Jenny Kile’s Questions…Part Two

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about what Forrest has said on her blog please go to the most
current “Jenny Kile’s Questions” page.

Jenny Kile is a self proclaimed puzzle enthusiast and has a wonderful blog called Mysterious Writings where folks write about the mysteries of the universe and Jenny poses questions to people with answers. Some of her blog is devoted to various puzzles and quests and treasure hunts. One section is devoted to The Thrill of the Chase and a subsection is called Questions With Fenn. Here, Forrest answers questions posed by her readers. Wonderful questions…sometimes mystifying answers.

Her blog is here: Questions With Fenn

This is a place we can discuss his “mysterious” answers.

589 thoughts on “Jenny Kile’s Questions…Part Two

  1. Jenny,
    I love you and your mysterious writings. BUT, If you have a stack of weekly words from Forrest then wouldn’t that give you a HUUUUUUGE jump on us searchers that have to wait for each week to get something new to chew on???
    Thanks
    Timothy…IMHO

    • Timothy;

      I am sure Forrest has thought of that, and has not imbedded and “Special Clues or hints” in the upcoming posts. I think that we can trust in Forrest’s and Jenny’s integrity. JDA

          • If there is no difference when, then maybe this should have been posted before summer?
            “Shut your engine off until spring”
            It did make a difference to you at one time. I am glad you trashed that way of thinking.

          • Jake;

            You might have missed my post of a few days ago where-in I said that even if I had previously thought that Forrest MIGHT have been directing some “Nudges” my way, that is in the past. Since I have moved to a different search site – 1/4 mile farther upstream – anything that I had misinterpreted was related to the old search area, so was certainly my imagination, since the TC was NOT where I thought it might be. Since Forrest gave Jenny a stack of “Weekly Posts” – whenever he gave them to her – none can apply to my new site.

            Hope that this clears up that old Stuff. JDA

          • Ya, I read your comment back then.
            In your comments you have proven that it does make a difference when the WW were given to Jenny.
            If you had known they were given to her back in November, you would have never thought he was nudging you.
            So, the date does make a difference.

      • JDA
        AMEN!!!
        Since Forrest is gone for a little while I have to treat Jenny like one of the guys.. So I pushed her a little, just like I have others with out them knowing. Including You my friend…
        Thanks Jenny, your the best …lol
        Timothy

    • SUB,
      Jake/Tim,
      Really, you think the words from Forrest are going to give you some big break or an advantage. Come on, his words are usually inspirational or hints to those who insist on searching where an 80 old can not go or in a river in the middle of winter.
      “Get back in the box”
      Be safe

    • Morn JDA & Jake
      I was just playing with Jenny a little bit no need to be bringing up the past, that’s over and done. I am sure that 100% in my head that Forrest and Jenny “DO NOT” favor any one searcher. Jenny and Forrest are two of the most honest people we are dealing with. By the way, does Jenny still search???
      Timothy…IMHO
      Be safe & enjoy the mountains…

  2. The answers are very mysterious.
    Thanks Jenny for helping Forrest out with your site. And us searchers.

  3. Thanks for what you contribute, Jenny. 🙂

    There’s no reason to think you have been given an advantage, ff isn’t giving us clues, just personal info. 😉

  4. I just joined this search a month or so back. It is really interesting to go back and read some of Forrest’s words and short articles from a couple of years back. He gave out quite a few hints back then— I think more then than now. And you can really learn a lot. I really enjoy Jenny’s site a lot, and look forward to each MB Friday.

  5. Hi del can you tell me what interview it was when forest said he wished he hadn’t said something ? Maybe possible clue!

  6. My trig teacher in high school said something that has stuck with me all these years, and I can now apply it to F’s little tidbits of common sense and wisdom…
    “Donna, I’ll not give you the answers, but will give you little keys that will open the doors to thinking in your brain.” Prob not her EXACT words, but, you get the gist.
    I need some oil on those door hinges!
    Be safe.
    ¥Peace ¥

    • There is an expression in Japan which basically means that the most unexpected people profit from a phenomenon or event even when seemingly there is no causal relationship. It goes like this; When the wind blows many people go blind because they get dust in their eyes. These people seek jobs as Japanese Shamisen ( banjo) players so a lot of cats are killed because catskin is used to make the instruments. This causes an increase in rats and the rats nibble on casks so the coopers profit. This is the long story but the shorter expression is, “When the wind blows the coopers profit.”
      YY

      Kinda an eccentric story….but hey-maybe she doesn’t want to go blind? Tough place to be in those pilot fish boots. Lol.

    • Good question, spallies. However, I doubt that you will get an answer. My best guess is the there is no legal parking near the place that you need to go IN. Your partner would need to be in the car to move it if the police showed up. Perhaps that is why he said not to search alone. You need a wheel man. Good luck in your searching.

      Godspeed,

      Windy City

    • LOL,
      Legal reasons, tickets, don’t want the partner to know of the find, maybe get in trouble for trespassing, maybe an emergency will pop up and the partner can drive for help. Maybe the partner is to stand guard….
      Maybe the suggestion here is bring along as many partners as you like, but only one can fit in the spot. So leave them in the car is saying nothing about the car but only one can do it. or like Teachers with Ropes… it’s a single file area.
      While others are scuba diving in swollen 6′ deep creeks… another meaning for creek is “a narrow passage”. Could this be why it’s no place for the meek… those with claustrophobia maybe.
      Example might be, Tall shear walls on each side with just enough room for one to slip into [heavy loads] and [water high] might be water above this area. which is a definition of a canyon, just not on a scale we normally think a canyon is. Put in ~ to go in ~ below hoB. Is hoB the blaze? and we look quickly down from the blaze into this crevice type area. This area that is not for those sheepish types. and as well look with marvel gaze, because we know where to go for our quest to cease, at the end.

      I could be wrong… maybe size does matter to some,

  7. W O W – There is a new post on Jenny’s site. Here is what it says: “*I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t. f (October 14, 2016).

    This means that the treasure has been hidden for about 22 years, not seven. Forrest says that he spent about 15 years writing the poem. The “Chase” has been going on almost seven. 7 + 15 = 22. W O W

    It does not help much in finding the chest, but it sure raises a lot of questions.

    What were a few friends looking at when they said that they say the chest and its contents in Forrest’s vault?

    I found a Youtube video about 6 months ago, about someone having a replica of Forrest’s chest made. Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8me_3bBwSHY. Not sure when this was made – I see a date in 2014, but it could have been made at any time, and released or posted on Youtube in 2014. INTERESTING!!!

    Do not know what to make of it all. JDA

    • I don’t think those weekly words tell us anything. It’s the old “I never said she stole my money” trick. Has seven different meanings depending on which word is stressed. 🙂

    • WOW is right JD,
      I will need more time to think about this.

      BTW, I tried to get to this page through “Searcher’s Discussions” link on the right, but said page was now closed.

      Maybe Goofy can elaborate…..

    • JD,
      Wow, when i read that statement with out the, “,but i didn’t”, i just thought it meant, he simply knew of the place long before, so he COULD have written the poem that lead you to that place? But he didn’t until there was a purpose.

      When you include the “but i didn’t”, then the logic says,
      He didn’t start writing the poem until after he hid it. hmmmmm

      The time line of getting that sick, choosing to die out in nature, surviving cancer, putting a chest of gold out there to find, taking that long to get the poem out. Someone who went through that much trouble to write a poem surely would have had a backup plan in case he got hit by a bus, or lightning. Backup plan being, hide while I’m sick but not too sick to hide it, no one is going to stumble upon it, and when the time is right give the poem to the world. While he was sick, i wonder if he intended to release a poem or clue.

      Have a great weekend everyone!

    • In the Mob.D interview he said it was 15 years from the time I got cancer to the the time I hid the treasure chest. He does not say the poem, he goes on to talking about how he worked on the poem. But he does not 15 years to write the poem.
      But im not say he didn’t work on the poem for 15 years or more. because he talks about changing the part for take the chest but leave my bones. Sounds like he was working on the poem well he had cancer.
      I’m not sure how to interpret this one from FF.

      • Maybe FF is saying that you have to unlock the poem to know exactly where it is. And then you can start going back and unlock the path that you must take to get to it. I would think one would have to place the chest in its exact location to start making a map to get to it or the map would just be a general location.
        Just a thought.

        • FF has also said a memoir and a poem usually point to one subject.
          Kinda makes sense that you would have to figure out the subject matter of what the poem is pointing to.
          That’s why I believe the poem is telling two things the subject and the path.if you don’t know the subject, you don’t know the path.
          That’s why people have been unknowing they have got some of the clues correct. They just got lucky.
          You must unlock the whole poem to unlock the path.

    • JD,
      I had saved this interview because I was never certain about when he hid the treasure.

      Moby vid
      (34:00) Was the car, you walked back to after hiding the treasure rented?

      “That’s the 1st time I’ve been asked that Q, but I can’t tell you how many times I’ve thought about that. That’s why I TOLD people I buried the treasure, that I hid the treasure when I was either 79 or 80 years old because I don’t want the exact date to be known because I’m afraid somebody will go check the rental car records & mileage”

      “That’s why I TOLD people”
      He may have told people something different for good reason.
      Heck, I’m not sure what to believe at this point…..

      • A very good point Jake. So, now we are looking for rental car records somewhere between seven years ago, and 22 years ago – maybe??? JDA

      • I don’t understand the issue Jake..He told the people (us) that he hid the treasure when he was 79 or 80. He said this rather then tell the people (us) that he hid it in March of 2010…or whenever he actually hid it..
        In other words he is not going to tell the people (us) anything more exact than that he was either 79 or 80 when he hid the chest…
        That all makes sense to me..

        • This is what I see dal,
          There is a difference in what is told & what was actually done, but I did listen to a video where he stated he had done it so that should clear that up.
          No, I don’t remember where the video is but I think there is a link somewhere here.

          My take on today’s words & others are that Forrest does not always state all the info in his statements. That means that the statements are correct but some info is missing.

          He changed the poem again after he hid the chest & “The poem” is what is in the book & all other versions before are not “The poem”.

          Simple, I think.

          • Jake – I posted this over on Jenny’s site…

            “Just a thought to consider…

            Written is the past participle of write. A past participle typically means completed action. So if f changed even one word in the poem after hiding the chest then the poem wasn’t “written” or “completed” before the chest was hidden; his statement here would then be correct.

            I think most people here, upon seeing this statement, immediately processed and thought in their mind that f was saying he did not start writing the poem until after he hid the treasure; we are tricked by our own thinking and perception.

            I suspect f has done the exact same thing with the poem which is why it is so difficult to figure out. We are at an immediate disadvantage because our own thinking and perception immediately and often permanently blinds us to what is actual or real. Consider f’s recent citing of the Mark Twain quote and to watch Smarter Every Day on YouTube.”

  8. Here’s what I think. Forrest invented a time machine and hasn’t told anyone about it yet. The TC is hidden in the time machine. The Time machine is in the Rockies somewhere. The real question though is “when” is it, not necessarily “where” is it. lol

    • I 100% agree with this, only the “when” is now. the trick is finding the other nine “when’s” the clues stop at that are all in the same place…..and then waiting 90 days on ones claim with crawling skin to claim ones trove without anyone disputing it so the gov can fork it over and no future aliens can claim they found it before you….or after…..lol

      • Jonsey,
        Why is the “when” now? You have to admit that “now” is when two clues were deciphered and searchers at the correct location went pass the other seven clue… Did they do so because they were in this time and not the time the poem speaks of?

        If two people can keep a secret and the only way this happens if one is dead… line of thinking.
        Can the poem be told by both, and still only written by the one?
        As “I have” gone alone in there and with my treasures bold. Which treasures is being told of?
        So why is it I must go… didn’t fenn already [ supposedly ] tell us he did [gone] in stanza 1? Yet fenn his leaving a trove here, and tells us he know the answers… answers to what exactly? “I’ve” done it…
        If you look at this as Joe suggested, serious or not, Time seems to be a possible factor.
        Try reading the poem in time.
        I have gone alone with my treasures and can keep it a secret where in time past.
        We are told if we have been wise and found the blaze to do something in this time ~present
        Fenn asks why is it I must go and leave a trove? But subtlety changes I have ~ to ~ I’ve [ along with gone and go ] Is tired and weak to represent periods of time or over time?
        Two journeys, one of time past [ is one is dead ][first three stanza].
        Last two stanzas, second journey [ fenn ] telling of both journeys.
        and US in the middle.
        There are many reference to time in the poem… one example;
        “Gone alone in there.” Gone as been done in time past. alone by self or first as first in time. In there in time.
        This bring a new thought to “begin it where…” as in time. And if all that crap I just said is remotely accurate. What we all think is present tense may actually be, in there in time.
        So If time is something needed to be known… are we looking at the clues wrong, when we ‘see’ them right “now”?

        Searchers didn’t understand the “significance of where they were”?

        • I just meant given the time machine theme the “when” wed need to find is now….if one were to look at the nine clues being the same place at different times. Aka every time the machine stopped in a different time at the same place F got off and wrote a clue
          Finding that place in the present would be when the chest is here.

          • Ok, Would this thought be fenn’s life span in his memoirs, with each time point [time machine stopping point] having a clue to represent a physical place in our time?
            It’s getting late… you may need to kick more sense into me lol

          • Thinking to oneself “what took me long” is generally verbally expressed as

            “ITS ABOUT TIME”

            kinda like thinking “why didn’t I think of that?” Is often expressed as “I should have known…(but I didnt)”….like others would be forced to say after a 90 day wait on claiming a ‘found treasure’

            I know some look into trove laws, but a trove has an unknown owner or lack of descendants. ‘found treasure’ in many places just requires one claim it but leave in a legal ‘lost and found’ type holding to make sure no one else claims etc.

            I just think those types of thinks are hints. They help you understand the clues but don’t point out directions or anything.

          • And no….no ‘each place’ just ONE place. Written of at different points in time. Dumb example but Joe’s Brown house house, John’s Blue house, Uncle Al’s farm, a landfill, a glacier… could have all the exact same address just different places over time. Does that make sense? Sorry I suck at explaining things but I’m trying to convey a simple point I promise the words just never come out right.

          • Jonsey,
            While I got ya, I’d like an opinion from you and I hope I ask it right.

            The book has subtle hints to help with the clues, and clues will lead one to the chest… What is the purpose of having the clues in a poem?
            Are we missing the reason fenn used a poem and not just splattered hints and clue in the book alone?
            Sure sure… the poem is in the book so hints and clues are in the book technically. But I keep wondering why the avenue of a poem.

          • Actually that’s a good explanation.
            The clues are in one spot. But in different time periods.
            I have thought about time in the poem as starting back in time and working forwards. I have thought all the clues are in one location [ spot ].
            Also thought, the clues are of a time related natural occurrence that relates to what is now in present time.

            But to be honest. I never considered the spot to be clues in that spot over different points in time. See you can teach an old dog new tricks.

          • I ran bars for years and old people’s favorite thing to talk about it all the different things a certain place used to be. “I remember when it was a shack” “then Dave made it into a grocery store and lost it in a poker game to Big Steve” “when he died his greedy wife turned it into a brothel” etc.

            As clues this may read:

            Begin at the ramshackle cabin, then take it down the cereal isle. Don’t bet to much or they’ll bury you. Hugh Heffner would be proud.

            Alone the clues are many vague places with hundreds of solves, but together on a time only one physical place exists. “Now” was when the box was there.

            Does that clarify at all?

          • Good clarification. although, could you tell me more about this brothel place… I feel a hint coming on.

  9. Does he just mean the chest itself? It has been speculated in the past that he might have hidden the chest and gold at separate times like a trial run to see if anyone stumbled on it.

    This may seem to violate other statements but seems like we need to question everything else anyway at this point.

  10. From: dal neitzel
    Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 10:35 AM
    To: Forrest Fenn
    Subject: Latest words on Jenny’s site

    From Jenny’s Blog today
    “I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t. f”

    You said before that you hid the chest when you were 79 or 80…
    That would have been between August 2009 and August of 2011…
    The poem was certainly written when it appeared in the book and on your website in October of 2010
    You have also said you worked on the poem for 15 years…

    Does all this add up??

    dal-

    —————————-

    Response from Forrest Fenn:
    I never was good at math, but that’s the way I remember it. f

    • Thanks for posting that, Dal.

      There is a difference between starting to write something and when it is written (complete).

      All of these statements can be true. 🙂

    • So how can this week’s words – “*I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t.” f be interpreted so that there is not a conflict? I am not sure that I see the way – at least not yet. Does it really matter?

      Probably not. JDA

      • It does matter, if one wishes to understand what Mr. Fenn’s words mean.

        That is what we all want to understand, the words in his poem. 🙂

          • I am saying that there is a conflict between what Forrest posted today, and what he said in response to dal. MAYBE there is a middle-road if we look at todays weekly post a bit differently, but at the moment I do not see it. AND – does it really matter? Probably not. JDA

        • ID could have written the poem before EGO hid the treasure chest, but SUPER EGO didn’t.

          There’s a reason he used three I’s when he could have simply said,
          “I could have written the poem before hiding the chest, but didn’t.”

    • As a couple of people have said – written – a completed action.

