The Poem…Part Six

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This page is for discussion of Forrest’s poem. Please use it for only that discussion.

Here is Forrest reading his poem, The Thrill of the Chase. If you have not memorized the poem…don’t be concerned…neither has Forrest apparently…
http://dalneitzel.com/video/audio/poem.mp3

 

126 thoughts on “The Poem…Part Six

  1. Perhaps Mr. Fenn didn’t write the poem. He just wrote it down….therefore, he wrote the poem. Could I be as bold to suggest it’s anothers words put to pen by Mr.Fenn? ( The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, etc. )

      • I do not feel this is the case. I know any one of us can have quite similar thoughts or words, but doesn’t mean they came from someone else. Hope I was able to explain my thoughts correctly.

        • Plagiarism covers things that have been previously printed, not the spoken word. There is no attorney or cleric privilege in this case so it is theoretically possible that someone besides Mr. Fenn dictated the words. No different than a reporter or court clerk typing out a speech verbatim.

          • I’ll elaborate. It has always been my contention that Mr. Fenn didn’t do this alone. Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead. Two CAN keep a secret….they’ve been keeping it for many years. Pious indulgence.

          • Your thoughts are his poem are someone else’s words, but he wrote them down as his own? How does this explain how he said he chose his words wisely (paraphrasing)? Perhaps I’m misunderstanding what you are saying.

        • I’m pretty sure he wrote the poem himself. Remember: he hid the treasure, Then wrote the
          poem. Not the other way around.
          I don’t think he robbed someone elses words or had any help.
          I wrote a poem in the 4th grade. It’s not that complicated 🙂

          • Or it could be a place he had never been to until he actually hid the treasure.
            From “Forrest Gets Mail From a Middle School Class”:
            Q: When was the first time you went to the place where you hid the treasure?
            A: I don’t want to answer that question. It is more of a clue than I want to give.
            If the actual EXACT spot was never visited until he actually hid the TC and the area (wilderness, state, etc) is his favorite place in the world, then that would explain him never being there until actually hiding it. If he had actually visited that EXACT spot when he was young, what would have been the harm with him saying that he went there or found the spot many, many years ago?

        • ok pdenver, then please explain to me at least what f meant by “I could have wrote the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t.”
          Forrest has claimed numerous time and again that he put 15 years into this poem. That’s not what that statement is saying.
          Timothy…IMHO

          • To defend pdenver somewhat, I do believe they are possibly on to something. Fenn has stated that two can keep a secret is one of them is dead. And if we are to believe Tom Terrific (which I personally have no reason to doubt) when he stated, “…..Forrest told them “His father would know where he hid the treasure.”,” then I believe it may be his own father that Forrest is referring to. Perhaps it was his own father who had the idea of where and how to hide the TC. I do believe that Forrest did write the poem in his own words that took him 15 years to twist and turn. But wasn’t Forrest also disappointed at how little is remembered of his father? Maybe this is Forrest’s way of drawing attention to Marvin. And maybe most of us have been looking and trying to find out as much as we can about the wrong person. Who exactly was Marvin Fenn and what did he do and what did he possibly write?
            “As I have gone alone in there….”
            Is the “I” Marvin who went alone into his grave?
            Just a little different line of thought…..

          • Thank you, KP. I didn’t realize other comments had been made until your post.

            Hello Timothy. The quote, ‘I could have wrote the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t.,’ has been a little bit of a mystery to me. As I sit here and think about it, I tend to believe what he has always said in the past; that he knew where he wanted to place the treasure chest (paraphrasing). He’s been there before.

          • (Second try.) ‘ “I could have wrote the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t.” ‘ We’ve heard him state that he’s always known where to hide the treasure chest. This quote may be to say just that. He could have written the poem first, because he knew of the place, because he’s already been there. Hope this makes sense.

          • In my original post that didn’t go through, I tried commenting how that particular quote was a bit confusing to me. Did he hide the treasure chest, and then write the poem? Not sure. I thought I’ve read that his friends had seen it a month(s) before the book was published. Perhaps someone will correct me if I’m wrong.

          • Or it could be a place he had never been to until he actually hid the treasure.
            From “Forrest Gets Mail From a Middle School Class”:
            Q: When was the first time you went to the place where you hid the treasure?
            A: I don’t want to answer that question. It is more of a clue than I want to give.
            If the actual EXACT spot was never visited until he actually hid the TC and the area (wilderness, state, etc) is his favorite place in the world, then that would explain him never being there until actually hiding it. If he had actually visited that EXACT spot when he was young, what would have been the harm with him saying that he went there or found the spot many, many years ago?

          • Hi KP/Kevin!

            I agree with your line of thinking about not needing to doubt what Tom Terrific said, and that Forrest was referring to his own father as someone who would know the treasure location. However, I don’t think you need to do any further research into information about Marvin Fenn other than what Forrest writes about him already in “Thrill of the Chase” (Forrest also gave us a heads up at the end of TOTC that trying to find information about his father on the internet is a somewhat fruitless effort).

            I also don’t believe that going down this rabbit hole is a good direction to start off with if you haven’t already gotten a good solve based on the poem, IMO.

          • Kevin: ‘Or it could be a place he had never been to until he actually hid the treasure.’

            Mr. Fenn during Moby Dickens book signing: ‘I decided I knew where I was going to hide the chest.’

          • Kevin, in regards to the example you gave between the children in school and Mr. Fenn’s response, I’d like to offer a thought to you. If he had responded that the first time he had gone to this place, he was a young child, or a teenager, where would you start looking? Wouldn’t that be too much of a clue?

  2. I like the part about two can keep a secret if one is dead… I’ve often thought, someone else knows his spot…. but they are all dead.

    So its his secret.

    Its his poem. he wouldn’t be so possessive if he didn’t write it. ‘Don’t mess with my poem.’

