Home of Brown…

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This is for a discussion about “the home of Brown” in Forrest’s poem.

Got an HOB that didn’t work out…or maybe you need an HOB for a certain area…or perhaps you have an idea that needs some fleshing out..

This is the place to discuss all things HOB…

dal…

249 thoughts on “Home of Brown…

      • I think you misinterpreted fenns possible message to you in scrapbook 130. In my opinion he was referring to the nobody guy everyone hates and how he lost his chance. I also think he was asking you to step up. Depends how you recognize the trigger words. It’s also possible that he has abandoned the whole trigger word thing but I doubt it since he has stated that a “she” will be surprised to see what is in the chest. I kind of wish he didn’t spoil it that much but maybe it was a typo. I doubt it though. Either way fenn is a hero for this treasure hunt

          • Cynthia-
            There is no reason for St. Mary’s not to be the HOB as long as the clues in the poem take you there…
            But I don’t think you can simply say it could be “here” because we have Brown trout in CO.
            Best to start at the beginning and see where the clues lead you than start in the middle…in my opinion…

    • Well there is Mt. Cleveland, 10,479 feet in northern Montana… not quite at the top… and just above the 10,200 feet max 🙂 happy hunting

  1. IMHO….a HUGE hint…and my contribution to finding Indulgence this season:

    The question isn’t “what is the home of Brown”, rather, “what is put in below the home of Brown?” – The answer – a basement! “Brown” is capitalized simply to indicate that it is a proper name, a homeowner’s name.

    ~Wisconsin Mike

    • Wisconsin Mike, I appreciate your thinking on this . . .
      that’s one angle I haven’t seen before. But (since I am
      one) I tend to think like an engineer, and am a stickler for logic. So . . .

      When one “puts in” a basement, the basement is dug or
      constructed before the house/home above it, right? It’s hard for me to imagine the house existing first, with
      anybody (i.e., Brown) living in it, before the basement is
      “put it” or built. So I don’t believe that your line of thinking
      is what FF had in mind when he wrote the poem. If you’re suggesting that the TC was “put in” (placed) in a
      basement or cellar below the home of someone named
      Brown, then you have to deal with the fact that FF has
      told us that the TC is not associated with any structure.

      But keep thinking! Ideas that most other searchers have
      not had are the kind that will help solve the poem. Good
      luck in your solving and searching.

      • Now there’s some music in that song. Nice work!

        In the basement of our lives is it love, truth, our times?
        or all three???

  2. Many capitol “B’s” for Brown throughout all four states. Having had a difficult time with WWWH, I tried finding any Brown I could and then backtracking to WWWH. F is correct. Solve in order. I’m taking one state at a time and trying to apply what I know or think I know. Got excited (thrilled) a few times but then idea sank like a heavy rock deep into the water of dispair. Not giving up. Still searching!

    • Hi Sheryl,

      I’ve done the same…there are so many Brown references and not much to go on. A few make sense, but vagueness definitely makes me put together things that wouldn’ otherwise fit or make sense.

      • Brown is a very common last name and has been for many years! I’ve learn about a lot of people and interesting stories. How they would relate to F is a whole other matter that seemingly is elusive to me.

        Found Brown Trout, Brown water and water facility plants, study of Ponderosa pines called the Brown study-lab in NM but in Albuquerque…oh how the list goes on.

        While I continue to look and study daily, I am more and more convinced that I will not be the person who finds this trove!

        • LOL! Yep, Sheryl, Brown certainly is a common name.

          There are also many distinctive shades of brown. Let’s take “auburn” for instance. If there is an identifiable location named Auburn(or any other shade of brown), fenn could honestly say it is brown. And since the name is Auburn, he can capitalize his Brown……and say “put in below the home of Brown”.

          Is it misleading? Nope, one just has to recognize what is brown.

          Yep, lotsa Browns out there. That is why it is imperative you solve the preceding clues, in order, or you will never identify the Brown!!

          oh yeah….IMO……..loco

        • You might find it. Brown is a building a legacy of making a transformative impact on the world,retaining a commitment to the belief that education and scholary are vital to the advancement of society. .

        • Sheryl Lynn. In my opinion, one thing that might well make the search easier for you is to use “Occam’s Razor” when considering various possibilities related to the clues. Occam’s Razor says if two options seem equally probable, the simpler solution is advised. Since it seems that there are nearly a dozen other poem references to phrases related to sport fishing, it might be best to consider that Brown simply means Brown Trout. Hint #1: I believe that WWWH is a precise synonym phrase for a specific named “famous” point which is near world-class trophy trout habitat in the Rocky’s. Hint #2: “Blue Ribbon Habitat”. Hint #3: I believe the blaze may be a large map feature which looks a lot like a common trail mark on a tree. I believe these hints will get you within a few miles and possibly a few hundred feet depending on what “down in the canyon” means. It seems that you go down to get to where you can go up so you can look down again. Best of Luck.

          • The name of the precise place didn’t change but the official reason for that name changed on the signs posted nearby. IMO, this is why FF said that the place would be sure for those who know where to start but hard for those who don’t. Never the less, the name means “where warm waters halt” in a strict sense.

  3. Does anyone else think HOB is Browning, Montana.
    Forrest said that when the book was published their was something on the map that surprised him, He said that it was the fact that the map stopped at the Canadian border. I think he may not be telling the whole truth.
    Browning is on the map.
    The clue is points to Browning. If you figure out the clue correctly it will take your search to a whole new level.
    The above is of course my opinion. I hope revealing this does not upset other searchers.
    Any thoughts?

    • Hi John,

      Hmm good try, but I think that would take Brown out of order. If you can start by finding Brown on the map you wouldn’t need the other clues ahead of it.

      • Jolly.
        Browning isnt the location of the chest. I didnt say it was. Believe me, I have been there and it is not a nice place.
        It is one of six places mentioned in the poem.
        Locate all six then join the dots to find the shape of the blaze. It makes the treasure map that a pirate would leave behind.
        IMO of course.

  4. ..is it just me, or does it seem ironically logical that “Brown” (with an upper-case B) seems like an easier clue to solve, yet possibly be a red-herring, in-so-much-as that LGFI cannot google her way past it?
    ..assuming of course HOB is the third clue

    it also strikes me as curious, that the Appalachian Mountains (eastern board) were mentioned, totally out of context, in that same comment ..and if Forrest was truly (hypothetically) sympathising with the LGFI, why didn’t he wish another chest be hidden in the Himalayas instead?

    was Forrest making a reference to east somehow? (ex-East India Trading Company, eastern Asia. Appalachians etc) ..could that be a clue that the chest is located on the eastern side of the Continental Divide maybe?

    (and no.. don’t even think about replying with more than 4000 words, Seeker)

    (or Tim!!.. ) 🙂

    • Hey now…I represent!!

      :o)

      How else will any of you understand me? Or get as far as you have without me.

      YOU NEED ME!!

      :o)

      BTW – IMO – hoB – historic reference

      • you’re right Tim, we def need ya mate – as HoD just wouldn’t be the same without you ..and your funny emouji’s 🙂

        jus fun’n Seeker – you always seem to tackle things with a level head and a logical mind ..so maybe we won’t make you walk the plank ..just yet 🙂

        but didn’t Forrest mention something about it’s possible to identify HoB, then work backwards to wwh (?)
        ..JDA probably knows more specifics than i do about that comment

        i construe “put in” as being a simple boating terminology rather than a ref to earlier clues – but that’s just me.
        oh, and why can’t Lil Indy travel down the canyon?
        (i promise not to ever tell anyone ..no, honestly!) 🙂

        • Do you think that someone who is sure about the location of the home of Brown could reverse-engineer where warm waters halt? ~Ben Raylor
          Thanks for the question Ben.
          If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt? But to answer your question, sure you could and a few searchers might throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take. Good luck.f

          CH, the answer, in form of a question is; why would you be concerned about where warm waters halt? In this case, wouldn’t that concern be nullified {wwwh} because you know where/what hoB is so you should know you have the correct wwwh?
          Can you still reverse engineer it, sure ya can. Ok I see my hoB and there’s the wwwh, and the canyon down and… etc.

          I’m not married to the thought of reading the poem this way… yet, it does seem to answer a lot of questions. Well, questions that concern me anyways.
          As far as Little Indy.. I didn’t say she can’t, I said she doesn’t have to. What fenn said, she “can not get closer” [ do you agree he meant closer to the chest? ] IF so, then the chest could be very close to where you start.
          Another words. you walk right to the solve and all the clues… if you know where to start.

          Logically she can’t get closer, but still needs to find that 10″ sq spot… that should be very close. In this theory anyways. A 200′ area maybe?

          The linear / literal group keeps going.

          • Yep – checks and balance throughout the poem.

            It some ways it seems like FF is “double-backing” his steps to confuse the “followers”.

            He is a tricky guy, so back to some of my original posts – you need to think like FF. This is the key to the solve.

