Starting at Agua Fria…….

SUBMITTED APRIL 2017
by HUMBLEPI

 

Here is my solution to the poem:

Agua Fria (near Santa Fe) to Agua Fria (near Angel Fire).

Down through Cimarron Canyon.  Near Angel Fire is not far, but near Santa Fe is too far too walk (more than 92 mi.)

Put into Cimarron Canyon below Eagle’s Nest (home) in (of) Moreno (Brown) Valley.  And before you start beating me over the head with the oh that’s not Brown, it is one of the definitions, and per SB 179 Fenn doesn’t care if he uses a word wrong so long as the reader gets his point.

From there head up to Raton Pass (no place for the meek).

Climax (the end) is drawing nigh on the approach. (you can see my comments on SB 166 for a ton of hints re: this area which I was previously focused on as the location of the chest).

I sent Forrest this photo thinking I was on to something, because the star of Bethlehem (wisemen) sits on top of the hill pictured.  His next scrapbook ended with the line “The secret is not to get too excited about the little things.  One of the pictures was a smashed church bell.

Head up Raton Creek.

Morley mine at mile marker 3 (heavy loads).  St Aloysius Church bell tower is the only thing left standing in the demolished town and I see Scrapbook 172 as hinting towards this.  The doorway (portal) faces east and is a dichotomy with the rubble of the town surrounding it.  This bell tower sits approximately 9 miles (the distance Forrest’s bell can be heard) from the Climax Canyon.  It was also coincidentally built in 1917 exactly 100 years ago.

Up near Fisher’s Peak there is a Bell Tank and a Bell Spring. (Water High) SB 172 had 2 pictures of bells and 173 used bells jingled.  These are roughly east of the Gallinas (Chickens? SB 175) exit in the Raton Pass.

East from the bells, across the mountain is a giant natural amphitheater (so hear me all and listen good).

Anyone noticed the common theme of many of the recent SBs involving the army going out of their way to punish the Indians?  What about the sudden theme of the pioneers?  Well, follow this link to read about Kit Carson leading some soldiers down into the amphitheater after some Apaches.  It may shed some light on F’s post about his really great hat.

This kind of obscure place is exactly the kind of place F seeks out to hunt for his treasures.  This place is surrounded by private property and the kind of out of the way place that nobody would readily stumble upon.  It is part of the James Johns (Jimmy Johns? Bring a sandwich?) State Wildlife Area of Colorado, which by definition is also a “chase.”

To get there you have to be in New Mexico and walk from Lake Dorothey (I recall a few things being tied to the Wizard of Oz… Glinda, a photo of a “now leaving Kansas” sign I think?)  This reminded me of the lumberjack illustration.

If you reach the end of Fisher’s Peak Mesa where you head down into the bowl, you are greeted with a magnificent view.  Lake Trinidad lines up perfectly in the little gulley of the ridge that connects the upper part of the mesa to Fisher’s Peak.  In the background, you can see the Spanish Peaks and the rest of the mountainous skyline behind.  It reminded me of all those landscape paintings by Sloane and others Forrest has shared only ten thousand times better. Down below, the amphitheater looks like a giant bowl.  It felt like sitting at the top of the Coliseum.  I sat there for an hour in awe (tarry scant with marvel gaze) before I looked around a bit.

From the east of where I took that photo (the photo does not do this view justice at all), a few hundred feet, is a secret waterfall that was roaring from the melting snow. The water sheeted down through a mountain of snow and disappeared. I thought I would get a good picture of it when I climbed down but because this gorge is on the north side, the snow was waist deep and the terrain was so steep I couldn’t for the life of me get back up near the waterfall.

I followed the creek down slowly toward Second Spring on Gray Creek keeping a wary eye for something that might let me know someone had secreted a can of Dr. Pepper in the stream, but the snow was still working against me.  I found a dry hill a little way up from the spring and camped out for the night.  In the morning, I went down to second spring thinking some of his hints pointed that way and for a brief moment I got excited when I thought I saw a bell sitting in the snow.  It turned out to be the remains of a tea kettle.  I moved it onto a pointy boulder approximately 2’ in a direction away from the spring.  On the ride home, it occurred to me that maybe that’s what Tea with Olga meant in the valley down below the mountain.

I wish I hadn’t been so overly eager and gone in May like I had originally planned, maybe the snow would be gone and I could search the waterfall and the creek more thoroughly.  As it was, I had to trespass North to Trinidad to escape the mountain.

FYI, the hike is not for the faint of heart it took most of the day the second trip (bedroll?).  My first attempt was so insane it will likely become a book.  I believe F may have used a horse to get there.  Many of the latest SB mention horses, and that could be why he refused to answer the question about using any other form of transportation.  It was definitely an awe-inspiring place and to me has all of the qualities he would look for in his special place.  These peaks are part of the Raton Mesa formation which also contain the Folsom Archaeological site.

Fisher’s peak by name would seem like the kind of place a searcher would go and come close to the chest but have no logical reason for being there.  Plus, his family passed through Raton Pass on the way to Yellowstone; these mountains would be the closest Rockies for that Texas Redneck with no job and whole lot of kids.

