Meet Up With Forrest on November 2nd….

September 2017

 

 

Forrest will shortly have a new book out. It’s titled “Once Upon a While”. It will be a paperback and sell for $24.95.

Author, and Forrest’s friend, Doug Preston wrote the following Forward for the new book. (republished here with permission from Forrest and Doug)

———————————–

Treasure of Another Kind
By Douglas Preston

I first met Forrest Fenn in the Dragon Room of the Pink Adobe in the late 1980s, where he habitually occupied a table in the corner, which featured a rotating cast of eclectic Santa Feans, including John Ehrlichman, Larry Hagman, Clifford Irving, Ali MacGraw, and Rosalea Murphy. I joined the table as a young, unknown, and struggling writer, wondering how the mistake had been made inviting me among all these famous people. But Forrest Fenn was an outstanding lunch companion, telling story after story that kept the table enthralled, and we instantly hit it off. That was the beginning of my friendship with Forrest, who is one of the most remarkable people I have ever met. Here is a man who came from a small town in Texas, barely graduated from high school, spent 20 years in the Air Force as a fighter pilot, flew 328 combat missions in Vietnam over a period of 348 days, survived being shot down twice, and was awarded a raft of medals; he then retired, moved to Santa Fe, and built a world-famous gallery that put Santa Fe on the art-world map; he ran the gallery for 18 years with his wife Peggy and together they raised a wonderful family. Along the way he also published 10 books (this is the 11th), acquired and partially excavated a 5,000 room prehistoric Indian pueblo, and amassed a peerless collection of Native American antiquities and art.

I knew I was a friend of Forrest’s when, in the early 1990s, he invited me into his vault. This walk-in fortified room, hidden in the back of a closet, was filled with extraordinary treasures—Pre-Columbian gold artifacts, Indian peace medals, a Ghost Dance shirt, the greatest collection of Clovis points in existence, and (later) Sitting Bull’s celebrated peace pipe. Forrest had been a dealer in art and antiquities for years, with many superb objects passing through his hands. These were the things he had kept, the best of the best. Forrest liked artifacts that told stories, and each one had a rich and fabulous history.

In that first visit to the vault, Forrest wanted to show me something quite specific. He explained that he had been diagnosed with cancer. Although it was in remission, the prognosis was not good. He did not, he said, wish to linger in weakness and pain, and he especially did not want to put his family through a long and difficult ordeal as he wasted away from cancer. The honorable and dignified solution for all concerned, he told me, was to end it quickly and cleanly, by suicide.

But Forrest is a complicated human being, and with him nothing is simple. He had worked out a plan to end his life that would, he hoped, give something back to the world and encourage people to explore the outdoors he loved, while at the same time generating high interest, if not consternation. Forrest was never one to shy away from causing a stir.

On the right side of the vault, on a sturdy shelf, sat a bronze casket of ancient workmanship that he had recently acquired. Gene Thaw, the noted collector, had identified it as a rare Romanesque lock-box dating back to 1150 A.D. He opened the lid to reveal a dazzling heap of gold—monstrous nuggets, gold coins, Pre-Columbian gold objects—along with loose gemstones, carved necklaces, and a packet of thousand and five hundred dollar bills.

“Go ahead,” he said, “pick up a nugget.”

I reached in and picked up a massive raw nugget the size of a hen’s egg, cold and heavy. There is something atavistic about gold that thrills the imagination, and as I hefted it I felt my pulse quicken.

“That’s from the Yukon,” he said. “Nuggets that large are rare, worth three to four times their bullion value.”

He reached in and removed the bills.

“What are those? Funny money?”

“No. It’s legal United States tender”—not normally used in circulation, he said, but sometimes these large denomination notes were exchanged between banks to keep their accounts in balance. It wasn’t hard to obtain one; he simply called his bank and ordered it, and a week later it arrived. He tucked the packet back in the chest. The chest also included a vital piece of paper which he showed me: an IOU for $100,000 drawn on his bank, so that he would know the chest was found when the discoverer collected the IOU. He rummaged around in the chest and brought out a handful of gold coins—beautiful old St. Gaudens double eagle gold pieces, along with dazzling gemstones, a 17th century Spanish emerald, and a gold Inca frog.

“Lift the chest. See how heavy it is.”

I grasped it by the sides and could lift it only with difficulty. The total weight of gold and chest was more than forty pounds.

Forrest then explained what it was all about. After his cancer diagnosis, he had begun thinking of his own mortality. The doctors told him there was an eighty percent chance the cancer would return and kill him. So he had worked out a plan: when the cancer came back, he would travel to a secret place he had identified and bring with him the treasure chest. In that place he would conceal himself and the treasure, and then and there end his life. He would leave behind a poem containing clues to where he was interred with the chest. Whoever was clever enough to figure out the poem and find his grave was welcome to rob it and take the treasure for themselves.

The final clue, he said, would be where they found his car: in the parking lot of the Denver Museum of Nature and Science.

He had worked out all the logistics but one: how he could pull this off by himself, without help. He did not feel he could entrust anyone else to assist him. “Two people can keep a secret,” he said, “only if one of them is dead.” He had already written the poem, and he now brought it out and read it to me. It was similar to the poem he later published in his book, The Thrill of the Chase, but not, if I recollect, exactly the same. He tweaked it many times over the years, making it harder.

I said that there were a lot of smart people out there and I feared the poem would be deciphered quickly and the treasure found in a week. But he assured me that the poem, while absolutely reliable if the nine clues were followed in order, was extremely difficult to interpret—so tricky that he wouldn’t be surprised if it took nine hundred years before someone cracked it.

When first I heard his plan, I was astonished and amazed. I didn’t really believe it. But the more time I spent with Forrest, the more I realized he was dead serious—no pun intended. I also realized it would make a marvelous movie: the story of a wealthy man who did take it with him. I pitched the idea to Lynda Obst, a classmate of mine from Pomona College, who had become a hugely successful Hollywood producer (Flashdance, Contact, Sleepless in Seattle). She loved the idea and asked me to write a treatment. When I called Forrest to make sure this was okay and offered to share the proceeds, he gave me his blessing, generously and firmly refused to accept any money, and made me promise only to invite him to the premiere—and the Oscars, if it got that far. I wrote a treatment and sold it to Lynda Obst Productions and 20th Century Fox. While the movie was never made (option available!) I did write a novel based on the idea, called The Codex, which featured a wealthy Santa Fe art dealer and collector who is dying of cancer and decides to take his fortune with him. He buries himself and his fabulous wealth in a secret tomb at the farthest ends of the earth, and he issues a challenge to his three lazy, no-good sons: if they want their inheritance, they have to find his tomb—and rob it.

As the years went by, I visited Forrest many times and saw the treasure in his vault. He often took things out and put other things in; he removed the currency, fearing it might rot; and he swapped out some of the gems for more gold coins and ancient Chinese jade faces. He also took out the IOU, he said, “because I thought my bank might not still be there when the chest was found.” He had worked out a better way, he told me, to know when the treasure is discovered, but he has not shared that secret with me.

And then finally, one lovely summer day in August 2010, I visited him and he brought me into the vault. The chest was gone! “I finally hid it,” he said. He was about to turn eighty years old and still in excellent health with no sign of cancer, and he decided to stop waiting and hide the chest now. This way was better, because he would be around to appreciate and enjoy the ensuing hunt.

And that, as everyone knows, was the beginning of what has developed into possibly the greatest treasure hunt of the 21st century. As I write this, seven of those nine hundred years have passed, a hundred thousand people have looked for the treasure, and three have lost their lives in the search—and yet it still remains out there somewhere, secreted in a dark and wild place, waiting to be found.

This treasure story is emblematic of who Forrest is—a war hero, a man of great generosity, and a truly original human being who lives life to the fullest, does things his own way, and doesn’t worry too much about what others might think. Forrest is, above all, a creator and a teller of amazing stories. In this book he tells thirty nine of the best of those stories, all true, with a note of commentary at the end of each one. They run the gamut from the inspiring and philosophical to the amusing and fabulous. These stories are a treasure of another kind, and some of them—who knows?— may contain more clues to the location of the real treasure.

I have read these stories with enormous pleasure, interest and enlightenment, and I hope you will enjoy them too.


On November 2nd Forrest and Doug will have a book signing at Collected Works Bookstore in Santa Fe.

Lou Bruno and Susan Caldwell who designed Forrest’s last 6 books, and made them happen are the owners and designers of the new book.

I expect there will be an ordering page soon…but in the meantime the book can be ordered from lou@brunoadvertising.com

323 thoughts on “Meet Up With Forrest on November 2nd….

    • this might get people out digging up graves remember he said it was not in a cemetery This is weird but we found a lonesome grave out side a cemetery with a white cross and deer like hornes on it but i refused to dig it up so i hope he has Fenn wright en on something some where why would we need another clue if we found indulgence?

      • sorry my brain is not top shelf these days i re read it i think i get it now but then again probley not but il will try to be there just the same i love NM its always worth the journey there

  1. I must assume what Doug says is true.
    Forrest wouldn’t allow that to be his “Forward” if it weren’t.
    Very interesting! 🙂

      • Ma-
        I’m sure he will…
        And someone should ask Doug…during the Q and A, in a very unthreatening manner…why he said Northern AZ University when he was talking with Tony Dokoubil but said the Denver Museum in the Forward, some 5 years later?