      “I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t. f”

      Invert the sentence and it might be saying, : “I didn’t finish writing the poem before I hid the treasure.” Read this way, it makes sense, and there is no contradiction. Y E A ! ! !

      JDA

      • It still implies that he hid the treasure before he finished the poem, but that may have taken only a day or two, to complete it the way he wanted, and not 15 years. JDA

      • One possible take on today’s weekly words….It may well be that if FF had written the poem before hiding the treasure chest, the poem WOULD have been different. In other words, the poem contains some very specific information about the precise place where the TC is hid or a crucial juncture on the trail. Therefore this week’s weekly words may have been penned many weeks or months ago and possibly were meant at the time of writing to clear up a controversy on the blogs at that time.

    • I’ve been trying to make sense of this. So, I went back and reviewed Fenn’s weekly words. They all make sense to me and seem to have a purpose.
      http://mysteriouswritings.com/weekly-words-from-forrest-fenn-on-the-thrill-of-the-chase/

      But this one smells like Jonsey’s Christmas tree ornament.

      He point blank said it took him 15 years to write the poem at the Collected Works book signing. He has said on many occasions he hid the chest when he was 79 or 80. Now he says he didn’t write the poem until after he hid the chest. Even if we stretched the “written” tangent as some have suggested; what is the purpose of this statement.

      Apparently I have misunderestimated what he is telling us.

      • Goofy,
        It’s not a contradiction if his three “I’s” are three different aspects of the human psyche–the ID, the EGO, and the SUPER-EGO.

        Just a few weeks ago, he used the word ego. If you read about these three aspects of the psyche, you can see how the three “I’s” reconcile the statement with other statements…

        The id (think of ID on inside front cover of TTOTC) is what you’re born with. It’s instinct. It’s the part of you that is driven according to how you’re programmed.

        The ego is the part of you that wants self gratification–the selfish part, the arrogant part.

        The super ego is the moral part of the psyche…the part that checks both the id and ego when they want to do something instinctive or selfish. It’s the part that’s striving to do right.

        So, the sentence makes sense if you think of it as three “different” people (or three different aspects of one). Like someone said earlier, it’s like a friend is one of the “I’s.”

        The etymology of “alter ego” is “a second self, a trusted friend.”

        Two can keep a secret if one is dead.

        He enjoys the company when he’s alone.

        • Jonsey-
          But that would mean Forrest is as wacky as you are (no negativity intended). If that’s the case only YOU can figure out what he’s talking about because my brain can’t go there.

          How on earth is a redneck in a pick-up with a bunch of kids who doesn’t have time to be very imaginative going to figure out what he means?…or for that matter a kid???

          If it takes that level of appreciation I guess I need to start reading Psychology Today…
          But that wasn’t on his reading list…
          and how does a comprehensive knowledge of geography fit in?

          • Dal,
            I’m not jonesy. Lol.

            But really, I learned about the id and ego in junior high. It’s not really complicated. Forrest hints at duality or even more aspects of the human mind throughout TTOTC.

            Remember when he said “Prudence whispered?” Was there really an invisible woman whispering to him? No, it was himself, his super ego, telling him to do the wise thing.

            Remember “a man plays many parts?”

            And I can’t even begin to count how many times he alludes to the mind.

            And a comprehensive knowledge of geography– freuds structural model of the mind was also called a topographical model–it was a map.

            However, understanding the mind and the aspects that form our thoughts, actions and being, is only part of the answer. IMO.

            In my opinion, when F says he found contentment, it was when he learned to balance the id, ego and super ego.

          • Thank you Jake. And Dal…F can out whack circles around me….Im still a student…a wicket if you will….

            I do think I can explain this one from a deep secret part of the gene pool though. Its the answers to questions without the questions. Also explains why it’s no foul play jenny has them. Just saving ink by not posting the questions too. And secretly smiling to oneself at knowing the truth (and having the hard copy proof) while everyone preaches…and a couple people cry and go home . Id make some popcorn…sounds like a family Christmas game theme around my house.

          • Wow, it looks a little like what we just experienced with Hurricane Matthew, but a lot of people’s cars here suffered more than water damage.
            That looks stomach churning, though and I’m glad you’re safe! 🙂

          • Nice wavage dal,
            Someone was riding it out in the 3.2 SUV drivers seat & stepped on the brakes hoping to stop the wash & rinse cycle to no avail.

            There’s no better place I would like to live.
            Or die for that matter.

            Super Trooper till the bottom meets what was on the top.

          • Holy cow, Dal! That’s one heck of a ride! I watched the weather this morning and saw you were going to be in for a doozy.

          • What a ride Dal! It looks like very cold and uninviting. The optimist in me says at least the cars got washed good on the ride over. Stay safe this weekend.

            Did you pick up the little cache the last time you were in West, or is it going to remain for the winter?

          • Dal it sure is nasty out. I’m in Washington as well. I live in Covington and my creek and pond in my back yard have been over flowing. Just hope we don’t loose power. Stay dry and stay warm.

          • Hey Dal, hope you made it back over to the island ok… We already lost power for a few hours here today… But it came back on 🙂 Interested to see what tomorrow brings….

            Stay safe-

          • Hear-
            The little cache was not put out this season. It is safe in my cabin and I hope to put it out next spring.
            I did not put it out because I fully expected Goofy to find the chest and end all our pain.
            Maybe next year…

          • HA! Sorry Dal, I’m hurrying every chance I get.

            Maybe this year, the truck is almost ready.

        • Well Mindy you lost me. But I did learn something. Apparently a lot of folk’s super egos have depressed their supereogs.

          Maybe he just uses too many I’s when he writes like he has said.

          • Goofy,
            Could be.
            This is all just my opinion, but you have to think that Forrest wrote all of these weekly words.
            I don’t think they’re useless, and I don’t think they contradict each other.

            I don’t think they provide hints that will LEAD you to the TC. However, after you have arrived on the right trail, you can look back at them and slap your forehead and say, “Doh!” 🙂

            If he created these weekly words, and they mean something, I would think that in this case, it’s in the extra use of the word “I.”

            I think everyone agrees that F is a “wordsmith,” and that he has a love of definitions and the English language. And that we often have to look for alternate, sometimes obscure or even obsolete, word meanings.

      • I have a “side theory” that the weekly words are answers to questions but the questions are not published…I’ve seen skits and articles done like that before. Try reading Fs funny mailbag as answers only. It’d strikingly similar. Maybe someone had asked about another poem such as ode to Peggy Jean or something. It does smell a little like Santa Claus I do agree. Lmao.

    • “Don’t be impatient, the treasure chest isn’t”

      “It will be there for as long as time has to come, or until you find it”

      The Weekly Words are a data set, with several one-liners matching later statements.

      Maybe there’s a punchline coming?

      • True Jeremy, the treasure will always b there,waiting. One only needs to follow the proper path and it can b found.

      • Definitely a possibility, The Count, but I don’ think it’s necessary. Nor, does it add up with the information we already have, as Dal has pointed out.

        From a literal viewpoint, he DID write “the poem” before “I hid the treasure chest”, so the statement contradicts himself.

        However, taking a first step into interpretation, “the” “treasure” “chest” were NOT hidden in his statement, but in plainview, just like “the poem”. Like wise, in the poem itself, those words are not hidden.

        And I think there’s even more.

    • What if the poems accuracy requires the chest to be hidden before written?

      As I “have gone” alone in there
      And with my treasure bold,

      When I seek answers I go back to the poem…..

  11. This is very interesting. I’ve often wondered why the timelines don’t line up (1988 + 15 = 2003)… Generally I’ve written this as time to contemplate (for 7ish years) if f truly wanted to do it… now I’m not sure.

    In an effort to not get frustrated, i’ve decided to look at this week’s “weekly words” slightly differently. Maybe what f is saying is that the he has written the poem to be followed after the tc. Put another way – maybe f’s saying that the clues in the poem are leading you from the tc back to your car….. reference the backward bike comment?

    Throwing thoughts at a wall and seeing what sticks.

    Sam

    • Sam H,
      I agree that that perhaps the clues are from the TC hiding place. I’ve commented on this a couple times but no one has offered their views. I remember him saying something in response to a question, was it easy for you to come up with the clues. He responded something like, yes i simply had to put one foot down and step on it….. What ever he said, it sent up a flag to be open to see the poem “in reverse” the first clue is the hiding spot, but you need the last clue to tell you where to start.
      Arca

      • i have been thinking that, the first clue could be
        I can keep my secret where,The end is ever drawing nigh; IMO

        • That would be an interesting place to start. Best of luck in your search…your search to find the correct place to start. JDA

          • i read there was a early draft of the poem. saying look quickly down beyond the stones, take the chest but leave my bones..
            does any one , know the full version of the early draft of the poem ?

  12. I could have written the poem before [I wrote] I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t. f

    If read like this it made me think where did he write about hiding the treasure and write the poem, in the Gold And More chapter in TTOTC, and in that chapter he writes about hiding the treasure chest before he writes “so I wrote a poem containing nine clues…” Maybe he is telling us to look deeper into that chapter where he wrote he hid the treasure before he wrote the poem?

    I wrote this post before I wrote it.

    I could have written “it” before I wrote “this post”, but I didn’t.

  13. Here is my take on this: Assume Fenn and a “friend” worked together to create this treasure hunt. They have this perfect location in mind to hide a treasure chest and create poem to its location.

    In the statement “I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t”. Assume the first and third ‘I’s are the friend and the second one is Fenn himself so rewriting would be:

    “‘MyFriend could have written the poem before Fenn hid the treasure chest, but MyFried didn’t”.

    someone else could have written the poem but Fenn did.

    • I think that’s close. Check out the etymology of “alter ego:”

      “1530’s, from Latin phrase, “a second self, a trusted friend.”

      Then go back and read wiki article on id, ego and superego. Lol.

  14. An exciting bunch of words today at Jenny’s great site: “*I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t. f”

    It seems open-ended. How are we all finishing that last phrase in our heads?

    .. but I didn’t because my only opportunity to hide the chest came before I was totally done…

    .. but I didn’t because I wanted to make certain that all the clues are still valid…

    .. but I didn’t because I typed it.

    The best I can gather from this is that Forrest likes to play with contrast between explicit truth, and how a truth can be concealed in what sounds like its opposite.

  15. I don’t know how to phrase this…but isn’t the poem WHAT HID the chest?…I mean without clues and a poem wouldn’t he have only “left it somewhere”?

  16. ..as in he could have placed the chest at anytime but it was hidden WHEN he wrote the poem. Aka not before or after.

  17. I haven’t read all the postings [so it may have been mentioned ], but maybe the comment refers to a question…
    Did you ‘have to go’ the same way the poem tells us when you went to hid the chest? Another words did fenn “need to see the clues on site” to create them.
    A similar Q&A was asked, but I’m too lazy to go look for it.

    “I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, But I didn’t.”
    But I didn’t need to see physical landmarks before I hid the chest…

    Another option is; Who is I? I could have written the poem before fenn [i] hid the chest, but I didn’t, Fenn [i] did.

    Tend to bend words that are in a dictionary?
    Twist a word usage it to make it work?
    Two can keep a secret if one is dead?
    Need to nail down the first clue?
    Know where to start?

    Naaaa. The WW is straightforwards, right? Or is he just being honest.

    Oh right… This posting is just a thought, nothing more, no claims for accuracy, and only my opinion. No ego intended.

  18. I mean seriously….the poem says how he went there. How the heck could he have written about the trip before he took it? UNLESS the poem is ABOUT the trip from leaving the CHEST behind and going home. It’s not the trip TO hide it (before) it’s narrating the way FROM the “spot” back to his home (AFTER)…to then write the “title to the gold” aka TTOTC.

    Just ask TLGFI (©JParnell)

        • Certainly…but if one is trying to reconcile the WW statement one may assume the writing of the poem was PART of the hiding…as in “included in the same time span as”. The displayed “written poem” certainly came afterwards, whether it included the trip to or from I guess…yeah, good point. Guess it doesn’t really matter since it took 15 years either way. Thx pd 😉

          • ‘I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t.’

            Okay, if he didn’t write the poem before hiding the treasure chest, then one might assume he hid it “after” writing the poem. 🙂

            You’re welcome jonsey1. 🙂

          • Maybe his T9 wrote the poem for him 🙂 mine wrote my solution for me, but that’s another story. Lol

  19. His hiding partner could have written the poem before Forrest hid the chest but his hiding partner didn’t. He left the hiding partner in the sedan. The “I”s have it.

    • Maybe f could have written the poem before his hiding partner hid the treasure chest, but didn’t. He wrote the poem after his partner hid it, and since then his partner went to the great banquet table of history…..Nah, too many maybe’s, and too many different I’s.

  20. Maybe the poem that he is referring to isn’t the poem we are all analyzing.
    “It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.” ~ Mark Twain

    • Don’t think that is an actual quote by MT.
      I will have to go back to the book for his other poems & look in the mirror.
      Oh, it’s cracked even more than before.

      • MW Surprise Words 8/9/16. I omitted the first sentence. “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you in trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.” ~ Mark Twain

    • Don’t worry JBL, I’m sure once the doctors re-wire you and pop in a new set of fuses, you’ll be as good as new – so keep ya chin up.

      yes, your comments (on the other thread) do make logical sense, and could go along way in explaining why ‘a few’ have been within 200ft yet not sighted the blaze.

      no, I promise not to use your ideas in the future and have already deleted them from my memory ( ..what ideas?)

      yes, I will happily share the treasure with you, especially if someone else finds it.

      no, I don’t believe a shovel is vital either, as the poem is confusing enough for me, without the added complication of solving the mystery of how a shovel works too

      yes, I think you’re totally right in suggesting I’m totally wrong in my interpretation of ‘quickly’.

      no, you haven’t opened yourself to any criticism given that you seem to be the wisest one here, bar none – so no thick-skin is necessary.

      yes, I agree that you may be totally ‘nuts’, but it’s definitely the ‘sane’ ones that ya gotta worry about anyway.

      no, I had no idea there is an election going on in your country..

      (yes, that last comment was intended sarcasm, as we have even heard about the election here on Pluto)
      🙂

          • I’m having ‘send’ problems too – I just re-wrote a second message after the first one failed to send and instantly deleted, only to find the first copy mysteriously reappearing along with the second one.
            ( ..there’s 4 hours of my life I’ll never get back)

            Get well soon JBL
            🙂

  21. I think what he means is that the place he hid the treasure is so etched into
    his memory because its his favorite place and he has been there many times.
    He knew the exact directions before he hid it, and could have written the poem before he made his last trip there.

  22. This is a total side note…but these WW do make a really good point about some solutions. He didn’t follow a fantastic journey through places and then poetically place the chest at the end. He placed the chest and wrote the poem with clues on how to find it. Some of my old “theme” solutions would suggest he placed the chest to fit the poem…but the other way around…realizing the chest was the means and the clues were the ends left a whole different way of “following” the clues. And then putting what you follow them with in a line. Just IMO. WAYS+MEANS

      • + I think the first time he “hid” the chest it was under a red bandana….and he was hiding it from someone else…..but all she ever found were some books. If I ever found it id love to switch it right back out.

        • Were the books and bandana in the vault? This is where I thought he originally held the chest. For some reason, I keep visualizing the books and bandana sitting on a table of sorts in the main floor of the house.

    • Great point, Jonsey. The poem is tailored to fit the precise location, known vividly to Forrest before the poem was crafted. Realizing this, I think, allows us to look at the clues a little differently (rather than the location having to fit the poem).

  23. IMO, today’s words are similar to the July 13 2015 KTVQ CBS interview:

    ***
    “And when I walked back to my car, I talked to myself out loud — there was nobody around anyplace – and I said, ‘Forrest Fenn, did you really do that?’ And I started laughing.”

    Fenn then wrote a poem with nine clues placing the treasure somewhere in the Rockies….
    ***

    IMO, in fact, he wrote the poem twice, slightly differently, once in TTOTC, and once in TFTW. I would guess that, before he hid the treasure, F had a version of the poem memorized, just like many of us do now.
    Geoff
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  24. i don’t know but he left a good clue for me – with the treasure and gift of the widows mite – thank you mr forrest

  25. *I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t. f

    He didn’t write the poem until after he hid the treasure chess! But, it took him 15 years to write it? So he hid it in 1995 when he was 65 years old? I don’t think so.

    What I think he meant is that he worked on the poem, thinking, creating it in his mind for 15 years. Then after hiding the chest in 2009 or 2010 when he was 79 or 80 he finalized the poem and put it down in writing. He counted the clues later right before publishing the book.

    What he is saying is that he knew his special spot and area so well that he didn’t need to go there to write the clues that lead to the TC. He seems to have a scattered memory of time. Why did he say that he hid the TC 15 years after he got cancer? That would mean he hid it in 2003, but then he says he hid it when he was 79 or 80-2009 or 2010. That’s a difference of 6 or 7 years. Which is it? How about don’t search alone, and then he says, best to leave your partner in the car. This just shows his confusion with time and memory that he wont admit. It’s either that or it’s a big hoax. I don’t think it’s a hoax.