    He likely reads it on video, so as not to add any unwanted inflection, or make an embarrassing mistake. And… if you watch him read it, it looks to me like he is hardly looking at the words, its just something to focus on. IMO

    • I’m pretty sure his dad and probably the rest of the family knew about the secret spot. I believe it was one of the places they used to hide their fishing gear.

  3. Kedar’s mom–

    Actually, it’s “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze”. When referring to being brave it is present tense: “If you ARE brave and in the wood”.

      • Oh, I see what you’re saying. He does say “if you’ve been brave”—but the printed poem (in many different locations) has it in present tense. So it’s clear that we know the answer—I mean, answers. 🙂

    • Hey kadar’s mom
      That’s because in that statement the person who found the TC has not left the location yet. As a builder the word “wood” changes it’s meaning from the word “woods” meaning the original wood ia a finished piece of wood not a tree.
      Just something to think about
      Timothy…IMHO

    • Hey kadar’s mom
      That’s because in that statement the person who found the TC has not left the location yet. As a builder the word “wood” changes it’s meaning from the word “woods” meaning the original wood is a finished piece of wood not a tree.
      Just something to think about
      Timothy…IMHO

    • This is part of my premise that the poem should not be “messed” with. “Straight forward”… “….I wasn’t playing any games…” is less ambiguous than “Don’t mess with my poem” if taken in context with how these statements were offered. To me…they are both synonymous. It is understood that many writers and poets often hid messages in their works for various reasons. I cannot recall ever being instructed to read them other than presented. In Fenn’s case his poem is a map with nine clues that leads to a treasure…and the reader is challenged to decipher his meaning from beginning to end.
      I have never started reading a book in another place other than the beginning…nor has it occurred to me to do that with a poem. When reading either…poem or book…I want to get the full story or meaning without corrupting it before I even start. Perhaps Fenn has introduced the Chase to promote an alternative procedure to reading and understanding the mysteries of script and prose ? The ills that plague society are already out of skew…I don’t think Fenn wants to add to that. Just another searcher that wants to figure this out…without making it my story.

      • Ken,
        You never read a story that started at the end [of the story], and worked it’s way back though the plot and finished where the story started, at the end?

        It’s not about “starting to read” the poem from stanza 5 or 6 or 2…
        You’re only looking at the technical aspect of reading English. But ya might be missing the imagination aspect. Which is one aspect of poems, the need to be interpreted.

        It’s about, after reading the poem from top to bottom and left to right… one might see that the beginning of the first word, in the first line, of the first stanza, might not be where it all begins. Nor does “Begin it where” must be in present tense. It could be just another way of saying ‘once upon a time’

        It changes nothing within the poem, no words, phrases, lines, and yes, no stanzas or format changes. It only changes the understand of how the story, or in this case the poem, is understood.

        In this case…
        Knowledge; knowing how to read.
        Poem; imagination, interpretation.

        • Seeker…you and I could go on and on until the cows fell over. My above comment was not about the stories/poems I have read…nor the reasons why/or how I dissected them to learn the meaning. It was about the basic fundamentals of first reading something correctly in order. Your attempts to blow holes in my theory sheds light on the problem at hand. Everyone interprets things differently…and that is just how life is. My opinion is that you have skipped over some basic steps and headed right to the operating room…just don’t take the leg off because you have a headache.
          I say…my opinion…read the poem in order and understand that first…
          You can say whatever you want …but don’t imply that I do not know how to read just because my method doesn’t jive with your…”Its about…” or Knowledge; knowing how to read etc.
          Carry on…and have a wonderful day Seeker…maybe Loco is right…too much line out .

          • Ok, maybe this will help… because, all this is, is a discussion of different opinions, and I’m not sure if I’m getting my point out as clear as I like it to be…

            Look at it this way;
            We are given a list of materials. {stanza 1 2 3 4} But we don’t know where to ‘start’ to place the first piece {clue} or even why it needs to be where it supposed to go.

            Stanza 5, gives a question that has been ‘answered’.. the summation of where to start with the pieces, and why.

            Now we have a ‘starting point’ to Begin with the correct first piece…

            I think the main problem has been, imo, we are thinking the first “clue” is the starting point. But it might be only the first piece of all the piece. The starting point tells us where to put the pieces together.

            No guessing, no dart tossing… no messing with the poem. Simply a possibility of analyzing what we have.

          • Seeker…I understand perfectly what you are trying to say. I just do not see it that way. That methodology implies that stanza five has been deciphered (gives a question that has been answered…the summation of where to start with the pieces, and why.). Really? Are you certain of that? Last I knew… no searchers have made it that far.
            I will say again…I believe that the first clue is in the first stanza and that without that…there is very little chance that anyone will knowingly make it past the first two or three clues.
            If you don’t have the first clue nailed down…
            My “Army men” just complained about not being fed and they have sand in their eyes…gotta go!

  4. If “You’ve been” brave and in the wood I give u title to the gold. Well Forrest I have been Brave.
    Now I need that gold. 😉 $$$$$$$ lol ha ha.
    I will read it next time. Ha ha ha love it.

  5. I don’t think past or present tense on ‘brave’ has any bearing on the solve.
    Whenever Forrest reads the poem he pronounces ‘tarry’ as ‘ta-rē’ as in ‘to stay somewhere’ rather than ‘tärē’ which is ‘of, like, or covered with tar.’

  6. A question about the two mistakes in the old poem that was on Forrest’s website (link below).

    The two mistakes are:
    1. In line 2 (Stanza 1) it was “tresures” instead of “treasures”
    2. In line 19 (Stanza 5) it was “answer” instead of “answers”

    Forrest has said (not in these exact words) that answer(s) was a spelling mistake, pick whatever you want, the poem can be solved with either.

