Nine Clues, Count Em…Nine…


I was reading Richard Saunier’s blog about searching for Forrest’s treasure. I noticed he had posted an article about the nine clues that Forrest has said are in his poem. The question Richard poses is what lines constitute the nine clues? I’ve had a similar conversation with friends and searchers about what nine parts of the poem Forrest counts as clues. It’s sort of like counting angels on the head of a pin I guess. I mean it’s an academic question more than a practical one. What does it matter if there are nine or five or fifteen clues…as long as you can identify them as clues and follow them to the treasure. But since Richard started this I figure I should jump in..Even though it looks to me like there are more than nine clues too…

So here goes:

The Thrill of the Chase
By Forrest Fenn
As I have gone alone in there
And with my treasures bold,
I can keep my secret where,
And hint of riches new and old.
CLUE #1 Begin it where warm waters halt
CLUE #2  And take it in the canyon down,
CLUE #3  Not far, but too far to walk.
CLUE #4  Put in below the home of Brown.
CLUE #5 From there it’s no place for the meek,
CLUE #6 The end is ever drawing nigh;
CLUE #7 There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
 CLUE #7a Just heavy loads and water high.
CLUE #8 If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
CLUE #9 Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
Just take the chest and go in peace.
So why is it that I must go
And leave my trove for all to seek?
The answers I already know,
I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak.
So hear me all and listen good,
CLUE #9a Your effort will be worth the cold.
CLUE #9b  If you are brave and in the wood
I give you title to the gold.

Thank you Forrest-


298 thoughts on “Nine Clues, Count Em…Nine…

  1. so maybe he added a few that aren’t true just to throw everyone off LOL Sorry, just painted my nails and I must have smelled the fumes when I got the update for your blog. That’s my 2 on to my toes and more fumes 🙂

    • Mrs. Stephanie,

      My name is Stephen. I have been emailing Dal some and he has encouraged me to get on the blogs and see if any are interested in my ideas about the treasures location, I have been reading and analyzing the poem for a few years now, but I have no one to share my ideas with cause no one is interested. I live in Tennessee and I am highly unlikely to ever go looking for the treasure, but I would love to help someone to find it. I always said that if I had a least 4-5 95% sure locations followed precisely, enough time in a year to take off for 2 weeks, and enough money to help me on journey, then and only then could it happen. I have about 3 – 4 ideas, but I need to share them with someone who is willing to listen. I can be emailed or could talk on the phone about these ideas if interested. Maybe you could connect me with others since it seems you have been on this longer than I have.



        • Thanks. I am new to this blogging, but not new to the poem. I hope that I followed your instructions right. I just posted a long post on that link you sent me. Now just waiting for someone to respond. I may not know everything, but I have tried searching to see if others have been where I think and not many have. Just curious and willing to help.

          Thanks again!


      • Stephen would like to listen to your ideas. I’m 68 and have a lot free time. Live in Missouri. Contact me if you are still looking for a partner

        • I am leaving to go out west April 3rd I know where I’m going I just wanted to what state that you have an idea if it matches mine we might be able to get togetherpl

        • Hello. This is Stephen. My ideas have changed some since I was last on here, but the locations really haven’t. I could be totally wrong, but I don’t feel Arizona is a state that the treasure is in. I have never been out west, due to the fact I live in Tennessee and have no time or money to travel. I would love to one day same two weeks worth of time and about 2,000 to 3,000 dollars and take my wife and I through 2 stops in Colorado, and the rest of the time surround myself around the Yellowstone area. I strongly feel that the treasure is in the Yellowstone based on a location he remembers growing up and may have ventured or talked about with someone from his past. About the poem. I have been strong on the idea that the 9 clues are the nine sentences in the poem, and then I came across another idea that if you start at “begin it……” from there count each line as one clue and til you get to the ninth line and that ends it at the phrase “if you’ve been wise”. That could be the actual location. Just two thoughts, not facts. I will never claim that I am right….unless I find it or help someone find it….lol! I would love to hang out with others and discuss ideas. I was obsessed with figuring out the poem for a while, then reality caught up with me and family priorities needed to be done first. I still am highly interested, but only can put so much time into this. I wish someone could financially sponsor me to go on this adventure. I would ask off work for a couple of weeks if that could happen and I would film every location and step I took so if I didn’t find it, at least I could share it with others as proof of certain locations to knock out. It would be really cool to find other guys who love treasure hunting and do the adventure like the goonies or national treasure wtihout all of the drama….lol! Please let me know your thoughts and I would love to discuss more with you. I am located in West Tennessee, right next to Missouri. Where are you…..near Branson or St.Louis, Branson is my favorite..Silver Dollar City!

      • Steven did you ever go searching or help anyone on there journey? I was hoping you we share your ideas with me. I just happened upon your post and since I’ve just not starting looking into all this I figured I might as well get as much information as I can . I’m an impulsive get up and go type of guy. Don’t have anything keeping me down and no one telling me not to go. I also have some ideas but need to refine them and put them up against all the given clues. My name is Omar. I can be reached at I hope to hear from you.

  2. once a week. It’s the fumes that give me my inspiration. I’ve decided to not look for the treasure anymore…it’s my strategy. Since I probably will only go there one or two more times to look…I’m going to find things I want to do out there and search those areas. Isn’t that a good idea? If I go with my husband…I’m going to send him out fishing to look and maybe I’ll find a hot spring to hang out in. If I go with my girlfriend…not sure where we should look. Any ideas? She’s not at all the outdoorsy type…you wouldn’t think I am..but I actually like it out in the woods as long as there’s no bears. So I need to search somewhere pretty with her LOL.

  3. Ideas?
    Of course but you figure I should tell everyone who reads this where my favorite spots are at?
    I may not be the smartest flea in the circus but I’m not dimwitted enough to do that…lol..
    You’ve got to trade me a thunder egg…


  4. Now where would I find a thunder egg Dal? I only first learned about them in your blog. I’m a girl from the Midwest who paints her toes….if we dug around here, we’d end up in someone’s septic system. Hmm, what else can I trade? You don’t want to see two grown women spending all their time out treasure hunting at the spa now, do you? That would be a waste of a perfectly good trip. Or, maybe you do….hmmm

    Oh and your plenty smart…..that’s why I want all your left over search areas…just in case you left it behind.

    I thought of the perfect place last week…but it ended up it can’t be there…was going along the lines of military things when I found it. Now just today, I have a new search place that would be fun to go to even if it’s not there 🙂 But it’s deep back in the woods…..Reading Codex too…so I might have to search Honduras. Have you read many of his books? I bought a few others and I’m going to check them out.

    Do you have any good documentaries? Those honestly are my favorite thing. I just saw Candyman a couple weeks ago which was good. Did you see youtube has a documentary contest going? Do you have any of yours online?

  5. Clever poem that took years to complete. Maybe reading the clue backwards might help to since I found….just saying now.

    • Interesting thought. I don’t think anyone has suggested that before…
      That’s what we need…cleverness…in order to solve this puzzle…

      • in reading your blog it helped me think of something different which i feel has me believing i know exactly where it is thank you sir !! cant wait till the warm weather is upon us

  6. My take on all this is a Letterboxer will solve this. Good luck! aka Psychomommy (a retired lettereboxer)

    • funny cause i truly believe i have solved it and am going as the weather allows,,,

      • Odd. Cause I solved it too. Just waiting till the roads open to go. The race is on. Or The game is afoot! If u prefer.

