The Nine Clues…

yellow

This is the place to discuss the nine clues…For instance:
What are the nine clues…
Is the first clue “Begin it where warm waters halt” ?

449 thoughts on “The Nine Clues…

  1. My hat is seasoned with dirt, vinegar & sea salt.
    No crap yet.

    The nine clues seem to be 9 unknowns in the poem that need to be figured out before trying to figure out what they mean.

    • Still sounds pretty indigestible. If the poem clues put you less than a mile from a paved road, do you simply ignore it because it doesn’t fit with what *you* think Forrest would do? You’re prepared to trust your read of Forrest over a specific place the poem sends you? Even Dal seems comfortable with the notion that the chest is pretty close to where he parked his car.

      • Zap,
        Yes, my read of F is very important & I think I have him pegged.
        “Even Dal seems comfortable with the notion that the chest is pretty close to where he parked his car.”

        Dal never mentioned a paved road & I also believe the parking spot is less than 3 miles from the chest but I don’t see any asphalt there.

        If it doesn’t fit, it’s not legit….

        • Jake – You’ve been pretty quite lately. Hope the nice FL weather is treating you well.

          I’m going to have to concur with Zap that the chest sits less than 1 mile from a paved road. I did that after careful study.

          You don’t have to do terrible things to your hat then eat it.

          • I meant to say quiet. Sorry about the typo Jake. Or could my mistake reference other mistakes?

          • HMA, Zap, and Charlie (if you see this over on this thread),
            Would anybody care to elaborate on how and/or why you came up with 1 mile. Seems to be a common theme right now and off the top of my head I can’t recall anything f said that would hint to this. Obviously you don’t need to give away your solves just curious as to the thought process……

          • Thank you PD! Haha! All the times I’ve read that I failed to actually look up the definition. He definitely answered that question!

          • HMA

            are you trying to suggest that Jake is actually ‘quite pretty lately’?

            ..or do you simply have a stronger eggnog recipe than Sparrow?
            🙂

          • That’s cause I finally found that dang roll of duct tape! It seems there are now a 1,000 + 1 uses for it 😉

          • Paved roads are generally for higher traffic areas & for heavier vehicles such as 18 wheelers.

            I just can’t picture a man who loves nature, parking on a asphalt paved road & walking into the woods to go hide a treasure when he knows there will be traffic whizzing by the vehicle. Just doesn’t make any sense.

            Good luck with that.
            You might just get the man someday.

            BTW, I believe F worked for the Forest Service clearing paths or trails that may have lead to Forest Service roads. I don’t believe I ever saw a paved Forest Service rd.

          • WY Girl –

            “HMA, Zap, and Charlie (if you see this over on this thread),
            Would anybody care to elaborate on how and/or why you came up with 1 mile. Seems to be a common theme right now and off the top of my head I can’t recall anything f said that would hint to this.”

            I’ll attempt to elaborate. It’s as simple as following the clues in the poem and letting them take you to a spot. The spot just happens to be less than 1 mile from a paved road. F has never given us a distance of measure from a paved road to the chest but once you work your way through the clues you will have eliminated many long distance possibilities.

            I’m still working on the poem diligently and it’s so easy to stretch a tangent, but I have to remind myself that the poem contains the clues needed to arrive at the correct spot. The book, IMO, contains and an amazing amount of hints. They won’t stand out until you have solved a clue, but when that happens and you see the connection between the clue and the hints, it will become stunningly clear.

            IMO, when the chest is found and the solution is revealed, it will send shock waves through most searchers.

          • Jake –

            ” just can’t picture a man who loves nature, parking on a asphalt paved road & walking into the woods to go hide a treasure when he knows there will be traffic whizzing by the vehicle. Just doesn’t make any sense.”

            Who said anything about f parking on a paved road? I know I didn’t state that he would have parked on a paved road. The chest is located less than 1 mile from a paved road, IMO, yet he didn’t park on a paved road. Does that make sense, or should I give an example?

          • OK Hma,
            You seem to have it all figured out.
            Let me rephrase what I said.

            I find it very hard to believe a man of nature is going to hide his millions within a mile of a paved road when his church is in the mountains.

            I know, your solve took you to this place & I think you should consider thinking about the man that hid it before you try to do any solving.
            Half the battle is knowing what he wouldn’t do & not what he would.

          • Jake ~ “Half the battle is knowing what he wouldn’t do & not what he would.”

            LOL… literally… Ya now the man just by reading a few stories from his memoirs or reading some SB’s?

            The fun part about this discussion of “a road” is, Fenn never mentions one. He simply stated he walked from his car and back…

            Do ya’ll recall the story of, how they [ the family ] secret their summer supplies and it was always there the next year?
            They drove into the woods.

          • You see Seeker what y’all don’t understand is what y’all did in the very beginning of the chase.

            That’s right, y’all made the decision that he actually hid the chest otherwise we wouldn’t be here.

            You said: “LOL… literally… Ya now the man just by reading a few stories from his memoirs or reading some SB’s?”

            Obviously you’re either a hypocrite or just forgetful on your process because if you didn’t feel as though you new the man, you wouldn’t be here.

            Tim says “be the treasure”, I say “be Forrest” before anything else.

            Knowing people 1st is the key to getting inside their head & I have been a master of that.

          • I would say pulled into the woods as opposed to drove into. You need not tarry far from the blazed path to secret your treasures.

          • Jake –

            “I know, your solve took you to this place & I think you should consider thinking about the man that hid it before you try to do any solving.
            Half the battle is knowing what he wouldn’t do & not what he would.”

            I’m going to have to sort of disagree with on that Jake! If one is serious about finding the solution to the location of the treasure, it would be wise to study the poem and not the man. F has told us to study his poem. I don’t recall him ever saying that we needed to study him. Did I miss something? While it is nice to “think” we know and understand f, sometimes it just ain’t what we think.

            The poem is more than likely going to stump most people. Not everyone will be able to figure it out. However if you spend as much time studying the poem as you do of f, you might learn a few things.

          • Hma: “it would be wise to study the poem and not the man.”

            Good luck with that statement. If you haven’t noticed, a great deal of the poem is about him. Oh wait, “I” is someone else LOL…

            What’s your moniker?
            Who said that?
            You or him?

          • Jake
            I reluctantly agree with you on this point.
            (and not just coz ya ‘quite pretty’)

            If I imagine discovering a location, that is unlikely to be stumbled upon by another random human, I’d imagine that place would be remote enough to be accessed (only) by a minor vehicle track, at best.

            I’ll go one further and speculate that ‘no place for the meek’ could be describing that very track.

            ..not just a purdy face (either) huh?
            🙂

          • Jake,
            You may think you know fenn so well, but I guarantee you don’t know me. I’m not finding fenn, I’m attempting to solving/interpreting a poem. I don’t think the poem’s “clues” are about fenn at all… only the back story of why the poem got its legs, and not because of cancer. Hence, the title of the book.

            *I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but …

            Maybe you should write a book, title it, How well I know the Man….lol

          • Seeker,
            I know enough about you that I don’t want to know anymore.

            My focus is on F & not you although you seem to think so.
            I never mentioned you personally just people in general, not just men either as you stated.

            & yes, I have you pegged as well.

          • Jake –

            “Knowing people 1st is the key to getting inside their head & I have been a master of that.”

            How do you feel about forgeries Jake? Forrest learned to spot forgeries and even bought and sold them. Do you think you can spot a forgery? It’s tough to tell the difference between a forgery and the real thing sometimes.

          • Yes Hma, I am familiar with the forgeries & he made a bundle with them but now your going back to the man against your statement.

            You should always keep his #1 rule close to your vest.

          • Jake –

            “Yes Hma, I am familiar with the forgeries & he made a bundle with them but now your going back to the man against your statement.”

            I don’t think you understood what I was implying. Have you considered this *what if*. What if the poem is a forgery? Have you considered that? On the flip side, what if the poem is authentic as well? I see it as both. What do you see? These seem like logical questions to me. Have you asked yourself what is possible or what f might be capable of doing? I’m not talking about physical abilities here Jake.

            IMO, f is one of the most clever people, you or anyone of us will ever be connected with. I can imagine him grinning from ear to ear while writing the poem and the book. 🙂

          • Never mind the “what ifs” Hma,
            I’ve already researched that ave & most of you ignored it.

            If you want to go down the “what if” road, then you must look at the infinite amount of possibilities to what ifs & you will be out of the game.

            What I try to get you guys to focus on is the things we know about him & not the infinite statements he’s made.

            What if – can lead you to no where & it seems many have fallen for it.

          • Jake ~ “Obviously you’re either a hypocrite or just forgetful on your process because if you didn’t feel as though you new the man, you wouldn’t be here.”
            ~Adding ~ “I never mentioned you personally just people in general, not just men either as you stated.”

            So what your saying in your comments is, we all [ “people in general”] are hypocrites if we don’t think like you.
            Of course your absolutely correct Jake, the poem can only be understood the way you want it to be… lol… fenn was right when he said he’s happy the poem is doing its job… Or that many don’t see it the way he does… Or he was thinking down the road…

            Just out of curiosity, after you read the two theories I presented… did either of those theories mentioned fenn or what he did as a kid or an adult, his years in the war, his business, his cancer, his family, friends, or his dog? LOL one was about humans into the new world, the other of the RM’s themselves.
            It still amazes me at times when those who ‘know the man’ ‘know how the poem is to be read’ or solved, are the biggest barkers in the pack against anything in contradiction to ‘their’ brilliant solve.

            And where did I mention anything about; “…not just *men* either as you [meaning me] stated.” ?

          • I knew you would respond in this manner to defend yourself.
            You’re so predictable.

            You said: “So what your saying in your comments is, we all [ “people in general”] are hypocrites if we don’t think like you.”

            Did not say that – WOOSH – right over your head as expected once again I did not expect you understand such a simple thought.

            I am not going to explain it to you because you will never get it & you will twist the words to your liking to make you feel better.

            You are so predictable & you let people get in your head so easy.
            I already know what your response will be.

          • Jake –

            “Never mind the “what ifs” Hma,
            I’ve already researched that ave & most of you ignored it.”

            Thanks for the response Jake. Not considering the *what ifs* might prove to be a lot less fruitful. Even f said, “have you considered the what ifs?”

            “If you want to go down the “what if” road, then you must look at the infinite amount of possibilities to what ifs & you will be out of the game.”

            I don’t think there is an infinite amount of possibilities if you are following the poem correctly. If you choose to see the forgery then yes you can come up with an infinite or almost infinite amount of solutions. The last 6 years proves this point.

            “What I try to get you guys to focus on is the things we know about him & not the infinite statements he’s made.”

            Don’t focus on him so much. Focus on the poem. Better yet, focus on a word that is key. It might shock you.

            “What if – can lead you to no where & it seems many have fallen for it.”

            IMO, 100% of searchers fall the forgery the first time around. Very few will spot the fake and look deeper. Following a forgery will not lead to the treasure chest. Personally speaking, I had to adjust several things and also let go of my initial thoughts on how to work the poem in order to place myself in a position to see what f has given to all of us.

            I realize that nothing more that I say will steer or help you Jake. You’ve chosen to look at the poem one way and won’t consider anything else. That is fine and you are welcome to boost the local economies with your dollars, but don’t expect to find a chest in return.

            One last question. Will you do a Youtube video of yourself eating your hat if the chest is found less than 1 mile from a paved road?

          • Hma: “I realize that nothing more that I say will steer or help you Jake.”

            One of the things I do like about your solve & what you have said is the area.
            SW Montana is one of those things we can agree on.
            All BOTG searchers have been boosting the locals economies including yourself.

            I will make & post a video of such but know it will never happen.
            You are way to out there to figure it out.

            Please disregard the “what if’s”.
            Your mind is your worst enemy when F has such suggestive thinking & we follow like flies to crap & Skippy knew this.

          • Jake –

            “One of the things I do like about your solve & what you have said is the area.
            SW Montana is one of those things we can agree on.”

            Yes MT is the state where f hid the treasure, IMO. I had to lay my solution to rest in early November when I discovered what f wanted us to see. I didn’t spend much time mourning the West Yellowstone solution because of the grin that I found.

            “All BOTG searchers have been boosting the locals economies including yourself.”

            Agreed. All four states that are in play have benefited from all of us who have searched. At some point the chest will be found and hopefully those economies will continue to move forward without the chase excitement. I’m predicting that the chest will be safely secured from the wilderness before July 4, 2017. Goofy might disagree along with some others but this is my opinion.

            “I will make & post a video of such but know it will never happen.
            You are way to out there to figure it out.”

            You will not be required to do such a terrible thing even when it *is* found less than 1 mile from a paved road. Thank you for saying I’m way to out there. I like being near the front in the chase.

            “Please disregard the “what if’s”.
            Your mind is your worst enemy when F has such suggestive thinking & we follow like flies to crap & Skippy knew this.”

            When the chest is found, you may have to eat more than your hat. You’ve been pretty bold with your statements and I think they might be too much to choke down when you “see” what f has tried to steer everyone towards.

          • Hma,
            I have not been bold with my statements at all.
            Do you know why?

            Because of the last seven years.
            It’s easy to predict failure when no one knows they were close.
            Why do you think JD owes me many bucks every time he bet he lost & he will do so again & again.

            Some don’t know the odds are very against them & the past does predict the future & oh so many keep following the same path to say this is the year.

            It’s easy pickins from where I’m sitting.
            Just go ahead & make your bets & I won’t have to search for the treasure anymore considering all the money to be made right here.

            I’ve heard “confirmation” & some have “proof” & others know exactly where it is.

            I wonder why most of these folks are no longer on this site anymore bragging?
            Maybe they got too embarrassed after realizing they were way off after shooting their moth off…

          • I may not align completely with your positions Jake as I believe the poem is all that is needed. But we all would be foolish not to factor in ALL supporting logic into an affirmative solve. I have my own reasons for believing your right but your logic is sound. I tell you what, if the treasure is found within a mile of a paved road ill share the hat with you!

          • Thanks Clee,
            We won’t be eating any hats & they will be eating crow or humble pie when all is said & done.

            Another reason why I don’t think it’s within a mile of a paved road is there are usually power lines & polls & sometimes cell phone towers.

            Deep in the woods is where I think it is, maybe 2-3 miles from a Forest Service rd.

            If you get stuck on any of the nine clues, I think you should skip that one & see if you can figure out the others after it & if you can’t then maybe it wasn’t meant to be, but if you can solve a couple or few after, then you may have something there.

          • Lugnutz,
            The reference I was referring to is; “In “Ramblings and Rumblings,” Fenn describes “a secret location” where the family gear was stashed during the off-season. “We just drove the car out into the forest about half a mile, and unloaded everything,” Fenn writes—and it was always there when they returned.”

            While in my post I replaced forest with woods… the gist is still the same, drove about half a mile in… “pulled into” sounds more like pulling off a road to park. Anyways, this was what my comment was about.

          • HMA –

            I am familiar with story. If you think half mile is far that’s ok by me.

            The larger point is that no one gets to fat off the trail. Anything placed even close to a trail is as good as hidden.

            As I have challenged others to do. When you are out I challenge you to put 100 bucks in a jar and place it behind a tree or rock 20 yards off a trail where ever you are anywhere in the woods. Leave a note with your number or go back in a year. The money will be there.

            No one looks up. No one goes far off trail. These are generalizations and they generally hold.

            I would add that you don’t know if the episode ever happened. You only know that Forest told you it happened. Jake would say that you should being paying attention to why he told you that since you can’t possibly know the truth.