Just for I plotted the points out like a flight plan from Santa Fe Municipal Airport (in Agua Fria) to the waterfall and they seem to line up.  As you can see from the photo the first clue gets you more than half way to the treasure.

Hopefully someone else gets a chance to get up there when the snow melts the rest of the way and do a thorough search.  Maybe you will be the one to get out there and find it, but even if you don’t, I can assure you it will be well worth the trip.

One last thing… I know that F said no special knowledge was required.  All of these things could be solved as clues without having any special knowledge, but that doesn’t mean special knowledge won’t make you more successful.  The key word is required. Two hands aren’t required to be a drummer, ask that guy from Def Leppard; but that doesn’t mean you tie one behind your back.

Here is a picture of the range I took from the back of a pickup as I hitched a ride back to Sugarite.  You can see my consolation prize (elk shed) I carried from the mountain north into Trinidad.

 

HumblePi-

 

A Fun, Safe Side Trip….

SUBMITTED APRIL 2017
by dodo bird

 

On my trip to search for Forrest Fenn’s treasure at Yellowstone Park, I decided to take a break and visit the Buffalo Bill Historical Center in Cody, Wyoming. It’s no secret that Forrest was on the board of directors there and has donated items from his personal collection. And I just really like museums. The Buffalo Bill Center contains five museums and for just an 18$ admission you can come back the next day. Seeing how people used to live makes me appreciate how easy our lives are now.

I left Yellowstone through the east entrance. On the way to Cody i stopped at the Buffalo Bill Reservoir. There, I found on display remnants of the old dam workings. I thought this huge wooden clad concrete ball was interesting.

It was lowered into the water to plug a pipe that carried runoff water to discharge below the dam. the huge ball was bigger than the pipe to act like a stopper. it wouldn’t fit through the pipe.

Arriving at the Buffalo Bill Historical Center, I first toured the Draper Museum of Natural History. The Byrd Naturalist cabin is at the beginning.

I met and talked to Mike Brown,who is head of security.
The Draper is set up like a spiral ramp at a parking garage. You start out at the 10,000 foot level of elevation and descend to 4,500 feet always turning left.

The Draper houses the sights, sounds and smells of Yellowstone. caution small children not to be afraid. The floor of the Draper is carpeted and smooth so footing is no problem. It’s an easy hike,all downhill. At an archaeology exhibit i took this photo.

There are touch screen quizzes for the kids to test their knowledge of the outdoors.

So hear me all and listen good!

Four more museums to go!

by Dodo Bird-

Home of Brown…

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This is for a discussion about “the home of Brown” in Forrest’s poem.

Got an HOB that didn’t work out…or maybe you need an HOB for a certain area…or perhaps you have an idea that needs some fleshing out..

This is the place to discuss all things HOB…

dal…

Nine Facts….

SUBMITTED MARCH 2017
by WHUT

 

  1. In Mogollon, New Mexico, there is a church named Mt. Carmel.  (Home of Brown)

  1. The road past the church (from there) is  Hwy 159 known as Bursum Rd—universally described as no place for the meek.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/gila/news-events/?cid=STELPRDB5418844

  1. As you enter Mogollon, on the left there is a drawing of a clock stopped at 4:00, the end of the last shift at the last operating mine in Mogollon, painted by the miners in the 1940s.   (End is ever drawing nigh)  

  1. Silver Creek run through Mogollon and into Deadwood Gulch.  Usually runs ankle deep.  (No paddle)
  1. The Confidence Mine just outside the town produced heavy loads that required up to 40-horse teams to just lower the ore down the mountain.   The mine is the reason there is a “water high”.  A pipeline (called “The Catwalk”) was built in Whitewater Canyon for the purpose of bringing water to the mine.   More on this later.
  2. The Catwalk carried water overhead as high as 20’ above Whitewater canyon’s floor.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fse_010087.pdf

  1. The Little Fanny Mine left tailings of brilliant white cascading down in a classic blaze pattern.  It flowed down into Deadwood Gulch.   It is easy to spot on Google or Mapcarta maps.

  1. There is a blackish flat rock formation opposite the mine tailings on the Deadwood Gulch cliff.  The powdery quartz tailings coat everything in a marble glazeThis is not a great photo, but it sits in stark contrast to the brown on each side, especially in shadow.    (Tarry scant with marvel gaze/marble  glaze)

  1. There are several wood piles between the tailings and the blackish cliff.  One looked manmade, with many sticks of nearly equal length (2’-3’) stacked vertically.  I was certain a snake, rodent or something worse would be underneath and would attach me as I pulled the sticks out.  I needed to remind myself to be brave.  (Brave and in the wood) 

I saved WWWH and Canyon down for last so I could give a more detailed explanation.  The clues begin and end with the Catwalk.

It’s now a park, but back when the Confidence Mine was operating it needed water to process the ore.  The Whitewater Creek wasn’t a reliable source that far down the canyon, so an engineer named Graham built a pipeline from up above that carried a constant flow of water to the processing plant.  The pipeline attached to the canyon walls some 20 feet above the floor and it was dubbed “The Catwalk” because miners would have to walk it like a tightrope high in the air to make repairs.  (BTW, the water source  where the pipeline begins qualifies as “warm water” and has brown trout).  So the Catwalk started where the warm water halted and took it in the canyon down.

