Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…


Please click on the comment balloon below to contribute to the discussion of  Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Hunt. Please note that many topics have their own pages. Please scroll through the blog to see all the discussion pages. There are also stories, scrapbooks, searcher’s reports general information, tips from Forrest, a rumors blog and even email responses from Forrest. So please look around and if you want to make a comment please use the most appropriate page.




294 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…

  1. I am copying this comment from Jeff Burch to here so it will be more noticeable. Jeff was an active searcher, blogger and one of the first folks to head out and search for Randy when he went missing. Last winter Jeff suffered a stroke which has seriously debilitated him. He is still recovering.
    Many of us met Jeff and his dog Titan at Forrest’s Leon Gaspard book signing a year ago.
    The following comment was originally left just a few minutes ago and left here:

    FROM Jeff Burch and Titan
    In reply to Lou Lee Belle.
    as alsolooking for randy and enjoying the chase ijeffburch had a stroke and i can say this quest saved my life some of my brain died but my thinking before the stroke saved me i truly believe this helped my brain thank you Forrest fFenn and searchers sorry for the loss of a brother treasure hunter be safe out there alwaysjeffburch and titan

  2. Glad to hear you are doing better. Hubby had congestive heart failure was in the hospital in early aug but our trip was plan first week oct. They got the fluids off heart did some testing decided to do heart sonogram saw blockages. When in for stents then they decided he needed triple bi-pass. He is doing great but our trip was toast for this yr. We will pray for you to continue to recover sir. We like you feel this HELPED our marriage, made us stronger, & broker lol

  3. Jeff and Titan,

    You continue to be included in my prayers. Stay on the road to recovery and know that you’ll never be alone. You’re going to do well!

    So happy to hear from you, and looking forward to updates. A special hug to your pal, Titan.


  4. Jeff keep writing and thinking even if it is a challenge now, it will get easier. My husband had a brain bleed from a severe injury, brain was 3/4 in off midline, surgery, drains, several months recovery. His SASS shooting brought back his coordination. It took awhile before he was safe on the firing line. Now except for the huge scar on his head, no one would know what he had gone through. Keep working towards perfection! Don’t ever give up. When you are ready to search, let me know. I’ll go with you.

  5. Just a little note to check in and tell you of our adventure. The road was closed, ugh, so that left us hoofing it again, but not nearly as far.
    As for the treasure…it’s still waiting. We didn’t get to spend as much time as we wanted, but our effort was certainly worth the cold and our searching buddy loved her adventure. I did get my orange hiking pole back. : ) On the way out from the middle of nowhere we chased the most beautiful sunset I have seen in my entire life. Looks like another road trip with our friends next year is in order.

  6. i read there was a early draft of the poem. saying look quickly down beyond the stones, take the chest but leave my bones..
    does any one , know the full version of the early draft of the poem ?

  7. Jeff ,

    Through your stregnth and determination you are an inspiration to many who are fighting their own struggles. Thank you for your caring heart and thank you for being “you”….
    My prayers are still with you my friend…
    Until next time… see ya …..


    • Jeff B. , I have heard hyperbaric oxygen therapy works wonders for stoke recovery. They use it as standard treatment in Europe. I know there are centers here in the UNITED STATES . Praying for you

      • Jeff, (Loved ones),

        ARNOLD, IMO……has offered some helpful insight into a therapeutic procedure that, IMHO, warrants some attention.

        A bit more info may be helpful:

        hyperbaric oxygen therapy in usa

        If you should wish to learn more about the subject, please do not hesitate to speak with your professional providers. (Where there’s a will…….a way can be found!)

        Time is on your side.


  8. Since becoming involved in the Chase, I have noticed a lot more people sending me emails where they sign their comment with a single initial. Friends, co-workers, spammers, etc. I don’t know if this was always the case and I just wasn’t paying attention, or if it’s a recent trendy thing to do. It’s a little annoying when the person’s name starts with an “F”, because I find that I actually read their emails and take it seriously, whether I should or not. Frank, in Accounting, has a recipe for a three-bean casserole that I know is probably not that great. I feel compelled to give it a try anyway. j

    • Slow Cooker or Crock Pot? (I love his 3BS salad, but never tried the warm casserole) He use those noisy onion straws on top?

  9. How in the world could there be another Odds n Ends page so soon?

    “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, DRONES or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.” f

    So why is it that a drone will not assist you?

    What is a drone capable of? It has a camera & get into tight spaces between trees & branches but it cannot go underground or go underwater.

    I would have to say the treasure is either buried under or behind but more importantly, you will not be able to see the chest, but only the blaze & that’s why you have to look quickly down.

    • Mindy, was it you that some weeks ago mentioned the coin pic being photoshopped? Revisit your observations; IMO it underscores the paragraph above it.

        • No, I don’t see that… there may be others, maybe a slim few that might really be hints and not humor or herrings or cutthroats. I think this is an important one.
          Location, location, location.

          • Hey OS2,
            I’ve looked at both very very closely and the one in S/B 158 is laid on a deck. Similar to home or porch deck and the one in the TTOTC is laid down on a wooden work bench. Like what Forrest has at his work shop.
            What did I miss???

          • That is another item I have looked into.

            I’m wondering if the bench is from a place he stayed at, took the picture for posterity, and then hid the chest.

          • Hi Tim, I don’t think we’re looking at the same things. Recently I’ve come to believe that the two paragraphs bracketing the poem are setting it up for the reader, and the photoshopped pile of coins is right there. You need to understand what the the pile of coins pic is saying. I did post something recently on a dormant thread that will help explain it more. But like ff, i don’t care if or when it’s found. Caring is antagonistic to freedom.

            I think the poem is written to tell several tales, one of them being about a special fishing hole. I look at word roots, colloquialisms, funny connections, etc. which I think reveal a lot about the poems architectural foundation.

            What do you think of this linkage: Capt. Kidd > pirate > cutthroat > trout? It came to me when I saw Target had a halloween costume called ‘Cutthroat Pirate’. Previously, I had a pirate reference that had to do with warm waters. It still works for the map trail.

            Study those paragraphs, ask things like, why the heck is that George Burns’ quote there? what can it possibly mean?

            After 5 years of thinking about this game, this hand has pretty good cards. I avoided using the words ‘deck’… but I will consider your ‘bench’ observations keenly. Sometimes I am so deep in my head I don’t see what is in front of me. Thanks. OS2

          • Hey Timothy, I was really addressing your post which brought my attention to some background I had missed. Thank you. I meant to say ‘Tims’ (plural), but again, that eyes-open-lids-shut bugger was using my mouth — which is really my index finger on this iPad. If the Supremes can declare ‘money is speech’ can I declare ‘my finger is my mouth’ or my speech?

            Sorry if I slighted you.

          • None taken….if you are talking to me….we all have opinions that are heard that we may or may not agree with.

            We are all just speculating on this cyptic puzzle, I learned a long time ago, if I were ever to get involved with a treasure hunt….remember Tim….you aren’t the only one out there seeking..and…put on your thick skin, because every opinion is valid until the treasure is found!


            An opening will solve this puzzle. Like someone recently said….”indecision is the key”….

            Huh? Did I just say that?


            Good luck OS2!

  10. Every other day I have to reply or resubscribe. Anyone else have this problem? I like to stay current on posts but for some reason it just shuts down after a couple of days…

  11. Since the search season is getting pretty narrow, I’ve wondered if anyone has changed or switched the state they are looking in. Zap compiled some good numbers this last summer. My guess is that most searchers are still searching the same state that they had chosen then. I have not switched states but have switched my focus to an area that is Not Far, But Too Far To Walk from where I had been searching. I seem to remember that f got switched. Has anyone else switched the state they are searching?

    • Hear me,
      I would think searchers may change states during the winter.
      The weather & temps have been unpredictable at times but for the most part, is not too bad up north & down south, but you never know when Mother Nature decides too let you know who is boss.

      I would hope those searching SW Montana continue to do so until it is found there at the blaze.

