Jenny Kile’s Questions….Part One


Jenny Kile is a self proclaimed puzzle enthusiast and has a wonderful blog called Mysterious Writings where folks write about the mysteries of the universe and Jenny poses questions to people with answers. Some of her blog is devoted to various puzzles and quests and treasure hunts. One section is devoted to The Thrill of the Chase and a subsection is called Questions With Fenn. Here, Forrest answers questions posed by her readers. Wonderful questions…sometimes mystifying answers.

Her blog is here: Questions With Fenn

This is a place we can discuss his “mysterious” answers.

 This page is now full and closed to new comments. To continue the conversation please go to the latest Jenny Kile’s Questions page.

687 thoughts on “Jenny Kile’s Questions….Part One

  1. I posted this on the other page but now that we have a special page I’ll repost here.

    Just a few random thoughts on some things he has said.

    ♦People deserve an answer……..He has apparently changed his mind on this line of thinking.

    I reserve the right to be wrong once in a while. I wonder if his Coriolis Effect statement would fit in this category.

    The more detailed maps are most useful if you have the right map……Time to get out the topos.

    There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure. We know he drove to the location and made two trips the same afternoon. So was he “off roading” with his vehicle, or does not “very close proximaty” mean as far as an eighty year old man could make two trips from………How precise are his words? Does “human trail” mean a trail only used by humans walking or do roads also fit the definition; built by humans, but made for vehicles?

    ♦The chest is in a special place. How large is his special place? Does that mean in very close proximity to the chest; or as large as a state. For example some people say Wyoming is a very special place, some say the Rocky Mountains is a very special place.

    The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did. So do some of the clues refer to recent things…..created in the last eighty years?

    The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta. Is the first clue WWWH?

    • “♦I reserve the right to be wrong once in a while. I wonder if his Coriolis Effect statement would fit in this category.” GOG

      Do you really think his Coriolis Force statements were accidental slip of tongue?

      • That’s why I couldn’t let it go for a long time. His statement was so wrong it had to be a hint. I thought well maybe it was a joke that fell flat. But re-watching the interview he didn’t seem to be joking. I obviously haven’t forgotten about it, but I can’t make it fit in with a solution.

        In the beginning of the chase he said a way to tell if someone had spent any time in the wilderness was if they could tell you which way ants circled when climbing a tree. He said this on several occasions. This is the only time he explained how ants circled a tree and why.

        I’ve spent countless nights camping and wandering the wilderness and I’ve never heard or seen that ants went up a tree in any particular direction. So when I first heard him say that about the ants I did some research and even consulted an entomologist. I couldn’t find anything that would confirm his statement.

        I sent him an email about the ants and the Coriolis Effect statement being incorrect but he didn’t respond. He hasn’t used that analogy again that I’m aware of. So what does ants circling a tree and the Coriolis Effect have to do with finding the treasure……I have no idea; but I’m sure some imaginative genius out there will probably base their whole solution on ants and the Coriolis Effect.

        There are a couple other interesting things in that video. He said he had an elaborate plan about dying but wasn’t ready to talk about it.

        Loran Mills describes the time he was shot down and stumbled over the grave marker. He didn’t correct her. So someone that only watches that video could conclude he discovered the grave marker after one of the times he was shot down…..Which we all know isn’t true. I figured he was just being polite not correcting her.

        4:02 Elaborate plan about dying not ready to talk about.
        15:50 Shot down stumble over grave marker
        26:20 Coriolis Force ants circling climbing a tree.

        • GOG,
          I recall you being upset about that, I remember scratching my head for a while as well. Then he made another statement about driving cars in England because of the pull to the left easier (paraphrase). Then I figured he was up to something interesting. Then he gave another very subtle but very revealing hint referencing the C.Force that I believe shapes what he is getting at. It ties into the word “ever.” Just wonder if anyone has made this connection?

        • I believe his mistaken East West CE and ants circling are part of one of his experiments like the ones in TTOTC. I think if you’re in the right area they start lining up. Word of the day ‘Experiments’. You guys are on to something.

        • Goofy and the Wolf – Here’s the important text:

          Dr Iain Couzin, an evolutionary biologist at Princeton University who has studied army ant mills, said they were often triggered after rainstorms in the wild.

          He said: ‘Army ants are not only good at following trails but also have a propensity to form circular mills when moderate numbers are separated from a colony and restricted to a confined area, either in the laboratory or naturally in the field during exceptionally severe rainstorms.

          ‘After a period of disorder, the ants all begin moving in the same direction. This behaviour is likely to reflect the ability of army ant colonies collectively to select a raid direction.’

          • E,

            It is important we know about the ants or even why ants move for this reason?

            Could the answer be a bit simpler, maybe. Fenn used the analogy to ~ scant as a few… and followed that with, why do I feel like I’m talking in circles.

            What I think we have is, helix or a spiral action or description. A corkscrew for example.

            Is it important to know, that to an ant a mud puddle looks like an ocean… or… is this simply a perception we need to consider.

            There are a few examples in the poem that seem to imply this… “NFBTFTW” is one. How do we calculate what is not far yet still too far? { without forcing a word such as far to mean 4…etc.}

            “From there the end is ever drawing nigh” Where can we find a distances for this, [how far is the end to from there?] IF a distances is needed?
            Do we truly understand what “gone alone ‘in there'” is? Is it a large area… a small area… an area at all?
            How are we to understand if we don’t seemingly understand the perspective that fenn sees?

          • Seeker – Excellent post! Thank you. I was simply trying to see if ff was describing a REAL natural ant phenomena or not,…because Goofy wrote this above:

            “I’ve spent countless nights camping and wandering the wilderness and I’ve never heard or seen that ants went up a tree in any particular direction. So when I first heard him say that about the ants I did some research and even consulted an entomologist. I couldn’t find anything that would confirm his statement.”

            I think the Dr. Ian Couzin info. confirmed it. I think an army ant mill could go up a tree, ie. as ff was watching them, while sitting next to a creek swollen with Spring runoff. That would cause said “period of disorder” from that post,…and cause the ants to “select a raid direction”,…spiraling upward onto the tree.

            But I also think there are lots of aberrations on The Chase,…and I always appreciate discussing them. 🙂

          • E I didn’t respond because I viewed your comment as just another one of your spastic tangents that had little to do with my comment or what Fenn said in the video or what Wolf and I were discussing.

            In context of the discussion your comment looks more like a bad attempt at distracting from the actual discussion not adding additional information or giving an opinion……Just my opinion.

          • Goofy – I appreciate your opinion.

            Does anyone else have one on my post about the ants,…which was an attempt to provide scientific evidence to support why ff may have thought ants spiral up a tree???

          • E if you would have listened to the video Fenn tells us why he thinks ants spiral up a tree in a specific direction. Because of the Coriolis Effect.

          • Goofy – Yes,…I remember that video,…but right now I can’t cue the spot you mentioned (@26:20) because the video will not allow it. I was confused that you thought the ants didn’t go up a tree in any spiraling direction at all (because you had never seen it) when you wrote:

            “I’ve spent countless nights camping and wandering the wilderness and I’ve never heard or seen that ants went up a tree in any particular direction. So when I first heard him say that about the ants I did some research and even consulted an entomologist. I couldn’t find anything that would confirm his statement.”

            I knew that ff said they went in one direction or another because of the Coriolis Effect.

            And my intention was to solve this dilemma for you. I was actually excited to do that. Please forgive me for interrupting your discussion from May 2015 with The Wolf. 🙂

          • E you should watch the video again. I thought he said several interesting things.

            The dilemma I had is why he would say things that are obviously wrong. Back in the beginning he said on a few occasions the way to tell if someone had spent any time in the wilderness is to ask them which way ants went up a tree. Like they always go up a tree in a certain direction and anyone that spent time in the wilderness would know which direction.

            Like I said, I’ve spent a good portion of my life in the wilderness and had never noticed ants going up a tree in any particular direction.

            This video is the first and only time I heard him give the answer to why ants went up a tree in a certain direction. He was blatantly wrong so I thought it had to be a clue. I couldn’t make it work but I’m sure someone here could come up with a complete solution based on that tangent.

          • Goofy – And on a lighter note,…here’s what I thought of (because of the way my mind works and makes connections),…when you wrote:


            “E I didn’t respond because I viewed your comment as just another one of your spastic tangents that had little to do with my comment …”

            “It doesn’t help to stretch a tangent. f”

            The elastic spastic tangent-maker,…that would be me. 🙂

          • “…Knowledge of geography ‘might’ help.”

            Geography; the study of the physical features of the earth and its atmosphere, and of human activity as it affects and is affected by these, including the distribution of populations and resources, land use, and industries.

            The Coriolis effect is about the spinning of the Earth… plain and simple. What I find interesting… and anyone who as shot long range, or simply looked at the moon with a fix telescope… is “Distance” is not always straightforwards. Especially when one object is not fixed.

            The effect also changes wind flow/direction [ study of “and it atmosphere”? ]
            There are many things that are effected by the Coriolis effect… I wonder if this is part of the “planning” fenn alludes to? But I’m with Goofy on this one… I can’t twist things enough to make it work. But that could be why we are told; he was looking at the big picture.

          • Goofy – Will do. I just have to have 26:20 minutes to do so,…since I can’t cue it to that place. Thanks for the clarification. 🙂

          • Seeker – You wrote above:

            “Could the answer be a bit simpler, maybe. Fenn used the analogy to ~ scant as a few… and followed that with, why do I feel like I’m talking in circles.

            What I think we have is, helix or a spiral action or description. A corkscrew for example.

            Is it important to know, that to an ant a mud puddle looks like an ocean… or… is this simply a perception we need to consider.”


            On further consideration of your “a perception we need to consider”:

            I imagined ff flying his Piper plane,…preparing to land at West Yellowstone airport. Don’t people look like ants milling from the air (maybe sc’ant?),…and a “few miles” is like nuthin’ when ff is alone in th’air:


            And then I imagined him encountering traffic and being directed to circle the runway (“I’m talking in circles”?),…which made me think of wind direction and the Coriolis Effect:

            (See: Procedures in the pattern: “orbit”)

            And then I envisioned him flying over my spot,…which coincidentally has an E right over it on the VFR map (the last E in MADISON RANGE)!

            And then I thought of the Golden Triangle for Fibonacci numbers F,…and that spiral…(see the link in the next post).


      • Goofy and The Wolf – Goofy wrote:

        “♦I reserve the right to be wrong once in a while. I wonder if his Coriolis Effect statement would fit in this category.” GOG

        And then I read this ff quote again from his SB155 in May 2016:

        “I was very careful not to say I needed to be correct only 85% of the time. Read it again, middle of page 14. It doesn’t help to stretch a tangent. f”

        I think ff is saying that the errors he has made speaking during interviews,…including explaining concepts like C.E., or saying “buried” vs. “hidden”, or “pinon nuts”,….or items he was NOT correct about in his books,…that NONE of that will “help to stretch a tangent”. By that,…I think me means:

        Don’t go off on a tangent to solve The Poem. Don’t look for aberrations and create solutions based on these errors. Just stay within the main circle of The Poem and the Nine Clues.

        When I go off on a “spastic tangent” now,…I will imagine Goofy, other searchers, and maybe ff himself (if he ever reads here at Dal’s) saying:

        “That’s a bit of a STRETCH, now,…isn’t it, E*???

        But I am always starting with a point on The Poem circle and expanding the “spastic tangent” line in both directions (sometimes ad infinitum!):

        “A tangent line to a circle is a line that touches the circle at exactly one point, never entering the circle’s interior.”

        My intention is to expand on that Poem-related point on the circle,…so that someone NORMAL figures how to DRIVE RIGHT DOWN THE CENTER of that circle,…and solve The Poem and the Nine Clues:

        “The normal to a circle is a straight line drawn at 90∘ to the tangent at the point where the tangent touches the circle. The normal always passes through the centre of the circle.”

        But I will still go listen to that video interview now, Goofy,…to see if I remember those potential aberrations correctly. I’ll be back in about 1/2 hour…

        • in response to forrest’s knowledge of ants… “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”

      • Goofy and The Wolf – You CAN cue the video,…by moving the dot cursor after the video starts to run. 🙂

        GOG – I agree with all your assessments in your post near the top of this thread:

        (4:02) The “elaborate plan” for ff’s death…”not ready to talk about it”. I think if ff talked about it,…it would give the solution to the Poem! He said “I’m grateful I got well.”

        (15:50) I think ff WAS being polite not to correct the interviewer about ff being “shot down in the valley with the waterfall”. He wasn’t.

        (26:20) C.E. is why people in London drive on the Left side and those in NY drive on the right side? NOT! Although I found multiple comments to that effect,…when I looked on blogs about that very topic of who drives on which side of the road and why (on one engineering site it was CLEARLY posted as a joke):

        “It is to do with the Coriolis effect, in countrys that drive on the right side of the road, water goes down the plughole anti-clockwise, where they drive on the left it goes down clockwise. Simple as that.”

        FYI – Here is the REAL reason for the left/right side driving thing:

        • Goofy and The Wolf – p.s.:

          (6:24) A reminder that ff explains the hidden vs. buried topic to the interviewer in this video.

          It’s being discussed on Dal’s blog after this past Sunday’s interview,…because apparently he used that “buried” term again.

          • Regarding whether the treasure is
            buried or merely just hidden without
            being buried, “At this point, what does it matter?”

            If one solves all the clues correctly, thereby going “right to the treasure”,
            it should be hard to miss. It was
            suggested (by FF, I think) to bring
            gloves. Somebody believes that this
            is to lift a (flat?) stone that covers
            the TC. I will be looking for anything
            that looks like a bare TC just sitting by itself on the bare ground. But also
            for a TC surrounded/covered by one
            or more rocks. I will be looking, also, for a TC that is just partly buried, say in a pre-dug hole about 2 or 3 inches deep.
            I will also look for anything of a size that would accommodate hiding the TC
            inside (a hollow stone? A fake stone?).

            Since FF has told us that a child could
            go right to it, and that it’s not in a
            dangerous location (I take that to mean, for example, halfway up a steep, tall cliff), I think that the idea is that a family (including children) would not be in any significant danger by just traveling on foot to the TC.

            Fortunately, my solve suggests to me a very small specific “final search” area.

            The above is just my opinion. Yours may
            differ. Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe, in order to not be
            spending the night where you would
            not want to. And please respect all
            those things that nature can throw
            at you, such as snakes, larger
            carnivores or omnivores, insects,
            flowing or cold water, gravity, and
            extremely hot or cold temperatures. Best to be prepared (while also being
            wise), right?

      • bas·ket
        a container used to hold or carry things, typically made from interwoven strips of cane or wire.

      • I personally love his comments about “Canasta”.
        I have never played it with him but I am sure he is tired of it.

        I can’t wait to get back out there. I am almost healed up.

  2. This was one question I never felt was answered completely, especially after watching the Aussie video.

    “Question posted 6/24/2014:

    Did you really say the blaze is a white streak, as has been rumored? Thank you. ~Deb

    Thanks Deb,
    No, I did not say that……….”

    Dal, you were there when the question was asked and it seems that the Aussie editing was such that perhaps some of Forrest’s answer was not in there. Could you rack your brain a bit more and try to remember all that Forrest said about the blaze? In the video you seemed to say he said a blaze was like a white streak on a horse’s face or some kind of white streak. Is that all he said? Did he seem to be emphasizing that it was white?

  3. well now we know its not in a national park

    i think the info that its not related to a structure and not in close proximity to a human trail can also be reasonably concluded to mean it is at least somewhat remote but still within reasonable hiking distance

    i think one of the reasons f is giving out info like this more regularly now is because it gives the appearance of increasing clues, but really it just describes general ideas of where the chest is hid and can’t be used to locate any precise location of the chest

    it could be used to rule out false locations. that could save you time and money but doesnt really assist in actually finding it. if you understood where the poem tells you the treasure is, then all this info is not helpful to you, because you know all this anyways. so how are these hints really helping anyone. (to find it, which is really what matters )

    if you are trying to use them to locate the treasure rather than solving the poem then they really could be more of a distraction.

    • I think you’re right on about using the answers being a distraction..

      The recent question that gave the “proximity” answer was about leaving no trace, and so I think very close proximity means about 20 feet from the trail. The poem could still take a person along a trail until the hiding spot, which only needs to be 20 feet off the trail to satisfy his answer, IMO.

      Still, I need to re-think my own spot now…

    • Chris-
      you said “well now we know its not in a national park”

      I disagree. We still don’t know anything about where it is except what he has specifically told us.
      The idea that it’s not in a National Park is your interpretation of what he said….not fact. I do not come to the same conclusion at all.

      There is a recent line in one of the Aussie videos where Forrest says he is not going to tell the Parks folks it’s not in a National Park and he won’t tell the Indians that it’s not on Indian land…and on and on..
      I don’t think he has eliminated any chunk of land..

      • you’re right Dal

        i would say go where the poem leads you and dont rule any place out

      • Dal,

        Forrest said “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue.”

        I have always given careful consideration to the first stanza as being the first clue. I tend to follow the 9 sentences equals 9 clues.

        Based on that thinking, I accept the fact that the we start there. Careful study of the lines in the first sentence tells “me” that he did not stash it in other then a remote location. I just makes so much sense, not to hide it somewhere that the odds of it being found are too great. Especially given his original intent to have it survive for a very long time.

        • Add to that the fact he says “And with my treasures bold”.

          Where can one go alone and “Boldly” and not worry about looking over their shoulder for possible observers? Isn’t that the definition of “remote”? But, again, this is just my opinion.

          • German,

            What do you think about this Q&A, with respect to nine sentences, nine clues?

            Forrest, Did you intend for there to be 9 clues, or did it work out to be just right with 9? ~ halo

            “Nice thinking halo, I didn’t count the clues until the poem had been finalized. Although I changed it a few times over the months I think the number stayed about the same.f”

          • Clinger,
            The 9 sentences, equates to me that each is a clue. Add to that the fact that there are numerous hints as well, and you can see why people are confused by which are which.

            The best way to look at it, is even though you find hints in each sentence, consider the total of the sentence as 1 clue, period.

            Clues and hints, by definition are pretty much the same. However, in a sentence, a number of hints can uncover a clue. Hope I was clear on that.

          • I can think of a lot of places not even close to being remote, that a 79 or 80 yr. old w/back pack could boldly go and no one would even give a second glance. I bounce back and forth w/ that one, depending on which solve has my attention for the moment ! That is just one part that bends the brain…

          • I’m sure you’re right Ken. But this isn’t any average 79 – 80 yr. old were taking about here. Fenn’s been places that he has never even told his wife about, I sure.

          • Germanguy, some tend to think “bold” means right in front of everyone. There would be no need to be bold carrying the chest if no one was around to see him.

            When the chest is found he will be asked, “How in the world did you get the chest in there”? He’ll say he just walked in right in front of God and everyone else, and no one paid any attention to him.

            I don’t agree with this opinion, but some have read it to mean he went someplace he shouldn’t have with the chest.

            Just another way of looking at it.

          • One definition of Bold is… not afraid of danger or difficult situations.

            Depending on when Mr F hid the chest and also where, it is very possible that he already knew no one was around so therefore he carried the chest Boldly to the hiding spot.

          • German,

            Yes, you were clear….as possible when we are all just guessing. 🙂

            ..moving on to “bold” definition comments…

            I’ve always assumed the TC was in a remote location so there probably wasn’t anyone around anyway, but the empty chest would easily fit in a small backback and F could easily walk to his spot without drawing any attention. Same goes for a backpack full of gold on the 2nd trip.

      • Let’s not put much credit into Dal’s “interpretations” of what Forrest is trying to say.

        Dal is zero for like 50, so he’s obviously not very good at interoperating Forrest.

        I for one say this…..Forrest’s latest statements are suggesting that the chest is NO WHERE NEAR where the average adventure/hiker would go. It is located in a very, very low traffic area so it is unlikely that it is in a National Park (though some of the clues may start in a park)

        • djjmciv; I don’t see the need to discredit anyone’s viewpoint because they haven’t found the chest. Anyone’s idea is as good as the next; it’s fine to make your point why you agree or disagree; but per your definition everyone’s ideas deserve no credit, including yours, because they haven’t found it.

          I find Dal’s ideas interesting because of his experience in the field searching and his relationship with Fenn. I’m not sure if knowing Fenn personally is helpful or a detriment.

        • Bingo! Nowhere near a national park. Think remote. Too many people underestimating Forrests ability. No wonder he laughed out loud.

          • Ed,

            I’ve said over and over on this blog that the chest is in a remote area and yet I get comments that it’s not remote. It seems that people are looking for the chest in areas that are less technical.

            If you read Douglas Preston’s book Thunderhead (which was one of the people Fenn talked about), you’ll see it is a story of an archeologist and her search for a hidden Anasazi city somewhere very remote. I feel that Forrest uses this theme in creating his own adventure. My opinion of course.

            Preston even acknowledges “Forrest Fenn, who found his own lost city”. Supposing the “lost city” has been a special place that only Forrest knows about. Wouldn’t that be a blast? To “go alone in there”?

            I know that Forrest has said that all you need is the TTOTC and the poem to solve the clues, but I feel knowing more of Forrest’s interests makes for a stronger search.

          • LOL

            Ed tell me if the following area sounds remote…

            The area is characterized by spectacular geysers, lakes, and waterfalls. Most access is by hiking trail rather than by automobile, and in its remote reaches this area is lightly visited. Bison, elk, bears, moose, deer, and numerous species of birds may be your only companions.


            This area is in YNP off of the beaten path and the only people that go there…are the ones that “want” to be there.
            Hike in…Hike out.

        • Some National Parks are pretty big. I would not
          exclude them for the reason(s) you mentioned.
          Even in a smallish National Park, if the TC is
          hidden just a hundred yards or so from a human
          trail, if there is no big scenic attraction or view near the TC, the average hiker would have no reason to leave the trail in search of the TC, except where interpretation of the poem directs.

      • It is a national park, that speaks of riches new and old. It’s the interpretation in the writer’s view of what riches new and old mean, and those who appreciate the riches of the land and its timeless beauty.

    • IMO…what F said about most of the clues existed as a kid but not the places tells me that important land marks, like say Garden of the Gods, existed but wasn’t a park until say 1945. (Not factual, just example). They were always there, just not popular like now. I mean popular by being recognized as a park, monument, forrest etc. Thanks

    • Bold if you are so remote and you know it, that makes sense. Hide it and the chances someone finds it is because the blaze brought them 12′ from it.

      Bold if you are where ppl are and it is concealed. but where do you put it where ppl always are? And how do you put it where it wont be accidentally found being 12 feet from it?

      Well if you find the blaze you will know how and where to find the chest… look harder cuz im going soon… hope a pirate doesn’t rob me 🙂

        • That sounds weird – the people are really there but not near the treasure. Argh – to hard to explain without showing my solve.

        • so if people are not really there, are you saying graveyard? or are you saying people who work a mindless job?

          my solve, people could be there, but then again they may not.. but either way, walking in there with 3 mil in gold, you may as well be bold.

      • One could hide the TC during a closure (say, maybe during a holiday-like time?) of the facility or area. Or during the winter, when there are very few people in the
        area. Even if it is a popular place. And in a forest
        (i.e., “in the wood”), it shouldn’t be too hard to just
        disappear into the trees while carrying a backpack
        with treasure in it. After walking in, one could just
        wait a few minutes until nobody else is around . . .
        especially if you can look down a long, exposed
        trail and know that nobody is within 15 minutes of
        arriving near you.

        The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

        Good luck to all searchers. Please stay safe.

