Scrapbook One Hundred Sixty Seven…

scrapbook

FEBRUARY 2017

Jon Lackman conducted this email interview with Forrest for a publication that did not use it. Rather than let it die in his computer Jon has decided to share it with us. The interview was conducted in May of 2015.

Thanks Jon!!

——————————-

– My apologies for the morbid impolite question, but it seems quite possible that this treasure hunt will be the first line of your obituary. Are you comfortable with that? Is there something else you’ve done that you’d prefer to come first? 

FF: I said in my book that my obituary should say, “I wish I could have lived to do the things I was attributed to.” During my art gallery years I advertised full page color in some of the most prominent magazines of that time, which made me an “expert” in the eyes of many. It was good for business, but it also made me a target. My treasure story lit a fuse that will burn until someone finds the chest full of gold, and perhaps beyond, My 20 years as a fighter pilot was a much larger part of my life. In Vietnam I flew 328 combat missions, and was shot down twice. The reality is that what my obituary says will be of little consequence.

– I’ve read that you wrote the book and set the treasure hunt to get kids off their little texting machines and outside to smell the sunshine.  Apart from this, are there any other important messages that you wanted to get across? 

FF: Yes, I have two daughters who are in their 50s and don’t know who Clark Gable was. I wanted them to know that their great great grandmother watched Comanche Indians run through her barnyard in Ft. Worth trying to catch chickens.

– You have said some things in scrapbook entries that seem too bizarre to be true, like the fact that you keep your jeans on when you shower.  Are you at times just pulling people’s legs?

FF: Yes, I didn’t think that comment would fool many people. I was trying to make a point.

– Last month, you indicated that still nobody has correctly solved beyond the first two clues.  Is this correct?  Still nobody has solved beyond the first two clues?

FF: Very few people tell me exactly where they are searching so there is no way for me to know. Some searchers have been within 200 feet.

– Without saying how you know, you have offered reassurance that you know the treasure is still in its hiding spot. Is there any method planned for hunters to obtain this reassurance after your death? 

FF: No sir.

– Do you intend to keep releasing occasional small hints for as long as you live? Have you made any plans for clues to continue surfacing after your death? 

FF: No sir.

– I’ve also read that you wrote the treasure hunt for an unemployed redneck with 12 kids.  Does this mean that all of those people who are delving into Native American history, Greek mythology etc are looking too deeply?  Can hunters really get to the treasure location with just a good map, the poem, and a decent knowledge of words? 

FF: I wrote the book for everyone who feels a sense of wanderlust. In your last question if you change the last word to geography, my answer would be yes.

– How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?) 

FF: All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.

– People have become fixated on you telling them to bring a sandwich and a flashlight.  Are they just wasting their time focusing on these things as clues? 

FF: They certainly are not clues.

– How much more likely are hunters to work out where warm waters halt with the aid of TTOTC, compared to without it?

FF: You sure ask confounding, but insightful questions. The clues are in the poem, but there are hints in the book.

– Can you give me one quote that will inspire my readers that it is possible to find your treasure?  Something to motivate them?  Something to tease them.

FF: Those who solve the first clue are more than half way to the treasure, metaphorically speaking.

 

671 thoughts on “Scrapbook One Hundred Sixty Seven…

    • Whoa, it was a flashlight AND sandwich?!

      To think of how much time I’ve already wasted searching on the internet for sandwich-shaped flashlights….

  1. – I’ve also read that you wrote the treasure hunt for an unemployed redneck with 12 kids. Does this mean that all of those people who are delving into Native American history, Greek mythology etc are looking too deeply? Can hunters really get to the treasure location with just a good map, the poem, and a decent knowledge of words?

    FF: I wrote the book for everyone who feels a sense of wanderlust. In your last question if you change the last word to geography, my answer would be yes.

    For those searchers that have included a dictionary in their essential toolkit, it seems that f is saying that meanings of words will not be useful. I won’t mention any searcher/s by name, but they may want to make adjustments based on f’s answer.

    • HMA;

      Please re-read your own post. Forrest was asked, ” Can hunters really get to the treasure location with just a good map, the poem, and a decent knowledge of words?

      FF: I wrote the book for everyone who feels a sense of wanderlust. In your last question if you change the last word to geography, my answer would be yes.

      Forrest did not answer the question. He said to substitute geography for “a decent knowledge of words.”

      To me, this means that just “a decent knowledge of words IS NOT sufficient to solve the clues. If it were, he would have said yes…but he didn’t. That is just MHO – give it a bit of thought, and maybe YOU will change your approach. JDA

      • JDA – Maybe you’re right. Maybe f doesn’t want us to think logical or believe what he says. Maybe you are into something.

        The alternative though is that you are beating a square peg through a round hole. If you are right about the poem there is no need to bend or twist words in the poem or the words that f shares.

        You twisted a recent statement by f about waterfalls so that you could force it to fit your solution. Think about what you are doing. Does it seem logical? I say no. I’m guessing you will twist, hammer, and force everything no matter what.

        • HMA;

          But that is my point HMA – I DO believe what he says, and to me he is saying that “a decent amount of knowledge of words” is NOT enough. If you choose to read it differently, more power to you guy.

          As far as I know, I never twisted anything Forrest said about waterfalls to match my solve. Again, that is your opinion.

          I spend zero amount of time contemplating how you and your solve may be wrong. You sure spend a lot of time worrying about me and my solve. I guess I should be flattered. JDA

          • JDA – IMO you twist, bend, and snap what f has told us. You are having fun so I won’t stop you.

            I’m not a teacher but I try to assist others. Sorry I could not help you.

          • OK Thanks for your help. In my personal opinion, which might be wrong, in order to help someone, you have to be able to give them good advice. All any of us has is our opinion. You believe that what you say is true – I will give you that. IS what you say true? You honestly have no way of knowing, because you do not have the chest,nor do I. Therefore you honestly do not know if you are helping or hurting me or other bloggers.

            I believe that am correct in the assumptions I make. I NEVER try to persuade anyone that I am right, because until I have that chest, I can not SAY that I am right.

            I am not in this challenge to help anyone. I do offer my opinion on certain things, but I make sure I say it is just an unproven opinion.

            I am in it to find the treasure. Maybe my goals are wrong. Maybe I should devote all of my efforts to helping you find the treasure HMA.

            Doing so will not help me nor my family solve some financial problems. Me finding the treasure WILL.

            Maybe you are in a position to set as your main goal – helping me and others find the treasure. YEA for you.

            Personally I think you are shoveling BS, and honestly, I would prefer it if you took me off of your “Help needed” list. Have a great day. JDA

          • HMA;

            You say, “JDA – IMO you twist, bend, and snap what f has told us. You are having fun so I won’t stop you.

            Just how the H*** could you stop me even if you wanted to? Gosh the BS is getting deep. You are so full of yourself you are going to explode. JDA

          • JDA –

            It’s clear that you and I are at different ends of the spectrum regarding logic, necessary tools, and how to approach the poem. There isn’t anything wrong with that and I think we can agree to disagree.

            I do find it interesting that if the Moby video had never surfaced, you and possibly a few others would not have any reason to use dictionaries or look up special meanings of words. In my mind f made that statement because he put all the work into that part so a searcher would not need to use a dictionary. Forrest does say over and over that *geography* is needed along with a few other things. If you can find even one other instance where f says dictionaries are useful I will concede.

            “I am in it to find the treasure. Maybe my goals are wrong. Maybe I should devote all of my efforts to helping you find the treasure HMA.”

            Besides the awesome challenge of solving the poem, the treasure chest is like icing on the cake. A sweet reward for those that complete the homework that our teacher assigned. I certainly believe that many are enticed by the lure of riches and that is understandable. It’s good to set goals so I don’t fault you for that at all, in fact I applaud you. I set goals and for this year I set the bar very high. One goal was to solve the poem. Check I won’t need your help with that. I know what the treasure is and I’m confident I know where the treasure chest is hiding. I won’t need your help with that either. The poem has pushed me to think differently and challenged me in ways I never would have dreamed. It’s been rewarding and I don’t have any regrets.

            I hope your next adventure is as fun as all the rest. I will look forward to hearing your report after the next BOTG mission. Good luck.

          • HMA;

            I do not want to beat a dead horse, and I agree, that we can disagree.

            You said, : If you can find even one other instance where f says dictionaries are useful I will concede.

            I will not type out the full quotes, but here are three:

            Forrest: I worked on it off and on for 15 years. I looked up words, and the definitions of words, and I changed hem, and went back and rebooted…”
            http://santafe.com/podcast/forrest-fenn-on-treasure-hunting-in-the-rickies.

            “I changed it so many times that I’ve said before that I didn’t write that poem, it, it, it was written by an architect, each word is deliberate…
            https://www.youtube.com/watch pv=t12puP8WYM&feature=youtube.

            “The poem in my book is something that I changed over and over again. When you read the poem, it looks like just simple words there, but I guarantee you, I worked on that thing … I felt like an architect drawing that poem.” f

            https://youtube.com/watch&y=jXupxLhovmY

            I hope I copied the url’s correctly.

            Proof enough for me. It may not be proof enough for you, and that is OK. I have no need to make you a believer.

            Good luck in your upcoming search when it warms up. JDA

        • At first I thought this SB might put to rest the theory that understanding etymology or obscure word meanings was critical to solving the poem’s clues. In his answer, Forrest made a specific point of *substituting* “decent knowledge of words” with “decent knowledge of geography.” He could have ~added~ on knowledge of geography, but he didn’t. He struck “words” and replaced it. How would a person new to the Chase, with no preconceived notions, interpret his answer? Seems to me they’d get their nose out of the dictionary and start pouring over maps.

          • Zaphod73491 – That would be logical but most treasure hunters on this site think that f is trying to trick them.

            Many searchers don’t know because they can’t get over their rigid way of thinking.

          • Just make sure you guys come back with your brilliant full solves and stories this year… I’ll be the first to either congratulate or dig ya a new one… my bet is the later. lol

        • HMA,
          I agree with JDA assessment… Fenn may have not wanted to use a “descent amount” as an answer…. but didn’t want to elaborate either.

          More importantly are a combination of questions using words such as; location of the treasure , A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure, etc. The poem is information that will lead to the chest… but the poem doesn’t make one “go find” the chest.

          IMO, fenn didn’t dismiss the important of meanings or usages of words [ whch he has stated he looked up meanings and definitions of words for the poem. He answered the questions as presented…

          Just like the question about;
          – How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?)
          FF: All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.

          This seems to state, the poem is solvable prior, but is not known that it has been at this time. So, “in theory” is a truthful answer that it can be done. But, not able to be found “find” unless a searcher is actually on site. Common sense really. and it does seem to imply the comment ~ “certainty beforehand”

          • Seeker, Here’s the short answer. Meanings of words are not helpful according to f.

            IMO the poem can be solved at home. You still have to physically go to the place where the treasure chest sits. Not impossible but not easy.

          • HMA – Here is what Forrest has said about words: “Forrest once said, “There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order. If you want to find the treasure chest – you have my book there – I’ll tell you how to do it. Read the book just normally … the poem and the rest of the book, and then go back and read the poem 6, 8, 10 times – study every line, every word. Then after you do that, read the book again, slowly, with the idea of looking for clues or hints, that are in the book that will help you follow the clues. You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues.” f

            “STUDY EVERY LINE EVERY WORD” Now YOU show me where he has EVER said, ” Meanings of words are not helpful according to f.”

            Back up your words HMA, and quit shoveling BS. JDA

          • JDA – I’ve never seen anything that says the clues in the poem are in consecutive order.

            If you think they are, you are behind.

          • Seeker — so what is your answer to my somewhat rhetorical question from above: “How would a person new to the Chase, with no preconceived notions, interpret his answer” (regarding the replacement of “words” with “geography”)?

          • I agree that the poem can be solved mostly at home. We all think we have a good solve before we go to our search area, otherwise we’d just be wandering aimlessly around. But even if we were absolutely correct with figuring out a solve at home with our resources there, we still would have to go to the area and physically search because it is not out there in plain sight – it is hidden.

          • JDA – Yes, you follow clues in consecutive order but that does not mean the clues are in consecutive order in the poem.

            What baffles me is that you will discount any place that f has written/ talked about. For instance, he talks about scattering Olga’s ashes on Taos mountain. You think the chest could not be in that area but in Oklahoma instead. Do you think f is trying to trick you?

          • The place where Forrest talks about the clues being in consecutive order starts at about 27:09 into the interview. Not MY words HMA, Forrest’s. JDA

          • HMA what fanticy are you living? I have NEVER commented on Olga’s ashes.

            If Forrest states that the clues are in consecutive order – of course they are in consecutive order in the poem.

            It is impossible to talk logically to someone who will not use logic.

            Good night and good-bye HMA. Have a good delusional life. You are the one who needs help, not me. IMO JDA

          • Zap “Seeker — so what is your answer to my somewhat rhetorical question from above: “How would a person new to the Chase, with no preconceived notions, interpret his answer” (regarding the replacement of “words” with “geography”)?

            We all have the same information. Just because someone is new to the chase doesn’t make this comment any different the all the others…
            Example; the nail down the first clue comment, and many thought, once that was done we be in the gold. Now many comments later we realized it’s not that easy.

            As we try to rationalize one comment, a second or third or tenth comment changes our perspective completely.

            How can you rationalize all of fenn’s other comments about the words in the poem; were worked on and not just simple looking words, or he looked up word meanings and definitions of words, felt like an architect writing the poem, unwise to discount any words…etc. etc.? And now compare this comment to all of those [and keep in mind the wording of this question[s] ~ “…a descent amount…”

            Remember the Q&A with “admire”?
            Remember the Q&A with “a few” and “scant”?
            If we are to truly attempt to understand any comment… we need to review the others as well… OR just find the first clue and don’t worry about anything else… that should work out just fine, right?

          • Seeker-
            Quite possibly it has not gotten easier for any of us because we simply do not have the correct place to begin. Maybe we are certain we have figured out WWWH but quite possibly we are all delusional and no one has figured out where the real WWWH is at….
            With the possible exception of the Little Girl From India… 🙂

          • Dal,
            That is possible… but, then again, the searchers told fenn where they were and that is how fenn knew the deciphered / indicated the first two clues, and walked passed the other remaining clues.
            Believe me when I say, I’m dumbfounded still about folks who live and breathe this seem to miss something. Unless…
            they had the first two clues deciphered, but backwards. Did they read the poem properly?
            Which reminds me of the comment; “it’s not a matter of trying, it’s a matter of thinking. Sure I mean, people figured the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked past the treasure” { I think that was from the SF podcast } The same one where he explains looking up words etc.

            LOL, man would I have loved to been a bug on any of those searchers backpack to be where they were.

            Now, delusional? lol… that’s a whole other topic… I guess I’ll just wait for the next tell all book to help with that.

          • Seeker ,

            “We all have the same information. Just because someone is new to the chase doesn’t make this comment any different the all the others…”

            Yes, of course, but I was trying to have you interpret Fenn’s statement in standalone fashion, absent any preconceptions about what is required to solve the poem. You must admit that at the very least, he’s suggesting a decent knowledge of geography is more important than a decent knowledge of words.

            “How can you rationalize all of fenn’s other comments about the words in the poem; were worked on and not just simple looking words, or he looked up word meanings and definitions of words, felt like an architect writing the poem, unwise to discount any words…etc. etc.?”

            It is not a conflict for me at all, but I think I see why it is for you and others. You have made a hidden assumption about Forrest’s statements about his looking up word meanings, that the words look simple, that he felt like an architect drawing the poem, etc., etc. But consider this: do you need to be a locksmith to know how to unlock a door? Or an electrician to turn on a light, or a plumber to take a shower? Your hidden assumption is that the skill set needed to construct the poem and its clues is the same as that needed to solve it. That may not be the case.

            Forrest has never once suggested that a dictionary or thesaurus were good tools *for the searcher* to use. He said ~he~ looked up words, and given how I believe the poem works I can see why he probably needed to. But you shouldn’t confuse the tools he needed for his task with the ones you need for yours.

            If a dictionary was helpful or even necessary, I think he would have included it in his enumerated list of excellent research materials (poem, TTOTC, GE and/or a good map). Instead, he made a point of saying that no specialized knowledge was required.

            Maybe people just assume that a dictionary is such an obvious thing to use that there was no need for Forrest to specifically mention it. In other words, no different than the clear requirement that you need to know how to read English. But a dictionary can be a dangerous source of rabbit holes.

          • Zap,
            What I find a bit puzzling is the attempt to say, or seem you are saying… understanding the meanings of how words used in a ‘poem’ is not important or needed.
            The fact that fenn hasn’t come out yet and state directly… Hello world, YOU need to look up meanings of words… doesn’t dismiss all the times he talks about the words in the poem, how he did look up words and meanings, explain he doesn’t use a dictionary anymore but google for a faster reference, how he work on and off for 15 years and on and on…

            I suggest listening to one of the SF podcast… listed in the media section [ sorry don’t recall which one exactly ] @ approx. 11 mins – 12 mins
            That is the best example I can refer you to… but there are many comments that relate to his word choices in the poem and there meanings.

          • Zap ~”Yes, of course, but I was trying to have you interpret Fenn’s statement in standalone fashion, absent any preconceptions about what is required to solve the poem.”

            The question or comment is not possible as a “standalone”
            If one desires not to investigate it more, than there is no helping that person.

            Look at it this way… you and others jump at the chance to say… we must have a map to solve the poem and it clues. Funny how that has become a necessity ‘only’ after fenn made the comment about GE and /or a good map. What about the two or three years prior to that? Did those 2010 – 11 – and 12 searchers have no change without that later statement? or is it just common sense that we are to use these types of information/tools to help look at an area covering thousands of miles.

          • What took us years to figure out the ole coot is throwing it out there for everyone to catch up So he can say everyone had a fair chance fair is fair said billy jean i mean forrest fenn

          • JDA –

            “Why to you automatically think that anything I say is false? I just gave you the quote from Forrest. Would you like for me to give you the reference of when Forrest said it?”
            Here is the reference: http://reportfromsantafe.com/episodes/view/144/forrest-fenn/

            I watched that video some time ago and just went back and watched it again. Thanks for sharing. He sure does say that they are in consecutive order. I can’t dispute that, but will offer this thought up. This was one of the earliest interviews after the chase started. He may not have rehearsed enough with replies that he wanted to give. I still stand by my thought that the clues in the poem are not in consecutive order.

            This video contains a very nice nugget if you know what to listen for.

          • JDA –

            “HMA what fanticy are you living? I have NEVER commented on Olga’s ashes.”

            I know you didn’t mention Olga but my post was a for instance/for example type of post. My point was that you seem to think it’s illogical for f to hide a treasure in a place that he talks about in his books or other writings. You then take that theory and look up the meanings of words that lead you off the reservation to places that are far from f’s heart.

            “If Forrest states that the clues are in consecutive order – of course they are in consecutive order in the poem.”

            Again, I would suggest that clues are consecutive but not consecutively placed in the poem. Again we can agree to disagree. Just keep in mind that if your theory does not pan out, you can always make adjustments.

          • HMA
            If I may offer one small suggestion. If you do not have JCM’s “Chasing Words of Forrest Fenn” – (I prefer the chronological one, but the topics one is good also) you
            might find it helpful in reading the many things that Forrest has said over the past 6+ years of the Chase.

            In addition to the quotes I posted re word usage, I ran across two or three more quotes re consecutive order of the clues.

            Just a suggestion. JDA

          • JDA –

            “If I may offer one small suggestion. If you do not have JCM’s “Chasing Words of Forrest Fenn” – (I prefer the chronological one, but the topics one is good also) you
            might find it helpful in reading the many things that Forrest has said over the past 6+ years of the Chase.”

            Thanks for the suggestion. There is a lot of information to keep track of because f has been so generous with sharing things with us since he started the chase. If I was still searching for clues, I would be inclined to purchase Chasing Words. At this time, I’m waiting on the weather to play nicely. Seems as though it will be some time before that happens.

          • HMA;

            Like you, I am no longer chasing clues, but in circumstances like now, where you and I are debating the pro’s and con’s of a particular subject, having references at our fingertips, of Forrest’s statements is useful. Just my opinion. JDA

          • JDA –

            “Like you, I am no longer chasing clues, but in circumstances like now, where you and I are debating the pro’s and con’s of a particular subject, having references at our fingertips, of Forrest’s statements is useful. ”

            So if you aren’t chasing clues, then we have 4 possible outcomes.
            1. You are right and I’m wrong.
            2. I’m right and you are wrong.
            3. We are both wrong.
            4. We are both right.

            If for instance we were both right and searching the same spot, would you want to search together and share in the treasure together, or is it a foot race to the end?

          • Hma & JDA,
            I will go with this option:
            3. We are both wrong.

            JDA has been much more telling with his solve & has shared quite a bit although he wants you to figure it out with your own mind instead of giving you the cow, he offers milk most of the time.

            Hma has offered very little & go back & read the poem which we already have done & can’t see what he sees because you don’t elaborate much. Just hot air.
            I can see this is going nowhere.

          • I will pay to see that Fennatical,
            It’s been heated at times during the winter.
            We got a few that know where it is & have the poem figured out.
            I’m not buying any of them.
            The wise old owl knows.

          • HMA;

            I have done this alone from 23 December, 2015. I have not felt the need for assistance from outsiders, and am not about to change now.

            You know I search in Wyoming. I thought that you were searching in Montana. Am I wrong?

            If we are searching the same area, which I strongly doubt – put on your track shoes bud, and may the best man win.. You are sure of your solve, and so am I. I KNOW exactly where it is. Do you have the same confidence? If so – Go For It. JDA

          • HMA
            P.S. Without understanding the hidden “Meanings of words” – I do not, in any way at all believe that you and I could possibly end up at the same point. To me, that would be an absolute impossibility. But good luck to ya’ Tighten up them laces, and TRY to STAY SAFE out there. JDA

      • No JDA, If you simply put “geography” in place of words, you get:

        Can hunters really get to the treasure location with just a good map, the poem, and a decent knowledge of “geography.”

