Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Twenty Five

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Thanks…

 

dal…

596 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Twenty Five

  1. Just an interesting fact on the previous conversation about artist George Bellows, some guy named Bill Gates purchased one of his paintings for 27.5 million dollars.

    • Interesting point, When I get to spot , Ill keep it secret we all have our own fishing spots that are special, They all come from the same source anyway, I have to do whats right when I find it. Just my thoughts.

      • gc,
        getting closer to what?
        Come on buddy, how about a quick introduction. If you are new to the chase let us know so we can heckle you some.
        In case you haven’t heard JD & Iron W are in a race to the finish line, poor Seeker hasn’t left the starting gate

  2. Good Evening Fellow Searchers,

    Been awhile since I’ve posted, but have dropped by as a lurker from time to time to hear the latest buzz. Guess it’s that time of year when many are saying “it will be found soon..”.

    Working on the line “Begin it” and wondered if anyone is willing to discuss this line of thought: What if BIWWW means 32 degrees, as in the southern border of NM, as a direction TO FLY FROM from the beginning, Temple, TX? (“Look at the big picture…”). Then keep going west until you hit the Grand Canyon. (“…take it in the canyon..”), then you land (“down”), from there its BOTG.

    Any takers?

    ~ Wisconsin Mike

    • Oh, yes, you travel well beyond the Grand Canyon “Not too far, but too far to walk”

      ~ Wisconsin Mike

    • Well if you go 32 degrees from the Dot on Santa Fe N.M. , the line goes right through Hyde Park, where we had Fenboree 😛

    • Wisconsin Mike, I from Missouri and looking to get to the Rockies, your not to far from me but it’s too far to walk for me, I have a wife and six kids,…… ahh ya six, anyway I have something that if you were to see with out taking my word for it, you would see with your own eyes. ( Private ) Looking to team up with someone, my wife put a stop to me taking the car, you know, all those kids. Just saying, we could go out and show them mountain people how it’s done, lol , I could show you WWWH, IF you knew where the treasure was, how soon could you leave?

      • Thomas,

        Six kids, huh? I have half that many and no wife, so at least I can take them with me. LOL! Forrest seemed to enjoy meeting my daughter last year at Fennboree.

        You can email me at reginvad at aol.com.

        ~ Wisconsin Mike

    • Mike,
      Fenn ~”…Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues.” —-
      “Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close.” —
      “There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest.”– (Moby Dickens Book Shop Signing / November 2, 2013) —
      “There have been some who have been within 500 feet because they have told me where they have been.  Others have figured the first two clues and went right past the treasure and didn’t know it.” 

      Mike, You have the first two clues hundreds of mile apart. Can you explain fenn’s comments that -seem- to imply the clues are closer?

      • I’m with Seeker on this one. I think Fenn possibly mentioned the searcher with 32 degrees, not because it was correct, but because it was an original idea.

        If I remember correctly, the searcher was also mentioned by name. In my mind this is a red flag because typically when Fenn drops hints, they can be interpreted in an infinite number of ways. Fenn probably appreciates the creativity, but not so much the correctness of the solve

      • Seeker, Always glad that you share these accurate quotes, however, would you agree that all instances of ff saying something similar would be at least 18-months ago? I would like to think that “some” have been much closer at this point and that is why ff has declined recent requests to provide an update to those statements.

        • LMN, most of the quotes are about the first two clues, more than how close to the chest.
          And my point to Mike’s clues..

          Personally, I don’t think it’s important about when the comment was made as much as how many comments about a subject is made to get an accurate thought process.

        • LMN – I think this statement from f at the end of 2016 sums up nicely all the previous years of statements by f on this topic:


          Many searchers told me the general area in which they are looking. I didn’t read the long emails, but in most of the short ones I looked for key words that would get my attention. Several did this year and I hope my lack of an email response was not taken as a clue.

          f
          (12/23/16)
          http://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-and-weekly-words-from-forrest-fenn-roundup-for-the-year/

          I mostly lean towards the idea that the status quo hasn’t changed much over the years. Like all the years before, many are all fired up and convinced they will soon be off to pick up the chest, and just like history, many will return home disappointed, wondering where they went wrong.

          • JCM
            I believe you are correct in your idea (status quo) except that I believe now there is significant progress that Fenn cannot comment about without giving away the farm. His later comment about maybe four clues gives me reason to believe this.
            Those that are convinced that they are going straight out to retrieve the chest soon most likely will have the same excuses as all the rest before them. Some may just disappear like most of the originals.

          • JCM, Thanks for the reply. As with most communications from ff there is a whole lot of room for interpretation and difference of opinion. I am a bit more optimistic that he is seeing signs that there could be a conclusion but will not respond to those communications (not desiring to influence the Chase one way or another). You have to respect that integrity and overall dedication to fairness.

      • Hi Seeker,

        Always nice to hear from you. Thank you also for a thoughtful commentary.

        Regarding the recent bait I tossed out, it seems I gotten a few bites. Do you feel that Forrest has specified that the first two clues are in close proximity to the rest? I’m still not so sure. If, for instance, someone followed my logic (?) initially, couldn’t that have gotten them on the ground (BOTG), but from there they were uncertain? I just have a sneaking suspicion that a flyover is somehow involved. (of course, that could just be Spring Fever…)

        ~ Wisconsin Mike

        • Mike,
          With all the comments I read on the first two clues, the words walked, went, doesn’t seem to me that the first two clues are a large distance apart.

          But… I did have a theory not unlike your thoughts that the clues are spread over a large area… and all pointed to a very small location. No stomping involved. However, for me to trust that theory, I would need to use fenn’s words “walked by” “went passed” all the remaining clues [ and the chest ] as metaphorical in meaning. I’m not sure it I believe that… I think fenn meant exactly what he stated. Some of the searchers who deciphered, figured out the first two clues, told him where they were, told him their process actually walked from those two clue and all the others.

          It’s just a stretch at this point with the after the fact comments that we need to fly, drive, horseback, jump a train or hop skip and jump across the country. But that’s just me.

          • Seeker,
            Of course I’m not stuck on this current line of thinking, and I greatly appreciate this discourse, but I still haven’t heard a strong argument against the first two clues, if that’s what WWWH and take it in the canyon down, are, as not being seen from the air. Couldn’t “not far, but too far to walk” indicate getting there by some other means? – drive, boat, via air? In this line of reasoning, I see the word “down” as being a stand alone meaning ‘to land the plane’ with “not far, but too far to walk” being descriptive how far along the canyon you travel, seeking a “home of Brown” as a landing area.

            ~ Wisconsin Mike

          • Seeker,
            Again, my point being that after the first two clues (little girl from India) we’re on the ground and BOTG from here.

            ~ Wisconsin Mike

          • Mike,
            If we twist it a bit it might work. Drop the flying and use birds-eye view and lets call that a map [line of thinking].

            The problem with an aerial view from a plane… it limits the opportunity for all to see it from that vantage point. [ just trying to think realistically, cost wise]. Perhaps this is why fenn stated “GE and/or a good map. GE gives that birds-eye view.

            So NFBTFTW might be that birds-eye view [elevation]. But, does that mean… “Put in” below hoB to be something found on a map as well… if ‘put in’ is to mean, bring yourself back to ground level?
            At this point, “from there…” would be botg.

            The thought is about the same as what you said… just slightly different.

        • Wisconsin Mike – On the topic of distances between the clues, I have always thought f’s statement in TFTW about threading a tract through the wiles of nature and circumstance to be very interesting as related to this point.

          At the end of the day, the poem is taking us precisely to a very, very specific spot; the 9 items of guidance in the poem, which get us to that spot, doesn’t afford a lot of extra space to be running us all over the country-side if those clues are going to get us precisely there.

          Just an opinion.

  3. fennshui…if you’re interested in a Bellows, BELOW is a fun passage from his biography that touches on some fun coincidences. (It is said that he was the missing ninth from “The Eight” and should have been included) forgive the tangent…Im a total self admitted printing/publishing geek.

    “Along with being a great painter, George Bellows was also one of this country’s greatest printmakers, who exploited the technique of lithography to make prints that are as fresh and natural-looking as a charcoal sketch. In executing these designs, George Bellows worked closely with the great printer Bolton Brown, who along with George Miller ranks as one of the two most significant American lithographers of the 20th century. The delicacy of Brown’s printing, however, was unique. While Miller produced richly tonal effects for artists such as Thomas Hart Benton and Grant Wood, Brown produced lithographs with a silvery delicacy that almost perfectly matches a pencil line, and gives Bellows’s prints the fresh, silvery appearance of actual drawings.”

    • Im more a fan of Hertzog and Spud Johnson when it comes to printing myself…but nonetheless F definitely puts effort into his own printing choices as well.

  4. Oz,

    Re: Your Odds-n-Ends 24 post to: Jonsey1, one curious thing about this statement is not what will they know in the future that we don’t, it is why ff is so sure that whatever these clues refer to will not change in the future. It is difficult to envision what would be 500 years from now, especially because 500 ago this was not even a country.

    ‘…Not all clues existed when I was a kid, but MOST of the PLACES the clues refer to did’. I wonder, did some of those places also existed back in 1776 when the country was founded? How about back in 1492? He thought about everything as far as we know, but how will you go about using clues to pinpoint to places (or geographical features) and be sure those places,names or labels will not change in the next 100 years?

    Oz, In the solution that I intend to apply this spring/summer (6) of the clues would be “places” that existed when ff was a “kid” and likely in 1776 and very possibly in 1492. The remaining (3) would apply with some combination of double entendre or the use of historical research “1000” and maybe even “10,000” years from now (if the Lord tarries – yet, not if He should tarry scant).

    So my question remains, do you know any good, retired trout fishing guides that might “volunteer” services in exchange for a few turquoise beads and a little silver?

    • I think the first clue and the last clue will never change and the middle represents the present day, meaning time and what in packs humans put on the middle clues could change, Fenn has said “If can’t find the chests location go back to the first clue “. If any clue in the middle of the poem disappeared you could still find the chest it would just be a little harder, along with people has figured out the first two clues and walk right past, tells me that just the first clue will most likely take you in the direction of the chest, you stick the first one and connect the last one with the first one, I’d say you would have it.

      • I don’t know, I think he is just saying make sure you have the right starting point… because if you don’t find the treasure in NM and it really rests in Colorado… you need to go back and make sure you are at the right WWWH IMO

        • Well I not sure about that, if that’s what he is saying it sounds like that would be a waste of breath to Mr Fenn, the Rocky Mountain’s is the starting point and people have figured out the first clue wwwh’s and didn’t come up with the chest, if they would have researched the place wwwh’s they may have found a connection with another place a few miles down the road which would send them in the right direction. Forrest already said to start from the beginning of his poem, that would be repeating himself plus it’s common sense if you can’t find it your in the wrong spot! I’m a big believer on how Fenn put his poem together which matches the way TS Eliot speaks in Little Gidding, every line in the poem has a beginning and a end. Ex. You begin where warm waters halts but the end of that line will be in the canyon down, also not far but too far to walk, each line your at one point which takes you to another point by the end of that line. Now if you look at the poem in a whole it to will have a beginning and a end, the end will lead you to a legible stone that will be around forever, ( the center point ) just like a spinning wheel has a center point which never moves. But to find the correct center point , ( the end ) you must locate the correct beginning and it will tell you the history of the ending ( your destination ). I also believe the middle of the poem could even be meaning the name of roads like a directional map, the reason I say that is if your not from the area how would you know where the old Johnson barn used to be? Just saying, this is only what I think and no one can say I’m wrong unless they come up with the chest and prove I’m wrong, and on the other hand I can’t prove I’m right unless I come up with the chest.

      • Hi Thomas,
        I think you meant to make a reference to what Forrest wrote on January 6, 2017 at Jenny’s site under Surprise And Random Words:

        ” *If you don’t know where it is, go back to the first clue.f ”

        I agree, your interpretation makes perfect sense, but there is scope for that quote to mean something different. It might mean that a searcher who doesn’t know where the first clue is located should go back to working on the first clue.

    • Lmn, that is what I’m thinking, yet I do not have the count.

      The only retired fishing guide I know is ff himself, and yes he will do it for the bracelet.

      If you know where the chest is precisely, send him an email with the location and the date and time you will be there to retrieve it and he may show up and do a little trout fishing with you. He’s done it tired…

      • Oz, As much as I like that idea of yours and as thrilling as it would be to share that moment, I come from a long and deep family line of practical jokers and teasers. I don’t know ff well enough to know if I would end up talking to a actor in a Park Ranger costume with handcuffs rattling in my ears when I am trying to go, “in there.” So, as recommended, when / if my schedule finally allows and I would be privileged to see those clues with my own eyes , I go alone.

    • LMN. IMHO, that is also my approach to the solve, I have posted that before.
      If you find the 6 correct places, join the dots on a map, it will reveal the shape and location of the blaze.
      I believe that most lines in the poem are anagrams that will reveal hints and clues. It is subjective as to what is a clue or hint, I think people are getting too hung up on this subject.
      My search State is Montana, where are you looking?
      Good luck with your search and I hope you identify the 6 correct places.

      • JohnR

        Hate to disagree, but in my solve I wind up with more than 6 correct places. There are places in the last two stanzas – you probably are overlooking these. JDA

      • Thanks, John. But if I connected the dots, it year would look like a 3-old’s drawing. Good luck with your theory.

    • Doesn’t anyone else think it’s odd for F to keep talking about what he has done in his life?

      Yea, the chase & his life, the books, SB’s, WW’s, Surprise Words, Random Words, Questions, F gets mail. The list goes on and on.

      I think there are hints in all & he would like the bracelet before he passes on.

      Screw 1,000 years down the road.
      I think he would have kept his mouth shut tight if he didn’t want it to be found within his lifetime, wherever that is.

      • That sounds like a desperate reaction in my book, Jake…

        Let look at it another way;
        Took 15 years of rewrites on the poem.
        Over 20 years on planning and final execution of hiding the chest and creating an avenue to deliver the poem to the public.
        Spent obscene amount of his money not only to by and collect the items and the chest, plus started a publishing company to do it all.
        Spends money on lawyer[s] for what ever reasons he had.
        Gives away all profits and sale of the book TTOTC.
        And doesn’t tell another soul where the chest is hidden. Not even his Mrs. Fenn.

        Sure, why not… it’s now a total of 29 years from the birth of the thought and who knows how much truly spent { with all the above and a million plus trove }.
        NAAAA, he wasn’t looking down the road at all… “and like Eric Sloane at almost eighty, I figured it was time to act”

        “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. ****People don’t understand that.”****
        “Whoever finds the treasure will mostly earn it with their imagination. ***I have done only a few things in my life that were truly planned. Hiding the treasure chest is one of them.”***

        Screw all these facts and comments as well? LOL, Man you make me laugh…

        • Desperation?
          I think not.
          Why else would he be very active in the chase??

          I’ll bet he had over 80% of the poem done 15 years ago & changed little.

          Does not give all profits from sale of TTOTC.

          What’s “flippant” mean anyway to him or anyone else?

          Why all the chatter from him in 7 years?
          Awful lot of communication for someone that doesn’t want it found till U.S. maybe another country?

          I think he wants it to be found in his lifetime while it’s still somewhat sane.
          Screw that into your head unless it’s stripped.

          • Seeker & Jake – Jake raises a very valid argument. Why would f continue to share so many things and be a part of his chase if he didn’t want the chest to be found? After all he hid the chest so it could be found by someone.

            Think back to the New Mexico True Searchers video that was done a couple of year back. F said “Do I want the chest to be found in my lifetime, a part of me says yes, but a part of me says no.” I personally think f created the chase as a goal and would like to see his goal come to fruition. I also think, like Jake said, that many of the communications that f has shared with us contain hints.

            Think about this Seeker. If you personally set a goal, wouldn’t you want to see the end result?

            Of course you may overthink this to death and ask more questions instead of acting upon what f has told us all. If that’s what you choose to do then have fun while the rest of the searchers at least attempt to figure out the elusive poem with actions instead of just words.

          • You go Hma,
            Us smarter peeps know he wants it found before the end.
            The other sheeps just keep twirlin around the grass chasing their …

            It’s very obvious that’s the case & I’m sure his family lets him know.

          • Good grief … The man has millions tied up in a challenge, more than 20 years invested, and you are SurpriseD he is involved as much as he is???

            Did ya know of the original plan… to go to his special spot and take it with him?
            What did he say when he walked back to his car and laughed out loud… It’s out of my hands?

            Here’s a thought… write a memoir of some stories in your life. Write an autobiography of who you are and why this was done, and place it in a trove. Write a poem that contains clue that will lead to that special spot.
            And, maybe, make it difficult by having the poem nothing about you… nothing about the stories and very subtle clues if you can recognize them to help.
            Important possibility?
            Difficult, but not impossible.
            I mean, why bother making a 20,000 word bio, take the effort to make it so small it can’t be read by eye… when the book is out into the public and he wants it found now… really?
            How long would it take you to make a lengthily book/bio that can only be read with a magnifying glass?
            Don’t worry about looking up words and meanings, fenn’s not tell the truth, right?
            Don’t worry about how the poem might play out in a 1000 years, he didn’t mean that either, right?

            I can wait till ya’ll get back from your ~I know I solved the poem vacations.

            “…I am determined to stay aloof of
            providing any additional clues that are useful. Everyone has the same information to work with….”

            Ya’ll remember the useless clues comments?

          • I see the bolt is cross threaded Seeker.
            Try to back it out & start over.

            There is & has been no one as involved as F with his treasure quest as apposed to others that I can see. This website & others were created from the chase & where he likes to post things all the time as well as Jenny’s site from the beginning.

            Yea, some of the stories are just that from life experiences he wants to share but a lot of material he shares have hints.
            Why else would the area in which the chest lays shrink?
            Because of him.

            If he didn’t want it found until 3017 then why would he keep on talking?

            He is a cow that keeps giving milk but won’t give a steak.

            What about his family? Do you think he cares more about the chase than his family?

            He is now on the fast track to see the end.

        • Seeker – You remind me of “that customer” that is holding up the line at say Burger King. When the employee is ready to take your order, you ask them what the Whopper consists of even though everyone north of 3 years of age know what the Whopper is made of. When they answer you, you then start in with questions about how many fries will be included with the meal and whether the pickles were grown organically or not. Your holding up the rest of the line.

          Seriously Seeker! Why won’t you take action instead of running endless scenarios back at other searchers? F did say (paraphrasing) that someone will solve the clues and walk to the treasure. That to me implies thinking and acting, not just thinking. Maybe you’ve got some inside scoop that says we should all sit around and ponder the poem instead of actually taking action at some point. You either sit on the pot forever or you take action. Have fun sitting around while others actually do something. Even if searchers fail while trying at least they will have tried.

          • LOL!! I guarantee that ya’ll cain’t suck air in fast enough, nor bring a big enuff lunch, to out-bark ole yeller,….he like one of them Energizer Bunnies….he jest keeps agoing and going!!!! 🙂

            Good Luck to All Ya’ll

          • HMA – Seeker is a very interesting guy. I have had various thoughts and opinions of him over the years, but I consider him to be a great friend in the chase and out of it. He doesn’t reveal much about himself personally online (most of us don’t), but from private conversations, I have come to have a deep respect for who he is as a person, even with his apparent warts and all. We all have our flaws.

            The online world provides various screens and filters that prevent us from knowing and understanding things about each other that would otherwise be plain and clear if we sat down around a campfire together.

            Where others would have long-ago thrown in the towel, Seeker continues to push forward and thrive. Don’t put it past him to one day make that botg walk; for some of us, it is easier to go and do, in many of the ways and facets of life.

