The Blaze…

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This is the place to discuss the the blaze. What do you think it is? Is it temporary or permanent? Will it be around for a thousand years or doesn’t it matter? Is it easy to spot or difficult? Does the poem tell us what the blaze looks like or what it is?

Nick Lazaredes of SBS-TV’s Dateline in Australia interviewed Forrest in the spring of 2014. Here is Forrest explaining the BLAZE.
http://dalneitzel.com/video/audio/blaze.mp3

437 thoughts on “The Blaze…

  1. Ken, from the previous page, you’ve asked a couple good questions. In regards to “unorthodox,” I’m not sure. From what I read from Cynthia about “The Lure” interview, and the paraphrased response from Mr. Fenn, it makes me wonder if the clues are in order. I’ve been a little confused about this.

    • It does seem from the same interview, that once the blaze is found, the treasure would be understandably found, too. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

      • IMO, when one finds the Blaze, said Searcher is not too far from figuring out the rest of the clues. IMO, At least he/she will soon be on the correct route. IMO, someone shall soon be going in peace and gaining title to the gold! No bluffing.

      • I gathered the same from watching/listening to the latest Q & A . . . once you find the Blaze, the Chest will be there.
        Just my opinion formed from what was spoken in the latest Q & A.

      • Morn pdenver
        What you say is sum what true, but the solves that I have seen and mine personally show that once you have found the blaze you have 95% completed. But as F is and F does it doesn’t hand over the treasure chest, once you’re at the blaze you now have to find the TC. Even if you look quickly down or directly down, it still doesn’t mean that you are holding the TC. This is something that all of us bloggers are guilt of. Reading the poem and making the clues from the poem validate the hints in the books instead of the other way around.
        Best of Luck and Be Safe out there,
        Timothy…IMHO

        • Pdenver. I am in agreement to what you say here. Tim, with that what you say looking quickly down still doesn’t mean one finds the chest ect. In my thinking, I think this has to do with the proximity of the person to the Blaze. If it is seen and looked down from at distance or directly at and below at the blaze location- meaning at arms length sight of blaze . I think one has to be at the exact Blaze location; close enough to be able to touch it. That is how I read into it. I don’t think it is a seen from afar blaze and look down but be at the blaze and look down. Hope I am right in a couple months. imo.

          • Cheers Quakrspecle! Transitioning from guess working the poem to confidence is most daunting with this poem.

          • Alset, you are probably right but I just don’t see the poem giving us enough information to know how close the blaze is. It says if you’ve found the blaze. Finding it could mean seeing it from a distance or close enough to touch it. In any case as long as we find it we should find the chest.

          • Aaron. I agree with what you say. The poem does not say how close it is or the distance of seeing it. I can only go by my thesis of what I think is my solution of the poem. I have an area decided, starting point and finish of the poem, blaze ect. I went from armchair to botg over a week ago but snow prevented me from getting to my search area, oh so close to my spot. From armchair thesis to being there my view/opinion remains the same. My Blaze allocation is still the same. I can reach it easily enough without the snow of course. The options there with it are either right at it, close to it or some distance from it. All those options are available to exorcise in the search area. I will try right at it then close to it ect. For me, all distances at it or from it are applicable. Ether way, I am just not limited to either. Which ,for me, is in good standing to all potential possibilities. My first deduction is right at it. IMO.

          • I see, this must mean your blaze is visible from GE. I know you can’t wait to get back out there and check it. Good luck!

          • Yes , I really want to get back there. Been troubled ever since being blocked by snow lol. It is hard to tell from Canada here if there is snow at certain elevations no matter the tech resources. People here on the blogs are a good snow cover resource info .

          • Aaron, Forgot to mention, no I can’t see the blaze from GE. At least not that I could find. With all other things to the poem I had the area I think, so the blaze would have to have been there somewhere. Being there close to the location I did see what I think is the blaze.

            This below link would be a good Blaze to use if it was hidden in Canada. I wonder who made this blaze.

            https://youtu.be/_N-MVSU7jTs

  2. Dal,

    Just have to say that I am absolutely enthralled by everything on your site. I hope to one day be able to get out there and experience the wild of nature for the adventure and thrill of it all. Thanks for everything. If I never get out there, I have sincerely enjoyed the thoughts and imaginations that have preoccupied my mind while reading on your site. Thank you.

    As for the blaze, I’m wondering based on Fenn’s remarks you posted…it seems as though it could be more natural, and thus something that a regular passerby would not think of as a marking for treasure. That would hold true to his remarks about the need to follow all the previous clues in order to recognize the blaze for what it is. No sense in getting ahead of the other clues. A regular hiker would just go past it.

    It’s fascinating to the point I’m losing sleep!

    • Mikey, “regular” hikers don’t go there. It’s too far off the
      beaten path. There are no “established” human trails near
      where the TC is. FF doesn’t like to stay on “established”
      human trails.

      All my opinion. Yours may differ.

  3. I believe that “the blaze” is something physical. Not a wild fire, but , maybe, an historical marker on the side of a road. Would it be there 1,000 years from now? Maybe. Most things in our modern world is destroyed but what isn’t any ideas?

    • Karen, the blaze is not in a city. Things in cities are too temporary. Think about how things will be a thousand
      years from now.

      FF has said that the TC is not “in close proximaty” to
      a human trail. I believe that a road is a human trail.

      So the blaze isn’t a historical marker on the side of a road.

      All in my opinion. Yours may differ.

      • Imo the blaze could be a burned forest, like the Hayman fire….Not many trails and not many visitors…
        Any thoughts…?

        • Did the fire happen before the poems creation? Would remnants of the fire ,as a visual clue, stand the test of time of a hundred or more years from now? Forests are renewed after a fire and forest burn at some point in its history .So for this to be a specific clue as a probability would diminish quickly over time. Just my two bits .

          • Those stand the test of time, Pdenver, and would qualify as a blaze not because of a blaze being a fire in my opinion .

            If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
            Look quickly down, your quest to cease,

            The remnants of a forest is fire, is that, a post event of a fire. To be a blaze it would have to be ablaze in the moment of the ever now not ever ending.

            Time is very much an element written within the poem in my opinion. I test a clue idea with its relationship with time- the test of time. To me , a forest fire fails this test . For the blaze ( I take it as being what it is (as one would see it in the now forevermore) to be a fire, it would would have to be burning in the now.

          • If you’ve been wise and found the blaze. You’ve = you have= past tense. Been= no longer. Wise=with age comes wisdom. I see no mention of the now in this line. Found=discovered. The blaze=singular.

          • There is very much so a’ now’ time in this sentance. The poem is a map. So, if you have solved all the contiguous clues and have arrived at this correct point and location ,If you’ve been (up until now) wise and (now you have)found the blaze, look quickly down your quest to cease.

            And the word ‘been’ in the sentance structure, means ‘ up until now’ (time)
            Quickly is a word of time meaning also. The whole sentence is themed of time- been( past up until now) found the blaze( past wisdom brought you here and this now) look quickly down( now) your quest to cease ( you are now finished)

          • Hi Als…..here is a thought for you to ponder…..

            You wrote:

            “So for this to be a specific clue as a probability would diminish quickly over time. ”

            I think you are missing an important aspect of any forest fire, and that would be….although the fire is no longer there, and if the scorched land is revitalized and regrown to look like a regular forest, well, the aspect you may not have considered is that the “blaze” would still be listed in the USFS annuls and thus would be something that could be “found”.

            One can find a region where a fire occurred and still be able to utilize it, if it is applicable.

            So in a nutshell, just because the land no longer has the markings that a fire once was there, the fire would have been annotated as occurring and thus, would survive many, many years.

            One would just have to be “wise” to find it.

            ;o)

            Good luck to you!

          • Tim. Pondering your presented thesis ,I have done. Thank you for the response.

            To test a theoretical approach , I measure them against the core guidelines ; those being the poem, stories and FF quotes.

            Therefore:

            Being as the poem has been written and completed;

            1- Could the blaze be a permanent form or object where time and exposure would have a nonimal effect of its form,longevity and be identified easily by reading the poem 100 years from now without special knowledge and research ?

            2- Could the blaze be a one time forest conflagration that happened before or during the time the pòem was written. Therefore ,it was written into the poem as a clue and could also be able to easily be identified as a clue 100 years from now without special knowledge and research?

            Words have ‘time’ stamped within their meaning.

            A fire burning in the now is something a blaze . A fire is not a blaze when it is no longer burning for in this now it becomes ‘ was a blaze’- an area scorched from when it was a blaze.

            So, in the poem, we are to be wise and look quickly down when we find the blaze. The word blaze in the poem means to me ,’as what it( the blaze) looks now is the same as when he wrote the poem and will 100 years from now.’.A blaze meaning , refering to meaning a fire ,is a now time; a current event time descriptive word of a now event. Looking at an area after a blazing fire happened , we would not say ‘ look at that blaze!

            I think as simply as possible first, secondary. is the complex analysis of the simplicity of it.

            This is my opinion.

            Cheers!

          • Thanks for taking the time to respond.

            “Over that hill was where the fire was. All you can see now is what is left of the blaze.”

            Therefore, the remnants of the fire can still be considered a “blaze”.

            noun
            1.
            a spot or mark made on a tree, as by painting or notching or by chipping away a piece of the bark, to indicate a trail or boundary.
            2.
            a white area down the center of the face of a horse, cow, etc.
            verb (used with object), blazed, blazing.
            3.
            to mark with blazes:
            to blaze a trail.
            4.
            to lead in forming or finding (a new method, course, etc.):
            His research in rocketry blazed the way for space travel.

            **************

            verb (used with object), blazed, blazing.
            1.
            to make known; proclaim; publish:
            Headlines blazed the shocking news.

            **************

            “I watched them blaze and blaze and remember thinking how warm it was, how light, on the freezing Saturnian January night.”
            http://www.dictionary.com/browse/blaze?s=t

            *************
            verb (transitive)
            3.
            to indicate or mark (a tree, path, etc) with a blaze

            – “with a blaze”

            :o)

          • Tim,
            Quote from your response:

            “Over that hill was where the fire was. All you can see now is what is left of the blaze.”
            Therefore, the remnants of the fire can still be considered a “blaze”. End quote.

            I have already spoke to this quote in my earlier writ, so just reread my prior response to that again.

            In short, your quote is referring to a past reference of a blaze that was a fire. In the poem he writes The Blaze not Was a Blaze nor a reference to a past presents of such. If it was a flare stack at gas plant seen from a distance when in the area I could relate it being a Blaze as a fire in the poem. Maybe there is a gas plant visible from the hide site. The clues in the poem are were chosen for their longevity constance. I don’t think it is something that would be a point to cause one to research a history of the spot in order to establish a clue. Not for the blaze anyway. How can you just walk with the poem as a map to the spot. What, you have to stop when you see a burnt reminant . Log into google about the spot for historical fires there. Then cross reference timelines to see if FF might be referring to these burnt remnants at this spot for a blaze that is no longer The Blaze of fire?

            So, let’s imagine that you have solved all clues correctly up to the now and you reach your Blaze of a former 100 or 1000 or more hectare fire that happened over 15 years ago. Now look quickly down.

            Good luck to you. LOL.

            Good opinion challenge, thanks.

            Cheers!

          • Hey Als….just an FYI…

            I don’t prescribe to the fire blaze scenario.

            I personally think the f scribes a mark on a tree. There is another way that he could have done it, based upon the geology of the landscape, but I am not willing to reveal that method yet.

            ” now I’m weak.” makes me feel like he created the blaze.

            Cheers!

          • Ya, the fire scenario as being the blaze would never get me past a guessing of any of what the clues are on site or even if I thought I had the right site.The blaze really solidifies your all other clues imo. There are many types of things that can be blazes and many of each type possible to recognize as such in any area. FF kind of said this in a sort of way imo, when he said ( paraphrasing) there are 10 billion blazes out there. In my area I could see there are 2 exactly of the same in my concept.But only one is the one.They are located in the same area but quite a distance away from my spot on site. There can be multiple ones to notice but only one is the one. Having the rest of the clues that brought me to the blaze, made it so I could be more certain which one is more likely. In my opinion in light of this, the blaze is very important for bringing all the clues together from guessing to confidence for my solve. Kind of liken the blaze as being ‘checkmate’ for the solve.

          • Alsetenash;

            I think that your interpretation of these words is far too simplistic. I think that you need to look at deeper meanings of words like quickly.

            I do agree that one of the interpretations is time related, but is just one interpretation enough? I think maybe not. Just misin’ JDA

          • JDA . Too simplistic? Simplistic , yes, but too simplistic? Interesting point of view . Quickly is a reference to speed and speed is measured by time- go figured.

            I am of the opinion that there are 3 perspective levels of difficulty present in the poem. Each level is solvable from in each perspective. The child, the redneck and the architect . Just to give labels to the levels. I have my solve checked and balanced in all 3 levels. I only have one blaze, though only having one, isn’t being overly simplistic imo.

          • Al;

            You may very well be right. I am just offering us things to think about. You just may have the right analysis, I I may be full of it – Time shall tell I guess. JDA

          • It’s all good JDA, it is the point of posting here. I scrutinize my own ideas rather stringently. I must eliminate all things to chance in my solution. I welcome any challenge to my thoughts and ideas.

          • @ charlie – from a previouos blog post in a different forum….you wrote:

            “charlie commented on Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt….
            in response to AkB Treasure Hunter:

            There is only one blaze, if you were to bet that “THE” blaze was made up of multiple things, then I would say “Jake, don’t take that be.” But, you are saying there are multiple blazes, so I say, “Jake, clean them out.” “Take the bet”
            If you are taking the road of, a blaze points the way, then, with “YOUR” definition of a blaze there may be multiple blazes. We are not looking for your definition of the blaze, we are looking for Fenn’s. He has said too many times ,”THE” blaze, “a” blaze, meaning one. Jake has tried to tell you this, with no prevail. It seems you need “ALL” the quotes from f to finally convince you, do your own research. How really important is the blaze anyway when f has been asked and said,” Forrest, what is the minimum number of clues that we need to solve to find the treasure, assuming that we follow the clues in order?
            Just one, the last one. Unless the blaze is the last clue, which it isn’t from another of his quotes, Can’t start in the middle, etc…Your multiple blazes theory falls apart.
            How many clues take up this multiple blaze theory?
            It’s either one, the last one which it cannot be, or it’s some of the earlier clues, which means really nothing.
            ONE blaze!!!!!!!!’

            ********************

            If one were to utilize the poem…..”if you’ve been wise and found the blaze”

            It appears that the poem is only referencing one blaze also.

            Cheers!

          • Yep, imo there is only one blaze and it is FF’s chosen one. There can be many blazes seen for as many as there are definitions for blazes. There is but one specific one for FF on the map in his poem. How can a person be confident they have a match prior to not having found the chest?

          • Edit correction:

            I meant ‘ How can a person be confident of a match without yet having found the chest’.

          • I think you mean to say, How can person be certain they have found the correct one without first finding the tc? I don’t think that’s plausible imo due to ff’s comments over the years but that may prove otherwise.
            I’ve been fully confident and sure in every attempt I’ve made to find the tc as it is expensive for me to go and even look I wouldn’t of even bothered if I wasn’t fully confident in that location.
            It’s easy for me to see why ff can say the finder would arrive at the tc by no mistake and fully confident he/she had done so correctly because it won’t be stumbled upon accidentally and the finder will have moved in complete confidence verifying each $tep in the manner ff describes.

