Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…


Please click on the comment balloon below to contribute to the discussion of  Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Hunt. Please note that many topics have their own pages. Please scroll through the blog to see all the discussion pages. There are also stories, scrapbooks, searcher’s reports general information, tips from Forrest, a rumors blog and even email responses from Forrest. So please look around and if you want to make a comment please use the most appropriate page.




340 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…

  1. Just an interesting fact on the previous conversation about artist George Bellows, some guy named Bill Gates purchased one of his paintings for 27.5 million dollars.

    • Interesting point, When I get to spot , Ill keep it secret we all have our own fishing spots that are special, They all come from the same source anyway, I have to do whats right when I find it. Just my thoughts.

      • gc,
        getting closer to what?
        Come on buddy, how about a quick introduction. If you are new to the chase let us know so we can heckle you some.
        In case you haven’t heard JD & Iron W are in a race to the finish line, poor Seeker hasn’t left the starting gate

  2. Good Evening Fellow Searchers,

    Been awhile since I’ve posted, but have dropped by as a lurker from time to time to hear the latest buzz. Guess it’s that time of year when many are saying “it will be found soon..”.

    Working on the line “Begin it” and wondered if anyone is willing to discuss this line of thought: What if BIWWW means 32 degrees, as in the southern border of NM, as a direction TO FLY FROM from the beginning, Temple, TX? (“Look at the big picture…”). Then keep going west until you hit the Grand Canyon. (“…take it in the canyon..”), then you land (“down”), from there its BOTG.

    Any takers?

    ~ Wisconsin Mike

    • Well if you go 32 degrees from the Dot on Santa Fe N.M. , the line goes right through Hyde Park, where we had Fenboree 😛

    • Wisconsin Mike, I from Missouri and looking to get to the Rockies, your not to far from me but it’s too far to walk for me, I have a wife and six kids,…… ahh ya six, anyway I have something that if you were to see with out taking my word for it, you would see with your own eyes. ( Private ) Looking to team up with someone, my wife put a stop to me taking the car, you know, all those kids. Just saying, we could go out and show them mountain people how it’s done, lol , I could show you WWWH, IF you knew where the treasure was, how soon could you leave?

    • Mike,
      Fenn ~”…Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues.” —-
      “Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close.” —
      “There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest.”– (Moby Dickens Book Shop Signing / November 2, 2013) —
      “There have been some who have been within 500 feet because they have told me where they have been.  Others have figured the first two clues and went right past the treasure and didn’t know it.” 

      Mike, You have the first two clues hundreds of mile apart. Can you explain fenn’s comments that -seem- to imply the clues are closer?

      • I’m with Seeker on this one. I think Fenn possibly mentioned the searcher with 32 degrees, not because it was correct, but because it was an original idea.

        If I remember correctly, the searcher was also mentioned by name. In my mind this is a red flag because typically when Fenn drops hints, they can be interpreted in an infinite number of ways. Fenn probably appreciates the creativity, but not so much the correctness of the solve

      • Seeker, Always glad that you share these accurate quotes, however, would you agree that all instances of ff saying something similar would be at least 18-months ago? I would like to think that “some” have been much closer at this point and that is why ff has declined recent requests to provide an update to those statements.

        • LMN, most of the quotes are about the first two clues, more than how close to the chest.
          And my point to Mike’s clues..

          Personally, I don’t think it’s important about when the comment was made as much as how many comments about a subject is made to get an accurate thought process.

        • LMN – I think this statement from f at the end of 2016 sums up nicely all the previous years of statements by f on this topic:

          Many searchers told me the general area in which they are looking. I didn’t read the long emails, but in most of the short ones I looked for key words that would get my attention. Several did this year and I hope my lack of an email response was not taken as a clue.


          I mostly lean towards the idea that the status quo hasn’t changed much over the years. Like all the years before, many are all fired up and convinced they will soon be off to pick up the chest, and just like history, many will return home disappointed, wondering where they went wrong.

          • JCM
            I believe you are correct in your idea (status quo) except that I believe now there is significant progress that Fenn cannot comment about without giving away the farm. His later comment about maybe four clues gives me reason to believe this.
            Those that are convinced that they are going straight out to retrieve the chest soon most likely will have the same excuses as all the rest before them. Some may just disappear like most of the originals.

          • JCM, Thanks for the reply. As with most communications from ff there is a whole lot of room for interpretation and difference of opinion. I am a bit more optimistic that he is seeing signs that there could be a conclusion but will not respond to those communications (not desiring to influence the Chase one way or another). You have to respect that integrity and overall dedication to fairness.

      • Hi Seeker,

        Always nice to hear from you. Thank you also for a thoughtful commentary.

        Regarding the recent bait I tossed out, it seems I gotten a few bites. Do you feel that Forrest has specified that the first two clues are in close proximity to the rest? I’m still not so sure. If, for instance, someone followed my logic (?) initially, couldn’t that have gotten them on the ground (BOTG), but from there they were uncertain? I just have a sneaking suspicion that a flyover is somehow involved. (of course, that could just be Spring Fever…)

        ~ Wisconsin Mike

        • Mike,
          With all the comments I read on the first two clues, the words walked, went, doesn’t seem to me that the first two clues are a large distance apart.

          But… I did have a theory not unlike your thoughts that the clues are spread over a large area… and all pointed to a very small location. No stomping involved. However, for me to trust that theory, I would need to use fenn’s words “walked by” “went passed” all the remaining clues [ and the chest ] as metaphorical in meaning. I’m not sure it I believe that… I think fenn meant exactly what he stated. Some of the searchers who deciphered, figured out the first two clues, told him where they were, told him their process actually walked from those two clue and all the others.

          It’s just a stretch at this point with the after the fact comments that we need to fly, drive, horseback, jump a train or hop skip and jump across the country. But that’s just me.

          • Seeker,
            Of course I’m not stuck on this current line of thinking, and I greatly appreciate this discourse, but I still haven’t heard a strong argument against the first two clues, if that’s what WWWH and take it in the canyon down, are, as not being seen from the air. Couldn’t “not far, but too far to walk” indicate getting there by some other means? – drive, boat, via air? In this line of reasoning, I see the word “down” as being a stand alone meaning ‘to land the plane’ with “not far, but too far to walk” being descriptive how far along the canyon you travel, seeking a “home of Brown” as a landing area.

            ~ Wisconsin Mike

          • Seeker,
            Again, my point being that after the first two clues (little girl from India) we’re on the ground and BOTG from here.

            ~ Wisconsin Mike

          • Mike,
            If we twist it a bit it might work. Drop the flying and use birds-eye view and lets call that a map [line of thinking].

            The problem with an aerial view from a plane… it limits the opportunity for all to see it from that vantage point. [ just trying to think realistically, cost wise]. Perhaps this is why fenn stated “GE and/or a good map. GE gives that birds-eye view.

            So NFBTFTW might be that birds-eye view [elevation]. But, does that mean… “Put in” below hoB to be something found on a map as well… if ‘put in’ is to mean, bring yourself back to ground level?
            At this point, “from there…” would be botg.

            The thought is about the same as what you said… just slightly different.

        • Wisconsin Mike – On the topic of distances between the clues, I have always thought f’s statement in TFTW about threading a tract through the wiles of nature and circumstance to be very interesting as related to this point.

          At the end of the day, the poem is taking us precisely to a very, very specific spot; the 9 items of guidance in the poem, which get us to that spot, doesn’t afford a lot of extra space to be running us all over the country-side if those clues are going to get us precisely there.

          Just an opinion.

  3. fennshui…if you’re interested in a Bellows, BELOW is a fun passage from his biography that touches on some fun coincidences. (It is said that he was the missing ninth from “The Eight” and should have been included) forgive the tangent…Im a total self admitted printing/publishing geek.

    “Along with being a great painter, George Bellows was also one of this country’s greatest printmakers, who exploited the technique of lithography to make prints that are as fresh and natural-looking as a charcoal sketch. In executing these designs, George Bellows worked closely with the great printer Bolton Brown, who along with George Miller ranks as one of the two most significant American lithographers of the 20th century. The delicacy of Brown’s printing, however, was unique. While Miller produced richly tonal effects for artists such as Thomas Hart Benton and Grant Wood, Brown produced lithographs with a silvery delicacy that almost perfectly matches a pencil line, and gives Bellows’s prints the fresh, silvery appearance of actual drawings.”

    • Im more a fan of Hertzog and Spud Johnson when it comes to printing myself…but nonetheless F definitely puts effort into his own printing choices as well.

  4. Oz,

    Re: Your Odds-n-Ends 24 post to: Jonsey1, one curious thing about this statement is not what will they know in the future that we don’t, it is why ff is so sure that whatever these clues refer to will not change in the future. It is difficult to envision what would be 500 years from now, especially because 500 ago this was not even a country.

    ‘…Not all clues existed when I was a kid, but MOST of the PLACES the clues refer to did’. I wonder, did some of those places also existed back in 1776 when the country was founded? How about back in 1492? He thought about everything as far as we know, but how will you go about using clues to pinpoint to places (or geographical features) and be sure those places,names or labels will not change in the next 100 years?

    Oz, In the solution that I intend to apply this spring/summer (6) of the clues would be “places” that existed when ff was a “kid” and likely in 1776 and very possibly in 1492. The remaining (3) would apply with some combination of double entendre or the use of historical research “1000” and maybe even “10,000” years from now (if the Lord tarries – yet, not if He should tarry scant).

    So my question remains, do you know any good, retired trout fishing guides that might “volunteer” services in exchange for a few turquoise beads and a little silver?

    • I think the first clue and the last clue will never change and the middle represents the present day, meaning time and what in packs humans put on the middle clues could change, Fenn has said “If can’t find the chests location go back to the first clue “. If any clue in the middle of the poem disappeared you could still find the chest it would just be a little harder, along with people has figured out the first two clues and walk right past, tells me that just the first clue will most likely take you in the direction of the chest, you stick the first one and connect the last one with the first one, I’d say you would have it.