        My guess is that he will not remember telling Tony N.A.U.

  2. While I do not think that Forrest secreted the chest in CO, I am very curious as to why he would choose to leave his car at the natural history museum in Denver. This was a very insightful article, and I am looking forward to seeing what his new book is about. (sorry in advance if I missed that in some earlier posting)

        • Just got home from the museum.
          Surely, I may have missed something, but the only thing that I could see being tied into the treasure hunt would be a totem pole carving located outside on the south side of the building.
          However, there was a gemstone carving named “Gypsies” with a character that looked quite a bit like a well known Fenn searcher…
          There was also a section for bears in Yellowstone, but nothing really stood out to me.

      • I was at the museum this summer and the Gem Carvings of Russian Folk Life by Konovalenko was truly amazing.

        PS I think leaving his car there is only to throw searchers away from the real hiding place in WY. IMO

        • I agree. Park the car at the museum – make people think it is hidden in Colorado – take a train or taxi to the airport – fly to Casper or Jackson – rent a car drive to hidey spot – take his pills, and rest forever next to the treasure. Not sure how to get around the rented car near where the TC is secreted. Have not figured that one out. JDA

          • Didn’t he say something about throwing a bike away once he got to his spot? If he paid cash for a bike in a nearby town, that would leave no paper trail.

          • He won’t need to rent a car. He’ll just throw a rope on a buffalo and ride it into the sunset.

      • The museum has dinosaur displays from Canon City, CO which just happens to show up on Forrest’s Map; coincidence? The plot thickens…

      • “The final clue, he said, would be where they found his car: in the parking lot of the Denver Museum of Nature and Science.”

        Interesting…he specifically says “clue”
        I wonder if it ties into the final clue of the poem or is it actually a 10th clue.

        • More interesting, davzona, is the sentence is not in quotes… yet most of Douglas Preston’s recalling what fenn may have stated are.
          I wonder if this is exactly as shown in the book or only typed out for the blogs to get a sense of the new book?

          • Seeker, good catch.

            I’m assuming that FF has read and approved this Forward. If this info was no longer relevant to the search or never said by FF in the first place, why include it or allow it to be included?

          • Normally, a foreword is not really under the full control of the author. But there is usually a connection between the author of the book and the person who wrote the foreword, and prior to a preface. [ an introduction ]. Where a preface is written by the author.

            Point is… fenn may have left it the way Preston wrote it… with no “Quoting”…
            Without us knowing how it was stated, can we really rely on it being completely factual as a hint / clue, or more likely something said in jest… Not unlike a flashlight and a sandwich as a clue, or showering with jeans on…

          • another note…is that so called quote seems to be a stand alone sentence kinda hanging out there…almost just begging to be noticed. Why not add it to the previous sentences describing Fenn’s plan?

          • Ken,
            again, will this foreword be presented in the book exactly as we see it for the blog?
            I check MW’s and it is exact as here… who knows. But it seem to… in your face to be saying; Denver or CO needs more looking into, idea.

            LOL, then again, there is one person that seemed to take it as such and supposedly is out of the challenge.
            No dedication ~ No cognition, I guess.

      • Hey, pdenver, if you’re going to check out the Denver Museum of Nature and Science, be sure to check out the City Park Golf Course grounds just directly north. I don’t think there’s much to it, but there’s a nifty coincidence worth exploring. Call it the SB 180 solve. If you’re facing east from the museum’s parking lot, the dirt circles of the baseball fields north of the parking lot roughly match the five circles on the right here:

        http://dalneitzel.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/2017-04-16-00.41.24.jpg

        Which would place the sixth on the left somewhere in the golf course north of the parking lot and baseball fields. I checked, and those baseball diamonds go back well into the 1990s, only having recently been removed.

        Obviously there’s other tie-ins to SB 180:
        http://dalneitzel.com/2017/04/17/scrapbook-one-hundred-eighty/

        Obviously there’s been several baseball related tie-ins over the years.

        Again, a bit of a stretch but you never know. The City Park Golf Course goes back over a hundred years, is on the National Register of Historic Places, and has recently been marked for a flood control redesign which would up the timeline for finding the treasure chest to sooner than later.

        Yeah, there’s a lot of reasons to think it’s not there, but if you’re going to be around anyway, might as well check it out.

        • Hello Jeremy P.. Didn’t go to the museum, but rather to enjoy another weekend of camping, and found beautiful trails I’ll take next year. Did things I wanted to do while in the park, too. Elk are bugling, and the Aspen leaves are just beginning to show signs of change.

        • Hi,
          pretty new to the chase. Just wanted to say thank you Jeremy for your posts. You’re a very giving searcher, always very informative. It’s people like you that make me want to contribute to the chase!

      • Hi Dal hope all is well ..

        Thank you f and Mr. Peston for the post. And all you have done with this new book I am looking forward to reading it .
        For one about the post-
        I am shocked:

        Wow I have been emailing f for months about this …
        He has responded once to me about it . I wont say what that was , just that it was a interesting response to a interesting question. But don’t call him Pops , he hates that.
        Any ways , I know something about the Museum and why there. That is why I told Cythina about two trips from my car at Fennboree . It took nine rocks I picked up to show her that . I wiped it away fast so she would remember exactly how it looked . But the reason and how I got to that place is a incredible one. A story I cant tell . It is complicated and it has saddened me . So I will not comment on that here any further. The reason I wrote this is I have been to the Museum more then three times this week. Heck I only live 15 minutes or so from it. I have been writing Mr.Fenn why now for some time and felt as if I had hit a wall . Not because of the poem or how I think it could be . But of how I got to this point – and why ?
        The way I found the information I have and how I understand why he chose the Museum is of a personal nature to me due to what I had seen and learned from the whole of it. This has been incredible. Personally I don’t think I could find the chest . I really don’t think I have the brain power it would take . But , I have had so much fun there looking recently that after I saw this post – it sparked a heart beat in me that made my feet move even faster to share this with you .
        WWH is interesting to me looking through the story line I have is a thing not a place. But this of course is just me writing my opinions.
        I cant believe he told …. f dang it…I wasn’t …
        See I catch him in a lot of blemishes in his stories and over the years wrote to him about them . Like that Bell tolls story , ambulance driver hu f ??
        I have no idea how to write or how language really works as a writer like Mr. Preston or Forrest Fenn would . But I do know how to listen and have been . I am completely shocked this was shared. WOW……!!! f =)) Thanks
        I shared this because you have shared so much over the years and the folks in here may want to see
        the Time magazine under Mr.Fenns desk , the one that he threw Catcher in the Rye on . That one was a good one. ” I just needed time to think” he said. I thought he said he had it all figured out . But the more he thought of him the more he liked him . And reached for Catcher and put it on his desk so everyone could see that he had read it. But it was the time magazine that sparked my imagination at first. Then the chest … who had it who looked at it . All this stuff is exactly what I have been looking for for some time now. II have commented this by mail to f . Know he gets a few from me , but I like him to know where I may be and what I have learned there. He is in a way a professor , except I dint have to pay for all the knowledge. Heck I most likely am wrong about this stuff , and all this could be nothing .
        But if it is not – wow =))
        Mind you all this is just my opinion ..

        Thanks Dal . Hope all is well your ways , I wanted to say a lot more… maybe next time . Take care all .

        Mr.D and Heather

        Ps. f you may be a angle but Im thinking you are more then that .

      • i dont recall any small creeks around the museum been there many times go inside its a great visit thats not to say its not there good luck

    • That is an interesting question, but what is even more interesting than that question to me is this: If Forrest was planning to abandon his car at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science, what were his travel plans to reach the hiding spot from there???

      He couldn’t do a shuttle drive with an accomplice in another car (because “Two can share a secret… etc.”). He couldn’t rent a car (because license plates, leaser agreement paperwork, VI numbers, etc.). He already was no longer flying aeroplanes at the time. Presumably the location was too far to walk (at least from downtown Denver). So what would be the plan to get to the hidey spot from Denver? There probably wasn’t a good plan to be had, which is why Forrest scrapped that original plan and improved upon it.

      • He could’ve taken a taxi to the Amtrak Union Station, gone West into RMNP, Vail, Glenwood Springs, Salt Lake City, etc. by train. Walked, caught a ride, taxied, taken a Greyhound to trailhead in RMs.

    • That is what is so fun about the chase! I can’t imagine it is anywhere except for in Colorado. No other state has ever occupied my mind for the chase. Two roads diverged in the wood; I took the one less traveled apparently.

        • I think Forrest is laughing a bit with this one how would we even know to look for his car or what he drives a jeep i think he said a great poet may know the answer he stands around every day watching the time pass away well for the last 100 years or so any way hes jump starting our minds

      • Something specific. Research will show at least two things that are special AND were recovered by that museum.

        It definately does not mean the chest is in Denver, there is no place within two miles that would hold a corpse for 900 years. Remember, he said he walked less than a few miles from his car to the hiding spot.

        I am hoping that everyone thinks its in or near Denver, this means less competition IMO.

  3. “The final clue, he said, would be where they found his car: in the parking lot of the Denver Museum of Nature and Science.”

    I smell an ego. Or is it an id. I get the two confused.