        • bang on money Seeker, that’s the exact quote i had in mind – maybe i misunderstood your earlier question though “what if hoB is the clue that gets us to wwh?”

          as to Lil Indy being so close to the chest after solving the second clue, then perhaps you’re right, but i’m not easily buying it – imho “from there it’s no place for the meek” is also a clue which tends to denote that some distance is involved after locating HoB.

          i realise some interpretations of ‘searchers solving the first two clues, then going right past the chest’ suggest the chest is in close proximity to clue two – but i’m not sold on that theory either, as it may possibly have been some distance before they passed the chest (if the searcher emailed Forrest precise locations of their entire search, not knowing they were that close) – but i think we simply don’t have enough info to make an accurate judgement yet

          oh, and personally i believe stanza1 is the key to locating wwwh, given that whole ‘consecutive order’ thingy

          (and yes, i’m a big fan of the ‘linear/literal group’
          given that my brain is just way too small to ever be a Mensa member 🙂 )

    • OK CH,
      I’ll keep it short… only because you asked and I don’t want to give poor Ken an aneurysm.
      WhatIf hoB is the clue that gets us to wwh?
      WhatIF the wwh, canyon down, to far to walk is what refers to “put in.” {a stand alone sentence}
      If all the information is in the poem to find the treasure, and there are many wwwh in the RM’s… how does the poem tell us which one is correct.
      And to keep the post short… refer to those searchers who told fenn where they were and fenn knows they indicated the first two clues… but the searcher didn’t know.

      If you don’t have the first clue nailed down… stay home.
      What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.

      …Ken just threw his coffee cup at his monitor, pulling hair out, yelling SEEEKKERR Don’t Mess With The Poem…

      Oh and CH, In this scenario, Little Indy “can not get closer” because she doesn’t need to travel down the canyon…
      But there’s more to the scenario of why she can’t.

      • Seeker…there may be a lot more to it…and you can mess with the poem all you want.( not that you need my permission). I counted three “ifs” in your first paragraph…I don’t think that is going to solve HOB. Fenn has made a few comments about looking for HOB BEFORE getting there(figuratively). I will say that my scenario allows, that IF you have the correct WWWH…when you figure out how to get there, HOB will be somewhat obvious.
        The first clue is imperative to finding the second clue and so on. In order…
        I like it when you mess with the poem Seeker…keeps me in check and reminds me that there are some folks out there that are much wiser than me. Carry on.
        Little Indy should get a special memorial page…for all her efforts in absentia.

        • Ken,
          So far that is all anyone has… IF’s and theories. and many more throwing darts.

          The point is not about messing with the poem, but understand the poems process, after all it is a poem. The linear / literal thinking has fail horribly, and the first two clues comments seem to imply that. I’ve asked it before and I’ll ask it again… how can folks who live and breathe the chase not know a clue when on location, and also, indicated what a clue is to fenn and still not know?

          The idea they all took a wrong turn just doesn’t make sense. Especially since four clues may have been told of, and that/those searchers still didn’t know. [ per fenn’s comment ]

          I gave an example, maybe not the best example, of all the Walmarts as to wwwh. I used Joe’s crabshop as to hoB to locate the correct Walmart. If we need to find wwwh, out of all the wwwh in the RM’s, Might not the correct wwwh be~ put in below hoB… there only seems to be one of those, right?
          But it doesn’t change the order of the clues one bit… it reads the poem as instructions… to be followed.

          To begin [ at the correct ] wwwh [the many]… put in below hoB [the one]. Simple logic and deduction, but not so simple for the linear thinker.
          And I’ll add… it doesn’t change the second hand info that fenn supposedly stated… you need to find wwwh… In fact it makes more sense that to find the correct wwwh, out of the many, the poem must tell you where that one is.

          Ignore the first clue comment.
          Go back to the poem comment.
          one important possibility related to the winning solve comment.
          “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta.” f
          “…I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues. To me that’s just expensive folly. f ”
          “I think the problem that searchers make is that they don’t dwell long enough on the first clue.”
          In part below; Q&A
          a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
          b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
          Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve
          No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

          Note; “…determine the ***starting place*** {RM’s and wwwh} for your treasure trail? ~ Steve”

          IF wwwh was the actual starting place… why can’t we follow the trail?

          There’s my theory… examples/comments as arguments for… Have at it it. Why is it messing with the poem? nothing was changed.

          • Dear Patient one…
            “IF wwwh was the actual starting place…why can’t we follow the trail?”
            That…after all you said previous to that… is the answer to all of your worries Seeker. There is a major missing ingredient in that scenario. I call that ingredient…the first clue…the one that figuratively gets you half way home. It is a mind bender…as I think Fenn intended. I spilled my cold coffee in my lap so off I go to get more….

          • @Seeker wrote:

            “I gave an example, maybe not the best example, of all the Walmarts as to wwwh. I used Joe’s crabshop as to hoB to locate the correct Walmart. If we need to find wwwh, out of all the wwwh in the RM’s, Might not the correct wwwh be~ put in below hoB… there only seems to be one of those, right?”

            If I may be of some assistance…..

            if one were to use a Wal-Mart as the WWWH – then they can clearly eliminate many in the RMs, if the second clue doesn’t fall into place.

            Another checks and balance is the “hoB” – it is a check tot he seeker to ensure that they are correct, if they use the first two clues and the verification.

            For example…..the place someone needs to put in is “below the home of Brown”, but if you notice in the poem, one must be already at a spot in order to do this.

            Reverse those steps.

            Find a hoB….and then see if it is “north/above” a canyon or your WWWH.

            If these three clues mesh – then you are onto something.

            After all, if you can’t find your WWWH, maybe you can backdoor the clue, with a “check” of the next two clues.

            HINT: hoB – as I’ve stated is historically connected. If you find this place, you will only have a general area of WWWH and nothing discreet or exacting.

            If one were to begin with WWWH and try to find hoB, you will find that hoB will probably be a lot harder to decipher.

            Keep is “unsophisticated”.

            :o)

          • Ken,
            Now where talking about the first stanza, right? that is if we’re still in linear mode.

            I can’t argue that the first clue is not in stanza 1. I have my thoughts on this stanza as well.

            Without naming the ingredient, how about a taste? Some to actually roll around the buds to get the flavor.

          • Tim,
            First; “Historical records” needs to be defined… I refer to the comment; any knowledge of US history.
            Second; I do like the northern direction for down… get, got it, good… it doesn’t answer how to find the correct wwwh without the “need” for multiple guessing and searches. { there are many of those as well }
            Third; ~”if one were to use a Wal-Mart as the WWWH – then they can clearly eliminate many in the RMs, if the second clue doesn’t fall into place.”

            That’s a bit semantic, don’t ya think? I mean, if we could narrow down wwwh to be a water fall… out of all the other possible thoughts… that is still a crap load of waterfalls, right?

            Even if a dam was still in play. The number of dams that could work with a solve are also numerous… again… how do we nail down that clue without guessing and multiple needed searches.
            Or is that why this is such a difficult solve, all it comes down to is, we must stomp all over the RM’s to find the correct starting point?
            Nothing certain about that in my book.

          • Yes….there are many, many WWWH, canyons, hoB etc….in the RMs.

            It is required by us to eliminate as many non-locations as we possibly can.

            Does that mean we have to take each instance and work that instance all the way through?

            The answer would be yes, that is the path one should take. It is a difficult path, but not impossible. Sound familiar?

            FF is just not going to give this away……he planned it well.

            IMO – my suggestion above – worked for me – as I did what he told us to, by using his book, a map and GE.

            And yes, my first search was a guess, but after I began making my preparations to go, I found that CGI picture of FF in front of a lake with his hat floating above his head.

            I thought the lake looked familiar and it was….it was the same search area that I had planned on searching. How did I know it was the same…..I found 13 points of exact reference on my search area and the picture. Compared them and verified it was, when I arrived there months later and 1100 miles later. But it was wrong.

            But it helped me redefine my search to a more suitable region.

            Failing paid off for me the first time…..and I hope it completes with the pay-out next time.

            where I wanted to start just to see what kind of guess I could come up with. I managed to use that guess and complete a solve – go to the location I thought of, but came home empty handed like most.

            But I eliminated one path.

            And I was able to use some of the BOTG data I did manage to uncover to formulate another solve.

            This one….I’ve reviewed over and over – like the first time, and will move forward with it when I am able.

            Macro to micro I tell ya…..and of course….at some time in your thinking, you WILL need to choose a starting location…..

            Good luck!

          • I’d just like to chime in on one point.

            Seeker said “Second; I do like the northern direction for down… get, got it, good…

            In FF’s own words on page 41 of TTOTC,
            Sometimes, when it isn’t too cold, I’d get even with my father for switching me by jumping out of the window by my bed and walkingdown to the cemetery, which was just a block north of our house.

          • Could “down” actually mean ‘North”???

            Good thinking.

            If we were to use this type of “logic” – could “below” also mean “north”?

            Interesting.

          • Tim,

            I think it’s just an example of how the word “down” is loosely used to mean “away from” here.
            Down the street, down at the bowling alley, down at the high school, etc.

            In the previous example, that direction just happened to be north.

          • Some canyons and water creeks do run down hill in a northerly direction…

            Do not alway think that down is South.

            Down can be North.

          • This is true and what I have found.

            My point being is – could FF use the same ‘meaning” of each word – throughout the poem….or does it change.

            Ex. “look quickly down”……does this have a meaning “look quickly north” or is there a physical attachment to actually drop your head and “look downwards”.

