Scrapbook Sixty Eight…


MAY 2014

Many searchers have thought that warm waters halt at a dam because water being released through flues near the bottom of the dam is much colder than water on the surface of the lake. I have discussed around that subject with several people in the last few days and am concerned that not all searchers are aware of what has been said. So to level the playing field to give everyone an equal chance I will say now that WWWH is not related to any dam.  ff

321 thoughts on “Scrapbook Sixty Eight…

  1. So sorry to all those who’s dam solution just got blown up. Any one else sense an end game is in play?

    • jcm-
      I visited with Forrest yesterday and talked with him about folks on the blogs saying that he is interested in having the chest found. He told me that wasn’t true. It still makes no difference to him if the chest is found next week or in 1,000 years.

      • Thanks for sharing that Dal. Are there any other good tidbits you can toss our way that he may have said in conversation?

      • Maybe we should all walk around with forrest and have casual conversation on a daily basis. I feel like were waiting on” Jim Cantore to give us the latest update on the eye of the hurricane”.

    • Hey there Dal: I was just wondering if you knew approximately when the last time FF piloted a helicopter and at what age he stopped flying them was (if indeed he did stop)? Just curious 🙂 Thanks, Tim from WV.

      • Tim-
        It is my understanding that Forrest never converted his military helicopter pilot’s certification to a civilian rotorcraft certification. At the least, that would have involved taking an oral and written exam and possibly a test flight with an examiner. At worst he may have been required to attend civilian helicopter school. The determination as to which route a helicopter pilot has to take is often dependent on helicopter hours. Without an FAA rotorcraft certificate he could not have legally flown a civilian helicopter. It is not a simple pass from military pilot to civilian pilot. There are differences between military aviation and general aviation. Not so much in the aircraft piloting as in the military vs FAA General Aviation rules and regs.The two are dissimilar in many somewhat surprising ways.

        So, what I am saying is that as far as I know, Forrest did not fly helicopters after leaving the Air Force. I recognize that this might cause some flux for those who feel he used a helicopter to transport Indulgence to some remote location. I don’t believe that event occurred. Perhaps I am wrong.

  2. Thank you Major Fenn I never personally considered a dam a clue because a dam is a structure too and lake water in Rocky Mountains is typically “cold” on top or down below. I hope to meet you in a month or so and give you back your bracelet…thanks for the clarification in the interest of fairness but I think some people may be able to find your chest this summer!

    • Clarification – my previous post was deleted. It had an “n” after dam. Was supposed to be funny, but I guess it got killed.

    • it does seem like it. this play on words only seems to reinforce my solution tho. f may not care if its found but i know we do, or at least i do. if i can get there, it would be great to find this chest and go peacefully as i do each day, most days. but with all this info out there, and the amount of info available out there, how can it not be close to a champion. i just pray to the stars it will be there for me when i arrive at that very specific where. flashlight, check; sandwedge, check; in the wood, check.

  3. Well, …dam. I am now officially down one very fine (I thought) solution.

  4. I’m dam grateful for ff’s commitment to fairness. I was dam sure I was on the right track. Oh well.

    • “Associated with a man made structure” is confusing though b/c Forest obviously drove a car and parked in a parking lot-which are man made.

      • Bee-
        I believe Forrest was referring to the clues in the poem when he made that remark. Too me, it does not appear that the car nor a parking lot are clues in the poem.

  5. Forrest, I knew it! I told that to YOU KNOW WHO…..but they did not listen, Now they will…thanks so much for the clue. Forrest….
    Now could you just eliminate lets say Wyo. or Montana? ONE OF THEM? Heeheehee. Your great!

    And Oh DEAR FORREST……I went to see THE DUDE! But I did not stay there. It looks much grander in your picture.

  6. Uhuh…and I got ignored when I said not a dam. Glad my solve is still viable! Thank you, Mr. Fenn, for clearing that up for the chasers that didn’t believe in a whisper!
    That makes me feel more confident than ever!

        • I just got back from there. Don’t go down any back roads the ice and snow is really really bad and you won’t know it until your half wAy down the road and can’t turn around so be safe Around town is all good tho .

          • Thanks! Thanks for being a great person, and helping out other searchers!

  7. Well, I for one, am dam nervous. Why is Forrest giving out all this dam information all of a sudden. I think he should let all those dam people figure out their own dam clues! Now I have more dam people that might figure out the clues and chase less dam clues in the other dam direction. I’m dam tired of it!

    • Michael I’m curious but from the story I read about your hunt maybe I’m wrong but I thought maybe you are looking around man made structures.

      “No need to dig up the old outhouses, the treasure is not associated with any structure.”

  8. I made another small trip but the weather is changing so I have to cut my trip shorter than I planned and this week I start a new job. Thus, I won’t be able to make another trip for a year at best.

    I am looking for someone of high integrity, who has read the book TTOTC, who is looking in Montana or YNP, can keep my solve our secret, owns a 4 wheel drive pickup and has probably 3 consecutive days to spare who wants to partner up with my solve by continuing the ground work. Should this partner find it, I would like credit for solving it you get credit for finding it, split 50:50 the non-unique items (gold eagles, placer nuggets and loose gems) and split 50:50 what comes from the proceeds of the items deemed unique – everything else. Mr. Fenn knows my solve and it is rock solid.

    If those 6 things apply and you’re interested, please email me at

    Looking forward to meeting you.


  9. “Where Warm Waters Halt is not related to any dam.” -ff oh i hear a whisper! 😉

  10. Thanks for the clarification Fenn……..Would you mind repeating the 5 states in the Rockies where the chest is not…….Just so everyone knows. 🙂

  11. In some respects, it’s unfortunate that Forrest is reiterating already known facts. I’d rather the people who didn’t pay attention continue down their paths that don’t match the facts. This gives people who do pay attention the leg up they deserve. 😉

  12. I find this to be a very curious piece of information provided by Mr. Fenn. This is the first time that I am aware of that he provided info. simply because some people were headed in the wrong direction. Level the playing field? Really? I am going to give Mr. Fenn the benefit of doubt and believe that he posted this dam information because of safety concerns for people who may have taken that train of thought a little too far. Not sure why he just didn’t say that though.

  13. I think I’m going bald. Maybe my forehead is just becoming more pronounced. I believe I have a theory (or two, or three) as to why this is happeningto me. One is that I am becoming more like ff. Another is that ff is as I am and I am just catching up to my future self. Lastly, maybe, just maybe, if we were to be peepled apart like una sebolla (i.e. the hair, the skin, the bone), you may find that our brains would look the same. I find that facinating! Wether any, none, or all of these are correct, I still like the idea of being like Senior Fenn. All of this thinking… my family and friends think I’m losing it, when I, on the other hand, know that I’m not losing it. I’ve just been peicing it all together. I don’t recall a dam ever being part of my thoughts on the chase.
    I did venture out yesterday with my beast. I didn’t even get close to my search area. I guess those Rockies will just have to keep the TC safe until I can get back there. Meanwhile, I think I will go have me some dessert while I think about what I want to eat.

  14. I would like to explore the word “associated”

    : to connect or bring into relation, as thought, feeling, memory, etc.: Many people associate dark clouds with depression and gloom.
    to join as a companion, partner, or ally: to associate oneself with a cause.
    to unite; combine: coal associated with shale.
    verb (used without object), as·so·ci·at·ed, as·so·ci·at·ing.
    to enter into union; unite.
    to keep company, as a friend, companion, or ally: He was accused of associating with known criminals.
    to join together as partners or colleagues.

    This definition does NOT prohibit the treasure being located inside a structure. It appears the focus has been on the word “structure”. Money is associated with banks. Criminals are associated with prison, etc. What is treasure associated with?