    My question is, did he ever explain the “tresures” difference? I cannot seem to find it anywhere. Could this “mistake” reveal that by “treasures bold” the meaning is “tressures bold”?

    tressure =
    * an ornamental enclosure containing a figure or distinctive device, formerly found on various gold and silver coins.
    * a narrow inner border on a shield, usually decorated with fleurs-de-lys. * Middle English tressour, from tressour, tressure band for the hair, headdress, from Middle French tresseor, tressure, from tresser to tress + -or, -ure

    It might also be a coincidence that the missing S if it is “tressures” was was added to “answer” by mistake. Either way, my question is did Forrest ever explain why his website used the word “tresures” in the poem?

    Note: Please do not think that in any way I am saying Forrest was misleading. I do not think he would do that, however “tressure” sounds a lot like “treasure” and “tresure”, maybe he fixed it so it is clear what he meant, or maybe because it can too easily be associated with “tressure”?

  7. @curioushobbit….no need to worry about copying…not with this sort of Spud at least…;)

    Rites

    A church and a wedding
    May be good,
    But first there was incense
    Of cedar wood.

    Instead of candles,
    Remember the fire
    In the hills, with the wind
    As your choir.

    You may answer the question
    “Do you take…?”
    But the holiest font
    Is a mountain lake.

    The sacred hills
    Are higher than churches,
    And they have steeples
    Of silver birches.

  8. This page is a ghost town. Lots of those in Wyoming. Anyways, here’s the poem without the lines containing ‘I’ ‘You’ ‘Your’ ‘Me’ and other similar words including ‘Brown’ because its capitalized and at the end of a phrase:
    And hint of riches new and old.
    Begin it where warm waters halt
    And take it in the canyon down,
    Not far, but too far to walk.
    From there it’s no place for the meek,
    The end is ever drawing nigh;
    Just heavy loads and water high.
    But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
    Just take the chest and go in peace.

    Notice how there are only nine lines left.

    • Jack,
      I have thought about this in a similar way & may have something there but I wouldn’t exclude PIBTHOB. I’m not sure why you grouped this with ‘I’ ‘You’ ‘Your’ ‘Me’.

      I have noticed that the only stanzas he mentions I – I’ve – I’m – Me or My are the 1st – 5th & 6th stanzas.

      So maybe stanzas 2 – 3 & 4 are about you.

  9. This page is a ghost town. Lots of those in Wyoming. Anyways, here’s the poem without the lines containing ‘I’ ‘You’ ‘Your’ ‘Me’ and other similar words including ‘Brown’ because its capitalized and at the end of a phrase:
    And hint of riches new and old.
    Begin it where warm waters halt
    And take it in the canyon down,
    Not far, but too far to walk.
    From there it’s no place for the meek,
    The end is ever drawing nigh;
    Just heavy loads and water high.
    But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
    Just take the chest and go in peace.

    Notice how there are only nine lines left.

      • I am usually 2 steps ahead of people. I just dont know how Forrest does it. He is always 3 steps ahead. As they say, it takes one to know one.

      • Jonsey1, have you seen the movie Wild Bill 1995 Jeff Bridges. The very last part of the movie made me laugh. Just as Wild Bill gets shot with Aces and Eights. The camera pans to a deck of cards. The cards label is Brown Fox Playing Cards….. It was a good movie.

  10. As I have gone alone in there…
    So why is it that I must go…

    I find it slightly odd the way stanza 1 & 5 start. In stanza 1, you would think the wording would flow better with… As I’ve gone alone in there, not unlike in stanza 5 ‘I’ve done it tired…’
    Also, wouldn’t stanza’s 5 first line read as ‘So why is it I must go…'[ dropping the “that” ]. If both stanzas relate fully to the same person? [ I’m not looking/considering proper grammar, just curious to the reasoning of presentation ].

    Are these slightly different worded lines meant have a reason or subtle way of saying, they are not one in the same person?

    Other quirts are; treasure to trove, as well as, stanza 5 is a form of a question with an answer[s] and stanza 1 talks of hints. Yet, another thought is; why not place stanza 5 at the end of the poem? Imo, stanza 6 would more likely read better/efficient after stanza 4, as it seems to be instructing us about the poem, and not so much an ending… with the question [ stanza 5 ] following it all up or finalizing the poem. I mean by now [ this far in the poem ], the reader is supposed to understand fenn has already gone, right?

    So, If fenn has gone alone in there and with the “treasure”… why tell us he’s leaving again, and with his “trove”? Seems a bit redundant, right? Why the subtle differences in the words chosen?
    Of course we do have hints of riches vs. answers [ “I’ve” done it tired, and now “I’m” weak ] to consider when reading these stanzas as well.

    The point to this; Do we understand these three stanzas as well as we should, or are they just [ like some proclaim ] simply meant as an intro to the poem and the poem’s ending?

    • Treasure vs. trove may be an artistic expression. Not having to use the same word repeatedly, but having the same meaning. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

      • Artistic expression is always great in a poem… but there are two different meanings of treasure and trove, as well as their placement within the poem. This particular poem contains information to a million plus in gold and stones. Are these words simply written off as artistic expression? Many seem to be writing off a lot of words in this poem…
        “The poem in my book is something that I changed over and over again. When you read the poem it looks like just simple words there. But I guarantee you that I worked on that. I felt like an architect drawing that poem.”

        • Each have their importance, along with artistic expression. It will be difficult, but not impossible (paraphrasing).

    • I think f masked the ultra important beginning point in a seemingly vague first stanza. Then, he additionally masked that by having two stanzas at the end that don’t contain clues. He could have been counting on many to be focusing on the end stuff and skip over the beginning…which is how things have played out and f has commented about after the fact.

      • Fundamental ~ ” Then, he additionally masked that by having two stanzas at the end that don’t contain clues.”

