Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Fifteen

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Please click on the comment balloon below to contribute to the discussion of  Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Hunt. Please note that many topics have their own pages. Please scroll through the blog to see all the discussion pages. There are also stories, scrapbooks, searcher’s reports general information, tips from Forrest, a rumors blog and even email responses from Forrest. So please look around and if you want to make a comment please use the most appropriate page.

Thanks…

 

dal…

636 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Fifteen

  1. Treasure Island!
    An Owl!
    Imagination!
    Knowledge!

    Which of the above is ODD or could help bring and END to the Chase? 😯

  2. Forrest is on the 10pm news tonight (August 4th, 2016) on KRQE, Channel 13, CBS out of Albuquerque. I don’t know if they will post it on their website…It doesn’t look like they post the news…but you can watch it live at 10p on their website:
    http://krqe.com/live-streaming/

    • Can someone record it and put on Youtube? I’m East Coast… 1am then will be asleep 🙁

    • The show is on now, in the 8 o’clock hour Pacific. The teaser on their web site says “Forrest Fenn releases new clue”

      Yeah, I gotta a bridge for ya, but still riveted 😉

      • I retract that. The “teaser” was an old “trending” link.

        Oops. Sorry. Like I said, “new clue? doubt it”

    • It looks like they break-out some of their stories and post them on that same page. So maybe when Iron Will crawls out of bed in the morning the story will be there waiting for him.

      I suspect the topic will be a reply to Linda’s open letter to Forrest…

      • I’ve got a reply to that thing, I mean woman, ….only I felt dignifying it with a response was more generous then I was apt to offer.

      • Yep, I woke up. And to be honest… part of me wishes I had not. At work, so I could not check emails but finally saw it all, including the open letters. It’s my hope that one of us has the courage and genius to find that treasure soon, because I fear this is only the beginning of what is to come.
        For every human being that treks their path through life with hope and self conviction, there is an opposite and darkened soul who understands only disdain and disbelief. These souls know only how to hold others back, so that when the spotlight of failure shines upon them, they are not alone. I choose not to listen to those voices, and they are not welcome on my path. I made this promise to Forrest when I started the Chase almost two years ago in a poem (here for anyone who hasn’t read it)…

        http://dalneitzel.com/2014/05/23/poetry-page/#comment-62546

        For every hour that tics away on the clock, opportunities continue to live. They flourish even in the darkest hours of the night. It may be a dim light surrounded by a black abyss, but make no mistake… it is there. You just have to believe in yourself, and not allow hope to vacate your beating heart.

          • thanks twingey 😛 I was on my philosophical soapbox. It happens occasionally 😯

        • Ironwill, your 2014 poem is outstanding.

          (I no longer receive email updates from the blogs so hit and miss what I read.)

          If I can add sentiments…
          My heart breaks over loss of life (Randy) and believe every soul is sacred.
          I’m saddened his children will not enjoy his presence. That said, we ALL experience loss, not only Linda Bileu. In my opinion she appears in her statements to have chosen the bitterness trap, or hopes to make enough noise to get rich herself.

          **We are each responsible for our actions.**

          [Linda, if you read my comments please know that I’m an impartial bistander and grieve your family’s loss. I’m no longer search for the treasure and don’t hero worship Forrest as you believe.

          But truth has the ability to set one free from bitterness. The truth is that your exhusband chose to float a child’s toy through a remote dangerous river canyon, in the winter, ignoring the common sense of an adult, and Forrest’s warnings not to do so – a huge lapse in judgement on Randys part. I realize that facing and processing truth is difficult in the face of such great loss. Again, I’m sorry for your loss.

          • Advise: Enter life, highways, and treasure hunts at your Own Risk! And Rest in Peace dear Randy. Sorry you died.

        • Iron Will – I would comment over on the Poetry Page you directed us to,…but the comments are closed there. Thank you for the inspiring words. I couldn’t agree more with your thoughts about The Chase.

    • Hello Dal. Thank you for the link. I greatly appreciate it. It was about the Open Letter and I believe it was handled accordingly.

    • I agree PD. He handled Linda’s vitriolic accusations as the gentleman he truly is. There were no clues…but he did say that the treasure is real and still where he put it about six years ago 🙂

    • I type deaths in national park in my search page on google, and within .01seccond these popped up first… along with many more.

      The number of people who visit America’s national parks is staggering—the sites hosted a record-breaking 307.2 million visits in 2015. … [ one article ]

      Two recent deaths in Glacier National Park were caused by heart attacks — the No. 2 cause of deaths in the Park. All told, 260 people have died or are presumed to have died in the Park through 2013. That includes two homicide victims —
      The top-five causes of death in Glacier Park are drowning, heart attack, climbing, vehicle accident and falling while hiking. [second article].

      Bad things happen… drownings ~ heart attacks ~ climbing ~ falling… even homicide… What was Randy doing different than any of those other folks… Nothing different at all.
      These statistic are of one park… so we can imagine what the toll might be for all the park in the USA.

      I’m not going to add my opinion to what the ex-wife is attempting to do, I said all I’ll say on that matter. But I’ll add this…people die everyday, it a part of life we deal with, just like anything else… it’s as natural as being born.

  3. I clicked on the link and I did not see a SUBMARINE.

    Semper FI, Dal

    Windy City

        • The worst thing about being color deficient is not being able to join the Air Force. The best is not noticing…but always knowing. I am red/green color deficient.

      • jonsey1 – Sort of like that quote from Shakespeare’s “Henry V”,…right?:

        Once more unto the breach,

        dear Meanies!

        You’re advancing the wrong way!

        Retreat backwards!

        Get back there now!

        My kingdom for a horse!

        🙂

    • Thank you Sacha,
      the audio of Linda Bilyeu adds a lot if you were able to catch it “live”

      A lesson for us all, your on line rants are public and permanent. I hope Linda’s do not add to her existing woe,but this is a bad turn of the press for all involved, imo.

      • Well said Joseph. Nothing like a public permanent rant full of miscalculations and lies to document ones true colors for all to see. The good news is it puts a magnifying glass on Linda ultimately and the truth always comes out. I’m glad many more know about the chest 🙂 and am certain more still understand why Randy ran toward loe and the mountains and away from that pen wielding thing. He got to live while alive and I’m glad for that.

    • Hold the phone here. Look at the video from 1:31 to 1:39. Is that a VIDEO of the treasure?!?

      I’ve watched that 8 seconds 100 times now.

      Notice how the perspective changes, we haven’t seen that before. Watch the sides of the box. The shape, not just the size, changes as if the camera filming it moves in the room. If you look at the intersection of the left side of the box it changes in relation to the table on which it sits.

      The filming, if real video, is extremely smooth motion. It would take a pre-programmed 3D gimbal to film like that, or some serious image stabilization in post-production.

      The nuggets look flat, and that what leads me to believe that this is image manipulation of the still image we know so well. Computers taking a single frame and turning it into a 3D image with magic.

      But then there is dust that falls through the frame in the video, just a couple of glints, it took me a few times to catch it. Blow it up to full screen and you will see it.

      Why so much work for a puff piece? They put in heavy video manipulation for eight seconds of a two minute human interest story. Or we have never before seen video of the treasure.

      Thoughts?

      • good catch tomwhat

        after a quick search to compare this ?pseudo 3d? chest to stills, I could only find one still with everything in the chest and the big nuggets arranged like in the “vid?”

        BUT, there is a knot in the wood just behind the front left corner of the chest that is not present in the ?vid?; also the roughed-up wood grain beneath the front edge of the chest is missing

        I’m not one to make much of this, but it does seem strange

      • Tom-
        That technique is relatively standard fare these days. It is a software driven way to create a 3d appearance from a 2d still. It is often employed by documentarians like Ken Burns with historical photos. The image can be given perspective and depth and movement. The softening and flaring helps to disguise the artifacting and also gives it a dreamlike appearance.
        Here is a tutorial on achieving this effect using traditional animation tools but they also make specialized tools that can create the effect faster and simpler.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZYkFkK3Htw
        or this tutorial that illustrates an arc as well as zoom with the camera…all from a single still photo:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c51QUtgyeLQ

        Bottom line for me is that they used the same open chest photograph taken by a SF photographer that Forrest has been handing out for six years now…

        and by the way…that is a poor example of that technique but I guess it had the desired effect.

    • Crazy, and then she says save yourself and go play Pokemon go. I almost ran over a woman last night following her apple device around looking for metro pokies in traffic. Wake up Linda,

  4. MR. FENN HAD NO COMMET , AND WAS SORRY FOR HIS LOSS,
    BUT SAID THE CHEAST IS STILL OUT THERE !!

    • Was this you and what is the importance, relevance of the date 7-15-2000 and where did you get this date to relate to the treasure? “cowboy on September 15, 2014 at 1:14 am said:
      THERE IS A TIME AND PLACE TO SAY TO ALL I MUST SAY .
      NOT STATING WHERE AND WHAT STATE TO BE!
      THE TIME IS SOON TO BE FOUND MAYBE FOR ANY ONE OF SOUND AND MIND . SOME ONE ORE HAS THE KEY TO THE PUZZLE IT IS LOGIC THAT IS BOLD FORREST HAS SPOKEN THE TRUTH. AS I HAVE MEEK IN THE WOOD
      IM AM THE ONE WITH A VINAGER HAT AND WOOL GLOVE, AND STOOD ON A HORSE NEXT TO THE BOX, AS DONE I COULD FEEL A BIT OF POWER OF GOD’S THAT NO HUMAN WOULD EVER FEEL, NOW THAT I SELF REFLECT UPON THIS. I HAVE DONE MY HOMEWORK AND SOON TO BE.
      THE BRACELET WILL GO BACK TO HIM, WITH NO PAY DUE!
      FORREST WAS A LIVE MAN FOUND ASLEEP ON A LOG OF BROWN IN THE WOOD! AND GIVIN A MEDICNE BAG TO GET HOME! HE STAYED 2 DAY RING A BELL ! THAT WAS HEARD FROM THE CANYON DOWN BELOW,
      DATED HERE INTO 7-15-2000 . WE ALL MAKE MISTAKE’S IN LIFE AND THAT
      IS WHY WE DEAL OUR JOKER CARDS!”

        • Tone what down? If your ears are ringing I would recommend not being in such a loud place or get hearing protection it can cause hearing loss. If you need to leave I’m not stopping you. I figured since goofy was no help in saying cowboy hasn’t been on in a long time. I would just ask cowboy. Since there was a post by cowboy recently on this discussion.

          • Odin;

            If you are not aware – typing in ALL CAPS is considered YELLING on any blog- – – Just in case you didn’t know

            JDA

          • Odin: you posted the same garbage from Cowboy twice — *that* is what Jake is objecting to. Yes, you weren’t the one to type in all caps. But you chose to repost Cowboy’s all-cap remarks twice in the space of an hour, and that deserved a response. Why would pay any attention to someone who types in all caps?

          • Thank you Zap!
            That’s 2 strikes.
            I wonder when the 3rd will come out.
            Odin, you can always paste the URL from the comment by clicking on the date & copying the URL in the address bar & then paste it so others can check it out if interested.

          • Like I said I posted the reply to cowboy directly the second time. So that he will reply back on my post. I make two posts that are the same and then it’s fair game to haze the new guy. I thought we are discussing the 9 clues for this treasure hunt here. The repetition is plenty here. The date is important because that is part of my solve. I found it on my own with no knowledge of Cowboys post.

          • I forgot about that one Odin. I remember thinking we haven’t heard from him in a long time when he posted that. If you or anyone else wants to review his crazy posts go for it. But I don’t think we need to repost all of his comments, it’s hard enough to decipher Fenn’s comments, much less a crazy guy trying to stir the pot.

            Good hunting.

  5. I read the open letters and was taken back by them. Their letters are public and difficult to read. They just don’t know when to stop.

    • Sadly it wont stop until there’s no more media attention on the Randy story

  6. Why are those things on so late at least over here on the other side of the country

  7. I hear ya there eagles.
    I think she thinks Forrest is going to get the chest for her to show it’s not a hoax.
    Doesn’t work that way.

  8. And look there…..more talk of codeword Coffee. I forget since it was on the last odds and ends…but what was the name of the poofy ladies hairstyles that led to that? Something about foot pie or something? Lol

    • it must be muddy there… or covered with pine needles.

      I read someplace about making beer with pine tree tips instead of hops… or was it spruce?

      • It looks like there are recipes for both.

        Mud/wet has been a rather hot subject lately.

        • Black gold…Texas tea?…tarry scant…MOLASSES! And the pitch is thrown! This ’rounds’ on me…

          Old black water, keep on rollin’
          Mississippi moon, won’t you keep on shinin’ on me
          Yeah, keep on shinin’ your light
          Gonna make everything, pretty mama
          Gonna make everything all right
          And I ain’t got no worries
          ‘Cause I ain’t in no hurry at all…..

        • Jamie – And from the previous Odds n Ends thread (which closed just after you posted this):

          jonsey1 on August 3, 2016 at 9:07 am said:

          You think F ever slid down the Devil’s Slide in Montana? I tried in June but it wasn’t wet enough or dry enough. Haha. Look up the pictures if you can ins an awesome feature and surrounded with lots of thought provoking places depending how you get there but no matter how you think. Neat stuff!
          ———————————————————

          You knew this, right?:

          https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/haines1/iee1b.htm

          “During the period 1827 to 1833 American trappers are reported as having visited the Yellowstone region every year; [21] however, only the visit of Joseph L. Meek in 1829 can be documented. According to the reminiscence Mrs. Frances F. Victor obtained from the aged trapper about 1868, Joe was a novice of only 7 months experience with the firm of Smith, Jackson & Sublette when he approached the Yellowstone region from the north with a party led by William Sublette. They had crossed the mountains which lie between the West Fork of Gallatin River and the Yellowstone Valley and were resting their horses in the latter, near the Devils Slide, when they were suddenly attacked by a Blackfoot war party. Two men were killed and the trappers were scattered with the loss of most of their horses and equipment.”

          That’s certainly “no place for the meek”. 🙂

  9. It is very unfortunate that Randy’s family is going down this road. It makes me regret my donation on Sacha’s Go Fund Me page for the search/family. In addition, it illustrates how unappreciated all the efforts that were extended by the treasure hunting community were. I am saddened by this news story/open letter.

    • Please do not paint the “Family” with such a broad brush stroke. Linda, the Ex is the only one stirring up a ruckus.

      Of the two daughters – Carissa has published an Op-ed in favor of Forrest, and Michelle has been quiet, as she has been throughout this entire affair.

      JD

      • Before I get jumped on- – -Instead of an Op-Ed, it may have been a Blog entry. Either way, it supported Forrest.

        JD

    • Hello Snowman. I can understand how you feel and part of me wants to feel the same way. Perhaps we can look at it in a different light. We were helping “Randy” to help support his family while he was missing and in hopes the money would be used to help find him in return. That is where my heart will lie. We did it for Randy.

      • Thank you pdenver. I will also try to see it that way as well. Enough said, although my fingers want to type more…

  10. This is the X-wife, right? It appears she wants to only extend her time in the lime light at Randy’s expense. SAD….

  11. Oh I read ( which could be totally wrong) lol…..that he was married two times.

  12. Sorry to have been out-of-loop recently. Setting aside the unfortunate issues with Randy’s ex-wife, I am finally getting around to responding to E* and DPT from the previous, now-closed Odds & Ends regarding their convo about Axolotl Lake.

    Hi guyz. I have been there. Twice. Searched it good. Got wet. Lost a boot. Was tracked by a grizz. My take on it? For what it’s worth, not a likely place for the TC or FF’s bones to rest. The better part of the trail to the lake and the lake itself is surrounded by tall snags from a semi-recent wildfire (maybe within the last 10 – 15 years? not much undergrowth yet)…just not the type of place to “admire”. Saw no ledges, overhangs or grottoes, not to say there aren’t any, I just didn’t see any. Plus, I now think it was too far to walk from the nearest parking place as FF has said (about 2.4 miles one-way, uphill going in). Unless…. he got the FS to open the gate for him so he could drive in closer with his sedan, but that would only take him so far, not even to Timber Creek. Nope. Just not plausible in my book. But, go check it out for yourselves.

    However, the above description of the place does not rule out the possibility that it may be a metaphor for another physical location – or a link to it.

    Again, all in my opinion.

    I think decall and maybe Jake have approached this area from the other direction. Did either of them set sights on Axolotl? Like from the overlook or closer? I’d be very interested to know what they think.

      • melanie – And I meant that ff would “look quickly down” from that overlook’s “admire” = “high regard” spot where he sat on Lightning the horse (a little further down the trail from Axolotl Lake),…to see my “face” blaze and others down there. But if ff (or a Chaser who found all those “blazes” beforehand on Google earth) knew where they were going,…they would take the shorter route from the other trail head (about 3.5 miles, and less than 800ft in elevation gain).

        • Hi E*. yep, I know exactly where you’re talking about for that vantage point. I haven’t been to that spot. I haven’t been to your special spot, either, but I like the area. I wonder where DPT was going with that post?

          • melanie – I found a connection between the Axolotl and the Olmec Jade Mask (which I think is related to my “face”). That was good. 🙂

            Gosh it’s nice to be down here discussing things actually related to The Poem and finding the Bronze Chest,…isn’t it? Sometimes folks get off topic on this thread,…don’t they? Isn’t there a couple of pages elsewhere to discuss the topics about Randy???

          • dal started the topic about Randy. So you are telling him that he is posting in the wrong place. Your too much.

          • Dal – My apologies,…I just saw this post near the top of the thread,…and took it as a heads up about an ff interview.

            dal on August 4, 2016 at 8:01 pm said:

            Forrest is on the 10pm news tonight (August 4th, 2016) on KRQE, Channel 13, CBS out of Albuquerque. I don’t know if they will post it on their website…It doesn’t look like they post the news…but you can watch it live at 10p on their website:
            http://krqe.com/live-streaming/

            I didn’t read down further to clarify that we were supposed to have a discussion here on the Odds and Ends about Randy’s Ex-Wife:

            dal on August 4, 2016 at 8:42 pm said:

            It looks like they break-out some of their stories and post them on that same page. So maybe when Iron Will crawls out of bed in the morning the story will be there waiting for him.

            I suspect the topic will be a reply to Linda’s open letter to Forrest…

            But I still maintain that this entire discussion thread would have been better suited to the thread:

            “Linda writes to the press”

            So that if someone is searching for that topic,…it would be easier to find. I am pretty sure that is one of the directives that were given to us by Dal himself.

          • melanie – You wrote above:

            “The better part of the trail to the lake and the lake itself is surrounded by tall snags from a semi-recent wildfire (maybe within the last 10 – 15 years? not much undergrowth yet).”

            Thanks for your BOG read on the timing of that “blaze”,…I hypothesized with DPT that may be just that,…yet another directional “blaze” chosen by ff to lead Chasers to my search area (the long way,…so they could see the hillside “face” “blaze” from the “high regard” vantage point).

  13. Treasure hunting is loads of fun. I began delving into the poem only a week ago. I’ve solved it 8 tines now. I have slowly lost my mind. When the nurse brings more meds I intend to take a crack at the poem once again. Once I get out of here I intend to do some searching in Montana. Oh well, happy hunting all.

  14. I too am new to this search and I also have a number of matching locations!! In reading this page, I see you all having so much fun. Unless I’m reading incorrectly. I haven’t yet lifted my butt off this chair in search of the treasure but I will soon. I do intend on being the WEINER of the hunt! Just have to figure out which one of my matches looks most promising. Unless of course I come up with another location before sorting it all out.
    Seriously I believe the words to be straight forward without any complicated ig-pay atin-lay involved. Good luck to all of you and I really just wanted to let you all know that I am enjoying reading all of these comments. thanks

  15. Thank you! Have to tell you this: One of my chosen spots was near Columbia Falls. Can’t remember what first got me there, but while checking out the area, I googled Home of Brown at Columbia Falls Montana. Well, lo & behold there was a rental cabin there. The name of it is : Brown’s Cabin Home
    In continuing my now hottest thoughts ever (so I thought) while in the area, I come across another cabin and couldn’t believe what (I mean WHO) I saw standing on the balcony of that cabin! Mr Fenn himself – or so I thought. On further examination, I found it was someone else entirely. No jeans either. So I should have known better right off the bat. But hey – I’m only a beginner! Not yet as worldly as you all are!

    • You’re welcome, Shamag. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Looks like you’re doing a great job with your research. I don’t recall if anyone has thought of making a connection to that area. As far as the person not being Mr. Fenn because of no jeans…you’re spot on. Is there something in the poem that lead you to believe Columbia Falls is the place you needed to be or search? Trying to understand the poem is a lot of fun.

  16. Lots of Brown this and Brown that in Montana. And of course the Montana Browns!

    • Hello Lou Lee Belle. With this being said, have you found the meaning of “Put in below the home of Brown”? Do you believe it’s a name, fish, people, body of water, etc.?

  17. I have just started to look at this and spent a day reading as much as possible. Interesting quest. Does anyone ever share clues with someone for a promise?

  18. To all searchers and feather merchants,

    The Geezer Team’s approach to finding the treasure is based upon five assumptions, three regarding information. Forrest Fenn states that everything a searcher needs to know to find the treasure is in the poem. Thus, our first assumption is that the poem is everything, it is the first level of information and the most reliable, if used correctly. When in doubt (to paraphrase the great character For-rest B Fenn Adobe or is it For-rest B Fenn Anchovy) “Use the force, Luke” … er, “Use the poem, schmuck, use the poem!”

    Our second assumption is that another source of information is the clues that Fenn has given outside the poem, via media interviews. These clues are sometimes straightforward like “hidden above 5000 feet” but often are open to interpretation and less reliable than the poem itself. For example, in an interview where he is describing what it’s like standing where the treasure is hidden, Fenn mentions the smell of pinon pine nuts, among other things. He then tries to retract it. We think he realized it was a goof because pinon pine doesn’t grow north of Colorado thus eliminating Wyoming and Montana! Many others don’t believe that and are still searching in Yellowstone.

    Our third assumption is that a final source of information is documents like TTOTC and TFTW, scrap books on websites, etc. Fenn said these documents have subtle hints but since searchers have to glean hints from the writings and there is no way of knowing if something is important to the search, they are wide open to interpretation and the least reliable.

    Our fourth assumption, given by Fenn himself, is “DON’T MESS WITH MY POEM!” which means “DON’T MESS WITH HIS POEM, DUMB HEAD!” The final assumption is DON’T MESS WITH THE WORLD EITHER, DUMB HEAD! A good example of this is “the home of Brown.” Brown is capitalized which means it is a proper noun. Many searchers believe the poem is referring to brown trout. Under the rules of capitalization, the common species name of brown is not capitalized unless it begins a sentence, or is part of proper noun like The Brown Trout Restaurant. We believe Brown refers to a person, not brown trout, brown bears, or brown worms! If this doesn’t fit your theoretical solve, then maybe your solve is incorrect. You can’t change the world (in this example, the rules of capitalization) to fit your theoretical solve! And if you think Fenn made a mistake capitalizing Brown – think again, and again, and again until you’re not a DUMB HEAD! Note the use of “theoretical.” Except for Forrest Fenn’s, there are no solutions out there, they don’t exist. A solution is a solution only if it finds the treasure, and it hasn’t been found yet. At best there are plausable theoretical solutions and at worst fantasies, whims, crackpot ideas, and such!

