The Hidey Space…Part One


This is the place to discuss the the space where the chest is hidden. Is it in a cave, a hole in the ground, in a river or creek, behind a waterfall, out in the open? Tell us what you think the resting place for the chest looks like.

965 thoughts on “The Hidey Space…Part One

      • Geyd-
        It was too long. It messed up the beautiful symmetry of the sidebar. The design freaks were quick to let me know I created a “landscape ledge” which stopped the comfortable travel of the eye from one lilting line to the next…

      • That area’s been picked over rather thoroughly. When we hiked up there last year, a couple guys were doing the whole streambed and canyon sides, one in waders in the water [nevermind the hazard, going right up to each falls in the stream], the other on the banks. From what I gathered, they were neither the first nor last to do so. Oh, and they said they were searching for indian relics. Riiiight!

      • Raymond, Your comment interests me, since that spot fits so many of my interpretations of the clues. Then I discarded that spot when ff said: “There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure.” What am I missing? There is a very, nice human trail there, isn’t there??

          • yes that maybe right but i dont think the animal put in the narrow foot bridges which can be very wobbly with BIG rocks a few feet below. we interrupt Mr F comments to mean there who not be any human trail. we could be very wrong and wouldnt be the first.

      • I think I have it narrowed down even further. Will be at Clear Creek next week to see if I am right.

        • Hi Chris…I changed my conclusion slightly since that post. I would love to hear how you got your conclusion and compare notes if you are interested. My email address is Good Luck !!!

        • good luck with your search be careful using the foot bridges one we crossed in 2013 was VERY shaky and we nearly fell.

    • The first sentence of the poem suggests it’s inside something – new and old. Perhaps behind a waterfall which is old but always moving, uncovering new. Perhaps?

  1. I found an old stone prospectors shelter with a metal roof, and in the soft pine midden on the floor was a perfect 10×10 depression easily made by a heavy metal box. But, alas, no treasure chest. A Fox bed, maybe?
    I hope whoever finds the box will tell us.

    • jmbguidry we dont think its in water for the biggest reason that dal mentions because the chest isnt locked and the chest might get dumped by water turbulence.

  2. I expect it to be hiding in plain sight and will only be found by someone who is looking and really seeing. In my mind, Dal hit it on the head in his post (sorry, I can’t remember where it was right now) about walking along a path with a tracker where a doe and fawn were resting in the brush and the tracker saw it right away and it took a lot of time/effort for Dal to finally see it too. If one is not a tracker then they will have to be patient and REALLY pay attention or it may be missed.

  3. I thought it might be perhaps in the ground/small hole, under a slab of rock, sort of like the illustration in TFTW. His recent Mummy post makes me now wonder if it’s in a cave or depression in the side of a hill covered with a rock. The chest is not large so the space it’s in is probably not too big either and may be hard to find even if you are fairly close.

      • The illustration on Page 218 in TFTW shows a Native woman lifting up a flat rock to retrieve food stored in a hole in the ground. I wondered if that might be a way Forrest might have hidden the chest. A 10x10x6 hole wouldn’t be too big too dig would it? But some of the other things he has said about what might affect the chest make me think it is not hidden in that manner. How would wind affect it if it was covered by a rock? Lots to think about!

    • Found a ΩΩ blaze on a rock in yellowstone national park but can’t seem to get any further with it. 😐

      The picture of the boulder

      More info on it

      Hope somebody solves this mystery.

      There is also a weird website I found that I can’t make sense of that may be related or a prank (I can’t tell and gave up trying to make sense of it).

      • Pete-
        That where wherewarmmwatershalt website has been discussed a lot, here and other places. I believe it’s just something put there to garner attention. Someone built it to be mysterious and attract comments. I do not think it has any useful purpose and I don’t think it is connected to Forrest in any way.
        Many blazes that searchers find out in the mountains are there for the same reason. Someone thought it would be clever to carve an “F” on a rock somewhere to give people something to talk about…or worse to fool searchers into thinking they had found Forrest’s blaze. Why do people feel the need to do these things…???
        I suppose it’s related to the same instinct that draws human beings to tag buildings and earlier man to draw demons on the side of rocks…
        “I was here”..

        • Dal and all,

          I have worked with websites for many years. I was able to do a little trick on, and it is a nonsense sight. Whomever built it did so without any real content. It has a bunch of pages to it, but they are all just words associated with Forrest’s treasure.

          Try this: Go to, and in another tab, open the website. Copy the web address, then go to the Google tab. Type “Site:
          ” into the google box (without quotations), then paste the web address in after it. Every page for that website will be listed. It works on almost any website, unless certain settings have been set up.

          So, I think it is just a BS website. Nothing of substance behind that front page.

      • Pete,

        I would look at anything carefully, that even remotely looks like a ‘blaze’, because with the popularity of this chase, there will be those that will want to confuse others with marking trees and such to mislead. Freshly carved marks or paint, should be a sign that it’s not of Fenn’s doing. It should be well weathered.

      • pete, more people should think about the poem logically. I believe they will discover that they are not looking for “ΩΩ”…. they should be looking for “Ωfenn’s storyΩ”

        • Imho, that has nothing to do with the chase. However if the area does not prohibit the use of a metal detector I would give that a shot are the boulder and the general area. What you may have is the end of a trail marker. ( blaze )
          Question in mind is: Is this marker related to the old spanish trails or some
          outlaw gang of the old west?? Ummmm.

        • Hello, Decall. I have always loved your avatar. It reminds me of all those “so easy a caveman could do it” commercials. Those were funny…but so not true. Life was not easy for those people …and most people today couldn’t survive if they found themselves instantly time-warped to back then. A lot of people are ignernt and haven’t done their research. 🙂

          Speaking of which, Decall, you mentioned that people “should be looking for “Ωfenn’s storyΩ” “. That’s obviously a great idea. We ought to try to get inside his mind. Forrest has certainly provided many opportunities to do that. Whenever I hear this song I think about The Thrill of the Chase.

          Obviously, not all of the lyrics fit…but I love that song all the same. I haven’t lost the feeling.

      • Looking at the photo as best as I can I could not determine if that is natural or man made. Only seeing it first hand would resolve the question as to which it is.
        If man made it reminded me of a Indian trail marker. ( See treasure signs and symbols. ) My inclination is that it is a natural inclusion of intrusive rock into a host rock.

  4. For those that know me to some degree, I am a thoughtful person.
    Over the many months I have given this a lot of thought.
    My place of choice is a cave similar to the one Mummy Joe was found in.
    My reasoning for this is that a cave is not a man made structure. Therefore would last a thousand years short of a massive quake or volcanic eruption.

    The general area will be somewhat rocky, navigating the path will be challenging so take some water. Now I may be wrong after all I am still forming a mental picture of the hidey place he he he.

    I have this feeling that the treasure will be found by someone with the “Ummm I wonder what’s around the next bend”; attitude. Quite possible someone not really in search of the treasure.

    Best of luck to all.

  5. The fact that Forrest won’t tell us whether or not it is buried is, in itself a hint to the kind of place it is located, I think.

    Why not tell us?
    He says because it would be too big of a hint.

    What does that mean? Is it buried or not buried and why can’t he tell us?

    I think that it is not buried. But I do think that it is under foot and under the surface. So, to say it is not buried would be deceiving because some would say that it is buried…under rock.

    I say this for a couple of reasons. First I think Forrest has explored a lot of cave-like locations in his time. I say cave-like because I don’t think all of them could be classified as a cave so much as an overhang covering a space….like Mummy Cave, which is not really a cave so much as an overhang. Open enough to provide a good view and fresh air. Yet it provides some protection from most rain/snow showers. A good view of game trails along the river in front of the opening. A good place for First People to hang out when they came to the Shoshone River to fish and hunt…just as Forrest’s family used the place to have their lunch.

    I believe “no place for the meek” is telling us that it takes some courage to go into this place. Maybe you have to wiggle or crawl into it. It could be narrow opening to a cave. Or the entrance could be in a peculiar location in relation to where people typically stand when they visit this area. We know he said that it is special to him and that he “discovered” it..

    Although it takes some courage to investigate, it does not take mountaineering skills or advanced climbing skills or super-human courage….yet you cannot be meek…which is why the place is likely known only to him…no one else had noticed it…or at least investigated it. Forrest might know this because inside were Indian tools. Still laying in the dust…unmolested. No one had been into this place for hundreds of years…until Forrest came along. He feels it will remain unmolested for a long time to come. Even if he gives us a roadmap that tells us where it is…and so far he’s been right.

    When he uses the word “discover” I believe he was referring to the concept that not everyone would see it…would know it’s there. He didn’t know it was there until he “discovered” it. It’s not obvious. I suspect it is a hidden opening in rock…and I further believe that most people come to this area by being on top of it. Perhaps the road is above. They park their car and walk out on the rock ledge to gaze at the view and snap a picture. No one looks to see what is below the ledge. The entrance is on the wall of the ledge where they are standing but they have no idea…nor do they care to investigate…that research was left to Forrest.

    I think this ledge and the cave-like orifice below face a body of water. I think people come to this ledge often. It may be a famous “kodak moment” location. A view of a beautiful stretch of trout stream or a vast mountain meadow of wildflowers. Tourists above have no idea what is just a few feet below their shoes. And that is what makes it so likely that so many have been near it…but of course they had no idea about the treasure below.

    All just ideas. I have no evidence to support any of this…it’s what I believe is most likely given the skinny info Forrest has handed out…

    I think visualizing the place where the chest might be located helps me hunt for it…

    • I agree Dal. Astute as always. I also think many people could be rafting by and rarely if ever stopping to snoop around.

      • Kyote. FYI… Nor said she has you on her prayer list and asked how you have been. You can reply your answer to her.

    • Dal,

      I believe you raise some interesting points regarding the chest being buried or not, but we all know that it would only be conjecture on our parts to assume it is one or the other.

      Having spent as much time on this poem as I have, I can see why he can’t reveal it’s current disposition. I found his comment to be another important clue. I’ll give you a hint. Read stanza 4.

      As far as some place being special to him and the fact that he “discovered it”, doesn’t mean he was the first person to ever go there. According to definition, discover means – find (something or someone) unexpectedly or in the course of a search. Which is what I feel is what he meant when he said that. He was always searching. Once there, if he found artifacts and such, it would have become one of his special places.

      But then, this is only my opinion.

      • only problem I see is if he picked this spot to die someone would notice if ya get my drift.

        • Paul,

          Location, location, location…

          Who could possibly know?…

          It’s better hidden than the clues of the poem…

          And those are right under your nose!…

        • Paul, that is one of the questions I had early on… “Where could he go put his body (without preparation) and die with the chest?”… That no animal of human would be able to smell and or there be any disassembly of his body???

          May the cold has something to do with it?

          However, I think that issue has been answered in another Fenn statement.

    • I believe our visions are similar Dal…

      It’s only the possible location that separates our thinking…

      I also believe there may be more there in the cleft of the rocks than the chest…

      Things, that out of reverence and respect, he may have left undisturbed…

        • Kyote,

          Not necessarily a mummy, but some form of remains and possibly with remnants of tools and/or belongings…

          Maybe an ancient Native American that succumbed to starvation or froze to death while taking shelter there…A shelter that became a tomb…

          I think to Mr. Fenn finding an artifact or two is one thing, but plundering a tomb that is occupied is quite another..

          And it’s location could have a lot to do with it as well…It is quite possibly a stunning view from the mouth of the tomb…Something so deeply moving and spectacular as to make a man think twice about disturbing the slumber of an Ancient one…

          “But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
          Just take the chest and go in peace.”

          Just the way I read the man…

          • Imho, Forrest would not place the treasure in someone’s tomb. He has a good deal of reverence for the dead esp those from ancient cultures. And logic says he would not place a searcher in legal jeopardy.

            My view is that the spot will be interesting and may have a few artifacts laying about. None of which would add much to our understanding of said culture.
            However they would be a treasure to someone like me.

            Picture if you will: A spot that overlooks a enclave with a entrance just large enough for a man to enter. ” I have gone alone in there” The view may or may not draw one’s interest. Is it a peaceful area? etc.

    • Dal ..I do think you are right about the entrance and people not recognizing it for what it is. I don’t think it is close and I don’t think many have been near it. Somewhere there is a story how Forrest was disappointed to see another person in the area. I also think there is water there. Either running or dripping. Hear me all and listen good. There is most likely a ledge or two with some kind of holes or pockets where you could put things probably used for that purpose from an earlier time. Just IMO of course.

    • Dal,

      We agree. When we were searching in the Jemez area, before that got knocked out of contention, we focused on hollows below ridges, mostly in canyons. Places where there’d be a view, shelter, privacy, they could have been used by native americans, and you’d have to be looking for it or curious about that semi-cave over there. We thought the “blaze” might even have been black marks on the ceiling of the hollow from ancient cook fires.

    • Just a thought to consider in regards to the cave theory… if I recall correctly (and I may be wrong because I am too lazy to go look for it), I think f talked about his bones rotting in the sun at the Moby Dickens book signing in Taos.

    • Dal’s conclusion as to where the chest is hidden is perfectly suited to hiding a Romanesque chest…a ledge and cave-like orifice near boulders or on a cliff ledge. Keeping in mind ff was intentional on everything related to the poem and treasure, and he states the chest was perfect…

      IMO the chest itself hints boldly the location:

      “Romanesque” archtitecture translates to: use of heavy masonry and natural stone with few, narrow openings; semicircular arches. Our national parks employed architect G. Underwood to develop a style of architecture utitlizing indiginous heavy stone and timbers to seamlessly fit into their natural surroundings. We refer to this as ‘parkitecture.”

      “Romanesque” literature translates to: extravagant liiterature as in fanciful fables, fairy tales.

      “Romanesque” in nature translates to distant, remote.

      Logically following all 3 “Romanesque” components to conclusion leads you to a stone spur, cliff, or rock outcrop with a narrow opening to place a treasure; all in a remote peaceful location where a beautiful, hidden, forested fenn leaves one daydreaming of fairy tales and memories.

    • Dal –

      You know how you get a picture in your minds eye of where the TC is – you just explained my picture.

      I do believe he hid it under a ledge of some type – or a shelf. When you find it – you will be above it and must climb down.

      He hid it so far back – or underneath – that we might need a flashlight to find it.

      I do think if you turn around you will be facing a stream. There is no trail that humans take – but horses do –

      Happy Hunting !

    • Dal-
      Great description of a specific area. “…a type of overhang covering a space…”dal. Maybe a type of overhang that if you stood below and looked at a full moon it might cut your view of the moon into a crescent (hewer with axe drawing). Some might use a made-up-word such as an outclave to describe this type of overhang.
      Do you think the poem is so precise that once it is deciphered you will be able to determine if the chest is buried/covered by rocks/tethered by a rope or squeezed into a crack like the bird sitting on the ledge of the moon?
      Pip- I liked your description of the view from above. I think both Dal’s and your descriptions can be used to describe the spot.

      Raven – great posts to keep me thinking. Funny – I recently received a video of a search area and as the camera spanned the area a deer was watching from the edge of the woods.

      Actually everyone’s posts have been thought provoking–just felt like mentioning a few that stuck.

    • Forrest did slip one time on a video saying ” I buried it… and then he corrected himself. This could be like the 7,000… 5,000 ft comment. If I read his micro expression correctly he was thinking “dang, I said buried, and I don’t want a lot of people out there digging”
      I believe it will fit the meaning of the word “buried” but not totally buried like the bells. Like behind / under some rocks, or like the picture in tftw with the indian girl and the hole in the floor with the lid on it.

    • Hey Dal! It’s February, and I seem to recall reading somewhere that FF hid the treasure in February. Can you please verify?

    • I believe FF has answered this question at themoby dickens interview when he asked which was better dying in a hospital bed with tubes and machines or your bones rotting in the sun

  6. Perhaps if it was in a cave or cave like then where’s the Wood ?
    Unless he stacked some wood in a cave 🙂

  7. I’m in the “cave team”, and I’d like to add that it’s pretty close to a road or trail 😉

    Why? Because it’s not “in VERY CLOSE PROXIMITY to a trail”.

    It rang really strange first time I read, so I’m questioning what “very close proximity” equates to in distance terms?

    If somebody say it’s “close” what would that be… a mile? I’d say a little streched.

    Now what would “close proximity” be… 500 ft. maybe?

    Finally, how close is “very close proximity”… how about 200 ft.?
    Sounds about right 🙂

  8. I’m on the “cave team” too. However, I think there is ice in the cave and it’s not the type of cave like Mummy Joe’s, it’s a cave you have to somehow get into it; enclosed mostly. I also think that it may be hidden in something wooden and high up like Dal said and possibly a ledge and it has boulders around. I haven’t been able to go with any certainty so I’m pretty sure that I don’t know where it is so I will continue researching and trying to not be meek because the higher I am and on the edge, the more meek I am, but I will continue. Go Team Cave!

    • Hi Carolyn, I like your idea about the ice cave. I’ve had the same thought too but I’m not sure how abundant ice caves are below 10,200 feet (I think I’m remembering the elevation ceiling correctly). Don’t most caves have a somewhat stable temperature well above freezing?

  9. Hey all…Has there ever been anything mentioned about the old air mail routes and the small shacks that were used by the workers that kept the lights lit? Just something I read about a long time ago and didnt know if others might have had any thoughts on them as possible targets to follow to get to “The” spot. Hoping everyone out there is well and enjoying the adventure. Wish I could make it out there someday.

    • I haven’t read anything about that Mike and I hope you make it out there someday too!

      • Thank you Carolyn, you are kind. I read about the old air mail pilots following a line of lights to guide them all over the country to deliver mail and where Mr. Fenn was so genuine in his love of flying, thought he might have come within sight of some of these old sites and decided to explore them on foot only to find a special place that became dear to him. Just a thought of mine. To see the beauty of the land from above is a marvelous experience…to find that same beauty on the ground and live within it and be part of it is a dream only few can share. Someday I hope to find a way to fish my way from New Mexico to Montana before I die, But before that dream can ever become reality, I must find a way to buy my Mother her home that is being taken away from her by her Brothers. I will keep my passion for fishing in my dreams to cover up the blackness of greed of others. Someday, for sure.

    • i thought about this a lot for long awhile…one reason (out of many) was “begin it where” (i ignored ‘warm waters halt’- Forrest says to begin it “where” – and there was an earlier “where” in the poem and i couldn’t escape the thought “where” backwards is “erehw”… sort of says arrow. according to the site I post below, there are only 2 arrow spots in our search area. one outside of Cheyenne, and one right into Colorado, north of Raton. Now go check them for me. Nothing is impossible, Mike. 🙂 Lets cross them off our list.

  10. The chest is in a high finance institution made of stone walls where a food stand sits on the curb waiting for everyone to step up to the window just the other side of a long spanning bridge… or maybe it’s under d skies.

  11. Since my trip is only a week away, I’ll give my two cents of what I think the hidey hole is. I think the poem tells you, and I think the reason people walk right by is that they haven’t figured out this part of the puzzle.

    If you look up synonyms for “found,” you’ll see that one definition is “to set right,” or “to set upright.” There is one instance in TTOTC where FF finds the gravestone and returns it to it’s proper position. There is another story in TFTW where he does the exact same thing in a different location.

    So, if you have found the blaze–set right something that has fallen– look quickly down. Or as I think, once you set the blaze back upright, you have to do something else to see the TC. If you find synonyms for “look” and then find the instances in TTOTC where he tells you the physical action you must do, you’ll see where it’s hidden.

    I don’t think it’s a gravestone. I think it’s a fallen…something…made out of wood. I don’t want to say, but I’ve pretty much said what I think it is in other posts. 🙂

  12. Dal, when and where (as in media format) did ff say he “discovered ” the hides spot? Missed that one.

    • @James – try Scrapbook 39: enter it in Dal’s search engine at the bottom of this page. Forrest’s own words about searcher/media comments. Lengthy but may be what you are looking for.

    • James-
      I will not be able to pinpoint exactly where Forrest used “discover”…
      It was more or less around the time when he told us that when he was planning to hide the chest he knew exactly where he would put it. I’ve heard this several times. It might have been something he said in TV interviews. Certainly spoken and not written as I remember the moments.

  13. Maybe Cold is not what we are thinking like cold water or cold weather it’s something different 🙂

      • Old Choctaw, if cold is a measure then maybe the ‘after midnight’ references in the book/scrapbk are directional – meaning north or just past north?

          • Mindy, my guess is every clue in the poem can be interpreted a minimum of 3 times correctly. ie: directionally; metaphorically (left in the cold, cold heart); physically (cold temp).
            I believe many are also interpreted with historical references and poetry or lit references which Forrest threw in for fun and because he’s just that clever. Also, symbols or pictographs – like Old Choctaw saying ‘what the eye sees’ ie – double OO’s look wise like an owl or like someone using binoculars to see a blaze, etc. The word where could be keep my secret “W” here or UU here, etc.

        • Could be my solve and location you can view all clues it has took me 2 1/2 years and 3 attempts to get here and couldn’t see it all on Google so I went and hiked it made some wrong turns and didn’t get to where I think the chest is located so ill have to do it again

        • Anna the clock hands would be in the middle at midnight. Maybe that’s why everyone talks about gravestones all the talk Fenn does about midnight.

      • For me its a dirrection which relates to the blaze like below the view of the blaze. to me the poem is all about what the eye sees

          • Darn, you’re making me re-think things I’ve already discarded…. like clocks and pay rates…. a bookstore attendant that’s paid $6.50 an hour, and all the rain & temperatures … and that collection list with weather vanes. (pg 128) ???

  14. DAL,
    IT, sounds like he was driving an invisible car, that came out of nowhere, left no tracks, hit a tree and then disappeared into thin air. Never to be seen or heard of again. IT was reported as the worst accident that anybody never saw! Nobody knew what he was thinking, thousands of people tried to figure him out. hundreds went to search for his treasures, trying to follow his invisible footprints in the sand to places he had never been. IT was amazing, all of the reports that came back from everywhere that IT was not there. A whole bunch of new searchers read or heard about IT, so they went and searched where everybody had went, then they reported back: That IT,was not there. Nobody believed them either.

    Everybody wanted to know, nobody would tell anybody anything and somebody would pass IT on, as if they knew what they were talking about. IT was the most confusing,misunderstood event of the year.

    Mr. Fenn was beginning to wonder if he really hid it himself, telling different stories, every time someone would question him.

    IT was like a new religion, the Forrest was afire, with a great BLAZE. Everyone was trying to figure what to do, who to follow, where to go, running to and fro. Falling all over each other.

    I sent all of this information to China for an interpretation. IT came back:

    Ancient Chinese secret, someone must die: SUM TING WONG!

    Finally somebody confessed that he or she, they don’t know who, did IT.
    Everybody believed IT, but no one did anything about IT.

    Question: What is IT? What is the KEY?
    Sounds like an inversion of privacy to me.


  15. “I’ve done it tired and now I’m weak”
    ‘People will be surprised by where it’s at”

    Look for the chest to be near a rest stop. One that also doubles as a picture taking / viewing area.

    • Forrest has said and I quote : ” The treasure is Not associated with a structure”
      A structure is normally a man made object.

      • Thanks, Chad. I think I understand it better now. I was confused by that because there are about three ways to look at it, IMO.

    • What size telephoto lens will I need to see it, or is it in the outhouse? Wait, that can’t be. Forrest said no outhouses. 🙂

    • Can anyone point to the source of this quote and the exact words used?
      “‘People will be surprised by where it’s at”

      Thank you
      The Wolf

    • Yeah, i agree. FF is the kind of guy who would hide millions in gold as well as his bones in close proximity to a rest stop where tourists can litter and pee on on his ‘special’ place. NOT!

  16. I am Team Cave also! Dal your description of the Cave is so realistic I feel like I have been there! Such imagery!

    • BW thank you for sharing the poem on Dal’s blog.Those carefree words spirited me back to my childhood/butterfly days. I could smell the sunshine and watch spring flowers dancing in the meadow… right beside an arrowhead, of course!

      • BW, i forgot to mention, my dad could sing just like the western meadowlark. when he called, they sang back from the soft pussywillows lining the creek. butterflies, buttercups and meadowlarks all dressed in sunny yellow. thank you for the memory!

    • Thank u for sharing the Butterfly 🙂

      Me and Butterfly’s have something in common. I have my own story on the Butterfly 🙂 !!!!!

  17. Butterflies flutter flit and fly around seeming to have no worry or care and how I wish that I could share The understanding of a Butterfly

  18. I agree with you Dal that the resting place, Forrest’s spot is a semi cave like place on ledge within a rocky outcrop (no mountaineering skills needed), not a vertical cliff face. The view, from an elevated position is down through a basin, with wooded areas to one or both sides. A river or a brook meanders along, curving through the basin floor. There are wild flowers and animal activity. At the far end of the basin higher mountains envelop the scene. A contained world within a world.

    I differ to Dal in that I think people have passed below the spot unaware (can’t be seen from below at all). I imagine a chasm seperating Forrest’s spot and a higher wooded area. It is from an unusual view point in this wooded area that you look down on the blaze. It may be on the top surface of a boulder, again can’t be seen from below at ground level.
    Roughly directly below the blaze is the ledge with semi cave.
    I also think the past tense “if you’ve been wise and found the blaze” fits this type of scenario because sighting the blaze is in the past in relation to having the treasure in your possession. Plus “But tarry scant”, don’t dally.

    All IMO, good luck to everone. Wish I could be there. Cheers.

  19. Old Shadows-

    glad you enjoyed IT.

    Thanks, I have had some good laughs at your comments to. where are you located?


    I was in YNP in July searching to find the treasure chest, IT is still there, The Yellowstone National Park I mean. I went out the east exit to Cody, saw the cave you are talking about , it is beautiful. Thought I saw Mr. Fenn waving as i drove by. Plan on going back next month to search some more places, then going to Santa Fe to meet Santa Claus, I mean Mr. Fenn.

    Hope to see you to. Maybe you will be unstunned by then. I’LL have a better story to tell you then. I have really enjoyed your efforts very much, keep up the good work.

    Search The West-

    IT is sort of like IF, the center of LIFE.

  20. Dal,

    As I have said before without your site my search likely would have led know where but now I think I am on the right track.

    Pip’s comments above are quite astute. He must be looking at the Black and white paintings. You know Forrest says they tell the truth.
    I leave on my 10th trip next week. Based on what I think have discovered the blaze is not visible in the current sense. History plays a part. And I think the location of the blaze is quite high on a mountain slope. I think Mountain topography will ultimately lead to the blaze but there is so much to learn about the blaze. Thank Heaven for Google Earth.


  21. Doug

    I believe the Blaze may be high as well. At this time if what I’m thinking it always changes:)

  22. Truly I believe, that the chest is hidden in plain site. In a display of some sort that looks like it belongs there and is right under our noses!! An Indian display with an Indian brave of some sort in the cold!! I have notebooks I need to re reference and remember where all of that could be possible and start from there. Also, he has it on his property and when you figure that spot out he will “GIVE YOU TITLE TO THE GOLD” There are all sorts of scenerios and I want to act all of them out until I find it. Happy Searching everyone. Mr. Fenn is a sly fox and one of us will catch him one day and he will have to lead us to his Treasure Chest of Gold just like a Little Person and his Pot of Gold. Rainbow and all. Is not Mr. Fenn’s treasure and happy place his Pueblo? Is it buried there or in almost plain site? Lets find out continue the chase and follow his clues!!! You all are it and let’s see who finds it first!!!! Beat you to the top of the mountain. TAG AND LETS GO

    • @Judy Girl – If attitude wins, you’ll find the treasure!! 🙂 As for me I went with ‘altitude’to the River canyons, mountain tops, and windy bluff; now I’m tired and weak like Mr. Fenn. Camping at home is welcome.

  23. I’m new here…could someone please point me to where Fenn said someone had emailed him about spending the chest money on a pool hall so kids Could play at night. Something to that affect.

  24. I believe it’s in a cave, up and away from animal trails. My guess, regarding the opening, is that it’s a part geological fault line that blends so well you have to be at a certain angle to see it.

  25. The cave is an interesting idea, Dal. If it is in a cave, or even a large crevice, then that might constitute a ‘fire escape’.
    Getting in there to retrieve it might stain your britches rusty brown. Just IMO.

  26. I will soon give my solve to dal to post. When I have a moment at a computer.
    I will say I’m folding my cards:)
    To let other searchers know that I have searched the Holy Cross Mounrain outside of Minturn Colorado. The Cross is Bold , it’s Hidden, ( secret)
    I will soon explain in detail my solve:)
    Coming soon 🙂

  27. Amy –

    Looking forward to reading your solve. Perhaps in the future something will trigger a new spot and you will begin again – I hope so.

    • Your Welcome Amy – You know right now we are only 130 miles away from your spot – so – if you think of anything else I would be willing to help you.

  28. Thank u
    I can’t seem to figure out another location then this one. I will post all the clues / hints that I have and my solve it may be a few days

      • Thomas

        Thank u
        I m not finished with my search
        I will give it another shot next year
        My interest is in Colorado 🙂

  29. I see trees, and a field of flowers below. A place where people seldom go.
    Is this a prairie Plateau? This I do not know. You see it came to me in a dream,
    as i was walking along a small stream. Tis the chest I seek, no place for the meek.

    Ummm what. Awww dang it the phone is ringing. My dream just slipped away

    • Sounds like a great dream. Try and go back to sleep. sometimes it miraculously works, and you re-enter the dream.

  30. when he mentions being a newsboy do you think that has anything to do with NEWS (as in direction?)
    any ideas as to how quest to cease may point to the spot? there HAS to be some directionality in those few lines….it can’t be what it seems to be on the surface. he says the riddle get easier as you go further down…not so. harder I think.