            Do you see my point?

            Fennology is so twisted at times.

          • Tim,

            AGREED: Fennology is so twisted at times.

            or as I once heard from a fellow in east Texas,

            That’s messed up like a can of worms

          • Seeker…I’ve been talking about the first stanza all along(in regards to your comments). Many times. It’s a killer…
            Tim’s got a couple of after comments(in book form) …looks like a process of elimination theory(just kidding Tim) that I’m going to settle in with some cookies and milk.
            The first thing that comes to mind for your nibblet…is not cloves.

          • *winks*

            You guys won’t be saying much about my posts after I score the find!

            :o)

            I’m just trying to be more open-minded and helpful.

            Good luck!

          • Tim (zosorocks1)

            if you have that much of the poem figured out, what are you doing at home?

          • $1000.00 is my obstacle…..*sighs*…
            I can keep a secret.

            I’ll make a run to my spot NLT June of this year, just to check.

            Later than than it becomes more expensive for me.

      • on Dal’s previous blog….

        http://dalneitzel.com/tag/seeker/

        I think this answer has been updated with the comment FF made with that some people have figured out the first two clues…..

        IMO – you cannot figure out the poem with just he first clue. But the first clue will cause you to do much more investigating…..and even then…..one must have BOTG to solve completely.

        First use a macro look, then move to a micro look (GE is good for this), and then repeat it again when you find the area you want to seek.

      • Seeker ,

        Please allow my mind to spout in a little here.

        WhatIF the wwh, canyon down, to far to walk is what refers to “put in.” {a stand alone sentence}

        These are not direct articles . They are to me compounded ideologies. Truly there is only one definite article I can see in the poem .

        Sorry this is a little long , But , If there are nine clues in the poem , Then why dose the poem only refer to a single article .
        I agree to is the comment about kWh and hob , but only to a degree. I do believe that unless you can unlock the first stanza then WWH wont make any sense.
        Would I say that I may have unlocked such stanza. Yes I would . Forrest has rules. And I do believe he stated them in the poem .
        No I will not comment how or what made me think in the way that I am . But I can say , with certainly
        the first stanza in my opinion is the lock .
        I just may have found a key.

        Ps. Treasures
        Riches
        One is smaller then the other and you need more then one to equal the other .
        Just a thought
        Mr.D and my beautiful wife and treasure Heather.

        • IMO, the first stanza is referring to the secret location of the chest and the fact that only one person in the world knows for sure where it is. IMO, the second stanza says that the secret location isn’t far but is too far to walk so do something besides walking. IMO the third stanza says be quick about it or you will end up further away than where you started due to heavy waters.

    • Hobbit,
      I found it strange too, that when referring to the LGFI Forrest mentioned the Appalachians instead of the Himalayas, but I never knew what exactly to make of it. I like the way you think, curiouser and curiouser…

      • thanks Dulcinea – i find the Appalachian comment to be a very curiously random thing to say too, but maybe there’s a logical explanation that i have yet to stumble upon – otherwise it may very well be a big hint or even a small clue (?)

        luck with ya search 🙂

        • I don’t think this is original thinking but I subscribe: lil’ indy is east of the rockies and the treasure. The appalachians are closer thus the connection and a clue about how to interpret his comment. Indy can’t get closer because the treasure is in the area described by the first two clues. This is Forrest’s style as it is illustrated by TTOTC…

  5. Hobbit, question. Are you properly Homo Sapien and/or Curious Hobbit? I like how you are thinking. My thoughts re HOB also include FF’s unconventional capitalization style or lack thereof.

    • Additionally, Mr. Fenn has provided several recent posts that lead me to believe that history is very important. A +/-100 year old placename perhaps. A regional colloquial or military term no longer in common use?

    • Hi Sandy – yes, i do try to be human, but often fail miserably 🙂

      i agree that history may play a large part in solving the poem, and that historical place names are vital, esp those which relate directly to geography rather than towns or road names etc

      “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia..”

      i’m also convinced that Brown is no typo, and if this chase is to last hundreds of years, then HoB must be a place of importance that’s recorded in some historical document somewhere ..or on “the right map” perhaps?

  6. Getting in early:

    Searchers…. It is important to always remember that ff has indicated that the search could go on for decades, even a century.. all that time, requiring the HOB to be a stable, permanent, recognizable element of the poem withstanding the sands of time.

    • or prominent enough that one could find out where it was based on historical records.

      He has mentioned in the past about people finding his bells and finding out about him just by searching the internet…

      • ~ “He has mentioned in the past about people finding his bells and finding out about him just by searching the internet…”

        That’s , another, new one on me… where was this stated?
        My understanding is, fenn was burying the bells and jars for many years… even before the internet was thought of.
        That would be one heck of a fortune cookie.

        • Ill have to look it up. I came across the quote (or maybe it was a video of his) on a weekend FF fact finding binge. It was something I wasn’t searching for. It was either in regards to one of his bells with his name on it, or one of his buried jars with his autobiography. It was something to the effect of (paraphrasing) many years from now (I think it was thousands), when the Chinese have taken over the area, someone will find (either the bell or the jar with the autobiography) and they will wonder who this Forrest Fenn guy is and look him up on the internet.
          I’m sure someone else has seen it too.

  7. I have been reluctant to share my views on the ‘Home of Brown’. Deciphering the HOB is the single most important part of solving this puzzle (IMO).
    When Mr Fenn was asked about the Home of Brown he answered: “well that’s for you to find out. If I told you that, you would go right to the chest.”
    I will say that I have not heard or read any searchers interpretation of HOB that directly matches mine.

    -Randawg.

    • I know what it means, I also have not wanted to share it. I’m not actively looking for the chest, but the poem is simple.

          • I’d be willing to share my solve with the person willing to front the costs of a trip – approx $1000.00

            In return, I’m willing to give up 10 gold coins if successful.

            If not successful – like “charlie” stated – it will be a great vacation.

            ….of course….this is if the right person is interested…..*smiles*……

            Don’t say I didn’t offer…..*smiles*…..

            “Be the chest and keep it unsophisticated.”

          • Tim~”In return, I’m willing to give up 10 gold coins if successful.”

            Why not make it more inviting… say double or triple 5x’s your investment back and some gold coins to boot? Maybe add a couple stones tossed in as well… for the fact if you come back empty… they lose too.

            And folks call me cheap…

          • @ Seeker – hey thansk for the response…..you wrote:
            “say double or triple 5x’s your investment back and some gold coins to boot? Maybe add a couple stones tossed in as well… for the fact if you come back empty… they lose too.”

            There is a risk involved…..but I figured, since no one else threw this out….I figured it wouldn’t hurt if I did.

            Remember – no one has to take me up on this…..it was just a suggestion.

            To help someone in their decision….
            I’ve gone as far as to take a look at what is inside the chest and the picture of it with coins inside and the lid open.

            We all know of the many wonderful trinkets it includes – and Dal’s blog has those details, but in one of the few different pictures of the chest, I managed to identify about 4 different coins and their dates and what type of coin there are inside the chest. (1910, 1911 are a couple I remember – as I did this about 1.5 years ago).

            Of the four I investigated, three of them were each well over $750.00 each based upon NGC standards. Value depends up ont eh Mint Mark assigned…..It seems “O” being the “GEM” of either the 1910-11 coins – with values now into the tens of thousands for just one coin.

            Now if 10 coins are on average worth at least $750.00 each – and 10 are now worth $7500.00 – don’t you think that is a nice return on an investment?

            Initial cost = $1000.00

            I’ve not only beat the “double”, but relatively speaking – moved it to a 10 times the investment.

            Maybe I should have added – “Serious inquiries only please”, huh?

            :o)

          • Sorry – I meant to add….the two coins I did list above….one was a $10.00 coin and the other a $20.00 coin and I may have been incorrect on the Mint Mark data.

            So here are a couple of links for comparison to show values that could be assigned.

            $10 coin:
            https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/indian-head-10-1907-1933-pscid-68/1910-d-10-ms-coinid-18866
            https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/indian-head-10-1907-1933-pscid-68/1911-d-10-ms-coinid-18869

            $20.00 coin:
            https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/liberty-head-20-1850-1907-pscid-69/1907-d-20-ms-coinid-19053

          • “Why not make it more inviting… say double or triple 5x’s your investment back and some gold coins to boot? Maybe add a couple stones tossed in as well… for the fact if you come back empty… they lose too.
            And folks call me cheap…”

            @Seeker
            Why do you think a $1000.00 investment for me to do all the work is worth much more than I stated?

            Why would I even take something like that into consideration? I have a solve. I have to do the labor. I have to do everything. The provider releases the funds.

            FYI – I can come up with $1000.00 myself – in fact – already actively pursuing that mark.

            But here you are implying I’m “cheap”. Far from it. I’m basically giving someone a chance to make a return on $1000.00 that they may never get another chance to do nor will be seen in any market that exists.

            and……they have to do nothing.

            Sure it is a gamble…..but that is my play…..I have to verify the gamble….they don’t. I have to make the time to do the search….they don’t.

            You seem to want a whole lot more for not doing anything. It doesn’t sound like a WIN-WIN to me from your viewpoint.

            Remember – I will do this on my own…..I just figured this was an opportunity to “share the wealth” and of course, save some initial funding.

