Nine Facts….

SUBMITTED MARCH 2017
by WHUT

 

  1. In Mogollon, New Mexico, there is a church named Mt. Carmel.  (Home of Brown)

  1. The road past the church (from there) is  Hwy 159 known as Bursum Rd—universally described as no place for the meek.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/gila/news-events/?cid=STELPRDB5418844

  1. As you enter Mogollon, on the left there is a drawing of a clock stopped at 4:00, the end of the last shift at the last operating mine in Mogollon, painted by the miners in the 1940s.   (End is ever drawing nigh)  

  1. Silver Creek run through Mogollon and into Deadwood Gulch.  Usually runs ankle deep.  (No paddle)
  1. The Confidence Mine just outside the town produced heavy loads that required up to 40-horse teams to just lower the ore down the mountain.   The mine is the reason there is a “water high”.  A pipeline (called “The Catwalk”) was built in Whitewater Canyon for the purpose of bringing water to the mine.   More on this later.
  2. The Catwalk carried water overhead as high as 20’ above Whitewater canyon’s floor.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fse_010087.pdf

  1. The Little Fanny Mine left tailings of brilliant white cascading down in a classic blaze pattern.  It flowed down into Deadwood Gulch.   It is easy to spot on Google or Mapcarta maps.

  1. There is a blackish flat rock formation opposite the mine tailings on the Deadwood Gulch cliff.  The powdery quartz tailings coat everything in a marble glazeThis is not a great photo, but it sits in stark contrast to the brown on each side, especially in shadow.    (Tarry scant with marvel gaze/marble  glaze)

  1. There are several wood piles between the tailings and the blackish cliff.  One looked manmade, with many sticks of nearly equal length (2’-3’) stacked vertically.  I was certain a snake, rodent or something worse would be underneath and would attach me as I pulled the sticks out.  I needed to remind myself to be brave.  (Brave and in the wood) 

I saved WWWH and Canyon down for last so I could give a more detailed explanation.  The clues begin and end with the Catwalk.

It’s now a park, but back when the Confidence Mine was operating it needed water to process the ore.  The Whitewater Creek wasn’t a reliable source that far down the canyon, so an engineer named Graham built a pipeline from up above that carried a constant flow of water to the processing plant.  The pipeline attached to the canyon walls some 20 feet above the floor and it was dubbed “The Catwalk” because miners would have to walk it like a tightrope high in the air to make repairs.  (BTW, the water source  where the pipeline begins qualifies as “warm water” and has brown trout).  So the Catwalk started where the warm water halted and took it in the canyon down.

The distance between the Catwalk and Mogollon is only 2 or 3 miles, but it’s so steep and rocky it would be unwalkable.   That distance is as the crow flies—to drive it is about 12 miles.

Go to Google Map and mark the waypoints for the clues listed above.  Or a better map for this is Mapcarta.com.

  • Catwalk Recreation Park.
  • Mogollon, New Mexico, then zoom in.  The church is on the far right of the town on higher ground.  There is a parking area below the church for visitors to walk the town.
  • The clock drawing is on the left rock wall where Deadwood Gulch begins.
  • Silver creek flows through the town and down Deadwood Gulch.
  • Confidence Mine is just across the road North from the Catwalk.  It is most easily found using Mapcarta.com.
  • The blaze is in the middle of the points just marked and easy to spot.   (searchers get the first clues right, then go right past….)
  • The tarry scant can’t been seen on an aerial map.  You can see, however, see a large tombstone-like rock which is 40 feet tall directly below the mine tailings.  That is nearby.

An alternative that requires an IMO is:  Forrest’s unusual use of a missing “D” in knowledge and his several references to tea make me wonder if he wants us to change “down” to “town”—as in reference to the canyon town of Mogollon.

Either way, the waypoints bracket The Catwalk, The Confidence Mine, Mogollon and the blaze.

Spare me the “but Forrest said….” stuff.  I’ve studied everything Forrest has said, and I have responses to the “north of Santa Fe” quotes.  He said north for a reason, and he said many other things that should have alerted searchers.  In this thread I’m giving you facts, and if you don’t want to use them it’s okay with me.

Now some IMO.  Let’s look at the “map” on page 99 of the book.

  Notice:

  • The outline of a cat (circled in red.)  If you look at Google map you can see a similar pattern on Bursum Road  (Look for the “ears”.)   This is where the Catwalk is.  It should be easily found on both the Google and Mapcarta maps.
  • The ladders (circled in yellow) on a map not drawn to scale are where the Gila Cliff Dwellings are.
  • The mountain peak and the blaze (circled in black).  See the very same outline of the picture of Fanny Hill above and the tailings.