        I guess that is one way of looking at it. Three stanzas just to screw with our heads… kinda a waste of 1/2 a poem.
        The again, if deliberate, it would make the poem even more difficult. But, that sounds like red herrings to me… 1/2 the poem not containing any clues, simply there to mask the real clues… If I’m reading your comment correctly.

        • Seeker, the last two stanzas may be to confirm what has already been done in the previous stanzas.
          ‘So why is it that I must go
          And leave my trove for all to seek?
          The answers I already know,
          I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.’

          This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

          • I get PD, and a lot of searchers seem to think the same. I just wondering if there are others that see it different…
            I’m also looking for that “…one important possibility related to the winning solve.”

  11. Starting with the poem, it references by title his two books, TTOTC and TFTW. Each of those books in turn references by title other books. I conjectured that if f “liked” the book I should read it. But if f didn’t like the book I could ignore it. Two of the books he liked and I subsequently found useful were Flywater and Journal of a Trapper. I’m not selling books just sayin they contain information helpful to the searcher. Again it’s all my opinion.

  12. As odd as it might sound, the word “the” from the poem is one of the most important hints in the Chase. It’s definitely in the top three! If you don’t believe me, don’t forget who won the Top Gun trophy. As always it’s my opinion. Best of luck figuring out why. 🙂

  13. “there are a few words in my poem that are not useful”
    Why do you people keep trying to make literal sense out of the poem and the grammar and the tense, and the order of presentation, when he seems to be stating that most of the words were selected for different reasons than the obvious ones.
    Study the word selection and try to figure out why he used treasures, trove, riches, chest, when they all basically seem to mean the same thing. Why are there so many y’s, I’s, ands, an it’s.

  14. Peace => Piece => Scrap
    Title => Book
    Peace + Title => Scrapbook

    So do you still think there are no hints in the scrapbooks?

    Treasure => Thesaurus

    • Dal’s site, is the only personal blog that has SB’s { started after the release of the book}. The first SB was dated Feb 2013, 3 years after the release of the book/poem/challenge. The words you equate from the poem to SB’s could have been written into the poem as much as 20 years prior to the thought of a SB… on a personal web page, by a searcher.
      How in the world can you logically believe that those “words from the poem” have any kind of connection / information related to Scrapbooks, and the reasoning you think SB’s hold hint?
      That’s one heck of a fortune cook ya got there.

      Just blurting out my thought as well…

  15. Here is how f tells you the significance of his Q&A. It is built solely from things found in the poem.

    quest + yon + and + answers + with + Forrest Fenn

    Just FYI.

  16. You will need your thesaurus to see this one, but f just might have thought of everything …. even planned Weekly Words to be part of the Chase. I’m not certain but it’s starting to look that way. Or it could just be a coincidence? You decide.

    weak => Week
    quickly => ly
    put => Words

    • Weekly Word is the creation of the Blogs Owner…{fanatic web site I might add} fenn only agreed to participate. Not unlike;
      Six questions with…
      Random words
      Feature questions

      No deciding needed… that was done for us.
      Mr. Thesaurus, what color is the sky in your world?

  17. Hi all. I am not an active searcher or anything, but have been lurking on here for a while and enjoy seeing everyone’s thoughts on the treasure. One thing I keep coming back to in my own thoughts, is that the poem seems very similar to the story River Bathing is Best on oldsantafetradingco.com. Forrest said that he used to ride his bike to Ojo Caliente as a kid, and it seems like the poem could follow his ride there on a map. They also use some of the same words. Below is the poem with some of my thoughts in parentheses to show the similarities that stick out to me. Anyway, these are just my thoughts and good luck to all of you searchers:
    ————————————————————————————————–
    As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold,

    (In the past, to his secret bathing spot
    In the present to hide the treasure
    ff – I’d ride my bike into Yellowstone Park)

    I can keep my secret where,
    And hint of riches new and old.

    (Both the poem and the story use the word secret:
    ff – My secret bathing spot – where the hot water tumbled into the stream)

    Begin it where warm waters halt

    (Hot water from geothermal features first enters the river in the Upper Geyser Basin.  In 30 miles, the Firehole River warms almost 30 degrees.  This warm water temperature facilitates year-round insect activity and trout growth. 
    Also Dal’s WWWH being at Madison Junction:
    There are two rivers in Yellowstone that are known to be very warm. They are warm and yet they are great trout fishing streams. Rivers that Forrest and his dad both fished extensively..and often took clients too, the Gibbon and the Firehole.
    So perhaps you see my interest in this place where the Firehole and the Gibbon end as not only a unique place..but also likely to be the place Forrest intends us to “Begin it..” in his poem.)

    And take it in the canyon down,

    (Down on a map through Firehole Canyon)

    Not far, but too far to walk.

    (According to Google earth, it is about 5 miles from Madison Junction to Fountain Flats Drive. Also, ff rode his bike there and has made other comments about bikes:
    ff – I’d ride my bike into Yellowstone Park to a spot about twenty miles from town where a seldom-used dirt road turned right off the main drag.)

    Put in below the home of Brown.

    (Turn right on Fountain Flats Drive,below the Nez Perce creek:
    ff – where a seldom-used dirt road turned right off the main drag.

    Put in can also mean stop ex – if a ship puts in, it stops at a port

    In 1890 brown trout were introduced into Nez Perce creek a Firehole tributary and in the 1920s, rainbow trout were introduced into the river. Today, the falls still block upstream migrations of spawning trout from the Madison River, but the upper Firehole has become a world class trout fishery because of these introductions )

    From there it’s no place for the meek,

    (Getting out of your car and walking maybe, or because it is bear country. Or from the story:
    ff – It was a wonderfully uncivilized pleasure in a remote area where nothing could interrupt the purity of my naked solitude.)