        • LordD-
          You have not solved it…You believe you have solved it!!!
          No one has solved it until they can prove their solution. You cannot prove your solution until you have it in your hands and in order for us to believe you, we will need a photo…
          Please don’t go around saying “I solved it” until it’s in your hands and you have evidence…

          • dude it was a joke, chill, i was merely commenting on the fact that u hear that alot, Ive solved it, i know where it is, etc, etc. the person before before me was all IVE SOLVED IT, and the person before them IVE SOLVED IT, just pointing out the funny.

          • The problem is that some won’t take it as a joke and will give up before they even start. Dal’s passionate like many of us in hearing Forrest’s message of getting out in the wilderness to enjoy life and believing in helping get it out. It’s a hot button to hear things like I found it, or I solved it.

  7. I have spent many days now going over the clues and im like thousands of others think they have found the hiding spot but i truly believe i have. Dal i must say you were of great help, your blog really helped with one of the main clues. the first clue and the brown clue were the hardest but once i figured them out the rest was much easier. myself my son and two others started looking at this several days ago. finally today we gathtered and shared our seperate thoughts on the location they all agreed i have it right. in fact the clues take you to an exact location. and Forrest and Dal were right you really have to do your homework on this. now got to wait till certain roads open up once its warm.


    • Agreed. Very curious :
      which state you’re headed to.?
      And if you also found that the “so here” line ties in, remarkably connected, with the hidden clues in the first stanza.?
      Best luck, and please take my advice: write up your report before you search.

      • would rather not give that away just yet…lets just say that clues lead to where it begins…and where it begins to actual treasure is no more than a thousand feet, if that. and yeah, sow here is pretty much the final thing to do. What do mean by writing up my report? I’m a novice…

        • Write up report : meaning, write out your treasure hunt method /thoughts before you go, write down NOW what you would like to post after you finish your trip. Whether you win the kitty or end up with a handful of jokers, your mindset WILL change after you do the boots-onthe-ground portion of a treasure hunt. Recording it now will a) help you share here after you return -’cause we’re all looking forward to that, truly!!! & b) help keep you grounded when you’ve returned, regardless of if you missed it and are discouraged/distraught or nabbed it and are now a millionaire. 🙂

          Good hunting / Good luck in …Wyoming?

  8. I started this about 3 weeks ago using nothing but poem and map. I’m going sunday to check location. If I’m right, it is very precise and straight forward from beginning to end. Whether I find it or not, I’ll share my interpretation as I haven’t seen any comments along this line. I only have 1 shot at this because after November will be far too far away to search.

  9. first stanza-2 clues second stanza-2 clues third stanza-1 clue fourth stanza-2 clues fifth stanza-1clue sixth stanza-1 clue

  10. Good Luck michelle, did you use or find some type ‘code’ to apply to the poem to solve it , or does warm waters really mean warm waters?

  11. You may know this, but some possible search locations are difficult to get to now because of cold weather and snow, So I hope you take some time to consider that, and have fun on the search.

  12. Will do, like I said, only have one shot at this, have been totally immersed for 3 weeks, wish I’d of known about all of this earlier, I know a lot of people much smarter than me have spent much more time on it. But I will happily share what info I have after this weekend, maybe it will help others.

  13. I can’t help but think about your answer and ask about your words of two blazes…. how would you arrive at that, what makes you think or has made you find TWO blazes?

    • Ok, have you given thought as to if its Buried? do you think its sitting on top of the ground or not, I think some ppl could have missed finding the chest becasue it might be lightly covered with dirt, grass, rocks, or something, even if just by Nature and time. Will you have a Metal Detector?

      • The cynic /prankster in me wonders if FF hid the chest in an antique store or museum full of 3-deep shelves of old Romanesque chests 😉

  14. no metal detector, buried has multiple meanings, and the best hint I can give you right now is the last one which is so hear me all and listen good…listen to those words, don’t read them just listen…sow here…

  15. Thats interesting, becasue over in The Poem section, a fellow called Jim was sure he know where it was, he flew out to search last weekend, and only reported back that he could not find a Blaze.

  16. I can’t tell you how badly I need to find this, if it doesn’t work out, you can have all my research but please keep me in your thoughts.

  17. Listen good…..Do you mean like hearing the wind, church bells, jets, cows, when out there searching, listen good….

    • Okay, I do wish you Good luck in finding the chest and hope that you have a safe and enjoyable trip , if you want or care to you can reach me, musstag at Yahoo

  18. Wahtever happened to jim??? He never posted his search. He said he was going to “spill the beans” on his rationle. I guess humbleness tastes iike porcupine! meat to some people? But I would still like hear his adventure

  19. Yes, Jim only reported back that he did NOT find it. Now J.R. is sure he got it figured out, I think he plans to go and be back in a 2 weeks.

  20. I don’t think I’d ever get over it if it is where I think and somebody beats me to it by a day or 2.

  21. Recently Jim, now Michelle. Michelle is very new to the chase, so I am leary of her solve. I think Jim was on to something, but only on paper. I think I have 80% on paper, probably the same hoB as Jim. But now I second guess. Solutions on paper are like shiny cars on a used car lot. At night! I think many searchers know how all nine clues are in the poem only. I got some inspiration elsewhere but only because it made me THINK. Use the poem, use the 1st book. I need the answer, exactly which are the nine clues. With the last FF reading of the poem, is “Begin…
    halt” “And take…down” one clue or two? What think you?
    I hope Jim or Michelle spill their solve only if they are totally WRONG. Do you want to solve this yourself, or give someone who lives 5 miles away an unfair advantage?
    Plan to put boots down after snowmelt. When I do, I WON’T insist that I have it solved. The cart will follow the horse.

  22. I don’t insist that I have it solved, don’t think anyone can until they’re holding the treasure. It’s true that I’m new but what does that mean really? If I have found it, I can say that no luck was involved, I’ve studied the poem and believe that I’ve deciphered it. There was no guesswork involved, only facts, no hidden coordinates or secret page numbers in his books, just the poem and a map, plain and simple.

    • I have a solution among my three faves that thoroughly agrees, Michelle. That line always struck me as fun wordplay since it starts “Begin” and halts at “halt”. I dare say that it’s 1) not the line on which to ‘begin’ your trail/search and 2) it stands on its own, as do all 9 sentences.

      • totally agree…imo clues start with very first line of as I go alone in there…actually have 2 in that line alone…

  23. I am totally confident that I have a perfected solve.
    Not simply a rudamentary solve,but one that put’s the full picture together.There is gonna be some personal explaination on Forrests part afterwards.
    So,more than landmarks does anyone else have the reasons for the choice of clues and the location of placement ?
    I suggest before anyone throws their hard earned money at a trip to search that they do that form of homework.
    As though they are writing down Forrests intent of his chosen location.
    Like I said,I am confident that I have all that figured out and it is not only gonna be surprising where the treasure is,but for some it will be that fall back and breakout laughing moment.Even if they are not the one to find it.
    I have to say I gave out one of the best starting locations that has even been posted on any blog.
    And that is the Levee Mural Pueblo Colorado.
    It is a Guiness Book Of World Records location.
    It is also a Historic Location of Warm Waters Halting at the Arkansas Riverwalk.Which is important for those future generations a 100 or 1000 years from now.
    Those are the Mysteries that need answering,not just is a Brown Boot on Mr. Brown a Home of Brown or not.
    This Poem Cypher is way Deeper in Meaning than most of what I have seen people chat about.
    I am gonna be laughing myself silly when the chest is revealed.
    Because I understand Why Forrest chose where he chose to put it.
    Forrest says it took 2 trips to get the treasure where he wanted it.
    I say those trips were about 3 years apart and yes I have a good tangible reason for it.

