The Poem…Part Four


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Here is Forrest reading his poem, The Thrill of the Chase. If you have not memorized the poem…don’t be concerned…neither has Forrest apparently…


804 thoughts on “The Poem…Part Four

  1. Thanks Dal!!
    Hey, back to the subject of this forum, the poem:

    On my mind:
    1. Present vs past tense.
    2. 1st person vs 2nd person narrative.
    3. the Missing x, but every other letter is there (if not in pairs, like Noah’s ark)
    4. Walk and halt being a Slant Rhyme but all else rhyming ABAB.
    5. FF’s intense poetry love.
    6. Waterfalls in his book.

    • Map, of all the things you have listed, the one of least importance to me is #3, the missing x. To me it seems like it would be very difficult to include a word with an x into the poem. Hardly anything I read or write has an x in it. 🙂 The rest of the things in your list are of interest to me too though, especially the waterfalls.

      • X is a more probable letter than either Z or Q. Yet he managed to use two of both of them. If you use Fenn’s personal letter frequencies as in TTOTC he uses X at about the normal rate. He only uses Q at 2/3’s the normal rate. Yet in the poem he uses Q’s at 4.5 times the normal rate. He could easily have used two X’s if he wanted to. “The building is on fire. We’d better exit”, he expeditiously exclaimed!

        Here are the “normal letter frequencies”.

        Here are Fenn’s personal TTOTC letter frequencies. You can see that he appears to shun Q’s. IN the 147 pages he used 68 q’s. That’s roughly one q for every two pages. Then in the 601 characters of the poem two of them were q’s. In the poem he uses Q’s at 5 times the rate he uses them in the book. In the poem he uses w’s at a rate 1.35 times that in the book.

        The first colum is the character without regard to uppoer/lower case. The second column is the number of times that character was used in TTOTC. The third column is the second column divided by the number of characters in TTOTC (104097).

        C # fraction

        a | 8908 | 0.0855740319125
        b | 1710 | 0.0164269863685
        c | 2331 | 0.0223925761549
        d | 4850 | 0.0465911601679
        e | 12602 | 0.121060165038
        f | 2343 | 0.0225078532523
        g | 2324 | 0.0223253311815
        h | 5846 | 0.0561591592457
        i | 6925 | 0.06652449158
        j | 231 | 0.00221908412346
        k | 1082 | 0.0103941516086
        l | 4379 | 0.042066534098
        m | 2933 | 0.0281756438706
        n | 7206 | 0.0692238969423
        o | 7937 | 0.0762461934542
        p | 1669 | 0.0160331229526
        q | 68 | 0.000653236884829
        r | 5452 | 0.0523742278836
        s | 6219 | 0.0597423556875
        t | 9790 | 0.0940468985658
        u | 2984 | 0.0286655715342
        v | 887 | 0.0085208987771
        w | 2948 | 0.0283197402423
        x | 143 | 0.0013737187431
        y | 2265 | 0.0217585521197
        z | 65 | 0.000624417610498

        Number of letters = 104097

        • 🙂 I find it much more interesting to concentrate on the words Forrest used in the poem, which have SO many different meanings, than to speculate on why he didn’t use a word with an x. What does interest me about that letter is Forrest responded in an interview that he “didn’t put an x on the map”. Now why did he say that!? There may very well be an x somewhere that’s important, but it doesn’t bother me that it’s not in the poem.

          • CJ-
            There is a simple answer to the question about why he said that. I know this because I was in his office when he initially made that response…(he made it several different times including at the book signing)
            He said that because some searchers were saying there was probably an “X” on that map somewhere. One searcher said it as if it were fact…Forrest made that statement in order to quell the rumor that there was a hidden “X” on that map…

          • MY map has an X on it with a 24 next to it about a half mile from a nonexistent highway that Fenn told my daughter he’d taken.

        • Holy cow John-
          Did you keyboard enter the entire book…or scan the individual pages?
          Either way…lotta work…

          • I scanned the book. I thought everyone did. The program to count the letters took about 20 minutes to write. It wasn’t really much work. This stuff doesn’t figure much in my “solution”.

        • John Brown-
          Excellent date. I think the solve in The Gold Bug had some sort of frequency count. I haven’t read the whole story yet.
          When I heard the word architect associated with this poem I started looking for a Golden Ratio aspect to the structure. Decided it was way above my capabilities and time.
          Thanks for the numbers.

          • Frequency counts are just a standard cryptanalysis tool. I don’t believe that Fenn encrypted with anything like a standard method but it’s fun to consider. If you really wanted to get into this you need to look at the frequencies of doublets and triplets and so on but you wouldn’t any statistical power. I do think that Fenn has probably hidden information in the structure of the poem. He chose the line count, the stanza count, the rhyming scheme, the number of words per line, the iambic meter.. The two spots where he broke the meter were deliberate. He did not write but “architected” this poem. In my humble opinion you’re not being wise if you ignore the structure of a poem whose own author describes it that way.

            I’ve run that letter counting code on TTOTC, TFTW, Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer. There are substantial deviations between TTOTC and TFTW.
            THere are less pronounced differences between Finn and Sawyer.

            In Finn, Twain had an excess of J’s and K’s (not surprising. They’re both rare letters and in the main character’s names). They’re also in excess in Sawyer but not to the extent as in Finn. Twain used Q’s at .44 the normal rate in Finn and .62 in Sawyer.

            In TTOTC Fenn used Q’s at 2/3s the normal rate but in TFTW he used them at about the normal rate.

          • Love your analysis John Brown. Been down some of the same holes, but not half as accurately. Keep it up!
            Three things to keep in mind:
            Sam Clemens had an editor (of sorts) and publisher to answer to — the evenness of letter counts could be due to their business-minded hands in the work.
            And b, those proper names were fictional- inventions of a genius of creativity. Huck’s ‘real’ name was Tom, Tom’s ‘real’ name was Sam (or Will or John, depending on who you believe).
            C. Huck Finn was also written right on the heels of TomSawyer, if not concurrently. FF’s 2 works had a couple years or more between.

            Fwiw 😉

            Signed with Luck,
            Lord Arthur Scoresby

          • Mapsmith: are you sure about when Sawyer and Finn were written? You’re saying they were written at almost the same time but they were published 8 years apart?

            I also ran my script on Connecticut Yankee in King Author’s COurt and found statistics that were similar to those in Finn and Sawyer.

            I only have those TTOTC and TFTW of Fenn’s to consider. It seems like a fairly large change in his statistics but I don’t think that in and of itself will help find anything. WHat it says to me is that coupled with his “poem was architected” statement that the structure of the poem is important.

    • Mapsmith, have you thought of a waterfall in the terms of the stream being still and then hits rocks and causes the riffle? I think I recall reading this in the books but don’t recall which one .

    • If no one else said this I’d add the selected use of contractions in the poem to the list of fennisms. Sometimes he combines words with an apostrophe other times he doesn’t.

      • I don’t mean to question your remark regarding his use of contractions, but I personally believe he does so to maintain proper English structure and rhythm to the poem. Listen to how the poem sounds, without the contractions and you will see what I meant.

        • Sure it reads well as written – I agree. And it’s “off” when you change his words. But maybe that’s because the words were chosen to fit this current structure and flow. 😉

          IMHO he could of easily written a poem that flowed well, delivered the same clues and intent but not used a single contraction.

          For example the first line:
          As I have gone alone in there

          Could have just as easily of been
          Because I’ve gone alone in there

          His poem flows well and maintains “proper English”, because of the words he has chosen. He has chosen to use contractions. He’s the author. He wasn’t forced to use them because of “proper English”. But again that’s my opinion.

  2. I like how Mr. Fenn uses different words which have the same meaning. Like “Begin it where the Warm Waters Halt”…When he could have said “Start it (TTOTC) where the Warm Waters Stop” It makes one think why would he would use a military term versus a civilian term, Halt versus Stop. Did anyone tie the where the Grayling Creek excursion started at the Parade Rest Lodge. Maybe I am reaching a little bit too much…but if you have 15 years to tweak your poem, I am sure each word Mr. Fenn has used has special meaning. I also think the word “Brown” might be the word that Mr. Fenn used to reference many things. Brown could mean “German Brown, Grizzles, Buffalo, etc… Does anyone else think like I do? Just curious. Please let me know what you think.

    • GORDON

      It’s good that you see that, but remember, it is only one aspect of his life. Review TTOTC and start thinking of the other aspects of his life and I assure you, that you will begin seeing other clues in a brighter light.

      After so much time reading this poem, I find it is a life story of sorts. I can just see him chuckling at the end of each line as he wrote them. Believe me, he really had a fun time putting this together. And he is still enjoying us searching for it.

      • Mr. German Guy,

        You are correct…I wanted to keep my initial response general… I have spent an infinite number of hours studying the poem and Mr. Fenn. I just wanted to see if there’s anyone else who has the same mindset as I do in attempting to work out this poem which Mr. Fenn has meticulously engineered. I wish I could go on Jeopardy and answer all questions about Forrest Fenn! I’ll take Forrest Fenn for 1-3 million for a true “Daily Double”! Alex

  3. I, at one point, thought brown was an allusion to buffalo. In nm, and all over, reservations are currently trying to bring back the buffalo. They are actively mating and preserving buffaloes, as it is a pretty substantial source of reservation revenue. Without many of the casinos many of the reservations would be much more destitute, so as a secondary income many pueblos are exploring this avenue.

    • Underdog,

      Thank you! I went back to my initial thought and after some deductive reasoning I have come up with a logical answer to this clue. I will now have to evaluate how it falls inline with the sequence of the rest of the clues. Again, many thanks!

      • Thanks water, I’ll save you the time. Now if Dal will just take the time to read it, perhaps he will glean the compliment I gave him.

        If (by Rudyard Kipling)
        If you can keep your head when all about you
        Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
        If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
        But make allowance for their doubting too;
        If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
        Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
        Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
        And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

        If you can dream — and not make dreams your master;
        If you can think — and not make thoughts your aim;
        If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
        And treat those two imposters just the same;
        If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
        Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
        Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
        And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools;

        If you can make one heap of all your winnings
        And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
        And lose, and start again at your beginnings
        And never breathe a word about your loss;
        If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
        To serve your turn long after they are gone,
        And so hold on when there is nothing in you
        Except the Will which says to them: “Hold on!”

        If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
        Or walk with kings — nor lose the common touch,
        If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
        If all men count with you, but none too much;
        If you can fill the unforgiving minute
        With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run —
        Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
        And — which is more — you’ll be a Man, my son!

        • Thanks, Special,
          My scan through the glass didn’t turn out well, and I didn’t want to tear into the 100- year-old paper backing on the frame to remove the glass. Nice picture—pine trees, campfire, and canoe on lakeshore.

          • special-
            Thank you for the compliments..all of them..
            I know very little about poetry. It was always something forced upon me by nuns who had no idea what makes boys tick. So I am preordained to dislike all poetry that has no purpose other than language linguistics. In spite of this I did have a favorite poet when I was a kid…Cassius Clay. I still get a kick out of watching him present his poem while Liberace plays the piano in the background…a very unlikely duo..

            “This is the legend of Cassius Clay,
            The most beautiful fighter in the world today.
            He talks a great deal, and brags indeed-y,
            of a muscular punch that’s incredibly speed-y.
            The fistic world was dull and weary,
            But with a champ like Liston, things had to be dreary.
            Then someone with color and someone with dash,
            Brought fight fans a-runnin’ with Cash….”

          • @ Special — I love old things. This was in the family attic.

            @ Dal — good memory.
            One of my kids absolutely refused to write a poem for junior high English until it came down to threatened detention.

          • Dal, you’re welcome…ANYTIME.
            I have never heard that poem, cool.

            I am not into poetry that much but Forrest’s poem sure has me occupied. 🙂

  4. Halt is like a form used to come to a stop or slow down BUT continues. Stop in other hand stays in its position like yield vs stop Begin it where warm waters Halt . Where we start the warm water goes into a place where it yields a bit until it gets sent down the canyon. And that’s why warm waters halt and canyon down is 1 clue

  5. Gordon, I am a teacher in Redford, Michigan. My Grade 6,7 & 8 students have been working on the poem for the last two years.
    Some have followed your path. I was alone last June searching for three days in the Santa Fe area. It is one thing to search with books and the internet but from ground level the words take on a new meaning altogether. I was followed by the same vehicle twice on my excursions. So the kids must be on the right track.

    • I have one thing to say, since I have been in the military same as Forrest and I would like to think with all the studying I have done of him, I think NM is not the right place in time frame of his life for the treasure to be there.

    • Ms. Ruth, have some of your students started using google earth? I know exactly what you mean…it’s a lot different when you put boots on ground or you are in the cold and the wood…

  6. #1
    As I have gone alone in there
    And with my treasures bold,
    I can keep my secret where,
    And hint of riches new and old.

    So hear me all and listen good,
    Your effort will be worth the cold.
    If you are brave and in the wood
    I give you title to the gold.

    Has anyone seen the pattern here?
    rhyming pattern bold/cold old/gold
    As I have gone alone in there. Hear me all. alone / all = opposites
    bold / brave = bold definition is showing an ability to take risks; confident and courageous. close to brave
    I can keep my secret where? in the wood?
    hint of riches new and old / title to the gold?

  7. I wonder if anyone has the data on Forrest’s book sales??

    I would like to see how many copies of each of his books are sold by year since the beginning.

    Why is this important?
    Say he only sold 2,000 copies total of books 1-7, then writes TTOTC and sales say 70,000+ This would support a theory that the treasure is in New Mexico.

    • He can hide it in another state and still help the economy in NM and he knows that! That theory is garbage.

      • The theory is based on expectations. If your not independent in the arts then you won’t be able to walk in the shoes of Forrest the writer and understand the psychology behind it. But like I always say feel free to search above NM!

    • I don’t follow your logic, selling 70,000 books of the TTOTC means his marketing efforts are paying off and more people are getting the message! Mr. Fenn will definitely leave a Legacy for others to admire and hopefully emulate in his footsteps.

  8. Could someone please direct me to where I may find the interview where ff mentions 10,200? Thank you.

    • True West Magazine, December 2013, Vol. 60, #12.

      Page 10, “Forrest Fenn Treasure Update”:

      “When we picked up the check and begged for another clue, he said, “Sure. The treasure is hidden below 10,200 feet.”

  9. The poem appears to be visually pleasing when centered on the page.
    Please let me know if my counts are wrong.

    1st stanza-25 words
    -First sentence 23 letters
    -Last sentence 24 letters

    2nd stanza-27 words
    – First sentence 26 letters
    -Last sentence 24 letters

    3rd stanza-27 words
    -First sentence 29 letters
    -Last sentence 26 letters

    4th stanza-29 words
    -First sentence 31 letters
    -Last sentence 28 letters
    5th stanza -29 words
    -First sentence 20 letters
    -Last sentence 26 letters

    6th stanza -29 words
    -First sentence 24 letters
    -Last sentence 22 letters

    With the poem centered on the page… the poem visually and figuratively appears to build to the climax of the poem… “Just take the chest and go in peace.”

    No solves in what I just typed (that I know of). Just wanted to comment on the perfection in which he put into inviting us to TTOTC.

    I do not think the word and letter count are coincidence.

    As far as the missing “X”… You cannot have a treasure hunt without an “X”. It is up to us to find it.

    • By word and letter count I mean the way the word and letter count go up as you read down the poem.
      Should have clarified.
      I am not referring to any magic numbers today.

      • and by “sentence” you mean “line”. Most people are referring to the chunks of text that end with a period (and question mark) as the “sentences”.

        • You are absolutely correct. I apologize to all.
          I was just focused on the count…No excuse.
          Unable to change it now.
          I will try to pay more attention to detail.

    • This is kind of ugly and I’m counting characters like commas, periods, etc, along with the letters. The output should be self-evident.

      python poem2
      Name of the file: poem2
      [‘As’, ‘I’, ‘have’, ‘gone’, ‘alone’, ‘in’, ‘there’] 7
      As 2
      I 1
      have 4
      gone 4
      alone 5
      in 2
      there 5
      [‘And’, ‘with’, ‘my’, ‘treasures’, ‘bold,’] 5
      And 3
      with 4
      my 2
      treasures 9
      bold, 5
      [‘I’, ‘can’, ‘keep’, ‘my’, ‘secret’, ‘where,’] 6
      I 1
      can 3
      keep 4
      my 2
      secret 6
      where, 6
      [‘And’, ‘hint’, ‘of’, ‘riches’, ‘new’, ‘and’, ‘old.’] 7
      And 3
      hint 4
      of 2
      riches 6
      new 3
      and 3
      old. 4
      [] 0
      [‘Begin’, ‘it’, ‘where’, ‘warm’, ‘waters’, ‘halt’] 6
      Begin 5
      it 2
      where 5
      warm 4
      waters 6
      halt 4
      [‘And’, ‘take’, ‘it’, ‘in’, ‘the’, ‘canyon’, ‘down,’] 7
      And 3
      take 4
      it 2
      in 2
      the 3
      canyon 6
      down, 5
      [‘Not’, ‘far,’, ‘but’, ‘too’, ‘far’, ‘to’, ‘walk.’] 7
      Not 3
      far, 4
      but 3
      too 3
      far 3
      to 2
      walk. 5
      [‘Put’, ‘in’, ‘below’, ‘the’, ‘home’, ‘of’, ‘Brown.’] 7
      Put 3
      in 2
      below 5
      the 3
      home 4
      of 2
      Brown. 6
      [] 0
      [‘From’, ‘there’, “it’s”, ‘no’, ‘place’, ‘for’, ‘the’, ‘meek,’] 8
      From 4
      there 5
      it’s 4
      no 2
      place 5
      for 3
      the 3
      meek, 5
      [‘The’, ‘end’, ‘is’, ‘ever’, ‘drawing’, ‘nigh;’] 6
      The 3
      end 3
      is 2
      ever 4
      drawing 7
      nigh; 5
      [“There’ll”, ‘be’, ‘no’, ‘paddle’, ‘up’, ‘your’, ‘creek,’] 7
      There’ll 8
      be 2
      no 2
      paddle 6
      up 2
      your 4
      creek, 6
      [‘Just’, ‘heavy’, ‘loads’, ‘and’, ‘water’, ‘high.’] 6
      Just 4
      heavy 5
      loads 5
      and 3
      water 5
      high. 5
      [] 0
      [‘If’, “you’ve”, ‘been’, ‘wise’, ‘and’, ‘found’, ‘the’, ‘blaze,’] 8
      If 2
      you’ve 6
      been 4
      wise 4
      and 3
      found 5
      the 3
      blaze, 6
      [‘Look’, ‘quickly’, ‘down,’, ‘your’, ‘quest’, ‘to’, ‘cease,’] 7
      Look 4
      quickly 7
      down, 5
      your 4
      quest 5
      to 2
      cease, 6
      [‘but’, ‘tarry’, ‘scant’, ‘with’, ‘marvel’, ‘gaze,’] 6
      but 3
      tarry 5
      scant 5
      with 4
      marvel 6
      gaze, 5
      [‘Just’, ‘take’, ‘the’, ‘chest’, ‘and’, ‘go’, ‘in’, ‘peace.’] 8
      Just 4
      take 4
      the 3
      chest 5
      and 3
      go 2
      in 2
      peace. 6
      [] 0
      [‘So’, ‘why’, ‘is’, ‘it’, ‘that’, ‘I’, ‘must’, ‘go’] 8
      So 2
      why 3
      is 2
      it 2
      that 4
      I 1
      must 4
      go 2
      [‘And’, ‘leave’, ‘my’, ‘trove’, ‘for’, ‘all’, ‘to’, ‘seek?’] 8
      And 3
      leave 5
      my 2
      trove 5
      for 3
      all 3
      to 2
      seek? 5
      [‘The’, ‘answer’, ‘I’, ‘already’, ‘know,’] 5
      The 3
      answer 6
      I 1
      already 7
      know, 5
      [“I’ve”, ‘done’, ‘it’, ‘tired,’, ‘and’, ‘now’, “I’m”, ‘weak.’] 8
      I’ve 4
      done 4
      it 2
      tired, 6
      and 3
      now 3
      I’m 3
      weak. 5
      [] 0
      [‘So’, ‘hear’, ‘me’, ‘all’, ‘and’, ‘listen’, ‘good,’] 7
      So 2
      hear 4
      me 2
      all 3
      and 3
      listen 6
      good, 5
      [‘Your’, ‘effort’, ‘will’, ‘be’, ‘worth’, ‘the’, ‘cold.’] 7
      Your 4
      effort 6
      will 4
      be 2
      worth 5
      the 3
      cold. 5
      [‘If’, ‘you’, ‘are’, ‘brave’, ‘and’, ‘in’, ‘the’, ‘wood’] 8
      If 2
      you 3
      are 3
      brave 5
      and 3
      in 2
      the 3
      wood 4
      [‘I’, ‘give’, ‘you’, ‘title’, ‘to’, ‘the’, ‘gold.’] 7
      I 1
      give 4
      you 3
      title 5
      to 2
      the 3
      gold. 5

    • This information is good. Safety Joe! There is a number here not mentioned. I Think it is important. I am not going to tell you what it is. I think it is a number that is key. The number is mentioned here, but its not in the number of letters. Can you guess what number I am thinking? Its not 9, I will tell you that.

