked by as Fenn made that statement to someone else, and that is all you heard??

          • Well Loco, you got to make the Honey happy. You do have your priorities straight.

            I would think it may have been me if I told him exactly where I was going, but there are thousands of other searchers & places that statement could apply to. Either way I’m not sure how much it helps considering he did not name anyone or anyplace specific.
            It does still suggest to me that you can throw 1,000+ years out the window seeing someone was that close.

          • LOL!! Well Jake, I’m on the same boat as you. Since I don’t communicate privately with Fenn, the comment wasn’t directed at me.

            I seriously doubt that it was directed at anyone in particular. I just find it interesting, the way it is phrased and the format it was presented.

            I’m sure a lot of searchers, as you do, see it as obvious that someone, possibly that close, would find the chest before a thousand years had passed.

            I see that, but also another possibility. A possibility more in line with what Seeker posted: ‘what if I was looking so far ahead that I neglected to notice what was beside me.’

            As we all have questioned, what is the reason that searchers have walked past the other clues, and the chest??

          • loco,
            “As we all have questioned, what is the reason that searchers have walked past the other clues, and the chest??”

            They didn’t recognize the clues in the poem in relationship to where they were.
            They knew where they were, but not in the sense of the clues in the poem.

          • Jake,
            Yessir, you definitely hit the nail on the head there. But, that is something I have known since I read the first 200 foot remark, over three years ago.

            I won’t bother you with more questions. I was just curious to see if anyone, except perhaps Seeker, had hit on the most plausible explanation as to why they didn’t “recognize” the clues in front of them…..or, beside them, as the case may be. (IMO)

            It was enjoyable……..loco

        • A hypothetical example of a “what if” might be, what if I was looking so far ahead that I neglected to notice what was beside me.
          FF march 24 – 16

          • Seeker,

            Perhaps you might be concentrating on getting home to warm up and get a good meal that you’ve tuned everything else out.

          • mrnagant,

            My thoughts were more to the 1000 – 10,000 years down the road conversation. While I personally think the poem holds a timeline of sorts… I think we need to look in both directions when interpreting the clues.

            @ Jake. It seems you read the comment as, the chest can only be found in a future time period, and wonder how some have managed to be within 200′ and that contradicts the 10,000 years down the road comment.

            My point is, none of the searcher knew they were that close, nor did the searchers know they were at or indicated they had the first two clues. The hypothetical comment from FF seems to be saying two things… imo… Can the places the clues refer to exists in the past, present and still in the future?
            Did those searcher keep going to look for the other [7] clues, going away from the first two? never to look behind them. Is the ‘Big Picture’ only to mean size?

            Folks can argue that this is a directional, step by step, botg only method… but does that method limit the possibilities?
            One down fall of the step by step method only… it forces you to keep moving forwards.

            “what if I was looking so far ahead that I neglected to notice what was beside me.”

          • Yes Seeker,
            200′ vs 10,000 years.
            No they didn’t know they were that close & don’t know who it was or where it was, but I’ll bet since that statement came out, there’s been alot of backtracking by the ones who went out searching before.
            You also have to take into consideration that someone may have been closer than 200′ but he does not want to give this as a hint/clue.

  44. There are a lot of stretched tangents on this blog. Fun to read but tangents nonetheless. When I read this, one and only one blogger came to mind. 😉
    @colokid, ff responded to your post but I would like to add, you hit the nail right on the head. Atta boy.

  45. MartinS,

    Don’t ask me to tell you how the following link ‘appeared’ on my screen…. I have no idea!!


    Considering mention of…..”Dragon & Hercules” plus a Star Constellation Globe caught my inquisitive eye, I decides to bookmark and paste the link.

    Are you the same MartinS ?

    If you’ll excuse me; I’ll return back to my corner and put that tin foil hat on….again!!


    • Hi SL,

      I am the same. Not sure how the link “appeared” on your screen unless you clicked on my name.

      I also have a tin foil hat (or two…you never know when you’ll need a backup).


  46. Regarding comments at MW

    EC, Charlie, Jackie… I mean no disrespect – but your thoughts could not be further away from Forrest Fenn’s Thrill of the chase; “grab every banana”; out hustle the crowd philosophy. He determined not to be poor and to deal only in luxuries so his profit margin made him wealthy. By his own game he dares us to find an amamazing treasure which could change lives for the better.

    So please kindly inform us if Forrests ttotc is simply an illusion of wealth and cannot be obtained. I will quit spending time and money on ff’s thrill if it’s all an unattainable illusion.

    • @42 – not sure what you mean. I absolutely believe there is a hidden chest in Strawberry Fields in Colorado Springs, and that much of what Fenn is saying points to it.

      • But E.C., just last year weren’t you equally convinced the chest was on or near Dot Island in the middle of Yellowstone Lake (thus your choice of avatar)? You constructed an equally elaborate, tangent-filled set of reasons why it was there and how the connections you found couldn’t all be coincidences. If you think back to your level of confidence in the Dot Island solution at that time, I would think that experience would rein in your expectations a bit.

        • @zaphod – you are absolutely correct. And I exited the chase. I was done. Very done.

          And then something in the background of my ridiculous brain clicked on how to try to interpret synonyms. I came back to start catching up. I applied this click to Mammoth Hot Springs, but still felt I was missing something big. I couldn’t interpret the poem sequentially, just the book was returning a lot of hits. It was a red herring. I was looking at the wrong Pillar of Hercules, as linked by the 12 Labors of Hercules and the story of Cody.

          When I looked at Pillars of Hercules in the other states and found Seven Falls, many of the features were correlated to the book much faster with less effort than was happening in Mammoth Hot Springs, and so were the outlier social media posts, like canasta. But I didn’t actually have wwwh until I began mining the Scrapbooks. The Black-“crested” (supposed to be “chested”) Buzzard-Hawk and inclusive macaw post is what opened it up for me with La Buse. It connected immediately to Great Gatsby, but I was still missing wwwh. Once I located Ranomafana, Haute Matsiatra, and manually linked it Ramona Falls, but then later automated on its own with the guidance tuning of Scrapbook 107, I couldn’t sleep. The new way of parsing tokens and comparing to homonyms, including Spanish synonyms and comparing these to English dictionary words, was outputting enough positive indicators to be significant.

          But the double omega path on Google Earth is what shocked me the most. It then became my opinion that once all of this is completed, the outcome story will generate so much more buzz than the speculation of “is he or isn’t he a fraud?” Did you know the word “fraud” translate in Spanish to empanada? That’s like “pie” in English. He said something to that effect, that we have no idea what words mean and that we’re using them incorrectly. For years after we will be going back, combing through everything he said, and showing where he was pointing to it all along.

          So for me to have this much conviction about any solution at all now after having figuratively burned my book, imagine how much content will have had to correlate in order to motivate me, and especially for me to be out full blast and unmoving on this one theory.

          Also, consider that just because I was wrong before doesn’t indicate a future pattern. My probabilities have actually increased to my favor if I am applying past learning.

          All in my opinion.

          • Sounds to me like: 2sq ft searched…… Several million sq ft to go. 🙂

          • @Signholder – incorrect. I’ve actually been out many times. See my twitter feed @mikebibler for evidence.

          • Just be careful about over confidence. If I wrote my adventures and solutions of the past 4 years it would be very similar to yours.

            If there’s one thing I have learned it’s coincidences are very common in the Rockies because there’s only ~100 names that are applied to all the rivers, creeks, mountains and forest. (they lacked imagination)

            During my research I kept telling my wife – “What are the odds?” Finally one day she replied – “pretty high because this is the fifth time this year you’ve found a one in a million spot.”