    • Hi Jes, I’ve always wondered if there is some sort of direction given in the phrase “quest to cease.” It almost seems like there has to be. But, I’ve been unable to come up with anything. Perhaps “quickly down” from the blaze is all you need to get to the final spot.

    • The author stated the “clues” are in consecutive order, does this mean the poem is in consecutive order?. The question is where to start the physical search. Does a searcher need to find WWWH to start a physical search? It may just be that IF you’ve been wise and found the blaze… Start your quest here.

      So Now searcher understands where/what the blaze is or the starting point, And follows the nine clues discovered in order in the poem.

      Food for thought.

    • L oo k quickly south your quest 2 cease. BUT tarry/black small just take the motherlode and peace out.

  31. Here is something that I have looked for and not found a direct discussion of: would Forrest have wanted his final resting place to be somewhere where his remains would be relatively undisturbed? Or would he be OK with wild animals scavenging and probably scattering his remains?

    Now, I am not familiar with what kinds of animal scavengers inhabit various parts of the Rockies, but I know that in some places this does happen.

    Certainly Forrest must have considered this, given his experience in the wilderness.

    • @Home… I do not know if you were new to the chase or not. Forest has said “The original poem that he wrote stated leave my bones and take the chest…” Therefore the hiding spot is a place where his bones will be un-disturbed.

  32. Well I don’t think it matters where he wanted his bones to be found, because his spirit has already left the body and that’s what matters 🙂

  33. Forrest strikes me as a practical man, couple that with his reverence for history and nature. I do not think he was concerned about the animals scavenging his remains. I think the spot maybe right under our noses and we fail to see it because it is so easy. Example? I was working on a laptop, laid the hard drive caddy down right in front of me. Got busy doing something else. When at last I got back to my repair work I could not find the caddy. Spent the whole afternoon trying to mentally place the where did it go…Later that evening I was just sitting there thinking about reading a book and looked down and there was the caddy.

    Sometimes away from something allows us a new perspective.

  34. How about this for a thought?

    ‘Look quickly south your quest to cease’

    Ok so here is how I see it, change to to 2 and then what? Well, see how Forrest put two t’s together “ques(t t)o” take the two t’s out and we have tt. What do t’s remind you of? They look like trees to me. So, look quickly down for two trees. Thoughts?

    • Lucky girl – if you remove the two T’s from ‘quest to’ you are left with queso. Say cheese! 🙂

    • questo in italian,means ‘this’. There are three th’s in the title. Fenn always stated that the problem was in the title. Huh?

      • Vic-
        I don’t remember Forrest saying “that the problem was in the title”. Does someone else remember that?

    • Well, why is it that I have not seen this thread at all until now. There are so many threads, I do not see how to keep up. Lucky, I agree and so was my original mistake. I came to the same conclusion and now see that you were already at “south” a month earlier. I do not get the trees, though. I have not understood any numerology with the poem. “South” is “down” and “look” is “probe” but I do not get “quickly” other than maybe “directly” or “due”. I will soon “probe directly south and maybe between two trees”. We’ll see or perhaps we’ll “feel” just like the kids did with Washington!

        • WiseOne, Not feeling the cold, but needing to feel to actually find the chest. I do not think it can be found by sight at first. I do not think the chest is visible even when looking in the right place. So, how does one know where it is underground – have to probe or feel for it.

          • Kathryn, don’t get stuck on just one meaning. You mentioned down being south, but it could be down hill, or the flow of a river. The chest is hidden, and IMO that does not mean berried, although I think it is under or in something, a log or wood pile, a pile of rocks has been mentioned. It could be just about anything that could hide it. Not much help but wanted to share my thoughts. I think keeping you mind open, but focused on the poem at the same time, will be what helps the person who finds it.

          • Thanks. I wish it were easily visible by the eye because I am physically limited. I reached the blaze and south means under something. Could be soil or could be rock. It still is a bit of an area to look. I’ll take your thoughts as I go back and look again.

  35. Based on a quasi lunatic theory, I have a very good hint of the hidey place.
    I need some help though. I am just going to speculate here. Don’t get excited, please. Fenn has stated that the chest measures 10X10X5 and weights 42 pounds. Right? Based on my calculations (call me nuts), If the vault or box measures 10x10x5, it should be 290 square inches. And believe me, I did this numerous times. Perhaps it is because I am basing it on a hexagonal pattern or a triangular lattice. I don’t know. BUT I don’t think my calculations have any flaws. And as for the weight, I got 57 and not 42 pounds! Isn’t that odd? The only place I found where it could be secreted does require a tool. That’s all I am going to say. But a child could definitely go get it for me if I explained how it is to be retrieved.
    I am working on a final analysis that has to do with wax. Maybe that plays into the weight aspect, but I am really puzzled with the volume! Any ideas?

    • Vic-
      I don’t understand. What is 290 inches?
      Is that supposed to be the volume? surface? something else?
      And the chest does not weigh 42lbs. The chest AND it’s contents weigh about 42lbs. The chest alone weighs about half that.
      Please explain what you mean..and how you arrived at weight by working with only the outside measurements of the chest?

      What do you mean by “The only place I found where it could be secreted does require a tool.” ?
      It sounds like you are saying your solution has brought you to a precise location…okay…I’ll pretend to buy into that…but so what if it requires a tool? He’s never said it wasn’t buried. If it were buried it might require a tool to unbury it. Has Forrest ever claimed that no tools would be needed?

    • Vic-
      I’m still stuck…so lets say you mean that your 290inches is supposed to be your calculation for the volume of the chest…what math are you using? If the outside diameter is 10 x 10 x 5 that would be 500 inches of volume…not counting the loss from the thickness of the walls…so lets say the walls of the chest are .5inches thick. That would mean the inside dimensions of the chest are 9 x 9 x 4 which equals 324 inches..
      How did you arrive at 290? Do you know of some way to calculate volume of an unknown irregular cube that the rest of us do not know? And I am still interested in how you get from volume to weight when you don’t know the weight, size or composition of every item in the chest…

        • Maybe he’s been listening to the song Lunatic Fringe by Red Rider. 🙂 He wouldn’t be strange for listening to that, IMO. It’s a great song.

  36. Let’s say for the moment that it is buried, by which I mean under the surface, not just hidden by a pile of stones or a fallen tree. How deep would it need to be to remain buried for say twenty years? I guess the answer would depend on location: if it’s on a hillside, near or even in a creek then deeper than if it’s in a dry, level wooded glade? More than a foot in some locations?

    • Although I am not a fan of the chest being buried for various reasons.
      I will toss my hat in on this question.

      Now lets consider the type of terrain, for the most part the rocky mountains are rocky. So digging is going to take some time. I would say if it were buried it would not be deeper than 3 foot down.

  37. Perhaps I missed this information buried deep in a blog, but does anyone know definitively of what material the inside lining of the chest consists?

    I have not been able to discern this information from photos of “Indulgence”.

  38. Hidden in plain sight. Hide by definition means to conceal, to camouflage, to cache. British noun… a camouflaged shelter to get a close view of nature. Some synonims… to curtain or bury. ENvision a hunters; blind. Have you noticed the animal skin (hide) on Fenn’s livingroom? That could be THE very hide!
    That’s what his replica airplane on the centre table is pointing towards.

  39. Ummm I think that is a little too literal, think along of the lines of…Now where did I put my glasses, Ohhh they are sitting on top of my head.

  40. HinPS. Hidden in plain sight. Not forgotten or left behind. Yet, if they’re taken from you… that’s different. Someone is playing rough. Can you imagine a river bank to be a hidey place? A museum! I’ve posed that option more than once. After all, imagine is almost the reverse for enigma. A war zone… trophy?

  41. Forrest repeatedly says not to mess with his poem. But tarry scant with marvel gaze, just take the chest and go in peace means…don’t mess with the hidey spot either. IMO

    • All the more reason to be certain before messing with the hidden spot. It can be quite difficult to put things back.

  42. Ok seeing we seem to be going in circles, lets try a different angle.
    If memory serves me correctly Forrest has stated that he did it in one afternoon.
    I.E Hid the chest. Now does this mean he drove for several hours before hiding it or did he leave his home and go right to the hidey spot?

    Comments, thoughts?

    • Perhaps he did the two trips from the car to the ultimate spot twice in one afternoon (sandwich to dusk/flashlight). Probably does not include the “drive time” to get to the general location.

  43. Chad, you make a good point. I am also aware of the statement that he went to the chests resting place twice in an afternoon or something like that. I believe if memory serves correctly, once with the chest and the second time with the treasure. Your question is a really good one. Did he drive there twice in an afternoon? Was he out of State in a rental car and went twice? Is it a public place somewhere that he drove to and went back to his car after the first trek? There are so many options to consider. I think that where ever he was he drove there and went twice to his car. Once with the chest and again with the treasure. If a bulb goes off on something else I’ll be sure to share! Happy hunting!

    • I can’t tell you where, but I remember him saying that he made two trips from his car to the hiding place in one afternoon. IMO that means that he hid it with one trip in his car to a place where he parked his car and then walked to the spot, once with the chest and the second time with the contents, in one afternoon. The thing he doesn’t say is if it took 20 minutes or 5 hours, either one could be considered “in one afternoon”.

      • One could also stretch it to mean two different hiding places, I can’t remember if he’s already struck down that theory.

    • You raise an interesting point did he drive his car, a friends car, or a rental. Does he own more than one car sitting in another state?
      My logic leads me to believe he drove his car, and he owns only one??

      Here is how I see it in my minds eye: On the day Forrest went to hide the chest.
      He drove x amount of time to the general area. This is not taking into consideration that he may have traveled the day before to the prospective state.
      Obviously Forest had a reason for being where he was. I.E. the state he hid the chest in. ( Was it for a fishing trip, a visit with an ole friend or a business trip? )

      Now I see Forrest’s car sitting in a public parking area. After all who will question a car parked in such an area? I can see Forrest opening the trunk of the car and extracting a backpack and a walking stick. ( Who will question a hiker with a backpack? ) Now this is where it gets sticky; did Forrest have two backpacks?
      Logic says maybe: two backpacks mean no fuss no muss grab and go.

      Now for the stickiest part. Considering the clues what is the proximity of the WWWH to HOB? Oh yeah that one will make ya head spin.
      So now we have several questions to answer:

      1) How much time was involved in the trip to the general area?
      2) What is the distances between each of the given clues? ( Within the poem )
      Note other questions stated in previous paragraphs.

      I am not going to expound any farther on my observations at this point.
      Due to the possibility of giving my in progress solve away.
      Forrest has given is a ton of hints and clues. When assembled properly understanding will reveal some interesting things.

      With the thawing snow our search’s will begin again, be alert, be safe and enjoy

      The Thrill of The Chase

      • Chad, love your thought process.. My main hang-up is whether he parked at wwwh, or that’s somewhere completely different and he really parked closer to the wood.

        • Ummm now you get it. Proximity in relationships to the other clues. No one in the past has answered this question.: Can you see WWWH from HOB?

          Wahahaha man the thinking caps.

        • In my opinion he parked near the hidey place and just carried the treasure in two trips from his car to it’s present location…which is not far…less than 500ft from where he parked.

          This is much different than the directions in the poem. In the poem we start further away but end up at the same place.

          In my odd little brain the chest is hidden pretty good…and the reason Forrest has never answered the question about whether it’s buried or not is because although he did not bury it…he did climb into a place and stash it in a situation that could be considered underground, and therefore buried by some…but not by all…

          You have to be somewhat adventurous and somewhat brave to climb into this place.

          There…doesn’t that clear everything up 🙂

          • Lol, it really does! Now we just need to know where that gal’darn hidey place/situation is, dag’nab it!

          • So when he said he “walked less than a few miles”, …’re saying “less than 500ft”? And HE didn’t take the same course outlined in the poem? Alrighty then. 🙂

          • Suzie you misunderstand, I am not saying that he took a different route to the hidey spot. As far as my 500 ft remark goes: it is a personal thought. At age 60 I ask myself how far can I carry 21 lbs? Without becoming to tired to make the drive out of the area.

          • Omg now I am hungry for a nice juicy steak. Wonder what buffalo tastes like??
            Smoked bbq buffalo brisket…. omg Now I am doing it to myself.

          • Buffalo is not close to juicy when compared to (beef) juicy steaks. I have tried buffalo but will pass from now on. Don’t even try ostrich if you prefer juicy either.
            I am certain, Mindy, that your reason’s are different than the above but thought I would throw out my reasons. 2 cents

          • Sry I did not reply sooner Suzie, comp crashed. Grrr google chrome.
            Let me take quick look at something.

            Few: more than one, less than five?
            One mile = 5289 ft. ( Football field = 300 ft, so 1 1/2 football fields = 450 yards.
            Just something to dwell on…)

            This tells me the general area is only accessible by walking with the exception of the parking area??? Ummm. where is my tylenol.

            Put it this way, Forrest may have driven right past several of the clues to get to the general area of the area he parked his car.

          • Dal,
            If you don’t mind saying:

            – Why do you think that you might end up where you start? “This is much different than the directions in the poem. In the poem we start further away but end up at the same place.”

            – Why do you think f climbed and stashed the chest rather than buried it below?

          • uken-
            Sorry if I led you to believe that I feel that the start and finish are the same..
            That isn’t what I meant to say….um is that what you meant? I’m getting confused!!

            I feel the poem tells us that we will see the chest if we start at the right place and follow the directions faithfully. If it were buried we would not see it before it was uncovered…and I don’t feel instructions to unbury it are in the poem…
            But then I have not been right in over 70 tries so there is no reason to believe anything I might spout..

          • Dal,
            I see where my confusion originates.
            “In the poem we start further away but end up at the same place.”
            I believe you mean, and I misunderstood, the end place deduced from the clues is the same as the place f placed the chest after parking the car. Correct?

          • uken-
            Yes..that’s it!
            I meant that the poem has us start in a place far away from where Forrest parked his car when he hid the chest..He took the shortcut to get there but the only directions we have are in the poem. So we start farther away than Forrest did..of course this is all speculation on my part..

          • Dal,

            Totally unrelated. If I took the time that I spend each day on average and multiplied that by $15 p/hr x 365 days in the year and then multiplied that figure by the amount of hunters I assume are serious… Well I get a figure far greater than the perceived value of the contents of the chest.

            I am one that will pursue the chase regardless but this might also assist in a sober reminder to those who might be willing to risk more than that which might be beneficial to their circumstances.

          • That’s a great point uken. On my first trip to look for the chest I mentally had all the money spent before I even got to the location. But trips after that have been significantly less and less about the money…and more and more about the fun and joy of exploration.

          • Dal,

            f has, in my own words, always encouraged us to enjoy the Chase, the Family/Camaraderie of the Chase and the Outdoors during the Chase. I enjoy the outdoors while searching on google earth and Goof’s pictures and that is the best I can do for right now. The landscape I’ve seen is unbelievable and I must get out there soon.

            In short I would say I approach the Chase in a manner of no regrets.

            “At the end of the day, let there be no excuses, no explanations, no regrets.”
            ― Steve Maraboli, Life, the Truth, and Being Free

            I enjoy solving things, I enjoy a competition, I enjoy learning new things, I enjoy the outdoors, I enjoy reading and I enjoy the Chase for all these reasons,

          • In me best pirate voice; Arrr tis adventure I crave. Yonder sights to behold.
            Booty to be had by ye store told.

          • IMO he drove the shortest route to the tc. forget about the clues, he knows the place. too far to walk is 10-20 miles from wwwh + hob + ? (other stuff) + 1 to 3 miles from the parking spot, because why would it be less than 1.4 miles if it was “less than a few” (sure, the tc is probably <500' from a well used trail)
            How could you see a buried treasure from less than 12'? (even though he did say buried on accident) probably concealed like he said…. covered with flagstone or wood. May even symbolize death / burial

          • I don’t recall him ever saying “you could SEE the treasure from 12′ or less”?? Who knows what he meant by the 12 foot comment. Heck, he could have meant that IF you got that close, then surely you would have used the clues to get you there and thus would be able to finish it? Or, he could have meant the ‘blaze’ or ‘look quickly down’? I just don’t think taking that comment to completely mean it is NOT buried, is a little naive. Personally, I will always keep all options open. 🙂

          • Not sure I follow that line of thinking Dal. my head is spinning after my latest computer crash. Seems google chrome is having some major issues.
            So now I am playing catch up… :/

          • I agree the starting point is x distance from the actual hidey place.
            imho Forrest knew the path to the hidey place but went straight to the area.
            By passing some of the clues. As far as the question of being buried goes I will say the chest is covered by something. 😉

          • I wonder how many times one has to “climb into and out of” this place before it is found!

          • Dal, I think it is buried because “look” does not have to mean with one’s “eyes”. Recall the art teacher where “look” meant with “eyes” and ff wanted the kids to “look” with their “hands”. I do not think the chest can be seen with eyes which means it could be gently buried. and that means no one would happen upon it.

          • I must of missed something… Where does it say that Forrest CARRIED the chest?

            Had to jump in.

          • How else would he have moved it? Some have suggested he may have used a cooler with wheels. I personally discounted this ideal based on the terrain of the given states. I.E. Rocky and sandy.

            Consider this, Forrest has stated he made two trips when hiding the chest.
            Imho he had it already packaged for transport from his car to the hidey spot.

            Hypothesis: Forrest took the chest to the general hidey spot area and set it down, returned to his car for the second half. Added the second half to the chest and hid it. I strongly suspect that the method of transport was a wicker creel.

          • Actually he didn’t but there are little hints as to this , continue your research , if I had the funds to go to N.M. I would be in the hunt myself.

    • That is an interesting thought Lou Lee, Problem is Forrest is a fly fisherman. Fly Fishermen by nature travel light. Most of the time they carry a pouch that holds a variety of flies. Their fly rod and wearing as you have stated waders. A net and a wicker creel.
      Now can you tell me how big is the biggest creel a fly fisherman can get? If it is big enough to conceal the chest with ease you may have hit on something.

          • HE may be 80, but he looks and acts 60! The chest is small. Can go in a small pack. He carried 22 pounds, twice. A short distance…..Easy.

        • I have a cooler on wheels it’s in back of my drivers car. She thinks it’s his? Go figure. Seems like we always go to the same place but end up in different locations. He thinks she needs a light. 2 sins might be right if they’re kept together. Or take five between the lines then add the 2 poles. Either way we still end up in close proximately. Go figure again.

          • Sorry not trying to confuse. Just trying to keep it deep. Scary thing is it made sense to me. When imagination is the only key you have to play with sometimes it gets abused.

      • Lou if Suzanne Sommers is a devotee of Forrest Fenn, then watch out! 10,000 feet no problemo 🙂 did you see that lady dance and twirl at 68. My gosh!

    • Uken2it

      That statement confuses me that u will end up where u started. My starting point is in one location and the other part a different location completely different. Although I’m assuming I know what the blaze is from a different location. So when I’m at my second area I do a circle and finish where I began in that location. So that tells me to go straight. Anyway confusing right 🙂

    • Geydelkon,
      I forgot about this thread, it was a good one, lots of idea’s and fun, nice people.
      I heard forrest say took and or Carried, but I do not know when or where, other searchers have all that info. in place….

      Happy Hunting!
      Lou Lee Belle, Chased by Brown Bears in Jellystone Park….and lived to tell.

  44. DP consider the terrain, most likely rocky. Being from Mi I would consider that if it was in a different area of the country. Toting a cooler on wheels may present some movement issues depending on accessibility. Therefore I do not think a cooler was involved. Logic and reasoning.

    • I agree a cooler is unlikely, just throwing that out there. Personally, I dont think he had to walk more than 60 feet from his car to the box’s hidey space with the box in hand (or backpack).

      • Dp lets look at what we know, Forrest has stated that some people have been within 500 ft of the chest. Now lets think about how far an 80 year old man can carry 21 lbs. Hold on brain flash in progress…. Ummm interesting, note to self.
        As I was saying; Could he have carried 21lbs 500 ft? Keep in mind that 500 ft equals 1 and 1/2 football fields roughly.

    • Once again consider Forrest Fenn’s physical abilities. He does not smoke, and does not eat meat. He has lived in the wide open west since the 30’s. I would venture to say he was in very good shape even after his battle with cancer.

      This is taking into account the rehab process and Forrest’s can do attitude.
      Now lets look at the clue. ” There’ll be no paddle up your creek ” What’s that saying to you? No worries I already have a meaning for it so what you might say is not too important to me. I am just curious about others thought processes in relationship to the poem.

      • Hi Chad, I read that Forrest’s favorite sandwich is a pastrami on rye. I’m curious where you read ‘he doesn’t eat meat.’

        • Someplace I recall reading he was a vegetarian. Thinking back there is a story in TOTC. Had to do with a buffalo roundup that went astray. I may need to reread it to clearfy.

      • Row, row, row your boat,
        Gently down the stream.
        Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
        Life is but a dream.

    • Here is a little about me, I provide this so others will hopefully understand my approach to the poem.

      I just marked my 60th birthday. I am disabled, diagnosis: Osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, and rheumatoid arthritis. Factory jobs will get ya every time lol.
      Will I be the person to find the chest? .. I have the same chance as everyone else does. Will I tell everyone if I find it? Not a chance in hades. Will I take it all if I find it? Man that is a tough one. But in the end I do not think I would. After all what fun would it be to end the great adventures people are having looking for the chest?
      So there you all have it a little insight into this ole arm chair treasure hunters mind.

      Best wishes to all.

  45. ” There’ll be no paddle up your creek ” What’s that saying to you?

    To me it is a dry wash, arroyo, or draw. Until recently this had me at an area called Diablo Canyon north of Santa Fe, across the Rio Grande from White Rock. But when FF indicated that his special place was in a forrest he eliminated most of my special places to search for the box. There are still other things to search for. Like indian ruins and petroglyphs.
    There are plenty of dry creeks in NM in the forrest for me to look around.

    I too am disabled. My right leg was amputated a year and a half ago. I had gone barefoot in the Jemez river under the waterfall at soda dam, playing and sort of searching, when I got small cuts on my feet. But I got a new leg and life goes on.
    Then in September I was sitting on my motorcycle, waiting for an ambulance to pass in front of me. The driver in back of me did not stop, not at all, ever. Fortunately for me the ambulance was right there and took me directly to the hospital. X-rays showed a compressed T-12 vertabra. I was given a back brace and a bottle of pills and sent home to rest in pain. What really hurt was that I don’t have a motorcycle to ride anymore. That’s my sob story, (que violins)
    Finding the box will get me back on a bike, or trike, or sidecar rig…. and I won’t be up a creek without a paddle anymore.

    • Glad you are still able to get out and search. Lets hope the joker comes up in our favor. lets see. four cards… no pairs, no suits. and my joker is still dancing around, wish he would make up his mind.

      Meh us ole biker types never die, we just ride off into the sunset through the desert.
      Wden your view of the phrase. Think…. logic and reasoning…..
      There is a second hint hidden in plain sight.

        • He also said he would vote for spankings. Just one more reason to double the undies..

      • Chad-
        I’ve watched Forrest devour burgers and all manner of cuts of beef. He eats meat just fine. He is a lifelong hunter/fisher. In fact there is/was a pastrami sandwich named for him at the Loretto…

        • I love meat. I have to pay attention not to eat too much of it sometimes. Brazilian barbeque restaurants serve a LOT of meat. The older I get the less I go there.

          Here in Utah…particularly SLC…we have quite a few burger joints that serve burgers with a heaping pile of pastrami inside. I heard that we eat more pastrami per capita than anywhere else just because of that. I don’t know if that’s still true or not. I know that I eat 2 or 3 per month on average.

          I love animals…but if God didn’t want us to eat some of them then why did He make them out of meat? 🙂 I hope that’s not offensive to anyone…honestly. I don’t mean it to be. I can honestly say that I wouldn’t be here today if my ancestors didn’t eat meat…and I can show you my canine teeth to prove it! 🙂

  46. Forrest talks about black and white a lot. There’s the armistice painting donated to the Scott White hospital. I wonder if the chest isn’t near a catholic nunnery. Nuns could factor into this chase somehow.

  47. Dal ?

    Forrest mentions his dad’s funeral and a church. Do you know if his upbringing had any catholic influence.

    • Ed-
      I do not..but it seems to me that he was brought up Southern Baptist…but I don’t know how much religious sway there was in his family. It appears not to be much. On the other hand, his dad was Secretary at a YMCA in TX for awhile. I suspect one had to show some Christian values and associations in order to have that job. I have not heard him mention church much. I think his interest in Catholicism is principally due to the early Catholic influence and explorations in the west. In the SW it is very hard to separate early recorded history from religion because the church sponsored so many missions, explorations and their influence was practically boundless. They also kept impeccable records of the people, their travels and their adventures which still exist.

        • Although Catechism played a roll in the exploration of the west this just does not feel right within the context of the chase.

          According to:

          indulgence: something that is done or enjoyed as a special pleasure.
          As we all are aware Forrest loves to collect things. Imho the chest was adopted as the repository for some of his prized collection. ( Think of the bracelet )

          Now this may be an overly simplified view. Only time will tell in this matter.

          • Hmm interesting very different meanings. Indulgences draw on the Treasury of Merit accumulated by Christ’s superabundantly meritorious sacrifice on the cross and the virtues and penances of the saints.

  48. My 2 sense:

    The person who solves the clues will walk to the treasure f (in other words: if you the searcher can figure out my imagination you can find my treasure) I say this so no searchers are under any illusion. (Solving this poem is a Herculean task)

    Let’s analyze this statement/pull it into a tighter focus.

    Clues are anything that gets a person closer to the chest. I think all would agree.

    However the clues are from the perspective of Forrest Fenn (Imagination) if I said the treasure is hidden at xy or z it would be clues I had assembled through imaginative thinking.


    “Imagination is more important than knowlege.” If I had spelled that last word correctly it would not have had the profundity of meaning I wanted. To misspell the word emphasized my point that having knowledge is, in fact, not as important as being resourceful. Also, when I make a mistake through ignorance that ploy gives me a degree of deniability that I routinely need.

    • I forgot one VERY important thing, ALWAYS have fun on the chase. Don’t allow yourself to lose focus in life. I think the real message is this; if you can’t smell the sunshine it’s probably time to hang it up. Good day to all.


  49. Dal, we anxiously await your profundity in part III of
    the Carl-fun-ditty.

    Turn off spell check. Live the pro-Fenn philosophy…bump the grammar curbs. Mispeeled words will provide hours of slicing and dicing potential hints. 😉

    Thanks Forrest for joy in adventure, and Dal for an excellent venue.

  50. Ed, my 2cents (opinion) regarding ‘indulgence’: given Forrest’s comment about not being ‘religious’ and his parents apparent Protestant background, I doubt he holds to older Catholic teachings on the necessity of buying indulgences towards forgiveness. Just guessing the dictionary definition is closer.

    My take on the difference between religion and spirituality is that many organized religions are simply man’s ideas about God and man’s rules for following Him rather than love for the Creator and belief that Christ’s life sets people free. Philosophically, if this premise is true then Jesus made the great trade – his life for ours – and no indulgence must be paid on our part. It was a gift which only needs to be embraced, not paid for.

    Similarly, in that respect Forrest also gave his very best inside the treasure chest as a gift to all who seek it and believe it exists. Whether Forrest meant it as a metaphor for faith and as a gift of grace, only he can answer. But gift it is!

    • I agree just a little confusing. In my war for me he makes a deal with the spot that he’d return. In a strange sort of way it seems like when he got cancer maybe another deal was made over the chest. So in a way it would be a sacrificial item. This of course is highly speculative thinking. The part about Catholics, indulgence and Christ is interesting. They seem to have phased out the indulgence part but man still needs a priest or the pope. Although purgatory remains…the idea that a second chance is possible.

      • Ed, in the end I have no idea. Forrest is an eni?ma to me… most likely a genius; razor sharp wit; professes to be a very spiritual being, but carefully retains privacy on what that means as he declares it in a very public manner. Personally, I adhere to the belief that he hid indulgence with multi-faceted intentions… expose others to totc and great outdoors; possible deal with God; Clarion call against war; personal statement of peace with self and others; love for his family.

    • I would suggest that all new comers to the chase read all they can before posting.
      Dal has provided a lot of information which will aid one in getting up to speed in the various postings here.

      Welcome to the ” The Thrill of The Chase “

      • Hey Chad, thanks for your advice. Usually, Dal moderates. Btw I’m not a newcomer and have read every word on Dals website over the past year. Sorry if my post seems uninformed. Others post non related songs and material. Mine was in jest but at least ties in with Forrest’s Celtic ancestry and statement that the TC may have held a book of days.

        In the future I’ll try to be more on point. Here’s my relevant Hidey Spot clue. The poem indicates a hole in the wood. Do the math or go back and find Cognitos posts; people laughed him off but I listened and think he could have been f. There is truth in most jest.

        • My sincere apologies, you’re wonderful post seemed like the perfect opportunity to urge now comers to read and become more involved. Many thanks for your understanding.

          • No worries at all Chad. Nice of you to welcome any new comers. What state(s) do you search?

          • Well from my arm chair I am searching a section of Montana and wyoming.
            My area of interest has gotten me to ” there’ll be no paddle up your creek. ”
            Keeping an open mind and looking at various angles is yielding some interesting things to dwell on. I think your observation concerning the hole in the wood has just filled a small gap for me. Your area of interest?

            Oh btw yes Forrest has put a book of days in the chest. It is his biography. If as I suspect it may be unpublished and Forrest’s comment ( I give you title to the gold ) may be a legal form of conveying permission to the finder to publish it…..


        • I clearly need an editor, or a few pain free days :/ I agree, there is several persona’s of FF. Some of which I am on the fence about. Only Forrest knows and he ain’t talking.