The distance between the Catwalk and Mogollon is only 2 or 3 miles, but it’s so steep and rocky it would be unwalkable.   That distance is as the crow flies—to drive it is about 12 miles.

Go to Google Map and mark the waypoints for the clues listed above.  Or a better map for this is Mapcarta.com.

  • Catwalk Recreation Park.
  • Mogollon, New Mexico, then zoom in.  The church is on the far right of the town on higher ground.  There is a parking area below the church for visitors to walk the town.
  • The clock drawing is on the left rock wall where Deadwood Gulch begins.
  • Silver creek flows through the town and down Deadwood Gulch.
  • Confidence Mine is just across the road North from the Catwalk.  It is most easily found using Mapcarta.com.
  • The blaze is in the middle of the points just marked and easy to spot.   (searchers get the first clues right, then go right past….)
  • The tarry scant can’t been seen on an aerial map.  You can see, however, see a large tombstone-like rock which is 40 feet tall directly below the mine tailings.  That is nearby.

An alternative that requires an IMO is:  Forrest’s unusual use of a missing “D” in knowledge and his several references to tea make me wonder if he wants us to change “down” to “town”—as in reference to the canyon town of Mogollon.

Either way, the waypoints bracket The Catwalk, The Confidence Mine, Mogollon and the blaze.

Spare me the “but Forrest said….” stuff.  I’ve studied everything Forrest has said, and I have responses to the “north of Santa Fe” quotes.  He said north for a reason, and he said many other things that should have alerted searchers.  In this thread I’m giving you facts, and if you don’t want to use them it’s okay with me.

Now some IMO.  Let’s look at the “map” on page 99 of the book.

  Notice:

  • The outline of a cat (circled in red.)  If you look at Google map you can see a similar pattern on Bursum Road  (Look for the “ears”.)   This is where the Catwalk is.  It should be easily found on both the Google and Mapcarta maps.
  • The ladders (circled in yellow) on a map not drawn to scale are where the Gila Cliff Dwellings are.
  • The mountain peak and the blaze (circled in black).  See the very same outline of the picture of Fanny Hill above and the tailings.

  • Notice the arrow going down the right side of the tailings into Deadwood Gulch.
  • The “X”s of the bombs tailfins mark the Confidence Mine and Cooney’s grave on a map not drawn to scale.
  • The “river” resembles Bursum Road as it winds to Mogollon.
  • There is a county airport between the Catwalk and Mogollon

  • .  The residence at the airport has an old sedan

  • Wonder if Forrest borrowed it?

Another interesting tidbit:  At this spot a tunnel directs the creek through the cliff for about 40 yards.  If the water isn’t running too high, you can walk through it—but take a flashlight.

From the town, the spot is an easy, almost level half-mile walk from the road.  It’s easiest to just walk the creek, but don’t worry—your effort will be worth the cold.

As a final resting place—there is a beautiful spot on top of a huge boulder looking down the gulch above the stream.  I totally get it.

https://goo.gl/photos/9CYi69mQYxHpuw6F9

To wrap this up—three comments:  First, I have been there and didn’t find the TC.  Second, Why would I give up my solve?  A couple of days ago I was diagnosed with pulmonary fibrosis, and I won’t be able to go again.  My friends and family think I’m insane for thinking there’s a treasure out there somewhere, so no one to pass the secret to.  I know you out there are as involved as I have been with this.

The third is the best:  I’ve done maybe a thousand or more hours of research.  I’ve learned things that are a part of vanishing history:  warm water Apaches, the suspected birthplace of Geronimo, and hideouts temporarily for Butch Cassidy and Billy the Kid.  The mining lore of New Mexico ghost towns is fastinating. The Confidence Mine payroll wagon was robbed 21 times by the same guy before they caught and hanged him on the 22 attempt.  I even came across an account of a mine boss overhearing an Apache cook and Chinese laborer talking-to each other, each using their native dialect (Apache and Tartar Chinese).  The languages were nearly identical! and they had no problem understanding each other.   Mind boggling.  I’ve seen cougars, herds of elk, grey wolf tracks and listened to coyotes howl as I camped under a dark sky that makes the stars twice as bright.   I’m richer for searching, and I hope the unemployed redneck will come and find it.

Links

Mogollon

http://www.ghosttowns.com/states/nm/mogollon.html

http://www.mogollonenterprises.com/

P.S.  Be Aware!  The only road to Mogollon is CLOSED for repair.  Not just kind of closed where you can drive around barriers—it is completely gutted and you will not be able to drive into there.  The few locals that live there have a deal with the construction company that requires the company to move their heavy equipment to allow the locals to pass.  They will not do that for visitors.  I have explored all the other possible accesses to the blaze.  There are none.  The terrain is rocky and there are vertical drops of 200 feet in the canyon.    The very best hikers would need several days and mountain climbing skills to make the trip even though the distance is short.  The elevation changes are staggering.  Also, there is private property there.  The locals are their own law enforcement, so check property maps before you plan a hike.