    Nonetheless, I like Santa Fe in November.

    • Hi Aardvarkbark, could you explain your statement regarding smelling an ego or id. If it was meant to be cryptic and you don’t want to clarify, I understand. It just went way over my head.

  4. I love it! The plot gets ever thicker as the years pass…
    Really cool to get a clear sense of validity from an insider privy to the beginnings of The Chase. Thanks Dal for passing this along, and to Doug for his very clear recollection. And Forrest…you are a tireless rascal !

  5. I’ll have to see if the wifey let’s me make the trip.
    When is the earliest we’ll be able to get our hands on the book?

    • Hang in there Iron, and help me with this…

      Doug said…

      “He had already written the poem, and he now brought it out and read it to me. It was similar to the poem he later published in his book, The Thrill of the Chase, but not, if I recollect, exactly the same. He tweaked it many times over the years, making it harder.”

      So what about the MW quote:

      “I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t. f”

      • Well my theory on that, and I’m sure it’s been frowned upon, is that there is an element of WAITING in it to find the treasure.

        “I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t. f”

        …meaning he could’ve published the book (BAM the poem is out there), and he’d still have time to hide the treasure, because of the element of time in finding it.

        I still believe it will be revealed at night. I understand if people don’t want to believe that, but Forrest “HID” it, and there has to be a way to “REVEAL” it.

        I don’t know if he has a built-in light power source at the chest that glows at a certain time at night, or a light shining on where it is… but I believe that’s how its found.

        • And it could involve a reflection..
          He does have a poem about a mirror.
          At any rate, this should increase interest in the science museum,
          which is a good thing.

      • Spallies-
        I think Forrest did not FINISH writing the poem until after he hid the chest…
        I believe that’s what he means when he says he could have written it….but didn’t…
        It was still a work in progress when he hid the chest…

  6. http://www.dmns.org/

    Denver Museum of Nature and Science is the correct title, and if I said it once, I said it a thousand time, Colorado is DEFINITELY in the Mix of the solution, why? 90 miles from Santa Fe to the border, and more astonishing is the revelation that a person could ride the bus, the TRAIN and grab every Banana on the way… I am suddenly reinforced with my solve.. But; brave and in the Wood is where you win the Cigar, it all starts to make sense.

    Wood as Rail Road Ties and Title to the Gold.

    $3.95 for a ticket to get back to base, that is how he borrows .20 cents.

    Otherwise he was AOL////TTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

      • Sounds good.
        There’s got to be a reason the info is in the foreword.
        BTW. Doug Preston and Lincoln Child wrote Dinosaurs In the Attic about the American Museum of Natural History in New York. He is an expert. A,
        Also wrote Relic a great fiction mystery involving same museum.
        Sorry to belabor this point, he has been one of my favorite authors for years.

  7. It is my guess that Forrest changed his mind about the last clue having anything to do with the Denver Museum. I see it as a BIG rabbit hole, JDA

    • Hi JDA – That museum is actually a huge hint but it has nothing to do with Colorado. So that you won’t throw your hands up and yell foul, I will say it is a hint for the blaze. You won’t get anymore from me.

      • “The final clue, he said, would be where they found his car: in the parking lot of the Denver Museum of Nature and Science.”
        I’m sure Mr Fenn did say that, but with a twinkle in his eye. I don’t believe Fenn would disclose such an important clue even to a close friend.
        The last clue certainly would have been where he parked his vehicle, but since he did not complete his plan, that clue is not available for us to ponder.

        • There is a rhodochrosite mine in Alma, Colorado. Which is beneath WHEELER mountain. When I went to Breckenridge a couple of years ago that mountain was a point of interest because it mirrors Wheeler/Taos mountain. But it was covered in snow at the time.

          • The Sweet Home mine is too high in elevation sadly, as is the entire town of Alma. There is also the Sunnyside mine by Hanson Peak, which also too high 🙁

    • If the clues were supposed to be contiguous, then my guess is that he changed or tweaked the previous clues enough that the car in the parking lot no longer made sense in relation with the rest of the poem.

  8. Well well this is what he has been up to, another book that I will purchase, can’t wait to see what’s inside!!!!!!! I hope it’s good.

    I’m such a fan.

  9. Where is Buffalo Bill buried? Is it really known for sure?That is still being debated, Where is the chest? No one , other than Forrest , knows for sure. What kind of clue is this…really? Just some thoughts of opinion.

    • Buffalo Bill is buried on top of Lookout Mountain due west of Denver, as far as I know. An excellent spot to visit! I highly recommend visiting his gravesite, followed by a free tour of the Coors Brewery in Golden, followed by a short walk over to Woody’s on the main street for the all-you-can-eat pizza buffet! 🙂

  10. Ever get one of those moments where you sit back and think and think again and ask yourself, “What was I thinking?” I sat here thinking about the Denver Museum of Nature and Science and the thought of his car parked in the parking lot. If it’s thought the treasure chest may not be found for hundreds of years, do we truly believe his car would be sitting in the lot that long? No.

    • He’s just saying the final clue would be found in the car where he parked it there. It wont have to be there for 100 years.

          • Aww, pd, I think you gots lots of common sense!

            Ponder this:

            Questions posted 6/13/2014:

            “Forrest,
            You talk about how you worked on, and changed, the poem for many years. As you read it today, are you still completely content with the belief that someone will eventually understand and follow your poem precisely to the treasure?” ~ John

            Thanks John,
            “……No one has any secret information that will take them to the hiding place. It’s in the poem for all to see.f” – http://mysteriouswritings.com/questions-with-forrest-fenn-and-the-thrill-of-the-chase/questions-with-fenn-archive-1/
            ………………………….

            Now did he mislead pore ol’ John??….. Or, did he just consider, what he told Preston, to be unimportant in solving the poem and retrieving the chest?

            I think probably the latter…..don’t let them stampede ya, lady!! 🙂

        • Well, what I mean by that is authorities would find the car later after he’d passed, then searched inside. They’d find that it was Forrest Fenn’s and then find the final clue that would be attached to the hunt. Why I don’t know o.O

        • Why would this be the final clue, surely the first if he wasn’t missed yet?
          I’m another who obviously has little common sense…

          • The entire poem would be left in the car likely in the form of suicide note. This would be how he would kick off the Chase.

          • Hi Blex,
            FF said “The final clue, he said, would be where they found his car: in the parking lot of the Denver Museum of Nature and Science”

            So this is either a mis-understanding by you (Final clue=kick off) or validation of the circular theory IE the beginning is also the end? Which do you think?

    • Where would you have expected his car to be found? By a park? A pull over along the road? Near wwwh?
      There’s no other way to get where he needs to without doing so. Anything else would allow for tracking down too easily.
      I am a bit surprised at the blatant in your face about it. I was actually expecting a parking lot at city hall… public property per say.

      • Fortunately for all us searchers (and most importantly, Forrest) Forrest did not have to couple the task of hiding of the chest with committing suicide. Saves everyone a lot of logistics troubles! 🙂

      • Hello W.R.. Would you be so kind to explain to me how long a vehicle would be allowed to stay in a parking lot before it was towed? Also, would you be so kind to tell me how long the Chase has been going on?

        • Decomposition starts setting in, so by 3 days, it would garner attention. But, those lots are so busy and they do have security, so I think theyd notice even before then. The first day, the police put a tow notice sticker telling you that your car needs to be moved within 24 hrs to 5 days. Sorry Pdenver, my name is NOT W.R. lol couldnt hep myslef lol i have first hand experience with those stickers lol

        • pdenver.
          Park a car at the lot at 6am and you’re in Montana before the doors are locked that day. Probably even be into Canada before the day is out if need be.
          As Kym said. The car would be ticketed that night and could even be removed in the morning depending where in the lot it’s at.
          The question you overlooked is how long does a car at impound stay before it’s searched?
          Or, being the clue is supposedly in the car at the museum then how does it get released to the public with it in the impound?
          What I found fascinating on my last fishing trip was finding a sheep skeleton fairly intact, didn’t find all of it, head and a leg or two wasn’t nearby, but the rest was in a pile 30feet from the road and 3 feet from the trail under a bush.
          Another location a shoulder blade was just beginning the be gnawed on by mice or squirl, and it was near the river bank. Who knows how many had seen it, let alone how many would know what it’s to and just didn’t see it or have it No second thought.
          The moral, Fenn won’t be found by accident.

          Which chase are you referring to? Fenn’ s searcher’s, or the FBI?

    • “– You have said some things in scrapbook entries that seem too bizarre to be true, like the fact that you keep your jeans on when you shower. Are you at times just pulling people’s legs?

      FF: Yes, I didn’t think that comment would fool many people. I was trying to make a point.”

      Why do I feel like sometimes we need to loosen up a bit and cut the guy some slack. Do we really think he would tell his friend a big secret right after he told him that two can keep a secret if one of them is dead. I would think that Mr. Fenn should be allowed to use sarcasm or mess with people from time to time, especially with his friends.

      Or maybe this is …. wait I got it, this is the key to everything!

  11. I’m very excited about Forrest’s new book! I just got around to read “Too Far to Walk” only last week and I’m already hungry for more! I gotta say, Forrest’s scrapbook entries on this site have been so wonderful and I think that it is great that he is refining and compiling them into a new book, because that is how I thought these stories should be treated.

