Home of Brown…Part Three

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This page is now closed to new comments. To continue the discussion please go to the latest Home of Brown page.

This is for a discussion about “the home of Brown” in Forrest’s poem.

Got an HOB that didn’t work out…or maybe you need an HOB for a certain area…or perhaps you have an idea that needs some fleshing out..

This is the place to discuss all things HOB…

dal…

698 thoughts on “Home of Brown…Part Three

      • I think you misinterpreted fenns possible message to you in scrapbook 130. In my opinion he was referring to the nobody guy everyone hates and how he lost his chance. I also think he was asking you to step up. Depends how you recognize the trigger words. It’s also possible that he has abandoned the whole trigger word thing but I doubt it since he has stated that a “she” will be surprised to see what is in the chest. I kind of wish he didn’t spoil it that much but maybe it was a typo. I doubt it though. Either way fenn is a hero for this treasure hunt

        • How about St. Mary’s it’s it’s a she and we do have brown trout in Colorado.

          • Cynthia-
            There is no reason for St. Mary’s not to be the HOB as long as the clues in the poem take you there…
            But I don’t think you can simply say it could be “here” because we have Brown trout in CO.
            Best to start at the beginning and see where the clues lead you than start in the middle…in my opinion…

    • Well there is Mt. Cleveland, 10,479 feet in northern Montana… not quite at the top… and just above the 10,200 feet max 🙂 happy hunting

      • There’s also a Cleveland Gulch in New Mexico.

        A random Google Earth scan of the Rockies in the search area reveals so many places that could potentially fit with different aspects of the verse. An Eldorado here, an Owl Creek there, a Forrest Highway over there.

        Some might say a Butte is the home of Brown!

        But unless you’ve solved the preceding clues in order, it seems ill-advised to leap ahead.

  1. IMHO….a HUGE hint…and my contribution to finding Indulgence this season:

    The question isn’t “what is the home of Brown”, rather, “what is put in below the home of Brown?” – The answer – a basement! “Brown” is capitalized simply to indicate that it is a proper name, a homeowner’s name.

    ~Wisconsin Mike

    • Wisconsin Mike, I appreciate your thinking on this . . .
      that’s one angle I haven’t seen before. But (since I am
      one) I tend to think like an engineer, and am a stickler for logic. So . . .

      When one “puts in” a basement, the basement is dug or
      constructed before the house/home above it, right? It’s hard for me to imagine the house existing first, with
      anybody (i.e., Brown) living in it, before the basement is
      “put it” or built. So I don’t believe that your line of thinking
      is what FF had in mind when he wrote the poem. If you’re suggesting that the TC was “put in” (placed) in a
      basement or cellar below the home of someone named
      Brown, then you have to deal with the fact that FF has
      told us that the TC is not associated with any structure.

      But keep thinking! Ideas that most other searchers have
      not had are the kind that will help solve the poem. Good
      luck in your solving and searching.

      • Now there’s some music in that song. Nice work!

        In the basement of our lives is it love, truth, our times?
        or all three???

      • I don’t follow the thought that basement is what we are looking for regarding “put in below the home of Brown”. I only wanted to add that the SW PA coal mining patch town that I grew up in, and still own a house in, were built without basements in 1917. When the company sold the houses to the workers in the 1950’s full size basements were dug out below the homes. Never say never when it comes to ingenuity to fulfill a desire or need.

        Lyzeebella
        Always place safety first

      • I always assiciate anyclue as to not be any structure/man made..in the clues. Forrest did say it wasnt associated with any structures…what say u?

    • Just a thought but there are other reasons it could be capitalized besides just a persons name. Such as a specific place, town, historical site. If fact in many ways the only way it would not be capitalized is if it was used in reference to color. Even then it could be. If you are looking things up(we know he likes google) Brown Trout, Bear, University, Cleveland Browns and a host of others come capitalized.

  2. Many capitol “B’s” for Brown throughout all four states. Having had a difficult time with WWWH, I tried finding any Brown I could and then backtracking to WWWH. F is correct. Solve in order. I’m taking one state at a time and trying to apply what I know or think I know. Got excited (thrilled) a few times but then idea sank like a heavy rock deep into the water of dispair. Not giving up. Still searching!

    • Hi Sheryl,

      I’ve done the same…there are so many Brown references and not much to go on. A few make sense, but vagueness definitely makes me put together things that wouldn’ otherwise fit or make sense.

      • Brown is a very common last name and has been for many years! I’ve learn about a lot of people and interesting stories. How they would relate to F is a whole other matter that seemingly is elusive to me.

        Found Brown Trout, Brown water and water facility plants, study of Ponderosa pines called the Brown study-lab in NM but in Albuquerque…oh how the list goes on.

        While I continue to look and study daily, I am more and more convinced that I will not be the person who finds this trove!

        • LOL! Yep, Sheryl, Brown certainly is a common name.

          There are also many distinctive shades of brown. Let’s take “auburn” for instance. If there is an identifiable location named Auburn(or any other shade of brown), fenn could honestly say it is brown. And since the name is Auburn, he can capitalize his Brown……and say “put in below the home of Brown”.

          Is it misleading? Nope, one just has to recognize what is brown.

          Yep, lotsa Browns out there. That is why it is imperative you solve the preceding clues, in order, or you will never identify the Brown!!

          oh yeah….IMO……..loco

        • You might find it. Brown is a building a legacy of making a transformative impact on the world,retaining a commitment to the belief that education and scholary are vital to the advancement of society. .

        • Sheryl Lynn. In my opinion, one thing that might well make the search easier for you is to use “Occam’s Razor” when considering various possibilities related to the clues. Occam’s Razor says if two options seem equally probable, the simpler solution is advised. Since it seems that there are nearly a dozen other poem references to phrases related to sport fishing, it might be best to consider that Brown simply means Brown Trout. Hint #1: I believe that WWWH is a precise synonym phrase for a specific named “famous” point which is near world-class trophy trout habitat in the Rocky’s. Hint #2: “Blue Ribbon Habitat”. Hint #3: I believe the blaze may be a large map feature which looks a lot like a common trail mark on a tree. I believe these hints will get you within a few miles and possibly a few hundred feet depending on what “down in the canyon” means. It seems that you go down to get to where you can go up so you can look down again. Best of Luck.

          • The name of the precise place didn’t change but the official reason for that name changed on the signs posted nearby. IMO, this is why FF said that the place would be sure for those who know where to start but hard for those who don’t. Never the less, the name means “where warm waters halt” in a strict sense.

  3. Does anyone else think HOB is Browning, Montana.
    Forrest said that when the book was published their was something on the map that surprised him, He said that it was the fact that the map stopped at the Canadian border. I think he may not be telling the whole truth.
    Browning is on the map.
    The clue is points to Browning. If you figure out the clue correctly it will take your search to a whole new level.
    The above is of course my opinion. I hope revealing this does not upset other searchers.
    Any thoughts?

    • Hi John,

      Hmm good try, but I think that would take Brown out of order. If you can start by finding Brown on the map you wouldn’t need the other clues ahead of it.

      • Jolly.
        Browning isnt the location of the chest. I didnt say it was. Believe me, I have been there and it is not a nice place.
        It is one of six places mentioned in the poem.
        Locate all six then join the dots to find the shape of the blaze. It makes the treasure map that a pirate would leave behind.
        IMO of course.

      • It is more like skipping the first clues than taking it out of order. Someone could choose the correct Brown even if they have no information telling them it is correct. Heck someone could just say they think the blaze is one of the giant arrows from the transcontinental air mail routes and if they are correct not use any clues before that and find the treasure.

        FF has repeated that start at the beginning, so while it would be possible it is highly not recommended to skip any clues.

        Imagine stopping at a gas station and asking for directions to somewhere and ignoring the first third of the directions getting in your car and driving away. You still have a possibility of finding the HOB the attendant mentioned but your chances are much smaller than if you follow the directions prior to that.

    • JohnR, at one point I thought you were searching near my search area. Your response tells me otherwise. I wish I could guide you by drawing direction to the chest for you with my finger. I put off my search due to weather. In doing so, I gave myself more time to reflect on my solve. Like your interpretation of below the home of Brown, my focus was not in focus. I believe, now, that I was wrong about some of the subsequent clues. I finally found one major clue I had been looking for. No wonder f said a kid could figure it out. That was f being tricky, or at least alluding to it! Ha, ha, ha, ha ha, boy he’s funny. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha…..

      • Hey Slurbs
        When do you plan to go looking? It is no secret that I believe Mr Fenn hid the chest in Glacier National Park. Is that where you are headed?
        Best of luck Sir.

        • Delayed response- Not subscribed. I plan to search in the first few days of September, no where near Glacier National Park. I will search sooner if there is a good break in the rain forcast. At this time, I am very confident in saying that if I do not find Indulgence in my next search, then I expect to be returning with a good deal of other gold. The clues add up. I could be that I find f’s treasure AND a good deal of other gold. I have been 200-500 feet of where I plan to search and I would not be surprised if other searchers have been 200 feet away as well. Meanwhile, I think I’ll check into another searchers thoughts of where he/she thinks the chest is at.

          • Slurbs, My crew and I will be going to WY and MT in a couple weeks, i would like to know more of your seeking. Maybe we can work together.

            Email:hbartisans@gmail.com

  4. ..is it just me, or does it seem ironically logical that “Brown” (with an upper-case B) seems like an easier clue to solve, yet possibly be a red-herring, in-so-much-as that LGFI cannot google her way past it?
    ..assuming of course HOB is the third clue

    it also strikes me as curious, that the Appalachian Mountains (eastern board) were mentioned, totally out of context, in that same comment ..and if Forrest was truly (hypothetically) sympathising with the LGFI, why didn’t he wish another chest be hidden in the Himalayas instead?

    was Forrest making a reference to east somehow? (ex-East India Trading Company, eastern Asia. Appalachians etc) ..could that be a clue that the chest is located on the eastern side of the Continental Divide maybe?

    (and no.. don’t even think about replying with more than 4000 words, Seeker)

    (or Tim!!.. ) 🙂

    • Hey now…I represent!!

      :o)

      How else will any of you understand me? Or get as far as you have without me.

      YOU NEED ME!!

      :o)

      BTW – IMO – hoB – historic reference

      • you’re right Tim, we def need ya mate – as HoD just wouldn’t be the same without you ..and your funny emouji’s 🙂

        jus fun’n Seeker – you always seem to tackle things with a level head and a logical mind ..so maybe we won’t make you walk the plank ..just yet 🙂

        but didn’t Forrest mention something about it’s possible to identify HoB, then work backwards to wwh (?)
        ..JDA probably knows more specifics than i do about that comment

        i construe “put in” as being a simple boating terminology rather than a ref to earlier clues – but that’s just me.
        oh, and why can’t Lil Indy travel down the canyon?
        (i promise not to ever tell anyone ..no, honestly!) 🙂

        • Do you think that someone who is sure about the location of the home of Brown could reverse-engineer where warm waters halt? ~Ben Raylor
          Thanks for the question Ben.
          If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt? But to answer your question, sure you could and a few searchers might throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take. Good luck.f

          CH, the answer, in form of a question is; why would you be concerned about where warm waters halt? In this case, wouldn’t that concern be nullified {wwwh} because you know where/what hoB is so you should know you have the correct wwwh?
          Can you still reverse engineer it, sure ya can. Ok I see my hoB and there’s the wwwh, and the canyon down and… etc.

          I’m not married to the thought of reading the poem this way… yet, it does seem to answer a lot of questions. Well, questions that concern me anyways.
          As far as Little Indy.. I didn’t say she can’t, I said she doesn’t have to. What fenn said, she “can not get closer” [ do you agree he meant closer to the chest? ] IF so, then the chest could be very close to where you start.
          Another words. you walk right to the solve and all the clues… if you know where to start.

          Logically she can’t get closer, but still needs to find that 10″ sq spot… that should be very close. In this theory anyways. A 200′ area maybe?

          The linear / literal group keeps going.

          • Yep – checks and balance throughout the poem.

            It some ways it seems like FF is “double-backing” his steps to confuse the “followers”.

            He is a tricky guy, so back to some of my original posts – you need to think like FF. This is the key to the solve.

        • bang on money Seeker, that’s the exact quote i had in mind – maybe i misunderstood your earlier question though “what if hoB is the clue that gets us to wwh?”

          as to Lil Indy being so close to the chest after solving the second clue, then perhaps you’re right, but i’m not easily buying it – imho “from there it’s no place for the meek” is also a clue which tends to denote that some distance is involved after locating HoB.

          i realise some interpretations of ‘searchers solving the first two clues, then going right past the chest’ suggest the chest is in close proximity to clue two – but i’m not sold on that theory either, as it may possibly have been some distance before they passed the chest (if the searcher emailed Forrest precise locations of their entire search, not knowing they were that close) – but i think we simply don’t have enough info to make an accurate judgement yet

          oh, and personally i believe stanza1 is the key to locating wwwh, given that whole ‘consecutive order’ thingy

          (and yes, i’m a big fan of the ‘linear/literal group’
          given that my brain is just way too small to ever be a Mensa member 🙂 )

    • OK CH,
      I’ll keep it short… only because you asked and I don’t want to give poor Ken an aneurysm.
      WhatIf hoB is the clue that gets us to wwh?
      WhatIF the wwh, canyon down, to far to walk is what refers to “put in.” {a stand alone sentence}
      If all the information is in the poem to find the treasure, and there are many wwwh in the RM’s… how does the poem tell us which one is correct.
      And to keep the post short… refer to those searchers who told fenn where they were and fenn knows they indicated the first two clues… but the searcher didn’t know.

      If you don’t have the first clue nailed down… stay home.
      What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve.

      …Ken just threw his coffee cup at his monitor, pulling hair out, yelling SEEEKKERR Don’t Mess With The Poem…

      Oh and CH, In this scenario, Little Indy “can not get closer” because she doesn’t need to travel down the canyon…
      But there’s more to the scenario of why she can’t.

      • Seeker…there may be a lot more to it…and you can mess with the poem all you want.( not that you need my permission). I counted three “ifs” in your first paragraph…I don’t think that is going to solve HOB. Fenn has made a few comments about looking for HOB BEFORE getting there(figuratively). I will say that my scenario allows, that IF you have the correct WWWH…when you figure out how to get there, HOB will be somewhat obvious.
        The first clue is imperative to finding the second clue and so on. In order…
        I like it when you mess with the poem Seeker…keeps me in check and reminds me that there are some folks out there that are much wiser than me. Carry on.
        Little Indy should get a special memorial page…for all her efforts in absentia.

        • Ken,
          So far that is all anyone has… IF’s and theories. and many more throwing darts.

          The point is not about messing with the poem, but understand the poems process, after all it is a poem. The linear / literal thinking has fail horribly, and the first two clues comments seem to imply that. I’ve asked it before and I’ll ask it again… how can folks who live and breathe the chase not know a clue when on location, and also, indicated what a clue is to fenn and still not know?

          The idea they all took a wrong turn just doesn’t make sense. Especially since four clues may have been told of, and that/those searchers still didn’t know. [ per fenn’s comment ]

          I gave an example, maybe not the best example, of all the Walmarts as to wwwh. I used Joe’s crabshop as to hoB to locate the correct Walmart. If we need to find wwwh, out of all the wwwh in the RM’s, Might not the correct wwwh be~ put in below hoB… there only seems to be one of those, right?
          But it doesn’t change the order of the clues one bit… it reads the poem as instructions… to be followed.

          To begin [ at the correct ] wwwh [the many]… put in below hoB [the one]. Simple logic and deduction, but not so simple for the linear thinker.
          And I’ll add… it doesn’t change the second hand info that fenn supposedly stated… you need to find wwwh… In fact it makes more sense that to find the correct wwwh, out of the many, the poem must tell you where that one is.

          Ignore the first clue comment.
          Go back to the poem comment.
          one important possibility related to the winning solve comment.
          “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta.” f
          “…I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues. To me that’s just expensive folly. f ”
          “I think the problem that searchers make is that they don’t dwell long enough on the first clue.”
          In part below; Q&A
          a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and
          b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”
          Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve
          No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal?

          Note; “…determine the ***starting place*** {RM’s and wwwh} for your treasure trail? ~ Steve”

          IF wwwh was the actual starting place… why can’t we follow the trail?

          There’s my theory… examples/comments as arguments for… Have at it it. Why is it messing with the poem? nothing was changed.

          • Dear Patient one…
            “IF wwwh was the actual starting place…why can’t we follow the trail?”
            That…after all you said previous to that… is the answer to all of your worries Seeker. There is a major missing ingredient in that scenario. I call that ingredient…the first clue…the one that figuratively gets you half way home. It is a mind bender…as I think Fenn intended. I spilled my cold coffee in my lap so off I go to get more….

          • @Seeker wrote:

            “I gave an example, maybe not the best example, of all the Walmarts as to wwwh. I used Joe’s crabshop as to hoB to locate the correct Walmart. If we need to find wwwh, out of all the wwwh in the RM’s, Might not the correct wwwh be~ put in below hoB… there only seems to be one of those, right?”

            If I may be of some assistance…..

            if one were to use a Wal-Mart as the WWWH – then they can clearly eliminate many in the RMs, if the second clue doesn’t fall into place.

            Another checks and balance is the “hoB” – it is a check tot he seeker to ensure that they are correct, if they use the first two clues and the verification.

            For example…..the place someone needs to put in is “below the home of Brown”, but if you notice in the poem, one must be already at a spot in order to do this.

            Reverse those steps.

            Find a hoB….and then see if it is “north/above” a canyon or your WWWH.

            If these three clues mesh – then you are onto something.

            After all, if you can’t find your WWWH, maybe you can backdoor the clue, with a “check” of the next two clues.

            HINT: hoB – as I’ve stated is historically connected. If you find this place, you will only have a general area of WWWH and nothing discreet or exacting.

            If one were to begin with WWWH and try to find hoB, you will find that hoB will probably be a lot harder to decipher.

            Keep is “unsophisticated”.

            :o)

          • Ken,
            Now where talking about the first stanza, right? that is if we’re still in linear mode.

            I can’t argue that the first clue is not in stanza 1. I have my thoughts on this stanza as well.

            Without naming the ingredient, how about a taste? Some to actually roll around the buds to get the flavor.

          • Tim,
            First; “Historical records” needs to be defined… I refer to the comment; any knowledge of US history.
            Second; I do like the northern direction for down… get, got it, good… it doesn’t answer how to find the correct wwwh without the “need” for multiple guessing and searches. { there are many of those as well }
            Third; ~”if one were to use a Wal-Mart as the WWWH – then they can clearly eliminate many in the RMs, if the second clue doesn’t fall into place.”

            That’s a bit semantic, don’t ya think? I mean, if we could narrow down wwwh to be a water fall… out of all the other possible thoughts… that is still a crap load of waterfalls, right?

            Even if a dam was still in play. The number of dams that could work with a solve are also numerous… again… how do we nail down that clue without guessing and multiple needed searches.
            Or is that why this is such a difficult solve, all it comes down to is, we must stomp all over the RM’s to find the correct starting point?
            Nothing certain about that in my book.

          • Yes….there are many, many WWWH, canyons, hoB etc….in the RMs.

            It is required by us to eliminate as many non-locations as we possibly can.

            Does that mean we have to take each instance and work that instance all the way through?

            The answer would be yes, that is the path one should take. It is a difficult path, but not impossible. Sound familiar?

            FF is just not going to give this away……he planned it well.

            IMO – my suggestion above – worked for me – as I did what he told us to, by using his book, a map and GE.

            And yes, my first search was a guess, but after I began making my preparations to go, I found that CGI picture of FF in front of a lake with his hat floating above his head.

            I thought the lake looked familiar and it was….it was the same search area that I had planned on searching. How did I know it was the same…..I found 13 points of exact reference on my search area and the picture. Compared them and verified it was, when I arrived there months later and 1100 miles later. But it was wrong.

            But it helped me redefine my search to a more suitable region.

            Failing paid off for me the first time…..and I hope it completes with the pay-out next time.

            where I wanted to start just to see what kind of guess I could come up with. I managed to use that guess and complete a solve – go to the location I thought of, but came home empty handed like most.

            But I eliminated one path.

            And I was able to use some of the BOTG data I did manage to uncover to formulate another solve.

            This one….I’ve reviewed over and over – like the first time, and will move forward with it when I am able.

            Macro to micro I tell ya…..and of course….at some time in your thinking, you WILL need to choose a starting location…..

            Good luck!

          • I’d just like to chime in on one point.

            Seeker said “Second; I do like the northern direction for down… get, got it, good…

            In FF’s own words on page 41 of TTOTC,
            Sometimes, when it isn’t too cold, I’d get even with my father for switching me by jumping out of the window by my bed and walkingdown to the cemetery, which was just a block north of our house.

          • Could “down” actually mean ‘North”???

            Good thinking.

            If we were to use this type of “logic” – could “below” also mean “north”?

            Interesting.

          • Tim,

            I think it’s just an example of how the word “down” is loosely used to mean “away from” here.
            Down the street, down at the bowling alley, down at the high school, etc.

            In the previous example, that direction just happened to be north.

          • Some canyons and water creeks do run down hill in a northerly direction…

            Do not alway think that down is South.

            Down can be North.

          • This is true and what I have found.

            My point being is – could FF use the same ‘meaning” of each word – throughout the poem….or does it change.

            Ex. “look quickly down”……does this have a meaning “look quickly north” or is there a physical attachment to actually drop your head and “look downwards”.

            Do you see my point?

            Fennology is so twisted at times.

          • Tim,

            AGREED: Fennology is so twisted at times.

            or as I once heard from a fellow in east Texas,

            That’s messed up like a can of worms

          • Seeker…I’ve been talking about the first stanza all along(in regards to your comments). Many times. It’s a killer…
            Tim’s got a couple of after comments(in book form) …looks like a process of elimination theory(just kidding Tim) that I’m going to settle in with some cookies and milk.
            The first thing that comes to mind for your nibblet…is not cloves.

          • *winks*

            You guys won’t be saying much about my posts after I score the find!

            :o)

            I’m just trying to be more open-minded and helpful.

            Good luck!

          • Tim (zosorocks1)

            if you have that much of the poem figured out, what are you doing at home?

          • $1000.00 is my obstacle…..*sighs*…
            I can keep a secret.

            I’ll make a run to my spot NLT June of this year, just to check.

            Later than than it becomes more expensive for me.

          • Seeker,
            Just now read your comments from several months ago. I am intrigued with the concept of backtracking to WWWH from hoB. There are possibly thousands of places that match WWWH in the Rockies. However, there are probably only dozens of geographically documented places named Brown (historical or otherwise). I think this may be equivalent to your Walmart and Joes Crab Shack analogy.

            Here is an example of an actual ground search which I did which parallels your idea. I found a location with the name Brown based on possible coordinates extracted from one of Fenn’s books . To be clear, I am somewhat skeptical of hidden coordinates, but these numbers do seem plausible. The location is not historical as far as I know and is just a mundane geographic feature in a sort of off-the-beaten-path location in terms of tourist travel. But if you backtrack upstream along the adjacent canyon/road a few miles you come to a Divide Road. This is a regional watershed divide, which can be interpreted as “where warm waters halt”. So there you have it – reverse engineered location for WWWH.

            So of course, what about the rest of the clues? Not saying, except that even if my particular search area isn’t correct, it could apply to the ultimate treasure solve.