Read up on Catron County, New Mexico.  It is a unique place, the size of Delaware but the largest town (county seat) has a population of 143.  Past a law prohibiting the US Government from taking property from individuals. Hmmm.

by WHUT-

Poetry Page XII…

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The chase certainly has inspired some great poetry…

Here is page ix for poetry about the chase, Forrest or any other Thrill of the Chase related topic. I am hoping poets will create new poetry and place it on this page.

If you would like to peruse the  verse on the first page of poetry click HERE.

Second page is HERE

Third page is HERE

Fourth page is HERE

Fifth Page is HERE

Sixth Page is HERE

Seventh Page is HERE

Eighth Page is HERE

Ninth Page is HERE

Tenth Page is HERE

Eleventh Page is HERE

Thanks

dal…

Odds n Ends About Fenn’s Treasure Hunt…

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Please click on the comment balloon below to contribute to the discussion of  Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Hunt. Please note that many topics have their own pages. Please scroll through the blog to see all the discussion pages. There are also stories, scrapbooks, searcher’s reports general information, tips from Forrest, a rumors blog and even email responses from Forrest. So please look around and if you want to make a comment please use the most appropriate page.

Thanks…

 

dal…

Forrest Gets Mail – 16

Dear Mr. Fenn,

I have an 11 year old son named River. Last year sometime he said to me, “I wish there were still treasures left to find”. I found this to be a telling part of his personality. He wasn’t taking about money. He was talking about the adventure, the purpose, something bigger than himself. I agreed with him. I always wished I were Indiana Jones when I was little and that there were still mysteries to solve and adventures to be had, by normal people. That you didn’t have to be someone special or have special education to be able to go do this amazing thing. I had never heard of your treasure until today and I’ve spent all morning reading about it.

Here is River, age two, teaching my brother to fly

I’m home schooling my son this next year and your poem just became part of his curriculum. I believe this treasure is out there, but for me in just excited to have something for my mind to ruminate over. How fun. I don’t know about you or your life, but now I want my son and I to read your book together- to show him there are still treasures to be found and adventures to be had. Thank you for the chance you’ve given so many people for that. Is it true you can figure all of this out remotely by looking on a map?? I wish I were more familiar with the terrain as I was born and raised in Alaska 🙂

Anyhow, I hope this finds you in good health. I hope reading of others odyssey’s has brought you as much satisfaction as searching for it has brought them.

I plan on studying your puzzle. Feel free to update me on any new clues haha! Maybe someday we will go rescue your box from its watery grave. Until then, thanks again for the adventure.

Roxanne

 

 

Redemption….

SUBMITTED MARCH 2017
by DIGGIN GYPSY

 

On one of last year’s searches I brought along a small tribe of my family to help search.

My right hand little man was my grandson Dylan.

I thought I had found the “blaze of all blazes” on a previous trip which cast a great shadow over the Madison River and we all came to the blaze to check it out.

This was my “blaze” and this is it’s story.

On an earlier winter trip near here I was walking and fell on a 3 foot snow drift. As I lay there struggling to get out I looked over and I was like “Dang that rock has a face and looks  to be wearing a long smock.”    The Virgin Mary?

Later on, after I was home I kept thinking of that lady rock and it reminded me of something I saw in the book on page 99, the walking man carrying what looks like the Virgin Mary. If you flip the picture on it’s side, the man is an eagle.

So you have a man/eagle and Virgin Mary.  That mountain rock I saw looked exactly like that. Many items in the book started clicking for me with lady or Virgin Mary. The ole coot drew the L on all the little ladies shirts.  Miss Ford is a virgin who he talks about way too much 😜.

Skippy in the graduation smock. Peggy in her wedding gown.  The picture of the girl with a vail.  The crescent moon and dove, both symbols of the Virgin Mary. Forrest holding an ax (Jesus was a carpenter).

I know what some of you will say: “The ole coot ain’t religious.” Awww, but he is spiritual. I took these pictures in his garage and there it was Our Lady of Guadalupe hanging with all his favorite things.

He has several old religious relics. Some of them are on his scrapbooks. Some have to do with the Virgin Mary.  Indulgence, hmmmm something he is offering as a redemption for all his sins so he can sit at the great banquet table with all his friends.

So where better to put that sacrifice than at the feet of the “Virgin Mary Rock”? 💰
if you zoom in on the rock you will see Mary gazing down… “gaze and marvel”, two words that are used a lot referring to Our Lady of Guadalupe or the Virgin Mary, ohhh or Miss Ford.

In the map with the frog there is a ghost woman in the middle of it.  I figure that it has to mean Ghost Village on the Madison, which is right where the “Virgin Mary Rock” hovers with an eagle at her side. Which is right next to the high mountain that reminds me of church steeples.

Also on the gold coin in that photo is Jesus. He has a thorn crown on his head.

and there is a ghost woman with big eyes and her mouth open.

He seems to write often about women who know how to stand on their own two feet and who are inventive.  Heck, he just loves women.

Mary was the ultimate woman.   A lot of his scrapbooks are about women.

He mentions Sacajawea. She was referred to by others as Mary. Queen Elizabeth I of England was known as the Virgin Queen.