    • YOU Said: I say those trips were about 3 years apart and yes I have a good tangible reason for it.

      To the point, you should state those reasons, because it won’t be a loss , I was following you there untill that

  24. Michelle, I don’t mean to insult you. I only mean to caution you about early enthusiasm. The poem is more complicated than just reading it and then looking at a map to fit the clues. We all did that early on. One morning I woke up thinking I had something. I drove 100+ miles to solve the poem. Here was my first search:
    WWWH = Hebgon Lake dam
    Canyon down = canyon below dam
    (not far..)
    hoB = Brown trout in Hebgon Lake
    npft meek = ghost villiage
    then a “draw” visible on google maps
    “no paddle up your creek” was what woke me up. What if there are no Beavers on Beaver creek? Then there are NO PADDLES!

    Well, there ARE beavers on Beaver creek. I saw their slide up by the bridge.And I could have noticed the big swampy beaver ponds up above on google earth even before I left. And frankly, I just don’t think the place is special enough for FF to inter himself for eternity. But if you want to follow the last creek on Earthquake Lake, it sure has some heavy loads and water high, if you are so “inclined” to walk up there.
    Please enjoy your search, Michelle. If you find the treasure I will concede and congratulate you!

    • Idaho = Good Solve, but after hoB of Quake Lake, you do NOT need Beavers, the next part of the Madison river is a WADE ONLY fishing area, no Boats no Paddles…..

      • respect you, ‘stang, but I’m like George Thoroughgood- –
        I drink alone… with nobody else.
        Don’t know what Ho-raah-doo-rah is drinkin’, but I’m stayin away from the fog for awhile.

      • Idahoel or Diggin G, Is there a place called Wade Lake after Quake Lake, I thought the Madison River regroups from quake lakes spillway, and the river is very narrow there, is this wrong? and that part of the river is wade fishing only, Is that what you are calling Wade Lake, maybe, I’m just asking….

        • Musstag, Quake Lake formed 1959 when the mountainside away from the road fell, burying many campers and sealing off the Madison. The drainage for the river had to be bulldozed open and it is very narrow there. Then it widens out as it leaves the canyon and continues meandering. It is possible to wade it past Quake Lake. Wade Lake is way up in the mountains just n. of Idaho. Beautiful area. No FF treasure.

          • Okay Thank you both for helping to clear that up, I have looked there myself, but now have researched additional info about the area, that may take me back there some day. YES I saw the beaver dens alongside the road at that creek, and the dead wood still standing at Quake Lake, OH WHAT is it you called Ghost Village, is that some of the cabins that fell into the Hebgen lake?

  25. I understand what you’re saying, I, too, have been everywhere from constellations in space to connecting dots on map trying to find “it”. Finally something clicked, so simple and obvious that I can’t believe I didn’t see it sooner. I’m not using map to fit clues or using clues to fit map…I really want to explain this fully but not until I check. It literally starts from the first line of the poem and goes all the way to the end.

  26. by the way, that was clever about the beavers, but the problem so many people seem to be having is that left to interpretation, there are many places that can be made to fit…what I did was not interpretation.

  27. It just irks me that some people roll their eyes when, in all actuality, I have just as good a chance to find it on my first attempt as someone on their 115 attempt… Just by following his very precise directions.

  28. And my guess on THINK would be Tie Head In New Kercheif…cause the thinking cap you got on now just ain’t working!

  29. He vaguely stated why.
    Because he did not put it where he wanted it the first time.
    My contention is that all did not happen the same day,it happened 3 years apart.

    So what makes one spot better than the other ?
    Why 3 years apart ?

    Those answers I already know.
    The first time it tired him out .
    The second time he was weak as he was 3 years older.

    He waited because the first time was a trial run and maybe the box was empty.
    Nobody found or noticed him so he completed the hide.

    You did not expect a more site specific answer now did you ?
    If I told you there was a scheduled event like a dam opening or such then it would be too much info now wouldn’t it ?

  30. Thanks a lot everyone! I do feel confident but nervous…what if it is there? What if it isn’t? And Dal, thanks for the offer but I think between my husband and myself…we got it covered! We are in Kansas for work all Novemeber…close to all the areas Forrest has hinted to! I’ll post pics if we find it and let you know all the details if we don’t.

  31. Good luck Michelle! Be safe and can’t wait to hear your story either way. If you will …… when you get to your spot – listen in the wind and tell me if you hear cursing from a man named jim!

    • I saw your pics, I love your owl t-shirt! I have an owl hat that I’ll be wearing on my search!

        • he’s an equipment operator for a fiber optics company…though a lot of times the equipment he operates is a shovel,lol

          • Ohhh ok my husband a lineman we live on the road a lot too 🙂 good luck searching its fun

          • He doesn’t mind really, he just loves being outside, he’s constantly bringing stuff that he finds on the job, old soda bottles and insulators or marbles and old toys that he’s dug up, he loves it…we’ve got boxes of stuff we’ve found at old burn sites and dumps stored beneath our trailer. it’s crazy…we’ll be hanging onto tree roots on a slippery bank of a raging river just so we can dig for old things…

          • oh, then you know the life! Where do you guys travel to the most? We are mostly in Oklahoma and Kansas.

          • Yeah, we are having fun, and I love the traveling and seeing new places for the most part, but definitely miss bathtub! Good luck to you as well and don’t forget to enjoy the trip as much as the destination!

  32. Dal – – –

    THINK doo rags, owl hats and gravatars here instead of ‘nine clues”. No editing? I thought we were serious here, not seriously fashion conscious. Lesson learned.
    As Keith Richards said about George Michaels, it’s time to “shave and go home”.
    Pueblo Pardo me. Thanks for all, Dal.

    • idahoel, as you like quotes so much, in the wise words of Bo Diddley,” first of all, you don’t know what it is and it has no meaning” I’m out of here, good luck to you all!

      • I meant that it is time for ME to “shave and go home”. Spent Sunday recovering buried coin. I’ve got the silver. Hope to soon hear that 3 weeks of study and 10 hours of daylight searching has resulted in Michelle Rice recovering Forrest Fenn’s treasure. Can’t wait to hear that.
        I won’t be commenting here again although I’ll check comments every now and then.
        Of MUCH MORE importance – – –
        I want to thank ALL VETERANS today for my freedom.
        THANK YOU ALL for your sacrifice.

  33. early yesterday morning and had to be back last night for work this morn, so only had a few hours to search. I still believe its there but know I won’t get another chance to go back, just don’t have the resources and will be leaving this area in a few weeks heading back to Oklahoma then Arkansas.

    Two things to remember…
    1. the treasure started in Sante Fe, NM
    2. It is the key. I=eye as in see, look, gel, search…t=spot on map

    As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold, I can keep my secret where, and hint of riches new and old.
    I= look gone=go North East from Sante Fe alone=Taos(meaning Individual journey) in there= spot on map North of here with my treasure bold=mountains of Taos I can keep my secret here and hint of riches new and old=this is where he hid the treasure

    Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk. Put in below the home of Brown.
    Begin=go I=ogle t=spot on map
    google mapBoy I hate to do this but I said I would, so here it goes…but first a few preliminaries…Where we went to search is an 11 hour round trip drive for us, we left early yesterday morning and had to be back last night for work this morn, so only had a few hours to search. I still believe its there but know I won’t get another chance to go back, just don’t have the resources and will be leaving this area in a few weeks heading back to Oklahoma then Arkansas.