    The end is ever drawing nigh;

    (The end of Fountain Flats Drive:
    ff – They also closed that little road to all vehicles
    ff – Several years ago, with my daughter Kelly’s family, my wife and I drove to the little road (It’s paved now) and walked to the river)

    There’ll be no paddle up your creek,

    (Don’t go in the water)

    Just heavy loads

    (Fountain Freight Road trail at the end of Fountain Flats Dr)

    and water high.

    (Water high = the river:
    Forrest Gets Mail…
    Forrest responds- What is wrong with me just riding my bike out there and throwing it in the “water high” when I am through with it?
    Implies it is something big enough to throw a bike into, like a pond, lake, or river)

    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,

    (At this point, you are at the river, which could be the blaze:
    The firehole river, named b/c ppl thought the steam was a fire:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firehole_River
    The river was named by early trappers for the steam that makes it appear to be smoking as if on fire.[2]

    Or it could be something else in the area)

    Look quickly down, your quest to cease,

    (Somewhere around where the trail meets the river. )

    But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
    Just take the chest and go in peace.

    So why is it that I must go
    And leave my trove for all to seek?
    The answers I already know,

    (ff – That spot, which was so important to me sixty-six years ago, is mostly overlooked now by the occasional passerby. My memories of those experiences are so dear to me that I hope in time all of my grandchildren will follow my footprints to that special place.)

    I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

    So hear me all and listen good,
    Your effort will be worth the cold.

    (On effort –
    ff – I made that bike ride more than a few times, even though it was somewhat arduous to pedal that far at only one manpower. But it was always worth the effort.

    ff -*Victory will always justify the effort. (Posted October 21st, 2016)

    On cold –
    ff – Sometimes, when Kelly curls her long blond hair through her fingers in the sunlight, I am reminded of those long water grasses gently weaving and twisting in the river. Winters are cold for those without such memories.

    ff – *Plan a warm place into which you can retreat. Merry Christmas (Posted Dec. 25th, 2015) )

    If you are brave and in the wood
    I give you title to the gold.

  18. You know, stanza five is kind of interesting:

    “So why is it that I must go
    And leave my trove for all to seek.
    The answer(s) I already know
    I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak”

    Go and know, seek and weak, rhyme, but are spelled differently. When meek is used it is rhymed with creek— but here it’s seek and weak. And go and know– and actually so, go, and know all rhyme.

    I find it to be a bit intriguing.

  19. Seeker. Let’s play!!!! 🙂

    Fenn has said, “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them.”

    Also, very recently, he said “”Every word is placed in there strategically, and you can’t ignore any of the nouns in that poem. f”

    Based upon the latest statement, it would appear that the “nouns” form the nucleus of the Poem.(nucleus: the central and most important part of an object, movement, or group, forming the basis for its activity and growth.)

    Have not the meanings of the nouns constituted the larger measure of discussions involving understanding/solving the clues? The nouns are strategically placed and form the basis for the Poem.

    The Huntsetter has unequivocally stated that we cannot ignore any of the nouns in the Poem!!

    My question to you would be, how can anyone now ignore any of the nouns and have any hope of solving the clues? It now appears that all six stanzas ‘must’ be incorporated into the solution? (it can’t be based solely on stanzas 2,3, & 4)

    So, where to begin?? :)

    • I agree, Loco.
      Another comment { paraphrasing } seems to work with the above comments as well… All the word were deliberately placed {close enough for this conversation}. And, He looked up words and definitions of words… and rebooted.

      So, lol, you ask where to begin?!
      Here’s a though I have been brewing over for some time now… The question in the poem was completely deliberate, no filler, no add on, no structure of the poem, and recently fenn stated about a riddle with-in the poem.
      I’ll add, ‘know where to start,’ and ‘need to start at the beginning’

      So imo, to be honest… we need to { for lack of a better term } solve the Q&A in the poem to know where we need to go.
      This might mean stanza 6 as instructions and now stanza 1 to hint at something important = [ possibility ] and still leaves stanza 2 3 4 as directions needed to be followed by the instruction given in the other stanzas that lead to the chest.
      The idea here is a clue gets you closer. But, a clue might be only pieces of the direction, and the poem ~ overall, as a blueprint or instruction.

      This leaves the clues in consecutive order, contiguous and the poem having All the information to “find” the treasure. IF we read the poem as intended.

      That’s my take ~ overall, anyways.
      So I kinda agree with that attitude of 561234, for the reasons above.

      With that said, the “nouns” should be important throughout the poem. However, I’m open for debate on another theory if you want to. Because it seems to be down ~ to the right “strategy” { opposite of Tomfoolery. which I think you’ll agree with } in understanding the poem, and forget about the dart set.

      • Thanks seeker,

        At present, based on known statements, the only other method, utilizing the entire Poem, would be the one I mentioned to you several years ago.

        But yeah, I was definitely leaning towards 561234, even before the ‘nouns’. I am working with that alone…..but, if I can find another possibility, I’ll throw it at ya!! 🙂

      • Seeker;

        I have long thought that the basic architecture of the poem was a circle. That being the case, starting anywhere – stanza 5 or six or where ever is possible. To start at the question – “So why is it that I must go…” could make a lot of sense.

        My problem comes in connecting
        “If you are brave and in the wood
        I give you title to the gold.”

        and

        ” As I have gone alone in there
        And with my treasures bold,
        I can keep my secret where,
        And hint of riches new and old.”

        “I give you title to the gold” seems to imply the “END” of the search, only to then start it over???

        YES, it IS a circle, but how to make the connection?

        I can connect “In the wood” and “In there” fairly easily, but “Give you title” to “” As I have gone alone in there” is a bit rough for me. Care to help me out a bit as to how you make the connection Seeker? Just Askin’ JDA

        • My only answer… opinion in this line of thinking is… what you listed might not be “clues” as much as “instruction” to understand the clues references.