    • Southern-
      If you believe the hint that Forrest gave us when he said the treasure is not associated with any structure…and if your wall of stones is man made..than ..”no”..a man made wall is certainly a structure by my personal definition..others may disagree.

  15. My previous comment regarding the meaning of the word “associated” has disappeared, so I apologize if it pops up again…..I’m wondering about the word “associated”, instead of the the word “structure”. Associated:

    to connect or bring into relation, as thought, feeling, memory, etc.: Many people associate dark clouds with depression and gloom.
    to join as a companion, partner, or ally: to associate oneself with a cause.
    to unite; combine: coal associated with shale.
    verb (used without object), as·so·ci·at·ed, as·so·ci·at·ing.
    to enter into union; unite.
    to keep company, as a friend, companion, or ally: He was accused of associating with known criminals.
    to join together as partners or colleagues.

    Money is associated with a bank, criminals are associated with prison, etc. What is treasure associated with?

      • Belle….although Forrest says not to mess with his poem he is not saying that searchers should not think out of the box. He chooses words carefully…….just absorb each word separately. Figure out the words
        and then glue them back together. Forrest himself said all you need is a “good map”.

  16. This was meant to be a thrilling chase. Now that we are lined up toe to toe at the starting gate, its become a thrilling horse race!

  17. Thanks for the clear statement, Forrest.
    (I agree that this may be due to safety concerns, people exceeding their abilities and/or common sense. Plus, I didn’t want to think that deep-sea-diving-Dal had any advantages.)

  18. Hebgen lake has a large dam so that’s not where warm water halts that doesn’t mean it’s not in the area maybe the warm waters is a hot spring nearby also huge areas that are lower get eliminated because Fenn said the chest is above 5000 ft. I think some are waisting there time searching areas Fenn has already said the chest can’t be in but there not aware of the 5000 ft statement. One guy I spoke to was searching below 5000 until I informed him. Google earth works good for elevation.

  19. Doesn’t this statement eliminate all man made structures for places the chest could be hidden. Anyone else have a different take in this?
    “No need to dig up the old outhouses, the treasure is not associated with any structure.”

    • Ed, I think it clears up one aspect of that statement. He said the treasure is not associated with any structures.

      This statement says that WWWH is not a dam…….but does that mean that WWWH, or any of the other clues for that matter, are not associated with any structure? For example, is home of Brown not associated with any structures?

      Does anyone think the whole poem is not associated with any structures?

      • Goof-
        I am also confused by the way Forrest stated this. In the past I thought he was talking about only the treasure chest not being associated with any in – don’t bother looking in the old outhouses – and I extended that to any man made structure including man made rock walls and mine shafts..
        However, this new scrapbook entry leads me to believe that he means all nine clues in the poem are unrelated to man made structures. Which really could change the game for many, many potential solutions..
        I don’t know for certain that he means all nine clues are not associated with any man made structure…but that appears to be what he is saying..
        A clue wrapped in an enigma..until he clarifies..

        In Pagosa Springs headed home from my look in northern New Mexico..near Tres Piedras..

        • I wonder when he says level the playing field, does that mean someone is really close or alot of people are that far behind?

        • I agree…he is a man of nature. The whole purpose of the chase is the thrill of getting back to nature. I do not connect any man made structures to any of the 9 clues…IMO

        • I think the underlying meaning of Forrests statement is if your solve uses a dam as WWWH

          Then look/down again at the end of your solve to find a new WWWH.

          Focus,Focus,Focus, because a few people are focussing on the key word.


          • I’ll try this again.

            If you are wise and found the blaze, look quickly down your quest to seek.

            Blaze means trail and the trail started with WWWH

            Look quickly down and start all over again,Focus,focus,focus

            Moral of the story is that the last WWWH is not a dam but the first WWWH may very well be.

            But that would be too much of a clue.

          • How can the blaze be the trail when the treasure is directly under the blaze

        • Be careful when you “extend”.

          I do not believe (as some seem to) that Forrest is trying to trick us.

          IMO, “the treasure is not associated with any structure” simply means that the treasure itself is not in, under, directly next to, or by any other reasonable interpretation, “associated” with any structure.

          “WWWH is not related to any dam” simply means that “where warm waters halt” does not refer to a dam.

          If you have reason to believe that “home of Brown” refers to a house, nothing FF has stated precludes this. If you have reason to believe that “heavy loads and water high” refers to a bridge (or even a dam), then likewise, nothing he has said precludes this.

          Not that I believe any of these refer to a structure, but I don’t have the chest.


        • Maybe in his talks about dams with people he told them WWWH has nothing to do with dams and now to level the playing field he is telling everyone else. I don’t think he is saying WWWH is not associated with structures I didn’t get that from his statement.

      • Goofy, I thought that the outhouse statement only meant that the RESTING PLACE of the treasure was not associated with a structure but that WWWH or HOB etc could still be associated with a structure. Even this statement only says WWWH is not a dam. I’m still a little confused. 🙂

        I am very curious who Forrest might have been talking to and telling them that WWWH was not a dam that compelled him to make this statement to us also. It makes me wonder if some people are trying to get info out of him and he inadvertently slipped up so he felt he had to tell all of us?

        • Throw me in with the confused group. But I love a challenge, and now I’m ‘all in’ and playing for the pot.

          • No, no, no. He didn’t hide any pot. That’s illegal. (Unless it was in Colorado.) It does sound like you’re confused. No, wait . . . maybe I’m confused.

      • “I have discussed around that subject with several people in the last few days and am concerned that not all searchers are aware of what has been said. So to level the playing field to give everyone an equal chance I will say now that WWWH is not related to any dam.”

        When he says “not all searchers are aware of what has been said” perhaps he is referring to what’s been said with the several people he has talked to about WWWH not being a dam. Now, he feels it is best to tell everyone else as well, to make it fair. Maybe he is not referring to “not associated with any structure” when he says “what has been said”.

        I hope he clarifies.

        • Yes, unless he clarifies differently, I believe that he is saying he is concerned that not all searchers are aware of what has been said WHILE discussing WWWH with several people in the last few days. This is why he has to “level the playing field”, and tell everybody it’s not a dam. He would not be leveling the playing field if he was just re-emphasizing that the treasure is not associated with any structure.

          So, this is what we do know:

          1. The treasure is not associated with any man-made structure. (he didn’t say the clues, or route to the treasure….just the treasure)

          2. WWWH is not a dam. (not that it can’t be a man made structure….just not a dam)

          That’s what I’m going with for now, unless he says otherwise.

  20. I knew it wasn’t at a dam thank u forrest for letting others know !!!!!!!:) maybe the chest will found next month I sure hope it’s at my location can’t wait I’m counting the weeks down .

    • IMO Police !!! Pull Over !! You were spotted doin’ 90 in an “I knew it” zone. You should have been in the IMO lane. We won’t ticket you this time. But please be careful.

  21. This is ALL IMO…The whole poem is not associated with any structures….the HOB is a Metaphor, or a simile…I can’t remember which one from school…But the reason Brown is capitalized is because the HOB is a proper noun. As an example, I could call Crater Lake in Oregon the Home of Blue…or Pikes Peak in Colorado Home of Red…this is how I believe the interpretation of HOB plays out. The same can be said for where warm waters halt…This is not to be taken literally in my opinion. WWWH is like a riddle’s answer or a joke’s punchline that only makes sense AFTER you discover the place that the riddle/joke is referring to. As an example, Indian Bathtub, or Geyser Basin, or Firehole River. It’s like a crossword puzzle clue. Seven across: Where warm waters halt (2 words) eleven letters….Oh! Geyser Basin.
    So how do we pick the correct WWWH and HOB you ask? Well, If I told you that, I’d have way more company than I wanted in my search area.