            *shrugs*

            So, in closing…..

            “Serious inquires only, please.”

            :o)

        • I’m probably not the right person by any definition to whatever than means… but, Maybe you can share why it’s capitalize?

          • I’m trying to fit the capital Brown into my solution. Right now I have brown trout as my HOB. Did I read somewhere that bighorn sheep are also known as brown? I’m thinking something like – and take it in the canyon down (Bighorn Canyon) not far but too far to walk put in below the HOB. So, Bighorn would refer to something that should be capitalized – Bighorn Canyon AND refers to brown bighorn sheep that live there. So Brown could refer to the name as well as the sheep that live there. Thoughts please?

          • Begin it where warm waters halt…

            Don’t over think this one! (This is my opinion offered as a thought).

            Best of luck!

          • Hi JBL

            i couldn’t find any reference (in wiki-wonderland) to big-horn sheep being called ‘brown’ – but i did find a subspecies called ‘Badlands big-horn sheep’ though

            ..no place for the meek?

            hope ya well 🙂

    • Randawg,
      Just a random thought. Although HOB appears to be a major clue, and I, like many others, have built solutions around it, that very quote from Forrest has lead me to consider that perhaps the HOB is not something one can readily identify on a map, or gain knowlege of beforehand, perhaps it is something only the finder of the chest will come to know.
      “We shall not cease from exploration
      And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started
      And know the place for the first time” TS Elliot.
      But then again, perhaps you are right about it being the most important clue to find Indulgence, and I’m only fooling myself into thinking it may not be. After all, what do I know? Not much. Good luck in your search.

    • Randawg, FF believes that hoB is a very important item
      that is (functionally, regarding the solve) close to a good solve. So I won’t tell you what/where my hoB is. And I
      think that you should keep yours a secret, as info about
      the correct hoB may be just the ticket for another searcher
      to hurry to the hidey space. I agree with FF that hoB is a very important item.

      I also believe that one or more of the searchers that have been within about 500 feet of the TC may well have identified what/where hoB is. But the subsequent clues weren’t solved well enough to put these searchers right where they needed to be to find the TC.

  8. The Poem

    I am a five year searcher – I have been on over fifty hunts and I have over 37 solves drawn out start to finish . I am disabled to a degree and this is what I do. So I study at least nine hours a day . The data I have is from a lot of sources; but all are first hand data . Some of the data is from interviewing these people who knew Mr. Fenn . I wanted to draw my own image of the man .
    One is the Mccracken Library in Cody Wy.
    Mr. Fenn worked there for a long time . He also has more treasures in there then I have seen in his home . He owns JH.Sharpes cabin as well as many many writings , paintings , and Indian jewelry . The collection in which you can find some of his beautiful artifacts is called The Adornment Collection .
    Mr. Fenn’s collection with in that collection that Mr. Fenn and his lovely wife Miss. Peggy left is called SUMMERS END. It comes out at the beginning of every summer and goes back into hiding until the next season . I believe It goes back in or around September. He has in the lower library nine books in a six foot white box.
    All I know is that Indy would start in a library . =)
    Good luck please feel free to comment I will bo on the blog a little today .
    Mfr.D

    No one likes to talk about the poem much .
    I found some data that is interesting . Considering I bust Fenn in all his
    bent but not broken statements in his book.
    First let me say , If I hid a chest like that . I would try to mislead you as far as I could until you ought on . So , I emailed Forrest some years ago
    about Whom the Bell Tolls . I told him his story was incorrect. The guy in the story was blowing up bridges not driving a ambulance. Although the story is accurate it is not correctly told. I make sure I tell him all the time about these
    “mistakes” in his books . One of his books I will not say which , he spells Taos as Towes . And I regularly tell him of these .
    I am sharing this one with you all , to show some of the misleading statements made by Mr. Fenn ; secreting a treasure by any means needed.
    The information that is incorrect here being listed now is form Forrest saying Sloane died waiting on a traffic light. That IS NOT CORRECT . He also had his birthday already , The meeting he was heading for was the release of the Book ” Almost Eighty ” , which I would encourage all to read. Here is the correct information about Mr. Sloane’s passing and he was holding on to a parking meter according to a eye witness.
    ” Shortly before the release of his last book, “Eighty”, on his way to meet his wife for lunch, Eric died instantly of a heart attack in New York, on March 5th, 1985, on the steps of the Plaza Hotel. Friends say it was the only time he was ever late. He is buried in Kent, Connecticut at the Sloane Stanley Museum.”

    This is just two of many I have found in The Thrill of The Chase.

    • Mr. D & Heather: you will have a hard time convincing some of the stubborn folks here that Forrest’s mistakes are anything but that: mistakes. You know otherwise. Some are so convinced Forrest is a bad speller, or doesn’t know the difference between Border’s and Borders, or incorrectly spells the names of close friends/colleagues/countries, or confuses the stories in For Whom the Bell Tolls and A Farewell to Arms. It’s why I posted elsewhere that they must think he’s senile. He’s not. He knows exactly what he’s doing. His continuing Scrapbooks show that he is entirely on top of things, and nearly everyone else is clueless.

      • Thanks of your reply .

        And yes I would agree with you here to a degree. But we all are in search of the same thing . To be honest , all wont say that . It’s personal you know.
        But , when words stop having meaning you will see more. I see your trail my friend . I have been on that very one for years. Good luck , and keep searching

        Preface=P Information = I Epilogue

        PIE

        Mr. D

    • Thank you very much for the information, Mr. D & Heather! As the son of a librarian, and thus growing up much of my childhood in a library myself, it warms my heart to know that Forrest was involved in working at what sounds like a very interesting library collection in Wyoming!

      I’m also interested in your description of the discrepancy between Forrest’s description of Sloane’s death and the conflicting evidence that you unearthed. What would be the purpose of such a discrepancy? Do you believe it to be an innocent faulty memory, or an intentional hint?

      • Hi Blex ,

        Completely intensional .
        I find nothing to be a mistake by Mr. Fenn .
        He is one of the best in my mind at mnemonics.
        I think his memory could carry a few elephants.
        I am truly sorry that I cannot tell you what the
        ” purpose ” is and why ? I think it would tell on my self .

        But I will leave a bread crumb for you to taste =)
        You can walk the poem in the Museum in Cody .,
        I think he was going to use a similar “poem”
        to hid 3,000 in gold dust for kids to search for in the museum , it was of college money . There are a few who know this already . At least about the treasure hunt that the museum turned down . Insurance things I would assume. =(
        But , start the poem in there at the Mountain top and follow it to the library . There are many many things in there that all must see. The Plains Indian section has more then enough geography for you to look at.
        And the natural section has every Brown rock you can think of. Heck you cant see color with out Brown light .
        Anyways – There are so many push button sent and things . A must on your way there . Is that where I think the treasure is .. Hummmmm sort of.

        Take care , ” I can keep my secret where ” ?

        • Thank you! I’d like to head up that way this year, and will try to make a stop at the library to check out the collection. I noticed some of Forrest’s collection of historical photographs is available on the Library’s website, but I know that’s not nearly as satisfying as seeing the real pieces in person. This sounds more interesting than your average town library! 🙂

  9. Subscribe. FWIW, and to parrot what others have said here; to my waking knowledge, no other searcher has declared here “my home of Brown,” for which I am thankful, as it gives me hope that I may be on the correct solve to finding Indulgence. Or it may simply mean that my guess is as bad as everyone else’s.

    • Same here…no one has mentioned my “hoB” either.

      We could have the same solve.

      ;o)

      If you are seeking in MT….we may very well have the same location of Brown.

      :o)

      Probably not, huh?….I had to dig through lots of details in order to find the one I am using – and that was over a period of two years. But it eventually fell into place and laid itself into my solve rather nicely……and that was only done after I had actual BOTG in a specific region.

  10. Home of brown, Mix the three colors that make brown, Mix other colors for different shades of brown, Like those of a rainbow, Thus the home of brown. The gold is at the end of a rainbow. Just go out in the Rockies and find a rainbow that matches up with the other clues.

  11. Funny and sad. I thought that I had the home of Brown figured out. I assumed it was the Red River fish hatchery. After looking deeper, I discovered that they only raise rainbow trout, not browns. Downstream from the hatchery, the Red River merges with the Rio Grande as I’m sure some of you know. I figured you would “put in” where the Rio Grande and Red River merge. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

    • MJ-
      If you did a bit of research on this blog you would find at least two well written stories with photos by searchers who have looked in that same area…
      Sometimes reading other searcher’s stories can help you formulate your own opinions and see the mistakes others have made..

        • Will someone please contact me about this. I have studied this for a long time, I’m homebound and cannot go on a search, but my view of the poem, it might open your eyes.

          • I need a partner page might help… It would hurt to give some basic info either.
            State, location, area of search for perspective people willing to hear what you might have.

          • Steve – are you seeking someone to search for you? – i’m sure Dal might be able to steer you towards someone if that’s the case (?)

          • Hi Steve Allen – welcome to the end of your life!

            Here you will be lonely, crazy, excited, dumbfounded, pulling your hair out of your head, and probably sitting in your underwear at many times in front of computer.

            :o)

            You really have taken a very large step toward being insane.

