Jenny Kile’s Questions…


Jenny Kile is a self proclaimed puzzle enthusiast and has a wonderful blog called Mysterious Writings where folks write about the mysteries of the universe and Jenny poses questions to people with answers. Some of her blog is devoted to various puzzles and quests and treasure hunts. One section is devoted to The Thrill of the Chase and a subsection is called Questions With Fenn. Here, Forrest answers questions posed by her readers. Wonderful questions…sometimes mystifying answers.

Her blog is here: Questions With Fenn

This is a place we can discuss his “mysterious” answers.

241 thoughts on “Jenny Kile’s Questions…

  1. “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. f

    It always comes back to the first clue doesn’t it?

  2. For those hoping to get “rich” and even those with other motivations, overestimating the human imagination would take you -past- the treasure. Seems like that could be true for a “few” searchers and perceived as a personal message by many, many, many more.

    PS. Would be honored to go trout fishing soon!

  3. I would imagine this will be the most imaginative random words that Forrest ever gives, but I don’t expect to get rich by saying that.

  4. Does ff mean that if we estimate (put money on it) our imagaination as great, vast, yuuuge, we might lose our money? What is he saying?

  5. I think he’s saying that a lot of the searchers who are positive that they
    have the correct solution, but have read too much into his books are only
    fooling themselves and will find this out for themselves when the weather is better. Just IMO


    • Thanks for the link Spallies. I sometimes forget to look at Jenny’s site for words from Forrest and I do enjoy reading what he has to say. This time it sounds like he’s telling us to stay by our little fire for now. 🙂

  6. I like Fenn’s newest over @ Jenny’s….more debate about photo shopping. The only “manipulating” going on is in our own minds. This Chase has been a fantastic life study about the human mind…and how it sees and interprets things…and then what we turn it into for our own purposes. That in itself would be a great book subject….

  7. This new post at MW 3/22/17…

    Here is the update that I have been hoping to see.

    Forrest may not feel like there is a comfortable way to update his, “within 500 feet,” and, “within 200 feet,” comments (that are rather dated) but he is a very, very creative and deep thinking man.

    “I think the gold -will again- become alert to the tromp and -vibrations- of hiking boots.” says it all.

    Thank you Forrest!
    Thank you Jenny for hosting this update (and -possibly- writing the question)!

    Can’t wait to go trout fishing. Do they bite when the water is warm? How about very very warm?

    • I wonder how much fun it is when your solve goes “POOF”.
      I had sent him a video of where I think it is & now i know that goes bye bye.

      Gonna start from scratch again.

      • But of course, Goofy….I fully intend to!! 🙂

        Looks like to me he is saying to look at the map and plot your course before leaving :

        “but before you go, look at the poem as if it were a map, because it is, and like any other map, it will show you where to go if you follow its directions.”

      • How can you go to the trees “where the box is,” if you don’t know where you’re going?

        He just told us the poem is the map that will tell you where the treasure is…if you follow the instructions.

        You can have the right and good map before you even get up from your “arm chair.” 🙂


        Oh and “iota” = “I outta” 🙂

      • The poem has always been a map in my mind… the question still remains… what “details” do we need?

        Lets take some of what we know;
        Geography might help { land?}.
        GE..which in my mind is more about satellite “real imaging” {GE “and/or” a good map.}
        All the information to find the chest is in the poem.
        Certainty beforehand… warned the path would not be direct except for the one who…
        How many clues @ home? All of them, in theory… { but not practical if you actually want to retrieve }.
        The finder will go right to the chest.
        Was thinking about centuries down the road.

        So, what don’t we have?
        Do “all” the clues refer to places and IF not, is a clue that is not a place have anything to do with one or more of the places?

        Example… is there a distance needed to be traveled from wwwh into a canyon to the hoB and the place for no meekies? Or do we {searchers} even have to go into a canyon?
        The clues are contiguous. { think this might help to the scale of the search } But now I have to wonder what exactly is the “big picture” and what I that “Important possibility” that nobody has seem to not mention to fenn?

        By the way Loco… I really liked your Q&A…

      • Hi Goofy: I think the armchair folks will revel in this Q/A. (I consider myself first and foremost in the armchair category, even though I’ve been out searching multiple times. 😉 Beating a dead horse but the clues are in the poem and the answers are found on maps. No need to add ” in my opinion” because it’s a direct statement from Forrest. It probably frustrates Forrest how daft some searchers are, including “Outta Here”. Maybe Forrest will go atomic at some point and say the keyword is [redacted] you idiots!! 😉

        • So the keyword is ‘redacted’ thanks I had already found it but I was not sure, lol…
          C’mon Zap, I don’t think Forrest is that arrogant and he knew exactly how ‘daft’ we are.
          The keyword you say you found on the first stanza, is it one word only or is it two in one? You said you are not using anagrams, how about homophones?

        • Oz10 — I was just trying to inject some levity into the situation. As exemplified by his response to “Outta Here”, Forrest is too polite to respond in the manner of my tongue-in-cheek fictional outburst. As for my keyword, I feel I’ve written too much about it already.

          • Ok zap. I was only confused with your description of the word that is key that you found which it seems to also be your first clue and that will not match ff statement.

          • Hi Oz10 — I don’t follow. Which ff statement are you referring to that my first clue assumption doesn’t match?

          • Zap, still talking about the same comment: …many are giving serious thought to the clues, but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.

            If you say that the word/key found in the 1st stanza is also the first clue then, at least to me, it doesn’t connect with his comment.

          • Oz10,
            It seems to make sense if you add… searchers ignore the first clue, or don’t dwell enough on the first clue, go back to the first clue, and need to nail down the first clue comments.

            Now take into consideration that the searchers who indicated the first clue{s} didn’t know it… ya might just have the word that is key being involved with the most important clue that kicks starts it all.

          • Yes, it will make sense if ff had said that but he didn’t, at least in this instance. He could’ve said many are giving serious thought to the clues, but only a few are in tight focus with that first clue that is key. He made a distinction of thinking about the clues and being in focus with a {(-word-)}, that is why I think it must be a word in the poem.