      • Opps, What did I say? Oh OK…The number is mentioned, but it is not the amount of letters. But it is important. What could the number be? Be a Key!

    • hmm – I did it by syllables. Each line has 8 syllables except line 2 not far but too far to walk (7) and line 20 I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak (9).

  10. When and where did FF say it was at least 300 miles southwest of Toledo. I know that Dal has written this off as a non-clue, but if he really said southwest, not just west, then it seems helpful to me. If you draw a line west from Toledo to the Rockies you end up below Casper Wyoming. So if it is South of Toledo and North of Santa Fe, doesn’t this clue narrow it down a bit? Or perhaps I’m missing something obvious, my brain feels like mush from thinking so hard on this for so long.

    • Michele-
      Forrest has said both West and Southwest..
      So what can you make of that?
      Forrest himself said it was originally just an off-handed remark when someone once pressured him for a clue…
      It’s meaningless…I am certain..

      • I listened to the interview and I can assure everyone with 100% certainty that he was joking with the reporter when he said it. In case no one was noticed – he does have a sense of humour!
        The Wolf

      • Forrest said it does not mean much. What I heard in this is it might mean a little, or it could be a lot and he is back peddling. So too say….

        • Southwest of Toledo, in the Rockies, North of Santa Fe means that the treasure is in the Rockies below Casper Wyoming and above Santa Fe. Seems like it could mean a lot if taken serious. I don’t think he would give a falsehood even if he were just joking. West of Toledo doesn’t mean much because we already know it’s in the Rockies, but southwest gives it a lot more meaning. Am I wrong?

          • I debated about whether to take that remark about Toledo seriously too and finally had to discard it as I couldn’t make it work with all the other hints he seems to have given out, written in his books, and with my interpretation of the poem. It bothered me for a while though! 🙂

  11. The blog seems a little flat these days (must be the winter doldrums), so I’ll ask a question to get some conversation going.

    Does anyone think they have an airtight interpretation of the poem…just one…that keeps them up at night, and therefore plans to make THE trip this spring to see if they’re right?

    • Yes I do. Been working on the same interpretations for 2 years now. I will be making my 4th search attempt after the thaw. Finally l have tweaked my solve that affords me a fair amount of confidence. BUT I’m still uncertain (as most folks) until I can get back out in the wood and check my theory. And no it doesn’t keep me up at night.

    • Absolutely! I’m trying to get there BEFORE spring. The only real question is, will the dynamite needed to get into the frozen ground set off the seismic sensors placed in the ground nearby? Apparently, there’s a FAULT located nearby “my” spot and researchers want to keep an eye on it. Mind you, it’s not MY FAULT or YOUR FAULT but crap does hit the fan now and then and we all get to pay for it. I’m just kidding about the dynamite, btw…I hope.

    • “Thinking” and Knowing are very different. The one who discovers the chest will be confident and know without any hesitations or doubt.

      • Tons of delusional people are confident. Some KNOW that they went to the correct spot and the chest was gone. Etc. Yet Fenn claims to know that the box is still where he put it. False confidence is no substitute for thinking.

        • John Brown – I’m not sure I can agree with you. If the searcher is not confident with their chase…what would be the point to even try?

        • Yes, I have one thought about a spot, that I can’t get out of my head. And I am responding below the ‘Home of Brown’, so I must be right. Or Neigh. Good Luck to all delusional or not.

    • Everyone believes they have solved the poem, otherwise…why search? I felt I had the poem solved in each of my 10 searches across NM, CO, WY, and WA. Therein lies the rub with this puzzle. Unlike most puzzles, like a Rubiks Cube, you know when you have it solved. Not so with Mr. Fenn’s poem. Searchers have proven that there are literally thousands of “possible?” solutions. The poem has driven me to buying lottery tickets as I think my odds are better, but not nearly as enjoyable. I had a great time on all my searches. Here is the amazing thing. Many of my searches actually matched the stories in the book as well and I recall how Mr. Fenn stated that the book pretty much “wrote itself”.

      • Windsurfer-
        I only believed I had the poem solved one time. That was the very first time I went out to unhide the chest, almost three years ago. Since that time I have gone out for three other reasons:
        1. I felt it was possible that I had part of the poem solved and hoped that being in the area where the poem led me would reveal more clues.
        2. I didn’t really have any solution but I felt that being in a place that was special to Forrest, that he had written so warmly about, might reveal something to me that would help me form a solution.
        3. In my experience attempting to decode the poem I learned things about the west and its people that intrigued me. I wanted to see the great western stage where these historic moments played out and understand the remarkable characters that breathed life into the intriguing stories. Sometimes this experience alone gave me ideas for solutions as I connected dots that may or may not have been in Forrest’s plan. This was such a rewarding experience for me that I have continued exploring the stories of the west. Not all are related to the treasure.

        My point is that there have been several Fenn related reasons for venturing into the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe, beyond having an actual solution for the poem that needed testing. I find myself enjoying the hunt on many levels not the least of which is learning…sometimes about Forrest and always because it’s fun…

        • I’ve been out something like 60-80 days. Really I have no idea except I started searching this past Memorial Day and then have gone out every chance I’ve had since then. There was only one period of about a 3-4 days where I thought I had it solved. I’ve flipped rocks a few times but that was out of desperation more than belief that I’d solved the poem. I dug holes w/ my bare hands 2 times that I can recall. Once was when I stumbled a cross a pretty cool cave but the search spot where I found the cave was exploration. I pretty much consider everything I do exploration these days. I’m trying to find certain things. I take a good deep-penetrating metal detector and I use it when I find candidates but I’m pretty sure that I haven’t found the things I’m actually looking for. It’s hard to be sure of anything with the snow. It’s hard to identify what you’re seeing. I’ve taken a break for the past few weeks.

        • dal,

          I am with you 100%!! It is fun and you learn a lot. Not only about history, but yourself. I simply enjoy any time I spend in God’s land of the outdoors. I actually mostly enjoyed touring the museums in the Santa Fe plaza and the Sanctuario de Chimayo (Forest’s Operation Arc Light?…Really!?) learning the history of NM. Many things I did not appreciate as a youth growing up in Los Alamos.

          Thank you for keeping it all sane and relevant.

  12. This whole syllabus counting needs to end. I sent the data to a few of my cryptologist and they found no data. Let’s close that book.

    Anyone who results to that kind if solve is more desperate than using their imagination.

    • Who are your “cryptolgist” ? It’s a dead field. Public key encryption is adequate for all needs. That being said, the fact that someone who knows something about WWII era cryptology found their usual tools inadequate is utterly unsurprising. That does not imply that there is no information within the structure of the poem.

    • With the word and letter count I posted earlier I was only trying to show how the poem builds to the point when the treasure is taken in the 16th line. It is structured to present the information so that the tension mounts when read and yet is also visually structured to have a larger appearance as it flows to the end of the fourth stanza.
      The last two stanzas start with “So…”. It’s like he already said what he had to say but needed to add extra information to identify who he is and assist the readers with more precise hints to the location.
      “So why is it that I must go and leave my trove for all to seek?” Why go and leave? How does line 20 fit into the answer(s) to go and/or leave?
      “So hear me all and listen good” is such an interesting line. With this line he is able to have a voice in the future that will be clear… but I constantly wonder if “me” means him (f).
      I think the chest can be found without the last two stanzas but with difficulty.
      Knowing how many letters are in a line is probably pointless BUT I would rather know them than not know them…Just in case.
      Maybe understanding the structure of the poem will help keep the (my)imagination in check.

      And yes he must be having a lot of fun watching so much effort being put into his poem.

      • I don’t rule out much of anything. Fenn has said that the discrepancy between the book and website versions of the poem (answer vs answers) is an innocent typo and immaterial. That does not mean that there is no information encoded within the structure of the poem. Old school (i.e. WWII era) cryptology considers stuff like the conditional probability of a third letter after a two other letters and stuff like that. With a short piece of text such as the poem it is hard to get statistical significance simply because it is erh, short. When Turing, Kullback, and all those brilliant guys cracked the German codes during WWII they had the Engima machines that the Germans had built, they had messages that came in everyday that had patterns in them (dates, weather, …). They had a ton of stuff to use beyond just symbol sequences. As I said, that does not mean that there isn’t information encoded within the poem’s structure. Is it significant that there is no letter “x” in the poem? Based on pure letter frequencies it is not statistically significant. However, that does not mean that it is not significant that the 24th letter of the alphabet which is traditionally used for “marking spots” is the only letter NOT used in the 24 line poem. It just means that Fenn is nobody’s fool. He said that he “architected” rather than wrote the poem.

        Regarding effort: it took about 2 minutes to write the python script that spat out those counts. I did that because you asked people to check your numbers. My numbers don’t need checking so you can compare them to yours. You’ll have to do the dirty work of correcting the places where I counted periods, commas, etc as part of words but that is easy.

      • Safety Joe,

        I love how you are dissecting the poem…But I think you are going about it the wrong way. You need to dissect the words and the meaning go the words and remember FF is a meticulous planner and it took him 15 years to get the poem worded exactly how he wanted it. Each word selected has it’s special meaning.

  13. After reading everyone’s opinions on posting full solves I have decided to cease and desist. Spoon’s well written and direct comment on part 3 made sense to me…

    • OK but some of the other comments made sense too. If you give away a (solved clue) then things will start to get crazy. Please be careful.

  14. clue number four…
    From there it’s no place for the meek, The end is ever drawing nigh; There’ll be no paddle up your creek, Just heavy loads and water high.

  15. clue number five…
    If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, Look quickly down, your quest to cease, But tarry scant with marvel gaze, Just take the chest and go in peace.

    • That is the only way I can make sense of the 9 clues myself. I don’t use the text blocks to mean that each one is some sort of unit of information. Some of them are less than a unit and some are more.

    • Homer-
      Well…I don’t know…but it’s certainly not there. Maybe it took a sick day…
      But it only matters to people who care about it more than I do. I have never given any weight to counting letters or words or commas or syllables.
      However, awhile back a searcher told me that Forrest was sending morse code by blinking his eyes the way some captured U.S. flyers had done in news footage shot by the foreign press in Hanoi. He was looking at an interview I had shot of Forrest. I have forgotten all my Morse Code and I never checked to see if he was serious…

      • what I do is squirrel away facts. It is a fact that X does not appear in the poem. It is a fact that X is traditionally used to “mark spots” where treasures are hidden. It is a fact that X is the 24th letter of the alphabet and it is a fact that the poem has 24 lines. In and of themselves those facts aren’t worth all that much. But they are certainly worthy of being placed in your squirrel trove of facts about the poem.

  16. LOL-@Dal!
    I deciphred the morse code Dal!!!
    He blinked out…….”Give me more pimiento cheese sammiches”!

  17. To all,

    I came across an old map dated 1857 and it showed the New Mexico area. As I zoomed in on the upper area I noticed an annotation ” BROWNS CHAIN SURVEY”.
    The survey went to Taos and then headed to the NNW. I did a search and the surveyor was Joseph C. Brown.
    I was wondering if he settled down in the area after the survey? Maybe home of the Brown?

  18. Not trying to sound mean or anything to all those folks in the east…but here is a pic from my yard this evening….baa-ha-ha!!

    Speaking of looking for the treasure in the snow…Maybe it’s a good idea…
    The aged bronze chest will look really beautiful against all that white snow….
    Once you dig it out from under five feet of the stuff…
    Once you figure out where it might be when the ground is under 60 inches of frozen water vapor…
    Once you get brave enough to take off your mittens in zero degree temperatures…
    Once you slowly and strenuously posthole into the wood about a hundred yards from your car…
    Are we having fun yet?

    • Dal,

      Nice picture. We’re still trying to get the snow and ice off of the roads.
      The best part of the Carolina’s is the stuff is here a few days and then gone. The temp got up to 50 today. Forecast to get up to 70 next week.
      Nothing could be finer!

      • I truly feel sorry for the rough winter being experienced so many places. 🙁

        In Arizona we are basking in 80 to 90’s. Too bad the chase is not in Arizona. 🙂

    • We have so much snow that the deer are eating twigs off all our trees. A little baby deer was pawing so hard to try and get to the ground because it could not reach the branches. I might just have to go get some hay for them, but then it makes them dependent & not learn how to find food for themselves. Hmmmm what to do??

      • Off Topic-
        In my limited experience providing food for grazing wildlife they do not become “dependent” on what you provide when their usual browse is not available. They will take your hay only until their preferred browse is available and then move on. Deer might remember when things get skinny for them that there was food that magically appeared once by your place and they might come looking but by and large they don’t become dependent on it. The bigger fear that wildlife biologists have is for more dangerous animals like bear that can quickly become acclimated to the idea that where there are humans there is food..and start hanging around picnic grounds and lose their fear of people and then something bad happens…
        But providing feed for deer when their regular browse is not available is only bad if you consider the hand of man interfering in the hand of nature. These hard winters can winnow out the herds. The strongest survive and keep the population in check…
        Some biologists feel interfering in the natural scheme of things is a bad idea…But I know many state wildlife programs that do just exactly what your talking about on a very large scale.
        On the other hand..if you live in an area that is very populated by humans, cars and roads..and also by deer…it might be better to encourage the deer to stay away than to provide hay and become some driver’s worst nightmare…

        • We used to have a large population, but the DNR did a MASS kill off about 5 years ago. They hunted in every illegal way and killed off about 2200 head of dear. They were worried about CWD, but they were not even able to test all that was killed and the meat went to waste as they could not give it away unless tested clear of CWD. Some things I just do not understand.

  19. Does anyone think that “No Place for Biddies” Seems kinda odd near the beginning of this book? No Offence to Forrest, but I find this chapter uninteresting to his life and out of place. Does it contain a secret message? LOL.

    • I don’t know about a secret message, but an early solution of mine had Mr. Fenn honoring 2 women with the hunt. There’s a lot of ladies that had a special place in his heart, in his TTOTC stories along with photos (his two daughters and he and Peggy with the painting) and Tea With Olga=TWO, just pointed me to the idea of 2 special women.

      The story NPFB told me that this type of woman had no place in his chase.

      I even found a “perfect” blaze and X spot related to the theme. Perfect… but empty.


  20. Here in New York, our crocus are somewhere under a 3 foot bed of snow, so I enjoyed your hint of spring picture. Even though this winter has been harsh, there is still beauty in it.

    Thank you

  21. Dal, Mr. fenn has the “X”, he knows e”X”actly where IT is. He has told US all the truth and now WE are paying the consequences. See you in NM in june. Oh, he also left the “Z” out, I wonder “Y”. He is so funny!!!! I still remember my morse code, but the only thing serious is the poem.

    • I am from a place that you, my Earth Brothers, call Cygnus X-1. Or that’s what I’ve been thinking ever since the “UFO incident”. 🙂

      Just kidding… I’m from Salt Lake City.

  22. Off topic; My eldest and his wife added baby girl (Scarlett) to the clan Valentines Day morning, could not be happier !

  23. I am interested in hearing thoughts about why “where warm waters halt” could very well be a hot springs, but I’d also like to hear the argument on why people feel it could absolutely not be a hot springs.
    I realize a lot of searchers use hot springs as their “WWWH”. For my best solution for the poem, I use a hot springs, but have never really said to myself “yes, it has to be a hot springs”.
    Basically, I’d love to hear the arguments for and against using a hot springs for WWWH.

    I look forward to hearing your thoughts……

    • I wouldn’t discount hot springs or reservoirs(where you find warm water fish). Some people discount anagrams and numerology, but how can they? It might be that when someone says it’s not that, or that they are searching a certain state…they are trying to distract. It could also be that Forrest’s stories have nothing to do with the location.

      I’ve always considered other places like Tarryall Colorado for example. I used a fishing clubs hatchery pond as my warm water, because it was actually warm. So I would still believe a hot spring, because I wouldn’t accept it couldn’t be, except if Forrest came out saying it can’t be a hot spring.

      I did search a hot spring in Idaho…I’ve discounted that since lol.

      • Good points, thanks Stephanie!
        I just wanted to make sure that there is no scientific reason that would discount a hot spring as WWWH.
        I won’t discount it as being a possibility until Forrest says to do so.

    • Hot springs halt there upward movement at the surface. Good choice, correct choice in my book.

        • One of my WWWH (all ino of course) is a very specific geyser or hotspring. Another 2 are rivers with ‘warm’ names that both happen to be Actually very warm.

    • UP-
      My opinion is that generally hot springs cannot be WWWH for three major reasons.
      First and foremost, there are very few hot springs where warm water actually halts. Instead it usually spills out over the top and gradually cools..mixing with colder water as it empties into a stream or drains away and is cooled by the air. In other words the warm water does not halt…it simply cools and continues.
      I read what Pieces said in response to your question but for me the place to begin is where warm “waters” halt..not where warm water halts its upward movement and begins moving sideways and downward. I have only found a couple of actual “hot springs” where the water does not appear to leave it’s container..I suppose those would be possibilities but the locations did not work for other reasons. But in order for the first line to be describing a hot spring I believe the water must physically halt at that location..

      The second major reason is the lack of detail describing this hot spring. There are over 5,000 hot springs in our search area. If he had meant a hot spring there would have to be more detail about which hot spring…for instance…Begin it where warm waters balk…or Begin it where warm waters flow… but this is not what it says. The place where warm waters halt is a very precise place…a singular place…not one of 5,000 potential and equally qualified places.
      I know what some think..that the clues to which precise hot spring Forrest is alluding to are in the book…but remember,..Forrest told us that we only need the poem to find the chest. So it would not make sense that you would need the book to tell you which of the 5,000 hot springs he might be talking about.

      Third, is the plurality of the word “waters”. I have struggled with this plurality for a long time. Mostly because it did not apply to any reservoir, hot spring, waterfall, etc that I could come up with. These areas only slowed down a singular stream of water.

      There is also the adjective “warm” he does not say “hot” but instead says warm. Warm implies I can feel comfortable in this “hot spring”. It will not scald me. That narrows the choices down but we are still considering several thousand “warm springs”.

      I have considered many places where warm waters halt as I struggled with the meaning of that first line in the poem. I suspect everyone does. I think that when you finally land on the correct interpretation you will know how poor all the other choices really are. I believe many searchers have come to the same conclusion that I have for what Forrest’s WWWH actually describes. I have recently mentioned in other places in this blog exactly what I believe WWWH actually is. Other searchers have mentioned it as well.

      Now…having said this..I reserve the right to change my mind if I decide I am wrong…lol…

      • You know , those are better than sound reasonings, especially the specific choice of halt (and especially considering the slant rhyme unique to it. )
        Warm waters halt in a teapot. Or a bathtub. Or an extinct geyser.

        Anyone else?:
        Sometimes I wonder/worry if Dal has already found the chest, his ideas are so sharp & smart. And then he’s just extending the thrill by hosting us all here and teasing us with good ideas like these 😉

        • I have seen bathtub written in several post in recent days. Figured I would pass on an interesting tidbit. I was reading an Eric Sloane book in which he writes about the Great Bathtub Hoax. I researched and found that a newspaper article called- A Neglected Anniversary which was written by H.L. Mencken. It does discuss all kinds of false facts about the bath tub (including water temperature). Check it out.
          Also if you research the epitaph “…homely girl” contained in TTOTC you will find a slightly different version written by on other than H.L. Mencken.
          Anyways, in regards to temperature boiling points and freezing points I would keep in mind how pressure altitudes might affect both.
          My objective is to find a location in which numerous warm water sources halt… therefore I could justify the “waters” word (to myself at least).

      • Thanks Dal, I think we should all take your reasoning in to consideration. You make a strong argument. However, it’s not quite enough for me personally to take a hot springs off the list of possible WWWH.

        My understanding is the word “halt” can be a permanent or a temporary stoppage. So I’m not sure I believe that the warm waters need to physically stop, and/or stay in it’s container. Otherwise, it may say where warm waters stop. I also like to think it is possible that when warm waters halt, it does not mean it has to physically stop, but maybe just cease to exist by flowing into cooler waters. Besides, water never stops, or in my opinion, “halts”. Technically, the water molecules are always moving. If you put water in a glass, the water molecules are still moving constantly. Take a glass of water, put some drops of food color in it and go to bed for the night. When you wake up, the color will have spread evenly throughout the water even though nobody touched the glass or stirred the water.
        So the more I think about it, the more I believe we can’t take WWWH to mean the warm water has to physically stop, and stay in it’s container.