            I commend you.

            *applauds*

            Now for that help…….No.

            :o)

            You will have to do what many before you have done……read this blog’s content in the various ways Dal has offered it up to us.

            I think there are many here, like me, who have contributed with the help you are probably looking for.

            My suggestion – outside this blog…..is to listen to the many interviews or radio programs FF has been part of.

            I also like to suggest – “Be the chest!”

            Remote viewing is another option one can possibly find this elusive box.

            But as always – If you ask a question of me, I’ll respond…..but may not be the answer you are looking to receive.

            :o)

  12. Does anyone think the poem is connected to the murals at the denver international airport. Look at the murals and try and find the home of brown.

  13. Way upthread, seeker asked: “how can folks who live and breathe the chase not know a clue when on location, and also, indicated what a clue is to fenn and still not know? The idea they all took a wrong turn just doesn’t make sense.”
    ——————————————————————————————————-
    Forrest has already said you do not need to be “on location” to determine at least some of the clues. So the answer to your dilemma seems clear to me. Before you proceed to some location, know >>> the geography of the Rocky Mountains.

    Some serious searchers, those who “live and breathe the chase”, claim to know this and that about the poem and about history and about FF. But what many seem not to know about is >>> geography.

    It’s as if their only exposure to the subject is what they learned in TTOTC. But searchers don’t seem to want to talk about it. I once tried discussing the topic of geographic scale. Posters would have none of it. They wanted to talk about poetry instead, probably because they had no idea what geographic scale even means.

    So spend gobs of time looking for “clues” in TTOTC; brainstorm all you want about the HOB; argue back and forth about WWWH. But, in my opinion, you’re wasting your time until you correctly identify the first clue, which is based on geographic knowledge of the Rocky Mountains.

    Ken (in Texas)

    • I agree there Ken. as more time goes on searcher don’t like the idea of trying something different… stuck in one thought pattern and refuse to let ideas flow.
      I get it… all them hours and hours of research is hard to pass up… so they make it work Michael D just posted he works 9 hour days researching.

      If that is what is truly needed… scouring the kitchen sink for hundreds of clues to impale it all into the poem… I’ll step back and mow my lawn.

      • @ Seeker – I’ll spend hours just thinking about the poem and the clues, but in all actuality – I have a life outside this chase, and give it what I can and when I can.

        Shoot -t here were months that I didn’t do anything, except go over the poem in my mind to see if something clicks.

        Granted – there are a lot of folks out here searching a lot harder than I am.

        I guess I have “kept it simple”…..*smiles*…..

      • Hi seeker ,
        Hope you are well and in good spirit –

        No it’s not what is needed, because it is so simple right? May I remind you of the quote in TFTW . ” I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location before hand , but sure for the one who did” , SO no one knew anything nor had a idea of the location. The path is difficult but not impossible. But it is what I need . The hard road, I like bumps .If all were flat it would be boring . And I would only try to find challenges to keep my self busy .

        Thats why I message you . So I wont be , bored you know .
        And to be honest maybe you also need to fill your mind .There is nothing too small to learn and nothing to large to see . To set aside learning something completely to learn a newer way seems ill logical .I like to remember everything I learn . If it be possible to do such a thing? Where I never forget the roads of life I have traveled .
        And if my study of words and mnemonics , Denotation of Computer Language , and Cartography ,
        geography , Art , Science of Weather , Old road distances , Anthropology, Archeology (not that I get this stuff but I like to learn new things) ,Eric Sloane , Mary Cornwell, J.F.K , Henry Share, Shakespeare , Joe Billy Bob , C.E.S. , General Terry ,
        , Mr. Harvey , f’s coach , J.D. Salinger , All his friends in war, Eisenhower , Miss Olga , Miss Ford, George Burns
        Wild Bill , Sitting Bull , Hop Alone , the main street cowboys , Donny , Granny , old biddies , Plains Native Americans , Taos Native Americans , their customs and dances , and so many other things I had read about that are all to many to write …. But I tried to list them the best I could . Like stuff also like –
        Romanesque Lock Box’s ,
        And so if this makes me a fool , then a fool I am , and happy to be just one of many.
        Shakespeare used many fools . One in A play about wisdom . ” As you Like It ” , have you read it?
        Did you see the mistakes in TTOTC? And or any of the other things said in the book . Like where he was on January 28th 2010 . Im sure you did when you read it , but did you see it ?
        Did you see where he told us to imagine him in Catcher? Did you find the last time he was in Yellowstone ? By the date time and day ? Did you know the Book of Days is not correct ? Date it 1150 AD the Book of Days didn’t exist. You will look and try to correct me , But I can say with 100% certainty that I know that fact for sure. Information is a huge thing with Fenn . And all those things I found I found by study.
        Unlike the Grappette Can I found in Yellowstone Park . One time walking a old trial , In which I knew he was on that trail in the past . Or the power of a nickel . And and how’d he payed for all those soda pops ?
        Did you see the ball of string yet? Or the ” mistakes” – in the stories told by Mr. Fenn ? I ‘m just asking because you want to talk logic to a guy who cant even cut his own grass physically . Nope I cant do that , 60% of my right arms muscle mass is gone , there are 5 pins in that arm , as well as a bone in my neck with a plate and screws. So I admire you because you can . And I wish I could just cut the grass with ya .
        Logical arguments that do not show productivity are useless and have no Merritt. I sent the questions to show a different way to think, because I have already had so many different styles to see the poem .
        I do not see the Chase as a lot of folks do , I see something different in the middle . Centered if you will .
        Possibly in a kind of V.O.R. in some times past that brings me to this place now and this letter.
        Rudeness comes in many forms .
        – Like the rude girl who rose her coffee cup to Fenn .
        But most would say that is a clue…. Yes it is , but not the way they see it . You do not do that raise your coffee cup first for your self or text when a customer or guest as I put it ; approaches your register it’s rude. Not when you are in the business of making money for your self. You do that -no one will want to shop at your store.
        So – Seeker , I like you understandings in the past that I have read . But I also watch as you kind of
        rudely try to seem smarter or more logical then other searchers. Pushing against their will is one thing , shoving is another . Thanks F for that one.. No one else will say it so I will , Stop !!!!! It is against the very principles in which Logic is even thought .
        I hope you keep on your Y’s and I’s .
        I stopped that stuff along time ago. Im on to other solves in my mind that sound fun . But in the mean time I will keep working on the 100 or so I have going at all times.
        Logic would say , to help others and not demoralize there independent mind , but shed light into the mind to please them . Forrest Fenn was right about that . He was here to please others , I knew it ,just forgot it .
        I>K I have plenty of that . I have so many stories to tell , and I stink at it . =) Oh well some faults turn into beautiful canyons full of life and dreams.
        It had to be pounded into me . You know the small bone in your ear that looks like a anvil.
        Once I saw how it’s formed by the “mallet” I just couldn’t resist the chance to at least try myself.
        Good luck ….. Never stop seeking knowledge .
        Mr.D
        _ … ._. _ _ _ . _ _ _ .
        ” The Chest will stay there for all of time, or unless you find it ” by : Forrest Fenn- Fennboree Map
        And if I don’t find your box of gold Mr.Fenn Sir ,
        I at least gave it all I am and one Hell of a try …
        But I will continue into my many studies and
        dream dreams of Indy and I finding that chest somewhere , where even memory has gone.

        Mr. D
        ps. forgive the spelling please

      • In my opinion the problem searchers are having is not a matter of theoretical approach to the poem, as suggested by seeker. The problem is a simple lack of geographic knowledge.

        I wish I had a dime for every place in those four states that might have some relevance to the clues, that I have never ever seen referenced on this blog. I don’t think searchers even know these places exist.

        • @Ken – So true.

          Fenn constructed it to be that result….many choices, but only winner.

          I’m glad I have a fairly good knowledge of geology and geography. Right up my alley.

          • Lack of geographic knowledge doesn’t seem evident to most searchers, though, since about all we ever hear about are the usual search areas in northwest Wyoming and the tourist areas of northern New Mexico. Further …

            The average searcher, in my opinion, also has a number of misconceptions about this hunt that obstruct progress toward the correct location.

  14. I often speculate about how much time/research has been accumulated collectively on this search…The numbers must be staggering.
    It’s like thinking about how much fuel is currently sitting in parked vehicles world wide at any given moment. Just sitting there…
    The serious searchers do their homework and find info that either moves them forward or creates a road block. As has been pointed out scores of times, there are many aberrations and anomalies as presented by Fenn. And they are just that until a connection can be made. Sometimes it is wise to just let sleeping dogs be.
    Seeker…what is your definition of linear mode/thinking? And how does that equate to stomping? I’ve heard your way of describing it…but I can’t quite picture it as it relates to solving the poem. And I do agree with (KEN) that the first clue is imperative, albeit his method is not quite the same as mine.

    • Ken,
      Stomping, is a hunting term for following/tracking your game [ basically looking for scrapes, rubs, and other fresh markings {however, if not fairly good at this method you spook the game} ].
      The method equates to the point by point, 9 clues must all be places and traveled to. This imo, is the linear/literal method [stomping] to a solve… just simply follow the dotted line to the X that marks the spot… which many seem to adhere to. But to think linear, that all clues must be traveled to, automatically forces all clues to be places and must be stomped out.