    • Exactly. The poem is a metaphor or more correctly an allegorical tale. It’s a riddle as Michael said. Warm waters aren’t halted by a dam and are not the confluence of tworivers, etc. The answers are not literal.

        • But in scrapbook 62, FF says riddles “will not assist anyone to the treasure”….

  22. My question is why was he discussing this with anyone? I thought mum was the word to anyone concerning the clues and solves.

  23. I dibs first handshake with Cognito when we all gather at Forrest’s gallery to celebrate the finding of the chest. Because now that Mr. Fenn has clarified that WWWH doesn’t mean a dam, it’s going to be SOOOooooooooo easy to find the chest. And my uncle’s Obama.

    • Please tell your uncle to bring our troupes back cause I would like my daughter back thank you 🙂

      • That was all metaphorical. Sorry. Never met the man. But I hope your daughter gets home soon. Mine arrived from college a week ago (she’s 3,000 mi from home.) So I feel for you.

  24. @MacSweeny – funny pun regarding playing for the pot, which brings up an interesting point. With Colorado legalizing pot, many vehicles are being stopped and searched as they cross state borders out of CO into other states. One innocent victim had the doors removed from his car by searching officials. If you’re trying to quietly walk away with gold from CO it may be difficult.

    • Wow, bummer. Because Colorado IS my state of interest. Looks like I will have to hire some Navajo friends to smuggle it across the border off-road somewhere back into NM and then AZ. That is based of course on a big assumption. 🙂
      OK. Full-disclosure. I’m really Norwegian. MacSweeny is the nick-name I was called by growing up. Thanks for the info NG.

  25. I like the whole allegory thought regarding the poem, because nothing else seems to be working….so why not? I finally have a solution that started from a completely different angle and it finally makes sense out of every line in the poem including the most puzzling of all. And that is the line…”just take the chest and go in peace” . For this line to make sense in a poem that follows some sort of directional and sequential order basically means the last two stanzas either contribute absolutely nothing or logic suggests this only makes sense depending on which direction you come at the treasure from. Once you have a spot in mind, you can get there by different routes. The line states “if” you found the blaze. I suppose at this juncture you can keep going with the poem sequence until you do find the blaze.

    Which brings us to the most important question of all.

    I would like to know what people think the “blaze” might be. Anyone willing to offer up a possibility? All my previous searches had a “flame” or “pimento” shaped feature that could be seen on GE. Now I believe the “blaze” may be an object that Mr. Fenn placed there and certainly will not be seen on a map or GE.

    I still think this is the most difficult part of the poem, because unless you find the blaze, you will not find the treasure, and I do not know how you can be “confident” before you go unless you can see it on a map or google earth.

    My current thought on the blaze cannot be seen on a map or google earth, therefore I am not confident. QED

    • Windsurfer,

      Not sure if this will help you at all…

      I can give you a possibility you may not have considered…

      My blaze was derived from the poem itself…I can’t describe the method or what it is…I feel you would rather discover it yourself if you can in any event…

      I can say mine is not an object placed by Mr. Fenn nor will it be found on a map or from GE…

      Should you find the same blaze, believe me your confidence will soar dramatically…

      I can only repeat Mr. Fenn’s words, “everything you need is in the poem”… 🙂

      • Samsmith, are you of the opinion that there are two paths in the poem, and perhaps two blazes as well? The first is from the poem and the second is in the field?

        • Michael D,
          Tried to reply earlier and it got lost I guess…trying again…

          Gee, This is difficult to put into words…While I can understand the duality many find in the poem(I too was once in that camp), it really depends on what you believe clues 1 – 9 should be…

          My entire concept of the poem was turned upside down when I collaborated with my now silent partner…He explained a few things I had not noticed…How he figured this out I do not know…Starting was the trick…

          For a modest percentage he started me and asked me to finish it…Then he vanished!…I’m still bewildered…Just know I owe him a lot if this works out…

          I learned to read the poem in a different fashion and the results were so specific that I gave no more thought to secondary or dual interpretations of the poem…I can see only our path and our blaze…It must do…

          Hope this is good enough for you… 🙂


      • Thank you for your insights samsmith….a derivation from the poem itself…who woulda thought. I will give it a go.

      • Hmmm. IMO , the home of Brown is in the book.
        (SO many great interpretations possible!)

    • I think there is more than one blaze…..there is a main one, but there are clues to arrive at that blaze. It is a connect the dots…..Arrive at the location…he already said google map will not find the exact location. See something, look further, etc. Then, you see something that helps you know that you have arrived at the exact spot. I think tarry scant means that it is a place that you need to leave ASAP…..maybe someone else can “stumble” on you or see you getting it?

      • It is connected with the dots! I have always thought this! Like the ball of string all connected.

      • SB,

        The Blaze, when the conditions are just right, emits a certain sound, a cadence, if you will.
        When I look deeply I am able to discern a faint rainbow. Simply amazing! Very soon, I will
        peacefully go and just maybe I will find myself a bronze chest somewhere nearby.


        • ck,
          i like your confidence. your whisper makes much sense to me. just hope i will be there sooner than you! 😉

  26. Again Forrest, nice try

    but im not dissuaded, i know where your treasure is and im going there this year

        • Well , that’s a tricky answer. …CO, WY and MT are technically all mentioned. I suppose you’re referring to ch 21/22 and Holden’s ranch plan ?

        • Then you sir, are in the correct state…and that concerns the heck outa me…you and Samsmith better say howdy if we run into each other in the field!

          • We can sit and spin yarns over a brewsky if’n it’s to your liking…

            Although I was hoping for no crowds!…lol… 🙂

        • Chris Yates-

          I wonder if there is a cliff at the end of that “level playing field”.

          I heard him say “WWWH is not related to any dam”; I heard him whisper “playing field.”

          Why add both “level playing field” and “give everyone an equal chance”?

          Probably over thinking again.

          • to give what appears to be a huge clue at this stage of the game doesnt make a lot of sense

            if you think he is trying to bring this to a conclusion it would, but imo, that isnt the case

            this info is more likely to hinder than to help anyone

            he is trying to trip up some people who are getting close

            this is the kind of ‘leveling the playing field’ that is really being attempted here

          • just to be clear, it may be a briiliant counter move by the game maker

            i dont have any problem with that and i am thankful for the chance to play. Forrest is a worthy opponent. more worthy than i, but i may be able to beat his game

  27. Dal..

    Did the statement you posted a direct quote from an email from Forrest or did you take note when you met with him? Just curious. I never thought that a dam was part of my solve.

  28. None of the stanzas can be thrown out…NONE of them….They are All important to finding the trove. There may however, be one or two lines within a stanza that is filler….or just so well written as to be uncrackable by me thus far!!!?? Either way, the man is a GENIUS!! I wish I had one tenth of his writing skill! The Thrill of the Chase will go down in history as one of the greatest puzzles of all time!! This is so much fun! and so darn frustrating at the same time! I feel like the kid that knows where the cookie jar is (in the kitchen) but cannot tell from his vantage point exactly where, or on which counter it sits! And I haven’t learned to speak fluent Fenn yet, so when he tells me which counter, I don’t quite understand…. yet….

  29. The searcher who was recently rescued by helicopter was up a creek near Hebgen Dam (if it’s the same incident I found on the Sheriff’s bulletin). I don’t think this info is about a structure being no part of the solution but a comment to keep people from taking that searcher’s lead. His spot is now public knowledge.

    That’s just my opinion of course.