    Two things to remember…
    1. the treasure started in Sante Fe, NM
    2. It is the key. I=eye as in see, look, gel, search…t=spot on map

    As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold, I can keep my secret where, and hint of riches new and old.
    I= look gone=go North East from Sante Fe alone=Taos(meaning Individual journey) in there= spot on map North of here with my treasure bold=mountains of Taos I can keep my secret here and hint of riches new and old=this is where he hid the treasure

    Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk. Put in below the home of Brown.
    Begin=go I=ogle t=spot on map
    google map
    where=west of here
    warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down=red river the town, the road and the river.
    Not far=close
    far to walk=a quest…close to Questa
    Put in below the home of Brown.=Home of Brown is Red river hatchery, below the hatchery is red river, don’t put in at hatchery, put in at red river which is straight below canyon which is s
    where=west of here
    warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down=red river the town, the road and the river.
    Not far=close
    far to walk=a quest…close to Questa
    Put in below the home of Brown.=Home of Brown is Red river hatchery, below the hatchery is red river, don’t put in at hatchery, put in at red river which is straight below canyon which is straight below pope lake res. west of Questa.
    From here it’s no place for the meek=see place on map, meek inherit the earth, you are in the water.
    the end is ever drawing nigh=cliff wall is high on your left side
    There’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high=go upstream, no padding for reasons stated, must zigzag across river a few times
    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze=A huge owl blaze on cliff wall about 300 feet upstream, look on google earth.
    Look quickly down, your quest to cease=see under water below the blaze to end your search. Water is shallow enough that a kid could wade it but deep enough that you can’t see the bottom.
    but tarry scant with marvel gaze,=trust me, you won’t linger, water is cold! we searched it with trash bags duct taped to our legs, that lasted about 5 minutes…
    just take the chest and go in peace=reference to pope lake.
    Why is it that I must and leave my trove for all to seek=searching…he searched for answers when tired, the philadelphia story.
    hear me all and listen good=listen for all the different meanings in the words he uses
    your effort will be worth the cold=kept telling myself that while in the water yesterday.
    if you are brave and in the wood=this is my favorite, the red river is the neutral border of the kit karson national forest and indian land which would solve or complicate ownership rights to the chest.
    I give you title to the gold=see above also may be a reference to embargo road.

    As a side note, in the story, tea with olga, he speaks about her bathtub being 36 inches which is also where warm waters halt and on page 105 his advice page in which he states nothing worse than wet bedroll on cold night(hear me all and listen well, your effort will be worth the cold)…36 and -105 are the first numbers of coordinates for the area…I have the rest if you’re interested.
    I don’t have metal detector or gps, both would be useful. I only had a few weeks from the time I knew about forrest fenn until I was in the area to search, took me not quite 2 weeks to come up with this, wish I’d of had more time…hope this helps and if you find it, maybe you’ll share with me, if not, so be it, good luck in any case. Also have one more alternative when you get to blaze, if you’re interested…just check out google maps and see for yourself, from canyon down is only 400 feet, straight down, not far but too far to walk. Hope you can understand all this, I’m still beat from yesterday.

    • Glad you got to see Taos and glad you weren’t looking in my spot lol Sounds like you had quite the adventure .

    • Michelle,

      If you are right and Forrest reads this he may say there has been one searcher who has solved more than two clues. That will be key.

      We’ll all be watching and listening.

      • you know, I sent forrest an email telling him to meet me there at a certain time if he wanted to see my face when I found it…or didn’t. I was in the canyon and missed our meeting place and time but when I came back down to the river where I left my socks and shoes after changing into dry ones, the tree that I left them under had a brand new blaze on it, I have pictures but will have to upload them later because I don’t have the camera usb cord with me.

        • Haha. To funny. Was he gonna meet y’all. There ? He usually only will meet in a public place .

          • I really don’t know, didn’t hear back from him, just thought it was odd coincidence to have the blaze there when I got back…

    • Yeah, I know diggingypsy, but you’re not likely to run into anyone in this area, the fishing is no good here, not to mention bush whacking because no trail and crossing river a couple of times is the only way to get there.

    • Michelle,
      (repeat post – better located here)

      Your story and logic is very similar (yet interestingly different) to my adventure.

      I too used Pope Lake as the starting point and the Red River hatchery (HOB) in my – Our First Search- part 4
      and you can see the picture of the owl blaze in the box down from the Hatchery (I called it a centurion but it is an owl) in the story Our First Search – Part 3

      Perhaps this will help you or maybe in a few more posts you will discover my Area 6 (my personal favourite)!

      Good Luck!

      The Wolf

  34. yeah, it beats going to the gym! another option when you get to the blaze is…
    look quickly down, your quest to cease but tarry scant with marvel gaze just take the chest and go in peace=see below river, don’t stop there, go up box canyon on right…just happens to have a box canyon there…
    Why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek?=about a hundred feet or so up the canyon is another blaze seen from google maps that looks like a 15 or is or the omega sign…the answers he already knows…depending on angle you view it. so hear me all and listen good=sow here, brave and in the wood=kit carson national forest.

  35. here are the coordinates if you have a gps or can use google map satellite…
    where warm waters halt, near questa, nm—36.694550, -105.634006
    below home of Brown—-36.690506, -105.634730
    first blaze—36.691216, -105.632402
    box canyon—-36.690670, -105.631796
    second blaze—36.689558, -105.631914

      • look it up on google map, not a bad hike, about 30 minutes from the hatchery, especially if he broke the weight of the treasure in half over two trips

        • also the second blaze being 15 or omega sign…cancer sign is 69, 6+9=15, this is when he was questioning a lot and was tired…omega sign signals the end…

  36. Is there a “search” box on this site? I would hate to have to go back and find a post from way back. If anyone can help – I was looking for Something i saw here about forrest and his use or non/mis use of the letter S………?

  37. Sorry about my earlier post, don’t know what happened, but will try it again and be more precise.
    We left out early yesterday morning to search, it’s a 11 hour drive round trip so we only had a few hours to search…The following is how I broke up the nine clues and got to where we searched.

    1. As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold, I can keep my secret where, and hint of riches new and old.

    I figured the treasure started from Sante Fe as that is where he last speaks of having it before he hid it. I also think that “it” is the key. “I” as in eye; see, look, search, ogle…and “t” as in spot on map.

    So, using that, I came up with- look north east from Sante Fe to west of the mountains of Taos.
    gone=go north east….Taos means individual journey. Treasures bold meaning the mountains. Where meaning west of here.

    2. Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk.

    Begin could be go, “I” could be ogle, “t” could be spot on map. So I got google map.
    Not far could be close…far to walk could be a quest. So I got close to Questa. Just so happens that this is also where you’ve got Red River town, Old Red River rd and Red River itself. Being from Texas, I know the importance of Red River. The only place I see where warm waters halt near Questa is at the Pope lake res. There is a canyon right below it going down about 400 feet, too steep to walk.

    3. Put in below the home of Brown.

    I believe home of Brown is the red river hatchery, below that runs the red river. Following the canyon down takes you straight to the river.

    4. From there it’s no place for the meek, the end is ever drawing nigh: there’ll be no paddle up your creek, just heavy loads and water high.

    The meek shall inherit the earth, you are now in water with a high cliff wall to your left if you are headed upstream. Huge boulders and small waterfalls make it necessary to cross river several times.

    5. If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down, your quest to cease, but tarry not with marvel gaze, just take the chest and go in peace.

    Looking on google maps satellite, there is a huge owl blaze on cliff wall about 300 feet upstream from where you enter river from canyon. below the blaze and below the river on the right is a box canyon. I figure you don’t stop at the blaze but take the canyon up on your right. “just” meaning right and “chest” meaning box and “go in peace” meaning up.