          • Quoting you aMp- “I think you mean to say, How can person be certain they have found the correct one without first finding the tc?”

            Yes, that is what I meant as correct one referring to the blaze.
            Yes, the many of confidence has heard the howls of wolves to the never ending of the days .

            I guess ones confidence can be measured by their past history of success in confidence ;proving thereof having good reason to be confident of their confidence. I have a picture that gives me confidence, not of the chest but of the camouflage.

          • Hi JDA – Had to scroll up a bit to find a place to comment.

            “I think that your interpretation of these words is far too simplistic. I think that you need to look at deeper meanings of words like quickly.”

            IMO, the meanings, definitions, and interpretations of words do not matter. That is unless you aren’t familiar with English. If I’m wrong about this, Jake will eat his hat.

            On a side note, if you are searching for the treasure chest in a place that is still covered in snow, you may want to try another approach. IMO, Indulgence hasn’t been covered by snow for several months.

            Please don’t send your family into places where it could be dangerous. You always preach safety so please think about this.

  4. I think the blaze is permanent for all intents and purposes, was not placed by Forrest but rather chosen by him, cannot be moved, and can be found on a map. But I don’t think the treasure is where the blaze is, which I know goes against what most people get from the poem.

      • I agree fully with Zap. I don’t think the blaze is where the treasure rests. I almost wonder if WWWH is also a blaze, and the start is easily confused by the end.

      • Dal,
        I agree with you, once you establish where the blaze is and I think it’s beautiful and nature at its best!
        That’s my opinion, thanks Dal your great!
        Dal, will you look again for the chest?
        Best regards, Martha

    • After blaze it is ‘ look quickly down your quest to cease’. I tend to think it is pretty much at the blaze in my interpretation imo . If I am wrong I best bring a parashute lol. IMO.

      • I think you will see marvell gaze first. The blaze is deceptive but natural. Landscape. I also think it has something to do with Eric Sloane. See ff, and you may see marvell gaze, Figure out Eric Sloane, and you’ll know where.
        Dal, remember that pic I sent you? That was marvell gaze. Fold that pic onto itself at 50% opacity, that is the blaze. Deceptive…

    • zaphod, no paper map (including topo maps) shows the blaze.
      But google earth does, if you zoom far enough. The TC
      is about 200 feet from the blaze, substantially “below” it.

      All my opinion. Yours may differ.

    • If the chest can potentially be buried/concealed over time, could the blaze eventually be as well?

      And I thought somebody mentioned that during the Q&A after the premiere of “The Lure” that Forrest insinuated in one of his responses that the chest and the blaze were in very close proximity to one another and that it would be difficult to find the blaze and not the chest. Am I remembering this correctly?

      • Hi Blex,

        “If the chest can potentially be buried/concealed over time, could the blaze eventually be as well?”

        Well, I think most searchers believe the chest is ~already~ concealed in some fashion if not buried. And if you are a searcher that favors any location within 500 miles of Yellowstone, then EVERY clue’s physical location could become buried in ash when the Yellowstone super-volcano next erupts (quite unlikely in the next century). But, barring such a catastrophic event, I do not believe the blaze is in any danger of becoming buried.

        “And I thought somebody mentioned that during the Q&A after the premiere of “The Lure” that Forrest insinuated in one of his responses that the chest and the blaze were in very close proximity to one another and that it would be difficult to find the blaze and not the chest. Am I remembering this correctly?”

        I haven’t seen a confirmed transcript, but I don’t think Forrest “insinuated” anything about the proximity/proximaty of the chest to the blaze. People may have ~inferred~ it based on an erroneous conclusion. Just as an example, suppose the blaze was a lighthouse (obviously not in our case since all of our four states are land-locked). It may not be the location of the lighthouse that is relevant so much as the places it illuminates. Wouldn’t you agree in this case that the blaze and the chest could be quite distant from one another?

        • Zap, in your lighthouse example I agree that yes the blaze could be quite distant from the chest. However, using just the text of the poem, all we have to go on is “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down your quest to cease”. The only manner in which I could envision the blaze and chest being of some distance apart is if the blaze were high above at the brink of a precipice, which does not sound like an area where I would be comfortable to have children playing.

          I can’t remember who posted the insinuation that Forrest was saying after the Lure interview. It might have been Cynthia on the most recently archived Odds n’ Ends page? I want to say it was something along the lines of Forrest stating that he could not imagine someone finding the blaze and not finding the chest. Anyone know? Did I dream this?

          • Blex…yes you dreamed that…
            What Forrest actually said was:
            “I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.”

            This is from Scrapbook Seventy-eight.

            Cynthia quoted this statement by Forrest and than expressed her opinion about the relationship between the blaze and the chest…
            Look down a bit to the comment from Cynthia I think you are remembering…

          • Ah, my mistake. Chalk that one up to hearing what I thought was a new Forrest quote being shared secondhand.

          • Hi Blex, I’d just stick to what you know FF actually said.

            With as many searchers out here, words will get skewed. I’ve done it myself….inadvertently, but tried to keep my meaning intact.

          • LOL, thanks for the redundant finger-wagging, Tim. It inspired me to go back through the posts and discover that I wasn’t dreaming about this after all.

            The initial post I was remembering was Cynthia’s statement here in the Odds n’ Ends Archive #26 (May 19th, 2017; 2:42 PM): http://dalneitzel.com/2017/05/03/odds-n-ends-about-fenns-treasure-hunt-26/

            There is another post from Cynthia a bit further down on this page (May 22, 2017; 4:03 PM) in which she references SB78 (per Dal’s comment above) and goes on to say that Forrest said something about the blaze and treasure being in the same close proximity TWICE during the Q&A. She said the she searched through her recorded bits, but did not have it on record in any of her excerpts.

            This post-screening interview with Forrest after “The Lure” is a gray area at this point in “The Gospel book of Forrest Fenn Quotes” because Toby took down the full version of the interview at Forrest’s request and we only have a few snippets that Cynthia posted. But we also have Cynthia’s personal account from her memory after attending the event, which is secondhand, but I’m willing to consider as trustworthy unless it’s proven wrong, as it’s currently the best information to go off of. IMO, Cynthia seems convincingly emphatic about what she remembers hearing Forrest say during the interview.

            Forrest seems to be very good at self-policing himself when he makes statements to individuals or small groups about the treasure location, in that he is quick to follow up and share those statements to the general public. Like when he made a point to announce WWWH is not at a dam after letting that clue slip in a conversation with a searcher.

            We can debate about how reliable Cynthia’s memory is, but that won’t get us anywhere. Why doesn’t someone simply ask Forrest via email or on the MW site if this is indeed something he said at the Lure interview, and he can confirm or deny it right away to put this issue to bed? Or maybe Toby can give us some confirmation since he still presumably has the full version of the video?

            At the moment, I’m sticking to my guns on this one and siding with Cynthia’s secondhand account. It doesn’t really make a difference to my solve; I’ve always thought that the blaze and the chest were in very close proximity and this doesn’t change anything except give me a little extra confirmation. Definitively finding out if this is an actual Forrest quote will only bring more searchers closer towards my line of thinking, which could give me an added amount of competition, so why should I care? I guess I just don’t like getting unjustifiably called out for spreading misinformation.

            One could just as easily make the decision to consider Cynthia’s memory to be unreliable and pay no heed to what she says she remembers hearing from Forrest, and one would be no better or worse off in their quest for the Treasure.

            Dash off into the weeds in whatever direction tickles your fancy, and I’ll do likewise.

          • Hi Blex…no “finger wagging”, it just isn’t my cup of tea to rely on someone else to give me information that cannot be completely confirmed.

            I’ll utilize FF and what he says and thinks to make all my decisions.

            He is the one who created the puzzle, not Cynthia.

            FYI – I too have a solve with “A BLAZE that is in close proximity” to what I think is the final location of the TC. Does that make yours more accurate? We won’t know until we have the chest in our possession, huh?

            IMO – Cynthia has great and good intention of her postings….but clearly, it was not a complete interview – you even said so yourself.

            How can you come to a complete picture, if you don’t have complete information.

            Yeah…like “zap” thinks….I’m insane. Maybe we need to be insane to complete the task set in front of us? :o)

            IMO…I thought the interview with the director was more enlightening…..in the least…he gave a personal observation of what the searchers feel and think. They are legion and he sees it.

            IMO – FF will only repeat things he has already said in the past, and even in the small snippets of the interview that is available to those of us who were not there…..they are just rehashed words from a previous time.

            I do admit though…..FF did say a couple of things that had caught my eye, and it seemed to be so direct in the action we are to take, I’ve noted it.

            Good luck to you.

    • zap – im with you – I think the blaze is permanent and I also don’t think the treasure is where the blaze is

      • To me it sounds like that if you are following the clues and walking from the correct direction that as soon as the blaze becomes visible to you then you just look down and there it is.

    • From SB78 June 25, 2014: He lists 9 statements.
      “Second, I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.” This statement by Fenn almost 3 years ago supports his recent statements at The Lure Q&A where he said TWICE, “If you find the blaze (the correct one from following the correct first clue), you will find the treasure.” “The treasure is at the blaze.” I can’t wait to receive the transcription of his words so we ALL know exactly what he said. From his 12 foot statement 3 years ago, it seems the treasure chest is at a maximum distance of 12 feet from the blaze. I suspect it is even closer, albeit “hidden”. If you know to look for something “hidden” at the blaze, you will find it! I’ll let you know at Fennboree…Ha Ha…18 more days…the pressure is huge. Would someone please find it and bring it with you?!

      • Oh, and remember:
        From Forrest Gets Mail -13 from the middle school class posted hod 2/8/2017
        What is Blaze? “Anything that stands out.”

        Questions with Fenn: Archive 1
        5/28/2014
        http://mysteriouswritings.com/questions-…archive-1/

        Is the Blaze one single object? ~ Scout Around
        In a word – Yes….

        The Nine Clues…….Part Thirtyone
        September 26, 2014
        http://dalneitzel.com/2014/09/22/the-nine-clues-8/

        forrestfenn on September 26, 2014 at 4:06 pm said:
        I had an enjoyably visit with Tom and his brother at the Downtown Subscription Coffee Shop in Santa Fe. They seemed like nice guys and avid treasure hunters. But there is confusion somewhere. While it’s not impossible to remove the blaze it isn’t feasible to try, and I am certain it’s still there.

        Featured Question and Weekly Words from Forrest: Which Direction?
        April 29, 2016
        http://mysteriouswritings.com/featured-q…direction/
        Mr. Fenn,
        Which direction does the Blaze face? North, South, East or West? Curious. Foxy
        I didn’t take a radial off of the blaze Foxy. I’m thinking it may not be any of those directions. F.

        IMO, the blaze is a “mark” on something that stands the test of time so not on the side of a tree. Maybe a mark or a rough “running man” figure he chiseled on top a boulder (so it’s not directional) when he visited this special place the first time which was before 1988. It has to be at the same place where he wanted to die, assuming the treasure chest is at the blaze as stated at the Q&A and various other places like in SB78.

        • “In a word – Yes”

          Yes, a word in the poem & I don’t think its the “blaze”
          I think it’s “wise”.

          Those chips I loved.

          • Jake, I think your absolutely
            Right!
            WISE!
            I took off
            May 7th, because I like the number 7, I however was not wise,
            The park I went to
            Was.closed! I was
            Livid,
            Seasonal close. It
            Opens May 15!
            I rushed
            In like Thor!
            I should have hammer
            Though the gates, I didn’t, I knew where that would have landed me!!
            I didn’t do enough
            Research
            Second try, maybe the 3 attempt
            Will be the 7!
            I can’t stand driving across
            Kansas,
            Now I know why
            Dorthy
            Left Kansas!
            I wish I wasn’t
            So hyper,
            Just do it
            Has been my motto,
            Always,
            It makes
            Life more
            Interesting!!
            Martha

          • Martha,
            It’s still too early for most of the Rocky’s now.
            Be patient & wait till the snow melts.

            Where was your destination after going through Kansas?
            Colorado?

          • Jake the destination was Wyoming
            The cowboy
            State!
            Fenn’s
            Always
            Has been
            a cowboy,
            Jake
            Maybe
            You
            Might
            Want to
            Hear my
            Opinion,
            If so let’s
            Set up a
            Date
            Via…
            Email.
            Singing seriously,
            Martha

        • Cynthia, your posting has some important
          info. I suggest you study it over and over
          a bunch of times. Good luck to you.

  5. I often look at the blaze like a maze holding the last few clues. If you don’t go through the maze correctly by following the last few clues then you will not find how it is hidden at the blaze. Only one path will lead you there, all IMO of course.

  6. The Poem says “found the blaze” so what if you have to discover it rather than just see it?
    Having to find a hidden blaze would add a proper amount of difficulty, and then you look quickly down for the hiding place of the chest.
    I worked with this idea on my search last year, obviously to no avail, but haven’t given up on the idea.

    Here is a great actor playing a great role, searching for gold. And I feel just like that, I keep finding Arch Stanton, but I am so so close.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubVc2MQwMkg

    • Meadowlark, how do you figure you are “so so close”?

      The blaze isn’t “hidden”, in the ordinary sense of that word.

      The blaze can be seen, even from miles away.

      The searcher(s) that were within about 500 feet of it didn’t
      follow the poem’s clue(s) correctly. This is also true for
      the searcher(s) that were within about 200 feet. These folks, in their solves, did well enough to favorably impress me — and I’m not easily favorably impressed (I admit).
      But the solvers apparently missed an important part of the poem, and were unable to identify/find the blaze.

      FF has told us that it’s risky to discount any word. I don’t
      think counting clues specifically helps much, as long as
      EVERY WORD of the poem is carefully considered, and
      analyzed to the nth degree, in EXCRUCIATING detail! No
      wonder it took FF 15 years to bring such a BRILLIANT
      poem to this degree of polish!

      I have been preaching for a long time that searchers
      should use a dictionary to look up common words that
      we think we already well know. I have also been preaching
      that searchers should also show the poem to a child (or preferably several children, separately). So I’m not specifically picking on you. You should do these things.

      Good luck in your solving and searching.

      The above is all my opinion. Yours may differ.

      • I’ve got JCM’s comment files and I don’t think there is any difference between the folks who have been 500 ft from the treasure and those who have been 200 ft. He just honed in over time on a more accurate reporting of the distance from TC to nearest common trail. I don’t know how he could identify that a singular male (possibly female with him) was closest? This is a hang up for me: I’m counting on the 200ft folks having been no closer than the 500 ft folks.

        • DWRock: for what it’s worth, I think hundreds of thousands of people if not millions have been within 500′ of the treasure and had no clue (though most of these were not searchers).

      • [quote]
        “The blaze can be seen, even from miles away.
        . . . The above is all my opinion. Yours may differ.”
        [unquote]

        I’m gnawing on this . . . thanks, tighterfocus! 😉

    • Meadowlark: one of my favorite scenes from one of my favorite movies! Ennio Morricone’s score is perfecty matched and unforgettable. But which great actor (singular) were you referring to? All 3 — the good, the bad, and the ugly — are splendid actors, though I assume you meant Clint. 😉 It would not surprise me if Forrest has met Mr. Eastwood — seems like he’s met everyone else!

