Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Thirty Eight

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Thanks…

 

dal…

605 thoughts on “Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…Part Thirty Eight

  1. Dal picked the perfect time to start a new Odds n Ends, cool words like “grappling” notwithstanding.

  2. Timely computer scientist joke: why do computer scientists confuse Halloween and Christmas? (No fair Googling the answer!)

    • Good effort, Spallies, but missing the CSc connection. It’s frankly remarkable. 🙂

    • Because 00101110100011110 0000100 110101100100, 01000111000011110000100 010 11111000101010101001010!

      That’s one’s a classic!

        • There are 10 kinds of people in the world;

          those who understand binary, and those who do not!

          (Please forgive my 2-bit humor).

          • Fennatical: Too many grey cells for me to remember, so I had to refer to my handy but yellowed EBCDIC and ASCII desk reference to be sure. But you are right, 10 in either world.

        • Haha, yeah Zaphod, I am very much programming-illiterate and was unsuccessfully trying to just fit in.

          Had the series of 1’s & 0’s I typed been actually fed into a computer, I may very well have been responsible for causing global Armageddon!

          I really just wanted to hear the punchline to your joke.

        • Hi Blex: okay, now that it’s Halloween, I’ll tell you the punchline:

          Because Oct 31 = Dec 25

          (octal vs. decimal)

  3. Fenn said: “Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f ”
    The biggest pic in TTotC is the Lanier’s School class of ’36 pic on page 18. One oddity for me has always been the image of the wrench on the kid’s head to the left of Fenn.
    A wrench also appears on Skippy’s “flying machine” drawing on page 51.
    Could a wrench somehow be significant in helping to decipher the clues?

    -Randawg.

  4. Dal—– I have a problem. I want you to take charge of the Leprechauns (also know as the Boys). Better yet lets give they to Desertphile! All he needs is a pointy hat and he would look just like them. Anyhow….I have to either let them go or find someone else to house them. The’re driving the Deputy and I loco. Now that I think of it…..Desertphile might be a better fit…..

    Anyhow this can’t go on much longer, you see this is not the first time I have captured Leprechauns. Oh no! You see I grew up in Denver back when weeds were dandylions. I grew up at 1970 Fairfax and walked to Park hill Elementary School to get my learnin…

    That’s but a short skip and a jump to city park where there are all sorts of Leprechauns hiding about everywhere. I’m not kidding! Be very careful if you go leprechaun hunting after dark there in the park, or you will be mugged.

    Anyhow, my brothers and sisters all went to East High. When we didn’t have much to do…..My older brother..who had a car that looked like the bullet…would drive us to city park. There we would drive across the grass up close to the lake. Then we would make a trail of bread crrumbs leading from the lake behind some trees and then towards our car.

    My brothers and I would have that big car door open and be hiding behind it. If we could be quiet enough, somebody was sure to come along. Most of the time it would be a duck or a swan, which we would catch and put in the back of the car. Then we would repeat the whole process until the back seat was full and them we would take them home whereby we released them in our back yard. It was great fun.

    Now not very often, but once in a while, instead of a fowl coming along picking up our bread crumbs…….there would be a Leprechaun! I couldn’t believe it…but I was only about five and so I didn’t know any better than to think they didn’t exist.

    So any hoo…Here would be this Leprechaun not paying any attention to anything else but picking up the bread crumbs one by one, putting in his little sack. (Picking up bread crumbs and drinking “always save” coffee (you paying attention Mr. f) while you have so much gold is crazy! But the’re Irish you know.

    Well when they got close enough to the car we would jump them and a wrestling match would ensue. Unfortuately though they always would get away before we could get them in the car. No pot of gold for us. We were as poor as church mice.

    But anyhow, the Denver Museum of Natural History happens to be right there next to where we use to play football. They know there are Leprechauns about city park….just ask them….I double dog dare you!

    Dal or Desertphile, please take them off my hands. I truly believe they know where Mr.f’s secret place is. Please…or I will have to let them go.

    I have got to go….. The boys are in the Kitchen cooking breakfast. They have all my sharp knives, and cutlery shattered all about. One of them it looks like… took out all the spices (they are really into spices) and is shaking Black pepper (you still awake f?) all over the scrambled eggs

    I’m afraid my whole place is genna go up in flames, because I heard them laughing and saying all they needed was a little Bacon grease and the whole place would be cookin…..Call my Deputy!

    • Sherif Billy…I’ll trade you your leprechauns for my Sasquatch. He doesn’t cook…hope that’s ok.

        • Oh yes, he has very soft fur. How councidental you should ask. I have a ball of spun sasquatch wool…I’ll include it in the trade.

          • Sandy, How large is the ball of spun sasquatch wool? Is it so large, it doesn’t fit thru the door?

          • How did you catch that sasquatch anyhow? Do they like the wetlands in the forest? I personally would like Mr. f to give us a dissertation on the different types of wetlands and which are the best for fishing downstream. Conservation is in vogue you know. The Sherif is going to have the “boys” do trash pickup along the highway to get all the beer cans and trash out of the creek by where we found them.

    • and Good Mornin’ back atcha, eaglesabound 🙂

      and Good Morning to pdenver too, tbh 🙂
      and GM to voxpops also – who’s been searching for a grumps dalek lately, btw 🙁

      oh, and GM to you too Blex ( ..coincidentally 🙂 )

  5. Is there anyone on this blog who considers the timing of the poem and context of the hunt prior to becoming widely popular and believes that the treasure is within 15 miles of santa fe? If so, reach out to me as I’d like to talk more.

    • I’ve always thought that the box was very close to Santa Fe..in fact I also believe that Forest will know exactly when someone finds it….

      • FF knowing when a searcher finds the treasure has intrigued me also. Batteries don’t last this long so there’s got to be a visual means of checking it’s presence.

        • I always thought that this referred to a very strong incentive within the Chest itself, rather than a webcam or the like. But I guess we’ll see?

  6. How can we arrange the prisoner exchange? The boys can’t fly because they don’t have any papers. I’m in Kansas just off the Oregon trail. If I follow the trail and drive them, will it take me close to you ?. I’m afraid when I take Mr. Sasquatch in my pickum truck it might be like a scene from Harry and the Hendersons!
    Is Dal going to the book signing? Maybe you could sent him with him and I could drive the boys out that way.

    • I’ll be at the book signing. We’ll make the swap then. Maybe we can formally deputize him into your search team!

      • Sounds good, it’s a deal (I hope you know what your getting into…They’re too much for me and the Deputy.)
        I’ll be wearing my badge so you can find me.

        • Sherif Billy and my Deputy have important law work to attend to…. So we will sign off for a bit.
          Until then…Happy Trails to all

          (Just wanted to let you know I haven’t had a stroke or a Conniption fit)

          • Sheriff Billy,

            I have a few Banshees around, maybe they can help in getting rid of your leprechauns and no travel is needed.

  7. This is all paraphrased from my armchair, & I welcome quotes & corrections, and of course, ideas.

    I think ff said the finder won’t know if the first clue (WWWH) is correct until he has found the TC…. Which seems to mean that there are multiple places that could match the clue descriptions & sequence. If so, a great deal of BOG trial & error must occur.

    But maybe I don’t understand his statement because he also said the path would be certain for the one who knows. So I ask, does ‘found’ mean the physical possession of the bronze box, OR, the map knowledge of its location? Let’s say ‘precise’ is within a 25’ radius.

    I do not think the poem will take you “directly to it”. (Hope that comment doesn’t get me moderated … I am not calling Fenn a Liar!). I think the bronze box may be well outside the 50’ circle, but the true seeker will have some confirmation that he is at the right small-destination spot (maybe a 500′- 1000′ circle). He might know that because the blaze will not just be some geographical anomaly or some Forestry marker, but will have some very personal Fenn mark or blaze on it that the seeker will recognize. Non seekers might stumble upon it by accident. Just wondering.

    • OS2, you remember correctly:

      “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f”

      First off, I have to point out that the comma in the second sentence should really have been a semicolon.

      Secondly, I have wrestled between statements like this against other statements Forrest has made regarding how the person who finds the treasure will go there with “confidence”. After my first failed BOTG trip (and many more afterwards) I honestly don’t think I’ll ever again move with the confidence that Forrest describes. I think other searchers on this blog have come to that same conclusion as well. It’s interesting to sometimes try and balance these Forrest quotes against one another.

      Goofy has provided a lot of good insights on this blog, but he has been very adamant about his opinion that a Chaser is supposed to only determine WWWH and then go to that spot and only then will the rest of the poem manifest itself. It’s a cool idea, but whenever I think about that line of searching, Forrest’s statements about analysis and moving with confidence continually make me shoot down that concept. But maybe it’s somewhere between those two extremes? I don’t know… and no one will for certain until the Chest is found.

      I don’t think I’ll ever be as confident as I was on my first (failed) BOTG search, but nevertheless I plan to sally forth and head into the Rockies again this weekend, for the weather forecast seems promising! What else can we do? 🙂

      • Blex, I feel your pain. And I completely agree with the difficulty in feeling “confident” about one’s solution, regardless of what that solution is.

        I have a definition for the phrase “warm waters halt” that’s different from anything I have read here. Yet, this “wwh” geographic solution leads to a place wherein all subsequent clues fit fine. I have narrowed down the chest location to a one hundred by one hundred square foot area.

        But I have no plans to go there, specifically because I don’t trust that my unique definition of “wwh” is the same as FF’s definition of “wwh” (or any other clue).

        Here’s what concerns me the most >>> that Forrest’s meaning of “wwh”, and other clues, will mean nothing to anyone but him. The meanings will be so off-the-wall, if we ever learn what they are, we’ll react: “WWH meant THAT? You’ve got to be kidding; what does THAT have to do with “warm” or “waters” or “halt”?

        So I’m not to too keen on “confidence” anymore.

        Ken (in Texas)

        • Ken TX,
          Yep, lol what we think something means vs. what fenn has it meaning… if we don’t understand that, we don’t have any confidence, right?

          This is where I’m kinda stuck… everyone says their wwwh is because of, research about this or that [outside the poem], something from the book {making the book holding the answers} or guessing we need a single thing to start with [ such as a state, idea ]

          I’m wondering about the comment… if we have the first clue, we’re 1/2 way there [metaphorically] … might mean, if we understand the first clue… we have 1/2 the clues contiguous with the first clues answer.

          Basically i’m thinking, for example; stanza 2 holding 3-4 clues that gives a single location for the first clue as they are combined/not separated from each other. [ducks in row, line of thinking]

          If we’re looking for a basket of fruit among many baskets, do we only look for an orange because that is first on the list of fruits to find the right basket? Don’t we need to know what the other fruits are as well before the correct basket is known?
          So, metaphorically… to nail down the first clue [of many], we might actually have 1/2 the clues understood because, they construct, pieces together, are contiguous to each other in one basket… certainty of the location beforehand… Then the path now become direct.

          *How many clues does it take to get an answer? “need to know where to start”

          Well, in theory anyways.

          • If you can solve clue 1 and 2 and do other research you can find everything except the blaze in my opinion. Our solve could be wrong but it really fits to the B.

          • Trailblazer,
            Don’t take this the wrong way… I don’t care about your solve. I’m more interested in the procedure you took to come up with a solve in the first place.
            No need for specifics on what is what or where… just a method of how it all came about. Did you pick a state first, did you read in a fishing guide about warm waters, did hoB help with wwh, you only figured out the clues by BTOG… It’s hard to understand your thought process when we don’t know how you went about it.

          • Honestly we were going to look in Colorado but by accident found WWWH. I can’t tell you anymore because I don’t want you in our spot till next summer. We are searching today and if we don’t find it. Next summer we are going in and 3 days after we start our search if we don’t find it we will post our solve and we will watch the searchers arrive. Possibly even the media. I know Forrest doesn’t want it found but deep inside I think he does. I camp and hike all summer normally so I just can’t keep searching year after year, it’s making me crazier then I already am, and spending more money then I have. I’m also thinking it was found. Just my gut feeling. You should be able to figure out the spot with the clues I gave.

        • Blex-
          I get email nearly daily from folks who are incredibly confident about their solution. They tell me that they have solved the poem and their confidence cannot be swayed. “It is THE solution. Everything matches and everyone else is simply too simple minded to see it”, they often tell me.
          Their announcement is frequently followed with a statement like:
          “I sent my solution to Forrest but he hasn’t responded and I take this as proof that I am correct. I am leaving to get it in two days.”

          Then I usually never hear from them again.

          Personally, I have only had confidence once. That was my very first search, down in the Rio Grande Gorge. Long before Forrest ruled that deep scratch out. Today, more than six years later, I see the folly in that solution. But at the time, it all seemed exactly correct and I couldn’t believe I was the first person to figure out Forrest’s great riddle. I was brimming with confidence. But of course, I was incredibly misguided by my own lack of knowledge.

          So Forrest’s “confidence ” statement is curious to me as well. In fact, I sometimes wonder why I should bother searching when I have no confidence…when I don’t know where the search will take me precisely or when I only have one or two clues connected and hope to find the rest once I get there…

          But then I remember that it’s not about “finding” the treasure, it is about searching for the treasure…and I always have fun doing that…always!!!

          • Yes sir ! That is the gift! I always have that pre search excitement…and no matter the outcome…I return home content.

          • Thanks for sharing, Dal (and Ken & Seeker too). I feel like I am right in the same boat in that I don’t think I will ever be as confident as I was on my first BOTG trip.

            But apparently, I have some amount of perseverance, as I just got home this evening (treasureless) from what I am pretty sure is my last BOTG trip of the season. Actually, I feel lucky that I was able to get one more in; the snow is definitely starting to invade the Rockies; one more big snow-dump soon and open season will be definitively closed.

            I also have to agree, that in going to my latest spot and searching around today the fun and the thrill of the Chase were still strong! And even though I did not find the treasure, I at least achieved the personal goal of crossing off every reasonable possibility (IMO) regarding my WWWH. I think that’s a good place to be going into the long, snowy season. I now have plenty of time to accept the fact that my WWWH was wrong in all possible aspects and can possibly start looking for another. We shall see what the future holds. I am still committed to submitting my first solve write-up’s to the blog over the Winter too.

            It makes me smile that I spent the summer going on a real-life treasure hunt! How cool is that? 🙂

          • I like this post Dal.
            I hope I will never be one of those overconfident searchers but I have actually been tempted to send you such an E-mail.
            Each new search has made me more confident, not less. And my last search trip was my most confident of all.
            It’s a frustrating feeling to want to share what I’ve discovered so far but at this time I can’t.
            You know Dal that eventually one of those crazy E-mails will be from the actual solver of the poem and the finder of the chest. How exciting is that?

            -Randawg.

          • It is frustrating when you think you have most of the clues nailed. But I’ve learned now it’s best to offer nothing. I myself gave up to much and quite possible may see others in the same search area come spring. I was even foolish enough to ask Dal to join us in our solve. Think he directed that post to me but could be also to the daily e mails he gets from everyone else. I think next year could be a record year for searchers based on the amount of books being sold and lots of publicity. With so many new people coming aboard, like me. I think it could be found next search season. Good luck with your solve.

          • Why do you think Forrest called it “The Thrill of the Chase”? – Not, “The Thrill of the Find?” Obviously, for the one person who does find Indulgence, it will be the thrill of a lifetime, but for all of the rest of us, I am happy with “The Thrill of the Chase”. JDA

          • JDA,

            The Trill of the Chase is aptly named,

            You get the trill possibly pointing to the chest and you need to get there before other’s, as in the chase or the race

            CharlieM

          • Dal. It seems that everyone needs that first failure before the realism of the task is fully appreciated. Forrest did a good job in creating clues that can easily fit in many places in the mountains. That makes it very hard to proceed with confidence after the first failure.

      • Good morning blex, we think we figured out the first two clues early on 3 months ago. Through research on google earth and many miles of driving and walking we think we have every clue in place. And believe me, you better not be meek, really brave and quite bold. Also you will be cold. We hope we can now find the blaze. That’s the hard part. We are going in this morning, we are only here because we have had a great Indian summer. Snow this weekend in the Rockies. We are moving with confidence. But haven’t figured out the blaze. So how confident can you really be….

        • TrailBlazer,
          Wouldn’t it seem, that by having 8 of 9 clues understood that the blaze would be understood as well, by this point [ if correct with those 8 clues ]? No hunting a large sq. footage area, no guessing what the blaze coulda shoulda woulda be?

          If we follow the design plan correctly… shouldn’t we know where the last nail goes -?- prior…

          • Hi Seeker – î feel really good about the blaze I’ve found. It’s in the poem and has been written about by Forrest. The blaze I have found is as precise as it gets. The issue I have is that there are three potential spots where the chest could be sitting. All are close to each other, all are found in the poem, all have been written about by Forrest, and they are all small areas. If I was a wee bit closer to the Rockies, I could check each spot to determine if I’ve followed the path correctly or if I need to recalculate.

          • The blaze could be numerous single objects. I have some ideas of what we may look for. We have the area with a direction from Forrest (his poem) at the point where we think Forrest left his sedan. At this spot the clues heavy loads high water, no-paddle up your creek and end is drawing nigh. They are right here and they are not vague. We also have HOB. I can only say, I honestly think we are there. I’m exposing some of these extra clues to the blog to get some people out here to help find the blaze. But you better be brave, bold, and not at all meek. I threw out a bone yesterday, down is Up. And another clue for the reason why I feel the chest has not been found. Forrest gave a clue that sent everyone elsewhere. You should be able to figure that out. We are going in there this morning with our guesses of what the blaze may be. Hope we are correct.

          • Trailblazer,
            My thoughts is only to the point that it doesn’t seem to be so hard to find or know the blaze this far into the clues.
            But I’m curious why you keep saying; But you better be brave, bold, and not at all meek?
            That sounds like a warning more than what clues refer to as places on a map… I guess i’m wondering why we need to be brave; having no fear, line of thinking, because the area/place needs us to be? The meekish not allowed…
            Are Little Sally and Bobby going to have nightmares after their adventure in the wiles of nature with mom and pop?

          • Believe me I have thought over and over about this area being safe. I can only say that Forrest views this place as not dangerous by the definition of the word. But we have to remember that Forrest is one tough dude, and in his eyes it’s a walk in the park. When I was packed in hunting with my kids for 12 days my biggest fear was them cutting themselves with there pocket knives 6 miles in. So it made a safe place dangerous.

          • Seeker. I’ve come to the conclusion that the blaze has to be solved ahead of time; that it will not be recognized in the field unless you already know what you are looking for.

      • Blex, sorry for the late reply. I missed your comment.

        One of my favorite sayings is “The greatest obstacle to discovering the truth is being convinced you already know it”
        . So my approach to the poem has changed many times over the years. I try to look at what we know objectively.

        I do believe two things. First; the chest is real and hidden out there for us to find. Second; Fenn is telling us the truth when speaking about the chest. The day I feel either of those is false is the day I quit looking for the chest.

        It’s not necessarily how I want it to be; but considering everything Fenn has told us it’s the only objective conclusion I can arrive at. The first two clues can be solved from home, the remaining clues must be solved on location. Once we are there and see what Fenn sees we can move with confidence.

        The biggest problem I have is if imagination is required to solve the poem. When I look at a rock outcropping I see a rock, not an eagle, or owl, or home of Brown. Kinda like looking at clouds, I could probably give you fairly accurate short range weather forecast (which is not a bad talent to have in the Rockies) but I don’t see castles, or horses, or anything else, just clouds.

        • Goofy, I find your comments interesting from where I stand. One of my favorite quotes is ” If man can control the weather then man can control the world” ~ Cloudfoot.

          I get this gut feeling for some reason, it will all come out in the wash because you quote like someone I know. Some old friend of mine.

          An Indian Scout and A Saint

        • Hi, Goofy. I share many of your opinions that you described above. I believe that the chest is still out there and that Forrest hasn’t been giving out any untruths.

          I think the main point that we disagree on is how far one can read into the poem before doing BOTG. Assuming that the first clue in the poem is WWWH, and the second clue is “Take it in the canyon down”, then the third clue might be “NFBTFTW”. To me “NFBTFTW” describes a significant distance between the first two clues and the remaining clues, so if one were to show up for a BOTG search at WWWH and the canyon to start looking around, there is the danger that they may be too far away from the hidey spot to have any chance of getting further into the poem from that area. Let me be clear though, that this is all very much just my opinion, and I don’t see any evidence that would dismiss your idea of needing to start BOTG early on in the poem and solving the rest on site. Most of my BOTG searches have been similar to how Dal described his recent search at Grayling Creek: I get to the area that I found from home and then start looking around for anything that could be the blaze.