        Thats what he said.

    • Meanings of words are not useful ? Knowing the meanings of words is not only useful but critical in solving this puzzle.
      (IMO).
      Maybe in Mr Fenn’s opinion a knowledge of geography is more important than a knowledge of words.
      Didn’t he say: “You will ignore the poem at your own peril” ?
      I think we can chalk up that response as just another FF ‘head scratcher’.

      -Randawg.

      • Randawg, I am on the same page as you. I think Forrest was clear is his response that knowledge of geography was more important in finding the chest than knowledge of words. However, that is certainly no reason for everyone to chuck their dictionaries into the fire and completely abandon the practice of looking into the meanings of words in more detail.

        One of my favorite English teachers from high school taught me that one should always have a dictionary close at hand whenever reading anything in general, and it is a practice that I follow to this day; even while reading paperback fantasy novels for leisure. The English language is quite a cumbersome meandering thing that is constantly changing while leaving a trail of odd histories in its wake and I’m still encountering words that are completely new to me. It’s just good practice in general to always read with a dictionary, in my opinion.

        By the way, speaking of dictionaries, did anyone notice on Merriam-Webster’s website if you look up the definition of “blaze”, there are a couple of comments down at the bottom of the page obviously made by a couple of ff treasure-seekers? It made me chuckle!

      • I’ve saved myself some time and didn’t look up the word “it” in a dictionary. It’s the only shortcut I could find so far.

          • Not me, Randawg — but only because it’s a phrase used often in meteorite hunting and archaeology.

            But I think the question this phrase appears in is one of the three most important revelations from this SB:

            “How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?)”

            FF: “All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.”

            He just admitted that you could *theoretically* solve all the clues from home without ever putting boots on the ground. Many believe that only the first few clues can be solved from home, and the rest must be deciphered on site — their reasoning being that Forrest is trying to get people OFF their computers and outside enjoying nature. Why would he design a Chase that can be almost completely solved from home? The problem with this is how do you proceed with confidence if you’ve only solved 2 or 3 clues before leaving the house? To think this, you must believe the last 6 or 7 clues are all in very close proximity, and your task will then be to step your way through them once you’re there. But here’s why I think this reasoning is flawed: longevity. What sort of physical clues are likely to last hundreds or even thousands of years that are all so close together? (For instance, trees are OUT.) The very things that stand the test of time are the features that are found on maps, but these are rarely bunched up all together.

            What I believe this all boils down to is that Forrest’s desired longevity for the clues actually precludes a mostly-BOTG solution. The answers to the clues we’re trying to solve are found on maps. Forrest has explicitly said so.

          • Zap you asked: What sort of physical clues are likely to last hundreds or even thousands of years that are all so close together?

            Rock formations would be one easy answer.
            geological: relating to the study of the earth’s physical structure and substance.

            That would explain why imagination is more important than knowledge. If we are at the first two clues and see what Fenn saw we can proceed with confidence. The area may not be that spectacular to us, not that it’s a bad place. We may have to read Fenn’s biography to understand why it’s so special to him.

            To me Fenn has been clear with his statements telling us how to solve the poem. I get a kick out of folks twisting themselves into a double knot trying to dismiss what he has said. No wonder he said to read the blogs for entertainment.

          • nope, not me either randawg ..as i’m already quite fluent in latin thanks 🙂

            “Buena suerte con la persecución”

          • Hi Goofy,

            The problem with rock formations is that, with a few exceptions, most will not be found on maps. But perhaps you interpret Forrest’s statement from Scrapbook 73…

            “I would like to reiterate: Please go back to the poem and look at maps for your answers.”

            … to only apply to the first few clues rather than to all of them. I suppose that’s a valid interpretation.

            “That would explain why imagination is more important than knowledge. If we are at the first two clues and see what Fenn saw we can proceed with confidence.”

            Could be. My interpretation of the imagination vs. knowledge statement is that the clues may have to be used in an imaginative or unexpected way.

            “To me Fenn has been clear with his statements telling us how to solve the poem.”

            I agree. And that’s why I get a kick out of people digging into dictionaries (whether English, Spanish or otherwise) or reading up on famous explorers or trappers, while some of these same people won’t buy a copy of TTOTC … even though Forrest has said there are some good hints in it.

          • I’ll continue to use imagination from home. I might even use it on my searches. Why would I only pack imagination in my travel bag?

          • Zap ~ “The answers to the clues we’re trying to solve are found on maps. Forrest has explicitly said so.”

            When? where? How in the HOB did you come up with fenn said “explicitly” the “clues” are on maps???

            All the clue??? No doubt at all, that all the clues are found on maps?

            Maybe you should read that quote a few more times.

            ***Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f” ***

            But wait.. where is a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help?? it’s not in the above comment so we shouldn’t use that, right?
            Or on the SF podcast fenn tells us he looked up words and definition of words and he worked on and off for 15 years… lets skip that little tidbit as well because its not in the comment above.

            Man, some of you folks really pull whatever ya like out of a hat to force your solves… I can’t wait till ya get back from your brilliant search Zap… gonna love hearing all about it.
            Fenn also stated on a T&E OH interview “…They don’t need to read my book, but they need to read my poem, the book will help, BUT they can find the treasure if they can decipher the clues that are in the poem”…humm.. no mention of maps here, and even the book doesn’t get the poem solved, just a helpful research material, just like maps.

            By the way it’s “a good map” not ‘maps’ and in another comment he states the “right map”…

          • Seeker, you must know Forrest said it, so don’t be so obtuse. You’re always pulling up his quotes, and I even made it easy for you by giving you the Scrapbook number (though SB 73 has over 1,000 comments, so it will take a long time for it to load):

            From ForrestFire 6/6/2014 at 1:15 pm:
            “I would like to reiterate: Please go back to the poem and look at maps for your answers.”

            That’s pretty crystal clear to me, but read all 4 paragraphs of Forrest’s post if you think I’ve taken something out of context. (And, btw, *kaboom* on your other remark about map singular vs. maps plural.)

            “All the clue??? (sic) No doubt at all, that all the clues are found on maps?”

            As was very clear in my reply to Goofy, I left open the possibility (for him, at least) that not all of the clues’ answers might be found on maps. For me they are, but there is nothing in Forrest’s quote that says all 9 answers will be found on a map or maps.

            By bringing up the “comprehensive knowledge of geography,” and Forrest’s admission that he looked up words, and that he changed the poem over and over, you seem to think I pick and choose which statements of his to accept and which to discard. Hmm, let’s see. I have read TTOTC at least 20 times (and have typed the whole thing into my computer), TFTW, every Scrapbook, every Vignette, every posted email remark I could find, listened to his podcasts, and watched every video I could find. I’d say I’ve been pretty inclusive and thorough in building my solution, and I don’t find any of his statements to be in conflict.

          • Zap/Seeker

            i’m reminded of a saying my humble old latin teacher (Marciano ‘the machete’ Mattarazo) used to say in a bickering situation like this:

            “bene, così voi due vuole andare a fare un giro nel bagagliaio eh?”

            it never failed to instantly quell any classroom chaos, with it’s gentle poetic prose..

            and, although i never actually bothered to learn one word of latin, i still find it such a soothing language 🙂

          • Curious Hobbit: when I was knee-high to a grasshopper, played outside after school until dark, drank water right out of a garden hose, and rode in cars that had no seat belts or car seats in the backseat, it was the most fun to ride in the “way back” — i.e. the cargo area of the station wagon with wood paneling. But, hmmm, I fear Marciano is suggesting something not quite so fun…

          • Zapster ..yeah, i remember those easygoing days too.

            us local boys used to lay on the warm local road after a cold swim at our local river, and make the ‘townies’ drive their fancy cars around us, on the grass verge.

            i became one of those ‘townies’ shortly thereafter – how times change huh..

            (but i’m quite certain that Mr Marciano had the best of intentions at heart – hopefully one day i’ll be lucky enough to understand exactly what he meant 🙂 )

          • Zap, there’s been plenty of searchers that found a famous explorer in TTOTC from an obtuse story by f. Wonder if that’s one of the hints in TTOTC that you mentioned.

          • Hi FD,

            Thread getting awkwardly long, but I’ll extend it a skosh:

            “Zap, there’s been plenty of searchers that found a famous explorer in TTOTC from an obtuse story by f. Wonder if that’s one of the hints in TTOTC that you mentioned.”

            In Fenn fashion, my answer is: “Nope.”

          • Kia Ora Everyone.
            As I have been saying before, find the 6 places mentioned in the poem, locate them on a map, join the dots and see what shape it makes.
            Anagrams are the answer.

          • Tēnā koe John R

            I sincerely hope you’re right in your solve mate, but anagrams are definitely a rabbit-hole that i just have no inclination to explore.

            lemme know if you need to hire a guide though – as ‘off-track adventures in random countries’ is my middle name 🙂

  2. I had a bit of an epiphany reading once again the word “geography”. It’s meaning–to Forrest–seems important.

    Geography to me…..I tend to think topography, and I suspected I had some sort of bias, so I asked my 12yo son what was geography, and confirmed I did.
    I love it, his definition: “a way of knowing where you are”
    🙂

    • I like that too, Joseph. A wise son you have at the age of 12. From my perspective geography applies to -almost- every clue and that would be why the finder will have, “a way of knowing where you are.”

      Ready to go Rocky Mountain trout fishing with a good experienced guide!

  3. How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?)

    FF: All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.

    —- I tried to tell everyone that this was the case. Oh well, it’s nice to see he cleared up yet another endless debate.

      • Opinionatedly of course, I had solved it all from home. It was a lot more research than I expected, but most of that was outside of the book and poem. I spent countless hours deciphering Forrest’s posts on Jenny’s site and here at Dal’s. I must say, without those posts… I don’t think I would’ve solved it to the point where I was 100% sure of the location.
        All you have to do once you solve the clues at home, is to go get it… or BOTG as you imply. But as you know now, Forrest just answered that question. 😛

        • Iron Will – Good luck with your search. Whether you find the treasure chest or not, I hope you find a treasure. On the off-chance that you can’t locate the chest, will you still release your book?

          • Well … that’s an interesting thought at this point, where I’m pretty much 1,000% sure I am going to locate it (albeit I am not beaten to the site). But to answer your question I’ll say this. I told Forrest about my book, and that I would only publish it if I found the treasure. I just don’t see any practical purpose of writing a book about solving Forrest Fenn’s treasure, if I never really solved it. So, no… I would not. It would sit on my computer until I did or died I suppose 😛
            BTW, Forrest’s reply was that he was looking forward to reading it once it was published.

          • I wonder if “I” wrote a book about finding the location of the site, but didn’t have the treasure, would anyone read it?
            What if it only cost a dollar, to rent it. It could be an oral book, read in rich southern drawl … by a buxom sassy lady.
            Wonder would it rent … and further … who’d rent it the second time.
            Even the Little Rascals sometimes had a dollar.

        • I have to say Iron, you are brave my friend. I prefer not to be 100% sure of almost anything. I like to build my house of assumptions with straw so it is easier to blow them down later when I need to. Sometimes we all have our moments when we realize a pig only has four feet. I’ll read your book either way good luck.

          • Iron Will,
            I probably missed it on one of your previous posts,but, are you willing to say which state you will be searching? What time of year, in order for you to do a thorough search with your solve?

          • Hey Reklim, sure I’ll only say that I’ve located the spot where the treasure is at on Forrest’s friend’s Ranch near Santa Fe, and it’s very hard to find it without the right geographical map. As for when, I’m waiting for Mid April (tentatively), due to self publishing the “tell-all” book.

          • Iron Will, you’ll be allowed to search on this person’s ranch? Do you need permission to do so?

          • IronWill, Is the specific site where the treasure chest resides 8.25 miles north of the northern limits of Santa Fe? Just curious.

    • ironwill,are the first two clues, really where warm waters halt,I’m glad you figured out the poem.I took words like ,place= anywhere.so are we not to do that,just plain go by the words forrest written and not change them,I sure wish he would let us know.I don’t get out and search in different states,no money,scared of whats in the woods.getting lost.etc.people talk about the first two clues,just what really are the two clues,if you can say so.I live in colorado,been to estes park and nederland,but takes gas.I think your right about mr. forrest hiding the treasure on a friends ranch or family,as he couldn’t get in trouble hiding the treasure there.and he wouldn’t want anyone getting in trouble.but would give me something still to mess around with the poem.i come home from work at night,and don’t know what would be nine clues,change the words or not,so you see where I’m at in this treasure hunt.thanks ironwill,either way,I’ll understand.

      • It seems anywhere I go and speak the truth, too many see it as being an arrogant mule. If I answered your question, here’s how it would break down:

        50% would ignore it (for any number of reasons that they’ve massaged their personality with)

        35% would study and analyze it to try and solve it and beat me to it.

        15% would just assault my answer (for any number of reasons that they feel satisfies their id)

        So you see… my answering that is really a lose/lose scenario. I hope you understand Diane.

      • I think Forrest Fenn should publish a book like Where’s Waldo?
        So when we are tired and exhausted and our brains wrung up in knots, we can get out the book where eredang spread has lil pictures of his life — hundreds of ’em — and hidden really well twixt em … is treasure!!
        The proceeds could go to … a special veterans fund … one administered by his trusted choice.
        I’ll even help with that book.
        I’ll quit huntin and peckin … and just peck.
        I promise.

        • Ha,it’s hard to find waldo in those books.if they had a find forrest book.and the first person to find him,would get a clue.i would not be the winner. I wrote dal once and said him and forrest was in cahoots together on this.those two are tit and tat.haha.lumi film,light.i believe dals other,her last name is maven.take a ferry to get to lumi island.guess thats far reaching. He probably got a laugh.

    • Iron Will wrote: “I tried to tell everyone that this was the case.”
      —————————————————————-
      Which in no way renders your rigidly self-confident solution correct.

      • What I meant from that Ken is that you can solve it completely from home, then go retrieve it. I didn’t see the form of the “in situ” in the question till after I had posted it.
        What that question does not say is, “You cannot solve the poem from home.”

        Thanks for trying to stick my quote in my face though… I appreciate the moral high ground approach. 🙁

      • LOL Ken,
        Those dang poem purist…
        Reminds me of all those searchers comments after the Little Indy Q&A and the other Q&A with just having the poem and no backstory… What did they all say? OH! right, the poem can’t be solved at home. BOTG is the only way…

        But even the poem purist will agree, there is no way to “find the chest” unless in the field. But we should have that certainty beforehand.

    • IW ~ FF: All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.
      ” —- I tried to tell everyone that this was the case. Oh well, it’s nice to see he cleared up yet another endless debate.”

      Ha! lol… Don’t hurt yourself attempting to pat your own back.
      Anyone recall how the poem purist nickname came about??

  4. “I wish I could have lived to do the things I was attributed to.”

    I wish FF would extrapolate on this. Does he mean he was wrongly accused of something and wish he earned that reputation by actually doing it?

    Or does he mean that he will have significance post-mortem? That people will thank him for something later?

    • Forrest has always sort of been a living legend and legendary tales are often exaggerated.

      Although, the thought of his military service experiences, the journey of building his business and reputation and now this treasure hunt don’t need to be exaggerated much, to make me feel alive.

    • Pieces here is the quote that you are questioning: “Question posted 6/9/2014:
      Forrest,
      You said in the past that the chest is not in a dangerous place; yet searchers are searching along Cliffside’s, raging water, and other seemingly dangerous places. Could you please elaborate or qualify your statement in which you said” The chest is not in a dangerous place”
      Thanks
      Edward
      Edward, thanks for the question.
      The treasure is not hidden in a dangerous place in the normal definition of the word, realizing that there probably is no place on this planet that is safe under all conditions. Bloggers have quoted me as saying that a child could walk up to the treasure. I don’t think that’s an accurate quote because a three year old girl would have a problem without some help. Remember, I was about 80 when I hid the chest, and had to make two trips.f

      I hope that this helps clear up your question – JDA

  5. So we finally have our answer, and it is NO.

    We will need to have a theory.
    We will need to prove the theory by finding the treasure, and to do that we need to be BOTG.

    In theory anything is possible, in practice (which would mean the act of doing it) it is not likely. His final sentence “A searcer must go to the site to find the treasure” is the nail in the coffin, it is the answer which unfortunately is NO. To think otherwise is to try and force it to fit what we would like it to be.

    So to me yes the debate is over, a searcer must go to the site to find the treasure.

    Explain to me how on Earth anyone can think “a searcer must go to the site to find the treasure” means you can do it from home?

    • WMG,

      I agree. One can do allot from the armchair but I think the final 3 clues are absolute BOTG-no other way to find and follow last 3 but BTOG.

      • Yep, just like how they found the Titanic and Nuestra Señora de Atocha (“Our Lady of Atocha”). It took a TON of research to form various theories, and then it took many trips out to sea in order to put the theory to practice. Many theories failed completely just like they will on the Chase when tested in practice.

        IMO a good combination research done at home AND in situ (on site) is the winning combination. That is why FF ended the comment with “A searcher must go to the site to FIND the treasure.”, he did not say “get” or “retrieve”.

        Sure any theory can solve ALL the clue from home, but the theory is only a theory, not proven until the chest is “found” due to practical on-site research.

        I think some people jump to conclusions too quickly, Forrest did not in any way indicate that the chest can be found from home, he said the opposite IMO.

        I could be wrong, no way to tell until the chest is found! hehe

        • WMG,

          Yes , I fully agree with all you said which is the same as me ..hehe. This chest has been like searching for MH370 for 7 years. No theory nor BOTG together has been synced for a finding in any way. Chasing all forms of thought formed illusions a mind can generate.

        • Still hanging on these words … That is why FF ended the comment with “A searcher must go to the site to FIND the treasure.”, he did not say “get” or “retrieve”.
          Makin us some coffee. Message me would ya!
          I need to know how you like yours.

      • Kedar’s Mom, I feel like you’ve made several references to narrowing it down to a 10 x 10 inch spot. Do you mind if I ask what that’s all about or why you say that?

    • It is my belief that the blaze is the only element that requires physical field investigation to find, and all other clues can be found from maps or Google Earth. But I’ll only find out if that idea holds water come Spring.

    • I don’t think there’s been anyone that has thought you can find the treasure from home. Plenty have thought that you can figure out the clues from home and still do.

  6. For those interested here is the difference between theory and practice:

    A theory is a proposed relationship between two or more observed phenomena. Practice is performing the experiment in order to prove a theory.

    Theory = A coherent statement or set of ideas that explains observed facts or phenomena, or which sets out the laws and principles of something known or observed; a hypothesis confirmed by observation, experiment, etc.

    Practice = Actual operation or experiment, in contrast to theory.

    Starting from theory runs the risk of interpreting data strictly according the the perspective of that theory, which can create false results.

    https://www.boundless.com/sociology/textbooks/boundless-sociology-textbook/sociology-1/theoretical-perspectives-in-sociology-24/theory-and-practice-159-1144/

  7. Iron Will,
    You are a lot more crazy than most.
    I love searchers who are way out of the universe, never mind the box.

    FF: Yes, I didn’t think that comment would fool many people. I was trying to make a point.

    Keep on rollin….

  8. Thanks, Dal, for posting this. Finally, something totally new from ff. This was the first time I read or heard that Forrest said: “Those who solve the first clue are more than half way to the treasure, metaphorically speaking.” “METAPHORICALLY speaking”, WTF…I mean, Holy cow… I’ve read some of ff’s metaphors and at the time thought…huh? I think I know what he means, though, this time…or not. 🙂

    • Cynthia, what do you think it means?

      I lean toward, the first two clues place you at a location of viewing the remaining clues that might make up the blaze. Using the line of thinking the blaze is a single ‘usable’ object and might be made up of many other pieces to create one.
      But, I also have the first clue as something else than wwwh.

      • Seeker, I think he’s saying that solving the first clue is half the battle of finding the chest. Actually, he said “…more than half way to the treasure, metaphorically speaking”, once again emphasizing that you have to find the correct wwwh (or whatever the first clue is) before correctly proceeding to the next clue’s solve. IMO. He said somewhere the clues get progressively easier. Hmmm….

          • pdenver – I think Mr Fenn admitted in the interview that he speaks metaphorically, lol. For my solve, WWWH is the same both metaphorically and in plain language. Interesting. Now, what are the chances of that? Zap probably knows.

          • I thought I read/heard on a video of Mr. Fenn mentioning the poem didn’t involve metaphors. I wish I could remember where. Perhaps someone would be so kind to help in this matter and correct me if I’m wrong, please.

          • pdenver,
            As I recall… On one of the Richard Eads radio interviews, Mr. Eads asks about metaphors and forrest says, “forget the metaphors….”
            I’ll have to go look for the link. I don’t know which one it is right off the top of my head.

          • (2nd try) Re: Metaphors;
            The link is (here) on the Media Page: Richard Eeds Show on KVSF Radio on September 14th…. @ about 9:00 minutes in.

          • Thank you, WiseOne. I tried searching myself, but chose listening to May 29, 2015. Oops! 🙂

          • Ok, let me get all straight. Put ‘forget metaphors’ spoke by ff in that radio show in its proper context… he was asked was the treasure just a metaphore? by the radio host.

          • Mustang,
            Yep, the question was about is the chest a metaphor or real… fenn answered that question regarding the actuality of the chest and chase, not about the poem.

          • Hi Musstag, I agree with you about putting it in context.
            I was just trying to help out pdenver by locating the interview where Forrest used the word “metaphors.”

          • Ok, ok…. straight forward . I agree but how do you, or what do you label this, ‘straight forward with imagination’ ?

          • Maybe you could call it a ‘simile’ The Poem verses are one half of a simile. Comparing two unequal things, as ‘she is as pretty as a rose’.

          • Or, in stanza one, a simile example may be this line, riches new and old, could be memories new and old.

          • I think the first stanza is a hint in allegory form to the first clue (wwwh) that is a parallel of FF telling of someone else and ff’s then moment of the intent of purpose for the poem( treasure hunt) at that locations history. That location is of historical significance in reference to wwwh where that “someone” and ff begins their treasures of bold story, in that that they both will be remembered in history. They both will have taken allot of their secrets with them to their graves.