            Now, if you say to me, the word that is key is ‘riches’. Think about that word, its different meanings and how it relates to new and old, and within the context of the stanza. Once you figure that out, that is your first clue and that will make you understand what your second clue (wwh) is and so on…

            Then that will make sense, if that one word, in this example ‘riches’ a word in the poem, and being in tight focus with it uncovered that first clue. Lets say that we found out that the first clue is ‘Richard Brown’, can you also now claim that (riches) is the -word that is key- and also it is the first clue? It doesn’t make sense right? (riches) is never Richard Brown by itself, only with the context of the stanza and a bit of imagination we found what riches was referring to. Take out that word/key from the first stanza and it will be almost impossible to take that context and convert it into Richard Brown, but having -riches- to focus on we now have a possibility in front of us.

            Just in case, this is my opinion and Richard Brown is an example.

          • It is peculiar that out of thousands of people that have searched that nobody is getting this key word right. Apparently if we do get it right though we won’t know it until we find the TC. So that makes it even more obscure.

            Knowing this it sounds like that the people that got the first clues right did it by happenstance. There are a number of places you can start the chase if you are going by WWH being the beginning and some people seem to just possibly randomly pick the right area.

            Because people have got the first few clues and are not getting the word that is key it stands to reason that the word that is key is not what F would consider a clue. Is this other peoples view of this?

          • Aaron, I don’t think we can state that every searcher hasn’t got the correct word that is key yet cause of your correct observation…we won’t know until the tc is found.

            I don’t think the word that is key is a clue but I think it helps unlock one of the important clues.

          • Thanks for the reply fun, it is interesting to learn of everyone else’s process.

            It seems like either A) the key word helps with the starting area and then follow the clues from there or B) the key word helps with all of the clues. If that is the case then it would make sense that the people that F have stated that were on the right track got off track because they didn’t have the word that is key and maybe if they did they would have known where they were.

            Does most peoples key word help with them with the starting area, the clues, or both?

          • Oz10 and others following along — I guess I don’t see a problem with the first clue ALSO being Forrest’s “word that is key.” Does Forrest count it as a clue? Maybe, maybe not. But by his definition, a “hint” only helps you with a clue, while a clue brings you closer to the chest. Since my key word most certainly focuses my search on a much smaller geographic area than the entirety of the four-state region, then it seems to me it would qualify as a clue. It also precedes all other clues in the poem, and without it you cannot confidently identify the correct WWWH (although a few might still guess it).

        • Exactly Seeker, only the first two clues are on a map. And lots of searchers have solved the first two clues and been close to the treasure, but went past the other seven.

          I have old maps, new maps, historic trail maps; I have an extensive set of very detailed topo maps with satellite and GIS overlays (I use them for work) that I have purchased. The solution is not on those maps. The poem doesn’t tell us what to look for on a map, the poem is the map. All we have to do is get to the location of the first two clues and with our imagination match the geographical features in the poem to the landscape we see in front of us. Once we do that we can go straight to the treasure with confidence and wonder to ourselves what took so long.

          This makes solving the poem extraordinarily difficult, simple with no subterfuge does not mean easy. This is the only way I can make all his statements true.

          I know this makes all you armchair searchers go atomic. But his statements are clear, he has told us how to solve the poem.

          Just my opinion.

          • Hey Goofy, since you have a collection of maps and use them for work, you may be ahead of most of us in this field. Have you tried to read the poem (or parts of it) as a description of a map to use? does anything in the poem stands out from that perspective?
            Instead of clues to locations, maybe hints to maps?

          • Yes Oz I’ve tried to look at the poem that way, but haven’t been able to get a complete solution doing that. There are some really interesting maps a person can find; but I try to reframe from getting off on tangents by asking myself is this something a regular person with no specialized knowledge could come up with.

            If I come up with a solution or a method of finding a solution that I can shoot down with one of Fenn’s comments, then I have to accept I’m on the wrong track, no matter how perfect some of the clues seem to fit.

            What I’ve described to Seeker is the only method I can come up with that makes all of Fenn’s statements true without doing Olympic level mental gymnastics twisting his statements to a ridiculous level.

          • Good to know thanks. I just had that thought with the ‘look at the poem as a map’ statement. Since no specialized knowledge is needed I guess we can assume that the place could be found with any map. I mean, we can just walk into a 7-11 and buy those fold out maps to find the starting point. That is what a redneck from Texas will do, no need for GPS, Google earth, etc…

        • Goofy~ “The poem doesn’t tell us what to look for on a map, the poem is the map. All we have to do is get to the location of the first two clues and with our imagination match the geographical features in the poem to the landscape we see in front of us.”

          { I’m going to try and word this carefully, so I’ll use Caps on certain words }

          While I agree with your statement… I don’t agree that imagination is needed to locate the CLUES. Because, there is a difference between locating and UNDERSTANDING.

          Fenn has said The CLUES can be …IMO… done at home… but practicality says you have to be there { to FIND the chest}. If all this is, is locating a clue, then another, then another… the poem seems to get harder as we travel… Because fenn feels those with the clues {even up to the first four} didn’t know.

          Something is still missing… I think it’s more than likely the clues need to be used/utilized to “FIND” the chest and not JUST LOCATE the geographical features of a clue’s reference. It just doesn’t make sense that searchers have indicated, decipher clues and not known or able to go on to the correct SPOT of the chest. Unless, something is needed to be done with or understood about all the clues or at least many of the clues…

          The RM’s are still moving… in a thousand years it will be harder to located the chest.
          Does that really sound like a marker/blaze simply is in place on top or next to the chest? If things { land / land features / CLUES move even a few inches over a long period of time… what gets knocked out of wack?
          IMO it’s not a single marker location. So in theory… could the blaze be an alignment tool, with other clues and points to the chest’s 10″ sq spot?

          The clues seem to be able to be solved at home… but in practicality one needs to be there to SEE / FIND the chest’s spot… “retrieve” is not finding… that’s the act of taking it from it’s spot {kinda like found vs discover}. IMO that is why fenn used the word, “retrieve” the chest before notifying the chest is no longer were he placed it.

          I’m not saying we don’t need some imagination to locate clues… but I think locating is only part of the solution. “…follow its- {poem} directions.”
          Lead; to go in a particular direction… or to ‘allow’ or ’cause this’…

          • IMO. It’s about finding the right starting point. Then putting the clues in order. Just because people have solved the first two clues and been within 200 ft. Doesn’t mean they had the right starting point. The correct starting point is not BOTG. It’s the poem.