      • You think it’s at the blaze? Look quickly down… Down the cliff, trail, feet? I wouldn’t think it would be at the blaze…

        • Yes Heidini,
          I think the blaze & the treasure are within 20′ or so of each other.
          I have done a lot of research & thought the blaze may be the sun shining on a certain area at a specific time & moved on from that.

          I have thought the blaze was a trail, but that doesn’t seem to work seeing the trail extends a bit & at what part of the trail do you look quickly down.

          Thought the blaze was on a tree & know a tree won’t last.

          I think the blaze is completely natural whether a permanent rock formation, a scar on a rock, a waterfall, the surface of a pool of water, too many to list but it must stand the test of time & be natural seeing the man loved nature so much.

          • My 1st choice this year was a waterfall for the blaze, but after thinking about water high & the blaze, I don’t think he would have them both the same thing.

            To me the water high is a waterfall & the blaze is the surface of of the pool of water where you have to look quickly down.

            The surface of the pool of water is much like a mirror where you see the sky or the sun reflecting off of it. Now that’s a blaze.

            We both think somewhat alike & we both like our areas but have yet to search them thoroughly & when we walk away without the chest, we then hold onto our area & tweak our solve a little to see the next time, until we walk away for good at that spot.

            I look at this as eliminating a spot & not necessarily looking for the treasure.
            That’s what I tell myself anyway.

          • That has also been my team’s as well.

            We took it a step forward though and included a “rainbow” with the falls.

            Good luck!

          • Yes Tim,
            What are all the ways for nature to create a rainbow?
            There’s not many & a waterfall is one of them.

            We could wait for it to rain when the sun is out at our area, & be in the right position, but doesn’t seem logical.

            Funny how Forrest said we are paying too much attention to the blaze & here we go again.

          • I’ve no longer think of the blaze, because when I find it, it will lead me to the chest. I’m with FF on that one.

            So I think I know what the blaze is, I’ve posted some theories out here in Dal’s world, and still have other ideas not discliaef. But I also believe the poem is multi-layered.

            Layered in ways that one must be “wise” (expert?/advanced?/or some other level of knowledge) in trails/wilderness, alertness, fun, and probably a bit of luck thrown in.

            If you have these components, you can then see the different expressions the words the poem reveals.

            “Ask a child what warm waters are to them”…and you will then see an opening to fun, imagination and adventure. The alertness and knowledge of the wilderness will have to come with experience (“getting off the couch and electronics thingies”…you get the drift.

            Those are clues in themselves.

            Bill Murray said it wonderfully n Caddtshack…

            ” Be the ball.”

            Grasp the meaning….keep it simple….enjoy!

            In truth…I think that is why Dam has searched long and hard with nothing but stories. Granted..great stories no doubt…but not the “best” story yet, huh?

            He may not have taken this approach….Being Forrest Fenn…..

            That is how you will find the treasure…simple enough, huh?

            Nope. Difficult not impossible….means solvable.

            Good luck!

          • @Tim (ZosoRocks) – I’ve asked children their opinions on warm waters. They always tell me “bath” or “pool”.

            Ojo is a word that also means this, among other things like “spring” and “eye”.

          • Tim,
            I don’t think any special knowledge is needed. An expert or advanced type of knowledge, I think was ruled out by Forrest. An average person should be able to find the treasure.

            I think we are overthinking things way too much.
            I know, there’s lots of you here that have tried the straightforward approach & have failed & that’s why some have morphed into thinking this way.

            Yes, keep it simple.
            “Be Forrest”

          • Or the turbid water at a fall’s base that one needs to wait for a “window” in order to see down. Look quickly..just a thought.

          • As long as the waters are not too turbid during spring runoff which can be a torrent & the chest would wash away down stream, I think it will be safe in a deep pool created over thousands of years where the torrent will not affect it that much until thousands of years down the road.

            My solve involves water at some point & near or in the end point.

        • From Weekly Words May 2016
          Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze? ~ casey

          Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. Does that help?f

          Hope this helps.

    • Hey Jake,
      Failure is not measured by how many times you fall down, Failure is measured by the one time that you don’t get back up and try again…

    • Thank you for the reminder, 23kachinas. The link may be helpful this time because it’s a little cool in Denver right now and it’s only 9 o’clock. This morning we had our first (?) freeze; temps were in the low-to-mid 20’s.

      • During this show Tricia Ennis covered the Mythology of Orion. Viewing online a nice alternative to cold weather and/or cloudy skies.

  12. Y’ever look up the word “grave” on google definitions? More connections than I would have imagined.

    Don’t dig up someone’s grave. It’s not in a graveyard.

    • Then where would someone’s grave be, if not in a graveyard? An undertaker one comforted me when I thought I saw stuff moving in a funeral parlor. He said “here you go kid” and handed me a bottle of Vicks44. He said “this lights stop that coffin”.

      • @Joe Sparrow –

        grave (2) – serious, heavy, evolving from the Latin root gravis.

        grave (3) – engrave, like the blaze was graven on the stone.

        grave (4) – clean (like a ship’s bottom) by burning and then tarring. Some people interpret “tarry scant” a different way than “don’t dillydally”.

        Fenn has lots of grave and graveyard references in his book. So many that he had to release a new “clue” that it wasn’t in a graveyard because his undertones were inspiring people to want to dig up graves. I just found it provocative.

      • Joe Sparrow…I have found many graves that were not in graveyards in my travels thru out the west. The discovery is always sobering. Think about the Camino Real, The Spanish Trail, the Oregon Trail to name a few. Burials followed and adjoined the trails, and there were many. Some of the burials I have found are truly ancient, some more recent. Sometimes it is a grave marker or headstone seemingly in the middle of nowhere. I found an arbor glyph a few years ago inscribed “Joe F. died here”. With the date…I think it was 1937. Old sheepherding trail. I have a friend that dowses for old grave sites (he is a historian). So many have gone before us…

        • As you stated above…concerning “sheep herding trails”…..you do realize, that you have now just add another time of trail that is not really a “human made trail”.

          It clearly reminds me of my trek to MT and into the “wood”/wilderness, and when I was approached by a meandering herd of COWs!! Ferocious as they where, I stood my ground and showed courage and they went about their way….lucky for me, huh?

          Anyhow…my point being was that this alternate “trail”, truly reflects simplicity, being wise enough to figure it out, and a possible for within the poem and how to get to the end.

          Interesting. Thanks for posting.

    • E.C. Waters – I did not get a chance to respond to your reply to a comment I made some time ago about you being from KS. I will now.

      I’m from KS as well and as I’ve read your past posts. I’ve seen that you have imagination. Enough imagination for all the state of KS. In my opinion the correct solve takes imagination but not near as much as you’ve thrown in. If you can dial it back a bit and think, it will might work better for you. You definitely have the energy, so balance it with a little more logic and the results might surprise you. I’ve not seen many Kansans on this hunt which does surprise me since we are close enough to the Rockies to make it a little easier than those that search from a long distance.

      Good luck in the chase!

      • @Hear me all – thank you for your feedback. I’ve been studying NM lately, trying to take a more straightforward approach. The vicinity near Ojo Caliente has recently somewhat held my curiosity, and seems to fit well with my desire to transform Spanish meanings.

        In my defense, the overdoses of imagination have been a result of not solving using straightforward means in the past. This would seem a natural progression to me. There have been a few indications from Fenn (whether intended for people like me or not) that I’ve taken to heart and am now attempting to recalibrate.

        From where in Kansas do you hail? I am in Overland Park (when not in NYC).

  13. Hey Dal… I just read that the Ferry out to Lummi went out of service tonight. They are hoping it will be back up tomorrow. Hope your not stranded on the island 🙂

  14. Still new here, lots to know yet, but I can’t understand the preoccupation
    with “water” for location of chest. Isn’t it accepted that ff has said the
    chest is at the spot or very near to the spot where he wanted his bones
    to rest? Would he put his carcass in a river or creek or waterfall etc?

    Didn’t he go IN there alone? In a river, creek, waterfall, etc? Really?
    Doesn’t the poem say “if you are ………IN the wood ….” ??

    So now those who think that everything that the clues refer to or represent
    has to last for hundreds or thousands of years can put me on iggy,
    we’ll have to agree to disagree.