      • I don’t know, I think he is just saying make sure you have the right starting point… because if you don’t find the treasure in NM and it really rests in Colorado… you need to go back and make sure you are at the right WWWH IMO

        • Well I not sure about that, if that’s what he is saying it sounds like that would be a waste of breath to Mr Fenn, the Rocky Mountain’s is the starting point and people have figured out the first clue wwwh’s and didn’t come up with the chest, if they would have researched the place wwwh’s they may have found a connection with another place a few miles down the road which would send them in the right direction. Forrest already said to start from the beginning of his poem, that would be repeating himself plus it’s common sense if you can’t find it your in the wrong spot! I’m a big believer on how Fenn put his poem together which matches the way TS Eliot speaks in Little Gidding, every line in the poem has a beginning and a end. Ex. You begin where warm waters halts but the end of that line will be in the canyon down, also not far but too far to walk, each line your at one point which takes you to another point by the end of that line. Now if you look at the poem in a whole it to will have a beginning and a end, the end will lead you to a legible stone that will be around forever, ( the center point ) just like a spinning wheel has a center point which never moves. But to find the correct center point , ( the end ) you must locate the correct beginning and it will tell you the history of the ending ( your destination ). I also believe the middle of the poem could even be meaning the name of roads like a directional map, the reason I say that is if your not from the area how would you know where the old Johnson barn used to be? Just saying, this is only what I think and no one can say I’m wrong unless they come up with the chest and prove I’m wrong, and on the other hand I can’t prove I’m right unless I come up with the chest.

      • Hi Thomas,
        I think you meant to make a reference to what Forrest wrote on January 6, 2017 at Jenny’s site under Surprise And Random Words:

        ” *If you don’t know where it is, go back to the first clue.f ”

        I agree, your interpretation makes perfect sense, but there is scope for that quote to mean something different. It might mean that a searcher who doesn’t know where the first clue is located should go back to working on the first clue.

    • Lmn, that is what I’m thinking, yet I do not have the count.

      The only retired fishing guide I know is ff himself, and yes he will do it for the bracelet.

      If you know where the chest is precisely, send him an email with the location and the date and time you will be there to retrieve it and he may show up and do a little trout fishing with you. He’s done it tired…

      • Oz, As much as I like that idea of yours and as thrilling as it would be to share that moment, I come from a long and deep family line of practical jokers and teasers. I don’t know ff well enough to know if I would end up talking to a actor in a Park Ranger costume with handcuffs rattling in my ears when I am trying to go, “in there.” So, as recommended, when / if my schedule finally allows and I would be privileged to see those clues with my own eyes , I go alone.

    • LMN. IMHO, that is also my approach to the solve, I have posted that before.
      If you find the 6 correct places, join the dots on a map, it will reveal the shape and location of the blaze.
      I believe that most lines in the poem are anagrams that will reveal hints and clues. It is subjective as to what is a clue or hint, I think people are getting too hung up on this subject.
      My search State is Montana, where are you looking?
      Good luck with your search and I hope you identify the 6 correct places.

    • Doesn’t anyone else think it’s odd for F to keep talking about what he has done in his life?

      Yea, the chase & his life, the books, SB’s, WW’s, Surprise Words, Random Words, Questions, F gets mail. The list goes on and on.

      I think there are hints in all & he would like the bracelet before he passes on.

      Screw 1,000 years down the road.
      I think he would have kept his mouth shut tight if he didn’t want it to be found within his lifetime, wherever that is.

      • That sounds like a desperate reaction in my book, Jake…

        Let look at it another way;
        Took 15 years of rewrites on the poem.
        Over 20 years on planning and final execution of hiding the chest and creating an avenue to deliver the poem to the public.
        Spent obscene amount of his money not only to by and collect the items and the chest, plus started a publishing company to do it all.
        Spends money on lawyer[s] for what ever reasons he had.
        Gives away all profits and sale of the book TTOTC.
        And doesn’t tell another soul where the chest is hidden. Not even his Mrs. Fenn.

        Sure, why not… it’s now a total of 29 years from the birth of the thought and who knows how much truly spent { with all the above and a million plus trove }.
        NAAAA, he wasn’t looking down the road at all… “and like Eric Sloane at almost eighty, I figured it was time to act”

        “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. ****People don’t understand that.”****
        “Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with their imagination. ***I have done only a few things in my life that were truly planned. Hiding the treasure chest is one of them.”***

        Screw all these facts and comments as well? LOL, Man you make me laugh…

        • Desperation?
          I think not.
          Why else would he be very active in the chase??

          I’ll bet he had over 80% of the poem done 15 years ago & changed little.

          Does not give all profits from sale of TTOTC.

          What’s “flippant” mean anyway to him or anyone else?

          Why all the chatter from him in 7 years?
          Awful lot of communication for someone that doesn’t want it found till U.S. maybe another country?

          I think he wants it to be found in his lifetime while it’s still somewhat sane.
          Screw that into your head unless it’s stripped.

          • Seeker & Jake – Jake raises a very valid argument. Why would f continue to share so many things and be a part of his chase if he didn’t want the chest to be found? After all he hid the chest so it could be found by someone.

            Think back to the New Mexico True Searchers video that was done a couple of year back. F said “Do I want the chest to be found in my lifetime, a part of me says yes, but a part of me says no.” I personally think f created the chase as a goal and would like to see his goal come to fruition. I also think, like Jake said, that many of the communications that f has shared with us contain hints.

            Think about this Seeker. If you personally set a goal, wouldn’t you want to see the end result?

            Of course you may overthink this to death and ask more questions instead of acting upon what f has told us all. If that’s what you choose to do then have fun while the rest of the searchers at least attempt to figure out the elusive poem with actions instead of just words.

          • You go Hma,
            Us smarter peeps know he wants it found before the end.
            The other sheeps just keep twirlin around the grass chasing their …

            It’s very obvious that’s the case & I’m sure his family lets him know.

          • Good grief … The man has millions tied up in a challenge, more than 20 years invested, and you are SurpriseD he is involved as much as he is???

            Did ya know of the original plan… to go to his special spot and take it with him?
            What did he say when he walked back to his car and laughed out loud… It’s out of my hands?

            Here’s a thought… write a memoir of some stories in your life. Write an autobiography of who you are and why this was done, and place it in a trove. Write a poem that contains clue that will lead to that special spot.
            And, maybe, make it difficult by having the poem nothing about you… nothing about the stories and very subtle clues if you can recognize them to help.
            Important possibility?
            Difficult, but not impossible.
            I mean, why bother making a 20,000 word bio, take the effort to make it so small it can’t be read by eye… when the book is out into the public and he wants it found now… really?
            How long would it take you to make a lengthily book/bio that can only be read with a magnifying glass?
            Don’t worry about looking up words and meanings, fenn’s not tell the truth, right?
            Don’t worry about how the poem might play out in a 1000 years, he didn’t mean that either, right?

            I can wait till ya’ll get back from your ~I know I solved the poem vacations.

            “…I am determined to stay aloof of
            providing any additional clues that are useful. Everyone has the same information to work with….”

            Ya’ll remember the useless clues comments?

          • I see the bolt is cross threaded Seeker.
            Try to back it out & start over.

            There is & has been no one as involved as F with his treasure quest as apposed to others that I can see. This website & others were created from the chase & where he likes to post things all the time as well as Jenny’s site from the beginning.

            Yea, some of the stories are just that from life experiences he wants to share but a lot of material he shares have hints.
            Why else would the area in which the chest lays shrink?
            Because of him.

            If he didn’t want it found until 3017 then why would he keep on talking?

            He is a cow that keeps giving milk but won’t give a steak.

            What about his family? Do you think he cares more about the chase than his family?

            He is now on the fast track to see the end.

        • Seeker – You remind me of “that customer” that is holding up the line at say Burger King. When the employee is ready to take your order, you ask them what the Whopper consists of even though everyone north of 3 years of age know what the Whopper is made of. When they answer you, you then start in with questions about how many fries will be included with the meal and whether the pickles were grown organically or not. Your holding up the rest of the line.

          Seriously Seeker! Why won’t you take action instead of running endless scenarios back at other searchers? F did say (paraphrasing) that someone will solve the clues and walk to the treasure. That to me implies thinking and acting, not just thinking. Maybe you’ve got some inside scoop that says we should all sit around and ponder the poem instead of actually taking action at some point. You either sit on the pot forever or you take action. Have fun sitting around while others actually do something. Even if searchers fail while trying at least they will have tried.

          • LOL!! I guarantee that ya’ll cain’t suck air in fast enough, nor bring a big enuff lunch, to out-bark ole yeller,….he like one of them Energizer Bunnies….he jest keeps agoing and going!!!! 🙂

            Good Luck to All Ya’ll

          • HMA – Seeker is a very interesting guy. I have had various thoughts and opinions of him over the years, but I consider him to be a great friend in the chase and out of it. He doesn’t reveal much about himself personally online (most of us don’t), but from private conversations, I have come to have a deep respect for who he is as a person, even with his apparent warts and all. We all have our flaws.

            The online world provides various screens and filters that prevent us from knowing and understanding things about each other that would otherwise be plain and clear if we sat down around a campfire together.

            Where others would have long-ago thrown in the towel, Seeker continues to push forward and thrive. Don’t put it past him to one day make that botg walk; for some of us, it is easier to go and do, in many of the ways and facets of life.

          • Yea Hma,
            You cannot have it your way in this chase.
            I see it’s like going in a circle & never knowing where the center is.

            I’ll bet those tomato’s are GMO’s.

          • A good friend of mine found the $2500 treasure hidden by the “Colorado Treasure Hunts” organization. His trick was to go to the area where the treasure was hidden and then he just sat and watched where all the other searchers were looking. He was able to eliminate all the places the treasure wasn’t. He then walked right to it. Seeker is a smart guy!!

          • JCM, you know that comment got me to thinking

            NOW I HAVE THIS IMAGE in my head that Seeker looks like Lemmy from MOTORHEAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            IMO, Lemmy performed Enter Sandman better than Metallica

            Also,imo why would anybody want to go into professional sports, if they had any musical talent?

      • Hey Jake…If we double down the big picture “Inception” style we might assume F telling all those stories and engaging because he is actually on a chase of his own looking for the person who would be able to solve the poem and wants to find them. The hunt itself merely a perfectly tied fly for the rare fish. Who knows.. Maybe they stole a painting from him awhile back, or they bet him they could in a past life or something. Goofy…you got my back on this one, right?

        He doesn’t actually care if the chest is found in his lifetime, just wants to find the person that would or could find it.

        (This post is entirely for amusement purposes…I think. Lol.)

        • Or MAYBE….he hid it for himself in his next life.

          Knowing, or course, he would be tempted to play his own game even if he didnt know he was actually him before so hes trying to leave himself many subtle clues to remind his future self.

          Anyone know what happened to this empty box of wine?

          • ^sorry if that was annoying. I do believe there is a “looking down the road” element for sure not joking about that but the rest was just because I literally just watched Inception for the first time and it prompted silly ideas that made me giggle.

          • Our reincarnated selves don’t stand a chance solving this puzzle against FF 2.0 say in a hundred years from now.