  7. And that is Forrest, Clint, firing the canon, dropping hints.

    I go back in a couple of months, and hopefully I understand the blaze this time.

    • I suggest that you finish solving the poem — including learning
      what and where the blaze is — before heading out on your
      next BOTG search hike. This can be done from home, if
      you think logically and carefully. But my solve took about
      300 hours, so don’t think it’s easy, okay? Things like the
      movie to which you refer (which is one of my all-time
      favorites, by the way) are just distractions. Just like most of
      the postings on these forums about the hunt. Too many
      of the folks are just looking for people to talk to, instead of focusing on solving the poem and finding the TC.

      All IMO.

      • I like talking with other people tighter…..but I also want to contribute tot he blog.

        Do you think I have achieved these to points?

    • Tighterfocus: in my opinion if you only spent 300 hours on your solution, it’s almost certainly wrong, or at best incomplete. Again in my opinion, that is not enough time to figure out the blaze.

  8. Found the blaze….past tense.
    I think it may take several trips to find a way to get from the blaze to the chest.
    Just my opinion.

    • That doesn’t sound precise to me… I mean what’s the point of following anything if we still need to figure out, on our own, how to get from blaze to the chest by making many trips to do so?

        • Well, for one thing, I think the whole poem is past tense. The start of stanza two uses where instead of at… Which might imply where in a time period or even over time, other than the present time period.

          The other factor I consider is the comment… Could have written the poem before hiding the chest… Which also might refer to time in the past for the clues or how we might need to look at the clues referring to the past as well as the present and even into the future.

          • Interesting..
            I agree Seeker, but what happens if you arrive at the blaze and look quickly down, you’re actually looking down the edge of the canyon.
            Do we tarry scant down the edge or find another way around?

          • Eaglesabound,

            I think tarry scant and gaze are instructions, just like, look quickly down. Many searchers think fenn is telling them to hurry up and get out of there with the chest, but I don’t adhere to this thought. Why tells us to plan two trips [ retrieving the chest ] and able to walk several miles, if there’s a big hurry or worry?

            I think we need to see something unfold..linger.. a short time.. and at a specific place, and this would reveal the location of the chest.

            Look quickly down, seems to be an action specifically for tarry scant with marvel gaze… This imo, is the only present tense in the poem, because we have “found” the blaze [marker or pointer] to be use. But that doesn’t mean we can utilize it right then and there. [and might involve the planning aspect of the solve]

            This line of thinking falls to the comment that; in the year 3009 it will be harder to find the chest… the RM’s are still moving.
            So what would movement of the land cause something to knock out of wack at the location of the chest?

            In theory, some kinda alignment… shadow, beam of light, triangulation, line of sights or two objects to line up [ like a rifle barrel front and rear sights -which could be a single object with two points]

            Where we go from there is another thing… we could actually go up to the chest, but we need to look down at something first.

            I also think stanza 6 might tell us time of day to be at the blaze and where the blaze point’s to [ in general ] and we wait for the correct moment.
            I just don’t know if this occurs all the time or only certain times throughout the year. { but I do have a guess on that ].

            lol… now all I need to figure out is, that dang place to start.

          • Thanks Seeker, but that sure sounds like a billion to one that you would be in the right place at the right time of day, year, etc…
            It also seems contrary to Fenn’s most recent comment about the blaze.
            It sounds good though!! Lol
            IMO of course…

          • Eagleabound,
            Just thoughts…
            but is it not the same chance we all have in solving the poem?
            With some logic… I can come up with a month, time of day, and even an area of possibility to look for, and all in the general sense… No 2:42 type time.
            There needs to be an effort on the searchers part, that involves the planning part of the solve. That’s about as close as I can say without yelling the [possible] answer to the theory.

            It’s all about the certainty beforehand approach to analyzing a complete solution.

          • Factor in even a 2:1 ratio of the unknown into each possibility of your solutions and you wind up standing still looking puzzled. Move towards the Unknown, with BOTG and tread lightly, I think the treasures will be right there.

          • Oyyy, Seeker. I agree with everything you said. And yes, for me, the 6th stanza gives you a time. The last line.
            For me, it’s not from the blaze, but close by you need to have a 7′ “Y” shaped stick, standing upright, at that time and date. Sun’s elevation, shadow, thing.
            I’ll email you soon, have to share something found about that wheel idea.

        • eaglesabound, you are doing some good
          thinking. FF was EXTREMELY careful when
          perfecting his poem over 15 years. .

          You’re getting (kinda) warm, thinking about tense. It is very important. I don’t want to say too much here, but “wise” is a very important word. It’s on my list of candidate words, any of which may be the “word that
          is key”.

          My list contains about 5 words, all of which are very important to a correct solve.

          All IMO.

        • It’s important that FF has put it EXACTLY like
          he did. Please trust me on this. I know whereof
          I speak. But if I explain it in more detail at this
          time, it might put “competition” closer to a good
          solve, and I want to be the searcher who finds
          the TC before “the competition”. Good luck
          in your solving and searching. Please
          emphasize safety in the Rockies.

        • Thank you for the link, SL. After reading this, “hidden in plain sight” comes to mind, and wonder if the treasure chest is hidden the same way. Sometimes, the best way to hide things is to put it right under our nose.

        • good find SL, to me, Eric Sloane has something to do with the blaze. The fact that he wrote this book, with that title, I’ll just say good find and thanks.

        • Thanks for the link, Eric sloane was ahead of his time!!
          Can you imagine 5 miles of painting’s/books/5 wife’s, talk about fast!!
          Pushing it to the limit,geez!
          Martha

    • The blaze is pretty close to the chest (say, about 200 ft). One (longish) day of hiking, searching, and returning to one’s vehicle should be sufficient with a correct solve of
      the poem. It’s not a real short hike, and it’s kinda
      strenuous (thin air), on rocky (but not generally steep) ground. Expecting to take several BOTG search hikes is probably realistic. Better do it kinda soon, though,
      because I think the TC will be found in the summer of
      2017. Stay tuned for news of this, including a slow
      release of info about the solve, and the location of the
      TC.

      All IMO.

  9. I’m of the opinion that people put too much stock into finding ‘the blaze’. Seems like the purpose of the blaze is a little bit of subterfuge to distract from other more important things. So I believe that it’s simply the trail, or the combination of all the aforementioned clues.

    In other words, ‘If you’ve been wise and found the trail’.

  10. Peloquin, that was my question to all on here. Do most people believe that the blaze is an object and not a trail or something that marks a trail?

    • Carolyn, I find it hard to believe that the blaze would be a trail if there are no human trails within close proximity. An animal trail perhaps? What other type of trail could there be?

      I believe the trail is an object and it doesn’t necessarily have to be close to the TC but you must be able to see it from the TC.

      • I’m of the opinion human traits to be considered a trail of sorts, they are left behind and meant to be followed. How that helps my or anyone else’s solve is beyond me. Cheers

        • For me I think this way: If all human activity at the area halted today.In 100 years from now what would stand the test of time to identify that there had been a civilization there? I think by example of the Maya civilization- what remains intact to this day-many forms of blaze ideas? Just my method of thinking.

          • aMp,
            If this were the blaze, how do we locate the chest?
            One thought would be at the base, top of the object [cross] which I doubt many could make it to those points.
            Or
            at a specific point of view. But now the question is, where would that be? I have seen pics of this cross taken from many angles and locations… how do we figure that out? To have found the blaze and look quickly down, you quest to cease in a 10″sq plot of land.

            Just curious.

          • Personally, I’d start at an airport and go shopping for art or local attractions and see if that led to anything interesting. Then I’d grab a bite at the soup line and wait in line for a bunk because I’d of spent my last dime getting there and for me now it’s just to far too walk.

          • A correct solve of the poem hardly
            relies on civilization, except by virtue
            of the poem and a “good map”.

            IMO.

          • So tighter…..I take it you are not in my camp with “the edge of civilization” as a starting point, huh?

            :o)

  11. For me there are a few variables of the blaze that drastically changes how the rest of the poem plays out.
    1.the size of the blaze(example: if the blaze is very small such as the size of a door or smaller than odds are your clues end there but if your blaze is the size of a mountain then there would be more clues after.
    2.how far the blaze is once it is found.(example: if you come around a corner and the blaze is immediately in front of you or if the blaze can be seen from afar)

    • Hey Count, those same points on the variables have baffled me as well…the only thing I keep wondering is that whoever finds the chest may somehow decipher the hints and clues well enough to know what they are looking for before they get there. Perhaps the other clues hint as to what the blaze is as well?

      My kids and I often play the game “I’m thinking of an animal” in the car. The one guessing always starts broad and tends to narrow. Often a first guess is something like is it a mammal? Or is it as big as a regular house cat? Does it have fur? Does it live in the forest? I just wish someone could have asked Forrest a size question on the blaze….

      • There was a question about, could the blaze be moved… Don’t have the time to look it up… but you shouldn’t have too much trouble locating the Q&A.

      • Here is the comment Seeker is referencing…

        I had an enjoyably visit with Tom and his brother at the Downtown Subscription Coffee Shop in Santa Fe. They seemed like nice guys and avid treasure hunters. But there is confusion somewhere. While it’s not impossible to remove the blaze it isn’t feasible to try, and I am certain it’s still there.
        http://dalneitzel.com/2014/09/22/the-nine-clues-8/#comment-53358

        I currently have 19 different comments from f taking about or referencing the blaze in my collection, so he has said a few things about it over the years.

      • I’ve been thinking for awhile now that the blaze is something old and all of the clues are either new or old, any comments about this?

  12. I think you will know the blaze when you get to it. Something distinguishable that you can’t miss and the word “weak” also meaning barely visible i think means the treasure is barely visible.

    • Mosby123. I agree, ” barely visible’, but somewhat visible . I think tired and weak is elevation symptoms lol. For me at least lol. IMO. I agree you will know the blaze when you see it, the poem walks to it like a map. IMO

    • You can’t “get to” the blaze, unless you are quite a
      mountaineer. The TC is below the blaze. All IMO.

    • Good possibility mosby. While the blaze is conspicuous the hiding place is probably not. To me “tarry scant” means that it could be in a small and dark place.

  13. I think that look quickly down means its not far from there but continue looking till you get to the end – terry scant with marvel gaze –

  14. Remember, Forrest said: “While it’s not impossible to remove the blaze it isn’t feasible to try, and I am certain it’s still there.”

    • What isn’t even feasible to try to remove? Almost anything on Earth is at least feasible to remove. Perhaps the blaze is the sun. Forrest could confidently say it’s still there.

    • Charlie,

      The August 21, total solar eclipse of the Sun should be of certain interest to you as well. I’ve no doubt that The Flyer is already aware of the specifics and is……….intrigued… as we are. I concur with all that Martha has “shared about this significant event!

      Wyoming could well be significant. ( Several reasons ) I’m fairly certain that you will be in agreement)

      BTW…Were you able to link to the Eric Sloane reference I gave to his book about, and obvious interest of Camouflage? No doubt in my mind it will prove a major role.

      I hope you’ll be able to glean other valuable insights from the following architectural/landscape link as well. (The Flyer has ‘much’ in common with Capability Brown, IMO)

      https://www.visitengland.com/short-breaks-england/english-gardens/capability-brown-gardens

      Mr. Brown also created a unique place in the UK, (Adventure Animal Safari), geared towards his love of children.

      Additionally, I’m in appreciation for the keen knowledge you’ve provided regarding the importance of numbers!

      SL – A lifepath # 9

        • Hi SL — as far as I can tell, Native Americans don’t practice numerology in the way that I’ve been poo-pooing (the reduction of two-digit or greater integers into a single integer through repeated addition, which is mathematical silliness). It would not surprise me at all if they had favored integers, just as Christians have a fondness for 3’s and 7’s. (A bit amusing if Native Americans favor 4, given that the Chinese abhor that number because it is a homonym for the word “death”. Many neighborhoods in China are probably as devoid of addresses with 4’s in them as U.S. elevators are without 13’s.)

          But to get back to the subject of the blaze, we were pondering methods of extracting numbers from the poem and potentially converting those into either distances (e.g. paces) or perhaps coordinates. This is the whole reason that numerology even came up, and here’s why it’s a horrible system upon which to pass unambiguous information: it is not 1-to-1. Z ends up being the same as Q or H: they all reduce to 8. And zero cannot be encoded, which is perhaps the greatest flaw.

          The question searchers should be asking themselves is how can Forrest use the poem to navigate us to a very specific, but nondescript spot (let’s say within 15 feet) that random people would be extremely unlikely to go? Remember, Forrest thought of everything, so he’s not going to depend on non-permanent objects like trees.

          • Zap,

            I brought the number ‘4’ into the discussion due to the fact that from number 4… was derived the symbolic value of the number ’40.’
            (4+0=4).

            In any event, I think it’s what The Flyer considers relevant.

            Your thoughts are appreciated.

  15. How about this? You’re hiking along a cliff edge/canyon edge/slope, see the blaze (quest to cease may be a hint about where you are; maybe at a cuesta). You look down immediately to see a lower observation point or area. You then tarry scant by walking down a short trail to this lower observation (marvel gaze) point. MG may be a description of the name of the point, or short trail. Just an idea. (I envision a Yellowstone Falls kind of thing, although of course the TC is not there.) Go in peace could be a hint about where, off that lower observation point, the TC actually is.

    I’m heading out for 3 weeks of BOTG on Weds. (spots in YNP, So MT, WY, and CO)–love the Rockies. If anyone needs me to check anything out for them, please let me know! We’re (my husband and I) making a bunch of stops, and if we’re going anywhere near where you want us to check, we’d be happy to.

    Although I don’t feel the chest is actually inside YNP (I just can’t wrap my head around him sending families, and people with no wilderness experience, to a place with so many grizzlies–I’ve “met” them before!!), it is a land of blazes.

    • I’ve seen one or two or several hundred-thousand of those before.

      The search for the blaze is not like finding a needle in a haystack; it’s like finding a needle in a needlestack. That’s why the poem needs to be followed in order, IMO.

      • Blex,
        I truly believe the blaze is in the poem in the same line.

        “I mean there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues”

        I believe there are a couple of Q’s about the blaze being a word in the poem that he didn’t want to answer but did on MW’s.

        I will have to research & hop you will to.

        • Yeah, share the link if you can find it. That doesn’t sound familiar to me, but I’m catching up and learning new things about the Chase all the time. Will see what I can dig up too.

          • Has anyone seen or mentioned the blaze to you? ~Stephanie

            Thanks Stephanie for the questions. I have read them several times very carefully. They appear subtle on the surface but they aren’t. A yes or no to either question would give too much away, so I’ll pass. Sorry, and I’m aware that some searchers will pick me apart for this answer.f

            I’m sure Dal will kick my but for this but I think we should all know where when & who.
            We already know why.

          • When I was at Pikes Peak, Imogene, (and other places as well) they had those installed binocular things that kind of look like giant parking meters where you pay a quarter or whatever to look through…

            I could see them being somehow involved. Aka if you point it towards the sun look quickly down your quest will ceaas, but tarry scant with marvel gaze until its below the horizon and won’t burn your retinas out across and you could see the chest (?)