    I missed Fennboree, but would really like to make it down to Santa Fe for this book-signing! (Of course, I confidently plan to find the Chest this weekend, so will probably get to meet Forrest earlier than that! 😉 )

  12. What was it that occurred in Colorado? It may have been something ‘life changing’ – I think of Idaho Springs and Lyons, and where was that School House located?

    In any event; the Autumn Equinox occurs on September, 22nd this year. Isn’t September a special time of the year to the Flyer?

    https://www.almanac.com/content/full-moon-september

    Where are ‘some’ of the others who frequent here? Don’t hear much.

    Thinking out loud…..again.

      • The inscription can also be found at the Teacher’s College, UNC Greeley CO. Fine teaching program offered at that University. The Cowboy state border is only about 40 miles north of Greeley. Greeley is about 50 miles out of the way from #287. Odd coincidence.

        • This is one question that FF actually answered. I ask him where the school was located in an email and he replied that “he did not remember where it was”. Maybe he does but he is not disclosing it if he does.

          • Here is the exact wording, from page 45.

            “Even so, my father always drove about 50 miles out of our way, down a little dirt road to a one-room school house in Wyoming, just to show me what was written over the door.”

            Note: There were MANY places that had that saying “He Who Teaches a Child labors with God in His Workshop.”, and they were in many states. But the one we want is in Wyoming because that is what the book says 🙂

        • The schoolhouse is in Wyoming, that is where he said it is. He said, paraphrased, “We drove 50 miles out of our way to visit a one-room school house in WYOMING.”

  13. Well Blex, here is my fantasy scenario. Forrest parks his car at the Museum. Indulgence is stashed inside his rolling suitcase. He calls a cab, and is taken to the Brown Palace Hotel down on 17th Street. In his Stetson hat and bluejeans (maybe even hush puppies) he fits right into downtown Denver. He can easily check his bag at the Brown Palace, then he strolls across the street to another museum, the Anschutz Museum of Western Art – which is housed in the old Navarre Building. The Anschutz collection is probably if not THE finest collection of Western art in the world. Several, perhaps many of the pieces in the Anschutz gallery were acquired thru Fenn and his gallery. Perhaps Forrest even knew about and had access to the old tunnel connecting the Brown Palace and the Navarre Building. With his connections, I wouldn’t be surprised! From there, he could walk or take a cab to Union Station (it is just a few blocks away). And from Union Station he could get on a bus or a train to a destination of his choice, all in anonymity. I sure hope he drank a Martini at the Brown and skipped the Coors though.

    • Thinking more about this idea… how would he get from the nearest train or bus station to his final destination in the wilderness? Should the hidey spot be within convenient walking distance from a bus stop?

    • I think that the best method for Forrest to implement the original plan of abandoning his car in Denver would be to use the help of an accomplice. Douglas Preston’s preface clearly indicates that Forrest had no qualms of sharing his INTENTION to hide the treasure with close friends like Preston in advance; he just kept the final hiding location only to himself.

      So how about this: Forrest drives up to Denver in his car and a close confidant (let’s just say Douglas Preston as an example) drives a second car not tied to Forrest in terms of ownership or rental paperwork. They drive off to the Denver Museum parking lot together, Forrest abandons his car with the poem, gives a final heartfelt goodbye to Douglas, and gets into the second car and drives off to parts unknown. Douglas can waltz over to get on a shuttle bus to DIA and can comfortably fly home, being none the wiser of where the treasure is ultimately hidden. I think that’s the way I would have proceeded with pulling off a plan like that.

    • I know of those places but it puts his comment no human trails in very close prox out and what should be seen from the treasures hidy spot would be hard pressed from there got to head to the hills just a half witted thought

  14. Just one anonymous bus ride from the museum to Union Station in Denver…. maybe the saavy researcher should be checking their solves for walking proximity to public transit stops connected by rail in the Rockies.

  15. The same inscription can be found at UNC in Greeley, I believe the College of Education. UNC has a well thought of teaching program. And the Cowboy State border is about 50 miles or less north.

  16. Note that the Denver Museum of Nature & Science has only had that name since 2000. In the “early 1990s” meeting with Forrest that Mr. Preston is describing, it was instead called the Denver Museum of Natural History.

    So, though I may be being pedantic, Mr. Preston is not being real accurate with his words. Makes me wonder a bit since the mention of the museum is, in my opinion, the “bombshell” in his text!

  17. It seems to me that if F drove to CO and parked his car, that the treasure wouldn’t be in NM. Why would he drive so far if his special spot was a lot closer? Just thinking…

    • Denver is the largest city in close proximity to the Rocky Mountains. It’s a great central hub to get anywhere into the Rockies from there.

      I think that it would be absolutely clever of Forrest to abandon his car in Denver and then double-back to a spot in NM to fool searchers exactly as you described, JBL.

    • @JBL et al, another question is who else beside Preston was privy all this time to this info! Quick read up on Doug and it sounds like he and his brothers were a lot like Skippy in their youth! IMO

  18. Denver is nicknamed the Mile-High City because its official elevation is exactly one mile (5280 feet or 1609.3 meters) above sea level, making it the highest major city in the United States. Coincidence?

  19. “Inscribed in 1947 on the 15th step after a 1909 measurement to denote one mile above sea level. The mile high mark has been changed twice – in 1969 and 2003, with markers on the 18th and 13th steps.”

    Found this by searching Mile high marker in Denver. I knew there was a marker on the steps of the State Capital Building, but didn’t know it had ever been moved. Wonder if the elevetion has actually changed that much or just the way it was measured.

    Amazing what I have learned doing all the research looking for the treasure.

  20. “Inscribed in 1947 on the 15th step after a 1909 measurement to denote one mile above sea level. The mile high mark has been changed twice – in 1969 and 2003, with markers on the 18th and 13th steps.”

    Found this by searching Mile high marker in Denver. I knew there was a marker on the steps of the State Capital Building, but didn’t know it had ever been moved. Wonder if the elevation has actually changed that much or just the way it was measured.

    Amazing what I have learned doing all the research looking for the treasure.

  21. I figured he might be up to something. This revalation of a new book had my eyes bulging though. This announcement is clear cut and has me excited. His point, be there or be square. Even if someone gave me two Benjamin’s to miss it, I’d still be there. I hope to see everyone there. You too Forrest Fire.

  22. I was reading up on that museum in Denver. Apparently the artist who did all the paintings hid (8) elves or gnomes in the paintings, and left clues on how to find them. Kind of interesting.

  23. For me, the biggest hint here really isn’t a hint. I should have already realized Forrest had planned on “final” transportation that would leave no trace. I’m thinking a horse he could set loose, perhaps to find its way back to Red Canyon on it’s own. Yes, that would leave some rough indication of the location, say a 50 mile radius of the horse’s home, just to pick a number. 😉

  24. IMO, a lot of private pilots keep old beater cars here and there at various landing strips….wouldn’t worry to much about how he had planned to get around, easy to leave the keys in the ignition and figure some kids would take it for it joy ride after the fact….but this was all the original plan in ’88 not summer of 2009. IMO!

    Pretty good insight from Douglas and how there must be a way for Forest to know if and when the TC is found!

    November 2, 2017 can’t wait, this time for sure! Rubbing elbows with old JR (larry hagman) often wondered if F ever tried anything stronger than a martini! lol! Should be a great time!

    • Cholly, I think the beater car concept (or some other vehicle that isn’t registered in his name) is indeed the most likely scenario. Add to that a bicycle thrown in the back, and you might be able to make it to the spot without anyone putting two and two together.

      • @Vox et al, exciting stuff, sure got me thinking. The use of a bicycle would have to be a down hill run, IMO! I’m a bit confused on some of the time lines though….1988 to early 1990’s? Anyhow also wonder if there is something in the TC that would alert someone to a sell/sale such as a very rare coin or a counterfeit coin perhaps….I like the idea of an unrecorded deed to the land still in the name of the previous owner and F has some sort way of keeping the yearly taxes paid for now, the finder gets title to the land!

        Wasting time today reading about Clifford Irving and a fake book about Howard Hughes, also Larry Hagman – what a wild man! Wonder if Forrest remembers the painting of the Owl on the back of Rooster at the Dragon Bar! Has to do with a joke that Larry had told the owner! It’s R rated can’t repeat on here!

  25. All this new stuff. It definitely won’t be a slow off season. Someone once said. No time spent in thought is ever wasted. Here we go. This is fun. g

  26. Just when ya get comfy in the saddle ya see another horse to ride.Giddy-up Buttermilk…Ya’hoooo….some more dusty trails to ride!!!

  27. He could park facing S (New Mexico),, or East facing Colorado blvd, or N meaning Wy or Mt.
    N would also be 23 rd st.
    Sublette county Wy, license plate is 23
    Awww, this is worse than WWWH

  28. 2 things spring immediately to mind as I finish reading this article.
    No.1 – forrest implied he has a dead sure way to know if the chest is found….yet certain this could be in 900 years? How is that possible?
    No.2 – the placement of the chest has always bothered me, such a small chest needs extremely precise clues to get another person there, so it must be a place forrest knows down to the inch…or a place with extremely obvious markers.
    Neither of these points are an attempt to contradict what he has already said, just my musings.