    • To me the poem has to be solved 3 times I have 3 blazes 1for each solve but that’s my solve and its narrowed my search area down to 1 spot

      • What is bad is going out looking and not having the book it was being printed again, and not realizing what I saw I got until I got home. Now just not having the money to go back is really depressing. Believe me if you think you see something stay there to figure it out. It isn’t imppossible but one blaze is very difficult to figure out.

          • In that case, it is a pleasure meeting you. Where are you from? I would ask where is home for you, but that may get a little confusing. I would like to add more, but… I have more questions that I think you’d be willing to answer. If I could pursuade you of course. But first, from where do you hail?

          • Nice meeting you as well. Well at the time of my trip I was living in Texas but moved to Ohio.

          • How about someone who may have been out with you? Did they leave an item or two behind? Try to recall.

          • I’m sure you will find other places to enjoy. For a minute there, I thought I had found someone whom I nearly crossed paths with.

          • As far as I know we left no reminants behind. I did speak to one person on the way back to our car but other than that we pretty much kept to ourselves. Unless that was you I spoke to.

  30. Diggin gypsy could you please tell the group here that you were one of the searchers that Fenn is referring to in this post. Would you enlighten us on anything else that was discussed.

  31. I was always sure that forrests “Very Special” place did not “begin” at a Dam, A structure, man made! For one I do not believe in Damszzz! and someone like forrest is not real fond of them either. The Treasue is in a very beautiful place that is UNIQUE and SPECIAL to someone like Forrest!

    Lou Lee Belle, Chased byBrown Bears in Jellystone Park…..

  32. Allow me to chime in. Yes…..this blog subject is based around the last comments from Forrest regarding dams and it certainly allows for great discussion. However,
    dont lose sight over what “it” is. Just keep that in mind.

  33. @running on empty,

    Sorry , I didn’t see your question until this morning…

    Rather not divulge the state just yet, it is integral to the location I now have… 🙂


  34. Fellow Searchers ……I have never met any of you personally but do feel somewhat remotely attached. With our world in such a changing and uncertain state it’s especially nice to get back to basics and productively share a mutual interest……fun, right?

    Just a note to say I hope the person that discovers the chest chooses to include supporting the needy…….help them solve their puzzles and win the search.

    Good luck to all of you! …….. If you find it I’ll be looking for your autograph next?


    • Tom,
      I like your thoughts, but I was thinking about how great it would be for the finder to dedicate their time and talent to finding lost children. I would imagine if one person could locate a hidden treasure, then maybe they would be able to use that gift to help others. I like that idea don’t you?

  35. Tom…my main charity is the school on Pine Ridge Reservation. They need so much! Heat, a/c, computers, a snow plow and a bus, current education books ( not 30 yr old hand me downs like they are getting from govt). It is the poorest res in the US. I hope to help in all these needs and set up a scholarship also.
    My heart broke when I spoke with a family that had a set of twin girls, 9yr, that had a toe each amputated from walking to school! That wouldn’t happen in say, Chicago!
    Just my 2¢…¥Peace¥

  36. apparently we have a lot of very intelligent and gifted treasure searchers here

    they knew for a fact that WWH wasn’t related to a dam even though Forrest had never indicated such prior to this statement

    never mind that a dam made as much sense, probably more sense, then most theories that have been stated on the blogs

    but they knew for a fact, and it was so obvious apparently, they probably wish Forrest had never said this to level the playing between them and all of us who werent able to see what was so obviously a fact

    its a wonder the chest hasnt been found already

    • CY……..Maybe it was fouND! MUAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA! To all this was a joke. I repeat: this was a joke!

  37. Chris,
    Until recently, (last year or so), I had not crossed dams off my list of places wwwh.
    And I still believe that is a possibly viable solve….in another persons solve. I am kind of stuck in one place now…and until I can convince myself I’m crazy, I gotta stick to this spot. I’m still not 100% convinced that the poem takes you DIRECTLY to the chest…. currently I am convinced I still have to find the chest or a blaze when I arrive that will narrow down the area to be searched…otherwise its still a needle in a haystack, just in a smaller haystack. I mean, we are talking 10″ by 10″ by 5″ here. If I told you I hid a 10x10x5 box in an area the size of Salt Lake City, Utah (as an example only), it could still go undiscovered for decades or more…so I am hoping to be taken to a much smaller search area than is currently defined in my chase… and the chest may have already been found…who knows?

  38. MD,

    I agree with your commentary regarding the “precision” to which the poem takes you to the blaze and subsequently the chest…at least based on my current and previous searches. My current search idea takes me to an exact spot, but unless I can see a “blaze” of some sort from that spot, I will still be scavenging about the small area. Plus, I still have no idea as to what the blaze might be so I might as well be gazing at the stars. I am hoping the blaze is…just a blaze in the wood…plain and simple. Samsmith seems to have taken some sort of inside-out approach to the poem that provides him a seemingly “exact” solution. I had several searches that used multiple layers of the poem to eventually get to an exact spot and an exact blaze but to no avail.

    Perhaps Mr. Fenn could define “precisely” for us as it relates to the blaze rather than the chest….on an equal playing field of course. If Samsmith is correct, the answer would be zero since he apparently derived the blaze from the poem itself. It then must be an item/object/feature that you know for certain is there and can be easily found. It sounds promising anyway so good luck to Samsmith and also to you MD.

    • Best of luck and good hunting to you also Windsurfer…and to all searchers out there, even the lurkers…Good luck and Good hunting…May Dame Fortune smile on your efforts…

      Won’t declare my solve as being “exact” just yet myself. I have as yet to go look and find out if what I have is “the solve” Mr. Fenn intended, or if I”m just making a dang fool of myself…This is yet to be determined…Stay tuned for further developments…LOL…

      “IF” what I have is correct “AND” I get the opportunity to explain it openly, there will be many searchers who will groan audibly and lament over not seeing this sooner…

      There are so very many intelligent people involved in this chase that I cannot right now divulge the slightest part of the solve without a whole bunch of them immediately recognizing what it entails and how to find it themselves…

      If this solve is correct and another discovers this secret, then I’m sure I will be a day late and a dollar short when it comes to finding this chest…There are many needy people I can help if I’m correct, so I definitely wish to get there first of course…For me it would be a blessing…

      I have hinted in the blogs enough about what I discovered and am waiting for he opportunity to find out if I am right or wrong…The chest has sat there for at least four years so I don’t think another few months will make much difference…I have the impression from what I read on the blogs that time is on my side for now…Just can’t know about a lurker though…

      Again, Good luck, Good hunting , and may God bless…


      • When you heading out, Sam? I’ll be in north Yellowstone & north MT in midJuly !! (Gotta wait till summer break + my areas are still much too snowy right now anyway)

        • Mapsmith,

          Can’t set a date right now…Too much going on with family…Step-daughter graduation end of this month in WI…Generous gift to get her started off in college, etc…Probably later this summer…

          Definitely want the snow gone at the elevation I’m headed…I do love the Rockies, but not that much…LOL…

          I know I’ve commented I hoped for no crowds where I’m headed, but in reality it would be nice to run into a fellow Fenner or two on the trail to sit and swap lies with over a brewsky , a meal, or both…

          Will see what happens… 😉


          • @ritt…best I can give you is 8,000 – 10,200 ft…gonna be snow in there into July I reckon…


          • Sam…I think you maybe right on at 8,500 to 8,900 ft…….Hope you have snow shoes…lol….Good luck, Sam…..Adios!

    • Gazing at the stars is a good past time. You might find more than you expect by doing that.

  39. The blaze can be a trail if you think of it this way. You look quickly down the trail. Say within 500 feet of the trail head.