A lot of clasping of the hands in the book too.  His little sister and him a few times. He who teaches a child labors in Gods workshop. Joseph taught jesus to be a carpenter and there is a picture of a carpenter at Peggy’s feet. Beavers are carpenters. So he must have been alluding to Beaver Creek hahahe.

He likes to sit in a graveyard ghost village.

Forrest says there are three dimensional figures on the chest. I believe they could represent his three favorite women. He wrote “no saint could match her faith”, but actually the Virgin Mary did match her faith 😜. The Candy Ann team saved his life same as Mary did for mankind by obeying God and doing just.

So there is my solve. There are many more references to ladies and the Virgin Mary, I could go on and on.

As my family explored the area we crossed the river and left no stone or log unturned. Following the Madison we soon realized the water is so swift in there that we didn’t think he could possibly carry forty pounds across. It’s just to dangerous…not just for Forrest but also for anyone trying to follow in his footsteps. Clearly, my solve was a bust.

Before we left the Madison, Alvin came to tell us bye. He thought we were all quite the show.

Just as we are leaving the dam area we see a moose being born…what are the odds on that?

That was an incredibly memorable moment for Dylan. We’ve made many trips to this area and have always come back home without the cheat, but we never leave Montana depressed.  Every moment being in the mountains is better than any amount of money.

Now back with my nose to the grinding stone.

Diggin Gypsy-

 

Winter Thoughts….

SUBMITTED MARCH 2017
by Tom Terrific

 

“A dream doesn’t become reality through magic; it takes sweat, determination and hard work.”
-Colin Powell

“Hope lies in dreams, in imagination, and in the courage of those who dare to make dreams into reality.”
-Jonas Salk

“Reality is wrong. Dreams are for real.”
-Tupac Shakur

“Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.”
-Albert Einstein

Forrest Fenn a retired Major USAF, noted art dealer and antiquities expert hid a bronze treasure chest somewhere in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe, NM. Forrest said he hid the chest when he was 79 or 80. So 2010 is my opinion of the date and probably on his birthday since he turned 80 on August 22nd of that year.

I was born in New Mexico and live in northern New Mexico spent most (except Navy during Vietnam) of my 70 years collecting anthropologic artifacts, fishing, hunting, exploring, Kayaking, rafting, backpacking etc. I am well versed in local Native American Lore, understand and speak Spanish at an acceptable level, also have a CDIB card and I am a tribal member of the Muskogee Creek Nation.

What I have compiled here is a reading and opinion of the treasure map poem of Forrest Fenn AKA (also known as) “ff” or “f” and how the local and indigenous people view his words and their meanings.

In his map written in poetic form, I will make an effort here to back up my opinions with the corresponding statements where ff and others are concerned, some of these statements were not written down, but I have witnesses to verify they were said, starting in 2010 through today.

ff has said there are 9 clues in the poem, per page 132 “Thrill of the Chase” AKA TTOTC, furthermore he said on page 133 there are “hints” sprinkled in the TTOTC Book. But in my opinion he has never mentioned that there’s  not only 9 clues inside the poem, but  there are almost certainly HINT’S in his poem as well, although to my knowledge he has never said that.* If the poem is in fact a map (pathway) to the Treasure then like most maps it could (should) have a key or legend to be understood. On the “Mysterious Writings’ blog on Feb 04, 2014 under “Six Questions Jenny Kile quoted  ff   “It is interesting to know that a great number of people are out there searching. Many are giving serious thought to the clues in my poem, but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key.  The treasure may be discovered sooner than I anticipated”.  Also stated this quote to Jenny Kile:  August 15, 2015 * “It seems logical to me that a deep thinking treasure searcher could use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure. Is someone doing that now and I don’t know it? It’s not what they say on the blogs that may be significant, it’s what they whisper. f.”  Did you ever think how often giving your kids a “hint”  is like that, a whisper, sometimes it speaks louder than telling them the answer they need to choose?

Often a map’s key or legend is at the beginning so one doesn’t get lost in the details, that is IMO our case here,  hints and clues that described the translation of poetry into geographical places, rarely, if ever has that process been done. Looking in the first stanza we even see him use the word HINT, it should become apparent to you that knowing the difference between a clue and a hint is valuable.

The first 4 lines set up a hint of what the “Hidey Spot” is or may look like because it starts with the word AS, as he may have gone there with someone else in the past, I believe that someone was his father.

Background for that statement comes from this experience of the 2 leaders and members of www.nmtreasure.com.:  In November of 2013 an Emmy Award winning film crew called www.moonshots productions.com were hired by “Animal Planet Network” to film a pilot series of reality actors for a possible long term production based on Treasure Hunting. My brother and I were selected along with 3 other members of our group, a young couple who were already actors and my wife who is also a native New Mexican. Eric Hartman ehartman@moonshot-productions.com  and his assistant Dave, film crew were all part of the www.moomshots.com  who interviewed Forrest in November, 2013, Forrest told them “His father would know where he hid the treasure.”  Eric and Dave told us what ff had said to them on that following November day in 2013 just prior to our filming.