    • Maybe he got frustrated with the pager his staff used to get in contact with him, that he put it in the treasure chest. (Giggle.)

    • Those are really good observations, Danny-Boy.

      In response to a question about whether he will know if the treasure is found, he once said, “…The person that finds it may not want the IRS to know. In which case, I’ll never know it, probably….” How does that square with the above?

      Regarding your second point, I also find that really perplexing. If the markers were obvious, someone might find the chest without solving the poem. If not, someone might solve the poem and not find the chest. Or so it seems to me.

  29. Although the poem was tweaked by Forrest to make it harder…Doug recalls that it was already written in the early 1990’s. Forrest may have made an adjustment after hiding the chest…but it sounds like it was already “complete”. (Short of the actual hiding)
    Also very interesting that Forrest has a way to “know” when/if the treasure is found…this avenue has nagged at me. It has been discussed at length over the years, but most of the scenarios do not seem to address how a few hundred years is taken into account. HMMMM…

    • Ken,
      Seriously, why would anyone take into account a few hundred year from now.. to know the chest was discovered?
      I would think it would fall in to the same comment ” it’s out of my hands”
      Out of his control of nature…
      Out of his control of the finders to do as he/she pleases…
      Out of his control when he passes on.

      I mean, he took out the original IOU knowing his bank many not be around. I also think “found” is not the way to think about it… “retrieved” would mean to be removed. Is fenn relying on the person to tell… or … if we want to go high tech… fenn might be watching the chest??? a wilderness web cam that can see the location?
      LOL that would be a kicker!!! While the world watches an Owl feed its newly born Owlet… off in the distance of the foreground, behind the Juniper tree, left of the rock-butt, next to a white marvelous blaze, and under a tarry stone, the treasure awaits.

      • true true…my point was that according to Doug, Fenn has a way to “know”. Obviously He(Fenn) won’t be there to actually know a hundred years from now. Maybe in spirit…
        It just sounds like there is an incentive somewhere in the plan to persuade the finder to tell all.

        • I’m not tellin… I like to kick over rotting logs just to what the worms squiggle and wiggle…lol But then cover it back up… none the wiser.

      • My opinion is that Forrest left a legal document in the chest that transfers ownership to the finder. The poem does mention “title to the gold”.

          • JDA the idea of title is the final line of the final stanza, and we both agree on that. It only confirms what we know about Lawyers and cleaning up all the details.

            What is the appx latitude and Longitude you search in Wy, I will assure you that I would never go there, but I’ve developed a theory and if it proves true, could pinpoint the X on map in Too Far..ff is handing out coordinates left and right IMO.
            My email is tomterrific1947@gmail.com

            TT

  30. I have a general sense that a lot of people here are placing WAY too much weight on Forrest’s plan of abandoning his car at the Denver Museum of Science & Nature. Keep this in mind: this was a plan that was NEVER implemented and by the time Forrest actually hid the treasure years later his plan evolved SIGNIFICANTLY. Were I to hide a treasure in the Rocky Mountains upon my death, I think downtown Denver would be the ideal starting line from which to kick off the Chase into the entire Rocky Mountains. Denver is the main airport hub of the Rocky Mountains where most travelers from faraway would arrive through. It is also within a somewhat reasonable driving distance to any point within the entire search area (maximum driving time is about 17 hours to the western extremity of the Rockies along the Canadian border from Denver). In my mind, Forrest’s original plan made sense (even though it was not implemented) and this preface changes nothing.

    Remember earlier this year when Forrest released the scrapbook entry about the bingo game and everyone immediately jumped to the conclusion that the treasure MUST have been found? I feel like there’s a little bit of that going on here again.

    Just take a breath people, and keep your eye on the prize.

    • I agree, Blex. Leaving aside any hints associated with the parking story, this is not going to get anyone the treasure unless they’ve solved the clues in the poem.

    • You echo my comment made earlier on this page Blex.
      Fenn would have needed an accomplice to pull off his plan.
      He once said: “What is wrong with me just riding my bike out there and throwing it in the “water high” when I am through with it?”
      Although I can’t imagine a sick and weakened man biking in the Rockies in his final hours.

      • I don’t think that’s so far fetched as to be impossible, randawg. If he planned to do this before the effects of his illness really kicked in, he could probably have managed a few miles on a bike (providing we’re talking about a relatively flat area). But that may be one of the reasons he abandoned the scheme.

    • I agree as well. This new story and forward by Preston is just throwing people off by focusing on the museum and Denver, which probably has nothing to do with a solve. It was a previous idea never enacted. The most compelling part is how the poem changed over the years. Preston does not elaborate on what those changes were. I would love to see the first version he read. Blex, good luck on your search in a few days. I am heading home after my 3rd search in my solve area. It was a very difficult search. Google Earth Landsat images are years old, not up to date or even close. Where I see a distinct rock formation on GE, there is only a jungle on the ground. We searched until we were totally exhausted. My area is wrong, or I haven’t correctly solved the clues. I’m giving up for this summer. Good fortune Blex.

      Franklin
      Inside the Omega

  31. I would bet the attendance at that museum goes up over the next year. Good for the kids in all of us to look at old bones.
    Wonderful that more stories are being published I will be buying the new book.

    I think it is a bit of a rabbit hole to think the treasure chest is near Denver. There are many ways to travel in this country anonymously.

  32. I took my kids to that museum thirty-some years ago. I remember the dinosaur exhibit and perhaps an Ice-age diorama?

    How to arrange to be in Santa Fe on the 2nd and Chicago on the 4th? Hmmm.

  33. This is a giant rabbit hole. No clues or hints will be found in either the parking lot or the museum itself. The statement is the clue: in the parking lot of the Denver museum of nature and science. I also hope this puts to rest the notion that he hid it in 2003.

  34. A couple points nobody is talking about here:

    1) Doug writes “He had already written the poem, and he now brought it out and read it to me. It was similar to the poem he later published in his book, The Thrill of the Chase, but not, if I recollect, exactly the same. He tweaked it many times over the years, making it harder” So Doug has heard an earlier, AND EASIER, version of the poem! Doug, what were the EASIER parts that were removed (someone please ask this question at the event)? Do you remember them Doug? If not, have your tried hypnosis Doug? Who else did Forrest share this earlier, AND EASIER, version of the poem with? All of these people would have a leg up on the rest of us.

    2) Doug writes “I did write a novel based on the idea, called The Codex, which featured a wealthy Santa Fe art dealer and collector who is dying of cancer and decides to take his fortune with him. He buries himself and his fabulous wealth in a secret tomb at the farthest ends of the earth, and he issues a challenge to his three lazy, no-good sons: if they want their inheritance, they have to find his tomb—and rob it.” I think this is very interesting…everything about this would be novel is directly tied to Forrest Fenn so why would the aspect of the three sons being the primary searchers be divergent from the truth (other than the ‘no good’ part)? Forrest has hinted about kids multiple times…saying kids might have an advantage solving the puzzle and then saying he did not want to further elaborate on that point (paraphrase…look up the quote)….well, maybe he is referring to his own kids having an advantage….mainly, his two daughters?? Other kids hints: Forrest has also said the place is safe and a place you can take your kids. I believe he also said something to the effect of ‘show it to your kids’. I believe Forrest Fenn’s daughters, if searching, would have a huge advantage solving the poem….and they might have heard the earlier, and EASIER, versions. Forrest might have wanted his daughters to have some fun with this search. Why not?

        • Feb 2017 Question to FF:
          “I’ve read that you wrote the book and set the treasure hunt to get kids off their little texting machines and outside to smell the sunshine.  Apart from this, are there any other important messages that you wanted to get across?”

          FF Answer: 
          “Yes, I have two daughters who are in their 50s and don’t know who Clark Gable was. I wanted them to know that their great great grandmother watched Comanche Indians run through her barnyard in Ft. Worth trying to catch chickens.”

          It is interesting that the question included information Fenn stating he wanting to get kids off the couch and his response when directly to him talking about his kids not knowing who Clark Gable was. Is this chase intended for his daughters? Why not? I wonder if they searched?

  35. Possible connection between the Denver Museum and Forrest:

    “In 1927, a team led by the Denver Museum discovered two stone projectile points embedded in an extinct species of bison, in Folsom, New Mexico. These Folsom points demonstrated that humans had lived in North America more than 10,000 years ago, hundreds of years earlier than previously believed.”

    Compare with Scrapbook 90 about George Dabich, specifically midway through:
    http://dalneitzel.com/2014/08/16/scrapbook_ninety/

    You can decide whether it’s just coincidence. 😉

    • So that’s how Forrest got his hat. Sorta reminds me of the Indiana Jones movie (The Last Crusade)when Indy got his hat. Lots of similarities between this movie and TTOTC.
      IMO of course.

  36. The Master was quoted in 2012 with a slightly different take on the final resting place for his car…. Below is an article written by Tony Dokoupil, senior reporter, Newsweek Magazine:

    And then a wild card. Just a thing that I heard that I think is interesting and I’ll pass on to you is that, Doug Preston, ah, the writer is a good friend of Forrest Fenn’s and he says that he swears he remembers Forrest telling him that he’s worried that people will find his car. So when Forrest puts his body next to the treasure and dies he’s afraid that people will find his car and the location of the car would be Northern Arizona University. So there could be some significance to Norther Arizona University.