          • Yea Hma,
            You cannot have it your way in this chase.
            I see it’s like going in a circle & never knowing where the center is.

            I’ll bet those tomato’s are GMO’s.

          • A good friend of mine found the $2500 treasure hidden by the “Colorado Treasure Hunts” organization. His trick was to go to the area where the treasure was hidden and then he just sat and watched where all the other searchers were looking. He was able to eliminate all the places the treasure wasn’t. He then walked right to it. Seeker is a smart guy!!

          • JCM, you know that comment got me to thinking

            NOW I HAVE THIS IMAGE in my head that Seeker looks like Lemmy from MOTORHEAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            IMO, Lemmy performed Enter Sandman better than Metallica

            Also,imo why would anybody want to go into professional sports, if they had any musical talent?

        • Seeker – I think f tells the truth. Is it possible that you misapprehend what f has said? I think so.

      • Hey Jake…If we double down the big picture “Inception” style we might assume F telling all those stories and engaging because he is actually on a chase of his own looking for the person who would be able to solve the poem and wants to find them. The hunt itself merely a perfectly tied fly for the rare fish. Who knows.. Maybe they stole a painting from him awhile back, or they bet him they could in a past life or something. Goofy…you got my back on this one, right?

        He doesn’t actually care if the chest is found in his lifetime, just wants to find the person that would or could find it.

        (This post is entirely for amusement purposes…I think. Lol.)

        • Or MAYBE….he hid it for himself in his next life.

          Knowing, or course, he would be tempted to play his own game even if he didnt know he was actually him before so hes trying to leave himself many subtle clues to remind his future self.

          Anyone know what happened to this empty box of wine?

          • ^sorry if that was annoying. I do believe there is a “looking down the road” element for sure not joking about that but the rest was just because I literally just watched Inception for the first time and it prompted silly ideas that made me giggle.

          • Our reincarnated selves don’t stand a chance solving this puzzle against FF 2.0 say in a hundred years from now.

          • Jonesy,
            The movie “Frequency” from year 2000 starring Denis Quaid is quite apt to this scenario . Collapsing Time within the constructs of the mind . The only barrier is programmed belief. I had a similar experience that only a sane person would remain sane by the experience. A genius in their time is usually perceived as loony.It is later that they are reviewed as being ahead of their time. What they knew then as ‘out there’ becomes the normal now,later.

          • Hi Jonsey1. Interesting. Space_Time Dilation: Consider the mathematical function of perceived time elapsed versus actual time if all the mass in the universe were nearby (as in the big bang)? Assuming the function is aggressively radical, (whether time passed more slowly then or faster then) either scenario would necessarily imply that the universe is significantly younger than traditional linear time projection dictates. Society at all levels has yet to internalize this scientific fact IMO.

        • That’s an interesting way to think about it Jonsey1.
          He is actually on the chase to see the winners but I do think he cares when it is found. Why did he put the bracelet in the chest then regretted it & wants it back?

          For someone 1000 years down the road to find it & dig up his grave & put it on his wrist if, it’s not dust by then?

          His writing is on the wall. This wall here & Jenny’s site & the books of course.

        • We all seem to find those hidden messages within the stories of that master wordsmith. So who knows? One of these days however far in the future when the snow retreats from the spring, the end may draw nigh, some crazy dreamer may b goin in there, and we may for sure know who was able to claw their way to the truth.

          • Clee, how can one know for sure who was able to claw their way to the truth, when, as you stated, ‘far in the future’? Hope my question makes sense.

          • Clee, it seems your post can be read two ways, not knowing where a comma should be placed.

      • Jake, I don’t think it is particularly odd that Forrest likes sharing stories about his life. I think that anyone around his age who has lived a long, full life has gained a good amount of wisdom and has the same desire to share stories and lessons to younger people. He’s gotten a lot of people’s attention with the Chase, and while he’s got everyone’s ear, he’s getting some of his most important messages across: Don’t squander your life sitting in front of a television all day, get outside, meet people, learn a hobby, learn to craft something, do things that make life worth living, etc. These are nice life lessons that all of us can benefit from, as opposed to finding the treasure chest, which will only benefit the single finder.

        I may be wrong on this and you may turn out to be completely right that every story in his books and on this website contains a subtle hint to finding the treasure. But I think it’s good to enjoy the stories for what they are at face value too, before dissecting them for hints.

        • Incidentally, to follow up on the topic that JDA had started on the last archived Odds & Ends Page, I think that a lot of topics like this would be resolved once the location of the treasure chest is finally revealed. Once we know the hiding spot, we can go back over all of Forrest’s posts & stories and see if he was in fact giving us hints the whole time.

          That’s why I hope that whoever finds the chest takes to heart “The Golden Rule” and does let all of the other searchers know what the final solve is. I’ll definitely share the location if I’m the lucky one, and I hope if someone else finds it first, that they also share the solve with all of the other searchers out there. To have the Chase fizzle out without any resolution seems particularly cruel to me.

        • I agree with your 1st paragraph Blex.
          Of course he wants to share his life experiences & I will add that he likes to sprinkle hints in some of the statements.

          I am not completely right & know this. Sorry for using the “all” word.
          I meant to say that many of his statements have hints. Some stories & statements may have many purposes.

          I want my bracelet back!

  5. Hi, I have seen talk on will the final solution be revealed, I would guess not. Why? If the answer is revealed and in 10,000 years who would get their minds caught in this puzzle teaching us to confirm our thoughts and research to places and people. Also who could learn from his wisdom that it is our family and the time we spend with them is most important hence his push to get us outside with our families searching. Even if we were to lose touch with them we can always reconnect when the time is right.

    If Forrest doesn’t release the poem solution or his autobiography I conclude we can learn about Forrest simply enough if we read his released books and other online materials. The autobiography is in super small print which is not easily read could be a clue. The autobiography could have been written for the writer not the reader. The discovered autobiography in the chest may be private if that it true it should not be released. Maybe his bracelet is wrapped around the bio. and thats the reason he wants the bracelet back. If he is still alive when the chest is found. The finder could also choose to write their own words which may become public or stay hidden.

    One one could also hide their own autobiography in a chest, or one could just keep it close to their heart, for aren’t they the same place.

    Be safe out there searchers, it will be warm and dry soon.

    TLC

  6. Just got back from New Mexico and thought for sure the treasure was hid in the Santa Fe River area but there is no access to it. The whole area is the watershed. Very big disappointment!!

    • james,

      Unfortunately, the Santa Fe River is not 8.25 miles North of Santa Fe. It begins approx. 7 miles North of the northern boundary of Santa Fe.

      I live about 1/2 mile from the Santa Fe river, and I have yet to see water in it.

      Not much of a ‘watershed’ in my humble opinion. 🙂

      • So when Fenn said 66000 links or 8.25 miles from Santa Fe, did he mean the boundary line or the circle on the map? If he meant the border or boundary lines the Hyde park would not be far enough either then. Is this correct? I wish I lived down in your area it is such an awesome place!!

  7. I would make a list of early solves that came within 200 feet of the treasure.
    But I am pretty sure that most of them either go through Cimarron, NM or Yellowstone National Park. Since the Fennboree is going to be in Hyde Park again I will settle for going there instead. The Big Tesuque creek is always promising.

  8. if I was going to look for the treasure chest – I would start at Cochiti lake that is my wwwh – then I would get on 285 north on the rio grande canyon and before I would go to far i would turn left on rio chama to me it is canyon down and would take it in go west to abiquiu res – south of there – what is near and dear to him – there is a very large land formation of an upside down head of a dear that to me is hob – from there i would go north to the the end of the water which to me is waters high no paddle i would leave it behind that is where the water is being released in to the chama creek that to me would be no paddle up your creek for right now that would be as far as i want to go all this is in my opinion

  9. wasn’t the treasure chest placed at the spot forrest wanted to die.and didn’t he say it still is? got me thinking,where has he been that is so special that he wants or wanted to die there.didn’t he tell some little girl in one of his scrapbooks or something,I’ll show you a forest?not in a dangerous place,but be careful.people have walked passed it,but it suspose to be not near a human path,right or wrong?if he made his own path or followed an animal path,wouldn’t it be sprung back up now by growth of nature,so this part puzzles me,anyone with ideas.

    • There are hints and clues in everything he says and has done and of course he wants to see the chest found soon .imo

    • virginia, I believe that FF’s words are pretty straightforward
      and down-to-earth in the poem, although the use of some
      imagination is quite important to a good solve.

      When he told us that the TC is not in close “proximaty” to a
      human trail, I think he was referring to a clearly-seeable
      trail, as one might find marked with a signpost, indicating
      the name of the trail, perhaps, or perhaps something like where the trail begins. This trail would be popular enough that after it was first established (“built” or “paved” or “dug”), it would be used frequently enough such that it wouldn’t soon be overgrown by the local vegetation. Please know
      that a human trail could include a road (paved or not).

      I believe that there is no human trail — as described above — within a mile of the TC.

      When FF said that someone “walked right past” or “went
      right past”, something, this does not necessarily mean they were very — or even relatively — close to the thing.
      They could have been miles away, and failed to take
      a correct turn or route that would have taken them much closer (i.e., within about 500 feet).

      From seeing your posted messages, I think you are a
      good person, and I don’t mind trying to steer you a little
      bit in the right direction toward a method of the kind of
      thinking that will help you in your poem-solving efforts.

      To that purpose, please don’t ignore any part of the poem.
      Don’t re-arrange or change ANY of the words. Anagrams
      aren’t involved. Counting words or letters won’t help.
      Even counting how many clues there are isn’t really
      important. Just solve the poem.

      Please think about when FF was born. It plays into the things he has thought about (not including the war, although that is certainly a major part of his decision where to hide the TC) . . . all relating to the correct solve.

      Good luck. Please don’t feel like you have to “follow the
      crowd” in the way they are failing at this search. Out-of-the-
      box thinking is the ticket to success. But not TOO far
      out-of-the-box.

      Numerology, numbers (in any way, shape, or form), non-English language(s), sophisticated scientific concepts, or exotic/uncommon knowledge won’t help at all.

      Show the poem to a bunch of children, one at a time, so they can each independently give you their thoughts on it
      . . . particularly regarding the first clue. Too many adults
      are getting it WAY wrong, which I find disappointing.

      Don’t make assumptions, such as thinking that FF always
      plays by all rules (such as laws!).

      Good luck to you, and please emphasize safety in the
      Rockies.

  10. I never tire from hearing or reading Fenn’s stories. It is debatable whether they all contain hints or even have any Chase related value in terms of locating the treasure. I just find it very interesting that Fenn has remained involved and continues to play. That untiring determination to stay connected truly shows that he still has that little boy imagination and gets pleasure from the interaction. Some question his motives and seem to think there is foul play and others move forward and want to play the game with a light heart. This Chase is an opportunity that does not come along very often and certainly is unique. I admire how long he has kept this secret and how careful he has been with his words. Seven years of cat and mouse….pretty amazing when you really look at it !

    • You have that right Ken;

      What an amazing man. What an amazing challenge.
      What an amazing time we have all had, including Forrest.

      If it is found this search season, it will be bitter-sweet. Where will we all go from here if it is found? I hope that the spirit of the chase can somehow continue after it is found. JDA

      • I agree with you on keeping the spirit alive after the chest is found, JDA. Here’s what I was thinking if I end up being the finder:

        Right now, the IRS allows up to $14,000.00 to be given away as a gift tax-free. Now $14K isn’t anywhere close to the $1-3 million prize on the ff treasure, but I think would still be a pretty good incentive to keep the Chase moving on. If I find the chest (and assuming some governmental entity doesn’t confiscate the entire trove), I’d like to cash out $14K, place it inside a modern waterproof chest, and create my own poem and my own hiding spot. The finder of that treasure would not have to worry about selling off any ancient artifacts or gold, and would legally not even have to declare it to the IRS. Just $14K cash that one could walk away with and enjoy, no matter where it’s hidden! I think that would be pretty darn fun!

        • The only problem with that is…. what if in five thousand years your treasure is found paper money is not used anymore and is worthless, now on the other hand gold will always be sought after and just keep rising in value. You must look ahead and think about the what if’s.

          • I would think that 5,000 year-old paper money would be quite a valuable historical artifact if kept well-preserved. But I’d be more optimistic than Forrest and would hope that my cash-stash would be found by someone within a decade.

            I’d also like, in addition to the cash, to throw in some other interesting trinkets and as-yet-undefined-what-nots in my own chest to make it more interesting, but it wouldn’t be anything super valuable like gold or jewels. Maybe like a really nice, well-protected, bottle of scotch? I like the idea of the finder being able to have a celebratory toast on site! 🙂

      • Here’s the deal JDA, it’s going to be found this search season, and yes, bitter sweet. Looks like Trump will hook everyone up with a job, I’m sure people will use this site as they do like Facebook. The spirit of this chase was designed to never go away or forgotten, this is the main reason Forrest began the thrill of the chase, not just to get people out of the house but mainly for Forrest, the thoughts going through his mind after being told he had so much time left on this earth had to be very scary, to himself. I’m sure his first thoughts wasn’t to get people off the couch it most likely thinking did he leave a big enough in print on this earth that he’s never forgotten, scary thing to just be forgotten, but it happens. He achieved what he was looking for even after the chest is found, his spirit will live on and on.

        • You could well be right Thomas, but read the following by Forrest: “If I cannot enrich those with whom I interact each day and cause them to be better for my having passed their view, then I have wasted my turn. That I succeed in this endeavor is not as important as it is for me to make a solid try. For if the try is sincere I have succeeded in whatever failure resulted … So now, at least for me I know. And if no one should ever think of me when I have passed this vale, it will be of no consequence, for I have finally found my way and am at peace with it all.” f Forrest seems quite content with the “foot-print” that he has already left – He does not seem like an egotistical person at all. – to me at least. JDA

  11. Imagination by conjecture
    ( I > < K )
    Some time we as people can only describe things in first person.
    I saw a dog . I like that , I believe that , I will , I did , I can , I may ect….

    When we say something ,we seem to forget if it is based off others information
    the inference to reference ,then we believe we our selfs thought it.
    It is a re-gurtation of the facts. And those can get pretty wet.
    Like when Fenn said he was 79 or 80 , we can add to it all day long.
    But the truth here, is we all seem to need reassurance in our "solves "
    of the poem to see if we are in the right or wrong.
    Please allow me to share this from To Far , Too Walk –
    " I warned the path would be difficult for those with no certainty of where the location is , but sure of the one who did. "
    Allow me to share some truth , when we all started this, me 5 1/2 years ago ;
    None of us were certain about any thing , more so if Forrest Fenn didn't give any hints , my guess is we all would still be in the dark .
    To this my point is all of you are special , and each of your wisdom in the
    chase should be honored . The hunt requires difficulty ! No-one knew of the location and most have made the mistake aa I and tried to find a blaze first.
    Well , we are looking for some physical evidence to prove he was there and we are on the trail . But , Fenn only knows the trail, and said not to look fro the blaze first. Well Forrest , I never listen – so I did Imagine the blaze and tried to answer all your questions. To the best of my ability .
    Someone once told me to look at this in a new way , because they thought I had hit a wall . No on contrary I went through the wall as most would stop. I am hard headed though.lol
    This note is to encourage every one of you to remember when you were a
    child and how awesome this world is and was then . And remember the lil things that made you… well…, you . Then go into that closet of your and get your toys you hid. Because now you know how to play with them .
    Good luck to all who are in search of it.

      • No problem! I looked into the NatGeo website in a little more detail this morning and it looks pretty slick. Make sure you look at the 5-page PDF that it spits out to you at the end and not just the searchable map; there is a LOT of terrain information missing on the searchable map that only appears on the PDF.

        You’ll see a bunch of red flag symbols as you zoom in on the searchable map. Once you select one that looks to be in the area you want, click on the red flag symbol to jump to the 5-page PDF. The first page of the PDF will be a 100K scale showing how it is split into four 7.5 maps, and the following 4 pages of the PDF show those four 7.5 maps. It’s a pretty nice job the way they formatted this information. The only element that is a bit awkward is if your search area happens to be right on the border of two 100K scale regions, in which case you’ll have to do some hopping back and forth.

        I don’t know if anyone has any of those older National Geographic TOPO! CD-Rom’s that used to be sold at stores like REI several years ago (they are no longer being sold), but I have some of those and just compared the information on those CD’s to the information on the website and the information looks pretty much identical to me. My hat’s off to National Geographic for deciding to upload all this information to the internet for free!

  12. In Forrest’s Scrapbook Seventy Three

    http://dalneitzel.com/2014/05/26/scrapbook-seventy-three/

    he posts the question: “Who made the rule that says I shouldn’t end a sentence with a preposition?” This scrapbook is not the first place that Forrest has put forth this question. Perhaps we were not listening tightly the first time. The answer seems to be so important that he feels it is worth asking at least twice. Once in one of his memoirs…and again here on the blog.

    Like many of Forrest’s questions it is framed as a challenge, of sorts. Directly asking his dear readers to search for an answer..but why? It cannot be because Forrest does not know who is responsible for making his sentences outlaws. The answer is easily found by anyone with access to Google or a Carnegie Public Library.

    Perhaps the answer is a hint…or not…

    John Dryden is believed to be the first person to publicly posit that English sentences should not end in prepositions. Dryden created the prescription against “preposition stranding” in 1672 when he objected to a line in Ben Jonson’s 1611 poem which reads, “the bodies that those souls were frighted from”.

    Dryden was himself a poet and playwright and often stranded prepositions at the end of his own sentences…breaking his own rules…just like Forrest…

    Interestingly…there is a gold claim called the Dryden Mine

    https://mrdata.usgs.gov/mrds/show-mrds.php?dep_id=10124543

    just outside Yellowstone National Park, east of Gardiner, Montana.

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/45°02'02.8%22N+110°34'47.0%22W/@45.0467272,-110.5765787,15278m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d45.03411!4d-110.57971

    I certainly would not advocate that anyone go snooping around a registered mining claim without permission. That’s a very unclever way to get shot…

    But curious…none-the-less. If you’re inclined to look for hints in the scrapbooks…

    • Interesting angle, dal; I like it! Do you think that this area may be one of your trip focuses this season?

      As someone who typically tries to maintain good grammar, I share Forrest’s distaste for avoiding ending sentences with prepositions at all costs. It seems like a silly, arbitrary rule that often results in sentences that sound more odd than if they simply just ended in a preposition (like the Einstein quote that Forrest shared). I liked the effort that you put into tracking down the origins of this grammar rule and the background seems to confirm that it is indeed silly and arbitrary!

      • I just took another look at the poem and noted that “Begin it where warm waters halt, And take it in the canyon down” is essentially a “sentence” that ends in a preposition.

        I put sentence in quotes above because the manner in which Forrest punctuates this stanza is essentially a run-on sentence. Forrest should probably have placed a period or semicolon after “down” instead of a comma. This led to me looking at the punctuation in the poem in general. Forrest only includes one semicolon in the poem (after “nigh”), when it appears that he should have used a few additional semicolons after the words “down” (“Not far, but too far to walk” would only be a sentence fragment if separated from the previous 2 lines), “creek”, “gaze”, and “know”. Also, the comma after “meek” should be replaced with either a semicolon or a period, and the comma after “good” should either be replaced with a colon or a period.

        Of course, Forrest gets a pass on all of this because this is a poem, and when it comes to poetry one can break as many grammar rules as they darn well feel like it! 🙂

        • Blex you said ~’ I share Forrest’s distaste for avoiding ending sentences with prepositions at all costs.’
          I’m not sure that is what fenn meant by the question…“Who made the rule that says I shouldn’t end a sentence with a preposition?”