  4. Forrest’s new clue is confirming that it is in Faerie’s Fall. He mentioned Yellowstone by name. Unless he’s screwing with us, which is possible, it sure seems odd he keeps bringing that place up by name. Yellowstone is no more dangerous a place than any other in the mountains. Pretty odd to single it out in an example like that… Also, what he describes about it not being near a human trail matches Faerie’s Fall. It’s all back country hiking to get there, though only a couple of miles from the road. He is confirming my solution that I’ve emailed to him. I sure hope someone reading this will GO and GET IT! so I can quit bugging everybody. lol

    • Bill, spent three days in Fairy Falls and Sentinel Marsh, Ojo Caliente and Nez Perce/Firehole area June 1st. Hiked over 30 miles! On and off trail. Thanks

  5. IMO Forrest sometimes gives a clue in order to try and keep people out of trouble. Consider the clues from the Today show: “Not associated with a structure” to my mind means “Stop tearing up historic buildings.” Same with “Not in a graveyard.” IMO that means, “Don’t go desecrating graves and get yourself arrested.” If you read the answer that mentions Yellowstone carefully, he says,”There are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one.” Then he says, in the same answer, “There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure.” Given all the brouhaha about Yellowstone recently, I think that’s his way of taking it off the list of possible places.

    • I tend to agree with you MLM, others will say that’s not what he meant, but we all interpret things differently. If you were to ask f if he’s saying it’s not in YNP, he’d probably say, “That’s too big a clue and I don’t want to say that.” LOL! He makes statements and answers questions in such a way as to lend confusion to just what exactly is the meaning of what he is saying, and we do get confused easily! 🙂

    • If you have been to Yellowstone and paid any attention to the signs, I think you should have a pretty good understanding of what he is referring to with that statement.

  6. “He felt like he was an architect writing the poem and each word is deliberate.”

    He doesn’t say “some words are deliberate”, but “each word is deliberate”.

  7. Tony Doukopil said: “He told me the chest is exposed to rain and snow, and could be scorched in a forest fire.”
    Anyone know if this is a true statement?

  8. I find it interesting that Forrest continues to add fuel to the fire. Most of his answers are vague and so general that one could interpret them in any way that suits you. I continue to believe that there is a treasure chest hidden by Forrest somewhere north of Santa Fe and that the poem is what will get someone to it. As time goes by and searchers fail to find the golden prize, interest will taper off and the novelty will exist only in the hearts of the many hunters who have poured their souls into a dream. New adventures will be born, and Fenn’s trove will play host to the night creatures that scurry by in search of that which they need to exist. The future may land some un-expecting adventurer right on top of the dream that has eluded so many. By then it will have a different meaning and the believers will be long gone, or in no shape to really give a hoot. I say all this, really, to remind myself that the odds of winning powerball are most likely better than finding a 10″x10″x5″ bronze box some where in umpty ump gazillion acres of search area ! But hey ! What the heck else is there, for those who wish to believe?….

    • Ken,

      I believe that in the end, the chest will end up where Forrest wants it to. I also believe that this was Forrest’s “What if” factor in his plan. A “What if” that would benefit more then one individual. His use of the word “deserving” in one of his comments tells me this. But, what do I know.

    • Ken,
      You seem to discredit the most important part of the Chase, its purpose. I feel you or anyone who thinks like you would do better to play the lottery than searching. For I believe this chase is laid out for someone who gets the thought process of the planner.
      I believe it will be found this summer, YES this summer only to smash the sour grapes that couldnt just be happy wine. f wanted this to be found by someone who gets him, who gets what matters to him.
      And what a better way for it to be found in the peak of the hype, by a Navy veteran who solved the Air Force fella’s amazing treasure hunt!

      • Hey Navy ! Obviously you misunderstood my meaning completely. Just about the way most misunderstand this whole Chase. My point, was to say that there will always be the naysayers(non- believers) and there are certainly the believers. The believers will plug away without all the bravado and “look at me” posts, and take responsibility for their own actions here on Dal’s blog and in the field searching. IMO, the generality in regards to all of Forrest’s statements and the obvious wide range of ideas concerning the clues, truly shows how substantial the odds are. I DO BELIEVE the chest will eventually be located by one person. This summer ? By a Navy veteran? Who knows for sure ? This old Jar Head thinks that the rumble in the jungle has just begun!! And just so you know, I wish all who search, the best of luck. I also hope that safety is the motto for all. Best KEN

        • Sounds like you’re ready for “rattle battle” Ken.. 🙂 Semper Fi Brother

          • Nah… I’m all peace and love these days. Heck, I’ve probably had more sea duty than most regular Navy folk. We’re all brothers and sisters here and there’s no room for sour grapes..I guess

          • Semper Fi to all you old salts…

            I wish everyone good luck in there chase. And I agree that safety for all is the most important. I don’t enjoy sad stories.

            But remember, this is not about luck. It is about the ability to solve the poem and weed thru the fluff…kiss

            Lets not forget what the purpose of posting here is for most, to learn. My post are much deeper than most give credit. Tho im sure the silent trolls appreciate the help. You know there are many out there.

            But in poker if you don’t sell an idea you can never get feedback to get a read. One that will allow you to gain info on the opponents hand. So if you see something as bravado or needing self attention, just know you have only misread.

            Regardless, some sailors luv the jungle, me being one, but don’t worry about a rumble, you will never see me. I will be in and out without a peep.

            HOOhYAA Devil dogs!

        • Old man Branson rarely even cracks a grin and his poker skills are pretty darn good

  9. GG, you are one of the believers, and you know enough to keep on believing. As Clint Eastwood said in one of his movies” Deserve has nothin’ to do with it”…as Little Bill was staring into the barrel of the rifle.

  10. The latest question on Jenny’s site leads me to believe that the treasure is not in a cave. But, of course, you never know for sure when Forrest answers a question! 🙂

    • Woo! And did you see the one about red herrings / false clues?? THAT argument can be put to rest finally !

    • He said the blaze is not in a cave. It could be that the blaze is just right outside the cave and it leads you to the cave to find the TC.

      • Weird, when I read that statement this morning I could have sworn the question was about needing a flashlight to find the treasure, not the blaze! I wonder if the question was altered or if I misread it? It was early so who knows. 🙂

        At one time f said bring a sandwich and a flashlight to find the treasure and then later he said you would only need a flashlight if you were searching at night. So, I still think the treasure is not in a cave.

  11. My current solve attempt suggests that Mr. Fenn did not take any “trail” to hide the chest, but there is indeed a hiking trail nearby…certainly within “500ft”. It is just the way the landscape lays out as the direct way to the chest using the clues in the poem…particularly “look quickly down, your quest to cease, but tarry scant with marvel gaze, just take the chest and go in peace”. The trail is there, but the clues do not make use of it in my latest interpretation.

  12. navyigator, that would be me. i”m a navy veteran, where should i look. i”ve read the poem and i”ve read the book. but, like the defective detective, i don”t have a clue, do you.

  13. Windsurfer is your solve in Colorado mine is and uses landscape also and trail is there but does not need in location of the chest

    • Hi Old Choctaw,

      Yes, my latest solve attempt is in Colorado not but a few hours from my house. I suppose I could go check it out tomorrow, but I am not that motivated at the moment. My current solution is very simple compared to previous ones, and uses every word and line in the poem….many of which match with the landscape like stepping stones.

      Maybe we are thinking along the same lines OC.

  14. Here’s a contradiction in his statements that bothers me. He’s encouraged searchers to “show it to a child”, although I don’t have that specific reference on hand. He’s now said, “an average person can find the chest”, or something like that. At the same time he said, “it’s difficult, but not impossible”. And the whole while, a multitude of pretty sharp people have searched, some of them for 4 years, and come up empty. Does it not seem like there is a contradiction in there somewhere?

    • He said solve the poem and it would take you to the chest then he’s gave hints and clues it’s going to be tuff to find but we are going to have to work for it mr. Fenn is not going to hand it to us

    • Spoon,

      Previously I’ve stated that those remarks you refer to, say to us that there is more simplicity to the poem, that many people are not seeing. His reference to a child is to point out that we are overthinking it. A child sees things in a simpler way, not complicated, because they haven’t been yet polluted by society.

      Reference to “not easy, but not impossible” says the same thing. You’re not going to just read it and go to the chest. You’ve got to look deeper. But as always, this is just my way of seeing it.

      • On the money there Germanguy. Only my simplier, uncomplicated mind and solve were intact before I signed on to the blogs a few months ago. Everyone else’s excellent solves/ideas seem to confuuuuse my line of thinking more than new hints from Mr. Fenn on Mysterious Writings..

        Someone recently mentioned Forrest was a surveyor. Do you know if this is confirmed data? If so, I do believe it’s quite relevant to finding the TC’s parcel of land.

          • @Deb – thank you for the surveyor confirmation! I appreciate your help, as I didn’t join Dal’s blog until April. I’ve missed key conversations. Today I researched 2 states/5 counties trying to link FF to mining claims. As a surveyor he would have known mining claims were given to people for $2/acre. The trick is knowing what name(s) he may have used. Didn’t find a ff claim, but found different Fenn property ownership in Madison county which was an odd parcel linked to owners in Lander, Wyo.

            It’s certainly not for lack of trying that we all come up empty handed!!

      • Germanguy,

        I agree, and your statement reminds me of a recent story from a cousin illustrating a kids perspective.

        In May I attended a nephew’s high school graduation and while there I was visiting with some extended relatives. One cousin had a young daughter that was just starting pre-school & during the interview process she was asked if she could say her ABCs. She did of course..A,B,C…and so forth. When she finished, the interviewer then asked if she could say them backwards. With a puzzled look on her face at such a silly question, she immediately complied and did a 180 on her heels facing away from the interviewer and started again. A,B,C… 🙂

        Sadly, she had no interest in reading or listening to the TOTC poem.


    • Spoon-
      Not to me…
      Children use less fettered thinking processes than socialized, informed and educated adults. A second opinion never hurts. Just because an average person “can’ find the chest does not mean one will. I think he is just saying that you don’t need to be a mathematical genius or a forensics expert or have an IQ of more than 100. It’s difficult because it will require “work” to solve. Crossword puzzles might be a good example …some are easy, some are medium and some are hard. Doesn’t mean you can’t figure out the “hard” puzzles. But they will require more work than the “easy” puzzles. Forrest’s puzzle may take years and years of work…or maybe someone will walk up with a completely different approach and figure it out quickly…not because she’s smarter…but because she thought about it the way Forrest is thinking about it.

      • Good comments to think about. I’ve been thinking a child or kid thinks in a way of metaphors. A child doesn’t always tell whole truths or speaks in a way that implies a specific meaning but is dramatized just a bit.
        I remember as a child touching a hot iron with my finger then telling my mother I was bitten by a vampire when she saw the small red mark. Looking back I think of all the times I’ve said things like that…I got more laughs then punishment.
        As we grow older it seems we want more straightforward answers. Time constraints and not wanting to deal with silliness remove the vivid imagination we had as a child. Practice (or a disorder) is slowly bringing mind back to those days.

      • On asking a Child, I have to ask myself this…if knowledge is a key to this poem then what child would have the “knowledge” to understand any part of the poem…?
        Would a child on the east coast of the US have the same knowledge as a child on the west coast of the US…? I have Always believed the chest is in YNP…therefore a child with “knowledge” of YNP “could” be a Junior Ranger :mrgreen:

        Course…I am from the Southeast US and know nothing about the Rockies…

      • You typed…..not because SHE’S smarter…but because SHE thought about it…… I suppose you anticipate a female finding the TC?

    • Spoon,

      Don’t know Mr. Fenn personally, yet…But I don’t see his comments as contradictory…rather, various ways of telling us that anyone has the capability of figuring out this puzzle…

      Could be that hastiness in searching thither and yon or researching beyond the scope of sensibility has so muddied the waters as to obscure the simplicity of what is hidden within the poem…

      I fully believe reading, thinking, and analyzing the poem with a smidgen of imagination will reveal more to anyone of us than we realize…

      Knowledge has it’s limits, imagination knows no bounds…


    • Based on what I’ve seen posted in this forum, I believe that
      most people (that post here) are over-thinking the poem.
      I don’t think a ten-year-old child is likely to over-think it.

      My solve is pretty simple and straightforward, and the
      poem (the way I interpret it) is clever and requires some
      imagination. But I don’t think the poem or its “architect”
      are devious, dastardly, etc. What I see more of can
      legitimately be called BRILLIANT. I am not willing to
      comment more about my choice of words in this posting
      at this time. But soon, I will be willing to comment about
      the choice of words.

      The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

      Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe.

  15. Has Forrest Eliminated Yellowstone or any other National Park?

    Quote From Forrest on Jenny Klines Mysterious Writings blog:
    Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. However, it reminds me of the worn-out axiom, “If you ain’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes.” When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure.f

    Many argue that the above quote infers that the chest is not in Yellowstone because the first sentence tells people that generally speaking we should stay on established trails and that Yellowstone is a good example of such a place where we should stay on established trails. The last sentence tells us directly that the chest is not in close proximity to a trail.

    Why leave out the middle three sentences? Possibly because it’s convenient and doesn’t advance such an argument. Those who read the blog are quite familiar with this tactic. But I believe the entire statement is at play here. Not just a few selected sentences, and when I read the entire response, I find a concise and well crafted response by a person very adept at making multiple points in just a few sentences. But not if you don’t understand how to listen. I think many, including myself, do sometimes leap to conclusions without listening to the entire message rather than only the parts we WANT to hear.

    First of all, the hunt has a problem. The administration in Yellowstone is not happy about searchers digging up Yellowstone, getting into places where they need to be rescued and breaking rules as they look for the treasure. I don’t blame them. I was once asked by a Public Affairs official from the YNP administration if I thought Forrest would eliminate YNP from the search area. So it’s clear to me that they fret about people breaking rules and getting in trouble on their turf. But Forrest has never said anyone needs to break the rules to get at the treasure and he has said over and over “don’t go anywhere a 79 or 80 year old wouldn’t go.” People listen with one ear and hear different things. Almost every day I see a response to something on this blog and I wonder “how did they infer that?”.

    Second, Forrest does not intend to eliminate any large portion of land like a national park from the hunt. This quote from Forrest is part of the recent Australian Dateline story:
    I’ve said in my book that the treasure is hidden in the rocky mountains north of Santa Fe – and I’m not going to tell the Indians it’s not on Indian land, I’m not going to tell the forest service it’s not on forest service land, I’m not going to tell some rancher out there it’s not on his land – it’s in the rocky mountains and I’m not going to narrow the search down.

    So lets take a look at those middle three sentences from the Jenny Kile blog question again:
    However, it reminds me of the worn-out axiom, “If you ain’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes.” When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me.
    It’s clear to me that the first sentence is appeasing the Yellowstone rangers. Forrest is respecting their wish that he not encourage searchers to break the rules and not encourage them to put themselves at risk.

    In the second sentence he is telling you how he feels about being on trails and following on the path with others in front of him. I believe he is saying it’s not much of an adventure for him to stay on that trail.

    The third sentence states that sentiment exactly.

    He is not encouraging anyone to break the rules or get in trouble. But he is telling you what HE, FORREST B. FENN would do if he was in the desert or the mountains. For HIM, adventure is not about walking the well trodden trail. But rest assured Ranger Reid, he has not encouraged others to break your rules.

    Finally, one more quote from Forrest that I cannot point to because I am not certain it’s in writing anywhere. In my visits with Forrest he has often said to me as we talk about exploring or leading or success:
    Am I the only person who likes to bump my tires against the curb?

    I know exactly what he means by this. He is asking me if he is the only person pushing the envelope to see what happens. He is telling me that sometimes you have to experiment a little and see what’s outside of those constrictive places a rigid society expects us to remain within.

    I think Forrest has cleverly crafted a deliberate message that appeases Ranger Reid on one hand and also tells us exactly where to “grab every banana” on the other.

    Forrest is saying we SHOULD stay on that trail because those are the rules, and in his second breath he is telling us that nobody reaches the moon by staying on earth.

    Forrest hid that treasure. We know he did not hide it near a human made trail. We know he does not intend to narrow the search area. We know it’s in the Rocky Mountains, north of Santa Fe. I think it’s fairly obvious that he has not taken Yellowstone or Glacier or any other national park off the game table.

    • Dal- You may be interested to know that I emailed f this morning and asked him specifically if he intended to exclude YNP from the search area with that statement. Within minutes he responded with an answer of ‘No’.

    • dal and others,

      What does “close proximity” mean to you? Recall that Mr. Fenn indicated that some searchers have been within 500ft of the TC I believe. To me this likely means that there is some sort of trail or road within 500ft.

      Have any thoughts on the matter?

      • Windsurfer,

        Close proximity would fit with the 500 feet, but keep in mind, the “within” says that it could be anywhere from 1 – 500 feet. Don’t be fooled by the comment.

        • Totally Agree GG,

          I think there must be a trail 500ft or less from the TC. Most people don’t seem to “off-road” their walk-abouts as it appears Mr. Fenn like to do. i am in the trail within 500ft camp, but my solve does not make use of the trail based on the clues. The trail is there, but not necessary and not in sequence with the clues as I see them currently, but it is highly likely that people continue to march by the TC within 500ft even today.

      • Windsurfer – some of the more recent discussions lead me to believe it could be 500 vertical feet. Perhaps a trail below with a view of a cliff or blaze above the trail.

        I found such a place in MT where the main trail was 500 feet below a ridge line where the less travelled trail led on top of the ridge. There was a cliff with a natural “F” and skull type formation on the rocks. Ran out of time to hike it, but hope to return someday. Only snag was it could not easily be done once, much less twice with 21 lbs. He’s never indicated a horse or mule was involved.

        • Nor,

          Could be. My first solve attempt was Tower Falls in YNP. Thought the TC would be at the bottom of the falls and the road above is roughly 500 ft straight up from the bottom. That has been my only vertical interpretation of the 500ft comment. Turns out you cannot hike back to the Falls in YNP because of a rockslide some 20 years ago. I knew this before I went searching, but I was also onto another solve as well by then so I did not think the TC would be there…just a great place to visit.

      • Wind-
        I don’t know exactly what to expect by that. Terrain would make a difference in how I calculated “close proximity”.
        In a wide flat basin I might consider a trail in CP if it were a quarter mile away. In a narrow canyon I might imagine that close proximity would exclude a trail above me on the canyon rim..even if it was only 500ft above me.

    • Dang Dal he’s just giving you free money and you still won’t take it. (Appeasement huh 🙂 well I happen to believe he’s subtly nudging us away from Yellowstone towards the desert but of course we can argue that till the cows come home. What I find of interest is the not in close proximity to a “human trail” part IMPLYING that it is within proximity to an animal trail. For the sake of disscusion let’s say 50ft or so.

      • It’s amazing sometimes the things right in front of us we do not see! Duh! Thx, cat cut, somehow you made it click for me! 🙂 But I’m tired…could just be neurons misfiring! 🙂

      • Cat cut, you brought up a good point, I think. But
        if a trail is used by animals and also by people, why
        would it not be called a “human trail”? Do you think
        that FF was, by implication, referring to “marked,
        named, or established (and probably thus named)”
        trails? If I find a trail littered with soda cans or
        Grapette bottles, cigarette butts, or other things
        put their by one or more humans, I’m considering
        it a “human trail”, regardless of whether it is
        marked by a sign or indicated on a map.

        My personal opinion is that FF was referring to any
        footpath (marked by a sign), bicycle path (graded
        or paved), or motor vehicle path (graded or paved).
        This would include a dirt road, gravel road, or more
        conventional (paved) road of any width. But not
        simply the marks left on the ground by one vehicle
        going one way (i.e., to hide the treasure) in, and
        one way (i.e., returning from the task of hiding the
        TC) out.

        The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

        Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe.

    • YNP allows you to go off trail – – where appropriate. They have lots of signs telling you not to do so when it would be bad for your safety, bad for the park’s wildlife, or bad for resource protection for you to do so. I think Forrest is saying you should stay on established trails in Yellowstone when you are required to and when you are uncertain of the rules for the area you’re in. If you know you’re in an area where it’s permitted and you know what you’re doing … then off-trail is more satisfying. But don’t presume that it’s either permitted or safe just anywhere. “Choose … but choose wisely.”

    • Nice find GG. Thanks, from a USAF vet.

      Lt. Col. Morse and Maj. Fenn…

      I salute you, Sirs….

      And may we never forget!….

      Ssgt. Smith, USAF, 1969 – 1979

      “And today I touched the hand of God.”

  16. Hey all,

    Here is a “get in Mr. Fenn’s psychy” thought. Mr. Fenn mentions that the TC is hidden above 5000 ft and below 10,200 ft. As an engineer, the numbers seem to tell me something in terms of significant figures. Specifically, why not 10,000 ft? Why not 11,000 ft….also tree line in the Rockies?

    My suspicion is that the 10,200 ft number is significant and the treasure is located very near this elevation.

    But a word of caution regarding engineers…sometimes things break!

    Any thoughts y’all?

    • Windsurfer – IMO the 10,200 reference is a general treeline or timberline reference which correlates in one possible way to “in the wood” meaning you will find the TC below timberline, in a forested area, or copse of trees. Depending on weather patterns, the tree line can be at different elevations. Personally, I don’t think TC is anywhere near 10,200 elevation. If it is, I’m toast – out of breath thinking about hiking that altitude.

      With regard to canyon 5000 ft. reference, IMO FF’s letting us know to go back up in elevation from canyon. Definitely eliminates many canyons from the search area. My solve for correct canyon is right at 5000 ft. so of course, I like it 🙂

  17. Anyone with ideas? I’m being ‘childish’ tonight. Here are my 3rd grade level Montana thoughts on “WORTH THE COLD” 1. Montana has the coldest recorded temp. -70F in the lower 48 states 2. MT is the farthest North 3.TC could be on a section #32 w/in township. 4. dictionary def. also says, “worth the wait through winter.” Perhaps Forrest provided both broad location qualifiers and then specific qualifiers as in cross creek to TC.

    • Norwegian,

      In my past attempts I tried to force fit “worth the cold” to my solve with things like, cold at elevation, cold water, cold bronze TC, cold searching (i.e. all these failures), cold email responses from Mr. Fenn, etc.

      My latest attempt makes the most sense and is very simple. Following the clues as a map of stepping stones, I am taken to a precise spot at a specific point on a creek. But what to do now?
      For my solve, “worth the cold” is simply telling me that I must now cross the creek …get cold…and look in the wood directly on the other side. There are several “Brave” elements in play at this point as well.

      Remember, Mr. Fenn has stated that sequence is important.

      • Windsurfer – thanks. I’m once again (in my mind) at the end of my solve running in circles around ‘cold & effort.’

        When you refer to your solve’s creek crossing are you actually wading the creek? If simply crossing by bridge, how does that qualify for cold?

        • Norwegian,

          In my solve, I must wade across the creek to follow the poem. Although I could go around, but the poem clues lead through the creek…hence the cold.

        • Norwegian,

          It may also be that you have to stand in the creek to retrieve the TC from the wood on the bank…now that would be cold and brave. The creek in my solve is fresh snowmelt…yikes!

          • Hey WindSurfer – thanks for your dialogue. It’s always nice knowing I’m not in a monologue on the blog! In late May my family searched my solve and waded a creek of snowmelt searching several areas. Spring run off escalated in 2 days of warm weather to the point we had to go to town for waders and put my 19 year old in the creek. We searched inside a tree along the creek’s bank with a perfect white blaze running right down into the creek. Came up empty. Great place to play and enjoy nature. The reason I’m unwilling to post my solve isn’t because I believe it’s correct. Rather, I don’t want the unspoiled beauty of a special place dug up by lurkers.

  18. Here’s my big ‘ask’ for the evening…

    If at your solve you found a cliff resembling a fortress or ‘fort’ with a natural “F” blaze on the surface, would that qualify as… your ‘F’ fort – will be worth the cold?

  19. Hi Nor,
    I tried for quite a while to make a X from different fort coordinates. Cliffs that look like a fort could be a possibility.

  20. Perhaps “your effort will be worth the cold” is just FF’s way of telling us when you find the chest it will be worth all the efforts you have made, and all the times you were “cold,” as in “not close”. Did you ever play the game where you hid something and then told the people looking for it whether they were hot, warm, cool, or cold? He may just be saying finding it will be worth all the times you didn’t find it.
    Also, since he has ruled out red herrings and false clues…doesn’t that pretty much solidify the idea that stanza six has been solved? There’s no denying that when you hear him, and listen that you get FBF URANIUM, ten letters that are clearly present phonetically…LISTEN becomes LIST TEN…too big a coincidence not to be considered as a clue solved in my opinion…EVERYONE has at least one, maybe two clues solved now!! Whether you choose to see it germanguys way, or my way, the solve remains the same as far as stanza six goes…seems undeniable to me.