            A good test if to randomly pick a spot in a non-Rocky mountain state and see if you can link it to the chase. I bet you can come up with a great solution in a week that will convince you to fly there. lol.

          • That is so true, Indy. Name, rinse, repeat…

            But when it comes down to it, although I think place names are important in the Chase, I believe concept is king.

          • @Indy – please do. I would love to move off of this one and onto something even more relevant and connected than this. Trust me, the ongoing negativity hurts my feelings because I’m a sensitive d-bag.

    • Perhaps EC is a modern day Joseph Smith – confidently leading others to promises of buried riches; only to find the loot “slipping away” or “going down” when they get close to it. For buried treasure that is protected by a curse or a spell will slip down into the earth so that it can’t be recovered except by those who know how to get around the magic spell.

        • @E.C. until there is evidence otherwise, your theory is just as valid as anyone’s. Not sure why you get so much flack.

          • @Pandora – likely I come across as arrogant when I only mean to convey exuberance.

      • Hey Pandora
        Did you watch “Myth Busters” today? That’s what it was about. The Spanish GOLD still buried in Colorado. Oh yea, Did I forget to mention 33 million in gold >>>

      • Pandora- It is clear that you know nothing about Joseph Smith. I don’t usually take offense at ridiculous comments people make on this page, but I feel that I need to speak up on this one. If you don’t know or understand Joseph Smith, then at least kindly respect that he is highly respected as an early leader in a church with 13 million members around the world. I think it is important to respect the religion of others, regardless of our own beliefs. This treasure hunt has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone’s religion unless it is the connection to FF and a place that is special to him.

        Good luck in the Chase!
        -Sheri (aka Puzzled)

  47. Hola amigas and amigos from the high desert.
    Chad here, thought I would drop in and let you all know
    I have relocated to southern Ca. Just about 75 miles from death valley.
    So in celebration of that I am changing my name ers.to High Desert Drifter.

    Best of luck to all serchers

  48. I read you loud and clear Forrest Fenn…My location is huge, but if I know where to start, the poem will lead me to the treasure. Precision is not possible with regards to the location. But the destination within the location is small enough that precision is possible. Now, if I could only locate the location within the destination, I might have a shot, as long as I don’t go off on a tangent. 😉

    • E.C. I’m always stunned at the connections you make, and the effort you put in, and I don’t want to rain on your parade – because I know how hurtful thoughtless comments can feel when you’re on the receiving end. But before you disappear down the Madagascar rabbit hole, I’m wondering whether you might want to think for a while about the words, sentences and structure of the poem, without reference to anything external. I can’t prove to you that that’s the way to go, but my voyage of discovery has been just as rich as if I’d surrounded myself with literature and history (even Mr. Fenn’s) – and yet it all stems from those nine sentences.

      Just a thought and an opinion.

        • Unfortunately,I can’t reveal anything until I’ve tested my theory, because I don’t care to be trampled in the ensuing stampede. 😉 All I can suggest is that if you follow Mr. Fenn’s advice regarding the poem, it will eventually reveal its inner logic, precision and beauty.

          I know this is not what you want to hear, but it’s the best I can do right now. Good luck!

          • @vox – judging from everything I’ve seen, you can shout to the world what your solution is and no one will care, and more likely will occasionally pop up with a wtf. Your public solution is safe with just you.

        • EC, I think you mis-interpreted my earlier post. I think your analysis is brilliant, but I only caution you on using correlations and coincidence to lock onto a spot.
          I won’t show examples here, but take some of those items you found at Seven Falls and see how they correlate to other places in the Rockies.

          When Forrest said he took 15 years I believe 14 of those years was spent making sure it wasn’t too easy. So he replaced the actual solutions to the clues with common names and words that are used in the Rockies over and over. This was his way of making sure you couldn’t guess the end clues and go right to the chest.

          (But you could be right and it’s there. No one knows but Fenn.)

    • Harry Flashman spent several months on Madagascar as a personal guest of Queen Ranavalona.

      “She was quite mad, of course, and behaved like Messalina and Attila the Hun, either of whom would have taken one look at her and written The Times, protesting.”

      Good ol’ Flashy.


    • Donna, I think it’s very much a multipurpose tool. But I’m actually relieved that most only opted for the can opener and ignored the corkscrew…

  49. “What if” “I am ambivalent about the treasure being found. When it is discovered I hope it is by some deserving person who is emotionally involved and has been rewarded by the other mountain thrills that come with the chase. If it is not found for several hundred years that would be fine with me.” f

  50. E.C.
    and If i go in the mountains and see a Deer am I rewarded?
    or am I not part of nature myself?

    Thrill- noun
    1A sudden feeling of excitement and pleasure: “the thrill of jumping out of an airplane” or roller coaster ride.

  51. E.C. Ah…Marakesh…The Ochre City, The Spice Capitol of the World, often painted…
    Oh, sorry, you said Madagascar.
    Just read about it, but hasn’t sunk in yet!
    A very regal Island, 90% of the wildlife only exist on that island. That’s all I know.

    • @Donna – in my opinion, Marakesh is another proximity reference for Ceuta (etymology is “seven”) and Pillars of Hercules because of Strait of Gibraltar (“straight forward”).

      Madagascar is the cross-reference for where warm waters halt. The frogs, La Buse, tangena, connect to Ramona Falls by way of Ranomafana Haute, Matsiatra, where Rano mafana translated from Malagasy is “warm waters” + haute. Rano mafana is a homonym for Ramona Falls.

      Not sure if I’ve made this clear or if I’m misinterpreting your post.

  52. In geometry, the tangent line (or simply tangent) to a plane curve at a given point is the straight line that “just touches” the curve at that point. Leibniz defined it as the line through a pair of infinitely close points on the curve.

    Obtuse; 1 lacking sharpness of edge or point <obtuse scissors designed so that young users will not cut themselves.

    Meek= Greek for a war horse that was trained to obey …

  53. I believe voxpops has a good point. I am relatively new to commenting on this blog, but from everything I have read and heard, Forrest continues to tell us EVERYTHING we need to find the treasure is in the poem. I think there are some folks that have become frustrated, and will try to make connections to anything they can in order to make progress…but all they are doing is clouding up their own vision…IMO…read the poem…memorize it. recite it in your head…Forrest is smart…but he is human just like you and me…you are giving the man too much credit…it is right there for all to see… if you just use your imagination and your eyes…Of course, I don’t know the exact location of the treasure either…the blaze eludes me…But I believe that is the only clue that cannot be solved from the comfort of your living room….you must go find the blaze so you know where to start. But time will tell….in my opinion and in no way disrespectful of anyone elses efforts.

    • David, who is “relatively new to commenting on this blog” so how much time have you invested in decoding the clues?
      I happened to catch the episode of ‘Expedition Unknown’ (travel channel) where the host Josh Gates goes looking for Fenn’s treasure with 3 separate searchers, and everyone just keeps heading out on a whim/ one or two clues max
      It’s an hour long episode, Fenn does a quick interview at the beginning, probably the best part is you realize there’s a lot of us ‘Crazy’ fanatics out there with that poem running through our heads.
      Sure it’s fun, the excitement and all, but a bit disappointing after you’ve driven 2000 miles.

    • Well Well David,
      Welcome to your nightmare. Try not to show your enthusiasm to soon. But your comment about FF “being a human just like us” is really way off. Not everyone thinks the same. Every once in a while a Genius appears, and I a long with a lot of others have put FF into that category. I call it ” The Einstein Effect”. That said it should help you out a little bit as you continue your journey thru FF’s Poem.
      One more thing, “DO NOT” start by trying to find the blaze. A Blaze can be a number of things, tree markings, trails, carvings,and these are just the beginning of a long list of what a Blaze can be. START AT THE BEGINNING OF THE POEM, and don’t deviate from it. Forrest spent a lot of time on this to make sure that there is NO short cut ways….IMHO
      Best of luck and stay safe out there

  54. I applaud your frankness, David. I do however, hope you might understand that there are many who would trade the “comfort of their living room” in a New York minute to get our boots on the ground!