          Regarding imagination…. There is a wide variety of imaginative solves posted here. I think some imagination is necessary, but it needs to be combined with a good amount of analytical logic as well. There’s the idea of seeing images hidden in the landscape or on aerial images in GE, but I think a lot of that falls in line with how you compared to just seeing things in the clouds. (I sometimes wonder if Chasers who lean too heavily in that direction would spend their time better looking for images of Mother Teresa on burnt pieces of toast and sell them on eBay.) And I think the ability to forecast approaching weather in the Rockies from the clouds is far more valuable than seeing pictures in them.

          But another aspect of using imagination that I think is more useful (and easier to do than seeing images in the landscape), is trying to put yourself in Forrest’s shoes. How did Forrest originally find his special hiding spot? Was it a place that he went on a flyfishing trip with his Father? Was it a place that he found by himself exploring as a kid in the spirit of Lewis & Clark? Was it a place that he found later in life in pursuit of Pre-Columbian artifacts? I have found myself thinking quite a bit on my BOTG searches along the lines of: Can I think of a plausible story of how Forrest may have discovered this area? If I can, that’s a great confidence-booster, but at the same time I acknowledge that I am just using my imagination to invent an aspect of Forrest’s life that may very well have never existed.

          Sorry for the long response, but thanks for sharing your thoughts, Goofy. I think that a good base of experience in hiking in the Rockies is extremely valuable in the Chase, and it sounds like you have plenty of that.

          • Blex. My hunch is that Forrest first spotted his special place from the air on one of his private plane flights, just as he spotted the clearing from the air in Vietnam.

          • Blex,
            Just chit chatting…
            If there is a large distance between the first two clues and the 4th clue… why do we need the first clue? Whats the point in starting searchers at the first couple clues from that location.. “if the danger is,” they maybe too far away from the hide?

            If I was to think of that scenario… the reason we would need to be at the first clue is to actually see the next clue [ being the 4th clue]… why you may ask?… Because if there is a large distance between the first clues and what ever physical location of the ‘viewed’ 4th clue… we might have to look back at the area of NFBTFTW, from that 4th clue.

            Meaning the next clue in the sequence can only be viewed from the 4th clue and not the first clue… yet, still lands between the clues[1and 4.
            Meaning NF to be in-between, BTFTW, {where the 4th clue is} and to look back towards the first clue that gives us clue 5… and not an alternate mode of transportation needed because of an unknown guessing distances.
            But a distance viewed from clue 1 to clue 4, and from 4 to 5.
            This makes the idea of, needing to be on site at clue 1 and makes NFBTFTW not a distance, but a must view {and take it in} from two angles or viewing point… 1 and 4. to the next clue [ assuming no place for the meek -” from there”- to be in- between clues 1 and 4.

            Clue 5 only viewed from clue 4, which is only viewed by clue 1, with a canyon in between. And all the clues ‘much closer’ than a 10 miles guess.

            It’s thoughts like these that I don’t understand when searchers get so hung up on a; second book’s distance to be in miles, or force the need of a vehicle to travel clues, or say we don’t need to be at the first clue.
            I mean… if there’s no human trail in very close proximity… did fenn need to follow the same route he tells us? Is he blazing the right/only trial to follow, for us?

            Anyways.. just chit chatting.

          • I’ve wondered the same things as you Blex………..How far is too far to walk, but yet many searchers have solved the first two clues and went past the chest, but we are supposed to be able to move with confidence once we figure out the poem.

            The only scenario I can objectively come up with that allows all of his statements to be true is when we are at WWWH, and see what Fenn sees, we can figure out the poem and move with confidence.

            I don’t believe Fenn has been telling us much about where to find it, but he is telling us how to find it. And when we arrive at WWWH we are not looking for Fenn’s special place, we are exploring it. The poem is a tour of his special place.

            Just my opinion.

          • Goofy – every time i consider being annoyingly subjective to your (too rare) comments, i soon find myself at a lack of wise argument, tbh (darn it all! 🙁 )

            not only have i succumbed to your faith in #1&2 ideologies (upper-above) but i’ll almost be brave enough (momentarily) to suggest a “third” plum to the cherry-pie

            what-if “why didn’t i think of that” isn’t actually an over-statement at all, but rather an (all too rare) honest prediction?

            btw, there’s Klingons on the starboard bow fyi!! ..not that i’m mentioning names or nuthin but.. (coughTTcough)

            (sheesh!!.. must be a full-moon or something i reckon!? 🙂 )

          • ..i’ll also add a Fourth idea (2nd try) ..that a humble guy with 12 children is assured of a level-playing field too, imho

            (don’t worry Goofy – when i look down from altitude, all i see is castles and horses too, tbh)

            ( ..i mean, what “clouds”?! 🙂 )

          • Seeker, the way I have attempted to rationalize in my mind the possible great distance between WWWH and the rest of the clues (as implied by NFBTFTW) is this: WWWH is a starting benchmark to anchor where the search area is within the vastness of the Rocky Mountains. It’s a unique landmark that is relatively close to the hiding spot of the treasure. The majority of the poem are simply directions as to how to get from this WWWH benchmark to the treasure chest.

            As an example, if I were to describe the location of “Best Bagel & Coffee” in the thick of New York City, I may use the Empire State Building as a starting point of reference, since it is unique and easily identifiable (not to say that WWWH is easily identifiable mind you; its identity is intentionally well hidden – a needle in a stack of needles, if you will). I could say that from the Empire State Building, head west on 34th Street, turn right onto 6th Avenue, turn left onto 35th Street, go past 7th Avenue, and you’ll see it on your right; if you hit 8th Avenue then you’ve gone too far.

            IMO, the NFBTFTW line implies that you are not actually travelling the path between WWWH and HOB; rather you are tracing that route on a map with your finger with the objective of discovering the HOB. HOB, or below HOB more specifically, is where one actually drives to and parks their car.

            This is of course just my opinion, and I know those who disagree will point to the answer that Forrest gave where he essentially said that he followed all of the clues to get to his hidey spot. I personally think that there is enough wiggle-room in this answer from Forrest where the map-tracing between WWWH and HOB is possible without him needing to physically travel that route. But I could be completely wrong, as evidenced by my failed BOTG trips this season!

          • Goofy, I like your interpretation of the poem in the sense of Forrest giving us a guided tour of his special place. That’s a truly beautiful idea that I would not be disappointed to discover if it were to be true.

          • Blex,
            I got it… My thoughts used NFBTFTW as to explain how the plain English can force one idea to need a vehicle for travel instead of viewing with hiking only.
            The problem is with your scenario is;
            Bending the “follow the clues” as only ‘some’ of the clues [ ok, I can see that, but not diggin it ] The other problem is [ as Goofy pointed out ] searchers with the first two clues walked by everything else. [ stated in many comments ]

            Logically what scenario is more plausible… A first clue that doesn’t need to be at, driving out one clue to another, or actually start at a later clue [physically]
            Or the interpretation of NFBTFTW… might indicated at least clues 1 and 4 are view points to find out how to locate yet another clue… with easy hiking involved. The location of clue [ lets say 5 ] is not far from clue one but not see from anywhere else but from clue 4 looking back at clue 1.

            The “too far to walk” is not an impossible track, [ for an 80 year old to travel ] but a indicator combined with “not far” as where to look for clue 5. Basically saying you have to walk too far to get to that clue, because of a vantage point of clue 4.

            Just because we can decipher a clue reference [ whether we think it looks like a cloud or more like a bear ] doesn’t mean we can find it on a map…
            The key word to fenn’s comment was “try” and marry the clues to a place on map.
            [ exact wording; “…to look for the clues in my poem and try to marry them to a place on a map.” ]
            We also have the thought that fenn didn’t say place[s] on a map… we also have the word married, which could imply coupled, joining… rather than what most reading and repeating on the blogs as each clue to it’s very own place.

            Now, if fenn said something similar like follow ‘some’ or ‘most’ of the clues… I’d skip the car and bring a ‘tour’ bus on a search.

            The only point I’m attempting to make is, are we reading the comment correctly, not unlike the poem imo, or forcing ‘our hopeful solve’ to work in our favor[ite] location. because of now needed transportation or skipping over, physically, being at a clue point?

            LOL… trust me when I say I have thought about this a lot… But I have a hard time thinking that… what had earlier searchers [prior to 2013] getting confused was nothing more than ‘ a car ‘

    • I’m sure FF is not oblivious to the history of secret signs thruout history, hobos marks on boxcars, city gang graffitil, early Christians secret meeting places, etc. Maybe that explains “look quickly down” … see the Fenn sign that this is the correct blaze for the hunt. Now tarry scant with marvel gaze, you’re in the small destination spot and there is still lots of work to do. I’m buying that.

    • “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f
      OS2,
      I posted my resent thoughts on this, as some thoughts do change from time to time…
      This warning from the book doesn’t really say the path would be “certain” [ using only this quote, nothing else known of ].

      It’s saying the “certainty of the location.” to have a direct path
      So what is the location?

      Does this mean a “deciphering” of the clues from home that will have the desired path known prior? [ the entire poem’s location ]

      Does it say, we need the first clue nailed down to be certain of the direct path needed from that location?

      Is it talking about the location of the chest? because the location is hidden…
      Or
      Could it be the first clue is wwh, but we need to know “where” to begin it… Did fenn tell us the location in the poem?
      “No certainty of the location” not so much the “path”.. the confidence part might come after we know the “location”
      Hence; is the question in the poem placed to tell us the answer to the “location”?

      Q~Mr. Fenn, Should the chest, for example, be found today, would you be able to tell searchers that the chest has been found in the same day? ~Johnny Q

      A~Well Mr. Q, you present a question that’s hard to answer. There is so much talk on the blogs that whoever finds the treasure may be driven underground and not say anything to anyone.
      If I am convinced it has been found then I will announce it immediately to Dal and three major media outlets. It seems logical, that if someone solves the clues, they will retrieve the treasure immediately. Until they do, no announcement can have teeth. ***With snow coming on the situation, this changes of course; in which case, if I were the searcher, I’d stay very quiet until spring.f***

      This is my Achilles Heel to the idea… we must be on location at the first clue to continue, and no other way. [which seem very logical at this point]

      “IF someone solves the clues” ~ But if fenn were a searcher, he’d stay quiet till spring… For what? to make an announcement… to know you solved the clues, but don’t worry about it till spring to go and retrieve it. Or even with the solve of the clues [ prior ] we can’t find the chest until spring [ summer ] when fenn stated he hid the chest… making more sense that fenn kinda had to follow the clues IF time of year is needed to be known.

      As far as Directly to it… fenn did say something like that, right?

      • Seeker, here is my take on your questions:

        1. Location refers to the blaze, and by association to the treasure, the treasure being in the immediate vicinity of the blaze.

        2. The poem clues through and including the blaze can be solved from home. BOTG only needed to find and retrieve the treasure from the immediate vicinity of the blaze.

        3. Do not send a complete solve to Forrest until you have the chest in hand because he will announce to the media that the poem has been solved at that time, and this could prove problematic for the one that solved the poem.

        • Tom B,

          Problematic after finding the TC should not be. After all F spent money on a attorney to see if there would be legal problems for the finder. His statements in the poem in stanza #1 & #5 insures that he is the owner and the reason why.

          I don’t believe he put the TC on park land as this would cause other legal issues. However, I believe he put it on public land as using it recreationaly for the treasure hunt without paying admission for land use and the land really does not belong to anyone, it is managed by BLM only to preserve the land for public use and not allowing commercial use.

          I just wanted put in my 2 cents about legal. Not intending to interrupt your and Seekers debate.

          All IMO
          CharlieM

  8. On the wrench statements earlier, could the blaze be a crescent shape.
    (Crescent wrench). We’re in the Rockies as well. Good luck this weekend to all
    searchers.

    • Across the desert into the mountain, down the river to the canyon of the crescent moon. Might not be exactly stated but close.
      IMO, the chase mirrors Indiana Jones and the last crusade, in a lot of aspects.

      • It makes me think of the line: “This Grail Tablet speaks of deserts and mountains and canyons. Pretty vague. Where do you start looking?”

          • And this Fenn Last Crusade reference: “All I know are the facts, if you want the truth go next door to the psychology department.f.”

          • The whole quote by IJ: “Archeology is the search for fact, not truth. If it’s truth you’re interested in, Dr. Tyree’s Philosophy class is right down the hall. So forget any ideas you’ve got about lost cities, exotic travel, and digging up the world. We do not follow maps to buried treasure, and “X” never, ever marks the spot.”
            Everyone knows there’s no X’s in the poem, and some of of us have been looking for an X shaped clue or marker.
            Could Mr Fenn be suggesting that an “X” does not “mark the spot”?

            -Randawg.

    • @1trailblazer re 20 miles, round trip to his favorite bathing spot would be 20 I think, if that helps you. IMO. But why do you ask one trail blazer? lol

  9. Without out giving to much away, our solve to HOB and to the spot we think Forrest parked his car is exactly 20.0 miles. Was thinking he said about to walking to far but guess it was bathing hole. He rode his bike so maybe 20 miles is to far to walk, and we are there. Blaze is the hard part.

    • @1trailblazer re 20 miles, I think about ‘put in’ as the parking place for the sedan and the location is to TFTW from WWH but after that it’s not far just no place for the meek…..IMO Blaze to me will be a small object that stands out and is unique to F. My meek is just a simple obstacle that deters hikers from venturing up our creek….IMO. I’m sticking with German Browns for HOB, but below (down stream) their home not at their home!

  10. I agree the “put in” is where he parked his car. Thanks for your insight on 20 miles.

  11. Thanks for the info. New to the chase, ordered TTOTC and Once Upon a while. Only They were waiting for more books to be signed so won’t get them till next week at least.

  12. Sheriif Billy has an idea……

    Why don’t we ask Mr. f to put a monument were WWH and that way we can know for sure went we find it. At that point we then could start at zero and begin the Quest.

    Just thinkin…..

    Best regards to all

      • I agree…….

        On another note…you know I found a curious factoid about “the boys” when the Deputy and I booked then into our Jail.. Each weighs the EXACT same weight…..10 stones. They seemed surprised I didn’t know all Leprechauns apparently weigh ” 10 stones”.

        Curious fact, don’t you think?
        IMO

        Best Regards

        1 f Billy

      • Mr. Vox–
        Just how far can you go with your solve..
        Being a professional problem solver maybe Sherif Billy can help you get over a hump… (IMO)

        Just offerin….

        Best regards

          • No, Sherif Billy (well no more than we all are). In fact, I was just lying sleeplessly in my British bed, thinking that perhaps Sherif Billy knows more about leprechauns than many an Irishman. So maybe you could ask one of the boys to grant me a wish… pumpkin pie before Thanksgiving. That way I get to ride the gilded coach (as long as it’s Delta and before midnight), and avoid snow pie later on.

            By the way, those are some pretty chunky leprechauns you have!

          • vox – unless ya got Bob Marley on speed-dial, i’d def plead the Fifth here if i was you 🙂

          • Dear Mr. Vox and Mr. Curious-

            Sherif Billy would like to share his favorite poem. He thinks it might have some significance to the search……

            The Things That Haven’t Been Done Before
            ByEdgar Guest

            The things that haven’t been done before,
            Those are the things to try;
            Columbus dreamed of an unknown shore
            At the rim of the far-flung sky,
            And his heart was bold and his faith was strong
            As he ventured in dangers new,
            And he paid no heed to the jeering throng
            Or the fears of the doubting crew.

            The many will follow the beaten track
            With guideposts on the way.
            They live and have lived for ages back
            With a chart for every day.
            Someone has told them it’s safe to go
            On the road he has traveled o’er,
            And all that they ever strive to know
            Are the things that were known before.

            A few strike out without map or chart,
            Where never a man has been,
            From the beaten path they draw apart
            To see what no man has seen.
            There are deeds they hunger alone to do;
            Though battered and bruised and sore,
            They blaze the path for the many, who
            Do nothing not done before.

            Best regards;

            1f Billuy

          • (test.. testing123.. phew!)

            “The things that haven’t been done before
            Are the tasks worth while today;
            Are you one of the flock that follows, or
            Are you one that shall lead the way?
            Are you one of the timid souls that quail
            At the jeers of a doubting crew,
            Or dare you, whether you win or fail,
            Strike out for a goal that’s new?”

            (..jus stayin’ on subject, as-per-usual)

  13. Just a thought… Use the stickman figures of Forrest the football player, running man, and the scrapbook #100, apply it to the poem line “And take it in the canyon down”, translate to “And ta k it n the canyon down”. Forrest’s friend Edard created a canyon for him to make a touch down. He had to run, too far to walk. Put in the end zone. He references his team name as the Kittens (Wildcats) I know it’s a s t r e t c h.

  14. For those of you who have been wondering what’s up with JDA. He emailed me today from a friends computer, he said he has lost his internet service for the past 10 days and don’t expect to have it back until Tuesday or so.. then he’ll check in with us.
    That’s good news…. JDA, asked me to let everyone know… so don’t worry, all is well, just internet service problems…..
    Have a great day everyone….. until next time…. see ya my friends

  15. Maybe he has Sheriff Billly… I haven’t played the codes & numbers game yet, but there are 6 stanzas, three seem clue actionable, the other three do not. Two sets of three. Hmmmm, Latitude and longitude coordinates immediately come to mind.

    Did ff say something about the importance nouns somewhere?

    Its going to be a long winter.

    • You seem to be hung up on latitudes, longitudes and boarders. Are you paying attention to what really is on the ground? You can’t see boarders, longitude and latitudes on the ground at all. Those lines are only on maps.

      Knowing about geology in the general common sense helps, use of maps helps gets one to point A & B. IMO there is nothing in the poem or the book that suggest lines that relate to maps in numbers. People in general don’t care about lines on a map.

      I can’t imagine F using lines because there a lot of people that do not understand those lines and most likely don’t understand topography maps which have a lot of lines. Most people can’t use a compass in conjunction with a map. Only avid hikers and backwoods outdoors men need those lines and compass readings to traverse the geography.

      GPS is used to pin point a location on the ground electronically. GPS for “every day” use to get from point A to B without having knowledge of any lines. GPS uses don’t determine the difficulty on the ground to get to point A & B.

      So my argument is; it is not necessary to use Longitude, Latitude and Boundaries to find the TC. The use of geography is simple, as an example: most people know where the Grand Canyon, YNP, Niagara Falls, Mount Rushmore are generally to get there. This is what F was talking about a little knowledge of geography, IMO

      All IMO
      CharlieM

      • If you’re talking to me Charlie, yep, I’ve already mentioned my bias for lines and edges and borders…. Also for rules and facts and numbers….. all that ‘precisely’ kind of stuff. But if you’re a rule-of-thumb kind of guy, I hope you find a pie to stick it into and pull out a plum.

        • OS2,

          I’m not the type to put in a thumb to find a plum and using the rule of thumb. It’s simply knowledge that I use to create a solve from the book, it’s subtle hints and the poem. There is no rule of thumb in what has been put before us by FF.

          • CharlieM,
            I must have confused you with that guy waiting for the light to change. Or maybe Jack Horner. Good luck in the shifting sands of subtleties. I’m just a gritty clueless inchworm in dark.

      • CharlieM: are you sure?

        “The treasure is out there waiting for the person who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.” — February 9, 2017

      • we are all ENVIRONMENTALISTS TO SOME DEGREE. If you had an alpha numeric system, couldn’t this be considered a degree hint.
        environmentalists + to (or 2)?
        If you know the chest is in Yellowstone, with your thinking, that should be all we need? I guess we all know where the Rockies are, I guess that’s all the Geography we need? Ridiculous. Coordinates are really the only thing that will stand the test of time. Also, f flat out said, If you had the coordinates, you could go right to it. (paraphrasing). Are you searching underwater in Idaho? Just saying….

        • “Coordinates are really the only thing that will stand the test of time.”

          Couldn’t agree more, charlie. I don’t think anyone will find the spot without them.

        • Looking at the poem with the idea of coordinates as the only way, seems to force only a single thought for “precisely”

          How much impact would normal movement of a location anywhere in the RM’s change coordinates -?- in a 1000 years?
          But if there is a line of sight idea involved [there have been a few examples mentioned over the years] How much of an impact would one or more clues references have in those situations? More than likely changing that line of sight just enough to make the solve more difficult as time and land moves on.

          But here’s a WhatIF… should coordinates be involved for the location of the chest, where’s the idea… “what took me so long?” I mean, many have searched this poem inside and out for just that [ coordinates ] yet nothing at all has produce a 10″ sq hide.
          Yet, if there are coordinates, wouldn’t it be more likely it eliminates the many possibility of the first clue.
          That would give me a thought of, what took me so long, line of thinking, and not just hand over the gold to someone. Still leaving the poem’s clues references needing to be deciphered exactly.