        I like to think that if it is indeed a hot spring, having over 5,000 to choose from is a good thing as far as keeping the treasure hidden for a long time. In order to find the correct one, the rest of the clues have to line up accordingly.

        I never gave any thought to the plurality of the word “waters”. I know I have heard that word used in plural before, when talking about a singular body of water. Maybe he’s just referring to water molecules, and not bodies of water. Anything is possible!

        And of course, we all have the right to change our minds and our beliefs as the chase continues and lessons are learned.

        • Water molecules do actually stop at zero degrees kelvin, or 32.018 degrees celsius. I haven’t been able to make anything of it in relation to the clues though, but it is funny the things we learn on this chase.

          • HAHAHA…very true! I honestly knew that and I guess I should not have used the word “never”. I was referring to water that is not frozen…those molecules continue to move.
            Thanks for keeping me in check!

          • You’re temperature scales are messed up. I think you meant 0 Centigrade (Celsius) and 32 Fahrenheit. Altough you are correct that there os motion all the way down to 0 K (i.e. quantum fluctuations) that motion is not of importance here.

      • That’s the problem with not being from New Mexico. Out of staters don’t know how that term resonates with New Mexico fishermen. More to the point warm waters do in fact halt in reservoirs. Go and look at El Vado Reservoir. You’ll see carp swimming in the warm surface waters. The water coming out of the dam is bitter cold. The waters of the Rio Chama below the dam are trout waters.

        • John-
          NM isn’t the only state that has cold water and warm water fisheries. Many states have that division and many dams produce cold water fisheries at their outflows…and I have examined many of those dams and the waters below them.
          I have looked at so many different possibilities over the years I can’t even put a number to them..

          I think a guy can rationalize his way into believing anything he wants to about where warm waters halt but some solutions don’t need any rationalization. They simply are the place where every word in that phrase makes complete sense and even a child can understand it..

          You don’t have to be a fisherman or a New Mexican or a geographer or even a dum jarhead to see how some of the clues can work..the light bulb just goes on and you recognize it as being so much better than everything else you’ve examined…

        • I truly believed for a time that warm waters vs trout waters were the key, but there are too many spots to choose from, not different from Dal’s explanation of why a geyser is not specific enough. I moved on to thinking that warm waters refers to warm water fish, perhaps where the warm water fish are unable to migrate further. Again, too many options. I’m starting to wonder if warm waters halt has anything to do with water at all.

  24. IMO…
    The clues are “timeless”…so what is timeless? If we put it in human perspective, IMO timeless is;

    Historical people, places, and things, and events that have secured a place in Human History forever. This includes political boundaries that may change but can be located historically…or places not yet discovered that will forever have a place in History once they are discovered…

    Geographical or Geological Placenames like Yellowstone Nat. Park or The Rio Grande, etc…

    Literature and Art…especially by “famous” people.

    Man made structures of ANY kind, including dams and bridges…

    Geologically active areas like Super volcanos and steep slopes.

    river courses, hot springs, etc…forests can burn, climates can change, etc…

    If you want something to stay hidden for a long period of time, but eventually you want it to be found…where would you put it?

    1.”in the Ground” …hidden in a cave…covered in rock….buried in the sand…on relatively flat terrain…or high on a canyon wall….not in river bottom, not in water (unless opening is periodically covered and uncovered but chest stays dry…) from fire, floods, and slides…safe from immediate future expansion…


    • I agree Michael. I’ve had strange ideas and was told they are illogical by a certain someone. I think you have good reasoning in this post that people might want to copy and save when looking for new solve ideas.

      As for my take on halt, I believe if something goes from one thing to another as in warm to cold, then that to me could work as halting….because the warm would no longer exist. So I still believe a confluence could be viable and I love the idea behind that. (I didn’t know what a confluence was till Dal described the Rio/Red one)….I was surprised when I learned that trout will only be found in one section of those waters because of the temperature. I know that happens in other places now, but it was a cool fact to learn.

      • Stephanie, I agree with you. WW can halt at a divide or delta. Example: The Mississippi River halts in the lower delta before draining into the Gulf of Mexico. Once again, you are QUEEN of the solves!

    • michael the potential problem i see with this logic is you are perhaps inserting too much of your own arbitrary logic by declaring what may or may not be a worthy candidate for WWH

      what if Forrest chose a WWH that doesnt fit your criteria?

      what are you basing your logic on? what makes the most sense to you right

      but where in this line of thinking are you basing it on leads from the poem?

      why try to decide something in advance of knowing what Forrest is saying in the poem? i dont see how it would help and it can only lead you astray if wrong

      i have a better idea. read and memorize and study the poem. find the clues. if you discover the clues where Forrest tells you what WWH is … then thats what it is.

      if the WWH that Forrest is telling you, doesn’t qualify under your criteria, then , well, it is still WWH.

    • But the chest isn’t safe from fire, it even gets rained on (so this rules out any chance of it being in the water) as stated by Forrest.

      “exposed to the elements”

      • it is confirmed that Forrest himself has communicated

        (1) he wont say whether it is buried or not

        (2) in response to the idea there is open sky above the treasure, he refused to answer

        as far as being exposed to the elements, this idea is not a confirmed statement from Forrest, but comes from Tony Dokoupil in an article called ‘clues for finding Forrest Fenn’s buried treasure’

        you be the judge

      • I think being exposed could still mean in water, because it would be open above it and not covered. Water is an element if it’s rain or in a pond.

      • Not safe from fire would indicate not buried.I dont believe it would be in water, the risk of washing away in flash flooding too high. Exposed to elements? Doesnt say which elements.

        Tony quotes? Not worth listening to.

        • i agree that if it comes from Tony it should be disregarded

          but i notice people continue to talk about these 2 things

          (1) the chest could be scorched by fire (2) it is exposed to the elements

          as if they are something Forrest said

          but Tony D is the only source for this

          • Forrest said it to a reporter about a year back, I believe I saw it on youtube. May still be on there.

          • Both these statements are true enough though, whether direct quotes or a yellow journalists’ words, so long as the Bronze Chest is on earth and not in space. Earthquakes, lava, weather and other unpredictables mean EVERYTHING is exposed to elements potentially and at some point in time. As far as fire, and water, imagine the chest , say, in a cave behind a waterfall- frozen Still in this deep winter, the chest half submerged in a (frozen) puddle: you can’t tell me an exploding fir from a forest fire nor lava from an eruption couldn’t still scorch that bronze.
            All a mute point though. I believe that The Poem is the only map to get the solution. Not interview hints or blogged paraphrasing. Not video whispers. Not photographs and not published book ‘clues’. Not YouTube and not tailing FF around NM.
            The Poem is the key (and contentment).

  25. I agree with your confluence Idea….some others are on my list even though I’m not sure how timeless they are….Geysers, hot springs, “warm” placenames, (like Red River),

    • I liked the confluence idea too and one of my other WWWH ideas was Yellowstone Lake itself as the water never gets above 61 degrees or so in the summer and the avg temp is 41 degrees, even with thermal tributaries. People are not supposed to swim in it because of the cold water and hypothermia could set in within 20-30 minutes. Of course I need to make the other clues fit. 🙂

  26. When the day comes and the chest is found. Would you want to know? Do you feel that the one who finds it has a moral obligation to let everyone else know? Should you be the winner of the race and wear the crown of victory. What would you do? Just a thought, so many people have put allot of effort and time into this search. From what I have read, it seems it is just a matter of time before one of you finds the chest. I have just taken up the chase myself, and I feel so far behind in being apart of this community and just trying to play catch-up.

    • I just found out about the chase a few months ago. I was glad it was winter time when I learned of it so I could get caught up on all the info that is out. I’m still behind, but am having fun devouring what I can as quickly as I can. I think I may be more interested in the solve than the actual treasure. Although I’m sure if I were to find the chest I could easily change my mind. It would probably devastate me not to know the solve if someone where to find the chest. I can’t imagine how others who have been on the hunt the whole time would feel. I would hope if the finder didn’t want to let the rest of us know, Forrest would.

    • NearIndianaJones, while some probably wouldn’t feel any obligation to reveal if they had found the treasure, personally, at the very least, I would contact Forrest and have him relay the message that the treasure had been found. I would not want people to continue spending time and money searching for a treasure that had been found. Now, if I can just find the darn thing!

  27. FF did say that there are trees around it (how close how far?) He did not mention. But just for giggles….Forrest did say to get out there and roll over a few logs and see whats under them. I do think he thought about fire, and other natural happenings.

    Have you ever wondered,
    Where do the rivers flow
    Do they flow forever,
    Where does the water go.
    Do rivers somewhere finish,
    Where does a river start
    Do all lead to the ocean,
    Or do they break apart.
    Someday I’d like to follow,
    A river to its end
    I’d run to the horizon,
    Through fields and around bends.
    Have you ever wondered,
    Where do the rivers flow
    Do they go on forever
    Someday I’d like to know

    Monique Sapla (Poet)

    I wonder though……I mean do rivers remake bends? Do they turn the turns back to straight? And if FF was in Yellowstone for so many years…..I bet it looked the same then as now. Just less people and structures. I mean…I don’t think rivers change….like if a clue was *whoaaaaa..I almost gave up my home of Brown!* Thoughts anyone? For example…All his fishing spots are still the same today as they were in his younger years. Thay have not changed. So my thoughts that it can be river related in a clue. A physical one as a marker, rapid, fall etc..

    • Just to be clear, I don’t think FF’s ever made the ‘roll some logs over’ comment explicitly about the Chase. … Just as general life advice. But many would say that Anything he says has Everything to do with the hunt …. It’s hard not to think so. 😉

      • Yeah….metaphorically speaking is what he was talking about. But…just for grins…maybe it is under a log. When I get to my search you bet I’ll roll over a log or 2. Heck why not. Might find me an arrowhead, Fossil, schlits malt liquor can! What if I go there and see an FF marked on a dead log – Just say “naugh!!!! to easy! That doesn’t fit my solve”.

    • Texas-
      Some change dramatically..just overnight..take for instance the Madison River below Hebgen Lake..Quake Lake wasn’t even there until 1959 when the earthquake happened. Forrest was flying jets in Europe at that the Madison River he fished as a kid between the dam and the Reynolds Pass fishing area is completely different than what we have in that run today..

      The addition of dams and diversions cause major river changes…several have been added in the Rockies since Forrest was a kid causing many streams to change or even disappear under what are now lakes rather than pretty canyons..

      I think an example of natural changes occur in meanders near where streams slow down considerably..again, look at the Madison where it drops into the Madison Arm of Hebgen Lake. Between that point and Baker’s Hole the river twists and turns and forms islands one year that it eliminates the doubles back on itself and cuts off old bends…

      I think rivers, in some places change considerably and unpredictably..year to year..

      • LOL – Dal do you even believe its related to water? Or near water? like within 500 ft of water? Maybe FF went kerpluncking for all we know! But I do believe FF would put it in a place where it is all safe and sound from all the things nature could throw at it. But then again…FF is a gambler – But not an unwise gambler.

        • Texas-
          I do think that some of the “clues” in the poem reference water. But as far as the chest being hidden in water..I find that difficult to gulp..

          From what little I understand about hydrodynamics it just seems too likely to get damaged in stream water…no matter how slowly that stream moves…

          A lake or pond would be safer..we find things all the time on the bottom of lakes that have been there for hundreds of years but I don’t see anything in the poem that would make that a logical conclusion…

          Like many others on this blog, I think it’s more logical that you have to follow or cross a body of water to get to the hidden chest on the other side.

          • I concur! But with that said…my home of Brown is a river. And about 3-5oo feet i am guessing are my other 2 clues that fit in. But its that river change thing that we talked about that got me a lil…how you say….All freaked out on!!!!!!! lol!

    • TG-
      I looked at a few bathtubs…the immigrant trail laundry and bath in Wyoming and the Indian bathtubs further north and the bathtub pass in Colorado..
      Not really because I had any faith in them but out of desperation…trying to understand where warm water could halt and where a child would say warm water halts..
      I gave up on all of them almost immediately.

    • heavy loads and water high level are terms i sometimes use when doing my laundry

      the inside basket of a laundry machine is called a basin and the old wooden baskets they did laundry in were called basins

  28. I have a question about canyon down. Is everyone thinking of this as a physical canyon or have others (like me) thought that the canyon could just be a passage between two tall sides?

  29. Would you want to know?
    Yes, I would want to know. Then I could go back to looking for things that would make some real money……like Bigfoot or UFO’s; and may turn out to be easier to find. 🙂

    Do you feel that the one who finds it has a moral obligation to let everyone else know?
    Nope…….Does a poker player have to show his hold cards after a bluff. Fenn seems to have that taken care of. Would Fenn tell everyone it’s gone?

    Should you be the winner of the race and wear the crown of victory. What would you do?
    I don’t worry about that……too many variables to consider and day dreaming is a distraction from accomplishing the goal.

    • lol Goof-
      Then I could go back to looking for things that would make some real money……like Bigfoot or UFO’s; and may turn out to be easier to find.

      • dal, we have very similar thoughts about the entire chase. I’m not into the numbers, letters and high tech stuff. Just my simple imaginative interpretation of the poem. Like Joe Walsh said “I’m an analog man in a digital world”.
        If I find the treasure I will solicit expert help to find a way to keep it intact to preserve the legend and yet enjoy the spoils the finder deserves.
        To me, it’s not a moral issue for the finder to come forward. It’s a personal decision that may be taunting to say the least, however, that’s why I would enlist trusted help.
        So far my chase has been very easy and fun. I have followed Forrest’s instructions with my best effort. I sent Forrest a few of my interpretations and as I expected there was no response.
        Some day I would love to visit with him. I have lots of questions about collecting, archeology, marketing, writing and books.
        Good luck to all!

    • Thank you for your reply to my question. It has been most insightful to me. Good hunting to you.

    • i dont get the comparison to a poker bluff, what does one have to do with the other

      you cant bluff your way to the treasure, if you find it, its because you have the goods

      if i found the treasure, i dont have to tell anyone who i am or where i found it,

      but if Forrest doesnt know or isnt saying that it is found, and me being aware that people would continue to believe a falsehood and continue searching for something that isnt there, and the pool of people we are talking about is very large, i would feel morally obligated to reveal that the chest has been found

      just my point of view anyways

      • I would take it to Mr. Fenn, like Dal, to get the story on everything inside, and give back the bracelet. Then send Renelle a donation. I would remain quiet, hiding from the feds! Of course, FF would let everyone know it was found. ¥Peace¥

      • @Chris; I see what you mean. Like I said, I don’t give it much thought. It would take a while to decide what to do………It would be interesting to see if Fenn really knows if it’s there or not and what he would do.

        And one would have to consider Dal, if it gets found he wouldn’t have anything to do except sit around and drive his wife crazy. I wonder how much Ms. Dal would pay the finder to keep his mouth shut. 🙂

        • I haven’t given it much thought either. I guess I’d be inclined to wait a year or two.
          I’d want to control the information. Maybe I’d post an anonymous statement unsubstantiated on a forum that I’d found it that no one would believe. That’d be it until I got my ducks lined up for a verifiable claim.

        • Goof-
          I suspect you are correct…and it would be all the worse for me because Ms Dal would not be happy I had not found it. I would be forced to take up something I did not care knitting or collecting baby dolls…

    • Goofy_Old_Guy – I agree 100%. My loyalties are with FF. Besides, who really knows what you would do until your in that moment? It is a waste of time to speculate.

      • Doug the Demoman

        Remember what Forrest said “The deep holes on Canyon Street were filled with water and were fair game, and I used to hide behind a tree and laugh.” “They should have buried Skippy standing up”

        Hard as it may seem a pothole could protect a heavy brass box from damage if it fit nicely or near a large boulder or slab of rock as a back splash. The gradient in the vicinity would likely be more gentle rather than a full blown waterfall. I offer this for your consideration. Many considerations.

        Devoted, Doug

  30. When I find the Treasure. I will of course give the bracelet back to forrest and than I will use the rest to help my handicapped twin sister, who suffers. I will use it, so I can stop working for awhile so I can help my twin. Get her the best doctors in the world and give her the best care I can. That is my goal if I find the treasure.

  31. So who ever finds the chest would the person be considered one of the smartest persons out there what do you guys think

  32. Yes, another county heard from…or my mother’s favorite…peanut gallery, heard that alot! LOL…as in the good-natured, experienced..NOT, but cheap seats, closer to the gods, those that understand the game. AK football and baseball. I don’t need to see the face of a player if he is off his game. Besides, it’s more fun from the benches, cheap seats.

    • True! And the oxygen deprivation in the nose-bleed seats can leave a lasting impression on the thinking processes! Also, nothing like altitude sickness to prevent a fellow from spending a fortune on stadium eats and drinks. Save money all-around! It’s a home run!

  33. “Imagination is better than knowledge.” The person who finds the treasure will be someone who is guided by a great imagination to the knowledge needed to unlock the clues.

  34. I’m going to listen to the Toas interview again……I don’t think he called it luck…..

  35. Deb, your first comment was ‘incredibly lucky’, then you said ‘a bit of luck is involved’

    so which one of those represents your opinion

    • Well Chris it would be incredibly lucky to happen to be familiar with a place that fits the poem exactly and to see something in the book that very few have picked up on and to have the imagination to tie it all together, wouldnt it?

      Now you can blah blah blah on about how its going to be the smartest person around who finds the treasure, or you can start listening.

  36. So, what if a person is not familiar with the place that fits the poem exactly are they still incredibly lucky? What if they are just wise? FF said no one will just stumble onto the treasure. No luck involved.IMO

      • why would they be lucky

        if they are familiar with the place, what is it in the poem or book that lets them know that is the place it is talking about

        thats just the trick isnt it

        i know a few people already ive talked to and they are or were so convinced because they were familiar with somewhere and they were so convinced thats where the poem is talking about

        there are probably wrong, or at least they dont have the treasure yet

        would Forrest really write a book and poem and leave clues so that a person who lives there or nearby and is familiar would easily understand the clues just because they are familiar with that area. i dont think so

        and if you read the poem and book and you see how many people have come up empty after 3 years., it certainly seems that way doesnt it

        • Based upon everything that Forrest has said, and the poem itself, I don’t believe that Forrest’s intent was that success with interpreting the clue solutions is based upon someone’s intimate knowledge of the geography of the Rocky Mountains. I live in the search area, and I don’t think that alone gives me an advantage with solving poem clues over someone in Cali, NY, England, wherever. It’s easier for me to go in the field, but I can’t assume it’s easier for me to solve the poem.

          The familiarity that many may have with a particular state or area may strongly influence their interpretation of the poem, such that it becomes an exercise of shoehorning the poem into a place that seems likely to a person. Many solutions that I have read seem to be based upon this. Rather than approaching the poem as a challenge of mind and imagination to discover solutions to clues, one begins with a list of likely states and places and then the poem is massaged to fit. Being extremely familiar with a place could actually work against you.

          I think this happens with TTOTC and tftw as well. Forrest speaks of many places that he has been in his life, so many people believe one of these places must be the place. Well that’s certainly possible, but I think that starting with the places in the book as solutions to the clues is putting the cart before the horse. When Forrest describes a place in his books, I don’t believe that I would call that a “subtle hint to help you with the clues in the poem.”

          Now, is it a possibility that one individual is intimately familiar with the exact location of the treasure chest, and came to a realization that it’s the right spot because of the correct interpretation of the poem? It is possible, but again, only because they got the poem solution exactly right. And if any person has the poem solution exactly right, it doesn’t matter if they’re familiar with the place or not because it’s precisely confirmed by the poem.

          Now, if the correct poem solution ends up taking you to some place really near your backyard or haunting grounds, that would be extremely fortuitous.

          “Show it to your kids- they’ll get it”- Because they are experts on the geography and/or culture of the West? I think not. It’s that they may have insight and imagination that might just help you avoid the rut of your mental habits, or they may have just freshly learned something that is useful.

          I think it’s pure speculation to try and characterize the potential chest-finder as likely being the smartest, or the most wily, or clever, most homespun, having best knowledge of history, or most like Forrest, etc. If the poem is solved and the chest is found and the finder becomes known, then we might enjoy hearing about that person. It might be the strangest underdog you ever met. Let’s see.


          • Halo, good thoughts as always! 🙂 I am so interested in the solution to see how far off I am! LOL
            I know I am a bit odd in the way I see things, its all good because I am having alot of fun with my strange take on things. 🙂
            Its been so much fun to learn all these things. Maybe thats the real treasure? 🙂

  37. Any thoughts on “In the Wood”? Any chance this could reference an abandoned mine somewhere or would this violate the “not associated with a structure” comment by Mr. Fenn?

    • Open mines are too dangerous a place for the chest. Fenn states you can take your kids with you. Also, I see it as a reference to something like say ‘cottonwood’, etc.

  38. For the most part I agree with you Chris; but what if one of the people you knew actually found the treasure chest because of familiarity with the area, wouldn’t there have been a stoke of luck involved in their finding it? Although little it maybe.
    In any case IMO, you must be wise in order to find the treasure, even if you have found the blaze.