    We are analyzing the poem on the idea of segments, what follows then is all IOMHO!. The first leg of the search begins with BIWWWH (stanza 2, line 1) defining point A) and then PIBTHOB (stanza 2, line 4) defining point B). Now we can say that we have defined segment (A – B). Why not expect the same for the next segment (B – C)? Fenn has said the treasure is not in close proximity to a human trail. So, if we’re hiking up a gulch from the bottom of a canyon as per TBNPUYC (stanza 3,line 3), what would draw us off that trail? The answer is in stanza 3, line 4 – “Just heavy loads and water high.” We think this means to look for large boulders and a water fall and/or tumbling creek with the water source being a lake, wetland, spring, etc. higher up. Once we find this area, we have defined segement (B – C) and now have to find point D), which is the blaze.

    Here’s a potential for getting stuck because we don’t know what in the blazes the blaze is! A most puzzling part of the poem to us is the statement “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,” (stanza 4, line 1). This line doesn’t seem like a clue at all because it tells us nothing about the blaze, which is key to finding the treasure!

    So, we believe the blaze is man-made because it is unwise to think that the “perfect” hide spot would have a natural blaze in just the right place (low probability) or that fenn could find a natural blaze and move it to the right place (low probability). Ergo, Fenn had to bring a blaze in and put it in just the right place. Being man-made it should be obvious such that you’ll know it when you see it, but we do have a hunch as to what it is. And, when you see it STOP, point D) is now found and we have segment (C – D) defined. The line LQD,YQTC (stanza 4, line 2) is problematic to us since “quickly” is hard to do for geezers! We believe what Fenn means is that when the blaze is spotted, searchers will have a tendency to move toward the blaze which will move them out of position for looking down and seeing something really important, so like we said, STOP. Now, what the heck does “look quickly down” mean? Does it mean look down at your feet, look back down the trail, look south, if the blaze is high up bring your gaze down to 90 degrees, etc.? Who cares, just try them all, you’ll know it when you see it! Everything we’ve laid (not layed) out so far has been from the poem and there’s three more clues to consider, AIHGAIT (stanza 1, line 1), YEWBWTC (stanza 6, line 2), and IYABAITW (stanza 6, line 3). AIHGAIT we believe is important and know why but we’re not yet sure about the other two. However, when Fenn says “So hear me all and listen good,” we pay attention!

    The above is not a theoretical solution it is a plan on how we are going to apply the poem once we have a starting point – BIWWWH (stanza 2 line 1). To determine the starting point we have used maps, and levels 2 and 3 sources, and have a hunch where to start. Now, we have to get out into the field with “hired legs” and the camera drone in toe. As per our plan we will formulate a theroretical solution and go forth with confidence and find the treasure.

    Your most humble servants,

    The Geezer Team, Dennis Bockhaut, member

    • To the Geezer Team –

      I agree with everything you said – up to the blaze. You said you thought the blaze was man made. Pretty darn good sleuthing on your part. I think there is one thing here – that might be considered…….why couldn’t you ole geezers be the ones to make the blaze?

      Then when you use your eyes to look quickly down – at your paper work – you discover something amazing. IMO

      • Hi inthechaseto. Been trying to respond to you at TTOTC re: Curry. How you mentioned it was there only spice left out of FFs scrapbook. I’ve been onto curry for a while as it relates to “rocky” and It….I’m thinking Tim Curry. Hasn’t helped me,but fascinating nonetheless.

    • Nice easy read Dennis,
      You still have a lot of questions unanswered though.
      Another problem I have is where is the word that is key?
      I would think considering it is key, it’s absolutely necessary to get the correct solve.

    • Geezer team,
      I like to suggest that you ask for a specific space, location for searcher to chat about this… there’s a lot of discussion that can be had here and it would be great later on to review and add thoughts from others about it. Without having to rummage through other postings.

      Just a thought … that is if Dal doesn’t mind.

      • Yes maybe under a heading called “Group Searches”. Interesting post this is more than “odds and ends” Nice thoughts Treasure Hunters!

    • Dennis and the Geezer Team – Firstly,…I do not appreciate being called a “DUMB HEAD”,…for thinking that a Brown trout (capitalized for emphasis or used as an abstract or personified noun (ie. “Nature”) or a Brown bear (See: My Grizz) for that matter,…are THE “home of Brown.

      Then you wrote:

      “So, we believe the blaze is man-made because it is unwise to think that the “perfect” hide spot would have a natural blaze in just the right place (low probability)….”

      Or….not. How about a Wise Owl Blaze glacial erratic that was moved into place,…in the perfect place to indicate a change of direction,…and that gives that direction by the way it is facing,…that was moved by a glacier,…long ago? Yes,…I think that would work. 😉

      And then this:

      “Use the force, Luke” … er, “Use the poem, schmuck, use the poem!”

      “We think he realized it was a goof”

      You were channeling Goofy there,…weren’t you?! As Yoda! I just KNEW it! You figured it out too!!! 🙂

  19. Hello pdenver, My thoughts on WWWH led me to believe the glacier area. Also lots of old and new as in fossils and old utensils, etc found there.

    • Hello Shamag. Glacier has been a good thought for WWWH and worth the cold. Hope you’ll be able to understand the rest of the puzzle and be able to enjoy your search soon.

  20. Dennis Bockhaut: I’m thinking you might rethink Pinion Nuts and ALL locations of Pinion Nuts. ff did say there was one thing he wished he hadn’t said. But – he also said that NO ONE has analyzed one amazing possibility. What would that amazing possibility be? Maybe that Pinion Nuts also grow in other locations?

    • Can anyone explain to me why there is a place called “Pinyon Terrace” near Mammoth Hot Springs; anyone been there?

        • Thanks PD, yes I am familiar with that article (I am affiliated with that organization 😉 )

          • Joseph – Great find! If THAT isn’t WWWH,…I don’t know what is!:

            “There are no active hot springs on this terrace now. However, hot gases escape through underground channels near the east edge of the terrace, and acid alteration is in progress there (near the vapor vent in southwest corner of area shown on pl. 1). Native sulfur (S) and gypsum (CaSO4•2H2O) are precipitated there as a result of fumarole activity.”

            Maybe we should revisit ff’s “pinyon” quote?:

            “If I was standing where the treasure chest is, I’d see trees, I’d see mountains, I’d see animals. I’d smell wonderful smells of pine needles, or pinyon nuts, sagebrush—and I know the treasure chest is wet.”

            “Well you’ve asked me a lot of questions and some of them—most of them I answered, a few I haven’t, but I’ve got to tell you—there’s one thing I told you I wish I had not.”

          • Hello Joseph. You’re welcome. Now you have me curious as to why you asked the question that you did, if you are aware of the article and that you’re affiliated with the organization. It would seem you would have possibly have known the answer for which you asked. 🙂

          • pd,
            I can find nothing on the flora of the terrace, and I have not been there (not sure I would recognize a pinyon anyway)

            E! Mammoth IS my wwwh. Oops. But anyone foolish enough to pay attention to my speculations already knows that. 😉

          • Joseph – He wrote “or pinyon nuts”,…so it could just be “smells of pine needles”:

            https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/images/688bunsen.jpg

            “Many trails into Yellowstone’s wilderness begin in the Mammoth Hot Springs area, including day hikes. Two adults and three children walk down a trail through sagebrush and wildflowers.”

            I think I see a “pine tree”,…follow THAT trail to the treasure! 🙂

          • Joseph – I mean a BUNSEN burner is kind of a “blaze” isn’t it? And so is a trail, IMO:

            http://www.trailguidesyellowstone.com/yellowstone_hikes/bunsen_peak_trail_yellowstone.php

            “The Bunsen Peak Trail with its trailhead just south of Mammoth is a steep 2.1 miles (3.4 km) to the summit. Bunsen Peak was named for the German chemist Robert Bunsen, the inventor of the Bunsen Burner and responsible for early work on volcanic geyser theories.”

            It was originally named “Observation Mountain”. Sounds like a place of “high regard” to me! 🙂

          • So Bunsen Peak isn’t named after Bunsen Honeydew (and his trusty assistant Beaker)? (grin)

      • Joseph-
        Why not Pinyon Terrace?…there is also a Yak Camp nearby and when I was there I saw no Yaks. Violet Creek is not purple. I looked along Cache Creek…just to make sure, but no Indulgence appeared and I am told that Old Faithful is becoming less and less dependable as time goes on.

        It is one of numerous benches in that area. The lovely trail to Snow Pass takes you up there.
        EC Waters mentioned Pinyon Terrace in his solution on this blog titled “The Case For Yellowstone”.
        http://dalneitzel.com/2016/03/16/case_for_yellowstone/

        • And I suppose Mr Smartypants you saw a moose at Moose Prairie? jus’ teasin’… I get the non sequitur naming

          I did note EC’s comment; his solution was too convoluted for my taste (no offense intended ED, on the contrary, good thinking).

          I firmly believe the correct solution will be a face palm, and could be conveyed quite concisely.

          thanks Dal for your tireless administration of this forum (same to Goofy Old Guy)

    • That he did it in “one afternoon” break that down…
      One after noon…. one night…

      Forrest knows who the flight surgeon is…

    • Awhile back I discovered that although rare, Pinion nuts can be found in Wyoming in the Southwest most corner of the State.

      If you would like a link for this info, don’t hesitate to let me know.

      SL

  21. USGS Logo Geological Survey Bulletin 1444 Geology and Thermal History of Mammoth Hot Springs
    AGE OF THE TRAVERTINE FORMATIONS AND HISTORY OF THERMAL ACTIVITY AT MAMMOTH HOT SPRINGS

    Perhaps the most outstanding characteristic of the hot springs at Mammoth is the rapidity of change. A hot spring may dry up at one location and a new spring begin flowing a short distance away within a few days. Also, a spring may have a large discharge one day, be completely dry the next day, and flow again the following week. Numerous detailed observations of rapid changes in thermal activity at Mammoth have been recorded by park naturalists and other observers through the years, but such detailed records are beyond the scope of this report. Instead, tables 5 and 6 and this section summarize the major changes in hot-spring activity that have been recorded since the Hayden Survey.

    Recorded history and temperatures of named thermal springs at Mammoth Hot Springs, 1870-1974 (table 5).
    table
    (click on image for a PDF version)

    Recorded history and temperatures of unnamed thermal springs at Mammoth Hot Springs, 1954-1974 (table 6).
    table
    (click on image for a PDF version)

    Terrace Mountain Travertine

    The top of Terrace Mountain is capped by 15 to as much as 75 m (Hayden, 1872; Allen and Day, 1935) of horizontally bedded, dense travertine (fig. 21) which, according to Hayden, may have precipitated from hot springs in the bottom of a lake. A small patch of travertine on the west side of Bunsen Peak (fig. 2) is probably contemporaneous with the Terrace Mountain travertine (Allen and Day, 1935). The Hoodoos and Silver Gate (figs. 2, 21) are part of a landslide deposit that is composed largely of travertine from Terrace Mountain.
    Terrace Mountain (on the skyline) and chaotic landslide blocks of Silver Gate (foreground) (fig. 21).

    Schlundt and Moore (1909) calculated that the travertine from Terrace Mountain was deposited about 20,000 years ago. Their age calculation, based on the rate of decomposition of the radioactive element radium, is not now regarded as accurate, because of numerous possible errors of which they were unaware at the time. A more recent age determination, based upon thorium-uranium isotope ratios, yielded a date of 63,000±9,000 years for travertine from Terrace Mountain (Rosholt, 1976). The latter date is in good agreement with the geologic evidence, in that Terrace Mountain is clearly older than the Pinedale glacial deposits (10,000-50,000 years ago) that mantle it (fig. 22). In any case, both lines of evidence point to the fact that the hot springs that deposited the travertine have been inactive for many thousands of years.
    Boulders on top of Terrace Mountain (fig. 22). Boulders were deposited by a glacier of Pinedale age. (Photograph courtesy of L. J. P. Muffler, U.S. Geological Survey.)

    Pinyon Terrace

    The remainder of the travertine deposits, which extend continuously from Pinyon Terrace to the Gardner River, as well as a few scattered outcrops found in Snow Pass and near the Sheepeater Canyon Bridge (fig. 2), are all younger than Pinedale age (Allen and Day, 1935). Young, horizontally bedded travertine deposited on top of Pinedale glacial deposits can be seen along part of the north-south tensional fracture near the east edge of Pinyon Terrace (a small section of the fracture is shown in the lower left corner of pl. 1).

    The only record of hot-spring activity on the densely forested Pinyon Terrace is a spring (with a temperature of 41.8°C in 1925) labeled simply Pinyon Terrace in Allen and Day’s (1935) table of hot-spring temperatures for Mammoth Hot Springs. They also mention “a few oozing springs” (presumably cold) but do not indicate the location of any of the springs.

    There are no active hot springs on this terrace now. However, hot gases escape through underground channels near the east edge of the terrace, and acid alteration is in progress there (near the vapor vent in southwest corner of area shown on pl. 1). Native sulfur (S) and gypsum (CaSO4•2H2O) are precipitated there as a result of fumarole activity. Vapor vents are quite common on the travertine terraces; however, acid-altered areas occur at only a few locations (Bargar and Muffler, 1975) where the hot vapors contain enough hydrogen sulfide to form gypsum and sulfur deposits.

    Old terraces between Hotel Terrace and the Gardner River

    The region of major hot-spring activity is between Pinyon Terrace and Hotel Terrace; the area between Hotel Terrace and the Gardner River has few thermal springs (pl. 1). One spring with a very large rate of discharge is the source of Hot River, which emerges from beneath an old, partly collapsed travertine ledge near the level of the Gardner River (fig. 23). The discharge channel is about 2.7 m wide and 0.6 m deep, and the stream flows for about 130 m before emptying into the river. Its underground route can be followed upstream for an additional 140 m through a series of collapse features (pl. 1), one of which (MHS—1) contains visible flowing water.
    Hot River (fig. 23). Hot carbonated spring water undercut the old horizontally bedded travertine deposits until individual blocks collapsed under their own weight. Direction of flow is toward viewer.

    The spring which feeds Hot River has the greatest discharge of any hot spring in Yellowstone National Park. Several discharge measurements reported by Allen and Day (1935) show that the flow of Hot River ranges from about 33 to 40 m3/min, with the average flow being slightly greater than 38 m3/min. A more recent measurement by R. O. Fournier and D. E. White (U.S. Geol. Survey, 1967) is about 41 m3/min. Much of the flow of this thermal spring probably consists of water that previously issued from other hot springs and trickled down into underground channels feeding Hot River. Allen and Day also suggest that the variation in temperature of Hot River at different times of the year may be caused by dilution with cold meteoric water.

    Derivation of the name Hot River is uncertain; however, H. M. Majors III (unpub. data, 1962) indicates that the name probably originated with a group of U.S. Geological Survey scientists, headed by Arnold Hague, who studied the geology of Yellowstone Park in the 1880’s. Hot River has also been called “Boiling River” (H. M. Majors III, unpub. data, 1962), “Warm-Stream Creek,” and “Chestnutville” (Haines, 1974).5

    5According to Majors (unpub. data, 1962), many of the thermal features at Mammoth were named by members of the Hague expedition or by early visitors and residents of the area, and several of the hot springs and terraces have borne more than one name, as did Hot River.

    Early maps of Mammoth Hot Springs (Hayden, 1872; 1883) show three or four hot springs (temperatures less than 49°C) near the level of the Gardner River 100 m or so upstream from Hot River and two thermal spring areas (temperatures about 60°C) between the base of Hotel Terrace and the road to Gardiner. The only subsequent reference to hot-spring activity at either location was Majors’ (unpub. data, 1962) description of a spring on the river bank about 100 m above Hot River. In May 1974, one small spring (MHS—2) was found near the location Majors described, but there were only a few vapor vents between Hotel Terrace and the road to Gardiner (pl. 1).

    Hotel Terrace

    The only recognizable hot-spring orifice on Hotel Terrace is the defunct fissure ridge on the east edge of the terrace (pl. 1). No hot-spring activity has ever been recorded on this terrace, but two vapor vents can often be seen on cold mornings.

    An age determination by Prof. Herman Schlundt (reported in Bauer, 1933) indicates that the travertine of Hotel Terrace was deposited about 3,200 years ago. This age and the one for Liberty Cap are not regarded as numerically accurate but are probably of the right order of magnitude.

    Hymen Terrace

    Hymen Terrace is a small inactive terrace at the southwest edge of Hotel Terrace. An extinct hot-spring cone, about 14 m high and 6 m in diameter at the base (Allen and Day, 1935; H. M. Majors III, unpub. data, 1962), dominates the setting of Hymen Terrace (fig. 8). Indeed, this long-dead hot-spring orifice, named Liberty Cap by the 1871 Hayden expedition (Hayden, 1872), reigns supreme over the entire Mammoth Hot Springs.6

    6According to Schlundt’s age dating, Liberty Cap was formed about 2,500 years ago (reported in Bauer, 1933).

    Hymen Springs, inactive since about 1936 (C. M. Bauer, unpub. data, 1946) was evidently a major attraction on Hymen Terrace from the time of the earliest recorded observation in 1870 (Peale, 1883) until the 1930’s. In recent years, the only active thermal spring on this terrace (Roadside Spring) was located near the north end of the Liberty Cap parking lot (C. C. Alleman, unpub. data, 1962); however, its vent is not discernible at the present time.

    Opal Terrace

    Opal Spring and Terrace lie at the base of Capitol Hill just across the Grand Loop Road east of Liberty Cap (pl. 1). Evidently Opal Spring was inactive at the time of the Hayden Survey; however, Crowe (1933) indicated that it may have been active during the early 1890’s. After being dormant for a number of years, Opal Spring began flowing again in about 1926 (D. P. Merrill, unpub. data, 1963) and has remained intermittently active to the present time.

    During the 1940’s, travertine deposited by Opal Spring began encroaching upon a tennis court in the northern part of the terrace. The spring eventually won the battle for space. In 1947 the tennis court was removed in compliance with the park’s policy of not interferring with natural processes (J. S. Desanto, unpub. data, 1962).

    Two small hot springs on Opal Terrace were active in 1974 (pl. 1). Spring MHS—3 began flowing about 1970 (G. T. Morrison, unpub. data, 1970), and spring MHS—4 has apparently been intermittently active since 1963 (W. R. Phillips, unpub. data, 1963). A third spring (MHS—5), situated on the grassy bank south of Opal Terrace, is merely a warm seep with very little flow; however, travertine is being deposited along its runoff channels.

    Palette Terrace

    The two principal hot springs on Palette Terrace are Palette Spring (also known as Old Palette Spring) and New Palette Spring (sometimes referred to as Palette Extension). Palette Spring has been intermittently active at least since 1878 (Hayden, 1883), while the recorded activity of New Palette Spring dates back to about 1944 (D. P. Merrill, unpub. data, 1963).

    Hot-spring activity occurs at three other locations on or near Palette Terrace. Spring MHS—6, situated at the base of the terrace below New Palette Spring, discharged a minor amount of hot water in 1972 and 1973 but was. dormant in May 1974. The other two springs (MHS—7 and —8) apparently have had recurrent activity since 1964 (W. R. Phillips, unpub. data, 1964).

    Cavern and Reservoir Springs

    Cavern and Reservoir Springs lie southeast of and at or slightly below the level of Palette Terrace (pl. 1). Cavern Spring’s recorded activity dates back to 1955; however, this spring probably discharged for some time prior to 1955. Condon (1955) indicated that the large cavern (evidently the source of the name Cavern Spring) previously located here was nearly sealed by travertine deposition.

    Reservoir Springs have been intermittently active since the days of the Hayden Survey. Originally these springs were named Bath Springs because the tepid water was channeled into nearby bath houses (Peale, 1883).

    Peale (1883) provided the only record of a hot spring known as Little Joker, which apparently was located east of the Grand Loop Road across from spring MHS—6. On the west side of the road, a spring called Fan or Little Spouter evidently was active between 1961 and 1973; however, this spring was not found in May 1974. C. C. Alleman (unpub. data, 1961) indicated that the spring was about halfway between Cavern and Reservoir Springs, and J. J. Whitman (unpub. data, 1973) placed it directly east of Cavern Spring.

    Minerva Terrace

    Minerva Terrace contains two currently active hot springs. Minerva Spring (fig. 9), originally named Cleopatra (Hayden, 1883), issues from a fissure ridge (see pl. 1) and is depositing a well-developed series of terracettes. Although dormant for short periods of time (N. W. Scherer, unpub. data, 1932; G. C. Crowe, unpub. data, 1 932), Minerva has discharged almost continuously since the days of the first Hayden expedition and has been one of the most colorful and popular attractions at Mammoth Hot Springs.

    The spring now named Cleopatra has been active at least since 1906 (Schlundt and Moore, 1909) and was originally called Diana Spring (a name that apparently persisted until sometime in the 1920’s). According to D. P. Merrill (unpub. data, 1969), Cleopatra was one of the most active and popular springs at Mammoth during the 1930’s; however, since the 1940’s, this spring has been characterized by only minor intermittent discharge.

    Main Terrace

    Main Terrace (fig. 3) contains some of the largest and most consistently active hot springs at Mammoth, including Blue, Canary, Jupiter, Main, Naiad, New Blue, and Trail Springs. Large amounts of water discharging from these springs and the colorful algae living in the hot springs and their runoff channels have made this terrace an outstanding attraction since the days of the Hayden Survey.

    Hayden’s (1872) first map of Mammoth Hot Springs shows a thermal spring named Blue Spring7 near the northwest corner of Main Terrace. Apparently when the spring ceased flowing, the name “Blue Springs” was given to the hot springs that subsequently appeared near the center of the terrace (Weed, 1889). Later renewal of discharge near the former site of Blue Spring led to the name New Blue Springs, which has been retained to the present time. Schlundt and Moore (1909) indicated that both springs were active in 1906; however, very little information on the activity of New Blue Springs was found except for recent years. On the other hand, several observations through the years suggest that Blue Springs have been characterized by persistently recurrent discharge.

    7Blue Spring was named for the apparent blue color of the water; however, it should be pointed out that the water is clear rather than blue. This spring and a few other deep thermal pools at Mammoth only appear blue because of scattering and absorption of light rays (Alien and Day, 1935).

    The southwest corner of Main Terrace is the site of relatively recent (since 1962) thermal activity originating from a group of hot springs collectively known as Trail Springs (evidently from their position near the old trail in that part of the terrace). The volume of water discharging from these springs has varied considerably. In 1971, the flow from Trail Springs covered nearly an acre (G. T. Morrison, unpub. data, 1971), whereas in May 1974, there was only minor discharge from a single vent.

    Mound, Pulpit, and Jupiter (Marble) Terraces top the steep scarp along the eastern face of Main Terrace. Algae living in the fluctuating runoff channels of Canary, Main, Jupiter, and Naiad Springs usually decorate parts of these slopes with an array of splendid colors. As the runoff channels change course along the face of the terraces, the algae die and the dry travertine deposits soon become white and then dingy gray.

    Canary Spring, near the southeast corner of Main Terrace (fig. 3) has had intermittent discharge since the 1870’s (table 5). Originally called “Sulphur Spring” (Hayden, 1883), this hot spring probably owes both names to filamentous sulfur-depositing bacteria commonly found growing in the waters of some thermal springs.

    The two large depressions near the east edge of Main Terrace (pl. 1) were named Main Springs by the first Hayden expedition because that was the site of the principal hot-spring actiyity at that time (Hayden, 1872). Through the years, the two pits have been alternately full and empty (table 5). In 1972, the larger of the two was filled with hot water (fig. 3) but was dry again in May 1974.

    Mound Terrace, in the northeast corner of Main Terrace, is a fissure-ridge deposit. The line of hot springs along the southern part of the fissure, called Jupiter Springs, evidently has been intermittently active since the 1870’s. Naiad Spring, perched on the eastern face of Mound Terrace and apparently having a subterranean channel independent of the fissure ridge, has had recurrent discharge since at least 1878.