    6. So why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all the seek?

    This is a little complicated but will do my best. Near the top of the canyon is another blaze that when seen from google maps, look like a 15 or the omega sign. 15 being the sign of cancer…6+9=15 and omega meaning the end.

    7. The answers I already know, I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

    Answers in the plural. Cancer was a time in his life along with the Philadelphia story, that he questioned life in general, the purpose of it, if you will. Also when he had his “aha” moment and found his own answers.

    8. So hear me all and listen good, your effort will be worth the cold.

    If you listen to the words of “so hear” without reading them, you might here “sow here”…you reap what he sowed.

    9. If you are brave and in the wood I give you title to the gold.

    This final location is in the Kit Carson National Forest. The bravest of the brave mountain men.

    This is my interpretation of the clues…there is more like the story of tea with olga in which he talks about her tub, where warm waters halt, being 36 inches and the page 105 in which he gives advice such as nothing worse than a wet bed roll on cold night (hear me all and listen good, your effort will be worth the cold)…36 and -105 are the main numbers of coordinates in this location. I have more but this is it in a nutshell. I listed the main coordinates in an earlier post. I didn’t have much time to search, no gps or metal detector, We used trash bags duct taped to our legs to cross the river. I’ts not a long or difficult hike if you start out parked at the hatchery. From pope lake you are probably within 500 feet of it, but actually have to start walking from hatchery. Another option that I considered is beneath the water under the first blaze. Good luck.

  38. Wow…Michelle.
    Whether you are right or wrong thats the best solve Ive heard….Ever!
    And no Molly Mine…brilliant.

    Plz excuse me I’m not as smart…is drawing nigh a clue to go left?
    Which way are you facing the blaze?

  39. oh what the heck…here ya go….

    Begin it where warm waters halt

    beggin’it, wear em’, what ore’s halt…carbon dioxide, diamonds, lead-Carbon county, montana, cooney res.

    not far, but too far to walk……4 nautical miles, 24 road miles

    put in below the home of brown…..puttin, below the home of brown….Willow rd, rust grows on willow

    if you’ve been wise and found the blaze…if you’ve been wisened, found the blaze! Mooned! 45.343127,-109.263840

    look quickly down your quest to cease…look quickly down your quest to see the

    but tarry scant with marvel gaze…buttery sandwich marmalade

    the answers I already know….hindsight

    if you’re brave and in the wood…if you’re braving the wood

    lot’s of bathroom humor, and a butt is above 5000 feet, its above every pair of feet!
    Talk about being a private and special place!
    Do you need a flashlight and a sandwich to find yours?

    I drove 14 hours to get here, almost had a nervous collapse, wasn’t prepared…call me if you want
    (785) 819-5651

  40. Oh, almost forgot…

    just heavy loads and waters high….just heavy loads and what are I? a hole…forgive me.

    • and I measured the distance, it is 4 miles by river and 24 to drive to the coordinates that I listed above, just take a look at the coords on google sat. It’s perfect!

        • Hope you get it! I know, everyone wants something…want in 1 hand and **** in the other, and see which one fills up first, right?

          • It’s gave me more than a headache…more like a nervous breakdown…when I figured this out, Tuesday afternoon, I immediately drove to the area that night, arriving at dawn, no gps, no metal detecter, I drove myself crazy trying to find the location, looks nothing like google map when on ground…didn’t eat for two days, was prob dehydrated…got lost…long story short….drove back at 3 a.m. next morning, crying the entire way! Advice to everyone: Prepare!!!

  41. Once you have “where warm waters halt”, taken “it in the canyon down”, and have “put in below the home of Brown”, you must be a person that is not “meek” and you “are brave”. Two references in the poem to being uninhibited imply to me that it is a very necessary attribute for any searcher. Bears, elk, wolves? Cliffs? Walking across frozen ponds or streams? Searching when your spouse says no?

    “Your effort will be worth the cold” might be suggesting that the hiding spot can only be reached by foot during the winter. If so, this just couldn’t be a final burial spot and poses the question of whether or not ff has several secret spots. ff might have decided on the final hiding spot well after he was cured of cancer.

    A searcher might want to reconsider any area that he/she found unreachable during spring, summer, and fall.

    • More fuel for thought.

      Did ff anticipate the notoriety of TTOTC? I believe that he did. He took 15 years for contemplating TTOTC.

      Does ff want the treasure to be found during his lifetime? I don’t believe that he does. It would end TTOTC.

      I believe that ff knew TTOTC would add to his longevity and thus hid the treasure so that it would not be found unless natural forces exposed it.

      This does not mean that it can’t be found, it just means to me that it is buried/placed in a very secluded spot. If there is evidence of people having been there before you, I believe that you are probably in the wrong area. An animal trail might even be too obvious. Hunters love animal trails.

      Would ff give false clues? I think not. It would be more damaging to him than TTOTC was helpful.

      This thinking leads me to believe that a person only needs to solve where warm waters halt near a canyon and where the home of Brown is in order to be at the true point of beginning for TTOTC (I know easier said than done). The searcher then needs to identify all creeks in the vicinity. Then the searcher must determine which time of year is best for searching each creek. The creek in the canyon down might be the only creek near the home of Brown. And, of course the searcher must be able to recognize a ff blaze, which might not be visible year round. For example, a small exotic waterfall or a ff marked boulder that could be visible in the winter but submerged by runoff during the other seasons. A metal detector is probably a must have.

    • dollarbill its my opinion that meek is still part of the map that takes you to the treasure I don’t think it has nothing to do with being brave just my opinion

      • Hey Frank, if everyone had the same opinions, then wouldn’t everyone be looking in the same spot. I believe that all opinions are welcome, when stated as such. I look forward to counter opinions different from mine.

        I would sincerely like to know how you arrived at “no place for the meek” is part of a treasure map. I don’t see a connection.

        • ok meek also means small- so from home of brown the small treasure chest is not there just heavy loads and waters high so from there I go to the blaze that’s how I read that part of the poem its just my opinion I don’t mean to say that you are wrong in your way of thinking or that im right

          • I see what your saying now. I think that we both agree that the only person that is going to be right in their opinions is the person that finds the chest.

  42. Michelle…all day I thought…what confidence you have.

    For me to move with that kind of confidence…f would of had to show me.

    Or GPS.

    Mapsmith…I apologise…I had the wrong Powell…
    Like lewis and clark im guessing powell was a mapsmith too.

    So…why not find this box?
    I dont know???
    If f said 8.25 N of Santa Fe and
    W 300 miles of Toledo???
    We should be able to find it…or Michelle can.
    (is this correct dal)

    Mapsmith: is their math here?
    Will this create GPS Coordinates?

    Could we not share…start a trust…semi annual gatherings…a trust could last a long time…help many…be fun… Rewarding!
    And of course help take care of f and his friends for many years.

    Example. I read the cemetary in Taos where Milicent Rogers is burried and many artist are burried needs work…
    How about charities like
    Danny Thomas’s Hosp.

    I’m srry too much coffee!
    Good luck!
    Mark H.

    • Mark, I don’t know if I would call it confidence, more like compulsion, lol. Still working out details and sharing everything I come up with as it might help others. I’m not greedy and am hoping if someone else finds it with my help that maybe they will help me in turn. It’s taking a chance but no guts, no glory.

  43. Sorry! Looks like postings have changed? Hard to see my type!Anyways – has anyone tried to explain their reasonings to “your clues” and they just don”t get it? It seems tuff to exchange ideas or reasoning with a non fenner! I too wish I could share my thoughts! Thanks Michelle for showing the willingness to help exchange ideas! And thanks for others who have done the same!