  39. Good Things come to those who Believe

    Better things come to those who are patient

    And the Best things come to those who don’t give up.

  40. IMO, I can’t see ‘luck’ having anything to do with people working on the poem. If someone reads and solves the poem and goes and picks up the chest based on their research, luck is not involved. On the other hand, someone who is not into the search for the chest, who accidently comes across it would fit the case of being lucky.

    I give credit to the one who is gifted in seeing the meaning behind Fenn’s words.

  41. Off subject, in TTOTC, Forrest said “I dreamed the other night that I had been reincarnated as Captain Kidd and went to Gardiner’s Island LOOKING for the treasure.” If he was C.Kidd, then why does he have to go LOOKING when he was the one who buried it? If he dreamed he was Kidd, then Kidd would have just went and got it. No need to look for it..See what I am saying?

    Then, Forrest says “It scared me so badly I was jarred awake and don’t remember whether I found it or not.” Captain Kidd surely would have found it. Is there a message here somewhere? Just thinking.

    • I’ve always felt it could have something to do with an island. You need to cross water to get to an island. Not many people would be on one that could happen on a chest.

      • I agree too Stephanie. Some kind of island…Or a big piece of land with two rivers going around it. Lots of those in Montana. And a few in Wyoming too!

    • Ritt: wasn’t Kidd’s buried treasure only dug up after he was imprisoned? He gave up the secrets of his map, as a bargain for his life, but others actually dug it up. Then he was double crossed…,

      • Yes, but only because, Gardiner, the owner of the island, was ordered by Governor Bellomont to deliver the treasure as evidence at his trail.

        • As I recall they only delivered a very small portion of that treasure to the court, just enough to convict him.
          Research land grants, its a recurrent theme.

          • Right, Deb, but my original thought was that maybe there was a clue in what Forrest said about the dream. After doing a little research I found that Captain Kidd had buried the treasure in a ravine on the island. Maybe Forrest did the same, hid or buried it in a ravine. What say you?

      • really , ok

        ive thot of it as a reference to bronze jars in the next chapter

        im not too convinced or anything tho

        on the part where he says hes dreaming and not sure if he found the treasure on gardiners island,

        ive always thot that hes hinting he didnt find it because his treasure is not hidden on _ _ _ _ – _ _ _ _ _ _

  42. It’s a beautiful day here in Santa Fe. I think I’ll walk up one of the arroyos with my metal detector to help me “get out of the rut of my mental habits”. I love that! Yesterday I found a quarter, LUCKY me!

  43. BTW All, I just finished watching a segment of “How the
    Earth was Formed” on the Rocky Mountains. A phd did an expose on the Rio Grande Rift in which he showed a hot water pool not next to the river but within the footprint of the rift. It was very interesting and fed my query about warm waters halting.

    • I’ve had a WWWH that had to do with the start of the Rio. It was Sunshine Lake. The only real info I’ve found on it, came from a book on the Rio Grande. Did that documentary talk about it by chance?

  44. Food for thought..Could a bridge over a creek or river with a water main up beside it crossing with the bridge be considered “heavy loads and waters high”?

    • Jeff,
      That sounds like at least one of the hundreds of possibilities for the meaning. Good Luck. (Personally, I really don’t think it will work with the rest…sorry) Just my opinion.

  45. Living on the the Trail of Tears here in Tenn. Hiking the Appalachians,old civil war battlefields, James brothers hangout just down the road, I must now head west. This will be fun! See y’all in the Spring!

  46. Doug the Demoman
    Dal, Stephanie, deb, Mapsmith, germanguy, (Stephan the Pantless Pirate) Halogetter and a host of others.

    All of you, are close to getting Mr. Fenn figured out but I want to give you my take. I may be a little impetuous when I offer this as I believe I understand. Follow Mr. Fenns’ Directives as spoken with emphasis In every chapter of the book.
    His subtle clues must be solved to find the treasure. The Poem is the means to the end. Nothing is by accident as I have found. Five times I have been on the trail
    and each time confirms his story themes and directions and yes a little closer each time. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for number six.

    Good Luck!

    • FF quote as noted on this blog under cheat sheet:

      “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search.”

      I assume this quote was referring to TTOTC.

      So I don’t feel like his subtle “hints” must be solved to find the treasure.

      • My understanding is that the book has hints, not clues. The hints are there to help you figure out the clues in the poem.

        • I agree with you UP. I think we all lose sight of just how important those words from Forrest really are. I think many people spin their wheels on old biddies, double omegas, pineapple pies and the like. I believe that the most useful time a searcher can spend in research is identifying WWWH. Of course it’s easy to say and harder to do. Which is why (i think) people gravitate toward looking in the book for clues…the poem is a bugger…

          • Q: Are there subtle hints in the TTOTC book? “Yes, if you can recognize them.” -ff

            To me, I believe “if you can recognize them” possibly means that if you have the correct solve for the poem, and then you re-read the book, you will recognize the hints (since they align with your solve) , and they will act as a confirmation that you are (possibly) on the right track.

            The problem with that is, one can probably find what one thinks are hints or confirmations, even for what could turn out to be an incorrect solve. You’ll think you’re on the right track, when you’re not even close. That why so many of us get confident. Got to love it….

          • I agree UP. My first search had me on an “island” in a river, maybe thinking too much about what I thought was a hint in the book about Captain Kidd. It wasn’t worth the cold! 🙂 Back to the poem.

          • UP and Dal,
            I couldn’t agree more. Even knowing WWWH will only help a bit. Each word is deliberate. There are no shortcuts. I believe FF when he tells us the poem will bring us to the chest.

          • I was the one that mentioned the No Place for old Biddies, chapter. I did not think it to be a solve or anything Dal. I was only putting it out there, because I found the chapter odd. Just wanted to see if anyone had any idea’s about that story…..I know for a fact you only need the poem, I hunted for the treasure for a year. With out any books. So…..I got the books this past fall. And I really enjoying them. A lot. And I listened very closely to what Forrest said about THE BOOK. He said some very important things. Who couldn’t use some extra help. No one has the treasure yet?
            OR DO THEY??????? LOL

      • True you can find the treasure with just the poem but if you dont use the books you miss an awful lot of fun along the way.

        I believe finding the treasure using just the poem makes it harder than it needs to be.But realistically, who only uses the poem? If you read blogs, watch interviews you are not using just the poem. But there are no shortcuts on this journey. 🙂

      • Diggen Gypsy,

        I admire your spunk. You remind me of some of my acquaintences in my long past journeys. I am trying to help some of my blog friends without giving up the ship.
        I will say that your journey seems to be on track and I am not looking in New Mexico.
        If I were you I would look very closely at Stephan the Pantless Pirates return to the blaze. He is the only one that has got it right. It is likely that I will refrain from further
        hint help in the wake of such cyberspace verbiage.
        Just to keep my engines warm I am diligently researching
        the Lost Dutchman Mine and hidden Spanish Treasure in the Superstitions

        Doug the Demoman

  47. How is it going everyone? Well, I went to where warm waters halt I thought was. I only found huge ridges and a semi-frozen river. I did not find the treasure chest. I also went to where the “lava tube” supposedly was and I did not find it. I later found out that the river is too high to see the cold spring. I was told to go when the the lobato gauge was less than 100 cfs. Please be safe out there.

  48. Steph, The documentary did not mention Sunshine Lake. An interesting point was they did an uncontaminated water analysis of the gas and organisms in the water to prove it came from hydrothermal vents. I came away thinking there might maybe numerous warm water “pots” in the region that are not typically identified as warm or hot springs. If any of these are in a canyon they could possible be starting points in the poem.

    • I saw that part of the wall was volcanic and I thought that area could be the meek or where there are rapids. He does show us in his new book that he liked to go rafting. I’m surprised there isn’t more talked about with Sunshine lake. There are so many “Put ins” along the Rio also. You can also find a rock that’s called “olive” something or other. My favorite thing though when looking in this one book about the Rio…here’s what it looks like…

      Is that in rafting terms they actually call some of the water “water high”.

      • Steph,

        Why not consider a stream coming down the side of a mountain and merging with a river in the base of a canyon as the ‘water high’?

        • that is a good way to look at it. My current idea though in my spot is that he’s leaving the water with his boat which is heavy to pull out of the water. I did think when I looked into the Hyde(hide)park area that the lakes above were water high which is a similar idea. I think Hyde park is too close to SF though for the 8.25 miles.

  49. dal, I don’t know where you put it but the saying is, “I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than have a frontal lobotomy” lol

    • RYAN, come back! Everyone else shares info, all the time. Some folks are afraid you might share the right info and they will see that they have been wrong. You could start by sharing which state you believe it’s in. That in it’s self will convince three fourths of the seekers that you are wrong.

      Who in their right mind believes that someone sharing their thoughts is revealing the right solution?

      And who hasn’t read hundreds of blogs hoping for a clue to something they might have missed?

      And who hasn’t at some time thought that they had the right solve?

      • Yay! It’s like sharing a lotto ticket number for tonights Powerball!! Chance are you are wrong anyway!!!

      • Why not just ask him to email you directly instead of suggesting than people who don’t agree with putting full solutions out there “aren’t of the right mind”?

        If you’re asking for his solution, then you must believe you can get something out of it…so I don’t think the “wrong minded” people are as wrong as you say they are.

        BTW, if you remember….Dal said just about a month or so ago that he is CONFIDENT that he knows the first few clue locations and that he got them from people on his blog who have posted.

        BTW 2, Forrest has said at least two parties have gotten the first two clues, and a FEW people have figured out a word that is key. So it seems to me that it’s very possible someone can give out a correct solution.

        But…that’s just my thoughts. I just don’t think I’m as wrong minded as you say.

        I believe Dal would have his email. Maybe he can pass yours onto Ryan for you.

        • Maybe a specific post JUST for full solutions. For those brave or crazy enough to put them up. That way those that don’t want to look don’t have to go there and those that do can.

          It’ll also be an amusing post if/when the treasure is found. Then we can all go back and see who was the closest.

          Dal, what do you think?

          • Additional: When I said wrong I meant that Ryan’s solution is probably wrong.

            I don’t know where “wrong minded people” came from.

            If someone wants to solve the clues on their own more power to them. If/When the treasure is found and that person still wants to solve it all on his own that’s their right (although with the power of media that’ll probably be impossible).

            And here is something for everyone to take with them. Forrest Fenn is definitely not the first to have “hidden a chest and left clues.” He’s just the most recent. So just because someone finds the chest doesn’t mean your treasure hunting days are over. TRUST ME. There WILL be another chase. And like all things, it’ll be even bigger than its processor. And how quickly people will forget about ol’ Fenn and concentrate on figuring out the next one.

          • It wasn’t your post that talked about “wrong minded people”. It was Special’s.

            I think Forrest is one of the most unique people ever. I hope people remember him as not to be defined by the Chase.

        • Steph-
          Did I actually say I got my ideas from people on the blog?
          If I did that was an out and out lie..but please show me where I said that…
          The first few clues that I am “CONFIDENT” about are not ideas that I got from anyone else..
          I think I may have said that I believe others have the same ideas…but that does not mean that I got these ideas from them..

          In fact…I don’t think I’ve ever read these ideas on any blog…but that does not make me think I am the only person to consider them…not at all…these are common sense ideas…that took me three years to put together because I am not the brightest crow in the murder.

          • Dal, Love those collective nouns!
            How about: a sleuth of bears, a convocation of eagles, a skulk of foxes, and an unkindness of ravens. Many more great ones. I need to try to find a way to use one of those. 🙂

          • Dal, just curious, how confident are you with the first few clues now than you have been in the past?

          • I was most confident…like most of us…on my first trip out. I had complete, unmovable trust in my first solution. Of course my ideas were utterly wrong and I did not find it and eventually came to the conclusion that not only was I wrong about WWWH but I was even in the wrong state. Since then I have been stammering around trying to figure out WWWH. I had a couple ideas but I couldn’t convince myself they were really good. So this is the first time I have had any seriously positive feelings about a solution since May of 2011. However…I do not have a solution for the entire poem..only the first three or so clues…So I have plenty of time to prove myself wrong again…

    • Ryan’s story will be published this evening or tomorrow. We decided to make a post…with photos out of it. He has been writing it up the past couple of weeks. Ryan finished it over the weekend but I had other projects to complete before I could start on his story..
      Watch for it!!!
      Ryan’s Story

  50. Stephanie, I’m sure Forrest will be remembered by many even if some just regard it as one of many treasure hunts. I was just quoting Forrest to my children yesterday with “…one should not let knowing a little bit be a substitute for learning more.” And who am I? Not anyone Forrest has ever met, or heard from in any email, and yet he’s being quoted by me. I think he’s done a sure job leaving his mark.

    • I love that Michelle. I do that with my kids too. Forrest has just said so many great things that really make sense to me. I have always wished that these documentary people would focus on who Forrest is rather than the treasure story. I remember growing up and you always hear…you can be president. I never wanted to be president, but heck if someone had told me about Forrest and said I could be someone like him…I for sure would have reached a little farther.

    • Heck no! I bet many people think they know where the treasure is but have to wait until they can go out to search their spot…..including me! 🙂

  51. “This book is my ninth in twenty six years” “This is his eighth book and now he has promised to rest” Did anyone else catch this error or clue in ttotc. The correct answer is 8 or is his bio in the chest the missing book? Could the number 9 be a clue. 9th book 9 when he found the arrowhead 9 clues in the poem. Anyone have more….

    • Pieces-
      This has been brought up before. There are 9 books..
      As far as the number 9 being symbolic..I can’t say..but it seems like a limitless concept to ponder..
      10 books when you count TFTW.

      • Dal
        Is the dust cover of ttotc in error when it says “this is his eighth book”. It even lists the other seven. So how does he come up with nine on page 4 of ttotc. My guess was he added his biography from the chest to get nine. He makes a statement that he liked an author( I think it was JD) because he wrote books and put them in a safe. Just wrote them for himself i guess. The possible clue for me being the missing book in the chest of course associated with nine. This being somewhat enhanced by two other nines of importance. His age when he found his first treasure(an arrowhead) and there being nine clues in the Poem. This, when it seems to have many more hints at least than nine. Just wondering why nine is special ? I do not see how this could be a mistake on the part of ff. Where do you find 8 other books before ttotc. The dust cover lists only 7. I can only find 7 on ff’s website. I am NOT trying to say ff is being dishonest….Can you or someone find a error in my research.

        • This is the list I have prior to Too Far to Walk

          The beat of the drum and the whoop of the dance: a study of the life and work of Joseph Henry Sharp (ISBN 978-0-937634-07-3)
          The African Animals of W. R. Leigh
          Teepee Smoke
          Early American Indian Dolls (Primitive Poster Series), with Mark Mullins (ISBN 978-1-58685-082-1)
          Seventeen Dollars a Square Inch
          The Secrets of San Lazaro Pueblo (ISBN 978-0-9670917-2-3)
          The genius of Nicolai Fechin: recollections (ISBN 978-0-9670917-1-6)
          The Thrill of The Chase a Memoir

          • Thanks, Stephanie! I’m learning a LOT from this chase. I would love to have every one of those books. Maybe one day I can afford to buy them all and I’ll drive all the way to Santa Fe and humbly ask Forrest to sign each one. That would be monumental. 🙂

          • I bought mine online and some are signed to other people lol. I wonder who they are or if Forrest knows them. I should ask him sometime.

            Funny, I went all the way to SF for his book signing from Chicago and didn’t get mine signed. I was too busy doing the livestream and meeting people. It came signed, but I had wanted it signed to me.

          • You’re in Chicago? Now? You are kind of far from the search zone there, Stephanie. ff would not want you to stop searching. teiedn…

          • Yep, North of Chicago by the Wisconsin line. I think Forrest has to take partial blame for my obsession. He kept saying “Keep Searching” when I said I had to quit(not that I would have quit anyway).

        • Forrest now has 10 published books. You will not find all of them on his website. If you look around on the web you will find all ten. Not every one was solo authored by him.

          • Good call on the books Dal.

            Sorry I missed you today – the winter storm advisory kept me out of whatcom Co. Hope your event was good. Heading to MT?

  52. I believe that his ninth is in the olive jar in the chest. My guess is that it will explain the place as to where he hid his chest and why it is important to him is contained in that bio. I too don’t think that he has ever mentioned the place in any of his other books. That would be his final tale.

  53. Maybe he didn’t publish them in the same order he wrote them. Maybe he is or is not counting the one he republished after it was out of print and he found it selling on the internet for a very high price. The story about that is in one of the interviews. Interesting because he had destroyed the original plates and describes how he redid the book. I think he also gave it a new name the second time around, so is that one book or two? Maybe that’s were the difference in numbers comes in.

        • If the number nine is important to your location it may be something to consider. I’d put it at 50% chance its the autobiography.

          • Forrest wrote 9 books. If you count the paper with his bio as a book, then you could say 10 I guess…but I don’t think he counts that.

          • Bingo! Now here’s a good thing to make you think…What if there’s more than one copy of the autobiography?

            I also like to dream about finding the gold as like finding the golden ticket and getting more than just the treasure.

            I know I would give the treasure back to be able to excavate the San Lazar Pueblo site which FF owns.

            I am confident I will not need the gold to be successful…If you look at FF, he became famous because he enjoyed what he was doing and put himself in a position to succeed from whatever life sent his way.

            I am fascinated by FF’s charisma and vigor.

            There is no amount of gold that can buy this type of passion for collecting and confidence in knowing you are doing the right thing for the right reasons!

            My hat’s off to FF!

          • I just read that Brown Trout are way harder to catch than say Rainbow also the bigger ones claim the best hiding spots were they get bigger and even smarter. The thrill of the chase….

  54. I have fished for all types of trout: Rainbows, Cut Throats, Brookies, Browns and I can say Browns really fight you hard and know how to use the river’s current to their advantage. A 1 pound fish can feel like a 7 pound fish. Watch “A River Runs Through It” and you will get a pretty good idea on what it’s like to catch a German Brown.

    • Forrest might find this to be an amazing “coincidence”. I swear I am NOT making this up. I am as proud of my older brother as Forrest is of his. My “fishing” addiction is for geodes and other rocks. My older brother’s fishing addiction is for trout. Sorry if it seems like a shameless plug. It’s not. It’s actually a very prideful plug. My older brother established the fly-fishing guide service out of Robert Redford’s Sundance Resort six years before “A River Runs Through It” was released. He still runs it to this day. He has guided from Alaska to the southern tip of Chile. An entire room of his house is dedicated to just tying flies. 🙂 I would love to go fishing with Forrest one day. Of course, I’ll have to bring my older brother along since nearly all of the times I have been fishing have been with him. His site:

      • JC1117,
        That’s awesome! Has your brother fished the Maddison river? Do you collect agate to make marbles? I am sure FF would be interested in that too! I am curious how he made the marbles while he was in school.

        • I’d have to ask my brother if he’s ever fished the Maddison. I know he drives great distances to fish. He goes wherever he hears it’s good. I swear if he doesn’t fish at least once a week he gets the shakes.

          I’m curious how Forrest made the marbles, too. That must have been difficult. I know how hard agate is to work with. I LOVE agate! I went to Quartzite several times to buy several hundred pounds of polished agate slabs from Brazil that I (we) installed in art glass windows. I hope one day to purchase agate and amethyst cathedral geodes straight from Brazil.

          I have cut many thousands of pieces of agate on my tile saws for installing in windows. My wife and I met in an art glass studio. I was carving (carbide blasting) hundreds of linear feet of grape clusters and leaves in glass for a project installed in Manhattan when we met. She still draws all of the windows for the same studio with CAD software before the windows are built.

          I have many tons of uncut rocks and geodes that I dug by hand over many years…just waiting for a studio of my own. My wife and I dream of that…and my wife wants all of my “treasures” out of the basement!

          I imagine I get the same thrill from cutting open a geode that Forrest gets from picking up an arrowhead or digging in San Lazaro Pueblo. I think to myself, “How long did this geode wait for someone to come along and cut it open to realize it’s beauty?” I still love seeing crystal points and quartz druzy sparkling in the sun. It never gets old to me.