      • on Dal’s previous blog….

        http://dalneitzel.com/tag/seeker/

        I think this answer has been updated with the comment FF made with that some people have figured out the first two clues…..

        IMO – you cannot figure out the poem with just he first clue. But the first clue will cause you to do much more investigating…..and even then…..one must have BOTG to solve completely.

        First use a macro look, then move to a micro look (GE is good for this), and then repeat it again when you find the area you want to seek.

      • Seeker ,

        Please allow my mind to spout in a little here.

        WhatIF the wwh, canyon down, to far to walk is what refers to “put in.” {a stand alone sentence}

        These are not direct articles . They are to me compounded ideologies. Truly there is only one definite article I can see in the poem .

        Sorry this is a little long , But , If there are nine clues in the poem , Then why dose the poem only refer to a single article .
        I agree to is the comment about kWh and hob , but only to a degree. I do believe that unless you can unlock the first stanza then WWH wont make any sense.
        Would I say that I may have unlocked such stanza. Yes I would . Forrest has rules. And I do believe he stated them in the poem .
        No I will not comment how or what made me think in the way that I am . But I can say , with certainly
        the first stanza in my opinion is the lock .
        I just may have found a key.

        Ps. Treasures
        Riches
        One is smaller then the other and you need more then one to equal the other .
        Just a thought
        Mr.D and my beautiful wife and treasure Heather.

        • IMO, the first stanza is referring to the secret location of the chest and the fact that only one person in the world knows for sure where it is. IMO, the second stanza says that the secret location isn’t far but is too far to walk so do something besides walking. IMO the third stanza says be quick about it or you will end up further away than where you started due to heavy waters.

    • Hobbit,
      I found it strange too, that when referring to the LGFI Forrest mentioned the Appalachians instead of the Himalayas, but I never knew what exactly to make of it. I like the way you think, curiouser and curiouser…

      • thanks Dulcinea – i find the Appalachian comment to be a very curiously random thing to say too, but maybe there’s a logical explanation that i have yet to stumble upon – otherwise it may very well be a big hint or even a small clue (?)

        luck with ya search 🙂

        • I don’t think this is original thinking but I subscribe: lil’ indy is east of the rockies and the treasure. The appalachians are closer thus the connection and a clue about how to interpret his comment. Indy can’t get closer because the treasure is in the area described by the first two clues. This is Forrest’s style as it is illustrated by TTOTC…

    • I haven’t read nearly every quote from FF so I may be wrong in my thinking on dome things.

      That being said is it possible the little girl in India cannot get any closer because she has a physical starting point? I don’t believe he said anything about her not being unable to solve any clues past that.

      I am in Oklahoma and to get closer to the chest I just need to face the mountains and take a couple of steps. As soon as I come up with a starting point I will not get any closer until I have BOTG in that area.

      If correct that also means that any clue that gives a starting point the LGFI cannot get closer than that. He may be giving slight misdirection by saying she cannot get closer than the 2nd clue. His statement would hold true for any and all clues that give me a physical starting point. So if the first 6 clues can do that she cannot get closer than clue 2 is true, she cannot get closer than clue 5 is true, she cannot get closer than clue 1 is true.

      Hope I have missed a quote of his and I am wrong, if not sorry for adding another stack of hay onto the pile the needle is hiding in.

          • I still see nothing indicating a person who is unable to have BOTG not being able to solve more of the poem than the first two clues. It is possible they could solve the first 7 clues and still not be able to get closer than having a physical starting point.

      • Hi Chris…et al…

        I was just thinking about the “LGFI” scenario and why she can’t get past those first two clues…..and my thinking has come up with….

        – because she doesn’t have BOTG to continue
        – she could have very well been at WWWH, and Forrest somehow knew this information, and is now playing in facts, because the LGFI didn’t know anything about the treasure hunt when she was physically at WWWH.

        To me, this seems like a very plausible situation, considering YNP is a major tourist attraction inside and outside the US.

        IMO of course.

        Good luck to all.

  5. Hobbit, question. Are you properly Homo Sapien and/or Curious Hobbit? I like how you are thinking. My thoughts re HOB also include FF’s unconventional capitalization style or lack thereof.

    • Additionally, Mr. Fenn has provided several recent posts that lead me to believe that history is very important. A +/-100 year old placename perhaps. A regional colloquial or military term no longer in common use?

    • Hi Sandy – yes, i do try to be human, but often fail miserably 🙂

      i agree that history may play a large part in solving the poem, and that historical place names are vital, esp those which relate directly to geography rather than towns or road names etc

      “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia..”

      i’m also convinced that Brown is no typo, and if this chase is to last hundreds of years, then HoB must be a place of importance that’s recorded in some historical document somewhere ..or on “the right map” perhaps?

  6. Getting in early:

    Searchers…. It is important to always remember that ff has indicated that the search could go on for decades, even a century.. all that time, requiring the HOB to be a stable, permanent, recognizable element of the poem withstanding the sands of time.

    • or prominent enough that one could find out where it was based on historical records.

      He has mentioned in the past about people finding his bells and finding out about him just by searching the internet…

      • ~ “He has mentioned in the past about people finding his bells and finding out about him just by searching the internet…”

        That’s , another, new one on me… where was this stated?
        My understanding is, fenn was burying the bells and jars for many years… even before the internet was thought of.
        That would be one heck of a fortune cookie.

        • Ill have to look it up. I came across the quote (or maybe it was a video of his) on a weekend FF fact finding binge. It was something I wasn’t searching for. It was either in regards to one of his bells with his name on it, or one of his buried jars with his autobiography. It was something to the effect of (paraphrasing) many years from now (I think it was thousands), when the Chinese have taken over the area, someone will find (either the bell or the jar with the autobiography) and they will wonder who this Forrest Fenn guy is and look him up on the internet.
          I’m sure someone else has seen it too.

  7. I have been reluctant to share my views on the ‘Home of Brown’. Deciphering the HOB is the single most important part of solving this puzzle (IMO).
    When Mr Fenn was asked about the Home of Brown he answered: “well that’s for you to find out. If I told you that, you would go right to the chest.”
    I will say that I have not heard or read any searchers interpretation of HOB that directly matches mine.

    -Randawg.

    • I know what it means, I also have not wanted to share it. I’m not actively looking for the chest, but the poem is simple.

          • I’d be willing to share my solve with the person willing to front the costs of a trip – approx $1000.00

            In return, I’m willing to give up 10 gold coins if successful.

            If not successful – like “charlie” stated – it will be a great vacation.

            ….of course….this is if the right person is interested…..*smiles*……

            Don’t say I didn’t offer…..*smiles*…..

            “Be the chest and keep it unsophisticated.”

          • Tim~”In return, I’m willing to give up 10 gold coins if successful.”

            Why not make it more inviting… say double or triple 5x’s your investment back and some gold coins to boot? Maybe add a couple stones tossed in as well… for the fact if you come back empty… they lose too.

            And folks call me cheap…

          • @ Seeker – hey thansk for the response…..you wrote:
            “say double or triple 5x’s your investment back and some gold coins to boot? Maybe add a couple stones tossed in as well… for the fact if you come back empty… they lose too.”

            There is a risk involved…..but I figured, since no one else threw this out….I figured it wouldn’t hurt if I did.

            Remember – no one has to take me up on this…..it was just a suggestion.

            To help someone in their decision….
            I’ve gone as far as to take a look at what is inside the chest and the picture of it with coins inside and the lid open.

            We all know of the many wonderful trinkets it includes – and Dal’s blog has those details, but in one of the few different pictures of the chest, I managed to identify about 4 different coins and their dates and what type of coin there are inside the chest. (1910, 1911 are a couple I remember – as I did this about 1.5 years ago).

            Of the four I investigated, three of them were each well over $750.00 each based upon NGC standards. Value depends up ont eh Mint Mark assigned…..It seems “O” being the “GEM” of either the 1910-11 coins – with values now into the tens of thousands for just one coin.

            Now if 10 coins are on average worth at least $750.00 each – and 10 are now worth $7500.00 – don’t you think that is a nice return on an investment?

            Initial cost = $1000.00

            I’ve not only beat the “double”, but relatively speaking – moved it to a 10 times the investment.

            Maybe I should have added – “Serious inquiries only please”, huh?

            :o)

          • Sorry – I meant to add….the two coins I did list above….one was a $10.00 coin and the other a $20.00 coin and I may have been incorrect on the Mint Mark data.

            So here are a couple of links for comparison to show values that could be assigned.

            $10 coin:
            https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/indian-head-10-1907-1933-pscid-68/1910-d-10-ms-coinid-18866
            https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/indian-head-10-1907-1933-pscid-68/1911-d-10-ms-coinid-18869

            $20.00 coin:
            https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/liberty-head-20-1850-1907-pscid-69/1907-d-20-ms-coinid-19053

          • “Why not make it more inviting… say double or triple 5x’s your investment back and some gold coins to boot? Maybe add a couple stones tossed in as well… for the fact if you come back empty… they lose too.
            And folks call me cheap…”

            @Seeker
            Why do you think a $1000.00 investment for me to do all the work is worth much more than I stated?

            Why would I even take something like that into consideration? I have a solve. I have to do the labor. I have to do everything. The provider releases the funds.

            FYI – I can come up with $1000.00 myself – in fact – already actively pursuing that mark.

            But here you are implying I’m “cheap”. Far from it. I’m basically giving someone a chance to make a return on $1000.00 that they may never get another chance to do nor will be seen in any market that exists.

            and……they have to do nothing.

            Sure it is a gamble…..but that is my play…..I have to verify the gamble….they don’t. I have to make the time to do the search….they don’t.

            You seem to want a whole lot more for not doing anything. It doesn’t sound like a WIN-WIN to me from your viewpoint.

            Remember – I will do this on my own…..I just figured this was an opportunity to “share the wealth” and of course, save some initial funding.

            *shrugs*

            So, in closing…..

            “Serious inquires only, please.”

            :o)

        • I’m probably not the right person by any definition to whatever than means… but, Maybe you can share why it’s capitalize?

          • I’m trying to fit the capital Brown into my solution. Right now I have brown trout as my HOB. Did I read somewhere that bighorn sheep are also known as brown? I’m thinking something like – and take it in the canyon down (Bighorn Canyon) not far but too far to walk put in below the HOB. So, Bighorn would refer to something that should be capitalized – Bighorn Canyon AND refers to brown bighorn sheep that live there. So Brown could refer to the name as well as the sheep that live there. Thoughts please?

          • Begin it where warm waters halt…

            Don’t over think this one! (This is my opinion offered as a thought).

            Best of luck!

          • Hi JBL

            i couldn’t find any reference (in wiki-wonderland) to big-horn sheep being called ‘brown’ – but i did find a subspecies called ‘Badlands big-horn sheep’ though

            ..no place for the meek?

            hope ya well 🙂

    • Randawg,
      Just a random thought. Although HOB appears to be a major clue, and I, like many others, have built solutions around it, that very quote from Forrest has lead me to consider that perhaps the HOB is not something one can readily identify on a map, or gain knowlege of beforehand, perhaps it is something only the finder of the chest will come to know.
      “We shall not cease from exploration
      And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started
      And know the place for the first time” TS Elliot.
      But then again, perhaps you are right about it being the most important clue to find Indulgence, and I’m only fooling myself into thinking it may not be. After all, what do I know? Not much. Good luck in your search.

    • Randawg, FF believes that hoB is a very important item
      that is (functionally, regarding the solve) close to a good solve. So I won’t tell you what/where my hoB is. And I
      think that you should keep yours a secret, as info about
      the correct hoB may be just the ticket for another searcher
      to hurry to the hidey space. I agree with FF that hoB is a very important item.

      I also believe that one or more of the searchers that have been within about 500 feet of the TC may well have identified what/where hoB is. But the subsequent clues weren’t solved well enough to put these searchers right where they needed to be to find the TC.

      • It could also be possible to have the correct HOB but the clues leading up to it wrong. People who start with HOB and work backward to make it fit could be risking exactly that. Imagine an X one line being the correct path and one line being the wrong path and the point they intersect is HOB. Wrong path can lead you to correct HOB but you will fail because you are on the wrong path.

        Also possible to take the wrong path to get to right HOB and take correct path from there although I see that as much less likely.

  8. The Poem

    I am a five year searcher – I have been on over fifty hunts and I have over 37 solves drawn out start to finish . I am disabled to a degree and this is what I do. So I study at least nine hours a day . The data I have is from a lot of sources; but all are first hand data . Some of the data is from interviewing these people who knew Mr. Fenn . I wanted to draw my own image of the man .
    One is the Mccracken Library in Cody Wy.
    Mr. Fenn worked there for a long time . He also has more treasures in there then I have seen in his home . He owns JH.Sharpes cabin as well as many many writings , paintings , and Indian jewelry . The collection in which you can find some of his beautiful artifacts is called The Adornment Collection .
    Mr. Fenn’s collection with in that collection that Mr. Fenn and his lovely wife Miss. Peggy left is called SUMMERS END. It comes out at the beginning of every summer and goes back into hiding until the next season . I believe It goes back in or around September. He has in the lower library nine books in a six foot white box.
    All I know is that Indy would start in a library . =)
    Good luck please feel free to comment I will bo on the blog a little today .
    Mfr.D

    No one likes to talk about the poem much .
    I found some data that is interesting . Considering I bust Fenn in all his
    bent but not broken statements in his book.
    First let me say , If I hid a chest like that . I would try to mislead you as far as I could until you ought on . So , I emailed Forrest some years ago
    about Whom the Bell Tolls . I told him his story was incorrect. The guy in the story was blowing up bridges not driving a ambulance. Although the story is accurate it is not correctly told. I make sure I tell him all the time about these
    “mistakes” in his books . One of his books I will not say which , he spells Taos as Towes . And I regularly tell him of these .
    I am sharing this one with you all , to show some of the misleading statements made by Mr. Fenn ; secreting a treasure by any means needed.
    The information that is incorrect here being listed now is form Forrest saying Sloane died waiting on a traffic light. That IS NOT CORRECT . He also had his birthday already , The meeting he was heading for was the release of the Book ” Almost Eighty ” , which I would encourage all to read. Here is the correct information about Mr. Sloane’s passing and he was holding on to a parking meter according to a eye witness.
    ” Shortly before the release of his last book, “Eighty”, on his way to meet his wife for lunch, Eric died instantly of a heart attack in New York, on March 5th, 1985, on the steps of the Plaza Hotel. Friends say it was the only time he was ever late. He is buried in Kent, Connecticut at the Sloane Stanley Museum.”

    This is just two of many I have found in The Thrill of The Chase.

    • Mr. D & Heather: you will have a hard time convincing some of the stubborn folks here that Forrest’s mistakes are anything but that: mistakes. You know otherwise. Some are so convinced Forrest is a bad speller, or doesn’t know the difference between Border’s and Borders, or incorrectly spells the names of close friends/colleagues/countries, or confuses the stories in For Whom the Bell Tolls and A Farewell to Arms. It’s why I posted elsewhere that they must think he’s senile. He’s not. He knows exactly what he’s doing. His continuing Scrapbooks show that he is entirely on top of things, and nearly everyone else is clueless.

      • Thanks of your reply .

        And yes I would agree with you here to a degree. But we all are in search of the same thing . To be honest , all wont say that . It’s personal you know.
        But , when words stop having meaning you will see more. I see your trail my friend . I have been on that very one for years. Good luck , and keep searching

        Preface=P Information = I Epilogue

        PIE

        Mr. D

    • Thank you very much for the information, Mr. D & Heather! As the son of a librarian, and thus growing up much of my childhood in a library myself, it warms my heart to know that Forrest was involved in working at what sounds like a very interesting library collection in Wyoming!

      I’m also interested in your description of the discrepancy between Forrest’s description of Sloane’s death and the conflicting evidence that you unearthed. What would be the purpose of such a discrepancy? Do you believe it to be an innocent faulty memory, or an intentional hint?

      • Hi Blex ,

        Completely intensional .
        I find nothing to be a mistake by Mr. Fenn .
        He is one of the best in my mind at mnemonics.
        I think his memory could carry a few elephants.
        I am truly sorry that I cannot tell you what the
        ” purpose ” is and why ? I think it would tell on my self .

        But I will leave a bread crumb for you to taste =)
        You can walk the poem in the Museum in Cody .,
        I think he was going to use a similar “poem”
        to hid 3,000 in gold dust for kids to search for in the museum , it was of college money . There are a few who know this already . At least about the treasure hunt that the museum turned down . Insurance things I would assume. =(
        But , start the poem in there at the Mountain top and follow it to the library . There are many many things in there that all must see. The Plains Indian section has more then enough geography for you to look at.
        And the natural section has every Brown rock you can think of. Heck you cant see color with out Brown light .
        Anyways – There are so many push button sent and things . A must on your way there . Is that where I think the treasure is .. Hummmmm sort of.

        Take care , ” I can keep my secret where ” ?

        • Thank you! I’d like to head up that way this year, and will try to make a stop at the library to check out the collection. I noticed some of Forrest’s collection of historical photographs is available on the Library’s website, but I know that’s not nearly as satisfying as seeing the real pieces in person. This sounds more interesting than your average town library! 🙂

        • Mr D and Heather you say, I find nothing to be a mistake by Mr. Fenn . I understand you do not think he is perfect but just see him as very calculated and precise in what you know of him. If you think that what do you believe many of his “additional clues” tell us?

          Myself I am willing to believe when he states something as a fact as it is below 10,200 feet. I also worry about anything he says that leaves wiggle room.

          He took plenty of time writing the poem and rewriting it, this surely gave him numerous times where he asked himself what ifs?

          Do you think like I do that he had answers to many questions already loaded knowing they would not help. Or even worse answers that could be considered true but could more easily lead a searcher in the wrong direction?

          • Hi Chris ,

            Thanks for your letter . I don’t
            subscribe much in the blog any more. Im busy on f’s tail.

            To answer your question , only to what I can figure , I hope you understand that .

            First I don’t think I know where the chest is. Assumption
            is not a convince in the hunt for me. I have only thought twice that , and realized I nor most have even gotten close. The ones who do , most likely are so far off base that it will take a flash light to find them .
            So to assume you will win the prize may set you back is all . Keep a open mind.
            You asked about loaded questions. Here is one,

            ” I had to first drink the pop before I could keep the lid”

            No _ _ it!!!

            How else could you, you had to open it didn’t you ?

            There are many many examples of it.

            Take care but to answer what it is I see…. You have around 24 hours to sit and talk .

            Take care all keep searching and never give up or in .

            Mike

  9. Subscribe. FWIW, and to parrot what others have said here; to my waking knowledge, no other searcher has declared here “my home of Brown,” for which I am thankful, as it gives me hope that I may be on the correct solve to finding Indulgence. Or it may simply mean that my guess is as bad as everyone else’s.

    • Same here…no one has mentioned my “hoB” either.

      We could have the same solve.

      ;o)

      If you are seeking in MT….we may very well have the same location of Brown.

      :o)

      Probably not, huh?….I had to dig through lots of details in order to find the one I am using – and that was over a period of two years. But it eventually fell into place and laid itself into my solve rather nicely……and that was only done after I had actual BOTG in a specific region.

  10. Home of brown, Mix the three colors that make brown, Mix other colors for different shades of brown, Like those of a rainbow, Thus the home of brown. The gold is at the end of a rainbow. Just go out in the Rockies and find a rainbow that matches up with the other clues.

  11. Funny and sad. I thought that I had the home of Brown figured out. I assumed it was the Red River fish hatchery. After looking deeper, I discovered that they only raise rainbow trout, not browns. Downstream from the hatchery, the Red River merges with the Rio Grande as I’m sure some of you know. I figured you would “put in” where the Rio Grande and Red River merge. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

    • MJ-
      If you did a bit of research on this blog you would find at least two well written stories with photos by searchers who have looked in that same area…
      Sometimes reading other searcher’s stories can help you formulate your own opinions and see the mistakes others have made..

        • Will someone please contact me about this. I have studied this for a long time, I’m homebound and cannot go on a search, but my view of the poem, it might open your eyes.

          • I need a partner page might help… It would hurt to give some basic info either.
            State, location, area of search for perspective people willing to hear what you might have.

          • Steve – are you seeking someone to search for you? – i’m sure Dal might be able to steer you towards someone if that’s the case (?)

          • Hi Steve Allen – welcome to the end of your life!

            Here you will be lonely, crazy, excited, dumbfounded, pulling your hair out of your head, and probably sitting in your underwear at many times in front of computer.

            :o)

            You really have taken a very large step toward being insane.

            I commend you.

            *applauds*

            Now for that help…….No.

            :o)

            You will have to do what many before you have done……read this blog’s content in the various ways Dal has offered it up to us.

            I think there are many here, like me, who have contributed with the help you are probably looking for.

            My suggestion – outside this blog…..is to listen to the many interviews or radio programs FF has been part of.

            I also like to suggest – “Be the chest!”

            Remote viewing is another option one can possibly find this elusive box.

            But as always – If you ask a question of me, I’ll respond…..but may not be the answer you are looking to receive.

            :o)

      • for some reason these words are flowing through my mind the cross roads we must all travel and our choices on the direction we pick is ours alone or if it is layed in stone we will be who we are at no choice of our own but time is the key for all of us when it is time we will all get there untill then MR Fenn wants us to enjoy our time here on earth take the beauty in.be one with nature just a thought.what a big man to give so much of himself for all of us ty Mr fenn

  12. Does anyone think the poem is connected to the murals at the denver international airport. Look at the murals and try and find the home of brown.

  13. Way upthread, seeker asked: “how can folks who live and breathe the chase not know a clue when on location, and also, indicated what a clue is to fenn and still not know? The idea they all took a wrong turn just doesn’t make sense.”
    ——————————————————————————————————-
    Forrest has already said you do not need to be “on location” to determine at least some of the clues. So the answer to your dilemma seems clear to me. Before you proceed to some location, know >>> the geography of the Rocky Mountains.

    Some serious searchers, those who “live and breathe the chase”, claim to know this and that about the poem and about history and about FF. But what many seem not to know about is >>> geography.

    It’s as if their only exposure to the subject is what they learned in TTOTC. But searchers don’t seem to want to talk about it. I once tried discussing the topic of geographic scale. Posters would have none of it. They wanted to talk about poetry instead, probably because they had no idea what geographic scale even means.

    So spend gobs of time looking for “clues” in TTOTC; brainstorm all you want about the HOB; argue back and forth about WWWH. But, in my opinion, you’re wasting your time until you correctly identify the first clue, which is based on geographic knowledge of the Rocky Mountains.

    Ken (in Texas)

    • I agree there Ken. as more time goes on searcher don’t like the idea of trying something different… stuck in one thought pattern and refuse to let ideas flow.
      I get it… all them hours and hours of research is hard to pass up… so they make it work Michael D just posted he works 9 hour days researching.

      If that is what is truly needed… scouring the kitchen sink for hundreds of clues to impale it all into the poem… I’ll step back and mow my lawn.

      • @ Seeker – I’ll spend hours just thinking about the poem and the clues, but in all actuality – I have a life outside this chase, and give it what I can and when I can.

        Shoot -t here were months that I didn’t do anything, except go over the poem in my mind to see if something clicks.

        Granted – there are a lot of folks out here searching a lot harder than I am.

        I guess I have “kept it simple”…..*smiles*…..