          • Jonesy,
            The movie “Frequency” from year 2000 starring Denis Quaid is quite apt to this scenario . Collapsing Time within the constructs of the mind . The only barrier is programmed belief. I had a similar experience that only a sane person would remain sane by the experience. A genius in their time is usually perceived as loony.It is later that they are reviewed as being ahead of their time. What they knew then as ‘out there’ becomes the normal now,later.

          • Hi Jonsey1. Interesting. Space_Time Dilation: Consider the mathematical function of perceived time elapsed versus actual time if all the mass in the universe were nearby (as in the big bang)? Assuming the function is aggressively radical, (whether time passed more slowly then or faster then) either scenario would necessarily imply that the universe is significantly younger than traditional linear time projection dictates. Society at all levels has yet to internalize this scientific fact IMO.

        • That’s an interesting way to think about it Jonsey1.
          He is actually on the chase to see the winners but I do think he cares when it is found. Why did he put the bracelet in the chest then regretted it & wants it back?

          For someone 1000 years down the road to find it & dig up his grave & put it on his wrist if, it’s not dust by then?

          His writing is on the wall. This wall here & Jenny’s site & the books of course.

        • We all seem to find those hidden messages within the stories of that master wordsmith. So who knows? One of these days however far in the future when the snow retreats from the spring, the end may draw nigh, some crazy dreamer may b goin in there, and we may for sure know who was able to claw their way to the truth.

          • Clee, how can one know for sure who was able to claw their way to the truth, when, as you stated, ‘far in the future’? Hope my question makes sense.

          • Clee, it seems your post can be read two ways, not knowing where a comma should be placed.

      • Jake, I don’t think it is particularly odd that Forrest likes sharing stories about his life. I think that anyone around his age who has lived a long, full life has gained a good amount of wisdom and has the same desire to share stories and lessons to younger people. He’s gotten a lot of people’s attention with the Chase, and while he’s got everyone’s ear, he’s getting some of his most important messages across: Don’t squander your life sitting in front of a television all day, get outside, meet people, learn a hobby, learn to craft something, do things that make life worth living, etc. These are nice life lessons that all of us can benefit from, as opposed to finding the treasure chest, which will only benefit the single finder.

        I may be wrong on this and you may turn out to be completely right that every story in his books and on this website contains a subtle hint to finding the treasure. But I think it’s good to enjoy the stories for what they are at face value too, before dissecting them for hints.

        • Incidentally, to follow up on the topic that JDA had started on the last archived Odds & Ends Page, I think that a lot of topics like this would be resolved once the location of the treasure chest is finally revealed. Once we know the hiding spot, we can go back over all of Forrest’s posts & stories and see if he was in fact giving us hints the whole time.

          That’s why I hope that whoever finds the chest takes to heart “The Golden Rule” and does let all of the other searchers know what the final solve is. I’ll definitely share the location if I’m the lucky one, and I hope if someone else finds it first, that they also share the solve with all of the other searchers out there. To have the Chase fizzle out without any resolution seems particularly cruel to me.

        • I agree with your 1st paragraph Blex.
          Of course he wants to share his life experiences & I will add that he likes to sprinkle hints in some of the statements.

          I am not completely right & know this. Sorry for using the “all” word.
          I meant to say that many of his statements have hints. Some stories & statements may have many purposes.

          I want my bracelet back!

  5. Hi, I have seen talk on will the final solution be revealed, I would guess not. Why? If the answer is revealed and in 10,000 years who would get their minds caught in this puzzle teaching us to confirm our thoughts and research to places and people. Also who could learn from his wisdom that it is our family and the time we spend with them is most important hence his push to get us outside with our families searching. Even if we were to lose touch with them we can always reconnect when the time is right.

    If Forrest doesn’t release the poem solution or his autobiography I conclude we can learn about Forrest simply enough if we read his released books and other online materials. The autobiography is in super small print which is not easily read could be a clue. The autobiography could have been written for the writer not the reader. The discovered autobiography in the chest may be private if that it true it should not be released. Maybe his bracelet is wrapped around the bio. and thats the reason he wants the bracelet back. If he is still alive when the chest is found. The finder could also choose to write their own words which may become public or stay hidden.

    One one could also hide their own autobiography in a chest, or one could just keep it close to their heart, for aren’t they the same place.

    Be safe out there searchers, it will be warm and dry soon.


  6. Just got back from New Mexico and thought for sure the treasure was hid in the Santa Fe River area but there is no access to it. The whole area is the watershed. Very big disappointment!!

    • james,

      Unfortunately, the Santa Fe River is not 8.25 miles North of Santa Fe. It begins approx. 7 miles North of the northern boundary of Santa Fe.

      I live about 1/2 mile from the Santa Fe river, and I have yet to see water in it.

      Not much of a ‘watershed’ in my humble opinion. 🙂

      • So when Fenn said 66000 links or 8.25 miles from Santa Fe, did he mean the boundary line or the circle on the map? If he meant the border or boundary lines the Hyde park would not be far enough either then. Is this correct? I wish I lived down in your area it is such an awesome place!!

  7. I would make a list of early solves that came within 200 feet of the treasure.
    But I am pretty sure that most of them either go through Cimarron, NM or Yellowstone National Park. Since the Fennboree is going to be in Hyde Park again I will settle for going there instead. The Big Tesuque creek is always promising.

  8. if I was going to look for the treasure chest – I would start at Cochiti lake that is my wwwh – then I would get on 285 north on the rio grande canyon and before I would go to far i would turn left on rio chama to me it is canyon down and would take it in go west to abiquiu res – south of there – what is near and dear to him – there is a very large land formation of an upside down head of a dear that to me is hob – from there i would go north to the the end of the water which to me is waters high no paddle i would leave it behind that is where the water is being released in to the chama creek that to me would be no paddle up your creek for right now that would be as far as i want to go all this is in my opinion

  9. wasn’t the treasure chest placed at the spot forrest wanted to die.and didn’t he say it still is? got me thinking,where has he been that is so special that he wants or wanted to die there.didn’t he tell some little girl in one of his scrapbooks or something,I’ll show you a forest?not in a dangerous place,but be careful.people have walked passed it,but it suspose to be not near a human path,right or wrong?if he made his own path or followed an animal path,wouldn’t it be sprung back up now by growth of nature,so this part puzzles me,anyone with ideas.

    • virginia, I believe that FF’s words are pretty straightforward
      and down-to-earth in the poem, although the use of some
      imagination is quite important to a good solve.

      When he told us that the TC is not in close “proximaty” to a
      human trail, I think he was referring to a clearly-seeable
      trail, as one might find marked with a signpost, indicating
      the name of the trail, perhaps, or perhaps something like where the trail begins. This trail would be popular enough that after it was first established (“built” or “paved” or “dug”), it would be used frequently enough such that it wouldn’t soon be overgrown by the local vegetation. Please know
      that a human trail could include a road (paved or not).

      I believe that there is no human trail — as described above — within a mile of the TC.

      When FF said that someone “walked right past” or “went
      right past”, something, this does not necessarily mean they were very — or even relatively — close to the thing.
      They could have been miles away, and failed to take
      a correct turn or route that would have taken them much closer (i.e., within about 500 feet).

      From seeing your posted messages, I think you are a
      good person, and I don’t mind trying to steer you a little
      bit in the right direction toward a method of the kind of
      thinking that will help you in your poem-solving efforts.

      To that purpose, please don’t ignore any part of the poem.
      Don’t re-arrange or change ANY of the words. Anagrams
      aren’t involved. Counting words or letters won’t help.
      Even counting how many clues there are isn’t really
      important. Just solve the poem.

      Please think about when FF was born. It plays into the things he has thought about (not including the war, although that is certainly a major part of his decision where to hide the TC) . . . all relating to the correct solve.

      Good luck. Please don’t feel like you have to “follow the
      crowd” in the way they are failing at this search. Out-of-the-
      box thinking is the ticket to success. But not TOO far

      Numerology, numbers (in any way, shape, or form), non-English language(s), sophisticated scientific concepts, or exotic/uncommon knowledge won’t help at all.

      Show the poem to a bunch of children, one at a time, so they can each independently give you their thoughts on it
      . . . particularly regarding the first clue. Too many adults
      are getting it WAY wrong, which I find disappointing.

      Don’t make assumptions, such as thinking that FF always
      plays by all rules (such as laws!).

      Good luck to you, and please emphasize safety in the

  10. I never tire from hearing or reading Fenn’s stories. It is debatable whether they all contain hints or even have any Chase related value in terms of locating the treasure. I just find it very interesting that Fenn has remained involved and continues to play. That untiring determination to stay connected truly shows that he still has that little boy imagination and gets pleasure from the interaction. Some question his motives and seem to think there is foul play and others move forward and want to play the game with a light heart. This Chase is an opportunity that does not come along very often and certainly is unique. I admire how long he has kept this secret and how careful he has been with his words. Seven years of cat and mouse….pretty amazing when you really look at it !

    • You have that right Ken;

      What an amazing man. What an amazing challenge.
      What an amazing time we have all had, including Forrest.

      If it is found this search season, it will be bitter-sweet. Where will we all go from here if it is found? I hope that the spirit of the chase can somehow continue after it is found. JDA

      • I agree with you on keeping the spirit alive after the chest is found, JDA. Here’s what I was thinking if I end up being the finder:

        Right now, the IRS allows up to $14,000.00 to be given away as a gift tax-free. Now $14K isn’t anywhere close to the $1-3 million prize on the ff treasure, but I think would still be a pretty good incentive to keep the Chase moving on. If I find the chest (and assuming some governmental entity doesn’t confiscate the entire trove), I’d like to cash out $14K, place it inside a modern waterproof chest, and create my own poem and my own hiding spot. The finder of that treasure would not have to worry about selling off any ancient artifacts or gold, and would legally not even have to declare it to the IRS. Just $14K cash that one could walk away with and enjoy, no matter where it’s hidden! I think that would be pretty darn fun!

        • The only problem with that is…. what if in five thousand years your treasure is found paper money is not used anymore and is worthless, now on the other hand gold will always be sought after and just keep rising in value. You must look ahead and think about the what if’s.

          • I would think that 5,000 year-old paper money would be quite a valuable historical artifact if kept well-preserved. But I’d be more optimistic than Forrest and would hope that my cash-stash would be found by someone within a decade.