  55. Has anyone considered the meaning of the first stanza? “As I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold,”…by himself, boldly with treasure because it was camo’d…”I can keep my secret where,” …I can hide it in my creels, “And hint of riches new (imaginary caught fish) and old (previously caught fish). He may have began his hiding process by sticking the chest in a creel strung over his shoulder, hid it and returned with another creel (or two) full of treasure. I just pulled out some old pics of my dad fly fishing with two creels criss crossed over his chest to put his “treasures” in. I have one of them still, and it is a reed creel, 14 L x 11″W 8″H. It would certainly hold the chest! He could have posed as a fisherman, and no one would pay him any mind.
    Also, he said a blaze could be anything and named off three things, maybe on purpose. But…what if the first blaze is a geographical location, the second blaze a group of trees and the third blaze the actual initial, say in a tree. This spot could have been a favorite of his as a child and carved his initials in the tree when young, like Lewis and Clark did during their journey west. I say this because, how wise can you be to find the blaze if you are just looking for it, you would more or less stumble on it and be lucky. No “wise” in that equasion. So, “wise” may mean knowledgeable or referring to the Three Wise Men, as in 3 blazes. I know in the poem it is singular. But IMO, just saying.
    And, a biddy can refer to a human woman or female fowl, just fyi…lol!
    And…just because you guys check off spots you already searched…he sai a few have been 500 ft. A second look may be worth the trouble! Maybe broaden your search grid by 5-600 ft! Good Luck!
    ¥Peace¥ (sorry about any typos, using my nook!)

    • Has anyone tied the colophon of the double omega to the blaze as FFs blaze or could the double Omega signify his Dad and Brother’s passing? Omega is the 24th letter in the Greek alphabet meaning the end. Two Omegas would be either two endings or double endings. Could Mr. Fenn possibly be the third Omega?

  56. I’ve saved you guys a lot of time studying the meaning of the double omega in the back of both TFTW & TOTC. I do not own any of FF’s other books to look in the back to see if they are present there also. But, we all know the Omega is the 24th letter in the Greek alphabet meaning “The End”. Researching deeper, I began studying brands, as in horse and cattle and found a few omegas on top of v’s and elongated u’s (like a smile) which meant “The Rocking Rainbow” ranch. Either it is a symbol for ff and his dad’s chosen mode of controlling their fate OR it is the brand for One Horse Land and Cattle Co, FF’s publishing co. In most novels that use the omega at the end, only one is present. For all we know, it could mean “The end of the rainbow”. Imo I don’t think it is related to the chase. If it does happen to be the blaze we are all looking for out there, I’m sure it is stuck in everyone’s mind and we will recognize it when we bump into it! ¥Peace¥

    • It’s also in the back of his Eric Sloan book and I believe he was in Taos. It’s also like two horseshoes and he mentions them.

      • Stephanie
        Are you saying the double omegas are in the back of the Eric Sloan book and do you know if the rest of his books contain the double omegas?

        • It’s just 17 dollars a square inch that I know of. Maybe it’s near a place that Forrest and Eric played horseshoes? Someone once said it looks like the double horseshoes of a horse kicking you. I thought that was funny.

          One thing I haven’t ever found is where Eric lived in Taos. Does anyone have that info? I do know that the time Forrest got cancer he was in Taos a great deal. He threw an 80th birthday party for Fechin’s wife Alexandra. Alexandra has her own grave in the backyard of the Taos Museum/Fechin House. Forrest also bought the Gaspard Mansion in Taos(it’s privately owned now). He started a second gallery there for a short time. I did find Gaspards House and Gaspards Grave.

          I have a section on that has many articles on Forrest and some talk about the Gaspard Mansion. It’s under the Forrest Research thread.

          If anyone has an interest….we’re trying to write letters to nominate Forrest for this award. The more letters the better.

          • Thanks
            Confirmation of what I suspected. The double Omegas are important but probable only ff knows the full extent of there powers 🙂

          • Something I’ve never heard mentioned before, but I had looked into briefly was the fact that Forrest mentions the type font he uses. I thought that was odd. Then I did some research and there’s something about Eric and fonts. I can’t remember now if he designed some fonts or what it was. He does say that Eric is an author of “large note”. I had wondered if the omegas are in a font that was from Eric and maybe there’s something to the name of that font. I never looked to see if the same font was used in 17 dollars….interesting now I think about it though, but he spells dollars in his book dollers. Maybe it is a clue to read his Eric book.

      • Eric Sloane was born in New York City. As a child, he was a neighbor of noted sign painter and type designer Frederick W. Goudy. Sloane studied art and lettering with Goudy. While he attended the Art Students League of New York, he changed his name because George Luks and John French Sloan suggested that young students should paint under an assumed name so that early inferior works would not be attached to them. He took the name Eric from the middle letters of America and Sloane from his mentor’s name.
        In the summer of 1925, Sloane “ran away from home” at 20, having squandered (he felt) his inheritance from his father. Working his way across the country as a sign painter, he created advertisements for everything from Red Man Tobacco to Bull Durham. Unique hand calligraphy and lettering became a characteristic of his illustrated books.

        Sloane eventually returned to New York and settled in the Merryall area of New Milford, Connecticut, where he began painting rustic landscapes in the tradition of the Hudson River School. In the 1950s, he began spending part of the year in Taos, New Mexico, where he painted western landscapes and particularly luminous depictions of the desert sky. In his career as a painter, he produced over 15,000 works. His fascination with the sky and weather led to commissions to paint works for the U.S. Air Force and the production of a number of illustrated works on meteorology and weather forecasting. Sloane is even credited with creating the first televised weather reporting network, by arranging for local farmers to call in reports to a New England broadcasting station.

        Sloane also had a great interest in New England folk culture, Colonial daily life, and Americana. He wrote and illustrated scores of Colonial era books on tools, architecture, farming techniques, folklore, and rural wisdom. Every book included detailed illustrations, hand lettered titles, and his characteristic folksy wit and observations. He developed an impressive collection of historic tools which became the nucleus of the collection in the Sloane-Stanley Tool Museum in Kent, Connecticut.

        Sloane was married seven times. His last marriage, to wife Mimi, lasted from age 54 until his 1985 death in New York at age 80. He died from a heart attack while walking down the street to a luncheon held in his honor. A young woman who was a passer by, saw Sloane go into cardiac arrest as he held onto a parking meter before collapsing to the sidewalk; she telephoned for help from a nearby phone booth. The luncheon celebration being held in his honor marked the publication of his memoir published at age eighty, Eighty: An American Souvenir.
        Eric Sloane (born Everard Jean Hinrichs) (27 February 1905 – 5 March 1985)
        Cornwall Bridge, CT.

      • Sloane’s best known books are A Reverence for Wood, which examines the history and tools of woodworking, as well as the philosophy of the woodworker hope this helps. Stephanie I am in Colorado, but heading home as I have to deal with a wolf on wall street

        • Where is back home? Are you in Wisconsin? Get confused who’s who sometimes.

          I have a bunch of Eric’s books that I bought on Ebay. I haven’t read them yet. I figured if I got stuck and needed an idea for a solution that I’d start reading them. He’s an entertaining author.

    • To all: On the subject of (possible) book/publisher & horseshoe clues, I noticed that the publisher of The JD Salinger work cited by FF in TTOTC
      is LB & co. That’s Little BROWN publishing House, in other words… Their Home, is naturally, in NYC.
      Catcher In The Rye also includes horse hooves /double omegas, I suppose: an older brother who dies, and the thing that Phoebe rides -to be found in /among the Rocky ‘mounts’ of that cyclical ride in the CP zoo….
      Last time I was at that zoo was a few years back. No ride anymore there. but there was one in a different area, just a short horse drawn carriage ride due west.

  57. Thanks JG & Stephanie! Good info from a different angle! Again, don’t know if the double omega is relavent in the Chase. Stephanie, can you confirm if it is the back of “17 Dollars”? If it is, then that would be a publishing aspect, not a specific “hint” for the treasure aspect!

  58. The wolf said on chase chat the searchers that were within 500 ft of the treasure tried to go from clue2 to clue 8 and were’nt aware of the rest of the clues therefor not being able to connect to the spot What do you think???

    • I’d bet a million dollars they were searchers on another treasure hunt. Well…maybe I’m being too cavalier. I’m pretty sure all the Benjamins in my wallet are gone with the wind. And, frankly, I DO give a damn! 🙂

    • I think who ever says that like it’s fact rather than opinion needs pics of herself/himself standing with the treasure before hitting ‘send’ 😉
      There’s no way to number- let alone know which parts of the poem count as clues – until someone finds it first. As Lewis Carroll said ‘that’s logic!’

      • This is true but single clues can be solved without figuring the whole thing out. So if the omegas have to do with a certain clue it’s possible to know there meaning….
        The only proof that is conclusive is the TC we all agree…

    • Woody,
      I implied there were two different parties (one set got the first two clues correct) and I said that the second set (who ended up 500′ from the treasure) went straight to clue 8 and did not follow any of the other clues. Now the record is straight.

      MapsSmith – I couldn’t agree more.

      The Wolf

      • If that’ s what you believe then you are saying you can go straight to the treasure . Why then my friend do you not have the treasure in your possession , Seeing as how you do not it is based on speculation and speculation alone. Have you been told by FF that you are right. I think not.( IMO) Also goes for MapSmith as well.

        • Ahh don’t really agree with your detective work there Woody. Ya might want to reread the post and think about it first.

        • What your proclaiming is like saying you and Mapsmith are the only ones that have enough confidence when you go in the woods to figure out what the clues are. That is quite frankly a–anine .There are lots of others and even some that quite frankly could run circles around you in the mountains That goes for me also. Mostly because I’m getting old. I’ve trapped and hunted and rode horses all through those mountains.

          • Wow Woody, you live in heaven…….love that water in Flathead, crystal clear.

            The water in cold mountain lakes is something everyone should experience seeing at least once……..add that to the bucket list.

          • Methinks something was misread. Either that or we need to post a NoTrolls sign.
            But please don’t presume on my behalf; while I *think* that absolute confidence will be required to nab the chest, I do not yet possess said confidence …and hope I refrain from ever putting myself in the Braggadocio role here.

            That said, I totally have the poem all figured out. Don’t half of us??
            -j/k 🙂

      • As I understand it your 2nd set of people were not necessarily searchers at all. So there was no way any of them “went straight to clue #8”.

  59. Calm down y’all the treasure is very difficult to find and that’s probable only telling the half of it. 🙂

    • Based on this last exchange, one can clearly see why it is important not to discuss openly once you have the correct solution or possess the treasure. Best to keep it to yourself it is not worth the ridicule that will follow – you will not be popular!
      Good luck MapSmith!

      The Wolf

      • My point exactly no one knows if they have the correct solution until they possess the treasure not me not you not anyone unless they have the bracelet and hand it to Forrest or mail it ti him.

  60. A clash of opinions. Some say yes, some say no. Doesn’t make either right or wrong, because, again, its’s an opinion. RESPECT is the key word here.

  61. I’m sorry, but I can’t seem to put my head around this discussion of the horse shoes. Granted, they are in TTOTC, but being they are also found in FF other books, leads me to disqualify them from this search. If I were to find a purpose in them, I would go by both their definitions. One being ‘Great “O”‘ and the other being ‘the end’. With a little play on the definitions, you end up with 2 or ‘to’ omegas which Fenn could make G(reat) O to the end or ‘go to the end’. Again, this is something that more than likely be in the Fenn Dictionary. But until the time comes where I need a ‘go to the end’, they’ll rest quietly in my “maybe” list.

    He did say “You only need the poem to find the chest”. I grant you, you will find subtle hints in the book, but remember they are only ‘subtle’. Fenn has also said that he hates dictionaries, because they don’t provide the words he needs. So, what does he do? He makes use of the words available in the dictionary to create his own words. Example: his use of the word “weak”. If you read and understand it properly you will find that he gives you a direction. So who among you are serious thinkers and can tell me the direction?

    Clocks ticking…

    This again is only my opinion.

    • I don’t think the omegas are in all his books. As for weak being a direction? I thought it was a clue to what he had done….IMO

      • I had quite a while ago stated that Forrest was great at using metaphors. I found this ‘weak’ to be such a word. If you look up Metaphor, you will find “a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.
        Example: “I had fallen through a trapdoor of depression:”, Here ‘trapdoor’ is the metaphor.

      • Additionally, whether omegas are in all his books or not has no real relevance, since there is no reference to them in the poem that I could find. After all, the poem is all we need to find the chest.

  62. Example: The stock market was weaker today…falling several points. Meaning it went down.

  63. Or, ” My income has weakened since I lost my job.”. My income went down. (Not really, knock on wood!)

  64. Ha Ha! But your interpretation is incorrect! And I will beat you both to the treasure, because I have something neither one of you has, with your fancy “weaks”. I will do it tired, on my rocket propelled roller skates!!

    • LOL. That’s hilarious to say the least.

      For someone that needs an explanation of what a metaphor is, along with examples, you’ll at least have plenty of ‘hot air’ on the skate board…lol

      • Oh, I see, you are talking “weak” to me, very funny! I really do think the “tired” part means driving, or biking. Oh, please explain again what is this metaphorical thing, to someone so simple as I. Use real small words, thanks.

    • Everyone’s interpretation is correct to them. And cannot be stated as wrong, until you are holding the chest ! Thank you very much.

      • Donna,
        LOL I think everyone who finds their treasure will need to come through you and you can authenticate it. J/K But wouldn’t that be fun to see. Ok this reminds me of one of my thoughts…DO you think FF might have did the TTOTC in hopes that someone might find one of the wooden boxes left behind by the Spaniards and he could use the journals and diaries would reaffirm what he already knows that the San Lazaro Pueblo Indians dwelled together with the Spaniards? He is always trying to make his shots count. Kill two birds with one stone… A good example of this is when he and Donnie worked in Idaho at the Golf Course in Idaho and he rented out the floor and a shower for a buck fifty. He has always had a keen eye to make the best out of any situation, he’s very clever!

  65. For me the two alphas were Senior and Junior and the omegas represented their ends.
    If the clues are in consecutive order, wouldn’t the last clue be right before your quest to cease?

      • sorry for the double post… posted without hitting reply duh!
        Your probably not going to like my answer, but I’m going to stick with “Brown”, I think someone/group has/have figured out where to put in, But don’t know where to go next.

        • No, your absolutely correct. Brown is and always has been the focus word. However, what Brown he is talking about has been to $10,000 question.

          • I don’t think I’m correct lol. I’m just speculating as to why there’s a “focus word” all of a sudden.

          • “Brown”, has been the most talked about word since the release of the poem. That’s the only reason I called it a ‘focus word’. Other than that, understanding who, what and where it is, is the quandary. I feel I have solved it, but time will tell.

          • Humph. As usual, I call ‘pics or its Not real’
            i.e. Dear new readers: germguy and anyone else, and me too, have No Idea what the focus word is. It’s all just conjecture until you get the Chest in hand.

            ..and it’s not Brown 😉 by a long shot.
            (However, again, See above) 😉


          • Of the fish, person or whatever, I would forget about fish. Why you say? Because he has made too many references to fishing. He wouldn’t make it that easy to understand the meaning or reference to a “Brown”. He has made “Brown” the major focus of the search. Scan the blogs and you will see what I mean with all the possible meanings for the word. Look at how confusing his use of the word “wood” has been.

    • I thought the second Omega was in honor of Eric Sloane since he did use the double Omegas in his book about Eric, “Seventeen Dollars a Square Inch”.

      I mostly agree about the clues. Although I’m not sure if the last clue is “Look quickly down”, I was thinking the 5th and 6th stanzas contained good hints or confirmations that you were in the right area, but not directions to the treasure.

        • In the little amount of time I’ve looked into the Omegas, it seems fairly common to put an Omega in the Colophon of a book, kind of like saying “The End”. It could also be in honor of his father too but I really haven’t placed much weight on them being part of the solution to the poem. Others obviously feel differently. 🙂

          • My thoughts on the double omega is that it might be part of the blaze clue. If this is FF’s pen mark it might be his signature on say a cottonwood or aspen tree.

          • I Agree with germanguy and you. Omegas haven’t panned out for me either. Just curious who your 1st was?

            The last direction for me is to look down. Otherwise I’d probably be looking up.

          • John, I’m not positive, but I think he had a single Omega at the end of all the books prior to “Seventeen Dollars a Square Inch”. Maybe Dal can confirm this. If that is true, it could have been in memory of his father. Then after Eric died, Forrest put another Omega at the end of the book about Eric. Maybe he continues to use the double Omegas in honor of these 2 men that meant so much to him. I really don’t know though and unless it really does figure into the solution and it is revealed to us, we’ll never know. They just don’t seem to work for me. 🙂

          • I might be mistaken but I thought I looked at all of his books in CW one day and that the only two that had a colophon were TTOTC and TFTW. At one point they had all of them sitting on the counter.

        • According to the urban dictionary: 1.
          omega male
          The polar opposite of the Alpha Male. Omega Males can have friends and close acquaintances but prefer to accomplish things on their own without the help of a group. Omega Males generally don’t belong to any cliques and have no desire to be the leader or most outstanding of said clique. Omega Males have relations with people from all groups and carry a resourcefulness and cunning (sometimes strength) to get a job done with their own skill. This being said, an omega male can have great pride without it manifesting as “ego.” (There are always exceptions. FF is the Double Omega

      • Some think the Omega is for Eric and his Dad too, but I know that Forrest Loved his Mother very much. I think maybe its for his Mother and Father. If its that at all. I have my own Idea of what it really means.

        • No one ever mentions his Mom really. She passed away at an RV park they would go to every summer. I think near Ennis, but not sure. Is that in Lewis and Clark County?

          • His mom and dad lived comfortably in Temple Texas. Lillie passed away in Oct. 1979 and

          • His dad passed in 87. Sorry this is broke up. Got info from Bell County, Tx records and it stated they both passed away while living in Temple. They could have been on vacation when her death occurred, it just listed her current residency at time of death at Temple tho. The summer location was in Madison County, MT. ¥Peace¥

          • I believe it was here that they would go for many years.


            Interesting they have golf there and I always thought that the 9 mile and the 9 clues could relate to golf. I wondered if he played golf and was actually able to find an article online where he talked about playing golf at one of the air force bases.

            I don’t know this for sure…I thought I just remember hearing that.

          • Forrest mentions how much he Loved his mom in Thrill of the Chase. I am sure his father missed her very much too.

  66. Your probably not going to like my answer, but I’m going to stick with “Brown”, I think someone/group has/have figured out where to put in, But don’t know where to go next.

    • John R I have a possible solution to put in under home of Brown. It makes sense on three different levels, but doesn’t tie well into the rest of the clues, at least not yet…

      • I read your comments on the double omegas, and had the same thoughts, but could never get past how he would use the symbol as a blaze. He’d have to carve it in rock, or make it out of bronze and hang it up. I still like the double omegas as a blaze idea, but what if the blaze isn’t a physical marker at all?

          • I’m kinda thinking (right now) the blaze isn’t a physical marking at all. Whether it’s an FF or UU. He’d still have the same problem. Making sure the “marking” doesn’t go away. It needs to last for what 1000 years.

  67. I’m just speculating about Brown – I don’t know.
    F did say on the news when asked for the HOB, that he couldn’t give it away because then you could go right to it (going off memory here), so how much more focused can you get? But he also said to start at the beginning, so good luck.

  68. Brown may or may not be the so-called key, but if so, it sounds like people [the ones he’s mentioned at least] go too far down below wwwh and overshoot it. So maybe it’s both obscure and along but not at the end or mouth of the canyon in question. Too far to walk, but not as far as one would instinctively expect to go.

  69. Maybe the blaze is a geological formation. Those last hundreds of years. Just sayin’. ¥Peace¥

    • Donna,

      Just wanted to throw this info out there as an FYI- the blaze could also mean a forest fire and incidentally the largest forest fire in Yellowstone in last couple hundreds of years happened in 1988 the year FF was diagnosed with cancer.

      I do not think this is the right interpretation because if it takes 1-2 thousand years to find FF’s treasure, the forest fire (Blaze) will be gone…

      • I believe FF has no intention of the chest not being found for 1000 yrs. frankly I think he’s surprised it outlasted 1000 days.

        Why else give hints on the today show…..?(after saying the poem is all you need)…..

        • I think he went on the “Today Show” to put a plug in for the TTOTC and TFTW. It’s all part of the master plan… Since FF is a meticulous planner, again everything he does is with purpose. Luck has nothing to do with it, it’s all about who does the most homework, who reads the most, who know the most about FF. He’s the key…and through him is the only way you are going to find his treasure. Also to totally stir up the pot…You know Forrest Fenn has to have a Plan B. Just some food for thought… You might not know the intents at the time, but that’s what makes him extremely successful, and he can keep a secret and make a couple of $$ doing it. I see FF as an opportunist who takes chances and makes things happen, even if he is the only man standing. I wish we had more people who have the guts to test themselves and the confidence to say “If you are wise like I am then i give you title to the gold” It’s my opinion FF want’s to pass his torch/legacy on to someone who is worthy to run with it! I just love the way he thinks! He’s very clever! He fires people up and he gets results!

          Another tidbit of information: If you are wise and in the wood…Could the wood be referencing the books??? Just saying.

        • I emailed him and asked about what is needed. He replied the book and his poem. Then he came out with another book, so I asked again. Unfortunately I think that got me on the sh*t list because he never responded. Not to be to morbid, I think he intends to r.i.p. with the treasure. It was his original intention.