      Where is the imagination in reading a poem if all we truly need to do is walk from point to point?
      Do we really know that “Not far but too far to walk” is a distance we need to travel > or even a distance at all? But the linear thinking forces it to be.
      Do we really know that “we/searchers” are being told to go down [ must travel ] a canyon?
      Again, the linear thinking forces that thought.
      Follow and lead, as we have been told about the clues, doesn’t have to mean a physical journey, but could be more an understanding, like following ‘instruction’ to lead to ‘an end result.’

      Of course, common sense says we need to go somewhere, and we need to be there to retrieve the chest… but, do we really need to stomp out, in linear form [ follow the dotted line ], 9 ‘places’ over many different distances?
      The linear thinking and stomping forces the clues to ‘have to’ be that way.

      I’m not saying it’s wrong [ although is seems not have worked very well. The many first two clues and possibly first four clues comments have brought that to light ]… I’m saying there is other ways to read/interpret a ‘poem’

      What I don’t like about the single stomping mode thought is, it leads to a domino effect; force a clue here and need to force another clue there, and on and on.

      I don’t expect many to look at the poem from different angles of reading… as you might have seen lately… many have the perfect solve, and the chest will be found this year. For sure. Again.

      • Sound argument. The linear way does force certain aspects of the poem to be just one thing. Also it forces to ignore many other ‘important’ words in the poem as just poetic fillers. Lines 5 and 6 are to blame imo.

      • Splitting hairs here, but I think what Seeker is describing is stalking – not stomping. Stomping is a loud noisy gait, certain to alert the game you are after so they can move away. Stalking is a careful, stealthful following of your quarry, looking for recent signs that it is just ahead.

        But he has the correct concept I believe – that is, you have to be not only aware of the signs your quarry has left for you to follow, but you must be totally aware of your surroundings so you do not miss the opportunity to shoot. It’s where we get the expression that a person does not see the forest for the trees. The warning for us is to look for the signs (see the trees) and see the quarry up ahead (be aware of the forrest and all it contains).

        My final comment along these lines is this, if you are looking for the chest, I think you’ll never find it. If you are looking for a place that the chest could be, you stand a better chance.

      • Swwott,
        Your correct in your term stalking. Just my quick explanation. Too many hunters today I label slob hunters… they don’t “stalk” but stomp through [ and too many with a sixpak clanging in their backpacks]… another reason [method] for this action is to force the game to a central [cornered] location for slaughter [ many stompers] . This technique was believe to be used by ancients hunting mastodons… but imo is not needed in this time period. Stalking is a more one on one and more of a challenge and learning experience. As ken stated, know your prey. However, today’s hunters and trophy hunters have given me a bad taste for hunting [ which I did for food supplement ]

        As you stated, and I think the difference to stalking and stomping might help in the chase, eye your surroundings… awareness is difficult when your not sure of what to look for.
        Maybe that is where imagination might be helpful.

  15. Seeker… I get where you are coming from, and most of your points seem correct on the surface. Coming from a line of successful “hunters”, I can relate. I will add that one very important aspect of hunting is to “know” your quarry inside and out…habits, likes, dislikes, habitat, etc.
    If we take the treasure out of the equation, what are we truly looking for?
    This really boils down to a place…does it not? Taken at face value, this place will only be located by starting somewhere…right? Imagination is more important than knowledge…perhaps the ability to see beyond what might be known or commonly noticed.
    From my point of view at this juncture I can say that after figuring out the first clue…the search area reduces dramatically. The begin point becomes obvious and the obstacles become evident. Deciphering the words saves the day and helps take the next step(stomp). Doing this uses more imagination. The poem is the vehicle that makes it evident that more thought is needed to get anywhere.
    All just ramblings of a failed but not beaten searcher. I’ll close this(not really finished) by asking you what you believe is the reason Little Indie blah blah blah. Java time….

    • Ken,
      I have asked the same question; “If we take the treasure out of the equation, what are we truly looking for?”
      And,
      Why I have asked; Could others like Osbourne or Meek have the same opportunity to locate the “place” with the same information we were given?

      Navigation was different then. More eyes and ears than GPS and Satellite mapping. It was not so much about knowing the land, but how to use the information available to traverse the land… stars, sunrise-sunset, mountain peaks, fix points etc. etc. just a tip if the iceberg, if you will.

      I’m not going to pretend I know what the correct method of reading the poem is… but using one method only, and if not the correct one… well, ya can stomp all day and night for 1000 years and never find it.
      I personally think the clues in the poem are much more cleverly thought out. The first two clues comments [ and now first four possibly ] have shown, at least for me, being there is not enough vs. understanding how it all folds together.

      • Yup… I will not pretend either. I just THINK if you take what you said above a couple of steps further and really look at it…you might see that it is more than “one method”….and absolutely the clues are more than clever. It could go either way….
        I am content to go on a few excursions and get better acquainted…I’m in no hurry. I’m also not inclined to cough up what I have discovered along the way. I don’t mind parrying a bit though…

        • But “places” may or may NOT have given names. I might find a “Cow Plop” in the middle of a field that was important in my solve, but it would not have a name – other than possibly in “Farmer John’s field”. Just Sayin’ JDA

          • Just saying…his statement indicates the clues are locations…and good luck to you.

        • Ken,
          Yep… The wording “each clue” and we know there’s 9, doesn’t give leeway to a clue not being a place.
          But maybe we should stick with location… IF for example, a clue refers to a river, is it a place or a location… semantic? Maybe. More cautious, at this point in time.

          Don’t ya like being patient… the after the fact comments may not get ya closer, but they seem to give that check and balance.

          lol.. Don’t be surprised when the ‘I know where the chest’ group twist it up and say ‘names’ of places/locations are a must to the solve…

          • Oh…you DO know it’s gonna happen !
            And I do prefer “location”…
            Can’t wait to see all the stories…
            I’m keeping true to what I have learnt along the way…stay flexible.

          • Well…there you have it. It has already happened… the twisting has begun. Chubby Checkers would be proud…

        • Yes ken,
          Places.
          Labeled or not.
          Marry them to a map.
          Each clue.

          Not thoughts, theories, ideas, but places.

  16. Could “put in” be a reference to a stake below the home of Brown which might begin the blaze, trail to the chest?

  17. Has anyone totally tried to use “all fishing terms” relating to this poem?

    Or…if this is F death poem…has anyone worked it from this angle?

    • I’ve been fishing for over 40 years and that knowledge has helped 0% so far. When FF said no special knowledge is needed I believe it. He’s even suggested kids look at the poem so I think people are over thinking it most of the time.

      • I love when F said he wished someone would take their bike and go get it! Wonder if that’s off trail, or that close to a street?

        Angel Fire is not only a ski resort, it’s a bike park too!

          • I’m a terrible note taker…do not have where I read that. My notes read as follows:
            F said he wished someone would “take a bike in there and get it.”

            I’m trying to be better at note taking and put references in margins.

            Sorry I’m not better help.

            If this helps you find the trove toss me a coin would you?!

    • Sheryl Lynn—

      Knot a whole lot. Me and a chum looked at the fishing terms, but wound up getting skunked. It’s a subject you kind of wade into carefully if you know what I mean.

  18. I talked about this true story before. I come from a small town in New Mexico. We didn’t have very much and when we did, it was the treasures I would find. When we went to take our trash to the dump near the Mescalero reservation, I would go looking for things. Walking through all the mountains of trash looking for bike parts. I would gather what looked like what I need to make a bike. I still remember those days when I was 8 or 9 year old. Now those were treasures when people would throw there old bikes in the dry creek. It was fun to yell out- look what I found! #inthewood #forrestfenn

    An Indian Scout and A Saint.

  19. Browns canyon nation monument is on the Arkansas River. There are two warm springs on either side just down a little ways (to far to walk). Put your boat in just below there. One of the warm springs is in wellsville (yes, like the movie “road to Wellsville”). This can all be seen on google maps.
    Further down the river is a town called coaldale (Blaze is a brand of coal, look up pics). At the end of that town is a creek called “Big Cottonwood Creek” (“if you are standing in the wood”), it is too small to paddle up. My guess is in a culvert or under a bridge because both cater to high water, and heavy loads drive over them.
    If you find it, think of me 🙂

  20. I didn’t know where else to post this so I’ll post it here. I was watching chase videos on you-tube and Forrest mentioned something I haven’t heard before. He says if your standing where the treasure is you can smell the Pinion pines. Strong hint !
    good luck

    • Hello Barry Weeks. You will find great information on this blog, as well as, help from other searchers. Mr. Fenn has mentioned he didn’t mean to say Pinyon.

    • Barry;

      This has been discussed many, many times. Here is Forrest’s quote – in full: “”If I was standing where the treasure chest is, I’d see trees, I’d see mountains, I’d see animals. I’d smell wonderful smells of pine needles, or pinyon nuts, sagebrush—and I know the treasure chest is wet. Well you’ve asked me a lot of questions and some of them—most of them I answered, a few I haven’t, but I’ve got to tell you—there’s one thing I told you I wish I had not.” f

      Later, Forrest clarified this statement by saying that he meant to say “Pine Needles” vs Pinyon Nuts – despite the fact that he had already mentioned Pine Needles.