        • So were on the blazing trail then gotta find another blaze That don’t make since or I think he would of said blazes

          • D. gypsy: I suppose it’s all relative and hinges on what you consider clues. I think ‘worth the cold’ and ‘in the wood’ are clues, and I take to heart that FF said the “clues are in consecutive order”. Therefore, the blaze might be just ‘quickly up from the end (cease) of the quest’, but there are still clues after that IMO , and if I’m following the clues in order, the finder will need those last few clues to actually locate/get the chest.
            ex: the ‘quest’ (def.: a pursuit, an adventurous expedition, a search to obtain something…) may very well just be the traveling to the spot. The finding/uncovering/earning* of the chest could be what those last few clues are describing.

            *FWIW, in Chrétien’s Grail Quest, Perceval remains silent, tarrying with amazement (marvel gaze) at the procession of children at the wonderous home of the Fisher King: the bleeding lance, the candelabras, and the little girl with the grail. Perceval wakes and figures out he neglected to ask the right questions, missing his chance.

    • Stephanie,
      This was the approach I used in my Slide Trail solution (NM–Orilla Verde area) a couple months ago–picked this particular trail (spur of The Old Spanish Trail), then narrowed it (the blaze) down to the actual “rock slide” portion of the trail, then found that big boulder in the rock slide area that had the final “blaze” (owl-like “thing” etched into the boulder). Obviously, I did not find the treasure but I still like this idea for one type of my solutions. I know you are my competition for finding the treasure chest (if it is hidden in New Mexico)! The race is on! (By the way, we met and had eats at Zia Diner with a few other folks after Forrest’s book signing at Collected Works Bookstore last Fall. Maybe we can chat again this summer if you come to the Santa Fe area to visit Forrest.) Good luck and stay safe in your travels!

  40. I remember very well 😉 I don’t know if I’ll search again. Thinking of writing a book instead.

    Gypsy, no I don’t think another blaze. I think the trail head can be a blaze and within sight of it, it would be under a rock.

    • Stephanie throwing in the towel ?!?! What’s the world coming to? Say it isn’t so

  41. The emotional and financial might have caught up to me. I’ve never been obsessed with anything like this before. I used to be a nice normal person. Anyone else want to talk about the obsession part, feel free to email me(tyblossom at aol dot com). There might really need to be a 12 step program…As an atheist, mine might need to be 11. People would be shocked if they knew the depth to where this has brought me from who I was.

    • Stephanie ! A bright woman like yourself can find a good solution to the conundrum that has drawn you in. Your solution may not contain the whereabouts of the Treasure that forrest hid, but it may become the end of your own personal Rainbow. Best wishes to you and yours, and thanks for all you have done for this Chase…

    • Hi Stephanie,

      Stephan understands your pain. Try finding an aspen tree with a precisely carved FF exactly where you think it should be, and then imagine your obsession deepening. I made 20 trips back to my carved tree and rambled many, many miles in the woods. I foolishly started drinking way too much in my frustration (Now I am stone cold sober for 8 months, and will never drink again: thank you, Mr. Fenn!). Things only eased for me once I hit bottom, just like any addict, and realized that every day, all around me, were the people I cared for, and that they were much more important, and interesting, than any treasure chest!

  42. I know about obsession with the Chase, Stephanie. I’m one of those too. I just live closer so the financial hasn’t been quite the same.

  43. Ken, thank you so much for your kind words…they mean a lot. I know I’ve spent 70k+(I seriously don’t want to count anymore) on this over the past 3 years and it’s caused a great deal of issues in my family. I believe for some now and some in the future, the enticement of financial security is very similar to a gambling addiction that I never expected to have. I can walk into a casino with $100 and walk out without a penny of it and I’m fine. This for many reasons hasn’t been like that for me. I don’t know if I can let go unless I were to find it. Tomorrow I might be driving out West somewhere with some new idea. I still have a stash of them.

    • Many of us are obsessed with this chase in one way or another Stephanie, and good for you to recognize yours and make some positive changes. I have spent an inordinate amount of time looking at maps, doing research, and reading blogs and, while I have only made 1 trip, the time factor involved has been great. It would probably be in all of our best interests if the treasure were to be found this year so we can all get on with our lives! 🙂

      Best wishes to you and your family. I hope your husband is doing well.

  44. I know you’ve had your life on the line with at least one of your searches. You’ve been looking for such a long time too.

    • That pesky mountain lion somehow knew that the meat on these bones was tougher than the turkey she had just finished devouring… lady luck was lookin’ out for me that morning !! My search continues later this year. Projects w/ work have me busier than a one- armed paper hanger…

    • Stephanie,
      I need to “talk” to you privately. Could I please email you using your personal email? Thanks. cynthia

  45. Stephanie, and any one who has put time in on this prior to the national news interviews back in 2013, I can’t imagine how much investment that you have in the search. I have been at it for almost a year and a half. It has been exhausting at times and I had to step back to stay grounded, tried to give it up only to jump right back in. I ran across some notes that I took back in the beginning and decided that I have a compulsive disorder. It is ok to be crazy in a good way…lol My family has asked me to talk about something else…lol

    • Some things are better left unsaid,meanwhile, I will say this whole thing sure did stimulate the economy.

      • As have I. I been searching since 1/13 and have spent quite a bit of money and alienated friends and family. I also have a huge concern about the Chase right now. I’m going to email Dal and send him some pictures and see if I can get some clarification. I have already been out three times this year….. I am not going back out without confirmation that I am right or wrong. I got a bad feeling……. I’ll update as soon as I find out. Good luck all.

    • How funny yes my family has to listen to me as well. Some believe others do not but as long as I believe that’s all that counts right now . And about making notes lol I have put about 600.00 in a scrapbook that I have been working on for the last year I guess I did it so I wouldn’t forget it’s my resource when I venture out one last time . I feel like I ignore my family and friends I have been consumed with this:)

  46. Interesting isn’t it . . . that ff comes right out and says that WWWH doesn’t involve a dam. Again, national security pressure to keep all loonies away from water reservoirs and power producing units ?? (I know . . . ridiculous, right Ken.) But why would he come right out and tell us plainly that it has nothing to do with dams other than for safety of those “brave” few paddlers or for a gov’t related issue?
    Why doesn’t he come rightout and say WWWH doesn’t have anything to do with glaciers, or headwaters, or hot springs?? Just another shaving thought. (NO, wait. I’m on summer break now. No shaving but once a week.)

    • I don’t understand what’s happening here lately. Forrest posts an email from someone and some people question it’s origin. He’s done it before and there’s never been as much confusion about them. So is it now, that we are seeing a different class of searcher on the blog? If so, rest easy. We’ve been here before.

      Fenn has over time given us additional hints and clues, like “it’s not in an outhouse” or “it’s not associated with any structure”, etc. So why now do we question another generous clue, such as it’s not a dam? If we’re going to question his latest reveal, why not go back and question all the rest as well.

      Come on people, appreciate what he’s doing and stop questioning his motives. After all, this is “HIS” Chase and not “YOURS”. Enough said. Let’s return to reasonable chatting.

      • Right GG. He told us it wasn’t under an old outhouse for a reason: people were digging them up. I was simply wondering why he said no dams. Sorry if my posts don’t fit in with your definition of reasonable chatting. ( I haven’t seen it listed anywhere what exactly that definition is.) And where was it stated that I don’t appreciate what he’s doing? I guess I fit under the definition ” a different class of searcher” – whatever that is. More likely, perhaps I stepped on some toes of those who apparently think that this is “THEIR” blog. Until I hear form Dal or ff to kindly leave this blog, I will continue to posit thoughts here and there.
        There, was that reasonable?
        – Mac

        • BTW, it’s only a generous clue if your previous solves involved a dam. Mine never have, so it really was of little consequence to me. I have stated and will continue to state that I believe WWWH is a mountain snow field that feeds a stream. HOB is an actual place. That’s my take, regardless of how reasonable one might think. Remember, everything is conjecture until someone holds the chest in her/his hands.
          I’m going to bed now.