    He does seem to contradict himself a lot, but at his age that’s easy to do w/o even knowing it, plus I think he likes to keep us off balance to make us think.
    But, I don’t think he’s playing any games with the word “I”. IMO

  26. Don’t worry JBL, once the doctors re-wire you and pop in a new set of fuses, I’m sure you’ll be good as new again – so keep your chin up.

    yes, your earlier comments make logical sense, and go a long way in explaining why ‘a few’ have come within 200ft yet not sighted the blaze.

    no, I promise not to use your ideas in future, and have already deleted them from my memory ( ..what ideas?)

    yes, I’ll be more than happy to share the treasure with you, especially if someone else finds it.

    no, I don’t think a shovel is vital either, given that the poem is so confusing to me already, without further complicating it by having to solve the mystery of how a shovel works too.

    yes, I think you’re totally right in suggesting that I’m totally wrong in assuming that ‘quickly’ is the key word – I will promptly revisit that idea

    no, you have not opened yourself to criticism, given that you seem to be (to me) the wisest searcher here to date – so no thick-skin necessary today.

    yes, I agree that you may be totally ‘nuts’ – but it’s the ‘sane’ ones that ya gotta worry about anyway.

    no, I had no idea there is an election happening in your country.

    (yes, that last comment was intended sarcasm, given the fact that we have known about it for a while now, here on Pluto)

    Get well soon!
    🙂

  27. “I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t. f”

    When I first started this blog I wrote that Forrest was very particular with his words. I used the example that he would never make the statement-
    “I walked through the door.”
    Because Forrest knows he cannot walk through any door.
    A door is a sold object.
    But he would say that he walked through the doorway.
    Which is not a solid object and, in fact, is intended to be walked through.

    So maybe the key is in the word “written”…
    Maybe all Forrest did prior to hiding the chest was “type” the poem on his computer. He did not “write” it with his hand until after the chest was hidden.

    • Dal,

      It seems to me fenn has made comments and answered Q&A’s etc. to make us think. His style and words choice indicate this imo. But there always seems to be something wanted to be relayed in those.
      Your door conversation with fenn always stuck in my head on the common sense of word usage, and we have seen example of fenn [ more or less ] bending and giving a little twist to word definitions to make them work. But If true… writing to typing… Is there a thought provoking meaning to this WW? Or an example of how straightforwards is a perception?
      The fact that this WW seems unprovoked by a direct question or related with another comments, begs the question why say this at all if it was just typing to writing.

      Not unlike fenn’s last WW about, leaving your partner in the car.

      • Seek-
        I wondered the same thing after I finished that comment…why bother doing that..?

        Two possible conclusions I arrived at…
        1. Just to have fun…
        2. To make us think about how he uses words.

        If the answer is #2 then it’s possible he is giving us hints in these tidbits about how to solve the poem…How to look for the key word(s).

        Leading us to water but not making us drink…

        • I never met FF, but I do understand he has a sense of humor. I lean toward number two as well.
          My example for the last WW was possibly, trying to understand why would we leave anyone behind on a search? The wife? Kids? etc. Was it about a “partner” at all? or maybe a way to make us thinking the area is only large enough for one or must use single file type maneuvering.

          This comment, just like most, as me thinking… but I’m not truly sure what to think.

          • JW,

            I have a hard time believing Tarry scant might mean crab that chest and run before you get caught, like some have posted. Why would we bring family to be a lookout?
            Or no place for the meek could be a dangerous or very physical place… again if a three year old would need ‘some’ assistance to get to the chest, have a hard time believing a flashlight is for a single the park rangers are coming.
            or under the cover of a night time ops.

            But that’s just me.

          • Seeker, It was just a joke buddy.
            I understand all the points forrest has made about it been a family hunt and a kid would I have good opportunity to find the chest. Just try to light the mood. As today’s words from fenn have truly seem to stumb alot of us including me. So I hope no one take that statement and runs with it.

          • Seek-
            I think you are looking at extremes..
            I am with you about the concept that the chest is not in a dangerous place…for all the reasons you mention…
            However…what if the chest is in a “popular” place.One where you could be easily observed by others who are there for a different reason. For the sake of argument lets say it’s just off the road near the West Entrance to Yellowstone. If you saw the chest and grabbed it, others may see you do it and be curious about what you were doing…so it’s best not to waste a lot of time there..grab it and move on…
            I realize my example is preposterous and itself presents other issues…but perhaps you see my point..
            It does not have to be a “dangerous”place to be in a spot that you would want to “hurry up” when removing it…

          • JW, I’m pickin up whatcha puttin down…

            I figure as much… I just took advantage of your post to make a comment that has been making my skin crawl hearing about dangerous places and illegal activity involved with some solves… Hope you didn’t mind.

          • Dal,
            I see your point very well actually.
            The main north entrance to YSP is a place I considered long ago… the arch… and it’s nick name.
            But I’m still reminded of the need for two trips, and fenn’s comment “If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.”

            Several hours doesn’t seem a scant amount of time. lol, don’t mind me… sometimes I feel, I dissect myself right out of a possible perfect solve.

          • Seek-
            Note the way he worded that..
            He never said “You must make two trips and expect to be gone several hours.”
            Yet that is how he probably intended it to be interpreted..

            If I got out of my car and walked 20ft and picked up the chest in one trip and returned I would be following those directions…
            That is to say, I could certainly have made two from my car in less than several hours.

            I’m not saying that’s how it should be interpreted. I am simply saying there are many ways to fulfill that instruction and Forrest is a master at implying one thing while actually saying, writing or typing another…

          • Dal,
            I agree… fenn walked less than a few miles, is not an exact distance either. Although “Miles” might be an indicator which could be just slightly over a mile total with two trips… now we’re talking [possibly] approx 5290 feet. about 1320 feet one way.

            Fenn imo, isn’t going to hand us vital, critical info, but just look at the blog today… he sure can get a lot use out of a single sentences. The last two comments [specially] has raised an eyebrow… I just wondering what next weeks WW words will bring.

          • I can’t prove anyone is right or wrong. I can’t even defend my own point of view…but I agree with others who have said on this blog that the distance from where Forrest parked his car to where the chest is hidden is less than 100yds.

    • Dal – good call on written. “Written” is after the fact: done, completed, no more changes, finished. I see this just like his “last book” joke where he plays on the words.

      Here is how I see it, f could have been content with the poem the way it was when he hid the chest, but he wasn’t. So he made at least another change after hiding the chest and thus continued his effort to write the poem. The poem was therefore not finished, or written, until after he hid the chest.

      I could have written (had a finalized version of) the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t (because I made changes after hiding the chest). f

      But what is the point of him saying this? Mileage and confused searchers stumbling around in confusion? (He got that!) Or is there something he is trying to subtly suggest to us in generally related to how we must think when solving the poem?

      But then I might be completely wrong on this whole thing too, but at least I don’t feel confusion.

    • could this be a possible solution Dal?

      “The poem is really not so much written as it is an architectural plan. It’s been crafted.”

      • curious-
        That could be it…but where does that leave us..?
        If we are correct about “written”…what’s the next step in understanding how this “precision wording” occurs in the poem..

        I mean we have been playing with the words in the poem since day one..
        How does this revelation (if it is one) help us to do more than we already have been doing???

        • I was just about to ask you that…….So what now if you are correct?

          His weekly words seem to make a point or have a purpose. He’s told us not to search in the winter; some of us search in the winter anyway like I do. Sometimes we disagree on what he meant but we agree he meant something.

          I’m like Seeker……..Wondering what’s the purpose of this statement. Does it matter when he wrote the poem?

        • Q: Did the same 9 clues exist when you were a kid and to your estimation will they still exist in 100 years and 1000 years? “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia.”

          “I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t. f”

          Just a thought here… could fenn had made the poem at the time he was a kid and invented the clues then, if he had the forethought of doing so?

          “But most of the places the clues refer to did.” Is this say only places or could it be saying, the places did, but most of the clues are places, but not all?
          Or a little more clarity; “most” of the clues, are references of “places”. The other clues [ no places ] might have existed if fenn had the forethought. “I could have written the poem before I hid the chest…”

          There’s a link here somewhere to this WW.

          • How do we justify a 15-year time frame for writing the poem, then having to rewrite part of it because he got well, if he made the poem when he was a kid?

          • PD,

            Look closely at what I said. Could fenn have written the poem when he was a kid… if he had the the “forethought.”

            We know the clues didn’t exists because fenn hadn’t “thought” of the clue until 88′

            But IF he wanted to write the poem when he was a kid… could he have been able to? with the ‘thought’ of doing so ‘ at that time ‘

            If so, is there importance of know he “could have written the poem” Not only prior to the hiding of the chest, but even prior to getting ill or in the military or married or the passing of his father or friends etc. IF he had the forethought of doing so.

          • Maybe he did not write the poem first because he was waiting for something about the location where he hid the chest to change… To make sure the clues would fit???

          • OH C’mon! Spallies.
            Just when I thought I cracked the case… you come in and make me think even harder!

            Is there a place where waters disappear at a certain time of year? and always has.
            refills into a shallow pool that fills only during the wet season. [not moving waters]

            Great! See what ya did… now ya got me thinking the chest is wet.

            What kinda changes are you thinking?

          • Those questions are pretty deep and I’m not sure if we truly will know the answers. If the clues didn’t exist when he was a kid, nor would his knowledge that he would have cancer in 1988, etc.. If you are asking if he could have written the poem when he was a kid, because when he was a kid, he knew of these places, or most places? I would guess anything is possible, although I think he may have already answered this part.

            Would he have done any of this if he hadn’t got cancer?

          • PD,
            I understand what you’re saying. My thought to the WW words is, could fenn be saying he could have written the poem anytime before in his life.
            Cancer was the reason for to kick start all of this… to take it with him… to challenge the masses to get out and search, influence the next generation etc.

            I [ff]could have written the poem before any of those events. I [ff] could have written the clues [thought of] out at any point of time in my life…

            The 15 years part to me is ‘indecision if the key to flexibility’ the dedication on his part to get everything situated. Buy the chest, collect the items wanted, write the book to present the poem, plan the execution of it all. However, nothing to do with what the clues refer to.

            Line of thought here is… it was a much different world when fenn was younger, and if the poem could have been written prior to all the above and what we know kicked starting this… then cancer may not play a roll in the solve, children or family may not play a roll, friends etc.
            The question might be… How far back in time could fenn have written the poem with the clues provided? Will understanding this help with understanding the clues? And if so… does this help with those “subtle hints” in the book fenn talks about.

          • He knew beforehand where he was going to hide the treasure. He could have written the poem than but waited until after he hid the treasure.
            I believe the wait was only to see if the location was ignored by passerby,s. 🙂
            Who create,s a treasure map and then hides the treasure?
            The key word here is “before”. Like Dal says above “door” verse,s ” doorway”.
            IMHO. 🙂

        • I’m only guessing here, but Forrests comment is unlikely to be a clue, with a mild chance of it not even being a hint.

          so, what if he’s just enticing us to think more deeply – to keep our minds limber over the long winter months?
          (his comment has certainly exercised all three of my brain-cells in unison – with one that has possibly fainted from the exertion)

          I’m leaning toward your option #1 though Dal – maybe he’s just teasing us while having a quiet chuckle to himself, at the commotion his comment has caused.. that’s what I’d do 🙂

          • Curious, You may be right. I think it may serve both purposes. To make us think and to give him a grin.We all need a laugh sometimes. Speaking of which your posts always make me chuckle. I needed a laugh this morning so thanks 🙂

  28. The poem could have written itself like he mentions TTOTC doing. You know, so he wouldn’t struggle.

  29. *If you have a searching partner, best to have them wait in the car. f

    a couple of possibilities for me..

    1. “them” maybe “them” does not refer to “a searching partner” as we would assume. Maybe “them” is something else that needs to wait in the car that your searching partner needs to stay with…could “them” be the contents of the chest…maybe he means after you found the chest its best to have your search partner stay in the car to keep an eye on the contents of the chest.

    2. Maybe your searching partner waits in the car because that’s where you are too. Maybe you don’t need to get out of the car to search for the treasure. Maybe the best way to search for the treasure is from your car? Maybe you don’t need to get out of your car except at the very last moment to grab it. Maybe you can even see the chest from your car.

    3. Maybe the key is the word car. Maybe it’s not YOUR car that the partner waits in. Maybe some other kind of car…This brought to mind when one of the searchers was convinced the location of the chest was inside the Oregon Short Line 1903 railroad car that is inside the Branch Restaurant in West Yellowstone. This was before Forrest eliminated man-made structures as a possible hidey spot for the chest. This was at least three years ago.
    They snuck into that car to look around..I can’t remember if they got caught but the chest wasn’t there anyway…or at least they didn’t find it there..Was that Honeywilson? I can’t remember…
    http://www.visityellowstonepark.com/oregon-short-line.aspx

    • Hmmm, Is a rail car a man made “structure”? Sure it’s man made. but a structure is free stand… bridge, building, statue, outhouse, etc.
      Is an automobile a structure? is a man made doll or bike or a plane, a motor-home? I know a mobile home is a structure.
      There is a difference to man made and structure. Can a landmark of such, be a structure? or just a rail car, and if turned into a restaurant, now be a structure?
      Ok, now my head hurt. lol.

      • Seek-
        The whole car is inside the restaurant..certainly if the chest was in the car it would also be in the structure that houses the restaurant.

        • Who builds a dang restaurant around a train car? lol. Is the food any good? If I’m up that way, I’ll have to stop by now.

          I have been to many type of dinners that utilize cars on a single section of tracks… but I never seen one inside a restaurant. That will be a first for me.

          • Seeker,

            Have you seen the rail cars inside the Crowne Plaza Hotel in downtown Indianapolis? They make great hotel rooms!

            ~ Wisconsin Mike

          • Never been to Wisconsin. Michigan, Illinois and every stated east of the Mississippi, but not Wisconsin, oh and flew to Las Vegas a number of time… I have never been to any other states west of the Mississippi. I need to get out more.
            PS… don’t speed in Virginia, those state patrols don’t love anyone.

    • Maybe the key word is is “searching ”
      search and searching have two different meanings and seem like search is more of a straight forward hunt of something. And searching is Scrutinizing every little thing.
      So more or less kinda say keep or friend in the box.

    • Yeah, get out of your car at no place for the meek. No place for the easily burdened so you are walking from there with the potential of walking back with weight. A couple times, if you’re old or out of shape. Imo. I think. Jic. Imho. I grovel.

    • *If you have a searching partner, best to have them wait in the car. f

      Say you have a partner & your partner is reading the same statement & thinking the same thing about you.

      You are also that persons partner.
      So maybe you both should stay in the car?
      I don’t think so.

      This whole statement is now thrown in the trash bin because you’re both partners to each other.

      • Perhaps you could pull the statement out of the trash bin once more. Is it possible his statement was misunderstood? What you’ve posted makes sense. Just maybe there’s more to it? I’m not sure, but I’d hate to see anyone walk away from it.

    • OK,
      I just pulled it out of the trash bin.
      Seeing your both partners, we will have to go with some of dal’s #1 above.
      “1. “them” maybe “them” does not refer to “a searching partner” as we would assume.”

      So what is “them” that can wait in the car that searching partners do not need now they are both going to search?

    • You too? I mean horseshoes, house shoes, no shoes, tire shoes, look quickly down shoes. What’s with the shoes? Too far to walk shoes, twist and bend them a little shoes. A redneck with 12 kids, that’s a lot of shoes!!! IMO, sorry for the tangent, I’m done now. Quietly lurking back to my seat. 🙂

  30. The illusion is becoming more abstract every day. Forrest’s words become more or less what we each interpret them to mean. As we share on the blogs and read other’s ideas our own thoughts meld with others and become an aberration that makes us believe what is comfortable to understand. To undo this process is nearly impossible, but necessary to get back to the task at hand; Find that dang Box before we all end up in the funny farm. I’m on a special mission now….

    • Ken,
      It does seem that way … all our thoughts make us believe what is comfortable to understand… the majority rules line of thinking.

      Personally, I use this forum for a check and balance to keep me from those tempertantrums …I mean tangents.

      • A couple of posters have touched on the idea that I think forrest is trying to point to with this comment; but I do not think they know what it is exactly…it all could mean nothing really, just a man having a little fun.

        • If the time comes when we don’t have fun with it… then we need to reevaluate things.
          However fenn know we all wait for, anticipate these comments. I don’t think fenn is simply is just having fun, but having fun with how we can over react to a more simple explanation, because he was clever in how he wrote what he did.

          The more I think about this WW and with thoughts of many other comments over the years, I’m leaning to the thought the poem “could” have been written prior to 1988… or even when fenn was younger. [ not in actuality, but clues availability ] But obviously he “didn’t”

          So if reasonably true, the kitchen sink method that most or all of the book is needed, many or all of the SBs are needed etc. for clue findings missions are not really needed. And maybe, just maybe neither is the ‘backstory’ of why fenn started this whole process. The cancer scare and taking it with him etc.

          Hypothetical; fenn @ 13 years of age takes his handmade marbles and hides them in the same place… writes the same poem and works just has hard on it, for friends and family and all who read the poem to find where he hid the marbles [ in one of the four states].
          Could it be done?
          And if so… what are we missing in understanding that possibility? Is this the reason for this WW comment.
          ~I could have written the poem prior to the thoughts / reasons for the chest… but that is not the way it happened ~ obviously.