    • Michael D,

      I have read all of your posts over the past month and myself took a complicated path in my first search. I think it is so much more simple – actually childish simple. You want to join another search team and be my searcher?


    • Michael D: each time I read ‘fbf uranium’ it whispers this is the larger, important agenda. When you read TOTC does it whisper yo you that your Uranium solve belongs adjacent YNP instead if Colorado?

    • Sorry, Michael. Just like you, my personal solve for clues 8&9 are still my personal favorite (and seem too perfect to not be the real answer), and they’ve got zilch to do about uranium , in either, IMHO.
      Ultimately, None of us can truly say we’ve got any of the clues right until we’ve got the chest in hand.

      Happy hunting though!!

      • Map…is your solve so literally right in front of you for all to see? There’s no denying FF is telling us to hear him and listen right before he spells out those letters!! trust me…I WANT to walk away from them…but I cannot!! ITS TOO DARN GOOD TO BE A COINCIDENCE!!?? WHO ELSE thinks so too…Sorry…not yelling.

  21. Count me into the “I don’t think so” group. I think it took a lot of massaging and creativity to get FBF URANIUM out of that stanza. I am much more childish in my approach to the poem…and coincidentally in my approach to life!

    Good luck:)

      • I am not agreeing that you are childish, 🙂 (although you might be, that is not for me to say) but that I am with you in the “I don’t think so” group with you.

        • Mark J. too funny…although being called childish wouldn’t be the worst I’ve suffered. A fresh, un-jaded, inquisitive view of the world (and this chase in particular) might just be the golden ticket!

  22. Wow…I think it is rather obvious and not at all massaged….but I guess that is why I haven’t found it. How many letters can you pull out of stanza six by LISTENING…..F B F U R A N I U ….and then 1’m weak…seems logical to me…? Somebody HELP me get over that!! I’m in a rut!!

      • OC,

        My solve has nothing to do with MD’s uranium technique. My approach this time around is literal imagery….hear ye!

        • I’m Behind I guess who gas been saying things about uranium was that just Michael ‘s solve or has forrest said something

        • Windsurfer, when you said “literal imagery”, were
          you referring to literature, or some imagery that
          isn’t related to literature?

  23. Pattern recognition is a double edged sword. We see what we want to see. Kind of like the folks that always find a picture of the Virgin Mary in a water stain, or Abraham Lincolns portrait in a potato chip.

  24. Michael D

    Did forrest say anything about uranium or just your solve ?????

  25. What I mean by openly is that he mentions radiation and the Atomic bomb in the book…but never refers to uranium directly.

  26. Hi everyone, I had just read the latest question/answer with Forrest:

    “Do you think that someone who is sure about the location of the home of Brown could reverse-engineer where warm waters halt? ~Ben Raylor

    Thanks for the question Ben.
    If you are sure about the location of home of Brown why are you concerned about where warm waters halt? But to answer your question, sure you could and a few searchers might throw in some gas money for a percentage of the take. Good luck.f”

    Up until seeing this I’ve had a theory that WWWH and HOB were possibly referencing the same location.

    Wondering if there are any thoughts out there that definitely proves that theory wrong. Forrest’s answer doesn’t specifically that the gas money would be used to go ‘back’ to WWWH

    or am I overthinking this lol

    • Evil,

      If you reverse engineer the poem, why would you even need to be concerned with WWWH? Doesn’t make sense. Forrest tells everyone to follow the poem “precisely” (first clue to last clue). If you could reverse engineer the poem, you’d find the chest in the first step. 🙂

      • Hi Germanguy,

        I completely agree the question doesn’t make sense. My concern is over the possibility that WWWH and HOB are references the same location.

        And yep, I understand the clues are to be followed in order.

        I believe Forrest purposely misplaced a period after: ‘Not far, but too far to walk.’ Where it actually should be a comma.

        Unless I’m off on my theory and grammar, if he used comma then ‘Put in below the home of Brown’ becomes a description of direction from WWWH.

        or maybe I need more coffee

        • Evil,
          Caution here. Everything Forrest does is deliberate. Consider those 2 sentences as individual clues and not as one clue.

        • my solution theory on put in below, one meaning being puint below. hinting at point below.

          a period is like a point, whereas a comma is not, so directly preceding put in below is a period as part of the hint confirmation here

    • to be clear, Forrest says in his answer we can reverse engineer the poem

      more specifically, a certain part of it, from HOB back to WWH

      he also says in an answer to another question, it is a mistake to try and start with the blaze, so apparently we cant or shouldn’t try to reverse engineer from the blaze (or try to start there not having solved anything prior)

      the question arises of course, that if you identify something after the beginning, then why would you even want to reverse engineer?

      Forrest asks the question, why would we want to reverse to figure out WWH? (if we know for sure HOB)

      i think we need to take notice of the fact though, that in addressing the question, Forrest gives a direct answer, we can in fact reverse engineer from HOB to WWH, however as far as why we would want to, he doesnt give a direct answer, only asks a question, which may imply that you dont need to but really he doesnt say it, only asks the question

      this may be a bit of a trick answer because the truth may be there are important reasons to reverse and identify what WWH is, if you know for sure the HOB

      • Well he also said you can’t solve the poem with just the WWH clue and north of Santa Fe. So IMO, all the clues support each other and the solution. The important reason to work backward is a proper WWH will dovetail with the HOB. You can guess at HOB and try to work backward, but if you don’t have a WWH that supports HOB you’re better off playing Canasta. My opinion…not the same place.

        • i agree they are not the same place

          and whereas HOB is a place, WWH is more than just a place, it is also more than one idea, which connect at a point of commonality, and the understanding of which is important to figuring the whole poem path

        • Let me restate that a little more clearly. F is telling us that if we don’t have a unified solution with correct answers to all the clues then you can’t be confident that you know where the TC is. If you truly know the HOB you could work backward, but only by knowing all the clues can you be sure any one of them is correct. He’s telling us to stop guessing at individual clues.

          • correct, them clues gotta roll forwards and backards.

            they all rest on each other,

          • I found in my solution that the clues are connected and that you really can not find a clue in the middle of the poem cause the clue before it holds the key to the next. This method of reading the clues explains why you must know the first clue.

          • Hmmmm. My latest attempt has the clues in stepping stone type order, but not necessarily connected where one is the key to the next, but simply next in line on the trail. However, the approach to WWWH points to a specific HOB, but that is probably true of any solve.

  27. To everyone

    I had said that this would be my last adventure. And I was going to put my solve up but I have changed my mind at this time due to me doing more research when I got back home I will do another adventure hopefully soon. There is one more area to my location to search. 🙂 I just didn’t want to be accused of a liar, when that’s not the case. Y’all all know this is addicting:) !!!!!

  28. I am a Civil Engineer by education and currently work for a construction company that is building scrubber units on an existing power plant. We reverse engineer all of the time. Why we do that is to make sure we are on a good path going forward so we do not have to do a lot of rework. IMHO

    • Well Nancy the person that figures out the solution to treat the coal with on the front end and get the patents will make a mint if they hurry and prove it works you guys are on the back end

  29. A question I wish Jenny would ask Forrest is “What about the treasure chest location/FF final resting place would lend itself to archeological discovery 1,000 or 10,000 years from now. What does everyone think?

    • BW – those are questions from folks like you and me (one of them IS mine 🙂 ) — so go ask it! Go to her site and scroll up to ‘contact’ and put your question there. Then wait a couple weeks and see what happens!

  30. Let Freedom Ring…

    “You have to love a nation that celebrates its independence every July 4, not with a parade of guns, tanks, and soldiers who file by the White House in a show of strength and muscle, but with family picnics where kids throw Frisbees, the potato salad gets iffy, and the flies die from happiness. You may think you have overeaten, but it is patriotism.”

    ― Erma Bombeck

    My personal thanks to each Veteran who rings our nations bell of freedom…Happy 4th friends!

  31. You told a reporter that there are three or four clues in the second stanza. Were you telling the truth? ~Alison R

    I don’t know what it is about girls but when I say something they automatically ask if I’m lying. Shame on you Allison R. I promise you that I get more things right than most reporters. If you were here I would make you take a dose of castor oil. Besides, if I lied to the reporter what makes you think I would tell you the truth?

    Sorry Alison, I’m off my soap box now. No, I was not lying but I don’t remember a reporter asking me such a question.f

    this part of f’s answer “Besides, if I lied to the reporter what makes you think I would tell you the truth?” i find to be very interesting

    as far as the rest of this whole Q&A it really is a bit of a mess.

    f says that he doesn’t remember a reporter asking him such a question, but Alison R. doesn’t mention anything about a reporter’s question.

    the question is flawed because f never made the statement. what happened is in a WGN radio interview, the interviewer was reading f’s poem to him, the second stanza, when she got done f made the comment ‘that sounds like 3 or 4 clues right there’

    f says ‘no i was not lying’ when typically a person would say, i didn’t say that, or they would correct the questions premise, or they would say, i dont recall saying that. it comes across as a one size fits all response that is basically saying, if you ask me if i am lying, the answer will always be, no, i am not lying, even if you are asking me something i never said, i will just say, no i am not lying

    and add to this the previous line, which is essentially saying … and besides if i am lying, what makes you think i would ever tell you?

  32. “The clues did not exist when I was a kid but most of the places the clues refer to did.”

    He wrote the poem long after he was young(er)…therefore it makes sense that the clues did not exist when he was a kid because the poem did not exist.

    • Dan, I agree, the clues didn’t exist because he hadn’t written the poem yet. What I find interesting is he said most of the places the clues refer to did.

      “Most” of the places did……does this mean some of the places the clues refer to didn’t exist when he was a kid?

        • emmett…that is not for certain. Keep in mind that fur trappers, early pioneers and native americans used “markers” to mark trails. Until we find the chest we will not know what the blaze is nor how old it is. It very well could be “before” ff.

        • Emmet-
          Please don’t state your personal opinion as fact. That’s how rumors get started. Make sure it’s stated as opinion..

          • Chris-
            Better hurry then..because I am starting to look like LL Cool J and my blaze will be mostly on my office floor until it’s vacuumed.

          • “mine alone”

            Interesting choice of words from Forrest on today’s Jenny Kyle ?

            that or those belonging to me: the possessive form of I.

            Is this a double entendre implying the noun mine as well??

        • Hey Emmett, are you from my home state and are you setting out on a search for Mr. Fenn’s Chest soon or what are you going to find out Monday? Still in the search and I and my partner are going to think of a very good question to ask FF on Jenny’s site. I want an indebth question so I will have to peruse through my notes and really think about what I am confused or most intrigued about. I will send info if you are interested I believe you gave me your daughter’s number. I still have it and will call if you are interested in discussing clues and what not. MS. Girl

      • The canasta comment is also interesting…most places in New Mexico are named in Spanish, and canasta means “basket”. It’s something to ponder.

        • DanS – there have been prior comments made regarding a tie in to Canasta, possibly WWWH, and TFTW chapter on the Pogzeba tragic plane crash -which is reported to have crashed near Taos but the wreckage found on the Jicarilla Reservation.

          Good good luck with your NM/basket research and your search Dan.

  33. Here it is the 4th of July and the party at my house has yet to begin…but after reading a few things today…I need a few…nope…make that several tylenol for this headache…I feel like a Golden Lab chasing my tail round and round :mrgreen:

    IMO…we continue to complicate things by listening to what Mr f says…or doesn`t say…did he say this…or did he say that…???
    Back to BASICS Folks…we have TTOTC and the Poem…why do we continue to listen to every word said and analyze them…? Have we given up on what we already have therefore we “need” more input…?

    Think about this…Mr f said a few ScrapBooks back that it is time to sit back and think…not his “exact” words but pretty close. So…do we listen or do we not…?


    Maybe with the spring run off the creek is too high to cross…or the area is too wet to travel…or maybe…just maybe…we can not find where warm waters Halt with the spring run off…?

    Just my opinion…so who has the bottle of tylenol…?

    • Agreed. This isn’t a Geo-cache treasure hunt, it’s a real one, and it will require thought. Everyone already has what is needed to figure it out. Proceed.

    • Rickinflorida-

      I have to admit I think your right. I was going to post a long drawn out comment on daffodils but I cut it down to half. The second half was a little narcissistic but one whale of a tale.

      “…I wish someone would ask me a question that I would feel comfortable answering, like what color is a daffodil. ”f

      Does he really want us to ask the color of a daffodil or are there more layers to his intended meaning?

      1. I can’t believe he found a word in which it is unclear from
      where the “d” at the beginning came from.
      2. ff in the middle of the word–nice touch!
      3. Daffodil is a spring flower …symbolizes rebirth and new
      4. Deleted….

      Swan – the Longfellow poem was a good post on the poetry page.

      – My bottles empty.

  34. Joe…I have a full bottle for you

    Happy 4th

    Did you know…
    The daffodil is the American Cancer Society’s symbol of new life and hope that a cure for cancer will be found. “You see a daffodil and know there’s hope,” says Debbie Jaramillo, volunteer chair, California Division Daffodil Days. “And with hope, there’s a cure. They’re a burst of sunshine, a ray of hope. Even if it is still cold outside, you know there’s warmth and light ahead.”

    Dang…did I just look that up because Mr f mentioned it…??????

    • Rickinflorida-

      That piece of information would have been #1 on my list if I were paying attention and more thoughtful. Was more focused on fantasy instead of reality.
      I should have known that well before now. I wouldn’t know now if I didn’t post.
      Thank you for pointing it out.

  35. Just checking in have not looked at FF Treasure Blogs in a few days!!! I believe I heard the symbolism of the daffodil way back and some of most of us already have researched it and some of its connections to life death and the poem!!! Is everyone getting like me and wondering what we are missing on our journey and quest to solve this puzzle and trail of a man’s life to find his final resting place along with placing his treasures next to him? I am in the chase and ponder why we cannot make it simplier to solve or are just not seeing what is right in front of us. It is in a remote area and easy enough for an 80 year old to walk to in two trips and It is where he wanted to be buried or left to leave his bones. It has to be on an Indian dig site that he owns or persons may go to with out fear of getting arrested. An abandioned site for no fear of lots of traffic!! No one would find his bones nor the treasure for years. Research that and we all need to get back to each other and have a group huddle and see where it leads us. See you all in the funny papers and as ALLWAYS CONTINUE THE CHASE….Judy Ms. Girl Thanks for listening to my ramblings and Good Luck—–

  36. Forrest, What’s the minimum number of clues that we need to solve to find the treasure, assuming that we follow the clues in order? `Serge Teteblanche

    Just one Serge, the last one.f

  37. Seems like a good time to post this, and I haven’t had crow in a while so…
    For those suffering or have love ones suffering from cancer… here’s just a thought.

    During Nixon’s adm. He thought he could get a few extra dollars for the war on drugs by proving marijuana was a harmful and bad drug, and would cause someone’s hair to turn white… Okay I made that part up!
    Anyway, he arranged for this University to get some money and do a study. Nixon asked them to do one of those real big scientific dealeos, where they would find and prove pot to be Baddd! I added a few extra Ds f.

    The study was commenced, but sadly, turned out just the opposite of Nixon’s hopes… Now I’m sad… In fact not only did they Not find anything harmful in regards to the evil weed, but instead found that the cannibinoids THC (SP) in the oils that marijuana produced actually attacked cancer cells and reduced them while at the same time made those good healthy cells stronger… Nixon must of pee d’ himself? Then covered up his finds!

    “Undoubtably, the tapes were erased. But I Had nothing to do with it.” My best Nixon impersonation. 🙂 I think Henry Kissinger is still wanted in a few countries?

    Now 40 years later there are over thirty University Studies that tell the exact story I’m telling you today. Pot could be and imo is one of the cures for some types of cancer. Hard to believe, but I will leave Urls/addresses to look it up, and you decide.

    I read yesterday that Cancer was a 160 Billion dollar a year business, weed would kinda end some of that huh?

    Brimley, I posted a few links here if that’s okay?

    I think/hope you folks are all like family, so that’s why I shared this.
    Mark H.

  38. Judy Ms. Girl, you are channeling my thinking… somewhat. I think the treasure spot will have a more poetic symbolism than a uranium pit. Tho there is an appealing sense of balance in the urvan site… so many died from its poison and when done, everything was buried in a big EPA superfund clean-up. The counter balance being that radiation also halted so many cancers & saved so many lives.
    However, the sense I get from reading the short view (the poem) and the long-view (the book) is that he has chosen a treasue site which offers a more attractive appeal than just a statement of irony. I think he prepared a more sentimental covered-dish to bring to that banquet table of history. You may find the box with just feet, eyes, and the poem, but I think you may not understand the treasure without the heart of the book.

    • Pardon any unintended confusion… I meant the impersonal “you” not the specific “you”. My apologies.

  39. I recently had a thought…What if, “your effort will be worth the cold” is telling us to search in winter. Perhaps we can only find the blaze when walking on a tall snow pack. Perhaps he hid the chest in a cave only accessible when there’s six feet of snow on the ground….or perhaps the blaze can only be found when there’s six feet of snow on the ground, (because it is six feet over our heads in summer) and we must then wait until summer to “look quickly down” and find the chest. The heavy loads could be the deep snow resting atop boulders and canyons….and the water high could be the same thing. Just a late night idea…

    • i think some of the hints for ‘cold’ can be found in the Totem chapter with Frosty being like a pseudonym for it.

      i believe f is telling us with the hints in this chapter that ‘cold’ is relating to something that holds a similarity to cold degrees (frosty’s polarity, plus or minus?) but we shouldnt be aiming to search in the cold itself (we made a great team on frosty’s day off)

    • I like the path you are on Mike D. My solve very much includes the element of winter being important. My spot’s texture is greatly affected by the winter and summer. But worth the cold is exactly that, you will get cold if you want to get the chest… all imo.

      But I love to see your wheels are still grinding. Mine never stop even though I love the solve I will verify soon. Can’t wait, I really enjoyed reading everyday when you went out, then seeing your vid with the story. Everyone, seemed on pins and needles.

      • My solve is bolstered by the poem’s line
        “Your effort will be worth the cold.”

        My interpretation of that line is that “the value of the
        effort you put into the search (particularly the BOTG
        part), since it will be rewarded by success in the
        search, is worth (at least) putting up with some
        discomfort (i.e., being cold).” . . . all depending,
        of course, on a good solve.

        Having said that, I believe that the actual travel to
        the TC does not have to involve getting cold. In fact,
        I plan to do it when the air temperature is comfortably warm, and there may well be no water (on the ground, that is) involved. Of course, a hiker should carry
        water to drink.

        Despite all I have just said (above paragraphs), if I am successful, I will probably plan to return to the place at some later time, in a way that does expose me to being cold. But the reason is not specifically based on
        temperature. I don’t particularly want to be cold.
        The reason for the return visit to the hidey place
        is that I want to experience what FF wants a successful
        searcher to experience. I don’t want to share too much information at this time, but in early September 2016 I think I will be willing to share more info.

        Again, I am very much impressed with the wonderful poem. No wonder that it took FF so long to polish to
        this degree of brilliance!

        The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

        Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe.

  40. MD…until we find the chest we may never know. My personal opinion is that Mr f hid it in the fall before the snow. I also believe we need to hunt for the chest in late summer and into fall.
    Worth the cold…again my opinion is that we need to cross a creek and the water temp will be cold.

  41. Jenny has posted that she will no longer be doing questions with Forrest. I just want to thank her for the wonderful job she was doing. The answers that Forrest provided were insightful, humorous, intriguing and thoughtful.

    Thanks Jenny 🙂

  42. SIAP. I am new to the chase. I have read a bunch the last few weeks, but not everything.

    This Q & A was posted on Jenny’s site. Mr. Fenn’s response if taken literally leaves me to believe that Yellowstone is not a good place to look. He said that in Yellowstone you should stay on the established trails. He also said that their are no human trails in close proximity to where the chest is hidden. I am quite sure that it is not hidden on a trail.

    Question posted 6/28/2014:

    Your words and actions say you are a friend and lover of the environment “more than most.” Do you follow Leave No Trace and did you while hiding the chest? ie stay on established trails. ~Buddy

    Buddy, I think you’re trying to get me in trouble but that’s where I am most of the time anyway, so I’ll answer your questions.
    You may as well ask me if I love the air. I don’t know but, I certainly am an appreciator of nature. “Leave no trace” is a rhetorical statement not intended to be taken literally. For instance it is not feasible for you to not leave a footprint somewhere or a dry fly snagged high on a tree limb, left by your back cast. But I agree with the philosophy of the phrase. I dislike seeing beer cans scattered around when I am fantasizing that I am the only person who has ever been in that spot.
    Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. However, it reminds me of the worn-out axiom, “If you ain’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes.” When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure.f

  43. Apparently I should have posted these comments on this thread rather than nine clues.

    What I notice in Forrest’s photo of the chest showing lid:

    1. The 12th century French castle turret design on the top of the chest also looks like a large Elizabethan style “E”
    2. compare the photo on cover of TTOTC. The one coin singled out with lighting is British with an image of QEII.
    3. A very important question which is tied to the blaze – why a Queen Elizabeth Coin…steeling the spotlight among American eagles and double eagles associated with a decorated US golden pilot?
    4. E & L are letters in the word BLAZE. Maybe they are the blaze you find after following the Y’s, because Why is it.
    5. Note that “EL” is predominately the name for the triune Godhead and used as such in multiple cultures and languages.

    Dal, thanks for allowing me to post. As I’m no longer looking for Fenns gold, perhaps my material will assist someone else in finding it.

    *I would like to confirm that you received my personal email thanking you Dal, as someone seems to be intercepting emails – which is weird unless they believe I have Information with controlling.

  44. Re: Featured Question with Forrest: Treasure Chest Photo Shoot

    Just a guess but looks like Nora Levine was one of Forrest Fenn’s photographers. Oddly the photographers name (Nora Levine) appears in the file name on Dal’s website.

    She does nice work if you ask me!

    • If you look at the question in context of order and tarry,
      You’ll see “no” “I don’t madam” (more subtly) then “Sorry”

    • Hi Goofy,

      I think Mr. Fenn did like the question. His answer is probably meant to be evocative rather than confusing.

      The question (without niggling about the wording) basically asks if the book hints confirm the poem clues. His negative answer says to me that the hints might provide additional context to help solve the clues, but they don’t make any references to the actual places or things that are the “answers” to the clues.

      That should be helpful information for anybody trying to figure out the Lewis and Clark route, or where Cody was roped, or where Highway Hole is located…

  45. How can someone ask a question?

    I’d like to ask Forrest, if I put a pineapple pie on a tree branch in the Gallatin forest. How would you tell me where it is without using the word forest?

    • JD – I read all your posts below. I think ff may have written it also,..especially because it was signed “Philadelphia Franklin”:

      Mr. Forest,
      I was just wondering. If I can find the blase, why should I worry about where warm waters halt? All I need to do is look “quickly down” like the poem says, and there is the treasure, right? ~ Philadelphia Franklin

      “That’s correct Philly, but that’s not a plausible scenario. If you can find a fish already on your hook you needn’t go fishing, right?

      Don’t force those kinds of aberrational thoughts on yourself or you’ll likely walk back to your car with a very light back pack. f”

      • JD and Donna M – My Wise Blaze is across from a Day Use area,…where a searcher or ff could easily park there car,…to go fly fishing or head up to a main trail head with a backpack. If I thought that Wise Blaze was the place to “look quickly down”,…I might look all around just below it,…or go fly fishing from the “brave and in the wood” (Indian-style) canoe I used to go look (thanks again, Donna!). That would be the “light backpack” scenario.

        But I think my Wise Blaze indicates,…by the direction it is looking,…to go here:

        From there it’s no place for the meek, (beware My Grizz!)
        The end is ever drawing nigh,
        There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
        Just heavy loads and water high.