  44. Voracious reader huh?
    I like your avavatars….nice!

    Did u make the top pair?

    I want to run out and buy clay to make my own moon…

    Reminds me of the huge set in A CLOCK WORK ORANGE.

    Mooning people is sometimes fun…

    I guess I could virtually shoot Brimley the moon…smiles.

    I have to remember how fun this has been…
    Thank you Michelle.
    🙂 Mark H

  45. Too funny! I love the cryptic emails I get from Forrest…”Imagination is more important than knowledge and you don’t want me to misspell at least one of the words?”…”How do you know where the edge is if you don’t go over there and look?”…”Please don’t tell me you’re a centerline girl”…They all drive me insane!!!

  46. I was reading the blog when I looked over my shoulder to see a menacing character blowing fire and breading ahoard… That’s when mama told me to go rake leaves. All the leaves are brown and the sky is grey….I believe in summer…I looked up the mammas and the pappas California Dreamin and I couldn’t find it free…now I know that is sort of stealing but its also history…I don’t know?
    Well boots better get back to looking in nm.
    Hugs back!
    Mark H.

  47. Hi Michelle…
    This is interesting and also part of a new angle…I still like my first solve but I’m trying to think outside The Box! El box de mysterio?
    The French in NM…prob…used a different map…
    Veterans Memmoials…lest they not be forgot…Angel fire is a good bet…braclet…bronze statues and monuments.
    It seems to me (not to find a hole in my GPS THEORIES) and Just a thought.. That pilots use land marks and monuments to navigate When flying low…not instruments.
    MARK H.

  48. I know what you mean, I’ve been trying to look at natural landmarks seen from the air. Also thinking about degrees on map, latitude and longitude…you know Ptolemy came up with original prime meridian in about 150 b.c. Very different from what we have now.

  49. Somewhere I read that Forrest and his dad would leave all their fishing gear
    somewhere before returning to Texas. Do you know where I found that? I need to read about that again.

    • I remember that also, but not sure where. I believe it was behind a bush near the Fishing Bridge in Yellowstone National Park.

      • Really? I never heard him say other than “it was our secret spot, and every year, we returned, and our gear was there, untouched.” I thought that secret spot would be either on the grandloop between Mammoth and Junction, or it would be over on the highway running along the Madison.
        Though now I think about it, I thought I also read at one point, that the spot was just outside the Nat’l park, but I don’t recall if that was someone else/journalistic flair speaking rather than mr Fenn himself.

  50. Have to take a friend to Tunica for few days and gamble…
    🙂 Horseshoe.
    Michelle The 15 thing…nice.
    I’d been hunting Minerva Or a rainbow since I saw It on russels tree…Grrrr!
    At That box canyon…is It blakes Lake and some old cabins? Some water falls and an X.
    I think I still Have a spot here so I can’t say…but The bull and I are not done! I will tell You I got to here and went south and east….probably nothing but still plausible…I’m thinking quite a few people are headed this way though so It will come out soon!…I cant’ lie!

  51. Okay…we found some rocks making a path…a kokopelie guy…and a labrinth on a tree…to hopin good to not go back and look again. prob no connection but to fun…
    36 105…good startn spot

  52. sounds like you may have followed Cimarron to Canadian and on to Turkey or Baldy…don’t have to confirm or deny.

  53. Ya…I guess eveyone is mad your talking to me…You must be The true jewel…

    My girl friend saw your avatar and woudn’t talk to me for hours…

    I can’t say I blame folks…Maybe You could change your pic to a rock named Bob …Lol.
    Yes The area between The galaxy, green, Baldy, and the Bull…I’ve narrowed It down from a quarter of The country to a third…

  54. Sorry about that…I do like the name bob, same front and backwards! If it makes her feel any better, I’ve lost a good 25 lbs since that picture…call it the Fenn diet!
    I did a search on the quotes he used on his bells, interesting stuff…Einstein, Errol Flynn, Kennedy, Heinrich Heine…all double letters in their name. Also using what he added and took away to the quotes…got; knowledge is limited, it’s his job, who, ED…A.D 10,000….10,000 years is an chinese phrase meaning long live….
    Confucious is greatest Chinese teacher. John Donne did for whom the bell tolls, meaning mortality and no man is an island, meaning isolation. Poem has double or twin…sorry, this probably isn’t making a lot of sense…

  55. I sent Forrest an email with this info, he wrote back…”You are very clever. Have you thought about taking your show on the road?” I told him that I had been on the road a couple of times but needed more rehearsal time.

    • Michelle,
      Your story and logic is very similar (yet interestingly different) to my adventure.

      I too used Pope Lake as the starting point and the Red River hatchery (HOB) in my – Our First Search- part 4
      and you can see the picture of the owl blaze in the box down from the Hatchery (I called it a centurion but it is an owl) in the story Our First Search – Part 3

      Perhaps this will help you or maybe in a few more posts you will discover my Area 6 (my personal favourite)!

      Good Luck!

      The Wolf

      • thanks a lot Wolf, I’ve been putting thought into his whole double thing…I’m wondering if maybe there isn’t 2 Fenns? I mean, I know we got Huckleberry Finn with 2 r and 2 n remarkably similar to Forrest, but I’m thinking he might have a pen name…

    • I think I might have a good ideal of home of brown from Virginia Woolf…just gotta do it in order.

  56. Bad connection but thank You map ….lots of fun… in case I get lost….Or unable to connect

  57. O.K. winter is here and I have way too much time to spend on this thing…somebody please talk me out of my latest obsession!
    I’m now leaning toward roman latin- As I have gone alone in there- “I” being the roman numeral for 1 or first…treasures bold- thesaurus being latin for treasure…Jana is goddess of secrets, associated with moon, from which I get nm and oo. (more double letters, arrrgh!) If where warm waters halt is where truth begins then Veritas is goddess of truth, legend tells that she hid at bottom of holy well…maybe Chimayo, Nm?

  58. The de Chimayo is my fav. wwwh….I went into the weaver shop and the Trujilios scared the **** out of me. They- a man and women stood together at parade rest behind a counter.
    Terrified…I said excuse me and backed out the door. I’d never seen a hispanic or native american so big!
    Yes…my kidneys were healed instantly…even though I stole the dirt….hmmm?

  59. the whole san cristobal thing fits into my questa area, just don’t know how the blaze would fit in from there

  60. Y’all are overthinking IMHO. I have it all solved down to the blaze and I have only 3 possibilities of what that is, and that is on the “micro” level, IOW you need to be there. This area I have narrowed to is smaller than a football field, and it all makes sense on different levels of interpretation. SNOW is the main problem now, which = access. I was there all alone in late November but couldn’t get to the spot before the snow made my effort futile. There are good reasons why it hasn’t been found yet. Mostly access is very limited by a certain way to get there, altho I am working on an alternate way to get there. Yeah, difficult access but still very accessible for an 80yo in Mr Fenn’s shape to get there. Someone should ask him if he could walk right up to it NOW. He might say yes but only with much trouble and only because he knows the exact spot.
    I urge all seekers to remember that there are nine clues. They are different from all the HINTS he has given. Ignore any hints or conjecture from those who don’t know. Maybe ignore my OWN hints too. But when I return to my spot I will have full intent to take it home this time, now that I know the area well.