    Somewhere in ff’s writings I saw him mention something to the effect
    that he might hide a treasure at the base of a tree with his initial “F”
    carved in the tree. There was a picture or drawing of it. Can anyone
    find that reference, please? Might that not be a nod and a wink what
    “the blaze” looks like? Is a nod as good as a wink to a blind horse?
    Forrest has indicated that in the decades since high school his self-
    esteem is in good working order; why not an “F”?

    In a wood there is ground cover and duff and blow-downs and a
    continuous shedding of dead material covering the floor so a marking
    on the floor wouldn’t be visible for long, leaving, imo, a mark on a tree
    as the most likely solution. From there it’s what…12 or 20 feet to the
    chest? Which is still hidden, in a hollow log or tree stump (which won’t
    last for long) or under a rock or who knows? It’s not as big as the
    proverbial pirate’s chest is always depicted!

    I was checking out http://www.sinkcanyonstatepark.org ref conifer habitat.
    The Popo Agie River (not Creek) flows down and disappears (halts?)
    into Sinks Canyon. There is doug fir and limber pine on one side of the
    canyon and sagebrush on the other. Nice. Couldn’t make much else
    work…no warm water, no creek etc. but there was some food for thought:
    They have a high water table there (“water high”?)
    That part of Wyoming was covered by prehistoric oceans which were
    uplifted (“water high”?) during the mountain building epoch. Seems like
    a stretch to me but…

    More importantly was the statement that the Pine Bark Beetles have
    devastated forests across the West due to the decade-long drought.
    California has mind boggling swaths of dead pinkish-looking fir trees
    that can be seen from Google satellite, for instance. I know this first
    hand, we lost two pines in the backyard due to them.

    Forest fires are going to get more, and worse I would think. The
    wood could burn, the tree with the blaze could take the big dirt nap
    at any time, it won’t last for centuries for sure (in my world, in my

    If Forrest truly doesn’t care if or when the chest is found, why is he
    giving more and more clues as time goes on??? I sense a growing
    urgency for the chest to be found, probably for many reasons:
    He really really wants the bracelet after all, he’s getting stressed out
    over the escalating coverage and media frenzy, his health is suffering,
    he’s sad about people taking risks that they shouldn’t, he’s unhappy
    about the clueless activity in Yellowstone??? And he knows that
    trees will die before 10,000 years? Also, it seems that The Spot
    is getting hotter (more people around, more Ranger scrutiny?)
    Is this why he said to leave your partner in the car? With the motor
    running for a fast getaway?

    I think the blaze is on a tree in a wood and it won’t last forever.

    Also, I have a crazy idea what “water high” is that fits with “wood”.

    It’s gonna be a long winter.

    • A very thoughtful post. Thanks for posting it.

      Regarding your sink hole Popo Agie river area. Didn’t Forrest say that that was four of the best days of his life, even though he only spent two days with his 14 year old Avis guide?

      This is not my area of search, but I gave it quite a look-over. There was a Warm Spring on the not-to-far away Indian Reservation. You might look that up.

      I could not make the clues work, but maybe you can. I could not find a suitable hoB…good luck to you.

      Regarding an “F” on a tree. Here is an article that seems to discount the “F” on a tree as a blaze:

      Quote from an interview by the California Sun Magazine.
      Out in the sculpture garden, Fenn beckoned me over and gestured toward the trunk of a thick white poplar tree. “See the F carved in there? That’s my initial.” The letter was barely legible now, a gray-brown knot that I never would have noticed if he hadn’t pointed it out. Fenn waved distastefully at another blur of gray, farther up the trunk. “There were other F’s there, but they’re obliterated now.”
      Such ravages of time are often on his mind now that he’s nearing his 85th birthday, though Fenn remains matter-of-fact about the prospect of his days coming to an end. “If I get Alzheimer’s, I’m going to flag my calendar for six months from now and do it my own way,” he told me. “Hopefully at my last dying gasp I will still go back to that place and die at my favorite …” He trailed off, perhaps wary of giving out a clue.

      It COULD be an “F” on a tree, but because of this article, I doubt it. Just MY opinion though, and what do I know? NADA JDA

      • I found this interesting from that article JD.

        “Hopefully at my last dying gasp I will still go back to that place and die at my favorite …” He trailed off, perhaps wary of giving out a clue.

        Fishing spot?

        I wish he had finished that statement.

      • I was reviewing photos of the treasure chest the other day. I seem to recall a statement attributed to, or from, FF, that the treasure is “wet”. Could that also mean “damp”. The bronze chest and its contents will weather the test of time but the velvet lining will not. Do you think this lends any credence to the chest being in a shallow ledge or crevice near a waterfall (where rainbows are often found)?

        • Miller time,
          I have never heard of the chest having a velvet liner.
          I believe it is some kind of wood that will not be affected by water considering the chest is very old & probably not water tight.

          Forrest has made 2 such statements about the chest being wet that I know of & one of those was this year On MW WW I believe. I suppose damp could be wet as well.

          I’ve put my money in or near water as well as cascades & waterfall. I think the only way someone is not going to stumble or happen upon the chest is because it’s either buried under dirt or water but maybe in a crevice knee level but not eye level.

          • Jake,
            Thanks for the note. I seem to recall the treasure chest photo shows what appears to be a velvet liner under the lid. I will double check that. But, if simplicity counts, the idea of FF secreting the box near, but not in, water in proximity to a water fall makes perfect sense. Has anyone searched a location called Treasure Creek? It looks interesting on Google but I can’t find the HOB connection.

          • Treasure Creek Gunnison County CO?

            Looks like you found my mary plants growing there.
            I didn’t think anyone would find them buried in the forest with no roads around.
            38.435026, -106.341122

            That creek looks difficult to get to.

          • We must have different Treasure Creeks. I don’t see that trail or road there Robert.
            Send some coordinates my way.
            All you have to do is click on the map & the coordinate box will pop up in G Maps.

          • Yup,
            We got different Treasure creeks.
            Dunno Robert, never gave that creek or the other creeks labeled Treasure much thought as well as other areas, places, homes, called Brown or anything too close to words in the poem or having the same name in the book when it comes to details. I want to stay away from these too easy avenues.

            I’m sure someone can make all the clues fit there or anywhere for that matter.
            I want to start at the beginning WWWH & work my way to the blaze, which I don’t know what it is, but others gloat they know for sure what it is.

          • Looking around on Google, that spot near the end of the road looked interesting. If I were FF that area seems do-able in a one day outing by vehicle. I’ve not been in that area but wouldn’t be surprised to find some warm water in the area. I do not know if there are any cattle in the area, so this may be completely off the mark. But, force fitting my thoughts have never worked out. And, I’m not leaving Michigan until more things reveal themselves.

          • Looks like an interesting area to me Robert, but I don’t think you want to look at areas where he would want to hide it, that’s kinda like putting the carriage before the horse.

            Reverse engineering does not make much sense with this blueprint.
            Especially when he has stated to start at the 1st clue & not the blaze.

          • Consider moss also. A spot that is almost always wet from the spray and mist of the waterfall…a place where moss would grow profusely.

            Just a thought

            Hidden clues in stanza #5 have led me to feel that I am right in my paragraph above. JDA

          • Good point. I hadn’t thought of moss but it makes sense. That would also shrink the search area, if correct.

        • Being a stone sculptor, I can assure you Robert that unless you are using special tools, you are not about to carve your “F” on a piece of petrified wood out in the woods. Not sure that was a well thought-out post Robert. JDA

  15. RE: “near water” comments. To revisit an old idea…”so hear me all and listen good”. It would seem with this awkward word choice that perhaps FF was avoiding or HIDING the word “well”. In hush puppies and blue jeans he talks about a “cistern of ideas”. Old cisterns and wells are usually lined with stone…stones that could be removed to secret a damp treasure. Just a few thoughts.

      • A Cistern with a liner. Not uncommon. Well worth the effort. Absolutely. (Even if it happens to be on ‘private’ property?)