    Consider yourself a fortunate person, my friend.


  55. By my calculation, the shortest distance from Calcutta to searchable areas of the Rocky Mountains is 9,500 or so miles. The longest distance is around 10,500. That means if someone was standing in Calcutta and guessed Clue #2 from there, they got 9,500 miles correct out of 10,500 total.

    Even the Little Girl In India is at least 90.48% correct.

      • I had to look it up again because I used Google.

        So, first try, I did directions from Calcutta to different places in the Rockies. They didn’t like that. So then I did distance from Calcutta to NY, then added distance from NY to different Rockies places… I think I had Denver as the shortest, more or less, and up near Canada as the farthest.

        So she took a flight into NY, drove the rest of the way.

        • That’s is how I had it figured also. It is nice to be able to check your work off of somebody else’s. Thanks.

          • Should probably mention: Her percentage of correctness increases with distance. So if she was on the Moon and guessed Clue #2, she’s practically 100% correct (99.57%).

          • “Should probably mention: Her percentage of correctness increases with distance. So if she was on the Moon and guessed Clue #2, she’s practically 100% correct (99.57%).”

            So if I have applied this statement correctly it would place you in the group that does not believe WWH is the first clue?

          • Clue #2 is referencing his statement that she couldn’t get past the first two clues. So that’s all she could guess.

  56. I could be wrong….but I’m pretty sure the statement in the middle of page 14 is the dirt/Caliph statement/question.

    Non-fiction is more than average true. Fiction is less than average. But “average” with people isn’t 50%…it’s a “C” I.e. 75%. A “B” is ‘better than average’ at 85%. You need at least a “B” to be considered non-fiction. The “middle” of the page is the “75% C level” or the Caliph quote about relativity. Einstein himself quotes at the bottom.
    It’s all relative.
    So what would you think if someone called you dirt?
    Have you ever looked up hore? (Sic) and whore? Please choose your ‘dear’ ‘friends’ more wisely when getting on planes.

    Somehow, with this scrapbook, I think F was maybe making more of a social commentary. Everything is relative, and for people to understand eachother you need to be on their level. Whether working, and getting your hands dirty….or just being a hore….is all a matter of semantics. (Unless we go into stool pigeons…but I’ll save that for another time)

    If you do take the time to go to etymonline.com and look up both definitions…with and without the “w”…. One may be ‘shocked’ to realize that Shakespeare really DID have it right all along! (And apparently thermodynamics as well haha)

    “I’ve got 99 problems and a “B” ain’t one 🙂 ”

    Hope my random babble will help at least one of you

    No codes about it!

    Sing-HO! For Scrapbook 155!!

    • Thank you, Jamie Jones! I’ve been wanting a connection like the one you offered up. Now, I believe that I can be more effable 🙂

    • Actually, I see the question ” How else can a person write a book ?”
      Perhaps he used the” create a mind map” method? Just a thought.

      • I don’t know- I guess anyone can be a magician. I saw a horrible one once at band camp in, like, 2nd grade in New Years. Sure he could do tricks and illusions…but Hudini was a whole different sort. He built his own traps. Out. Of. Other. Peoples. Traps. And on top of it people then paid to see him escape them. What’s impressive about him wasn’t the show….it was realizing the complexity involved of the catch 22. He performed with such elegance people didn’t even know what they were watching. You can’t buy elegance like that. Wish I’d been around to see it. Life’s a catch 22 I guess, then you fly. ‘Who wants a bunch of deaf people chasing you around all the time waving gang signs in your face all day anyhow?” Not me. I’d rather lay in the sun. F was write. That J.D. Guy was a pretty smart dude.

          • “Annnnd my 27 Ft. Hail Mary pass is….NOT denied?!!?! Holy F**kers!!” Lucky Me!

            P.S. Thanks

    • more footprints in the sand…. look up horehound… Etymology
      The Oxford English Dictionary derives the word from two Old English forms: “hoar” (“white,” “light-colored,” as in “hoarfrost”) and “hune” a word of unknown origin designating a class of herbs or plants. The second element was altered by folk etymology.
      And …. maybe wise to dress like the hound, so wear your white camos.

      • I’m not sure I understand the logic in this tangent (?) the thought was to figure out what Forrest might be getting at and the line at the 75% C-level of the page was Dirt and Calpih. So I had looked up ‘dirt’ and ‘caliph’ and that was the point they intersected. I don’t own the Oxford dictionary but would be really interested if dirt/caliph also mean white/plant (?) Is that what you are saying? Could you elaborate? Or are you just making word play on burning white sage? I hope I didn’t offend you by saying hore? The point was only that everything’s relative…”to the dirt I am cailiph/to caliph..” It’s all relative, unless you were on the same level…aka “to the hore I am dirt, to the dirt I am a whore” like whatever- it’s all slinging mud, and and second graders been through it before, at least I certainly have, and it seems that F most likely has as well as he built a castle out of the mud that was slung at him aka “come and see me shiny castle built upon the sand” I think that’s a pretty elegant “escape”, he has such finesse with the things that are important to him. The escaping (parachute jump that got him out of veitnam) the “trap” (landing) and the “plane” “deer friend” (Frank Waters= Frank and open= Warm Waters/Man who Killed a Deer) F-27 aka Fokker plane were a reference to a certain movie where a certain boy takes a pie as his ‘hore’…I assume you didn’t understand if you didn’t see the movie but don’t worry I promise I’m not calling F a whore. They are all just aviation references. I was glad to see another pilot understand. I Cant seem to make make “white” “plant” and “hound” fit in the same way, but am beyond intrigued if you have found even a totally seperate tangent way would you please share? I feel 99% certain on that part of the page, but that was all I could come up with. And thanks in advance!

        • Jamie, My point was only that the etymology of hore is apparently disputable…. It can mean dirt, or it can mean white — shifting sands of meanings. I included hound because it was half the compound word, and reminded me of the fox/hound statement. So if it is wise to dress like the hound (camouflage) , hore would indicate white camouflage (for concealment in snow perhaps). Just a weak throw-away thought.

          My etymology info was copied from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marrubium_vulgare

          I do think IMP LIT shows us an outline of ff’s TTOTC memoirs, and understanding it may be important for understanding his thinking process.

          I thought the 3 novels represented his 3 life stages in TTOTC… boyhood, military years, Santa Fe years. That was confirmed for me when I figured out why he purposely substituted the Farewell to Arms plot for the Bells Toll plot. (Wrong war, wrong place, like the Viet Nam war was wrong).

          That wonderful Caliph-to-Dirt reference supports Kismet’s theme, all it’s characters have quickly changing fortunes … usually due to fate/luck …. (Like poker, or like finding a treasure chest in the wilderness.)

          Read IMP LIT again and see if you don’t see an outline…. the outline may not inform the poem…. but helps me to understand the man.

        • oh nevermind, I figured it out ! OS2 HA! I get it now!!
          “White” “hounds”
          And “Herbs”

          They DO Intersect at a point! Right where Single White Female meets Skyrim! Sounds intense from what I understand from the fans…

          Drat. I’m in the middle of a 22 part marathon of all my personal favorite thrillers right now, but maybe I’ll put one of them em on next (they are two diff. Movies right?) Which ones more likely to be super scary…I don’t have too much time for ghosts…I’d be so late for work I might forget to pull the little white towel off my head. Nobody would even know if I was yogi bear chasing a picnic basket or a picnic basket running from yogi!! Talk about an exhausting lunch hour! Maybe I’ll just relax instead and go back to licking this lead based paint of the handrail. I swear, no matter how many years I watch it never seems to dry. It’s like counting sheep. Or worse…cheese. Oh my, look at the time, that reminds me I’m early for my midnight snack and I promised myself only tonight to break my strict diet early with A slice of orange cheese. It’s a GREAT diet though…which TANGENTALLY cuts at LEAST 85 calories per serving by just ‘licking’ the walls instead of actually eating a whole coat.