          I’m as lost as everyone else { whether they want to admit it or not }… I’m just not stuck spinning my wheels in the mud like most.

          • Ah Seeker…I too am lost…but have much enthusiasm for the Quest for answers. The heck with the dang shiny stuff…I want freakin’ answers man.
            There….that’s better. You know my posit on reading the poem out of order…but I do agree that 561234 has a twang to it. I have been able to see some continuity there. I still prefer keeping it simple and reading the poem 1-6 as I have found a good lead in from stanza 1. I think it may be that important thingy.
            The Tomfoolery method is for those who are impatient and need instant failure.

          • Seeker, it’s good to know that you are
            (merely) lost, and not stuck spinning
            your wheels. Carry on.

  20. And yep, if one is just entertaining one’s self, it ain’t tomfoolery. But, it’s not something a ‘serious’ searcher would employ! 🙂

    • Lets take it a step further…
      If we imply direction as the ingredients needed, we still might need instructions to put it all together. Even if the ingredients are listed, such as for a cake; Eggs-flour-sugar etc.
      The instruction; tell us how to do it all… mix-bake-temp. etc.

      Is the poem doing this? Can the poem contain All the information needed, including how it should be executed / understood. The only thing we have, in the most simplest of thoughts is, “begin it where warm waters halt and…” But as fenn stated there are many wwh in the RM’s, and recently said there are billions of blazes… are there not just as many canyons or creeks or heavy loads and water high?

      If so, and it seems to be, imo… then the poem itself must tell us where, the correct ingredients are to be located, and also tell us how to use them. {whether that be stomping out or viewing all or aliening them or waiting for an natural event, or bugs bunny to hop out of his hole and yell, ya found me, etc. etc.
      That is what a blueprint does, right? It show how to put it all together. Otherwise, all we really have is a list of ingredients / materials… Is this the wise part fenn relates to the poem, and “found” the blaze… Knowing where to start and how it all works as one…

      There is another thought, but many don’t like to think about, and it falls into the instruction part of the theory… out of all the many wwh, canyon… the correct ones are below hoB, and that is how we are certain beforehand { out of all the possible choices } and if we knew what hoB is we go right to the chest… or that… knowing where to begin / start line of thinking. And maybe why searcher indicated the first “two” clues but didn’t know it or understand where they were.

      So why is it…? the place of hoB… tired and weak?

      Like I said before… I’m looking for that “important possibility” for winning the prize. That too must be ‘in’ the poem…in my mind.

    • Oz,

      Maybe, but — I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak…So hear me all and listen good… Your effort will be worth the cold — could also possibly answer it.

      It’s been stated that all the information is in the poem.

      I’ve never understood how anyone becomes fixated on: the clues are bound by each sentence or that they must be bound somehow by stanza ( example: one or two clues per stanza)

      Who says the information cannot cross the ‘border’, between stanzas as long as the clues stay consecutive???
      Or, that the ‘information’ is even bound by punctuation, maybe it is line-by-line??

      • Loco/Seeker,
        I was thinking about this from what you were posting here on this thread. The same way it is easy to ignore the first stanza as ‘filler’ or ff journey into the hidey spot, just the same we do with stanzas 5 and 6. And like you said if the information is in the poem then the answer to that question should be there too. Answering that question should be essential.

        Why did he leave the treasure for all to seek? Is it because he is tired and weak of finding treasures himself and now he wants -others- to find his? Yes, that is the understanding at face value.

        The second layer, imo, is that there is some instruction here to find the clues. The trove is the 9 clues within the poem and he asks: why did I leave these clues here for all to find? He knows the answers (or how the clues are hidden) He has done it -tired- (not physically exhausted) but repeatedly (over and over), meaning the masking of the clues. The next phrase should be something important -and now I’m weak- like he wants to reveal the method next but that is as far as I went. Does it make sense?

        • Oz10, I followed you right up to the weak part, then ya lost me… are you using weak as in information given, but not enough information?

          I think there’s much more to it, and as Loco stated, it might come from the next pieces of information in the poem… But…lol.. I fell off your train of thought on weak… help me out, cuz i’m always will to look at it from all views. { well, most views.}

          • Seeker, ‘as far as I went’, I was referring to myself. In other words, I can’t make the connection with that last phrase (and now I’m weak.)

            I do have something with the first 2 lines of stanza 6 that will carry forward in the same line of thinking.

            So hear me all and listen good- in here I think he is saying ‘hear this but understand that’ or ‘ when you hear this, replace it with that’.

            Your effort will be worth the cold- Why is effort needed? because you need to do what the previous line says (hear this and change it for that) maybe start over or loop around with the new understanding. Makes sense?

      • Loco~ “Who says the information cannot cross the ‘border’, between stanzas as long as the clues stay consecutive?”

        With that thought in mind… who says the clues are needed to be seen { Physical Viewing } in that order?
        IF we seem to end up at HLAWH, are we to look back at this point?
        I have to agree with Goofy on one aspect of being on site, might be, having to view the clues… think about them… analyze them on site.

        The question I ask myself is, where does this stake place? wwwh? hoB? Water high? etc. Could “no place for the meek” refer to, the end we need to view, to see where we need to go?

        There are a lot of WhatIF’s that might need to be considered. While some of my thoughts relate to the beginning, and / or, the first two clues… is it possible that somewhere along the line there must be something that needs less stomping and more viewing?

        Maybe the mirror we might be trying to understand is; that thought of climbing a mountain just to see where I was.
        It’s an older comment, but one many leave to collect dust.

        • LOL!! I like pulling Goofy’s tail!! But yes Seeker, I have long thought that at least the ninth would have to be identified on site.

          And, I agree that, after the fist two, BOTG may be required at any point, I keep that in the forefront of my thinker!!