          • Common people give up on the armchair.

            But if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure. f

            Time to go see if I’m right about the first 2 clues and then follow the poem 🙂

          • For me I think what is missing is the starting point, or area, or first clue. This seems to be the most important clue. You can marry these clues to the map in numerous locations. People are confident about their solves all over the place so they cannot all have the first clue, or general area right.

          • Aaron: you are absolutely right. If someone doesn’t have the first clue figured out with reasonable certainty, I believe they are wasting their time. As Forrest has suggested, if you don’t have that first clue nailed down, you might as well play Canasta.

            The starting point is anything but unambiguous, IMO. When you’ve got it, you know it.

          • Perhaps the missing is the linking of the two. A telescope can be used but eyes of the mind are required to find.

          • Randy,
            I think your right about the starting point…
            Fenn’s two comments {Paraphrasing}
            Need to know where to start.
            Need to start at the beginning.

            Is that what’s missing?
            So how does that help if correct? I mean, if all it does is get a searcher to the area of the clues… that’s been done… searchers have been on location and deciphered/indicated/told fenn the first two clues. That “right location thought” doesn’t seem too important as much as understanding the clues.

            So what other reason is there for Knowing where to start and need to start at the beginning?

            My one thought is of Little Indy or anyone else “can not get closer” than the first two clues… this might be implying that the chest itself is very near, even if the descriptions in the poem seem farther along or apart.

            hmm! just now a thought popped in my head… whatIF wwwHalt doesn’t mean stop or change in direction, or merging hot to cold… but separates it’s self or separated by something.

            Sorry…the mind is always going.

          • Seeker;

            You may not like me responding to your post, but I have to agree with everything that you said. Just solving the clues is not enough, the successful searcher will have to UNDERSTAND what those clues are POINTING to. JDA

          • JDA,
            I’m gonna put this straight out there… I don’t care if you respond to my posting… I encourage that. I want folks to tear up, chew to pieces my thoughts and ideas and buck-heads with a good debate/point of veiw of the information we have… so I don’t go off half cock on some wild-tangent game.

            What I can’t stand the whining and temper tantrums BS, and know for a fact attitudes and comments. But my biggest pet peeve… hiding behind “I know for a fact” with three letters I-m-o.

            But, I’m a honest and fair guy and will say… I do tend to be a bit short on temper when it comes to that crap… You and I have two different personality that just clash.
            I can and have been civil… but I have a short fuse for factual sayers with no facts to back it up.

            I’m only looking for conversations / theories of / ideas from searchers on information that has been presented to the search by fenn.

            So if you want to comment on one of my post… go right ahead… but there is no need to start your response with; “You may not like me responding to your post,..” its childish and unnecessary.

          • Seeker;

            Thanks for your response. I appreciate it.

            I have to agree with your recent posts, I can find no fault with what you have had to say.

            Yes, we do have different personalities, and we have clashed in the past. Hopefully those days are behind us.


          • JDA,

            I hold no hard feeling… even though I admit I’m hard headed, I’m an easy going person with sandpaper skin. If ya rub me wrong it will hurt.

            The past is the past.

        • Seeker, don’t mind me I just found a great WWH in Mississippi. My -attention deficit disorder- gives me great flexibility…

  8. Fenn’s own words…basically…the poem is a map. So, the poem is the right map…right.? Here we go ! Yippeee !

  9. It all seems pretty direct to me – Get out of your armchair – Use the poem as a map, because it is one – GO GET THE TREASURE! – Pretty direct – Now if we only knew how to interpret the WORDS onto a MAP – HUMMMM JDA

  10. “if you follow its directions”

    So, what are the directions?
    Do we start where it says to begin?
    Do we stop the quest when it says to cease?

    I certainly think so & follow the directions & path in between.

    • No takers?
      Maybe someone could just lie to me & agree to what I said to make me feel not so alone. 🙁

        • Yes Alsetenash, the double Omegas.
          That’s what I’m talking about.
          Now, if I could get a lurker, hiding behind their computer to come out & admit their insanity as us, then I have done my job.

          • Jake. After a bit of time now, IMO ,I have a strong idea of his use of the double omega. It just came to me in a moment of realization-bear with me for I am odd. It is not wise for me to say my thesis in points but I can say it theoretically. The only way for me to test my thesis is with my solve involved. I ask my self-‘ Can this idea apply without it adding something to the solve? Does it offer affirmation?’ IMO

            The answer for me is yes. For me , when I conclude something,such as a solve like this, new insights would only affirm but not add additional help in solving. Prior yes, but not at post conclusion of a solve. IMO

            I will say this;: The Omega is the 24th and last letter in the Greek alphabet. There are 24 lines in the poem. Nothing new in thought analysis here, I am sure. Now the Omega is a letter ; the 24th letter. He prints 2 Omegas at the end of each of his books involving the chase.

            Today FF chose the question about nucleus words on MW site. He said :

            I read the poem again and couldn’t find the nucleus you referred to. Can you point it out to me please?f”

            Basically , I think he is making a statement with his questions answer.
            Ok, so Double Omega:
            There are only 9 numbers in the numeric system and in the Greek language there is 24 letters in the alphabet. Looks familiar right? Just draw a line between the Double Omegas is 24/24 and then numerically same 9/9 . Two sides, one Key Word on one side opens up the other side , that shows the literary 9 clues on one side to that other side. IMO.

            I did my best to make sense being vague in substance.

    • Jake- hey its me again, dodo the byrd.
      go back to colters hell. you got the first two directions right and went past the other seven.

      opinion mine.
      i think.
      maybe not.
      oh well.

  11. I’m gonna try it out tomorrow…I mean using the poem as your map. I think it fits my area. I already found what I hope is the correct WWWH (BOTG yesterday) so tomorrow Molly and I will put in below the home of Brown. Yippee…

  12. I don’t mind ‘armchair’ searchers at all. There is certainly nothing wrong with trying to solve a treasure puzzle just for entertainment. But I don’t consider any of them real contenders in finding the chest. JMHO.


    • In the past several “armchair searchers” worked with folks who physically searched in a common area One provided a solution or partial solution while the other provided the eyes and legs and the rest of the solution…

      This works very well when someone not physically able to search but who feels they have figured out the first four clues in the poem for, say a CO location teams up with someone who lives in CO to go out and look around for clues 5-9.