          Dang it! OFF TOPIC AGAIN! Please forgive me Goofy. I’ll be very careful to stay on topic and out of the soup kitchen going forward.

          • On Topic:
            The only outlines that jumped out to me in that chapter were blue and gold, I think they were drawn in India Ink from the quills of aincient wolverines…but I may have had too much paint tonight. I woulda sworn it was a map though.

    • Jamie,
      You said a mouth full. “You have to be on their level”. I had to study Einstein in school and I could never put down the books that I have about him. Just like f, Einstein didn’t finish school either. But they are so closely related in many ways. That is why I look at this Poem as though Einstein wrote it and have been working on it that way since. The results are compelling, to say the least.

  57. After reading F’s note, and the comments of other searchers…
    (by the way Seeker, your quotes about clues and hints are awesome!)…
    …I decided to check my data points, and discovered that I had “stretched” a “tangent.” (At the very least, I had inadvertently tweaked a line.)
    No wonder I didn’t get the photos that I had hoped to shoot last week!
    Back, more precisely this time, to the maps.
    Safe searching, everybody!
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  58. Did Jenny Kile send this one over? Seems misplaced?

    No way is this directed toward someone’s specific comment… That wouldn’t be very ‘f’ of him.

    He was very careful not to use the word “correct”. Instead he used “right”.

    This whole tangent thing triggered a memory of “great circle routes”…didn’t he say something about this in a past SB or one of the books? Anybody? Seeker?

  59. Am I the only person who believes that “tarry scant” is not talking about lingering briefly? There is no indication that you can actually take the chest until you “tarry scant with marvel gaze”

    • Yes and no Puzzled… at least the way I see it. Linger long enough to see what it is to be known… the go get the chest.

      “Is the blaze a single object? in a word yes.”

      Question is what else is at the blaze? Are we marveling over the chest or does that still need to be fetched?
      I think your right though… there is more to do. [ If i read your post correctly]

        • That’s find frank, it could just be that. How do you explain;

          So hear me all and listen good you’re effort will be worth the cold. If you are brave and in the wood I give you title to the gold.

          • seeker- to me title to the gold means its hid or its there north of in the wood jmo

          • the chest is hid north of in the wood and if you’ve been wise and found the blaze look quickly down your quest to cease just take the chest and go in peace imo

    • Don’t forget the “But” that starts off the line.

      A unique interpretation might be:

      “Nevertheless, look with astonishment somewhere near the Tarry Scant.” (sic)

      This interpretation requires a unique definition of “Tarry scant”

      One I have mentioned a time or two on this blog.

      Good luck to all searchers and STAY SAFE


    • Definitely no Puzzled. I believe it to be both directions and descriptions of whatever it is that we need to figure out, just like a number of the other clues.

    • I interpret it as being an invitation to admire Mr. Fenn’s handiwork and/or natural markings/features on the blaze. Markings/features that correspond to some of his stories. IMO, of course.

  60. so hear me all and listen good – the chest is hid north of in the wood- and if you’ve been wise and found the place look quickly down your quest cease- just take the chest and go in peace imo

      • “Take the chest and go in peace” May be the last action to take, but that doesn’t mean the last two stanzas don’t hold valuable information-hints. If you discount the last two stanzas, I don’t believe you can solve the poem.

        • puzzled- imo – when you get to take the chest and go in peace the poem has already been solved imo – so why it – ( the chest by now the chest has already been found ) the same goes with ( hear me all ) imo the meaning of the last 2 stanzas come before the chest has been found and yes they do give valuable information that helps you get to the end this is just my opinion you take it from here

          • Yes Frank- that is exactly what I’m saying. Without understanding the last two stanzas, it is not possible to arrive at “take the chest and go in peace”

      • timothy- imo to me means don’t be afraid (brave) to go in the wood – your efforts will be worth to go north (cold) of in the wood

      • Frank
        Sounds reasonable but aren’t you saying to change the stanza’s around to fit the TC so it would be found after f says, for all to listen good? What happened to don’t mess with the poem. This is the whole thing I’ve been saying, FF says don’t mess with the poem follow it consecutively and it will lead you to the TC. But people are saying on the blogs that wwwh isn’t the beginning. But it seems like everyone is finally looking at the 1st stanza. To me that is the beginning.

        • timothy – let me see if I can explain it to you.if you found the chest and went in peace – so why is it that he must go and leave his trove for all to seek- when you already have the chest -the same goes with hear me all and listen good – your efforts will be worth the cold- if you are brave and in the wood ill give you title to the gold -to me its already pas tens so in my opinion the – if you been wise and found the blaze look quickly down your quest to cease just take the chest and go in peace should be the last stanza imo – to me if you change things around – nothing changes the meaning stays the same im not saying that im right but that’s how I see things —- frank

        • Timothy- I don’t think it is necessary to change the stanzas around. Like FF said, “don’t mess with ‘the’ poem”. It is only important to UNDERSTAND the 5th and 6th stanzas, not to move them around. I believe that the information in the 5th and 6th stanzas is “sort of” a continuation of stanza 1. But, that doesn’t mean move the stanzas around. Just understand them. I’m strongly convinced that I understand stanza 1, 5, and 6 and without them I don’t see how it is possible to find the TC. If there is anyone who still believes they don’t need stanza 5 or 6, you might want to figure out what you are missing.

          • puzzled – thanks for the help – what you said is what is what I tried to say – and yes every stanza is needed to solve the poem imo like you said and I didn’t mean to really say move things around just work with the poem and understand it again thanks

          • OK Puzzled,
            I now understand what it is you are saying. I do not think about each stanza as a individual clue unless I don’t realize that I am. I broke each stanza apart and studied each one vigorously, after I had answers for each one, I put it on a separate piece of paper and didn’t bother with it until I had answers for all 6 stanza’s written out. Then I took my answers for the stanza’s and went through the books and finished each answer as much as could be said for the answers. After that I pulled out my maps and started working things out with what I had. Now I have a answers that where compiled from the Poem itself. My solve is complete, I feel better than ever with the solve that I have waiting for me to use it. At this time I am working in a full proof plan to be able to use or get to at a later time.

          • Timothy- Sounds like you are ready for a search. Any idea when you might be heading out?

            In case it sounded like I thought of each stanza as a clue, just want to clarify that is not what I am saying or thinking. I just think that stanza 1, 5, 6 work differently in describing the location of the TC than stanzas 2, 3, 4.

            I also think that I am not using the book the way some people would. I notice there are people completing their solves based on details given in the book. I see people searching places mentioned in the book. I don’t think the details in the book matter as much as the “ideas”. I believe the “hints” in the book are abstract; more like an idea than a detail.

            Here is one example of a “hint” that I think I see in the book. FF talked about Skippy landing his plane near Hebgen Lake. I know some folks are searching that area and I hope one of them finds the treasure there because I just want someone to find the treasure anywhere. But I don’t think the hint is a place mentioned in the book. I think something was said in this story that could be a “hint”. I notice that it is the only place in the book that an altitude is mentioned. Basically, because altitudes are not mentioned anyplace else, I have to ask myself, “why did FF mention an altitude here?”. Ok, so altitudes are important to airplanes, but he could just as easily told the story without mentioning an altitude. Obviously we know that FF has told us the TC is above 5,000 feet and (can’t recall the higher altitude-10,000?). So of course we are going to take note of an altitude. We should have taken note anyway even without FF’s mention of the altitude of the treasure, just because altitude didn’t get mentioned in another place in the book. So what is the mention of the altitude trying to say? I think it is just saying, “pay attention here. Something in this story is important”. So what in the story is important? I’m sure I know, but it is (IMO) not the location of Hebgen Lake. I think the “hints” are very abstract ideas and not direct statements.