            As I have gone alone in there
            And with my treasures bold,
            I can keep my secret where,
            And hint of riches new and old.

            ” I” in the poem is “We”; with the person that is dead, writing it parallel as singularity as ‘I”.

            IMO

          • Musstag, I believe it’s amazing what happens when we really put our minds to it and we can answer our own questions.

        • Cynthia.
          I agree. Well, maybe not with the wwh thing… not yet anyways… but the first clue seems to be the ticket.
          But here’s a WhatIF, if the first clues needs to be nailed down, does that only mean deciphered by location or is there more?
          The thing that itches my britches is the first two clues… and possibly the first four… WhatIf the first clue we think we have is actually the second clue. It would still be an ingredient but just not in the right order.
          Thinking along the lines of making a cake: 1. two eggs 2. flour 3. water etc. But where do we really start? If we don’t have the mixing bowl, all we really have is a mess.

          So we have clues, but the clues are needed to be understood in the proper order. “need to know where to begin”
          So just for fun; we have for ingredients, waters mixed with canyon mixed with not far etc… Maybe we need something to put them in?

          • Seeker, IMHO your “thinking” should be considered the -fact of the day- and if the poem is actually cyclical , the real “beginning” may be found at what seems to be the end of the poem as we know it.

            That works for me…I’m going trout fishing real soon!

          • Ken,
            What is the difficult part about attempting to read the poem in a manner that the poem might be more instructions than directions?
            Are you going to actually say the poem is meant to be read by line order only?

          • Hi Seeker – you will readily recall f’s statement about knowing for sure what the hoB is and reverse engineering to figure out wwwh. But as f said, why would you care about wwwh if you know what the location of hoB is?

            So if wwwh is the second clue, you get wwwh right, what difference does knowing what the first clue is then? Maybe confusion in figuring out the remaining 8 clues when in reality there are only 7 left to work through. 🙂

          • JCM,
            I just saw this post… look below… I think it will answer your question. LOL it’s easy to find. It a long explanation… big surprise, right?

          • IMO….
            WWWH is the second clue…we first need to find what area of the RM to begin to look for wwwh.

            As I have gone “alone” in there…is imo the first clue.
            In the book TTOTC…close to the end of the book Mr f says (paraphrasing)
            that place was mine and mine alone…how dare they go there.
            I loned my book out several months ago and never got it back so I can not give a page number for this comment.

          • Hi Rick!
            The page number in TOTC is 125 in the chapter titled “Flywater”.

            In this chapter, Forrest is somewhat lamenting the fact that since the release of the fishing guidebook “Flywater”, one of his favorite old “secret” fishing spots is now full of people who now know about it from the book. I don’t think he necessarily has bitter feelings about this. He goes on to acknowledge this as an inevitable part of life. Reading between the lines, I think that he is also emphasizing the value of his “secret” spots that still remain undiscovered. I think that the spot where the chest is hidden is one such spot, and I think that Forrest would not be inclined to overtly name the spot in a book (as “Flywater” does).

            If and when the TC location is found, Forrest will have another of his secret spots known to all, unless the finder decides to not reveal the location to the general public (which I honestly think would be cruel to all of the other people captivated by the Chase, and I hope the finder does reveal the final solve).

            But I think Forrest has already anticipated this to come in the future, and is mitigating the eventually revelation of another of his secret spots through his project with burying the bells. We he finally leaves this world, he will leave behind plenty of secret locations still; locations that do not have a riddle leading to them, with bell-treasures not meant to be discovered until a long time in the future (if ever).

    • I, for one, am very glad Forrest added the qualifying statement “metaphorically speaking”, because otherwise I would suddenly be paranoid thinking “HOW DOES FORREST KNOW WHERE I LIVE???” 😉

  9. Like someone here just said that this Q&A’s have been asked and answered before by FF. But I for one have no recall of him saying this one exactly:

    FF: “Those who solve the first clue are more than half way to the treasure, metaphorically speaking.”

    That may be a common remembrance but not to me. Wow, the first clue is worth HALF way (meta/phorically speaking) the way to the treasure??

    Interesting point to me anyways! It is worth more than 4.5, so at leased 5 clues of of 9!!! Wow to that! Maybe even worth 6 of 9? I can actually relate to that statement. Hmm! So, that could metaphorically mean; there is a first clue that the following 5 clues are linked together by summation to the first, being as a combined descriptive to the first clue. Half way!

    Interesting!

    • Alsetenash: Another interpretation for you. If the first clue eliminates at least two states, would you not agree that you’re halfway there?

      • Zap,

        Yes of course, that is is precisely my thought of it . Half of a solve is solving the State to start..absolutely. That is my meaning I just posted . The first 5 or 6 clues are which State and where to begin in that State..essentially!

      • Zap, sorry . I have a correction to what you said.

        Alsetenash: Another interpretation for you. If the first clue eliminates at least two states, would you not agree that you’re halfway there?

        It doesn’t change what I said above in first response. What my correction means is ; Deducing first clue to mean the first clue eliminates 2 states is meaning half way I disagree with. Figuring out the first clue is half way means; you figured out THE State and where to start in that state by the first clues and the following supporting clues of the first clue.

        • OOPS!

          I said: by the first clues and the following supporting clues of the first clue.

          First “clues” was to be singular as “clue”

        • Ernie meenie miney Moe,
          Oh, to which state should I go?
          Two of them hold Yellowstone
          But it must be one state alone

          It’s the one that I have pinned
          Upon a map– it holds the wind.
          If I have to pick and choose
          I’ll go with this one, I can’t lose.

  10. Final – few hours to put one’s money where one’s mouth spouts. Time to move on over to the raffle link and buy a ticket. After all -you- know where the chest is…you have it solved…you are only waiting for the right weather…or your vacation days from work. Might as well -max out the credit card- for the children because you will be “paying it off” real soon. I am offering $1300 trade (via Forrest or Dal) for the bag of bill bits and $300 more for that neat plastic bag, which totals $1600 for the “winner.” Unless, you are philanthropic minded and the kids get that, too.

    • In steps a line voice of reason. Thanks LMN.

      Maybe folks could halt the bravado of certainty for another certainty…kids. Make your words actually make a difference, eh? Go buy some raffle tix confident people!

    • LMN, have you considered using the amount you’re willing to pay someone for their winning number, to own the bag of cash (if not donated), by spending that amount on tickets yourself? It would seem by doing so, you would have a very good chance that your numbers may be pulled.

      • Pdenver, great question! I cannot, with integrity, offer $1600 to purchase the bill bits AND buy $1600 of charitable gifts/tickets AND still pay for the monthly Christian school tuition of my children. So, we all make choices in our life. As a (semi-retired fundraising professional) I am relatively certain that my challenge “helped” to achieve and exceed the overall goal. In fact, I cannot even risk the purchase of a single ticket without bending the integrity of the offer to trade/purchase. Thanks for asking and challenging my motives. (I don’t know you, but you seem like a priceless soul.)

        • Thank you for your kind words. Please know I honestly wasn’t questioning/challenging your motives. I smile to see what has been risen so far for the children. Wishing you the best with your ticket(s).

          • My apologies. Just reread your response about not purchasing a ticket due to integrity issues.

    • LMN … I agree with you about annoyingly over-confident posters. But imploring us to move over to the raffle thread is patronizing, and encourages off-topic comments.

      • Well, you could have just said, “Hi, my name is Ken. I am a moderator and your last comment was just canned.” I respect your opinion, irrespective of the above 8 contiguous posts. I will just sign off tonight…

    • LMN—-

      Appreciate the offer. But for me if I were to win I would keep the $1300.00 in chewed up money. There are many rare coins and paper money to be collected. But do you realize how rare a $100.00 bill that has been through a Dachshund is (at least I think it was a Dachshund)?

      Extremely rare. I have a $20.00 that made it’s way through a schnauzer, but I intend to add to my collection if I win the cash. So thanks but no thanks.

  11. May 2015

    “Those who solve the first clue are more than half way to the treasure, metaphorically speaking.”

    “A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.”

    [Hunters can]… get to the treasure location with just a good map, the poem, and a decent knowledge of geography.

    Jan 2016

    “A good solve is frequently lost in a poor execution.”

    More than half the battle is figuring out the first clue; the remaining scant half is figuring out the other 8 clues. Apparently even those smart (lucky?) enough to get the first few clues correct are really struggling with “poor execution” as they “thread a tract through the wiles of nature and circumstance” and pass by, within 200 feet, of the treasure chest. So is there something about understanding geography that is partially helpful as related to understanding the other unsolved clues people have passed as they walked by the treasure chest, or is it that those clues are just that tough to figure out and understand?

    As far as educating one’s self in geography, this should give most people a pretty good education in the subject:

    https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-25-26.pdf

    Or a simpler guide to land features can be found here:

    http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/land_navigation_map_reading/identify-major-minor-terr.shtml

    • Or it could be a map used by pilots and includes things like SIDS and STARS used during approach and departure. I suggested this back in September or so.

      I like your army map idea too.

  12. – Do you intend to keep releasing occasional small hints for as long as you live? …

    FF: No sir.

    So if f had no intent to release any additional hints that will help in finding the treasure chest (stated in May 2015), does that mean that everything he has said since then does NOT have any useful hints in it for specifically finding the treasure chest?

    I can only imagine someone will say he was playing with the words in the question and that f has continued to release ‘frequent large’ hints instead.

    I find chasing ‘maybe’ hints to be far less useful than just listening to the things f specifically says about finding the chest. I am far more concerned with understanding ‘the how’ of solving the clues in the poem and the solution that takes me to the treasure chest; f has dropped a lot of crumbs related to this process over the years. That is why I compiled all of f’s comments in my Chasing Words of Forrest Fenn document.

    • I do believe that there is purpose in him sending things here to post as new posts . It is obvious to me, though it maybe seem foolish to some to consider. It is obvious he reads comments here IMO. It is why I post what I post sometimes . I expect a new ‘posting’ here, probably tomorrow or Monday lol. It has become a systemic pattern that I can’t help but notice. Clues , insights and hints are as abundant as the new posts are. How to subtleties to solve the poem is also within them. It matters not even that I am saying it. There will always be the anonymity perceived of this process. Therefore , diligence is not suspected nor conclusive.

      Eyes and mind wide open.
      “Eyes Roll” lol

    • JCM,
      As we read comments, and Q&A’s such as these above, I’m reminded of the “important possibility” comment.
      You stated ~ I am far more concerned with understanding ‘the how’ of solving the clues in the poem and the solution that takes me to the treasure chest…
      That mind set of “how” for me is, understanding how to read the poem as intended, more than, looking for what may or may not be a clue. Hints [ added or not ] clues [ extra or not ] possibly given over the years may be more an illusion than true… or hope we see. But your “crumbs” comment is imo spot on as to… how they might be helpful in understanding the poem properly rather than chasing hints and clues.

      In theory… all of them… the clues can be understood at home, doesn’t hint to anything other than explaining that “certainty beforehand” comment in understand how to read the poem. The botg only method approach group, now have that “crumb” to work with. lol, some may not like it, but that little piece of info may change a wrong thought process into a desirable workable botg searcher who may have overlooked what a clue refers to by thinking,.. it can ‘only’ be solved when I get there line of thinking… Hint? Clue? or thought provoking information? We each need to decide that for ourselves.

      That is one of the reason I like your – Chasing Words of Forrest Fenn document. It compiles the 7 years of crumbs for a side by side reviewing and analyzing “how” we look at the poem in a new light.
      Good job on your hard work.

  13. JCM write: “So is there something about understanding geography that is partially helpful as related to understanding the other unsolved clues people have passed as they walked by the treasure chest, or is it that those clues are just that tough to figure out and understand?”
    ——————————————————————————————-
    Yes, an understanding of scale.

    • Ken,
      Yep, agree. Size matters, or so I’m told…
      A mud puddle to an ant looks like an ocean.
      If you can’t walk sever miles ‘to’ your solve, don’t go.
      Your destination is small, but its location is huge.
      Not in close proximity to a human trail.

      But I’ll add, to understand the “scale” [geographically or otherwise] on which we seek, we need to understand what is being explained. Are we thinking to linear when reading the poem?

      You also stated; Searchers are forever dissecting everything he says, thinking that will be a new clue.
      Yep, imo, the mind set that fenn is handing out clues like candy leads to the kitchen sink solves… Every SB, every page in the book, every moment of his life, every book he or friends wrote, and on and on must now contain a clue… imo, that leads to a never ending rabbit hole, and helium heads.

      • The issue you have raised in the past about how searchers have solved the first two clues but can’t get any closer is also addressed by an understanding of geographic scale, I believe.

        • Out of curiosity what is your scale in yards or miles?
          Personally I lean to a 200 yard area [all clues ], maybe even smaller [ in one theory I have ].
          However, [ in another theory ] the total, in understanding the poem differently, is approx 2000 miles. But that only works if the poem describes all the clues on a large geographical scale, and brings one to a specific location…

          • Good question, seeker.

            All of my clues fit within a rectangle roughly 30 miles by 20 miles. Each of the nine clues would then be spread out within that rectangle. But as one approaches the final clue, the distance separating them decreases.

            If you are considering an area no bigger than 200 yards, I can see how that might clash with some comments that Forrest has made.

            By the way, as you can see from posts below mine and yours, searchers do not seem to be the least bit interested in geographic scale. They’re too busy hobnobbing among themselves. Some of those people may have no idea what is meant by geographic scale. I guarantee you … Forrest does, and his poem is proof of that.

            Ken

          • Three Meanings of Geographic Scale:

            The concept of scale can be confusing, insofar as it has multiple referents. Cartographic scale refers to the depicted size of a feature on a map relative to its actual size in the world.

            Analysis scale refers to the size of the unit at which some problem is analyzed, such as at the county or state level.

            Phenomenons scale refers to the size at which human or physical earth structures or processes exist, regardless of how they are studied or represented.

            Although the three referents of scale frequently are treated independently, they are in fact interrelated in important ways that are relevant.

            (All of the above is shamelessly plagiarized from: http://geog.ucsb.edu/~montello/pubs/scale2.pdf )

          • Ken,
            Thanks for the answer…
            I wonder if other would scale their area?

            On another note, you said; “If you are considering an area no bigger than 200 yards, I can see how that might clash with some comments that Forrest has made.”

            Which comments are you referring to?
            I do like a good debate…

          • Ken and Seeker – I can fit my solve in a 10 mile square box more or less. – As the crow flies – JDA

          • I guess that to be perfectly accurate, I could fit my solve in a right triangle that measures about 12 miles X 10 miles X about 15.5 miles No, I did not compute it as “A”squared plus “B” squared = “C” squared… I just used a rough guess for the “C” side. JDA

          • Hey JDA,

            From your WWWH location, lets say its at 10,000 feet elv. for discussion sake. You look down and see the home of brown and it is say 7,000 feet elv. It doesn’t look like its that far( like an ocean mirage distance) then from there you continue in flow of the poem. Is that like yours at your location? Just wondering for your “distance ” you speak of is relative to mt example. You know I am not looking in your State of focus. I am just curious if you flow the same thinking as me. Because at this point it is ‘Half Way There”

          • Alsetenash;

            If I am at wwwh my elevation is, let’s say, 8,000′ My hob = let’s say 7,000′. I change directions and go uphill to my END and Water High and Blaze and am now at say 10,000′. None of these measurements are accurate in real life, so don’t (anyone) go looking for places where these numbers fit. They are just used as an example.

            Does this answer your question? JDA

          • JDA

            Yes that was a perfect example as to what I was getting at. My numbers also were just figurative also without any bearing . Just more of a poem walking movement flow question. Just was curious how someone’s thinking process with the poem compared to mine is . Yours was a perfect example. Sure is different from mine. Just interesting!

  14. JCM wrote: “So if f had no intent to release any additional hints that will help in finding the treasure chest (stated in May 2015), does that mean that everything he has said since then does NOT have any useful hints in it for specifically finding the treasure chest?”
    ————————————————————————————————-
    I think that would be a fair conclusion. Searchers are forever dissecting everything he says, thinking that will be a new clue. IMO, that searcher tendency reeks of desperation.

    I am so glad he emphasized the word “geography”. Searchers think they know the geography of the Rocky Mountains. Actually, all that most searchers seem to know, based on poster comments here and YouTube videos, is what they have gleaned from pop culture. Hence, the most “popular” locations in the Rockies: the Yellowstone area, Cimarron and Angel Fire areas of New Mexico, and Taos, just north of Santa Fe. It’s almost as if some searchers have learned about geography only from TTOTC.

    I could name a couple dozen locations in the Rockies that I don’t recall anyone in this forum ever having mentioned, apparently because those locations are not part of the American “pop culture” vernacular.

    Not speaking for anyone but myself, but it would appear that searchers are not sufficiently curious about geography to seek out, or learn about, less obvious places.

    But then it’s well known that Americans’ lack of knowledge about the subject of geography is breathtaking.

    Ken

    • I can at least agree with your last statement, Ken. It reminds me of a time I visited a friend who lived in a city that she had been living in for 4 or 5 years. We were driving on a bridge across a river – a major bridge over a river the flowed through the downtown area. I asked her what the name of the river was and she said that she didn’t know! I was absolutely floored by that response!

        • tru story !! I found flippers where you would least expect it…on one search couple years ago ! The real question…where is the correct start line?

          • The correct starting line is at your home..The correct starting line of the poem, for me is, “As I have gone…”

            The starting line for the quest itself = “Begin it where…” for me at least. JDA

          • Whichever “Starting Line” you choose, for me the finish line = “I give you title to the gold”!!! JDA

          • JDA
            Figuratively…if everyone lined up at “their” particular place of parking to begin the search….on the exact same day….there would be only ONE person parked at the correct place. Maybe…an outside chance that there may be two…but I seriously doubt it.
            Have a nice trip…

          • “…if everyone lined up at “their” particular place of parking to begin the search….on the exact same day….there would be only ONE person parked at the correct place.”

            That is one of the most poignant comments I’ve read on this site.
            Thanks ken.

          • DG is an international superstar in the TTOTC (The Thrill Of The Chase).

            She, along with her sisters, have been on News presentations in the USA and New Zealand (I believe, or was it Australia?)

            Somewhere on this site are links to the actual film footage…

            Best of luck to DG and her sisters… in Montana.

            (Hope it warms up soon!)

          • Haha super starrrrr i think it played all over china too Im
            More like that song lee marvin sings tho i was born under a wandering star

          • Yep the Kreis sisters 😛

            You may or may not find the chest, but no one will forget your answer to that reporter.. “Cause we didn’t find it on that side.” 😛

          • Lol i know it was hard to think when your put on the spot and then i said diggin shovel hahahha. And then chased by moose poor nick with dateline thought he was gonna die cause i ran and left him standing there with the camera with my other two sisters Was fun u should be in one iron will

          • If you found it and there was a movie about u who would u pick to be you I pic mellisa mcarthy im
            The funny one while searching

          • U wanna be barbra eden j diggens ???? A jeanie in a bottle finds the treasure i would sware she cheated

          • Not the genie part, the silly part. 🙂 I loved her on that show. She was great on Andy Griffith too! 🙂

          • I’ve never thought about a movie from it, but if there was, I’d probably go with Matt Damon.

          • Yea he a good one Of course they will be a movie. The thrill of the chase Ours would be somewhat silliy 3 sisters who each wanna be the leader of the pack One who has to use the bathroom after every mile one who is like what the heck is that noise is it a grizz and another who aimlessly wonders off and loses us and we spend half our time screaming for her i think this year it will be found by someone . If not us definitly someone is hot

          • Someone is as hot as Ojo Caliente DG.
            Lot’s of purging lately.

            If you find the treasure, will you leave a few nuggets for the one behind?

            Montana sure seems to be the place.

          • Sure ill leave them the bracelet that says ps can yall
            Please go give this to the ole
            Coot

          • I think it would be a hoot if you left the bracelet where the the treasure was found.

            Well Forrest, I would like to give you the bracelet back but….

            I bet he would be able & willing to go back there to get what was once his & probably wants to wear the magic till he passes & then some.

          • I know you don’t mean that DG.
            We would like for him to work for the bracelet a bit.
            I like the idea of playing a poker hand or few with him.
            Sorry, no pool tables in this transaction for the same.

          • Hi Diggin, I like your music choice. That Lee Marvin song, Born Under a Wandrin’ Star, is one of my favorites

          • For my movie, It would have to be some old fart, probably with a big belly – Wilford Brimley perhaps, although he is a tad older than I 82 vs 74+ JDA

        • I got it.
          Cabin Creek it is.
          Staying positive without going overboard is a +.
          Oh so many winter dreams will hold.
          When the snow melts we will be searching.
          If mother nature could only betray cold.

          • Cabin creek ohhhh heck no have u ever walked on that ledge up that creek And grizzley up there attacked a man while we were there I wont walk there again Beautiful but the ole coot didnt carry the treasure thru that gorge

          • Oh, but it is in grizzly country.
            No, he didn’t.

            Ah! Red Canyon is your game?
            Where the 16 yr olds trek began from Paradise?

            Below Big Sky & North of Hebgen is where it’s at.

          • I have a Cabin Creek near Mt. Rogers here in VA. I used to fish it for native trout, as a teen. Man that brings back memories.

          • Have so many figured it out?
            All that have it are right in there own mind.
            This winter must be too long for the ones who know.

  15. “Those who solve the first clue are more than half way to the treasure, metaphorically speaking.” That should be an eye opener for many…

    • “Those who solve the first clue are more than half way (Through the Poem) to the treasure, metaphorically speaking.”f

      Is that what he is saying?

      In the way I look at the Poem has been discounted by many. The way I built the last line of the Poem is ” First Scalp for Custer”. I can explain how I got there if anyone wants to know.

      • Gey
        If you read his answer as it stands…can you make the same assumptions? Clearly…Fenn is saying that the correct first clue gets you more than half way TO the treasure…(not half way through the poem). I do like hearing other ideas whether I agree or not….There is only ONE correct solve and until that Bronze box is found and retrieved…it could be anything.