      Their plan of course would be to share the treasure if found..

    • randawg,
      Define “find” for me in your comment… Find the clues and/or what the clues refer to?
      Or Find the chest?

      Fenn seems to have a different meaning to “Find” the treasure vs. “clues” decoded.

      – How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?) 
      FF: All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher *must go* to the site to *find the treasure.*

      There is a difference to solving the clues and finding the chest… in this armchair study’s opinion… and it falls down to fenn’s warning; “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

      • Well Seeker, in my opinion that is a really bad question asked by someone trying to sound more intelligent than they are. Or I’m not reading it correctly.

        The first part of the question ask, “How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home?”

        The second part, (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?)

        in situ:
        adverb, adjective (postpositive)
        1. in the natural, original, or appropriate position
        2. (pathol) (esp of a cancerous growth or tumour) not seen to be spreading from a localized position

        Word Origin and History for in situ
        Latin, literally “in its (original) place or position” (see situate (v.))

        To me this person asked two completely different questions.
        1. How much progress can be made from home.
        2. How many clues have to be solved on location.

        Apparently this person thinks they are asking how many clues can be solved from home.

        So what do you think his answer means? How do you read the question?

        • Goofy,
          I wish the question didn’t have the add on…
          But lets work with what we have. I can’t take this single question and run with it, without looking at other related comments, statements, Q&A’s etc.

          We have an intro with “Follow” and “lead”
          Lead; to allow, “to cause.”
          Situ; Place or “position”

          We have clues that are places, and told the path would not be direct without “certainty beforehand.” And many other comments…

          So, the question does seem to be answered in two parts Yes you can solve the clues at home… but that is only the clues “references”.
          You must be on site to “find” the chest…
          But if the chest is hidden so well it will not be stumble upon {even by a searcher in the correct location} without a complete solution… which seems to have happened many times… what is it we’re not thinking of?

          Do the clues “cause” us to find the chest? “Allow” the clues to be used in someway as to direct us to a piece of land only 10″ sq.
          A method, if you will, like a compass or a sundial or alignment or triangulation, using the clues as such, and not just stomping to locations.

          We have the comment that the chest will be harder to find as time goes on, because of, land movement… if that land / places / clues move over time {even by a few inches or feet}, What gets knocked out of wack?
          What changes the clues and makes it harder to “allow” the clues to lead us, and “cause” us not to find or make harder to find the chest’s 10″ sq hidden spot “precisely”, farther “down the road”?

          IMO, the clues themselves might need to be used/understood/utilized in some manner to “discover” what they do to actually pin point a scant spot.
          If the clues move… the ‘spot’ is harder to locate.

          Another words… using fenn’s Found vs. Discover…
          Evn if you “found” the clues references at home or in the field… we may need to “discover” what they actually are or are used as. { think of walking a straight line by viewing a distant object to keep you in that straight line as you walk through an area, I’m sure you know what I mean.}

          Just like “found the bones” but did not “discover the bone”… type of bones found. A searcher may find a clue reference, but may not understood / discover what it was meant for.

          Yeah, I know… some will say this is over complicating. I say this is analyzing in depth. Over complicating are those who still want to use coded messages, use bibles studies, think the poem is so straight forwards it easy to just stomp over miles of lands and canyons and raft rivers and use horses or ATV or the need to drive from clue to clue… because fenn wanted us out in nature. Well, so far the poem as done its job well. But no chest.

          Is the “important possibility” is to Use the clues?

          Well, that’s my story and I’m sticking with it.

          • Remember that quote about not knowing if the first clue is correct until the treasure is found…? That one aspect haunts me to no end…something very abstract about that statement makes me circle back around every time. Also…if you don’t know where it is…go back to the beginning.Hmmmmm….

          • Hi Seeker – with regards to the Rocky Mountains are changing and moving, I personally think that is related to earthquakes, mudslides, and some of the other natural occurrences f has mentioned in some of his comments. Search the quotes documents for earthquakes, etc and see if that might fit into the picture of the changes over 1000 years scenario, it does for me.

          • ken,
            …not knowing if the first clue is correct until the treasure is found…?

            The obvious thought; if you didn’t find the chest, you didn’t nail down the clue.

            But there are many comments on the first clue;
            Certainty beforehand.
            Didn’t find the chest go back to the first clue.
            Can’t start in the middle of the poem and/or look for later clues.
            “Can not get closer” than the first two clues.
            Not find the chest on spring break or a Sunday picnic.
            etc. etc.
            { I shorten the quotes for typing and space, but i’m sure you get the gist}

            Why can’t we find it on spring break? is that an actual possibility to a hint? Fenn finally came out and said he hid the chest in summer… is this a helpful suggestion?

            Is the chest closer to the first clue or two clues than the others and maybe this is why Little Indy “can not get closer” than the first two clues?
            If we won’t know we have the first clue until we have the chest… is that just common sense or is it that the first clues is much more important than just a place?
            Yet we are told we shouldn’t start in the middle of the poem, example the blaze, or later clues…BUT… if we know what hoB is, why would we be concerned about wwh or apparently canyon down or too far to walk.
            Maybe hoB is the place to start? and the clues are put in below? It is the only stand alone sentence in a stanza, other than stanza 6

            Maybe the important possibility is… begin it where… too far to walk are below hoB.

            Might that change thoughts of, know where to start and start at the beginning and the need to nail down the first clue, make the reading of the poem a specific location and not so much a dart toss of the Many wwh in the RM’s?

            Ok I know the next question… Seeker aren’t ya taking the clues out of order?
            Nope. if the poem can be read as such does that change the consecutive order of the clues?

            Look at stanza 5.
            Look quickly down comma your quest to cease comma But… do something else. Is quest to cease just an add thought to here’s what you need to do look quickly down but tarry scant with marvel gaze… your quest to cease. Just take the chest and go in peace… and if that is ok… why can’t hoB be the starting point where wwh is below it.

            I have entertained many thought on how to read the poem.. but interpretation is very difficult if we take the literal order of placement and not the intended order of understand the interpretation.

            Remember the reading tools/books we used to learn out to read in grade school?
            See Dick, See Spot, See Spot run… are we seeing spot run or seeing Dick see spot run?