          Maybe the real question is; is the use of the word down meant as a preposition?
          There is subtle difference/changes in the meaning and usage of the word in the sentence if used as a verb or adjective… what is perplexing is how fenn designed the poem to be understood.
          As you said…when it comes to poetry one can break as many grammar rules as they darn well feel like it!
          This might be why fenn chose this avenue to present the clues… freedom of word meanings and usages, but not grammar correct. Not unlike straight forwards to straightforwards, and neither have to mean simple, but could mean in all honesty or true.

          You also mentioned the use of commas. In the lines; “Look quickly down , your quest to cease , But tarry scant with marvel gaze…” It seems to me that the use of those two commas separate “your quest to cease” as a second thought or action in the middle section of the sentence. The lines might read/be understood as… Look quickly down, But tarry scant with marvel gaze your quest to cease…IF we read it as an action needing to be applied to finalize the location of the chest. Not so much as, we simply look down at the chest.

          This reading of the poem could also imply that in stanza 2 the understanding of “Put in below the home of Brown” a stand alone sentence, might be saying… WWWH Canyon Down NFBTFTW making hoB, intentionally to be the possible first clue.

          If I said; we all sat under the covered porch of the house… we have a covered porch as a clue, a house as a clue, we/us [vague information] as a clue, but no location of where the house is… But if I said, put in below the water tower… wouldn’t that give the location of the house?

          Just thoughts of law breaking proper grammar.

          • Looks like you’re reading my mind, sir. Exactly how I saw that. Wonder why he didn’t recommend taking a pillow…just ramblings of a dottering mind. Got an autographed photo of Roy Rogers when I was a kid. I’ll bet he could find the treasure. 🙂

          • Or maybe put in below the home of Brown is just another way of saying where the mountains meet the flat lands, which would mean it’s not just one spot like a house that a Brown lived in but is referring that when you reach the point in the poem put in below the home of Brown, you need to turn onto a road that is just below where the mountains meet the flat lands and from there it’s no place for the meek.

          • Also good points, Seeker. If I remember my English classes correctly, I think the term for a phrase separated by commas as in: “Look quickly down , your quest to cease , But tarry scant with marvel gaze…” is called an “oppositive”

            I agree that it’s possible Forrest may be throwing out a clue regarding the prepositions, but my personal preference has been to generally take the scrapbook entries at face value. I do like how dal’s original post above put a spotlight on the punctuation of poem. There’s been a lot of talk about meanings of words in the poem, but I haven’t noticed much conversation specifically talking about the punctuation. Maybe there are additional secrets buried within?

          • IMO thomas,
            I don’t think the SB’s hold hints and clues [ they type that many think they do anyways], but they do have a type of informational point about them. I personally think fenn simply enjoys telling a story [ no matter the subject ] with details, written in a way, to make one think.

            My example is in part SB 124 [ if i recall the number correctly ].. And with the fish he took my picture, I mean, he took my picture with it. [ close enough for horseshoes ] The point is, how something can be worded incorrectly but can be deciphered what is meant.

            While I like the thought of hoB to mean mountains… I look at that as the big picture thought and home to mean habitation, or land bears inhabit [ an overall aspect of their habitat ]. But for that to be so, wwh and canyon down should be in the same overall big picture. A very large area… the mountain range.

            My problem now with this thought boils down to the first two clues… How can we explain away folks telling fenn where they had been and indicated the first couple clues [ maybe now as many as four ] and walked by the remaining seven and the chest?

            I just don’t see the reason for a vehicle or those types of transportation involved with the solve. But that’s just me.
            With that said, what i like about Dal’s post is how one can see what might be a very subtle hint and work with it to understand how the poem may read out.

            LOL, is out, a preposition? Proper grammar should read; and work with it to understand how the poem ‘might be’ read. But did you understand it? and could out, even thought not grammar correct, be needed if I was using it as part of a clue… for example.

            Are we reading this “poem” too straightforwards as literal, linear and grammar correct?

        • I don’t think it matters to him where he punctuates it’s just intertaning to him to see if anyone will bring it up and try to correct him. Here I’ll say the same thing. ” I don’t think it matters to him where he punctuates, it’s just intertaning to him to see if anyone will bring it up, and try to correct him”. Just like that my word where straight forward with or without punctuations, like Forrest I’ve never been very good at spelling or where I should punctuate and let me say when people read what I’ve wrote even when they know what I’m trying to say can be rude and try to make me feel dumb, mostly in front of others. Never what pass the ninth grade but I don’t look upon myself as a dummy, I’m very alert.

        • Right. Artistic license applies here. I think Forrest Fenn makes the cut for being an artist. Anyway, sentences should just end with a period.

          • touche’ JDA. See it’s these kinds of things that convince me I’m a spectator on the journe to the treasure. Kawabunga!

          • Raised in Texas, I thought I had heard them all. No. Wait. Yep, I’ve heard that one too but it’s a great illustration. Mind is wandering again…wonder if FF ever went to or through La Grange as a teen…it was right up there with Grqpette.

    • Awesome write up, Dal. I’ve been known to shout out ‘double negative’ when I see one and I saw one.

    • Dal,
      But curious…none-the-less. If you’re inclined to look for hints in the scrapbooks…

      I do believe there are hints in the SB`s…but not in all of them.

      I especially like this one…but not for the reason of grammer.

    • Dal, I appreciate the fact that you share what is on your mind with the rest of us in a thought provoking and challenging manner. Learning something every day!

    • i spent months on the prepositions. i found something with them that could not be real, and spent the next 2 years completing this theory, based on that initial preposition finding. It took me to yellowstone, even though i was a NM searcher… i could not ignore everything. It took everything i had to get there- driving straight there, and driving straight home. 24 hr drives. and my search was a bust- different story. i was so disappointed- not that i didn’t find it, but that i couldn’t even cross it off my list. 2 years of solving, research and maps and reading things different ways, maybe even a little confirmation bias. i still believe in this theory, but i can’t get back there this year. I am trying to get to NM one last time with my sister this summer…

      thanks for reading that, if you did. but i’m almost ready to give this theory to someone who is going there. i’m not saying it’s right, but it’s possible some of it is- and possible none of it is. i’ll give it to someone who is open, won’t refute it, just take it as it is, slightly adjust, and just go check it out. – and also, i buried a time capsule 20 years ago somewhere behind the Lake Hotel employee dorms… maybe find that for me too?

      • Hi Leigh

        I have responded to you before, I follow your blogs and know your general area in Yellowstone area….I would like to communicate off-line with you. If you recall I had an old boss in Phoenix with same name and she was such a great human…sorry it wasn’t you!

        I am going there in the next month or two depending on snow and weather. Looks like from the webcams things look pretty good already. I have been out three times last year and have a specific spot but if yours is different I’m happy to look for you. Please send me an email or post yours…mine J O N C A L 1964 at yahoo. Maybe this is the year.

        • yahoo? ok, stranger. i’ll start composing a very long email- i’ll lay the whole thing out with pictures, and a couple of links. look for it maybe friday or saturday.

      • Hi Leigh

        I have responded to you before, I follow your blogs and know your general area in Yellowstone area….I would like to communicate off-line with you. If you recall I had an old boss in Phoenix with same name and she was such a great human…sorry it wasn’t you!

        I am going there in the next month or two depending on snow and weather. Looks like from the webcams things look pretty good already. I have been out three times last year and have a specific spot but if yours is different I’m happy to look for you. Please send me an email or post yours…mine is : J O N C A L 1964 at yahoo. Maybe this is the year.

  13. So when and where is the Fennboree this year? I would really like to meet with everyone. Thank you, James

  14. Had to vent JDA & felt better after until someone states again there is little chance of them not finding the treasure.

      • No!
        You go way over the edge in emails.
        I’m not sure you know the difference between reality & your world.

        • I assure you I know that my world is in fact reality Jake. I just wanted to make sure that you know that I I have nullified out bet JDA

          • Thanks JDA,
            It’s smart for both of us to nullify the 2K bet between us.

            Nothing good can come from it either way.
            Besides, I wouldn’t take money from you, maybe lunch but not money, especially that much.

  15. Oh… the giddy feelings of an early spring search filled with wishful anticipation. Oh…the empty realization that the dream was not real.
    The long ride home…wait…what?

  16. Just thought I’d checK in and appears some newbies are stirring the pot. IMHO. Really enjoy reading all the different discussions. looking forward to making my first trip to my search area this May. Will continue to check in occasionally on you guys.

  17. Freshly freed from “moderation”…This new post at MW 3/22/17…

    Here is the update that I have been hoping to see.

    Forrest may not feel like there is a comfortable way to update his, “within 500 feet,” and, “within 200 feet,” comments (which are rather dated) but he is a very, very creative and deep thinking man.

    So he says, “I think the gold -will again- become alert to the tromp and -vibrations- of hiking boots.” says it all.

    Thank you Forrest!
    Thank you Jenny for hosting this update (and -possibly- writing the question)!

    Can’t wait to go trout fishing. Do they bite when the water is warm? How about very, very warm?

  18. “I think the gold -will again- become alert to the tromp and -vibrations- of hiking boots.” says it all.

    Doesn`t this statement contradict the…not in close proximity…comment?

    • You ask a question with a reference to an incomplete quote without context or reference to where we can see it for ourselves.

      And so the answer is– maybe.

  19. Not in close proximity would mean off the beaten trail. The kind of place that you would want hiking boots. Consistent and true.

    • After years of working beside my grandpa, being able to “think like him” comes pretty naturally. Just like my grandpa on super-creative steroids. Best wishes to you, Jake.

  20. Maybe I was just over-thinking Forrest’s statement about making (2) round-trips from his car in one afternoon. In my mind I was thinking how the distance from his car could have been as far as 4 or 5 miles. But that’s too far for him (or anyone) to walk in one afternoon. 16-20 miles is WAY too far to walk, right? Well, not if he went from his car and then over to a horse or ATV. Then that distance would be very doable.
    But then I realized that line-of-thought is comparable to an oxymoron or Catch-22. Sure, he could have done it that way. But if he did do it that way, then why would he have to make 2 round-trips? The answer is simple. He made 2 round-trips from his car in one afternoon on foot. And with that, a likely distance of no more that 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile each way was feasible.
    2-3 miles total walking distance in one afternoon I believe is the maximum distance he could or would have went. Just for food for thought for anyone else who may have been thinking along those same lines.
    All this is obviously IMO.

  21. The trove has been in hibernation for seven years, it’s about to be awaken once again, the only tromps and vibrations that the trove has felt were that of Mr Fenn’s the day he put it in there. ” Yes the gold will again become alert to the tromps and vibrations of hiking boots .” No one has been closer than 200′, but soon will be, and Mr Fenn knows this.

  22. Can’t you just give JDA, Sparrow, myself and a few thousand more eternal optimists chasing around in the frozen wilderness a few days to enjoy our good, “vibrations?”

  23. Dear Fennexperts (my name for all of you who know all things Fenn), Here is a challenge question. Why breed(s) of dog was Skippy? When did he depart this earth? How many years did ff have him to share the bonds of love and friendship? Where did he get Skippy? Where was he buried? The time clock is running…

    • So, I asked the above questions out of the fear that I accidentally found Skippy. I thought that by knowing the answer to these questions, it would “put my fears to rest.”
      Any info out there???

      • Egg on the face has no taste but feels terrible none the less. Without the books, how would I know that Skippy did not have a tail. Glad to know that the bones that I found were -neither-

  24. I have been pondering the way Mr Fenn spells knowledge. He spells it knowlege, which I assume is a clue. What if we split up the word and make it know lege. So what do we know lege is?
    It can be an awe inspiring person.
    It can be several places in France.
    To allege or assert.
    But my favourite is a quote from Moby Dick.
    Ex lege naturae jure meritoque. Which translates to:
    Out of the law of nature by right and merit. The translation isnt a clue but the fact it is in the book is.
    This fits with one of my solves nicely. Ask yourself why Mr Fenn had his book signing in the MOBY DICKens book store.
    Did I read correctly somewhere that while signing books he asked people where their warm waters halt was?

    • I don’t think Forrest spells knowledge without a D every time. I think he was making a point within the context of the phrase on the buried jar or bell.

  25. Regarding FFs latest post at MW:

    Will someone kindly post Forrest’s exact quote saying he hid the treasure Chest at least 8.25 miles north of the “northern border of the city of Santa Fe.”???????

    Just for everyone’s reference. PLEASE!….I can’t find Forrest stating north of Santa Fe’s north boundary.

  26. “Put in.”

    I was raised in Texas, as Forrest was a few decamiles north, and water was rare and precious. The creek was a destination. A water body that could support a watercraft was special, and getting a watercraft into the water was a challenge. “Put in” was a place to find.

    But in John Coulter’s day, the river was the road, and “put in” was just the opposite. It was where you could safely land your watercraft in a place that promised resources.

    so. Does “put in” mean get into the stream, or get out of the stream?

    that is a question

    • Running rivers today, you can put in at a take out, and/or take out at a put in.

      Take in and put out, however, are horses of entirely other colors.

      K

    • Since the poem tells you to “Take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk.” I “Assume” that put in means to get out of the water. Just my opinion. JDA

      • I read it the other way, JDA (though I see the sense in yours).

        IMO, because it’s “too far”, putting into the river below the HoB saves distance and effort.

        It draws a map, and then suggests a route (f’r’ex: “It’s about 20 miles of bad road from there, so your best bet is to skip it and put in at this spot down here.”)

        K

    • FWIW – as a deer hunter here in the North lands, to “put in” when walking means to get off the trail or road you are on – to go into the forest. In my opinion, that’s what is being talked about in the poem. I think the canyon and water allusions/inferences are in the poem to help you get your bearings in the right area of the wood to “put in”.

    • Joseph – it’s my simple understanding that ‘put in’ means both putting in to land from a boat, or putting in to water from land.

      ..i could be wrong though, but that’s extremely unlikely given that i’m always right about everything 🙂

  27. I’m finding the hardest part of this whole thing to be the period of time between a confident (reasonably so, at least) solve and BOTG.

    Dal, assuming someone finds it before me and further assuming that you will be involved in some fashion with the reveal, can you try to allow a week or so between confirmation of it being found and the full reveal of the solve (assuming there will be a full reveal)?

    If someone beats me to it, I’d like to at least have the satisfaction/bragging rights of posting my solve prior to it being openly revealed.

    I was looking at zoomearth today and there are fresh tire tracks near the parking area for my solve.

  28. With all the talk under WWWH about being buried or out in the open I would like to throw out my two cents worth. IMO definitely not buried on in a body of water. “Brave and in the Wood” relates to the toys are forever in TFTW book. First chapter- does that make it important to be first?? only ff knows. If hidden under a juniper bush it would be well hidden to a passer buy on a Sunday outing, but would be found if you knew where to look. Under a ledge or overhang is a possibility that I am considering as well as a crevasse that someone mentioned earlier (WWWH). How about in a hole behind a rock??? that would be a good way to hid it as well.
    I just wish that someone would find it real soon– a “I told you it was REAL” for my wife and for me to get on with my life.
    If I’m lucky we might make a road trip this summer with a side jog of “treasure hunting”.
    Good luck to all… Be sure to carry your bear spay and don’t go around sticking you hands in places where you can’t see.
    Imagination is important to finding Indulgence, but you might not make it back home without a good dose of common sense.

  29. Well, we made it to April, so that’s some progress! Hopefully snowfall in the Rockies is starting to wind down now and the big melt can finally start to get into full swing so the Chasers can get chasing. Here’s some velvet fog for you to enjoy in the meanwhile:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1fgtTJ3TPE

  30. Why do painters paint, or writers write?

    “The faintest ink is better than the best memory.” – Old Chinese Proverb

    Would make a great slogan for a tattoo parlor too 🙂

  31. A new feature on Google Maps…

    You can now play PacMan, yes that’s right… PacMan.

    Next to the Map/Photo toggle button is a new PacMan button. A nice little diversion! -:)

    • Even if true, can you please explain what the heck this has to do with the search and why we must all waste our time with such a nonsensical post?

  32. The Albuquerque Film and Music Experience (AFME) is occurring at the same time as Fennboree this year AND they are screening Matt Maisano’s film called Fenn’s Searchers. Those of you at Fennboree last year may remember Matt’s crew who were filming and participating.

    The film will be shown at 5pm on June 8th…the evening before Fennboree gets underway.

    If you’d like to find out more or buy tickets…click on the link below:
    https://www.abqfilmx.com/films

    If you’d like to watch the film’s trailer click on this link:
    https://vimeo.com/135409178

  33. 60 Minutes today explains my addiction to being connected here.
    Great article.

  34. Hi Dal,
    I’m new to the search but have thoroughly enjoyed your many exploits. Because you have not only shared your experiences with everyone but have done it with such finis, I wish to thank you and hope to see more. Since you have a huge head start on everyone else it is a very good possibility that you will find the TC before anyone. On the other hand if someone miraculously were to find it before you, I would ask this; What one item from the chest (not the bracelet) would you wish to be sent to you to remind you of the Chase? Please post this so your fans, and there are many, may see this in case they happen upon the TC before you.
    Michael De

    • MD,

      I think that’s a great and very appropriate question. Dal deserves a “piece of the action” considering all of his hard work and putting up with some of the dumb questions I ask him off line.

      Dal, on kind of a related note, I would like to suggest You consider a different topic for discussion on the blog. That being, what question would you ask Forrest AFTER the chest is found?

      Example, on the inside covers of TTOTC, there are photos of an F-100 having to do with a “minor accident” dated 22 Oct 1958. Can you please explain where/what happened and why you decided to include it in the book since that date precedes your Vietnam tour, Gernmany perhaps?

      Or, please explain why several of the date stamp dates and the related day of the week in TTOTC conflict with each other.

  35. on february 4th, 2017 in 6 questions on Jennys site, f is asked

    1Q) Even today, after more than six years of people searching, and after all the news coverage, articles, and stories written about your secreted treasure, some people are just learning about your Thrill of the Chase treasure hunt and getting involved. It continues to inspire. Do you have any advice for these new people? How should they begin the search six years after so many others? Do you feel they are at any disadvantage?

    he answers: “No, fresh eyes and new thinking might provoke a winning idea. I would advise new searchers to look for the clues in my poem and try to marry them to a place on a map. It seems like the longer one thinks about the search the more they complicate the problem.”

    Definition of problem
    1 a : a question raised for inquiry, consideration, or solution
    b : a proposition in mathematics or physics stating something to be done

    2 a : an intricate unsettled question
    b : a source of perplexity, distress, or vexation
    c : difficulty in understanding or accepting I have a problem with your saying that

  36. Imagination isn’t a technique, it’s a key. There in lies the problem. When a person relies upon their imagination, it can run amok… causing actual truth to be distorted with desired truth. This has more than likely happened with me and my desire to finish the Chase. And without an exogenous anchor to keep my thinking grounded with what is real or what is imagined, I feel my intellect has come as far as it can in this endeavor. But that does not mean that I cannot help bring it to a close.

    I believe that I have come up with valuable information concerning my last trip out west, and without a solid reason to keep searching, I seek to share everything I know, with you all. It is my hope that something within this mind of mine may be of use to a few of you, and possibly help one person finish this and return Forrest’s bracelet back to him. I may have to sacrifice my mother’s legacy to protect his, but every person must do what they feel is “right” in their soul.

    It will take about a week or two to write it all up. If you thought the Trouble With Confidence was long…

    What to expect?
    I’ll be attempting to explain the Little girl in India, The Omniscient Guru’s success, the nine clues (or the majority of them), the unintended clue in TFTW, the dead person keeping a secret, Forrest’s environmentalist friend’s Ranch near Santa Fe, and how all of it links perfectly to ONE SPOT. Oh! and I almost forgot to mention the circled “X”!