          Now comes the problem I would have if coordinates are involved… it would need to be a smack in the head, DuH, moment, and not so much a type of E=mc2 calculating or some super computer program to crunch the thousands of numbers possibilities.

          Rambling and Rumbling…

          • Coordinates don’t move / change – okay. It’s my understanding land and water move / change all the time. Depending on the degree of movement / change (a) is Indulgence also moving / changing its location and (b) how much relative to coordinates? Not far, but too far to…? Too much for me to think about on a beautiful, lazy, Sunday when I should be outside doing something.

          • You make some good points, Seeker, but here are some what-ifs for you.

            What if the coordinates are incomplete, and it’s necessary to have solved other elements first?

            What if the coordinates, once completed for the first clue, help you to establish the coordinates for the second clue, and so on?

            What if the cumulative process of establishing coordinates for the remaining clues does not lead you to the treasure location, but is a necessary precursor for the next step?

            What if the discoveries along the way help you to establish the trajectory that is being described in the poem?

            What if you need to wash rinse and repeat a number of times before the complete drawing is rendered?

            What if the “aha!” or “duh” moment is less to do with something obvious and more to do with realizing how things fit together, unexpectedly, but staring you in the face, nonetheless?

            What if there is a twist in the tail (or two, or three)?

            These are pointers to how my own particular discoveries have occurred, right or wrong. Although all the information is in the poem, I firmly believe that you need boots on the ground a number of times to be able to understand how to progress. It’s a long job, and searchers are going to need to gear up for some serious learning, analyzing and adjusting, IMO.

          • Where are the coordinates? I do not find one hint pointing to coordinates. like I said earlier they are of no use to me. They would be important AFT to show where the treasure is found.

            Just because F made the statement, “The treasure is out there waiting for the person who can make all the lines cross in the right spot.”does not mean you have to use that statement to conclude or confirm that the lines are needed. I still believe F’s statement was a metaphor and yes you can make the lines cross ATF.

            Please don’t think I take what F says to be dismissed.

          • CharlieM,
            I don’t take that single comment as other do. But more to the thought all the clues “connect” in some way. To get/understand that connection all the clues need deciphering, not just a couple…
            If he said; need to get your ducks in a row… others might think the poem is a straight line. The same for the X on a map idea… and others jump on GE looking for and X…lol… and some found a few.
            Does X mean, mark the spot? A place to start? all the clues form an X? Is X a symbolic cross [t] to look for? Or nothing more than the clues are within an X area… with the thought that a state might be out of play as to a “clue references”?

            I mean, if new and old would refer to a clue reference as NM, it would have to be clue one. Or treasures for MT.
            For me this is like the flashlight comment… a smart thought, but surely not a clue.
            Or the comments; ‘I’m not ready to say the chest is not in water,’ and later stated “not under water” Yet still, some think it must be because water[s] is mentioned… also at one time fenn said he knows the chest is wet… even though he also said Probably wet another time, and physic tells him its wet.

            Hanging on to a one and only single comment will bury a good thought in a single second. imo

          • CM – the easiest way to produce a co-ord is by first obtaining a bearing and distance from a known set-point, for e.g:

            1) the most common ref that Forrest has mentioned to a set-point is 8.25miles N of SF

            2) let’s just imagine that warm = comfortable for a par-sec – “The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language identifies room temperature as around 20 to 22 °C (68 to 72 °F)” – wiki-world

            3) and include a possible distance (too far to walk?) of 10mile/90miles or any other distance that Forrest is remaining tight-lipped about whether he can walk or not

            but that’s just a quick example though, as i haven’t taken my meds today yet 🙂

            (btw ..how’s that plum tasting?)

          • Hello curious hobbit. I concur. In the book, one could take possible coordinates, such as Frosty being a ruler; ruler being 12″. Other numbers appear in other stories.

          • (Second try.) I concur, curious hobbit. Possible coordinates may be taken from stories in the book, such as Frosty being a ruler; ruler being 12″. Other numbers in different stories.

          • see CM? – i already got several searchers that agree, so…

            (thanks pdenver -ya $50 bribe is sent 🙂 )

            (thanks pdenver – ya $20 bribe is sent 🙂 )

        • The first thing is to have a number system. If you don’t see numbers, you definitely cannot believe there are coordinates. Plus, he is not going to put coordinates in any simple form. That would be too easy. It’s the way the numbers are used, the placement, and the wording. Lines 5 and 6, if I get numbers from there, say 4 and 6, to begin with 46 tells me latitude. Like I said above, if environmentalists equals 44 to me, it’s back-up info for the latitude. It’s just the way that info is found that yields to coordinates. And of course, the only thing that will stand the test of time. It’s not in solving clues, you cannot solve WWWH with just line 5, but yet we know that is the first clue. It’s many different aspects of the poem that lead to WWWH. It’s solving the poem that if followed precisely will lead to the chest. The clues fall into place.
          Not all the variables need to make up the coordinates also. If you have the seconds of the longitude, and they fall within your path, it still can work. If you know a latitude and when you get to that latitude you find something, longitude doesn’t matter. It’s in the way you solve the poem, and the way the path presents itself. the ” what took me so long” thought is not in the coordinates but in the solving of the poem. For me, I’ve found two places of coordinates. Up to the 8th clue, and latitude of the blaze. Adding the 9th clue and the key allows for the spot, which I have coordinates for, but those coordinates were never found in the literature. The question should be first if you believe there are letter values? If you don’t see the possibility of numbers, then how can you see coordinates? f has commented on , doing the math, and coordinates. Like vox said, “What if the coordinates are incomplete, and it’s necessary to have solved other elements first? If anything, it seems obvious that multiple answers are needed to find a certain problem. No way you solve for WWWH with line 5, no way you solve for coordinates with just having numbers. It takes the whole solve to see the finish line.

          • Hey pdenver! Gosh gee golly you certainly seem like a great person. We should get together sometime. I assume you live in denver. I do too. I truly do think we have so very much in common. And you do seem like an exquisite example of a wonderful person. Keep up the great work.

      • Well Well. This thread is very interesting. When I first discovered my interpretation of the clues. I started drawing lines from one to the other. I just couldn’t make 2 of the lines work for me. I tried all kinds of scaling, colored crayons, rulers and protractors. Nothing but 10 lines going nowhere.

        I kept asking myself, ” What am I looking at?” Where is the “X” or the map.

        Then it became apparent to me. I was in the wrong spot.

        * How do you like this one ff. gt

        An Indian Scout and A Saint

        • Dear Mr. Gey—

          I feel your pain…….

          Does this help?

          36 degrees 32.657’N, 105 degree 42.560’W

          I believe it to be a secret Paddywacker site.

          Best regards

          1 f Billy

        • Yes sir–I knew that. I am not quite sure how I offended you…my apologies

          At an altitude of about 7300 or about 1000′ above the ground…what did you see?

          Man….This is tough….like pulling teeth.

          Just saying

          • Sherif Billy – how many links east of your coords is the nearest Bigfoot sighting? If not sure, google BFRO; the GEOGRAPHICAL Database of Bigfoot Sightings. Don’t forget to marry your clues to a map; the right map is crucial. And it’s not a Rand McNally atlas, IMO.

  16. Why “Ouch!” Billy? Early in this Chase there were a lot of numerologists and crypters & coders, I think they mainly tried to zone in for numbers that would I.D. the TC’s hidey place…. but you suggested a new Zero, a re-start at WWWH. I think that’s much more like what an architect would have designed … if he’d done a done a numbers game at all. Find the address… Start at the doorway & maybe a sign to park at.

        • What? Sherif Billy doesn’t know anything about that. Where was it? I’ll send the Deputy right over to check it out. We’ll catch those Turkeys….

          • Watch out, that FIRST GRADE is full of bad hombres,. I’m sure you can handle it, their all little fellas.

          • Sheriff Billy,

            Is Sheriff Billy a real sheriff or imaginary sheriff? I get the deputies part.

  17. Sherif Billy lives in Kansas but grew up in Denver. He wanted to be a Vet but didn’t get into Vet school…..so he decided the next best thing was people doctoring. He lives not far off the Santa Fe trail and most everyday drives from his home, past his ranch on the Oregon trail to work in Topeka. He once got into trouble with the law after his buffalo kept breaking out……He was charged with “allowing domestic animals (other than dogs and cats) to roam at large” Sherif Billy was found not guilty (He tried the insanity plea but the judge wouldn’t accept it) because he as able to prove Buffalo are wild animals and have never been domesticated. (The D.A. charged him with the wrong crime) Anyhow..Because Billy was charged and tried (1st case)…Kansas now has state law that recognizes Buffalo are wild animals….and the state song of Kansas remains intact.

    Least you might think Deputy Katie is normal.. remember a nut doesn’t fall far from the tree. She pulls teeth for a living… If you ever meet her on the trail…ask her if she has ever appeared before a judge wearing ankle shackles……Sherif Billy is a Lawman only in his mind, but he executed two prisoners today at work today (mice)

    Where’s that deputy of mine?

    Best regards

    Billy

      • CharlieM, spelling is important to success in solving the poem. Also in names of people.

        . . . In my opinion.

    • Sherif Billy
      Pleased to get to know a little bout ya know best one can on a blog. Several years ago, I was on my way back from Grand Canyon North Rim and stopped in the Kaibab Plateau visitor center at Jacob Lake, AZ. As I walked back to my Jeep, I noticed a young man and woman leaning against a pick-up with Kansas plates. The man had a badge pinned to his jacket – not sure what kind. On my approach I looked and smiled at em’ and said “Hi”. The next thing ya know, out of my mouth I ask “How’s Dorothy doing these days?” The young lady gave a half-hearted laugh as the young man shot back “We don’t know, man – she went L.A. a long time ago!” I laughed a bit and thought either he must get ribbed a lot about “Dorothy” and his comeback was a ready-made, repeated one or he’s pretty good at thinkin’ on his feet. Either way, ever since when I meet someone from Kansas, I’m much more hesitant to ask how Dorothy is doing these days. Sherif Billy, any chance that couple was you and your Katie?

      • Dear Mr. Kid-

        No, I’m sorry that was not me and the Deputy. (but it sounds like the way we might have responded) You see we get that a lot. People also ask about tornadoes. We especially get those questions/comments when traveling abroad.

        No harm done. I am proud the Great State of Kansas has played in the history of our nation. You see, like Mr. f, I enjoy history.

        Nuff of that…..Something odd struck me the other day I want to tell you about…. The boys were cooking in the kitchen,,,,They asked me if I would go get them some apple of pine, an ingredient of what they were making.

        They talk funny, so naturally I thought they meant pineapple and went to the store and bought them one. …..You know …strange as it may seem….they had never seen a pineapple before and asked what it was.

        They then proceeded to examine it very carefully and poke at it. They didn’t see, from it’s outwardly appearance how it could be editable. I proceeded to cut it open and give them a taste. Boy you should of seen their reaction on their faces.

        They then decided to use the cut up pineapple as a substitute for the “apple of pine” which they requested. We then had their concoction for dessert that evening, and I’ll have to say, it was pretty good.

        Curious, don’t you think?

        Best regards,

        1f Billy

        • The boys just found out I have been blogging about them…..

          Boy are they mad…..They called me a bad name in Irish I think…a Winkelreid….boy are they mad.

          Billy

        • 1f Billy
          Curious indeed but I don’t think they talk funny at all. By “apple of pine” I think of pine cones and would have asked “just the nuts or whole cones?” Then again, maybe they meant something else. And I’m giving you a “Go Directly to Jail” card; should I ever again mention Dorothy to you or one of your deputies, please feel free to give it right back and lock me up! Who knows, maybe someday we will meet up. I have two vehicles and their plates read ‘ K UTAH 1” and “J UATH 1”.

          • Mr. Kid-

            I surmised just like you and thought they were referring to pine cones or maybe Pinon nuts….but no! They just shake their heads and repeat little “apple of pine”.

            I don’t get it.

            Best regards

        • apple pie……… yes.
          apple of my eye………. yes.
          doesn’t fall far from the tree…….. yes
          apple of pine……….donno.

  18. I was just looking at the picture on the Home Page go this website, the one with FF in front of the leather couch and bearskin on the wall. Doesn’t it look like he’s photoshopped therein? Does that bar have 9 nodes on it, overlaying three concentric circles?

    • I count 10… but why would you think this pic would help? or even be curious about.
      This is a personal blog site of a searcher, not the author’s

      • I read something by FF that very little was photoshopped in his books so if something IS photoshopped it would have been intentional (IMO). I keep coming back to circles in my bleary-eyed musings so this caught my attention. That’s all.

        • sean,
          Somewhere deep in the darkest reaches of the forbidden areas… there was an explanation from fenn about the pictures and illustrations, and who shot and artist them.
          I personally keep this comment in mind;
          Chicago radio WGN interview, March 2013: http://lummifilm.com/blog/WGN2013.mp3
          Minute 10:45, Q: Does the book give me any more information than I would get from the poem?
          A: “There are some subtle hints in the text of the book that will help you with the clues.  The poem will take you to the chest but the book by itself won’t.” f

          • Seeker,
            Yes, agreed. And I do feel we are missing something bigtime. It’s captivating

        • The question remains…Are these subtle hints in the text directive in nature to a specific location…or are they more indicative of methodology in regards to how the clues are hidden in the poem?

          • And Bingo was is name…oh
            Ken,
            Yep. It’s the way fenn stated that the book alone can’t get us to the treasure, and the poem has all the “information” to “find” the chest… deciphering the clues???
            In my mind, IF they ‘directive in nature’ then the book is a needed ‘part’ of the solve. So I lean toward Methodology…
            Yet, I am reminded of this Q&A;
            Q~ Does somebody *need to read your book to *find the treasure or do all the clues exist within the poem?

            A~ They don’t *need to read my book. But they need to read the poem. The book will help them, but they *can find the treasure if they can decipher the clues that are in the poem.
            { *~ used for emphasis only. }

            Does deciphering involve maps? That’s a given for research for me.
            Do we need other research material?
            Well the only thing that came with the poem is the book. How do we conduct our decipher method? ha! IDK… but I do know what fenn talks about, that seems to relate;
            “It’s not a matter of trying, it’s a matter of thinking. Sure, I mean people figured the first couple of clues and unfortunately walked passed the treasure chest.”

            Ok, so what else do we know -?-
            We know that as of the earliy part of the chase { 2010 – 2013 } clues were indicated, figured out, deciphered, solved… but tthose folks didn’t seem to know they did so… I wonder what method or Ideas or research was being don’t in the very beginning, long before many of the ATF.

            My guess is; common sense tells me to look at maps, and the book was the only avenue used to present the poem…. Think, Analyze seems common sense to me as well, right?
            However, we have been told to “Plan” and “Observe”… Is that nothing more than looking at maps and packing extra socks and a toothbrush?

            I have said it before… we’re missing something big time. And so did the first clues solvers. { important possibility no one has mentioned? } [ as of the date of that comment ].

            LOL, sorry for the rambling and rumbling… simple response to your post…. I agree… “the question remains”

          • Yes…this one is hard to comprehend.
            It seems a lot of folks have run right off to YS because of the stories in TTOTC. In this case…folks could have correctly hit it right on the head first shot…some knew, some didn’t…but went anyways.
            Then there are the thousands that do not search that area…they have possibly connected more subtle ideas from the book into a different idea of locale. Perplexing to say the least!
            For the record…I lean towards TTOTC containing subtleties that hint at the “how” to solve the clues vs. where they may physically be. My theories are constantly moving/shifting…which definitely makes it hard to put a dang spike in it!
            Maybe the new book will give me a good kick in the pants….haven’t taken the time to read it yet…just general inspection of. carry on…
            Oh yes…I agree. If “directive” it WOULD seem absolute that the book would be key…and not just an off hand accessory.

          • Seeker, I think you’re right. We are missing something big time. Remember F saying something about him being surprised that no one had analyzed one possibility? I wonder if anyone has hit that nail yet? Also, there is the word that is key…

            Mind boggling, isn’t it? It makes my head numb!

            TimM

    • Dear Mr. Tim—

      I’ll help you out…..Ask Mr. f what his name means….

      Just saying it might just be where a leprechaun would hid the pot of gold!

      Best regards;

      1 f Billy

      • Sherif,

        First off, I don’t need your help. I do just fine on my own. Second, whatever you think F’s name means doesn’t matter to me. It’s not pertinent to the chase so no need for me to know.

        Have a nice evening

        TimM

        • Dear Mr. Tim–
          I am sorry I stepped on your toes. I will be more careful in the future.

          My comment was not private and there are others who read this blog. My comment was not so much directed to you, but rather others who are reading the blog. You seemed to be wondering aloud….. so I thought I would throw you a bone. It makes no difference to me if you take it.

          Where I come from they have a saying….”you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink”

          Good day, Sir

  19. Question for anyone with an answer: where is the story about the guy Alex who drowned saving another? Was it here on Dal’s site, MW site? Can’t seem to locate it but a friend could use reading it about now.

    Thanks!

  20. I’ll post the final verse for you, Sherif Billy:

    The things that haven’t been done before
    Are the tasks worthwhile today;
    Are you one of the flock that follows, or
    Are you one that shall lead the way?
    Are you one of the timid souls that quail
    At the jeers of a doubting crew,
    Or dare you, whether you win or fail,
    Strike out for a goal that’s new?

    • Mr. Vox–

      Thank you…you are so right. I spaced out the final verse.

      That’s perfect.

      Best regards;

      Billy

  21. Dear Mr. Vox–

    My apologies if I caused you loss of sleep. You know…the correct solve is soooo…. incredibly difficult.. Seeing that you are so far away, puts you at a disadvantage……but not that much. If you have gotten to the end, without BOTG 30-40 times, you are much cleaver than Sherif Billy or Deputy Katie.

    The boys and I talked it over and we are planning one last trip to that special spot near to where I captured “the boys”. We decided that if we find it there,, we will cut you in for 1/3 if you can tell us within 100 meters of where we found it.

    We hate to have you waste your time and money, and eating snow pie doesn’t sound good. ….the boys said they would make and send you a pumpkin pie too if you give me your address.

    So you see…all is not lost……

    We wish you well;

    1f Billy and the boys

    • Well, Sherif, you’re very kind to be thinking of me – I don’t know what I did to deserve that.

      100 meters, huh? I don’t know if I can think metric at this time of night, but it sounds doable!

  22. Sherif Billy, I hope you’re not intending to throw yourself on those menacing pikes. The way is already clear.

        • Mr. Vox–

          It’s hard to tell…Mr.Rube is a farmer it seems. He raises turnips of all kinds. He has so many turnips,……it would be very difficult to tell how many he had. Whaat would he know?

          I don’t know what anyone could do with so many turnips. It is fortunate that Thanksgiving is nearly here. Maybe he can get rid of some of them then.

          The boys think….maybe he could experiment with them and make some turnip-pineapple-bacon borscht. They got all excited and added that to put some buffalo meat in the borsch for flavor.

          They seem to be hung up with Bacon and pineapple these days……I don’t like turnips!

          I wish you good health,

          Sherif Billy and deputy Katie

          • Mr. Vox–
            When the Deputy and I first started on the trail, the scent was cold and it was all in fun. That all changed when we stumbled upon the blaze while looking for petroglyphs’. My first reaction when I saw the blaze, was that Mr. f had buried his dog there, but the Deputy knew right away that it was “the blaze”.
            At that point although the trail was still cold, we knew we were on Mr. f”s heels. From there it only got more difficult, which eventually (after about 30 BOTG) led us to that special place Mr.f is so fond of. IMO

            This will be the last post for Sherif Billy and the boys. You see it wouldn’t be fair to my Deputy who owes $400,000 after going to deputy school to give everything away, and I have important Sheriffing to do….. IMO
            I leave you with one last thing if we should ever met on the trail–Best wishes and the luck of the Irish.
            https://youtu.be/H_p0Na9aNF8
            (Mr. Vox we’re still on..)

            Sherif Billy, Deputy Katie and “the boys”

            IMO that is quite the refuge

          • That’s mighty expensive deputy training! Deputy Katie must have learned every law in the state of Kansas, including the one that declares rabbits may not be shot from motorboats.

            Well done for stumbling upon the blaze! You should have the treasure in your hands imminently (or at least by the time the boys make it to 6 ft. [1.83 metres] ).

            Of course, with all that expensive sheriffing to do, and Deputy Katie’s ruinous debt, you’ll need all the spoils to pay your way, so it would be wrong of me to lay claim to any part of your new-found wealth.

            Enjoy the gold!

          • Mr Sherif sir – i’ve enjoyed your comments immensely. best of luck with your solve and thanks for the cool (earlier) poem

            “As you slide down the bannister of life,
            May the splinters never point the wrong way” – an Irish Blessing
            🙂

  23. Seeker, et al, ATF professionals…

    I hear a lot of talk about ‘good maps’. Is it now common knowlege by the ‘after the fact’ comments that a simple Rand McNally Road Atlas map found at the local Walgreens will not be good enough to find the treasure location? Or the starting point?