    • Well Sandy,
      The grammar expert on this site told me that the grammar was fine & Forrest followed all the rules according to his teacher about 60+ years ago.

      Maybe he typed an extra o in good by accident & should be.
      So hear me all & listen god,

      I do believe a well has something to do with the solve but not a man made well.

      • Jake, you make me laugh sometimes. And I concur, the grammar is correct. But, you have to admit that it is awkward. It sounds kind of “aw shucks” if that isn’t horribly un-PC. If you are going to hide something, you might hide it first in the poem. The extra “o” theory is the best I’ve heard so far.

      • Recently I read something where ff wrote the word WET, but the context indicated he meant the word WHET. So if anybody has those old ‘wet’ quotes, I might be good to review them. Or were they audio?

        • Here is one of the posts:
          Dear Forrest,
          You have said in the cold months to wait for the snow to melt and the mud to dry. Considering much of the Rockies are subject to random and frequent bouts of precipitation, when is the mud ever dry? ~Thanks, I’m Inohury
          Ha, elementary question my dear Inohury.
          A friend’s six year-old daughter told me that mud can never dry because if it did it wouldn’t be mud anymore.
          Please don’t ask me to argue the point. F

          A second post said:
          Posted on August 2, 2016 by Jenny Kile
          Surprise Words from Forrest:
          Lots of rain in New Mexico. Some mountain roads are washing downhill. Please be mud aware. F

          Hope these help – JDA

    • The reason Mr. Fenn used the word “Good” instead of “well” is merely the fact that he needed a word that rhymed with WOOD.

      Lets get back to the place where warm waters HALT ..??

      • Listen well means you understood what you heard. Listen good means you can hear the sounds well. Maybe hearing an echo, or rushing water or something.
        I’m no grammarian, but that’s my poor interpretation of the dictionary explanations.

    • SandyB, I agree with you: that the word “well” might be important. In the book TTOTC, (after the preface) the first word in the book is “Well”. I have found an old well in my favorite search area. The well is pretty close to a petroglyph. I think the petroglyph & the well lead me to the Treasure. I’m hesitant to believe the chest is AT a well, because almost every well has a trail leading to it. Ff has said, the treasure is not within close proximity to a human trail.

      • Golden…I stumbled upon an old cistern (or possibly well?) near a promising search area a few weeks ago. It was near an abandoned, falling down cabin. The circular shaft, about 10′ deep and maybe a 4′ diameter, was constructed of cinder block type material that had a white thick plaster on the water facing aspect of the block. There was about 3″ of water in the bottom of the well. The dimensions of the construction blocks were pretty exciting…if a person were to remove a block or 2 a chest would slip right in the gap that was left…and be barely visible, even with a strong flashlight which I just happened to have with me. I took a lot of pictures of my reflection in the water and the walls of the well to see if I could find a hint, but I didn’t. Had there been petroglyphs nearby, I would have fainted. You are on the right path, I believe. Got charged by a bear that day, which was pretty exciting also! Actually, the bear was on a dead run and didn’t realize I was in it’s path…until it was about 30 feet away. Pretty fun day all around.

        • PS…if that cistern/well hadn’t been near some remote, not commercially developed hots springs yet accessible by vehicle if you have the key to the gate, I probably wouldn’t have given it a second thought. Just in case anyone wants to talk about WWWH.

        • Sounds like a great spot. It sounds like someone did a good job building that well. That’s wild that the bear was running in your direction. Yikes.

  16. Robert…Treasure Falls near Pagosa are very impressive. The creek is remote and access to water high formidable. I could never work out WWWH for that spot. Or HOB for that matter. Great ski area right up the road…maybe some rabbit ears nearby.

  17. I know this is a little “out there”…but what are the chances he put it in a lodgepole pine and let it grow for years? Or really in other tree’s your effort would be worth the cold because you couldn’t see it covered in leaves….sure a tree would eventually die, but at that point nature would just be rehiding the box in a way….

    • I’m not sure this could work. Many of the lodgepole pines that burned in the ’88 fire in Yellowstone are growing, but they’re not that tall; that’s 28 years ago.

    • Jonsey,

      First you have to focus and read the first stanza. This is the beginning . “IT” also tells you where to start.

      Think Big place to small place.

      p.s. For once I was blind…..Now I’m deaf too !!

      Mike out….

      • Ya know Mike, I also believe there is a macro to micro kind of look to this poem.

        Check this out.

        If one were look at a region in GE, they are in aerial mode / “macro”….but as you delve deeper into looking for canyons, creeks, etc. ….and….altough still in a “macro” view, you are also looking for those “micro” bits of the poem.

        One could also say that FF could have looked at a region on a map in the macro view, and decided to say, ” put in below” to represent a movement into an area below “hoB”. The brings the pkayer, into an immediate “micro” view…with….”no place for the meek”….a national forest in BLM land.

        Simplicity, yet a bit of cleverness, yet another chunk of imagination….and the picture is beginning to form.

        Happy hunting.

          • It’s when he said: It’s not in a tree but surrounded by trees. I see his quote in Cynthia’s story “Orilla Verde” dated March 2014. I’ll keep looking for where the quote came from originally.

          • And remember when we were all thinking: Everything is surrounded by trees, if you look far enough away? Hee hee . . . anyway; I’ll keep looking for the quote.

          • Jonsey1, I’m so sorry. I can’t find where that statement came from. You can see the statement on the Searcher’s Story Titled “Perfect Solution or Not”. However, I know that doesn’t prove to you that it’s a correct statement from ff.

            There’s a few very organized people on this blog who can find anything and everything ff ever said . . . where are you very organized people . . . ? Help me out here . . .

          • With Forrest’s sometimes extreme literalism, not in a tree could mean something like “You can’t go through a door, but you can go through a doorway.” (Paraphrased)

            Like it’s not IN a tree, but could be ON a tree branch.

          • Look quickly up, your quest to cease?
            If it’s in or on a tree, then I am at a loss.
            I highly doubt it’s in or on a tree.
            If YOU are brave and in the wood, not the chest…..

          • Jake and all-
            The original statement is from years and years ago…maybe 4 or 5…It was from a time when Stephanie was looking around Cimarron, NM. It comes up every once in awhile.

            Here is what was said about that quote over a year ago…


            Stephanie got that answer in an email from Forrest…and she shared it in a number of places.
            The next sentence in his reply is also essential..
            “Of course if you go far enough out, everything is surrounded by trees.”

            I personally believe that actually is a quote from Forrest. He has never denied it.
            But I still look up when I am out searching…
            Just as I may not believe the chest is hidden in water but I look look there too…just in case…

          • Thanks for clearing that up dal,
            Well, at least we know who said it anyway.
            So where are you Stephanie?

            As far as it being in a tree & looking up when you’re searching, I think you may miss something down. I guess it could be in a tree & I would hope it falls on me & kills me when I walk by. At least I will die knowing it found me.

          • E.C. Waters, Thank you! You are my hero.

            So this statement, I repeated, is “here-say” & should be “used cautiously”. I’m so embarrassed – I’m one of those people spreading rumors that aren’t true. Oh No!

            Jonsey1 – Thanks for questioning me.
            E.C. Waters – Thanks for correcting me.

            Once when I was searching, I saw a huge, wasp nest way up in a tree. It was the biggest wasp nest I’ve ever seen – it was large enough to hold the Treasure Chest. I ignored the wasp nest, since I thought the treasure wasn’t in a tree. Now I realize I should go back, climb up the tree, and grab that wasp’s nest & bring it to my car. It’s probably not a real wasp’s nest; and the Treasure Chest is probably hidden inside it.

            Just kidding – the wasps buzzing around the nest looked very real!

          • @ Golden: Ask and ye shall receive! 🙂

            Not to worry, in this case you are in fine company spreading hearsay.

            You may have first read it here–> http://dalneitzel.com/2013/01/27/rumors-abound-2/

            🙂 Per Dal:

            Surrounded by trees – Forrest once wrote to a searcher that the chest was not hidden in a tree but that it was surrounded by trees. I suppose it is useful to know that the chest is not in a tree but the notion that it is surrounded by trees is definitely not a clue. Everything is surrounded by trees if you go far enough out. This is exactly the kind on non-clue a trickster would deliver.

            toodle-ooo………loco 🙂

          • Locolobo, Now I remember . . . YOU are the person who can find anything anyone ever said!! This isn’t the first time you’ve found a statement (from the past) for me! Thank you again!