    To be fair I will post it on all three blogs (if I can figure out all the html coding for picture embeds). I also promise no dog measurements this time 😉 Feel free to laugh at or insult my thinking when you finally read it… it won’t hurt my ego 😛 stay tuned…

    • Iron Will,

      I will soon be heading out on my first real search having only started this thing last August, but even though I have high confidence in my solution, as you apparently did, I’d be foolish to think I’ll come home with the prize. Perhaps some will ridicule me for not thinking positive; complete my mission at all costs. I’d rather be disappointed and learn from my experience, than give up. That’s not in my genes!

      We are not quitters. Forrest didn’t “raise” (teach) us that way. I guess what I’m saying is think about it for awhile before publishing all your hard work. You might regret it and I’m sure none of us would want to see that happen. You’ve given so much.

      That said, if you decide to do just that, then I, like I’m sure, the rest of Dal’s and Goofy’s community, will accept your thesis and then dissect it as if undergoing a postmortem, not because we relish in your disappointment, but because we truly are interested in your thoughts, your logic, and what you may have learned.

      Again, please think long and hard BEFORE publishing your solve. PLEASE DO NOT GIVE UP. You do owe it to yourself.

      Respectfully…….. pinatubocharlie

      • Thanks for the kind words, but those reasons are no longer mine to decide. Fate will have to intervene, and I just don’t think that’s going to happen.

        Will

        • You have to be your own man and I respect that. Please take care.

          Pinatubocharlie

      • Pinatubocharlie,

        I wish you good luck in your search. There are many reasons searchers quit the chase, financial reasons, promises made, what’d to try something different and now it’s time to move on. Some have never even traveled out to look but have only want to help others in their quest. Iron Will has had many thoughts and ideas on where this poem take us and have respected his thoughts.so I just want to say …

        Iron Will if you have come to the point you feel it time to through in your gloves, I can respect that. I for one knows it’s hard to quit, but it doesn’t mean you can’t still participate. Save your solve and maybe throw out pieces as time goes on. Maybe even over time other things might click to aid you in your solution.
        Again there are those who have reasons to stop and us as fellow searchers must respect that and let them do what they feel is right on how they want to leave. Good luck to you Iron Will no matter what direction you choose. Bur

        • Many misspells, sorry but you know what I mean. Need to proof read my auto corrects next time. Bur

          • No biggie. I understood what you’re trying to say. If I were FF, saying all this would be monumental…but I’m not. I’m just one of 100’s of thousands of searchers who thinks his/her information is important. But without results, it’s just the imaginings of an alternate reality. A person can only get out of that reality by “releasing” it. However if you remain there too long, you will become somewhat insane(in a cognitive reasoning way). I’ve seen it beginning in the looks of co-workers and family. The pity they project. I have to stop my reputation from worsening in their eyes, and this is the only way I know to halt it. It will all end up as it was meant to. After all… it’s Easter 😉

        • Thank you much Bur.

          To quote Lee Trevino, a great professional golfer; “The more I practice, the luckier I get.” He said that after holing out an almost impossible shot back in the 80s if memory serves, but I may be wrong.

          It’s hard to beat that quote, except I have learned the more I research and follow leads, the more I find.

          And good “luck” to all searchers out there this year.

    • I’m surprised you would divulge your solve after one campaign Iron Will. It seems that tenacity will win out in this challenge as Forrest intended. No winning solve will be had in one attempt or one campaign. Only reveal your solve it you know for well it is wrong. In my humble opinion of course good sir.

      • Maybe it’s the nature of my solve, but I don’t see myself going back to the same spot if my first search of it turns up empty. Tbh, I don’t know if I’ll take another search trip anywhere.

        For me, it’s a bucket list thing – hunt for the treasure. The finding of it would just be a bonus.

        And none of my solve is anything that hasn’t been discussed in pieces and parts in various places… So why not post it if my specific location is a dud in my mind (post-race)?

    • IW,
      Isn’t Cynthia in your search state? Maybe you two (or someone else) could come to an agreement and she be your search partner if she isn’t looking in your area and likes your solution. There is the page for looking for a partner. Just thinking of a way for you to stay in the Chase. Forest said to never give up, never give up, never give up.

      • Hang in there I.W. If you got that much solved you might just need to fine tune a little.have you ever seen the picture of the stork and the frog ,the stork has the frog in his mouth and ready to swallow but the frog has the stork by the neck.Don’t give up !!! Don’t ever give up !! Step back use that imgenation that Mr Fenn awaken in us all!! Like you I thought of just putting all the cards on the table too and let the chips fall where they may but no no no I am not given up no way.

    • You write up a good teaser-trailer, IW! I’m looking forward to reading your solve when it’s ready for posting! 🙂

    • I look forward to reading your write-up, IW. Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts and your work.

      Best,
      JAKe

    • Hey IW, just wanted to say I think you have an awesome attitude. Whoever finds this thing will have made their share of mistakes and I hope they will own them just like you are doing. But it takes even more character to step up and eat that humble pie with a smile and pie filling running down your face. Whether or not you continue on I just wanted to say, good form my friend, good form. But why do I feel you are the type of guy that will be right back up on that horse sooner rather than later?

  37. Iron will, Would it be a better choice to discuss your solution with Dal before sending it out to thousands of searchers? If the solution you have reached is a logical choice, wouldn’t a large group descend upon the location and possibly start an confrontation that might get ugly. Once again I refer to man’s nature to want what another has. Be wise as you move forward with your decision since many are reading your blogs.

      • Seeker, you’re probably the last 1 on here with a right to comment, ‘ol keeper of the armchair knowledge.
        Did Iron W crash & burn? Duh!

        Now I am afraid it looks as though the pendulum is swinging too far the other direction

        Besides, don’t you have to go outside to look up at the sky?

    • Well Michael the same could be said about my Trouble With Confidence write up. People thought the same thing… and they did descend upon that location. No one died, and that piece of earth is still there. 😛

      • IW, It sounds like you’ve been at this a long time. Me not so long so I have the perspective of a new searcher. We all have within ourselves a level of tolerance for all things. When that ends we must move on to something new. I hope you can find a partner to trust so that you can complete this phase of your life and move on to some new challenge. The very best of luck in what ever you decide. Look forward to your circled X if that happens to be your final decision.

      • IW,

        I have read many post-search accounts and was curious to read Trouble with Confidence and have a few comments below, but I did not read any comments by other searchers so there may a little duplication. And I am in no way trying to rub salt into an open wound. So I hope you accept this as constructive criticism.

        Compared to you I am a newbie to the Chase and because of my familiarity with Yellowstone I decided it would be my area of focus. Shortly after starting the Queen Elizabeth gold coin immediately caught my attention. I’ve hiked there in the past and after several hours of fitting clues to that location, I asked myself, why would he want his bones here? There’s nothing special about it at all, though it is pretty. There are hundreds of places more beautiful than Queens Laundry in Yellowstone and more easily accessible to a guy 79-80 years old.

        That’s a question I continue to ask myself for every new location I begin to research.

        So if you do publish your latest solve, I’d be curious to read about any lessons learned from these two searches, though I suspect you may have been out more than that.

        But don’t be too hard on yourself and take your time.

  38. Iron Will,

    If it comes down to a matter of trust; listen to what your ‘gut’ is telling you.

    • Yes I did Clint. However, perhaps I am both the Stork AND the frog. The stork being the false reality of my imaginings of everything in the Chase, and the frog is what’s left of logic and reality, grasping for any possible reason to keep from being lost to the stork’s insanity.
      Everything is relative to the way we choose to see it, and in the Chase… that’s the biggest problem.

  39. The Chase can be many things but if you’re not having fun you should probably go do something else. I know some people are hardcore and they’re not out there to have ‘fun’ but the minute you no longer enjoy what you’re doing it’s time to take a break.

  40. pdenver,

    Thank you for sharing the beauty, my friend.

    One can read the poetry that has been written within the depths of her art.

  41. Here’s my fortune cookie that I got today:
    “HIDDEN TREASURES WILL BE FOUND, WHERE LEAST EXPECTED”!

    Unfortunately it didn’t say I will find it. LOL
    Anyway its very true. It would have been found by now if it were hidden where it is “EXPECTED”! Keep your thoughts and eyes open when you put BOTG.
    Honest good luck to all, May it be found this summer.

  42. A TTOTC exercise for searchers: Draw a line from Santa Fe NM Northward toward the top of central Montana where the last mountain above 5000 feet is located. What is the name of that mountain? While I don’t believe that this mountain is the actual HOB I do believe that FF is aware of it and would like to see people off their couches and exploring these areas while they are still available to us. Now follow the line southward. What places above 5000 feet and below 10200 feet are named on that line as well as mentioned in FF’s life travels?

  43. The end is ever drawing nigh……….
    I don’t think Forrest ever said the back end, as most assume. Perhaps, the (front) end is ever drawing nigh…..
    Food for thought.
    Good luck, all.

  44. This was originally posted today by Anthony on “Be Careful Out There”. I copied it to here because I think it’s very good information and this is a place where it is more likely to be read…
    dal-

    ——————————-

    Beware its spring turkey season in all the states for the treasure hunt. Here’s the hunting dates for each state.
    New Mexico Apr-15 through may-10
    Colorado Apr-9 through may-22
    Montana Apr-9 through may-15
    Wyoming Apr-1 through May-20
    When a turkey hunt is going on the hunters wear camouflage and won’t have any bright colors on and when there set up while calling a turkey in they will have a camouflage mask on. A turkeys eye site is real good and they can see brite colors that why the mask and also the hunter will be real still and will be hard to notice.

    Stay safe, be prepared, let others know where your going and be aware of what’s around you at all times. Good luck.

    • Dal,
      What happened to that self- described ‘grammar Nazi’ ?

      I can understand how smartphones are always butchering our mutterings, but “turkeys eye site”, maybe it would behoove the turkey to get online & check the hunting webSITES

      I sorta know the difference between the usages of; their, there, and they’re…my excuse (typo’s) is I never learned how to type.
      As you mentioned of late, I hope you do, finally have WWWH pinned down, 6.5 yrs is a long time for an undergrad… goes without saying, if in fact you are correct, it’d be wise to keep it to yourself

  45. I didn’t really look this up but I heard that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. If your method of searching isnt working, do something different … or risk going insane.

  46. I have looked up the definition of insanity in many many different dictionaries. So far it seems they have the same definition. I’m going to keep trying though and see if maybe one of the obscure ones has something a bit different.

  47. Has anyone given any thought to the possibility that there just might be more than gold and jewels in the chest? A deed maybe? Some rights connected to San Lazaro Pueblo perhaps? Go ahead get your thesaurus out. Make my day. Is the Chase a vehicle for finding a person with raw problem solving talent required for the archeology of that site? Ponder that.

    Title => Deed

    • What you are proposing lacks logic my friend. It Forrest’s intent was to try to come up with someone with the problem-solving skills necessary to solve a problem at San Lazaro, why would Forrest sell San Lazaro half way through the chase? As Spock would say, “Not logical captain, it is not logical”. JDA

      • JD,
        What is going on with your user name? [all the sudden you have added an s]

        Is it like a notch, or tally system…every time you come back from a search you’re going to tack-on another?
        Just messing with you/ curious if you were going to put your email out there again (has it changed?), in case at some point I want to get in touch

    • What of Forrest’s comments – paraphrasing – I’m thinking 100 or even 1,000 years down the road. – Sorry it just doesn’t hold water my friend. JDA

      • You have no basis to argue the point. You don’t know what rights f has at SLP. You just don’t know.

          • I am not privy to the specifics. But I do know f said “we” have the thief at SLP on camera. That suggests he has maintained some connection even after selling the property. The only way I see this being resolved is for someone to open the chest and find out for themselves.

          • I’ll have to go back and find the statement. I don’t recall it pertaining to San Lazaro Pueblo. The “we” could be a partner, but I understood it to be something different.

  48. Iron Will, may I politely suggest that you consider “taking a temporary break”
    from this chase, while maintaining the option to get back into it if/when the
    time to do so seems right?

    Good luck with everything in your life, and thank you for all your postings,
    writings, etc.

    P.S. I honestly believe the TC will be found this summer (2017).

    • Thank you for your thoughts, I am taking a very long “break” from the chase. But that doesn’t mean I cannot put everything I’ve learned out there to possibly help someone out. 🙂

      • IW,

        I, for one, am looking forward to learning about your recent adventures. I think we share a similar search area, and even if our search areas are not the same, there is always something to be learned from an unfinished ‘solve’.

        As I am a relative newbie to the search, you are one of many superstars in this arena.

        Best regards,

        –Fennatical

  49. I just got back from a work trip to Virginia and I’d been carrying my copy of The Thrill of the Chase in my luggage. When I opened it just now I found this tucked inside the cover:

    https://goo.gl/nk28Un

    They were snooping for clues! They could have left it anywhere, but I found it neatly tucked inside like a bookmark 🙂

      • That was my thinking, too. They could have left it on top of my stuff, or on the side or something. Inside the book was a little invasive. Maybe it was someone who’s heard of Fenn and was curious.

    • Lol Jeremy… I never put my book in my checked luggage you never know who might be looking in it and what if it got lost !!! I keep it in my carryon so I can read it above the clouds while I try to cover up cities with my thumb. lol. On my Flight today I was in seat 9F!!!!! 🙂

    • WOW! That’s crazy!

      “Raiders of the Lost Ark” has the Nazis,
      “Goonies” has the Fratellis,
      “DuckTales” has the Beagle Boys,
      and The Chase has the T.S.A.

    • ..and Home of Dal has ‘the Goofy’

      but shhh, don’t tell him i sai[BANNED!!!]

        • Dal – when you say ‘scenic’ do you mean ‘oh that’s a lovely Australian geographical mountain range’?

          ..or do you mean ‘oh that’s a lovely highly venomous snake slithering towards me rather too rapidly’?
          🙂

          • I think everything in Australia is trying to kill people also. New Zealand is next on my list for international travel! I don’t believe their steaks there, right? LOL

          • yes Heidini, we are all strict vegetarians over here – so it might pay to bring your own steaks when you visit

            & no, we don’t have snakes here – they were all eaten by the many large feral dragons which roam free, so don’t worry
            (are you a fast runner? 🙂 )

        • Finding the treasure dream- go to New Zealand and rent a little motor home and sleep on a beach and wake up to baby penguins!

          • Uh, isn’t that kinda how “the Walrus & the Carpenter” starts?

            Poor baby penguins . . . .

          • Super neat that you mentioned it but totally unintentional on my behalf. One of my friends woke to penguins on a similar trip. I just wanted to repeat their trip. It’s interesting that it goes back to Alice in Wonderland.

  50. Some have said those with the clues in stanza’s 2 – 3 & 4 are wasting the rest of the poem as filler.

    I see the clues as specific places and detailed things at places that if followed in a path you could drive, swim, wade or walk. You may have to walk to see heavy loads, water high & the blaze.

    The clues I see in stanza’s 2 – 3 & 4 are more detailed smaller areas, way points and/or paths to get you closer & eventually the blaze.

    I see many hints in the other stanza’s but are not small specific areas but are there to help you with the clues just like the hints in his books.

    1st stanza:
    “my treasures” = MT = Montana, where the treasure is – The Treasure State.

    “my secret where”
    “where” is also used right after “Begin it” & only there.
    “secret” That’s what this is all about including the poem & his bathing spot & only he knows except for his spot in the Firehole near Ojo which is no secret now & he did go alone in there.

    What are the letters to the right & left of “secret” in the poem?
    WY
    Now you know where to begin & finish.

    Am I just filling a whole in my mind?
    Doesn’t seem like filler to me.

    I’ve got many other hints in all the stanza’s but just don’t cut it for leading you to the treasure.

  51. Two weeks to graduation.
    The Top Gun Trophy is still up for grabs. The score is tied. Time for the big one.

    Are you up for this Maverick?

    Just a walk in the park.

    • your “software” has a major glitch in it…and the graduation date has yet to be determined. There is a basic game called Ace of Aces you may want to freshen up on before calling out any real players…

      • Actually, not to brag, but I have at times developed software with zero defects. It’s what war fighters deserve. Now …

        the plaque for the alternates is down in the basement. And there are no points for second place. Best of luck.

        • Haha… “software with zero defects”. Now we KNOW you’re telling the truth! 🙂

          • Icman…my job @ NATC Pax River was to iron out all of those non- existent defects once they got put into the field. More than 30 types aircraft and none were 100% w/o tweeking. I hear a lot of noise…

  52. I just wanted to mention that I did finally start reading “The Catcher in the Rye” by J.D. Salinger again this afternoon, at Forrest’s endorsement (in his book TTOTC).

    I said this before somewhere else on this blog, but when I last read this book, it was required reading in high school and I absolutely HATED it. I think the reasons behind this opinion were mainly: 1.) I was being forced to read something for a class, and 2.) I was already surrounded by a surplus of annoying, angsty teenagers and did not need to read about more of that stuff.

    I just wanted to mention a few things about this book so far. First, I am finding it an enjoyable read now in my more mature mindset (:P). Second, this book reads quite quickly! Seriously, I got a third of the way through the book in just a couple of hours; I guess I may finish it this weekend. It’s a short book, but I think Salinger’s conversational/stream-of-consciousness writing style also just sort of flows. And thirdly, heck if I don’t recognize Forrest’s writing style from TTOTC pulled directly from this book. I think Forrest liked this book so much that he modeled his own writing style on Salinger. Look at the end of 3rd-to-last paragraph in chapter 10 (page 84 in my version of the book) and tell me that that does not evoke Forrest’s writing style to you!

    Anyways, just wanted to throw that out here that I gave a book I previously hated a second chance and ended up liking it. I hope Forrest can at least give Gatsby a second chance as well. If he keeps his expectations low enough, maybe he’ll like it on a second go! 😉

    • Got about 2/3’s of the way through “Catcher in the Rye” this morning and it’s a hoot! I’m still enjoying it quite a lot. What’s more, at the end of Chapter 18 on page 156, Holden goes off on one of his tangents specifically talking about “A Farewell to Arms” and “The Great Gatsby” almost exactly mirroring Forrest’s “Fine Literature” chapter in TTOTC (although Holden says that he likes “The Great Gatsby”). I mean, I knew that Forrest liked Salinger’s book a lot, but did not realize the level of influence it had on him. It’s adds a whole extra layer of interest in reading this novel for me!

        • Just finished reading the book this afternoon while resting my legs after a very nice (non-treasure-hunt-related) hike up in the foothills. I give it a final score of 2 out of 2 thumbs up! Thanks again for the recommendation and inspiring me to read this old classic again, Forrest! 🙂

  53. A VR documentary producer would like to go out with a searcher tomorrow in NM. If anyone would like to take a professional cameraman with them please let me know ASAP dalatlummifilmdotcom
    I’ll put you in touch with the guy..
    Only if you are going out Sunday 4/23 and only in NM…

    Sorry for the late request…
    Thanks

  54. Can I assume that by now all searchers know that Ojo Caliente is Spanish for “warm eye”?

    I => Eye => Ojo
    Warm => Caliente

    And there’s one in NM and another in WY? I thought so.

    • i like your angle Iceman, one which i wasn’t personally aware of. but take care when separating foreign phrases, as they can often mean something entirely different as individual words.

      ..and don’t worry about Fennatical, he’s just grumpy coz his bicycle is old and squeaky 🙂

      • Ojo Spanish superstition ~ Belief in the evil eye, or mal de ojo, is a culture bound syndrome in traditional Mexican and Central American culture. According to the superstition, this illness results from the perception that some people possess innate strength, the power to harm those without this advantage.