  61. as I have gone quickly down in there – and with my treasures bold – I can keep my secrets where – and hint of riches in a hole imo

    • I think if I hear you right Frank your saying combine alone in there with quickly down to get down vertically and then in. Right, sorta like a den! The treasure is hidden. I think Diggin knows about them snake dens right Diggin ……:)

          • WOW Frank,
            REALLY?? Take a look at any of the 4 states and you will find vipers everywhere you go. Their just like spiders, you don’t see them until it’s to late and , well then I think you already know. Timber rattlers and regular rattlers are the one’s that can be next to you before you even realize it.. You might want to look those up and see how to handle yourself if you run up on them. It’s real easy if your talking to someone or just looking to far ahead of yourself. You do know that theere is Black Widow spiders and scorpions that can be just as much danger to you if bitten or stung,
            Be “very” safe out there and best of luck

  62. timothy – thanks for the advice – but there is something about snakes that I just cant stand I cant even look at them in a picture I will try to be safe and I hope the same for you too with the best of luck thanks frank

  63. Earth changes over the years, Trees grow and are cut down, Fires pass threw. One of the key issues in the clue is the definition of ” the blaze”
    I do not expect Forrest to provide any clue as to “what” the Blaze is, nor am i asking that.
    If the “Blaze” is man made or man altered It may not be there in 10-1000 years nor may it even be there now.
    If the “Blaze” is a natural item like a “Aspen” tree grove- Even that changes during the course of a year (Forrest’s own trees died)
    If the “Blaze” is a Rock structure or out cropping that can be mined or unknowingly “relocated” by someone making a Firepit.
    Even large stone man made creations are destroyed over time by either accident or on-purpose. Look at whats happened in Palmira, Syria/
    A Lot happens over even one Winter.

    What I am asking is does “he” know the clue is still valid over the years since it was created or placed by him.
    Or has enough time passed that the “clues” are meaningless and that the only way it will be found is by total accident?

    • Phil, I don’t think anything about finding the blaze will be accidental, nor do I believe that time will have much effect upon it. This is my opinion, of course.

  64. Phil
    I happen to agree with Voxpops. Your trying to set up incidents for the future of which no one can possibly predict. Maybe that’s the reason there’s still all of those other gold treasures existing. Things do happen and things do change but, just like the old treasure maps, that probably wouldn’t take you to the gold now anyway. But that doesn’t mean that in some cases the maps do not still exist and have some type of Blaze still out there. Forrest is just like that in the sense that he is asking us to find a specific item. If it changes over time that is something that will have to be dealt with at that time, not now.

    • I agree with Phil & voxpops. I think that the blaze is there now and that too many people are too concerned with the blaze when they have not worked through the other clues yet. Why worry about future events when right now we can work through the clues. The poems says that if we are wise we will find the blaze. So Imo the solution is to work through all of the clues, hints, etc and the blaze will be found. None of us are likely to live through another 100 or 1000 years until the geography makes major changes. I believe that if nobody can solve the clues within the next few years, then this poem is not solvable. So I don’t think it matters that geography will change in 100 years. If we can’t find the TC now, nobody will ever find it. I think FF said it would become part of the ages.

      • I am going to reply and then go on a tangent.
        The key in the search is to determine from what is written how ff thinks. The clue about warm waters halt narrows down the designated search grid but as thousands of searchers have found over years that this clue alone is not enough.
        Home of brown helps but one must determine what is brown,a person, a physical location, an animal ?
        Paddle up your creek could be a physical creek or a metaphor?
        Now the tangent: in my opinion ff wants and needs this search to end in his lifetime, why ?? He is frustrated with all the ” nut cases” reading too much into this and the recent assumed death of a searcher as no treasure is worth loss of a life. He wants it to end and is stubborn enough to not be blatant about any further clues so he is more subtle and is also using assumed identitys here to direct the search in a proper direction and not leading off into a dangerous tangent. My last comment here is my qwery to those alter egos as to my concern about earth and human caused changes as in it was not buried but is it now buried Requiring use of a metal detector? Was the blaze a tree marking that is now a burnt stump. So without asking for a clue is he confident all is in order with the poam after this amount of time?

        • In a word, Yes.
          Also, we do have a lot of new names showing up. I”ve been here for more than 2 years and haven’t had so many newbies show up at once like this, so I probably feel like f is using false ID. Do you really think that FF is directing these blogs so that someone can end this?

          • Timothy, why don’t you ask Forrest or Dal. In the past Forrest has stated rather emphatically that he never posts under any name other than his own on the blogs. I asked that once and was shot down quickly…but, hey, maybe he will respond to you.

            Back to blazes. Logically, taking f’s statement “in a word yes.” referring to the blaze, to a final conclusion, in the simplest form yields: the blaze has to be 1. A letter or all letters in the word blaze; 2. A letter or all letters in the word yes; or 3. All of the above. I discussed how this might work at length a year ago. No plans to revisit and lay it out for others. Folks need to do their own research and arrive at their own conclusions.

          • I am interested to look up your previous comments on this subject 42. I will follow up and try to find your previous discussion. But, since you brought this up, I decided to go to my online anagram word solver and see what other words might be inside the word blaze. Didn’t come up with anything that looked interesting until I put in the word ‘blaise’ which sounds the same but has a different meaning. Then there was an anagram that was interesting. I am not suggesting that FF rappelled down a vertical cliff, but this anagram could apply here by suggesting that there is a vertical incline. See anagram below.

            anagram- abseil-
            a descent of a vertical cliff or wall
            To descend a steep or vertical drop using a rope with a mechanical friction device.

            Well, that is certainly an interesting anagram. Not saying it applies, but certainly interesting!

          • Scratch my last comment on “rainbow” being an anagram for “in a word”. I typed it in wrong. It is not rainbow!

          • Caviat to my blaze post: IMO, IMO…
            Forrest could also be using archaic versions and other tongue versions of any and all of those letters.

          • Timothy, I get the impression (but it’s only an impression) that Forrest would prefer this to be over soon, but he’s stated that he has only ever used two identities on this blog (Dal will know when and where Forrest said that). There are certainly hints in Forrest’s postings (if you know how to read them), IMO, but I sincerely believe that he would not use false ID or other methods to direct any particular searcher to Indulgence.

          • Yes, but I will not state here who I beleave he is. From my own admittedly limited reading here I can personally Id one I beleave is ff. My wife who has spent many hours probably can say more.

          • Hey Puzzled…
            Rainbow = Ow Brain, which is how my brain feels…:)

            But the end of Rainbow is “w”. or “double U” or “double Ω” ?

          • @Spallies- as soon as I posted that, I realized I had made an error on the anagram and so I posted a follow-up to retract my error. Apologies to all who read the post abt ‘rainbow’ being an anagram! clearly it is not.

  65. @Phil,

    Re: “So without asking for a clue is he confident all is in order with the poam after this amount of time?”

    — Apparently he was quite was quite content with the Poem some 3+ months ago…..” If I had it all to do over again the results would be the same, and I can’t think of anything I would change. I feel fortunate that my poem said exactly what I wanted it to say.”