          • Thank you for reposting, locolobo. Not only do I like this one, but I also like his response to a searcher when asked what he would want done to the treasure once it is found. Not only does he have a sense of humor, but also a bit humble.

          • Mindy, I remember someone who agrees with you: A few years ago, someone explained a very fun solve on this blog, which took them thru a town in, or near, Yellowstone (if I remember correctly). The solve went into a park . . . and the author of this solve, said the treasure chest might be up in a tree. And then the author said something like: I know ff says the treasure isn’t in a tree, but maybe it’s hidden “ON” a branch up the tree.

            Maybe I should go back and get that wasp’s nest. Now we need, not only a chainsaw; but also a beekeepers suit.

      • Did Forrest ever say “don’t mess with my poem” publicly or did he only say this to Dal in private? If he said it publicly I cannot find it. I am not questioning Dal’s sincerity, I truly believe Forrest said this to Dal and it is in the “cheat sheet” but if he never said it publicly why is it considered more of an actual fact than him telling Stephanie “it is not in a tree”? Do y’all not believe he said this to Stephanie or do y’all not count it as an actual fact from Forrest because he never said it publicly? I am just trying to get my public vs privately stated “facts” straight…

        • Good point Mark… I can say the same for reporter’s written explanation and their opinion to what they thinks fenn refers to.

          Fact finding is more important than trust… no matter how trustworthy someone is.
          Not unlike some who says fenn told me what the first clue is, because he mentioned wwwh it an email.

          • Seeker,

            I have my own personal “actual facts” cheat sheet, these are things I have heard or read Forrest actually say in public, 5000-10200 feet, not in a graveyard, etc, and then I have my “possible facts” cheat sheet, these are things people have said Forrest has said, second hand, in emails or personal conversations etc. If somebody like Stephanie or Cynthia or Dal or Jenny say Forrest said something to them in private but I cannot find anywhere he said it publicly it goes in my “possible facts”, I have no reason to doubt these good people but if I can’t find anywhere he actually said it publicly my strict rules have to put those things in the “possible facts” column and not in the “actual facts” column. Based on my strict criteria I will confess I still have the “don’t mess with my poem” quote in the “possible facts” column, until I hear Forrest say it publicly I still mess with the poem and look up in the trees periodically, especially the Bristlecone Pine trees, but the trees do have to be between 5000-10200 feet and not in a graveyard…

          • Mark I agree with you…….I’ve been very careful about what went on the cheat sheet. Which is why there are just a few items in the “what we are taking as fact” section. The reason it’s still there is because of the comment Fenn made in Scrapbook 114 as someone pointed out.

          • Mark,
            Like your “fact sheet” to “possible facts,” I like to add the common sense rule as well.
            My example would be Dal’s recalling what fenn told him, to be one of those.

            It’s common sense, that recollection, aligns with know fact fenn has stated. Amount of time spent on the poem, an architect wrote the poem, words look like simple words, but guarantees he work on it etc. etc. All seemingly saying the same, as the warnings fenn has mentioned… You will ignore the poem at your own peril, for example.

            While none of what in the above states any true fact… common sense may imply, more fact than fiction. IMO, mess with the poem, to mean, alter or change from the original… why would we?

            I think we’re saying the same.

          • Mark – I am like you, I collect all the statements I can find as related to the treasure chest and separate them into the two groups. Those specifically from f carry the most weight. Those from all other sources I find very useful and beneficial for analysis, but certainly subject to interpretation error.

            When one puts all of it together and looks at the big picture of everything that has been said or supposedly said by f, it is not hard to see those things which are likely incorrect jump out.

            When this game is over, I expect that the person who carries out the chest will be one who has used all the information they can find, applied logic, and successfully inferred bits and pieces of the puzzle to create a framework from which they are able to develop the correct solution. The person will have come at it from all sides and thoroughly thought it all through. “Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with their imagination.”

            I do not anticipate that a person who approaches this as if they are building a bullet proof court case based only on hard, first hand evidence will be able to figure this out and solve it, especially if they are accepting everything f has said as unquestionable fact while mostly dismissing everything else. There are a number of contradictions that exist in f’s own statements.

            f has said “I reserve the right to be wrong once in a while.” And I have a specific quote from f that he gave me that proves this statement.

            At the end of the day, I can readily accept from others what they say f has said, not that I implicitly trust them. I can run it against everything else that is out there and easily see if it lines up or contradicts, and when it lines up, it becomes another thread that is twisted onto a thickening rope.

            I like your thought on the “Don’t mess with my poem.” It is from Dal, not from f. If you go and read Dal’s comments and experience with f on the 300 miles WEST of Toledo in Rumors Abound 2 and compare it to Dal’s story of “Don’t mess with my poem”, then maybe we should eagerly begin messing with the poem. Not that I am going to do so because I am comfortable accepting Dal’s posted statements about what f has said to him. 🙂

          • JCM,
            Halt & walk.
            I think it’s best not to mess with the poem.

            “By the way. A couple of years ago I had a discussion with Forrest about “halt” not rhyming with “walk”. I was suggesting that one of those words might not be the right word and once the real word was put in place…and rhymed…that things became much clearer…
            Forrest listened to me for a little bit and then jumped in and told me very directly, “Don’t mess with my poem.”

            So I have not tried to change his poem in any way since then…


            I will buy this statement by dal 100%.

        • Forrest at least once publicly referenced (but not quite repeated) the “don’t mess with my poem” in scrapbook 114:

          “There was no way a slippery sided smallmouth black bass was going to scratch the paint on my special, sculptural artforms. That’d be tantamount to messing with my poem. f”

          I think it is more important to understand what he actually meant when he said “don’t mess with my poem”. When he talks about mouthy fish, I think he is referring to blabber-mouth searchers.

      • Muset, you are correct, thanks for pointing that out. I have read all the SB’s a few times but never caught that line, he clearly mentions messing with my poem. I stand corrected…

        I replied to your comment before but it went to the bottom of this page so hopefully this one will show up under your comment. Thanks again.

    • LOL Jonsey… that’s not a little out there. Maybe its a bit twisted…
      See what I did there, lol… twisting tree.
      Ok, bad humor aside… along with a shovel, metal detector, boat, scuba gear and a deli sandwich… we need a chainsaw as well?

      I do get the point of nature’s way of hiding things, but I have to wonder… what considerations did fenn take to help preserve the chest [ IF any ]. The chest is a valuable piece itself and dated to 1150AD. Wouldn’t it seem reasonable that the hide is a spot that would protect the chest and the contents as best as possible? Other wise he could have used a Tupperware container.

      I’m not being sarcastic… I’m attempting to be realistic in thought. fenn said he pick this chest for this challenge and paid 25K. I have a hard time thinking, if nobody will stumble upon it… he took the exact 10″ sq. spot in great consideration. I guess you can call my line thinking, part of… “I thought of everything”

      • Add the chainsaw to the mix LOL,
        Talking about time & when someone will find it does relate to how it’s hidden.
        But there are some things he has said that make me wonder.
        1,000 – 10,000 years down the road?

        “Well, you don’t know where it is,” he said, grinning. “When somebody finds that treasure chest, everybody’s going to say, ‘My God! Why didn’t I think of that?”

        We won’t be here 1,000 years down the road & chances are the chase will be much less known & searched then if it’s hasn’t been found already.
        There’s 60,000 – 100,000 people searching now & I think we are near the peak of people involved.
        Everything has a pinnacle & i think it’s just about there.

        Once we all die out, who will be left to spread the word?
        I think the people searching will get less & less every year after a few more years.

        I don’t think you have 60,000 people out there searching for any of these other treasures that were hidden many years ago & some hundreds & thousands of years ago.