        ~In Latin American culture, “mal de ojo” is caused when one looks at another with envy and it is believed to inflict injury or bad luck. Mothers are especially wary of evil eye and protect their infants by having them wear bracelets, like this red-beaded one from El Salvador.

        Your right CH, ~”…foreign phrases, as they can often mean something entirely different as individual words.”

        “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, **Latin**, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f”

      • Seeker

        please reframe from (pre-maturely) dancing around a camp-fire whilst fanatically waving a plucked squawking chicken about the local area, willy-nilly
        ( ..i mean, you might accidentally take someones eye out or something.. )

        fact still remains that, to the best of Hobbit Kingdom GMT (which is globally legit btw ..sorta like Pay-Pal)
        ..no-ones found it yet, right?

        so,, until that magic moment happens, ya all fair game for teasing i reckon – firm but fair

        (apart from Focused – he’s Cool for Cats in my book 🙂 )

        • ( ..which only cost him a small daily fee of $3.50 btw – incl t-shirt & bumper-sticker 🙂 )

          ..just sayin’

        • Can’t dance around the campfire?? Well, ok, those are wise words… one should never play near fire…
          Safety first, right?
          salutem primum

        • Hobs-
          That’s just funny. I laughed so hard and every time I think of that the image you painted with words It takes me back there again … a full size wild chicken flinging wind up toy … No need for batteries … just post an idea on TTOTC and see it spin into a frenzy. Priceless.

    • In Northern New Mexico parlance, ojo also commonly refers to a spring. As in water coming up out of the ground…not the season.

    • While your literal translation is correct, it requires context. In this context, Ojo Caliente translates to “hot spring.” And, although “caliente” as an adjective could be used for either “warm” or “hot,” most traditional Spanish speakers use either “calido” or “tibio” for “warm.” The hot spring drains into the Rio Ojo Caliente, and thence into the Rio Chama, either at which confluence, I suppose, warm waters could possibly halt.

      t.

      • Toby..I’m not sure what you mean by a literal translation but if you look at a map of New Mexico, you will see many springs referred to as “Ojo” with a proper name following. “Ojo” becomes a geographical and topographic description. But, the word ojo can be both literal and poetic, based on context, and we might have a bit of fun with word play. Eye -> I-> ojo ->aye. Ojos that eye have encountered are mostly cold springs . In my solve, its all about the eyes.

      • Toby..I’m not sure what you mean by a literal translation but if you look at a map of New Mexico, you will see many springs referred to as “Ojo” with a proper name following. “Ojo” becomes a geographical and topographic description. But, the word ojo can be both literal and poetic, based on context, and we might have a bit of fun with word play. Eye -> I-> ojo ->aye. Ojos that eye have encountered are mostly cold springs . In my solve, its all about the eyes.

  55. The little Girl from India for me has turned out to be a very important tool/clue if one would look into it a little further…I think that it’s probably the biggest clue that Fenn has laid out there for us. And, it means exactly what it says…. And further more, it’s certainly a good test to see whether your solve makes any sense or not.

    • The Little Girl IN India. I also believe I know exactly what it means, as it correlates to a spot on the map. That’s part of what I’ll share with you all about my last trip and the information I’ve put together. It’s gonna be about 3 weeks though. I’m doing a video instead of a write up so it’s easier to just put the links on the three main blog sites. I’m working the next 8 days 12 hr shifts so I’m too tired to make it at the moment. But I think it will be “eye opening” to possibly fresh ways of thinking about everything. I’ll even share four spots ON SITE that I should’ve checked, but didn’t (because of the flu and being sick) that may help anyone out who’s close by and want to investigate. I’m too poor to fly back out there so, this is my only other option of helping to bring about a conclusion 😛 Stay tuned about Mid May.

    • This is really nice, SL. Since beginning the Chase, I began wondering what things I may have missed before I began. My family and I have learned to look, and my husband found either a piece of an arrowhead or a tool. I believe I had found a couple things. Discoveries of all kinds are truly amazing.

      • PDenver…Speaking of backyard treasures and art on another SB thread recently, the Anschutz Museum of Western Art is in downtown Denver. A significant part of that collection was acquired from Mr Fenn’s gallery. It is perhaps the finest collection of Western Art anywhere…its free unless you want the docent tour which I would recommend. I won’t give it away…but keep your eyes (ojos) open.

        • Thanks, Sandy! I’ve never been to that museum and may have to check it out sometime (in spite of its incredibly limited open hours of 10:00am – 4:00pm on Mondays and Wednesdays only?!!!).

          • And…fir fun, the museum is across the street from The Brown Palace, in historical downtown Denver. I plan to go again…the foundation is continually adding to the collection.

        • Thank you so much for this information, Sandy! I greatly appreciate it. I had no idea about this museum. I rarely go into the city, but this sounds like it would be wonderful to see.

  56. Last night I dreamed that I was looking down at a small green pool of a spring. I looked down and saw a box. Then I reached down and picked it up. That’s all I got this time.

  57. Has FF ever mentioned how he would get his remains to the location after he passes away without giving away the location of the TC?

    • Aaron-
      Forrest’s plan after he was told that he had terminal cancer and that he only had a short time left to live was to head to the hidey spot while he was still able and end his life, on his own terms, in that place. When his cancer went into remission he abandoned his plan of taking his life and of using the hidey spot as his death bed. Since he no longer has terminal cancer he has no more idea how or when he will die than you or I. He has told us that he no longer plans to ever return to the hidey spot.

      • I know that the TC is not in a cave, but I am wondering if any searchers have done research on caves as they have related to FF’s known interest subjects and professional acquaintances? If so, you may see a clue.

        • There is a cave at Wedding at the Waters, just south of Thermopolis. It’s in the Wind River Canyon/Big Horn Canyon. Thermopilis is home to free public hot springs. And it’s in Hot Springs County. There were ancient artifacts found there. It’s also an awesome place to fish for Brown trout. It’s Chase eye candy if you ask me.

    • “Is the chest hidden in the (exact) same spot that you would like your bones to be found, or is it a short distance away for reasons beyond your control? ~ Phil”
      “The spot is the same, but in less than two months I’ll be 84 and that means many of the things to which I once aspired are no longer available to me. I still anticipate, but I may be unable to grasp such a transient pleasure before my trail shows signs of growing too weary for the journey. To make that success would be the boldest move I ever made and to that end I just want it all the more.f “

      • Q: Are you willing to say whether the place of the treasure chest is the same as the one where you had previously plotted to have your bones rest forever? “Yes it is. f”

        Question: If this were true, then why the need for a lawyer to answer all of the possible scenarios? If it was the same place, then you would only need one answer, not five.

        • On the above observation, I am speaking about the chest being found on different lands.

        • What is your “only one question” you think needed answering?

          The point to visiting a lawyer, I would assume, has many reasons…
          1. He ruined the story by not having to die. So, that change the discovery of a body with the belongings/personal property/ treasure.
          2. The challenge itself. Possible liability factors. Which now the treasure became a trove.
          3. Direct passing of the chest to the finder. In this case I think the chest is more a time capsule {which would fall under different laws}
          4. Possibly, a type of last will and testament. So future family generations can’t claim the trove from the finder.
          5. What if there’s no legal question about the location and finding… consulted a lawyer to double check that assumption.

          The original thought was to simply “take it with him.” The challenge may have never occurred if fenn didn’t get better… or didn’t have time to prepare the ‘challenge to the general public.’
          Remember it was 20 plus years to finalize the “plan” of the challenge under present/recent conditions… “Indecision is the key to flexibility”?

          • Gotcha!! You’re going to beat me to the chest yet, Seeker. Thanks, I never thought about that. 🙂 In the past there was no chase, not until 2010. So, it would have automatically have gone to his kin folk.

          • Seeker / Gordon – the issue of the chest being returned to family members instead of the finder keeping it had to be a big issue for f and I am sure was a significant issue to discuss with his lawyer. Of all the places that this issue might be addressed, I think it is in the poems’ last two stanzas. Some see these as clues, I see it as legal manuvering – and depending on the day, sometimes it’s both… still waiting for the chest to be found and see how it plays out.

          • JCM,
            I don’t see how anything in the poem could be usable or viable for a court order decision or defense of. For a legal matter, the poem is too ambiguous to be determined by law.

            However, as I said earlier… it would not surprise me that the personal bio, and hair strands explain the legal points evidence. Having those personal belongings and proof of, changes a trove as, no ownership, by definition, and passes ownership…{ IF told in the bio or other document within the “jar” or chest…The book and the poem by themselves don’t do that.

            Also because of what I call; a time capsule, because of the undeniable personal affects found in the jar.

            All an opinion…

    • dal is absolutely correct, though I also recommend you watch the Academy-Award-winning documentary film “Weekend at Bernie’s 2” for more insight on this subject. 😉

  58. I apologize if someone has already mentioned this – I am behind in my reading on this blog. On the T.V. show “Better Call Saul”, one of Saul’s clients said: he collects bottle caps. And the client mentioned that: the exciting part is the hunt. This show takes place in Albuquerque. I thought that was funny. I believe someone on this show is a fan of ff.

    • Hi Golden Retrievers, we watch that show, too. Last time we drove through Albuquerque we stopped and had lunch at Los Pollos Hermanos (Twisters) and afterwards went and found the salon where Saul had his office in the back room. After watching the show on tv and then seeing those places in person, it seemed very weird, but fun.

  59. I am a Development Assistant for a production company based in Los Angeles. We are looking to feature some of the most serious and dedicated people on the hunt for Fenn’s treasure on a docu-series. If you think you would be a great fit reach out to me at afrancis@anvil1893.com.

    • As with many XKCD comics, the roll-over text is the funniest part! Thanks for sharing!

  60. Mr Fenn has used many different numbers but the use of”to” , “too”, and “two” seems to outnumber all the rest. Two books to find his treasure. Two books at Borders, two borderline biddies, two toys found at his burnt down house, two arrowheads, two sisters and so forth. Two trips to hide the treasure. Does anyone else see a pattern? Use the imagination. Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.

    • Michael;

      That is “TOO” much for my brain “TO” contemplate. Can we limit the choices to only “TWO”? JDA

      • JDA, do we need to be hit over the head with this clue by two baseball bats to see what he is telling us? Two times shot down etc.

        • You bring up an interesting point. The three forms of “TWO”, too, and to ARE used quite frequently.

          I was just having fun.

          Do you have any theories or ideas as to why so many TWO’s? What do YOU think that Forrest is hinting at?

          I personally have no idea. JDA

    • Too Far to walk but someone has been within 200 feet of the treasure. 2,too,to two. Page 2 and the thrill. Two hours of soaking in the hot springs. and on and on too many to mention.

    • Hello Michael DE. In regards to the ‘Two books to find his treasure,’ this may be true, but, I believe it’s important to realize that it was “The Thrill of The Chase” book that was first written/published, a few years before “Too Far To Walk.” Would this still be considered as “two”?

    • (Second try.) In regards to ‘Two books to find his treasure,’ this may be true, but, “The Thrill of the Chase” was published a few years before “Too Far To Walk.” Should this still be considered as “two”?

      • To my knowledge, Fenn has never added TFTW to the “good research” list…but, you never know.

        • “Too Far To Walk” has the map. I believe I’ve read or heard that there are hints in it, too.

          • I’m not positive, but I think it was mentioned on the video Toby filmed, and Dal transcribed for us not too long ago.

        • Moby Dickens Book Shop Nov 2nd, 2013
          (38:42) “There are clues in my new book that can help a person”
          (43:50) “There are no clues in this book -too far to walk- but there are hints”

          Go figure.

          • Yes I do pdenver.
            I also think there are hints in some of his other writings.
            I don’t think that the title of his book tftw is a hint, that would not be subtle for me.

            River Bathing is Best seems to give you an idea WWWH.
            “Sometimes I stayed in that place for two hours or more and when I decided it was time to leave I’d back a couple of feet downstream where the water was cold. That gave me instant incentive to climb out and sun dry in the tall grass that populated the river bank.”
            http://www.oldsantafetradingco.com/blog/river-bathing-is-best
            ” where the water was cold”

            He never tells you where it is but if you follow his bike ride 20 miles from West Yellowstone, you end up at the green geyser pool.

            Maybe that’s why MH has been having those nightmares.

          • I wasn’t too sure if you did. It seems many feel Mr. Fenn’s swimming hole is the clue for “Where warm waters halt.” I know when I began the Chase, I felt the same. Is the Green Geyser pool located in West Yellowstone or in Yellowstone National Park in Wyoming? I tried to look up the information, but I couldn’t find it. Who is MH?

          • 2nd Try http://dalneitzel.com/2017/03/19/odds-n-ends-about-fenns-treasure-hunt-25/#comment-227422
            http://www.oldsantafetradingco.com/blog/river-bathing-is-best

            FYI ALL…
            FF Quote captured from source of recent River Bathing Is Best link post which may be obscured online…”If I had money, I could walk a mile to the Union Pacific Railroad Station where the attendant would give me a towel and let me shower for fifty cents. That was an enigma because I had a job washing dishes at the Totem Cafe and was paid an hourly wage that was identical to what I had to pay for a shower that lasted only ten minutes. And after I worked another hour I needed another shower. I never quite reconciled that math.” f

      • pd;

        I would say no. Forrest once said, “There are nine clues in the poem, and the clues are in consecutive order. If you want to find the treasure chest – you have my book there – I’ll tell you how to do it. Read the book just normally … the poem and the rest of the book, and then go back and read the poem 6, 8, 10 times – study every line, every word. Then after you do that, read the book again, slowly, with the idea of looking for clues or hints, that are in the book that will help you follow the clues. You can find the chest with just the clues, but there are hints in the book that will help you with the clues.” f

        This was published before TFTW, but he says “you have my BOOK (singular) there…” NOT tou have my BOOKS there. I Do think that there are a couple of minor hints in TFTW, but do not feel that what is found in TFTW will help a lot. Just my 2 (TWO) cents worth – JDA

          • True…the map is in TFTW. But Fenn has always stated that good research materials are the poem, TTOTC, GE and/or a good map. This has been discussed over and over as you are probably well aware. TFTW does give good insight about the man that hid Indulgence, for what its worth.

          • It is my personal opinion that in the preface to TFTW, when Forrest says that a 10 mile float is “Now too far to walk” that he is telling up outright that TFTW = about 10 miles – a BIG hint! – JDA

    • For myself ,I discovered 2 clues in each of his 2 books that IMO have, in part, helped me get to the decision to go and search. I am trying to plan to go and search in the next two weeks. Hard to get travel plans organized.It is just under too far to go for me , though I have considered it worth the try. It will be an interesting trip non-the-less.

        • I too am planning a two day trip within the next two weeks. Maybe the two of us will meet at WWH. I’ll look out for fellow searchers when I arrive at the location. May need some gloves and a big brown stetson if this weather doesn’t change.

          • Could very well happen lol. I am coming from Canada. I decided to drive instead if fly.

      • Aw Jake, that’s cute. Tee time is at 19:49 hours and I was hoping to meet Sam Snead but he passed in 2002.

        • The static electricity is all over the place.
          What do you think the double Omegas mean to him?

          • I had to look it up even to know what an omega is. So , with that research applied, I would say IMO that it means ‘ going home’; the end? It is all that I can figure. It is at the end of the book

          • Maybe he will do a SB with an Omega lol. I don’t really have an idea what it symbolizes in his book. Horse shoes or rainbows for all I can guess.

          • I look at it this way Alsetenash.
            Some writers in the early days just used 1 Omega at the end of their writings which means the end.

            He has 2 Omegas at the end which I think is original.

            If one means the “end”. The other may mean the “beginning”.

            Obviously the one that means the end was bumped to the end (right) by the new one at the start as if every typing in English starts from left to right.

            So, now you have a beginning & a end.

            I think it means that the 1st clue is identical to the last clue in F’s mind.

          • Thanks Jake. I can see what you mean and it could very well be that meaning. I just have no idea really. Do you think it applies to first and last stanzas in the poem?

          • I sort of remember I read somewhere where FF mentioned that when he was writing the poem the words suddenly or as if magically appeared on his monitor screen? Do you know of that or know where to find that ?

          • Ya, I could only find comments from others referring to it but no actual quote from him. I’ll keep digging, it is Saturday after all. I wonder if it is on MW blog. Double omega may be a parallel refererence in a sort of way. It’s peaked my interest.

          • Alset;

            I have believed for a long time that the basic architecture of the poem is a circle. I believe that “In the wood” of stanza #6 loops back up to “In there” of stanza #1.

            Once you determine what “In the wood” means – substitute that meaning for “In there” in stanza #1.

            Suppose “In the wood” means forest – the simplest definition – then “As I have gone alone into the forest and with my treasures bold…”

            In my solve, I have about five different definitions of “the wood” – therefore, I have five definitions if where “In there” is – these five different definitions take me from a global view of where the treasure is, to an EXACT location of where it is hidden.

            A long explanation to a short question – sorry. Hope this helps – JDA

          • Thanks JDA. I think along the same idea as a circle. Contiguous or consecutive can be a circle also, or of any form for that matter; not just in a straight line concept. His use of the Omega symbol at the end of his book is sure different. I never read the book so I didn’t know about it. I can see what you mean of words flowing together within the poem as if they come around together cyclically, though independent of each other . This can be and is done in any form of writing. Though walking it is not being the same as writing it doesn’t mean it is not applicable. IMO.

          • Jake, after giving it some more thought, I think that rather than meaning a beginning and ending, I believe the double omega symbolizes 2 endings. Forrest faced, and came to terms with, his own death once already when he was told he had terminal cancer and first thought up the Chase. He ended up getting a second lease on life and knows that some day he will have to come to terms with his own death once again. That’s two distinct endings and therefore two omegas.

          • Blex,
            I have thought about the Omegas in the same line of thinking as you stated.
            Two different outcomes of the same idea…
            The original thought of taking his own life at his special place and then ruined it… then adding the challenge to that first thought.
            Two endings of the same.

            I wonder if “indecision is the key to flexibility” is what fenn meant by this.

            Fenn was also asked about the double omegas and answered {paraphrasing} That’s a secret he’ll take to the grave with him. Or imo, this might mean the second omega reasoning… He tells us of his original plan, ruined it, and now is waiting/living for that plan/second end, to become reality.

            I’ve often wondered if this has anything to do with how the poem was written. Two can keep a secret if one is dead… fenn felt like he left a part of himself in the chest… symbolizing the first omega?

            Just thoughts….

          • Double Omega’s are at the end of both treasure hunting books TTOTC & TFTW, & Seventeen Dollars a Square Inch book & in Scrapbook 50.

            I would like to know where or what material is on the page where the double Omegas are in Seventeen Dollars a Square Inch.
            Anyone with the book?
            It’s probably posted somewhere but my search is coming up empty.

          • Seeker, I wouldn’t be surprised that Forrest likes using the double omega because it works on many different levels to symbolize several different things personal to him.

            Some have posted that looking for double omegas in the landscape may be a key to finding the treasure. I’m not sure if I buy into this idea. My main line of reasoning is that nature is chock full of curvey omega-like forms EVERYWHERE! In the curves of rivers & streams, ridgelines, valleys, forest edges, lake shores, etc. Look at the elevation lines on a topographic map and there’s nothing but omegas. And then on top of that, there are man-made features likes roads, trails, pipelines, railroad tracks, etc. that typically follow topographic lines and form their own omega-like curves.

            Of course, maybe the blaze is a double omega?