      Pinyon (or Pinon) nuts are only found in NM and CO, and one SMALL spot in WY. Because of Forrest’s correction – do NOT put a lot of value in his statement. I would NOT disqualify WY or MO – Just a suggestion. JDA

          • Obviously I didn’t either! Dang-gum it!

            Don’t throw out Wyoming (WY) or Montana (MT)

          • Anyone run across the word Muleshoe? Been reading TTOTC but can not find it again…

          • You’re welcome,

            If, by chance, it’s *REALLY* helpful, toss me a gold coin when you find the trove! 🙂

            Best regards

          • Fennatical-you got it! Remember I’m the girl who had to ask what GE was and didn’t know unto an hour ago that the abbreviation for Montana was MT not MN…guessing MN is Minnesota!

            I’m determined as all get out! Just not as smart as y’all!

            Plans for the trove if I find it: render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and tithes, toss coins to those have helped, the bracelet to F, and the rest to buy supplies for homeless in Peru and build 12’x12′ wooden structures for them!

  21. the home of brown is indicated by the axeman drawing in TTOTC. the axeman cut down the trees to build a log cabin. this cabin is located at the Draper Museum of Natural History inside the Buffalo Bill Center of the West. the reason Brown is capitalized is because it indicates a proper name, but not Brown rather Byrd. the cabin at the Draper is the Byrd naturalist cabin. this explains the bird in the nest (at home) in the drawing. the reason there are stars in the drawing is because the sun never shines inside the museum to protect artifacts. its always night. to put in below this cabin requires visitors to proceed past the cabin, and begin their descent at the 10,000 foot level of elevation.

  22. I have the idea there is probably more than one Hob. I feel we need to find them on our own so we know their meaning. A canyon, or place to fish, or a hidey space address is likely not relevant if you were told. Maybe we need to know the context why “below the HOB” is important. There may be a secret can or there could just be, pins in a place on a map on my mac. Perhaps I stumbled upon or found a few different unique HOB’s:

    1.) one as a brown object or maybe a brown place. Perhaps a place where Rivers, bogs and sand can meet. But if your resolve is low you can’t I’d it or hoof your way through it. Punctuation can also easily change any Identification of any Brown to brown. Or consider what if it is simply one of the blazes as a trail marker below the HOB.

    2.) one HOB as a place in a map that is went up for sale recently and has a sale pending. But I wouldn’t tan myself over this. I could be saying this to simply throw you off.

    3.) A theory that one HOB had a blaze as a symbol and specific instructions in the poem and on a specific online posting.

    TLC

  23. My two cents on the HOB… it’s an out-of-place natural feature that is a brown color (at least more brown than its surroundings). I’m guessing since the searcher would be in a canyon at the point where HOB is encountered, it’s a large boulder or rock feature. Forrest has suggested that the clues are long-term and may last thousands of years. Things like trees, animals, even place names won’t stand the test of time. Glacially deposited boulders can definitely appear out of place and make great landmarks. Imagine a brown boulder deposited against or among a large area of gray granite… it would certainly stand out.

    But why capitalize “Brown?” My guess would be that it is a nickname that Forrest gave to the landmark. If brown weren’t capitalized, it would read as an adjective describing the word “home” (e.g. home of wood, shoes of red, etc.) By capitalizing Brown he’s directing the searcher to look for the location (home) of a feature nicknamed “Brown.”

    • I like this line of thinking! In fact I found several big brown spots on GE and laughed saying, no that’s too easy! Maybe…I should rethink this again.

      • Also, Forrest said that you can’t get past the first two clues using only a map and the poem, which indicates that the subsequent clues require you to physically be there, boots on the ground. In my opinion, the HOB clue is definitely past the first two clues.

        • Hi Michael….sounds like you are having just as much fun as we all are.

          Are you pulling out your hair yet? Better head to the “Barber Shop”, huh?

          :o)

          Actually – I disagree – I believe all the clues, except the final resting place can get the person into the vicinity of the chest…..one just needs to figure out the starting point.

          IMO – the starting point is one that I think needs to have BOTG.

          So in essence, I’ve just reversed everything that was said by many…..BOTG first, and if the starting point is known, the path can be found.

          Of course this is just my opinion…..I’m pretty sure many disregard my thinking, so take it or leave it, friend.

          Cheers and good luck to you.

          • Hey Tim, yep I’ve been thinking about this poem for a couple years I guess, and reading the forums from time to time.

            You have an interesting approach to the clues. How do you resolve the “little girl in India” situation?

            Can a little girl in India, who speaks good English, but only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains, work out where the treasure is? FF: The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues.

          • Hi Michael. I believe this statement to be true.

            In fact, no one can get past the first two clues if they do not know where to begin.

            Personally, I think BOTG is required……but I guess one could throw darts at the starting point and go from there……maybe that is what FF was referring to.

            IMO – one needs to know the starting point…..but I’ve also stated that the first three clues are sort of checks and balances to each other, so In some essence, if hoB can be found, and then verified to allow the previous two clues to work out into “hoB”, then one could literally move past the starting point, and work it from there. This method could be just as vast as beginning WWWH.

            Did I explain that well enough?

          • the little girl in India cannot get past the first two clues because she is not at the Buffalo Bill Center of the West. shes in India. the first stanza is describing the Buffalo Bill Center of the West. second stanza describes yellowstone. (WWWH) the home of Brown i told about in my post from April 5th. so the first two clues are:
            1. buffalo bill center of the west
            2. yellowstone
            The Draper Museum is billed as “the yellowstone experience”.
            now, the little girl in India has buffalo bill and yellowstone. but the wrong ones. this is why she cant get past the first two clues. you must physically be at the Draper Museum to follow the rest of the clues. not in India, not at yellowstone park.
            once inside the Draper, Home of Brown is the third clue. stanza three references the Draper experience.
            opinion mine.

          • And this Draper Museum will still be there 1,000 years from now?

            GONG !

            I doubt it!

  24. Fellow Searchers; I’m feeling generous. IMO, Brown is capitalized because it is talking about unusually large Brown trout that live where the nutrient-dense warm waters habitat transition to cooler water for most (if not all) months of the year. IMO “take it into the canyon down”, refers to taking your little float device down into the cold water of the canyon which may or may not be situated “down” stream. IMO you can ask your kids about parts of the solve but maybe they shouldn’t follow you and stay in the car since the end is close but too far to walk there. IMO, water high has special meaning here. In the wood may be the interior of the chest or where you can’t paddle up. If you carry half the load and cross the water again you finish the chase again in one afternoon and see why FF was tired. Otherwise, IMO, you must carry all 42 pounds to your float device in one trip.

    • Very nice theory, mensan_fennsan! You are indeed very clever and I wish you well on your search, IMO. Now go jump in a lake, IMO.

    • mensan_fennsan

      i enjoyed your comment re: carbon-dating vs magnetic polar flux etc, and am an avid fan of physics in all my limited capacities ( ..which are lotsa many)

      ..but an upper-case B is still simply a capital “B”
      (esp after 15 years of planning, imho)

      (please feel free to forward any legal documents/proceedings against this notion directly to Dal) 🙂

    • I don’t know how many searchers know this but Brown Trout are not native to North America so describing a body of water here as “home of Brown” seems strange to me as an angler.

      • to me, the recent scrapbook entries are suggesting Comanche indians and chickens which can be found in the chapter “me in the middle” from TTOTC. i see this as Forrest trying to hint at “me in the center”…. Buffalo Bill Center of the West, where the home of brown is located. also notice the photoshopped feet of his parents. here, he’s suggesting his parents were bad dancers having two left feet. or, that the blaze is feet.
        opinion mine.

    • I also explored the Brown trout angle for quite a while, but eventually gave up. In my mind there are just too many possible HOBs where brown trout are concerned. “Home” to a trout could be the spawning headwaters, ideal feeding areas (as you mentioned), locations where they were originally introduced (like the Nez Perce creek in Yellowstone), and so on.
      I still feel like the HOB is a natural unique feature within the search area, possibly geologic, that will stand the test of time.

      • In addition to the home of the brown trout – it was an introduction into the US from Canada. Some think that Lake Ennis was the starting point at one time, and it currently is a “home of brown trout”.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRiJXdX6T7A

        But I am in agreement with you…..the hoB can be many things….and not just a reference to “brown trout”.

        We also have an artist, UPS hub city, historic references galore, animals, and possibly a natural “brown” look for something.

        • Thanks. I say there are browns and there are Browns when it comes to trout. Hint: “Blue Ribbon Trophy Trout”. This may well give you GPS coordinates to within 2 or 3 miles if you google this term along with the state name IMO.

    • Brown – so is it a noun, a proper noun, an adjective or some composite of the two or more possibilities? (I suppose the word could be a verb in the sense of browning a toilet stall, but I digress). How you define the word is going to determine what you are looking for when searching.

      I tend to agree with many here that it is not something named after a person, place or thing (color), but rather a description of an immovable/unchangeable feature found out in the wood. But that’s only my opinion, and until I pick up Indulgence, that’s not worth very much amongst this crowd. 🙂

      • Brown, John Brown. He was the last of the Navajo code talkers of WWII. He lived in Crystal, New Mexico. That’s NW of Santa Fe. Hope this helps a searcher.