    Does the unemployed guy from Texas coming to search the Rocky Mountains will need to find a store that sells specialized topographic or whitewater maps along the way? Must he have at least a smartphone with google earth to get there, or will it be impossible?

    • Oz10…Those are good questions ! I think Fenn gave a good answer to a question in reference to maps. I believe that maps that are more detailed for an area would be better than just a plain old road map. But who knows for sure… Fenn’s comment about the guy from Texas(the Redneck guy) reminds me that he(redneck) of all people probably knows about maps better than most average folks, that for example…don’t regularly go out hunting or work on a sprawling ranch in the middle of no where. I know a bunch of good ole boys who work in the oil industry that use maps every day. Your comment seemed a bit spicey…so I’ll be cautious when I say that I personally don’t think “that guy” would even need a dumb phone to get from Texas to anywhere along the eastern slopes of The Rocky Mts.. I do like maps though!

      • Ken,
        I kinda think the same… sort of.
        I look at it as; the type of person that utilize what he ‘has’ to work with, to get the job done.

      • I didn’t mean to imply that we are talking about a dumb redneck. I only wonder how much research at home vs. on site. F tried to think of everything we know. No specialized knowledge needed but a comp. geography knowledge will help. The more detailed the map the better. Decipher the clues and marry to the map. Figure out the clues, decipher what they say and -go- right straight to the treasure chest.
        Based on some of those comments imo the location where to park your car must be known from the research at home. Regardless of how many clues are needed to use the detailed maps and the geography knowledge it is a way to find that parking spot. From the moment you put botg, is there a need for even more detailed maps to solve the remaining clues, or just see the land and understand it?

        • Oz…Yes. That is what I would like to believe.
          But then some of the ATF seem to put a damper on that theory. Like…you won’t know if you have the correct wwh until the treasure is retrieved. That one bites.
          I am one that believes that the searcher that retrieves the treasure, will do so by knowing where to go after parking their vehicle. My guess is that if the clues are solved…what else is there ? Why would Fenn say to marry the poem to a map?

          • Ken: I am one that believes that the searcher that retrieves the treasure, will do so by knowing where to go after parking their vehicle. My guess is that if the clues are solved…what else is there ?

            That is my belief as well. That statement of will not know they have wwh right until they retrieve the chest is really subjective. I see it as a warning to us not to get hooked on one wwh that is not producing results after multiple attempts.

          • All of the clues take me to a place where the chest SHOULD be, but alas, it has not been there.

            No reason to start at the same wwwh place, the result will be the same, so I start again, where I ended up, and go through the poem again.

            I know that this sounds stupid, but each time, I honestly feel that it has brought me closer to Indulgence.

            Will the next “lap” through the poem be my last – I can hope. I feel good about the outcome. 23 months, and 16 trips, lets hope that #17 is the lucky one.

            I am now working on blaze #6 – who would have “thunk” it? Not me! JDA

          • Jda, 16 trips to the same location, can you at least try going to the right instead of left the next time? 🙂 It’s your wwh a geography feature or place name?

          • OZ10;

            My wwwh is a geographical feature. One body of water converges with a second body of water. An obscure definition of “The wood” sent me to this exact spot in Wyoming. JDA

          • Jda, I think you explained that previously. You must be convinced that there is not another one like it. You think that the blaze has to be found in the field by trial and error?

          • OZ10;

            Yes I have explained it before, but we have some “nubies” on board who may not have read it.

            One and only? – Yup – Yup!

            Trial and error? The poem led me to each of my previous blazes, and I knew before putting BotG what the blaze would look like (well once I was taken by surprise) – Now, if I do not know what I am looking for, I stay at home and work the poem until I know within a pretty small area where the next blaze will be found. I am getting close – or at least I think that I am.

            Confusing enough? Formulate a plan, execute the plan. If plan “A” fails, go back to clue #1 and reevaluate. Try again after reevaluation – do NOT do the same thing over and over and expect a different result. ADJUST!!

            JDA

          • JDA, that sounds like a plan. Let me ask you this, without giving your place away, we can use the words in the poem. I just want to know how you approach the challenge:

            1. Do you park at WWH, home of Brown or at the water high?
            2. How do you know it is the wrong blaze? because of no chest?
            3. Does look quickly down, tarry scant and marvel gaze in your solve are just instructions and not other places to look after the blaze?
            4. When you try a new blaze, do you have to go back all the way to wwh and look for another canyon and so forth?

          • OZ10;

            You asked a couple of questions. I will try to answer them, without giving away the farm. You asked:

            1. Do you park at WWH, home of Brown or at the water high?

            I park at the “END” – “The end is ever drawing nigh – Just below “No paddle up your creek”.

            2. How do you know it is the wrong blaze? because of no chest?

            That is correct.

            3. Does look quickly down, tarry scant and marvel gaze in your solve are just instructions and not other places to look after the blaze?

            “Look quickly down is an instruction that does not always mean the exact same thing, and only as the final instruction, mean look near your feet. All other instances, it means something else.

            4. When you try a new blaze, do you have to go back all the way to wwh and look for another canyon and so forth?

            Yes, go back to clue #1 – Begin it…, but starting at where you last ended up. So, yes, there are multiples of wwwh, canyon, hoB, meek place, end, No paddle, heavy loads , water high and blazes. I already explained the “Look quickly down – marvel gaze and Tarry scant. (My physical tarry scant has not changed, but will at the final location.) JDA (Hope I answered your questions, and I think I still own the farm.)

          • Thanks for the answers JDA. I will say that the good thing about just having one wwh is that you can just do your search within a radius from there. How big of a radius will depend on your interpretations. What I don’t like about doing that is that most other clues will become maleable depending on what you find towards that new direction you will be pursuing.

            For example, maybe the first time your canyon down was an actual canyon running west and maybe you found a good blaze, say a rocky hill with a shape of an arrowhead pointing down. If no chest was found, you may now decide that the canyon down is a road heading south that eventually will take you to a new blaze with a different definition, maybe this time it is a small waterfall. See this is just a simple example but in my head I don’t think that is what ff intended but I could be wrong and stealing from you, what do I know nada.

        • Oz10,

          fenn said “I would advise new searchers to look for the clues in my poem and try to marry them to a place on a map.”

          As to your question on after arriving…?
          There could be an idea that ” marry them to ‘a place’ on a map is the starting point of all the clue and not just the first clue.
          The other idea [ in my abstract mind ] the clues marrying is another map… other than GE getting you to the location, line of thinking.
          To put in bluntly is there a map style object on site?
          “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f
          I get what you’re saying as to getting to the search location, then what do we need or do.

          This warning only tells of the location beforehand… You asked is there a need for more detailed maps or just see the land? WhatIF there’s a map on site?

          • **** Seek’r asked – “To put in bluntly is there a map style object on site?” ****

            That’s one of the lines WyMustIGo was pursuing a year or two ago. Something like an inscription on a monument or exhibit (I don’t recall the details) that would then provide additional directions, turning the Chase into a more traditional style treasure hunt rather than the scavenger hunt we all seem to be participating in currently.

            I wasn’t sold on the idea, but it was at least energizing in that it opened up additional ways to think about how so few lines could lead anyone to a unique small destination in such a huge location.

            Jake

          • JAK,
            Skip inscription Idea and monuments, ideas of long ago and think even longer ago.
            For this idea to be plausible the object would need to last as long as fenn’s thoughts of down the road.
            We can get all semantic about such an object like a pyramid, a structure… But that is not what i’m thinking about.

            While those conversations many moons ago might have kicked started a thought process… the thoughts then, don’t relate to my thought now.
            however, like you said; ‘…but it was at least energizing in that it opened up additional ways to think…’
            That’s the whole point of yip yapping with others on the blog. Not to disagree or agree with… its to get the energy of thought going and not become stale / stuck on any one line of thinking.

          • Oz10,
            Your thinking a map has to be paper or computer generated, of a carved on a plague or stone… if you can’t walk away from those types of maps ideas, ya might want to pick up a Disney one.

            It’s only a theory, but yes… there is a map. But at times, map details are hard to understand.

          • Your Disney map reference made me realize that there are several things on that map that match the clues in the poem. So, just for fun I wrote a solve using it. This really goes to show you that the clues are vague enough to make a solve out of almost anything. I thought this was pretty good though especially the Splash Mountain part:

            As I have gone alone in there – He went alone in Disneyland
            And with my treasures bold, – pretty bold to walk around Disneyland with treasures
            I can keep my secret where, – Keeping his secret about loving Disneyland
            And hint of riches new and old. – Disneyland has been around for a while yet has newer rides

            Begin it where warm waters halt – Its a small world (you ride a boat around that constantly halts to see the scenes. The water is warm because it’s in Southern California)
            And take it in the canyon down, – There is a canyon at Big Thunder Ranch in the direction you are headed but since that is too far to walk:
            Not far, but too far to walk. – take the train around to New Orleans Square (this is the closest place to let you off and also it is below home of brown which is:
            Put in below the home of Brown. – Pooh Corner is home of brown but you are putting in below it at the train station

            From there it’s no place for the meek, – Haunted Mansion
            The end is ever drawing nigh; – left toward the end of the chase
            There’ll be no paddle up your creek, – Splash mountain you ride up a creek on a track
            Just heavy loads and water high. – top of splash mountain

            If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, – from the top of splash mountain you see Tom Sawyer’s Island
            Look quickly down, your quest to cease, – You have no choice but to look quickly down when going down splash mountain
            But tarry scant with marvel gaze, – Gaze back at the island when you are done
            Just take the chest and go in peace.

            So why is it that I must go
            And leave my trove for all to seek?
            The answers I already know,
            I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.- Have you ever walked around Disneyland all day?

            So hear me all and listen good,
            Your effort will be worth the cold. – getting splashed by the cold water on Splash Mountain
            If you are brave and in the wood – You are riding a log on splash mountain and have to be brave to do so
            I give you title to the gold.

          • Aaron, LOL
            Not bad for a first try… I did the same years ago with Mars to make the same point.
            But, does the poem look vague only because we can’t think straight?
            Examples; NFBTFTW, to mean we need to figure a measurable unknown distance, when it might not refer to a measurable distances at all?

            Fenn once said in a Q&A [paraphrasing] he was not ready to say the chest is not in water.

            I thought at the time… well fenn, you might have not been ready, but it seems to me.. ya just did.

            Later fenn was more or less forced to give this idea an answer… “not under water”
            Some wanted to argue that under does not mean in… technically correct… but fenn, imo, needed this thought-out response to cover more than just one topic, in or out of water…

            If the chest was below creek bottom level, some would say that the chest is still in water, right? But to be under water, one must get in water to place or retrieve the chest…
            So in mind, fenn thought hard about not only eliminating the thought of a water retrieval, but a legal stance, if needed later to cover…’in and below’ as searcher not needing to be submerged in water for “retrieving” … and not be accountable for those who wanted to argue that someone must be ‘in’ water to get to the chest.

            I think… fenn did the same with the poem… words with more than one usages… that will fit perfect to the solve, but not easily read as.
            But, who’s fault is it on how it is read? I hardly think the poem is vague… imo. So far… I’m just not smart enough to understand the complexity of it.

          • “I hardly think the poem is vague…”

            Okay well how about we just say on the surface it seems vague and can roughly and even almost perfectly seem fit into numerous scenarios. It is very precise to one scenario that only FF knows.

          • The poem is vague! It seems to be doing its job very well. At first it seems too easy but after a while it takes new dimensions sending us searchers into all kind of rabbit holes. Each take our own interpretation, one that goes with our personalities maybe. Those who like numbers pull coordinates out of it. Those who like pictures find hints in the books and scrapbooks. Some are experimenting with acronyms, anagrams, word counts, etc… History of the US, Vietnam, Natives, art collecting, bible passages, black magic and so on. At the end the poem has too much information, I think. Just like a mud puddle is as big as the ocean.
            Sometimes I wonder if Forrest miscalculated the complexity of the solve. I mean, some can get in certain parts of his head but not 100% of it.

          • “Sometimes I wonder if Forrest miscalculated the complexity of the solve”

            Oz10, I wonder the same thing. It is easy to him because he knows the clues and the path. Because of that bias I am sure it is hard for him to tell how easy it would be for others to understand the clues.

            Then again we do have the comments about thinking 100 or 1000 years before someone finds it. To me though it seems like if it is ever found it would be sooner rather than later. That is of course unless we evolve into more intelligent beings that will have no problem figuring out the poem. IMO eventually there will be less searchers as the years go by and people give up realizing they have been soundly beaten by this poem. That is assuming it is not found soon.

          • Aaron, I agree with that. That is why he said it could take hundreds or thousand of years. But if enough time goes by like you said and nobody finds the treasure, it could become almost like a myth. Like El Dorado. Almost no one is looking for it but if found I want to hear all about it.

          • Aaron…
            Right, we can make it fit in any area ‘we’ want. That’s my point… the only thing that is vague at this point is where to start with the first clue and ‘why.’
            Something was unknown by prior searcher at the first clue, and still seems to be ‘as more arrive’… but still … they got to the correct location and had told fenn what he needed to be told… clues deciphered.
            So the poem isn’t so vague, as much as, nailing down the first clue is more complex than we thought or think.

            For curiosity, I would like to know a closer head count of how many searcher have told fenn their first clue that is correct [ even just from e-mail alone]. I think many would be surprised at the possible number.

          • Seeker,

            I do agree with you that the first clue is vague and it is easy to say that because many people are still trying to get that and the ones that do have it do not know it for sure. How do you know how vague the rest of the poem is though? Everyone does not agree on what are clues, what is instruction, what means distance. People are not sure that NFBTFTW means driving a care or not. PIBHOB to me is just about as vague as WWWH. The first clue is the most vague indeed. One good hint at this is that we are told we are halfway there if we get the first clue. My point here is that the vagueness of the remaining clues also lends to not finding the location of the first clue thus attributing to it’s vagueness. People have arrived at the first and even second clue. They cannot verify they were at the right starting point because the can’t figurte out additional clues and just wonder off in the wrong direction. This was confirmed several years ago. I wonder how many people have done the same thing since? I could have done it myself and not even have known it.

            So with that being said I think ultimately it is not the first clue that is so hard. It is the verification of that clue because of it being vague and the remaining clues that allow you to make that verification being vague. “You won’t realize that you have have unlocked the first clue unless you found the box.” Does this mean we will have to wonder through the clues not knowing anything for sure unless we found the TC?

        • Oz,

          Careful – you seem a bit anxious and you don’t want to give away your favorite secret where do you?

          Over on The Blaze page, charlie said that somebody sent Forrest a picture of the blaze…(I think). But that ff had to stop short of confirming the clues solved to that point (I think). Is that what you read there? Do you think that is something that charlie would even know?

          I have a nice blaze pic! And I believe that I understand the sanctuary…

          What does the – all knowing Oz (to the tenth power) think is going on here?

          • Hello luminous elements, I don’t know what is happening over there. Do you think it’s possible? …a long shot?

            Tell me about that offerings place that you now understand. I’m just here minding my business looking for the beginning and the end, double end. Did you find a good place to fish for trout year-round?

          • Oz, You have a good memory! The answer to your Trout question is, Cracker Barrel. I understand about the sanctuary and if you don’t we are not headed toward the same solve.

    • Ha! OZzie,
      If you’re asking me my opinion what fenn means by a “good map”?
      I refer you to the “and?or”.
      IMO you can toss Randy in the trash. I think the “Right Map” is more helpful, if not the necessary way to ‘solve’ the clues in the manner fenn might have had to follow the clues.
      {yep, there are a few ATF comments involved with that thought}.
      The “right map” with the needed “details” Those details pull the clues together… not decipher them, mind you… but finalize them… how they all connect properly, by using the Right Map’s details.

      So, IMO, Tex from Texas, needs to be on site to drive the cattle home… no need to stop to shop or call ET… GE just gets ya started. The poem is a map, and is need to add the the right map detail to.
      Or it could be the other way around, The poem’s details are in the map to be placed in the right order.
      Maybe the right question might be is; Where’s the map?

      LOL. IMO, that is.

  24. Thanks to Sheriff Billy I listened to Michael Martin Murphy’s rendition oh ‘Strawberry Roan’. Martin frst gives a little history behind the song and he said something I have never heard, “Can you eat the frog?’. Maybe that is why Mr. Fenn said solving the poem gets easier as you go. Ya just have to get the tuff stuff out of the way first!

    Yeah, I am easily entertained.

    • Mr. Vox-

      You and I speak the same language. That sir, is a sliver of private property, and within the 100 meters agreement.. If it is there, 1/3 is yours, kind sir.

      In the hunt, as I got closer and closer to the end, the posse was cognizant of the possibility that someone else might beat us to it. How frustrating it would be to have the final solve, but have someone beat you to it!

      You sir; are at a disadvantage because of your circumstances of distance. It is my opinion after talking it over with “the boys” that we would “cut in” anyone with the final solve, but was beat out by circumstances.

      In Kansas, a handshake is your word. We sir, had an electronic handshake, an agreement which I intend to keep.

      I’ll let you know;

      Billy

  25. A lota strange creepy people are on this blog tonight! I am truly scared, there are Curious Hobbits, creepy Seekers, shoot from the hip Zaphods, randawgs, Voxes, I could go on and on, but I think I’m callin Sherif Billy to clean house with his deputy, of course. I could just go on and on with this frightful line of clue givers, but I do not wish to pick on the Ladies…

    After all, I am a stick figure cartoon character who wears an upside down funnel on my head, and I have a wonder dog too. I just need to get off my train at the next station.

    TT

      • Lol BW. I do think that everyone on this blog should stop hiding behind their pen name or pseudonym and tell us all who they really are. Then again I have a feeling they have much to hide.

        • Watching, good luck with that “fantasy
          suggestion”. I suggest that rather than
          worrying about it, you work on solving the
          poem.

          The above is all my “opinion”.

        • TT – what’s all this rasculous-ruckus about??
          i mean.. is it full-moon up there ..again?! 🙂

          Watching – “Biill Gates” …heard of her?? 😛

          • I did a quick Google search for you when I first responded to your posts, Sherif – you weren’t difficult to find!

            Also, thanks for your email. I wish you and Katie good luck and happy hunting!

          • voxpops – i might be wrong again but,
            it def doesn’t require any special Insp. Clouseau talents, to realise that W Schaetzel is actually the top-secretly-unofficial-name for the R.H Cap’n James T Kirk ..right? – ‘Enterprise’.. ring a bell?

            ..it’s hardly Vulcan-science is it? ..i mean, lost a grumpy dalek much lately, or..? 🙂

            (oh wait!! ..is that ,,is that a large Tardis materialising on top of my new Ferrari?!)
            🙁

          • The Klingon on my starboard bow tells me that you’re exaggerating again, CH: that’s not a Ferrari… it’s an Anziel Nova! (Maybe the bright red colour confused you.) But given they’re as rare as a 10″ box full of gold, consider yourself a winner anyway.

            All Dalek’s are grumpy, which is why they… E X T E R M I N A T E !!!

          • yep spot on voxs – and it just-so-happens that Burt Munroe turned the Anziel into the world famous ’68 Chevy Nova – but i prob didn’t need to tell you that obvious fact, i’m sure 🙂

            btw Vox, sounds like you are quietly closely acquainted with Klingons, huh..
            (sheesh.. jus when ya think ya can trust someone.. 🙁 )

            ..kens, quickly! fire up that ’71 Super Bee and head south – i just swiped a crate of “Lummi spec. vintage tequila” from his crappy Tardis, and am currently leggin’ it for our secret RZ-at the border, remember?

            but don’t worry, there’s this island i know
            …it’ll be fun!! 🙂

        • I thought only Indulgence was hiding and everyone on hoD is who he/she says he/she is. I mean, even ff wrote his father advised to always tell the truth just not all the truth. Can you be a bit more specific? Are you saying you Watching are not who you say you are Watching? Isn’t Forrest Forrest? Dal Dal? JDA JDA? curious hobbit curious hobbit? Goofy Goofy? Seeker Seeker? Zaphod73491 Zaphod73491? Tom Terrific Tom Terrific? Sherif Billy Sherif Billy? Mindy Mindy? ken ken? Randawg Randawg? Oz10 Oz10? Voxpops voxpops? Blex Blex? Twingem Twingem? Wildbirder Wildbirder? ColoKid ColoKid? Lugnutz Lugnutz? Jeannie Jeannie? CharlieM CharlieM?, OS2 OS2? GEYDELKON GEYDELKON? Charlie Charlie? pdenver pdenver? Geez – it’s gonna take a while to list everyone on hoD. I’ll finish later….Have a great day!