            IMO Lugnutz

          • Yes Lug, always question why he said or did something.
            Most things are pretty explainable & normally understood but some things don’t make sense & then you should start digging.

          • That’s 30 minutes I’ll never get back and I had to go climb back up 30+ to find the dang reply button.

            What cha’ll doin’….upping your post count for next year’s Summary???

            Dang, we need a Therapy Thread ya’ll can take it too!!! 🙂

            and, I think maybe the first clue is in the Poem…..just to stay on topic!! 🙂

          • Lug –

            “I am familiar with story. If you think half mile is far that’s ok by me.”

            I never referenced a half mile. I think you are confusing me with Seeker. He reminded us of when the Fenn family would drive their car one half of a mile into the woods to stash their things until they returned the next summer.

            “The larger point is that no one gets to fat off the trail. Anything placed even close to a trail is as good as hidden.”

            I agree with you Lug. Not many will leave a clearly marked trail in search of other things.

      • By my solve, it is less than 1000 feet (and that’s a liberal number) from the car park…of course I’ll know for sure this summer.

        • Mistah Harty! That’s a cool name. Sounds like a character in Sherlock Holmes 😛

          I’d have to agree with your 1,000 feet as well, being that it gives so much leeway.

  2. Nine clues….could be a nine letter word, could be 9 steps, could be 9 number sets, could be a combination of letters and numbers, could be a title of a book, a title of a song , musical notes, Morse code…

    I have a library full of new books, thanks to Forrest and Amazon…. Fishing books, history books, travel guides, art books, Alice In Wonderland, Forrests books, Morse code, maps old and new…..the list goes on and on….not to mention notebooks full of information and bags filled with scraps of thoughts and ideas!

    • Whiskeyes—

      It truly is amazing how much knowledge we gain embarking on the search isn’t it? You’re probably far better but at “trivial pursuit” now. lol. I really have inhaled quite a bit of information in just a few months. 🙂

  3. just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons..

    Forrest said there were nine clues, but did he say nine clues ‘in total’?
    ..I mean, I can honestly state that I have six toes on my feet, but I actually have a total of eight toes, so…

    – jus sayin’ tis all
    🙂

    • Really Bert!
      Don’t we have enough things to figure out?
      If you don’t think there are 9 clues then you can just give up right here & not go any further.

      Why don’t you just say he didn’t hide the treasure……
      What’s next?

    • sorry to mess with ya feng shui, Oscar

      – just trying to re-approach this puzzle with a semblance of logic, tis all
      🙂

  4. I would think that stanza one does not have a clue in it, as many think there is. We need to consider how far at 80 years old f, could carry on the first trip 20 lbs, on his back up hill, down hill, or level ground’ or the combination of all. On the second trip he carried 22 lbs, the contents of the chest.
    I have gone alone in there, ( past the home of Brown )
    And with my treasures bold, ( two trips carrying his treasure )
    I can keep my secret where, ( where chest is hidden is secret )
    And hint of riches new and old. ( newer gold coins and very old beads )
    Stanza 5, last line.
    I’ve done it tired, ( first trip ) and now I’m weak. ( second trip. )
    f, was tired when he got back to his car, and then he carried the contents to
    the chest, and when he got back to his rented car, on the second trip he
    was beat ! As you know f has already answered the rest of stanza 5.
    Just heavy loads, is also speaking of the two heavy loads of brass, and
    gold. please consider this.

  5. I believe
    Stanza 5 introduces a narrator & a motive.
    Stanza 6 tells us the general venue, a large area.
    Stanza 1 confirms the venue and the approach.
    ————————–
    Stanza 5… ‘Here me all & listen good.”
    Who calls out … ”hear me all”?
    A Town Crier, a Herald?
    (Lots of newspapers named for that guy.)
    One newsman called out “You’re canned.”

    Heraldry, like petroglyphs, is non-verbal
    communication. It calls-out with symbols:
    titles, lineage, rank, ownership, etc.

    In Heraldic art, a ‘list ‘is a band or banner.
    Often it encircles the shield as a border
    or is a header for a field of symbols.

    So, Is ‘Listen good’ an instruction?
    Make a good list, like the one Fenn kept
    of his 101 rules? Or is it a reference to
    a border that informs some field?

    To the quick, I shouldn’t have to explain further,
    So I won’t. To all, stop ignoring what I tell you!
    The key is always in the last place you look
    before you can drive off to stanza 1.

    Happy New Year. OS2

    PS: Interesting name, ‘Harold’ … a War chief.

      • Oz, IMO he had the entire Chase all planned out, like flying a mission, down to the last detail, including the trail of hints in the SBs and his books, interviews too. I’m not saying that “listen good” doesn’t apply to the poem, I’m just saying I think it applies to every communication he makes.

        • Pina, maybe you’re right but also this could be an instruction to pay attention to something specific, most likely in the following line. I dont know…

        • Pinatubocharlie,
          Why would fenn have considered SB, and interviews at the time he thought of the chase and the poem?
          The book was written shortly before publishing,[ 2009ish] from my recalling of the event. The poem is believe to have been done almost a decade prior.[ 2003ish] All while the sales of the book were limited to one mom and pop store in SF.[2010] Why would the thought of SB’s on a web site own by a stranger even pop into fenn’s head? especially after the fact that the chest was hidden and the book released.
          Fenn already explain why the SB were sent, and about the clues presented on the today show has useless clues. IMO and only my opinion, because many hope these avenues hold clues, are nothing but entertainment and thought provoking. Otherwise we should have well over 200 extra hints/clues. lol there is only supposed to be 9 we are concerned about.

          “There’s a lot brain power being expended on the blogs by some pretty bright people Jenny, and it seems they are having fun. But the great preponderance of searchers don’t comment publically. Very few tell me exactly where they are looking so I don’t know how close they are to the treasure. I’ve said searchers should go back to the poem so many times that I don’t want to say it again here.”

          • I’ll add ” *I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t. f ”

            This seems to imply the location was writable before the thought of hiding the chest came to mind. Another words imo, the poem is not about finding gold but finding the place. And that might have been capable of being done decades prior to cancer… maybe when fenn was in his teens even.

          • ^^^^^^what he said^^^^^^

            Agreed Seeker!

            So, where does that leave us with treasures bold, riches, chest and gold? If the Poem had been written with no association to the treasure chest…..what are those words, which are in the Poem, related to?????

            hmmmmmm……….

          • Locolobo,

            So, where does that leave us with treasures bold, riches, chest and gold? If the Poem had been written with no association to the treasure chest…..what are those words, which are in the Poem, related to?????

            Before we can find the gold hidden in the RMs’ first we have to find the clues in the poem. For ff his poem is the trove, the words/clues in it his treasures, and the hidey spot his gold. Does it make sense from his point of view?

          • Locolobo,

            So, where does that leave us with treasures bold, riches, chest and gold? If the Poem had been written with no association to the treasure chest…..what are those words, which are in the Poem, related to?????

            Maybe from his point of view (ff) the trove is the poem, the treasures are the words in it, riches are the clues and the gold is the -place- With that, some of the things he had said after the fact make more sense, what do you think?

          • Seeker,

            Sorry for not responding sooner, but I didn’t a notification.

            I think at some point in time before publishing the poem and TTOTC he came to the realization that by itself, the poem would simply be near impossible for some to figure out without a little help. Maybe he didn’t plan it that way, but that’s how I see it working out from my point of view.

            He needs to keep our attention. He needs to keep it fun. And he needs to keep it interesting. All qualities of a good teacher. In Forrest’s case, a great teacher IMO.

            And IMO hints are sprinkled everywhere because I’ve found many of them, but like an archeologist, I had to do a lot of digging reasearch wise to get to this opinion.

            Take care

          • “” I’ll add ” *I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t. f ””
            How do we know forrest had not been hiding gold at his hiding place for years before he put the chest together ?

    • OS2, I like your ideas. You said: Who calls out…”hear me all”? Another person that fits the description is a “Barker”, described as ” a person who attempts to attract patrons to entertainment events, such as a circus or funfair, by exhorting passing public, describing attractions of show and emphasizing variety, novelty, beauty, or some other feature believed to incite listeners to attend entertainment.” And everyone in New Mexico knows where I’m headed with that…

      But I like your idea of “herald” as well.

      • Cynthia, I know the area you are referring to. That area is on my “List-of-places-I-looked-and-I-still-think-it-might-be-there-and-I-want-to-go-there-again”!

      • Thanks Cynthia. I really like your idea too. Funny, it never dawned on me and I read all his books this past fall (much of the content is in the upper Pecos area)
        Very smart & interesting fellow; generations of New Mexican outdoorsmen he will never know owe him a great debt. Good Luck.

  6. In case anyone is interested, I tallied everyone who posted in Nine Clues in 2016, which covers Nine Clues 60 through 71. The total number of posts was 8197, and there were at most 405 unique contributors. I did my best not to count the same person twice when it was obvious, e.g. JD vs. JDA was easy, I counted ANoN as being the same as Mr. D and Heather, Bob Miller = Robert Miller, Colokid = Colokidd, into=inthechaseto, Jonsey1=Jamie Jones, Lou Lee=Lou Lee Belle, Sally2 = Sally2fleming, etc. Nevertheless, I’m sure I missed a number of people who posted under multiple spellings of the same name, or under different handles.

    Given that there are now over 175,000 posts on Dal’s site, last year’s 9 Clues posts represent only 4.7% of the total. Still, it’s a statistically large enough sample to estimate the maximum number of people who have made a post at some point: around 8600. (In reality, the number is much, much less than this because many of the same people that post in 9 Clues post in multiple other folders.)

    What I was trying to get a feeling for is the fraction of the 100,000+ searchers that have ever posted to Dal’s site. I don’t think it’s possible to get a good read on the total number of searchers who have simply visited HoD (whether they posted or not) in the last 6 years. Even if Dal or Goofy had the means of tallying the number of unique IP addresses that have accessed HoD, I’m sure a lot of searchers have used multiple computers, tablets, or cellphones, which muddies the water too much.

    • Zap;

      We can always “count” on you for interesting statistics. Who
      had the most posts? Seeker or Jake??? Interesting data. Thanks – JDA

      • Hi JDA — afraid I didn’t tally the # of posts by each searcher. It took many, many hours just to go through all twelve Nine Clues archives from last year and tally the names. Certainly Seeker and Jake are near the top of the list. Seeker posted in all twelve archives (as did you); Jake in all but Nine Clues #60.

    • zap,

      Colokid is a separate entity unto himself and has been around much longer. I seriously doubt that he will be pleased with your associating him with the”kidd”……. 🙂

      • loco –
        With this being a treasure hunt, it’s very important and it’ll be fortunate for me not to have an association with anyone, much less Colokid. 😉

        BTW. He abbreviates his name, I don’t. Big difference.

  7. Forrest has reminded us many times of his age when the treasure was hidden, inferring less physical strength, reduced endurance, less agility, etc., which I believe to be true. And he also said it took 2 trips to his car.

    I believe WWWH is a place, a location, something man made, that actually doesn’t physically exist anymore; a victim of progress if you will. But such a “thing” might exist virtually; on an old map, in a history book, or in a poem. Or in all three places simultaneously.

    From there I believe his bread crumbs eventually lead to a somewhat public location where retrieving the chest in broad daylight might draw unnecessary attention. In my mind a daylight recovery is at the top of the not very smart (“unwise”) list, thereby suggesting getting it after dark………when it’s colder. In this case, a flashlight would be a “wise” thing to bring with you. But if you wanted to get it during day you could do so without a flashlight, though you’d be increasing your risk of people discovering what you’re up to, potentially landing you in the middle of that creek without a paddle.

    My plan is to go during the day in the hope of finding the blaze and assessing its location without too much fuss so people (tourists) don’t take notice. If successful, then I’ll go back at night to get it. All the while keeping it in plain view, along with my two trusty cans of Frontiersman bear spray “on hot stand-by” and ready for action. That approach may prove impractical as I really won’t know the actual lay of the land until I get there.

    Having said all that, there is one other possibility regarding the treasure chest’s location searchers have mentioned before. Water levels in rivers, lakes, and streams fluctuate seasonally, sometimes to a great degree. There is a possibility the chest is hidden at a location where both wet and cold apply, and is only SAFELY accessible a certain time of the year. It could be in a river pothole, only SAFELY reachable by a 79-80 year old man at the right time of year.

  8. I just read the book Oct. 2016 and in 1 night I found 90% of the clues. I will give ya’ll 2. Catcher in the Rye, and socks on a line.-they both are the same place. It’s a description of it.

    • Michael,

      Welcome to the chase! Most find 100% of the clues in the first night, but we just haven’t confirmed 100% of the answers to them yet. (wink).

      LitterateOne

      • I like to think I solved them all and many hints also . Gotta keep the self confidence going . This year I will let people know what I found . Just not his early in the year .

  9. I know that opposites in the poem have been talked about a lot, but I’ve been thinking about one set in particular recently-down & up. What if we are supposed to use these together?
    There will be no paddle up your creek maybe means you don’t need a paddle to go up the creek. Could it be that you are not supposed to go up the creek at all? Then the poem tells us to look quickly down……….I don’t think it means down at our feet or down in elavation………could be that the blaze is right there’s! IMO
    Anyone have any thoughts on this?

    • WYgirl, we also have this comment [in part]…easy for me to put one foot down and then step on it to get to the next foot….that’s what I did. f”.

      Maybe there is no paddling at all. Maybe no water or creek.
      If I was to image this stanza as no need to travel water… I could picture a natural staircase of sorts… say, maybe near a water fall, leading up or down ~Putting one foot down then stepping on it ~ stepping on what? His other foot?

      I still don’t get this urge that a creek is only to be water.
      The natural steps in the thought above could easily mean a “narrow passage way” with or with out a waterfall or any water at all.

      The other possibility is, what does no place for the meek stand for? We seem to be told an end might be near… is there pacing involved here? one foot at a time.

      • I believe the important task of the second half of the third stanza is to identify what “your” is referring to. Water or no water.

        Also, one thought on creek being water. Has anyone ever seen a creek with enough depth, width, minimal gradient, and absent enough natural obsticals that it would ever be capable of being paddled up (or down) in any type of boat? I think if you found one perhaps it would no longer be defined as a creek. Therefore, would the not being able to paddle up said creek be a simple matter of fact?

        • Or maybe the line… There’ll be no paddle up your creek simply means ‘you’ won’t have a difficult time [physically ] in locating HLAWH.

          Wise may be an indicator to think rather than stomp.

          Just a thought

          • I favor a less literal and more metaphorical interpretation as well. However I lean the other direction for this line. A description of inaccessibility.

    • There will be no paddle up your creek…

      I have wondered about the literalness of the directions given, down a canyon, up a creek; it sounds like backtracking (down a canyon, find hoB and put in below it, then go back up the canyon via the creek). Living next to the mountains and playing in them all growing up, it certainly is possible to have different canyons close to one another – come down this one, go up that one… the one with a creek. Various possibilities, no definitives.

      But ultimately what I have been most interested in with this line is the word ‘your’. An adjective describing the creek. Why is it ‘my’ creek? Does f have a crystal ball and he knows who will find it, thus he was able to write the line as such?

      If f ‘crafted’, ‘architect’ed, and made each word deliberate, then I think the word ‘your’ is significant, perhaps critical, in understanding the meaning of this line and the way you are to go once you have reached this point.