    The Master hated the article from my recollection (because of inaccuracies) but it does leave questions. Doug Preston is mentioned in the article. I am posting the link so you can do your own detective work (http://dalneitzel.com/2012/09/01/the-newsweek-story/)

  37. For those of you thinking the chest might be near Denver, consider this.

    Forrest stated he walked no more than a few miles from his car to the chest. So unless the chest (and a corpse) would survive for a long time in the middle of a city, it isn’t likely to be there.

    The hint, if any, would either be the parking lot OR something at the museum that is special and tied to the place where the chest is. For example, that museum contains special items from both CO and WY.

    BTW, Robert Redford once worked at “The Sink” in Boulder, CO. If Boulder somehow tied to the museum, then you might have something because two hints point to the same spot.

    So if there is a clue or hint in the Foreword, that is how I think it might work. He is not saying the chest is within 2 miles of that parking lot 😀 So if you do visit the place, see if you can pick up a few bones so that you can look cool with the stoners hanging around Denver 😀

  38. Dal- the link above is on your website. When I clicked the link and tried to watch the video linked inside the article, I got a virus that infected my computer. Please try yourself. You may want to delete my post if others have the same problem. Kind regards, Mike

  39. Just one last thought about the parking lot: The car would eventually be impounded for sitting around to long, especially if in the way of snow plows, thus starting a search location of last known where a-bouts type thinking; but I don’t see how it’s a final clue at all. IMO What year were those letters to the editor of the Montana paper happening? I can’t find them? Always thought the farewell note/poem would have been to the news paper in the original plan. IMO
    PS I shot JR! lol!

  40. So the museum is east of the capital…anyone bother to look at the map? IMO, the museum would lie in the ‘non-highlighted’ portion of the map…my copy it is in the faded/blurry section. I would say the museum is not the clue/hint, but rather something there or an association with FF or his hobbies…where do all them dino bones come from anyhow? Interesting links to archeology obviously, but doesn’t unlock anything for me. I disagree with those saying that just because he didn’t actually do it that there is nothing at all there (hint/clue), similar to the idea that you may not have to actually visit a physical location to have ‘solved’ a clue…heck, a new book, new stories, how could there NOT be new hints/clues to come out of all this!? ALL IMO

  41. Tour through the Denver Museum and look for a “quite, private place” such as he describes the hiding spot. There a a few spots that I think meet this criteria. Then look at what is displayed there- some have changed over the years but others are much like they were in the 80’s. The display might be a clue to the real hiding place. Just a way out though from a frustrated seeker.

  42. How about this:
    “And then a wild card. Just a thing that I heard that I think is interesting and I’ll pass on to you is that, Doug Preston, ah, the writer is a good friend of Forrest Fenn’s and he says that he swears he remembers Forrest telling him that he’s worried that people will find his car. So when Forrest puts his body next to the treasure and dies he’s afraid that people will find his car and the location of the car would be Northern Arizona University. So there could be some significance to Northern Arizona University.”

    That was spoken by Tony Dokoupil in his 2012 report on Forrest and the chase for Newsweek Magazine. This was in the iPad edition of that story…
    http://dalneitzel.com/2012/09/01/the-newsweek-story/

    Pretty interesting!!

    What does it all mean?

    To me it means that I should not ever trust second or worse…third party quotes from Forrest…be careful what you believe…

    • I think it means that whether Denver Museum or Northern Arizonia as not important as car and parking lot. Now why are car and parking lot important?

      • Both are close to several modes of transport, trains, busses etc. You do not need a photo Id if you know how to get around it, take my word, Mr Anonymous can get into his mountains’ secret where..

        TT

        • Also these forms of transport would not arouse suspicion like the airlines who are much more attune to metal objects… I came back on AMTRAK 2010 and 12 from California to New Mexico without any inspections or ID hassel I just need the $ and went from Morrow Bay to LA and to Albuq,
          ..

          TT

      • My thoughts have coalesced on this and I agree with the above. I also lean toward the potential for public transportation (without using an ID) being the key takeaway, but even more so than that is what that means on the back end (IMO).

        As far as I know (I’ve only done Greyhound once), you can take a bus from almost any decent sized city to almost any other decent sized city. The issue I see is getting to the hiding spot from that city. Now maybe it’s relatively close to a city with bus service, but I’d suggest that’s unlikely. This was also pre-Uber/Lyft and I don’t know that I’d trust a taxi driver not to remember taking one old gentleman with a backpack to X trail head.

        I’ve tended to avoid Yellowstone as a search area or any of the other National Parks, in part because of the legal question, but I have to assume that there’s some kind of shuttle service or other transportation to get around inside the park which is intriguing (assuming this analysis is accurate) because I’m not sure how many other places in the 4 states would have something like that.

      • When you exit the public transport, you still have to get to the hidey spot, and carrying 42 Lb TC if you haven’t already pre-deposited it. Could have stashed a bike, motorcycle or junker car at the exit spot. A junker car with untraceable title could even be pre-parked at the lot where he left his car. Many plausible scenarios.

        • I’d assume he would have already hid the treasure. I myself can’t figure out a solution to get from the museum to where he hid the treasure without leaving some sort of trail.

      • Maybe he was misquoted and that is why Forrest was upsite with the article.???

        Dear Mr. Doug Preston, were you mis quoted in that Dupopolusis (sp) article saying Arizona State University was where Forrest would leave his car for the final clue? If you were that would be great to know!!! If not, why would you say the final clue was at a different location years later into the chase…
        Thanks in advance Spallies…:)

  43. ok? He puts an iou drawn on his bank in the chest so he will know when it is found. found next to his grave? He’s deceased and needs a confirmation?
    just curious. What did I miss?

    • I’ve been waiting to read responses to what I think is a very legitimate question. Two days and nothing offered. It should be raised at Collected Works signing on Nov 2.

      • We can all only conjecture, but logically it would seem to me that with his prognosis changing by the early 90s (in remission but prognosis still not good) that he was not entirely sure how his story would unfold. Perhaps his changing circumstances was causing him to think about hedging his bets, by hiding it while he was able, and then if things went south, he could go back and “with my last gasping breath I was going to go out there and fling myself on top of that treasure chest”.

        Just a guess, but there is one simple explanation.

  44. Google Earth, draw a straight tangent from said Denver Musuem to Northern Az College in Flag, where is the only 4 states corners on that line?
    Now draw a tangent too a course of 348 degrees NNW from Santa Fe where do you wind uP? The plot thickens and confirms my theory that a pinpoint of marvel gaze is near, try 328 NNW. why has taken so long?

    TT

    • TT
      If you take the distance between DMNH and ASU of 585mi and draw that distance from DMNH to the NW corner of WY you end at N Brown Gulch rd. Since Gulch is another word for canyon, take this road down.
      You come to America Gulch. Americua is home of the brave so no place for the meek.
      The plot thickens.

  45. Douglas Preston and Forrest Fenn together again, lol, can’t wait. The nuggets they exchanged with each other last time we’re worth the price of admission. So why is it that I must go…why it’s the final key to the code

  46. Can’t make it to Santa Fe on 11/02. I wish I could. I have date with my spine surgeon on 11/01. Will signed copies of the book be available at Collected Works? If so, when? Thanks for posting, Dal.

    Semper Fi,
    Windy City

  47. Dal, FF, Anyone, would a message be able to pass to forrest to go down the kindle route for these 3 books, TTOTC, TFTW and now Once Upon a While?
    I’m way outside of collected works posting range so have no opportunity to purchase these books?
    Just asking!

  48. What if f knows the exact day the chest will be found and he’s simply telling the finder to meet him in the Colorado parking lot after to seal the deal. Forrest himself is the final clue. Alive and well, eating a sandwich in his car with his ballpoint pen in hand. He knows they’ll be in Denver, so he’s making the effort to meet them there? I don’t know, I’m stumped. And annoyed, I’m also annoyed.

  49. Both locations Fenn had mentioned that he would be parking his car before hiding the chest are the exact same distance from Santa Fe. Anyone else find that connection and/or interesting?

  50. I wonder which of the 39 scrapbooks were chosen out of the 193 posted?
    The ones that were picked, and any additional info added (if any) will be the real clues.

  51. Well, well, some developments in the chase.

    As has already been alluded to in the above comments, I think leaving his car anywhere was abandoned, because the process became unmanageable. Here’s how it could have gone down. 1) Mr. Fenn predetermines to meet his accomplice at the museum/school. 2) This meeting takes place after he has sequestered Indulgence. 3) The accomplice drives him back to a place close to the final spot, but is dropped off at a different spot than where the poem takes the rest of the world following the poem. 4) Mr. Fenn walks back to the hidey spot from a different direction and expires.

    Problems abound with this scenario, and while plausible, not very possible.

    Are the parking spaces numbered in any way at either of the mentioned drop sites? Finding the car in a particular spot might have had some bearing on the “final clue”.

  52. Cannot be at the book signing, as I will be setting up deer camp the next morning with my son, for the opener on the 4th. Have fun everyone!

  53. I purchased another TOTC book from the Collected Bookstore and Coffehouse as my old one is a little worn. Darn, no chance meeting with Forrest. I’ll be back for the book signing !!!!