          • Curious Hobbit-
            Thanks. A friend of mine once accused me of being “as funny as a hundred-year flood”. For certain there are many folks on hoD a heck more funny, smarter, nicer, creative and imaginative than me (or is it I). I think I know who I am and I’m okay with that. As FF quoted from his book TTOTC in Feb 2017 scrapbook 167: “I wish I could have lived to do the things I was attributed to.” Below are some quotes attributed to Albert Einstein that I think speak to the genius and essence of FF. Seems at least two of them have your name all over them. Take care…

            I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.

            The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.

            Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

            A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?

            Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value.

            Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school.

            The only source of knowledge is experience.

            The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.

            No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.

            We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.

            Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.

            Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.

          • Utahkid

            I love your quotes from Albert Einstein;
            Very thought provoking – Thanks for sharing them with us – JDA

          • Mr. Kid, Mr. Vox and Mr. Curious—-

            Apparently, there has been a time warp transgener-cathip-ulum and I have inadvertent been transformed from Sherrif riding the trail to Captin of a transformer or what?

            Time travel as it seems has benefited me by accident. Mr. f said that the cache might not be found for 1000 years. It seems while riding my horse Pegasus chasing down some outlaw….we must have broken some time barrier continuum or thing…

            Anyhow when I pulled back on Pegs reins…..I had been trans formed into Capt. Kirk……..a thousand years distant.

            That as you know means the treasure can now be found. I find myself strangely alone, viewing a vast waste land from above.

            The crew it seems as abandoned me and I am not quite sure how to work the transgender thingamagig to get me down to the surface of this frozen planet.

            Anyway, I wanted to let you all know what happened, and that I have arrived at the special place (IMO) one thousand years distant, that I am moving with confidence, and about to depart to that place.

            Good news Mr. F it looks a if it could be the fountain of youth. Pegasus must have run all the way to Florida! Call Mr. De Leon, by Golly Scotty, (Mr. Vox please declare your nationality if you please)..getting into the transgender machine to transport me to the surface… and about to push the button…..

            to be continued….

          • Sherif “Captin” Billy
            You sure do get around. Too bad you didn’t go back in time to the spot and second ff parked his car! Course then we might not be here “now”. If I’m thinkin’ correctly, ff supposed no one really dies until the last person with any memory of him / her dies. Thanks to you, good news for those of us you mentioned – we are still alive a 1000 years from now! Bad news is I don’t think I can be of any help with your “current” (fortunate / unfortunate) predicament. I do have a question, however. Back here, we’re still in the early age of AI – Artificial Intelligence. I’ve wondered if the poem were to be inputted to IBM’s Watson what the outcome would be. But then I recall ff emphasized imagination as much if not more than knowledge is needed to find Indulgence. In your “current” state a 1000 years ahead of us, I imagine here in my “current” state the AI machines must be incredible, maybe even have evolved to AII – Artificial Intelligence & Imagination. Can you speak to this at all? Safe travels wherever, whenever you go.

          • Sheriff Billy quit eating those mushrooms your finding while in search of indulgence. LOL

          • I loved the Einstein quotes too. Gonna nail ’em up in grandsons robotics club garage workshop. HS kids need healthy inspiration to guide rash energy.

          • Sherif Billy, Seeker and Mr. Spock – On Einstein’s quote about getting from A to B and home of Brown logic:

            All grizzlies are bears, but not all Brown bears are grizzlies.

            Google: Cinnamon bear

            Is that the important clue, Forrest? See, Seeker, I can use logic AND my imagination. And I have always loved Star trek.

        • Watching,
          What’s the point?

          If you’re chatting with a bunch of guys sitting at a counter of a dinner, Blabbing about how ya’ll can solve all the worlds problem in the same time it takes to down a few coffees, do you insist everyone wear name tags??

          What are you hiding?

          • Note to ship’s log…..

            I arrived on the surface on this strange planet. No intelligent life forms, only Hippies.

            I spent the better part of a day searching for anything meaningful. I found 4 abandoned gnome houses (no kidding, Mr. f you paying attention?) Nothing there. I got plenty cold with wet feet. I even looked under a small waterfall with no luck.

            I found an Aspen tree with illegible carvings too. Maybe I need to pay more attention to the intersection, but which one?

            Mr. Vox, I checked out your spot to no avail. If you care to contact me by email and give me more precise coordinates, or discuss time travel feel free. My email is from when dinosaurs roamed the earth…my first initial and my last name @aol.com

            Those Klingons who think they can trick Capt. Kirk, please realize there will be a challenge question which must be answered correctly before the password to the ships mainframe s divulged.

            It is my thought that Mr. Vox will know the answer, if he wants me to search that barren landscape.

            Least I am shot dead by my Deputy upon returning to Kansas, please plant some Lillies over my grave.

            Best regards to all

        • Watching—-

          The name is Franklin Percival Wickhampton. I am a nuclear physicist from Liverpool, England. I own a Great Dane named Edmund, and also have an aviary which houses several talking parrots.

          My wife has six fingers on each hand and speaks 7 different languages. We were married in a canoe on the Amazon during a typhoon. She is named Abigail and has proudly given birth to our six son’s.

          I have nothing to hide, and feel that being forthright is the correct path to take. I would be happy to produce “papers” if you don’t believe me. I am also in the Guinness Book of World Records for most raspberries eaten during a U2 concert. Check for yourself. All the best to you sir, though I must say I am quite alarmed at the lack of trust shown here towards the HOD bloggers. Good day.

          • Sparrow (errr… Franklin)
            Pleased to meet you. From your introduction, you sound like someone who can help. I received an email from a Nigerian prince Abacha Tunde who needs assistance to resolve a legal matter related to his humanitarian work in order to reclaim his family fortune. He offers great financial reward to those who help. Given your apparent stature and financial resources, may I forward you his email and tell him to count on your help?

          • Kid—

            Oh thank you so much. I already had the e-mail for Abacha Tunde, but it no longer appears to work. I sent him several thousand dollars which he was supposed to return to me very quickly after he settled a legal issue. He assured me he would contact me again soon, and that I would greatly profit, but I haven’t heard back from him. Receiving new contact information for him would be greatly appreciated.

          • Sparrow (or is it proper to address you as Lord / Sir Sparrow or Lord / Sir Wickhampton?)
            I forwarded a document to your private email address with Abacha’s information. His instructions are to just click on it to open. A pop-up message will display asking you to enter your US SSN or UK NIN along with your bank account number and pin. This is to verify you are who you say you are (we’ve just gone full-circle back to the beginning). Just ignore / bypass any warnings or alarms from your security software. My guess is you’ll be busy for a while with more important matters, so you needn’t respond to me. I’m just glad I could help the two of you connect again. Cheers!

          • KU – that’s “Lord Baron Capt Sparrow Sir” to you ..mister!! 🙁

            ( ..don’t worry Lord Baron Cap’n Sparrow Sir – i’ve requested the “walking-plank” deck-side asap, as we speak 🙂 )

            ( ..don’t worry KU, you’re def next after Seeker, so don’t faint just yet 🙂 )

    • LOL…. Gee TT, I don’t want ya to think i’m ‘creepy’… I am… I just don’t want ya to think it!

      Oh! FYI try lamp shades instead of an old plain funnel… ya have more choices of what to wear with it than just plastic or galvanize coats.

  26. SHERIF BILLY”S AND DEPUTY KATIES”S SHOPPING LIST

    Native Americans
    Leprechauns, gnomes and sprites
    Chickens and Turkeys
    National Monuments
    International war and conflict
    Men who sacrificed their lives for their cause
    Manifest destiny
    Lightning
    Hitler and WWII
    Heritage
    Trout
    Mexican
    Bacon
    Folklore
    Santa Fe Trail
    Herbs
    River Bathing
    Twine
    Bull in the Trees
    Hippies
    10’ x10’ White X
    Hole
    Indian Pottery
    Mountain Men
    Rare Gems
    Buffalo
    Spanish X
    Dragoons and The Army of the West
    Wrecked car
    Turnips
    Lead Ore
    Wetlands (all types)
    Lone chair
    Campfire
    Refuge
    Hiking
    Colorful Historical Characters
    End of the Rainbow
    Bravery
    American Frontier History
    Entrepreneurs
    Land Barons
    Fly Fishing
    Switch Spanking
    Porcupines
    Canyons
    Heritage
    Camping
    Knife and Forks
    River Confluence
    Math and
    10,200 Feet
    Did I forget anything Mr. f?
    I can’t play this game anymore or they are going to fire me, I gotta get back to Sheriffing…..The Deputy and I have so many wonderful memories. I leave you with a poem Billy wrote to make you smile as we part ways……
    Happy Trails to all

      • Speaking of TV Evangelists, has anyone every noticed the similarities between Dr Gene Scott and the flamboyant stars of the World Wide Wresting Federation (WWWF)??

    • dear mr Billy – yes, i know exactly what you’re saying (re: Manifest Destiny being a vital ingredient), i mean.. if i had a dollar for every time i prepared a 5star gourmet meal and thought “hmmm.. these burgers could benefit from a small pinch of Manifest Destiny” i’d prolly have at least $21per week.
      (but don’t worry, i’ll pop an extra few in my shopping-trolley, just in case you run out 🙂 )

      btw, i think you forgot to publish your funny poem, as i suspect that there might be a few here that need some cheering up today – but i’m pretty sure it’s just haemorrhoids again, so..

      (JDA – does it hurt to sit down?? 🙁 )

      • CH;
        As a world traveler, I am sure that you are aware that if one exposed himself “in the wood” – one can expect at least one insignificant mosquito bite. JDA

      • JDA – coincidentally “one insignificant mozzie bump” is actually my middle name ..but shhh, don’t tell Jonsey 🙁

        and yes, i knew if anyone could possibly survive a global meteor event, then it’d polly be you, so.. glad you ok 🙂

        (wait a minute!! ..did you say “internet problems”??)

        ( ..MEDIC!!! 🙁 )

      • Mr. hobbit-

        Yes you are too correct. Too much manifest destiny in the recipe leaves you scalped, eyes poked out, naked and emasculated. That leaves you begging others to put you out of your misery as they make fun of you and push you around. I make sure I always use but just a pinch. That stuff is dangerous.

  27. “This is of course just my opinion, and I know those who disagree will point to the answer that Forrest gave where he essentially said that he followed all of the clues to get to his hidey spot. ” – Blex

    It is hard not to agree with you Blex. If he had to physically follow all of the clues to get to the spot and there was no other way wouldn’t that mean he parked at WWWH? Unless a road is a dead end you can take it from two different directions.

    • To respond to you Aaron (and also Seeker way further up this page), here are the actual relevant Forrest quotes:

      1.) “To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f”

      2.) My question is… when the treasure was hidden, did you follow the clues just like they are mentioned in the poem or did you just go to where you wanted to hide it, knowing that the poem would lead someone there? Does that make sense? ~Tim

      ‘Tim,
      I knew from the beginning where to hide the treasure. It wasn’t until later that the clues were provided to find that spot. I don’t know “…that the poem will lead someone there,” as you asked, but the poem does provide everyone with that opportunity. f’

      In each of these, Forrest is only saying that he followed the clues. He does not use the qualifying adverb “physically” followed as Seeker said high up. All I’m saying is that there are different manners in which one can follow the clues without actually travelling from one point to another. It’s just an interpretation and could very well be a wrong one, but I don’t think it can be dismissed outright. I don’t think that the idea of following part of the poem along a map is any more a stretch of the imagination than interpreting the NFBTFTW line as meaning travel by car, raft, or bicycle. Just my two cents and I’ll freely admit that the idea originated out of an attempt to rationalize my solve area, which I have already accepted to be wrong.

      It’d be interesting to see if Forrest would answer the same type of question using the more solid term “physically traveled” as opposed to “follow”. IMO, Forrest seems to like to only directly answer questions that give him some interpretive wiggle-room.

      • If ya want the question to be more direct… using hiking or walking all the clues… physical can be; relating to things perceived through the senses as opposed to the mind… “visual or visible” for example on a map or even from a far distance. ‘physically seeing the grand canyon from a plane’

      • Maybe the word that is key in the question is “there” as maybe opposed to “where”. Poem words that have made me think.

      • Don’t forget this one –

        3.) Q – “When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area? – Thank you Curtis

        A – “The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.” f

        • Clues can still be followed in order whether walking them out, looking on a map, or a combination IMO.

        • I don’t understand how some can run with that answer. Read the question again, then his answer, he doesn’t answer the question, he gives an answer but not to the question. He tells us what to do, not what he did. IMO
          -B

          • Birdie ya said ~’He tells us what to do, not what he did. IMO’
            OK………
            ‘Should’ isn’t the same has ‘need’ in the context of the question?

            WhatIF we add, fenn’s ~ ‘he followed the clues when he hid the chest’ comment, after this Q&A date.

            Should; Indicate obligation, duty, or correctness…
            Need; require (something) because it is essential or very important

            If fenn had said; The clues *need* be followed in order Curtis. Would that be any different?
            No matter “who” is doing the “following.”… a searcher and/or fenn.

            IMO, he answered the question in plain English / when we add / what fenn told us he actually did, later…

            Apparently, even for fenn, there’s no other way to his knowledge ~ “…did you take the same path that is described in the poem,..”

          • Birdie: I agree totally. He is simply emphasizing that the clues will lead us to the treasure.

          • OK, so we just stay with one Q&A comment and forget anything else later stated involving the same premise that Q&A…
            Q~”Did you take the same path…” A~”… no other way…”
            Nothing to do with;
            “…I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f”

            I guess we could discuss what complete ( complete? ) means…
            I think it means finalized placing the printed poem in the final printing of the book [ no prying prior eyes idea ] and presented to the public… everything completed, idea…
            Or
            fenn did something at the end [ on site ] of the path which completed what was already stated in the poem, and now, making the poem complete.
            Or
            fenn might be only telling 85% of the truth, again and again…

            Yeah, I must be over thinking again… My bad.

          • Thank you Tom. I’m very excited about having the opportunity to finally search my area, hopefully late May. A little advice, don’t get distracted by what others say, you are so close in your thinking.

            Seeker,
            Here’s a little something for ya to think about…his journey will end where everything else begins.
            -B

        • You cannot solve the problem by starting in the middle of the poem. You should start with the first clue and then solve the other eight in order. ff

          • Honestly Seeker, you talk over my head, I’m sorry. I’m a logical thinker, I repeat in my mind until it makes sense to me, his answer did not to me. I read it and all I saw was Mr. Fenn doing the Texas two step around answering directly. The question was specific, I just don’t believe the answer was.
            On a side note, my imagination visa was granted last week. Which means I can leave Australia now. I’ve been saving every penny & even got a second job in a butchers shop for extra. Good luck all!
            -B

          • Oz10,
            Yep, another comment to think about…

            Birdie,
            I’m attempting to use logic as well.
            I mean, at one time fenn said he knows the chest is wet, right… so it must be in water, right? If that is the only comment anyone works with… then fenn later saying, probably wet, physic tells him it’s wet, and the chest is not under water… has nothing to do with the original [prior] comment… so the the chest must be in water to know it is wet… seems logical to me.

          • Birdie,
            I’m attempting to use logic as well.
            I mean, at one time fenn said he knows the chest is wet, right… so it must be in water, right? If that is the only comment anyone works with… then fenn later saying, probably wet, physic tells him it’s wet, and the chest is not under water… has nothing to do with the original [prior] comment… so the the chest must be in water to know it is wet… seems logical to me

            To me the logical question is, how can an object be wet while not being under water, not just assuming the normal.
            -B

          • Birdie;

            Let’s say that Indulgence is in a hole on the bank of a river or stream. Physics tells Forrest that there is going to be seepage into the hole, that close to the river or stream. Indulgence is wet from seepage, but is not “under” water by being “in” the stream or river. Make sense? Does to me. JDA

          • JDA,
            First, it’s good to see ya back at it & your recovery is going well. I agree, there are many reasons something can become wet. If it is exposed the morning dew could be responsible or the spray for a waterfall, Rapids, geysers, ect. Nothing has to be submerged in water to be physically wet, not even close.

          • Seeker, Birdie, Tom B, JDA, et al
            Wet. Does this help?

            https://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v12/n7/full/nphys3811.html

            I know, specialized knowledge – but I didn’t bring up it up first – FF did.
            Plain English tells me wet is / means wet. Does it really matter how it is wet or how much wet it is? I guess it matters to one if it matters to his/her ability to locate it with pinpoint precision. Me thinks not, but I don’t even have a clue anymore.

          • One thing that throws me off about this is the various amount of water flow in creeks throughout the year. If it is next to a creek so that it only gets wet when the creek is high then it may not be wet 100% of the time. If it is in a creek that allows it to be wet but not underwater when the creek is in a low period then when it is high it might be underwater and we know that is not so.

          • Birdie: you said “To me the logical question is, how can an object be wet while not being under water, not just assuming the normal.”

            I agree. That is the question. I take it to mean that the chest is in a location that is constantly damp. For example, a place that moss grows.

          • Birdie. I’m sure you will have a great adventure. I hope you will not be searching in the mountains by yourself.

          • No worries Tom, I won’t be alone, I won’t be going where a 80 year old man couldn’t go, & it’s safe enough for a little girl from Indy.
            -B

          • LOL>>>>> ha!
            How’d we go from the conversation of following clues to wet?
            My ‘example’ of the wet comments was to say… we need to utilize all the comments and not just jump to a conclusion with a single comment.

            ** FYI ~ to add to this wet conversations about the moss, idea… fenn mentioned… how can anything not be wet in the RM’s even if buried 6′ deep.
            Anywhoo… this was a hoot!

      • “IMO, Forrest seems to like to only directly answer questions that give him some interpretive wiggle-room.”

        Very true Blex. If the clues are intended to be followed on a map instead of physically then FF’s answer about following the clues is a true answer. Also, if they were meant to be followed on a map then IMO he would not have answered a more straight forward question about whether they physically needed to be followed. It is understandable as he doesn’t want to give away to much and that would be way too much.

        • Forrest, You said you made two trips from your car to hide the treasure. Besides walking, did you use any other methods of transportation to get back and forth between the car and the hide? Thanks, Edgar

          Edgar, your wording of the question prompts me to pause and wonder if I can answer it candidly, yet correctly. Were all the evidence truly known, and I answered in the positive, you might say I was prevaricating, by some definitions of the word. And if I answered in the negative, you may claim that I was quibbling. So I will stay quiet on that subject. Thanks for the question anyway. f

          Aaron,
          Some may think this might be evading the question.. example; fenn never said he didn’t “climb” over a boulder, or “wade’ through water… [In the positive]
          Or
          [In the negative] Fenn must have use a bike or took his car on more than one one…

          But if we take the ATFs of the topic. two trip, walked, on afternoon, carried the contents first and the chest second… You have to wonder if walking is the only method.
          We have in the poem; “gone alone in there”
          “in the wood” “your creek”. As well as, leave your search partner in the car??

          Maybe other than “walking” the path, or part of the path, requires crawling, line of thinking. Which would require the finder to do the same, and the need for two trips [ for anyone ].
          Only one can get through at a time, and a place for a body not be discovered easily and bones scattered over a large area by strong winds or rained etc.

          Although you’re right, Aaron… if we want to ask a question, word it so fenn can answer and leave just enough room for thought.

          But hey, why not a car, right?

          • Why not a car indeed. I do ask myself what about this poem causes me to have to follow the clues in order? Why do we have to start with WWH and not BHOB? FF said there are numerous places WWH. If that is so how does it help us narrow down where to find the rest of the clues. There are numerous guesses for HoB as well. Why can’t we just find the right HoB? There is a reason and nobody knows it. Is it because we start walking at WWH? Is it because we need WWH to start drawing an X on a map? So many more questions than answers…

          • Aaron-(below), RE: “Why do we have to start with WWH and not BHOB?”

            Because if you figure out WWWH… you’ll be halfway there. If you start at hoB, you’re already behind.

  28. Hi everybody can anybody tell me what post it was when forest was talking about she? I can’t remember what was said about SHE,!!

    • ‘A secret treasure in the chest’ should get you to where you want to be…
      Man that took me forever to come up with. I mean find.

    • Is this the one you meant?

      In a question and answer interview, this exchange occurred:
      “Are there any objects placed in the Bronze Chest that are connected, or have meaning to the place the chest is hidden? ~ Mike
      “No Mike, everything in the chest is straight forward and visual, except my autobiography, which some might find dull. Oops, I forgot, there is one thing in the chest that I have not talked about except to say I don’t want to talk about it. It is something saved especially for the person who solves the clues. I think that person will be pleased when she sees it.” f
      JDA

    • Hi Clint — Seeker and JDA’s instance isn’t the only one. Moby Dickens Bookstore: “There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest. And I’m not gonna tell those people who they are because one of them particularly would faint, I know. And SHE’D tear the countryside up trying to figure out where they’d been.”