      Until one actually does get there (whether in person or by looking at a good map), I expect that this whole concept (if this is even a clue) will likely continue to confuse and present many scenarios for a possible solution.

      Start right and at least you have a better chance of going right; but good luck with that third clue, it seems to be a tough one to figure out! 🙂

      • JCM,
        We still have the “no” with the addition to “Just” HLAWH.
        Then the next stanza indicates we should have been or be wise… then we have been told to look quickly down. This seem to be more an observation than a travel up ‘your’ ‘our’ creek.
        Maybe the information here is we start possibly at wwwh and enter the area of the canyon by only a very short distance[ not far] [ but if you keep going it’s too far to walk] and turn to see what is behind us… Not seen from the starting point and why the need to be wise and look up at HLAWH or in this case WWWH, one on the same. Now we need to look quickly down from this new vantage point in the correct direction… and not so much down.

        Maybe, just maybe, this is why Little Indy “can not” get “closer” than the first two clues. Sorry botg folks, some are so worried about how far they need to walk, ride a train, drive the car, get the scuba gear out of the trunk… they forget to stop and to see where they been.

        • Hi Seeker – Your suggestion of not going up the creek is something I have given consideration to. I currently lean towards looking at it like this:

          There will be what ‘up your creek’?
          – no paddle
          – heavy loads
          – water high

          The problem that I have with not going up the creek is f’s comments in an earlier audio interview… you know it well.

          Radio Hostess Reads the 2nd stanza and says: “that seems like a couple of clues to me.”
          Forrest: That sounds like three or four to me.
          Radio Hostess: I guess you have to know where the home of Brown is.
          Forrest: That’s right. And you have to know where warm waters halt.
          Radio Hostess: Ah-ha.
          Radio Hostess: Reads the 3rd and 4th lines of the 3rd stanza and states” mmm, couple more clues there.”
          Forrest: Sounds like it to me. (4:30)
          (Mar 13 – CBC Radio Interview)
          http://lummifilm.com/blog/CBC2013.mp3

          (As a shameless plug, I just copied that out of my Chasing Words – Topics document I am selling) 🙂

          Forrest says ‘sounds like a couple clues to me’ for these two poem lines of things up your creek (for those who are going to jump all over me – yes, I know… “but he only said ‘sounds like'”… can we just follow the possibility on this for once that he wasn’t being deceitful or misdirecting). So if these two lines actually are a couple of clues that take me closer to the chest, then how do I not go up the creek and still follow the clues in order? For example, the creek itself is a clue and lets says HL&WH is a clue; I have to go up the creek to get to HL&WH that is up it

          Just one of many possibilities..

          • JCM,
            I just have to say your book is awesome! I’m only part way through the consecutive quotes and already I have a much clearer vision of how things progressed over time. I never knew what was said when before and find it very helpful!
            One thing I found interesting was how many times he told us exactly how to solve the puzzle in the beginning. Read the book, study the poem, reread the book looking for hints.
            Thanks for the many hours you put into this!

          • WY Girl – I am very glad to hear that you are getting so much already from reading it. Discovering and knowing specifically what f has said from the beginning is extremely helpful and gives a solid base in how to approach solving his poem.

        • Quite possible that stanza 3 gives directions to the “blaze”: From there it’s no place for the meek, The end is ever drawing nigh;

          And, describes it: There’ll be no paddle up your creek, Just heavy loads and water high.

          Or, maybe the entire stanza is descriptive of the “blaze” and it is recognizable once you know “hoB”.

          At any rate, stanza 3 has to relate to the “blaze”.

          After all, stanza 4 starts with: If you’ve been wise and found the blaze….so, at that point you should have identified and be at the “blaze” and ready to proceed further.

          He said all the info is in the Poem. So the Poem must provide.

          (another 1 of many possibilities 🙂 )

          IMO

          • Locolobo,
            Yep. But one thing I want to point out, he said all of the”information” you need is in the poem(paraphrasing). IMO it gives us directions of what to do and where to look as far as researching, maps, etc.

          • WY Girl,

            Really?? He said all the information?

            And, it gives us directions, too? ….dang, who’d a thunk that??

            Thanks WY, you’re all right! 🙂

          • Your discussion made me wonder…
            When does a creek become a river?
            One answer I found…
            “a creek must have at least 25 boats use it, per year, before it can be considered a river, kind of like string, 25 strands woven together and string becomes rope.”

            Hmmm…. there’s that string again…

            🙂 I love learning all this crazy stuff!!!

      • Perhaps the canyon is located below the home of Brown. “It”, the canyon, is not far from wwwh. The marker for the correct canyon is hob which indicates where to put in to the canyon.

        What im saying is that perhaps nfbtftw and hob are descibing the correct canyon.

        Scott W.

  10. Just read something interesting that contained the phrase “wiezened Junipers.” I had previously disregarded the notion of the blaze being a marked tree due to the time factor and the chase lasting hundreds of years. However, these trees can live for thousands of years. So I suppose once again I must learn not to discount anything…

  11. May be one must go up the creek by foot. Wade upstream. Significance is the creek maybe a feeder stream. The blaze may also be in the creek, only to be seen when wading up stream.
    MM

  12. There is a time of year that parts of a Brown trout turn orange, in the fall, Nov. I’ve often tried to make this a blaze…. give you any ideas?

  13. Hi guys! I’ve been following this blog for a few months, and thought I should start contributing some thoughts…It seems like the likely first two clues are begin WWWH and take it in the canyon down. Others have argued the first clue is in the first stanza, but I find this unlikely considering Forrest has said many searchers have gotten the first two clues. Logically, if the first two clues are as I suggest, it makes sense that the majority of searchers correctly identified the WWWH and which direction to proceed, but do not have the correct distance to the HOB (clue #3 – not far but too far to walk) – and therefore do not get past the first two clues. I don’t see any other combination of potential clues in the first two stanzas that would result in many searchers getting the first two clues correct, only to be stopped by the third.

    • Trailrunner33 –

      If you are serious about hunting for the treasure and exploring the majestic RM’s, then you might want to give more attention to stanza 1. If you just want to go out and explore the Rockies for fun then start in stanza 2. Welcome to the Thrill of the Chase!

      • Thanks Hear me all! I am certainly trying to be open to all possibilities, and in fact, I did have a solve that included the first two clues in stanza one – but it did not pan out. What I’m struggling with is how to keep an objective mind while analyzing a promising location. Once I find an area that may fit one or more clues/hints in the poem and book, I introduce bias by twisting the other clues/hints to fit the search area – though it seems most others have this same problem. Perhaps the person who finally finds the treasure will do so by simply landing on the correct WWWH, and making the rest of the clues fit in the same manor/interpretation as Forrest… I think the correct solve will involve some amount of luck. Given the infinite amount of interpretations, this outcome seems more probable than first figuring out the 9 clues, then finding a location to fit.

        • trailrunner33,
          I like your thinking trail & is logical considering the straightforward statement as well as getting back in the box.

          I have stated before that searchers must locate which words or phrases in the poem are not clues & this will let you know which are without trying to figure the clues out yet.

          I think you are well on your way to having an upper hand to the ones that think anything can be a clue.

    • Trailrunner33;

      If clue #1 = all of stanza #1, and Clue #2 = the first three lines of stanza #2, clue #3 = “Put in below the home of Brown”.

      Figuring out the distance of NF,BTFTW seems a lot easier than figuring out hoB…which would be clue #3.

      You MAY be right, but I feel that figuring out hoB is a LOT harder, and would stump more people, Just the opinion of an old geezer. JDA

      • JDA –

        Have you considered that NF, BTFTW might not relate to distance at all? What if f hadn’t published TFTW? Would you still think that this clue relates to a distance and if distance then 10 miles just because? IMO, NF, BTFTW was the most challenging clue for me because it didn’t involve a measurement of distance.

        IMO the video about the backwards bike is very suggestive that we must make more than one adjustment as we work through the poem. He never promised that it would be easy.

        • HMA;

          To me, it has always related to distance. At first I thought 15 miles or less, then when TFTW came out I settled on 10 miles, and it just happened that for me, it worked out to be almost exactly 10 miles. JDA

    • Trailrunner,
      No one knows for sure what the first two clues are… even the ones who fenn stated deciphered the first two clues. The very first comment on this that I found was in ‘forrest gets mail’ section above.

      As to the “many” “few” “several” who have indicated to fenn the first two clues, it might be wise to keep in mind how ‘many’ might many be? or several or a few. The main thought is, at least in my thoughts, why didn’t they know the had those clues? or at least fenn feels they didn’t know.

    • Trailrunner…I don’t post much but like your logic. Sometimes I feel that many of the blog posts need “solving”, so I don’t bother with all the noise. My feeling, though, is most folks are making this incredibly complicated. I don’t have boots on the ground because I don’t have a solution worth a damn. Still, I think Mr. Fenn’s treasure may be located in a manner that a child will understand (I think he may have made the point).
      Anyway, your thoughts are worthy. Good hunting all.

  14. My thoughts on:
    “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,”

    At this point you are at “your creek”… Go up the creek (probably walking), until you get to a “Y”. Continue up until you get to a 2nd “Y”.

    Now re-written as: “If you’ve been Y’s and found the blaze,”

    In the words of Yogi Berra… “When you come to a fork in the road, take it.” 🙂

    Just my 2 cents… thoughts?

    • JimmyBoy: “At this point you are at “your creek”… Go up the creek (probably walking),”

      That seems logical to me but you lost me on the Y’s.
      Then again maybe that’s Y none have found it.

      • at the confluence of 2 creeks, it creates a “Y”.

        if you follow the creek until a 2nd “Y”, you have been to 2 Y’s (WISE == Y’s)

        now replace the word WISE with Y’s and you get what perhaps could be FF play on words.

        “If you’ve been Y’s and found the blaze,”

        Yeah… I think differently, and I live in Santa Fe! 🙂

        I hope this is a better explanation!

          • frank,
            I chose to go left (uphill all the way), and here is my logic as it relates to the poem.
            if you veer to the left, you are now on Tepee Creek. The next “Y” puts you at the intersection of Tepee and Wigwam Creeks.
            Which leads us back to the poem and what I think may be the last clue.
            “If you are brave and in the wood” –> perhaps FF is hinting for an Indian reference? (Tepee & Wigwam).

            Perhaps a bit of a stretch, but it seems to fit nicely. Also, there is a road off of Tom Miner road which stops approx. 1/2 mile from this location. Good location for 2 short trips in one afternoon. 🙂

    • Jimmy Boy—-

      I really like that idea a lot. It matches a direction I took in my “solve”(you could call it a half solve actually lol). Can you elaborate a bit? Are you thinking possibly that wise may equal Y’s? Just curious. All the best and happy hunting. 🙂

        • The creek in my solution is Tom Miner creek. Interestingly, the elevation at the mouth of the creek is *very* close to 5,000 ft. Therefore, anything up the creek is “above 5,000 ft.”.

    • Jimmy – (weird typing that since that is my name as well)

      I think you have an interesting thought, but I don’t think you need 2 Ys. If you following up the creek and come to a fork the creek Ys here. The Y becomes wise not because of plurality but rather because of the noun to verb change. Interestingly enough, I have found a very interesting area that I think would be worth exploring. If you would like to know more, e-mail me at Franks_Jam@yahoo.com.

  15. When Forrest was asked if the poem will lead you to the Treasure he responded “Yes, if you know where to start”.(this may not be exact wording but very close).

    But wait a minute— shouldn’t we “Begin it where warm waters halt”? Possibly no, if we read the first quote above.

    I remember watching “A Christmas Story”, where the two boys go to see Santa. They walk right up and get in line. A man says “what are you doing? The line ends here but begins back there”. And the boys look at a line stretching for a hundred people.

    But the point I noted is that we might say “they made me go to the end of the line” when what you really mean is that they made you go to the beginning of the line.

    So it is possible the poem doesn’t begin where it starts, or start where it says to begin.

    • “Begin “IT” where warm waters halt…” The question is what is “IT”? To me, “IT” is the quest for the treasure chest. Stanza #1 is the first clue, for me. But, for me, you begin the actual quest at wwwh. That is just how I read it, others may read it differently. JDA

    • I certainly think any reasonable and logical interpretation is possible – obviously no one but Forrest Knows for sure. The strategy that I’ve take is to “wander” around google maps looking for places and features that fit with any of the clues/hints in the poem. From there, it’s a matter of determining if there are other features in the areas that could conceivably fit with the remaining clues. This is obviously very time consuming, but I think it is the only way to come up with reasonable solves.

      So to amend my earlier comment, I think in addition to luck, the person who finds the treasure will have put in plenty of time evaluating the feasibility of many locations.

      One strategy that I implement is assigning points to how well a clue/hint matches with a location being analyzed. Essentially, the more points, the more likely that it is a promising location. I think a scientific approach is most efficient way of going about a search. Fortunately, I live in Denver, so I’ve completed three searches so far, and each was predicated on an increasingly high number of “points”. Going forward, if I can’t find a potential location without a higher number of points, it isn’t worth going. I think this approach in combination with a lot of luck is the best way to search.

      • Though I do try to focus on the nicer parts of the Rockies… an unsuccessful search is much more fun in a beautiful location 😉

        • At the time I was really excited about Durango & surroundings [we went last Aug.] While I did get to stomp across Cascade creek a few times, looking back now my friend was right, the hiking distance from the parking area, even just to the 1st falls was too great.

          The photo gallery on this site has great pictures of the hiking trips that these old-goats take each year in & around Durango, I know the pictures sucked me in… http://www.seniorsoutdoors.org/

      • I disagree that only forrest knows the location for sure. The only thing people can be sure of is that nobody has shown where the chest is . If forrest passes then he would be the one that cannot tell the secret and there still maybe someone that has claimed that secret special place as their own . Once the secret is out then it will no longer be a secret location and many people will go there .

        • thanks YSW, but I’m a bit preoccupied with finding a cheap set of climbing spurs off eBay at the mo (ya just never know when they might come in handy) ..but might check your link out later maybe 🙂

          (was that 19.76minutes polarised or decimalised?)

          • I’m looking at a new set of video sunglasses there myself . The sunglasses are polarized . It’s not French Revolutionary Time it is 19 minutes 45.9996 seconds . Sorry but I have to do a lot of calculations at work . 20 minutes is close enough .

      • TR33,

        “The strategy that I’ve take is to “wander” around google maps looking for places and features that fit with any of the clues/hints in the poem. From there, it’s a matter of determining if there are other features in the areas that could conceivably fit with the remaining clues. This is obviously very time consuming, but I think it is the only way to come up with reasonable solves.”

        I took exactly this approach in the beginning because it seemed like something few other people would have the patience for. I started in Montana at the Canadian border, raster-scanning my way through 7.5-minute topos west-to-east, down, east-to-west, down, etc. through the colored regions of the TFTW map, slowly working my way south. There were over 1100 such topo maps for the portions of Montana in play, and another 1260+ for Wyoming. I kept track of any locations (creeks, valleys, mountains, springs, etc.) that seemed like they had potential to match one or more of the poem’s clues. As you might imagine, this took hundreds of mind-numbing hours, but it did give me an appreciation for just how many places in the Rockies can be made to match some of the clues. I made it more than halfway through Colorado before something about the poem quite unexpectedly clicked with me, and I realized I had wasted the better part of a year on a strategy that would never have worked.

        So I applaud your systematic approach, and you will no doubt find many potential places that I missed, but in the end I think success is all about having the right thoughts about the poem. The poem is deceptive. In Forrest’s own words, “When you read the poem it looks like just, just simple words there. But I guarantee you that I worked on that. I felt like an architect drawing that poem.” In other words, there’s a lot more to it than the words.