    Prospect Terrace

    Prospect Terrace (fig. 3), an old travertine terrace with only minor recorded hot-spring activity, probably was named for the scenic view of the lower terraces from a section of its eastern rim called The Esplanade (H. M. Majors III, unpub. data, 1962) (pl. 1). The part of the rim that protrudes peninsulalike out over Main Terrace is an old defunct hot-spring deposit, named Fissure Ridge by the Hayden Survey (Hayden, 1883). The only record of thermal activity on this ridge is Peale’s (1872) observation that the fissure, extending along the entire length of the rounded linear mound, was lined with sulfur crystals deposited by vapor escaping from the gurgling waters far below.

    Cupid Spring, in the notch between Fissure Ridge and the mass of Prospect Terrace (fig. 10), has a recorded history of fluctuating but nearly continuous discharge since about 1931, when the spring deposits began sealing a cave called Cupid’s Cave (W. B. McDougall, unpub. data, 1931). The only other prior records of hot-spring activity at this location describe geyserlike discharge, in which two small springs intermittently spurted hot water to a height of about 1 m (Peale, 1872). There are no true geysers at Mammoth Hot Springs; however, if gas comes out of solution in sufficient volume and rate, the water can be ejected to a height of several centimeters or more.

    A vapor vent located just across the Terrace Loop Road west of Cupid Spring marks the former site of Baby Spring (pl. 1). This hot spring, possibly named for its small size, was intermittently active during the years 1932-65 (table 5). Three other currently active hot springs on Prospect Terrace are Prospect Springs (intermittently active since about 1954 (C. C. Alleman, unpub. data, 1954)), spring MHS—9 (having recurrent discharge since about 1963 (unpublished data from the naturalists’ files)), and spring MHS—10 (minor flow in 1973 and 1974).

    Narrow Gauge Springs and Cheops Mound

    One of the best examples of an active fissure ridge is Narrow Gauge Springs (fig. 24), which apparently was named for the ridge’s resemblance to an old-time narrow-gauge railroad track bed (H. M. Majors III, unpub. data, 1962). Narrow Gauge Springs, intermittently active since about 1890 (Guptill, 1890), may have had its greatest recorded activity in the late 1920’s, when Joyner 1928c) counted 180 hot springs and 70 vapor vents along the top of the ridge.
    Narrow Gauge Terrace (fig. 24). This feature is a fissure ridge that is intermittently active (table 5).

    Cheops Mound, another fissure ridge located just south of Narrow Gauge Terrace, has no recorded activity; however, it is shown as a hot spring on one of the old maps of Mammoth Hot Springs (Hague, 1904). The north side of the mound has an excellent series of well-preserved old terracette deposits.

    Angel Terrace and Glen Springs

    Angel Terrace, intermittently active from the 1870’s until about 1 953 (table 5), was periodically a very popular attraction when large volumes of water inundated the ter races, allowing the colorful algae to grow profusely. In fact, H. M. Majors III (unpub. data, 1962) indicated that this terrace was apparently named for the delicate, celestial imagery of the pink microorganisms that lived in the hot springs and runoff areas.

    One of the smaller active fissure-ridge formations, named Glen Springs, lies in a hollow between two older nearly parallel fissure ridges just north of Angel Terrace (fig. 17). This spring is somewhat hidden from view, which may account for the scanty record of its activity; however, the available data (table 5) suggest that Glen Springs has been intermittently active since the 1870’s.

    Highland Terrace area

    The Highland Terrace area, as defined by Peale (1883) and later by G. D. Marler (unpub. data, 1961), includes all the travertine deposits in the southwestern part of the area shown on plate l. The northeastern part of this area is known as Highland Terrace. No hot-spring activity has been recorded on the old fissure ridge called The Buttress. New Highland Springs have been intermittently active since at least 1928 (Arnold, 1928b), and from the late 1950’s to the present this group of springs has been one of the most spectacular areas at Mammoth.

    Highland Spring was intermittently active from 1871 until about 1970 (table 5). The remaining springs on Highland Terrace proper (Cedar Tree Spring and springs MHS—11, —12, and —13) all have very short records of activity (tables 5, 6). Spring MHS—11 currently discharges only a trickle of water from a few vents along a rather small, slightly rounded fissure ridge, whereas the rate of flow of the other three springs has ranged from less than 4 L/min to about 40-80 L/min during the years of observati0n (1972-74).

    Several of the remaining hot springs in the Highland Terrace area are small pools ranging from a meter to about 50 m in diameter. Bath Lake, the largest of the pools, has completely dried up at least twice during its recorded history, once during the 1920’s (Arnold, 1928b) and again in the 1950’s (G. D. Marler, unpub. data, 1961). The supply of hot water that feeds Bath Lake began flowing again after the 1959 Hebgen Lake earthquake; the earthquake is not known to have been directly responsible (G. D. Marler, unpub. data, 1962).8

    8In the past, numerous earthquakes have been felt at Mammoth Hot Springs, some of which caused landslides at Golden Gate and structural damage to roads and buildings in the area (Fischer, 1971). While such disturbances in the Earth’s crust probably caused changes in hot-spring activity at Mammoth, few such changes have been recorded, perhaps because the thermal-spring activity is so variable.

    Evidently the name Bath Lake originates from this warm pool’s early popularity as a bathing spot (H. M. Majors III, unpub. data, 1962). Early tourists who swam in Bath Lake probably viewed the experience with mixed emotions: Wingate (1886) indicated that, although he enjoyed the warm soothing water, his skin became encrusted with calcium carbonate to the extent that his body appeared to be whitewashed.

    Another hot-spring pool, about 25-28 m in diameter and known as Painted Pool, is located just south of Bath Lake (pl. 1). Apparently the name Painted Pool was originally given to a smaller pool (Hague, 1904; novv MHS—18), but probably when the small pool became dormant, the name was switched.

    Several additional small pools, most of which are unnamed (pl. 1), occur in the Highland Terrace area; the only named pools are Sulfur Spring, Soda Spring, and Poison Spring. The exact location of Sulfur Spring, which first appears on the 1871 map of Hayden (1872), is uncertain, but the spring with this name on plate 1 is in a strongly acid-altered area that contains gypsum and sulfur (Bargar and Muffler, 1975).

    The name Soda Spring has at various times been applied to at least three springs, most often to a warm spring in a grassy area about 180 m west of Painted Pool (pl. 1). However, a cold spring in Snow Pass (fig. 2) and the spring in a marshy area 30 m north of Squirrel Springs also have had this name (Gooch and Whitfield, 1888; Allen and Day, 1935).

    Poison Spring, located about 150 m southwest of Painted Pool (pl. 1), has a cavelike cavity at its southern terminus. W. R. Phillips (unpub. data, 1962) indicated that numerous birds have been asphyxiated by carbon dioxide gas in the cave.

    One of the few active isolated cone-type hot springs (spring MHS—24, fig. 25) occurs about 30 m southwest of Poison Spring. This spring is particularly notable as representing an early stage in the development of a cone such as Liberty Cap (fig. 8).
    Spring MHS—24 (fig. 25). Pencil above small stick (circled) protruding from lower part of deposit is about 15 cm long. When first observed in September 1972, the height of the spring was exactly equal to the level of the stick. In September 1973, the cone was about 74 cm high, and by the following May, the date of this photograph, it had grown to a height of nearly 94 cm. Reddish-brown color is due to algae. Yellowish fibrous material surrounding the orifice of the spring is bacteria.

    The Highland Terrace area also contains several active and numerous inactive fissure ridges. Devil’s Kitchen Springs, Orange Spring Mound (including Tangerine Spring) (fig. 16), Squirrel Springs, and White Elephant Back Springs and Terrace (figs. 13, 18) have all been intermittently active since the 1870’s.

    <<< Previous <<>> Next >>>

    bul/1444/sec4.htm
    Last Updated: 20-Nov-2007

    Thought this to be most interesting with “Pinyon Terrace” info

    SL

  22. Here’s another interesting observation for the word qi. Check out the noun version of the word.
    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/qi
    I’m thinking this applies to forrest’s drawing in book of him looking at gravestone. He’s colored light on one side and shaded on the other. It’s his perfect balance between light and dark, yin and yang if you will. Perhaps another meaning for the word pinyon. His spot of nirvana. Hope this works with your solve, fits for mine! IMO

    • Hello SL. I know the goodness in your heart in wanting to help others. Your effort has been greatly noticed by me and I greatly appreciate it. I look forward to reading more of your posts.

      • i really strongly think you over use the word greatly, jmo
        but i appreciate the sentiment

        • Hello Joseph. When I speak, I use my words sincerely. Using the word “greatly”, is truly how I feel. To ask that I not be myself, gosh, I don’t know what to say.

          • HI pdenver.

            I, for one, appreciate your gracious civility. You set an example of respect in our daily discourse. You’re aces in my book.

          • Melanie, I totally agree, pdenver is a consistent source of positivity here and should be valued as such.

          • Hello threerocks. Thank you so much for your kind words. I truly am grateful, or in other words, “I greatly appreciate it.” 🙂

        • I think he is talking about someone else not Denver! Must be that person who is very right and smart the new moderator! Lol..

        • Ironic someone would criticize the over use of a word by pairing really and strongly redundantly in the same sentence. Also kind of a rude response to what was a friendly message.

          • glad someone noticed that….it was on purpose
            perhaps I was off my oats when I wrote that–I wound up spending the night in the bathroom

            no offense intended PD 😉

  23. Virginia Thrasher. Fired a gun for the first time while hunting with her grandfather, a mere five years ago. Now an Olympic gold medalist in shooting.

    Whatever you’ve got planned for 2021, dare to dream a little bigger.

  24. All,

    If anyone cares to see a solve, go search it out on a site that i will not name. the thread is called “Out in the Sunshine”

    LitterateOne.

    • Hello Dal. Thank you for posting the audio. I greatly appreciate it. Hearing Mr. Fenn read the poem, perhaps we might understand where “HIS” pause(s) are intended to be and perhaps, have a better understanding where the clues may be. I did say, “perhaps,” didn’t I? 🙂

      • Gotta like the way he said “blaze”.
        Gotta love the way he emphasized “CEASE”.

        Listen up peep’s & sheep’s, I guess it doesnt matter if you’ve been brave or are brave either way you gotta be.

        Yes, quest appears to be “it”.

        • https://youtu.be/aJBakBqwQVs

          Jake Faulker…

          Listen to the very last part where he says “Do I wish the chest to be found in my lifetime?” “Part of me says yes.”
          “Part of me says no.” That should give you the inspiration you need to believe the chest is real!

          • Aaah, John,
            I don’t need anymore inspiration.
            Not sure where you got that I do.
            I know the treasure is real & never doubted it from the beginning.
            I think you need to read & understand what I say.
            Saw, heard & understand that video more times than I needed to.

      • I’ll answer that pdenver seeing you haven’t listened good.
        NO!
        They are not the same.
        Listen good to them both again.
        Your welcome.

        • Hello Jake Faulker. Thank you for “listening good”. I greatly appreciate it. The reason why I asked the question that I did was the same that you noticed: ‘If you’ve been brave and in the wood.’ With these two being different occasions, Mr. Fenn has read the line as such. Does it make a difference between what he said and what is written? I’m not sure. Would enjoy hearing everyone’s thoughts.

      • PD-
        I don’t believe this track was ever released. It was recorded when Nick, the SBC Journalist was interviewing Forrest, on-camera, a couple years ago. I don’t think Nick used this version in the story. I only have the audio portion because I stuck my audio recorder near Forrest when he read it for Nick. It always makes me laugh because he messes with his own poem…probably not intentionally…probably just didn’t have it committed to memory perfectly…

        • Hello Dal. Thank you for explaining this to me. I greatly appreciate it. I wonder if any time he was creating his poem, if he had considered at one point to have it read, “If you’ve been brave and in the wood,” hence how he read it as such. Probably just a slip of the tongue. As much as I can recite the poem by memory, I still have to pause sometimes to remember which comes next. I do have to giggle with not messing with his own poem. 🙂

  25. Does anyone happen to know if Minerva was a Tinamou? Also
    ..any bird Ppl near Santa Fe know if there might be any nearby preserves or watch areas?

  26. I tried searching through Dal’s site and didn’t find it yet, so I apologize if this has been posted prior. I wasn’t sure where I should post it, so figured this might be the best place.

    There is an interview from 16 July 2016 where Forrest appears to confirm that the treasure is buried. Take a listen and see if you agree.

    16 July 2016, Hour 1, begin at 12:55 mark.
    http://rudymaxa.com/podcasts/2016-2/

    • I listened but there didn’t seem to be a confirmation that the treasure was buried. Unless you mean he didn’t contradict the interviewer when he used the word “buried”.

        • Tommy-
          That is not the first time he’s used the “buried” word. We’ve had a discussion about why he said “buried” before.

          Clearly, “hidden” is his preferred term. He occasionally says that it is “buried” but many of us attribute that to Forrest listening to the interviewer say “buried” several times before Forrest speaks. Forrest then repeats “buried” without even recognizing that he said it…because we all know that he prefers to say “hidden” and won’t commit to saying it is buried or not…

          At any rate it is a misspeak. Like “pinyon” and other things he has said in the heat of an interview.

          You can argue endlessly about the validity of such a misspeak…but you won’t know for certain unless you find it…

          Until then, I think it’s wise for me to keep my options open and not get set in my expectations…

  27. Researching various words in the poem and looked up the word treasure. The etymology was interesting especially the Latin variety meaning thesaurus. Could the treasures bold be the words in the poem?

    • Could be 🙂 treasures, gold, riches,chest, the cold, the end, loads, secrets…how many other versions of ‘treasure’ do.you see on there….are there nine? (Even nine, itself, as “pieces of” woodwork)…I mean would work…but I think he said the frame is the most important part and any gallery owner knows that…maybe maybe nine is just the frame, or.the set up or something? No clue. I tried.

  28. In ancient Egypt, when a Pharaoh passed on to the ever after his tomb was filled with riches, servants (self sacrificed) and other objects that would have been considered symbols of his earthly power and ranking in the afterlife.

    Ironically, one of the least desirable jobs, as well as symbolically an honored post, was that of the tomb builders. Tomb builders typically went to the grave (literally) with Pharaoh, for lack of a better word, as no one could know the final location within the structure of the actual tomb. Those that did not want to go of their own volition, were typically sent down that path by those loyal to Pharaoh.

    Common sense stands to reason that the mighty Pharaoh, while a living deity on earth, was humanly intelligent enough to understand that if anyone knew where his final resting place was in the elaborate and often booby trapped maze, then someone would have the knowledge to reach it and likely rob him of those objects and riches.

    After over two years of researching the Poem,TTOFC and any and all information associated with the “Chase”, I often laugh to myself at how wise, shrewd and quite frankly, Pharaoh-ish, Mr. Fenn is/was about his treasure hunt.

    I have been all over the map (TFTW) quite honestly, journaled every hint or potential clue, followed the lead or ideology of other searchers and organized my efforts as if I were interviewing for a position at Scotland Yard. (lol)

    So where does this leave me and what have I learned? Well of starters, this is the most fun I have had in years. Originally, my thoughts were of riches, but over the last two plus years I would say it has evolved into a competition. Like Forrest and the many other searchers out there, I am a competitor and I want to solve his quest. I have also learned that too much information can cloud your thought process, as the brain functions at its creative best when its not “overloaded” and given the opportunity to “work through things”.

    So, where am I going from here? Well, after many solves that did not pan out, or I found out others were on the same path and still no $$$. I decided I needed to rethink my strategy. A famous treasure hunter/archaeologist from the 1800’s (name intentionally omitted) once said that to solve the impossible is to evaluate nothing more than the facts and be flexible in the methodology with which you apply them. With this approach in mind over the last few months, for some reason I feel much more “clear headed” in how I evaluate the Poem. While all the “after the fact” facts are great, I think the Poem is the key. When this started, it was started by a man who wanted to be remembered, was faced with his own fragile mortality, intended to “lay to rest” with the cache and wanted people to get out in nature and remember to LIVE WELL. Mind you, I’m not saying the extra crumbs aren’t great or interesting, I’m just saying I don’t think they are the proverbial “deal breaker”.

    Over the last three months, I have developed a new solve that I feel is interesting on many levels. Firstly, it is an approach based on Forrest and what he was feeling when he wrote this Poem and began this journey, as I think the state of mind is critical to understanding the thought process. Second, I have taken the perspective of what I know of Forrest’s life collectively, not just fishing at Hebgen or flying planes or Brown Canyon, Street, River, etc. I would think the collective of a mans life is what he would want to be remembered for, not just childhood or dad or logging, etc. Its in this train of thought that I feel answers may be found. Forrest made a statement if I recall, and I am not stating it verbatim so don’t get all technical, but it was something to the effect that a man can start somewhere and return to the place as if it were for the first time. Wouldn’t you say the collective of a mans life can be viewed as such? Although we may start somewhere and come back to it, we have become a different person because of our life experiences right? I think there is a philosophical element to the clues that is being overlooked in lieu of literal geography and landmarks, which I believe are a part or it, but again, not the end all be all.

    Anyhow, just sharing thoughts…..well wishes and starlit dreams to all!

    TSHB

    • Sleepy, I share a lot of your outlook. Glad you expressed it, and so well. I think the poem condenses the big picture, the whole of this mans maturity. Not just an early part of him. Or a quirky part of him. A slow reading of the stories is very touching. The ‘look backs’ and powerful brevity say so much.

      • Thank you OS2, much appreciated.
        Melanie, I have not read Little Gidding, apologies. I will take a read of it some time. I am aware that it is a poem drawing its breath from the history of the town, specifically strong religious (Anglican) roots and its parallel to what was going on at the time during WWII. Sounds interesting.

        • Hi SHB. FF has quoted passages from Little Gidding, i.e., “…the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.” To some (myself included), Little Gidding seems to present many parallels/similar themes to what, how & why FF wrote what he did. There is much more to Gidding than history. I think you will find it particularly interesting with regard to your new solve.

          ps: Online “Cliff Notes” are useful, too.

  29. The following is my opinion. There is nothing odd about the chase,and the poem. Most of us do not understand this. Most of us searchers do not know this because we are playing in a labyrinth of our own making. All the clues in the poem are illusions, but they do exist in their own space. We are thinking that there are waters of some kind, there is no waters involved. We have it in our minds that a canyon is to be followed to get to not far, but too far to walk. The poem is whatever you want it to be, right? Well this is the wrong attitude.

    There is no path to the treasure just your destination. There is no chase of any kind just the one you are making in your own mind.

    There is a sequence of steps you must follow to get to your destination, and then just stay, stay and look, look and think, and think, and think, but do not leave, just be patient and you’ll get it. If you leave you may never come back. Listen to what I am saying. If you do not give this a chance you will for sure miss it. If you,or when you challenge what I am saying you’ll find out you were not listening, just like the poem.RC

    • RC,
      ~ “There is no path to the treasure just your destination.” ~ ~ “There is a sequence of steps you must follow to get to your destination,..”
      Does his contradict what you are implying? If there are steps that must be followed to get to the destination, the poem should guide you to that destination… is That not a path Or are you saying the poem is simple a single location, and we just need to get there?

        • Ok.. I see. No explanation to you’re fortune cookie… He who discovers it will find it, knowing it has been discovered once found.

    • RC, Believe it or not, I think this makes sense. Only problem is, it hasn’t worked for me so far. Not exactly sure what the problem is/was. Maybe I didn’t stay long enough, or look long and hard enough. IDK. Maybe I missed a clue. How’s it working out for you?

      • It is going fine WiseOne, but when you get there look at, look at it.Think.No special knowledge about anything, just look at it. You will see it,if you look at it long enough. RC.

        • RC I am really curious as to why you do not have the treasure by now. All winter long you posted things very similar to this. You portray yourself having this deep insight into the poem and this past winter you knew exactly where it was. Why are you not going and getting it? There is no snow on the ground any longer.

    • RC – a resounding YES!!!!! If I could put this in bold and underline it, I would. I hear ya.

      I did not understand this my 1st couple times out, but I have come “full circle” (ha!) over the years and now believe this is the way to solve the poem. It is not a progressive linear path on the ground, point A to point B, as I initially thought. It’s not even circular, as I also once believed after regrouping from the linear approach. NO. It’s a point, a specific place you’ve arrived at by a mental progression, thinking, thinking, thinking…metaphorically, emotionally, outside your own head and inside FF’s – with FF as an everyman who faces his own mortality (albeit on his own terms and with his own history and means to inform us).

      Let me take a momentary side-step…. I believe that the 1st stanza of the poem is an over-arching HINT at narrowing down WWWH (as well as offering other HINTS), but not a CLUE. Afterall, to my knowlege, FF has never said there are no hints in the poem. He has said hints are in the book…..so in the poem counts too, as I see it.

      That said, since the very beginning, my 1st CLUE has always and forever been BIWWWH. BEGIN = 1st. And, that still works with my current thinking, which is that when you UNDERSTAND and KNOW what has brought you to the exact physical real-life place of WWWH (without it having follow-on physical linear type clues to point A, point B, etc.), your brain, heart and eyes will be prepared to see what is right there and how to hone in on and locate the chest – all those other clues that got you here will fall into place and click into focus. This is why Little India can’t get past the 1st 2 clues. Everything from there on will be site-specific and need to be interpreted on-the-ground. Seen thru a kid’s eyes, almost like magic.

      I really doubt GE will be of any use after Clue 2. From there, It’s primarily a mind game leading to the end of Fenns’ rainbow, his treasure, which I believe to be at WWWH. So, an ending as well as the beginning. A single place, that embodies the cycle of FF’s life (a la Little Gidding, I believe).

      As FF has said, you’ve got to nail down that 1st clue. Why? Because that’s where the TC is. And I believe it’s at WWWH. I am convinced of this, but will concede it is just my very humble opinion.

      The challenge FF has given us is to figure out the exact right WWWH. I wish I had it figured out, but I don’t. Yet.

      YET!!!

      Thank you for posting, RC. I’ve wanted to express this for a while. Hope I’ve added a constructive thought or two.

    • Imo. Right now, I think your right about no waters. Maybe he’ll be ready soon and tell us there is no water near the tc. Meaning rivers, creeks, lakes, ponds, brooks, waterfalls and the like. It reminds me of a lyric about dieing alone in the desert sands.

  30. All,

    Was watching Monumental Mysteries last night and saw an episode that talked about the mysterious disappearance of a Everett Ruess back in 1934. According to the show and a quick Google search, Everett was a 20 year old, poet, writer and vagabond who wandered the southwest in the early 1930’s. Everett went missing in 1934 and was presumed to have been murdered, but his remains have never been found. I find the story fascinating and my mind wonders if Forrest knew of his story.

    There are many articles on him and his disappearance, there is also a book written containing letters written by him, I believe that was published by his family. Some of his writings are very poetic and inspiring about being in the outdoors. Again I wonder if the mystery and wonderment had any influence on Fenn, I may email Forrest and ask if he knew of him.

    LitterateOne

  31. This Chase reminds me a lot of baseball and golf. There are those that have been humbled, and those who are going to be!

  32. Okay here is something I have been thinking about lately that I haven’t found much discussion on. Hopefully I won’t butcher the quote from FF too much. FF made the comment that Google maps doesn’t zoom in close enough to see the chest. Does that mean that if you could zoom in closer with better resolution you could see the chest? Wouldn’t that mean that it is not buried/entombed/hidden in the woods? In order to see it from above it would have to be out in the open or a semi-open area…HMMM.

    • greg-
      I think you’re correct in what he meant…but…just to murk things up a bit…He might have meant that GE doesn’t see down far enough under the ground…
      I really don’t think that’s what he meant though…but ya gotta keep your options open in this game…

      • I agree with both of you. Just try to recognize anything that is only 10″ x 10″ and you will see that is impossible. Chances are really good that he covered/buried it under something, anyway. IMHO that something is mud and mud that is not very likely to erode away. Hard to find…but can be found.