  29. Good morning. Not to change the subject, well, maybe to change the subject: Forrest’s new book does not have the double omegas at the end, but TTOTC and TFTW both have them. This has probably been discussed before (more than likely at length), but do any of his books prior to TTOTC have the double omegas? I’m not sure what I’ll know if I know this, but I’ve been wondering about it for a while. Thanks.

    • Hi JonesToo: I do not believe the omegas are in any of Forrest’s other books, but I don’t know that first hand. But I’m sure there are folks here who have Seventeen Dollars a Square Inch or Tepee Smoke who can at least confirm it for those two. AFAIK, the only other time he has used the omegas in outfacing communications is at the end of Scrapbook 50.

      • Thank you for the reply. I haven’t been through all the Scrapbooks, but out of curiosity will take a look at #50.

    • JonesToo
      there is only in the history of ff and his father exchanging a box of strength thing so there where always camped in family, that the same of an OMEGA because in him exists on force and load. That would be OMEGA AND ALPHA, IN THE BOX OF FORCE.

  30. For those who have Forrest new Book “Once Upon A While” just wondering if you would like to share what scrapbooks he is copying here on hoD in his book, for those who don’t happen to have one.
    I believe Dal we need a page for maybe discussing his book.
    Thanks for sharing.
    Bur

    • I agree Bur. I can’t wait for mine. It is still”Pending” – DARN
      I could spend an hour just discussing the cover and what few glimpses we have been given so far. – JDA

      • JDA,
        I’m like you I have seen things that interest me in just the pieces that have been posted. I have my solve area, I’m just looking to see if there could be anything to help confirm this place. Plus I like to see what others think, Forrest has also made quotes at the end of each chapter, curious about them too but believe ones with books won’t post them for awhile. Let the chatter start I’m ready. Bur

    • Hey…I just now finished reading the new book through for the first time. A couple of ho hum differences in some of the stories. Illustrations are great…and Fenn does give his two cents at end of each.

      • Dang it…I was trying to play it down Loco…so’s folks wouldn’t think their missin’ too much.

        • Shoot, ken. Sorry if’n I spoiled it fer ya! But, I figger if there lookin at the pictures, anagramming for entertainment and tryin to decipher coordinates (when Fenn agreed with Spallies that doing so distracted one from the poem), then there missing the banana boat anyhows???

          Nice hearing from ya…..loco

          • tbh loco, i’m prolly sure that Spallies is just a massive natural fibber, imho!
            ( ..i know right? – “shock/horror” 🙁 )

            ( ..i mean, the “Dal-Monopoly” cartoon??)

            ( ..notice that “just in jail” caricature??)

            ( ..i mean.. is that Jake??? 🙁 )

          • CH – I would think that Spallies might take exception to your characterizing her as quite large(massive) in size. And it would seem to be presumptuous of you to doubt that she is not a natural-(“prolly sure”)! As far as being a fibber, she has given me no indication that she is anything less than a straight arrow! 🙂

            Spallies at 2:57 pm said:
            Forrest you said… “If person had the correct GPS coordinates they could find the chest.” Physics says this has to be true. How can it not be? The key word here is “correct.”

            Logically, yes… but wouldn’t that “distract you from the poem” :

            ForrestFenn at 2:59 pm said:
            Yes it would. F

            Forrest does appear to be substantiating Spallies statement that searching for coordinates would “distract” one from solving the poem.

            Fun, as always…..loco

          • LOL, nice one loco – i see what you did there 🙂

            btw, i had a chat with Lord Vader recently, and he said “yes, you’re in – but don’t forget to bring a spare Imperial Star Cruiser” ..so, i’ll immediately send you the coordinates for our next adventurous galaxy conquest – it’ll be fun!! 🙂

            ( ..but don’t tell Spallies!! – she’ll probably tell the Sheriff or something 🙁 )

        • Ken,
          Not all of us have Fenn’s books and we tend to use the poem for answers, but it nice to have other info whether it’s helpful or not. Now I’m just waiting on the discussions that this new book will revel. But thanks Ken for trying to keep us wondering. Bur

          • Hey Bur…For me the “other info”, besides stuff directly from Fenn is all just a big bottle of Chase placebo. Takes up too much space.
            I believe Fenn’s original intent was to follow through with his original plan of hiding a treasure and hitting the pavement with TTOTC containing the poem and some background. This monster has gotten so big that the background has outshined the tidbits that were originally proffered up. More books; TFTW, OUAW and numerous interviews and TV appearances, interactions with MW and HOD. I would not want to be a newcomer and have to play catch up(not ketchup)! If you don’t mind me asking…why don’t you have the books?

          • Ken,
            I’ve also been in this chase since Feb. 2011 so not a newbie. I have read the TTOTC book and have pages printed out of it. Some of the info Forrest put in TFTW book I had already found out early before he even published that book. I have been in and out of the box on my searches and decided that I need to follow the poem more so then try and find things to make everything fit. There is something one needs to understand about Fenn and his life that he has always keep with him and if you can figure that out the the “word that is key” can be understood and also found in TTOTC book. When people says things Forrest has said either in interviews, blogs, stories and so on are just rabbit holes not to follow,please it’s not the poem and a good map, is not always true. He has given us hints over the years, and to me if you have his special place in your radar ( poem clues solved) those hints fall into place confirming that area around it. So to me Ken I don’t need the books but I like to hear what he has written in them. I will get back out to the Rockies one day but not in a hurry because now I understand more then ever and believe my solve area is safe. I also believe I just might know the ones who have been at the 500′ and 200′ mark that Forrest has talked about early in the chase, they have posted their travels on this and Forrest blog and maybe a couple of others.
            So not sure if all I said answered your question but it my story and I’m sticking to it. LOL.

            Good luck in your searches and enjoy the new book. Throw me a bone from it every now and then.
            Bur

          • Hey Bur…I knew you were around for a while…just a comment about the vast amount of cyber info in re. the Chase. Glad you are onto the Fenn and waiting for the right time to swoop in and be the spoiler. That would be cool… Good luck to you too…and have some fun!

          • Ken,
            Another reason I’m curious about this book is that “I know” Forrest has been to the area of my solve – (all I can say is always talk to locals when searching especially ones that know him personally but not of him hiding a chest) – but he has never mentioned this place at any time throughout the years. Just wondering if maybe he does tell now somehow in the book, but then again why tell searchers maybe where “indulgence” is. Of course this is my opinion but …..who knows.
            Ok got to go and watch Forrest at Collected Works Live.
            Bur

      • Thanks locolobo, for posting the link. At least that’s a start to consider. Now to transfer to scrapbooks.
        Bur

      • Thanks loco, I haven’t gotten book yet, and I ordered it Sept. 9th, the day i got the order notice from lou@brunoadvertising.com, Sept 17th, I got an-email from Bruno confirming my order. Oct. 19 I got another email from Bruno telling me to contact Collected Works to place my order I did it that day by phone. Guess that put me at the bottom of the list. Hope I get my signed copy soon.

  31. Notice… taken from an email I got today from the Sierra club…

    Last Tuesday, Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke announced a proposal to more than double entry fees—from $30 per vehicle to $70 per vehicle—at 17 of our most popular national parks during the five-month summer season. If this proposal goes through, U.S. public lands, rightly celebrated as an inspiring example of our democratic aspirations, are at risk of becoming exclusive playgrounds for the well-to-do. The Department of Interior is accepting public comments until November 23.

    • In regards to the new fees at the National parks, if you buy the yearly pass it’s still the same price. I think they are trying to get foreign tourist to help absorb some of the costs. We live near Zion National Park. There’s more foreigners in the park then locals or US Citizens at any given time. I think it’s a good decision. With that one time fee for daily visitors they are able to enter any National Park within 7 days. That works out to $10 a day. Cheaper then seeing a movie. If you plan on making four separate trips to the park you should get a yearly pass. Hope that helps.

      • Park Fees – experienced the same thing in other countries. The locals and citizens pay little or nothing, but the tourists pay much more – and way more than what the US is contemplating on charging. I think if one is dedicated to the parks and can purchase an annual, do so – it is a good support to what we believe in. It is like fishing licenses – I typically purchase an annual each state I visit and consider it a worthwhile donation.

      • 1trailblazer
        Howdy neighbor. At long time ago – seems like ages – I and another Utah chaser had solves in Utah proper and/or through different parts of Utah.
        Some Dal and others have posted about about long ago in the archives. All before ff gave that (infamous) “…not hidden in Idaho or Utah” clue on the Today show. For a bit afterwards I was stubborn and insisted what ff the wordsmith didn’t say gave hope it could be on, above or under either Idaho or Utah. At one time I connected “worth the cold” with ZNP Refrigerator Canyon, just extreme wishful thinking on my part – not a focused solve. On topic, I’ve always bought annual NP and Utah State Park passes – this year the “senior” ones. Still waiting on the federal NP pass – it’s only been 3 months!
        Go Utes!

        • So many wonderful sights in the Parks, just way too many folks in that country. Forrest got us out of the San Rafeal swell and hooked on the chase. We have been on the trail of the treasure for 4 months now, BOTG 3 times this summer. We have solved the first eight clues with only the poem. It is possible. Our solve requires a Park pass. Hope to meet up with a fellow Ute on the trail. Nice to meet ya.

          • Should have said poem, google earth and internet search. Forrest said intersection at tonight’s book signing, I’m thinking I had heard him mention intersection sometime earlier but not sure. In our solve we are at an intersection
            (not a street intersection per say) but a intersection of the clues. The author that was speaking tonight at the signing said “buried” and Forrest whirled his head. If not buried it means he is in Yellowstone. Just a thought.

          • @1trailblazer

            Forrest was talking about the intersection of life and what it has to offer. To me, that is what the chase is all about. Which road are you going to take?
            Good luck

            An Indian Scout and A Saint

          • Thanks, I had a hard time hearing what was said. Amazing what a mind can perceive. I’m taking the high road to new adventures as Forrest has requested. Good luck to all. Lots of snow in the Rockies. Till summer…..

  32. I don’t know if it is just me, so I thought I would ask. Last year, it seemed like people were in a panic, trying to get in one last search because the chatter was that someone was close or had solved the poem. This year doesn’t feel that way to me. Last year was my first experience with having to wait out the winter, so maybe it was just me. Or, maybe the feeling is different because people are excited about F’s new book rather than thinking that the chase may be coming to an end. Any thoughts on this?

    • My thoughts are there are some searchers who are close. Probably the ones that were either 200 or 500 feet from the tc. They must have retraced their steps by now. Possibly even some newbies working different angles. The good thing is if their going in early there living tracks in the snow or mud for us to follow. Good luck to you

      • I think you are right about searchers being close. I just don’t feel the panic that I felt last year on the blog. I hope that if my solution is right, no one beats me to it. If my solution is wrong, I would be happy for the finder and sure hope he/she tells us the correct solve rather than keeping it a secret.

      • I personally don’t think anyone is close at all. I don’t think anyone has a clue to what’s going on. Someone got close and didn’t even realize it at the time. Most likely they visited the Blaze without knowing it, told Forrest, and Forrest figured they’d been within 200 to 500 feet of the Treasure.
        Forrest is laughing his head off at all the different solves and ideas he receives daily. These include my bird-brain Revelations too. IMO the poem is designed for Peggy to find it, and when SHE does she’ll be really happy with what is inside the chest.

        Just kidding about Peggy finding it (although I hope she does)— but I don’t think anyone has any dadburned idea where the chest REALLY is. IMO. lol.

        • Sparrow,
          I agree about no one is close. Yep some have been close, but only in the physical word and not so much on paper [ the poem ]. That goes for the first clue[s] as well, imo.

          However, you raise an eyebow on your Mrs. Fenn thought… I mean, maybe there’s a bronzed baby shoe [ or such item ] from one of the grand-kids inside the chest… That would be a great thing to “have saved.”
          [ note to self; stop showing your sensitive side, people will get the wrong impression.]

      • Blex-
        I think that’s the norm among searchers this time of year. There are seasonal cycles I’ve seen on the blog over the past six years. We generally see visitations go down between now and February…when all of a sudden numbers will spike again as folks start planning for spring searches and Fennboree…
        I believe spring is when we hear so many boasts from folks about knowing where the chest is located and how they will end everyone’s suffering when they go get it in late spring 🙂
        We also start hearing a build-up in ridiculous banter about how Forrest is anxious to have Indulgence found…this comes most often from people who have never even met Forrest.

    • I think there’s a possebility of panic, all right. I would share
      if I thought the audience would billyve me.

  33. Upthread Aaron wrote: “what about this poem causes me to have to follow the clues in order? Why do we have to start with WWH and not BHOB?”

    No reply option upthread, so I’ll reply here.
    —————————————————————————————————–
    … because no matter what HOB (or water high or blaze) you select, it will be wrong, unless you have correctly identified the clues that go before HOB (or any clue after the first).

    It’s true that we have to start with the first “clue” to locate the chest, and then proceed in order. But, in my opinion, there are other things in the poem besides “clues”. And those other things may not be in sequential order at all. These other things are what separate the correct WWH out from all other possible WWHs, and need to be deciphered before searcher ever goes into the field.

    Ken (in Texas)

    • I got you Ken in Texas and totally get that there are likely things in the poem that separates the correct WWWH from other WWWH, but what about the HoB within the correct WWWH makes us understand it? If we are able to locate this HoB within the correct WWWH makes it stand out as a HoB? I guess what I am getting at is if we never figure out the correct WWWH based on other hints then why is it that we cannot find the correct HoB by trial and error? These thoughts make me think that perhaps HoB could be a number of things like a river or creek with brown trout. If we have to have the correct WWWH first then it would make since that HoB is something that is not easily identifiable outside of the correct WWWH.

  34. Over the past 24hrs the number of visitors to the blog has more than doubled from about 635 visitors/hr to over 1500 visitors/hr…
    I say this so that you understand why there might be some slowdowns around here. What I don’t know is why all the new folks are here. Usually that kind of increase is due to a national story about the hunt on TV…
    I have no idea what might have aired but folks are checking us out…

    • I had not heard about the chase until the death of the searcher going down class V rapids. I have also read that TTOTC has made the top 100 list of Amazon. (Impressive)
      Recent publicity of Fenn’s treasure has drawn lots of people. Rangers are going to be busy this spring.

    • Just a thought, I sure hope Fenns e mail address is protected a hacker could have my solve. Just thinking….

      • Blazer,

        HACKERS – It is for this exact reason why I do not share the details of my solve with Forrest when I email him. Instead I include a photo or two of the area in which I am looking that I hope he recognizes and then a description of the things I have found related to the clues that would only make sense to him.

        Am I being too anal from a security perspective? Perhaps, but that’s an area I am familiar and at times it can be a curse. With over $2 million bucks at stake, I think it a little foolish not to be protective of my hard work. Perhaps others here think otherwise. That’s your choice.

        Honestly, I’m kind of dumbfounded in a way that folks would lay out all their hard work, especially in email form, with the hope it is somehow secure. A WISE searcher should, IMO, assume the exact opposite.

        There’s a reason why the US military uses a decdicated, stand-alone, system I am very familiar with called SIPRNet, Secure Internet Protocol Router Network.

        Lose lips sink ships. That ship could be yours. Think about it.

        Pinatubocharlie

        • I thought about that before, and got concerned, but now I look at it realistically. A hacker would have thousands of decent solves to sift through. Because we are all masters of writing great solutions to where the treasure is not, they would have a real mess on their hands. Therefore the paranoia has more to do with the overconfidence we each have in our half baked solutions….ha, yeah it was a tough year.

          • Wow, it seems that paranoia does amp up close to end of the season. We were so certain that we had the correct solve and emailed it to him. We just went on a search and no treasure. 🙁 So if they want to search my area, have fun. Haha!
            Even if someone else finds the tc, I’m thankful for all the things I’ve learned and I hope everyone remembers that this is supposed to be fun, right?

          • KLT
            Paranoia strikes deep
            Into your life it will creep
            It starts when you’re always afraid
            You step out of line, the man come and take you away…
            Stephen Stills 1966
            Of Buffalo Springfield, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young and solo fame

            Not directed at you in anyway; just your mention of paranoia awoke some very old, fun memories of mine.
            Chase Well…Stay Safe…

          • Hey there Kid Utah, are you in Northern Utah or Southern Utah. Crosby Stills and Nash should have been Still Nash and Crosby in my opinion. You sound like the kinda guy that would join up on a search. I seriously think I have the correct location as I’m sure you do to. Lets compare notes someday in person and see if we’re in the same area.

          • 1trailblazer
            Your questions seem straightforward and innocuous. But think I’ve caught the paranoia bug that recently hit other folks at hoD. Here’s best I can do in my tired, weakened and unfocused condition.

            Why didn’t you include Eastern, Western and Central Utah in your question? Was it a trick question? We better get us a good map and draw lines so we understand one another where north, south, east, west and central begin and end. Maybe bring a flashlight and sandwich, too. Just a little dry humor on my part.

            If you had asked if I am in Utah I would have answered in the affirmative, often, just “not at the moment” and not as often or as long as I’d like.

            Over my long life, I’ve entered into a few partnerships. The best and longest-lasting one has been with my wife. With her I travel the peaks and valleys, hills and plains, stormy seas and calm waters. Not sure what I said that you heard sounded like I’m the kinda guy that would join up on a search “partnership”, BOTG or otherwise. Five+ years ago, I met up with another chaser; we made separate BOTG journeys all with no Indulgence found. We did find a friendship. I am now confident only that I don’t have a clue anymore. I bring no solution, not even a “begin”. I’d be companionship in the search to find Indulgence – there’s plenty of others on hoD who would be the same – but sounds to me like you already have good company and don’t search alone. These days, I may not search often, but when I do it is always alone. That doesn’t mean no one knows my general whereabouts or timetables, just not all the specifics, similar I suppose to other searchers and ff when he was gone for spells of time away from Peggy. And although I’m not as agile or daring as I used to be, my BOTG to find indulgence are planned for one afternoon (or is it after noon?) where it’s reasonably safe for a 79 or 80 year old man to venture. Undoubtedly at this time, I’m not the kinda guy to help you or anyone search for Indulgence with or without BOTG. As I recently cited to Seeker, it’s me not you – really.

            But please, feel free to tell us all precisely all about your solution right down to where “X” marks the spot. I’ll sure read it and am fairly certain others would, too. And I promise (fingers-crossed) I won’t go there til Spring 2018. Then again, may be better if you wait til after you have Indulgence in your hands. Just havin a bit of fun – or are you?

            Meeting and finding rapport or friendship with you and other chasers appeals to me. Other TTOTC folks on hoD and elsewhere have done just that. We could hike somewhere, just not with any focused confidence intending to find Indulgence. Maybe Fennboree 2018 – I’m giving thought to attending but no serious planning yet. One thing I’ve learned, no matter what I think and plan, be prepared for it to unfold completely different. Reminds me of a best friend who would remind me when I needed reminding that “Life is really one Big day – with lots of little rest periods.” My friend has long since passed and I miss him so, yet he is still very much with me much like how I think Fenn supposes his Father lives on in ff’s and now our memories.

            Chase well…Stay safe…

            p.s. I have many favorite spots in Utah. If I had to choose one and only one I couldn’t. It would be too difficult – kinda like telling ya how deep a hole in Utah is: Kennecott or another. Partial short list includes Garr Ranch on Antelope Island GSL, Wolfe Ranch – Delicate Arch in Arches NP, Gifford Homestead-Barn, Fruita in in Capitol Reef NP, Mt. Timpanogos summit, under any bridge in Natural Bridges NM, Cave Spring in Canyonlands NP Needles District, too many in other Canyonlands NP districts, on or under the historic Rockville Bridge over the Virgin River, too many in Zion NP but Virgin River at the Narrows and Checkerboard Mesa a couple. Also North Rim of the Grand Canyon which I consider Utah’s extended southern border! Lately, my wife and I have talked about a place in red rock country – possibly with a palm tree or few but not necessarily.

          • Thanks Kid Utah, my downfall, I like people way to much, I talk way to much, I trust way to much, but I’m trying my best to just zip my lip.
            If I find indulgence my X will long be forgotten and never told of, only because I think Forrest would want the same. Take care and have fun

          • 1trailblazer
            Liking and being likable, trusting and being trusted, communicating and having good friendship and fun are all important to a degree. Certainly didn’t mean to imply anyone do or be otherwise. Sometimes I tend to write too much and/or am not well-understood by others. I tend to agree with you on part of your final comments, but last time I wrote on that topic under the finding Indulgence discussion thread, it raised a little storm with some folks.