            I’d also like, in addition to the cash, to throw in some other interesting trinkets and as-yet-undefined-what-nots in my own chest to make it more interesting, but it wouldn’t be anything super valuable like gold or jewels. Maybe like a really nice, well-protected, bottle of scotch? I like the idea of the finder being able to have a celebratory toast on site! 🙂

      • Here’s the deal JDA, it’s going to be found this search season, and yes, bitter sweet. Looks like Trump will hook everyone up with a job, I’m sure people will use this site as they do like Facebook. The spirit of this chase was designed to never go away or forgotten, this is the main reason Forrest began the thrill of the chase, not just to get people out of the house but mainly for Forrest, the thoughts going through his mind after being told he had so much time left on this earth had to be very scary, to himself. I’m sure his first thoughts wasn’t to get people off the couch it most likely thinking did he leave a big enough in print on this earth that he’s never forgotten, scary thing to just be forgotten, but it happens. He achieved what he was looking for even after the chest is found, his spirit will live on and on.

        • You could well be right Thomas, but read the following by Forrest: “If I cannot enrich those with whom I interact each day and cause them to be better for my having passed their view, then I have wasted my turn. That I succeed in this endeavor is not as important as it is for me to make a solid try. For if the try is sincere I have succeeded in whatever failure resulted … So now, at least for me I know. And if no one should ever think of me when I have passed this vale, it will be of no consequence, for I have finally found my way and am at peace with it all.” f Forrest seems quite content with the “foot-print” that he has already left – He does not seem like an egotistical person at all. – to me at least. JDA

  11. Imagination by conjecture
    ( I > < K )
    Some time we as people can only describe things in first person.
    I saw a dog . I like that , I believe that , I will , I did , I can , I may ect….

    When we say something ,we seem to forget if it is based off others information
    the inference to reference ,then we believe we our selfs thought it.
    It is a re-gurtation of the facts. And those can get pretty wet.
    Like when Fenn said he was 79 or 80 , we can add to it all day long.
    But the truth here, is we all seem to need reassurance in our "solves "
    of the poem to see if we are in the right or wrong.
    Please allow me to share this from To Far , Too Walk –
    " I warned the path would be difficult for those with no certainty of where the location is , but sure of the one who did. "
    Allow me to share some truth , when we all started this, me 5 1/2 years ago ;
    None of us were certain about any thing , more so if Forrest Fenn didn't give any hints , my guess is we all would still be in the dark .
    To this my point is all of you are special , and each of your wisdom in the
    chase should be honored . The hunt requires difficulty ! No-one knew of the location and most have made the mistake aa I and tried to find a blaze first.
    Well , we are looking for some physical evidence to prove he was there and we are on the trail . But , Fenn only knows the trail, and said not to look fro the blaze first. Well Forrest , I never listen – so I did Imagine the blaze and tried to answer all your questions. To the best of my ability .
    Someone once told me to look at this in a new way , because they thought I had hit a wall . No on contrary I went through the wall as most would stop. I am hard headed though.lol
    This note is to encourage every one of you to remember when you were a
    child and how awesome this world is and was then . And remember the lil things that made you… well…, you . Then go into that closet of your and get your toys you hid. Because now you know how to play with them .
    Good luck to all who are in search of it.

      • No problem! I looked into the NatGeo website in a little more detail this morning and it looks pretty slick. Make sure you look at the 5-page PDF that it spits out to you at the end and not just the searchable map; there is a LOT of terrain information missing on the searchable map that only appears on the PDF.

        You’ll see a bunch of red flag symbols as you zoom in on the searchable map. Once you select one that looks to be in the area you want, click on the red flag symbol to jump to the 5-page PDF. The first page of the PDF will be a 100K scale showing how it is split into four 7.5 maps, and the following 4 pages of the PDF show those four 7.5 maps. It’s a pretty nice job the way they formatted this information. The only element that is a bit awkward is if your search area happens to be right on the border of two 100K scale regions, in which case you’ll have to do some hopping back and forth.

        I don’t know if anyone has any of those older National Geographic TOPO! CD-Rom’s that used to be sold at stores like REI several years ago (they are no longer being sold), but I have some of those and just compared the information on those CD’s to the information on the website and the information looks pretty much identical to me. My hat’s off to National Geographic for deciding to upload all this information to the internet for free!

  12. In Forrest’s Scrapbook Seventy Three


    he posts the question: “Who made the rule that says I shouldn’t end a sentence with a preposition?” This scrapbook is not the first place that Forrest has put forth this question. Perhaps we were not listening tightly the first time. The answer seems to be so important that he feels it is worth asking at least twice. Once in one of his memoirs…and again here on the blog.

    Like many of Forrest’s questions it is framed as a challenge, of sorts. Directly asking his dear readers to search for an answer..but why? It cannot be because Forrest does not know who is responsible for making his sentences outlaws. The answer is easily found by anyone with access to Google or a Carnegie Public Library.

    Perhaps the answer is a hint…or not…

    John Dryden is believed to be the first person to publicly posit that English sentences should not end in prepositions. Dryden created the prescription against “preposition stranding” in 1672 when he objected to a line in Ben Jonson’s 1611 poem which reads, “the bodies that those souls were frighted from”.

    Dryden was himself a poet and playwright and often stranded prepositions at the end of his own sentences…breaking his own rules…just like Forrest…

    Interestingly…there is a gold claim called the Dryden Mine


    just outside Yellowstone National Park, east of Gardiner, Montana.


    I certainly would not advocate that anyone go snooping around a registered mining claim without permission. That’s a very unclever way to get shot…

    But curious…none-the-less. If you’re inclined to look for hints in the scrapbooks…

    • Interesting angle, dal; I like it! Do you think that this area may be one of your trip focuses this season?

      As someone who typically tries to maintain good grammar, I share Forrest’s distaste for avoiding ending sentences with prepositions at all costs. It seems like a silly, arbitrary rule that often results in sentences that sound more odd than if they simply just ended in a preposition (like the Einstein quote that Forrest shared). I liked the effort that you put into tracking down the origins of this grammar rule and the background seems to confirm that it is indeed silly and arbitrary!

      • I just took another look at the poem and noted that “Begin it where warm waters halt, And take it in the canyon down” is essentially a “sentence” that ends in a preposition.

        I put sentence in quotes above because the manner in which Forrest punctuates this stanza is essentially a run-on sentence. Forrest should probably have placed a period or semicolon after “down” instead of a comma. This led to me looking at the punctuation in the poem in general. Forrest only includes one semicolon in the poem (after “nigh”), when it appears that he should have used a few additional semicolons after the words “down” (“Not far, but too far to walk” would only be a sentence fragment if separated from the previous 2 lines), “creek”, “gaze”, and “know”. Also, the comma after “meek” should be replaced with either a semicolon or a period, and the comma after “good” should either be replaced with a colon or a period.

        Of course, Forrest gets a pass on all of this because this is a poem, and when it comes to poetry one can break as many grammar rules as they darn well feel like it! 🙂

        • Blex you said ~’ I share Forrest’s distaste for avoiding ending sentences with prepositions at all costs.’
          I’m not sure that is what fenn meant by the question…“Who made the rule that says I shouldn’t end a sentence with a preposition?”

          Maybe the real question is; is the use of the word down meant as a preposition?
          There is subtle difference/changes in the meaning and usage of the word in the sentence if used as a verb or adjective… what is perplexing is how fenn designed the poem to be understood.
          As you said…when it comes to poetry one can break as many grammar rules as they darn well feel like it!
          This might be why fenn chose this avenue to present the clues… freedom of word meanings and usages, but not grammar correct. Not unlike straight forwards to straightforwards, and neither have to mean simple, but could mean in all honesty or true.

          You also mentioned the use of commas. In the lines; “Look quickly down , your quest to cease , But tarry scant with marvel gaze…” It seems to me that the use of those two commas separate “your quest to cease” as a second thought or action in the middle section of the sentence. The lines might read/be understood as… Look quickly down, But tarry scant with marvel gaze your quest to cease…IF we read it as an action needing to be applied to finalize the location of the chest. Not so much as, we simply look down at the chest.

          This reading of the poem could also imply that in stanza 2 the understanding of “Put in below the home of Brown” a stand alone sentence, might be saying… WWWH Canyon Down NFBTFTW making hoB, intentionally to be the possible first clue.

          If I said; we all sat under the covered porch of the house… we have a covered porch as a clue, a house as a clue, we/us [vague information] as a clue, but no location of where the house is… But if I said, put in below the water tower… wouldn’t that give the location of the house?

          Just thoughts of law breaking proper grammar.

          • Looks like you’re reading my mind, sir. Exactly how I saw that. Wonder why he didn’t recommend taking a pillow…just ramblings of a dottering mind. Got an autographed photo of Roy Rogers when I was a kid. I’ll bet he could find the treasure. 🙂

          • Or maybe put in below the home of Brown is just another way of saying where the mountains meet the flat lands, which would mean it’s not just one spot like a house that a Brown lived in but is referring that when you reach the point in the poem put in below the home of Brown, you need to turn onto a road that is just below where the mountains meet the flat lands and from there it’s no place for the meek.

          • Also good points, Seeker. If I remember my English classes correctly, I think the term for a phrase separated by commas as in: “Look quickly down , your quest to cease , But tarry scant with marvel gaze…” is called an “oppositive”

            I agree that it’s possible Forrest may be throwing out a clue regarding the prepositions, but my personal preference has been to generally take the scrapbook entries at face value. I do like how dal’s original post above put a spotlight on the punctuation of poem. There’s been a lot of talk about meanings of words in the poem, but I haven’t noticed much conversation specifically talking about the punctuation. Maybe there are additional secrets buried within?

          • IMO thomas,
            I don’t think the SB’s hold hints and clues [ they type that many think they do anyways], but they do have a type of informational point about them. I personally think fenn simply enjoys telling a story [ no matter the subject ] with details, written in a way, to make one think.

            My example is in part SB 124 [ if i recall the number correctly ].. And with the fish he took my picture, I mean, he took my picture with it. [ close enough for horseshoes ] The point is, how something can be worded incorrectly but can be deciphered what is meant.

            While I like the thought of hoB to mean mountains… I look at that as the big picture thought and home to mean habitation, or land bears inhabit [ an overall aspect of their habitat ]. But for that to be so, wwh and canyon down should be in the same overall big picture. A very large area… the mountain range.

            My problem now with this thought boils down to the first two clues… How can we explain away folks telling fenn where they had been and indicated the first couple clues [ maybe now as many as four ] and walked by the remaining seven and the chest?

            I just don’t see the reason for a vehicle or those types of transportation involved with the solve. But that’s just me.
            With that said, what i like about Dal’s post is how one can see what might be a very subtle hint and work with it to understand how the poem may read out.

            LOL, is out, a preposition? Proper grammar should read; and work with it to understand how the poem ‘might be’ read. But did you understand it? and could out, even thought not grammar correct, be needed if I was using it as part of a clue… for example.

            Are we reading this “poem” too straightforwards as literal, linear and grammar correct?