          • Just so I am clear on the subject, and not inferring anything…
            Is fenn’s latest weekly words part of a Previously submitted list given to Jenny,
            or, is it a new post just given to her?
            I am sure this has been discussed and I may have missed it. I know she clarified at one time…

          • Seeker,
            That certainly makes sense. Like he’s saying take a step back and look at it from a bit different perspective, as if he wrote it before. No need to stretch a tangent, keep it simple, etc.
            I like you thoughts here.

    • I’ll never end up in one of those ‘funny farms’ Ken, that’s for certain!

      nope, I’m quite ‘sanely’ content with my hotel thanks ..the friendly staff, in their crisp white uniforms, that offer free sweets morning, noon and night (kindly insisting I chose one of every colour) with a complimentary cup of water – such generosity.

      ..the unparalleled security with triple-bar windows, the endless marbled corridors, the sparsely decorated ‘vogue’ lobby with its many scribbled pictures (probably priceless Pollocks)

      ..they even issue each guest with our own personal jacket (although mine’s not entirely comfortable, and the sleeves are way too long)

      so, no Ken, I”m quite happy where I am, and will certainly never end up in of those ‘fu… oh, wait a minute!?

        • ..and here’s me thinking it was ROLL-TIDE in the adjacent cell (tapping away on his imaginary lap-top and singing very badly)

          any idea how I can escape this pesky jacket?
          (tap twice on the wall for ‘yes’)
          🙂

      • c hobbit…I really enjoy the humor you bring to the table. It kinda lightens up the page a bit and takes the edge off some of the bad vibes that rear up here and there.
        Your funny farm seems a bit more sterile and stuffy compared to the cartoon skit I imagine…anyway… back to the salt mines( poemology 101A with f fenn officiating).

  31. Asterisk – ********************

    Asterisk also means little stars…..

    Don’t you think the arterisk may be an important part of what he wrote. He’s used the asterisk in the last few weekly words…………BOTH before and after.

    Page 15 ttotc is the large astrisk in the book. That chapter is IMPORTANT LITERATURE and does not have a postmark – but it does have an asterisk.

    Well, if you figure out why – let me know OK ?

    • *Sooner or later each of us will be nothing but the leftovers of history or an asterisk in a book that was never written. (TTOTC)

      IMO, the TTOTC is a memoir, his unauthorized autobiography is yet to be written until the chest and little olive jar is found.

      • IMO Asterix is a reference to the comic book which Marvel ran for a time (I think Marvel did an issue or two). Asterix was acute little guy, but the most useful about him is the etymology of his name, which I think you can find on the wiki page about him. Aster, ix, and rix.

    • That was one of my thoughts when I read it yesterday. Thought it could have meant it was posted in his computer. After rereading your post, you got me thinking once more.

      • Seems to be the only thing that makes sense & doesn’t contradict anything else he said prior.
        Multiple definitions of the word “written”.
        Pick one that doesn’t contradict anything.

      • I’m going over the video:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti2peP8jWYM&feature=youtu.be
        Forrest Fenn, Collected Works Bookstore, 10-22-2013

        This guy is killing me, he says he wrote the poem, then says he didn’t, then he says it’s WRITTEN by an architect.

        (30:50) “It took me 15 years to write the poem, I’ve changed it so many times, I’ve said before, I didn’t write that poem, it was written by an architect. Each word is deliberate.”

        • Jake I take this as saying he was dedicated to make it work. It had to be created just right or it would fall apart.. if one thing was out of whack, none of it would work. He [FF] didn’t ‘just’ write it, it was designed [ architect attitude ] not to fall apart… with stand the test of time… example; he created a pyramid. We need to see how he built it.

          Sorry if that is tooo abstract in thought… maybe he just hired another to write the poem and waited for that person to die… two can keep a secret if one is dead… seems logical enough.

          • Well, we obviously know he was very dedicated, that goes without saying.
            Considering he mentioned architect, I can see that it was designed & not necessarily written & yes everything has to work including 1,000 years down the road.

            LOL, No he didn’t hire an architect to create the poem….

            I am beginning to think he sometimes doesn’t remember what he has said in the interviews & that’s pretty normal with all of us & he probably doesn’t go over them again to see what he said before he creates the WW.

            His reply to dal?
            ” but that’s the way I remember it”

          • IMO, Forrest is a spiritual person. The spirit of an architect helped him construct the poem. He didn’t think his ability alone would cut it. In my mind, when he talks about writing the book about his dolls, he channeled the spirits of the dolls to help him write it.

          • PD,

            I was being a bit sarcastic there, as to, someone else wrote the poem.

            Just for fun, let’s explore that for a moment… could the poem fenn designed be anther poem changed over or an important piece of literature?

            Our singing of our National Anthem was a poem before a song.

            LoL. Even I’m not that abstract in thoughts… skip I even brought that up.

          • That’s an interesting thought. As FF is known to borrow quotes, maybe the lines of the poem aren’t entirely his own.

          • Seeker, I believe his words are of his own. There’s a program that teachers can check their students works to be sure it’s their own. Do I believe some words could be similar to the Masters? Yes. When one reads The Works, we each can produce the same language, if that makes any sense. During our growing years in school, we were “taught” how things should/ought to be. Again, being “trained” so to speak.

        • https://youtu.be/JXupxL4ovmY

          11-02-2013

          In this interview FF say it was 15 years from the time he got cancer to the time he hide the treasure chest. 14 minutes in.

          In the interview you pointed out all he say is it toke him 15 years to right the poem he does not state when he began writing the poem.

          Maybe he finished the poem and hid the chest at the same time.

          • Ya JW,
            There has been some lengthy discussions about that & some like 2003 as the hiding date & others stuck with 2010-2011 & now he comes out with this statement & muddies the waters even more.

            It seems like the more he makes statements & interviews the more clouded the whole picture gets or maybe it’s his way of letting us know how the poem was designed & needs to be read.

          • FGM 7,
            FORREST
            Will you talk to someone that solved your poem before they go get it.And by talk I mean explain why there but they would tell you where since your memory is fading Forrest Fenn

            My memory is fading so fast I don’t remember what you said. Can you tell me again please. f

        • Or maybe we’re all missing a big point. If he could have written the poem first. Let’s think about what the poem is saying.

          The poem is leading us to gold, a treasure, his trove.

          So that would me those things would have to be there. So maybe he has been hiding things in this spot for awhile. Maybe he found gold or treasure at this spot. That’s why it’s the end of HIS rainbow

          • JW,
            It’s possible… but are you thinking this way or at least this one thought, because rainbow could refer to the leprechaun pot of gold?
            If I were to use this… I would try to think what is “Gold” to fenn. Gold in this chase, imo, is nothing more than a lure… fenn sold us the challenge at first for riches, and now most find it much more than that.
            My thought would go to the Clovis collection as a possible idea… and maybe fenn actually found where the points taken from. The ‘gold’ for fenn may have been the chase… finding where they came from.
            Can you imagine how hard that would be not to tell the exact location, but instead, just knowing you did it was satisfaction enough. And now he used that place in the poem.

            I only give this as an example so, folks don’t forget that the chest is not in a mine [ gold mine ] or another place like that… the lure of “gold-riches” makes us forget things.

            Another thought, in this line of thinking… is “riches” new and old meant as new knowledge of old finds… artifacts?

            But I have to ask… does the poem lead us to the treasure? This place was the “only” place fenn thought of… the gold [treasure] is a bonus. What is fenn really leading us to when he referenced Rainbow before the Treasure?

          • Your very correct Seeker. Gold to fenn is not necessarily GOLD .
            So yes I like what your saying. It’s the same train of thoughts I have.

  32. is there not a train in y.s. that has a bear on the side of it -there is a place south of west airport called home of the train -Yellowstone valley railroad-I saw it on a map(cant find it now)just throwing it in for H.O.B.

    • whiker-
      There is no train inside Yellowstone National Park. There is a museum in West Yellowstone that used to be the railroad terminal but that line was abandoned years ago unfortunately, so you cannot take a train to the entrance of Yellowstone anymore.

  33. “I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t. f”

    This seems like a contradictive statement knowing that he said that he worked on the poem for 15 years. But, think about this, this is his way to reconcile his statement reciting that it was 15 years from the time he got cancer to when he hid the treasure chest (all the while working on how to construct his poem). He said treasure chest, not treasure. This would fit with him saying the above statement. He hid the empty TC in his special spot in 2003 (testing the spot), then he wrote the poem after hiding it. Later, he came back got the chest and filled it with the goodies, showed some of his friends, took some pictures and took it back out in 2009 or 10 to hide it for good. In this scenario none of these statements are contradictive.

    I could have “ritt in” the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t.
    Lol. A good laugh.

    • Ritt,

      I was thinking something similar, what if Forrest did hide the treasure chest before he wrote the poem, but then, before publishing it, he decided he wanted to change or add to the contents of the chest so he went back and got it and that is when friends and family saw the chest and it’s contents. Maybe that is when he decided to change the name from Tarzan to Indulgence. Also he recently posted “an early arrangement” of the chest and it’s contents in SB 158, maybe that was the original pic of the chest he took, hid, and was going to use but then it took him longer than he expected to “craft” the poem and in that time he acquired more or different treasures he wanted to include so he went back and got it, changed the contents, and then hid it again in the same place. Maybe in the 15 years it took him to write the poem and “think of everything” he realized he wanted to put something or some things in the chest that would better let him “know” if somebody found it, like an IOU that he says he can’t remember if he included or not, or the bracelet that he says he wants back. Or just that he had acquired some more interesting things that he realized he wanted to include in the chest.

      If this is the scenario I am not sure why we need to know this at this point, it seems to just confuse things, but it is a possibility and who knows, maybe there is a hint in there somewhere.

      • Good thinking, Mark.

        That’s probably when he removed the two watches and large gems before hiding it for the last time. I think he hid the TC first in 2003 whether it was full or not, then wrote the final poem to put in his memoir. Later hid it again in the same place.

        Forrest once answered me in an email and said what difference does it make when I hid it, you should be looking for wwwh. And he’s right, it doesn’t make any difference.

        • Ritt, Mark
          Scenario;
          Fenn loads up the chest, take two trips to the hide, and this is approx. 2003. At this time the autobiography would most likely be in the chest with all the goodies. The returns to retrieve the chest and removes items? [ watches? ] and possibly add the mirrors at that time or something. and now a third trip with everything exactly the way he wants… sits down and write the book, finalizes the poem and publish all Jan. 2010. All while other know of the chest, seen it, knows of some of fenn’s intention ~ “to take it with him”

          That’s seems like a lot of chances for things to go wrong. Grand kids and or friends notice the chest gone and back again. Three times [ trips from home ] up and back to hide the chest and on location… happening over a period of approx. 7 years 2003 – 09 or 10.
          While we don’t know exactly the events that occurred, doesn’t this route seem [ for lack of a better term ] un-fenn like. He seems to have planned this very well, and told us it was one of the very few things he ever actually planned out. This seems very chancy to me to get caught or have other questioning. GrandPa you said the chest was gone and now it’s back?

          Preston and the other gentleman in one video tell they saw the chest over time, S. Summer tells of seeing it, others as well etc. I got the opinion that those folks may have seen it many time over the years. and there was the possibility [ if i recall ] some one seeing as late as 2008 [ don’t quote me on that ]. I don’t know guys… it all sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

          But IF any of that was remotely true… you would have to ask… where or how is this thing hidden and being so protected that folks would have seen it “after” the supposed first [ trial run ] hide and the final hide and not show wear of being in nature for any length of time?

          • Seeker, what you say here makes perfect sense.

            Now, why would he say something that seems the antithesis of everything he has said to this point?

            “I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t. f”

            I see nothing contradictory in this statement. The words are indicative of “how” the Poem is written…. not the order of when the chest was hidden or the poem written.


            J. D. Salinger could have written The Catcher in the Rye before he got into the fling of things, but he didn’t.

          • Ritt that was my point.
            But, JCM ask if you would share the e-mail… I think he meant show us exactly what transpired. I mean, there are other who claim fenn stated the same… yet I don’t believe we have ever heard it or saw it in writing direct from fenn.

            So if you do … I’m sure JCM and I aren’t the only ones who would like to see exactly when and how fenn stated it.

          • Loco ~ “Seeker, what you say here makes perfect sense.”

            lol… Sometimes I get lucky.

            I see the WW the same as you. The question is now. During what time in fenn’s life could it have been written.
            {if fenn had the thought of doing so}
            If we’re ‘guessing’… when fenn was a young teen, it would help as far as location location and lack of location. Such as historical sites not present, monuments, Molly brown house has only been a museum since the mid 70’s etc.

            I have asked the question about, could Osbourne solve the clues? or in a 10,000 year’s can someone solve the clues? Many came back with a relatively, nope.
            But as of late, I see, imo, that deciphering a clue and knowing might be a horse of a different color… even when on site. [ again, an observation of what I have read. ]

            All I can say right now is….Hmmmm!

          • Seeker, JCM,

            JCM didn’t ask to share the email, only if it was the exact wording. I’m not going to show you or anyone a copy of the email but this is his exact answer (except he used my real name) to the question as to if he hid it in 2003 or 2009/10.

            11-22-2013
            “Why are you making such a big deal out of that Ritt? What difference does it make? You should be looking for where warm waters halt.” f

            Now you can believe it or not. If you think about it, it doesn’t matter in the quest to find the TC. It would only matter if he hid it or not, and if he didn’t hide it then why are you and everyone searching for it. So in my opinion, and almost everyone’s opinion on this blog, he did hide it.

          • I’m going to buy that Ritt:
            “11-22-2013
            “Why are you making such a big deal out of that Ritt? What difference does it make? You should be looking for where warm waters halt.” f

            I don’t see anything here that raises a red flag, nor do I see it as helping you or anyone unless you start to speculate that WWWH is the 1st clue which he did not say.

            He has also blurted similar statement about need to know WWWH in at least one interview, so nothing new here.

            But I will say I am biased & think WWWH is the 1st clue & when figured out, will help you with location of the treasure.

          • Seeker…
            I think forrest likes to stir things up quite a bit. When I put myself in his shoes(not literally…his footwear looks uncomfortable) I can see having a blast with all the different roads folks have gone down. His gift for word play and shape shifting ideas adds a lot of static and noise that has a tendency to side track keeping things simple and straight. At this juncture, with his recent comments, for me it is going to be crucial to stay on the neutral side of things I see and read(chase related).
            Did he hide it prior to when he says he did? The Treasure, I mean. Why in the heck would he go to those lengths to undermine something he worked his whole life for? That makes ZERO sense…I like your ideas and look forward to more. You too fred…

          • Ritt,
            Why are you bring up IF hidden or not? There is no posting of mine that asked such a question. Nor in JCM’s that I can find.

            If you don’t want to show the e-mail… well imo, I can’t take your word. This is a fact finding only challenge for a chest full of gold and jewels…
            You said ” I’m not going to show you or anyone a copy of the email”
            Then why bother “quoting fenn” at all, if you want is to tell ~ but no show?

          • Seeker,,

            Why are you so worked up on this? Are u the blog cop? He has told everyone we should be looking for wwwh, and if we don’t have that one nailed down we just as well go home and play canasta. Why do u need to see an email? It doesn’t matter.

          • Ya Ritt,
            You tell him!
            Oh, wait a minute,
            That’s not what Forrest said Ritt.
            Maybe you should go back & research some more to get your quotes straight.

            I believe he was talking about the 1st clue, not WWWH.

          • Ritt ~ “Seeker,, Why are you so worked up on this? Are u the blog cop? He has told everyone we should be looking for wwwh, and if we don’t have that one nailed down we just as well go home and play canasta. Why do u need to see an email? It doesn’t matter.”

            Blog cop…lol… you have me mistaken for another… too funny. But nice try! At least you gave it a twist making your end run.
            Where did fenn say;
            as you claim ~He has told everyone we should be looking for wwwh, and if we don’t have that one nailed down we just as well go home and play canasta.~?

            Actual quote; “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta.”

            Where do you have a direct quote from fenn that states what you claim. implying wwwh is ‘the’ first clue?
            Not some reporters comments in an articular, not another searcher stating so… said directly from Forrest Fenn.

            Make a claim that quotes fenn… needs back up. Not assumptions.

          • Forrest makes it sound like the first clue even to me thru several
            Emails and also emails to several
            Other people You must find WWH or ya won’t find the rest of the clues

          • You tell him DG, Seeker doesn’t seem to understand what f is saying. No wonder he is so confused and needing to ask so many questions, that’s all we see from him. Why does he need f need to come out and say wwwh is the first clue. If he can’t figure that one out then there is no hope for him. I’m with you on this one.

          • Ritt ~ “You tell him DG, Seeker doesn’t seem to understand what f is saying. No wonder he is so confused and needing to ask so many questions, that’s all we see from him. Why does he need f need to come out and say wwwh is the first clue. If he can’t figure that one out then there is no hope for him. I’m with you on this one.”