        • TR33 –

          When Zap says the poem is more than just words or id complicated he should add IMO to indicate he is expressing his opinion.

          In my opinion he is wrong and is chasing a wild goose down a rabbit hole in the wrong state.

          IMO Lugnutz

          • Lugnutz: trailrunner33 has demonstrated that he/she has a solid philosophical approach and a logical mind, so should have no problem whatsoever separating fact from opinion. We are (mostly) not children here, and I’m not going to qualify every sentence.

            You don’t think Forrest’s treasure is in Montana, and that is your right. But I think you are naive to believe that Forrest’s poem is something simple that just about any hayseed is likely to solve. It’s been over 6 years; if it was simple, someone would have solved it long ago.

            In my opinion (happy?) you don’t have to be a genius to unravel the clues in Forrest’s poem. But by the same token, it wouldn’t hurt.

          • Zap –

            I call b.s. You clearly IMO stated your opinion as fact but I wasn’t addressing you. I was addressing the new searcher who might look at the words of a senior member such as yourself as fact. TR33 might think you Know that the poem is more than just the words as presented.

            You don’t know that do you? You have an opinion. I will just ask you and he and I can read your answer.

            Do you know the treasure is is Montana?
            Do you know the poem is something different than presented and from what Fenn has stated repeatedly?

            I will thank you for your response.
            Lugnutz

          • Lug — since I know how much you hate people quoting you, I’ll honor your request. You expressed concern that TR33 might misconstrue some of my opinions as fact, such as my suggesting that there is more to the poem than the simple words from which it is constructed. I thought I provided a pretty good argument for why that’s almost certainly true — a quote about it from Fenn himself. Seems like a pretty good argument to me when the author in essence advises against underestimating the ~apparent~ simplicity of the poem. But if you’re getting a different read from that admission by Forrest, then that’s okay.

            So, moving on, you asked me if I *know* the chest is in Montana. Of course not; not even Forrest knows where the chest is with 100% certainty any longer. But I’ll bet he’s 99% sure it’s where he left it. And if he’s 99% sure, then I’m 99% sure it’s in Montana.

            As for me “knowing” that the poem has more going on than the content and the meaning of its words, I would say I have more confidence in that than the opinion that the sun will rise tomorrow. But that’s just me. Armed with all the same information, you might come to a different conclusion.

          • Zap –

            I might well come to a different conclusion armed with the info you think is revolutionary. Of course I might see that it’s been done before. I don’t think I will ever know because I don’t think your going to reveal the info.

            I can help but wonder how one comes down off a horse that high when the treasure is found in Wyoming or when Forrest announces the treasure is not in Montana.

            Time will tell what Zaphod will not.
            Lugnutz

          • Hi Lugnutz — it seems like you’re more confident that the chest *isn’t* in Montana than I am that it is, LOL. Sure, from a pure square mileage perspective, the odds are in your favor. But how confident can you really be if you can’t even decide which of the other 3 states the chest is in? Montana’s a pretty big state to arbitrarily chop it off your candidate list. Dal searches there, as well as Diggin Gypsy, Jake, Spoon, Woody, HMA and no doubt thousands of others. What do you know that they don’t?

        • I was in this same club. I’ve done the exact same thing as Zap but got to a point where it was apparent there are too many options to choose from. Logically, I knew there was a reason Fenn said “All you need is the poem”.

          I’ve watched and read enough about different things like this (Lately it was a read through Ready Player One, which I highly recommend btw) to know that there is always something waiting in plain sight to be discovered.

          I am dedicated now to what I feel is the correct approach of using the poem to solve the clues….in this case, clue #1. I haven’t read anything outside of the first stanza in a month, trying to figure out what is hidden there for me. Zap/HMA, I know you have preached we should “see” the poem, essentially using lateral thinking to uncover the true meaning behind certain things. I sure am doing my best, and it has shown me a lot that I didn’t see before. I am drinking the kool-aid boys, and I hope to understand very soon!

          Zap – I think I found that very important error in “Jump Starting the Learning Curve” but I don’t know what to do with it yet, or which clue it refers to. Ill ask you about it sometime in private, if you have the time.

    • Sparrow –
      You have some very logical thoughts. IMO, the beginning is as simple as the first stanza. I used to be in the “I can’t decide where to start” category until a few months back. Be careful out there, because you might let out a few whoops and hollers if you can see what f has done.

    • I think we’re drinking a similar eggnog, Sparrow

      I see ‘begin it..’ as the beginning of Forrests geographical trail.

      but what better place is there to actually ‘start’ looking for clues, than in the first stanza itself?
      ..possibly even the first line of the poem (alone, in there?)

      chin-chin
      🙂

      • CH—

        I’ve been drinking Hummingbird egg nog in hopes my mind will work more quickly. But I have become physically exhausted because it takes apps. 87 of their eggs to get a full glass of egg nog. I’m beginning to question whether it is all really worth it.

      • oh, I was going to suggest sparrow eggs, but that would just be TOO weird..

        I prefer duck eggs, personally ..they’re much easier to catch and my impermeability to water is rather handy, especially given that I don’t own a raincoat.
        🙂

  16. Maybe you begin it at the first clue aka “somewhere in the mountains north if santa fe”….sure most of the Rockies are north of Santa Fe, but if I said begin it in somewhere in the neighborhood of homes north of Chicago, I’d tend to look at the Neighborhood directly North. So maybe the mountains north, if assuming it really is straight forward, would be the group/range just north. Probably too simple though. Lol.

  17. I think Forrest found this spot while he was young. I also found a hidden cave in Yellowstone, and used it 30 years ago to get married.
    We own 42 acres next to the Park, and so I hope I have a local’s insight into the clues. My guess is some lucky local north of Santa Fe will see the clues around her/him. There are too many variables fitting too many places. Chasing such a vague list of possibilities seems futile. Best to look in your own neighborhood, or discover a secret cipher.

  18. I think he’s generously offering to educate us on how a moronic troglodyte acts when intoxicated.

    ..and such a great example too – well done Jamie!!
    🙂

  19. Anyone else out there wish to find the treasure just to put to bed the “I found 90% of the clues in 5 minutes” claims?

    Consider this my sub.

    • Those people with those claims are often the most fun on the blogs . It’s the ones that steal others ideas and reduce them into a vague form with a meaningless nuance to claim it was their own idea that we can do without .

  20. ken,
    Every court needs a jester.
    I kinda think she’s funny.

    I will eat my hat if the 1st clue is in the 1st stanza although there may be hints in there.

    • The powers that be deleted what I said Jake…humor is good…I suspect you will be eating more than your hat. I will repeat to stay on topic…I believe the first clue is in the first stanza and that the treasure is close to where many folks go…

      • Been a lot of deleted comments & rightfully so.
        Some have been nuked as well.
        We seem to bring out the worst in people at times.
        Let’s stay on our best behavior.

        I once thought that every stanza in the poem held at least one clue.
        Then I boiled down to reveal the unknowns.
        I also thought that there were hints in every chapter of his books.
        Oh what a headache & a very thin way to think.

        If you read my comment last night you will see I am 100% in these statements as no one has any “proof”, “confirmation” & the chest is sitting very still in the wilderness.

        I know one thing, I will not be eating my hat & will continue to keep it on the menu as long as searchers think illogically.

        Random Words on Jenny’s site explains it best.

        • Jake;

          You say that you once thought that every stanza in the poem held at least one clue. I am sorry, for you, that you changed your mind. I think that whoever finds the treasure will have used every stanza in the poem, and that every stanza holds at least one clue…If not, I will eat your hat. JDA

        • Jake…If A person analyzes the current record of Fenn vs. Searchers…you are absolutely taking the Safe bet. Hands down…that is what I would do if I was you. But…because I am an adventure seeker… who happens to have excellent problem solving skills; I am more than happy to use up a few extra brain cells and patiently work on solving Fenn’s Poem.
          I still maintain that the first clue is in the first stanza and I do not think it’s necessary for me to offer up eating any of my hats to prove a point or to be overly dramatic.
          Your logic works for you Jake…other folks have their own logic that has gotten them this far in life. That is how it goes.
          Ten people could read the new Random Words…chances are…not all ten would say the same as you.
          Leaving out the whole first stanza or discounting it by believing it only contains hints is probably the worst bet a searcher could take…but…you go right ahead. I won’t hold it against you.
          Congrats on the Most Posted award…you kept a lot of folks busy here.

      • JDA,
        Your wallet has been purged & your appetite is still strong as you hunger for the glory.

        Who’s going to make me eat my hat & empty my wallet?

        As far as I can see it’s all speculation & idle thoughts.

        We have all winter to claim what y’all think you know & when summer rolls around with no bounty, we will probably do it all over again as has been.

        When it is said & done, I will still have my hat & my wallet will be thick.

  21. So let’s talk about the nine clues.
    And the non clues of the poem.
    Forrest has said he did not mislead anyone or is that any-one ?
    I go with any-one as his poem is designed to mislead everyone .
    That would be the words that are not helpful as he said in the poem.
    Not helpful can equal harmful .
    With that in mind I did a new solve that I discovered can be reduced to 9 single words to get to the chest.
    Here you go.
    Here is the winning solve (do I have to state IMO as it seems so contrary to confident people like me)
    THE NINE WORD SOLVE
    Mountain
    Canyon
    Mountain
    Canyon
    Canyon
    Mountain
    Mountain
    Blaze
    Blaze
    I could also call this the Double Omega Solve.
    What do you think guys ?

  22. The double omega symbol is because IMO Forrest is telling us the final clue(the omega clue) is, or has, a double word, like Walla Walla for example. When I found my final clue I didn’t think much of it that it was a double word, until I read TTOTC again and remembered “aberrations that live out on the edge” the double omega on the final printed page.

  23. IMO the 1st stanza is a preface of sorts, but not a clue. Unlocking this stanza will serve to enlighten and set the stage and “tone” if you will, for the following clues, with WWWH being the starting point. Again, IMO.

    • Hints, clues, intro, preface, a fill in stanza aside… Fenn does say “And ‘hint’ of riches new and old” Also, Isn’t it likely that where “alone in there” a piece that needs deciphering?
      But now the question remains, where do we find this information? Sure, the book will help, Yet we’ve been told all the information, the 9 clues, the poem… is what as the information.
      Does in the wood relate to alone in there?
      Does the question tell what alone in there refers to?
      What are the riches?

      C’mon Seeker, we have treasure, chest, trove what else can riches mean, but all those nice shiny things that will make us rich rich rich…

      Well, lets look at the words the wordsmith used;
      gone
      alone
      secret
      warm waters
      canyon down
      below home of Brown
      Place not for the meek
      The end
      HLAWH
      Blaze
      Just … go in peace
      The cold
      in the wood

      So why is it I must go…?
      In a poetic analogy, interpretation what do all those words have in common?

      Just food for thought.

      • Things are a bit blurry…I don’t have on my diving mask. Is there a worm on the hook…or is it a Red Devil lure ? Seriously…what about the other words such as….As, I , in , there, and, with, and so on? I believe Forrest warned that it would be risky…you know the rest.

        • Ken,
          It’s a simple question, what do those words have in common?
          To be honest there are others words and phrases with the same word usage. I just highlighted the most common.
          Maybe a better way to ask is, how can those words have the same usage of meanings?

          • You have posed a great question Seeker. The basics of your question have been discussed over and over in some form or another….here and elsewhere since the beginning.
            I have read many times your idea of the theme of death…which by the way… is a likely one to focus on given the nature of the back story and the allusion to the future.
            No matter how many times Fenn has claimed that the poem is straight forward…well…it gets pretty complicated when it gets right down to it.
            Ambiguous words are a favorite for many reasons in poetry. When combined with the overall intentions of the poet…the choice of words can add more than a few paths to choose when interpreting. Fenn’s a sly one…in how he made up his own rules here. Sure…he was intentional with following some of the popular parameters of different poetry styles…but seems to have combined more than a few. Is it all a smoke screen to hide the simplicity…or a decoy of sorts to force the reader in a new direction not popularly taken? I believe it is both, and more.
            He has used all of the basic standards of poem structure and added his own twists in terms of rhyme, meter, purpose, metaphor, slant rhyme etc…His choice of words is deliberate…he has said so many times in different ways. To me…that means the image and theme/purpose of the poem he is trying to convey… has to be dictated by a certain meaning for each ambiguous word he chose. To choose which one(definition) boils down to understanding the purpose of the poem.
            On a side note…this thread probably belongs over in another topic; like structure of the poem, or, the poem.

          • Ken,
            While those words can be used/related to death, The point is all about clues in the poem. While many hope the clues are only of waters, canyons and creeks in natural settings, the possibilities other usages of the words fenn chose can relate to another reading of the poem, and still, be straightforward.

            The comment is exactly where it should be for the fact is, we don’t know why searchers were at and/or indicated the first two clues and didn’t know and went pass the remainder of the clues and the chest.

            As you know straightforwards has been a debated discussion for sometime [ heck, everything about the chase has been a debate]. Personally I would like to see others [ previous poster- lurkers- newcomers ] or anyone start more discussion on the WhatIF this word or that phrase relates to; such as death, or birth, the RM’s, or who I could be, or any other logical examples of words and there usages.

            Literate one made a comment; he wondered what fenn would say now about, The important possibility comment of over 2 years ago… I have to wonder the same myself, now that first four clues have been brought up… yet still fenn feels those who did, may not have known it.

      • Considering that the search area is enormous, I must interpret the poem as beginning with a region, then narrowing down the location with direction and distance (a vector), and finally pinpointing the location.

        Therefore, I interpret the 1st stanza (in its entirety) to be the first clue. It describes a general region.

        I lean very strongly towards the interpretation of Yellowstone being representative of “riches new and old.” OLD being the geological treasures of the park, and NEW being the ‘yellow stones’ of Fenn (ie. the gold in the treasure).

        Just my 2 cents …. (I think I’m up to a dime of contribution now) 🙂

        • Jimmy Boy;

          For me, “in the wood” in stanza #6 describes a particular geographic area in Wyoming – Not YNP. Replace “In there” in stanza #1 with ” In the wood” and this will take you to a particular wwwh – and off you go. So,” As I went alone into a particular place in Wyoming, with my treasures bold (The TC and its contents), I can keep my secret where (The TC is hidden) but I can now hint of the riches both new and old that are contained in the TC” (sic) All just my opinion of course.

          JDA – Hope this helps a bit.

          • How do you figure “in the wood” is Wyoming? A reference to something mentioned in Forrest’s book?

          • Kinsol;

            There is a VERY obscure definition of The Wood that points to a particular geographic area in Wyoming. Sorry, I can not give you any more info than that. m JDa

        • Jimmyboy ~” OLD being the geological treasures of the park, and NEW being the ‘yellow stones’ of Fenn (ie. the gold in the treasure).”

          Why would fenn hint to the gold? He has implied the contents of the chest has nothing to do with the place, location. In-fact much of the gold was bought at shows.
          I would think New would have more importance than simply the loot… why?… because, imo, only the greedy side of us considers it as a hint. Are we looking only for the gold or are we looking for the ‘place’?

          Yep, I get it… gold is the prize. But that is simply the lure, the motivator, what sold the challenge in the first place. Would you be looking, searching, spending hours studying the poem, money spent if all that was hidden was a 300 dollar bracelet?

          The above is mostly an opinion, so I’ll acknowledge it as such.