  54. Here’s something to ponder that would be very relatable to recent announcments that just came across my news on Yahoo.

    “A 53-year-old Kansas man missing for eight months has been found dead inside his truck at a busy airport — and now his family wants some answers. Relatives of Randy Potter, along with their attorney and a private investigator, believe the former T-Mobile manager died shortly after leaving his Lenexa home on Jan. 17, the last day he was seen alive. Police in Kansas City found his body Tuesday after a foul odor coming from his white 2014 Dodge Ram pickup truck was reported at Kansas City International Airport. Potter’s body, which was found in the driver’s seat, was so badly decomposed that investigators couldn’t initially determine the gender or race, but he was later identified and apparently died by suicide, the Kansas City Star reports. …:

  55. Question for Mr. fenn if anyone is going and can ask…

    Two part question;
    Other than the first two clues, and possibly, the first four clues [ in consecutive order ] indicated or solved… are there any other clues that searchers have mentioned correctly, but possibly not in the correct order, after the first four clues?
    Follow up.. if any… which clues have been indicated correctly?

    Thanks, to whomever does get the change to ask…

    • Seeker, you most likely have watched this Q&A from the Lure already and I have linked his answer to the similar question below. Seems he may have answered your question already or sort of a similar question. Seems people may have told him what the 9 clues represent but not in the right order? I scratch my head over the ” right order” part.

      • It sounds like he said “I don’t know if anybody has told me their clues in the right order” He didn’t say that the clues were right or wrong. It would be a miracle I would think if someone got all 9 clues but got them in the wrong order.

        • Ya the question was:
          Q- has anyone determined the nine clues and what they represent?

          FF- ” Well there’s about 250,000 people that think they have. I don’t know that anyone has told me the clues in the right order”.

          Ya, how is it that they could tell him the right clues in the wrong order?

          Head scratcher for me.

          • Let’s say that before Forrest announced that BIWWWH was the first clue, someone had something in stanza #1 as the first clue, and BIWWWH as clue #2 etc.

            So, maybe what was in stanza #1 was supposed to be the last clue, not the first – Therefore, the correct nine clues were given, but not in the correct order, as far as Forrest was concerned. Just a thought – JDA

          • I think ,or hope rather, I understand what you mean ,JDA. But I think timelines are notwithstanding here , imo . Clues are contiguous non-the-less. If someone figured out the nine clues and what they ” represent” , being the operative word here; then perhaps he means someone applied the correct clues and their meanings in a totality sense but not actual in the correct words they chose as to what they represent. Only that the wrong order means say ie; their meek and brave representations/meanings they stated to him are actually where one is of the other as a clue representation meaning like say brave and meek are reversed to what FF words usage means. So wrong order but correct meanings just applied to those two words incorrectly of those two relating to each other’s word description . So basically the representation interpretation of say meek and brave, they just need to switch their meanings . Just an example not limited to those two words. Could be others. IMO .

            I dunno, it’s just ideas. This answer by him is interesting.

      • I doubt that the answer will help much , Testla. But as you may have noticed it didn’t ask “clues in order” it asked if “other clues… mentioned correctly.”

        Yep, “…told me the clues in right order”…lol… make ya think that the poem’s instruction is not being read as intended for the correct directions for clues to be placed [placement?].

        • Yes, Seeker I know you said “other clues mentioned correctly” . I just would appear to me that would be inclusive to all the nine clues and what they represent ? No? Ok, just looks sort of like he did mean all of them but the order was incorrect. IMO.

          • I’m not holding my breath, I don’t even know if the question will be asked. But what has been stated is some may have the “first for clues” in order… Wouldn’t it be a hoot as to the possible answers?
            Could be a simple, Nope.
            Could be 5 or 6 clues in order.
            Could be at one time or another 8 correct clues mentioned, but not in order.

            What would you think IF more clues have been heard by fenn [ in whatever venue – read or heard about ]?

            Would it make you think there is something wrong in the reading of the poem? [ our readings ].

          • It would be great for a precise question to be asked of what you say and therefore, his answer would be precise too! Precise questions are best. Like lawyer to witness on witness stand in court lol.

            It’s a good point about how one reads the poem. I know from observing here and elsewhere I do read it differently to where I would appear to be out of sync with contiguous but I am still being contiguous. Some say they read iit in a circle though that is not contrarian to contiguous either. I just apply imagination parts meaning figurative and then that of actions in the poem that essentially equates to contiguous but would appear contrarian. It’s just how I understand what FF means by ‘ imagination’. I may perhaps read the poem oddly. But I am odd lol. IMO

    • Would him saying yes help any? No.

      He has stated repeatedly his answers are not going to be useful.

      However a better question would be, can the correct wwwh be determined with just the poem?

      • You may not agree, and I hope to prove soon that I am correct, but my answer is YES the correct wwwh can be figured out from only the poem. JDA

        • “…Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest?”

          How does anyone expect to “find” the chest “just” using the poem… sure you might be able to locate all the clues on a map… but you’re not going to find the treasure by looking at a map, are ya…

        • Al, IMO Nope’s question was 8 clues too broad… Nope asked if the TC could be found from the poem alone. What should have been asked is: Can the correct WWWH be determined from the poem and book alone? That eliminates the multitude of WWWH’s that little Indi might have located on her good map. Among her many was the ONE that is correct.

          Maybe Dal can construct a quick ‘best question’ contest for the Nov.2 event. If this has already been suggested, I apologize. I haven’t read the whole thread.

          • Yes, OS2, general questions begets a general answer. I like your idea of a group designed questions to ask. Concise and precise a question is likely to be the same form in an answer. IMO .

      • Well W.R.
        While fenn has stated he’s not going to hand out clues… or help a searcher move closer or further from the chest… there has been information made available by asking questions [ if fenn so desires to answer them ]. such as;
        wwwh is in fact the first clue.
        wwwh is not a dam.
        He counted the clue when he was done with the final draft.
        Canada , um well, that was an oversight due to time restriction… but, now we can cross off an entire country [ 1/2 of the RM’s ] the chest is not in.
        We know the chest is [ yes, I’m gonna say it ] not submerged – exact quote; “Not under water” however, that was not really a Q&A…
        We know the chest is located in the RM’s, and more than 8.25 miles from the northern limits of SF.

        I could go on… but I think you get the drift.

        • Context seeker, keep it in context.
          You want to ask how many correct clues have been solved.
          If you can say this information will provide insight to your solve, do tell. Otherwise it’s saying there’s smarter people out there.
          You want to know what other clue has been solved by randomness.
          He told you this already where searchers are within 200 feet of the TC.
          Someone asked at one of these for him to say the 9 clues… well how’d that work out.

          Besides the dam, none of these are useful hints. The dam reasoning was because people thought that was wwh and were apparently looking around the base, which doesnt make sense to search to start point, but then again it doesnt make sense for people to raft down rivers looking for this either.
          Common sense would say it was never part of an outhouse, cemetery, or other structure and Fenn stated the TC isnt there, but that doesnt mean one of these isn’t involved, just the TC isnt there. People then take it to mean if there’s a cemetery involved at all or structure then it’s a bad solve.

          The other thing most of these have in common is that Fenn offered them without being asked.

    • Since it’s a book of Scrapbooks… see if you can get him to say whether there’s any clues in this book, thus answering the age old question of whether his Scrapbooks have had any clues in them all along. 🙂

      • I think there is hints in the scrapbooks and that is why he is putting them into a book lol. Maybe half are and half aren’t. IMO . I mean, why republish them into a book if they are already available ? Just my own odd way of thinking . IMO.

      • I can think of a number of reasons for a printed book, even if it’s just to contribute to the historical record. But let me tell you why I think this might be the most exciting book he’s produced, from a treasure hunter’s point of view. This is why everyone should be clamoring to purchase it: He rewrote Scrapbooks.

        It sounds like old information, same old information, but it’s not. It’s new. And that’s a big deal if you’re into Sherlocking for clues. There’s a wealth of new information there, in the edits, and here’s what you should really be looking for: What’s missing. What was taken out.

        It’s not what he put in to them. It’s what he removed that matters. Some of it may be typos, general clean up, things of that nature. Discard. What you should really hone in on are the things that make you wonder why it was removed. Those are the gems, because those are things did merit inclusion in the first draft, for some reason, but didn’t merit inclusion in the second draft, for some other reason. That’s objective, time-stamped material, begging for analysis. Maybe the reason it was removed is that no longer applies, so why did it apply back then? Maybe he was dropping a hint — at the moment.

        There’s all sorts of things you can think about when things are rewritten. The takeaway here is that it is new information, and that’s pretty exciting.

        I’m going to buy the book just for that kind of sleuthing, and you should too 🙂 Anyone who’s not excited about this book probably isn’t paying attention to details.

        • On the other hand…
          How many who purchase the original book, or even the second book, bother with; blogs, or are tweekie birds, or play angry Hitchcock, or post selfies on face the nation, or build their own vertical fake farms, with real artificial cattle, a john-deer wanna be tractor, and hoes.

          Maybe this is just a way to have the SB’s stories available for those who like to read books… and not so much for the electronic circuit board heads?

          Then again we have more than two hundred hints and clues now, right? What’s the difference if we get a couple more hundred or so…
          I just feel bad for all those who wrote books telling how to solved the poem’s clues. Ha! maybe they will write another book as well.