      • Hi seeker ,
        Hope you are well and in good spirit –

        No it’s not what is needed, because it is so simple right? May I remind you of the quote in TFTW . ” I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location before hand , but sure for the one who did” , SO no one knew anything nor had a idea of the location. The path is difficult but not impossible. But it is what I need . The hard road, I like bumps .If all were flat it would be boring . And I would only try to find challenges to keep my self busy .

        Thats why I message you . So I wont be , bored you know .
        And to be honest maybe you also need to fill your mind .There is nothing too small to learn and nothing to large to see . To set aside learning something completely to learn a newer way seems ill logical .I like to remember everything I learn . If it be possible to do such a thing? Where I never forget the roads of life I have traveled .
        And if my study of words and mnemonics , Denotation of Computer Language , and Cartography ,
        geography , Art , Science of Weather , Old road distances , Anthropology, Archeology (not that I get this stuff but I like to learn new things) ,Eric Sloane , Mary Cornwell, J.F.K , Henry Share, Shakespeare , Joe Billy Bob , C.E.S. , General Terry ,
        , Mr. Harvey , f’s coach , J.D. Salinger , All his friends in war, Eisenhower , Miss Olga , Miss Ford, George Burns
        Wild Bill , Sitting Bull , Hop Alone , the main street cowboys , Donny , Granny , old biddies , Plains Native Americans , Taos Native Americans , their customs and dances , and so many other things I had read about that are all to many to write …. But I tried to list them the best I could . Like stuff also like –
        Romanesque Lock Box’s ,
        And so if this makes me a fool , then a fool I am , and happy to be just one of many.
        Shakespeare used many fools . One in A play about wisdom . ” As you Like It ” , have you read it?
        Did you see the mistakes in TTOTC? And or any of the other things said in the book . Like where he was on January 28th 2010 . Im sure you did when you read it , but did you see it ?
        Did you see where he told us to imagine him in Catcher? Did you find the last time he was in Yellowstone ? By the date time and day ? Did you know the Book of Days is not correct ? Date it 1150 AD the Book of Days didn’t exist. You will look and try to correct me , But I can say with 100% certainty that I know that fact for sure. Information is a huge thing with Fenn . And all those things I found I found by study.
        Unlike the Grappette Can I found in Yellowstone Park . One time walking a old trial , In which I knew he was on that trail in the past . Or the power of a nickel . And and how’d he payed for all those soda pops ?
        Did you see the ball of string yet? Or the ” mistakes” – in the stories told by Mr. Fenn ? I ‘m just asking because you want to talk logic to a guy who cant even cut his own grass physically . Nope I cant do that , 60% of my right arms muscle mass is gone , there are 5 pins in that arm , as well as a bone in my neck with a plate and screws. So I admire you because you can . And I wish I could just cut the grass with ya .
        Logical arguments that do not show productivity are useless and have no Merritt. I sent the questions to show a different way to think, because I have already had so many different styles to see the poem .
        I do not see the Chase as a lot of folks do , I see something different in the middle . Centered if you will .
        Possibly in a kind of V.O.R. in some times past that brings me to this place now and this letter.
        Rudeness comes in many forms .
        – Like the rude girl who rose her coffee cup to Fenn .
        But most would say that is a clue…. Yes it is , but not the way they see it . You do not do that raise your coffee cup first for your self or text when a customer or guest as I put it ; approaches your register it’s rude. Not when you are in the business of making money for your self. You do that -no one will want to shop at your store.
        So – Seeker , I like you understandings in the past that I have read . But I also watch as you kind of
        rudely try to seem smarter or more logical then other searchers. Pushing against their will is one thing , shoving is another . Thanks F for that one.. No one else will say it so I will , Stop !!!!! It is against the very principles in which Logic is even thought .
        I hope you keep on your Y’s and I’s .
        I stopped that stuff along time ago. Im on to other solves in my mind that sound fun . But in the mean time I will keep working on the 100 or so I have going at all times.
        Logic would say , to help others and not demoralize there independent mind , but shed light into the mind to please them . Forrest Fenn was right about that . He was here to please others , I knew it ,just forgot it .
        I>K I have plenty of that . I have so many stories to tell , and I stink at it . =) Oh well some faults turn into beautiful canyons full of life and dreams.
        It had to be pounded into me . You know the small bone in your ear that looks like a anvil.
        Once I saw how it’s formed by the “mallet” I just couldn’t resist the chance to at least try myself.
        Good luck ….. Never stop seeking knowledge .
        Mr.D
        _ … ._. _ _ _ . _ _ _ .
        ” The Chest will stay there for all of time, or unless you find it ” by : Forrest Fenn- Fennboree Map
        And if I don’t find your box of gold Mr.Fenn Sir ,
        I at least gave it all I am and one Hell of a try …
        But I will continue into my many studies and
        dream dreams of Indy and I finding that chest somewhere , where even memory has gone.

        Mr. D
        ps. forgive the spelling please

      • In my opinion the problem searchers are having is not a matter of theoretical approach to the poem, as suggested by seeker. The problem is a simple lack of geographic knowledge.

        I wish I had a dime for every place in those four states that might have some relevance to the clues, that I have never ever seen referenced on this blog. I don’t think searchers even know these places exist.

        • @Ken – So true.

          Fenn constructed it to be that result….many choices, but only winner.

          I’m glad I have a fairly good knowledge of geology and geography. Right up my alley.

          • Lack of geographic knowledge doesn’t seem evident to most searchers, though, since about all we ever hear about are the usual search areas in northwest Wyoming and the tourist areas of northern New Mexico. Further …

            The average searcher, in my opinion, also has a number of misconceptions about this hunt that obstruct progress toward the correct location.

    • I agree, Ken.
      I purchased two used Geography school books, (one middle school/one high school) and a book titled “Geography of the RM’s” They OPENED my eyes!
      I will tell you one thing…
      WWWH is a REAL PLACE!

      It pays to gain that “comprehensive Knowlege ” ! (~¤)

  14. I often speculate about how much time/research has been accumulated collectively on this search…The numbers must be staggering.
    It’s like thinking about how much fuel is currently sitting in parked vehicles world wide at any given moment. Just sitting there…
    The serious searchers do their homework and find info that either moves them forward or creates a road block. As has been pointed out scores of times, there are many aberrations and anomalies as presented by Fenn. And they are just that until a connection can be made. Sometimes it is wise to just let sleeping dogs be.
    Seeker…what is your definition of linear mode/thinking? And how does that equate to stomping? I’ve heard your way of describing it…but I can’t quite picture it as it relates to solving the poem. And I do agree with (KEN) that the first clue is imperative, albeit his method is not quite the same as mine.

    • Ken,
      Stomping, is a hunting term for following/tracking your game [ basically looking for scrapes, rubs, and other fresh markings {however, if not fairly good at this method you spook the game} ].
      The method equates to the point by point, 9 clues must all be places and traveled to. This imo, is the linear/literal method [stomping] to a solve… just simply follow the dotted line to the X that marks the spot… which many seem to adhere to. But to think linear, that all clues must be traveled to, automatically forces all clues to be places and must be stomped out.

      Where is the imagination in reading a poem if all we truly need to do is walk from point to point?
      Do we really know that “Not far but too far to walk” is a distance we need to travel > or even a distance at all? But the linear thinking forces it to be.
      Do we really know that “we/searchers” are being told to go down [ must travel ] a canyon?
      Again, the linear thinking forces that thought.
      Follow and lead, as we have been told about the clues, doesn’t have to mean a physical journey, but could be more an understanding, like following ‘instruction’ to lead to ‘an end result.’

      Of course, common sense says we need to go somewhere, and we need to be there to retrieve the chest… but, do we really need to stomp out, in linear form [ follow the dotted line ], 9 ‘places’ over many different distances?
      The linear thinking and stomping forces the clues to ‘have to’ be that way.

      I’m not saying it’s wrong [ although is seems not have worked very well. The many first two clues and possibly first four clues comments have brought that to light ]… I’m saying there is other ways to read/interpret a ‘poem’

      What I don’t like about the single stomping mode thought is, it leads to a domino effect; force a clue here and need to force another clue there, and on and on.

      I don’t expect many to look at the poem from different angles of reading… as you might have seen lately… many have the perfect solve, and the chest will be found this year. For sure. Again.

      • Sound argument. The linear way does force certain aspects of the poem to be just one thing. Also it forces to ignore many other ‘important’ words in the poem as just poetic fillers. Lines 5 and 6 are to blame imo.

      • Splitting hairs here, but I think what Seeker is describing is stalking – not stomping. Stomping is a loud noisy gait, certain to alert the game you are after so they can move away. Stalking is a careful, stealthful following of your quarry, looking for recent signs that it is just ahead.

        But he has the correct concept I believe – that is, you have to be not only aware of the signs your quarry has left for you to follow, but you must be totally aware of your surroundings so you do not miss the opportunity to shoot. It’s where we get the expression that a person does not see the forest for the trees. The warning for us is to look for the signs (see the trees) and see the quarry up ahead (be aware of the forrest and all it contains).

        My final comment along these lines is this, if you are looking for the chest, I think you’ll never find it. If you are looking for a place that the chest could be, you stand a better chance.

      • Swwott,
        Your correct in your term stalking. Just my quick explanation. Too many hunters today I label slob hunters… they don’t “stalk” but stomp through [ and too many with a sixpak clanging in their backpacks]… another reason [method] for this action is to force the game to a central [cornered] location for slaughter [ many stompers] . This technique was believe to be used by ancients hunting mastodons… but imo is not needed in this time period. Stalking is a more one on one and more of a challenge and learning experience. As ken stated, know your prey. However, today’s hunters and trophy hunters have given me a bad taste for hunting [ which I did for food supplement ]

        As you stated, and I think the difference to stalking and stomping might help in the chase, eye your surroundings… awareness is difficult when your not sure of what to look for.
        Maybe that is where imagination might be helpful.

  15. Seeker… I get where you are coming from, and most of your points seem correct on the surface. Coming from a line of successful “hunters”, I can relate. I will add that one very important aspect of hunting is to “know” your quarry inside and out…habits, likes, dislikes, habitat, etc.
    If we take the treasure out of the equation, what are we truly looking for?
    This really boils down to a place…does it not? Taken at face value, this place will only be located by starting somewhere…right? Imagination is more important than knowledge…perhaps the ability to see beyond what might be known or commonly noticed.
    From my point of view at this juncture I can say that after figuring out the first clue…the search area reduces dramatically. The begin point becomes obvious and the obstacles become evident. Deciphering the words saves the day and helps take the next step(stomp). Doing this uses more imagination. The poem is the vehicle that makes it evident that more thought is needed to get anywhere.
    All just ramblings of a failed but not beaten searcher. I’ll close this(not really finished) by asking you what you believe is the reason Little Indie blah blah blah. Java time….

    • Ken,
      I have asked the same question; “If we take the treasure out of the equation, what are we truly looking for?”
      And,
      Why I have asked; Could others like Osbourne or Meek have the same opportunity to locate the “place” with the same information we were given?

      Navigation was different then. More eyes and ears than GPS and Satellite mapping. It was not so much about knowing the land, but how to use the information available to traverse the land… stars, sunrise-sunset, mountain peaks, fix points etc. etc. just a tip if the iceberg, if you will.

      I’m not going to pretend I know what the correct method of reading the poem is… but using one method only, and if not the correct one… well, ya can stomp all day and night for 1000 years and never find it.
      I personally think the clues in the poem are much more cleverly thought out. The first two clues comments [ and now first four possibly ] have shown, at least for me, being there is not enough vs. understanding how it all folds together.

      • Yup… I will not pretend either. I just THINK if you take what you said above a couple of steps further and really look at it…you might see that it is more than “one method”….and absolutely the clues are more than clever. It could go either way….
        I am content to go on a few excursions and get better acquainted…I’m in no hurry. I’m also not inclined to cough up what I have discovered along the way. I don’t mind parrying a bit though…

      • “If you knew the geographic location to each clue, it would be a map to the treasure.”
        Sounds like places to me…

        • But “places” may or may NOT have given names. I might find a “Cow Plop” in the middle of a field that was important in my solve, but it would not have a name – other than possibly in “Farmer John’s field”. Just Sayin’ JDA

          • Just saying…his statement indicates the clues are locations…and good luck to you.

        • Ken,
          Yep… The wording “each clue” and we know there’s 9, doesn’t give leeway to a clue not being a place.
          But maybe we should stick with location… IF for example, a clue refers to a river, is it a place or a location… semantic? Maybe. More cautious, at this point in time.

          Don’t ya like being patient… the after the fact comments may not get ya closer, but they seem to give that check and balance.

          lol.. Don’t be surprised when the ‘I know where the chest’ group twist it up and say ‘names’ of places/locations are a must to the solve…

          • Oh…you DO know it’s gonna happen !
            And I do prefer “location”…
            Can’t wait to see all the stories…
            I’m keeping true to what I have learnt along the way…stay flexible.

          • Well…there you have it. It has already happened… the twisting has begun. Chubby Checkers would be proud…

        • Yes ken,
          Places.
          Labeled or not.
          Marry them to a map.
          Each clue.

          Not thoughts, theories, ideas, but places.

  16. Could “put in” be a reference to a stake below the home of Brown which might begin the blaze, trail to the chest?

  17. Has anyone totally tried to use “all fishing terms” relating to this poem?

    Or…if this is F death poem…has anyone worked it from this angle?

    • I’ve been fishing for over 40 years and that knowledge has helped 0% so far. When FF said no special knowledge is needed I believe it. He’s even suggested kids look at the poem so I think people are over thinking it most of the time.

      • I love when F said he wished someone would take their bike and go get it! Wonder if that’s off trail, or that close to a street?

        Angel Fire is not only a ski resort, it’s a bike park too!

          • I’m a terrible note taker…do not have where I read that. My notes read as follows:
            F said he wished someone would “take a bike in there and get it.”

            I’m trying to be better at note taking and put references in margins.

            Sorry I’m not better help.

            If this helps you find the trove toss me a coin would you?!

    • Sheryl Lynn—

      Knot a whole lot. Me and a chum looked at the fishing terms, but wound up getting skunked. It’s a subject you kind of wade into carefully if you know what I mean.

  18. I talked about this true story before. I come from a small town in New Mexico. We didn’t have very much and when we did, it was the treasures I would find. When we went to take our trash to the dump near the Mescalero reservation, I would go looking for things. Walking through all the mountains of trash looking for bike parts. I would gather what looked like what I need to make a bike. I still remember those days when I was 8 or 9 year old. Now those were treasures when people would throw there old bikes in the dry creek. It was fun to yell out- look what I found! #inthewood #forrestfenn

    An Indian Scout and A Saint.

  19. Browns canyon nation monument is on the Arkansas River. There are two warm springs on either side just down a little ways (to far to walk). Put your boat in just below there. One of the warm springs is in wellsville (yes, like the movie “road to Wellsville”). This can all be seen on google maps.
    Further down the river is a town called coaldale (Blaze is a brand of coal, look up pics). At the end of that town is a creek called “Big Cottonwood Creek” (“if you are standing in the wood”), it is too small to paddle up. My guess is in a culvert or under a bridge because both cater to high water, and heavy loads drive over them.
    If you find it, think of me 🙂

  20. I didn’t know where else to post this so I’ll post it here. I was watching chase videos on you-tube and Forrest mentioned something I haven’t heard before. He says if your standing where the treasure is you can smell the Pinion pines. Strong hint !
    good luck

    • Hello Barry Weeks. You will find great information on this blog, as well as, help from other searchers. Mr. Fenn has mentioned he didn’t mean to say Pinyon.

    • Barry;

      This has been discussed many, many times. Here is Forrest’s quote – in full: “”If I was standing where the treasure chest is, I’d see trees, I’d see mountains, I’d see animals. I’d smell wonderful smells of pine needles, or pinyon nuts, sagebrush—and I know the treasure chest is wet. Well you’ve asked me a lot of questions and some of them—most of them I answered, a few I haven’t, but I’ve got to tell you—there’s one thing I told you I wish I had not.” f

      Later, Forrest clarified this statement by saying that he meant to say “Pine Needles” vs Pinyon Nuts – despite the fact that he had already mentioned Pine Needles.

      Pinyon (or Pinon) nuts are only found in NM and CO, and one SMALL spot in WY. Because of Forrest’s correction – do NOT put a lot of value in his statement. I would NOT disqualify WY or MO – Just a suggestion. JDA

      • Yes…I spent a week researching flora/fauna to scratch that idea! Do not throw out WY or MN

          • Obviously I didn’t either! Dang-gum it!

            Don’t throw out Wyoming (WY) or Montana (MT)

          • Anyone run across the word Muleshoe? Been reading TTOTC but can not find it again…

          • You’re welcome,

            If, by chance, it’s *REALLY* helpful, toss me a gold coin when you find the trove! 🙂

            Best regards

          • Fennatical-you got it! Remember I’m the girl who had to ask what GE was and didn’t know unto an hour ago that the abbreviation for Montana was MT not MN…guessing MN is Minnesota!

            I’m determined as all get out! Just not as smart as y’all!

            Plans for the trove if I find it: render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and tithes, toss coins to those have helped, the bracelet to F, and the rest to buy supplies for homeless in Peru and build 12’x12′ wooden structures for them!

  21. the home of brown is indicated by the axeman drawing in TTOTC. the axeman cut down the trees to build a log cabin. this cabin is located at the Draper Museum of Natural History inside the Buffalo Bill Center of the West. the reason Brown is capitalized is because it indicates a proper name, but not Brown rather Byrd. the cabin at the Draper is the Byrd naturalist cabin. this explains the bird in the nest (at home) in the drawing. the reason there are stars in the drawing is because the sun never shines inside the museum to protect artifacts. its always night. to put in below this cabin requires visitors to proceed past the cabin, and begin their descent at the 10,000 foot level of elevation.

    • Astute observation on the logging photo. I have another conclusion on that as a hint though…

  22. I have the idea there is probably more than one Hob. I feel we need to find them on our own so we know their meaning. A canyon, or place to fish, or a hidey space address is likely not relevant if you were told. Maybe we need to know the context why “below the HOB” is important. There may be a secret can or there could just be, pins in a place on a map on my mac. Perhaps I stumbled upon or found a few different unique HOB’s:

    1.) one as a brown object or maybe a brown place. Perhaps a place where Rivers, bogs and sand can meet. But if your resolve is low you can’t I’d it or hoof your way through it. Punctuation can also easily change any Identification of any Brown to brown. Or consider what if it is simply one of the blazes as a trail marker below the HOB.

    2.) one HOB as a place in a map that is went up for sale recently and has a sale pending. But I wouldn’t tan myself over this. I could be saying this to simply throw you off.

    3.) A theory that one HOB had a blaze as a symbol and specific instructions in the poem and on a specific online posting.

    TLC

  23. My two cents on the HOB… it’s an out-of-place natural feature that is a brown color (at least more brown than its surroundings). I’m guessing since the searcher would be in a canyon at the point where HOB is encountered, it’s a large boulder or rock feature. Forrest has suggested that the clues are long-term and may last thousands of years. Things like trees, animals, even place names won’t stand the test of time. Glacially deposited boulders can definitely appear out of place and make great landmarks. Imagine a brown boulder deposited against or among a large area of gray granite… it would certainly stand out.

    But why capitalize “Brown?” My guess would be that it is a nickname that Forrest gave to the landmark. If brown weren’t capitalized, it would read as an adjective describing the word “home” (e.g. home of wood, shoes of red, etc.) By capitalizing Brown he’s directing the searcher to look for the location (home) of a feature nicknamed “Brown.”

    • I like this line of thinking! In fact I found several big brown spots on GE and laughed saying, no that’s too easy! Maybe…I should rethink this again.

      • Also, Forrest said that you can’t get past the first two clues using only a map and the poem, which indicates that the subsequent clues require you to physically be there, boots on the ground. In my opinion, the HOB clue is definitely past the first two clues.

        • Hi Michael….sounds like you are having just as much fun as we all are.

          Are you pulling out your hair yet? Better head to the “Barber Shop”, huh?

          :o)

          Actually – I disagree – I believe all the clues, except the final resting place can get the person into the vicinity of the chest…..one just needs to figure out the starting point.

          IMO – the starting point is one that I think needs to have BOTG.

          So in essence, I’ve just reversed everything that was said by many…..BOTG first, and if the starting point is known, the path can be found.

          Of course this is just my opinion…..I’m pretty sure many disregard my thinking, so take it or leave it, friend.

          Cheers and good luck to you.

          • Hey Tim, yep I’ve been thinking about this poem for a couple years I guess, and reading the forums from time to time.

            You have an interesting approach to the clues. How do you resolve the “little girl in India” situation?

            Can a little girl in India, who speaks good English, but only has your poem and a map of the US Rocky Mountains, work out where the treasure is? FF: The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues.

          • Hi Michael. I believe this statement to be true.

            In fact, no one can get past the first two clues if they do not know where to begin.

            Personally, I think BOTG is required……but I guess one could throw darts at the starting point and go from there……maybe that is what FF was referring to.

            IMO – one needs to know the starting point…..but I’ve also stated that the first three clues are sort of checks and balances to each other, so In some essence, if hoB can be found, and then verified to allow the previous two clues to work out into “hoB”, then one could literally move past the starting point, and work it from there. This method could be just as vast as beginning WWWH.

            Did I explain that well enough?

          • the little girl in India cannot get past the first two clues because she is not at the Buffalo Bill Center of the West. shes in India. the first stanza is describing the Buffalo Bill Center of the West. second stanza describes yellowstone. (WWWH) the home of Brown i told about in my post from April 5th. so the first two clues are:
            1. buffalo bill center of the west
            2. yellowstone
            The Draper Museum is billed as “the yellowstone experience”.
            now, the little girl in India has buffalo bill and yellowstone. but the wrong ones. this is why she cant get past the first two clues. you must physically be at the Draper Museum to follow the rest of the clues. not in India, not at yellowstone park.
            once inside the Draper, Home of Brown is the third clue. stanza three references the Draper experience.
            opinion mine.

          • And this Draper Museum will still be there 1,000 years from now?

            GONG !

            I doubt it!

  24. Fellow Searchers; I’m feeling generous. IMO, Brown is capitalized because it is talking about unusually large Brown trout that live where the nutrient-dense warm waters habitat transition to cooler water for most (if not all) months of the year. IMO “take it into the canyon down”, refers to taking your little float device down into the cold water of the canyon which may or may not be situated “down” stream. IMO you can ask your kids about parts of the solve but maybe they shouldn’t follow you and stay in the car since the end is close but too far to walk there. IMO, water high has special meaning here. In the wood may be the interior of the chest or where you can’t paddle up. If you carry half the load and cross the water again you finish the chase again in one afternoon and see why FF was tired. Otherwise, IMO, you must carry all 42 pounds to your float device in one trip.

    • Very nice theory, mensan_fennsan! You are indeed very clever and I wish you well on your search, IMO. Now go jump in a lake, IMO.

    • mensan_fennsan

      i enjoyed your comment re: carbon-dating vs magnetic polar flux etc, and am an avid fan of physics in all my limited capacities ( ..which are lotsa many)

      ..but an upper-case B is still simply a capital “B”
      (esp after 15 years of planning, imho)

      (please feel free to forward any legal documents/proceedings against this notion directly to Dal) 🙂

    • I don’t know how many searchers know this but Brown Trout are not native to North America so describing a body of water here as “home of Brown” seems strange to me as an angler.