        • I don’t think it matters to him where he punctuates it’s just intertaning to him to see if anyone will bring it up and try to correct him. Here I’ll say the same thing. ” I don’t think it matters to him where he punctuates, it’s just intertaning to him to see if anyone will bring it up, and try to correct him”. Just like that my word where straight forward with or without punctuations, like Forrest I’ve never been very good at spelling or where I should punctuate and let me say when people read what I’ve wrote even when they know what I’m trying to say can be rude and try to make me feel dumb, mostly in front of others. Never what pass the ninth grade but I don’t look upon myself as a dummy, I’m very alert.

        • Right. Artistic license applies here. I think Forrest Fenn makes the cut for being an artist. Anyway, sentences should just end with a period.

          • touche’ JDA. See it’s these kinds of things that convince me I’m a spectator on the journe to the treasure. Kawabunga!

          • Raised in Texas, I thought I had heard them all. No. Wait. Yep, I’ve heard that one too but it’s a great illustration. Mind is wandering again…wonder if FF ever went to or through La Grange as a teen…it was right up there with Grqpette.

    • Awesome write up, Dal. I’ve been known to shout out ‘double negative’ when I see one and I saw one.

    • Dal,
      But curious…none-the-less. If you’re inclined to look for hints in the scrapbooks…

      I do believe there are hints in the SB`s…but not in all of them.

      I especially like this one…but not for the reason of grammer.

    • Dal, I appreciate the fact that you share what is on your mind with the rest of us in a thought provoking and challenging manner. Learning something every day!

    • i spent months on the prepositions. i found something with them that could not be real, and spent the next 2 years completing this theory, based on that initial preposition finding. It took me to yellowstone, even though i was a NM searcher… i could not ignore everything. It took everything i had to get there- driving straight there, and driving straight home. 24 hr drives. and my search was a bust- different story. i was so disappointed- not that i didn’t find it, but that i couldn’t even cross it off my list. 2 years of solving, research and maps and reading things different ways, maybe even a little confirmation bias. i still believe in this theory, but i can’t get back there this year. I am trying to get to NM one last time with my sister this summer…

      thanks for reading that, if you did. but i’m almost ready to give this theory to someone who is going there. i’m not saying it’s right, but it’s possible some of it is- and possible none of it is. i’ll give it to someone who is open, won’t refute it, just take it as it is, slightly adjust, and just go check it out. – and also, i buried a time capsule 20 years ago somewhere behind the Lake Hotel employee dorms… maybe find that for me too?

      • Hi Leigh

        I have responded to you before, I follow your blogs and know your general area in Yellowstone area….I would like to communicate off-line with you. If you recall I had an old boss in Phoenix with same name and she was such a great human…sorry it wasn’t you!

        I am going there in the next month or two depending on snow and weather. Looks like from the webcams things look pretty good already. I have been out three times last year and have a specific spot but if yours is different I’m happy to look for you. Please send me an email or post yours…mine J O N C A L 1964 at yahoo. Maybe this is the year.

        • yahoo? ok, stranger. i’ll start composing a very long email- i’ll lay the whole thing out with pictures, and a couple of links. look for it maybe friday or saturday.

      • Hi Leigh

        I have responded to you before, I follow your blogs and know your general area in Yellowstone area….I would like to communicate off-line with you. If you recall I had an old boss in Phoenix with same name and she was such a great human…sorry it wasn’t you!

        I am going there in the next month or two depending on snow and weather. Looks like from the webcams things look pretty good already. I have been out three times last year and have a specific spot but if yours is different I’m happy to look for you. Please send me an email or post yours…mine is : J O N C A L 1964 at yahoo. Maybe this is the year.

  13. Had to vent JDA & felt better after until someone states again there is little chance of them not finding the treasure.

        • I assure you I know that my world is in fact reality Jake. I just wanted to make sure that you know that I I have nullified out bet JDA

          • Thanks JDA,
            It’s smart for both of us to nullify the 2K bet between us.

            Nothing good can come from it either way.
            Besides, I wouldn’t take money from you, maybe lunch but not money, especially that much.

  14. Oh… the giddy feelings of an early spring search filled with wishful anticipation. Oh…the empty realization that the dream was not real.
    The long ride home…wait…what?

  15. Just thought I’d checK in and appears some newbies are stirring the pot. IMHO. Really enjoy reading all the different discussions. looking forward to making my first trip to my search area this May. Will continue to check in occasionally on you guys.

  16. Freshly freed from “moderation”…This new post at MW 3/22/17…

    Here is the update that I have been hoping to see.

    Forrest may not feel like there is a comfortable way to update his, “within 500 feet,” and, “within 200 feet,” comments (which are rather dated) but he is a very, very creative and deep thinking man.

    So he says, “I think the gold -will again- become alert to the tromp and -vibrations- of hiking boots.” says it all.

    Thank you Forrest!
    Thank you Jenny for hosting this update (and -possibly- writing the question)!

    Can’t wait to go trout fishing. Do they bite when the water is warm? How about very, very warm?

  17. “I think the gold -will again- become alert to the tromp and -vibrations- of hiking boots.” says it all.

    Doesn`t this statement contradict the…not in close proximity…comment?

    • You ask a question with a reference to an incomplete quote without context or reference to where we can see it for ourselves.

      And so the answer is– maybe.

    • After years of working beside my grandpa, being able to “think like him” comes pretty naturally. Just like my grandpa on super-creative steroids. Best wishes to you, Jake.

  18. Maybe I was just over-thinking Forrest’s statement about making (2) round-trips from his car in one afternoon. In my mind I was thinking how the distance from his car could have been as far as 4 or 5 miles. But that’s too far for him (or anyone) to walk in one afternoon. 16-20 miles is WAY too far to walk, right? Well, not if he went from his car and then over to a horse or ATV. Then that distance would be very doable.
    But then I realized that line-of-thought is comparable to an oxymoron or Catch-22. Sure, he could have done it that way. But if he did do it that way, then why would he have to make 2 round-trips? The answer is simple. He made 2 round-trips from his car in one afternoon on foot. And with that, a likely distance of no more that 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile each way was feasible.
    2-3 miles total walking distance in one afternoon I believe is the maximum distance he could or would have went. Just for food for thought for anyone else who may have been thinking along those same lines.
    All this is obviously IMO.

  19. The trove has been in hibernation for seven years, it’s about to be awaken once again, the only tromps and vibrations that the trove has felt were that of Mr Fenn’s the day he put it in there. ” Yes the gold will again become alert to the tromps and vibrations of hiking boots .” No one has been closer than 200′, but soon will be, and Mr Fenn knows this.

  20. Can’t you just give JDA, Sparrow, myself and a few thousand more eternal optimists chasing around in the frozen wilderness a few days to enjoy our good, “vibrations?”

  21. Dear Fennexperts (my name for all of you who know all things Fenn), Here is a challenge question. Why breed(s) of dog was Skippy? When did he depart this earth? How many years did ff have him to share the bonds of love and friendship? Where did he get Skippy? Where was he buried? The time clock is running…

    • So, I asked the above questions out of the fear that I accidentally found Skippy. I thought that by knowing the answer to these questions, it would “put my fears to rest.”
      Any info out there???

      • Egg on the face has no taste but feels terrible none the less. Without the books, how would I know that Skippy did not have a tail. Glad to know that the bones that I found were -neither-

  22. I have been pondering the way Mr Fenn spells knowledge. He spells it knowlege, which I assume is a clue. What if we split up the word and make it know lege. So what do we know lege is?
    It can be an awe inspiring person.
    It can be several places in France.
    To allege or assert.
    But my favourite is a quote from Moby Dick.
    Ex lege naturae jure meritoque. Which translates to:
    Out of the law of nature by right and merit. The translation isnt a clue but the fact it is in the book is.
    This fits with one of my solves nicely. Ask yourself why Mr Fenn had his book signing in the MOBY DICKens book store.
    Did I read correctly somewhere that while signing books he asked people where their warm waters halt was?

    • I don’t think Forrest spells knowledge without a D every time. I think he was making a point within the context of the phrase on the buried jar or bell.

  23. Regarding FFs latest post at MW:

    Will someone kindly post Forrest’s exact quote saying he hid the treasure Chest at least 8.25 miles north of the “northern border of the city of Santa Fe.”???????

    Just for everyone’s reference. PLEASE!….I can’t find Forrest stating north of Santa Fe’s north boundary.

  24. “Put in.”

    I was raised in Texas, as Forrest was a few decamiles north, and water was rare and precious. The creek was a destination. A water body that could support a watercraft was special, and getting a watercraft into the water was a challenge. “Put in” was a place to find.

    But in John Coulter’s day, the river was the road, and “put in” was just the opposite. It was where you could safely land your watercraft in a place that promised resources.

    so. Does “put in” mean get into the stream, or get out of the stream?

    that is a question

    • Running rivers today, you can put in at a take out, and/or take out at a put in.

      Take in and put out, however, are horses of entirely other colors.


    • Since the poem tells you to “Take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk.” I “Assume” that put in means to get out of the water. Just my opinion. JDA

      • I read it the other way, JDA (though I see the sense in yours).

        IMO, because it’s “too far”, putting into the river below the HoB saves distance and effort.

        It draws a map, and then suggests a route (f’r’ex: “It’s about 20 miles of bad road from there, so your best bet is to skip it and put in at this spot down here.”)


    • FWIW – as a deer hunter here in the North lands, to “put in” when walking means to get off the trail or road you are on – to go into the forest. In my opinion, that’s what is being talked about in the poem. I think the canyon and water allusions/inferences are in the poem to help you get your bearings in the right area of the wood to “put in”.

    • Joseph – it’s my simple understanding that ‘put in’ means both putting in to land from a boat, or putting in to water from land.

      ..i could be wrong though, but that’s extremely unlikely given that i’m always right about everything 🙂

  25. I’m finding the hardest part of this whole thing to be the period of time between a confident (reasonably so, at least) solve and BOTG.

    Dal, assuming someone finds it before me and further assuming that you will be involved in some fashion with the reveal, can you try to allow a week or so between confirmation of it being found and the full reveal of the solve (assuming there will be a full reveal)?

    If someone beats me to it, I’d like to at least have the satisfaction/bragging rights of posting my solve prior to it being openly revealed.

    I was looking at zoomearth today and there are fresh tire tracks near the parking area for my solve.