            Would be a weird mix of being able to predetermine as well as not. Certainly one could be aware of the binocular machine from home but would need to be BOTG to actually see through them. Not saying its the exact case just an example of how certain versions of a blaze may be difficult to explain and, like binoculars and the sun, could be relative.

    • Wow, Jake that’s exactly what I know….in my mind of course!
      What better place for a blaze, Mr. Fenn said Mrs. Fenn was his Rock and motar!
      Also, remember what he said about Millay’s, she was something else! Incredibly intelligent, talented, and she had to be responsible at the age of 4, her mother was something else also, but one thing is for sure you’ll never find an illerate Jew!
      Talk about DNA!

        • I concur. In “Too Far To Walk,” beginning on page 167, “lessons from bella abzug,” I sure would have loved to have seen that conversation in person.

          • Yeah that sounded like a funny conversation. I just read that chapter last night coincidentally.

          • Maybe the drinking of the wine and that particular conversation is what stopped him from partaking in “adult beverage” now? 🙂

    • Forrest has mentioned lightning several times as well as sliding down the fire escape to play hooky in grade school. I have kept in the back of my mind the image of a white streak of quartz or a rusty brown streak natural in some boulders.
      Along with a bunch of other possibles that I try to look for as well. But I still have to wonder if the blaze isn’t that easy to just walk up and see. Something adds another level of difficulty for the wise person.

      • It was like a mini lightning bolt that made a loud PSSSSTT sound.
        Most of the time he missed the fly and had to move the lightning over a little. There were so many flies it didn’t matter.

        His travels through the Madison’s with the horse lightning.

        He said he was going to give his secret lightning gun invention to the Army to use against enemy soldiers.

        I’m just waiting for the thunder.

  16. I think that wwwh is the key to the poem – from wwwh it tells you how to find hob – and that the end is ever drawing nigh – no paddle up your creek – it all so tells you about heavy loads and waters high it also tells you where the blaze is from there – but I think that we have to first – find wwwh I think that from there (wwwh) is the place that sends us where we have to go – its like the main train station that’s where you start your quest – this is just my opinion

  17. Good afternoon, at least it is here,

    I have a question I want to put to the community here at HOD about the blaze.
    Would you consider a black burnt area all the way around and up about five foot on about a 50 foot plus Ponderosa Pine (guessing) a ” blaze” according to the poem. Now before you answer and say a tree won’t last 1000 years down the road there are some that do last quite a long time and besides I personally think Forrest has wanted the chest found in his life time if not a least in his children’s or granchilden’s life time, so we know trees can last a least that much time.

    Now food for thought about the tree and the area:
    The tree is is big enough around the base that I can not put my arms around it and there’s still about 18″ between my finger tips. As I said the burnt part is only up around 5 foot all the way around on a 50′ plus tree.
    This is the only tree in the area that is burnt, other trees in the area that are the same size and smaller and bigger have no indication of a fire damage.
    In very close proximity there is a large boulder cluster that matches the gold nuggets with the frog in the TTOTC book.
    Now put “tarry scant” in the equation with the meanings like tarry – of or like tar (black), scant – means lacking a small part of whole, this would definitely discribe the burnt area on the tree.
    Now also think about when Forrest was asked what direction the “blaze” faced N, S, E or W and he said something the effect “it may not be any of those directions”, so now that burnt mark is all the way around the tree so of course it is not any of those directions but all if not more of them.n
    Also the Poem clues I found to match all the way to this point lead me to this particular area of search. So this was not just a random area of searching.

    Now back to my original question: Whould you consider this burnt mark around this tree a ” blaze”.

    The reason I ask is that my focus was on the “boulder cluster” (cluster can be seen in a close satellite view of the area) as the blaze, but came up empty for the chest. I did find in it’s niche ( big enough for a man to fit) and old rusted out cast iron frying pan, and part of a old style surveying rod along with bones of a wild animal in it. I took pictures of the area of search and of that tree but did not search around it. It has been a few years now since I have been there and I still wonder about this tree.
    So this is why I ask the question to all of you. Should I ever consider it could have been the “blaze”? Thanks in advance for your replies. Again I believe I found all the clue solves up to this point. Not sure if I’ll make it back out there, but this has definitely weighed heavy on my mind. Bur

    • Hello Bur. I’m not sure if trees would make a good blaze. Scrapbooks #148 and #182 might be good examples. I’d like to include, although Ponderosa pines may live a long time, there have been a lot of beetle kill over the years, which have affected many. The past couple weeks or so while visiting Rocky Mountain National Park, I’ve seen healthy pines uprooted by winds. I hope this will help you decide. This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

      • pdenver,
        Thanks for your opinion. I had originally thought that too. There is so much in this area that I might have missed something else. I feel confident in my poem solves. I have a conformation on something that helped me understand that this could be the right area but also doesn’t mean it’s this exact spot. I know after all the years since Forrest has hidden the chest the area can change with new growth, fallen trees, even dirt and debri being moved around by winds, rain and snow so it might make hard for any searcher to identify that” hidey spot”. Again thanks for your reply. Good luck. Bur

        • Hello Bur. If I may use SL’s great comment from yesterday, in part, ‘What’s more important is what “you” think.’ If you believe it to be true, who are we to say it is not.

        • (Second try.) I’d like to use SL’s great comment from yesterday, in part, ‘What’s more important is what “you” think.’ If you believe in it, who are we to say it is not. How would you feel if you didn’t go back and check?

    • Bur;

      I read a story not too long ago, that described a “Lone Fire Damaged Cedar” Your tree is a Pine, but , very similar. You gave us readers a much better description than was given in the story I read – Thanks for the details.

      It sure sounds like an interesting tree, to me. As you say, you seem to have supporting data to bring you to this area, so it surly COULD be a blaze, to my way of thinking anyway.

      I am intrigued by this line: ” I did find in it’s niche ( big enough for a man to fit) and old rusted out cast iron frying pan, and part of a old style surveying rod along with bones of a wild animal in it. I took pictures of the area of search and of that tree but did not search around it. It has been a few years now since I have been there and I still wonder about this tree.”

      I love finding these old things in my searches too, and am always on the lookout for them.

      I would have thought that your “boulder cluster” might have been your “Tarry Scant” instead of your blaze. Would it work if the tree is your blaze, for you to “look quickly down” at the “boulder cluster” and Tarry scant? You just might have something then. Who knows. I would give it another try Bur.

      But don’t listen to me, I only have two brain cells that work, and one of them mis-fires quite often. Thanks for the post Bur – hope this helps. JDA

    • Bur,
      If you want honesty, I’d say Nope.

      While you used some of fenn’s comment to help think about this particular “blaze” you then dismissed his thoughts of “down the road,” and other comments.
      The assumption that you ‘think’ he ‘wants’ it to be found in his life time doesn’t really stand up to the other many comments he has made over the years. { too many to list }

      The major problem with your burnt tree blaze is… a plant, tree etc. can’t be expected to last any real length of time, no matter how long the species has been known to last… tomorrow, Lightening could take the tree, a fire, insects, disease, even drought or high winds.. and depending on the terrain, mudslide etc. The variables are many against a tree being a blaze that could be gone in a blink of an eye. Look at what happen in fenn’s own backyard…

    • SL, JDA, Seeker

      Thanks for your replies. I will try and comment on some that you said. SL yes I have gone back and forth on this tree blaze with out a answer.
      JDA thanks for your opinion. I have been on this journey for some time. I do believe there is a word that is key and it is not in the poem. This word is one Forrest has stated in the TTOTC book and have seen it has influenced parts of his life. I have consider this word in all search solves I have had. The poem has been tricky to understand but in my last solve it all came together, but the the true understanding of the blaze. I am convinced now that the blaze cannot be found until you are in the correct search area and really have time to spend there searching all avenues there. Beside that boulder cluster was a tree that had 3 blaze marks cut into it. They were not new ones and could tell they have been there for some time. The burnt tree was between two big boulders, in fact I believe that the one on the upper side was actually stopped by the tree when it broke loose from a much higher formation nearing the top of the mountain. There are many pieces of broken rock and boulders scattered in this area. But the base of this burnt tree is now protected from any new debris by that boulder that is maybe 10 foot in height. There is that disappearing creek right there too.
      Seeker your thoughts were my thoughts when I first seen it this is why I did not search around it not to mention my time was short so I concentrate on the boulder cluster. Now as I try and rehash everything this burnt tree comes into play. What really stand the sands of time especially since the earths crust is constantly moving. This is why I want opinions on my second thoughts, and again thanks for yours.
      Bur

      • Bur,
        I’m only trying to think logical for something fenn would ‘use’.. as a blaze.
        *I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest….

        Imo, this comment might be saying he could have written the poem at almost any time period in his life. Even though the tree might have been there that long… the question is… If he could have written the clues out years in the past was that tree burnt at that time? {just analyzing possibilities logically}
        Not knowing when this occurred leave a big opening for speculation, and speculation with out fact backing, is a rabbit hole.

        But out of curiously, how did you get from stanza 3 to this tree?
        I mean, the last thing mention in stanza 3 is heavy loads and water high, right? What caught your attention to the tree from that point in the poem…

        contiguous; sharing a common border; touching.
        “the 48 contiguous states”
        synonyms: adjacent, neighboring, adjoining, bordering, next-door; More
        abutting, connecting, touching, in contact, proximate sequence.

        The blaze should be within a proximity of the last, or all clues… in my mind. { distance is not in question } as long as things “fit” together by the meaning of the contiguous

        I also wonder, do you consider the blaze a clue, and if so, would that clue not be in the poem for interpretation? If Tarry is meant as tar… is soot, burnt wood, tar?

        Tar; a dark, thick, flammable liquid distilled from wood or coal, consisting of a mixture of hydrocarbons, resins, alcohols, and other compounds.

        I’m not seeing soot or burnt wood or remnant of ~ as tar, matching the description of Tar…

        If any of my thoughts help… great. If not? Well, I tried.

        • Seeker,

          My heavy loads and water high are about the 200 ft range to where the boulder cluster and burnt tree is located. My no paddle up your creek “creek” runs right in the middle of heavy loads and water high but it disappears just past them and a animal trail goes along where the creek was at some point. The creek goes under ground, must have washed out the sand around the rocks, stones way back and pops up higher in elavation and at lower elevation then where that burnt tree is. Bur

        • I seriously doubt that it is anything as temporary as a tree. Based on comments it sounds like it has been there for a long time and will be there for a very long time from now barring structural changes to the earth over time.

          • Arron,
            This has been my way of thinking too. That burnt solo tree bottom just stuck out in this area and my afterthought of searching it kind of fell in the category of the blaze as “anything that stands out”. Thanks for the reply. Good luck in your search. Bur

      • Thanks Bur for your response. Sure sounds like an interesting place to search. Good luck to you if you ever return to this spot. Please remember – TRY to STAY SAFE!!! JDA

      • Bur,…. I would say no to the burnt tree as being the blaze and for two main reasons:
        1. Anything burnt or burnt out cannot be a blaze, it is the aftermath of a blaze. Therefore, cannot be a blaze itself.
        2. It’s a tree and trees can be removed easily. Forrest has said, (paraphrasing here) The blaze could be removed but it wasn’t feasible to do so. Now is it feasible to remove a tree? Of course it is. It can be feasible for many reasons which I won’t mention here. Oh, and as many have commented here it doesn’t stand the test of time.

        If I remember right didn’t Forrest say that each clue was a geographical location? So look at your solution and see if that’s the case. If not then you are on the wrong track. But, I do think you are right about the hidey spot being covered by rocks or something to that nature and not buried.
        Good luck to you.

        • Bur,….Oh, I forgot to say that if you find anything at a possible treasure site such as what you found then you are at the wrong spot. I don’t think that Forrest would leave anything like that there. Remember it’s special to him and would not litter it up.IMO.

          • ManOwar,
            Thanks for your reply. I don’t think the items I found in the boulder niche was from Forrest. I believe that it might have been from someone surveying that area back in the early 1900’s. There’s some thing close by that was put in that area back then. Good luck in your search.

    • Bur. You have interesting ideas. I have entertained the idea of carbon remnants for a blaze in my list of ideas . Though I no longer entertain the idea, it is still possible of course . My suggestion is to just not limit one idea for a blaze in and around your search area. Perhaps just keep an eye out for other potential blazes of other kinds there. Bio carbon is tricky in a time line scenario for me. Such as,do I know exactly when that tree was exposed to a fire. I don’t know how to carbon date something before or after chest placement or of the poem . Just my way of thinking about fire as a blaze. It is possible but just least likely in my mind . I would never scratch off any idea; I just scale it as least likely. IMO.

      • Alsetenash,
        The burnt part of the tree seemed to be thick charcoal and also the size of the base makes me think it will be there awhile. It did not appear to be a fresh burn and had hardly any smell to it. As I said there seem to be three possibilities for the blaze just in a 50 foot area. There is a juniper tree within ten foot of it and plenty of sagebrush around the tree line. Big horn sheep past through this wet and dry creek bed there, and if you listen you can hear the train whistle as it passes along side the river down the canyon. There are other factors that help confirm my solve in this area but they would be much to helpful of hints to keep it untraveled by others. And I solve the poem clues before finding all the confirmation hints in case your wondering. Good luck and thanks for your reply. Bur

        • My concern is also that maybe there is a pile of rocks like the girl left at San Larenzo when she buried the ugly pot of her boyfriend. Which this statement of Forrest came out after my search. Bur

          • Bur. I lean towards hidden by or under rocks also. Covered, not buried. Time would allow for vegetation growth within and around the rocks also IMO.

        • Thanks Bur. I see you postulate many ideas and meanings wich is best practice in my opinion-less rigidity the better!

          Yes, one can only say so much on here to not give directions to ones spot lol. For me , I agree that, in ones mind, we would have to have had the other clues bring us to our location of our blaze before finding it . I had an image in my mind of what it might look like. When I arrived close to my spot; I actually saw almost the same image. Darn snow is all I can say!

    • “black burnt area all the way around and up about five foot on about a 50 foot plus Ponderosa Pine”

      Doesn’t seem like an area to die for.
      Sorry, don’t see it happening.

    • Bur, many folks are mentioning 1000 years as the time span
      that the poem’s clues should endure. But I remember also
      seeing a mention, by FF, of 10,000 years. Does this, to you, make any difference, when you consider the tree’s durability? All IMO.

  18. here is something to think about – to me put in below hob – means north of hob- so look quickly down to me means – keep looking north but not far- look quickly means not far – down would be north – cause the blaze is still below hob which is north – so keep going north but not far from the plaze where the treasure is imo

  19. Bur,

    What’s more important is what ‘you’ think. The way you describe it and after all the time that has passed?

  20. I believe that the Blaze is in the shape of an arrow pointing towards the location of the chest. Perhaps a valley in the side of a mountain. That would stand the test of time. I have found such a Blaze in Montana, working on it now.

    • Mr. Fenn,
      Which direction does the Blaze face? North, South, East or West? Curious. Foxy
      I didn’t take a radial off of the blaze Foxy. I’m thinking it may not be any of those directions. f

      John R,
      Even if we bend the directions a bit, and say the blaze points NE or SW does this make the answer true?.. Radial means basically lines from a center point out. Would that not cover NE, or SW and all other points as well?
      Serious question… Because I have tried every angle of thought on this Q&A. But if the radial or radii can cover all directions.. is fenn saying “not any of those directions” in the question? or in a radial ~ or simply saying… no directional pointer needed from the blaze?