  • Notice the arrow going down the right side of the tailings into Deadwood Gulch.
  • The “X”s of the bombs tailfins mark the Confidence Mine and Cooney’s grave on a map not drawn to scale.
  • The “river” resembles Bursum Road as it winds to Mogollon.
  • There is a county airport between the Catwalk and Mogollon

  • .  The residence at the airport has an old sedan

  • Wonder if Forrest borrowed it?

Another interesting tidbit:  At this spot a tunnel directs the creek through the cliff for about 40 yards.  If the water isn’t running too high, you can walk through it—but take a flashlight.

From the town, the spot is an easy, almost level half-mile walk from the road.  It’s easiest to just walk the creek, but don’t worry—your effort will be worth the cold.

As a final resting place—there is a beautiful spot on top of a huge boulder looking down the gulch above the stream.  I totally get it.

https://goo.gl/photos/9CYi69mQYxHpuw6F9

To wrap this up—three comments:  First, I have been there and didn’t find the TC.  Second, Why would I give up my solve?  A couple of days ago I was diagnosed with pulmonary fibrosis, and I won’t be able to go again.  My friends and family think I’m insane for thinking there’s a treasure out there somewhere, so no one to pass the secret to.  I know you out there are as involved as I have been with this.

The third is the best:  I’ve done maybe a thousand or more hours of research.  I’ve learned things that are a part of vanishing history:  warm water Apaches, the suspected birthplace of Geronimo, and hideouts temporarily for Butch Cassidy and Billy the Kid.  The mining lore of New Mexico ghost towns is fastinating. The Confidence Mine payroll wagon was robbed 21 times by the same guy before they caught and hanged him on the 22 attempt.  I even came across an account of a mine boss overhearing an Apache cook and Chinese laborer talking-to each other, each using their native dialect (Apache and Tartar Chinese).  The languages were nearly identical! and they had no problem understanding each other.   Mind boggling.  I’ve seen cougars, herds of elk, grey wolf tracks and listened to coyotes howl as I camped under a dark sky that makes the stars twice as bright.   I’m richer for searching, and I hope the unemployed redneck will come and find it.

Links

Mogollon

http://www.ghosttowns.com/states/nm/mogollon.html

http://www.mogollonenterprises.com/

P.S.  Be Aware!  The only road to Mogollon is CLOSED for repair.  Not just kind of closed where you can drive around barriers—it is completely gutted and you will not be able to drive into there.  The few locals that live there have a deal with the construction company that requires the company to move their heavy equipment to allow the locals to pass.  They will not do that for visitors.  I have explored all the other possible accesses to the blaze.  There are none.  The terrain is rocky and there are vertical drops of 200 feet in the canyon.    The very best hikers would need several days and mountain climbing skills to make the trip even though the distance is short.  The elevation changes are staggering.  Also, there is private property there.  The locals are their own law enforcement, so check property maps before you plan a hike.

Read up on Catron County, New Mexico.  It is a unique place, the size of Delaware but the largest town (county seat) has a population of 143.  Past a law prohibiting the US Government from taking property from individuals. Hmmm.

by WHUT-

44 thoughts on “Nine Facts….

    • His solution, although not in a correct location, does not exhibit a shortcoming in comprehensive knowledge of geography. It may show he has made a mistake though. IMO. There are actually quite a few factors within the solve that require comprehensive knowledge of geography that are very correct.

      • Richard-
        Seems pretty clear to me that anyone who graduated high school who can’t follow simple directions like north and can’t find the Rocky Mountains in New Mexico is exhibiting a lack of basic geographic knowledge…

        On the other hand…if someone CAN figure out where north is at and CAN find the Rocky Mountains but chooses to ignore those fundamental directions than you are correct. I suppose it isn’t a lack of comprehensive knowledge of geography that is missing…rather, an inability to follow fundamental guidelines.

        • I can agree with that. If that person wants to abide by those guidelines. Ignoring guidelines doesn’t display a lack of knowledge. It displays a lack compliance maybe? I’m sure both our backgrounds have turned us both into folks that are not a fan of any of that lol.

          1SG B

          • In a situation like that I’d wait for the road and weather conditions to be optional and find a spot north of Santa Fe.