        • As far as I know…. no one has confirmed the first clue. We can follow the Poem precisely but where does one start. I start to use geography when I step out of my front door every morning. Hmmm thinking… July 17, 1876.

          • So what I am saying is, when you read the Poem, your are reading the hints. The hints will develop into clues.

    • Hi Ken — for me, the first clue kills two states. The first clue + the second clue puts me at a unique starting point on the map. It is not at all a famous location, but it is extremely specific. I’m sure many searchers have been by it, but had no inkling as to the significance. But at least a few *did* understand, or at least had a strong suspicion, that they had the right starting point. However, without figuring out the next clue, those searchers that were on the right track may have lost confidence and given up on that starting location.

        • I’ve said it a few times & will say it again.
          The 1st clue & the last clue (which I think is the blaze), 9th clue have something in common.

          It appears F is telling us if we do not have the 1st clue & the importance of it – we don’t have a chance.

  16. Can someone help? Under what subject heading is the post Forrest recently made answering questions from a middle school class?

    He told that class they should not start in the middle of the poem in response to a question. In this post he says finding the first clue puts you halfway there– I would just like to compare the two answers, but cannot find the middle school post. Appreciate the help.

  17. HMA;

    If you honestly think that we are in the same area, email me at SculptorJDA at aol dot com. I have a short one question test, with three answers. If you answer correctly, we are possibly searching the same area. If you can not correctly answer this short one question test, we are NOT in the same area. The question does NOT involve YOUR search area at all – only mine. What do you have to lose. JDA

    • JDA – So you want me to take another test? I’ve finished f’s test and want to take a bit of a break from those tests. His was hard enough.

      I think this will be the year our teacher will be handing out report cards. Did you pass f’s test?

      I haven’t left MT so if you are still in WY we aren’t searching the same spot. If you are still in WY, it’s highly likely that you received a totally different test than I did.

  18. Kia Ora.
    The following is my opinion only.
    This post is very encouraging to me. The last answer that Forrest gave about solving the first clue and being over halfway to the treasure is important. It now tells me what the first clue is.
    Good luck with your hunt Iron, but I think if you knew what Forrest was meaning by this you would not be searching where you are.
    Good luck all.

  19. The sandwich and flashlight are not clues because this whole thing is not a problem or mystery.

    However, they are relevant.

    Forrest is truly a man of words.

      • Yes, I agree it is the first clue OF (alluding to) the first clue though. This line you say is the first clue; realized by the next clues following it-points to it. The clues are in consecutive order as clues but the first 5 or 6 clues point to the main first clue, which equals to half way there to the chest. This is what 2 people here are debating about 🙂

        I think anyways.

        IMO

  20. To Seeker … no “Reply” option under your message upthread, so I will respond here.

    You wrote: “On another note, you said; “If you are considering an area no bigger than 200 yards, I can see how that might clash with some comments that Forrest has made. Which comments are you referring to?”
    ————————————————————————————————
    Don’t remember your exact words, but you asked how could it be that searchers correctly identified the first two clues but couldn’t get any closer? What could they have overlooked? The implication of your theory was that all the clues are bunched up together into a fairly small space. Given your recent comments of “200 years”, I can see why you would ask that question.

    If you would zoom out a bit (use a smaller scale theory), the clues could be spread out over a larger area and wouldn’t seem so clumped together. Then, it would be possible to see how a searcher could correctly identify 2 or 3 or 5 or 6 clues correctly but still not get to the treasure, owing to all the land area and features between clues that require addition decision-making.

    Once I am satisfied with the first clue, then I prefer to use the 1:24K series of maps. Given the rectangle I described above, I do need to look at adjacent maps, but that’s okay, as the searcher can move about by simply online map scrolling.

    This is not to say that my solution is correct. It may very well be wrong. But it does respond well to Forrest’s implications about geographic scale, both in his verbal comments and in his poem.

    More generally, some of the disagreements among posters here could be understood better if posters would simply identify their geographic scale for their chosen location. JDA’s announced scale seems reasonable, if perhaps a bit too large. But then mine might be too small. I do like a smaller scale to begin with, then try to zoom in to a larger scale for an analysis of spot elevations, among other things, at the ninth clue site.

    Ken (in Texas)

    • Ken [TX]
      I think I said 200 yards…not years. If not, that is what I meant in regards to the scale. Also, look at it from a 3D perspective and not a 2D map. If we take into consideration all the first two clues comments, and others, such as; Little Indy “can not get closer” It seems that the searchers “went by” “walked past” the remaining clues and the chest [ at least some did ~ maybe all did, we just don’t know at this point how many ].

      Logically, each searcher’s solve has different scale to their theory… some on the blogs have mentioned 1 mile while others mention 20 or more… Hypothetically, for any or many of the first two clues searchers had similar distance / scale [ 1 mile to 20 miles ]. The one thing they all have in common is, they kept going. But [ and this s a big but ] Little Indy or anyone else “can not get closer” to might mean… all the clues are represented in that smaller area.

      I think were the mistake might be made is that elusive distance of “Not far, but too far to walk” WhatIF the distance is of a 3D factor or elevation?
      This would give “And take it in…” to refer to a view or take it in by viewing from this locations vantage point. Scenario, we watch the waters, but we stay at this location because All the clues and the chest might be within this small area.

      I understand that many will not grasp this idea… they may feel that a canyon must be traveled, or guess a distance from line 7 of the poem, or even the distance of any given canyon in their area. I believe that is an illusion in our minds, and this location is more a vantage point… what fenn sees at his final resting place. And the need to nail down the first clue.

      Above answer to a question; “Very few people tell me exactly where they are searching so there is no way for me to know. Some searchers have been within 200 feet.”
      The original distance was 500′ So is it reasonable to say that those [ different searchers ] within the first two clue location may have traveled in different direction away from the first two clues and the remainder of the clues as well and some walked very near the spot the chest lays in wait?
      This would place the clues within my small scale and the spot the chest is hidden as well.

      I stated 200 ‘yards’ for leeway for the view/vantage point and directions the searchers at the correct location may have traveled. Example; IF they wanted to go into the canyon… there may be more than one way to achieve this [ drive a road, walk a path or a few different paths or go back the way they came etc. ]

      In this same theory, it is possible that hoB might be a clue prior to wwwh… and another reason why the searchers all left. They went to look for hoB somewhere else. I can read the poem as stanza 2 first three line are what is put in below hoB. IF you look at that stanza’s first sentence as a viewing of what the waters are doing.

      OK, you’re going to ask, why would we concern ourselves with wwh if we know hoB, right? You wouldn’t… you should know that hoB is above this and possibly the location of the chest itself, and more than likely within my scale parameter and maybe the 500′ distance.

      I think the problem is; many want this poem to be a stomping out of 9 different location, almost force fitting what the clue refer to as a large scale travel. Their reasoning is; To get out in nature like fenn wanted. Well, the poem has done, just that in four stated, and over a 2000 mile mountain range.

      But was the poem clues intended to be read this way? or is it our own illusion to read it that way?

      • Seeker,

        I read your writ and I am amazed! You and I have quite similarities in how we have approached this poem. You took the time to write it so I will too. We are much the same that I was a bit intrigued . My approach is of a scientific, CSI , investigative way I decided to approach this poem. The person writing the poem doesn’t have to be of this mind set for this process of thinking to be valid. By way of Investigative means is how crimes are solved non the less.

        What you said here is the key point:

        Quote:

        “I understand that many will not grasp this idea… they may feel that a canyon must be traveled, or guess a distance from line 7 of the poem, or even the distance of any given canyon in their area. I believe that is an illusion in our minds, and this location is more a vantage point… what fenn sees at his final resting place. And the need to nail down the first clue.”

        My investigative conclusion are as such: The numbers language is 4,6,8,6.

        (3) main clues consisting of 4 lines ( 1 main clue of 2 lines combined) The controls in an experiment. Constants. Fixed, not subject to change of description by such variables like seasons, weather. What is where to “start” from and the “what” that is at the final location.
        (6 lines)-Subsidiary/supporting clues of the 3 main clues. That are at the start point and at final location- descriptive.
        (8) lines – Hints. Help in analysis , Identification,
        (6) lines – Not clues nor hints-just a part of the storytelling of the poem.
        Total 24 lines.

        All the clues are in stanzas 2,3,4 in consecutive order. All others are hints and story. So I start clues at “Begin” and they end at “peace”. When you know where to start you are half way there. Yes, a point of fact in this case.

        So from WWWH there is allot to referring a ‘Point of View” . There are supporting clues of “view” . One can see where they are are to go and it looks not far from the vantage point. But one has to go Down first then Forward direction. Being 80 and there is a road , he drove down .parked and continued to walk to location.

        The rest of the clues and hints are all at location withing 200′-500’ in the area. The 2 other main clues are right at or very very near the location ( the why he said more than half way there when at first clue.) The sub clues and hints that all come after wwwh in the poem are somewhere between that start point and at the final location but mostly at the location is where they are. From wwwh it is about the vantage point from above looking and proceeding by going down first.

        The blaze and tarry scant and marvel gaze are right there at location- BOTG are required.

        Sound familiar to you Seeker?

        • Alsetenash,
          My response is not to be taken as disbelief in your thoughts… however, for dissecting what you have stated I have a couple of questionable problems… One being; “But one has to go Down first then Forward direction. Being 80 and there is a road , he drove down .parked and continued to walk to location.”
          Umm. This is a needle in my side when someone says fenn drove out any clues… So can you clarify whether you think fenn is telling us to drive the long distance or did fenn have to actually drive out the clues to get to the parking point?
          I’m just wondering why fenn just didn’t drive as close as he could to the hide… or is there only one way in and out and that is by the clues, even for fenn?

          When it comes to actual clues vs. hints… I’m always at a lost. fenn calls everything a clue, so for me I don’t actually look for what a clues is, but just attempt to read the poem that makes the most sense and worry about clues at the end of a theory.

          Overall, I see the same mindset as to think about the poem… but you seem to be using the same 9 line approach as many for finding clues.

          The one thing I do know about investigation… it’s a fact finding mission. If pieces of the information is not reliable enough to be provable.. it becomes a hunch, and inadmissible.

          Example; I can read the poem straight forward as most can, maybe even a bit better… But lets throw in a WhatIF… and attempt to find a factual avenue to consider, other than guessing a location for anything. What if ? the poem describes everything seen on location but, the mirror image of the poem gives up 9 specific need to know answers?

          I like ISA lake for this theory… mirror image for AS I. It is difficult to see but is may just be that “know where to start” could the rest of the answers be similar?
          If we look closely at the poem, many words mean just the opposite. Warm and Cold for example. Does new and old work the same? Halt and Walk?… In one theory I see these words hinting on how to read the poem… straightforwards in honesty of the location and mirror image giving the exact location they all fit….hell, That would take me with my lack of word usages a life time to write a poem… but maybe it only took fenn 15 years to do it.

          LOL, so do you still think~ You and I have quite similarities in how we have approached this poem?
          I can read the poem in different ways… including stomping out point to point. Only the stomping method always has me guessing or forcing a clue to work and can work in tens of thousands of places throughout the RM’s

          • Seeker,

            I appreciate your response. I did have anticipation of your questions and analysis of my writ in response to your writ. You ask me:

            – “LOL, so do you still think~ You and I have quite similarities in how we have approached this poem?.

            I say yes to that in your original writ that I responded to but no to your response writ of mine from your original. It appears to me, maybe incorrectly surmised on my part, that you may not be in absolute in your mind of your theory. I am, but still open to suggestions that may tweak it. I am fixed in conclusion of my established parameters though.
            The poem is really simple to me now since I have in my mind what I just explained .

            You asked-“Umm. This is a needle in my side when someone says fenn drove out any clues… So can you clarify whether you think fenn is telling us to drive the long distance or did fenn have to actually drive out the clues to get to the parking point?
            I’m just wondering why fenn just didn’t drive as close as he could to the hide… or is there only one way in and out and that is by the clues, even for fenn?

            I remember watching a video where FF speaks to a querent in response to the question of his meaning of “To Far To Walk” . He basically said ( I cannot remember quote exactly) in a telling of a story; that he walked all the way to an area or spot that he was interested in getting to and seeing it. Initially,in his decision to walk to it , it didn’t seem too be that far. By the time he got to the said area or spot he thought to himself.” Well, that was too far to walk”.

            We all read this in the past few days:
            “FF: Those who solve the first clue are more than half way to the treasure, metaphorically speaking.”

            These 2 points are/were a huge statement for me that added a dot in drawing up my perimeters.

            So my answer to you is this in theory: When he first found or picked this location for TC and his bones, he was at the WWWH location. From there he saw his spot of interest in the distance from this distance and walked to the spot and it became his special spot at this special area/place to him. He originally wrote the poem from this first journey of starting point of wwwh to the discovery of said special spot by walking. By the time he got there it was all the beauty to him and it was a special place. He thought to himself perhaps that it was too far to walk from wwwh.

            So, he wrote the poem reflecting his start of- at WWWH as a main clue. Walking to his sweet spot from wwwh he writes what I call sub clues and hints that are in close proximity of wwwh. When he is at or close to spot by 0 to 500 feet, it is here that he writes 2 more main clues, sub clues and hints. That is why the first clue in the poem is half way there metaphorically speaking. He is saying half way there as figuratively in of the poem and clues but not literal in walking distance as half way there from starting at wwwh. Because how could it be halfway from where you start in the literal sense of distance? It is not at all logical in terms of space and distance because your start cannot be halfway to finish line unless there is another starting point before his starting point . He literally did walk it at least one time as per the poems creation. It was too far to walk for the chest placement from there though. So, when he actually physically hid the chest in two trips he did it from parking a car and taking it to his sweet spot at his special area from whatever parking spot close by.

            From wwwh one could potentially drive from there instead of walking if perhaps there was a road from there that could be walked on as same path also and not miss any clues along the way. You could technically potentially see and solve all applicable clues available at wwwh, then drive to the next clues that were seen from there.

            I think that is possible too.

            He wrote the poem from by his original start and walk-literal. The poems first clue is half way there in clue solving Metaphorically speaking of the poem. Because the rest of the clues are mainly at the spot of chest.

            Phew!

            Understand ,I hope.

        • Shane, this looks quite reasonable to me. Do you think he flew to an airport with the treasure or drove from Santa Fe. I’m not sure how long the drive would be from Santa Fe and a lot of folks think he might have flown and then drove. But I like your point of “view”. 🙂

          • Thanks Bob,

            You said:

            Shane, this looks quite reasonable to me. Do you think he flew to an airport with the treasure or drove from Santa Fe. I’m not sure how long the drive would be from Santa Fe and a lot of folks think he might have flown and then drove. But I like your point of “view”. 🙂

            The question has some minute bearing on my parameters so to speak. With all we probably know the same ff quotes and Q&A on this topic of the how he got the chest to where ever. I would think that he would have flown then rented a vehicle and drove to spot as is highly probable by what he has said.

            As best I remember:

            He hid it in 2 trips from vehicle to spot in one afternoon- so 12 noon to 5:59 pm is afternoon, 6 hour window. Not specific to how many hours he took in that measurement of afternoon time.

            His wife didn’t even know the day he went and did this. He could have done it at same time during other reasons for flying or gave other reasons for a trip or flight somewhere- it could mean either, but it doesn’t really matter which.

            The further the state the longer the flight time. Airport landings and takeoff expedience varies also.

            I am more inclined to think that he flew,drove and hid all in one day , Hid it during afternoon and flew daylight hours to and back all in one day. He had a plan and an amount of time to do this all in one day. He hid it in summertime where daylight can be from 6:00 am to 9:00 pm easy. He would not want anyone to know at all. So , no credit card for hotel or payments. He could just do a pre-auth on credit card for car rental as is usually required or a large cash deposit ,either way final sale would be cash so no record of purchases and no pre auth’s are on credit card record anyways , just purchases ect. Harder to track by a sleuth of any kind. Smart!

            So, in applying this; one can add this to their potential which state it is at of likely to least likely. Just in their investigative formula.

            Or he could have just driven in NM closer to home. But that is least likely because of his not answering of if he rented a car or not means he did!

            This is my deduction on that.

          • If he flew, he would have had to do this prior to his last airman medical’s expiration date. Do we know if and when he quit flying? He sold his plane about 9 years ago. When did he hide the loot? His plane was registered to JPL Properties in Solano, NM. Not sure what JPL means but it isn’t the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. If I am wrong on the dates I don’t think it’s too far off. If he let his flight medical lapse prior to hiding the treasure, it may provide useful info on his timeline and distance. Just my wandering thoughts

          • Hello Bob,

            I don’t know the dates and any details of is pilot license and his medical clearance stuff but those things all would be in consideration. I thought the same but I only know about drivers license stuff. When a person reaches a certain age they have to take more frequent medical exams for license and the expiry dates for licence is shorter . I think we saw on here a picture of the check he received for payment of sale for his plane in 2004? Either way, he could have just rented a small plane he is licensed to fly. He could have flown before any lapse in license and or just before he started his treatment and medications for his illness that would cancel out his qualified medical fitness requirements.

            Good thoughts on this Bob. Nice to see.

          • Bob,

            What state are you focused on if you don’t mind me asking? I can’t remember if you said or not.

          • Honestly, I was warming to the idea of Colorado. But, I may have to get in a long line of searchers there.

          • Bob,

            Are you saying there is allot of people searching in Colorado? I thought Colorado had the lowest amount of searchers? It sounds like youare searching elsewhere also.

          • For the first six months I’ve been trying to solve the poems’ clues, I was sure it would be in New Mexico. There was a guy who lived in Taos named Malcolm Brown. He was an artist and I’m sure he knew Mr. Fenn. Then I looked into that and discovered Brown’s daughter was connected to Mr. Fenn and may still be today. Perhaps the Fechin Gallery. So, I sent a colleague to scout around south of Taos. But he could not even reach the creek because of the scrub brush.

            Then I thought of the San Antonio creek and hot springs NW of Santa Fe, but so many people go there it’s hard to think no one has found it.

            Then I discovered that the last Navajo Code Talker lived in Crystal, New Mexico. His name? John Brown.

            So, I’m progressing northward and Colorado seems to be near enough to drive or fly, from Santa Fe in one day. Treasure creek looks interesting from my computer and in my mind I would think a ledge in the rocks near a waterfall would make a good hiding spot.
            So many places to search….so little time.

          • Bob,

            Looks like you have done allot of research and analysis. Interesting ideas you have/had for sure. I started this poem solve for mental exorcise for my brain lol. I do work place OH&S investigations and the odd corporate accounting investigations . I never intended to do BOTG for this but i just might one day.

            I don’t watch TV so this fun for me. I think that after all my research I can do I have come to the conclusion that to solve the poem is best from a very simple way of looking at it through FF. In my current solve it is all really simple facts and sense of it. Everything is really easy and simple once I figured out the location to start. My problem is there are 3 locations in the same area to start from haha. All within 60 miles of each have a level of strength to each but I have I think is the strongest. I thought to myself; If FF did pick this area the difficulty is the simplicity . Which 3 areas are correct because you can easily see all 3 areas as almost equally in solve. Smart Mr.FF I thought. 3 potential locations all perfect in possibility to clues realized but only one is correct. I am like thinking, he wrote the same poem for three locations here in this area and just picked one that was special and hid it there. All 3 make sense so clearly to me darn it, mow which one is it? All within 60 miles

          • I am totally on board with the simplicity of the solve. Just wish I was simple enough to solve it. I think that’s what he meant by involving a child’s viewpoint (or something to that effect). Keep doing what your doing and keep me posted. Good luck!

          • Thanks Bob,

            I just the other day had my AHA! moment for conclusion. It s really simple.

            I live by this quote and it rang in my head after this AHA!:

            “The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.”

            It sure applies to this Poem riddle!

            The difficulty is the simplicity.

          • Bob

            I forgot to add. That the 1 of the 3 in the area that I think is the strongest potential of them, is the one that requires the least amount of research and knowing of FF’s stories and history . Needed only to capture 3 things about ff to use to solve the one spot. Keep it simple!

          • He said he hid the loot when he was 79-80 in 2009-2010. He wasn’t specific on purpose and his explanation was exactly yours and my conversation lol. So no one would look at is car rentals odometer. So, he didn’t say yes or no to if he had rented a car or used his own car when he was asked about the day he took 2 trips from his car to hide the chest.

          • Well Bob;

            In another three years you will have worked your way up to Wyoming, where I am pretty sure it is at. Hope it doesn’t take three months, much less three years to prove my point.

            Good luck in NM and CO. JDA

          • JDA, Thanks for the good wishes. I’m really a patient person. I’m rooting for everyone and would love to hear who got it right. Do you think it will be found by one of the bloggers or will we all be surprised?

          • Bob;

            Without being boastful, I think I have a pretty fair chance of finding it fairly soon. JDA

          • Haha, I think from what I read it will be an eight year ache by all but not a 9 year one though.:) Until proven otherwise of course.

          • Bob;

            Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. I have to find it first.

            IF I were to find it, I would meet with Forrest to give back the bracelet.

            I would want to discuss the legalities of owning the treasure.

            I would want to discuss whether Forrest wants the location disclosed.

            I would want to discuss keeping the treasure “intact”, and how that might be accomplished.

            I would like to know more about each treasure item etc. etc. etc. JDA

          • B Miller-if that’s your real name

            Are you going to let another search season slip by, cheering other folks on?
            Even if you simply visit one of the 4 states you can tell yourself you took part.
            Like f says, why die with more than 50 dollars in your pocket, I say live a little.
            For the last year I’ve been dealing with an inlaw who’s bedridden, I keep telling myself that’ll never be me.
            Tell you what, you can chip in for gas*

          • B Miller-“…how much gas do you need?”

            No, no, you don’t get to sit out this adventure…..once we get there, you can wait in the car if you want..
            Besides you look like you might have some Willie Nelson traveling music, can’t find mine.