            Tell me what?! Seriously the only thing being said is, fenn has mentioned wwwh in an e-mail. How many times have we had this exact assumptions with e-mails; ~ ff told me in an e-mail this or that ~ and when the e-mail is finally produced, it’s nothing like the claim stated… do you remember the Late Breaking News posting of one searcher earlier this year?
            You made a claim Ritt, that fenn told you wwwh is the first clue, yet with what little info you stated, it doesn’t say that at all. That is an assumption on your part only.
            We, the readers on the blog have no concept of the conversation to go by, you simply want to tell us, fenn told you personally…
            So I asked you to “show” us, and you literally coward out, and then to hide behind your excuses not to back up your claim, attempting to make this about me! I’m playing Blog cop, I’m so confused I can only ask question and that is all y’all ever see from me. Implying I don’t add anything to the blogs conversation.
            That’s a punk end run, and others have tried the same BS, when they don’t like being called out on their wild, unproven claims… That BS has gone beyond ridiculous, to simply lame, boring and childish.

            So Yes! Tell me what?! I would really like to know. Because so far all that is being told, is nothing more than another know-it-all searcher who think fenn is telling them something as proof positive and nothing to back it up… again!

          • Ritt – Thanks for posting the exact words from the email above. I find the statement on wwwh to be very interesting.

            For all the statements where f talks about not chasing after hoB and the blaze clues, but to focus on figuring out the first clue, here he is telling you specifically one of the clues to be looking for. Apply his other comments to this and there is the sound logic of what wwwh seems to be to a number of people, though I am sure others will strongly disagree.

          • JCM,

            I just posted above to Ritts response to the e-mail… I find it interesting that you can take this information as factual, or remotely accurate without something to back it up. And now added what you said “For all the statements where f talks about not chasing after hoB and the blaze clues, but to focus on figuring out the first clue, here he is telling you specifically one of the clues to be looking for. Apply his other comments to this and there is the sound logic of what wwwh seems to be to a number of people,…”

            I didn’t see anything in Ritt’s post that even suggested wwwh might be the first clue. How is there “sound logic” ? Because many simply think it should be?
            Sorry guys… this is how rumors get kicked off. [ yep, fenn said wwh is defiantly the first clue, I heard it on a blog ].

          • “Why are you making such a big deal out of that Ritt? What difference does it make? You should be looking for where warm waters halt.” f

            Wasn’t Fenn clear when he said he would never help or assist no individual searcher? If anything, he was being playful which will make me more suspicious of wwwh.

          • Just in reading what I have here from both sides (and being slightly biased to time as a major factor)…I might favor that WWWH is a certain period of time that he hid it. Maybe during the Ice Age …or when he walked away from his “tackle box” (the chest) for the last time. The second instance would literally “make no difference” if Ritt looked for WWWH, or tried to find when he hid it. Something about the phrasing has me picturing F smiling to himself as he wrote it. Just my take on an answer that might please everyone.

    • Ritt, you wrote: “He hid the empty TC in his special spot in 2003 (testing the spot), then he wrote the poem after hiding it. Later, he came back got the chest and filled it with the goodies, showed some of his friends, took some pictures and took it back out in 2009 or 10 to hide it for good. In this scenario none of these statements are contradictive.”

      I hope I’m not repeating what others may have already pointed out … don’t we have a statement that says two trips were made in one afternoon? Once to take the treasure to the spot, and the second trip to take the chest? (so, the treasure and chest was hidden on that same day?)

      • I re-read your post, now see your point. You’re supposing that he hid the chest twice, once empty and much later, full.

        In that scenario, the chest would be well-protected as to not acquire signs of deterioration.

  34. Just a couple thoughts from a seldom poster: On Mr. Fenn’s website the poem is titled THE POEM. Perhaps this title was written after the chest was hidden.

    Regarding leaving your search partner in the car, perhaps Mr. Fenn was referring to your pet. How many searchers search with their pet dog and refer to him\her as “my search partner”? I think Cynthia does. There’s always the chance your partner might chase after a squirrel or other critter and then you’d be searching for two treasures.

    jdh

    • BINGO!

      clever thinking jdh, and the best possible solutions so far IMO
      – all my money’s on you mate.
      🙂

      (note to self: quickly find some money)

  35. Hey, I got an idea, forget about the poem for a minute and let’s play a game where we see if someone can guess what next week’s weekly words will be…….

    • Many possibilities, Fenngshui. No one has responded and since your post remained quiet, I’ll guess silence. I really have no idea. Thought I would have fun since no one answered. 🙂

    • I am going to go out on a limb and predict that Forrest will say something both perplexing, and profound, and that it will NOT be off of the pile. Forrest has been quiet a bit too long for him not to be chomping at the bit to say something that will get our juices flowing – as if last Friday’s post didn’t.

      JDA

    • He will probably say something like ” it’s best to bring a boat, but not to put in the water” lol 🙂

    • Given my obvious talent for clairvoyancy, I mysteriously confidently ‘know’ that Forrests next tid-bit of advice will undoubtedly be..

      “don’t forgot to remember to chase your invisible tail, that you never thought you ever knew you didn’t realise that you may or not know to chase, even though you can’t see it, or never suspected it existed, nor ever guessed it should, therefore never expecting that it could or would, or not, be viably chased in the first place, or otherwise similarly similar.”

      You can quote me on that Fenngshui ..!
      🙂

      • We’ll see if you’re correct, curious hobbit. Wait, you did say you’re a clairvoyant? I knew you were going to say that! 🙂

      • obviously I had previously predicted that you already knew (that you already knew) what I was going to say previously, already.. obviously.

        oh wait, they’re pushing a dinner tray through the slot in my door ..and it’s beans on dry bread again – yum!

        (wishin you were here too, pdenver)
        🙂

  36. Fenngshui on October 16, 2016 at 10:13 pm said:
    Hey, I got an idea, forget about the poem for a minute and let’s play a game where we see if someone can guess what next week’s weekly words will be…….

    If you think I’m yanking the top two links in your chain, turn it around.

    🙂

    • Need to nail down the first clue.
      Searchers are looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues, but you can’t start in the middle of the poem and find the treasure.
      Said things people think are clues.
      C’mon now agent 777, a map is a map.
      Few in tight focus of the word that is key.
      Said searchers should go back to the poem.
      They underestimate the importance of the first clue.
      I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues.
      Need to start at the beginning.
      Don’t dwell long enough on the first clue.
      If you start chasing horseshoes you may go crazy.
      Steve’s Q&A in part;
      a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
      b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
      Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence.
      Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues. Although others were at the starting point I think their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem.
      Playing a hunch is not worth much in the search and those who start out by looking for the blaze, are wasting their time.
      Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close.
      No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds  the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.
      You will ignore the poem at your own peril.
      There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest.
      “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f
      Most of the searchers are very bright and make intelligent comments, either by email or on the blogs, but there seems to be more attention paid to the blaze than to the first clue [[ ? ]]. Perhaps that’s why the treasure hasn’t been found. f

      Anyone one else see a pattern here?

      That is how you write a fortune cookie!

      • You may think I was being funny, using fenn’s comment as my own thoughts, or even being sarcastic. But read them carefully.

        • Hi Seeker – My response (and poor attempt at humor) wasn’t intended to be a response to yours, just f’s new Q&A.

          When I initially read your list of f’s comments, I noted that there are some that weren’t specifically in reference to the first clue, is there something that I should be catching that my greasy fingers are letting slip away?

          It seems to me that f is just leaving everything status quo even though Jenny gave him a nice question where he could have given something of additional value. f seems to think that he has given us all the puzzle pieces, and apparently we just need to figure out how to put the puzzle pieces together now. And apparently picking one random piece up of this 50,000 piece puzzle and trying to fit it to the next random piece isn’t turning out to be very effective.

  37. An interesting post. Think less about the blaze, and think more about, “As I went alone in there…” Hummmm JDA

    • If, big IF, that is the first clue which I don’t think F has ever confirmed and I beg to differ so in other words IMO.

      • Forrest would never confirm that it is the first clue.

        It is the first line of the first stanza. To me that means something. I think that ALL of stanza #1 = the first clue…but what do I know? NADA JDA

  38. I want this for the next question Forrest says he gives no one personal hints but why did he write Stephan and tell them
    Only fools would be fighting over what tool
    To use to dig out the chest as the other walks away with it Sounds to me we don’t need to dig it up then or we don’t need a tool that should be public for all to hear What do y’all think ? We need a tool or no tool ?

        • Yep, thinking all you need are your hands to lift with and the gray matter between your ears…

          • I don’t adhere to what is posted by a searcher from personal e-mails… those have been unreliable in the past. But if accurate to the wording, it does give a little more insight to how fenn uses words in a sentence to make you think.
            The key word here is ‘what’… it begs the use of a ? to follow… reading more like;
            What tool? are these fools thinking they need to fight over.
            My favorite examples of these types of wordings is, an advertising flier for jacket sales… Genuine artificial leather jackets 50% off.
            Closely followed by, Tattoos while you wait. <<~ I swear, can be seen on I65 N. crossing over into Kentucky. I almost ran off the road laughing.
            Hey Honey, want to stop and get a Tattoo to go?

          • Seeker, you’re referring to Tattoo Charlie’s! I live in Louisville and that has always cracked me up too!

  39. Forrest really said that to Stephan It’s not hear say And yea maybe your right maybe while there fighting over what tool to use the other guy already dug it up with a shovel lol

      • He said only two fools would argue about what tool to use as the other walks out with the chest

        • That’s my point about e-mails and such. That was not what was said prior in your comment above. If this one is correctly worded… it sound like why are they fighting when the other walks out with the chest, meaning “the other” is not one of the fools still trying figure out “what tool” to use.

          Reading this, imo there are three… the ‘two foolish tools’ and the winner with no tools reguired.

          • Just so all you seekers know, me and the lads did not dig beneath that thar tree of ours. A mysterious fellow named “f” once sent us a curious poem, part of which said somethin’ like: “…while fools argue about the quest, he won’t even need a tool, as he carries out the chest.”

            http://dalneitzel.com/2012/04/05/stephan-returns-to-the-blaze/

            There is ‘what was said’ and then there is ‘what we think was said’. Sometimes the two don’t always line up quite perfectly. I am working on a significant help to address and minimize that problem that is coming soon.

            In the mean time, all us fools will keep on arguing; I just hope no one does any carrying. 🙂

        • Hey Diggin…”a tool” is actually slang for “a fool”. So it’s saying two fool will argue amongst themselves about who’s best while the “other” nontool/fool will walk away.

          IMO.

  40. Let me bounce this one off y’all:
    So, if we find the blaze, we look quickly down WHICH is supposed to end our quest. Right? Therefore the assumption would be that we already know and understand the first clue because we have followed the clues, in consecutive order, to clue#9 (with clue#9, of course, being the end of our quest. Am I way off base here? Please let me know if so.

    Or is it that clue #1 is within the blaze?

    I’m heading out again REAL soon, by the way.

    • IMO you are way off. I adhere to the school of thought that clue #1 is the first stanza. I also believe that “Look quickly down your quest to cease” means it ends prematurely.
      Good luck and be safe.

    • Just a thought,
      but it seems most people think being WWWH is the first clue. Maybe WWWH has some thing to do whith the blaze.
      When he say it’s important to nail down the first clue, It makes me think of wood.

      Good luck on your search.

    • None of us know nothing for sure joe we all guess just like u I begin at wwh because Forrest told me too And if I was one of those that got the first two clues right And so did the girl from India You gotta be driving around and hiking a area to find the other 7 Probley within 20 miles of first two clues I’m just guessing

    • Joe,
      What is the meaning of “follow” and “lead”?
      Are we over simplifying how fenn used these words?
      I can follow along in class to what is being taught and never leave my seat. I can follow instruction on how to put something together and never travel.
      I can be lead to a single location by descriptions and not having to hike, drive, hop skip or jump to anything in-between. I just simply understood the information that lead me at the spot.

      Example. you’re in NY, I tell you go to N.D. ~ TN ~ MT ~ NM ~ AR ~ to WY. Do you need to physically follow all the direction to lead you to WY? Once there is an understanding of where you end up… just go there.

      When the poem says “begin it where” what exactly is beginning? Are we over simplifying straightforward to be this is where “we” physically start or is this just the beginning of the clues?
      Why does fenn tell us, we need to know where to start IF the poem supposedly say begin it ‘here’ or why does fenn tell us we need to start at the beginning, IF the poem tells us begin it ‘here’

      Or could it be that we just don’t see it the way fenn does.
      “Somebody could find it tomorrow and it may not be found for a thousand years. I’m looking at the big picture. {{ A lot of people who are searching for the treasure don’t see it the same way I do. }} I would love if someone found it tomorrow but if nobody found it for a hundred years, that’s okay with me too.”

      “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. {{ People don’t understand that.” }}

      Just food for thought.

          • I don’t know about you, Seeker. 🙂

            I was suggesting to begin at the start/beginning. Yet, if I should begin with what I suggest, I see Joe. Too funny.

            My thoughts, first line of the poem is the beginning of where to start.

          • Golly we all gotta get past on where to start and focus where the heck we gonna end and have our sandwich for Pete’s sake And I’m still bringing a shovel last search of the year for me

          • Diggin gypsy – I second Dal’s comment. Forrest has said that snow is not a friend to searchers. Unless you want a vacation, wait till spring. The chest will be waiting for us all in 2017 when things begin to melt.

          • Hear me all I been here a long time and have traveled more than the normal person and thru the worst weather imaginable And it made the old coot excited He called me intrepid I fear no snow or grizz Mountain woman thru and thru 7th time this year awwww luck be a lady Plus if i get snowed in or attacked by a grizz I’ll call the ole coot for a chopper he owes me 5 arrowheads .

      • Hey Seek…I like this. It inspired me to think “how would one follow the title TTOTC” whether chasing girls or hunting bison it seems the obvious logical answer is “to catch”

        So where’s the catch?

        (My thought hasn’t progressed any further at the time of this writing, but I wanted to share after reading your post 🙂 good stuff there my friend, good stuff! Thx)

        • And if it’s in the Rye my vote for the necessary sandwich might be a Marbled Rye Rubin in a brown paper bag.

          For real though…I bet the catch is where it’s at. Catch the catch. Just not sure what it means.

          Yet.

      • Thanks for the help, all. I really appreciate it. I’ll admit that I’m not sure if I have the 1st clue nailed down. I have my ideas though. Also, Seeker, I think I’m in a position with my solve that I can “just go there” as you say. I just see a lot of evidence that worries me. I know that I can’t assume that WWWH is the 1st clue (full disclosure: I’m not exactly sure WWWH is – I just know I’m where I’m supposed to be. We’ll see soon enough though.

  41. Forrest’s latest seems to be indicating that folks (searchers) still do not have the first clue nailed down. He seems to be indicating that emails to him and blog comments he reads are lacking in the clue #1 department. Sure, he has made comments that seem to “say” that searchers know what the first clue is… but I do not think this is true. Searchers are saying where they’ve been and that is good enough for him to say they have “indicated” the first clue and maybe the second clue. I may be incorrect…but I do not think he has said outright that some know exactly what the first clue is.

    • Ken,
      He did say they “deciphered” the first two clues.
      So that raises a lot of questions… and not so much what the clues are but what they refer to.
      Are the clues needed to be understood has separate points or a single understanding together?

      Ex. What has an a power source and wheels?
      The answers can range from an chariot to the space shuttle. But with out those clues understanding the rest of the clues will not help.

      • Better question might be How can they “decipher” with no cipher involved? Kinda goes along with the ciphers not physically assisting to the chest.

        Does that make sense?

  42. Maybe “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze” (since blaze means beginning) is stating the first thing you need to do is figure out where to start….so it’s counterintuitive to keep looking for a physical blaze at all. You’ve gotta find the beginning of the poem….no “blaze” to locate.

    “The second rule of the golden eternity is there never was a first rule of the golden eternity. So be sure.” -Jack Kerouac

    The secrets you keep…
    The sheep they sleep…

    🙂

    • Jonsey – I like the way you think….

      Can you tell me where blaze = beginning?

      I think this type of thinking is what will be needed to “solve” this puzzle.

      Sam

  43. So what is it that the 1st clue has in common with the blaze?
    Seems pretty obvious to me Forrest was hinting that there is a commonality.
    Many think the 1st clue is within 20-30 or 40 miles from the blaze, but I would think the closeness of them is more of a thought or feeling.

    Why else would you have to get the 1st clue & know it’s importance for lack of better wording.

    • Maybe because blaze is actually the first clue?

      And “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze” isn’t a “clue” at all, it’s just a statement telling one to find the first clue first and foremost?

      It would reconcile the statement today perfectly, if so.

      • I see a child, coming into his own reality & awareness in Yellowstone & bathing in the Firehole River. A fly fishing guide. A naturalist at it’s untainted best.
        I see the hot scolding waters pouring down from hot spring riverlets into the Firehole & churning in the waters making them warm.

        I see this as the beginning & the journey that is ahead.
        Strike the iron while it’s hot & nature did just that for him.

        I see him fishing on the Firehole, the Madison, the Gibbon, the Gallatin.