          • Most definitely. Even though I enjoy the snow, I feel that if there is none on the ground, between 10k and 5k feet, I have a better chance of noticing the blaze that, hopefully, smacks me in the face lol.

        • Im a little brain dead have you tried to go north of Santa Fe its like a horse shoe going around the mountains i get so turned around its silly finding the right northern route is as hard as finding warm waters that halt. but i do love the area thank you Forrest for the experience thanks for sharing your toughts Richard you can beat there words of failing health dont give up success is your revenge.

          • success is your revenge.

            Thanks Jeff….

            I haven’t met in real life, but I’ve met you here in the HoD.

            Very wise words!, Thanks (cheers to Titan!)

          • I also think of a man thats a friend hanging on to a parking metor at a stop light taking 5 off to be cleaver my spelling is trashed so who realy knows but north is north if you can find northI can barely but who believes every thing that i say by the way the J F in the bottom of that picture that was not mentioned stands for jet flash the after burner of jet plains but Forrest Knows more about that stuff then I DO.

          • take care of your self richard dont give upthanks we will meet some day

  1. Hi WHUT,

    Whether your solve is “the solve” or a solve, thank you for taking the time to share it. Highly imaginative and that makes it a good read. Loved the pictures too! Your way of thinking will most certainly spur some ideas and that is why we are all here on this blog I think.

    And, I am so sorry you hear of your diagnosis. May your mind and spirit keep your body strong and peaceful. I’ll keep you in my prayers.

    Thanks again for putting it out there!

    • Second. This is a more compelling solve than many that fit the parameters. I know a thing or two about being wrong myself-good luck Whut

  2. Man, I take an afternoon off and look what happens. The exhaust fumes must be backing up into Esmeralda again for Dal to post this.

    OK Whut, I’m trying to be sensitive here. I don’t understand why folks come up with these idiotic hair ball solutions. You remind me of the gal that is absolutely certain the chest is in Texas, or the guy that couldn’t be wrong because his solution was perfect. He thought someone got the chest but they also took the blaze with them. The only problem with his solution was the chest was located well above 10,200 feet. They both had compelling solutions except they ignored what he has said.

    I had a great solution for the chest being in the La Sal mountains in southern Utah. I really wanted it to be there. But alas, it’s not in Utah. Do you think the chest might be in Utah and I was right all along?

    Here’s what I don’t understand, and why I nuke folks for calling Fenn a liar. If you think he’s lying why are you searching? If he’s telling us lies about the location of the chest why would we believe him when he says he hid the chest in the first place? A person could, and many have, made a reasonable argument that the whole thing is a hoax.

    You said we would understand after we read your solution. All I see is yet another obsessed searcher force fitting the clues even when Fenn’s statements say you are wrong.

  3. “I have responses to the “north of Santa Fe” quotes. He said north for a reason”
    I’m ready for those responses when you are. Otherwise good luck to you and to anyone that searches for you Mr Whut.

    • sorry i have to relearn this stuff north i lost my compose in my brain lose but i think i know which way to go but the how far is still missing i am a believer take 5

  4. Whut? – sorry to hear of your fibrosis diagnoses mate, and sincerely wish you all the best for your future health

    i’m impressed with your obvious research into this specific area, not to mention the fact that you searched botg yourself, which scores highly on the ‘brave’ scale in anyones book, esp mine

    ..but ‘north’ is still north, whether it’s more than 270ºW or less than 90ºE, so i’m inclined to remain firmly embedded in the ‘Forrests gang of highly rascalous pirates’ camp ..even though Dal has been overly carbon-monoxided by Esmeralda, and Goofy is permanently grumpy coz his truck won’t start, or the hyper-drive warp-system isn’t working properly, even after an oil change and new spark-plugs ..but you didn’t hear that from me, ok?

    ..uh-oh 🙂

  5. I always liked the Twilight Zone as a break from reality and a ride on the zany side of things…this episode actually made me a little upset.
    You guys should stop making fun of Esmerelda…she’s entitled to toot a little at her age….

    • oh, you’re such a big softy ken ..with an obvious passion for Esmeralda ( ..that def supersedes any normal boundaries of romantic ‘notions’ known to society thus far, imho)

      ( ..is there even a ‘name’ for that yet?) 🙂

  6. I’m going to be away from the keyboard all day today. I understand your comments, even expected them. There are reasons and answers, IMO–they are just too long to give twitter-sized replies.