          • Riches new and old are just what the sentence says . The poem ended one thought “And” then started a new thought that is a hint . What you need to figure out is what “of riches new and old” means . Or should I say that it hints there is a “hint of” riches new and old meaning a small amount . So the first stanza is describing a location and identifying there is a small amount of riches new and old there. That is some way of looking at it .

          • Ya-sha-wa,
            Hint of; as small amount is very good. Fenn did say he felt like he was talking in circles with the definition of few being scant… which is a small amount. We can look at “look quickly down” to mean the same… a small or short action, a small amount of time to do it [look].
            Even ‘not far’ as a small amount, yet too far to walk may indicate, not so much a physical track, but as, too far to walk in time.

            Then we have “begin it where” Is this a small place? or a hint in time? Which might bring us back to new and old as possibly past and present.

            The whole point to why fenn used the words and placement of words which, imo, gives us a reading of the poem that many do not even consider… down the road thinking from fenn’s perspective.

          • Seeker,

            You are right…. The NEW could be a mere allusion to “Yellow Stones” as gold in general. I was wrong to associate it with FF’s treasure.

            –Jim

          • Jimmyboy,
            Never said wrong. I think the Q&A answered the question of the contents as having anything to do with the location. But, I play it safe when assuming that there may be a connection to a clue.

            Such as, does knowing about fenn’s bracelet have anything to due with a clue… while I don’t believe that to be the case, ‘yellow stone’ may have something to do with why fenn chose gold… other than the lasting value and durability.

            My thoughts at one time related to Alaskan pacers and American eagle coins, and Colombian jewelry having a common denominator… with a geographical feature involved… But not the location of the chest itself.

        • Jimmy–
          I like the way you think. I agree with you once again. The first stanza does describe a general region. Keep up the investigation— I think you may be on the right track.

          • If only I could find something that fits the poem just north of Santa Fe. 🙁

            Is it wrong to want the treasure to be close to home? 🙂

            My head hurts … time to give this a short rest!

            –Jim

        • “In the wood” = Trees Charlie? That is not very obscure, nor does it point to a specific area of Wyoming. I can only deduce that your “Trees” comment was not directed to my post, although it is directly below mine. JDA

  24. ya sha wa my opinion has always been that new and old is a hole – old is the pit where he went in there – new is the hole that he dug in side the pit to hide the t. chest- so I my self would go looking for a large pit where the treasure chest is hid jmo- so stanza 1 – tells me what to look for

  25. JDA’s advice to substitute “in the wood” for “in there” in stanza one, is a good exercise in testing alternate perspectives …. though I don’t know what JDA’S special word is ( …does it begin with an ‘L’ JDA?) … I use the same technique & imagine substitutions with words or phrases like ‘ on the Rio Grande’ or ‘ on the Santa Fe Trail’ or ‘on my bike / in my plane” or “in my memories to write my memoirs” …. they all work and open new windows to other ideas.

    I’ve always found the “hint of riches new & old” very curious… how does one hint of riches? Are ‘riches’ even objects? Is ‘rich’ a subjective value or a universal one? Is finding an arrowhead a rich thing? Is finding a weed-covered runway & windsock an old thing or a new thing? Is an old thing that is recently discovered a new thing? What is the time scale to reference? Geology or history?

    • Is it possible that “hint of riches” can be thought of as a small amount? Like a dash of salt or a hint of sage? Not that it seems super important. He can keep his secret and a “small amount” of riches….Not small to us but compared to The Spanish Galleon it is a small token. That is how I have always read it. Not that I am opposed to any interpretation. Again, does it really matter tho? Just felt like chiming in.

      • yeah right, Spallies ..and I s’pose ya gunna tell me that 3+7=10 next, huh?

        ..sorry, but ya jus can’t fool this ‘lil lasso THAT easily ..nope.
        🙂

        • I wouldn’t try to fool ya curious…
          Just stand on your head and you will see…
          3 + 7 = 10….. = Ol = L + E …. = O LIE 🙂

        • tsk tsk – it’s just as I suspected..
          ..you’ve been living in the northern hemisphere too often Spallies – where the air is [evidently, a lot] thinner
          🙂

    • cptstevo

      that’s a good angle – I like it

      I’ve always considered that line to be the most interesting in stanza one, esp given that it mentions the word ‘hint’ (and who couldn’t use a hint, right?)

      I’m pursuing the possibility that ‘riches new and old’ IS the hint, or maybe simply ‘old’, referring to a local place-name that confirms where warm waters halt maybe? (Lamar Valley, Canton or Fossil Forest, Diamond City – that sorta thing)
      ..with lots of sage nearby, hopefully 🙂

      • I suppose I am a simple minded. I just take it as it is written. A hint of old jewelry, old gold from the earth (pretty old), new coins, new auto biography etc.. But maybe he wouldn’t refer to his treasure twice in one stanza. One being “treasures” and the other being “riches new and old”. I have pondered that as well.
        At one time when I thought YNP was the place, I had a funny thought that he was referring to the “family jewels” as his “treasures bold” when he bathed naked as a kid in the Madison River. LOL! Given his sense of humor, It made sense at the time and I could picture him laughing as he scribbled it out.

        • I believe there are many who felt the way you did. Warm waters halt being the Madison River at his swimming spot. New and old might refer to Old Faithful with its changing cycles.

      • haha yep, I couldn’t imagine a memory (of his bare youth) would warrant ‘scribbling out’ ..not without a quiet chuckle first, i reckon 🙂

        good point about both treasures being mentioned in stanza one. it does seem a bit curious to mention it twice.

        I did YSP on my one search, too – it was a beautiful place to discover, and LOVED the drive through Utah.
        🙂

  26. in 1918 landslides and flooding hit an area and took out roads and bridges. the people of the town built a cable way across the river to move people and supplies. might this be the heavy loads and water high?

  27. I know this isn’t the right site… but… how are you guys doing with this weather system? Coastal Mtns Calif. are in the process of washing away.

    • @21ponies yea, off topic but it’s some serious weather lately…. the picture of the Yuba River flowing under the arched bridge near Nevada City….wow! Water high!

  28. Sometimes, when searching on Google Earth, a certain location, or some sort of anomaly, just jumps out of the computer screen and screams “Here it is… Look here!”

    Check this out! 36.9494629,-106.2988283

    Enjoy (and explain it if you can).

    –Jim

  29. just to throw my two cents worth of ‘what ifs’ into the foray..

    what if WWWH is related to the Cordilleran Ice Sheet from pre-history Montana?

    or, what if WWWH doesn’t relate to a halt in temperature, but rather a halt in water movement? re: still waters run deep (?)

    don’t worry about my wacky ideas though, as I’ve recently invested in some ‘anti-flaming pitchfork’ repellanTHUD! – SINGE! – OUCH!

    ( ..well, it’s official guys – the AFP repellant doesn’t work at all, apparently)
    🙂

    • CH ~ “what if WWWH is related to the Cordilleran Ice Sheet from pre-history Montana?

      If serious, I doubt it. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture…
      I wish it was possible, but I can’t come up with the “many” to conclude the whatIf.
      However, IF we’re talking “places” and prehistory, there might be a chance ~ The areas of coverage. I also like the idea of “ice-rivers” as an alternative to glacier.

    • SKR – are you kidding?
      ..when am I ever ‘not serious’ about stuff…?

      look at the big picture, huh? ..’The Cordilleran Ice Sheet was a major ice sheet that periodically covered large parts of North America.’ – WikiSomething

      I reckon you should take J3DA, Zap and Oscar immediately ‘west’ (to Clarks Fork, in Idaho) as soon as Spring has sprung.
      – it’s highly imperative!

      (Focused. saddle them horses – we’re heading ‘east’ as soon as that darn snow melts)

      (pdenver can ride her mechanical supermarket pony
      ..I’m sure she’ll be just fine)
      🙂

      • I think the # 3 is a little low, but who’s counting. If I can save a step or two, I’ll ride with PD and make sure I have a pocket full of quarters.
        My point was the ‘many’ wwwh as well as ‘nearly all’ are north of SF. How do we get the many to work with just one Ice sheet? and stay within the RM’s.
        The we have the problem about WWH being the first clue… we would need a second clue to give us a smaller location. as several searchers have been on location and walked by the other clues. Trust me when say, I worked on this to make it work, but unfortunately it doesn’t work.
        But that doesn’t mean prehistory events can’t be a clue. I’m all ears if ya got something I missed.

      • Curious hobbit,
        The tack is loaded and trailer is ready…. just let me know when the snow melts and i’ll head that way.. 🙂 see ya my friend….

      • ‘three’ is actually my favourite prime number Seeker, apart from seven ..but whose counting, right?

        It’s a BIG ice sheet though, but given your aptitude for open-minded investigations, I’m confident you’ve already covered the Clarks Fork ‘ice dam’ comment (no pun intended), not to mention Flathead Lake history, nor the ‘still waters run deep’ thingy.

        oh, and “Ears” are great things too ( ..listening to Eddie Vedder at the mo)
        https://youtu.be/W3716hI8lkE
        🙂

        • Haven’t watch the video yet, but if you’re talking about the Lake Missoula dam… we still need to get around the “wwwh is not a dam” comment. Even if it was a glacial blockage. I thought about this only for the fact it happened many time over a long period of time.

          Maybe I should watch the video and see where your leading with this.

          • OK CH, had a listen to the video… If i’m as clever has I think I should be, I see where you might be going with this.

            On a lighter note, I never heard/read of the Watchmen. The alternative concept of the writer is interesting… but what’s with the sunglasses at night?

          • thanks Seeker, I simply forgot about the whole ‘not a dam’ statement – my bad.

            I’m pretty sure there’s a hidden message in these lyrics though.
            https://youtu.be/56HSPQHSqEE

            ..although, could be totally wrong.
            🙂

      • Focused

        20lbs of beef jerky secured (as promised) but don’t worry bout that ‘snow’ stuff – it’s just really cold moisture after all.
        ( ..I’m sure pdenver will be just fine)
        🙂

        • i love beef jerky, and i’m from michigan, snow doesn’t bother me a bit. riding horses is what the double horseshoe is all about. imo

        • Gary – you’re welcome within our posse of ‘usual suspects’ imo.

          ( ..can you procure a mechanical pony, and 20lbs of beef jerky before Spring, by any chance?)
          🙂

    • That story has intrigued me since the first time I heard it. I wondered at the beginning if there was any correlation but have since dismissed it.
      I like to think that Bill is buried on top of Cedar Mtn. I know a little more of the story than what is in that article ( or of the myth, as there’s no proof unless they were to exhume the body) that to me adds some weight to the claim he’s in Cody. If anyone’s interested I’ll be happy to share……….
      My mom went to school with a Frost. I’m pretty sure he was a descendant of the Frost in the story.

  30. wwwh I don’t think it has any thing to do with warm water but it has something to do with something like this – when it rains or when it snows and the streets get flooded and the water goes down the drain of the street – then it goes down pipes where it stops at this holding place where its cleaned for drinking water and other uses so to me that is something like where warm water halts its just my opinion you take it from here

    • Storm water runoff is not treated, it is retained/detained, and later released. Sanitary (or non-sanitary) water (from toilets, sinks, etc.) is sent to sewage treatment plants for recycling. Weird huh?

  31. JimmyBoy-

    If you are looking for search areas close to Santa Fe, I would like to work with you. I have several areas near there I am interested in, but do not have the means to travel and search them all. Send me an e-mail at Franks_jam@yahoo.com.

  32. “Unlock the clues that are scattered among these pages and you can go home………….”

    This statement is made on the inside of the dust cover of “The Thrill of the Chase” book. What a contradiction! Forrest has said that all of the 9 clues that lead to the treasure is in his poem which is on page 132 in the book. All of the clues are on this page. They are not scattered among the pages as the dust cover suggest. Also, on page 133 he writes “There are also other subtle clues sprinkled in the stories” which I can understand them to be “hints” because he called them “subtle”, but on the dust cover it is written as ” the clues”, so why did he approve this cover as it is written?

    Has Forrest ever discussed this contradiction? If not then why not? Anyone care to comment on this? If this has been discussed before I apologize to the old timers on this site, but us newbies would be interested in opinions on this. Thanks.

    • ManOwar;

      Could it be read this way?…“Unlock the clues that are scattered among these pages and you can go home………….” Among these pages, including the clues that are in the poem on page 132? That would be one way to read it, and have no contradiction. Just an Idea. JDA

      • JDA – What if the clues are nothing like what you think they are? What if you are searching in the wrong state? I will say that IMO, WY is a good guess however it might lead to more rabbit holes than E. C. Waters solutions. If you are fine with WY then keep chasing the rabbit holes so others can find the treasure.

      • JDA,

        Nice try, but that idea is not what it says. Why not just say “scattered among page 132”. That all of the clues are on page 132 they are not scattered among pages but scattered among one page.

        If the cover were to have said “the clues are among these pages ” then no contradiction. But scattered? Still a question in my mind.

          • JDA – F did plenty of talking. He has told all of us where the treasure is. It’s just a matter of following his clues. Not following what we think, what he has told us.

          • JDA~ Sorry, thanks for your thought, yes, I suppose you could read it that way.

            Forrest~ Can you help us on this one? I know it won’t help us find the treasure but it will help to stop the confusion. Thank you.

    • I personally don’t get caught up in the weeds on this subject. There are nine clues in the poem that will lead you to the treasure. However I suspect even the person that solves this poem will have a hard time identifying and breaking out the 9 clues…is it a word, a sentence, a set of words or sentences that complete an instruction or describes a destination…but that is just my opinion. Outside of the poem people also accept that TTOC has subtle clues whatever you interpret that to mean. Outside of that its all semantics…what is a clue, what is a subtle clue, what is a hint. Nobody here will agree on how each should be defined or more importantly how Fenn defines those terms.

      • fenn did, kinda defines those terms.

        “There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”

        LOL, I can’t understand it to be honest, because fenn calls everything a clue… But in all honesty, if he told us ‘his’ difference someone would probably solved it by now.
        I mean, fenn suggested to take a flashlight and a sandwich and some have revolved a solve around those. Like I said, I don’t have a clue… or a hint.

        Now if we’re talking weeds… there’s a subject i’m willing to talk about.

        • Thanks Seeker, I stand corrected, first time I saw that comment. I still find the distinction to be unnecessary in completing a solve…those pesky weeds!

        • I would like a list of places where the treasure isn’t (in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe. That would be refreshing and help dummies like me figure out where to go.

          • Bob;

            Just because someone has searched a particular place does not mean that ALL if the nooks and crannies have been searched.

            Forrest has said that people have been within 200′ and 500′ of the treasure and did not know they were that close. So, someone tells you that they have been to “Spot A” – they were within 200′, not knowing it, but you cross it off of your list – sorry! JDA

          • Agreed, JDA. But if a thousand people go to the same area it may be an indication of a dry hole. Still, you are correct and I know someone or more, have been close and didn’t know it. I think so many people have scoured New Mexico that the chance of it being there may be getting slimmer.
            Thanks, I have been reading all the posts long enough that my wife is not happy with me….:)

    • IMO, ManOwar,
      The 1st stanza which is the 1st clue, directs you back to where f keeps his secrets , the TTOTC book. Therefore his statement is correct.

      • Really good thought, eaglesbound. you would be correct if Forrest hadn’t said that you don’t need my book to find the treasure, the poem will lead you to it. So you only need the poem and an understanding that it’s about a treasure hunt somewhere in the Rocky Mountains….