          It might be conditional-bias on my part, but Fenn made a comment about eighteen months ago that I utilize to validate a potential solve. I start applying it immediately upon identifying an area with the first two clues. If the area doesn’t meet the criteria, I’m outta there! But, in conjuction with that, I am also of the opinion that distance between the third and ninth clues is not that great.(based on his comments)

          I doubt that I am the only who utilizes this next research tool, but it has worked great for me. Everybody has cameras these days,….. Do you know how many public websites there are that people post pictures, and videos, to?? There are millions of pics/videos of the Rocky Mountains alone. It’s amazing what people take pictures of, and comment on. If many people(searchers or not) have been as close as 500 feet, you can bet that most have taken pictures of the area and they can be found online. I have been able to find a number taken in any area I was interested in. No need to go there to get the lay of the land, at least initially! 🙂 
          And yep, I have considered that ‘no place for the meek’ may be the end we are going to. It may not be what is geographically next. He may just be saying that is where we ‘end’. We may need to work past ‘end is nigh’, ‘no paddle’, ‘heavy loads/water high’ immediately after HOB. And ‘no place for the meek’ may actually be the blaze or, perhaps it something we gaze upon when looking down?

          Thanks for playing, Seeker!!! 🙂

        • “Maybe the mirror we might be trying to understand is; that thought of climbing a mountain just to see where I was.
          It’s an older comment, but one many leave to collect dust.”

          Seeker, what is this referencing?

      • Loco, if you were to ask the same question to ff about tomfoolery and homophones, do you think the answer will be the same?

        • Oz, I truly don’t know. I’ve looked at them a couple of times myself and am still on the fence as to whether they were used or not.

          And, if I asked, there is no way to know what his answer would be…..but, from the latest Q&A, I see that you don’t ask a question and answer it yourself!!!!! 🙂

          • LOL why not? at least “you” would know you’re not wrong, right?

            Hey PD your a woman. Could you ask fenn,~ after hiding the chest did he go out to lunch? I doubt if he would answer me because I’m not.
            A woman, I mean…
            Although, I’m told I’m always out to lunch, or something about a knife in the draw.

            But I have to go now, I need to get something from the shed for CH. a pail or a garden hose or a water balloon… I need to be careful in there… many sharp tools hanging around.

          • Yep, I guess one can argue that until the chest is found, lots out here is tomfoolery.

  21. That important possibility, imo, is something that Dal has mentioned in one of his post, but no one, not even Dal took notice of it.; the important possibility that is.

    IMO, the HOB is below WWWH. You must fine it (WWWH) b4 you find HOB and then take the canyon down to put in below the HOB.. Now how is WWWH and CD below the HOB? Cannot be. The instructions are to: Go there, then go down, then put in below somewhere, then go up somewhere until the end, you will know the end when you see something, and if you have followed the instructions so far you will see something (blaze), then look quickly down and there it is somewhere within 200 ft.

    That is the recipe directions for finding the chess; now find the elusive ingredients. If you find the main ingredient (wwwh) you are on your way to finding the others and finishing the chase. IMO…..

    • ManOwar,
      Your concept might be missing something else important. The certainty beforehand, the part where the clues references apparently can be discovered at home…just not in practicality of “finding” the chest… And, walk right to the chest.

      You, have a searcher walking out the clues, and down into a canyon… why is that a must do? Where in the poem does it say… you [ a searcher ] needs travel, or could it simply be stating the waters travel.

      Look at it this way; if i gave you a point on a map to go to, you would set a course on that map to get to it, Right?

      But if I gave you a course on a map that lead to a point… would you not go to that point from where-ever you start from?

      Just a different perspective…

      • Seeker, the point on Forrest’s map is not given in a name like, Denver or Taos it’s given in the words of a poem. Tthe directions I gave can be followed on the map mentally or can be followed physically. You can look at the map( let’s say Google Live)find a place called WWH which is in a canyon then follow it down visually till you see the HOB ….etc.. you don’t need to be BOTG until the very end. You can be certain without going to each location just that they fit the clues. Now you can also go to each location physically and be just as certain. Before you go you can be certain by confirming that all the clues you have found will fit the directions that I laid out., and that each clue meets the wording of the poem in some manner ,i.e., Definition, metaphor, word play or imagination. I do believe that one can solve most of the clues at home with a sense of certainty, but they should follow the pattern that I mentioned earlier.

        Yes, you can start the chase from anywhere, but you must first find WWWH to start your journey. I’m not saying it is the first clue, I’m saying it’s the first location to identify. The first clue can be anywhere in the poem that leads you to wwwh then all of the rest of the clues are followed in order. Get what I’m saying?

        • I get it. Thanks for the clarification. However, aren’t we back to the first clues vs. know where to start, line of thinking?

          So, we have the correct wwh out of all the possible ones… how did we get there?
          Is that place, the first true clue? and wwwh is clue two, Or, is the place where the correct wwh just told of ? so we know where to start.?

          lol.. which pickle from the pickle jar would you like?

          I think it’s important to understand ‘how’ we locate “begin it where…” out of all the other possible locations. Not unlike, how we locate and understand which blaze fenn refers to out of all of the blazes… even within that location, nevertheless billions within the search area.

          I wish it was as simple {in concept} as it seems… but the failure of the many who got the first two clues, and didn’t know, should yell out to all… there’s something more to be known.

          Of course, that is my thoughts anyways.

          • Seeker, … I think you need to pick a pickle. lol ….IMO, the third clue is over looked because it’s staring everyone in the face and they can’t recognize it for what it is. IMO, IMO.

            Your thoughts are good but at some point you must commit. Good luck.

          • It’s a waste of time to be concerned
            about billions of blazes.

            Look for the first clue first.

            If you think that you have found it, then look for the second clue, somewhere kinda nearby.