    • I also agree you are correct in what he meant.
      I have two theories where the final resting place is… One in an open meadow within some tall grass (like the tomb stone) or in an alcove alone a canyon wall, simple to get too, just now seen from above or below.
      The latter theory might not be valid if you could see it using google earth if it could zoom in further.

      • “the final resting place is… One in an open meadow within some tall grass …”
        ———————————————–
        Okay, so he places chest at spot X right in the middle of a big meadow. Why place it at spot X when he could place it at spot Y, a hundred feet away in any direction? Arbitrary placement?

        Ken (in Texas)

          • Fenn has said many times that nothing about finding the treasure will be accidental implying the treasure cannot be discovered simply by stumbling across it.

            Yep I’m pretty sure its not resting in the grass somewhere.

          • Jake,
            I have always wondered about that. How did he find the hidey spot? He must have “stumbled” upon it when he initially found it, right?

            BB

          • BB,
            I think the only person that knows this info is the man who found it.
            I would speculate he stumbled across it when him & Donnie went on there excursion in the Madison’s & got a birds eye look later in life flying over it.

    • I’M ON TO SOMETHING!!!! Thanks Greg!

      HMMM is the upsidedownandbackwardagram of WWWH ! …..or is that toplefttobottomrightdiagonalinversionagram?

      wait, I’m not on to anything, I have just lost my mind

  33. May as well put this here as anyplace… How and Why would one “hint of riches”?

    I don’t think there has been any analysis of what could be meant by the phrase.
    Is the hint a lure?

    • OS2, What do you think riches might mean? If it’s ‘the’ treasure’ that’s one thing… if for example it might mean knowledge, that’s another perspective. One reader might see riches of old artifacts, new to the finder… another might see riches of knowledge past and present.
      Each would give a different perspective on how to read the poem.
      If you lean to it simply applying to the chest / chase, you might tend to read the poem as simple stepping out point to point.
      If you lean towards riches of knowledge [ influencing future generations in mind ] you might read the poem as historical, geological, geographical, etc. add in the ‘ comprehensive knowledge of geography might help’ and stanza one might shed a bit more light, than just fenn hiding old stuff, to be new stuff to the finder.

      IMO… this is what was meant as ‘difficult but not impossible’ as well as, ‘ know beforehand’ … there are many variables to words usages and meanings.

      • Well stated and agree with your methodology. I think the poem is a combination of many elements; geography, philosophy, personal experience, etc.

        • SleepyHollow,

          I’m not sure about philosophy. Maybe, but I lean more toward facts… geography, geology, etc. and personal experiences… which bring us back to the book. I’m getting dizzy.

    • OS2,

      I believe “And hint of riches new and old”, maybe in reference to the places that the clues in the poem refer to.

      ————————————-

      http://mysteriouswritings.com/questions-with-forrest/

      Question posted 6/25/2014:

      Hi,
      Did the same 9 clues exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will they still exist in 100 years and 1000 years?
      Thanks ~Ron

      Thanks Ron, thoughtful questions
      The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia. The Rocky mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3,009 it will be more difficult for you to find the treasure.f

      —————————————

      So yes the clues did not exist when he was a kid because he had no thought of the idea yet nor written the poem, but most of the places the clues refer to did.

      Again I believe that the final 2 lines of stanza one could possibly be a rhetorical question:

      “I can keep my secret where, and hint of riches new and old.”

      So he is asking us where do I keep my secret and hint of riches new and old, that place is in TTOTC.

      If you look at the three “mys” in the poem they are my treasure, my secret and my trove. If you put all three together you get my secret treasure trove. So it may be safe to assume that riches will be in reference to something other than the chest.

      LitterateOne

      • Interesting point Literate… HOB could be an old rich & heavy loads a new rich …. That word ‘my’ makes one think its material possessions or knowledge etc, but it could be locations he chose to use. Gotta go read that stanza again. Good one.

  34. I am going to Yellowstone this week for 5 days, anyone have any ideas on where I should seek the treasure? already been there 3 times and of course have come up empty handed, except for some fine photos of course. If you send me in the right direction, I will share the booty.

    • Yellowstone is so……crowded right now. Bus loads of tourists. Personally I am 3.5 hours away. I love to go in early spring or late fall. When the kids are in school. I would focus on the outskirts. This is a place Forrest would want to lay to rest. So…….the edge, not a place with buses etc. Up a creek……for sure. A special place……Away from hustle bustle. Good luck and be safe. Carry big bear spray. And Bells!

      • We will have bear spray, thanks for your concern. I agree, it will be crowded but we got this opportunity to go and we are taking it. Lucked out though, will be staying within the park. We are hoping that because a lot of schools are starting back this Monday, maybe it will be a little bit less crowded.

        • Oh. That’s great. You got to go when you can! It’s so much fun there. Have a Awesome time.

        • See you there fellow Jones 🙂 I’ll be a few days behind you though. Little pit stop in Wyoming first. Certainly you understand….don’t want to step on any toes.

    • The big boulder on Firehole canyon drive just in the edge of the water, (lat 44.633529, lon -110.865057) It has a split in the top would be great hiding spot and you can’t see the split from the road, also on the back side some interesting “blocks” that I spotted in a panorama view in GE photos, Carefull wading in the water it will be “cold”

      Wrath Falls, not that they match the poem but its a easy walk to a water falls that’s probably fairly private.

      • I will check this out, we are staying one night at the Old Faithful Inn which is close by. We love to go hiking around Yellowstone Park and into areas where people don’t like to go which typically is a few feet from their car. This will be our 7th trip looking for the treasure and I have trouble making the poem work because of the Home of Brown. But where you are talking about along the Firehole does fit a bunch of the poem in my opinion. I think that it could very well be that Where Warm Waters Halt is basically all of Yellowstone Park. So which canyon down? I have walked around the Firehole canyon, the Madison Canyon and the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone, just to see if the poem works in these areas.

        • Gregory Jones,

          In my opinion Brown is simply the chest, and “put in below” is the important part of that line. So where ever you “put in” will theoretically be below the home or resting place of the chest. So if you believe that to be true don’t get so focused on who or what Brown is, because in my opinion why would Forrest reference some obscure Brown one could possibly stumble upon and skip the previous clues and go directly to the chest?

          LitterateOne

        • Grergory, take a minute or two to read “Redneck From Texas..” in “Others Adventures”, and you will see my solve, it could still be under the “BUSH” that I wanted to remove, but wouldn’t ever do that, especially in a NP. Good luck

    • Gregory Jones,

      While I do not believe the treasure is in YNP a good place to look would be below Tower Falls (water high). If you use LeHardy rapids as your WWWH, the Grand Canyon as canyon down, the Bannock Ford as the put in below hoB, Devil’s Den as no place for the meek, tower creek as the creek you must go up then you theoretically end up below Tower falls , the end is ever drawing nigh. It is possible that searchers have been within both 500 and 200ft from both observation points. Good luck my friend.

      LitterateOne

        • nice and informative video L1. When I was considering that area I kept thinking (if it’s here, THOUSANDS of people have been within 500 ft). But alas, just not a place where bones would rest undisturbed I concluded.

      • LitterateOne — that’s actually not a bad combination of connected clues. One question: could you explain your HoB connection to Bannock Ford? Is it just that the Bannock tribe used this shallow, narrow section of Yellowstone River as a crossing point in the 19th century? Thx…

  35. I don’t think there is much point in explaining the obvious… could be treasure, could be knowledge, could be memories, could be his gift of language and story telling, could be a secret that will be disclosed only when found by the finder. Or could just be things that once belonged to Richard.

      • I agree. Why use the word hint when he outright says there are riches and tells about it? There is no hint about it. I think maybe the riches in the poem have nothing to do with ff’s treasure, but other riches, like artifacts and such. But artifacts are old, so what could the new riches be?

  36. mamakat…I think that “As I have gone,” has at least two interpretations, ‘As’- meaning previously is obvious, he told us he knew where to put the TC from the git-go. But ‘As’ – meaning his manner of going in, is unknown. Probably that is significant. Did he say he walked in, or did he imply it? Is there more to ’going in’ than just ambulation? Garb, disguise, permit/permission, nighttime, thru a window or hidden opening, in water, seasonal rules, etc. For me, AS & HINT. are the buzz words .

    • You ask, why is fenn hinting? Is the hint meant on how to read the poem?
      So my point is how does on use what old and new mean to the poem.

      Supposably the poem will lead one precisely to a one foot location… are we to simply guess at the words, meanings, matched to thousands of locations or can the poem be telling us how to read it properly?
      May this is why hinting is in the first stanza…

    • IMO, I think “alone” means something also. Maybe where you have to go to see the treasure only one person can fit (a narrow trail?) Or, maybe it is a place that is called something to do with being alone.

  37. Kinda funny how I thought in all these ways at one time.
    I love to watch all these ideas by the vets & newbs & know that i have been there already.
    Makes me think whether people are listening & understanding at all.

        • that’s why “Good Luck” wishes are handed out so readily. Really, it’s a wish that there is such a thing as luck (comin’ Your way).

    • Yep Jake
      Every single idea has been talked about dozens if not 100’s of times.
      What I find funny is all ya brilliant searchers who know so much and yet still no chest.

      Why is that?

      • Did I miss something? Did Seeker find the chest?

        No, you mean he is no different than all of the rest of us?

        • JD~ “This will be my last response to ANYTHING that you post – I am going to be childish and take my ball and go home.”

          Seeker ~ “Glad I got that in writing.”

          I knew his would come in handy one day!

          • Seeker;

            . I will give you this one – I just could not resist replying to your comment: “What I find funny is all ya brilliant searchers who know so much and yet still no chest.” – “All Ya brilliant searchers” – By using “ya” (you) , you exclude yourself, but in fact, you ARE one of us – whether you think you are not.

            Just sayin’

      • Why Seeker,
        You know, if there was a poll taken here on Dal’s site for the person that used the word “why” the most, I would say you are the clear winner.
        The real reason why is stated above where I said:
        “Makes me think whether people are listening & understanding at all.”
        You probably have wondered why I haven’t gotten back to you about the info you sent me on your solve.
        The information you gave was tiny, but I do have to say that it does not seem to be straightforward & the clues (which you didn’t elaborate on too much) did not appear to have an order & are not contiguous.
        “They’re contiguous, I put one foot down & then step on it, to get to the next foot.”
        What I think he is saying here is that each foot he puts down represents a clue & there are 9 steps to take in order.
        I don’t see that in your solve.
        Enjoy your next trip.

        • Jake,
          http://www.dictionary.com/browse/analyze to separate (a material or abstract entity) into constituent parts or elements; determine the elements or essential features of (opposed to synthesize ): to analyze an argument. 2. to examine critically, so as to bring out the essential elements or give the essence of: to analyze a poem.

          yourDictionary.com analytical
          The definition of analytical is someone who studies and examines the elemental parts of something, or is something related to the study of small parts of a whole.

          We have been told by the man who wrote the challenge to analyze, to think and plan, has an analytical mind and uses logic…”
          During this process, do we not ask questions about words, terms, usages, word placements, structure etc. You keep harping on why… why ask so many question. I have to wonder why you wouldn’t ask why? or what or how…
          fenn’s involvements in museums, artifacts, collecting, archeology, exploring… all work with one thing in mind… the attempt to find answers by asking the When, Were, why and how ?
          If you want to discuss/question my post on unpopular solve… we can move this over there. if you want to discuss/get clarification of e-mail exchanges, we can go that route as well, off the blog.
          If you want to know why I ask questions… please re-read the above.

          • Seeker,
            I’m just bustin your chops a little here.
            It’s good to ask why once or twice in a comment.
            I just don’t see how helpful it is to ask a bunch of why’s in one comment.
            We should have ample time to chew on a couple why’s before asking another why.
            So, anyway, do you agree with my 9 foot step theory?

          • Jake,
            I have never clearly stated I 100% disagree with 9 clues, 9 foot step theory, or 9 anything… Those who only use this process take what I post to be against it.
            In any theory, and I have discussed many different theories with many searchers, we need to ask those why’s… if we don’t, we are stuck with one thought.

            I do know why some get confused by many of my post… I don’t talk about a single method of reading the poem only, so I can see their confusion.
            I also think that in this stage… most would understand how it might be possible that; for example, WWWH is a body of water, or all waters, or no water at all, or even birth or death etc.. Or maybe ask who is ‘I’ in stanza 1 or can ‘in there’ of ‘keep it where’ be of time related. And add thoughts to other possibilities.

            Many of these and other thoughts have been discussed over the years by many bloggers [ not just me ].
            But the only ones that seem to get upset about these thoughts / ideas / interpretations are the single minded, one way only method, and don’t add to the discussions, but belittle any and all possibilities that the poem can be read differently than how ‘they see it’… That is… big ego 101.

            Maybe because if they did… they might see flaws in their brilliant, it must be my way only solve, and take those different conversations as a personal attack. Personally I think, all they really want is 15 seconds of fame.

          • Well, I see your point & yes it is good to explore other ways to read the poem.
            However, if one has a solve already based upon there way to read the poem, no one is going to get that person to change there mind mid stream.
            Maybe after several failures to any one way of thinking will bring them to see it in a different way.
            I personally have looked at other ways to read the poem in the beginning because I didn’t see many of the statements that Forrest had made.
            A month or so later I began to visualize on how the poem may need to be read.
            Along with his recent statements makes me feel more confident about this way of thinking. You just can’t ignore what the man has been saying.
            I never thought about 15 seconds of fame & really don’t care for fame, it’s not my style.
            I do not worship famous people.
            This type of fame is lame.

          • Jake~ ” if one has a solve already based upon there way to read the poem, no one is going to get that person to change there mind mid stream.
            Maybe after several failures to any one way of thinking will bring them to see it in a different way.”

            Exactly. I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind… only to add a different possible perspective of the poem itself.

            Some solutions I do have to question, and like you said; “A month or so later I began to visualize on how the poem may need to be read.
            Along with his recent statements makes me feel more confident about this way of thinking. You just can’t ignore what the man has been saying.”

            We have something that most ‘treasure hunts’ don’t have… the author’s involvement. Q&A’s, comments, statements etc. However, I personally don’t think fenn is handing out clues. But more that he is giving us things to ponder about to make us think.

            My example is the last Q&A… many jumped at hat as to say ‘see the poem purist’ have it all wrong… Ok, that’s what those folks thought all along, so why would they see any other possibility.
            Maybe it was the fact that… the little Indy question and this question left out the intro line to the poem. A line that is useless for the book itself, but might be very important to the poem.
            But those who think purist is a four letter word only see what they have always seen.

          • Seeker: ” I personally don’t think fenn is handing out clues.”
            You are in denial.
            There have been so many statements that have been straightforward.
            I’m not going to paste them here knowing you’ve read them already.
            Now, if you said the majority of the questions answered & statements just make us think & ponder, then I would agree with you.

            You see, there is no such thing as black or white. To me they’re all gray.

    • Hi Jake. I admire your input here on HOD. You and a limited few get my attention and have given me valuable insights. Thank you, all. I hope I’ve given you one or 2 also.

      I started out on this Chase before FF began giving out “crumbs” to follow. I’d venture to say I’ve been at this longer than you, Jake, but not sure. All considered, and with no TC to show for the trouble, I guess that makes me a total loser (not the 1st!). No worries and no umbrage taken.

      In the process of being a total loser, to quote you, I’ve “thought in all these ways at one time” more than once myself. And circled back upon them, like a haunting raven. Been there, done that.

      Now, I need to go take a (proverbial) walk in the forest for a while. Goodest luck to all searchers and be well. Ciao.

      • Thanks melanie,
        Yes, I have enjoyed your input as well & you seem to be a realistic thinker.
        You have been at this a lot longer than I & you’re not a loser, you are richer & wiser because your experiences & way of thinking.
        Just out of curiosity, how many people do you search with?

        • Hi Jake. I come up with solves on my own, and if they are in NM, I search alone. If they are in MT, I search with 2 friends from CO (who used to live here in NM).

          Since I don’t have a good solve forming now, I’m going to take a break from the Chase for a while and clear out my head. I’ve put a lot of things on the back burner that need tending to now. I think the TC will still be waiting to be discovered when I return.

          Good luck.

          • Yea melanie, sometimes you gotta take a break especially when other things need tending to & you don’t have a solid solve.
            You probably shouldn’t go alone in NM either. I have gone alone the first couple of trips & decided it was not a wise choice.
            I am only searching SW Montana now & will never search any other state for the treasure. That’s how convinced I am about the Treasure State.
            If I make it to my spot in September & do not find it there, I think I’ll be done.
            I know I cannot come up with a better solve than what I have now.
            Did you ever get your boot back? I actually never went to Axolotl. I eliminated that lake from research using GE, GM & no creek & that trail is pretty close as well.

          • Hi Jake: if you’re searching in SW Montana, then I believe you’re searching in the right place.

          • Zap,
            I will never search any other place for the treasure.
            If it’s not there, that’s fine with me considering it’s the most beautiful place I have been.

          • Hi Jake. Thanks for your concern Don’t worry…my NM searches (only 10%) are pretty tame and close to home (really the only reason I still look here). I’m pretty sure the TC is in SW MT, like you. If you bust in Sept., keep an open mind and know you’re the wiser for it. I know how hard it is to come up with a new, improved solve but, ya never know.

            And yeh, had FF dropped a pertinent “crumb” or two before May 2013, my Axolotl solve would’ve been off my list, too. Oh, the creek was Beaver; “no paddle up your creek” (reference to beaver’s tail), which departs roughly from “no place for the meek” (site of casualties of 1959 earth slide). I also liked the bogs/fens near the top of the creek and the “axolotl” allusion to frogs. Plus, there was fairly easy access by car. The hike was definitely worthy of “brave and in the wood”, but too far in and too-human, as we learned later.
            http://dalneitzel.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Someone-is-following-us.jpg

            Alas……. we still had a great time. And, to answer your question, yes. I was able to pull my boot out, but it created quite a mess. I never liked those boots anyway.
            http://dalneitzel.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/sucked-off-boot.jpg

          • Thanks melanie,
            Yea, that looks like a Griz you wouldn’t want to meet up close.
            Sometimes timing is everything & your timing was good enough that day.
            I have gotten a few boots sucked out from the mud quite a few times & always one foot hopped back to them, sometimes hopping with an arm in the mud as well.
            Seems like no matter how tight those laces are, the mud still wins out.

            If I lived in any of the states where the treasure resides, I would have searched that state first along with the next closest states cause we all know you can fit the clues in the poem to any state except for a few that think there’s something in the poem that shows them where it is.
            Being from Florida now, I have to give it my best educated guess to where it may be.
            Funny, I thought about the beaver paddle thing up beaver creek & all the creeks above Hebgen lake. Just never felt completely comfortable with any of those creeks. Who knows though? I’m stuck a little North of these creeks.

            There will be no other place to search for me.

          • Hi Jake. Personally, I think “a little north of these creeks” is the right locale. Stick with it. Good luck – and may your boots stay stuck on your feet and not in the muck.

          • Jake – BTW, in that one pic, that’s the hand of rather burly a 6′- 4″ man. Pic was taken on our way out….paw print wasn’t there when we went in 30 minutes earlier. Maybe it was E*’s GRIZZZ?

          • Wow Melanie, that’s a big print… What would you have done if you actually saw him? Hope you had some form of protection?

          • Hi Spallies. Yeh, those tracks had followed us a little ways. We were never the wiser, and must not have smelled too interesting.

            We had a lame can of bear spray and a .45
            Plus, I’m younger and faster than my friends. Therefore, probably tastier. So, it all evens out in the end.

            But seriously, be prepared and be safe.

      • Great comment Melanie. Losing exists only in not trying and winners are those who persevere even when the odds are stacked against them. Keep trucking and pondering.
        TSHB

        • Thanks for the encouraging words, SHB. Until the TC is found, I wear the term “loser” with pride. Afterall, like aging, losing ain’t fer sissies!

          I will actively return to the Chase once a solid new solve percolates thru all the recycled dregs currently cluttering my head. Now, for that walk in the forest….
          ‘-)

  38. Seeker, Maybe we should all delete the word WHY and use the word HOW more. If ff is hinting, only he knows why, but we might recognize what and where his hints are. Literate one made a good point about the hints applying to new or old places. I donno, I gotta think on this when I have more time. I can’t guess at ff’s purpose, I can only look at the evidence.

    • I like that thought OS2. Is the how part of what we need to “plan” …. there are many question still unanswered but looking into how may explain why.

  39. Good Evening Team,

    I want to say thank you to all, although I have not been an active participant in the blog, rest assured I have followed closely I am ever impressed at how you all have such interesting takes on the solve. Kudos.

    In my humble opinion, the Poem is all you need to reach the solve. TTOFTC likely has some hidden subtle clues, as stated by FF, but everything else is just open ended crumbs. “Its 66,000 links north of Santa Fe (NM), its at such and such elevation, etc.” While thats great and all and does help, it does not and quite obviously has not, brought anyone closer to the solve. A few years back some searchers were within 500, 200, 100 or so feet of the location. But sadly, not any one of them knew that.

    The poem itself, as I am quite sure many are acutely aware, is widely open ended. People across the globe are searching for Brown Trout, Brown Canyon, Tangent points, Aeronautical curves, Marvin’s land records and every and any thing under the sun. Think on some of the “provided crumbs”… ” Well the clues didn’t exist 100 years ago, but the places they refer to did, not sure if they will by the next hundred years with the changing geography, etc, etc.” This isn’t a clue, its common sense, as are many of the dozens of other “after the fact”statements.

    The poem is specific and intentional. He knew the place and at one point was going to stay with the treasure. He also said that after he found out he was not going to succumb to illness, he still hid it in the same locale. What does that tell us? Well it tells me he was not going to lay at the bottom of a creek or steam and drown to be near a Brown Trout. It tells me he was not going to some arbitrary tree stump in Montana that he played on as a child. If his statements are genuinely true, than it would mean that the final location would have to be large enough for him to be there with the chest and remain undetected for quite some time. This would mean he was not at the bottom of some waterfall behind a rock, or near a trail cave or park that people regularly visited. Right?

    In my simple and humble opinion, the opening stanza of the poem, which ends with the first (.) is the key to where, meaning what State its in.

    After that we have to “Begin it where warm waters halt”. This particular sentence has been of great interest to me, specifically for how it is constructed and more so, as FF said at one point, you have to start at the beginning. There are the subtle symbolic references of Alpha & Omega (Begin It & Halt),but even more interesting is the literal context in which it is written. If you remove for a moment the thoughts of Grandma Brown’s geyser that erupted in 1837 in Colorado and has strangely never erupted again since (joking), the structure of the sentence itself, to me indicates that there is NO actual water, meaning the elemental compound.

    Anyhow….well wishes….and pleasant dreams.

    TSHB

    • Bravo!! Well stated. I agree with your line of thinking. My very first thought of WWH was Mammoth. When I went there in 06′ there was not water of any kind. It had halted.

      BB

      • BB,

        Thanks, but maybe you misunderstand the context of my thoughts. Again, mine only, but I do not believe there was ever water, at any time, involved in WWH.

  40. If you opened the chest and found that the bracelet that fit his wrist so perfectly was still on ‘his’ wrist….because the specific mummified wrist that was wearing the bracelet in the chest did, in fact, belong and have province with him….would you then consider it ‘your’ wrist that now fit the bracelet so perfectly? And subsequently “your bones” that were resting on top?….or would they still be his bones just in your chest?