        If he kept his secret in the book TTOTC then it would no longer be secret. IMO, his secret is in the treasure chest for the one who finds it.

        I think his dust cover statement is just an oversight and didn’t mean it the way it is written. Who was the editor on this book? I believe he was the only one editing his book and he has made plenty of mistakes whether he meant them or not, so I will take the statement as being an oversight.

    • ManOwar,
      It has been discussed, although I’m sure those chats are spread out over many threads and sites.
      I look at it two ways;
      1. the words in the book [ as you say ] are “subtle clues” as to say hints. Not unlike fenn usage of the word secret to me hide in some of his comments. [Dr. Pepper can, for one] ‘Subtle might mean hints of clues’.
      This would leads me to believe, the book cover is correct, IF the word “Sprinkled” clues, were meant as both the poem and the subtle clues/hints in the text of the book.
      I also keep in mind that fenn has stated the book will “help” with the clues in the poem, and has called those hints
      Both [ the poem page and the pages of the book] attached to each other, the book cover is not…semantics? Maybe.
      But if there is important information needed to be know of, I would think a cover, easily removed, misplaced, etc. wouldn’t have that info. But that’s just me.
      or
      2. The book is inundated with clues and everyone knows what they are and will find the chest next spring, or the next spring after that one for sure.

      Personally I lean to your example explanation ~ “which I can understand them to be “hints” because he called them “subtle”…”
      Whether it matters or not… I know some who received the book without the cover…

      • “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure:” f

        Seeker~
        The poem, and only the poem will lead you to the treasure.

  33. Interesting find tonight… Many have probably seen before.

    https://aroundguides.com/23702332

    Slip and Slide Creek is a stream in Montana and is nearby to Sphinx Mountain and Sphinx. Slip and Slide Creek is also close to Banana Peel Dam and Cutler Lake.

    I thought the “Banana” reference was interesting, as it relates to the story that FF’s father told him as a boy.

    Just some food for thought.

    –Jim

  34. So…I came over here to think about the nine clues and discuss them…then realized…I don’t have a clue…and there is nobody here. I’m going to mosey on over to Tarry Scant and see what’s going on.

  35. What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve. ff
    I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did. f
    …I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues. To me that’s just expensive folly. f

    *although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues. To me that’s just expensive folly. f
    WhatIF the starting point is not a clue? Sure, sure, this has been asked before… however, there have been “more than several” who have identified the first clue, and the first two clues, and some may have the first four clues… What the heck is wrong with these folks?? My answer is, nothing at all. These folks have discover references to some of the 9 clues, good for them! What is it that they are missing?

    *I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point,..
    Maybe the problem lies with not the location of the first clue, but where and why we need to identify the starting point. Why is it that more than several have the first clue[s] { as fenn implied as many as four have been mentioned one way or another } Yet, in the above, I don’t see any claim / understanding / significance to “Identifying the starting point”

    Is fenn playing with wording or there’s more to this poem than just clues needed to be know of?

    • Seeker,

      I believe I have posted before that IMO the first stanza sets the stage for the correct solve. A starting point as you observe. I hesitate calling it a “clue” because it doesn’t follow, is not consistent, with the format of the other 5 stanzas. I regard the first stanza more like something between a SB hint and a clue, but with an important distinction. They go together, one compliments or confirms the other.

      WWWH – this can literally be anywhere USA, so to help isolate where in the RMs to actually begin the quest, f wrote the first stanza. Sure, I could easily say it’s Old Faithful, but how do I know it really is WWWH? Why not Steamboat Geyser? There needs to be a qualifier in there somewhere and I think it’s in the 1st stanza. Mine does anyway. Plus, it also ties into my word that is key.

      Hope that makes sense.

  36. @seeker et al: I’ve always been a bit confused as to his use of the word ‘uncertain’ doesn’t mean the same as certain. To me it’s makes the whole statement irrelevant. Or, at least very confusing! IMO

    An important possibility related to the winning solve. Location? Time? Distance? Sunset/sunrise? Ownership of adjacent properties deterring searchers who may not know that it’s legal to walk the river banks to get to the land locked BLM parcel? Uncertain knowledge, what is that?

    • Cholly,
      I agree… and I don’t know if the important possibility even relates to the first clue[s]. But it seems that the start is the most important part of the solve… so that was my line of thinking for the post.

      Then again, your point could relate to the finalizing of the journey a searcher must do and relate to that important possibility. I personally don’t think the recovery of the chest will be a cakewalk, as much as a mind bender. Although I do like the waterway entrance. Many small creeks and streams are federal waterways tributaries… even if the enter and exit through private property. Just hope the landowner understands that as well..lol

      • My first (now defunct)… SOLVE…many moons ago…I used the “waterway entrance” approach. Sketchy business I have to say. I should have taken my mountain lion encounter as an omen, but I returned once more anyway. Not long after…Fenn’s latest comment erased that area off the search table. That was when I thought the treasure was in water too. That was a year down the tubes….

        • Ken,
          I was wondering your opinion of this Q&A, because of the water location idea…
          Question posted 6/26/2014:
          You have mentioned sealing a bottle that is included in the chest with wax. What was your reason for doing this? Were you concerned merely for damp conditions or is the Chest hidden in water? ~ Izcajun
          Thanks for the questions Izcajun.
          When I was ready to put the olive jar that contained my autobiography and two of my hairs in the treasure chest I studied the lid. It was made of tin coated steel, which is not easily oxidized in air or water. Over time those characteristics can break down.
          Although I am not ready to say the treasure is not in water, I certainly didn’t want moisture to enter the jar. So I melted a chunk of microcrystalline wax to the point that it started smoking, which meant it was at its thinnest viscosity. Then I dipped the jar in the molten wax deep enough to cover the lid and part of the jar, and held it there for several seconds. I wanted the wax to seal the threads on both the lid and the jar, but I didn’t want the heat to break the glass. After it cooled for a minute or so and the wax hardened, I repeated the process two times, increasing the wax thickness on the lid. The wax was petroleum based and won’t evaporate or deteriorate. When cold, it becomes brittle. That’s why I wanted the threads on the lid and jar clogged.
          All I know are the facts, if you want the truth go next door to the psychology department.f [ full Q&A for review ].

          The sentence below can be read two ways imo.
          “Although I am not ready to say the treasure is not in water, I certainly didn’t want moisture to enter the jar.”

          I think this is a clever response / opportunity fenn may have taken to say… Not in water.
          Although he’s not ready to say, but he’ll just say it anyways, line of thinking.
          Another example of fenn’s usage of words is; SB 124
          “I caught a nice fish and with it he took my photo. I mean he took my photo with it.”
          There are other example I could post… but I think you can see where I’m leading to.

          These types of terminologies fenn uses, seems to have subtle reasoning’s behind them… at least that is what I see… remember, part of the question was directly asking about the chest.
          What do you or anyone else think?

          • Well(pun intended)…I believe that when the Q&A came out many folks had a turn around moment. There was a lot of discussion prior to this about water based solves. There still seems to be a fair amount of water discussion and even those who still believe the chest is hidden IN water. I remember just last year listening to one searcher claim that they were going to prove it as fact. That of course never came to fruition….I think the majority of searchers that have been around for a bit…see that it does not make much sense to hide an unlocked box full of gold in water…especially in the Rocky Mtns. where the forces of nature run rampant. Fenn is a clever guy…and I do think his statement was an (almost) admission that it was unlikely hidden in water. I say…God bless any searcher who searches in the water…in the Rockies for Fenn’s treasure…you are gonna need a blessing if you want to make it safely home.

          • I think that Forrest has answered that question Seeker: ““Mr. Fenn,
            In your interview with New Mexico True Stories, you mentioned that you know that the treasure is wet. I checked out the date of that interview and it looks like you said that in a February, which could mean that you knew that it had snowed or rained at the site of the treasure chest, or simply because of higher water.
            Now we are in mid-summer, and if we assume that no storms have passed through recently, would you know that the treasure is wet now? ~Thanks, B
            Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet”. f

            Does this mean that it is IN water, I think not. But that is just my opinion. I wasted four months looking IN my creek, when I should have been focusing on its banks. Is it in a damp area, I think so. Forrest’s most recent poem seems to say this: “, standing on a sodden knoll, “. I could be wrong, but Forrest has posted several posts relating to mudslides etc – all pointing to the fact that the treasure is in a wet area, but NOT IN water. Just my opinion. JDA

          • Hi Seeker – I have always looked at this statement with the chest not being located in water as you mentioned:

            “Although he’s not ready to say, but he’ll just say it anyways, line of thinking.”

            Throw in a few other things that f has said, and it is hard to argue, IMO, that the chest is in water.

            “That treasure chest, I’ve said, is in a very special place to me; and if I get another disease, on my last dying gasp, I’m going to throw myself on top of that treasure chest. And then I am going to dare you to come find me.”

            “Which is best, laying on the ground on a treasure chest, your bones rotting in the sun, or laying in a hospital room with tubes down your throat and your nose, and machines everywhere, and people running in watching you all the time?”

            “I have no desire to be buried in a box. It’s too dark and cold for me, and too lasting. I would rather go into the silent mountains on a warm sunny day, sit under a tree where the air is fresh and the smell of nature is all around, and let my body slowly decay into the soil. What can be better than that?”

            My belief remains that when you know the things f has said over the years, and then you start lining them up, you can eliminate, with high probability, where the treasure is not, and form a mental picture in your mind of where it likely is.

            If one cannot do so from these few quotes, then I wonder about their abilities to think and use their imagination. 🙂

          • that’s my impression too JDA, that the chest is in an area, like a minor watercourse, surrounded by trees, in a smallish natural basin where the water catchment area isn’t large enough to create a flash-flood during a down-pour.

            I realise ‘physics’ covers a multitude of subjects, but ‘gravity’ keeps popping into my mind, and water and gravity (in Chinese philosophy at least) go hand in hand.

            however, I don’t imagine it being in a deep river (sorry Oscar) for the very reasons that Ken has mentioned, but rather a quiet babbling brook, or even the point of where a small creek or spring begins.

            And besides, what ‘ideal spot’ in nature, to rest ya weary bones, ISN’T accompanied by the gentle sound of meandering water?
            🙂

          • Curious Hobit;

            I think that you have hit the nail on the head. ” but rather a quiet babbling brook, or even the point of where a small creek or spring begins. ” – up on a knoll, with a bigger stream, and even a waterfall nearby – That would be an “Ideal” spot for me. JDA

          • hhmmm ..an ‘ideal’ grassy knoll huh? ..ever been to Dallas (in 1963) by any chance?

            games up, JDA!! ..Feds will be there any minute now
            BUSTED
            🙂

          • Yep JCM, some should read your hard work … and maybe think a bit harder… just saying.
            Chasing Words of Forrest Fenn – by JCM

          • I think the chest is still wet now & if someone asks him again & he answers, I would bet he says it’s wet.

            If the treasure is found not wet, I will eat my hat.
            Anyone keeping track of how many times I will eat my hat?

            The chest was wet in Feb. of what year doesn’t matter, then the other question that someone posted here & it was still wet according to physics.

            Wants his remnants to go back to soil.
            Even in water, the remnants will still go to the soil as soil is at the river bottom & sides everywhere. As far as the cold box (coffin) statement goes, I don’t think the box has air conditioning so he wasn’t talking about temperature.

            It’s wet, very wet & buried bellow water IMO.

          • That’s how I felt for quite some time Jake…After my second trip into frigid waters up to my waste…like the lunatic I was at the time…I realized that no 79 or 80 year old man was going to do things that way and expect that treasure to be safe enough to be retrievable. I say… to each his own and stay safe. I want to see you eat your hat…really I do.

          • I feel sorry for you ken & the other dry eyes.
            You have put so much time & spirit into this & now you discount the under water theory.

            There are safe places in the wilderness in creeks to keep the chest safe from flash floods & avalanches in winter.

            Natures cubby holes are all around & whenever the snow starts melting & is pouring out with high temps & there is a torrid of water flowing through some creeks that have carved there way for thousands of years there is bound to be a safe, calm spot somewhere in there.

            I have seen them in the Appalachian mountains & the Rocky’s.
            Never mind, I’m going to play Titan Fall for the night.

          • Seeker and all-
            For the life of me I can’t imagine f putting the chest in water. I know there are some that would disagree, but logic alone says it’s not. If I read the poem correctly, it doesn’t say the chest is in a body of water either. For those that “think” that the chest is resting in water, what makes you think so?

          • Jake – 23 times (eating hat, not that i’m counting tho 🙂 )

            but before your hems get all inflamed again, know this;
            I also agree that it’s highly likely to be in water, given the meticulous labour of melting wax 50squillion times for thinner viscosity, jus to keep mould out (?)
            ..well ok, I’m not thee mould expert, but seems a little extreme.

            But combine his comment about ‘surprised if not seen when within 15ft’ with the other one ‘considered mudslides, floods etc’ then a river sorta conflicts with both those comments (albeit depending on the river stretch in question)

            but if you tell me where you’re looking, I’ll give you my honest professional opinion
            (a GPS co-ord will do just fine thanks) 🙂

          • I got my Prep H – CH,
            Let’s look at the quote: “I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”

            I had commented about this quote way back & suggested that the reason why you would probably find it is because you will only be at this spot for one reason. Looking for the treasure period. No hunters, hikers & sightseers are going to stumble upon it & that goes for searchers as well.
            I suspect you will find/see the blaze 1st & not the treasure.

            If someones not going to stumble upon it, then it’s probably buried under soil, rocks or water.

            BTW, that microcrystaline wax does not get brittle when cold & I am not sure why F said it would.

            CH: (albeit depending on the river stretch in question)
            Yes it depends on river stretch & flow during flood stage & there are safe places to hide the treasure in water where the turbulence will not affect it.

            I will only give you my email address if you’re not going to keep spamming with me how you’re are absolutely sure you know where it is & you have proof & you’re 100% sure etc…
            I’ve had enough of those.

          • Jake –
            “Look quickly down…
            Your effort will be worth the cold.”

            So you have picked parts from different stanza’s in the poem and that is not messing with the poem? I know JDA uses things in stanza 1 and 6 to come up with a place to begin. I just can’t see how messing with the poem will help find the treasure. IMO, what you have done Jake is mess with the poem and if you do that the chances for retrieval are 0%.

          • Hma,
            I am not messing with the poem at all.
            Those 2 lines tell me it’s in water.

            I did not change the words or lines at all.
            Are you OK?

          • HMA
            I don’t think that using two separate poem quotes that hint at one possibility is ‘messing with the poem’ to any critical degree.

            besides..
            “Now we are in mid-summer, and if we assume that no storms have passed through recently, would you know that the treasure is wet now? ~Thanks, B

            Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet. f”

            are you calling Forrest a liar, HMA?

          • Jake…don’t feel sorry for me or others. Really…this is all just good clean fun. To set the record straight…I do not discount ANY idea or theory concerning water in it’s relation to the correct solve. It is my choice to not physically look IN water for Fenn’s Trove…unless…I find something very tangible that tells me otherwise. IF his treasure is found in/under water…I WILL eat your hat…I promise. Until then…have fun and chill.

          • OK ken,
            Make sure you give me your address if & when it is found in water.
            I will use priority mail.

          • Jake…DEAL ! I’ll even make a special trip and do it in person…maybe IW can chime in let us know who’s right…seeing he already knows. NOT

    • Cholly;

      To me the quote, “What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve. ff”

      To me, and it is just my opinion, it means that Forrest can not know how EVERYONE has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve, but that of those people who have shared with Forrest their solves, none have correctly analyzed this one important possibility relating to the winning solve.