      Just curious how you take that Q&A, because you have your theory the blaze point in a direction to travel.

      • Thanks Seeker for the Q&A. I never had seen that one. My first thought of FF’s answer could mean a Globe form? Facing all directions all the same? Interesting answer by him.

        • The man does make you think…
          Example; If you don’t know where your going all trails will lead you there [ or something like that ]

          Is this sarcasm or truth?
          Lets say the Chest is located somewhere on the CD… can a trail be a waterway or drainage from the CD? and all ‘waters’ trail’s lead you there?

          Fenn’s straightforwards is very tricky to interpret… Imo ‘simple’ [KiSS] won’t understand the poem. I’m leaning toward clever in truth. Not unlike; a map is a map, the more detailed a map the better… what are those details???
          Or GE “and/or” a good map. GE is nothing more than a satellite image or overhead picture, right?
          what details are on a picture “and/or” satellite image?
          Oh, sorry. I’m rambling and rumbling in thoughts again… Yep! I agree. An interesting answer.

          • Ya, endless ideas never drawing nigh lol. I thought also after, it could mean either a globe or pyramid shape as to not be facing true any specific direction. If not this scenario; perhaps it was evasive in answer in order to not give a direction. If he did say a directional facing, it would be too much of a hint from where to approach the poem from ? There is NSWE and as a pilot add up and down. His answer could have given an 84.3% certainty. IMO. Smart to evade specifics on the question. IMO.

          • I believe that the blaze isn’t actually facing in any direction. If it was he would know it and would not have sidestepped the question. Sometimes his lack of an answer is better than an actual answer IMO.

        • Another interesting take on it may be that…when you follow the clues to the blaze… you walk right onto it, and it is facing up to the sky, flat on the ground…
          Then there are multiple scenarios from there that may work.

          • Ken, you’d have to be something like an
            experienced rock climber to walk onto
            the blaze. I don’t think FF wants anybody
            to try this. IMO.

      • I think f enjoys these types of questions. The blaze must be facing someway. Whether it’s pointing, or just sitting there, it faces up,down,left,right, etc…etc…Like Seeker says, a radial. So, his answer makes someone think, since not N,S,E,W, must be up,down, etc… In Forrest fashion, take it for what’s in the question. Must be either nw, sw, ne, se, any way you could think, just not N,S,E,W.
        The part I would be more centered around is the “deceptive” part. How is the blaze deceptive? SL said yesterday something about camouflage. That’s a possible idea. Maybe marvell gaze is one thing and the blaze another. Whatever it is, it’s obvious you see a “marvell gaze”. Maybe you can’t see a blaze by just looking in this area. An arrow pointing somewhere isn’t very deceptive, unless it’s (for lack of a better word) camouflaged.
        All we know is that the blaze is deceptive and doesn’t point N, S, E, or W. If you asked me, it’s something in the landscape. Radiism, radiation, symmetry, take your pick.

      • Seeker. I think you will find that the Blaze is an arrow that points down from the mountain showing the location of the chest. So no direction, just down. You wont miss the Blaze, it is about 500 feet tall!

        • John,
          Is that a typo..500 feet tall? That’s 1/2 the length of the Empire State building.

          Grant you I’m not familiar with many features in the RMs… But an arrow that large I would like to see.

          • Hi Seeker. It is formed by the valley of a mountain. It is a natural formation that happens to look like an arrowhead, similar to the one Mr Fenn owns. Depending on what time of day you look at it, and the angle of light, it is quite spectacular.
            It will generally stand the test of time, but may disappear in the event of an earthquake.

        • John, I don’t think your Blaze is the same one
          that FF wrote about in his poem. But don’t
          believe me just because I have an opinion.

          By the way, how many hours did you spend
          on your solve? Was it hundreds?
          Did you show the poem to any children?

          Did you look up at least ten words that are
          in the poem?

          Please don’t underestimate Forrest and the 15 years he spent polishing the poem. Most people have no idea who they’re dealing with
          (in Fenn).

          But at the same time, Fenn has no idea who HE’S dealing with (in at least one searcher).

          All IMO. Good luck to you.

          • tighterfocus: “Fenn has no idea who HE’S dealing with (in at least one searcher).”

            I think that searcher is you.
            I have been following you for a while & you are right on.

          • Hi TF.
            I have spent hundreds of hours on my solve, but have not shown the poem to any children.
            Funny that you mention the 15 years that Mr Fenn spent on the poem. The Roman equivalent is XV. X marks the spot, V is the arrow or Blaze pointing to the spot.
            Kind of like Mr Fenn talking about his brother Skippy turning Alpha in the book. Turn the letter A upside down and see what you get.
            All in MHO. Good luck to you too.

      • What if the blaze is overhead – broadly spoken? By that, I mean, could the blaze be a star in the evening sky? Would he make us searchers be out in the woods at night (in the cold) to get a reference direction to go pick up Indulgence in the morning? Maybe the flashlight and sandwich comment was not so far out of line.

        • Not unless it’s Polaris. The other stars are all in motion all night, every night. And the ones that are up while it’s dark out change from season to season.

          JAKe

        • swwot: “could the blaze be a star in the evening sky?”

          If the blaze is a star in the evening sky, I will eat my hat & anyone’s for that matter.

          Your rocket seems to be going in the wrong direction.

          • If I remember correctly, there was a scrapbook or a comment made about the blaze winking at Diggin gypsy. What it the sun, or was it the tree(s)? This is an opinion, offered as a thought.

          • pdenver,
            I don’t recall the winking blaze @ Diggin.
            Please refresh my memory.

            Never mind thanks to Blex.
            “When the Gypsy finally reached her isolated search spot near the north side of Hebgen Lake, she said, “Nothing was watching but me and the wind. I sensed the treasure was right there – and all of the clues fit perfectly. The blaze was winking at me and grinning, and I was grinning back.”
            http://dalneitzel.com/2013/12/21/scrapbook-fifty-three/

          • Good point Alsetenash.
            Clouds can ruin any solve on any day or night for that matter.
            I’m gonna grab a cold one right now & will be worth it.

          • Well, true in some cases I suppose,but a cloudy day doesn’t effect my solve in any way-only snow.

          • Jake – more brainstorming or talking out load what I’m thinking outside the box. Actually, the rocket as my “handle” went to the moon and back – definitely aimed in the right direction. 🙂

            But I still wonder about the blaze and what it really could be. I wonder if I’ll know it when I see it, but not know of it or be able to guess it before hand?

          • My opinion on that probably doesn’t mean much swwot.

            I will say your dads remembrance is more important & you wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for him & should be respected as much.

            I think the blaze is in the poem.
            A old wise man told me so.

            Why didn’t F answer those Q’s about the blaze being predetermined for lack of better wording.

            I think it’s in the poem as a word & it’s not “the blaze”.

          • Hmm, that’s an interesting thought Jake. I was definitely thinking along the lines that the blaze was a physical occurrence existing “out there” in the woods – not a word or words in the poem itself. I’ll have to consider that some more. Great, now I’m even more lost. 🙂

            And yes, I appreciate your thoughts concerning my dad and his service for our country.

  21. The word “wise” has been bugging me for a while and I would like input from others if you all don’t mind.
    I have been thinking about the poem using alternative meanings of words – especially if they are geographic or directional in nature. For example – nigh meaning left and draw meaning a pass (mountain pass). I also believe that homophones are used as well. So, I am trying to identify various geographic meanings for the word wise.
    In addition to meaning smart, I’m thinking that wise could be Ys. This could mean more than 1 fork in the creek. Once you get to the second one, or go a little past the second Y, turn around so that you have been there (been wise) and now facing the correct direction in order to see the blaze.
    Does anyone have any other ideas about alternative meanings to the word wise?
    I’m trying to read this part of the poem as very specific directions so that a person can walk confidently to the right spot to see the blaze. Thanks in advance for any input.

    • JBL,
      I think your thinking is heading in a good direction… Wise; Become alert to or aware of something… and not so much, how intelligent someone is. At this junction, wise might be more about surroundings {tight focus come to mind}.
      But you used the word “Draw” as pass [mountain pass]. Was this a typo for “drawing”? Which in geographical terms can mean drainage.
      Or draw as in geographical terms which kinda matches a passage… a lower level area in the terrain with parallel sides… which some call a hollow and others call a ravine, and could be a drainage area for seasonal run off.

      I do like your Turn Around… to see where you’ve been.
      I don’t know if that helped, but I like your thoughts.

    • JBL;

      I like your thinking. Not in geographical terms, but to me “Wise” has always meant “Wise like an owl.” But how is an owl wise, as relates to the poem? To me, an owl always seeks the highest perch possible from which to survey its potential prey. Could Forrest be telling us to seek a high perch, from which we can look DOWN on the blaze? Works for me. JDA

      • JDA,

        I will agree about being high to look down. If you sit on top of my boulder cluster you can see all around you. The water high is viewable, the valley area down, the slopes on both sides of the creek, also where the heavy loads comes from, and even to where the river is located down about a half mile away. Yes I even heard the train whistle as it passed by early morning on top of these boulders. I could image Forrest sitting here for hours looking at the beauty and wild animal that inhabit this area. The quietness in this area was fantastic you could hear small birds and rodents rustling in the sagebrush around you. If Forrest picked this spot I could understand why. Bur

        • What an idyllic spot Bur. I hope to view such a spot in my lifetime. I have seen many panoramic vista’s in my life-time, but what you describe seems to be “Very Special”. If it is Forrest’s “Special Spot”, I am glad that you were able to view it. Again, good luck in your search. Forrest has given us the “map” All we have to do is follow the “markers” that he has pointed out to us. JDA

      • Thanks all,
        Seeker, yes, I’m thinking draw as a lower level area in the terrain with parallel sides which would also be for drainage as in a creek.

        JDA, I like that idea of a high perch. I think Forrest would like that as a view as well. I’ll add that to my list of wise meanings. Thanks!

      • JDA,
        It’s getting close to another bet you have & I’m not talking about ours.
        I still see lots of snow in your area.
        When are you heading out again?

        • Well Jake, Wyoming is a big state with lots of climatic conditions. I knowof several places around 5,000′ – still lots of snow. I also know of a place or two where if on the south facing sides of slopes, there is little to no snow at 10,,000′ Where is “MY” spot – somewhere between the two. When will I go? When Mother Nature tells me I can – how about you? JDA

          • I’m glad your letting Mother Nature guide you.
            Most of us know just because there is no snow around are areas the runoff is enough to be a turnoff.

            Hiking in slippery mud & crossing streams & creeks can be tricky.

            I’ve got a trip planned for the 15th of July.

          • Best of luck to Ya’

            As far as I know, I only have one bet out there, and there is no time limit on it. What do you know that I do not? JDA

          • I know JDA,
            I have the same one & only bet.
            Our 2K bet is nullified & I wouldn’t hold you to it anyway.
            Good luck in your quest.

      • JDA, the use of the word “wise” in the poem does not
        relate to any owls, IMO. You are probably old enough
        to be a little flexible regarding this, but I don’t want to
        give you too much info right now, because the hunt
        for the TC involves too much financial value.

        Good luck. All my opinion. Please don’t be angry
        with me.

    • JBL, I’ve had a lot of similar thoughts to yours about the word “wise”, trying to see if there is some sort of double entendre there that I am missing. I thought about Y’s as in a creek or trail junction, and I’ve also wondered if it was some sort of subtle reference to Wyoming’s state abbeviation (“WY’s”). Owls are wise and so are sages (sagebrush?). The 3 wise men in the Nativity. Wiseguys. Wisenhiemers. Wise brand potato chips (do they still make those?). The knight who makes the quote “You have chosen wisely” when Indiana Jones drinks from the true Grail. Etc., etc.

      Ultimately though for me, I simply settled on taking this word at its face value in the poem. It makes sense to me that a decent amount of wisdom would be required to find the blaze.

      I like to avoid rabbit holes if I can; they make me claustrophobic! 😉

      • Thx Blex,
        I have always thought that the line “So why is it that I must go…” refers to WY. I am thinking that it may also refer to Y as well. Whatever Y means. (Hint in the book – yoyo). The one time I went on a search, I veered off from the creek and went to the blaze. I’m thinking I shouldn’t have left the creek and should have looked for the blaze from afar. (The scrapbook with the binoculars, and the comment to the effect of “save your best smile” – when you smile, you squint.). If I happen to be right with other clues, but miss the meaning of the word wise, that would be very frustrating. That would mean that “I chose poorly.”

        • Food for thought….

          My grandfather, was approximately the same age as Forrest’s father, Marvin Fenn. He liked puzzles and riddles. Here was one of his favorites:

          YYUR
          YYUB
          ICUR
          YY4ME

          =============
          Too wise you are.
          Too wise you be.
          I see you are,
          too wise for me.

          • I like it. “Hear me all” to me says to listen to the sounds of the words and think differently about them. Is that the riddle to which F refers?

      • Blex, wisdom isn’t required in order to correctly solve the poem. But ability to think and use some imagination
        is. FF’s use of the word “wise” in the poem is very
        important, however. All IMO.

    • What if the Y is 200 feet from the blaze and people went to the blaze but skipped the wise or Ys. They walked past the chest perhaps. I think wise must be critical to understand and it is overlooked by most. Is that the important “what if”? Sorry, I’m just rambling now. I’ll stop.

      • JBL, think Indiana Jones. The staff of Ra in the map room. Then, think of Skippy. If you “skip” p, that leaves you with “Y”.
        Knowlege= know “lege”, which is short for legend. (which f thought of skippy).
        Split “legend” to get leg end, which is “foot”.
        “Y” = 7. So, “Y” is 7′ tall. Like Skippy standing up, you put this “Y” which is 7′ tall somewhere. The sun hits that “Y” staff and produces a shadow. All you need now is the sun’s elevation and you could figure the shadow length.
        If you do figure out where to put this “Y” staff, DIG, 3′ would probably be deep enough. 🙂 Not the chest but possibly one of his beautiful works of art he is so skilled at. (that’s a joke..)

        • I’m glad that’s a joke, because I’m not digging anywhere. Why did you say Y=7? Was that part of the joke as well? I hope there’s no snakes there, because I hate snakes.

          • The chest is between 5000 and 10200 feet as was said. Not much snakes at 5000 feet and only a couple of species rarely even at 7000 feet. Apparently non at 9000 feet and higher. Just from what I researched because I am not much wanting to run into any snakes either.

          • Thanks, Alsetenash! I just researched my area and I should be good. I do hate snakes – just like Indiana Jones.

          • Alsetenash
            I saw two snakes in my search area which is at about 7800 feet.

          • Randawg. There are a couple or a few kinds of snakes at that elevation depending on which state in the USA. NM has a few and even the odd rattler at that elevation but very rare from what I could research. Even in some states above 9000 elevation there is some rare sightings. Lots of different info out there so I am not surprised you saw some. There are habitat statistics and also different eyewitness sightings. I just don’t like snakes.

          • Well, Charlie, if you feel it’s working for you, who am I to dissuade you? I would just say that a common mistake that people make is in over-estimating the odds against some “feature” appearing randomly in the poem.