            I’m just a soul who’s intentions are good
            Oh Lord, please don’t let me be misunderstood

            (1964 Bennie Benjamin / Gloria Caldwell (Horace Ott) / Sol Marcus)

            Enough said. Till we chat again or perhaps meet up someday.
            Chase well…Stay safe…

          • You are an “Animal ” hope to meet up someday and with or without the chest. I like the way you speak.
            Kudos

          • You have been there and done that as I see. Keep on trekking till the day we die that’s my motto.

          • That’s correct and we have a lot of fun camping and exploring, probably having more fun on this site. I’m trying not to be to serious about the treasure because not sure what I would do with it once I find it. I only wish Forrest would have walked 10 miles so we weren’t doing our hiking in a 2 mile radius. I feel like my left foot is tied down and walking in circles.

          • I’m always in the paranoid mode specially when it comes to computers, tablets and smart phones. I do not keep anything on those devices that pertains to me. I have been with computers way back in the DOS days. I use inscription all of the time and do not keep anything on my electronics and store them on an encrypted thumb drive. I have never had problems.

            Only with the Chase 🙂

            CharlieM

          • My God! Now CharlieM posts of paranoia. It’s spreading like a virus – soon of epidemic proportions! See posts to Seeker and KLT. Oh the humanity…

          • Ha! Kid Utah! No paranoia here, but we all have to assume we’ll be hacked at some point in our lives. We just move on. Hope you are closer in your solve. Mine was a big bust!

            Best wishes!

        • Pinatubocharlie,
          I don’t pretend to know anything about computers, software, these type of security 0’s and 1’s things.
          But I think fenn was smart enough to think about some of the possible things that could happen…
          I recall a SB where fenn posted newly found pics of the chest [i think], on stored away external hard drive. If he had the forethought of external hard drives for some information that could be hacked [like prior writings of the poem or the book]… he might have thought about e-mails to be saved as well.

          Personally I can’t bother being paranoid about someone finding a theory of mine and worry they have a jump on me or something. LOL they’ll never understand what I say anyways.

          • Seeker,
            First KLT and then you post on the same day and thread mentioning paranoia (see my response to KLT). Yikes, I better go check my source of water supply! Guess that makes me the paranoid.one. I really need help since I don’t have a clue anymore. Even if you’ve shared in the past, please help and remind me what is your first clue? Or do I ask too much?

            Sometimes I think understand what you post. Sometimes I think I don’t understand what you post. In both cases, it’s me not you. Really, it’s me not you. Just call me George.

            Gotta go check that water supply.

        • Hackers: If they are smart they will be looking for 2009-2010 receipts of air travel, rental car and hotels that ff inadvertently left there. The hundreds of thousands of general solves will be safe. Lol…

        • We gave our solve to Forrest only because he has said nobody gives him their solves. My search is for truth. That’s why we will give up our solve next summer if we do not solve the location of the blaze and chest. I hope somebody finds it next spring, even if they hacked my e mail. Hopefully not the FBI.

          • Give up your solve to everyone? That’s crazy and I don’t think FF would want you to. Plus have faith, you have just as much of a chance in finding it as the rest of us. Please don’t give up!

            Surely, no one is hacking any of us here, especially not the FBI. Think positively and move on……always.

            Best wishes!

          • I already told Forrest we would never give up his secret spot, was just seeing what comments would come up. Ha ha….We told Forrest in an email that we know he will be in Yellowstone for eternity as will the chest quite possibly. Most soldiers like my father that served 23 years in the Marine Corp and 3 tours in Vietnam, wanted there resting place to be in a military grave yard such as Arlington. In my opinion Forrest will be watched over by the US Government (NPS) but without all the other soldiers around him, he did say keep people miles away from him. My opinion is he feels this way after his life ends as well. Yellowstone will never change even in 1000 years. Think about it, Treasure not buried because it’s in Yellowstone. Good luck

    • Dal,

      There was a news team at the book signing – they said they were from Dateline. The book signing might have something to do with the increased traffic. It was well attended and the event was sold out – standing room only.

      Covert One

      • CO-
        I believe there was a news crew from ABC Nightline as well. That story is part of the Grayling Creek search that Cynthia and I recently shared. They interviewed Forrest a couple of days ago and came back for B roll of the book signing for their story. I don’t expect that story to be out for a few weeks.
        When that story airs I assume we will see numbers much larger than 1.500/hr. We have seen much higher numbers in the past generated by internationally airing stories.
        1,500 is not an unusual number for the spring rush…but it’s unusual this time of year as folks are retiring their thoughts about the treasure hunt for the winter…

  35. I wasn’t around last year but my opinion is that a lot of searchers would like the treasure found while Forrest is still around. I have spent 4 straight months with my eyes on google earth, and I know every word in the poem, I am constantly analyzing every angle. Just like a drug, I think some people would like their obsession to end with someone, hopefully themselves finding the chest.

  36. One more thing, if I find the chest I will go up there every year and drink a martini with him.

  37. Hi everybody can anybody show me the video where forest was talking about jumping on the chest?or tell me how to get to the clip where he is talking about it thanks Clint .

      • Obviously I do not and was planning on getting it very soon (for the winter shut down) along with Once Upon a While. Thank you for brining that to my attention though HMA.

        Pinatubocharlie

    • I read that story in TFTW. There is a bit more to it, but not much more. Forrest has a great way of telling his experiences in a way to make them very interesting to the reader. I am a veteran of the Vietnam era, so I relate also to his questioning the war. You do your duty and follow orders, but when it comes to your humanity, it’s a different story, and when there is a break in the action, that’s when you see truths in a new light. I recommend the movie, “The Thin Red Line”. It is a great movie presenting war in a thoughtful way not normally seen. Forrest reminds me of one of the characters in that movie.

  38. That feeling you get when you realize you are binge-watching “Ken Burns: The West” on Netflix just because you think it might have a clue to Forrest Fenn’s treasure.

    • HumblePi,

      You are doing the right thing, there is some things in that series that do related to hints Forrest has written about in TTOTC book and also talked about. Now just trying to figure those out might take awhile, but they are there.
      Sorry I can’t be more helpful to what they are.
      Good luck,
      Bur

  39. Hi everybody can anybody tell me if forest was one of the judges in the stick man contest?Clint

      • Clint on
        Two or three or more can keep a secret where all or but one of them is dead. Probably just a speed-typo error, but it’s Forrest with two r’s as in For rest (hmmm….). That’s why I usually type ff or FF. Think Forrest does on occasions, too.

  40. Did Mr. Fenn ever say weather he parked his car along a paved road or a dirt road when he hid the TC?

    Thanks

    • You’re wellcome.

      Obviously (I like using that word, in order to point out how
      silly it is), he parked BEFORE hiding the TC.

      And speaking of things relating to the word “obvious”, I
      think people can and should be more subtle while trying
      to be secretive. Even if not attempting to be secretive, one can be very trying.

  41. Hi kidutah I am not out to win a spelling bee.i just wanted know if FF was a judge in the stick man contest .Dal do you know if FF was one of the judges in that contest? Thanks all Clint

      • OS2 – if you meant those rasculous 17th century pirates, then i’ll say ‘ideal’ ..but if you actually meant modern Somali-ish type pirates, then i say ‘call an AH-64E Apache helicopter someone’ 🙂

        • No CH, we’re like ships passing in the night. I meant the scant reference in TTOTC to pirates. Two as I recall, I don’t know if you have the book, but Fenn’s last chapter about his youth ends with his acknowledgement of it being “a threshold moment”. The warm waters of youth being wasted on the young were over (my interpretation). The next chapter, the big one, is about his Viet Nam years. Followed by some chapters his Santa Fe years. Three eras, plus preface & other content. Two pirate references. Two omegas.

          Pirate reference is in the “threshold” chapter, The other is immediately after the poem. I think the pirates may have been Donnie & Forrest.
          OS2

        • my bad OS2, and no i’m far too talentless to win any cool books 🙁

          fare thee well El Capitan 🙂

  42. Mr. Fenn, Said he didn’t want to say when he hid the chest, so people couldn’t check the rental car records, and see (how far he drove). So, it seems unlikely, that any reference to distance in TTOTC, or TFTW, would have anything to do with the chest location. Just a thought.

    • James,
      If there is an actual distance of measurement in the TOTC… why wouldn’t it be hinting at the clues? More than, how far the clues are from the rental location to the hide location.

      Even if a rental was used… fenn drives to a rental business, drives that to the hide and back to the business, is the only possible way for anyone to have an idea of an area? [ point A to point B and back to A ]
      If he rented it for more than one day and/or used it for other things / trips in the same day. It’s now useless information… by knowing mileage alone.
      LOL he could have rented the vehicle from a business near the Denver Museum and drove MT or back to NM, return the rental, and then went home in his own vehicle.

      “Done in one afternoon” doesn’t say anything to do with home, rental shop, or any other side tracks or “distance” of that travel.
      But, that doesn’t mean something in the TOTC might not have some kinda indicator to “distance” for the clues themselves.

      • Hi Seeker, Yes, I agree with your thoughts. I think another possible reason, Mr. Fenn didn’t want to say the exact date he hid the chest, and made the rental car comment, Is because he used his own car. And even though he said no one was around, when he hid the chest. He really had no way to be absolutely certain, he wasn’t seen or recognized, somewhere along his route.

  43. Remembering all of you who have served this great country on this Veteran’s Day. Thank you for all of YOU.

  44. Here’s the new survey for those who didn’t see the first posting. There are some interesting results thus far. Once there are enough people who participated, the results will be posted here. The link is:

    https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CD6KBD8

    This is for fun and entertainment only. Enjoy!

  45. WAR LASTS FOREVER——–Veterans Day 2017

    A psychiatrist friend of mine, told me one “1/3 of those soldiers who are on the front-lines of war….will never be the same”. I recalled that fact when my 92 year father-in-law, who fought in the Battle of the Bulge, complained of the vivid horror he was plagued with in his nightmares , seventy two years later……

    To Mr. Fenn and all the servicemen and women who have served our great country….I will always remember what you gave for me,… my family, and our country.

    Thank you

    • I fully agree that War Lasts Forever, this holds true for me I was 18 and now I’m 67 and plagued all those years.

      To all of my fellow veteran service members THANK YOU and God speed with your healing, bravery and honor to our great country. I salute you all.

      Everyday is Veterans Day!! 🙂

  46. Today is a day easily over looked, but should never be forgotten for fear of history repeating itself.

    To all Veterans for your undying loyalty to our country, thank you.

  47. My respects and deepest thanks to our veterans.

    Favorite uncle came home ‘not the same’ after 33 months POW in Korea. Town threw him a parade. He made the best of things. Saw him catch and skin an eel for dinner once. Told me Turks & hillbillies like himself were the only ones who survived the camp. Collected his back-pay and put in-door plumbing in the house, 1954, Lincoln, Ill. Thank you Uncle Eddie, wherever you are.

  48. “To care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow, and his orphan.”
    – Abraham Lincoln

  49. email from Andrew @CW book store, my book is on the way! Said about 3 biz days so maybe by next Wed…..hope I have a stick man in my copy, what a treat!

  50. I have a question for whoever wants to jump in. Seeker, this is right up your alley. Did F ever write anything about the treasure chest being wet or was that phrase only spoken? I know he has been asked about it a few times and one time he mentioned that he knows it is wet because of physics. The reason I ask is – maybe F was making a play on words and was saying whet and everyone heard wet. A definition of whet is – a thing that stimulates appetite or desire. The treasure chest sure is whet,

    • Never mind. I found my answer on the tarry scant website. His response to a question on MW was written and he wrote wet. Thank you to the creator of the Tarry Scant website!!!

      • JBL,

        I like your thought process on FF’s comment about the chest being wet.

        I have a theory about that comment… I believe he is referencing “The wet bronze technique”, a method of applying subtle colors to bronze. Physics would tell us us that it is “technically” wet… (so like the fennster). LOL

        IMHO

        –Fennatical

        • I really like that idea too. I think F really gets a kick out of using the multiple meaning of words. There’s also the Comment to the question about who is Brown – “If I told you that, you’d go right to the chest.” I think that once you get to HOB, you just might go right (as opposed to left) to get to the chest.

        • i also think that’s a very clever idea Fennatical, and certainly falls within the physics umbrella ..but why do i get that itchy feelin’ that someone (unknown) is gonna pop-up and exclaim “no specialised knowledge required” 🙁

          ( ..cough coughZAPS!! 🙂 )

      • Even though you found it – Here it is anyway :
        “Mr. Fenn, In your interview with New Mexico True Stories, you mentioned that you know that the treasure is wet. I checked out the date of that interview and it looks like you said that in a February, which could mean that you knew that it had snowed or rained at the site of the treasure chest, or simply because of higher water.
        Now we are in mid-summer, and if we assume that no storms have passed through recently, would you know that the treasure is wet now? ~Thanks, B
        Yes B, physics tells me the treasure is wet”. f JDA

        • Thank you, JDA! Most of the time I am on an IPad when I am on this site, and I don’t know how to copy and paste on it (or how to share a link for that matter). So, thank you very much!

        • Maybe Mr Fenn included a bottle of Grapette in the treasure so that the finder could toast their success. I wouldn’t mind if the treasure was wet in that way.
          Other ideas, he made sure that the hinges and lock were well oiled before putting it out in the elements. Hence the chest is wet since it has liquid on it.
          Another idea is that for a long time it was believed that glass was a liquid that flowed a small but measurable amount in the time scale of centuries (Results disproving this were published in 2013). So with the olive jar in the chest he could have said that physics tells him that the treasure is wet.

  51. Hi everyone this is Clint am looking for one more clip about when ff was standing where the TC is he could see mountains and outher things

  52. It just occurred to me:
    The color burnt umber and
    the color that FF smudged on a report,
    brownish red,
    is also known as ‘ Colorado’.

    Maybe that is a hint.
    (providing that I didn’t mis-remember those stories)

    • Micheal,

      Colorado’s soil has many different colors from one end of the state to the other. This holds true for MT, WY, & NM. Also I don’t believe Colorado is a color, it’s colorful as in “Welcome to Colorful Colorado”

      So…… smile 🙂 for Colorado

    • Michael,
      Wasn’t that the story on the Clovis pieces? Found on a farmers property or something, in MT? but nobody knows exactly where… I might be having a brainfart here, so take what I say with a grain of smelling salt.

      • “In 1988, 56 flaked stone artifacts attached to a large wood frame with heavy copper wire were acquired by Forrest Fenn in Santa Fe, New Mexico.”——–1999, George Frison & Bruce Bradley, “The Fenn Cache: Clovis Weapons & Tools” p. 22.

        “The exact location of its discovery (the Fenn cache) is not known, but apparently came from the general area where Wyoming, Idaho, and Utah meet.”——1999, George Frison, “The Late Pleistocene Prehistory of the Northwestern Plains, the Adjacent mountains, and Intermontane Basins,” The Ice Age Peoples Of North America, Environments, Origins, and Adaptations, p. 272-273.

        “—we have learned that the discovery (of the Fenn cache) was made soon after the turn of the century, possibly in 1902.”—-1999, George Frison & Bruce Bradley, “The Fenn Cache: Clovis Weapons & Tools” p. 22.

        Jake

      • They say the Fenn Cache location was around where UT, Wy, and Idaho meet.
        But the colored dust he marked the page with related to a 2nd clovis cache, Crook County. In Wyoming, but outside of the search area.

  53. Searchers, any help would be appreciated.

    I have been out of the chase for a little while. I have been catching up and have noticed Forrest has referenced stick figures a lot. Stick figure on the cover of his new book and stick figures in some of the last scrapbooks he did. Has this been discussed here?

    On the map page 99 of TTOTC when looking at the left at the draw or canyon there is a what I think looks like a ghost and inside the ghost figure is a stick figure. Also when you flip the map upside down the the first guy with the hat looks somewhat normal but the second guy walking away looks to be morphing into a stick figure.

    What is with the stick figures? Are they a reference to bones? A graveyard? A boneyard? Drawings such as petroglyphs which are carvings such as the running man in the tree?

    I just wanted others searchers insight. Thanks in advance.

    • Are you sure it is page 99 of TTOTC book? The depiction on page 99 of my copy of same is the jet dropping 2 bombs.

      • Yes Bowmarc, that is a map. Look at the far left at the draw. Look close you will see a stump with an arrow pointing down. Now look farther left. Look close or even blow the image up. There is a ghost like figure with a stick figure in it.
        Flip the picture over and look very close, many things to see including the second guy is like a stick figure. Many other things to see as well:-)
        9-important
        page 99- very important

        • Thanks for clarifying DPT. You lost me at draw, I guess, but I am assuming a draw means the canyon like depiction as I see the downward looking arrow on what you have described as a stump. Still looking for your ghost and the others but I am sans a magnifying glass ATM…I think Blex lost his monocle a short while ago so maybe I will dig it out of his soup and use that. 🙂

          Someone else commented on this picture a while back. If memory serves, the comment focused on the apparent “X’s” made by the propellers of the 2 bombs.

          Interesting stuff. Thanks again for clarifying and for sharing.

          • Their is a lot to see in this map page 99. Blow it up and turn it around. So much to see:-). I can help if you need it. I have picked up so much, just unsure what it all means. JF?

          • DPT – I picked up on those initials as well. TTOTC says illustrations are by Allen Polt unless otherwise noted. I guess the artist in this instance has JF for initials.

          • Regarding the illustration on page 99:
            Looking at this illustration, I am reminded of a quote Forrest placed at the end of SB 152: “Life should be an illustrated search for hidden treasures, and not just a guided tour” f
            I think that Forrest was referring to this illustration and that the “guided tour” refers to the guided missiles…and where they point – Just up and to the right of the “Half Domed” rock. In my opinion, this is a critical “Hint” to solving the riddles of the poem.

            Secondly, if one looks above and to the right of the “Half Domed” rock – If one blows up the illustration, a second “Half Domed” rock or “Marker” is seen. This second “Marker” appears to have a square hole in it. To me, this is a MAJOR hint regarding where Indulgence lies. Just put out there for thought and discussion – JDA

          • Good point JDA. As ever, one can draw many a conclusion from FF’s masterpiece. Hopefully someone will bust through his facade and score. Until then, or is it still, life and the chase go on. 🙂

        • DPT,

          Thank you very much for pointing out that arrow. It fits very well into the area I am currently investigating as do other things I see on that page. I would like to add that I believe that arrow may actually represent the infamous waterfall and the grave marker he found nearby in Vietnam.

          Pinatubocharlie

          • Pinatubo;

            I too think that “A” waterfall reminded Forrest of the one in Vietnam – or visa-versa, and I think that the “Arrow Marker” in the illustration may either “be” or point at the waterfall.

            I think that “A” “Half Domed” rock or stone – Tarry Scant – or “marker” plays an important role in finding Indulgence.

            As I pointed out I see two “Tarry Scant” markers in the illustration. Why two? Why is one larger than the other?

            Interesting questions to ponder. JDA

          • Hey there JDA, how you doing? Are you completely recovered from your surgery now?

            I understand your comments regarding the pair of half-domes, but the tarry scant part eludes me, except to say, IMO the entire illustration can certainly serve to define that term. That is, drop your bombs, on target hopefully, and get the heck out of dodge.

            In terms of a correct solve, I believe there could certainly be a physical tarry scant you will see, but it may not be moveable. And then if you “look quickly down” and find the loot, then grab it and beat feet back to your car and head for the nearest bank vault and put it all in one or two safe deposit boxes for a while to give you time to contact Forrest, hire a good lawyer (maybe he knows one), and consider your options. That’s what I plan to do if I’m the lucky one, but the odds say otherwise.

            Take care………

            Pinatubocharlie

          • Pina, I like your interesting thought on the arrow. I always related it to the stump which is just above it , as in the wood.
            Now turn the picture upside down and the stump now turns into a stick figure waving( water high) and a figure of a lady. Also the the image upside down look to the right of the upside down stump( guy waving and Lady figure) there is a lady in a dress walking with an L for a leg.

          • Got it DPT, I see the guy waiving “hi” now. So yeah, your waters high thought makes sense. However, I still can’t the other stick figure you mention.

            BUT, I did find a big fat F on the very left side of the larger half-domed hilltop/mountain, facing upwards towards the sky at an angle. Humm. As you said, this is a very important page in the book.

            Pinatubocharlie

          • DPT;

            I do not relate the two “Half Domed” Markers with the two Omega’s, but i guess if one marker were right-side-up, and the other right-side-down, it would be like two Omegas.

            My “Big Tarry Scant” is NOT movable, my “Small Tarry Scant” is – but not far.