    And would that make the key word skeleton? Like the skeleton key unlocked the poem since you didn’t leave his bones alone….since they were now your bones that built the “framework” for the solve? Would you leave your bones there too?

    Just curious.
    And masochistic.

    Lol. I wonder if more would laugh or faint at the hand in there though. It WOOD be funnie :)!

  41. Well, I’ve been thinking on HINT for a little bit, I’m not as committed as some of you guys. And a Hint is a little bit about something … heres my thoughts …

    Clues are positives. Clues point to something. But hints, I think tantalize, invite inspection, lure you to bite. Try thinking of the poem as the river, and we are the trout. Fenn tells us there are the rocks and eddys and a moose in the tall grass (the WWWH, HOB, etc.) but he lures us with words about knowing the answer, being tired & weak. Maybe we need to take the lures so we can understand the clues .

    The ‘riches’ in the poem clearly arn’t the treasure items. Though they are little things in size, and great in value, those items are readily exposed in the book. In the sparse language of the poem, it would be a wasteful reference. Riches must be something else. They must be things that can be fixed in time as new and old. Perhaps those characteristics are fixed within Fenn’s life time. Would he be be referencing time beyond his life experience if he is writing a memoir?

    Well, I have no answers, but thats how I induce and deduce in my armchair. I try to ask, explore, test. I have said noting that has not been said before, but maybe I said it a little differently and a fissure will open for someone.

    • Have you looked up the definition for “riches”? I often see people on here referring to memories or experiences as “riches”, but Mr. Fenn is a wordsmith and the definition is very specific. I have always been under the opinion that the items in the chest are exactly what riches is referring to, new being the American Eagle and Double Eagle coins, less than 100 years old, and old being some of the other items that are more than 2000 years old. Riches new and old.

  42. I like the way you think things through.
    But for as interesting as your post is, I’m not sure I agree entirely. I’m not sure I disagree either.
    That’s some good brain food, TSHB.

    • Thanks Buckeye Bob. I’m not sure I agree with my own thoughts either! (Lol) just theories and approaches. I think it helps to listen to others reaction to our own thoughts. It adds perspective.
      TSHB

      • Seeker,
        Your words are wiser and more valuable than most here think…and yes, that is My Opinion only.
        It took about a year for me to realize that the book was a necessity. Makes sense doesn’t it? The freakin’ Poem Is IN THE BOOK. Notice that the poem is on page 132. There is a lot of background info leading up to the poem and another 15 pages after. So, the poem, the TTOTC book and a good map and GE maybe….

        • Ken,
          You bring up a very good point, the placement of the poem in the book. My next comment is not of a poem purist… but of the after the facts… In the OH radio interview, There was a direct question about the book. Fenn answered [ as close as i can recall at this moment ] … you don’t need o read my book, you need to decipher the clues… and added… the book will help with the clues.

          So just because the poem is in the book, the thought we “need” or the book is a “necessity” is kind of a leap of faith imo. IF I attempt to stay true to the after the facts… I think they should refer to the book. Another words we need to decipher that the poem is telling us to “use the book as a needed part” of solving the poem.

          I have mentioned a couple places in the poem that might do just that as well. And if that is so… then the poem is where we need to understand that.

          So is part of the poem explaining that?
          And if so, that would change the reading of the poem or part of the poem to what is referred to as a clue, Would it not?
          Fenn has admittedly repeats to go back to the poem… imo… then the poem should tell us what parts of the book we should “need” other wise it’s back to… burning pages, using microscopes to examine illustrations, researching any and all spices or types of birds or 50’s and 60’s war planes, other author’s work and on and on…

          I need something a bit more precise than guessing what might be a clue reference in the book.
          If the poem has all the information needed to find the treasure, then it should lead us not only back to the book but where in the book. Would you say that is a reasonable assumption to what we have been told of to date?

          • Seeker;

            You say, “If the poem has all the information needed to find the treasure, then it should lead us not only back to the book but where in the book. Would you say that is a reasonable assumption to what we have been told of to date?”

            No, I do not think that that is a reasonable assumption. YOU have to solve the riddle, not have Forrest GIVE it to you.

            Forrest has said, “Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.” f.

            Forrest has said it all.

            Just my opinion.

            JD

          • Seeker,
            I do see and partially agree with where you are coming from. From a general stand point, I look at it this way… The Chase was started by Forrest with his writing TTOTC and making it public by putting on sale in the book store in Santa Fe. Irene and others gave some reviews and hence the ball started rolling and TTOTC got some air time. Without the book as the catalyst for the Poem, why would, or how would anybody just see or get the poem? I don’t believe for a second(as a Recovered poem purist) that Forrest intended for people to get involved without the book. Make sense? Just sayin’ and by no means preachin’…I just think it is as simple as that.

          • Ken,
            Was the chase started by writing TTOTC?
            Last I recall the poem was worked on for about 15 yrs. the thought of the poem started around 1988 the book came much later [ not sure of the exact year, but well later, i’m sure someone here know the approx years fenn said he wrote it ].
            Technically, do we know that fenn was going to write a book to place the poem within? or was he going to write the poem as the challenge by itself.

            These kind of small assumptions is not unlike the recent Q&A. We know there are 9 clues we need to decipher, we know fenn mentioned ‘his rainbow’ neither of which were mentioned in the most recent question, nor the Little Indy question. Maybe that is because, it is assumed by the questioner. Or it might be that one or the other or both are needed to be known. Even on fenn’s web page the intro [ for lack of a better term ] is there prior to the poem in the same wording as in the book.

            Important? Maybe someday will find out.

          • Ken-
            No one ever had to buy the book to read the poem. The poem was made freely available on Forrest’s website starting in 2010 when he announced the chase and published the book.

            As word about the chase spread, the poem spread with it. It was published in most news and magazine stories as was a link to his website.

            Forrest hoped folks would be interested in learning more about him and buy his memoir. But he gave all book profits he may have had the possibility of making to others so that he could never be accused of scheming to line his own pockets.

            I don’t believe it was ever Forrest’s intent to make the poem available only through the book. He understood that a press agent would be very useful. Irene filled that role and Margi got the first story out on the streets to a mass audience through Huffington Post.

          • Well, ya’ll can argue about this til the cows come home and the chikins go to roost…..but I think I’ll go with what the man hisself sez:

            Forrest answers a few questions that popped up in recent blog chatter-

            Are there clues in the book?

            “Yes, because the poem is in the book.”

            Will the poem lead you to the treasure?

            “Yes if you know where to start.”

            Are there nine clues in the poem?

            “Yes”

            Are there subtle hints in the book?

            “Yes, if you can recognize them.”
            ……………………………………………….

            He didn’t say that “some” of the clues in the book were due to the poem being in it……he said what clues there are in the book are “because” the poem is there, so if the poem weren’t in there…..no clues in the book!!!

            And he also says, as he has for years, there are “hints” in the book. He has said continuously that the “hints” in the book can help you solve the “clues” in the poem!!

            So, all ya’ll that find “clues” elsewhere in the book, ya’ll just keep on keepin’ on and Good Luck!! 🙂

            oh dang…….IMOIMO

          • Seeker,
            Your questions and ideas always inspire me. I learned a long time ago that there are no stupid questions, no matter how redundant or trivial they seem. There will always be the hard liners and know it all sorts in every crowd. That is part of what makes the world go around…
            My shared revelation that I no longer view the Chase as a one dimensional, Poem based adventure was only meant to show how one person(me) sees it. I believe that if a searcher is going to solve this mystery that everything Forrest offers up is on the table in terms of pertinent info. I will clarify that by saying that every time he opens his mouth he is letting all of us into “his world”. No matter how mundane or off the subject, he is letting us see and hear how he thinks and speaks. To me, that is important.
            If Forrest tells me to jump off a bridge, am I going to do it? Not likely!! But, if he says that good research material includes his TTOTC book you can bet on it that I am going to get it AND read it.

          • Ken,

            Yep. We should listen to the guy who started all this. That is a big advantage then most treasure have, the Authors involvement.

            But think about this… a WhatIF if you will. The poem has nothing to do with fenn personally, and maybe more about geography or another type of topic. No need to know where he lived or is fighter pilot days, his family or friends or even his pets. If I wanted folks wondering around nature and didn’t want to make the solve easy… I wouldn’t have it about me or anything else about me.

            Sure we knew he was originally going there as his final resting place… but is that truly what he poem is about? Like i said before, I’m looking into the “important possibility” fenn mentioned. It’s a needle in a hay stack, but so far, so is he poem.

        • All,
          Mincing words and splitting hairs has become quite common place and a meager substitute for good old common sense. I came into this Chase with an open mind and believe that is true today. I still contend that Forrest wrote the TTOTC memoir to tell the public about his life leading up to secreting his “Indulgence”. It is true that the Poem was available on his website before publication of the book…there could be a myriad of theories about that but the book did come out shortly thereafter.
          Trust me folks, I held off buying the book for nearly a year. I had heard the folks saying all other info would pollute your brain and Forrest even started out implying that all you needed was the poem. Over time, these tunes also changed. Forrest started regularly implying that a searcher should read the book because it would help to understand the clues. It really dawned on me that the book was essential after hearing Forrest say that more than a few times.
          Dal, I don’t think Forrest intended to limit himself in anything he has ever done. When he jumps into something it seems it always makes a big splash.(what was the story about his diving off the tower?) Or was that the one about jumping off the bridge as a kid? A hundred years from now is it likely that someone will come across the Poem on its own or more likely that the book will be read as a whole?
          Okay, a couple three years later, and still no chest for me. I am grateful I studied the Poem without reading the book. That made me THINK a lot. Reading the book now has made the Poem have a different feel. I will not brag about knowing anything at all. I will not make you think I know anything. Like Forrest said, ” I don’t even suspect anything”. I love a good mystery, and this is one of the BEST. It has become a nice past time for me and I hope it is for all of you…

          • Ken,
            In my mind you have a great attitude for the chase, and to be honest, most get stuck on one version or the other… book vs. poem idea.
            Some of us, myself included, do attempt to fact find the after the facts and not jump to anyone one conclusion. While I lean to the poem more than the book… that doesn’t say the book has not been helpful with the information within. Just not ‘clues.’ ~ imo.
            As loco has shown, fenn mentions hints in the book, and any piece of information is better than none. We can believe what each of us want to, But just like those who claim there are clues in every word fenn says, in every interview and comment, all the Q&A’s etc. Others see helpful thought provoking information.

            It’s not about splitting hairs, but more about understanding what is truly usable and what is fluffinutter…

          • Immediately after the poem , on page 133 is this sentence. “There are ALSO other subtle clues sprinkled in the stories”. Now, I think that means there are other clues in the BOOK that are not in the poem. I personally go where the clues are, in the BOOK.

          • Eagleabound,

            Hence my personal dilemma.
            Why does fenn say… [ to many list ] all the Information to find the chest is in the poem… hints in the book will help with the clues… don’t need to read the book, need to decipher the clues, the book will help… Hints in the book were not deliberately placed to aid he searcher… and many many more similar comments.

            “There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”

            “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.”

            “Get the Thrill of the Chase and read it; and then go back and read the poem, over and over and over again. And then go back and read the book again but slowly looking at every little abstract thing that might catch up in your brain, that might be a hint that will help you with the clues. Any part of some is better than no part of any. ” –

            What the heck is a clue?
            Little abstract things.
            Couple good hints
            A couple aberrations? [ fenn’s definition; something different ]
            A clue will point you toward the treasure, a hint will just help.

            I guess I could say… that line in the book was the first piece of information we knew about, so the book must have clues as well as the poem. That would say, all the after the facts can not be taken at face value. [ about clues and hints ].

            Is help for helpful now a clue or a hint is a clue, and I didn’t get the memo?

            Maybe all those “Useless clues” are actually important clues to solve the poem. Now I just need to figure out how many dang clues do we need.

          • It goes without saying that F can certainly be contradictory.
            But I still maintain the need for the book.
            I’ll explain it this way.
            If I gave you directions to my house in a poem, with no concrete starting place , how would you ever find me. Now if I wrote a book and told you that there were clues that would help you, wouldn’t you use that book to help determine where the starting place was?
            I honestly don’t understand why this conversation persists. We should be discussing what we think are clues in the book especially since we can’t agree on what are the nine clues.
            IMO of course

          • Eagle,
            I get what you’re saying…

            I can see that the poem might refer to a single staring point [ by name ]… right or wrong, I can see one. And believe me when I say I have come across some interesting parts in the book. But That is why I have asked, what is a hint to what is a clue? because fenn calls ‘everything’ a clue. He talks about hints, yet everything is called a clue.

            Logically, I guess I would do something of the same, If I didn’t want folks to know the difference and help lead them to the chest, other than he information provided at he start of all this.

            I live in the state of confusion or like most call it TN.

          • Hint/clue…they are synomonous, aren’t they?
            Will you at least agree to the need for the book?

    • Glad you joined the club Ken,
      Now, we don’t want to go back into relapse so there is a lot of material on this site as well as Jenny’s site to keep you busy.
      If you have a strong urge to just use the poem, then I suggest reading TTOTC immidiatly.
      You will get through this with help & encouragement from all your friends here.
      Remember, take one day at a time & don’t dwell on the past.

      • Would you consider being my sponsor Jake…? I often feel the urge to relapse into utter denial, but alas, I can’t stomach the idea of wasting the nearly four years of chaos I have thoroughly enjoyed!!! Just kidding around…keep coming back Jake…

        • Yes Ken, I would be happy to sponsor you.
          Please attend every meeting & do not go back to only using the poem.
          The poem all by itself can be intoxicating & you may go blind as a result.
          I have faith in you & you can do this. Call me any time 24-7-365 if you feel as though you only need the poem.
          We will get through this together with or without the chest.

  43. I have a query,

    If you found the chest, and it was in your possession free and clear(less Mr. Fenn’s bracelet of course), what then?

    1) Sell it all?
    2) Put a lien against it?
    3) Set it up for consignment or rent to museums?
    4) Piece it out as you need the money?
    5) Just hide it all again and make a new chase?
    6) Something else?

        • Nothing is free Jason & nothing is clear.
          You have to pay for everything whether it’s money, trade, brain cells or whatever.
          You are paying for everything whether you know it or not.
          Clear is only relevant to what you think it is.

          • If you don’t know what right is Jason, then I suggest you look it up.
            I can’t help you with that.
            I suggest you find the chest & ask us what to do with it or why don’t you start out telling us what you would do with it using your hypo question.
            BTW, sometime in the future, Dal just may have a new post page for these types of questions, but I doubt it considering it doesn’t help anyone that’s in the cart behind the horse.

          • If my hypo question is putting the cart before the horse, then why the page for legal ponderings? Is this not just a pondering after the legal pondering?

            What, may I ask, is the main issue you have with this question?

            If you choose not to answer, then I have no hard feelings one way nor the other. I was only curious what others opinions of this question was.

            I agree I do not posses the elusive indulgence, but wouldn’t this be a worthy question to be answered now, before you, or another searcher solved the riddle and was at a loss of what to do next?

          • No Jason,
            It doesn’t strike me as a worthy question.
            I think a more worthy question would not have multiple choice to your discretion.
            Anyway, it’s been interesting chatting with you.
            How long has it been since the cart ran over the horse & is headed for a tree?
            Hypothetically thinking anyway.
            You still haven’t answered your own question, but yet you want us to answer it…..

          • Fair enough, I will answer my own question.

            I would probably use a combination of piece it out as needed, and see if consignment is an option. Especially with kids involved.

            As far as my cart,… I have a new solve and this is where my mind went until I can prove myself wrong by either new info, or BOTG. All other questions have been answered in my head, and I like to stay in as state of quandary.

            Thanks for your time and input. Believe it or not you have given an answer and I thank you for it.

          • Your welcome for the answer I do not know of.
            Thank you for answering your own question.
            You like to stay in a state of quandary?
            I’m glad I’m not you.

  44. I would relapse and become a poem purist again…Actually I would sleep with the Chest and it’s contents for a year. Then, I would contact the Smithsonian and see where it went from there.

    • Ur.I see a few Mr. Smarty pants around…..but I don’t see ms. Smarty pants around? That E? Goofy?

  45. I started on the chase near the beginning but frustration, lack of time, and the scope of the search area were too much for me to handle. I have returned to finding a solution since retirement has left many “time holes” to fill.

    To all serious searchers I have one question which you may be able to address.

    When searchers went out of control and started digging up outhouses, etc., Forrest gave several additional clues to reduce the mayhem.

    Question??????

    Were some of the clues in the poem made obsolete (or solved) when he defined the area as “in the Rocky Mountains” and gave a “specific altitude” for the solve?

    Is where “WWWs Halt” still a clue? Is “water high” still a clue?

    Thanks in advance?

    • Lopo, I’ll throw out an answer…
      IMO, no one will understand the 9 clues for sure until TC is found; and even the searcher who finds the chest will not know until it is found that he or she had solved the 9 clues (whatever they may be) precisely and correctly. Many hints are available that will help to understand the clues.
      The bad news is that the quest is difficult. The good news is that it is wide open; TC has not yet been found, and the quest is not impossible. (But, IMO, following the 9 clues “precisely” is quite “challenging”.)
      Geoff
      “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • Lopo,

      Welcome back I guess. If I understand your question correctly, by Fenn providing the 5000ft-10200ft and in the RM’s clues did that solve or make obsolete WWWH or water high, I think that answer would be NO. Theoretically and I believe Dal has hammer this point home several times, while the CHEST must be located within the four state area and above 5000ft and below 10200ft not all of the prior clues or places the clues refer to that lead one to the chest do not need to.

      LitterateOne

  46. In my solve, the altitude description is a confirmation of WWWH, and not in general terms. It’s much more than that.

    IMO, “water high” is a specific, real place.

    RC, could you pull the leftover humble pie out of the fridge and warm it up? I’m going in.

  47. I’ll just come out with it….my first “piece” of nine, was the foot in Forrest’s armpit on page 8 of TTOTC. I cut it out that piece with an exacto shortly before the Gremlinus Americanus post thread Dal put up for me last year on the invisible ink stuff for a different piece. I 100% agree that not only was the chest “hidden” but a majority of the nine clues were hidden by him as well. I also think Eric Sloane’s books gave me hints on how to look for stuff. maybe it was just placed for fun but there stuff to put together for sure
    I generally try to hide information in my comments as well as a fun way to offer info if anyone wants to look.; but I’m feeling noisier than an apple tonighg. So for anyone looking for a new “out of the box” thought that wasn’t around last year for the hidden messages posts….check out the foot on page 8. If anything it’s a fun ‘lead’ to ponder at least …chest or not 😉

    • Now that you have your magnifying glass out, check out the kid sitting in the window on page18.
      I think f wants us to really focus on the pictures in the book, not just the words.
      IMO of course.

      • What do you see that is unusual regarding the people in the windows on page 18/?

        Thanks,

        Windy City

        • The little kid sitting in the window has a picture on his shirt. Pretty sure they didn’t put pictures on shirts back then. IMO of course

    • Hey Jonsey
      I’ve been here on the blog for 3 years and have a lot of BOTG under me. I am from Illinois and I am a puzzler myself, but I missed the hidden message posts (plural) can you go in a little deeper and let me know where I may find that post.
      Also, other than the Turquoise mine what else am I looking at?

      Timothy A.

      • In the armpit (F’S LEFT) On page 8 there’s a sandaled foot that doesn’t belong.

        As far as turquoise mines I thing several are of interest mainly the ones in listed in Joseph Pogues memoir (edited and revised by Fs partner who wrote a fwd. Arrowsmith) MANY times reprinted “the Turquoise”. It is written in the ‘indiana Jones F style so that non archaeologists can understand all aspects from mines to lore.

        The original posts on hidden messages (separate topic) were all last year ultimately leading to the “gremlinus Americanus” which had its own thread and many of Sloan’s other hints were also (abeit insanely obscurely haha) eluded to.

        I’d be glad to elaborate more but don’t want to fill the whole post with ramblings that many are not interested in all of. Feel free to email me and I’d be glad to elaborate or answer whatever or even lend out some of the original books skinmittens at America on line. I don’t leave for a little while yet.

    • lol, Jamie. I kinda used that as being back up info for the way he got to the spot. Foot near the striding horse. So, rode a horse.

      The most important thing for me was the rock in the upper left with the face of a wolf, or dog, or whatever. The “Y” stick in it’s mouth, the “T” shape under the left eye (or worm), and the hard to see sun(worm’s head). These would be things at the blaze.(I sound like jeopardy). Along with the rock on page 124, bottom left. Turn upside down, rock in upper right.

      • Gotcha. I literally cut that triangle out among a few pieces like a puzzle inside the “frame” with Skippy and the fish in his teeth. (Like the one on cover of TFTF as well) it thwn them over and “read” the reverse sides as a whole. Nice diversion and way to just open my brain to new thoughts. If you cut out the postmarks you can find a few black Fridays, a 1943 “copper” penny, spell Sacajawea’s real name, 141temp , and get some green tea too. What’s it all mean? I guess whatever choose to make of it. It was more fun to me than looking for place names on a map and my brain was fried on anagrams so I went on that tangent.

        • With the cut out postcards you’re just using the letters left inside the circle to spell stuff. No need to actually remove from the book like i did…only advantadvantage there was to notice the “copper” 1943 was a different shade than the rest@i didn’t see that ‘in’ the book…and I likes exploring the remaining “windows” for fun. NOT telling everyone to do the same….when it came up last year it want on a tangent of destroying books. Didn’t want to go there….really was pleasurable to me and only sharing for others that enjoy playing with and exploring new stuff. That’s all.

          • I will check it out.Need something new to do. Sometimes feel like I’ve seen it all, then something new comes up. Good job.

            Have played with all pictures, seems like he’s just having fun, except: TFTW map, Sloane painting (clouds with plane), the two pages we’ve discussed, and my pic of the blaze.( I think I still have your e-mail, I will send).

            Even started looking at the poems word counts to follow the pattern I come up with mirrored stanzas. I didn’t do a good job though. The only thing is if there was a stanza 7, 33 words, think there is something to it. Still early. Plus, had too much to drink last night. Brain hurts, Bob on a nickel started it off. Those snakes…

          • Pennies minted in 1943 were tungsten because copper was needed for the war effort. There were 4 copper 1943 pennies, I think, very rare, and if you find one it’s worth big bucks.

    • The picture shows Forrest Fenn’s water falls, if anyone wants to see it.

      That’s an excellent article, kudos to Michael.

      • I think he said it once before in an today show interview? Not really sure?
        Does it matter?

        • Yea, I think it matters.
          I look at this way. If he’s not going to be giving out anymore clues then I would have to think that he’s already given out enough to find the treasure & that some searcher(s) are very close to finding it. Why else would he stop now?

          • Hey Jake
            I do not know what caused f to say that but I know my dad started at 85 with dementia and it would make him so mad because he had such a hard time trying to remember things and then putting them together to talk. Know he doesn’t now me or my sisters and he only talks about the time in war when he was in the Army.
            Timothy A All is IMHO

          • Jake, did FF say recently that the chest may be found sooner than he thought? Say it with a note of surprise?

            It seemed IMO suggesting he got information (maybe on this blog), that some people are getting close, maybe solving his poem. . .

      • Jake I don’t have the links but I think he has said that on a few occasions. Kind of like him saying he’s not going to write any more books; and then he writes another.

        • OK, Thanks Goofy,
          Seems like par for the course.
          He can & has changed his mind on occasion.
          He can do that, it’s his creation.
          Thanks Seeker, I’m not going to dig to find it. I trust you guys & will take this comment for what it’s worth at this time.

      • Jake,
        Like Goofy said, he has repeated that more than once… and If I’m not mistaken, it goes back as far as the useless clue debate… shortly after fenn’s last clue on the ‘today show’ if that helps narrow down a time line if you want to search for the comment. Best “guess” very late 2013 or early 2014.