Moonshot’s passed this info out but not many people seem to know about it, this may have happened because ff would not sign a contract as an actor with them for “Animal Planet Pilot Series” this lack of approval by ff may have caused a problem for more filming. Everyone in our group signed contracts before they filmed us, there was about 11 hours of video made of us cracking jokes, speculation of the meaning of the clues and hints, and just capturing the beauty of Northern NM. My wife who has a great voice even sang the State Song,” O Fair New Mexico”. We all thought this would be a regular feature on Animal Planet.

Primarily we took the film crew along the Rio Grande Gorge and into Taos and the Angel Fire area near the Vietnam Veterans Memorial and the Moreno (Brown) Valley at The Black Lake.

Because Forrest had said to the film crew that “His father would know where he hid the treasure chest” AKA (TC) We started to examine that statement with a magnifying focus on what this “allegedly” privileged info meant.  Since this info was never shared with the public we read a lot about what ff had said about his father, ff said according to Taylor Clark of California Sunday Magazine 07/15/15  “I thought I was gonna die,” Fenn explained recently in his feathery Texas drawl. “I kept asking the guy who gave me radiation what my chances were, and all he would say was, ‘Mr. Fenn, you’ve just got an uphill battle.’” Two years earlier, Fenn’s father had also been diagnosed with advanced cancer, and he had taken what Fenn saw as the dignified way out: a handful of sleeping pills. Facing that fate with terminal cancer 1987-1988 ff somehow survived and recovered. His suicide pact was similar to his fathers, except the place would be in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe, NM at the same place where the TC is hidden now.”

Suddenly a set of very large gears began to click and moved heavy loads in my mind, these gears were as big as a Steam Locomotive’s Transmission, knowing In fact Forrest father, William Marvin Fenn had told Forrest this; “Grab every banana,” his father used to say while they were out on hunts together, baffling his son.
One day ff’s father elaborated: “He said, son, the train doesn’t go by that banana tree but one time, so you reach as far out as you can, because every banana you don’t grab is a banana you’ll never have.” This, according to Newsweek Magazine writer BRENT HUMPHREY. ff admits he never understood exactly what that meant, but perhaps he does now. I think you get where I am going with this if you are studying ff and his memoirs. On page 42 of the “TTOTC” ff said “The Katy Rail Road tracks were about half-mile from our house and late at night I could hear the steam engines puff and the engineers blow their air horns. It was a soothing sound and sometimes I think I can still hear when the wind is out of the east.” From an early age Steam Trains in my opinion were fascinating to ff, pulling heavy loads and filled by water (towers) high.

 Admittedly ff has worn many hats in life, one of the earliest was fishing guide as told in “Thrill of the Chase, page 124, he, along with his father and brother all worked at a trout fly fishing store tying flies and fish guiding for pay. ff naturally became aware of how to catch trout and because of that experience  he would certainly know of each state’s fishing regulations, which were published (Game and Fish Proclamation) each year in the 4 possible TC states; Mt, Wy, Co and NM.

We now come to what I and many searchers think is probably the 1st Clue in the poem, but remember we have already received in the first stanza what is IMO “hints” the words “AS, HINT, BOLD, NEW and OLD.”  What may be the 1st (actual) “CLUE” after those “hints” may be “Begin it where warm waters halt” from line 1 of the second stanza (WWWH). Since I too have fished since childhood in New Mexico, and Colorado, there is only one place where I have ever in my 70 years heard those exact words “WWWH”, and that is in the New Mexico Game and Fish Proclamation, which stated for many years on the various rivers or mountainous streams at a certain spot: www (regulations) halt and (then) cold water regulations begin.

Next is the descriptor and IMO possible 2nd clue, second stanza line #2 “take it in the canyon down” only one definition of canyon exists and only one commonly used for down, and the Rio Grande to my knowledge is the only major river that goes South (down) out of the Rockies, it starts near Telluride, Co and travels east toward Alamosa, Co then almost due south to the warm waters of the Gulf of Mexico at Brownsville, Tx along the Old Mexico border a distance of 1885 miles.

According to NM Game and Fish at one time 1950’s through 1990’s
Where Warm Water Regulations Halted” on the Rio Grande was at the bridge in Embudo (funnel)NM  near the old Denver and Rio Grande Rail Road Station. The Rio Grande is AKA also know as: RIO BRAVO (brave river) in Old Mexico.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embudo,New_Mexico

you are now at that point near the bottom of the Rio Grande Gorge just over 5,800 feet. Since we think we got wwwh and canyon down, our opinion was to consider the next line as a hint, the jury is still out, but the line “Not far, but too far to walk” seems simple enough to us at www.nmtreasure.com, you either drive from there at Embudo, or you take the “Train” after all it is too far to walk.

Possible 3rd clue from line 4 of poem, second stanza says If you “Put in below the home of Brown,”  yes the Rio from the Embudo northward is a world famous producer of monster size BROWN TROUT, regulations change and fishing for Browns from there is rouged, treacherous and almost impassible, possible matching our next line and perhaps 4th clue, line 1 stanza three says “From there it’s no place for the meek” the poem does not “insist” (from there) that we go there, just that it is simply scary, just examine it on Google Earth, it is hard to imagine a rougher terrain to walk so let’s ride the train and when it stops we will grab every banana.