  26. With all the talk under WWWH about being buried or out in the open I would like to throw out my two cents worth. IMO definitely not buried on in a body of water. “Brave and in the Wood” relates to the toys are forever in TFTW book. First chapter- does that make it important to be first?? only ff knows. If hidden under a juniper bush it would be well hidden to a passer buy on a Sunday outing, but would be found if you knew where to look. Under a ledge or overhang is a possibility that I am considering as well as a crevasse that someone mentioned earlier (WWWH). How about in a hole behind a rock??? that would be a good way to hid it as well.
    I just wish that someone would find it real soon– a “I told you it was REAL” for my wife and for me to get on with my life.
    If I’m lucky we might make a road trip this summer with a side jog of “treasure hunting”.
    Good luck to all… Be sure to carry your bear spay and don’t go around sticking you hands in places where you can’t see.
    Imagination is important to finding Indulgence, but you might not make it back home without a good dose of common sense.

  27. Why do painters paint, or writers write?

    “The faintest ink is better than the best memory.” – Old Chinese Proverb

    Would make a great slogan for a tattoo parlor too 🙂

  28. A new feature on Google Maps…

    You can now play PacMan, yes that’s right… PacMan.

    Next to the Map/Photo toggle button is a new PacMan button. A nice little diversion! -:)

    • Even if true, can you please explain what the heck this has to do with the search and why we must all waste our time with such a nonsensical post?

  29. The Albuquerque Film and Music Experience (AFME) is occurring at the same time as Fennboree this year AND they are screening Matt Maisano’s film called Fenn’s Searchers. Those of you at Fennboree last year may remember Matt’s crew who were filming and participating.

    The film will be shown at 5pm on June 8th…the evening before Fennboree gets underway.

    If you’d like to find out more or buy tickets…click on the link below:

    If you’d like to watch the film’s trailer click on this link:

  30. Hi Dal,
    I’m new to the search but have thoroughly enjoyed your many exploits. Because you have not only shared your experiences with everyone but have done it with such finis, I wish to thank you and hope to see more. Since you have a huge head start on everyone else it is a very good possibility that you will find the TC before anyone. On the other hand if someone miraculously were to find it before you, I would ask this; What one item from the chest (not the bracelet) would you wish to be sent to you to remind you of the Chase? Please post this so your fans, and there are many, may see this in case they happen upon the TC before you.
    Michael De

    • MD,

      I think that’s a great and very appropriate question. Dal deserves a “piece of the action” considering all of his hard work and putting up with some of the dumb questions I ask him off line.

      Dal, on kind of a related note, I would like to suggest You consider a different topic for discussion on the blog. That being, what question would you ask Forrest AFTER the chest is found?

      Example, on the inside covers of TTOTC, there are photos of an F-100 having to do with a “minor accident” dated 22 Oct 1958. Can you please explain where/what happened and why you decided to include it in the book since that date precedes your Vietnam tour, Gernmany perhaps?

      Or, please explain why several of the date stamp dates and the related day of the week in TTOTC conflict with each other.

  31. on february 4th, 2017 in 6 questions on Jennys site, f is asked

    1Q) Even today, after more than six years of people searching, and after all the news coverage, articles, and stories written about your secreted treasure, some people are just learning about your Thrill of the Chase treasure hunt and getting involved. It continues to inspire. Do you have any advice for these new people? How should they begin the search six years after so many others? Do you feel they are at any disadvantage?

    he answers: “No, fresh eyes and new thinking might provoke a winning idea. I would advise new searchers to look for the clues in my poem and try to marry them to a place on a map. It seems like the longer one thinks about the search the more they complicate the problem.”

    Definition of problem
    1 a : a question raised for inquiry, consideration, or solution
    b : a proposition in mathematics or physics stating something to be done

    2 a : an intricate unsettled question
    b : a source of perplexity, distress, or vexation
    c : difficulty in understanding or accepting I have a problem with your saying that

  32. Imagination isn’t a technique, it’s a key. There in lies the problem. When a person relies upon their imagination, it can run amok… causing actual truth to be distorted with desired truth. This has more than likely happened with me and my desire to finish the Chase. And without an exogenous anchor to keep my thinking grounded with what is real or what is imagined, I feel my intellect has come as far as it can in this endeavor. But that does not mean that I cannot help bring it to a close.

    I believe that I have come up with valuable information concerning my last trip out west, and without a solid reason to keep searching, I seek to share everything I know, with you all. It is my hope that something within this mind of mine may be of use to a few of you, and possibly help one person finish this and return Forrest’s bracelet back to him. I may have to sacrifice my mother’s legacy to protect his, but every person must do what they feel is “right” in their soul.

    It will take about a week or two to write it all up. If you thought the Trouble With Confidence was long…

    What to expect?
    I’ll be attempting to explain the Little girl in India, The Omniscient Guru’s success, the nine clues (or the majority of them), the unintended clue in TFTW, the dead person keeping a secret, Forrest’s environmentalist friend’s Ranch near Santa Fe, and how all of it links perfectly to ONE SPOT. Oh! and I almost forgot to mention the circled “X”!

    To be fair I will post it on all three blogs (if I can figure out all the html coding for picture embeds). I also promise no dog measurements this time 😉 Feel free to laugh at or insult my thinking when you finally read it… it won’t hurt my ego 😛 stay tuned…

    • Iron Will,

      I will soon be heading out on my first real search having only started this thing last August, but even though I have high confidence in my solution, as you apparently did, I’d be foolish to think I’ll come home with the prize. Perhaps some will ridicule me for not thinking positive; complete my mission at all costs. I’d rather be disappointed and learn from my experience, than give up. That’s not in my genes!

      We are not quitters. Forrest didn’t “raise” (teach) us that way. I guess what I’m saying is think about it for awhile before publishing all your hard work. You might regret it and I’m sure none of us would want to see that happen. You’ve given so much.

      That said, if you decide to do just that, then I, like I’m sure, the rest of Dal’s and Goofy’s community, will accept your thesis and then dissect it as if undergoing a postmortem, not because we relish in your disappointment, but because we truly are interested in your thoughts, your logic, and what you may have learned.

      Again, please think long and hard BEFORE publishing your solve. PLEASE DO NOT GIVE UP. You do owe it to yourself.

      Respectfully…….. pinatubocharlie

      • Thanks for the kind words, but those reasons are no longer mine to decide. Fate will have to intervene, and I just don’t think that’s going to happen.


      • Pinatubocharlie,

        I wish you good luck in your search. There are many reasons searchers quit the chase, financial reasons, promises made, what’d to try something different and now it’s time to move on. Some have never even traveled out to look but have only want to help others in their quest. Iron Will has had many thoughts and ideas on where this poem take us and have respected his thoughts.so I just want to say …

        Iron Will if you have come to the point you feel it time to through in your gloves, I can respect that. I for one knows it’s hard to quit, but it doesn’t mean you can’t still participate. Save your solve and maybe throw out pieces as time goes on. Maybe even over time other things might click to aid you in your solution.
        Again there are those who have reasons to stop and us as fellow searchers must respect that and let them do what they feel is right on how they want to leave. Good luck to you Iron Will no matter what direction you choose. Bur

          • No biggie. I understood what you’re trying to say. If I were FF, saying all this would be monumental…but I’m not. I’m just one of 100’s of thousands of searchers who thinks his/her information is important. But without results, it’s just the imaginings of an alternate reality. A person can only get out of that reality by “releasing” it. However if you remain there too long, you will become somewhat insane(in a cognitive reasoning way). I’ve seen it beginning in the looks of co-workers and family. The pity they project. I have to stop my reputation from worsening in their eyes, and this is the only way I know to halt it. It will all end up as it was meant to. After all… it’s Easter 😉

        • Thank you much Bur.

          To quote Lee Trevino, a great professional golfer; “The more I practice, the luckier I get.” He said that after holing out an almost impossible shot back in the 80s if memory serves, but I may be wrong.

          It’s hard to beat that quote, except I have learned the more I research and follow leads, the more I find.

          And good “luck” to all searchers out there this year.

    • I’m surprised you would divulge your solve after one campaign Iron Will. It seems that tenacity will win out in this challenge as Forrest intended. No winning solve will be had in one attempt or one campaign. Only reveal your solve it you know for well it is wrong. In my humble opinion of course good sir.

      • Maybe it’s the nature of my solve, but I don’t see myself going back to the same spot if my first search of it turns up empty. Tbh, I don’t know if I’ll take another search trip anywhere.

        For me, it’s a bucket list thing – hunt for the treasure. The finding of it would just be a bonus.

        And none of my solve is anything that hasn’t been discussed in pieces and parts in various places… So why not post it if my specific location is a dud in my mind (post-race)?

    • IW,
      Isn’t Cynthia in your search state? Maybe you two (or someone else) could come to an agreement and she be your search partner if she isn’t looking in your area and likes your solution. There is the page for looking for a partner. Just thinking of a way for you to stay in the Chase. Forest said to never give up, never give up, never give up.

      • Hang in there I.W. If you got that much solved you might just need to fine tune a little.have you ever seen the picture of the stork and the frog ,the stork has the frog in his mouth and ready to swallow but the frog has the stork by the neck.Don’t give up !!! Don’t ever give up !! Step back use that imgenation that Mr Fenn awaken in us all!! Like you I thought of just putting all the cards on the table too and let the chips fall where they may but no no no I am not given up no way.

    • You write up a good teaser-trailer, IW! I’m looking forward to reading your solve when it’s ready for posting! 🙂

    • Hey IW, just wanted to say I think you have an awesome attitude. Whoever finds this thing will have made their share of mistakes and I hope they will own them just like you are doing. But it takes even more character to step up and eat that humble pie with a smile and pie filling running down your face. Whether or not you continue on I just wanted to say, good form my friend, good form. But why do I feel you are the type of guy that will be right back up on that horse sooner rather than later?

  33. Iron will, Would it be a better choice to discuss your solution with Dal before sending it out to thousands of searchers? If the solution you have reached is a logical choice, wouldn’t a large group descend upon the location and possibly start an confrontation that might get ugly. Once again I refer to man’s nature to want what another has. Be wise as you move forward with your decision since many are reading your blogs.

    • Well Michael the same could be said about my Trouble With Confidence write up. People thought the same thing… and they did descend upon that location. No one died, and that piece of earth is still there. 😛

      • IW, It sounds like you’ve been at this a long time. Me not so long so I have the perspective of a new searcher. We all have within ourselves a level of tolerance for all things. When that ends we must move on to something new. I hope you can find a partner to trust so that you can complete this phase of your life and move on to some new challenge. The very best of luck in what ever you decide. Look forward to your circled X if that happens to be your final decision.

      • IW,

        I have read many post-search accounts and was curious to read Trouble with Confidence and have a few comments below, but I did not read any comments by other searchers so there may a little duplication. And I am in no way trying to rub salt into an open wound. So I hope you accept this as constructive criticism.