        So, I see this statement by Forrest: ““Well, you don’t know where it is,” he said, grinning. “When somebody finds that treasure chest, everybody’s going to say, ‘My God! Why didn’t I think of that?’”
        That someone is going to find it within 30 years maximum.
        Besides, 200′ isn’t all that far away when you look at the big picture.

      • Make perfect sense. The chest is almost certainly protected. Ledges, caves, above water but moist. Someone mentioned moss yesterday as well. I’m thinking Colorado after giving up on NM, WY, and Montana. Anyone done any research on D.R.C. Brown around Carbondale? Penny Hot Springs? Crystal River?

        • Robert— I think you are very wise to look in Colorado. I would encourage others to do the same. The state could use the tourism dollars.

          All the best in your search. 🙂

        • Hah, Penny Hot Springs is our local hippie dip. Pull over on the side of 133, and take a soak with whatever other fascinating individuals decided it was the place to be. Gotten pretty popular the last five years. If you ‘take it in the canyon down,’ you would be heading back towards Carbondale. The other direction does lead to the more scenic and remote villages of Redstone and Marble, but no river sentient person (rafter, kayaker or flyfisherman) would ever consider upstream, down. That just feels weird. The downstream stretch of the Crystal is beautiful, but really never gets more than 100 yards away from the road, at least not until you are well out of the canyon and into private ranchland. Avalanche Creek would be the only place of interest, and that might be worth looking into…Not sure I see a lot of parallels, but who am I to say? Happy Hunting! Drop me a line if you’re in the area.

    • It’s nice to some conversation on how it’s hidden, I tried to bring this up over in the hidey space. I’ve been working on this part since Feb. How do you hide something you don’t want found for 500-1000 years?

      That leaves me pondering…………if you are brave and in the wood.

        • Lol…that’s cute, but I do not think it’s in or under a tree or fallen tree. That would leave me wondering about how I would precisely know which tree to go to before I go. Think of how many trees there are in the RM. Billions.
          I’m happy with where I’m going, but it leaves me in turmoil with bravery. Why do I need to be brave(?) and the question of the who, what, where, when, and why of the wood and how that in conjunction with bravery will give me title to the gold? PS Thanks for your reply. : ) KM

          • KM,
            Bravery is similar, yet different in usages to brave; To take on a challenge, endure, daring, withstanding. etc.
            Bravery to me seem more courage, heroism, having nerve ~ that no fear type attitude, etc.
            So is “in the wood” only to mean tree[s]? spooky dark scary woodland.. or those things that go bump in the night thoughts.

          • Does this have anything to do with the most recent ww…*Victory will always justify the effort. f

            So… what brave effort in the wood that victory will justify……..do we have to do to find what is hidden? I need more coffee…..

          • Kedar’s Mom;

            It is so hard to answer your question without sounding like a “Know-it-all”, but there are lines in the poem that do lead the searcher from the millions, or even billions of trees, down to a small grove of trees, in a particular place. From there, there are even lines which (at least to me) tell the searcher which small group of trees, within that grove of trees to look beneath.

            I wish that I could be more exact, but alas, I can not at this point in time. I honestly do not want to come across as a “Know it all”, because I certainly do not “Know it all”. I just know a little, but hope to learn more soon.

            Best of luck to you in your search Kedar’s Mom…may you find all that you seek and TRY and STAY SAFE


          • Q: So is “in the wood” only to mean tree[s]? spooky dark scary woodland.. or those things that go bump in the night thoughts.

            A: I just don’t think it’s tree(s) or dark scary woodland. You thoughts may vary. Things that go bump in the night thoughts? Not sure what you mean.

            It says brave in the poem not bravery, so I just go with my understanding of brave. : )

          • JDA if that is precise enough for you then that’s great. My understand of precise is a little different, kinda like that little X on an archery target, that’s what I aim for. : ) I love archery, but dry fired my bow a couple years ago on accident. Need a new Diamond.

          • K’s Mom…so I’m reading this poem that is replete throughout with phrases about fishing and canoeing and I know that this past time is about 8200 years old. I also know that the early nomadic practitioners of this activity made seasonal pilgrimages in very distinct types of areas and made their lapped siding boats out of very specific types of tree bark or layers. I also know that acquiring a cache evidencing this culture was a highlight of FF’ s life according to statements he made. While I know that following game trails on hillsides can be harrowing at times, and paddling quickly across typically cold trout streams can test your metal, I know that being methodical and deliberate should make the endeavor worth my effort. I am also aware that canyon water lines 8200 years ago during the close of the last ice age, may well have been a hundred or two hundred feet higher than they are now. Angles of seasonal material deposition repose (lake turnovers) and watermarks can give searchers hint’s of where waterlines were higher. Does this answer your question?

          • KM;

            How accurate do you want to get? I go from a very large group of trees,(A forest) to a grove of pines to a very small number of trees (Probably no more than 3 or 4) to look under the boughs of. I think that that is pretty darned accurate.

            If you want more accuracy, good luck to you my fair lady. I f the accuracy you want is as small as an X on an archery target, you may never leave the comfort of your lap top. Sorry if I sound cynical, I don’t mean to, it just came out that way.


          • My point only KM is, maybe brave and wood are not common usages.
            I also could suggest that the reason we may have problems understanding or using later parts of the poem… because we don’t understand fully the start of the poem.

            Example; Lets have some Halloween fun and say, no place for the meek refers to a ghost town. Does this thought change ‘brave’ to a child like challenge. A dare to take on the challenge… I dare you to go in alone? Compared to bravery to mean dangerous situation or something courageous.
            In the wood might refer to the saying, in a coffin, referring to the dead town [ ghost town ] Does the place or even the name of the town have something to do with a prior clue.. Dirty Britchesville?
            [all stated in a poetic writing]

            Would riches new and old, have a different perspective in this case? Life and death… present and past, maybe of the town itself.

            What is the “Riches” we seek, to the “Riches” fenn tells of?
            [ the above are only examples ]

            Or is this poem only to be straightforwards ~ to the way we hope it to be [ common usages of words ], and brave is only facing danger and wood is just a bunch of trees.

            I must say it’s good to see that you are considering this section of the poem so carefully, [ in my mind].
            Others halt their journey at after 9 lines.

            Hope that helped, if nothing more than than a different perspective.

          • Seeker,
            I like your Halloween analogy it does help to try and see a bigger picture for the ENTIRE poem. Is that what were missing a big picture for the entire poem?

          • Seeker,

            Sorry, not sure how to get these replies to nest properly, I am glad to hear from you today. I cannot see all of your questions on my screen and scrolling around is a pain, so forgive me for not answering them. I appreciate your perspective information today. : )


            Your words are very interesting, did they answer my question? That’s hard to say you didn’t reference the question and try to avoid assuming at all costs. They were amazing people to live in a time long ago forgotten. I can only imagine the adventures and the treasures of their lives.


            Yes, I think it does require that much accuracy. If you have narrowed it down to three or four trees out of millions of trees in the rm, I’m impressed. Happy hunting. ; )

      • If you are “in the wood” then you “hit the bulls eye” …if you didn’t then you are in the horse hair area of the dartboard…one way of looking at it IMO.

  18. Nice trees 🙂 I didn’t mean lodge poles specifically just used as an example of a fast growing tree, another tree may conceal with leaves etc. Just a random thought.

    On that note (even if not a tree…say even a railcar…or something else I’d rather not mention) it
    Would be interesting to know if TC has moved and how far since placed. For example, on a ferry boat or the caboose of a train….it would still be right where he put it, one could walk right up to it…only it might be miles away from where it was left. I do, entertain the thought of it moving north in a tree though just cause I wish I’d
    Think of a hide like that.

  19. Speaking of “banco” … oh, we weren’t? Sorry.

    Just found Banco Julian today in my studies, somewhere near Olguin Mesa (Tea with Olga?). They’re in Rio Arriba County, which kinda means “water high”.

    Just some more provocation from Kansas. I’ve been stuck on “banco” for a while, so this was a surprise for me to find it, being unfamiliar and not having spent any time in the area.

    • E.C.,

      You are spending to much effort on spanish words and there meanings……perhaps you spent too much time gazing out the window in Spanish class when you were just a we lad …???