  51. Chad, Ive searched Wyoming and may move further north into an area of Montana if I can complete my solution. No paddle up your creek is an interesting line. Metaphorically, it could mean at the T/cross h.ere/before EL/The Creator there will be no punishment. Physically I believe it’s on point, meaning you will not paddle up a creek because it’s a dry draw or you travel down the path. Historically it could be a reference to Lewis and Clark changing their paddles into wooden saddles to portage. Beyond those, I’m still working and wide open to others opinions.

    How about your interpretation of the line?

    • I think you and I are on the same page… Ummmm..
      I will say this . If I can not paddle up a creek, what’s left for me to do?
      Catch my drift? Do you live near that area? I am in Mi.
      If you search and find my email within this blog feel free to msg me.
      I have this feeling that we are on the same path.

    • IMO June never got paddled or switched so don’t change course or take the switchback

    • At first glance I didn’t think I would find this all that interesting.
      I couldn’t stop looking! This was well done and intriguing!
      Thanks for pointing it out. 🙂

    • Fun trip to the core of the earth Dal! I was surprised to see that I’ve been in the deepest metro station which is in Kiev, Ukraine!

  52. I was thinking about the “there’ll be no paddle up your creek” line, and exactly how miffed I would be should it be found directly under my nose, as I live on a road that just gives me a wicked smile when I think of this line in the poem. Once I realized the connection I revisited the rest of the poem to see if anything else might fall into place (as I believe most things will if you’ve found the right location). A surprising number of words/phrases/clues fit like perfect little puzzle pieces. Hmmm. I suppose I should check this weekend.

    • Don’t fret, that paddle line has caused concern for many searchers and there has been much discussion. It’s like trying to hold back a sneeze, you know it’s there and it’s on the way…sometimes it’s best to just go with it. IMHO.

      • “The poem is straightforward” has been stated multiple times by Forrest. Don’t over think it.

  53. Brea

    That’s exactly what will happen if u are at the right location. It will come together 🙂

    I knew I should have had a V8 3 years ago. 🙂 lol

    Good luck 🙂

  54. Forrest has said that people will be surprised at where the chest is hidden.
    I have a nice solve, just need to check something’s recently brought to my attention. Will my solve hold water so to speak? Idk, one question stands out in my mind. How do I pinpoint the exact location of the chests resting place?
    Which begs more questions. Logic and reasoning….

  55. After much study and consideration. I believe the treasure is hidden this way:

    “Brave and in the wood”

    Many have pondered this line. After much thinking I believe the treasure is covered up near a boulder. A hole near the side of a boulder leads underground with brush above hole “Brave and in the wood” 3 of something are in area trees/rocks with hole in the middle. The box is sealed in a shell or can buried roughly 2 feet deep. A smooth threshold stone marks the area.

    • Undercover,

      Brave and in the Wood: I don’t know why your “covered up near a boulder'” description seems so familiar, perhaps I have a similar solve somewhere in my mess of notes.

      Your mention of a hole near the side of a boulder leading to underground an covered by brush reminds me of the tunnel we discovered on a California Beach. Small opening covered by brush, crawled through hole and a tunnel led to the cliffs at the beach. It was used by the military during the war.

  56. Ummm been a long cold winter here in Mi, think a nice fishing trip would help
    to clear the cobwebs from my muddled mind.

  57. Dal,

    If the area where the chest is hidden becomes changed by flood (burying the chest in mud/debris), landslide, construction, etc., thereby making the chest inaccessible, do you think Forrest would advise all searchers so we could call off our searches?

    Is this something you could have Forrest comment on? One never knows when the landscape will change making it impossible to find the chest.

    Only Forrest would know if this were to happen.

    • Tarheel, interesting question. You could send him an email, or send it in over on Jenny’s blog. Who knows you might get an answer……Here’s my unrequested opinion for what it’s worth. Dal will probably chime in later.

      Fenn has said several times it’s out of his hands. So whatever happens, happens. It may not be found for a thousand years in that case. Remember this is about the “Thrill of the Chase”. If he came out and said something like you suggest think of all the people that wouldn’t get out into the wilderness and have the thrill of looking.

      Fenn also said in one interview when asked about searchers being stupid, that people shouldn’t have to be told everything. I think he means people are responsible for their actions, not him. Fenn comes from a generation that believes in personal responsibility. Folks reap the rewards or suffer the consequences of their actions.

      So if someone is spending their savings or charging up their credit cards or trying to cross a raging river on a thrown together raft or blow up bed it’s a bad decision on their part and not any fault of his…..I agree with him.

      • Hey! I resemble that remark! I can vouch for the high water crossing part too…I was both lucky and knew better, both of which contributed to my survival when crossing the San Miguel R. in April at well over 1200 CFS. Don’t do it!!

      • Very good points.

        I guess I ask because from time to time Forrest verifies the chest is still there. If it became inaccessible I would hope he would advise.

        Thanks for the honest point of view.

        Happy and safe searching.

      • Hi ya Goofy,
        Imho Forrest’s hidey spot is not what people are thinking it is.
        It is not buried, perhaps covered though. Could be affected by natural events, such as earthquakes, forest fires, rock slides and flooding.

        I suspect that it is subject to the whims of the seasons and weather conditions.
        As Forrest said: in a word is key. to find the key is the trick. 😉

          • Hi Suzie,
            In a manner of speaking yes. When it snows it will be covered. If it rains it will get wet. Now a question in my mind is how long will it stay wet? I have this train of thought that I am keeping to myself atm. Waiting for that flash of insight that says it is here. When that happens I am off and running.

          • Maybe he meant “the treasure chest is whet”

            Whet: “a thing that stimulates appetite or desire”

      • Suzie,

        I am assuming he may periodically check on the chest to verify it is still there and would see any changes.

        But you know what they say about “assume”.

        I guess this whole thing is about assumptions.
        We assume he really hid the chest.
        We assume our solve is the correct one.
        We assume we will recognize the clues.
        We assume we will be the one to find it.

        I could go on and on.

        I think this whole thing is more about trust though.

  58. I went back and listened to the Moby Dickens book shop video. f says at one point “which is best, laying on the ground on a treasure chest, your bones rotting in the sun, or laying in a hospital room with tubes down your throat and your nose, and machines everywhere, and people running in watching you all the time?”

    I like finding statements like this. Maybe f is just randomly making it up, but for all the planning and thought he put into ending his life like that and the way it rolls out his mouth, I lean toward it not being a random fictional statement. The chest will be there waiting for you… on the ground in the sun.

      • I look at the buried scenario as such…

        But as you frisk and refrisk the poem for its meaning, keep a few more clues in mind: some people have suggested the treasure is under water, plopped in a river where Fenn loved to fish or swim. They are wrong, I know, for in a moment of exuberance, Fenn said so. He told me the chest is “exposed” to rain and snow, and could be scorched in a forest fire. He told me the box, which is just 10 inches by 10 inches, is unlocked—suggesting it’s someplace where it is unlikely to be toppled or otherwise thrown open.

        f has also said that it is a place his bones could rest for a few millennia. If f thinks his bones can rot in the sun for that long without being found, why bother with burying it.

        And then there is also f’s statement about a person being within 12 feet of the tc and finding it.

        There are a few more statements as well, but I will not bother with them for now.

        For me, enough has been said to logically convince me that it is not buried… I could go for partially covered.

        • Great article! I had never read that one before.
          I’m sure we all have our own interpretation of where we think the chest may be.
          Paraphrasing here but, “Not buried, but hidden… that’s not to say it isn’t buried”… I think I get that.
          Thanks JCM.

        • I’m not saying one way or another on whether it is buried or not, …..I like to keep all options open. When/if one finds it, … is what it is.

          Why bother burying it? I don’t know, …..Just trying to imagine a place that secluded his bones could rest so long undisturbed, yet somewhere also that people have been so close to the chest already and who continually arrive there and also close enough for him to be able to walk there from where he parked?? But then again, who knows how credible Tony is with his second hand info?

          I don’t see how the 12ft thing changes any of it. Heck, he could have been talking about the blaze for all we know?

          It can still be scorched and be buried. 🙂

  59. Please forgive me as I’m very new to this, but I’m wondering how much discussion has taken place surrounding the claims of how close some have come to the location of the treasure. I have some questions.

    First, do we know if he has triangulated the exact location of the treasure? I would assume he knows the latitude/longitude of exactly where the treasure is – its exact geographical location.

    That being said, did people who were “close” to it also submit their location in this format? Is that how he determined how close they were? To state 200 ft, 500ft just seems really…exact to me. Almost too exact.

    The reason I ask is that the approximations given sound quite precise, particularly for something that sounds as if it is in a remote locale. Or, are there perhaps pretty distinctive landmarks nearby that indicate how close these searchers were? Perhaps there are…might be something else to consider in the search. I don’t know this – just a hunch- but without knowing how he determined how close these folks were, then perhaps it could be true that it was identified by some pretty distinctive landmarks in the area. It is one thing to say “I overturned a rock in the valley and looked beneath but nope, didn’t find anything.” In the Rockies, that is like every foot, lol. But to say “I turned over a rock with a [insert distinctive qualitty to it] and looked underneath…” is a little different.

    • Everyone or most everyone I should say are taking ff’s word of distance as in “linear” feet… I think that’s the wrong assumption. I tend to lean toward “feet in elevation” like possible a few others do. Why? You may ask. Time will tell!

    • I agree, I think his comments are significant. I can see tents 500 feet below my spot on google earth. People walk under it all the time during the summer months, I imagine. Perhaps some people also hiked up to just 200 feet below the spot in their search of the area and camped and were also photographed. I didn’t search the entire area for tents, but they could be there as well. Just a thought. I know what we think he’s said about using google earth, but he did recommend “the poem, google earth and/or a good map” as all one needs to solve it, right?

  60. Correct me if I’m wrong here but I don’t think so. These are paraphrases of F.

    I do not track this chase and have no way of knowing how close searchers have been to the treasure.

    I have not gone back to the spot since I hid the treasure.

    No one has found the treasure yet but I can’t tell you how I know that.

    Logically we can only conclude one thing. Forrest has hid the treasure so well that it’s close to impossible to locate, hence his high degree of confidence. Go out, have fun and let the things you see and experience along the way be the treasure you find.

  61. Hello all. I came to this particular site because I felt the serious folks would be here. Please consider this a plea to the experts and vet my solve when you get a chance? If I’ve made all this up in my head over the last couple of weeks, I’d really like to know about it so I can make an appointment with my therapist to up my meds.

    On topic, my facebook wall has my solve complete with precise gps coordinates and google earth screen shots of the shadow man and where I believe the chest’s hidey hole is. There are 11 posts, and I apologize for them being out of order, but they are numbered. Some pics are in the comments rather than the actual posts, so if you’re on a mobile device, you’ll need to see the comments for many of the photos.

    Again, apologies, and I sincerely ask those who have spent significant time on this hunt to take 15 minutes to vet my solve (It’s not short, sorry) and post their thoughts here? I thought I’d get some closure by posting my solve, but somehow I’m now even more curious than before… I’m looking for some good reasons to let this go, honestly, so please, tear it apart?

    I very much appreciate your time.

  62. Bart, I’m interested in looking at it, but I don’t use fb, too old, cant figure it out, too much nonsense to wade thru and I already have 1 foot in the crypt. But i’m pretty good at gnawing on a bone and I’ve been on this one from the start. I used the co-ords on GE that you gave earlier on this thread, but my GE loses fidelity at its lowest altitude, just before it autmatically switches to a ‘street view’ which is useless for this task… my computer is old, do newer versions of GE have better telescopic fidelity? Are these the correct co-ords? 39*30’56.66″ N, 106*28’10.68 W. Thanks.

    • Also, I’d like to know how you linked the poems clues (whatever you think the clues are) to the ground sites. Your statements seemed pretty confident, so logical linkage is important. If you are just having dreams and visions… get to that therapist soon.

      • at an elevation of 10,095 feet: 39*30’56.66″N 106*28’10.68″W, yes.

        About the therapist…that’s why I’m here. Take a look and give me your unvarnished opinion, please. I understand about fb, but I can’t post the google earth photos here along with my solve, and it seems like my every post here awaits moderation for 6-8 hours and not all of them get posted or they get pulled shortly after. I never know which will make it and which won’t. FB is easy enough to sign up for if you have an email account. You don’t even need to use your real name. Not that I’m a proponent of fb. I have 19 friends.

  63. Here’s an example for non-facebook folks. From wwwh (NM border) we travel into “the mountains north of Santa Fe” to a point exactly 265 miles (the number of gold coins, because with his treasures bold he keeps his secret where) due north of santa fe. There, we find Ten Mile Peak in Colorado (too far to walk is 10 miles). We put in below the home of Brown right there (Buffalo Mountain), and there is Dillon Reservoir (water high), uncannily shaped like the shadow man on the map in the book., only reversed with no staff/shovel. That is the blaze. If you’ve found it, look quickly down, your quest 2 c’s. Zoom in on the area: Clear Creek county. So now we begin it again with Dillon Reservoir as wwwh to narrow the area further. That’s the first part of the solve. If you think that’s nuts, there’s no need to read any more of it because later on I find the shadow man again in the shadows of the morning sun (If you’ve been wise = early to bed, early to rise makes a man healthy wealthy and wise) in the valley of Cross Creek next to the ridges new and old (the ridgeline formed by New York Mountain and Gold Dust Peak). Setting the sun angle can’t be done in google maps. You’ll need google earth for that. Unless you’re a pilot and have actually gotten up early to fly over the area to view it live (like Mr. Fenn probably has, many times).

    • Why not, I’ll post the basics here. Step 2: From DR, we take it in the canyon down along Ten Mile Creek and put in below the home of Brown (The Eagle’s Nest). We take Gondola One (Gonealone) up to the top of that ski resort (snow place for the meek) to the nest to view the Mount of the Holy Cross, snow being water high and the lift being heavy loads. See the trail names there for further confirmation (Young Brave, In The Wood, etc) The blaze is the cross on the Mount of the holy cross as viewed from the nest. Look quickly down, your quest: 2 c’s. Draw a line between the two points and zoom in on the lowest elevation point on that line and we find Cross Creek and the Cross Creek Trail Head along Highway 24 in Minturn, CO. Now we’ve narrowed the search further. Begin it again at Cross Creek to narrow further.

      • Step 3:

        Follow Cross Creek down below Buffalo Lake (5 miles, a 10 mile round trip, too far to walk) and you’ll see that the creek actually looks like an “N” below that home of Brown. Put in below Buffalo Lake up East Cross Creek to the Bowl of Tears (water high). Now. We’ve passed it once by this point. 😉 Zoom out to view the entire valley and the ridges new and old and move the sun to dawn. There’s the shadow man again, reversed again. Ignore the fact that he’s put down his staff (the ridgeline of new and old) and turned the other way to now hold the opposite ridgeline as a shovel because he’s finally at the spot with the blade pointing directly at Savage Peak, which is a perfect X. And you’ll see that he’s pushing the blade down toward Savage Peak. Ignore that. Search his heart. If you zoom in there, you see an f shaped portion of Cross Creek in a lush meadow. Search well and you find a blaze in the shape of the odd J in “Just take the chest…” It’s not a normal capital J like the rest of the poem. Looking further, moving up in elevation in this spot another 600 feet, at an elevation of 10,095 feet we find mr. Fenn’s Rainbow (a multicolored line painted on the ground to warn away folks from the edge of the crumbling cliff) at the end of which is the treasure, according to the line above the poem in the book, and sure enough reading the poem like a child confirms this as the spot. “If you are brave and in the wood” = I view a rebr (river) a “ve” and “N” it hewd). Next to the cave, we see the ve and the N hewed into the rock. “I give you title to the gold” = Ig (egg) I viewed it leFt oF the egol(d), once we add his initials. And there, left of the eagle, you see the end of the rainbow and a white marble case in the shape of an egg with a fern for a nest is there. Using the poems code on Forrest Fenn, we get: “For Nest, Fern.” I believe whatever Mr. Fenn has left, it is in or under that rock.

        I have left out soooo much just to condense it down to this, but there it is, in a nutshell.

        • Probably one of the best thought out solves I’ve read.
          I’m guessing from the date of it that the chest wasn’t there, but I really like the ‘circles within circles’ approach 🙂

    • Bart, your solve is clear in aspects, but your entire solve is based off of the number 265. There are other specific numbers throughout the book. Especially the 4 & 23 that he links to his fathers grave. I feel like that number might mean a bit more, There have been interviews in which FF stated that there were 225 or 235 Gold Coins in the chest. You might be off by 30 or 40 miles.

  64. I personally believe that the reason Mr. Fenn will not narrow the search down from private, tribal, or public land is because it is all three at once. It is tribal land by rights that became public land that Mr. Fenn has now purchased a small parcel of, that being the cave cliff area for his interment.

    • If the chest is hidden in the same place f wanted to pass away and remain, won’t the location be known to everyone if the chest is found? Just seems creepy and illogical if it is on public land. So maybe it is on private property of some sort?

      Where would it be appropriate to have your remains rest in peace (if not ashes)? f did indicate he thought about walking to this location to die, correct? Maybe resting in peace is not the idea.

      I am confused.

      • A camp fire pit. Maybe that is the reason he laughed. It would be scorched there and a wind would bother it. You gaze at a fire. He uses Forrest Fire as name. He said to go camping with the bedroll. Maybe an old campground for scouts.

      • Uken2it… Yep maybe some private property of some sort… But, it would have to be someplace we could search without getting in trouble… So where can you search in the Rocky Mountains that is private yet open to people searching????

      • Being unable to recall what Forrest had said about lying on the chest totally. at this moment. I have been of the mind set that the hidey place is off of the beaten path. I do recall that he said that people will be surprised when it is found.

        In my mind I see a trail from a parking area leading about 200 yards or so to the hidey place. Which means that some time was taken to conceal the chest.

  65. Bart,

    I read where you said your posts were in moderation and some were deleted. If you don’t state that the post is your opinion, there is a good chance Goofy will kill it.

    My thoughts on your solve. All my opinion, of course.

    You put a lot of thought into this and you are obviously very smart. This is probably the most detail solve posted. Thanks for putting it out there for us to view.

    IMO –

    I was convinced your solve is flawed when you mentioned using the number of coins to calculate your starting point.

    Fenn has said that all you need is the poem and a good map. He has also said the poem is straight forward (show it to a child). Since the poem does not reveal the size, weight, or contents of the chest, I find it hard to accept we should use the contents in the solve; in your case, just part of the contents.

    I do think it is possible you might be in the right area. I just don’t believe you get there by using the number of coins.

    Skipping to the end –

    I’ve looked at were you think the chest may rest and I don’t think an 80 year old man could make that journey.

    Best of luck to you,

    Scott W.

    • 🙂 Q1Werty2,

      .” Since the poem does not reveal the size, weight, or contents of the chest,”

      IMO- proper disclaimer

      Poem Line # 18

      And leave my trove for all to seek ?

      & left my Trove 4 all 2 Seek ?

      Just take the Chest — poem line # 16

      Chest 42 [pounds not Troy]

      Secret — poem line # 3

      Treasures — poem line # 2

      Trove 4 … 2

      Seek ?

      & Hint of Riches poem line # 4.

      L IS TEN poem line # 21, 50 is 10, 51 S 10

      The poem can contain weight & contents of the chest !!!!
      ff has stated that there is indeed a SECRET ITEM within the chest.
      ff has stated that the chest weighs 42 [44 once] pounds.
      ff has stated the size is 10 inches in relation to the chest

      I see where 42 associated with the trove, and trove is associated with treasures, and chest is associated with trove & what 1 is SEEKing, treasures, a hint of riches poem line #4.

      So poem does reveal weight 42 lbs & Secret item within chest.

      I can keep my secret (item) where — in the chest.

      The above may be taken as a opinion possibility…ie not an author certainity at this time.

      The poem can be read/red straight forward, locked clues don’t have to be red/read this way to unlock them only a KEY is required.

      🙂 The Golf C&CS, FOUR FORE 4 🙂
      🙂 Match, Strike, Spark, Blaze, Fire, Light 🙂

      • IWGOLF –

        I know there are a lot of folks out there who take the same or similar approach that you describe.

        Cryptograms, numerology, matrices, etc.

        IMO – a child will not be able to solve the poem using those methodologies. I may be wrong.

        However, I do respect every approach, and I read and try to appreciate those approaches. I just don’t subscribe to it – yet anyway. 🙂

        Scott W

        • 🙂 Q1wertY2,

          Thanks for your wonderful & honest comments.

          A couple of thoughts concerning theses comments,

          1st would be that in my opinion, i do not rule on what a child can or cannot do.
          In a another contest a child [legal definition under 18 years old] named Mark from Illinois did indeed solve ATT Pook mushrooms using a Polybius Square.
          I heard on the news that a 11 year old just Graduated from American River College.

          My approach to this contest is Logic: Deductive Reasoning
          that results in 1 certain conclusion [which excludes all other possibilities]

          Based on this approach and that ff has stated that the “finder” will “know” solution prior to any Travel, I have yet to travel at all.

          Clues are the material or data to which we are given to work with,
          ff uses deductive reasoning many times. Ruling out various things, from States, to Elevations, graveyards, to Riddles & Codes & Ciphers, etc.
          TTOTC dust jacket says the Clues are Locked. A KEY is used to unlock locks.
          Quote from Charles Garrett “THRILL of DISCOVERY” is my KEY interpretation of TTOTC.
          So the important possibility to discover is the key that unlocks the these locked clues, my earlier example of “42” was straight forward trying to unlock clues by Sound or Letter Meaning-not code or by expanding secret to include a mystery item in the chest.

          The Clues, what they are or aren’t, is the lynch pin of this puzzle.
          Without ff TFTW book, would anyone know where this is or how far this is, based on poem line #7 “Not far, but too far to walk ” 10 miles Madison River…maybe with 9 Mile Hole & Hebgen Lake [follow Madison River emptys into such] & baker story of walking to school [Bakers Campground] only ** ff definition of a Clue and how it is locked is his knowledge.

          I don’t limit what a Clue can be, ff rule things out always helps, but i follow the concept that the Clues are Locked & i need a Key to Unlock them.

          Book debut OCTxx 2010,
          all of 2011,
          all of 2012,
          all of 2013,
          all of 2014,
          number of days in 2015, 5/23/2015.
          Total all the days counting up till it is found, will this contest last 10k years ?
          This is day x,xxx of the ff unsolved puzzle & unfound secret treasure trove chest.

          IMO – post disclaimer

          As far as contents in the Chest
          poem line # 24 last word “gold”
          20.2 troy pounds, in 255/265 coins, nuggets, etc.
          photo shopped double image page 131 coin pile image, front cover single coin pile
          Eagles Double Eagles etc
          page 126 & back dust cover = Chest & Coins & Gold….
          chest & gold in poem.

          ff use book to help with poem….

          🙂 The Golf C&CS 🙂
          🙂 Respect to All 🙂

  66. My first impression is, WOW! Some of that is really interesting and creative. But some is just soooo thin. Your first step is foundational, that 265 gold coins = 265 miles. But that seems more an outta-the-blue hunch than a deduction from the book or the poem. So, as clever as some of the other links are are, I can’t buy it. Give me some confidence-building reason to believe that the number of coins equals miles. Many numbered things could be chosen, and it could be miles, or chains, or paces, etc. I like the clever associations, but not hunches.
    I sometimes think when Fenn said “And with my treasures bold” … he didn’t mean this gold and jewels, he meant his thesaurus.

    • @OS, @BartKay – no, but 265 is significant for another very specific reason. Dig deeper! #GoodLuck

  67. Thanks all. I hope it was at least entertaining. I’ll leave it there for awhile in case anyone wants to use part of it or anything. I don’t really use fb anyway. With his treasures bold, he keeps his secret where. The only thing numbered in the chest is the coins. I just viewed it as a gentle nudge in the right direction. It’s not necessary to use this 265 thing to get to Dillon Reservoir as the shadowman blaze, but it did help. Not sure I’d have ever zoomed in on the area enough to associate the lake shape if I hadn’t found Ten Mile Peak there (assuming we’re supposed to associate the shape in the first place, of course). As we all know, there are 9 and 10 mile everythings and homes of brown are wherever you find them, it seems, and canyons and creeks everywhere. Something is going to have to make the right ones stand apart. Such as a blaze.

    As for the moderation, perhaps some moderation is in order in our moderating. I get that people don’t want to hear that someone else knows that they’re right, but eventually, someone will be and I would want to hear from that person rather than muzzle them. I posted a perfect question for Mr. Fenn, and it was never posted or pulled immediately. Same with my original post here. If someone hadn’t replied to it, I’d have never known it even got posted. Now that I understand that we’re all censored, here, I’ll take my leave. I don’t like it that someone here gets to read all the posts and then decide what he wants to pass on to us. No offense, personal preference. I wish you all well and I hope that you find what you’re looking for.

    • Bart, it was good work overall, Better than some that have been on here. keep trying, but watch for the leaps of faith.

  68. Not really “censored”, but there are rules. The biggest rule is that if it is not a quotable fact, you should, just place a “IMO” to be safe. The other is language. That’s about it.

    Oh yeah! … and stay on topic. As described in each posting area. Which I am not doing right now. 🙂

    That’s it!


  69. I hope that when someone finds the treasure chest, they (can/will/remember to) take a panoramic photo of the location. I think everyone would love to see the area. I realize there any number of reasons the location is special to Forrest not necessarily that it’s a beautiful place but being in the Rocky Mountains I’m sure it is a beautiful place.

  70. What if? What if this whole quest is really a ruse? What if Mr. Fenn is himself looking for a nice hidey space to rest his weary bones, and he used the poem to dispatch 30,000+ searchers to find a beautiful destination for him? Hehe.

    With everyone sending him photos and GPS coordinates, he’ll have a lot of beautiful places to choose from.

    I’m not REALLY suggesting the poem is a hoax. I just imagine Mr. Fenn getting all these emails and thinking to himself “That’s a nice spot. I need to go there!”

  71. Lois, you may enjoy listening to the latest Santa Fe radio interview with Forrest. He says, “I guarantee the treasure chest is out there.”

    Dal has provided a link on the media page.

  72. all,

    Dal has taken my video of my solutions “Hidey space” and given me a URL of it.

    this spot had my “peace” sign petroglyph (which can be viewed in page nine photos) it was a very peaceful spot with tall grass and enclosed within a small ravine with sage brush, pinon pine trees and several petroglyphs.

    thanks Dal !


    • That’s a nice and serene spot you found there, Seannm. I’d be tempted to sit down with a book and take a nap.

    • Sean, thanks for posting your petroglyph video. It looks like the type of canyon and rock ledge a bronze chest would rest in – while Forrest drinks ice tea nearby in his folding chair.

      • Sean,
        The first thing that stands out to me were a couple of faces in the rocks. Anybody else see the same?

    • thanks for the quick video Sean. I needed to see a pinon pine to compare to a tree in the background of a family camping trip photo I found online. They were in Montana, interestingly enough.

      But, please do not let that dissuade you from searching in NM.

  73. Didn’t Forrest say he built a plaster cast of Kelly and Zoe?

    Is it possible he sealed the chest in a tin can and then plaster casted around the can? Problem is he made two trips to the spot. Or could he have done it on site possibly?

  74. plaster… Really? I hardly think something casted in plaster will last a hundred years…

  75. This has me stumped. Pun? Maybe.
    In the wood. Is it? Or is it in terra? Stone? So many avenues, but there’s only one….
    think diggins, think!

  76. If you buried a treasure I think you’d be more likely to say “I don’t want to say if it’s buried or not”. If you hid a treasure without burying it I think you’d be more likely to say “It’s hidden, not buried”. Agree?

    Now if you just covered it with foliage I’d call that hidden, but if you put it in a small depression that you didn’t dig and you covered it with stones would you call that buried? Entombed?

    • Part of the art of concealment is in description. Now if you do not want something found would you say if it was buried or hidden? No, you would try to use your answer to aid in the concealment. There are certain things that Forrest has said that leads me to think he has hidden the chest under something. What he may have hidden it under I will not say.

      Burying it does not feel right to me.

      • Chad I do agree in part that concealment is aided by description but I still think my analysis has some value. F has said many things about the location which he need not have – think vegetation, view, accesibility. Why should the wording of hidden/burried be any different?

        It’s a shame there is so little discussion here. Perhaps I should have ignored the guidelines and posted under “Nine clues” like everyone else does. I think the “Most Recent Comments” links encourage poor submissions. It could be “Most recently commented sections”.

        • Pacman, I agree this is a good discussion page that doesn’t get enough attention. And you’re right people seem to just throw everything into the nine clues page. Then again, the nine clues topic does cover a lot of ground so I can see why they would.

          There have been people here for a long time that I don’t think have even looked at the other discussion pages. Thanks for reviving the page, maybe others will contribute to this page.

          I don’t understand what you are saying about the “most recent comments” encourage poor submissions…….Are you saying we should call it something else or it’s poorly worded?

        • I am aware of Forrest’s comments regarding the hidey place. In my mind there is several constituents to the solve. I view the poem as a tabletop puzzle. Each piece looks to fit this way but only fits properly when looked at in conjunction with several others. Now as for vegetation, imho the hidey place is possibly in a forested setting, may not be recognised as a forest proper. None the less it has a decent number of trees. As of late I have not had much time to focus my mind on the chase. Yet it remains in the back of my mind awaiting that ahh haaa moment.

    • Now this is a possibility, considering Forrest’s reference to a Frenchmans headstone in the jungles of Nam.

  77. So the lastest is, its not in a mine because a mine could house rattlesnakes and black widows. So maybe deep caves are out of the question too.
    No mines and deep caves…check.