            There are an almost incalculable number of ways to parse the letters of a 166-word poem. The more degrees of freedom you allow yourself, the greater the variety of solutions you can create, many of which will almost unavoidably match interesting places. How well you can get clues to line up with a favored spot is really only limited by how imaginative you are with constructing techniques for “reading” the poem. Very similar to the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy.

          • I agree Zap, I never said I liked the solution, just the results. In evaluating, I’m hardest on myself, no delusions of grandeur. But you gotta admit, it would just be like f to give us a poem with 9 clues that you cannot solve all the clues from. His reason for saying it is the backbone of the whole chase. He knew what would happen if he said there are 9 clues. I guess I would be laughing too. Does anybody actually know what the blaze looks like? Marvel gaze yes, but to know the blaze is tricky. Need boots on the ground and a decent camara, IMO. Just like BOTG for the 3rd clue. Poor little Indi.
            I will say this though, the poem will give you confidence that you know what lines the clues are in. And if they are correct, and, you can still solve some of the clues, that’s obvious. I think everyone should just stop trying to solve for clues and just solve the poem. If you don’t think there are numbers then one thing. Why does he give us the amount of coins in the chest? Why count them? Gold nuggets, hundreds, jewels many, but how many turquoise beads on his bracelet? How many coins? Saying hundreds would get his point across. Think about it…..

          • Hi Charlie — just to be clear, I’ve never said there aren’t numbers to be found in the poem or that numbers aren’t involved in the solution. TTOTC is chock full of numbers, a few in particular that I believe are extremely helpful. It’s just that I think your method for extracting numbers from the poem is overly complex, that’s all.

          • Got it Zap, lol, I think I’m incapable of complex thought. I can’t believe for the past 2 days I’ve agreed with most of what Zap is saying. Hopefully I’m playing up to the competition and he’s not playing down to it…
            Actually, I have such a good blaze. A little too good. Always that chance someone is joking around, but man…sooo good

        • Hi JBL: I suspect Charlie’s Y=7 is numerology-based: Y is the 25th letter of the alphabet, and so silly numerologists will reduce this to 2+5 = 7. I don’t get the feeling Charlie was being serious with his post. In any case, numerology like astrology is a bunch of hooey, and I can’t see Forrest giving it any credence.

          • Then zap….IMO – you don’t know FF very well.

            First off….his affinity with the Native Americans is way beyond that of “hooey”. He has a spiritual connection to them, whether you think so or not.

            Shoot…he bought a pueblo. How close do you want to be to them, if you didn’t do something like that?

            Do you know anything about the SW Native American cultures? The Anasazi? The Hopi? The Navajo? Any others? Their history, culture, textules, art, mythology, spiritual life, or communities?

            You underestimate the difficulty and layers within the poem.

            Good luck to you.

          • Thanks, Zap. I thought Charlie was joking about the number 7, but wanted to make sure. To me, this is a word puzzle/riddle, not a numbers puzzle.

          • Tim: what in the world are you talking about?? I said numerology is basically crap. Are you trying to say the Hopi, Navajo and other Native Americans are numerologists? If so, you’re insane and U will never address you again.

          • Hi zap….you had wrote….

            ” In any case, numerology like astrology is a bunch of hooey”
            – I was furthering your point to say it was not, because IMO – FF uses spirituality as a level of thinking within his poem.

            You seem to think any esoteric or “paranormal” search tool is “hooey”.

            I disagree. That was all.

            You have every right to think it is….I’m just saying that it isn’t…..and one should not underestimate FF with his use within the poem.

            He even stated that one should be thinking like an “omniscient sage”.

            How metaphysical or spiritual is this? Very.

            Numerology, although I don’t subscribe to this method, it is still a category within the esoteric and metaphysical levels of thought.

            Goo luck to you.

          • Zap….

            “If so, you’re insane and U will never address you again.”

            Don’t respond to me ever again…..it would be best, especially if this is how you think I am.

            While you are at it….skip over my posts too…..the information doesn’t seem to be of help to you.

            Besides that, I didn’t come to this blog to see the drama you seem to be leaning towards.

            Thanks and good luck to you.

          • there has to be a number system somewhere in the poem. Either counting paces, signs, trees, whatever, if you think there are no numbers, you need to re-evaluate your solve. If people tell him where they have been, and he says people have been within a certain distance, why would he give us that distance? Why would he know? Commenting on coordinates, saying people have been within certain distances, the fact that there are 9 clues, lol, no numbers huh? How many coins in the chest? Why not just say hundreds, like the gold nuggets? He says a number for a reason.
            If you don’t have some sort of number system, you’re wasting your time.

          • Hi Charlie,

            “There has to be a number system somewhere in the poem. Either counting paces, signs, trees, whatever, if you think there are no numbers, you need to re-evaluate your solve.”

            It is possible for Forrest to navigate us to a very specific location without the use of numbers, paces or coordinates, but it is much harder to do so for an *arbitrary* location without the use of numbers or counting in some fashion. That said, if Forrest used numerology in any way, shape or form, I’ll eat Jake’s nasty hat.

          • Tim — I consider it my sacred duty to counter ignorance and superstition whenever it rears its ugly head — especially if taints mathematics or astronomy as numerology and astrology do, respectively.

            “I was furthering your point to say it was not, because IMO – FF uses spirituality as a level of thinking within his poem.”

            Numerology has to do with mysticism, not spirituality.

            “You seem to think any esoteric or “paranormal” search tool is “hooey”.”

            Yes, I absolutely do.

            “I disagree. That was all.
            You have every right to think it is….I’m just saying that it isn’t…”

            If you want to believe in the occult, or numerology, or divining rods, or Big Foot, or telekinesis, or even angels, that is your right. But don’t try to conflate what *you* believe with what Forrest believes. If you truly believe Forrest encorporated numerology or metaphysics into his poem, you’re going to be searching for that bronze chest for a very long time.

          • Actually……I won’t be.

            …and IMO – it will be this line of thinking that will allow me to pick up the TC.

            Good luck to you.

          • Charlie,
            Personally I find it hilarious that some who use codes type methods {and some of those method count on letters of words}, or star tracking systems, or religion aspects and beliefs or rely one a fishing manual or any other method in the attempt to solve the poem, turn around a criticize another for use a number system, or counting system or mathematics or any other kind of method that doesn’t match their brilliant BS…

            So, just for the fun of it… Lets play with the poem itself, if you don’t mind.

            4 line in each stanza… not abnormal for a poem. 6 stanzas… again, not unusual. 9 sentences… nothing weird yet.
            25 lines… ok still seem reasonable.

            Then we’re told the poem contains 9 clues.

            Readers now see 9 sentences, then as we read, we see 9 lines that seem like clues, and the debate of what clues might be where begins…

            So it very funny to me that those who are so dead against to the possibility that numbers couldn’t be in the poem, adhere to either 9 lines or 9 sentences just because we are told of 9 clues. I find that a bit hypocritical.

            Fenn used the word; “architect” to describe how the poem was thought out. So imo, structure / design of the poem.. word count.. line count.. stanza count etc. etc. has a very good possibility for “all the information” to be in the poem.

            Is what I say true? Who knows… but if we take fenn’s comments as helpful… the possibility is very likely. You and I have chatted about numbers in the past… we may disagree on some aspect of how to go about it… But like you, there seems to be something in the design of the poem that might help.

            Otherwise, the idea of stanza 1 5 6 could be nothing more than filler stanzas… almost 1/2 the poem… to have little or no use would be a waste of time. That thought is a hard sell in my book.

            {in part}
            “…There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues….”

            While this Q&A doesn’t mention numbers or counting… it does say imo, the entire poem is a must.

            I personally would like to chat about the possibilities of how math or counts or design of the poem could help, if others want to as well.

          • Seeker , will add into this some thoughts. Numbers are inherent with words and language. Numbers are the common root base of all things matter and form. Numbers , therefore, can be synthesized from in every word or letter- every letter has a numeric value and so forth in a word. I think (IMO) that this is in relation to what FF said when he ” I felt like an architect, drawing that poem”. The poem is very symmetrical and numbers have a play in it. There are 24 lines in the poem; 24 is a symmetrical number.
            It don’t really think that working numbers in the poem would aid me in any way to understanding the poem though. Numbers are the same number for the word not adding any other insight to the meanings of words, working the numbers. There always will be a pattern of numbers seen because everything has a pattern-words, numbers and any forms.

            From ‘ Begin it’ to ending at ‘ Blaze’ is 9 lines. Does that mean something outside this simple fact? It means something for sure, but what? I can work with words in the poem or I can work with numbers or both. I just think that FF wrote the poem with words of visual description creating a map without the use of numbers to create words. I think he crated it to be symmetrical (architect) with/in numbers as a guide to symmetry but not by using numbers to create words in his map. IMO.

          • Let’s take the thought of geography and see what could be a possibility…

            Each line in a stanza has a word count, Example;
            stanza 5 has;
            first line 8
            second line 8
            third line 5
            fourth line 8.
            8858. right?

            Many believe the solve is around the Gallitan and Madison counties.
            This part of the poem stated “leave my trove for all to seek”
            There’s lines in the poem that state HLAWH, and no place for the meek and others.
            So many might think water is near the location of the chest, and meek can mean sheepish. So just to explain how the poem could be understood with geographical places, words multiple meanings and usages, and numbers within the poem as locations…
            Sheep lake that Splits the boundary ~{ “end” is ever drawing nigh} Madison and Gallitan counties is at 8858 in elevation.

            The area has Sheep Mountain, and coffin mountain ~ { in the wood} with the passage between the two. Sheep creek is a drain off of the lake {Drawing means pulling, drainage}

            This might be how the poem works with geography in mind.

            I could go on with number relationship to words in the poem and words interpretations… but I think you might get my thought process.

            What I see with most solves,.. involving counts or numbers… it seems to be the primary or only way of seeing clues.

            I think the poem’s entirety needs to flow with each part from, words, to lines, to stanzas, and numbers.

            There are some anomalies that are interesting as well… The word count, including spaces, from the letter A in AS to the letter T in TREASURE is 42. Does that mean anything? Who knows { pacing?}, but it is interesting when we consider fenn change this poem over and over again for some 15 years.

          • In my opinion, there will always be an ability to relate one thing to another in this poem by deduction . One can purpose relationships to numbers , words and lines all the day long day. There is some merit to this line of thought , but only to a point because this thinking is in support of the poems larger picture frame. What I mean is; I don’t think numbers were used to create the words, sentences or lines. The numbers are a result of words not the other way around IMO.

            What is HLAWH? I have seen this acronym before but I don’t know it.

            I have a poem solution or a solve as it is called. I never applied number sequences or their familiarity patterns to mine. , of course my thinking and process is no better than anyone else currently. My career has been heavy in the use of mathematics, patterns, science, investigations ect. I work with numbers endlessly. I just don’t see it as a mastery of the poem. I could be wrong and be missing an important key. But as you have said before something like this; people see to fit what they think is correct and see it repeatedly in support of their thinking. There is numbers involved of course but it is really only subsidiary to the poem in my opinion.

            Of numbers 1 through 9, there is an 11.1% chance of any number being present. On a scrolling combination dial of 4 slots say, you have a high chance of any number sequence. Applying that to letters forming words of a description of something ; your odds are even greater for sequence. Because the words have already been determined and limited by being chosen. It was not a numbers sequence that chose the words-the numbers are subsidiary. The poem is a word map!

            I can see how people can see this in contrary to what I think. We all have a different lens of method. It makes this chase very interesting! All just my opinion.

          • Using the word I believe is key makes the poem a word map and it is just a matter of fitting the features to it. It would not surprise me if the correct solve or something to do with the blaze has some type of mathematical pattern. Math is everywhere and in everything somehow. You can come up with a set of numbers in some form or fashion that can lead you through a solve in the Rocky Mountains. Like most solves it probably will not be right though. A word map is the way to the blaze and the TC IMO.

          • Aaron, Yes, this in alignment with my thinking. Math, numbers, letters and words are all in play. The poem is a word map, numbers are subsidiary in relationship to this. IMO. The poem is a word map that numbers can be seen and deduced . The words are derived from the ‘word that is key’ that within the poem identifies and relates to. Not derived from numbers. IMO. There is numbers involved that can be synthesized after the words created, thus numbers don’t unlock anything of the map. Numbers and math are just a pattern that can be seen but do not much to aid to solve. .Just my opinion.

          • Seeker, your analysis regarding geography seem to rely on the names of places. My thought is that the WWH must be a place that really has warm water, not just named “Warm River”. I think your example of Sheep Creek should be more thought of as a bighorn sheep preserve. That’s how I think geography comes into play. The names may fit as well (as a second layer to the poem) but they will change over time, which will make solving the poem harder in the future. Just my opinion.

          • JBL,
            Just examples…
            I don’t care for names of places either, but I can never rule them out if I keep an open mind.
            Who knows, maybe the good map/right map refer to constellations and land features… that was the navigation system for thousands of years { lands and oceans }

            I may not like or conclude what others suggest… but unless we can eliminate methods by fenn’s comments { the reason I use fenn’s quotes to make a point when posting } and common sense, most ideas / thoughts are still on the table.

          • Thanks Blex! The lack of a J in (J)HLAWH made me miss it and so easily I missed it too! Duh!

          • Maybe I should clarify. I’m with Zap on this one Tim. Numerology does not seem “Fenn”. Same with spirits and etc… If it does have something to do with it, I’ll eat Jake’s “tree” he will plant.
            The numbers argument is a tough one. There is no “X”, how can you get all the letter values when there is no “X”? So I get it, but, f has put those values in the poem, IMO. Of course, it has to do with how I see the poem. Break down each line by following instructions. Instruction words, within words, letters, etc…In doing this, letter values presented themselves. Not the normal A=1,B=2,C=3,D=4, ETC…it seems f gave his own values.
            The thing is, the poem only gives 9 letters values, it’s how you solve for all that is interesting, also, the value they all add up to. Why is a butterfly a flutterby? Because B=F+L. There’s hints all over the place that support this. Why would f say if you had the coordinates you could go right to the chest. How would I get coordinates? Is math involved? 20% chance to live three years. When my fate hit rock bottom, it was time to act. So, basically Dec 1988 + 3 years, 9 months = August 1992 was time to act. He says 80 enough times, 57 from cancer, just so happens these letter values add up to 80, secondary 57. There’s numbers if that is the way your solve heads. Since coordinates seem the best thing to me to stand the test of time, building and places changing names, and just everything having the possibility of changing over time, the coordinates will not. Maybe the reason we have not found the chest is because we are all trying to solve for the clues. What if you could not solve all the clues from the poem? How do you leave your house totally confident if you can’t solve for all the clues?
            Could someone honestly, know what the blaze looks like from their couch at home? Why can’t little Indy only get the first two clues? What is up with the third? We will only know a clue when we have the chest, so how do you leave your house with confidence? You should go right to the spot, how many people need to search around a little bit? Why give the amount of coins in the chest? Why did he count them? Just say hundreds is good enough, right? Unless……….there is a reason. Look, here’s the values, save them if you like, flip me off behind the screen and call me an idiot, I don’t care, but there just may be something in it, it’s worth making note. A=7,B=2,C=3,D=1,E=3,F=1,G=3,
            H=2,I=3, J=1,K=3,L=1, M=3, N=2, O=3,P=1,Q=3,R=1,S=3,T=2,U=7,
            V=1,W=7,X=9,Y=7,Z=1. Values add up to 80. Now check out what their values produce. If A=7, why? If you move 7 spaces forward you get H, 7 back you get T. These secondary values equal each other. That’s how you solve for all the values when you only get 9 from the poem. B=2 so Z=D. Etc…Hey, I just followed the instructions in the poem and this popped up, I really didn’t want to spend 6 months trying to figure it out. If I’m wrong, huh, okay, If right, then it’s worth the time. No ghosts or spirits helped.