  61. so, if we put in at holy well (pope lake res.) take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk. (400 ft drop) put in below the home of brown. (red river) From there no place for the meek…(San Cristobal creek). If you’ve been wise and found the blaze? (This is your cue to wisen me up…)

  62. There are some things that people aren’t thinking about here when it comes to looking for the treasure. For one,how many thousands of people have gone out and searched for it without finding anything? I bet you more than anything Forrest Fenn owns the land he hid it on to throw people off so they wouldn’t figure out where it is. Most people have searched high and dry for it so you come to the concluesion that you need to change how your chooseing to look for it. It’s not on private land or on government land so it’s probably on land he owns. This is an idea I want to give to anyone that read this: Where warm waters halt is going to be the biggest clue to finding the treasure. I can see it as maybe a dam or a hot spring but I’m not convinced it’s a waterfall because most waterfalls are owned by New Mexico or on private land.

  63. My take on the clues is below. I think the clues are simply directions (take I65 to US 50 …) but we do not know where to start, The roads are all landmarks and the direction, N S E W, are not given. I’ll leave the rest out to protect my location 🙂

    As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold,
    I can keep my secret where,
    And hint of riches new and old.

    #1 Begin it where warm waters halt
    #1 And take it in the canyon down,
    #2 Not far, but too far to walk.
    #3 Put in below the home of Brown.

    #4 From there it’s no place for the meek,
    #5 The end is ever drawing nigh;
    #6 There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
    #7 Just heavy loads and water high.

    #8 If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
    #9 Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
    But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
    Just take the chest and go in peace.

    So why is it that I must go
    And leave my trove for all to seek?
    The answers I already know,
    I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak.

    So hear me all and listen good,
    Your effort will be worth the cold.
    If you are brave and in the wood
    I give you title to the gold.

    • Nice Guy,

      My name is Stephen. I am one of those guys who has been reading and analyizing this poem over and over. I live in Tennessee and it seems very unlikely that I would ever have the chance to go look for the treasure, but I would love to give my ideas to someone who is interested and can go look for it much easier than myself. I don’t really care about having the treasure for myself……just the thought of getting the location right is awesome enough. If you are interested in my ideas, please email me or I am one to talk on the phone about it. Not many people around me that are interested in this.



  64. I am very intrigued about this treasure, the first clue for me is his first line of the poem, he goes in there alone, which means by himself, with no one else to help him on this journey. The second clue is the second line, which is and with my treasures bold, which means he is carrying it by hand, or more believably in a backpack, also the first four lines look to be a summarization of the journey itself. I think he “put in below the home of Brown” means he got in a kayak and floated a river, with Brown being capitalized, it is some ones last name, some one he knows. heavy loads and water high is rough water i.e. rapids. IF you’ve been wise and found the blaze, means a trail along the rivers edge. But tarry scant with marvel gaze means you will be tired and out of breathe when you find it. I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak means he has an illness like cancer. If you are brave and in the wood means, if you are not scared easily and you like adventure, the outdoors. I give you title to the gold means I give you possession of your findings.

    • Jason, You got it! this is basically what I think too….straight forward. Now if you figure out where this is. You have a chance at the treasure, just like all of us. 🙂

      Happy Hunting….
      Lou Lee Bear, Chased by Brown Bears in Jellystone Park and lived to tell.

  65. where warm waters halt is in the red river where warmer water from springs enter the river and enhances fish growth

  66. There is a spot in Jemez springs where the water goes underground and comes back up as the hot springs. Unfortunately, I believe it is an area well covered

  67. Here is an earlier take on the nine clues…nine clues…count ’em. It looks very similar (the listed clues at top of thread) all these years later…and yet…no banana. The comments sound eerily familiar as well. This almost seems like a remake of Groundhog Day…The puzzle becomes more of an enigma as time passes. Back to work….

    • Hey Ken,
      I have been lingering behind as you review older post, and make comments [ it’s a great process to do in my book ] What I find most interesting is stanza five. Even today, many seem to look over this stanza… I have to wonder why?
      While most of the poem seems to relay what is needed to be done or deciphered… this section seems to give answers or a reason to the poem, maybe.
      What exactly was done tired and weak? Life, age, exploring, war, writing the poem and the book, archeology, business… all the above… none of the above? Is the question posed for thought to who can keep my secret where? Does tired and weak refer to an action in the poem… maybe, no paddle up your creek, Just heavy loads and water high?

      So why is it “i” must go… could this reference the “i” in the first stanza to mean, that narrative I, is the one [ another ] who keeps the secret where? Two can keep a secret if one is dead, line of thinking.
      Some like to use Why as WY. Ok sure, wouldn’t the next thought be… what was done for tired and weak, if this is a reference to a state?

      In the above example; the first stanza is not considered a clue holder as well. Over the years this hasn’t change a whole lot as well. What is it about how many readers precede with the “lines” in the poem as clues holders, yet seemingly dismiss that this is a poem… was the avenue of a poem only utilized for flare, creativeness, or was the reason more involved as a complete usage of the words that could not be presented by any other means?

      Maybe it’s just a filler… then again, why bother with it, stanza 6 could easily take the place of this stanza, right? Fenn could have also dismissed stanza one, five, and six and simply had a three stanza poem…and still be just as hard.
      Don’t get me wrong, I can see how stanzas 2-3-4 looks like the clues needed… I just have to wonder… does the rest of the poem ‘tell’ us how to read it all.

      You’re right. It does seem years later, all we are doing is, rinse and repeat.

      • @Seeker

        Let’s remember, when Fenn wrote the Treasure Poem, he did it after he was cured of his cancer.

        • But the original idea was not born post-cancer… it was a pre-suicide scenario. Maybe a message to Peggy or family with buzz words they would understand.

          I think the two stanzas most empty of travel clues, 1 & 5, hold big, complicated ideas that couldn’t be reduced to a stanza … one has to really extract them from the book. (They may have originally held the buzz words.)

          • Nice take OS…Stanza 5 is a big pain in the you know what. Seeker’s example… “Wy…” is fairly common and rightly so if taken at surface level. I just do not see how it makes sense to find the State(in this example, Wyoming) so late in the poem. That thought escapes me every time. Subtle hints in TTOTC… do not equate to actually naming a State or search location for that matter in my opinion. There is nothing subtle about that.
            I like your use of “buzz words”…that is a great description of what may lead to an actual clue or reference to one.

        • Gordenlightfoot.
          As OS stated; The thought was prior.
          But lets go with that. Was the poem only written for ‘that’ point in time and beyond… or … could fenn have been able to write the poem at a much younger age? There was a comment that seemed to imply that. [paraphrasing] ~could have wrote the poem before he hid the chest, but he didn’t.

          Could the above comment say, he could have wrote the poem even before the thought of hiding a chest in that location. The chest is not important, as much as, how the ‘clues’ get to the spot. His pending death may not be as important as to how the clues work… all it was, was a kick start.

          Hence one of the reasons a road, in my mind, is out of the question as a positive clue… we don’t know exactly when the clues could have been implemented for whatever they reference… But what we do have now is, a reference to 1000 plus years in the future. Is fenn’s comment attempting to say the same for the past.

          There is also the consideration that the all clues references can only go back as far as fenn’s life span.

          Personally I think the poem could be solved by those in the time period of Osborne or Meek. IF so, that eliminates a whole lot of roads and many other thoughts I have read about, Like Brown to be a flea-market, or Molly Browns museum, and more likely to geographical and geological features… hence another possibility for the comment about, down the road in 3009, it would be more difficult because the RM’s are still moving.

      • Seeker, interesting ideas.

        It wouldn’t make sense that the -answers- he already knows for leaving the treasure for all to seek is just because he got tired and weak, right?