      • Diggin gypsy, It was on Mysterious Writings. 2/14/16

        4Q) You have commented many times your chest of gold is hidden somewhere special to you. That the moment you thought about hiding the chest, you knew right where you were going to conceal it. I’m sure you have other places you consider special. Would you be willing to share some of these, and why you find them so?

        No other hiding place was ever seriously considered Jenny. There are places near where I grew up that are dear to me, just like everyone else. If I had it all to do over again the results would be the same, and I can’t think of anything I would change. I feel fortunate that my poem said exactly what I wanted it to say.

        • My concern is not that ff would do anything different but due to the ravages of time the physical clues have changed and does ff feel confident they still apply.
          Example only: the blaze is a mark on a cliff face the cliff collapsed last winter the blaze is now gone.
          Example 2: the chest was placed in water but physically visible from the blade, last winter storms filled the creek with mud.= No creek and now the chest is only detectable with a metal detector.

          • It’s the risk we all run, Phil, but I actually think you don’t need to worry.

      • Just a little deeper and sideways in that snakes den 🙂 ……… 🙂

        Maybe angle it some….. 🙂

        Was there a doorway?

    • locolobo
      FF is content to the point he doesn’t really care if it gets solved “ever”. He is very content. One would say the f is happy,
      happy I think f is euphoric….

      • FF is content, hmmm is that your opinion Timothy or are you speaking with Forrest?

        Please tell the crowd here how you have a direct line to Mr. Fenn. Just kidding with you:-)

        Euphoric: U – 4 I (eye) C (see)… Maybe the opening act for U-2

        • Morn 42,
          Can’t give out that info, I would get someone in trouble… (me). Something bothers me 42, F has said now and again for 51/2 years that if he wanted to he could go back and still get the T.C. If he were to change his mind. At What age do you think f would not be able to make that journey? He could do it at 79 and now he could do it at 85. Where ever it is it has to be so a 85 year old man could go and get it . Just a little something for everyone to start thinking about when working on their solves…..IMHO

          • Hello Timothy. You make a good point. I think we also need to remember who we’re talking about, too. I believe he’s a gentleman in very good condition and could possibly put some of us to shame, including myself. 🙂

            This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

  66. Howdy, folks! It’s been awhile since I’ve actively perused the blog. Just a heads up: I’ll be flying in to Santa Fe late on May 18th to embark on a hunt through Sunday. I’ll be making my way north, ultimately departing from Durango.

    If anyone would like to meet up and talk treasure, I’d be happy to oblige, schedule permitting. Cheers!

  67. What if we are reading this entire stanza incorrectly?
    “Begin it where warm waters halt
    And take it in the canyon down,
    Not far, but too far to walk.
    Put in below the home of Brown”

    What if we should read it this way (I’ve added a few words to help the meaning)

    You need to “begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down”
    Its “not far” but too far to walk”
    Make sure you “put in below the home of Brown”

    or in other words, put in below the home of Brown where you will start where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down. . .

    Put in below the home of brown could be a phrase clarifying where you are going to start the warm waters …

    Would this change any of your solves to help us figure out exactly which warm waters halt? Perhaps we just aren’t understanding the phrase correctly because I know that I have also been thinking you have to ‘warm waters, canyon down’, and then find ‘home of Brown’.

    I was helping one of my kids with an English assignment and was reminded that a phrase at the end of a sentence (stanza?) could clarify the first part of the sentence. Maybe we should all look at our solves and see if this could help us re-interpret them. Not saying this is correct. Just saying, it might be worth a look.

    • Begin it, below the home of Brown, where halted warm waters take it in the canyon down not far but too far to walk.

      home is: where you hang your hat
      home is: where the heart is
      home may not be the strict dictionary definition

      The Force is strong in this one, Ricky…..best to keep an eye on her!! 🙂 🙂

      Good Luck to Ya, Puzzled…..you have some interesting posts.

  68. We know that FF has said he uses words that are in the dictionary and some that aren’t. Have any of you found words like that in the poem?

    BOLD- “with my treasures bold”

    I wonder if this phrase might have a double meaning. Could “bold” actually mean “BOWLED”?

    While the word “bowled” is not in the dictionary, the word bowl is and it can be used to describe a land feature- “a natural formation or geographical region shaped like a bowl”

    So what if “I” went alone in there and “bowled” a land feature (created a bowled land feature) ?

    “I can keep my secrets where”

    If “I” can “bowl” a land feature, then “I” can also keep secrets “wear”
    (as in an area that has been worn)

    “Hint of riches new and old”
    In a worn land area, there would be hints of other time periods visible in the rock formations that have been worn away. FF likes hints of riches old. We know this because he collects them.

    Would love anyone to share what they feel this stanza says. This is what I think it says.

    • Puzzled, IMO your interpretation fits really well. Bowl shape is basin land form. Wear being an equivalent to a worn place could fit ‘found’ or old foundations from previous cultures. Kind of you to share it.

      • anna- there is actually much more to understand in this stanza. This is only a hint of what is there. Would love somebody else to share what they see.

        • Puzzled – third person singular

          My thoughts on the word “have” if it does not mean “halve”

          1st person – I have a friend
          2nd person – You have a friend
          3rd person – She has a friend



          I search
          you search
          he searches
          she searches
          it searches
          we search
          you search
          they search

          • Morn 23 Kachinas,
            quick question, How is “They search” singular? Doesn’t “They “imply more than 1?

          • Tim-
            I don’t know if this applies but folks often use they…even when referring to a single person if they don’t know the gender. If I can’t say he, or she, because I don’t know which gender, then I might use “they”.

      • @ Mike. I only added the additional words to help clarify my line of thinking about what the actual words mean. I’m not literally adding words to the poem. Also; many of us believe that we are to “listen” as FF has said to do, to hear the meaning of the poem. So if you LISTEN to the word BOLD, you can hear “bowled”. Or you can go on thinking that we are not supposed to listen and understand, and you can be stuck forever reading the poem over and over. (IMO)

    • Puzzled and anna,

      You’ve made some great observations. I hope that I can do them some justice.

      “Hint of Riches new and old” – Riches old… led me to The Fenn Cache. (Forrest wondered on his Sweet Fragrances Blog: “Why would anyone want two full jars of Cloves?” – He followed it with: “I hear my wife pulling into the garage so I need to hurry and get the wax. I wonder if she bought another bottle of cloves?” On another of his blogs he commented: “Broncos beat the cowboys by ‘three’ points.”

      There are ‘3’ complete crystal CLOVIS points included the Fenn Cache, a long with an early Stone Age tool shaped in a “Crescent.” *( I related this to the ‘crescent moon’ drawing in TTOTC: “The LUNATE Crescent.”)

      Insofar as a ” Bowl shape is basin land form” …..I related this to the following County, (Fremont).. in an area in Wyoming known as:


      TTOTC Map connections, IMHO, will individually lead to all four States, Montana, New Mexico, Colorado, and Wyoming in various ways,


      • SL- What is your WWWH? If you can’t connect the bowl to WWWH, then it can’t work. I appreciate the map link. Thanks.

    • @jan – unless you’re a Spanish jaguar factory and combining English words to make a Spanish one. So… yeah.

        • @jan – “As I” = asi. This translates in Spanish to “so”. I can build a case that Fenn is pointing to a location, where “so” is a shortened version of “South”.

          I’ve mentioned it here a few times that I believe the first stanza can be deciphered as “So. Cheyenne Cañon, Seven Falls”. Let me know if you need me to repost the translation logic.

          • E.C. Waters, I’m always interested in what you have to say. If you don’t mind re-posting the “translation logic”, I’d be happy to read it again.

          • @Puzzled – homonyms and synonyms and imagination with English and Spanish.