          • Dang, your PSYCHIC! Willie should write one about this search, or at least the searchers. I just need some confidence to go with my motivation. I’ll guard the car.

        • Wow, I was just reading “Forrest Gets Mail” listings on this blog and in his response to one person ( I pasted blow) made we laugh! I never saw this ” Gets mail” before for I actually only saw the ones starting at #12 I think. Never looked back to read the others.

          He said in response to the college student,”
          FF said ” Seetak, since you took the time to write me a long email I feel obligated to respond in kind, even though yours was the 6,864th one to enter my inbox.”

          Those are my number break down of my lines in numbers of as I said above:

          4 lines consist of 3 main clues( 1 clue is 2 lines combined + 2 lines =2 main clues.

          6 lines-sub/supportive clues
          8 line are hints
          6 lines are not clues/hints but are of story.

          24 lines.

          I don’t think FF was intending that sequence relative to as I have .
          Just a funny coincidence I noticed today. lol.

          4,6,8,6 though in reverse number sequence of mine, same non the less!.

          Haha. Just a funny point of recognition for me.

          • Alsetenash –

            Can I call you Shane?

            I’m very glad to see that you understand coincidence.

            Lugnutz

          • Lugnutz,

            Yes, to me coincidence is really synchronicity;but coincidence is easier to say for a commonly understood term for an ordained sequence of events.

            Yes, I am Shane. Named after the book and movie.

          • Shane –

            What I am emphasizing is that these times when searchers say That can’t be coincidence, what they are referring to is coincidence.

            Brett has a 1 9 and 10 in his letter so my solve at 1 9 10 must be correct. It can’t be coincidence. Actually that’s what coincidence means. It’s why the word exists. We needed to describe and definitely what’s happening when people see a correlation where no such exists.

            I hope you agree, you seem cool enough.

            Lugnutz

          • Lugnutz,

            Oh for sure we mean the same just as you just said. Like Carl Jung in definition of synchronicity of “meaningful coincidences” if they occur with no causal relationship yet seem to be meaningfully related.

            Same thing you say. Same as me lol.

            Thanks man!

          • There are as many coincidences, wormholes as rabbit holes.
            All infinite possibilities in our minds.

          • Jake,

            Your quote:

            “There are as many coincidences, wormholes as rabbit holes.
            All infinite possibilities in our minds.”

            Absolutely agree. Subjected to all kinds of mental madness in this I have suffered ! Haha

  21. Seeker- you explore several possibilities, and they are reasonable, but-
    The way I look at the chase is to analyze everything from the hidey spot. f knew exactly where he wanted to hide the chest so I believe that’s where he started from. To end up at this spot, he began with the Rocky’s, then the State, then the general area. (clue 1) At this point I believe he needed a landmark or jumping off spot, which turned out to be WWWH. ( clue 2)
    The remainder of the poem describes the specific path to the chest.
    If you don’t know the correct WWWH you might as well stay home and play Canasta.

    • Emment ~ “If you don’t know the correct WWWH you might as well stay home and play Canasta.”

      How I wish fenn stated that the way you did. But unfortunately, fenn refers to the “first clue” in that comment… you have wwwh in your theory as the send clue, so I’m a bit confused.

      You also stated ~ “The way I look at the chase is to analyze everything from the hidey spot.”
      This sounds like you’re working backwards… Again, I’m a bit confused.

      Personally, I don’t think a state [ by name or contained in a border line ] is involved. Sure I can see the possibilities…such as… new and old NM. Treasures MT. Why must I go WY. heavy loads and water high CO… But I think attempting to find a state first is a long shot at best, and almost force fits a guess to what the other clues should be because you hope a “state” is the first clue.

      I’m not putting down your ideas… I’m dissecting the possibilities. So I look at the “jumping off” part of your theory as still very difficult to narrow down all those wwwh possibilities in any given state. I would need more info about how you may conclude one specific wwh to all the others, or otherwise, it still sounds like a dart toss at a map.

      I mean, if wwh was a dam, how many dams are in each state??? and would you have to search each area at every dam in that sate and hope to get lucky with the first dam guess.

        • I liked your cooking class analogy way up thread…mixing the ingredients w/o the bowl was a great way of looking @ the Chase. No bowl…big mess ! I now have images of boulders, waders, rafts, paddles etc. being stirred…hoping for a real nice cake. Geez…the freakin’ cartoons just don’t stop.

        • Seeker
          …”with the first dam guess.” yuk yuk

          Something just occurred to me, you and Cynthia search-wise are complete opposites. While she is out there amongst the prickly pear, you’re like the cerebral dude from Xmen. Not hating on people in wheelchairs, mind you.

          It’s killing me not to throw some ideas/ help your way, but I am going to let you flounder another few months.

          I would be shocked, if you didn’t agree with my beginning especially, how it explains many of f’s Faux pas(s) (????)

          Not bragging honestly, just that my partner is a bit of a dingbat, frustrating when one person has to do all of the thinking.
          At some point I will get word to you, thru Dal or Goofy

          • theycallme9clues

            “not bragging honestly, just that my partner is a bit of a dingbat, frustrating when one person has to do all of the thinking.” …really?

            jeez, your partner must be sooo sooo lucky to have you and your gargantuanly over-sized brain, mate (cough.. cough)

            “удачи в охоте”
            ..it’s latin btw 🙂

          • Curious fellow,
            I think ‘dingbat partner’ is a Latin medical term for dementia/ Alzheimer’s/ whatever ailment my buddy is struggling with.

          • oh, sorry 9clues – my bad

            over here in NZ, dingbat means ‘as thick as two planks’

            ..which def includes me – even on a ‘clever day’ when all three of my brain-cells are firing at once. 🙂

        • jeez ken, remind me never to ask YOU to bake me a good ol’ home-made cake.

          ..unless i have to break out of prison, then build a raft to escape down some distant river.

          sorta like an episode of ‘Tom Sawyer Goes Bad’
          ..metaphorically speaking of course 🙂

          • CurioHobobit,
            I would gladly “bake” you a special cake anytime…next time I’m in Colorado checking out the flood damage I’ll pick up some special ingreds.. Wait ’til you taste the marvel glazing….mmmm.
            Best
            Walter Wego (that’s ancient Lithuanian for…NoGotsaClue)

      • My thought is there’s a description in the first stanza which tells a specific geographical point on a map once figured out. Then, the correct wwwh can be ascertained easily. If it’s to be done this way, one gets assurance that the wwwh picked is the correct one from the many.

  22. soaker- first, there’s no n in emmett.
    I believe that each of the nine sentences is a clue. So the first stanza is clue number one. In that stanza f sets up the rest of the poem, telling you where to look, what you are looking for, and how you will know that you are correct.
    The first 3 lines of stanza two are the second clue. This clue includes WWWH, a canyon down, and too far to walk.

    Imagine that you are Forrest and you know exactly where you want to hide the chest. How do you design the poem?
    You are in the middle of the woods, that is, nowhere near anything. At that point you realize that WWWH is the nearest known landmark, so you format the poem to get to/from that landmark.
    So, if you can’t start your search from the correct WWWH, you might as well stay home and play Canasta.

      • JDA,

        If I may. I also think that it is 1 line = 1 clue with one exception as i said earlier. There is only one instance where 2 lines = 1 clue together is all I see different.

        It is these 2 lines, what do you think?

        There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
        Just heavy loads and water high.

        • Note the semi-colon in front of the no paddle line. Does not that imply thAt the no paddle line just further describes the lines before it. Think so.

          • Musstag,

            Absolutely, it is possible its the 3 lines=1 clue rather than 2 lines = 1 clue. I thought it also being as it is one sentence of 3 lines . I reasoned it as from perspectives. 1 being of if I was on a little boat going downs steam and I come to the drop off of the water fall ( end is nigh). But I choose to view it as no boat was used and I would be looking at the water fall from the bottom view instead. “The end is ever drawing nigh”, I chose to think it as a hint rather than a clue of a second view at same spot. You could be correct in your thinking also.

            I

          • Yes but a pause also. I description..pause…and another decsription at same spot. Like, a look to the left and a look to the right at same spot. One sentence and 3 descriptions. 1 line describes to left, then the 2 following lines describe to the right. The pause(;) is the head turn. LOL

  23. I thought forest said it was not by a dam Dam! Why do some of you keep bring dams in to your solve. There is no dam in my solve but I did say it a few times trying to get the solve .The solve flows just like the poem you will know when you get there go with confidence !

    • Some people still think wwwh is a dam or a reservoir even though ff said it is not a dam. Reservoir and warm water? Possible but less likely a meaning of. The middle school asked FF what “warm” means to him and he replied, “comfortable” . So perhaps its possible it is not meaning temperature of water. Who knows for sure but it is good practice to be open.

      Scientists believe El Nino phenomena is caused by atmospheric conditions.

      I understand that that the warm waters (El Nino) that originates in the Pacific ocean are due to Volcanic activity in the Pacific Ocean. 80% of the worlds known volcanoes are in the Pacific Ocean. The Ring Of Fire no less!

      They would argue with me but I wouldn’t bother arguing with them. If I wanted to know about warm waters (EL Nino) in the Pacific Ocean I would ask a Shaman. If I wanted to wwwh I would listen to FF and ask a Shaman.

  24. I thought somewhere someone asked Forrest if the treasure could be found without the backstories. I thought Forrest said no. May have been a dream getting in the way with my sleep solving again. But that is more than map, poem and geography. Can anyone verify? g

      • Thank you, was going crazy looking for it. Yesterday I typed in Google instead of my password. An interesting angle to work, no?

    • Hello ace 340. I believe reading the poem, TTOTC, and having a good map, and/or GE is important. My thoughts to the link Iron Will provided, also brings to mind that in 500 years, if one didn’t know the background of the poem, beginning with Mr. Fenn, it would only be just a nice poem.

    • (Second try.) The poem, “TTOTC” book, a good map, and/or GE, are important. If one is just handed the poem without knowing backstories, which begins with Mr. Fenn, it only becomes a nice poem. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

      • PD,
        For what it worth. Read the poem without a thought of anything… do you even know what the poem is?
        So we need the basic information of why the poem was written in the first place… “so I wrote a poem containing 9 clues that if follow precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure.”
        If you really think about this…
        1. We have information written in a poem style.
        2. We need to find 9 clues within the poem.
        3. We need understand how we are to follow. example; instruction, direction…
        4 We need to understand what “my rainbow” means to the person who wrote the poem.
        5. Understand how the 9 clues work that will lead us to find the treasure.

        Without that single sentence [ intro to the poem, if you will ] the poem is nothing more than a poem.
        Now add in where the book tells the treasure is hidden… in the mountain north of SF… You got a treasure hunt!

        But a few things are lacking, but not necessarily needed imo.

        What is in the chest. [ that is a selling point to me, because very few would spend so much time and money if all that was to be found was a chest full of marbles ].

        Who wrote the poem and why. Hence the book as helpful.

        IMO… things like these are needed to be know only for the fact that it will make us think what tools will we need to solve it all.

        Who wouldn’t look at maps?
        Who wouldn’t look up meanings of words.. it’s a poem after all, right?.
        Who wouldn’t use an up to date mapping system for convenience… GE or any other future satellite tech.
        All common sense in my book.

        And let’s talk about the book. The poem is held within this book. Fenn could have just wrote a poem, added info of what it was about and that would be that… but he choice to add in to a book.
        While I don’t believe the book is “needed” it must be helpful, because the author of both [book and poem] stated so… in the book.

        These are my reasoning’s of needed information other than just the poem by itself… without it, we have no reason to know what the poem is telling us.
        And here is why imo, why the book is helpful… Stanza five would make no scene at all without it, Right? And without stanza’s five knowledge… would we know anything about stanza one? And without stanza one would anything else in the poem make sense?

        Years back a searcher named Sid N Charlie ask the basic same question… it lead to some very interesting thoughts…
        ~If your dying great grandfather hands you a poem and tells you only, if solve there will be a chest [ close enough for horseshoe ] and nothing more… can you find the chest?

        IMO………….

          • Virginia,
            9 clues are not part of the poem either… If you think about.

            The only way we know of 9 clues is actually outside the poem.

          • Seeker,
            You’re really trying to strain brains tonight with that short statement no less.
            Call them 9 things in the poem what you like.

          • Seeker

            I do not understand your words. Are you saying that “Knowledge” of the nine clues comes from outside of the poem, but that the nine clues themselves ARE in the poem. I hope that that is what you mean. JDA

          • I believe Virginia Diane may have asked Dal if the sentence, ‘So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure:’ is the beginning of the poem. Hence, Dal saying it was not.

            Seeker, I believe I understand what you’re saying, but, the nine clues are part of the poem, is it not?

          • PDenver — ahh, that makes sense. Virginia was probably just looking for some clarification on where the poem actually starts, and Dal could certainly opine on that. Nevertheless, I think the sentence that immediately precedes the poem contains a hint (other than the helpful information that there are 9 clues and the poem must be followed “precisely”).

          • JDA,

            Yep.
            If all you have is the poem, do you know how many clues are present?

            Without any additional information we would never know if there are clues or how many or what the poem is related to.

            Jake,
            If ya read the comment above, my comment makes perfect sense. Virginia’s question to Dal… Rainbow or at least the word is not part of the poem… and … neither are the words “contains 9 clues”
            Sometimes we forget what we know of, to what they question actually asked. And yes, my comment was to meant to make folks think.

          • You’re such a sneaky devil Seeker.
            Maybe that’s who we are dealing with here.
            I think TimZ will get it after his session with the other side.

          • PD,
            How did you come to the conclusion 9 clues are part of the poem?
            Is there anything in the poem that shows, states, informs, or the words 9 clues or 9 anything mentioned.

            Without that intro to the poem.. we honestly don’t know about any clues. This is why the Q&A’s were faulted. they left out what was known… Little Indy only had the poem and a map of the US Rockies… the other Q&A only had the poem and no nothing else.
            Could you have guess there are 9 clues as we have been told of with only the poem?…
            I mean, 9 is very specific, even if fenn counted when he finished the poem. He could have easily said there are clues in the poem, right?

          • PD ~”Seeker, please reread my comment at 8:51 a.m..”

            I guess it was your choice of words ” back story “… I don’t consider the intro sentence to the poem as back story, and more as needed important info to understand the poem.

            But it seems we both agree that, without some prior information the poem is just a poem, and more or less impossible to understand without ‘prior’ information… no matter what we think that might be.

          • My original comment was towards ace 340, but it wouldn’t go through the first time, hence my second try. “Backstory” was mentioned by them, which I responded to. I concur, a person needs more than the poem, beginning with knowledge of Mr. Fenn.

          • I agree pdenver,
            I will go further & state if you know nothing about the man, you don’t have a chance in solving the poem.

          • Seeker, again, good points. Solve the poem and see what you get. Just like the ol’ “what’s a clue, what’s a hint”? The 9 is important, or like you said, “He could have easily said there are clues in the poem”. Like when he uses 265 coins in the chest, why not simply a lot or many, etc…? These comments outside the poem, I think, give one the confidence. How can we truly define what’s in f’s head? A clue to him may be something entirely different to someone else. Trying to solve the clues is trying to solve what we “think” is a clue. And, if botg are needed for some clues, how can one be confident when they leave their house? And, how can they truly solve the poem, let alone 9 specific clues?

            So many are trying to “solve for clues”, but they have no clue. We cannot define a clue, we could only solve the poem. Anything from f will help with that. Add in there that he misspells words, and has plausible deniability with everything, good luck with trying to solve a clue from home.

            Your points are valid for anyone trying to solve just for clues, take it all in and solve the poem first, then look back and put it all together. Then you may find your 9 clues. Just don’t forget the “key”. But that is outside the poem, right? Lol, maybe not.

            I reserve the right to be totally wrong and confused. But again, good thoughts to think about.

        • Hi Virginia — since it’s definitely not part of the poem, I assume what you meant is that you asked Dal whether “…the end of my rainbow” is a clue or a hint having something to do with the treasure. But even in that case, Dal would never have said it wasn’t a hint. The only one that 100% knows the answer to that question is Forrest. I happen to agree with Seeker that the statement is quite relevant and needs to be understood.

          • Hi Virginia Diane: was there a particular reason you were wondering if that sentence was part of the poem? It’s not a sentence in verse, so you must have had another thought as to why it might be part of Forrest’s poem.

          • hey zap,go to the old santa fe trading co,and click on resourse page,you will see the poem and whats written above it.This poem written by forrest fenn contains nine clues that if followed precisely will lead to the end of his rainbow and the treasure.this is why i asked dal if it was part of the poem and he said no.we all know it contains nine clues,i don’t know why someone would write lead to the end of his rainbow and the treasure.remember forrest said he forgot to name the poem to the school children.

          • Hi VA Diane, I’ll assume the Santa Fe Trading Co. website has the same words as in TTOTC. My advice is not to get too side-tracked by the rainbow comment. I think its relevance and cryptic meaning will only become clear to the one who correctly solves the poem. And yes … I believe it’s a hint.

        • One question I would like to ask Forrest is that if a blind person, when the poem is read to him, can she solve it.
          There were discussions about the importance of the punctuation and stuff like that.

          When we read the poem, we notice those things, but when we read it to someone else we do not read the commas, colons, ….

          I wonder.

          • Hello UA. I’m curious. Have you tried reading the poem without punctuations? Do you believe you can figure out where the treasure chest lies with just the poem?

          • UA,
            I’ve seen that blind Q thrown around here in the past with no answer from F.
            I have wondered about that & a Q about a colorblind person.

            When I see & hear F read the poem, I don’t hear or recognize any puncs.

          • Seeker,
            If “Brown” in the poem is a color, that would be a problem for the physically blind & those on the side as well.

          • UA—

            I asked that question when I first hit the blog about 6 months ago. Could a blind person solve the poem by hearing it—-or would it be necessary for them to use Braille to read it and solve it?

            The question was never answered—but I’m prone to believe using Braille might be necessary, 🙂

          • Jake.. you crack me up ~”Seeker,
            If “Brown” in the poem is a color, that would be a problem for the physically blind & those on the side as well.”

            Why would it be capitalized if it was a color?
            Your tunnel vision may be the problem…

          • Seeker,
            I hope you are not assuming that “Brown” in the poem is not a color.
            Either way, it doesn’t matter to me weather it’s a color or not. There are other things you have to figure out in the poem with your eyes on the ground or surroundings at some point, so the blind leading the blind…

          • I have only been aware and attempt at this poem solve for about 5 months. I am one of those that interprets Brown in the poem as not being a color nor as brown trout fish. Only capital in the poem that is not at beginning of a sentence and its is referenced prior as being home of a sir name. To me it is a person or family;definitely a sir name in my understanding. Not a fish ,not a color . Rather hoodwinked unintended but bought non the less-a seven year ache.

          • Just remember Alsetenash,
            When you only hear the poem, you don’t hear the caps or puncx.

            That’s how I like to remember it. Not just as a textual symbol piece but a linguistic masterpiece that flows from one river to another.

            Hear me all and listen good.
            Read me all and dissect my caps and puncx.

            I like the sound of that.

          • Jake,

            IMO .

            The poem is written, not audio. The only audio is in the mind if one hears the words in their head when reading it. If Brown was a potential color in meaning, it would only be capitalized at a start of a sentence and the words following could be analyzed to support that. But being as it is not ambiguous to that potential and is capitalized as it is in the line it is absolute to a name or sir name . Even brown trout in not proper in brown being capitalized unless it is the first word in a sentence because it is a color reference of that species only also.

            It is ” home of Brown” . Simple really.

            “Hear me all and listen good” . Is figurative in metaphorically speaking and writing. IMO. What is he “saying” here? It is not auditory in practice .It is figure OF speech-nothing to do with sound for an ear but what does that sentence “sound like ” to you. It is “like” asking a person an opinion of what someone else has said and they are asking you what would it mean to you. To me this line is a precursor denoting importance to what follows next as a strong clue.

          • I think the 1st inklings were from his mind & then the text came next.
            I believe you hear it before you write it.

          • Alsetenash: “It is ” home of Brown” . Simple really.”
            Nothing simple about HOB.
            Maybe he would be the only one to capitalize whatever HOB is because of the importance of it but for others it may be trivial & doesn’t deserve capitalization in there mind.

            HOB may have only been known in small circles with F back in the day & most if not are all dead.

            I only see the cap Brown with my eyes but not with my ears.
            I just find it hard to believe he would stick to the rules others made except for close family & laws.

          • Jake,

            It is simple. Allot of people have made HOB complex. Once you know what HOB is then you solve the poem. If you don’t have the HOB first, as it is KEY, then everything else is just a guess to fit a solve. You start with a guess you continue with a guesses and a solve becomes a path in insolvency. Once HOB is absolutely known then everything else becomes more easy to be deciphered.

            Convince your self what HOB is, isn’t or could be; I know therefore I am convinced.

            HOB is found in my solve it is absolute and not given credence by supposition. In time I know I will be proven correct in confidence!

            I am 80% confident now of my complete solve. The remaining 20% is BOTG required by seeing.

            IMO of course!

            Happy fishing , rock searching or color blinding!

          • HOB could be anything or multiple things in the right place.
            I would rather skip this clue & move on to find out where it is instead of what it is..

            80% is not a bad place to be considering you will need BOTG at some point, probably near the end.

            When will you be sure?
            Or should I’ve asked when are you going to put BOTG?

          • Jake,

            Ya, HOB was a tricky one and never ending though and the search for the meaning and locations of the meaning. Got bored of it too. I have been on of this poem solve thing for 6 months. Get bored come back get bored come back, Then suddenly 3 days ago I found HOB without a doubt. Now I could solve the rest and it was easy. All made sense and that is it. I did my armchair work and I consider it closed. I am as sure as I will ever be. Just telling the truth and not being a gamer player here. HOB was a sore spot for me. I am satisfied, FF really has given enough information to figure it out and it was through his words I discovered it . I can’t really do BOTG anytime soon or foreseeable future. I just am happy I can conclude this and move on. Phew it was a challenge. My spot all changed and came together 3 days ago. I’ll just wait to see I someone finds it and see how correct I am. I am done with it now though.