“The end is ever drawing nigh” possibly 5th clue, line 2 third stanza, so if we had put into the Rio Grande at Embudo and traveled up no place for the meek (gorge) (canyon) to its end, near Telluride, Co we would have to make a turn to the left, or “nigh” at Alamosa, Co and why did this clue include the word Drawing? DR is the initials of the Denver and Rio Grande RR which splits at Embudo, NM and up the tracts you could either travel to Chama, NM or Antonito, Co.  Both are 90 miles away from the city or limits of Santa Fe, NM. So Why 90 miles see answer below.* Also there are only two places where this Denver and Rio Grande Rail Road still has passenger travel one is rebadged  the Cumbress and Toltec scenic RR and the other is Durango and Silverton

We shall concentrate on the Cumbress and Toltec because its tracks follow the course of the ‘Pinos (pine) river” all the way to Antonito Co. Near Manassa, Co where the Pinos (Pine) empties into the Rio Conejos, and the Conejos empties into Rio Grande at Alamosa, Co. Interestingly it is exactly 90 miles from inside Santa Fe city limits according to Google Earth to Chama, NM and Antonito, Co and most importantly 90 to the “Toltec Gorge.” 90 seems to be an important number, mentioned at least 3 times in TTOTC Book page 57 it was 90 feet of water in Cozumel Mexico that Skippy, ff’s brother tragically drowned in and was also how far ff had to fly Olga’s Ashes, see page 116 of TTOC but a careful study of the Thrill Book on page 51 you realize who is on that page, father and Skippy, then notice the postmark which is circled shows (only) the #141, oddly there are 19 postmarks in the TTOTC Book, but all the rest are on even # pages, ask yourself what the statistical odds of that being accidental hint, over a million to 1? Now what is the sum of 141 minus 51? 90 again!

Now what does the name “Toltec” suggest and the name “Cumbress”?  Perhaps important ideas may come to your mind once you know what these names are famous for; ff said he felt like an “Architect” after he constructed the poem, well in Old Mexico and throughout North America the ancient “Toltec’s” were the “greatest builders”, famous for their “ARCHIECTURE”, and “Construction” now the term “Cumbress” in Spanish means Summit, which is 10025’ at the highest point on these Rail Road Tracks. The lowest point on Denver and Rio Grande is a little over 5,000’ According to Google Earth.

Where have we heard those numbers before?  http://dalneitzel.com/cheat-sheet/  first line:  TC is located between 10,200 and 5,000 feet.

The next line and could be 6th clue which says “There’ll be no paddle up your creek” “Just heavy loads and water high”. These 2 lines from the third stanza are both part of this 6th clue in my opinion we no paddle, IMO too far to walk, so just ride the train which will go up “our wooden creek” with coal powered locomotives that use tall water towers to fill the locomotive boiler tanks, are you with me so far? If you look at the links I sent, you will see many of those water towers, and since those Rail Road Tracks were built in 1870’s thru 1890’s and carried commodities like copper, gold, silver, coal, lumber, and livestock etc.  Just what more proof do we need to infer “just heavy loads and water high.”

So now the next gear we have left to click is the “If you’ve been Wise and found the Blaze” IMO the blaze IS the Rail Road Tracks themselves I am sure it was blazing fast in the 1880’s and remember tracks are always face one way, UP! Our 7th possible clue. When asked on Mysterious Writings on April 29, 2016 “Mr. Fenn, Which direction does the Blaze face? North, South, East or West?  Foxy I didn’t take a radial off of the blaze Foxy. I’m thinking it may not be any of those directions. f”

The next shift IMO is the 8th  clue. “Look quickly down your quest cease” One of the most spectacular views along the Cumbress and Toltec Scenic RR  is called the “Toltec Gorge”, it is one of the deepest and most stunning gorge’s in the Rockies, it certainly will impress you to see it and view the Garfield Memorial Tunnel and Tombstone Memorial and Plaque which was erected in 1880 at the top of this sheer 600 ft cliff  right where the huge steam locomotive is balanced daily at the mouth of the tunnel, it’s  an absolute drop into the Rio De Los Pinos, See the sign below it reads: Passengers are requested not to throw any rocks into the gorge as fishermen are liable to be below. “”,  just  imagine that this could explain   “Look quickly down your quest to cease,”

9th and final clue may be “But tarry scant with marvel gaze, just take the chest and go in peace.” IMO this photo of the Toltec is a marvel gaze, I feel the TC is near. Also duplicating go in peace thought, IMO Memorials and Tombstones make peaceful places

If you have read ff’s chapter in TTOTC Book, “My war for me” when he describes the mysterious water fall and clearing that beckoned him to visit, the place where some of those brave French soldiers who died in the Indo China war in 1947 were buried, see in TTOTC page 91 he mentions arranging an army helicopter ride and visiting that clearing where the little stream dropped so mistfully onto the rocks below.  If you use Google Earth to follow the narrow gauge tracks into the Garfield Memorial tunnel you will understand just how you must travel through a similar environment, a small river with many waterfalls, falling like a mist far below with clearings and pristine fishing, you are near the border of Colorado and New Mexico, see sign, I took photo in June 2016 and the one immediately above on September 30th 2016 I was in standing on the RR tracks for both at the border, trivial fact this train which follows the Pinos River  loops back and forth from Co into NM 11 times on its journey.