            Confusing? Sorry I can not be clearer. JDA

        • You guys could be correct… but can any of ya explain this;
          Q: Does the book give me any more information than I would get from the poem?
          A: “There are some subtle hints in the text of the book that will help you with the clues.  The poem will take you to the chest but the book by itself won’t.” f

          Ya’ll taking about items and object in the picture[s]… DPT even called it a map… how do you get around fenn saying “hints in the TEXT of the book”
          Note the question asked “information” leaving the door open for such things as illustrations and pictures.
          A bomb is not text, propellers, arrows etc. I have asked this serious question before when folks talk about pics and illustrations. But normally I get the excuse that fenn only tells 85% of the truth…
          I guess when fenn was asked when he hid the chest~ “summer” ~ just means a warm sunshine and dasiy day…

          How do you get around what fenn said to what ya’ll are implying?

          • Seeker, can’t you say that pictures appear within the text? In both a larger sense that the entire book is the text and that there are text on both sides of the pictures. If the pictures are within the text then any hints would still be in the text right? I am just trying to reason it out as FF might if he did do this and had to answer this question.

          • Seeker;

            You MAY well be right, and what we “See” in the PIC’s or illustrations MAY be overactive imaginations – but then again maybe not. True, Forrest does say “Text”

            True, “There are some subtle hints in the text of the book that will help you with the clues. The poem will take you to the chest but the book by itself won’t.” f This is a positive, affirmative statement.

            Saying, “The sky is blue.” does not mean that on some cloudy, drizzly days that the sky can’t be gray.

            Saying that there are subtle hints in the text…does not mean that there can NEVER be subtle hints elsewhere in the book – at least that is how I read it.

            Fact #1 does not negate a possible fact #2.

          • Please let me give it a try Seeker.

            In the sketch I see 3 obvious Xs, several Fs, a JF, and using my imagination, I also see a Y and a O. I’m sure I haven’t found them all, however I suspect that won’t matter to you.

            So yes, there is text in the sketch……IMO. I hope others agree, though I am sure you will happily argue against that thought because it is in your nature to always take the other side, like on a debate team.

            Pinatubocharlie

          • Seeker, I agree with everything you said.
            I have no idea which is more important because one day Forrest says something then contradicts it another.
            So I just use everything I can that makes sense to me. He says there are 9 clues again and again. So I know 9 is important. The illustration is on page 99. I can definitely see many things in that illustration after studying it and blowing it up. Things that my eyes know are definitely there. I call it a map because that’s what it says on that page. M A P when the picture is right side . Flip the picture and you see a guy and a palm tree, flip it right side up and in the palm tree area is an alligator and the letters M A P.
            This drawing is absolutely amazing. I am sure Forrests spent many months if not years perfecting this map. To have a picture look like on thing then flip it and see a whole different picture is amazing to me.
            If you know where to find the two thermometers you know where warm water starts on both maps( right side up and upside down).

            I could not think of why someone would take this much time to create this illustration if it was not important. A lot of time and effort was taken to hid the map in this illustration.

            It deceives your eyes at first glance. It looks like a normal drawing, then as you study it-wow amazing things!

          • Hieroglyphics are pictures that act as writing…Maybe text was short for context of the book…Just a couple of examples for arguments sake.

          • Bowmarc,
            Exactly, Hieroglyphics and petroglyphs were the first text.

            Text was later just organized and put in a book. Textbook.

            Drawings were our first means of communication.

            Drawing to me could be the key word.

            The first thing I noticed when I read TTOTC was the drawings. How unusual they were in a nicely put together book. Like the stick figure- what is with the stick figures??

          • Ok DPT,
            You brought up a good dilemma…
            What we think that might be contradicting. Such as, we need to nail down the first clue or “stay home”
            Then, you won’t know you have the first clue if you don’t find the chest, right?

            Sure, sure, we can try and make excuses, that is common sense; if you don’t find the chest you might not have the right first clue, line of thinking… However, How can we make both comments true to each other? [ not separate ] when fenn talks about the poem or any part of it.

            I think it was Pinatubocharlie talking about letters in the drawing. Are they “aberrations that live out on the edge” or are we just pushing lol… plain English too much? and that aberration is more abstract thinking and not so much a design?

            Don’t let me stop your line of thinking in anyway… I’m still attempting to see the ATF as usable and useful [check and balance ]… not so much dismiss what doesn’t work for me or a theory.

            IT’s the feed back of how you see that Q&A, and not so much how you see the pics / illustration I was curious about.
            LOL just look at the page numbers or lack of… hint? clue? aberration? or just fenn be different?

            BUT, would you agree if these types of pieces of information from the book are there by fenn’s deliberate hand… they are needed? Leaving the comment… “all the ‘Information’ you need to find the chest is in the poem” …standing on the hangman’s trap door?

            Again, not knocking the idea [although some of the thoughts seem a bit far fetch to me]… I’m utilizing the ATF to see how they can be true to each other and not ” contradicting “

          • Just because F says that there are hints in the text doesn’t eliminate the possibility that there are hints in the pictures. He just doesn’t confirm that there are hints. His father taught him to always tell the truth, but he doesn’t always have to tell ALL of the truth. That would eliminate the conflict. IMO

          • JBL,
            Don’t ya think that would be completely misleading? He was asked about “Information” In the book… The simplest answer would be, what he has done in the past… hints in the book will help with the clues… he added “text”
            That’s not telling “all” the truth, idea… that’s adding a suggestion to ‘what’ “information” in the book is helpful, Right?!?

          • Sorry about not proofreading and editing my response. I don’t think that F is misleading us. I also don’t think that any hints in the pictures will help with the solution. I think the hints (if any) may be so obscure that the reason they are there is that F gets a kick out of putting them there. I also believe that the poem leads us to the treasure, the text has more obvious hints, and the pictures have obscure hints that will make sense to the person who solves the poem if he or she studies the pictures enough. I believe F doesn’t try to mislead us, but that he is trying to save us from over-analyzing the pictures. JMO.

          • Ok guys /gals…
            I want to throw one more curve ball at ya…
            Q~ “Does somebody need to read your book to find the treasure or do all the clues exist within the poem?”
            A~ “they don’t need to read my book. But they need to read the poem. The book will help them, but they can find the treasure if they can decipher the clues that are in the poem.

            Have at it … hints in the text of the book… don’t need to read the book. decipher the clues in the poem if you can… and you can find the chest.

            Just for fun… talk about contradiction… ya’ll remember the “Nope, Nope”? No backstory just the poem…?

          • When I first became aware of this TC I had only looked at the poem itself .l just focused on the poem and spent some time with just the poem. I didn’t know anything about FF nor much about the specified states( I am in Canada) . I could only get so far with any ideas of the clues or any form of cohesion of meanings, locations etc. This just seemed way to difficult for me to fathom a shot at it. I put the try aside and forgot about it.

            One day I revisited this treasure hunt and poem and read what I could of FF and his Q&A’s. I never read his books and still haven’t.

            I had read some of the stories that are in the book that were posted online that I could find . So, the Q&A’s and what little of the books I saw, these helped me gather some understandings and worked towards a solve. IMO.

            I can say I needed some guidance and some bits of a back story other than just the poem to be able to proceed . IMO .

          • Agree with JDA. Just because he said there are hints in the text does not mean there are not hints in the pictures as well.

            Page 99 provides very important information in my opinion.

          • Bob;

            I personally do not call it a stump, but here is what some people see as a stump.

            Look at the highest “peak” on the horizon.
            Come 1/2 way down the canyon
            You will see an arrow marker pointing down into the canyon.
            The “Stump” is behind and to the right of the arrow marker.

            Hope this helps – JDA

          • Thanks, JDA. I follow your instructions but the earlier attempts by others was very confusing. What’s all the stuff in and around the palm trees?

          • As the old saying goes – “It is all in the eye of the beholder.” For me, it merely relates to “Trees” in my area – Others turn the page up-side-down and see a guy with a sombrero and LOTS of other things.

            The “mortars” or “Artillery Pieces” can equate to fallen trees – WHO KNOWS??? Good luck guy – JDA

  54. To far to walk. According to Webster’s, the word “walk” can refer to a minimal encloser, where live stock can graze and exercise.

  55. The end is ever drawing nigh. Again from Websters, the word “end” can refer to a place where grain or hay is stacked to dry.

  56. There’s one thing I need to clarify regarding what I said earlier about tarry scant as it relates to my search area. The reason your effort will be worth the cold is because tarry scant cannot be seen during certain times of the year. And I am also in the camp that indulgence cannot be easily seen/found/accessed during the more pleasant months, making shoulder season searches almost a requirement.

    Further, I believe the blaze, waters high, heavy loads, and tarry scant (the object) are all part of the same thing, just different elements thereof. I could make a very good and compelling case that these same features are co-located at my previous search area, but they are not one object.

    However, they are one object in my current search area, something I find impossible to discount. Too bad winter is knocking or I’d be making another trip to the RMs.

    There you are. That’s about as much as I’m willing to share. Please be kind in your retorts.

    Pinatubocharlie

    • Good luck – when the weather gets warmer in the spring or early summer. In the mean-time – stay warm and TRY to STAY SAFE – JDA

    • Hi Pinatubocharlie,

      Thanks for sharing!
      Please clarify, you’re saying that chest needs to be found in the colder months but you’re waiting till summer to BOTG?
      Mark

      • Mark,

        What I was trying to say is that IMO there is an advantage if you are able to search on the shoulder seasons. Water levels are lower if you need to cross a small stream or creek and deciduous trees and some shrubs don’t have leaves to block your view. Plus, there are fewer people to worry about in the event you are searching at a popular spot. Things like that.

        Can you search in the summer? Sure, I just think you’ll be at a disadvantage as explained above. And don’t forget that Forrest has said you could probably retrieve it in any weather (all 4 seasons) if you know precisely where it is. Do I you ask? Nope, but I have a very promising area as mentioned before.

        Hope that helps.

        Pinatubocharlie

      • Hi Pinatubocharlie — in my opinion, weather and season mean quite different things. Forrest has never said you could retrieve the chest in any season, and I believe he has strongly discouraged against anyone searching in wintertime. In the more northern latitudes of the search area, “wintertime” can effectively last 6 months or even longer.

  57. Side note; Collected Works Bookstore at one time was the jail in SF. Billy the Kid had a nice stay there. Oh…I guess Fenn’s answer should have said ” There are some subtle hints in the text of the text…” instead of “… text of the book…”

  58. Question for Seeker, JDA, all others that may have a information about contents of the box. On the website Tarry Scant there are pictures of gold nuggets, necklaces and what not that are taken with a black background. The pictures are courtesy of Dal Neitzel. Why aren’t the pictures of courtesy of Forrest Fenn. Are these pictures given to Dal and are they in another of Forrest’s books? If I recall Dal didn’t know Forrest prior to the chase. ( Dal called himself Mike, if I remember the story correctly). How are these photos courtesy of Dal? Can you answer this question.

    • 1Trailblazer;

      I can not answer your question – ask Dal. He may answer this, or send him a personal email and ask him. His email address is just above his picture, below the “Most Recent Comments”

      If you have not found it yet, above “Most Recent Comments” look for “Forrest Shares” – Below that, click on “Treasures Bold” – It lists a number of the items in “The Box” – Neat – Neat. JDA

  59. Seeker – Which two comments are you referring to when you say “How can we make both comments true to each other? [ not separate ] when fenn talks about the poem or any part of it.”?

    • Bowmarc,
      Pick any two comments…lol.
      The point i was making was to the conversation about pictures and illustrations has hint or not usable.
      But
      Here’s two comments [ they are not the only comments ] paraphrasing;
      1. If we don’t have the first clue nailed down, “stay home”
      2. Will we know we have the first clue correct? We won’t know we have the first clue correct until the chest if found.
      Then of course we have the warning;
      “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f
      And
      Can the clues be solved at home? “Yes in theory,…”
      lol, I guess that’s more than two, but all related to the same topic…

      Now, while ‘certainty’ does not mean ‘know’ it does imply some kinda ‘assurance’ we should know “beforehand”

      Some folks call these comments ‘contradicting… even imply that fenn is only telling us 85% of the truth [ I think that’s a cop-out and a poor excuse not to think ]
      How can we make all those comments be true… without separating them? That will help in understanding the first clue and direct path?
      That’s my point… attempting to understand the ATF that can help us figure out what is being relayed… without the supposedly contradicting each other.

      LOL it’s the same as buried vs. hidden… how can both be true / truthful in the attempt to solve the hidey spot, and not just pick one or the other, because we like it in our perfect, one of a kind, undeniable, will prove it in the next year search/solves we all hear about…

      We have thrown the bones, I’m just chewing on them to figure them out and not guessing what flavor it is.

        • Seeker – I will quote FF in response to your query above: “It seems logical to me that a deep thinking treasure searcher could use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure.”

          • Geez Bowmarc,
            If all ya going to do is quote fenn… how are we going to figure out the ATF comments… lol

          • Try this;
            I warn comment,
            certainty beforehand comment,
            In theory clues solved at home comment,
            nail the first clue down or stay home comment
            And try to equal those to;
            won’t know the first clue until the chest is found….

            Can you make all the comments be true /truthful to help understand a solution without separating them?

          • Seeker, I guess you are not going to get an answer. Typical, huh? Anyway, Tom T. had a write-up awhile back about what we all already know, that of “catch 22”.
            It’s solving the “catch 22”. Example, your buried vs hidden, to answer the hidden part along with buried, we can say it was hidden but know it will obviously be buried with foliage as time goes by. So, it is hidden and buried.
            I don’t see f contradicting himself anywhere really. Solve the clues to get you to the chest, but, won’t know you have the clues correct until you have the chest. The answer, solve the poem. Solving the poem is solving the clues.
            To try to solve individual clues is the deepest rabbit hole there is. Him telling us there are 9 clues was the worse bit of info he could give us. Reason being, people will try to solve the clues instead of solving the poem. Or, they guess. I don’t see anybody being confident or having a sure path if there solve is a bunch of guesses. Only f knows what the clues are, everyone else does not. That means f can say follow the clues to the chest, and knowing the poem solve will give the clues, he can say solve the clues. We don’t know, so there is no way by solving for clues that we can find the chest. If the only time we know what the clues are is when we have the chest, then we cannot be confident if we solve for clues. The only way is through solving the poem. That is the long-winded answer to the catch 22 of need to solve the clues to get the chest but only when you get the chest will you know the clues.
            Point being, don’t look at contradictions in what he is saying but catch 22’s that he is implying. Solving the catch 22’s are just as hard as solving the poem, but it gives f his plausible deniability that he always can fall back on. It was like when we were young, we need to establish credit, so we apply for a credit card, but get denied because we have no credit. But now, we have credit, some more than others, but you get the point. Need experience to get a job, but need a job to get experience. If anything, this is a lot better answer than what you got, lol, but you already know all this. It’s better than me saying Forrest Fenn letter value is 22.:)

          • And no, you cannot put an “=” between the two. The importance of the first clue and having the first clue nailed down can be two entirely different things. Especially if you cannot know you have the first clue until you have the chest, and, if you knew where HoB is, why worry about WWWH, or the only important clue is the last one. “=” sign will not do it, so that thought did not come from a deep thinking treasure searcher using logic.:) (smiley face to keep from stepping on anyone’s feelings) :), and yet another…

      • I don’t know that we can make both of those statements true and correct. My best guess is that FF said these things a different times and had different mind sets about the finders process when he made the statements.

        After hearing from different searchers and reading blogs I wouldn’t be surprised if has changed his mind a few times over the years about how he thinks the treasure will be found.

  60. There isn’t a Searchers Discussion titled
    “Canyon Down”
    On that subject there is a story on page 62 that describes how FF and Donnie went down a canyon that got more and more narrow and swift. It is my opinion that this story hints about the canyon down.
    “Gradually, that little stream got narrower and narrower and deeper and deeper until it developed vertical sides that nothing could get through but water. I think that Donnie was getting delirious because he kept saying,
    “If we don’t change course soon we’ll end up where we’re going.”

    The end must have been ever drawing nigh.
    There is a canyon in Colorado that is similar to that. I usually give the GPS, but due to an agreement I made with another searcher I can’t tell unless he releases me from that sacred oath. It isn’t his canyon or the other one. But, it is nearby. May I?

    • Which one? There are many that fit that simple description. The one below HOB I reckon! 😉

      • It’s a slot canyon that I thought would be a good example that would be similar to the canyon in the story. But for some reason I couldn’t find the precise location today. So, never mind.

  61. If you have TTOTC, wonder this.

    I recently ordered a Lewis & Clark book for myself, and also, THE CAPTAINS DOG by R. Smith as a Christmas gift for a grandson (10). Naturally, I began reading his book first, its a quick and fun read. Dogs don’t use adjectives much. The story takes place at a trading post where Merriweathers old dog, Seaman, lives. Two mates from the Discovery arrive and reunite with Seaman. An old Indian woman brings in a little red book with a clasp to trade, but first she wants to know what it says. It’s Merriwether’s private journal, a mate reads it aloud in the evening by the fire and all listen.

    Each chapter starts with a short passage from the journal. followed by Seaman’s inner-monolog of his memory of the day.

    June 13, 1805, Great joy, Merriweather and his small desperate advance party find the Great Falls. (Here some pages are torn out and missing from the journal) Seaman remembers that his master wept with relief and joy, and made sketches in his journal of the falls and the rainbow that arched across that “grand crack in the prairie. Later those pages were used to start the fire that cold night.

    A little Christmas gift?

  62. Mr. Fenn said we should read the book slowly. I’ve found that by reading the book backward, I pay more attention to each page.

    • James Perotti
      Clever like The Backwards Brain Bicycle:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0&feature=share

      Clever like T.S. Elliot:

      “We shall not cease from exploration
      And the end of all our exploring
      Will be to arrive at where we started
      And know the place for the first time.”

      You didn’t say how you read the book backward. I’m cofounded and clueless enough just reading it forward so give only tarry scant imagining what reading it backward word-by-word would do for or to me.

      Chase well…Stay safe…

    • Bob, I tried looking at it from different views, including ground level, and it looks like rock ledges (formation) with shadows cast by the direction of the sun. This is my guess as to what I see.

        • Thank you, pdenver. I would have never guessed it was the bat cave. Cool. There is one near San Antonio as well but doesn’t look like this one.

      • Pdenver, thanks for you thoughts. It just caught m attention because it looked a little peculiar at 50 feet and I found it while searching for pinion pines in Colorado

        • Bob…very funny that you are searching using GE at 50 feet for “Pinyon Pines” in Colorado right next to the Valley View (naturist) hot springs LOL. My dad did his geological field work for his master’s degree in that area. Very interesting geology.

    • Tailings ponds ??? Looks like it is man-made. Could be tailings from a mine, that then collected water and algae over time.

      Big one looks like a bear, and the small one looks like a bird-of-prey Just Funnin’ JDA

      • WOW – Looking in 3D – and looking around the area, there are a couple more – One VERY deep. Sink holes of some kind. The “water” in the BIG one doesn’t look like water – “Deep shadows” fits better than water – HUMMM? Belly Belly Interesting!! JDA

    • Bob,
      When you drive down I 70 from Rifle to Grand Junction, there are what looks like strips of coal sandwiched between the layers of rock. To me the smaller depression looks like that and the larger ones look they did more excavation and pulled the coal out for removal. Just my quess. I think outside the box…

  63. “If I get another disease, on my last dying gasp, I’m going to throw myself on top of that treasure chest. And I’m going to dare you to come find me.” f

    Why not lay down, curl on top of, etc., you get my drift.

    Why THROW?

    Pinatubocharlie

    • The same reason some people say they are going to “jump in the shower for a minute”. They could just as,easily stand and take a shower, rather than jump while they’really doing it. But to each his/her own.

      • “Every word is deliberate”. f

        And IMO that is NOT exclusive to the poem.

        “Think” about it.

        Pinatubocharlie

        • I’ll think about it after I run to the store real quick and come back. I know I should use my car instead but I could use the exercise.

          • Sparrow,

            I get the figure of speech thing, but in this case I believe you are mistaken and will leave it at that, except to say, my challenge is to understand how it fits into the poem.

            Pinatubocharlie

  64. Question to those who have gone actual 3-D searching.
    If, I have a GPS app on my phone, will it work in the Rocky Mountains?
    Yes, Clearly Clueless, is clearly a good name for me….

    • CC,
      Yes, the GPS on the phone/tablet works fine as long as you can acquire the satellites. What doesn’t work is the ability to download background maps on-the-fly if you have no cell service. Most apps allow you to download background maps beforehand for the area you will be visiting.

      • Sourdough, thanks so much for the information. I was hoping that was the the correct answer.
        Happy hunting to you.
        CC

  65. Out of all the magazines that Forrest could have written about, he mentions Time magazine. Is this a hint to something that faithfully goes off on time in the Rockies? Of course it could just be a coincidence.

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