      • to me, the recent scrapbook entries are suggesting Comanche indians and chickens which can be found in the chapter “me in the middle” from TTOTC. i see this as Forrest trying to hint at “me in the center”…. Buffalo Bill Center of the West, where the home of brown is located. also notice the photoshopped feet of his parents. here, he’s suggesting his parents were bad dancers having two left feet. or, that the blaze is feet.
        opinion mine.

    • I also explored the Brown trout angle for quite a while, but eventually gave up. In my mind there are just too many possible HOBs where brown trout are concerned. “Home” to a trout could be the spawning headwaters, ideal feeding areas (as you mentioned), locations where they were originally introduced (like the Nez Perce creek in Yellowstone), and so on.
      I still feel like the HOB is a natural unique feature within the search area, possibly geologic, that will stand the test of time.

      • In addition to the home of the brown trout – it was an introduction into the US from Canada. Some think that Lake Ennis was the starting point at one time, and it currently is a “home of brown trout”.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRiJXdX6T7A

        But I am in agreement with you…..the hoB can be many things….and not just a reference to “brown trout”.

        We also have an artist, UPS hub city, historic references galore, animals, and possibly a natural “brown” look for something.

        • Thanks. I say there are browns and there are Browns when it comes to trout. Hint: “Blue Ribbon Trophy Trout”. This may well give you GPS coordinates to within 2 or 3 miles if you google this term along with the state name IMO.

    • Brown – so is it a noun, a proper noun, an adjective or some composite of the two or more possibilities? (I suppose the word could be a verb in the sense of browning a toilet stall, but I digress). How you define the word is going to determine what you are looking for when searching.

      I tend to agree with many here that it is not something named after a person, place or thing (color), but rather a description of an immovable/unchangeable feature found out in the wood. But that’s only my opinion, and until I pick up Indulgence, that’s not worth very much amongst this crowd. 🙂

      • Brown, John Brown. He was the last of the Navajo code talkers of WWII. He lived in Crystal, New Mexico. That’s NW of Santa Fe. Hope this helps a searcher.

        • Hey bob, the iron bell in scrapbook 172 was made by crystal metal…. hope this helps ya…. see ya my friend

          • It is on the Navajo reservation and not in the Rockies or on Mr. Fenn’s map.

  25. Rickinflorida;

    On 9 clues you asked the following question: “How far below do you folks think the “put in” is from the actual “home” of…?”

    To answer your question.: In my solve, the “Put In” spot is less than a few yards from a road that leads to my hoB.

    Rather than actually going down a body of water, from my wwwh – in the canyon down – I am driving down a road that parallels my body of water. I travel about 10 miles. I then “put in” BELOW the hoB.

    The point that I “put in” is below (South of, and lower in elevation) another (smaller) body of water that joins my larger body of water.

    My hoB is ON or very near, this smaller body of water.

    As it happens, two roads meet the road that I was traveling on to get to the “put in” point. The left fork goes to my hoB, the right fork goes to my “meek” place – confusing enough? JDA

    • I guess I am asleep – The RIGHT fork goes to my hoB, and the LEFT fork goes to my meek place. Now you MUST be confused – I am. JDA

      • JDA, My thoughts are very similar to yours, except at my convergence are two streams instead of two roads…one stream coming down the canyon from my wwwh with a dirt lane running parallel to the steam down the canyon and the other stream with the heavy loads and water high coming down a draw on the other side of the ridge that separates the two streams until they converge at a Y. Lots of recreationists would have passed within 200 feet of this Y. I’m keeping my fingers crossed…not that the treasure chest is there but that this unusually deep snowpack will melt before August. Good luck to you!

        • Thanks Cynthia, and the same to you. Being from NM, it holds a “WARM” place in my heart.

          Happy Huntin’ JDA

  26. JDA,
    Take “it” in the Canyon down; driving this road into the Canyon. One road, into the Canyon. Down might not mean elevation, but the direction of the road. Not far, but too far to walk is an addendum telling you to drive to the Put in which is “below the home of Brown.” Brown is capitalized. This is a significant clue. Below can be interpreted differently. Can it mean a fishing regulations cut off point at your put in or maybe an elevation above you to confirm home of Brown. The clues in the poem are contiguous and therefore when driving into the Canyon, you will proceed to the put in which he tells us is below the home of Brown. He drove there.
    When you reach the Put In, Forrest then tells you “There’ll be no paddle up your creek.” So in this location there is a creek. IMHO – He might be telling us don’t go up the Creek.
    Forrest Fenn says:
    March 24, 2016 at 3:56 pm

    A hypothetical example of a “what if” might be, what if I was looking so far ahead that I neglected to notice what was beside me.

    • Debi;

      You say, “When you reach the Put In, Forrest then tells you “There’ll be no paddle up your creek.” – You forgot, “From there it’s no place for the meek, the end is ever drawing nigh;” As you say, the clues in the poem are contiguous – so don’t skip over any of them, as you did with me. EVERY clue is vital.

      Look at every clue. Have you ever asked yourself why the line reads “…the end is EVER drawing nigh?” EVER means more than once. Why would the END be drawing nearer MORE THAN ONCE? There is a logical reason why. Study it and figure out why – It MAY mean a BIG difference in your solve. Just the mutterin’ of an OLD fool. JDA

      • The end is ever drawing nigh; I might after looking at
        “200 feet” think the ever drawing nigh means left of your Put IN.

      • I was focusing in on the Home of Brown – and yes I purposely didn’t include “the end is ever drawing nigh” This to me sounds like a hint “ever drawing nigh.
        It doesn’t give you a location, but tells you, beware; it’s close.
        .

    • 10200 feet. Home of brown. One famous woman was married to a rich man at 10200 ft. I know close to its location

      • Larry-
        You might be talking about Maggie (aka Unsinkable Molly) Brown, married in Leadville, CO at just under 10,200ft. Many folks have followed that possible HOB and also explored Maggie’s home in Denver. As far as I know, no one has explored her birth home in Hannibal, MO.

        • I firmly believe that we are being pointed to Molly Brown by Mr. F. as I have not found any reference to10,200 feet except to her. But in my mind it does not point us to a specific location but to a specific elevation. “below the home of Brown”. If you know the first two clues ( and I don’t) this may bring you to the location to start the remainder of your search.

  27. Another thought…
    The Nearest Brown dwarf lies in the constellation VELA, which is Latin for “sails”. The Vela constellation is in the family called “Heavenly Waters”. Maybe the home of Brown is in the stars. Has anyone considered areas of the Rockies or lands of native tribes that were naming natural places on earth based on celestial navigation. Just random thoughts from a dim bulb.

    • Fenn stated you only need “the poem and a good map”
      . (sic)I don’t see how the constellations are relevant. That would take some research. JMHO

      • On some maps stars are charted my their magnetic declination. If I remember correctly similar magnetic lines are marked on Fs map of the Rockies as well. Could be feasible…I like it Bob!

        • And he also said that magnetic variation / declination wouldn’t help…

      • Debi,
        You are probably right but I’ve exhausted a zillion Brown’s and come up short. So, it occurred to me that there are celestial navigation maps and pilots of Mr. Fenn’s caliber probably know how to use them. Probably a stretch to locate a home of Brown in the sky, unless…..

        • It is a good idea. Stars have a specific latitude and longitude. I had thought that the Blaze might be a star with a position that corresponded to a position somewhere on the map. I thought that Polaris might be the star since it is used to navigate. I came up short, but it is worth a look.

  28. IMO :

    I dotty think I would remark on this subject , AT ALL!!!

    I like to share , but that would be the nail in the coffin so to say .\

    What do you all think?

    • Mr.D,
      I agree. However…even if others know what the hoB is…finding the correct one is like finding the correct WWWH.
      IMO…Mr f tell us the hoB in a SB awhile back. Be sure to take a sandwich and a flashlight to see the hoB.

  29. GOD is LOVE. Why try and help me and throw wrong temptations out there also , Also try get me to trespass to get to my solve ,I’ll figure out how to get permission then go get it. So I just threw one back at you bloggers. Forgive me if I hurt you. I already said I would share equally with my team . Have a Blessed day.

  30. I think the home of Brown is just that the home of a person named Brown. I do think it is a well known person and particularly one Forrest knew or knew of. As for the clues lasting, nothing has been more recorded or is easier to research than real estate owners. This won’t change in the next 200 + years probably more. My parents do genealogy and they routinely dig up records several hundred years old from a time with only a written, archived court house records or church records existed… no digital record. If your search clues show you something but you are hesitant because the home of Brown does not seem iconic enough…go for it anyway you just never know. Especially if you can put Forrest into the town or as an acquaintance. There are a lot of famous Brown’s in Colorado but I haven’t been able to put together anything reasonable on any of them, from the clues in the poem….but I have one smoking hot lead on a guy named Brown that Forrest knew in a town not too far away. The clues I find in the poem all fit into place, are in order and match my interpretation of things. I just need some snow to melt before I can go look!

    • From other things he’s said, I doubt that ff would have inflicted that potential for unwanted attention on any of his acquaintances.

      Except, I guess, if he really didn’t like the guy . . . 🙂

      iMo
      K

      • lol.. “didn’t like the guy” in a “release the hounds Smithers” sorta way? 🙂

        • “If you’ve been wise and found my cheatin’ ex’s house . . . ” 🙂

      • Just ask the Brown’s who own the Brown Ranch east of Folsom Falls how much they like Fenn’s poem. Before the Map came out and eliminated that area, their place was over run by mindless searchers…might be one of the reasons Fenn released a map.

        • I’ve eliminated the use or need to use – any private land in my solve.

          Land that I have deemed to be not searchable:

          (this information is not for “aMp” to read or use)….*winks*……JK aMp…..I hope one post will find to have your interest.

          Tribal – I would not even know where to begin, just to go on this type of land. With that thought, I would think FF also thought this out as well, and does not want any “trouble” to follow a searcher. Going onto this type of land, will definitely bring in circumstances that no seeker wants to tackle or try to avoid.
          – Just eliminate it wholly

          OSFS – “On Site Field Supply” – I believe that this acronym is correct, as it seems to be logical enough to fit. Correct me if I am wrong.

          What did you learn?
          – You learned that certain land can be very detrimental to a search, thus the elimination of those lands can narrow your search.

          IMO.

          Cheers to all!

          • It has been eliminated wholly , I found the old post you were referring to some years ago, But that still seems the best way to approach for my solve the lower route is just to crappy Not worth it. route 444 seems best, We just cant leave out the people of the plains the treasure can be shared with them also. Very Sorry for any comment I made that my have hurt somebody that was never my intention. asking for your forgiveness. we’ve all heard the term be still and know that I am God that’s what I’ve been doing.

    • There are also a few more “Browns” in the area from history they include:
      Surveyor Joseph C. Brown
      Trapper Jean Baptist Chalifoux aka John Brown)
      Samuel Brown (Brown’s Sheep Farm, Las Animas, Co.)
      Anyone find more?

      Happy Wanderings

      • So Bob what did ya find out?
        Brown’s sheep farm, is that the patch of steep ground atop Animas Mtn? You might wanna think twice before you head out, if you’re thinking of clamoring up to the rim for a peek down.
        If you send your scouts, please give them enough coin to get home, Durango is suffering from a vagrant problem already, thanks to weed.

      • Bob Miller

        i like your “Joseph C Brown – Surveyor” suggestion, and still haven’t quite researched enough to know whether Forrest was involved in land-surveying
        – sounds like he’s def knowledgable within that arena though

        i sometimes wonder if the blaze (a mark) is actually a buried survey-mark, found only on the ‘right’ map?

        “..been wise and found the blaze”?

          • Amanda, my research on Surveyor Brown also showed photos of the “links” and how the men were able to be so accurate in their calculations. I haven’t yet discovered where his home was but know he was in an area that might include a certain treasure chest. As a cartographer I would think you could pull up some historical maps with more detail that I can find. Thanks for your response. What state are you located? Hope it’s close than where I am-Michigan. 🙁

          • I am in Oklahoma. I did look at some old trail maps ( but as I say I am confining my search to Colorado and if I have to that small part of new Mexico. It. Is just to far to go any further when I get a free evening. I will investigate further. This time of year I am busy with the garden and monster yard.
            I go by mosby123 also. When I am on the computer.

        • precisely Amanda. a bench-mark above or below ground-level perhaps? ..or a secondary survey-mark (buried) that are all recorded on your beautiful USGS topo-maps, to great detail (& seamless on ArcGIS – super-neat bonus!! 🙂 )

          not sayin it’s ‘the right’ map tho – but if you LOVE maps like i do, then you’ll easily lose yourself within the great detail of all that hard effort those guys dedicated to surveying off-track lands, historical and present, so accurately
          🙂

        • Jake,
          Yes, I have. Surveyor Brown is an interesting guy. The more I search the historical documents the more the name Brown pops up. There is/was a William E. Brown that did some work for the NPS in the 60/s but I keep coming back to the surveyor because of the reference to “links”. Just can’t quite determine where his home was.

          • Bob, that whole horse dookey is confusing but I can imagine it is west somewhere( Imean in the west). Man igotta type in the AM when ive still got my brain

          • Aside from the Sibley survey work (Santa Fe Trail), JC Brown seems to be more a Missouri man.

            JAKe

        • Jake, it’s amazing how the road outlines above that Bench mark resemble the outline of the Phantom’s hat.

          • I’m not sure who the phantom is & what his hat looks like.
            Maybe you can post a pic.

    • I like the fossil idea. Floressant Colorado has a bunch a little far from Mt Princeton hot springs but cold not warm waters do halt in a lake near there and gem hunters delight.

      • Amanda, if you are referring to Florissant Fossil Beds, west of Colorado Springs, I must congratulate you on selecting a location that I do not recall ever having been mentioned in this blog.

        It’s one of about a thousand locations in Colorado alone that posters do not seem to know exists. Of course as a geographer, you would know. I got my MS degree in Geography from OSU (Stillwater) many moons ago. I think it might be a geographer who eventually finds the chest.

        Ken (in Texas)

        • I would think the eventual solve is more likely to never have been mentioned as people keep their best ideas close to the vest.

          Personally, I’ve looked at Florissant Fossil Beds (from my armchair) and couldn’t make anything else work. Ymmv.

    • Perhaps I’m late for the train but there’s another load of info on interesting Brown possibilities. In addition to J.B. Chalifoux, I’ve been reading about a surveyor named Joseph C.Brown. I offer this to you and others in the event you have not yet read about it. “French Fur Traders & Voyageurs in the American West”
      Good luck in the search

  31. Barnum Brown and Montana are definitely ‘up there’ with Wyoming as well.

    SL

    • I am leaning towards Brown trout and Brown peoples. I have a spot in mind with both but have to wait till mid summer when the high water recedes and I can cross the heavy loads enough to get there. It does have a blaze not many people know of. I believe there are cardinal directions. No and So and nigh …..in the poem. Also hints of nearby landmarks.

      • I was surprised to see the number of google references to “heavy loads” as they relate to fishing including heavy sediments, heavy hatches, and heavy nutrients.

          • SL…
            Heavy Loads and Water High are likely two more references to trophy fishing phraseology in the poem. That makes nearly 15 such fishing phrases in there…on the whole, hard to ignore, contend against, or explain away as coincidence in my opinion.

          • mr. mensan-fennsan sir

            ‘heavy loads’ could just as easily refer to historical pack trails, which are highly evident on the right map, and no elemental periodic table necessary too

            voluntarily confining yourself within individual self-perception may well lead you down yonder (justifiable) rabbit-holes, but never to truly resurface perhaps..?

            and ‘waters high’ is entirely relative to ones general experience and/or normalisation of known environment
            ..so, i’m backing SL on this one!

            (given his exorbitant [paid!] annual ‘hobbit-fan clubs’ fees ..i mean 🙂 )

          • Thanks Curious Hobbit. The nuance between “possible” and “probable” are apropos here I think. All possibilities are potentials. The prevalence of possible allusions to trophy fishing throughout may well make each such instance more relevant. As the number of such potential allusions increase the probability that they are all related increases IMO.

          • I hear an echos of statistics.

            I have to agree with your conundrum.

            Good luck…..and welcome to Difficulty-land….enjoy your stay!

            :o)

          • no worries mr. fennsan sir

            and i whole-heartedly agree, that the lucid ‘nuances of grey areas’ adds such vividness to our (already too) colourful lives..
            (i mean.. call Willy Wonka someone!! 🙂 )

            but you’re restricting your options entirely to ‘fishing related’ solves – and i only met two (2) people on my Tower Creek hike last Sept – and only one (1) of ’em were humans out fishing that day, for fish.
            (..which effectively limits ya odds to 50%)

            anyhoos, haven’t ya read that profound Lao Tzu truism about ‘no good fishing spot is ever hidden for long’ mantra?

            ( ..oh wait!? ..or was that Gandalf??)
            🙂

          • I do….it will be roughly an 1100+ mile trip for me to go and search.

            Soon the TC Gods will be calling on me to put my action into motion.

            Is the “Windy City” the place where you are?

          • Born and raised in the Windy City. Moved to the burbs at age 14. in 1994 I moved to suburban Saint Louis due to a job transfer. I am still here. I asked because my sister in law lives in Bosque Farms just south of ABQ. We stayed with her for a week prior to Fennboree last year. Won’t be at Fennboree this year due to health reasons. Perhaps next time we visit out there we could meet up.

  32. I hold a BS in cartography. There are some items such as bench marks to be considered and possible last/long hints but I am convinced it is not that difficult. I don’t think finding this requires a degree (pun). I don’t think it will be in the front range either the geothermal activity seems to be further west. I am going to focus on Colorado too far to MT and WY and I hate MM because it’s too hard on my dogs feet w stickers. I am an Okie.

  33. Definition …Brown Relating or belonging to a human group characterized as having relatively dark-coloured skin (chiefly used of peoples of ancestry other than European or African)

  34. I remember a few years ago I was traveling around the states from Arizona. And an interesting part is when I was in the city Mr. Fenn lives. I was sitting outside a restaurant enjoying the scenary. And talking to a man who was telling me stuff like enjoying the great outdoors and a vague story about treasure hidden in mountains. Sounded like a well rounded guy. But at the time, since I was just traveling through. Didn’t think much about it. Now I’m a single father. Grounded in a small hot city in Az. I recently came across Mr. Fenns story. And tons of stuff runs through my head about the conversation I had with that guy. Idk if it was him or not. But in the past week since coming across this story. And doing some intensive searching with maps and clues. I’m surprised that no one has found it

  35. J. Gonz – I will liken TTOTC to eating a ghost pepper. You pick up the pepper, pop it in your mouth, chew, and swallow. For a few seconds you are thinking this isn’t bad at all, then reality sets in as you realize what it is you just picked up and ate.

    Find yourself a search spot, get all excited, and go see what you can find.

    Good luck!

  36. How about Cinnamon Mountain near Gallatin Gateway?

    The rusty stain on the seat of his pants has been mentioned more than once, and I find it hard to believe the principal’s son was playing hooky.

    Or Cinnabar?

      • I had a half dozen spots in SW MT but can’t seem to abandon my current search spot just yet.

        How about White Sulpher Springs? Have you heard of any searches in that area?

        If I come home empty handed this year I may go back to Lewis and Clark adventures next year. Assuming everyone else goes home empty handed too.

        • Where is White Sulpher Springs?
          YNP?
          I like the L&K are where Donnie & F went as a resting place.

          • North of Livingston MT, a bit out of the way but connected by the novels mentioned in TTOTC.

          • Looks like it’s in the highlighted area of the map in tftw & over 5k eleveation.
            I did not read any of the novels he mentioned in his books but may be a subtle hint no doubt.

            If HOB is there, I would have to think most of the other clues are around that area & I don’t think he has mentioned any special places around there & that’s what I’m looking for.

  37. So am i to understand that some of you are implying that the heavy loads are referring to fishing? Are you saying it is the amount of heavy metal in the fish like mercury and so forth or are you implying it has more to do with using the heavier weighted line and tackle? I have bass fished but know absolutely nothing about trout fishing totally different.

  38. New guy here. .. Just wanted to say that for the actual people going out and searching. I wish I could join you. Being a single father of a 4-5 and 6yr old. I don’t see myself having the chance to getaway and join the fun.

    • Take them with you.

      FF says that you should ask a child what “WWWH” means to them. Have you tried that tactic yet?

      Why not take them with you? Let them enjoy the fun too.

      IMO – FF thought of safety measures for all ages…..

      Trust in Fenn!

      ;o)

    • You never know. No one may find it for years to come. In a few years you and your kids may get to plan a vacation around the hunt. Life changes fast. I have decided that hunting the treasure even from cyberspace is still a fun thing to do. I may not get to go as soon as I thought. And even the other hunters have only a small window in summer to look. What you are doing raising those kids is worth more than a box of treasure it is priceless.

      • Well thank you. Just knowing as FF said several people have been as close as 200 feet got me all excited. I wish someone would find it. I sat here in the past 2 weeks as a newbie to this treasure hunt , dreaming of finding it and wishing other times the hunt continues giving people something to dream about finding.. Anyways….. From lil ol Yuma, Az . good luck and be safe searchers.

  39. 2 dissimilar theories: 1) I have the distinct feeling that the solution to HOB won’t be anything with the name ‘Brown’ on a map and 2) Could Forrest have used any color in place of brown? Brown is extremely ambiguous and since it’s also a surname it could lead to many false leads. What if Forrest had used ‘orange’ instead? Where would this lead? He was in the art business for quite some time?! Just thinking out loud.

        • Oh nice, Pdenver! Now we just have to help figure out how sporange relates to the hidey spot!

          • (Second try.) If I’m not mistaken, sporange is a spore, and so is mildew. Mildew? 🙂

          • Nice! So here’s my attempt at the revised stanza:

            “Begin it where warm waters halt,
            And take it in the canyon of sporange,
            Not far, but too far to walk.
            Put in below the home of Orange.”

            Now that puts the poem in a new light! I recommend investigating one of these locations: http://www.weirdca.com/location.php?location=134

          • Pdenver re mildew…”that white stuff ain’t mud”. Now we’re getting somewhere?

          • (Second try.) It seems to be a hint. Wasn’t that said over at Jenny’s?

          • Sorry, you lost me, Pdenver. What was the hint that you’re referring to? A hint from Forrest?

          • Blex, the comment Sandy made about “the white stuff not being mud,” I believe was something Mr. Fenn stated over at Jenny’s.

      • Understand, poetically ‘brown’ works better. But my thought was, what is the home of (insert any color) from an artist’s point of view? Palette? Brush? Canvas? Color wheel?

        • Interesting idea, Mlter. I would think to an artist, the “home of a color” might point towards the source of the pigments used to create that color? May be something there.

        • You mean like the home of “burnt umber”? We are told that shade of brown was on Eric’s color wheel. Try the wheel, lol. I’m still waiting for the light to change.

      • I recently heard that “The Most Interesting Man In the World”, can rhyme that word.”

        I haven’t confirmed it yet….*smiles*

        :o)

  40. What if the home of brown had two significant meanings?… One a place below which to start the physical journey, and one below which the treasure has been placed.

    • DWRock, I’m slowly coming to wonder that, too. FF’s comment about how people find the first two clues, “not knowing where they are,” and then walk right by the treasure… that is sticking with me. The “From there…” stanza might just be describing the area around HoB: not telling us to go there, but confirming where we are. Others have suggested this, as well; it’s making a lot of sense to me.

    • DWRock-imo – home of brown is -0- elevation – so to me below means north – so everything below home of brown would be north of there and that goes for the treasure jmo

      • Just curious, frank (and trying to understand) – what does “-0- elevation” mean?

        And, to you, why or in what sense does “below” mean “north”?

        JAK3

        • JA Kraven – o elevation to me means that there is nothing south of hob – so hob is the lowest in elevation – and below hob you have to know what is hob to understand why below means north imo

          • Thanks frank –

            Your elevation play on latitude and altitude nudges a little perspective shift in my poem-as-map picture. I’ll take a small walk myself on M C Escher’s staircase, see what I can see.

            JAKe

    • You’re welcome SL. You also may want to superimpose some of those Browns with Alligator Pinion Pine areas. Mr. Fenn indicated he might have slipped up by saying too much in an interview and I think it was the reference to the pinyon pine smell at the treasure site. Now, I am speculating that “alligator” pinyon pines might be relevant because of the two pet alligators Mr. Fenn wrote about in his book. Perhaps a hint, or perhaps not. But either way, keep lookin’!

    • SL, just looking at your link and completely agree with Abner being a great possibility because of his profession and that of Fenn’s dad. Great link. Very cool to hear new stuff!

  41. Thanks for the Blog Dal. And thank you all who let your great minds run out into the forum. I have a question about HOB, has anything been said for or against being able to find it on a map?

    • Hi G. Russell.

      “Put in below the home of Brown.”

      Such an interesting and diverse sentence, huh?

      I’ve recently come back from another search and while I still won’t reveal my search area or my “hoB”…..because I have not finished searching the area I chose, thus I have not failed quite yet….I did come across an interesting option that I may have to tinker with.

      We all know the “Brown” is capitalized in the poem. Having it been capitalized, indicates to me it is a Proper noun…..a person or place.

      But let’s take this step one step further.

      Could “Brown” actually be a substitute name for another proper name that is associated to Brown.

      For example. Could “Brown” actually be the english meaning of an Native American word.

      EXAMPLE: Hotah – is the Native American “baby name” that means “white”. After looking at this more deeply, the English meaning of “white” is actually wrong, but should be “gray”.
      http://www.thenamemeaning.com/hotah/

      Now is the meaning actually “white” or “gray”?

      But my point being…..Maybe the word “Brown” is an actual cloak of another name?

      Anyhow…soemthing I had thought of.

      ….and by the way…..for all of those who still think I have failed, because I haven’t the chest yet…..well….I’m still keyed in on a location that still has not been completely searched.

      FYI – I’ll say a couple of things to hopefully help others…..

      Seeker – you pretty much wrote int he blogs….two “descriptions” of a place that to my surprise, waqs an exact match to where I am searching. I thought that was quite uncanny – and now think you and I could be searching the exact same location.

      I’ll try to give a summary of my last attempt under the “Odds and Ends” forum……to give the forum something to read and ridicule!

      :o)

      • You only failed on this trip.
        No chest = failure.
        Unless you were just hiking or picnicking.

        • I failed at not finding the chest. The trip was an overall success. Just like my last adventure to the same region. Though I returned without the TC, I still think the area holds the TC.

          I found two blazes that could be pertinent…..

          a. “Orange diamond with capital “F” int he middle” – attached high on a tree
          – I couldn’t find another one to match it, so I am guessing that there could be two reasons
          + that was the only one – and we looked all around the area with no luck.
          + that there were additional ones, but we couldn’t find them.

          b. small pine tree tagged with a “pink/orange” plastic strip
          – could be a marker for teh FS people to locate a specific region for trees to be cut down. But we sort of ruled this out, when we couldn’t see any trees in the area that were marked to be taken down.
          + Could this be a road marker for the Forest Service?
          + Is it how FF marked the “trail/blaze”…..by using small tress alongside the road.

          There is yet another “marker” I found the first time, but had a very hard time finding it again…..in fact…..where I thought it was, it was not. Very odd.

          Did I fail….I guess it all depends upon how you look at it.

          But thanks for the response Jake.

          • A blaze or “F” on a tree will not stand the test of time my friend.
            Attached on a tree is even worse.

            If you don’t know what the tagged colored splastic strips mean on a tree then you should stop searching & do some research.

            I Can’t even believe you are using trees with markings part of your solve.
            I thought you were smarter than that.

            You failed at finding the chest & clues that won’t stand the test of time.

          • Oscar

            i’m guessing you haven’t found the TC yet either then Einstein.. or ya wouldn’t be so darn grumpy!

            oh well.. maybe next year?? 🙂

          • Hi CH…Jke means well. Shoot, he helps immensely with helping define perception.

            :o)

          • Hi CH…Jke means well. Shoot, he helps immensely with defining the many parameters of perception.

            :o)

          • I haven’t gone searching yet this year CH.
            I’m only going to eliminate a few locations & have a great vacation.
            The treasure has patience.

          • well Jake, hopefully you’ll get to your search area before Zap does
            (just tell him that a large meteor has recently landed in Siberia – that’ll distract him 🙂 )

      • Tim, I figured you had recently returned from a search. Everyone has failed so far. Some by thinking and searching, many by only thinking. I would rather fail by trying ,than fail by doing nothing.

        Cheers!

        • Hi Als….I think the word “failure” is too negative, because of the conatation it affords. One really didn’t “fail”, but were more “unsuccessful”.

          I say this, because one was successful in many ways witht he trip to go and look. They rcvd exercise, fresh air, wildnerness experience, got to see lovely scenery, and it is even possible that they did all of these for the first time.

          SUCCESS!!

          I’m done using the word “failure”…..it just doesn’t seem true in any case.

          One many not have the TC, to claim success at that level, but I know many claim success at others just by going out.

          And I agree…..trying out solutions is all part of the process. Not trying them out, well, that is just being lazy…..*winks*…..

          Cheers back at you!

  42. G Russell that is the question we are all pondering. Some think Brown refers to such things as Brown trout,peoples e ct..the other line of thinking is that Brown is or was an actual person then there are actual places like Brown Mt Brown canyon and so forth. And then there is the metaphoric as Brown meaning totally something else.
    I am leaning towards the first. But who knows for example..
    I recently found a. Robert Delford Brown who was born in Portland CO. He was an artist or some say a whack degenerate who moved to NYC. Portland CO yes Portland cement near Canyon City could be referring to the heavy loads. And a nearby prison hence no place for the meek. I am not looking there someone else can it is rather desolate full of rattlers there.

    • Google Brown’s Cabin, Colorado and zoom all the way in….hope this helps.

  43. something has been bothering me about the absence of the word “the” before Brown. Never great at grammar. So according to the rules of using or not using “The” that i have looked up are as follows: http://www.englishteachermelanie.com/grammar-when-not-to-use-the-definite-article/
    So geography you do not have to use “the” or referring to something in general like fish or trout as generally used however if home of brown is actually a guys real name Brown it would not be proper english…..just saying and believe me this is coming from an Okie …so take it with a grain of salt.

  44. mosby 123,

    Thanks for your advice!

    Ebner R. Brown was not only one of the first (pioneer)school teachers in Colorado, he was also a carpenter. It was this skill that enabled him to build the School House. (It was completed on October 15, 1860).

    It has been in this context that I consider the Schoolhouse to be…The .”Home of Brown.”

    For furthur reference:

    http://www.historycolorado.org/sites/default/files/files/Researchers/ColoradoMagazine_v12n1_January1935.pdf

    A rather lengthy read well worth the time..IMO

    *Note that a photo of Ebner is located at the bottom right corner of page 9.

    Best of luck to you,

    SL

    • Same Abner Brown (sic) I researched last week. Trying to find his home and have been in contact with Canyon City, officials but they were unable to find anything and suggested the history department.

  45. Here’s the info I found on Abner….and his obit appears in the Gazette newspaper of 1922. I’ll send that info in the next message.
    Good luck to all.
    Here’s what I have learned about him so far. But it gives no Canyon City address.
    ABNER R. BROWN (1860) (By Sopris – S. T.) Abner R. Brown, a pioneer school teacher, died at his home in Canon City, September 22, 1922, at the age of 93 years. To those of us who were residents of this region in the 60’s, his name calls up memories of the time when there were no organized school districts. A few venturesome men and women conducted private schools, often undergoing great difficulties, and with small pecuniary reward. Young Mr. Brown, he was about 30 years old, made his first start at school teaching in Boulder. Presumably he had crossed the plains in the expectation of amassing a fortune mining for gold. Not finding the prospects of getting rich in that manner at all flattering and seeing the need of a school in the little settlement through which he had passed on his way to the diggings, he returned to Boulder, and opened a private school. During his stay there he assisted in the construction of the first building erected solely for educational purposes in what later became the State of Colorado. This was during the year 1860. After about 1 year spent in Boulder, being for a part of the time county superintendent of schools, he came to Denver and opened a private school on the west side. In 1862, a school district, having been organized on that side of Cherry Creek, appointed him principal of the first public school of District No. 2, located at 10th and Larimer Streets. This was the first public school to be opened in Denver and the first in the then Territory of Colorado*. A school district had been organized in east Denver and a public school was opened December 10, 1862, but the west side 79 folks beat them to it by 10 days, having started their school December 1. It might be mentioned here that H. H. Lamb was principal of the east Denver school, having as his assistant Miss Indiana Sopris. Mr. Brown had as assistants Miss Jennie Batchelder, Mrs. Fornia, and Miss Glenn. There were more children living on the west side in those days. The west side school was located in a large frame building owned [by] Asa Middaugh, and the east side school was in the Buffalo House, a former hotel, located on lower 16th Street, between Wazee and Wynkoop. In 1864, Mr. Brown retired as principal of the public school and, in company with the Miss Batchelder referred to above, opened a private school on the west side. In 1865 he and Miss Batchelder were married. During the many years that followed his retirement from the Denver Public Schools, he followed the avocation of teacher in Denver and other places in the State, finally taking up his permanent residence in Canon City. Her death occurred at Canon City a few months preceding his death. Four children survive him. * Colorado Territory was established the year after the Federal census of 1860. Noel and others, 1994, section 14.

    • Thanks! I am catching up had to go to Texas and back. I am about 12 hours from canyon city. As i said it is a rough place not so pretty for Colorado. However it is pretty rough here in Okla with the tornadoes excessive heat ice storms earthquakes ect……Yesterday when we hit 96 degrees i was thinking of jumping in the car and going.
      I will look at the map closer.

  46. Bob,

    You may want to try ‘Canon’ City, CO. I wasn’t able to pull up his obituary. I hope that you’ll have better luck.

  47. Great stuff! Thanks. Are all gonna attempt a trip this year? I got off on a tangent hard to reel ones self back. I started looking at brown mud that makes terra cottage pots. It’s everywhere. Easy to get sidetracked

  48. There’s Brown soil; Brown earth. Could be the brown jacket cover of his memoirs, The Thrill of The Chase.

    Brown is here, there and everywhere. (Depending of course where The Flyer has deemed “IT” to be).

    • This is true, my friend. When looking into the etymology of the word “Brown,” I’ve viewed it as a nickname for someone with brown hair or a dark complexion with the search I had done. I haven’t decided if I’m still going to view this word in that direction.

      • With respect to “home of Brown”, I don’t believe that it can possibly relate to a person’s home or anything related to a person/name. I say this because it would not stand the test of time.

        For example: Many “Brown’s” with homesteads, townships, ranches, etc. named after them will most likely change their name as a result of ownership change after a a generation or two [or three].

        I believe that the reference to “Brown” was best explained by Toby Younis in his June VLOG found here https://agypsyskiss.wordpress.com/2017/06/14/forrest-fenns-treasure-home-of-brown-revealed/

        He associates “Brown” to an ‘Artists’ color which is capitalized as Van Dyke Brown.

        Watch his video and see if associating ‘Brown’ to something GEOLOGICAL doesn’t make a lot of sense. I don’t agree with with all of his assumptions, but the association with Brown to something GEOLOGICAL, makes a lot of sense (to me at least).

        –Best regards,

          • Grrrrr! Sorry pdenver that you’re having posting issues.

            As a semi-retired IT Pro, I may have to come to Denver and help you resolve these problems! lol 😉

            Nothing worse than trying to have a conversation, only to have technology get in the way!

            –Best

          • Let me see if I can try this again, and remember what I was trying to say, Fennatical. The word “Brown” is interesting and I continue to do research on it. I haven’t viewed the video yet, but I will. I feel like I’m playing the game of “Twister;” left foot on yellow, right hand on red and it goes from there. If this doesn’t go through, Fennatical, I might take you up on your offer. (Giggle.)

          • Just viewed the video, Fennatical. It’s interesting. I wonder how Toby would tie in the other clues to put in below the “time marker” on the wall, etc..

          • My main point on this concept was to tie “home of Brown” to something geographical.

            Don’t tie “home of Brown” to something related to etymology [the origin of a word and the historical development of its meaning.] It won’t likely stand the test of time.

            Geography doesn’t change [within our perception of time — 100-1000 years]

            Just trying to keep it simple…

            –Best regards

        • I dunno Fenn says : “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia.”

          If most (but not all) existed when he was a kid, that means some didn’t (or their identities have changed).

          With the right map, with the right history book, with the proper research… someone can easily find things that have been forgotten by time.

          IMO, “home of brown” easily can be associated to something manmade or identified (named) by man

          • James,

            When Fenn said ““The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. I think they might still exist in 100 years but the geography probably will change before we reach the next millennia.””

            I have always questioned his intention on that statement. Does he mean “The clues did not exist”? [because he has not written the poem yet?]

            or does he mean what his statement implies? Remember, he is good at double entendre [a word or phrase open to two interpretations]

            –Best

  49. Many get lured into interpretations of brown that require obscure knowledge. This is apparently unnecessary to solve the poem. What if there was a place in the RM that you could go that provides all the information, maps , etc that one would need (including a description of the home of brown)…. all you need is the poem and the correct interpretation of the first clue. Just show up. this place will be in business for a long time… hopefully to the next millenia… but the geography might change a little.

    • DWRock,

      You make a good point regarding the necessity of “Obscure knowledge”.

      But we are dealing with Forrest Fenn, where anything in his mind might not be considered as obscure [to him].

      Just a thought…

      –Best

    • I believe HoB will be obvious when we get there, if we’ve got the correct WWWH & canyon down, but I don’t believe it is an actual house of someone named Brown. Home of Brown as a crossword clue… answer might be…?

      • Lady V,

        I agree with you. However, I believe “canyon down” is a 2nd part of WWWH.

        It is not relevant

        “Begin it where warm waters halts and take in the canyon down”

        It does NOT tell you to take it in the canyon down [it takes the warm waters into the canyon down]… IMO

        Firmly misunderstood by most… IMO

        –Best

        • Fenntastical

          you forgot to mention “it”
          ( ..as in ‘take “it” in the canyon down’)

          what is “it” you might rightfully ask?
          ..well, “it” is what you have to take down said canyon, no matter what temperature the waters 🙂

  50. I dunno- based on a reading of the poem and the relative fact that Mr. Fenn hid the chest as discussed in his poem. I just keep coming back to the home of the Unsinkable Molly Brown and her husband in Leadville, Colorado, before they moved to Denver. Also the geography around Leadville fits some of the parameters of the descriptions in the poem. Plus Leadville to Santa Fe is a 4 h 46 min (274.5 mi) drive via US-285 S. This phrase: “Put in below the home of Brown.” is what made me think of the Brown Family.

    • The other things that struck my eye, and I should note I’m a journalist & historian and not a “hunter” nor a seeker in this particular case where just a couple of things that also stood out which made me wonder about Leadville & surrounding area. Mr. Fenn said; “At least 8.25 miles North of Santa Fe, New Mexico.” Okay if you treat the mileage as an Anagram of sorts then “US-285 S. ” could be extracted from 8.25 N.
      Then there’s the fact that Leadville and most of the area around town has a rough mean Elevation of 10,151′ which fits this albeit barely: “Located above 5,000 ft and below 10,200 ft.” The other thing that struck me was this in the poem, “And hint of riches new and old.” Pretty accurate assessment of a locale where gold, silver, copper, was once mined and sought after. I’m just Monday morning quarterbacking obviously- but after reading the rather copious volume of discussions and ideas on this extremely interesting website, and rereading the poem several times along with the countless interviews over the years since 2010 by my journalistic peers? I dunno, I keep wondering about that town that launched a legend.

  51. I enjoy hearing everyone’s. Ideas. It does keep one’s mind open. Thanks for your willing to share.
    I’ve wondered during the time when FF was ill and the day he went to hide his box. Logic would tell you he was either home and made a day trip or he was at one of his favorite spots and made a day trip from there. So that is why I am concentrating on an area no more than 4 hours one way from his home and yes leadville is a possibility. I think those folks who are searching up in the Yellowstone vicinity are spot on too. If I didn’t feel well I would want to either be close to home or in one of my favorite places to convalesce. What do yall think?

    • Amanda,
      Fenn was diagnosed in 1988, most agree the box was hidden in 2009-ish. We know he was working on the idea/poem for 15 years. And we know he no longer has cancer (he got a new kidney, but not 15 years later, his remission was likely early in that 15 years). It is pretty logical that he was NOT sick when he hid the box.

      The assumption that he couldn’t have driven to the farther states and/or fly are just that…assumptions, is it likely that a short drive from Santa Fe would be ‘less noticible’, sure, but he thought of everything, IMO he could easily be gone for several weeks on a fishing/art/business trip and not raise anyone’s notice, mode of transport doesn’t matter…eventually he used a ground based vehicle. He was not convalescing before/during/after hiding the box…he was healed before he started working on the poem.

      I had a new thought…’home of Brown’ what about a beaver pond? I do not prescribe to the ‘name’ theory, grammar/punctuation are something FF goes against just because, also it’s a poem, ever hear the phrase ‘poetic license’? I do like the crossword clue analogy, IMO IMO IMO Fenn capitalized it to mess with us…if it is a name there are just too many…but a well known trout area (why do so many doubt the role of fishing in his life?) or a beaver dam/lodge are things that could last (but sure, may not).

      IMO the Leadville/Molly Brown/Arkansas river connections have been beat to death…ask yourself what near there would be special to FF? Very few stories from FF about Colorado that I’m aware of.

      • Thank you good to know as that is why this blog is so helpful. Ironically I was doing a lot of metal detecting gem hunting in 2009 between salida all the way up on clear creek south of leadville . Several beaver dams up by Vicksburg. There are a lot of “ditches” mostly dry that were dug everywhere. that parallel creeks I assume for mining purposes. I like the area near Pagosa Springs Springs Also FYI The southern mountains there going south from Mt Princeton like Mt Antero were all named for Native Americans.

  52. I mean this in the friendliest way. Nobody answered my question, however you said some interesting things. In the context of Mr. Fenn saying that a little girl in India could get the first two clues, I was wondering if he said anything about the HOB being discoverable from a map.

    • He didn’t. But google Brown’s Cabin. If that doesn’t work out, there are many more in, and around Colorado, New Mexico and beyond.

      • I did see the browns cabin that you speak of perhaps someone can go take a peek if they live up that way. I also saw brown cabin mine too but it looks to far up in the mts .

  53. @ G. Russell re; HoB and a map, IMO, don’t think F as ever said anything other than the one time interview, paraphrasing ‘if I told you, you’d go right to the chest’. I’m not aware of any mention of being able to find HoB on a map. I can’t even figure out what the LGFI can see!

    • Thank you, I’m sure the only way to be sure about any point of geography in the poem would be to have boots on the ground. It seems though that the first two clues could be ascertained from a map. I think Mr. Fenn indicated that.

      • Hi G. Russell – good advice.

        I also agree, BOTG will give a seeker a different perspective than what tehy find in GE.

        My last search…I thought I would have to transverse about 160 feet down a nice sloping hill…..NOPE!…..it was a 45-60 degree overgrown angle, and not somewhere an 80 year old man would have ventured down.

        So yes….what is in GE….is not what one should expect to see.

        Be safe out there!

    • IMO, the LGFI may have access to a physical Atlas state map but may not have access to Google Earth or Google Map.

  54. **** G. Russell – “In the context of Mr. Fenn saying that a little girl in India could get the first two clues . . . ” ****

    What he said was “The little girl in India cannot get closer than the first two clues.”

    **** G. Russell – “It seems though that the first two clues could be ascertained from a map. I think Mr. Fenn indicated that.” ****

    Personally, I think they can be found with/from a map. But they can’t be ascertained until you’ve found the chest.

    JAKe

  55. Mogollon brownware is a type of pottery. Maybe there are certain places the native Americans went like outcropping of brown mud to make this.

  56. Maybe a geologic map might be worth looking at anyway. Has anyone done this? Who knows what it might reveal?

  57. I can appreciate an Atlas, Astronomy, Children, Educators, Numbers and Pottery, (clay).

    The Flyer also appreciated ‘Physics’ in High School.

        • SL and pdenver, like two friends tied together by a common thread. Stretching back and unraveling my memory reminds me that two friends together in the woods lies a valuable life lesson that can’t be realized in the classroom. Trust is the bond in friendship that never slips and lasts long after the untold secrets of a mysterious adventure.

          • Trust is very important, Strawshadow. Could this word be key to unlocking where?

          • In relation to the HOB you can trust in knowing that where is key. Since the chest is unlocked and the key is in the chest we can trust in knowing that in order to find the key we must first discover the chest. I apologize for what appears to be talking in circles, perhaps a simple yes, trust is very important, IMO, and is key.

    • (Second try.) Gosh my friend, I tried to respond, but it didn’t show up. I’m hoping it can be brought up. I got into a deep thinking mode and now I don’t think I can remember everything that was crossing my mind at the time.

    • Let me see if I can remember my thoughts. I fear I may not remember everything. I could see the connection you made with this. The saying, “The ties that binds” also comes to mind. We have ropes, knots, marriage/”tying the knot,” and several more mentioned in scrapbooks and in his book, but in which way do we use them?

      • Perhaps we use them as hints or notions of guidance. Each a small thread combined together making a string. Each string tied together creates a rope. And to be assured we stay on topic all put in below the HOB. We all are guided by our past and perceive things based on previous experiences. A beautiful poem may leave completely different impressions on each of us as individuals but when shared with another combine to form a joint adventure. Understanding this string of hints, commingled with imagination and knowledge, and knowing where we came from will, over time, take us to a place where we can trust in knowing the next step. Knowing it so well that we don’t need another clue or hint we now can trust the future step because we have learned by our past missteps. A blind man sees beauty by listening to his heart, he has become acutely aware that vision is not seen but imagined and learned over time. So maybe we use them all together, not knowing the full importance of each one until after our next step. The importance of unbiased reflection learned over time.

  58. How I enjoy another journey towards learning! – How I treasure the loyalty given me by two very wise and dear hearts: pdenver and Strawshadow

    Waves of goodwill and of trust abound.

    SL

      • Although I realize my part may be small, I feel honored, and perhaps a bit guilty, in knowing my space occupies the weakest link among this awesome threesome. You two rock, IMO. Thank You for the inclusion.

    • I see that the “string theory” could be used in my “correct solve.” That is what we are supposed to call it, correct?

      • To know it is correct, is to have the treasure chest in one’s hands. Would this be correct?