            Been a slice.

          • Sparrow — speaking only for myself, I think a blind person may have a harder time solving the clues because I believe many of them are visually secreted within the structure of the poem. However, being sighted, I don’t know what a blind person experiences when they read Braille. For those that have never “seen” letters, what does their mind’s eye envision when reading Braille dots?

          • Jake;

            I have stated my view several times, but for those that are new; Punctuation IS important as far as I am concerned. Using the punctuation, you arrive at one sentence = one clue. Ignoring the correct punctuation , to me, is a mistake.

            Just listening to Forrest read the poem will cause you to overlook one important clue – In My Estimation.

            TARry Scant – Blackish colored flat stone, like a grave marker.

            Tarry scant can mean don’t linger. I think that the first interpretation is the correct one….(Actually, I use both) but what do I know? Probably nada – JDA

          • JDA,

            I am fairly new and “tarry scant” means to me of a tar substance put on a pruned/cut tree or part of the tree that is cut to slow or prevent the rot or spread of the diseased tree after a limb cut. Or such as tar that is put on old power poles that are wood, to slow or prevent the rot or decay from exposure to the elements. Or it could just mean don’t linger long.

            IMO

            Cheers!

          • I have been in that “tar” camp before & won’t use it again unless you make a bet to be tared & feathered if you don’t find the treasure.

            But = Wait
            Tarry = Time
            Scant = Few
            Don’t wait around while you start to shiver.
            Look quickly down = Water
            Your effort will be worth the cold. = Temperature
            It’s still wet
            IMO

          • Al;

            As you mention TARry can mean Blackish in color like TAR.

            Scant can mean a stone that is flat, usually on two sides, like a flagstone or a grave marker. – So TARry scant COULD refer to a blackish colored stone, much like a grave marker.

            JDA

          • That is a conundrum. I think when it’s read to someone else, (book on tape. Example). There are Inflections?

          • Jake,
            UA’s question wasn’t about retrieving the chest but reading the poem.

            I think some want to believe this challenge was meant for everyone… while it gives us all the same information and the same opportunity to solve it… can everyone actually get to the location?

            “If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.”

            Why don’t people listen…

          • IMHO, Forrest gives us a hint that can expand the rules used by the capital B used in Brown. The dishwashing job, and calling the boss Frosty a Ruler. Nick names can be capped. Ruler and Brown can be a Nick name, but brown trout isn’t .

          • Alsetenash ~ “Or it could just mean don’t linger long.”

            Could you, or anyone else show me where it say “don’t” shouldn’t, not the best idea to or anything like… get the heck out of there?

            Others have stated they think the same. However,
            But; used to introduce something, used to indicate the impossibility, no more than, an argument against something…
            So my reBUTtal is, If you want your quest to cease, ya better do as he tells you to do… linger for a small amount of time and gaze at, steadily look at, and observe
            astonishingly…. Then… just take the chest and go…

            So I’ll ask the same old questions I have asked in the past… what is it we need to “Plan” for? and what is it we need to “Observe”?

            “The person that finds it, is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.” 

            “Craig, there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, unless it’s the desire to keep it simple.f”

            If you think about it Tarry say linger, hang around… there is no “don’t” to its meaning.

          • Seeker,

            I am more inclined to think as I had said that it is tarry scant meaning tar substance on trees or wooden pole to prevent rot and or spread of disease of diseased trees post pruning. Wooden utility poles more at an old mining area more likely.

            As for the:

            “Could you, or anyone else show me where it say “don’t” shouldn’t, not the best idea to or anything like… get the heck out of there?”

            “look QUICKLY down your quest to cease”
            “BUT TARRY SCANT with marvel gaze”
            “JUST take the chest go GO in peace”

            The Words in CAPS are action words:

            This could be also as an interpretation meaning hurriedly because its right there! Take it ! You found it, your quest is over- alas!
            It is not a Don’t or a Shouldn’t as in a warning in any way. There is allot of ACTION WORDS in those lines, not warnings. It is meaning; linger not and quickly look you’ll finish the quest. So, my meaning for “Don’t” not as in a warning but as an advisement of ..its right there!…it’s right there! look quick..it’s right there! Positive advisement not a fearful “Watch out” warning.

            Those are my 3 only possible meanings to that stanza I come up with.

            Understand, Seeker?

          • I missed the word “and’ before ‘Go” in peace.

            Also CEASE is an action word I missed.

            Poor edit

          • Mustang,
            Brown or hoB is meant as a clue, right? So, could it be the reference of the clue must be capitalized yet doesn’t have brown in it at all?

            I think sometime we forget that we’re also trying to understand home as well. Some like to say house… I have no idea why, yet they do.
            Home can mean an area or habitation or a country etc.
            Could “from there it’s no place for the meek” indicated home of the brave or United States ? [capitalized]

            WhatIF hoB indicated, that “from there” [hoB], no place for the meek reference’s needs capitalizing as well?
            Especially if hoB refers to two countries… “the end”: meaning, border or boundary?

            Just don’t tell Zap… apparently understanding meanings and word usages is not important…lol. Yes Zap, that was a little dig..lol.

          • Doesn’t have brown in it, twist my brain, lost me. I agree, why do so many use house?
            From there….. could mean
            , really away from here, over there, but we don’t have to go there.

          • Seeker;

            I think that there IS a Don’t to be found.

            One definition of BUT = Notwithstanding and/or CAUTION. Therefore: If “Tarry scant with marvel gaze” can mean Look with awe at the Blackish colored flat stone, if you add the “BUT” you get, Be cautious, DON’T look in awe at the blackish colored flat stone. At least I see the possibility of it being interpreted that way. JDA

          • Hi Seeker,

            “Just don’t tell Zap… apparently understanding meanings and word usages is not important…lol. Yes Zap, that was a little dig..lol.”

            I’m happy to take the ribbing, but I still stand by my statement. If people believe it will be fruitful to search dictionaries to decipher the poem, who am I to deter them?

          • Zap,
            You like the word dictionary… I like Multiple meanings and usages of words.
            “Well Andrew, I’m not sure “admire” is the right word but if we twist it a little maybe we can make it work. The word means approval or high regard. So it works. I sure feel that way or I would not have hidden it there. I like the way you think Andrew. f ”

            “The poem in my book is something that I changed over and over again. When you read the poem it looks like just simple words there. But I guarantee you that I worked on that. I felt like an architect drawing that poem.”

            Approx 11 min. ” …I looked up words and definition of words and changed them, went back and rebooted, it turned out exactly like I wanted”
            http://santafe.com/podcasts/forrest-fenn-on-treasure-hunting-in-the-

            You don’t have to believe anything I say… I’m just listening to what fenn has stated. He chose the avenue of a poem to present the clues, and a poem give full freedom of word usages…

            “Now I will test you Wordsmith. Write down the full definition of the word “several.” Then Google it and learn that many of us don’t fully understand some of the words we use every day.f “

          • Who ever wondered if a blind person can solve it i say no i think the ole coot would say no also people who are blind cant use there imagintion like we can

          • Hi Seeker,

            “I like Multiple meanings and usages of words.”

            That much is clear. And I’m sure you think it’s a crucial part of solving the poem. I just disagree. You don’t need to trot out the Forrest quotes over and over for me — I know every one of them by heart. You think they’re a message that we need to decipher a clever hidden meaning or association with some of the words in the poem. I don’t. If you’re right, I’ll never find the chest, but that’s a risk I’m happy to take. I have very different ideas about how Forrest’s clues work.

            “You don’t have to believe anything I say… I’m just listening to what fenn has stated.”

            Yes, you are listening to what he has stated, BUT… you are also interpreting those words to mean something that he did not in fact say. You are reading between the lines that because Forrest is very interested in word origins and meanings and spent a lot of time writing and rewriting the poem over the years that this must mean we will have to do the same to unravel what he has created. As I said before, you shouldn’t assume that the tools Forrest needed to construct his challenge are the same as the ones that would-be solvers will need.

          • OK Zap,
            I have one last question… why write a poem to present the clues?

            Fenn could have just stowed away clues and hint thought the book, even answers… he chose a poem for a reason. In your mind, why did he do this?
            I think it’s a very important question we all should ask ourselves.

          • Diggin;

            I find you comment regarding whether a blind person can not “Imagine” the way we do offensive and probably untrue.

            Even if a person were born blind, ALL they can do is IMAGINE what the world looks like. I would guess that there ability to imagine the world around them far exceeds yours.

            Stereotyping people that you probably have no experiences with is the height of bigotry as far as I am concerned.

            Just my unprejudiced opinion JDA

          • oh jeez guys, it’s ‘happy reading across America day’ today – not ‘who can be the most politically correct day’ 🙁

            I agree entirely with DG, as imagination can only (mostly) be bred from what we have already experienced, and without the gift of sight a person has a natural disadvantage to begin with.

            thanks D.gypsy, for speaking your mind logically and honestly

          • Seeker,

            “I have one last question… why write a poem to present the clues? Fenn could have just stowed away clues and hint thought the book, even answers… he chose a poem for a reason. In your mind, why did he do this?”

            A poem has certain advantages for presenting information. You are given more stylistic leeway with your sentence structure: you can write things like “with my treasures bold” and “look quickly down” and “tarry scan with marvel gaze” and get away with it. A poem also has structure that is missing from ordinary prose: lines, stanzas, rhyming rules, cadence. The physical layout of the poem provides another method for sharing (or hiding!) information. Remember: Forrest felt like an architect. A poem, visually, is much more like a house than is ordinary prose. Finally, I think Forrest just happens to enjoy poetry — both reading it and writing it.

            When you ask what Forrest can do with a poem that he can’t do with ordinary writing, you’ve actually asked a very insightful question. It is a big step toward figuring out how to solve the clues.

          • Hi Seeker, Zap, JDA, et al. – while a dictionary is useful if you don’t know the meaning of words, perhaps, ultimately, it is a thesaurus that is key. 🙂

            Fenn says he worked on the poem for a long time too, “changing and rearranging. Each word is crafted in its place. No part of it was not looked at from every angle.”
            (2/15/15)
            http://www.earthmagazine.org/article/trail-treasure-rocky-mountains

            Perhaps f would have had an easier time writing if he had ‘free versed’ his poem. I guess he kinda did at one point:

            Q. Is there is specific reason that halt and walk are the only words that do not follow the rhyme scheme?
            A. Yes, I was limited by my ability.
            (2/8/17)
            http://dalneitzel.com/2017/02/08/forrest-gets-mail-13/

          • Zaphod,
            I know that this is a long string of comments, but I just wanted to respond to your most recent comment regarding why Forrest chose to include all of the clues in a poem rather than sprinkled throughout a larger work of writings like TOTC. I think the reasoning behind this is simply economic good will on Forrest’s part. He wants the Chase to be available to all and wants that poem to be out there free for all to read and go after. Burying the essential clues in a larger book lays out a barrier (even if a small one) of accessibility of the Chase to the general public. The poem can simply be passed along between two friends in conversation, giving each person an equal opportunity to discover the treasure. Just my opinion, but it makes sense to me. 🙂

  25. F said if he told what/where “Brown” was, we’d walk right to the treasure. The capitalization of “Brown”, IMO, is to show importance to the word. It could actually be several other things besides a man named “Brown”, or a structure owned by “Brown”. Remember, this is “Fenn” thinking, so it doesn’t always seem so obvious. The poem leads to a treasure, so I don’t think F is straightforward, meaning an actual home. I feel it describes an area to a archaeological reference listed as “Brown”. I went thru several different reference materials before I discovered this definition.
    Good hunting!
    ¥Peace ¥

    • Donna,
      Do you mean Capability Brown?
      I saw that years back… just don’t know what to do with it. If this is your idea, best of luck.

      • Seeker,

        Question; How long have you been working on this poem and solve? How many BOTG searches have you done? Just curious.

          • Seeker,

            Same here, just not the same length of time. I have been on and off on this for about 6 months and no BOTG.

            Ya , “the what took me so long” thing. Didn’t ff say that also in general speak of when someone solves and finds it will they think that. I thought I read that somewhere.

            In the realm of everyone at some point thinks this, ” I solved it, I know I am right, I am absolute, I know this means or is this or that, I know it is here”
            ect..ect,. I am no different in that realm of thought many times over.
            Then I always have proven my solves of past as really not good or right at all. Either they were too forcefully put into conclusion, wishful thinking or too complex to be even close to any real likelihood by deduction of being correct.

            Then it all suddenly became simple and easy and fit like a glove. As soon as I was able to find “home of brown”. I know ff said you cannot solve the problem by starting in the middle of the poem, though Brown is not exactly the middle.

            From finding the easy, logical , in my face easy to find Brown, the rest was
            as easy as wwwh and all the others. I did my debunking of my own solve like I did with my others and it is so perfectly fit. easy a solve of the
            poem. All history and research supportive if it. It is very simple to apply the “the what took me so long thing” to it because it is that simple!

            I just would have to do a BOTG a few times, no doubt ,to find it but I know I am in the right area very easily . Home of Brown is my ” Proof” that is -you figure that clue out and it shows and helps you see all the other clues in the poem and clues on he ground in as much as from home I can see.

            For me I am done figuring out the poem,clues and what they mean .Other than the 2 key ones that require BOTG. We have their description so it should be easy to see them when there .

            I had other “keywords” for the poem even different ones recently. But Brown is the word that is key because if Brown is figured out ,the poem is real easy.

            I am done from here now. No BOTG and likely never will. Too expensive and the time for me to go there from here in Canada.

            Good luck too you all and have fun,safe season of search. I hope someone proves myself right one day.

            This blog has been awesome. Thanks Dal.

            Shane.

      • No, Seeker, I do not. The answers are not always where they seem to be. F has his own rules, and capitalizing a word also shows importance. Those searchers that missed the first two clues, and walked passed “Brown” and the treasure were thinking too literal.
        I won’t spell it out for you, that’s your job. Imo, it’s a very logical affiliation, and suits the poem’s purpose.
        And, “yes” this is my idea, luck isn’t needed, if you do the work yourself!
        Sorry, no free answers today.
        I do respect your opinions, though. You need to relax those brain cells and see more thru F’s child like observations!
        If you are “fishing” for other’s ideas, don’t be so quick to judge their answers, the littlest morsel may be the tastiest!

        • Donna,
          I don’t fish for answers… I do listen for ideas, and thought provoking comments {even if I disagree with them ].
          Example you said; “Those searchers that missed the first two clues, and walked passed “Brown” and the treasure were thinking too literal.”

          There is no way to know that hoB would be the third clue in your scenario… So, it makes me think… why do readers have this uncontrollable need to make each line a single clue?
          Why couldn’t the first three lines in stanza 2 contain information resulting in a reference ,and the next line / sentence ‘put in below hoB’ be another reference [ or counting clues.. 1 and 2 ]
          Attempting to force a line to be a single reference [ answer to a clue[s] ] seems to make the poem to what we hope it might be, rather than attempting to study what it was intended to be.

          You also stated ~ ” You need to relax those brain cells and see more thru F’s child like observations!”
          You might be correct… then again, maybe the poem is not about fenn or his child like observation at all… could the clues refer to lasting geographical and geological site/formations/location only? See, I don’t need to agree with anyone. I just read the post to keep those brain-cells active. In my case, my last usable brain-cell.

          • Hello SL. Thank you for the link. I don’t believe I’ve seen it before. Certainly seems to go with Seeker’s comment about a Savoir in the tree (paraphrasing).

          • (Second try.) Thank you for the link, SL. Also seems to work with Seeker’s previous comment about a Savior in the tree (paraphrasing).

          • pdenver,

            It does – “The Blood of Christ.”

            Thank you, my friend.

            Were you able to pick up the mountain mention?

          • SL, do you mean the Sangre de Cristo mountains? I may need to go back and listen to it again.

          • Lol, I agree, Seeker, on the brain cells!
            Imo, there are 4 clues in stanza 2. I don’t count every line as a clue in the other scenarios.
            Wwh = 1
            Canyon down = 2
            NFBTFTW = 3 (about 10 mls.)
            Below HOB = 4
            Going by what f said, “Sounds like 3 or 4 to me!” (In TFTW book interview)
            Stanza 3 = 3
            Stanza 4 = 2
            You once posted your clues, we matched except for Stanza 2!
            ***Also, through Rocky Mts are ever changing, and may not fit the clues 1000 yrs from now. But for this era, I hope they stay asleep!
            One hint for you, my dear Seeker…what is one man’s trash, is another’s treasure!
            Good luck, my friend.
            DM

          • Donna M., when do you plan on heading out? You seem confident with your thoughts.

          • sounds like Sangre de Christo to me SL

            but given that it seems like a cheap nasty tabloid style media source (I totally agree with Donald on his ‘media’ observations) I wouldn’t lend too much weight on it being reliable mate

  26. JDA ~”Seeker;
    “I think that there IS a Don’t to be found…”

    What is more logical… We need to look quickly down, but get the dang chest and run like the dickens?
    Or
    fenn giving instruction to do something, to actually find a 10″ sq spot hidden so well, so difficult to find, fenn feels nobody will stumble upon it for 1000’s of years.
    I recall fenn saying… in jest more more than likely… when asked about tools needed, something like. bring a six-pack to celebrate.
    Doesn’t sound to me like ya need to be in a big hurry. Heck, we’re told we may need to make two trips from out vehicle to the hide.
    If I saw a shiny, smooth, flat, black stone, in the middle of no ware, I’d more than likely pick it up… even just to look it over. Many rock-hounds [ like yourself ] would probably do the same.

    For the life of me… I can’t imagine fenn’s final resting place, having the need for us to leave so quickly… or even want to.
    LOL, go through thousand of hours of research everyone talks about… spend thousand of $ to get there… some times hundreds of miles of traveling and multiple searches… just to run away as fast as ya can?
    Oh sure, we can pick and choose what definition we want to make it work for our brilliant solves… But…
    What seems more reasonable?

    • You make good points Seeker. Since you had said that you didn’t find a “Don’t” I was just saying that I had found a “don’t”.

      Actually, in my solve, I am saying do NOT spend a lot of time staring in awe at the TARry scant, for it is not hidden there…It
      is to be found elsewhere…so we agree.

      Once you DO find it, depart in haste. JDA

      • Why? Wht do we ‘need’ to “depart in haste”
        Safety issues???

        This never made any sense to me what we should be worry about… some suggest… being arrested by the authorities or having the trove seized or getting a load of buckshot in the butt because we’re on private property.
        This implies fenn is dictating to do something wrong or even illegal. Heck, while we’re at it, might as well take things from Indian reservations as well, right?

        I hope fenn’s grand kiddies know what they are getting into. Poor Tucker may end up in doggie lockup. Geezus, peta would have a field day.

        And I’m pretty sure that some savior character isn’t hiding out in a tree, in the middle of the wilderness, in the hopes someone comes along and find a chest full of gold.

        I don’t get it…

        Then again… maybe that is what we need to “plan” for… anyone got a phone # for a good bails bondman?

        • I think it’s because we’re at a potential grave with/without human remains it’s sacred ground and should be treated as such.

          • The ole coot would never put the treasure or better yet his dead body near other dead bodys he likes to be alone and its his special spot no other dead guys hhaha

          • Absolutely right, Diggin’. The only other dead bodies he’d be sharing his spot with are those of forest critters.

          • I dont think it is a grave site as such. It looks like a cemetery if you use your imagination in MHO.

          • I think it could involve an indian death ritual site. It ties in with his life long fascination with indian artifacts.

          • Joesph ~”I think it could involve an indian death ritual site. It ties in with his life long fascination with indian artifacts.”

            IMO only… you might be walking a line you don’t want to be on. These types of sites are taken very seriously. Think about all the court battle going on about remains that are 5000 – 10,000 plus years old ancient discoveries. Native Americans can claim these remains as their own for proper ceremonies… archeologist finds [remains] must be handed over.

            I’d treat lightly is these places… Just saying.

          • Totally agree Seeker, “Just take the chest”…….. could with no trickery mean “take JUST the chest”???

        • After them boys got in trouble in yellowstone forrest started telling me to obey the laws where ever i go so i dont think he wants ppl to break the laws

          • That’s good advice by the old scrub.
            Some laws can be broken or bent but others, you’re up that creek without a paddle.

    • Hi Seeker,

      you say…For the life of me… I can’t imagine fenn’s final resting place, having the need for us to leave so quickly… or even want to.

      While I agree with most of what you say…let`s keep in mind the fact that we are (most likely) searching in the wilderness and wildlife could be abundant therefore we may need to leave a little faster than we may want to depending on what is around.

      • Hey RickinFL,
        To be honest, I’m hard pressed even for that notion.
        What’s the difference in the hikers who travel for days { like along the CD trail } or mountain bike riders that make their own paths, or tent campers who like it far away from the norm, fisherman [ person to be politically correct ] on a far away fishing weekend…
        I’m more worried about walking down Second Ave. in down town Nashville when all the honky tonks close… talk about abundance of wildlife!

  27. JDA…as usual, I agree with your TSAMG.
    Tarry …Lolly gag
    Scant…very little
    Marvel gaze…gaze at in amazement.
    So, don’t sit there with the treasure in your lap, staring mezmerized, take it the chest, leave peacefully/calmly/don’t draw attention to youself, as quickly as you can.
    It’s a safety issue.

  28. “people who are blind cant use there imagintion like we can”–from post above.

    “We can’t? What, are you deaf or something? Haven’t you heard my song “superstition”?