          • JCM,
            Take it a step further and look at the geography of the range itself… the up lift and movement of the CD plays a big roll in the big picture line of thinking.
            And takes time for that movements to occur… in 3009 it will be harder… This line of thought is somewhat predictable. We know of this movement and its effects…
            Mudslide, and Flash floods and earth quakes are unpredictable.

            So, to keep the clues as usable 100 or a 1000 years down the road… the predictable scenario might be the more likely thoughts behind the clues with the lesser chance of a major movement.

            But nothing is certain over long periods of time… but to set up land features as clues… that would be my thoughts of down the road. That, and keep the clues closer together and not so much miles and miles apart.

            Just attempting to be rational in thinking.

          • Yes Seeker,
            The many comments on the first clue are my check points for sure…And I admit that I take his comment about starting at the beginning literally. My path/method of interp. is to utilize the poem/map as is written(order from 1st to 6th)…such as a list of instructions. Taken out of order…the front wheel of the tricycle may end up on the left rear….you get the point. The ambiguity of the poem as written reinforces that concept for me. But, I do understand what you are saying about the possibility of HOB being the start point. In fact…in my solve(partial solve) I can actually say that is where the work begins.
            Your “Might that change the thoughts…” is spot on in my scenario. My first clue nails The location and takes the question of WWWH right out of the equation…WWWH is my second clue. From my perspective I understand the “Indie” dilemma at that point because there are some choices to make before moving further into the solve. Folks have spoken about the circular solve…and to an extent… that rings true for me. This is a choice issue that is pretty much decided for me, vs. me choosing. I’ve slammed a couple of your posts about interpreting out of order, but really, in my scenario I can do that once I am decided on previous steps/clues. It works as a check and balance.
            Also…your “Obvious thought…” comment about no find /no nail 1st clue…is not accurate for me. For me it means I made a bad choice further along because of the path choices.
            So… My original comment above comes from reading your discover/found comment…It rang a bell because of the “certainty beforehand” statement. You put words to what was in the back of my mind and the issue of discovery and retrieval, and how that leads to a speck in the dirt….

          • Seeker – you said:

            ‘Why can’t we find it on spring break? is that an actual possibility to a hint? Fenn finally came out and said he hid the chest in summer… is this a helpful suggestion?’

            Forrest did say in one comment that was spoken in the month of March of some few years ago that no one is gong to find the chest tomorrow. One of those small things that doesn’t seem to say much, but plenty to to the observer paying attention and thinking.

            If my search area is accessible in the month of March, I don’t expect that I will find the chest there.

      • “Define “find” for me in your comment…”

        I mean to locate where the chest is and bring it home.
        I will add something else for you to ponder. When Fenn says: “A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.” I think he structured the clues to unfold in a very specific way on site; And I don’t believe he had the intention nor expectation for the chest to be discovered on the first (or second, or third) search once the correct area is located.


        • randawg ~ “I think he structured the clues to unfold in a very specific way on site;”
          Yep…lol… no if we only knew what that specific way was, we be golden.

          I too think the poem was designed to make us fail at first… a type of security system that only allows the the one who understand the blueprint of the poem to locate the chest…{ in the manner fenn designed it to be found }

          But I wouldn’t rule out an armchair analyzing searcher to discover that designed… The challenge might come down the winning solve as… vacationers Vs. reasoner

          • Perhaps make us fail at first? Lesson learned, like buying a painting from friendly hustlers from back east. Never make that mistake again. He may of thought of everything but the unexplainable, like a gremlin, some abnormalities just can’t be explained or planned for. Perhaps why a child might have an advantage. They’re minds haven’t been programmed or corrupted by greed, porn, unsavory characters and events. They look you straight in the eye unless they are embarrassed or ashamed of something.
            The little things are important, like trust and honesty, especially when no one is watching. Someone will find the way and know the effort was worth the cold. Which might not be one iota what it sounds like. And IMO you can 100% trust where it begins, for this I am certain. Just be prepared to turn a cheek and share the good fortune with those who are most impressionable and deserve a good break.

          • LoL…A child’s mind not corrupted by greed, porn, unsavory characters..
            How young is this child??

  13. The poem is a map.

    Identify a word that is key in the poem, which tells you where to start .

    Once you have the starting location, follow the directions in the poem as if it were a map

    You don’t even need to know what wwwh or home of Brown are as long as you identify the correct starting place.

    Also the poem can be solved from your arm chair because if you correctly identify the starting point, you can then look on GE and follow the directions of the poem to the location.

    You will, however, need to go to that location to retrieve the treasure chest

  14. You are very insightful Ramona. I think we all use GE to research the clues. The most anyone can achieve from home is a hypothesis. Since the poem is not really solved until the chest is retrieved, it’s impossible for one to solve the poem from their armchair.

  15. Regarding Fenn’s answer on Jenny’s site a couple days ago, “but before you go, look at the poem as if it were a map, because it is, and like any other map, it will show you where to go if you follow its directions.” I mentioned I was going to go to my search area yesterday and try it out…I mean using the poem as the map. You can all breathe a sigh of relief because I did not find the treasure chest, yet. At least 3/4ths of you weren’t worried anyway, right? Just wanted to give a quick update: I had two places for hoB using the same WWWH and “take it in the canyon down,” and “not far, but too far to walk.” So next is “put in” which I think means crossing a stream. One of my choices used a footbridge and the other choice higher up the canyon (closer to WWWH) meant at this particular hoB you had to cross the stream on a log, or wade, or find a stepping stone, etc. It was not wide here and even with all the rushing water from the snow melt, it was doable. The problem was SNOW, SNOW, SNOW. Both areas where I put in and then where “From there it’s no place for the meek”, (which to me is where you leave the trail, road, human path) Molly and I bushwhacked through the forest was mostly not doable. We tried walking across the top of snow banks and drifts but I fell through up to my snatch. At this point, I decided to wait a couple more weeks to continue my search. But, the clearing where one of the hoBs was located was beautiful. Molly and I climbed to the top of a small knoll situated on top an old mining claim there. The vista was awesome…we were in a canyon surrounded by forest with an alpine peak above tree level sticking out above in the distance. We could hear the stream babbling and stellar’s jays hollering, butterflies were all around, the grass was green with dandelions poking through here and there. We went home empty handed but filled with pleasant memories. We shall return there again the end of May. (Ramona, if you read this, I’m working on the video. Thanks for your kind words a couple days ago.)