        The crowds drew heavy at his favorite places in YNP & he moved further away from his childhood escape.

        The reason why the 1st clue is so important is not because it will lead you directly to the treasure as you have to figure out all the other clues.
        The reason is, the beginning is a mirror of the end which I believe is found the blaze.

        You start where it’s warm & end where it’s cold, just like life.
        Just read “My War For Me” again & you will realize how you change your thoughts & perspectives on life as you get older.

        When he looks in the mirror, what does he see?
        Not him in a physical way but a 13 year old.

        The beginning is in YNP but the end is outside.
        He would not leave out the park seeing it holds most of his dearest memories.
        But the crowds & policing pushed him to where the treasure resides.

        I see the starting point as a warm bathing spot & the ending as a cold bathing spot & that’s just how life is in the end.

        Cold……

        • Jake that’s why I’ve said, I felt like the poem was telling two story’s. And we have to look for the end of his rainbow and not the chest. The chest will be there.
          It’s what brought him to this place and what makes this place so special to him. thats what we have to keep in mind.
          Good luck in your search.

          • Thanks Animal Lover,
            I think the child within is key to the thrill & life.
            This man is not older than 14 & the sooner people can adopt this thinking, the better.

    • Jake;

      Since you believe that the first clue is wwwh, there is absolutely nothing that wwwh has in common with the blaze other than they both might be liquid.

      If, on the other hand, you would consider the possibility that the first clue is stanza #1, I can come up with several things that are in common with clue #5, which starts with “If you’ve been wise…and ends with go in peace.

      But we view the world from different perspectives. JDA

      • Hey JDA,
        I was just typing to Jake. See below. but here is a question for both of you, What “if” the whole poem that fits on one sheet of paper also has a solid solution that fits with-in the enchanted circle from start to finish? Every answer that comes from a clue is also been a part of Forrest life. Let’s say WWWH is in the enchanted circle and so is the Blaze, wouldn’t you then be starting and finishing at the same spot?
        Timothy…IMHO

        • Timothy;

          Anything is possible. None of us has the chest, so anything that we have tried, up to this moment in time, has not proved successful. If you can find a way for all of the clues to match or fit in the enchanted circle, go for it. I don’t know enough about the enchanted circle to comment with any true knowledge. JDA

          • Thanks JDA,
            Don’t get upset JD, I was on the computer and found Cynthia’s Viemo (video) and I watched it and it just got into my head, that’s all. I’m not in N.M, I’m in Co. southwest end to south from Cortez are to Durango area.I really like the Mesa Verda N.P. It’s beautiful out there and I have learned a lot about the Pueblo people and the Ute Tribes. It’s fascinating each time we are out there. I swear Forrest could come out hear and tell some of his stories and he would fit right in.
            Thanks again, be safe
            Timothy…IMHO

        • Or, everything revolves around the blaze.. or another words.. the poem is a single object, and all the components is that object.

          Is the blaze in the poem or “only” found on location… give it 30 minutes to sink in.

      • JD,
        The bottom line is the starting point has a lot in common with the blaze or ending point.
        The commonalities could be mirrored.

        JD, I don’t look at the poem as stanzas, lines, caps, punctuation’s, paragraphs & normal english teachings from our institutions now or when we were young.

        I only can relate to these institutionalized labels as markers put forth by teachings of someone(s) that may know nothing about how this poem was created.

        My way of looking at the poem is to not put any rules or barriers up to dictate what you have learned in school but what you have learned in life.

        As you were saying about your english teacher? How many years ago?

        • Jake;

          That all sounds very good, but you have to remember who wrote the poem.

          You say, “JD, I don’t look at the poem as stanzas, lines, caps, punctuation’s, paragraphs & normal english teachings from our institutions now or when we were young.” Maybe you should Jake. Forrest had teachers, and a school principle father, that instilled in him the rules of grammar, and Forrest employs them quite well. Sure, he is country spoken, but most of the time he follows the rules. I suspect that he expects us to follow most of those same rules as we decipher his poem. Just a thought. JDA

          • JDA – Yes Forrest understands grammar very well. Especially for telling us that he was not at all studious in school. Have you watched the video that Dal made of f where he talks about the way he writes? He talks about the misuse of punctuation, how he picks words that aren’t in the dictionary, and how he says things that are not true and atrocious? He does this to see if anyone is paying attention . He likes to bend the rules and see what he can do. He is a maverick when it comes to writing. He says he makes mistakes, not errors. He makes them on purpose. Have you paid attention? The mistakes he makes in his writings are very valuable if you want to solve the poem in my opinion. He didn’t include them for fun and he blends them in the stories and on the pages so well that they are not deliberate.

          • In part of a full comment ~ A lot of people who are searching for the treasure don’t see it the same way I do.

            It seems to ring the same tone with the two videos you posted Hear me all.

          • Yup Hear me all,
            Great video for all to watch, listen & understand his way with grammar, spelling & punctuation.
            I guess JD would rather hire the mechanic right out of college as opposed to the one on the job.

            I have posted many videos here for all & JD & I never get a response after from him.

            I am wondering if he ever actually has the ability to see & hear over the chisel pounding he creates.

            Maybe he chooses not to be cluttered with more good info?

          • Hi guys;

            Yes, I have seen the videos that you have posted. Forrest says repeatedly that, “In my books…” he has created words and misspelled words. I am not talking about his books, I am referring to the poem and how IT is written, not how TTOTC or TFTW is written. I see no misspelled or newly created words in the poem. I see no misuses of grammar in the poem. I see Forrest following the rules (as best I understand them) if punctuation in the poem. It is up to US whether or not we follow them, or ignore them.

            You guys may be right, or I may be right. I guess that only time will tell.

            If you want to ignore punctuation and sentence structure, that is your prerogative. I choose not to.

            Time will tell if either one of us is right.

            I wish you all the very best of luck, may you all find all that you seek, and I do hope that you each TRY to STAY SAFE! JDA

          • JD – I am one that believes the poem is of utmost importance because without we would not stand a chance of finding the treasure. With that being said it might take a 1000 years to search the Rockies to eliminate places where the treasure is not. One needs more than just the poem. The TOTTC is similar to an answer key that the teacher uses to verify that the student has selected the correct answer. The book will give you confirmation that you have selected the correct place that a clue refers to. F is a smart man and he didn’t make subtle but very deliberate mistakes in his chapters just to fill the pages with more words. This last Sunday Zap pointed out one of the mistakes in Important Literature that is very important. Too important to disregard. I realize that not everyone will want to follow this approach and they are going to enjoy some wonderful scenery but return without the treasure chest.

            About two months ago I changed the way I approached the poem and the book. I had to let go of many things in order to so. I’m still a work in progress but I’ve discovered enough to convince me that the approach I have now has the right substance. I can see part of the recipe but not all at this time. After so many times of searching a general area, I think one must ask themselves if it might be wise to at least consider other possibilities as well. There is nothing wrong with searching the same area over and over again but if it turns out to be incorrect then you have a lot of catching up to do with the searchers that have considered alternate solves.

            Forrest said at some point in the past that sooner or later someone is going to figure this out. I believe he was referring to the way he delivers his hints. I’ve read the book many times and I’m still finding more oddities each time. The oddities are so odd that they are telling us something but as friend pointed out to me they won’t help you until you have solved the clue.

            When the correct solve is made known it will cause others to say why couldn’t I see that. As f says, the answers I already know. It’s because they are in the book, right in front of us and he can see them but we have to think in order to see them.

            Back to the poem and the book for me.

          • Hear me all;

            Thanks for the long post.

            Yes, I have searched the same general area for a time now. Some of those unsuccessful searches were because of ice. One or two because of torrential waters. Many because of an error that I had made regarding my thinking that the TC was IN my creek Time, a lot of thought, and a couple of things that Forrest has said in weekly posts has corrected my thinking in that area. (Posts made by Forrest a few months back)

            I was never happy with my interpretation of the fifth stanza. I am now quite happy with a couple of new revelations that I have made. These changes have now, I feel, gotten me on the correct path.

            I MAY be wrong, and you MAY be right that it is time to move on, but I have to make one last try.

            I will return to my site one last time before the snows settle in. Not sure just when that will be, but some time within the next three weeks.

            Thanks for the advise, but I feel I must make one last search. If ALL turns out as I hope, it will be the last search for us all. JDA

    • Hey Jake,
      The only reasonable thing that comes to mind is, all of the people who believe in the circle theory would believe that where you start is also where you will finish. I do NOT believe that but I do have a few questions for you and or JDA. Has anyone heard from Kedar’s mom and how she did? Are her and her hubby returned OK? I like hearing from her and pdenver and their ideas and excursions.
      What do you think???
      Timothy…IMHO

      • Timothy;

        Kedar’s Mom posted today. She and her hubby are back all safe and sound. Empty handed, but had a good adventure. JDA

      • Timothy;

        I found her post on “Odds and Ends” at Kedar’s Mom on October 17, 2016 at 5:00 pm said:

        Hope this helps you. JDA

        • JDA,
          Yes it does, Thank you. My wife and I drove 1300 miles one way again to our spot and I wasn’t feeling the best when we left and when we arrived at our destination I was horribly sick. I was on my back for 3 days other than specifics and told my wife forget it, we are going home, now. So I We came back 1300 miles and today I’m finally up on my feet. Another trek gone by 🙁
          I think that’s it for this year. Start again Spring.
          Good to hear from you…
          Timothy…IMHO

      • Hi Timothy.

        Sorry to hear you weren’t feeling well. We had a short, but wonderful adventure. I got my orange hiking pole back, : ) it no longer gives away my search area. It was right where I left it, waiting for me. We are going back next year for some more fun and to have more time, always my problem…lol. We chased an amazing sunset for many miles on the way out. As for why we came home empty handed see my recent post under the hidey space. Take care and happy hunting.

  44. Thanks Forrest and Jenny, or my shorthand version…. thanks Fenny! 🙂
    I think I’m so much closer, NOT.

  45. IMO, searching for the blaze can never lead a searcher to the first clue.
    But, identifying the first clue can lead a searcher to the blaze.

    Oh, and I CAN’T believe that it took me almost a month to realize that “into the sunset” is a marvelous hint. Time to schedule another photo op…
    Safe searching, everyone!
    Geoff
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  46. I hope this is OK– it is meant in good humor. There was a funny coincidence today. Yesterday I had read that a biography about FF might be called “The Pied Piper of Santa Fe”. We all know the story of the Pied Piper playing his flute right?

    Then I saw this today on Jenny’s site: “Most of the searchers are very bright and Make Intelligent Comments, Either (MICE) by email or on the blogs… ”

    I thought this was funny after reading the Pied Piper comment just yesterday. Coincidences can be hilarious at times. 🙂

  47. Sounds like a bunch of people think they ‘snagged’ the looks of the ‘correct’ blaze and ran with it. As far as tools, perhaps something rather primitive would suffice.

  48. Someone was asking if I understood Grammar. While she was alive I most certainly did–she spoke in a very articulate, clear voice.

  49. Indulgence is quietly celebrating victory after successfully eluding capture for another season….but maybe, some persistent searcher will venture forth and pluck her from the coveted hidey space…before ole man winter does his thing.

  50. I’m working on an updated version of my map today, and I thought that “justify” was a delightful hint.
    Geoff
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  51. Just Do ‘It’.

    run right up to it….

    Nike
    Greek goddess of victory (identified by the Romans with their Victoria), literally “victory,” As a type of U.S. defensive surface-to-air missiles, attested from 1952.

  52. FF Weekly Words with Jenny Kile.

    Dense wax seal means no mold and TC unlikely to be underwater IMO.

    • If it ain’t broke, break it?
      Don’t like that old style format. Besides the text is hard to read & don’t like the navigation features.

      BTW, when I went on there I was redirected to update Firefox with an unknown address & I know my FF is up to date.

      Blogger beware. IMO

      • I don’t know much about prborads but it seems to be a legit company. I run noscript in Firefox so I wouldn’t get the update message anyway. I’ll check it on a different machine when I get back.

        • That redirect has only happened on 3 websites since I had FF in many years.
          weather-dot-com, happens frequently, but I know not to click the update.
          The website *E pasted here over the summer. Once & I was done with that site.
          Jenny’s new prboards site. Once & I am trying to poke around to see if it pops up again.

          I will Google noscripts for FF.
          I keep my plugins & addons turned off & ask me when I go onto a page that it’s on.

          Thanks

        • Got the noscripts Goofy.
          Thanks!
          Don’t have to see all those adds anymore either.
          Highly recommended for Firefox users.
          Just keep an eye on the lower right hand corner of your browser where the options button is & make a safe choice.

          Now, if they only had an option in there where you could not be nuked…..

    • In order to post, requires username and password. I know Jenny posted the password a few weeks ago. Any help? JDA

  53. Weekly words for December 16th, 2016 are as follows:
    *If you find the treasure please keep it in a vault for thirty days while you think. f
    I’m gonna have some fun with this WW’s…
    While this seem logical as to; don’t jump the gun or have all your ducks in the row, before making a rash decision on how to proceed…
    Is it possible that, the chest can only be discovered and ‘retrieved’ during a certain time period… and… 30 days clears that information away? Again, for fun, if fenn ‘thought of everything’ and the chest is on, lets say, public land and the rules/laws of this type of find come into effect… a 30 day grace period as deniability? Searcher, where did you find the gold? I found it by way of this poem, if you want to know where, here’s the poem?
    Or
    Again, think before you act… like we should in many situations in life.
    I want a new jacked up 4X4 turbo diesel with all the fixins’ so I can drive to the bar in style… I want a big diamond to wave in everybody face to show we’re rich and zebra striped boots and matching fur coat… Mom, Dad the furnace is broken again.
    Shhh Junior, your mother and I are talking about very important financial decisions…

    • Unless…you already have a turbo diesel and a diamond would just get in the way of grooming your horse. In that case, you’d just want to be left alone.

    • Seeker,

      Yup you hit the nail on the head. Forrest is just passing on sage advice, but I believe one who is wise enough to uncover the chest is patient enough. Key word in this WW may be “if”, so as to deflect those who believe someone is close to finding it.

      LitterateOne

    • cheers Seeker, for your post

      I’m swaying towards your ‘rules/laws’ hypothesis, given Forrest suggests “a” vault, not ‘your’ vault ..& hopefully not ‘Zaps’ vault – jus sayin ’tis all.. 🙂

      I can see a tie to ‘me wearing the bracelet means you getting revenge’ ( too late at night to research direct quotes – sorry loco) ..but both comments tend to imply a slight ‘official’ slant, to me.

      Cool map Jake, I like it. You probably have seen this one, but it’s my favourite map since August.
      http://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=931d892ac7a843d7ba29d085e0433465&center=-110.484538,44.573916&level=9

      ..& I’m almost beginning to think that you may just be slightly likeable after all Jake..

      oh wait.. I think I may have accidentally taken Sparrows meds again – so, is probably best if we just disregard that last remark.
      🙂

      • See what meds do to you.
        The reason I like the map I posted is it shows you private property & who owns it to keep searchers out of trouble.

        Then again, there’s always those that are going to be absolutely sure it’s on private property no matter what.

    • Sounds good Seeker. Which type of land (or state) has a 30 day rule for unclaimed property? Unless, the statement is not referring to the physical chest of gold…

          • Friend, I believe that it speaks to the ownership issue. Public, Indian, Private, Parks, etc. That would be useful to anyone and everyone searching. It is up to the reader to pass, hold or run with this comment by ff.

    • At least one searcher is prolly going to claim that this comment proves that He/she is right on target…you know, cuz’ Forrest sends out secret comments to HIM/her…
      That crucial “plan” comes into play with statements such as this… makes one think doesn’t it?

      • FYI… jacked diesel 4x… don’t get a dually if its ever expected to see mud…might be ok at the bar if its a paved parking lot.

        short bed, ’74 dodge 4x, ideal for mud and searching remote areas.won’t get looked at at the bar.

        Diamonds.. right on… get in the way with horses.
        As far as FF comment. Sounds like common sense to me. But picking the ‘vault’ apart I think is trivial. Any vault would work… mother earth…bury….gun vault..if its bolted to concrete…. I think the best idea is not going public(keeping ones mouth shut). casually notify FF with a gracious thank you and let him work out the rest of notifying(preferably without identity) . IMO

    • Yes JDA,
      I am thrilled he mentions the Yellowstone area & obviously it is a very special area to him, even today.

        • As all points do, they get dull after awhile of using it over & over & over again. Sometimes it’s just better to switch points.
          Thanks ken & same to you…

  54. “Many searchers told me the general area in which they are looking. I didn’t read the long emails, but in most of the short ones I looked for key words that would get my attention. Several did this year and I hope my lack of an email response was not taken as a clue.”

    If f was more forthcoming in what has happened this year, my guess (from his statement above) is that several search parties probably mentioned and correctly identified at least the first two clues this year. Of most interest in knowing would be if anyone has definitively figured out the third and forth clues and are making progress on any of the others clues. But I don’t think f is going to reveal much more or give confirmation of any real or significant progress some may be making at this point of the game.

    For those who like to think f drops hints and clues in everything he writes and speaks, today’s statement leaves no shortage of possibilities.