            As I = asi (So.)
            alone in = shy in (Cheyenne)
            bold = bowled = mortar = cannon (Cañon)
            secret = confidence = certitude = Ceuta to (Seven)
            hint = season (Falls)

            Offered as an example as a way to think, given Fenn’s Scrapbook 107.

            “Spanish Toy Factory” … Spanish for toy is jugar. Fenn calls out as special a gold jaguar claw on his necklace in his chest. I read this as Spanish is specially meaningful in the hunt.

          • Thank you for sharing some hints on your solve E.C.Waters. I am thinking it over and studying it a bit.

    • “As I walked through the park, the autumn leaves crunched softly under my feet”

      That sentence works, so FF sentence, “As I have gone alone in there, . . .I can keep my secrets WEAR” also works.

      But, I think you are right that you don’t start in stanza 1. Where do you start?

      “Put in below the home of Brown”, is where you “Begin it where warm waters halt. . .”

      If you try to begin in the canyon down and you don’t put in below the home of Brown, then you aren’t in the right place to take the canyon down. You might have a nice hike but you won’t come back with the TC.


    • Melville might beg to differ: “As for me, I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas, and land on barbarous coasts.”

  69. Ever wonder why FF carved frogs and dragonflies on his copper bells and jars that he buried? I wondered. Based on who “I” represents in the poem, now I’m sure I know. What a fascinating hint. IMO

      • Timothy is right. The bells are BRONZE- non-ferrous metal, meaning “they won’t rust or deteriorate”. I misstated the material. But my point was the dragonflies and frogs. If anyone knows why they were chosen, we should chat. I’m guessing most don’t know. It is more than frogs being FF’s specialty, “long legs and buggy eyes”.

        It wasn’t until I was looking this up in TTOTC to confirm the material the bells are made of, that I glanced again at pg 129. So interesting that the chest is a Romanesque Lock Box. I had forgotten that an antique scholar had said the chest may have once held a “Book of Days”. This is important on more than one level.

        And then pg 130. . . “the necklace. . . A frog with “a frog with bulbous eyes. . .”.

        Hmmm. . .

        • Just guessing regarding frogs and dragon flies, but some have suggested spirit totems. Frogs are symbolic of transformation, and adaptation.

          Thinking more out of the box…
          “Buggy eyes” could be wagon wheel hubs, headlights on a car. Long legs and buggy eyes may indicate horses. Bottom of horses hoof is called a frog.

          helicopter pilot;
          Think in aeronautical terms of drag.
          Forrest is an expert at planting raparian habitats with flora and insects. He’s been involved for years with stream conservation.

          My best educated guess is that the “root” or wood word “helio” synthesizes all of those concepts landing one close to the pin.

          • That’s not it.(imo) When you figure it out, let me know. Would love to talk to someone who knows.

          • @strawshadow
            Stuffing bobcats with short legs sounds strangely taxadermic.
            Butt you look rather fetching mounted on that fence! LOL

          • They are both aquatic and they “both” represent transformation.

          • Come on Rick. Almost anything type of mammal’s will have transformation to itself.

          • True. But, that doesn’t help in any way with the chase. They are a clue to the chase. “I” has been there. (imo)

          • @ Tim

            I am referring to a different transformation…
            Dragonflies play a variety of roles in the mythology of different Native American tribes. In the Hopi and Pueblo tribes, the dragonfly was considered a medicine animal, associated with healing and transformation, whose spirit was often called upon by medicine men and women.

          • Here is a little more info…notice the “number” of animal guides a person can have…

            A totem is a spirit being, sacred object, or symbol of a tribe, clan, family or individual. Native American tradition provides that each individual is connected with nine different animals that will accompany each person through life, acting as guides. Different animal guides, also called spirit guides and/or power animals, come in and out of our lives depending on the direction that we are headed and the tasks that need to be completed along our journey.

            Native beliefs further explain that a totem animal is one that is with you for life, both in the physical and spiritual world. Though people may identify with different animal guides throughout their lifetimes, it is this one totem animal that acts as the main guardian spirit.

          • No railroad ties Spoon. But now I’m curious how you arrived at that connection to dragon flies and frogs.

          • I suppose its artistic and clearly FF likes to fabricate them, but that isn’t the answer to the poem. Keep thinking. (imo)

        • “I knew exactly where to hide it where to hide the chest so it would be difficult to find but not impossible” for who? Superman or just an average Joe? A small child perhaps or a soccer mom. If nothing else f is consistent about not being consistent. Evasive maneuvers? Is that a sharp turn to the left approach?

          • I don’t think it will take Superman. Soccer mom could probably do it, but not a small child. I think the small child can get through at least the first stanza though.


    I’ve liked the marble story about FF making marbles during school to sell to the other kids. I have a question that maybe nobody but FF could answer. The question arises out of my discovery of what exactly that marble story was trying to tell us. I actually thought I knew from the beginning, but there is something more to it that I didn’t discover until I was working through advancing my “I” theory. That is when it hit me what was hidden in that story, and let me just say it was hidden well!

    Does anybody know if FF really made marbles as a boy? He is a good story teller and I’m sure it is possible that this story is completely true, but I am not sure. I’m curious now that I can see what was hidden in plain sight in this story.

    Does anybody know the answer to whether FF did make marbles as a boy?

  71. Hi Puzzled,

    I do not know if Forrest made Marbles, but it is a good story; however, if you will look up the hardness factors for the sandstone and agates (From: In Love With Yellowstone) you might find that it would take a looooooonnnnnnnng time to grind a Marble.

    On the other hand, it might do you well to study the picture at the bottom of page 33 – if you are in the right place you can recognize it.

    Best Regards,

    The Lone Aspen

    • Lone Aspen- I was pretty sure grinding marbles was not quite as easy as described. But, I think there is much valuable information in the marble story.

    • Lone Aspen, I know exactly what you are talking about. Also compare it to the picture on page 32. He added two extra boys for a very good reason.(IMO) . I’ve been in that place and I recognize it. Where are you from Lone Aspen? Lets talk.

          • A lot of times ink illustrators pencil in a drawing, then come back and erase the pencil when they are done inking it. Not saying it says anything about this illustration, but it’s the only one with really noticeable pre-ink marks.

            It doesn’t really mean much. I just like pretending things mean a lot when I discover them.

        • Hello Jeremy P. Thank you for your response. I greatly appreciate it. I could use my imagination and think it means something, too. When I draw, I tend to use pencil and then go over with something more permanent. Sometimes I erase, sometimes I don’t. How about you?

          • Yep, that’s how I do it as well. But I’ve seen some artists just draw freehand in ink as well. The real question is how does Allen Polt do it? 😉

  72. So those lucky enough to have a book, what is on Page 14? Specifically, he says the middle of page 14. I read a lot of comments here and virtually nothing mentioned about this portion of a very short SB. Thanks for the reply!

    • Hello LMN. In part, the middle paragraph begins to read as such:

      ‘So I started to figure things out. Einstein said, “Imagination is more important than knowledge,” and I had a lot of that, imagination I mean. Besides, non-fiction writers don’t have to be right but eighty-five percent of the time and everyone knows that. How else can a person write a book? I never thought I had to believe everything I said and if I had to look up a word I just wouldn’t use it. And because I’m so easily pleased, a lot of things are effortless for me. I had it all figured out.’

      There’s more to the page, but this is the middle section. Hope this helps.

  73. Why “I give you title to the gold? The TC contains more than gold? I don’t believe FF couldn’t come up with a rhyme using other words if he wanted to. So why “the gold”?

    • @Puzzled – I guess opinions vary, and I assume you’re asking to solicit ideas.