  78. “You have your brush, you have your colors, you paint paradise, then in you go.” (Nikos Kazantzakis)

    Don’t you think that’s what Forrest has done?

  79. For some reason I have had this feeling that recently a number of people have been in the area of the chest. ” Pardon the saying ” And missed it by that much.
    ( holds finger and thumb an inch apart ) Something Forrest said in an interview
    has stuck with me. I keep getting a picture of the hidey place as a creek bed.

  80. Ever staked off 3 points on a map? Well now might be a good time to make your claim. Ho ho ho matey I think there might be an X after all. Better get out thee old shoveler. So long swashbucklers hope the high seas are treating you mighty fine.

    • “When a thing beckons you to explore it without telling you why or how,
      this is not a red herring; it’s a map.”
      ― Gina Greenlee, Postcards and Pearls: Life Lessons from Solo Moments on the Road

  81. Now, who could possibly resist hiding a treasure in a quartz/amethyst lined hole? (not sure I can post a picture here, trying to ctrl

  82. here is a question worthy of preponderance; Is the home of Brown part of the canyon down?

    • Chad, So are you saying you pass the home of Brown on your trip down the canyon… Or the whole canyon is the home of Brown in a sense? Then you put in below it or in it.. From there its no place for the meek… The end is ever drawing nigh… No paddle up your creek… Just heavy loads and water high… Definitely something to think about… I like it Thanks 🙂

      • The feel of it is for me. The home of Brown may be part of the canyon down.
        Yes one might pass it as they are going down the canyon. I do not think it is the whole canyon. just a particular spot known for something Named Brown.

  83. I was wondering (after reading about Forrest finding undisturbed indian artifacts in a difficult-to-spot “cave”) if “treasures old” might refer to just that–indian artifacts he found in the “cave” and left there, undisturbed.

    Then I read that the area I’m researching was an area where numerous tribes travelled seasonally to hunt and gather stone for tools….and THEY DIDN’T ALL GET ALONG (you shot my buffalo ! ).

    So tribes may well have been “keeping a lookout” for one another, and very well my have sought lookout sites that were well hidden.

    My study site is positioned to view a valley leading down from a pass that Indians used to cross between river basins.

    After all, it is wise to keep a lookout. 🙂

  84. this would make it a truly special place; a view, historic artifacts, secluded

    a place worth returning to. alone.

    • I have had this same theory, and previously posted that the hiding spot might be the “unknown” finding place of the Fenn Clovis Cache believed to have been found in a cave near the Idaho, Utah, and Wyoming borders in 1902.

      Scott W.

  85. I see this in my mind. A cave overlooking a valley; the valley heads in a pass to the adjacent river basin. The cave was used by Indians to keep watch for game and potential adversaries crossing the pass. The bones of a revered indian chief lie there, with precious artifacts. There is a hole in the cave wall; there is something shiny in it.

    I do have in mind a spot where this is possible.


    1. The chest is hidden at 6400 ft. elevation.

    2. TFTW is 2.42 miles down a canyon and 4.24 miles up a road from a major highway.

    3. There are 166 words in the poem because of a well known peak’s elevation mirrors those numbers.

    4. The poem solves to MT, the Treasure State and to a second mirror location in NM.

    When I sent Forrest a photo of a very specific place matching his poem he emailed me stating,
    “I must admit, you leave me speechless.”

    Since his confirmed & standard response to searchers is different what was he saying???

  87. I am kind of knew to the Chase, but this is one answer that Mr. Fenn gave to a question on Jenyy Kile’s site that baffles me. If the answer is no, why would it be questioned? If it was yes, he could say that and not say what it was.

    Forrest, You said you made two trips from your car to hide the treasure. Besides walking, did you use any other methods of transportation to get back and forth between the car and the hide? Thanks, Edgar

    Edgar, your wording of the question prompts me to pause and wonder if I can answer it candidly, yet correctly. Were all the evidence truly known, and I answered in the positive, you might say I was prevaricating, by some definitions of the word. And if I answered in the negative, you may claim that I was quibbling. So I will stay quiet on that subject. Thanks for the question anyway. f

    • The irony could be that his answer is itself is a prevarication designed to deflect the quibbling between wading/hiking/trotting/skipping/running.. and walking.

      I assume he did at least one of those others in addition to plain old walking.

    • how about this? the poem describes one way to the chest, but you can also just drive right to it, which perhaps is what Forrest did the day he hid it. The “poem path” may involve something other than just driving and walking.

        • not with Edgar’s “wording of the question”….which was “did YOU use any other form of transportation to get back and forth between the car and the hide”.

          and Forrest prefaced his response with “were all the evidence truly known”

          To me this suggests he used an alternate route for the actual hide trip, and the clues describe a route that would use an alternate form of locomotion.

        • Well, I will attempt to explain why this does not confuse me. However, there is a big assumption here–the poem describes using OT [other transportation], but, knowing where that takes you, you can also just drive there.

          Also, assume Forrest took the “easy way” (driving only). If he said “yes” he is prevaricating, because he didn’t. If he said “no” he is quibbling in the sense that he had to take that route first (actually, or perhaps, virtually) in order to craft the DIRECTIONS.

          And here his choice of words works pretty well. Prevaricating can be not telling the truth by leaving out an important relevant fact (the poem describes using OT). Quibbling is confusing the issue by answering the question strictly as asked– “did you” (on the hide trip)–while ignoring the actual INTENT (spirit) of the question.

          REPEAT: this requires an assumption I made

    • I think you guys are over thinking it. Forrest tells us that he doesn’t lie so that rules out one of those answers. But if the truth was that he did use a horse, boat, ATV, etc than that would be additional information or a clue/hint. He has typically made it a policy, recently, to not give any additional clues so his safest response is just not to answer either way…which is what he did. He told us something funny that avoids a direct answer and keeps us guessing about just exactly what he did. No lie, and no helpful information.

      • Hey Colokid,
        I think there is actual info there–that there are multiple ways to the chest; the poem way and f’s shortcut. And that doesn’t seem the least bit surprising…to me.

        The benefit to searchers is knowing that Forrest’s afternoon making 2 trips burdened by heavy metal may not be a reliable measure of the time required to replicate the poem-journey.

        • I think he answered the way he did be cause he has already told us that he “walked” to the spot twice in one afternoon because the chest and treasure combined was too heavy to carry in one trip. How much cleared can he say it? He likes to poke fun at questions that he has already answered. IMO of course!

  88. I don’t think that those examples could be construed as a different mode of transportation. I would consider a horse, an ATV, or a bike as a different mode of transportation.

  89. Forrest’s 12th century bronze chest used to ‘hide’ a Bible or Book of Days. In that era, books were more costly than gold and jewels for two reasons… no printing press meant every word was hand lettered with a quill; and books were hand made from animal hydes.

    The attached short video by the Getty Inst. is a look into illuminated manuscripts akin to what Forrest’s bronze chest once contained.

  90. I broke my neck a few years back so I can’t do much serious hiking unfortunately. I have a hard time getting where an 80 year old man could go lol. So I sent a friend to my solve spot (that I have utilized every functioning brain cell I have left to figure out and am very confident about) to take some pics for me, I said take pics of anything that looks interesting or out of the ordinary. He took this pic and all I can think now is the treasure must be in there somewhere ha.

    He said he half-assed tried to move some rocks around but everything seemed to be held together naturally and didn’t want to move. But I can’t shake the feeling that maybe it’s like a puzzle and you have to find the right rock to remove first, and then the next etc. until you get down to the tree trunk or something? Either way it’s unusual.

    That pointy arrowhead looking rock is actually connected to the rock below it, not just sitting there. I also see an X, I see a rock/slab in the wood angled just like Fenn’s treasure chest pic, I see a V with the line down the middle shaped just like the TFTW cover photo with the walking stick, I see M’s and W’s and arrowheads, but mostly I see me losing my mind…

    • I wish Forrest would put some solar powered touch screens along the trail that would have an arrow pointing the way to the treasure. I think that would help a lot. or, if you lost it says go the other way.

      • Not necessary!

        Solve the Poem!

        Use only the poem a map and a dictionary.

        Find the points, connect the dots, draw the lines.

        Last line is the UU line

        “Why”= Y x2 physical places on the map.

        Y = u in the Greek alphabet

        Thus, the ending uu and where my picture was taken when standing at the junction of UU.

        • paulfoeller, hunch. i like my idea better. im smarter than a kid but i dont know what you talkin about.

          • LOL Hunch, sometimes it feels that way when I read what others come up with. The “mind” is interesting to see how each of us thinks and approaches a problem.


          • Yep – – Holly Toledo a UU turn at the Y junction.

            I don’t know if I’m smarter than a fifth grader – but I do know you will be able to read my solve when I post it. 🙂

        • Simple,
          It is a Y that I must go AND,
          a Y that I must leave.

          This is two physical Y’s that are actually features on the map. Connect them both and you have YY=uu in Greek. The UU line. All at Folsom Falls NM below the Brown ranch!

      • Nope! The ending in FF poem ends with a UU. He starts and ends all the main clues with a the Greek dictionary. See “Meek” and then Y.
        This is a world class puzzle. Not for the faint of heart.
        Just consider the def of “tired” it means headdress.
        The Indian at Folsom Falls wares the headdress of the horse! This solve has been out now for awhile. IMO it’s the real deal. It can’t be disputed. Not one word of it.

          • IMO, I disagree with it ending with a prize at the end.
            I do believe the puzzle master was FIRST. Inspired, and then wrote his poem/puzzle around the place.
            What promise is there that there will be a prize at the end?

          • Not relevant. He gave additional help by giving a more clear picture of the search area. Same as when he eliminated Idaho and Utah.

            That makes your solution 1000% wrong.

        • paulfoeller2 – You wrote:

          IMO, I disagree with it ending with a prize at the end.
          I do believe the puzzle master was FIRST. Inspired, and then wrote his poem/puzzle around the place.
          What promise is there that there will be a prize at the end?

          End Quote ___________________

          So you doubt there is a chest full of treasure placed for us to find? There is a promise you know, but can you believe? If you can’t believe then this is not your place.

          Perhaps I misunderstood your comment quoted above, but it appears you doubt the prize exists.

          Scott W.

          • Scott,




            I don’t believe in Leprechauns, Bigfoot or unicorns either!

            The poem/puzzle is solvable.

            Treasure at the end? Yes!
            But not what you think!

            It’s actually priceless.

          • Part of the problem is that Paul’s entire solution is off of the map that FF defined as the area the TC with hidden in TFTW. I would not expect to find it there.. FF says is it not there from the get go.

          • Oh no! I already got the TROLL tag! Lol

            I really hate to disappoint you, but you guys are so far behind on what has happened that this is like “Old News”

            My solution has now been validated by several very important people. It has held up against all scrutiny and has passed with flying colors. Sorry to disappoint, but “The Chase” is over, you just don’t know it yet.

            I’ll let ya’ll get back to those Unicorns, Bigfoot and 10×10 box of hot air.

          • Windy City,

            What problem?

            Solved with Poem, map, dictionary, in the mountains North of Santa Fe.

            That IS the original set of rules.

            Those pretty maps for


            Those came AFTER the first set of rules and BS useless clues.

          • Aww Scotty,

            Not the royal flush!

            News Flash!

            Dal has the info, and KNOWS it’s the end.

            He’s just not sharing with all of you fine rainbow chasers.

            “The Chase is over”
            Not conjecture,
            not just IMO,
            but FACT.

            now flush me so you can get back to your unicorn party

          • howdy Dal hunch here. hey you are welcome to the moose lodge here in Cody as my guest. see some moose ha ha. singles night is wednesday. for mooses missing one antler ha ha. oh, and unicorns too. first drink free.

          • I read his whole solve. It makes no sense. It is 100% out of the search area defined by FF. I believe that U can start outside of the search area, but the TC is on the map in the book.

          • I tried to follow the process, but couldn’t find Folsom Falls on the FF map. Couldn’t find the headdress either. Nonetheless, looks like a nice rest point from traveling.

          • The chase is over? again? But I have the next perfect solve… how can this be?
            I can’t wait till October… that is when all the scary stories of the chest being found… again… hit an all time high.

            I recall one guy warning the us to call the Authority because the chest is booby-trap, then the gal from Vermont who spent two days / nights with the chest, but she and hubby had to get back home to tend the cattle and left it there. And My all time favorite… The alien dragon egg solve. Does anyone else see a book in the making?


            Hey Goofy, Did ya every find the “child” quote we were looking for. I’ll be damn if I can locate it. Where’s Jason when ya need him?

          • You’re right Seeker, how many of these delusional megalomaniacs have we had?

            If folks want to share their ideas or solutions that’s fine; actually it’s great, as long as they can take the heat when folks start questioning their reasoning. Sharing ideas and constructive criticism could save someone a lot of time and money searching a rabbit hole; and it’s fun and interesting to hear different ideas.

            But these guys that insist the chest is gone or was never there when their solution doesn’t work out are amazingly arrogant……They simply cannot be wrong and anyone that doesn’t agree with them is an idiot. The chest not being where they think it should be is absolute proof the chest doesn’t exist…..Amazing

            To answer your question, no I haven’t found the kid quote; I’ve been really busy working and just haven’t had time…..But I’ll find it or someone will post it and save us the work.

    • ….and this is all on a thread where I discovered +234 = Ω

      um, over at the Forrest Fenn topic, I have exposed the whole setup (not)

      • I guess didn’t understand why there is so much pride in “nuking” someone, until I saw this.
        However, my search is outside the map too. I think the map is just a “really good” clue, because its not a “really good” map.

    • Seeker, Goofy, I’m not sure this is what you’re looking for (child quote). In the Moby Dickens interview @25:50 a kid asks if Forrest thinks “kids have a shot at finding the treasure” and he replies “I think kids may have an advantage”. I expect there are other instances where he said something similar…..

      • Thanks Joseph, yes that’s one of them. I was thinking there was one before that, but maybe I’m wrong.

  91. Rocks versus tree…tough to tell who won.

    Would be weird, a hundred years from now a tree grows right next to the chest and envelops it…the chest would be hidden until someone chopped it down or it burned…talk about ‘in the wood’ hah literally.

  92. Per the comment above about Folsom Falls, etc.: I don’t believe this is the location, but I think back to the old Scrapbook where Forrest sent Dal pictures of carvings on trees – two F’s and a guy running. Folsom Falls and the finder can’t catch up to the treasure? Just kidding.

    • Did you “SEE” the head of a spirited Horse that sits on the Indians head as a headdress? At Folsom Falls? See this, solve the puzzle!
      Def. Tired = headdress
      One first must be inspired, before they can write a poem worthy for the puzzle.

      • Yes, paul, I saw your comments above. You’ve got some interesting ideas but I find your solution to be incomplete. FF has told us he chose every word in the poem carefully. It doesn’t sound like you understand every word but rather that you think you understand some of them. I think the person that solves it will likely understand nearly every word before he or she finds the chest. To come up empty and then claim that the rest of us are chasing unicorns? I’d call that bold but it would be a huge understatement.

        What is fact and what is fiction? That is hard to say. But if someone is involved in this then it must be because they believe in the things FF has said. And here’s something he said, “…I will announce it immediately to Dal and three major media outlets….” No announcement yet, so your solution and conjecture about the treasure must not be correct. If you don’t take that as fact, why be involved?

      • Paul I know you’ve been nuked, but I still had to say that if you come back to browse the site…’re crackers!

        For a ‘Pro’ poet your grammar is appalling.
        Your solve only makes sense to you and this is 100% endorsed by the fact that you came back empty handed…and anyone who questions your solve MUST be wrong lol.

        Ive read your solve and looked, and looked, and looked at your pictures, and i’ll be a monkeys uncle if I can find a horse..headdress or eye in your pictures.
        Maybe go back and highlight and label them better?

        Then put them in your pipe and smoke them…

  93. If the treasure is not there it must be because Forrest moved it right. I “solved” six clues on a chase this summer. I was sure I had solved the riddle and was walking right to the chest. Not only that but all of the quotes that Forrest has made seemed to fit. I was as confident as I have ever been on any search and my ego was starting to get the best of me. I was already thinking of what I would do with the treasure, and wondering about quitting work to write a book about my adventure. When I got to the hidey spot it wasn’t quite what I thought it would be. No cave just an animal burrow and the blaze was not what I expected at all. I was faced with two realities, both harsh. One, I had come all this way and spent too much time and money and physical exertion chasing a figment of my overactive imagination, or two that I was right and all my solving was correct and I was too late because the chest had been moved or was never there to start with. I have seen numerous people face this dilemma while attempting to solve this puzzle with varying reactions. I have decided on a third reality that allows me to keep my sanity. I found a really good place to search but didn’t solve the clues correctly…this time. Because of this I chose to keep this solution to myself, but I had a real struggle with the fact that I was wrong. I am able to see the whole event more clearly now but I can still taste that bitter crow even now. I guess it’s an acquired taste Paul… tastes like humility.

    • Blazeone,

      You hit the nail on the head, from my perspective as well. You stated: “I found a really good place to search but didn’t solve the clues correctly…this time.”

      Yet you added: “Because of this I chose to keep this solution to myself, but I had a real struggle with the fact that I was wrong.”

      I think by sharing part of ones theory and have other chime in, may clear the cob webs and give one a better perspective of there own solution. Grant you it is hard to put out part of a solve without give up too much… but that is the reason I post anything at all… to hear what others have to say and maybe jump start the old brain.

      I see many people that are so stuck on their precious solves they can’t think straight… force fit to make something work… even make up things to provide their theory plausible. Use anything and everything to make sense of the poem. We all have done this… Folks may think i don’t listen to their comment or dissect something they say, and think I’m being rude and attacking their wonderful theory. But what I’m doing is is attempting to see another point of view to help me think of something I may not have considered or have just forgot.

      You yourself have posted a few tidbits that have done just that for me, so I for one appreciated that. If that sharing was to ever stop. I personally would move on. [ note: There is a difference with sharing thoughts and telling a / your solve ]. Maybe by sharing just the right amount of your thoughts / solve will help you in the long run.

      • Yes, I enjoy discussions that can help me out in finding the chest. Seriously though you are on to something Seeker. Let’s use this forum to move toward useful discussion of topics associated with the search. What a concept. So in my mind the hidey hole is a cave or space beneath rocks. In this case I found myself poking around under rocks trying not to get bit by a snake. I think the line “look quickly down your quest to cease”may describe this place. Is quickly 200′?

  94. Can someone remind me of the quote from FF on the trips he took to hide the chest? I know it was 2 but what was the time frame? Where was this statement from?

  95. James, Here’s the whole exchange:

    MW, Question posted 6/19/2014:
    Also, you’ve mentioned on multiple occasions that it took two “trips” to secret the chest and contents to a very special place. Perhaps someone has already asked this, but I’ve not found an answer yet posted or video recording that contains an answer. Forgive me if this is redundant, but were both trips made on the same day/date? Not to be anal, but that would be one spinaroo of the giant ball we call Earth that constitutes a single 24-hour day to its humble inhabitants.
    Thanks so much.
    Kind Regards,
    “Joe, you make this thing so complicated. Reminds me of the reason I don’t like meetings. I hope you don’t belong to a PTA someplace. I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.f”

    • Thanks Colokid… That keeps me in my same location. Was going on a line to a different area in the creek but that would require a 20 mile hike in one afternoon within 2 trips.

      IMO if he took any other form of transportation other than a bike … He would have done it all in a single trip. No reason not to. And a bike at elevation change of 2600 higher would were a good guy down too much for the spot I’m thinking about.

      • James,
        You might want to keep this one in mind as well:
        Mysterious Writings 10/13/2014
        Hi Forrest,
        You once said you walked the 92 miles from West Yellowstone to Bozeman to just experience it. Obviously you were much younger than you were when you hid the treasure. Too far to walk means different things at different ages so I was wondering if you would be so bold as to give an estimate of how far you walked to hide the treasure after leaving your car: was it >10miles, between 5 and 10 miles, between 1 and 5 miles, or less than 1 mile? ~Thanks, Ron

        “Ron, your question sounds like a travelogue, but I’ll answer it. No, I don’t want to be that bold. But I will say that I walked less than a few miles if that will help. I just looked “few” up and one definition is “scant.” Why do I sound like I’m talking in circles? f”

  96. At the hidey spot, is it possible that FF, to make a fox look like a hound, put the chest in a wooden box and sealed it with pitch?

  97. Just wondering….has Forrest ever mentioned that he had to prep the hidey place? Add a rock or remove a rock, cut a tree, clear bushes, etc? Does the hidey place look the same before he put TC there?

    • Rose, the only thing I recall him saying about the hidey spot, other than it is a special place to him, is in the New Mexico tourism video.

        • nicnidaho-
          I’ll jump in here and say that Forrest NEVER said the chest is in New Mexico. So far he has only said that it is in one of four states…MT, WY, CO, or NM.

        • nicnidaho, I didn’t say he said it was in New Mexico. I said the only time I remember him saying anything about the hidey spot, other than it’s a special place to him, was in the New Mexico tourism video.

    • Rose,

      I’m curious on how long you have known of the poem / challenge. There is a lot of information about the chase on this blog and some more listed below, such as Mysterious Writings etc. Even some of the more senior searchers review all that information time to time…

      IMO it is very important to read through as much as possible… The Q&A’s, interviews, SBs etc. Yes it will be time consuming, but will help with a lot of questions and frustrations. What I recall was fenn describing what he would see / smell if standing at the chest. and he knew from the start where he would place the chest, as well as he hold the place in high regards.

      • Thank you Goofy. Do you know which tourism video since there are several out there.

        Seeker, I have been reviewing videos, read the books, searched several areas, went through blogs, pictures and websites. But, I don’t think the blog is only for senior searchers–I thought it was for anyone to learn information about the chase. I posed the question because I couldn’t find information about the place–other than the clues. I know he took two trips to his car in one afternoon. I was trying to figure out how to phrase the question given there are no good key words to search on. So,I posed the question on the blog to see someone knew if he prep the hidey spot. I’m sure the senior searchers go through this over and over again and that’s par for the course. But, my questions aren’t elementary since I’ve worked through numerous possible solves and putting weight on the ones worth putting the foot to the ground. im heading out to NM in about 1 1/2 weeks and I’m trying to do my due diligence.

        • Rose, as far as I know he only did one “official” tourism video and it was for New Mexico. It was a very well produced video in my opinion.

          It’s not hard to find; it’s on the media coverage page under “Most Important Info”.

          Copied from the media coverage page:

          Here is the New Mexico Tourism piece that drew so much attention for the things Forrest said in it. He later tried to clear all that up on this blog and in an interview in the New Mexican…which you can find two links below this one.

          A story in the New Mexican tries to clear up the controversy about what Forrest says in the New Mexico Tourism promo. But it doesn’t help very much…And I swear, I never searched in Minnesota..Jeese!!

        • Darling Rose –

          I really and truly enjoy your posts. It takes us “old timers” back to where we could not even ask the questions you do today.

          We as searchers have become – over time – very protective of Dal and Forrest – and maybe even Goofy, lol,

          Their total dedication to the reality of the chase has been special. They have always been there for us to make this special and along the way to make this a total thrill for us.

          When we see some asking questions that are easily found – not doing the time and research – on their own – especially with things that are right in plain site – we think we are being taken advantage of.

          We have paid our dues and have looked at many things. Some spending years. We have delved deep into meanings of things in history that the poem led us to – and good on us.

          So, all we are saying is do your due diligence and I hope all good things will come to you.

          • I understand and I hope I haven’t offended anyone. I’ve read the transcription on the tourism video numerous times before. That video is a given and I thought it was one of the others since some are numbered and focus on different areas. The reason I’m asking the questions is that I found an area that has been puposely cleared–meaning the trees have been cut. In one of Forrest books (epilogue) it shows him with an axe and he’s looking up at the sky. So, hence my question on whether he prep the area. He has mention that the terrain may not be the same in the future. So, I thought maybe he cut a tree(s). The BSA and the Forest Service clears trails (I know there’s no trail nearby), but I couldn’t find info on whether he prepped the area–cut trees where the trove is hidden/put. In addition, he did say the trove is wet, but does that mean at that time period (season) or all the time? I remember him (Forrest saying the treasure has snow. So, I’m keeping my mind open to the possibilities.

          • If it helps:

            When considering prep work on a location, one could apply the same logic he asks us to use whenever he learns of someone climbing a cliff looking for the treasure. That is, don’t go where someone of 80 couldn’t.

            By the same token, any prep work someone 80 years old could reasonable do might make sense. Things hard to see him doing become harder to justify.

            I think if you’re looking at a clearing of cut trees it’d be easier to try to imagine why he chose an already cut clearing.

          • I take that back. He’s said that he wrote the poem over fifteen years, one could imagine that he prepped an area over fifteen years as well. So, anything a 65 year old could do over fifteen years, presumably in secret.

            When vetting a clearing like that I would use Google Earth’s time tool to see what the area looked like in 2010, certainly, but also as far back as 2000.

        • Hey again Rose,

          You misunderstood part of my comment… I didn’t say it was for senior searchers only, I said “Even senior searcher” utilize all that information. INTO said it better than I. There is so much info out there, and one need to pay there dues, so to speak.
          Nothing wrong with asking question, Hell I do it every time I post. This challenge, one need to ask themselves… Am I in it for the long haul? Some folks have been on this hunt for 5 years, that to me is dedication. Without true dedication your just wasting time … IMO…

          Enjoy your trip.

    • Rose,

      What a well thought out question-

      Yes Rose, it’s all in the poem. As I understand it, 5 years ago Forrest filled his backpack with pine straw, threw his 8lb ax over his shoulder, hooked his gas powered hedge trimmer to his side and walked a few miles along the canyon floor to his hidey spot. Once there, he piled rocks, one on top of the other as a marker, or blaze if you will, so he would be able to find this secret place when he returned. Rumor has it that he painted the top rock the same color red as the first word on some of the pages of his book. After he was satisfied with his marker he took out the pine straw and made a nice cozy resting place for Indulgence to bed down. Then he wielded his mighty ax and started illegally chopping down trees so they wouldn’t fall on Indulgence during an earthquake. The echos from each blow ringing throughout the canyon for anyone to hear within earshot. He then fired up his gas powered hedge trimmer and began to illegally clear bushes and brush so Indulgence would have a better view of the skyline. He also told the bushes not to grow back for 1,000 years so the area could remain the same as he left it. His intention was for everyone who passes-by to clearly see that the area had been disturbed my mankind. I’ve also heard that he posted a billboard that says “LOOK HERE” This information though could be hearsay, I don’t know for sure.

      Hope it helps Rose. Enjoy your hike-


      • Good example B, very funny, & it illustrates Fenn’s posture on education … 2nd hand or direct. We’ve become accustomed to simply raising our hand and asking a question, or reaching for our computers, and forgo primary learning like observing & testing the way kids do so naturally. Ex: DO NOT TOUCH = ask me about it / I’ll tell you about it / There / now you know about it. But do you?

        • Given Ms. Ford’s class, FF might just have a few words about this. There be no paddle up your creek….

          • Hi Rose,

            Your mention of Ms. Ford’s class, and paddles and creeks and such, did she teach kayaking, or canoeing, or critical thinking perhaps? I’m curious to know what FF might have to say about this as well. I’m sure he’s stopped giggling by now. Enjoy your hike Rose. I’ll revert back to my observation post for now. Happy Hunting all… 🙂


    • …..and people worry about the legal problems with finding Forrest’s freely given treasure. That one’s gotta be a nightmare. I hope the guys don’t regret finding it.

    • Some are calling the Amber Room the “Eighth Wonder of the World.”

      I think it will be called all kinds of things before this one ever gets figured out!

      Stay tuned….world ~

  98. Interesting last few days – Forrest’s planned interview, his illness, the postponed/cancelled interview, speculation running rampant about the chest being found…

    This blog is for “Tell us what you think the resting place for the chest looks like”, eh?

    Well, here’s my take; the chest has been placed in an alcove overlooking a canyon. Remember Forrest once recalled finding ancient artifacts in such a place and he felt that they had not ever been touched since they were placed there by their owner, maybe 1000yrs ago?

    – Wisconsin Mike

  99. I was just reading Paul’s solution on Mindy’s site. I must say that I am intrigued by what he was saying, but my mind began to wonder, I like chocolate chip ice cream and mint chocolate chip ice cream, so why is it that I must go to the store and buy some?

  100. 15 years would be time enough to build a rebar reinforced concrete bunker cleverly hidden in natural sito if F was into that. My thought is that the location looks perfectly natural to the passing observer….really the only way to guaranty the chests safety for hundreds of years involves some kind of protection. Not associated with a man made structure just means the structure is not noticeable IMO. Remember a war veterans idea of a safe place is probably a very safe place. Just some ideas to think about for those poking in rocks and holes.

    • Pieces of 15,

      A man made structure is just that. I don’t think even if designed to look like something else that changes the “structure part” Building a bunker, or even a hunting blind style cover would be a structure.

      Although, camouflaging is something that would fit to, Hiding… IMO. Example; to place the chest under, within, behind, a natural looking design. Such as a fake petrified wood. or change the appearance of the chest itself. Fenn is crafty and very good with his handy work. So I would not put it pass him to Hide the chest as looking to be something other than a bronze chest.

      He did stated, he took the valuable to the hide first and then the chest. Could it be, that the chest no longer looks like a chest?

      Just thoughts… I personally think the chest is in a place that is concealed / covered by something natural… a ledge maybe, with a stone placed in front… Again just thoughts.

      I’m not so much worried about what it may look like at this moment. I’m more concerned on the first clue.

      • imo, i believe the first and second clues are the state and the generic location(maybe a state park or forest).

        after that the directions i believe.

        for example, if people told Forrest that they were in Mesa Verde, CO and searching around some trail/river. They might have gotten the first two clues right but not the correct trail/river,… (I used CO and Mesa Verde as an example).