    —-Stevie Wonder

  29. “The key to all mysteries is; So be it above, so be it below. In every beginning is an end, and in every end has it’s beginning. You have the past and the future, you also have the present in which we are right at this moment. Fenn’s Poem has a beginning and an end but to find the end you must find the beginning which after solving his poem is when you will learn the beginning is the end. Now back to the present, at this moment, you can find the key to Fenn’s poem, so be it above ( The past ) , so be it below ( The future ) . Now look at the present, at this moment, the middle of the poem, five middle sentences, count nine letters over and cycle the letters but the end of the middle ( present ) will be the beginning, “Just take the chest “, count nine letters over, T. The next will be, ” But tarry scant”, S.” Look quickly down”, K. “If you’ve been wise”, E. “Just heavy loads “, Y. T. S. Eliot is the key to understanding Fenn’s poem and the reasoning for it is the way we as a human look at death and time, we know to live we must die but to try to bring it to light so that we as a human can understand, we can not. We can look to the pastfor answers or to the future for answers but still at this point in time ( present ) we have no answer for what really happens when we die. Is the end our beginning? Or is it for those of us who has not made our mark on the earth for all to see just the end. Someone who will just be forgotten after death, this goes very deep, very deep. Fenn’s not putting just himself in the spotlight for ever lasting life, the spirit of the person who speaks throw the poem that has a past in there and the third is THE ONE who in the present day, when that day arrives reviles the solve. Inmortality, is this how to spell it? Is the end our beginning? Forrest Fenn’s poem is so heard to solve because today ( the present ) we as a human, are to busy to think about it.

    • Nice philosophical thinking Thomas, but a bit too deep for me regarding how to look at the poem, and find a “solve”. Just my opinion though, and you may be right, and I may well be wrong. JDA

      • Yes this may be too deep, but I wouldn’t know for sure unless a doctor looks me in the eye and says that I only have so many days to live.

    • I think that you touch upon a good point, Thomas. To me, the reward of the treasure does not equal wealth as much as time; time to spend more of one’s life in pure contentment and security, pursuing whatever one finds most interesting.

    • I’m thinking we have a bona fide existentialist in our midst. Welcome Thomas. You may have been hanging around Dal’s site for awhile, but as I am an occasional lurker, we’ve not crossed paths before now (that I can recall). Kudos to you for thinking outside the box and challenging the rest of us to look at things from a different perspective. Good luck in your search.

  30. Hi out there everybody! Just going over some of these post tonight and is real apparent some of you did not get the secret decoder ring with the book ttotc and tftw those really help.

  31. Hi out there everybody! Just going over some of these post tonight and is real apparent some of you did not get the secret decoder ring with the book ttotc and tftw those really help.

    • ok, admittedly i suffer from a mild dose of Stevie Wonderfulness too, from time to time (mostly always) ..so maybe you could enlighten me with your ‘big secrety thing’ Clint

      but do i have to watch that Tom Hanks movie beforehand?
      (wat’s-it-called again? ..the Dal Vinci Code?)
      🙂

  32. Dal,
    I was asking Donna m which state she was searching in and it seemed as though Alsetenash seem to know it’s Montana. I figured I had missed it somewhere, sorry for the confusion

    • Actually I don’t have a clue as to what state Donna is searching. I never even guessed. I don’t know where you read into where I think she is searching Montana.

      Just saying!

  33. Sorry Alsetenash,
    Because you said you and Donna M might be in the same area , I assumed( mistakenly) that you knew you were at least in the same state. My bad, I shouldn’t have assumed anything.
    My apologies,
    reklim

    • Reklim,

      No apology needed bud. It did sound like that is of what I said. I was just being humorous in what I said to her in reply. I only was speaking figuratively in that she had said she had 8 clues solved and so do I have same; so we may be at same area in that sense. But I don’t actually know where she is searching. That’s all.

      Sounded like I did know though haha. I am not searching in Montana. I was interested in Montana at first glance at the poem solve but not anymore, not for along time now. I don’t know if she ever has said where she is searching. It doesn’t matter to me though.

      No worries Reklim,

      Cheers!

      • Shane,
        Q. didn’t I read somewhere up this thread, how you were walking away?
        “Shane! Come back!” – tell me your folks weren’t at the showing of the movie, at a drive-in, backseat of car???
        Hey maybe a car like the bullet

        • Theycallme9clues,

          I typed ,I sent it, it is lost. So have to retype.

          Walking away from what?
          I meant earlier that I am done solving with the poem now. I can’t do BOTG anytime this year, it looks like , so I am kind of done now. It was fun and people here have been great. I will still respond if my email shows a reply to my comments ect. Just not going to be here much is what I meant.

          Maybe I do BOTG and come post some more. I don’t know .

          Yes, ” Please don’t go Shane” Heard that all through school since it was a book studied in grade school. I didn’t mind it from the girls though haha.
          The newer adaptation “Pale Rider” was a good movie-Clint Eastwood.

          • @Alsetenash/Shane/Tesla/Nash

            rule #8: Don’t post comments under more than one name. Changing your name on the blog causes confusion to other readers. Some folks change their name often and carry on conversations with their various “personalities”. If you are caught doing this you will be banished from this blog.

          • Goofy,

            @Alsetenash/Shane/Tesla/Nash

            rule #8: Don’t post comments under more than one name. Changing your name on the blog causes confusion to other readers. Some folks change their name often and carry on conversations with their various “personalities”. If you are caught doing this you will be banished from this blog.

            Excuse me! I have always been “Alsetenash” as screen name on here since I joined and never any other name. It is just my real name in real life is Shane. Never used my real name as a screen name nor the name Nash/Tesla/Shane. Someone thought my name was nash as in my screen name Alsetenash. Never have I changed my screen name nor used a different one. My “personality” is honest. Someone asked me if my name was Shane because of Alsetenash backwards is Shane/Tesla. I said honestly yes, my real name is Shane but nothing to do with Tesla and not nash. If there a problem with that, as I say here, then I will happily leave this blog. In fact I am absolutely incensed by your accusation .

            Farewell and good riddance to your ignorance.

          • No. that is not nor was me. I did in fact see my name already as when I was a lurker before I signed on and was from Canada like me. So I came up with “Alsetenash” because of that. I think I even said that once on here of that fact. I can see now why you think so.

            My apologies for anger.

          • Just come clean Nash.
            The Ouija mouse pad tells all & knows all here.
            If it could only find the treasure.

            Same IP…..

          • My brother stayed with me for a few months while in transition , use my stuff. used my name. Told me about this Fen treasure blog. I never saw him on blog he just showed me the stuff on it. I just called him and he said he used my Name to use as a name on a blog. He is an IT guy on the west coast now for frig sake! So I started looking at this blog and signed on as Alsetenash. So it is what it is. Still mad at this but whatever. I understand Goofy and the IP thought is justified,end of story. I think my brother is deaf in one ear.

          • Shane,

            Your thoughts and ideas are important here. No different than anyone else.

            Please stay and contribute as you have been doing. You are loved and welcomed here.

            Hang in there… The winter makes all of us a ‘bit intolerable’ … Let’s have fun!

            Your friend …. Fennatical

          • I second that idea. Some times it is just fun reading what Shane has to share. I was the one that asked about his handle being Shane Tesla in reversed and this seems like the perfect setting being as Shane has interesting and logican words.

          • Thanks Bob,

            My younger brother stayed with me for awhile used my computer and was on here. He used my name. He would ask me questions about this poem. Our real names are actually similar and he used mine here as a screen name . I worked away from home for weeks on end. He sort of sounds like me in that post Goofy showed!. He moved to west coast and does IT stuff there since. I phoned him and asked him about this..”oh ya ” he says grrr! I told him to sign in with his email address he used and apologize haha.

            Anyways, good luck in your search. Now I am the Mad scientist and should change my Screen name haha.

          • bummer, shane. you posted coherent ideas. But, if you’re really done, start a small group and direct each person in your posse to have a responsibility. A managable group of say three or four. Each person signs a document, and costs are split.

          • Bob

            When I was in town I would work on this with my brother and he was interested in it. I was home 1 week a month all year. I do investigative work in my career so he always would ask me and we would work on it. Bro and I are allot alike but different . Not the first time he’s pretended to be me in funny ways He stayed at my place before he found work in the West. It was good because I was hardly home. We are allot a like . No need for me to change my name so it is what it is and looks the way it looks. Good work on IT and IP by Goofy but Jake can eat his hat on this . I am embarrassed by it non the less.

            Good bye!

          • Not a big deal Alsetenash,
            So you may have committed a misdemeanor & got a warning from Goofy.
            Live & learn & move on.

            Compelling comment: “Only because this website popped in my email suddenly after many months-today.”
            Same Gravatar, same IP, same name…
            Same old story. My hat is safe for now.

            FF: Yes, I didn’t think that comment would fool many people.

  34. My thoughts aren’t worth much, but what Shane had oo give was grand! Contributor.
    And Alsetenash has contributed crazyy-good, interesting Tesla theorie and such. Contributor.

  35. Dale (aka Dal)

    I strongly suspect that there’s a few good fellows here, whose cellars have recently run dry of your ‘infamously highly secret-never to be mentioned in public-under any circumstances-no matter what-esp to those FIB guys-special vintage moonshine’ ..if i’m not mistaken

    (but you didn’t hear that from me though, capeesh?)

    signed – (highly discreet as always) hurious cobbit

  36. This is the best piece of information above:

    – Can you give me one quote that will inspire my readers that it is possible to find your treasure? Something to motivate them? Something to tease them.

    FF: Those who solve the first clue are more than half way to the treasure, metaphorically speaking.

    • DelaYah,
      I agree this is the best piece of info above.

      The 1st clue must have some similarities with other clues or maybe just the last clue.
      Either way, if you don’t have the 1st clue, you have nothing.
      IMO

      • Howdy Jake,

        Forrest has said, the people that had walked right past the chest probably didn’t get the first 2 clues.
        Metaphorically, if you get the first clue, you are actually in a dual meaning and 1/2 way there in more than 1 sense of those words together.

        Nice to make your acquaintance sir!

        • DelaYah, you said; “Forrest has said, the people that had walked right past the chest probably didn’t get the first 2 clues.”

          I must have missed that one… The ones recall [ many comment I have read/heard in audio ], indicate some, several, many searchers deciphered the first clues and went by the remaining clues and the chest.

          One quote “… I mean, people figured the first couple clues and unfortunately walked pass the treasure.”

          • Hello Zaphod,
            What I gather is that you would need to know the 1st clue before you can know the 2nd clue. But once you know the 1st clue, the second one sort of falls in place. From there, it gets a little harder, but not impossible, and that is where the hint actually leads, to the further clues and the end, IMO. 🙂

          • Hi DelaYah: you have the right idea–that the second clue cannot fully be solved without the first. But the first cannot be fully understood without the second. They work in conjunction with each other. But even once you have the first 2 clues tentatively solved, I would not say you would have 100% confidence. This is the problem that vexes those that solve the first 2 clues: they don’t 100% know it. And since the 3rd clue is hard, most don’t solve it and “go right past the chest”. Eventually they probably abandon their WWWH thinking it’s good, but not the right one. All IMO of course; your mileage may vary.

        • Nice to meet your acquaintance as well if you don’t find the treasure.
          I think it’s a matter of knowing the 1st clue is worth more than 50% of the other 9 clues combined

          Or the last clue (blaze) is 11.12% X 5 = 55.6%

          Just throwing #’s & ?’s around.

          • Too bad that the last clue is not the blaze Jake…at least not in my opinion. – Still have 4 to go after the blaze, as far as my solve goes. But who knows – at this point, only Forrest knows, and he is not talking. Come on Mother Nature – warm up! JDA

          • But why would he speak of the 1st clue & the blaze as if the blaze is the last clue?
            I think you nee to pay attention more on what he’s saying & please put your expensive ears in.
            You can also watch his stoic expression.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_fPF8Gc1I8

            Glad this video is still active for now anyway.

          • Well Jake, I guess we hear what we want to hear.. Yes, he talked about the blaze, but I did not hear him say anything about it being the last clue. He said something to the effect that you can not start at the middle of the poem and expect to find the blaze. He didn’t say…find the treasure.

            He says the blaze is “A” clue, not “The last clue”

            Good luck to ya’ though. JDA

          • I heard what I heard & saw what I saw.
            If you want to ignore it it, then that’s fine with me & others.

            So sad you couldn’t answer the question as usual.

          • Jake;

            I did answer the question. You asked.”But why would he speak of the 1st clue & the blaze as if the blaze is the last clue? And I answered, ” but I did not hear him say anything about it being the last clue. ”

            Not sure how I could be more plain. JDA

          • Jake and JDA – It’s apparent that you two do not agree. To me that suggests that neither of you have a clue about clues. Why don’t you two work together and see if you can come up with a solution that will work instead of badgering each other? It couldn’t be any worse than the approaches you each take now.

          • Hma,
            It’s a tough sell when most don’t agree & it takes away our individuality when we try to make sense of the poem.
            I like it it just the way it is where there are so many different ways to interpret as there are minds.

            You said: “It couldn’t be any worse than the approaches you each take now.”
            Really?
            I don’t see any opinion there….

            Do you have a crystal ball where you can see the future?
            How do you know it couldn’t be any worse?

          • HMA;

            Said by the man with a Treasure Chest in his hands – OH, that is a bologna sandwich – sorry. JDA

          • JDA –

            “Said by the man with a Treasure Chest in his hands – OH, that is a bologna sandwich – sorry.”

            That’s okay JDA, I won’t take it personal. I simply made a suggestion but I can see it’s not something you want to consider. I’ve tried to offer up “help” over and over but it is met with resistance because you won’t consider any possibility other than the one track you are on. To me it would seem like you would want to consider multiple tracks instead of boxing yourself in with one solution that very well might not work.

            To think that one takes more than 2 trips to the “spot” where the treasure chest is hidden and can’t find it, suggests that one is not on the right track. That’s just my opinion though. You might have to take 12 or 1,000 trips to the area to find the chest. Personally I don’t think so but then again I could be wrong.

          • HMA;

            Without being rude, how many times do I have to say it “I do not need your help, nor do I want your help!” If somehow it helps to inflate your ego to constantly offer your help – go for it…I guess. Codependency is offering help to someone who has not asked for that help. Offering that help to someone who has not asked for it, not only doesn’t help the person to whom it is offered, it is detrimental to the person that insists on offering it.

            You might consider taking a look at that. Just my opinion.

            What are you going to do if I find the treasure HMA? It will so shatter you, I am not sure you will survive it, and that is sad. JDA

          • Jake –

            “Do you have a crystal ball where you can see the future?
            How do you know it couldn’t be any worse?”

            I don’t have a crystal ball Jake. You don’t need one if you have done your work on the poem. Again, because of the poem I can without a doubt say that most searchers are not on the right track or even in the correct state.

    • Hi DelaYah: what’s entertaining about this response from Forrest, and some others that have preceded it over the years, is that he is actually providing a hint to the first clue in his answer. I have to add the IMO disclaimer of course, but most who have solved the first clue should be able to recognize Forrest’s hint here.

  37. For some reason some of you think the middle of the poem is where it says “begin”.

    The middle of the poem is between:
    Just heavy loads and water high.
    – middle is here –
    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,

    What am I missing?
    Or what are you missing?

  38. Charlie: (sits down at table) “Geez Marge! That Roast looks delicious!”

    >>>>phone rings<<<<

    Charlie: "Oh, Hi Hank. can I call you back? I'm in the middle of dinner right now".

    • We are not talking about dinner Sparrow & a sparrow would only be an appetizer.

      1. at an equal distance from the extremities of something; central.
      1. the point or position at an equal distance from the sides, edges, or ends of something.

      The poem has a defined structure while eating does not.
      You could eat the bread first.

      • So Jake, why do you think that the last clue would be at the “center” (well almost exact center) of the poem?

        Doesn’t seem logical to me. Just askin’ JDA

        • JDA, don’t understand why you say the last clue being possibly in the middle of the poem is not logical…this is a epic treasure hunt and there should be all kinds of surprising/unknown outcomes until the tc is found. Surprising outcomes would be logical.

          Using the f quote that discounting any word in the poem is risky hardly makes your statement true.

          • fundamental;

            Well, good luck with your logic. It just does not seem logical in my mind. To me, EVERY word is important, and I consider it risky to ignore ANY of them, so if the last clue is in the middle of the poem, that is a LOT of unused words, as far as I am concerned. JDA

          • JDA,

            I bet if you described your whole theory/solution that you have plenty of “the”s that really aren’t that important for your solution. I know you believe one of them is important.

            But your idea that the clues ending half way in the middle of the poem not being logical is pretty illogical. All it takes is to think of one logical example to dispel…maybe f masked the super importance of a seemingly vague first stanza by trying to make the latter couple of stanzas seem more important than they are.

            More logic, never seen f mention any of the last 2 stanzas being a clue although he has mentioned lines earlier in the poem as clues.

          • Fundamental;
            I am not going to argue logic to you. You see the poem the way that you see it – Good for you. Once the TC is found, and that might happen sooner than most people think – We will then both know which one of us us thinking more logically.

            Your solve obviously ends with “Look quickly down, your quest to cease.” That is fine. many people think this way. IMO, you are overlooking a VAST amount of important information…But what do I know? I am just a dottering old fool. JDA

          • P.S.
            If I didn’t want to use the last 2 or more stanza’s, I am sure that I could come up with several “Logical” reasons not to use them. This is called conformation bias.
            JDA

          • JDA, no, it’s just not right to not call it logical. You’re essentially saying that it’s not logical that f could have masked something in the poem which isn’t logical.

            You can say, like I am, that’s it’s a possibility that he masked something in the poem or the first stanza in the poem but not likely and he might have used another method to hide the location of the tc. But you can’t say it’s not logical as nothing you have shown fits the description of not being logical. Being more logical than something else has no place in our discussion as that’s not what you brought up in the first place or what I responded to. So, I’m not sure why you are bringing that up…good luck!

        • I thought I already mentioned that he mentions the 1st clue & the blaze in the same statement.
          Why would he mention the 1st clue & the blaze together?

          I can’t recall him ever mentioning anything past the blaze in a statement unless he was reciting the poem which he was not in this case & I don’t recall him mentioning the 1st clue with any other word or line in the poem.

          There they are, bundled together.

      • Not to be funny, but what if the poem STARTS in the middle and “heavy loads and water high” is the actual end? Then the actual beginning of the poem STARTS with “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze” and ENDS at the actual middle with “I give you title to the gold”?

        Kind of like how the Stars saga STARTS with episode 4 (the middle of the story– but we don’t realize it’s the middle until later) and then ENDS with episodes 1 thru 3.

        If the poem followed that pattern then where is the middle?

        • Sparrow

          just wanted to relay R2D2’s vitally important message to you concerning the exact location of the treasure

          “blip bleep blip zeeep thurrr bip beep blip bleep”

          [and no, it’s not a predictive quote from Jake when he fails to find the chest this spring]
          🙂

    • lol, Sparrow! I’m completely lost on your original post that reads like the scrap of a sitcom script. Care to explain to someone too dull to get the reference? 🙂

      Regarding the discussion about where clues are located in the poem, I think that it is legitimate for anyone to reason that there are important clues hidden in all 6 stanzas. I think that it is also equally legitimate to believe that some stanzas do not contain any clues.

      My reasoning behind the latter statement is that I believe that Forrest wants the poem to stand on its own, not only as directions to the treasure, but as a succinct summary of the Chase itself. Keep in mind that Forrest has freely distributed the poem by itself to the general public and that he has stated (paraphrasing) that the treasure can be found by only using the poem along with maps/GoogleEarth. One does not necessarily need to listen to his past interviews, read his books, or discuss on this blog to find the treasure. So if the poem is standalone, I believe Forrest wants it to contain at least a brief description saying that there is a treasure, that he hid it while he was alone, that he did at what he believes to be close to the end of his life, and that it’s there to be taken by whoever finds it. That information is all contained within the poem itself.

      I hope I’m making sense here. Think of it this way: If the poem began with cryptic directions like (and I’m just making something up randomly): “Start at the mystery lake, go up the mountain, follow the river down, look for the tree shaped like a giant W…” someone who had seen only the poem would likely ask “What are these directions to, and who wrote these directions? What’s this about, and why should I care?” Forrest has provided brief answers to these questions within his poem as well, which I think is very admirable in how he structured everything. If his books go out of print and crumble into dust and all of his interviews, news stories, and blog get deleted off the internet (however unlikely), the poem will keep the Chase alive on its own.

      So for example, stanza 1 may or may not contain any clues to the treasure location. I certainly don’t know for certain. But if it DOESN’T contain any clues, then I would not think that to be odd, since it is still very much serving a purpose of briefly introducing the poem-reader to the backstory of the Chase.

      Just my two cents, but I hope that looking at the poem in this respect this gives others the same amount of appreciation for the poem as it gives me. Forrest could have written us a 50-stanza poem instead of a 6-stanza one containing the same information in a much more wordy fashion, but he really did a good job IMO of condensing all of the essential information into the finished poem with only 6 stanzas.

      • blex—

        What I was trying to say is that the poem may have originally started with the stanza “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze”. But the stanzas were moved so that the beginning is now in the middle. Does that make sense? I don’t really believe this to be the case—but was postulating.

        My reference to Star Wars was in regard to the fact that if you watch the saga from the first movie—you actually START in the middle of the saga (episode 4)–so it appears to be the first in sequence–but it was created first, but is actually episode 4. Catch my drift? 🙂

      • Blex – good discussion points and reasoning. One that I would give some additional comment on, you said:

        ‘If his books go out of print and crumble into dust and all of his interviews, news stories, and blog get deleted off the internet (however unlikely), the poem will keep the Chase alive on its own.’

        f has said this about the possibility of only the poem getting a person to the location of the chest.

        Q. If in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know “in the rocky mountains north of santa fe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest?
        Thank you ~Nope
        A. Thank you Nope. Nope. f
        (8/9/16)
        http://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-with-forrest-fenn-500-years-from-now/

  39. I must have missed something…or…maybe not. All of this talk about starting the poem in the middle has me wondering if I have missed the boat entirely in this chase.
    If all of the talk stems from the recent comment Mr f made ( paraphrasing here ) if you know wwwh then you are halfway to the chest.
    Well…I agree with that statement…because…IF…you know wwwh then you have eliminated 3 states and in my guess more than 90% of the search area. Doesn`t this put a person MORE than halfway there…?
    I think I will just go fishing

      • Or… WWWH is in a different state than the chest… So you can only narrow it down to two states… 50% there

    • RickinFL: my thinking, too. Even if WWWH is not in one of the four states (and I don’t think Forrest has said anything to rule out that possibility), the fact that the chest is, and making reasonable assumptions about the distance between the start and end, drastically reduces the search area. WWWH + say a 100-mile radius will eliminate over 90% of the four-state area that’s in play.