          • Blex,
            You talked about the possibility of the symbols… I also think fenn’s word choices can be looked at the same way.
            Example off the top of my head;
            Contiguous, touching, neighboring.
            Tangent; In inmediated physical contact, touching.
            Halt; a temporary change in course {think along the lines of marching forward and stopping temporarily}
            Tangent; An abrupt change in course.

            Now just for fun lets look at what we think are clues…
            Begin where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, not far, but to far too walk…
            warm as in liquid water moving horizontally, changes course {halt, temporarily, contiguous, in consecutive order} vertically, then continues horizontally again… taking into the canyon down. With not far, but too far two walk as elevation as a factor.

            Sounds like a waterfall, right? Are these {after the fact} words given to us for thought?

            Maybe the symbolic reasoning is more about why a place is special, held in high regards, respected than being just physical references of landscape… Fenn did make a pact with a waterfall… who knows?

            Could the double omegas have reverence of one place to another? and only connected by the “symbol”

            “I looked up words, definition of words and changed them. Went back and rebooted… it turned out { the poem } exactly like I wanted.”

            Could the “tangent” of going off on different lines of thinking { out of the box } come into play… sure. Could it also be that fenn used the word for suggesting we think about how he uses words that most don’t really know the full usages of… I say it’s very plausible…and not unlike the poem in my opinion.

            Just more tangent thoughts.

        • Alsetenash, you might be referring to this answer to a Q&A… MW’s by Jenny.

          There is an appropriate quote in the Duveen biography by Secrest: “They never knew that it was the chase they sought and not the quarry.” I see my memoir as being a story that was ordained by some unknown hand. It came to me at age eighty as though my entire life had been waiting for that moment. The bulk of the book was written in six weeks and phrases that I had never thought of before, suddenly appeared on my computer screen. I said in the forward that the book wrote itself. I had written seven books before this one, and it seemed that none of the lines crossed where they were supposed to, metaphorically speaking.

          I don’t feel qualified to give advice but a few ideas that I would like to say have guided me are:

          Stay in your job only if you love it.
          Get out in the mountains and turn a log over to see what’s there.
          Avoid those things that distract you from your self esteem.
          The key word is contentment. If you can find it, everything else has already fallen in place.

          • Thanks Seeker. I just found it then saw your post. You are quick.

            “I see my memoir as being a story that was ordained by some unknown hand. It came to me at age eighty as though my entire life had been waiting for that moment. The bulk of the book was written in six weeks and phrases that I had never thought of before, suddenly appeared on my computer screen. I said in the forward that the book wrote itself. I had written seven books before this one, and it seemed that none of the lines crossed where they were supposed to, metaphorically speaking.”

          • No problems… when I read your post I just remembered where I saw it…
            I personally like: “I said in the forward that the book wrote itself. I had written seven books before this one, and it seemed that none of the lines crossed where they were supposed to, metaphorically speaking.”

            Sounds a bit contiguous in thought…

          • Haha. Gotta love the rabbit holes of thought on a Saturday. Something to Muse over:

            “By far the best account of Joseph Duveen’s life in a biography that is rich in detail, scrupulously researched, and sympathetically written. [Secrest’s] inquiries into early-twentieth-century collecting WHET our appetite for a more general history of the art market in the first half of the twentieth century.”—John Brewer, New York Review of Books”

            And…

            “They never knew that it was the chase they sought and not the quarry.”

            Hmm…chase, quarry, whet….

            Rabbit holes? Imagination? Doubling up on meanings and word usage? IMO.

            Yep, what’s up doc. Lol

        • Before Arabic numerals came into use, the letters of the Greek (and Hebrew, and other ancient) alphabets did double-duty as letters AND numerals. So the first nine letters were also used as numerals for 1-9, the next nine letters stood for 10-90, etc.

          In that system, the letter OMEGA was also used as a numeral for 800.

          K

  61. JDA: That bring up the question, Did FF write the Chase before or after hiding the chest? The book was published in 2010 and he has said that he hid the treasure in 2009 or 2010. So did he write the book(s) with clues included before or after he hid the treasure? We all know it takes time to write and publish a book. IMO he decided on the hidey spot, wrote the book and then hid the treasure knowing what extra clues he could add to the book(s) that would augment the 9 clues in the poem. There seems to be only one place where TOO many clues come together. IMO

    • Michael DE;

      Here is a quote that might shed some light:
      3Q) ” In your memoir, The Thrill of the Chase, after the poem, you mention there are subtle clues sprinkled throughout that book.  You have said you hadn’t deliberately placed these subtle hints in your book; but have you done so in any of your other writings mentioned in Question two (scrapbooks, vignettes, etc)?  Or, even if maybe not purposely sprinkled in those writings of Q2, would you consider some of those to contain subtle hints too, like in The Thrill of the Chase?
      I don’t want to broaden the clues and hints I’ve written about by pointing them out. What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.”

      “You have said you hadn’t deliberately placed these subtle hints in your book;” Although this part of the quote is said by the interviewer, it is NOT contested by Forrest. This then implies that the poem came first, and that Forrest then wrote the book, and DID NOT deliberately sprinkle clues in the book, but that they are there. That is how I read it. Is that how you read it? JDA

      • I think FF has said more than once and I’m paraphrasing, “Don’t mess with my poem.” IMO he not only “hints” in TTOTC but basically comes out and tells everyone where to go. The clues in the poem are reinforced multiple times throughout the book(s). It is this childlike simplicity that has confused so many when the formula is KISS in the solve. IMO

        • Ya, I agree. IMO, when I read he mentioned have a kid read the poem , I read the poem again and again from at best I could from that point of view. IMO, cartoons are not relative.

    • Michael De,
      Fenn stated it took 15 years to write the poem…The bulk of the book took 6 weeks. Seems to me the book came after hiding the chest and writing the poem….

  62. JDA; Ten miles? seriously. Try strapping on 30lbs. and walking 2.5 miles one way. I’m leaning towards 200 feet from the vehicle. Assuming a drive to and from the hidey spot. Time for lunch and packing up, then unpacking carefully so as not to damage the contents. A little reflectiom time then back for a second trip. Even a mile from the vehicle could offer confrontations of people and animals he would rather not see. IMO

    • Michael DE;

      We are talking about two entirely different things. My TFTW is from wwwh to the place you “put in” below the hoB. In my solve, I drive this distance, not walk it. I then drive past the meek place, to the END place – a bit short of 10 miles also.

      I then park my “sedan” and then hike – for the first time. I HIKE a certain distance (less than ten miles I assure you)

      NO WHERE does Forrest say that he HIKED this distance though. He says that he made two trips, and that they were made in one afternoon. He could have hiked it, in SOME places he could have taken an ATV, or possibly he could have ridden a horse – WHO KNOWS? The only info he gives is that it was “Less than a few miles” see link

      http://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-with-forrest-talkin.

      Good luck and TRY to STAY SAFE JDA

      • That’s not the only info, though. He also said he took a “sedan”. That leaves many possibilities, still, but also makes others unlikely. It’s less likely that he trailered up a horse or ATV. Nothing ruled out, but many things harder to make a case for.

        • A Ford Bronco or a SUV still meets the definition of a “Sedan”. either one capable of pulling a small trailer with an ATV or a one-horse trailer.

          A “bit” more of a problem, but not unsolvable.

          What if horses were available from a “Dude” ranch nearby. Don his fishing gear, rent a horse, and say he wants to ride up to Lake “Somewhere” for the afternoon. Possible?

          JDA

        • Correct. A sedan does not leave out high clearance 4 wheel drive vehicles such as a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Now, who do we know that owns or did own one of those?

    • Mike, he has said, “not far”, but “too far” to walk. And, ” If you are walking long distances looking for the treasure, you are walking “‘too far”‘. If you have to walk “too far”, and walking long distances is “too far”, then you have a long walk. Also, don’t believe JDA’s two trips in ONE afternoon, lol. Horse yes, one afternoon, debatable.

      • Why debatable Charlie? In a Q & A session, Forrest said: Q. “Were both trips made on the same day/date?
        A. I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.” f

        Not sure Forrest could have been more direct. Why do you question it? JDA

        • As some have mentioned here, the hiding of the chest & goods may have started in the morning & done in one afternoon.

          I think this opens up the amount of miles he walked.

          • Do you really think he slept in his car or was the trip so close to his home he could arrive there early in the morning so he could walk all day hiding his TC? IMO he drove at least a small distance and then took the afternoon to make the 4 legs needed to secure the treasure. Think 80 year old as he stated more than once.

          • No M DE – I don’t think he slept in his car.
            I think he got up early in the morning like he would normally do to go fishing as most.

            I think he may have drove to Bozeman with the treasure to stay unnoticed to do some fishing on the Gallatin for a week or so & hide the treasure.

            Drove for an hour or 2 from Bozeman, parked & hiked between 1 & 3 miles. I’m not going over a 12 mile hike total in one day with him.

            “The person who finds the treasure will be the one who solved the clues in my poem and walked to it.”

            No horse, ATV, donkey, drone, car….
            WALKED TO IT

          • Jake. My take on this is that he walked one mile from his start point to where he hid the treasure. So 2 trips from his car gives you 4 miles.
            Fits with his comment about his teacher not knowing the difference between 2 square miles and 2 miles squared. The key is to knowing where his start point is.
            All in MHO of course.

          • Definitely within his capabilities at the time as he stated John R.

            Then again it could be more.

        • Up and leaving his car, riding a horse, at 5:30a.m. Arrives at his area at about 7:00, 5 miles by horse. He stages area a bit and leaves at 8:30a.m. Arrives back at his car, gets some more things, heads back out at around 10:00a.m. Arrives at his area again at 11:30a.m. Finishes up and leaves at 1:00p.m. Arriving at his car at 2:30p.m. Total round trip = 20 miles, doable easy by horse. He made two trips, and was done in one of those trips AFTER NOON. Not one afternoon, but one trip AFTER NOON. Very doable, shows long distance, like Jake has said. This keeps open the possibility of:
          1. Walking long distances( like what he has said you need to do)
          2. A full day of activity, and not one AFTERNOON.
          3. Do you really think f gets up late? He has even said he gets up early, why wait to take the chest in the AFTERNOON, when you are up at sunrise? Leaving AFTER NOON, shortens his day out in the woods.
          4. I’m not questioning it, I’m informing that there is other ways to look at it. Instead of the one, illogical way, you are looking at it. Really, two trips in one AFTERNOON? Ask yourself, is that really Forrest? Rush to complete in one AFTERNOON? Or enjoy the day out in the woods?

          • Charlie,
            What about; the first trip he took the contents and on the second trip took the chest? ~ “It was heavy enough that I took two trips to hide it. I took the gold in one time and I took the treasure chest in the second time.”

            Doesn’t that kinda eliminates any other means of transporting the chest… if a horse or atv or a bicycle… why the need for two trip if any other transportation was used was used…

            As far as time of day?… how long it took him?… in the summer?… maybe there’s a reason for afternoon.

          • You hit the nail on the head Seeker.

            Why would you need 2 trips if using another form of transportation aside from walking.

            “The person who finds the treasure will be the one who solved the clues in my poem and walked to it. ”

            Walk & hike are the same?

          • Seeker, I’m not saying that is the way it was. I’m just throwing another scenario out that is probable. It could account for a longer distance. Adding his weight along with the chest and it’s contents may work a horse up a little much. Especially if 20 miles. I’m no horse guy, maybe someone could correct me as far as a distance a horse could go. I don’t think atv’s or the such could be used since he comments so much on walking. And of course his quote, “if you are walking long distances looking for the treasure, you may be walking too far”, or something like that, it seems it’s in a place that does not allow motorized vehicles. My thought, of course.
            I just don’t see f doing this all in one afternoon. Waste of a day for him. He may have even started out earlier than I suggested, I was just giving a 9 hour trip. (you didn’t notice the trip time?) Just JDA is so hell-bent on reading that statement one way, that timing just seems so “not Fenn”. As far as I know, the horse rode f, I don’t know, but putting an after noon time line, and thinking of a distance in that time frame, is just wrong. f said it, we have to walk a long distance.
            Believe me, I put 40lbs. of clamps in a 10x10x5 box here at work and walked down the street . I’m 6’1″ , 225, and that was a heavy walk. That’s less than a mile. I’m sure others have done it, sucks. My opinion, f didn’t carry 20lbs. for some distance. And not in the afternoon, in summer, up a mountain.

          • I would think walking a few miles with 20 lbs in a backpack would be doable.

      • Another quote on 6/19/2014 “I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.

        JDA

      • Yea FF most likely took one of those two trips after noon in one day! he probably started the other trip in the morning on another day!

        • Good ol’ WoodyBogg. Haven’t seen your name for quite awhile. Cheers.

    • Michael – if i had $1 for every time i’ve strapped 60lbs on my back and hiked into the mountains for several days at a time, i’d have approx $30 to date

      so 22lbs for a few miles should be a piece of cake, even for a strong 80 year old male

      never under-estimate the strength in determination 🙂

  63. The second letter of the Hebrew alef-bet is, (interestingly, called…….’Bet’. It stands for the beginning of a man’s journey.

    Another aspect of the #2 is that the Hebrew root of two = tooth.

    Numbers , IMO, play very significant roles in TTOTC.

  64. A thought…
    With all of the talk about book/books…clues/hints etc. it brings to mind what exactly is a “subtle hint”. Taken separately, subtle seems to suggest by definition something that is cleverly contrived/not obvious. A hint by definition is an indirect suggestion or a “clue”(oh boy). Put these together with Fenn’s clear statement that the “subtle hints” were not deliberate, it becomes a little less likely that the hints are loud and clear statements about specific miles(TFTW), or place names, or specific locales. To me, this situation seems to indicate that after hiding the treasure Fenn wrote his memoir that include stories about himself and some of the more memorable experiences that shaped the man. It stands to reason that it is possible that the “subtle hints” are related to the man and how he thinks, and why he has done some of the things he has. Personally, I do not think he has written specific words that directly point a searcher in ANY direction whatsoever or directly spells out what or where a clue is. I believe the “subtle hints” are thought provoking only.

    • I like “an indirect suggestion” and “I believe the “subtle hints” are thought provoking only.”
      I’ll add, after the fact wordings and comments as well.
      I just posted an example that kinda fits your post, in case you didn’t read it;
      Seeker on April 29, 2017 at 9:29 am said:

      Well, in my mind it does anyways…
      Good thoughts Ken..imo.

      • Exactly…I had not read your post yet, and yes, I agree. Nothing he says or writes is direct or specific in terms of using it for actually searching for the treasure. The more solves sent to Fenn, the more he is going to have his way with searchers. Everything he hands out is mind candy for the overly eager. I think I understand why he has been so prolific lately…He is having a freakin’ blast watching and listening.

    • Hey-O, ken –

      Nothing is certain, of course, but I am in very close synch with where you’re going here.

      The one bit in TTotC that I feel any confidence at all in as a hint is near the end, where ff drops in the old butterfly-flutterby trope.

      The one possible “hint” that I spent time considering was Tea with Olga. Anyone who’s done much map-searching at all with that chapter in mind will notice that you can’t throw a boot at the ground anywhere in the Rockies without it landing in close proximity to at least two of Red, Black, or Green buttes, canyons, rivers, cliffs, etc.

      If it’s anything at all, that would be more clue than hint. Still a nice story, though. Maybe my favorite in the book.

      To go with your citing ff’s “subtle hints”, I’ll repeat this bit o’ fenn to reinforce the position:

      ” . . . read the book again but slowly, looking at every little abstract thing that might catch up in your brain, that might be a hint to help you with the clues.”

      “Subtle hints” and “every little abstract thing”.

      I’m with you, bro’. In tight focus.

      K

      • key word…abstract. Not saying that that is THE key word, but in this thread “abstract” seems to rule out a lot of common areas and ideas attached to them. It is refreshing to see that someone is looking @ these small things with a keen eye and not looking for things or places that Fenn has outright mentioned. Those things are not so subtle in my book.

  65. OK, so once again.
    There is microcrystaline wax in the chest sealing the jar.
    Wax melts when it gets hot.
    Therefore, breaking the seal & exposing to the elements.
    There are forest fires & brush fires throughout the Rockies every year.

    Wax is insoluble in water.
    Does not break down or dissolve in water.

    The jar is glass & when heated or cooled too fast it will break.
    Raging fire around the chest & starts to rain heavily.

    I think the chest must be protected away from trees, shrubs & soil where they can grow where fires will eventually destroy them & the jar & wood lining of the chest.

    Swamps dry out & not a special place for you to pass.
    Water or rock seems to be at the spot.
    I like the rock as the blaze & the water as the protection.

    JDA, is your hidey spot still in trees?

    • Jake…your thoughts about the wax/glass, wood lining etc. have been on my mind for a long time. You have echoed what I believe to be pertinent in that respect. These thoughts have helped keep me away from certain areas and have directed me more toward certain other geographic locations for chest security reasons. A heavily wooded area without the protection of water or large rock protection, wood certainly spell DOOM for certain parts of the chest and contents. Good points for sure…
      And just out of curiosity…what exactly qualifies a place to be special? From a personal stand point, I have quite a number of special places I like to go to/think about, that would not necessarily stand out to anyone else. This may be another “sticking point” that has thrown searchers off in a big way.

      • I don’t think a swamp is special to him.
        We have a pretty good idea of what a special place is for him as he has told us many times.

        Yes, DOOM for some of the contents in the chest if heated to 200 degrees or more.
        I am sure he thought of that.

        I think wood ignites around 300 deg but not enough O2 in the chest for that.

        Rock & water it is for me.

        • water boils @ 212 too. The special place warrants more talk…couldn’t it be as simple as a place he was checking out one time that he was curious about, and then some time later sold a piece of art for a million and thought, wow! ? Maybe…same scenario but something more personal changed for him that had an impact one way or another. Truthfully Jake…it could be very simple and “not” something he has made mention of.

    • Question posted 6/26/2014:

      You have mentioned sealing a bottle that is included in the chest with wax. What was your reason for doing this? Were you concerned merely for damp conditions or is the Chest hidden in water? ~ Izcajun

      Thanks for the questions Izcajun.

      When I was ready to put the olive jar that contained my autobiography and two of my hairs in the treasure chest I studied the lid. It was made of tin coated steel, which is not easily oxidized in air or water. Over time those characteristics can break down.

      Although I am not ready to say the treasure is not in water, I certainly didn’t want moisture to enter the jar. So I melted a chunk of microcrystalline wax to the point that it started smoking, which meant it was at its thinnest viscosity. Then I dipped the jar in the molten wax deep enough to cover the lid and part of the jar, and held it there for several seconds. I wanted the wax to seal the threads on both the lid and the jar, but I didn’t want the heat to break the glass. After it cooled for a minute or so and the wax hardened, I repeated the process two times, increasing the wax thickness on the lid. The wax was petroleum based and won’t evaporate or deteriorate. When cold, it becomes brittle. That’s why I wanted the threads on the lid and jar clogged.

      All I know are the facts, if you want the truth go next door to the psychology department.f

      Wood by one definition means an area between a treeline and an open area… maybe the place is above the treeline and protected by lack of burnable material such as rock… Also, imo, the part of this Q&A might have answered the day long question “in water” ~”Although I am not ready to say the treasure is not in water, I certainly didn’t want moisture to enter the jar.”

      I wonder IF he did just say it.
      If I {fenn} was standing at the chest, I {he} would see…
      Might elevation come into factor where he could see all he sees?
      Many areas in the four stated have treeline within an easy accessibility / hike… not too high, not too low, but in a Goldilocks zone, if you will.

      • Thanks Seeker,
        Glad to see you didn’t poof out this morning.