      • Is a ruin a structure? I have been going back and forth on this subject. I know it was a structure at one time but now that it’s ruined is it still disqualified?

        • Good question. I personally say yes, a structure, it is man made for a purpose not unlike a building or dwelling. With that said, I always had a problem with a small cave or impression in a hill side… or a dug out ledge.

          Many different cultures through out time in the Americas made them and for many reasons. They tend to look natural or at least to an untrained eye look natural, but being dug out… does that fall in lines with a structure, Just because it was man made or dug?

          At least a ruins is a noticeable structure.

        • Let’s talk about camouflage shall we. Camouflage – is the use of any combination of materials, coloration, or illumination for concealment, either by making animals or objects hard to see (crypsis), or by disguising them as something else (mimesis).

          • My line of thinking on camouflage would be more inline with a movie set type object, for lack of a better description.

            Something made to blend in with the surroundings, but would no draw attention to it. A rock on a pile of rocks lets say. Hollowed and 42lbs of weight inside. Do I believe this to be so… Nope.

            The one comment that fenn made was:
            “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

            This doesn’t say camouflaged to me. Where ever the chest lays in wait… he thought long and hard about it being found anytime soon… either by accident or by a solve.

            The poem is suppose to lead to the exact spot the chest is… that is all I need to know truthfully. If it puts me there… I’ll find it.

        • LOL, Sorry James. The pic is too blurry for me to see anything. I can’t even tell if it is under water or deep inside a crack in a hill or rock face.

          • You need a better whatever. Look closer. It a pic taken from a underwater video from my last trip in a creek bed. Yes it’s a little cloudy, but so was the water. Looks like rock but the shape is perfect and the chances of that particular shape in natural form would be a lottery winner.

        • James,

          I see a little blue box up in the upper left hand corner of the page. Is that the box you are talking about? 🙂

        • James,
          I have to agree with Seeker. All I see is a bunch of blurry rocks.

          This also implies that you think he put it in a stream. Most people underestimate the power of water. Spring floods in mountain streams move just about everything. A chest wouldn’t last long in a stream. Whether moved or torn apart and strewn all over, the clue directions would be worthless within a couple of seasons.

      • Maybe it has been painter or coated to be camouflaged, or the area has the same color as indulgnece, and that it “fits” the area so it can’t be easily seen, like lots of square rocks. Maybe that is why he took the chest last. If he took the chest first, maybe he would have a hard time finding the chest to put the gold in it. Just a thought and all IMO. Looking back at the area by firehole falls, there were a lot of rock “blocks” that paved the side of the hill. Unfortunately a good deal of them have “washed” or fallen down. A chest left out could be covered with moss.

  101. What would you do?

    This is hard to decide where to start. Its going to be choppy, but here goes…

    First let me say that I’ve had about a dozen email responses over the last two years from Mr. Fenn, and at no point did he give help or guidance. I even traded with him once, but that is another [fun] story. However, his email response to me on my last search day is interesting… Here is a bit of the story..

    I’ve been in tight focus on one search area and my confidence level is still extremely high. We made a family vacation out of it last year, and I went again solo this year, but between altitude sickness, tired kids, swollen creek, and 9 yard encounter with a momma moose and calf (w/ photos!), it was not really a complete search. Not bad, but not thorough. I still think it is there. But that was my last trip because of the cost and lack of vacation time. Its more than 1,000 miles away!. I would never start over again because this solve fits everything (clues, hints, book drawings, etc.). But I can’t afford to go again, at least for several years.

    If I mentioned the place and how I got there, I know there would be thousands of people there within hours! (It works that well).

    Back to the email… Let me say that our trips were fantastic! The scenery, moose, family time… It was all good. And I thought about sharing/posting our story (solve and all) on this blog site. I really wanted to share our story and also to know if I was right. I would be fine if someone ended up finding it with my solve. I knew I probably wouldn’t be back. So, I decided to ask Forest what he would do if he were me. Specifically, I asked him would he share the story with the world? And he answered “I’d let it go David, everyone has their gig”. f So I then asked him if I should finally give up on that spot and he said that he couldn’t advise because “…it would not be fair to the other searchers.” So I’m wondering if by saying “let it go”, he didn’t want the treasure to be found that way. And maybe it is there.

    So I’ll ask you all a question. What would you do if you can’t afford another trip and Forest suggested not posting the solve? (Please don’t ask to post the solve. I told Mr. Fenn I wouldn’t). Does anyone know anything about funding such a trip? Getting a couple reliable people to help search?

    Best, Dak.

    • DAK-
      There are folks who will search for you. You might mention the area you are looking in..
      Such as NM or northern CO…etc..
      Folks tend to search in specific areas close to where they live or close to where their own search area is located.
      Choose someone reliable and trustworthy to the extent that is possible.

      • Dak,

        Here’s another solution. Determine how many days you think it would take for a thorough search. Go online and check out how far in advance you would have to schedule a round trip flight so that it’s cheap. Then do the same thing with a rental car, maybe a minivan. Also check out the price to camp at a nearby campsite. Pack a sleeping bag and pillow to sleep in the van.

        You can probably get it all done for $1,200 or so.

        Go to a friend and ask to borrow the money for a 50X return if you find it. If you don’t find it offer to make monthly payments until the total is paid back. That way no one loses anything and you get to finish your solve.

        Good luck


        • Thanks B. I had all costs already figured out for my last trip and managed to rough it for less than $350 in gas ($1,300 if wear and tear included). But after getting altitude sick twice, I think acclimating at a hotel for a couple days is critical. I’m not a borrower and but I do like the idea of offering them a cut if they want to ‘invest’ in me. (But nobody here is that interested).

      • Dal, this response is probably more suited to the Nine Clues section, but since you posted this: “Folks tend to search in specific areas close to where they live…”, I thought it might make sense here, too.

        When Forrest made his original plans for hiding the chest, he must have thought about the advantage that this would give locals, Rangers, and others with intimate knowledge of specific areas. You publish a set of clues and immediately someone would say, “I know how that fits where I live!” That has never happened – at least, not successfully. It may be worth pondering why that is.

      • Thanks Dal. How do you trust someone you don’t know? Central Colorado by the way. Will you go with me if I can get free?

        • DAK-
          I think trust is a very subjective emotion. The James brothers trusted one another implicitly but the banks didn’t trust either one of them very much…
          One person’s friend is another person’s enemy…etc..
          It’s not easy to find someone you know you can rely on to do the right thing.
          I trust Goofy. He has all the keys to this place and I don’t even know who he is or where exactly he lives. Unless he looks like a yellow dog with floppy ears and a brown collar, I have no idea what he even looks like.
          I think you simply use your best judgement about who to trust…
          Maybe before you can trust someone else you have to trust your own judgement.

          I try not to use anyone else’s solution. Most of the time I don’t even read other’s solutions. I like trying to solve the riddle myself. That is the part of the hunt that entertains me the most. So, if I used someone else’s solution my fun would be hugely diminished.

          I’ll send you an email with a couple of suggestions for people who I think are reliable and have looked in that area…
          But the bottom line is that it needs to be based on who YOU believe you can trust..

    • Hi Dak,

      I would interpret “let it go” meaning “move on”. I too feel like I’m on the right track, but every time I’m wrong, I try and figure out where I went wrong and change the end point (usually further ahead along the same path).

      If you really think your solve is very close to correct, then posting it would be a spoiler. And you might regret it if you realize you needed to go just 100 yards further. There is always next summer…

      Maybe just send it to one person you trust for posterity and / or neutral advice about posting it.

      Good luck with it.

      • Dak, I agree with Muset. Let it go implies that you should feel comfortable exposing it. As an alternative, maybe you could show it to Dal or Goofy if they were willing. At least they’d know if they or others had searched there. They both seem pretty straight up to me and they’re simply too prominent in this whole thing to screw someone over.

        • I’m an ecologist and can track pretty well. There were no signs of people doing what I did (turning over rocks in key area). I was surprised at that because I’m sure someone will eventually do the same as I did. I am however concerned that a small rock slide or fallen tree (and millions are falling throughout Colorado) could have covered it up.

      • Thanks. There are two important reasons to not go further ( up or down that trail). I didn’t realize this until after my search but when you draw a very long and perfectly straight line from one of the ‘things’ in his book (things is all I can say without giving away location) it takes you to the home of brown and the starting trail. Can’t be a coincidence! By the way, I sent F my whole solve at the end of the day (but no surprise he didn’t respond).

    • Dak,
      IMO based on observing this phenomonon over the past two years.

      “everyone has their own gig” – it means you can tell the exact perfectly correct solution and it won’t matter because everyone is consumed with their own solution or model. We will be surprised by the location so that surprise factor is likely to keep others at bay.

      “let it go” – everyone thinks seekers will flock there but I can pretty much guarantee the opposite will happen and many will politely ignore it or tell you where you went wrong.

      It is a good way to move on, tell the world and when they shrug their shoulders then you will have closure. Blast away and see for yourself.

    • Dak,

      I normally don’t chime in on things like this. I think it would be foolish to jump into something without serious thoughts. If you can afford to go now… the simplest and safest answer would be,

      Just save up like you would anything else you do in life.

      Borrowing money, taking out a mortgage on the home, going to a title company and borrowing money on your car [ and yes others have done all those ] is just foolish in my mind, and may bury yourself financially later. Dal’s suggestion to find someone to help search for you is a chance as well… But there are some very good and trusting folks in the search… you just need to be careful of … well, the others.

      If you take the route of partnering up with a reliable party. Just be sure you can handle any disappointment that comes your way.

      Personally if you just take time to rebuild your travel fund… you may be happier to go back yourself.

      • A much more common sense approach than my original thought. The chest has waited 5 years now, I don’t expect it will get any more lonely if you wait and save 🙂


        • I agree. But I did get very anxious when I came up with the solve. It just seems so logical and that would be just a matter of days before someone else thinks the way I did. So far monitoring these posts and websites, nobody wrote about this area except one person mentioned the Blaze. But we’re on the wrong side of a mountain! After reading that, I left a month earlier thinking it was just matter of time… I’ll try to wait, I think 🙂

          • Dak, I had the same feeling about my solve, Couldn’t stand to read thinking someone was going to beat me to it. I went earlier than planned but didn’t find it. Posted my solve an nobody has found it yet. Is yours the right solve? You know its right, just like I knew I was right. Hard decision. Just remember the Thrill is in the “chase”. Make it a family event if you can, memories are priceless, especially with growing kids. Hundreds if not thousand of searchers are out there, but consider how much area there is and how small the chest is. It’s not a very good chance of finding it. Good luck with you decision, but don’t let it get you down. Life always go on.

    • In my opinion, since you are citing the book drawings, there are flaws in you solution. Forrest has said:

      “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f”

      Although many try to rationalize using the drawings, it’s pretty hard to explain how hints in an illustration which was intentionally chosen (and created by others) would not violate this statement.

      So I agree with the others….let it go means you’re probably wasting your time in that spot…IMO.

      • Some of the illustrations were drawn by f. those are the ones. And you are right in that hints are very subtle. But I see subtle hints now throughout TTOTC. Maybe every chapter including the double Omegas. In fact his drawing shows the double omega. You would agree if you saw the aerial photo of the site and compared it to the drawing.
        Forrest said the person would go with confidence. I got the book after my first trip and it gave me much much more confidence after seeing these clues.
        F is crafty to say the least.

        • DAK,

          What’s your basis for saying some of the illustrations were drawn by Fenn? I’ve never heard that mentioned before, and I don’t know of him every stating that.

          • Let’s just say a prominent web hoster confirmed “JF” was Just Fenn. And another sketch shows three very subtle “water bodies” that match the location. (You need to know the location first to see the resemblance. A magnifying glass helped!

          • Geographically I’m probably ideally situated to help you out. However, if your solution is based on “water bodies”, magnifying glasses, alleged drawings by Fenn, double Omegas, aerial photographs, and mysterious “web hosters”, none of which are in the poem, then you’d be hard pressed to convince me that it’s worth my time.

        • Dak,

          You are absolutely right. There are subtle clues in some of the drawings.

          The poem is a recipe. There is something in the book, and yes, I believe the poem tells you what “right” or “good” map to use, but that map is not in the drawings. Hints to the map are, though. The poem, IMO, tells you what to do with the map. But you first have to find the blaze.
          I just found it this week, but the hard part is to follow the poem to see the rest of it.

          That blaze is really hard to find, and can’t be seen with the naked eye. But once you find it, there is absolutely no mistaking it at all. The trick is to not ruin it by ignoring the poem.

          And once you follow the poem, I believe you can absolutely go with 100% confidence to the exact spot, no doubt about it. No horses or “i’s” to find on GE, no searching willy nilly around a general area, no “potential” solves.

          And for those of you who believe that pictures in the book haven’t been photoshopped, take a look at the pics on pages 92-93. Why is Lt. Col. John Carlson’s head cut from the top pic and pasted over the guy’s head in the bottom pic? It’s the same pic, same head, just tilted and darkened.

          Then look at piles of coins on page 131. See the stack of four coins with the rock on top? There are two of them, exactly the same–obviously, no doubt, 100% photoshopped.

          And there are more.

          So why all the emphatic denials that there is no photoshop when there so obviously is? That part isn’t IMO, because it is staring everyone in the face. It IS photoshopped. No matter how often someone says something, nor how forcefully they say it, does not make it true.

          And just because Forrest said all you need is the poem, think about that context. Where was the place you could find the poem originally? In the book.

          And remember his ultimate disclaimer: non-fiction writers only have to be right 85% of the time, and the other disclaimer from the Scrapbook: “Ninth: I reserve the right to be wrong once in a while.”

          So what is he right about? What is he wrong about? Each of us has to figure that out, and the answers are in the book. IMO.

          And radiators are important, not because they’re radiators, but because they leak, and when you have a radiator leak, you may get steamed. See page 110.

          And for those who believe there is supplemental important literature, there is. It can be found in TTOTC, and it tells the story of what Catcher left out, Forrest’s childhood. IMO.

          • Mindy, Are you sure you want to go to SF on the 14th. Maybe you should go to your spot first and bring it on the 14th. See you there.

          • Bravo Mindy –

            You are so right on – good on ya girlfriend. !!! Couldn’t have said it better myself. I give you a standing ovation.

            When you find the actual recipe – and there is one – you will be close. 🙂 IMO

          • I agree the photo on 151 is not what it seems but I think it is just the same photo placed side by side to make one big pile of coins instead of one smaller one. Its an illustration in my view and I never thought much of it. As to the photos of Carlson head–it doesn’t look like the same photo to me although given the location and circumstances, it clearly appears that both photos were taken within minutes of each other. The mouth looks different to me. Even if it were photo shopped why is it important?

          • Raven –

            It is photo shopped – the head photo – look at the dark shadows below it. They are there so you wouldn’t see it was a different uniform.

            Why is it important –

            1. It’s covering something up
            2. Even the shadows might be important.

          • Mindy,
            Well that was quite a rant….IMO.

            Let’s start with your statement about maps. Is there a “correct” map? IMO no and here’s why.

            Question posted 6/28/2014:
            “Is the map that needs to be used to discover where warm waters halt found online or in paper form? or both?” ~mdc777
            C’mon now agent 777, a map is a map. The more detailed maps are most useful if you have the right map, but I’m not sure I needed to tell you that.f”

            F says a map is a map. This tells us directly that a “special” or particular map is not required. Now I know you are going to grasp ahold of the next line that says “right map”, but the overall context of the response doesn’t emphasize this as the important part of the answer.

            In SB 62 he said:

            “Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f”

            The “and/or” is a logical operator that tells us that GE may be just as good as any other map.

            And he said this:

            “I would like to reiterate: Please go back to the poem and look at maps for your answers. ”

            Maps is plural….strongly implying that many maps (and perhaps any map) could work just as well. I think this is a very key point and leads to an important logical conclusion.

            IMO you’re wasting your time looking for a “special” or “correct” map.

            People can chose to ignore what F says in order to justify and rationalize their preconceived conclusions if they want but I believe you are just putting yourself at a disadvantage.

            Next, does photo-shopping exist in the book? Looks like there are some instances to me. Does it mean anything? Doubtful. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to do it…IMO. You seem to be putting this out there like it’s been a big deal. Where are all the disbelievers you allude to? Where is all the controversy you are worried about?

            BTW, I like the way you think.

          • Colokid,
            I agree with almost everything you said. However, is it possible for F’s statement to be interpreted this way:

            If, say, there IS a map in the book, would that map be more useful if it *somehow* became more detailed?

            Could the statement telling us to read the poem and go back be referencing the way to make said map more detailed? Could reading the poem tell us how to make a less detailed map more detailed?

            A map is a map. If the map is more detailed, it is immensely more useful. But WHAT are the details in a detailed map? Are they what everyone ASSUMES they are–more locations, roads, trails, elevations, etc? Or could “detailed” mean something altogether different?

            I think it’s something altogether different.


          • You’ve renewed my interest, oy, another year of nit-seeking ahead of me. Have fun girl, and good luck. You’ve got a good head, but be careful in pointing out false notes lest Goofy get all arched and accuse you of calling Fenn a liar. Sorry Goofy, in this memoir, imagination is more important than literalism. IMO!!

          • Colokid –

            I just heard about your Thanksgiving trip –
            sounds like fun.

            Why is it that as soon as someone posts something useful – like Mindy just did – you are right here telling them they are wrong? I understand there are two ways to look at things. Anyone who isn’t looking for clues in the book is crazy.

            I happen to agree with her – and nothing about what FF said disputes that. I suppose we could argue that point forever – and I don’t want to so please forgive me for being so blunt.

            All the above is just my little ole opinion…………

          • I always ask myself, “what would Indiana Jones do?” I certainly do not think he would ignore the book the poem originated from….
            Just my little Ole opinion too!

          • Inthechaseto,

            I find Mindy’s suggestions and resultant questions in my mind fascinating, (with regard to the photos in the book) . Ordinarily that is all that I would find them, fascinating however finding that someone protesteth too much, well I look a little closer. Perhaps Mindy is sharing an idea that others would rather she not.

            Not encouraging others to pursue photo hints since this is simply my opinion

          • IntheChase,

            You said: “I just heard about your Thanksgiving trip –
            sounds like fun.”

            No idea what you are refering to…you must have me confused with someone else.

            Then you said:
            “Why is it that as soon as someone posts something useful – like Mindy just did – you are right here telling them they are wrong?”

            What may be “useful” to you may be noise to others….IMO.

            Unlike Mindy, I stated all thoughts were my opinion. Those opinions are based on well documented Fenn statements. This blog is about debate, and IMO the best outcomes occur when we challenge each other to look more closely at our thought process. I constantly search out reasons for my own thoughts to be flawed in order to be certain I’m not rationalizing and off base. I recommend that all serious searcher administer a heaping dose of critical thinking to all their solutions.

            IMO Mindy (and many others) are making the solution more challenging than it already is and, IMO, chasing a wild goose. I never said she was wrong…I just provided logical arguments that suggest she may be headed in the wrong direction.

            I’ll restate my main premise:

            People can chose to ignore what F says in order to justify and rationalize their preconceived conclusions if they want but I believe you are just putting yourself at a disadvantage.

            So, if you like what Mindy is putting out there by all means run with it but don’t criticize me for stating my opinion.

          • Colokid,
            I didn’t use IMO in the post? I counted four.

            Of course, what’s useful and not useful is at this point in time, completely subjective.

            Maybe we are ALL hearing what F says, but are interpreting it differently. Until the chest is in hand, no one can judge what’s useful or not.

            My post was partly intended to point out a few facts as well as my opinion.

            The facts are:

            There ARE some photoshopped images in the book.

            There ARE teeny things in the drawings that become as clear as the words I’m writing with the right tools.

            Whether or not they’re important is open to interpretationIMO, they’re important.

            Forrest did not know beforehand (IMO) how big this would get.

            He didn’t (IMO) know how fine-toothed some searchers combs would be.

          • Map iportance? Somewhere way up this thread someone mentioned ‘cold’ as a measure or maybe a direction, like, Left behind in the cold… cold=left, and I got a thought (rare indeed) … is there a plumbers standard for placing water taps? Right=cold, Left=hot? Which naturally suggests other construction standards (think like an architect) do light or gage toggle ‘switches’ have a standard? on=up, off=down? I remember learning to fly in an old Cessna 150 and all the lettering was rubbed off the dash buttons. I didn’t know if I should push or pull, and & I was told “Always Push to go & Pull to stop”,
            Are map directions hidden in common words?

          • I’m gonna step on some toes here, but I do agree with Colokid… no special map is needed just a very good map. While we all have a road atlas, I would prefer a topo map, while a topo map is good, GE has the availability to change types of mapping… and some very useful tool, such as distance measurement etc.

            For myself, I would like an overall geographical map. I don’t believe Fenn say a good map is anything else but a good map. No special requirements just logical sense, the more detail the terrain, more detailed rivers and water source, more detailed elevation etc. just matches with the suggestion fenn has stated in the past, Below 10,200, above 5000′ etc etc.

            IF a map or a special map was truly needed… I would think there would be something in the one Fenn supplied. But to be honest, there are better ones easily available, clearer, and much more detailed. What I would ask is why would a map help? if the poem tells us exactly where the chest lays in wait. [ and yes if you’re unfamiliar with an area… take a dang map or good GPS] My only thought would be another statement Fenn made at the same time period. A comprehensive knowledge of geography might be helpful.

            ~ in part, the study of the Earth surface…

            While some just may look for a canyon, I would suggest asking how it was made? while others look for a creek or river, I would ask, where does it start and end. While other look for something Brown, in color, a building, a ranger… would would ask, what does hoB look like on a map?

            Just some thoughts

          • Seeker,those are good thoughts. I believe some others have found what I have.

            Who knows exactly what I’m talking about? Into? Endofthechase?

            Who else has found the recipe?

          • Seeker – I like your considerations of locations, fresh new way to to think about the poem/map.

            Mindy – I can find no coloring other than found on the whole page of the map. I also found no letters using my coin magnifier.??

          • Mindy, I think the picture of the coins is to represent a take on mirror images, as he has done so often.

            The two pictures I believe are separate pictures. Both taken late afternoon when shadows are long but the pic of the 3 men was taken as a close-up and those are shadows you see, perhaps of the photographer and a helper.


          • BW,

            They could be different, but there are compelling reasons to believe they are the same, although very slightly modified.

            The left ear is exactly the same size and shape, despite the seeming rotation of the head. The Right ear has been stretched and a shadow added. If the EAR is different on one picture, it would be different on the other as well. The EAR evidence is extremely compelling also because even a variation of just a few seconds between pictures would produce very recognizable differences in ear position and shape due to head movement. Especially when the photos are candid and the subject not attempting to keep his head perfectly still.

            The right side of his face has been stretched very slightly.

            Shadows have obviously been added to further disguise it’s the same photo.

            The position of shadows stretching from inside corner of left ear are the same, albeit one is darker.

            The sideburns area on the right side is exactly the same on both.

            Hair (minus the super obvious drawn on ear symbol) is exactly the same on both.

            I won’t even go into that drawn on ear symbol that you can literally find all over ttotc AND tftw. Lol.

            The only difference between the two are the shadows and slight stretching of one ear and jaw.


          • Mindy,

            Well there you go again. At the risk of quibbling you stated:

            “The facts are:

            There ARE some photoshopped images in the book.

            There ARE teeny things in the drawings that become as clear as the words I’m writing with the right tools.”

            Where are the IMO’s? These are clearly not “facts”,….just your opinion and/or imagination. (See what I did with the and/or?)

            Now in my opinion I agree that there “appears” to be some photo-shopping but i’m not an expert. I also don’t agree that there is anything important about it. It won’t be a fact until Forrest states it’s a fact.

            While it may be a fact that “you” are attributing importance to the drawings, it is only your opinion that there is anything there to look at.

            I would recommend everyone look up the word Pareidolia. It explains why people image patterns were none exist….(not that there’s anything wrong with that). Remember SB 116 with the bathroom tiles? That’s a cautionary tale about what people are doing wrong….not a hint about how to find the TC….IMO.

            Again, I would highly recommend that everyone scrub their theories with a lot of critical thinking…..wishful thinking isn’t going to get you a chest.

            I’ve got nothing against you Mindy but I believe that you need to abide by the blogs rules about separating opinion from legitimate “facts”.

          • Colokid,

            Facts are facts. It’s obvious beyond obvious that the image on page 131 was photoshopped. I think just about everyone can agree with that. So that makes my first statement a fact.

            The second statement is also a fact. If you have the right magnification, there are clear as day words in some drawings. Words that make sense. Words that are in context with each other. Undeniably unrandom by just about everyone. Meaning, if I blew up the words and showed them to anyone who can read and to read them aloud, every single person would say the same thing. IMO.

            And I BELIEVE the drawings or pictures are important. I never said THAT was a fact.

            And I have nothing against anyone. But facts are facts, no matter how hotly contested. And ok, all of what I say is IMO.

          • Colokid, I’ll admit I haven’t been around nearly as long as many regular posters to this site, but I do browse through posts on a fairly regular basis as I’m able. I have to admit that most of the content I’ve seen you provide is criticism on why a certain theory could not possibly hold water. While this forum is certainly a place for healthy debate, it does get a little old when the criticism : original content ratio gets to a certain point. Of course you are entitled to your own opinion and style of contributing within reason. However, not many people will take the time to provide honest feedback not motivated by anything other than providing reflection. So you can take this feedback to heart or just delete and move on. As Forrest recently pointed out to one poster on here “everyone has their own gig”.

          • Mindy,

            You put great thought into your ideas, But I’m a little confused on what it is you’re seeing. You say recipe but it sounds more like instructions.

            “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.”

            Do I think there is information in the book that will help. Yes.
            But this is my dilemma. How much of the book are you using? a couple seems to be a small amount. Not unlike Few, and fenn has said that is more than two but not much more. So what is a couple?

            “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f”

            If the pics in the book were deliberate altered, what does this comment say then? For me that would make the book an absolute necessary and i don’t read that in fenn’s comment[s]

            If the book was a needed piece would fenn not just say so? I have never heard any indication of such, just the book is helpful. For all the times I hear folks saying we need to listen to fenn, those are the same folks that seem not to.

            Are you thinking the SB of the seasonings is a hint or clue? This for me is a force fit… that is just my opinion, and i can only make that assumption by what fenn has said.

            Where’s Tucker when I need him…

          • Seeker, in my opinion, there are some hints placed in the book. And I agree with everything F has said.

            While it’s true that hints aren’t deliberately placed to aid THE seeker, couldn’t they arguably have been placed to aid ALL seekers?

            “The” is singular. So, no, they aren’t placed to aid just one, but EVERYONE.

            All IMO.

          • Seeker,

            I’m actually using very little in the book as hints. And pretty much nothing in the scrapbooks.

            There are really just three pics and/or drawings that I think are important. One is VERY important. IMO, IMO.

            And yes, I think the poem is instructional, in the way a recipe is instructional in baking a cake. IMO.

          • Wildbirder,

            I don’t know what state it’s in. But I know the hidden words are on the NM map on page 133.

            But that still doesn’t mean the treasure is there, since I haven’t solved the poem.

          • mindy thank you am still trying to read all of the blogs and get dinner going before starts roast one of our small doggies. in the case of one of the cats he is welcomed to her

          • The difference between me and the over confident is that I still don’t know the final answer. But I know this most recent thing I’ve found is definitely not random. IMO.

          • Mindy,

            Tell you what. If Goofy and Dal are OK with you using the word “fact” in a haphazard fashion that’s OK with me.

            If you can get Goofy and Dal to add your “facts” to the Cheat Sheet then I’ll believe them.

            It really just confuses the Newbees.

          • It doesn’t matter who believes them. The Pope could say he doesn’t believe, but it doesn’t change the truth.

            Haphazard? I don’t think so. I presented two facts. Anyone who can see can tell I’m wearing white socks today. If you can’t tell the image on page 131 isn’t photoshopped, I don’t know what to say. Lol.

            Regardless, what “important” people believe doesn’t determine truth. I don’t believe what the Pope believes. I don’t believe what Obama or Trump believe. Their seeming importance doesn’t bend the trruth, or alter the facts.

            I don’t have anything against Dal or Goofy. I like and respect them both. But they don’t have inside information that definitively determines truth and/or how to interpret what Forrest says. If they do, then the playing field is not level. IMO.

            I interpret it as a fact that at least page 131 is photoshopped. I’m not afraid to stand up for the truth. I don’t think anyone (but you, Colokid) can argue that it’s not photoshopped. IMO.

          • Mindy I love a good chat, but your example of “THE” seeker to “everyone” Is helping me with my point. That is a big stretch of the use of the book IMO.

            This is why we need to be careful when reading the book as a helpful tool and not let are ideas make something that is not there, force fit what we need it to be.

            The seeker ; is a generic and common use meaning all who seek. The searcher, the person, the hunter would all mean the same… those how seek the trove, and all in plural in meaning.

            I find it hard to swallow a solution that has to rely on information in the book to be a must use to solve the poem… helpful, informative, useful in understanding the poem… even given hints to the same. But from what I hear you are using it as a must need to a solve.

            I just don’t see that… and that is not something i say lightly, I have read many many comments and heard tapes etc. of fenn saying the answers are in the poem.

            So would you agree that, if something was needed to solve the poem and was found only in the book… that the poem can’t be solved on it’s own?

          • Seeker,
            I honestly can’t answer that yet. I just know every sentence anyone, includes Forrest, says, can have multiple meanings.

            I don’t have a final solve. All I know is what I’ve found using two tools (magnification and light) revealed something unmistakable and incredible. I don’t say that lightly, either.