        Compared to you I am a newbie to the Chase and because of my familiarity with Yellowstone I decided it would be my area of focus. Shortly after starting the Queen Elizabeth gold coin immediately caught my attention. I’ve hiked there in the past and after several hours of fitting clues to that location, I asked myself, why would he want his bones here? There’s nothing special about it at all, though it is pretty. There are hundreds of places more beautiful than Queens Laundry in Yellowstone and more easily accessible to a guy 79-80 years old.

        That’s a question I continue to ask myself for every new location I begin to research.

        So if you do publish your latest solve, I’d be curious to read about any lessons learned from these two searches, though I suspect you may have been out more than that.

        But don’t be too hard on yourself and take your time.

    • Yes I did Clint. However, perhaps I am both the Stork AND the frog. The stork being the false reality of my imaginings of everything in the Chase, and the frog is what’s left of logic and reality, grasping for any possible reason to keep from being lost to the stork’s insanity.
      Everything is relative to the way we choose to see it, and in the Chase… that’s the biggest problem.

  34. The Chase can be many things but if you’re not having fun you should probably go do something else. I know some people are hardcore and they’re not out there to have ‘fun’ but the minute you no longer enjoy what you’re doing it’s time to take a break.

  35. pdenver,

    Thank you for sharing the beauty, my friend.

    One can read the poetry that has been written within the depths of her art.

  36. Here’s my fortune cookie that I got today:

    Unfortunately it didn’t say I will find it. LOL
    Anyway its very true. It would have been found by now if it were hidden where it is “EXPECTED”! Keep your thoughts and eyes open when you put BOTG.
    Honest good luck to all, May it be found this summer.

  37. A TTOTC exercise for searchers: Draw a line from Santa Fe NM Northward toward the top of central Montana where the last mountain above 5000 feet is located. What is the name of that mountain? While I don’t believe that this mountain is the actual HOB I do believe that FF is aware of it and would like to see people off their couches and exploring these areas while they are still available to us. Now follow the line southward. What places above 5000 feet and below 10200 feet are named on that line as well as mentioned in FF’s life travels?

  38. The end is ever drawing nigh……….
    I don’t think Forrest ever said the back end, as most assume. Perhaps, the (front) end is ever drawing nigh…..
    Food for thought.
    Good luck, all.

  39. This was originally posted today by Anthony on “Be Careful Out There”. I copied it to here because I think it’s very good information and this is a place where it is more likely to be read…


    Beware its spring turkey season in all the states for the treasure hunt. Here’s the hunting dates for each state.
    New Mexico Apr-15 through may-10
    Colorado Apr-9 through may-22
    Montana Apr-9 through may-15
    Wyoming Apr-1 through May-20
    When a turkey hunt is going on the hunters wear camouflage and won’t have any bright colors on and when there set up while calling a turkey in they will have a camouflage mask on. A turkeys eye site is real good and they can see brite colors that why the mask and also the hunter will be real still and will be hard to notice.

    Stay safe, be prepared, let others know where your going and be aware of what’s around you at all times. Good luck.

    • Dal,
      What happened to that self- described ‘grammar Nazi’ ?

      I can understand how smartphones are always butchering our mutterings, but “turkeys eye site”, maybe it would behoove the turkey to get online & check the hunting webSITES

      I sorta know the difference between the usages of; their, there, and they’re…my excuse (typo’s) is I never learned how to type.
      As you mentioned of late, I hope you do, finally have WWWH pinned down, 6.5 yrs is a long time for an undergrad… goes without saying, if in fact you are correct, it’d be wise to keep it to yourself

  40. I didn’t really look this up but I heard that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. If your method of searching isnt working, do something different … or risk going insane.

  41. I have looked up the definition of insanity in many many different dictionaries. So far it seems they have the same definition. I’m going to keep trying though and see if maybe one of the obscure ones has something a bit different.

  42. Has anyone given any thought to the possibility that there just might be more than gold and jewels in the chest? A deed maybe? Some rights connected to San Lazaro Pueblo perhaps? Go ahead get your thesaurus out. Make my day. Is the Chase a vehicle for finding a person with raw problem solving talent required for the archeology of that site? Ponder that.

    Title => Deed

    • What you are proposing lacks logic my friend. It Forrest’s intent was to try to come up with someone with the problem-solving skills necessary to solve a problem at San Lazaro, why would Forrest sell San Lazaro half way through the chase? As Spock would say, “Not logical captain, it is not logical”. JDA

      • JD,
        What is going on with your user name? [all the sudden you have added an s]

        Is it like a notch, or tally system…every time you come back from a search you’re going to tack-on another?
        Just messing with you/ curious if you were going to put your email out there again (has it changed?), in case at some point I want to get in touch

    • What of Forrest’s comments – paraphrasing – I’m thinking 100 or even 1,000 years down the road. – Sorry it just doesn’t hold water my friend. JDA

          • I am not privy to the specifics. But I do know f said “we” have the thief at SLP on camera. That suggests he has maintained some connection even after selling the property. The only way I see this being resolved is for someone to open the chest and find out for themselves.

          • I’ll have to go back and find the statement. I don’t recall it pertaining to San Lazaro Pueblo. The “we” could be a partner, but I understood it to be something different.

  43. Iron Will, may I politely suggest that you consider “taking a temporary break”
    from this chase, while maintaining the option to get back into it if/when the
    time to do so seems right?

    Good luck with everything in your life, and thank you for all your postings,
    writings, etc.

    P.S. I honestly believe the TC will be found this summer (2017).

    • Thank you for your thoughts, I am taking a very long “break” from the chase. But that doesn’t mean I cannot put everything I’ve learned out there to possibly help someone out. 🙂

      • IW,

        I, for one, am looking forward to learning about your recent adventures. I think we share a similar search area, and even if our search areas are not the same, there is always something to be learned from an unfinished ‘solve’.

        As I am a relative newbie to the search, you are one of many superstars in this arena.

        Best regards,


  44. I just got back from a work trip to Virginia and I’d been carrying my copy of The Thrill of the Chase in my luggage. When I opened it just now I found this tucked inside the cover:


    They were snooping for clues! They could have left it anywhere, but I found it neatly tucked inside like a bookmark 🙂

      • That was my thinking, too. They could have left it on top of my stuff, or on the side or something. Inside the book was a little invasive. Maybe it was someone who’s heard of Fenn and was curious.

    • Lol Jeremy… I never put my book in my checked luggage you never know who might be looking in it and what if it got lost !!! I keep it in my carryon so I can read it above the clouds while I try to cover up cities with my thumb. lol. On my Flight today I was in seat 9F!!!!! 🙂

    • WOW! That’s crazy!

      “Raiders of the Lost Ark” has the Nazis,
      “Goonies” has the Fratellis,
      “DuckTales” has the Beagle Boys,
      and The Chase has the T.S.A.

        • Dal – when you say ‘scenic’ do you mean ‘oh that’s a lovely Australian geographical mountain range’?

          ..or do you mean ‘oh that’s a lovely highly venomous snake slithering towards me rather too rapidly’?

          • I think everything in Australia is trying to kill people also. New Zealand is next on my list for international travel! I don’t believe their steaks there, right? LOL

          • yes Heidini, we are all strict vegetarians over here – so it might pay to bring your own steaks when you visit

            & no, we don’t have snakes here – they were all eaten by the many large feral dragons which roam free, so don’t worry
            (are you a fast runner? 🙂 )

        • Finding the treasure dream- go to New Zealand and rent a little motor home and sleep on a beach and wake up to baby penguins!

          • Uh, isn’t that kinda how “the Walrus & the Carpenter” starts?

            Poor baby penguins . . . .

          • Super neat that you mentioned it but totally unintentional on my behalf. One of my friends woke to penguins on a similar trip. I just wanted to repeat their trip. It’s interesting that it goes back to Alice in Wonderland.

  45. Some have said those with the clues in stanza’s 2 – 3 & 4 are wasting the rest of the poem as filler.

    I see the clues as specific places and detailed things at places that if followed in a path you could drive, swim, wade or walk. You may have to walk to see heavy loads, water high & the blaze.

    The clues I see in stanza’s 2 – 3 & 4 are more detailed smaller areas, way points and/or paths to get you closer & eventually the blaze.

    I see many hints in the other stanza’s but are not small specific areas but are there to help you with the clues just like the hints in his books.

    1st stanza:
    “my treasures” = MT = Montana, where the treasure is – The Treasure State.

    “my secret where”
    “where” is also used right after “Begin it” & only there.
    “secret” That’s what this is all about including the poem & his bathing spot & only he knows except for his spot in the Firehole near Ojo which is no secret now & he did go alone in there.

    What are the letters to the right & left of “secret” in the poem?
    Now you know where to begin & finish.

    Am I just filling a whole in my mind?
    Doesn’t seem like filler to me.

    I’ve got many other hints in all the stanza’s but just don’t cut it for leading you to the treasure.

  46. Two weeks to graduation.
    The Top Gun Trophy is still up for grabs. The score is tied. Time for the big one.

    Are you up for this Maverick?

    Just a walk in the park.

    • your “software” has a major glitch in it…and the graduation date has yet to be determined. There is a basic game called Ace of Aces you may want to freshen up on before calling out any real players…

      • Actually, not to brag, but I have at times developed software with zero defects. It’s what war fighters deserve. Now …

        the plaque for the alternates is down in the basement. And there are no points for second place. Best of luck.

  47. I just wanted to mention that I did finally start reading “The Catcher in the Rye” by J.D. Salinger again this afternoon, at Forrest’s endorsement (in his book TTOTC).

    I said this before somewhere else on this blog, but when I last read this book, it was required reading in high school and I absolutely HATED it. I think the reasons behind this opinion were mainly: 1.) I was being forced to read something for a class, and 2.) I was already surrounded by a surplus of annoying, angsty teenagers and did not need to read about more of that stuff.

    I just wanted to mention a few things about this book so far. First, I am finding it an enjoyable read now in my more mature mindset (:P). Second, this book reads quite quickly! Seriously, I got a third of the way through the book in just a couple of hours; I guess I may finish it this weekend. It’s a short book, but I think Salinger’s conversational/stream-of-consciousness writing style also just sort of flows. And thirdly, heck if I don’t recognize Forrest’s writing style from TTOTC pulled directly from this book. I think Forrest liked this book so much that he modeled his own writing style on Salinger. Look at the end of 3rd-to-last paragraph in chapter 10 (page 84 in my version of the book) and tell me that that does not evoke Forrest’s writing style to you!