        • Map I think you’re right – he wants to know who’s smart like him, so the chase maybe isn’t designed to outlast him.
          IMO, if it is not found within 5-10 years, then it will not be found for another 1000. I think the blaze will be swallowed by the changing forest, and the box would be lost for a while.

  70. The Blaze from the fires in Yellowstone are huge, All Over the Place, too big…I think. You have to be wise……I guess it could be a small blaze or a tree hit by lightening. I think its more a trail maker of some kind. Not a thousand+ acres of fire.

      • Off topic.

        Just visited your new blog. I stumbled to it through your profile picture here.

        Nice photo of part of Red Canyon.

        Good luck with it!


        • Thank you. My blog page is a work in progress…I hope my page isn’t too hard to navigate…I will be posting new topics to discuss different ideas and pictures of where the TTOTC takes me. I want to share my experiences and hope people get as much enjoyment and excitement as I do. I kind of look at the TTOTC like the novel of 1000 Arabian Nights and FF is smiling when he reads the posts. This is good for his spirit…some raw adventurous soul food!

      • Your Welcome, swaing88! Remember Forrest said give the poem to a kid, and don’t over think it! Happy Hunting 88.
        ps. sorry can’t give away my home of Brown. Just remember you got to “put in” there, below it. Also too 88, forrest say’s people are going right past it….Why? Because they are reading the poem wrong. Good Luck

    • I could tell you, but then I’d have to kill you. 🙂

      Just kidding; I have no idea where he is.

    • Only place he could be is in New Mexico cause the rest of the Rockies is under a large amount of snow right now, Maybe the lower half of Colorado but it would be hard to search anywhere else IMO

      • He said Montana, but maybe he said that so we’d all go there and not where he’s really looking lol.

          • Re Dal: I hope he really is a cold weather/backcountry wimp (not unlike me) as he portrays in his biking/snow story.
            Most of my solves require a day or more of snowshoeing to get to this time of year.

  71. He said he was going to be in the “WOOD” If he is getting the treasure than I will be sad and happy. Sad I could not go get it myself and was waiting for spring. I would also be happy, because this hunting is driving me crazy, up night after night reading the poem and books over and over…..I know I am not alone on this. It could be I could get back to other things in my life. A sort of relief in a way. Who is with me on that?

    • @Lou Lee, it would be fine with me if he found it……..if he didn’t reveal the solution I might have to go “convince” him otherwise. 🙂

      Just my opinion…..everyone is different:

      If it’s keeping you up at night I would say it’s time to take a step back and put things in perspective. Dedication is good, obsession is not. All of the over emotional stuff clouds a person’s judgment. I know it’s difficult to do sometimes, but some of the best decisions I’ve made about critical situations; business or personal, popped into my head while I was fishing. Maybe that’s just me.

      When the chase quits being fun or starts negatively affecting other things or people around me; it’s time to quit…….If some of the folks on the chase put the amount of time, money, and hard headed determination into a new business they would be rich by now.

      Like I said, just my opinion.

      • GOG im curious what would be your opinion of Dal under the guide lines you just layed out. Dal right now has 3+ years searching with a website and right now is in the Rockies in 0 degree weather in 5 foot of snow so would that be a cloudy judgement. If I assume he is in the Rockies and this is IMO and not to be taken a mean maner of a question

        • @William, my opinion (all of this is just my opinion) of Dal is he’s having a great time and has the resources to do so. Much like Rick, Toby (until he quit to start his new business), and many others out looking for the chest, it’s just a fun challenge and not detrimental to them.

          Some think Fenn is insane for hiding a box of gold. It’s just a game to him and the cost of the chest and the books is fairly trivial to him; he’s just having fun, like many of the searchers matching wits with him. I don’t think Fenn would have done this if it was going to harm his family financially.

          It looks like I touched a nerve. I was just answering Lou Lee’s question about being kept up at night…….that’s all. I’m surprised at all the emotional responses.

          • well I guess your the expert on who is able to go out and search for the treasure and who might be crazy or not for doing it. Im sure you have some inside information we all don’t. About who is and who is not hurting their family financially? I heard on another blog that you were breaking into peoples personal information? Is that how you know? whats it to YA???Goofy guy?

          • I apologize if I upset you…….I’m not an expert on who should search for the treasure, it was just my opinion as I stated at the start of my response to William. I really don’t understand all the raw nerves.

            As far as your accusation of me breaking in to people’s personal information (I don’t know of any blogs that have any personal information) I’m calling who ever said that a liar and I’m questioning your integrity for repeating a lie. So let’s clear the air here and now. Where did you hear that from and I will vigorously confront them to clear my name.

            Integrity is something I feel very strongly about.

          • I know for a fact there is no personal information on my forum except for ip and email address and Goofy was an admin there and I know for a fact he never put anything on the forum to do anything that would get personal info at all.

            I just learned about ip’s a couple months ago when I had to block someone for being abusive and I found out there was a plugin to do that so I could block when they would try and sign up with a different email. I guess there’s a way to use an ip to see where someone is, because Dal always knows where I am if I email him or go to his blog. He can tell when I’m in Santa Fe or Albuqurgue or up north or at home. I seriously couldn’t figure out how he always knew those things till just recently. I thought he was telepathic.

          • Goofy

            You need not pay attention to that garbage. Remember last year Dal had to shut down this site because of another guy creating havoc for everyone. This kind of s#@t is bound to happen when good people come together and characters like him show up.

          • Sorry you took it that I was moody about it but I wanted to ask that question and didnt mean it in no harm or foul but the question came up about obsession and I was wonder if there was any filter that when you made that statement but I must say that I have a little obsession with the hunt cause why would we do the things we do. I will be first to say when the chest is found it will be a sign of relief on me so that a sense of normal will come back and people say that they are not obsess are in denial cause thats why we hit the blogs for the chest all day and every day

          • Thank you Steph I appreciate your statement. Like I said I don’t know of any blogs that compile personal information……

            I do want to know where she got her information, and will be waiting on her reply.

            As far as IP’s go:
            IP’s are easily spoofed, but if you’re not a geek there are several companies (including some anti-virus companies) that offer VPN services and you can pick where you want the ip address to come from.

      • My name is CJ and I’m addicted to “The Chase”. 😀
        Actually, we probably all are obsessed by it, some more than others, or we wouldn’t be buying Chase related books, researching on the Net, looking at maps, spending time reading and posting on blogs, and going on searches. I do all of that. But I do agree that, like any addiction, if it interferes with your personal relationships and/or causes you to spend money you cannot afford, it may be time to take a look at what it is doing to you. What’s wrong with saying that? It’s just an opinion, but one shared by many experts in addiction. 🙂

        • My Name is Lou Lee and ………I am a treasure hunter. I am not addicted, because I can walk away from it. LOL…..Smile……….Keep Having fun and stay True.

  72. Hey Goofy, Tell all that to Dal! Im not the one on the Blogs 24-7! Not Negatively effecting me at all. I am not like some who do all their searching and Blogging on line. I go out and search, when I can, but not like some. My “Case” is mild compared to most here….LOL
    Frank, thanks, I think you got what I am trying to say….
    Also Goofy, I make my living, well some of it , being a treasure hunter and it does pay off, but I agree if some people who spend all their time googleing and searching online, put their time into a business instead, they might get wise…I agree with you on that!

    • Goofy is talking about me without saying my name, not you Lou Lee(I’m sure he will deny it). Maybe he should show me how easy it would be for him to walk away from this. It could be just that I’m pretty honest about how obsessed I am about this compared to some that are and just don’t say it.

      I honestly don’t see the need for a therapy session on the blogs, because it’s just not cool in my opinion to judge others.

      • Steph, I know this is hard for you to grasp, but everything is not about you.

        Lou Lee asked a question, and I simply gave her an answer and stated it was just my opinion twice in the response.

        Now you declare I’m being dishonest about how I feel. Of course only you know how I “really” feel; and also declare there is no need for a “therapy session” on this or any other blog.

        For a person who thinks it’s “not cool” to judge others you’re certainly handing out a lot of judgments………

        • I knew you would deny it, but regardless…you know I have admitted to it…so even if you’re adding others to your statement…it’s still directed at me.

          I guess you’re right…I’m judgmental for judging those who judge others. Good point. I’ll give you that one against me.

      • Hi Stephanie, Some people are here lurking just so they can jump on someone’s innocent comments about hunting and speculation!!! Judging others is not cool. I agree with you Stephany!!! I was not judging anyone in my comment. However goofy, decided to make a bunch of uncalled for statements and judgments. Maybe HIS Negativity is clouding the Blog. LOL Carry on Hunters.

  73. Its funny how everyone has an opinion about everyone else. I think if we all just worried about ourselves and refrained from passing judgement this would be a lot more fun for us all, wouldnt it?

    I love all the passion but really there has to be an end to this.
    Stephanie is fine, Dal is fine, we all are fine. I am going back under my rock now. Have a good evening and be kind to obe another.

  74. Some of the most irresponsible and broke people are treasure hunters.

    Swore i wouldn’t be like this years ago.

    Came up a 10 year plan to start out with $2000 and double it each year to be a millionaire

    The first year was really easy i learned about saving money and doing without 10% of my income. The next year saved 20% of my income,
    The next year moved into auctions.Before you knew it it started to snow ball and became a really fun game.

    The fun part is having money to help other people or give to your favorite charity. The other day saw a Carl Redin painting going for $3500 was so graceful i could afford to buy that painting and it wouldn’t even hurt.

    Have $6500 in cash (trip costs lost car) and 650 hours (at $20 a hour that would be $19,500) for a total of $19.500 in this hunt.

    After making a run out West here soon I and seeing the results will take a break from this hunt.

    Having that plan in place gives me the freedom to pursue this and not even phased over losing.

    Know I have OCD with treasure hunting know I’m not irresponsible and reckless Yet people have often laughed and roll there eyes when i tell them about treasure hunting.

    Talked to a woman who’s into retirement plans and she told me 70% of people have a retirement plan called the bullet plan.

    That means 7 out of 10 people here have that plan

    These are people who get up go to work 9 till 5 and work 40 years…………

    Yeah there the responsible grown adults.

    • Good post Rick. I do feel obsessed, but we have a retirement account. I have no debt other than my house. I take care of what needs to be taken care of in my life. Saying that…I have spent way more than I wish I had(unless I find it..then it’s moot), I have spent way less time with people I feel I should have.

      I appreciate your candor Rick.

    • Rick,
      I must honestly say you have been a true inspiration to me and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for that. Part of me says I want to go and retrieve that treasure just for you. I too took a break (then returned) and I am still retired from physically searching. Have the (oops I mean “a” – don’t want to get people too excited – lol) solution but don’t know if I should pull the trigger.

      I recently discovered the dark side of revealing the discovery to the world and it was ugly. Not worth it – maybe it is best for me to take a break as well or just disappear and continue on silently.

      Take care and all the best – do keep in touch!

      The Wolf

      • If you really know, then you should pull the trigger. Obviously no one else has “the” solution. You alone could stop the bickering! 🙂

      • Wolf I’ve been a treasure hunter for aprox. 10 years why dont’ you just go pull the trigger and prove what you claim. Many of us here have said an thought the same thing . Including me. It’s a good experience to swallow your adams apple when you are wrong. Then if you are right you can rejoice and say I told you so. Let’s see it . I have been on both sides of the coin . That way I can put my energy into a different treasure that’s still out there.

      • @Wolf…..I’ve always enjoyed reading your search stories, very imaginative and you are a good writer.

        I think you should let er rip………….WAIT!!……Give me time to warm up my truck. 🙂

      • Wolf You call it the dark side . Is it really the dark side of a person to say that you don’t know until you have put boots on the ground and have the treasure The Answer is no . Obviously you have not done that. You have no Idea what you are going to encounter or what the terrain is like or what kind of challenges you may have when you get there. But yet you say it’s the dark side when someone with years of experience challenges what you say. Good Luck.

        • Woody,
          I understand you know nothing about me and I realize you are unaware that I have an extensive military background. I have a 3 week mountain flying course and I conducted my survival training in the Rocky Mountains in Canada. I went 5 days without any food and I am capable of eating things that will make a billy goat puke! This is just to name a few.

          The Wolf

          • I don’t care if you were or are a green beret or lived on spiders or what ever for a month . That is irrelevant The fact is you do not have the treasure and yet you claim to know all the answers when you do not know the answers and fail time and time again to prove you do. All you have is your opinion.

          • Woody – lol keep talking! I love making people eat their words – those words may just make a woody goat puke! ha ha ha
            Sorry I couldn’t resist. jk Now don’t go off on the darks side again – never mind go ahead I love to be entertained as much s the next guy! lol
            The Wolf

      • Kelly

        Your highly educated (by far not dumb) fly a C130 have a crew under you. Married and raising a family.
        You really have amazing treasures:)

        As for myself dropped out of college to go get this treasure hunting. Put a huge strain on my family over treasure hunting. Divorced my ex over treasure hunting.

        That being said everyone here is my competition,

        Sometimes they show the hands they will play and you just have to get out of the way and let them take the hit.

        They want to be treasure hunters well saddle up.



  75. Thought of the week:

    How do we know someone on here doesn’t have THE solve and holds the chest?

    Just because Forrest says it’s still out there doesn’t make it absolute truth. Say the finder and Forrest got together and decided the best thing would to continue the chase. The finder wins by not being pressured to claim it and the plublicity that goes with it and Forrest continues to get people off the couch.

    Just saying its a possibility and as the years go on a more and more likely one.

      • Just want to clarify we are talking about the same man who’s partial fortune was made off of paintings with forged signatures? Where was integrity then?

        Again just stating the possibilty.

        • He never forced anyone to buy a forged painting. They knew in advance that it was a forgery and still chose to purchase it. Where ISN’T there integrity in that?

          • Truth is, you have to have enough faith in the man, ff, to look for the treasure to begin with.

        • Yes, anything’s ‘possible’

          But I think I speak for many adults here when I say ‘I think you missed the most important part of that story’:
          He always told those customers straight up that they were buying (good) copies, not originals. Forthright sales and grifting forgeries are entirely different acts.

          • I know the story. And you think those people hung it up on the wall and bragged that they had a original or imposter? Forrest isn’t dumb he knew why they bought it. Saying what the painting really was cleared his own conscience.

          • Elmyr de Hory was one of the most famous forgers EVER, so extremely talented, and could copy the style of so many famous artists. I would have loved to have bought one of his paintings and would have proudly claimed it as a de Hory, but alas, even a de Hory is out of my price range. 🙁 I bet many people would not have had a problem telling who had painted the picture on their wall. Even Forrest and Peggy kept one of de Hory’s paintings, although he would have probably been very amused to see people’s reactions when he told them it was a forgery. 😀

    • Whoever finds it will anonymously tell the world as they don’t want anyone to get hurt after its found on their conscious – after you’ve been in the wood you’ll understand….

        • DP, I think that Clayton is talking about the responsibility that some people might feel were they to find the treasure, not tell anyone, and then a year later some young fool searcher went out in the wilderness trying to get the treasure and, say, got mauled by a bear .
          However, other people would say that the national Park service or Bureau of land management or tribal Council, or whatever… Would actually be the responsible party as all these “search areas” are available to people whether there’s a treasure chest there or not , and thus the danger has always been there.
          FF Has not forced anyone to make any foolish choices,… They have to own that responsibility themselves, after all. 🙂

          • The only one responsible in that scenario is the idiot that got mauled….PERIOD> END OF STORY
            if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen….if you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime… etc.

    • None of us know that . We are depending on the integrity of FF being honest about knowing if it is still there. Until someone can prove to me that FF has breached that Integrity I will believe him.

    • The way I’ve seen treasure hunt odds work, it’s most likely that once one person figures out the riddle, multiple others do too— either we all see the same new movie that triggers an idea, a clue interpretation is shared that makes everything fit, the clue giver releases new info that makes all the difference , or maybe collective consciousness kicks in.
      But I say it’s incredibly unlikely that only one soul figures it out and no one else does for years. And unlikelier yet to FF’s character that he would enter into such a lie / agreement.

    • @JMC……short answer we don’t know.

      That’s a decision every person has to make, along with how much effort and resources they are willing to throw at finding the treasure.

      Obviously, everyone here believes it’s real and it hasn’t been found (except for the searchers that couldn’t find it 🙂 ).

      If you’re trying to convince anyone here that it’s not there save your electrons, you are committing blasphemy in the house of Fenn.

  76. Whether we know if it has been found or not, will ALWAYS be the question that will raddle around in the back of our minds. This is the risk we all accept when chasing after this elusive treasure.

    I myself, have one more spot that needs my attention. After that, I leave the search for good and wish everyone “Good Luck”.

    One more thought I’d like to share, was shared with me as well. It came from someone I respect and I feel he won’t mind my sharing it with you.

    “The person that finds the chest will be a pig……Like in the old saying: “Arguing with a stubborn person is much like mud wrestling with a pig. Pretty soon you realize the pig likes it.”

    “The pig loves the stench, mess, and grossness of the mud…….The long hours of research, driving endless miles to your spot, the expense, the bugs, the heat, the cold, the naysayer’s scoffs, and scouring your spot only to find it’s not there is not devastating, or emotionally draining to the pig. It’s just one more place where the treasure is not, on to the next. The pig that finds the treasure loves “the grind of the chase” it’s like wrestling in the mud.”

    I will be around to help if I can, but as far as the search goes, this next trip is my last.

  77. I “Wood” be happy if Dal does find the Treasure and a little sad too…..
    Forrest said some Unemployed dad of a dozen kids might go out and
    find the Treasure too…I hope so….Or some homely girl might have a chance of a life time…..Wink Wink….Love you Forrest, Much Respect, Your friend forever,
    Lou Lee Chased by Brown Bears in Jellystone Park.

  78. @JMC. There is no conscience that needed clearing in regards to the forged paintings. I can’t fathom how you could think otherwise.

        • I was waiting for someone to ask….in MY spot and WITHOUT me lol. Isn’t that how we all feel? Ok..lame joke.

          • Hi Stephanie!

            Hope you are doing well, I met you at the Santa Fe book signing, and think you’re pretty cool (does that give my age)!
            Don’t worry about feeling offended by the earlier Goofy posts. I think that the barometric pressure, alignment of the stars, and or electromagnetic field make everyone more emotional on some days. For example, I was all ‘WTH’ and insulted by the Pig Metaphor thingy. I thought, wow, it would take a lot of twisting to make that post into a compliment. Anyhow, I too think A LOT about the poem, all the tine I guess, and am a bit obsessed. I heard about it last spring, and have gone out over 10 times already, looking for it.
            Very best 2 U.

          • I wanted to say thank you for putting up the reference section on your site. I hadn’t visited for awhile and was pleasantly surprised… so thanks!

          • Oh sure. I had such a blast reading all those for the first time. I could just imagine the girl yelling in his gallery that they had been robbed and seeing Forrest run and chase the guy. Most all of us have read his memoir, and I don’t think he realizes so much that it’s fun for us to “fill in” some other pieces…like it was so cool to learn that June married Donnie.

  79. May be working on one of his school projects. I sure wish he would video them for us to see!

  80. Anyone want to share their thoughts on this:
    On page 139 of TTOTC f says “And what if no one ever discovers my art?”
    Would you consider the treasure and the poem and the following and the chasing his art, or do you think he’s just talking about his bronze bells?

    • IMO he is talking about his bells he crafted with his own two hands. Wish I could find one!
      And to…JMC– there are people out there who love masterpiece art but can’t afford it. Elmyr de Hory is an artist in his own right with quite a following. His pieces are somewhat affordable compared to a $100,000 Monet. FF knew this and figured out a way to bring affordable art to customers who were proud of them. Customers knew exactly what they bought, and if they later said it was an original, it wasn’t FF fault. If you have any doubt about his honesty, you truly do not understand the wonderful man that is Forrest Fenn, thus will NEVER be able to understand him or his treasure poem, and sadly to say, have NOT got a chance in H#LL of finding the treasure UNLESS you accept this life changing event with seriousness and respect, an open mind and alittle hard study.
      As my Grandpa used to say…”Blowing out another person’s candle doesn’t make your own shine brighter.”
      karma goes along way, so just have fun with it!

    • No, I think he is talking about the story behind the chase. He crafted it and once we see the solution we will know his art. 🙂

  81. Oh Dal (echo echo) Come out come out where ever you are …He’s snuck off on a hunt. All that “tight focus” jargon must have got to him…. Hmmm, maybe I should go look for him !

  82. Who did he leave in charge of monitoring the sight? Kinda got hairy-Hory in here for a bit.

  83. I apologize if I offended you JMC, in any way. Fennology is all about the positives, not the negatves. Questioning the actions behind the character of such a generous person, in my eyes is just wrong. And thanks, Goofy!