      I theorize that the beginning and end are related to piracy, where the end is in Strawberry Fields and the meaning is related to bootlegged music, pirated music in the early 70s, and the title of such is Alpha Omega having bundled gold records into 4 albums. The walked path of the poem in this theory and according to the poem directions given ends up looking like either Alpha Omega symbols, or Omega Omega symbols depending on one’s perspective.

      • My personal opinion is that he isn’t talking about the gold in the TC. I haven’t seen this topic discussed and just wondered if most people have given it any thought. Thought I’d stir up some discussion.

        • I felt that he just might possibly have a title to a gold claim inside the olive jar. Not a mine, but just land where maybe there’s some “tailings”(the birds long tail).

          He’s telling us there’s a title to the gold…most gold that I’m aware of doesn’t come with a title. There are many mining claims out there that have been owned for years and years and years and I felt one of the reasons he would know if it was taken was that he could easily see if the title was transferred due to there being a quit claim deed within the jar. Was it possible Donnie had a deed? Skippy? Concy?

          I looked up his grandfather who was in in Vaudville(Forrest mentions Vagabond), and he actually changed his last name. His first was Charles….so is he John Charles Whatever? Could there be a claim out there in his original name that Forrest never believed anyone would figure out? He does have a land patent for BLM land for up in West Yellowstone…….

          • Thank you for that information Stephanie. You may be right about a gold claim.

      • What about alpha, omega, epsilon as symbols? The poem takes you from start to finish, and back to get to the chest. What do you think?

  74. @Forrest –

    I think I broke my tangent stretcher .. My brain is sagging ..

    (giant sigh)

    After much deliberation .. much investigation .. reading and re-reading .. searching and looking .. mentally digging trenches in the library .. dialing up alternate words .. and definitions .. and Synonyms .. and anti-aircraft fire .. trying to re-configure what the Friendly Wise Forest has written ..

    It doesn’t help.

    .. Trying to reinterpret the poem .. trying to find fresh clues in the books .. running maps .. digging through the Internet .. trying to figure out from the first day at school how this “tangent” fits into the puzzle ..

    What piece in the box is missing? .. or broken? .. Or is it just plain hiding? .. Where does the tangent come into play? .. At what clue? ..

    What is the imperative word here? – “Doesn’t Help?” – “Stretch?” – or “Tangent?” –

    What kind of Tangent? — Up? Down? Left? Right? .. Wrong Idea? Wrong Trail? .. Stretched Too Far? – Stretched the wrong way? – Stretched at the wrong angle? .. Is something missing? .. Something that should be there, but isn’t? ..

    Or is something secreted that someone is not seeing? ..

    Brain photos suck. Need to see the real thing. Figure out what the real thing is ..

    I *think* Forrest is trying to say .. that he is telling the truth – or at least .. MORE than 85% .. maybe he IS a Non-Fiction Writer .. like 99% .. like a documentary .. an autobiography – a photo album or a Diary – of his life .. but also of the clues to the poem ..

    Maybe there’s such a thing as TOO MUCH imagination — maybe, once there, someone goes around in a great big oval, completely lost and can’t make the right connection between two clues that are staring them right in face ..

    Everyone’s already proven there are way too many ways to interpret the clues — too many choices to make — too many options .. maybe he or she is overwhelmed – and everything, in every direction .. looks like a clue ..

    I think someone is close .. I think they’re very close .. I think Forrest knows it .. and I think the person knows it – both beyond a shadow of a doubt .. but the person is .. lost .. confused .. can’t make heads or tails out of one of the clues .. maybe there are Multiple Choices – “Choose A” “Choose B” “Choose C” .. and none of them make sense .. Forrest interpreted the clues one way .. but this person is interpreting them another way ..

    This clue is a “help” – but an obscure one .. even to someone who’s been at the spot. It may be directed, but it’s written for everyone – and it still won’t make any sense – it won’t be understood – until you’re within 500 .. or 200 .. or maybe 10 feet .. of the Final Clue .. and even then, I bet it takes some serious brain power to decipher ..

    Forrest is not a stupid man. He probably has an IQ well above the stratosphere. The Treasure is very deliberately hidden .. and hidden very deliberately ..

    And I’ll bet my Indian Teepee .. it confuses everybody when they get there ..

    Que Brada

    • Brad Hartliep, the following is IMO…
      I am not lost or confused. A maybe on the heads or tails of one of the clues. Multiple choices, yes. Understood at a distance of 500′, 200′, 10’… Nope. Even at those distances you may not know it is near.
      My search has been pushed back 24 hours. Tentative Date/Time to be where I believe Indulgence awaits: 07-17-16 between 1000 hours and 1400 hours (10am-2pm). Tomorrow will be a day of preparation and Saturday will be a day of travel and preparing to PUT IN BELOW THE HOME OF BROWN. I will be friendly to any grizzlies that I may encounter and in return, I hope they will bestow friendship as well as a toothy smile. I don’t want to be a guest of honor at a Search Party.
      That last statement is to keep in line with this threads topic… Ants and Syns… Oops wrong tangent and thread, I must have gone off path some where.

    • This poem just keeps adding layers it is so confusing, but I think I’m beginning to understand I just hope I haven’t goofed to badly. I believe I have a Key and a word that is key. need to be at location, could be like looking down a gun sight or…

      • “This poem just keeps adding layers”
        How does the poem do that silenfly?
        Just peel the onion layers back & you will find more.
        Then you will begin to cry for no reason except for the fact that you are the one adding & peeling layers.
        There’s more than one way to stretch & peel an onion.
        Dys it.
        Where are you Dys?

  75. I was very careful not to say I needed to be correct only 85% of the time. Read it again, middle of page 14. It doesn’t help to stretch a tangent. f

    I think he means a T-6 tangent.

  76. MAY 2016

    I was very careful not to say I needed to be correct only 85% of the time. Read it again, middle of page 14. It doesn’t help to stretch a tangent. f
    600 thoughts on “Scrapbook One Hundred Fifty Five…”
    First I have to thank Mr. Fenn for this scrapbook. But no scraps here, this is huge.
    Almost 3 months and 600 (six HUNDRED posts), I have the feeling not many got the tangent.

    Tangent: OFF subject (not the math tangent)

    This is not about writing, fiction, non-fiction, it’s about boots on the ground,
    You know right on the trail, left on the trail (I prefer nigh), add it up, one round trip out and back.

    I took my trail map, named/numbered trails, did the math. No surprise 85% right(s), 15% left(s).
    Remember, it’s out and back.

    Other interesting stuff.

    A definition of obtuse:
    not able to think clearly or to understand what is obvious or simple mathematics.

    f: “if I tell you what the HOB is, you would go right to the treasure chest”.

    David here

  77. f:”if i tell you what the HOB is, you would go right to the treasure chest”

    do you remember, where you heard or read this?

  78. Thus, 84% is the key.

    How many dogs in the dog contest? 84

    How old was Forrest when he said he was too old to do x,y and z in the scrapbooks? 84

    Find more examples for sure.

    Or ask Wayne….

  79. So I started to FIGURE things out, Einstein said,”Imagination is more important than knowledge” and I had a LOT of that, imagination I mean. Besides NON- FICTION writers don’t have to be right but 85% of the time and everyone knows that. How else can a person write a book? ( Page 14 )

    Imagination is BETTER than knowledge.

    What you see above that has been capitalized is what I am going to capitalize on.
    FIGURE = numbers. He than states he has a LOT of imagination. He than goes into the number figures of 85% leaving 15%.

    He than added “better” in the place of “more important” making imagination BETTER than knowledge.

    So if you look at the big picture of the total paragraph on page 14, it seems obvious than he is telling us all that the solve is 85% imagination and 15% knowledge.

    To find out just do this: “The imagination/knowledge brain test = Imagination is better than knowledge”.

    Take a second look you’ll understand.

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