      • Hey Zap,

        I hear what you are saying however I believe all clues are in the same state. With this being said…from wwwh to hoB in the area I believe the chest to be in it is TFTW and to drive there it may be esier to drive out of said state and come back into the back area from a state not in the main four.

    • Hi Rick – I think the discussion about starting in the middle of the poem goes back to some of these comments older comments by f –

      There is people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that is one of the clues, but, you can’t start in the middle of the poem and find the treasure, I don’t think, I mean it would be a miracle if they did.
      (8/11/15)
      http://www.outsideonline.com/2005391/forrest-fenn-treasure-hunters

      What surprises me is that so many ignore the first clue in the poem. Without it all the searcher has is the memory of a nice vacation. Although many have tried, I doubt that anyone will find the blaze before they have figured out the first clue. f
      (5/13/15)
      http://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-with-forrest-first-clue-importance/

      Knowing all the statements and quotes that f has made about finding the chest is not a requirement for finding his chest, but they can certainly make it easier and prevent a person from making some very expense miscalculations when trying to solve the poem (though more than a few are having some very nice vacations :)).

      • How do you know what the first clue is.i know blaze is a clue.but how in the world do you know where. To start.he said he did not name the poem he forgot.so why in the book map,they put the thrill of the chase.i am so lost its pitiful. Whats the difference between a hint and c a clue

        • Hello Virginia Diane. Mr. Fenn hadn’t named the poem, but “The Thrill of the Chase…A Memoir”, is the name of his book, which includes everything inside the covers. It seems many are feeling the same as you as to what the difference between a hint and a clue. I believe he said (paraphrasing) a hint is a suggestion of something, where a clue will lead you to the treasure chest. Yet, if you look up both words in the dictionary, both are close to the same meaning. Hence, we all go a little crazy.

        • It has been discussed before that a clue moves a person closer to the chest…a hint helps confirm a clue.

          Hope this helps.

        • I found one email it says the poem will take you to the treasure but you must know where WWH I will post on my Facebook page the emails just so all y’all can catch up hahah

          • If you do this, you’ll need to let others know your name, for those who do not know it.

          • Thank you, Diggin gypsy. I believe those who have/use Facebook will be greatly appreciative for what you’re doing.

          • Someone posted a few days ago where Forrest said the words alone in the poem will not lead u to the treasure. So why in my email he says all you need is the poem and to find WWH that’s confusing

          • DG;

            Forrest has repeatedly said that all you need is the poem, but that good tools include the book and a GOOD map. I see no contradiction.

            Here is just one example where he says that the book can help:
            “There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order. If you want to find the treasure chest – you have my book there – I’ll tell you how to do it. Read the book just normally … the poem and the rest of the book, and then go back and read the poem 6, 8, 10 times – study every line, every word. Then after you do that, read the book again, slowly, with the idea of looking for clues or hints, that are in the book that will help you follow the clues. You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues.” f

            NOTE:You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues.” f

            Just my 2 cents worth – JDA

        • Hi DG,

          you said…
          Someone posted a few days ago where Forrest said the words alone in the poem will not lead u to the treasure.

          IMO…if a person found a copy of the poem and had no background info on the poem then that person would not know that a treasure was hidden in association with this poem. So therefore…without a back story about the poem…it is nothing more than a poem.

          I will take you at your word for what Mr f said as I do not do facebook. I am sure someone else will chime in.

    • Rick

      I ‘m convinced that there’s a vital clue in stanza1, or at least a big hint, as to a mystery ‘start’ location near to where WWWH/canyon down can be found

      if that were the case, then WWWH being ‘halfway’, could possibly mean that it’s located halfway between the stanza1 mystery location and the chest.

      • CH,

        I agree 100% that stanza one has a clue in it.
        As for wwwh being halfway…I will have to give that some thought.

    • Rick, that is exactly right. If you know wwwh, then you eliminate 3/4ths of the states, or 75%, which is more than 50%, or half. Meaning all clues are in the same state. (It’s just your paraphrasing left out the most important word, more). In my opinion, you have it right by thinking states instead of thinking that wwwh is halfway through the 9 clues.

  40. Two questions:
    1) Is it written or said anywhere the WWWH is the first clue?
    I keep reading that the first clue is WWWH, but did FF ever say that or even hint that?

    2) When FF says people have been within 200 feet, how does he really know that?
    If I say I am searching in area x, how does FF know exactly where I was and that I was within 200 feet? The only way he would know is if someone gave him a specific landmark or something and he knows it is within 200 feet of it. Or that there is a trail or road that people go along that is within 200 feet of the treasure.
    Obviously, there is some type of marker or formation that people have specfically mentioned that he knows is near the treasure.
    My 2cents is that the treasure is within 200 feet of either a trail, road or perhaps a water feature, ie. waterfall, pond, etc..

    • Hi Mark – there are only several second-hand accounts of people saying f said that WWWH is the first clue. My ‘Chasing Words of Forrest Fenn – by Topic’ covers all of the statements very extensively (and you can probably find many of them mentioned in the WWWH threads if you do some searching, this topic has been beaten to death multiple times).

      For your second question, I think your thoughts in answering the question are a very reasonable explanation.

    • JCM is too modest – There are about five or six quotes in his works relating to the 200′ statements. His two works are well worth the money. Just my humble opinion (I get no commission) JDA

    • Mark

      I have a feeling the searcher had emailed him, explained that they had searched the length of a named river or creek, so he could then deduce exactly how far that searcher was from the chest, at their closest point along the water-course.

      or, as you mentioned, a named waterfall or pond would work too

      • Actually, if you think about it, I don’t believe the FF said that people have been 200′ away, but they have been within 200′ of the treasure.
        Which means they could have been 10 feet away, but for some reason didn’t see it.
        I do think he stated somewhere that if you were that close, you should see it. (paraphrased)

        But even 200′ is 125,600sqft or 2.77 acres. Which, in the woods can be a big area.

      • you could be right Mark, but i’m a simple sorta guy so i’m sticking with 200′ as the crow flies

        and yeah, i vaguely remember Forrest saying something about being surprised if a searcher gets within 12(?) feet of the chest, and doesn’t see it – which i s’pose is a possibility if it’s submerged in a river, but that depends on no light reflecting off the surface water (?)

        • Curious;

          Here is the quote, “: “I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.” He says, “…not Find it.” – NOT “Not SEE it.” a BIG difference. JDA

          • I believe that I am thinking along the same lines as you on this, JDA. You are implying that Forrest was not necessarily referring to easily missing the CHEST within 12 feet, but perhaps the blaze, which the chest (buried or not) would be located directly below?

          • JDA,

            VERY important observation! You saved that quote, do you happen to have a date for that statement?

            Thanks, my friend and “stay safe.”

          • LMN;
            The quote is found in Scrap Book 78 – Dated June 2014 – under “SECOND”
            JDA

          • JDA, The MW of 3/22/17…(newer that 2014-15)
            Here is the update that I have been hoping to see.

            Forrest may not feel like there is a comfortable way to update his, “within 500 feet,” and, “within 200 feet,” comments (that are rather dated) but he his a very, very creative and deep thinking man.

            “I think the gold -will again- become alert to the tromp and -vibrations- of hiking boots.” says it all.

            Can’t wait to go trout fishing. Do they bite when the water is very, very warm?

        • J(PC)DA

          i DID say ‘vaguely’ and ‘something about’ so try not to get a bee up ya butt about it.

          and there’s little difference between ‘finding’ and ‘seeing’ in this instance – unless you (solely) can magically ‘see’ something without actually ‘finding’ it ..there’s a special gift right there 🙂

          • you seem intelligent enough for the both of us Cory, so i’m sure you’ll work it out on ya little lonesome 🙂

          • Curios;

            I believe that there is a big difference, unless you are superman. If it is out in the open, you would expect to SEE it if you are within 12 feet. If it is NOT in the open, you could easily be within 12 feet and NOT see it, unless the clues had led you to the EXACT spot, and you KNEW what to look for. JDA

          • J-3PA

            i believe ET’s exist, but that doesn’t automatically make it a fact

            so maybe you could take Superman along on your next search then – he might just come in handy
            ( ..i hear he’s quite strong 🙂 )

          • CH,

            Are you a MOG? Half man, half dog… you are you’re own best friend!

          • well Fennatical, i’m def half-witted, and half-something-else (yet to be diagnosed)

            ..is it THAT obvious? 🙂

          • So many things! But if the chase is just Forrest trying to teach us a lesson, then I regret not spending more time on the things I truly treasure. I’ve been to New Mexico 15 times. Yes I know every strike brings me closer to my next home run. But how long would forrest take His own grandkids snipe hunting? In the end.. no one likes being made a fool of. Forrest ‘gave up’ .. he even knew where the end was. ‘Tired’ ‘weak’ ? Come on! Where’s the inspiration in that! White lies are OK but at what point is too far? There are only 27 outs in a baseball game – if his grandkids struck out 27 times would he still them to drop out of college to join the major leagues? Forrest is a unique, wise man and has led an extraordinary life… with great power comes great responsibility. I’m sure it’s thrilling for him to watch people search for a chest.. but he is so tricky that if it was all a metaphor for a life lesson, well.. I would be proud I stepped in the batters box 27 times but if he just sat back and watched, eating crackerjacks while we all fell flat on our face – well that’s father would never do. He never told me where am I’m going or how to get there, but he led by example, he liked to tease and be creative, but in the end he always revealed the truth. If Forrest’s treasure is what his chasers believe it to be, than I hope he forgives my lack of confidence and I’m not saying he owes us all $4 million dollars, but… hmmm… here’s an honorable question – Forrest if you are listening – how many times would you encourage your grandkids to spend time and money looking for gold with monetary value that some guy they don’t know say it’s somewhere in the Rocky Mountains?

          • There are only 2 kinds of people in this world…

            Those who believe they can, and those who believe they cannot.

            They are both right!

          • well said F – here’s the original (before Henry)

            “He who says he can and he who says he can’t are both usually right”
            – Confucius

          • Perhaps I’m missing something, Cory Chin. Do you believe there’s a treasure chest?

          • Cory;

            We all become discouraged at one time or another. You have made 15 trips to NM. I have made 10 trips to Wyoming.

            Have you learned something on each trip? I have. Have you been able to untangle even one of the knots this winter? If you have, you are one step closer. Hang in there. YOU are the only one counting the balls and strikes. None of us are keeping YOUR score.

            Hang i n there guy. JDA

          • Cory Chin, I don’t know much about Google; I use another search engine. I believe you may not be along about second guessing, but enjoy the Chase just the same. It’s out there. Think about the beautiful surroundings and the journey you’ve experienced.

          • Hi Cory Chin –

            With regards to your thoughts on how many times would he encourage his grandkids to go out hunting, here are a few things from f that I think might help give an idea of what f probably thinks about it.

            Q. How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from
            home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?)
            A. All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.
            (May 15)
            http://dalneitzel.com/2017/02/25/scrapbook-one-hundred-sixty-six-2/

            I think failure to find the chest a few times out is f’s expectation, even if you have the correct location figured out.

            Sage says don’t try and carry it home in one trip
            (2/26/16)
            http://mysteriouswritings.com/weekly-words-from-forrest-fenn-on-the-thrill-of-the-chase/

            And then this from f.

            Q. In your mind, who would be the best person or family to find this treasure?
            A. A family that is joined together and going out looking for the treasure 4, 5, or 10, or 50
            times. Take a tent and sleeping bags, and your fishing pole and go out looking. That was my
            primary motive. (6:40)
            (7/12/15)
            http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-hunt-for-forrest-fenns-treasure/

            If f were encouraging his grandkids to keep going, I think his emphasis for them would be on making sure they take the tent, sleeping bags, and fishing poles. With those things, go 100 times, 1000 times, and make sure you make the most of and enjoy that outdoor camping experience each time you go.

            The thing about f’s comment about a unemployed redneck and family being the kind of person he hoped might find the chest, at least to me, is the time factor. No trip of just a couple of days, butter unemployed redneck has a potential whole summer to get out and look and spend on location trying to put it all together. f spent his summers as a kid, with his family, surviving on very little, hugely dependent on what the wilderness could provide for them. I am comfortable with the idea of that kind of time commitment with BOTG for a person (redneck) to figure it all out and find the chest, though I hope it really won’t take that much time in the end for the person who finds it.

            Ultimately, it is all about how well one is able to think it all through, put it all together, and make that final walk, with a smile on your face, as you go to the resting spot of f’s treasure chest.

          • Cory, at least you are looking in the correct state, NM.
            I think the biggest error FF ever said, which was a reasonable error.

            “I knew exactly where to hide the chest so it would be difficult to find but not impossible. It’s in the mountains somewhere north of Santa Fe”

            I think we need to remember that when FF wrote the book there wasn’t the expectation that a whole bunch of people would know about it. Privately published and sold at a single bookstore in Santa Fe.
            Not many people outside of the his circle knew about him.

            I live in Colorado Springs, CO. If someone asked me where Rocky Mountain National Park was, I wouldn’t say, “in the mountains somewhere North of Colorado Springs” I would say “in the Rocky Mountains in Northern Colorado.”

            I would almost bet, and this is my opinion, that he expected a few hundred people to be looking for it.

            But when the Today show got wind of it, it took off. And now thousands started looking for it.
            And now his smaller, “difficult but not impossible” area was going to be flooded with people. And either it would be found soon, or NM is going to get trashed by treasure hunters.

            So, the only way to fix it is to widen the search area. So, hey, instead of the mountains somewhere north of SF, it’s now in the Rocky mountains North of Santa Fe, all the way up to Canada.
            And really, if the only promotion of your book is it sitting on the shelf in a privately owned bookstore, who do you expect to find it. Maybe someone passing through town. And while there are there, maybe the can get out and about looking for a treasure that’s near by.
            And only if you read the book you would know about the treasure. It doesn’t say anything on the outside, only on the inside sleeve.
            Anyway, there was no reason at all for him to change “mountains somewhere North of Santa Fe” to the “Rocky Mountains North of Santa Fe” except to widen the search area and prolong the finding of it.

            But again, that’s my opinion.

          • Corey ” Forrest if you are listening – how many times would you encourage your grandkids to spend time and money looking for gold with monetary value that some guy they don’t know say it’s somewhere in the Rocky Mountains?”

            Obviously I can’t answer for fenn. However I think the answer falls to the individual[s] and self control. Sure, who wouldn’t like a lottery of a million plus… but are you or many others in the financial shape to spend thousands to keep going out every weekend?

            Folks keep complaining about money spent, even blame fenn for all that money spent… when it’s there own fault the can’t control their obsessions and frustrations.

            So I’ll turn the tables and ask you… how many time would you go, spend thousands, if you were attempting to solve this challenge for a box full of marbles?

          • I’m sure he would say don’t spend what ya don’t have lol people who go in debt looking are idiots I have been selling rail road spikes for trip money lol Walk down tracks and u can pick up buckets full 🙂

        • Sometimes I feel like Forrest has his own team! A HUGE one! Does anyone else feel like that? Maybe his Pueblo has like an underground lab filled with hundreds of tennis players cookin quinoa

          Forrest – not sure if you’re a mavs fan, but congrats to Dirk for 30,000 points.. he lit us up the other night

          • Seeker, in one interview Forrest said if someone would have told him when he was young that somebody put a chest full of gold somewhere in the Rocky Mountain’s, he would be out there turning every rock over looking for that thing.

          • thomas,
            Thought he said he would look under every bush.
            Not completely sure though.
            I’m sure someone has the right quote out there.

        • CH – you bring back into play something that was mentioned earlier somewhere else on Dal’s blog, whether intentional or not in your comment about a crow flying. We all know 200 feet is roughly two-thirds the length of a football field, which for most of us is not that big an area to cover. In my opinion, Mr. Fenn is thinking like a pilot and is using the third dimension of elevation, either above or below one’s vantage point. Just keep in the forefront of your mind that an 80 year old man put Indulgence in its current resting spot. Good luck on your search!

    • Mark,
      On your second question… I like to keep in mind this is where fenn intended as his final resting place. A couple hundred feet from any traveled area is risky to say the least. Forget about the chest being hidden… the body could be discovered relatively easy a passerby. Then think about if the remains were discover… the place would be torn to shreds looking for the chest.

      “If you can’t make two trips from your car to your solve in several hours, then don’t go.”

      Depending on your definition of several hours, I would think that would be a minimum 3 hours with two trips involved, the least distance from a traveled area would be 45 mins. one way walking. That hardly sounds like 200′ [ of course there will be some who will use the excuse, fenn only tells 85% of the truth. So, in their perfect little solve… blah blah blah ]

      Just saying….

      As to your first question… fenn has never stated what the first clue is in his own words [ video / audio ], and those who claim he stated wwwh have no proof to back up the claim.
      The one question I have to ask is; why is that?? why has wwwh, as the first clue, only been mentioned by second or third parties, and not from fenn himself. I mean, he leveled the playing field about wwwh is not a dam… Right?

      We all can believe what we like… I like facts…

      • Well one time in a letter years ago I asked him if I got the first two clues and he said I don’t know did you find wwwh yet so I pretty sure that’s the first clue

        • DG;

          Since you asked him if you got the first TWO clues correct, he could be saying that wwwh = clue #2…Don’t you think? JDA

        • DG, without knowing how you asked the question… we can’t assume how he answered to that question.

          Example; Hey FF, I think wwwh is the first clue, canyon down clue two, hoB clues three, no place for the meek might be clue four… did i get the first two clues?
          ‘I don’t know, did you find wwwh yet?’

          That doesn’t say wwwh is the first clue… it simply asks did you find it.

          Are you willing to share the what was actually stated in the letter?

          • I doubt she will post it. She may not want anyone else to see where her search area is.

          • Sure it will take me awhile to find it And yea could be clue one or 2 lol the way he responds who knows he tricky

          • It’s not a matter of the search area Rick, as much as the way the question was presented.

            A simple solution would be; I told FF my clues… I asked this question [ exact wording ] he answered [ exact wording ]. The search process can be covered or blacked out.

            Here’s an example, in an interview;
            ~An important clue
            One thing Fenn will say is that most people are missing the most important clue; “begin it where warm waters halt”. When you solved this clue, he shared, and the others will fall into place. “If you don’t know ‘where warm water halts,’ Fenn said, “you don’t have anything.” It’s not much, but it’s a start.~

            These supposed quotes are not confirmable without a video/audio/ or fenn directly answering [ such as an email he wrote ]. Why has this comment of the first clue never been stated by fenn in any Q&A, interview that was recorded directly, BUT only pass to the readers as fact in an interview such as the above. And imo, an opinion of the interviewer.

            I really wish some one could show me [us] where fenn states the first clue is WWWH that can actually be verified…
            So yes, I’m putting DG on the spot. I hope she comes through…

          • U ain’t putting me on the spot your right he may of said it to where it was tricky trying to find it

          • Kinda strange CC,
            I guess he is telling us where he hid the treasure, he never went with anyone else.

            Maybe a clue in there but I think it’s more of a hint.

            I would be willing to bet he always went into this spot alone.

          • Jake;

            Just because the poem says that at the time that he went “in there” alone, to hide the treasure, does not mean that he and someone else – possibly he and his father, – could not have gone there together previously. I would bet that his “Hidey Spot” was special to Forrest because of the trips that he and his father made there – together!. Just my impression. JDA

          • He considers this place his alone.
            No Marv, no Mom, no bro’s, nobody.
            NADA.
            His alone when he went there, not to say someone else went there when he wasn’t around. But that’s unlikely.

          • That is true.
            I just wonder if that statement pertained to the hiding spot or….

          • Jake that is a good question.
            I believe the area the chest is in is special to Forrest not just because he and his father spent time there but also because it is a place that was untouched by tourists. A place off of the beaten path…a place where a mountain man or native american could have been the last to walk in the area before Forrest and his dad did.

        • Hi Diggin’: if Fenn’s wording was pretty close to what you have here, then all he’s really saying is that WWWH is either the first clue, the second clue, or both of them together. Now, in my opinion, if your WWWH is your first clue, you have the wrong WWWH. That said, I’m confident you are not only in the right state, you are in the right general area of the right state, and you very likely have been within 500 feet of the treasure — probably closer. But you did so unknowingly.

          I know you are committed to your general search location (though based on the descriptions of places you’ve been, that covers a HUGE area!) If you can nail down the clue in the first stanza, you’ll absolutely never search anywhere other than where you are now.

          • I miss quoted his email. Was forever ago it’s on my Facebook if u wanna read it exact. My brain scrambles words and I’ll always look in west Yellowstone

          • DG,
            I think everyone here has misquoted him at some time.
            You should post the email conversation here to clear the air.
            FB is BS.

            PS: I still think WWWH is the 1st clue considering logic dictates after “begin it”.

          • DG,
            Thanks for posting those.
            I’m not registered on FB, but know someone who is and have a look later.

            Appreciated

    • Hi Mark:
      Q1: Negative.
      Q2: Within 200′ of an easily, and regularly visited spot, is my opinion. But there could be very good reasons why those last 200 feet are non-trivial, which would make approaching closer than that very unlikely unless you knew you needed to.

  41. Seeker
    Begin it WWWH. FF has stated in the poem where to start. Don’t mess with the poem. All the clues are in correct order.

    To others, put in below the HOB. Park below the HOB. So IMO, HOB is not a source of water.

    MM

  42. Just got my power back after four days in SE Michigan. Did I miss anything? How many people have found the treasure? Will the successful searcher please get me out of here? Also my condolences to New England for what they are in for tomorrow.

    • 4 days without power!! Did you have chase withdrawl? I hope you at least had heat.
      Just when you think the ground hog was wrong mother nature says hold on a minute.
      I’m next in line for this storm, right in the bullseye..yikes

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *