310 thoughts on “The Hidey Space…

  1. In a cave with Indian artifacts, goose feathers, and pine needles on the floor and a ray of sunlight shooting in.

      • Caves and mines are two completely different things. Caves are natural features and mines are man made, Fenn has never ruled out caves, just mines.

          • I wish I listen better.
            Sounds like caves & mines are out.
            I’m going to crawl in mine now.

          • Dal – did you find that in my quotes document or just know that off the top of your head? f has also reportedly told someone to stay out of Grizzly bear caves too… an even more immediate threat of danger. 🙂

          • JCM-
            Are you kidding?
            No way I could recall that or anything else Forrest has said or written without your incredible tool..
            That document is a “must have” for someone who is looking for the chest and has no idea about all the clues and hints Forrest has given us over the years…
            If anyone wants to get one of JCM’s valuable “Chasing Words” tools…look here:

    • oh, stop being such a big worry-wort Ken – i’m safely standing in a cave as we speak, and there’s certainly no evident danger of..

      ..oh wait!? ..is that ..is that an earthquak[-end of transmission-]

  2. It will be one of those great moments…..when you think to yourself….why didn’t I think of that????!!!!!!!

  3. JDA you stated; ”Begin the journey or quest where warm waters halt and take the journey or quest in the canyon down”…(Interp.) The only to take the journey or quest is if YOU (The searcher) make that trip, journey or quest…So yes, to ME the poem DOES say that I have to make that trip.”

    I came back with an interview from fenn;
    Q~ Who else knows where the treasure is buried?
    A~ I never said it was buried. I’ve avoided that word. I hid it. I don’t mean to imply that it isn’t buried. I just didn’t want to give that as a clue. It took me two trips in my car to hide the treasure. And I can tell you an 80-year-old man is not going to make a trip into a canyon, then come up and go down again. As for who else knows, I’m the only one. My wife doesn’t know.

    You came back with; I said you have to take a short hike from the end – I said nothing about going down a canyon – your quote disproves nothing.

    Do you actually read your own postings?
    Wasn’t it you that blogged fenn is secretly sending you messages and using the blog for fair play?
    Yet when an interview is posted from fenn that gives pause and thought about an actual traveling down a canyon.. you say; “your quote disproves nothing”

    Well Bud, it’s not my quote… it was stated by fenn. Maybe ya heard of him… he wrote a book and placed a poem in it and challenged all to decipher the clues that will lead to the desired reward.

  4. Forgive me if this sounds condescending, but do you ever plan to search the Rockies in person for the chest at some point? Just curious.

    • randawg,
      I assume your asking me the question…
      If and when I understand the poem in full, then I’ll make up my mind.
      I’m not the type to put the carriage before the horse..or waste time on hunches and feelings. I would think by now folks would get the sense of what fenn has talked about… nail down the first clue or stay home… In theory, all the clues can be understood prior… certainty beforehand of the path… Many, several, searchers have told fenn where they have been [ correct location ], their process [clues] and yet they didn’t know they had mentioned or indicated the correct clues… even as many the first four clues, and still those folks may not know [ per fenn’s comment ]

      I’m in no hurry… and I certainly don’t need an excuse to go anywhere.

      • A chest full of gold is good enough reason for me. I hope you will eventually fully understand the poem and nail down the first clue. Good luck to you and thank you for your response.

        • I’m glad you mentioned that randawg. It’s not the lure of shiny metals and trinkets or even the value… it’s the challenge itself.
          If that was a chest full of marbles, no one would be here ratchet jawing about the challenge.

          Hook, line and sinker. And that is the reason for being patient. Other’s have created family problems, some spend for than the can or should, some borrow money [because then have none left to search] or mortgage their home just to go search for The Gold.
          Was that really the intent?

          • IMO

            There are a lot of folks who have
            located the first clue and passed right over it.
            ” Shinny things distract even the brightest of minds”
            by : Steven Hawkings .
            But did I need to hear it from him to understand that . NOPE knew it since I was a kid. When I learned how to sell candy in school . Candy was shinny to all who came near my bag of sweets. I knew it and did well in school at lunch . Most want junk instead if the milk and such I was able to buy.
            It just seems to me everyone knows all the answers all the time and anyone who begins don’t. I hate to say this but I disagree with full throttle in this . New eyes are whats needed to find the chest .
            I dint say that Forrest Fenn did .
            But also I find it shocking that a lot of folks don’t even see the stuff for what it is .
            Like do you or all of you agree that
            ” What good are your friends if you cant use them ?” And also You only need to pleaser yourself? If you do then you I think missed the point. The point is I do not use my friends , they would never allow it , And if I only pleased my self then I am selfish .
            According to Forrest Shakespeare
            insinuated to him the fact that ” We are all hear for the pleasure of others , some of us are a bit more blessed , but we all take our turn on the stage of life, and Mr. Fenn chose not to waste his turn .
            Maybe it was the secret he heard when he thought he was going to pass away . What secret you ask ? Watch Indiana Jones . Funny the timing of those movies vs Forrests life.
            In TTOTC Fenn has a preface and important information . He said his life was the exact life of Holden in the Catcher . Well What Catcher ? He didn’t list the book correctly there . And What JD since he was also miss stated in the preface. His name Is J.D. Salinger . Not J.D. – or the way stated in the Preface (JD) with not periods to mark the J.D. …
            Well who can imagine a coincidence like that , well I can . So I did , and mirrored the book to total . He was not kidding about that . Thing is I thought I would write that book , not Forrest .
            I will leave you with this.
            Forrest said ” I have a hold card if I ever want to go back and get it . Well a hold card is a credit card , but even more important is having a hold card means your holden , and Holden is the main person in the Catcher . So , well Fenn said it was time to act. So my op is he is Holden .
            In 2009 J.D. Salinger sewed a man who wanted to write a book as Holden being a 80- year old man . Well Salinger won and the book publication was stopped . It was published in England , or atlas in Europe .
            One more key fact to say .
            The little lady in TTOTC when Fenn was at the book store and as soon as Forrest
            approached the counter she raised her cup. I think I nay be the only one who see’s this but, She was rude! For one
            when a guest approaches you with merchandise you say ” Hi , Iu found everything ok . Which title did you choose? Awesome , may I ask why you chose it? Well my Name is Mike and let me be the first to tell you that was a excellent choice . Is there another book you may want to read and how may I assist you in finding it . I can put a hold on it when it is in stock and I can call you when it is available. Okay , may I have your phone number ? And what was your name ——- Glad to have met you Seeker , I will let you know as soon as It arrives. ======
            That is how you speak to a person approaching your register , not raise your cup to make a old man wait. She walked him to the center of the store , and left him there walked away like she had graduated from some good school . Well people who come from Yale or Harvard
            do not work in book, coffee stores , Soi she making six-buk fifty a hour surely didn’t come from some great school .

            So Do I agree with f
            of course I do . Thats why I wrote this today ., I don’t come on here often , Well I don’t like arguing with folks . I see a lot of people shooting down others at times.
            I would encourage you to please them . Help them in there search , you and I know why all of us are seeking . So please them and help them out. Dont turn away the least of knowledge. Remember it is worth knowing all the things it is not worth knowing .

            Bless you all and keep seeking .
            You will find it.

          • Hi Seeker……just re-reading some old posts and saw yours……

            In many ways I agree with you…..don’t go seeking if you don’t know where to go. Logic tells me not to.

            I also agree, if this was a box of marbles (depends upon the marbles – LOL) that no one would be jawing away. But ’tis not, huh.

            I can truthfully say, I have not spent above my means, my family’s means, or anything like that.

            In fact, I seem to be like you….cautious in my approach, and only willing to take a trip into the unknown if I have something “solid” I can work with.

            You will also notice, I have pretty much stopped posting my thoughts…..because I now think that whatever I say, could lead another to where I intend to go…..and believe me….I just don’t trust anyone anymore…..*winks*…..you guys are all evil!!

            JUST KIDDING…..sheez!!

            You aren’t evil…..because I am!!


            Anyhow….good luck to you and your endeavor.

  5. When I try to “visualize” where the Trove is located, I feel like I’m inbetween something and space is dark and limited like a tight Cleft of Rocks, or actually in the wood-like in a tree. Feeling that general area surrounded by a gathering or circle of trees, but high enough to have a view of two mountain peaks. From my viewing spot, I’m am looking West, and can see the sun melt deep into the ravine between the two peaks like liquid gold.

  6. I think indulgence is hidden between two rocks with another covering her face. Not buried in the ground but well protected from sight. Should be easy to find after finding the blaze. Waiting for most of the snow to melt and then I’m off to the paradise where she patiently waits.

  7. somewhere north of santa fe in the rocky mountains,somewhere can be anywhere. the rocky mountains are divided into different parts.but they all are still the rocky mountains,and all the forest starts from one end and goes to the other end and vice versa. so forrest hid the treasure in a forest.so what is so special about this special place he hid it,in the forest.we don’t know,his dad knew.read the book,read the poem many times,looked at map many times,They are tales about his childhood,mom,dad,june,skippy,friends,getting married to peggy jean,vietnam war.he thinks ,is this all there is , people die and another takes their place,then he says we are here to help other people,smile at them ,say hello,etc,at least you know you have done your part in this life to try to make someone happy.he is called mr. lucky,shot down in vietnam two times.by his buddies.struggles,but he does it ,makes a good life for his family,meets all kinds of people,goes on adventures,a warrior needs some space sometime.written books ,did all kinds of stuff,sold san larazso,retired from gallery.still has his publishing company.miracle cure from cancer.he’s been everywhere ,I can keep my secret where, can keep my tale home,keep my tell homekeep my story in my mind.did he fall asleep and have those kind of dreams where you are actually in the dream and living it,and feeling it,and doing those things,talking,hearing,and then you wake up.forrest fenn is huck finn, the enchanted forrest.in my chest is my heart ,in my heart is my treasure.

  8. I don’t see it buried under dirt. I see it as hidden in an alcove or crevice and perhaps covered with a slab. Just IMHO.

    • i give you title to the “gold…”

      Remember: butterfly and flutterby

      Gold could be hint/clue

      Gold = g o l d = old log

      • Possibly. The last scrapbook 172 certainly points to a steam engine line or something being apart of the poem. I think the poem is pretty straight forward and doesn’t require anagrams but acts more like a riddle. Also fenn seems to have chosen a girl. Could be you. He has stated in mysterious writings that a “she” will be pleased when SHE sees it. Stay positive and keep on keeping on. Good luck to you.

        • Thanks Jsmes for the vote of encouragement!

          I’ve spent at least four hours a day reading, researching and note taking…found I’m not great at keeping track of my notes…trying to be better now. And memory sometimes is fleeting!

          I go in on Tuesday, April 11 for surgery to remove a chunk of my back due to my lucky mole! Melanoma runs in my family on both sides! Lucky me!

          I am considered a “difficult” patient. Not that I do not co-operate, because I do. My body is what gives the Anesthesiologist the problem. I am considered difficult to intubate. My trechia is anatomically incorrect. Too high and too anterior. Took 2 1/2 hours to intubate two years ago. Guess things got ugly. Glad I don’t remember any of it. However, because of this, I am opting to do surgery with local anesthesia for the 2 1/2″x2″x 1cm deep tissue removal. I’m trying to be BRAVE! Hope things go smoothly and that they do not have to change to general sedation.

          I am boxing all my notes that fill a 1 1/2″ notebook, 2 large very new Recreational maps of the two states I had originally narrowed it down to due to the pinyon nuts, and Fenns two books, TTOTC and TFTW just in case something crazy happens so these can be sent to my brother who I hope will become as interested in the Thrill Of The Chase as I have been!

          Hoping to be back into the Chase Wednesday April 12!

          Talk with y’all then!

          I am a problem patient. Not that I’m not good or cooperative, but

          • I hope all goes well Sheryl Lynn…. my prayers are with ya…. see ya back on Tuesday … have a great day… until next time… see ya

          • Sheryl, I didn’t see your message until
            7/30/17. I hope your surgery went well.
            And good luck in your solving and
            searching for Fenn’s trove. IMO.

        • luck on tuesday Sheryl

          i once had surgery under local anaesthetic and assumed that i’d be weirded-out by the whole thing, but it was actually surprisingly quick and easy

          you’ll be fine 🙂

  9. To me the hidey space is located where the “no paddle up your creek” creek disappears in the vacinity of the blaze. The creek shows itself above the blaze about 50′ then again below the blaze about 100′. So after trying to figure the blaze (I have three options) and now I believe I have the right option (Forrest gave that hint in the beginning of his postings on HOD) I believe his trove is hidden under a rock formation that he created in that area where the creek disappears. The reason is, in this area the creek had washed out all the sand and loose particules from around the rocks in it’s once creek bed, and now the creek flows under these rocks. So what better way to disguise the trove location so that any passer by following the animal trail would not notice ” indulgence” location, only someone familiar with the chase and what the blaze could be would notice the unusual rock formation stacked below the blaze amongst the other rocks. To me this is why Forrest doesn’t expect anyone to find it in a afternoon because if you don’t understand the correct blaze (again there are three that fit it’s profile) you will be there awhile looking around and below those possibilities. Of course this is just my idea but it might be some good food for thought. Only time will tell and I believe I have plenty of it as long as I don’t “get hit by a train” LOL. Good luck everyone Bur

    • Dave I think that ff has repeatedly stated that he has not been back and that he wouldn’t go back because someone might follow him. That doesn’t mean that it is or isn’t close to his home (8.25 is close in my book). IMO of course.

      • Jim & digit one,
        There are many that like this area & I think we are right.
        I will go further & say it may be in Madison County.

        • I doubt it’s in Montana. He said he hid it in one afternoon. Its possible he made a special trip up there and then hid it in one afternoon. Basically you are saying that you live in Montana and have provided a solution that is close to your home. It reminds me of a story after I came out as transgender. I decided to tell this gentle man I was seeing and he pretended to accept it. When push came to shove he decided he didn’t like me though he tried to force it in his mind that he did. Either way I could be wrong. Stay positive and keep on doing it right. Peace my friend

          • If memory serves me correctly, F said he hid it in a day, wife didn’t know, and read that he hid it during a trip/Visit to Cody, WY.

            Don’t ask me for notes… didn’t keep good ones to go back to…

          • Sheryl;

            Seems as though your memory is fading a bit. Forrest DID say that he hid it in one afternoon. The rest of your post, not so sure about. He MAY have said that his wife did not know, but not at the same time he said he hid it in one afternoon. I do not believe that he EVER said anything about a trip to Cody – or anywhere else. If he had, ALL searchers would be searching Wyoming. The states population would then double. JDA

          • JDA I’m not trying to be misleading.

            I read somewhere…note taking has been horrible I am finding…He had to go to Cody fo do something with managing?the BBC Museum.

            This is something that I’ve been trying to wrap my brain around-F placing TC during a trip to Cody as been one that has worried/concerned me and stuck in my craw, as I had my #1 spot in NM.

            How did he do it during trip to Cody?

            Figuring his wife, Peggy didn’t know, when he did this:

            1: Peggy must not have seen him pack his trove and leave home to do this, nor was she with him. If he did this before they left for trip, why begin a road trip at night after a busy day?

            2. Certainly if she was with him he couldn’t stop on side of road and say, “Give me a few minutes here sweetpea” and come back again and repeat.

            3. Then figuring Peggy went with him on trip to Cody, she must not have seen what he packed for the trip here either. And what was she doing during the time he disappears to do the deed?

            I am learning to keep better notes and write reference in margins of my notes.

            I’ve tried going back to read things in my history on my phone many times.

          • He never said Cody. Several searchers surmised that would be an easy way to sneak away.. But think about this. The Fenn’s regularly took trips apart from each other. Forrest to visit his father, and Peggy to visit her family. Forrest has family in Montana. It wouldn’t be much for him to drive to Montana to see his family (when his wife was elsewhere), and take half a day detour, or to go out on his own for half a day. Also, he never said he did it in half a day, or in a day. He mentioned that he had made two trips (presumably from his car) to the hidey space in one afternoon. If he drove to Montana, made several detours, checked out some of his favorite places, visited family, deposited the treasure, and drove back… I guess you could say it took him a week or more to hide it. All IMO of course, but don’t let his comments lead you to false assumptions to discount anywhere he hasn’t ruled out.

          • If I find the statement I seem to be remembing, I will post with link to it. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

          • James,
            I really don’t care what your orientation or sex is.
            What matters most to me is what kind of person you are & how you treat others.
            Compassion is my key word.

  10. I think it is under a big wooden W.

    The meadowlark are singing, the smell of onions are in the air and calves are hitting the ground so I can’t search for at least a month.

    Hope to stop by the Guadalupe Cafe on my way to have a turkey sandwich on sour dough with jalapeño cheese soup.

    • That’s interesting Michael. On my last trip to NM I found a Medicine Wheel configuration of stones, not in close proximity to a trail. Based on how deep the rocks had sunken into the surface soil, I thought it was maybe 15-20 years old, perhaps older. I may go take another look at that.

          • To go in peace, (Urban Dictionary) could mean:

            “to leave without harm or harming”

            “to leave with the spirit of God”

            “To egret with safety and peace of mind”

            Catholic saying (Loyola Press.com) says to go in peace “is an incredible challenge”

  11. General area or exact coordinate???
    Forrest has encouraged us, for obvious and safety reasons, not to venture out into the mountains during the winter with snow still on the ground. But he has also stated, “If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather.”
    So, with that, how could someone retrieve it during the winter if they believed it is in a stream? Wouldn’t it be frozen in ice? And even if it was there, they would have to have an EXACT coordinate unless they wanted to attempt breaking up a large amount of ice on that stream.
    And the same holds true if someone believes it is located in a general area such as in a meadow or somewhere around a lake. How could you retrieve it at any of those locations if it is covered by a couple feet of snow?
    “If you know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather.”
    And from Forrest’s own website: ” If you are searching for Forrest’s treasure please stay safe, take adequate supplies and a GPS.”
    Why bring a GPS if not for pinpointing the EXACT spot? For safety reasons? Yes, I’m sure. But I believe it is to serve another purpose than just that.
    All IMO.
    Good luck all.

    • A lot of people searching are city folks or folks who have never learned to mark or blaze a trail on their way in – in order to find their way on their way back out to their car ..

      In heavily wooded or unfamiliar terrain – especially if the sun is hidden behind clouds or the terrain is bland and uniform and kind of looks the same in all directions – it is very easy to get turned a wrong direction without realizing it — and get lost .. unless you have a specific point of reference that you aim for, and keep in sight of, most people wander left or right and end up walking 15 or 30 or even 45 degrees off-course without even knowing it ..

      When I hike in new territory and there isn’t a clear trail scratched in the ground, I stop every few hundred feet and establish visual clues that allow me to see not the only the visual markers where I just left from .. my car, a large rock, a pond, a unique tree .. but also a visual marker toward where I want to go .. kind of like connect the dots — if there aren’t any that stick out, I leave a cairn of rocks or a stack of sticks that I can easily find and usually with a direction pointer – just in case I can’t see my previous marker for some reason .. and in 35 years of hiking I’ve only gotten truly lost once, which took me about an Hour to figure where I made my mistake ..

      Most people probably don’t know how to leave a trail marker or take the time to think of doing it as they walk along and so a GPS Marker at their car, saved on their GPS Machine before they leave, is probably the best chance not to get lost ..

      And if you think you can’t get lost on a marked trail – I’ve rescued several people on heavily trafficked, clearly marked “easy” trails who got turned around, started hiking the wrong direction, got confused, couldn’t figure out the signs, ran out of water, or were just too much out of energy to walk another foot — and couldn’t get back to their car ..

      Take your time. Look around. Relax. Hydrate often. Memorize unique articles of Nature that stand out and that you’ll Recognize Later. Leave Markers if you have to. Keep your spatial orientation in check. Always know the way back — even of you have to stop and backtrack the way you just came in order to get your orientation confirmed .. Always. Always. Always. Keep a Spider’s Thread tied to your car’s bumper – metaphorically of course ..


      • Great tips Brad.

        I, very city bred, suggest yellow or orange plastic strips that can be tied to low tree branches or bushes – at eye level…..for some easier movements off the main trail.

    • He has also said “If you had it’s coordinates, you would be able to find the treasure”.
      So, we must be looking for it’s coordinates. Which means numbers in the poem, which means number system.

      • No it doesn’t.

        You are “guessing” that there is…..without any evidence…it is just speculation and you will have to work through a solve…..with “coordinates”.

        I don’t think that information is embedded….although it could be…..I just don’t see it occurring..

        Good luck!

        • why else would he say that? Why did he pick that one spot, and not 50′ away? What will stand the test of time? What will be around 100, 1000 years from now? Coordinates. So, yes it does. It’s not a guess if he has mentioned it. If he never stated that FACT, then me saying coordinates would be a guess. That is not the case. Hopefully you have one solve that has coordinates, if not, I hope you have at least a great vacation.

          • “why else would he say that?”

            Various reasons.

            – to through the searchers off – Fennology
            – a road could be 200 feet away fromthe spot, and not one of us would ever know that the chest was there….as we drove past it “within 200 ft.”….OR….drove past it “within 500 ft.”

            “What will stand the test of time?” / “What will be around 100, 1000 years from now?”
            – Mother Earth
            – a road will always be a road, once it was made…..it could also become overgrown with foliage to block the details it was a road.
            – The Mayan culture in Mexico and Central America existed many thousands of years ago….and their roads have been uncovered.

            “It’s not a guess if he has mentioned it.”
            – It hasn’t been determined that it is not a guess. And just because he said it, do you have something that FF stated that verifies it is not a guess? Or are you just “guessing” too?

            “If he never stated that FACT, then me saying coordinates would be a guess. ”
            – He did state that one does not need a cipher. It appears that you are looking for a cipher. SO IMO – you are trying to force fit the clues into a cipher.

            “Hopefully you have one solve that has coordinates,”
            – I don’t.
            – Yup – it will be a great vacation…thank you for your encouragement.

            Good luck to you.

          • He has also said that it would be harder to find in 1,000 years because geography changes. If that’s the case, then coordinates ARE NOT important.

            “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.” f

        • Hi Tim ,

          Tim =)
          Hope to touch some base with you on this one .
          In TFTW last page is the map . In which he cut off the other States in clouded in the Chase before. But more importantly Mr. Fenn quoted:
          ” I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand , but sure for the one who did.”

          SO , Directly Sure for the one’s path with certainty of the location beforehand =)
          Just throwing that out there.

          Ps. Mr. Fenn quoted
          “A dare went out to everyone who possessed a sense of wanderlust ; study the clues in the book and thread a tract through the wiles of nature and circumstances the treasure”

          Just some quotes raining bells in my mind is all .

          • @ Mr.D and Heather
            Hey “D & H” How goes the search? :o) Hopefully forward with a bunch of smiles!


            “Hope to touch some base with you on this one .:
            – Lay it on me friend….

            “In TFTW last page is the map . In which he cut off the other States in clouded in the Chase before. But more importantly Mr. Fenn quoted:
            ” I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand , but sure for the one who did.””
            – I don’t own TFTW – so I am not sure what it says, but I do believe FF has said a similar statement in the past. My not be the exact words above, but similar meaning.
            – IMO – I have checks and balances throughout my solve. I think I can move with confidence this time. Is that bragging? No, it is trying to be very positive in my thinking. :o) I can always accept failure…..so that isn’t a problem with me…..but to accept a loss of $1000.00….that may be more of an impact, even if it was a fun time. Is $1000.00 worth enough fun to go and find a hidden treasure chest? SURE IS !! :oP

            So in honesty – I hear ya very good.

            Am I confident enough to make the next move? Yes.

            Is my wife on board? Yeah, I think she is, but she is always supportive of me as I am of her.

            Do I have a date set to go and look? Yep….just decided upon it today…..I will forego a trip to San Diego’s International Comic-Con 2017 (tix go on sale 04/08/17 @ 8am if you are registered already) this year in July to go do a search in June.

            Will I be successful? This time, with three main clues I think I deciphered correctly, yeah….let me end this misery for everyone.

            Will I come back with “my tail between my legs”? I’m not too proud to own my fail….and will respond accordingly…..eating crow if need be….*smiles*…

            “Be the chest and keep it unsophisticated.” – Tim

            GL “D&H” – thanks for the post.

      • Charlie,
        I’m going out on a limb here and say the comment is rhetorical.

        The same as if you knew exactly where it is a metal detector will help, or if you know exactly where it is you can retrieve it in any weather. Every location has coordinates…So if you “knew”…

        • “Rhetorical”….that was the word I was looking for.

          Fen says many things that are so vague, yet true….”coordinates” is a great example.

          Anywhere you travel in the world has coordinates.

          One needs to know that the limitations that Fenn puts upon us, are not limitations at all……it is just his way of saying something to keep the chase active and fun for himself……well….of course it will be this way, until he dies.

          Then we won’t be hearing anymore from FF at all.

          Sure – take his words and fiddle around with them….just “don’t mess with my poem”…..we already know there is a treasure waiting at the end of one thing he said.

          • rhetorical I can see if he says it that way. But, he never said rhetorically speaking. He said coordinates. If he said rhetorically speaking, well duh, of course one could go there if they had the coordinates. So, how do we get the coordinates? Has nothing to do with codes and cyphers Tim. I think you should read that comment carefully. Would you be happy with a positive solve? I would. But, I’m not saying that. Just like little Indy can’t get past the 3rd clue, just like the first clue may have something to do with being “nailed down”, just like if we had the coordinates. If we just pick and choose what to credit or discredit, then that is guessing. All I’m saying is that it is best to not discredit what he says, however you interpret it. Since he said something about having coordinates and finding the chest in the same sentence, wouldn’t it be wise to not discredit coordinates. If you do, then a nice vacation is in your future, but possibly not the chest. He said it, best if you found out a possible reason why. If you don’t see it, or you don’t have a solve with coordinates, wouldn’t it be wise to have one.
            Tim, you can’t position your point by saying It’s a guess and then “throw” your guesses back.
            Fact, he said it. Could be rhetorical, so I can get with what Seeker has added, but it also could not be. So, all I’m saying is to cover your bases. No guessing, no defining what I think, just noting that it be best to have both sides instead of one. It’s hard to be confident without coordinates, but possible. Hard to be confident without numbers somewhere.

          • Let’s summarize your post….
            “Hard to be confident without numbers somewhere.”

            Not entirely true.

            I achieved a solve without numbers, and instead I used natural geology, geography, and history, in order to come to a result.

            I also have “coordinates” of a spot, but did not come from analyzing the poem of some numeric feature, but through following clues on the poem.

            Although I remember reading someone’s post that they found the number “44” hidden in the poem somewhere. Peculiar and interesting as it sounds, I think the poster also mentioned that YNP lies on that latitude.

            You may want to talk with that guy if you think your theory is valid.

            So you may be onto something, but I’m just not in that camp.

          • Charlie,
            I still don’t dismiss the possibility of coordinates. What I don’t think is, they involve the exact location of the chest… It might be more toward knowing where to begin, line of thinking.

            You might say, well seeker folks have been there, right? Ok, but whatif that coordinate location needs to be known for something else later in the poem?
            [you might recall my one theory]

            fenn has also said;
            “I’ve said things people think are clues.”
            My point, how many solves have you heard revolving around a flash light and a sandwich, and recently Dal posted a Q&A with an interviewer and fenn stated they are certainty not clues.
            Or the metal detector comment vs, the no tools comment. Or hints in the “text” of the book.
            Do we really think gloves will “solve” the poem as some have suggested?

            It’s not so much “picking and choosing” and more toward common sense…
            “…I am determined to stay aloof of providing any additional clues that are useful. Everyone has the same information to work with.”
            Remember the useless clues debate…

            My take is “the same information” to mean from the very start… we need to step lightly on the after the fact as to how useful they could or could not be to solving the poem vs. useful to help make us think.

            Just my thoughts.

          • Seeker, I hear what you’re saying. It is just very hard to discount or not put too much weight into his after comments when you have so many of them in common with a solve. That goes for everyone, me included. I use to think all I needed was the poem, but those after comments sure do bring up one’s confidence.
            You are right though, they are comments after the fact and no matter their importance, they are outside the poem. I’ll yield to that thought. do they help one solve the poem? I don’t think so. Do they offer anything? Well yes. Your Idea a while back proves that. At least to me and the way I see the poem. To think you may have found a somewhat map to the bells is big considering, and if it pans out. Again, the way I see the whole big picture. If I was to bring up a bell, that’s huge in determining how f approaches things. So, along those lines, I have to consider all he has said after the fact. I don’t go with all, but some things need to be answered. The first clue, place that is “dear”, bighorn ring a bell, and coordinates, put in the category of why a flutterby is a butterfly.
            I know you have a coordinate solve, it’s just smart. My initial thought on it was to not discount that. For someone to just discount it or can’t see it, well I’m sorry, and like we have said before, there may just be more ways to solve this puzzle. To just up and say, “it’s not there, foolish, don’t see it”, is just someone stuck on one thought. And, I just hope they have a fun vacation…:)

          • Well shoot, if I knew the coordinates for Madison Junction Campground I could just go right to it, but I do know, if you start from Old Faithful and travel 191 to the North-Northwest, then below firehole falls, follow the river in the canyon down to where the Firehole merges with the gibbon… Then you could cross the Gibbon and get to the Madison Campground.

            (IMO) “Coordinates” is not a clue… Obviously if you know precisely within 3 meters GPS accuracy where something is, you could go right to it and get it. That doesn’t mean hes done anything to tell you what those coordinates were/

          • Very much so Sheryl. But if I’m right, its the pine sap you’re smelling. There’s nothing quite like being in a nice shaded pine forest in the middle of the hot summer 😛

    • FF said “weather”, not “season”. Look them both up in the
      dictionary. I could be hiking on ground with no snow on it.
      If it starts to snow, and I’m 50 feet from my destination, I’m
      not likely to turn back because of that WEATHER.

      If I’m hiking on a sunny day, through snow that is 2 feet deep, I won’t find the TC at that time.

      FF has said that he hid the TC during the summer. I
      suggest you restrict your BOTG searching to the months
      of May through October of any given year. You should
      also, before starting your search hike, learn the weather
      forecast for that day. And before hiking, look at the sky.
      I aborted a search hike when snow started falling on me.
      I don’t want you to get stranded in the mountains under
      unfavorable weather conditions. Even rain could make
      your hike difficult or impossible. And the rain could be
      long gone, leaving mud. I encountered this also, and it
      was miserable hiking through it.

      The above is my opinion. Yours may differ.

  12. And while everyone is looking under the rocks, ledges, cliffs and all, don’t forget to look under the juniper (evergreen) bushes–“Brave and in the wood”. TFTW, first chapter, Toys are Forever. Watch out for all the scary things in there!! No one walking by would see it. So get down to a kids view and look.


  13. In time every inch of the earth’s surface is buried by dust, debris, and ash that is why IMO f said I did not want to give that as a clue, but JUST FOR THE RECORD, IT’S A HINT! ff has even mentioned, and I paraphrase; with the passage of time, the chest will become harder to find, that is how the study of fossils, archaeology, anthropology, and history in general works.

    I hoped, after I wrote “Winter Thoughts” on this site, that some genius would break the layer’s of code ff subliminally incorporated in his poem, but if these comments I read are any indication of our collective intellect, we (all) have a long way to go! Just sayin? Maybe no one is right and everybody is a little bit, but tellin some they are wrong does not get the best from our thoughts so where are the Einstein’s, Salk’s and who will break on through to the other side? We can do better…

    Tom Terrific as in Enthusiastic!

    • Hey Tom…nice dissertation on what a genius isn’t. There are quite a few very clever folks here having themselves a grand time with Fenn’s poem…I do not believe it will be a genius that finds the treasure. Just sayin’

      • It will be a genius that finds the treasure because the Chase is an intelligence test. Fenn has hints in his books to that effect. It’s subliminal, but it’s there. My opinion.

      • Who is a genius? A farmer who understands the nature of things and knows how to produce sustenance for a billion people. Or is it the scientist who creates the means to kill a billion people? I think the redneck farmer is the real genius.

        • It will only require logical thinking, hard work and a little imagination to find the treasure. However, if you want to be the first one to arrive, being a genius wouldn’t hurt you any. Someone with proven creative problem solving skills and persistent determination will have a huge advantage. My opinion.

        • I agree Alsetenash, my father is a police officer & a farmer. I believe country folks have an advantage here. When you grow up on a farm you learn to figure out problems without much help, common sense is very helpful then. I’m a dielectric, high school dropout & believe I have a better chance than most. IMO

          • Well, I don’t know what’s a better chance. Whom ever rises to the top can claim the cream and whip up some butter. However, I don’t think it will be found by any chance of any scale .IMO .

    • Come on Tom, you writing that was suppose to help us solve the poem? Maybe we, the troglodytes of this forum, have solved way before your write up. Think you’re missing posts now and then. Already went over sediment, debris, dead vegetation, etc… Why he can’t say buried.
      So glad I’m not smart, would never have a chance at solving this thing.

  14. The best place to hide anything is out in the open…..

    – chest is “covered” but not buried and the outer “cover” helps protect the chest from some water contact……but not all.

    • I agree…bout 200 feet from a trail/river bank. Winter time covered in snow…summer time it will be wet from the winter run off…muddy and bugs galore. The average person will not want to walk in this enviroment so therefore they will stay on trail. Best time to search an area like this would be in late August/September when the ground is drier and the bugs are gone.

      Of course…JMO

    • Hi Bob,
      Check out the discussion thread specifically talking about Brown’s Canyon. I believe that there were at least a couple of searchers discussing that area there.

    • Hi Bob ,

      My Thoughts , I have herd that before form many searchers as well as Browns Canyon .
      But here is a different sight in that . General Terry U.S> Calvary . I think you will find this a awesome study and read . I f you like the old west and the history as I do . This will be neat fro you . Enjoy . Let me know what you think about it .

  15. Did he not bury his jars 3 and 4 feet deep the treasure is the same. I think he hide it where he knows no one will ever find it ever

  16. According to Forrest:
    “I never said I buried it.”
    and again:
    “I never said I didn’t bury it.”
    Therefore, it’s like a glass half empty… or is that half full?

        • If someone poured the glass half way…then it is half full.
          If someone filled the glass completely and then drank half of it…then it is half empty.

      • ” I ‘m a glass half full
        A mist of air to fill
        Worthy of said such a place
        At the fountain of knowledge I await .
        pick me up and fill my cup
        With the wisdom of knowledges age.”
        By Mr. D
        Glass Half -full courtesy of Google.
        “Is the glass half empty or half full?” is a common expression, a proverbial phrase, generally used rhetorically to indicate that a particular situation could be a cause for optimism (half full) or pessimism (half empty), or as a general litmus test to simply determine an individual’s worldview.

        World views speak a lot …
        Air is another interesting
        word …

        the invisible gaseous substance surrounding the earth, a mixture mainly of oxygen and nitrogen.
        an impression of a quality or manner given by someone or something.
        “she answered with a faint air of boredom”
        synonyms: expression, appearance, look, impression, aspect, aura, mien, countenance, manner, bearing, tone
        “an air of defiance”

        Middle English (in sense 1 of the noun): from Old French air, from Latin aer, from Greek aēr, denoting the gas. Sense 2 of the noun is from French air, probably from Old French aire ‘site, disposition,’ from Latin ager, agr- ‘field’ (influenced by sense 1). Sense 3 of the noun comes from Italian aria (see aria).a·ri·a
        noun: aria; plural noun: arias
        a long, accompanied song for a solo voice, typically one in an opera or oratorio.

        THANK YOU –
        The beautiful opera of life in which you have described is music to my ears.

        Knowledge is knowing the things not worthy of knowing. Like :

        As far as Fenn … January 27th 2010
        Fenn was at home
        January 28th 2010
        Fenn was at Boarders Book Store in Santa Fe –
        He Bought Catcher there.
        ” I was 79 or 80 when I hid the chest ”
        page 129 ttotc –
        ” He also thought it might have once held a book of Days ”
        Thats funny Forrest ;
        I know in 1150 A.d. that book is called a Book of Hours, but I am certain there was not a book of days in use then .
        Can or is it possible to locate the actual chest in it’s concealment and how will you see the difference between the two , Well there must be a way . There is barely any data on that object . The Chest I mean . And I think I have a way to find the data .
        Forrest found a horse shoe with a carrot top nail in it. The video is on The Old Santa Fe Trading Company web site of Forrest’s.
        He describes how he had to figure out why the nail was there and how dead as a door nail was a common understanding about howrses in those days . Besides they were like cleats on a foot ball player . And they could run faster in the terrain . At least thats what I learn of it. He also tells you the measurements of it when he paid someone to show him how to do it .
        Any ways just a different look at this I suppose . I like straight toward.
        So when he read Kismet , Bell Tolls ,
        and Catcher , I found a lot of warmth in knowing and seeing which is which that he said was like his life. SO I imagine that and did such a study , The measure is exactly as he describes , Accurate in every way .
        So now to do the same . With the poem .
        I like the poem a lot . The words I mean .
        Eight sentences with One question making of course nine total . I just see things different I guess .
        Take care all …
        Keep on seeking and may your travels be full of treasures.

    • If that glass was out in the forest, it may be buried by now. He hid the chest, it could be buried by the time someone finds it.

  17. Begin it

    Well what’s he mean anyway ?
    Begin what ? Do you know? DO you think you know?
    I love this stanza

    Yes these are my opinions based on real facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Like this one , would it interest you to know the last time Forrest Fenn was in Yellow Stone park ? I know !!!!!!!!!!
    Not a rumor , I have first hand data ( Forrest’s autograph with date ) on his sign in sheet . As well as eye witness account of that day .
    Matter a fact there are pictures of him there . I wont tell ……..
    You can find the data with out a computer . All the information needed is in the poem . I would say when the words lose their meaning you see more.
    Most would say whats he mean ….. Well in the upper- stratosphere of knowledge and writing . Words to see them , you must learn to make them neutral . Only then can logic take seed . Hey but what do I know . All this
    junk makes me look smart . I didn’t pass ninth grade . Barely could read when I started his chase . Since I went to college and had a 4.0 gpa!!!!!!!!!! What me!!!!! No way I was stuck in the back of my third grade class in a box around me , made fun of By Mrs. Lee cause I couldn’t read . She also called me Tuna
    well my least name is D’antuono , which means of the blood of Saint Antiono
    whom a family member came along th e Coronado trail . His name was Miguell Antonio. Hey thats my name ……

    This information is by chance ;

    Michael = Miguel
    D’Antuono = of the blood line of . Our name was changed for english speaking people when my family came here .
    My dads real name cause he was adopted was Wilbert OrnDorff.
    Which means Shinning Eagle on a hill . This name is interesting to me in a lot of ways . It also means Adler- look up Adler Tree; pinyon and of Wolf berry .
    Bringing into play Jan 1st. Look it up and look up names day . Look up Book of Hours not book of days . You will find the beginning of this trail there .
    The name of his wife family comes from . Neat enough that river around the area to link the two is Deleon River. This is also a place in Texas where Comanche Indians come from . Remember his grand ma chasing them out of her barn .
    That river would lead the two families together in past history , Fenn lives up to his name . To the fullest of his potential . And is a honor to know Mr. Fenn and to call him a true friend . I think he would completely agree with the last comment .
    These as all are opinions and you may comment all you would like . The information is there for all to see. I have learned so much that is is a treasure to have gone down the roads I have to get the data, I have traveled from Montana to New Mexico seeking the chest. But what I found was more then that . I found a education beyond anything I would have dreamed of.
    I call this RYE School ….. Thanks you Mr. Fenn for enrolling me and taking me as a student . All though I would agree the trap you set has my leg , and at times I feel as knawing my leg off to get out of it . My weight of information is well worth the cold. ” Silence in history :”
    Or may be in the wood is just meaning a writer ., Well of you are in the lead your a gun slinger.
    Enjoy have fun take care all , and for all purposes please each other . God has always intended that .

    My new and old is a dating systems .
    Look it up Ns and Os dating . This is how we date objects and all .
    Also means higher to lower liked the word ” Canyon “, or could be North and South .
    Dont ask how I know I wont tell ya.
    I would rather tell you to read that poem over and overt.
    Why do I speak the way I am . I am convinced I can read the first stanza and I
    can see it through the entire poem .

    Any way just new looks , don’t mean I proceed them .

  18. It’s in a petrified hollowed log that is a hundred million years old. And it will most likely stay in the log for another hundred million years.

  19. “I am convinced I can read the first stanza and I can see it through the entire poem”

    That’s exactly the way f intended it to be.

    • Please remember that This is only my opinion based on collected facts Through travel and hands on questions of folks Mr. Fenn knew.. and places he went . I cannot disclose who these people are at this time. Nor all the places I have collected data. I have had to ask permission of some to just read certain documents and letters . Only to bring to light in my mind who Mr. Forrest Fenn was . And he is everything he has brought to light. And then some . I think reading between the lines is a better way to understand him .
      I may in the future release the references used but it is not likely. I am using it to write a book of how Forrest’s book inspired me when I was undergoing surgery on my neck . With the possibility of never walking again . I spent 76 weeks in a chair where by 53 of those I could not feel anything . The chase let m in my mind still have the chance to provide a life to my family of five sons . So this was my escape from that God forsaken chair.
      The information cost me x-amout of dollars and time to collect . SO I wont just hand it out to every one . Please forgive me for that . It is not my intention to misdirect the Chase at all , but only in my intention to push you against your will . As I have been by Mr. Fenn .

      To address your comment now: Thats the way f intended it….
      Yes but why do you think that? I know why I said it.
      I only ask because ;
      The poem changes directions. It is not intended for the first stanza to be seen all the way through only it’s logic . It is a metaphysical switch back if you will in logic. If you rode a bike that you had to operate back wards it would take time to learn to ride a bike again . Then to ride it correctly again you would have to re learn it all over . I said it that way
      so not to describe my logic . We are going form point a to b and not the way we would go normally , and thats about all I have to say about it . But one the thing is ;
      I don’t see it through I meld it .
      Example of Meld:
      Maybe Heavy Loads and Water High really means
      Mother Earth and Father Sky.
      Just putting some basic things together is all .
      Page 6 ttotc
      “Well Im almost eighty and I think that’s so funny .”
      Oh , I don’t mean it’s funny because Im almost eighty , but it’s funny because I said it that way. I could have just said I was seventy-nine.”

      “Well Im almost eighty and I think that’s so funny .”
      Oh , I don’t mean Im almost eighty and I think thats so funny
      funny because Im almost eighty , but I’m almost eighty and I think thats so funny funny because I said it that way . I could have just said I was seventy nine .


  20. At the base of a tree maybe but otherwise uncovered except by snow in the wild open randomness (not random to anyone who knows the correct interpretation of the poem) of forrest some two hundred feet from a well traveled trail.

  21. FF has said that if he was standing where the TC is, that he would see
    (among other things) animals.

    Here’s my explanation of how he likes to “stretch” or “embellish”:

    I could stand on a street corner in New York City and “see animals” . . . if
    I stood there long enough. Maybe one dog in a month, and maybe one cat
    in a year.

    So don’t expect, necessarily, to see a high density of animals during your
    search hike. I think FF’s mention of animals wasn’t much help at all. And where can you stand in the Rocky Mountains and not see trees? That
    part isn’t much help either, in my opinion.

    The part about sage — or sagebrush — may have been helpful, to a small
    degree. I don’t know where the boundaries are regarding where sage

    Searchers have commented on FF’s desire to throw himself onto the TC
    to be found there much later. But if nothing else, he knows about animals.
    If he didn’t want his bones (and the rest of his dead body) to be dragged
    away from the TC, he may have put it in a (kind of) small enclosed place.

    I believe he has told us that the TC is not in a mine or cave. So what kind
    of enclosed place could he mean? I suppose that a hollow log could
    qualify, and folks have mentioned that maybe a hollow log could be
    petrified. I don’t know about that.

    I envision, perhaps, a space between two large boulders, where he could
    crawl in — but if he could do this, could a bear or mountain lion not also
    go in there and drag his body out?

    I think he was being dramatic about throwing his body onto the TC. I
    believe it’s relatively accessible by (say) a ten-year-old child. I also
    think the TC is (kind of) “out in the open”. That means not buried by FF underground . . . or even covered (by him) in dirt — although the natural
    forces of wind and rain may have caused a little bit of dirt to accumulate
    on or around the TC in the last 6 or 7 years. I will be looking for the TC
    to be totally “out in the open”, but I will also be looking to find it perhaps
    surrounded by rocks, or even covered by a rock or rocks.

    Folks have mentioned that “the blaze” may relate to a campfire . . . maybe
    a ring of rocks. If FF put a ring of rocks around the TC, then maybe this
    association with the word “blaze” would work. My opinion, though, is that
    “the blaze” is NOT a ring of rocks.

    I’ll be searching in a (smallish) group of trees — “the wood”.

    The above is my opinion. Yours may differ. Please be safe in the Rockies.

  22. Does it seem like there are more people than usual saying they know exactly where the treasure is?

    For me, I’m missing the hidey space details. I’ve had BOG 4 times and every search has been to the same general area. I recently realized that I stopped after the 5th clue, and then started looking for places that I would hide a chest – and I failed to decode the rest of the clues to see where FORREST would hide a chest. If I don’t find it on trip #5, then it’s back to the drawing board with a new WWWH. But like everyone else, I just don’t think I’m wrong… Good Luck to Everyone!

  23. There are 4 open ended poem lines. He didnt use a period or comma because open ended questions or poem line are those that require more thought. They ask the respondent to think and reflect. They hand control of the conversation to the respondant. An open ended poem is simply a poem that has an ending that is open for interpretation. For example: “if your brave and in the wood” ask yourself how do you get in the wood? Well to get inside there would have to be a fissure or crack to get inside the wood. You see it’s open for interpretation and requires more thought. That is just an example. I know what he is discribing and im not ready to tell.

    1. As i have gone alone in there
    2. Begin it where warm waters halt
    3. So why is it that I must go
    4. If you are brave and in the wood

  24. Markings on horses usually are distinctive white areas on an otherwise dark base coat color. From the artist perspective the blaze marking on a horses face is a perfect painting of what a small waterfall would look like if you were to paint it. We see the world the way we are not the way it really is. Look at the poem not the way you are but the way Fenn sees it. He has panited a beautiful picture that matchs way points and the words match topography. Some words in the poem have double meanings that require more thought.

    Not ready to tell!

    • Your question prompted me to look up an interesting article about them:

      It’s laced with conspiracy theory, which I don’t care much about, but does include some good images of the murals (If these are the ones you are referring to).

      Personally, although there are some interesting mountain landscape images included in these murals, I don’t believe that they have anything to do with the Chase. Just my opinion.

      • I think it does a little. It’s an airport and portal to the Rocky Mountains. I go through it almost every time I am on the hunt. It’s a cheap flight too.

        • If you have a layover at DIA this season Iceman, The New Belgium Hub is my personal favorite eating location there!

      • I agree, the conspiracies are just annoying. But the murals have a large blase. A turtle and a whale splashing about reminiscent of wwwh. A home of brown. The title is in peace and harmony with nature. That or the poem is a riddle that has to do with the cumbres and toltec railroad or steam engines maybe.

        • While I usually love art, I did not enjoy the emotional feelings and sense of harm and destruction displayed here. IMO it has nothing to do with The Chase.

          • The murals are about humanity coming together and creating peace on earth after some of the terrible acts perpetrated by our species. You must be another conspiracy loon.

          • Hold on, James. I don’t think Sheryl was going down the conspiracy track in her comment. I think that these murals can stir up some creepy parallels with regards to genocide, holocaust, apocalypse and the like and that Sheryl was reacting to it in that manner, which is legit and understandable.

            But I also agree with what your saying about how the piece as a whole is about humanity overcoming those bad things. I’m just saying that your both right and maybe misunderstanding each other a little. It’s got some bad vibes wrapped up in it, but at the same time is an overall admirable and though-provoking piece of art.

            And while I’m not sure about it being directly tied into figuring out the solution to the Chase, if it gives one some impetus to get the creative juices flowing to looking at the poem with a fresh perspective, then that’s not a bad thing either and go for it. 🙂

  25. I am not talking about the murals. I’m referring to Fenn standing there at a small waterfall and trying to describe it in a poetic poem. Remeber we see the world the way we are not the way it really is. Fenn used a word that best desribes what he is looking at. The shape of the blaze on a horses face the white flowing marking in his bind best described the small waterfall he was looking at.

    Not ready to tell.

  26. Ever seen the movie ‘Pet Sematary’…it’s probably some place like that. Remember FF said “he’d see animals”.

  27. Its out this world, the hidey space must be in outer space somewhere in the Milky Way , Polaris is North Star, Kochab is old Cephus will be new. Could be the treasure boxes one in the north and one in the south near the Southern Cross . On earth could be in a power vault near St Mary’s in Montana, seems things aren’t always linear , But what do I know seems I’m always wrong. Elevation just don’t fit. Fenn,s treasure is for sure in a Heavenly place where ever that is. sure is Sunny here today, Hope the wheather getting better in the rockies . Be back soon.

  28. We all know Fenn said: “I know the treasure chest is wet.”, and when asked if it’s still wet he replied: “physics tells me the treasure is wet.” The ‘wet’ reference has always puzzled me. I’m convinced it is not submerged but if it’s covered in ‘frozen water’ is that still considered wet? Is coating the bronze in wax to protect it considered wet? Maybe he is referring to condensation but he also said: “You will find no mildew in the treasure chest”.
    Webster’s definition of wet:
    a : consisting of, containing, covered with, or soaked with liquid (as water)
    b : of natural gas : containing appreciable quantities of readily condensable hydrocarbons
    I think he means the ‘b’ definition. In my Googling efforts I found this:
    ‘Tar is a complex mixture of condensable hydrocarbons’.


    • Randawg. Because FF said “Physics” , I always looked at what he said there as meaning of copper’s chemical reaction to air and moisture over time. It will eventually turn green. A good example of this is the Statue Of Liberty . It is plated with with copper and eventually she turned all green. Copper is also anti mildew. . Indulgence is bronze, which is part copper. Over time it is possible that Indulgence could be green in color. It doesn’t need to be in water for this to happen , just exposed to moisture . IMO. I could be wrong.

      • Patina (/ˈpætᵻnə/ or /pəˈtiːnə/) is a thin layer that variously forms on the surface of stone; on copper, bronze and similar metals (tarnish produced by oxidation or other chemical processes);[1] on wooden furniture (sheen produced by age, wear, and polishing); or any such acquired change of a surface through age and exposure. Patinas can provide a protective covering to materials that would otherwise be damaged by corrosion or weathering. They may also be aesthetically appealing.

        Exactly! It’s called “petina.”

        On metal, patina is a coating of various chemical compounds such as oxides, carbonates, sulfides, or sulfates formed on the surface during exposure to atmospheric elements (oxygen, rain, acid rain, carbon dioxide, sulfur-bearing compounds), a common example of which is rust which forms on iron or steel when exposed to oxygen. Patina also refers to accumulated changes in surface texture and colour that result from normal use of an object such as a coin or a piece of furniture over time.[2]

        • Sheryl Lynn. Thank you, petina is it exactly. Statue Of Liberty ; over which she stands sentinel-the green goddess!

          • Thank you for your comments. Would you describe the Statue of Liberty as being wet?

        • I think it was WINTER TIME in the Rockies
          when FF provided his comment about the TC being wet. Especially if it was early in the day in the Rockies when FF posted that the TC is wet, then he could have been referring to condensation. For example, on the bottom of the bronze chest, in the shade, there would be a bit of dew. Just one droplet could qualify the word “wet”.

          I have been urging searchers not to under-estimate FF. His comment about “wet” is
          not a clue or even a hint. All IMO.

          • I don’t know if his words are words based at the time he spoke them. I don’t view his ‘wet’ comment as being much of a hint nor clue either. To my understanding, in the Rockies there are many more wet months than dry months and rain in the summer. IMO. But I don’t know much of anything for certain with anything I think lol. IMO .

          • Here is the original quote:”If I was standing where the treasure chest is, I’d see trees, I’d see mountains, I’d see animals. I’d smell wonderful smells of pine needles, or pinyon nuts, sagebrush—and I know the treasure chest is wet. Well you’ve asked me a lot of questions and some of them—most of them I answered, a few I haven’t, but I’ve got to tell you—there’s one thing I told you I wish I had not.” f

            This was then followed later by this quote:, ” “Mr. Fenn, In your interview with New Mexico True Stories, you mentioned that you know that the treasure is wet. I checked out the date of that interview and it looks like you said that in a February, which could mean that you knew that it had snowed or rained at the site of the treasure chest, or simply because of higher water.
            Now we are in mid-summer, and if we assume that no storms have passed through recently, would you know that the treasure is wet now? ~Thanks, B
            Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet”. f

            Hope that this clears it up for you. JDA

          • Tighterfocus;

            It is my opinion that you need to take a “Tighter Focus” on this one. The two quotes I have supplied more than imply (at least to me) that Forrest was NOT talking about a bit of “dew”. A small bit of research is all that it takes – at least in MY opinion. JDA

          • i’m firmly in your camp on this one too JDA, and often wonder whether Forrest regretted mentioning ‘wet’ rather than the generally excepted ‘pinion nuts’ comment.

            and if the TC is wet to some degree (in mid-summer due to physics) but it’s not submerged, then it must be located within a shallow tributary/water-course or natural spring imho

            “We live in a Newtonian world of Einsteinian physics ruled by Frankenstein logic.” – David Russell

          • CH;

            I am in total agreement with your logic:
            ” then it must be located within a shallow tributary/water-course or natural spring ”

            Or combine the two – then it must be located within a shallow tributary/water-course and fed by natural spring . Just Musin’ JDA

          • May 16, 2015 – “How can anything be in the Rocky Mountains and not be wet.” Even if it were buried six feet deep, it would still be wet.”

          • Tried posting this earlier but the traffic is bumper to bumper.

            …it’s probably already wet, and look at what fire did to the twin towers. Nature makes her own rules, James, so I try to not be absolute when talking about her.
            MW’s Oct 27th 2014

          • Seeker,

            I don’t know what to say. How in the world can you compare a terrorist destruction of the twin towers to Nature?

            Nature had nothing to do with their collapse. Airplanes striking buildings at 500 MPH+ loaded to capacity with JP-4 or whatever is going to raise steel temps to the level that the structure is not capable of handling the building “dead” loads, pure an simple. And guess what? The building collapses. Sorry for using “dead” loads but I think you get my drift.


          • Thank you for clarifying that Alsetenash. I like totally missed the context. My apologies Seeker.


          • Alsetenash,
            Thanks for the link… I was having a hard time yesterday with both sites.

            I didn’t say it, fenn did.
            I’m a bit surprised that so many don’t know or dismiss these quotes and Q&A’s.

            That was my point of posting them… There was so much talk about one and only one quote… the chest is wet. I just don’t understand why they don’t/won’t utilize all the information, and just run with what works for their “general solve” …

            Then again, I don’t know why I even bother posting it. They’ll just come up with an excuse that works for them anyways.

          • Seekster – “quotation marks!” ..heard of them, ever?! ..i mean, better call Saul 🙂

            and yes, you’re entirely right (& brave) to directly challenge Newtons Laws of physics, whatever they are.. (something about an apple or pear situation..?)

            bearing in mind tho, the context of Forrests comments, re: wet in mid-summer etc. combined with gravities influence on sub-terrainian flow-paths and stuff, that have a natural tenancy to sprout anywhere, randomly..

            soooo… are you calling Isaac Newton a liar then? – tsk tsk, def sounds like it 🙁

            ( ..don’t worry tho Seeks – jus so happens i have Saul on speed-dial
            ..jus’ say the word mate 🙂 )

          • CH,
            Gee, I’d of thought ~MW’s Oct 27th 2014 ~ would have been a clue… my bad.
            But lets see it from the bones side of things… A man travels to a place to be among the trees, animals, and smells of nature, takes from his pocket a RX for sleepy time tea [extra strength] to lay wet, while waiting for the day’s light to fade into twilight… “Just take the chest and leave my bones, or something like that.”

            Then again, maybe we can forgo the gloves, and bring galoshes and a water resistant poncho instead.

          • Interesting is this , as a reflection of interpretations of something said or omitted in saying, to how things are perceived in meanings. The what is said in meaning depends on the who said it. Human nature vs Mother Nature. Mother Nature knows where the hidey spot is lol.

          • jeez Seeker – write the intros for that ‘Days of our Lives’ documentary much?

            ya may also wish to mention how safe it is to ‘not be eaten by a shark’ whilst dipping oneself in the vivaciousness of a seductive natural spring, forever..

            ( ..water resistant poncho optional – albeit, totally 80’s 🙂 )

  29. Well…my hidey space may be a BUST. Looks like there may be a Trouble With Confidence…Part Deux. I’m still investigating though, so there still remains some small hope.

  30. Maybe its hidden in an Eagles nest on a pole near St Mary, Lots of visitors there, Sirius though enjoy the chase everyone.

  31. The day f, said he knew that the chest was wet, it may have
    been a day, that it rained, in the area that the chest is located.
    He may have the weather report on his computer, for that
    area, just my option, but if I am right, this supposed hint may
    be worthless?

    • Sam,
      Someone posed that same question to Forrest. I think on MW, but I don’t have the exact source. (Anybody else have it?) His response was “physics tells me the treasure is wet.”

      • It’s here:


        Mr. Fenn,

        In your interview with New Mexico True Stories, you mentioned that you know that the treasure is wet. I checked out the date of that interview and it looks like you said that in a February, which could mean that you knew that it had snowed or rained at the site of the treasure chest, or simply because of higher water.

        Now we are in mid-summer, and if we assume that no storms have passed through recently, would you know that the treasure is wet now? ~Thanks, B

        Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet. f

      • Key words for a search on that Q&A… How can anything be in the Rocky Mountains and not be wet…
        These should provide links to the full original Q&A.

    • Hi Sam.

      Your point is one of many that was said to infer something relating to Fennology and the statement that included “the chest is wet”.

      Yourviewpoint should be an explanation to those words, that should be on everyone’s list wwhen considering its meaning.

      Even though one may not put it on that list, it still is a plausible answer for that phrase and should not be discarded as “nothing”.


      • TIM,
        I gotta hand it to Iron W for owning up, curious if you’re planning a quiet sneak out to investigate your solve, just in case you go Bust?

        It goes to show, you can’t rush Mother Nature

  32. Tom, the chest in my option is not air or moisture tight, moisture can get in, once it gets in, it may stay? Is this physics? Moisture may stay in the chest from one rain to the next rain, no matter where it is located. I would guess that is why f, sealed the bottle in the chest with his history.
    I think this shows that f, thought moisture gets in the chest, or he would not have sealed the bottle in the chest.

  33. Buried theory, part II.
    Some think the chest is located out in the open. Like sitting at the base of a tree sprinkled with a few pine needles.
    I don’t think so.

    Mr Fenn likes to dig:
    He buried his 8 bronze bells.
    He dug a hole for the 18″ x 10″ ugly pot. (SB 166)
    He buried the bell tower post 24″. (SB 172)
    He digs out 25′ diameter x 7′ deep Kivas as a hobby.
    He has said the treasure is hidden, instead of buried, because he does not want to give that as a clue.
    I just can’t shake the thought that he may have possibly buried the chest.
    JMO of course.

    • randawg–

      I may agree with you. But I think he had a black patch over his left eye, a parrot on his shoulder, and said “Aaaargh Forrest Fenn, Shiver me timbers, did you really just do that? Aaarrrgh!” 🙂

    • Dawg-
      There is no need for guessing. The answer is in the poem, if you can find it. It’s the ninth clue. My opinion of course 🙂

    • The phrase “look quickly down” is what stands out to me as signifying little or no digging required. That’s only my gut impression.

    • Can’t fault your logic Randawg. But then how do you explain his comment regarding if someone got within 12′ of it that it would be hard to imagine it wouldn’t be found?

      There would have to be yet another indicator (the blaze?) to locate the spot. There are a few different meanings of “down” so it would seem for the 12′ to work, then it would likely be as towards the ground. I’m still struggling with “look quickly down” just because it seems too easy. The poem is “Difficult but not impossible ‘. But then he also says don’t over-complicate it.

      But l’m still studying and thinking hard. Just hope my brain cells last as my 93 year old mother died of dimentia in January and at my age I don’t even want to contemplate that possibility. That’s why I love this thing so much. It keeps the gray matter working; the best defense for that horrible illness.

      • I agree with Dawg. I believe it’s buried. Actually, buried at an EXACT coordinate. That’s why he said to bring a GPS. And concerning his 12′ comment…….. A GPS is accurate to within about 10-12 feet. So if someone figured the coordinates and searched it +/- 12′ or so with a metal detector, that would explain it. IMO

        • Or he said bring a GPS because he’s worried that someone is going to get lost in an area they are unfamiliar with. Same thing with a good map and a sandwich. Remember the trip he took looking for Lewis and Clark… they didn’t bring enough food and they had to use the map to start a fire 🙂

          • It’s definitely easier to carry a sandwich than a porcupine.

            (true story . . . )


          • I would.. I mean im not going to carry a salami sandwich with italian dressing in a greasy paper bag… but I would have a couple of energy bars and plenty of water. In fact, when I went searching two years ago… even though where I was looking wasnt far off the beaten path, I had my backpacking stuff… backpack, tent, stove, fuel, tent, foam pad, sleeping bag and some food. The nice thing is, then you have a nice bag to put the treasure chest in and no one will suspect a thing 🙂

    • Thanks Sparrow I forgot to mention that.
      PG 133 of TTOTC Fenn dreamed he was Captain Kidd looking for his treasure on Gardiner’s Island.
      It is well documented that Kidd buried his treasure there.
      (Interesting, …no?)

    • randawg, “possibly” is one of those versatile words that also
      means the opposite scenario could be the existing one. In
      other words, FF may have possibly NOT buried the chest.
      If he buried the chest, it’s likely that a lot of experimental digging would be in order, even by one who had totally correctly solved the poem. This, to me, doesn’t make a lot of sense. Would FF want a redneck Texan — with 12 kids
      to manage — to be spending his time laboriously digging, instead of taking care of his kids? I don’t think so! So forget the need to dig, okay? The TC is hidden, but not buried. And for all the folks that are so fond of using the phrase “in plain sight”, I say that FF has been widely and generally under-estimated for at least 6 or 7 years now. I
      do believe that the TC is not stuck into a narrow place that would make the thing very inaccessible by one who has found it. A hiker is not likely (statistically) to have a rope or long hook conveniently on hand. But gloves do make
      sense to me. Good luck, everyone. IMO.

      • “Possibly” is the word to use when the facts are not yet known. Many who have jumped to certainty in the Chase have already been proven wrong.
        What if the clues do lead to very specific spot in which to dig? And why can’t the Texan’s kids help him dig? I’m not sure it’s buried, but I think it is under ground level. Only time will tell right?
        Good luck with your rope and hook.


        “When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”
        – Mr. Spock.

  34. Poetry page was closed for comments so I will leave this here.

    Long journeys begin with just a step
    Back foot forward and then the next
    Against the weathers full effects
    Up mountain sides, tops wind swept

    Legs grow tired, out of breath
    There is no shame to stop and rest
    Fast is folly, use patience lest
    Eagerness become your death

    Wear your smile as you near the end
    Know your journey’s not for naught
    The hidey spot, just where you thought
    Treasure in hand, leave with a grin
    Knowing you’ll come back again

    Happy early Easter weekend everyone!

  35. “Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet. f”


    What we know about water and physics, may be able to lead us to an exact location or region. Sort of like a “reverse engineering” of the poem.

    Can it be done? Let’s poke around…
    – How can it be “wet”?
    + in the literal way – ???
    + In an allegoric manner – ???
    + By precipitation – we know that the RMs have snow, water, rain, mist, damp, dew, and probably others I have already categorized into these.
    + a wet chest – We know that bronze can last a long time in really just about any type of weather. If you have not already studied the characteristics of the chest, please investigate that, as well as, the word “wet”), because some things will be much easier to follow. We also know that everything in the chest can only have some of those characteristics of moisture. In other words, physics tell us that moisture will accumulate in an unsealed container, thus the inside of the chest could container some residual effects of water….”the chest is wet”.
    But just because of how moisture accumulates in different temps and or atmospheres, a semi-sealed containers will accumulate some moisture, and very possibly, evaporate that moisture over a period of time if the container is in direct sunlight. The external heating of a bronze box, will cause the moisture inside to evaporate, as long as it is not opened repeatedly….as this one is not.

    To keep this interesting, what are your thoughts on the literal and allegoric meanings of “wet”? I’d be interested in what others think if you are willing to interject something.

    Best of luck to all!


    • Hola Tim 🙂

      i agree with JDA, that the chest might be located within a small rivulet, or beneath a natural spring perhaps, given that a blaze (above?) can mean a ‘scar on a rock’, and rocks are so easily scarred by water over time

      but physics is hugely general, apparently ..so i’m jus gonna roll with my favourite uncontrollable bits (gravity & climatology) and guess that it’s wet all year round – esp given all that ‘micro-waxy-stuff’ that Forrest spent the time to research and practice

      ( ..but sshhh, just don’t tell JDA that i like him though..!!)

      ( ..he might get all gushy 🙂 )

      • Thank you Dal!
        I see I have some binge reading and watching to do.
        I am new to the hunt and find it fascinating to say the least.

      • wait jus a cotton-pickin’ minute there, Dal-ness!!
        surely you actually meant to say ‘just Aussies’ ..right??
        ..given that i cain’t remember any ‘NZ’ interviewer asking Forrest what ‘North’ means..??

        ..i mean… EVERYWHERE is ‘North’ to us southern Hobbiteses (>270º and <90º and everything!!)

        ..tsk tsk – you're SUCH a big fibber, Dal.. 🙁
        ( ..i'm ringing Richie Cunningham immediately ..bucko!)

  36. I recall a clock tower at the intersection in west Yellowstone by the old train depot, and also recall Forrest saying he looks at the webcam there and the blaze orange train car by the building he used to shower in.
    Perhaps “if you’ve been wise (clockwise) and found the blaze (the orange train car) look quickly down your quest to cease ( at the clock ) but tarry scant with marvel gaze ( the base of the clock ) just take the chest and go in peace. (When no ones looking) Perhaps the old coot snuck it into the base of that clock in the middle of the night right in plain sight where everyone looks often? Is there a service door on the west side of the base of the clock?? someone go look, I’ll fire up the stove and get some Stetson Stew ready for Jake 🙂

    • I do think it’s in some place like that at the base of something. where there’s a lot of people and eyeballs around hence (tarry scant with marvel gaze) timing is everything, gotta be quick when no one’s looking, probably 200′ from the viewing area. TIMING IS EVERYTHING! especially for pilots

  37. Here’s a technical question for the people who believe in an “X” marks-the-spot solution. Suppose you have an exact location for your solve (latitude and longitude coordinates). How do you find the treasure if it is buried (which I believe it is) if you only have a recreational grade GPS, which can be off by as much as 30 to 40 meters in the mountains. Even if Forrest himself gave you the exact coordinates, you could dig for a week in an area that could be several thousand square feet, given the lack of accuracy of the GPS, and still not uncover the chest.

    • Warlock – Long time no see – Welcome back.

      To me, the last stanza is the answer to your question.
      “If you’ve been wise (Past tense) and found the blaze”(sic)
      Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
      But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
      Just take the chest and go in peace.”

      If you have followed the “directions” correctly up to this point, you will have found a blaze (maybe more than one). When you DO find THIS blaze, look quickly down (to another location), and you will BE SHOWN something that will end your quest. (Another “blaze” or marking perhaps?) But do not spend a lot of time looking at this “tarry scant” – Just take the chest and go in peace.

      Sound confusing enough? Well, for me at least, once ALL of the riddles have been unraveled, it makes sense. JDA

      • Thanks JDA – Not confusing, no – just another way of looking at it. In my solve, the blaze and everything else has already been taken in to account and my final result is a set of coordinates. I just need to get to those coordinates, that one square foot area but I cannot do it with a $200 GPS.

      • Warlock62 – the most common cause of GPS inaccuracy in the wilderness is ‘signal block’ which is caused by lack of adequate satellite signal within narrow canyons or under a dense veg canopy, the same problems can also be experienced in urban CBD ‘canyons’, but worse still is ‘multi-path error’ where the signal bounces off canyon walls to give you a completely false co-ordinate altogether, and will have you chasing ya tail all day long, but never realising it 🙁

        yes, a more expensive sat-nav (with access to GLONASS/Galileo systems) will def help with more accuracy, but is certainly no silver-bullet either, esp when under dense bush

        have you considered plotting your X co-ord onto the right map, and leaving the sat-nav just for emergencies?

        i mean.. you DO have the right map, doncha?? 🙂

        • That’s excellent info hobbit. Thank you for your input. Like you said, in the Rockies there’s no sure fire way to pinpoint an EXACT square foot, even with the best systems, and some cost $10,000 and more. I’m not sure what you mean by the right map. I use Google Earth and various topo maps. What do YOU mean by the right map? :O)

          • Hi Warlock…I too have pondered, what exactly is meant by a map nei,g “a good map”?

            Here are some of my thoughts….

            FF at one time had said – in some extent – to “draw an X on the map”…..but I’ve always been questioning…which map?…what kind of map?….where did he get it from?…why that specific map?….what access to maps does he have?….can I acquire this map?….does one need the internet to use a good map?….

            – on the map he probably used extensively…….was he able to draw an X on his map based upon hints and clues?
            – what map was he referencing when he decided to say that?

            So in thought, using reason and logic, if we had that map he used, we would know what he is talking about directly, and since we don’t, we now have to guess on what map to use, right? Still with me?


            Sooooo….*in his best computer synthetic voice*

            SHALL WE PLAY A GAME?

            FYI….Did you know FF is/was a AAA member? Did you know you can acquire the same maps that he may be “referencing”, if you are a AAA member – if any region that they stock. YNP included.

            Good luck.

          • Tim ~ “So in thought, using reason and logic, if we had that map he used,..”

            When you talk about “a map or that map” You seem to rely on a type of map.. ex. a AAA map. Ok sure.

            Yet the logic and the reasoning is missing a detail… GE “and / or” a good map… Doesn’t that imply GE alone is a good map [ mapping system ] itself?

            We also have; A map is a map and the more detailed a map the better~ if you have the right map.

            Would it be logical that any map we should be looking at, has those details? and attempt to figure out what those “detail” represent?
            A road map is basically just that.
            A historical sight map is basically just that.
            A topographical map is just that.
            A water system maps is just that.
            A flight plan map. [aircraft]
            A survey map.
            Sun alignment map.
            Star constellation map.
            Rail Road map.
            Maps of pinyon-juniper forests {yep there are those as well} [ LOL on the CD and in MT.. Who’da thunk it]
            etc. etc.

            Maybe we should ask ourselves more about the details of a map.. and / or.. “GE,” than a type of one and only mapping. I mean, If GE [ and it mapping systems ] is good enough, can we or do we, need another type of map?

            The fact that fenn add GE into the equation has always made me think… is it more about an arrangement of details, than a single type of any map…
            The one thing that pops into my head is “observing”… GE allows picture observation [ for lack of a better term ], not just in one location, but all over the search area and more.

            We’re even guessing if fenn used a map himself at all. Yep, the poem is a map… but maybe fenn only describes the clues references by being on site and observing / knowing the location and made the poem a map from that only.
            Lets face if… would ‘we’ need a map IF we ‘knew’ the place[s]?

          • Hi seeker…..great response.

            Now don’t get me wrong on that i don’t think GE isn’t a good map, because it can be, but it gives a different perception to a birds eye tothe viewer, much different than a BOTG view, while trekking across the landscape.

            I also am one to believe the poem consists of a “Sunday drive through the mountains” and FF just observed and then memorized/wrote down what he saw. That to me, shows familiairity within the construction of the poem by the maker.

            So, although I agree with your look at the poem, I think that you do have to mix and match per se the different components of basic mountain hiking {“safe for a family”} and then try your luck on a viable soultion.

            I also believe many different things than the community in this hunt, as you differ in thoughts than i….but…..believe it or not, you have some similar thinking as I do, and like me, methodically take steps……

            Did that help?

          • Speaking of maps… how about this early reported comment:

            “Every day, people call begging for clues. The other day, I had 21 email requests. One man asked if he should buy a topographical map and I told him he’d be better served reading the book again.” Fenn looked at me. “All you have to do is think about the nine clues and follow them in order.”

            There are some interesting things that can be inferred from this… of course f has more recently said:

            “Read the clues in my poem over and over and study maps of the Rocky Mountains,” he said via email. “Try to marry the two. The treasure is out there waiting for the person who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.”

          • nice quote JCM, and is yet another example of Forrest being all elusive, as usual.

            “Is the map that needs to be used to discover where warm waters halt found online or in paper form? or both?” ~mdc777

            “C’mon now agent 777, a map is a map. The more detailed maps are most useful if you have the right map, but I’m not sure I needed to tell you that.f”

            I enjoy a good topo-map not just for the natural geographical detail, but for the historical detail too, including old man-made structures and other points of interest (i.e. my solve for ‘heavy loads’ was based upon recorded historical pack-trails, which often tend to follow waterways)

            maybe i’m not looking at ‘thee right map’ but i’m having lotsa fun anyhoos 🙂

        • well.. i’m not entirely certain of what Forrest considers the “right map” to be, but if you appreciate maps that possess the most geographical detail & accuracy, then ya def can’t go past an official USGS topo-map i reckon

          coz if you can’t plot your X on one of those maps accurately, i’ll immediately eat one of Papa Bobs Ultimate Obesity sandwiches, with extra fries and extra-extra mustard too ..seriously!!

          (..anything but Jakes old hat 🙂 )

          • No, don’t eat that hat! I can PLOT my “X” but finding the exact location BOTG comparing it to the “X” on my map is the tough part. How does someone find the exact spot on the ground to insert the shovel, based on an “X” on a topo map? That sandwich sounds good though!

          • whatever ya do Warlock62, don’t eat the sandwiche ..or the hat!! – trust me 🙂

            and although i’m def not a loyal fan within the ‘it’s buried’ camp, i can well advise you to record multiple (static) sat-nav points over a duration of a few hours, and mean/average all co-ord points if that’s an app-option (or decimalised co-ords is easy on a calculator) for more accuracy

            but ‘best hobbit-advice ever’ is, always wear steel-cap boots whilst frantically digging ..esp if ya spade is sharp!! 🙂

          • ..i mean, they don’t call me “three toes hobbit” for nought, that’s fer sure 🙁

            ( ..fact!! 🙂 )

          • Unfortunately topographical maps are being downgraded today. The historical cabins, mines, roads and trails have been removed. Also name changes to creeks and mountains. Today’s “new and improved” topo maps are almost plain compared to those of yesteryear. Lots of X’s have been removed.

          • * * * * Strawshadow wrote – “Unfortunately topographical maps are being downgraded today. . . . Today’s “new and improved” topo maps are almost plain compared to those of yesteryear. Lots of X’s have been removed.” * * * *

            Too true, Straw, in more ways than one.

            Yes, the new USGS print-on-demand files are convenient and fully functional, but almost devoid of character.

            The old style I used for 40 years were to me little works of cartographic AND landscape art. I took them everywhere I hiked or backpacked, whether I needed them or not for route-finding, just because it was always such fascinating exercise (or even just pastime) to compare the cartography to the land, and turn it into narrative. And finding your place in a bigger picture was also a kind of time-seeing into the past and future – there was yesterday, and over here are some several possible tomorrows.


          • Many will already have this, many more simply use Google Earth, but for any who appreciate maps-as-artifacts, these may be of interest, and maybe even useful.

            Here’s a site where you can view the USGS topo map index map for each state (easy to zoom in to read the names of the maps corresponding to where you’re looking/travelling).


            This one’s a great viewer that takes you right down to traditional topo map view (can toggle between topo and satellite view)



          • sorry to hear that Strawshadow, hopefully it’s not about budget cuts (an all-too-familiar phrase of late) but whatever their reasoning for reducing topo-data will never be a good enough reason, in my book

            JAKe – both are great links (cheers) and def agree with your “landscape art” observations 🙂

            hope ya like this link too http://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=931d892ac7a843d7ba29d085e0433465&center=-110.484538,44.573916&level=9

    • Good point WL
      Shortly before my last trip I bought a older used one off ebay for 30 bucks, the moment it comes on you get the accuracy warning/ at times as high as +/- 120ft

      In a panic I picked up trex 20 online [about 4x the money] hoping for better accuracy, trouble is once I was there I couldn’t work it…I felt like throwing at 1 or 2 of the smart-alleck-gradeschoolers, that were giggling at us.

      Nah, like ff said, if by some miracle you’re 12ft close, doubtful you won’t recognize it.

      I’m not knocking handhelds, they most certainly can help you find your way back to the car, even in a snowstorm (surprisingly so, since I did fall down a few times, dropping my backpack | that model 62 always acted funny after that trip 2014)

      • Sounds like we’ve had the same problem, 9clues. Thanks for the input. I’ve thought about renting a much more accurate and expensive model.

    • Warlock – if you have to ask about GPS accuracy, you probably do not have a good solve. The person who has the correct solve with go directly there (no concern for GPS accuracy). There is much more to the terrain with BOTG and the correct solve will not need to worry with a GPS at all. (no special tools are required). IMO

  38. Is there a place on this blog to discuss the potential that he may have buried it? Or am I in the right place? And if he did bury it how deep? Quickly down is that a few feet or several?

      • I have given much thought to the hiding place but from a different perspective. What’s the most popular and profitable thing the finder can do? Write another poem, write another book and rehide the treasure. Keep the Chase alive! Forever. If you can find it, you can hide it again. Find the Fenn treasure. Hide the Fenn treasure. Be like Iceman.

      • Yes I agree that Mr. Fenn likes to bury things. I found a curious thing a couple weeks ago and didn’t have a shovel or metal detector with me. I dug one hole last summer in a different location and came up empty. I was in the he didn’t bury it he hid it camp for a long time but now I have been leaning towards the whole buried idea and don’t like it but what have I got to loose? It just bugs me that this curiosity I found is located about 100 ft from a human made trail. I wonder if Mr. Fenn is a bad judge of distance? I can pace out my steps for distance and it just bugs me that I am going to dig a hole there with the 200ft reference he gave.

      • I would investigate that curious thing Road Hawk. Mr Fenn never specified how far ‘close proximity’ is. I attached a question posted on Jenny’s site:

        Dear Mr. Fenn,
        Can you clarify for us your definitions of “close proximity” and “very close proximity?”

        It’s not that easy Milan. Are you asking me to carry a caliper in my pocket? Each “close proximity” is different, relative, and site-specific, as you pointed out. So I can’t answer your question. To an ant a mud puddle can be like an ocean. f

  39. I just realized I did my entire search unaware that I had an exposed chest firmly in mind. Not even a burlap bag covering it. Guess I gotta go back.

    I think it was the “12 ft” comment that established or reinforced that assumption, which slipped by unnoticed. Amazing.

  40. One of Mr Fenn’s most re-quoted quotes:
    “I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure.
    It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”ff

    It doesn’t mean that some random hiker would stumble on it. I believe it means that if you follow the clues correctly, they will lead a searcher close enough to the chest to see or otherwise ascertain the location of the hidey space.

  41. I think that anyone who gets within 12 feet of the TC will know — in some
    detail — how and where to look for the TC, although the last bit of detail
    may not become apparent until the person is within a few hundred yards
    of the TC. I don’t think it’s buried underground. I think it has one smallish rock on top (possibly to deter animals or wind from opening the lid). Possibly more than one rock. And I think sharp edges may be found
    on the rock(s) . . . thus the advice to wear gloves. Mine are leather.

    Good luck to all searchers. IMO.

      • Some important visual info is only available BOTG, and not visible on GE. Being BOTG and close enough to see this info is important re: knowing how and where to look. IMO.

  42. Today I went and finished checking out the curiosity I found two weeks ago but this time with a shovel. Wishing I had a metal detector. Thouroughly enjoyed poking around for about four hours before a thunderstorm kicked me out of there.

    How deep is a hole?

    Everyone stay safe! Have bear spray will travel. Cheers!

  43. The poem says your effort will be worth the cold. To me, this indicates that wading in a creek is required. The other possibility, less likely in my opinion, is that the treasure is located at an elevation that is cold year round.

  44. One fact that I consider very important to finding the treasure chest location: Forrest was originally planning to commit suicide in the location as well; not JUST hide the treasure.

    Forrest intended to lie down and take a large quantity of sleeping pills and to slowly and peacefully drift away (Which doesn’t sound like a terrible way to go, if you ask me).

    My point here is that if one were ending their life in this manner, I would think that there would be a strong desire to have very pleasant last-minute sensations.

    The last thing that one would want see before closing one’s eyes forever would be something truly beautiful (marvelous, even).

    The last sounds that one would want to hear would be pleasant (a babbling brook, the sounds of birds and forest creatures, the wind blowing through the trees … not automobiles).

    The last feelings of touch would be comfortable (dry and lying on soft grass or pine needles, not laying down in a mucky marsh or in a waterway).

    Yes, this is all just my opinion, but I don’t think I’m taking any huge leaps of empathy in this line of reasoning. If the spot doesn’t seem like a pleasant place for one to lie down for a final nap, it is likely that it is wrong, IMO.

    • Blex;

      An interesting analysis. What if you can have your cake and eat it too? How about a place, high up on a hill where a beautiful valley can be seen all-around. A valley Magnificent in its beauty. Just a few feet away, there is a small babbling brook or rill or rivulet. The ground may be wet and marshy, and it is here that Indulgence lies. She lies in a spot that few would venture to, and yet is near a spot that Forrest probably spent many-an-hour sitting and contemplating the beauty of this valley, and how it came to be. This makes sense to me.

      Sit and contemplate the valley, take your pills, and then climb down a few feet to where the little babbling brook plays. JDA

      • I think that only a few feet of difference between the location of the chest and a comfortable spot to lie down and take in the view seems reasonable to me, JDA. Your described location sounds right in line with what I was picturing.

      • Or, find that creek with the running water, below the home of Brown, and when you get there, turn UP the creek and start looking for the blaze. Whatever direction the water is running, turn toward the running water. It says, “… no paddle UP your creek”.

        It’s the only way there will be “water high” (IMHO)

        No valley visible in the creek, but from there you see trees, birds, various animals, pine trees, sage trees, wild flowers, berries, bear scat and the place is full of natural peace and beauty. It’s quiet except for the natural sounds. Yes, take those pills :-))

        Then when you find the “blaze” you probably will need a metal detector and/or a field shovel in your pack. There has been 7 or 8 seasons of weather since Mr. Fenn placed the treasure there. It will very likely be covered up good.

    • Blex and JDA. Both of your descriptions sound good to me. A nice peaceful place with the sound of running water. No, I don’t think the chest is in water. But I do believe that “cold” refers needing to wade in the creek in order to reach the treasure.

      • For example, a small flatish area on one side of a creek with steep inclines surrounding such that the only easy way to reach the spot is to wade across the creek.

      • That may be, Tom B. I’m only talking about the destination location; how one needs to get to is still wide open.

        And I firmly agree with you that it is in a location where it won’t be discovered by accident.

        • My view is that the blaze and treasure is essentially one location; that the treasure is within 20 feet of the blaze. So, I believe that cold, brace, and in the wood describes the blaze/treasure site. What I am looking for is relatively hidden place, in the trees, adjacent to a creek that carries cold mountain runoff water, and that is most easily accessible by wading across the creek.

          • You look for a small source of cold water that descends the mountain to the creek, sorry my question has already walked on the river, or boat ride

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