From 1970 through the present day the Cumbress and Toltec Rail Road has been carrying passengers from Chama, Nm to Antonito, Co, and vice versa, from May thru October. Entrance to Garfield Memorial Tunnel has this huge granite tombstone  marker at the entrance, imagine how many souls could have been within 500 feet, if the TC was hidden in or near the tunnel this marker or RR tracks? If you are brave, even fool hardy you may walk through the tunnel.

 From 1970 through the present day the Cumbress and Toltec Rail Road has been carrying passengers from Chama, Nm to Antonito, Co, and vice versa, May thru October. Above tunnel has a huge granite tombstone memorial marker at the entrance, imagine how many souls could have been within 500 feet, if the TC was hidden in or near the tunnel? If you are brave, even fool hardy you may walk through the tunnel. See photo, if you stop in the middle of the Garfield Tunnel it’s exits (entrances) look like “Omega signs” one on each end < Ω tunnel Ω >.

See Rail Road Tracks on the right photo below, I was on top of the tunnel here, river below almost 1000’ drop from this vantage point.

Is it possible that Forrest and his father or other family members had ridden that Scenic Train? Perhaps even fished the Pines River 600 feet below? Is it also reasonable to think that Forrest almost certainly flew over or nearby the Toltec Gorge on his many trips into Montana, Wyoming, and Colorado? Use Google Earth to draw a straight line to Cody, Wy home of Buffalo Bill Museum, from Santa FE, NM. Do you still think it is out of the realm of possibilities? Target acquisition was what he did in Nam, now I propose he found Rocky Mountain Rivers to explore and fish, especially the ones close to home only 90 miles away from Santa Fe which he could easily journey to, fish and return home the same day.

Now I shall skip to the final stanzas and try to analyze the final “HINTS” IMO, not clues: Per TTOTC Forrest was 2 years older than his sister June and 2 years younger than brother Skippy, he was right in the middle, now the middle of Cumbress and Toltec RR is Osier Station, Co, it is 2.2 miles from Osier to Garfield memorial tunnel, on page 95 TTOTC Forrest was at that beautiful Waterfall and clearing in 1968 on December 22nd  and ff’s birthday is August 22nd , per Dal’s site, look at  page 110 of the “Thrill” Book it states that 20 students and 2 teachers filed into ff’s gallery? #22 was also the name of a very disturbing and enlightening book about pilots, their stress and their almost suicide missions:  “Catch 22”. Also #22 appears several other times in his TTOTC Book like the 22 turquoise beads on the bracelet he will buy back? But I digress; “So why is it that I must go” A line that reflects the feelings of the protagonist in Catch 22, and this line as well “And leave my trove for all to seek? The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak.” They seem like lines straight out of Catch 22, and speaking of pilot stress, how much weight did ff loose in his tour in Vietnam? 22lbs perhaps? Per page 131 TTOTC ff says 20 troy oz of gold was in the chest? The whole load was 42 lbs, so minus 20 lbs and Viola! There you have 22 Lbs for the TC itself, Folks, I do not make this stuff up!  If you still do not believe read on….

Forrest responds:
“I am a very simple person and you want me to have copious meetings with lawyers, preachers, undertakers and your family. What is wrong with me just riding my bike out there and throwing it in the “water high” when I am through with it? You don’t know how many man hours I have spent on that subject. Thanks for the input but I think you should mobilize your club and hit the trail searching for the wondrous treasure. Besides, I’ll probably get hit by a train. When you find the treasure please come sell me the great turquoise and silver bracelet that is in the chest. I wish now that I had kept it. f”
http://dalneitzel.com/2012/10/02/forrest-gets-mail/

Duh…Forrest say what? : “Besides, I’ll probably get hit by a train!”
IMO climb the water tower ladder and hide the bike inside so no one will ever find it! This man has thought of everything, or so he said.

Treasure Hunters, Can You Hear Me NOW???

If you are riding the train from either direction, it won’t stop and let you off at the Garfield Memorial Tunnel and it becomes very dark in there so you might wanta take a flashlight, now contemplate your navel or stomach because at Osier, Colorado 2.2 miles away, the train stops, passengers disembark at this, the halfway point and eat a sandwich? Just sayin, where have we heard that before and who said it..?

By car travel up Hwy 285 from Santa Fe, NM to Antonito, Co and take a left and go about 8 mi to a town called “Mogote”, Co, turn another left there and cross the Conejos River and head for Osier Station near Toltec Gorge on Farm rd 103. From Osier is 2.2 miles distance as as a crow flies to Garfield Memorial Tunnel, but over 3 if you follow the RR Tracks, it is pretty level and easy walk, the view is spectacular!  Ice out and snow melt is about first of June. Stay on the RR tracks, walk in the wood uh duh, unless you hear a train a commin!

Somewhere near there could be his secret where. The mystery of why, only Forrest knows but it is tantalizing to imagine that ff was in this place.
Tom Terrific, Terrific as in “Enthusiastic”