            And if no one else pipes up with a guess as to what I’ve found, I’ll just tell everyone. I’ll just say it, and everyone can see what I’m talking about. If someone finds the treasure before me, I will congratulate them, because they will have gotten further than I have.

          • For all those Mindy(s) out there,

            You can study the words, sentence structure & photos in TOTC until cows come home, what have you learned?
            A lot has happened in the West in the past 70 something years, so that’s where my energies are focused. I have learned so much because of Fenn, that not finding the TC won’t be a total disappointment.

            Angel Fire chapel in New Mexico screams out CLUE to me, because of ‘when and why’ it was built. IMO Fenn’s nine clues each stand for something powerful.

            Maybe I’m gaining much useless knowledge… say for instance what happened to David Steeves…
            “David Steeves (1934 – October 16, 1965) was a U.S. Air Force lieutenant and experimental aircraft test pilot. He is best known for an incident in 1957, when he was unjustly accused of giving a Lockheed T-33A trainer jet to the USSR during the Cold War.”

            In addition to studying interesting facts from the general search area, I plan on watching a lot of Westerns over the winter

            I’ve learned I really enjoy watching Westerns now, no matter how campy they may have seemed. Real Westerns, not the old tired Clint ones.

          • 9clues,
            Watch “The Searchers,” starring Natalie Wood. It’s very interesting when you know the story it’s based on. 🙂

          • mindy,

            At least we are both being honest with each other… that’s always good.

            I’ll be honest that I don’t have the pics you are referring to, so I can’t debate what you’re looking at. That may be a downfall on my part for not having the book.

            Then again, it may just be a good thing, who knows at this point. I have many of the stories [ not all ] but little on pics. Would you be willing to supply a pic you are talking about? and post it. You don’t need to, I’m just the type of person that if one says something they should back it up… i try my best to do that as well. But I also understand why it might not be a wise thing to do.

            Your choice.

          • I’ll post everything I’ve found so far on my blog before next weekend. That is, everything I haven’t promised other people I’d keep secret.

            I’m not going to betray anyone’s trust.

          • Oh, the heck with it. I’m about to make some people who think they have a monopoly on this “secret” angry. With a lighted magnifying glass (the more powerful the better), look on the NM map opposite the poem. Look for the subtle greenish-yellow tint to the left of Little Gold Man’s head, and see the words and letters in plain type that you can’t see with the naked eye. You will see “kim” and “id” surrounded by other letters and other words above and beneath. The greenish-yellow tint extends to the bottom of the page, which I think is important in following the “instructions” in the poem.

            IMO, this info is important.

            However, it is a FACT that those letters and words are there.

          • Not trying to be rude, but where do U See a little gold man? I see a frog, a coin and four nggets sitting on the

          • Windy,

            Ok, I’ll clarify. Look just to the left of the coin which resembles the head ofc a little gold man.

            Or a giant gold man, depending upon your perspective.

          • I am on page 133 pf ttotc and there is only 1 coin and it is mostly covered. Am i in the wrong place?

          • Windy, sorry, my mistake. The roundish nuggets near the center of the map. The most northwestern nugget.

          • Thank you. I don’t see the letters. Perhaps I don’t have enough magnification or my eyes are too old.

          • Windy,

            I found the only way I could see the letters was with a magnifying with with a light in the handle. I got mine from CVS. It has a bifocals lens in it too.

            I have three copies of ttotc, and the letters are in all three. My son and one other person has seen them, too.

            They aren’t print bleeding through, and are not a result of ink transfer from the poem page.

            I have a photo of a couple of the letters. It was hard to get a clear pic, but you can clearly see the letters. If anyone wants a pic, email me at mindyfauseyatyahoodotcom.

          • Mindy –

            You are the only other one, I have ever seen that gets the recipe idea. I have seen others talk about it – but they didn’t understand it – you do. And once you have that – you will know for sure what treasures old is – right? Oh and if you find the right cookbook – (that does not have the recipe in it) – two of the scrapbooks relate to it – 100%. IMO

            As far as a map goes – there are lots of maps that are useful. But, there is IMO one map that has something on it that FF has talked about – which will get you close – but that’s about all – and close will NEVER get you the treasure – IMO.

            Then there is GE – and that will get you close too.

            There is only – IMO – one way to find the precise spot and that is the long way. There just are no short cuts. 🙂

          • Mindy,

            Interesting to know. I never realized the Pope was involved or that you were a photographic alteration expert.

            You said:

            “I don’t think anyone (but you, Colokid) can argue that it’s not photoshopped. IMO.”

            Apparently you failed to read and comprehend what I said:

            “Now in my opinion I agree that there “appears” to be some photo-shopping but i’m not an expert.”

            So I was actually agreeing with you that this is possible but you’re a little to manic to see that.

            It’s very interesting to watch you expound on your superior understanding of all things. Really makes you come off as extremely arrogant.

            What’s that saying……Pride comes before the fall?

            Good luck with that magnifying glass.

          • Colokid,
            I think I just admitted I don’t have a solve. I don’t pretend to know more than what my eyes tell me.

            I haven’t personally attacked you. When debate turns into personal attack, that speaks volumes.

            You don’t have to be an expert to tell something has or hasn’t been photoshopped.

            I’m saying right now that the floating hat in the SB has been photoshopped. I’m not an “expert” but everyone can clearly see that the image has been photoshopped. I’m saying that Brad Pitts head has been photoshopped in another SB. I’m no expert, but who can deny that I’m telling the truth.

            Everyone can deny it, but that doesn’t alter the truth.

          • Mindy i dont think you are being arrogant and i am not sure about the fall coming unless you are just getting out of a steam and yelling she up. that i almost guarantee it will result in a fall back into the water or at least in my case. i think you are just like us you have found something that you know you have found and it makes sense and you want to share it but no one gets it. we have been there. Mindy know what you know and do not try to convince anyone. just know and run it down. i compare it to seeing an UFO. you saw it you know it was real but trying to get other to listen is hard. just know what you know. good luck with your searches. now excuse me while i go try to find my magnifying glass, fresh batteries, and see what i see.

          • Seeker, it is my observation that you are still the adamant force behind the position that all we need is the poem.

            While the statement is true that the information to find the treasure is in the poem, that does not imply that we don’t require additional sources to “understand” the information.

            You made the following statement:

            “If the book was a needed piece would fenn not just say so? I have never heard any indication of such, just the book is helpful. For all the times I hear folks saying we need to listen to fenn, those are the same folks that seem not to. ”

            Pay heed to your words, here is what Mr. Fenn told us.

            Forrest: “Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.”

            From the looks of things, over the years, IMO, we all need “help” solving the clues.

            It is my opinion that the poem is not the only source needed.

            🙂 Please have a nice day and enjoy the thrill of the chase.

          • It is not my intention to stir this hornet’s nest any more, but I would caution us all to think first and speak after a moment of reflection.

            Mindy, I have eyes but cannot see your socks, wouldn’t you agree? I am being literal in my interpretation of your words. If you had used a clause in your statement such as, “if you were in the room with me…” Then I could wholeheartedly agree with what you said.

            And now playing devil’s advocate; whose to say that the whole pictures being photoshopped were not done to throw some folks off? Or perhaps they were dubbed to hide misleading clues/hints so as to ensure nobody went off on a wild tangent? We do not know why they were altered, only that it appears from the evidence presented that they were.

            Lastly, some peoiple believe the world is flat and that the sun circles around it. Does that make it true, even for them, even if they beleive it? Sometimes, the wise thing is to see that they cannot see the truth because they are blinded – think of Plato’s shadows on the cave wall. (That’s not my solve – by the way.)

            The fact of the matter is that some people are like concrete, all mixed up and permanently set. Nothing you can say or do is going to change their minds. Unless they “hit the wall” and it finally dawns on them that what they were told earlier and dismissed was actually correct and true.

            As much as we want to help folks see that they are mistaken, sometimes we cannot get through to them. We have to recognize when to step back.

            I’m stepping back now.

          • Seeker –

            When I first started – I thought I would not need the book. I was so wrong.

            All that is needed is the poem IN THE BOOK. I know that is not what he said – but you are limiting yourself by not using every available resource that is available to you.

            That includes: books, maps, computers, library’s, art, music, people, blogs, and more.

          • special,


            Forrest: “Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.”

            I never said there are not hints or information within the book… I said that IF there is anything in the book that is “Needed to solve the poem”… then the poem can not be solved on it’s own.

            If the information, other than the poem, is used as a needed part to solve the poem… then the poem has failed and the many comment fenn has made to, all you need is the poem or the poem has the answers, would be very conflicting to say the least.

            So I’ll ask you. Which is it?

            The Quote above that you placed only say Subtle hints that will Help. Nothing there says it is a must to a solve. There is a big difference to having helpful information and a needed to solve information.

            vs. the full Q&A

            “Dear Mr. Fenn,
            We are a group of avid elderly bridge players in San Diego who after reading your book hope to find your treasure. We are not into poetry as much as the memoir. We realize the clues are in the poem, but were wondering if there isn’t at least one clue in each chapter.
            Thank you for a great book. Sincerely, Emily,
            Forrest’s succinct response:Emily,
            All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f”

            Take it for what it’s worth…. But “Not deliberately placed to aid….” seems to me, just what I have said in the past. If there is a MUST NEED clue from the book, the poem falls apart.

            And that was my point to Mindy and anyone that points out a “Needed piece or Clue” from the book…

          • into,

            Just as I said to Special a moment ago…

            Of course any information is help would be Helpful… I for one don’t know everything, Hell, I had to look up every word definition in the poem just to start.

            I’m saying that if anything in the book is ” a needed piece to solve the poem” and with out that piece the poem can not be solve… then the poem has failed it job.

            I refer to many of statements of Fenn to back that up. I’m not arguing as in fighting with anyone, I’m arguing as in debating.

            When i read someone is saying a “clue” in the book will lead to a solve or needed to solve the poem… I have to ask questions. I’m not here to tell or advise anyone not to use the book to help. I will debate that what they is a “needed part.”

          • “It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.” Joseph Joubert

          • Seeker


            This is not a debate, would that it were.

            The problem stem from assumptions of things I did not say or accuse you of saying, your statement was, “I never said there are not hints or information within the book… I said that IF there is anything in the book that is “Needed to solve the poem”… then the poem can not be solved on it’s own.”

            If you understood what I previously said, then you would see the need. I said, “While the statement is true that the information to find the treasure is in the poem, that does not imply that we don’t require additional sources to “understand” the information.”

            It is also obvious that you don’t know about the Q&A quote that I shared with you. I gave you Forrest’s answer.

            The complete Q&A is:

            “Holly: What tips do you have for those wanting to find the treasure?

            Forrest: Here is what I would do. Read my book in a normal manner. Then read the poem over and over and over, slowly – thinking. Then read my book again, this time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues.”

            “Help solve the clues.” Perhaps some don’t need any help.

            Why would any one wanting to “find the treasure” want to disregard Forrest’s recommendation?

          • Special…they are hard to see unless the magnification and light is right. I tried to see them with my phone lighted magnifying glass and couldn’t see them. The cheap magnifier from CVS worked well though. Send me an email..I took a couple pics.

          • The clue vs hint and poem vs book seems circular to me. TTOTC pg 133: There are also other subtle clues sprinkled in the stories.”

          • foreword: I am inclined to think any photoshopping or steganography by Allen Polt (the artist for TTotC) is irrelevant.

            BUT ! How can anyone explain Donnie Joe being in Cung Son in 1968 ! Dan Harshman, riiiiight.

            Look at pp. 68 & 81 ΩΩ

          • Hey Mindy,
            I’m not saying he didn’t, but I do think that would be a canard, and out of character in it’s extreme. I think Forrest is capable of, and intent on, keeping us “at bay” without such convoluted means.

            But it is certainly fun, entertaining, and fodder for (mostly) civil exchange, when you are at clue’s end.

            Peace, Joseph

          • Joseph –

            I see what you are saying – I’m working on it. Can’t really comment until I’m sure.

            Anything more to add?

        • Thanks Mindy…you taught me something. I’ve never heard of that term before.

          For everyone’s benefit: Flexibilty of closure =The ability to identify or detect a known pattern (a figure, object, word, or sound) that is hidden in other distracting material.

          While I can see how this ability can be invaluable in many instances where “known patterns” must be readily identified (air traffic controller, cops, etc) I will have to think about how this might benefit us looking for unknown/hidden patterns.

          • Colokid,

            I would also like to add that “closure speed” is related and applicable, IMO.

            Closure speed is the ability to perceive an apparently disorganized group as parts of a whole. It deals with the ability to make sense of, combine, and organize information into meaningful (previously unknown) patterns.

          • It doesn’t hurt to have background knowledge in game theory or was it geography.

            Happy Labor Day weekend everyone, take a break and drink in some fresh air!

    • It’s exhilarating to be wrapped up in a solve. The best days of my searching were those I can now say were filled with overconfidence.

      I left a job I didn’t love in mid Sept last year and spent more time chasing for a few months until end of Jan while the funds were there…now I’m back in a job I love exactly 1 year later. It was a beautiful diversion to chase while I tried to find a more meaningful job.

      Coming back to reality (work, family and friends) is something every searcher should be able to do to stay in balance.

      Forrest isn’t our “BFF,” he’s just there to get us off the couch. Be ok with what you learn from chasing…it will be a different lesson for each searcher.

      • 23, congratulations on your new job! I think your words are encouraging and spot on. Good luck to you in your chase.

        • Who doesn’t loose perspective in the chase?

          Everyone one that has tried has a story. The highest honor is to be a player not just a spectator.

          Hard lessons are there for everyone. You will fail over and over. I think I tried 9 times in one area until I had to realize I am probably seeing things on maps that are not in the actually in the poem.

          The human mind sees through the lense of expectation.

  102. Seeker, you quoted ff with respect to finding his treasure chest full of gold:

    “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.” Forrest Fenn

    Logically, if anyone had solved to the correct place but couldn’t retrieve the gold “on a a Sunday afternoon or spring break” – which is a full week – in essence ff is stating he’s concealed the gold for hundreds of years to keep his legend alive.

    Has Forrest retracted or further clarified this important statement?

    If not, search efforts – by Forrests own statement are a waste of time for at least a hundred years.

    It would be appropriate in most people’s opinions for him to bring clarity on this statement. Btw I don’t believe ttotc is a hoax, but I’m asking if it’s possible now; or done for the purpose of fabricating a legend.

    • Anna,

      I believe you’re misinterpreting the quote. In my opinion Forrest is saying that kids frolicking around the Southwest on spring break, or someone taking a hike during a Sunday picnic will not by happenstance find the treasure. The chest is as accessible now as it will be in a hundred years. That’s just my opinion, and one that I am confident of.


      • Anna, IMO FF also mentioned some time ago that it might be found in the next few weeks. The point was that it wasn’t going to be found without studying the poem and looking diligently.

        • Not obsessed, about how long ago do you think ff made the comment about it being found in the next few weeks? I missed that one. I agree with you that there are two distinct parts to this – one is studying the poem and another is looking diligently. The looking part is difficult even though I have a very small spot to search. I think looking in the spot is just as difficult as studying the poem.

          • Kathryn sorry for the delayed response. I can’t say what interview it was in. In one he said he hid it so well that it wouldn’t ne found for a thousand years, or maybe a hundred, oh well maybe next week. In another he implied that people we doing so much work and that so many people were looking “it could be found soon”, but that has been some time ago.

          • Thanks, not obsessed. As to the comments above, I do not see a recipe; I see instructions/directions. I think all you need is the poem and some research by any means available to understand concepts that you do not have in background knowledge. I could figure out some things via Internet, others from people, and some from ytube videos. I took my study from a different direction, I guess. I was raised in a time and place where resources were scarce–the library and talking with others/interviewing on the fly were about it. I tried using the book. However, it is the book and a hint in it that threw me off. I have thrown away all hints from the book and continued with the poem and my interview research. The biggest hint I neglected in the past was something said about how some of the clues were not available during his youth, but the geography was. Now I just wait until I can get to my spot and check it out. The discussion here is interesting, but from a different approach.

    • Anna,

      I think your reading way into the meaning of what fenn maybe saying… He’s talking about dedication to work on the solve. You’re not going to just have a stroll out in the woods and located it without truly working hard to understand the meanings of the poem. I also believe the 100 or even a 1000 years down the road is telling the places he describes, and those meanings should be around even then or at least solvable in the future.

      Magic word there is “should”… If they have been around for a 1000 years it is a good chance they will still in the far future. But anything can happen and there is no complete control. Some don’t like to hear that as they feel the poem was meant to be solve by this generation. some even say the think fenn wants it solve now… I say Bull, to be honest… That is just wishful thinking on their part. Fenn has stated the poem had done it’s job well and everyone as the same “opportunity” to solve it. So this quote seems to hold true to the action of the author.

      But I think the poem is so cleverly written it may take many many years to understand how to read it properly. Many have dropped out of the chase in the past, frustrated and others just claim it’s not there at their brilliant one of a kind solve / location so, the chest must be gone. I think very few give enough credit to how hard this poem truly is and that quote above shows the intent.

      Well that is they way I see it anyways… you can see it as you like. so if you truly feel that Your quote ” …search efforts – by Forrests own statement are a waste of time for at least a hundred years.”

      Maybe you should ask yourself if you have the dedication for the challenge? Everyone has the same opportunity to attempt and solve it… and fenn put 15 years of dedication into writing it. Did you think this was going to be like a crossword puzzle from the Sunday newspaper.

      “I warned that the path would not be direct for those who had no certainty of the location beforehand, but sure for the one who did.” f

      • IMO…Rome was not built in a day. Neither was F’s success. TOTC is a long-term chase process. Not an over night college cram with the correct answers. It takes deep thinking and understanding.
        A heart that beats adventure, confidence, intrigue and the spirit of youth and respect for nature will be the one to figure this Enigma out!
        Be safe! ¥Peace ¥

      • Seeker, I find myself agreeing with you more than I expect to. Great minds, right? I have already decided that it may be the next generation that discovers the chest, but I won’t stop looking because of that. I feel like the kid that Forrest imagines the poem being shown to is him as a child. Someone who will suspend a lifetime wandering the wilds of the Rockies looking for treasures under rocks and bushes. If you listen to his words the ideal finder, at least to him, would be a family making multiple trips into nature, like the Fenns.

      • Kathryn, I would be careful about all the clues not being there when he was a kid. NONE of the “clues” in the poem existed before he wrote the poem after he had cancer. He is very careful when he speaks. Such as when a person asked “did you have to take a plane to get to the place?” He said “No”. Later he said no meant he did not “have to” take a plane. If he he did or did not take a plane is still a big debate. I personally think that he may have had a friend fly him because of security on public flights would be hard to get a 42 lbs on carry on borad and claimed bagged would have been a greater risk. He was on the Cody Museam board and he could have flown there and made a side trip by himself to the spot. All of this is just a possibility, and IMO.

  103. In my mind it would be impossible to associat the chest with something you can’t tell is man made but only F would be able to say for sure.

    • (My bad I wanted to say)
      In my mind it would be impossible for the chest to be associated with a man made structure if you can’t tell it’s man made

  104. Hey Colorado kid, I wasn’t trying to convince anyone. But I can almost guarantee you would be very interested if you had this solve. Those things mentioned (hand drawings, water bodies, Google earth images, web hoster Jen, if I recall correctly) are just extras. I used the poem first. Those clues will take you there. (The other extras just build up confidence).

    • Dak we have a solve that we just know is right. we know exactly how you feel. knowing all these pieces that work and you just know you have IT. we were in our search area and are trying to get back in a few weeks. weather, illness, stupidity, and the greatest my lack of faith in God kept us from doing a better job. i will tell you what i tell anyone KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW AND BELIEVE! you dont have to prove your solve to anyone until you find the TC. just KNOW!!!!!

      • I felt strongly about my solve too and when i got there, no chest. This happened so many times and I had to start over. I was fortunate to hop on a plane and check out the places–did this more than once. But, you never know, you might have the perfect solve and you won’t know unless you actually go through the process. Best of Luck!

      • Thanks. I’m feeling this sort of forum can quickly become beyond what was intended. It started out just asking opinion, and I probably got ahead of myself trying to prove myself. I do that a lot. I think your response is exactly what I needed to hear. Thx. I did go with God on mind and had a good pray at a natural Cross seen on a photograph we took from the year prior. That was important for me to do. No, would not pray to find the chest because if you are like me, my treasure is elsewhere, symbolized by the place I fell.. This is folly. But boy is it fun! I have a story of a lifetime meeting a moose and calve less than 30 feet away! (And I was basically surrounded by tall rock). I was sitting along a creek texting the office and realized they had walked up the stream on me. Ahhhh! That ain’t no horse! I just froze, looked down SLOWLY , and let them pass, then when they were just past parallel to me I stupidly opened up my VELCRO camera pack to get a shot. Momma’s eye popped out at me like she hadn’t seen me! I SAW THE WHITES OF HER EYES!!!!! but thankfully she just quickened her pace and veered away. It left me trembling for awhile. (I got four quick shots before my memory was full!).
        That was thrilling. Glad no chase. 🙂

      • Scott-

        Mine has in the past. Several instances of feet come and go, my current solve may or may not, it just depends on which way I choose to go with it. Indecision is the key to flexibility and more indecision. At this point I have so many different things that fit the poem, I am overwhelmed… My newest theory is starting to feel just as hair-brained as the others. How about you?

      • In a very large picture sort of way. I can’t sit here answering questions, you know. I’m going to need to pull a Forest. 🙂

        • Thanks everybody, especially wildbirder for the reminder. I did ask someone bigger than me for help managing. (I can’t do anything alone). Best.

          • if you have fun and can make memories out in the wild whether its seeing wildlife, trees, plants, flowers or the majesty of the mountains, a kiss in the woods under the bright sun or two times fall in the water that is breathe taking away cold dont stop the trill of the chase. I dont know if God wants us to find this but we hope He does. may God bless all searchers with safe trips, great memories, wonderful pictures, and God willing the TC.

  105. Dak

    I search Central Colorado as well. But we may not be in the same area because I have never seen a Moose in my area I search. Only sheep. 🙂 well they were there for a little while and the last time I went back they were gone. I’m talking a big herd of sheep. 🙂
    Anyway u can trust me 🙂 Im searching one more time next summer. You know the search is costly. 🙂 but it’s Fun, and when you are addicted it’s hard to give it up. 🙂 and me and u and all the others have the same Confidence:) wish u the best

  106. we haven’t said this but we owe Mr Fenn a thank you for all the great times we have. we owe he a debt that cant on be paid back or expressed. thanks to Fenn we are working on our marriage, have had fun and traveled places that were not even on our list of places to go. thanks to Mr Fenn i have seen birds i might never have seen. WOW we had a great time. i think if the TC were found tomorrow we would still go back to our place just to know we COULD hike that place. LOL
    and thanks to all of you on the blog for advice, ideas, knuckle raps when needed, and for friendships i hope last the rest of my life. i have grown a lot and learned so much thank you all.

  107. To my knowledge, this is the first time I’ve been on this thread. I just read through about 90% or more of the posts – wow! And it’s been right under my nose for the last couple of months here on the Dal’s blog site. (How will I ever find the bronze chest full of trinkets?)

    Nearer the beginning of this thread, it was mentioned that it was this person’s opinion that they could drive to within 500 feet of the resting place. IMO, that’s crazy talk. Why would FF take the time to write a poem with clues if one simply had to comb the edge of all roads for 500 feet on each side? Again, IMO, if you ain’t “in the wood”, you ain’t close. I’ll go so far as to say that if you are not at least 2 miles from an “improved road” (not some two track trail) you’re probably not looking in the right spot. Please remember, that this is my opinion.

    I can say, that this thread has helped me confirm by ruling out things that helps me resolve some things for my solve. (Was that ambiguous enough? I sure wouldn’t want any of you to get to my spot first 🙂 )

    • Hehe, that was Dal who said that.

      I concur with him BUT I also agree with Dal that FF used a short cut that is not describe in the poem.

      I also think FF was not attempting to be precise when he mentioned searchers being with x00 ft. My first search, if I ever actually figure out how to make that happen, is 600-700 WAG ft from the end of a road.

  108. How does this look for a hidey space?
    I like the way the clues line up to this object in my solve but I’m concerned it may be too close to what would be considered a “structure”.
    It’s in the woods, on a mountain, with nothing else I can see around besides roads for at least a couple miles, and Google Earth says it’s somewhere around 8 feet across.

  109. Springer42,

    Looks like a pretty cool outcrop

    3 questions-
    Do you have:
    1 wwwh?
    2 hoB?
    3 could an 80 yr old fella climb that cliff?

    • 1 I have what in my opinion is wwwh
      2 ” ” hoB
      3 I think so. two trips there and back from the nearest road would be about 2.75 miles.The climbing up the mountain part would only be about a 20 degree slope (if i’m doing math right).

      • It appears much steeper than that, but it’s a small image. Perhaps you could show us a full screen shot with some coordinates 🙂

        • I’m gonna pass on the coordinate sharing for now. I am hoping someday I’ll be able to make the trip out west and do my own boots on the ground hunting and I don’t want to totally give away my solve yet. 😛
          But here’s a little more zoomed out version with some helpful notes on distances

          • hi windy city on google earth at the top of page are some niffy tools. you can drawn all kinds of line to high a road mountain or what ever.
            folder opens a side bar to store searches
            stick pin allows u to mark points of interest ( i color code all stick pins to a search.)
            ruler allows you to mark paths and can be measured
            the dots and lines allows you to drawn that curves.
            there are some neat things there to play with and help with your searches

          • you are welcomed. its great way to see if a hike is within reason. when we were looking at the Windsor trail and holy ghost trails it really helped to keep the two searches apart by color coding stick pins. you can turn of groups which cuts down on the clutter on maps. another tool is can take tours of mountain peaks to see area below. it very helpful and just fun to do. i forgot to tell you you can color code lines to and manage how wide you need them. i use a line to mark boundaries of parks, the enchanted circle and whole lot more. google earth allows you to turn park boundaries on and off but i like to mark them my self so i can off sections of the map have fun

          • That spot looks familiar, and those rocks in comparison to the trees [ even though the pic is not very clear ] seem to be on the larger side to travel across.

            Just an observation…

  110. hi folks
    when we first started on the chase i believe i google the term “where purple and yellow bloom” and a painting came up of a cave/over hang that was painted by the artist in the space. i think the cave is in Capulin Canyon,in Bandelier Nat. Mont.
    i am setting upa trash file on my computer for things i trash so i can go back and find things like this. LOL

    • Hi wildbirder,

      Somewhere on one of these threads, I can’t seem to find it, you mentioned losing your footing on slippery river rocks while wearing hip boots. Instead of felt bottom soles, look up “korkers”. They are soles with small carbide tips on the bottom that tie or attach to the bottom of your boots. We use them for fishing steelhead in fast running river currents. They work like a charm.


  111. Hi All,

    Why do you think we have never seen a photo of the actual contents of the treasure chest? Surely there must be a photograph of the “real” chest. Maybe even one with Forrest holding it in his hands. Why do you suppose the only thing ever shown is the same one on the cover of the book? Don’t you all want to see the real treasure chest and everything inside of it? Maybe Forrest will post a picture soon.

    Have a safe and enjoyable holiday weekend!


    • Pam,
      I’ve seen all kinds of pictures of the chest. Go buy a copy of the book.

      I guess the better question is why don’t you think the pictures in the book aren’t of the real chest and at least some of the contents?

      I’m sensing a conspiracy theory here folks.

      • hey marvin, hunch here. i suspect conspiracy as well. i think a couple of shots of the bronze box were taken from the grassy knoll. probly CIA agents. its been theorized here at Dal’s that after being shot, the bronze box was flown to its final resting place by FF. nobody knows what happened on the plane, nor even where it landed. all top secret.

        • And I believe that FF was friends was Gov. John Connally. That in addition to having Jackie as a house guest could spell spacyconir (anagram for conspiracy).

    • Why would Forrest post a picture of the chest and contents and spoil the surprise for the person who finds it? For their eyes only until they share it with everyone else or… not. I’m glad he hasn’t released a photo of it and I hope he doesn’t anytime soon. It forecloses the possibility of people making false claims about its contents as proof they have found it. No pic of the chest and its contents? Then a person claiming to have solved the poem will not be able to convince anyone they truly succeeded. Simple really. No mystery here.

      • Raven,

        Would posting photos of Forrest with the chest really spoil the surprise? After all, hasn’t Forrest already listed the contents of the chest? I believe it can be found on this site as well as others.

        To use your logic, the surprise would have already been spoiled by these lists! Also, what would prevent someone from creating a replica of the chest and its contents? We would have nothing to compare it to. I do not know of a searcher, you excluded, that would not want to see what they are searching for.

        Your a rare bird, Raven.


      • Hi Goofy,

        Yes, I know he has posted a picture of the bracelet, but why not other items? Why not a picture of him holding the chest? Just curious. I would love to see all the wonderful, hand picked gems Forrest selected. They mean so much to him that it only makes sense to share it with those involved in The Chase. Don’t you agree?


        • Pam,
          Goofy’s link to the “treasures-bold” post contains multiple pics of a variety of items Forrest put in the chest. What are you looking for? Or do you have an another motive for raising the issue? You obviously want to make some kind of point–why not just say it instead of trying to prompt others to say it for you?

          • Raven,

            Chill my friend. I am simply asking why we can’t see a picture of the chest in all it’s glory. The photos you are referring to are of a floating bronze box and another of floating gold beads. Forrest is proud of his collection, and rightfully so. Why wouldn’t he have pictures of himself holding his prize possession, lovingly referred to as “Indulgence?”