      Forrest is leaving open the possibility that someone (or several someones), somewhere may have analyzed this one important possibility relating to the winning solve, but that he is just not aware of it. Does this make sense? JDA.

      • @JDA et al, re: definition of ‘uncertain’ Yes, that makes sense JDA, basically he is saying that no one has told him ‘something’ of all the emails from searchers and bloggers, he just has not heard mention or run across this one thing that may just possibly be needed….got it! Took me awhile to sort through that and reading the dictionary again….thanks. I should have looked the word up sooner. What would we do without Dal’s Blog?

    • Cholly: “To me it’s makes the whole statement irrelevant.”
      I agree.
      F: “my uncertain knowledge”

      I threw this statement out when I 1st read it.
      It’s just as bad as the “what if” statement & will lead to more rabbit holes you can ever imagine.

      • That seems like a great approach Jake – If you can not figure it out – throw it out. If you can not come up with a hoB – discard it. I am sure that this approach will get you the prize Jake. But what do I know – NADa – JDA

        • If you don’t use it, lose it JDA.
          Do you know the meaning of “uncertain”?
          Pretty clear to me.
          You like to see most things he states as hints but ignore the genuine ones in interviews.

          This one has been thrown at me several times by you folks who believe you need all the words in the poem.
          F: “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them.”

          The man was a risk taker all his life.
          If he didn’t take risks, he would not be where he is today & there would be no chase.
          So the risk taker is telling us not to risk discounting words in the poem.
          The whole Thrill of the Chase is a huge risk in its self.

          Get inside his head & you will better off.

          • Jake ~ “The whole Thrill of the Chase is a huge risk in its self.”

            Just curious, Why ? is it a huge risk.
            I’ll even throw my thoughts to the contrary;
            Get folks out, check.
            Lure many by a grand prize, check. { tens of thousand around the world }
            Made it difficult enough that would take, and make a long lasting challenge many won’t forget { especially as time goes on the prize increases in actual [gold] value } check.
            Gives a legacy. So far so good, but only time will tell… I’ll give it a check.
            Side note, help tourism… maybe not intended, but check.
            Insured, if and when found far enough in the future this bio will tell all, check.

            I could go on, but whats the “huge risk” factor?

          • Gee, I don’t know Seeker,
            If it hit you in the head you wouldn’t know it.

            One person has lost there life & many others have been rescued & let’s not forget about the nut case thinking his daughter was the treasure.

            I can’t believe I have to explain this to you.
            It takes time & money to put BOTG no matter where you are but most are not in the Rocky’s.

            You could lose your job, your house & some families have broken up over this chase.

            I’m sure he thought of everything when a million plus is on the line.

            Either way you slice & dice it it is a risk.
            Dead men tell no lies.

          • Jake,
            Seriously? that is your high risk reasoning.
            That people are so dang stupid and can’t control themselves or use common sense, take out second mortgages, leave jobs on a whim, and all the other ridiculous action “they’ put themselves in?

            That’s not high risk, that is pure stupidity and all from their own action alone. I don’t think I need to remind anyone of the suggestion, from FF from the get go, on the chase.
            If some moron want to tie rotted tree limbs together and cross a raging river… He should have brought is rubber duck arm floaters.

            I won’t even go into the one life lost, I said my peace on that thread…
            but why don’t you have a look at how many tourist, not involved in the chase, needed rescuing or died in just 2016… in anyone of the four states.

            High risk is what those idiots did that they should have done…. Heerrre’s your card.

          • Either way Seeker it is a risk for most.
            Whether it’s money or doing something stupid & even if they were not it’s risky to take a hike in grizzly country.

            There are risks in just about anything in every day life.

          • Yep Jake I get it… bathtubs are a b*tch too. But how many times does the man need to say… don’t go where a 79 – 80 yr old man can’t. Even little 3yr old Sally just needs some assistance. Millions live in the RM’s [bear country]. This is no more a “huge risk” than going to the market in a 2 ton “bullet” for ice-cream, or lose your savings when buying that item with your ‘debit card.’

          • I agree with that Seeker,
            Some people are going to go where an 79-80 yr old man can’t go & the conditions should tell them not to go as well but that hasn’t happened for the few.

            Some folks are so spell bound by the treasure, they will do most anything to get to the their spot.

            I think F had mentioned something about searching where an 79-80 yr old couldn’t go & that would eliminate half the spots.

            Uncommon sense goes a long ways.

  37. Just wondering what would make you say…What If the starting point is not a clue? Would it not have to be ?
    Further…It is my belief that Fenn has talked about the first two clues being identified…meaning that they were mentioned but not understood by the mentioners. I have never heard him say that people sent him their solves and they had the first two clues correct. See what I mean?

    • Ken,
      I don’t want to fill up space with all the quote, but they say searchers have told him where they been, walked him through their process, the searcher walked pass / went by the other remaining clue and the chest. Fenn has used the words, searcher have decipher the first two clues, as well. Some of the comments can be found in the topics above.

      The “whatIF” part relates to just that… searcher have told where they have been and that is how fenn knows… but what was it they were missing when they seemingly have the first two clues and on site? I highly doubt that folks who have studied this poem are that blind not to see “physical” landscape/clues.

      My thought related to ‘where to begin’ and ‘starting point’ WhatIF the poem has the information of just that… The starting point to understanding the 9 clues… what if the starting point is more important and is told of in the poem because without that knowledge or understanding… we could gaze at the clues all day long and not know?

      • The quotes are def. important ..as their content and his words regarding searchers travels. Just because someone tells him their solve…maybe step by step…doesn’t mean they had their clues in correct order. Hypothetical searcher could have the first two clues as their 3rd and 4th and he could say that they identified them and add in that they had deciphered the first two clues. You do not have to post the quotes…as I do remember what they are. I am just saying that…the fox has many ways of saying things that make us believe something totally different.
        This is a treasure hunt…Fenn’s poem and his books and postings since the beginning give information/insight as to how to get somewhere/treasure location. I added books and postings just because they help understand a little about him. So…the poem has got to be a set of step by step instructions where the treasure is. Fenn himself says there are nine clues that will lead to the treasure…to me…that means nine steps or waypoints or land marks to follow to the special place. Your sort of saying that there is an additional step that points to the nine clues…maybe you are spot on. Maybe there is a tenth clue….

          • Recently a poster commented about knowledge being required so now Seeker is building on that premise .
            I agree that would be a tenth clue as it would assist in the direction to find treasure . Directing to the start would be a clue .

          • PD,
            I don’t think ken or I really implied that… My suggestion is we are told to “decipher nine clues”… the question is, is there a starting point to locate those clues and if so, that would/should be in the poem, and told to us. And not so much a clue itself that needs deciphering… just hidden well.

          • The exact words…”….containing nine clues….” That does not say that the poem is exclusive to only the words containing the nine clues. There could be other words or sentences that are not clues…I see where Seeker is coming from and am always open to others ideas or hypotheticals concerning the poem without prejudice. I only said tenth clue to make a point…my point is that I believe all of the words are used to get in and out of there with the treasure.

          • Yahsua,
            What comment are you referring to? { this recent poster }

            If you feel up to it, you can go back to 2013 and find the same inquiry. BTW, there is no mention in my post of a tenth clue… there is mention of a possible answer to the starting point, and an answer is not a clue.

          • Forrest gets mail #11…9 men and a woman. Plus Brett. I count 11. Clues? Two masterminds (Brett and Ted)…and maybe a pretty accomplice who likes to shop. That was my take, and maybe some other folks counted again as well. Or counted in a different fashion…split a clue into 2 or more?? IMO and I’m not very good at math lol.

          • SandyB.
            You might be correct that ya sha we meant the SB. But I didn’t see anything relating to a tenth clue in that myself.

            Anyways, I was wonder how he/she came to the conclusion I “building on that premise.”
            So far the YA’s track record for accuracy isn’t at all impressive in my book.

          • Hey P –

            When discussed this previously I wasn’t able to get my idea to land so I will try again with you.

            Regardless of where the first clue tells you to go you will be taking actions. It is conceivable that YOU developed additional clues AND that you still follow the correct path to the TC.

            As an example if you believe that a line before Clue 1 instructs you to fly to Bozeman. That could be a tenth clue that lead you to take the action.

            The truth is the clues do not exist. Only Fenn’s interpretation and YOUR interpretation exist.

            I shall await the onslaught.

          • Seeker , you are just playing a silly word game .
            “there is mention of a possible answer to the starting point, and an answer is not a clue.”
            What is it that you are forming an “answer” to/from if not a clue ?
            Forrest mentioned there are clues and hints with clues leading to the treasure . The starting point that is required to find the end would certainly be considered a clue .
            Your just creating a swamp of confusion using word games .

            Substantiate your claim !

          • Hello Lugnutz. Still a little difficult to comprehend these thoughts, but I do appreciate what you are saying. Might there be something(s) in the poem that supports a/the clue(s)? Possible, but not as a clue. Not sure if this is what you’re suggesting.

          • Hello Lugnutz. Tried to respond, but didn’t go through. Perhaps Dal might find it for me and bring it back up as he’s done before.

          • Seeker , do you forget it took time for Forrest to give the first substantial hint which was that treasure was hidden in Rocky Mountains as the poem’s clue of WWWH could do that .

            All someone had to do was know what a rain shadow was .
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain_shadow

            And that the Continental Divide was a prime candidate to find an answer to WWWH . Remember Rocky Mountains is a hint towards WWWH as knowing Rocky Mountain information does not really lead to the treasure as it is too vague to be the answer to the clue .

            WIKIPEDIA : Rain Shadow:
            “Thus, the Continental Divide acts as a barrier for precipitation.”

          • YA Shawdup,
            If you had been around as long as you said… you may have heard the discussions about “AS I have.”
            But seeing you end-run my question about where your “quote of FF came from” by myself and other… I declined to elaborate on your request. Go do the research.

            Oh and the folks here have seen the “turning table games whining” before. It get boring each and every time someone use that.

        • I get what you’re saying about a searchers clues not being in the correct order. Although, that’s a little hard press for me… That would be saying, for example, one searcher start at wwwh, another started at hob, etc. [ pick whatever order ].

          Would that lead us to believe that all those searchers who did Identify or deciphered the first two clues, still had to be in the same area?
          no matter their order of clues, right.

          You see, I’m picturing in my head searchers on location and not having the same clues to start or out of wack… walking on through all the clues. Possible? maybe. just a hard pill to swallow.

          But when we add to the scenario a starting point… the possibility of the first clue, the first two clues and maybe even the first four clues being deciphered / identified… BUT maybe the starting point is not part of the clues?

          Hypothetical… the starting point is a vantage point of viewing the clues [ i’ll add, it might be closely related to the first clue ] … Ok, so what’s the point? In this scenario the searcher doesn’t stomp out clues, just simply enjoys the trees, animals, smells etc. and the chest?

          I’m sure you remember long before the first two clues comment… all we needed was to nail down the first clue and we all thought we be golden, right? Then the comment, and then the excuses that all those searchers made the same wrong turn, ok sure. Now we have the “possibly” of the first four clues. { yes, that is all we have to work from at this point in time } so lets say the four clues have been stomped as well… what is the excuse now? another wrong turn… the clues get harder as they go along… we have blind searcher? something is missing and it is more than likely [ yes, imo ] that is starts at the very beginning.

          Just thoughts…

          • Hello Seeker. What year did you begin the chase? I believe I’ve seen you when I started, but not positive.

          • PD,
            Heard about it from a buddy in late 2012, but didn’t really get into it 2013, when I asked my son what he thought… Unfortunately both have bowed out since then, and it’s simply remains a hobby for me to decipher the poem.

        • It does have the word “hint” in the first stanza of the poem which has been posted about numerous times. A hint doesn’t equal a clue.

          • I knew someone would bring that up Fun. I have attempted many time to relate the poem back to the book, as needed information. That line and brave [ as to take on a challenge ] and in the wood [ as to the book ] have given me thought that the poem may actually be saying ~ idiot! I told you Seeker, the book will help.
            LOL, then fenn answered a direct question on the T&E interview… “They don’t need to read my book, but they need to read the poem. The book will help them, but they can find the treasure if the can decipher the clues that are in the poem”

            Have I ever mentioned I hate those two words… hint and clues?

            So please tell me how not in a outhouse a clue… lol. I mean it’s up on all the forums as a clue, right?
            So could it be that many of the “thought / discussed” 9 clues are not clue at all?
            Anyways, thanks for making my head spin even more.

  38. Please don’t hate me for this, but it’s been bugging me ever since I began TTOTC.

    People have been using the word “solve” in place of “solution”.

    The word “solve” is a verb. The word “solve” DOES not have a noun type or form.

    Please use the correct word, “solution”.

    Incorrect: My solve contains A, B, and C.
    Correct: My solution contains A, B, and C.

    Let the hate and spamming begin… 🙂

    –Jim

    • JimmyBoy;

      You are absolutely correct, and my English teacher wife reminds me of that whenever I use the word “Solve” instead of solution BUT, every group of people develop their own vernacular, and as I understand it, “Solve” has been around almost as long as the chase. I guess that you will just have to accept us as we are – blemishes and all. JDA

    • Jim, lol,
      I like the word theory, but… in my mind, a solve and solution in regards to understanding / resolve / workout… is close enough for horseshoes.
      In-fact; one synonym for solve is: decipher, what we have been told to do.
      Then again, I actually got D’s in English class. Probably because I told my teacher Iernt to speak American, because my English sucks.

    • seems correct to me. In the Texas I grew up in, a coke could mean an rc cola, a 7up, nehi orange or Dr. Pepper. Even a Grapette was a coke in those days.

      • Ha…lol. Bob. when I move south 16 years ago, I was always dumbstruck when I saw folks order a coke and each person got a different soda… like your examples above.
        What’s the secret there??? I have a hard time just getting my Cawffee order correct.

        • it just may as simple as knowing the local knowledge. If you order a coke and mean a coke , all the locals already know you are a carpetbagger. Same thing occurs here in l. They LOVE THEIR VERNORS GINGER ALE. If you like Vernor’s it’s great. if you come from Texas, skip it Big Red is what you really want but it won’t fly in Michigan. Deleware Punch is probably a historicall popular beverage. IF YOU ACTAULLY REMEMBER DELEWARE PUNCH BACK IN THOSE DAYS, THE COMMERCIAL WAS BY A TEN YEAR OLD WITH MY NAME.I think ff mihgt have enjoyed it too as he enjoyed grappette. Texas etiqeutte may be a changing

        • it just may as simple as knowing the local knowledge. If you order a coke and mean a coke , all the locals already know you are a carpetbagger. Same thing occurs here in l. They LOVE THEIR VERNORS GINGER ALE. If you like Vernor’s it’s great. if you come from Texas, skip it Big Red is what you really want but it won’t fly in Michigan. Deleware Punch is probably a historicall popular beverage. IF YOU ACTAULLY REMEMBER DELEWARE PUNCH BACK IN THOSE DAYS, THE COMMERCIAL WAS BY A TEN YEAR OLD WITH MY NAME.I think ff mihgt have enjoyed it too as he enjoyed grappette. Texas etiqeutte may be a changing

  39. @JimmyBoy, this was pointed out a year or so ago on here, maybe by you or someone else, not hating. I say it doesn’t matter and is now officially a noun when used in the context of discussing finding Indulgence! It’s a thing! IMO I’d rather fight than switch! IMO

  40. Seeker,
    I have to ask, are you getting any traction? I mean you sound level-headed, no doubt have a ton of notes/ or a photographic memory, but are over thinking the logic?
    I’ve read where you’ve stated that you haven’t come up with a solve. Are you leaning towards potential clues? In my opinion a clue is one specific thing, something enduring, tangible in the sense that someone else at that location could plainly see it/ they don’t have to be hallucinating.
    I am not prying, just wondering do you have dozens of possible ideas in the 4 states?
    I am sure my list is upwards of a few hundred. Call them pushpins, points of interest, or what have you- the biggest drawback is that desire to travel to each and every one.