  16. Interesting Q&A in my mind; others may not agree, but my take is the same as fenn’s comment [ in part ] “Although I am not ready to say the treasure is not in water, I certainly didn’t want moisture to enter the jar.”
    IMO. No water grave, No anagrams.
    What say you?

    Forrest, many people entertain themselves by anagramming words, would you consider this just tomfoolery?
    Thanks for everything Forrest…..loco
    If someone is entertained by anagramming words I will not say it is tomfoolery.f

    • I think the reply left the issue wide open. There was no squashing of anagrams there.

      Loco was wise to word it like he did to allow Forrest as much wiggle room as he wanted to take.

      Anagrams never lie. They are like pen-doodles that reflect what a person is thinking at the time. The solve might come by means of anagrams even if they weren’t purposely planted in the poem.

    • Hi Seeker — no mention of the poem or the Chase in Loco’s question or Forrest’s answer, so I would caution reading too much into it. That said, I think Forrest provided the answer to ~your~ question in his succinct reply containing some tomfoolery of his own.

    • Interesting, is it not, Seeker, the number of people who still entertain themselves with anagrams, after all this time??

      (oh yeah…. you gotta invite to walk on the wild side…..over at Harry’s!)

        • LOL!! Seeker, I had forgotten that I posted to you. Not sure which statement your reply is directed at(maybe both??)?

          But in case it ya got the wrong idea about my statement above, or the Q&A at Jenny’s, I do not consider anagramming as a viable method in any form or fashion! 🙂

  17. Hi Forrest, we are now aware that the poem is a map. If the poem is a map and will tell us exactly where to go, why couldn’t the little girl from India get past the first two clues? I think it’s because after solving all nine clues from home, the ocean prevents her from journeying to the precise location to retrieve the treasure chest. ~ Lagerta the Bold

    Dear Whoever Asked This Question,

    Thanks for answering it for me. f

    Say whut???

    • Hi pdenver — I was just about to post that link. Anyone whose solve is in the desert: kaboom! Forrest just killed it.

          • Have to love starting from scratch. I’m in the same boat. My studies and searches have not gone for naught. I’ve seen things I thought I’d never get to see, or accomplish what I did.

          • You don’t have to miss it SL.
            You can always go there but don’t expect to find the treasure.

          • pdenver,

            Without a doubt; your attitude mirrors mine to a tee.

            Can’t believe what I was missing by putting my ‘boots on top of the clouds’…..instead of on the ground.

            But then….I would have always longed for the sky.

          • “It’s only real if you think it is”
            Yup, that’s another original quote.
            According to Google anyway.

    • f’s latest answer is great advice that f gives and especially relevant to those not familiar and experienced with the mountains.

      Three main take-a ways as related to finding the chest:

      “Please don’t ever overextend yourself. I was 80 or about when I hid the treasure and it was not a difficult task. I will soon be 87 and I could go back and get it if I were so inclined, I think.”

      “You don’t have to move big rocks, or scale a precipice to get to the treasure. Stay away from dangerous terrain.”

      “If your solve is in the desert, get a new solve, and remember, much of the Rio Grande River is not in the Rocky Mountains.”

      I am not sure that first one will still be good enough for some to officially settle the recent discussions and opinions expressed over the last month. I await with interest the spins and rationalizations that almost 10% of a persons life fits into the constraints of the word ‘about’? 🙂

      Then there are the synonyms for about…
      synonyms: near, nearby, around, hereabouts, not far (off/away), close by, in the vicinity, in the neighborhood

      Also interesting…

  18. I am curious to know why it is important to know exactly how old Mr. Fenn was when he hid the treasure. About 80? About face – do a 180, turn around.

    • Simple answer lifesablaze.
      The older you get, the less ground you can travel.
      Does this work for you or do you defy gravity & age?

        • A good tell by F today.
          “I will soon be 87 and I could go back and get it if I were so inclined, I think.”

          I would have to think it’s a mild hike, scenic & with lots wildlife with some wild flowers sprung. 3 miles max but put a cap on rough terrain.

          Let’s not forget about sage.

          • “So inclined” – a south facing inclination?
            Fits perfectly within my solve very near where the blaze is.
            There are cliffs all around except this one spot.

          • Jake – It’s apparent that you want to eat your hat. It’s highly probable that you will get your wish this search season. If the chest is found, you can’t back out or can you? No key for you.

    • I think it may be more important to know that he has said he hid the treasure at two different times seven years apart.

  19. I have learned, the hard way, to consider my level of risk tolerance when out on adventures. Typically for any adventure I will either be alone or with one other person. You can start out a day with safe behavior in mind, and then as the day moves along and situations change you might tend to let your risk tolerance creep further and further away from safe behaviors. And when nothing bad happens it tends to reinforce that unsafe act. I am more inclined to that when alone.

    On my searches I have crossed the line several times and done some stupid things, knowing better all along. One such situation is when your target destination doesn’t have a clear path and you start choosing a best path. At some point you find yourself with the dilemma of going a short but dangerous route or retracing your steps and trying something different and probably safer. Time is slipping away, you have made many sacrifices to be at that place at that time, and losing precious hours by wandering around will start to affect your judgement. The next thing you know you are scaling that precipice that Forrest warns against.

    I only have one more search trip left , I will retrace previous safe steps.
    But I hope anyone reading this will not rationalize dumb risks like I have shown a tendency for. Plan, prepare for any situation, don’t let a safety mindset drift away as a day unfolds. Stop and re-group if you find yourself unprepared for a situation.

    My 1660 mile drive presents my biggest risk, so please be careful on the highway as well.

    • Live & learn Meadowlark.
      Oh, listen to the man that wrote the poem.
      It could save your life if you don’t.

  20. Re: The 07/05/17 question: Do You Remember?

    I found similar African dolls online that were made in the 20th century for the tourist trade. Mr Fenn may have sold some African dolls but he sounds a little ‘underwhelmed’ by this example. His passion is obviously in native American objects that are of greater age and importance.

    And then he could simply be saying that he sold lots of things in his gallery and can’t be expected to remember them all…


  21. * ~ “To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f ” (posted 6/5/2017)

    What was missing from the poem at the time of the hiding of the chest?