    Anyways, just wanted to throw that out here that I gave a book I previously hated a second chance and ended up liking it. I hope Forrest can at least give Gatsby a second chance as well. If he keeps his expectations low enough, maybe he’ll like it on a second go! 😉

    • Got about 2/3’s of the way through “Catcher in the Rye” this morning and it’s a hoot! I’m still enjoying it quite a lot. What’s more, at the end of Chapter 18 on page 156, Holden goes off on one of his tangents specifically talking about “A Farewell to Arms” and “The Great Gatsby” almost exactly mirroring Forrest’s “Fine Literature” chapter in TTOTC (although Holden says that he likes “The Great Gatsby”). I mean, I knew that Forrest liked Salinger’s book a lot, but did not realize the level of influence it had on him. It’s adds a whole extra layer of interest in reading this novel for me!

        • Just finished reading the book this afternoon while resting my legs after a very nice (non-treasure-hunt-related) hike up in the foothills. I give it a final score of 2 out of 2 thumbs up! Thanks again for the recommendation and inspiring me to read this old classic again, Forrest! 🙂

  48. A VR documentary producer would like to go out with a searcher tomorrow in NM. If anyone would like to take a professional cameraman with them please let me know ASAP dalatlummifilmdotcom
    I’ll put you in touch with the guy..
    Only if you are going out Sunday 4/23 and only in NM…

    Sorry for the late request…

  49. Can I assume that by now all searchers know that Ojo Caliente is Spanish for “warm eye”?

    I => Eye => Ojo
    Warm => Caliente

    And there’s one in NM and another in WY? I thought so.

    • i like your angle Iceman, one which i wasn’t personally aware of. but take care when separating foreign phrases, as they can often mean something entirely different as individual words.

      ..and don’t worry about Fennatical, he’s just grumpy coz his bicycle is old and squeaky 🙂

      • Ojo Spanish superstition ~ Belief in the evil eye, or mal de ojo, is a culture bound syndrome in traditional Mexican and Central American culture. According to the superstition, this illness results from the perception that some people possess innate strength, the power to harm those without this advantage.

        ~In Latin American culture, “mal de ojo” is caused when one looks at another with envy and it is believed to inflict injury or bad luck. Mothers are especially wary of evil eye and protect their infants by having them wear bracelets, like this red-beaded one from El Salvador.

        Your right CH, ~”…foreign phrases, as they can often mean something entirely different as individual words.”

        “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, **Latin**, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f”

      • Seeker

        please reframe from (pre-maturely) dancing around a camp-fire whilst fanatically waving a plucked squawking chicken about the local area, willy-nilly
        ( ..i mean, you might accidentally take someones eye out or something.. )

        fact still remains that, to the best of Hobbit Kingdom GMT (which is globally legit btw ..sorta like Pay-Pal)
        ..no-ones found it yet, right?

        so,, until that magic moment happens, ya all fair game for teasing i reckon – firm but fair

        (apart from Focused – he’s Cool for Cats in my book 🙂 )

        • ( ..which only cost him a small daily fee of $3.50 btw – incl t-shirt & bumper-sticker 🙂 )

          ..just sayin’

        • Can’t dance around the campfire?? Well, ok, those are wise words… one should never play near fire…
          Safety first, right?
          salutem primum

        • Hobs-
          That’s just funny. I laughed so hard and every time I think of that the image you painted with words It takes me back there again … a full size wild chicken flinging wind up toy … No need for batteries … just post an idea on TTOTC and see it spin into a frenzy. Priceless.

    • In Northern New Mexico parlance, ojo also commonly refers to a spring. As in water coming up out of the ground…not the season.

    • While your literal translation is correct, it requires context. In this context, Ojo Caliente translates to “hot spring.” And, although “caliente” as an adjective could be used for either “warm” or “hot,” most traditional Spanish speakers use either “calido” or “tibio” for “warm.” The hot spring drains into the Rio Ojo Caliente, and thence into the Rio Chama, either at which confluence, I suppose, warm waters could possibly halt.


      • Toby..I’m not sure what you mean by a literal translation but if you look at a map of New Mexico, you will see many springs referred to as “Ojo” with a proper name following. “Ojo” becomes a geographical and topographic description. But, the word ojo can be both literal and poetic, based on context, and we might have a bit of fun with word play. Eye -> I-> ojo ->aye. Ojos that eye have encountered are mostly cold springs . In my solve, its all about the eyes.

      • Toby..I’m not sure what you mean by a literal translation but if you look at a map of New Mexico, you will see many springs referred to as “Ojo” with a proper name following. “Ojo” becomes a geographical and topographic description. But, the word ojo can be both literal and poetic, based on context, and we might have a bit of fun with word play. Eye -> I-> ojo ->aye. Ojos that eye have encountered are mostly cold springs . In my solve, its all about the eyes.

  50. The little Girl from India for me has turned out to be a very important tool/clue if one would look into it a little further…I think that it’s probably the biggest clue that Fenn has laid out there for us. And, it means exactly what it says…. And further more, it’s certainly a good test to see whether your solve makes any sense or not.

    • The Little Girl IN India. I also believe I know exactly what it means, as it correlates to a spot on the map. That’s part of what I’ll share with you all about my last trip and the information I’ve put together. It’s gonna be about 3 weeks though. I’m doing a video instead of a write up so it’s easier to just put the links on the three main blog sites. I’m working the next 8 days 12 hr shifts so I’m too tired to make it at the moment. But I think it will be “eye opening” to possibly fresh ways of thinking about everything. I’ll even share four spots ON SITE that I should’ve checked, but didn’t (because of the flu and being sick) that may help anyone out who’s close by and want to investigate. I’m too poor to fly back out there so, this is my only other option of helping to bring about a conclusion 😛 Stay tuned about Mid May.

    • This is really nice, SL. Since beginning the Chase, I began wondering what things I may have missed before I began. My family and I have learned to look, and my husband found either a piece of an arrowhead or a tool. I believe I had found a couple things. Discoveries of all kinds are truly amazing.

      • PDenver…Speaking of backyard treasures and art on another SB thread recently, the Anschutz Museum of Western Art is in downtown Denver. A significant part of that collection was acquired from Mr Fenn’s gallery. It is perhaps the finest collection of Western Art anywhere…its free unless you want the docent tour which I would recommend. I won’t give it away…but keep your eyes (ojos) open.

        • Thanks, Sandy! I’ve never been to that museum and may have to check it out sometime (in spite of its incredibly limited open hours of 10:00am – 4:00pm on Mondays and Wednesdays only?!!!).

          • And…fir fun, the museum is across the street from The Brown Palace, in historical downtown Denver. I plan to go again…the foundation is continually adding to the collection.

        • Thank you so much for this information, Sandy! I greatly appreciate it. I had no idea about this museum. I rarely go into the city, but this sounds like it would be wonderful to see.

  51. Has FF ever mentioned how he would get his remains to the location after he passes away without giving away the location of the TC?

    • Aaron-
      Forrest’s plan after he was told that he had terminal cancer and that he only had a short time left to live was to head to the hidey spot while he was still able and end his life, on his own terms, in that place. When his cancer went into remission he abandoned his plan of taking his life and of using the hidey spot as his death bed. Since he no longer has terminal cancer he has no more idea how or when he will die than you or I. He has told us that he no longer plans to ever return to the hidey spot.

      • I know that the TC is not in a cave, but I am wondering if any searchers have done research on caves as they have related to FF’s known interest subjects and professional acquaintances? If so, you may see a clue.

        • There is a cave at Wedding at the Waters, just south of Thermopolis. It’s in the Wind River Canyon/Big Horn Canyon. Thermopilis is home to free public hot springs. And it’s in Hot Springs County. There were ancient artifacts found there. It’s also an awesome place to fish for Brown trout. It’s Chase eye candy if you ask me.

    • “Is the chest hidden in the (exact) same spot that you would like your bones to be found, or is it a short distance away for reasons beyond your control? ~ Phil”
      “The spot is the same, but in less than two months I’ll be 84 and that means many of the things to which I once aspired are no longer available to me. I still anticipate, but I may be unable to grasp such a transient pleasure before my trail shows signs of growing too weary for the journey. To make that success would be the boldest move I ever made and to that end I just want it all the more.f “

      • Q: Are you willing to say whether the place of the treasure chest is the same as the one where you had previously plotted to have your bones rest forever? “Yes it is. f”

        Question: If this were true, then why the need for a lawyer to answer all of the possible scenarios? If it was the same place, then you would only need one answer, not five.

        • What is your “only one question” you think needed answering?

          The point to visiting a lawyer, I would assume, has many reasons…
          1. He ruined the story by not having to die. So, that change the discovery of a body with the belongings/personal property/ treasure.
          2. The challenge itself. Possible liability factors. Which now the treasure became a trove.
          3. Direct passing of the chest to the finder. In this case I think the chest is more a time capsule {which would fall under different laws}
          4. Possibly, a type of last will and testament. So future family generations can’t claim the trove from the finder.
          5. What if there’s no legal question about the location and finding… consulted a lawyer to double check that assumption.

          The original thought was to simply “take it with him.” The challenge may have never occurred if fenn didn’t get better… or didn’t have time to prepare the ‘challenge to the general public.’
          Remember it was 20 plus years to finalize the “plan” of the challenge under present/recent conditions… “Indecision is the key to flexibility”?

          • Gotcha!! You’re going to beat me to the chest yet, Seeker. Thanks, I never thought about that. 🙂 In the past there was no chase, not until 2010. So, it would have automatically have gone to his kin folk.

          • Seeker / Gordon – the issue of the chest being returned to family members instead of the finder keeping it had to be a big issue for f and I am sure was a significant issue to discuss with his lawyer. Of all the places that this issue might be addressed, I think it is in the poems’ last two stanzas. Some see these as clues, I see it as legal manuvering – and depending on the day, sometimes it’s both… still waiting for the chest to be found and see how it plays out.

          • JCM,
            I don’t see how anything in the poem could be usable or viable for a court order decision or defense of. For a legal matter, the poem is too ambiguous to be determined by law.

            However, as I said earlier… it would not surprise me that the personal bio, and hair strands explain the legal points evidence. Having those personal belongings and proof of, changes a trove as, no ownership, by definition, and passes ownership…{ IF told in the bio or other document within the “jar” or chest…The book and the poem by themselves don’t do that.

            Also because of what I call; a time capsule, because of the undeniable personal affects found in the jar.

            All an opinion…

    • dal is absolutely correct, though I also recommend you watch the Academy-Award-winning documentary film “Weekend at Bernie’s 2” for more insight on this subject. 😉

  52. I apologize if someone has already mentioned this – I am behind in my reading on this blog. On the T.V. show “Better Call Saul”, one of Saul’s clients said: he collects bottle caps. And the client mentioned that: the exciting part is the hunt. This show takes place in Albuquerque. I thought that was funny. I believe someone on this show is a fan of ff.

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