      • I don’t know what JCM gifts are, but apparently I’m getting coal. I don’t e-mail fenn and many of my postings would not be consider short. So I doubt he would read them.

        On a more serious note; “I looked for key words that would get my attention.” Is fenn referring to the general area or the poem clues in that area?
        Another words… are searcher following the general path or have deciphered more clues [ right location, but lack the clue]?

        • It is interesting that Fenn did not comment whether searchers had progressed further than the “possible four clue” statement from last year…What if…some/one has, but it would be too much of a tell for him to say so. What if a confident searcher has given him reason to make that comment last year.. and they know it.
          [right location, but lack the clue]? That is a great question…Forrest has made many statements about first 2 clues and searchers…but it is still a question in my mind whether any searchers really “know” that they had the first two clues. Again, his after statements leave a lot to interpretation. That brings me back to “…you won’t know if you have the first clue until you find the treasure”) Around and around we go…where it stops nobody knows….

          • Also…what if his first four comment was just a comment that he could twist around a bit… and make because folks were in an area that was further along in the sequence?

        • “Many searchers told me the general area in which they are looking. I didn’t read the long emails, but in most of the short ones I looked for key words that would get my attention. Several did this year and I hope my lack of an email response was not taken as a clue.”

          What caught my attention was ” ….I looked for key words that would get my attention. Several did this year….” Mr Fenn seems to taking about the “key words” not searchers, and then after seeing those key words Forrest did not respond back to that email. Now would those “several key words” = (places or objects clues identify) be more then the three or maybe four he was not sure about? I believe yes, but not quite all.

          So for those who wrote Forrest this year with a possible solve and never received a reply back I think you should look at your solve and think about it more and possibly figure out what you missed. Most likely the couple near the chest. Of course this my opinion, but I’m sure others see this.

          “Merry Christmas” to all, and to that special one who has gotten a little further. Bur

          • I’m thinking the reason why he didn’t get into more detail as far as searchers advancing this year is the safety factor.

            Just imagine if he said that several searchers have solved most of the clues & some were within 50′ of the treasure.

            I guarantee you that there would be some searchers that wouldn’t care about the weather & would risk there life in any weather & conditions.

            I expect him to elaborate more in the spring when it’s safer to go searching.

          • Safety first…that is a great point. I think that is a strong contender. However…some are going to take risks regardless. Missoula Man is a shining example.

      • Hi Loco – I don’t really look into statements like these from f for hints or clues with hopes that they will somehow lead me to the TC. Does that mean that he doesn’t? I don’t know, I just know that there is enough in the poem and book to lead a person to the TC, so I find no use in creating more ideas and possibilities from only potentials when I can’t put together those that are definite.

        I do find the comment on looking for key words that get his attention insightful though. Is it people talking about specific places they have been to or places / things that people associate to be the solutions to the clues that are these key words? What else might people be telling f in short emails that would grab his attention and tip him off to them being in the right location and/or getting clues correct?

        Beyond this latest statement, I have been able to get access to the raw recording of some interviewers visiting and talking to f that is not publicly available. Most of what he says in it is similar or slightly different variations of things we have him publicly saying or writing. I hope to get access to a second interview they had with f that could potentially identify what the first clue in the poem is per f.

        Time to wrap a few more presents and then go to bed. I would hate for Santa to skip my house tonight because I stayed up too late.

        • Merry Christmas to you and yours’, JCM. Here’s wishing you good health and good fortune in the New Year ahead>

          *Now that would definitely be a bit of good luck to obtain such a recording! Do me a favor? I’m betting, if it reveals what f says the first clue is, that it is not what “you” think it is. No need to reveal it, just make a post stating, “loco you were right” or “loco you were wrong”…..I’ll get what you’re layin’ down!!!! 🙂

          Merry Christmas & Good Luck to All!!!!! ……… loco

  55. Merry Christmas to all;

    I know that this is going to sound weird, but I read Forrest’s Post again just before going to sleep last night, and turned it over to my subconcious. Here is what “IT” came up with.

    Forrest mentions an orange boxcar in the far distance, adjacent to a place that he used to shower in. He also mentions 40 to 50,000 in his post.

    What if the Orange boxcar is code for an orange box canyon off in the far distance, and that if one views this orange box canyon from Google Earth, a line drawn from a particular viewing point to the cliffs will pass over a place that Forrest could have used to shower. The 40 – 50,000 are Google Earth zoom factor numbers. 50K = about 5 miles, and 40 = close zoom-in.

    I told you it was weird. Merry Christmas, and TRY to STAY SAFE. JDA

    • Weirder than weird,
      I think it was a railcar although they are probably the same.

      Yes the box canyon I was in is red & orange on the creek bed mostly & there are showers there if you consider the waterfalls.
      You will not be able to see this with GE though.

      • Yes,
        There were coin slots in the rock face, but I had no change with me to take a shower.

    • JDA-
      A person could go the “code words” route I suppose but what about the “actual, based on reality” route first. Here’s a pic of the orange rail car next to where Forrest showered when he had a spare fifty cents, It’s right off Canyon Street in West Yellowstone down at what is now the Historical Center but when Forrest was a kid it was the train station…showers were available for tourists. This is about a half mile from where the Simpson Cabin Camp and Fennhaven were located.

      https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6579317,-111.0997699,3a,26.4y,289.04h,86.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2Ph4eHWYujqJJ8j6n_sWtw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

      And now the bad news-
      That orange rail car has been under scrutiny since West Yellowstone first popped into early searcher’s minds as a potential location. Folks have been under it, over it…If I recall correctly, even inside it…Most of the rest of that area has also been probed at the dust mite level by hundreds, if not thousands of folks looking for Indulgence.
      I believe it was Stephanie who even lifted up storm drain grates in the area checking for “you know what”.

      Which reminds me…if I ever lose anything I’m calling Stephanie to help me look for it…That woman is “thorough”.

      • Thanks for the post Dal;

        Like I said, don’t blame me, blame my subconcious. That is just what I woke up “knowing” at a bit past midnight. WEIRD! JDA

        • I’m going to start blaming my subconscious to.
          It’s an easy way out even though I typed it & it came from me.

      • LOL,
        Thanks for the laugh dal,
        I drove by that railcar a bunch of times & never gave it any thought.

        It’s a great piece of history & searchers should not go there searching for the chest but for the treasure & no you can’t take a shower in the Yellowstone Historic Center unless you have a time machine.

    • This is a great link! Right beside me sits what looks to be a Wurdemann’s Heliotrope (1866), or something quite close to it. Mine doesn’t have the mirrors or guide. By the looks of it, it appears to be quite old. We just say, “It’s used for surveying.” 🙂

  56. pdenver,

    Must be quite a conversation piece! Am inclined to think this is something that is; or could possibly have a connection to the Chase?

    Insofar as a “Vault” (as commented about on Jenny’s Site) is concerned, I have to wonder if what might be typically considered one is actually something other than that. A portal of some sort:

    http://wundercovers.com/

    SL

    • SL, Is the connection to the Chase you suggest, perhaps “triangulation?” I see that possibility and hope to know for certain in the coming months.

      • SL, I am suggesting a little “blaze/tarry/gaze” triangulation, which seems like it might actually qualify for “in the wood” 3-times. What do you think? I still can not get past the “brave” part. Brave is the least of my concerns. Honor, integrity, honesty, respect, etc. kind of trump that admirable quality.

    • Hello SL. The piece remains quiet. It’s hardly talked about. I concur with both of your thoughts, my friend.

    • SL, Thanks, I can respect that and you seem to be in good company with pdenver! How does one deal with the primary conundrum? Specifically, ” I still can not get past the “brave” part. Brave is the least of my concerns. Honor, integrity, honesty, respect, etc. kind of trump that admirable quality.” What was the Thrillsmith thinking when creating that conundrum?

      • The Thrillsmith definitely created quiet the conundrum! I honestly never new words could be used in so many ways before I really got involved in the Chase. I’ve never had more fun figuring out all the different meanings!
        I agree that “honor, integrity, respect, etc trump being brave” any day. As far as honesty the Thrillsmith tells the truth but not the whole truth and then only 85% of the time, haha 😉

    • SL,
      That was a very informative link. I liked that the students were referred to as budding architects. I didn’t know about “nets” before, it’s interesting that they make a “map” of the building. I think this theory could be helpful to a logical thinking searcher, possibly.
      What the Architect build with the poem has many, many details and being able to look at the structure from as many different perspectives as possible is very helpful to the students (if the students can get to a point where they can decipher the blueprints, lol).

    • SL, Wow, you went over my humble little head with that one. But thanks for being kind enough to share it. Was that in response to my conundrum over the being “brave” question? If so, you might have to try again??? Sorry to miss that connection…

      • Elemenopee, (sorry! been wanting to do that for a while now, hehe 🙂
        Your response above made me laugh! Somehow I don’t think it was in response to your “brave” question, but you may never know unless SL is kind enough to tell you.

        • WY,
          El em en o pee? Good one. Never thought of it that way.
          Now (IMHO), if poor Forrest were to say that on a blog, someone (?) would comment, “2 letters, 2 letters, en = and, 1 letter…He must be telling us to take Highway 22 to County Road 1 and watch for something to pee ! Follow that stream down (because you certainly would NOT want to “paddle up stream”) and see where it comes somewhere near a big pile of “home of Brown” in that pasture, so that you can “put in” and begin to look for a blaze!” (Oh well, I am in one of those moods and thought it was funny…sorry)
          But I digress. To echo the compliment from SL, you got me thinking with your constructive share re: “Hear me or here me? Hear as in on the phone or here as in person? “Listen good, worth the cold, brave”as in ask permission and listen to the answer?” interesting observation.
          I am trusting that SL will return with a comment that is more elementary for elemenopee.

          Thanks!

          • Omg! You had me rolling, lmnop! You are so right!, if Forrest posted something like that everyone would see all kinds of clues in it, weather he meant there to be or whether he didn’t .
            Thank you for the compliment! The “worth the cold,brave” part is just me thinking out loud from my perspective.
            I’m a very shy reserved person until I get to know someone and I HATE the phone. I would have to be very brave to pick up the phone ( if that is what the poem led me to do) and the recipient of that call might very well be cold (at least at first). Like I said just thinking out loud. I don’t know that this is something that’s been discussed on the blog before.
            Just as an aside, I believe the poem to be multilayered and to contain different instructions for different layers so I’m leaning towards the thought that there is more than one meaning for these lines.

        • Think of how the #32 could figure into….”Brave and in the wood.”

          Degrees?
          A ‘Brotherhood?’

          SL

          • SL, If we were on a video chat right now, you would see a big, dumb, mouth wide-open, look on my face…

            Did you intend to do that to me???

            (my wife would say that it comes natural)

          • LMN,

            I am confused. How should I interpret your comment: “Did you intend to do that to me???”

            SL

          • LMN,

            I agree! It is “different.”

            Am attempting to identify a type of wood, that may, or may not have something to do with the poem and its inference to wood.

            Got a long way to go, LOL!!

            SL

          • SL,

            I thought we were talking about my conundrum over the application of “brave” in a solution.

            No wonder your apples did not resemble my oranges…we were talking apples and oranges.

            Regarding “in the wood,” my solution had 2 or 3 applications that ALL work. Two of them certainly apply (at the same time) and the 3rd “may” triangulate to the chest location.

            So, your #32, degrees and brotherhood were hints about the “wood?” Feel free to elaborate, unless it gives out too much info.

          • Am attempting to follow a “train” of thought myself regarding “in the wood”but have so many thoughts buzzing around inside my head I can barely hear myself think let alone listen good 🙂
            I too have several different applications that could all work. Im thinking of the story of Forrests phone fight with the editor the paper about cutting down the forest. I like that application of “in the wood”at the moment.

  57. WY,

    When you think about it, who isn’t…a student?
    Deciphering the blueprints will take the Patience of listening, hearing, looking and thinking. ( A bit of ‘feeling’ couldn’t hurt either). I believe it will happen!

    BTW… Have enjoyed your comments!

    SL

    SL

    • Thank you SL!
      I do need to comment more. My natural tendency is to sit back and take in what’s going on around me without a lot of comment. But that is not fair to my fellow searchers-they deserve my input of throwing ideas into the pot for a bit of extra seasoning.
      With that and your comment above about listening and hearing my thoughts are pulled to the last stanza in the poem.
      So has several different meanings- soooo it could mean sow as in sprinkle seeds, or (my thoughts were just drawn to this from reading f’s scrapbook about his anniversary to Peggy) sew as in “ok let’s sew this thing up”.
      Hear me or here me? Hear as in on the phone or here as in person?
      “Listen good, worth the cold, brave”as in ask permission and listen to the answer?
      Thoughts anyone?

      • WY Girl – since you ask, here are a few thoughts. In SB #120, Forrest states that he purchased a sewing machine for Peggy four years (he thinks) before they got married. Then he makes a comment about a first marriage. Hmmm. Look at the photos of Peggy in her wedding dress(s). There appear to be 2 different dresses. The neckline is a giveaway. Look at the wedding bouquet(s). There appear to be 2 different bouquets, but that could be the angle of the photo. Look at Peggy’s hair style in the pictures. Definitely different. In fact, in the final picture in the SB, she is sporting a curl on her forehead that looks very similar to the curl on the portrait on page #104 in TTOTC. Now look at page #72 in TTOTC; Peggy modeling her swimsuit. Absolutely screams photoshopped to me. Her head is just plopped on to a female figure in a very modest swimsuit. Elsewhere, Peggy sports cute little 2 piece suits. And looks smashing BTW. So, (sew), were there 2 weddings?
        Dragonfly and/or damselfly are colloquially known as “sewing needles”. Dragonfly is also known as a “snake doctor”. Snake school > snake doctor > snake charmer? And finally, check out the final photo where Peggy and Forrest are leaving the church in SB #120 and compare it to the book. It is definitely NOT the same photo as on page #72 of TTOTC. Look at shadows…and who are those ghostly shadows behind Peggy? Looks like a familiar painting to me. When you figure all this out, let me know. I’m beyond curious.

        • It’s actually quite simple. The first time he said “I do”. The second time he said “I did”.

        • Holy cow Sandy B! You just opened up about 50 more rabbit holes to choose from. As if I didn’t have enough strings to tangle myself up in already! Ah well PDenver did warm me…………

          It’s funny I notice a lot of detail in written word ( sometimes anyway) but I’ve missed a lot of stuff in the pictures. I did wonder about that bathing suit though………

          • Voice of Robert Stack:

            “A “V” on her forehead, two wedding dresses, and a photo-shopped swimsuit photograph. A man named Forrest. One wedding or two? Tonight on Unsolved Mysteries….”

          • the mystery has finally been solved!

            the V is actually a frown, due to Forrest constantly leaving the toilet seat up

            ..I mean, what else could it be?
            🙂

          • You got hobbit! And don’t you forget it! Leaving the toilet seat up will cause you untold trouble……..you might get away with it until your girl goes “in there” (there Dal, I kept it chase related) in the middle of the night and falls in the toilet cause she didn’t see the seat was up in the dark……..you know not the wrath of a women until that happens!

          • oh, I know exactly what ‘the wrath of a woman’ feels like WY Girl ..as I have unwittingly left the cap off the toothpaste on more occasions than I’ll freely admit on this public forum.

            (it’s not a pretty site ..apparently)
            🙂

      • Listen good for that locomotive but don’t tarry long even if you are brave and not meek.

  58. Hello – I’m a new searcher and only discovered the chase last fall. I studied the poem for a day and was immediately hooked. Maybe I watched too much Indiana Jones as a kid; however, an outdoor adventure combined with a master problem begging to be solved…I’m in. But I found myself skimming this blog frequently and feeling bad I was not contributing so I’ll try and do better.

    http://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-with-forrest-quibbling-or-prevaricating/

    Perhaps this topic has been beat to death, but does anyone else see his response to provide a definitive answer?

    So look up the definition for methods or modes of transportation. Is “walking” a method or a mode of transportation? Hint: what if he took a horse and the horse walked. Many have said that climbing or swimming would apply but my review of the definition is that Fenn personally walking, swimming or climbing all fall under a personal transport method.

    Then think about what type of question would solicit a response where candidness and correctness would be considered mutually exclusive. The answer is a bad question.

    Then look at what he said about positive = prevaricating (misleading) and negative = quibbling (make light of trivial matter).

    IF he only used personal transport… No = candid (straight forward) yet not correct (bad question) and would be prevaricating. Yes= neither candid or correct.

    IF he did use another method (e.g. animal transport or motorized transport)… his response is consistent and accurate. Yes would = prevaricating (to those that know walking is not a method) and would be candid (knowing what the question meant) but not correct (accurate). No would = quibbling (“you know what we meant”) and be correct but not candid.

    I seem to derive an answer that perhaps Fenn did not intend to give.

    Happy to get involved in the discussion!

  59. Clee, How does the use of a cart, wagon, hand-truck, wheel barrow, boat, etc. to assist him work with your analysis? In the end, I am not sure why all of this would get you any closer to the trove. Good luck, be safe, have fun.