        • the Pam we have asked questions ourselves. there is a place with a few pictures. i dont think he really thought about it. its a guy thing. guys please dont get bugged. also he i think wanted to keep the items a small secret so people could not not try to fake a find. there are all kinds of people and some are not nice. they are phonies and try to do fakes to get attention.

        • Pam he has posted pictures of the Mayan Gold Beads, Gold Nuggets, Gold Nose Rings, Golden Frogs, Gold Coins, Golden Turquoise Necklace, and Gold Dust which is a pretty good sampling of what’s in the chest in my opinion.

          While one part of me wants to see and hear about everything in the chest, the other part doesn’t want to spoil the surprise at finding what else is in there.

          If it were me I don’t think I would post everything that’s in there. It would make it too easy for someone to create a hoax and claim they have found the chest. Like it is now it’s basically impossible to create a credible hoax. That hasn’t stopped some from trying; but they are only making fools of themselves.

          • Goofy,

            I understand what you’re saying. I’m a sentimental gal, and I would love to have a keepsake of some sort to remember being part of the chase. A photo to show my grandchildren one day. It would be nice to have a picture of Forrest holding the chest. It makes it all more real. Yah know what I mean?


          • pam a picture would be nice but for us just the box is enough to feed our imagination. and when its found we will be sick of the pictures

          • Pan said: “I would love to have a keepsake of some sort to remember being part of the chase. A photo to show my grandchildren one day. It would be nice to have a picture of Forrest holding the chest. It makes it all more real.”

            Well Pam, that’s easy. When you actually solve the poem just take the chest to Forrest and I’m sure he will pose for all the pictures you want.

          • Colokid,

            I’m not so sure about him doing that. Wouldn’t that mean The Chase is over? Nobody would want that. After all, Forrest said he thought of everything. Remember?

            If the chest had been found within the first year or so, and it was made public, think of all the fun we would have missed out on. I respectfully disagree with you. I don’t feel he would take that photo with me.


          • Pam,
            It sounds you’re still trying to put forward an agenda based on your discredited solution from last year.

            As I said: If you “actually” solve the poem and collect the chest, I’m sure F would be gracious enough to take a photo even with you.

            I personally think the chase will last for a good long time but if someone finds it tomorrow I don’t have a problem with that.

            Unfortunatly some folks are a little too emotionally and financially involved and will probably be devistated. Nothing lasts forever.

          • Colokid,

            I’m sorry you feel that way. I do agree nothing last forever. Well, unless it’s made out of gold, or in this case bronze.

    • Watch the movie the Prestige last night.

      Great story about competing magicians with a dose of Tesla played by David Bowie.

      Ever magic trick has three parts or acts:

      1. The Pledge
      2. The Turn
      3. The Prestige

      I suggest the Thrill of the Chase is not a hoax at all but a complex magic act only to be pulled off by the most brilliant mind.

      Please read Cutter’s quote from the movie below.

      Cutter: Every great magic trick consists of three parts or acts. The first part is called “The Pledge”. The magician shows you something ordinary: a deck of cards, a bird or a man. He shows you this object. Perhaps he asks you to inspect it to see if it is indeed real, unaltered, normal. But of course… it probably isn’t.

      The second act is called “The Turn”. The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you’re looking for the secret… but you won’t find it, because of course you’re not really looking. You don’t really want to know. You want to be fooled. But you wouldn’t clap yet. Because making something disappear isn’t enough; you have to bring it back. That’s why every magic trick has a third act, the hardest part, the part we call “The Prestige”.

      • 23 –

        I really like that ! I always thought even a “Houdini” magic trick might be involved. And it got me thinking a little bit more.

        I think since we are dealing with “nine” clues – it might be more like a screen play with 9 acts. That is the number of things I had to do to complete what he told us to do in the poem…………… 🙂

        All along the way I kept saying to myself – I must be done – and then there was more. At one point I even e-mailed ff and said Forrest you said this would get easier as we go – and I am still waiting for that to happen. 🙂 I don’t think he thought that was funny.

        And I might add – that was all before – the ground game – which there are directions to – but I have not been successful at completing that part – so maybe I have to take a look at some magic.

        • I look at this as a video game with different levels. Level one, you read the poem and interpret the clues with basic understanding of the clues. Then, you get to level two with a little more knowledge and research and maybe purchase the book. Then, you learn more about Fenn, other solves, Fenn hints and come up with another solve and so on. Until you understand the way he lives so that you have a house architecture that he’ll live in.

          • Into and Rose, I agree…It never hurts to develop a new perspective. Change the lens and change the view once in a while to keep it fun.

      • Hi 23Kachinas — loved that movie! Terrific ending (no spoiler from me) and a good cautionary tale with relevance to TTOTC.

  112. Seeker –

    I don’t really know it the treasure can be found with just the poem – because I haven’t found it yet. After I do find it – I’ll let you know. 🙂

    I’m just not will to take a chance without the book.

    • I think most misunderstand my thoughts Inthechase, My point is if there is an external clue… the word “clue” is what I’m talking about…. Not hint, not helpful, not useful, But a needed piece to the solution of how to find the location of the chest other than the poem using the clues presented, in the poem. Then all those comments of the poem is all you need… are false on face value.

      The one of two things is happening.
      Either there is an external “clue” that must be used, making clue 10 or only 8 in the poem.


      Using an external “clue” [ a needed piece of the puzzle ] outside the poem is the wrong approach. or line of thinking.

      If there is information as Mindy suggest [ right or wrong ]. That say the poem can not be solved with the 9 clues within it, as we been told.

      Again, my point to Mindy was, if the information she seems to have located from the book is the “only way” to solve the poem…
      The something is seriously wrong.

      I’ll stay with the original reading of ” So I wrote a poem containing nine clues that if followed precisely, will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure.”

      One thing ya can say for Mindy’s ideas… they can get a discussion to light up with many searchers involved. That is always a good thing.

      • It is possible that The Blaze may be an external clue that tells the searcher they are in the right path and are in the general area of the chest.

        • There was a Q&A about; the Blaze being in the poem or only in the field. Forrest response was not to answer the question. I’ll add that it took him almost 30 mins by his count, to decline answering as well.

          I think there is a good possibility that the blaze is in the poem, but not so much a single location. I think the blaze may need to be designed or created by the searcher to locate the chest. and that information comes from the poem… But that is just a thought.

          • The word “blaze” is in the poem.
            The blaze that is refered to is in the field. So the answer would be Both. I giving an answer some people would have taken such a simple statement to be a convoluted clue. Let him save his hints for something more descriptive.

      • If 200 years from now, someone finds only the TTOTC book page 131/132 (the poem page). No book no nothing. Can the chest be found?

        on these pages there is no reference to Forrest Fenn, no title of the poem. All it says is there is a treasure somewhere north of santa fe and there are 9 clues.

        FF said he has thought of everything. If the chest cannot be found only using the poem, then he has not thought of everything.

        • UA,

          This reminds me of a thread from Sidncharlie… lets assume…

          The short version was… your great grandfather hand you the poem and say go and find the chest. No explanation, no book, no after the fact comments, Q&A’s SBs etc.

          Can the chest be found?

          This was the start of the “poem purist” debate. But it is a great discussion, and a brilliant thought process. I for one miss SidnCharlie’s imput. I think some of the more seasoned searchers would back me up on that as well.

          • I believe that Fenn believes that it would be possible.

            I don’t have the full quote at hand but he essential said the poem is sufficient for the average person to find it. This is a pretty unqualified statement. It strongly imples anyone without any special knowledge does have a chance.

            It would be nice to have it narrowed to 4 states and the Rocky Mts but it wasn’t rolled out that way initially. My guess is he wasn’t sure just how tough the clues would be but after he saw how it was going he felt better about releasing some extra tidbit.

            Ultimately that question won’t really be answered until we all know the solution. I would guess at 1 or two general reactions: A) Why didn’t I think of that? or B) Are you kidding me?

          • IMO a great treasure hunt is just that: a puzzle, deep thinking and a map.

            Now, my imagination is a little rusty so i need help with that. I think that is where the book and the SBs come in.

  113. Poem vs Book:

    This is the way I look at it. If Forrest says all you need to get to Santa Fe is a good pair of running shoes. Then he says, “I suggest you drive, bus, train or fly there because it will make your trip faster.”

    Sure one can walk there but that is no easy task, but if you take his advise the trip will be much more enjoyable.

    Yup the poem works for some, but why torture yourself?

    • Just one question… do you believe the book holds a needed clue, that without it the poem can not be solvable?

      • Seeker,
        I do not believe that the book holds a clue and that is not the memoir’s purpose. It’s purpose it to help one turn a very vague 9 clues with nearly infinite possibilities to something for manageable.

        • Great, that is what i wanted to hear. I believe that as well… now the question is, how much of that [ the book ] is needed? I know this is truly a question with no answer… at least from the searchers aspect. But if the hints and sprinkles of information in the book helps understand anything and not intended to aid the seeker… is there truly a purpose for them?

          Anything helpful is good, yes. But are we the readers over shooting and seeing way to much information that sends us into a frenzy of wrong conclusions. The same with the SB’s, comments, statements etc. I ask because for the last year or more… of a five year process, I see more and more use all the above as needed to complete their solve and less on the poem telling us itself.

          “There are nine clues in the poem, but if you read the book (TTOTC), there are a couple…there are a couple of good hints and there are a couple of aberrations that live out on the edge.”


          “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem. The chapters in my book have very subtle hints but are not deliberately placed to aid the seeker. Good luck in the search. f”

          “All the information… in the poem”

          When I read these… I don’t see a magnifying glass needed… I don’t see dozens and dozens hints… I don’t see “clues” in the book…I don’t see deliberate help either… I see information that can be understood, if you use the poem to solve the clues. a confirmation style help.

          I can be completely wrong… all i’m saying is, are we attempting to force fit anything because we just simple are missing something from the poem itself?

          • Seeker, Wolf and others following along,

            The book is a “winnowing fork” or a “screen mesh” with which to sift through the chaff or gravel to help us see clearly how the poem clues stand out as wheat or gold.


          • Seeker,
            I think this is a great summary of the correct approach.

            IMO, many folks use the book and SB’s like a drunk man uses a lamp post….for support not illumination.

            I feel the book can be used (to a small degree) to help shine a light in the clues…not substitute for them.

          • Colokid,

            That’s a great analogy, support not illumination… Can i use that in the future? lol.

          • swwot,

            I never heard the term “winnowing fork” so i had to look it up… I guess you can teach an old dog… lol

          • Seeker – not sure how old a dog you are, but my kids sure think I’m old as dirt. 🙂

            Growing up we had some Amish friends and as a youngster we actually used some winnowing forks – but I think it was oats or rye we were working with.

            Good luck on your chase…

          • Seeker,
            I interoret line one on page 133 ttotc to leave open the possibility that there are clues in the book. I understand this is in tension with other statements made by f. Tension causes me to try and understand things better, perhaps not with a magnifying glass though. ;^) Can the verbal statements f made be understood differently?

          • uken2it,

            Man! I don’t like that word clue… lol
            But that is just me. I can see how that line may and i say may very lightly lead to that… Yet i see I wrote a poem… Fenn also said he choose the avenue of a poem to present the nine clue [ I believe this is found on MW’s ] For me that still states the poem contains the clue and no “clues” in the book.

            I wish i could see it different, I just can wrap my head around, a need to know ‘clue’ to solve the poem is in the book other than the poem itself is in the book.

            Fenn has answered these types of questions in the past. ‘are the clues in the book… yes, because the poem is in the book.’

            So many time the question was raised and never did fenn say a “clue” in the book is needed. Maybe my blinders are on too tight.

            I know this is not a popular topic. I just see so many wild ways of spotting a clue outside the poem… I have to ask, is this a correct method to solve the poem?

          • Seeker,
            I have been a poem only seeker for most of my chase years. Then came the new map that I found out about several months ago. I started following the blog again and found so may hints/clues that f shared. I was irritated a bit because, as you say, f said all I needed was the poem. I started down rabbit holes and gave that up for the most part. I do pay attention now to others ideas, most recently Mindy’s.
            I am pretty much in agreement with you except I am willing to accept that there may be something else to aid us in ‘solving’ the poem.

            Also, the solving of the poem may be different than seeking the location. If so there may be outside help in unlocking/solving the poem. IMO

          • “Force fitting” probably. I know that it was my demise. I saw something that connected with the book. I ignored everything else and forced the connection to fit and lost. As soon as I “removed” all the stuff in the book, I enabled myself to listen to the true message encoded in the poem. While I believe I see similarities in my solve and in the book, I ignore them in my solve and stick with what the poem is telling me. My solve seems better and more logical without the book.

          • Uken2it,

            The new book and the map. I’ll be honest when the map came out, I didn’t know what to think. Was this a sale perspective or an attempt to liven up the chase? why was the map not included in the first book… couple reason I can see is [ Sorry wolf.} Canada gone, also it shows or indicates national parks, tribal lands etc.

            Any of that helpful, I would say yes, as it shorten the search area by 1/2. knowing the treasure chest is hidden within the shaded area helpful, not really we knew that prior. So what is it about the map that was needed to be placed in the new book? maybe Mindy is on to something…

            And don’t get me wrong, I read the blog and take in almost everything others say… it keeps my mind from drying up on a one thought or idea. Yet like you said;

            “. I started following the blog again and found so may hints/clues that f shared.”

            Is this the hole? seeing “clues” because the poem is difficult, that there must be a clue that fenn is giving us in another form because no one as got a clue past the first two? Sure fenn has given helpful information anyone would be a fool not to see that, but handing out clues…

            If i was to say to you, I think the poem is set up to actually show you how to read itself and can be somewhat confirmed by things stated in the book. Would those things be clues? This is my dilemma, a clue should have confirmation from the book if you can see the poems information first.
            This thought falls in line with what you just said… ” Also, the solving of the poem may be different than seeking the location. ”

            I think most of the poem is a description of an action, and why the first clue is so important. The rabbit hole imo is attempting to physically follow the clues. Which at first read, the poem seems to be saying. fenn stated;

            “I mean, there’s people driving down the street looking for a blaze, because that’s one of the clues, but you can’t start in the middle of the poem and find the treasure, I don’t think, I mean, it would be a miracle if someone did.”

            “I don’t know of anyone that’s inside of 200 ft, but you know, I don’t know, they tell me where they are, and some of them exactly where they are, and so that’s how I know that. But so many of them tell me that they’re in a spot that’s in close proximity to the treasure, but they don’t know that they’re that close to it”

            I see these and ask, if some have gotten the first two clues… why didn’t they know and why did the go past the other seven.

            My thought is the seven remaining clue are not what we think they are and the first two clues work together. But we may only know of the one clue… the second clue, and ignore the first.

            Mindy has started a great discussion and with the amount of folks chiming in… we all seem interested in this chat. Is there external clues needed. Such as the map.

          • Seeker,
            I mentioned the tension between the book saying there are clues in the stories yet f saying there are no clues besides the poem. This could be interpreted as yes clues in the book besides the poem or the poem contains the clues. If it is referring to the poem the perhaps a hint might be a link between ‘stories’ and the poem. I have very partial solves in this respect.

            Tension: the new map narrows the search areas, yes. The highlighted areas are the new area. Highlighted by colors or the bleached areas? Bleached is a definition of highlight. IMO

            Btw I search the colored areas.

          • Seeker,

            I think you hit the nail on the head when you shared this quote: “Also, the solving of the poem may be different than seeking the location.”

            I am a relative newbie to this blog, and it may be a bit naive for me to claim, but I think I have solved the poem (at least in my minds eye, I can see how all the parts of the poem fit together to lead me right to Indulgence).

            Like most, I am still seeking out the location from which to start using the poem which will lead me to the treasure.

            I just hope I do not become too disappointed when I finally am able to put boots on the ground near my primary starting spot.

    • Wolf, If Forrest said “all you need is the poem”- then all you need is the poem. There are nine clues in the poem, not nine clues in the poem and one or two outside of it. There are a few hints sprinkled in the book to “help” you identify the clues in the poem.

      If he said all you need to get to SF is a good pair of shoes to get there then taking a car, bus, train, or flying there just might make you miss the next clue. You probably should just do like he said and walk. You may find the next clue that way.

      I would suggest to follow his words to look for the nine clues in the poem and precisely follow them. I think you are torturing yourself by going off on that bus, train or plane. IMO you will end up going down the rabbit hole and miss the clue’s on the way.

      • I agree with you, Ritt, 100%. Let’s say for example, the poem is written by an “anonymous author” but he/she tells us, that’s all you need (which he did). Same rules apply, find the 9 clues and they will lead you to the treasure. Reading the book from same “anonymous author” can give insight, perhaps? I try and it’s very hard to read this poem because I now know who wrote it. So, instead of spending countless years on trying to find out who Mr. Fenn is, I’m trying to concentrate on just the poem, not the author. What if Mr. Fenn didn’t give us the many clues (or any) thus far, how would one proceed or even start for that matter. Just a thought….

        • I have to think that when Forrest says read the book, read the poem, read the book again, and repeat….he is saying you may get insight from the book that can help interpret the poem.

          Insight into Forrest Fenn, and where his special place may be.

          • As looking at what we have learned about Forrest through the last few years A person would have to consider that his Special spot is a very unique one of a kind place like no other in comparison !!!!

          • Woody,
            I would like to think that as well…

            But one of fenns comments was;
            “I thought it was the most atrocious thing that I’d ever done. But in the back of my mind I told myself if I’m sorry tomorrow I can go back and get the treasure chest.”

            This is a strange comment as I just don’t know where he is leading up to. Is it the act of just hiding the trove? where he hid the trove? how he hid it… why would he be sorry about whatever it is.

            If I could ask fenn one question about the chase it would be to clarify this comment.

        • Lois,

          Your points are solid and I personally agree with most… but one. You can’t dismiss the author completely, only for the simple fact is he is not anonymous. I do get your point of “what if” we didn’t know. The book is about the author life and memories, either way anonymous or not we would still have that insight of that person.

          So if the stories told of a shoemaker and his love for fast cars and he wrote a poem with clues to a trove… that insight would help in understanding the person who wrote it and maybe show an influence in the poem. This book does that IMO. And that alone is helpful. The key word is helpful.

          We the searchers have been lucky enough to know the Author and he has spent time to give information, and that is all great and helpful as well. The reason for me personally, If I had never known of the comment… there are many WWWH in the Rockies, and most are North of SF… I would still be on my first brilliant, one of a kind, perfectly ‘wrong’ solution.

          So in this case we have been fortunate to know the author beyond his writings. The real question fall in where the clues are? The statement above was informative but not a clue. And this is where I think the most confusion is when it comes to an actual clue… I will always think the poem is what hold the only clues needed. But I will use what is available to help me in that conclusion.

          This debate of Poem vs Book [ or poem purist ] has been around for as long as I can remember. It always raises some good discussions and at times bring out a few tempers. IMO it is always good to rehash the older discussion to get a fresher perceptive, not only from newer searchers, but from newer information as well.

          Again you made some solid point, so I appreciate that.

          • Seeker, thank you. I threw the word “insight” out for all to ponder the book. As Mr. Fenn has pointed out the “poem is in the book”. I just hope, another poem in the book, is not the real one, ha, ha. In Mr. Fenn’s book, he states, ” I wrote a poem…..” Maybe I’m just playing devil’s advocate. Also agree with you too, Chief Joseph, read and re-read.

          • I have toyed with the epitaph on page 147 since it is shaped as a rainbow but it became clear to me that the poem pg 132 is clearly the poem for me to study.

      • Ritt,
        I disagree with the consistency of your analogy.
        You said, “I would suggest to follow his words to look for the nine clues in the poem and precisely follow them.”

        So if you insist on following Fenn’s advise then you must also follow this:
        “Get the Thrill of the Chase and read it; and then go back and read the poem, over and over and over again. And then go back and read the book again but slowly looking at every little abstract thing that might catch up in your brain, that might be a hint that will help you with the clues. Any part of some is better than no part of any. ” – Moby Dickens book signing

        I have no issue with poem only approach but one. If one has a poem only solution then they should be able to use the book to confirm the hints.

        Forrest dubbed this “The Thrill of the Chase” which implies it is designed so that the finder will have to travel down a few rabbit holes. That experience will make victory taste that much sweeter as per the thrill of the chase.

        • Wolf,

          I responded to your post above before reading this one, and you said…

          “I have no issue with poem only approach but one. If one has a poem only solution then they should be able to use the book to confirm the hints.”

          Yes, confirm. that is what I think the book is for. But yet you would still need to understand the poem first… that is the difficult part. And i’ll add that your book does have many examples of just that process. I also believe, and have said before… Your comment that the poem is, “it is designed so that the finder will have to travel down a few rabbit holes.”

          This is a very important assumption for me. Other wise the poem would have been solved by some of the very intelligent folks on this hunt.

          “I’m not flippant about this. It’s not something somebody is going to be able to do on spring break or a Sunday afternoon picnic. I’m looking a hundred years down the road, maybe a thousand years down the road. People don’t understand that.”

          For my line of thinking… this is 15 years of hard work to design a poem that will take the same dedication as the author put into it. Fenn has stated [ and i don’t have the quote at the ready] The poem looks like simple words… but he worked hard on it… Nothing i have read or heard fenn say more than just that… the poem.

      • Well stated. After all, didn’t ff say that searchers were overcomplicating it and passing it by?

      • Poem Purists, … IMO, “All you need to find the treasure is the poem” … is like saying: All you need to graduate is a diploma, or all you need to vote is a ballot. Deciphering the poem assumes you bring a body of knowledge to it, and if you don’t want the information that is in the book to be a part of your body of knowledge, so be it. The Less-is-More lane is open. Fenn mentions both a ‘narrow focus’ and the ‘broad picture’ … so his messages are mixed, it is a puzzle after all.

        • The funny part about that is fenn is the one that said… All you need is the poem.

          The narrow focus and the broad picture… I think you are not accurate. Big picture and tight focus where comments on the word that is key and over simplifying the solve.

          Unless you are talking about two other comments

          • I’ve been reading the posts in the blog and it seems like we have criteria that needs definition. Like each clue/possible clue needs to be listed/outlined. For myself, i created a grid and put each sentence on one side and what I translated it to on the other side with the rationale. Once that solve was complete but didn’t lead me to the chest, then I started over with a new grid. the blog is a good tool but could we make a suggestion?

  114. i’m looking to mindy here- i’ve had the unmistakeable blaze for a year and 4 months, and THE as “a” word that is key, from that blaze. Do you think it’s that specific “the” the string is pointing to or the in general? and if this isn’t the blaze you’re referring to, there may be 9 of them.

    • and mindy, “The Right ear has been stretched and a shadow added. If the EAR is different on one picture, it would be different on the other as well. The EAR evidence is extremely compelling”

      A s
      A lone
      b old
      c cret
      (no d) — as we’re all in agreeance with?
      e nd
      f ound
      g aze
      h ear
      i f

      look quickly down.

      (alphabet- 2 c’s. as in Ccret=secret. blaze as in A’s.

      hear me all and listen good:

      (here it is, one of my solves… )

      s lone, old cret, nd ound aze ear, f

      listen good:

      sloane, old cret, end down daisy ear, f

      sloane wrote about “days eye” = daisy
      sloane wrote about the alphabet
      simple. complicated.

      i give you title to the the gol(d.) As I = days eye = daisy

      i have the blaze, if you are convinced.

      • Leigh,

        That’s really interesting. I’ll look into that because I found the daisy and old cret to, which is pretty amusing in itself. 🙂

        • Looking closely one can say there are hundreds of daisies on the page. No stems though. IMO and I am not convinced that this will aid a seeker.

  115. I personally toiled over the poem for almost two years before I finally caved and bought the book(TTOTC). It was at that point that I had come to the conclusion that Fenn had introduced us all to the Chase via the publishing of his book. It made sense to me that by reading the book up to the poem on page 132, one could gain insight as to who this guy is and what would motivate him to hide a treasure and dare anyone to go searching for it. Without the book, theoretically, a person would not know that he even hid a bronze box full of treasure without relying on hand me down information dipped in innuendo piled on top of a gazillion opinions along the way. Forrest has graced Dal’s blog with a myriad of stories and even offered up a few hints along the way through his interactions with the media, and answering select questions over at Jenny’s.
    My personal conclusion is, that Forrest conveyed his original message and challenge within the confines of TTOTC and let human nature take over. That is how most legends are made.
    The Thrill for me is a challenge to learn more and enjoy the adventure with those who are like me and need to know the answers. My next trip is in the late fall, to a location, somewhere in the Rockies, North of Santa Fe. This is a slow ride for me. A ride to embrace and enjoy…Boy,oh boy, time sure does change people. I sure was in a rush when this all came about. Stay safe folks and enjoy the ride!!!

  116. Mindy,

    You wrote – ” I often think another poem is the poem”.

    I have often thought of this possibility as well. Almost something like a magician would do – distraction and slight of hand. In this case it is slight of words.

    So by saying, “all you need is the poem and a good map”, he might be telling us that we need another poem, “THE poem”, to unlock/understand his poem.

    I struggle with this concept though, because now we have to have knowledge of other poetry/poets; unless THE poem is also in the book. If we conclude that THE poem is in the book, then we must consider that perhaps there is a good map in the book as well.

    So, with that line of reasoning, one might conclude that the map in TFTW is not “a good map” and is presented to distract. I say this because the map in TTOTC would be the only good map if we concede that THE poem is a secondary poem found in TTOTC. Therefore, the purpose of including the map in TFTW is only to broaden the scope of the search area.

    Do I believe what I just wrote above? No. But I think about it a lot.

    The other thing I think about a lot is why did FF remove his phone number in subsequent printings of TTOTC? Or more importantly, why was it there in the first place if he expected people from all over the world to be searching in four states?

    Putting a phone number in a published book seems, to me, that the book was written for a local audience. If written for a local audience, would one expect those who purchased the book to start looking in Wyoming!? I don’t think so. I think they would all be looking a little closer to home.

    With that said, one can now argue Fenn’s reason for placing the map in TFTW – to get people looking beyond NM. AND if you take on that argument you can logically assume the placement of the map rules NM out of the search area.

    Wooh! Writing that hurt my head a little.

    Scott W

    • That gave Mr a good laugh Scott… And you are correct. The reason for any post IMO is to make one think.

      Thanks for the chuckle

    • hey Scott! hunch here. does the phone number in the book include the area code? if so then he wanted non locals to call him. i think it has something to do with the old saying…when you are young you attend weddings and when we get old we attend funerals. maybe all of FF friends are dead and by including his phone number in the book he could make new friends. i aint gonna call him though. because when he was at that party at suzanne somers he felt like a dime at a dollar convention, so that makes me a wooden nickel.

      • Hunch,

        You have a very valid question about the area code. I don’t know how far the Santa Fe area code extends.

        I live in Round Rock, and it shares the area code with Austin. However, it doesn’t share the area code with Temple just 49 miles away.

        Without an area code someone in Temple wouldn’t know how to reach me without guessing. Am I in Austin, Dallas, Crockett, …?

  117. After I wrote that I thought to myself – I finally wrote a “Seeker” length post. 🙂

    I also thought – And I bet he will be the first to rely!

    Scott W.

      • OK, I’m calm now. Scott, I follow and agree with all you’ve said, except for your final conclusion… “the map rules NM out of the search area”. I think TFTW and the map were simply a smart entrepreneurial response to a hot market. When the TTOTC caught fire, Fenn expanded his stock and watched business & legend grow. I don’t think they add anything to the Chase.

        The phone # was a curiosity experiment, he saw the result, and is now done with it. If he was younger and not in retirement mode, I think he would find some way to make that experiment pay off too. Those short interviews Dal recorded expose more of his nature than his stories do. My favorite is the lecture he gave to college art students advising them to “hire a publicity agent”. He’s not only a collector, he’s a farmer, he grows things.

        • OS

          I get it. I don’t put too much weight on what I wrote above, but that’s kind of how my brain works.

          The phone number in the book still bothers me a lot. More than anyone can imagine.

          When I put everything together, one thing I must consider as a conclusion, is that the map in TFTW might rule NM out.

          At first, I thought, “Wow! it can only be in NM.” I mean, a book that can only be purchased in a little bookstore by locals and passersby? With the home phone number of the author?

          Then the phone number disappeared.

          Then the map in TFTW came out. Why?

          I can see only two reasons: distract from NM, or correct an assumption that the chest is located in NM. If the later is correct, then the chest is not in NM.

          I tied Mindy’s comment about THE poem not being TTOTC poem into the whole context, and my previous post is where I landed.

          Scott W.

          • Well, we’ll just have to wait and see. Maybe the phone issue would be a good Q on MW. I think he found out his social boundaries were not universal, and got some pretty invasive attention. Maybe he was testing something. Maybe he hoped for something. Time for another vignette.

          • I’m not questioning why he removed the phone number.

            I am asking myself, “Why would any author put his phone number in his book unless he didn’t plan for the publication to extend beyond a local distribution”?

            IMO – TTOTC was initially written for the locals. I’m not suggesting the chest is in NM.

            The question – Why did he later define the search area to four states if the book was intended for locals (… and it clearly was IMO)?

            Is it because the locals where wasting their time in NM (the chest is not there), or because he feared everyone would descend on NM unless he broadened the scope?

            I do not know. Just something that eats away at me.

            Scott W

          • I think you’ve locked yourself into an either/or answer, and I doubt they are the only two reasonable choices.
            I doubt hoards would descend on NM looking for treasure because he posted his phone number, or that he needed to expand the hunt borders to keep hoards out of NM. Posting his phone number was unusual, but the tales of his childhood exploits, his military experience, celebrity clientele, gutsy business acumen, scientific contributions, general knowledge, story telling skills, etc, AND, hiding a personal fortune for some lucky finder … describes a larger-than-life personality. Posting his phone number just seems part of the idiosyncratic package. It does not send the same signals to me as it does to you. But it is interesting to think about. Maybe my sleep tonight will be troubled. THANKS A LOT, SCOTT!