      • Fellow Germanguy — The “not associated with any structure” comment has me wondering about the ” pay attention to the meaning of words” comment. Commonly accepted meanings or ff’s meanings? I tend to use my intuition about the meaning of words. A dam is a structure, as is a bridge. Is a road a structure? How about a man made trail, or blaze? Does a structure have to be relatively permanent? If so, how do you define that?

        I am already sure that HOME of Brown does not refer to a HOUSE. That should be a given.

        But what is WARM water? Water that comes out of the sky can be warm or cold. So can water that comes out of the ground…. Is it what the fish prefer or warm to my touch?

        I have my solve worked out and it leads to a specific place. But do I know the TRUE meaning of the words ff is using? Prob not.

    • Mac…he stated he got into a conversation about the subject and it came out WWWH was not a dam. So, since that searcher got the clue, Mr. fenn, being the honorable man he is, gave the clue to EVERYONE! To level the playing field…so everyone is equal. No conspiracy theories, no Nat’ l security threats. Just because he is one of the most caring, honest, and REAL person you will ever know. That’s why! Just have fun with it and remember…don’t look a gift horse in the mouth!

    • Mac, I don’t know about “National Pressure” being put on f, but i would not be surprised if more than a few searchers have sent solutions to f involving dams. One searcher on Chasechat said he emailed f and told him he was going to the base of Hebgen Dam to dig and was wondering if that email prompted f to post that scrapbook. Makes me wonder too. I agree with you that f seems to have Dal post some scrapbooks in response to some events that take place that he wishes to prevent like digging in graveyards, under outhouses or structures etc. It may not be that “pressure” was put on him, but it does seem that he is trying to prevent people from doing things that would either harm personal property or the environment or are illegal. Some people do not have much common sense – as the saying goes: “you can’t fix stupid”. But he tries! 🙂

      • I wouldn’t call that guy stupid that wanted to dig around below that dam I also thought that fit the poem very we’ll esp with that big owl blaze on mnt side Big fly fisherman spot.

        • I guess we differ in our interpretations of the laws. The dam is owned and operated by PPL Montana and my understanding is that it would be illegal to dig on their property. Fishing is a different matter, although it is “catch and release” there. Dig at your own risk Diggin gypsy. 🙂

          At one time (and I do not have a link and do not remember exactly where) Forrest said a searcher wouldn’t need any tools to find the treasure. To me a shovel for digging is a tool so I’ll search with that idea in mind. 🙂

          • He said that to someone in a email I think Stephan not sure someone who was gonna dig under a marked tree. He doesn’t say that to everyone just to some ppl who are totally digging in wrong spot I don’t dig anymore myself I have a rod that I stick in the ground to see if any thing is at three foot 🙂 but if there was yea I might dig 🙂

        • I saw Godzilla this weekend. If a large owl would be in a scene with Godzilla, I wonder which one would be locked on to the others neck? Maybe they would team up and the owl would have Godzilla’s back. That would be cool to watch on the big screen!

      • Gee golly, CJ. You put it so much more nicely and well thought out than I do. (Do you like my new image?)
        Yes, you are probably spot on about ff saying these things because of peoples’ (unwise?) actions. I lean way more in that direction as well. I just like to stir the pot with my “dark side” and desperate attempt at hording the gold for myself. Moo Haaa haa haaa.

        Oooops. I let it slip. Sorry. I hope I didn’t upset the double consonant.

  47. I post with trepidation because I’m in awe of you who have been immersed in TTOTC. I hope to officially join you soon.

    In reading Forrest’s pronouncement, I can’t help wondering whether it rules out some springs as WWWH. Cynthia has been a big proponent on this blog of the possibility that a spring is WWWH, and there are obviously a number of searchers who share her view. She has articulated the plausible theory that the pools associated with some springs could be the actual spots WWWH. I believe it’s common for those pools to have been formed by small man-made dams of rocks, logs, etc. So aren’t those spots “related to” a dam and ruled out as WWWH by Forrest’s statement?

    Any thoughts?

  48. Paddler…IMO, in studying springs, I found several diff kinds. Some can be damed up and originating just out of the side of a hill or mountain and would indeed be a dam and or a structure. There are, however, springs that come up from the ground and go right up through the warm water of rivers. There are also hot springs that flow into a cooler river, forming a large pool of warm water, then abruptly stop, like Ojo Caliente in YS. Then there are hot springs that flow up from the bottom of a cold lake bed to shoot up to the top of the water, heating an area of a lake, like YS lake.
    A spring can be defined as a natural waterway originating from an underground auquafier. It can cold, warm or hot. It is always free flowing.
    The only way a spring can be man made is if it piped in water, or, lol, a pipe breaks and bubbles up.
    Any man made pool/spring made with any type of material could be considered a structure. Also cosidered as a dam.
    I feel there are NO man made finger prints on this poem, just 100% natural features, just like Mr. Fenn.
    Thanks for your time.

  49. Hot water, warm water
    Geyser halting basin

    Cliff walls, dam stalls
    Walls of ancient masons

    Molly Brown, not in town
    Artist with a hammer

    Treasures bold don’t get cold
    Or end up in the slammer!

    • Very nice.
      Did you see where Dal said he would make a poem page. Hope he does. Like your new name by the way. Album coming out soon? 🙂

      • Great idea. Poem was rushed. Should have said “Blacksmith” in place of “Artist”.

        Do I have to tell about the time my idling pickup locked the doors on me while I was outside checking on the snow depth in the switchbacks?

        • Only if I have to tell about the time I loaded two five gallon water cooler containers onto the passenger side of my ’88 F-150 and then slammed the door. Click. Darn electric lock switch. Who placed it that low on the door? Lot of people laughing in the parking lot as I rocked that truck furiously for five minutes as I attempted to unlock w/ key, and push door button to open, . . . . rock, rock, Rock, ROck, ROCk, ROCK . . . unlock, pus_ but___ CLICK.
          Repeat scene. multiple times. Only after I got in did I notice the back slider was unlocked. Hmmmm.
          OK, guess you have to tell your story how you got in, after all. Inquiring minds want to know !!

          • Great story, MacSweeney.

            My lockout happened last Nov. I was alone, 500+ miles from home. I spent the night in a really beautiful place of rugged wilderness and historical relevance that I couldn’t believe that I had all to myself. Spent the night with a herd of mule deer nosing in as close to me as they dared, to check me out.

            Next morning, I found it had snowed about 6 to 9 inches. Knew I had to get out of there, as beautiful as it was with all the new snow. Didn’t know for sure if I could make it up the switchbacks out of the canyon, but at least I had all day. Put the chains on and got out of the canyon. Snow was really coming down. I came to an intersection on the trail. I could avoid the switchbacks by turning here and going down 55 miles of trail I’d never seen before. But no, I chose to stay on the trail I knew and face the switchbacks.

            There were no tracks in the snow other than deer, rabbit and my own. Got to the switchbacks. They are pretty steep, so I got out to walk the first 2 bends to be sure I could get through. No problem there. Got back to my Ford Ranger, 2002 model, like new. The door locks activated. It sat there gently idling, me on the outside. No one around for at least 40 miles.

            Why of course I come prepared! Had a second key in my coat pocket….. which I had stashed behind the driver’s seat!!!