          • charlie,
            After reading your paint by numbers blob.

            Please stay away from the trees I have planted.
            I would not like to see you lose your teeth if you have any.

            What an ugly picture you paint but I’m sure someone likes it.

          • Hi Charlie….sounds like a cipher to me.

            FF said a cipher is not needed.

            I’ll pass.

            I’ll stick with the simplicity and continuous nature the poem presents.

            Good luck to you and whom else is with you and your logic.

          • And Seeker, I agree with what you are pitching. What if we actually could not solve all 9 clues from the poem? The hints help decipher the clues, what if that’s what we get, and the deciphering is boots on the ground? The hints lead us to a spot, again, and again, until hey, I got the chest. If f didn’t say there were 9 clues, would we be trying to solve for clues? Adding in trying to figure what f considers a clue, and then trying to figure what a clue is, lol, maybe that is why it is taking so long to find. We are all trying to solve for 9 clues that the poem does not give us.
            (yeah I said it). lol, now that would be just like f. Hell, I’ll even tell everyone there are 9 clues, lol, this is going to be fun. That I could see Forrest doing.
            I believe you have a coordinates solve, (best to look at all possibilities, right). It may be the only way to leave your house totally confident. It just seems that “clues” could not stand the test of time. 100,1000 years, places and things will change, how could I then solve for clues from the poem. I can’t. Home of Brown is now a shack of Rust. I’m drawing nigh but there are now skyscrapers in the way. Not feasible to destroy the blaze, but that’s what happened, North Koreans blew it apart, so how do I solve this poem, leave my penthouse on the 265th floor with confidence, and find the chest without the clues. Coordinates…

          • Well Charlie,
            when it come to numbers that might be involved with the poem, I try to keep it grade level.
            So A would equal 1.
            But as far as coordinates? not sure if there is or is not a set in the poem. Although I did find a set, it involved the capital letter on each line, and what might be another clues combined ~ hoB, or below it I mean.

            Just like counting words in each line for each stanza to come up with what might be elevations… in the area that the theory / solve was in, it worked well.

            With that said.. and other comments that have come out since that theory… I had to adjust some thoughts. One being, Many warm waters halt…

            Who knows? the theory does lead me to a very small spot, But involves names { not my favorite thing to think about.
            Maybe some day I’ll take a trip.
            Or maybe I can bribe Goofy or Dal to have a peek if there in that area. At least I’ll end up with some nice pictures, If one of those guys could go.

          • Jake, I always thought the Mona Lisa was ugly, but man it’s worth a lot of money.
            Pretty soon, the palm trees out here will start sprouting “Kush”, so I guess I’ll have to sneak into Florida in hurricane season. Tape the windows, I’ll bring the cards and the beer.

          • Charlie: This is getting a bazillion levels deep and very awkward to reply underneath, but you posted that you agreed with me that numerology played no part in solving Fenn’s poem, and yet you then proceeded to describe a numerology solution! Are you sure you know what numerology is? The instant you start arbitrarily adding digits together and reducing to values less than 10 you are engaging in numerology. If you go down this path you might as well count the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin. It is a horrible encoding system, and Forrest is surely smart enough to know this.

          • Zap, I hear you. I know, I’m really not to thrilled about it. It’s just what the poem gave me. It’s just it doesn’t follow basic numerology like what we all think. It’s just, what looks like to me, is f giving letters values. Example:
            If you see this statement:
            Some(sum) ALL and L is ten go od, would you not think A+L+L+L=10?
            There are three answers, A=1,L=3 (basic numerology), A=7,L=1, and A=4,L=2. It’s the word “good”, that defines that statement. “go odd”.
            This is a way to break down the line to find what he is saying. It happens to give letters values. Might not like it, might think it even wrong, but we can’t say that this is the wrong approach. You just followed the instructions and it produced this.
            My thing is to find 4 lines, with the ability to be broken down in such a way like this, that makes sense, in normal speech, you would be hard pressed to find it. Look on comments, blogs, whatever. To find 8 lines with that ability to be broken down like this, well, almost impossible. To find 24 lines, lol, it must be by design.
            My thing is this, break down the lines by following the instructions given. Either in words, within words, or even letters(so hear me all= listen to my words), and listen good(take it to a deeper level, the letters in those words). Break down the lines as many times as they can be, (some lines have 10 possible ways, some just 1). It’s why you can’t mess with the poem. In looking for the answers, I noticed letter values that don’t follow the norm. In the end, they fit every situation I’ve found and they actually add up to some familiar numbers. This is the architecture of the poem. Break down the lines by following the instructions. In the end, I get coordinates. Good ones. I realize that you cannot solve the 9 clues with just this poem. Since all we need is the poem, you then realize how we all have read the poem wrong. You cannot solve the 9 clues sitting at home with the poem. Again, if f never said there were 9 clues, would we be trying to solve 9 clues? No way. The fact he said it, outside the poem, gives him the result he may have been looking for. Everyone trying to solve the 9 clues, instead of everyone trying to solve the poem.
            In my solve I’ve been out there. I could then fit these 9 clues. Some clues the poem does solve, but others, nope. Like the 3rd clue. For me, the poem gives you coordinates, date, time, direction and distance, all things that stand the test of time. The path to the chest reveals his clues. that’s it, simple. Just time consuming.
            You want to know “his rainbow”, it’s 22 degrees, rainbow halo, and it fits somewhere, butterfly=flutterby simple, forrest name 14 and 8, pages in the book, also 22 (rainbow), want his book of days, the clue lines plus the key line. area codes, place that’s dear, medicine wheels, deceptive blazes, nailed down, 2442, 80, 57, to X, Eric Sloane, Andrew Marvell, apples, etc….etc…etc…just to much to overlook, but then again, hey, it may all be wrong…:)

        • Nice! If I were you, I would look quickly down at both the blaze AND at the spot where you would have been Ys. What is your Y, if you don’t mind giving that info?

        • Charlie,

          Bingo!!

          In other words, and IMO….you’ve really hit the nail on the head about numbers in connection to TTOTC.

          SL

          • Charlie,

            Oops.

            Thought you were pro numbers. My mistake.

            BTW…
            Might ‘X’ not even have to be a Roman numeral after all?

            I believe it’s actually a reference to *something (one)…..priceless.

            Could actually indicate a reference to

          • Yea SL, I am pro numbers. Just like the blaze being camouflaged. (I’m liking that word more and more).
            My solve has coordinates. The only way to stand the test of time, IMO.In fact, here’s a thought. You cannot be at home with the poem and solve all nine clues. The poem does not solve for all the clues.lol, now watch, here they come…
            If there are no numbers, then the clues have to be either direction, distance, or time. Since places, things, objects, etc… could all change in time( change names, moved, destroyed) then how could the poem solve for places? 1000 years from now, clue 5 was frog lake, but now, the lake dried up, skyscrapers are now there, and you have this poem trying to solve for the clues. You could never solve for clue 5, thus, cannot leave your house in confidence. A direction will always be a direction, a distance the same, time, always time. That is what could stand the test of time. So, if someone believes that all 9 clues can be solved with the poem, then they have to believe in the numbers. If the poem cannot solve all 9 clues, then the only way to leave your house, confident, is with coordinates, numbers.
            If f never said there are 9 clues in the poem, would you be trying to solve for 9 clues? Of course not. 1000 years from now, not aware of the 9 clues, will those people be trying to solve for 9 clues? It’s why this has taken so long, we all read the poem wrong. You cannot, from your couch, with the poem, solve all 9 clues. The poem solves for coordinates. We can’t possibly know what f considers a clue. The only way to know you have a clue right is by having the chest, so, if you don’t know what the clues are, how can you leave your house with confidence? There will always be that .000001% chance you have a clue wrong, and that’s enough to not leave with confidence.
            The right person will leave their house, walk the path, go to the coordinates, get the chest, and then understand what he was thinking about when he said there are 9 clues. Then you could get the poem and say, “ohhhh yea, that’s a clue.
            Words demand places, words can change, words have a difficult time being the same 10000 years from now, but not numbers.:)

          • SL, the “X”, maybe it’s a reference for the Summer Solstice. On a medicine wheel the Summer Solstice forms an “X”. Dr. Eddy, follow the arrow, draw a tangent, 24th spoke. Of course, all the word people will not be able to figure out how far, since that is a number.:)

  22. Is anybody else curious why ff posted everyday for a week and then stopped? Is he nervous someone is close? Is he sick of all of our theories? Is he busy Creating something new?

    Where did you go pie thief?

    Come on back-we’re all friends here.

    • Hi Copper,

      Dal explained in an earlier post on one of the more recent scrapbooks. He had backlog of entries written by Forrest that he posted in quick succession, but now Dal is caught up on posting everything that Forrest has sent him so far and we are back to seeing new posts at a more leisurely pace. I think we all got a little spoiled over that last round of scrapbook entries in quick succession!

      • Bummer! That was fun. I felt like something was great was about to happen for a lucky searcher.

        Thanks Blex.

    • Hi, Copper. I’m mostly just a ‘lurker’ here, enjoy reading everyone’s theories and comments but don’t really have anything much to contribute to the discussions. But, I had to grin at your comment.

      Pie thief ? Now, that there’s just funny. Reminds me I got raspberries in the freezer, though, and ought to make a pie or two with ’em… so thanks. 🙂

  23. If… “There are a few words that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them….” is to be taken seriously, then it would seem likely that any kind of counting of words would be inaccurate…being that we do not know which ones are “useless”.
    One could also argue that this statement is contradictory in that there is risk involved discounting ANY of the words. The useless words appear to be necessary for something.

    • Personally, I have not spent a lot of time looking into numbers in regards to solving the Poem. I have found a couple of anomalies in regards to this method….but Fenn has told us to read the Poem, read TTOTC, and do so over and over. Good research materials are …you know the rest. This does not seem to indicate needing numbers.

      • ken,
        Fenn has told us to think, analyze, plan and observe, as well as, just read the poem, the book and maps. How do we “plan” and “observe” just by reading? and exactly what is it we are to think and analyze about?

        My only point to the discussion of the possibility of counts or numbers or math, falls in line with the amount of time fenn stated he took to finalize the poem the way he wanted it.

        Looking up words and definition of words [ as he stated ] might also help with the thought that “every word was deliberate…” such as There’ll to There will. This doesn’t change the meaning or what a sentence or line might be relaying in the word meaning part of the poem… but it could keep the word count { IF that was intended } to be exact to what fenn wanted it to be.

        My only interest in talking about this is not to debate one way or another { I can argue both side } It’s only to bring others who have the same interest of number, counts, math into the discussion of the WhatIFs…

        Maybe this is why fenn has given us elevations levels to live by… 10,200′ to 5000′ ~ A hint ? to the possibility of elevations within the poem?
        But keep in mind that my example of how I used the word count isn’t something I believe is written in stone… it just another idea for “all the information to find the chest is in the poem”

        LOL, Now I’m wondering how long it will take for someone to yell ~ Poem Purist. Clock is started…

        • lol, Tick Tock, come on JDA, I know you want to be wrong, errr, I mean say something. Grape soda sounds so good right now…LMAO…

          • Hi Charlie;

            How you doing guy? I am as anxious as the next guy to get out there. As soon as Mother Nature tells me it is OK – I will lace up my boots. Until then, I will keep listenin’, ponderin’, and hopin’ JDA

        • The poem is all you need. There are a limited number of places in the Rockies that cater to this simplicity. Read the book, pick the best starting point, and head out. I wish I would have felt free to do this instead of all that armchair research.

          • I’ve tried to search with just the poem. I believe that is a lost cause. I think you need to solve the poem before you can follow it’s steps precisely. And to do that in by humble opinion you need TTOTC. I’d recommend the other book too TFTW. With those as your tools and some BOTG you may be able to find your way. Of course you can’t get there if you don’t follow the poem exactly since that is the map. And there you will find the challenge. How do you know if you’ve really solved it? You gotta get out in the woods. And I can guarantee nobody is doing it on their first trip.

          • Damp, it obviously hasn’t been done on the a persons first trip but that does not mean it won’t be. I believe it takes the right thought process and an understanding of the poem more than several trips with BOTG. The person that solves and finds it won’t be someone that goes out over and over again chasing every WWWH in the Rockies but someone that correctly interprets the poem.

        • Seeker,
          If I knew how to, I would set a up a Go Fund Me page to get you out to Fennbore on a Lear jet.
          Something tells me these searchers need a lot of psychoanalysis & you’re as good as they come.
          Seems odd to me, [unless Gold is your Kyptonite] how clinical, how un-impassioned you remain. Tell me you don’t own ‘Psychic Hotline’

      • Ken, I agree with you. Using ANY numbers to solve
        the poem just amounts to another rabbit hole. My
        solve doesn’t even rely on counting clues in the poem.
        All IMO.

    • LOL…
      My Internet connection when down half way through The Who… That’s just criminal. But I went back and finish the song… and a few others. Thanks for the chuckle.
      But now I have an ear worm hearing that song over and over in my head. Not a bad thing really… love The Who… So I guess, I have heart worm.

      • IW: sure. The blaze is not a fox or any animal. IMO it is a named feature on any decent map close to the right geographic area. The treasure is not there, or even that close. That is not how Forrest is using his blaze in my opinion. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. I’m not a mind-reader. But I’m 100% sure I’ve identified WWWH and the correct canyon, so the possibilities are quite constrained at this point. And no, the treasure is not somewhere south of Santa Fe in New Mexico if you’re still entertaining that crazy theory — assuming that was you espousing to that theory.

        • I didn’t know what the blaze was. I had a wild ass theory that I followed and then it stopped. I was at the end. Then I zoomed around on GE and found a big blaze, with a very funny suggestion as to what “wise” was referring to. And I went to the spot and struck out. But I was missing something? Now I think I know what it was, but I can’t spend the money to go back. What I’m conflicted about is the blaze has nothing to do with my solve, it was just there. I can’t calculate his conclusion. It’s bugging me. I’m the ant circling the tree.

          • Copper,… I also have a big blaze in my solve. Which state is yours in? Mine’s in Wyoming.

        • I don’t think that the blaze is an animal. Most animals don’t live a thousand years, in my
          opinion. But what do I know? I’m not a
          numerologist, so take my opinion with a
          grain of salt.

          I also don’t think that the blaze is named on any map. But I do think the blaze is durable, and will look pretty much the same as it does now — for a few hundred years or longer.

          All IMO.

      • LMAO, I’m at a loss for words. lol, ring-ding-ding. Elephant, is that the ‘Heisenberg’ blue shade he’s sporting?