    • 9clues,
      I have no solid ‘conclusion’ for the poem. Many thoughts, ideas, readings, and yes theories… I have been patient enough not to jump the gun. By doing so, some of my theories didn’t workout [with help information from the after the fact comments]. So, I didn’t need to mortgage the home, or worry about the spouse filing for divorce.

      To be honest, I take very little “notes” I find most I need by a little research of fenn’s comments, other searchers posting { many have given me pause for much thought ~ others baffle the heck out of me..lol } and every once in a while I use the “old bat” signal to see if Loco is willing to give a shout out… But now we have JCM hard work to fall back on. So Loco can have his overdue holiday. {ps. pay no attention to him when he calls me ole’ yeller… he just jealous because I have better lookin legs } and six eyes.

      But I’ll be honest, no matter how hard I try… the point by point method of stomping out the believed clues has hit a brick wall for me. It always leave the question… how did I get to where I’m at. My answer has always been… a guess at best. Unless “hints” in the book are meant as answers, that is a guess to me. So all I’m doing is being honest with myself and saying… Seeker, Fenn stated the poem’s clues will lead you to his rainbow and chest. That is where I look.

      Now, all I need to do is figure out why fenn’s rainbow might be more important than the chest… without consulting my psychic.

  41. Forrest never said what the clues are, only that there are 9 of them and that if followed will lead you to the treasure. One of the clues could contain directions or a map, perhaps carved onto a stone. Jesse James did it, why not FF. In fact, some of the clues may be require a solution in order to interpret the directions. I said this many times, but maybe we first need the right map (perhaps at one of the clues) in order to translate the poem locations to the physical locations on a real world map.

    • WYmustIGo,

      I’ll take your thought a step further… all clue might need self deciphering to get to the next clue ‘correctly’.
      Example; “Not far but too fat to walk” has been a big guessing came, and yes, some have logical explanations in their theories… yet, many different from one searcher to another. Maybe the only place to decipher this section of the poem is actually in the field.

      • As much as I don’t want to admit it (due to my inability to travel often), I think BOTG is requried before all 9 clues are solved. So I agree.

  42. So I am going to throw another curveball out there!

    “What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve. ff”

    Could that be that we are incorrectly assuming the clues are all in the Rockies?

    ———————

    Fact: The treasure is in the Rockly Mountains at least 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe NM, and it is in NM, CO, WY or MT.

    Unknown: What about the 9 clues themselves? Forrest never said that the locations mentioned in the poem are also in the samedesignated area as the treasure.

    CurveBall: Suppose all 9 clues are located in maybe Temple Texas, and the final clue gives you the precise location of the treasure in the Rockies? Or another example, who said that WWWH and Canyon might not be in Arizona, but unlike the water flowing south west we are supposed to go upstream into the designated area?

    Personally I do not think this is the case, but it IS possible and nothing FF has said indicates that it is not possible. One thing for sure, it would certainly make it harder 😀

    Thoughts?

    • Agreed Wy, We only know the clues “lead” us to the chest. The words follow and lead have different usages. ex. Following a recipe… well, that would bring a new meaning to cakewalk, if stomping is involved. ex. lead or imo show or tell.. a drill Sargent shouting order of marching.
      One theory of mine relates to one of the examples you mentioned… well actually two working theories I have.

      As you said “…but unlike the water flowing south west we are supposed to go upstream into the designated area?

      If we begin where it all “halts” and end up at water high… it might be possible we are looking at were the waters begins and end. Not so much a circle pattern, but more in lines with… knowing the place for the first time, line of thinking. We might still be back at where we began.

      But lets face it… that thought doesn’t work if the stomping method is attempted, and some clues are outside the RM’s area. The chest is known to be within the RM’s. Maybe not far, but too far to walk means, don’t walk. just run with the waters…

    • Exactly… You need to know where to start… and that could be in downtown Santa Fe. Might be a historical WPA mural on a post office wall, or statuary in a cancer clinic’s meditation garden, or a poem on a memorial wall…. and once you study it, you know what or where worm waters are. The starting place has to be public and significant, and probably is an enclosed space because he went IN THERE. The clue is not the place, it is the idea that is conveyed there … imagination to imagination. IMO.

      • oops … that was my response to Wymustgo, Only the TC was identified to be 8.5 mi. outside of Santa Fe… not the clues. IMO figuring out “Why is it that I must go”, will lead you to the start place where you must figure out WWW halt.

        • On the funny side of things… Just 8.5 miles due north of Santa Fe is a small village called Chupadero …. translated from Spanish, means “Sucker”.

          How ironic! 🙂

      • I agree OS2, that is one of the reasons why I won’t laugh at those who are looking for some clues south of Santa Fe.

        Heck I won’t laugh at anyone, even those who think that the clues only exist in the poem, and WWWH has nothing to do with water, stuff like that.

        I only have two incomplete solves that I have settled on after almost 3 years. One of them WWWH is SinksCanyon south of Lander WY. The other solve WWWH is in the Bighorn mountains at ~10,000 feet. In both cases, the chest is many miles away from WWWH, but my clues are all in the Rockies.

        Speaking of gardens, I assume you heard of a “Hope Garden”? It’s a very moving story about what they represent, and not just the Hope monument. Its part of my Lander solve. The Bighorn solve revolves around the medicine wheel, the most famous (and unique) one in the USA. I have to wonder if FF has a Hope Garden, and if he ever meditated and/or seek herbal medicine during his treatment.

        I’m going off topic lol…

    • The above stated and accepted fact that the treasure is at least 8.25 miles north of santa fe should be correctly stated as “at least 66,000 links” north of santa fe. The conversion from this ff statement into miles by the chain method is poppycock imo.

      • Ron the comment was actually ” more than” ~ anyways, the calculation was done off of fenn’s survey numbers to be more than 8.25 miles. However, in the fundamental Guidelines section above, fenn used 8.25 in is own words… so before using language such as “Poppycock” double check the resources available to you.
        **The treasure is hidden more than 8.25 miles north of the northern limits of Santa Fe, New Mexico.**

      • This is a comment to our “seasoned” (sage) searchers. I am like so confused again. Surprise, surprise.

        This is a direct quote from Dal’s “Tips from Forrest ” page:

        13. HE DIDN’T SAY, “THE TREASURE IS MORE THAN 8.25 MILES NORTH OF SANTA FE.”
        Forrest actually said something else over on Richard Saunier’s blog: “The Treasure chest is full of gold and precious jewels and is more than 66,000 links north of Santa Fe.” and we know that a link is 1/100th of a chain and a chain is 66 feet. So:

        100 links = 1 chain
        66,000 links = 660 chains (66,000 ÷ 100)
        1 chain = 66 feet
        660 chains = 43560 feet (660 x 66) = 8.25 miles”

        So we seem to have a contraction of sorts. My question is how did we arrive at 1 chain = 66 feet?

        Comments please.

          • Lugnutz, sorry for not responding sooner but I was with family all afternoon.

            Anyway, thank you very much for the links. They are very helpful and much appreciated.

        • LOL Pinatubocharlie… It’s all about timing.
          Fenn throws out comments on blogs, interviews, etc. etc. so at one time the search community only knew of a particular quote or comment.

          However, later, after all us brainiacs dissect “one” comment, fenn kicks us another, which now might imply what we thought might be correct or completely wrong.

          The comment you posted is correct at THAT time, and to what fenn stated about the 66,000 link. But since then fenn himself has used the 8.25 miles in other comments.

          This is why ***{ [ IMO ] } *** folks can’t jump to any real conclusion from just a single comment. Look at as many as you can find over the last 6 plus years and come to your own conclusion.

          I’ll add JCM did a great job doing just that… it might save some time to check his work out.

          • Seeker,

            Thank you for your considerate response. I guess that one fell thru the crack while drinking from the Fenn/Dal fire hose I menionted in my first or second post.

            Take care.

  43. WyMustIGo—-

    That is a distinct possibility. I had often thought the HOB could possibly be somewhere other than the Rockies. As you stated, there is nothing which limits the clues to all fall within one area. The first clue could be in outer space for all we know. Doesn’t Gemini mean “the twins”?

    It would make it far more difficult, but the poem has not been solved after six years, so who knows? Good point IMO.

  44. WyMustIGo quoted FF’s well-known statement::

    “What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve. ff”
    ——————————————————————————————–
    Subsequent to WyMustIGo’s reference above, one poster posted an accepted “fact” the opposite of which would be a distinct possibility of what FF was actually referring to.

    It’s amazing to me how conventional some posters are … without even realizing it.

    Ken (in Texas)

      • Go back and read one of the comments by OS2. There’s a huge assumption there, that’s accepted as fact by almost everyone. Maybe it’s wrong; maybe FF was referring to something else, as implied in his quoted statement.

        It’s those searcher assumptions that everyone takes for granted, the opposite of one of which is likely the “important possibility related to the winning solve”.

        • Hi Ken, Just curious, I’d like to know what assumption you think I made but stated as “fact’, — not that assumptions are necessarily not factual, but I clearly stated “IMO” in both posts, and gave what I think are logical examples of how ff could have conveyed his meaning of warm-waters to searchers. I think it is well understood that everything on these blogs is ‘opinion’’ until confirmed by ff, or, by possession of the TC. Even Fenn gave himself 15% fudge room. But if you are going to call-out ‘wrong’ its only right that you explain why. If i’m making ‘facts’ out of my my assumptions, I will happily retract or restate. I have no intention to mislead, and retraction has never been a bridge-to-far for me. I like to learn, and appreciate people who teach me. OS2

          • Hi OS2 … You did nothing wrong in your quote; you clearly said it was your opinion.

            My quibble is with the assumption that almost everyone takes as a “fact”.

            FF has said searchers need to know “where to start”. But here’s your statement in your July 18th response that began with: “Exactly …” You said: “You need to know where to start”. Yes. But then you proceeded to talk about Santa Fe and other locations.

            My point is that you, and almost everyone else has assumed something that “may” not be what FF intended.

            Consider the phrase: “where to start”. Think very carefully what that phrase might mean that is different from the implication of your comment … in view of FF’s advice, which may be more opaque than what searchers seem to think..

            Ken 🙂

          • Well, Ken, this is gonna take some writing and that’s gonna make my brevity muse uncomfortable. I assume … because you did not state… that you mean the ‘start’ place ff advises us to find first, is a cognitive venue, not a geographic one. That it’s an idea, or a place in the poem or book, Right? Why didn’t you say so? If so…

            I have previously stated that i think the poem is circular & the stanzas work like a paddlewheel on a streamside mill. Repeated cycles (readings) lead me to a ‘start place’, stanza 5, where WHY is a foundational clue, MUST is an imperative, and ‘I’ is a curious & important unknown. Who the heck is “I”?

            I think “I” may be a different being on different revolutions of the wheel. Some call the scheme layered. On the first revolution “I” may be the author referencing that inescapable go-to place, death. On the second pass, “I” may be the stream referencing it’s inescapable go-to, gravity. Both may wish for other options, but both MUST GO, and both will leave their troves behind. Troves? Use your imagination… accumulations of gold, flotsam & jetsam, history? On another revolution… “I” may be the hunter, driven by the lure of treasure, or puzzle. Each complete cycle is a story. The word, MUST GO is so compelling…IMO it must be the start place, But my opinion is nothing more than a disappearing footprint in the shifting sands of time. Good Luck, I gotta go to the Women’s March in the morning. OS2

  45. Like all the names. Has anyone traveled through New Orleans Louisiana on one of there solve trails? There are some very different things going on in this poem. Anyone?

  46. i have been listening to an audio-book everyday for the last couple of months. this book contains every word in forrests poem except two, tarry scant. i have three solves complete that all start at the same place and travel the same route. i have since developed a fourth solve taking into account the double omegas making the beginning both wwwh and the blaze. there is even a description of a place that absolutely mirrors the contents of the chest, emeralds, rubies, diamonds, sapphires, turquoise and gold. i jokingly refer to this as the rosetta stone of the fenn language. do i know where x marks the spot, no i do not. it is my opinion you have to search the area once there, remember…. no-one is going to stumble upon it. i would strongly suggest everyone serious about finding the chest find this audio-book.

        • That’s cool, …FF likes to make up words too!

          (If my name was Gary I would so use a pic of the snail from Spongebob as my avatar!).

          • hahaha. based upon your knowledge you should have a good giggle to know my middle name is patrick

      • i’m quite sure that R.S would’ve used the word ‘scant’ somewhere in his book too ken – think about it.

        ( ..drinking cider again huh?)
        🙂

        • tbh, it’s NOT the pear nectar, ken ..trust me

          it’s def the R.S influence! ..quickly, stop watching his 28hour work-out videos – I’m quite sure you’ll be just fine… after 12 years of intensive therapy 🙂

          ( ..although, prob (def) longer, in your particular case)
          🙂

    • Are you asking us to guess what book you are talking about? I guess “Lord Of The Flies” but I doubt that’s what’s it.

      Your post intrigues me because I just very recently used the Rosetta analogy for my own attempt at decoding the poem.

  47. Has anyone else considered that several of the clues might be the same place. I would think this may explain how some have gotten the beginning clues but went past the treasure, as well as explain how one could be more confident that their locations are the correct ones.

    i.e. clues 3, 4 and 5 might be able to be solved as near each other in many places in the RM, but perhaps there is a place where these several clues are all in reference to the same location.

    While many might look at this particular place as ” HoB” and keep moving on to no place for the meek and then to the end ever drawing nigh. Whereas the correct solve may be that HoB is no place for the meek and there are train tracks that end there, or something similar.

    • HumblePi – If the clues work for you in one place – go for it!
      For me, all of the clues are linear, but not in a straight line, and cover about 20 miles – but that is just me and MY solve. JDA

    • HumblePi , I think the same way in interpretation. I think there are 3 specific locations in the area and there are 3 clues pertaining to each of the 3 specific locations. With this I have confidently 8 of 9 of the clues. The final one I don’t believe I can armchair it though maybe possible if I find it in a picture someone has posted online of “it” from the area. From 1 through 8 it is only 30 minutes driving and 30 minutes walking there after if measured in straight line easy driving and walking (If I was to draw 1-8 it would be more of a Z). I have read all I can on forest here and everywhere I can find of what he said. When I saw something and it triggered my memory of a FF quote , “What is wrong with me just riding my bike out there and throwing it in the “water high” when I am through with it? “I was floored! That was my affirmative # 8 being a 2 0f 3 of 1 of the 3 locations on site. I was never going to go and search but now I have decided if I can I will this summer. I will just fly and drive there. I can do it in one afternoon and try for a couple of days. I agree with how you think ,glad to see someone else does too.

  48. I meant Forrest not forest. I live in Canada so it I would have to fly about 6 hours . I could stay the weekend and search the area easily in 1 afternoon each day I meant.

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