      Go back to the first stanza as it is the beginning…. that is the best place for your effort .

      Mike out….

      • Hey Mike – just go get it and end this whole discussion. Your contributions are …

        Where’s that poop emoticon when you need it?

  20. Who thinks the chest is at the blaze and who thinks it at WWWH? And who thinks the blaze and warm waters halt are the same thing?

    • @Heidini – my working hypothesis is that the blaze provides confirming information on where to find the chest, but I don’t believe it is the end. I have to believe there is a reason for several more lines to the poem (map), and looking quickly down is just another piece of the puzzle.

      “Questa, NM” comes to mind, but I have yet to put all of this together in a coherent solution.

      • In full transparency, my current “straight forward” hypothesis suggests to transform the poem and perceived book hints like “tie to a post” into place names or historical people in the area, which, when plotted onto and connected on a map, may show a centroid for where to go. I may be way off, but that’s what I’m thinking at the moment.

        • O totally agree with straight forward, or centered. My only reason being logically knowing he knew the spot, it seems as if the rest of the points were scattered randomly one would only need the last clue. I think the most important location is referenced as the first often because, he knew the hiding spot of TC already….if the poem is linear he also had to chose a spot to begin. Or he made it a circle and same as end spot…I don’t see any logic in a patternless spray of points though. Just IMO.

    • I am of the strong opinion that where the chest is there is also a life-size Forrest Fenn dummy whom Forrest has affectionately named “I”.

      It is laying on top of the chest. Anyone passing by will think a person is just sleeping and will not disturb the dummy.

      This is why Forrest uses the word “dumb” a lot— like “I couldn’t get the dumb fire started.

      He can also easily say “I didn’t write the poem, I did” and make perfect sense (at least to himself).

      This strictly my opinion of course, and has no basis in fact.

        • mensan— except for the word Brown I don’t really get the connection. There are thousands of poems written like that–so I don’t think Robert Frost “wrote” the poem (so to speak).

          I guess what I’m saying is I think Fenn is the writer and the architect of his own poem.

          • Didn’t mean to sound so harsh in that post. The Frost poem may have had a lot to do with the poem– there are thousands of poems, but only one Robert Frost. I didn’t mean to make little of any poem he wrote.

    • Hi Heidini: for what it’s worth, I don’t think the chest is near either the blaze or WWWH, and my blaze and WWWH are definitely not the same thing. Good luck!

  21. We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. T. S. Eliott

    Didn’t Forrest repeat this quote?

    It like we make a loop?

    • Heidini,
      I don’t think he meant it in a physical sense when he used that quote. I think the poem actually has a circular aspect with the end being the same as the beginning. This of course is imo.
      I believe someone asked him during the Moby Dickens q&a if you switch back and end up where you started and I believe he said no. You can check it out for yourself with the link below. Sorry I don’t have a time stamp for where that question was asked.

      • IMHO he is using that quote to describe his thoughts about his boyhood adventures in Mt, just west of and around West Yellowstone. Now, is that where the chest lies…..

    • ..in ya onesie, on ya lap-top, watching TV in a warm comfy bed, ordering room-service, by chance?

      (that’s what I did too – it’s just so much easier than actually ‘searching’)

  22. Kedar’s Mom…

    Clump(s) of Aspen trees, what color do the leaves turn in fall?
    When does the weather cool down?
    Okay maybe some cottonwood trees also give brilliant color, but I’m not sure they are as popular for people who like to carve names, dates etc.

    Went to a popular Colorado trail this August, thought for sure we would find TC.

    When you zoom in Google Earth ( adjusted for fall) the golden leaves really stand out.

    A lot of people had carved their name on these trees, but one guy really stood out, sometime back in ’59 I think, he left his mark just about everywhere we looked that day

    Look up ‘Pando Aspen grove’ in utah for some more amazing facts about these beauties

        • mensan_fennsan…that’s fun to say, : )….I don’t think your reply answers my question about brave. I have a really good idea of why I have to be brave. Will it lead to title to the gold?…..I sure hope so.

          • Kedar’s Mom…maybe after you read the Robert Frost poem that Jonsey1 recently found you will gain a different view about FF and his BRAVE term. Seems like FF must have read it. Best of luck.

      • Hey Kedar’s mom,
        You didn’t happen to be around 1 of my spots, where you? Cortez, Durang or the Mesa Verda N.P. area’s.
        I love it out there. Absolutely beautiful…

        • Timothy,

          : )…..Unless you haven’t been to your site(s) since May, you’d know if I had been there. My orange hiking pole was the only evidence where I’ve been, besides footprints. Now I have it back so my adventures are totally secret. I bet the MV is amazing, there are many places I wish to see now. Grand Canyon, Yellowstone and more.

  23. “The poem speaks of waters, a creek, and a canyon. Pretty vague. Where do you start looking?” (altered paraphrase borrowed from ‘Last Crusade’).

    I find it interesting that FF answered a question with a line from an Indiana Jones movie “All I know are the facts, if you want the truth go next door to the psychology department.f”

    Makes me wonder if those movies in part inspired him to create his treasure hunt?

    Just my 2¢.


  24. I am exhausted… I propose that Dal & Goofy take a digital vacation during the week before Halloween… no posts could be added to the threads, posters could have a relaxed week to review and assimilate existing threads, and maybe even have an option to eliminate, or at least strike through any old posts of their own that they feel are not useful or are too redundant, or don’t enrich the discussion.

    • Is this going to be a paid vacation? Christmas is coming soon, and the better half has her eye on a dragon bracelet she saw on-line someplace.

    • Heidini— had never heard that before. Does it have anything but to do with the search for the chest, or did an aluminum grave market insult you recently?

          • Heidini: you might owe Joe a little apology — I think he was just trying to be a little humorous with the “rude” adjective for the aluminum grave marker. Isn’t it interesting that in Forrest’s context, rude and crude mean the same thing? In fact, the next time he describes it he does in fact use “crude”.

  25. Zaphod- perhaps there should be a sarcasm font or symbol. Misunderstandings happen often due to only being able to go off of one’s written text. Perhaps Joe was not being rude but crude!

    Joe sparrow: I apologize- a little…(sarcasm!) A wink can go a long way.

      • Heidini— Most of the time I’m the only one who thinks I’m funny. You’really right–there should be an emoticon for sarcasm. 🙂

    • Hi Heidini: I know how you feel on the excised emoticons. For some reason they rarely work for me here (usually getting converted into unrecognizable, illegible kanji-like symbols), so I settle for writing (wink) or (grins) instead whenever I think there’s a risk that my post’s tone will get misconstrued.

  26. Two other reasons that items and places referred to in poem may be only “temporary” (define it how you will):
    If HOB really is a house where “the Browns” live, is it likely that they or
    their descendants will still be there in hundreds of years?
    Geocachers are everywhere now, it seems. The SPOT is not that far
    off a road and the parking spot (put in) is nigh (near) to the SPOT. It’s
    not too improbable that someone might be in the wood roaming around
    merely to place a cache; the players would follow and who knows what
    they might accidentally discover?

    Probably ff had to place or make at least one, and possibly two markers
    in the wood to flag the chest location. I doubt that the SPOT came with
    a perfect pre-made marker. Just a guess. Maybe he hung a plastic
    bottle or jug of WATER HIGH in a tree (maybe 12 ft high?) just like you
    hang a bear bag? That would be “water high” near the chest aka
    “heavy loads”, and another marker to go with the blaze, yes?

    Either one might be found before the other I would think. He had to
    make the poem fit the SPOT. He had to work with the existing para-
    meters in his chosen area. He struggled for years to get the rhyme
    scheme and meter and everything just right, and maybe he used
    some poetic license to do it. He is a clever guy, after all.

    “Some things have to be believed to be seen.” Madeleine L’Engle

    If I were looking for the treasure and if I found myself in a wood
    that I hoped would be THE wood, I believe it would be wise to keep
    my two wide open eyes looking for a blaze and / or a water (jug)

    If I were to find the blaze I don’t think it would matter how “quickly”
    I looked down (1 second…10 seconds?) I would just know that
    the treasure was not up in the trees but “down” near the ground,
    on the ground, or maybe slightly underground somewhere nearby.