        So then:

        “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze”

        refers to the TRAIL = “blaze” that I need to “look quickly down” (along that creek area),…with that backpack on,…for my “quest to cease”,….to get to my spot,…where I will find ANOTHER blaze and “tarry scant with marvel gaze” and “Just take the chest and go in peace”,…so I can walk back to my car with a FULL backpack. 🙂

        • Let’s hope that it works E*. I am ready for this quest to cease. Good luck to SOMEONE!

          Stay safe.


      • I think that Mr. Fenn’s point is that finding the blaze is not going to happen if you don’t find WWWH first. So the LQD is not going to be an issue.

      • JD – From Jenny’s blog:

        BW says:
        July 14, 2016 at 12:37 pm

        It has been said, on a blog, that Mr. Fenn changes the name of the questioner (to protect the innocent.) So let’s “hypothesize” that he wants us to look at the word/name Benjamin, is he saying turn right from the blaze?

        “From the Hebrew name בִּנְיָמִין (Binyamin) which means “son of the south” or “son of the right hand”. Benjamin in the Old Testament is the twelfth and youngest son of Jacob and the founder of one of the southern tribes of the Hebrews.”

        Should we discuss that “Philadelphia Franklin” signature now????

          • Thanks E* for your posts. You have acquired quite the bountiful trove of treasures to share with us.

            Thanks again for your input. Like
            most “Old Fogies”, I am pretty set in my ways, at least until those ways are proven wrong.

            Until the 23rd, I have to “Stick to my guns”, and not consider alternative interpretations to how I see the poem.

            Hopefully not, but if I am not successful on the 23rd, I am sure that I will be combing your treasure trove for new leads.

            I love your insight, I love your enthusiasm, please “Keep those card and letters a-comin'”


          • JD – All this posting is so you have that little birdie in the back of your mind named E*,…who whispers little thoughts to you WHILE you are on your trip starting on the 23rd,…just in case it helps you with your solve WHILE you are there! No sense in making another trip back,…right???

            Thank you for your appreciation and for playing with me here on Dal’s blog. I really enjoy posting here again. 🙂

          • Thanks again E* for your posts – maybe that little birdie whispering in my ear will bring me fortune and good luck


  46. I’m wondering if the frequency of the comments is a sign of the chase being rushed to a conclusion.I hope not.Maybe I’m just paranoid 😀

    • He’s just trying to get people back on track. “In the box”, so to speak.

  47. The frequency of Forrest’s posts if interesting, to say the least.

    Does it mean that the chase is being rushed to a conclusion?

    I would say “NO” to being rushed. Will the treasure be found
    this search season, I personally hope so. IF my current solve
    does not pan out, I am not sure where I could go to start again.

    Just my opinion. Good luck to all and TRY to STAY SAFE.


  48. I wonder why Forrest used “blase” instead of “Blaze”?

    Does Forrest feel that we searchers, as a whole, are becoming too blase
    about the search, and not taking it seriously enough?

    Another thought. Why did Forrest put “Quickly down” in quotation marks?
    I know that “quickly down” is in the poem, but why did he want to “Bring attention to it” – – like I just did by putting the words in quotation marks.

    The next line segment, to me seems interestingly phrased, “If you can find a fish already on your hook you needn’t go fishing, right?”

    “If you can find a fish…” Wouldn’t one normally say, “If you discover a fish…”

    Why, “If you CAN FIND…” No answers- – -just more questions as usual.

    Good luck all and STAY SAFE


    • I believe it was the person that asked the question that said blase and put the quotation marks around quickly down.

      • I could be 100% wrong, but it is my belief that Forrest creates both the question and his answer to the question, in order to get a particular point out to the public – – US, the searchers.. Just my opinion


    • MAYBE the question you should ask JD is… Why the heck you think FF wrote the question or for that matter, any question offered?

      Fenn has given Q&A’s to MWs that he receive by e-mails or submitted by Jenny and her posters that she send to him for consideration… all have been explained many times in the past… This has been going on for years. Are you in the mind set that these Q&A’s are somehow set up by fenn?

      Instead of jumping the gun, making it sound like this is all a setup on fenn’s part, why not submit the question to Jenny and she can past it on to fenn…. Dear Mr. F ‘Are any of the questions posted on MW’s written by you? and Answered in the same’?

      ** Maybe; suggestion, thought, IMO…..
      ** Instead of; same as above.
      ** Why not; again, same as above.

      • I think I accidently answered your first question before you asked it. I think Forrest, for many months and years has posted things that he felt would be helpful, or who-knows-for-what-reason,
        put things out there for we searchers to chew on…
        the same way that you like to throw things out there for us to chew on Seeker.

        Welcome back.

        Hope your vacation was fun.


      • I think that Jenny’s Q & A’s are Jenny’s questions, and Forrest’s answers. I think that Forrest’s weekly posts are created by Forrest, but as I said, I could EASILY be 100% wrong.


    • JD – On the ff quote:

      “If you can find a fish already on your hook you needn’t go fishing, right?”

      In my case,…I think he is saying that even though the “Fish of a Lifetime” 10lb. Brown trout was caught in the Madison River,…located just where you “look quickly down” while standing at my Wise Blaze,…that is not a place he would fish. Too easy and too crowded. Which is why I feel directed to a more secluded and special potential ff fly fishing spot,…where I think he went “alone in there” to fish. I think he went there to catch a beautiful big Rainbow trout (which he can’t do anymore, because of the new fish barrier they built at the trail head in September 2013!).

      It is interesting that within 2 hours of arriving in that area for the first time,…on 7/28/13,…I walked to the Day Use Area I mentioned and met a fly fisherman. He had just caught a smaller 14″ Rainbow trout,…which I documented in a picture. After my return home,…I texted that image to ff’s email. His response was, “Where did you catch it?” I responded with an image text of that area right below my Wise Blaze above the creek. I hadn’t found that yet.

      Ergo: Don’t look for the bronze chest either in that Day Use area spot,…you need to “go fishing” up that creek.

  49. Welcome back Seeker,
    How was your humble pie?
    From Jenny’s site:
    “Words are so endless for Forrest that I have decided to periodically post “Forrest’s Surprise Words.”

    I say surprise because I don’t ever know when I might get them, and so won’t know what day or time I may post one.

    I’ll just be posting them when I get them- which could be anytime! (And, I should mention, I will still be doing ‘weekly words’– these Surprise Words are just added treasures!)”

      • You had to eat humble pie sometime or another seeing you have been at this so long. I didn’t say you have to like it, just eat it.
        We all have had our share & then some.
        BTW, a pizza is also called a pie.
        Some interesting developments on Jenny’s site, wouldn’t you say?

        • If you’re thinking I was on a search…nope… I had better things to do.

          Developments on MWs… hmm. I found it strange that fenn said he would be ” unable” to locate “any ” bells he buried.

          That makes me ponder about the chest… unless ocourse of he was thinking so far down the road with the bells… he threw them in quicksand.

          Fenn did say he had the same mindset when he wrote the poem… looking down the road a 100, 1000, even 10,000 years.

          • “Better things to do” What is better than accomplishing a goal that you have had for almost 4 years?

            What could be better than finding a treasure worth more than 2 million dollars?

            What could be better than showing the world that all of your “talk” had
            value and merit and substance?

            What could have been better than showing the world that all of your “Questions” had REAL answers?

            Just sayin’


          • Seeker;

            I hope you took my last post with the humorous ribbing that I intended it.

            Glad to have you back.

            Who else can I rib?


          • JD,
            It’s called real life… I don’t need an excuse to enjoy it. I don’t need to be obsessed with the lure of riches. And how do you justify 2 mil plus? Have you been listening to the media again??
            I thought is was up to 5 mil… You need to catch up.
            I should start a class for the noobs, Fennology 101 or maybe, no class at all, study-room.

            I find it funny that you say; “What could be better than showing the world that all of your “talk” had value and merit and substance?” or “What could have been better than showing the world that all of your “Questions” had REAL answers?

            Remind me after the 23rd of this month, when you come back from your searcher to ask the same.

            All “My” talk… lol… that is all anyone is doing… You really are a bit thin skin when it come to me, huh? That ok, I never been accused of being a teddy bear.
            I’m glad I ask question for thought, I hope most here ask themselves questions as well… it says, I’m not braggin I got all the answers, or suggesting fenn is making up Q&A’s or he’s secretly sending messages to me or another, and hiding this by doing it publicly~ leveling the playing field.

            Yep JD. I actually have a life and don’t need the BS excuses enjoy it… I really do have better things to do.

            Ya pickin up what I’m puttin down?
            Just sayin.

          • Seeker;

            We do agree on one thing. After the 23rd, one of us will be eating humble pie and crow. If It is me, I will humbly admit that, for now, I do not know where the treasure is.

            If on the other hand, I DO find the TC, – – – How would you like your Pie and Crow served?

            P.S. I too have a life – a wonderful one at that.


          • It is obvious you did not find the humor. I will try harder next time.

            Lighten up a bit Bud, and I will try to do the same.


    • Be mindful of “nature”: It’s a safe place. – Be mindful of your “health” Don’t go anywhere any 80 year old won’t go. Simply as that!

  50. surprise post late today…..”A polite-like email from Kristie, who admits to being a desk person, prompts me to say that if you are walking long distances in search of the treasure, you’re walking too far. f”

    • Please keep from getting nuked. IMO, Goofy or Dal has warned in the past to share such info by way of a link to Jenny’s site. The link to this “too far” comment by f has already been shared here. I believe it was on Odds and Ends.

      • @Slurbs, I’m assuming you were giving me a friendly reminder? I didn’t even know about this topic heading until just recently, here-to-for I would have posted under ‘odds and ends’ but – ” This is a place we can discuss his “mysterious” answers.” I’ll remember to share the link first and then talk about what the question or word is in the future, thanks! No nukes for me!

        • Hi Slurbs. 1st I knew of this topic heading, too. I’m always late to the party.

  51. What struck me the most was the last part of the answer:

    “It’s just that I enjoy the solitude and the company.” F

    Solitude and company – are these not opposites? Or is he saying – Solitude and the company of myself? If solitude and company are two sides to the same coin, what is in the middle?

    It seems to me that the question uses an interesting mixture of shade, water and trees.

    Did Forrest write the question and answer, or did Sally McIntosh actually write the question? I am not sure on this one.

    Good luck to all searchers, and TRY to STAY SAFE


    • I think of the apples picture in one of Jenny’s post. I do not like McIntosh apples, and have never eaten a Sally Gray.

      • Yes, Mindy –

        I do think pg 123 sums us this Q and A –

        “A passing mood will bring thoughts of loved ones floating back …….waiting for another time.”

        the end………………

  52. I have read over the p[ost several times. The line that says: “Eventually, our efforts began to take on a more polite expression…”

    What a strange set of words – “Polite expression” as a way of saying that business began to pick up.

    Can anyone shed some light on the use of these words?

    Also of interest was the use of “Lumbered along…” Using this word, after Dal’s recent post about “Lumbering” along the shores of Hebgen lake – – Interesting!

    Good luck and TRY to STAY SAFE


    • Jd,

      You said “I have read over the p[ost several times. The line that says: “Eventually, our efforts began to take on a more polite expression…””

      IMO…I think this references:
      Your effort will be worth the cold.
      Perhaps ” cold” is a cold expression…such as disdain or other expressions seen on a face, perhaps a painting or bronze statue?

      Whether the more polite expression is the one to look for? I would say go for the cold.

      Just a possibility… Good luck on your search.

        • hey JD,
          “Your effort will be worth the cold”. I personally have never questioned that part of the stanza. If you remember on page 111 in TTOTC F has a class a school children that visited his art gallery. After the teachers where gone f leaned against a bronze Indian statue and asked the kids “can anyone tell me what this is?” F ended up getting some pretty good answers from the kids but after f f congratulated the class for being so attentive he (f) asked ” Is it hot or cold?” The class couldn’t understand why the bronze Indian was cold to the touch when it was warm in the room. So f asked the kids to ask their parents, why?
          So to me f in the last stanza new who ever found the TC would feel it and it would be cold. Why you ask? Because in the summer months it”s always warm or hot so the bronze would feel cold to the touch and in the colder than warm months when the air is cool or cold the bronze takes that temperature and the chest will still feel cold….
          Forest to me has given us all we need. That said I hope your journey is filled with adventure and gold from the Gentleman that has poured his soul into this poem.
          P.S. I am no longer perplexed. I have found my soul.

          • Timothy – Good thoughts here. Thanks for the input. Because I feel that the TC is in a COLD – glacier fed – stream, I am sure it WILL BE COLD – regardless of time of year. My step-son found this to be true this past week-end.

            Only time will tell.

            Good luck and TRY to STAY SAFE


          • Totally agree Timothy. I have always thought that “cold” means the chest itself because of what he wrote in the book about the school kids.

    • JD, I could ask my polite friend Kristie who works behind a desk. We are going on a trail ride tomorrow I will see what she says.

    • Hi JD. I suppose, if all has gone in your favor, by now you are a richer man. In that case you will care not about my tardy response to your post yesterday. But, just in case you need something to come back to and focus on after your search…


      “Polite expression”. As I don’t come from a southern/Texas disposition, I really don’t know what FF meant by this. But, I will offer an idea: I would venture that he meant he learned he didn’t have to use the “hard sell” anymore because he’d perfected the more tactful “soft sell”.

      Those Spring Interviews Dal recently posted….in at least 2, maybe 3, FF talks about salesmanship and PR, specifically. I think that’s what he was referring to: “Polite Expression” = *The Art of the Deal (substitute “The Thrill of the Chase”?). And he was obviously a master at understanding how that works….a self-deferential comment, a tacit nod, a veiled inference, backing off and letting the reel run a bit, timing the “strike”, and reeling in the “catch”. Just like outsmarting a trout. A spurious thought for your consideration.

      * No allusion to “Trumpiness” intended, implied or invoked.

    • JD, When I think of polite expression, I think of my numerous efforts at practicing something new. I was a ‘horror’ in PE when I had to learn archery. I would say that my beginning with bow and arrow was rigid, awkward, and unsuccessful (unless hitting the basketball net instead of the low bullseye target is success). As time passed, my follow through became smooth, classy, and successful. I would say in the end my form and follow through were polite or a polite expression. I ended with an ‘A’ and the title of ‘most improved’. Practice does not always make perfect; but it makes it refined and polite to coast on comfortably and with some confidence.

      • Thanks all for your input. Nice ideas. I like them very much

        Good luck to all of you in your searches – and TRY to STAY SAFE


  53. I read this today. Seems to rule out any solve about the chest being in a lake, stream, pond or rivulet.

    Posted on October 6, 2015 by Jenny Kile

    forrest fennMr. Fenn,

    Yogi Berra was asked by his wife, “Yogi, if you die before me where do you want to be buried? Montclair, New York or St. Louis?” He is known to have answered, “surprise me”. So if Peggy comes up to you and asks, “Forrest, if you die before me where do you want to be buried?” What would your answer be?” ~Joe

    Joe, thanks for the question. I have no desire to be buried in a box. It’s too dark and cold for me, and too lasting. I would rather go into the silent mountains on a warm sunny day, sit under a tree where the air is fresh and the smell of nature is all around, and let my body slowly decay into the soil. What can be better than that? f

    • LOL, you’ll never get the diehard aquatics to take that as the chest is not in water.
      Forget that the chest is ‘unlock’ or that a searcher can probably retrieve the chest is any weather, or a three year old girl would need some assistance to get to the chest [ I’m pretty sure throwing little sally in 6′ of moving waters would not fall into that category of some assistance ] fenn stated that if he was to because seriously ill… throw himself on the chest…

      The chest must be in water. The poem says water, creek, high water etc. and the KiSS method means water is where the chest lays in wait. No metal detector needed… just scuba gear and a winch that can support 40lbs to yank it out.

      ok ok… just my opinion.

      • Being a die-hard Aquatics Bum, I agree, IMO – it HAS to be in water. Too many clues lead me to this belief.

        Just my opinion


      • I think it may be in a foot or 2 of slow moving water & not in the creek itself, but a pool. I also think it could be fairly close to a creek where it may get a little wet at times. I would say the lid of the chest weighs around 5 pounds & slow moving water should not budge it.
        Yea, just tie a rope around little Sally & throw her in water high & pluck out one coin at a time.
        I am not in the 6′ club at all even if it’s not moving.
        I am in the amphibious club.

    • pdenver – Thank you for posting that! When I went on my first search,…in July/August 2013,…I was running around telling fly fishermen on the Madison River that Jim Slattery at Campfire Lodge (who owns the fly shop also),…had THE BEST Hardy rods and reels right there for them to upgrade! I was like his little roving salesperson: spouting off the technical and performance-related details. We agreed that if I sold enough of them,…I’d get a free night to stay there. It was fun to torment the guide who works in that shop with all my fly fishing questions,…for that whole trip. And the people fishing had to endure that torment also (including Jim’s young nephew). Although I have learned here how to cast,…I have yet to do so on that river. 🙂

      • You’re welcome, E*. I’ve enjoyed your story. I was on the Yellowstone and Gibbon Rivers last week and had a great time fly fishing. It was my first time. I’m certainly in the learning stages. 🙂

  54. Might seem strange to some, however, i can picture it in a ‘standing up’ position in water. ( In any event; being secured by weights}.

    Refer to TTOTC page 57: Skippy was found “in ninety feet of water with his
    weights on.” Forrest goes on to write… “We should have buried hi standing up.”

    “I knew he wouldn’t go in any normal or mundane way.”


  55. Very, very interesting post, and NO Jake, I didn’t go nuts. So as far as Forrest knows, no one has been closer than 200′ Very interesting!


    • JD,

      Welcome back from your search. I hope that you a had a pleasant trip and learned some stuff helpful to you. Glad that you are home safely.


      Windy City

      • Thanks – I learned that the water needs to subside a bit more. I learned that I LOVE being in Wild Wonderful Wyoming with my friends and family. I learned that some of the treasures in life do not come in bronze boxes.

        Thanks for the welcome-back


      • That’s a good question eagles,
        Bronze will be colder than the air around as most metals unless it’s in the sun.
        Moisture would condense on it in the shade if the temp difference is right assuming the air has enough moisture around it.

        • IMO, unless the treasure box is air tight, it would be subject to temperature changes which may cause condensation inside the chest. Maybe that’s why f took measures to insure some of the items would be protected from moisture.

          • Makes sense to me eagles,
            He sealed the olive jar 3 times with wax & made sure the threads were sealed.
            Now I have to go back & play with mud before this amphibian can go back in the water where most of Forrest’s most enjoyable experiences are wet.

            “Ha, elementary question my dear Inohury.
            A friend’s six year-old daughter told me that mud can never dry because if it did it wouldn’t be mud anymore.
            Please don’t ask me to argue the point. f”

            I will ask all of you.
            Is being wet the same as being humid?
            Can dry dirt be dry mud? I will not argue it either.

            You see my point here.
            Why would you need gloves?

  56. “How can anything be in the Rocky Mountains and not be wet,” he said. “Even if it were buried six feet deep, it would still be wet. That’s not a real clue.”

    I ask, how can something in the Rocky Mountains always be wet? It can’t.
    He says it’s not a REAL clue.
    Maybe it’s a hint if it’s not a real clue.
    Why is the chest 42 plus pounds?
    Did dirt get inside or is it water?

      • Yes, humidity will help but there are places in the Rocky’s where the humidity is in the 20’s & 30’s like Big Sky for example although this is an average through the day & dew tends to form at night & first light.

    • Jake, the chest was 42 lbs from the start… there’s 22 troy lbs. plus of gold contents, add precious stones and other item, as well as the chest…dry weight. 42 lbs is what we’ve been told.

        • Jake,
          There are many comment from fenn about the weight of the chest, none of which mentions extra weight such as water etc. There have been descriptions of the contents such as; 265 gold coins of different values, 2 large gold nuggets almost a pound each, hundreds of pacers and precious [ diamonds, rubes etc.] necklace[s]. solid gold frog etc. Fenn even stated [paraphrasing] its weight is almost more than one man can carry.

          My point here is, think about fenn’s comments that he didn’t lock the chest because he didn’t want someone damaging it prying it open… If he thought about that, would he not have thought about the condition of the chest 50 or a 100 years down the road? Fenn also stated that anything in the RM’s will get wet… even went as far to say, if buried six feet in the ground.

          Physics is the study of basic principles that governs the world around us.
          Humidity, rain, snow, fog etc. can easily cause moisture making anything wet … even if covered. So it surprises that some feel wet is hint/clue to the chest being submerged. Fenn took precautions to protect his autobiography that is in the chest, even hair samples… Being in submerged in water does make sense to the Q&A about, Earth, wind, water and fire…

          I doubt that we would have to attempt to pull a 42lb chest now filled with water and sediments from a body of water. IMO fenn precautions doesn’t dictate to me, water placement. it seems he wanted the chest in as best of conditions as possible.

          food for thought…

          • Replace the word “plus” with ” in addition to ” then read the statement.
            I don’t believe that the chest weighs anymore than it did when he put it there. IMO of course.

          • eagles,
            Why would you want to replace words he has stated with others.
            You can find yourself in no mans land pretty quick when you do that.
            In addition to putting other words coming from his mouth you are distorting what he actually said.
            Good luck with that.

          • Sorry for the delay in responding. I’m still having problems accessing this site.
            I mearly inserted a different meaning to the word “plus ” . Since everything f says is open for interpretation I didn’t think it would be an issue. I still don’t believe that the chest is any heavier then the day he put it there.
            IMO OF COURSE

          • I’m chewing on it Seeker,
            It’s a little dry, my saliva glands haven’t kicked in yet.
            I’m leaning 60/40 it’s in water after reviewing most of the past statements by Forrest.

            Mr Fenn, in relation to the final resting place of the chest, which of the 4 natural elements (Earth, Wind, Water, Fire) would mostly compromise it resting? ~ James

            “I know what the question is. I don’t think earth can hurt it, under the right conditions wind might affect it, it’s probably already wet, and look at what fire did to the twin towers. Nature makes her own rules, James, so I try to not be absolute when talking about her.”

            So it appears water would not compromise it as much as wind MIGHT.

            I mentioned this the other day & got no response.
            Is it safe to say the lid of the chest weighs around 5 pounds or more.
            It is simple math 10x10x5 @ 20 pounds.
            Lets say the flow of the water is light & is coming from the direction of the back of the chest where the hinges are.
            Tell me how a 5-6 pound lid is going to open?

          • Jake,
            I wrote out an explanation but an error popped up… most like due to hits on the block or maybe Goofy getting tired of my posts. lol. He never likes it when I make fun of his advantage in the chase… weegeemagebe mouse pad.
            JK, I’m just mad my crazy magic 8 ball is broken.
            I think this sums it up well in this little video; Moving Rocks – YouTube

          • Seeker,
            I have seen the video & known about the moving rocks for years.
            The theory is pretty good to explain why they move.
            I think the point of that question starts right at the beginning.
            “I know what the question is.”
            He knows what the question is about & is not going to give any useful info in his answer.
            MIGHT is not absolute.
            No hint here.
            The moving rocks will turn into sand & dirt before I use this statement as anything useful in finding the chest.

            Goofy, you sure this is not DOS attack?

          • Jake it’s not a DOS attack, we can handle those almost immediately. On the other hand, I guess you could call it a DOS attack (the server can’t keep up with the requests) but it’s coming from everywhere. The news outlets are running the story on their websites; every time they cycle the story to their front page the hits go through the roof. Dal has a beefy server for a site like this, but we just don’t have the horsepower to handle the kind of traffic we are getting.

            If Drudge runs the story we can just turn out the lights and go home until the deluge is over.

          • Thanks Goofy,
            I did not see it on drudge report yet, but will be there eventually.
            We will just have to be patient & be willing to accept a lot more competition.
            See what SEO can do for you!
            I think the Googlebot is going crazy right now.

          • Jake,
            The point was to the 5lb unlocked lid you mentioned. It doesn’t take a whole lot of conditions of weather, Nevertheless moving water, to disturb anything. Some of those rocks weight more than 100lbs.

            Moving water is never constant… even on a sunny day, a storm 10 miles away can turn a trickling creek or a small waterfall into a raging river or a torrent rushing wall of water.

            You said; “I think the point of that question starts right at the beginning.
            “I know what the question is.”
            He knows what the question is about & is not going to give any useful info in his answer.”