          • If he really wanted a red neck guy from Texas with no job and a family to look for the treasure he would put his phone number in the book to be approachable.

            Allowing for contradiction, not many red necks are going to pay that much for a book.

        • q1werty2,

          For a short time I thought the same about a single store for the sale of the book… phone number aside, it raised the same question for me as well, was this only intended for a smaller area. Then thinking that there is a millionish to be sought, fenn would have had to ponder that, the word of such a large trove would spread just by word of mouth [ in this day and age internet ].

          So how clever is the man? I’m sure he knows the owner of the book store, I’m sure he enjoys NM, I’m sure he would like to influence people to visit that area… and I would think that he thought eventually this would spread [ time line aside ] I think he put thought to it.

          IMO it would have worked out well for the area and it did, worked out well for the book store as well. and maybe it worked for the poem as well. It would make the reader ponder just what we are right now… Could the chest be in the Mountains farther North then we originally suspected? Which automatically lengthen how long it may take to locate the chest. The prize amount [ even though truly unknown] did that just that as well… spread the search and interest.

          I dare say if this was a plastic box with a few troy ounces of gold… there would be such an interest.
          personally after i thought about it, I said… yep, that was very clever.

          • Interesting take on it. I appreciate your response, and I will chew on it a bit.

            I seems you are suggesting the intent all along was organic growth; a snowball effect if you will.

            He started with the smallest seed possible and just let it go. If I step back from it all, then it looks a lot like an experiment.

            Scott W.

          • Funny you should use that analogy. I think the poem works the same way. Let everyone think you need to find a point and grow / go from there. I say you may need to see the big picture before you see the point.

  118. Scott-
    I don’t believe Forrest has historically hidden his phone or email from folks. Folks call him a collector but I think he is better defined as a trader. He loves the banter of the trade. He likes the small but important posturing and gesturing of the game of a good trade. But above all, Forrest does not intend to miss opportunities to get what he likes. A successful trader puts himself out there and Forrest was always advertising his interest in expanding his collection. He did this by being visible. His phone and later his email have always been easily obtained. He wanted folks to contact him. He did not want to be difficult to find. He wanted folks with the goods to reach him first. He wanted first dibs and he was willing to pay top price for top quality items. He once told me that he never really had any problems being accessible to traders.

    His home phone and email can be found in some other books and in trade magazines where he often advertised. He published his home phone number at least once on a full page ad in the Santa Fe paper and asked everyone to call and wish Peggy a happy birthday.

    My point is that I don’t think you should put any weight on the phone number appearing in the first printing but not subsequent printings. I think what OS stated is very likely what happened. Forrest underestimated the widespread interest in his treasure hunt and the quality of some of the individuals that might use the number. He and Peggy have both picked up the phone more than once only to hear threats and inappropriate rantings. Forrest is very protective of Peggy and those kinds of calls are very offensive to him…as they would be to most of us. But more important, his hearing has been getting worse since the treasure was hidden and communication on the phone has been getting much more difficult for Forrest. He rarely agrees to live radio phone interviews anymore because he cannot depend on hearing what the radio host asks over the phone.

    I believe Forrest has said that he didn’t think he would sell many books and was surprised by how quickly the word spread.

    I don’t believe the phone number was put there because he only intended the chase to be a local interest story. I think that both the degeneration of his hearing and the offensive phone calls played a major role in his decision to remove his phone number from later printings.

    • Sorry to learn more about Forrest’s hearing. Makes sense.

      Really wish people wouldn’t have bothered him and his wife Peggy. Hopefully now they have peace in their final years together snug as a bug in a Santa Fe rug.

      • we agree with Dal that Mr Fenn wants to be reachable ,but having treats on the phone is frighting and mean. i email Mr. Fenn about the ball of string a while back and shared a story from my childhood. he answer my email but the question of what happen to the string remain a mystery for me. i a few days ago email him again and he told me he didn’t know what happened but it was understood his mother got rid of it. i also email him to share what i said on the blog about the fun we have had and he thanked us for our kind word. Mr Fenn strikes me as a gentlemen and does like to email but only if it polite and nothing about the clues etc. i still surprise us that he would take time to email someone with all he has on his plate

    • Always good to have your perspective Dal. You are always willing to say what you think and give the chase a clearer view of the man behind the curtain. Thank you. Hope you had a good summer searching. I kept expecting to see you on a trail, hiking out as I go in, but I guess you are on another level in your quest. I had noticed the hearing aid was not really working for Forrest in the Moby Dick interview, sorry to hear that it is persisting. On the other hand we should all be grateful to have this opportunity to know Forrest better. If there were no scrapbooks or interviews none of us would have so much insight into the life of this great American icon. In my opinion we would all be less fulfilled and enriched as individuals without them. Forrest if you are reading this, thank you for your boldness and bravery, and thank you for allowing the world to learn about your life. Your shining light is a lighthouse to so many people, not all gracious, that you must know now your legacy is secure. You are truly an inspiration to so many people and an example us all. To quote Dylan Thomas,

      “Do not go gentle into that good night,
      Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
      Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

      Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
      Because their words had forked no lightning they
      Do not go gentle into that good night.

      Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
      Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
      Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

      Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
      And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
      Do not go gentle into that good night.

      Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
      Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
      Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

      And you, my father, there on the sad height,
      Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
      Do not go gentle into that good night.
      Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    • Mr. Fenn get caller ID. After reading Forrest gets mail I can only imagine the phone calls he must get. I think he has shared enough of himself and his life with us. I look forward to making a phone call to Mr. Fenn but only after I’ve “stumbled ” upon the chest. Until then I believe it’s only fair for us to just visit him in the wood. IMO.

    • Dal,

      Thanks for the response. There is something you said that perked my eyebrow –

      “I believe Forrest has said that he didn’t think he would sell many books and was surprised by how quickly the word spread.”

      With that in mind, I still have to ask, Who did he write the book for?

      It’s not just the phone number, but several things combined.

      I need to drop this topic on the blog until I can get what’s in my head to come out in writing. It is obviously something that I am personally hung up with, and it is clear to me that no one sees the dilemma as I see it (a situation requiring a choice between equally undesirable alternatives). Maybe it is because there is nothing to see, and I just need to nudge the needle a little so I can continue on. 🙂

      BTW – I love this blog. I really like the way people offer constructive criticism, and it’s most always in a way that moves things forward without trampling all over one of another.

      This is a Thinker’s blog, and that’s a good thing.

      Scott W

  119. Hi dal,

    Might anyone know anything about the Serial # of Forrest’s Jolly Green Giant Laos rescue helicopter having been identified?

    Been wondering and researching without much luck.

    Couple more more questions if I may: Alberta, Canada ever been discussed in the context of being related to a clue? ( I know about the location exclusion), but…. – Additionally, the train station in either WY or MT where a young Forrest paid to be able to take a shower; any thoughts?

    I appreciate your time,


    • Goofy, This Dal guy seems to have stirred up a bunch of trouble about phone numbers and such. I’d keep an eye on him.

      Back to the hidey spot. I located a spot with some juicy characteristics relating to a specific type of geology. Then, as I searched ever deeper in the bottomless internet, I discovered this deposit, though unique, is not limited in extent to the degree I thought. Grrrrr.

      So. Again. Boots on the ground are required. The Blaze.

      Forrest has said (somewhere) the clues get easier. Me thinks he must not include the blaze in that. I think I’ll put that out in the Blaze Channel.

        • Lol… at first I thought this said ” a link to where the clues get easier” 🙂 I can’t remember where he said that maybe one of the earlier interviews? I need more coffee. 🙂

          • Very good listen, Colokid!
            You have word for word what he said.
            You found a real gem in this audio piece.
            That “… have to learn where the first clue is…they get progressively easier after you discover where the first clue is…”
            I also found a couple of other tidbits:
            11:45 “The clue is the treasure is higher than SEVEN, than 5 thousand feet above sea level”
            I think Fenn was knowing in his mind that the TC is higher than 7,000′ in elevation & slipped an actual clue by mistake. I believe this happens when your thinking of the place & the words come out naturally true from the heart. He caught himself & stated 5,000′.
            The Olive jar has a tin lid dipped in wax to last 1,000 years, I commented a few days ago I thought it was a bail lid. I was wrong but either way I could see TC in a river.

  120. The crew chief on that JG is in NM I believe. I have no idea if he follows the chase. He would know all. You might try that angle.
    There are also a couple pics of it around that might provide a number.

    I don’t remember anything from Alberta.

    The train station was in West Yellowstone, MT. Many folks have tried that angle and literally hundreds of other ideas in West Canyon Street for Canyon down and the train station water tower for water high…there have also been solutions ending up at the Geyser where Forrest worked…and other places Forrest worked in town.

    The Fenn Haven Cabins have been worked over pretty good as well as the Dude Motel. There are a lot of places around West Yellowstone where Forrest spent his summers that have been through a magnifying glass by the sounds of what folks write here and elsewhere.

    But my question is how do any of those places provide a place for him to end his life and allow his body to return to the earth? Doesn’t seem likely that any place in or even close to town would not notice a decaying human body.

  121. I wonder if, when Forrest’s body was found and the original poem, finding the chest would still have been difficult. In other words the chest and Forrest do not share precisely the same space but rather, are nearby each other. So Forrest’s last vision could be the pines and flowing water and perhaps mountain vistas, yet near his body..still hidden would be the chest. The poem alluding to it but not revealing its location. The finder would still have to search for it. The legend of the Fenn Treasure would have thus been triggered even if he had ended his life at that place.

    • Thusly is why I asked the question in the “9 clues” page!!! But you worded it perfectly.

      Let’s say his body is in the cave/cavity and that the treasure is 30 or so feet away in the stream! couldn’t be visa versa ?!?! Or could it?

    • I agree with your assessment Dal. It’s feasible that Forrests body could lay on a desert hill in the pines exactly 200 feet in altitude on top of a cavern which houses his treasures bold. Who knows where the entrance is. To make it more interesting the hillside is a yellow/gold twin butte; shaped like a female human “chest”
      The “chest” is exposed. LOL – just like F’s 13 yr old humor.
      It also looks like a golden heart and Lazy B – on its side – the B.laze

    • I’m trying to put serious thought to this. So fenn goes and does what his intent was in the beginning… does this change the meaning to the poem? No other information / after the fact comments to be known.

      Maybe, hypothetically… he write the poem and the book… sends it to the book store goes and that is it.
      Could the WWWH be describing that action? Reading into the poem as WWWH the body, symbolically telling the reader as such by interpretation the poem as ~ canyon; a 6′ hole with shear sides and a lower level, nor far but too far to walk… the hole. Put in below hoB or Mother Earth … all symbolic, saying come find my final resting place?
      Emphasis on place.

      Would match up with the original ” take the chest and leave my bone” comment. So if we are not looking for water, what are we looking for? Does this make the first clue something else? and why other searcher may have not known, the significance of where they were.

      Now about the chest… if those hypothetical clues above tell of a place and the place is found… can the chest be near but not exactly at? I would have to wonder if there is a marker / headstone of sorts at that location, [ maybe preset ] that may indicate a way to the chest. or We need to rethink the last two stanzas.

      Yes it possible the poem was intended to be read as if this departure actually happened.
      But did we know that in the beginning???
      If I’m not mistaken the book tells how much fun it was to collect thing he would leave a chest to be found while he was still “alive”… [close enough for horses]… Not till later did we know his original intent was to go and pass on at the same spot. [ going by memory, I don’t have all the book, just guessing here. ]

      So at least part of the poem IMO would have to explain just that action.
      Not only looking for the chest, but fenn himself. this could be why it took him 15 years to perfect… he got well and ruined the story.
      Indecision is the key to flexibility.

      Can the chest be somewhere else, near by? Whatever the true answer to this question is Dal… it makes me wonder more what the first copy of the poem looked like.

      • Seeker,
        I like that imagery. My first solution was all about death and dying and burial. I ended up around Sepulcher Mountain. Maybe I should dust that off and take another shot.

    • Dal, I have this picture in my mind. Forrest leaning against a decent size rock ( perhaps a pillar rock ) With his arm laying over the chest.

      I do recall Forrest saying something about laying over the chest.

  122. It occurred to me, that hiding something like a double eagle (1 oz. gold US $20 coin) and crafting clues to its location might learn me something about….finding.

    Inspired by Fenn’s Chase, I wanted to get people out into the beautiful parks in my area. I wanted it to be in plain view. No digging, endangering anything, no trespassing, etc. But hard enough to find that it was worth the trouble.

    This proved right near impossible; for something the size of a quarter.

    I realized I was “looking for a place to hide something”. I wasn’t thinking at all about what the clues might be–that would have to come after finding the place.

    This, I think, has bearing on finding the Home of Indulgence.

  123. “The Most Atrocious Thing I’ve Ever Done”

    That’s how he described what he “said to himself” leaving the hiding place. Mr. Embellisher…..hmmmm…. that choice of actual or remembered words is haunting me

    …was he thinking “I just doomed thousands of people to a hopeless search. They will never find this. Never. I thought maybe, but, naaah. Never. Bad me. But hey, they get to see wondrous places.” ?

    • “I thought it was the most atrocious thing that I’d ever done. But in the back of my mind I told myself if I’m sorry tomorrow I can go back and get the treasure chest.”

      You could be right Joseph. I personally think it wasn’t about how hard of a place or hopeless to find. More to where it is and why it’s there.
      Yeah, this comment has me puzzle as much as the poem itself. Atrocious seems to be a strong word to use and as well, having the thought of possibly going back to retrieve the TC. Why would he feel sorry for doing something he planned to do if he was going to end it all? A special place to stay for eternity, or till another found him and the TC. perplexing to say the least.

      • My hopeful searcher side says, “I have just put actual TREASURE out in the elements, possibly for a very very long time. It could be really lost. Forever.”

        That is against his collector inclination. Thus, the angst. “Atrocious”.

        Remember, it had to be less “atrocious” when he originally thought he was staying with it.

        • Joseph, I’ve always believed that Forrest misspoke when he used the word “atrocious” so I didn’t give that word much consideration. I thought he probably meant to say “audacious” which means “extremely bold or daring” or “recklessly bold in defiance of convention”. To me, “audacious” seems a better fit in that sentence than “atrocious”.

          • IMO when he said “atrocious” it’s a forecasting term that he plans to up the ante in his final years.

            I don’t see Forrest saying sorry or feeling sorry for any actions he has taken or is going to take in the near or distant future.

  124. Just a note for any new folks wandering by…..

    ….mountain stream beds are a river of rocks. They flow down the mountains far more slowly than the water, but year-to-year you may not recognize the same stretch of stream.

    • Thanks for the lead Joseph,
      Makes sense to me. I believe the hidey space is in a river where the sediments & river rock move very slowly & have covered TC a little. I’m thinking he moved some river rock away, making a 5″ pit if you will, placed TC there & covered it a little & knew nature would do the rest. So technically he did not bury it but mother nature may have. IMO of course.

  125. All,

    Disclaimer: I am wholeheartedly in the NM camp.

    Now let me explain how I believe FF choose and or located his “special place” to lay himself and indulgence, all of course is in my opinion.

    I have gone on 10 separate BOTG searches in NM in two separate spots I believe fit, one of which I’m solidly set on now. Going on these searches has led me to make a couple of conclusions on what an 79-80 year old FF could accomplish.

    What I have concluded is that when FF arrived in NM in 1972 and in his spare time he would have enjoyed going fishing in the NM lakes and fast moving steams and would tend to let wander off the beaten path to explore while heading back to his car and in doing so may have found this special spot near where he liked to fish.

    Over the years leading up to his diagnosis with Cancer FF continued to frequent this special place when returning from fishing to “enjoy a sandwich” and ponder life. When he was ultimately diagnosed with his aliment he then hatched his plan to secret away his treasures in this special spot.

    So therefore I choose NM, because I believe he has frequented this place from 1972 to 2009/10 and may have even left placeholders (items of value) in the special place to see if others took this item and knew of his special place in order to ensure it was secret.

    Note: Reading the chapter in TTOTC called “Flywater” has also helped lead me to this conclusion.


    • Seannm hi guy how you doing? i am getting over a tummy bug which just killed our trip in mid Oct. i have time to get over this and ready for trip. also our dyer has decided it needs replace. stay in touch.
      oh yes you are in right state not sure about the place though LOL

  126. 1000 years. I don’t think it will stay hidden anywhere near that long. The internet has taken over the world just since FF dreamed this whole thing up.

    I’ve thought all along, this would be a lot easier with a shuttle pod.

  127. I just spent all day reading every post in this blog. Some things I agree with some I don’t. . My intuition on it all is in the first verse. Mr Fenn is telling us what we are looking for before we start looking and that is a natural tomb, a place large enough for him and the chest. This spot is protected from the elements to a degree, but not air tight or water proof and perhaps has a hidden entry or an entry that can only be located from a certain angle or direction. It is also my opinion that he may still intend to follow up on taking it with him. It would not surprise me if someday Mr. Fenn goes missing. He has stated he thought of everything and at this point I believe he probably did. I also think with a little imagination and some direction from the frog on page 133 you can get the general layout. I could pursue this farther but it is just pure speculation on my part. Everything stated is IMO.

  128. Well, I was going to offer my ideas about “The Hidey Space”, but I question whether my comments would even be read by anyone. I say that because yesterday I posted two comments in a thread that now does not appear anywhere on the main page of this blog. And so far as I know, no one has since accessed that thread, by “germanguy”; I certainly haven’t because I can’t find it.

    But for that matter, neither can anyone access “The Hidey Sapce” without first accessing some pointer thread that leads to “The Hidey Space” and other hidden threads.

    What does appear on the main page are no fewer than 6 line items all of which pertain to one topic … “Odds n Ends”. One can access “Latest Posts”. But how “Latest Posts” differs from “Most Recent Comments” is a puzzle worthy of someone who finds Fenn’s treasure chest.

    So, I’ll wait to post my ideas on “The Hidey Space” until I can access the thread wherein I posted two comments yesterday, in response to poster “germanguy”.

    Maybe what I need is a poem to solve the clues about how to access … not treasure chests … but threads. 🙂

    I’ll now yell out … anyone out there? If so, please yell back.


    • Ken-
      Sorry to hear about your issues. Nothing here is “hidden”. I suspect you simply have not yet mastered the categories and subcategories on the right side of the blog…All that orange type over there is a list of categories. Click on a category and it opens a list of posts in that category.
      The Hidey Space is under Searcher Discussions..
      All Forrest’s Scrapbooks are listed under Forrest’s Scrapbooks..
      Links to all the news stories are under Most Important Info..then scroll down the list to Media Coverage…click on that and you have a giant list of news stories from radio, TV, magazines and the internet about the chase.
      If your looking for Forrest’s email responses, you’ll also find them under Most Important Info.
      All the discussion pages…like this one are found under Searcher Discussions…
      This indexing system may not be perfect but I haven’t strived for perfection since I was 22. I do strive for accessibility though so check out the categories in orange type at the top and to the right..I think you’ll find every post made here in the past three years listed under one category or another..

      By the way..the place you posted a day or so ago was on Germanguy’s story about looking for the chest. You’ll find his story and many other searcher offered solutions right there under Other Searcher’s Adventures…

      Good luck!!!
      There are over 600 pages for you to read here and on those pages of stories and discussions and reports can be found over 108,000 comments…
      Spend some time clicking on a few categories and you should find what you’re looking for..

    • Well, not having a treasure to search for, I went to dang near every Searcher Discussion thread and did a ctrl>F search for germanguy in each one, and looked for any “Ken” replies. No joy.

      I think “Ken” is a canard Dal created to serve as an excuse to proactively guide new readers. If so, awesome Dal. If not, welcome Ken.

      I will also offer that there is a Search Option near the top on the right. And if you want email sent to notify you when someone comments, or when a new “post” by the webmaster is made, there are check boxes for that below your email/Name stuff.

    • Things move along fairly quickly Ken. The subjects change frequently, and so it is, in the world of blogs….have fun! From another Ken

  129. Your coming in loud and clear, I don’t know how long you have been posting. I had troubles keeping track when I first started and it has to do with where you hit the reply button at. If you use the one at the bottom your post should end up at the bottom but if you use the one that’s inside the conversation it should stay in the conversation. Clear as mud?

  130. A question about searching in Yellowstone National Park . . .

    FF said that the TC is not near a trail. Is hiking around in Yellowstone, off
    of “established” trails permitted and legal, without violating any of the rules
    of Yellowstone National Park? If this is not a good place to ask this, can
    someone please advise me? I already read Yellowstone National Park
    rules, but found no specific prohibition of walking around “off-trail”.

    • Considering that it is a national park I really do not think there is any rules against exploring the park. This is just my opinion though, never can tell what crazy rule some bureaucrat might dream up just to say they did something while in office…. :/

    • Imo….YNP was not a hiker friendly place. To truly get away from all the people there, you almost HAVE to get a back country permit. This is not something I would have done were I to hide a million dollar treasure…..bureaucratic red tape runs deep at YNP. I loved the views, but did not appreciate all the restrictions placed on people inside the park. I don’t know how it was when f spent his summers there, but for me it was an exercise in how to read signs that tell me what I cannot do, or in other words what will get me fined or kicked out of the park.

      • pI289

        I agree there are way to many restrictions in the park, I understand they want to keep nature as is, However i do not pay attention to those signs and walk pats them so i can explore, How are we to know where the edge is if we don’t try?

        However the one sign or caution i do pay attention to is (Bears in this area) ALWAYS carry Bear spray and know your surroundings.

    • I don’t know what the rules are for going off trail, but here’s a link to their webcams to give you an idea of how much snow there is around some areas of the valley floor and what the current weather conditions are like. There’s probably a lot more snow at higher elevations and some of the web cams are covered with snow. Good luck if you go in the winter. Some of the roads are closed there so be sure and check out their web site for road conditions in the park.

  131. My solve includes wading across a stream, but the stream is NOT SAFE to cross in spring or early summer (due to snow melt/high water levels). July – October is FINE, but NOT in winter or spring or early summer.
    Would FF do that to us? It would definitely restrict searchers.
    Perhaps related to this, WWWH… could WWWH also mean go when waters are warm(er), so as to avoid the snowmelt period?
    He said it was not in a dangerous place, but frankly, there are times of the year that just about ANY place in the Rockies can be dangerous. Any thoughts??

    • Dave I like the direction your thoughts are going in. Thinking about the hints ” it is above 5000 ft and the slip of or misstatement of 7000 ft. This does make a lof of sense. Esp when coupled with his comment concerning his age at the time of the hiding. ( 79 or 80 year old man )

    • David,
      I think FF isn’t doing anything to us. I think we are doing things to ourselves that are influenced by FF TC. He is not grabbing your hand and taking to a dangerous place. We are the ones that make the final decision at the end of the day. If you think something is not safe, then do not attempt it. Follow your gut feeling or conscience if you have one, that’s why I am not going back to the RM’s until summer.
      I think WWWH is straight forward without double meaning because that would take up 2 clues there, and there’s not much room left in the meat of the poem for that.
      True, there are dangers all around us every day, no matter where you are, you could be killed waiting for the light to change at an intersection.
      Sometimes it’s best to wait & other times it’ not, I think Fenn knows about this & has been lucky in life.

      • Jake,
        When I speak that way, its only in jest. I know FF didn’t do anything to us…

        I’m no dummy when it comes to safety. My question was all about levels of safety and timing and whether or not the chest could be hidden in a place that is ‘safe’ to reach but only a couple months per year – not safe the rest of it. In this case, its a stream that flows a lot of mountain runoff over an extended period of time.

        An 80 year old man could EASILY cross it in late summer, but many other times could end up dead, miles downstream.

        If I wanted to hide something for a really long time, what best than to use nature to protect it. When most people see (and feel) a FLOODED, cold mountain stream, one would hope they have more common sense than to try to cross it. But this is also a wonderful trout stream, and I can certainly see FF wading in it (fishing) and loving it. (I did).

        One thing just occurred to me… “There’ll be no paddle up your creek”.. Just maybe that is a hint about it being deep enough to float a boat… and the very issue I am asking you all about. (I may have answered my own question). Thx!

        • Having seen some of Fenns toys (planes, cars, even his dog cats and cow), he’s probably been on a motorboat trip a time or two. Hell, I’ll even bet he was called a skipper at one time and we just don’t know about it…yet. All that said, I agree with using the old bean and refrain from crossing swollen streams unless you know what you’re doing and have the right survival equipment. Think with your head and avoid risky situations. Here’s wad i plan to do….wait until the time is just right and then jump a train to the mountains. If I run into one of you guys, I’ll be sure and give you all the help I can in deciding where to hunt for the chest. That’s all I can do unless there’s a star I need to be looking to for guidance.

          • Nope just an Irishman with a flare for the sublime and surreal. If I were Forrest I’d probably be droning on and on about some aberration and bright colored pots or huge railroad tracts haunted by dirty filthy rubber barons. All I want out of Forrest is for him to shoot straight and be kind to those deserving of his mountainous gratitude. I think he does this already by the way.

            He’s worried about everyone safety during the winter and i think that’s pretty nice. He hasn’t thrown anyone to the wolves like some would have us believe. The hills and valleys are his church and he’s invited us to kneel and worship at the same alter he has for so many years. The miles we as searchers are varied, but we all seek the same goal. Just a peace of happiness while we’re here. Sorry, I’ve been waxing poetic all day due to my love for the holliday season experienced by so many.

          • I agree with you there PI289.

            A 79 or 80 year old man would not venture out into the wild in the winter. Esp in the rockies. At 60 I fear a fall because I know my bones have gotten brittle. And this ole bumble don’t bounce as well I once did. So I am of the mind that Forrest’s trail is not a difficult one to travel as long as it is in season. I.E.
            early summer to mid fall. Opps pardon the pun

          • Wow 60? You retired yet? Falling down at that age would six. Do you do a lot of training to stay in shape?

          • Author hit me 5 almost 6 years ago and forced me into retirement. I try to stay active, V.A doc’s want me to do physical therapy. Which I will start after we get my pain issues under control. It does suc to await for the days I feel good enough to go out and run around. My passion is treasure hunting and my current situation does not allow me much time for even playing with my metal detectors.

            All good though as long as I can still try to do and catch up on my todo list I am thankful.
            Thanks for asking.

          • I have arthritis in my hands, feet and hips. Somedays it stops me from doing a lot.
            I worked in factories and now I pay the price. Going out to search for the chest is on my todo list. I am far too hardheaded to allow my condition to hold me down for too long. What has kept me from searching is an exact search area. I have been developing a picture of the area in my mind for years now. Often I do not say much about some of the things I have discovered about the poem itself. My desire to see the rockies and the grand canyon is something I dream of.

            As far as financing a hunt, I have something in mind and will pursue it as my hands allow me to type. yeah I have writing a book in mind. So only time will tell if I can make the cut.

  132. Rob,
    OK Rob, seeing we are on the same page, my solve starts at WWWH (where OJO pours into Firehole) Take it in the canyon down is Firehole Canyon, not far, but too far to walk, seems to be straight forward except it connects with the Preface of TFTW which is where you put in below the home of Brown where Firehole River meets the Gibbon & Madison, you know “that day never came for me” From there it’s no place for the meek means to me there are no rivers small enough or creaks large enough that stay wet all year for Joseph Meek to trap any Beavers. (Area between Gibbon river down stream on the Madison) The end is ever drawing nigh, tells me you are close to where it is. There ll be no paddle up your creek tells me no boats, or floatable devices on this creek, which I think is the Firehole River. Heavy loads & water high is Old Faithful sending you back up the way you came because the next line is you FOUND the blaze where TC is. But I have to say I did scour the Firehole, even with a metal detector which is illegal there & have allot of vids on Youtube that are private for this matter. Only found a old coke can & a mony clip? Although metal detector went off in some areas near the bank but could not get deep enough. Maybe I am thinking it’s around Fairy Falls. Either way it seems to lead you back to the beginning. You know the T.S. Elliot quote, plus also said he is talking in circles.
    All my opinion.
    I did remove the Coke can & clip from the premises.

    • I’m missing something. Not following you at all. Crap on a cracker this is confusing. How did you start at the bridge or the line?

      • Well, I spelled it out for you literally. I don’t have many people following me, & that’s a good thing IMO. I just eat the crap & throw the cracker away, there’s no fun in eating the cracker. I didn’t start at the bridge, just in close proximity to it. The line is as winding as the rivers, creeks & streams. You have to start somewhere don’t you.
        Tell me about your solve.
        So we all see we are both missing something.

        • honestly, one more recent solve I have puts me down near salida colorado. just east and north of the town not far from a radio station antennae.

          • Very nice p1289–thanks for the response, earlier. I think I get cha. And if we ever do meet, I’d love to hear how many solves you ended with. God Bless. Over and out.

          • David k
            My end solves are many and varied. Probably somewhere between 500-1000 gps points on a map. I’ve kinda turned into a google earth nerd. Someone looking over my shoulder probably couldn’t make heads or tails out of what I’ve done or why i’ve done it. I’d say most all my endpoints terminate within a 8-10 mile radius of a central point. I know, I know…that’s a huge tracked of land. It’s probably more like a 16×12 mile rectangle with various points of interest grouped tightly inside. Still…lots to search and I could easily spend a lifetime there and come up empty handed. But then that’s what we all kinda signed up for, right? We each have a 1 in a gazillion chance at finding this thing and know the odds are stacked completely against us…however that’s where the Thrill part comes in. IF i ever do take on a local partner to expedite the process, he/she will have a field day trying to decipher my homework. Even with me explaining it there would likely be some crazy glances at my explanations.