        I have been reading that statement for a couple of days.
        I find this very interesting from the wordsmith.
        “Although I am not ready to say the treasure is not in water,”
        Notice the word “not” is twice & I see that as a 2 negatives & 2 negatives equal a positive therefore nullifying “not”.

        I see “Although I am ready to say the treasure is in water,”

        • He already said, “It is wet” – that told me long ago that it is in water. How much water? Now that is the $24.00 question. JDA

          • The $64,000 Question is an American game show broadcast from 1955 to 1958, which became embroiled in the 1950s quiz show scandals.

          • JDA,
            You have changed your mind again?
            I thought you said it’s in water & then said it’s not?
            Then it’s in water again….

            That one item in the chest can wax out a lot of places.

          • I’m assuming we can mess with all the other statements, not the poem. pdenver

          • I’m not sure what you mean, Jake. In your statement, two negatives doesn’t make a positive unless the numbers are multiplied. I had thought the same as you when mentioning two negatives makes a positive. It is true that he has stated not to mess with the poem, and I believe there is a reason for it.

          • Yea I know he said it Seeker but there are plenty of places in the Rocky’s that are dry.

            You do know wax melts at a fairly low temperature & there are forest fires all the time in different places in the Rocky’s.

            Seems obvious to me that anyone with a solve where the chest is close to anything that burns is POOF!
            I smell wax & hair burning…..

          • Seeker, quick question: Did FF say the chest is wet verbally in an interview or was his response sent in by writing it in an email?

          • Thanks pdenver ! Interesting description flow of his words. Specific descriptions, a said regret of something said, then of the interest by people. I think sometime post interview, he corrected himself about pinion nuts? Did he ever specifically say what his regret of saying was? Or is it generally assumed the regret was in his correction?

          • You’re welcome. I don’t recall him saying what he regretted saying. The pinion nuts was stated in error.

          • Oh ok, thanks again pdenver. IMO, it makes me wonder if there was a regret hint stated and the correction of said correction was realized post viewing of interview after release. Perhaps otherwise it could have been corrected prior or during interview. Probably been discussed already here but first time I have seen the video.

        • IMO Jake. One is objective and the other is subjective. So, not a double of the same equaling as an opposite. Not saying I am right , just I don’t see it that way and offering my opinion. The chest being in water is risky IMO. Water is the greatest natural power for changing landscape over time. Just saying.

          • Alsetenash: “The chest being in water is risky IMO”

            There is risk either way.
            Why would the chest be wet in Feb?

          • Jake. “Why would the chest be wet in Feb?”

            FF had said- “Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet. f.”

            I just don’t think it is directly in water. I live in an area that experiences all variables of the 4 seasons, though I am not an expert in physics. I interpret by your question that you are of the mind that the TC can only be wet if it is exposed to a consistency of water as a liquid form 24/7. IMO. Exposure to rain, snow, atmosphere mist, humidity ,carbon dioxide, tree mist, plant mist ect, all contribute to a wet presents. That is physics. So yes, I believe it can be exposed to wet 24/7 according to physics-January through to December and not be submerged in water. Being in the RM’s accentuates all forms of wetness according to physics. Nature is still moist under the sun no matter the month. IMO. It s possible it is close to water or continuously bombarded by the flow of water. I just don’t think we need goggles to see where it is. IMO

          • Im pretty sure, as far as logic goes, both negatives need to refer to the same action to become a positive. Not “ready to say” and “not in water” are just two nots in the same sentence. For example if I say “I am not thinking Im not Chinese” it doesn’t mean Im thinking I am chinese…I could be thinking “I want pizza for lunch” which is also something besides “not being Chinese”. Two negatives in the same sentence are usually just two single negatives….though many politicians, speech writers and spindoctors take advantage of the illusion created by people unable to discriminate the difference.

          • And then, there is always the “Middle of the road” approach. Some would say (as I once did) that it HAD to be IN a creek, or fairly large stream.

            Others say, No, it has to be on dry land.

            How about the middle road. What if it were somehow in a very small stream, rill or rivulet? It would be “WET” per Forrest’s prediction, and yet not face the perils inherent in it being in a larger stream that faces torrential run-off every spring, or after a heavy rain.

            My Buddhist teachings tell me to “Seek the middle road”, and I think that in this case, that that is good advice. JDA

          • Any idea is open . He was going to put his body with TC, so I add that to the parameters of thought about wet. IMO, in this thought realm of wetness, perhaps the spot is same but not exactly the same as originally. Maybe the change of circumstance to action of hiding the chest is different from the time by only a few feet of the original spot. He was going to put his body with the chest . Would he be in water or in a creek to that end? I just don’t see it logically according to his prior plans. Unless he changed the exact spot in the same place. IMO. Water is main theme. A carcass in water contaminates the water. Whenever we saw a animal carcass in the waterways we would pull it out so as not to contaminate the water supply. IMO.

          • Alsetenash: “A carcass in water contaminates the water.”

            I think you do not understand nature.

            Your contamination leads to sustenance.

          • Jake. Yes that is true. Oceans, lakes, rivers are full of the cycle of life and death in them. What I am generally saying here is this as an example: I been to the mountains here lots and know people that live in mountain communities. They get their water from streams, lakes and aquifers. We would be up a mountain for a days leisure. Whenever we came upon an animal carcass we would pull it out of the streams or creeks. We pulled moose, dear, elk ect. We would have to use our trucks to do so because they are heavy. They would break a leg and drown in the water. This was common practice by the locals for it would contaminate the water supply -lakes,streams ,aquifers ect. It is about parts per million of contamination. What of a disease from a carcass harmful to man or animal? Besides, my other point is would he place his body in water to his end? Doesn’t match what I read about him and his plan, unless I am wrong in comprehension. IMO.

          • I think you’re talking about contamination for humans.
            I don’t think it’s an issue for wildlife.
            In fact it will expand wildlife.
            Human remains or wildlife.

        • As for the consideration of the chest being wet (in water?) and the jar being waterproof and protecting the contents while in the water, don’t forget about f’s discussions about the $1000 and $500 bills almost going into the chest and the dragon bracelet that went in.

          It is wise to consider all the things in the chest (or that might have gone in) and the effects of ‘moisture’ on them as related to the chest being ‘in’ water.

          • Zip-Lock baggies can resolve any of those issues. I would not put much weight on the premise of deciding where the chest may or not be relative to whether a $1000.00 bill would or would not of lasted – yea zip-lock bags! – JDA

          • Then why microcrystalline wax for the lid of a bottle and ziplock bags for the others? Why not just stick the autobiography, hair samples, and anything else that went into the bottle in a ziplock bag?

          • If there is a Ziploc baggie in the chest I will puke.

            Just doesn’t fit the other contents.

          • I believe that Forrest said that he “Thought” about putting a $1000.00 bill in the chest, but changed his mind. He DID put in the autobiography and two hairs, he wanted to be SURE that they would survive 1000 years or more. Would ziplock bags last that long? I, myself, am not sure. Forrest MAY have put almost all of the items in the chest in zip-lock bags, including the jar (as added protection.

            Forrest has said, that the finder will be pleased with the top two items. If they are NOT in zip-lock bags, how can he be sure what the top two items are?

            Putting items in baggies would allow him to stack items, whereas without them, what is on top? Today, yesterday, tomorrow? Just a thought. JDA

          • I cant even believe anyone would think there are or is Ziploc bags in the chest????
            Ziploc bags melt to & I will go out on a limb & say there is nothing synthetic in the chest.

            Think about it Zippy.

          • Why puke Jake? It just makes sense to me. Think about the gold dust. Did Forrest just pour it on top of a bunch of other items? I doubt it. What about the smaller nuggets? Wouldn’t it be smart to put them in baggies? What about the diamonds and other gems? Doesn’t it seem smart to put them in baggies?

            Sure, it might be prettier to open up the chest, and NOT see a bunch of baggies, but from a practical point of view, it makers sense to me. JDA

          • What is this natures shrink wrap machine when it gets hot?
            Baggies???

            You have lost your mind JDA.

            Now I smell plastic burning in the chest stick to everything.

          • JDA, if I remember correctly, wasn’t the gold dust in a glass container, which was shown in a scrapbook not too long ago?

          • Dry wood burn at about 350 degrees, paper at 450, plastic {bags} melt at 250, glass about 2600… even if the wax melts, the jar still has a screwed lid. Aluminum melts at about melts at 1200 degrees. Even PVC pipe softens at 250 degrees… Average temperature of a forest fire about 1400 degrees…

            Jar ~ 2600
            lid ~ 1200? stainless steel about 1600?
            wax ~ is there for moisture protection.
            Seems reasonable to me… and the glass is see-thru. If found hundreds of years from now… no guessing of it contents, and easy opening without destroying anything.

            Just some simply research.

          • Seeker,
            Good research.
            Wax melt point is low.

            wax ~ is there for moisture protection.

            May be under water…..
            Blub..o0O…Blub…oO0

            Don’t look in the trees or outside the tree line because the tree line may be filled with trees in a few years.

            Nevermind, your still on theory & how many ways you can skin a cat.

          • Jake – Better get yourself a gallon sized Ziploc bag to puke in, because there is at least one in the chest…

            http://dalneitzel.com/2014/07/16/dragon/

            You might want to pick up a copy of my documents just in case there are any other surprises you may be missing. 🙂 I just released an updated version with some bonuses.

            And then there is that word moisture and what it may mean… f mentioned it in relationship to the waxed lid and jar, $ bills, and dragon bracelet.

          • Thanks JCM,
            I don’t mind puking for a good cause.

            Maybe we should start the gallon zippy bag puke challenge?

            I will check it out.

          • “added by dal-
            Forrest did not send along a photo of the dragon bracelet. If you want to see it I guess you will have to find the chest because it is in a zip lock inside.”

            I am not going to puke until someone finds it.
            How do you like them apples?
            I’m not buying it JCM

          • Jake – I bet apples are better than a pastrami hamburger hitting a hot wood-burning stove… (gagging reflex kicking in just at the thought of the very vivid memory).

            And no, I won’t make you buy it; everyone is welcome to go about the chase as they please. 🙂

          • Good historization info JCM.
            I do not have all the info you got but close enough.

            Not puking yet….

            Plastic bag in the chest LOL.
            Maybe there’s a bobble head of Forrest as well.

          • Skin the cat…ha, Jake.
            Are you going back to the old lame excuse if your not stomping you can solve the poem BS?

            Did ya happen to read loco post ? about walking right to the chest etc. {those are fenn’s quotes}. or fenn’s answer about, how many clues can be done at home… “all of them…”

            Seem to me if you have a solve and you can’t find the chest… ya might have the wrong theory. But enjoy all those great vacations… that’s what is all about, right? Just vacations, right?

            I laugh every single time you or HMA or IW or PW or Rick Wacky wannabe Indiana Jones and countless others complain about little o’le me not going on a “search” because I can be honest with myself I don’t have the correct solve…

            It’s old bud… that, you can’t solve the poem with out botg excuse… it’s really old.

            But practicality /common sense says, you have to actually go to “retrieve” the chest… once you solved the clue correctly.

          • I don’t care if you go on a search Seeker.
            I never mentioned that.
            There are people here with limitations including myself.

            If you someday come up with a solve, I will be glad to go for you if the conditions are right.

            My point being is that the chest will not be happened upon or stumbled upon cause it is in a place where no one has gone & it cannot be burned by Mother Nature. One of the basic things that most have overlooked is the wax, glass, wood & hair in the box.

            That tells a very strong indication where it is not & may be where it is.

            I still think it’s soaking wet & gained a little weight & it’s very cold right now.

          • Seeker – can you expand on the “all of them” comment please?
            (re: clues can be done at home) ..or a link maybe?

          • thanks Alsetenash, appreciated & bookmarked the link 🙂 – i generally have a memory like a sieve, and i quite often just…

            (wait a minute ..what were we just talking about again?)

          • randawg,
            That’s what Tony said, not F.
            F said “is exposed”
            Everything is exposed to something.

          • ‘rattling Oscars’ rusty ol’ trash-can’ – tick!
            (..good onya randawg 🙂 )

            (..or should i say “Inspector Clousteau”)

            (..or should i say “Braden Barty!”.. 😛 )

          • CH~ “Seeker – can you expand on the “all of them” comment please?”

            – How much progress can be made by someone just thinking and searching the Internet from home? (Another way of saying this: How many clues can only be decoded in situ?) 
            FF: All of them, in theory, but not likely in practice. A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.-

            Of course this is my opinion CH,… all the clues can be processed at home, yet to “retrieve” the chest one must actually ‘go to’ the excat location of the chest. Which in my mind is what fenn meant by “but not likely in practice.”

            No real stomping out clues…unless that is the ‘only’ way to physically get to that spot.

          • Jake, maybe this will help;

            “Mr Fenn, in relation to the final resting place of the chest, which of the 4 natural elements (Earth, Wind, Water, Fire) would mostly compromise it resting? ~ James

            I know what the question is. I don’t think earth can hurt it, under the right conditions wind might affect it, it’s probably already wet, and look at what fire did to the twin towers. Nature makes her own rules, James, so I try to not be absolute when talking about her.”

            Note; probably wet.
            add the other comment fenn made about ~ “How can anything be in the Rocky Mountains and not be wet,” and “Physics tells me the treasure is wet.”

            Up to you Jake to what you want to believe and dismiss the rest…

          • Thanks Seeker,
            I have read those statements many times including recently before I commented on the hair burning scenario.

            “I know what the question is.”
            I know what it is to & the answer is just that.

      • If you put a comma right after “say”, the second part would read, the treasure is not in water…
        Just because he uses the word “not” twice does not mean he expected us to translate that to mean he meant that it IS in water because they nullify each other. That is just wishful thinking for those that believe the treasure is in water. In the end…the clues will lead to the treasure, be it in water or not. The water fall theory is enticing, but so far, it has been a total bust for many…

      • Seeker – you’ve magically reappeared 🙂

        my definition of “wood” also includes large forested areas:

        “Midway along the journey of our life
        I woke to find myself in a dark wood,
        for I had wandered off from the straight path”
        – Dante

      • Seeker, Jake and others,

        Speaking as on old US Forest Service firefighter (smoke eater), and as a volunteer fireman in two states, and from personal observation over the years, it is my opinion that the chest is at least 12 inches from anything combustible, and probably further away.

        I have worked fires in buildings that got so hot that steel girders melted so that the building collapsed. I have also observed my fire ring in my back yard get red hot, because the wind acted as a kind of forge to “super heat” an area of the ring. The fire burns hot enough to sterilize an area around my fire ring of about a foot so that the grass won’t grow. We all know that heat rises and most heat from any fire is drawing in cooler air from along the ground to feed the fire oxygen, and as the wood is consumed, heat is given off and rises. Some radiant heat is given off to the sides, and even in high wind in an open area not confined by non-burnable materials, the side heat is only “unmanageable” inside a 20 foot distance of a major fire. With a fan nozzle drawing fresh cool air in, you can get close enough to touch the burning material with the end of the nozzle. (If you’re that close, you have other concerns rather than heat – like getting trapped under falling debris.) But I digress.

        The reason I have taken the time to set this up is that it supports my theory that Indulgence is not standing on its feet, but on one of its sides. Please hear me out. Mr Fenn did think about things. I suspect that he positioned the chest in such a way as the olive jar is setting on its lid, so that if the wax were to melt from a forest fire, enough would end up inside the jar and at the bottom – inside the lid as it now rests, effectively allowing the seal to never be broken, unless tipped over, and then having the wax melted off. This is how my grandmother would seal her jelly jars that she used over and over that were just old mustard and pickle jars. Until the jelly was opened, they sat on their lids in the cellar.

        Concerning being in water as well, (but not a well), that might be, but seems less likely in my opinion. Possible, yes – probable, not likely. Water never ceases moving out in nature – it is always flowing to lower elevations, or evaporating into water vapor if not being acted upon by gravity, or wind like the surface of a pond or lake. But like others have speculated, I suspect that Indulgence is exposed to the elements in some way so that rain or snow or sleet or hail could actually fall upon it in some way. I’ll know when I pick it up – or one of my fellow chasers does.

        Hope this helps someone in their considerations. Good luck to all!

        • Thanks for the inside scoop swwot,
          For some reason I don’t think Forrest was going to play with fire.

      • Don’t expect to find the treasure where there is plentiful burning material around.

        Never mind the random tornado & wind.

        Be more concerned about the wax melting inside the chest than the water around it.

        Wax can melt & expose the biography & hair if the waters are boiling.

        Don’t think it will happen in my lifetime but you never know when a volcano explodes.

        Where is the safest place you can hide something without happening or stumbling across it?
        For me, it’s in water. Where I fish & bath & where I came from & sustains me.

      • Bottom line:

        ” Abandon hope all ye who enter here” .

        ” A searcher must go to the site to find the treasure.”

        It is no place for the meek.

        • I don’t think you should abandon hope Alsetenash.

          You state the obvious “go to”.

          Joseph Meek maybe.

          • I was just referencing a Dante Inferno quote as in CH quoted also. Just a reference to meek not a person.

          • Jake – what if the cap were tightly wrapped with thermal fabric, and once the scorch abates and temperatures cool, the wax would harden into a water-proof seal again?

            but then again, ‘what if’ the moon were made of green cheese too, i s’pose..

            (..which wouldn’t be great news for any future vegan lunar astronauts – that’s for sure! 🙂 )

  66. Has anyone ever seen or heard of an Endeavor Draw? It’s apparently not searchable, but most of the draws on the maps arent.

  67. Up thread Seeker posted to Jake and followed with the three more common quotes from Fenn in regards to the treasure being wet…Earth wind fire and water comment; the physics quote and the RM quote. Those three in particular were the turning point in my Chase…I spent two years chasing the waterfall/in water theory and then these quotes along with other revelations convinced me to start anew. Further up thread Jake brought up the wax sealed jar(glass) and how fire would ruin some of the contents of the chest if not out of the line of fire. I’ve spent a lot of time pondering these angles and I am sure Fenn himself thought of all of the possibilities. For those that still have a solve that includes Indulgence being in water I would ask myself; How deep is the water it is in? Does this area freeze in the winter months? How thick is the ice ? Is the glass going to handle that pressure of freezing in shallow water? Any amount of freezing in shallow water will crush that little jar unless Fenn water sealed the Chest too . For those that think the chest is in deeper water than freezing will happen, I say good luck with that one too. Heck…I have found flippers hidden behind rocks in places you wouldn’t believe.

    • I bought olives in a small jar.
      Ate the olives & emptied the jar.
      Sealed the lid with wax 3 times.
      Kept it submerged in water while in the freezer & froze & thawed it several times & not once did it crush, break or leak.

      Maybe someday I will actually do it for real.
      We do know if you fill the jar with water then freeze it will bust.

      Why would he seal the chest if the key is inside unlocked?

  68. JCM has released an update to his valuable Chasing Words series of searchable references to quotes from Forrest. It is now bigger and better than ever. There are also a couple of new reference materials in his collection.

    Additionally, JCM has started a blog with some interesting ideas and useful knowledge..

    Everything is available from his blog…
    Take a look here:
    https://no-paddle-creek-co.myshopify.com/blogs/news

    • I think Forrest should buy the collection just to refresh his memory on some things he said.
      Funny, paying for your own words.
      JCM probably gave him a freebie anyway.

    • Dal –

      I don’t see that I am able to leave comments on the JCM blog. Perhaps others will agree with me that we should create threads here to discuss his ideas.

      In particular I would like to discuss the legal and tax implications of finding a treasure trove.