            I agree… I’ll refer back to the “useless clues debate” I personally don’t believe fenn will give out anything that will help get anyone closer… However, he does give pause for thought. He invites us to “think”

          • Jake – I know you know this post from me is coming,…but:

            Seeker wrote:

            “Humidity, rain, snow, fog etc. can easily cause moisture making anything wet … even if covered.”

            If the bronze chest is cached below ground,…even if it is wrapped in something (like the trappers used to do),…and a flat rock is at the top of the cache,…sitting flush to the ground,…snow melt and ground water (from the nearby Spring Creek at my spot) would make it wet in February.

            I think it was melanie that posted a pic of a snowmobile wipe out near my spot,…with deep snow,…and I have seen some doozies thereabouts also. If the bronze chest is underground,…my guess is he DID wrap it like the trappers did (use your imagination,…or look up

          • Ah, E*
            We are not talking about the original statement by Forrest in Feb.
            We are talking about the new one today on Jenny’s site.
            I have been following the weather, humidity, rainfall, river flow, you name it in Montana & Wyoming for months now & it’s been pretty dry in most areas.

          • Jake – You wrote:

            “So it appears water would not compromise it as much as wind MIGHT.”

            About that wind affecting the bronze chest,…remember that post ff did about being in a wind storm on a road with a friend and a downed tree blocked their way? They had to use chains to remove it.

            I can say that in my spot area there is a BIG downed tree laying diagonally across a clearing,…which has never moved in more than three years. But if a heavy tree like that with sharp branches fell in ANOTHER clearing,…directly on the flat rock that caps the treasure cache,…the bronze chest location would be compromised IMO.

            And I already referred the book, “The Big Burn”,…about the 1910 fire in the Northwest. Fire WOULD affect a cached Bronze Chest,…after reading that book IMO.

          • Jake – I should have worded that differently. I wrote:

            “…sitting flush to the ground,…snow melt and ground water (from the nearby Spring Creek at my spot)…”

            And I ended that with “in February”. I meant that GROUND WATER from the water table and the nearby Spring Creek would keep my spot “wet” even in the hottest months of summmer (like now).

          • Seeker – You wrote about Goofy:

            “He never likes it when I make fun of his advantage in the chase… weegeemagebe mouse pad.
            JK, I’m just mad my crazy magic 8 ball is broken.”

            I will put up my Gypsy’s Crystal Ball against your two devices anytime. 😉

  57. His original plan was to go off into the desert with the chest, and die. The original idea was that we just take the chest and let him rest in peace. When he was asked if the location was changed from that he said no. Now we find out that the chest is wet, in every season. I am having trouble visualizing this.
    Are we to hypothesize that he found a place in the desert, in the mountains, behind a water fall, under a ledge, down a canyon, up a draw with water high, in the wood, with sage, juniper, pine and wild life, where he would lay down his body, and always be wet?

    • Michael,

      You need to learn what the definition of a desert means….it isn’t just a big sand box.

    • Michael H,
      “His original plan was to go off into the desert with the chest”
      I never read or heard “desert” in any of Forrest’s statements.
      Could you please post a link to this statement.

      • I recall the statement from early interviews. The Rocky mountains have a combination of ecosystems that include desert, plains, montain, and valley systems.
        I live in New Mexico, which is not a sand box, has a wide variety of ecology. I have lived in Montana which has desert areas also. But, I wasn’t trying to make a point. I am trying to visualize an area that would have these multiple possible environments converging at a single point, and be wet.

        • Thanks Michael,
          You have given a lot of information I already have knowledge of but is good for those that don’t.
          I know you were there searching for Randy & shows your selfless attitude.

          I will have to take that “desert” statement as opinion & not a fact unless you or someone else can prove otherwise.
          Just don’t want others to be misled.

    • With the exception of “Behind a waterfall” – You just pretty well described my search area.


  58. IMO… He knows it’s wet because ground moisture can not escape the tarry scant sarcophagus it is hidden under.

  59. I looked up wet and found there are numerical theories CHALDEAN AND PYTHAGOREAN! The first uses the number 6 and the second number 3! It is all fascinating and the word wet in Spanish is MOJADO , the French definition is HUMIDE!!! Of course Mr. F. said a redneck from Texas could solve it so I believe it is so simple it is difficult and right there in front of us. Many of my solves turn out to be where an 80 year old man could not go, or the above 5000 ft does not come into play,but; I have a new and very promising blaze and below the home of brown that fits. I have changed my state to another and it makes sense. Everything is coming together and just research research. Tea with Olga has a new meaning and it leads me as the blaze. It is quite fascinating and could change the game. I do believe for once the blaze is clear and a beacon for all to follow….. Will have to move forward and work harder and let it guide me. Am ready for more botg when have another solve need more pure true time to devote to hunt. So close yet so far. Truly feel for Randy’s family and friends and have prayers and healing thoughts Miss Linda and the family. So senseless and it will take time for healing and lots of love from the searchers and all bloggers!!! See you all in the funny papers guys and fellow pirates.good Luck and be safe….. Ms. Girl

  60. Even in a desert, moisture collects under objects as they change temperature from night to day. IMO the clues do not mean that the TC is submerged. Sealing the glass containers which hold FF’s autobiography in each of the bronze jars as well as the jar in the TC give credance to the concept of FF expecting daily condensation moisture in the chest contents. Physics dictates this. I would not advise anyone to change their solve as a result of today’s clue.

  61. In the July 29th 2016 WW,…

    This comment sparked a thought about cathodic reaction or electro-chemical reactivity of gold and bronze together in an electrolytic solution. The ph of the “wet” solution, in order for it to not react would need to be that of distilled water. Am I wrong in thinking it could cause the bronze to degrade if it is submerged?

    Can anyone help me clarify if my thinking is wrong?

    • Question – Did he highlight New Mexico as a hint. or just because he lives in NM and knows the weather there?

      Third time in two/three months that he has used “mud” in a post!! Wonder why?

      Good luck to all searchers and TRY to STAY SAFE


      • Yea JD,
        I have noticed the word “mud” used a few as well.
        I was going to post this back then, but I think this is a better time to know “mud” is actually “dum” IMO.

        • Jake and JD – Well, Astree and I had a GREAT discussion about this post at Jenny’s,…and mud,…but that whole thread seems to have disappeared over there:

          Would you want the person that finds your treasure to admire the place where it rests? Andrew
          Well Andrew, I’m not sure “admire” is the right word but if we twist it a little maybe we can make it work. The word means approval or high regard. So it works. I sure feel that way or I would not have hidden it there. I like the way you think Andrew. f


          OK,…’ad-mire’,…’add-mire’,….’add mud’!:

          verb: mire; 3rd person present: mires; past tense: mired; past participle: mired; gerund or present participle: miring

          cause to become stuck in mud.
          “sometimes a heavy truck gets mired down”
          synonyms: bog down, sink (down)
          “Frank’s horse got mired in a bog”

          And then ff wrote above:

          “The word means approval or high regard.”

          And this from eaglesbound:

          IMO, the hint here is the “mountain roads are washing downhill “.

          IMO: Since ff likes to “walk up the side of a hill and look back down”,…and the finder may have “high regard” for the place where it rests (doing the “look quickly down” thing from above),…then maybe he is saying that the bronze chest is AWAY from harms way,…from rushing muddy waters,…which it is in my “pyramid” hidey spot. My “frightening hoB creek” I posted a picture of previously,…can be “heavy loads and water high” for sure during Spring Runoff and after a heavy thunderstorm.

          p.s. Jamie – I am fine on the cohesiveness angles at my spot also,…but thank you. 🙂

          • Jake and JD – Welcome to fun with Google Translate!:


            ‘”mud aware” > ‘muda ware’ > ‘waste crack’

            Maybe ff is saying NOT to look for the bronze chest in a crevice (for those that gave up on the cave idea today).

            I miss Astree. 🙁

            We use to play that game right of ff’s blog,…all the time.

          • It’s funny how people think your stupid.
            Yea, OK, I’ll click on that email Hahahaha.
            You gals & guys have a good night.
            I need to get some food for real thought.

          • Jake – It’s not an email,…it is my Google Translate translation,…go you can use it for other word games ff plays (which he does,…trust me,…I have been playing them for a REALLY long time!)

            ALL IMO. 🙂

          • Jake and JD – But thank you for the reminder, Forrest,…because driving out that fire road,…to get to Potamogeton Park,…would be a NIGHTMARE in a heavy thunderstorm. And Cub Creek would not be fordable,…to try to get to my spot from the other direction.

          • E*

            Not sure why you address your posts to Jake and I. We are searching in different places, different states for the most part.

            Jake and I have very little in common, so why group us together?

            Just curious.

            – – – – – – – – –

            I checked the weather in my area – NOT West Yellowstone – average temps = 82 – Most days sunny or at most partly cloudy.


          • JD – Because you and Jake were having a discussion about MUD and I interjected,…and continued it. It wasn’t anything to do with your solve locations. 🙂

      • JD – Just checked the 10-Day weather for West Yellowstone,…no thunderstorms in the forecast. But I HAVE been at Campfire Lodge during a 3 HOUR thunderstorm at the end of July 2013,…and my creek turned brown and fast probably VERY dangerous at elevations up in the drainage where my spot is.

        That is when I texted a photo of the trail head sign to ff that said:

        “Lightning and Cutthroats and Grizzes, Oh My!”

        I’m going to miss the Rainbows,…now that they have the FISH BARRIER there! 🙁

        • JD – And I posted the weather response above to you,…because you wrote this post at the top of this thread:

          Question – Did he highlight New Mexico as a hint. or just because he lives in NM and knows the weather there?

    • It’s monsoon season in New Mexico and Arizona, from what I understand July-September can be very dangerous with rain, flash flooding and lightning. I am “not” a weather dude this is basic info obtained from Google,,, My interest I was once caught in a flash flood hunting near El Paso TX (Skeeered the shizzzz out of me).,,,No friggin joke folks plan for this kind of thing if searching this time of year it can happen…be careful…..


  62. Regarding ff’s frequent use of the word “mud”. If you look back at the A Ladies Sewing Kit post from July 2014, there’s a picture of the needle in a mud ball. Here is a quote from ff in that post: “The Indian woman mixed her leafy tool in a blob of mud and left only an inch of its needle nose exposed. It was protected from the aggressive jaws of hungry vermin.” I often wondered if he hid the treasure in a similar manner. In the same story, he talks about the needle coming from a leaf of agave of yucca (which Dal mentioned is the state flower of New Mexico.)

  63. Just brain storming here:
    Heavy loads=lodo=mud…heavy mud=clay…clay is used for pottery…
    …east of Picuris Peak is the Mica Mine used for the micaceous pottery…
    Northeast of there is Pot Creek Cultural Site…where they might have got the mud clay for the pots.
    It’s off the high road to Taos 518 north of Penasco.

    It looks like a nice place to learn about local history.
    There may be a near by creek that could be searched without breaking the law.

    • One weird coincidence is that above Pot Creek to the east is
      ‘Bear Wallow’ Ridge.
      That makes twice in one week that I have found a place by that name.

      In the distance to the north you can see Wheeler Peak.

  64. OK Colokid,
    Let’s get back to reality here.
    Tomorrow, Weekly Words will be coming out on Jenny’s site & I think it will be a mind blowing experience where he will use words like: maybe, if, probably, might, may, few, several, close, far…

    I will take it over here. Why?
    Because this box is huge!

  65. I find it interesting to read about KSAF and how there wasn’t really that much commercial traffic in and out of Santa Fe and when there was it was mostly to Dallas….In the back of my mind I still wonder about the rental car idea and if he flew to WY via Denver, etc….I’m up early today on the West Coast. Hey, it’s Friday!

  66. I would say this is a significant clue (for some). If you fly over at 100′ AGL (Above Ground Level), you will likely be DOA (Dead On Arrival) because the surrounding mountains will be unavoidable. FF interpretation IMHO, “Turn your aircraft around and save your life!”

    • Yea LMN,
      When I read it this morning, a few things came to mind that didn’t make sense.
      The elevation of the flight is to low & the 5000 MSL is way off & why would you us MSL there anyway unless you want to plow into a mountain. The air speed is low & tells me a small plane. No wind?
      Sounds like a lot of wind to me.

    • LMN – I wrote a little ditty once that if ff didn’t “look quickly down” from his Piper plane,…to see the blaze I think he made on a certain hillside,…that he might have to pull up right quick,…or the “your quest to cease” part would be next! Ridges before and after it,…not too far away,…are 9,500ft and 8,500ft. But then I remembered he flew an F-100D in Vietnam…

      There is a clearing that looks like a rectangular airfield in what would be equivalent to ff’s left temple on my “face” hill. There is a grove of trees in the center that in March/April of 2013 looked JUST LIKE an F-100D parked at that airfield,…from above. It has changed,…but it was fun to think of that area as ff’s final pilot’s destination (since he survived when his plane crashed in Vietnam). I proposed that he buried one of the bronze bells or jars there,…but I can’t remember which one,…or why.

      • LMN – I remembered the solution I came up with for one of the bronze bells that goes with that location above,…but because it had an image of that bronze bell,…and a link to the E.A. Poe story that goes with it,…I guess it went into moderation (so I guess 2 links not 3 sends a post as a Word Press file to spam now ???). Maybe it hasn’t been reviewed yet to post. It was about how the word ff used “knowledge” or “knowleDge” on that bell,…might be making a reference to that F-100D in the rectangular airfield.

        • Part One:

          LMN –

          No matter. Here’s the E.A. Poe story link:

          The great clock has seven faces — one in each of the seven sides of the steeples [[steeple]] — so that it can be readily seen from all quarters.

          OK,…now imagine those “seven faces” surrounding the bronze jar in the next post.

          • LMN – Now imagine finding the bronze bell posted below,…and ringing it,…at Thirteen O’clock,…at my F100-D airfield:

            “Der Teufel!” groaned they, “Dirteen! Dirteen!! — Mein Gott, it is Dirteen o’clock!!”

            Could that be the time to search for the bronze chest at my hidey spot? Because of shadows on the ground then, maybe,…that would reveal something???

            I’m thinking of Einstein’s “imagination” quote now….

          • E* – Dirteen? Add some water high and you’ve got mud.

            BTW, how do you include a picture here in the response box? I’ve got one for you.

          • melanie – I don’t believe you can do that,…unless you use some sort of application to upload it. Iron Will knows how,…but I don’t. Otherwise,…I would post the new and improved shadow photo I took about a month ago,…where I adjusted for parallax,…and don’t look like a big fat rolly-polly Michelin Man (like I did in the one Dal posted for that contest).

          • Hi E*. I was confusing how your posts look here online with how they appear in my inbox. 2 diff’rent tings!

            I had wanted to send you a pic from my last trip up to Axolotl to give you an idea of the lay of the land. Back on the now-closed page, you wrote:

            “DPT – Granted,…if that is Sage Peak (= “wise blaze”?),…on the far left of that picture in the distance,…then THIS could be where ff is standing with the two horses (at the 7800ft lookout):
            decall and melanie – Let me know what you two think. (And thanks again, decall,…for posting that route with the pics you hypothesized!)”

            So, this is in response to that post. This is the 1st time I’ve attempted such a feat, hope this pic comes thru for you:


            The pic is a ground level view from Axolotl’s north end mostly SW to the summit of Boat Mountain. I think it conveys how tight or “close in” the topography is up there. From this vantage point at the lake, your 7800′ “lookout” is SE. The lookout is about 1/2 the distance as from the lake to the summit of Boat Mtn. Based on my pic and my recollection, the area is too tight/constricted to be the wider open space depicted in the picture of ff with the 2 horses shown here:


            But my triangulation could be off. Food for thought. Hope this helps.

          • I knew that was the lake & have felt for a while the treasure is not there.
            I did not read anything. The pic is worth a million words.
            Good luck if anyone thinks it’s there.

          • melanie – Wow! Three links in your post! How long did THAT one stay in moderation?! Just kidding. 🙂

            Thank you for responding to my earlier question here,…about where you thought that picture of ff was taken. Now I am thinking it was taken closer to where the OTHER picture of ff on Lightning was taken (but maybe about 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile closer to Axolotl Lake). That was very helpful for you to triangulate for me,…thank you!

            And thank you for providing a great application to upload photos for us,…I can’t see the little mud puppy in that one, though:


          • E* – Ha! I must’ve slipped under Goofy’s radar or, more likely, he took pity on me and let it go, judging by Jake’s quick response.

            Yes, I think 2 of ff’s pix with Lightning were taken closer to the cabin creek cabin, but not having been on that end of the trail, I’m not sure – just going by the more open/moderate topo info.

            I’m pretty certain there were no axolotls in Axolotl Lake. Too cold too much of the year. I really wonder how that lake got its name? Seems like a pretty far northern locale for Nahuatl words to be applied…what’s with that?

            I think axolotls were only native to a big, high altitude lake complex (waters high? nah) in what’s now Mexico City… that lake system was mostly drained/built over very long ago (starting in pre-Columbian times) and axolotls are now supposed nearly extinct except in captivity.

            That’s very sad.

            I’ve grown fond of their cute faces and “ear feathers” (external gills). BTW, re: that text you dug up connecting the jadeite face mask with axolotls: I think the depiction of the carved “fire brows” is actually a stylized representation of those external gills…look at how stylized Native American motifs are, especially with regard to anything related to water. Water was critically important then (as it should be now), and its life-giving essence was represented in many forms. The axolotl could be such a symbol.

            How all that might relate to the lake….no clue.

        • LMN – Why would ff be interested in stories by E.A. Poe? I think because ff was writing The Poem and designing a treasure hunt,…he may have looked at “The Gold-Bug” by E.A. Poe:

          The decoded message with spaces, punctuation, and capitalization is:

          A good glass in the bishop’s hostel in the devil’s seat
          twenty-one degrees and thirteen minutes northeast and by north
          main branch seventh limb east side
          shoot from the left eye of the death’s-head
          a bee line from the tree through the shot fifty feet out.

          I might need my Giant Ball of String if ff used that decoded message idea near my hidey spot.

    • LMN – This from Ramona at Jenny’s:

      “Hmmm, Searchers have been within 200′ but you cannot do a fly-by at 100′?”

      Here’s the official quote from Dal’s Cheat Sheet:

      “Searchers have been within 200 feet”. Huffpost interview 02/04/15

      Is ff saying in this MW post that someone on Google Earth was the closest (maybe 200′ above the Bronze chest in Satellite View)? Like being 200′ AGL in a plane? Is that view approximately 200′ from the ground,…or is it closer? I’ve asked Jake this before,…but he didn’t know. Maybe The Wolf will grace us with his presence and answer me,…since he just posted at Jenny’s. I hope so.

      • E, Sorry that I don’t blog much so I am just seeing your messages. As for the Ramona comment, passing 200′ on the ground is totally different than flying the same distance in the air, if you want to survive. Like comparing apples to oranges. Regarding your Google Earth issue, if you zoom in and out the “land distance measurement” increments change. I really don’t think the ff comments in HuffPo had anything to do with an aerial measurement, because that simply would not be accurate. However, IMHO he may have made a land distance measurement, likely based on a Google Earth estimation when someone specifically mentioned, “____________.”

  67. OH SHOOT!!!!
    Sorry Goofy – I inadvertently included 3 links in that last post response to E*. My Bad! Will be more careful next time.

  68. E* hello! glad it is I am that you have been welcomed back to hod. Your sage advice is the best, but you better get your bells an jars correct if you plan to ski with me down Blaze mountain in ‘the movie’ where Brutus stars helping me recover the treasure chest:-). Just saying hello to you since I no longer frequent the blogs. Have to board a flight now.

  69. Melanie,

    7800′ lookout? If you can elaborate, I may have some contribution to this thought, although it doesn’t appear to be in you search area. I can’t tell if it’s relevant or not. I’ve been a little behind on HOD.


    • Hi Washaufizzi. Look above at my response to E* timed August 6, 2016 at 4:14 pm. That should give you the gist of the whys and wherefores, along with links to pertinent topos/maps.

      The 7800′ lookout was indeed just beyond my search area, but I was in its proximity. Do you have some thoughts on that you’d like to discuss? I’m all ears (not the feathered gills kind tho – ha!).

  70. New post on Jenny’s site, in reference to Mr. Fenn’s quote from Mark Twain, the meaning can be found in a Forbes Magazine article from January 8, 2013. “Three Ways Over Confidence Can Make A Fool Of You” is just the right nudge Mr. Fenn is giving all of us to not overthink things nor get too cocky nor to discredit anything plausible!!! Sometimes we do not know what we think we know!!! Still in the chase, see you in the funny papers!!! MS GIRL

    • How can you get the meaning from something Twain quoted when it was never quoted by Twain? Like you said, “Sometimes we do not know what we think we know.”
      The “funny papers” would be a closer example.(Encyclopedia of Humor by Henry Wheeler Shaw (aka Josh Billings) 1874) and even he did not say those words. ” I honestly beleave it iz better tew know nothing than two know what ain’t so”.

      Mark Twain- “Faith is believing what you know ain’t so”.

      I think Mr. Shaw went to the Seeker School of Grammar and Fine Arts.

      • Thanks Charlie, you got what I was saying. The chase is so simple and actual that it is complicated!!! Fenn said he wrote it so a Redneck from Texas with lots of children could get in his pickup with shovels in the back and follow the clues and go find it. That is a short version of Mr. F’s quote. Also, did everyone know Mr. F said he drove a Sedan and parked it and hid the treasure in two trips!!! He has actually told what kind of vehicle. His words are a huge map with hints from the book and that is the way I am working it now. He truly uses phrases from Jenny Kile’s Mysterious Writings to give us all clues and hints!! We may not understand them at first but they are there. I referenced this in another blog but now I am referencing it here: A FEN is a marshy mud bog and he has used mud several times in Jenny Kile’s blog recently! I have a solve for that and it is within the 8.5 miles from Santa Fe!! Hope all of us just see things more clearly lately and see what is right there in front of us!!! I know a lot of sayings that are attributed to someone when it was actually said by someone else. My real name is Judy and Carey Grant did not say” Judy Judy Judy”! It is in a since sort of a mistaken identity, is that another of Mr. Fenn’s devices for hiding his clues in plain site? Like flutterby and butterfly, or maybe even plane and plain? Just thought I would mention that. Now listen all and hear me good, Still in the Chase….. Ms. Girl

        • MS. Girl… Just suggestions and tak’em for what it worth. “Fenn said he wrote it so a Redneck from Texas with lots of children could get in his pickup with shovels in the back and follow the clues and go find it.”
          I purty sure there were no mention of shovels in this comment.

          “A FEN is a marshy mud bog and he has used mud several times in Jenny Kile’s blog recently! I have a solve for that and it is within the 8.5 miles from Santa Fe!!”
          The more accurate mileage is “more than”
          And I hope this helps as well, a sedan is simply a passenger vehicle, a 4 door 4×4 jeep Grand Cherokee, is technically a sedan.
          Definition of sedan; “an enclosed automobile for four or more people, having two or four doors.”

    • Those are interesting pdenver. That is not a Twain quote, I wonder if Fenn knows that? There is one from Tolstoy kind of like it.

      “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” –Leo Tolstoy

      And one of my favorites:
      The greatest obstacle to discovering the truth is being convinced you already know it.

      • Hey Goof – I was intrigued by your post and so I looked it up. The quote is often attributed to Twain, but I also see where people have said that nowhere can it be found that Twain actually said that or wrote it down. Interesting indeed. By the way, did you know that the word twain means two? I wonder if that has anything to do with anything???

    • “If in 500 years all a person has is the poem, and no back story: they don’t know “in the rocky mountains north of santa fe” or that there are 9 clues etc. Could a person reasonably just use the words in the poem and find your treasure chest? Nope.”

      What exactly is the answer referring to? We have seen other questions like this one, which has give more than one option of response. The main elimination… imo… is the knowledge of the poem containing 9 clues. Which also eliminated, the end of my rainbow and the treasure… while this is part of the book, it was intended for the intro to the poem.