    Some clues are more important than others.

    Would a plastic water container and rope hoisting it high last for
    hundreds or thousands of years? Nope.

    Will a plastic jug full of water split open when it freezes? Nope.
    It’s recommended for maintaining freezer efficiency, actually

    To me, the poem is true; it is the truth.

    “Truth is eternal. Those who twist it are not, however, they
    work in shifts.” Unknown

    Twist it at your own risk.

  27. Interesting. I have quite by accident found at least a dozen geocaches within the last few years. Isn’t there a picture somewhere of FF holding a large stick suspended by wire ? As though to indicate that a similar stick or object may be hanging from a tree or rock outcropping or some such?

  28. One geocache was found in Cimarron Canyon last Spring, very close to a gravesite. The marble headstone/gravemarker was in an enticing meadow, somewhat close to the road. Decorated NM descanso style. Nearby the gravesite was a large hollow stump that naturally required investigation. Inside the stump was an ammo can, inside the ammo can the geoCache information and doodads. A Barbie for a cheap compass was the trade if I remember correctly. Sign the book and move on.

      • Joe, I know you asked Sandy but I I’ll jump in. There is a whole community of geocachers. Anyone can hide them or seek them. There is a website and an app. The hider posts the hide on the website and hides a container that holds a log and pencil and sometimes little odds and ends that you trade. Take one leave one kind of things. You find the geocache and sign the log and/or log the find on the website. There are literally thousands of these things. It’s kinda a fun thing to do but most of the time it’s really easy because you have the exact coordinates.
        It actually started from the armchair treasure hunting you alluded to with the search for the golden horse a while ago. I believe it all started with the search for the golden hare in England. People had so much fun they started hiding smaller caches for each other to find and it slowly evolved to just finding the hide and signing the log.

    • The Langoliers are coming!! Joe had not the patience to acquire the knowlege and wisdom to walk the not far, but too far two blocks. Thus, his warm waters halted at the turn-off. Without waters down the canyon the Brown, in a fit of brown, rifted the vortex! The Langoliers are coming!

      (mebbe Seeker could ‘splain it more lucidly?) 🙂

      • Easy peasy… Once upon a time there where three brown bears… Mickey , Donald, and Goo…er…I mean Pluto. They followed Reds directions to the the Ginger bread house, and met some gal with seven little one. With Pick axes and shovels they dug and dug, while Elmer Fudd laughs and laughs.

        Scene cuts to Bugs, smiling with his new gold tooth…

  29. I would like to revisit a topic that is addressed frequently, but often without reference to the original message exchange. Over two years ago (6/27/2014), the following question was posted on Mysterious Writings:

    “Is any specialized knowledge required to find the treasure? For instance, something learned during your time in the military, or from a lifetime of fly fishing? Or do you really expect any ordinary average person without your background to be able to correctly interpret the clues in the poem? ~mdavis19”

    Forrest replied, “No specialized knowledge is required mdavis19, and I have no expectations. My Thrill of the Chase book is enough to lead an average person to the treasure.f”

    People have seized on the “average person” words from Forrest’s reply and twisted them to conclude that Forrest has magically created a puzzle that average people are just as likely to figure out as above-average or gifted people. THAT is a lot of reading between the lines, and in any honest assessment is utterly unsupported by logic. So my question is: Would these same folks who are comforted by the idea that they have just as good a shot at solving the poem as a genius be as quick to admit that someone they consider to be below-average or perhaps even a dolt has an equally good chance as they do? I find this assumption to be utterly preposterous in both directions.

    • So what you are saying is that “average” is relative to the observer. Correct?

      Everyone thinks they are at least average. So Forrest’s version of average may actually be well above the universal norm since he is an observer from the opposite side of the game.

      Help me out. Is that what you are trying to say?

      Scott W.

      • Good one. 🙂

        Let’s expand on this whole thing. Who is the average person in the context of Fenn’s statement?

        The collective group would be those who read books such as those that Fenn publishes. We just culled the herd with that statement.

        That leads us to ask who is “average” of those that bought and read his book. Surely, most everyone who reads such material is already above average.

        So, back to my original comment. “Average” is relative to the observer.

        Scott W.

    • Hi q1werty2:

      “So what you are saying is that “average” is relative to the observer. Correct?”

      Yes, but it’s more than that. In this case, “average” probably depends more on who Forrest considers to be the audience for his challenge. That already biases the IQ above 100 since a prerequisite for solving the poem certainly requires an ability to read it.

      “Everyone thinks they are at least average.”

      Yes: and half of them are wrong by definition!

      “So Forrest’s version of average may actually be well above the universal norm since he is an observer from the opposite side of the game.”

      There is no doubt that he is biased on that assessment.

      “Help me out. Is that what you are trying to say?”

      Actually, no. What I was getting at is that in general it is not possible to design a problem that is easier for intellectually-challenged people to solve than it is for average people, and so by extension it is illogical to assume that a problem that an average person can solve will be as hard (or harder!) for a bright person to solve. In other words, Forrest never said that the average person could solve it as quickly as a gifted person. He only implied that there was nothing so difficult about the solution that given enough time the average person could figure it out.

      Where an average person has an advantage, then, is in persistence. This happens a lot with entrepreneurs: many are not college graduates, but they more than make up for it with drive and steadfastness. The committed, average Fennian who spends 8+ hours a day, week after week, chipping away at the poem can thus still compete with the comparatively few geniuses that are working on it but only spending a few hours a week.

    • Well Zap some of the dumbest people I’ve ever met have a PhD behind their name. And don’t get me started on the idiots we are graduating from college these days that don’t have the good sense God gave a rock and fall apart faster than a buttermilk biscuit out in the real world away from their safe spaces. So the best I can tell we are heading downhill fast as far as average intelligence is concerned.

      I have noticed the chase seems to attract highly intelligent (at least they think they are), over emotional folks with really big egos…… Who couldn’t find a barn with both hands. Of course I’m not one of “those”.

      Back to your question; average intelligence is directly proportional to the depth of the average hole. DUHHHHH!

      • Hi Goofy!

        “Well Zap some of the dumbest people I’ve ever met have a PhD behind their name.”

        The (not so?) inside secret is that it stands for Piled Higher and Deeper. There is a penalty for spending too much time in university and not enough in the real world of Street Smarts 101.

        “And don’t get me started on the idiots we are graduating from college these days that don’t have the good sense God gave a rock and fall apart faster than a buttermilk biscuit out in the real world away from their safe spaces. So the best I can tell we are heading downhill fast as far as average intelligence is concerned.”

        A problem that underlies seemingly everything these days is that people lack critical thinking skills. Many blindly believe whatever they’re told; or unreservedly disbelieve it based on the messenger. Most people I encounter are not much brighter than a box of rocks when it comes to science, math, physics, history, geography or pretty much any subject that doesn’t involve the Housewives of Beverly Hills/Atlanta/Orange County, The Voice, Dancing with the Stars (a nod to poor Forrest there) or whatever is the latest reality TV show of the day.

        “I have noticed the chase seems to attract highly intelligent (at least they think they are), over emotional folks with really big egos…… Who couldn’t find a barn with both hands. Of course I’m not one of “those”.”

        My dear Goofy — you are the exception that proves the rule!

    • zaphod … just a quick response here. You asked about “specialized knowledge”; then you changed the subject to ask about an “average” person. That was followed by poster responses about what is meant by the word “average”.

      Why quibble about semantics? I think your original question was a good one, a question that FF answered: “No specialized knowledge is required”, a clear, uncomplicated statement.

      To me, debating the word “average” is an academic exercise of minimal importance to finding the chest. However, knowing that I don’t need to prowl the library looking in dusty old books for arcane information is a great help to me. Maybe not for other searchers; I dunno.

      Ken (in Texas) 🙂

  30. After 5 and 1/2 years on this and numerous searches I found a alligator on the other side of the river was now trying to figure out if this was a clue or not .seems to all ball up in a big fog in my brain

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