    There are many meanings/usage of follow, complete, completed… example; Follow can mean observe, happen in a pattern. Complete can mean necessary parts. Completed can mean make whole. Yet, we have “before [the poem] was”, as qualifiers without absolute, meaning a missing variable.

    We have been told to think, analyze, Plan and Observe… Can we [ the searchers ] actually complete the poem’s clues prior to being on site [in theory] and know exactly [ precisely ] the location of the chest, or is it needed to be on site to finish/have all the parts/observe the clues that “lead” to the chest?
    “Lead” and “Follow” are words of understanding/showing/explaining… understanding how to do something with the information given… simple examples are; following instructions or lead to a conclusion.

    Are the clues only physical features to find and walk to [stomping] or are we to utilize the clues, in some form, to make known the place the chest lays in wait?… Another words… Did fenn have to do something on site [that we must also do] to complete the the poem’s directions?

    My example is… observing an event that will show the location of a hidden spot. An event that completes the poem/clues, and only finalizes the poem at that time and location. My reference to the thought is; “…The Rocky mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3,009 it will be more difficult…”

    • Thanks for the post Seeker;

      A lot to think about. Most poignant is your last paragraph: ” observing an event that will show the location of a hidden spot. An event that completes the poem/clues, and only finalizes the poem at that time and location. My reference to the thought is; “…The Rocky mountains are still moving and associated physical changes will surely have an impact. If you are in the year 3,009 it will be more difficult…” I ThiMk (as close to ThiNking as I can come) that I know what to look for, and where to look, so that the “Event that completes the poem” can be successful. Yes, the Rockies are still moving, and that could have an effect – we shall see. Thanks – JDA

    • Oh yeah…forgot to comment on Seeker’s post here from 8/25/17…his(seekers) first ideas about “lead” and “follow” and “What was missing…hiding of the chest.
      Another way of interpreting what Fenn was saying “…although I hid it before the poem was completed.”. He(Fenn) was done hiding the treasure before the end of the poem. The point to ponder here may be…at what point in the poem was the deed done(complete)?
      In terms of identifying/observing a particular event to indicate/point to the location of a “hidden spot”, seems overly complicated and not likely given the unpredictable conditions that mother nature lashes the Rocky Mts. with.
      I will say that the poem does seem to have a fair amount of “action” in it…so perhaps there is a sort of “task” to perform to complete the directions. Is that “task”…on site…or could one do that from home?
      Good thoughts about the poem.

      • Ken;

        You bring up an interesting point. Stanza’s 5, 6 and 1 “seem” to be either “Hints” or just “Informational clues”.

        The “Directional” clues seem to be in stanza’s 2,3 and 4. Forrest could have written stanza’s 1 – 4, which would be one informational (hint) stanza, along with all of the directions of how to find the TC – Hid it, and then worked on stanza’s 5 and 6, which are “Hints” that will help with the solving of the clues – or are “Informational clues” – depending on how you count “clues” and “Hints” – just misin’ JDA

        • @JDA I get a little bit of Stanza 6 from the last two paragraphs page 100 TTOTC…IMO, maybe I should place this under topic The Book but just jumping in as I found this interesting reading last night….

          • Good one Cholly…I’m not sure about stanza six…but those paragraphs sure smell real good as to “location”.
            They have been important in my “theory” for quite some time.

        • Ken. The meaningful point to me is that he COULD have written the poem before he hid the treasure. That tells me that none of the clues refer to something that was placed there to serve as a clue location.

          • That too is how I read it…but then noticed that he(Fenn) may be indicating, in an off beat way, that he followed the poem as written(considering posts and conversation at that time), and had hidden the treasure before the end of the poem. Just protein for the brain…nothing more.

      • Ken,
        Yep… [ in my assumption of the comment ] ~ The poem was fully written, the way it was presented in the book, at the time of the act of hiding the chest.
        However, the “clues” and what they reference that lead to the chest, finish prior to the end of the poem itself.
        * In short; The 9 clues will “take/lead” you to the chest… Yet… all the “information to find the chest” still remains within the fully worded poem to be “followed” precisely. { thinking along the line with, ingredients and instruction }.

        You said: ~ an event ~ “seems overly complicated and not likely given the unpredictable conditions that mother nature lashes the Rocky Mts. with.”

        So, an ‘event’ such as the solstice, used by many generations around world… from Stonehenge to Pyramids to Medicine wheels etc. are ‘unpredictable conditions’ for an observational tool, usable for an alignment to locate the chest?

        The question I posed was really rhetorical… Nothing was missing from the poem… fenn followed the clue’s references to the hidey spot… But the real question is… How did that process act out… and… how does the remaining sections of the poem tell all about; how it is to be done, exactly?

        So I agree with your pondering; ~ ‘The point to ponder here may be…at what point in the poem was the deed done(complete)?’
        And will add, as I stated above ~ How do the remaining sections tell “all”? { ‘All’ the “information” to find the chest… is in the poem }. No filler stanzas, no intro or summary or epilogue … But, “information” (completed?)

        LOL, thanks for the response Ken, and good thoughts. I forgot about this posting. But it is a very interesting fenn comment in my book.

        • I was away for a bit and was catching up. Your above comment caught my eye…as I have been trying to break down what is what in the poem, and at what point was the deed done.
          I’ve read many of the old posts about possible “event” theories(solstices etc.) and remain NOT convinced that this is viable. Scientists are just now discovering the true nature of Stonehenge and how it was designed and used(to my knowledge they(scientists) do not have a vague poem as reference). Fenn himself admits that the Rockies are moving which will make things more difficult…mix in some super storms and you get my point. The truth is…I just don’t see enough in the poem to set something like that up…”Time” is a difficult and finicky animal to control and measure with complete accuracy without some serious “specialized knowledge”…some folks may be excited to learn that the physical attributes/quantities of time can be used to determine other quantities, and that lends itself to being “circular”.
          As to the rest of the verbiage (not really leftovers)…seems like an awful lot…doesn’t it?

        • “You should not need to look any words up…”

          I don’t know Aaron. I mean, “any word[s]” kinda implies all words, no matter what language.
          This is just an after thought..but.. I wonder if an non-English speaking/ reader wanted to translate the book and poem to attempt the challenge… could it be done exactly / precisely like fenn intended? Or does the book help with more than a couple of hints and aberrations out on the edge?