      “So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to he end of my rainbow and the treasure : ”

      A colon instead of a semicolon may be used between independent clauses when the second sentence explains, illustrates, paraphrases, or expands on the first sentence. Example: He got what he worked for: he really earned that promotion.

      The colon usage expands the needed information for the poem.
      If the knowledge of nine clues were not told from the start… the blogs would be very boring. We all agree there are 9 clues… we just don’t agree what they are or how to read them. But that is a needed piece of information.

      • Hi Seeker. That’s an interesting distillation. I guess I had always taken for granted there were 9 clues just because FF said so. But, to your point, I now see that we have to KNOW there are 9, not 8 or 10, clues and that without that information FF thinks the poem cannot be solved.

        Of course, this is conjecture, but I get your perspective. Thanks.

        • Conjecture is a good word with the limited information we have… yet if we take the information we do have such as… fenn thoughts when writing the poem of 100, 1000 plus years down the road, and fenn deliberately choosing the avenue of a poem to present the clues etc. … it needed an intro of sort to explain it.
          Another words; if he removed the poem from the book, that sentence / intro is useless in a book of memoirs.
          And now, ‘possibly’ with out the intro / sentence / information [ call it what ya will ] we will be missing something he feels might be important to the poem. The 500 year mark is ~imo ~the same as the 3009 comment… the Rockies are still moving and will be more difficult to find in 3009… but that doesn’t make it impossible… or “Nope”

          The other thing is “rainbow”… why add it? especially adding it in front of the ‘treasure’.
          Tight focus of a word that is key? Yep, it’s all conjuncture if we don’t have all he information… in this question, what information do we know as fact, that the question eliminated?

          • Seeker: “in this question, what information do we know as fact, that the question eliminated?” Are you referring to your rainbow question and why add it?
            Or, to Nope’s initial question?

  71. This is my take on today’s featured Question on MW’s.
    I’m gonna say this statement trumps his earlier ones when it comes to the poem.
    Only makes sense seeing this is the latest statement.

    One thing that comes to mind is that the treasure will not be in the same place in 500 years.
    Maybe someone has sent him the perfect solve & he knows it will be found soon or nature will do what she does & move it away from the original hidey spot in 500 years. The later doesn’t go along with looking 1,000 years down the road.
    The poem is in English & eliminates many countries although English may not be the primary language in those places 500 years down the road.

    The bottom line as I see it is the word “reasonably” gives Forrest an “out” to answer the question the way he did.
    Take that word out of the question & we probably wouldn’t get a straightforward answer if one at all.

    • My question is… when the treasure was hidden, did you follow the clues just like they are mentioned in the poem or did you just go to where you wanted to hide it, knowing that the poem would lead someone there? Does that make sense? ~Tim
      I knew from the beginning where to hide the treasure. It wasn’t until later that the clues were provided to find that spot. I don’t know “…that the poem will lead someone there,” as you asked, but the poem does provide everyone with that opportunity. f

    • pieces, I believe that it’s reasonable to all of us who are seriously searching, whether it’s working on solving the poem, or actually traveling toward (what we think is) the search area.

      Of course, the word “reasonable” is quite subjective. What’s
      reasonable to one person might seem quite unreasonable to
      someone else.

      All parts of this treasure hunt are optional. Nobody is being
      FORCED to participate. So the decision regarding whether
      it’s reasonable that someone will find the treasures (or the
      singular treasure) is an individual decision that should be made
      by each individual considering whether to get involved.

      I strongly suggest that nobody puts BOTG without having first solved the poem beyond reasonable (to that person) doubt: ALL
      parts of the solve must be in agreement with ALL the other
      parts, or else it is not a reasonably good solve! This is despite
      all the benefits of heading into the mountains regardless of the
      solve’s quality. I am convinced that the folks that have been on
      a dozen or more search trips have enjoyed the experience each
      time, even if the TC wasn’t found.

      The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

      Good luck to all searchers. Please be safe, which includes
      being prepared for sudden changes in the weather.

  72. I’ll tell you what bugs me about it Charlie.
    Wendell tossed that quote there on the 2nd of this month on this page & then Forrest posted it on Mysterious Writings site on the 9th.
    Doesn’t anyone else think this is strange?

    Posted on August 9, 2016 by Jenny Kile
    the thrill of the chase forrest fennSurprise words from Forrest:
    “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.” ~Mark Twain
    wendelltherealtor on August 2, 2016 at 4:03 pm said:
    This quote from Mark Twain is a good thing to keep in mind for all searchers, far and wide! ‘It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so’.

    • Jake;

      My guess (and my guess is as good {or bad} as anyone’s because I DO NOT KNOW) is that Forrest read the quote, and thought it appropriate to use to a different or wider audience.

      I doubt that it has a hidden meaning – using Wendell’s post as “food for thought” – what’s wrong with that?.

      Just my opinion.


          • Gentlemen, Providing the wrong attribution on this particular quote – proves – the point of the quote. IMHO, because it was originally shared as “fact” it was too much for ff to resist reposting it and making a dual-point out of the whole thing. That seems pretty Fennish to me. Although, it may be an observation of “the chase” that ff has developed based on the variety of things he reads, IMHO it provides no additional information. Good for a chuckle out of the few that caught this subtle posting play. (You two gentlemen are fun to follow as you figure it all out.)

          • You could be right LMN,
            But why post it again by the man?
            He could post all sorts of quotes we have wrong but this one is alone.
            There is a reason why that I can’t grasp.
            But the facts remain the same.
            I guess we will never know.

        • Jake,

          Could it be that, like the tricky fox of American Indian folklore, that FF sometimes enjoys keeping the charade going…..just to see where it leads. FF has said that he will intentionally misspell or say things wrong, just to see if folks even pick up on it. Possible? It seems the more we think…..the more we become aware of how little we really know.. My own thoughts and ramblings anyway!


          • Sleepy: “FF has said that he will intentionally misspell or say things wrong”
            I am not sure where you get your quotes from.
            I am sure that is not what he said.

  73. Mark Twain was a humorist. A humorist is a joker.
    Someone just got served a joker to go with their four cards?

    • When I asked how she liked New Mexico she said, “There’s a sky,” and she wasn’t kidding. At home she never thought to look up. She was thrilled when I showed her a cow. f

      I do not see a connection between the first two sentences,
      and the last sentence.

      One definition of “cow” is to intimidate – “She was thrilled when I showed her intimidation”??? (sic) Makes no sense.

      This one has me stumped.


      • JDA,

        I believe what Forrest might be implying in this most current WW is that many of us fail to notice the beauty in those simple things that surround us in our life because we are so focus on our daily tasks.

        Forrest Fenn says:
        March 24, 2016 at 3:56 pm

        A hypothetical example of a “what if” might be, what if I was looking so far ahead that I neglected to notice what was beside me.


      • JDA, people who have never been out of a big city like NY City often don’t know what a cow is when they first see one. I met a girl once who married and moved, leaving the big city for the first time in her life. She thought a cow, lacking any reference she was familiar with, was a female horse (she’d seen plenty of race track adds).

        And city lights block the stars to the point that you can’t see the Milky Way. It’s not that she’d never looked up, it’s that from Manhattan the starlight is blocked out enough that the true beauty can’t be seen. So people don’t star gaze like, say, the early Americans or those today who view through light pollution.

      • Manhattan could be a connection to Eric Sloane who painted the clouds in New Mexico. Cows could be Cowles, New Mexico near the north end of Rt63 that takes you north through the Pecos Wilderness, along the Pecos River, which is in Forrest’s backyard and has been his playground for 45 years. Same river in the picture of him fly-fishing at a special spot with his granddaughter Lucca page 38 in TFTW. This was the turn-off to the trailheads and campgrounds where I took Great Big Story crew to go to Cave Creek…maybe the treasure chest is actually where I wanted to search that day, only it got late and rained so we had to end it.

      • Forrest’s reply looks like a hint (supporting a correct

        Just my opinion, folks. Yours may differ.

  74. Isn’t there a drawing in the book, TTOTC, with Forrest looking up at the stars?
    Just looked, yes.
    Page 41.
    Chapter titled “Surviving Myself”.
    The picture is of Forrest sitting on a tombstone in a cemetery looking up at the night sky.

    • Buckeye Bob,

      Good point in bringing up the cemetery and Forrest looking “up” possibly at the stars. A good follow up question may be why are cemeteries not lit at night?

      “A kid really has time to think in a cemetery” (paraphrased).


    • “I thought it was the most atrocious thing that I’d ever done. But in the back of my mind I told myself if I’m sorry tomorrow I can go back and get the treasure chest.”

    “Somethings Hidden Go and FIND it”
    Find= to create.
    I’d bet a pile of nickles on it. Actually I think I just did 😉

    IMO. I’ll save the trouble of looking it up. Haha. He’s a beast with silly distracting word games….all just my opinion on what I found.

    sky (n.)
    c. 1200, “a cloud,” from Old Norse sky “cloud,” from Proto-Germanic *skeujam “cloud, cloud cover” (source also of Old English sceo, Old Saxon scio “cloud, region of the clouds, sky;” Old High German scuwo, Old English scua, Old Norse skuggi “shadow;” Gothic skuggwa “mirror”), from PIE root *(s)keu- “to cover, conceal” (see hide (n.1)).

    cow (v.)
    “intimidate,” c. 1600, probably from Old Norse kuga “oppress,” which is of unknown origin, but perhaps having something to do with cow (n.) on the notion of easily herded.

    Don’t worry F. We HERD ya loud and clear. I think Ms. Ford did too. And your old cow bessie…. or was that Donnie’s mom?

    • * a mirror is like a shadow thats true colors shine through despite lies and oppression. Reminds me of F in the media lately despite a crazy woman lying in media and to police. I’ll tip a Manhattan high and to the sky for a toast to F for taking the high road yet again.

    • Jonsey1, I like that you look up words also. You can learn a lot from them.

      Cloud as in Cloud 9. Root word is clod and means hill. A lump or chunk of earth like clay. Also clod is to be heavy footed. And a dunce or fool, docti.
      In one of Forrests scrapbooks here on Dals site he says his favorite song is blue heaven.
      Sky is also azure which means lapis luzli.
      Another word for cloud 9 is Wallow.
      Now there is an interesting mud puddle that animals roll around in. A depression or pit such as a buffalo wallow. It also means Indulgence:-)

      The cow jumped over the moon. Like the crescent moon.
      I hope some of this helps searchers. It has for me.

      • Ha! You NAILED it on the head! I’ve posted here over the years about my personal “Go Forth” motto and how much I loved the treasure hunt bearing it’s namesake from Levi’s years back…but when I started using it in highschool it was after I wrote a motivational speech for graduation based on living out your dreams and shooting for the moon (Shoot The Moon!) On… guessed it…….it’s been my catch phrase ever since. Maybe Fs too! 🙂

        crescent (n.)
        late 14c., “crescent-shaped ornament,” from Anglo-French cressaunt, from Old French creissant “crescent of the moon” (12c., Modern French croissant), from Latin crescentum (nominative crescens), present participle of crescere “come forth, spring up, grow, thrive, swell, increase in numbers or strength,” from PIE root *ker- (3) “to grow” (source also of Latin Ceres, goddess of agriculture, creare “to bring forth, create, produce;” Greek kouros “boy,” kore “girl;” Armenian serem “bring forth,” serim “be born”). was after English Lit paper I had to write on… guessed it…:)

        • Nice job jonsey1!,
          Lets work this out. Last two pages of the book TTOTC Forrest says he knows his dad is sitting on the edge of a cloud! Forrest I believe wants to join his dad sitting on the edge of a cloud. Cloud means clod, hill. Which is a mass of earth or clay. Look up the word down. The root meaning is hill or sand dune. Down is an important word in the poem.
          The poem goes from parts to all. From separate to together. From division or divide to aggragate, lump , hill, clod or cloud. That’s is what I believe Forrest means by adaptation.

          From a crest, mountain top or crest of the great divide to the crescent moon and clouds of the sky. I know what he is trying to tell us, but where?

          • Also, like your crescent a blaze means to swell or blow up. Just like a lump which is a clod or cloud.

  76. What I get from the comment about the cow on Jenny’s site is this: The poem is not Jersey made–it was written in New Mexico. And we better take the bull by the horns and solve the poem.

  77. I assume grammar and capitalization remains correct, yet “fix up” (not force)the punctuation one could also say “Mark, don’t force the poem to fit your spot”. A copy editor might even fix it up to Mark, don’t force, the poem to fit your spot. As in mark as a verb. Aka Mark the poem to fit (aka “find”/”create”) your spot.

    Poetically speaking a GREAT copy editor might even reduce it down to X Marks the spot.maybe even find the treasure! 🙂 don’t think F used a copy editor though….probably too expensive and not sneaky enough to be his sort of Pony.

    Just IMO

    • Or you could just add “it” on the end for the same literary explanation

      “Don’t force the poem to fit your spot, mark it”

      Market. Market. Market.

      The genius of Fennster Fetchin’….AND a call from a distamd place.

      GASP! Did I say all that on a Saturday afternoon? Talk about a mouthful.

    • Jonsey1;

      From above: “Mark, don’t force the poem to fit your spot”.

      Mark can also mean important Therefore; Important, don’t force the poem to fit your spot. Thank You” (sic) becomes a possibility.


      • JD aka JDA, while I agree that’s a possibility, has Forrest ever used “incorrect” capitalization to make a point before?
        I mean, when he does, we pick it up as an intended thing. And in this case, it would be wrong to capitalize the M, so I don’t see it.

        But I value your opinion like so many others here. So I’m not going to say you’re definitely wrong.

        • The quote from today’s post reads: “Don’t force the poem to fit your spot. Thank you Mark. F

          Sorry, I do not see the Incorrect capitalization. “Mark” as a name (The name to which Forrest is addressing his remark) is capitalized. And if mark = important, and you move Mark to the front of the sentence as Jonsey1 did – It becomes:”Important, Don’t force the poem to fit your spot. Thank You” f (sic)

          Am I not seeing something.


          • I thought the Capital in Mark was correct. A copy editor may move it to the Front of the sentence where it would be capitalized as a verb as well, if adjusting the points/punctuation strictly/ restructuring the elements that prior Lacked structure. That’s only because I tend to think F prefers the lack of more revealing structure.

          • Yes, sorry I didn’t make it more clear.

            You said:
            “Mark can also mean important Therefore; Important, don’t force the poem to fit your spot. Thank You” (sic) becomes a possibility.”

            The capitalization is correct there because “Mark” begins the sentence. But if you shift the words back to what Forrest said, then “Mark” as you mean it here would not be capitalized.

            It would be:
            “Don’t force the poem to fit your spot. Thank you important (thing)”
            Not “Important” with a capital I.

            See what I’m getting at?

    • I think the location is hidden & that’s why no one will stumble upon it.
      “Your destination is small, but its location is huge”

      How could its location be hidden & huge?
      I think the destination is small & hidden…..

      • Jake,
        I like to dissect fenn’s comments as well. But this one seems.. well you know.. straightforwards.
        Your goal / destination is small… within a huge location. { I might add the the clues may refer to a huge area }.
        Where do you see “Huge” with destination?
        Maybe we should ask Emily…

        • Very funny Seeker,
          We know The Count is a real person, I think…
          I don’t see huge with destination, just location.
          I said the destination is small & hidden & yes I can also see the clues being spread out over many miles, maybe even a hundred, but you will have to ask Emily yourself if you can……

      • Yes, hidden is a clue.

        Like Forrest has said before. Paraprase, I never said the chest was buried because I didn’t want to give that as a clue.

        So hidden is a clue then.

        Hide is a very interesting word! Not sure how it all relates, but I have been working on this for a week since I started to LOOK on the bear hide picture. When I looked up hide it meant many interesting things. Like to keep secret, Blind, animal hide and others.

        Many hints to blind are jumping out everywhere to me in the book and what Forrest said today. Vivid means a very intense light. Blinded by the light.

        Has anyone else looked at the solve this way in the past?

        • Today’s post did not use the word Hide or Hidden -he said: “…your special place where you secreted your treasure ” Secreted MAY have a different meaning than HIDE or HIDDEN. Just a thought.


          • I’m sorry – In the answer, Forrest said “…hidden location” – The LOCATION is hidden, but the TC is secreted???? JDA

        • DPT,
          I think hidden has been a hint since the beginning but a vague one at that.
          I try not to put much weight in any of the pics he is in & posts.
          Good luck with many hints to blind in the book.
          Maybe he is just trying to tell people they do not see him.

          • Thanks Jake,

            Some of the pics that hint to blind are teacher with ropes. The cover of TFTW. The international symbol for blind is the cane. Also the first guy in the map flipped upside down on page 99 of TTOTC has sunglasses on.
            Other references he has used is tight focus. Focus meaning eyes
            And lid from the other day. Eyelid. Eyelid is a covering or flap, lid, hat.

            Blindness deals with refractive errors of the lens of the eye.

            Blind literally means ” a halting place” such as a blind alley or a dead end.

            Consider also if you are blind, you are alone in your mind.

            These are just a few of the many references I have found since Forrest helped me see this last week after my rampage on Jennys site. I believe he was responding to me when he said Subterfuge, which also means blind.

            Also, if you are dealt 4 cards and a joker in poker and you play whether you like it or not. That is called the Blind. A forced bet, you have to play!

            Also, a blindage is a trench-hmmm

            All these are things I have learned in the last week, very , very interesting.

            Has anyone else Seen this?

            Look, keep secret(hide), look, halt, answer, know have all taken on different meanings to me now. Is this the what ifs??????

          • DPT,
            I am not sure the ropes were for the blind.
            I think the kids were using the ropes so they would all be together & seen by the teachers.
            Is the cover of TFTW in Braille?
            You know, I’m not going any further with your thought on this.
            I just don’t see it.
            Oops, there it is, I just said it.
            I’m blind to to the blind theory of the blind.
            Good luck with that.

          • HaHa, nice one Jake. I like that. Ya, I don’t know either Jake. I will keep researching the blind. It is interesting that hide, blind and secret all have similar meanings.

            I am always interested in what you say though Jake, because I do suspect you are in the correct area. I believe I found proof in TTOTC. Keep at it Jake, hopefully one of us in the area will find it. Its about Time.

          • I’m glad you take it fun DPT,
            I don’t know what I’m talking about most of the time anyway, if I did, I wouldn’t be here.
            It’s an interesting theory just like most here.
            We all never actually know what the real theory is until it’s found, but in the meantime I would keep your eyes open as well as your mind.
            It’s all good.

        • Also in the teacher with ropes story doesn’t Forrest refer to the touching and don’t touch?

          Teachers with ropes is the blind being led I believe and then to touch would be Braille.

          To touch, Braille. invented by a Frenchman. Dots or bumps also known as night writing I believe?

      • Jake,

        Our destination (the chest) is small (10 x 10 x 5), but its (the chest’s) location (secret place) is huge. If we consider “in there” to be a place that has a boundary and is no place for the meek we may consider that the place that is huge to be a designated wilderness area.


        • On re-reading your post, I am not sure that I agree that “and is no place for the meek”, is part of the wilderness area. To me they are different. JDA

        • L1,
          I look at the huge picture as being in the Rocky’s & the small destination is hidden out of site from the usual hikers & hunters like a very small box canyon about 25′ wide & 200′ long. Well that’s where I’m going anyway.
          My “no place for the meek” goes in order & is about 30 miles (prior) away from where I think the treasure is.
          It’s wilderness area but not designated as such.

          • Jake,

            I agree with your mention of the destination being hidden out of site from the “usual” hikers and hunters. Again I see the words “alone in there” as entering into an area or “place” that has a determinable boundary that can be identified on a “good map” such as a National Park, Forest and or Wilderness. Out of those three mentioned the one that seems the most likely to be a place that is no place for the meek is a wilderness due to its more primitive setting and more likely a place that one will be in solitude.

            Hope I’m making sense.

        • Liter81,

          Do you consider meek to be the wilds of nature in your theory?

          I apologize for not remembering if or what you may have mentioned prior… and to my point… can meek mean nature and say a ghost town in the middle of nowhere, as well as the graveyard of this town… all at the same time?

          That example is to simply ask… can a clue refer to more than one thing, place, even people at the same time?

          • Seeker,

            I consider a place (go back to its definition) as a region, location or area and “in there” may mean a boundary so to me no place for the meek may refer to one entering into a designated wilderness area.

            Quote taken from the Wilderness Act of 1964:

            “A wilderness, in contrast with those areas where man and his own works dominate the landscape, is hereby recognized as an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain.”

            Generally designated wilderness areas are free of any man made structures and or trails and improved roads.

            It is possible that meek could refer to a ghost town and or cemetery, but due to previous hints and or clues from Forrest I personally do not believe that to be what meek in the poem is referring to.


          • Liter81,
            Those were strictly hypothetical… I was wondering, even with your example and definitions, can a clue mean more than one thing / place at the same time and still be a single clue?
            “…where man himself is a visitor who does not remain.”
            Fits my the middle of nowhere [ less civilized areas ] abandoned/ghost town [ ancient or recent ] and I added the spook affect ~ graveyard, for those sheepish among us.

            All ~ I think match what meek could refer to, and still be consider as three locations [ wilderness, town, graveyard, ] and still a single location / place at the same time.
            I’ll take it a step further and say, the location can be considered huge in comparison to the destination, a foot sq.
            The Ant to the mud puddle / ocean.

            Could some of our mistakes be force a clue to be one thing only?
            or as I have asked in the past…
            can more than two or more clues mean a single place?
            Why do I keep seeing one clue one place…

        • L1;

          Two days ago, I posted the following over on “No Place for the Meek.” Here is what I posted:

          When I first started developing my “Solve”, once I had figured out wwwh, the canyon down, NFBTFTW and hoB, I was stumped for a couple of days until I spotted the name of a mountain, the name of a basin, and the name of a creek – all possessing the same word or name – all within a few miles of my hoB. This NAME is a name that the meek would not take pleasure in, although they might get some pleasure out of, IF they were willing to try it.

          I travel about 6 miles from my meek location to my END. About 1/2 mile past my end I enter a wilderness area. My Blaze is in the wilderness area.

          Hope that this helps someone. Good luck to all searchers, and TRY to STAY SAFE JDA

          • Dal,

            Thanks, digging deeper into grammar and definitions has opened up some new thoughts, not to say they are correct but definitely some new ideas.


          • Dal,

            The designated Wilderness being the place that is no place for the meek reminds me of the preface to TFTW where Forrest says there were no park rangers, signs or trails to tells me I couldn’t be there, or his mention that there is no adventure in following a trail.


          • I liked someone’s thought (I don’t remember who posted it) a while back when they pointed out that in the big picture “no place for the meek” could be the home of the brave.

            I like it for a couple of reasons:
            1. In the beginning Canada was not ruled out and the mountains were not necessarily restricted to the Rocky Mountains. So that could have been a clue that we should be looking in the USA…
            2. I had not heard of anyone else arriving at that conclusion and it just seems absolutely like the kind of thing Forrest would write.

            Your interpretation for his latest destination/small…. location/huge comment strikes me as the same kind of logic that I can really see Forrest using…

          • IMO, I think a very probable meaning to “no place for the meek” is just what the popular saying says: “The meek shall inherit the earth”, so HEAVEN is no place for them. I am still working on exactly where this is though because there are quite a lot of places in the Rocky Mountains that a lot of people consider heaven. I am sure Forrest is included in those people too.

  78. Is someone going to find it this year? Don’t count me out—sure would be exciting to see someone find that chest! 🙂

  79. “As I have gone alone in there”
    “Both the treasure and its hidden location”
    Seems to me the place he went alone in there is small & not huge like a wilderness or National Forrest.
    How could you be the only one going in there?
    Even if you were 50 miles away from another person going into the same wilderness or labeled area, you are not alone going in there.
    Out of the silo thinkers need not reply.

    • Jake;

      Due to the circular architecture of the poem, in ones mind, a searcher can make several “laps” around the poem. Lap #1 IN THERE could be a geographic area on a map. Lap #2 could be a wilderness area, lap #3 could be a small grove of pines within that wilderness, and the final lap could place the searcher in your narrow box canyon. I see no conflict regarding the size of “IN THERE” – it varies as you unravel the lines of the poem. Each time “IN THERE” gets smaller in area until the poem tells you EXACTLY where to look for the treasure.