  84. Hey there Goofy, You are Moderator? Sorry about yesterday, I was worried you thought you had my personal information after my nice post about Dal finding the treasure. You seem to personally attack me, Now knowing you are moderator, makes me feel uncomfortable about what you were saying. I accept your apology. Please be Careful what you say to people especially if they are trying to be nice. I was asking “Who was with me?’ Not WHO wanted to question my personal finances, and such! I do wonder how much info. you have acsess too now?

    • Lou Lee, I was puzzled by your accusations pointed at Goofy so I read over his and your posts. I cannot see ANYTHING Goofy wrote that might indicate he had ANY personal knowledge of you or was attacking you personally in ANY way. He tried to answer questions you asked and his opinions were general comments that could be applied to any of us searchers, and he stated repeatedly that they were just opinions. Goofy has been involved in this site for quite some time and helped Dal a great deal with the look and feel of it, even took all the beautiful pictures here, plus Dal has asked him to moderate it when Dal was not available. While I do not know Goofy personally, I have complete faith in his honesty and integrity.

      • Well said, CJ. Thanks, GGuy.

        While I observe attitudes and even personalities changing here, I can’t help but conclude “cabin-fever” is the cause of most of it.

        There is the element of pride and a sense of ownership because of the many trips, the money spent and the amount of time invested. None of which are a claim on Mr. Fenn’s gift.

        Keep reminding ourselves that it is the THRILL of the chase.

        Soon we will resume searching in a not so cold environment. Best wishes to all! 🙂

    • Thank you for clearing that up Lou Lee, integrity is something I feel very strongly about, perhaps I’m an old, out of place, dinosaur with that attitude but I’m not going to change.

      Yes I’m the moderator……That will teach him to leave town without telling us where he’s going…….back in the good ol days I built this site for Dal, which is a story in itself and humorous looking back on it now. To calm your fears I’m not aware of any personal information that is compiled on any blog and certainly not this one. I’m not saying you shouldn’t take security seriously, you definitely should have a good anti-virus and firewall programs installed one your computer and be cautious about giving out personal information. There are bad people out there wanting to get your information (logins, bank accounts, credit cards, etc. etc.) I match wits with them regularly, it’s part of what I do for a living.

      My answer to you was not one of condemnation but of concern, I apologize if I came across as belittling to you. It seems I can communicate with computers and dogs just fine, but have difficulty with people.

      Maybe I’m too concerned; getting soft in my old age. Last year I dealt with an obsessed searcher for several months (he sent me his solution out of the blue; that happens a lot, I don’t know why) that culminated with me taking him to his spot to search late last fall. His spot was totally wrong on many levels but he was convinced he was right….It worked out OK, but in the process he almost got a divorce, lost his friends, and his wife blamed me for making things worse. Perhaps I should write it up and see if Dal wants to post it with the other searches.

      Anyway, I can assure you there is nothing nefarious about Dal’s site…..I would have nothing to do with it or Dal if there was. Thanks to those that showed their support, I am honored by your statements.

  85. If the Treasure gets found by Dal, I am OK with that. I have OTHER fish to fry if its been found. If not, I am ready to go, I have been planning for all winter to go back out. I have saved my $ and I feel I know what the key words are. I am an experienced hiker, camper, treasure seeker. I am not afraid of disbelievers. I can’t wait to start my adventure! Love you Forrest!

  86. WWWH. I have a different view. If you are in the Rockies, maybe that is a suggestion as to that there are no warm waters around period. The mention of warm waters is to get one thinking of hot springs, when in fact, there are none there. Search where there are no warm waters. Warm waters halt at higher elevations and its just spring water and snow run off. Just a thought.

  87. “Tell me the reality is better than the dream, but I found the hard way – nothing is what it seems”

  88. “Can’t get no love”. That’s what I’m trying to say, nothing is what it seems. Here you go, Favorite book and a sandwich after him, Rye. An old mountain man that had much influence in the 1800’s lived in the Greenhorn area on the river. I just can’t find the rest yet. I’m thinking Rye Colorado area as it is also North of Sante Fe. Longitude for Sante Fe is 105.96 and Longitude for Rye Colorado is 104.92. That’s almost due north by a step or two left. Maybe I’m just fishing here for trout instead…..aarrgghhh

  89. Forgot…The mountain man was John Brown. Not the same as in Montana. He had a home, mill, store, and bore a son of the same name on the Greenhorn. Was somewhere on the Taos Trail that crossed the Greenhorn River. That fact will last another 1000 years…..

    • Tried to warn ya’ll yesterday this announcement was coming.

      – What better way to take 100% ownership than to “say” you found it on your property.

      – Where the anonymous couple found it matches up with “in the wood” and “blaze” Nice touch? I thought so too.

    • That truly is a treasure, wonder if we’ll ever hear the details about it. Not exactly where it was found but how and where it might of originated. This one seems to make Fenn’s treasure look like small potatoes (no disrespect intended). It looks to me like just one of those buckets of coins would fill Fenn’s chest.

      Did a little more research on this; it (Saddle Ridge Hoard) consisted of 1,427 gold coins and was found in February 2013 but just now put up for sale.

      A million metal detectors will probably be sold today in California. 🙂

      • Thanks Goofy always learning something new.

        Their is a treasure worth a billion dollars related to the Romanov’s. Very well documented.

        If one can cut a deal with Putin have access to Soviet era archives and say win 10% in a recovery costs they would clear $100 million.

        Your going to need to be dam good in this field to get the Russians working with you.

    • OMG! I live in N California, in Gold Country, in the Sierra Nevada Mountains!! Maybe I should start looking all around my property for a stash of gold like that. We live only about 25 miles from where gold was discovered in 1849. Might be easier than searching for Forrest’s treasure. 😀

      • That’s a beautiful part of the state……….I would definitely be looking around the property (and every where else) if I lived up there. I’ve talked to some detector guys and they said most of what gets discovered doesn’t get publicized. There has to be hundreds if not thousands of these type stashes up there. The banks were few and far between in those days and no one trusted them anyway; so they had to put their money someplace.

        • People should not trust them (banks) now either. I have always said NEVER trust anyone that asks to be trusted – that is something that is earned. SO Banks and Trusts – NOT trustworthy unless they earn it. Go see Wolf of Wall street- we are fighting a wolf that has raped trust accounts.

      • As a side note to this story, on the “Today” show this morning the reporter said the gold coins were found in the “Sierra Madre Mountains”, which is totally wrong, it’s the Sierra Nevada Mountains! We need to be careful what we believe reporters say about Forrest’s treasure too.

  90. If you find a treasure someone will most likely have a claim on it, even if found on your own land. The best thing you can do. Is not tell anyone. Because the min. you do……Its fair game. The best way is just tell people this was given to me by my grandpa. ” Not sure were he got it” Sock it away for awhile and think..that is my plan. Now please don’t bash me for saying this…OK……

  91. I can see Dal Now, He is sitting in A Hot Springs in Montana, at some Swank Resort. He has the Treasure, he took a hammer to his computer and Smart Phone. He is laughing and smoking a Big Fat Cigar!!!!!
    I think if anyone could find it, it’s him!!!!!
    God I hope he finds it!!! Because if he didn’t he is gona be grumpy!
    And he will be giving some *SS Kicking around here when he gets back!
    Goofy….You better start cleaning the place up. Don’t ya think? when he gets back just tell him everything went great.

    • That’s funny Lou Lee……a big fat cigar. The least he could do is send us a picture.

      Nah, no need to clean up……..I’ll just change his passwords until he calms down. 😎

  92. A Searcher’s Tale

    So I hear your call and I’m listening real good.
    My effort is worth finding the cold bronze chest.
    I will be brave when I get into the wood,
    Because the wood is the lining, inside the old chest.

    And, inside the chest lays a fortune in gold,
    For me to claim when I am so bold.
    You’ll then give me gold title, so I can rest,
    But, leave me to fight the big bad I.R.S.


    • Ritt, you are so creative. I say everyone submit their own chase poem and let FF publish them…call it…CHASE RAP, (or what ever) and of course, would have to include the finder’s story when it is found! Include some of the more famous emails and chatcomments. Would be a great memorial for everyone that took part making history!

    • Donna said she posted to the wrong site……so I deleted them for her. I don’t know which site she was talking about.

        • Goofy, sorry, got pulled away. No, on another treasure site, someone using the name of (lol) Donnadoo, (no…not me!), said they figured out where they made a correction on a search spot and are going back out in May. So I left the computer, came back, pulled up the wrong site and posted my comments on this one. It is weird tho, because also a DF said the same thingon THAT site also. I found out, my son, the ever pranker was doing it to rile me up, and it did. I changed password on computer, so hope it won’t happen again. So, if a DF or Donnadoo posts here, take it off ! So sorry everyone, please forgive his ignorance! ¥Peace¥

          • No, Ritt, FF hasn’t said it is found so I believe it. I peeked in on another site, those people are crazy! My son pulled a prank on me and got into the sites and tried to get me upset. Goofy deleted it, thank God! So it’s all cool. The treasure is still there, until I go get it! Lol… I wish!

          • Donna, I just saw the RF post and your response in my email this morning – Holy Batman indeed! 😀

            Actually, I have become so used to people making statements about “knowing” where the treasure is that i just ignore them. Many of usl may “think” we know where it is and feel pretty confident about it, but as has been said many times, you don’t really know until you have it in your hands.

            Now make your son write a thousand times “I will never make false claims about the Fenn treasure again”. 🙂

  93. Take it in the canyon down … does down equate to South and up is North, I think I saw that listed by a surveyor somewhere.

  94. I just want to say sorry again to Goofy, He is not the person I heard maybe Hacking, it was someone else. I just got my panties in a bunch, after he posted some stuff referring to me in a post. I was not the only one upset about it. I did not know he was Moderator of this Blog. Sorry again.
    Also I have had some trying times since joining this search. I will list them below.

    1. I took in a searcher who said their computer was fried and Hacked by Russians
    after joining the search.

    2. I was being followed several times.

    3. I had someone here posting going by RC, saying that they had been to my location and mentioned personal message about my family. I have never posted my locations, except. Ladies only, and that is not “MY LOCATION” as I know it.

    4. I was worried because Dal stated, last week or so that someone tried hundreds
    of times to break into the blogs info.

    5. I have been contacted by several searchers claiming all sorts of things.
    From treasure gone. to…….????

    6. Another friend I tried to help say’s Forrest is the one posting 80% of the time
    on Blogs as another person. Including saying dal and stephanie may in fact
    really be forrest?

    7. People think that forrest will give clue to the one He Wants to win. So they think
    being in good favor (kissing butt) is everything. LOL

    I have other funny things, this is all truth, And I know the fever is High…. Brothers and Sisters! Be safe and try not to get caught up in the (CRAZY)

    Love, Lou Lee, Chased by Brown Bears in Jellystone Park
    PS, Forrest is not going to ride up on a white horse and take you to the treasure!
    Or in a plane, You Know who you are!

    • I attribute all this craziness to “Cabin Fever” and Dal not being here to bring a calming presence to everyone…I think there are a lot of people who need to get outside. I am surprised to see so many people on this blog who get spun up over nothing. All I can say is get a grip, stay calm and work your solution set. Also do not rely on others to solve the clues for you. I like hearing from others to see what they are thinking and where the TTOTC is leading them…but that doesn’t mean I am going to take their word as gospel and completely drop my solution set. Hell half the time it’s hard to make sense of what people are saying because of all the other blogs they are on…And here’s my two cents I would be enforcing some punishment on someone getting on my computer and making false accusations. Maybe have them go to the back porch and get a switch. LOL I truly hope the weather gets better and people have a chance to get back out there. I hope you all have done you homework during the winter and are now ready to go out and try to see if your studying has been successful! Good luck!

      • I agree! My son, the ass, is 32! So switching is out of the question. It is hard when you believe in something, and everyone in the house thinks you are losing it. I’m the brunt of the families jokes and in public, they introduce me as the crazy treasure mom. Sometimes it gets overwelming, I cry, I pray, and keep on believing. Their ridicule motivates me even more. I believe, I believe, I believe…¥Peace¥

        • Donna,
          Don’t get discouraged…I have been a dreamer all my life and I think my health and blood pressure have benefited from it. All I can say is when you or whoever finds the FF Treasure, a lot of Nay sayers will have to eat crow. Also I could think of a lot worse things to do with your spare time. I think I am enjoying the thrill of the chase because I can relate to FF and his collecting and his stories…I love to collect things. This last week, I bought a nice painting of JFK and Winston Churchill. I also bought some mink for a really cheap price. Now all I need to do is find someone who still appreciates soft warm fur. LOL Keep fighting the Nay Sayers and hope someday to meet you in person. God Bless!

        • Donna, it’s because of other people’s attitudes like that toward treasure hunting that I keep my research secret from family and friends. But just think of all the treasure that has been found by people like us! You can’t find treasure unless you believe it’s there and go look for it – no one will stumble on it. Well, except for the people that found the $10 million in gold coin. 😀

          Keep on searching no matter what they say!

    • Lou Lee, there are lots of rumors going around about lots of stuff, doesnt make them true.I have no idea what you have heard but I can tell you I have met Stephanie and she is a real human being. 🙂 I wonder how people explain away another person on video camera?

      My suggestion is just stop listening to rumors. Use your own reasoning skills to figure out what is going on.At any rate, dont let it get to you.

      • Deb, Chill, I told you what someone thought and told me, I assured them that these people are real. I am not listening to rumors. People tell me these things. I was just sharing it so you all could have a laugh. I don’t let it get to me. I am above that. I just think its funny, that people think that way, don’t you? I am down to earth and honest with people. Sorry I did not make clear what I was saying and why, or you misunderstood me. I KNOW better!

        • What do you mean “chill”? I wasnt upset, but you seemed to be. 🙂 I never would repeat or list those kind of things, so it was a little odd that you would. Sorry. 🙂

          • Well Our Forrest did, too. I did not name names. Forrest did not. But told the stories of treasure hunters. Its OK OK. Its not bad. I am not upset Deb. I just wanted to let you know. I am not believing all the things that people are telling me. I know better than that! Don’t worry about me. I am, thanks for caring. Happy Hunting!

    • No problem Lou Lee, I appreciate your comment. My response truly was out of concern. I’ve been surprised at the emotional intensity of some of the searchers. I honestly thought they were kidding for a long time. No one would really harm themselves over a silly treasure hunt…..The searcher I got involved with last year (I won’t do that again) was an eye opening experience. He truly was a nice guy, took care of his family, always held a job, he really was the definition of a salt of the earth regular guy. But he went berserk over this treasure and nearly ruined his life.

      I got a kick out of your list………You wouldn’t believe some of the emails I’ve got. Fenn has posted some of his crazy emails……I honestly thought for a long time they were just people trying to be funny, coming up with outlandish things to say. But I finally realized they weren’t joking……I don’t know if that is sad or scary, both maybe.

      I was going to respond to your list with some funny smart aleck responses that popped into my head but I decided against it………some folks out there might actually believe me.

      However, I can assure you that Dal is not Fenn……if Fenn were to create an online avatar he would be much better looking. 😆

      • Thanks Goofy, I do know better, I told the person, No way, Those people are real! Don’t worry, I am very on the level person. A little sensitive at times, but I Am OK. Just thought I would share with you some of the things that happened. Thanks again

      • If you are a real and true interim admin I want your responses to appear in a grey box like Dals do.

        • Where do all of Dal’s comments show up in a gray box? I could be wrong but It looks like an original comment in a new tread is in gray but all replies to that comment are in black, even Dal’s.

          • Dal’s comments should be a slightly lighter color than everyone else’s. Now mine are.
            I could turn them purple if I wanted, it’s just a matter of editing the stylesheet. This theme uses the css authcomment’; to highlight the comments made by the author. Dal is the author of all the documents so his comments are a slightly different color. I could change this to highlight all of the “admin” comments, then both his and mine would show up a different color……..but I don’t have that big of an ego.

            I don’t know what Kyote’s problem is………When he/she is satisfied that I’m an official admin I’ll change them back.

            It is me or are some folks just getting weird.

          • I was just wondering about the color boxes as I looked at some of Dal’s responses to me and could not discern any difference in color. Maybe something wrong with the style-sheet or are they not gray because you are the moderator now?

            It’s not you. 🙂

          • Geeze, now Dal’s going to want all his responses in gray too. Can we all pick our own color? 🙂

          • Yes everyone could have a different color……No I’m not going to do it.

            I could turn Dal’s pink……..wouldn’t that be a hoot. 😆

            For my next trick I’ll make Kyote disappear. 👿

            Just kidding……

  95. Hey Everyone….Breaking News!!!!

    Scientists made a announcement this week that Yellowstone Super Volcano is on the Rise. It has a sudden elevation of Helium-4 Coming to the surface. Emitting mass amounts of Helium-4!
    Scientists the gas amounts are hundreds of thousands times greater than they should be. The activity is moving South Eastward.
    They had a earthquake on Feb. 11th.
    Yellowstone is on watch!
    Thought I would share that with you all.
    Yikes. They also said this is the activity That often happens before eruptions!
    I also live with in the 500 mile radius to be effected….Pray

    • Can you link to the info on Yellowstone? The only info I found on the USGS site said the activity was normal and it’s not on Watch status, but that could be older data. Of course if it blows, we’re all in deep trouble!

      Living in CA and having been fairly close to some of the bigger earthquakes, I’m interested in geology. We went to Volcano National Park in Hawaii quite a few years ago but Kīlauea wasn’t active at that time like it is now.

    • There was an article about the Helium 4 detected at Yellowstone in the Feb. 19 issue of the journal Nature. HuffPost covered it

      I don’t recall anything about the elevation being “sudden.” I recall it was determined the He4 had been trapped in the Earth’s crust for millions or billions of years. Presumably they just started measuring it, but I don’t know that for sure.

      The gas amounts are hundreds TO thousands times greater than expected. Not hundreds OF thousands.

      I would guess the Yellowstone area has at least one earthquake every day, and more likely it has more than one per day. Most of them are probably not big enough for a human to notice.

      • Oops..Typo. Hey there Mike, I Love Volcano’s I watched Mt. Saint Helens erupt and got close to it right before it erupted. I also went to Mt. Lassen and saw the vents and stuff there. It last erupted in what 1917 something like that. I don’t count it out, Yellowstone erupting. Seems like its erupting now….it kinda is. Happens every month somewhere on the planet. I read several Science journal articles on it today.

        • I have read a report a couple of years back that they determined the last time it has erupted was over 600k years and 1.2 or 1.4 millions years ago so they are doing the average and assume its ready but I hope not in my life time. The report indicated that they determined the eruption by ashe through out the mid east that is carried from the jet stream.

          • Same way Mt. Saint Helens went. Jet Stream. but really there are lots of new activity in the Park, its well documented the thing is, they don’t want to alarm anyone. Till they see a big increase.

  96. I read somewhere that anyone within 300 miles of Yellowstone would be killed within minutes of a full blown eruption….I am only 406 miles away…and right in the path of the snake river flow corridor…everything the volcano spits out that “flows” is going to go right down the Snake River plain….

  97. Hi Michael, How you doing? Yes Life and Treasure hunts can change in a min. God I hope not. I hope its just letting off a little steam…Like Dals blog….LOL

    Goofy did you hear from Dal Yet? Does he have the treasure?

    • Nope, I haven’t heard a thing……..He and Fenn are probably having a great time looking through the chest. 😥

  98. Poem revision:

    A Searcher’s Tale

    Well, I too have gone alone in there,
    To search for Fenn’s, famous treasure trove.
    His secret is no longer kept, I swear,
    I think I’ve solved his poem of gold.

    The next two stanzas have come to a halt,
    But, will be completed in the next round,
    Not much longer, still a time to balk,
    The gold will be found not far from town.



    So I heard his call and I listened real good.
    My effort is worth finding the cold bronze chest.
    I will be brave when I get into the wood,
    Because the wood is the lining, inside the old chest.

    And, inside the chest lays a fortune in gold,
    For me to claim when I am so bold.
    Then he’ll give me gold title, so I can rest.
    But, he leaves me to fight the big bad I.R.S.


    To be completed soon.

    • Ritt!!!!!! Love love love this. Keep going with it. I can hear music with it too! Going to make a great song!!

      • Donna, you are my only fan.. Thanks….I just got back from a days search. I believe I have found the correct blaze and it’s no piece of cake from there. There is so much more after the blaze. I’ve done it tired and, believe me, I am now weak from going up that creek. Donna, have you been out searching?

        • New Mex only, but headed to YS in May! Hey, good luck! Don’t forget, he was 79-80 when he hid it, so take it easy. Maybe there is a back road along or near the creek ff might have used. Good luck!! ¥Peace¥

          • Yes, I you’re right, Donna. There is a back road up along the creek. I was just kidding about going up the creek, but I did walk around for a couple of miles around the blaze looking for that elusive” tarry scant” to cease my quest. I just need that last piece of puzzle to fit. Thanks!