      • Hey Jake
        I’ve been here 3 years and it’s the first time that I can recall that FF sounded a little upset and I’m sure that the loss of Randy is playing in on this a little bit.

        IMHO Timothy A.

    • “I hid the treasure in a place that is not especially difficult to reach.”

      So, what does he mean by not “especially” difficult to reach?
      Does this mean that it is somewhat difficult to reach?

      • He has in the past said, he hid the chest so it would be difficult to find… and… no one would stumble across it. why would this ‘especially’ difficult mean anything different to what he has said prior?

        Does this sound like ” look quickly down , your quest o cease , but tarry scant with marvel gaze , ….”
        to mean just pick up the chest and high tail it outta ther’

        He’s gonna make you work for it. Not only to locate it, but to “retrieve” it.

        • Seeker,
          To me there is a difference to “difficult to find”.
          This statement could be relating to the 9 clues in the poem & cover a great distance.

          Now if you look at this statement you should see why I think this way.
          “I hid the treasure in a place that is not especially difficult to reach.”

          Do you see any difference there?
          I do.
          Let me know, I will spell it out for you if you do not see it.

          Ya, he’s gonna make you work for it. No doubt.
          It does not sound like this to me: ” look quickly down , your quest o cease , but tarry scant with marvel gaze , ….”

        • Seeker,

          I think your train of thought is very accurate. While many read the poem as a more literal and simple solve based on words and geography, it is quite evidently obvious that no one, including myself, has been correct so far. I agree, I do not think for a second that anyone is going to find the treasure by accident. The solve is precise.

          TSHB

      • Hi Jake. I’ll betcha cinq sou “not especially difficult to reach” could roughly describe/equate to how easy/difficult it was for FF’s dad to drive a tow-along into the woods to hide the family’s summer cabin/camping gear over the winter. Off the beaten path and hidden, yet in plain sight. It’s like so easy and obvious – but only if you know where to look and how to get there. Granted, there were not nearly as many visitors to the YNP area during the war years to stumble upon the tow-along, but I think the concept applies.

      • Jake, I think he just means that if you know where the chest is hidden, you will encounter no special difficulties in walking right to it. No class 5 rock-climbing, no whitewater rafting, no scuba diving. The difficulties are mental, not physical.

        • Some of that makes sense Zap,
          I don’t think the place is dangerous in a sense of needing to do the things you said.
          I can’t agree on “special difficulties” because it’s too vague.
          There are physical difficulties involved as well so I cannot agree with all being mental.

          His wording tells me that the place he hid it is somewhat difficult to get to & something needs to be done to retrieve it like Seeker stated.

          Would it be safe to say, that, if you have to figure out a phrase in the poem, that it is a clue that needs to fit in order?
          This question is for all.

        • If he hid the chest in a place that no one would have any reason to go to, it could be surprisingly simple to retrieve and yet safe from inadvertent discovery. Your open question seems to be addressing the issue of clues being in order in the poem. He has said the clues are contiguous, so that left him room to trip people up by making them think that reading the poem normally you will encounter the clues in the order you physically encounter them. But he could have put them in reverse order and they’d still be contiguous. That said, I’m 99% sure I know what WWWH is, and the answer to that question works best as a starting point, not one near the end of your journey.

          • Zap,
            I think the reason why people don’t go to the hiding spot is they don’t know about it.
            I don’t think it will be easy to retrieve it.
            Yes it’s possible the clues could be from the bottom up, but I tend to dismiss this considering the realistic nature of his thinking.
            No one can be 99% sure of anything except for death & even that is speculative considering the facts.
            I was getting you until that comment. LOL
            Most of us think we know where WWH is but let’s face it we don’t until……
            Let’s stay in SW Montana though. I think we have a fighting chance there together.

          • OK, maybe I’ll back off to 98%, but honestly there is only one reasonable WWWH… at least in the Rockies. If Fenn picked another, the chest might as well be in NM or some other state I will never search. 😉 From your comments, I get the feeling that while we’re both in the right state, it’s for different reasons.

          • 98% Zap,
            I was thinking more like 50%.
            Either way, we are in the same general area & I think that raises our chances to 72.23%
            Our reasons are similar but a little different & makes me think you have done your homework.
            What do you think about the microcrystaline wax on the olive jar?

          • Hi Jake — I haven’t really given the olive jar sealing wax much thought other than that Forrest was trying to be thorough as far as protecting the contents from water. Seems like everything else in the chest is fairly water-resistant, though I suppose he could have bagged some items in Ziplocks. I don’t think he did this for reasons of submersion; my feeling is it was more for basic protection of items against rain/moisture/condensation occasionally making its way inside the chest.

          • Zap & any,
            I’m just wondering why Forrest said the wax becomes brittle when cold?
            That doesn’t make any sense to use this type of wax considering the very low temps in the Rockies. The research I found stated microcrystalline wax does not become brittle at low temperature.
            Why would he say it would intentionally knowing it doesn’t?

  48. I used to read more books than my eyes could handle. Usually, when I was following a particular author I would purchase their latest work as soon as it was made available. I can’t think of a time when I did not read the dust jacket or any intro leading into the meat of the story. TTOTC has a fine dust cover with some descriptive words that I assume are there for the person who is about to read said book.
    The second sentence is in quotations. At first glance one might assume that Forrest is actually saying these words but who knows… ” Unlock the clues that are scattered among these pages and you can go home with a bronze chest that is so full of gold and precious jewelry that it’s almost too heavy for one person to carry.”
    Now, it is obvious that it is another person writing this, but, why the quotations? Apparently this person is quoting someone…. could it be Forrest?
    The first sentence states that the memoir contains a true story about a secret treasure and the outrageous dare.
    Over and out…

  49. Interesting news article. I don’t particularly agree with the term lucre. Don’t think it is appropriate in this case.

    • Hey TimW
      I AGREE ….. there is nothing dishonorable or distasteful about the Chase..

  50. So…how old is “old” and likewise, how new is “new?”

    “Alone in there” suggests that there is a difined boundary surrounding the X spot. Once at the X spot, one could say “I found the TC inside of X and not inside of Y or Z. So, what is the “boundary” that surrounds spot X that can be so defined so that one could clearly say “I went IN there alone?” Could be a NP (though I don’t think), could be private/fenced property, a certain Section, Indian Res, etc? Could “alone” also be tied to “brave?” Does “alone” suggest that most people would go in “there” with a partner, family, owner, guest – because of fear, nervousness, or need for an invite?

    …sooo much to think about…ugh!

    • Jmelis;

      Here are my thoughts on “In there and alone”.

      The first line is a warning, and a clue:
      As = Since – or Owing to the fact that: Therefore: “Since I have gone alone in there” (sic)…you too should be alone when you go INto where the treasure is hidden…or at least not be observed.
      IN THERE is very important because it prepares the searcher for things to come. Once a searcher has found a location where he/she thinks the treasure is located, The searcher must know that he/she must look IN that area, not just AT that area. The searcher has to be IN a specific area or place.
      In my solve, by solving the clues, I determined that “IN THERE” meant four different things.
      Things like, In a particular area or place, In a forest, In a smaller group of trees, and in a group of rocks. (Not my actual four)

      Hope this helps you and/or others.

      Good luck in your search, and TRY to STAY SAFE.

      JD

    • Jmeils,

      Interesting. I have always thought that some of the words in the poem were strange in that they didn’t belong together. For example “As I have gone alone in there….and with my treasures bold” This always seemed strange to me in that typically when bold is used in a sentence as a descriptor, it usually relies on the concurrence of others. Now, I do understand that it can be merely used as an adjective to describe his efforts, but still if you were alone how bold is it for a person like FF, who grew up in the woods to walk into them and hide it. To me seems that bold is there to say that there was some risk associated with his actions, the possibility of being caught or something. Anyhow, just thoughts.

      TSHB

      • Hi All,
        I am going to Telluride & Villa Grove Co. in a few weeks.
        Not for treasure hunting .But, I could put in a day or two if someone has a safe ,reasonable place they want me to check out that will be on the route from Los Angeles. Sorry if this sounds like a dumb offer. I am strong enough and reliable.I want to make up a test route from some of the many choices just to see how it feels with a boots on the ground point of view. I am there anyway,it is very pretty, i like easy safe hikes .
        KG

        • KrisG, I have a Colorado site you may check, easy in and out.

          Do you drive from LA on I-15 to I-70 into Colorado and then down (south) to Telluride?
          Or do you take I-40 across to New Mexico and then go up (north) to Telluride?

          My site is a day trip drive, out and back, from Telluride.

          I don’t know how to connect. I give Dal permission to give you my email, if that works. Or vice versa or whatever.

          How do I know you are going to share some Indulgence with me … just suppose the best case outcome finding what we seek? Let’s not be meek about money questions. I don’t want to inherit the Earth, I want to share in the prize. (-:

          • Hi Wendi, I am not so computer smart and not sure how this works. Hope you see this. I am going the 40. Depending where your location is I could leave a day early and go up the 70 .You can make an offer what you think is fair.Keep in mind it is likely a long road of selling, commissions and taxes and what to keep.If Mr Fenn does want that bracelet back i can give it from my share.Without having meet Dal I adore him ,whatever he thinks is best for us making contact. I look forward to solve the mystery and meeting Mr Fenn and Dal.

          • Hi Kristen. (I’m a guy, so there’s no confusion about that (my name), right up front.)

            My site is a side trip off of I-70. BOTG time would take maybe 30 minutes after parking at the trailhead to hike in to a specific landmark, (a rock outcrop or bench, photos available on the web to preview). Then examine the area as time and interest allows, (within 200 feet (?) off the trail probably the downhill side along the rock face). No water to wade through. 30 minutes back to the car. Two hour drive to Telluride.

            If you have such time for such detour.

            I’m looking forward to solving the mystery, too. But I should say my faith in my site-guess has been challenged lately and might not survive from the discussion here of the Mammoth Lakes/Pinion Terrace area of north YNP. Yet my solve is all I’ve got, so I gotta believe. If you are willing to invest your time risking to come up empty handed at the end, well, now, let’s get started.

            Here’s how. (Keeping GINORMOUS praise and thanks to Dal in his tending this admirable website.) Use my alias address email to send me yours. Goodnessgeek and it’s at gmail. The rest of you stay out of this. And prepare a succulent serving of humble pie to serve Kristen and me when our results become known and laughable.

            (KG, I’m not preconceiving what legal lawyerly loophole entanglement papers and procedures attach to the chest. I’d cross those bridges when/if we come to them. First get the chest. And get in the car. Maybe call me. THEN it’s real. Really, possession is nine-tenths of the law. We can figure it out dead-reckoning from that point.)

            … bread upon the water …

          • I am not too worried about empty hands,its my sore butt from long drives that make me crazy. 2 hours from Telluride.. let me think about it. Would a flashlight be useful but not required at the spot?

          • Mr Fenn at some point said bring a flashlight and a sandwich-maybe just fatherly advice. I could go into my garage during the daylight hours to find a hammer without the light on but it sure would help. I always hike with some kind of snack and water. I do not do long hikes that are far from prepared food .Do you find it interesting he did not mention water.A much more important element for survival. Sorry if this has already been hashed over before.

      • Bold and bald share in the etymology of each other, so maybe ff is saying that he went in there when he was bald, meaning ‘there’ is not in his youthful years in Montana. A long shot from my armchair view. OS2

        • Anything is possible OS2. I was thinking of bold in the Merriam Webster sense of the word. Meaning that there had to be some risk associated with where the chests resting place is, again I’m only speculating.

          TSHB

          • Hi TSHB, Yes, on first reading of treasures ‘bold’ the basic dictionary definitions prevail. But by the 10th or 20th reading, one looks for covert meanings of words.

            Your assessment is interesting, that risk and/or a secondary observer is the confirmative of boldness.

            My take on bold/bald is more related to its use in the book. I think, the word bold only appears in the words of other authors (stout hearted men lyrics, and, grey gowned women poem) whereas, Fenn writes several times about bald, both in the book and in the Scrapbooks I think.

            The first was that paragraph in the preface of TTOTC about Ike & brains, where bald is used as a reference to aging. But it then it leads into that strange shower/skylight story & a design deficiency. Hunh? In the preface that seemed to me to be either an inside joke, a shout-out to Peggy, or an aberration. A trout or a red herring.

            So many mountains are called Baldy.

          • Why are Bald Eagles called bald when they obviously have white feathers on their heads. The name actually came from an old English word – piebald- which meant white headed rather than hairless.
            Maybe bald fits after all?

          • OS2,

            Your insight is always well received. I enjoy that your approach is always very logical, informed and well thought out.
            I too have been reading the poem for a little over two years now myself and I have also worked through some of the similarities/parallels between the poem and the subtleties in the TTOFC.
            However, I have always felt that the first stanza of the poem (his intro) is more of a mission statement, by where he is introducing the reader to the quest. With that said, I have also believed that there are subtle hints that can be derived from this stanza. My assumption/guess on the use of the word BOLD is that it feels wrong in the context of its use and the ability of the man hiding the treasure. When applying the various meanings of the word bold, in the context of his statement, they have not yet played out to me in a way that I feel I’m having an “I’m on to something moment”. The literal understanding of the word in the context of the sentence is the only thing that makes sense to me so far. But, like everyone else, I have nothing more than theories. 🙂

            TSHB

    • To me, “in there” means out of the car and up a trail IN to the ‘outdoors’ or ‘wilderness’ or ‘forest.’ “In there” is simply ‘along a path’ away from the parked car.

      Suppose you were carrying two million dollars of gold away from your car. Or you heard of someone walking around with that much treasure. Might you think there should be an armored car or a security guard nearby and aware of the hiding place?

      When I have a hundred bucks in my pocket walking down a street, I think there’s a risk. To feel Forrest’s feeling of risk, imagine holding two million dollars.

      To my reading, stanza 1 just says forget about thinking there is a second person associated in some manner who knows the secret place.

      — I say “up a trail” and then thought if it is downhill from the car, that would be the way to go with a heavy load. Hide it. Then, coming back to the car is uphill, but it’s easier with an empty pack.

  51. Forrest will be 86 in a few days. I was thinking that maybe some of the more artistically inclined among us would like to make cards for Forrest. Then we can post a page with all the cards on it on his birthday….August 22nd. So if you’d like to make a jpg birthday card to post on the blog…send it to me anytime before the 22nd. I’ll post them all on a page or two on his birthday…

    Here is an example of what a birthday card might look like…
    Your’s will be better because you have more skill..
    and because you have more imagination…
    and because you think outside the box…
    http://dalneitzel.com/happy-eighty-six/

  52. Be careful folks, sitting on my tailgate eating some raisin bran I walked up to the passenger side of my truck and was rattled suddenly awake. Yep, a nice one coiled up on top of where I had stepped a few minutes before and was about to step just now. He was a bit peed off and showed his displeasure with authority, not as big as his bad ass momma who I had met near here a few weeks ago, still he was fat and healthy and maybe 4 feet in length. When I heard him shake his tail I was reminded of the difference in sound between this one and his BIG momma. So it would seem that this area has a few surprises yet to behold. I also had a crazy thought about who I could blame had I been bitten, since I was there to both walk my dog and look for treasure, I was sure the responsibility was theirs. I did get a couple of good pictures. This one was real light in color matching the sandy soil. The other big momma was much darker which matched her darker basaltic environment. Natural camouflage to match they’re surroundings. I have pictures of both I will try and share.

  53. Has FF ever said if the Poems solve can be completed without actually going out in the field first. I.E. can we searchers know where the chest rests, before we ever book a plane ticket? Was just curious.

    TSHB

    • Hi TSHB: no, Fenn has never said definitively one way or the other. There are hints that you can, and hints that you can’t. For instance, the response to the little girl from India question on the MysteriousWritings webpage ~suggests~ that an end-to-end solve from home is not possible:

      “Your treasure hunt has inspired people worldwide to discover history, culture and nature, but many people, (even in the US) might be deterred because they don’t live near the Rockies or can’t afford to travel. Should they be deterred? Can a little girl in India, who speaks good English, but only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains, work out where the treasure is? And would she be confident as she solves each clue, or only confident when she has solved them all?”

      Fenn’s answer: “I wish I had another treasure to hide in the Appalachians. The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues. There are many disabled people who are deeply into maps and geography, and they are having a lot of fun.”

      But I suspect many have interpreted an earlier comment from Fenn to suggest a complete solution actually is possible prior to putting BOTG:

      “I would like to reiterate: Please go back to the poem and look at maps for your answers. Not every noun in TTOTC is a hint. If you can’t solve the first clue you should not spend your money searching. My guess is that the person who is successful will very quietly solve the clues and walk to the treasure with a smile on their face.”

      I tend to believe that many of the clues are unsolvable without physically being there, and that this second comment above does not explicitly state that you will solve *all* the clues prior to leaving home, just enough to get you to the right area. In fact, the bit about “very quietly” solving the clues might be a hint that you are on site when solving some of them (and not wanting to draw attention to yourself).

      • ZAP,

        Thanks, that was where my thoughts were trending as well. I had spent the better part of late 2014 looking at the poem as if it were a polyalphabetic or classical cipher. I did have some interesting results, but truly nothing that I felt confident enough in or developed enough hard evidence to support.

        I also, have been of the theory that you need to solve some of the clues first prior to completing the quest in the field, not sure how many, but my opinion has been that you need to find the state first, then where ww’s halt, followed by the “canyon down”. It is at this point where I have had a gut feeling that you needed to be BOTG.

        Anyhow thank you for the information, it helps. I’ve been getting all Scotland Yard as of late, putting the poem, facts, FF’s extra clues, interviews and all other solid info into an organized and chronological manner to analyze.

        I have a solve for the state and www’s halt that has some very strong supporting evidence based in fact, it is after there that I am struggling. I have some ideas, but still working through them.

        Best of luck and thanks again!
        TSHB

      • Zap, is the pgh. “I would like to reiterate — smile on their face.” an ff quote or a paraphrase? I’m interested in the whole context. Can you give me the source & date? Thanks, OS2

        • It should be a direct Fenn quote since I don’t store hearsay or paraphrased statements in my database. It may take me a while to track down the source, but I’m betting Seeker finds it before I do!

          • Honestly Zap, This would be a new one on me as well… some of it sounds like a video I heard, but in its full presentation you have, I can’t be sure …

            It almost sounds like two or three attempted quotes combined. But you have me curious, so I’ll help look for it. I’d be very interested in That ‘map’ quote.

          • Zap, I took a few minutes and found the exact wording you used… dating back to 2014 [so far]. However I have not located the source of the quote. Then again I’m finding posting that fenn said a child could walk up to the chest as well with some of these early postings… which we know is not accurate.

            Forrest,
            You said in the past that the chest is not in a dangerous place; yet searchers are searching along Cliffside’s, raging water, and other seemingly dangerous places. Could you please elaborate or qualify your statement in which you said” The chest is not in a dangerous place”
            Thanks
            Edward
            Edward, thanks for the question.
            The treasure is not hidden in a dangerous place in the normal definition of the word, realizing that there probably is no place on this planet that is safe under all conditions. Bloggers have quoted me as saying that a child could walk up to the treasure. I don’t think that’s an accurate quote because a three year old girl would have a problem without some help. Remember, I was about 80 when I hid the chest, and had to make two trips.f

            I not sure but I think Toby’s site might help… seeing this goes back to 2014 or early and on a video.

          • Zaphod, This is what I have so far. Hope that helps or rings a bell.

            Forrest Fenn
            on: June 6, 2014, 3:30 pm
            Quote:

            “OK folks,
            Dal just appraised me of the panic comments on this blog. It’s time for everyone to sit down in the shade, lean back, have a sip of sarsaparilla, and try to relax. The treasure is safely hidden where I left it. If I ever discover that it has been found I will announce it in big letters so everyone can see.

            Several years ago Pam told me that the treasure had been found because it was not where she thought it should be. She is one of about 150 people who have made that claim.

            I would like to reiterate: >>Please go back to the poem and look at maps for your answers<<. Not every noun in TTOTC is a hint. If you can’t solve the first clue you should not spend your money searching."

          • Credit to you, too, Seeker — you had most of Forrest’s quote from 2014. You just left off the last part about the successful searcher solving the clues quietly and walking to the treasure with a smile on their face. I think that last sentence is very important to include because it’s the source of so many people believing that they can solve all the clues from home. But in context, it’s clear that Forrest never said you could solve *all* the clues as an armchair searcher.

        • Are you guys looking for this quote ………

          Nevertheless, the story about my treasure chest is true, and if it doesn’t stir your spirit then I hope at least it bring a smile in one of your dreams.

          It’s first paragraph of the preface, in ttotc.

          • This quote we are looking for the source…
            “I would like to reiterate: Please go back to the poem and look at maps for your answers. Not every noun in TTOTC is a hint. If you can’t solve the first clue you should not spend your money searching. My guess is that the person who is successful will very quietly solve the clues and walk to the treasure with a smile on their face.”

      • Zap et al,
        Don’t forget:
        Moby Dickens interview Nov 2 2013,
        Minute 39 “ Q: Is it possible to locate the treasure chest without ever leaving your computer and Google earth”
        A: “No…. it isn’t…..did I really say that?” f He seems to regret saying this and adds “there’s not a picture of the treasure chest on Google Earth…… because it doesn’t go down far enough”

        Not definitive, but perhaps another indication that BOG may be needed.

        • Colokid,
          It also is in the way the questions are worded.

          “Locate the treasure”

          I wish the question would have asked… can the locations of what the clues refer to be found – understood prior to a search?

          • Sure. It’s possible to sift out a lot of different meanings to questions and answers as we sit back and analyse them with as much time as we want. But I think it’s important to consider the venue and time frame in which the question was asked.

            If a question is posed to Fenn on MW or e-mail and he has weeks, days, or months in which to craft an answer, is it the same as live audience Q&A?

            F’s a clever guy but how fast does he respond to a live question, and does he have time to parse all the possible different interpretations of the language?

            I think the searcher needs to consider live questions differently, but as I said, not definitive.

            To my knowledge, this may be the only Q&A we have where the question posed by Sleepy was directly asked and answered.

          • Colokid,

            In reference to the subject matter… I think you know why the answer was such. Just look at the above comment in the thread.
            As to the ‘chest, treasure’ I would think this would be an automatic answer by fenn. The location of the treasure [chest] is not visible or can easily be seen, especially using this type of technology ~ GE.
            Add in other comments… hid the chest so it would be difficult to find… no one will stumble upon it etc. doesn’t answer the question of knowing beforehand or IF the clues can be understood or deciphered prior.
            The same can be said for other question such as little indy [ or anyone ] having only certain information. Including the most recent Q&A that limited the information… such as not knowing of the ‘9 clues’ for example.

            Most questions asked seem to relate to folks wanting to know about the location of the ‘treasure or chest’ and when asked about the clues… they tend to leave out vital information. It seem to me…imo… that these question can be answered completely honestly and still dance around the intended question.

            With in my mind was the reason most were answered… to make us think.
            Sure Indy had the poem, but did she know there are 9 clues? Is a map of he RM’s in the US all that is needed or maybe a Map of the entire range is needed or the North America continent, maybe even a world map ~ such as GE.

            What I’m saying is, we take it for granted that what we know of, and dismiss it from a question, is not needed in a question.

      • Thanks for the amazing efforts in tracking down the information regarding my original question. As I mentioned above in my reply to Zap, I was already figuring that it could not be solved from the armchair only, I was just wondering if this was ever asked to FF and if so, what was his response.

        Thanks again to all for researching the facts.