      I hope to prove this crazy theory within the next three weeks.

      Good luck to you, and to all searchers and TRY to STAY SAFE


      • I don’t know JD,
        That’s a lot of laps. I tend to think of the poem as point A to B to C to D to Etc….
        Hey, you may never know, that’s why we get out there to prove our theories wrong.
        Am I right?
        “hidden location”
        Not hidden in a location although we know it is a given.
        Is your location hidden???

        • I agree – point A to B to C etc – I just do it more than once. Once I reach the last clue, I start again A2 to B2 to C2. Sometimes the “definition” of a spot may change, but the location of the spot doesn’t except for the END – which becomes smaller and smaller. Hard to explain until you can see it ALL laid out – then it becomes simple – step-by-step…Point to point…a to b to c etc.

          Yes, the FINAL spot is hidden…in a way.


    • @Jake,
      I believe alone in there is his mind. There are several featured questions and weekly words and phrases in TTOTC that point to alone in there as being his mind.

      And in his mind, he keeps memories, some of which he’s written and shown us through photos and drawings in his memoir.

      The poem is in his memoir. It is where he hints of riches new and old.

      • Mindy,
        That’s an interesting perspective to gone alone in there but just doesn’t make sense to us people in my mind.
        I am never alone in there no matter what we think.
        Are you from Wyoming by any chance?

        • @Jake

          No, not from Wyoming. I was born and raised in FL, but have lived in NM, OK, Washington DC, MD, and IL.

          You aren’t alone in your own mind? Aren’t memories yours alone? Isn’t that one thing, like fingerprints, that vary from person to person? And if your family goes on the same trip and brings home memories, isn’t each family member’s memories different, based on their own perspective?

          And remember, Forrest sits just past midnight, alone with only his thoughts. His memories…

          • No Mindy,
            I am never alone.
            There are advantages & disadvantages to what we live with.
            There are many different perspectives to go through & it’s usually logic that bubbles to the surface.

            One thing that strikes about the poem, books & his thinking is that he wants people to get out into the wilderness & explore. So why would you think that way?
            I think we need to think like him but need to take the chase into the wild.

          • I agree. But I think he wants us to experience of the old ways of doing things too. In my opinion, the poem is interactive. 🙂

  80. dal—-I actually posted the idea about “the home of the brave” (USA) being “no place for the meek”— this had come from the idea that Canada was the “Home of Brown” (Roy Brown–canadian pilot) which Wolf pointed out had been in an article about a year before. So he gets credit for Home of Brown—but I’ll take the credit for “home of the brave” (lol).

    • Joe Sparrow,

      If we go with the Wild and Scenic Rivers as the potential many places WWWH then we could use the North Fork of the Flathead river in Montana which begins at the US/Canadian border.


    • Sorry I forget that you posted that Joe. But this is just the kind of reasoning that makes sense to me. Forrest would need a way within the poem to narrow down the search area from the known world. If we had no book and nothing left of what Forrest has actually told us in the past six years how does the poem narrow down the area that we need to be looking at…
      I personally think that the “big” picture is us understanding how Forrest, within the context of the poem, narrows the search area down from the earth…to the hidey spot…
      and “No home for the meek” is a way that brings us to the USA…now…if this was correct…where does it narrow it down to the rocky mountains?…
      Starting with what we now know…where are these clues in the poem…they must be there…mustn’t they?

      • Dal,

        Within TTOTC Forrest says that his Church is in the mountains and along the river bottoms and also says that the treasure is in the mountains north of Santa Fe, it “should” be easy enough for the average Texan to figure out Rocky Mountains from those two statements.

        Now I am not in the “Poem / Book needs to narrow it down to a single state” camp, I believe if one can correctly figure out what the “many places WWWH” are then you can from there use a process of elimination based on assumed ideas of follow on clues, IE Canyon down and put in.


      • Dal;

        I know that you are thinking 1,000 or 10,000 years down the road so you think that you need something in the poem to direct you to the Rockies, but don’t you think that in the future, they will have a record of all of the materials we have?

        These records will show that Forrest already narrowed it down to the Rocky Mountains, therefore, the poem does not need to do this.

        A definition of in “The Wood” defines a specific area on a map that is within Wyoming. Once you find this word, it will lead you to” In There” of stanza #1, and this leads you to wwwh, and the chase is on to the end.

        This is of course, just MY opinion, and one I hope to prove within the next three weeks.

        Good Hunting and TRY to STAY SAFE – JDA

      • dal— yes I think that is absolutely correct. I saw this very quick film clip that started out beyond Jupiter and moved in quickly past the planets, past the moon, to the earth, through the clouds, to North America, centered on a state like Iowa, zoomed in on a county, then a city, then a street, then a house, then a tree, then a leaf then to a plant cell within the leaf– this happened in a matter of moments and it was fantastic.

        I think you are correct that Forrest’s poem does the same thing, but in a smaller area of earth, and a little more slowly. We finally center on 10 inch by 10 inch box, wet, and just hiding there, ready to found. 🙂

        • Similar to the video, The Power of 10…. I think that was the title. But a direct line from outer space thru a telescope, thru a microscope, is not like following squirrly lines along the surface of a lumpy globe that most seem to be traversing . … But, maybe the clues do line up a like a surveyors line.

          • Suppose Fenn drew a straight line on a map from Santa Fe to the hidey spot… then identified spots along the line that could be used clues?

          • Once you draw a line from Santa Fe to the correct WWH , you know the direction to go. Extend it thru a HOB, etc. This system would use only impersonal (cold) geographic points and not draw on events in his memoirs. There is a strong impulse to connect the clues with the story.

            OK, Now I’m done.

      • Dal,

        You ask the question “…where does it narrow it down to the rocky mountains?…”

        IMO – in the same sentence that brings it to the USA, though perhaps the second time through the poem if we believe that the poem is circular and/or repeats but with different clue answers each time through.

        Shall I tell you my solution to the clue “no place for the meek”? Hmm…but this would also give you the answer to “home of Brown”.

        ~ Wisconsin Mike

        • Wisconsin Mike, I wouldn’t show too many of my
          cards. For all the folks posting here, there may
          be many times that number of “lurkers” with time
          and wherewithal (otherwise known as money) to
          hurry on a trip toward the prize. I am being
          similarly discreet. I have just completed my
          second search trip, and have, as I did on my
          first search trip, learned that the actual terrain
          and features, once you have boots on the
          ground, are a LOT different than what you can
          see on Google Earth.

          The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.
          Good luck on your search. Please stay safe.

        • Goofy,
          I think I see the reason you place this Q&A… as to maybe suggest, we must know the RM’s and maybe the back story as we all the 9 clue etc.
          I think this might be true… if that was what the intent for this post.

          Yet, think about the second part of the question… could a person use the poem to find the chest… ok we have been told the poem holds all the info. but is the poem any good if we don’t ‘go’ two the first two clues [ at least ]? The first clue that is most important to nail down ~ even IF it can be found on a map.

          The more I think about those who were at the First Two Clues and didn’t understand the significance of where they were… seems to imply just being there is not good enough. Something is needed to be know and understood. The question now is, can it be understood in the poem or a must learn of sight.

          There might be another reason… while the poem has the information…we need to do things other than just walk around. Maybe this is why no one “can not get closer…” no one understood or did something needed to be done? Is this what tired and weak means… things needed to do?

          More question than answers.

          • That’s correct Seeker. Fenn seems to be saying we need the background information he has provided for us to have the ability to reasonably solve the poem.

            Seeker you wrote: “seems to imply just being there is not good enough”. I agree, Fenn says we must be wise.

            The question now is, can it be understood in the poem or a must learn of sight. I don’t know if I understand your question. From his girl from India and associated comments he seems to be saying we have to be on location to figure the poem out.

          • Seeker & Goofy,

            Time stamp 34:44


            “if a person reads the poem over and over and was able to decipher the first few clues in the poem they can find the treasure chest, it may not be easy”f

            So if a searcher was “intimately” familiar with the poem and was able to “correctly” decipher the first few clues which could put them somewhere in the vicinity of the “put in” below the home of Brown could this mean that the follow on clues are much easier to identify once in the correct spot and within close proximity of each other?

            I go back to the quote from Forrest:

            “you have to learn where the first clue is, they get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is.”f

            Time stamp 49:50



          • Goofy
            Yes, be on location to figure it out.

            My question is missing a word. “or must learn of ‘on’ site / sight?”
            Another words just knowing where the first clue[s] is / are, doesn’t seem to be enough to move on properly. Little Indy, a boy from Dad’s home down, Mr. Nope, those searcher who were on site all can find the first clue[s] either on paper or in person… but still did understand the “significance”…

            Do we need to see [sight] something on site, or could it be we need to do something on site?
            Why in any of these types of questions can’t anyone go on… without passing all the clues and not know it. IMO there is more to that first clue then just knowing where it is. We might need to know why it is as well.

            PS; sorry for the typing. and yes I was playing with sight to site.. I think we may need to view the clues from the site / sight of the first two clues.

          • After the first clues we must be wise. The ones that solved the first two and went past the others were not wise; apparently.

            adjective: having or showing experience, knowledge, and good judgment.

            verb informal: become alert to or aware of something.

          • liter81,
            Now we’re talking… those quotes you placed seem to imply the first clue is not only very important to know where it is but why it is. Many have been at the first two clues and it didn’t seem to help them just being there[ I’ll add, I’m sure they read the poem many times like the rest of us]… So what is it that is missing?

        • Goofy,

          Yup, you need the backstory that is found within the book, the poem along doesn’t give you this.

          Sort of like this question:

          Someone unfamiliar with your poem receives a message that says “meet me where warm waters halt, somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”. Would they be able to work out where to go? If they can’t, would they need the whole poem, another stanza, or just a line or word to help them on their way? ~Phil Bayman

          There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f


          • I agree Goof that Forrest seems to indicate in that particular Q/A we need more info than the poem alone…but what about his mantra since the beginning that all we need is the poem??

            Which he later added to by saying that a couple other items would aid us in our a good map and a basic knowledge of geography. (this is not a quote)

            So is this just another case of Forrest putting a spin on solving the poem that he happens to feel like giving today regardless of whether it contradicts something he’s said earlier?

          • HA! That’s true Dal. The spin on solving the poem…….The poem says hints, the book says clues, read the book, don’t read the book everything is in the poem, need a map, knowledge of geography, and on and on.

            There are many things I don’t see his perspective on when he answers a question. I feel like an ant looking across a mud puddle.

          • and this…suggesting an understanding of geography could be valuable-

            Mr. Fenn, Is there any level of knowledge of US history that is required to properly interpret the clues in your poem. ~Steve R

            No Steve R,
            The only requirement is that you figure out what the clues mean. But a comprehensive knowledge of geography might help.ff

          • Goofy ~ “There are many things I don’t see his perspective on when he answers a question. I feel like an ant looking across a mud puddle.”

            Is that what we are missing… from what perspective we see what the clues refer to? Is this a travel only solve or can it be a viewing solve from only that one single location and from no other vantage point?

            Sure fenn said we may need to hike several miles to our “solve”… he didn’t mention to or through the clue. Some like to think the clues might circle around from start to finish… maybe the clues come straight at us.

          • Yes Seeker, as with most things in life perspective is everything. Like when I show my teeth to my dogs; I’m smiling, some dogs might think I’m growling.

            We need to understand his perspective when he answers the questions. I like what you said about the clues coming straight at us.

          • So here is where I am headed with this…
            If the poem tells me what continent to look at and what country on that continent and then if it were to narrow it down to a tighter region…Lets say the Rocky Mountains and then a tighter region…lets say 🙂 the Yellowstone region…and we know that a comprehensive knowledge of geography is useful…

            Not geology…not history…but man’s naming and mapping which is geography…then Madison Junction as WWWH makes a lot more sense than any thermal entity since thermal features are formed by the natural forces of the planet…but where the Firehole and Gibbon end and the Madison begins is not an act of nature…it’s and act of choice by humans…geographers…
            Some geographer had to decide that two rivers ended at that place and a new one begins…because all nature did was have a place where two rivers come together…The Madison could just as easily have been the continuation of the Firehole or the Gibbon…
            Geographers gave it a new name and called it a new river…

            Of course this is just an opinion and a not a very good one at that…

          • Dal, your geography lesson is exactly why I don’t like names of places as clues [right or wrong] Geography is simply the study of the planets surface… other sciences fall under this study… but the basic is the surface and yes its inhabitants. None of which really rely on given names. [ those are given for easy references for us {humans} only]

            Like you mentioned “we” gave those locations / rivers names, yet these names have changed over time and names have been added along the way… which name do we use? The most recent [ last 85 years], or the name given by this tribe or that tribe ] last 5000 years], the Spanish or French given names [ last 500 years ] etc. or are we over complicating the clues by using those names to make it simpler for us to understand, and not using the basic comprehensive knowledge of geography?

            When trail blazers went to find passages / routes … did they have names to follow?

          • Goofy,
            To be honest, the “clues coming straight at us” thought, only will work if the two comments about knowing where to start and need to start at the beginning have meaning other than just simply saying ‘get ready, get set, get going…’

            Something is missing about the first clue. Something that just yells, you need to figure it out on site. Sure the poem has all the information, and the poem got many there. But does that mean, what is there is not to be understood? Just simply a place to start?
            My head hurts…

  81. I’m wondering if “vivid” can refer to the place where a searcher should “look ‘quickly’ down”?
    “Have flashlight, will travel”

    • Goof- If you’ve been wise and found the blaze look quickly down. Aka- don’t look a gift horse in the mouth….you might see its smiling….or winking….or whatever. My guess is that Mencken thought he knew the difference, but maybe F knew better.

      I kinda thought maybe F would prefer to have the discussion at a later date when his stories are all that can answer those questions. Maybe he’d rather be around for that bit as well….seems a bit importune to take it then just have a staring contest. Or maybe not. I dunno. What do you think?

    • Geoff, I think we can pretty much ignore FF’s “vivid” comment,
      regarding it providing any help to searchers. But I think you
      are DEFINITELY thinking well, regarding bringing a flashlight.
      I didn’t bring one on my current search trip, but will for sure
      next time. I’m being discreet about why, but don’t mind
      helping (a little bit) fellow searchers, if I can.

      The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

      Please be safe.

  82. All – Just some thoughts this evening after processing the many posts that were generated. When Forrest says that the location is small and the destination is huge, could that possibly refer to little tiny West Yellowstone as being small location? Could it be that it’s small but the most popular gateway to Yellowstone which is huge not just in size but the amount of folks who pass into it every year from West Yellowstone? Just some food for thought.

    Also in regards to the answer Forrest gave today, the word vivid does strike me as a peculiar choice when giving his answer. To me, vivid is referring to something like vivid color. My solve starts with a color and ends with the same color. The color is not the answer to the clues but just so happens to be a part of those two clues. Coincidence or not, I don’t know but it does make me think of the beginning and end of the rainbow. Time will tell.

  83. All,

    In reference to today’ WW’s

    Dear Forrest Fenn,
    If you could only see one of these two things before you pass on what would it be, your special place where you secreted your treasure chest or the chest and it’s contents? I hope my question is not to bold. ~The Count

    The Count,
    Both the treasure and its hidden location are so vivid in my mind that I don’t need to see them with my eyes again. f


    The Following is an excerpt from My War for Me:

    Why do the yellow and purple flowers flourish where no one is there to see? The answer is at last obvious to me. No one has to see what is there. The grass sees and the trees and rushing waters of the spring creek also see. What has made me think that I had to see the beauty that is there in order to confirm its existence?


    • Kinda like; if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?
      I get what you’re saying … how does it help with the poem?

      • In my case, as soon as weather permits, I need to schedule a visit to shoot some photos where the colors (yellow and purple and others) are vivid.
        “Have flashlight, will travel”

      • It’s the most important aspect of the poem. Knowing beyond the definition of the words what is meant. Read the poem and then go and close your eyes and listen to Mr. Fenn read the poem. It’s not what you say it’s how you say it. It’s not what you read it’s how you read it. Emotion is all through the book and the poem. It’s what makes great writers, great poets, great artists, great lovers, and great people. People have figured out the first two clues and gone right past the rest. They did not recognize what was there in front of them or behind them, they simply didn’t feel it. ” I did not take a tangent off the Blaze” “save your best smile for when you raise the lid” Be careful, be aware, etc. Get off the emotionless texting machines and into the outdoors, roll over a log, Tie your flies creek side, touch the painting, smell and taste the spices, get your pants dirty, listen to a waterfall or a babbling brook. Your effort will be worth the cold. Open the door for her, give her a caring glance, compassion for all living things. No time spent in thought is wasted. Yes there are precise, numerical and historic directions but those won’t take you to the finish line. Imagination AND knowledge. There are some very smart people on here and they are just as likely to walk past a clue as I am. The only “A” I ever got in school was a 91 on my IQ test and I’m proud of that. The emotion I felt that day was probably the same as when my nephews graduated with honors sigma cum laude with dual degrees from major institutions. Mensa is just an easy to spell five letter word, IMO, and this kind of tangent I’m on here is filled with emotion. Dual meanings, hidden meanings, blah, blah blah, go listen to Mr. Fenn read the poem. I could write a whole book on just the emotions that he’s sharing. When you see a sunset is it just a sunset? No way, it’s a scene that words can’t describe, it can only be felt. And one more point, they aren’t just yellow and purple flowers, they’re beautiful living creations. And the reason Mr. Fenn doesn’t need to see them with his eyes is because he has them in his heart and that emotion is much more vivid than just visual, it is perfectly etched in his memory. I can still smell my first whiff of “mud” from when I was three with my father. I apologize for getting carried away, I’ll be quiet now.

  84. Hmmmm. Home of Brown? Canada? Buster Brown? Charlie Brown? Brown trout? These are all very acep table conclusions for my brother, who works for Federal Express. But according to him “home of Brown” cannot in any way refer to UPS.

    • My latest interp: “Brown” symbolizes the federal Dept. of Interior, (in Wikipedia a frilly description), and ‘below’ its Secretary, the Forest Service was ‘put in’ its administration.

      Just the shield, and sort of like its very subject, (which is ‘dirt’ = land = geology, earth, ground), is brown. Each dept and bureau under Secr. of Interior has its own unique shield design (on letterhead) but all in common have a brown border and a brown buffalo depicted.

      The Dept shield and all its heritage shields are an arrowhead profile.

      Various Services and Bureaus personnel in the field wear brown colored uniforms or hats.

      The Forest Service (where forest fire fighters work, and die), was ‘put in below the home of Brown,’ or Dept. of Interior.

      IMI – in my imagination. Seek safely.

    • I once was considering “Brown” as being UPS, because I had
      seen TV commercials that asked “What can Brown do for you?”.
      But the original location of the company, as well as branch
      locations near my “take it in the canyon down” didn’t seem to
      fit, so I decided that the Brown in the poem doesn’t relate to

  85. Since someone above brought up little girl fro India again I remembered something I found.

    Searchers, have you noticed only the little girls have an L on their shirts in the school picture of TTOTC. Some are photoshopped on as well to make sure all the girls have an L.


    • Lanier School L. Laundry done separate boys got dirtier and used more bleach so girls got the L? There in Texas was the first ever “washateria” also. (Public coin laundrOmat.) I have a hunch Skippy may have gotten his old motor there that he tried to get off the ground. An in inch counts, right? It made a difference for Frosty….and Horses feet, right?

      • When they gave frosty an inch he thought he became a ruler. That’s a foot, right? Forrest taught me that when he told me what he learned from his blacksmith friend while he marvelled at the flames. He was making a horse shoe. For a horses foot. Where’s JDA and his circles….he can take it awl from here

        • Haha, that’s all good jonsey.

          But seriously, there are L’s that have been drawn onto the girls shirts only. Why would Forrest do that?

          On page 10 the little girl takes Forrest to the exact spot.

          What’s with the little girl?

          And doll drawings in map page 99?

          • Really because they marked the shirts to know which went in the girls changing room and which to the boys. Marking tags way more was difficult to find the mark in sorting. The L was a bold mark and used appropriately for “lanier” school. There wasn’t excess money to spend on custom shirts so permanent markers made sense. The boys laundry used extra bleach and tended to be dirtier so the girls got the ones with marks. Would have been one of the first schools ever to have access to electric machines too and nice advertising for the washateria and school as it made national headlines being a pioneer in the business. That is the exact area and time it opened up so I feel it makes sense and only My 2 cents worth. Could be a conspiracy though…..

          • DPT,
            If & a BIG IF he did that.
            It would be intentional & if you did your research correctly, you would know that nothing is deliberately placed in the books to help searchers.
            Key word “deliberately”

          • As far as page 10 and the girl….again look at Forrest’s timing and placement. He’s impeccable. Borders books had just gone with a crazy merger/relayout at that exact time. Historically that huge change marked the very beginning of the end for them. They were an AMAZING local book shop in Ann Arbor that turned into a national chain. When that happen the same time forrest went in the store Year “marked” by JDs death…they were singing their “swan song” with a massive remerchandising campaign to try and save themselves. All stores were later out on what they called “the race track” it was a total merchandising nightmare. F must have know this because the path he described and his places he “didnt spend much time in” follow the exact “new layout” of what ultimately killed the store. It also in Fs story, he makes it humorous because they added in the “Borders Cafe”….you see F was used to the old store.where all employees were knowledgeable…..the girl was a U of M student (home of original local borders) and hence knowledgeable so she smirks since she’s a customer in the coffee shop and F can’t even tell who works where. The cashier who recognises him from prior day and SCREAMS CATCHER IN THE RYE is most likely calling the title across to the book store to the book cashier since F, again for the second day in a row, is trying to cash out in the café since he hasn’t been there in so long and has no clue where anything is. Silly him..

            Approaching people instead of the computer Kioskthe girls bold braids have “purpose” because she connects the last and present…hence she is his “catcher in the rye” again just my take but not as far fetched as you may think when you look into the accuracies of timing and placement and characters…..and we know he has a penchant for LOCAL knowledgeable stores just through his TTOTC marketing.

            I swear the whole book is like that…

            Every little detail he gives us is RIGHT EXACTLY as it should be. It’s an amazing book probably with a whole library or more of info in there….you just gotta look at the stuff beside the chest to see the meatballs from the spaghetti all covered in cheese. Ha.

          • I didn’t say they were deliberate clues to the chest….just deliberate EXCELLENT writing both historically accurate and a bit of fantasy. I’m not smart about this stuff just when I wonder something I read about it so if he put in a detail I assumed he meant to and read about it. After a ton of reading and learning lots of stuff that made me wonder didn’t anymore. That’s all. So I think that stuff explains stuff like the Ls or the Borders or whatever…..not DELIBERATELY PLACED…..just real true stuff written in a pleasurable way to read stories. Not.claiming it’s hints….though there may be some in that kind of thing just sharing what I’ve learned. No secrets here 😉

          • @jake Faulkner….if you did YOUR research and read the IMPORTANT LITERATURE….namely TTOTC….inside the cover on the dust jacket flap he says “unlock the clues inside these pages” pages. Plural. Pages. They could be total separate clues than the nine in the poem. Maybe not to “AID” the searcher….but maybe that dopends on how one defines “AID”…..certainly locating the pieces doesn’t “AID” the actual assembly. The poem takes care of the “aid” in “finding” not the book…I agree on that.

          • Would it not be deliberate? jonsey?
            I have read it many times & eaten enough fruitcake to know to cut down on the drugs.
            I think it’s time for me to check out…..

          • “deliberate” yes…..but not necessarily deliberate “aid” in the “finding” aka “putting together” department. That’s all I’m saying.

          • She was a little girl, then a little lady, and apparan try a mind reader because forrest never got around to asking…she had the cup covering her face…
            Lot of covering up in this chapter…

  86. Question; Why is the first clue important?
    Most will answer the obvious… we need to start some where Seeker.
    Little 5 year old Billy and Mom…
    Mom; Billy you need to go to school
    Billy; why?
    Mom; because everyone goes to school.
    Billy; why?
    Mom; because you need to learn.