  25. Rickinflorida;

    On 9 clues you asked the following question: “How far below do you folks think the “put in” is from the actual “home” of…?”

    To answer your question.: In my solve, the “Put In” spot is less than a few yards from a road that leads to my hoB.

    Rather than actually going down a body of water, from my wwwh – in the canyon down – I am driving down a road that parallels my body of water. I travel about 10 miles. I then “put in” BELOW the hoB.

    The point that I “put in” is below (South of, and lower in elevation) another (smaller) body of water that joins my larger body of water.

    My hoB is ON or very near, this smaller body of water.

    As it happens, two roads meet the road that I was traveling on to get to the “put in” point. The left fork goes to my hoB, the right fork goes to my “meek” place – confusing enough? JDA

    • I guess I am asleep – The RIGHT fork goes to my hoB, and the LEFT fork goes to my meek place. Now you MUST be confused – I am. JDA

      • JDA, My thoughts are very similar to yours, except at my convergence are two streams instead of two roads…one stream coming down the canyon from my wwwh with a dirt lane running parallel to the steam down the canyon and the other stream with the heavy loads and water high coming down a draw on the other side of the ridge that separates the two streams until they converge at a Y. Lots of recreationists would have passed within 200 feet of this Y. I’m keeping my fingers crossed…not that the treasure chest is there but that this unusually deep snowpack will melt before August. Good luck to you!

  26. JDA,
    Take “it” in the Canyon down; driving this road into the Canyon. One road, into the Canyon. Down might not mean elevation, but the direction of the road. Not far, but too far to walk is an addendum telling you to drive to the Put in which is “below the home of Brown.” Brown is capitalized. This is a significant clue. Below can be interpreted differently. Can it mean a fishing regulations cut off point at your put in or maybe an elevation above you to confirm home of Brown. The clues in the poem are contiguous and therefore when driving into the Canyon, you will proceed to the put in which he tells us is below the home of Brown. He drove there.
    When you reach the Put In, Forrest then tells you “There’ll be no paddle up your creek.” So in this location there is a creek. IMHO – He might be telling us don’t go up the Creek.
    Forrest Fenn says:
    March 24, 2016 at 3:56 pm

    A hypothetical example of a “what if” might be, what if I was looking so far ahead that I neglected to notice what was beside me.

    • Debi;

      You say, “When you reach the Put In, Forrest then tells you “There’ll be no paddle up your creek.” – You forgot, “From there it’s no place for the meek, the end is ever drawing nigh;” As you say, the clues in the poem are contiguous – so don’t skip over any of them, as you did with me. EVERY clue is vital.

      Look at every clue. Have you ever asked yourself why the line reads “…the end is EVER drawing nigh?” EVER means more than once. Why would the END be drawing nearer MORE THAN ONCE? There is a logical reason why. Study it and figure out why – It MAY mean a BIG difference in your solve. Just the mutterin’ of an OLD fool. JDA

      • The end is ever drawing nigh; I might after looking at
        “200 feet” think the ever drawing nigh means left of your Put IN.

      • I was focusing in on the Home of Brown – and yes I purposely didn’t include “the end is ever drawing nigh” This to me sounds like a hint “ever drawing nigh.
        It doesn’t give you a location, but tells you, beware; it’s close.
        .

    • 10200 feet. Home of brown. One famous woman was married to a rich man at 10200 ft. I know close to its location

      • Larry-
        You might be talking about Maggie (aka Unsinkable Molly) Brown, married in Leadville, CO at just under 10,200ft. Many folks have followed that possible HOB and also explored Maggie’s home in Denver. As far as I know, no one has explored her birth home in Hannibal, MO.

  27. Another thought…
    The Nearest Brown dwarf lies in the constellation VELA, which is Latin for “sails”. The Vela constellation is in the family called “Heavenly Waters”. Maybe the home of Brown is in the stars. Has anyone considered areas of the Rockies or lands of native tribes that were naming natural places on earth based on celestial navigation. Just random thoughts from a dim bulb.

    • Fenn stated you only need “the poem and a good map”
      . (sic)I don’t see how the constellations are relevant. That would take some research. JMHO

      • On some maps stars are charted my their magnetic declination. If I remember correctly similar magnetic lines are marked on Fs map of the Rockies as well. Could be feasible…I like it Bob!

      • Debi,
        You are probably right but I’ve exhausted a zillion Brown’s and come up short. So, it occurred to me that there are celestial navigation maps and pilots of Mr. Fenn’s caliber probably know how to use them. Probably a stretch to locate a home of Brown in the sky, unless…..

        • It is a good idea. Stars have a specific latitude and longitude. I had thought that the Blaze might be a star with a position that corresponded to a position somewhere on the map. I thought that Polaris might be the star since it is used to navigate. I came up short, but it is worth a look.

  28. IMO :

    I dotty think I would remark on this subject , AT ALL!!!

    I like to share , but that would be the nail in the coffin so to say .\

    What do you all think?

  29. GOD is LOVE. Why try and help me and throw wrong temptations out there also , Also try get me to trespass to get to my solve ,I’ll figure out how to get permission then go get it. So I just threw one back at you bloggers. Forgive me if I hurt you. I already said I would share equally with my team . Have a Blessed day.

  30. I think the home of Brown is just that the home of a person named Brown. I do think it is a well known person and particularly one Forrest knew or knew of. As for the clues lasting, nothing has been more recorded or is easier to research than real estate owners. This won’t change in the next 200 + years probably more. My parents do genealogy and they routinely dig up records several hundred years old from a time with only a written, archived court house records or church records existed… no digital record. If your search clues show you something but you are hesitant because the home of Brown does not seem iconic enough…go for it anyway you just never know. Especially if you can put Forrest into the town or as an acquaintance. There are a lot of famous Brown’s in Colorado but I haven’t been able to put together anything reasonable on any of them, from the clues in the poem….but I have one smoking hot lead on a guy named Brown that Forrest knew in a town not too far away. The clues I find in the poem all fit into place, are in order and match my interpretation of things. I just need some snow to melt before I can go look!

    • From other things he’s said, I doubt that ff would have inflicted that potential for unwanted attention on any of his acquaintances.

      Except, I guess, if he really didn’t like the guy . . . 🙂

      iMo
      K

      • Just ask the Brown’s who own the Brown Ranch east of Folsom Falls how much they like Fenn’s poem. Before the Map came out and eliminated that area, their place was over run by mindless searchers…might be one of the reasons Fenn released a map.

        • I’ve eliminated the use or need to use – any private land in my solve.

          Land that I have deemed to be not searchable:

          (this information is not for “aMp” to read or use)….*winks*……JK aMp…..I hope one post will find to have your interest.

          Tribal – I would not even know where to begin, just to go on this type of land. With that thought, I would think FF also thought this out as well, and does not want any “trouble” to follow a searcher. Going onto this type of land, will definitely bring in circumstances that no seeker wants to tackle or try to avoid.
          – Just eliminate it wholly

          OSFS – “On Site Field Supply” – I believe that this acronym is correct, as it seems to be logical enough to fit. Correct me if I am wrong.

          What did you learn?
          – You learned that certain land can be very detrimental to a search, thus the elimination of those lands can narrow your search.

          IMO.

          Cheers to all!

          • It has been eliminated wholly , I found the old post you were referring to some years ago, But that still seems the best way to approach for my solve the lower route is just to crappy Not worth it. route 444 seems best, We just cant leave out the people of the plains the treasure can be shared with them also. Very Sorry for any comment I made that my have hurt somebody that was never my intention. asking for your forgiveness. we’ve all heard the term be still and know that I am God that’s what I’ve been doing.

    • I like the fossil idea. Floressant Colorado has a bunch a little far from Mt Princeton hot springs but cold not warm waters do halt in a lake near there and gem hunters delight.

    • I am leaning towards Brown trout and Brown peoples. I have a spot in mind with both but have to wait till mid summer when the high water recedes and I can cross the heavy loads enough to get there. It does have a blaze not many people know of. I believe there are cardinal directions. No and So and nigh …..in the poem. Also hints of nearby landmarks.

          • I do….it will be roughly an 1100+ mile trip for me to go and search.

            Soon the TC Gods will be calling on me to put my action into motion.

            Is the “Windy City” the place where you are?

          • Born and raised in the Windy City. Moved to the burbs at age 14. in 1994 I moved to suburban Saint Louis due to a job transfer. I am still here. I asked because my sister in law lives in Bosque Farms just south of ABQ. We stayed with her for a week prior to Fennboree last year. Won’t be at Fennboree this year due to health reasons. Perhaps next time we visit out there we could meet up.

  31. I hold a BS in cartography. There are some items such as bench marks to be considered and possible last/long hints but I am convinced it is not that difficult. I don’t think finding this requires a degree (pun). I don’t think it will be in the front range either the geothermal activity seems to be further west. I am going to focus on Colorado too far to MT and WY and I hate MM because it’s too hard on my dogs feet w stickers. I am an Okie.

  32. Definition …Brown Relating or belonging to a human group characterized as having relatively dark-coloured skin (chiefly used of peoples of ancestry other than European or African)

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