            I did a quick inventory of what I had in the back of the truck. Got right up in that bed so I could look down at those keys in the ignition… and there was my coat behind the seat. Also had a mountain bike with me. I could jump on that, ride all day in deep snow to the next town and tell everyone what an idiot I am!

            But no, I also had a floor jack. Used the handle to bash in the slider window. Reached for that spare key in the coat pocket. Bits of glass everywhere!

            Not too cold on the long ride home. Truck tried to lock me out 2 more times, but by then I had the spare key tied to my belt loop.

            Hey, THINK and Stay safe!

          • I felt like I was right there with you in your story 🙂 Yea we all need to play it more safer for sure .

          • Oh, my !!! Who comes up with these great ideas on vehicles anyway?! Glad you made it out OK. ( Impolitely laughing as I read your story. Sorry.) But aren’t life’s best stories just like that? Kinda like me taking my family on Lake Powell yesterday to go kayaking. Mmmmm.
            Straight into 20MPH winds. We’ll make it to the canyon, yes we will. Meanwhile all the locals on the beaches laughing at us for the idiots we were. BUT, we made it to the canyon, sheltered in for 10-15 minutes. Ate our Subways and then headed back to make it by closing. Ben-gay and shoulder massages for the rest of the day.

    • Idahohaldol, I am currently compiling all poems posted on this sight with author’s attached names and will create a totc story/poem book! Of course, it will have the finder’s story in it and a chapter on chase mishaps, which will be entertaining! It is a history book on the entire chase. I hope to get a narrative interview from Mr F for the preface! Great poetry! Love it!
      Maybe I can get Dal to do the photography in the book!
      Of course, proceeds go to Cancer research!

      • Donna,
        Meant to post the reply above here. Thanks for liking the little ditty. Don’t get me started…. Sent it right before my little lady and I left to get her chemo this morning, so I’m in your camp!
        Let me know what I can do. The little lady is sleeping off the effects of the chemo right now.
        Alan — I mean, IdahoHaldol.

        • IdahoHaldol, hope all turns out well for your little lady! Will def holler to all when we start the compilation.

      • Death creeps in on us,
        Like a black veil of night.
        But oh, what a surprise.


        • BW,

          We ain’t dying here. Just livin’ and fightin’ with all we’ve got!

          Ur all famly… My chase has evolved beyond the gold, if the story be told….

          • Best wishes for your lady Idaho. Many people treated for cancer live a long full life but the treatment isn’t easy. Good luck to you both.

          • IH, Just today saw your response.
            I must apologize, I thought I was on a different thread to post a poem (?) what ever it should be called. If you wife is ill, this was not directed to either of you. I wrote that little diddy years ago and just wanted to throw it out there. Please apologize to your wife for me. We all fight some type of battle. I wish her well and a speedy recovery.

          • @BW – – –

            You’re cool, I suspected it was an errant post ! Just felt like it fit my family situation. f is wise from living a long and varied life. My wife and I are playing those cards mentioned in the beginning of TTOTC. There is good and bad in everything.

      • Another haiku, this one for Forrest 🙂

        rainbow trout swimming
        fishing soothes the human soul
        waiting for summer

  50. To all,

    WWWH is not a dam. This is only the one clue.

    A dam could still be part of the solution. Do not rule it out.

  51. Well, I’ve been following these post, and others, for some time.

    I took four trips last year, one after another. Each one getting me closer to the answer. My last trip with my wife was the best and most informative.

    I have the answer and it came from being there, not from these post or looking at Google Earth.

    Forrest helped with a clue on Dal’s pages that I think most have missed, but that fits into the poem perfectly. I had the clue figured out already, but seeing Forrest posting a response confirmed it for me.

    My fifth trip is in the planning stage and I will video the episode as I fully expect to have a climatic end to the video with the chest in hand. I will say this, when I retrieve the chest I will leave behind a token (one coin) of the quest for those who follow and figure out the clues. I have, each and every one, and have found the Blaze where Forrest intended for me to find it, in sequence, like the rest of the poem.

    I didn’t realize the meaning of the Blaze location, or I should say, I doubted the location, but now realize it’s value.

    Forrest will receive his bracelet to confirm the find.

    It is a demon of a quest as it gained custody of my body and soul. Be careful of this as it can cause serious damage to relationships, bank accounts and the fun that it is suppose to be. Hopefully I can report on this trek early next month.

    • What state do you think it’s in rick ? I hope u or someone finds it soon just to end all our madness 🙂

      • I think Forrest would love to see it found prior to his passing. It would be more fun to share with him. I’ve done my research as I am sure you all have.

        Utah is beautiful, 12 hour drive for me to Moab. Where to from there?

        Funny story in my trips I always stayed in this one little motel in a small town. First trip was with my BIL, who rides Harley’s so he has some tats. Man behind the counter wanted to know if we wanted two rooms, nope, one is fine. He had a questionable look on his face.

        Second trip was by myself. Dropped off my BIL and immediately booked another rental car and went back the very next day.

        Third trip was with my brother, stayed in the same motel, one room, thank you.

        Last trip was with the wife and I actually think the guy behind the desk was relieved to see me with a woman. ;-).

        • I think your wrong rick I think he likes people to keep getting off there couches and searching that’s why he hid it !!! A cycle that he don’t want to end because it brings good memories to a lot of families 🙂 I’m
          Almost 100 percent positive. The thrill is the chase .

          • your right gypsy, the chase is the thrill..
            Along the way.. enjoy the little things that can’t be seen from sitting at the desktop.
            13 trips and counting…. and its still a thrill.. good luck to you gypsy

          • Wow 13 trips you must be already rich leave the treasure for us poor people who can barely afford 5 trips lol

        • OK Rick,
          Give it my best shot. Southeast of Moab, along RT46, Mt Peale, small motel on left side. Heading, east to Colorado 90.

    • Rick thanks for updating us, were all just waiting with baited breath for someone to find this thing. That snow just pushes it out another year. Hurry Rick!

    • Good luck Rick. I think Forrest wanted to share the thrill and adventure and inspire others to see what he sees. If I became possessed and had problems from this I would walk away. Stay safe and keep your powder dry !

  52. Something to think about.

    In the 4th line of stanza 1, what “hint” could mean.

    Definition – : clue, inkling, suggestion, indication, indicator, sign, signal, pointer, intimation, insinuation, innuendo, mention, whisper

    Fenn’s comment “Could someone be whispering”.

    What if we look further at ‘intimation’ for a moment. Supposing he is suggesting that the area in which the chest is located, at some point in time, had both ‘new and old’ riches. As an example, at one time it was an archeological site. Treasures to archeologists is artifacts (riches old), not necessarily gold or precious gems and such. And the new riches could be a local abandoned gold mine. Both are riches, but separate in their meaning of ‘riches’.

    • Not suggesting any definition you stated is wrong, Just a bit incomplete, Germanguy, So If I may add a few more…And i understand they may not be useful in or for your comment. But felt they may be of some help.

      A thought, a tip, a lead, to steer in a direction, an idea, a touch of [ that one threw me for a sec ] A touch of or hint of a smell or taste or small amount, a trace.

      I was surprised not to find scant amongst these type of definitions.

    • Throughout time different things have been considered riches.It all depends on how far back you go. At one time salt was considered a valuable item. I am sure the ancients probably considered the raw materials that they made their daily tools out of to be riches. So if they found an area plentiful in what they needed to be a “rich” area.
      Look for ancient trade routes..

      • Deb, just curious… How does one go about finding ancient trade routes. Seems like you’d have to get ahold of archeological journals to confirm. Or have specific knowledge of that area. Most ancient routes followed water trails, rivers. Occupation sites for ancient tools or resources like Obsidian mountain are protected.