          Like I said before… I hope “any words” means any ‘Spanish’ words, or Latin or french, or Native American tribal language…
          LOL or I’m gonna need a whole new blackboard and burn the old one.

          • Seeker, most of the questions that FF answers that get posted gives him wiggle room with the answer including this one. He changed words by looking up definitions. That is clear enough for me.

      • Seeker: how do you figure? Forrest said “You should *not* (my emphasis) need to look any words up John.” I don’t know how Forrest could be any more clear: translating from Spanish to English (or English to Spanish) will be of no use in finding the treasure. E.C. Waters probably could have used this info a few years ago. 😉

        • FF~ “I looked up words and definition of words and changed them, went back and rebooted… it [poem] turned out exactly like I wanted.”

          Yep Zap… clear as a bell.

          • “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about… Latin,…will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions…”
            Ring Ring…

            I could keep going with examples of other comments. But…

        • Zap;

          Your inserting (English to Spanish) says that you get the play on words in the question – and also shows your bias against looking up words.

          The entire question is: “Hello Mr. Fenn,

          For those of us that do not speak a lick of Spanish, would a Spanish to English dictionary be helpful in our search for your treasure chest?


          You should not need to look any words up John. Good luck. f

          John – who is probably English (not Jose) asks Will he need to use a Spanish to English dictionary. Probably not, since he is probably reading the poem in English!

          Understanding “not a lick” of Spanish, it would be MOST difficult to look up a Spanish word to find out if it meant “wood” for example.

          Your bias against anyone ever needing to look up ANY word in the poem is mind boggling – but that is YOUR choice – Good Luck JDA

        • Zap;

          You miss the point: The question is:
          Hello Mr. Fenn,

          For those of us that do not speak a lick of Spanish, would a Spanish to English dictionary be helpful in our search for your treasure chest?


          You should not need to look any words up John. Good luck. f

          One can probably assume that JOHN is English, reading the poem in English. John says that: “For those of us that do not speak a lick of Spanish” – How can he possibly use a Spanish to English dictionary to find out the Spanish word for (say) “wood”? Impossible. He would have to look at almost every word until – at last – he came across MADERA.

          It is also difficult to understand your bias against looking up ANY word in the poem. It boggles my mind – but that is YOUR choice – Good Luck to Ya’ JDA

          • JDA: did you actually READ my post, or just assume what it said? Jeez, I thought I was crystal clear. I spoke ONLY of translating between languages. I said nothing disparaging about looking up words in a dictionary. I didn’t even address that issue. So that’s your bias showing, not mine.

          • Zap;

            If I misread what you posted, I apologize. What I read was:”Forrest said “You should *not* (my emphasis) need to look ANY (My emphasis) words up John.” I don’t know how Forrest could be any more clear: To me this said that you thought that no one should look up ANY words.

            If I interpreted what you said – my bad – JDA

          • JDA: you did interpret my post incorrectly, so apology excepted. By empasisizing that one word in Forrest’s quote, you changed the meaning significantly. Hopefully you saw my other post in this thread where I leave no doubt what I’m talking about.

            Solution dependence on dictionaries is a separate matter, and Forrest has not said such activities are unneeded. Clearly your solution depends on it, so U understand your hypersensitivity to the topic.

        • I had to read the quwestion over three times, but Spanish to English dictionary probably would not help, since the poem is probably being read by “John” (and not Jose) in English – JDA

        • Seeker: you’re mixing apples and oranges. The context of Forrest’s comment is crystal clear: no Spanish. That is a completely different question from whether one has to look up words in a dictionary. Forrest was only addressing a particular foreign language translation. However, personally, I think by extension we can also rule out German, French, Italian, Russian, Dutch, Turkish, Polish, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Portuguese, Greek, Latin, Maori, Hindi, Arabic, Zulu, and any other non-English language. (Probably means we can rule out “American”, too, since it bares only marginal resemblance to English.)

          • Wait! What? Rule out American Language??? If we rule that out, I’ll need to learn English. I ain’t be gonna ta go threw anoterh 12 yeers of ta, American Education System, again…

      • Possible. I know very little Spanish, and I would need to either see a Spanish word/name/place, etc. and look up the word to see what it means, or, I would need to use an English to Spanish dictionary to compare. Not sure if that makes any sense.

          • Luckily, I didn’t ask the question. When I do, I try to be specific where there isn’t much wiggle room to answer.

          • The key word is “try”. I believe if Mr. Fenn would ever answer one of my questions, as confident as I believe I would feel there wouldn’t be much wiggle room, I’m sure he is clever enough to put my confidence to shame.

    • Drat! This question came out long after I had already looked up translations for just about every Spanish-named feature in the Rockies. This would have saved me a good amount of time! Ah well, at least I learned what “rayado” means.

    • Thanks, pdenver — hadn’t checked Jenny’s site yet today. That’s big news! Another book full of rabbit holes on its way!

    • YEA for Forrest – He says” After that maybe I will retire for sure, but I secretly hope not. f” Well, I won’t keep it a secret – If you do decide to retire, I will miss you greatly. Maybe the treasure will be found soon, then you can make your decision. JDA

  22. We’re looking for a needle in a haystack… but the haystack keeps getting bigger and bigger… I think I’ll run down to the hardware store and buy me a bigger pitchfork……. 🙂
    Looking forward to Forrest’s new book….
    Thanks pdenver for the heads up link to Jenny’s …
    Have a great day… until next time…see ya

    • Dear Forrest,
      In your book you mention ‘two can keep a secret if one of them is dead‘. Did someone else know the place you hid your Treasure Chest? ~ Carolyn

      No, just me. f

      While this question seemed logical [there’s a loop whole]… it was answered exactly the way the question was asked ~ No one knows the place ‘the chest’ is hidden at! Only fenn does.
      The question didn’t ask if others, that fenn knows or knew of, where at the same ‘place / location’ prior, or even after the chest was hidden there. In reference to; two can keep a secret if one is dead.

      On the flip-side… IF no body else knows of this place at all… Then those who have a solve revolving around Mr. W. Fenn, E. Sloane, Skippy or anyone else… ya might want to re-think that idea.
      I’m leaning toward the first and don’t give much thought to the latter.

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