    Why is the first clue important, we need to nail down that clue, without this clue you might as well stay home, many have been at the first two clue[s] and didn’t understand the significance of where they were, seemingly no one can’t get closer even if they are at the clue[s]…[ apparently even with the tools fenn has suggested, and most of the searchers live and breathe the chase ].
    So, are we needing to learn something by being there [ the first clue[s] to finalize the information in the poem?
    “I can keep my secret where”
    “the answers I all ready know”
    Is the secret something that we need to learn? on site @ the first clue[s].

  87. Hearing your discussion about geography – I always thought it was the study of land……….

    But tonight I looked it up and boy did it hit the nail on head………..

    “Geography is the only subject that asks you to look at the world and try to make sense of it. The field never stops being exciting because that’s what geography is all about – trying to make sense of the world.” –Peirce F. Lewis, Geographer

    Geography is the study of people, place, and the environment. Geographers examine the spatial organization of natural processes and human activities and the relationships that form between people and their environment. Maps and geospatial technologies are fundamental tools of the discipline.

  88. Upthread, seeker wrote:

    “Something is missing about the first clue. Something that just yells, you need to figure it out on site”

    The dialogue seeker, dal, and goofy, engaged in upthread is interesting. I do think the poem is all you need, for directional purposes. But …

    As seeker correctly says: “Something is missing about the first clue”. Yes, indeed. I would argue that what is missing is insight into why the hiding spot is so special to FF. For the answer to that, TTOTC provides the answer, somewhere in those 147 pages..

    As a result, you do not “need to figure it [the first clue] out on site”, in my opinion.

    So the first order of business would be to understand FF, relative to attributes that characterize such a special place. Then, use your geographic knowledge to transfer those subjective values to some general location in one of the four states. Once you have that generalized area, then use the poem as a map, beginning with the first clue.

    People who figured out the first 2 clues, then went right past the remaining 7 failed to personalize the general area to FF; at least that’s how I see it.

    Ken (in Texas)

    • Here’s another rabbit hole Ken (in TX)…
      Forrest says that searchers figured out the first two clues…
      But that doesn’t necessarily mean those were the first clue you follow and the second clue you follow..
      It could simply mean the first two clues found in the poem…which could be the 7th and 3rd clue you follow to find the chest…

      AND…Why do we need to know the reason why the hidey place is special to Forrest? The clues take you directly to it…
      Knowing that it is a fishing spot or a rock shelter or a bowling alley won’t help you because then your not following the clues…and that’s (according to Forrest) the way to find the chest. Seems like a diversion to me…Seems like it’s more important to work on the nine clues in the poem…

      But that’s just my jarhead opinion…

      • Hi Dal

        I can sincerely confess to being naive (trusting) in my first impressions of a person or any given situation, which has served me well in more ways than can be counted on all twelve of my toes, so here is my honest opinion;

        If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck’s a duck.

        so when I read “searchers figured out the first two clues” ..I figuratively see a duck.

        maybe the biggest secrets are best hidden within plain sight (?)

        I just think that rabbit holes are most suited to rabbits.

        (btw, what’s a ‘jarhead’?)

      • … “jarhead opinion”. (hehehehe)

        Point 1:
        “It could simply mean the first two clues found in the poem…which could be the 7th and 3rd clue you follow”

        My understanding is that the poem’s clues are in sequential order.


        Point 2:
        “Why do we need to know the reason why the hidey place is special to Forrest? The clues take you directly to it…”
        Yes, the clues do take us directly to it, if we know exactly what the first clue is and where on the map it points. But in the 5 to 6 years people have been searching, I’d say the first clue remains elusive and searchers have been all over the Rocky’s. So in that sense the poem’s clues have been useless. The clues become meaningful only after we presumably understand what makes this place special to FF. What does FF value? Find the attribute(s) on a map, then use the clues to zero in on a specific spot.

        Ken (in Texas)

        • Ken-
          On your point two…
          That’s exactly why I like Joe’s and L1’s comment above. There is some unique thinking going on there about how the poem is organized…

          In my undependable opinion the reason it hasn’t been found in six years isn’t because it’s in some difficult or inaccessible place…in my opinion it is because no one has stumbled on the key to the poem. And I like a unique perspective enough to try it out…
          So far, I like what I’m seeing…

          BTW..1-3-5-7-9 is a sequence…
          So that does not rule out the possibility that the clues are in some different order than directly one after the other…

          On the other hand he did use the term “consecutive” at least once to describe the order and that makes my “order of clues” idea stickier to apply but that won’t stop me from looking at it for a day anyway. 🙂

          For instance they could be consecutive but that does not mean clue 1 is the first clue. Clue 1 could be in the middle, followed by clue 2, followed by clue 3…etc…

          We still don’t know what the clues are…all we can do is guess and I think it’s highly possible the “key” tells us where to start…

    • Ken ~ “As seeker correctly says: “Something is missing about the first clue”. Yes, indeed. I would argue that what is missing is insight into why the hiding spot is so special to FF. For the answer to that, TTOTC provides the answer, somewhere in those 147 pages..”

      We have heard so many comments about the poem having all the information to find the chest, how the book will help with the clues, how the book has a couple hints and aberrations etc. But I’m reading your post as the book holds the answer… which reminded me of this quote;
      “There are hints in my book that will help you with the clues, but a clue will point you toward the treasure chest and a hint will just help you with the clues, if you can understand that.”
      [ I guess I just don’t understand that ]

      Like most of fenn comments on the book, he repeats the book to have hints helpful for the clues. I have a hard time thinking that the TTOTC has the answers. Now, one of my wild thoughts would agree somewhat with the book holding at least one answer… IF the actual starting point IS given to us. This might not be considered a ‘hint or a clue’ by fenns comment above, because we should know exactly where to start, but we still might not know what the first clue refers to and / or why.

      It’s very perplexing to me how searchers could indicate where they have been and not know they had the first or second clues and now maybe, up to four clues.
      Add the comment I think Liter81 posted about, [ paraphrasing ] if a searcher could get the first few clues they should be able to find the chest.
      I don’t find myself in a rabbit hole… I’m standing in quicksand.

      • Nobody on earth can find the TC with knowledge only
        of what the poem says. Let me illustrate why.

        If the poem said “Begin it at George’s monument”,
        a searcher would have to know what George is being
        referenced. While it’s true that most Georges may not
        have monuments named after them, most dead folks
        (as far as I know, in this country anyway) have a cross
        or gravestone where they are buried. But that’s a lot
        of Georges, no doubt! So a reasonable first guess
        might be to start at the Washington Monument, in
        Washington, D.C.

        FF has said that if you follow the clues precisely
        (paraphrasing), you can find the treasure. But it’s
        a fact, in my opinion, that you will need a good map
        and some other miscellaneous knowledge, particular
        in the field of folklore relating to imagination, as seen
        through the mind’s eye of a child.

        The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

        Good luck to all searchers. Please stay safe.

        • Is it enough to know where the first clues is? Or even if the first clue is the starting point?
          Apparently we don’t know either at this point in time. Which bring me back to the warning fenn has stated; “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

          Which “location” is he referring to… The overall area that the clues are at… the first clue and/ or starting point… location of the chest?

          We may need to know or figure out something in the field during a search to finish the quest… Yet there seems to be something important prior, as well, understanding and not just what the clues refer to as places. So what could that be? and where is it found… common knowledge, the book, a theme to the poem [ for lack of a better term ]… that one important possibly that fenn mentioned… or like your example of GW, is riches the kicker here.

          • “there seems to be something important prior, as well, understanding and not just what the clues refer to as places. So what could that be?”

            Repeating myself here … the answer to your question lies in TTOTC, in my opinion. Don’t know why that is so difficult to consider. The hint in the book gives you a reason to narrow the search down to a small part of one of the four states. Without that hint, the poem can still lead to chest, but task is more daunting.

            Ken (in Texas)

          • Ken,
            Sure… we’ve been told the book will help with the clues, So really, all you’re doing is repeating FF.
            You said: ” The hint in the book gives you a reason to narrow the search down to a small part of one of the four states. Without that hint, the poem can still lead to chest, but task is more daunting.”

            I find your comment interesting for the fact that many have been near ~ by ~ walked pass ~ went pass ~ indicated / told fenn their process of searching… yet no one knew notta. I can understand why you might be hesitant to give out what you think you know that is in the book. But can you explain how those other searchers with the exact same information, who live and breathe the poem and the book, couldn’t figure out what you have, even when they were on site and even if it’s daunting?

            Apparently, I’m not the only one who; “Don’t know why that is so difficult to consider.”

  89. To anyone :

    I’ve seen it said over and over again that “people have figured out the first two clues”.
    Has f actually ever said that?

    Or did he say someone had made it to the area of the first two clues but Didn’t KNOW they were at the correct spot?

    There is a Big difference. If you don’t Know you are at those clues, then you have NOT figured out squat.

    I see people doing that a lot, saying f said this, or that, when sometimes that isn’t what he said at all.

    Seems to me, that f said you would not know you had found the correct wwwh, until you had the chest in your possession. So, if you are operating on the assumption that wwwh is one of the first two clues, then you would have to surmise Nobody has FIGURED OUT the correct location of wwh.

    It is not a critical factor for me but, it is deceptive in the way it has been, and is, being bandied about as an actual quote from f , if in fact, that is not what he said.

    So, can someone clarify this, please? Did f indeed, use the words “figured out”, in this context?

    If he did not, then maybe we should stop attributing it to him.

    • my bad RT, seems my quicksand too swiftly became a quagmire of chinese whispers.

      “Some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close”

      hope this helps clear your conundrum.

    • Yes… said… ypu need to dig a little harder.
      There are more than one direct comment concerning the first two clues.

    • Roll Tide,
      There are a bunch of statements where Forrest used different wording.
      (8:28) “There are several people that have deciphered the first 2 clues, I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the TC.”

      Here’s another:
      “Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues.”

      I don’t know where the “figured” quote is.

      • Forrest, you have stated that several searchers correctly identified the first two clues in your poem. Could you tell us how many searchers to your knowledge have correctly identified the first clue correctly? Thanks. ~49 Dollars
        No 49, I cannot tell you how many searchers have identified the first clue correctly, but certainly more than several. I cannot imagine anyone finding the treasure without first identifying the starting point, although many seem to be preoccupied with later clues. To me that’s just expensive folly. f

        Searchers have routinely revealed where they think the treasure was hidden and walked me through the process that took them on that course. That’s how I know a few have identified the first two clues. Although others were at the starting point I think their arrival was an aberration and they were oblivious to its connection with the poem. Playing a hunch is not worth much in the search and those who start out by looking for the blaze, are wasting their time.f ~ Jake had this one but I think the second part is important as well…

        “Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close. Alas, and dame fortune, so often a fickle and seductive wench, never spun her wheel to lure them back.”

        Are there signs that people are getting closer to solving your puzzle?  How many clues have people solved now?
        Searchers have come within about 200 feet. Some may have solved the first four clues, but I am not certain.

        Do expect that people will somehow *know* for sure once they have found the first clue?
        No, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds  the treasure they will not know for sure that they have discovered the first clue.

        ROLL TIDE, there are many comments about the first two clues ans between Jake, curious hobbit and I, we have listed just some… you need to dig into the after the fact comments if you want to really know what as been actually stated.

        • Seeker –

          The person that finds the treasure will for sure know they have the first clue before they go or they will never find it.

          ff has given the exact starting point in his book. He has been giving out hints to try to get people to figure out what is right in front of them.

          ***** my opinion only******

          • That contradicts what fenn said… not knowing they have the first clue correct until they have the chest.

            So again… IF the starting point is in the book… is it to be considered a hint or clue if it is an answer already?
            It can’t be both.
            Not in my mind, and not by fenn’s comment of how a hint and clue works.

            Just like any puzzle, riddle,mystery etc. Clue are collected to find answers…if we are given the answers up front….it can’t be a clue.

        • To all, thanks for your replies,

          I find it puzzling as to why we all tear the poem apart for six years, to try to understand what f is saying, then we tear his Q&A apart, we rip the book to shreads searching for a crumb (we’ve even been known to burn it), we scour everything the man says or types, looking for anything at all.

          But then, we automatically take as face value any and/or all of the comments above.

          Why is that? Do we really know what “several” means?

          Which begs the question : Do we really know what “identified” means?

          Identified: cited, depicted, described, localized, mentioned, outlined, posted, reported, seen, found, named, disclosed . . .

          Just because someone “mentioned” one or both of the clues in an email or otherwise, does not definitively demand that we are to read this as someone having “figured it out”.

          It is rather easy for me to see this as someone describing, to f, their chase, and in so doing they mentioned driving past a location that f knew to be a clue, but they didn’t know it or recognize it as such. All of the above comments do not have to be stretched to read them in this fashion, as f stated it himself :

          “NO, many people have found the first clue but they didn’t know it. Until someone finds the treasure they will not KNOW for sure . . .”

          So, again, how does any of the above comments support the idea that someone has figured out the first two clues?

          I see it as hope, at best, and folly at worst to hinge any measure of confidence upon the premise that anyone has figured out anything definitive.

          None of us can know that . Until Indulgence is awakened . . .

          • Great comments from all.
            Seeker….I agree with your logic that none of us can know which clues are correct or not until we have the chest. Obviously if a few folks were close a couple of years ago, what does that tell us? It tells me they didn’t know they were close or that their solve was heading in the right direction and here now after some time, the chest is still not claimed.

          • Roll Tide,
            You may need to read them again and like I said before… those are just some of the comments stated over the years.

            I’ll only state this as my opinion:
            What I think we know is, by reading all the comments involved is; searcher have been at the location[s] of the first two clues… “went” / “walked” pass the other seven clue and the chest. Fenn knows of this because searchers have told him by e-mail [ and maybe other means, book signings and such ] exactly/detailed of where they were.

            To fenn’s knowledge they didn’t know they had those clues correct or that they went pass the other clues nor the chest… even though they told him their solve etc.

            Hence the reason once again the discussion that was going on yesterday. recently [ this year ] fenn stated some have mentioned as many as 3 – 4 clues, but again he feels they may not know. So this begs the questions[s] how do these folks who live and breathe the chase not know they had the clues [ by fenn’s words ] even when on site / sight. what is it that we are all apparently missing?

            Now if your concerned about how many several means… just for fun we have over the years approx 100,000 searchers. break that down to 25,000 per state or 25,000. And just o be fair lets cut that in half for 12,500 for each state over the years and use a very low percentage that could have been at the location… 1%, that’s 125 possibilities. If we want to be completely honest with that possibility,because not all searcher talk to fenn, cut 1/2 of that to be 75.
            Is that several enough to say, we [ the searchers ] seem to be missing something very important?

            I have my thought… what are yours?

          • TSHB,

            That’s not my logic…” none of us can know which clues are correct or not until we have the chest.” it’s what we’ve been told.
            Also, I don’t think that, as you said;
            “… that their solve was heading in the right direction…”
            In fact I think the opposite. I believe that it’s possible “their solves” lead them way from the clue [ making them walk by ] and the chest.

            I think, they got there by a good guess to be honest.
            Maybe something from the book, maybe something from the poem ~ yet not fully understanding it, maybe one of a SB or Q&A gave then a nudge there. But they all seem to be missing something… I personally don’t think they all made mistakes by simply turning left when they should have turned right… I have a little more faith in the intelligence of some of the searchers, than not being able to follow descriptions of point to point… something is not being understood right at the get go

            IMO of course.

          • Seeker –

            You said ” That’s not my logic…” none of us can know which clues are correct or not until we have the chest.” it’s what we’ve been told.
            Also, I don’t think that, as you said;
            “… that their solve was heading in the right direction…”
            In fact I think the opposite. I believe that it’s possible “their solves” lead them way from the clue [ making them walk by ] and the chest.

            I think, they got there by a good guess to be honest.
            Maybe something from the book, maybe something from the poem ~ yet not fully understanding it, maybe one of a SB or Q&A gave then a nudge there. But they all seem to be missing something… I personally don’t think they all made mistakes by simply turning left when they should have turned right… I have a little more faith in the intelligence of some of the searchers, than not being able to follow descriptions of point to point… something is not being understood right at the get go

            IMO of course.”

            You are completely correct. When you know wwwh you the understand the answer you seek as to why those who got the first two clues right couldn’t figure out the other.

            ***** my opinion only***

          • Jake,

            Sherlock Holmes; Watson, we’re missing something elementary in solving this case…
            Watson; Yes Sherlock, we have a dead body.
            Sherlock smacks Watson upside the head for stating the end result, and not the clues that lead up to it.

  90. That teasing chest showed up in my dream again last night, I found it hidden on a high shelf. : )

      • Yes, of course I did! But, it was just a dream ‘copy’ and when I opened the lid, it was just full of a bunch of weird stuff! : )

      • Maybe his mummies grabbed it first to keep him from climbing too high? Could have quickly turned into a nightscape or worse, a goat. Lol

        • I’d want to stay low enough not to looka thunderhead in the eye….or anywhere else for that matter. Too much lightening…way to many blazes there for me….don’t think my Bikes could run that fast- theyd be burning their rubber souls all right. That’s for sure. Good advice to stay low and stick with silver Converse All Stars and a flashlight in a blanket fort. Way safer….and better SnackTime too. 😉

    • Seeker,

      Strange as it may seem, I agree with everything you just said, other than I “may want to read them again”, as I have read those and others numerous times already. Nowhere, in any comments anywhere, have I saw where f has said anyone has “solved” the first two clues. Or any of the clues, for that matter.

      As far as I can tell, the closest he has came to saying this is “Some May have solved the first four clues. But I am not certain.”

      Why “the first four” and not the first three? Or seven?

      Because that searcher(s) mentioned a location that f knew to be clue number Five. But f can’t be certain, because they did not mention location(s) that depict clues 1-4.

      And yes, you have said it many times before, we are missing something very important. I fully agree with that.

      Something about looking so far ahead that we can’t see what is right beside us.

      • “Something about looking so far ahead that we can’t see what is right beside us.”

        Yep, This is how I see what could have happen… those searchers may have read the poem as point by point that needs to be stomped out. So as they were leaving to go to what they believed to be the next clue… the left all the other clues ‘behind them”

        They were looking so far ahead, they didn’t pay attention to what was near them or what they could see from the site / sight.
        They might have been better off if they tarry scant a little longer.
        But that is just a thought.

        • Seeker,

          Exactly. “. . . what they could see from the site/sight.”

          I firmly believe that the searcher that finds Indulgence might be able to see all of the clues that s/he used to get there, from the spot it is found.
          If you are within the 5,000 – 10,200 parameter, there are places you can see for quite a ways off.

          I also believe that when you tarry scant with marvel gaze, you will see all of this and ask yourself “what took me so long?”

  91. A friend of mine recently emailed me and said “the treasure is buried somewhere within NM, Colorado, Wyoming or Montana. Well, I got within 200 feet of the Colorado border,vthen turned back east. So I can safely say that I have been within 200 feet of where the treasure is buried”.

    Interesting e-mail.

  92. When to use ‘passed’ vs ‘past’ it’s very confusing to me!

    I’m wondering if ff knew he’d be helping folks with spell checking proper grammar, lol! Being from the deep south I’d tend to use ‘past’ with emphasis on the T sound….but, I still can’t figure out in this case which form to use. Searchers walked passed or searchers walked right past? More coffee please!

  93. …I believe that folks(searchers and non-searchers) are in the general area of the treasure regularly, and move right on by. Forrest has indicated that “searchers” may have solved some of the clues because they email him where they are searching. Maybe a searcher sent photos which led him to believe they had possibly solved the first four…?

  94. Has anybody looked at the poem as directions to build a crystal radio? First line is tube; in there; light at end of tunnel. Second line can anagram to wire, nut, bolt, etc. Would explain the architect comment by forrest when building poem!

  95. Oh dear. There’s no reply option where I would have responded to comment/question from seeker, upthread. So I’ll post my response below.

    To summarize the exchange, I suggested that TTOTC contained hints to the starting location. Without those hints, the poem could still be used in standalone to find the chest, but the task would be much more daunting.

    Seeker wondered about other searchers who had been fairly near the location but still didn’t find the chest, and asked >>>

    “But can you explain how those other searchers with the exact same information, who live and breathe the poem and the book, couldn’t figure out what you have, even when they were on site and even if it’s daunting”

    My guess is that they were not “on site”. Instead, they were in the right area, say a ten mile by ten mile square. But once you’re in that generalized area, you need more precise guidance from the poem’s clues to narrow down the search to a smaller, more manageable area. In other words, within the correct general area, they took a wrong turn here and overlooked an important clue there; hence they went right past the chest.

    Ditto those who were within a few hundred feet of chest. They correctly identified the reason to search this general area, and identified initial clues within that larger area, but got sidetracked by later clues.

    I still view the clues as a funnel. And just because one correctly identifies first several clues doesn’t mean one can identify all of them.

    Ken (in Texas)

    • Ken,
      My problem with your thought of a general area being 10 miles sq and the searchers were “not on site”…
      fenn’s comment was, the searchers explain [ by e-mail ] in detail exactly what their solves included and where they were at and where they went. That is how he knew searcher were at the first two clues, and how they walked pass the other seven clues etc.

      You said: “you need more precise guidance from the poem’s clues to narrow down the search to a smaller, more manageable area.”

      It sounds like that those who were at the first to clues were at the precise location. Just for the fact they walked by the other clues.
      IMO, I find it hard to see how the Few, the several, the many searchers all took wrong turns and still manage to walk pass the chest… while we don’t know the numbers of searcher involved… I see this not as wrong turns so much, but a complete misunderstand of either clues 1 and why it is so important to nail that down, and or, they all read the poem the same way / method and even though they got to where the clue are… maybe by a good guess or like fenn said aberrations… The misunderstood what the poem was telling them.

      The one single commonality I see here involving the first two clues is… they all walked pass the other clue, meaning they continued on.

      • I can see how you would come to that conclusion, especially with the word “walk”.

        But maybe that’s being too literal. In other discussions, he uses the verb “went”, as in … went right past the chest.

        Can we be that literal? I don’t know.

        But one thing I notice about how you interpret the clues is that you seem to believe that the first clue points to a very small area, whereas I view the first clue as pointing to a larger, more general, area.

        A topic that doesn’t get much play on this blog is “geographic scale”. Maybe it needs to be discussed more. Does clue 1 point to a larger, more general area (as I interpret), or does it point to a tiny area (as you seem to interpret).

        My own personal view is that his phrase “too far to walk” suggests that early clues imply a larger area, and searcher needs to narrow it down. But I could be wrong.

        Ken (in Texas)

        • Ken, I’m with you on this. And I also agree that
          the clues get easier and easier to solve, as one
          succeeds in solving the poem . . . until, perhaps,
          the last clue. It does help to have BOTG at that
          point, but can be done without leaving home, in my opinion, if one is “wise” enough.

          The above is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

  96. This thougt hurts my brain to even figure out a simple way to phrase…and applies to many things F has said in q and a….but here goes. Looking back on many Q and As I’ve been fascinated by this concept all week:

    – a few searchers have identified the first two clues then gone past the rest

    -. The little Girl in India can’t get past the first two clues.

    If I make “past” mean the same thing in both sentences it completely changes the entire meaning of the other. I mean either it’s good to go past them or its not. Maybe we should make up out minds

    ….unless the searchers that got the first two clues went past the “rest” (as in a solve for where we go in peace) then I guess it could be consistent meaning.

    Also…is identifying a clue the same as identifying what it means? If now countless Ppl have identified WWWH or Brown or insert whatever you like as clues. Doesn’t help with their answers though.

    I dunno. Just some random fenn brain hurt for the evening.

    And where’s the rest of the mummy whose hands guarding the gold anyhow? (Just kidding…make .no bones about the last thought I don’t want to start trouble )

  97. Anyone ,

    Every time I try to post on Jenny’s site, I automatically go into moderation and never come out of moderation.

    I’m never rude or anything, I just go into moderation no matter what I post.

    Does anyone have any input on this ?

    Am I failing to do something correctly ?

  98. I’m grateful for everything that is posted to help us with our searches but does anyone know how much info Jenny has and how long before she runs out of weekly words?

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