      Lugnutz

      • There is a place for that Lug – It’s called “Legal Ponderings” Type in “legal” in the box below Dal’s PIC. Sure you knew this, but just thought I would remind you. JDA

      • Lug,
        I like to think Forrest Fenn covered all the bases regarding this but intentionally may have kept some details out. If I were going to hide treasure, I would make it very comfortable for the successful searcher.
        Many have commented on why the treasure may not be in a National Park or land owned by the government or state-owned lands. So, what if the treasure is still rightfully owned by Mr. Fenn. Would it then be under ownership laws? Or, might it just be lost and still the property of Mr. Fenn? So, upon finding the chest, it would not surprise me at all to “return” the treasure to FF. Then, after recovery, he would give you the title in person. There may even be instructions in the chest on how to handle the issue. If he was smart enough to hide the loot, write a book and a poem, I doubt he would not have thought of how to handle the aftermath. That would also make sense as he told the finder to put it in a vault for 30 days. That seem to point to a post treasure transaction plan. Heck, he might even buy it back! JMHO

        • Hate to state the obvious Bob, what happens when he dies? None of your question apply to fenn’s original thought.

          • Great point, Lugnutz. Guess I haven’t thought through the loss of the Fennster. Maybe his estate would carry through his wishes.

  69. Who has the best BBQ within the search area? An area with Texas-style brisket would be a ‘special place’ (IMO).

    • Hi J Smith! I just recently discovered BirdDog BBQ here in Colorado Springs. Nothing fancy in terms of atmosphere, but oh boy that’s some good BBQ brisket! Voted best in the city last year, and located pretty close to the I-25 corridor if you’re passing through on your way to a search spot! 🙂

      • Thanks Blex! FF said to ‘take a sandwich’ so that’s what I’m going to do. lol

    • That would be “Serious Texas BBQ” here in Durango CO. Two locations, enjoy a little putt putt golf next door. Quite popular with tourists and locals alike.

      • I’ll be headed out to Durango in early June on business. Thanks for the tip! 🙂

  70. Blex…if you want a local’s guide to the treasure that is Durango, give me a shout. Dal can provide you my email. I’ve tried to marry clues in the poem to this gorgeous area of the state with some interesting results, but no Indulgence. Yet. None the less, the hiking, fine and casual dining, boating, skiing, and general exploring here can’t be beat. IMO

    • Seriously! A chain-restaurant. The boy goes all the way to Colorado for a unique experience only to get something he could get anywhere…even in Greeley, CO. lmao ha ha ha. Just me being stupid and having fun. Have a great day all.

      • Gotta good BBQ place in the Rockies to recommend as an alternative, med_evac? I value the opinion of a true connoisseur.

    • Thanks, Sandy. I agree that it is a beautiful area indeed! We stayed there a few years ago and checked out Mesa Verde and then drove up to Telluride, which was also a gorgeous place. This time, I’m hoping to ride the narrow gauge railroad up to Silverton, and possibly do some exploring around in the Canyon of the Ancients. I don’t plan on doing any treasure-hunting, but maybe I’ll think something up before I head out! 😉

  71. According to Mr Fenn there’s some kind of glass container/jar in the chest. If/when the chest is found, how would you get it back to your vehicle without damaging the contents inside? It seems like 22 lbs of gold could shift/move and easily break a glass container?
    I constructed a model of the chest to see what kind of space would be needed to hide it and to see if it would even fit inside a backpack. I found it would only fit if I inverted the chest and stood it on it’s end. This would of course cause everything inside to shift potentially damaging the artifacts inside.
    Has anyone else given this any thought and what was your solution? Make two trips? Carry it out in the open? etc…

    • The container is a glass olive jar with a screw top. It holds a autobiography so small you need a magnifying glass to read it. Fenn made two trips from his car, carrying the chest on one trip and the contents of the chest on one trip… if your worried about breaking the glass jar… the chest is unlocked… just take it out and put in in your pocket.

      Fenn also answered, in a Q&A, if he carried in a backpack or in the open…

      • Thanks Seeker. I have read what FF did I was just curious if anyone else had given this any thought or if they would do it some other way? Just to be clear I’m a long ways from having to worry about it. lol I was just wondering if there’s a better way I hadn’t considered.

        • We all probable have thought about it… I think if there was a different way fenn would have done it…
          I also think the trips are for one person in mind. If you have someone with you… I guess there’s no need for two trips. But he does tell us if you can’t make two trip from you car in several hours, don’t go.

          Kinda make one think if the location is only big enough for one person. He did, at one time, was going to use this location as his final resting place. I would think that it might not be completely out in the open.

          But that’s just me.

    • “So I placed a 20,000 word autobiography in the chest. It’s in a small glass jar and the lid is covered with wax to protect the contents from moisture. The printed text is so small that a magnifying glass is needed to read the words. I tried to think of everything.” excerpt from TTOTC.

      When he said he thought about everything, does that mean that he also included the magnifying glass in the chest so we can read the small print? Or does the glass jar that holds it does the magnifying trick? Interesting…

      • It is interesting that fenn felt the need to mention the magnification needed.

        Maybe that’s a hint to scant… A small point to gaze at.

    • J Smith

      i took an almost empty (95 litre) backpack with me, which is designed to carry 80ish lbs (have previously carried 65lbs comfortably) as i fully intended to hike the whole thing out in one go, and the chest would’ve sat inside it easily (packed out with a few beach towels) without the need to up-end it.

      problem with small day-packs is the straps are too weak for 44lbs as well as killing ya poor shoulders in the process ..so my advice is ‘go large’ 🙂

      • You mean it won’t fit in my man purse! J/K thanks for the advice curious hobbit I appreciate it. I’ve got a big pack for camping, etc… so it’ll have to do I guess.

      • no worries J – hope ya have more luck than i did

        btw, what’s a ‘man-purse’?? ( ..tsk tsk)
        🙂

  72. I would hide it in a beautiful place in nature where people don’t go.
    Far from paved roads & cell phone towers & tech in general.

    Not hunters, fisherman, hikers, bikers, horseback riders would stumble on it.
    Maybe gold panners.

  73. I dreamed about pie tins last night. Mother was using one to pan for gold… and I was baking a pie.

    Sorry, Jake. Kind of out there.

    Your idea seems…….peaceful.

  74. It’s really in there SL,
    Money gets money.
    Gold gets gold.

    Don’t be surprised, where the area the chest is found contains gold.
    At the least I think it was a creek that contained lots of gold but some is still left.

    • The area you speak, was there a gold mine, or just known to have had a lot of gold at one time?

      • It was a gold mining area as well as a logging area & 50+ cabins but now only 3. Something tells me the area where it is was a gold mining are though.

        Just intuition.

        • Gosh, it sounds like an interesting area. I wish you the best of luck with your search.

        • A logging area fits with the picture on pg. 146 that has all of the tree stumps. I was wondering if the picture referred to a clearing of some sort, so that a forest fire would not be an issue.

          • Those stumps JBL.
            I can see many cabins being made with plenty of firewood for the temporary inhabitants.

            We know he worked for the Forest Service clearing trails which may have lead to gravel roads.

            I think there was a statement by F about “heavy load” while pushing logs across Hebgen with a boat back in the day.

            I’m wondering if there was also a paddle wheel to either create electricity or cut logs when he logged & is no longer there.

          • If you can figure that out, that would be impressive. It’s a creative idea about a paddle that I had never considered.

          • Jake – your paddle-wheel idea is clever, and i believe “no paddle up your creek” contains a relevant clue that’s too easily dismissed as being ‘the creek is too shallow to navigate by boat’

            also, some searchers have referenced “end is ever drawing nigh” to rail-road tracks, so i thought this may interest you (& Seeker)

            “wounded soldiers were transported up Haslar creek by tramline hence ‘Up the creek without a paddle’.”
            https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/up_the_creek

            in early NZ history, lumberjacks would load tram-carts with heavy logs for transport to the mill, so maybe the correct creek contains dis-used rail/tram tracks (?)

          • Thanks curious hobbit,
            After talking to some older fisherman on the Gallatin & Mike at Eldridge cabin, some have known about paddle wheels on some of the creeks way back & I hope this doesn’t fall into the category of knowing history.

            I like the idea of a paddle wheel better than Beaver paddle, oar’s & spanking.

          • yeah, i don’t see paddle-wheels as delving too historically deep either

            make no mistake tho mate, i have less of clue than the majority here imo – as i successfully succeeded in not finding the chest once, but thoroughly enjoyed the impromptu adventure with my older brother in every moment – so found my treasure, & am jus quietly spectating at the mo
            (with binocs, occasionally ..but happily enjoying not watching golf 🙂 )

            please jus promise to find it before Zap does, Oscar ( …i heard he’s currently on some local moon expedition, examining astroloids or something ..?)

            ( ..quick! ..while he’s distracted! 🙂 )

          • CH,
            I still have to revert to this Q&A:
            Mr. Fenn, Is there any level of knowledge of US history that is required to properly interpret the clues in your poem. ~Steve R
            No Steve R,
            The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.ff

            “Any level” and “required” are very direct and fenn seems to answer with a definite No. then continues with what he feels is important or might be more helpful.

            I tend to tread lightly when I see history… especially anything directly involving US history as useful / usable.

            Another Q&A is:
            Is there a subtle message you are sharing with the reader and hope they realize? ~ Seeker . No Seeker, The poem is straight forward with no subterfuge in sight.

            So I have to wonder if the poem only relates to physical landscape {geography} and nothing more. The question now is… how does fenn depict the wording in the poem to describe, show, imagine, what we should be looking for or at?

          • Thank you, CH. New doc tomorrow, so hopefully some answers soon. Never give up. Never, never, never give up.

          • nice to hear you again JBL – hope ya feeling better 🙂

            which doco do you mean? – The Lure? ..umm, given that i reside on another planet entirely (Mid-ish Earth somewhere) i’m immensely tempted to watch that doco on one of those rasculous pirate channels (on the infra-web)

            ..but don’t worry, i actually know another massively-unknown pirate (who resides in your chilly NW waters btw) that might just vouch for me 🙂

            [note to self: message Dal by homing pigeon, requesting a reference so i can watch The Lure sometime before 2027 a.d – and also try not to mention any nameDARN IT ALL 🙁 ]

          • jeez Seeker – took ya time replying!!
            ( ..i was almost ready to call 911 🙂 )

            yes, i respect that ‘specialised knowledge’ shouldn’t be required, and simply coz Forrest said as much, but that’s entirely relative to what’s deemed ‘general knowledge’ i s’pose

            for e.g: every USGS topo-map possesses a general ease of interpretation to most of us sane citizens
            (excluding Sparrow of course ..but shh)

            ..so no, using simple logic to translate an accurately chartered (thru lotsa sweat & tears by the land-surveyor btw – and sometimes blood too) map, doesn’t quite cut the ‘specialised knowledge’ mustard on my yummy ham sandwich though, unfortunately (for you 😛 )

            but anyhoos, my earlier point was more directed toward the geographical foot-print that railroads indelibly leave behind on our landscape – and so easily seen on Gmaps too, even from a great height

            ‘it seems prudent to do a little investigating about higher things.’

            ( ..yes, that’s a real quote JDA – please try not to faint ..from shock 🙂 )

          • CH,
            Where did it say special knowledge in either of those Q&A’s?

            That was M Davis question regarding special knowledge of learning about certain thngs fenn himself learned… fishing or the military etc.

            Not everyone has served in the military or has fished / hunt etc. So I look at this answer as the clues should be able to be understood by many in every walks of life.

            A map is a map… at some point in life we all should have seen a map, globe, etc. I don’t think familiarizing one self to read a topo map is special knowledge. That would be like saying, special knowledge is need to drive a stick shift vs an automatic. So I think we’re on the same page… But again, as I attempted to explain my thoughts… it’s one thing to familiarize yourself with things we should know of … to researching paintings, bible verses, head pressures, family and friends of fenn and every aspect of their lives… Or even finding RR tracks or airports etc. on a map..imo.

            I think we might be over doing the “details” of a good map / GE.
            If a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help us… does that really include Buildings and highways and RR structure that in another hundred years may no longer be there?

            Fenn said, he could have written the poem before he hid the chest, but he didn’t.
            I think what he was implying was, the clues were usable even before the thought of the challenge. The real question here is, how long ago could that have been done. 100 years, 600 years, or only within his life time?

            I wonder if L&C would need a more recent map with all the labels {mentioned above} to find the chest? And the same with future generation… will they need to research 500 or 1000 year old maps of those same labels, or could they just need a map / satellite imaging of the land itself… rivers, mountains, woodland, waterfalls, valleys, canyons, etc.

            If we take it a step further… In the year 3009 { which I think was a subtle hint s to the chest was hidden in 2009 and in the summer of, but no real help to solve the clues }
            It will be harder to find the chest because the RM’s are still moving…lol does that include the roads and RR and building or simply the natural landscape?

            There is a lot to ponder with the after the fact information… hopefully, by knowing this information we don’t stray off on those wild tangents fenn warns us about.

            Ok, that was some of my whatIF line of thinking.

          • my apols mate, for unintentionally inferring that you ref. ‘specialised’ ..but thankfully i managed to successfully avoid your other confessed ‘wild tangent’ rabbit-holes – so that’s good 🙂

            maps are entirely designed to be as informationally simple as possible to the observer (some don’t achieve that, but most do) so no great knowledge is required, no university degree, no 162 IQ ..no nuthin (Sopranos quote 🙂 )

            ..so the only qualification required is just a healthy curiosity and some patient examination, which is available to all of us – for free

            ( ..i’m beginning to change my mind about you not walking the plank btw )

            ( ..Dal reckons you should – he told me that last wednesday ….no, honestly!)
            🙂

          • JBL,
            Those trees may grow back in the near future & may spell trouble for the chest.

            Although I would bet if the chest was placed on grass where there is soil, it will probably sink into the ground slowly over time & bury itself away from the flames above but I think this would take too long & would be expose to a few fires.

            I’m selling…

          • Seeker, if one asked f did you ever say that no level of (U.S.) history is helpful in figuring out the clues, I’d guess he would say I never said that…if he answers at all.

            I’m saying I bet the answer is he didn’t mean to say that and searchers are incorrectly bending his answer.

          • Fun,
            I don’t know how you can say would say he did say that…The question was direct and straight in meaning. And the answer the same

            I’ll add, this was a write in QnA…Fenn had all the time in the world to answer it with his No response.

            Maybe you can ask fenn if his answer did not answer the question has presented….Any level of US history.

            Now if some think movement of land or change in a water area is part of US history I can’t help that…Those changes would have happened whether it was called The US or Pandora.

          • Hey Bert,
            Riddle for ya…
            I should be two but apparently am only one.
            I give shade to life’s vision, but I have none.

            What am I ?

          • jeez Iron McFe Willy, ya such a big pain in da butt, asking me (“the King of being entirely hopeless at all puzzles”) a puzzle!?

            but glad to see you’ve recovered from your recent Everest adventure ..sort of

            are you the moon??? 🙂

          • well ..someone’s obviously bounced back from a harsh winter search – oh joy

            ( ..that was honestly funny tho IW – welcome back to the funny-farm nikan 🙂 )

          • Seeker, I can say that because you are still leaving out what the latter half of the question is about. All you are focusing on is U.S history in the first part of the question and then you tie that in with f’s answer about requirement.

            The latter half of the question asks about it being required to properly interpret the clues in f’s poem. That’s the part that f focused on in the first part of his answer. He answered about what the only requirement is. Doesn’t mean other things don’t help you figure out what the clues mean and he’s mentioned what those things are in his answer here and elsewhere.

            It’s like a two part question and with f’s first sentence in his response he only answered one part of the meaning of the question. Then for good measure, f explained further that history is helpful if one correctly interprets that part of his answer.

            That’s two ways I can show that backs up my claim…

          • Forrest logic at the Fenn household:

            Peggy: “Forrest, dear, can you go to store and pick up a loaf of bread? If they have eggs, get a dozen.”

            Forrest returns home with a dozen loaves of bread. 😉

          • Sorry to confuse you, CH. I meant new doctor tomorrow. My comment was not Chase related unless doctor says I have Fenn Fever.

          • Fun,

            “Mr. Fenn, Is there any level of knowledge of US history that is required to properly interpret the clues in your poem. ~Steve R”

            There is no two parts to this single question… There’s no comma, no period, no notta that would even ‘suggest’ that the question could considered having two parts to it.

            Fenn’s answer was No.
            The adding on; The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. Doesn’t pull back the No to a suggested Yes. Fenn could have eliminated the “no” ans still used the words above… but he choice to answer the question with No.

            The question was direct and to the point. By saying No, answered the question… the other part, was the addition of Geography might help. { that there is a hint in my book }

            BUT… let me explain what I personally believe what “US history” means… because we don’t really have a fenn definition to that… imo, that is anything involving government during the time country was founded and beyond.

            I say this because of certain Historical places imo could fall into a clue and others may not.

            One example I would use to show my thought would be, The L&C expedition or the L&C trail… was government ordered and funded. I consider that US history…yet, The birth of Jean Baptiste Charbonneau would not be “US history.”

            Or the SF trail being founded in 1821 as US history, Yet the CD trail Not… My reasoning is the CD trail was simply establish in 1978 by congress but it was not man designed {like the L&C trail}, only utilized for recreational and national trust.

            YSP falls under the same as the CD in my use of “US History”… even though it is the first national park.. the history if the area is not of “US history” it is simply a geological area. Anything added to the park during the US time line does fall under “US history”

            So if I said a clue was interstate transportation system, I would call that US history, and kick it out. But if I called the Mississippi a clue, that falls to natural landscape and long before the US was established, no matter what the given name. Even though we use it as a major transportation system.

            Anyways… the question, even with the use of the word required, was US history Knowledge needed for interpreting the clues properly.

            Required; ; indispensable, necessary, essential, involved etc… To answer No and not be true… I’d have a big problem with that one, to be honest.

          • Zap,
            While your example is cute… it was separated by a question mark ~ can you go…?
            Then in addition you inquired about eggs… that give two points to the conversation. The Q&A above does not.

            Just saying.

    • Jake,

      I don’t think you’re at all mistaken about the area where the chest is found containing gold. The earth beneath our feet and the oceans surrounding us holds a bounty of ‘treasures’ yet to be discovered. In their own right, creeks and streams could prove to be strong contenders. ( I’ve yet to rule out the high desert and particular marsh/wetlands.)

      I don’t know when, if ever The Flyer’s TC is going to be found. I do, however, hope the process will remain intact, and as it was originally intended.

  75. To know how far Forrest walked, we need to go back to his poem and read it again. This subject has been one of the least of my concerns. It is not up to me to decide how far he could or couldn’t walk. I work in an emergency room where I see 100 y/o patient’s with more zip and spunk than me. I also see 20 – 40 y/o patient’s living in assisted living with not much history as to why except for a general “failure to thrive” aspect.
    The poem will lead us to the treasure. Now that I am at the end of the poem (imo) I will say that he said, and I’m paraphrasing, that he walked less than a few miles to the hidey place. That to me could be interpreted as less than a few miles total for both trips from his car or each way was less than 3 miles. Who are we to judge what someone can and can’t do? The average person can walk about 3 miles in one hour on a level surface. Just my two cents and as gracefully as always IMO.

    • Med_Evac

      1) i have a deep respect for your vocation and all triage staff globally, for my own reasons and experiences
      2) i agree with you entirely about individual spirit/mind vs health/fitness, and how that translates physically over time
      3) some here may passionately disagree with our astute worldly observations, so i willingly offer you my only flaming-pitchfork-retardant-proof-vest ..just in case 🙂

      but don’t worry, i’ll be ok without it..
      (well.. maybe you could jus stand infront of me of a while?)
      🙂

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