    Two very genteral replies: South of SF? I offered that up in WWWH. don’t really want to go through that again. I stand by it and if you want to know what I said–look it up.

    Second, explain to me the map picture on page 99. Why does it match so perfectly with this solve?

    There’s a whole bunch more. If anyone cares by tomorrow, I’ll look back in.

    • Whut,
      You’re not the only one that uses the “map(s)”, hidden “words”, and hidden “pictures-within-the-picture” on page 99 to prove they have the perfect solve. Unfortunately, all those other perfect solves matched the illustration patterns to completely different places and states. Which one of you is correct….it’s so hard to know? Ha, ha.

      Sorry bud…you and the others are just seeing what you want to see to rationalize a solution-(IMO). You’re entitled to you opinion but there’s no logical way you can justify south of Santa Fe for a solution.

    • Hi Whut,
      I’m of the same mind as you that the map on p. 99 will be critical for identifying the winning solve, although we seem to be in the minority. Happy to share insights about it with you. mangorick @ yahoo dot com

  7. Whut…sorry to hear about your health issue. I totally disagree about your solve since your treasure location is south of SF, but you did find other treasures like many of us who have spent countless hours BOTG. The Catwalk is one of the hikes I’ve been meaning to do for over 20 years…it’s just very inconvenient to get to. And then during floods, the “catwalk” itself tends to wash away and it takes years for it to be rebuilt. Mongollon is a ghost town that I also hope to visit someday. Right now all my trips take me into the mountains north of Santa Fe but after Fenn’s treasure chest is found, I will begin putting in below the home of C. Thanks for sharing because you actually put BOTG as well as doing the many hours of research. I don’t understand the searchers who don’t abide by Fenn’s stated criteria, though, but that is your choice.

  8. Thanks for sharing, Whut. I’ll add my sympathy too for your health diagnosis. I know that sooner or later, we’ll all eventually get to a point where health or age will stop us from being able to frolic in the mountains as much as we used to. I’m planning to bag as many wonderful hikes as I can before that happens, and it looks like you have done the same, so hopefully you are happy with the adventurous outings you already have under your belt.

    Your search area looks beautiful. I don’t think I’ll worry about searching for Forrest’s treasure in this area, but I may have to get down there just for some hiking sometime. (My hiking destination wishlist for this season is already too big for the allotted amount of time!)

  9. I am guessing that part of the premise of your theory is that treasure maps are drawn with intended distortions and misdirection. That right is left and up is down, and may be a reflection seen only in a mirror from the back side of the paper. When you employ the counter intuitive approach the end draws nigh.
    It was worth a shot. It is no better or worse than anybody else’s solve that came up without the gold.
    I’ve been up there too. Just to take the scenic route.

  10. I’ve seen a lot of references to 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe, but is it truly the north boundary of the city limits? I can’t find that anywhere. Also, what about the possibility of it being north of the Santa Fe trail?

    • Really, Smart Blonde……….I mean really. I’m trying to be tactful and sensitive here. Perhaps you should change your name to Chrissy.

      You’ll have to dig deep to find the answer to your question. It’s at the top of the page under FUNDAMENTAL GUIDELINES.

      • Goofy,
        Wow, you and Dal forgot to eat your wheaties!
        But it is funny seeing yall like this. Never heard yall say such things ! Maybe the blog needs a holiday! For the record.. i am not blonde anymore!
        Chrissy..

      • 8.25 miles north of the northern limits of Santa Fe, New Mexico. may be some one is singing but a gone fishing for my vacation sign is in order love life the wilderness knows best. like agua fria.is cold water

        • I STILL FEEL LIKE APACHE CREEK IS NORTH OF SANTA FE BUT ITS SOUTH IM TOLD I LOVE NEW MEXICO BUT IM LOST EVERY TIME I TRY TO GO BY FEEL. GO FIGURE I GUESS WE ALL HAVE OUR DOWN FALLS Getting through them is the true test

          • That’s the truth Jeff…
            Every one of us has some sort of vulnerability..weakness…downfall…imperfection…
            Except me, of course 🙂

  11. Wow, Goofy! I had never read the fundamental guidelines before. I didn’t know about them till now. Yes, I’m embarrassed!!! I had heard him say 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe, but he had also said in an interview that he considered north to be the 180 degrees that are a northerly direction. But now I see that it cannot be the Santa Fe Trail. This actually eliminates several solutions that are in the area northeast and northwest of the southern border of Santa Fe for me. And Chrissy turned out to be pretty smart….LOL

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