        Now, when I pair stanzas one and five (there is that 15 again, lol) it is almost like what he is tired and weak of doing is ‘hinting of riches’. Does that mean no more ‘relevant’ clues after this point?

  68. Yeah Seeker… I continue to rehash all that has been said or talked about. That is just in my blood…keep digging and do not overlook anything. Poetic license/ the use of a poem to convey what was necessary and still keep things open to interpretation. It was/is a very clever vehicle for Fenn to use.
    I still cannot convince myself that a searcher skips over the whole first stanza…then finds the first clue in the second…and so on. Skipping the fifth stanza also just does not jive with me either. I have had solves that were structured as such…but they never held any water for me. In fact they leaked like a sieve. I keep coming back to Fenn’s words about leaving out any words or dismissing them. So…I trudge forth and keep the avenues open. I have not found any clues in what I have read here on Dal’s blog…mine are a different approach…and quite likely incorrect.
    Just the same, these early threads keep it fresh for me and allow me to keep things light with some humor mixed in. I like to share some of these early comments just in case new folks have not taken the time to find out that their thoughts are not always as original as they think.
    Back to the salt mines…I have a couple more holes to patch in my own house of cards.

    • Ken ~ “…mine are a different approach…”
      I for one, am all ears. I would like very much to hear of any different approach to the challenge.

      lol “I for one” gave me a chuckle. replace I in stanza 1 for one [ same word usage, meaning, understanding of the word i ] and it reads as: AS one have gone alone in there. Another words; one prior to fenn may have shown fenn the secret place, and now, with “my” [ fenn ] treasures bold fenn has gone alone. Who is “I”
      Could this be the reason fenn chose “As I have” and not ‘ As I’ve gone ‘ ?

      I’m a believer that fenn could have wrote the poem so that the poem actually explains how to read it… This helps understand the certainty beforehand and not working on a hunch. or it’s a matter of thinking, not a matter of trying, or all the information is in the poem… and most of all… why it may have taken 15 years, on and off, to get it just right. No loop hole, no guessing, no over-complicating with other stuff, just the fact…

      So I’m with ya… Back to the salt mines…

      • Your last…about “certainty beforehand” is the premise that I have tried to adhere to. I have gone BOTG… before that certainty…and the trips were great sightseeing adventures. These trips have been enlightening and have given me a better sense of what exactly searchers are up against. They have also afforded me good insight as to what I need to hone in on to end this escapade. I do one trip a year … right around April Fools Day… just to keep the humor intact for myself. I figure…if Fenn can work on this Chase for as long as he has…I can do the same to solve it. Who knows…maybe this coming year I will have a change of heart and spill all my paint out on the canvas and give it up…and no, I do not think a hunch will solve it.

  69. Ken: Re: your post at 11:47…
    I cannot imagine a keyword, A SINGLE WORD, that can unravel the poem, unless it is the name of a place,.
    I doubt that Fenn would give out such a name, so what single word could be a key? There are several ‘words’ that are commonly expressed by a single character … U, I , Q, Y, 2, etc.
    “Focus” suggests ‘eye’ — phonetically same as ‘I’.
    So, who is “I” in the poem?
    Are all the ‘I’s” the same being?

    I think not, I think one is an ANTHROPROMORPHIC entity…
    I think that entity has a generic name, and a specific name (like Tree & Aspen or Park & Yellowstone) ….. OK, Goofy, attack me again for using a concept you twice told me was “ridiculous”. Or JDA, for my use of a word you consider too big or uppity for us hillbillies. ….. But recognize that anthropromorphism is a core element of religion and children’s literature. Before we learned the alphabet. we learned that animals & inanimate objects speak. “This bed is too small” said papa bear, “I think I can, I think I can.” said the Little Engine. Even Fenn says “the grass knows but won’t tell”.

    to continue… 15 years to write the poem, but the book wrote itself? Read the book, then read the poem over and over, then read the book again… and do it all again. Why? Wasn’t it supposed to be solvable with it’s first release? Before 242Walk, scrapbooks, interviews, etc.?

    So… Is there something subtle but specific IN the book? Or, something subtle and general ABOUT the book, the big-picture?

    The book:
    A preface introduces us to a venue and a time period; to ff, his wife, his father, Eric Sloane, and a joker (fate)
    Following is that strange IMP LIT thing.
    Then the the autobiography begins in warm-waters.
    PART 1: A good childhood, loved, sustained.
    Choices, pleasures, small lessons. Making
    rules & collections. Managing inner anxieties.
    PART 2: Adulthood, military service.
    An enlarging circle of humanity & history.
    Universal reflections on being & futility. On fate.
    Part 3: Taos. Forward momentum,
    Healing, self-governance, industry,
    Tragedies and recovery.
    2nd chances, creativity, relaxation,
    Intellectual pursuits. Peace & Purpose.

    So Why is an autobiography ever written?
    So Why was this autobiography written?
    So Why is a treasure offered to induce one to read this autobiography?
    Who is ”I”?
    Are there more than one of them?
    I think so.
    (… I’ll hold my tongue here to read other POV’s, and wait for delivery another used book, a copy of A River Runs Through It by N.Maclean. The R. Ebert review was very interesting. )

    • OS, I’m not gonna give ya a hard time or call ya uppity… But for health reason, could you knock it down to four syllable words. I almost had aneurysm trying to pronouns anthropomorphism.

    • My interpretation (opinion) of I is both Forrest and Indulgence. Forrest signs his name as f, so Indulgence could be I. I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak could mean that Indulgence had done it (the journey) tired (on tires on a vehicle) and now Indulgence is weak (= in a hollowed out area or watered down (like coffee)). This may have been stated before, but I’m not sure.

      So, OS2, I would be an ANTHROPROMORPHIC entity in my interpretation.

      I hope everyone had a very Merry Christmas!

  70. Seeker, i will limit my words to 4 syllables if you will limit your posts to 4 a day. Deal?

    I shoulda left out more than half of my last post, ! I’v got a lot of other reading to ketchup on, so I’m going silent til next year.

      • OS2 – Did you mean Santa Fe rather than Taos? I lost you there. If you did mean Taos, can you elaborate? I like that Taos rhymes with Laos. Makes one consider, lol. Concerning anthropomorphic – a big word for a relatively simple concept. I consulted my dog…he cried out “the eyes/ayes/I’s have it”.

  71. OS2 …nice layout of points to ponder. I believe TTOTC holds a couple of very subtle bits that will aid a searcher in terms of deciphering the clues in the poem. Beyond that…it is a good glimpse into the life of Fenn. I am sure these particular stories were specific for a reason. I also believe that there is a word that is key. I believe this because Fenn told us that. This word …for me …tells the “how” and the “where” all in one simple fashion. See ya next year…

  72. In my humble opinion (and I apologize in advance if someone already posted this and I missed it) … I think the clue that “there are 9 clues in the poem” is not a clue at all. The poem gives directions to the treasure and the poem has .. count ’em … 9 complete sentences in its entirety. Every sentence is a clue. Thank you for listening and good luck to everyone. 🙂

    • Kimber;

      If you go back and read past posts, (Going back at least 5 years) you will see that there are basically two camps or schools of thought on this.

      Camp #1 says that there are nine clues, and that there are nine sentences – Just like you pointed out.

      Camp #2’s school of thought is that the nine clues reside in stanza’s 2,3 and 4, and that stanza’s 1,5,and 6 contain hints.

      About 6 months ago, I made a remarkable (at least to me) discovery – It doesn’t matter. I was able to use either method and apply either method to several “old” solves, and came up with the same outcome either way.

      Who is right? – Maybe both are – JMO – JDA

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