        TSHB

  54. SEEKER et al:

    http://dalneitzel.com/2014/05/26/scrapbook-seventy-three/#comment-40517

    “I would like to reiterate: Please go back to the poem and look at maps for your answers. Not every noun in TTOTC is a hint. If you can’t solve the first clue you should not spend your money searching. My guess is that the person who is successful will very quietly solve the clues and walk to the treasure with a smile on their face.”

    sigh………. 🙂

      • Goofy, What I did like was your thoughts in part of post you wrote on that day:
        I also find it interesting that Dal is writing your biography. Is he getting the same information you wrote in your auto-biography that is hidden with the chest? Does this mean you don’t think anyone will find the chest, therefore, no one will read your biography?

        Since you said Dal is not getting any special search information, even though you are giving him detailed info about your life, and you have said your family is welcomed to search, I conclude that knowing details about your life will not help much, if at all, with the solution……..

        _____________________________________________

        I have been wondering from the very start if the poem relates to fenn at all. How does one get around family and close friends etc. of having an advantage?

        In-part, this was the reason I asked the question, Who is ‘ i ‘ in the poem, or more to the fact… who is I in the first stanza? It was also why I asked about the contents of the chest having anything to do with the place the chest lays in wait. imo… straightforwards is not what most readers hope it to be. That is not saying the poem is not straightforwards… just something a little different… maybe, this is why the first clue is a must know, and why those at the first two clues didn’t understand the significance of where they were.

        Just rambling and rumbling.

        • Well Seeker, Fenn has talked about the blank spot archeologists have not knowing about the owner of the artifacts they find. Which is why I think he included his biography with the chest. Fenn intended the chest to be found by someone in the future.

          As far as “I” in the first stanza; Fenn wrote the poem so “I” is referring to himself. I know this is way to simple and somehow illogical to you but that’s my opinion.

          I think we agree this is way more difficult than most think it is. The first two clues are straight forward and can be found from home; which is why so many have solved the first two clues. The remainder of the clues must be solved on location which is why the girl from India, the Arab kid from Marrakech, or the boy from Texas can only solve the first two clues.

          The searcher will proceed with confidence after figuring out the remainder of the clues on location. Which is why, like you said, the first clue is a must know.

          Just my opinion.

          • You know I’m have to disagree with “I” as only being fenn. So I’ll ask he obvious… why would fenn state “I” in stanza one as himself hiding his “trove / treasure” and ask later the question to why he [ i ] must go and leave his “trove” for all to seek? that seems a bit redundant, does it not?
            Two thinks come to mind here, treasure and trove are not the same thing, and possibly not the same ownership. Or the answer to the question should be a clue.

            Treasures; are possessions important to the owner, and not always of value to others. [ yes I do know of the other definitions as well ]
            Trove; is of value [to most] with no ownership.
            While both dictionary meanings are close… could the possibility that the treasures are of another? and the other is know has simply a human or a narrative, which relates to ‘I’ being knowledge of self… who we are as humans? Thinking along the lines of geography, with is the study of the surface of the lands and it’s “inhabitants” In inhabitants be ourselves in knowledge of self?
            There has been many writings about the usage of I.
            Is simply knowledge of I to only mean knowledge of “ones self” [ one person ] the only usage? or could it be that the reason “As I have…” was not written to be ‘As I’ve..’ especially when There’ll, you’ve, “I’ve” was used in the poem.

            Why was this line not written as~ The answers I already know, ” I have ” done it tired… not used, as in the first stanza? The subtle differences to you and me [ i ], can make all the difference in the world to the poem.
            This even begs the question is “you” to be meant only singular?

            Just food for thought.

    • Excellent detective work as usual, Locolobo! I’m happy to see I wasn’t blowing smoke with that quote — I was pretty sure I had cut & pasted it from somewhere legit! I will add the attribution link to my database in case the question ever comes up again…

    • LOL, I was close…had the right date / time stamp.

      What I see in this is, The comment of ‘know beforehand.’ We may not know all the answers prior, but we should have a very good idea of what to expect…

      • Are you referring to the display, going to sleep? I thought I handled that fairly well. Do I leave everything running?

    • Well, the above was supposed to go down as a reply to inthechaseto. But thanks for the ff cite Loco.

        • Inthechaseto… Then I was wrong, forget I said it.

          Just a bit earlier I had put up a post on The Book thread, and thought you were referencing it because it was about the same sentence that you mentioned that was in the preface of TTOTC.

          But I have another question if anyone wants to discuss it… its about the mixed message of understanding the poem then going with confidence directly to the TC … OR… having to have BOG in order to interpret latter clues in the poem .

          EX: when you get to the blaze… is it a mark that confirms you are on the right path… OR… does it also give you information to go forward with?

          If the prior, then maybe the poem can be solved from an armchair. If the latter, then no.

          • OS2 –

            You are asking a tough question to answer……..

            It all depends on what you think the blaze is. Does the blaze have to be there at the spot. Maybe not. In that case – one would have to find it first, from home.

            Is there a blaze at the spot…….IMO yes.

            Are there things to follow once you are on the ground that you didn’t solve from home – IMO yes.

            Can all of the above work together…..yes.

  55. I am on a vacation to the Grand Canyon – from there going back to NM to indulge in my solve. Where “warm” waters halt and all the other clues just seem to flow; IMO JMHO; So don’t need anyone to say; told you so. But if upon request I will post my solve after I searched the small area; but a big area.

      • Thank you JD! Our first priority is vacation, second to go to a search area: But that is second to my vacation. So my search area is really – can we make it on this trip?

  56. If the “little girl from India” has a computer and the Internet available to her, as
    well as the poem and the book TTOTC, she may be able to solve the poem . . .
    but will be at a disadvantage, compared to many searchers, if she hasn’t been raised in typical American culture. Some knowledge of this could be quite
    helpful.

    The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

    Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe.

    • Andrew, it doesn’t matter where she is from. She could be a boy from Texas and still couldn’t do it.

      Dal, I am sure you remember that the little girl from India was the lark of Jenny Kile, who inserted it into a question she asked me. It might just as well have been a boy from Waxahatchee, where my father was born, or an Arab kid from Marrakech, a city that Winston Churchill said was the most beautiful place in the world. He was an excellent artist and I once sold his oil painting of that city. We are getting a lot of mileage from that little girl from India, doncha think?

      http://dalneitzel.com/2016/02/18/odds-n-ends-about-fenns-treasure-hunt-5/#comment-124066

      • Thanks for posting that, Goofy.

        I think my bubble just popped. I had a new meaning to the LGFI the other day, and it’s accurate according to the original statement. Now I see that it doesn’t apply.

        I really can’t afford the trip anyways, so I guess this most likely saves me from digging into a deeper hole of debt while I struggle with the great American dream. That’s sarcasm, by the way.

        • After reading Dal’s post on the validity of Fenn’s Treasure, I thought I’d elaborate a little on my comment here.

          I don’t blame Forrest for this situation with the LGFI. I can see what he was saying.
          I took a different meaning from it that he didn’t think of when saying what he said. I think that must be a common thing when we get into the depths of all this. People can put a lot of twists to words, take things all sorts of ways, and perceive what wasn’t intended, and that happens all the time.

          From my perspective, what I was getting at here is that I had a great solve based on my own logic. Then I used my logic and came up with looked really good but proved out to be all wrong with this LGFI thing.
          That’s left me rethinking the strength of my logic. And downgrading the strength of my solve. Just enough to reconsider the worth of a trip compared to where I’d be if I failed.

          I haven’t lost faith in Forrest’s honesty, his integrity, or his intelligence, or anything like that.
          I’ve lost a degree of faith in my solve, that’s all.

          If I had the money I’d go in an instant. If I was younger and had my old vigor I’d go with camping gear or just sleep in the car. But I have to be practical because I’m just not in a good place financially. And my arthritis in my “good” hip (the other one was replaced 18 years ago) and the issues with my legs as a result of years of too little activity add to the complications.
          It’s just a lot of obstacles and not enough faith in my solve at the moment.

          I just thought I’d be clear on this.

  57. Random, but-
    His “ring the bell loudly” bell looks like it was molded on top of a Metamucil canister.
    😛 134

  58. Hey Dal?
    Just curious if you live on the Bellingham side or the tsunami side. I’m not worried about you–you’ll do fine I’m sure. It’s you servers that concern me

    😉

  59. Dal,

    Is there a character length for starting a thread ?

    Everyone else, here’s a teaser. Go to Wiki and search for “Free Four” by Pink Floyd.
    Is that a running man in a tree? Or could it be Tarzan?

    Free Four :
    “The memories of a man in his old age
    Are the deeds of a man in his prime.
    You shuffle in gloom of the sickroom
    And talk to yourself as you die”.

    And then you get an idea . . .

    Did you see that ?

    The Gold It’s in the . . .

    “Come on my friends,
    Let’s make for the hills.
    They say there’s gold but I’m looking for thrills.
    You can get your hands on whatever we find,
    Because I’m only coming along for the ride”.

    And jonesy1, if you’re admiring the batik, might I suggest you check out the crinoline line? It’ll look marvelous trimmed out with celanese as you tour Marrakech on your way to Kashmir.

    f said if we don’t know where we’re going, then any old trail will get us there. So I think we will go to India. Maybe we’ll meet a mahatma. How many know that mahatma is synonymous with “title-holder”?

    What can it hurt? It ain’t what we don’t know that gets us into trouble . . . Hey, how ’bout that Mark Twain guy?
    “mark twain” = twine = hint and string of words.

    “Hey mom, you seen my thesaurus? It was in my room . . ”
    “No Forrest, I haven’t. Now I wonder where the mailman is at . . .”

    ROLL TIDE

    • Interesting post ROLL TIDE;

      I found little that relates to the poem. I found it a disjointed grouping of thoughts, none of which seemed to relate to the search or the poem.

      I guess I am just an old fogie – but I didn’t get it.

      Regarding starting a thread – Only Dal (and possibly) Goofy can start a thread. If you have an idea that relates to the search email Dal, and he will consider it.

      P.S. Your post today was a lot more coherent.

      Good luck in your search and TRY to STAY SAFE

      JD

      • JD- Go back to the poem in the book and look closely at the front of the ford. It’s a map of an area. The children following the string are on a path. From the lower falls in yellowstone looking back at Uncle Toms trail, during the spring, the waterfall can be seen leaking under the trail. At the end of this trail is where i had found a mark in the tree similar to whats on the owl of athena coin, except they were upside down. I think they may be a reflection of another possible mark somewhere in area. There was also clearing not far up the trail that had pipes and concrete sticking out of the ground, like it had been bombed out. IMO

      • Seriously J.D. ?

        I gave you an old man who is facing death, who also just so happens to mention the ripe old age of 80 in the lyrics (if you read the whole thing instead of just what I posted).

        I then give you the flip side which describes someone who knows there is treasure ‘in them thar hills’, inviting everyone to come along on a treasure hunt and he tells them he is doing it all for the THRILL. He even tells them they can keep everything they find. (“If you can find it, you can keep it” f) “I give you title to the gold.”

        I showed you a runningman in a tree. Or, it could be Tarzan.

        The cover speaks for itself with “The Gold it’s in the . . .”
        ( hint of riches . . .)

        And I’ll leave you with this . . . “The ten most-asked-for songs of the week were played, starting at the bottom . . .
        Many times I’d win . . .”

        You just said yourself that f created a masterpiece and it still holds firm six years later. Would you allow then, that my interpretation of that statement would be that you find the poem is not Coherent as well, and can only be seen as “a disjointed grouping of thoughts?

        Since none of us are “getting it” ?

        • As I said – I am just an old Fogie who doesn’t get it. As an old fogie, I look for answers in the poem, and in Forrest’s books not in other outside materials.

          As I said, Good luck, hope you find all you seek and TRY to STAY SAFE

          JD

  60. Thanks Dal and Goofy for tolerating this exclusively off-topic thread. This, is very much so. It is about the educational adventure we may have after entertaining ourselves with looking for the wonderful chest of riches.

    I have just now received permission for a *site inspection* with the qualification that it is also a family geologic field trip with me as the know-it-all.

    Ruh Rho *panic mode on*

    I invite input.
    OK, armchair topic possibles:

    The Absarka volcano supergroup the Yellowstone carves through
    &
    the volcanic spew from them that ultimately petrified whole forests

    the chemistry and active movement of Mammoth terraces

    obsidian cliffs, what is the geology of that glass (asking myself, chime in)

    grand canyon: I don’t know about the geology of this to know if the detour is worth it (chime in)

    The hotspot/geysers I can describe OK i think (tips welcome–there seem to be a lot of them but where is your preference to visit?) (or stay)

    SO. Input on interesting and accessible geologic features I have missed is invited. (Just thought of one–the hoodoos)

    *panic mode off*

    After all this thinking, I realize I have utterly omitted the rich cultural history available to convey. Teepee rings…. The Indian way of life I know only from the invader’s writings. OK, one subject at a time, but thoughts welcome.

  61. All,

    Received my September issue of Nat Geo last night and in it was a story titled “Losing the Grand Canyon”. A good story of a team of hikers and conservationists hiking the 650 + miles east to west through the canyon. What stood out in this article was an excerpt from a book titled “Desert Solitaire” by Edward Abbey.

    “in the first place you can’t see anything from a car; you’ve got to get out of the goddamed contraption and walk, better yet crawl, on hands and knees, over the sandstone and through the thornbrush and cactus. When traces of blood begin to mark your trail you’ll see something, maybe. Probably not.”

    I immediately downloaded the book and the preface/introduction eerily mirror’s TTOTC intro in its style and verbiage. The novel is centered around Edwards time spent as a park ranger in the Arches National Park during the late 1950’s.

    So far it is a very interesting read.

    Edward abbey was a very interesting character:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Abbey

    Excerpt:

    Edward Abbey died on March 14, 1989,[35] at the age of 62, in his home in Tucson, Arizona. His death was due to complications from surgery; he suffered four days of esophageal hemorrhaging, due to esophageal varices, which is a recurrent problem with one group of veins.[36] Showing his sense of humor, he left a message for anyone who asked about his final words: “No comment.” Abbey also left instructions on what to do with his remains: Abbey wanted his body transported in the bed of a pickup truck, and wished to be buried as soon as possible. He did not want to be embalmed or placed in a coffin. Instead, he preferred to be placed inside of an old sleeping bag, and requested that his friends disregard all state laws concerning burial. “I want my body to help fertilize the growth of a cactus or cliff rose or sagebrush or tree.” said the message. For his funeral, Abbey stated “No formal speeches desired, though the deceased will not interfere if someone feels the urge. But keep it all simple and brief.” He requested gunfire and bagpipe music, a cheerful and raucous wake, “[a]nd a flood of beer and booze! Lots of singing, dancing, talking, hollering, laughing, and lovemaking.”[36][37]

    A 2003 Outside’ article described how his friends honored his request:

    The last time Ed smiled was when I told him where he was going to be buried,” says Doug Peacock, an environmental crusader in Edward Abbey’s inner circle. On March 14, 1989, the day Abbey died from esophageal bleeding at 62, Peacock, along with his friend Jack Loeffler, his father-in-law Tom Cartwright, and his brother-in-law Steve Prescott, wrapped Abbey’s body in his blue sleeping bag, packed it with dry ice, and loaded Cactus Ed into Loeffler’s Chevy pickup. After stopping at a liquor store in Tucson for five cases of beer, and some whiskey to pour on the grave, they drove off into the desert. The men searched for the right spot the entire next day and finally turned down a long rutted road, drove to the end, and began digging. That night they buried Ed and toasted the life of America’s prickliest and most outspoken environmentalist.[38]

    Abbey’s body was buried in the Cabeza Prieta Desert in Pima County, Arizona, where “you’ll never find it.” The friends carved a marker on a nearby stone, reading:[39][40]

    EDWARD
    PAUL
    ABBEY
    1927—1989
    No Comment

    ENJOY!

    LitterateOne

    • LitterateOne: perhaps you missed my question above asking if you could explain your HoB reasoning for Bannock Ford. While I don’t believe the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone is the correct “canyon down”, I think your Bannock Ford explanation may have relevance to the solution I’ve been trying to thrash out. Thanks!

      • Zaphod73491,

        Brown to me is the chest, so if you are putting in below the home (resting place) of Brown you are either at an elevation lower than, downstream of or even south of the treasures final resting spot. I know this is not a popular theory but i have said it before; I believe that the most important part of the line “Put in below the home of Brown” is “put in” as it is the halt, direction change from taking it in the canyon down, and while most people are going down the canyon looking for Mr. Brown they sure are passing a whole lotta “put in’s”. Also i believe it is logical that Forrest would not refer to some obscure Brown that one could simply stumble upon in their research allowing them to bypass any and all previous clues.

        LitterateOne.

        • Thanks, LitterateOne. Yes, you’ve mentioned this interpretation of the home of Brown clue/non-clue before. I guess I thought you were just playing Devil’s Advocate with Gregory and had some specific reason why the actual name “Banning Ford” could be intepreted as a home of Brown.

          But as long as you’ve brought up your “Put in below” theory, for the would-be searcher isn’t this a bit of a Catch-22? If “Brown” is the chest (a perfectly reasonable assumption, btw), if you don’t know where it lies, how can you “put in below” it? There could be dozens of potential “put ins” along your canyon down, so how would you know you’ve selected the correct one?

          • Zaphod73491,

            Well the location of the “put in” would depend on your interpretation of previous and subsequent clue’s getting you to the its location; IE what is the distance from WWWH that is too far to walk, what is a place that is no place for the meek, or what is your creek and what does he mean by no paddle up that creek etc etc. I firmly believe that “if” you have the correct WWWH, and good grasp of geography and grammar that extrapolates and deciphers the clues, then the location of the “put in” and its importance may become more apparent.

            LitterateOne

    • One of my favorite Abbey quotes that I’ve tried to keep in mind during the chase is:

      “Language makes a mighty loose net with which to go fishing for simple facts, when facts are infinite.”

      • DaisyMae,

        There is science, logic, reason; there is thought verified by experience. And then there is California.

        LitterateOne.

  62. Lit,
    I like this story and can totally relate…my problem is, my wife will never adhere to my final wishes ! haha

    • Ken,

      Agreed, but nonetheless a great story and an interesting character he was.

      LitterateOne.

  63. KM,
    Back in those days, whatever hit the fan would have to go through the radiator.
    Either way, one persons crap is another persons treasure.
    I can see Forrest now sitting down with the artist & telling him to draw this here & that here.
    Seems deliberate to me & the fan blades need repairing.

    • That’s not what I meant. ; ) I cannot elaborate further, it will be deleted for off topic. Thanks for your reply. KM

      • Well KM,
        This is Odds N Ends. As long as it pertains to the chase including his books & statements, it should be fine to post.
        Then again if doesn’t’ have anything to do with the chase, then I would hold off & it’s probably not going to help anyone anyway & doesn’t belong here.

        • It has to do with the chase. Are you aware that CC is down? That was my best entertainment while I wait.

          • I saw/read on CC that admin/stephanie (whoever that is) got an email from F saying: The chest had been found. f (not retrieved) She thought it was a hoax/spam.
            Maybe someone sent their solve. I don’t really know what’s up but that’s what I know.

          • Aah hahahaha KM,
            Yea, OK.
            Forrest will let her know 1st cause she is more important than the many.
            Good luck with that!
            Sorry to hear you bit the blade.

          • I saw that this morning Iron Will. Should have taken a screen shot.

            I didn’t bite anything Jake. I just think it’s funny, read the blogs for entertainment right?

          • Yes KM,
            Entertainment purposes.
            You also have to preserve freedom of speech no matter how ridiculous some people are.
            But defamation of character needs to be addressed.

          • KM,

            There is a lot of subterfuge going on over there, that place is a mess! I believe someone has Hacked Steph’s site and email, possibly one who has been shunned and is now trying to seek retribution any way they can.

            LitterateOne.

          • Kedar’s Mom, when you say this morning can you say what time zone you mean? Are you west coast time zone? and if so could that have been around 10 am?

          • KM, I had been reading along there too this morning. It could have been around 10 CST when the site went down. From the way I interpreted it, the (spoof) email could have been from someone recently been banned from the site, and maybe this person sent the email posing/signing as f. Is that how you interpreted it? I don’t believe it actually was from f… Do you?

          • Wise one… could the time have been 3 hours earlier than right now? or do you think longer ago?

          • That’s what y’all get for going over there in the first place…nothing but ulcers…I do not think that Forrest would go to Chase Chat to announce to the world that the chest had been found. Really !!

          • IW, It could have been a little longer, but not by much, IMO. Why would the time element be important? Had you sent an email to f early this morning?

          • I just got an anonymous email (named anonymous@) about that time telling me to forget the Chase, it was soon to be over in taos….I deleted and blocked it and then scanned my computer to make sure no viruses were uploaded. Probably a load of garbage designed to misdirect, but just wondered the connection.

          • I don’t get emails from CC, but I got on to their site with no problem so I’m not sure why KM says the site is down?
            Also, I believe Dal or Goofy would be the 1st to know if the chest was found. Just MO.

    • CC is back up and this is the email K mom was referring too. Admin (steph) said she received this message shortly before her site went down

      —–Original Message—–
      From: Forrest Fenn
      To: tyblossom
      Sent: Wed, Aug 17, 2016 04:41 PM
      Subject: Chest

      The chest has been found. f

  64. @ eaglesaboutd, It was down this morning, why would I make that up? It is up now, just checked myself. Found and retrieved are two different things.

    • Not implying anything. I just checked, it was up, that’s all. My mail must be slow moving cause I just received your email stating the site was down.
      Apologies if you thought I meant something by it.

      • Thanks. I’m just getting a little impatient waiting. It feels like life has been on hold since Feb 13.

    • Oh I see all this went down yesterday. Guess it probably has no relevance to my anonymous email then. I’ve gotten about 3 of them in 2 years.

  65. Everything is in place. The metal detector and shovel have been added to my gear in the truck. Let’s hope there is some luck in search number 7. Sunday is the day. If not, I have a freezer full of crow pie stockpiled from March. Haven’t brought myself to eat it yet. I just feel it is there. If not, I have a really cool solve that will finally be posted on Monday. I need to get this solution off of my shoulders and move on. The anxiety is killing me. I need some Ativan and Haldol

  66. Always a lively and entertaining bunch you are, my fellow searchers!
    So, in the spirit of good fun and to keep the conversation lively and interesting…….Just for thought. I have long believed that the “chest” was hidden in Montana, MOPO. Anyhow, I have recently revisited my thought process as to why?
    As I’ve read and re-read the poem, like all of you, I started to think of the words differently then I have in the past. “As I have gone alone in there, And with my treasures bold, I can keep my secret where, And hint of riches new and old”.
    Now, while I know that logically many of the words almost seem an intro to the quest and what he has done, my mind started wondering, as it sometimes does. LOL
    When FF left the military and decided to move to Santa Fe, he went with nothing, no one and only a little bit of savings. Over the course of many years as you all know the story……. yada, yada. FF became the man he has been and is today. An adventurer, a renowned art dealer, a multi-millionaire, an archaeologist and an author, etc. etc….
    Could the first statement be an indicator to New Mexico? He went alone and the treasure I would imagine, most dear to him, was his family…..also having the dual meaning of the quest itself……….Just saying…..Thoughts?

      • I know this is not the place to ask. I was wondering if the person that goes by cowboy on your blog may be Forrest Fenn. I thought I read somewhere on here thats what some people had that thought.

        • Well Oden, if you believe every rumor or conspiracy theory here you’re in for a quite a ride.

          I’ve been accused of being Fenn several times; of working for Fenn and moving the chest when anyone got close. I told that guy I wasn’t moving the chest, I just keep it in my toolbox and use the gas money for beer.