        Others in the chase keep reminding me that researching history won’t help solve clues When all we need is found in the poem.

        • 42

          As others are saying (not you) to NOT research history is misleading and just plain wrong. History is indeed a huge part of this chase – and those who don’t get that – are lost to wander around in never never land. IMO

          • inthechaseto, agree. IMO history and Mr Fenn’s memories meld into his personal purpose for hiding the treasure. However I think he hopes we simply enjoy the adventure and find contentment to enjoy each day without the gold. Who knows, my humble opinion after reading his memoirs is that F’s waters run deep with complex and shifting currents. Back on topic, any ideas on what ‘staying in the middle’ means on the ground search? Trying to figure out if I need to stay exactly in the center of my x plotted on map, or in the middle of my designated search area which lines up logically with types of geology f enjoys.

          • 42 –

            See where “I serve the end” is placed in the poem

            All clues should be followed in order – then you will know. 🙂

        • 42,

          You are right, all you need is the poem. But what if you were to solve the poem and discover there was rich history behind the area you were at? Then you would probably understand a bit more why Fenn found this spot to be so ‘special’. So whether he says knowledge of history is important or not, IMO, knowing history would likely be a foot up in the search. Especially if you knew where you were researching.

          In reading the poem, it will give clues to an area, everyone understands that by know. If the history of the area bears out from what you uncover in the poem, I would say research it a bit more.

          • Germanguy, thanks for encouraging further historical research – if nothing else I love it, and found solid documented na material linked to my search area..bummer is the main site sits under a local gas station I’ve been in a hundred times. May have to pray for guidance longer than I thought, or pick up slim jim’s and donuts! Lol. Hope my narrow focus areas up road are right.

          • Thanks 42. As I’ve said many times, history is what drew Fenn to the location. If you’ve ever read Douglas Preston’s book, Thunderhead (commented on by Forrest) you would see that he was throwing us a hint at the time. Funny thing though, is very few or any on here has read it.

  53. GG, my first time thru the poem and each time hence I’ve believed hint referred to first to ancient artifacts. 9000 yr old folsom points from the “Cut-tuh-o’gwa” Shoshone’s ancestors were found in my search area. I’ve wondered if Forrest had worked with local archeologists documenting those discoveries. The area is a natural summer hunting grounds and cultural crossroads. It interests me.

      • Germanguy, what I really need to get me going is a good nights rest…something’s money can’t buy 😉

        • Isn’t the bronze box itself both new and old?
          Also if interested lots of Shoshone and surrounding areas with info can be found on the lewis and Clark interactive maps. There are several very informative ones just google it 🙂

  54. “We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and knows” -robert frost

      • @ Gold fever, I thought fishing was the game of choice on Dal’s blog. I finally learned what a dry fly and lure are, and the difference between trout and bass. Now you introduce a wild goose chase…oh, brother! I think that game is usually played in the snow.

    • Jamie, nice to comtemplate something other than clues. What do you think Frost infers? Perhaps, the secret lies inside the individual to find inner peace by seeking truth; or we all keep secrets hidden and dance around them? I’m not quite sure how to interpret it.

      • I assume he means that the truth lies in the middle of speculation… Kinda like you need to hear everyone’s different version of a story if you want to know what really happened….

  55. @specialklr – funny you say that, duckduckgoose was also one of our coworkers that used to help with the chase until he got fired and “ducked” out on the team! Haha

  56. @specialklr – I remember duck duck goose well and played it at the local grade school. The neighborhood kids preferred Cops and Robbers at night!

  57. 299 responses back in 2014, and not one of you mentioned the oddity in Fenn’s first sentence of this SB. Forrest used the word “flues” rather than sluice gates or bypass tubes. Chimneys and organs have flues, and the word is mostly used in connection with the venting of gases, smoke, air, etc. — not liquids.

    Interestingly, a flue is also a type of fishing net.

    • Was it deliberate? I can see how it could be an innocuous misuse of the word, but “Flue” was a commonly used term in the days Forrest grew up. Very interesting. Have you found anything on this one Zap?

    • Zaphod,
      So what do you call those duct, tube, shaft, vent, pipe, passage, channel, built into a dam that allow the waters to be set free?

      • Seeker: Bypass tubes or pipes. Just not flues. Flues generally point upward, and as I wrote above it is an odd word to use for water conveyance. Perhaps as in the case of “For Whom the Bell Tolls” he needed a word starting with F to complete the BTFTW sequence: “…[w]ater [b]eing released [t]hrough [f]lues near [t]he …” Could be nothing, or could be another one of his very subtle hints.

        • Zap The reason I asked was, I took a look at ‘images’ of dam flues… many designs show the word flue.

          “a word starting with F to complete the BTFTW sequence: “…[w]ater [b]eing released [t]hrough [f]lues near [t]he …”

          That’s a leap for me, but one day I hope to read your solve… honestly.

        • Seeker: JDA is correct — the conduits are also sometimes called flumes. But I’ve never seen them called flues. Check your spelling; you probably searched on flumes and not flues when you found those images.

          I believe this is one of Forrest’s systems for relaying a hint: make a deliberate but subtle mistake (whether word choice, or spelling, or punctuation) to draw attention to a word, phrase or sentence, and then conceal a hint there or nearby. I’ve seen potential hints like this that work with my solution not only in TTOTC, but multiple Scrapbooks and Weekly Words. I’m confident there are some in TFTW as well, though I don’t yet have the book to confirm this.

        • Zaphod73491 –

          ” Perhaps as in the case of “For Whom the Bell Tolls” he needed a word starting with F to complete the BTFTW sequence: “…[w]ater [b]eing released [t]hrough [f]lues near [t]he …” Could be nothing, or could be another one of his very subtle hints.”

          Nice catch! I had read this SB multiple times and didn’t see anything. I would agree that it’s likely a very subtle hint.

          ” I’ve seen potential hints like this that work with my solution not only in TTOTC, but multiple Scrapbooks and Weekly Words. I’m confident there are some in TFTW as well, though I don’t yet have the book to confirm this.”

          Replying to a later post about other hints. I have found what I think are hints in f’s other writings as well including TFTW. It’s amazing what one can see if they study f’s writings for long enough.

    • I would have to agree on flume. The really old ones that were used to transport timber are especially fascinating.
      One meaning of sprue sounds quite interesting but the other meaning not so much!

    • DG, I agree that sometimes when Forrest misspells it’s simply inadvertent. Other times it’s clearly deliberate. For a given instance, it’s not always possible to tell one way or the other. But even if only a few of his errors *are* hints, I think it’s risky to discount any of them.

        • The dictionary says “flue” is a system to redirect smoke. Example: Through room filled with smoke because the chimney FLUE was closed.” Flues are used for gas, smoke etc. Ducts are another name used. Often pronounced “duck” with the ‘t” silent.
          FLUMES are used for transporting objects with the use of water, or to redirect water.

          • Yep i think he left the M out Accidently or on purpose Dal should know because dal always proof reads what he post

          • A roll of Duck tape should be in every survival bag………You never know when you’ll need to tape a duck because he flew over a flue. 🙂

          • Flues is just another one of forrests fenestrations . If he doesn’t place doors and windows . How else would we see , gain access or leave ?

  58. I remember this post very well, and the thoughts it triggered then. Always good to ‘re read things. It’s so funny how one evolves with their own thoughts on the Chase. But here, my thoughts are reading comprehension. 🙂

  59. I know this comment is a few years late but my solve for WWWH is not a dam, however my solve for Home of Brown has lead me to a place that just so happens to have a dam. Do you think a place with a dam should be discounted completely?

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