            One clue at a time should be qualified, based on earlier ones.

            All my opinion.

      • Seeker-
        “You, have a searcher walking out the clues, and down into a canyon… why is that a must do? Where in the poem does it say… you [ a searcher ] needs travel, or could it simply be stating the waters travel.”

        Agreeing with those traveling waters . . .

      • Here is the first time stanza two tells you to move:

        Put in below the home of Brown. At no time (if you read it properly and note the grammar) does the poem tell YOU to go down any canyon, the WATERS “halt and take”, not you 🙂

        • Wy, quakesped & Seeker… in keeping with your premise then the WATERS put in below the HOB not YOU. In Fact, you could go further and say that from there the WATERS continue until it finds the blaze. lol

          Who do you think begins the chase? The WATERS or YOU? Let’s get real here, it’s talking about YOU to begin IT not the WATERS. This poem is not about the WATERS finding the TC, its about YOU finding it!

          If YOU have been wise, not if the WATERS have been wise. He’s telling YOU (US) to begin the chase WWWH. OMO.

        • ManOwar,
          The poem is tells ‘you’?
          Hmmmm…
          The challenge is about solving the clues to find a “place”
          The poem clues refer to “places” features… it a map… it tells of details…

          Where in stanza 1 does it mention ‘you’ anything? where in stanza 2 does it say ‘you’ anything?

          It’s not until stanza 4 when “you” come into the picture.
          If we’re being analytical, and thinking and planning and thoughts of the whatIFs, using imagination, and following along within the poem and what it says… you are only wise if you “found” where the blaze is… not to mention the Q&A;
          Clues at home?… “All of them,…”

          I won’t quote the Q&A where fenn stated about not going up and down a canyon… you can look that up for the full question ans answer if you like… and judge for yourself.

          Al you are doing is hoping that is what the poem Might be saying. That’s ok… its seems to be working well so far, right?

          • Seeker wrote:
            The poem is tells ‘you’?
            Hmmmm,
            Yes, for whom did he write it?
            Some place or thing? No, he wrote it for us. So we are the one to find the places in the poem, not the places finding us. ‘It’s straight forward’…I believe he said (paraphrasing)

            6 years now and how’s it working for you? One can ask a million questions and purpose a million ideas, but unless you can snatch on to a clue that tells you WWWH is and commit to it then you are just like the beginner….confused

            You go ahead…. ask more questions and then tell the person who answered them that their thinking and ideas are not what FF meant when he wrote the poem. Good going, keep it up.

        • Apparently ManOwar, you missed the point I was attempting to describe.
          The poem doesn’t say ‘you’ have to do anything until you get to “found the blaze”

          While a physical search should retrieve the chest, the poem is not stating present tense of the searcher until that point. That is when imo, we’re given instructions to actually do something, kicks in.

          Q~ How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?) 
          A~ FF: All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.

          We { a searcher } may not have to travel anywhere except to the solve section of the poem ~ “If you’ve been wise and “found” the blaze… now you are given instruction to do something an action to look and gaze… with botg there.

          As far as the rest of your comment, Jake must have helped you write that… How long have you’ve been at this challenge? how many trips have you done and came home empty handed? How many questions have rolled around in your head?

          If the blog wasn’t meant to debate theories, discuss Ideas, and overall chatting about the challenge.. why bring up the complaints that say if you haven’t gone on a search your still a beginner line. or commit to one thing and run it into the ground with botg. Even if your wrong… just go, go, go…

          LOL how has that worked for ya’ll ?
          That excuse / reply is really old, and an end run to avoid a real chat about possibilities, and whatIF’s

          I wonder if Sasha as a thrill of the chase dart set for sale… she’d make a killing. Buy 3 darts at 29.99 and just pay the extra shipping and handing cost for 6 more darts free.. and a fortune cookie that read; it will be found this year, again.

          LOL thus far three, I know where it is [ within 3′ 12′ and 50′ and came back with nice pics and new excuses… while getting pats on the back for such a wonderful failed solve.

          “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

          I’ma gonna go out on a limb here and say the “location beforehand” is the spot the chest lays in wait.

          • With this poem, what is the formula to achieve certainty? I wonder because I have a solve I believe in from armchair. I believed in my clues solution. I had an image in my mind about what the blaze could be. I went to my site but was snowed out to reach my search area though I was close enough to scan around with binoculars. I saw something close resembling my blaze image then scanned around from there and saw interesting potentials. I couldn’t get any closer so I drove back home. I get home and still don’t know for certain if I am close or right at all. I am still not certain of any of it doing both.

          • Seeker, your limb seems very fragile. I wouldn’t go too far out on that limb it’s liable to break and you’ll fall down from your high perch and then you’ll have to start all over and climb that tree from the beginning.

            I would say that the “location beforehand” is the blaze. Didn’t you even say that you must be at the blaze before you could find the TC? That you needed to have BOTG after reaching the blaze.
            How can the “location beforehand” then be the spot the TC lays in wait?

            I think you may have contradicted yourself, but it really doesn’t matter. What matters is finding the first clue.
            Good luck to you.

    • ManOwar, I like your thinking (as shown by your message,
      above). But I believe that your generalizing about “the
      important possibility” is not valid.

      I think your second paragraph is good.

      Good luck with your solving and searching.

      • tighterfocus, Thanks, but what is it about “the important possibility” do you think invalid? Good luck to you also.

  22. “Maybe the mirror we might be trying to understand is; that thought of climbing a mountain just to see where I was.
    It’s an older comment, but one many leave to collect dust.”

    Seeker, what is this referencing? Is this a comment F made somewhere?

  23. Noob question regarding the poem, assistance requested. What happened to the ‘s’ in the word answers between TTOTC and TFTW? Typo? Clue? Which one is officially correct? Thanks in advance.

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