          One fellow thought I was on the council of twelve in cahoots with the devil that was using the chest to steal peoples souls when they went into Ra Paulette’s cave to get the chest.

          You do know the chest is in Kansas don’t you?

          • Ok thanks for you input on the subject. Good luck looking in Kansas Guufy. I was wondering about Cowboys post and what the relevance of the date he posted about 7-15-2000.
            “cowboy on September 15, 2014 at 1:14 am said:
            THERE IS A TIME AND PLACE TO SAY TO ALL I MUST SAY .
            NOT STATING WHERE AND WHAT STATE TO BE!
            THE TIME IS SOON TO BE FOUND MAYBE FOR ANY ONE OF SOUND AND MIND . SOME ONE ORE HAS THE KEY TO THE PUZZLE IT IS LOGIC THAT IS BOLD FORREST HAS SPOKEN THE TRUTH. AS I HAVE MEEK IN THE WOOD
            IM AM THE ONE WITH A VINAGER HAT AND WOOL GLOVE, AND STOOD ON A HORSE NEXT TO THE BOX, AS DONE I COULD FEEL A BIT OF POWER OF GOD’S THAT NO HUMAN WOULD EVER FEEL, NOW THAT I SELF REFLECT UPON THIS. I HAVE DONE MY HOMEWORK AND SOON TO BE.
            THE BRACELET WILL GO BACK TO HIM, WITH NO PAY DUE!
            FORREST WAS A LIVE MAN FOUND ASLEEP ON A LOG OF BROWN IN THE WOOD! AND GIVIN A MEDICNE BAG TO GET HOME! HE STAYED 2 DAY RING A BELL ! THAT WAS HEARD FROM THE CANYON DOWN BELOW,
            DATED HERE INTO 7-15-2000 . WE ALL MAKE MISTAKE’S IN LIFE AND THAT
            IS WHY WE DEAL OUR JOKER CARDS!”

          • Lol… I was part of that council… did you ever figure out who the other ten were?

            I kinda miss the ole soul sucking dragon egg fool.

            Wait…that was just indigestion.

    • I love the different take on this stanza.
      Thank you for the fresh thought.
      Let me ponder that for a bit.

  67. “This day I completed my thirty first year, and conceived that I had in all human probability now existed about half the period which I am to remain in this Sublunary world. I reflected that I had as yet done but little, very little indeed, to further the hapiness of the human race, or to advance the information of the succeeding generation. I viewed with regret the many hours I have spent in indolence, and now soarly feel the want of that information which those hours would have given me had they been judiciously expended. but since they are past and cannot be recalled, I dash from me the gloomy thought and resolved in future, to redouble my exertions and at least indeavour to promote those two primary objects of human existance, by giving them the aid of that portion of talents which nature and fortune have bestoed on me; or in future, to live for mankind, as I have heretofore lived for myself.” -Meriwether Lewis on his 31st birthday.

    Found this reading a new book called “Jefferson’s America” good read. Talks about L purchase and Lewis and Clark and other journeys through the west. Thought the quote was interesting and hit home. Thought you guys would like it.

    • Very nicely stated and quite true. We are all of us, too often caught up in the trappings of the world (work, bills, more bills, etc.) that the one thing we forget to do is live and by truly living and experiencing the world, it is in this that we are afforded the opportunity to leave our mark or example for future generations.

      Thanks for sharing that Clues……really nice.

      TSHB

      • Your welcome. Its a good book. I never knew that while Lewis & Clark were on their journey, Jefferson Sent other trail blazers as a soft power move against the Brits, French and Spanish… Very interesting stuff.

  68. Anyone know why Forrest has not done another scrapbook since May? The last one was number 155. Has Forrest gone this long between scrapbooks in the past? Is the last one that important that he hasn’t done another since?
    Any answers are appreciated and thanks in advance.

  69. What I find a little interesting this morning is the fact that some have been within 200′ & others have been within 500′.
    Obviously the ones that were within 200′ were also within 500′. Correct?
    So it appears that these are different groups of people & possibly 2 different ways to get close to the chest.
    If it were the same path (if you will) they took, why would the other group only get to 500′?
    Why does this matter?
    Because we may be looking for a place where there are at least 2 ways to get close, but only one way will work for sure.

    • Jake,

      It is really interesting and bodes the question, what clue did they miss? Was it just that they couldn’t find the blaze? I’ve always felt that once you know the correct State to search in and you can figure out the “Begin it where warm waters halt” that you are in close proximity to the chest, as the poem eludes to, i.e. “Not far, but too far to walk”. Let me say this is only my opinion.
      So if searchers were that close, then it would stand to reason that they figured out the clues up to a certain point, my guess being “the blaze”.
      Thoughts?

      I’m going to have to think on your “two paths” theory. Interesting….

      TSHB

      • As we know Sleepy, There were those that figured the first 2 clues.
        Did they figure other clues down the way? We don’t know.
        To get the right state & figure WWWH & then get within 200′ of the chest, then go right by it may have been on different days but yet the same people.
        I am thinking these people were just searching many different places with many different solves within a week or 2.

        I don’t think they figured out the blaze although it is possible & just couldn’t find the right way to get there or maybe it started pouring out & decided to head back & they only had so much time to check all their solves.
        Just theory…..

        • I’m in agreement. And let me rephrase my prior comment, I meant they got up to the blaze part, but couldn’t solve or find. But I like where your going with it, makes sense.
          TSHB

          • Thanks Sleepy,
            I suppose you could see the blaze from 200′.
            How would you know it’s the blaze though unless you suspect so & move closer.
            Then again, they may taken the wrong path. The one that all have taken.

      • Perhaps ken,
        Makes me wonder why they didn’t go another 300′.
        Forrest knows this info & I would think that there are some sort of landmarks that are 200′ & 500′ away from the treasure. These landmarks would have to be small & specific.

        • There could be a number of reason why those at the first two clues went pass the other seven and the chest. But to be honest the distance never bother me. The 500′ mark came out many months prior to the 200′ mark. however we don’t know when that actually happened for either case… maybe fenn knew in 2011 but never mentioned either distance till later so those searcher could have a time line to refer back to.

          But here’s the most interesting thing… ya’ll are looking at the first two clues as a must be two places. Why does the first clue HAVE to be a place and not an understanding? And maybe this is why fenn ‘ONLY’ talks about the first ‘ two ‘ clues, and never the first clue only, except only to say you need to nail down the first clue or without the first clue ya might as well stay home.

          Scenario ~ everyone is at there wwwh and has no clue why.

          • First I wanna say that silence is golden & sends a bigger message than words at times. We will talk about this later.
            Seeker,
            No, the 1st 2 clues do not have to be places. It’s possible the 1st clue could be an understanding & should work in consecutive order with the rest of the clues.
            I just don’t follow this path as you know. I know it’s possible but just don’t like it at this time.
            One of the reasons is because my solve doesn’t require it & my 1st 2 clues fit nicely, maybe to nice.
            The reason why I think Forrest only mentions the 1st 2 clues is because the 2nd clue is a no brainer because it’s the only canyon in the area that goes down, so it’s a given once you have the first clue.
            After that, it’s a guess where you put in at the HOB. This is why I don’t think people have gotten the 3rd clue as well as me believing he’s the only one that knows what & where HOB is.
            Just my opinion….

          • I always thought Forrest implied that folks were “there” and did not even know it…also that others continue to be “there” and not know the significance…
            The puzzler for me is when he said that the person who finds the treasure will not even know for sure that they had the first clue right…

          • Ken;

            Without actually finding the treasure, can you tell me absolutely, without a doubt that YOU have the first clue correct? I think not. To me, that is all that Forrest is saying.

          • Back to the 200′ – 500′ statements,
            The people that were within these distances, could have been on a trail, road, bridge, creek, river, mountain top etc… What I’m getting at is it appears to me the places these people were would have to have a label & I know this horse has been beat up a lot in the past.

          • JDA
            Your reply is a no brainer…my point was to highlight the possibility that a confident searcher may have some (maybe a few) choices to make in regards to the first clue…might be a hindsight scenario. Primarily, my comment was enhancing Seeker’s ” …has no clue why””

        • Maybe FF originally thought of actual distance from the treasure and later referred to distance on a map (implying some very steep canyon walls)…and also explains why it isn’t far but is too far to walk around to a bridge so you have to get in a floatation device and cross the relatively safe waterway but in a bold brave fashion.

        • I got that, too. And thought the parking lot is 500′ from the goal, whoever told him they parked there is one group.
          There are paths from there. One path passes the chest by 200′. Whoever told him they walked that path out of the parking lot is in the 200ft group.

          It is not necessarily 300′ along the path to the point where the finder steps off the trail to go 200’more. Like, maybe a hairpin trail, doubles back toward parking?

          I doubt Forrest’s numbers are as precise as some people read them to be. He’s only estimating distances, but he’s very very good at that.

          I don’t know, y’know.

    • Don’t forget elevation Jake. Those statements are very general. Could be someone was 200′ in distance away and someone else at say 7000′ elevation and the chest sits at 7500′ elevation. The distance then could be quite far. We would first have to know if in those statements he is also considering the elevations of where searchers are in comparison to the chest. I mean, a searcher could have been flying in a plane, 500′ off the ground going right by the chest, and that would make the statement true. We can’t assume what f is thinking, or what he truely is saying, right? Someone told me that once.

  70. The following is my opinion and opinion only. Can a mystery, a murder case,and a robbery be solved if there is no place where those happened? My answer is no. A place has to exist for any of those things to happen. The investigator has to arrive at the location first and then start looking for clues. Some of us are looking for the clues first but we do not have the correct place. Does it matter? If the searcher wants to solve the poem mystery, yes. But how does one solve the where to begin? In order to solve the where one has to study the poem, and poem only for anything else is noise in the background. Nothing matters, nothing is except the poem. All the clues, or hints in the world do not matter if there is no place to look. No need for a flashlight, or a sandwich just a magnifying glass.RC.

    • Is the magnifying glass used to look at maps or something else, Like a drawing or picture in TOTC? :).
      I bought a nice map magnifier (half sphere) that sits right on the map… love it!

  71. Seeker,

    I was toward the end of a very long comment I was typing to you when this piece-of-crap computer burped and spit the entire post out into the unknown somewhere, so I’ll try again, but with brevity.

    For starters, I like your style. It’s going to take someone who thinks like you to bring home the gold.

    The LGFI has been beat to death. It was simply a hypothetical question. But, let’s entertain it here once more, just for the sake of clarity.
    Why is it that a boy from Waxahachee can’t get any closer than the first two clues?
    ( f said ‘closer’, not ‘past’ or ‘farther than’.

    Wax boy can’t get closer than 1&2, but then there are searchers who were at 1&2 and went right on ‘past’ 3-9. So, why can’t Wax boy go right past 3-9 also? And why is it a ‘little girl’, ‘a boy’ and ‘a kid’ from Marrakech?

    It would appear on the surface that the searchers who went right past 3-9, would be moving away from 1&2. So why can’t these three kids do the same thing? I think the answer would be that “You just can’t get any closer than that.”
    How can this be so, if you are ‘passing’ 3-9 as you move away from 1&2?

    In my mind, there almost certainly has to be a circulatory process of some fashion.
    ( and for those who might feel the need to ‘school’ me, Yes, I know this has been discussed many times.)
    T.S.Eliot was given to us for a reason, not simply a random quote that f likes.

    And since you appear to be the go-to guy for everything Fenn around here, I have a question. Do you recall ever seeing an article that included some of the wigs Forrest has rubbed elbows with over the years? I read it one time and haven’t been able to relocate it since. Any help would be appreciated.

    And, I don’t remember where it was at but, on April 1 of this year, I believe it might have been a letter from a ‘little girl’ named Alison that f posted. April 1 is Ali McGraw’s birthday, and I’m fairly certain that I read somewhere that she and f are friends.
    I have a very entertaining commentary that I might see if Dal will post. It’s much too voluminous to post here. Some of it might be considered ‘things that aren’t worth knowing’ , like RC posting on Aug 15 about winding up at the place you started. Just so happens that “In Through the Out Door” was released by Swan Song Records on Aug 15, 1979.

    “swan song” is synonymous with ‘resting place’ and ‘destiny’, which is another way of saying Kismet. Kismet is synonymous with the ‘hand one is dealt’ (four cards and a joker).

    Yes, I am That guy, the one who, for reasons unknown to me, knows all this worthless crap. It comes natural, like the day the blogs were slow and I decided to read “Happy Birthday Ozzie”, and once finished, realized it was his friggin birthday the day I read it.

    Keep on questioning the answers lil’ brother, that’s what it’s gonna take.

    After all, “It’s what you know for sure, that just ain’t so” that guarantees Indulgence won’t be found until that certain someone reads the poem in a different manner.

    Have a good day.

    • Just read this… I’m out right at the moment. But I would like to reply to you later… however, please don’t consider me the go to guy. I go by memory most of the time or have to look up what I need for references. Loco is the go to guy for accuracy on fenn’s quotes and comments… if I was him, I start charging a small fee for supply us with his collection.

      Loco, I do expect a discounted rate because I’m your most repeated customer.

    • Roll Tide,
      Before I get into this chat with you, disregard any theory I have mentioned before. My thought don’t stick to one method for anything so when talking about this… it’s not about a theory or solve.

      I have said basically the same as you. Little Indy herself is the hypothetical, but the question and answer I think have merit. Like you said, ” can not get closer” seems to imply the chest and when all those searchers moved to what they thought was the next step or clue… they simply move farther away from there goal [ the chest possibly ].

      One reason could be they didn’t understand that one clue may not be a place but an understanding of ‘why’ there… which could be the second clue.
      Another possibility, all the other clues are there, very close and not far… I would add while clues 1 and 2 seem to work in tandem, the other seven or part of them could be informational and not places. Fenn said; “most” of the places existed when he was a kid… that give a couple of options to think about. Not all the places where around [ example would be Earth Quake lake as one of the popular ideas ] Or not all clues are places.

      If I gave more than one clues to bring you to a location… Gone alone, and wwwwh [ just as an example]. and at this site you have to [ for lack of a better term ] discover information that is needed to be know. Would it be possible that some of those pieces of information could be collected from places? Smaller places but still considered places? Is this the reason no one can not get closer? they need that information?

      Fenn said the poem as all the information to lead you to the chest… but does that mean the poem can’t tell you where to find pieces of needed information in the field, and still hold true to the poem having the information… another words, without the poem, what is seen at the location of clues 1 and 2 is useless and if a searcher doesn’t have some idea of this possibility… they don’t understand why they are there [ beforehand ] and just move on to what they think must be the next clue… hence… Little Indy or anyone can not get closer without it.

      Straightforwards is an illusion not to think. Straightforwards is not always easy or simple. Fenn said this was difficult, I don’t understand why so many don’t look at it like that. IMO they over simplify the poem because they think it can only be one way.

      Straightforwards can mean in all honesty… I’m telling you what you need to know up from. Of course there will be some who will bark once more… you’re making it to complicated. I get the feeling they don’t know what difficult means. Fenn has given examples of “OVER complicating” and in most solve I have read… I see just that, so much outside information being researched on hunches and force into a solve.

      But hey, I have opinion as well, and that’s one of them.

      • Spell check;
        I’m telling you what you need to know up from.
        Should be “up front”

      • Seeker,

        “what is seen at the location of clues 1 and 2 is useless and if a searcher doesn’t have some idea of this possibility . . . they don’t understand why they are there . . .”

        I agree.

        “Or not all clues are places.”

        And for everything else, there’s mastercard . . .

  72. @Roll Tide good stuff, looking forward to reading Seeker’s reply. My first reaction to some of your question is that is has to do with BOTG, but I guess that’s obvious. P.S. I was born in Tuscaloosa.

    • Thanks Cholly,

      I grew up down the road a piece from T-town, over ’round Tannehill State Park. My first job that my uncle sam knew about, was working for the park, on the clean-up and maintenance crew. It’s a gorgeous place, although now ‘modernized’. You should click on the pics on GE and take a tour. The old civil-war furnace is really neat. Killed a #13 rattler just a stone’s throw from that covered bridge.

      Now, have you read the verse of T.S.Eliot found right above the verse that f quoted?

  73. @Roll Tide it is my opinion that all clues are in one place, and they exist in harmony,not being selfish in their existence like most people are. But how is this possible? The clues are not what they seem they are. But only those who can change the way they think can grasp this simplest way of thinking. Again this is what I think, and I only know what the poem tells me, and not from what I think I know.RC.

    • All that you are missing RC is the chest. When are you going to put boots on the ground and either prove your assertions correct, or be willing to eat your deserved portion of crow – like many of the rest of us have done?

      All we ever hear is how wrong our thinking is, and how right your thinking is. Quit thinking, and put your thoughts into action, or back off with the assertions.

      That is just my own private opinion.

      JDA

  74. I have a point for clarification and I need everyone’s (including Forrest’s) help! A couple weeks ago the following was a featured question:

    “OOPS, one more on this (pretty please)
    Q3) And IF he/she are still searching, after two years’ time, has ANYONE else neared or passed he/she in proximity to the above mentioned “within two hundred feet”? I’m hoping for a mind tingling, fire starting, blog buzzing answer from you, but just a response is fine by me!

    A) No need for oops, but again, I don’t know. f”

    What is Forrest saying here? (How do I word this?)

    Okay… Make the following assumptions:

    1) Forrest has been to the Statue of Liberty (over two years ago)
    2) No one he knows (including himself) has been to the statue in the last 2 years
    3) Forrest recognizes that places similar to the statue are visited every year/day

    If I asked Forrest if he knew whether or not someone had been within close proximity of the Statue of Liberty in the last two years would his answer be the same?

    Hopefully everyone gets the point. I personally have not been to the statue, ever, and yet I know people have been within 200 ft of it in the last two years. The same would apply to Yellowstone. If this isn’t a red herring and Forrest honestly doesn’t know whether or not people have been within 200 ft. Then his statement implies that the chest is not within 200 ft of anywhere people (ANYONE) regularly travel. That includes trail heads/ends, roads, monuments, overlooks, or any point of interest. If Forrest would clarify this for all of us the implications of his statement may be helpful to potential solves, otherwise not so much…

    • Good Grief Man,

      He said he “doesn’t know”……and I believe ….he doesn’t know. Period.

      • There is an extremely subtle difference. With out the distinction the statement is worth… less.

    • Golden Horse,
      What was the topic about? the chest, the chase, who was closest, etc. If we remove the topic… then sure it could be about tourists being near the chest. So if that is the case, then the comment or Q&A are useless. The only “clarification’ you’re asking for, is for fenn to clear your own thoughts. I personally have to take it as fenn talking about the chase and actual searchers.

      That is the reason he knows several have been at the first two clues because he was told by searchers where they had been… the same for the other seven clues they passed by and the same for the chest. If another searcher was closer… the obvious answer is, unless they told him [ e-mail etc. ] he would not know who was actually closet or how far away.

      • My statement was about the chest/hunt. I am not sure I can better explain my point. Are there any reasonable people on this blog that understand what I was trying to say? If so, please try to explain my point more clearly.

    • Golden Horse,

      Let me preface my statement by saying this is my opinion only. I personally agree with one of your last sentences, “…Then his statement implies that the chest is not within 200′ of anywhere people regularly travel…”

      If my memory still serves me correctly, and please correct me fellow searchers if I’m misstating, FF has said that the chest is not associated with a structure, in a graveyard, in a cave, a mine and is NOT in very close proximity to a human trail.

      I personally think that the chest is not in a place where folks regularly travel, hike, camp, etc. FF has said the chest would not be stumbled upon or found by accident. Whoever solves the poem will have done so with confidence.

      All the best in your hunt for solves, answers and the elusive treasure!

      TSHB

      • Thank you! You understood my point of clarification. I have never read anything written or spoken by Forrest that says the chest isn’t in a cave or mine. The close proximity to a human trail statement is correct.

        However… close proximity is relative. There is nothing in the poem or statements from Fenn claiming that “close proximity” exceeds 200 ft. If the statement I am referring to follows my train of thought than the GIS guys and potentially the rest of us could greatly narrow our search area. AND! there are even greater implications.

        TSHB I appreciate your insight. Thank you for taking the time to consider my post and respond.

        • Golden Horse,

          I believe if you scroll up further in this thread, you will find a link that was graciously posted by either Seeker or Jake F, that was an interview with FF on the radio is Santa Fe. FF said that it is not in a mine/cave, etc.

          THSB

  75. Lil’ something I ran across today . . . maybe it has been discussed before, I don’t know.
    This has nothing to do with my solve. I don’t plan on using it. If you can use it, go for it.

    Begin it where warm waters halt.
    North Lake, Co.
    Why? I don’t know and I don’t care. See above – “if you can use it . . .”

    And take it in the canyon down.
    Taking highway 12 south, you are going down in elevation?

    Not far but too far to walk.
    Duh.

    Put in below the home of Brown.
    You arrive at Stonewall, Co.

    From there it’s no place for the meek.
    If you turn south at Stonewall, you will find two ghost towns. From this point I don’t see anything else that could be poem-related, so let’s go back to Stonewall and continue east. Stonewall is no longer home of Brown at this point.

    Continue east and put in below the home of Brown – at Co. Rd. 21.6, turn north. You will immediately find the adobe house that is built on top of the bridge with the creek running beneath it . By turning north here, you are putting-in below this home of (b)rown. Yea, I don’t like that either, but it ain’t my solve.

    From there it’s no place for the meek.
    Drive north and you will come to a sewage treatment plant. Yea, I know, that stinks for a clue. But you gotta admit, there’s a lot of crap at that place. Meek folks don’t want no crap. It also is located at the junction that road 13 ties in. Use your imagination.

    The end is ever drawing nigh.
    Self explanatory. Plus, you have steadily drawn to the left.

    There’ll be no paddle up your creek.
    Looks like you are driving through a creekbed at this point. And, it looks dry to me.

    Just heavy loads and water high.
    Make of it what you will.

    You have made a complete circle. You are back at North Lake.

    Only other thing I got, is it’s cold up north.

    Yea, it’s lame in my book too. But hey, What’d you expect for free?

    • in re the above: There is also what some might consider to be a nice interpretation of ‘blaze’ at North Lake.

  76. Ok, so I have not commented on this thread chapter and not subscribed as I am accustomed to. I still do not intend on subscribing. I just want to express a thought that has been on my mind for quite a while.
    F does things with intent for the most part and I do believe his poem is straightforward as he says it is. His book, TTOTC, though, I would not say to be so. The chapters are not in order and I don’t know why he would have done it put them out of order. Maybe his brain got rattled or something. I’ve rode on the Rattled roller coaster at Cliff’s in Albuquerque and it rattled my brain a little. Maybe f drives like myself and that rattled his brain. I mean no derogation or disrespect toward f. The rattling of the chapers in TTOTC may be hintful.
    I think this idea may be the one thing f is surprised no Searcher of Indulgence has mentioned (the chapters appear to be out of order). Yet, they are in order enough.
    Of course, all I write is in my opinion.
    I think I’m subscribed on The Poem Part V ( whichever the latest one is). If compelled message me there.

  77. The following is for entertainment purposes only.

    The gkids were watching tv this morning and something I heard caused my earballs to perk up.
    Turns out that they were watching Alvin and the Chipmunks – “Chipwrecked”, a caper in which they were looking for hidden treasure.
    Welllll, Okay. So what?

    Seems that one of the characters . . . All he wanted was a bracelet that’s in the hidden chest. Told everyone they could have the entire treasure. All he wanted was the bracelet . . .

    Turns out , the chest was hidden behind a waterfall . . .
    Ain’t that a Hoot ?

    (Don’t mind me . . . even the voices in my head are talkin’ about the rabbit-holes . . .)

    “rabbit hole”= burrow = drop anchor = Put In.

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