            Good luck in your search and be safe ……heard that Yellowstone was a bubbling more than usual. Don’t go it alone as I did; it can be a little scary….I came across some fresh bear and mountain lion tracks in a lower state. Stay vigilant and be safe. Peace, peace.

  99. Anyone think that maybe why grown adults looking for buried treasure haven’t found it is because the clues and poem reference a video game and that’s how kids have a advantage???

    • Ummm.. IMO, prob not. He dislikes video games because it keeps kids from going outside and being kids. I know my son plays Watchmen: the end is nigh. Yeah! I thought about that too, but nah!

    • I dont’ think so but I am pretty clueless on video games. Whenever I go on searches, my kids were always way ahead of me on the trail even with me yelling to them to stay close. I would be looking in a stream or beside a bank somewhere and then look up and one of my sons would be at the top of the ridge just in front of us. How did he get up there so fast or at all, I would wonder. Course, they are pretty much all late teens now with two in their early 20s but they weren’t any different when they were young. Always they wanted to go on adventures. We have BLM land right behind us and I would pack them a lunch or they would pack one themselves and take off exploring. Every movie they saw or book they read that they liked, they would be outside trying to re-enact it. Great imagination. But I didn’t have money when they were very young for all the electronic things that other kids had so they grew up like kids in my generation did. Outside. I tend to think maybe that’s what Forrest meant. Kids are always game for getting out there and doing things that just the thought of will make an adult tired.

  100. Booked my flight to search for searchers 😉 Heading to Florida(can you believe I’m going EAST????) to visit my Mom near Clearwater. I’m going to try and have a meet up with some searchers down there. Anyone from that area?

    • Here you go Becky…….I added “Nine Clues Archive” to the “Searcher Discussions” on the side bar. When you select that it should bring up the old discussions.

      • thank you for doing that Goofy. i had no idea why i was getting an email about it but now i know

        revisiting those old threads was entertaining to say the least

  101. I agree Cloud. I think that’s what he meant when he posted this a couple weeks ago. He can so easily paint a picture with his words. He should have been a travel writer like his friend Margie.

    The mountains are full of activity that fills me with wonder. One of my earliest recollections as a boy was to turn over a rotting log in the forest and watch as a hundred little critters scurried around trying to decide what to do. It’s nature in its rawest moment. I find solace in the solitude of the trees.

    • He does have a way with words, I agree. I love reading the things he wrote. I have to say to those that haven’t read his new book, Too Far to Walk, that they have done themselves a great disservice. Not only is it filled with more stories that paint wonderful pictures in our heads, I am of the opinion that where Thrill of The Chase has subtle hints, this new book has blatant ones.

  102. Hi everyone-
    Back late last night. The trip was great. Met a couple of searchers in Montana. stopped to gawk at a couple of great winter mountain scenes. Chatted with a few ranchers about living in the mountains. Explored a little. Xcountry skied about 10 hours. Saw some wildlife. Ate some fine chili and perfect homemade, hot apple pie. Ice fished for trout..caught one and ate em up. Stayed out one night under the stars. Did not find any treasure and had a lovely winter week…

    Now I have emails to read and blog stuff to catch up on..
    So I’m still behind. I have a couple of posts…one from Chip (Forrest’s nephew in Montana) and one searcher adventure that I didn’t get to post before I left…

    I have another presentation to give tomorrow in Everson, WA…I think I will be talking to myself…Everson is a small town…I hope someone shows up so I can give a signed copy of TFTW away…

      • Glad you are back, Dal…glad you didn’t find the treasure, but sounds like you had your share of thrills! No offense, Goofy, live you too! XO. ¥Peace¥

    • Your opportunity to get away makes lots of us jealous. 🙂
      By sharing some of your trip with us let’s us imagine how great it was, thanks!

      Can you share any insight as to why lately many are now targeting Montana? Again, thanks!

    • Welcome back Dal! It sounds like you had a great time in MT Xcountry skiing. I was looking at the live web cam of Old Faithful (the camera pans around a bit to show more of the area) last week and saw some skiers going REALLY close to a herd of buffalo and I thought how dangerous that can be. Did you get close to any wildlife? I really want to go to Yellowstone in the winter, but not to ski. I’ll take the wimpy snow coach instead. 🙂 I understand they can get up close and personal to the wildlife sometimes.

      • Thanks CJ-
        I did see some wildlife but not inside the park. I have never been to Old Faithful in winter. Like you, I hope to get there some day. I do plan to go back this spring for the spring bird migration…I am excited by the stories I hear..

        • I never thought of a bird migration through that area. I usually think of the Pacific Flyway and the Central and Mississippi flyways because of where we live. Where do you go to see the migration through the Rockies? If it occurs in May, maybe we can see it on our way to MN.

  103. Love the idea of crosscountry skis. I didn’t even think about that as an option.
    Glad your back safe 😉 We read about the rumbling there, but that was before you left I think. Also, they have over 40 inches of snow on the ground. Better chances in July when it finally melts if you go back to that area *wink*.

  104. Becasue Dal was and it’s not able to be searched at the moment. So people are going goofy about it, I’d guess.

  105. Special-
    Since the poem does not say begin it in the state that starts with a “C”, I guess it’s as good as any of the other three and certainly has plenty of warm water…
    But really…I can only imagine that people are putting things together in a way that points to Montana…maybe next month it will be Wyoming…
    If you believe that Forrest was making connections when he wrote the book “To Far To Walk”…and if you noticed there is a line in the poem about something being “to far to walk”…and if you note where Forrest mentions that “too far to walk” for him really is…
    Then Montana seems like a good possibility assuming Forrest intended all those ideas to connect…
    People that are convinced otherwise will continue looking elsewhere…
    I can’t be the only simpleton out there that thought maybe something might be connected…
    and like I said earlier..Steph and I are setting up a booth at that spot this summer selling hot dogs and T-shirts because we expect it to be crowded with searchers…

    • Dal, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

      I for one do not consider you as a simpleton, that is why your response bears attention.

      Since my search will not likely be in Montana this summer, have you guys considered a 1-800 number or maybe a web site where we can order a T-shirt and a hot dog. I’ll always support the effort.

      Good luck to all, and may someone eventually find “it”!

    • Dal a lot of things youve been saying lately have been making a lot more sense as far as how the clues go together and wwh

      you had me a little worried.

    • I said that TFTW x-miles was a clue to the poem when the book first came out, and I got poo poo’d that that wasn’t the hint he let slip in the book. Now, everyone is thinking it was a good one! Ok…so, I said it first! Do I get a free t-shirt?!

      • Donna-

        I don’t think it’s possible that what you are talking about is the mistake-clue that is in the book Forrest has mentioned. The mistake-clue is something else and I think it is much subtler. The title of the book being TFTW and the line in the poem that refers to TFTW and his story about TFTW were not a mistake…
        In fact…many doubt that his story and the title have anything to do with the line in the poem…and are therefore not even a clue…
        So…no…no t-shirt…unless you find the clue put in the book by mistake…

        • Never said it was the mistake-clue (I found that one), but said it may answer the question “How far is not too far but too far to walk”. Again, IMO, so I’m sticking with it. I’ll buy YOU a tshirt when I find the treasure…in WY! ¥Peace¥

    • OK, I’ll bite. Why can you only offer mustard???

      Dal mentioned the term “simpleton”, I feel like I’m going to find out what that’s like. 🙂

      • I figured Dal might know since he’s originally from Michigan. An authentic Chicago dog is only supposed to have mustard on it.

        Kind of funny, because my brother makes a big deal about that. Him and his wife went to Wrigley for a game and she came back with some dogs and he accidentally took hers and took a big bite and I guess his face went white. All this time she had been hiding ketchup under the dog being that she was from Indiana and didn’t grow up with the same hot dog “rules” LOL….

        • That’s so funny!

          I worked in the Loop for five and a half years, and didn’t know that. I lived in the suburbs.

          Give me plain, chili, kraut or as it is called in AZ, a Sonoran hot dog! I like them all. 🙂

  106. I pictured you soaking away in a Swank Hot Spring Resort, if you found THE Treasure! Well did you at least get to soak? Not sure if you like too, but I Love it berry muchy…..

  107. I M O…I think the x-mile in tftw is correct for the not too far, but not at the same Madison-Hegben location. Another canyon. Good luck all! ¥Peace¥

  108. Dal or anyone . . . Buried, or not buried?
    I know this has been discussed many times before, but
    look at it one more time. It may help to put this issue to bed.

    In the TTOTC, page 125, Forrest writes,

    “I will rest through all of time and space, pillowed down
    and scented in.” Meaning, he will be buried.

    He buries the bells and jars, but not the chest? Hmm!

    I think the treasure chest is buried in a protective casing of
    some sort, i.e., in a clay pot. Go back and listen to the
    HD Net interview with Jennifer London, she ask Forrest,

    “How did you pick that particular spot to bury the chest?”

    Forrest responds,

    “Well, I don’t want give to many more clues,
    but, ah, it’s, it’s, it’s a very special place… to me, and, and, otherwise
    I would not have done it. I mean… I couldn’t just take it out…, umm
    bury it in the ground someplace where I didn’t know where I was.
    I think that was a crucial part of it. ”

    He says he couldn’t just bury it anywhere. Why didn’t he say he
    couldn’t just hide it anywhere? I think he let it slip out that it is buried.
    Doesn’t this prove that he did bury it? What do you think, Dal?
    Anyone else care to comment on this? Please do.

    • Lois-
      I don’t think it proves anything. It is suggestive of the idea that it is buried. But he has also said other things that are suggestive of it not being buried. He has actually said it was buried twice that I am aware of in interviews. This certainly makes me curious but I keep my options open as I do with home of Brown and the blaze and the wood…
      To me…
      “I will rest through all of time and space, pillowed down
      and scented in.”, suggests a small, dry cave with sweetgrass bedding and smelly herbs like the indians used that keep rodents away. It does not suggest a hole in the ground.

      I believe it’s important not to get so locked into one idea that you cannot think creatively out in the field.

      • “I will rest through all of time and space, pillowed down
        and scented in.” Could that be interpreted as: being at a wake or funeral, “he died”. He will rest throughout eternity ( time and space will still live on, yet he does not). Yes, he will be pillowed down, lying in a coffin. Scented in: embalming and Roses thrown into his grave before buried into the ground.

        Just a thought…..

        As far as buried and hidden, IMO, I think it’s not buried below the earth but buried under rocks or “sandwiched” between something. For example: I buried $5.00 in my sock drawer.

        • Rather than below ground, or even on the surface, maybe FF is having a laugh on all of us and its 100′ up in a tree. 😉 in the wood, if you’re brave.

          • Great thought, Mapsmith and Ritt, do we remember how many bells he “so called” buried? Perhaps, important times in His life? (Where the treasure lies, could also be important, “the title to his poem”). Like the movie, going from one telephone call to the next, to find where you should end your quest. Still think the missing “ball of string” has something to do with this chase. Sorry, just thinking outside the box, lol. Or thinking outside the “boks”, just saying….

          • Map-
            Be pretty hard for a three year old to walk right up to it and pick it up if she could lift it…if it was 100feet up a tree..just saying…

      • Thanks, Dal for yours and everyone’s thoughts on this subject. Did Forrest say that one of the bells was buried
        close to the site of the treasure? I thought I heard that somewhere. Map, I doubt he could climb any tree with the weight of the treasure, lol. Maybe its pillowed down in a pine box. Mm mm…. the smell of pine, so sweet.

        Alan Seeger wrote a poem, “I Have a Rendezvous with Death” in the third stanza he said, “God knows ’twere better to be deep pillowed in silk and scented down.” And, in Fenn’s book, TTOTC pg 125, he said, “I will rest through all of time and space, pillowed down and scented in,” Just the opposite of him saying pillowed in and scented down. Could this maybe be a hint to where he hid the treasure?

        In any case, Dal, you’re right, we shouldn’t get locked into one idea, unless that idea is confirmed by having the treasure in your hands. Thanks everyone.

        BTW, he didn’t correct Jennifer as he did the with the other reporters. Just saying.

    • Yup. Buried. Just like the bells. Agree with your opinion.

      Anyone know if any bells have been found?
      I wonder if perhaps the secret burial sites of the bells are actually markers related to the treasure…..

      • Mapsmith,

        I also thought the bells might have been put in the ground…like a scavenger hunt and once one bell was found it would lead you to the next clue. Maybe FF ran out of time to do it this way and went with Plan B which was the poem with the clues. I am still wondering about the bronze jars and what the significance is with the olive jars? Can someone please help? Thank you.

          • G-Guy,
            I think if you started with the bells they will eventually get there, Kind of step by step. But if you can answer all the clues the FF’s poem you will get a bullseye! I have some pretty good ideas and I can’t wait till the springtime to see how close I am. I feel like I have answered four of the clues…

          • No, more of the clues being a map to the first bronze jug, with it being buried with the second clue to the next jar, with the final jar pointing to the chest’s final spot.

      • Mapsmith,
        Do you think the bells may be buried in NM, CO, WY and MT? I think one of the bells might have been close to when chasers where finding FF’s mark on aspen trees in NM….

  109. I think to suggest that this means it is buried is a mistake of logic. He says he COULDN’T just bury it someplace where he didn’t know where he was. Furthermore…he has argued to define our terms. What is the difference between buried and entombed or sepultured? If I dig a hole in the desert, and remove the dirt from the immediate area, and cover the hole with a large boulder, or a camouflaged piece of wood…is that buried? It is underground…but buried? a matter of perspective I think.

    • Micheal I read a lot of your comments and find them sightful and your right it is hard to really lean one way or another on it being buried or not.

    • What is the meaning of buried? Just my point. I think, if it is hidden under “anything” then you could say that it was buried. That’s why he can’t answer that question. There is no correct answer because “buried” has not been defined by anyone asking him, at least not to my knowlege. Has anyone asked Forrest to define buried?

      • That might be why Forrest has a hard time with this question to give a answer,

    • You’re right Michael D, buried as in “the car keys are buried under a pile of magazines on the table.” Their not under ground, but above ground on a table.

      • G-Guy,

        I think it’s got to be someplace with extreme significance to FF and it has to be important enough FF would want his bones to be buried there also. I keep thinking about FF’s life he has been successful in collecting, the AF, Art, writing novels, an archeologist and a person who is leaving a positive impression on everyone he meets or hears about his life story.

  110. Forrest said he buried the Bells, three feet down. He said they might get found in A thousand years? well if ever. You cannot find these with most metal detectors.

    I wonder do you think there are clue’s to the Bells and Jar’s?
    Also…..I think the two clues in the books about the string, which was all tied together and the chapter with the students with ropes….Is interesting. Kinda maybe saying…..One thing is connected to the other. I know its teachers with ropes, but it was students. I don’t know just my thoughts.
    So clues to Bells? Or No?

    • Lou Lee

      Was the “and the chapter with the students with ropes”, in TTOTC or TFTW?

    • I believe there are no clues to the treasure in the bells or jars. I asked Forrest if he mentioned the treasure spot in his 20,000 word autobiography. His reply was,”No sir, it is not in writing or in the mind of anyone but me. f”…. I doubt it if he gives any clues in it.

      • Ritt,

        So what do you think FF’s plan B is, if it’s not written down somewhere? I was hoping that maybe a bronze olive jar might also have a copy of his biography in it, just in case no one was able to find FF’s trove.

        • I have to go with Dal’s assessment of Mr. Fenn as he is a meticulous planner and he leaves nothing to chance. He has to have a plan B and I do think that there’s more to the bells and the jars than just having them buried in the ground. They are going to be like time capsules which will be found and people will remember FF when found. If they do have artifacts in them (the bronze jars) I hope there’s a listing of where FF found everything…I am sure there will be because FF’s archeological records are top notch.

        • IfI understand it right, the broze jars (which do have the autobiography in them) are not olive jars.
          The small glass jar in the TC has a copy of the autobiography in it, and may or may not have held olives.
          The direct reference to olive jar is in TTOTC, when “John Charles whatever” waved it in his face.

        • Plan B is no one finds it. Plan A is he wrote a puzzlehunt poem that is solvable. 😉

          • Mapsmith,

            I don’t think FF is like that…he’s put too much time and effort into this. Especially if he wants people to remember him and his Legacy… Maybe the only way you will find the treasure is to have a copy of the biography that’s not the chest. Remember the only one who knows where the treasure is Forrest himself…

  111. I wrote this poem about my searches, but really
    it applies to all of us searchers. I bet most all
    searchers have gone through the same feelings
    and emotions. Here’s to all you Fenn’ers out there.

    North of Santa Fe

    A Searcher’s Tale

    Well, I too have gone alone in there,
    Searching for Fenn’s famous treasure trove.
    His secret is no longer kept, I swear,
    I think I’ve solved his poem of gold.

    The next two stanzas have come to a halt,
    But, it will be finished by the next round,
    Not much longer, still a time to balk,
    The gold will be found not far from Town.

    Halt . . . From warm waters halt to canyon down,
    I began it again from below the curved roads,
    No paddle to row, but a shovel to cart around.
    The rain was high, I was carrying heavy loads.

    Halt . . . The creek went on, there was no end,
    It simply opened up to a wonderful sight.
    I saw the blaze; I was fully amazed . . . amen.
    The way was no place for the meek, he’s right.

    I thought I was wise, I found the right place,
    Rocks, trees, brush, water, hints and more,
    Regrettably, it was not the end of my chase;
    Look quickly down would be the ultimate chore.

    Hanging around for that elusive marvel gaze,
    It’s here somewhere, Fenn’s rainbow to cease,
    I’ll never give up searching nearby this blaze.
    The thrill is for our pleasure so we can find peace.

    So I heard his call and I listened real good.
    My effort is worth finding the cold bronze chest.
    I will be brave when I get into the wood,
    Because the wood is the lining inside the old chest.

    And inside the chest lays a fortune in gold,
    For me to claim when I am so bold.
    Then he’ll give me gold title, so I can rest,
    But, he leaves me to fight the big bad I.R.S.


  112. I don’t believe it is possible to ‘solve’ the poem because the poem is not a puzzle. To me it is more like a self-guided tour with Mr. Fenn talking about points of interest along the way. But here’s the rub, to successfully complete the tour you must understand Fenn-speak.

    I feel the key to understanding the Fenn-speak is imagination. Take a look at this mimetolith.
    From one angle it appears to be a pile of rocks, but with a little imagination it becomes a face. Now add Fenn-speak and it becomes the mountain man John Brown at home in the woods. Imagination is a child’s world. They can’t see condensed water vapor, they see buffalo smoke. Buffalo smoke and mimetoliths are part of Fenn’s lexicon and hinted at in his book.

    I think armchair adventures will be disappointed; it’s not like the movies. To have a successful tour one must be there constantly asking their imagination, “Does that rock face resemble a blazed horse’s head?” and not musing at home, “What does the code word ‘blaze’ mean?” Being there, imagination, and persistence may be the only tools needed to complete the tour.

  113. When der Fenner says, “good luck finding this place”
    we smile smile right in der Fenner’s face
    When Herr dal-er says, “I haven’t found a trace”
    we smile smile right in Herr dal-er’s face
    Are we not the seekers-Fenn?
    Very pure seekers-Fenn?
    Yah, ve ist the seekers-Fenn
    Super duper seekers Fenn
    Did he hide it in the wood?
    Would you find it if you could?
    Yah, he hid it in the wood
    When we find it, we’ll feel good!

    • Never searched there but looked at the sink and then went down to the state park and walked around the interpretive center and pond..
      Never thought to search there..

      • Tell Fenn about it?

        It’s a enticing little spot I must say, and I’m not a WY supporter.

    • I have, see my entry in “Ladies Only” My story about hiking at Sinks. I went there after Forrest talked about that area. Not my key location, but what a wonderful place!

    • That is so darn funny! I laugh so hard… still laughing as I post this. Are we all nuts? Thanks Dal!

          • Tarheel-
            No. Forrest has said that the original poem was written the year he was diagnosed with cancer. That was 1988. But the original poem looked different than the poem we have today because it talked about taking the chest but leaving his bones alone…among other differences.

            He has said that he spent 15 years perfecting the poem. 1988 plus 15 takes us to 2003 but the poem was not published til 2010 so it is most logical that he gave the poem a rest for a few years because he had other interesting things to do with his new lease on life then think about hiding that treasure. It is also possible that he simply did not use 15 consecutive years working on the poem…but instead worked on it a total of 15 years over a 22 year period.

            My best guess is that the 15 years is just his estimation. So it may or may not be accurate. We do know that it was started in 1988 and finished about 2010 when TTOTC book was published with the poem inside it.

  114. OMG!!! That is SO funny, Dal! You need to put that on youtube! I can’t stop laughing! (Crossing legs). Gotta go! ¥Peace¥ 😉

  115. Aurora, What a super toddy after a long day of searching. Even my dog perked up and he’s a King George Spaniel, not a German Shepherd or Dobbie drop in him! Thanks

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