        • Hah, the train of thought is running at high speed. Recognized the name Heisenberg, mind connected it to the uncertainty principle so I looked that up on Wiki. A few paragraphs down there was mention that the uncertainty principle has been confused with a similar principle in physics called the “observer effect.” So I clicked on that link and read about different types of Observer Effect.

          There was a sub-page on Observer-expectancy effect, that says (among other stuff), “In research, experimenter bias occurs when experimenter expectancies regarding study results bias the research outcome. Examples of experimenter bias include conscious or unconscious influences on subject behavior including creation of demand characteristics that influence subjects, and altered or selective recording of experimental results themselves.

          Okay, I like weird stuff and my mind makes odd connections but this might actually have some reference to what we each are thinking about The Blaze, which is what this page is about, right? If any interest, the last link in this lil’ rabbit hole is the part I kind of got focused on:
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer-expectancy_effect

          Don’t know if it helps anybody, but hey, couldn’t hurt. Might spark a thought or two? Or not. IMO, lol.

      • I posted the link for a laugh, but did you notice an example of ‘blaze’ as mentioned by FF does appear in the video?

  24. The hardest part of being a member of Dal’s community has been reading the accounts of searchers who have made over 50 or even 100+ trips to the same state, sometimes sacrificing marriages and financial security in their obsessions, while I had very good reason to believe they were searching the wrong state.

    • That’s terrible. This is meant to be an adventure, not a marriage ender. Maybe if people worked together this chest could be found. Maybe that’s the “key.” Help a person, make a friend, negotiate and serve others; not ourselves. Life is too short. I hope the successful searcher is a good person. I really do.

    • Zap – I agree – one should only search within their means and not sacrifice financial security to do it. I can’t image going on 50 to 100 trips (while doing that in may different directions), but some have. Some also wear that like a badge of honor – I can understand that too. For me, I fundamentally believe as FF has said – the one who figures this out will go right to it. I believe most of the work has do be completed before traveling anywhere.

      IMO – my solve puts me part of the 17 foot club (that’s right I said it) but again, that’s only my opinion. Who knows I might as well be 17 miles away!

      • Hi Covert One: at least the number of unfortunate outcomes is vastly outnumbered by the good experiences: families growing closer together by sharing an adventure or two in the Rockies, thousands of people getting exercise and breathing some fresh air, and I believe even a few searchers who met new partners as a result of the Chase.

        It would be interesting to know what fraction of people are in each of the two main philosophical search camps: one where only a couple clues can be solved at home, but the rest must be solved on site, and the other where all or nearly all of the clues can be solved at home, after which you can go straight to the chest. Logical arguments can be made for each case. The solve-most-clues-on-site group can argue that Forrest’s intention was to get people off their couches enjoying nature, and thus being able to solve all the clues from home on your computer would run exactly counter to that design. On the other hand, Forrest did say, “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental.” And from Scrapbook 73: “My guess is that the person who is successful will very quietly solve the clues and walk to the treasure with a smile on their face.” Seems hard to head out with confidence when you’ve solved only a couple clues (though clearly a lot of searchers do exactly that).

        • Zap,

          I think a searchers philosophy is shaped by the search experience – in other words, many start out by saying they will solve it by interpreting the poem. Because that is so difficult, they form potential or partial solutions (in some cases, many of them) and take them to the field. This is where nature does it thing – as you say, it can be a remarkable experience with family or friends or even alone for that matter. It’s wonderful out there!

          Then, reality sets in – it’s extremely difficult to solve the poem at home and even more difficult in the field. I remember when Mother Nature casually and kindly rejected my solution. That’s correct Mother Nature rejected my solution and I was left to travel back home – defeated….just like many others.

          It’s through the defeat that one’s philosophy changes – whether defeat in the field or defeat while sitting at home spending many hours trying to interpret a solve. That is when (after defeat) I believe many say you have to have BOTG to solve it.

          I believe it can be solved without BOTG; however, retrieving it is a different matter!

          But – what do I know? I don’t have the chest.

      • Geeze, how do you find that many potential solutions??? I’ve been pressed to find 2 in two years!

        • Hi TSAL – I’ve also found two….but it took me four years.

          The first one took me two years…..two years later….I’ll be heading out to test my newest one.

          • Tim, does your newest one give you
            enough confidence that you believe
            with 100% logic and reason, and
            also having used imagination (per
            FF’s advice), that your “specific”
            search area satisfies ALL of the poem’s clues, with nothing questionable?

            Good luck. I hope you enjoy the scenery on your trip and search hike.

            All IMO.

          • I do.

            In honesty…too good.

            But I’ll know soon enough, won’t I?

            My wife is concerned about being wrong, as she should be, because I’ve done this from over 1100 miles away…..BUT….my first trek out revealed a lot more to us than we had expected, so we are taking another stab at it.

            Refined….precise…..detail-orientated.

            After two years….due diligence is more like it.

            And I am still well within my allotted budget of $3500.00. This trip would put me at about…Uhm….less than $2500 total for two attempts. Just think what 30+ would cost me…..it would be a financial burden on more ways than one….so I won’t expend travel expense of I don’t have to.

            I can live with spending a little on a bucket list adventure. And my wife agrees.

            :o)

      • Covert,
        Is it possible for you to say which clue you have solved that would lead you to believe you are within 17 miles (or feet)? (without giving away too much).

        Note: Official ‘foot club’ badges will not be issued until the chest is retrieved.

        -Randawg.

        • Randawg,

          It’s too much to give away.

          I actually agree that no ‘foot club’ badges should be issued – it’s only my opinion. I could zero in on my exact location and my location could be wrong like so many others. So while I believe it’s within 17 feet – it could be equally as many miles away…..or more!

          • I think the finder should have a contest where all of the searchers can submit their solves and then when he (or she) reveals the actual hiding place everyone will get their ‘foot’ ranking.
            Maybe even have medals made for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place!
            🙂

  25. Did I miss something? I am (of course) aware of the 500 foot club, and the 200 foot club (and even the 12 foot club that we all want to join), but haven’t heard of any mythical 17 foot club. Can anyone clue me in?
    (I may have to check the distance of my flashlight beam.)
    Thanks! And safe searching, everyone!
    Geoff
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

  26. Awwwww the blaze Something that will last a thousand years. Something that in a word is one single object Something that is neither north south east or west I need a v8

      • DG ready? Jake: I heard our Georgia Gypsy has already been to Montana and back in the last month. Look forward to reading any report she wants to share…

        • Much too early to search in the mountains of Montana.
          I would wait at least another month, otherwise your wasting your time & money & putting in harms way.

          • Hi Jake – I know of at least 4 serious searchers that have been on a search since mid April and many places were snow free at that time. Yes snow is still an issue at certain elevations and I assume the spot you want to check might still have snow. If that is the case, how do you reconcile the statement from f where he said “probably retrieve it in any weather?” If you are searching in places that are closed off during the winter or from snow it might not be feasible to expect that Forrest hid the treasure in places that are remote.

          • 1st off Hma,
            If you know exactly where it is, you would obviously weigh out the $$$ verses the effort to get it.

            BIG “IF”.

            Probably…..

            How do you reconcile “probably”?

            My spots are clear of deep snow.
            I am more concerned about getting stuck in mud & high water.

            Heck, If I knew exactly where it was, this would have been over in the winter.

          • “…how do you reconcile the statement from f where he said “probably retrieve it in any weather?”

            For one fact… The comment stated;
            “… know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather”

            There’s a big difference in searching high and low for something is weather conditions, to knowing exact where it is you want to go in any weather conditions.
            While “probably” leave room for common sense to kick in… But that conditions is going by the way of the dinosaurs, and “probably” much more than 7% of the populace.

          • Bottom line.
            If I knew exactly where 2 – 3 Million $$$ worth was hidden.
            Anyone could have it extracted at any time in just about any conditions.

            But we don’t know exactly where it is unless your mind leaves your body & travels to the place. There’s only one person that can do that.

            BigIf

          • Absolutely correct, Jake!

            “But we don’t know exactly where it is unless your mind leaves your body & travels to the place. There’s only one person that can do that.”

            But, it appears that the one person who knows exactly where it is at said, paraphrasing: If you knew what I know, you would know you can probably retrieve it in any weather….

            Probably: in all likelihood or probability

            I’ll take those odds any day!!! 🙂

          • Hi Jake –

            “Anyone could have it extracted at any time in just about any conditions.”

            Hold your horses Jake. Seeker to the rescue with f’s statement.

            “… know precisely where it is you can probably retrieve it in any weather”

            Mother nature makes her own rules. I try not to tempt her. As I recall this was somewhat close to what Forrest has also stated. There are a multitude of reasons why conditions are not ideal to retrieve something in the Rockies.

            To stay relevant with the thread, I will say that IMO, one way or more you have to find the blaze in order to find the chest. Just because you find a blaze does not guarantee that you will find the chest. Sometimes you have to work twice as hard as you ever thought possible in order to succeed.

          • Jake,
            If the chest is probably retrievable in any weather, and while fools argue about tool, he will walk away with the chest… and other statements… Kinda makes one think about needing an icebreaker, pick-axe, snow shovel…to get at the water filled chest.

          • You could do it primitive style if you know exactly where it is & I’ll add what it’s worth.

            Sticks & stones have been the tools before I was here.

        • Depends on where in Montana. Most places below 7,000′ are currently snow-free, with occasional exceptions for north-facing slopes that receive little direct sun.

        • Yep been there and back and gonna go again What a grand story I have to tell but gotta wait till my next search is over

          • I was hoping for a mill $tory.
            Grand is what it costs to get there.
            I can wait for the winding ball of yarn.

            Hope F drops from a plane & lands on a pussy willow @ Fenn Boary.

  27. Diggin’ has prolly been out and is gettin’ ready to head out again. Maybe all this late snow and late spring conditions are an omen. Maybe the ole Mother is telling searchers to not waste their time in those locations. Never know…but I would listen to her.

    • Yep snow was bad when I was there i gonna wait till I know it’s all gone next time ,,,,we were out searching and dang blizzard would blow up on ya then the sun would come out then the dang bugs never know what your gonna get in Montana

  28. Im guessing the blaze is protected by the national historical preservation act. And that’s why fenn is sure it will be around for a long time.

  29. Hey there Steve Klein,
    I agree that some level of preservation would or should be considered based on the thought that a person like Fenn would ensure some higher level of protection from the effects of time and environmental impacts to indulgence’s hidey spot.

    I found what I thought and still think is the “blaze” type feature in stone on a past search or at least real good based on how I was led to it by the poem and the potential underlying interpretation of the feature. This natural scarring would continue to last and appears to have lasted a very long period of time. It is located where it is extremely unlikely that any type of future development would ever impact it for thousands of years even in consideration of the exponential population growths seen as a whole worldwide and lesser in the US currently. Likewise, based on location, impacts from environmental devastation are unlikely. In my opinion, even a super volcano would not impact it nor an extreme thousands year flood event due to the natural topography, but it is in the “near vicinity” of water and in an area with pinyon, sage, wildlife, mountainous features, etc.

    My blaze, and hopefully Fenn’s as well, are one in the same. I searched nearby and of course found some decent hidey spot locations to no avail. It was exciting though but left me scratching my head and out of breath.

    I have not returned in some time, but since then I had come to the interpretation that if one has been wise and found the blaze then there is still further movement and a distance to travel; my meaning, similar to what others have mentioned to have “found” not “find” in the poem’s words, to me indicating further travel close by is necessary and not absolutely in the spot you are standing with the blaze.

    What do others think about, “look quickly down your quest to cease”? I believe this gives a direction and distance. The distance is in the “to cease” = two C’s = 2 times Roman numeral C which is two hundred (hmm, two hundred feet?). Kind of a listen good moment to what is being said if reading the poem aloud. Why not?

    Anyway, thanks. Oh, if someone is there at Fennboree and reads before losing signal at the campground, run it by Forrest, lol, thanks. I’m sure he would have something witty to say or maybe even a “no, I don’t think I’ll comment” answer.

    -Steve

      • To Steve Klein, It was not, does that mean I lost? Lol.
        However, my very first interpretations pushed me to NM in a different working solution that just didn’t pan out in strength of confidence. To understand the beginning will hopefully help solidify the ending area with the blaze, IMO, based on Fenn’s comments. The underlying important thought that you must understand the significance of how you got there or where you are at, for example, to the blaze or thru the solving of other clues and ultimately boots on the ground.
        No one should sell themselves short of interpretations that have led them to where they have determined to hunt, at least that is what I tell myself when attempting to not force my solve to work. Are coincidences just coincidences? Am I stretching an interpretation too much or maybe not enough? Are we not supposed to bend a little as well?

        So you are thinking NM I gather?

    • Thanks Michael,

      Very interesting story. When I first saw the picture of the marker, I thought “Knights Templar”… hhhmmm!

      Perhaps I should tune into KRQE more often. I hope there’s more info coming soon!

    • Did he say it was on the Philmont Scout Ranch? I remember reading about how dangerous it might be trespassing there…

    • He interpreted the letter M on the stone as a Roman numeral for a thousand and the backwards D as minus 500, so as I mentioned above in similar fashion, could the two C’s be 200? All very interesting. Thanks Michael for vid story link.

      -Steve

  30. Whats up..Woody in the house..I’m surprised nobody has found the TC..I thought by now it would have been found..I still feel it is in Montana (treasure state), but I have not searched my area yet..just giving others more time…enjoy your adventures and be safe..

  31. When Forrest was a young boy a man named C.W.Anderson wrote a series of children’s books about Billy and Blaze. They taught kids about horse sense mainly and he would throw in adventures to keep them reading.

    Billy and Blaze (1936)
    Blaze and the Gypsies (1937)
    Blaze and the Forest Fire (1938)
    Blaze Finds the Trail (1950)
    Blaze and Thunderbolt (1955)
    Blaze and the Mountain Lion (1959)
    Blaze and the Indian Cave (1964)
    Blaze and the Lost Quarry (1966)
    Blaze and the Gray Spotted Pony (1968)
    Blaze Shows the Way (1969)
    Blaze Finds Forgotten Roads (1970)

    • Darn….Looks like “Billy” was replaced by “Blaze” after the first book.

      Sounds a lot like how “Lassie” overcame “Timmie” as the star.

      Shoot – if it weren’t for Timmie falling into the well so often, Lassie wouldn’t have a job!

      :o)

  32. i think i found the blaze you can all go see it on google maps not hard top miss open google maps has to be 2d have it on plain map then turn on terrain then turn on sattelite. go to crow heart wyoming follow crow creek up past monment peak it hooks left at 10200is elevation in crow creek you will see fog follow that east a little then theres a gap and if you eye elevation in the bottom right corner says 500feet you will see an image of the chest that dissappears if you zoom in or out i believe that is the Blaze. thank You for Your time

  33. So how far from the blaze is the chest?
    Everyone knows Fenn said “It is not likely that anyone would get that close (12′) and not find it.”
    Edited MW question:
    “If I can find the blase, All I need to do is look “quickly down” like the poem says, and there is the treasure, right? ~ Philadelphia Franklin

    “That’s correct Philly…”f
    I believe it’s between 40′ and 100′. So how far do you think it is?

    -Randawg.

  34. Another MW question:
    Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze? ~ casey

    Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. Does that help? f

    I don’t think anything associated with the Chase is obvious.
    IMO.

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