          ‘How to find Forrest Fenn’s Treasure in Four-Hundred Clues or Less.’ [the sequel]

          First ten buyers will receive a free T-shirt with a large question mark on the front [sample ?] and all 400 plus clues on the backside… magnifying glass sold separately… Order your HtfFFTiFHCoL book today and you’ll receive the first worthless book at no extra charge… just add 49.95 extra for shipping and handling.
          *Online purchase only, can’t sell a one in any stores*

        • Jeremy and Seeker, all good points you make. That’s why I asked or really more so said ,why? Because I think there are many many points to garner from his new book. In my opinion , I think perhaps there will be more ” sprinkles” in this book than the other pertaining two prior.For all the potential reasons you elucidate here. In my opinion, based on that there is purpose to everything affiliated to this TC hunt that he says. To me the scrapbooks have value and always have, agreeable or not , To me, this is basically him pointing this out by putting this book together. IMO .

          However by what standard a horse will speakith , there’s a patent pattern by the sound of it. Sadle up! Lol.

      • Jeremy, I think some SB’s have very subtle/clever language that hints of the path to the TC. Earlier today I put something on Odds&Ends about the spice drawer SB & its focus on cloves, because clove has a somewhat arcane meaning, which is repeated frequently by other indirect words in TTOTC & SBs. I haven’t been able to nail down the WWH or Brown or the Blaze with high confidence, but I feel very sure about identifying some special features between those 3 points. And I think I’ve gained some skill in how ff plants words in his comments to imply something significant, though he is often toying with words and laughing aloud to himself. I often laugh too. So now I am sifting the sands again, focusing more on the big 3.

  56. oh plenty of places to look to find something to enjoy is the end where the begining is is it of any value today the reason is making sense but a hint is many times found behind the curtain at least my brain has to say i hope we never have to go looking for Mr Fenns car id stay at home but its just to much fun out there in the world and i am alive so why not live some times i dont even make sense to myself

  57. We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. T. S. Eliot

    This Eliot quote must relate IMO and applies to, an overwhelming need to have WWWH correct, but why if the Little Girl from India cannot get further than that and the next clue? Why? is it imperative we understand..it..WWWH…completely and she cannot get closer?

    You must not underestimate the value of the complete dimension of that first clue? Why? Because it is the reference for all that will fallow; mispelled in honor of an ff quote. Now Knowledge is on the l edge of the marvel gaze and look quickly down is where you will see the Blaze, not up.

    Between 10,200′ and 5,000′ therefore, Indulgence is near a wimpy mountain, IMO near, yet the chest is how high? Max 10,200.. Ask ff how close is near a mountain top and you can truly eliminate much of the search area…if he will answer, without using his; to an ant analogy of ocean being the size of your toilet bowl.

    After reading the Thrill Book, I felt sure it (WWWH) had a double meaning, after all it (WWWH) was not WW1 as stated by ff in regard to “For whom the Bell Tolls” but perhaps it was the second WWII or another correct meaning, but only in terms of Longitude, so if we are to draw an X or + on the correct map from WWWH why it must be understood in each dimension, the Latitude and Longitude, after all we are dealing with a very competent navigator who didn’t just fly planes using maps, he was both pilot and Nav officer.. so using grids, steering a tangent on a compass to a course and checking for his targets on set Latitude and Longitude coordinates was something he did well and often.

    If he felt like an Architect after writing the poem, it is because Architect’s use 2 dimensions to illustrate a 3 dimensional structure.

    The ultimate question to ask Forrest on Nov 2nd: “Is there a layer of longitude and latitude inculcated, implanted or instilled in his poem.”

    If there is I know where it is…..maybe?

    Ponder this idea, what is the difference between know lege and wisdom? It is IMO; like someone owning a horse, that is analogous to or like knowledge, riding and controlling that horse is Wisdom,.

    Tom T

    • TT, it is funny you mention this as I have recently been thinking of a different way to attempt this poem. Most people will likely shun this idea and I currently only see it as not probable but possible.

      FF said “The treasure is out there waiting for the person who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.” f

      Could it be possible that the clues, though contiguous directions do not create a contiguous path but an X on the map? The only letter in the alphabet that is missing is X. What if we need to create the X?

      The first few clues, possibly the first stanza, would create one line. The second set of clues would create the other. If this is the case the past tense of If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, would seem to make sense. You have been wise by drawing the X. Look quickly down, your quest to cease, – Look down at the map. But tarry scant with marvel gaze, – Now that you found the X do not stare out it, hurry and go get it.

      Again, I think this is possible but maybe not probable. I just like to try and look at the poem at different angles. It would take an architect though to create the X from a poem I would think.

    • Tom T,

      As a young lad taking the required Shop Classes (which I do not think is done any more) I learned about mechanical drawing. I was pretty good at it. So good in fact, that my Shop teacher encouraged me to do more. Alas, I made the fateful decision to enroll in the “college curriculum” to prepare my mind to think along those lines. What does this have to do with the price of tea in China? – you may be asking yourself. I have begun to wonder also if there is a Z axis involved in the poem, as you have mentioned. What if being in the right frame of mind means seeing things in the poem structure because you have to “see” them in your mind, because the paper the design is on cannot show you that third dimension. Your mind must do some mental gymnastics to “see the whole picture”. You have to connect all the “dotted lines” in your head to see the 3D mechanical drawing on a piece of paper – perhaps something akin to that way of thinking is needed to see what Mr. Fenn built in his poem.

      Of course, this is just my highly speculative opinion.

      • swwot, you are on the same wave length as me, this exercise in imagination reminds me of puzzles where you must focus on 2 dimensional objects but see a third in the recesses of thought, only when that subliminal message reaches your conscious thought do we become aware of a subconscious message left to be discovered, a hidden meaning, ideas are best imparted in subliminal HINTS, that is what people see in modern art, pure subject reality created through ones own imagination.

        That is why T.S. ELLIOTT quote is so profound, or as ff said written with such profundity. The message of another meaning is clearly infered.

        TT

        • if i could understand what you guys are talking about i would have a head ache.

          the greater part of knowledge is to have a bird brain.

        • Tom Terrific,

          I’m still working out my 3D solve of the 2D poem. I am uncertain what all of the following potential bombshell may cause, but I am starting to come around to the thought that Mr. Fenn’s poem only has three – count ’em – three geographical points on a good map. All the rest of the clues are directional or descriptive in nature concerning the 3 set points.

          In my opinion, the only three points we need concern ourselves with are 1) WWWH, 2) HOB, and 3) the blaze. If, and I know it is a big if, this is so, and we concede clues are attached to geographical points, that leaves 6 clues unaccounted for. This is part of what I am still working on.

          Maybe this will trip someone’s switch and they’ll be able to stride confidently into the wood and pick up Indulgence. Or it may be so much drivel.

          • Almost on the same page with you swoot but I believe that HLAWH is also a geographical point of reference.

  58. Hey everyone, I have a question….. who all is planning to attend the book signing on nov. 2nd ? I was just wondering and thought I might… depends on the circumstances at the time….. I have the first two books signed, why not one more?
    Just tossing around the idea….. until next time… see ya

  59. To make travel plans it would be helpful to know what time on the 2nd this is. Collected Works doesn’t have it posted yet to their calendar. Does anyone know?

  60. Does anyone know if we’ll have to make reservations for the event or will it be first come first serve? Just want to make sure I don’t make the trip to just get turned away…

    • Tommy-
      There are no reservations…The bookstore has a pretty sizable stage area. When they run out of chairs folks just stand…
      It get’s crowded but I’ve never seen them turn folks away…although I suppose that could happen if they exceed the Fire Code restrictions for the number of people allowed in the store.
      Worst part about events there is the parking. It can be hard to find a place nearby…
      My advice…show up plenty early and bring something to read while you wait…

  61. “Once Upon A While”

    Forrest is the master of planting hints. So it occurred to me that the pattern of the stars on the front cover of the new book might be a map. It surely would not be in scale, but as an illustration, it seems to have a pattern. The smaller stars may resemble a road or the flow of a creek. The big stars may be representative of the location of major clues on the map, such as WWWH, home of Brown, blaze and so forth.

    Just an idea, not even my strong opinion.

    Franklin

  62. I’m really struggling with this line from the forward. Is the poem and its clues straightforward or tricky? Hopefully, we can get an answer Nov 2nd…

    “But he assured me that the poem, while absolutely reliable if the nine clues were followed in order, was extremely difficult to interpret—so tricky that he wouldn’t be surprised if it took nine hundred years before someone cracked it.”

  63. From “The Lure” Q&A:
    “The fact that nobody’s found it I’m frankly surprised. But uh I would hope that somebody would find it before too long.”ff

    • Even when it’s not covered in 4 feet of snow, the rain forest it’s hidden in limits your search time unless you like being wet and miserable. Not a problem if you know exactly where it is like Forrest does but no fun when 5 out of 7 days a week are cold and rain soaked. Then my $1,300 waterproof metal detector leaked and took a month to get the warranty replacement coil. Getting into the 30s at night now and had 4 inches of snow 3 nights ago that melted by noon. See if I’m allowed to post yet, last time I tried I kept getting server errors and could not post. I may be blocked by jealous fools here too.

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