        • That was my question to ff when he proposed the “correct solve” and “general solve” (on Mysterious Writings blog, on or about 6/5/17). The only reason those terms would be useful would be if ff himself began to respond to searchers telling them they had a “general solve” or a “correct solve” and that does not seem to be happening.

          • I believe I have a “general solve”
            (a location within 50 ft or so) of
            where the chest was hidden,
            however, no confidence that it is
            still there. Seriously, how many
            people would let on that they found
            it and bring on a huge amount of
            attention? Secondly, in this location
            the blaze may no longer be findable
            (due to many many trees blown down)
            FWIW IMHO “Brown” refers to
            Ellsworth Brown, and also Don and
            Pat Brown. Quite certain of that, and
            all other clues except the exact nature
            of the blaze, which I do believe is or
            was hanging in a tree. (Maybe a Grapette soda bottle)???

          • Now you are over-thinking things. When imagination turns to fabrication that would definitely be going in the direction of a “general solve.”

            I would still like to know why SL even came up with the original comment and subject. Kind of came out of nowhere…from what I can see.

          • She sure knew her stuff. Maybe if she unraveled her braids before graduation and focused on her MRS degree instead of her SRM she wouldn’t need to hide her ever clear and cute face behind an oversized cup of overpriced Starbucks. Either way a comma here or there would have most definitely provided a different pitch and eliminated the need for her over emphasized distracting coda.
            Pay no attention to this as I barely understand it, best get back to formulating a viable solution, IMO.

  59. LMN,

    If you “would still like to know where SL came up with the original comment and subject.”

    Feel free to ask SL.

    Coming out of “nowhere?”

    Gosh.

    The following may come “out of nowhere” yet, could have something in common with the threads subject, (Brown). Who, other than The Flyer could actually make that determination?

    https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=25765746

    • Thank you for the link, SL. Seeing the photos is nice. I’m sure LMN will appreciate your explanation.

    • Yes I do. Interesting and I assume there is a family connection. Great find! Just not the type of string that I had assumed by the post.

      Is there a family connection?

  60. Thought the photo was interesting for several reasons, my friend.
    Have a wonderful evening, and will look forward to a brand new day!

  61. Are you not aware that the state animal of Montana (the treasure state) is the GRIZZLY BEAR, AKA BROWN.

    • Never knew that. Thanks DelaYah!
      That covers a very large area though.
      I think it’s somewhere in or on the Madison where it begins.

    • Also very interesting that the state moto is Oro y Plata, Gold and Silver. Just food for thought. I think the clues start in Wyoming though. IMHO

  62. Did you guys know Nathan brown could walk the 20 miles from boulder to nederlands in a hour and a half. That’s a far walk.

    • No, I didn’t. I’m not sure that Olympic competitive walkers can
      walk that fast. IMO>

  63. If you’re searching Wyoming, let me know. I have something that looks very interesting and willing to share it.

  64. If you are in the right spot, there are at least 9 unique truisms for the phrase “below the home of Brown”. My opinion.

      • I don’t think Brown is a person or animal…. it’s a sensory effect relative to light and vision, just as ‘warm’ is a relative touch effect. Purple and yellow flowers in a field or on a canvass maybe, or a bad black and white painting from Amarillo, I’ll bet Fenn and Sloane had lots of discussions about reflected pigment and laser light.

        • Oz,
          It was evident when you used the lowercase for warm…yellow…black…white…that you do not really believe that. Brown is what Brown is.

      • ummm… I found many references to
        Mary Trowbridge Townsend but there was no reference of her having the surname Brown.
        There was another fellow in UFO design history
        named T. Townsend Brown.
        Did you conflate the names? Were they related?
        Did she get married to somebody named Brown?

  65. That is a very interesting thought. It might even be an area where a certain type of pigment or mud for pottery is found. We have a tendency to think of some beautiful place in our mind but it could be quite the opposite.

  66. OS2,

    An Alpine Glow would offer such beauty and warmth. A sensory effect to light and vision could seem to be quite calming.

    SL

    • I think Fenn’s hints spread across both art and science…and geography. I believe he used spectroscopy to determine the authenticity of the Clovis Cache. …. Its a rainbow thing, Brown might just be in Fenn’s rainbow.

  67. In my color inquiries I notice painters refer to purple as a mix of red and blue, and brown is made by adding yellow to purple… in lasers they don’t refer to red and blue so much as magenta and cyan. There is no light wave for brown. It is not in the rainbow of visible color, but yet we can see it. Is that an aberration out on the edge? In pigments brown absorbs all colors but reflects red and green…. anyhow, the point is Brown is a special visible color made up of other colors… so its home might be a place of many colors, particularly purples and yellows. Then again, the whole thing might be a hint at ‘waves’. Sound waves, radio waves, that Taos Hum, Brown Sound thing. Anyhow, I think HOB is not a place or person named Brown nor an animal. Its a sensory effect place… perhaps a time period, like a cancer diagnosis & depression. Probably not a time period that will last hundreds or thousands of years like geography may last. Oh my, this is complicated and not a sure thing at all. Lots to read in color theory… Newton and Goethe, physics & philosophy… and poetry. You only need the poem is not the whole truth.

  68. Jake, I don’t recall many references to blue in Fenn’s memoir, but lots to yellow… when summer turns to yellow of falling leaves, mallards fly south… yellow signals its time to go back to school. Or go south. Yellow is an integral part of brown, and Brown is the big unknown in the poem. If Fenn told you what it was, you’d go right to it. I think it is a memory of a place indirectly associated to a color. I’m on the sensory trail… relatively.

  69. Brown Podzolic soil is a type of Brown soil. Yes, these Brown soils are actually capitalized.

  70. Soils may have a lot to do with capital B-Brown. Reading the Forward & Preface again of IN SEARCH OF ICE AGE AMERICANS by Tankersley. The Forward was written by Douglas Preston, mystery writer and archeologist friend of Fenn. Fenn is prominent in the book. Did you know that In Oct 1999 Fenn hosted and funded a conference called Clovis and Beyond in Santa Fe attended by 1400 people? It “became one of the seminal conferences in the history of American archeology.” Did you know his “Clovis assemblage is the greatest in the world outside the Smithsonian Institution”? Or that he and others wanted to open an Ice Age museum in Santa Fe? As charming as his childhood in Yellowstone was, I think his personally selected graveyard and ‘quest to cease’ may have more to do with his mature interests.

      • Thanks for the refresher links Dal, I knew them both, but neither addressed my interest.

        My focus was on the most specific word in the poem. Fenn made it specific with a Capital B. Our natural association to the word is color, and color has a very rich art & science history of its own. In Fenn’s post-war years he became immersed and well accomplished in both fields, so a little research into art & high-tech color science is wise. Capital Brown may have nothing to do with color brown, but one doesn’t disregard the geography before analyzing it.

        The specific capitalized Brown was chosen for reasons known to the chooser, but TTOTC does not cover much about his mature years of art & science pursuits. Is their absence in TTOTC akin to Colorado’s absence? Is the red letter message ‘Do Not Touch’ or ‘Please Touch’? What would an archeologist (or architect) do? I followed a color trail because it is interesting to me and maybe useful to other searchers.

    • SL –

      I really like the idea of talking about solid or rocks as relates to the HoB. There have been some discussions previously. Maybe you have see Toby’s video on the subject? If we are looking for a brown layer in rock or soil just be careful not to get locked into one are if it’s convenient to your solve, There are many places in the 4 states.

      I will add that I reached out to some experts in Geology and related fields in 2016 or 15. All the rock jocks came back suggesting Las Vegas NM! Isn’t that funny? LV is a virtual hot bead of geology but it is not 66,000 links north of Santa Fe. I always loved that area because I strongly believed in Hermit Peak for some time. And then there is Angel Fire, Agua Fria and an airport and down down down the rabbit hole we go!

      Lugnutz

      • Lugnutz,

        Rabbit holes are a kind of second nature for me. I hope that you will always appreciate and enjoy yours!

        Something more to learn every single day.

        SL

      • It is North for the dumb hick Texan who has 8 kids, loads them up and the bed rolls and says, ” well that thar sign sez 25 North, so by golly, that is where we be headin!” Lol

    • Perhaps Forrest rainbow only includes the primary colors since that’s all he presented in TTOTC. at least that’s all I could find.

      • Hello eaglesabound. I believe with the mention of night, perhaps we might associate this with the color black. Death is mentioned, and this, too, could be associated with this color.

      • (Second try.) Night is mentioned in the book, which we might associate with the color black. There’s “Tea With Olga” which mentions black tea, as well as, Oreo cookies. I believe there are other things that may associate with this color, too.

        • Geez pdenver, I’m sorry.
          I didn’t mean colors mentioned in the book, but actually color in the book. Example, “do not touch” in red.

  71. eaglesbound,

    This is true. It is, however, personal curiosity that I often wander into the land of “why and how.”

    Inherited traits from my Mother.

    • IMO SL,
      The how is easy, he just did it.
      The why is subject to interpretation. The blue was hardest to find, was it for you?

      • The color blue might be associated with water. If one was given a box of crayons and asked to color water, what color crayon would be picked up? Also, “Ode to Peggy,” the poem includes looking up into the sky.

          • I’m not sure what you are asking, eaglesabound. Do you ask if I found the blue on a map?

          • I’m sorry pdenver that I’m not being very clear.
            The TTOTC book is printed in black and white with 3 exceptions. The red words, ” do not touch” is one of those exceptions. I just wondered if you or SL had found the blue.

          • The only blue I see in the book is the back sleeve book cover; Mr. Fenn’s shirt. Do you see any other?

          • I see brown in print. On page 43, in the “The Main Street Cowboys” photo, it looks like green ink was used for the names, although some may think it’s blue, which is very possible. I see the color purple in the Identification Card. Also a greenish/yellow color on page 133.

          • You’re correct pdenver.
            I should not have said black and white since a lot of the text is brown.
            I also see the green in the names and the purple in the ID. I was focusing mostly on the primary colors since the blue is somewhat hidden.

          • Eaglesabound, you must have very good eyesight. I do not see the color blue on page 99.

          • It’s a good discussion, eaglesabound. One could see the hidden color of blue as an emotion in some of his stories. There’s always his Air Force uniform…can’t see the visual color, but know what it is. I keep looking at page 99 for a visual color blue, and I just don’t see it. Since you do, would you be so kind to point out where I might find it, please?

          • I see tiny spots which appears to be a faint blue; 11 o’clock from the word distinction, and another about 4:30-5 o’clock from the initials “JF.” Personally, I think it may have been simply from the printing process, although anything is possible.

  72. I’m confused here, why are we not discussing the home of Brown. the Byrd Naturalist cabin?

          • Boy, I hope I can explain this…
            Ok, on page 99, if you see the 2 arrows , in between those arrows looks like a crack or crevice. In that crevice are 2 blue lines. You’ll need you mag glass of course.

          • I’m sorry, eaglesabound. I still am not able to see the blue lines. I’ve tried the magnifying glass, but I just cannot see any other color in the sketch but the black on top of the ecru (light beige) page.

        • You have my curiosity, eagleabound. I truly wonder if others are able to see what you do.

          • With a microscope at about 75x you’ll see all of the tiny blue red and green dots that make up the colors that you see. If your magnifying glass is powerful enough you might see more blue than the other colors. That being said, I don’t see the blue lines either.

          • I don’t have that book, but a crack or crevice with 2 blue lines sounds like 2 rivers canyon, is there one in the rockies?

        • Eagle, you may be seeing reflected color from the brown ink… check out the short Goethe quote in the History section of Wiki’s Theory of Colors.
          The prism effect of your magnifying glass may be the cause, and its possibly what Ryan D finds when he mentions reading Flywater printed on slick paper under chandelier light. (a post below these) My magnifying glass & light source reflects 3 colors along the edges of the brown ink lettering.

          I continue to think brown & Brown fit into Fenn’s lesson to children about warmth, senses, and relativity. Brown is a unique effect. Sloan and classically trained artists may understand this ‘warming’ of their work. Old masters paintings were first fully painted in browns, then overlaid with transparent oil colors. Lasers used in high-tech do not have a brown beam…. we see brown even though it is not there.

          • Ok except these aren’t blues smuges or dots or any of that. My mag glass isn’t anything special, just a regular one.
            These are definitely blue lines. Perhaps you’re not looking in the correct spot.

          • I don’t find your blue lines Eagle, but i do wonder about modern printing machines. It used to be that to put a tiny bit of a 2nd color on a page took an expensive 2nd run thru the presses. I assume those tiny bits of color (purple- ID card, green -5 cowboys, red -Do Not Touch, etc.) are still expensive special effects. Do they have more purpose? I don’t know but “… nothing is too small to know, “

          • Well OS2, I must have a special book.
            I asked friends to look at that spot and without telling them what they are looking for they all saw the blue lines.
            Are you sure you’re looking in the right spot?

  73. It’s interesting that the color pages of Flywater at the same magnification shows a lot less of those dots that make up the colors. As if more color ink was required to print the pages of TTotC than was needed to print the full color pages of Flywater. And I’m talking about the latest Flywater book, not the one from the 90s.

    The physical characteristics of the book are fascinating to me. Like, why did Forrest use different companies to do the printing and the binding? Why did he use silk? Trying to read the book under a chandelier is exremely frustrating because of the glare and shining light through the pages behaves differently than it does with other books. It may nit be pertinent to the find but I’ve enjoyed learning about the history of book making. I’

    I’ve also experimented with reading the book under different types of light. UV torch, outside in the sun light, polarized glasses, VR with dozens of different filters and my favorite, next to the oil lamp. Different types if light do indeed show me different things and only 3 out of 6 of us can see the differences.

    I started down that rabbit hole over the winter when I noticed that the photo of the chest on the title page is actually a photo of a negative of the chest. I was pretty sure he didn’t use Photoshop so I learned about combination printing, which is what I think he used in the photo of Skippy, amomg others, in a car that is completely different from the one in the other picture. The tires are even flat and the caption says, his smile is real which might just mean that something else isn’t. Last week I had my son recreate the photo of Skippy holding a rock at the brink of the upper falls. I didn’t pose as him but stood in the same place and held the same rock. I’ve also started trying to find all of the spots in Flywater. The more places I visit the more knowledge I get and it’s starting to compound. It’s really more of a safety mechanism in case someone finds it before me. All the knowledge and experience seems like a great consolation prize.

  74. Not being the sharpest tool in the shed; the sense of attaining a higher level of knowledge from something that continues to challenge and fascinate has to be its own reward.

    Feeling blessed and being thrilled at the same time.

    Been awhile. Yeah, I guess it has!

  75. Just curious if any discussion has taken place in regards to Forrest use of the color brown for the beginning sentence in a paragraph with all the words printed in brown? TTOTC Specifically pg. 128; And then I got cancer; and pg. 141; Cancer is a terrible word. I do not notice this happening in the book anywhere else with the exception of page 15 with the whole page in brown type and enlarged. If this has been discussed before and determined to be without merit or reason, please disregard. Thanks

  76. Just curious if any discussion has taken place in regards to Forrest use of the color brown for the beginning sentence in a paragraph with all the words printed in brown? TTOTC Specifically pg. 128; And then I got cancer; and pg. 141; Cancer is a terrible word. I do not notice this happening in the book anywhere else with the exception of page 15 with the whole page in brown type and enlarged. If this has been discussed before and determined to be without merit or reason, please disregard. Thanks
    (If I posted twice, sorry!)

    • wow! could this be the ‘to my uncertain knowledge’ comment…

      why so quiet on HoD today?

      IMO?

    • I have been curious about that too Fenngshui. And then I got a cancer anagrams to Arc to ancient hanged. Along with the other snippets about lengths of rope and people being hanged, points to a place that looks like a cemetery if you use your imagination.
      HOB is actually very cryptic, one of the better ones I have seen in a while.
      Best of luck.

  77. Fenngshui,

    Nice catch! I’ve been over the TTOTC book a dozen times now, and I never actually noticed that. I’ve picked up on some oddities, but never that specific one. But still… good eyes!

    S.F.T.E.

    • Thanks, just felt that those two specific anomalies may be of importance. IMO

  78. F has stated something like – if I told you where HOB is, you would go right to the chest. (Sorry for not being exact with the quote.). I have always thought that the assumed interpretation is that right means directly, but that an additional meaning is that right is directional (right, not left) to the chest. Go right (not left) from the home of brown to get to the chest. Just my interpretation.

  79. I honestly believe a child could tell us what the home of Brown is and describe it in pretty good detail too!

  80. For me, the reality of actually making a boots on the ground search is pretty slim. The Rockies are a pretty far piece from Tennessee. However, i have truly been enjoying the puzzle poem and would like to share a bit of info that may have been or perhaps may not have already been talked about. That is the Tribal leader Francis Brown.

    Francis Brown was a prominent figure informing the government about Indian archaeological, anthropology and sacred sites. He was also a founding member and chairman of the Medicine Wheel Coalition. With his background and Forrest Fenn’s passion for digging up indian relics on a large scale, the two gentlemen had to have met a time or two.

    My opinion is FF is paying tribute to Francis Brown as a significant part of the treasure hunt. I believe “home of Brown” is as literal as an obituary can make it… Southeast of Riverton, WY.

    http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/obituaries/francis-burnett-brown/article_11adc200-9b7a-599a-acdf-34890872aabb.html

    All that said, just north of there is Wind River Canyon, Hot Springs at Thermopolis and Boysen Reservoir. Hopefully, this info will hookup with some of yours and we will be kicking the treasure chest soon. Please be generous to my retirement fund when we cash in!

    SmokyBaer

    • Smokey,
      Nice catch! The article and context is sure compelling. Good luck to you in Tennessee.

    • SmokyBaer –

      I want to say a couple of things to you.
      First, that is a great idea and hope lots of people read it. So many rabbit holes lead to Wind River. This provides a great idea for the Home of Brown. Of course Fenn would want to honor such a person!

      Also, you can search for the Fenn treasure wherever you are! Search in the Smoky Mountains and tell us all about it! Why not? I have searched at Cahokia and Staved Rock in Illinois. I have searched fro the Fenn Cache in Tulum Mexico!

      Lugnutz

      • Lug I know you were already keyed into this area, I too found this link very interesting. Put in takes on a more traditional meaning (IMO), but the directions are at least 3 possibles! probably many more. And also, just going on the article…what about ‘home’ meaning his home in Taos…or is it his final resting place…or is it where he grew up? But I really like the link between FF and Francis’ outreach about protecting areas important to the tribes (especially archeological sites). I have not come up with a direct link to FF but the University of WY dept of anthropology has potential – anyone read about the 12 yo kid who wrote a program that helped identify high altitude archeology sites in the Wind River range? very cool story and I wonder about FFs links to Lander as that town is a base for many mountain related endeavors.

  81. I would like to share some ideas related to the location of HOB. First of all, I am one who considers this line of Fenn’s poem to refer to a person, not to some animal species or abstractly defined concept. I have done a fair amount of research on places in the Rocky Mts with the name of Brown. I estimate there about 30 places in the four search states of NM, CO, WY, and MT. There are undoubtedly lots more places, but I am talking about features that would show up on a USGS topographic map. This would exclude places such as the home of “Charlie Brown” (Colorado Springs) or Durango (many brown-skinned immigrant settlers).

    So what if I told you that I have found a string of numbers in either Fenn’s poem or one of his books that if plotted as a certain type of coordinate system, falls directly on a place with the name Brown? I was certainly stunned to see this. The chances of this coincidence are almost infinitesimally small. There is one major problem – it falls on private land surrounded by National Forest, most unlikely as Fenn’s treasure site in my opinion. But read on.

    Now Forrest Fenn is enigmatic as to whether there are hidden coordinates in his writings. However he has commented to the effect “If you had it’s coordinates you could find the treasure”. So why would he even say this, and what if “it’s” refers not to the actual treasure location but to an important clue location? Just food for thought.

    In anticipation of reader questions – yes the location does match all of the other clues, and yes I did make one brief trip to the area without success.

    So does anyone out there have similar experience with coordinates? Positive or negative feedback is welcome, but just don’t ask me for the coordinates.

    McKendree

    • McKendree –

      Well, I hate to tell you this, but it is indeed coincidence. The word coincidence exists to describe precisely this. If you didn’t have this word you wouldn’t know what to say. You would stumble around going golly the treasure should be hear because I have the coordinates AND the place is called Brown’s XXXXX. Then someone would say to you, Hey that’s called coincidence.

      All joking aside I would love for you to just tell me what you are referring to. Something like I develop the coordinates using this technique. Then I go to the coordinates and look, Brown’s Canyon. Show me that and I can tell you what I think.

      Lots of people, I mean LOTS of people, say they have developed coordinates and they never show the math.

      Lugnutz

      • There’s also the possibility that it’s both NOT a coincidence but is also wrong. Although I find that to be even more unlikely with Forrest being such an honest fox…I mean guy and all. I think telling a lie without it being a lie could be referred to as a white yarn, or string, if you will.

        After reading Khayyam I realized that an author of a poem can capitalize anything he or she finds to be important to them. Like the mark on the tail of your britches after sliding down the fire escape and feeling so proud of yourself for coming up with the idea. The whole thing seems too clever and ambitious for Holden to have even thought about so who knows what to believe. He must have been talking about a different book. 😉

        • I think he writes frim the heart and doesnt invest additional energy editing.

          Damn the torpedos!

        • You might be right that it might not be coincidental, but still wrong. I wouldn’t put it past Fenn to place a “red herring” in one of his writings to lead a searcher to the wrong spot, but yet a scenic one worth visiting. Also it could be good “training” for the real location.

          I’m not sure I agree with your second point about the capital B being poetic license. I think he capitalized Brown for a very good reason. If Brown can refer to anything or anyone brown, then I would think the poem solution is virtually impossible.

          • The capital B may indicate the surname Brown.
            There will be so many Browns you find over the years that you search you will wish you had never decided on that!

            Lot of Browns out there!

          • Yeah, maybe there are too many Browns. That is of course unless you had its coordinates. Also, like I said in an earlier comment, I think that Brown is a place named on a topographic map, and if you confine that to the four search states and even further, if it must be in the Rocky Mountains between 5,000 and 10,200 feet I think you can eliminate a lot of potential HOB’s. One more thing: it occurs to me that there is only one poem clue that realistically could lead to a direct geographic location without the need to decipher some cryptic meaning in the words, and that is HOB. Well maybe “no place for the meek” but this is a little convoluted as to meaning. Isn’t it possible that Fenn has given treasure seekers some type of definitive hint, whether or not he has imbedded its coordinates? Think about it – you can’t pinpoint a road, a creek, a canyon, or drainage divide with a single set of coordinates, but you can pinpoint a Home of Brown. Just food for thought. Not saying there aren’t holes in my thinking.

          • There are two references to brown in TTotC that paper to have had a significant impact on his life. One caused him to never eat brown gravy and the other was a very bold move that gave him great satisfaction and may have led to a time in his life closer to that of Laura Croft or Indiana Jones than he is willing to admit.

            Personally, I won’t rule those out but I’m leaning pretty heavily on your side and think it mosy likely to be a proper noun.

          • Forrest gives a few good hints, along with a lot of very, very, weak ones. How you tell one from the other is the trick. It’s like searching for a few navy blue needles in a stack of black needles. No Red Herrings. I understand a good bit, but I still don’t have the Chest. Good Luck to All Searchers. Ken in Georgia

    • McKendree
      Are going on an excursion using said coordinates?
      It’s not a big deal if you live within a few hundred miles of your search area.
      I’d like to hear how many times you’ve ventured out and whether you’re more than a days drive away, regardless of which of the four states you’re keen on.