    • Thanks LMN,

      If we are talking about use of a cart, wagon, hand-truck, wheelbarrow it means nothing. If we are talking Horse or ATV it can mean quite a bit if you are a searcher that has limited their search radius to an improved road based on Fenns other comments.

      Paraphrase:
      1. Made two trips from the car to the hide in one afternoon.
      2.Walked less than a few miles
      3. He took a car
      4. Don’t go where an 80 year old man can’t go

      Looking through this blog it seems many searchers are placing a significant limitation on their search area because of these three statements. Obviously if you have not solved the poem it will not mean much.

      My only intent is to identify the possibility that if for example an ATV was taken 80% of the way, that it is possible for all the statements above to be true while putting the hiding spot as much as 5 maybe 10 miles away from an improved road.

        • But by that logic I could walk to the treasure now from my house. But reason would dictate I need to at least start with a car. Therefore by extension of that reasoning there is nothing in this statement excluding a second method of transport to take me a few miles from my car to a location where I then would need to walk.

          • If he did use another form of transportation, I think he would have only needed to take 1 trip & not 2.

            Horse, donkey, 4-wheeler, bike, whatever….

          • Consider this thought. If you had a 42 pound chest you needed to get to the hide spot. You need an ATV to take you in 5 miles where you then would need to walk off trail for half a mile to the spot. You know you cannot haul the full 42 pound chest in one trip from your ATV. Do you a) take the full chest in on your ATV and leave half the treasure on the ATV, on the trafficked trail while you walk it in 1/2 at a time or do you b) make two trips. I think I would have done b.

          • Clee,
            There many places in the Rocky’s where motorized vehicles are prohibited.
            4-wheelers, ATV’s, Dirt/trail bikes etc…
            I’ve seen many signs stating this while hiking through many areas.

            I would bet a ton that the area where the treasure is hidden that all motorized vehicles are prohibited.

            Pack animals are a different story. You can still walk with them unlike motorized vehicles.
            Think!

          • Clee,
            The spot where the chest is hidden is also the same place where he was going to rest his bones for eternity.

            Let’s say a hunter or hiker discovers an ATV & his car has been sitting there a while as well.

            How does your theory work out now?
            OK, the treasure & his body is about a mile radius from the ATV.
            His sedan is confirmed as his.

          • Jake- couple of great points. My solve does not actually involve an ATV, I was simply trying not to limit the conversation. But great point on the implications of leaving behind anything which would act like a bread crumb. An animal would wander away on their own but an abandoned vehicle on the other hand is a problem regardless of whether we buy into the second method of transportation theory. If anything animal transport could help solve this problem. Rent a horse, travel a large distance, and let the horse go on it’s way where it will eventually be found nowhere near his spot.

      • Clee ~ “Looking through this blog it seems many searchers are placing a significant limitation on their search area because of these three statements.

        Maybe this comment would help clarify what is facing us, the searcher, and not so much what fenn did.
        “If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.” [ fundamental Guidelines ].

        Why would we need transportation when fenn is giving a warning to us about two trips. Any means of transportation from our vehicles [ car ] would eliminate the need for two trips, right?
        Or is there another reason why two trips are needed in the retrieving of the chest [ other than weighing 42 lbs.]

        • Seeker, yes that is the piece of the logic I struggle with and cannot reconcile. My analysis suggests he took another “method of transportation”, but why he would have taken two trips is a mystery. I have a couple thoughts but it is all guess work.

          • Clee,

            If I may but in please? To me ff letting us know two trips from his car in one afternoon is one of the best out side of the poem pieces of intel we could hope for. It means no over night camping or strenuous back backing.

            See if you can find where he talks about how as he walked back to his car there was no one around and in a loud voice he said….did I really do this… (paraphrasing). Keep it simple, he used a sedan, parked in a parking lot and hiked for a few miles with the valuables, stashed them and came back for the chest and it was all done in one afternoon. IMO! Most recently he said if you have someone with you have them wait in the car, meaning to me it won’t take long…..!

            Now, was the car a rental? He won’t answer that in a direct yes or no answer….watch the book store interview in Taos.

            If you think you have a solve that works but the distance from a parking lot is so far that more than just hiking on foot is needed do check it out, only way to find out! I’m glad he has told us two trips from his car and that there was no one around on his return.

            Didn’t the bulk of the places he went to as a kid involve hiking? Sure once in a while he used a bicycle and rented horses and there are pics of boats and/or rafts but not needed to access his special place, IMO!

          • Thanks Cholly, good stuff. I would only say be careful of perhaps an intentional separation in his use of the word “trip” from his comments in reference to walking. Absolutely you should take his advice and if you cannot make two trips in an afternoon don’t do it; whether you subscribe to the walking only group or not.

            You are correct though. Doesn’t really matter either way if you don’t know where you are going. Good luck!

  60. Per the recent “roundup” over at MW, there is an allusion to a snowmobile as transport. Not that I think so necessarily, but some folks might and it was a curiosity. There is the question of the abandoned vehicle…”some of those vehicles haven’t moved in days” or something to that effect in the same MW roundup. The Forest Service, BLM and National Parks do allow snowmobiles in places they don’t allow other motorized and non-motorized vehicles in the summer. And I keep wondering about the more obvious parking roadside parking area…”cars were whizzing every which way, weren’t they?”…”besides, I could cross that dumb street anytime I wanted to”…hmmmm and IMO.

  61. *If you tell your solve to a friend, don’t be surprised if she shops at Gucci while you fill your cart at Walmart. f { Jan.12th 2017 MW’s }

    Wait a month… leave search partner in the car… if not you, then who?… Seems there is a lot of suggestion leaning to something.

    • Seeker,
      What about the life timers that can’t search?

      All these posts seem to lead to: Don’t trust anyone with your solve & I will go further & suggest someone has it figured out & he knows it & doesn’t want that person to give it away to someone else.

      • If you believe this Jake, why do you come down so hard on those of us that feel that we have solved it? You can not have it both ways. JDA

        • Still holding a grudge & you didn’t put your gun away as you said.
          Who’s us anyway?

          Us that think they have it figured or the one who really does?
          All 8 who stated they are 100% sure had some some serious flaws in there solves.

          • No grudge Jake. I am not taking a pot shot at you, I just asked a question – how can you have it both ways?

            Us is the eight that you mentioned.

            It is your opinion that each of the eight has a serious flaw. That may or not be the case. Only Forrest, not you, knows for sure. Just my opinion.

            If my solve has a flaw that you are aware of, what is that flaw Jake? I would be curios to know what you think it is.

            I have told you what I think are the flaws in your solve – what are mine?

            JDA

          • I will point out 1 major flaw in your solve as I have done multiple times & you will have to go back in your emails to figure the rest.

            You use “the wood” as your word that is key.
            That’s 2 words. Strike out!
            As far as I know the statement he made was “a word”.

            Some have speculated he meant that he meant multiple words but that’s not what I heard & read.

            If we do not know the difference between 1 & 2 then we do not belong here.

          • Well Jake;

            If that is my only flaw, I am not worried about your evaluation of my solve. I am so sure that you are wrong, that I would be willing to double our bet, if that is all you are basing your evaluation on. JDA

          • JDA,
            Major flaw #2.
            F: “I mean there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues.”

            He says “blaze” is one of the clues.

            You use all of stanza 4 as a clue. One word from his mouth or what you have concocted.

            And don’t forget, this is not my opinion.
            It is what F said. So if you have a problem what I am quoting from him, then maybe you should take it up with that person or look in the mirror & put your hearing aids in.

          • Jake;

            “do not belong here” Are you saying that I do not belong on the blog? Or the chase? I am sure that Dal and Goofy head up that department, not you. You could get yourself placed in moderation again, or nuked for that kind of comment. I would be careful were I you, but thankfully I am not. JDA

          • Jake;

            What you say is true. Forrest said that the blaze is one of the clues. He did NOT say that only that one line in stanza #4 was the clue. Stanza #4 is one complete sentence. You choose to parse the stanza into stand-alone elements, and that is your choice – not mine. Why take only one segment out of a sentence and say that that, and that alone is the clue? Not logical Jake. Good try, but your argument does not hold water. My offer still stands – Double or nothing. JDA

          • JDA, You’re really getting foolish now.
            If you want to ignore what he has said then go right ahead & keep being ignorant.

            Yea, sure let’s make the bet 2K now.
            Easy money from where I’m sitting.

          • Jake;

            You are the one that is not paying attention or listening. You are the one with myopic vision. I will enjoy the 2K.

            JDA

          • What JDA,
            I can’t see you or hear you & I don’t have enough money to pay attention.
            But I will when your time is up empty handed.
            Tic, tic, tic…..

          • Jake;

            We can taunt each other all you want. Bottom line, you agreed to the bet. If you can not afford to lose, you better save face now and ask to withdraw the bet.

            You ARE going to lose Jake, and you will have egg all over your face. JDA

          • You are so sure you know exactly where the treasure is JDA, you are willing to put 2K on the line.

            The bet is on & there will be no egg on my face.

            I wonder how many others here & there would take this bet?

            LATWTTB 🙂

          • Jake;

            I am not even going to respond to you ridiculous post, because to do so would be to humiliate you, and I am am not in the chase to humiliate people. I am in the chase for “The Thrill of the Chase”. I am in the chase for the pleasure of solving a riddle that has gone unsolved for over six years. I am in the chase to prove that I am capable of solving it. And, I am in the chase for what good finding the treasure can bring to me, my family, and people who have been less fortunate than I have been in my life.

            Proving you wrong will be icing on the cake, but honestly, compared to all that I will gain by being correct, will make proving you wrong will be of little or no consequence.

            Have a good life Jake JDA

          • JDA: “I am not even going to respond to you ridiculous post”
            If you do not know the difference between a post from a comment then maybe you should rethink things.

            How can anyone expect to find the treasure & figure the clues when you don’t know the basics? 1 from 2. Blaze from whole stanza. Post from comment???

            I’m just going to watch the Pats score 40+ points on this great defense.

      • The wording below is in SF traveler;
        [ while I don’t full trust quote unless in know they are directly from fenn, this one always had me thinking…]

        He wanted “to get kids off the couch and out of the game room and into the sunshine.” It’s not only families out hunting for the treasure; strangers are coming together, both online and in person, to discuss the clues. “People are being drawn together and I didn’t anticipate that to the degree it’s happening.”

        It come to this… is fenn overly surprised how much sharing of solves there are?

        • Yes Seeker,
          I would have to say he did not expect this degree of sharing.

          I will keep going further on down the road & there was another statement about someone that finds the chest should take 2 trips as well.

          All these pieces to the puzzle shows me he is switching gears now & taking a new path. It seems obvious to me know that he wants one person to find it & makes sense in a legal way.

          Shhh, be quite about it.

          Why now?

        • good question Jake, but I’m so far behind the eight-ball, that the whole ‘Brett in Vegas’ thing went sailing right over my fury head, right from the get-go.

          ..it does suggest that he’s switched up a gear or two, for some reason – but ‘why now’ is def the 64k dollar question.

      • Some”one” may be real close Jake…but….the prize is still waiting right where Fenn put it. It is not over until there is a winner. And yes…make sure you are surrounded by only folks you can trust.

  62. I avoid Walmart at all cost…so that leaves me out of that equation.
    Forrest has been a busy man lately…he is giving daily homework and seems to be mixing things up pretty good.

  63. ” If you don’t know where it is, go back to the first clue.”
    This statement from Fenn seems to say more than just the words he used here. In one way I read this, it appears that he is saying that…if you do not know where the treasure( it) is, after progressing further into the clues… go back to the beginning and figure out what the first clue is. Or…the searcher moved through his/her clues and got off the path and needs to reassess that chosen path by starting again. Or…more simply…as has been said…go back to the “word”… it…and start again. For those that believe that the first clue is in the first stanza…that leaves out the “word” it…as a stand alone word… in the first clue. Is there more to this ? Wish I knew…

    • Ken,
      Even if “it” is the first clue or part of… we need to know “it” before we get to that line, right?
      This bring the “it” to be in stanza one.
      So, begin [or start] it [or reference in stanza one] where warm waters halt.

      Personally I think, it, relates to where.
      “begin it where” ~In this thought the where is the it, as somewhere in time past.
      The thought process come from stanza one relating to As I ave ‘gone’ [past] tense in there[still past tense]… I can keep my secret ‘where’ [ still past tense to ‘gone’]… so imo “begin it where” is past tense as well.
      IF this is so… hint of riches should be past tense in meaning also. Is the “hint”, being the poem is of the past and not the present day for understanding, and the poem should be read as old and new, only flipped or mirrored to rhyme.
      At least until we get to… stanza four which brings the searcher, now or future, into the equation.

      *If you don’t know where it is, go back to the first clue.* ~ seems to say, nail down the understanding of the first clue, otherwise you have no chance to locate the chest.
      Of course this is just a theory.

      Still itches me that some have indicated, deciphered, been at the ‘first’ two clues BUT they didn’t seem to know. What is it they didn’t understand about the first clue???

      • I am one who believes the first stanza is the first clue. This stanza gives the general search locale.
        With this in mind…the second stanza starts the Quest for the treasure by giving step by step directions (stomping if you want) to the different landmarks. So…that does…to me ….say that his statement is saying that “it” is relative to not only nailing down the first clue…but knowing the successive clues from there on until the end. That could infer…in that case, that it refers to the treasure in his statement….

        • IT; used to refer to a thing previously mentioned or easily identified.
          So, yes. It can refer to the treasure. or can also refer to the “hint”

          This is poetry… alternative meanings and usages are needed. Lets take this one step further… we have… treasures, chest and trove, do they all refer to one thing? Maybe the better way of asking, do they all refer to the same exact thing?

          The cat in the hat, simple right?
          cat in the hat… yet IN does always mean; enclosed or movement to. It can also mean; period of time.
          In the case of the cat in the hat, “in” means A cat wearing A hat.
          But if we look at “in the wood” the meaning might be at period of time and relate to “gone alone in there” which relates to where in the same tense, which bring us right back to “begin it where” might be of past tense, and nothing to do with the treasures or chest or trove.

          My point is simple, yet not so simple… are we thinking the words used are only to be understood in a single line or even a section of the poem, or is it more likely the words have meaning throughout the poem.

          The method you explained “Quest for the treasure by giving step by step directions (stomping if you want) to the different landmarks.” tends to limits sections of the poem to only related to nearby sections of the poem only.

          This never made sense to me as only attempting to use or understanding small parts of the poem, and not the poem as a whole.

          • Seeker…I totally get what you are saying about (tense) past present future and how this may tie more than one stanza to another in different ways. I have taken those aspects of the deciphering into account and have come up with way too many interps to nail down a particular starting point. By simplifying things(for my jumbled brain) I have taken each tense and used it exactly as it is for each step(one foot in front of the other). So…the second third and fourth stanzas should have the searcher contemplating the fifth and sixth stanzas and hitting the trail…back to the waiting search partner in the car/sedan/truck/moped/donkey/ATV
            or tandem bicycle…My plan has me making only one trip…but I can see where making two, might make more sense.
            The scenarios are endless.. and that “confidence” level keeps me back tracking to get things right or is it write?

          • Hi Seeker, hope you are having a happy new year! I find your reasoning to be thought provoking quite often, but I usually I am of a different opinion. This particular topic of discussion is one I have long questioned myself. I feel the it is very important to finding the solution to the poem. I am not sure if I followed your logic completely, but I will give it a crack. “Have gone alone in there” is in the past tense and cannot easily be seen as a direction to the reader. “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,” seems to be a sort of precondition to being granted title to the gold. This may be why so many folks find some words to be less relevant to the solution. I feel that this is what inspired Forrest to say what he did about discounting any of the words in the poem. That being said what do you make of the future tense such as, “there’ll be no paddle up your creek” or ” Your effort will be worth the cold”?

    • ken,
      Do you think he may be suggesting that where the treasure is resting is where the last clue is & has very common features as the 1st clue?

      • Quick and simple…to your first ,yes…to your second, I don’t think features has anything to do with it.

  64. “Oh man, what a great fight! These guys are really going at it! Geez!”

    (Female voice from the other room): “You watching Boxing Honey?”

    “No, I’m I’m just reading Dal’s blog dear”.

  65. imagine the brochure:

    “Welcome all, to Home of Dal ..where boxing is the less violent sport
    – bring ya family along for a fun day out.” 🙂

    (go Cassius! too btw)
    🙂

    • Thanks PD.

      No one ever got rich by overestimating the human imagination. f

      Is Forrest saying that imagination alone will not enable you to find the TC…It must be a balance of knowledge and logic, along with imagination? That is how I read it anyway. JDA

      • I think he is saying some are over imagining seeing things that arent really there To make it work for there solve

        • Probably guilty of that. I e-mailed him today.

          Although, I am not entirely sure that’s what this statement means. If the imagination was overestimated, I would propose that the imaginers have less imagination than expected and don’t see the things that are.

    • In what manner am I supposed to communicate, if that is part of what “keep” is referring to?

  66. I’ve read to page 41, and the only hint I’ve found so far
    , imo, is what he states about the mountains and the river bottoms.

  67. This page is now closed to new comments. To continue the discussion
    about what Forrest has said on her blog please go to the most
    current “Jenny Kile’s Questions” page.

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