      • I have already been on one excursion to the area with nothing found. However, I don’t think I spent enough time looking around the possible area of the “blaze” and am thinking of going back. Problem is, the access road is very rough and rocky even for a high clearance pickup truck. This leads me to wonder whether this is the right area, because if Fenn really did use a car to put in the treasure, it is unlikely he could have made it on this road. However, roads commonly deteriorate when they are not maintained by the government, like this one. I can tell you that the search area is secluded and beautiful, but the access road is definitely “not for the meek”.

        I live within a few hundred miles of this particular search area, but have been to four areas so far, the most distant one being about 700 miles. My search areas include one in Wyoming, two in Colorado, and one in New Mexico. Based on this, you might guess that Colorado is my state of choice for the treasure location.

        • He said he used a sedan. North American definition from google: an enclosed automobile for four or more people, having two or four doors.

          However, if the road is dangerous, or you could be stranded and die if you busted an axle then I’d say it’s too risky.

          • Ryan,

            When was the last time you saw with your own eyes a broken axle on a car? For me it is never. Axles just don’t break very often. If they do, it is because they are under great duress, like at a drag strip or a 4 x 4 with those super-duper tall tires – vehicles none of us in this search drive. I’ve seen many busted ball joints and tie rod ends, and in every case those happen from neglect. Again, highly unlikely any of us chasers are driving those kinds of vehicles in our searches.

            If a man made a mechanical device, it will eventually break down. Every car made will inconvenience you at some point. (Lifted from Rolls Royce nomenclature.) If you go into the wilderness with out a “survival kit” in your vehicle, you’re not planning thoroughly enough.

            I’ll get off my opinionated soapbox now.

            Be safe out there, whatever you are doing.

          • Ryan D

            i’ve driven the out-backs of W.A in a kombie, and ridden on clay forestry roads in the Blue Mountains on an old XJ 750..

            and the only poss chance of dying from a broken axle (imho) is if the very heavens parted on some poor unsuspecting soul, and swiftly ejected a broken-axleWAIT A MINUTE!!

            ..is that..? ..is that the heavens par

            [ – end of transmission – ]

        • McKendree, I have driven my stock 1967 Ford Falcon 4 door sedan (6 cylinder automatic, non-posi rear end) about 12 miles into the woods on a two track “road” designed for 4 wheel drive trucks. It’s not the dog in the fight, but the fight in the dog – or in the case, the driver in the vehicle. Let’s just say I surprised everyone in the hunting camp when I pulled in.

          • I totally agree. I have been on rough back roads myself in a sedan, including a Volkswagen beetle. The question is, would Forrest himself have done the same? By the way, the solve area I refer to is one in which you could walk out to civilization in less than an hour if necessary, not to mention cell phone coverage for a broken axle or other breakdown. My point is – do you want to be off on some wilderness trail walking without cell service miles from civilization, or broken down driving in on a crappy road but a short distance from help?

          • Absolutely! I’ve been doing it since I was a teenager in my ’77 Dodge Charger. My crowning moment was coasting down a potholed dirt road with a little bit of sliding around the cliff edged corners to make sure I could make it to the gas station at the bottom of the pass. My gas gauge always got stuck and I was never good at keeping track of my miles.

            My buddy and I were rocking back and forth as my Charger rolled to a stop adjacent from the pump and I said, “Like a glove!” The coast down probably wasn’t as dramatic as I remember it being but looking back tends to produce the effect.

            As far as the broken axle goes, I apologize. I agree that they’re hard to break and even then you can usually still get around. I was working on my son’s Traxxas RC truck just before I wrote that post and had to replace the broken axle. Apparently I’m not that good at multi tasking either…

    • I found those numbers too! Very positive information, as soon as I make it to the States, I’m in Australia. I have a exact location, not 5, one! Good luck all!!

      • If your numbers give an exact location for the treasure itself then we are not on the same page as far as finding hidden coordinates.

    • McKendree, don’t listen to the nay sayers. Coordinates are a very high possibility, along with a little math. That would require a number system, and, I’m all with that.
      If you feel you have found something that works, without force fitting, I’m sure you are your hardest critic, then take it where it leads.
      You are not the only one with a number system, and yes Lug, some have showed the math, it’s just not likely someone is going to convince another of a solve when they have their own way of looking and reading the poem.
      McKendree, I also have a number system and coordinates so you’re not alone. I also see that the coordinates don’t take you to the end spot, and, other references can yield coordinates possibly to the blaze, so it would be wise to continue your thought process to satisfaction or the realization of a dead end. There are many ATF comments that support coordinates, along with just common sense. How do you leave your home with confidence, to a certain spot, when it’s possible that all the clues cannot be solved from home? What would be a good backup to standing the test of time? And, like you said, if you had the coordinates, you could walk right to the chest.
      The only thing is to realize if you are actually force fitting a situation or a clue. Sooner or later, all the “coincidences”, stop being coincidences. I like the words ‘by design” better.

      • Exactly. You have well summarized my point of view. I am trying to suggest to fellow searchers and blog followers that maybe you need to solve an important clue location – then you can figure out the remaining clues to get to the treasure by map navigation and intuitive thinking. Maybe too simplistic, but it is at least a start.

        • Hi McKendra.

          Welcome to Difficulty-land….where clues that are figured out are held close to the heart.

          Good luck to you.

          :o)

          • No one is going to post a winning solve. The only thing you’re going too see on the blogs are the dodos.

      • Charlie –

        I will defer to your knowledge of coordinate solves.

        I have nver personnally seen anyone show what letters lead to which nubers and been presented with a full answer like the following.

        41°24’12.2″N 2°10’26.5″E

        I would like to see someone come up with actual coordinates. What I have seen instead are people who come up with a number, seemingly feom nothing, and refer to it as coordinates.

        If you know anywhere I can see the math tjat would be great.

        What did Fenn say about coordinates?

        Lugnutz

        • Lugz – i can honourably assure you (as an absolute truism) that when Charlie an’ me finally crack Forrests co-ord enigma-machine..

          ..you’ll def be the first person we inform 🙂

          ( ..oh wait!? – did i cross my fingers properly..?)

          • Hobs –

            More than one genius has used coordinates and then not found the treasure, right?

            I would like to see how any one of them came up with the coordinates from the poem.

            Surely there is an example we can review?

            Lugnutz

          • You have to think outside the box in terms of coordinates. This includes source, reference, and system. There is a result, right or wrong, which leads to a plausible set of numbers. Trust me.

          • Your last 2 words were “trust me”… Please tell us why we should “trust you”.

            Just sayin’!

            Best Regards

          • Well, “Trust me” doesn’t indicate anything requiring your faith – it means to all readers that I am honestly describing a result that you are unlikely to duplicate, and even if you did I wouldn’t necessarily recommend following up.

          • Bobs – if Lugs doesn’t answer “curious hobbits link to Lucille Ball” re: coolest TOTC thing ever..

            then we should both seriously consider reporting him to Dr. Phil, immediately!!

            jus sayin.. 🙂

    • McKendree – quickly!! ..what are the co-ordinates!!??

      ..oh wait!? – i wasn’t s’posed to ask that.. whoops, sorry 🙂

      but yes, i def concur that ‘Brown’ is capitalised for a definite reason, maybe it even qualifies as ‘thee key word’ imho, as it seems to be the most ‘controversial’ word, on HoD to date

      and yes too, in regards to co-ords/bearings between possible clue locations, re: “If you knew the geographic location to each clue, it would be a map to the treasure/the treasure is out there waiting for the person who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.”..

      but the statement that itches my synth-nylon cranial the most is; ‘…it seems prudent to do a little investigating about higher things.’

      does Forrest mean ‘zoom out’ ..in a simple geographical-scaling sense? ..or was he intending a vertical height?

      ( ..i mean, does “10200ft” sound highly suspicious or what?!)

      ( ..obviously Forrest doesn’t adhere to ‘Swedish rounding’..
      or he woulda just said “10k-ish or wateva!!” ..right?! 🙂 )

      • “Somebody could find it tomorrow and it may not be found for a thousand years. ***I’m looking at the big picture. A lot of people who are searching for the treasure don’t see it the same way I do.*** I would love if someone found it tomorrow but if nobody found it for a hundred years, that’s okay with me too.”

        CH,
        I’d be more interested in what the big picture might be. Maybe zooming out is a scale needed to be looked at closer.

        “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

        Might fenn be indicating a time span of thinking is needed? He did say he was thinking down the road. Was the down the road thinking only for the longevity [ existence ] of clue clues reference to be around, or maybe the idea, down the road, is how he wrote the poem… as the big picture.

        fenn’s thought process seems completely different that most of what is being talked about, imo. We can talk about what we think clues are until we’re blue in the face, talk about what clues refer to as landscape or locations… yet, even when on location, apparently, we can see what a clue really is [ even after those clues have been deciphered, indicated, told of, and the searchers process…]

        It seems wwh is a physical location [geographically]
        Canyon down? hoB? No meek place? Heavy loads? Water high? [geography, right?]

        Not far, but too far to walk ~ what scale are we to use when we think about geography?
        Would it be too far fetched that a geographical time scale is needed to be understood for 100 yrs, 1000 yrs, even 10,000 years “down the road”?

        “The person that finds it,” Fenn said, “is going to be a person who thinks and plans and has an analytical mind and uses logic, not someone who has a hunch.” 

        “Craig, there is no substitute for thinking and planning and observing and looking at maps, unless it’s the desire to keep it simple.f ”

        There’s a lot of thinking going on by searchers [some very intelligent folks, for the most part] Yet, IMO, there is a lack of chatter about “planning” in regards to the solution. A lack of “observation” in regards to the solution, and a lack of a possible connection to fenn’s thought of “down the road”[ geographical time] as he wrote the clues in the poem.

        “What surprises me a little is that nobody to my uncertain knowledge has analyzed one important possibility related to the winning solve. ff”

        JUST ONE? important possibility… I highly doubt its a clue itself… so what could it be?

        “Can the blaze be pre-determined by the poem or can it only be determined at the search area?- becky
        Becky, you are a rascal to ask that question and I have been sitting here for about fifteen minutes trying to decide what to say. Well, it has been thirty minutes now and I think I’ll pass on the question. Sorry.f ”

        Why did it take so long [ 30 mins. ] for fenn not to answer the question… yet felt compelled to have the Q&A posted? We have been told all the information to find the chest is in the poem [ and the book will help with the clues ] We have been told the “blaze” is a clue… we seemingly need to be wise enough to have “found” the blaze…

        ” …I have done only a few things in my life that were truly planned. Hiding the treasure chest is one of them. And at the end, the one who finds the gold will not feel lucky, but instead, will ask himself,
        ”what took me so long?” ”

        Time, imo… seems very relevant to fenn. In planning, in thought, in the process, and in the execution.
        You said; “but the statement that itches my synth-nylon cranial the most is; ‘…it seems prudent to do a little investigating about higher things.’ ”
        Maybe the higher ‘scale’ is not so much a physical elevation.

        Only attempting to, put the pieces together in the possible correct order of fenn’s line of thinking.
        “If you knew the geographic location to each clue, it would be a map to the treasure…”

        Geography [in part] is the study of the surface of the planet, and the affect and causes, over time.

        Important possibility?
        Looking down the road?
        Don’t see it the same way I do?
        Looking at the big picture?
        No going to find it on spring break or a Sunday picnic?
        Over complicate the clues by knowing a bunch of crap outside the box thinking?
        Oversimplify the clues? [even when deciphered???]

        Who’s brown house, or elevation factors don’t seem too important until we can understand those questions above….

        Disclaimer; all that pondering above is nothing more than my, simple opinion.

        • Seeker, you presented some leading thoughts…
          a) Is ‘home’ a place Brown used to be? In a landslide’s debris… where is the ‘home’ of the debris? Where is the ‘home’ of a flood or lava carried rock? The ‘home’ of the trout? Is home an origin place?
          b) 30 minutes to think and declines to answer? … possibly both possibilities are true & to declare one would invalidate the other? Will you know what the blaze is because of where you are or where you’ve been? Does the journey from WWWH to the Blaze condition you to recognize the blaze?

          • OS2,
            I like the words “…condition you to recognize..”
            Understanding the clues ‘prior’ [ whether prior to a physical search or on a physical search ] Condition, is the circumstances leading determination.

            Or one reason why the chest will not be stumble upon, idea. Even if a searcher was to be close… unless the right condition were presented and understood… they will not locate the chest.

            The point of why fenn may have taken so long to answer the question, isn’t about him not wanting to give a useful answer, imo… but more to the fact… why post this Q&A at all with an obvious declining to answer it. He could have just skipped it all together. or stated something like; in a word, yes… lol.

            Time was the relevant factor imo. and I have to wonder if ‘time’ is a relevant factor with understand the poem, the poem’s clues, or maybe just that clue [ the blaze ].

            You said; “… possibly both possibilities are true & to declare one would invalidate the other? ”
            Sure, But yet, we have been told the path would be certainty beforehand… and … if we’ve been wise and ‘found’ the blaze, which seems to imply a searcher’s physical presents… So both, would have been as reasonable answer, to fenn’s prior comments, right?

            Was the reason for posting the unanswered question about being polite to respond a question just because one was asked?… or is there a reason for the ‘time’ it took, not answer a question about this “specific clue”?

            I could be reaching here, however, the poem says once we have ‘found’ the blaze… we need to do something for our quest to cease.

            I just don’t think we simply look down, and wallah, the chest is there, and now run before you get caught with it.
            I think tarry scant means just what it says [imo] to “linger” a “small amount”…time… and “gaze” [steadily look~study], for the quest to be finalized. All the words after “found” the blaze’ have one thing in common.. time. [when we look at all the usages of the meanings of those words]

            So if found means; to come upon… we’re still missing the “wise part” of the “found” the blaze… imo we need to ‘discover’ the reason for that blaze we found that the clues lead us to.

            Now I have to ponder… do the clues themselves “condition” the thought of how we “utilize” the blaze? [ as a pointer and not so much a marker ].
            Condition in the thought of; [the state of something to its appearance] ~ surroundings, environment, setup, habitat, setting…
            That makes more sense to having all the “ingredients” needed, than just hiking thru a simple course.

            Thanks OS2 you got me thinking again.

          • Thanks for your thoughts Seeker, though they muddle me more than settle me. I wish you would create some examples to explain your thinking. Tell me a story, paint me a picture.

            Since ‘home’ could be an ‘is-or-was’ place, and is located somewhere in your time factor… Suppose the blaze is some kind of arrowhead emblem… does the emblem have a story of its home places? Was it’s sharp point at home when it was found by the collector, or where it found home in the rib (costilla) of some deer? Was it’s home in the brown bag of the archer at his pueblo or was its home in that celebratory tree at Palo Flechado Pass? Is its home the place where Clovis artisans manufactured it or in the obsidian hill bearing its raw material. Come on, what is the landscape between home & blaze.

          • OS2,
            Your using the time factor, or thought process, to find a clue… My thought is more about understand or interpreting the poem, involving time.
            Not unlike recalling a place we visited years back in our own past and revisiting them today observing what is to what was. Example; fenn’s family home is nothing more that a slab of concrete today… but at one time, it might have been the warmest [comfortable] place he ever knew… yet still to us, it’s nothing more than cold concrete.

            Should, for example, the habitation of the this location be a clue… don’t we need to understand how time is involved with that clue? or do we just get lucky and guess this is [ for example] wwwh… and not I have to go miles and miles to find a canyon down.

            I’m suggesting that something is missing from those inquirers I mention above for a full understanding of WHY a certain wwwh, why this hoB [ if there is more than one ~ guess ] What exactly is “too far to walk” IF the thought of time is involved. I would think that, fenn was thinking down the road [ over time ], the poem itself might include time as well, and not just the longevity of how long a clue will stand [physically] the test of time. But how the poem is laid out…

            This is why I have asked in the past or even suggested… there is a difference to saying “begin it” vs. “begin it where” and time might be the factor to seeing the difference.

          • Ah Seeker, so many words, so little clarity. You miss my point… there might be a theme or story being told by the poem. Does it take 15 years to simply list a few trail markers?

          • OS2,
            That’s my point… I don’t think they are ‘just’ trail markers. There might be more to the big picture that fenn was talking about.
            I also think the words chosen need more thought than their common usages, and therefore combining them was a difficult task.

            I’m not offering answers.. I leave that to the know it alls. I’m attempting to open up dialog to chat about those questions I mentioned, and referred to by fenn.
            The big picture, the important possibility of winning the prize, the thought of down the road hundreds of years, even thousands etc.

            The quotes posted are some of the reasoning I look at the poem as involving time. Heck at this point [ 7 yrs in the hunt ] clues are being solved, yet I’m perplex to understand how, when the searchers who indicated them just don’t know. [prior, on a search, and after ~ it doesn’t seem to matter when or how ]. Something is being overlooked throughout all the stages and a connection is not being made.

            Call it a theme or a story or a journey or a myth.. but whatever it’s called, it’s not understood. It might be something like the medicine wheel that can hold all the clues.. and still having the clues refer to as places, directional, seasonal, plants and animals, celestial event, and designed for telling of a personal journey [for the most part] A map if you will with all the correct details over time… In theory of course.

            *Your destination is small, but its location is huge.
            Is that comment referring to today’s scale of the land? or land over a time scale?
            We have at least 80 years we have talked about… might it be more?

            No more ‘many words’ just more thinking.

        • Regarding Fenn’s poem line ” not too far but too far to walk” – here is a thought for followers to contemplate. In the preface of his book Too Far to Walk FF says “for me now it’s just too far to walk”. This refers to his boyhood Yellowstone experiences, and almost seems to be saying “don’t bother looking in Yellowstone or any other national park for that matter”. Taken literally he may be stating that it’s just not possible to go back in time to re-capture his youth. However, in a more subtle allegorical sense he may also be referring to Chapter 7 (Cloncy and Me) of the book. Remember, he wanted to drive Coach Cloncy in to their favorite fishing spot because it was too far to walk for his ailing coach. He was denied permission to drive a car in, and I suspect to this day Fenn harbors a grudge against the Park Service. Could it be he is simply saying “don’t look in Yellowstone or any other national parks, because I can’t or won’t go back and anyway it is illegal by their rules” ?

          Aside to Becky: You asked whether the blaze can only be pre-determined by the poem. I have thought about that myself and I think you have to get close to the final solve location and then search for some type of blaze (marker). However, it is also possible that the blaze is some type of public survey point (section corner or benchmark) that is marked with boundary stones or brass cap. I can tell you I have visited four such public survey sites with no success.

          • McKendree – you noted “Colorado is my state of choice for the treasure location.” Wish you the best of luck in your theory. Colorado is certainly a very nice place to go and the mountains are beautiful there.

          • McK;

            “If you’ve been wise…” This is past tense, so If you had been wise in the past and yesterday, or some other day before today, seen the blaze… When and where could you have been? How about when you were looking at, or reading TTOTC yesterday or same day before – You saw something in TTOTC that COULD be a blaze,, and filed this image away in your memory.

            Then, some later day – today – you see the same thing “on-site”, and you immediately KNOW that what you are looking at is the blaze….”And found the blaze”…

            Hypothetical – You see a picture of a fish in TTOTC (There are several pictures of fish in TTOTC) – then when you are searching, you spot what looks like a fish carved onto a tree stump. You KNOW immediately that this is your blaze. Make sense? Does to me. JDA

          • Maybe all the clues are references to benchmarks? Using lake Mead as an example of waters halt and elevation markers of the lost of waters, which gives, canyon down as to how far down… brings a full circle idea that heavy loads and water high could be the dam. While the blaze might be a geo-marker for the lake’s end…? Just a fast example… but we’ve been told not to guess or work on a hunch. I think if fenn did use the idea, harbor a grudge, seems to imply he doesn’t care consequences that would arise for the searcher… Yet he has implied; what if there are no legal question? Seemingly given thought to not having a person do something they should or couldn’t.

            I find it hard to think that fenn wrote the second book to explain anything… that makes the first book incomplete, and/or the poem as, not solvable with certainty and more a guess or hunch. I’m not saying the second book wouldn’t help in someway [ we know now that the chest has been ‘eliminated’ as being in Canada]… but not as a clarification of a clue.

        • Seeks
          tbh, i’m only toying with the concept of scaling and co-ord points at mo, but Forrests statement about “person who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.” certainly seems to sound like bearings and/or triangulation may be a valid factor – and if i had to pick said “spot” i would (wildly) guess it to be WWWH.

          yes, Becky is def a rascal (i like her already! 🙂 ) for making him have to think intensely for 30 minutes, yet still unable to answer, even elusively
          (..i’m picking that the answer is ‘yes’ – jus quietly)

          does “one important possibility related to the winning solve” coincide with the ‘key’word?
          I sincerely hope so ..otherwise we’ll all be chasing our tails looking for two important factors, just when i thought ONE was difficult enough to solve 🙁

          not sure how ‘time’ factors into Forrests equation of things, but i do think that it could easily refer to “too far to walk” given that he seems to be referring directly to the searcher in stanza two (as opposed to himself in S1)
          ..so, how does he know what’s too far to walk for any of us, unless it’s a time factor?
          (tidal maybe?)

          McKendree
          i’ve also toyed with the idea of the blaze being a survey/bench mark – but that seems to conflict with Forrests “GE and/or a good map”statement.

          not immediately dispelling that notion yet though

          • Both could provide a survey point, but a good topographic map is the best bet in my opinion. Google Earth would be more awkward to use and would require a plug-in. This doesn’t mean I am leaning toward a survey point as the blaze site.

          • The blaze could certainly be on Google Earth or on a good topographic map. That is if you follow or believe other clues to the location, which may or may not point to a survey point.

          • yep, i’m def on-board with your topo-map comment – i love ’em to bits too 🙂

            but unless you possess the grand-daddy of all software components, i wouldn’t put much faith in obtaining an accurate bench-mark from GE anytime soon..

            ( ..unless your acceptable margin of error is “LOTS” 🙂 )

          • Timing is important.

            I believe that there are several words that are key. “One important possibility” relates to one of them.

            All IMO.

      • I wasn’t aware of FF’s statement about “higher things”. Can you supply a source for that comment? Also, is that statement about having the coordinates to all the clues his? I have seen his statement to the effect that “if you had its coordinates………” but this seems to refer only to one clue. I can tell you that I certainly don’t have more than one set of possible coordinates, and for him to have implanted numbers for all nine clues seems improbable.

        I have wondered the same thing about the 10200 feet number. Peculiar why he didn’t just say 10000 feet. Some, including myself, have speculated that the treasure location is halfway between 5,000 and 10,200 feet elevation or 7,600 feet but that isn’t much of a clue.

        • Maybe coordinates help you determine if the TC is 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe… doesn’t 8.25 seem like a rather exact number…?

          • Mick,

            Fenn’s original statement was 66,000 links (surveying).

            Turns out to be 8.25 miles … I’m not sure of the significance though?

            Best regards,

          • There is the possibility of the Vara chain which is a Spanish measurement. Just to make things more difficult.

          • Or if a gunters chain is 66ft he might in some fashion be trying to say a hundred miles in the. Fennameese language. One of my searches is 100 miles from Taos.

          • Fennatical,

            Thanks for the 8.25 miles clarification… 66,000 survey links. Still seems like an odd, arbitrary distance. Maybe a fairly specific distance…?

        • Hi McKendree…..

          Just for “chutes and ladders”….my target area is at approximately at a “200” ft elevation above 5000.

          So maybe….could just the 200 ft portion be a hint to an elevation…or for me…maybe just another coincidence or aberration?

          I think you get my point…..*smiles*….

          Good luck.

          • Got your point. At least as likely (or unlikely) as looking halfway in between.

    • If you are using decimal degrees. One of the lat or longs does put you near a “load” in Colorado however the other doesn’t compute. Or I just haven’t spent enough time on it. Ironically or coincidentally that is one of my search areas. And my Brown is a famous native American.

      • I don’t necessarily look for lat/long as coordinates, decimal or otherwise.

      • Look at my other postings. I said it might not involve lat/long but some other form of coordinate system.

        • I guess you could even do a grid search. I have several quad sheets for Colorado but none of my new search area. Here in Oklahoma we use township range. I will look to see what the 4 states use. Generally speaking to things are measured off certain meridians which may have special meanings. I don’t think using different map projections would come into play considering the locations of the states. I know my deceased husband being a army ranger told me the old military uses grid systems. Some of the old surveys here used markers such as old trees before bench marks and to the rivers which move. Hence creating property disputes.aka red river TX and OK. Here there are correction lines that are in place to compensate for the curvature of the earth. I will look at what kind of systems such as metes and bounds those states use and get back with you.

  82. Might have been mentioned before, but was reading last night about Carla Brown (1800-1885), a former slave, who became wealthy later on and was famous in Colorado. Could her home be Home of Brown? Interesting to check out.

    • My very first generally terrible armchair-only solve used Clara Brown’s Central City home as the HoB.

      It was really fun researching Central City– what a cool ghost town. They had their own railway at one time.

      Like any Old West place, there are many names that enticed me to believe there must be a correlation with words in the book and poem; but in the end I decided to start over. I never went there and probably never will, but Central City is in my imagination forever.

    • I thought it will be ironic if the home of Brown turns out to be nothing more than an outhouse.

        • The HOB can still be an outhouse. It just that the treasure isn’t under it. I’ve read every word that was written about the Chase, but thanks anyway.

          • Is the hoB associated with the chest? Yes. Is the chest associated with the hoB? Yes. Since they are both associated with each other, and the chest is not associated with a structure, can the hoB be an outhouse? No.
            If you think it is, okay with me, another searcher taking themselves out of the search.

          • Charlie;

            What do you mean by “hoB associated with the chest?” They are both mentioned in the poem, but there is nothing in the poem that says that the chest is at or near hoB. So again, what do you mean by associated? Seems pretty weak to me. Just my mutterin’ JDA

          • JDA, I was just playing with Iceman. It does sound a little harsh, sorry Ice.
            JDA. do I really need to tell you to look up associated? oops, that sounds harsh, (in a whisper)- JDA, look up associated.:)
            Think I’m on edge, still at work.

          • Okay, splashed some water in my face, JDA, the clues are associated with the chest. (I never said that the chest was even at the hoB), the chest is associated with the clues. In as far as having a commonality. Thus, with the chest not being associated with a structure, so then are the clues not associated with a man made structure. Again, another way to see how f throws out obvious info with a “plausible deniability” backing. Afternoon or after noon JDA. :)lol. I don’t even have the hoB as a clue if that makes you feel better.
            Maybe we should go over to odds n ends and I can spark a topic of how the poem is actually just all hints, cannot solve all the clues with just the poem conversation. Two sides to everything, mirrors, mirrors, mirrors…

          • charlie def needs a holiday – tick
            JDA def needs to find that darn TC – tick
            Icemans thinks C.Brown is real – tick
            HoB is an ‘outhouse’ – ….

            ( ..ummm, don’t forget to pack ya chem-suit, Icemans – and a sturdy peg 🙂 )

          • I visited one of my solve areas and found an outhouse next to a cabin. Problem is said structure is on private land and unless this belongs to ff himself I’m not gonna go probing around either under or near the privy.

      • I think Fenn already said it is not in an outhouse or any other structure.

  83. Might the HOB be a mission? A Franciscan Friar is also known as a Brown Franciscan…

    • It might also be “No place for the meek”… especially if the native population is known for their revolts…

    • And what if that mission is conveniently located just above a small creek… whose end is drawing nigh…?

    • Mick –

      Sure could be and there are a lot of monks and monk type people in the search areas.

      Have you read about Hermit Peak yet?

      One of my favorites, not 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe though.

      Lugnutz

      • Thanks Lugnutz,

        Hermit Peak sounds like a cool hike. My solve is 8.25 miles north of Santa Fe.

        Remember all of those searchers that were talking about Oreos and the design on the cookie…? That cross-of-Lorraine symbol would fit well with a Brown Franciscan solve.

  84. Mick,
    Good observation.

    The Cross of Lorraine has also been more than a symbol, IMO.

    SL

    • Thanks SL,

      I don’t own any of FF’s books. But I enjoy reading about others discoveries/musings they’ve found in his books. I do notice the things that fit my solve, however. The Cross-of-Lorraine just happens to fit my solve. The double-Omega is another that fits in my solve.

      Have any of you been able to get BOTG lately?

      Mick

  85. Mick,

    I am not a BOTG searcher. Whatever someone might glean from any of my research; would be fine. (I remain thrilled to have become involved with TTOTC going on 3 years).

    Enjoy yourself, and best of luck. I will be happy to help out any way I am able!

    SL

    • Ah C’mon SL! BOTG is half the fun!

      What are your thoughts on a Double-Omega…? Could they be 2 canyons that come to an end…?

      • …and I’m still struggling with “the cold”. I think I read that the TC wasn’t in a mine or a cave. Is “the cold” water…? And if it were, wouldn’t water wash the TC away…? Seems it wouldn’t still be there in 100 years…

        • The colder it is, the more difficult the task. Speaking of Canasta, did you know that word anagrams to AS TACAN. Know what that is? Tacan?

          • My guess on TACAN:

            1.) A little yellow pill that helps with… well, you know…

            OR

            2.) A tactical air navigation system, commonly referred to by the acronym TACAN, is a navigation system used by military aircraft. It provides the user with bearing and distance (slant-range or hypotenuse) to a ground or ship-borne station.

            One of those two…

          • There’s more. It’s “Uncle Jew”. Remember him from a post on Jenny’s site?

            ###############################
            Uncle Jew => Uncled You
            ###############################

            That’s it! Forrest Fenn just “Uncled” somebody. This is BIG !!!!! Someone found the treasure location. He just uncled them. He’s giving up. They found it. Oh … to be politically correct … IMO.

  86. I am not going there but I remember someone searching near Leadville. Molly Brown being the Brown. I noticed that on the map their were huge electric lines near the Bulls-eye mine. South of town. Not very far. I was checking out the climax mine hence the end up where the Arkansas river begins but it is at 11000 ft too high. So anyway. Someone going that way might check it out.

      • Thanks. Mick. I am never going back there.I’ve traveled there before. The whole place is like one big superfund site. I remember The ice cream in the grocery stores were all exploded due to the altitude.

        • Huge electric lines and exploding ice cream… I think I’ll stay away from that location too!

          • As a fairly new person to this. Is there a place on this blog that shows the solves for Colorado? I knew Browns canyon had been searched although doesn’t mean it isn’t there. I am focusing on a line e/w south of buena vista e to Colorado springs all along the bordEr of new Mexico.

          • Amanda, look under “Other’s Adventures,” and you’ll find where others have been in Colorado.

        • I haven’t visited the Leadville area on my searches, but did consider it because of the association with Molly Brown. The first thing that struck me when I looked at maps of the area was the many old mines and placer tailings – not an especially pristine area and also one with a lot of private/patented lands off limits to treasure hunters. Wouldn’t go there as my first choice.

  87. Hi. Let me preface all of this with IMHO & IDK. Brown was one of the official survayours that surveyed the ST Fe Trail. He stayed some where in TAOS, however at this time Taos, as a town was located further east. and Taos as a “county area” included a small portion of what is now colorado (transfered in 1861). at this time New mexico (which can be made into the word Nine, ie the ninth hint) spanned great distances. However, if you take the Map of FF (which strangly looks like the original boundaries of the republic of texas) and overlay all items (boundaries of original new mexico ect ect… there is only one area that has comonolity to all and that is the farthest northeast corner of new mexico from about Taos (town on map) east, north or Mora, to south of the river in colorado now. coincidentially this area contains a majority of the cimiron trail … going further east of this area the cimmiron trail becomes known as an area of “Journey of the dead man”, if FF drove this trail traveling east ne, from his home in SFe he would have been essentially traveling and “extension of a Journey of a dead man”. Additionally, kit carson who was from this area among his lost items was a book that Kit Carson titled “memiors” the same title FF had selected as a book title.

    Being texican, this area would be both New Mexico and Texas to FF, and the land lines match in many places these land lines were marked by piling rocks and some times rock piles got piled on other rock piles numerous times.

    Brown facts : 1 he miscalculated a very important marker (lat line) making all of his calculations “off” on the map 2. for unknown reasons Brown did his surevy work with NOrth facing the DOWN portion of the page instead of the up portion of the page (they are inverted).

    TAOS was named for a military man from texas

    I have many other ideas and interesting things i have uncovered but will see how recieved and in advacen (FKU i know i cant spell).

    j

    • JDM,

      Interesting. Never heard of this dude. FYI Brown must have had a contemporary named F. X. Aubrey who was an entrepreneur freight hauler and trailblazer on the SF Trail. Look it up. He was more noted for the Cimarron Cutoff area east of Raton I believe.

      McKendree

  88. ooops forgot something. in this time, being a survayor was the equivilant of being a combination of explorer, warrior , westerner….. it was the equivilant of being harrison ford and rambo combined, men were knighted by kings and queens for the effort. It was the epitome of the outdoors frontiersman.

    • @JDM,

      You bring up some points… I have a degree in Surveying (from NMSU) and I find this info very interesting! … More later, after digesting the info!

      Thanks!

    • ****** Reap rote – “Does everyone know if Forrest has shown any interest in dinosaurs?” ******

      This is just my impression – I have a feeling that he takes a great deal of pride and pleasure in being one.

      JAKe

    • Thanks guys.

      Sorry for not replying sooner. Life.

      I was reading a book, Tyrannosaur Canyon, centered in the canyons just north of Santa Fe written by Forrest’s author buddy Douglas Preston, when it mentions a famous “Brown” that, as far as I can tell, no one has mentioned yet.

      Barnum Brown, a famous American paleontologist. He was commonly referred to as Mr. Bones. He discovered the first documented remains of a T-Rex making him one of the most famous fossil hunters of the early 20th century. Some of his most famous dig sites are in Montana and Wyoming.

      I chased his trail for a few weeks but nothing really solid developed for me, so I hope others will have better luck.

      Fair Warning: I am in Florida, so this is all research and Google maps.

      The best I put together was:

      Starting a Thermopolis, Wyoming (WWWH) going North, but downstream, along the Bighorn River (TTCD, it’s a stretch because it’s not much of a canyon) turning east at Greybull, WY, where Brown stayed while digging nearby (PIBHOB), to Shell, WY, a famous dinosaur dig site (NPFTM, ‘cause you know…there be dinosaurs around). But, because I can’t actually go there and the lack of info on the internet about this area, this is where I lose it and start to stretch it too far. There is a turnoff just south of Shell called Trapper Creek Road (maybe NPUYC) or get out and go upstream on Trapper Creek itself, and then… I can’t see the blaze from Florida.

      A lot of this area is below 5000’ anyways, so I honestly feel this is wrong and more for fun, but it was a good book, Barnum Brown was an extremely interesting person to research, and maybe some else can use Barnum in their own solve.

      I assume every “Brown” helps.

  89. According to Wikipedia, the color brown is composed of red, yellow, and black OR red, yellow, & blue using CMYK colors.

    Using RGB colors for TV screens and CPU monitors, brown is composed of red and green.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown

    Maybe this is barking up the wrong tree, but such facts would at least have some significance to an artist or an art enthusiast.

    • RGB and CMYK are mostly of use in the context of full-color printing presses and digital art.

      Painters in general are much more concerned with pigments than with color light theory. The most common pigment for browns in paint-making is the earth pigment PBr 7 (Permanent Brown # 7), though there are also several synthetics. Some of the most common names for brown paints might have some resonance:

      Van Dyke Brown
      Raw Umber and Burnt Umber
      Madder Brown
      Brown Ochre
      Bistre
      Sepia

      Painters using limited palettes (or to make more interesting-looking neutrals) will mix browns and grays from complementaries:

      red + green
      yellow + violet
      blue + orange

      . . . . which some may also find suggestive.

      I’ll mention too (though not in the context of brown) the spectrum of a rainbow – in order:

      red
      orange
      yellow
      green
      blue
      violet
      (and some add indigo here)

      JAKe

      • I think that Indigo goes between blue and violet – doesn’t it… not below violet. The old memory booster ROY G BIV – JDA

        • Quite right, JDA – good eye!

          In any case, indigo is not often included in the spectrum anymore, but ff certainly would have learned it with 7 colors, as you and I did.

          K

      • Thanks for sharing, JAKe. Good information that indicates a decent variety of forks to travel down in consideration of color combinations. Are we talking paint, pigment, light, printmaking, digital graphics? Who knows? Forrest has demonstrated some knowledge in art, printing, and science. There are certainly a lot of color names that show up in Rocky Mountain geography to wonder about.

        Now if you’ll excuse me, it is Friday evening and I’m going to open myself up a frosty can of PBR-7 to enjoy! 😉

  90. Cimarron—-Chez marron—-french for Brown house. Could it be that simple?
    I’m sure I’m not the first one to think of this but it seems just clever enough word play to be logical.

  91. My opinion is that Fenn’s capitalization of Brown indicates “home of Brown” refers to a name or place of some importance, not a place identified by the presence of trout, beat, beaver etc, and not a place identified by the color brown.

  92. When he says, “put in below the home of Brown”, most searchers I have talked to think it’s a readily visible place or thing, which then can be passed up before putting in. The poem paints a picture for us which makes us think we will drive down a dirt road in a canyon, then see the home of Brown, then go ahead and “put in”.

    2 things to consider:

    1) How far below the hoB till we put in? 200 feet, 1,000 feet, or 2 miles?
    2) If hoB is on an elevation, do we go past it, or put in right when we see it? After all, if it’s above us, we are below it.

    Being brave in the wood, no place for the meek and it’s a safe place for the family don’t all go together well. So I have a new theory: Maybe it’s down from the local wastewater treatment plant (hoB) in Thermopolis !!

    Don’t kill me please

    • I don’t think the actual “put in” spot is critical. If we have identified the correct “home of Brown”, the next step is to locate the creek, which should be very close by. And, “below” could mean a lower elevation, or it could mean south of.

      • I agree with your comments regarding “put in below the home of Brown”. I have not given up on my favorite solve to date, so I can’t divulge details at this point. However, I can say that my favorite hoB is located near a road which follows a canyon. It matches your description of a place which can be passed up, being on private land. I follow (drive) this road about 1.3 miles before “putting in” on another road which follows a creek on public land. This matches “put in below” because the put-in point is lower in elevation than the hoB.

        As to “being brave in the wood” and “no place for the meek” not jiving with “safe for the family”, I have also struggled with this myself. Possibly these poem lines are not literal and refer to abstract place or historical names. However (and here I am entering controversial territory) maybe the treasure location is not completely without risks of some sort. Is it reasonable that the treasure could be hidden in a location without access via back country roads, or some type of physical exertion involved (walking, climbing over rocks, or searching under bushes) ? This is not to mention bear encounters, which are rare but not to be ignored. So maybe the Thermopolis waste treatment plant is a “safe family place” as you humorously describe . But then so are many other picnic areas, scenic sites, hot springs, campgrounds, etc all safely within reach of the average persons car and therefore not likely as a secluded sanctuary for Fenn. There has to be some intermediate between truly dangerous ventures like the searchers who lost their lives and those who look in public parks or monuments.

        • Good thoughts. My hoB and its nearby creek are all on BLM land, and there is another stretch of creek I must search next time. There are many places where a wood exists, including pine and sage. My solve gets more complex in regard to directions, due to the water flow. I’m hooked now. All part of the TOTC.

        • I don’t think “brave” is an indication of any type of danger in getting to the treasure. As to what Forrest had in mind by including it in the poem, I’m not sure. But to me, it’s a restatement of an earlier clue. I equate “no place for the meek” to a place for the “brave”.

          • Yeah, right. I don’t think the “brave” reference is one of the nine clues in Fenn’s poem. But the statement that “If you are brave and in the wood” does suggest a location near the boundary between thick forest and open ground. Look up the definition of wood and you will find among other things “an area of land smaller than a forest, that is covered with growing trees”. Hmm…. Could this refer to an old fire burn area? Just wondering.

  93. I’m just a newbie here and still wading thru these endless threads, but more familiar with HOB than most (note my surname) – lol. If we accept Brown verbatim (few other choices) it might not be a direct proper noun such as Brown Trout or someone’s actual location (at some time) but merely…related…to either. In this context, a stream or fish hatchery with Brown Trout would be a direct relation vs a more indirect “contrived” relation such as HOB=Jackson/Hole Wyoming via Jackson Browne (where e syntax “error” is poetic fudge factor). We’re all sitting around scratching our heads for some type of direct relationship for HOB when it’s probably a fuzzy indirect relationship from a song or story akin Smokey the Brown Bear.

    • Keep thinkin’ and you just might find Indulgence – Welcome, and good luck to ya’ JDA

  94. This is so fascinating to me but being from the East not likely to visit the area any time soon, I have an idea about HOB. Having followed this periodically for the last couple years it became clear to me that HOB may be the key to solving. I have no inkling of the first two clues but this may help someone who does.
    I believe HOB refers to Molly Brown. Many have suggested this but we know the treasure lies above 5000 and below 10,200. Why 10,200 because the website for Leadville, Co says: “life at 10,200”. Leadville, of course being the original home of Molly Brown. So we are being pointed directly at Molly Brown and Mr. F does not act on coincidence.
    But we are not being directed to anyone’s specific home. I believe we are being directed to the elevation of that home. In this case the one in Denver because it makes no sense to think the one in Leadville. So in my mind once you have the first two clues you are looking for a place with an elevation less than 5300′ to look for non-navigable creek with a waterfall. Just my thought!

  95. Haven’t had a chance to read through all of the posts on home of Brown, but just throwing out there that my latest interpretation is that “Brown” is the US for service, and the home of Brown is a forest service campground. (A campground is a home away from home )

    Stumbled across this information after seeing a brown campground sign and looking up “U.S. forest service brown”

    Found an amazing amount of information about how the US government has specific colors for all of the different objects they paint; like 640!

    And it just so happens that number 20059 is called “Forest Service Standard Brown” with a capital “B”.
    Have fun with this!

    • couldn’t leave you hanging Camille, as i think your research is laterally refreshing and your instincts warm (re: a nearby camp-ground)

      if i wished to have an un-edited imagination, i’d imagine that Forrests hidden-place was one discovered in his early years, when his guide-skills were fulfilled, and time was on his hands to explore the beckoning niches of nature, while his clients fished peacefully.

      i’m almost brave enough to imagine that the closest hub of civilisation (to his/Her favourite spot) was indeed a camp-ground, where a river meets a creek and a trail inevitably ensues – not in “close proximity” ..but within eye-shot maybe

      ( ..and close to a 10200ft mountain would be handy too 🙂 )

      • Thank you for responding curious hobbit!

        Your words “a camp-ground, where a river meets a creek and a trail inevitably ensues – not in “close proximity” ..but within eye-shot maybe” is just where I am searching.

        Great minds obviously think alike!

  96. I was looking at the Collegiate Peaks, considering Mr. Fenn mentioned his lack of a college education a few times in the book (I’m sure that I am NOT the first one to think of this), and noticed that MT Harvard, MT Yale, and MT Princeton are in the same order from North to South as the Universities that they are named after. Brown University is between Harvard and Yale. I am wondering if “below the home of Brown” could possibly mean the MT Yale area.

    • rwe,
      Brown University has been mentioned before… But I’m not sure there was a connection with Harvard and Yale and Princeton mentioned. I’d like to know how you got from wwwh to here… just a curiosity [ I’m not big on names referring to clues directly ] Yet, I’m not sure I disagree with the geographical area… The big picture? Higher knowledge? It would be funny if so. lol ~ heavy loads of information / knowledge…
      You peaked my interest, pun intended.

      • Mt Princeton and Cottonwood hotsprings are both in the valley (not sure if that was his wwwh)…as for the mountains…looking at topo maps suggests much of the peaks/upper reaches are well above 10,000′, not saying these are in/out just that hiking here is difficult and strenuous with few trails/roads. Put in below HOB…there are a couple peaks on the map that are south/down/below, but seems like a reach as the next clues don’t seem obvious unless put in is literal to the Arkansas river, and even then I’d say unlikely since A) that river can be quite dangerous and B) lots of creeks/easily taken wrong paths…not saying no, just no for me, all IMO.

      • Seeker,
        It may be a stretch, I was kicking around the idea of Twin Lakes being WWWH. Warm could be another way of saying affectionate as in (brotherly love -> twins?). lakes can be considered halting as the water comes down the mountains and fill the basins.

        Take it in the Canyon Down:
        I started to follow rt 24 South from Twin Lakes(on a map) and noticed that the mountains to the West were labeled “Collegiate Peaks”. I found this to be interesting because in Mr. Fenn’s book and in a few interviews that I have seen, he seems to make a big deal out of not having a college education and seeming to be a little resentful to those who were college educated. What I find odd is, Mr. Fenn doesn’t strike me as the person who would have sour grapes or resentment towards someone for having something that he doesn’t. Especially when he has outperformed most of his peers (if not all) who have had a formal educations. With that being said, I started thinking that maybe Mr. Fenn was trying to tell us something. Which got me to thinking about what I said above in my prior post. To make it even more interesting, There was a well known prospector named John Brown who owned a majority of the mining claims just West of MT Yale.

        The above thought process is more of an investigation into a series of coincidences than it is a solve. Just doing mental acrobatics i guess.

  97. These statements are solely my personal opinion:

    1) Home of Brown is the most important clue in the poem.
    2) It is NOT a home of anyone named Brown.
    3) There is a good reason why it is capitalized.

    • of course we saw them coming….and having no natural enemies, were not afraid. what we perceived to be large floating brown nests were actually ships. carefully constructed of hewn logs. and then they launched smaller brown nests to come ashore. it was quite interesting at first, these creatures had no wings. no claws. they didnt growl nor bark. no large teeth nor fur nor anything about them that would cause concern. so we did not panic. to our peaceful island we called home, they posed no threat whatsoever. turns out we were wrong. so i put on my tuxedo and escaped to antarctica to mingle amongst penguins in hiding. there i remained and accompanied Admiral Byrd on an expedition to the south pole. it was there i suffered severe frostbite and lost both my feet. now disabled and confined to a wheelchair i live comfortably in wyoming and seeking Forrest Fenn’s treasure.

        • Maybe it’s such a big clue, that he has never said it is a clue. Maybe instead of a searcher putting in below the home of Brown, could he have been saying, “I put it in below the home of Brown”? Either way, it’s a big location clue or a monster hint. What say you?

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